# sound deadening help



## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

i have a 92 civic the metal is paper thin
i hear sound deadening really helps so i plan on deadening the car i just have a few questions

is this for road noise and rattles or does it help with the mid bass as well?
also what brand should i go with? or does it even matter


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## asianinvasion21 (Sep 24, 2012)

It helps with the road noise and the rattle. You will also notice more output in your midbass. Im not a stickler for the brand as long as it can be applied correctly. For instance I wouldn't buy dynamat if I can get three times as much off brand stuff on ebay.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

i have a **** ton of road noise but what helps with more mid bass??


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Reducing road noise will make the midbass sound louder.

Try building a seamless bathtub shape of MLV (glue all seams) under the interior carpet and cover as much of the floor as you can including the wheel wells and as much of the firewall as you can reach.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

asianinvasion21 said:


> It helps with the road noise and the rattle. You will also notice more output in your midbass. Im not a stickler for the brand as long as it can be applied correctly. For instance I wouldn't buy dynamat if I can get three times as much off brand stuff on ebay.


There are actually large differences in performance between different products. And since laying doesnt really work well, its better to buy a good product than to buy 3 times as much of a junk product.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

eddie7978 said:


> i have a 92 civic the metal is paper thin
> i hear sound deadening really helps so i plan on deadening the car i just have a few questions
> 
> is this for road noise and rattles or does it help with the mid bass as well?
> also what brand should i go with? or does it even matter


Jazzi is right on the money.

The type of deadening that you stick to the metal is called constrained layer damping, or CLD. Its for reducing panel resonance, but doesnt work well for broadband noise like road noise.


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## asianinvasion21 (Sep 24, 2012)

It truly depends how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go. Some people will deaden the entire interior to limit road noise. Personally, I would rather have off brand deadener covering the entire interior vs really good material covering just my door panels. You will notice a big increase in mid bass if you apply any deadener correctly for starters. Some products are better than others i def don't disagree with that. I just don't like paying a ton for deadener when I can allocate that to another part of the system.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

asianinvasion21 said:


> It truly depends how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go. Some people will deaden the entire interior to limit road noise. Personally, I would rather have off brand deadener covering the entire interior vs really good material covering just my door panels. You will notice a big increase in mid bass if you apply any deadener correctly for starters. Some products are better than others i def don't disagree with that. I just don't like paying a ton for deadener when I can allocate that to another part of the system.


The thing is, anything past 25% coverage is past the point of diminishing returns. You get more bang for your buck buying the best product and covering 25% than buying a cheap deadener and applying it at 100%. And better absolute performance as well.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> The thing is, anything past 25% coverage is past the point of diminishing returns. You get more bang for your buck buying the best product and covering 25% than buying a cheap deadener and applying it at 100%. And better absolute performance as well.


Have you tested or used the Soundskins stuff? It appears to be a 1.5mm layer of cld, with a 3mm layer of what they are calling "acoustic foam"...

SoundSkins – Improve Sound, Reduce Noise


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> Have you tested or used the Soundskins stuff? It appears to be a 1.5mm layer of cld, with a 3mm layer of what they are calling "acoustic foam"...
> 
> SoundSkins – Improve Sound, Reduce Noise


I havent been able to, but i do have some on hand. Its not the same butyl as the GTMat onyx, so i cant really compare it to that. It does resist heat well, up with the best, so thats a positive sign.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

what parts of the car should i focus on? door panels, quarter panels, trunk and floor?

also i didn't know there's a right and wrong way to apply it?

is dynamat xtreme good?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

eddie7978 said:


> what parts of the car should i focus on? door panels, quarter panels, trunk and floor?
> 
> also i didn't know there's a right and wrong way to apply it?
> 
> is dynamat xtreme good?


The big flat panels with no bracing are the most likely to resonante.

As for applying, just make sure the panel is clean. Denatured alcohol is best, but 91% isopropyl works too.

Dynamat xtreme is a good product. Not the absolute best performance, but on of the best performance to weight ratios.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

i'm reading cld is not the best for road noise? i'm not looking to go crazy here just wana do somthing simple and effective i have a ton of road noise and bad mid bass


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I havent been able to, but i do have some on hand. Its not the same butyl as the GTMat onyx, so i cant really compare it to that. It does resist heat well, up with the best, so thats a positive sign.


Interesting... I kinda wish my Jeep wasn't fully deadened, just to be able to try a roll of it.

They are advertising it as a stand alone product... At the very least, it seems easy to use and efficient as a CLD and decoupler, two in one, that would sandwich MLV. Imho


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

The deadening that is most important is that which is closest to the drivers you think are underperforming or generating the most noise during the music you listen to. These are typically subs, mid-bass, or mids. Start near the speaker, and work outward. Brand does not matter too much. Small pieces spaced out is better. You're not trying to seal an enclosure or chamber, you're simply trying to dampen back waves so that cancellation and vibration are minimized.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Adding damping will do very, very little for blocking road noise and you will spend an absurd amount of money if you try to cover every surface in multiple layers like you see people love to brag about with photos and whatnot.

You want an air-tight, dense (this is the key) barrier to keep road noise on the road and prevent it from entering the cabin. Mass-loaded-vinyl weighing about 1lb per square foot is common for this, is easy to work with, easy to cut to size, to install, glue together, doesn't give off any chemical smells, melt, or otherwise fail over time, and it is tremendously inexpensive compared to multiple layers of damping tiles (plus it works significantly better for what you're trying to accomplish).



> Try building a seamless bathtub shape of MLV (glue all seams) under the interior carpet and cover as much of the floor as you can including the wheel wells and as much of the firewall as you can reach.


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

I have used Fatmat and GT Mat in my truck along with 1" CCF in my truck. I also have some lead sheeting where my exhaust passes under the truck. I just put it everywhere and I mean everywhere. 
I have not got my stereo finished yet but what I can say is I have no road noise anymore and I cannot hear my diesel engine running anymore on the highway since I installed the soundproofing.
There's guys that will chime in on what product will do what frequency etc but I know that if you have the room for the Dynamat type material then put a CCF over that it will make all the difference. 
On my floor I also put down Jude and my carpet kit came with a rubber backing as well.

I also put Jude material under my door panels where I could make it fit.

There are lots of new products available these days and I'm sure they work well. I installed Dynamat Xtreme in my old truck with Dynapad over it and it worked well.
But its gone up a lot since I last used it and opted to go generic this time. It worked out just fine but I installed much more material in my current truck.

I highly recommend installing soundproofing in any vehicle with a nice stereo. Will help keep out the road noises and help keep stereo sound inside the vehicle.

Good Luck with it.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> The deadening that is most important is that which is closest to the drivers you think are underperforming or generating the most noise during the music you listen to. These are typically subs, mid-bass, or mids. Start near the speaker, and work outward. Brand does not matter too much. Small pieces spaced out is better. You're not trying to seal an enclosure or chamber, you're simply trying to dampen back waves so that cancellation and vibration are minimized.


The idea that brand does not matter is absolutely incorrect. Google CLD objective testing and skip to the last page for results.

Also, the idea that small pieces spread out is better is completely false. When i tested a single, centered 25% coverage piece, vs 4 seperste pieces that added up to 25% coverage, the single piece destroyed the smaller seperate pieces. The smaller pieces lost most of the performance.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> The idea that brand does not matter is absolutely incorrect. Google CLD objective testing and skip to the last page for results.
> 
> Also, the idea that small pieces spread out is better is completely false. When i tested a single, centered 25% coverage piece, vs 4 seperste pieces that added up to 25% coverage, the single piece destroyed the smaller seperate pieces. The smaller pieces lost most of the performance.


Thanks for your input, what I have found that works I will stick with of course.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> Thanks for your input, what I have found that works I will stick with of course.


This is the measured response of 28% coverage on a sheet of 16ga steel using SDS CLD tile. This is using one solid piece.


This is the measured response of 28% coverage on a sheet of 16ga steel using SDS CLD Tile. This is using 4 small pieces.





This is GTMat 110mil


This is Dynamat Xtreme


This is SDS CLD Tiles


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> This is the measured response of 28% coverage on a sheet of 16ga steel using SDS CLD tile. This is using one solid piece.
> 
> 
> This is the measured response of 28% coverage on a sheet of 16ga steel using SDS CLD Tile. This is using 4 small pieces.
> ...


I really love all the graphs, but when I do what I do, it just sounds better and that is just good enough. Your results may be great too, I'm not one to call out your interpretation as being incorrect just because it differs from my own. But that's just me being me.


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## Rossi (Dec 21, 2016)

I wish to add some views, not from my experience, but from speaking to some real experienced audio guy's advise. See if it helps.

He said for a typical Japanese car that is not luxurious level, areas to focus on are - 

- Door treatment ( I don't have to explain much, this forum had plenty of detailed tutorial covering this area, the inner skin, sealing up hole, etc etc.).
He told me, don't go crazy wasting too much on outer door skin.

- A pillar, stuff in materials like 3M thinsulate into the pillar to reduce wind noise, engine noise and road noise.
When wind hit windscreen, resonance transfer to the hollow holes in A pillar and amplified. Engine noise and road noise also escape up into the A pillar and amplified there. So stuffing 3M thinsulate type of materials help.

- Floor deadening, areas to focus on are 
Front firewall (from the inside), and the foot well. 
Most cars main frame are mounted at around the around and the cause of low frequency noise. 
This area can put maybe 2 layers of CLD.

- Underneath rear seat, put some CLD as well, plenty of noise coming from there.
- And depending on car rear suspension design, put some CLD at the mounting point to the body, two layers or three layers.

He said don't waste money covering CLD on every inch of the floor.


Hope this helps.


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## Rossi (Dec 21, 2016)

And yes the front wheel well as well.

This area, I can't comment too much, I think is a tricky area.

My old car, the audio guy (other person, different from the one who gave advise) went overboard and in addition to 3M thinsulate, he stuffed styrofoam like material near the gap where you can see between the two hinge of the front door.
That additional styrofoam like material screw up things big time.
I get funny ear pressure feeling, sounds from outside get trapped and weird feeling.
just removing that styrofoam piece made night and day difference.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

i have a lot of road noise coming from the rear end it's a hatchback.. so if i put cld down it won't block the road noise?

i would mostly want to concentrate on that and the doors..

i'm not trying to go crazy here.. i would like to do the doors.. now do i have to do the inner and outer skin? and what do i use for the big open holes?


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## asianinvasion21 (Sep 24, 2012)

Without pics these graphs really dont mean much. The guy said something simple. Not everyone wants to spend hundreds of extra dollars on deadener.



TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> This is the measured response of 28% coverage on a sheet of 16ga steel using SDS CLD tile. This is using one solid piece.
> 
> 
> This is the measured response of 28% coverage on a sheet of 16ga steel using SDS CLD Tile. This is using 4 small pieces.
> ...


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## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Jazzi said:


> Adding damping will do very, very little for blocking road noise and you will spend an absurd amount of money if you try to cover every surface in multiple layers like you see people love to brag about with photos and whatnot.
> 
> You want an air-tight, dense (this is the key) barrier to keep road noise on the road and prevent it from entering the cabin. Mass-loaded-vinyl weighing about 1lb per square foot is common for this, is easy to work with, easy to cut to size, to install, glue together, doesn't give off any chemical smells, melt, or otherwise fail over time, and it is tremendously inexpensive compared to multiple layers of damping tiles (plus it works significantly better for what you're trying to accomplish).


Yes, I use GTMat on every surface possible but the most sound deadening gain were from the mass-loaded-vinyl that I had on top of the GTMat




Rossi said:


> I wish to add some views, not from my experience, but from speaking to some real experienced audio guy's advise. See if it helps.
> 
> He said for a typical Japanese car that is not luxurious level, areas to focus on are -
> 
> ...


too bad, on newer car the A-Pillar is filled with airbags... so I don't want to mess up with the airbag there...

I also feel that after I cover the entire floor of my car,
my car actually feel much more solid over road bumps, well perhaps because my car is a Honda Fit and the Honda Fit have thin floor so when you add CLD, it add a bit of rigidity to the car...


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

asianinvasion21 said:


> Without pics these graphs really dont mean much. The guy said something simple. Not everyone wants to spend hundreds of extra dollars on deadener.


Without pics of what? This was a controlled test in a controlled environment, using the exact same piece of metal for each test, using sine wave sweeps and a calibrated measurement mic, and using a jig to place the mic in the same position each time. These tests show that;

1 - you lose performance using small pieces vs one piece when total coverage percentage is the same.

2 - the idea that brands dont matter is false.


This helps with the ops question.

In other words, use a quality product. Dynamat or SDS are quality products. GTMat is not.

Place said quality product in the center of large flat resonant panels in pieces covering 25%, keeping the pieces of deadener in one solid piece when possible.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

is there like an all in one so i dont have to layer it with all different material


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

eddie7978 said:


> is there like an all in one so i dont have to layer it with all different material


I believe there is, I don't know what its called though. I went after it in my truck with overkill as my plan figuring I'd stumble my way through it. That stubborn guy is up to date with all of the soundproofing materials. 
I'm sure he can tell you where to get the stuff too.....


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> I really love all the graphs, but when I do what I do, it just sounds better and that is just good enough. Your results may be great too, I'm not one to call out your interpretation as being incorrect just because it differs from my own. But that's just me being me.


I'm with you 100% I used the lousy GT Mat along with a 1" CCF over that and did it twice on the doors. On the outside door skins and then again inside the truck on the interior door sheet metal. Worked great  Is there room for improvement.... of coarse no doubt.
But I knock on my doors now with my knuckles and its no longer a rattling sheet metal sound like the front fender and the bed, its a dull Thud now.

Go with whatever you are sold on. There's different ways to reduce noise for sure. One thing I will say is: I went with 100% coverage in my truck and as I went through the install process it was obvious where it was installed and where it wasn't. 

Again I'm very happy with my results.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

can i just lay some luxury liner pro down in the hatch where i have bad road noise


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

eddie7978 said:


> can i just lay some luxury liner pro down in the hatch where i have bad road noise


Absolutely........ There it is mlv and ccf all ready to go. That is what you want to cancel out road noise. 
I know you really need both of those materials in combination to get a significant improvement.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

where do u buy this stuff?


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## Rocketjones (Oct 23, 2008)

eddie7978 said:


> where do u buy this stuff?


Google "luxury liner pro" = Luxury Liner Pro Mass Loaded Vinyl + Closed Cell Foam - 24"x 54" Each (36sqFt) - Second Skin Audio
You can literally cut your costs in half/more if you buy MLV and CCF seperate. They are really easy to install. As in you peel the back off of the MLV and stick it on something. You can use a roller or heat gun to help adhesion, it has been my experience this is not nearly as important as having a clean surface. CCF can be a little trickier, you may have to use velcro or spray on adhesive if you opt to not buy the adhesive backed CCF.
TBH you can get just as good results from exercise mats which you can also choose thickness.
Wally world has these https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gold-s-Gym-10mm-Exercise-Mat/28455627
They also sell 3mm, 5mm, 6mm exercise mats for just as cheap. I can cover the outer and inner doorskin with one mat. If your civic is 2 door, 1 mat for each door, 2 for the floor and 1-2 for the trunk. Be aware that you may have fitment issues with your door card if trying to layer to much MLV/CCF. I find the 10mm mats are good on the outer door skin and the 3-6mm work with the least fitment issues behind the door cards or really anywhere a panel or carpet attaches.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

so first i put damlifier pro and then luxery liner pro ..


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

or would you recomend dynamat extreme? which is easier to work with? also what do i use for the big holes in the doors.. what's the easiest way? dynaliner?anything i can just stick on?


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

Dna-mat xtreme is a very good product and will work well for you. Its very flexible and thin so it will lay down very nicely. Put it on the entire surface that you are trying to quiet down. This 25% coverage only is pointless cover your entire trunk floor area. Wheel well "fenders" are also classic for transmitting road noise into cabin. So if that is in the area do it.
After you install the Dyna-mat put the Dyna-liner over the top. Both are pressure sensitive so you peel and stick. I went with the 1/2" with the Dyna-liner but that's up to you it comes in 1/4 and 3/8" as well.
My old F250 that is what I used and it did a great job. 

Only reason I did not use again on my current truck was because of the cost today. It has gone up in past 5 years and there is not that big of a difference. You will want to put it out in sunlight for the Dyna-mat to soften up enough so its very pliable. I used a heat gun in some areas but a blow dryer will work if you need it.

Its very easy to install and the stuff works. You will love it that I can assure you.
With me it became a challenge to myself to make my truck as quiet inside as I could get it. I have my entire cab soundproofed doors roof under the cab and firewall inside and out.
Good Luck with it


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

Dna-mat xtreme is a very good product and will work well for you. Its very flexible and thin so it will lay down very nicely. Put it on the entire surface that you are trying to quiet down. This 25% coverage only is pointless cover your entire trunk floor area. Wheel well "fenders" are also classic for transmitting road noise into cabin. So if that is in the area do it.
After you install the Dyna-mat put the Dyna-liner over the top. Both are pressure sensitive so you peel and stick. I went with the 1/2" with the Dyna-liner but that's up to you it comes in 1/4 and 3/8" as well.
My old F250 that is what I used and it did a great job. 

Only reason I did not use again on my current truck was because of the cost today. It has gone up in past 5 years and there is not that big of a difference. You will want to put it out in sunlight for the Dyna-mat to soften up enough so its very pliable. I used a heat gun in some areas but a blow dryer will work if you need it.

Its very easy to install and the stuff works. You will love it that I can assure you.
With me it became a challenge to myself to make my truck as quiet inside as I could get it. I have my entire cab soundproofed doors roof under the cab and firewall inside and out.
Good Luck with it


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Marky said:


> Dna-mat xtreme is a very good product and will work well for you. Its very flexible and thin so it will lay down very nicely. Put it on the entire surface that you are trying to quiet down. This 25% coverage only is pointless cover your entire trunk floor area. Wheel well "fenders" are also classic for transmitting road noise into cabin. So if that is in the area do it.
> After you install the Dyna-mat put the Dyna-liner over the top. Both are pressure sensitive so you peel and stick. I went with the 1/2" with the Dyna-liner but that's up to you it comes in 1/4 and 3/8" as well.
> My old F250 that is what I used and it did a great job.
> 
> ...


Marky, you are absolutely incorrect about 25% being pointless. Going paat 25% is going into diminished returns. Testing showed a 14db reduction in peak reaonance from 25% coverage on the test panel, vs 21db for 100% coverage. So you spend 400% more for much less gain than the first 25% coverage.


Eddie, dynamat xtreme and damplifier pro perform about the same. Dynamat xtreme is lighter. Both are very close in geat resistance. If weight isnt an issue, use what you can get cheaper.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the OP wants to block road noise.

Why are you all still debating damping tile products? They don't do anything to block road noise unless you use a TON of it in multiple layers and spend many hundreds of dollars, if not more.

Mass loaded vinyl is the way to block road noise. It is also 10x less expensive than multiple layers of damping tiles, easier to install, doesn't smell, or melt, or fail in any way whatsoever.

Please, somebody help me out here...


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Jazzi said:


> I'm pretty sure the OP wants to block road noise.
> 
> Why are you all still debating damping tile products? They don't do anything to block road noise unless you use a TON of it in multiple layers and spend many hundreds of dollars, if not more.
> 
> ...


A couple of posts back, Eddie announced his intention to use cld on only the large flat surfaces under luxury liner pro. Then he asked if damplifier pro or dynamat xtreme would be the better cld for that.

Marky (who earlier in the thread said that you needed multiple layers of cld to block road noise and that it didn't matter what brand you used or if you used asphalt products) told him that he needed to ignore anyone that told him to only use 25% as he needed at least a full layer of cld.


Basically Eddie was headed down the right path and I was trying to keep him there regarding the actual use of cld, after a double post of false logic about cld.

Eddie, 25% cld on large flat surfaces, 100% ccf/mlv. If you can only afford one, 100% ccf/mlv.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Where are people getting mlv?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Sounddeadenershowdown.com, second skin audio, trademark soundproofing.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Seems like you have to buy so much


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

In order to be effective, the ccf/mlv needs to have 100% coverage.

Think of it like a lawnmover running outside a window. Open the window all the way, and its loud. Close it all the way and its quiet. Crack it open just a litle bit, and most of the noise comes right back in.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

how's that dyna pad compared to luxury liner pro


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Looks to be a good alternative. The only thing to keep in mind about dynapad and luxury liner pro is that they are 3/8" thick, which might make them hard to fit under some carpet and panels. But, they are 1 piece ccf and mlv.

On the other hand you can use separate 1/8" ccf and 1/8" mlv and get a thinner, effective result, but you have to deal with 2 seperate layers.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

u guys buy this stuff locally or mostly online


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Few local places carry it. Usually have to buy online.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

eddie7978 said:


> u guys buy this stuff locally or mostly online


I bought mine at Trademark Soundproofing--best prices for virgin vinyl MLV available in different weights and thicknesses and with PSA or not and free shipping on minimum order of $75.

https://www.tmsoundproofing.com/mass-loaded-vinyl.html


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

thinking about getting the door kit from second skin..
do you recomend using the speaker tweakers?
if so do i put them on top of the damplifier?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I cant recommend the speaker tweakers. I havent personally tested them objectively, but physics say they dont work.

They are supposed to be a diffuser. But the ridges are about 1/4" thick. Diffuseres become effective at the frequency where the wavelength equals 1/4 the diffuser depth. That means these things dont really work until about 13,500hz, well above what a door speaker should be playing.


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> In order to be effective, the ccf/mlv needs to have 100% coverage.
> 
> Think of it like a lawnmover running outside a window. Open the window all the way, and its loud. Close it all the way and its quiet. Crack it open just a litle bit, and most of the noise comes right back in.


That's my point exactly......... You need to cover the entire area that noise is coming from.

If you have to choose one the CCF is going to have the biggest impact. As far as the road base goes 'GT Mat' or anything that sound has to get through will deal with different frequencies as well. I like how you zero in on the asphalt ingredient every time. Sound has a much harder time going through that then it does a solid rigid material like steel. It works or companies would not be using it for the exact purpose of sound control. I know it works and it works extremely well. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over what works better because I don't care. The differences are incremental but the cost is not. 
There are countless brands and products for sound reduction. Pick what you are comfortable with, as long as its self adhesive it should be very easy to install for you. 

A pile of rags has noise dampening to it as well as dog **** if you have enough of it to spread around. I have put sound proofing material in four trucks now all with different brands and materials. All of them were pretty much the same results. 

Have used Dyna-mat, Fat-Mat, GT-Mat, Hush-Mat and like I said they all were pretty much the same result. I did a dB test in my old truck and posted it here on this forum IIRC. You can make a AT&T commercial in my truck at 70 mph waiting to hear that pin drop. You will hear that pin drop.....

Good Luck with it, easy peasy..............


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

eddie7978 said:


> thinking about getting the door kit from second skin..
> do you recomend using the speaker tweakers?
> if so do i put them on top of the damplifier?


You want to decouple all of your door speakers. A foam ring around the mounting surface is what most speaker companies recommend.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Marky said:


> That's my point exactly......... You need to cover the entire area that noise is coming from.
> 
> If you have to choose one the CCF is going to have the biggest impact.
> 
> ...


Lets be clear here. Fatmat is absolute crap. It is identical to peel n seal. Here is the test results for it.


Here is GTMat 80mil. Slightly better, but still garbage.


Here is GTMat 110mil. This is actually there best performing product, even better than their junk butyl, but it still fails heat testing.


Here is dynamat xtreme. Lightweight, holds up to 400 degree temps. 


Here is SDS CLD Tiles, the winner of the overall shootout. Better performance than dynamat, slightly heavier, also withstands 400 degree temps.



And here is the link to application testing which shows what a waste applying more than 25% coverage with a CLD product is. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/262722-cld-testing-2-application-techniques.html


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Marky said:


> You want to decouple all of your door speakers. A foam ring around the mounting surface is what most speaker companies recommend.


Unfortunately, a foam ring doesn't decouple the speaker. It simply seals the frame to the door. The speaker is still coupled to the door or baffle with screws.


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Unfortunately, a foam ring doesn't decouple the speaker. It simply seals the frame to the door. The speaker is still coupled to the door or baffle with screws.


LMAO I hope you have a life away from dyna-mat and its counterparts.

Maybe we should all scrap the screws holding our drivers to our vehicles and use some of your 400* super gooey soundproofing and just mash them onto the doors.

Never seen anyone with quite the severity OCD attraction to soundproofing materials.......goes back years ago


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Marky said:


> Never seen anyone with quite the severity OCD attraction to the spreading of misinformation.......goes back years ago


fixed that for ya


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> fixed that for ya


That's pretty handy work.

BTW.... Nice system in your 300ZX. That's serious business there I really like the 6 Zapco amps. I'm working on something similar for my pickup but not as much HP.

Looked for pictures but was disappointed to find none posted 

Nevermind stupid me just figured out the link


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Marky said:


> That's pretty handy work.
> 
> BTW.... Nice system in your 300ZX. That's serious business there I really like the 6 Zapco amps. I'm working on something similar for my pickup but not as much HP.
> 
> ...


thanks. unfortunately i havent been able to touch the car since april


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

eddie7978 said:


> i have a 92 civic the metal is paper thin
> i hear sound deadening really helps so i plan on deadening the car i just have a few questions
> 
> is this for road noise and rattles or does it help with the mid bass as well?
> also what brand should i go with? or does it even matter


Here's a video that will help you increase mid bass for your build, if that is your goal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EXuHlBy4M 

The content of the products you use have a large impact on the effectiveness.....insist on high quality American made butyl products for your CLD layer or you will regret the long term issues of using asphalt or tar filled CLD. 

PM us with nay questions you may have or send us an email [email protected] or call 1-800-679-8511 and we will gladly walk you through proper sound deadening for your project!!!!


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I cant recommend the speaker tweakers. I havent personally tested them objectively, but physics say they dont work.
> 
> They are supposed to be a diffuser. But the ridges are about 1/4" thick. Diffuseres become effective at the frequency where the wavelength equals 1/4 the diffuser depth. That means these things dont really work until about 13,500hz, well above what a door speaker should be playing.


With your measurements, it is clear to see you have never used them.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

eddie7978 said:


> i'm reading cld is not the best for road noise? i'm not looking to go crazy here just wana do somthing simple and effective i have a ton of road noise and bad mid bass


CLD does not address road noise. You need to use melamine foam to absorb road noise and a mass loaded vinyl product to block it out.

Mega'Zorbe Hydrophobic Melamine Foam - 1 Sheet (24"x48" = 8 sqft) - Second Skin Audio

Products - MLV NOISE BARRIERS - Second Skin Audio


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Without pics of what? This was a controlled test in a controlled environment, using the exact same piece of metal for each test, using sine wave sweeps and a calibrated measurement mic, and using a jig to place the mic in the same position each time. These tests show that;
> 
> 1 - you lose performance using small pieces vs one piece when total coverage percentage is the same.
> 
> ...



Controlled Test??? Your tests spanned 3 years with different environmental conditions every single day. Your moms clock, neighbor dogs, and a/c unit were changing factors in your testing DAILY!!! While your tests are very "in depth" and a lot of time/effort was put into them...they are light years away from "scientific testing" which occurs all at the same time, under the same exact environmental conditions controlled in a lab. Your testing was a true "Do It Yourself" level of testing just like this forum is for DIY.....nowhere near the testing levels of true "scientific testing" that great companies pay ($5,000-$10,000 a test cycle) to have performed on our products. The community thanks you for your help in trying to educate people how bad it is to use asphalt and tar products, but lets all pump the brakes on calling it "scientific" testing sir. Do you have some kind of science degree? If not, you are just Bil Nye of the sound deadener world. PEACE OUT


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

eddie7978 said:


> where do u buy this stuff?


Index of /


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Jazzi said:


> I'm pretty sure the OP wants to block road noise.
> 
> Why are you all still debating damping tile products? They don't do anything to block road noise unless you use a TON of it in multiple layers and spend many hundreds of dollars, if not more.
> 
> ...


You are correct sir, MLV is the product he needs


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Looks to be a good alternative. The only thing to keep in mind about dynapad and luxury liner pro is that they are 3/8" thick, which might make them hard to fit under some carpet and panels. But, they are 1 piece ccf and mlv.
> 
> On the other hand you can use separate 1/8" ccf and 1/8" mlv and get a thinner, effective result, but you have to deal with 2 seperate layers.


Luxury Liner Pro is actually 1/4" thick and has no issues fitting inside of 90% of the vehicles on the road. A few select vehicles like Porsche and Prius are some of the ones that need thinner products.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

eddie7978 said:


> thinking about getting the door kit from second skin..
> do you recomend using the speaker tweakers?
> if so do i put them on top of the damplifier?


The Speaker Tweakers go directly behind the speaker on top of the last product you use (either CLD or CCF or MLV). You need to apply them with super glue.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Second Skin said:


> Here's a video that will help you increase mid bass for your build, if that is your goal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EXuHlBy4M
> 
> The content of the products you use have a large impact on the effectiveness.....insist on high quality American made butyl products for your CLD layer or you will regret the long term issues of using asphalt or tar filled CLD.
> 
> PM us with nay questions you may have or send us an email [email protected] or call 1-800-679-8511 and we will gladly walk you through proper sound deadening for your project!!!!


That's a great video of showing how to properly get sound door deadner done... If you see, Mark has used so many different products to create these door and for them to be solid, yes he used all these fancy things to make the install look simple and painless. but honestly doing sound dadner isn't fun at all, but it needs to be done if you want the sound quality and quiet ride.  there is no other way around it.

I just did my door and it was a pain in the @$$,, but huge difference thats for sure.


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> Controlled Test??? Your tests spanned 3 years with different environmental conditions every single day. Your moms clock, neighbor dogs, and a/c unit were changing factors in your testing DAILY!!! While your tests are very "in depth" and a lot of time/effort was put into them...they are light years away from "scientific testing" which occurs all at the same time, under the same exact environmental conditions controlled in a lab. Your testing was a true "Do It Yourself" level of testing just like this forum is for DIY.....nowhere near the testing levels of true "scientific testing" that great companies pay ($5,000-$10,000 a test cycle) to have performed on our products. The community thanks you for your help in trying to educate people how bad it is to use asphalt and tar products, but lets all pump the brakes on calling it "scientific" testing sir. Do you have some kind of science degree? If not, you are just Bil Nye of the sound deadener world. PEACE OUT


There you go.......

In all honesty I think you should work for these guys. I gotta know if it was a cuckoo clock chirping away at your microphone in that Geo ?

Second Skin I'm glad to see you show up. The OP is surely still waiting on a direction to go.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> With your measurements, it is clear to see you have never used them.


Unless your using them to mass load (which would be silly), the tweakers are, like he said, pointless until you get waaaay above what a mid will be playing. Physics states that they diffusers like the tweakers start working when the ridges are a tenth of the wavelength and start peaking at a quarter wavelength. The ridges on the tweakers are about a quarter inch high. You do the math. I also know your just here to market your product without concern for anything else so I don't expect you to actually do the math 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> Controlled Test??? Your tests spanned 3 years with different environmental conditions every single day. Your moms clock, neighbor dogs, and a/c unit were changing factors in your testing DAILY!!! While your tests are very "in depth" and a lot of time/effort was put into them...they are light years away from "scientific testing" which occurs all at the same time, under the same exact environmental conditions controlled in a lab. Your testing was a true "Do It Yourself" level of testing just like this forum is for DIY.....nowhere near the testing levels of true "scientific testing" that great companies pay ($5,000-$10,000 a test cycle) to have performed on our products. The community thanks you for your help in trying to educate people how bad it is to use asphalt and tar products, but lets all pump the brakes on calling it "scientific" testing sir. Do you have some kind of science degree? If not, you are just Bil Nye of the sound deadener world. PEACE OUT


sounds like someones upset their product doesnt hang with the top dogs..


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> sounds like someones upset their product doesnt hang with the top dogs..


That is pretty funny, our 17 years of being an industry leader has you jumping on every giveaway we do for years now on multiple forums.....I think you may have even won once. It takes more than a test done in someones basement to score long standing contracts/deals with: Aerospace companies, automotive manufacturers, tractor manufacturers, West Coast Customs, elevator industry, Air Force, Army, Earth Roamers, banks, and so many more top notch clients that I don't have the time to type or need to reveal to you. This Do It Yourself testing wouldn't help us a score build with 2 Girls Garage, let alone anyone of the major builds our high quality American made products are a part of. Please keep throwing us shade on DIYMA because it is members like you who keep our name going around this site and drive customers to us. 17 years of overly happy customers coming back to us, time and time again. Thanks for trolling as usual Skiezer


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## Rocketjones (Oct 23, 2008)

Second Skin said:


> CLD does not address road noise. You need to use melamine foam to absorb road noise and a mass loaded vinyl product to block it out.
> 
> Mega'Zorbe Hydrophobic Melamine Foam - 1 Sheet (24"x48" = 8 sqft) - Second Skin Audio
> 
> Products - MLV NOISE BARRIERS - Second Skin Audio


Just to be clear and this is my own theory. I haven't tested this. Actually I will test it as soon as my shipment of melamine arrives. MLV on the sheet metal, then a layer of melamine, which I believe will nullify any back wave issues. I only wish I could get a block of melamine so I could carve it to fit the dash for midbass and tweeters. That would be soo much easier than glass.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

you sound like my local shop owner.. "trust me, ive been doing this for 25 years...."


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm still looking for a proper mlv substitute that can be bought at a big box store. Shipping that stuff is a nightmare for us Canucks 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

skizer got owned haha


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

street.terror said:


> I'm still looking for a proper mlv substitute that can be bought at a big box store. Shipping that stuff is a nightmare for us Canucks
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk



After doing your math with shipping etc.

You can simply glue 2 sheets of CLD together, the thicker the better like the KNU KOL, it should do the trick, perhaps even better with some help using the magic eraser foam, it may be as good if not better that the MLV CCF system.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

thornygravy said:


> skizer got owned haha


how so? they busted out a resume, not results that show their products are better or even work as advertised for that matter.

dont believe what i said about their gimmick product? read this..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zg7kv6ltf...rs and Diffusers - Second Editiontxt.pdf?dl=0


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Alrojoca said:


> After doing your math with shipping etc.
> 
> You can simply glue 2 sheets of CLD together, the thicker the better like the KNU KOL, it should do the trick, perhaps even better with some help using the magic eraser foam, it may be as good if not better that the MLV CCF system.


Now we're talking! Ha. The foam is easy to get because it's light. It's the mlv that stops the truck! Though I see B-Quiet has a combo version available. They ship from Canada so I going to look into that. 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Rocketjones said:


> Just to be clear and this is my own theory. I haven't tested this. Actually I will test it as soon as my shipment of melamine arrives. MLV on the sheet metal, then a layer of melamine, which I believe will nullify any back wave issues. I only wish I could get a block of melamine so I could carve it to fit the dash for midbass and tweeters. That would be soo much easier than glass.



Sounds like a great approach, I would recommend using a CCF between the metal and the MLV (unless you are using Luxury Liner Pro which already has the CCF infused onto it). Custom blocks of melamine would be a very nice idea, we may have to look into selling it in block form also, in the future.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

how would you go about doing this door
cld on outer shell.. then i can eather put the ccf/mlv on top of that.. or should i put the ccf/mlv on the inner door? also what should i do about the big holes?


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

(1) First thing you must do is close up all three of those large openings. You can use either 3/32"aluminum some 1/4" plastic material or MDF but you MUST close all of those first.
(2) Then I would put MLV Dyna-Mat type material inside door skin and on panel.
(3) Then a CCF material over all the MLV. 100% Coverage

Now that's how I did my trucks. There are different materials available from these vendors. The choice is yours. That Second Skin guy won't steer you wrong if you want to try their products. I'd give his stuff a shot if I didn't already finish my truck up.
One thing I would NOT try is the Speaker Tweaker. I'm just not feeling it there.
Good Luck with it


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Deaden the outer door skin (you have inner and outer skin mixed up it seems) as well as the inner. I'd say the outer skin needs to be deadened more than the inner because it's usually much flatter. Then close up the holes. I molded abs with heat and used self tappers to mount thwm in my one car. did two layers of cld (one on each side) of the abs. Then cld the inner skin, then ccf and mlv

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

how about then steel or aluminum somthing that's flexible and easy to work with?? or roofing flashing?


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

Roof flashing is so thin you really don't want to use anything thinner then the door itself.
Because it will deflect a bunch from the speaker as well as from just shutting the door.
You can pick up aluminum at local metal shops or even at Osh stores as well as Home Depot.
If your not in a humid place MDF does fine. Whatever you choose I would put a MLV over it to make it more stable.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

eddie7978 said:


> how about then steel or aluminum somthing that's flexible and easy to work with?? or roofing flashing?


I did that with the extruded aluminum sheets and it worked very well. Easy to work with and shape too


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

thinking about using aluminum because it wont rust.. can i just put cld on the aluminum both sides and use self tapping screws


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

the shape of these holes looks like it's going to be a pita


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Galvanized roof sheet metal or aluminum with some CLD will be the same, a 6.5" midbass in a door will not make sheet metal vibrate or flex to be a problem.

The problem is, imetal should be separated , CCF or CLD can help, also by separating it it will prevent the galvanic rust between 2 different metals, like aluminum over the door.

Abs Plastic is a better choice, to cover the holes. I would dampen the inside inner door close to the mounting hole instead of the front, to keep the factory look. As nick said, good coverage on the outer door is good since that area flexes the most, the inner door tends to be thicker and more solid all day long.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Has anybody had any corrosion issues while using galvanized sheet in the doors? I'm mostly concerned about the cut edges.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

eddie7978 said:


> how would you go about doing this door
> cld on outer shell.. then i can eather put the ccf/mlv on top of that.. or should i put the ccf/mlv on the inner door? also what should i do about the big holes?


I found browsing through through the build threads section provides a lot of ideas about this subject.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Truthunter said:


> Has anybody had any corrosion issues while using galvanized sheet in the doors? I'm mostly concerned about the cut edges.


 I've used it, I have had it for over 3 years and I have not seen or noticed rust on the cut edges, the last time was about 6 months ago. 
I'll be taking a better look again soon, back then it was the cheapest effective option, if I do it over again, I'd use abs plastic since I got a bunch of pieces that was leftover from projects and almost no cost to me.


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

There are usually places in towns that sell plastic material. Its pretty cheap too.

If not go with metal or aluminum. But not roofing flashing, the stuff on a roll is so thin its not practical at all.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Marky said:


> There are usually places in towns that sell plastic material. Its pretty cheap too.
> 
> If not go with metal or aluminum. But not roofing flashing, the stuff on a roll is so thin its not practical at all.


I used this, enough for 4 doors. It it worked fine.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IMPERIAL-24-in-x-3-ft-Sheet-Metal/3234805

Now that I remember, I used aluminum tape. Door,then butyl rope or caulk rope, sheet metal screwed, then aluminum tape to seal gaps all around, although the caulk rope would be enough. The tape was more of a cosmetic purpose, so I doubt the edge will get water air or moisture to even become rusted


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

eddie7978 said:


> how would you go about doing this door
> cld on outer shell.. then i can eather put the ccf/mlv on top of that.. or should i put the ccf/mlv on the inner door? also what should i do about the big holes?


Vibration damper on the outer skin, inner skin and trim panel. Then you want to hang MLV on the inner skin. Get it to fit so that all door mechanisms function and then test fit the trim panel - it needs to sit in it's original position, without having to throw your shoulder into it. This is the most difficult step and can require repeated test fits until you get it right. It's a good idea to remove the trim panel clips during the early stages, so you don't wear them out.

If your trim panel has foam blocks that protrude into the access holes, you'll need to account for them. They stabilize the window glass when it's rolled down, so you don't want to remove the blocks unless you never drive with the windows down.

Once you have everything working with the MLV in place, remove the MLV layer and add as close to full layer of CCF as possible to the side of the MLV facing the inner skin. Finally, add patches of CCF to the side of the MLV facing the trim panel, where the trim panel and MLV would otherwise make loose contact.

In most cases this will be enough. The trim panel will press the MLV and CCF tightly against the inner door skin, effectively covering the access holes.

Building removable, waterproof, rigid access hole covers may be worth considering if you will be generating significant SPL inside the door If that is the case, you probably shouldn't have speakers in the doors in the first place, unless you build sealed enclosures in the door. Having built access hole covers many times, I've come to the conclusion that they are a lot of effort to gain little to no benefit. Definitely into diminishing returns, so consider it in that light. The best material for irregular surfaces like those in the photos is fiberglass. Kind of a PITA. I seal the edges with Extruded Butyl Rope and hold the covers in pace with self tapping screws. Be aware that piercing the inner skin sheet metal creates the possibility of corrosion starting.

How I treat Doors.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> I've used it, I have had it for over 3 years and I have not seen or noticed rust on the cut edges, the last time was about 6 months ago.
> I'll be taking a better look again soon, back then it was the cheapest effective option, if I do it over again, I'd use abs plastic since I got a bunch of pieces that was leftover from projects and almost no cost to me.


Thanks for the info. I found the galv sheet to be 1/3 the price of aluminum sheet at the local Home Cheapo. I'm using the 12"x18" sheet that is in the hardware section next to the angle steel. It's thicker and much more rigid than the roofing material but still can be formed easy enough for our application.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

After reading the SDS website, I used butyl rope between the crash bars & the outer skin to couple them together and then covered it with foil. After I did that, outer skin resonance was reduced dramatically before even applying the CLD. I still did add the CLD which made additional improvement in resonance control but not as much as just adding the butyl rope.


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## Marky (Nov 15, 2011)

Alrojoca said:


> I used this, enough for 4 doors. It it worked fine.
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/IMPERIAL-24-in-x-3-ft-Sheet-Metal/3234805
> 
> Now that I remember, I used aluminum tape. Door,then butyl rope or caulk rope, sheet metal screwed, then aluminum tape to seal gaps all around, although the caulk rope would be enough. The tape was more of a cosmetic purpose, so I doubt the edge will get water air or moisture to even become rusted


That works there for sure if your going with a metal. Honestly steel is better then aluminum because it is denser. I would shoot some paint on it or it will rust pretty quickly.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

I did what raam does the dimpled aluminum perforated sheet. And cdl sandwiched on both sides


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Plan to spend 4-6 hours per door if it's the first time


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Alrojoca said:


> Plan to spend 4-6 hours per door if it's the first time


At least for me, unfortunately


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Usually takes me about 2-3 hours for the first door, much less for each subsequent door. I do the right side first. In most cases you can take the MLV you've fitted to that door, flip it over and trace it onto another pieces of MLV. Generally only requires 1 or 2 more holes for the driver's door and no additional holes for the left side rear door. Saves ton of time.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Don, 


Have you ever thought about either selling door templates, or complete cut sheets?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Alrojoca said:


> Don,
> 
> Have you ever thought about either selling door templates, or complete cut sheets?


Many times. The logistics are horrendous. Data gathering alone would take several full time people. Think about WeatherTech. They just need access to a vehicle. Scan the floor pans, trunk or cargo area and done. We'd have to get each car, disassemble the interior, scan the entire interior ... 

It would be great to be able to do it for doors. The rest of the vehicle would require molded parts. Unless we had a way to Star Trek replicate them, inventory and shipping would be crazy.

If it were possible, it would cost MANY times more to treat a vehicle. I don't know any people willing to gut a vehicle themselves who would consider that a good deal


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

hey has anyone tried or used dynaplate for the big holes in the doors 

http://www.dynamat.com/automotive-and-transportation/car-audio/dynaplate/


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

eddie7978 said:


> hey has anyone tried or used dynaplate for the big holes in the doors
> 
> Dynamat.com | DynaPlate for SPL Competitions and Car Audio


Eddie,

I can't find the specs on their site now, but Dynaplate's foil was only 10 mils thick, last time I looked. That's only 25% thicker than the CLD Tiles™ you have. Not rigid. You also have the problem of the side of the Dynaplate facing inside the door will have it's adhesive exposed and will accumulate all kinds of crap. Finally, the material will have to be replaced anytime you need to get inside the door for maintenance.

As you know, I'm not a huge fan of access hole covers for most installation but if you are going to do it, I'd shoot for rigid, non-resonant, waterproof and removable.


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## eddie7978 (Feb 14, 2014)

for the rear quarter panels should i mount the mlv/ccf on the outer skin and wheel well or the inner skin?? there is a large access hole for the rear quarter panel so i was just wondering what you guys would do


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