# Best materials for sound deadening



## audioi (Apr 12, 2018)

Im sure this has been covered in the past but I have seen other companies popping up as suppliers so what is todays hot setup to calm down road noise and tire noise?


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## kanadian-kaos (Sep 12, 2010)

CLICK THIS: ----->How to. 

1. Deadener 2. Closed cell foam (de coupler) 3. Mass Loaded Vinyl

Some people have also mentioned 3 thinsulate. Expensive, but seems interesting.


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## DrunkPanda (Apr 8, 2018)

Package # 1 -------- 20 Sheets of RAAMmat BXT II (37.5 sq ft) and 3 yards of Ensolite IUO Peel and Stick Foam (41.625 sq ft) - RAAMaudio Inc.

... that's what I ended up going with... there's a ton of different companies out there... some as asphalt-based (smells awful), some don't meet heat requirements of hotter climates (will melt), and some don't actually sound deaden very well... so if you find something cheaper than that... be wary


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audioi said:


> Im sure this has been covered in the past but I have seen other companies popping up as suppliers so what is todays hot setup to calm down road noise and tire noise?


Tires that make less noise are best... then you fix it at the source.
You either:
1 stop it at the source,
2 Stop it from entering the body
3 suck it up (attenuate it) from the body
4 keep it from leaving the body into the cabin's airspace.

The noise either comes through as telegraphed through the suspension, or through the air.
The whole bottom of the vehicle sees the ground, where the noise is at, like a transmission line or accoustic version of coax.

Many OEM cars have soft rubber and a lot of attention for the suspension points to isolate the wheels. If those have been replaced with ureathane or something else, then expect more noise through the steel.


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## audioi (Apr 12, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Tires that make less noise are best... then you fix it at the source.
> You either:
> 1 stop it at the source,
> 2 Stop it from entering the body
> ...



All good points! Because these tires are like new and perfectly balanced I plan to try dampening and sound proofing first, maybe I am wet dreaming thinking I can shave off 3~4 db of ambient cabin noise but I still plan to give it a go and if that fails then buy tires. Any suggestions of materials to use? Its a 981 Boxster.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audioi said:


> All good points! Because these tires are like new and perfectly balanced I plan to try dampening and sound proofing first, maybe I am wet dreaming thinking I can shave off 3~4 db of ambient cabin noise but I still plan to give it a go and if that fails then buy tires. Any suggestions of materials to use? Its a 981 Boxster.


Using a passenger with a small sound meter would give you a baseline at stopped, at idle and at 60mph.

Assuming that sound is the tyres beating against the bitumen and then impinging in the underside: one would want a material on the underside to prevent that
Products - LIQUID VIBRATION COATINGS - * MADE IN THE USA * - Spectrum Sludge™ - Second Skin Audio

Assuming it is through the suspension exciting the chassis directly then you would want to dampen the chassis:
Products - VIBRATION DAMPERS - CLD * MADE IN THE USA * - Damplifier Pro™ - Second Skin Audio

In either of the above cases isolating the chassis from the interior would help:
Luxury car quiet with our noise insulation products Luxury Liner™ Luxury Liner Pro™ | Second Skin Audio, Made in the USA.

I am no expert, so seeking guidance from a professional may be wise.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

For vibration of panels, you'd want to use your typical Dynamat type sheets.

Since your issue is tire/road noise, applying closed cell foam and covering that with mass loaded vinyl would be appropriate.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

mumbles said:


> For vibration of panels, you'd want to use your typical Dynamat type sheets.
> 
> Since your issue is tire/road noise, applying closed cell foam and covering that with mass loaded vinyl would be appropriate.


Is that right?

Do you want the dynamat on the bottom, and then the foam on top?
Or
Foam and then dynamat on top?


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

DrunkPanda said:


> Package # 1 -------- 20 Sheets of RAAMmat BXT II (37.5 sq ft) and 3 yards of Ensolite IUO Peel and Stick Foam (41.625 sq ft) - RAAMaudio Inc.
> 
> ... that's what I ended up going with... there's a ton of different companies out there... some as asphalt-based (smells awful), some don't meet heat requirements of hotter climates (will melt), and some don't actually sound deaden very well... so if you find something cheaper than that... be wary


This is a good price, but don't you need the MLV? And this looks to be enough to do a small 2 door coupe? What were your results with just this package?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Holmz said:


> Is that right?
> 
> Do you want the dynamat on the bottom, and then the foam on top?
> Or
> Foam and then dynamat on top?


CLD on substrate
Foam decoupler
MLV over that if anywhere, loose as possible

Also, I had good luck with a foil - foam - foil product called Low E, a radiant barrier. I did lots of Knu Kolossus (best deadener for my needs, and I've tried a bunch...disappointed with all the rest except for SDS tiles), then added the Low-E and used scrim tape, then laid down the factory carpet. The Low-E was much lighter than MLV, but had many of the same properties. This project was a Vette, so going MLV and weighing it down was not an option.

I've also had acceptable luck with big, thick neoprene. She ain't MLV but in thicker portions like 1/4", it still does a great job with the usual noises. 

Honestly, any steps you take toward deadening pay off pretty handsomely. I say that quality CLD like Knu Kolossus or SDS tiles are probably the most important out of all of the steps though.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

fourthmeal said:


> CLD on substrate
> Foam decoupler
> MLV over that if anywhere, loose as possible
> 
> ...


I used about 1 sq-ft of dynamat on a sports car floor (in strips) and it worked like magic.

(I would try the SDS, but I cannot seem to get enough support to know what to order... so looking here keenly)


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## audioi (Apr 12, 2018)

Holmz said:


> I used about 1 sq-ft of dynamat on a sports car floor (in strips) and it worked like magic.
> 
> (I would try the SDS, but I cannot seem to get enough support to know what to order... so looking here keenly)


Funny you say that, support... I have checked in with two different providers with zero response. Really just need an idea of what to get and pay the man, looks like we are all awaiting.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audioi said:


> Funny you say that, support... I have checked in with two different providers with zero response. Really just need an idea of what to get and pay the man, looks like we are all awaiting.


The fellow at SecondSkin was very forthcoming and patient, and they ship.
There may be better products, but knowing which to use where, seems like a good place to start.

Personally I would suggest starting with measurements of the noise level, so you have a quantifiable idea of the difference between start and finish.


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## DrunkPanda (Apr 8, 2018)

juiceweazel said:


> This is a good price, but don't you need the MLV? And this looks to be enough to do a small 2 door coupe? What were your results with just this package?


I haven't installed it yet, so I can't personally vouch for it yet. It was recommended by more than one person here for sound deadening... I'm sure one of them can vouch for that particular product based off results... I may add MLV later if I'm not satisfied with it, but I don't anticipate it being a mandatory addition. For the price, it's heavy as hell and appears to be a quality product and an excellent start point. That kit should be plenty for the doors/trunk in a full-size sedan with a bit left over for random rattles.

Do note that there are people that overkill the holy hell out of sound deadening without a discernable improvement to road noise beyond doing the basics. 35% coverage in the right places is enough to significantly decrease road noise/rattling... it's much more about placement, material, and installation than it is about getting some absurd coverage ratio with CLD.

Regardless, you have to draw a line somewhere or you'll spend thousands trying to get rid of that last imperceptible-on-the-road decibel. I'd say adding MLV to that kit would do you well unless you're concerned with the added weight on your Boxster. But then again, sound deadening is almost by definition adding weight lol... other than foam to fix random rattling directly

SDS and Second Skin are the high-end options if you don't care about the money and want "the best". The Raamaudio stuff is on par with Dynamat quality from what I can tell.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Did I read correctly, that the car in question is a 981 Boxter? If so, keep in mind that no matter how well you treat the car, it is a convertible. Even with the soft top up, you'll be dealing with a lot of wind/road noise. 

That being said, if you are going to rip your interior out to do sound treatment, do it once. The last thing you'll want to do is come back two and three times to pull the interior to add a layer of ccf, mlv, etc.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Did I read correctly, that the car in question is a 981 Boxter? If so, keep in mind that no matter how well you treat the car, it is a convertible. Even with the soft top up, you'll be dealing with a lot of wind/road noise.
> 
> That being said, if you are going to rip your interior out to do sound treatment, do it once. The last thing you'll want to do is come back two and three times to pull the interior to add a layer of ccf, mlv, etc.


He didn't say what car it was in this thread that I can tell. Maybe a different thread?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

fourthmeal said:


> He didn't say what car it was in this thread that I can tell. Maybe a different thread?


Rough day. I thought you were right, and I was losing it. 



audioi said:


> All good points! Because these tires are like new and perfectly balanced I plan to try dampening and sound proofing first, maybe I am wet dreaming thinking I can shave off 3~4 db of ambient cabin noise but I still plan to give it a go and if that fails then buy tires. Any suggestions of materials to use? *Its a 981 Boxster.*


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## 04quadcab (Dec 31, 2017)

Holmz said:


> Personally I would suggest starting with measurements of the noise level, so you have a quantifiable idea of the difference between start and finish.


I am a big fan of measurement. I started a thread here where I am detailing my experience trying to silence a 14 year old truck.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...sion/380538-beating-soun-dead-ener-horse.html

I have a window of opportunity in May, during that time the seats and carpet are coming out. So far I have only CLD'ed the doors. This had a very small impact on good roads, but it did a lot more on crappy roads. But, the crappy roads are still much worse than the good ones. I took a trip this weekend, fresh new pavement on the way there, harsh old pavement on the way back. 

I used KnoKnoise CLD. I am happy with the product. But I like the way the doors close with a nice solid thunk. I ordered my MLV from Amazon, the seller was "IsoStore." The product arrived damaged. Interestingly enough the 100' roll was just under $200 when I bought it. For some reason it is cheaper now -- as is the next best competitor. I got the rest of my material from SDS and I am very happy with it.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Holmz said:


> Is that right?
> 
> Do you want the dynamat on the bottom, and then the foam on top?
> Or
> Foam and then dynamat on top?


We may be talking about two different things... Normal course would be to dynamat (CLD) to reduce panel vibration. If you want to go further towards reducing incoming road noise, then you would apply foam on top of the CLD and finally MLV on top of that... hope this makes more sense.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Rough day. I thought you were right, and I was losing it.


Wow and I even ctl-f searched. I bet I spelled wrong.


Anyway,

if a convertible, consider the Low-E type of deadening w/ copious amounts of Knu Kolossus. Here it is https://www.amazon.com/Low-Reflecti...6954&sr=8-1&keywords=ESP+Low-E+Insulation+Inc. and it is NOT MLV, but the foil did a great to exceptional job cooling down the Vette's interior, and the extraneous road noise. Here's an action shot











So in that build, I used a box of Knu Kolossus, and quite a bit of the Low-E, and it turned out pretty great. MLV would be better, but it is kinda pointless in targas and convertibles, especially if weight is a bad idea.


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

DrunkPanda said:


> I haven't installed it yet, so I can't personally vouch for it yet. It was recommended by more than one person here for sound deadening... I'm sure one of them can vouch for that particular product based off results... I may add MLV later if I'm not satisfied with it, but I don't anticipate it being a mandatory addition. For the price, it's heavy as hell and appears to be a quality product and an excellent start point. That kit should be plenty for the doors/trunk in a full-size sedan with a bit left over for random rattles.
> 
> Do note that there are people that overkill the holy hell out of sound deadening without a discernable improvement to road noise beyond doing the basics. 35% coverage in the right places is enough to significantly decrease road noise/rattling... it's much more about placement, material, and installation than it is about getting some absurd coverage ratio with CLD.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. Reading other people's build logs, MLV over top of everything else is almost a have to in here. I kind of wonder if some cheap linoleum flooring would do close to the same thing? I mean it's a vinyl barrier right? I know it sounds like a ******* solution but if it works why not?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

juiceweazel said:


> I kind of wonder if some cheap linoleum flooring would do close to the same thing? I mean it's a vinyl barrier right? I know it sounds like a ******* solution but if it works why not?


I have no problems with innovation or even *******, but it is NOT the "Vinyl" part of MLV that is important in stopping noise transmission, but rather the "Mass Loaded" part.

IOW, material density is what stops noise, not necessarily the material itself.
So pick up a piece of cheap linoleum flooring and then the same size pice of MLV and you will be able to tell for yourself how well it will work by its weight, not even its thickness. That is why before MLV was manufactured, lead sheeting used to be the standard for stopping noise transmission...it can be thin, flexible and WAY more dense then even MLV.


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## kanadian-kaos (Sep 12, 2010)

juiceweazel said:


> Thanks for the input. Reading other people's build logs, MLV over top of everything else is almost a have to in here. I kind of wonder if some cheap linoleum flooring would do close to the same thing? I mean it's a vinyl barrier right? I know it sounds like a ******* solution but if it works why not?


Have you ever worked with linoleum? Not very flexible and it cracks. Not that heavy either. Don't waste your time with it. You would have to put too many layers to have any effect.


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

kanadian-kaos said:


> Have you ever worked with linoleum? Not very flexible and it cracks. Not that heavy either. Don't waste your time with it. You would have to put too many layers to have any effect.





seafish said:


> I have no problems with innovation or even *******, but it is NOT the "Vinyl" part of MLV that is important in stopping noise transmission, but rather the "Mass Loaded" part.
> 
> IOW, material density is what stops noise, not necessarily the material itself.
> So pick up a piece of cheap linoleum flooring and then the same size pice of MLV and you will be able to tell for yourself how well it will work by its weight, not even its thickness. That is why before MLV was manufactured, lead sheeting used to be the standard for stopping noise transmission...it can be thin, flexible and WAY more dense then even MLV.


I figured as much. Just wanted to see if anyone had tried it.
Not saying I'd want to install lead, but man I'd like to see the difference between a lead wall & MLV wall :laugh:.


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## audioi (Apr 12, 2018)

Just got a great response from Second Skin and will be giving them a call.


Thanks for your interest in Second Skin!
There is not one product that will work for every application, which is why you see so many products on our website.

Below is an itemized recommendation for your 2013 Porsche. Also we have 2 packages that may help you, the Small Build Package would be enough product to cover 36 sqft (which would be the floor of your vehicle) , or the Medium Build Package would have enough product to cover 54 sqft (floor plus trunk/cargo area). With so many makes and models out there we have found after 18 years custom fit doesn’t work as planned, so cutting the material for each vehicle is much more cost effective. There is not one product that will work for every application, which is why you see so many products on our website.

My suggestion is to follow this 2 step plan:
This is how it would work out for your 2013 Porsche Boxster:
Step 1 - Interior vibration damping
Apply a layer of Damplifier or Damplifier Pro to the interior of the cars sheet metal (under the carpet, doors, floor, trunk, firewall, ceiling, behind the upholstery, and most importantly, directly behind the noisy spots)
* Your vehicle can use 40-60 sq feet depending on how detailed you want to get. Our Spectrum liquid sound insulation will produce the same results when built up to 3MM. 1 gallon covers 10 sqft with 3MM thickness (2-3 coats).


Step 2- Interior Noise Barriers (Needed to address the tire noise and exhaust noise)
Apply a layer of Luxury Liner Pro on top of the vibration mat to block stubborn airborne noise (this will make a tremendous difference with the goals you listed) The Porsche doors are usually thinner then normal doors so we don’t use Luxury Liner Pro in there as the second layer, for your doors I would recommend the Over Kill used in the door panels on top of the vibration mat.
* You can use between 4 & 6 sheets + 1 can of adhesive for every 4 sheets you use

These 2 steps are the base foundation for the sound deadnening and thermal control. Both noise, and heat will be reduced by a very large margin!
If you want to take your install a step further, you can do this:

Step 3 – Exterior Vibration Coating
Treat the underside of the vehicles floor pan and wheel wells with a hefty layer of Spectrum or Sludge, our noise and vibration coatings. This will sandwich the floor with the interior damping mats and will yield amazing results.
* You can use 2 or 3 gallons to properly treat the underside of the floor and wheel wells
For the ceiling or under the hood install Damplifier Pro or Spectrum and then add Heat Wave Pro (Ceiling/Hood/Firewall)., Mega Zorbe (Ceiling) or Mega Block (Hood/Firewall). 
For panels that are rattling use OverKill or OverKill pro installed between them, this will create a perfect cushion.

The 3 step plan is by far the best way to handle the issues you laid out in the email you sent us. Nothing else in the industry can touch this combination of products, but the first 2 steps is plenty, and will yield amazing results!

Not only will your ride be made insanely quiet, it will also be insulated from extreme temperatures, and will feel more solid as you drive it.

Feel free to call me with any questions:

I will be happy to set aside some time to discuss your project further.

Eric


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## criddopher (Apr 3, 2011)

I just installed the noico 80- mil, with noico closed cell foam and the MLV thats on amazon. It all seemed like good product. I've not listened to the ride after but my buddy whos car it is says the road noise dropped drastically 

I did experience the noico it seems to have killed any vibrations. I did also use butyl rope on literally anything that could rattle. 

Personally I would use SDS or knu 100mil. Judging from the tests done a while back those two do the best. IMO the graph looked like KNU did best for sound. I would not skip the MLV if road noise is your main problem. MLV is the product that fixes that, the rest just helps with rattles, deadner kills some noise but not much.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

criddopher said:


> I just installed the noico 80- mil, with noico closed cell foam and the MLV thats on amazon. It all seemed like good product. I've not listened to the ride after but my buddy whos car it is says the road noise dropped drastically
> 
> I did experience the noico it seems to have killed any vibrations. I did also use butyl rope on literally anything that could rattle.
> 
> Personally I would use SDS or knu 100mil. Judging from the tests done a while back those two do the best. IMO the graph looked like KNU did best for sound. I would not skip the MLV if road noise is your main problem. MLV is the product that fixes that, the rest just helps with rattles, deadner kills some noise but not much.



Noico (80mil) CLD and products in that same performance level are vastly under-performing compared with a product like Knu Kolossus, I've learned first-hand. I went forward with Noico after running out of Kolossus, for my WRX build. It isn't as sticky, and certainly not as effective. I kept with using it but really what I should have done was return it (Amazon FTW), and buy my damn Kolossus. Because now I have a slightly heavier car that still rattles. If I keep the car for a while, I'll probably rip the trunk apart and do it over to get the desired final result. Other Noico stuff may be nice, but I can't speak about it because I've not ordered it. 

Reckhorn also gave identical (disappointing) results. 

SDS is top notch, I just order Knu because it is convenient, comes in a day for me, etc.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

audioi said:


> maybe I am wet dreaming thinking I can shave off 3~4 db of ambient cabin noise but I still plan to give it a go and if that fails then buy tires.


Cleaning up 3-4 dB of ambient noise is easily doable with the right layers of high quality products. 

Check out this Porsche install for tips.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

criddopher said:


> I just installed the noico 80- mil, with noico closed cell foam and the MLV thats on amazon. It all seemed like good product. I've not listened to the ride after but my buddy whos car it is says the road noise dropped drastically
> 
> I did experience the noico it seems to have killed any vibrations. I did also use butyl rope on literally anything that could rattle.
> 
> Personally I would use SDS or knu 100mil. Judging from the tests done a while back those two do the best. IMO the graph looked like KNU did best for sound. I would not skip the MLV if road noise is your main problem. MLV is the product that fixes that, the rest just helps with rattles, deadner kills some noise but not much.



Have a link to the MLV you ordered?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

criddopher said:


> I just installed the noico 80- mil, with noico closed cell foam and the MLV thats on amazon. It all seemed like good product. I've not listened to the ride after but my buddy whos car it is says the road noise dropped drastically
> ...


What are we suppose to do with ^this^?
A judge would band the gavel as that is more like hearsay than actual evidence.

This is why I like before and after measurements as a way to get to truth and remove subjective impressions.

If one only gets 3 dB I would be surprised unless it was really good before they started.
Luckily mine have been so loud almost anything would improve them.


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## Hein_ (Jul 27, 2015)

audioi said:


> Im sure this has been covered in the past but I have seen other companies popping up as suppliers so what is todays hot setup to calm down road noise and tire noise?


Search ebay for 3M automotive grade Thinsulate(TM) acoustic/thermal insulation.

SM600L single scrim 1.75" thick
SM400L single scrim 1" thick
AU4002-5 double scrim 1" thick (high temp for in engine compartment)
TAI-1547 5/16" thick double embossed


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

When I did my car I used CLD, CCF, MLV, Thinsulate and melamine foam. I followed the install advice at: https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

I did do some measurement of the before and after and there was a noticeable difference in outside noise, mid-bass and the subjective overall enjoyment of listening to music in my car was better. IMO melamine foam is a good (and inexpensive) substitute for Thinsulate but the foam needs to be treated with a hydrophobic spray for single pieces or wrapped in a thin plastic sheet for larger areas. Wrapping does not effect the qualities of the foam...at least not that I could tell.

For Thinsulate: https://www.ebay.com/itm/141960802013

For Melamine Foam: https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-20-50-1...id=p2334524.m570.l1312.R1.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.TRS1

For Hydrophobic spray: https://ultrahydrophobiccoating.com...obic-coating-turns-woolen-sweater-waterproof/


D.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

UltraTouch Recycled Denim and Corning 703 are also good materials where water exposure is not a concern.


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