# Upfront Smooth bass response? My solution: Morel MW265



## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

I have been searching for impactful real sounding midbass/sub bass for what seems like an eternity. You see in my vehicle (2010 Toyota Rav4), I get a large suck out between 60 and 70 Hertz that I was having issues with the sub and midbass just didn't want to play with any authority. It made kick drums sound just weak and rather poppy for the lack of a better term. I have come to the conclusion after doing several different tests that this is due to a room node/null caused by the sub that runs the width of the cabin right where both front seat passengers sit. 

I have been told there are pretty much only two ways of battling this really. 1. Move the sub and 2. distribute the load to multiple drivers that can play these frequencies better. Well, in my setup the first option is just not an option as I would lose my stealth factor and chew up a ton of cargo space in doing so. So, I kind of focused on the 2nd method. I did not add more drivers but instead moved to a driver that should be able to play these frequencies easier. The driver I ended up choosing was the Morel MW265. My first choice was the Dynaudio mw182 but sadly (in the beginning) it was about 1 cm too wide to go in my doors and keep the stock look of the door panels. I did get to hear these Morel drivers when I was down in Florida and when Madisound decided to discount them by almost 50% each recently, I jumped on a pair - less than $200 shipped to me directly. Hell of a deal!

I will not lie, I had my doubts that these would be an answer. I was really concerned that the x-max was half (3 mm to 6 mm) what my previous drivers were (Hertz ML165) and the sensitivity was supposedly 3 db lower on the Morel drivers. All of the other specs on these drivers are perfect for my ib setup in my doors however. Another problem I had was that I did not have anything to cut metal for this job. One call to my local installer that I use for stuff I either can't do or just plain don't want to do and I was set. It cost me $200 but it was worth it. They did an excellent job of cutting the baffle, the metal of the door and afixing the new drivers to my doors. They couldn't get them completely flush to the metal however and tried to get another $250 or so out of me for fiberglassing to get a perfect seal on the metal of the door. I balked at that. I had a much cheaper method in mind and the fact noone will ever see these beauties behind the door panels made my decision easy. I used some of this stuff to seal up the holes:


















It is called Duct seal and I got it from my local HD for about $3.50. I only used about half of it actually in sealing both midbasses completely. Sure beats being out another couple hun for this. Here are some shots of the job completed:









Up close:


















And all buttoned up like they are now:









Now, my impressions of these compared to what I had before? Absolutely NO comparison! These things are absolute monsters in my doors. I had my midbass set to 63 Hertz 24 db slope before and had the sub set to 70 Hertz 24 db slope before. Even with that, I had about a 5 db dip from about 60-70 Hertz. The biggest thing I hated before was the old midbass went absolutely crazy starting at about 250 Hertz. I had to drop the midbass by a full 12 db there and there was still a bump there in the response. I battled this with running the midranges out of phase which was causing a cancellation there that helped alot. I thought that was a good solution. Boy was I wrong. My new midbasses absolutely do not seem to have the same 'issue'. I am now running everything in phase once again and only drop about 4-5 db in the 250 Hertz range and I am actually crossing higher than the Hertz now too. It sounds alot nicer and I am picking up details I never heard before in the midbass. I absolutely was not expecting this at all. Huge bonus! I did have to eq out a bit more than before in the 80 and 100 Hertz range as these things really do put out some bass. I am now also crossing the midbass and sub at 55 Hz-24 db slope on both. Everything is up front unlike before which is awesome too. I did do a quick rta reading on the setup too and there is a small dip at 67 Hertz but it is only about 3 db and only over about a 7 Hertz or so range now. In 1/3 octave setting, it is perfectly smooth from 20 Hz up to 100 Hz. I was very impressed. So far, this might just be the best $200 I have spent on car audio yet. I only wonder why I took so long to do this.

The drivers are still breaking in too which I am surprised by actually. Hard to believe these things might actually produce even more bass down the road. I am also able to crank it up quite a bit louder than before without the door panels starting to rattle and buzz. I was actually able to crank it almost full boar on the driver's side with no weird noises that I could tell. I do have a nasty rattle/buzz on the passenger side I will need to track down when I get some more time. The only other issue, is a much more serious one however. I now have flashing light syndrome on heavy bass songs when I crank it up. I never once had this issue before. These things are most definitely liking the power alot more than the Hertz drivers did. They are actually begging for more apparently.:laugh: I think I need a new battery soon anyways so I'll likely try that first. I did find a nice high output alternator that I might go with down the road too (moves output from 160 amp to 340 amp if I recall). I would also do the big 3 at that time even if I was told I don't need it.

Anyways, sorry for the long read, I hope it has helped out a few that might be looking at these drivers and/or having the same issue that I was with up front bass/sub-midbass integration. They sure seem to have worked for me anyways.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Sorry for the pics not turning out. I went back and added in the links to the pics. Does anyone else hate photobuckets new setup?


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## jhnkvn (Mar 26, 2011)

You're not alone in hating Photobucket. I'm thinking of jumping over to imageshack for a while now..


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## boom_squid_2 (Jan 29, 2008)

Nice review mate! Love seeing rav4 installs, got a 03 myself.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

boom_squid_2 said:


> Nice review mate! Love seeing rav4 installs, got a 03 myself.


I know my review was not as technical as some guys on here but I'm glad that someone is enjoying it. I will probably see if I can get some rta measurements saved so I can post them here. I only have one tnat is of the entire system. I might still post that to show the now nice and smooth bass transition going on.

With the number of Rav4s on the road today, I am surprised there are not more stereo installs being done. The big storage compartment in the back is perfect for hiding alot of equipment like I am doing. I have a 12 inch sub and two amplifiers back there and there is still room for storage around the box. It's a shame the vehicle wasn't a little longer however. I feel it might be a little too close to square dimensions which might be contributing to the sub bass issues I have had (room node).


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Glad you found something that worked for you.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> Glad you found something that worked for you.


Thanks Jerry. I really wanted to buy from you for those mw182 but they just wouldn't fit without modifying the door panel. I actually thought I was not going to be impressed enough with these Morels and end up getting the mw182 from you anyway and having to mod the door panel or something. Boy was I wrong about these drivers. I am quite impressed so far. I'm sure I'll get to buy something from you sometime down the road. It would be nice to help out someone that has been so helpful to me. 

On another note, I reposted the pics through imageshack and they are showing correctly now. I should of used them the first time. I'll remember that next time.

I will try to get some rta plots of these speakers in the coming days so stay tuned those who like those kinds of things


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

No problem. I am glad those worked out for you. It is better to get something than can fit with ease of installation as well!


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

jhnkvn said:


> You're not alone in hating Photobucket. I'm thinking of jumping over to imageshack for a while now..


I like tinypic.com for image uploading.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

james, nicely done! i bet they do sound great. they do look huge in the door panels and you have shown what it takes to make it work, thanks.
i have these on my short list now but i am going to try to use the dayton rs180s first. i calculated our door's volume to be approx. 2 cuft and modeled many speakers as if the door was an enclosure.
The daytons won the 7" midbass driver battle for the lowest F3 (point at which the output starts dropping) in the 2 cuft doors at 58 Hz. My HAT Imagines are 97Hz. 
I will try the dayton route because they are cheap, well regarded and easier to install. 
for what it's worth- the F3 of your Morels in the RAV's door is approximately 37 Hz!


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

avanti1960 said:


> james, nicely done! i bet they do sound great. they do look huge in the door panels and you have shown what it takes to make it work, thanks.
> i have these on my short list now but i am going to try to use the dayton rs180s first. i calculated our door's volume to be approx. 2 cuft and modeled many speakers as if the door was an enclosure.
> The daytons won the 7" midbass driver battle for the lowest F3 (point at which the output starts dropping) in the 2 cuft doors at 58 Hz. My HAT Imagines are 97Hz.
> I will try the dayton route because they are cheap, well regarded and easier to install.
> for what it's worth- the F3 of your Morels in the RAV's door is approximately 37 Hz!


I was wondering when I'd see you respond.:laugh: 

It's nice to know what the 'enclosure' volume is of our doors approximately. That is a nice number to know I think even if I think I am done with my midbass setup for now. -- Never know, I might get bored at some later date and attempt getting the Dyn mw182 in there. That would very likely lose the stealth factor that a factory look provides. Right now, I am very happy with these. 

37 Hz you say? I tend to believe it! I have them crossed at 55 Hz currently and still am having to take out a couple db at 50 Hz. I still need to do some further eq shaping I think whenever I get some time. I am working this weekend and it has gotten ugly cold again here so who knows when I'll get the opportunity. That and I don't have alot of desire to do it right now as I am going to be rebuilding the sub box and rebuilding the fiberglass enclosures in the coming months so everything will have to be reset up then anyways. I am upgrading to the Scan 12m midranges too and am really looking forward to hearing how this all turns out once its all done and in place. Summer can't get here soon enough. Hell, right now I'd settle for Spring.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

Nice install....door looks very nice.

What amp are you running? Sorry if I missed it.

Also, would you consider running a 12 dB slope on the high pass?


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

FG79 said:


> Nice install....door looks very nice.
> 
> What amp are you running? Sorry if I missed it.
> 
> Also, would you consider running a 12 dB slope on the high pass?


Thanks for the compliments. The doors are actually not the prettiest install I have seen by a long shot but they are sealed as best as I can and deadened fairly well. I do have a rattle in the pass. door I need to track down yet tho when I get some time. They also have ccf and mlv in there to keep out alot of the road noise.

I am running the midbasses off of a Mosconi One 120.4 bridged. That puts it capable of 340 watts rms. Gain is quite low obviously tho 

I have not really had any time to really play with the crossover too much. I think it is at 55 Hz - 24 db Butterworth currently. I would consider anything crossover wise if it makes it sound better. I was able to show a perfect flat line from 20 Hz to 100 Hz (1/3 octave rta resolution) with the current alignment after some rough eq cuts tho so I didn't experiment any further. I am sure I will try other alignments and such when I get some time. I know I have a little too heavy at 100 Hz right now tho for one. I went flat to 100 Hz and I am finding that is a little much for my ears anyways. I am still learning what curve best serves my ears it seems


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

how are these breaking in for you? got them dialed in yet and still happy?
it is extremely helpful to see someone with the exact same doors / cabin getting a speaker to work for them, thanks for sharing this info. i am inspired to try to up size my front drivers as well. 
i've been searching for the largest 7" and smallest 8" i could find after deciding that the daytons are too deep. 
i found the dynaudio esotec mw 172 (not the really pricey dyns) at woofers etc and i believe they will fit without mods to the metal- i will just have to counterbore the baffle, planning on 1" HDPE plastic sheet. 
the esotecs have a 6.7" cutout and 3" depth, on the small size for an 8" driver but they still calculate to a nice F3 of 63 Hz.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

avanti1960 said:


> how are these breaking in for you? got them dialed in yet and still happy?
> it is extremely helpful to see someone with the exact same doors / cabin getting a speaker to work for them, thanks for sharing this info. i am inspired to try to up size my front drivers as well.
> i've been searching for the largest 7" and smallest 8" i could find after deciding that the daytons are too deep.
> i found the dynaudio esotec mw 172 (not the really pricey dyns) at woofers etc and i believe they will fit without mods to the metal- i will just have to counterbore the baffle, planning on 1" HDPE plastic sheet.
> the esotecs have a 6.7" cutout and 3" depth, on the small size for an 8" driver but they still calculate to a nice F3 of 63 Hz.


I am still loving the mw265 that are in my doors. You are right, I think they are starting to really break in now too. I have had absolutely zero time to do much with the tuning of these or anything else really. A part of it is that I am going to be rebuilding my sub box to a larger dimension and rebuilding my speaker pods for a better/larger set of midranges (Scan 12m) and all of my tuning will have to be redone then. I know I could make things sound a little better now but I have really been thinking lately, 'what's the point?' It sounds pretty good right now and actually the midbass is not really a problem at all anymore really. The problem is with my midrange mainly and that is due to poor install/enclosure mainly. I have learned a tonne since I did most of this install or at least I keep telling myself that. Oh, I guess there is one pretty serious problem with my midbass currently. I have a nasty rattle in both doors. I thought it was the door cards but find that it is actually in the structure of the door somewhere. I believe it is coming from the aluminum flashing I used to seal up the doors. I don't have any more sound deadener right now and am tapped for cash currently so that will have to wait until later. I also can't hear it at all as the midrange overpowers it but deep down I know it is probably contributing to the problems in frequency response.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Oh, and also more related to your ideas, I was told the Dyn mw172 is even better than my mw265 for sq. If I could get those for what I paid for these Morel's I likely would have had them in there instead. You should be very happy with them. I am not so sure you will get away without cutting any metal tho but there will be less to cut for sure. You might even be able to use the same factory mounting bolts you are using currently too. I still really wish I could have squeezed in the mw182 as that is supposed to be the ultimate but it wasn't to be and I am very happy with where I am midbass wise right now.


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## takeabao (Jul 18, 2005)

Pretty much my experiences in a nutshell.

Glad it worked out.


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

james2266 said:


> Thanks Jerry. I really wanted to buy from you for those mw182 but they just wouldn't fit without modifying the door panel. I actually thought I was not going to be impressed enough with these Morels and end up getting the mw182 from you anyway and having to mod the door panel or something. Boy was I wrong about these drivers. I am quite impressed so far. I'm sure I'll get to buy something from you sometime down the road. It would be nice to help out someone that has been so helpful to me.
> 
> On another note, I reposted the pics through imageshack and they are showing correctly now. I should of used them the first time. I'll remember that next time.
> 
> I will try to get some rta plots of these speakers in the coming days so stay tuned those who like those kinds of things


Too bad on the 182's not fitting because they are a sick midbass in a door. All I can say is just be prepared to deaden your door rock solid. Hope you enjoy the Morels.


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