# Neodymium magnet subwoofers



## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

Just looking for a few examples of current neo magnet drivers suitable for car audio subwoofer duty, thanks.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

Critical Mass UL12 and DDz


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## poweraudio (Aug 7, 2010)

Digital designs was mentioned, they have three different neo subs (91z,95z,Z). Tc sounds I believe has a neo motor sub, incriminator audio, I guess focal still makes some... There are several more I'm forgetting.....


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

The new Fi Audio BTL line is neo. The N1 is suppose to be the SQ woofer, not out yet.  The N2 line is the ground pounding, daily use for music spl sub. The N3 is the SPL burp sub. They are also updating the SSD line to Neo. Not out just yet so keep your eyes out for that one.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Vifa and Aura have some neat subs but they are fairly light duty. 

18sound and B&C make killer neo subs but they require ported designs or a bit of EQ. on the low end in IB. 

I'm still waiting on a long throw neo design. Until then I'll rock my AE subs. They are lighter than a lot of the neo subs out there.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

X 2
You would have to kill me and pry, my (3)IB12s, "from my cold dead hands"


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

The NS15 cone isn't that much lighter than the LMS-R cone. 

But I don't think we'll be seeing much neo anything for a while....


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Not with the price increase in rare earth magnets.

Companies are already jacking prices way up or redesigning current neo lines.


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## GVTrini07 (Jun 3, 2008)

Morel Ultimo or Ultimo SC


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Two neo designs have really caught my attention lately:
*the Vifa NE due to their unbelieavable low weight and heatsink option. Check this out, without the heatsink (probably fine for IB use) only 6lb for a 12" sub:
http://www.tymphany.com/files/NE315W-04%20Rev2_0.pdf

And then with a heatsink:

http://www.tymphany.com/files/NE315W-08-HS%20Rev2_0.pdf

Tympany on the heatsinks:
SOUND SCIENCE

Sadly only 9mm throw otherwise I'd be all over them, PE even has them on special for $115. These are really enticing for saving weight, three of these would weigh under 20lbs and work well of a tiny 500w amp. 

*The other exciting neo sub is the Alpine Type R thin. The good parts are that it does indeed have enough motor strength for about 15mm of travel. The suspension lags behind 2 or 3 mm but otherwise fantastic numbers, better than say a XXLS that is a good reference for sound quality. The not so hot parts are the missing inductance plot, could be messy in a brand new design. I would also think the low end sensitivity is very poor but we cannot verify due to missing mms and bl. Not so obvious are qualities that can only be revealed with a performance based method, not a klippel. How much do all these parts built from scratch resonate? The mechanical throw is impressive and utterly destroys the competition in the thin sub market but are there any tradeoffs? I wouldn't think the spider with the cutouts is as transparent as a traditional nomex one. To me the Alpine is a big risk still, and well I do have 7 inches of depth so I don't benefit from the shallow nature. 

I might pull the trigger on those Vifas if the special price lingers longer. The weight savings are enormous and well they are Peerless built which usually means truthful specs and good quality control. These weigh as much as my 6.5 sls in the doors!


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> Two neo designs have really caught my attention lately:
> *the Vifa NE due to their unbelieavable low weight and heatsink option. Check this out, without the heatsink (probably fine for IB use) only 6lb for a 12" sub:
> http://www.tymphany.com/files/NE315W-04%20Rev2_0.pdf
> 
> ...


Those do look nice, and at $115, they look really nice. Rated power-handling is a bit low for car subwoofer duty though. 




cvjoint said:


> *The other exciting neo sub is the Alpine Type R thin.


Yes, I've been looking at that too. Interesting spider design. I'm waiting to see what the feedback is like from people who have used that sub for awhile.

Infinity really got my interest with the Kappa 122.7W a few years ago (in fact, I purchased two and I'm still using them). Neo magnet, 3" voice coil, 350W power handling (1.4kW peak) and an Xmax of 12mm. The 122.7W can be improved upon though, and I was hoping that the next version of the Kappa series would be an improved version. However Infinity decided to drop the neo motor (grumble).


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Brian Steele said:


> Those do look nice, and at $115, they look really nice. Rated power-handling is a bit low for car subwoofer duty though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On the one hand these are Peerless power ratings, long term exposure with 6db crest factor. Having played with loads of Peerless coils in the past I can safely say they are underrated. I've overheated many coils before but never a Peerless. On the other it is a neo magnet, keeping it cool means extending its life. I would think they wouldn't have a problem in infinite baffle or large sealed. 

I want to see that Alpine on a test bench for nonlinear distortion, like Sound Easy vs a reference product like the XXLS or TC2+. 

The Infinity looks very nice. The original Kappa is one of the best subs I've ever used. People cry about "only" 12mm xmax but realistically very few of the current subs can even match that. Most of the advancements have come in marketing xmax.  What's up with that dustcap though, it's rather stupid. Also note that even while neo has been used it's still 13lbs, twice as much as the Vifa. The XLS has similar xmax, probably better under a test bench and weighs only 1.5lbs more with a conventional magnet.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

if you are looking for a pure SPL monster. the incrimintors are nice. warden series. 5000W and come in 12,15,18,21" not cheap though.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> The Infinity looks very nice. The original Kappa is one of the best subs I've ever used. People cry about "only" 12mm xmax but realistically very few of the current subs can even match that. Most of the advancements have come in marketing xmax.  What's up with that dustcap though, it's rather stupid. Also note that even while neo has been used it's still 13lbs, twice as much as the Vifa. The XLS has similar xmax, probably better under a test bench and weighs only 1.5lbs more with a conventional magnet.


IMO the dustcap is a hard plastic one and suits the tough-as-nails cone. I've actually once had someone's shoe land on top of the damned thing while it was playing, and there's no visible damage. Try that with something like the Dayton Reference drivers or even the XLS . 

These are pretty light subs - you can hold two in one hand with ease, in their shipping boxes. I haven't weighed them, but I'd be very surprised if the XLS is only slightly heavier. If I have a chance this weekend, I'll take one out and measure its weight.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Brian Steele said:


> IMO the dustcap is a hard plastic one and suits the tough-as-nails cone. I've actually once had someone's shoe land on top of the damned thing while it was playing, and there's no visible damage. Try that with something like the Dayton Reference drivers or even the XLS .
> 
> These are pretty light subs - you can hold two in one hand with ease, in their shipping boxes. I haven't weighed them, but I'd be very surprised if the XLS is only slightly heavier. If I have a chance this weekend, I'll take one out and measure its weight.


I was just commenting on the design, it's rather gaudy. Subs shouldn't be built to fight your shoe collection anyway. Light diaphragms, like XLS or the Dayton give better sensitivity and probably decay as well. 

The Reference does seem to be rather hefty. Maybe the magnet material is low quality so they need more, a cost type tradeoff. 25lbs is too much for my car. My AE subs and the XXLS are in the 15lb category however, and they are ceramic type magnets. I am curios to see how much the Infinity weighs. The websites say 13lb which is about right. Neo's need heatsinks to keep cool, foregoing some of the weight savings. Car audio subs also have some very nasty baskets, to look better supposedly which also brings the weight up.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> I was just commenting on the design, it's rather gaudy. Subs shouldn't be built to fight your shoe collection anyway. Light diaphragms, like XLS or the Dayton give better sensitivity and probably decay as well.


These subs live in the back of my SUV daily driver, where spare wheels, luggage, tools or the odd hasher or two sometimes reside, so no dainty drivers allowed . Dingable aluminium cone drivers are a definite no-no. BTW, IRL they aren't gaudy at all, certainly nothing like the new Kappa drivers that replaced them - those look like they would fit right in in a gangsta-mobile. The cone colour actually worked out to be a good match for the SUV's colour ("warm silver", according to Hyundai), but that wasn't the reason I chose them. 




cvjoint said:


> The Reference does seem to be rather hefty. Maybe the magnet material is low quality so they need more, a cost type tradeoff. 25lbs is too much for my car. My AE subs and the XXLS are in the 15lb category however, and they are ceramic type magnets. I am curios to see how much the Infinity weighs. The websites say 13lb which is about right. Neo's need heatsinks to keep cool, foregoing some of the weight savings. Car audio subs also have some very nasty baskets, to look better supposedly which also brings the weight up.


The 122.7W basket seems to be simple stamped steel with what looks like an enamel coating. Quite sturdy, but nothing too special in the looks department. At least it won't rust like the stamped steel baskets of my old Shivas. The motor BTW is actually quite noisy at higher excursions, something I hoped Infinity would fix in the next iteration. I paid $100 each for mine, and I consider them good value for money at that price.


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## audioinfo (Dec 21, 2010)

Boston's SPG 555 

Have 3 of them and I'm pretty happy with the weight vs output. Besides even with a ported box still able to fit a suitcase and golf clubs in the back of my truck.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

audioinfo said:


> Boston's SPG 555
> 
> Have 3 of them and I'm pretty happy with the weight vs output. Besides even with a ported box still able to fit a suitcase and golf clubs in the back of my truck.


34lbs or so is a lot imo. Here's the in house test on it as well, not exactly clean:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/11023-boston-spg-555-a.html


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## audioinfo (Dec 21, 2010)

cvjoint said:


> 34lbs or so is a lot imo. Here's the in house test on it as well, not exactly clean:
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/11023-boston-spg-555-a.html


Cvjoint the thread stated "current neo subwoofers"

It actually weighs in at 26lbs not light however for the power handling you'd be hard pressed to find a woofer as light that has the specs to take it.

I was simply giving my opinion on a product I have expierience with however thank you for cluing in as the "great one".

I've read the "in house" lab review here on the spg. I read lots of articles with that said and I have a sound mind to decipher information for myself. It was just that a "lab review" not real world in car useage as well. I don't think those of us who've shelled out the money for these subwoofers have been disappointed. They are a great sq woofer in many opinions vs. what the lab tests suggest. 

Having that said I was giving my "real world" suggestion... Thank you


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

audioinfo said:


> Cvjoint the thread stated "current neo subwoofers"
> 
> It actually weighs in at 26lbs not light however for the power handling you'd be hard pressed to find a woofer as light that has the specs to take it.
> 
> ...


You are giving your suggestions and so am I. Why is it that my input is taboo? I see that you like the real world. What exactly is a Klippel test, fantasy land? The major point was to point you towards the in house test in case you are not familiar with it. My bad.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Saw someone mention Focal earlier. FWIW, Focal does not make a Neo motor subwoofer. All the K2 woofers and Utopia be woofers are multi-ferrite magnets, not Neo. If they were Neo they'd cost 5 times more than they already do.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

The Vifa Ne 12" sub was tested in Voice Coil Mag in mid 2010. It turns out it has a Klippel verified xmax of 11.9mm using the 70% BL point. The suspension is unreal with 17.9mm throw at the 50% point. There is even an effort to curb inductance. I might just get them.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

They have that much excursion? I was thinking it was like 9 or so mm. PE has them on blow out too.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> They have that much excursion? I was thinking it was like 9 or so mm. PE has them on blow out too.


The article writer state something to the effect that the Klippel performance exceeds the physical limits of the motor. That is to say xmax was probably rated by some coil position rule of thumb. These are truly over-engineered for the price point. I wish they had the 8 ohm coil with neo heatsink instead at PE.


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## ash1990 (Aug 7, 2012)

B&C Speakers is a major supplier to the pro audio market in midrange, woofer and subwoofer cone drivers. We have made a strong commitment to provide a well-balanced line of LF drivers that range from 6” to 21” .

We have made refinements in our cone geometry, magnet assemblies and speaker production lines to create a dynamic and powerful lineup of speakers. The models that are included in this catalog all have:

* increased sensitivity
* increased power handling capacity
* increased excursion capabilities
* lower distortion levels

_____________________________________________
*Neodymium magnet *


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