# How to increase Midbass response and speaker installation



## ak2366 (Dec 27, 2010)

I would like you to recommend Products that have a good probability of working to help increase bass response on the door panel that can be installed behind the speakers. I already have dynamat deadening and dynaliner installed. But i was thinking of installing something directly behind the drivers that could echo and help with response. Please leave great and HELPFUL comments! ...Thanks!


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

How big of a speaker can you fit there? I'd look for a speaker with low Qts, perhaps below 0,35 and somewhat lowish Fs/Vas. This kind of speaker tend to give pretty good bass response in small enclosures. The drawback is low sensitivity. You probably need some tuning capabilities aswell to get a good FR response.

Hope you got 'some' useful information out of this


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Make the best "baffle" you can.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ak2366 said:


> I would like you to recommend Products that have a good probability of working to help increase bass response on the door panel that can be installed behind the speakers. I already have dynamat deadening and dynaliner installed. *But i was thinking of installing something directly behind the drivers that could echo and help with response.* Please leave great and HELPFUL comments! ...Thanks!


all that will do is muddy up your bass. if you want to put anything behind the drivers, then put something to absorb reflections. the only way to get good bass response from a midbass is installing it correctly and picking a driver that is big enough to reproduce the freq you want it to play.


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

These may help, I have them installed in my car but I did not take any before and after impressions so I can only assume.

Eliminate destructive speaker backwave energy with Deflex.

Deflex PowerPads 
Deflex PowerPads Pads are waterproof speaker backwave damping pads, specially designed to prevent speaker cone break-up due to standing waves and enclosure resonance. This allows higher sound volumes with a minimum of distortion.

Deflex Power Pads are made of an advanced polymer on the verge of becoming a liquid. The material, being an excellent shock absorber combined with a spherical, concave surface eliminates enclosure standing waves. Basically the material deflects and fragments the speaker back wave instead of converting it to heat like Dacron or fiberglass. The result is high output with greatly minimized cone distortion and break-up. The audible benefit is greater control and increased detail. 

The Deflex Power Pads are ideally suited behind any mid range to low frequency speaker. They replace existing fiberfill or foam absorbers. Enclosures that are shallow and have a rear wall that is parallel to the speaker benefit the most from a power pad application. This also includes in-wall speaker applications. Vehicle doors are also ideally suited for treatment, especially since foams or fiberfill can not be used due to water exposure. 
Deflex Power Pads need to be roughly the same diameter or larger than the speaker cone. The following sizes are available: 7" and 12" x 12" singles.


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## ak2366 (Dec 27, 2010)

SoundChaser said:


> These may help, I have them installed in my car but I did not take any before and after impressions so I can only assume.
> 
> Eliminate destructive speaker backwave energy with Deflex.
> 
> ...


Thanks makes alot of sense i am running focal KRX2 component speakers i am sure these would benefit from Deflex


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

ak2366 said:


> I would like you to recommend Products that have a good probability of working to help increase bass response on the door panel that can be installed behind the speakers. I already have dynamat deadening and dynaliner installed. But i was thinking of installing something directly behind the drivers that could echo and help with response. Please leave great and HELPFUL comments! ...Thanks!


Before I explain how to fix this, let me describe the problem.

When you listen to a loudspeaker, and there's a notch and a dip next to each other, it can be really devilish to fix.

If you increase the bass you fix the notch but you make the peak worse.
If you decrease the bass you fix the peak but make the notch worse.

Worst of all, ALL cars have a notch and a peak like this:










That's a graph of cabin gain done by JBL. See how it goes "peak-notch-peak?" IE, there's a peak at 80hz, then a notch half an octave below it, and then another peak at 40hz.

IMHO, this is mostly due to standing waves due to the length and the width of the cabin. Because the car cabin is generally half as wide as the cabin length, you get peaks and dips in close proximity.

IE, if the dimensions of the cabin weren't so symmetrical, the null at 60hz wouldn't be so deep.

So, yeah. *This is a problem with the cabin.*

A mic and narrow band EQ would go a long way. Wideband EQ won't help though, due to the proximity of the peak and the dip.

A midbass array might solve this too - I've posted about that on here a couple years back. I *think* it was here but not 100% sure:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-advanced/74088-midbass-arrays-revisited.html

Whatever you do, don't waste any money on new speakers or tweaks to your existing ones. This is just an acoustic problem. If you don't want to buy an EQ, you could experiment with a different locations.

I posted some more info on what can fix this here:

Audio Psychosis • View topic - Midbass That Doesn't Suck


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## ak2366 (Dec 27, 2010)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Before I explain how to fix this, let me describe the problem.
> 
> When you listen to a loudspeaker, and there's a notch and a dip next to each other, it can be really devilish to fix.
> 
> ...


Nice advice thank you, i dont plan to change my focals just yet but how about the Deflex pads behind the speaker in the door panel, What are your thoughts on this product?

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/door-panel-removal-sound-deadening-install-pics-20069.html


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## mastaof420 (Dec 22, 2011)

I had the same want for more midbass, but my system seems to be lacking in the real punch in the 50-150hz area. I used to have a 1987 toyota celica with 2-12s and 2-8s in the trunk, and that thing had some real punch to it. Not real boomy bass but punch in the heavy drums. 

I set them up myself, about 6 years ago, and have since changed vehicles a few times. I moved that system into 2 other vehicles and both times it just didn't sound the same. 3 vehicles later and I'm building a system from the ground up going for the same thing.

Patrick bateman has really pinpointed it. I've come to the conclusion that you need to build the system around the vehicle.......and if after you've got everything together and you don't like the way it sounds, change your setup, or add speakers to fill the gaps in frequency response. 

Right now I've got a 05 neon srt with a jl e6450 and a 500/1, 2 sets of 6-1/2 components, 2-12w1v2s and a single jl 6w3 to fill that gap. I don't have the 6w3 hooked up yet, and I just got the 12s in tonight, but I'll let u know how it goes.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

As far as those deflex pads, from what i've read, if any improvement, it'll be on your mid range. There is mixed reviews about this stuff , so if anything you just have to experament.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

These deflex pads have me intrigued. I've read some positive reviews and some not so positive reviews. I play my midbasses up to 1,600hz and the midrange is very nice but if these pads only improve midrange I would still be happy with them. I guess the only way to know is to order them but I'll have to resist installing them until after I get the RTA and do before measurements.


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## Jonjon (Dec 24, 2011)

After all these comments , i advice you to put this little piece of magic . Its called :Clarion mcd 360 , this unit will increase ur mid bass with clean sound. Try it man !


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## nigeDLS (Nov 5, 2011)

It's just a crossover, how can it make any difference?


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## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

subscribed....


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

My take on deflex pads is anything that can keep the backwave scattered is a good thing. My philosophy is you never know unless you try. All vehicles are different so what didn't work in one might be just what the other one needs. Not trying is the quickest way to failure.


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## audioanamoly (Oct 19, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Make the best "baffle" you can.


X2, the thicker the better. Structurally Reinforce the metal as much as possible, mass load, etc.


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## audioanamoly (Oct 19, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> These deflex pads have me intrigued. I've read some positive reviews and some not so positive reviews. I play my midbasses up to 1,600hz and the midrange is very nice but if these pads only improve midrange I would still be happy with them. I guess the only way to know is to order them but I'll have to resist installing them until after I get the RTA and do before measurements.


I use them and I'm a firm believer in them. You will like what you hear, or don't hear, depending on how you look at it.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

More than likely the problem is that lower midrange frequencies are masking the midbass.
youll need an EQ and an RTA or at least a decent RTA app---odds are you have peaks in the 250-500region which are masking midbass response


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## ak2366 (Dec 27, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> More than likely the problem is that lower midrange frequencies are masking the midbass.
> youll need an EQ and an RTA or at least a decent RTA app---odds are you have peaks in the 250-500region which are masking midbass response


Thanks for your input not sure what you mean by RTA ?? , do you mean like speaker tools app on iphone, please be more specific about your recommendations and solutions. Can i use the deflex pads as well?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Most recently I've gone with 6db slopes between the midbass and mids and it seems to have eliminated much of the peaks and dips. Maybe it's two different speakers in different locations covering some of the same frequencies, I have no idea.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

RTA= real time analyzer. it will give u an idea what your systems frequency response is and where you may have peaks. you will hear peaks before you hear anything else. I am betting you have peaks that are masking your midbass response.
deflex pad wont hurt anything, wont help much either


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

audioanamoly said:


> X2, the thicker the better. Structurally Reinforce the metal as much as possible, mass load, etc.


You gotta start with a good foundation, and build the baffle as solid as possible. Eliminating resonance=more db and more punchIMHO.


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## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

> More than likely the problem is that lower midrange frequencies are masking the midbass.
> youll need an EQ and an RTA or at least a decent RTA app---odds are you have peaks in the 250-500region which are masking midbass response


I agree with Mic on this one. I run a three way front stage and low passing my midbass at 250hz and high passing my mids at 400hz cleaned up my midbass a lot. Sometimes using a wider gap with a shallower slope between drivers can do a better job of flattening your FR than just using an EQ.


-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

Going to go all oddball on you-has anyone thought of a Helmholtz resonator in the door? It should allow you to produce a peak at one frequency and a lot cheaper than a decent 31band EQ. I know Joakim Skovlund uses one in his sub enclosure of his EMMA winning BMW:

Garasjen - Joakim Skovlund - YouTube


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Got pics of the finished inner door skin without the foam over it? By the way, you also should add some mass loaded vinyl over the dynaliner. It'll help keep the inverted back wave from coming into the cabin and canceling out the sound once it combines with the front wave (ie what people think dynaliner is doing but actually isn't).


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