# best sub enclosure for rock music



## dubtunner

Hey, so I have a question for you all. Currently I have an entry level pioneer 12, in a sealed enclosure. I am driving it with a briged 450 watt amp.

The enclosure is partical board and starting to come apart. I want to make a new one but I wanted some advice. 

Which enclosure do you think would be the best for someone who listens to rock music. I am thinking about building a ported enclosure and using some dead space in the side of my trunk. 

would it be better to use a sealed enclosure, or a ported box. The trunk is sealed really well, and there is dynamat layed down. 

my current box sounds ok, but there are times when it sounds flat or tinny. I dont know if its cause the sub is hitting to quick, or if its just a bad box. it sounds pretty good when I listen to R&B. 

also the trunk deck is vented from the factory into the car itself. any help you could provide would be great. I am just getting into this whole thing so I am pretty inexperienced.


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## BaaH268

You will probably want a sealed box for rock music because sealed gives you more of a punch then ported.It wouldn't matter either way. You could still make a ported box and if tuned right could sound awesome with the right tuning frequency.

I would also suggest not using particle board next time. Doesn't seem to be very strong.


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## Reedlom

I agree with BaaH268 - you will probably prefer a sealed enclosure to a ported enclosure unless you are seeking high SPL. I suggest 3/4" mdf for the enclosure. Glue it and screw it!


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## chad

BaaH268 said:


> You will probably want a sealed box for rock music because sealed gives you more of a punch then ported.It wouldn't matter either way. You could still make a ported box and if tuned right could sound awesome with the right tuning frequency.
> 
> I would also suggest not using particle board next time. Doesn't seem to be very strong.





Reedlom said:


> I agree with BaaH268 - you will probably prefer a sealed enclosure to a ported enclosure unless you are seeking high SPL. I suggest 3/4" mdf for the enclosure. Glue it and screw it!


You guys are most certainly new here.

This is just not the case and a PROPERLY designed vented enclosure will actually kick ass with rock music. there have been MANY sealed/vented discussions, I recommend you search around for them and make your decision based on that versus the street knowledge that "sealed enclosures are tighter"


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## nineball

chad said:


> You guys are most certainly new here.


hell, they only have 11 posts between them


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## chithead

I listen to a lot of older AC/DC and it absolutely slams on vented boxes. Especially You Shook Me All Night Long, Thunderstruck, and Whole Lotta Rosie


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## suds1228

chithead said:


> I listen to a lot of older AC/DC and it absolutely slams on vented boxes. Especially You Shook Me All Night Long, Thunderstruck, and Whole Lotta Rosie


Agreed. I have listened to many, many vented systems and when properly matched and tuned they are tight, deep and musical. I use sealed enclosures simply due to the smaller space req.


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## BaaH268

Thats my bad. I said a ported box can do just as good as sealed if done right I just didn't go into depth about it. And yes I don't have much experience with ported boxes so I am still partial to sealed.


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## chad

BaaH268 said:


> Thats my bad. I said a ported box can do just as good as sealed if done right I just didn't go into depth about it. And yes I don't have much experience with ported boxes so I am still partial to sealed.


We will change you  Just wait:laugh:


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## chithead

chad said:


> We will change you  Just wait:laugh:


That is the truth... just bought my first DIYMA R12 this week... Can't wait to get it installed. But still much more for grasshoppas like me to learn...


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## dubtunner

Thanks guys I appreciate it. my current box came from my brother in-law. I hate particle board too. however if I wait long enough, it looks like my sealed box might port itself. of course it looks like I have been chipping wood in my trunk. I have heard some beautiful ported enclosures, thats what makes me lean towards that.

another question, I get some distortion on my mids in my rear deck, I am thinking about building some fiberglass cups for them to set in, to help protect them from all the air moving in the trunk space. or do you think that I should just pickup some better mids?


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## Strugglewithin

I'm going to be building a sealed enclosure for two 12's this weekend. I am currently using a store bought ported band pass enclosure with one 12 and I hate it. I realize that part of that hate is because it's a pre-made enclosure that designed for "a" 12 and not specific to "my" 12. I just dont like the way it sounds for most (not all) of the music I play. I'm going to make the sealed enclosure and run it for a while and if the results aren't where I want them, then I'll make a vented enclosure and see what that does.


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## ender

suds1228 said:


> Agreed. I have listened to many, many vented systems and when properly matched and tuned they are tight, deep and musical. I use sealed enclosures simply due to the smaller space req.


I love the fact that people are finally starting to realize that when done right ported/vented system will rock the hell out of sealed systems in both sq and spl. I will agree that most ported systems that people are running do sound sloppy as hell but that is mainly because they just get a prefab box and toss it in the trunk  . So make sure you get the design right because ported box are very sensitive to inner volume, port size, ect. If you want to build the box yourself I am sure there are plenty of people that will help you out with what materials to go with ( I don't want to start the MDF birch debate), what tools you are going to need, and even help out with a design for it. Ask around, pretty much everyone on this forum know what they are talking about and are more than willing to help a fellow audio freak. My recommendation for your initial question, Build your own ported/vented box and have some fun trying something new.


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## chad

Bears repeating



ender said:


> I love the fact that people are finally starting to realize that when done right ported/vented system will rock the hell out of sealed systems in both sq and spl. I will agree that most ported systems that people are running do sound sloppy as hell but that is mainly because they just get a prefab box and toss it in the trunk  . So make sure you get the design right because ported box are very sensitive to inner volume, port size, ect. If you want to build the box yourself I am sure there are plenty of people that will help you out with what materials to go with ( I don't want to start the MDF birch debate), what tools you are going to need, and even help out with a design for it. Ask around, pretty much everyone on this forum know what they are talking about and are more than willing to help a fellow audio freak. My recommendation for your initial question, Build your own ported/vented box and have some fun trying something new.


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## Strugglewithin

ender said:


> I love the fact that people are finally starting to realize that when done right ported/vented system will rock the hell out of sealed systems in both sq and spl. I will agree that most ported systems that people are running do sound sloppy as hell but that is mainly because they just get a prefab box and toss it in the trunk  . So make sure you get the design right because ported box are very sensitive to inner volume, port size, ect. If you want to build the box yourself I am sure there are plenty of people that will help you out with what materials to go with ( I don't want to start the MDF birch debate), what tools you are going to need, and even help out with a design for it. Ask around, pretty much everyone on this forum know what they are talking about and are more than willing to help a fellow audio freak. My recommendation for your initial question, Build your own ported/vented box and have some fun trying something new.




I just havent heard enough from vented enclosures. I've not ever really been "into" car audio to consider myself in any way "in the know" about much of it. I do know that I hate my current set up. Even before my Pioneer amp crapped out and I had to go to this hand me down chump thing that I have now I didnt care for the way it sounded. Rather, it didnt sound how I felt like it should have. The punch on rock music just isnt there like I would prefer it.

I do want to built a good vented enclosure for my two 12's (that are on the way) in the next few months and see if I like it better than the sealed one I'm about to be building.
I have to find out all the need to knows for making a vented one though. There's more to it than a sealed setup. And I want to do it myself because that's more than half the fun.


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## thegeck

Vented boxes will always take a couple of tries to get it right...not just because of you car but to find what sounds good to you. But when the are dialed in right they have advantages.


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## cheesehead

dubtunner said:


> Thanks guys I appreciate it. my current box came from my brother in-law. I hate particle board too. however if I wait long enough, it looks like my sealed box might port itself. of course it looks like I have been chipping wood in my trunk. I have heard some beautiful ported enclosures, thats what makes me lean towards that.
> 
> another question, I get some distortion on my mids in my rear deck, I am thinking about building some fiberglass cups for them to set in, to help protect them from all the air moving in the trunk space. or do you think that I should just pickup some better mids?


Do a search for VBA (violent bass air).



















































J/K

Well you can search for it if you need to kill some time!


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## snaimpally

Use a vented/ported enclosure. Use WinISD software (its free) to determine the size of your enclosure and the size of the port. A well designed ported enclosure will give you more low end extension and louder bass output for the same amount of power. It is a myth that sealed enclosures are "accurate" and vented enclosures are only meant for SPL. The main thing is that you have the box properly designed and built.

I have a pair of Kef 103/4 speakers in my home. They are ported speakers. These speakers have been extensively reviewed and they are considered very acurate speakers.

In terms of particle board/MDF, you don't mention how thick it is and how it was built. Use 3/8" and use wood glue on all the joints. Use screws to hold things together (mainly to allow the glue to dry). Use plenty of glue and you shouldn't have any problems. e.g. Run a bead of glue around each of the joints inside the enclosure.

Have a look at Chad's thread on his ported Dayton 10" HO.


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## CAPO

ahhh i think you could go with something like a Magnum. very punchy. Rock dosent bear the long blaring bass notes like rap so in my application i have an avalanche. Love it have 2 actually one is still in the box.


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## MarkG

Is 3/8" MDF strong enough? I've never built a box out of anything less than 3/4" but I need all the cubic inches and mounting depth I can get out of my new truck install. I was thinking 1/2" but if 3/8" MDF will do it, I will reconsider. Thanks.

Wait - this new box will most likely be a ported, so there's less pressure compared to sealed, right? This is for a Dayton HO 10" powered by a JL Audio 500/1. I've got plenty of room under the rear bench for a long port, but only about 5-5.5" of depth and thinner material will help.


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## chad

a vented box can actually exceed sealed box pressures.


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## 89grand

MarkG said:


> Is 3/8" MDF strong enough? I've never built a box out of anything less than 3/4" but I need all the cubic inches and mounting depth I can get out of my new truck install. I was thinking 1/2" but if 3/8" MDF will do it, I will reconsider. Thanks.
> 
> Wait - this new box will most likely be a ported, so there's less pressure compared to sealed, right? This is for a Dayton HO 10" powered by a JL Audio 500/1. I've got plenty of room under the rear bench for a long port, but only about 5-5.5" of depth and thinner material will help.


3/8" sounds pretty thin. By the time you brace the **** out of it, It'll take more room than using 3/4".


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## MarkG

Thanks guys, I'll bump up to 5/8" MDF and probably a 3/4" baffle.


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## Cerberus2k7

I've actually found this thread to be pretty informative.  I was dead set on having a sealed setup with some IDQs. Heard a vented box with them, but they sounded like ass. He got the box from Best Buy which I guess would be the reason for the crappy quality.


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## soundlevel

the entry level pioneer subs are not very musical, try image dynamics idqv3 or diamond audio d3 sub in a 3/4 mdf sealed 1.75 foot enclosure stuffed with poly fill, for some nice results


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## tann808

soundlevel said:


> the entry level pioneer subs are not very musical, try image dynamics idqv3 or diamond audio d3 sub in a 3/4 mdf sealed 1.75 foot enclosure stuffed with poly fill, for some nice results


I agree, I would look into some ID or Alumapros for a more musically and accurate sub.


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## lust4sound

chad said:


> You guys are most certainly new here.
> 
> This is just not the case and a PROPERLY designed vented enclosure will actually kick ass with rock music. there have been MANY sealed/vented discussions, I recommend you search around for them and make your decision based on that versus the street knowledge that "sealed enclosures are tighter"


Listen to Chad. Respect the man for he truly knows his ****.. Just ask him about his background..

As for rock music, I have found that it is more about the midbass than anything.

Put much emphasis on a serious midbass section and front stage. Don't rely on subs. Get your front stage right, then dial in the subs for ultra low bottom end re inforcement.. 

Consider Pro Audio drivers with a usable range down to 50HZ, high sensitivity. If done right, you will need little power for them, get mids and highs to match and they will give you serious detail and punch, you will hear sticks hitting the drumskins, kickdrums will sound like they are in the passenger seat, snare drums will pop.. On vocals, you can hear the singers lip smacking.. None of this hurts the ears.. That's just me..


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## Fixtion

chithead said:


> That is the truth... just bought my first DIYMA R12 this week... Can't wait to get it installed. But still much more for grasshoppas like me to learn...


wait until you buy your first peerless xxls. *;]*


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## chithead

Fixtion said:


> wait until you buy your first peerless xxls. *;]*


Ah... those have been in my eyes for quite some time now... The EHQS aren't going to last as long as I thought they would...


Whoops, thought you were talking about their 8" speakers for my doors.


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## GeddyLee

From having had both sealed and ported boxes now, I can attest that too that a good ported box can make a big difference. The box I am currently using is supposidly tuned to around 40-44 range. And the bass response out of it is incredible. I went from having one sealed 12" Rockford Punch to two 10" Power Acoustics (yeah I know people are gonna slam me for those, but I actually like them) in an Audio Dymanics ported enclosure. 

I went from this...........










To this.......










The subbox is made of 3/4" MDF board and is solid throughout (solid meaning very well built). It gives great tightness where it is needed in many rock/metal songs. I had always been in the mindset as well that sealed boxes were better for rock/metal type music, but when I got this enclosure, it changed my mind completely!


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## tann808

tuned to 40 - 44hz???? I hope you have your subsonic filters set correctly.


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## GeddyLee

tann808 said:


> tuned to 40 - 44hz???? I hope you have your subsonic filters set correctly.


I guess I should clarify a bit more. The guys at Dynamic Audio said the box was tuned for a range between 40-44. They said their ported box was designed to work almost as similar to that of a sealed box. 

I am still learning all this stuff, so my lack of knowledge shines, I do know that I currently have the mono amp set low to avoid any issues until I can get the amp properly tuned to the sub box and subs. 

Sorry for mistating what I was trying to say.......


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## el_chupo_

GeddyLee said:


> I guess I should clarify a bit more. The guys at Dynamic Audio said the box was tuned for a range between 40-44. They said their ported box was designed to work almost as similar to that of a sealed box.
> 
> I am still learning all this stuff, so my lack of knowledge shines, I do know that I currently have the mono amp set low to avoid any issues until I can get the amp properly tuned to the sub box and subs.
> 
> Sorry for mistating what I was trying to say.......


A tuning of 44 hz will not sound like a sealed box below the tuning... Ported boxes have a steep roll off after tuning, giving you much less volume below the tuning frequency. 

What he is saying is that there is music that goes lower than 44 hz, so if you have a tuning of 44hz you need to have your sub sonic filter set so your sub doesnt try to play those notes loudly, ruining stuff. He isnt talking about properly tuning the subs, he is talking about protecting them.


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## lust4sound

el_chupo_ said:


> A tuning of 44 hz will not sound like a sealed box below the tuning... Ported boxes have a steep roll off after tuning, giving you much less volume below the tuning frequency.
> 
> What he is saying is that there is music that goes lower than 44 hz, so if you have a tuning of 44hz you need to have your sub sonic filter set so your sub doesnt try to play those notes loudly, ruining stuff. He isnt talking about properly tuning the subs, he is talking about protecting them.


 If your subs are specced to perform best in that tuning range, if your box is actually tuned to that frequency, then in addition to protecting your speakers from unnecessary excursion and wasted energy (amp delivering power to subs in a bandwidth not being heard = wasted energy and potentially damaging) add a subsonic and you will probably pick up a bit more impact as well as saving your subs.. Once you have implemented a subsonic and set it just below the 44HZ your box is supposedly at, you should be able to feel a bit more impact..

Check the sub specs, some subs play an octave below recommended tuning.. Solobarics for example, I think FS is 29 or 27, tuning of 32HZ is recommended, subsonic @24HZ. Thats the setup for large vented enclosure and deep ground pounding bass. I tried this with a pair of Solobaric 15L7s in a 6 CF tuned to 32HZ subsonic @ 24. After a good break in period, I cranked the volume and the low end was ludicrous. It could be heard from down the block, sounded like a rock concert. I had 2700 watts to them, if I disabled the subsonic, the subs would immediately respond with flutter and bottoming out.. With subsonic on, I could slam the subs with smooth velvety strokes and in order to hear my front stage, I had to shut them off..

Then I moved onto 12W7s... Still work best with subsonic, and that's in a sealed box (6 CF leaky)


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## tann808

Thanks guys!

GeddyLee, sorry, I didn't mean to come off like that, like el_chupo_ and lust4sounds said, I just hope you are setting your subsonic filter correctly, you could do some major damage to your equipment if you're not careful.

Bass Safely!!!

Tanner


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## Brian10962001

Here's my words of wisdom on the subject.

1. Once you download and figure out how to use Win ISD the world of subwoofer enclosures will change drastically for you. You will most likely never again build a sealed enclosure, vented/ported (its the same thing btw) will be your new reference point and it you may get more complex from there. 

2. PLANNING PLANNING PLANNING. Draw an actual draft of what you want to make out and do the math 3 times over. Panel A has to fit inside panel B and there will be X amount of distance taken up by the board thickness. Make sure to draw everything out and have a double checked build sheet before you start anything.

3. Wood glue, it's your best friend. Caulk or other glues has no real place in an enclosure except for the very final insurance seal. Every joint should be thoroughly wood glued. Also if you have a crack, wood glue mixed with saw dust packed into it will harden and work better to seal it than most anything else (MDF is basically sawdust and glue). 

4. 3/4in or thicker MDF. Don't cheap out and use OSB or other substitutes. You can get away with it, but you'll regret it in the long run. Find a place that carries 3/4in MDF and have them do the cuts if they will. Trust me .50 cents a cut on the very precise stand up saw is well worth it in the long run.


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