# What's The Best Car For SQ?



## BigMike66 (Oct 8, 2009)

Reading another post about what makes a great SQ system (tuning, install, hardware) brought up this question:

what is the best vehicle, or vehicle type, to make the going easier for the base of a SQ system?

The posts I've been reading suggest the struggle to achieve SQ by the above-mentioned 3 parameters, but I've read nothing as to what part the vehicle itself plays into the equation.

Back in '85 I had a '81 Z28 that had a basic system. I figured to try a competition for grins. Something small and local in Monroeville, PA.
A judge asked if if I wanted to sell the car. She said the reason was the trunk.

Is it crazy to think of selling my new '09 Corolla to build a better SQ vehicle?!!!!!

Mike


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Yes it's crazy. A car is a car, it's made to get you around. You will have struggles for good sound in any car, the amazing SQ setups aren't usually in daily drivers, too many things need to changed in a car and it makes it impractical for a daily driver. Compromises need to be made, a car just isn't a good platform for a good stereo.


----------



## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

not a truck

something with a very short or no console

something with a short dash overhang

something with open enough kick panels to allow for good aiming

something with as many soft non-reflective surfaces as possible (i.e. no leather seats, or vinyl headliners...obviously things like glass are unavoidable)

something with a charging system that doesn't suck

that is all I can think of off the top of my head, let us know what you find


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

A car that is intimately known by someone local that is into installing or competing in SQ. Pick the car than pick their brain!


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

It's absurd to pick a car based on it's "SQ" potential. Just absurd!


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

gijoe said:


> It's absurd to pick a car based on it's "SQ" potential. Just absurd!


That would kind of depend on the purpose of the vehicle, don't you think? Even if it is to be a daily driver, the same decisions are made all the time on the basis of performance; why not for his stereo if he chooses? 

Therein lies the difference between an investment and a hobby; and people are always looking for different ways to spend. If he can afford to do it, I say go for it.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

danssoslow said:


> That would kind of depend on the purpose of the vehicle, don't you think? Even if it is to be a daily driver, the same decisions are made all the time on the basis of performance; why not for his stereo if he chooses?
> 
> Therein lies the difference between an investment and a hobby; and people are always looking for different ways to spend. If he can afford to do it, I say go for it.


Because it's a car, that's why. When you buy a car things like, performance, gas mileage, reliability and cost should be a lot higher on the list than it's stereo potential. Regardless of the car you're going to have to put a lot of work into it to get it to sound good, you're better off buying a car that you're happy with then building a system around the car.


----------



## sqoverspl (Aug 17, 2009)

With the money you lose by getting a new car you could have a beautiful system.


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

gijoe said:


> *you're better off buying a car that you're happy with* then building a system around the car.


I believe that is what he's trying to accomplish. Many choices, alot of work. If he purchases another vehicle with the preconceived notion that he has a leg up on building himself a better system, I do believe he would be happier than settling for something else. It's all subjective.

Case and point, you said performance should be a more important criteria for choosing an automobile. I have to believe that there are plenty of people that would put performance on the very bottom of their list; as long as it gets them from point "A" to point "B". It's all subjective.

I play pool with a $35 Dufferin sneaky pete. I personally cannot justify spending $300 and up on a mass produced cue with the newest laminated this and that; but I'd never consider it absurd for someone else to buy such things. And I'll be damned if it doesn't make those people buying those cues better after their purchase. Perception is everything. It's all subjective.


----------



## Sideways17 (Apr 10, 2009)

I once heard a VW beetle (newer version) and it sounded amazing with entry level setup in stock locations. The acoustics in the car are great because its shaped like a bubble. No square edges. Now....would I be caught dead driving a beetle for the sake of an advantage in acoustic environment to build in? No...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

gijoe said:


> Because it's a car, that's why. When you buy a car things like, performance, gas mileage, reliability and cost should be a lot higher on the list than it's stereo potential. Regardless of the car you're going to have to put a lot of work into it to get it to sound good, you're better off buying a car that you're happy with then building a system around the car.


Go shopping with a woman


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Performance is about as silly as car audio potential if you are not into performance stuff.



gijoe said:


> Because it's a car, that's why. When you buy a car things like, performance, gas mileage, reliability and cost should be a lot higher on the list than it's stereo potential. Regardless of the car you're going to have to put a lot of work into it to get it to sound good, you're better off buying a car that you're happy with then building a system around the car.


----------



## boltupright (Feb 14, 2007)

"What's The Best Car For SQ?" is a valid question,..especially in this forum. I think it's a great question for someone looking to buy a car who's interested in enjoying a great sound system..and it's only natural to want to know what type of cars might help to achieve that goal. A person considers all sorts of ideas when looking for a car. The final purchase decision will also be influenced by other preferences, but also ideas like cars with less road noise, cloth vs leather seats, shape and type of dash, and perhaps other people's experiences with working with their car, etc., could help him with making his decision.


----------



## mitja155 (Aug 31, 2008)

something like this?


----------



## huckorris (Sep 2, 2009)

A limousine. 


Or the radio-less but engine-full Ferrari Enzo. That's some quality sound.


----------



## Sideways17 (Apr 10, 2009)

mitja155 said:


> something like this?


sadly...yes. UGLY!!! The one I heard was yellow...Im not judging.


----------



## mennitti (Aug 10, 2009)

boltupright said:


> "What's The Best Car For SQ?" is a valid question,..especially in this forum.


x2
Maybe some of you are on the wrong website.

About 3 years ago a friend went out and ordered a brand new Impala. It was special ordered without a center console specifically for the purpose of SQ competition. Funny thing: Ron won Finals the next year.


----------



## BigMike66 (Oct 8, 2009)

gijoe said:


> It's absurd to pick a car based on it's "SQ" potential. Just absurd!


Possibly true. But IMO it's also absurd that someone would put
100,000 dollars into a system for a vehicle.

Could some of that money have been saved if it had based on a better platform from the gitgo?

I'm not suggesting that I will do this. The OP was based on previous posts about what aspect of building a SQ system (install, tuning, hardware) is the most important. Why not consider the vehicle?

I'm picking your knowledge, and in the process there are some great replies.
Some are good for a laugh, too.

Mike


----------



## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

gijoe said:


> It's absurd to pick a car based on it's "SQ" potential. Just absurd!


LOL... He wouldn't be the first.


----------



## kapone (Sep 22, 2009)

I have a BMW 740i......does that count??:blush::blush:


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

id look at all the winners of sq competitions in the last 10 years and see if there is any similarity in the cars.


----------



## savagebee (Sep 12, 2006)

It seems like the w body impalas are pretty popular with some serious competitors.

My wife just got an 09 impala, and it definately has some potential.


----------



## jmil1974 (Dec 24, 2007)

diamondjoequimby said:


> not a truck
> 
> something with a very short or no console
> 
> ...


This is the best single answer so far. Also important was someone mentioned to get a car with the least amount of road noise possible. Between these two, that will get you to a really good place. I actually think a solid, quiet car is the MOST important thing. It will allow you to use less power to get the sound you want plus you won't have to turn it up so loud to hear all the details. 

I'll add this:
Find cars that have room for 7" or even 8" mids in the front, there's a Volvo or two that will do 8s in factory locations. They also ride pretty quiet and have good charging systems. Combine that with good tweeter placement, and if SQ is a MAJOR factor, that may be your best route. 

Another option is to go very reasonable on price and not hit the above factors too hard, which leaves you more room for amps, drivers, and deadening. It also won't hurt you so much if you have to cut and glass to get the sound you want. 

Good front driver aiming and placement is a key factor too. If the factory front drivers are well placed and aimed, it makes a monster of a head start for you.
Good luck and let us know what you decide!


----------



## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

60ndown said:


> id look at all the winners of sq competitions in the last 10 years and see if there is any similarity in the cars.


DING DING DING DING!!!

Here is a short list

Honda Civic
Honda Accord
Acura Integra
BMW E36/E46
VW Golf/Jetta/GTI after 94


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Well, based on the number of hours dedicated SQ guys spend modifing and tuning...
IMO, I think the BEST CAR FOR SQ is one that has already been built for SQ. Many of the guys that compete spend an endless amount of time over several years building a SQ car. Then years later they end up selling it for cheap. IMO, that is the BEST car for SQ as I know I will never put that much time and effort into an install. There were many I would have liked to have bought over the years.

So, if you don't plan to "go all out" then keep what you have and work with it.

Right now If I had cash or clout.....
I don't know how good the SQ are in these cars but the new *Ford Taurus SHO* and the *Buick LaCrosse* would be in my driveway as we speak...then I would find someone that could help me make them sound good.


----------



## tmieczkowski (Jan 5, 2009)

i had a 93 mercury grand marquis, flat small dash, no center console, relatively smooth underside of dash, tons of velor and carpet(for the reflections), huge kickpanels, and enough room in the trunk to hide a pair of 15" subs under the rear deck and not miss the room. damn, i miss that car.
as for the cars currently competing...i too have an e46 bmw, and it sucks in comparison to my merc (from a sound stand point)


my .02


----------



## Serious Sam (Nov 30, 2008)

I dont think this is a silly question at all. Not even in the least. 

i agree 100% with the idea of looking at what has worked and won in the past. Not only is it a proven vehicle, but there tends to be more knowledge about those vehicles as a result of their reputation.

I think the class of competition might have some bearing. 
I think when you are looking into Stock classes, you might actually take the type of car into account even more - as you are limited to the speaker locations, and the amount of modding that one can do. 
I heard a late model mustang in a stock class that sounded great. You can add tweeters, but the stock speaker locations are as far forward and up high in the door as they can be in the new mustangs. I think this aided in that cars ability to sound better than many other cars.

If you plan to really mod the car, then I can see a little more personal taste coming into consideration. Something that you like inherently like and WANT to work on and CAN work on (not too complicated). Even with my knowledge of taking apart cars and rebuilding for racing, would I want to even try to execute what Matt Roberts did for Randy's late model 535i. To incorporate onboard OEM computer thats integral to the overall systems of the car, and make aftermarket audio dance with it in such a way to sound good - That's just not MY idea of a hobby.

I like the way you think. To get the best sounding system, you have to consider everything. Its a complete package. I think most people dont really consider the car, cause it costs too much to swap a car in order to build a potentially better system. 

Someone said above (and I agree with him too), that for the money someone loses by driving a car off a lot, they could put together a great system. All things to consider.

Last thing that comes to mind. If you do choose a different car, choose one that has a good chance of putting EVERY (including bass) speaker in front of you.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

I still think it's silly haha. If you were going to do serious competitions on a very high level, then yes it makes sense, but for a car to be driven everyday and still be practical I think you'll have to put in just as much work on just about anything.

Maybe it's just my view on car audio. I love it, it's a fun hobby, but to me it's really not worth the amount of time some people put into it. Like most of you, I started out super excited and planned and completed a few pretty big projects. Then I got to a point where 6 hours of work on something that will only yield a negligible improvement seemed silly. I can spend hours and hours trying to get my car to sound better, or I can turn on my 30 year old speakers in the basement and have better sound instantly. For me, it's just such a difficult battle to win in a car that it's not worth it.


----------



## BigMike66 (Oct 8, 2009)

gijoe said:


> but for a car to be driven everyday and still be practical I think you'll have to put in just as much work on just about anything.


The word "practical" is interesting be used in this hobby (or is it an obsession?).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'd ever swap my car just to put a stereo in.
Unless, of course, I had money to burn. But that's another post.

The idea behind my question is to get a better understanding of all the factors that influence a SQ install. No one talks about the vehicle. In the short time that I've been browsing, it's my observation that the number of posts per subject area seem to number (in quantity) as follows:

hardware
install
tuning

Food for thought, that's all.

Mike


----------



## boy.kroy (Nov 19, 2008)

diamondjoequimby said:


> not a truck
> 
> something with a very short or no console
> 
> ...


Why not a truck, it should be easy to get good bass and you only really need front speakers(no rear fill)? I was under the impression that a extended cab pickup would be the best choice!


----------



## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

I understand where the OP is coming from. I am in the market for a new car in the next couple of months after getting my 300zx TT (can hold 10's in the door and is faster than a C6 vette if anyone wants to buy!!  ) sold to make room for a more family friendly car, and the sound plays a role to me. I also want sporty performance. I also want good looks. I also want something nice and more "mature". I also want low-ish miles and under 20k. I also want to try and stay in the Nissan/Infinity family (my father is an engineer that and it is all I have ever owned outside of a 93 Camaro that I HATED!!)

I already have speakers I would like to use too! Morel SW9's, CDM54's, and Piccolo tweets. So the cars I am down to are: Infiniti G35, Infiniti FX35 & 45, and to POSSIBLY break ranks...BMW 325i (E90). Both Infiniti's can fit the 9's in the door and the 54's flush in the factory kick. The Piccolos could go in the dash or kick as well. I can go flush with the midrange since it is a dome. The 325i would go with SW9's under the seat, some cone midrange in the factory door location (since I need it to play lower than 500hz because my midbass is now under me), and Piccolo's either in the kicks flush, in the factory door location, or in the a-pillar.

I'm just saying, while my priority is not centered around car audio, having an idea before hand can be very helpful. Personally, the look and the feel of the car is most important, then stereo (to complete the driving experience), then gas mileage (as long as it's over 17, my truck only gets 13 right now so it is easy to "upgrade").


----------



## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

boy.kroy said:


> Why not a truck, it should be easy to get good bass and you only really need front speakers(no rear fill)? I was under the impression that a extended cab pickup would be the best choice!


ex cab truck is better than reg cab but still has some of the same issues. A reg cab you run out of places quickly to put a sub where you cannot localize it.


----------



## ken325i (Oct 18, 2009)

bump


----------



## savagebee (Sep 12, 2006)

ken325i said:


> bump


find another way to fluff the post count


----------



## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

Not cheap but very easy to get equal PLD 

http://www.qv500.com/McLaren F1 P1 4.jpg


----------



## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

diamondjoequimby said:


> not a truck
> Why ? With a crew cab F250 like mine I have a ton of room to work with to get the drivers much more equal and further away than any car I can think of.
> something with a very short or no console
> Again...chalk one up for the truck
> ...


My thoughts in red. I'm interested to hear whya truck is so bad ?


----------



## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> My thoughts in red. I'm interested to hear whya truck is so bad ?


again, especially in a reg cab, it is really difficult to put a sub somewhere that you cannot localize. That will kill the depth of the stage and destroy the ol' "bass up front" which most people go for.

Not to mention, most trucks are essentially boxes so there can be a lot of standing wave / harmonic reflection issues.

I am not saying you can't make a truck sound good just that if you are buying a vehicle specifically for SQ (which is what the OP asked for) you might as well start with an easier platform on which to work.

just re read... where are you putting subs in your truck? There is NO room behind the seat and most of the 250s I have seen have the under rear seat storage thing.


----------



## ProperYota (Oct 20, 2009)

From my experience (though limited), some of the nicest DIY SQ systems I've heard have been in spacious coupes and saloons. Such cars as Chevy Lumina/Impala, G8s, 90s S & C-class Mercs, and new-ish Honda Accords. I agree with Sideways17, rounded edges seem to produce better results, generally speaking.

Oh, actual introduction post coming up in a couple minutes, sorry to interject without a hello.


----------



## fury (Dec 12, 2007)

Maclaren F1?
Least then you have a chance of getting *stereo *correct.


----------



## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Some of the Buicks and Caddy's are sub 70db at 70mph. I would look to a car that is inherently quiet inside. The quieter the car is, the lower you can keep the volume and still appreciate music's dynamics. 

I'd start with one of these, and then sound deaden it some more...



BTW, to the guys saying this is a stupid question, you are obviously on the wrong forum. Environment has as much to do with SQ as the speakers/amps/subs/processing you do. I'd never bother trying for an SQ setup in a jeep wrangler... it's just pointless.


----------



## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Which leads us into a quote from the Founder of DIYMA...

A speaker is only as good as the room you put it in. - npdang


----------



## orangelss (Dec 20, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> DING DING DING DING!!!
> 
> Here is a short list
> 
> ...


^^^ all solid car^^^
If your looking for something in-expensive. Find a Mid 90's Honda Accord. They have a really nice factory seating arrangment, placed low and back. Large kick panels and good trunck space. Console is easily modded to not interfer with sound paths. Solid construction with minamal sound deadning needed. Best of all. They can be picked up for around $2000.


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

I think I agree with the idea of many of the older cars that have been posted. Many current models have obstacles that might create a challenge. Still, if one had the means to buy what they wanted within say $35K or so...what would one do? Like I stated, I am crazy about the Buick LaCrosse and the Ford Taurus...who would have thought? I mean I would REALLY like to have the Taurus but if I wanted great sound is this the "best" choice? Probably not but that would not be my sole focus in spending money.

I think one has to prioritize and decide what is important. For me it would be car first before system. However, if I went out and bought one of these, I would be stuck with trying to get past the obstacles...and as I look at them...I can see a couple of challenges right off the bat.

1993 Cadillac Eldorado - Featured Custom Cars - Car Audio & Electronics Magazine

















In your case, *No it is not crazy* if this is your time to build the ultimate SQ vehicle that you always wanted and are willing to find the "right" vehicle to do so then, Put system first before car and go from there....even still....while one vehicle might be better than another there are still going to be challenges that pertain to that particular vehicle.

Choose wisely.  You just missed out on the chance to buy a World Class classic SQ Cadillac for $10K!
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...p-free-cadillac-eldorado-competition-car.html
http://www.caraudiomag.com/v_features/0111cae_1993_cadillac_eldorado/index.html


----------



## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

The interiors of the new Buicks and the new CTS REALLY surprised me the first time I saw them. I like them a lot, which was quite surprising considering the trash GM has been putting out for the last 3 decades. I'd like to sit in a decked out new Taurus like they show on the SHO commercial, but it looks good too.

I didn't even look to see how they would be for SQ. I just couldn't get past how much nicer they are than I thought they'd be.


----------



## troytag (Aug 1, 2009)

valid question..imo
someone allready posted,look at what cars have done well at comps..
id say its a tough one to answer without alot of homework..
but if your tryn to cover all your bases i think your doing the right thing...
ask the question..keep the good answers and disregard the naaay sayers...


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

LOL...I thought I would be the only one to say McLaren F1...

But yeah, center seating position would be where I would start.


----------



## Jack Watts (Sep 26, 2007)

I just posted this in another thread--but a friend of my was looking at 2001-2005 P71's/Crown Vic police/municipal vehicles.

If you can get past the 'mall security guard who can't beat the pysch screen' deal, it's hard to imagine a better car: 3.55 rear end (loow RPM's on the hwy), V-8, high HP alternator, pre-wired to the rear, generally quiet already, TONS of kick panel space (you could put 10's in there if you really wanted to), no dash overhang to speak of, no center console, world's largest trunk.

Besides that, there's a lot to like about that car if you can get past the look--and trust me, I never thought I'd find myself saying that about a Crown Vic; I don't have a wanabe Cop fantasy, and I'm under the age of 80. Pays to keep an open mind, sometimes...


----------



## BigMike66 (Oct 8, 2009)

Jack Watts said:


> I just posted this in another thread--but a friend of my was looking at 2001-2005 P71's/Crown Vic police/municipal vehicles.


I guess I should have kept either my '76 Olds 98 or my '84 Buick Park Ave as they both were very similiar to the Crown.

Man, that trunk on that 98 was large enough to haul a rear axle of the same car!


----------



## tmieczkowski (Jan 5, 2009)

Jack Watts said:


> I just posted this in another thread--but a friend of my was looking at 2001-2005 P71's/Crown Vic police/municipal vehicles.
> 
> If you can get past the 'mall security guard who can't beat the pysch screen' deal, it's hard to imagine a better car: 3.55 rear end (loow RPM's on the hwy), V-8, high HP alternator, pre-wired to the rear, generally quiet already, TONS of kick panel space (you could put 10's in there if you really wanted to), no dash overhang to speak of, no center console, world's largest trunk.
> 
> Besides that, there's a lot to like about that car if you can get past the look--and trust me, I never thought I'd find myself saying that about a Crown Vic; I don't have a wanabe Cop fantasy, and I'm under the age of 80. Pays to keep an open mind, sometimes...


My Grand Marquis was a very similar car. Lincoln Town Car is another one. the Ford Panther platform is awesome for all of those reasons. Wow, I had a pair of 15's under the rear deck, on top of the tank, and still had a bigger trunk than what my E46 did completely empty.


----------



## flightz71 (May 21, 2009)

Mic10is said:


> DING DING DING DING!!!
> 
> Here is a short list
> 
> ...


Hmm really?

I have a e46 M3 coupe and I dunno... to achieve great sound without loads of custom work is pretty hard imo.

1. The factory location for tweeter/mid (3-way factory system) is only large enough to house a single 1" tweeter... so almost everyone goes to a 2-way system loosing some of the great imagine of the original system.

2. The doors need to be cut and custom baffles need to be built to ge thte midbass mounted properly (factory midbass is in the door panal, angled slightly upwards. If you do the cut the doors method (almost anyone who wants good sound from their e46 does this)... if you use a deep speaker like myself... focal K2P... the magnet is so big there is no room to angle up anymore... loosing additional image. In fact... with it fire straight... the magnet actually comes so close to the window track I can feel the magnetic forces start to attract when the speaker is fully recessed in (feel some pull on the speakers). Off topic but this wouldn't eff up the sound of the speaker right?

3. The door is LONG, empty and hollow as fuk. The inner door skin is completely carved to bare bones to save weight I'm guessing. A lotta people I heard fill them holes with a screen of chicken wire, then dynamat over it to properly deaden it. I just dynamatted around the speaker, inside of the outer door skin, and part of the inner skin. I think this only made a slightly difference in SQ.

4. Not SQ related... but finding a place to put amps cleanly without building expensive custom racks/plexiglass/work is somewhat of a effin hassle. Worse for M3 owners due to no spare tire well (spare tire was removed to fit the large quad exhaust muffler). There is no room under the seats either.

5. Also not SQ related... a custom faceplate needs to be made to fit the headunit unlike japanese cars with 2x din... and moreover... there is a A/C tunnel that runs behind the 2nd DIN which usually house shallow A/C controls meaning you need to cut the vent, sealed it up properly, and modify the arm mechanism that controls the lower a/c vents.

Yah this car was somewhat of a b1tch to work on compared to my 99 Toyota 4Runner.

But then again... you mentioned winners of SQ competitions... so I guess they probably had MASS amounts of custom work done to the car... lol


----------



## dwhite832003 (Jan 19, 2013)

Nothing like digging up an ancient thread. I just wanted to add that I picked up 03 pontiac grand prix on the cheap for a work vehicle. I put a couple hundred into it and it sounds amazing. Better than my ram 1500 & I've got thousands into that not to mention all the man hours on the install. The pontiac has 5.25 midranges that are angled at you. Withe the tweeters in the sail. 80prs & a set of 100 pioneer comps & I was blown away.


----------

