# 2004 Audi S4 - basic system



## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

This is going to be a very simple build . . . but it is my first time and would like to make use of the collective guidance available here.

I am installing the following:
Hertz MLK165
Nakamichi PA4100
Nakamichi PA1500
Wicked CAS Sub Box
10" Alpine Type R

All run off of a Pioneer Avic Z2

I just got started tonight trying to get everything figured out. 

Pulled the door panel - I don't think I'll spend too much time dampening here, looks decent from the factory. There are a couple of areas where there is no metal behind the factory foam . . . not sure of the foam itself is a good enough seal?









Old speaker and the new:









The overall height is nearly identical however the factory speaker has a plastic vented backing on it which sat very close to the hardware inside the door. 









If I mount the hertz driver like this the magnet will be 1/8" away from said hardware. At most. Is this going to pose problems to the performance of the speaker?










No idea what I am going to do with the amps. Don't want to mount them to the seat backs, this seems cheesy to me. But might not have a choice?









Maybe eliminate the spare tire and build a rack for them if there is space. Ideas?









I'll keep updating as I go, going to work a few hours a day at it so it will be slow going.

Any advice is welcome, I'm a complete newbie!


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

The doors on my B6 A4 didn't need any deadening at all, except to quell a couple of rattles in the door cards, themselves. I put a little bit of deadener behind the 5.25" Focals in my front doors (in the factory locations - I dremeled out the speaker mounts for the old speakers and glued in MDF rings to hold the Focals). 

Do, however, do the spare tire well, and areas here and there in the trunk with damping material: Since you're from Alberta, do you know about B-Quiet? If not, they're a favourite brand for Canadian car audio types since it's good stuff, is a little less expensive, and you don't have to ship it over the border.

Do do the trunk lid, but don't overdo it: the lid shocks can't support much more weight than they do now, so try to only cover a third or so.

I mounted a single (very long) Boston amp on the larger of the two back seats, since I could find no other place for it. If you have a smaller amp or amps, the factory amp is located on the right side of the trunk, behind the 12v outlet. If you're creative, you can likely get yours in there. You have likely already considered pulling the factory subwoofer (in the middle of the rear deck) and hanging the amps upside down. It's not a bad idea if they have internal cooling, since there are no support bars for the trunk in the way up there.

Also, I have to ask: why an AVIC unit when Audi already makes the greatest Navigation / multimedia unit of all time (the RNS-E)? I have one in mine, and it's spoiled me for other nav units with the degree of integration, fit, finish, sound quality (ground the bose pin in the factory harness and tap the pre-existing line outs from the deck for very clean ~2V pre-outs). I run a short RCA from the RNS-E to a Clarion 7-band EQ in the glove box, which boosts the signal to about 4.5-5V and splits it into FRONT for a 2-way passive set (Focal K series) and SUB (a range of smaller 12 and 10" ones) and finally into a Boston GT-42 amp. I just disconnected the rear speakers and original amp, but left them in the car.

Edit: Also, welcome!


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> The doors on my B6 A4 didn't need any deadening at all, except to quell a couple of rattles in the door cards, themselves. I put a little bit of deadener behind the 5.25" Focals in my front doors (in the factory locations - I dremeled out the speaker mounts for the old speakers and glued in MDF rings to hold the Focals).
> 
> Do, however, do the spare tire well, and areas here and there in the trunk with damping material: Since you're from Alberta, do you know about B-Quiet? If not, they're a favourite brand for Canadian car audio types since it's good stuff, is a little less expensive, and you don't have to ship it over the border.
> 
> ...


Whoa, didn't expect this much info for the entire duration of this thread, let alone from the first post. Much appreciated!

First, I have a question for you. Why did you go with 5.25" comps when you can easily fit 6"?

When you say you dremelled out the factory speakers mounts, do you mean you used the modified factory plastic spacers to attach your focals (with mdf ring to adapt 5.25 to 6")? I have been considering using the factory plastic spacers to attach the new drivers but it seems to me MDF spacers would give better isolation than the factor plastic "spacers...?

When you say you put sound deadener behind the speaker locations - how is that possible? You can see in the picture above that there is some hardware behind the speaker that looks like it ties into the window mechanism or something . . . did you just put deadener over that?

My drivers are deep enough that the magnet will be sitting very very close the that mechanism behind the speaker . . . is this bad for the performance of the speaker?

As far as mounting the amps, the Nakamichi amps aren't as big as my Audison LRX4.1K which I am considering using as well . . . I am tossing around the idea of pulling the spare tire and building an MDF "amp rack" but not sure if I will have enough clearance. If that doesn't work I will likely have to mount them to the underside of the parcel shelf.

I will be removing the factory subwoofer regardless as I am sure it will interfere with the transfer of bass between the trunk and cabin with the new subwoofer.

As far as the Avic unit goes, it was in the car when I bought it. Trust me, I would MUCH rather have an RNS-E unit, but can't justify the cost as the prev owner installed this Pioneer with sat radio, ipod, bluetooth, steering wheel controls etc etc etc. The cost of the RNS-E compared to what this Avic is worth on the used market is just too much to justify. One day I'll make the switch.

Thanks again for your input!


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

jrhaze said:


> First, I have a question for you. Why did you go with 5.25" comps when you can easily fit 6"?


I chose them because I was a little concerned about mounting depth, and because I was skeptical of the fit I would be able to achieve while reusing the factory speaker pod (I wanted to preserve that rubber lip around the outside edge at the time, though in retrospect, I'm not sure it would have mattered). You're right, though; I likely could have gotten away with 6.5" speakers. For the record, I used the Focal 130KR set, and I certainly don't find them wanting. Take care to add some mass to those pods, though, no matter what size of speaker you go with.



jrhaze said:


> When you say you dremelled out the factory speakers mounts, do you mean you used the modified factory plastic spacers to attach your focals (with mdf ring to adapt 5.25 to 6")?


Correct, except that the factory speakers are roughly 6.5". I dremelled out the speaker's inner mounting flange (and speaker!) until it was a smooth inner surface -- or at least close -- then cut an MDF ring which was just small enough to slide into the tube from the back and bonded it into the mount. The result is a nice fit, and is substantially heavier and more solid than the piece was from the factory. If you found that you needed more mounting depth for the speaker, you could also cheat by telescoping your MDF mounting ring into the interior a little more, for added depth in the door. 



jrhaze said:


> When you say you put sound deadener behind the speaker locations - how is that possible?


Now that you mention it, it was a painful job -- I cut a bunch of small pieces (roughly the size of a playing card) and snaked them in around the window track. I did this before mounting the Focals, so I can't say how much difference it made, but adding mass there can't really hurt.




jrhaze said:


> My drivers are deep enough that the magnet will be sitting very very close the that mechanism behind the speaker . . . is this bad for the performance of the speaker?


Provided you haven't actually plugged a vent in the speaker, no, as far as I know, you'll be okay. It would be a different matter if it were a solid wall, but you shouldn't notice any ill effects. You should certainly verify that the window track, itself, doesn't rattle, though, and don't allow the speaker to actually touch it in any case (including with the window 10% down while driving on a bumpy road, for instance). If you're really close, telescope your MDF mount out of the tube as mentioned earlier to create a little more clearance.



jrhaze said:


> I am tossing around the idea of pulling the spare tire and building an MDF "amp rack" but not sure if I will have enough clearance.


I found that there was surprisingly little room in that spare tire well -- the centre mount point comes up to sit almost flush with the floor of the trunk. Also, I have a lot of vehicles with no spare tire, but I wouldn't drive the Audi without one since it's my 'responsible' car.

Feel free to ask questions, as you go! Also, it may be worth soliciting more widely for opinions on your mounting depth issue with the window track, as there could be factors there I'm not aware of. 

How about some more pictures of the car??


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> How about some more pictures of the car??


Might as well get this one out of the way...


















and one with the winter wheels


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

Great car. That's the best colour for it, too! I take it that you're using some kind of waterless car wash? If so, what is it, and how does it deal with salt?


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## nittanylion64 (Oct 3, 2007)

Love the summer rims. I also really like Edmonton as a city too!


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> I chose them because I was a little concerned about mounting depth, and because I was skeptical of the fit I would be able to achieve while reusing the factory speaker pod (I wanted to preserve that rubber lip around the outside edge at the time, though in retrospect, I'm not sure it would have mattered). You're right, though; I likely could have gotten away with 6.5" speakers. For the record, I used the Focal 130KR set, and I certainly don't find them wanting. Take care to add some mass to those pods, though, no matter what size of speaker you go with.


I am thinking I'll use the factory plastic spacers with some dampening or modelling clay to add some substance...Seems like an easy solution and should work out just fine.




CA4944 said:


> Now that you mention it, it was a painful job -- I cut a bunch of small pieces (roughly the size of a playing card) and snaked them in around the window track. I did this before mounting the Focals, so I can't say how much difference it made, but adding mass there can't really hurt.


I think I will go through the same exercise . . . I just ordered 50 sq-ft of B-Quiet like you suggested so should have no shortage.



CA4944 said:


> Provided you haven't actually plugged a vent in the speaker, no, as far as I know, you'll be okay. It would be a different matter if it were a solid wall, but you shouldn't notice any ill effects. You should certainly verify that the window track, itself, doesn't rattle, though, and don't allow the speaker to actually touch it in any case (including with the window 10% down while driving on a bumpy road, for instance). If you're really close, telescope your MDF mount out of the tube as mentioned earlier to create a little more clearance.


So do you know if that window mechanism moves when the window moves up and down? I guess I should just hook the battery up and make sure.



CA4944 said:


> I found that there was surprisingly little room in that spare tire well -- the centre mount point comes up to sit almost flush with the floor of the trunk. Also, I have a lot of vehicles with no spare tire, but I wouldn't drive the Audi without one since it's my 'responsible' car.


I am willing to lose the spare tire I think, but like you said there is not a lot of clearance down there. I'll see what I can figure out. My goal is to have the entire thing as stealth as possible.


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> Great car. That's the best colour for it, too! I take it that you're using some kind of waterless car wash? If so, what is it, and how does it deal with salt?


Thanks!

No waterless car wash . . . just wait for a warm(ish) day and take it to the local wand-wash. I don't drive it much in the winter - after washing it once it will sit clean in the garage for a week or two quite often.

They don't use much salt on the roads out here . . . I take it you're from the East?


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

jrhaze said:


> So do you know if that window mechanism moves when the window moves up and down? I guess I should just hook the battery up and make sure.
> ...
> I am willing to lose the spare tire I think, but like you said there is not a lot of clearance down there. I'll see what I can figure out. My goal is to have the entire thing as stealth as possible.


No, I don't think the track moves at that point, but that was more a general warning than something specific to the car. As you say, it's not a bad idea to run it up and down a couple of times while you watch what's going on in there.

On the stealth note, I agree completely: It's a big trunk, but a rear-facing subwoofer box and a big amp mounted on the back seat have made mine a lot less usable, and I only fold the seats down if I'm desperate, now. Also, you have the pass-through, and it would be a shame to block that.

I know you're planning to use the left cubby hole for the sub, but if you were also willing to trade away the right cubby, I think you could easily angle two amps into the space behind the trunk lining. What wouldn't be easy, though, is adjusting them in that state.


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

jrhaze said:


> Thanks!
> 
> No waterless car wash . . . just wait for a warm(ish) day and take it to the local wand-wash. I don't drive it much in the winter - after washing it once it will sit clean in the garage for a week or two quite often.
> 
> They don't use much salt on the roads out here . . . I take it you're from the East?


Yes, Kingston, ON. They love the salt, here. If you park a perfectly clean car on the street on a dry day in the winter, it will have a fine mist of salt on it by the time it gets dark. My fun cars stay under cover until April or so, when I can no longer stand it.


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> On the stealth note, I agree completely: It's a big trunk, but a rear-facing subwoofer box and a big amp mounted on the back seat have made mine a lot less usable, and I only fold the seats down if I'm desperate, now. Also, you have the pass-through, and it would be a shame to block that.
> 
> I know you're planning to use the left cubby hole for the sub, but if you were also willing to trade away the right cubby, I think you could easily angle two amps into the space behind the trunk lining. What wouldn't be easy, though, is adjusting them in that state.


This is a good point, I could care less about the cubby on the right, I'll dig into it and see if there is any way I can shoe-horn the amps in there...if I decide to use the Audison amp it's a giant beast so that will only make things more difficult. 

The nakamichi is rated at 100x4 - hopefully it's a unit that actually makes rated power. The MLKs are bi-ampable so I intend on running all 4 channels into the MLK passive x-overs. That being said, I would imagine that's way more power than the tweeters need, I might be better off bridging the amp which should give me 350x2 and running the passives normally. Thoughts?


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> Yes, Kingston, ON. They love the salt, here. If you park a perfectly clean car on the street on a dry day in the winter, it will have a fine mist of salt on it by the time it gets dark. My fun cars stay under cover until April or so, when I can no longer stand it.


I know the feeling, I'm always jumping the gun to fire the motorcycles up before I should be. The winters are just too long.

I'm sure glad the salt usage is limited here, helps keep rust at bay as well...I know many people out here shy away from buying east coast cars because of the liberal usage of the salt out there.


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## Kenny_Cox (Sep 9, 2007)

diggin' it! I am trying to part ways with my TBSS in order to get into an S4. Love the styling, the rims look awesome.


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

jrhaze said:


> The nakamichi is rated at 100x4 - hopefully it's a unit that actually makes rated power. The MLKs are bi-ampable so I intend on running all 4 channels into the MLK passive x-overs. That being said, I would imagine that's way more power than the tweeters need, I might be better off bridging the amp which should give me 350x2 and running the passives normally. Thoughts?


I think the prevailing sentiment on this board is that you should abandon the crossovers and run the drivers active, but I'm still not willing to do that just yet. I'm afraid I don't know anything about these amps, and have never even handled a Hertz driver, so that's beyond the realm of my experience! Those are unquestionably the makings of a great system, though!

By the way, of significance only because you're also in Canada: I ordered some miscellaneous wire today from KnuConceptz, and the shipping was only $8.


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

Kenny_Cox said:


> diggin' it! I am trying to part ways with my TBSS in order to get into an S4. Love the styling, the rims look awesome.


Trailblazer SS was on my short list when I got the S4 as well as the Jeep GC STR8 (too much $$).....

Came down to the S4 or M3 in the end, and the AWD won for the climate I am in.


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> I think the prevailing sentiment on this board is that you should abandon the crossovers and run the drivers active, but I'm still not willing to do that just yet. I'm afraid I don't know anything about these amps, and have never even handled a Hertz driver, so that's beyond the realm of my experience! Those are unquestionably the makings of a great system, though!
> 
> By the way, of significance only because you're also in Canada: I ordered some miscellaneous wire today from KnuConceptz, and the shipping was only $8.


Thanks for the tip on the wire...I'll be checking that out.

I tried active in my last vehicle for a while and couldn't get excited about it. I don't have the time, skills or tools required to properly tune an active system.

I will be using the passives, at least to start. 

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions, I'm going to get back in there tonight if I can find the motivation. I do have a 4 day weekend coming so I am hoping to have this wrapped up by the end of it.


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## cgw (Jan 31, 2009)

Very nice car, are those wheels the VMR710 18"??


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## jrhaze (Aug 30, 2009)

cgw said:


> Very nice car, are those wheels the VMR710 18"??


Thanks...
Close on the wheels - they are VMR V710s in 19"


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## Kenny_Cox (Sep 9, 2007)

jrhaze said:


> Trailblazer SS was on my short list when I got the S4 as well as the Jeep GC STR8 (too much $$).....
> 
> Came down to the S4 or M3 in the end, and the AWD won for the climate I am in.


I know what you're saying. I was looking at my SS and an SRT-8. The SRT-8 was an '06 and had 25,000 miles, it was on the market for the same price I bought my '08 TBSS for, brand new. This was my first new car buying experience and they forced me into buying it, in a sense. I won't let that happen again, i wish I would've test driven more of my options.


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## cgw (Jan 31, 2009)

Love the car, love the color and really LOVE those wheels.


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## six2six (Mar 25, 2007)

Love the car and the wheels. What size are the wheels. Looks wicked.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

six2six said:


> Love the car and the wheels. What size are the wheels. Looks wicked.


Please read the thread correctly... The info has been given a few posts above yours...  

Kelvin


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## cleung (Feb 11, 2010)

nice choice in equipment, and nice car btw. Keep us updated with the install.


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## six2six (Mar 25, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Please read the thread correctly... The info has been given a few posts above yours...
> 
> Kelvin


My mistake, just noticed.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Don't worry about it... Just messing with ya 

Kelvin


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## jhmeg2 (Nov 6, 2009)

if I may... If you have the meens, you should look into the small Memphis Belle. I am running the big Belle, and I friggin love it. I also just drove from Wisconsin to Virginia, to build a friends system using the small Belle. Also, the JL 900/5, is super small and it sounds great. Either amp is a 5 ch, and will run your system nicely. Also, if you are looking for great sound and not as much bass, I recomend using an 8" sub in a t-line. Depending on how wide your vehicle is between the rear shock towers, your box may only be 10" tall. I will tell you, just because you use an 8", you will have plenty of bass. I run an 8" in my Trailblazer, and I can do 140dB. In my buddy's Impala, he may be doing the same if not a little more. If you use the JL amp, you WILL fit it almost ANYWHERE you want!!! Hope this helps. Good luck.


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## jboen (Jun 6, 2011)

CA4944 said:


> The doors on my B6 A4 didn't need any deadening at all, except to quell a couple of rattles in the door cards, themselves. I put a little bit of deadener behind the 5.25" Focals in my front doors (in the factory locations - I dremeled out the speaker mounts for the old speakers and glued in MDF rings to hold the Focals).
> 
> Do, however, do the spare tire well, and areas here and there in the trunk with damping material: Since you're from Alberta, do you know about B-Quiet? If not, they're a favourite brand for Canadian car audio types since it's good stuff, is a little less expensive, and you don't have to ship it over the border.
> 
> ...


Sent you a PM


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## jboen (Jun 6, 2011)

CA4944 said:


> The doors on my B6 A4 didn't need any deadening at all, except to quell a couple of rattles in the door cards, themselves. I put a little bit of deadener behind the 5.25" Focals in my front doors (in the factory locations - I dremeled out the speaker mounts for the old speakers and glued in MDF rings to hold the Focals).
> 
> Do, however, do the spare tire well, and areas here and there in the trunk with damping material: Since you're from Alberta, do you know about B-Quiet? If not, they're a favourite brand for Canadian car audio types since it's good stuff, is a little less expensive, and you don't have to ship it over the border.
> 
> ...


Looks like you have a full inbox so i will ask here.

I just bought the RNS-E and was wondering about the line outs, do i have to run a pigtail from the bose ground to each of the 4 lineouts i create or can i just take each of the 4 line outs and create rcas with 1 common ground going somewhere to the chassis.

thank you for your time!!


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## mushasho (May 21, 2011)

jboen said:


> Looks like you have a full inbox so i will ask here.
> 
> I just bought the RNS-E and was wondering about the line outs, do i have to run a pigtail from the bose ground to each of the 4 lineouts i create or can i just take each of the 4 line outs and create rcas with 1 common ground going somewhere to the chassis.
> 
> thank you for your time!!


Seeing as I was going to run speaker wire from the trunk to the doors anyhow, I took the oportunity to run RCA leads to the doors too.... "WHY?" you ask? Well because you can tap into the line-level signal right there BEFORE it reaches the BOSE amp... no need to remove RNS-E from dash or mess with making a common ground harness.

that's what I did


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## multiphrenic (Nov 27, 2011)

beautiful car and nice build!


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