# Horn Advocates!! Need Your Help!



## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

I need to have something straightened out. My instructor at a local technical school seems strongly against HLCD and thinks I get too many of my opinions from forums (which may be true). To his understanding, horns will never sound as good as regular component sets which to an extent is true, but I disagree in the fact that with the right tuning, a set of HLCDs can sound just as good if not better than a component set. 

Please school me. Explain to me the pros and cons of horns! Let me have the RIGHT understanding so my words are no longer light with opinion.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Horns are better at everything IMHO . They cannot replace the whole component set but they do replace a small midrange and tweeter. For best results you want to pair them with an appropriate midbass driver

*Controlled dispersion-* More direct sound energy and less reflected energy in the car environment improving staging and imaging with better clarity and tonality also. The controlled dispersion also creates much more focused images and a more realistic sound stage by helping to overcome the off center seating position, this is done with the horns cross firing dispersion pattern. 

*higher sensitivity-* With 1watt @ 1meter sensitivity of 107 to 111 dB typically they can achieve a much higher dynamic range by significant margin (as in not even close) which makes anything you play back more lifelike and less like a recorded facsimile of the real thing. 

*Lower Distortion-* A good HLCD will produce much less distortion represented as THD at a nominal 90 dB listening level than a component set.

All horns are not created equal. And I agree there are some horns that only sound decent once they have received copious amounts of equalization. 

The Stevens Audio horns I offer now and previous when with ID sound good just with proper crossover and level matching. Yes EQ makes them better but that is no different than a component set. I would gladly enter a sound competition with no eq against component based systems with no eq also and expect to clean house in all aspects including tonality etc.

This is just a quick list and I encourage others to add or leave their thoughts.

Eric


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

I'd say your "instructor" needs to listen to more live music.


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

When I read a post like this....THIS IS WHY I AM STUCK ON STUPID WITH HORNS...even though they are PITA to install......Currently I am trying to figure out how I am going to install these Veritas Aluminum Horns with these Huge Drivers....with the installer I am working with it looks like we are going to fabricate a Clutch Pedal...and NO I will not try another motor...I have been thru every horn OLD ID's V1, V2, Pro Comp & Ultras, & BMS now its The Veritas Turn....


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Eric Stevens said:


> Horns are better at everything IMHO . They cannot replace the whole component set but they do replace a small midrange and tweeter. For best results you want to pair them with an appropriate midbass driver
> 
> *Controlled dispersion-* More direct sound energy and less reflected energy in the car environment improving staging and imaging with better clarity and tonality also. The controlled dispersion also creates much more focused images and a more realistic sound stage by helping to overcome the off center seating position, this is done with the horns cross firing dispersion pattern.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much Eric for the response! Super informative from an extremely reliable source. I was really hoping for such a response. 



benny said:


> I'd say your "instructor" needs to listen to more live music.


I did throw in the notion of public announcement systems, and the argument was a change in imaging/stage.



Diezel10 said:


> When I read a post like this....THIS IS WHY I AM STUCK ON STUPID WITH HORNS...even though they are PITA to install......Currently I am trying to figure out how I am going to install these Veritas Aluminum Horns with these Huge Drivers....with the installer I am working with it looks like we are going to fabricate a Clutch Pedal...and NO I will not try another motor...I have been thru every horn OLD ID's V1, V2, Pro Comp & Ultras, & BMS now its The Veritas Turn....


Ah yeah I can't wait to pick up a set and find a way to install them! It'll be really interesting, and I'll do a full write up on it. I honestly don't think people know enough about horns when really, they are a whole new type of audio application in the mobile electronics industry. Virtually untouched by the local audio businesses in my area (Sounds on Wheels, Aspen Sound, Car Toys, Snow's Auto), I feel that with the right backing and introduction, HLCD can very much crush the market in my area. 

Most of the audio shops in my area are stuck on name brand companies such as Alpine, Kenwood, Kicker. I'm not to say that these companies do not have good products, but for the money there is better out there. I have yet to see a set of HAT, Image Dynamics or Digital Designs speakers in a shop around town. The closest place there is that has DD products (used to have ID products) is a sound shop in Portland. I live in Spokane. The market is there. You just need someone to take advantage of it.


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

I was in the same place as you....there are no shops or anyone out here (Riverside County) and when you bring your own equipment they won't even talk to you when I moved to Chino, Ca. I had the honor to meet and speak with Eric and met with Matt......Matt installed ultras mini horns in the Silver Dodge Ram QC!!........Ultra minis and X69's in the Doors....YOWZA

and from what I understand a lot of shops do not know how to install or tune horns.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

horns. horns. horns. 

'nuff said. 

but seriously, i think it depends on what you are trying to go for in the end. I prefer audio with great dynamics and life like sound... you don't get that with a 1" tweeter... sorry. but it just doesn't happen like that.


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## Hoye0017 (Mar 23, 2010)

Where might we procure "Stevens Audio" horns? I don't know the rules but a website would be great to check out.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Hoye0017 said:


> Where might we procure "Stevens Audio" horns? I don't know the rules but a website would be great to check out.


I would speak with Eric directly. He's the second post in this thread and the owner of said company.

Thanks for all of the input guys!


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

there are still alot of people with misconceptions about horns dating back to the 90s competition with horns.
There was a few years where alot of the Top IASCA cars all used horns, whether from USD, ID starting out etc....
The success naturally spawned imitators and copy cats, who only contributed the success of these competitors to them using horns.

So lots more people started using horns, only these people had no clue what they were doing. they treated horns like conventional speakers but they didnt even bother to follow any basic concepts like level matching, power ratios, EQ....

This resulted in horns getting a huge stigma as being brash, harsh, bright, in your face etc.....

Ive actually gotten in arguments with judges and others who have heard various versions of my cars that had horns who all told me that there was no way my car had horns in it bc it didnt sound like a "horn" car.
They flat out called me a liar to my face til I had them get out of the car, get down and look way under the dash.
to which the next response was usually "are you ****in kiddin me, how'd you do that?"

I had some other competitors who had never really ever heard horns listen to my car at a show recently, they all use a very well known competition speaker brand, and each one had a similar response "this sounds effortless"
they marveled at the focus of the center image, the width, the height and how stable all the aspects were but they were really amazed at just how effortless the sound was and had it created a visceral feeling when listening to music. It created an emotional connection and response.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Hoye0017 said:


> Where might we procure "Stevens Audio" horns? I don't know the rules but a website would be great to check out.


Contact me directly and I can help you, I am currently flying low with no websitre and just servicing those that know how to reach me until I get a new venture launched.

Eric


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## left channel (Jul 9, 2008)

I think that Mic explained it the best. There is a special feeling that you get when you listen to a properly installed and tuned horn system. It is more than just dynamics as most would describe. It is a sense of being there at a live performance, an energy that involves you in a way that most traditional speakers can not do in a small environment like a car.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Only 5% of the people that I talk to (all of which are heavily into audio) know what horns are. Of those few people, two of them actually had quality things to say. Of the rest it's either they are "too bright" to listen to, low quality and/or hard on the ears (fatigue). I really can't wait to get my set of Pros so I can actually see (or hear) first hand what really can be done.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

those that really do not know what horns are and even some who claim they do may also be mistaking them for Piezo Bullet horns, in which case they are right -that they are bright


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

when I was first getting into audio, I had a set of piezo tweeters loaded into a shallow horn. if that is what people are using as thier reference point I can see it, lol. they sounded like two cats fighting on the roof.


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## win1 (Sep 27, 2008)

Sub'd


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## sh.moto.2 (Jul 2, 2010)

left channel said:


> I think that Mic explained it the best. There is a special feeling that you get when you listen to a properly installed and tuned horn system. It is more than just dynamics as most would describe. It is a sense of being there at a live performance, an energy that involves you in a way that most traditional speakers can not do in a small environment like a car.


:2thumbsup:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

But the thing about it is even those piezo drivers can sound decent...some piezos can sound really good- if you can find some Motorola drivers.

What makes them sound bad (most of the time) is the uneven sensitivity levels between them and the other drivers and the FR.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

The ones I had were $12

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## sh.moto.2 (Jul 2, 2010)

only piezo drivers that i ever heard that i liked were cd1e's after u drill the plug out


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## munkittrick (Jan 7, 2008)

First, HLCD are only as good as the driver. A poor quality driver of ANY kind will not sound as good as a high-quality driver regardless of outstanding factors. The idea that no HLCD will ever sound as good as a high-end set of conventional drivers is basically a very, very subjective statement. I'll humbly add that HLCD's of the higher orders are almost PERFECT in competitive circles. In fact, when they were reaching their peak, all but three cars in the entire IASCA top trophy winners were cars with HLCD soundstages. From my point of view, a good quality HLCD will ALWAYS outperform a conventional driver in the areas that are most important to my ears; staging, frequency range, efficiency and definition/clarity. On the other hand, to get a balanced sound that most people's ears are tuned to approve of, you'll need a very good equalizer and a lot of time to fine tune the drivers to your liking. All in all, I've owned HLCD sets for over 15 years and I have never, NEVER heard anything that got me closer to an audiophile-level home speaker system or live performance than horns.

$.02, take it or leave it.


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## Blown Mustang GT (Dec 6, 2008)

munkittrick said:


> First, HLCD are only as good as the driver. A poor quality driver of ANY kind will not sound as good as a high-quality driver regardless of outstanding factors. The idea that no HLCD will ever sound as good as a high-end set of conventional drivers is basically a very, very subjective statement. I'll humbly add that HLCD's of the higher orders are almost PERFECT in competitive circles. In fact, when they were reaching their peak, all but three cars in the entire IASCA top trophy winners were cars with HLCD soundstages. From my point of view, a good quality HLCD will ALWAYS outperform a conventional driver in the areas that are most important to my ears; staging, frequency range, efficiency and definition/clarity. On the other hand, to get a balanced sound that most people's ears are tuned to approve of, you'll need a very good equalizer and a lot of time to fine tune the drivers to your liking. All in all, I've owned HLCD sets for over 15 years and *I have never, NEVER heard anything that got me closer to an audiophile-level home speaker system or live performance than horns.*
> 
> $.02, take it or leave it.


I agree!!!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well, I would say there is a difference in drivers...but a lot of the end sound is due to the horn body itself.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Well, I would say there is a difference in drivers...but a lot of the end sound is due to the horn body itself.


and the install implementation.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Eric Stevens said:


> Horns are better at everything IMHO . They cannot replace the whole component set but they do replace a small midrange and tweeter. For best results you want to pair them with an appropriate midbass driver
> 
> *Controlled dispersion-* More direct sound energy and less reflected energy in the car environment improving staging and imaging with better clarity and tonality also. The controlled dispersion also creates much more focused images and a more realistic sound stage by helping to overcome the off center seating position, this is done with the horns cross firing dispersion pattern.
> 
> ...


Wait...Stevens Audio??? Ummmm, info???


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

stevens audio is old news


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Wait...Stevens Audio??? Ummmm, info???


Yep, when I left ID my horns designs came with me and I am selling them as Stevens Audio product.

Eric


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Eric Stevens said:


> Yep, when I left ID my horns designs came with me and I am selling them as Stevens Audio product.
> 
> Eric


Man I feel out of the loop. I replied to your PM as well.

Thanks Eric.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Man I feel out of the loop. I replied to your PM as well.
> 
> Thanks Eric.


don't feel bad i am flying low and there haven't been any big announcements. 

Eric


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