# Wife wants her trunk back....Infinite Baffle?



## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

This is what I have to work with. 










Right now I've got a single 12 down on the floor in a 1.2 cubic foot enclosure, but she wants her trunk space. She's given me free reign up on the shelf though. So I'm thinkin a pair of the notorious Pyle 15s with the cones facing the trunk at somewhat of a downward angle. 

My biggest problem is the fact that while I enjoy clean sound, I do occasionally have a basshead moment and give my Lil 12 a helluva workout. I'm concerned that IB won't give me the output I so desire at those times.

Help?

Btw, car is a 2007 Crown Vic Police Interceptor, and I have a 500 watt mono amp to push the subs.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Maybe for spl at 50Hz, otherwise the 15s will eat a typical 12 no problem. They tend to have a lot more output at 35Hz and under than a box 12....which tends to not have much if its tuned to get 'loud'. I run an alpine m500 on them it seems to match up really well. You might want a remote for the amp or other control, I seem to have a lot of spread between basshead and normal SQ (something near normal plus a little extra bottom). Or they just go that much louder than sq I'm not sure. Maybe the sub amp just gains less because I have to max out the level with max gain on the amp to get them going, but its way too much bass for normal listening.


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

Which model subs do you have?


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Could you just downgrade to a half cube box and live with 10 or 8 inch subwoofer? Or maybe try this one:

Alpine SBR-S83V (SBRS83v) Ported 8" Loaded Enclosure (about 0.6 cubes total).

Another thing I wonder.. would it be possible to have a false floor with some kind of flat subwoofer box underneath it?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

IB will have the same output as sealed but with much less power required so if a single 15 is ok for you sealed it will be fine IB. The Pyle subs get great reviews. The AE IB15s will truly give you the best of all worlds, sq, output, and 250w will get insanely loud. The JL W6/7 subs sound absolutely amazing IB. However, you might want to give your current 12 a shot.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Not to derail this thread, but which model of Pyle subwoofer are we referring to please?


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## Eggroll (Mar 2, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> IB will have the same output as sealed but with much less power required so if a single 15 is ok for you sealed it will be fine IB. The Pyle subs get great reviews. The AE IB15s will truly give you the best of all worlds, sq, output, and 250w will get insanely loud. The JL W6/7 subs sound absolutely amazing IB. However, you might want to give your current 12 a shot.


Sorry to derail as well but what does AE stand for? Would like to read up on them!

Good luck op on your IB search!


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## crispin (May 23, 2011)

I am working on my first IB setup.

It is with 2 - 10's as that is all I have room for.

I will have it finished this Tuesday or so.

I am doing it for the same reason as the OP.


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## tophatjimmy (Dec 16, 2005)

Eggroll said:


> Sorry to derail as well but what does AE stand for? Would like to read up on them!
> 
> Good luck op on your IB search!
> 
> ...



Acoustic Elegance 
AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Not to derail this thread, but which model of Pyle subwoofer are we referring to please?


Pyle - PLWB155 - 15" 1000 Watt 4 Ohm Subwoofer

I bought these off amazon for <$50 each and free shipping, at the time some 2+yr ago. I have a install thread on them here someplace but the photos were imagecave-killed. They are into the back seat, fairly standard install.

I chose those because the next 15 I could find with the IB specs I wanted were the AE and far higher cost. I wanted to run a pair of 15 since that would fill the seat and I tend to think multiple subs help nodes, but _pair of 15s_ was kind of overkill for my needs so I took the risk and tried a cheaper sub. It also has a heavy paper cone that I prefer for IB, at least in cheaper subs I do.

You can also look at the Dayton IB and other subs and the Fi IB subs. I like Fs20 and qts .7 or close to it, while others like a lower qts. I find the lower ones I have to EQ up the bottom. It also depends on the Vas and your trunk size; if you get to maybe less than 2X vas you need to check how much low end you are losing. My pyles are at 1.5X vas (vas is 5.1cf per sub) and lose 1dB at 20Hz, I can deal with that. So with a smaller trunk a lower qts may work better. Watch out for home theater IB subs with giant Vas they will lose too much low end in a trunk, its really best to model your prospective choices before you buy....make sure it will have a response you want. Then again you can EQ any of them, so you can use about any HD sub you want if you plan on that. Subs with shorting rings and big xmax will be better if you beat them hard. Subs like this pyle for example you should check xmax closely at high output so you don't damage them. At 500rms they seem close but not out of control. You can run a SS filter to help them handle more power but I don't, not wanting to lose response down there and don't have any issues with it.

The way I see it you get what you pay for, an AE or the others are a better made sub that have more xmax. If you like it loud or using one sub they would be ones to look at. A cheaper sub will tend to be clean at lower xmax and that is what I count on, they hardly move at all with normal SQ listening. Even somewhat loud they are maybe .25" xmax, and I just don't care that much about quality sound louder than that lol. They tend to get louder than my mid/highs after that which are on a 4x125 kappa infinity amp. The subs and highs go plenty loud for me, but I need extra sub output to get lower not louder.


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

How about a pair of these...

Pyle - PLWB125 - 12" 800 Watt 4 Ohm Subwoofer

Think they'll play with any authority?


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Pyle PL1590BL 15" Blue Label DVC Subwoofer 292-139

Aww snap, them subs is on fire!! 

These look pretty similar besides being dvc and they're cheaper. I was looking at them earlier for a possible HT IB build.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

SHOToonz said:


> How about a pair of these...
> 
> Pyle - PLWB125 - 12" 800 Watt 4 Ohm Subwoofer
> 
> Think they'll play with any authority?


They are 39.11 each w/free ship on amazon, $50 fr/shp for the 15s I have. The 12s should work as well except they have a Fs 30 instead of 20, so they will not dig as low as easily...and less cone area. I don't know about the PL not read of anyone using them, though the specs are similar, the magnet looks smaller but lists near twice as big, has poly cone. I measured 1 1/8" of excursion on the 15s I bought on a 170rms amp then thermalled the amp lol. That was unmounted I never see them do that much in the baffle. I don't know how long they would last standing on them that hard often if you did. All I can say is mine work really well for $94 total, they are so big I don't hammer them much. If I crank them the roof vibrates and I have a hard time hearing the highs. I used to have a 4x75 on four doors and it would wash them out no problem. I got the 4x125 amp to help keep up with the subs on those days I had to lose some aggression lol. But it makes my ears feel funny after a bit anyway or I'm getting too old for that lol. I'd bet the actual xmax is no 1" it just has over travel. 

The funny part is I can hammer them on 500rms if I put a bass CD in that has that extra gain in the bass (or I need a line driver because I can max the 5v HU level and have max gain on the alpine amp now no problem, its way too much for SQ but not the full output on most sources). And they are loud then. They only say '1,000 watts' so lets say that is peak, and given IB you run half ratings so that would be 500 and then 250rms each for IB right....and here they are working fine on 500rms for the pair it go figure. My 15s were down to $40 each and free ship before this summer.


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## seismicboom (Jan 25, 2011)

Not sure if you though t of this or someone mentioned but . Redesign the box to fit all the way up against the seats in a slim design sub toward the cabin.


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

I did consider a box up on the shelf, but I think it'd be easier going IB.

Shoestring, where ya at in mid-michigan? I might just have to take a short road trip and check out your.setup in person.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Everyone who visits Sq gets raped. Just keep that in mind.


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

SHOToonz said:


> I did consider a box up on the shelf, but I think it'd be easier going IB.
> 
> Shoestring, where ya at in mid-michigan? I might just have to take a short road trip and check out your.setup in person.


I'm tuned in for sure. I just got a '05 Crown Vic LX Sport and still trying to decide on the substage. 15's IB seem like they would be a challenge since there isnt too much height on the package tray. I could see an angled baffle/manifold working as long as the trunk lid torsion bars don't get in the way.

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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

Spyke said:


> Everyone who visits Sq gets raped. Just keep that in mind.


Eh, no big deal. It's a typical Michigan welcoming ritual. You mean people from other states don't rape their guests? Where's the fun in that?


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

SHOToonz said:


> Eh, no big deal. It's a typical Michigan welcoming ritual. You mean people from other states don't rape their guests? Where's the fun in that?


Lol, not had time for anything this summer and still not caught up. And these short days are not going to help. I'm closer to GR it would be around 1.5 hr, I was working down there last year. Heard the grapes got the hammer this spring just like the orchards did up here.

The advantage of IB is to go big, like pair of 15s you would never otherwise get in your car. You use that to make up for lack of excursion of the cheap subs you (I, lol) chose, or to just get more output much like going ported instead of sealed. Bigger usually gets lower on top of that. 

I built a big baffle in my car that leaned out at the top so I could wedge quad 12s into my back seat. It was more complex to build than a box by far, but took less material. The extra time was mostly mocking it up with cardboard so it fit the car properly. You don't have to be exact what works really well is to get a roll of truck topper foam for a few bucks, it can be stacked if needed and comes right off when you remove your baffle if you ever need to....compresses nicely to seal well. If you do go high power sub(s) then you should beef things up accordingly, but I rather have larger/more subs and use lesser subs and with 15s I just don't need to get fancy as output is significant imo.

You might make a box with a slanted side to fit the 15s, leave the other side open or just a frame around the edge to attach to the seatback area. I do most of it with 3/4 ply because it holds screws so well, its not as heavy, very easy to work with. The quad 12s had to go because the subs were so heavy they made the car drive differently, the baffle was fairly light. Well and they tuned spl, I did not like that. I just double up the ply where I have a span, in this car only the center 6" are double the rest is a few inches from the metal of the car and the opening is structural all the way around. Also allowed me to place the baffle in there in two pieces since one would not fit as tight.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

SHOToonz said:


> Eh, no big deal. It's a typical Michigan welcoming ritual. You mean people from other states don't rape their guests? Where's the fun in that?


I thought that was normal too but I live in Ca.


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## seismicboom (Jan 25, 2011)

Decided on what you going to do?


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

I'll have it figured out once I crawl back into the trunk and take some measurements of the space available. Firing 15s into the seat definitely ain't gonna happen, as there's at most only a foot of seat back exposed. As for package shelf mounting, the only possible flaw is gonna.be the trunk lid spring rods like someone else mentioned.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Will one Idmax12 work IB in a 2012 Mustang? I'm pretty sure the trunk is the same dimension-wise as a 2005+. Is there such thing as too much space in the trunk? I'm thinking I may be happy with one IB since it will be about 3 feet from my head as opposed to behind 3/4" of MDF and my amps that are now mounted where the IB baffle would go.


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

So I took some measurements. The exposed portion of the seat backs is 13" high. The package shelf is 20", but trunk hinges and spring rods hinder installation there. Is there such a thing as an inexpensive 12" sub that'd run good IB?


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

SHOToonz said:


> So I took some measurements. The exposed portion of the seat backs is 13" high. The package shelf is 20", but trunk hinges and spring rods hinder installation there. Is there such a thing as an inexpensive 12" sub that'd run good IB?


I'm right there with you in my Crown Vic. I thought about doing 2x15 or even 2x18's in a wedge shaped IB manifold sealed up against the back seats. I've also thought about 4x10" or 3x12" across the seat back. I'm kicking myself for not getting the Polk shallow 15's (MM1540) that Crutchfield was selling for nearly $200 less than normal price. Qts of .5, FS of 27, xmax in the 24mm range, and a mounting depth of only 4.5" or so...its a great candidate for the IB manifold idea in our vehicles.

As far as a single 12" is concerned there are so many options you just gotta pick one and see how you like it. What's your price range and how much power do you have on tap?

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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm plannin on 2 or more 12s, as I enjoy the occasional burst of SPL. I've got 500 watts at my disposal, and I haven't quite figured out a budget yet.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

A guy did 3 pyramid 12s and said the magnet was not glued on good he had to glue it, though I've used pyramids and not had an issue with build....they are cheap and designed that way but they were complete. I would guess one of the pyle 12s like my 15s would work but nobody has run them yet and told. The Fs is 30 instead of 20, so they are not going to dig as deep as the 15s do, and you lose cone area (output) using the same number of them. But my 15s get to 25hz strong and have what I call a lot of output for an SQ-ish system. When my roof vibrates I don't think that is called SQ, but its fun on a Friday when the week was too long.

Another thing is you don't need an opening the size of the sub, you can blow a 10 through a 8" hole no problem at all just need enough backmount to allow full xmax. You can go down to about half the cone area (though maybe not with a big xmax sub, but cheap subs its no problem). So you could build a manifold and oppose the subs if you have room for that. I forget the depth of my 15s they are 7" or something so even that gets big if you oppose them. But you can put one in the manifold and the other outside aimed at the rear of it, run them out of phase, so you only have one sub depth plus the manifold that can be a little less than sub depth...plus some airspace above the inside mounted sub. If that makes no sense, think isobaric mount with the between-the-subs area manifolded into the car and no box on it, and run out of phase. I thought about doing that on this car with a bunch of flat 12 or 10s as it would take little space, but the flat subs don't have the best IB tuning and it would cost me more, harder to build, etc. In reality I hung carpet in front of the 15s to hide them, but I can stuff soft luggage right up into them its only the motor that sticks out. So I nearly get my whole trunk anyway.


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

What is your reasoning for mounting your subs upsidown? I would say if you are using a pair of 15"s, go and mount them in an upfiring configuration. I used to run a single 15" IB at 8ohm for a while and it could get low with ease at a good volume (firing into the back of the rear seats). I have no doubt that a pair of 15"s uprifing directly on to your rear glass will get plenty loud when you want it. good luck and post pics. Make sure you build a good beefy baffle and seal that trunk well.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Problem is the rear decks in many cars are one piece molded, you hate to chop them up. Its easier to go through the seatback. In a crown vic the gas tank is there so only the top of the seatback is open, not big enough for 15s standing up.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

new wife????


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

tnbubba said:


> new wife????


Problem solved.


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

Nah. I like the wife I got. 

How about a pair of these?

Pyle PL1290BL 12" Blue Label DVC Subwoofer 292-137

They have a pretty low resonant frequency...


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

look at eminence at PE


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

tnbubba said:


> new wife????


the real solution would be no wife. haha


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## aqlover (Jun 7, 2011)

Yes I know this is almost a year old but do you have any updates. I just picked up a 03 Vic and I'm looking to go IB.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

I remembered I posted a useless reply in this thread awhile back(so here's another . My only update is I went to 3 Acoustic Elegance 12s in IB in my Mustang and I don't think I'll ever go back to having an enclosure if I can help it.

EDIT: If you can fit them easy enough just do it. Get the biggest drivers you can fit back there.


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## aqlover (Jun 7, 2011)

From what I measured the biggest I can fit are 12's, I have a pair of Elemental Designs I wanna try out.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I have always shyed away from Pyle because they were not the best in quality. But for $50 each I tried the Pyle 15s IB

All I can say is, you will be surprised. I have a pair of the 15s on 500 watts and content from 30-45 hz is insanely loud. louder than I listen to on most occasions. They sound very nice too, there is no peaky response with a large trunk too.

The down sides with these is xmax. with only 250 watts each, I dont reach xmax unless I am playing something with ALOT of content under 30hz. for regular music, I am happy with them and I have used sub that were 4-5x as much and didnt really sound much better.


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## aqlover (Jun 7, 2011)

I have read good reviews on using the Pyle's IB. For what I'm going for a 15" is too big. I will be trying 2 12's IB of a 500/1, it should do some work.


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## fast94tracer (Jun 23, 2013)

Another option would be fi ib315 its vas is 6.46 cubic feet

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## thebigjimsho (Jan 11, 2009)

I have an '11 Town Car. It's my work car and it must have the trunk open and a full size spare in that rear parcel shelf. So I'm looking at infinite baffle or a very small enclosure. A JL 10TW3 could definitely work but I didn't know if the W7s would work. If so, would something as small as an 8" work? 

The TC has a cutout for an 8" already. A top mount 10" with a narrower frame could work. 

It need not shake the neighborhood, but I want some decent bass, or why bother...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

The W7 works well IB. I've used the 10", 12", and 13.5". Never tried the 8". 

How about the 13.5" tw5. Or do they make a 13.5" tw3?


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

run two or three of the 12 Pyle's ib.


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## thebigjimsho (Jan 11, 2009)

BuickGN said:


> The W7 works well IB. I've used the 10", 12", and 13.5". Never tried the 8".
> 
> How about the 13.5" tw5. Or do they make a 13.5" tw3?


Having a full size spare on the rear shelf, I may not have the depth for the W7. Will have to measure. 

If the 10TW3 is as good as many think, that in a small enclosure against the rear seat or mounted underneath the rear deck could also be possible, methinks...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

thebigjimsho said:


> Having a full size spare on the rear shelf, I may not have the depth for the W7. Will have to measure.
> 
> If the 10TW3 is as good as many think, that in a small enclosure against the rear seat or mounted underneath the rear deck could also be possible, methinks...


I was thinking IB. Imagine the amount of trunk space with a pair of 3" deep subs with no enclosure. You almost wouldn't notice they were there.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

You would almost not notice them because 2 3"sub's ib won't give you much air movement!
Jmho

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## fast94tracer (Jun 23, 2013)

Im sure a pair of 13tw5 would sound good and be almost non existent in the trunk and it that kind of sub hes talking about when he said 3" deep

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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I thought of getting quad 12s, the $40 flat 12s from pyle and others. The tuning is not as good they would be more boomy, may have to PEQ them....or I know I would. You get close to the displacement of pair of 15s. Xmax likely not that great but quads are never a bad thing in my experience lol. I was going to mount them in a manifold of sorts lifted up, that way the whole floor would be open as it is with 15s. But tuning is lower on the 15s so I went that way. The best thing about 15s is the low Fs, they just dig like crazy.

The pyle 15s are still kicking, the woman is enjoying them lately due to car issues.


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## thebigjimsho (Jan 11, 2009)

A single 8" in the current cutout in IB. BUT, I have a depth of 6" MAX from the deck, itself. Not much space under the current deck pad to top mount. Still need woofer and tweet or coax for clients in the back. Spare tire leaves very little room for any sort of box, at all...

I'll see if I can upload pics...


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

thebigjimsho said:


> A single 8" in the current cutout in IB. BUT, I have a depth of 6" MAX from the deck, itself. Not much space under the current deck pad to top mount. Still need woofer and tweet or coax for clients in the back. Spare tire leaves very little room for any sort of box, at all...
> 
> I'll see if I can upload pics...


I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a '05 Crown Vic LX Sport and the rear deck/trunk are identical to the TC. The depth under the stock sub location in the rear deck is actually closer to 11". I have been thinking about doing 2x10" or 4x8" IB in a manifold that vents into the stock 8" subwoofer opening. You can get pretty creative with an IB manifold and that stock sub opening in the rear deck. You could also do a bandpass with a single 8 that vents into that opening. Everything I am suggesting considers keeping the spare in the stock location...I have a full spare also. 

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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

Yeah, I ended up with a pair of Sundown SD-2 8s in a sealed box.

admittedly, the thought of running them IB has crossed my mind several times, but I doubt they'd satisfy the basshead inside me


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

MUGWUMP said:


> I remembered I posted a useless reply in this thread awhile back(so here's another . My only update is I went to 3 Acoustic Elegance 12s in IB in my Mustang and I don't think I'll ever go back to having an enclosure if I can help it.
> 
> EDIT: If you can fit them easy enough just do it. Get the biggest drivers you can fit back there.


Do you have the AE IB or SBP versions? I'm interested in a pure SQ sub with some cajones. How do they compare to some other SQ subs you've had or heard? Thanks.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't really have much experience with car SQ subs. I had a pair of 10" punch pro series like 20 years ago. Recently I've had a single JL 10w6 and an IDmax12. I have the lower end IB, not the SBP. In the Mustang there's a 9ish db peak just over 40 hz and extends down to about 28hz before it starts to drop off. I've also got my subsonic set to 25 to control excursion because I'm running around 450 to each. I'm sure I could get it flat to 20 hz if I worked with it and made a tune without so much bass. I'm a basshead. As for SQ, they sound every bit as clear as the IDmax12 was in a 2.4cube box ported to 29 hz. They absolutely destroy it for SPL. Before I pulled the 9db out of the sub stage I couldn't listen at full volume. It will do damage for sure.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

dgage said:


> Do you have the AE IB or SBP versions? I'm interested in a pure SQ sub with some cajones. How do they compare to some other SQ subs you've had or heard? Thanks.


If you're wondering which one would be better, I think it depends on the application. If you have a small trunk and you're wanting to run a pair of 15s or a trio of 12s and you're worried about pushing the Qtc up too high, the SBP would be better. With it's stronger motor it's Q is less affected by smaller trunks. 

Properly installed, I doubt you would hear a difference between the two. They have the same cone area and excursion so output will be the same. The SBP is supposed to have lower distortion and I'm sure it does but the standard IB15 is already so low, it's unlikely you would hear it.

Personally I would choose based solely on my trunk size and how many subs I'm running and what the desired Qtc is. Maybe someone will correct me but I can't imagine any difference between the two in a large trunk. I believe both versions have won in competition. 

These subs (either version) will compete with the best in the world. I only wish I had bought 10 more of them back when they were $333 shipped to my door for the pair.  They're everything you could want in a sub. I've had people tell me it sounds like I have a pair of expensive 10s (a stereotype I know) when playing rock. Sometimes I get used to the tightness and quickness when playing music that does not go low that I'm surprised when they flex the whole car when playing rap or other low hitting music. They're accurate and detailed and will blend with the midbass. They're gentle when called for to the point you're not sure they're even on until you turn them off but they will get painfully loud when called for. 

I personally run mine with no subsonic because I like the "energy" you feel from the very low stuff. Even bass heads that listen to it are surprised at how low it goes. I'm only running 250w each so I can give them everrything the amp has to offer without hurting them as long as there's no content much below 20hz. 

There are several comparisons on here, one with the IB15s vs 3 IDMax 12s.


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## thebigjimsho (Jan 11, 2009)

Hertz5400LincolnLS said:


> I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a '05 Crown Vic LX Sport and the rear deck/trunk are identical to the TC. The depth under the stock sub location in the rear deck is actually closer to 11". I have been thinking about doing 2x10" or 4x8" IB in a manifold that vents into the stock 8" subwoofer opening. You can get pretty creative with an IB manifold and that stock sub opening in the rear deck. You could also do a bandpass with a single 8 that vents into that opening. Everything I am suggesting considers keeping the spare in the stock location...I have a full spare also.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


I will try to post some pics. I have a full size spare on that rear shelf and the 8" hole is above it. I stuck a tape measure down from above and it was 6" from the tire to the opening in the rear deck. But, a shrewdly shaped box with something like a 10TW3 should work...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

for2nato said:


> You would almost not notice them because 2 3"sub's ib won't give you much air movement!
> Jmho
> 
> Sent from your moms closet using TapaTalk 4!!!


No, but two 13.5" subs that are 3" deep would move a good bit of air and hardly be noticed.


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