# Helix DSP-whos got answers



## Mic10is

Helix C-DSP
P-DSP

Differences?

full specs?

audiotech-fischer website doesnt have a ton of info listed, just enough to get me very interested


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## rexroadj

My guy told me that the P-dsp is due here in a couple months! I really wanted the h800 or RF363 but after studying the manuals etc.... This seams to me to be the perfect unit (again, for me). Well that, and I LOVE brax/helix stuff 
Retails is going to be $599 which really makes it extra pretty IMO. I am sure that any dealers that look out for there regulars can get an even better deal. I know I will 
Also has toslink inputs and all the tweeking I could ever ask for. If I am the first one to get one, I will be sure to let everyone know my thoughts. I told my dealer the second they are available in the US I expect one in my truck


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## rexroadj

Mic10is said:


> Helix C-DSP
> P-DSP
> 
> Differences?
> 
> full specs?
> 
> audiotech-fischer website doesnt have a ton of info listed, just enough to get me very interested


I will post the manual links in a min!


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## rexroadj

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/ind...0240390&hash=7892a6f365faadb65a1f38541858d024
Thats the manual


Here is the PC Tool manual (how to operate)
http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/ind...0240390&hash=b30441055e26f950dde6fcad68c6706f


I dont know what the hell the C-dsp is???? The have the 5channel amps with built in DSP but those are the PP-50. Is the C-dsp the brax model I have heard about but never seen?


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## Mic10is

rexroadj said:


> http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/ind...0240390&hash=7892a6f365faadb65a1f38541858d024
> Thats the manual
> 
> 
> Here is the PC Tool manual (how to operate)
> http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/ind...0240390&hash=b30441055e26f950dde6fcad68c6706f
> 
> 
> I dont know what the hell the C-dsp is???? The have the 5channel amps with built in DSP but those are the PP-50. Is the C-dsp the brax model I have heard about but never seen?



Titel Ihrer Hompage, Ihres Shops

See P and C versions


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## AccordUno

Are the input channels broken into 3 different sources or combine as one source?


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## 1diki

The "C" version supposedly have some plus adjustments like a 1/24octave steps and Q adjustment 0.5-15 opposite to "P" version 1/12 octave steps and no Q andjustment.Plus 8Rca input and 8Hi input instead of 6+4.But the main difference should be the Twin power which is described as a two separate DSP processor in one unit as my german knowledge still serve a bit


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## ErinH

1diki said:


> The "C" version supposedly have some plus adjustments like a *1/24octave steps and Q adjustment 0.5-15* opposite to "P" version 1/12 octave steps and no Q andjustment.Plus 8Rca input and 8Hi input instead of 6+4.But the main difference should be the Twin power which is described as a two separate DSP processor in one unit as my german knowledge still serve a bit


that's bad... ass!


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## ecbmxer

Thats funny, I just read a thread talking about those earlier and wondered what the deal was also.


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## subwoofery

Helix | ceoutlook.com 

From what I've gathered, the C-version has more tuning power: 1/24dB oct EQ instead of 1/12dB with a Q curve in 0.5 increment ranging from 0.5 to 15 instead of a fixed Q curve of 4.3
2 x 56-Bits DSP Chip instead of 1 
Seems like the C-version is expandable too (hardware wise). Not much more info

P is for Precision line and C for the Competition line 

Kelvin


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## 1diki

bikinpunk said:


> that's bad... ass!


looks like it iiis but here is a price differenece in euro-more then twice

HELIX P DSP Digital Sound Processor - Soundprozessor / Equalizer / Audio Processor - Zubehör

HELIX P DSP Digital Sound Processor - Soundprozessor / Equalizer / Audio Processor - Zubehör

you can change the launguage to english up in the page.


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## senior800

UK retail are £350 and £700 respectively.


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## Ale555

If you want it easy: The C-DSP is two P-DSPs in one. So 2 chipsets instead of one.
The second big thing is the chipsets in the D/A A/D transformation. As the C-DSP uses special japanese ones, you may get an idea why that unit is delayed. 
And the signal to niose ratio is 114dB (instead of 107/112dB analog/digital).

As I am informed I will have my first touch with the C-DSP in about 2 weeks. It will be the exchange for the existing P-DSP.

So, to the P-DSP: I have never had a NEW DSP with so few problems.  (BTW: I am not paid nor am I an a Brax Team or whatsoever...I am not affiliated to ANY car audio producers/retailer/whatever - but earned my money in that business once)
The type of input/output selection is well known to me, even befor ethat unit as I was once inside a planning team for such a unit. 
You may dawonload the software and check for yourself. Setup is very easy and up-to-date. No hassle or shizzle to have the first connection (like Alpine F1 or so). Plug and play at its best.
Then you select which input you want to use and what output shall use which input. Sounds nice BUT when doing so be sure to NOT have an amp connected- or even speakers. There will be bad noises, believe me.
When you come over to the Setup screen it is pretty easy to handle and mainly does what you want it to. If you want a -3.5dB dip with a Q of 1.2 at 635Hz-you´ll get it. And not a dip of -3dB or -4dB with a Q from 1-1.5 at 600 or 650Hz...
When you use the EQ the unit does not seem to have big stress with that (unlike a DRZ9255 for example). But I did not try to much with that, maybe once the C-DSP is there I will make a direct check. (As you can directly change settings from one to the other DSP from the same Software.) 
I´d guess if you use the EQ pretty hard (as now only Pioneer can work with it-Alpine struggels with +5dB settings) the difference should show up.
The unit keeps the stored settings even when power is disconnected. But if you interchange (why ever you should) the unit and upload the setting you have on your PC to the DSP- again no amp should be connected.

One thing I dislike actually is that the Software forgets what you name the channels. Instead of 
1 TW r
2 TW l
3 MID r
and so on, it will one day read the default again
1 FR l
2 FR r
and so on. But it is just the button that reads it. The settings will stay.
Ah and....when connecting RCAs...put the red in the white marked and the white in the red marked- this will make it easier later when setting the system up. 

The unit does not need excessive cooling (I like!) as well.

Sound is "Fischer like". Clean&direct. 
That is my first overview...any questions by now?


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## Ale555

subwoofery said:


> From what I've gathered, the C-version has more tuning power: 1/24dB oct EQ instead of 1/12dB with a Q curve in 0.5 increment ranging from 0.5 to 15 instead of a fixed Q curve of 4.3


That is not correct. You can change the Q in the same steps on both units.
The Homepage says the P-DSP can do from 4.3 to 15 but the unit does 0.5 to 15 aswell. (A Q with 4.3 as widest wouldn´t make to much sense anyway?!)
Only EQ-difference so far is 1/12 vs 1/24db per Octave setting. And I guess when stressed (means EQ used hard) the C-DSP can use its dual chipset better. But that is just guessing.


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## subwoofery

Ale555 said:


> That is not correct. You can change the Q in the same steps on both units.
> The Homepage says the P-DSP can do from 4.3 to 15 but the unit does 0.5 to 15 aswell. (A Q with 4.3 as widest wouldn´t make to much sense anyway?!)
> Only EQ-difference so far is 1/12 vs 1/24db per Octave setting. And I guess when stressed (means EQ used hard) the C-DSP can use its dual chipset better. But that is just guessing.


heh... I guess I read the manual wrong.  

Thanks for the correction, 
Kelvin


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## nepl29

Nice!!!


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## t3sn4f2

bikinpunk said:


> that's bad... ass!


There goes the p99


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## chefhow

t3sn4f2 said:


> There goes the p99


You still need a good transport.


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## t3sn4f2

chefhow said:


> You still need a good transport.


Absofruitly


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## t3sn4f2

There doesn't appear to be anyway to switch between inputs, other than picking a different preset through the PC. That socks.


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## ErinH

t3sn4f2 said:


> There goes the p99


I'm done being the guinea pig. I'll wait this one out.


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## chefhow

bikinpunk said:


> I'm done being the guinea pig. I'll wait this one out.


That's BS Erin!! Who's gonna tell us it sucks before it gets here?


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## Ale555

t3sn4f2 said:


> There doesn't appear to be anyway to switch between inputs, other than picking a different preset through the PC. That socks.


That is true for the moment,BUT at first: How often do you really change a setting? Also it is planned that they will have an App for Smartphones And you can control it via that And the bluetooth adaptor. If that works, I'd Love it!


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## ErinH

how is digital volume controlled (optical input volume)? Does it work like the mosconi where it sense voltage differential from the RCA inputs or does it have it's own controller like most DSPs?


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## Ale555

Ale555 said:


> That is true for the moment,BUT at first: How often do you really change a setting? Also it is planned that they will have an App for Smartphones And you can control it via that And the bluetooth adaptor. If that works, I'd Love it!


Wait, I forgot one thing: There is a "Control" button whith which you can switch settings. (But don´t know IF and how that works as I´ve severall settings on the PC and only push "the one" over to the DSP.)

The optical in is a TOSLINK (S/PDIF)but I have no definitinformation how it is regulated. But as any other option is missing, I´d guess by taking the RCA signal strength.


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## t3sn4f2

Ale555 said:


> That is true for the moment,BUT at first: *How often do you really change a setting?* Also it is planned that they will have an App for Smartphones And you can control it via that And the bluetooth adaptor. If that works, I'd Love it!


Source setting? So we don't have to spend a $1000 on a head unit with a clean enough analog stage to match that of a $100 digital output from a portable source? Unfortunately not as much as we should.

An iPhone with a Apple digital av adapter. The USB out goes to an OEM head unit that navigates the ipod app. The hdmi out goes to an hdmi to s/pdif extractor. inferior high-level out from an base head unit goes into the DSP and so does the high quality digital out of the iPhone. We switch sources with one button press on the DSP and the radio volume control handle the DSP master volume setting. 

Perfect quality, good media file navigation, all for less then $200 if you have the media player and a head unit that controls the idevice.

I'm still interested to here how master volume control can be done from the analog input signal strength IF music is a dynamic random voltage source that the volume dial can not use as a reference. I can see it with a fixed pure tone playing but I don't understand how otherwise.


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## Ale555

You may be right for the source setting in theory. But my question goes to the real world. I don´t know one person who is changing the setting when changing the source.
Why: Normally you set it up via CD, as it is the "best quality" input normally. Then you live with that "low quality" radio signals and that "cutted" AUX or USB inputs.
I´ve just measured all the inputs of my C30, CD was clearly better, AUX is the worst, USB is "okay"...
With that in mind I know that if I want best quality, I´ll use a CD as source. If I am just driving my way I´ll use an iPod for simplicity.
But that is just my mind and some things I learned over the years.

If you want to switch the setting you can do that via switch on the DSP (in normal driving situation not a good idea), via Laptop or else connected while driving or wait until the bluetooth adaptor is available. Or you´d have to use another DSP like the BitOne or H800 with a control unit.

I don´t know if we mean the same by analog input signal strenght: Via RCA is meant, or? And RCAs change the Voltage, that´s it. Or what do you mean with that?


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## carson

Hello i got the P-DSP last weeks and ik looks realy nice, i lookt at the software and that lookt realy good. There is only one probleem my car audio is by fat not ready for testing .

I wil go with the folowing parts:

RS 6.3 whit double mid/bass fully active on 2 E400 amps.
SXPL woofer on the SXPL amp.
Original Audi Rns-d headunit Audi S4 B5

I gone start a project page in some weeks.

Greatings from The Netherlands


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## subwoofery

Pics... We need pictures!!!!! 

Kelvin


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## carson

I will make some pics tomorow when im on my bussines again.


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## t3sn4f2

Ale555 said:


> You may be right for the source setting in theory. But my question goes to the real world. I don´t know one person who is changing the setting when changing the source.
> Why: Normally you set it up via CD, as it is the "best quality" input normally. Then you live with that "low quality" radio signals and that "cutted" AUX or USB inputs.
> I´ve just measured all the inputs of my C30, CD was clearly better, AUX is the worst, USB is "okay"...
> With that in mind I know that if I want best quality, I´ll use a CD as source. If I am just driving my way I´ll use an iPod for simplicity.
> But that is just my mind and some things I learned over the years.
> 
> If you want to switch the setting you can do that via switch on the DSP (in normal driving situation not a good idea), via Laptop or else connected while driving or wait until the bluetooth adaptor is available. Or you´d have to use another DSP like the BitOne or H800 with a control unit.
> 
> *I don´t know if we mean the same by analog input signal strenght: Via RCA is meant, or? And RCAs change the Voltage, that´s it. Or what do you mean with that?*


There is a post in the mosconi DSP thread were it states that master volume control is handled by the head unit, even for the digital inputs (ie a totally different source). I don't see how this would be possible, assuming it uses the preout amplitude from the head unit as a reference for what volume setting the dsp is set at. All the volume control does is reduce the output voltage but there isn't any consistent output voltage to reference to in order to assign volume detent to in the DSP. I can see if a pure tone was coming out of the head unit all the time, then the dsp would reference its analog in and assign 0dB out when it read say 2 volts coming in (ie max head unit volume setting. Then -1dB or whatever to the next lower voltage point it is referenced to. So on and so on till the last -xdB chosen. But without that steady tone, there isn't a reference. You could be listening to classical at max head unit volume setting and the signal be -50dB and then it could go to -3dB. What's the DSP to make of that randomness.

That being said, I'm sure there is a way because this is the second time I read about this function being possible. Andy W. from JBL mentioned they were working on something like this for future processors. So it's possible, I just don't understand how.


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## Ale555

t3sn4f2 said:


> *There is a post in the mosconi DSP thread were it states that master volume control is handled by the head unit, even for the digital inputs (ie a totally different source).* I don't see how this would be possible, assuming it uses the preout amplitude from the head unit as a reference for what volume setting the dsp is set at. All the volume control does is reduce the output voltage but there isn't any consistent output voltage to reference to in order to assign volume detent to in the DSP. I can see if a pure tone was coming out of the head unit all the time, then the dsp would reference its analog in and assign 0dB out when it read say 2 volts coming in (ie max head unit volume setting. Then -1dB or whatever to the next lower voltage point it is referenced to. So on and so on till the last -xdB chosen. But without that steady tone, there isn't a reference. You could be listening to classical at max head unit volume setting and the signal be -50dB and then it could go to -3dB. What's the DSP to make of that randomness.
> 
> That being said, I'm sure there is a way because this is the second time I read about this function being possible. Andy W. from JBL mentioned they were working on something like this for future processors. So it's possible, I just don't understand how.


Okay, As I did not read that I was not aware of this post. I also have no idea how this should work (as you cannot make a "loud" or "silent" brightness, it´s digital so 0 or 1...)

What pictures are needed? That (Klickme!) is where it is in...


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## carson

Here are the pictures!


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## nepl29

Nice!!!thanks for the pics!!


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## ErinH

so, where/who do we order these from if we're in the States?

Not that I'm going to get one... would just like to know the outlets available.

Thanks


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## 6spdcoupe

bikinpunk said:


> so, where/who do we order these from if we're in the States?
> 
> Not that I'm going to get one... would just like to know the outlets available.
> 
> Thanks


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## ErinH

do I have to call you? lol!


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## 6spdcoupe

bikinpunk said:


> do I have to call you? lol!


You do that just for my sexy voice anyway.


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## nepl29

6spdcoupe said:


>


I'm 5 minutes late


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## ErinH

*he's on to me!*


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## Ale555

2 weeks to go until I can crosscheck the C-DSP via the P-DSP...


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## roduk

Thought I'd chime in over here rather than post up all the questions which have been answered over here by Ale555... I do have a couple of questions though - 

How does it sound with RCA input? I have a MX406 with an Alto UCS Pro atm, and I am therefore restricted to six channels of output - I want to get the Velodyne in the system singing so need 7 - The Brax seems a natural fit.. 

I was going to get a H800, but I really don't like the Alpine sound over the McIntosh HU, so my second question is what sort of sonic signature does the Brax add? (Hopefully none!)


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## Ale555

The car was run by a HX-D2 (DRZ-9255) before. This is now set to direct mode and via RCA into the Helix.
It sounds just like a Fischer product. Like it is not there. Even tough I dislike that in the amps (I prefer the Genesis sound), I found pleasure that the DSP does that.

I wanted to go with the H800 via RCA in my V70, too. But after using the Helix I´ll take that one. 
It is way more flexible, too. (In EQ, Xover,...) Maybe too much for some guys I know. 

BUT: If you have an Alpine unit, stick to the H800 as the digital signal transmission is hard to beat.

But coming from the Alto, you won´t regret either of them...


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## roduk

Thanks for replying.. I'm off to download the software!!!

OK had a play and it looks good and pretty easy to understand... 

A superb range of Xover goodies.. I love the way output ganging works and then you can just select the channel to do L/R eq afterwards etc..

But, I love a parametric EQ, especially as I'm running Horns and can get them into line sonically with one band of parametric eq on the Alto - I see that in the software for the PP50 there is a parametric eq in addition to the Graphic EQ on the bottom right corner, but on the 8 channel C-DSP (Which I want to use) it just has EQ fine tuning, not a parametric!?! 

Am I missing something or have they dropped the parametric EQ on the 8 channel job??


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## ErinH

anyone happen to have a link for the software? I tried to d/l it today from the link posted here but the page says "access denied". I'm assuming they shut the link down.


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## carson

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/fileadmin/user/P&P-Setups/Software/PC-Tool/PC-Tool Rev 2-00.zip this one still works.


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## Mic10is

anyone who has the P-DSP and or can get one please pm me.


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## subwoofery

Mic10is said:


> anyone who has the P-DSP and or can get one please pm me.


Don't wanna wait for the Competition version? C-DSP? 

Kelvin


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## rexroadj

My dealer is on his rep like white on rice about getting me one the second they are available in the US.... 

Mic,
If you want one from overseas I know of a great german site.... I will put the link up here in a few..... They are great to deal with and the prices are pretty damn good to boot!


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## rexroadj

Sorry Mic, 
I forgot to post the link to the store if your interested. They have been great to deal with in the past....
C-dsp conversion-$1270 minus shipping) HELIX C DSP Digital Sound Processor

P-dsp (conversion-$564 minus shipping) HELIX P DSP Digital Sound Processor


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## EternalGraphics808

Does the "C" come with an external volume control (as the BitOne does)?


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## Mic10is

rexroadj said:


> Sorry Mic,
> I forgot to post the link to the store if your interested. They have been great to deal with in the past....
> C-dsp conversion-$1270 minus shipping) HELIX C DSP Digital Sound Processor
> 
> P-dsp (conversion-$564 minus shipping) HELIX P DSP Digital Sound Processor


Thanks for the options. Im looking at options and hoping to find one under retail.
US Release date is end of August for the P-DSP
late Sept/Early Oct for the C-Dsp


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## ErinH

^ I've not forgotten you.


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## rexroadj

Mic10is said:


> Thanks for the options. Im looking at options and hoping to find one under retail.
> US Release date is end of August for the P-DSP
> late Sept/Early Oct for the C-Dsp


As am I...My local shop's price is the same (little less actually).

Obviously you and I have different needs for processing.... Me= weekend warrior....You= extreme competitor 

So I will likely be fine with the P-dsp.....If you go the Helix route will you wait for the C-DSP? Just curious what people are thinking between the two? I am just not sure I need the C-dsp for what I have and do.


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## Mic10is

P-DSP does more than most processors available.
Ive won 2 Championships with an H700---so Id be fine w the Pdsp for now.

C-DSP maybe for next season. C adds more inputs and a little bit more control but bascially everything else is the same


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## Ale555

I would NEVER buy at the Shop which was linked to. Mans People over here have Problems with them.

There is no external Display like on the B1, but there will Be an "app" for Smartphones.


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## ErinH

Ale555 said:


> There is no external Display like on the B1, but there will Be an "app" for Smartphones.


you may have just sold me...

any info on this?


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## BowDown

bikinpunk said:


> you may have just sold me...
> 
> any info on this?


That would be awesome to control your DSP through a bluetooth smart phone app.


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## subwoofery

bikinpunk said:


> you may have just sold me...
> 
> any info on this?


Just wait for a few people to use it first... Resist Erin, resist...  

Kelvin


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## ErinH

trust me, I'm not looking to buy a processor any time soon. I am taking notes, however.


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## Ale555

That´s what ATF states: "Compatible with the HELIX Optical & Bluetooth Interface, which will soon go on the market – this makes it possible to operate the system using a Smartphone and to configure it with a PC"

Well, I will believe it when I have my phone in hands controlling one of the units. 
But IF they´ll manage that to run- one ov the greatest inventions for a long time. No need for a second Display/knob to install..."cool"...maybe remote control function on shows?


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## nepl29

rexroadj said:


> Sorry Mic,
> I forgot to post the link to the store if your interested. They have been great to deal with in the past....
> C-dsp conversion-$1270 minus shipping) HELIX C DSP Digital Sound Processor
> 
> P-dsp (conversion-$564 minus shipping) HELIX P DSP Digital Sound Processor


Im pretty sure those prices include 19% VAT which us NA guys should not be subject to paying.


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## sqnut

I have a couple of questions for the guy who has used these units.

First on the eq. In my 2 way I have the mids bandpassed from 50-2khz. I would typically eq each driver an octave above and below this range. So with the 30 bands that I get on each driver, I would use the eq across say 8 ocataves which is roughly 8 oct's and hence 24 bands. The top six bands on the eq would just be attenuated to the max. 

It seems that there is a second level on the eq where I can go back and fine tune at 1/12-1/24 oct level on different q's. Is this in addition to the 30 bands above or is it an either or case?

Time alginment is in 7mm increments, thats 0.02ms, 0.27" .

What about xover points and slopes? It would take a while for the ears and mind to settle in at tuning at these levels. Tweaking with this would be a great ride though.

Just based on the specs and the users feedback these units look like a cut above everything in its class. I think a lot of competitors may switch to these units.


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## Mic10is

sqnut said:


> I have a couple of questions for the guy who has used these units.
> 
> First on the eq. In my 2 way I have the mids bandpassed from 50-2khz. I would typically eq each driver an octave above and below this range. So with the 30 bands that I get on each driver, I would use the eq across say 8 ocataves which is roughly 8 oct's and hence 24 bands. The top six bands on the eq would just be attenuated to the max.
> 
> It seems that there is a second level on the eq where I can go back and fine tune at 1/12-1/24 oct level on different q's. Is this in addition to the 30 bands above or is it an either or case?
> 
> Time alginment is in 7mm increments, thats 0.02ms, 0.27" .
> 
> What about xover points and slopes? It would take a while for the ears and mind to settle in at tuning at these levels. Tweaking with this would be a great ride though.
> 
> Just based on the specs and the users feedback these units look like a cut above everything in its class. I think a lot of competitors may switch to these units.


EQ is 30 band graphic with parametric adjustment. you can adjust the Q of the band to make it wider or shallower.
you can also adjust the frequency to the exact number you need.
Say you normally use a graphic and pick 1.6khz to cut...you can go in and adjust it to be 1.7 or 1.8 with a very Narrow Q. you can go down to 1580 or 1840hz
or you can widen the Q so you also cut the neighboring frequencies. Q is adjustable between .05 to 15

you get 6db of boost and -15 of cut.


Time alignment is adjustable in .2ms. Up to 10.4ms of delay!!! or 144.3inches or 353.3cm. 0-180 phase on all outputs but sub
Sub has 0-360 degree phase change in 22.5degrees---very helpful for sub integration/transition w midbass

Crossover adjustable anywhere between 20hz and 20,480hz. with different filter type and slope options. you can also link and unlink channels etc...


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## BowDown

Wow that's a pretty crazy processor right there. Looks like it has the potential to overcome alot of car audio environment issues.


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## senior800

rexroadj said:


> Sorry Mic,
> I forgot to post the link to the store if your interested. They have been great to deal with in the past....
> C-dsp conversion-$1270 minus shipping) HELIX C DSP Digital Sound Processor
> 
> P-dsp (conversion-$564 minus shipping) HELIX P DSP Digital Sound Processor


I'm not a helix dealer but could potentially (I don't want too and don't message me about these) get them to America for roughly $400 and $700 plus delivery respectably. 

(P-dsp is available now, c-dsp hopefully in the next week or so.)

Am really not interested in doing it though as it's difficult to do as you guys don't have to pay VAT on them.

Saying this though if somebody wants a C-dsp for that price + 20% tax, then I'm coming back to America in the middle of August so wouldn't mind bringing one with me, if somebody buys it and allows me to put it on my test bench for a couple of weeks first  (against a pxa-h800)


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## sqnut

Mic10is said:


> EQ is 30 band graphic with parametric adjustment. you can adjust the Q of the band to make it wider or shallower.
> you can also adjust the frequency to the exact number you need.
> Say you normally use a graphic and pick 1.6khz to cut...you can go in and adjust it to be 1.7 or 1.8 with a very Narrow Q. you can go down to 1580 or 1840hz
> or you can widen the Q so you also cut the neighboring frequencies. Q is adjustable between .05 to 15
> 
> you get 6db of boost and -15 of cut.
> 
> 
> Time alignment is adjustable in .2ms. Up to 10.4ms of delay!!! or 144.3inches or 353.3cm. 0-180 phase on all outputs but sub
> Sub has 0-360 degree phase change in 22.5degrees---very helpful for sub integration/transition w midbass
> 
> Crossover adjustable anywhere between 20hz and 20,480hz. with different filter type and slope options. you can also link and unlink channels etc...


The eq bit makes sense now. Thanks Mic. Wow!! The span of control and the and the accuracy with which you can set things, is amazing on this unit.


----------



## Ale555

sqnut: Just download the PC-Tool for free, there you can see what it is capable of. 

And the DSP is only available if the dealer can show it to you in real. Just as a hint...


----------



## rexroadj

I already gave my shop a deposit for one...He is AGRESSIVELY ON THE HUNT!

Although it doesnt really matter to me now.....Driving home this afternoon my truck caught on fire and melted to the ground  Gonna have to start all over...... Its been a rough frigging month!


----------



## PiastXD

got my helix dsp 2 days ago:
Setup: Alpine 9855 digital @ Helix P-DSP
Micro Precision Serie 7 MK III @ Arc Audio 2075se
Andrian Audio 165g @ Zapco c2k 6.0x
Atomic Apocalypse @ Zapco c2k 9.0

its amazing, used the bitone and the intern dsp of the zapco ref dc 1000.4
both sucks againt the Helix DSP.
no problems, no whirring, hope its the right word 
never wanna have any other DSP! if you can get one, buy it


----------



## Ale555

Which SW version?


----------



## PiastXD

2.00


----------



## fish

rexroadj said:


> I already gave my shop a deposit for one...He is AGRESSIVELY ON THE HUNT!
> 
> Although it doesnt really matter to me now.....Driving home this afternoon my truck caught on fire and melted to the ground  Gonna have to start all over...... Its been a rough frigging month!


Off Topic, but HOLY ****!!! What the hell happened to your truck?!


----------



## rexroadj

fish said:


> Off Topic, but HOLY ****!!! What the hell happened to your truck?!


This


----------



## chefhow

rexroadj said:


> This


HOW?!?!? And thank goodness you're ok.


----------



## rexroadj

chefhow said:


> HOW?!?!? And thank goodness you're ok.


No clue how? Driving along, gauges go dead, brakes dissapear, finally pull over to a stop, turn off truck and out come the flames....Truck was engulfed in about a min or less.... Honestly Howard.... sometimes I wish I just stayed in the damn thing....Been a rough couple months!


----------



## chefhow

rexroadj said:


> No clue how?!


YGPM


----------



## rexroadj

Thank you Howard! Your a good man!


----------



## fish

Damn! That's just crazy! Glad you're OK.


----------



## rexroadj

fish said:


> Damn! That's just crazy! Glad you're OK.


Thanks!


----------



## PiastXD

here a pic of mine


----------



## Ale555

That´s mine (by the end of this week...). 









@Piast: A weng mehr müh hätst Dir scho geb´n könn!


----------



## wdemetrius1

PiastXD said:


> here a pic of mine




What's your impression so far?


----------



## Ale555

It is said, that the "Smartphone Remote" App will NOT be available for iPhone´s due to their Bluetooth protocol...


----------



## rexroadj

Ale555 said:


> It is said, that the "Smartphone Remote" App will NOT be available for iPhone´s due to their Bluetooth protocol...


OH Boo Hoo!!!! Something audio related not built around the god damn iphone:mean:


Just kidding.....well kinda....the whole iphone only compatibility with car audio pisses me off! I love my droid but if you have an iphone and a p-dsp then that does suck.


----------



## trigg007

Ale555 said:


> That´s mine (by the end of this week...).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Piast: A weng mehr müh hätst Dir scho geb´n könn!


 

Jesus!!! That photo is only missing a chick in a bikini




this processor sounds interesting...


----------



## nepl29

any update on the C model?


----------



## PiastXD

in some shops here in germany its still for sale right now, but i dont know, if they are really out for sale


----------



## nepl29

PiastXD said:


> in some shops here in germany its still for sale right now, but i dont know, if they are really out for sale


Please keep us updated. i would love to purchase one


----------



## PiastXD

if i dont forget, i can call Audiotec Fischer the next days and ask them


----------



## Ale555

No need to call, I am updated. 
Even IF shops should have one unit left (which I doubt) I would not buy that unit and wait for the new ones beeing delivered, hardware changes in minor things - but with effect. 

Delivery of the new ones should be since last monday - SHOULD! As everytime since April you´ll get the answer "In 2 weeks." when asking for a estimated delivery. I only believe it when it arrives finally.


----------



## PiastXD

Ale555 said:


> No need to call, I am updated.
> Even IF shops should have one unit left (which I doubt) I would not buy that unit and wait for the new ones beeing delivered, hardware changes in minor things - but with effect.
> 
> Delivery of the new ones should be since last monday - SHOULD! As everytime since April you´ll get the answer "In 2 weeks." when asking for a estimated delivery. I only believe it when it arrives finally.


woher haste die Info...direkt von Stephan?


----------



## subwoofery

I know it's an Helix thread but I thought that would interest some of you hardcore guyz : 
Buwalda Hybrids International Bulletin Board • View topic - UK 807 MPV Build 

Kelvin


----------



## PiastXD

yes, the MM68 comes the next days. If it works, like Miketta said, it will be an amazing processor.


----------



## nepl29

Any updates guys??


----------



## Mic10is

nepl29 said:


> Any updates guys??


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1439857-post65.html


----------



## ErinH

I'm still holding out for the C-DSP. I know one thing... the software was kickass while they had it up to play with.


----------



## Mic10is

bikinpunk said:


> I'm still holding out for the C-DSP. I know one thing... the software was kickass while they had it up to play with.


Audiotec Fischer GmbH | German Car Hifi | Brax -- Helix -- G-Control : Download

Software--you can download and use it in demo mode

after you get used to actually configuring everything, especially inputs and outputs which can be confusing..its pretty straight forward

its nice to have everything on ONE screen. no menus to jump through, no extra buttons to click.

this is especially True using Time alignment and phase.
you can goto overview and have everything right in front of you....
360 degree phase control in 22.5degrees over sub is AWESOME!!!!...talk about the ability to match phase response with Midbass to really bring bass up front with rear mounted subs..

1/3octave EQ with 1/16 freq adjustment is nice as well. and the ability to adjust the Q to take down broad or narrow peaks. no more jumping band to band to band using a narrow Q filter.

So far, after some initial trouble getting things set up...its pretty damn nice to have this much control....Ive been an H700 user since i imported the 1st one into the US in 2002

only advantage the Alpine pieces have is the external DIn controller, made it very easy to tune and access presets.

the P-DSP must have a PC connected to make any adjustments or change settings or presets

but the control it has is amazing:biggrinflip:


----------



## pankrok

subscribed (fro c-dsp and bt interface info)


----------



## Ale555

The first C-DSPs are around for tests...let´s see how long it´ll take this time. 

@Piast: Mmh, teilweise.  

And for the 6to8...IF is the main word there. Release was planed...WHEN? 1 year ago? one and a half?


----------



## Mic10is

Ale555 said:


> The first C-DSPs are around for tests...let´s see how long it´ll take this time.
> 
> @Piast: Mmh, teilweise.
> 
> And for the 6to8...IF is the main word there. Release was planed...WHEN? 1 year ago? one and a half?


Ill gladly test the C-DSP for US Release...you know, bc its a completely different climate and um other stuff....


----------



## strakele

Can anyone with the P version confirm that you can change settings from an SD card without having a PC connected?

Also, what's the difference between a parametric EQ and a graphic EQ with adjustable Q like on this unit?


----------



## Mic10is

You cannot change settings from SD card. You can store on an SD card but you need a laptop

download the software (its free) and play w/ the EQ. its a graphic interface but you can change the frequency selected to gain more control and then you can change the Q of the freq.
so if you pick 1.6khz on the graphic and cut it by 6db, you can change it to 1500 something Hz or 1700hz something and change the Q anywhere between 4.3 to like 15

adjustments are in REAL TIME, so there is no lag like there are with other processors
when you change it, you hear it


----------



## subwoofery

Mic10is said:


> You cannot change settings from SD card. You can store on an SD card but you need a laptop
> 
> download the software (its free) and play w/ the EQ. its a graphic interface but you can change the frequency selected to gain more control and then you can change the Q of the freq.
> so if you pick 1.6khz on the graphic and cut it by 6db, you can change it to 1500 something Hz or 1700hz something and change the Q anywhere between 4.3 to like 15
> 
> adjustments are in REAL TIME, so there is no lag like there are with other processors
> when you change it, you hear it


Seems like Audiotec Fischer did their homework  

Kelvin


----------



## eviling

Mic10is said:


> You cannot change settings from SD card. You can store on an SD card but you need a laptop
> 
> download the software (its free) and play w/ the EQ. its a graphic interface but you can change the frequency selected to gain more control and then you can change the Q of the freq.
> so if you pick 1.6khz on the graphic and cut it by 6db, you can change it to 1500 something Hz or 1700hz something and change the Q anywhere between 4.3 to like 15
> 
> adjustments are in REAL TIME, so there is no lag like there are with other processors
> when you change it, you hear it


noen of the links posted on this thead seem to work you got a new source or could you host it on a file share to share with us?  

also, i just spoke to a local shop whos a RF dealer about getting ahold of helix gear, but it seems that particular shop can't get ahold of them as thier rep doesn't come around very often. im gonna keep looking, if anybody can help me get ahold of one let me know.


----------



## strakele

Mic10is said:


> You cannot change settings from SD card. You can store on an SD card but you need a laptop


On the product page, it says:

MicroSD slot to upload DSP settings, without connecting the DSP to a PC


I get that I won't be able to change settings on the SD card, but once I'm happy with a tune, could I have, say, 1 SD card for my competition tune and a separate one for my daily driving tune, and just be able to swap between the 2 without connecting a laptop?


----------



## Ale555

AFAIR you may change the settings with the button on the side of the P-DSP. Never tried it tough...


----------



## strakele

Ale555 said:


> AFAIR you may change the settings with the button on the side of the P-DSP. Never tried it tough...


Would you or anyone who has one be willing to try this out?


----------



## chefhow

strakele said:


> Would you or anyone who has one be willing to try this out?


Mic has a unit he has been using, you may want to reach out and ask him directly.


----------



## Mic10is

chefhow said:


> Mic has a unit he has been using, you may want to reach out and ask him directly.


uh its 30 degrees outside. I aint goin outside to press any buttons anytime soon


----------



## strakele

Was planning on it if he or the guy above me don't come back to this thread. I'm not in a rush.. Just trying to figure out what I'm going to be running for my first official MECA season. Basically between this and the Mosconi.


----------



## Mic10is

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/file...HELIX DSP PC-Tool Instruction Manual July.pdf

manual for anyone who hasnt read it

Yes it appears you can upload a setting from an SD card (based on what manual says) but you wouldnt be able to select a setting.

Its the one major downside of the processor is ease of having multiple presets. 
But when hooked to a laptop I already have like 12 different files saved from different tuning sessions.


----------



## strakele

Ok cool. I just ask because after getting a bunch of presets that I like, I'd just save each one to an individually labeled SD card. That way I could switch between them without having to drag out the computer. A very useful feature, I'd say.


----------



## Mic10is

strakele said:


> Ok cool. I just ask because after getting a bunch of presets that I like, I'd just save each one to an individually labeled SD card. That way I could switch between them without having to drag out the computer. A very useful feature, I'd say.


eh...that approach seems like more work to me...but I do hear you about draggin out the laptop...big reason I havent really retuned my car at all since Finals.

Im looking for a smaller laptop too.

what I do like about the SD card is that having a good file on hand can be VERY helpful should something happen, where you have a memory dump or something and dont have access to a PC.

Please read both Software and install manual carefully and go back and read thru each post...prior to set up.


----------



## strakele

Will certainly do, if this is the one I end up going with. Still waiting to see what's up with the Mosconi.

I don't anticipate having a whole bunch of presets, (comp, daily, maybe a heavier bass one for when friends want it) so I don't foresee managing 2 or 3 SD cards to be very difficult. If I had 12.. Maybe


----------



## RMF419

This looks to be really nice, similar to the mini dsp's with all of the small road blocks removed.


----------



## ErinH

t3sn4f2 said:


> Source setting? So we don't have to spend a $1000 on a head unit with a clean enough analog stage to match that of a $100 digital output from a portable source? Unfortunately not as much as we should.
> 
> An iPhone with a Apple digital av adapter. The USB out goes to an OEM head unit that navigates the ipod app. The hdmi out goes to an hdmi to s/pdif extractor. inferior high-level out from an base head unit goes into the DSP and so does the high quality digital out of the iPhone. We switch sources with one button press on the DSP and the radio volume control handle the DSP master volume setting.
> 
> Perfect quality, good media file navigation, all for less then $200 if you have the media player and a head unit that controls the idevice.
> 
> I'm still interested to here how master volume control can be done from the analog input signal strength IF music is a dynamic random voltage source that the volume dial can not use as a reference. I can see it with a fixed pure tone playing but I don't understand how otherwise.


I'm gonna dig this back up, Frank...

Have you had a chance to toy with an ipod in the manner you suggest above? Using the usb from the dock connector to a headunit to control file selection/volume control and the optical out to get clean signal? Just wondering if it's possible.


----------



## evo9

revived!


Who's our resident dealer?





.


----------



## t3sn4f2

bikinpunk said:


> I'm gonna dig this back up, Frank...
> 
> Have you had a chance to toy with an ipod in the manner you suggest above? Using the usb from the dock connector to a headunit to control file selection/volume control and the optical out to get clean signal? Just wondering if it's possible.


Sorry I missed this post. As far as controlling the idevice while sending audio out the av adapter, no I haven't been able to test it myself. But "Unrealistic" in your review thread has gotten it to work with an alpine head unit. It looks to be hit or miss though.

Post #61 and on..... 

I can't comment on the volume control thing either. It would be a feature native to the processor itself, which I don't have. I haven't followed this thread too closely but did anyone ever comment on how the master volume control would be controlled via an analog input from the head unit?


----------



## Mic10is

t3sn4f2 said:


> Sorry I missed this post. As far as controlling the idevice while sending audio out the av adapter, no I haven't been able to test it myself. But "Unrealistic" in your review thread has gotten it to work with an alpine head unit. It looks to be hit or miss though.
> 
> Post #61 and on.....
> 
> I can't comment on the volume control thing either. It would be a feature native to the processor itself, which I don't have. I haven't followed this thread too closely but did anyone ever comment on how the master volume control would be controlled via an analog input from the head unit?


analog input you control volume through head unit
using the digital input is a different story. Some guys on Team Brax are working on a way to control that last I heard, but currently if u go digital in to the DSP--you get volume at 100%...which then leads you to change your underwear....but thats entirely a different subject


----------



## iD Z24

Wow... this does look like a very good system.


----------



## Mic10is

According to the US Brax/Helix Rep the P-DSP is now available through dealer in the US.
Most Rockford Fosgate Premium or whatever the top tier of RF dealer is called should be able to order it even if they donot carry Brax/Helix

the C-DSP is not coming till after the new year


----------



## evo9

Mic10is said:


> According to the US Brax/Helix Rep the P-DSP is now available through dealer in the US.
> Most Rockford Fosgate Premium or whatever the top tier of RF dealer is called should be able to order it even if they donot carry Brax/Helix
> 
> the C-DSP is not coming till after the new year




Thanks for the heads up!








.


----------



## Ale555

Since today the new PC Tool Software is available for download. (By now the write up of what is done is just available in german.)


----------



## Mic10is

Ale555 said:


> Since today the new PC Tool Software is available for download. (By now the write up of what is done is just available in german.)


translation services?


----------



## azngotskills

Any Premium RF dealer willing to order????  I would be interested in playing with one


----------



## ErinH

I think a lot of us would. 

I'm holding out for the cdsp, personally.


----------



## strakele

Anyone know the price you'll get quoted from a RF dealer?


----------



## subwoofery

strakele said:


> Anyone know the price you'll get quoted from a RF dealer?


Helix Offers 2 New Car DSPs | ceoutlook.com 

Tell them to sell it to you at that price or lower 

Kelvin


----------



## strakele

Oooh... I saw $500 posted here somewhere. Was hoping for more along that priceline.


----------



## ISTundra

There's a "premium" RF dealer down the street from my office so I stopped by there on my way home and asked about this. They didn't know what I was asking about, but they made a call to a contact at RF and here's the lowdown...

The P-DSP is in stock at RF's AZ warehouse. I was quoted $799, which I assume is MSRP. The PP50 unit is also in stock, FWIW.

I took the opportunity to ask about the 360.3. The response? cancelled...


----------



## Mic10is

P-DSP MAP pricing is $799. 
C-DSP Map is $1099, expected to ship to USA after the 1st of the year


----------



## iD Z24

Really... I cant keep up with all theses eq systems.


----------



## eviling

Mic10is said:


> P-DSP MAP pricing is $799.
> C-DSP Map is $1099, expected to ship to USA after the 1st of the year


the price in the US will be 799 for the P? thats some seriouse price gauging, even with conversions it's like 550-600 something i believe from germany. :mean: ive had contacts on here from germany who have quoted me the prices they can get them for.


----------



## The A Train

Mic10is said:


> analog input you control volume through head unit
> using the digital input is a different story. Some guys on Team Brax are working on a way to control that last I heard, but currently if u go digital in to the DSP--you get volume at 100%...which then leads you to change your underwear....but thats entirely a different subject



just to make things clear...if i opt for the digital input, headunit volume control will become voided and overall volume would be maxed out? i would definitly love to use digital inputs on my next dsp


----------



## ErinH

With the SNR ratings of the analog section, I'd personally not worry about it. I actually prefer analog. Less headache with volume control.


----------



## pankrok

if this should work like alpine, (as i think it does) , optical will accept non fading input and together with analog in , it calculates the desired volume position comparing these two signals (and finally master volume is after DACs on the preamp section). i m 90% sure that this what alpine does even on 701.
somebody with p dsp could verify it using similar configuration.
snr for me does not prove anything re SQ. surely is much better not to use an additional ADC on our signal regardless how "highend" is realised


----------



## t3sn4f2

pankrok said:


> if this should work like alpine, (as i think it does) , *optical will accept non fading input and together with analog in , it calculates the desired volume position comparing these two signals *(and finally master volume is after DACs on the preamp section). i m 90% sure that this what alpine does even on 701.
> somebody with p dsp could verify it using similar configuration.
> snr for me does not prove anything re SQ. surely is much better not to use an additional ADC on our signal regardless how "highend" is realised


-Shouldn't work that way and wouldn't need to either. Ainet is simply a way to transmit the volume control signals to the processor's volume control, be it ainet analog out or digital out. Think as a volume encoder that happens to have a head unit around it.

-Why is it better, it only need to be good enough so that all the factor that contribute to reduced resolution are below a certain limit and the sum of the analog out/in don't amount to a level more than that determined level. And seeing how the analog input of the helix is seems to be into the 19-20bit range, the only thing that matter then is the DAC of the device you feed it with. Which can easily be in the same resolution range and would result in the 16bit format being played back exactly as it would if the interface is digital. Erin mentions s/n ratio because that tends to be the only thing that realistically affects these analog interfaces.


----------



## pankrok

You might be right , I was thinking same before about the master volume on alpine but I read recently that actually was working as described using the analog signal on ainet cable . However I m not completely sure about this and I have no easy way to test it.
In any case for me analog input is still plan b. You also need a very long and good quality interconnect cable to have a chance to compare with "pure" optical.


----------



## ErinH

It's a tradeoff that I'll take. Dealing with having two different volume controls (or, using alpine's ai-net/optical combo) is out of the question for me. #1, two volume controls for analog and digital is ****ing retarded (pardon the french). #2, I'm not a fan of alpine headunits. The ones I do like don't have digi output anyway. So, there's really no reason for me to bother with digital. The only benefit I feel optical truly gives us is the lessened ability for noise (ie: alt whine) but then again, the only way you don't have RCAs connected is with alpine's ai-net setup.

That's just my take on it. I know PLENTY of people who are running alpine combos and love it. I've also dealt with the bitone and using the standard headunit volume control for analog (ipod, fm) and the bitone drc for digital (cd). The fact that you have to switch the source on the DSP's controller and then use one of two volume controls is just asinine.

So, in the end, I just see no advantage for optical that outweighs the issues I've listed above. I've done well in competition and popular opinion with a non-digital interface anyway, so I'm a bit jaded on optical. And, again, this is MY take on it. I'm not speaking for everyone, obviously.


----------



## eviling

alright, i dont know if it was really covered but it's being talked about. let me confirm with 100% certainy that volume control DOES NOT go over optical, is not calulated any way shape or form (as far as i'm told) via digital input, HOWEVER! their is a 6 pin harness on the side of the unit intended to be used with some pots for volume control and bass control, this is the selling point for me because i tie in my own pot and mount the pot i desire rather than use a gay little screen with a knob. works great for my carputer setup ive yet to use it, can't say if it's practical at all, but it has been tested and works from my sources. i still plan to import mine even if they come out before i have the cash as they are marking the price up for something lke 699$ when it can be had at like 530$ USD. imported. but idk than 30-40 for shipping but sitill gonna be cheaper


----------



## ErinH

Yes, we all understand that. Thus my post regarding using a different volume control for digital vs. headunit control with analog.

Like you, I was going to order one from the fellas on this site that can get them for us. However, I'm holding out for the c-dsp which has yet to be released. Otherwise, the p-dsp would already be in my car. 

*again, thanks to those who have offered to source me one, because I know you're watching this thread.*


----------



## eviling

bikinpunk said:


> Yes, we all understand that. Thus my post regarding using a different volume control for digital vs. headunit control with analog.
> 
> Like you, I was going to order one from the fellas on this site that can get them for us. However, I'm holding out for the c-dsp which has yet to be released. Otherwise, the p-dsp would already be in my car.
> 
> *again, thanks to those who have offered to source me one, because I know you're watching this thread.*


like i said, i only read like the first 3 posts asking about it, i was just trying to make sure the info was out their thats all. and i like you also considered the C, but after talking to a rather informed guy from germany about it, and the cost difference vrs the gains achieved are just astronomically retarted, like a 200% gain in price for a 10% gain in functionality and they both can achieve the same sound out of the same setup essencialy but i mean if i have the doe i'm all over the C like a fat kit at a bakery. 

by the by, i have 2 connections in germany, BOTH of their helix dealers are SOLD OUT untill next year. fortunately next year is next week. and please don't beroge me with requests for my contacts, germany is VERY watchful of fund transfers like these and the guys could do maybe 3 tops before their goverment locked up some **** on em. so if you so desire, i suggest posting in the classafies, their are tons of germans here, its just a matter of making a friend


----------



## Archso

Hi, I'm Massy from Italy
I found this interesting thread looking for some information about C-DSP.

If you want to know how to use the volume with digital IN, the answer that Audiotec gave to me is:

_Yes, there is a possibility to connect a remote control. Therefore the CONTROL INPUT can be used. The HELIX remote control will be available in about 2 month, but there is also the possibility to build your own remote control. If you do, you need only two 10kOhms potentiometers which will be connected to the control input. 

Best regards

Julian Fischer

AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg_


----------



## PiastXD

Yes it works well like audiotec Fischer wrote  Mine is still working amazing digital connected  

Sent from my GT-I9000


----------



## ErinH

eviling said:


> and i like you also considered the C, but after talking to a rather informed guy from germany about it, and the cost difference vrs the gains achieved are just astronomically retarted, like a 200% gain in price for a 10% gain in functionality and they both can achieve the same sound out of the same setup essencialy


+



eviling said:


> but i mean if i have the doe i'm all over the C like a fat kit at a bakery.


= me 

Why would you buy it if your source tells you there's no reason? I know why I want it and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 1/24 resolution. Just curious what benefits you see that are obviously not worth it, yet you would still buy it for?



eviling said:


> and please don't beroge me with requests for my contacts


dude, you and I both know that if you didn't want people to bother you with something, you don't put the information out there. 
All I'm saying is, don't go bragging about your resources, then telling everyone not to bug you about it. That's like saying you have free candy that you're not giving away. 


OT: And, for the love of all that is Holy, please use spellcheck! I know you've said you don't have time to check spelling here and that you type your college papers better so that means you're cognizant of your misspellings so, therefore, this isn't me picking on you... it's me asking you to consider this a college paper forum. 'Beroge' isn't a word. Take your time to type things correctly in a manner that I don't have to decipher these things.
/side rant


----------



## eviling

I never did make much sense :\ not even much to my self at times, especily when my faulty logic is pushed in my face  but really the tech specs alone apeal to me, it's got room for growth which can be very important to keep up with what comes out next  because i honest hope to not touch this car's sound system for at least 3 years once i get this project done XD granted 3 years is obviously not gonna make a difference in that aspect but I'd like to keep the processor through all builds, if it works, it works. well assuming it does work as advertised  but that is what apeals to me beyond the other features. i don't have any secrete about that unit that you don't though sadly  i do how ever know that the masconi unit is gonna be VERY nice, but the delays worry me, all the delays with all these companys worry me, helix just dropped their unit, alpine, RF, masconi, are all holding off, even though masconi bought a 80% done unit. alpines has been out for a year in other countrys, these are the reason helix has stood out to me as a stand up company, but than again they could of gotten lucky or just released bad items who knows  but from the feedback im seeing, it's not the second hand. 

and i said it because i don't think people realise this is an international forum, and in hopes they'd simply look up german users over PMing for my resources


----------



## PiastXD

masconi?
you mean mosconi?

best wishes from germany


----------



## eviling

PiastXD said:


> masconi?
> you mean mosconi?
> 
> best wishes from germany


never could spell that brand right, i always mix it up. swear i'm dyslexic.


----------



## The A Train

I talked to a local shop yesterday about ordering the p-dsp. He called his rep, and he is checking on availability. He said he is showing the price as $500 and he will see if he could get it down a bit more for me. If I can order one, would anyone else be on board for it? I can ask him about a bulk order and maybe get the price dropped some more.


----------



## Heath

I would do a group buy


----------



## The A Train

I cant make any promises, im just relaying what the salesman told me. i didnt ask about a group buy yet since im not even sure if they are availible but i will ask the next time i talk to him.


----------



## ErinH

I'm hearing that Helix is very protective of their dealer areas so I'd proceed with caution regarding transhipping.


----------



## strakele

I'd be interested if it works out.


----------



## audioanamoly

I've been trying really hard to get one (p-dsp), I've had two sources tell me that they had one or could get one. I sent the money and then had both switch up their story, one of them saying that they didn't have the "adapter" needed for the unit???? And the other saying that his source sold out and then tried to tell me I wasn't getting all of my money back. Thankfully, PayPal took care of everything and I got all of my cash back. My point is, be careful with whom you are dealing with "overseas". I already have a pretty much brand new PXA h-800/c800 combo in my possession that I haven't even had a chance to play with yet and will probably not even try out and just put it up for sale here very shortly (pm me if your interested, sorry for the thread-jack) if I can get my hands on one of the Helix units by the time I am done buying all of my new front stage drivers. My reasoning for letting the alpine go is that after playing with both software interfaces, I find the helix's fine tuning capabilities/2x the x-over points/4 different filter types make it much more appealing to a "tweeker" like me. On the flip side, the alpine's internals/build quality/input-output options/on the fly adjustments/steeper x-over slopes/ Auto TA, EQ, Road EQ, blah blah blah make it a great piece for users across the board. For me the Helix piece fits the bill...now if I can just get one!!!! Someone out there has one. It's just a matter of playing the waiting game.


----------



## ErinH

Mine should arrive today. 

I ordered it knowing that I would ultimately jump to the C-DSP. But, that release data isn't final and I needed to go ahead and get something in soon. I asked and was told, unfortunately, that the settings from the P cannot be carried over to the C. That's word from US Rockford. Now, if you European fellas' have found this to not be the case, LMK. 

I believe by now most everyone has seen this piece and toyed with the software so unless anyone really is interested I don't plan to do any sort of review. Of course, I can be swayed. 

- Erin


----------



## Mic10is

bikinpunk said:


> Mine should arrive today.
> 
> I ordered it knowing that I would ultimately jump to the C-DSP. But, that release data isn't final and I needed to go ahead and get something in soon. I asked and was told, unfortunately, that the settings from the P cannot be carried over to the C. That's word from US Rockford. Now, if you European fellas' have found this to not be the case, LMK.
> 
> I believe by now most everyone has seen this piece and toyed with the software so unless anyone really is interested I don't plan to do any sort of review. Of course, I can be swayed.
> 
> - Erin


id like to see your review.


----------



## sqnut

x2


----------



## ErinH

We've squared it away. 

Back on topic...


----------



## ErinH

a few pictures:


----------



## vactor

couldn't find any info on news or dealers or software at Helix ...


----------



## ErinH

Not sure about dealers, but check here for details and info (as well as a software download):
Audiotec Fischer GmbH | German Car Hifi | Brax -- Helix -- G-Control : Download


----------



## vactor

so where can i find the inf o this unit again? this topic go a bit nuked today LOL 
i can't find the software or anything on the US site ...


----------



## ErinH

vactor said:


> so where can i find the inf o this unit again? this topic go a bit nuked today LOL
> i can't find the software or anything on the US site ...


It's all in the link I have above. The software download is there along with user manuals.


----------



## sqnut

I'm curious about the added control on the eq, where you can fine tune between the 31 octaves. I'm still commig to grips on tweaking the eq in 0.2-3 db's on the bit ten. The ability to tweak between the bands, would be yet another layer. That and the variable phase control on the sub. 

Are you going to use an RTA to dial it in or an RTA + teak by ear? Congrats.


----------



## vactor

is there a working link to the software and manual for the p-dsp? the front page links don't work anymore

p.s.
and page 5 keeps sending me back to page 4. can't seem to view the last page of this thread.


----------



## ErinH

sqnut said:


> I'm curious about the added control on the eq, where you can fine tune between the 31 octaves. I'm still commig to grips on tweaking the eq in 0.2-3 db's on the bit ten. The ability to tweak between the bands, would be yet another layer. That and the variable phase control on the sub.
> 
> Are you going to use an RTA to dial it in or an RTA + teak by ear? Congrats.


I was in the same boat. At some point, how much is too much? With this unit I see a good balance struck. With other processors coming out, I wonder if it's too much. That includes the c-dsp. At the end of the day, though, anything that allows you to have a better system is a good purchase. You all but have to use an RTA. I feel you don't take full advantage of this (or others due out) if you don't. Not only because of the fact we hear in 1/3 octave, but namely because with an adjustable Q, you can do more harm than good. There are many cases where a wide Q would be useful and others where a very narrow Q would help. 

It's been shown ILD is differentiated at levels of 0.5dB; on average, though, it's more in the range of 2.3dB. I don't know much about that particular test because I don't have AES privileges. 

The variable phase control is something pro pieces offer and I'm told it's just lovely. I can imagine... well, I could. Now I'll know.


----------



## ErinH

vactor said:


> is there a working link to the software and manual for the p-dsp? the front page links don't work anymore
> 
> p.s.
> and page 5 keeps sending me back to page 4. can't seem to view the last page of this thread.





bikinpunk said:


> Not sure about dealers, but check here for details and info (as well as a software download):
> Audiotec Fischer GmbH | German Car Hifi | Brax -- Helix -- G-Control : Download


Try the link above.


----------



## strakele

bikinpunk said:


> You all but have to use an RTA. I feel you don't take full advantage of this (or others due out) if you don't. Not only because of the fact we hear in 1/3 octave, but namely because with an adjustable Q, you can do more harm than good. There are many cases where a wide Q would be useful and others where a very narrow Q would help.



What exactly is the difference between a parametric EQ and a graphic EQ with adjustable Q?


----------



## ErinH

strakele said:


> What exactly is the difference between a parametric EQ and a graphic EQ with adjustable Q?


Nothing, really. In this case you can't go below the Q of a 1/3 octave EQ (4.3). That's the difference here. That and the 1/3 octave increments which aren't even fixed. 

Graphimetric seems to have caught on.


----------



## ISTundra

I've been playing with the software and noticed something quirky with the filter sections. If you have say an odd order butterworth slope (-18, -30) and you drag the filter type slider to linkwitz, the filter slope then drops back down to 0 or pass-thru. Seems like this could be potentially dangerous if using while connected to the unit. It does seem to work ok if the filter slope is at -6.


----------



## james2266

So, Bikinpunk, are you going to be doing a full on review of this one? I would be very ineterested. I am most interested in how it compares to the Audison Bit One.1. It looks like it doesn't have some of the annoyances of the Bit One (at least for me anyways). 
Can you:
1. adjust left and right and then link them back together to adjust without one side overwriting the other?
2. Have different slopes for hi and lo pass on a bandpass? for that matter, different slope types too?
3. Link 2 channels together and do time alignment on both at same time (ie. 2 subwoofer channels)?

It doesn't look like it has anyway to switch presets tho (ie no DRC like Bit One)? I think I could live with that anyway if it has all the other annoyances removed. 

And most importantly, how does it sound? Is there any turn on/off pops? Discernable noise/distortion? Does it have any annoying minor background noise (like the Bit One)? 
I am quite curious about this one actually but want to make sure it is the one for me when I get to the point of getting another processor.


----------



## ErinH

Anyone who owns this unit before the 2-21 update and has since updated it, I need you to answer something. No ********. No psychoacoustics:
Do you notice a peak in output around 12khz, with an overall gradual increase above 2khz up to this point? 

Actually, this question goes for everyone who owns this but more so for anyone who may have owned it before/after the 2-21 update release. Feel free to pm or answer here.


----------



## Mic10is

james2266 said:


> So, Bikinpunk, are you going to be doing a full on review of this one? I would be very ineterested. I am most interested in how it compares to the Audison Bit One.1. It looks like it doesn't have some of the annoyances of the Bit One (at least for me anyways).
> Can you:
> 1. adjust left and right and then link them back together to adjust without one side overwriting the other?
> 2. Have different slopes for hi and lo pass on a bandpass? for that matter, different slope types too?
> 3. Link 2 channels together and do time alignment on both at same time (ie. 2 subwoofer channels)?
> 
> It doesn't look like it has anyway to switch presets tho (ie no DRC like Bit One)? I think I could live with that anyway if it has all the other annoyances removed.
> 
> And most importantly, how does it sound? Is there any turn on/off pops? Discernable noise/distortion? Does it have any annoying minor background noise (like the Bit One)?
> I am quite curious about this one actually but want to make sure it is the one for me when I get to the point of getting another processor.


not sure on #1---linking has to be done before an adjustment is made-once linked then both channels use the new setting
Yes to number 2
Yes to number 3 as well

edit---Yes you can adjust left and right but once u link together to do stereo it then uses the channel you are working on, settings for the other one

so If you adjust left, then right, then go click on Left channel and link it to right channel--bc you are on the Left channel it takes the left channels adjustments and copies it to the right


----------



## ErinH

Apparently, if you take the time to test devices and you happen to find an issue and then present it to the mfg in a non-douchebag manner, they are willing to work with you and will help you out if you're nice. Case in point: I have a C-DSP straight from Brax/Helix directly when I started off with a P-DSP.

So, all you fellas who think measurements don't matter... keep telling yourself that. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks they do... 


That said, here's some pictures of the two units:


----------



## ErinH

*P-DSP Pictures:
*


----------



## ErinH

*C-DSP Pictures:*


----------



## Mic10is

bikinpunk said:


> Apparently, if you take the time to test devices and you happen to find an issue and then present it to the mfg in a non-douchebag manner, they are willing to work with you and will help you out if you're nice. Case in point: I have a C-DSP straight from Brax/Helix directly when I started off with a P-DSP.
> 
> So, all you fellas who think measurements don't matter... keep telling yourself that. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks they do...
> 
> 
> That said, here's some pictures of the two units:


you sir are a douchebag


----------



## ErinH

The c-dsp is a _*beast*_.


----------



## evo9

bikinpunk said:


> Apparently, if you take the time to test devices and you happen to find an issue and then present it to the mfg in a non-douchebag manner, they are willing to work with you and will help you out if you're nice. Case in point: I have a C-DSP straight from Brax/Helix directly when I started off with a P-DSP.
> 
> So, all you fellas who think measurements don't matter... keep telling yourself that. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks they do...
> 
> 
> That said, here's some pictures of the two units:




*Are you saying they sent you a C-DSP for uncovering a fault in the P-DSP? *


----------



## ErinH

In a nutshell.


----------



## evo9

bikinpunk said:


> In a nutshell.



Now that is a company with customer service in spades! I was going to jump on a C-DSP back in november last year. But decided to wait till you or someone here with your knowledge got one first. I await your review on this processor.





.


----------



## tintbox

Nice. Now that's customer service.


----------



## PiastXD

really nice processor! 
used the bitone before and the p-dsp for round about 6 month now! amazing!


----------



## james2266

PiastXD said:


> really nice processor!
> used the bitone before and the p-dsp for round about 6 month now! amazing!


And how does the p-dsp (or for that matter the c-dsp) compare to the Bit One on overall sound quality ability and useability (software)? Is there anything that annoys you about the Helix units. I, too, anxiously await a full review on either/both of these new Helix units. Also, what is (or going to be) the MSRP on either of these units in Canada/USA?


----------



## nepl29

Pricing is already posted on the thread.


----------



## Mic10is

james2266 said:


> And how does the p-dsp (or for that matter the c-dsp) compare to the Bit One on overall sound quality ability and useability (software)? Is there anything that annoys you about the Helix units. I, too, anxiously await a full review on either/both of these new Helix units. Also, what is (or going to be) the MSRP on either of these units in Canada/USA?


your questions have been answered in the thread
Ive had the P-DSP since October, the 1st in the USA


----------



## james2266

Mic10is said:


> your questions have been answered in the thread
> Ive had the P-DSP since October, the 1st in the USA


I don't recall I have read any full performance reviews for either of these units in this thread. There have been mentionings of its abilities and even manuals posted which really gained my interest. Nowhere have I seen anyone compare either of these units to the Bit One or any other units really when it comes to performance. I also think I read price quotes but they were not US MSRP if I recall. I will relook but I am pretty sure the numbers listed were European. The pics from Bikinpunk are greatly appreciated tho - looks like a very nice unit for sure. I just want to know if it sound even better or not.


----------



## PiastXD

so what you wanna know! 
the processor does everything what is written in the manual without any background noice.

you know your B1, compare it to the helix and the specs 

and here in this thread i think everything is said about the P-dsp


----------



## Mic10is

Mic10is said:


> *P-DSP MAP pricing is $799.
> C-DSP Map is $1099, expected to ship to USA after the 1st of the year*





james2266 said:


> I don't recall I have read any full performance reviews for either of these units in this thread. There have been mentionings of its abilities and even manuals posted which really gained my interest. Nowhere have I seen anyone compare either of these units to the Bit One or any other units really when it comes to performance. I also think I read price quotes but they were not US MSRP if I recall. I will relook but I am pretty sure the numbers listed were European. The pics from Bikinpunk are greatly appreciated tho - looks like a very nice unit for sure. I just want to know if it sound even better or not.



The Helix beats everything else currently on the market in terms of performance. 
Its more flexible, there are no preset XO points that you have to choose from. You have the option of different filters
EQ is 1/12 Octave EQ with graphic interface that can be controlled like a parametric for complete freq response control.
ALL Phase and Time adjustments can be done on a single page, unlike other units which require you to navigate thru multiple menus.
also, subwoofer is adjustable in phase 0-360degrees in 22.5degrees increments which makes it very easy to integrate rear mounted subs with your midbass drivers

the processor is transparent in sound, it doesnt add anything to the sound like other processors tend to do.
IT wasnt until I used the Helix that I realized how much the Alpine H700/01 colored the sound


The software is downloadable and you can play with it in demo mode to see just how easy it is to make adjustments and configure things.


----------



## ErinH

Mic10is said:


> The Helix beats everything else currently on the market in terms of performance.
> 
> 
> The software is downloadable and you can play with it in demo mode to see just how easy it is to make adjustments and configure things.


Agreed. And yes, I encourage folks to download the software and run it in demo mode. You can play with it as if you were using a pdsp or play with it like you were using a cdsp. I can write a review on it, but with the software readily available I see no reason to when you guys can see first hand the differences in the dsp options. 

But, here's a quick rundown of the notable differences:
spec'd higher SNR for the c-dsp.
the c-dsp has 1/24 octave resolution in EQ bands (and can be spread out through the entire 20-20khz range which is fuggin' CRAZY).
The c-dsp has a Q of 0-15. The p-dsp only goes down to 4.3 (standard 1/3 octave Q, IIRC).
8 inputs on the C. 6 input son the P.
Adjustable gains on the front of the c-dsp.


----------



## james2266

Mic10is said:


> The Helix beats everything else currently on the market in terms of performance.
> Its more flexible, there are no preset XO points that you have to choose from. You have the option of different filters
> EQ is 1/12 Octave EQ with graphic interface that can be controlled like a parametric for complete freq response control.
> ALL Phase and Time adjustments can be done on a single page, unlike other units which require you to navigate thru multiple menus.
> also, subwoofer is adjustable in phase 0-360degrees in 22.5degrees increments which makes it very easy to integrate rear mounted subs with your midbass drivers
> 
> the processor is transparent in sound, it doesnt add anything to the sound like other processors tend to do.
> IT wasnt until I used the Helix that I realized how much the Alpine H700/01 colored the sound
> 
> 
> The software is downloadable and you can play with it in demo mode to see just how easy it is to make adjustments and configure things.





bikinpunk said:


> Agreed. And yes, I encourage folks to download the software and run it in demo mode. You can play with it as if you were using a pdsp or play with it like you were using a cdsp. I can write a review on it, but with the software readily available I see no reason to when you guys can see first hand the differences in the dsp options.
> 
> But, here's a quick rundown of the notable differences:
> spec'd higher SNR for the c-dsp.
> the c-dsp has 1/24 octave resolution in EQ bands (and can be spread out through the entire 20-20khz range which is fuggin' CRAZY).
> The c-dsp has a Q of 0-15. The p-dsp only goes down to 4.3 (standard 1/3 octave Q, IIRC).
> 8 inputs on the C. 6 input son the P.
> Adjustable gains on the front of the c-dsp.


Thanks Mic and Bikinpunk , I think, damn! now i think I have to have one of these things. Is it true that the c-dsp has a 6 volt output!? With no induced noise at all, that would be absolutely amazing sound! The suggested pricing is actually quite nice even if out of my budget at this exact time. Time to save some pennies I guess. Have to sell a Bit One first I guess too. Maybe I'll see if anyone wants to trade? I doubt it from what you guys say however.


----------



## evo9

bikinpunk said:


> Agreed. And yes, I encourage folks to download the software and run it in demo mode. You can play with it as if you were using a pdsp or play with it like you were using a cdsp. I can write a review on it, but with the software readily available I see no reason to when you guys can see first hand the differences in the dsp options.
> 
> But, here's a quick rundown of the notable differences:
> spec'd higher SNR for the c-dsp.
> the c-dsp has 1/24 octave resolution in EQ bands (and can be spread out through the entire 20-20khz range which is fuggin' CRAZY).
> The c-dsp has a Q of 0-15. The p-dsp only goes down to 4.3 (standard 1/3 octave Q, IIRC).
> 8 inputs on the C. 6 input son the P.
> Adjustable gains on the front of the c-dsp.



Come on man, your review is needed! We all know of the bitone quirkiness & is looking forward to a review from a better product. I have already played with the software months ago. It is an awesome software to work with. If the unit is as sorted as the software, then great. But a review from you who have tested alot means alot. I may have not said in the H800 thread. But, a BIG thanks to you! If not for your review & findings I would have wasted money on that pile. So yeah.............. Please provide your review it is appreciated.









.


----------



## Mic10is

evo9 said:


> Come on man, your review is needed! We all know of the bitone quirkiness & is looking forward to a review from a better product. I have already played with the software months ago. It is an awesome software to work with. If the unit is as sorted as the software, then great. But a review from you who have tested alot means alot. I may have not said in the H800 thread. But, a BIG thanks to you! If not for your review & findings I would have wasted money on that pile. So yeah.............. Please provide your review it is appreciated.
> .


Im not exactly what you want to see in a review that hasnt been covered already?
what specifically do you want to know; since Ive used this processor for months now, perhaps I can answer them for you bc I know Erin really doesnt want to do a review right now


----------



## evo9

Mic10is said:


> Im not exactly what you want to see in a review that hasnt been covered already?
> what specifically do you want to know; since Ive used this processor for months now, perhaps I can answer them for you bc I know Erin really doesnt want to do a review right now



Those clicks, pops, buzz & other random weired sounds the bitone would do. These are things I want to know of NOT being an issue with this brand. 




.


----------



## ErinH

there are a lot of folks here with the p-dsp that haven't said anything about any issues. 

I don't know if I'll do a full up review on the C-dsp or the p-dsp. I'm stressed out with all the other stuff I've got going on. So much so, that I even told Mic I might not even intsall the c-dsp at all. Klippel test (5 drivers waiting to be tested and shipped back home), an open house next month, 2 weeks of travel in under a month... no time.

I can say that while I've had these hooked up to my bench, playing music through some of my test drivers, I've not had any issues. I power the DSP's off a stand alone battery.


If I happen to actually install this thing, I'll come back with some thoughts. Otherwise, I'm going to assume all is well with it (it tests fine) and refer everyone to the software or Mic... or the other guys here who have it.

Not trying to be rude. Just saying not to expect much from me in the way of a review.


- Erin


----------



## Mic10is

evo9 said:


> Those clicks, pops, buzz & other random weired sounds the bitone would do. These are things I want to know of NOT being an issue with this brand.
> .


No random noises. I have a slight turn on noise, that I havent had time to troubleshoot. Ive asked others who use it and they have ZERO noise issues.
Its as clean a processor as I have ever used or more so.
Ive used, Pioneer ODR, Sony XES, Alpine H700/01 etc...and in terms of overall flexibility and tuning ability -this beats them hands down.

Like I have previously said, my only real "complaint" is lugging the laptop out to the car to tune. But once I Do, tuning overall is simpler bc everything is right in front of you. No need to jump through various menus, click different buttons and settings etc...


----------



## evo9

bikinpunk said:


> there are a lot of folks here with the p-dsp that haven't said anything about any issues.
> 
> I don't know if I'll do a full up review on the C-dsp or the p-dsp. I'm stressed out with all the other stuff I've got going on. * So much so, that I even told Mic I might not even intsall the c-dsp at all. Klippel test (5 drivers waiting to be tested and shipped back home), an open house next month, 2 weeks of travel in under a month... no time.*
> 
> I can say that while I've had these hooked up to my bench, playing music through some of my test drivers, I've not had any issues. I power the DSP's off a stand alone battery.
> 
> 
> If I happen to actually install this thing, I'll come back with some thoughts. Otherwise, I'm going to assume all is well with it (it tests fine) and refer everyone to the software or Mic... or the other guys here who have it.
> 
> Not trying to be rude. Just saying not to expect much from me in the way of a review.
> 
> 
> - Erin



No offense taken! I did not realized you had so much going on. Mics has been very helpfull to me via PM & now in this thread. You know, I could take that C-DSP off you for a fair price 



.


----------



## evo9

Mic10is said:


> No random noises. I have a slight turn on noise, that I havent had time to troubleshoot. Ive asked others who use it and they have ZERO noise issues.
> Its as clean a processor as I have ever used or more so.
> Ive used, Pioneer ODR, Sony XES, Alpine H700/01 etc...and in terms of overall flexibility and tuning ability -this beats them hands down.
> 
> Like I have previously said, my only real "complaint" is lugging the laptop out to the car to tune. But once I Do, tuning overall is simpler bc everything is right in front of you. No need to jump through various menus, click different buttons and settings etc...



Thanks Mic! The single biggest issue I have with my bitone is during pc connection. Sometimes when hooked to the pc that thing will send odd sounds/signals to the speakers. This would happen during synchronization or finalization. I find that the bitone is particular to resources by connection.



.


----------



## Mic10is

evo9 said:


> Thanks Mic! The single biggest issue I have with my bitone is during pc connection. Sometimes when hooked to the pc that thing will send odd sounds/signals to the speakers. This would happen during synchronization or finalization. I find that the bitone is particular to resources by connection.
> 
> 
> 
> .


There is zero noise during Pc hook up or disconnect. only issue I have is sometimes I have to reinstall the USB driver to get the program to work, but that could just be our laptop

Only possible noise, and the manual mentions this as have others, is if you leave amps and speakers connected when uploading firmware updates---youll get some very nasty pops...


----------



## evo9

Mic10is said:


> There is zero noise during Pc hook up or disconnect. only issue I have is sometimes I have to reinstall the USB driver to get the program to work, but that could just be our laptop
> 
> Only possible noise, and the manual mentions this as have others, is if you leave amps and speakers connected when uploading firmware updates---youll get some very nasty pops...




Yep, I remember! You did caution me on that. I would not consider that a negative since the manual warns of this.




.


----------



## james2266

Thanks to mic and Bikinpunk from me as well. You guys have been very helpful here too. I feel almost like I just got a review actually. I do know all about being too busy. I feel like the Hollidays were anything but for me actually. I am glad it is over now and that I can get back to a more peaceful time. I really do hope things slow down enough for me to actually get into some fabrication work in the months ahead here. I also hope things slow down for you to Bikinpunk. It sucks being too busy to do the things your enjoy doing. I will play with the software more as I just actually got a peak at it earlier today. At first glance it looks very easy to work with and powerful just as you guys stated. Thanks for your time as limited as it is.


----------



## bbfoto

Hmmm...could be interesting if integrated into an install with one of the new Windows 7/8 tablets that will be coming out soon. Would also be nice if they can come up with an Android interface as well, seeing that an iOS app/interface seems out of the question for the moment. 

Will keep my eyes on these units for sure. Erin, good luck with the house sale and everthing else you have on your plate! I've always been amazed at how much you actually do take on (to the benefit of the DIYMA community) and want to let you know that I REALLY appreciate all of your efforts, and I'm sure many others do as well! I for one am very thankful that your will power to resist the bite of the audio bug is quite lacking at times!  Have learned HEAPS from your insight and reviews.

And THANK YOU to EVERYBODY here for all your thoughts and information in this thread!


----------



## strakele

Has anyone heard anything about the smartphone tuning app? Maybe not a release date, but is it still essentially guaranteed that it will happen at some point?


----------



## eviling

i heard they dropped the iphone app


----------



## james2266

eviling said:


> i heard they dropped the iphone app


This kind of sux. I hope they have a reconsideration but it is nice to see a company that isn't jumping head or heals to service apple unlike so many others. 

mic, I am going to send you a PM in a bit here.


----------



## strakele

I have an Android phone.. couldn't care less what they do for the iphone. Anyone know if that's still in the works?


----------



## eviling

strakele said:


> I have an Android phone.. couldn't care less what they do for the iphone. Anyone know if that's still in the works?


both are still being followed, please don't let this info push you astray from this processor. ive been doing my research and bang for buck, and acually over all the best processor on the market PERIOD. the 801 only beating it slightly, and thats only because it offers some features that in the end might not even matter like the auto tune, in the right hands the P unit can do just as good\better in even better hands. 

i believe the apps are both past production. the problem was tweaking, they delayed them a year after release to give them plenty of tweak time. the full story was licensing issues became a headach and they at least of a month ago they were focusing primerly on the android end. i mean as far as i understood the info i was given, their are always details that are missed. the apple app will likely come out IMO but probobly after the android one. android is an easy thing to do, probobly didn't take much tweaking since everything is unix based. even the iphone is, but they were having licensing issues.


----------



## ErinH

Ryan let me borrow his Stingray USB o-scope so I did a few measurements on the C-DSP.

I found the clipping point to be about 5.60v (approximately). This didn't change whether I had the input signal at 2v, or 7v and adjust the gain appropriately, or if I changed the output level on the software or the hardware (c-dsp has gain control for shared channels). IOW, no matter how you adjust gains (physically, software, or add a new higher voltage headunit), the pre-out voltage unclipped for the c-dsp is approximately 5.60v as measured by the stingray. 
Furthermore, I also found that the software gives a clipping indicator in the level meter bar. When it's blue, you're not sending a clipped signal. When red appears above the blue, you are. Picture shows this below. What does this mean? Simply that you don't neede an oscope to adjust your gains with this piece. The software has a clipping indicator built in (the bitone does as well and I believe the h800 does, too).

You can see the frequency and RMS voltage just before clipping in the pictures below as well as a picture illustrating the clipping indicator of the GUI.





























Testing on the P-DSP shows non-clipped output up to about 3.4vRMS


----------



## eviling

bikinpunk said:


> Ryan let me borrow his Stingray USB o-scope so I did a few measurements on the C-DSP.
> 
> I found the clipping point to be about 5.60v (approximately). This didn't change whether I had the input signal at 2v, or 7v and adjust the gain appropriately, or if I changed the output level on the software or the hardware (c-dsp has gain control for shared channels). IOW, no matter how you adjust gains (physically, software, or add a new higher voltage headunit), the pre-out voltage unclipped for the c-dsp is approximately 5.60v as measured by the stingray.
> Furthermore, I also found that the software gives a clipping indicator in the level meter bar. When it's blue, you're not sending a clipped signal. When red appears above the blue, you are. Picture shows this below. What does this mean? Simply that you don't neede an oscope to adjust your gains with this piece. The software has a clipping indicator built in (the bitone does as well and I believe the h800 does, too).
> 
> You can see the frequency and RMS voltage just before clipping in the pictures below as well as a picture illustrating the clipping indicator of the GUI.


you got ahold of a C?


----------



## ErinH

Check a few posts back.


----------



## james2266

Thanks for the cool info bikinpunk. So, how does it sound compared to the Bit One.1?


----------



## subwoofery

james2266 said:


> Thanks for the cool info bikinpunk. So, how does it sound compared to the Bit One.1?


Even if the sound difference was 0, the P-DSP and the C-DSP are more powerful tools to achieve what you want out of your stereo. Therefore, sell your BitOne and buy a P-DSP  
Got cash, then by all means get a C-DSP 

Kelvin 

PS: Don't think Erin can answer your question coz he has sold his BitOne a long long time ago...


----------



## bbfoto

Great info, Erin. Thanks!

Was this the case for ALL of the pre-out channels on the C-DSP? IOW, did the Tweeter L/R, Mid L/R, Woofer L/R, and Subwoofer 1/2 ALL put out 5.6v before clipping?

Also, sorry if I missed it, but I see in the C-DSP software that only the Subwoofer Outputs are listed as "1" & "2" instead of "L" & "R", so are the "1" & "2" EACH a Mono output (summed subwoofer L/R channels), or are the "1" & "2" outputs in fact subwoofer Stereo L & R outputs?

Thanks again!


----------



## Mic10is

bbfoto said:


> Great info, Erin. Thanks!
> 
> Was this the case for ALL of the pre-out channels on the C-DSP? IOW, did the Tweeter L/R, Mid L/R, Woofer L/R, and Subwoofer 1/2 ALL put out 5.6v before clipping?
> 
> Also, sorry if I missed it, but I see in the C-DSP software that only the Subwoofer Outputs are listed as "1" & "2" instead of "L" & "R", so are the "1" & "2" EACH a Mono output (summed subwoofer L/R channels), or are the "1" & "2" outputs in fact subwoofer Stereo L & R outputs?
> 
> Thanks again!


subwoofer outputs are mono each but can be linked
If you want the full 360 degree phase control, you can only use these outputs for subwoofer

technically, any output can be used for anything, but if you want the benefit of the phase control for subwoofer /midbass matching then those are the only outputs to use


----------



## ErinH

all outputs measured approximately the same.


----------



## bbfoto

Awesome. Thanks guys!


----------



## bbfoto

Oh, Erin, and others that prefer to use iDevices as their main source...

About a week before Christmas I got a call to work on an Apple advertising photo shoot. Unfortunately, I was already booked on another shoot  but I put one of my crew members on it.  ...

iPad 3 ladies and gents! This was the main advertising shoot for the iPad 3 (final product), so it's just a month or two away from being in our hands. Can't say anything more as we're under an NDA.

All I will say is that it will be a very compelling option, especially when combined with something like the i-20 Pure digital dock.


----------



## bassfromspace

Can anyone tell me if this device offers signal summing w/some form of signal restoration?

I want to use my factory deck and the undoctored signal is altered.


----------



## ISTundra

^^^ bumpin for a clear answer to this. 

I looked through the manual and played with the software and don't see any signal restoration or de-EQing functionality in the unit or software. If I have to put a Cleansweep in front of this then I might as well stay with the Bit One.


----------



## t3sn4f2

ISTundra said:


> ^^^ bumpin for a clear answer to this.
> 
> I looked through the manual and played with the software and don't see any signal restoration or de-EQing functionality in the unit or software. If I have to put a Cleansweep in front of this then I might as well stay with the Bit One.


Doesn't look like it to me. 

Anti-EQ is nothing more than a pre autoDSP. If you can handle a fully manual DSP, then you should be able to integrate the inputs characteristics (ie flaws) into your final manual tuning.


----------



## ISTundra

I dunno... My factory system (Lexus IS) does dynamic EQ'ing in the OEM amp, and unless I tune it for one volume only then that is certainly a drawback of the Helix units. At least I have DRC volume control with the Bit One. 

And there is no pre-out before the OEM amp (or non-DSP'ed output after it) that I can use for signal. Bypassing the OEM amp altogether causes loss of other HU functions that are performed in the amp, so that's not an option either.


----------



## bbfoto

^ You can use the speaker-level outputs from your factory amp into the high-level inputs on the C/P-DSP. Just remember that for this to work with a factory HU (or HU/Amp combo) that utilizes Dynamic EQ/Processing, you would have to keep your head unit volume at a fixed setting just as you stated, and then ONLY use a potentiometer connected to the C/P-DSP for volume/level control, which would function just as the "volume" knob does on your DRC.

Since all of your different sources will be routed through the DSP, all of the source's volume will be controlled by this single potentiometer, and you could delete the HU's volume control entirely.

You can also add a second potentiometer to the C/P-DSP to provide a bass boost level control for highway driving, quick song-to-song bass level, etc. These potentiometers are pretty small and could be conveniently mounted just about anywhere.


----------



## bassfromspace

bbfoto said:


> ^ You can use the speaker-level outputs from your factory amp into the high-level inputs on the C/P-DSP. Just remember that for this to work with a factory HU (or HU/Amp combo) that utilizes Dynamic EQ/Processing, you would have to keep your head unit volume at a fixed setting just as you stated, and then ONLY use a potentiometer connected to the C/P-DSP for volume/level control, which would function just as the "volume" knob does on your DRC.
> 
> Since all of your different sources will be routed through the DSP, all of the source's volume will be controlled by this single potentiometer, and you could delete the HU's volume control entirely.
> 
> You can also add a second potentiometer to the C/P-DSP to provide a bass boost level control for highway driving, quick song-to-song bass level, etc. These potentiometers are pretty small and could be conveniently mounted just about anywhere.


Thanks for the info!

I appreciate the info, but it feels like a band-aid and that's difficult to swallow being that they cost so much money.


----------



## ISTundra

bbfoto said:


> ^ You can use the speaker-level outputs from your factory amp into the high-level inputs on the C/P-DSP. Just remember that for this to work with a factory HU (or HU/Amp combo) that utilizes Dynamic EQ/Processing, you would have to keep your head unit volume at a fixed setting just as you stated, and then ONLY use a potentiometer connected to the C/P-DSP for volume/level control, which would function just as the "volume" knob does on your DRC.
> 
> Since all of your different sources will be routed through the DSP, all of the source's volume will be controlled by this single potentiometer, and you could delete the HU's volume control entirely.
> 
> You can also add a second potentiometer to the C/P-DSP to provide a bass boost level control for highway driving, quick song-to-song bass level, etc. These potentiometers are pretty small and could be conveniently mounted just about anywhere.


Where would I use a single pot for volume control? From the OEM amp, I need to use multiple outputs to get a summed signal, and then I'd have multiple outputs from the P-DSP so wouldn't each channel then need a pot. 

Going off what you're describing, you could put an LC6/cheap clone in front of the P-DSP and use that to sum the signal and also use its remote knob as a master volume control. Again it's a another piece in the signal path tho.


----------



## audioanamoly

ISTundra said:


> Where would I use a single pot for volume control? From the OEM amp, I need to use multiple outputs to get a summed signal, and then I'd have multiple outputs from the P-DSP so wouldn't each channel then need a pot.
> 
> Going off what you're describing, you could put an LC6/cheap clone in front of the P-DSP and use that to sum the signal and also use its remote knob as a master volume control. Again it's a another piece in the signal path tho.


I shot brax/helix an e-mail regarding most of what you guys are talking about. They are releasing a controller that will take care of volume control and source selection "very shortly". That's what the red "control" plug on the side of the P/C-dsp is for.


----------



## bbfoto

^ Great news! Until then, Helix will provide you with the pin-outs of that connector and ohm range to add your own pot, which from my understanding (could be wrong of course) controls the levels of all of the outputs simultaneously.

ISTundra, sorry I missunderstood and jumped the gun. You are correct, the problem is achieving a summed (full-range) signal from the filtered, multiple outputs of your factory amp.  Similar problem with most of the Subaru WRX STi's I've worked on. Soooo frustrating! :/


----------



## bbfoto

Guys, I've been bit... I'm gonna have to try this unit out. Please Email me if you have a hookup for the C-DSP!

bbfoto AT Hotmail DOT com

THANKS!


----------



## audioanamoly

bbfoto said:


> Guys, I've been bit... I'm gonna have to try this unit out. Please Email me if you have a hookup for the C-DSP!
> 
> bbfoto AT Hotmail DOT com
> 
> THANKS!


I've got a P-dsp for sale, plus the schematics for the pots/pins and I'm local to you! PM me if interested.


----------



## carson

Since today im using the P-dsp whit the 10K volume control and it realy works great, when i whas using the headunit volume i had some kind of alternator noise on low volume but because the headunit is now at full volume i dont have that problem anymore.

The next thing i'm going to do is buying something like the pulse i-20 or the onkyo ND-S1 for toslink digital ipod. I hope there is a way to change between to setups whitout access to the dsp itself so i can have one setup for analog headunit and one for the digital ipod.


----------



## rugdnit

bikinpunk said:


> *Apparently, if you take the time to test devices and you happen to find an issue and then present it to the mfg in a non-douchebag manner*, they are willing to work with you and will help you out if you're nice. Case in point: I have a C-DSP straight from Brax/Helix directly when I started off with a P-DSP.


SHUT THE FRONT DOOR! I believe standard operation procedure here is to bash them openly and publicly shame them until the mfg caves in to your every demand and whim.


Thanx for posting this Erin. Looking forward to getting my hands on one of these and then hopefully getting some TIME to use it. It's running in pretty short supply any more.


----------



## [email protected]

Should receive my P-DSP by the end of the week 

[email protected]


----------



## rugdnit

[email protected] said:


> Should receive my P-DSP by the end of the week
> 
> [email protected]


GOOD FOR YOU!


----------



## Rupinder

does p-dsp have an autotune with mic or the tuning is done with rta and hearing only


----------



## subwoofery

Rupinder said:


> does p-dsp have an autotune with mic or the tuning is done with rta and hearing only


Autotune, NO... Upload settings regarding OEM locations, YES (DSP setup)

Kelvin


----------



## Rupinder

is there a controller to control the sub level on p-dsp like that on the rf 360.2
does this unit useful for oem integration .will it de=equalise the oem hu and sum the inputs


----------



## Mic10is

Rupinder said:


> is there a controller to control the sub level on p-dsp like that on the rf 360.2
> does this unit useful for oem integration .will it de=equalise the oem hu and sum the inputs


no and no


----------



## eviling

Rupinder said:


> is there a controller to control the sub level on p-dsp like that on the rf 360.2
> does this unit useful for oem integration .will it de=equalise the oem hu and sum the inputs


I think i remember reading about an afrer market unit that will be sold. the phone app will be able to provide control over the same stuff, tonalitys, levels, sub levels, their is also a harness you can attach 2 pots to for volume and sub level, ideal for a carputer  wink wink


----------



## carson

Rupinder said:


> is there a controller to control the sub level on p-dsp like that on the rf 360.2
> does this unit useful for oem integration .will it de=equalise the oem hu and sum the inputs


Sub level controll is possible i'm using it right now, it works the same as the volume control so you just need an 10k potmeter for the sub control and one for the volume control.

It can up to 4 inputs togheter to make one output signal, eq has to be done completeli by hand but je can de-equalise by hand.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Rupinder said:


> is there a controller to control the sub level on p-dsp like that on the rf 360.2
> does this unit useful for oem integration .will it de=equalise the oem hu and sum the inputs


No controller, yet. ETA is hopefully looking like approx 8 weeks out. However YES you can control sub and master volume without it. 2 pots and some wire is all that is needed.


----------



## audioanamoly

Got my C-dsp a week ago, but I'm in the process of moving so its going to be a little bit before its up and running. Not to mention I need to buy a mic and have it calibrated. Hint hint Erin This thing is so beautifully built!! Hats off to Helix.


----------



## eviling

audioanamoly said:


> Got my C-dsp a week ago, but I'm in the process of moving so its going to be a little bit before its up and running. Not to mention I need to buy a mic and have it calibrated. Hint hint Erin This thing is so beautifully built!! Hats off to Helix.


lol now what do you do with that h800 and dsp p :laugh: my friend your just as bad as me about this stuff haha and now im back to thinking about a c because i dont like the sound card anymore lol


----------



## audioanamoly

eviling said:


> lol now what do you do with that h800 and dsp p :laugh: my friend your just as bad as me about this stuff haha and now im back to thinking about a c because i dont like the sound card anymore lol


Haha, I think it's time to start a CAA group (Car Audio Anonymous) on this forum for all of us that suffer from this disease. Once I start, I can't stop! 
I sold the PXA and the P-dsp. Hopefully I will get the "C" in before something else comes out and "I just HAVE to try it" starts all over again. I am powerless over this addiction and I really need help.


----------



## ErinH

Greg,
I've been gone alllllllll week. I don't calibrate anymore. No time.
I recommend picking up the dayton mic:
Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone Allows For Accurate Acoustic Measurements At A Fraction Of The Price 390-801


----------



## MarkB

Has anyone scoped the output of the Helix DSP's? I'm wondering if they have as much HF noise as the MiniDSP 2x8 does......


----------



## audioanamoly

bikinpunk said:


> Greg,
> I've been gone alllllllll week. I don't calibrate anymore. No time.
> I recommend picking up the dayton mic:
> Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone Allows For Accurate Acoustic Measurements At A Fraction Of The Price 390-801


Thanks Erin, I will swoop one up this week.


----------



## james2266

bikinpunk said:


> Greg,
> I've been gone alllllllll week. I don't calibrate anymore. No time.
> I recommend picking up the dayton mic:
> Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone Allows For Accurate Acoustic Measurements At A Fraction Of The Price 390-801


Do you find this mic gives better results than a calibrated Beringer ECM8000? Or just a better cheaper option than getting one calibrated?


----------



## ErinH

That mic is calibrated ...


----------



## azngotskills

james2266 said:


> Do you find this mic gives better results than a calibrated Beringer ECM8000? Or just a better cheaper option than getting one calibrated?


I got one for sale if interested, I will included multiple XLR, XLR to RCA, and XLR to mic cables as well.  PM me if you are interested


----------



## james2266

PM sent for azngotskills


----------



## mathematics

6spdcoupe said:


> No controller, yet. ETA is hopefully looking like approx 8 weeks out. However YES you can control sub and master volume without it. 2 pots and some wire is all that is needed.


I reckon you need to change your signature oke:


----------



## 6spdcoupe

mathematics said:


> I reckon you need to change your signature oke:


Eh, eventually.


----------



## quality_sound

Am I the only one that can't figure out how to choose individual crossover frequencies? I keep readin that they aren't preset numbers but I can't figure out a way to get it to accept anything other than the numbers it has loaded into it. 

Other than that it IS a great piece and I love that the software is so easy to use. Having a separate pop-up screen to do ALL of the T/A at once it really nice. 

On the plus side, I know if I can't make my H800 fit that the P-DSP will be MORE than enough processor for me even if I do hate that like the Zapco and B1.1 you can't make any on-the-fly adjustments.


----------



## Mic10is

quality_sound said:


> Am I the only one that can't figure out how to choose individual crossover frequencies? I keep readin that they aren't preset numbers but I can't figure out a way to get it to accept anything other than the numbers it has loaded into it.
> 
> Other than that it IS a great piece and I love that the software is so easy to use. Having a separate pop-up screen to do ALL of the T/A at once it really nice.
> 
> On the plus side, I know if I can't make my H800 fit that the P-DSP will be MORE than enough processor for me even if I do hate that like the Zapco and B1.1 you can't make any on-the-fly adjustments.


ok, it isnt completely inputable at crossover frequencey where you can infinitely choose whatever XO point, buts its pretty close.
I mean Im using 69 and 169hz as XO points...lol
outside of the ARC piece, I dont know many that truely give you complete XO point control with that many different filter options


----------



## quality_sound

Ahhh. That makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Rupinder

digging up this thread so that who have installed this p-dsp can give a long term report and any errors in hardware or the software .


----------



## Mic10is

Rupinder said:


> digging up this thread so that who have installed this p-dsp can give a long term report and any errors in hardware or the software .


NO problems here.

I had some issues trying to update my P-DSP from 12-12 firmware to 12-24...the AF loader wouldnt work correctly. but when I loaded the Pc Tools, it asked if I wanted to update and then 5minutes later it completed the update.


----------



## audioanamoly

Rupinder said:


> digging up this thread so that who have installed this p-dsp can give a long term report and any errors in hardware or the software .


My C isn't installed yet but will be soon. I'll post a subjective review as soon as I can.


----------



## Se7en

6spdcoupe said:


> Eh, eventually.


Don't be stingy...


----------



## Sonus

Does anyone know if the P-dsp will accept a differential ("balanced") signal from my BMW HiFi headunit?


----------



## quality_sound

Anyone know of a way to make the EQ section at the bottom of the setup screen show ALL the EQ at once so you don't have to constantly select output channels and link them?


----------



## mathematics

just my $.02

i love my P-DSP. very small form factor, very attractive price for what you get, super easy to use. thanks to Don for the sale. it's never good living 5 minutes from him. i always end up buying new stuff when i am hanging out =)


----------



## Berniemac

Anyone know of distributors in Canada for the Helix DSP?


----------



## james2266

Berniemac said:


> Anyone know of distributors in Canada for the Helix DSP?


I, also, would like to know this answer but preferably on the West side Who is partnered up with Helix in Canada? We know Rockford is in the US but how about Canada? I am still trying to narrow down what will replace my Bit One.1 at the moment anyways but would like to know what my options are for purchase. I would probably go the US route anyways. I have had an offer that might just be too good to pass up on the p-dsp already. Worried if anything goes wrong tho when it comes to servicing.


----------



## Wheres The Butta

just installed mine yesterday. will post again in a few days with updates


----------



## sydmonster

bump,if anyone has any more imput.


----------



## Ale555

For distributor questions: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | German Car Hifi | Brax -- Helix -- G-Control : Search for dealers


----------



## req

any news on the volume pot? i just got my pdsp in the mail and i have it hooked to my PC power supply to apply my settings and fart around - but i have an optical input and i need a volume knob before i can install this thing.

even if i have to hack it myself, give me some direction


----------



## Mic10is

req said:


> any news on the volume pot? i just got my pdsp in the mail and i have it hooked to my PC power supply to apply my settings and fart around - but i have an optical input and i need a volume knob before i can install this thing.
> 
> even if i have to hack it myself, give me some direction


Steve at Syracuse customs has all the info and parts
No advantage to me to use Optical.

but you seem to be obsessed with making the judging experience a royal PITA with multiple controls for different functions


----------



## req

mic, there will be one volume knob, and there will be one big button for previous, next, and play. i swear it will be very easy, it will feel like a regular double din headunit.

//edit

just sent him a message. ill see what i can come up with - hopefully i can find a connector for this, i dont feel like cracking it open so i can solder to the board...


----------



## 6spdcoupe

There is no need for opening them to pin out the plug. I also have the male end of the plugs here, but they are easily made as well.


----------



## carson

if anyone need the volume/sub volume control schematic, pm me youre email adres and i can send it to you.


----------



## Z-Roc

can this work with Alpine cda7990 thanks


----------



## Mic10is

Z-Roc said:


> can this work with Alpine cda7990 thanks


works with any head unit


----------



## lsm

I'm tired of waiting of the 3sixty.3 so I'm planning to buy one of these next week. Does anyone have the dimentions for the C-DSP? Thy have the P-DSP listed on their website but nothing for the C... Thanks!


----------



## Mic10is

lsm said:


> I'm tired of waiting of the 3sixty.3 so I'm planning to buy one of these next week. Does anyone have the dimentions for the C-DSP? Thy have the P-DSP listed on their website but nothing for the C... Thanks!


Audiotec Fischer GmbH | German Car Hifi | Brax -- Helix -- G-Control : Processor
190 x 190 x 42 mm


----------



## lsm

Mic10is said:


> Audiotec Fischer GmbH | German Car Hifi | Brax -- Helix -- G-Control : Processor
> 190 x 190 x 42 mm


THANKS!!


----------



## Z-Roc

Going to look and see which its best for me


----------



## matdotcom2000

Normally I dont say anything on the forum just browse and mind my own business.. (I have been lurking around here for years just look at my tag, been here since 2005 with only 728 post)
BUT I see at least 3 people with c-dsp and I need a REVIEW!!!! 
Digital in or analog in?
Is it transparent?
Does it sound better than the p-dsp? ERIN? (you gave a review of the mosconi) I just need a mini review of the c-dsp.. SOMETHING and nothing I can already find.. I kno its functional, I can test out the software and I know the specs But wat does it translate to in SOUND?

I can deal with the processing of the p-dsp but does the c-dsp sound better?? 

IS IT WORTH THE WAIT for the c-dsp???????? Because I will wait.. But its driving me crazy over here...

I had to say something......... Ok going back to stealth mode...


----------



## ErinH

I didn't speak on the sound of the mosconi at all. Everything I said about the mosconi, I've said about the cdsp in this thread (clipping point, key features). 

Sound is nebulous. All these units are capable of great sound. It's the tuning features and the output capability that matter that matter. So download the software and play with it. See what features there are and make your decision on that. 


Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


----------



## matdotcom2000

bikinpunk said:


> I didn't speak on the sound of the mosconi at all. Everything I said about the mosconi, I've said about the cdsp in this thread (clipping point, key features).
> 
> Sound is nebulous. All these units are capable of great sound. It's the tuning features and the output capability that matter that matter. So download the software and play with it. See what features there are and make your decision on that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


Agreed... somewhat.. but I got an answer to that.. So as far as units with the c-dsp or the p-dsp, is the c-dsp worth the wait? Who has the more quality analog inputs, is one more quiet than the other.

BTW thanks for the response Erin (like I know you  ) but either way I do appreciate the response


----------



## ErinH

the cdsp has two dsp chips and has a LOT higher tuning capability. Again, play with the software. It's very apparent. I'd wait for the cdsp. I had both. 
The reason I got rid of them was because the attenuation of levels for EQ and output gain was only in 0.5dB increments. I didn't like that.


----------



## matdotcom2000

Thanks for the input


----------



## subwoofery

Sorry if it's a repost: 
PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Helix P-DSP Signal Delay and Phase Control Panel Processor Review 

Kelvin


----------



## lsm

Ordered my P-DSP today hopefully I'll have it by Friday. Thanks to the OP for the great thread!


----------



## 6spdcoupe

So that local dealer ended up working out for you Scott ?


----------



## lsm

6spdcoupe said:


> So that local dealer ended up working out for you Scott ?


Sorta...The local dealer I trust and have been going to for years was able to get one from his Rep. He isn't a premier dealer but he was able to make it happen. Thanks for the follow up!


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Oh, perfect. Glad it worked out for ya !


----------



## 83corolla

Bump. Ism please pm me where you got the helix from, I am in Chicagoland as well.


----------



## vactor

83corolla said:


> Bump. Ism please pm me where you got the helix from, I am in Chicagoland as well.


me three. lol


----------



## matdotcom2000

Is this thread dead or what???


----------



## acidbass303

Hi, does anybody know where to buy C-Dsp in the US? Any links etc will be very helpful.
Thanks.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

The *C*-DSP project was cancelled about a month back. Refocusing efforts elsewhere.


----------



## chefhow

6spdcoupe said:


> The *C*-DSP project was cancelled about a month back. Refocusing efforts elsewhere.


Is the P-DSP going to continue or are they going to cancel it as well?


----------



## quality_sound

I thought the P-DSP was already shipping. I know some people here have them.


----------



## chefhow

quality_sound said:


> I thought the P-DSP was already shipping. I know some people here have them.


It is, but are they going to stop production and drop it is what I am asking.
Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

chefhow said:


> Is the P-DSP going to continue or are they going to cancel it as well?


The P is good and continuing on strongly.


----------



## thehatedguy

Dumb question, since this thing will take a toslink input, how do you control volume going digital in to the processor?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Digital is set from the source as usual then you just use a pot for level. Two pots if you want sub control as well..


----------



## thehatedguy

Neat. And will the unit automatically switch to analog inputs if listening t the radio or aux in?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

IF using both dig and analog inputs, I imagine it would. Never did both though just one or the other.


----------



## thehatedguy

Send me one and I will try it out for you


----------



## Ale555

The C-DSP is not cancelled, it got delayed.
I had my first working one to set up just 2 weeks ago.

But by now you still cannot buy it...


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Ale555 said:


> The C-DSP is not cancelled, it got delayed.
> I had my first working one to set up just 2 weeks ago.
> 
> But by now you still cannot buy it...


No offense intended here, but I will take the word from the manufacturer whom I work with over any other. 

The C-DSP has been cancelled. It will still be a product at some point but by then it will be the Brax DSP and the current P-DSP will remain labeled as is or more likely as a Helix DSP.


----------



## eviling

6spdcoupe said:


> No offense intended here, but I will take the word from the manufacturer whom I work with over any other.
> 
> The C-DSP has been cancelled. It will still be a product at some point but by then it will be the Brax DSP and the current P-DSP will remain labeled as is or more likely as a Helix DSP.


I had a feeling that might happen. didn't seem like their was really a nitch for such a high end product when their narley identical far as the avg consumer views them.


----------



## Ale555

6spdcoupe said:


> No offense intended here, but I will take the word from the manufacturer whom I work with over any other.
> 
> The C-DSP has been cancelled. It will still be a product at some point but by then it will be the Brax DSP and the current P-DSP will remain labeled as is or more likely as a Helix DSP.


So we mean the Same, just call it different, it seems.
For me it is the DSP, I do Not care about the Name in the end.


----------



## evo9

6spdcoupe said:


> No offense intended here, but I will take the word from the manufacturer whom I work with over any other.
> 
> The C-DSP has been cancelled. It will still be a product at some point but by then it will be the Brax DSP and the current P-DSP will remain labeled as is or more likely as a Helix DSP.


Don,
Please encourage them to add an extra pair of RCA out, when it comes back as the Brax DSP.


----------



## Sptsmed

With twice the processing as the P dsp, they could add four extra RCA outs and cover pretty much any insane install out there.


----------



## thehatedguy

How about a remote controller for it?


----------



## Sptsmed

Or develop and implement the Iphone or Android phone or tablet control platform that was discussed several months back. I have I phone and I pad, but I would get an android phone on my plan just to have control of the P dsp.


----------



## audioanamoly

Well it's been a while since I've been on here and I guess a lot has happened!! I may be putting my brand new C-dsp up for sale. I'm just not finding the time to start my install and all of this nice new gear I have listed in my sig is just sitting in boxes waiting to be played with!! It's sad that they aren't releasing the C yet, but understandable. It's just an insane amount of control to have over any system.


----------



## pankrok

anybody show this?

¹÷ïò & Áõôïêßíçôï - Äñáãêéþôçò ÁíäñÝáò

should somebody confirm that volume level can be adjusted either by remote control or by combination of analog and digital input it will be mine before the end of the day!


----------



## Sptsmed

Optical requires a 10K pot, but does work as supposed to. I am in hopes they do get the bluetooth add on finished, that would be nice to have.


----------



## pankrok

any news on the controller?


----------



## Hanatsu

Haven't heard anything yet, asked my local dealer about this a while ago and he didn't have a clue.


----------



## mob17

Nice to read so much information on this DSP. Thanks everyone.

I'm planning to buy the P-DSP soon and try my hand out at tuning for the first time! I do have some audio knowledge but i can't wait to try work it out.

Anyways now that its been a couple of months are there any current/former P-DSP owners that could comment on how their P-DSP is doing? Have you still kept it and are you still happy? I had been considering an Audison Bit One but i think i'll go for this  I've read all the comments on here and it seems like a really good piece of kit.


----------



## Wheres The Butta

I use a pdsp and really like it. I love the flexibility of the paragraphic eq and it is extremely easy to use. In fact this is also MY first time manual tuning and I found it very intuitive.


----------



## mob17

That's good to know. Yes i used the demo version of the software and its so simple to use.

How long is the USB cable that you use to connect it to a laptop? I want to be able to play music whilst adjusting the EQ and things, and the Helix would probably be installed in the trunk. Is this possible?


----------



## Hanatsu

mob17 said:


> Nice to read so much information on this DSP. Thanks everyone.
> 
> I'm planning to buy the P-DSP soon and try my hand out at tuning for the first time! I do have some audio knowledge but i can't wait to try work it out.
> 
> Anyways now that its been a couple of months are there any current/former P-DSP owners that could comment on how their P-DSP is doing? Have you still kept it and are you still happy? I had been considering an Audison Bit One but i think i'll go for this  I've read all the comments on here and it seems like a really good piece of kit.


I use it, no issues at all. No noise, fast and reliable. Quite easy to use, the sub phase control is a really nice feature. Think I got 3m (9ft) cable.


----------



## t3sn4f2

mob17 said:


> That's good to know. Yes i used the demo version of the software and its so simple to use.
> 
> How long is the USB cable that you use to connect it to a laptop? I want to be able to play music whilst adjusting the EQ and things, and the Helix would probably be installed in the trunk. Is this possible?


Anyone that is available really. USB has a limited max possible length of 15ft. IIRC, so I don't see any reputable manufacturer making a cable longer than that. However you might be able to extend it further using a powered hub, dunno how that would affect device integration performance though.


----------



## quality_sound

I own a USB extension longer than that which was pernamently installed with my Zapcos then I had another 6-footer I plugged into the extension and then the laptop and it always worked fine.


----------



## 83corolla

I just picked up the c dsp to replace my bitone. Too many issues with my bitone breaking.


----------



## mob17

Brilliant. I wasn't sure if there was a specific cable we had to use but if we can use a decent length then that's great. 

Think i've made up my mind now. Just need to sell my ms-8 and a few bits and pieces then ready to order!


----------



## thehatedguy

C dsp yum.


----------



## leogun

anyone has the diagram for Sub and volume control using 2 pot?
thanks in advance


----------



## hippopotamus

mob17 said:


> Brilliant. I wasn't sure if there was a specific cable we had to use but if we can use a decent length then that's great.
> 
> Think i've made up my mind now. Just need to sell my ms-8 and a few bits and pieces then ready to order!


I have sold my Ms8 and currently in the process of installing the c dsp..

u won't regret it..


----------



## mob17

hippopotamus said:


> I have sold my Ms8 and currently in the process of installing the c dsp..
> 
> u won't regret it..


I hope so! Helix should be arriving tomorrow. Can't wait. 

Have you installed your c-dsp yet. What do you think?


----------



## eviling

How you guys getting all these c units I thought they decided to kill that project ?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CLK63DK

eviling said:


> How you guys getting all these c units I thought they decided to kill that project ?


It is for sure not the plan to kille the C-DSP, nor the P-DSP for that matter! Both are selling good and both fulfill the needs of their target groups.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

CLK63DK said:


> It is for sure not the plan to kille the C-DSP, nor the P-DSP for that matter! Both are selling good and both fulfill the needs of their target groups.


Incorrect. The C-DSP has been killed months back. However their initial run was to consist of more than what they had already shipped out when deciding this. They had the parts already set to finish off the run and so they did. 

The replacement version should be seen at CES in January. The P-DSP will also undergo some changes.


----------



## 83corolla

Idk, I just bought mine from Germany direct. I did a simple google search and a store named xtream audio I believe sold me one. It was like 1025 shipped to my door. It took like 9-10 days to get it. It may be going in my new, or replace my buggy bitone. I really liked the specs on this unit compared to the p, but I'm considering grabbing a P to replace my bitone if I go ahead and decide to throw the C in my new ride. I just bought It maybe a couple months ago and checked back a couple weeks ago and they had them in stock. They took PayPal btw.


----------



## thehatedguy

Don you have any details on the new units? Pm me if you don't want to make it public.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

I have some, but I need a bit more time before sharing ..


----------



## thehatedguy

Right on


----------



## thehatedguy

Not that I am in a position to buy anything right now, but seeing what the Germans have coming has me curious.


----------



## Hanatsu

Haven't read through the whole thread... but both C-DSP and P-DSP are available here. Did they stop making the C-DSP or just stopped shipping it to the US?


----------



## thehatedguy

Both.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Hanatsu said:


> Haven't read through the whole thread... but both C-DSP and P-DSP are available here. Did they stop making the C-DSP or just stopped shipping it to the US?


It was never 'available' for the US since it was not a full run project. The project was completely halted though right around the initial shipping release.


----------



## subwoofery

6spdcoupe said:


> I have some, but I need a bit more time before sharing ..


Brax coming out with theirs? Hint hint  

Kelvin


----------



## eviling

subwoofery said:


> Brax coming out with theirs? Hint hint
> 
> Kelvin


maybe


----------



## mob17

P-DSP arrived today. Its tiny! 

What has everyone done about tuning in the car? Just use a long USB cable from trunk to cabin?


----------



## jel847

I just got my p-dsp and it really is tiny!
My laptop literally died this week so I'm buying something new. What is the best device to tune with? Is it possible to use a tablet or is a laptop the way to go?


----------



## Mic10is

jel847 said:


> I just got my p-dsp and it really is tiny!
> My laptop literally died this week so I'm buying something new. What is the best device to tune with? Is it possible to use a tablet or is a laptop the way to go?


netbook or something small. Laptops unless you have a small one, are too cumbersome IMO
made me hate tuning when I had to lug my wife's 17" laptop out to tune


----------



## jel847

Mic10is said:


> netbook or something small. Laptops unless you have a small one, are too cumbersome IMO
> made me hate tuning when I had to lug my wife's 17" laptop out to tune


Is there anything with touchscreen?
I'm really ignorant when it comes to computers and what is compatible with what.


----------



## eviling

jel847 said:


> Is there anything with touchscreen?
> I'm really ignorant when it comes to computers and what is compatible with what.


Their are plenty of tablets with windows 7 and.now with 8 its a whole new ball game

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jel847

So a tablet that runs windows seven would work if so that would be fantastic!


----------



## rsjaurr

I'm looking forward to buy one for my new ICE.So which one is better MS-8 or P-DSP if the cost of both is same? Also out of C-DSP and P-DSP which one is better?


----------



## mob17

Is there any news on an iphone/ android app?

What about an external volume control? Has one been released by Helix yet? If not then what would i need to integrate one using High level inputs?


----------



## coobah

Guys that really seems strange as the C-DSP as well as the software, manuals etc. still exists on the audiotec-fisher website.


Anyway I have a question which still has no answer AFAIK.

What about the volume control if you have only one source connected thru optical input ???



Cheers,

Kuba


----------



## mob17

For anyone who wants volume and/or sub control I do have the schematics so you can send me a pm if needed. 

You have to make direct connections to the internal connection points on the circuit board. You'll need 3 pin 10k pots. I wasn't comfortable doing this so i'll be waiting until the Helix remote comes out:

Audiotec Fischer have a remote for it that sells for €39.90 + shipping. However the adaptor that is required to connect it to the P-DSP is out of stock. They have said the adaptors have been ordered but can't say when they will be delivered. The beginning of the new year is the best they could say.


----------



## pankrok

from these kind of delays in several things audiotec fischer sells , i tend to think that all their production has moved out of germany and not producing not even top of line items.
I hope that I wrong but I do not understand what kind of delay can be prodicted when you are producing your own products. there may be something going wrong but you have the answer from the first moment that there will be a delay of a certain period. 
when delays cannot be determined this only means CHINA. 
IMHO always


----------



## Mic10is

pankrok said:


> from these kind of delays in several things audiotec fischer sells , i tend to think that all their production has moved out of germany and not producing not even top of line items.
> I hope that I wrong but I do not understand what kind of delay can be prodicted when you are producing your own products. there may be something going wrong but you have the answer from the first moment that there will be a delay of a certain period.
> when delays cannot be determined this only means CHINA.
> IMHO always


Actually many of the parts of made in JAPAN and were in very short supply after the Tsunami/Earthquake


----------



## coobah

mob17 said:


> For anyone who wants volume and/or sub control I do have the schematics so you can send me a pm if needed.
> 
> You have to make direct connections to the internal connection points on the circuit board. You'll need 3 pin 10k pots. I wasn't comfortable doing this so i'll be waiting until the Helix remote comes out:
> 
> Audiotec Fischer have a remote for it that sells for €39.90 + shipping. However the adaptor that is required to connect it to the P-DSP is out of stock. They have said the adaptors have been ordered but can't say when they will be delivered. The beginning of the new year is the best they could say.



x2 on that - just got an answer from Fischer.

That remote control is called HELIX URC 2A but from what I understood it's not "made for" C-DSP. It's made to match some other Helix equipment and this causes an issue as it has a MINI DIN connector and the DSP is equipped with Micro Match connector


You have 2 options:

1. "Helix URC 2A" AND a mini din/micro match adapter (which is hard to get)
2. Make yor own remote out of a 4 wire cable 2 potentiometers (if you also want a separate subwoofer volume control) AND a Micro Match 12pin male connector which you can buy in good electronics shop - there's no need to make any direct connections to the circuit board.


My bit's for making the remote should arrive tomorrow - probably will try it out during the weekend - will post the results of course.

It will be cool to have a separate "analog" volume knob on the dashboard - just like the good old "pure passive" cars had back in the days.


----------



## mob17

coobah said:


> You have 2 options:
> 
> 1. "Helix URC 2A" AND a mini din/micro match adapter (which is hard to get)
> 2. Make yor own remote out of a 4 wire cable 2 potentiometers (if you also want a separate subwoofer volume control) AND a Micro Match 12pin male connector which you can buy in good electronics shop - there's no need to make any direct connections to the circuit board.
> 
> My bit's for making the remote should arrive tomorrow - probably will try it out during the weekend - will post the results of course.
> 
> It will be cool to have a separate "analog" volume knob on the dashboard - just like the good old "pure passive" cars had back in the days.


Nice work! I'll try and find a micro match connector from somewhere. 

By the way, i was thinking to have 1 knob for the volume and sub control. The knobs where you push in for sub and pull out for volume.


----------



## pankrok

Mic10is said:


> Actually many of the parts of made in JAPAN and were in very short supply after the Tsunami/Earthquake


no doubt I hope you are right but from my experience working with japanese factories there is always a readiness date which is never exceeded for no reason (you might get what you need earlier but 99% not later that this date)
even after tsunami.
contrary when chinese factories give you readiness time you should not count on it.


----------



## coobah

There's a big text on the top of my C-DSP saying "MADE IN GERMANY" but... well who knows?

The only ting I can add to the topic is that AFAIK the "missing part" is the "Mini DIN to Micro Match" adapter which most probably is not made by Helix at all.

I also thought about a single "push/pull" knob but was sooo excited and curious that I did order the pots my supplier had on stock.
I'm only worried about people touching my "sub remote" knob and destroying the "right" level I adjusted for weeks .

Have some time now and the bits arrived - think I'll go to the garage to have some fun


----------



## mob17

Would this work?

8-215083-2 - TE CONNECTIVITY / AMP - CONNECTOR, MALE, 12WAY | Farnell United Kingdom


----------



## coobah

Yup - that's the one - 1.27mm spacing.

They show 8pin version on the photo but it's marked that it's 12pin in the description.

It's the cable/tape "squeeze" mounting version and apparently it's the best one.
I've ordered 2 types - solder and squeeze - it appeared that it was a lot easier to squeeze the 4 wires of my "scart cable" in it than it would be to solder them with my shaking hands


----------



## coobah

Guys - just to let you all know that THIS THING WORKS !!! 

Yeah! - finally can run thru fiber.


----------



## mob17

Good job!

A bit of a silly question, but would the volume and sub control work if we are using hi level inputs?


----------



## coobah

Well... before I switched to optical input I made my first try of the volume controller on my first setup (thru RCA's) and it worked so... I assume the answer is yes.

BTW: Why would you need a separate vol control if using hi-input? I assume you can control the volume level from your receiver already???


----------



## mob17

coobah said:


> Well... before I switched to optical input I made my first try of the volume controller on my first setup (thru RCA's) and it worked so... I assume the answer is yes.
> 
> BTW: Why would you need a separate vol control if using hi-input? I assume you can control the volume level from your receiver already???


My HU clips at max volume, so i just thought i might as well to be safe. Plus it will be one knob for both the sub and volume 

The link i posted above require you to buy a minimum of 10 connectors. I have found another link, would this work:

1483354-2 - TE CONNECTIVITY / AMP - MICROMATCH, 12WAY, 150MM | CPC

Would an experienced installer be able to cut the ribbon and work out which wire goes to which contact?

Also another silly question, is the schematic from Helix looking from outside or from the inside of the dsp?


----------



## coobah

mob17 said:


> My HU clips at max volume, so i just thought i might as well to be safe. Plus it will be one knob for both the sub and volume
> 
> The link i posted above require you to buy a minimum of 10 connectors. I have found another link, would this work:
> 
> 1483354-2 - TE CONNECTIVITY / AMP - MICROMATCH, 12WAY, 150MM | CPC
> 
> Would an experienced installer be able to cut the ribbon and work out which wire goes to which contact?
> 
> Also another silly question, is the schematic from Helix looking from outside or from the inside of the dsp?


You can set the volume of each channel of the DSP separately and it's output level is really hi so I think that HU clipping should not be an issue but having the sub control knob is a nice thing indeed.

It will be an easy job to recognize the wire/pin relation but cutting the ribbon will give you an extra solder connection on your cable - those are really thin wires

The schematic is drawed like you'd look from outside of the DSP.


----------



## mob17

coobah said:


> You can set the volume of each channel of the DSP separately and it's output level is really hi so I think that HU clipping should not be an issue but having the sub control knob is a nice thing indeed.
> 
> It will be an easy job to recognize the wire/pin relation but cutting the ribbon will give you an extra solder connection on your cable - those are really thin wires
> 
> The schematic is drawed like you'd look from outside of the DSP.


Thanks. I might just go ahead and order that. 

I think i'd just feel better that the DSP is getting the max unclipped signal from the HU, plus it won't take up any more room.


----------



## Mic10is

clipping will cause the DSP to go into soft clip protection and it attenuates the output. It isnt like the Mosconi 6to8 that mutes all outputs---the Helix attenuates the output


----------



## mob17

Mic10is said:


> clipping will cause the DSP to go into soft clip protection and it attenuates the output. It isnt like the Mosconi 6to8 that mutes all outputs---the Helix attenuates the output



Ok so hypothetically speaking, say if level 45 on the HU volume is the max unclipped level and gives a SPL of 100dB. Does your above statement mean that levels 46 and above (clipping stage) will be less than 100dB?

I've always thought that if the HU clips, you should set it at the max unclipped level and control the volume via DSP. Maybe im wrong?


----------



## coobah

I wonder what would happen if you'd set your HU to max unclipped signal and later on encounter a louder recorded CD ???


----------



## Wheres The Butta

coobah said:


> I wonder what would happen if you'd set your HU to max unclipped signal and later on encounter a louder recorded CD ???



simple solution, set it with a 0db signal and you won't find a louder CD


----------



## Mic10is

Wheres The Butta said:


> simple solution, set it with a 0db signal and you won't find a louder CD


setting gains w 0db reference leaves alot of possible headroom on the table.
I set all mine with -10db from the autosound2000 104 disc


----------



## coobah

After receiving an authorization from Fischer I've uploaded the schematics here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...e-controller-helix-brax-dsps.html#post1778672


----------



## JohanW

Anybody used the p-dsp in a BMW with differential balanced signals?

Can't find any information if the p-dsp is compatible with differential balanced signals (low level).


----------



## t3sn4f2

JohanW said:


> Anybody used the p-dsp in a BMW with differential balanced signals?
> 
> Can't find any information if the p-dsp is compatible with differential balanced signals (low level).


Have you tried calling the company?


----------



## JohanW

t3sn4f2 said:


> Have you tried calling the company?


I have sent them a mail and waiting for reply.
Was hoping someone here had experience with the p-dsp in a BMW car with balanced outputs.


----------



## Sonus

JohanW said:


> I have sent them a mail and waiting for reply.
> Was hoping someone here had experience with the p-dsp in a BMW car with balanced outputs.


I called them and I think I spoke to Julian Fisher and he did not know and was supposed to check but never came back to me. However I beleive I found out that it does not utilise the differential signal. I've bought the new Zapco Dsp-z8 instead


----------



## JohanW

Sonus said:


> I called them and I think I spoke to Julian Fisher and he did not know and was supposed to check but never came back to me. However I beleive I found out that it does not utilise the differential signal. I've bought the new Zapco Dsp-z8 instead


I have looked on the dsp-z8 but it looks like it is only available in US.
A line driver would probably solve my problem but i don't want another unit in the signal chain.


----------



## Sonus

There are plenty US dealers that will ship overseas. I bought all my Zapco gear from the US


----------



## Hanatsu

JohanW said:


> Anybody used the p-dsp in a BMW with differential balanced signals?
> 
> Can't find any information if the p-dsp is compatible with differential balanced signals (low level).


Don't think it is... High level inputs should accept the signal (or so I've heard).

Might want to invest in something like this, dunno how to get hold of something like this here in Sweden though:

TX-A2 ‐ Audio Converter ‐ Balanced to Unbalanced

Edit: Saw that didn't want add more units to the signal chain so this might a bad idea after all...


----------



## t3sn4f2

JohanW said:


> I have looked on the dsp-z8 but it looks like it is only available in US.
> A line driver would probably solve my problem but i don't want another unit in the signal chain.


For future reference.

JENSEN TRANSFORMERS, INC. - ISO-MAX® Audio Isolator Products

These are extremely! high quality and passive, but pricey. You also get the transformers by themselves and wire you own circuit for whatever the need. IE bal. to unbal., high level to low/high level bal/unbalanced (ie best LOC you can have), etc.


----------



## JohanW

Hanatsu said:


> Don't think it is... High level inputs should accept the signal (or so I've heard).
> 
> Might want to invest in something like this, dunno how to get hold of something like this here in Sweden though:
> 
> TX-A2 ‐ Audio Converter ‐ Balanced to Unbalanced
> 
> Edit: Saw that didn't want add more units to the signal chain so this might a bad idea after all...


The differential balanced outputs from the HU only have two cables per channel (plus, minus and no gnd). The audio converter has three connections.
I don't know if the converter is compatible with the differential signal from the BMW HU.
I have four channels from the HU does this mean that I need four boxes?


----------



## Sonus

Someone posted a link to a tech-paper from Rane (pro audio) on the differential signal path on this forum. Do a search and you'll find it, very usefull


----------



## mob17

JohanW: You could go for a DA2 and go all digital to the DSP. For this you'll have to recode the BMW to Logic 7/Top Hifi.


----------



## Hanatsu

JohanW said:


> The differential balanced outputs from the HU only have two cables per channel (plus, minus and no gnd). The audio converter has three connections.
> I don't know if the converter is compatible with the differential signal from the BMW HU.
> I have four channels from the HU does this mean that I need four boxes?


You would need 4 of them. I did an install a Volvo V50 -06. Used the high level inputs with good results on the DSP (Moscini 6to8). Thought differential balanced had shielding used as ground... You could try the HL input and see if you'll run into any issues. Noise problems are pretty common I've heard (if there's an issue that is...)

Here's a thread on the wiring if you didn't have it already


----------



## t3sn4f2

Sound System Interconnection

http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/Grounding_&_Shielding_of_Audio_Devices.pdf


----------



## JohanW

mob17 said:


> JohanW: You could go for a DA2 and go all digital to the DSP. For this you'll have to recode the BMW to Logic 7/Top Hifi.


Yes i know. This would be the best. The only thing i don't like is the price . Almost $1000(£600) from UK. I think it will be better priced in US but the tax is nearly 30%.


----------



## mob17

JohanW said:


> Yes i know. This would be the best. The only thing i don't like is the price . Almost $1000(£600) from UK. I think it will be better priced in US but the tax is nearly 30%.


Yeah I was considering it too before but the price put me off


----------



## rsjaurr

mob17 said:


> For anyone who wants volume and/or sub control I do have the schematics so you can send me a pm if needed.
> 
> You have to make direct connections to the internal connection points on the circuit board. You'll need 3 pin 10k pots. I wasn't comfortable doing this so i'll be waiting until the Helix remote comes out:
> 
> Audiotec Fischer have a remote for it that *sells for €39.90 + shipping*. However the adaptor that is required to connect it to the P-DSP is out of stock. They have said the adaptors have been ordered but can't say when they will be delivered. *The beginning of the new year is the best they could say*.


Can you provide the link for its remote?

New year has began...is there any update regarding that?


----------



## mob17

rsjaurr said:


> Can you provide the link for its remote?
> 
> New year has began...is there any update regarding that?


I'm afraid i haven't got a link for the remote. I'll send an email to Helix again now to enquire about the remote


----------



## mob17

Unsuprisingly Helix haven't received them and don't know when they will!


----------



## rsjaurr

Then I believe its time to make one for yourself in fact two!


----------



## mob17

rsjaurr said:


> Then I believe its time to make one for yourself in fact two!


I was going to but then i thought i'll just get a sub control for my amp (DLS A6) and just wait until Helix release one. I'm not the best with small electrical things


----------



## lsm

Im admittedly a little confused here... Are you all taking about running a fiber-optic from your head unit to the DSP? If so that would save some dough on RCA cables and I assume isolate noise much better. What does it take to go from RCA to fiber? Hopefully theres an out of the box solution cause Im not much of an electronics wiz... Thanks!


----------



## rsjaurr

I was planning to keep the stock radio and play everything from ipod/iphone connected to pure i-20 connected to P-DSP with optic cable but then dropped the idea coz making the remotes for master volume and sub would be too much for me.Now i will go for 80PRS which is all in one solution.


----------



## hemman

I have also new release of P-DSP - Helix DSP. QIP Shot -
But i have the problem with the remote.


----------



## narvarr

hemman said:


> I have also new release of P-DSP - Helix DSP. QIP Shot -
> But i have the problem with the remote.


So the new P-DSP looks like the C-DSP? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jel847

hemman said:


> I have also new release of P-DSP - Helix DSP. QIP Shot -
> But i have the problem with the remote.


There's a remote? Are we talking about the DIY remote?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

narvarr said:


> So the new P-DSP looks like the C-DSP?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


Not quite. Narrower, a bit taller and solid solid pieces. More similar than the former, but still not quite a C (look).


----------



## 6spdcoupe

jel847 said:


> There's a remote? Are we talking about the DIY remote?


Yes. No, an actual remote.


----------



## jel847

6spdcoupe said:


> Yes. No, an actual remote.


Is it available? Any pics or info?
I have a p-dsp sitting here I haven't installed because I want some sort of remote.


----------



## acidbass303

Same here....remote please


----------



## thehatedguy

Yo Don, what changed with the new processor over the old one?


----------



## JohanW

I have been waiting for the new p-dsp. The new dsp should accept differential balanced inputs which is a must for me.

I don't find any information about the new dsp on either helix or audiotec fishers pages.


----------



## narvarr

Looks like the Brax version will have optical out!

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## nepl29

narvarr said:


> Looks like the Brax version will have optical out!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


Old news


----------



## narvarr

nepl29 said:


> Old news


Guess I need to play catch up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hemman

6spdcoupe said:


> Not quite. Narrower, a bit taller and solid solid pieces. More similar than the former, but still not quite a C (look).


New Helix DSP:
http://s017.radikal.ru/i400/1301/69/a4ebec419220.jpg

http://s020.radikal.ru/i707/1301/73/f22bd6d1231d.jpg

http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1301/48/15328e0d9ce3.jpg


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## jel847

any more info on the remote? pics, specs anything?


----------



## JohanW

6spdcoupe said:


> Not quite. Narrower, a bit taller and solid solid pieces. More similar than the former, but still not quite a C (look).


Do you know when it will be released?


----------



## Mikischu

I got one of the C-DSP units installed.
Using it to convert my speaker level inputs from my stock head unit into a line level outputs as well as for timing and EQ processing.

Very small unit and does the job well. Not sure what else to say about it really.

If anyone has questions, shoot me a message and I will try to give more info.

Oh and the thing comes in a really nice wood box.


----------



## nepl29

Here's the pics of the remote, just got it today. Thanks again to Don aka 6spdcoupe for importing me one  .


----------



## narvarr

nepl29 said:


> Here's the pics of the remote, just got it today. Thanks again to Don aka 6spdcoupe for importing me one  .


Did the adapter come with the remote?

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## nepl29

narvarr said:


> Did the adapter come with the remote?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


Yes.


----------



## ErinH

does the current software allow for adjustments in less than 1dB increments? That's ultimately why I sold off my c-dsp. As much as I LOVED it, I needed finer tuning capability. Had it been 0.5dB or so, I would've kept it. 

1st World problems...


----------



## charliekwin

bikinpunk said:


> does the current software allow for adjustments in less than 1dB increments?


Nope, 1dB only.


----------



## Hanatsu

This is only bad aspect about it... can't understand why they don't let you set half dBs

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## narvarr

Hanatsu said:


> This is only bad aspect about it... can't understand why they don't let you set half dBs
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


Maybe that will change with a future update.

EDIT: It would be nice if they would add the incremented phase adjustment to all the channels and not just on the subs.
Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## narvarr

New software version is up on their site...2.72. T/A has been increased from 10.4 ms to 15.6 ms. Still the same 1db adjustments though.
Xover slopes no longer go back to 0 when you scroll through the different filter types. Phase is still 0-180 on all channels except subs.
Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Hanatsu

Sent a message to Audiotec Fischer about the 0,5-1dB increment thing. Everyone who feels the same should send a message to them, perhaps they will "fix" this if enough people respond.

Kontaktanfrage, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


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## ErinH

I mentioned it last year when I had one. Didn't hear back but that's not a big deal. I suppose they trade off that level of resolution for something else (such as the PEQ capability or phase adjustments). Otherwise I don't know why they wouldn't allow lower increments.


----------



## narvarr

bikinpunk said:


> I mentioned it last year when I had one. Didn't hear back but that's not a big deal. I suppose they trade off that level of resolution for something else (such as the PEQ capability or phase adjustments). Otherwise I don't know why they wouldn't allow lower increments.


Having half db adjustment really helps. I love that about the P01 but being able to EQ each channel would help me out bit more I believe. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## n_olympios

What other processors have 0.5dB increments?


----------



## BowDown

Minidsp 2x8 (4x10) has 0.1db increments. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## jel847

nepl29 said:


> Here's the pics of the remote, just got it today. Thanks again to Don aka 6spdcoupe for importing me one  .



Holy crap that's old school looking. Looks like the wired remote my father had for our giant VCR back in the 70's


----------



## quality_sound

n_olympios said:


> What other processors have 0.5dB increments?


PS8 is 0.1dB.


----------



## matdotcom2000

c-dsp guts!!!!!
BTW it has the following A/D and D/A
1x CS4385-cqz
2x Ak5388eq
2x Adau14453a
Op amps I think are 33079


----------



## narvarr

matdotcom2000 said:


> c-dsp guts!!!!!
> BTW it has the following A/D and D/A
> 1x CS4385-cqz
> 2x Ak5388eq
> 2x Adau14453a
> Op amps I think are 33079


Sweet! I was wondering which Cirrus chip was in it.
Matt, looks like you've already hooked up a remote volume control. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## matdotcom2000

Honestly not my photo.... but I do have some of my own


----------



## narvarr

matdotcom2000 said:


> Honestly not my photo.... but I do have some of my own


Post 'em up!

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## leogun

How much is the controller cost?


----------



## narvarr

FYI info...
I got this email from Audiotec Fischer:

Dear Mr. Gordon,
unfortunately this software update does not include the possibility to switch between two sound setups but with this software update you have the possibility to switch between an analog and an optical signal source.

For this you have to install the latest software version and you have to connect the URC 2A. Then you have to make an analog signal routing which fits to the following optical signal routing:

Output channels A, C, E should have a left full range signal

Output channels B, D, F should have a right full range signal

Output channels G and H have a summation of the left and the right full range signal

This signal routing is fixed for the optical input and you should connect all output channels in this way* to your amplifiers. Then you have to make a similar analog channel routing for in the Input/output configuration matrix.

After you have done this you can use the mode switch of the URC 2A *to switch between the optical input with the fixed channel routing and the analog input with the channel routing you have configured in the PC-Tool software.

I think with this option you can do the concept you have mentioned.

The 0.5 dB steps will be implemented in the software version V3.xx which is planned for summer this year.

Best regards

Julian Fischer

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## subwoofery

Woot... 0.5dB is coming  Watch out Mosconi!!!!!

Kelvin


----------



## Hanatsu

Wow. Nice!


----------



## rsjaurr

narvarr said:


> FYI info...
> I got this email from Audiotec Fischer:
> 
> Dear Mr. Gordon,
> unfortunately this software update does not include the possibility to switch between two sound setups but with this software update you have the possibility to switch between an analog and an optical signal source.
> 
> For this you have to install the latest software version and you have to connect the URC 2A. Then you have to make an analog signal routing which fits to the following optical signal routing:
> 
> Output channels A, C, E should have a left full range signal
> 
> Output channels B, D, F should have a right full range signal
> 
> Output channels G and H have a summation of the left and the right full range signal
> 
> This signal routing is fixed for the optical input and you should connect all output channels in this way* to your amplifiers. Then you have to make a similar analog channel routing for in the Input/output configuration matrix.
> 
> After you have done this you can use the mode switch of the URC 2A *to switch between the optical input with the fixed channel routing and the analog input with the channel routing you have configured in the PC-Tool software.
> 
> 
> 
> Julian Fischer
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


I'm planning to use ipod through pure i20 and stock radio as two different sources connected to Helix P DSP via optical and high level input respectively. 
I will also make remotes for master and sub volume control using B10k potentiometers and a switch using spdt switch to switch between two above mentioned inputs.

1.Does it mean that I can not do it as per the content of your mail?
2.If I can not use optical connection between Helix and pure i20 can I still use i20's RCA out and still use stock radio as 2nd source?
3.I really want to use both above inputs is there any alternative if above two options can not work?


----------



## narvarr

rsjaurr said:


> I'm planning to use ipod through pure i20 and stock radio as two different sources connected to Helix P DSP via optical and high level input respectively.
> I will also make remotes for master and sub volume control using B10k potentiometers and a switch using spdt switch to switch between two above mentioned inputs.
> 
> 1.Does it mean that I can not do it as per the content of your mail?
> 2.If I can not use optical connection between Helix and pure i20 can I still use i20's RCA out and still use stock radio as 2nd source?
> 3.I really want to use both above inputs is there any alternative if above two options can not work?


My original email was asking about using two analog input sources and switching between the two. The answer is no, but you can switch between analog and digital (optical) input. So your plan to use the pure i20's optical output and the analog output from the radio should work but, I'm not sure about switch between optical and the high level input.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rsjaurr

narvarr said:


> My original email was asking about using two analog input sources and switching between the two. The answer is no, but you can switch between analog and digital (optical) input. So your plan to use the pure i20's optical output and the analog output from the radio should work but, I'm not sure about switch between optical and the high level input.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


Thanks mate.

BTW can someone guide me where to buy remote control (URC 2A) for DSP? Quite a few members have been able to source this.


----------



## eriko7

Hi !
Great forum, and most interesting Topic.
I just installed a PP 50 DSP in my VW Tiguan, together with a PP7E sub.
Very pleased with the result, but I'd like to "play with the buttons" a little.
So I bought the URC2A remote, which can be found easily on the net in Europe, for ex. here :
Résultats de recherche pour : 'URC2A'

Problem is the remote has an 8 pole round connector, and the PP 50 DSP has a micromatch connector.
I see that some members have made up a DIY setup, but I'm not so good in electronics. 
*Would anybody here be ready to make a few*, I'm shure I'm not the only one interested ????


----------



## rsjaurr

eriko7 said:


> Hi !
> Great forum, and most interesting Topic.
> I just installed a PP 50 DSP in my VW Tiguan, together with a PP7E sub.
> Very pleased with the result, but I'd like to "play with the buttons" a little.
> So I bought the URC2A remote, which can be found easily on the net in Europe, for ex. here :
> Résultats de recherche pour : 'URC2A'
> 
> Problem is the remote has an 8 pole round connector, and the PP 50 DSP has a micromatch connector.
> I see that some members have made up a DIY setup, but I'm not so good in electronics.
> *Would anybody here be ready to make a few*, I'm shure I'm not the only one interested ????


So if you have already bought URC2A remote then all you need now is adapter as mentioned under specifications here.
Sorry I have no information where to source it from though few members seem to have this.
Regarding DIYing your own remote here is a great thread about this. I have done same thing and will post the pics soon. You can buy the components required and ask someone good in soldering to make it for you locally.


----------



## coobah

I'd just cut the round conector out. Buy a micro match "riboon type" connector and squeeze the existing wires in it. Done.


----------



## narvarr

rsjaurr said:


> So if you have already bought URC2A remote then all you need now is adapter as mentioned under specifications here.
> Sorry I have no information where to source it from though few members seem to have this.
> Regarding DIYing your own remote here is a great thread about this. I have done same thing and will post the pics soon. You can buy the components required and ask someone good in soldering to make it for you locally.


The adapter is in the lower right of this picture. 









Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rsjaurr

narvarr said:


> The adapter is in the lower right of this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2



Can you please provide me the link for both remote and adapter?


----------



## nepl29

rsjaurr said:


> Can you please provide me the link for both remote and adapter?


It's not available in the states. I imported those from Germany with help from my dealer.


----------



## matdotcom2000

Honestly I hate the remote!!! IT is ugly as all get out.. Soon as I am able to make my own I will sell it...


----------



## narvarr

matdotcom2000 said:


> Honestly I hate the remote!!! IT is ugly as all get out.. Soon as I am able to make my own I will sell it...


Make me one too!

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## eriko7

I contacted Helix, but they don't sell the adapter.
I wonder where you got it from !!!
And they tell me the URC2A doen't work on the PP50DSP. Is it because of no adapter, since it connects and works with the PP52 DSP ?
Anyway I have no time or precise competence sourcing the right parts, so if someone can make one for me, I'll be glad.
Otherwise I'll return the URC2A and get the USBI Optical Interface instead, which will allow me to work directly on the DSP with the software from Helix. 
That's cool, but getting quite deep in fiddeling with the buttons.

A simple sub level remote would have suited me much better.


----------



## eriko7

rsjaurr said:


> Regarding DIYing your own remote here is a great thread about this. I have done same thing and will post the pics soon. You can buy the components required and ask someone good in soldering to make it for you locally.


If you give me a list of the components and a site where I can buy them, I'll manage the soldering.
Somebody suggested this item :
8-215083-2 - TE CONNECTIVITY / AMP - CONNECTOR, MALE, 12WAY | Farnell United Kingdom
Is that the right one ?
Do I only need to cut my 8 pole connector away and solder the wires to this connector according to the diagram ?


----------



## Hanatsu

eriko7 said:


> If you give me a list of the components and a site where I can buy them, I'll manage the soldering.
> Somebody suggested this item :
> 8-215083-2 - TE CONNECTIVITY / AMP - CONNECTOR, MALE, 12WAY | Farnell United Kingdom
> Is that the right one ?
> Do I only need to cut my 8 pole connector away and solder the wires to this connector according to the diagram ?


Most components can be found at www.tme.eu

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## rsjaurr

eriko7 said:


> If you give me a list of the components and a site where I can buy them, I'll manage the soldering.
> Somebody suggested this item :
> 8-215083-2 - TE CONNECTIVITY / AMP - CONNECTOR, MALE, 12WAY | Farnell United Kingdom
> Is that the right one ?
> Do I only need to cut my 8 pole connector away and solder the wires to this connector according to the diagram ?


Check this link for DIYing remote.

That connector from farnell is what you need. Key is 1.27 pin spacing with 12 pin layout.

I'm not sure about cutting that 8 pole connector.I just got it made myself.

Apart from that connector you need 10k potentiometer, one each for master volume and sub volume control. I bought from here, this one. Here again key is rotary,10K pot (B10K will be written under description.)


----------



## rsjaurr

Anyone please guide how to configure Helix P DSP software when using both high level input and digital input? I mean what should I fill in fields of input channels, summation of input channels and output channels?
e.g. If I plan to use just two high level input and digital input, is it ok to write Front L full and Front R full for two input channels and not_used for rest of channels and similarly Front L full, Optical L, Front R full and Optical R in summation of input signal fields?


----------



## narvarr

rsjaurr said:


> Anyone please guide how to configure Helix P DSP software when using both high level input and digital input? I mean what should I fill in fields of input channels, summation of input channels and output channels?
> e.g. If I plan to use just two high level input and digital input, is it ok to write Front L full and Front R full for two input channels and not_used for rest of channels and similarly Front L full, Optical L, Front R full and Optical R in summation of input signal fields?


This is how mine is set up on the C-DSP. I have the DRX9255 running analog on channels A/B and the optical is from a Premier AVX-P8DVD.


----------



## zmcnmf

Hi all,

I am thinking to change my current stock car audio setup.
Currently driving Kia K5 Optima which comes with infinity/jbl speakers.
3 way front passive, Center speaker, 2 way passive rear door, and 8" subwoofer hanging on the rear deck.

I would like to have exactly the same current setup of speakers but replacing all of them to HAT Legatia SE, except the rear speakers (maybe HAT Clarus or Unity or Imagine), JL Audio 13TW5-3 , Pioneer HU.

Question: I know that Helix C-DSP has eight channel out. How do I achieve all the speakers - either 10 channels or 12 channels active. I heard that I could use 2 units of AudioControl 2XS. Would this be ideal in terms of sound/warmth?

If can't then I will stick to 3 way front, Center and subwoofer only first.
Center channel is just for soundstage when there's a front passenger (especially my missus complaining of sound being lop-sided). I was thinking to use the controller on the helix to switch between modes - 3 way active, Subwoofer - or - 3 Way active, Subwoofer and Center speaker.

Would I be able to control the volume from HU - using RCA connection to Helix?
Would I be able to control the subwoofer volume from the controller?, if so, would it effect the center channel also? I understand, the helix has 2 output for subwoofer, I am thinking to use it for center, and subwoofer.

Thank you and sorry for the noob questions.


----------



## matdotcom2000

narvarr said:


> This is how mine is set up on the C-DSP. I have the DRX9255 running analog on channels A/B and the optical is from a Premier AVX-P8DVD.
> View attachment 44695


We need to talk homie... Are you able to effectively change from digital to analog if so how?? Do you use the remote to do so... BTW they just came out with a software update.. I havent installed it yet because I am in deconstruction mode..


----------



## hemman

matdotcom2000 said:


> We need to talk homie... Are you able to effectively change from digital to analog if so how?? Do you use the remote to do so... BTW they just came out with a software update.. I havent installed it yet because I am in deconstruction mode..



I also use Helix DSP with remote.

I can't switch with the remote from high-level to digital.
If the optical signal appeared, the button "MODE" does not work.


----------



## narvarr

The channel routing has to be set up so that both optical and analog match. If your optical source is DVD, output has to be LPCM (2 channel). Set up your channel routing exactly the way mine is pictured and only use input A/B.
Matt, PM me bro!

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## narvarr

matdotcom2000 said:


> We need to talk homie... Are you able to effectively change from digital to analog if so how?? Do you use the remote to do so... BTW they just came out with a software update.. I havent installed it yet because I am in deconstruction mode..


Didn't know about the update! Thanks! Yes, I use the remote to switch and control volume for the optical input. Had some issues at first but my output was set to 5.1. Changed it to LPCM and everything works.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## charliekwin

New version apparently has RTA functions as well...wonder if they're working on some kind of auto tune? Not sure I would use it, but nice to see AF is continuing to add features.


----------



## narvarr

charliekwin said:


> New version apparently has RTA functions as well...wonder if they're working on some kind of auto tune? Not sure I would use it, but nice to see AF is continuing to add features.


Probably not since they have hundreds of vehicle specific files already that's downloadable. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## acidbass303

The RTA isn't for auto tune, they are offering their new measurement tool kit 1 (MTK-1) to be used along with it to make the tuning process easier instead of using another RTA solution. Handy feature depending on the price of the toolkit. From their site:



ATF Real-Time Analyser is now implemented in the DSP PC-Tool software. This RTA software allows a very easy frequency measurement in the car. For the hardware we recommend our new measurement toolkit "MTK 1". The analyzer offers the following functions:
 Third-octave measurement with 30 bands - the same frequencies as the EQs in the DSP PC-Tool
 An averaging of the measurements of 20 seconds for achieving an accurate result
 Displaying a reference curve in the background, which makes the adjustments a way more easy. Additionally the offset of the measured and optimum frequency response are calculated and displayed. The results are not the perfect EQ adjustments but they are helping to improve the sound a lot.
 Saving a screenshot of the measurement
 "Always-on-top" function allows to move the RTA window on top of the PC-Tool software until only the EQs are visible. If you go now to the DSP PC-Tool window for adjusting, the RTA software stays on top of the PC-Tool software which allows to set the EQs while looking at the measurement.
 Configuration menu for changing, loading and saving the reference curve


----------



## Mikischu

acidbass303 said:


> The RTA isn't for auto tune, they are offering their new measurement tool kit 1 (MTK-1) to be used along with it to make the tuning process easier instead of using another RTA solution. Handy feature depending on the price of the toolkit. From their site:


Could anyone with into, post the link where this is (The MTK 1)"
Would love to have a RTA to play with

Cheers.


----------



## charliekwin

HELP/WARNING!

I just grabbed 2.80 this afternoon and ran the update on my P-DSP. Tweeter output, for some reason, has been completely muted. If I click on another one of the channels in the DSP interface, the midbasses get muted. Nothing strange going on in the interface that I can see, and I can't get the channels back unless I restart the car (and still no output from tweeters). This is repeatable; seems to be a definite bug. First time having a problem like this. Anyone else having any issues?


----------



## narvarr

charliekwin said:


> HELP/WARNING!
> 
> I just grabbed 2.80 this afternoon and ran the update on my P-DSP. Tweeter output, for some reason, has been completely muted. If I click on another one of the channels in the DSP interface, the midbasses get muted. Nothing strange going on in the interface that I can see, and I can't get the channels back unless I restart the car (and still no output from tweeters). This is repeatable; seems to be a definite bug. First time having a problem like this. Anyone else having any issues?


None here. My C-DSP didn't update firmware when I connected with 2.80. Must have been specific with the P-DSP update. Is there a way to downgrade the firmware? Maybe try connecting with the 2.72 version and see what happens.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## charliekwin

narvarr said:


> None here. My C-DSP didn't update firmware when I connected with 2.80. Must have been specific with the P-DSP update. Is there a way to downgrade the firmware? Maybe try connecting with the 2.72 version and see what happens.


No sure if there's any way to downgrade the firmware, but connecting with 2.72 didn't do any different than 2.80. I did a little more testing; best as I can tell, this is what's happening:

When starting the car:
1. Tweeters and midranges are muted.
2. Right woofer (channel B) plays correctly.
3. Left woofer (channel A) seems to be playing the FULL range, ignoring the crossover settings.
4. Selecting any of the other channels in the interface does nothing.
5. Selecting channel B causes channel A to respect the crossover again.

No fiddling with the settings can get me any output from the other speakers. Turning the car off (now with a "pop" after the DSP shuts down!) and turning it back on brings me back to the beginning.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm contacting AF about this as well. VERY frustrating!


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Ran through about 8-10 P, C, Helix DSPs with 2.80 and zero issues here.


----------



## narvarr

charliekwin said:


> No sure if there's any way to downgrade the firmware, but connecting with 2.72 didn't do any different than 2.80. I did a little more testing; best as I can tell, this is what's happening:
> 
> When starting the car:
> 1. Tweeters and midranges are muted.
> 2. Right woofer (channel B) plays correctly.
> 3. Left woofer (channel A) seems to be playing the FULL range, ignoring the crossover settings.
> 4. Selecting any of the other channels in the interface does nothing.
> 5. Selecting channel B causes channel A to respect the crossover again.
> 
> No fiddling with the settings can get me any output from the other speakers. Turning the car off (now with a "pop" after the DSP shuts down!) and turning it back on brings me back to the beginning.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas? I'm contacting AF about this as well. VERY frustrating!


Does it play normal without the PC hooked up to it? If so, try unstalling the 2.8 and reinstalling it. Maybe there was a corrupted file during install.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hemman

charliekwin said:


> HELP/WARNING!
> 
> I just grabbed 2.80 this afternoon and ran the update on my P-DSP. Tweeter output, for some reason, has been completely muted. If I click on another one of the channels in the DSP interface, the midbasses get muted. Nothing strange going on in the interface that I can see, and I can't get the channels back unless I restart the car (and still no output from tweeters). This is repeatable; seems to be a definite bug. First time having a problem like this. Anyone else having any issues?



I think for upgrading your P-DSP you need to use short USB cable. I had a similar problem with DSP with cable more than 1 m.


----------



## hemman

narvarr said:


> The channel routing has to be set up so that both optical and analog match. If your optical source is DVD, output has to be LPCM (2 channel). Set up your channel routing exactly the way mine is pictured and only use input A/B.
> Matt, PM me bro!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


You were right, it works.


----------



## charliekwin

An update: it's working again. I had to reset the everything and redo all the settings from scratch. All I can assume is that something was corrupted when the update was applied -- the DSP had also flipped the output of left and right channels, though they were correct in the interface. All kinds of weirdness. Guess I was just the lucky one.


----------



## narvarr

charliekwin said:


> An update: it's working again. I had to reset the everything and redo all the settings from scratch. All I can assume is that something was corrupted when the update was applied -- the DSP had also flipped the output of left and right channels, though they were correct in the interface. All kinds of weirdness. Guess I was just the lucky one.


Glad you got it working again.:thumbup:

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## narvarr

hemman said:


> You were right, it works.


:thumbup:

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## acidbass303

Anyone having issues running the software in 64-bit windows 8 environment?


----------



## hemman

acidbass303 said:


> Anyone having issues running the software in 64-bit windows 8 environment?


I had an issue with it. So far I remember I installed additional driver for USB(USB UART - virtual COM port). Before that DSP Tool couldn't detect P-DSP.


----------



## Hanatsu

The new RTA function is sweet... love this DSP and the interface. Want that 0,5dB increment update now xD

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## Mikischu

Hanatsu said:


> The new RTA function is sweet... love this DSP and the interface. Want that 0,5dB increment update now xD
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


How do you use the RTA? Do you plug a special microphone in the laptop?


----------



## zmcnmf

I could not find helix c-dsp for sale. Can anyone can point me the right direction on how to get it?
What is the difference between helix hx dsp with c-dsp? Whic one is better? 
Thanks.


----------



## narvarr

Hanatsu said:


> The new RTA function is sweet... love this DSP and the interface. Want that 0,5dB increment update now xD
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


I haven't been able to figure out how to load a calibrated mic file yet...

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## req

narvarr said:


> This is how mine is set up on the C-DSP. I have the DRX9255 running analog on channels A/B and the optical is from a Premier AVX-P8DVD.
> View attachment 44695


so without having a physical switch or remote to control the DSP, how do you switch between the analog and digital?

i have a CarPC with toslink output that feeds the optical input on my P-DSP and i have an analog signal that is fed from my cellphone on A\B inputs.

i have it fed as right\left full as you do in the picture. how do you switch between them without having a laptop and two save states - one with optical and one with analog?

do you just pause\stop your digital input, and plug in your analog one and press play - and when you want to go back to your digital, pause\stop the analog device and press play on the digital one?? assuming they are both feeding the input at the same time?

i would really like to be able to hot-switch from my carPC to my cell phone (or somone elses portable media device) on the fly without loading the software.


----------



## hemman

req said:


> so without having a physical switch or remote to control the DSP, how do you switch between the analog and digital?
> 
> i have a CarPC with toslink output that feeds the optical input on my P-DSP and i have an analog signal that is fed from my cellphone on A\B inputs.
> 
> i have it fed as right\left full as you do in the picture. how do you switch between them without having a laptop and two save states - one with optical and one with analog?
> 
> do you just pause\stop your digital input, and plug in your analog one and press play - and when you want to go back to your digital, pause\stop the analog device and press play on the digital one?? assuming they are both feeding the input at the same time?
> 
> i would really like to be able to hot-switch from my carPC to my cell phone (or somone elses portable media device) on the fly without loading the software.


If you had P-DSP you need to do hand made switch and configure the P-DSP as written "narvarr".
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/44695d1367165105-helix-dsp-whos-got-answers-c-dsp-channel-routing.jpg


----------



## req

understood. i have the volume pots wired in, but i did not have the schematic for a switch.

bummer - i do not want to take my car apart for two more wires... 

looks like ill deal with it until the PS8 controller comes in. not interested in taking my whole system apart for something like that when i have a PS8 to exchange the pdsp with.


----------



## narvarr

req said:


> so without having a physical switch or remote to control the DSP, how do you switch between the analog and digital?
> 
> i have a CarPC with toslink output that feeds the optical input on my P-DSP and i have an analog signal that is fed from my cellphone on A\B inputs.
> 
> i have it fed as right\left full as you do in the picture. how do you switch between them without having a laptop and two save states - one with optical and one with analog?
> 
> do you just pause\stop your digital input, and plug in your analog one and press play - and when you want to go back to your digital, pause\stop the analog device and press play on the digital one?? assuming they are both feeding the input at the same time?
> 
> i would really like to be able to hot-switch from my carPC to my cell phone (or somone elses portable media device) on the fly without loading the software.


I use the remote so I'm not sure how to do it without. One thing I did notice is that when I have it in optical mode, if I pause or stop DVD playback, analog kicks in if I have it playing already. Almost like it looks for optical signal first then looks for analog if no optical signal is present. Maybe a simple jumper on the mode switch that keeps it in optical mode.

Hope that helps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## narvarr

req said:


> understood. i have the volume pots wired in, but i did not have the schematic for a switch.
> 
> bummer - i do not want to take my car apart for two more wires...
> 
> looks like ill deal with it until the PS8 controller comes in. not interested in taking my whole system apart for something like that when i have a PS8 to exchange the pdsp with.


I have the pinout from Audiotech-Fisher if you need it. PM me your email and I'll forward it to you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hemman

req said:


> understood. i have the volume pots wired in, but i did not have the schematic for a switch.
> 
> bummer - i do not want to take my car apart for two more wires...
> 
> looks like ill deal with it until the PS8 controller comes in. not interested in taking my whole system apart for something like that when i have a PS8 to exchange the pdsp with.


See link:http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/141022-how-make-your-own-remote-controller-helix-brax-dsps.html


----------



## req

yea a while back i got a schematic from somone but IIRC it was only for the volume portion - it did not have any switch information on it. i used some cat5 cable to run it from front to back.

ill mess around with it and see if i can get both working without a switch. i didnt realize that FRONT L FULL and FRONT R FULL looked at both optical and analog, unless there was an update that changed it, because when i click through my inputs OPTICAL L and OPTICAL R are two of the options, i dont remember if i have optical L\R on the bottom left like the picture below. i think im still on 2.33 software haha. ill see what i can do about updating it this week. :laugh:










also i got this email from julian a while back when i emailed him. the big part is that when you select your source (FRONT L FULL or FRONT R FULL) you *DO NOT* have to fill each one of those SUMMATION OF INPUT boxes in the center column there, only the first one is needed and the DSP takes care of the rest. all the other boxes can be (NOT_USED).



julian fischer said:


> Dear [REQ],
> 
> thank you for your feedback regarding the ATF DSP PC-Tool.
> It is always nice to get a detailed feedback like yours. This helps always to improve the some parts.
> 
> Unfortunately the issue with the resolution [regarding the eq step of 1db] of the ATF DSP PC-Tool is not new for us. I got already some few feedbacks from customers who had the same problem.
> We are actually working on a revision 3 of the DSP PC-Tool but due to big changes in the structure of the source code as well as the fact that we are implementing a lot of new features if will take some time to finish it. It will be a completely new software with a similar design. But it will be scalable and maybe there will be the option to choose different designs.
> Regarding the drop down menus in the input/ output configuration this is actually not possible with the structure of the DSP PC-Tool but for the new Version we will also improve the input/output configuration page.
> *Regarding the idea of having a button that forces all four summing channels to be selected at one time, we already have made an improvement in the actual DSP PC-Tool (Version 2-33). Now you can only select the first summing channel buttons and that’s it. This means we have now an dynamic summing where the DSP calculates always how much signals do you use.*Regarding the functionality of switching between the setups we are actually working on this feature. *There will for sure on option to switch between the optical and the analog signal maybe without switching the setups *because this takes always some time. The next DSP PC-Tool software update should have this improvement implemented.
> 
> Thank you very much for your feedback.
> 
> If you have any further questions please let me know.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Julian Fischer
> 
> AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg
> 
> Tel.: 02972 9788 0
> Fax: 02972 9788 88
> mail: [email protected]
> web: www.audiotec-fischer.com
> 
> Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
> Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
> USt-IdNr.: DE125919505
> Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer


----------



## acidbass303

hemman said:


> I had an issue with it. So far I remember I installed additional driver for USB(USB UART - virtual COM port). Before that DSP Tool couldn't detect P-DSP.


Any link to that file mate?
I had to install vmware and run windows XP to get it running. Compatibility mode doesnt work with it.


----------



## hemman

acidbass303 said:


> Any link to that file mate?
> I had to install vmware and run windows XP to get it running. Compatibility mode doesnt work with it.


I found this driver through GOOGLE:
You can try this:cp2102 usb to uart windows 7 64-bit driver | GPS Data Logger Software - BT747

or: http://www.chinstruments.com/USB_416.shtml


----------



## req

so for those of you with a P-DSP, i am doing some testing and i am in my car downloading the 2.80 firmware right now...

even though the email i got from julian fischer (previous post) said that putting just one summation input on is good enough (firmware 2.33), when i use my cellphone as a source and put it only on the first summing channel, leaving the other 3 as NOT_USED versus inputing all the summing channels, it is clearly quieter.

however, if i put the last set of summing channels as OPTICAL L \ OPTICAL R, all i have to do is pause\stop my analog input (on summing channels 1-3) and press play on my optical source, and voila i have music from my car pc. if i want to use an ipod or phone or walkman, i hit pause\stop on my carpc and hit play on my portable media and voila i have music. i have to use the portable media player as the volume, but at least i have the option without buying a wonky remote.



yay. installing new firmware now (amps unplugged)

wish me luck.


/edit

update successful.

so here is how i currently have mine set up- and i can switch between my analog and optical setup actively. im pretty happy about this..


----------



## narvarr

req said:


> so for those of you with a P-DSP, i am doing some testing and i am in my car downloading the 2.80 firmware right now...
> 
> even though the email i got from julian fischer (previous post) said that putting just one summation input on is good enough (firmware 2.33), when i use my cellphone as a source and put it only on the first summing channel, leaving the other 3 as NOT_USED versus inputing all the summing channels, it is clearly quieter.
> 
> however, if i put the last set of summing channels as OPTICAL L \ OPTICAL R, all i have to do is pause\stop my analog input (on summing channels 1-3) and press play on my optical source, and voila i have music from my car pc. if i want to use an ipod or phone or walkman, i hit pause\stop on my carpc and hit play on my portable media and voila i have music. i have to use the portable media player as the volume, but at least i have the option without buying a wonky remote.
> 
> 
> 
> yay. installing new firmware now (amps unplugged)
> 
> wish me luck.
> 
> 
> /edit
> 
> update successful.
> 
> so here is how i currently have mine set up- and i can switch between my analog and optical setup actively. im pretty happy about this..


Quieter as in lower noise floor or quieter as it lower volume output?

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## charliekwin

narvarr said:


> Quieter as in lower noise floor or quieter as it lower volume output?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


Interesting...I thought the opposite. Volume output seemed higher to me after the update, and I wasn't expecting anything so I doubt there's a placebo effect happening. I didn't do any before/after measurements, so no way to tell for sure. Don't notice any difference in 1 vs. 4 summed inputs, either. :shrug:


----------



## req

*@narvarr* quieter overall. i dont really have a loud noise floor with optical or my phone... its just like max volume on my phone is less than it was with all four summed *VERSION 2.33b*

*@charliekwin* those thoughts were prior to the update, i didnt fool with it again after i had done all those settings. i just opened my 2.33b file and applied it to 2.80. i can go back and see if it affects the volume the same. 

i am just happy that i can use both analog and digital at the same time so i dont need any crazy knobs or switches. i can listen to pandora and all that jazz without messing with anything. heck, i think i might be able to get a bluetooth streaming thing to put on there and see how it sounds. i think parts express has them for like 20 bux. i bet the quality sucks though.


----------



## narvarr

req said:


> *@narvarr* quieter overall. i dont really have a loud noise floor with optical or my phone... its just like max volume on my phone is less than it was with all four summed *VERSION 2.33b*
> 
> *@charliekwin* those thoughts were prior to the update, i didnt fool with it again after i had done all those settings. i just opened my 2.33b file and applied it to 2.80. i can go back and see if it affects the volume the same.
> 
> i am just happy that i can use both analog and digital at the same time so i dont need any crazy knobs or switches. i can listen to pandora and all that jazz without messing with anything. heck, i think i might be able to get a bluetooth streaming thing to put on there and see how it sounds. i think parts express has them for like 20 bux. i bet the quality sucks though.


Ok. Yeah I was told that not having all summed inputs filled in would result in lower output. Glad you got it figured out.:thumbup:
I think you'll like the PS8 as well. I've heard a couple cars with them in the last couple months...very impressive. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bbfoto

Andy, I don't even have a Helix P- or C-DSP, but I still really appreciate you taking the time to share all of your research and info! 

Which cell phone do you have? Is it APT-X capable (Hi-res Lossless Bluetooth Protocol)???

I've actually played around a bit with the Samsung HS3000 BT Stereo Headset adapter that I have, and have connected it to my processor's analog input via a 3.5mm stereo miniplug-to-RCA adapter and it actually sounds amazing.

I'm playing FLAC files over the BT connection from my Samsung Galaxy Note II (GT-N7100). Both devices are APT-X capable.

I was very surprised, the HS3000 even drives my Grado and Beyerdynamic cans decently without a separate headphone amp, and this thing is about the size of your pinky finger! I honestly can't tell the difference between the hard-wired/direct connection and the BT connection. Maybe my ears are worse than I thought, but it sounds great to me.

I know that you're running a PC, but for others out there, APT-X is also supported by Mac OS X Lion. It might be supported by Win7 or 8 now...I haven't looked into it.

Anyway, thanks again.


----------



## coobah

*req* - Thats a great info. As my remote was already done without the switch feature I was worried about listening to radio im my car. BTW: How do you want to deal with volume control on the optical input without having any remote controller?


----------



## narvarr

coobah said:


> *req* - Thats a great info. As my remote was already done without the switch feature I was worried about listening to radio im my car. BTW: How do you want to deal with volume control on the optical input without having any remote controller?


I think he has the volume knob already wired up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## req

i do have the volume knob wired up - but i dont have to use it.

some how, magically, the optical output from windows 7 can control the volume.

dont ask me how. it just works. *shrug*

so i use the built in volume +\- in windows through centrafuse (the program that makes it look like a headunit)

would i like to have a knob? yes. but do i need one? nope. i think the knob would be best for the volume control of the aux input - because i have to use the volume on my cellphone (verizon droid razr) when using the aux input.

i think that BBFOTO's solution with the *Samsung HS3000 BT Stereo Headset adapter* might be something i would like to try. plug it into the next two analog inputs on the DSP and throw it into the summing matrix so i can use all three at once, then get the volume pot mounted properly and away we go.

but if i go to the PS8 then i dont know if i want to bother with mounting the volume pots.

*sigh*


----------



## JohanW

req said:


> i do have the volume knob wired up - but i dont have to use it.
> 
> some how, magically, the optical output from windows 7 can control the volume.


I think I know how windows 7 do this.

The SPDIF protocol doesn't carry any volume information so it's impossible for the DSP to figure out the volume.
I think windows alter the amplitude of the signal.
This is not good because you will not use the full 16 bit range and lose information when the amplitude is decreased. If the amplitude is decreased by 50%, 1 bit is lost.
If the amplitude is decreased 75% one more bit is lost.
On low volumes the range is dramatically decreased.
It is better to handle the volume on the analog side in the DSP using the remote.


----------



## bbfoto

Andy, I see that the Droid Razr is on the list of APT-X compatible devices (actually it was one of the first to be released with apt-x) so give it a shot.  It's not too much $ to try.

You could always use it as a hands-free phone headset in your car or while you're out and about, or at home for headphone listening around the house. 

The microphone is built into the adapter, so you can use any pair of stereo headphones (or your car stereo) for hands-free BT calls.

I even use it on my photo shoots to stream music from my phone to an older portable Bose SoundDock that doesn't have BT (cue the 70's pr0n music, haha). Just know that the included ear buds are crap, and it has a button that cycles between 3 different EQ curves...Flat/Bass Boost 1/Bass Boost 2.


----------



## t3sn4f2

JohanW said:


> I think I know how windows 7 do this.
> 
> The SPDIF protocol doesn't carry any volume information so it's impossible for the DSP to figure out the volume.
> I think windows alter the amplitude of the signal.
> This is not good because you will not use the full 16 bit range and lose information when the amplitude is decreased. If the amplitude is decreased by 50%, 1 bit is lost.
> If the amplitude is decreased 75% one more bit is lost.
> On low volumes the range is dramatically decreased.
> It is better to handle the volume on the analog side in the DSP using the remote.


Correct, that's how it works. 

Digital volume controls - Benchmark 

But I would not worry about the digital volume control in Windows Vista and up. It's a high quality 32bit float implementation that is certainly clean enough for a car environment (or anyone for that matter). 

Windows 7 Audio Playback - Setup Guide - Benchmark

"Keep all digital volume controls at 'unity gain' (100% or 0.0 dB)
This applies to digital volume controls in media players, Windows Volume Control, or any others 
*If any digital volume control is used, we recommend the Windows Volume Control, as it causes very little distortion *
We recommend always using an analog volume control (post D-to-A) 
Read more about the effects of digital volume control to see why this is important."


----------



## JohanW

t3sn4f2 said:


> Correct, that's how it works.
> 
> Digital volume controls - Benchmark
> 
> But I would not worry about the digital volume control in Windows Vista and up. It's a high quality 32bit float implementation that is certainly clean enough for a car environment (or anyone for that matter).
> 
> Windows 7 Audio Playback - Setup Guide - Benchmark
> 
> "Keep all digital volume controls at 'unity gain' (100% or 0.0 dB)
> This applies to digital volume controls in media players, Windows Volume Control, or any others
> *If any digital volume control is used, we recommend the Windows Volume Control, as it causes very little distortion *
> We recommend always using an analog volume control (post D-to-A)
> Read more about the effects of digital volume control to see why this is important."


I didn't think of 32 bit float. The bit error could be ignored in this case. 
Is there a chance that the Helix DSP doesn't support PCM 32 bit float?


----------



## t3sn4f2

JohanW said:


> I didn't think of 32 bit float. The bit error could be ignored in this case.
> Is there a chance that the Helix DSP doesn't support PCM 32 bit float?


Probably not. Though I think the signal only gets processed in the PC at that bit depth. Output would be 24bits if the soundcard supports it. 

Edit: here's a detailed article on it. 

http://blog.szynalski.com/2009/11/17/an-audiophiles-look-at-the-audio-stack-in-windows-vista-and-7/


----------



## req

i knew about bit loss and all that before hand. but my issue is that i plan on moving to the PS8 when they release an outboard remote with a volume pot on the output side. i cant get myself to drill holes and do all this work mounting the helix pots that i put together anywhere when i dont know what kind of format the arc unit will have.

so im just going to utilize the digital pre-processing volume in windows like t3sn4f2 is saying until i get my PS8 back from arc (its out to get double checked before i put it in my car, and i think an op amp upgrade).

so those are my reasons.


----------



## rsjaurr

charliekwin said:


> HELP/WARNING!
> 
> I just grabbed 2.80 this afternoon and ran the update on my P-DSP. Tweeter output, for some reason, has been completely muted. If I click on another one of the channels in the DSP interface, the midbasses get muted. Nothing strange going on in the interface that I can see, and I can't get the channels back unless I restart the car (and still no output from tweeters). This is repeatable; seems to be a definite bug. First time having a problem like this. Anyone else having any issues?


Similar thing happened to me as well while trying to update the software to 2.8 though I already had the updated software. The only difference being instead of tweeters it was the turn of midrange and midbass to get muted and clicking on R tweeter (I guess) the L would go quiet.Everything else is same. 
I will do everything from scratch tomorrow.

BTW my HAT L1 Pro R2 tweeters are giving very low output. Tweeters have been connected to A channels of LRx5.1.


----------



## rsjaurr

Got everything under control few hours ago but sound seems to have changed a bit as if its lacking some mid bass.
I also hear pop more from L side right after turning the ignition off. It was there before as well.Could it be ground issue or I need to delay switching on and off of two amps I have connected to P DSP?

BTW I have saved two files for the DSP software with name DSP-analog and DSP-digital and the difference between two (right now) is that digital file has master volume and sub volume box Checked under device configuration.

I am also posting screen shots of settings for mid bass (Exodus anarchy), mid range (L3Pro) and tweeters (L1Pro R2) in that order. Any suggestion?





















Pictures size edited but some quality lost.


----------



## req

the pictures are too small to read.

why dont you put your two inputs on the first two summing channels, and your digital on the second two, then you dont need two files. keep the volume\sub box checked and use your knobs for both?

they can play at the same exact time if you want. i just pause one, and then press play on the other when i want to swap.


----------



## rsjaurr

req said:


> the pictures are too small to read.
> 
> why dont you put your two inputs on the first two summing channels, and your digital on the second two, then you dont need two files. keep the volume\sub box checked and use your knobs for both?
> 
> they can play at the same exact time if you want. i just pause one, and then press play on the other when i want to swap.


You mean something like in the picture below?


----------



## req

kind of but you did it the wrong way 

in the middle section (SUMMATION OF INPUT SIGNALS) the first two COLUMNS (vertical) put it on FRONT L FULL & FRONT RIGHT FULL all the way down like normal. then in the the last two COLUMNS put OPTICAL L & OPTICAL RIGHT all the way down like normal.

that way you can play your analog AND digital without having to swap files. just pause\stop the one you dont want to listen to, and press play on the other! 

//edit


----------



## rsjaurr

req said:


> kind of but you did it the wrong way
> 
> in the middle section (SUMMATION OF INPUT SIGNALS) the first two COLUMNS (vertical) put it on FRONT L FULL & FRONT RIGHT FULL all the way down like normal. then in the the last two COLUMNS put OPTICAL L & OPTICAL RIGHT all the way down like normal.
> 
> that way you can play your analog AND digital without having to swap files. just pause\stop the one you dont want to listen to, and press play on the other!


lol.....that was funny.(doing it wrong way)

Anyway thanks for great advice.Will try it tomorrow.

BTW what about the poping sound?


----------



## req

your welcome 

its awesome not having to swap my inputs using my laptop anymore. one tune, ready to go!


----------



## zmcnmf

Has anyone had any problem with the new Helix DSP with controller? Any issue with this? 
Any big significance difference between Helix DSP and Helix C-DSP other than the 2x Processor?

I bought Helix C-DSP and found out the hard way where I could not use the controller to switch between 2 Dsp setups. And Helix-DSP could do this.

My new setup has a 3 way, subwoofer and a center speaker. 
I wanted to be able to switch between center speaker on and off.


----------



## matdotcom2000

SOOOO today I made myself a 12v power supply from and old computer to connect the C-DSP to my home system to see what was what (I am still underconstruction)... Also So that I could see if I really want to go digital on this thing and to see if its worth getting the pure i-20... Narvarr is completely right.. All you have to do is connect the controller and make sure that Master Volume is checked in the Device Configuration, hit the button on the controller and you got digital!!!! When pause or turn off the digital unit the analog kicks back in without hitting the button.. BTW when master volume is not checked you have full volume on both digital and analog.. The volume would be the same on analog as if you didnt have digital or a controller..... So what I would do is set analog (radio volume) to the same as digital and that should be PLENTY!


----------



## eriko7

Hi there !
I installed the USB Interface on my PP50DSP, in order to play with the equalization, and downloaded the PC Tool program, but once I switch the computer on, it erases the Car Profile I had in the PP50.
So I have to start over from scratch in tuning the sound.
Can't find the Program manual on the Audiotec site, they are updating.

Can anyone get me a link to the Manual of the PC Tool program ?

Thanks in advance


----------



## CLK63DK

Bonjour Eric,

You can take it from here: http://we.tl/rBBf9uYpIg 

I just uploaded this and the manual for the PP50DSP to you.

A+
Chris



eriko7 said:


> Hi there !
> I installed the USB Interface on my PP50DSP, in order to play with the equalization, and downloaded the PC Tool program, but once I switch the computer on, it erases the Car Profile I had in the PP50.
> So I have to start over from scratch in tuning the sound.
> Can't find the Program manual on the Audiotec site, they are updating.
> 
> Can anyone get me a link to the Manual of the PC Tool program ?
> 
> Thanks in advance


----------



## eriko7

Great ! Thanks ! Exactly what I needed !


----------



## yogegoy

In for the info!


----------



## splaudiohz

any lightly used C-DSP's or good price for a new one?


----------



## killerb87

Anybody know when the MTK-1 RTA add on is coming out? I was going to buy an RTA tomorrow, but I would wait if this thing is coming out soon.


----------



## req

i know that i was able to open the RTA program the last time i used the dsp and i sumbled into it. i didnt think it would work - but it did. i was using my Dayton USB OmniMic  as the microphone. the control is kind of wonky, it only records for a certain amount of seconds before it stops and you have to hit record again - its really annoying. and the settings are very limited. you still need to buy a microphone that is decent too.

you are better off using room eq wizard and a good mic.


----------



## killerb87

Thanks for the info. Whats a good Mic to use with it?


----------



## req

an easy plug and play mic is the Dayton OmniMic that i linked to in my previous post.


----------



## file audio

What? I read 20 pages .. no one told me why this is better than bitone or jbl ms8 .. zzapcoz8. qes.8ppi .. any review unbiased.. I have worrked hard to get the money ..so I want to know if is my best ootion... tnx in avdnce


----------



## Hanatsu

file audio said:


> What? I read 20 pages .. no one told me why this is better than bitone or jbl ms8 .. zzapcoz8. qes.8ppi .. any review unbiased.. I have worrked hard to get the money ..so I want to know if is my best ootion... tnx in avdnce


Why it's better than bit1? It got parametric EQ, phase control for the sub, better UI.

Bit1 got better increments in the level/EQ section, but that's about it.

Never tried MS8, but that's a DSP that's based on autotune, the Helix or bit1 are not.


----------



## file audio

Hanatsu said:


> Why it's better than bit1? It got parametric EQ, phase control for the sub, better UI.
> 
> Bit1 got better increments in the level/EQ section, but that's about it.
> 
> Never tried MS8, but that's a DSP that's based on autotune, the Helix or bit1 are not.


Im looking to get the best option in a dsp eq ..thats why im surfing around info but I cant found any reviews about helix p dsp
I donwant to have any regrets ar
AFter buy this ... any advises? Info..
Is welcome.. I have a 3 way system focal krx3 and sub planning a center channell


----------



## Hanatsu

You can run a center but it got no steering algorithms. The UI is VERY easy and straightforward, the EQ is really good, not "full" parametric but close to it. You can set +6 to -15dB in 30bands per driver, Q values from 0,5-15 and center frequency in 1/12oct steps IIRC. 

It's quite powerful but I don't think it's very suited for surround/center and stuff. Never experimented with that. Alphine H800 got such functions, but it got other drawbacks. No experience with MS8 or its functions, there should be tons of reviews of the MS8 considering its popularity.


----------



## Deadpool_25

The Alpine PXA-H800 is great, but does have its drawbacks like Han said. It does have center channel processing so that's good for you. With your head unit you would need to get the RUX-C800, otherwise I believe the H800 will not power up without a laptop connected. Other than that, it sounds great and has a pretty powerful EQ/TA package.


----------



## file audio

I have to mention that Im not that in for alpine dsp, s y have the pxeh660 and have an awful experience so.. It doesnt have to be center channel I guess im neqr to purchase a helix p dsp.. as I have a very good helix amp..Iam juat wanted to know if there's a better option


----------



## file audio

By the way helix p dsp was ordered last night. .. maybe ill got next friday until then I have 5 days for research, I hope no regrets here.. by the way, any advises reviews about it?


----------



## file audio

Answers or not my helix p dsp is her3 and it s an overall improvement...clean up my system even factory settings. . I dont get it.. about inputs outputs etc when I use only a pair of rcas the sound quality decrease? Or its the same


----------



## narvarr

file audio said:


> Answers or not my helix p dsp is her3 and it s an overall improvement...clean up my system even factory settings. . I dont get it.. about inputs outputs etc when I use only a pair of rcas the sound quality decrease? Or its the same


It is the same. There is no need to use all the inputs if you don't want/need to.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## file audio

narvarr said:


> It is the same. There is no need to use all the inputs if you don't want/need to.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


Ok thank you narvarr ..im hoint to detach the other pair of rcas from the inputs and figure out how to route the system. . 
By the way I have trouble undestanding the save .save to dsp .etc I know dsp only save 2 settings. but what if I have a Micro SD with stored settings? How's the workunf switching dsp stored setting order


----------



## file audio

I purchased a audiocontrol xover 2xs to have a bass control knob it must be connected before or after the p dsp? And how affects the sQ.? Wich option is best ...im planning to put a pair of i dynamic xs65 in the rear doors to have more mid bass support any ideas?


----------



## narvarr

file audio said:


> I purchased a audiocontrol xover 2xs to have a bass control knob it must be connected before or after the p dsp? And how affects the sQ.? Wich option is best ...im planning to put a pair of i dynamic xs65 in the rear doors to have more mid bass support any ideas?


Helix makes a remote for bass and volume control that plugs into the processor. 








Does your sub amp have remote bass knob?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## file audio

Its a jl audio hd 750 ..but the control its expensive. .. and someone is trading me the 2xs.. you think isnt a smart move?


----------



## narvarr

file audio said:


> Its a jl audio hd 750 ..but the control its expensive. .. and someone is trading me the 2xs.. you think isnt a smart move?


In my opinion, It just seems to complicate the signal chain more than need be. But if that's the best option you have at the moment, then I say go with what you have available to you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## file audio

narvarr said:


> In my opinion, It just seems to complicate the signal chain more than need be. But if that's the best option you have at the moment, then I say go with what you have available to you.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


What do you think of this remote bass knob

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=281137560680


----------



## HooRide

Lots of great info on this thread but after 27 pages of text I'm still kind of  on a few things.

The Helix P-DSP has been replaced by the upgraded Helix DSP? How is it better/different?

The Helix C-DSP production has stopped and has not been replaced yet? If so, any ETA?

There is an RTA function built into the software but not an auto-tune function? Is the microphone kit available yet?

Also, someone mentioned the Toslink spec not having volume control, from what I understand about the MoBridge DA1, the car's factory volume control(s) remain fully operational. Or no?


----------



## MattG

HooRide said:


> Lots of great info on this thread but after 27 pages of text I'm still kind of  on a few things.


I've recently just bought a new Helix DSP direct from Audiotec Fischer in Germany so I might be able to help a little.....



HooRide said:


> The Helix P-DSP has been replaced by the upgraded Helix DSP? How is it better/different?


There's not a huge difference between them. The new DSP has a different case that's slightly smaller (2mm in each direction) and is a less fussy design, i.e. no cooling fins on the sides. You can also plug the URC 2A remote directly into the DSP without an adapter (the adapter was required for the P-DSP and C-DSP).

Comparing the spec sheets they seem to be pretty much identical aside from the new DSP allowing you to customize the input sensitivity from 2 - 4 volts on the RCA inputs and 5 - 11 volts (6W - 30W RMS) on the high level inputs. It could be that the P-DSP had this feature too but it just wasn't documented in the spec PDF, I'm not sure.



HooRide said:


> The Helix C-DSP production has stopped and has not been replaced yet? If so, any ETA?


Yes, I tried to get a C-DSP initially but was told by Gudrun Fischer that it is no longer available. She didn't say there was a replacement in the works so it appears that they won't be replacing that model. If they do I wouldn't be surprised if it falls under their Brax product line.



HooRide said:


> There is an RTA function built into the software but not an auto-tune function? Is the microphone kit available yet?


Yes, I ordered the "MTK 1" toolkit from them too for 119 euros plus shipping. It seems like a great bit of kit for the money. It all comes self contained in a handy plastic carry case and you get a microphone that you attach to the USB port of your laptop. 

It all integrates with the Helix DSP software and comes with a USB stick containing all the required test tones. This can be plugged directly into the car if you have the port for it or alternatively you can burn the files on to a CD and play through the head unit. It doesn't auto tune though, it just gives you a graph showing where your levels are currently and then you adjust and repeat the process until you get to your target curve. The software contains several reference graphs for you to choose from, but they recommend using the Audiotec Fischer reference curve. I think you can create your own custom ones too. 



HooRide said:


> Also, someone mentioned the Toslink spec not having volume control, from what I understand about the MoBridge DA1, the car's factory volume control(s) remain fully operational. Or no?


Yes, in fact Gudrun Fischer recommend using it with a Mobridge DA1 or DA2. Mine will be installed in the next week or so in conjunction with my DA2. It's worth noting that Mobridge don't recommend using the DA2 with a DSP over TOSLINK due to it having lower output than the DA1 over the digital connection and therefore an increased risk of noise. Apparently they have seen this issue quite a lot and are in fact planning on removing the digital out on future DA2 units to prevent further occurrences!  

Here's the quote from the Mobridge web site http://www.mobridge.us/products/most-advanced-digital-analog-pre-amp

*Note: If you plan on using an external processor via the TOSLINK optical connection then we reccomend using the DA1 product. The DA2 product has less volume due to it's enabled graphic equailiser utilised in the BMW vehicles. Connection of the DA2 to an external processor translates to very low volume which in turn is compensated by installer increasing the amplifier gain which only starts to increase the amplifier noise floor. The DA1 was designed to be used with an external processor where as the DA2 was designed to be used running directly into amplifiers.*

I do wonder though if this issue could be mitigated by cranking the factory EQ to maximum across all 7 bands and then tuning the DSP from there.....

I'm hoping it will work better than the Bit One.1 I've got at the minute as that is noisy as hell over the digital input, whether anything is plugged into it or not.  If there's no improvement I might have to look at swapping the DA2 out for a DA1 and see where that gets me....


----------



## HooRide

MattG said:


> I've recently just bought a new Helix DSP direct from Audiotec Fischer in Germany so I might be able to help a little.....


Thank you! That answers everything quite nicely and sheds some light on why moBridge gives the warning.


----------



## brett.b10

Hi Matg.
where abouts in the uk are you as I would be interested in listening to the dsp 

brett


----------



## bbfoto

MattG, 

Welcome to DIYMA and thank you heaps for posting your in-depth knowledge regarding the Helix and Mobridge units! Appreciated by all I'm sure!


----------



## file audio

I guess we can share the personal settings via pc to check others eq skills.. I'm going to see if I can upload mine. I have the helix p dsp..


----------



## file audio

one pic is from the eq of the tweeters window eq and other from the midbass
I'm wrong pulling down all the bars from the eq? the ones I think are not used by the frequencies? I'm I right or wrong Who got answers?


----------



## jbeez

can you take screenshots using clipping tool instead? it would prob work alot better, hard to see everything with that glare


----------



## file audio

jbeez said:


> can you take screenshots using clipping tool instead? it would prob work alot better, hard to see everything with that glare


clipping tool is a pc app? or what... hehe glare and dusty screen


----------



## jbeez

Yea, i know on win7 its built in. Start run, start typing clipping it should show up. Or you should be able to find it in accessories.

Or you can hit print screen button, then open mspaint and paste it in there, save as png or jpg

Sent from my HTC One


----------



## file audio

jbeez said:


> Yea, i know on win7 its built in. Start run, start typing clipping it should show up. Or you should be able to find it in accessories.
> 
> Or you can hit print screen button, then open mspaint and paste it in there, save as png or jpg
> 
> Sent from my HTC One


well.. let me take some screenshots from the app.. and the eq. I want to share some settings with other people dsp users.. maybe sending as an attachment via Facebook of email.. to see if I'm I doing something wrong with my eq.. anybody wanting to share can Send a PM


----------



## sqnut

file audio said:


> View attachment 48343
> 
> 
> View attachment 48344
> 
> 
> one pic is from the eq of the tweeters window eq and other from the midbass
> I'm wrong pulling down all the bars from the eq? the ones I think are not used by the frequencies? I'm I right or wrong Who got answers?


Are you running the KRX 2 way or 3 way set?


----------



## Hanatsu

You can pull down those bands which the speaker ain't supposed to reproduce. I use to place a low Q (0,5) EQ band 2 octaves below/above the lowest/highest cutoff point. Usually enough.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## file audio

sqnut said:


> Are you running the KRX 2 way or 3 way set?


hello .. im running the krx3 focal...... but Im planning to install a pair of image dynamics xs65 midbass just to get a tigher bass response,,, the drummers kick in music... some said Im goig to lose some imaging but any way IM not happywith the scenario,,,dont think Im going to ruin my system,,, what you think?


----------



## sqnut

I'm going out on a limb here without knowing anything about your install or the acoustic response in your car. But try this and let's see what happens. I'm counting on a car behaving like one.

This is for your mid bass drivers. You haven't posted the eq for your mid range, but lets do the mid bass first and if things work, we can do the midrange and tweeters.

HPF the mid bass at ~60 and use 24db/oct slopes across the board. On the eq try this.

50 hz - bring this to about where 80 is currently
60hz - Bring this up to where 100 is currently
80 hz - Keep as is for now
100 hz - Bring this level with 125
125 hz - as is for now
160 hz & 200 - Bring this down to where 100 is currently
250hz - cut it down ~-1
315 & 400 hz - bring it up to where you finally set 250

Don't take the above as a 'solution', rather it should illustrate how you can change the characteristic of the sound by playing around on the eq. See if it helps in reducing the boominess in the lower end. Ideally you should measure the existing FR and then make corrections. Curious how this turns out.


----------



## file audio

sqnut said:


> I'm going out on a limb here without knowing anything about your install or the acoustic response in your car. But try this and let's see what happens. I'm counting on a car behaving like one.
> 
> This is for your mid bass drivers. You haven't posted the eq for your mid range, but lets do the mid bass first and if things work, we can do the midrange and tweeters.
> 
> HPF the mid bass at ~60 and use 24db/oct slopes across the board. On the eq try this.
> 
> 50 hz - bring this to about where 80 is currently
> 60hz - Bring this up to where 100 is currently
> 80 hz - Keep as is for now
> 100 hz - Bring this level with 125
> 125 hz - as is for now
> 160 hz & 200 - Bring this down to where 100 is currently
> 250hz - cut it down ~-1
> 315 & 400 hz - bring it up to where you finally set 250
> 
> Don't take the above as a 'solution', rather it should illustrate how you can change the characteristic of the sound by playing around on the eq. See if it helps in reducing the boominess in the lower end. Ideally you should measure the existing FR and then make corrections. Curious how this turns out.


thanks sqnut Ill check those parameter in the morning because my jealous wife is here ,, you are very kind im grateful for your help,  you know sometimes guys think IM strange *( i dont receive the feedback I want to),because the way I type english hehe, but im doing the best I can, expresing myself.. one thing is for shure.. i love car audio every day i do something for my sound, not receive the results I want but in happy on the way home..tnx


----------



## GEE

Why are you doing this ? Put the cursors at 0, use the filters you want. Then EQ in + or in -


----------



## file audio

GEE said:


> Why are you doing this ? Put the cursors at 0, use the filters you want. Then EQ in + or in -


well I notice even with the xovers points, filters and at -24db. after move even the farest eq bar it changes the sound. that's why I'm moving the bars to zero... or my imagination is flying away.. 
I'm going for my first competition this Saturday.... not too iasca official just locally hehe


----------



## GEE

More of all i don't understand the shape of your EQ, it seems that you want the speaker response like it is on your screen ??


----------



## GEE

I've got the Hélix DSP since one month. Now I want to put two different settings on the micro sd.

Should I use FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS ?

Generated two .ac1 and .ac2 files and tried yesterday to switch the settings with pressing the control button 1sec, the led blinked red, but the color didn't change after like it is supposed to do. 

Can someone help ?


----------



## file audio

GEE said:


> I've got the Hélix DSP since one month. Now I want to put two different settings on the micro sd.
> 
> Should I use FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS ?
> 
> Generated two .ac1 and .ac2 files and tried yesterday to switch the settings with pressing the control button 1sec, the led blinked red, but the color didn't change after like it is supposed to do.
> 
> the same problem here.. Can someone help ?


I I'm trying to get some feedback and figure out how to switch settings with the micro SD inserted.. if I got two settings
in the p dsp and 5 on the micro SD the I got seven presets. or Its supposed to change only 2 user presets? that's one thing I don't understand... in will be great to know.. anyone can share some light here? Because after press button only blink but sound it's the same.


----------



## file audio

when I press the button.. if the SD card is inserted it changes the card or the two stored settings?


----------



## MattG

file audio said:


> I I'm trying to get some feedback and figure out how to switch settings with the micro SD inserted.. if I got two settings
> in the p dsp and 5 on the micro SD the I got seven presets. or Its supposed to change only 2 user presets? that's one thing I don't understand... in will be great to know.. anyone can share some light here? Because after press button only blink but sound it's the same.


Firstly there no way to have more than two presets on the Helix DSP, it can only store two. The SD card slot is not for storing presets as such, it is for loading them into the DSP memory without having to use a PC. If you want more than two presets that you can quickly switch between then you would need store them on multiple SD cards, i.e. two on each card, and then swap them out as required. If, like me, you have your Helix mounted out of sight then it's probably just easier to get the laptop out.

The presets on the SD card are automatically loaded as soon as you insert it. The .af1 (or .ac1) and .af2 (or .ac2) file extensions control which memory slot the preset is loaded into, e.g. .af1 for slot 1 and .af2 for slot 2. You can change these file extensions manually if you like prior to inserting the SD card, so you can control which memory slot they load into. Just but make sure you only have one .ac1/.af1 file extension and one .ac2/.af2 file extension.

The control push button is just for switching between the two memory presets, assuming you have two loaded onto the DSP.

From the Helix DSP Manual:
http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/BAs/Helix/Prozessoren/BA_HELIX_DSP.pdf

*MicroSD card reader
The Micro SD card reader can be used to down-load complete DSP setup files containing all DSP settings. The setup file is copied automatically to the HELIX DSP when the card is inserted. Copying is shown by the status LED blinking red; when it reverts to green or orange copying has been completed. 

Once the file has been copied the card must be removed.

Attention:
Do not remove the MicroSD card during copying.

The HELIX DSP can handle two different setup files.These files have .af1 / .ac1 extension, which is copied to memory storage one, or .af2 / .ac2
extension, which is copied to memory storage two. Please note: Do not store more than one .af1 or .ac1 and one .af2 or .ac2 setup file on the microSD card at a time.

With the control pushbutton you can toggle between the two setups. Alternatively you can configure in the PC tool software the mode switch function of the optional remote control URC 2A as “setup switch” as well.*


----------



## GEE

This morning i tried again and i put the sd upside down in the slot and then the led switch orange ! But no sound came out ...


----------



## file audio

MattG said:


> Firstly there no way to have more than two presets on the Helix DSP, it can only store two. The SD card slot is not for storing presets as such, it is for loading them into the DSP memory without having to use a PC. If you want more than two presets that you can quickly switch between then you would need store them on multiple SD cards, i.e. two on each card, and then swap them out as required. If, like me, you have your Helix mounted out of sight then it's probably just easier to get the laptop out.
> 
> The presets on the SD card are automatically loaded as soon as you insert it. The .af1 (or .ac1) and .af2 (or .ac2) file extensions control which memory slot the preset is loaded into, e.g. .af1 for slot 1 and .af2 for slot 2. You can change these file extensions manually if you like prior to inserting the SD card, so you can control which memory slot they load into. Just but make sure you only have one .ac1/.af1 file extension and one .ac2/.af2 file extension.
> 
> The control push button is just for switching between the two memory presets, assuming you have two loaded onto the DSP.
> 
> From the Helix DSP Manual:
> http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/BAs/Helix/Prozessoren/BA_HELIX_DSP.pdf
> 
> *MicroSD card reader
> The Micro SD card reader can be used to down-load complete DSP setup files containing all DSP settings. The setup file is copied automatically to the HELIX DSP when the card is inserted. Copying is shown by the status LED blinking red; when it reverts to green or orange copying has been completed.
> 
> Once the file has been copied the card must be removed.
> 
> Attention:
> Do not remove the MicroSD card during copying.
> 
> The HELIX DSP can handle two different setup files.These files have .af1 / .ac1 extension, which is copied to memory storage one, or .af2 / .ac2
> extension, which is copied to memory storage two. Please note: Do not store more than one .af1 or .ac1 and one .af2 or .ac2 setup file on the microSD card at a time.
> 
> very interesting info my friend! I'm going to try.. I have name it ad acf1 and 2?or the dsp save the names? and after insert the SD card then the stored settings in the p dsp are erased? I'm going to make multiple settings as I have the p dsp in dash 60cms from. my right hand*


----------



## file audio

insert card not make any blinking 
led. no sound change.. I'm I missing something? after finishing any set up it must be press first store? or save? od
or save then open? the two presets must be in a folder? or root? how can I n know if it's af1 or 2? if the name doesn't appear ass 1 or 2?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

whats size micro sd?


----------



## file audio

AVIDEDTR said:


> whats size micro sd?


mine is1gb. I have one of 16gb..whata the best option?


----------



## file audio

AVIDEDTR said:


> whats size micro sd?


mine is1gb. I have one of 16gb..whata the best option?


----------



## GEE

Take the smaller you have . The two files are only 360kB

Envoyé depuis mon HTC One avec Tapatalk 4


----------



## GEE

file audio said:


> insert card not make any blinking
> led. no sound change.. I'm I missing something? after finishing any set up it must be press first store? or save? od
> or save then open? the two presets must be in a folder? or root? how can I n know if it's af1 or 2? if the name doesn't appear ass 1 or 2?


Flip the card upside down 

Envoyé depuis mon HTC One avec Tapatalk 4


----------



## file audio

GEE said:


> Flip the card upside down
> 
> Envoyé depuis mon HTC One avec Tapatalk 4


done.. lot of times nothing happens.  too many questions about the dsp. I hope is the fault card not the dsp


----------



## Hanatsu

You might have a faulty unit. Tried inserting a mem card (fat32,8GB) with two setup files. It copied the files and I could switch without any issues. 

File extentions should be *.ac1 and *.ac2 OR *.af1 and *.af2. The DSP will copy the files to the internal memory and you must remove the card after it's done. If the LED ain't blinking after inserting the mSD card, something is wrong. There cannot be more than two files on the card, otherwise the unit won't complete the transfer. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

file audio said:


> mine is1gb. I have one of 16gb..whata the best option?


2gb SanDisk is tested and certified by the factory.

Amazon has them


----------



## ceri23

Hanatsu said:


> You might have a faulty unit. Tried inserting a mem card (fat32,8GB) with two setup files. It copied the files and I could switch without any issues.
> 
> File extentions should be *.ac1 and *.ac2 OR *.af1 and *.af2. The DSP will copy the files to the internal memory and you must remove the card after it's done. If the LED ain't blinking after inserting the mSD card, something is wrong. There cannot be more than two files on the card, otherwise the unit won't complete the transfer.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


This is the only feature of my HelixDSP I haven't been able to figure out. I get no option to save my files as .ac1, .ac2, .af1, or .af2. When I manually change the extension type the DSP no longer sees the files. I've emailed Helix' Germany website and never received a response. I emailed the USA website last Friday so hopefully I'll get something from them. 

Has anyone gotten this feature to work? If so, can you post a step by step of what you did? As in, "Step 1. Insert the MicroSD into the computer....etc...." I'd like to have 2 seat tuning available at the push of a button.


----------



## narvarr

ceri23 said:


> This is the only feature of my HelixDSP I haven't been able to figure out. I get no option to save my files as .ac1, .ac2, .af1, or .af2. When I manually change the extension type the DSP no longer sees the files. I've emailed Helix' Germany website and never received a response. I emailed the USA website last Friday so hopefully I'll get something from them.
> 
> Has anyone gotten this feature to work? If so, can you post a step by step of what you did? As in, "Step 1. Insert the MicroSD into the computer....etc...." I'd like to have 2 seat tuning available at the push of a button.


When you want to save to SD, right click the save button and the correct file extension should show up (.ac1, .ac2, .af1, .af2), then you save to the SD card location.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GEE

Yes but before click "store dsp"

Envoyé depuis mon HTC One avec Tapatalk 4


----------



## file audio

the extension can be changed manually? then if save asetting in the 2 presetit must be alaays used int he numbr 2? automatic the preset number 1 save all data to ac 1 or af1??


----------



## GEE

No !
1. You load a preset (right clic on "A" button)
2. click "store dsp"
3. right click on "save"
4. choose .ac1 extension file
5. the software create the file

Do the same for a second preset and in step 4. choose .ac2

6. copy the two files on your sd card
7. put the card in the dsp


----------



## Hanatsu

Read the manual? 

Just right-click on the save button and it will generate a SD card file with the ac1/ac2 file extension as the above poster said


----------



## file audio

Ok when the file is tweaked in the one preset the file is saved automatically at af1 and so on?


----------



## JohanW

file audio said:


> I purchased a audiocontrol xover 2xs to have a bass control knob it must be connected before or after the p dsp? And how affects the sQ.? Wich option is best ...im planning to put a pair of i dynamic xs65 in the rear doors to have more mid bass support any ideas?


If you don't like the remote from Helix it's very easy to manufacture one.
I don't think it would lower the sound quality. The read pot value should only be handled in the digital domain (strange otherwise).

I built my remote in the sunglas holder in my BMW. I can close the holder and keep the OEM look.


----------



## 69Voltage

^ That is really sharp looking. Good idea. 

Where do you put your sunglasses?


----------



## file audio

JohanW said:


> If you don't like the remote from Helix it's very easy to manufacture one.
> I don't think it would lower the sound quality. The read pot value should only be handled in the digital domain (strange otherwise).
> Seems very pro to me ....nice..... a lot...how ?


----------



## charliekwin

req said:


> kind of but you did it the wrong way
> 
> in the middle section (SUMMATION OF INPUT SIGNALS) the first two COLUMNS (vertical) put it on FRONT L FULL & FRONT RIGHT FULL all the way down like normal. then in the the last two COLUMNS put OPTICAL L & OPTICAL RIGHT all the way down like normal.
> 
> that way you can play your analog AND digital without having to swap files. just pause\stop the one you dont want to listen to, and press play on the other!
> 
> //edit


Digging back a little bit, but this should also work with two analog sources, right? I'm looking at putting a Nexus 7 in and kind of like the idea of running from a USB DAC straight to the P-DSP instead of having to go though my car's aux input. Doable?


----------



## JohanW

charliekwin said:


> Digging back a little bit, but this should also work with two analog sources, right? I'm looking at putting a Nexus 7 in and kind of like the idea of running from a USB DAC straight to the P-DSP instead of having to go though my car's aux input. Doable?


I have a Helix DSP (the version after p-dsp).
I'm running my Sumsung Galaxy S3 to an USB-toslink convert and have my HU runnig analog connection.
If you are going to run optical Connection to the dsp it is a very good idea to have a remote to change the volume.

My configuration look like this:
I don't know if it will work on the P-DSP.


----------



## miniSQ

without using a micro SD card, and going directly from the PC, can someone post step by step instructions for how to transfer the settings from the PC to the Helix DSP? I seem to be struggling here.

I have a file on my desktop that i saved from the software programs with my initial set up. This is what i did and it did not load.

1. started car, and when system started playing i opend the software program and right click settings 1 to populate the software window.

2. i clicked "store dsp"...and the light on the actual DSP started blinking fast red, as if it was transferring the file...but after 15 minutes or more i gave up.


----------



## Mrimstad

Just a stab in the dark here but, when you start the software you get a list of dsp\amps to choose from, are you sure you made your setup for the right device? Im preaty sure atf stated that settings cannot be used from different devices.


----------



## miniSQ

Mrimstad said:


> Just a stab in the dark here but, when you start the software you get a list of dsp\amps to choose from, are you sure you made your setup for the right device? Im preaty sure atf stated that settings cannot be used from different devices.


i do at start up, and i am definitely choosing Helix DSP.


----------



## Mrimstad

did you try to load anything into the seccond memory bank? just to see if that works.


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## JohanW

It sounds like you did everything correct.

I have one thing you can try.
I think you created your configuration from the demo mode and tried to store that on the DSP.

Will it work if you connect to the DSP and save the current configuration(*.afp file) to your HD.

Work with this configuration offline and when you are finished save the configuration again.

Go to the car and load the configuration and try to store it back to the DSP.

Maybe the *.afp file looks a little bit different if the file is created in demo mode (offline).


----------



## miniSQ

JohanW said:


> It sounds like you did everything correct.
> 
> I have one thing you can try.
> I think you created your configuration from the demo mode and tried to store that on the DSP.
> 
> Will it work if you connect to the DSP and save the current configuration(*.afp file) to your HD.
> 
> Work with this configuration offline and when you are finished save the configuration again.
> 
> Go to the car and load the configuration and try to store it back to the DSP.
> 
> Maybe the *.afp file looks a little bit different if the file is created in demo mode (offline).



this is something i considered as well, and i have tried that in a slightly different way. i opened it while in the car, made changes to it, and then tried to click "store DSP". With the same results.

I am going to try calling Syracuse Customs and see if they have time to talk me thru this.


----------



## miniSQ

Mrimstad said:


> did you try to load anything into the seccond memory bank? just to see if that works.


i have not...but i should try that, but i am trying to understand this whole memory bank thing.

At first i assumed i needed to load the setting i created into settings 1 before selecting store DSP. But the more i read this is maybe only for loading both settings into and toggling back and forth for comparison. Not for loading into the actual DSP.


----------



## miniSQ

One thing i have done all along, and maybe this is part of the problem, i saved my file to the desktop, as opposed to maybe someplace better? Maybe thats why i keep getting the flashing red light.


----------



## JohanW

miniSQ said:


> this is something i considered as well, and i have tried that in a slightly different way. i opened it while in the car, made changes to it, and then tried to click "store DSP". With the same results.
> 
> I am going to try calling Syracuse Customs and see if they have time to talk me thru this.


What do you mean by "i opened it while in the car"?
Do you mean the configuration you created on the PC from the demo mode?
If this is the case my suggestion is different.

If you connect to the DSP without loading anything and then select "store DSP" will it work then?


----------



## miniSQ

JohanW said:


> What do you mean by "i opened it while in the car"?
> Do you mean the configuration you created on the PC from the demo mode?
> If this is the case my suggestion is different.
> 
> If you connect to the DSP without loading anything and then select "store DSP" will it work then?


OK...update, i have music...not sure what the settings are, but i have music

I hit "reset" from the PC, while the PC was attached and the car was running, and music started playing. So thats a first...

I then turned the volume down and made some changes to XO, points..and T/A and assigned my ports...clicked save. Then clicked store DSP.

I am not 100% sure the settings i saved and stored actually "took". But i think they did because it appears that i have 80hz and above playing to my front speakers, and the subs are working.

I have a call into SC...i will report more later...but for now i have music. Thanks for all the great suggestions and help. And sorry to clutter up this thread with my nonsense.


----------



## narvarr

You need to have one of the settings selected to store it to DSP. To check if your settings took, close the program then open it back up and make sure the "Read from DSP" box is checked. Click connect and check your settings. To save your settings in the processor you have to click load to DSP.
The light on the processor flashes red whenever you are connected to a PC. It has nothing to do with any action it is performing. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## narvarr

Another note, if you have to use the drop down box to select your processor type, you are not online with the unit. That should only be required if there is no communication with the unit and it asks you if you want to open in demo mode.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> You need to have one of the settings selected to store it to DSP. To check if your settings took, close the program then open it back up and make sure the "Read from DSP" box is checked. Click connect and check your settings. To save your settings in the processor you have to click load to DSP.
> The light on the processor flashes red whenever you are connected to a PC. It has nothing to do with any action it is performing.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


thank you!! That clears up a couple questions i had. The manual, for as detailed as it is has some confusing things in it. I never read anywhere that Blinking red meant connected to laptop...but that is what it does. At times it was solid red, and i assume that may mean "being written to".

So "read from dsp"...in effect means that the UI will be displaying whats on the processor.

So my question is..i need to have a "saved file" of some sort set into Settings 1 or settings 2 in order for the Store DSP to function properly? I am under the impression that i can only store ONE settings that way, and if i want to store TWO settings, i need to do that thru the Micro SD card?

Down side to that is i don't have a micro SD slot on my laptop or phone, so i will need to buy a card reader.


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> Another note, if you have to use the drop down box to select your processor type, you are not online with the unit. That should only be required if there is no communication with the unit and it asks you if you want to open in demo mode.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


Correct, i did not need to go to drop down when i was in the car and connected.


But i also noticed that the serial number being displayed was xxxxxxxxx or maybe it was 000000000 i forget which, but it was not a true serial number.

Is that normal?


----------



## narvarr

miniSQ said:


> thank you!! That clears up a couple questions i had. The manual, for as detailed as it is has some confusing things in it. I never read anywhere that Blinking red meant connected to laptop...but that is what it does. At times it was solid red, and i assume that may mean "being written to".
> 
> So "read from dsp"...in effect means that the UI will be displaying whats on the processor.
> 
> So my question is..i need to have a "saved file" of some sort set into Settings 1 or settings 2 in order for the Store DSP to function properly? I am under the impression that i can only store ONE settings that way, and if i want to store TWO settings, i need to do that thru the Micro SD card?
> 
> Down side to that is i don't have a micro SD slot on my laptop or phone, so i will need to buy a card reader.


To load to each slot, you need something in that setup and it has to be done one setup at a time. The active setup is the one that you are loading to the DSP when you click "store DSP", not both. So load a file in setup A and then click "store DSP" to save it in setup A on the processor, then do the same for the other setup slots.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## narvarr

miniSQ said:


> Correct, i did not need to go to drop down when i was in the car and connected.
> 
> 
> But i also noticed that the serial number being displayed was xxxxxxxxx or maybe it was 000000000 i forget which, but it was not a true serial number.
> 
> Is that normal?


Mine shows an actual number. Not sure about your situation. What software version are you using and Did you update the processor firware when you first hooked up to it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> Mine shows an actual number. Not sure about your situation. What software version are you using and Did you update the processor firware when you first hooked up to it?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


i am using the most recent version...2.8. As for firmware, the manual said it will check for the most recent FW at boot up and will update automatically. No updates took place, so i can only assume it is the most current FW?

I will double check both of these things today when its light outside


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> To load to each slot, you need something in that setup and it has to be done one setup at a time. The active setup is the one that you are loading to the DSP when you click "store DSP", not both. So load a file in setup A and then click "store DSP" to save it in setup A on the processor, then do the same for the other setup slots.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


gotcha...i also ordered a micro SD card last night.


----------



## miniSQ

question on the subwoofer output channels. I am currently using only one channel, via a y connector to my mono amp. Should i be using G&H together and summing them?


----------



## narvarr

miniSQ said:


> question on the subwoofer output channels. I am currently using only one channel, via a y connector to my mono amp. Should i be using G&H together and summing them?


Not necessary. I'm only using one myself.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> Not necessary. I'm only using one myself.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


i have just 2 channels...speaker level...front Left and Right going into the Helix....so for A, i have front left full selected in all 4 across matrix locations. And for B i have front right full...4 across.


How would you suggest i set up the subwoofer then?

Just use one channel...say G, and go front left full, front right full, front left full, front right full across the 4 matrix locations?

i was thinking it would be front left across G and front Right across H, and then sum them, plus use a 2 channel RCA cable instead of a Y cable.


----------



## JohanW

miniSQ said:


> i have just 2 channels...speaker level...front Left and Right going into the Helix....so for A, i have front left full selected in all 4 across matrix locations. And for B i have front right full...4 across.
> 
> 
> How would you suggest i set up the subwoofer then?
> 
> Just use one channel...say G, and go front left full, front right full, front left full, front right full across the 4 matrix locations?
> 
> i was thinking it would be front left across G and front Right across H, and then sum them, plus use a 2 channel RCA cable instead of a Y cable.


If you have the new Helix DSP (not the p-dsp) you don't need to fill all 4 slots.

I think you have two options.

1. Just use one output and have a Y cable. The row for G or H should have two entries front left full and front right full.

2. Skip the Y cable and use both outputs. The G row should have one entry(front left full) and the H row should have one entry(front right full).


----------



## miniSQ

JohanW said:


> If you have the new Helix DSP (not the p-dsp) you don't need to fill all 4 slots.
> 
> I think you have two options.
> 
> 1. Just use one output and have a Y cable. The row for G or H should have two entries front left full and front right full.
> 
> 2. Skip the Y cable and use both outputs. The G row should have one entry(front left full) and the H row should have one entry(front right full).


i do have the new DSP...and i am doing my best to read the manual...but it really is not clear ( to me anyway ) on how to best set up the matrix.

So i will change A and B to fill one slot...and maybe one slot for optical for when i go that direction?

Sub, my gut tells me to use both G and H...i dont know why


----------



## JohanW

miniSQ said:


> i do have the new DSP...and i am doing my best to read the manual...but it really is not clear ( to me anyway ) on how to best set up the matrix.
> 
> So i will change A and B to fill one slot...and maybe one slot for optical for when i go that direction?
> 
> Sub, my gut tells me to use both G and H...i dont know why


The thing is that you don't need to route the optical in the matrix.
When the DSP detect an optical signal it will automatically switch to opto mode and route it to "Front L Full" and "Front R Full".

You can configure the DSP to automatically switch to opto mode or do it manually via the remote.


----------



## miniSQ

JohanW said:


> The thing is that you don't need to route the optical in the matrix.
> When the DSP detect an optical signal it will automatically switch to opto mode and route it to "Front L Full" and "Front R Full".
> 
> You can configure the DSP to automatically switch to opto mode or do it manually via the remote.


even better.


----------



## miniSQ

Another question on the high pass and low pass filters.

Lets say channel A is my Left front speaker...i have left full range as the input. And i have 80hz 12db butterworth as my HP. 

Common sense tells me i do not even want the LP filter on, but i don't see a way to turn it off...what do i set it for? Or can i turn if off?

Same question for the sub....LP is 80hz 24db butterworth...what do i set the HP for? Or can i turn it off?

Sorry for the amount and simplicity of these questions. I love the product, but i am not so thrilled with the manual


----------



## narvarr

miniSQ said:


> Another question on the high pass and low pass filters.
> 
> Lets say channel A is my Left front speaker...i have left full range as the input. And i have 80hz 12db butterworth as my HP.
> 
> Common sense tells me i do not even want the LP filter on, but i don't see a way to turn it off...what do i set it for? Or can i turn if off?
> 
> Same question for the sub....LP is 80hz 24db butterworth...what do i set the HP for? Or can i turn it off?
> 
> Sorry for the amount and simplicity of these questions. I love the product, but i am not so thrilled with the manual


Click the bypass button.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> Click the bypass button.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


oh yeah...DUH:blush:


----------



## miniSQ

Back to subwoofer matrix set -up....

single output channel H. I put Front L full in the first box and i get sub output...i then "add" Front R Full into the second box thinking i want to do that and immediately sub output drops by about 80%


----------



## JohanW

miniSQ said:


> Back to subwoofer matrix set -up....
> 
> single output channel H. I put Front L full in the first box and i get sub output...i then "add" Front R Full into the second box thinking i want to do that and immediately sub output drops by about 80%


Yes that was strange. Have you read the Helix tuning magazine?
On page 23 there is an example with the same configuration but for the center channel.
Page 23 also say that you need the lastest firmware for it to work.


----------



## miniSQ

JohanW said:


> Yes that was strange. Have you read the Helix tuning magazine?
> On page 23 there is an example with the same configuration but for the center channel.
> Page 23 also say that you need the lastest firmware for it to work.


yes, i have had that PDF open on my mac, on my iPad, and in printed form on my coffee table for the past week

Yes i read pg 23, and that is how i have it set up..FL FR NU NU

I assume i have the correct FW since it also says that the FW will update automatically and tell you so if its not up to date.

I PM'd Syracuse Customs, about this and he suggested maybe i have one set of speaker level inputs wired out of phase. So i am going to check that today.


----------



## miniSQ

My right side speaker wire going into the Helix was reversed. But i did this because actually the right side door speaker was mistakenly wired backwards, and i corrected this phase thing when listening to the JL phase test. So...i rewired the door speaker correctly, and then rewired the helix correctly, and now bridging FL and FR in the matrix gives me proper sub levels. #operatorerror #SCrocks


----------



## ceri23

I still haven't been able to get two different setups to be swappable on the DSP using the remote. Does anyone currently have this feature working?

I've now figured out the ac1 vs ac2 part. I didn't realize that right clicking the SAVE button brought up a different set of options. 

I load a setting into "Setup A" by right clicking it, selecting "Driver Seat.afp", right clicking SAVE, changing the extension to .ac1 from the drop down. I get a message saying "This may take a few moments" with a progress bar that takes it about 10 seconds to finish. 

Now Setup A is still full. I do the same thing for Setup B using "Passenger Seat.afp" renamed to Passenger Seat.ac1 during the save, get another This may take a few moments upload, and the sound changes. I think everything is good, but the remote doesn't toggle between them. The LED switches from red to green, the two dials control master volume and sub volume, and both setups are set to "Setup Switch" under mode control. I've read the manual cover to cover several times. 

I'm sure I'm just missing something stupid, but it's caused me nothing but frustration trying to get the remote to toggle.


----------



## Mrimstad

i think your supposed to name the file you want in memory bank 2 with an .ac2 file extension.


----------



## narvarr

.ac1 and .ac2 is for sd card saving. Only use this if you are saving to memory card and LOADING from a memory card. The file saved for to the processor should be .afp file.
As far as I know, it is not possible to switch setups from the remote...at least not with the C-DSP, not sure about the newer Helix DSP. The only way to switch setups on the C-DSP is to push the button on the processor.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## lehelke3

Hey guys

Can anyone tell me if the new Helix dsp comes wiyh remote ?
If so how does it look ?


----------



## shopzguy

I have a problem with popping sound when switch from HU speaker-level input to optical. There will be a high level popping sound like going to crack my speaker.

The popping always happen when I turn on the system by speaker-level input detection and then switch to optical source with automatic optical detection.

Popping will happen only the first time I turn the system on. After first popping, switching between speaker-level <-> optical is silky smooth until next restart.

To turn on the system safely, I have to play optical signal before I turn on the engine.

I also tried to pull out the optical cable then insert back after play a song, popping still there. So, this prove it does not pop from my optical source.

Anyone have the same problem?
Sorry for my bad English.

My system:
HU -> Nissan Teana J32 OEM HU (Altima like Thailand Model)
Optical -> iPhone Airplay via 12V modified Apple Airport Express
DSP -> Helix DSP
Amp -> Alpine PDX-F6
Speaker F/R -> Some Alpine R-Series, no sub.


----------



## narvarr

shopzguy said:


> I have a problem with popping sound when switch from HU speaker-level input to optical. There will be a high level popping sound like going to crack my speaker.
> 
> The popping always happen when I turn on the system by speaker-level input detection and then switch to optical source with automatic optical detection.
> 
> Popping will happen only the first time I turn the system on. After first popping, switching between speaker-level optical is silky smooth until next restart.
> 
> To turn on the system safely, I have to play optical signal before I turn on the engine.
> 
> I also tried to pull out the optical cable then insert back after play a song, popping still there. So, this prove it does not pop from my optical source.
> 
> Anyone have the same problem?
> Sorry for my bad English.
> 
> My system:
> HU -> Nissan Teana J32 OEM HU (Altima like Thailand Model)
> Optical -> iPhone Airplay via 12V modified Apple Airport Express
> DSP -> Helix DSP
> Amp -> Alpine PDX-F6
> Speaker F/R -> Some Alpine R-Series, no sub.


The popping is a result of the DAC in the optical circuit. There is no way around it as far as I have found.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## narvarr

lehelke3 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the new Helix dsp comes wiyh remote ?
> If so how does it look ?


The Helix remote is a separate purchase. Here is a pic of what it looks like:


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


----------



## coolmind

I did the configuration of matrix like this.From what i understand from the manual if you want two signals on one output you have to choose both signals on the specific location.For me it is working fine.







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Ryanu

Hi guys, need some help here. I have switched my MS-8 with Helix DSP today. Literally, just unplug and plug in back everything. But I hit a stumbling block.

(1) Alternator whining
(2) No sound coming out - experiencing what miniSQ had experienced before. LED kept flashing and unable to store the setting.
I have attached how i configured my setup.
http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab192/Ryan_Ukang/HelixDSP_zpsf908192c.jpg

And I have few questions:
(1) Is it normal that I can connect to the interface without switching on the hu? 
(2) My amp switched off much much later after i swictched off my HU. Is that normal? Remote from amps are connected to REM Out of Helix DSP.

By the way, my setup is as what mentioned in the sig minus the MS-8 though. Thanks in advance guys, really wish to have sound coming out from my setup soonest.


----------



## coobah

Maybe it's just that "RCA ground" went dead on the HU side? Try to touch with the RCA ground (outer RCA connector part) to the HU chassis for a while and try out if the problem (whining etc.) persists.


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> Hi guys, need some help here. I have switched my MS-8 with Helix DSP today. Literally, just unplug and plug in back everything. But I hit a stumbling block.
> 
> (1) Alternator whining
> (2) No sound coming out - experiencing what miniSQ had experienced before. LED kept flashing and unable to store the setting.
> I have attached how i configured my setup.
> http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab192/Ryan_Ukang/HelixDSP_zpsf908192c.jpg
> 
> And I have few questions:
> (1) Is it normal that I can connect to the interface without switching on the hu?
> (2) My amp switched off much much later after i swictched off my HU. Is that normal? Remote from amps are connected to REM Out of Helix DSP.
> 
> By the way, my setup is as what mentioned in the sig minus the MS-8 though. Thanks in advance guys, really wish to have sound coming out from my setup soonest.


i just installed a second Helix DSP last week, after selling my first one a couple months ago and it went much easier the second time.

First thing i did was read that DSP tuning mag that is available cover to cover two or three times. It helps...

I am not even close to being experienced enough to know much more than basic install stuff on this HelixDSP, but i will try and help you until someone else chimes in.

First few things that come to mind...

1. What are you using for input? Speaker level? RCA or optical? With my install using speaker level, i did not use any remote level in connection. That is specified in the manual. Remote out only.

2. There is a setting in the DSP software under power saving that will address your amps staying on after you power down your car. Make sure that power saving is on..and it is set to how ever long you want them on after words. By default mine was on, and set to 60 seconds. I left that as is.

Ok, now to the computer stuff...during my first install i ended up hitting "reset" to resync my unit to the computer and it seemed to work.

But here is a sort of step by step as to how i did my second unit.

Attached all the power, ground, remote and speaker level input wires...but did not connect any RCA out put wires.

Did a fresh install of the software on my PC but did not launch the software until i connected the USB cable from the DSP and started my car, and waited for the green light to appear on the DSP.

I then launched the software...at this point the light will be blinking red...and only means that you are connected to the PC.

With DSP tuning PDF in hand i did a few set up things like assigning inputs and outputs, and checking the power saving settings. I do not have the remote control so i did not touch those settings.

Then i went back to the main screen and set some high pass and low pass settings, and basic T/A settings from measuring speaker distance. I then saved these settings to the desktop.

I then hit (and held the mouse down while the progress bar finished ) STORE DSP. Once the progress bar finished i closed the program. It asked me to save settings again, and i said no since i had saved them right before.

I then shut off the car and connected the RCA to the amp, and turned the car back on with volume down. Green light came on so i knew i had done something right. Turned on the music and i had front speakers working but no sub. But coming back here i reread the last page of this thread and realized i again did not set up the input output matrix correctly. I went back and selected Full left and full right in the subwoofer channel input and red stored DSP and resaved settings and everything worked perfectly.

Sorry so long...and rambling...but i hope it gets to moving in the right direction.

As for noise....there is a 3 position grounding switch...check that in the manual and adjust accordingly.

Let me know if i can be of more help...its much easier the second time


----------



## Ryanu

Thanks coobah and minidsp for the advise. 

Btw im connecting rca to the dsp as my hu doesn't come with high signal output. But just found out 1 strange thing, regardless what config I put, I just dont seem to have any music coming out from any speakers except alternator whine. Could it be my rca from hu to dsp is dead?
Thanks guys

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> Thanks coobah and minidsp for the advise.
> 
> Btw im connecting rca to the dsp as my hu doesn't come with high signal output. But just found out 1 strange thing, regardless what config I put, I just dont seem to have any music coming out from any speakers except alternator whine. Could it be my rca from hu to dsp is dead?
> Thanks guys
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk



can you do a screen shot of your matrix from the PC?


----------



## Ryanu

miniSQ said:


> can you do a screen shot of your matrix from the PC?


I did post in my previous post. 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> I did post in my previous post.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


sorry i missed that...looks perfect to me for a 3 way active plus subwoofer.

I am assuming your crossovers are all set correctly and levels are set to 0 on the DSP.

And nothing is set to "mute"?

During my first install i had everything set up to what i think was perfect..and i got no music either. So with the volume turned down to about 10 i hit the reset button on the PC software and it started playing. Some kind of digital gremlin.

Easiest way to test it might be to try another source...maybe plug an ipod into the RCA inputs?


----------



## Ryanu

miniSQ said:


> sorry i missed that...looks perfect to me for a 3 way active plus subwoofer.
> 
> I am assuming your crossovers are all set correctly and levels are set to 0 on the DSP.
> 
> And nothing is set to "mute"?
> 
> During my first install i had everything set up to what i think was perfect..and i got no music either. So with the volume turned down to about 10 i hit the reset button on the PC software and it started playing. Some kind of digital gremlin.
> 
> Easiest way to test it might be to try another source...maybe plug an ipod into the RCA inputs?


Yes dude.. crossovers were all set correctly and mute wasn't checked either. Yeah I might try another pair of rca from hu to dsp tomorrow. But it was strange, nothing changed except processor. Everything else remained as it is. 

I tried the reset thingy, sadly.it didn't work for me... dang!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Your outputs are not properly configured, they should all match. Ie: Front L Full across the first one, Front R Full across the second and so forth.


----------



## miniSQ

6spdcoupe said:


> Your outputs are not properly configured, they should all match. Ie: Front L Full across the first one, Front R Full across the second and so forth.


I do not believe that is needed in the new version of the software with the Helix DSP. Its not how mine is set up...but again i am a dsp virgin.

From the PDF:

!Note
In previous versions of the ATF DSP PC-Tool it was mandatory to assign all four input fields – otherwise it wasn’t possible to reach the ma- ximum output level. The current version doesn’t require this any- more as the gain will be adjusted automatically. Even if you enter the same input channel in all four input fields this will not have any effect on the output level.


----------



## Ryanu

miniSQ said:


> I do not believe that is needed in the new version of the software with the Helix DSP. Its not how mine is set up...but again i am a dsp virgin.


+1 read it somewhere mentioning that it is not required to do so using the v2.80 software. Nonetheless, I've tried filling all the box previously as well. Unfortunately result was still the same. No music but alternator whining. 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> +1 read it somewhere mentioning that it is not required to do so using the v2.80 software. Nonetheless, I've tried filling all the box previously as well. Unfortunately result was still the same. No music but alternator whining.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


i updated my last post to contain the statement from the manual regarding not needing all 4 boxes set up.


----------



## Ryanu

Rechecked the wiring and double triple confirm on the input output config but still no sound coming out except alternator whine. Is it possible that my unit is the unlucky one (Faulty unit)? Will be sending it back to the vendor and claim for warranty which I feel is the right move.


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> Rechecked the wiring and double triple confirm on the input output config but still no sound coming out except alternator whine. Is it possible that my unit is the unlucky one (Faulty unit)? Will be sending it back to the vendor and claim for warranty which I feel is the right move.


It very well could be defective, but i honestly have not heard of any that are yet. Were you able to unplug the RCA from the input side of the Helix and by pass that directly and go into the amp from the HU? 

If that plays music then you may have a defective DSP. The other test would be to run an ipod or smartphone, or some other source into the Helix, bypassing the car source.


----------



## sbaumbaugh

woud a screenshot of the input config page off the Helix help you?


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> woud a screenshot of the input config page off the Helix help you?



he has already provided that and the settings are correct.


----------



## sbaumbaugh

Low quality photo but it may help you..


----------



## sbaumbaugh

miniSQ said:


> he has already provided that and the settings are correct.



sorry about that...


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> sorry about that...


its a mystery... i mentioned something about checking his ground lifting setting, but i did not get a response on that, or providing a different source. As well i mentioned resetting the unit to resync it..

i struggled with my Helix at first too...cold not get music to play, but restting it suddenly music started playing. Kind of the IT version of "did you restart"


----------



## sbaumbaugh

i posted some info a while back from Julian Fischer.

he sent me a new driver for the software.

they also have an update coming out this month.

here is the link for the new driver for use with windows 8.

not sure what version of windows you are running but here it is...

go to Helix driver update folder...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oj2w2bz2zolbkpw/sxwWAspDaA


----------



## sbaumbaugh

you know i had a lot of minor issues as well, including crashing and things like that... but the new driver i just posted from Julian Fischer solved all of those little issues...

its bullet proof now... not a glitch...

help your self to the driver if might help you...

here is a link to a helpful document Audio Tech put out...

it helped me quite a bit...


http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/file... Special No.1 - The sound tuning magazine.pdf


----------



## Hanatsu

Is the 0,5dB increment thingie coming now? ;P

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## sbaumbaugh

last i heard from Julian he stated it would happen this month...

i should get an email letting me know its been released...

as soon as i get that email i will post it ....

should be any day!!!!


----------



## Hanatsu

Great 

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## sbaumbaugh

Here is our last email about the new software...


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> i posted some info a while back from Julian Fischer.
> 
> he sent me a new driver for the software.
> 
> they also have an update coming out this month.
> 
> here is the link for the new driver for use with windows 8.
> 
> not sure what version of windows you are running but here it is...
> 
> go to Helix driver update folder...
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oj2w2bz2zolbkpw/sxwWAspDaA


I am running windows7 64bit.


----------



## sbaumbaugh

I'm running windows 7 also, i tried the new driver from Julian just to see what the results might be... and so far I've had no issues what so ever.

i would say if you have no issues, don't chance it...

you can always wait for the new software this month sometime...


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> I'm running windows 7 also, i tried the new driver from Julian just to see what the results might be... and so far I've had no issues what so ever.
> 
> i would say if you have no issues, don't chance it...
> 
> you can always wait for the new software this month sometime...


yeah i am having no issues, and am ready to move on to ordering a mic and getting into RTA now that the weather is warming up.


----------



## Ryanu

I tried changing the ground switch thingy but no luck too. The thing just didn't want to play music... Hit reset still to no avail. The only thing that I haven't do is to change source... Connect an MP3 player to the DSP... But I just couldn't be bothered anymore.. Will send it back to the distributor and get it checked. While waiting for the DSP to come back will try to check whether my HU is alright. Thanks a lot guys. Will keep u guys updated.


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> I tried changing the ground switch thingy but no luck too. The thing just didn't want to play music... Hit reset still to no avail. The only thing that I haven't do is to change source... Connect an MP3 player to the DSP... But I just couldn't be bothered anymore.. Will send it back to the distributor and get it checked. While waiting for the DSP to come back will try to check whether my HU is alright. Thanks a lot guys. Will keep u guys updated.


totally your call , but please first take 30 seconds and unplug the RCA from the input side of the DSP and plug it into your sub amp and see if you get audio.


----------



## Hanatsu

sbaumbaugh said:


> Here is our last email about the new software...


"Group delay"... poor choice of words. That sentence got me thinking at first lol.

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## sbaumbaugh

Hanatsu said:


> "Group delay"... poor choice of words. That sentence got me thinking at first lol.
> 
> Tapaaatalk!!



i never caught that but now that you mention it...


----------



## Aaron126

Does anyone have the pop noise when you shut down the head unit?
Also I want to know is it the Helix dsp needs to start up needs about 5-6 sec to start up all the amplifiers is it normal?


----------



## Hanatsu

No. It doesn't do that for me.

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## miniSQ

no pops for me....but i do get an occasional turn on delay.


----------



## Aaron126

May I know your connection? Is it same as manual instruction head unit remote wire connect to dsp rem in, then amplifiers remote wire connect to dsp rem out?


----------



## Coppertone

^^^^. So had you used any dsp before the installation of your current Helix? Just curious as to how you are enjoying it.


----------



## sbaumbaugh

Coppertone said:


> ^^^^. So had you used any dsp before the installation of your current Helix? Just curious as to how you are enjoying it.


Yes numerous to include Alpine H800

I love my Helix and will probably use never switch...

Well worth the investment... Atleast for me...


----------



## Coppertone

I only run a 2 way so I use a Mosconi 4to6, but was really intrigued enough by the Helix to want to order one. Alas it would just be overkill for how my system is run, and would only serve for me to be able to state that I have one. What does the Helix remote look like please ?


----------



## sbaumbaugh

I have the remote...

It does what it's supposed to but is very simple overall.

Short of system volume, sub volume and switching between 2 presets it's limited in functionality...


----------



## Coppertone

When I purchased my 4to6, I purchased everything that you could possibly buy to go along with it. I must say that the Bluetooth dongle was a great purchase. As I do not change my settings, my display has been disconnected and put back into its box.


----------



## narvarr

Coppertone said:


> I only run a 2 way so I use a Mosconi 4to6, but was really intrigued enough by the Helix to want to order one. Alas it would just be overkill for how my system is run, and would only serve for me to be able to state that I have one. What does the Helix remote look like please ?












Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## Coppertone

Ok I now see what you mean as far as a basic unit.


----------



## miniSQ

Coppertone said:


> Ok I now see what you mean as far as a basic unit.


Its really not needed unless you have an optical input. For me it just got in the way so i sold it.


----------



## Coppertone

This is just another one of those " I don't need it but if I can get it" deals with me. Being at home all day tends to make me just spend senselessly. Yet when I want or need to go places I'm tied down making sure my loves of my life go where they need to. Retirement really sucks some times.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Anyone here able to compare the SQ of the Helix C-DSP to the Clarion DRZ9255?


----------



## Hanatsu

The what? The Helix doesn't color the sound at all.

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Hanatsu said:


> The what? The Helix doesn't color the sound at all.
> 
> Tapaaatalk!!


There is a very big difference in sound between my DRX9255 and my minidsp 2x8, hence why I asked


----------



## miniSQ

Architect7 said:


> There is a very big difference in sound between my DRX9255 and my minidsp 2x8, hence why I asked


one is a head unit ( no DSP ), and the other is a DSP ( no head unit )....just curious as to how you compare their SQ?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Both are a DAC and preamp, not much of a difference minus the transport . And the DRZ is a DSP (I've owned/heard the DRX, not the DRZ but considering one since the DRX has a great sound quality to it).


----------



## Hanatsu

Ok... don't ask me. Never heard any difference in any DAC, HU, DSP passthrough etc. No one else should hear any difference, any distortion is far far down below the audibility threshold. 

What exactly to you mean by "big"?


----------



## Ryanu

Probably 1 thing that I could comment is that drz9255 is more warm sounding... the helix dsp depends what source u match is with and whether u connect to the dsp via rca or digital. Some even say different RCA will give different results. Well.. it is just my 2 cents. 

Nontheless... helix dsp has more flexibility in terms of tuning.. so that will definitely a + point. 

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Thanks! My source would be a hard drive media player with optical out.


----------



## sqnut

Architect7 said:


> Anyone here able to compare the SQ of the Helix C-DSP to the Clarion DRZ9255?


SQ is what you get when you sit in front of a good 2ch setup. Close your eyes and listen, SQ is the quality of your AV experience. Headphones just give you the audio, for the visual bit you need to hear the room. 

In a car, SQ is something you get by tweaking the hell out of your response. To do this you need dsp. The Helix is a processor and offers much wider span of control at a much finer resolution than the DRZ. The DRZ is just a hu with some dsp. The Helix would take you much further toward the SQ goal, once you figure out how to use the dsp. 

If you're talking about hearing an SQ difference based purely on electronic parts then that is just gibberish.


----------



## Hanatsu

sqnut said:


> SQ is what you get when you sit in front of a good 2ch setup. Close your eyes and listen, SQ is the quality of your AV experience. Headphones just give you the audio, for the visual bit you need to hear the room.
> 
> In a car, SQ is something you get by tweaking the hell out of your response. To do this you need dsp. The Helix is a processor and offers much wider span of control at a much finer resolution than the DRZ. The DRZ is just a hu with some dsp. The Helix would take you much further toward the SQ goal, once you figure out how to use the dsp.
> 
> If you're talking about hearing an SQ difference based purely on electronic parts then that is just gibberish.


You saved me the trouble writing that 

Agreed 101%

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## crea_78

Coppertone said:


> I only run a 2 way so I use a Mosconi 4to6, but was really intrigued enough by the Helix to want to order one. Alas it would just be overkill for how my system is run, and would only serve for me to be able to state that I have one. What does the Helix remote look like please ?


If you ever think about selling your Mosconi, I will consider buying it from you 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## A-Ron

Any idea what the cost of a C-DSP is??


----------



## jbeez

Having a strange helix dsp issue, my helix is completely ignoring remote in signal it just turns itself on and stays on, as a quick hack so I don't drain my battery I swapped the 12v and remote in wire. I really need to get it to behave properly though because its giving me a turnoff thump on my sub amp in this configuration of course.

I just installed it yesterday so its a pretty clean slate. 2014 Taurus SHO w/ sony sound, I tapped the outs from factory amp into an LC8i, summed front tweeter and doors in lc8i and ship 2 pair of RCAs into the helix. out of helix is 2 pair of RCA, one going to an amp for highs that isn't hooked into anything yet, and the other going to a zapco c2k 9.0xd for sub which I just have a test single alpine 12 in a ported box so I can adjust my gains properly. I do have the separate wired remote to control the helix as well.

Anyone seen this from the helix? Is there somewhere in the software(2.80) that is doing something I'm missing? The helix seems to stay on even with no remote in hooked up and no rcas coming into it.


----------



## miniSQ

jbeez said:


> Having a strange helix dsp issue, my helix is completely ignoring remote in signal it just turns itself on and stays on, as a quick hack so I don't drain my battery I swapped the 12v and remote in wire. I really need to get it to behave properly though because its giving me a turnoff thump on my sub amp in this configuration of course.
> 
> I just installed it yesterday so its a pretty clean slate. 2014 Taurus SHO w/ sony sound, I tapped the outs from factory amp into an LC8i, summed front tweeter and doors in lc8i and ship 2 pair of RCAs into the helix. out of helix is 2 pair of RCA, one going to an amp for highs that isn't hooked into anything yet, and the other going to a zapco c2k 9.0xd for sub which I just have a test single alpine 12 in a ported box so I can adjust my gains properly. I do have the separate wired remote to control the helix as well.
> 
> Anyone seen this from the helix? Is there somewhere in the software(2.80) that is doing something I'm missing? The helix seems to stay on even with no remote in hooked up and no rcas coming into it.


There is a setting in the software that affects delay "turn off"...but i do not believe it involves turn on. But you could try changing it from the default of 60seconds.

Is it also turning on your amps with car off? Are you using the remote?


----------



## jbeez

it was turning my zapco on and off from what I could tell with the car off. The fans would spin up and shutdown. I need to put my multimeter on the remote out and see if it was pulsing that signal.

The remote turn-on hookup as I envisioned it was as such,

lc8i remout -> helixdsp -> zapco c2k 9.0 -> rf800a4(highs)

so right now its not like that because the helix stays on 24/7. Even when I remove the lc8i so nothing feeds remote in the helix and no rca signal feeding in, it still stays on with the car off.


----------



## jbeez

just went out to my car and hooked the helix back up, its staying off.... strange. anyway now independant of the helix it seems like my zapco 9.0 is just running the fans while the car is off. car has been off for like 4hrs and those fans are running. I unplugged the remote connection jumper for remote turn on and its still going heh. So I guess the fans spinning on my zapco were unrelated to the helix at all


----------



## goodstuff

Bad remote on the Zapco?


----------



## jbeez

After much trial and error with pulling fuses, disconnecting various wires one at a time and testing with my meter I believe I've corrected it.

I had to open the audio control LC8i and change the jumper from isolated to 200ohm, and that fixed it.

The final thing I tested before trying this was just everything unhooked from lc8i except power and ground, when i hook those up, no issues on the helix, it didn't turn on at all. and the remote out wasn't hooked upto the lc8i at this point(which goes to the helix).

next i plugged 1 pair of rca in from the lc8i feeding the helix. as soon as I did this and restored 12v and grnd to the lc8i, the helix turned itself on, sans remote in signal.

I then popped open the lc8i, changed the jumper, reconnected everything, and it all seems good.


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> Here is our last email about the new software...


any news?


----------



## sbaumbaugh

miniSQ said:


> any news?


I got nothing...
Checked over the weekend and saw nothing new.

Probably a good time to mention the word...

Patience???


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> I got nothing...
> Checked over the weekend and saw nothing new.
> 
> Probably a good time to mention the word...
> 
> Patience???


no worries, i just ripped out my system last week and switched over to an active set up and am ready to hit the restart button in the morning. So i was just wondering if there was any news.


----------



## miniSQ

Ryanu said:


> Rechecked the wiring and double triple confirm on the input output config but still no sound coming out except alternator whine. Is it possible that my unit is the unlucky one (Faulty unit)? Will be sending it back to the vendor and claim for warranty which I feel is the right move.


How did this work out?


----------



## BlackHHR

Good question ^^^ How did that issue work out for you ?


----------



## Ryanu

miniSQ said:


> How did this work out?


Hi guys.. thanks for the concern... did a bench test for the dsp... it works like a champ.... so decided to troubleshoot amp and my hu. Apparently found out that one of the wires on the hu dcdc connectors came loose. Currently in the midst of finishing up my amp rack and some cosmetics 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

Ryanu said:


> Hi guys.. thanks for the concern... did a bench test for the dsp... it works like a champ.... so decided to troubleshoot amp and my hu. Apparently found out that one of the wires on the hu dcdc connectors came loose. Currently in the midst of finishing up my amp rack and some cosmetics
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Excellent !! Heard nothing but good things about the helix . Glad you got it worked out ..


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

I just purchased mines! I am excited about this!
I have not read through it all, but is there an app for it yet?


----------



## miniSQ

Huckleberry Sound said:


> I just purchased mines! I am excited about this!
> I have not read through it all, but is there an app for it yet?


there is not a phone app no, i believe you can run the software on any tablet that runs a true microsoft OS. So not a chromebook, and not android.

I love mine, and while it was a bit daunting at first, once you read thru the PDF set up guide a few times it is actually quite simple to operate.


----------



## hykhleif

do u think guys there will be ever a remote control released besides the one they have now for c dsp


----------



## BlackHHR

hykhleif said:


> do u think guys there will be ever a remote control released besides the one they have now for c dsp


Our Helix was installed and set up last Wednesday . With the amount of flexibility in the head unit, personally I do not see the need for a "remote control" for the Helix processor . The head unit we have now is AVH-4000NEX was set flat on all settings . The system was tuned via the helix dsp . Now we have a multitude of adjustments from the head unit . 
The software for the Helix will install and function on a Microsoft based os netbook or laptop . 
So basically the netbook or laptop is the "remote control" for the helix dsp . 
The Helix is bad azz ......


----------



## Hanatsu

Best interface evah xD

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## miniSQ

BlackHHR said:


> Our Helix was installed and set up last Wednesday . With the amount of flexibility in the head unit, personally I do not see the need for a "remote control" for the Helix processor . The head unit we have now is AVH-4000NEX was set flat on all settings . The system was tuned via the helix dsp . Now we have a multitude of adjustments from the head unit .
> The software for the Helix will install and function on a Microsoft based os netbook or laptop .
> So basically the netbook or laptop is the "remote control" for the helix dsp .
> The Helix is bad azz ......


agreed...there is not really much on the Helix that needs to be adjusted on the fly while you are driving. i would vote for a small netbook as well.


----------



## hykhleif

can I ask a question related to software

I have a gigabyte UMPC window 7 tablet ( 7 inch ) and the helix software is not shown fully, part of the screen is cut , how can I make the software appear completely 

the resolution of that tablet is 1024*600


----------



## miniSQ

Time to cook...


----------



## splaudiohz

Love my C-DSP !!!


----------



## hykhleif

i managed to use the c dsp and its an amazing dsp compared to the aline 700 i had

I played around the settings and I got a great sound

since its easy to upload presets how about we create a database of presets

if any of you can share their c dsp presets I would like to try different ones without TA as TA needs to be dialled in differently from car to car

plz email me them at [email protected]


----------



## req

kykhleif - each car is completly different, and each system is completly different. you need to understand the purpose behind tuning the DSP - and not just try and throw other peoples crossover points and EQ at your own setup.


what are you having trouble with?


----------



## hykhleif

i started with the basics and so far I am more than happy

now I want to start experimenting, but I tired some settings that I thing contributed me blowing my tweeters when I used other settings than the butter worth.

So I was wondering how those crossover settings differ as I am afraid I will blow my tweeters again.

By all means the sound so far is the best i ever heard


----------



## hykhleif

miniSQ said:


> Time to cook...


what is this for


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> what is this for


USB mic that i will use with the RTA software that part of the helix audiotec fisher package.


----------



## BlackHHR

miniSQ said:


> USB mic that i will use with the RTA software that part of the helix audiotec fisher package.


Is that what you bought the wife for mothers day ? Excellent choice , she will love it .... Make sure you wrap it up and put a nice card with it .


----------



## hykhleif

i was wondering is there a way other than white noise to set the sensitivity level of the helix c dsp, as I can't find the white noise 0db on helix website

can someone send me this 0db white noise so I set the sensitivity of the c dsp

also just a stupid question, I have an rca coming out from my pioneer 80prs to the line input of helix c dsp and I put it into channel A B, do this means that button A on the top of the helix c dsp control the volume. Shall I turn the remaining top button all counter clock wise or it does not matter as I am only using channel AB line input


----------



## Hanatsu

High Quality White Noise | Play & Download .wav .mp3 Audio Files


----------



## hykhleif

can u plz double check my input settings

I have have the rca from the pioneer coming to one pair input of the helix AB

and as for outputs

A- Front left hertz mille tweeters
B- Front right hertz mille tweeters
C- Front left hertz mille woofer
D- front Right hertz mille woofer
E- Rear left hertz xl comp ( passive )
F- Rear right hertz xk comp ( passive )
G-arc audio sub
H- arc audio sub

is the setting entered into the helix software correct.


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> can u plz double check my input settings
> 
> I have have the rca from the pioneer coming to one pair input of the helix AB
> 
> and as for outputs
> 
> A- Front left hertz mille tweeters
> B- Front right hertz mille tweeters
> C- Front left hertz mille woofer
> D- front Right hertz mille woofer
> E- Rear left hertz xl comp ( passive )
> F- Rear right hertz xk comp ( passive )
> G-arc audio sub
> H- arc audio sub
> 
> is the setting entered into the helix software correct.


Is this the file i sent you? with or without T/A? Can you post a larger screen shot? Its tough to read that one.


----------



## hykhleif

i uploaded it again the pic

I was wondering should I not chose woofer for C and D instead of mid

also I was wondering if I use a Y connector for my 2 subs and connect them to G only would I get a better sound than using GH


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> i uploaded it again the pic
> 
> I was wondering should I not chose woofer for C and D instead of mid
> 
> also I was wondering if I use a Y connector for my 2 subs and connect them to G only would I get a better sound than using GH


i do not believe it matters choosing woofer or mid since i set it up to have a low pass and a high filter set. Its just a name.

As for subs, yes i was asking you as well why you set your subs up on G&H, being that you have a mono amp.

I have 2 10" subs bridged to a 4ohm load on a mono amp. I i have y cable from the helix G, going to R&L of my Mono amp.


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> i uploaded it again the pic


i see you have made some changes from the settings i gave you.

tweeters at 5k? do you have woofers that will play flat up to 5k? Does it sound better to you than the 2.5k i set up?

on the matrix...in the sub area...i set it up to mix left and right, its now separated left into G and right into H. Where did that come from?

Also with the current version of the software it is not needed to to activate all 4 panels in the matrix, at least on the HelixDSP...is it different on the C-DSP? I noticed you changed that too.


----------



## hykhleif

miniSQ said:


> i see you have made some changes from the settings i gave you.
> 
> tweeters at 5k? do you have woofers that will play flat up to 5k? Does it sound better to you than the 2.5k i set up?
> 
> on the matrix...in the sub area...i set it up to mix left and right, its now separated left into G and right into H. Where did that come from?
> 
> Also with the current version of the software it is not needed to to activate all 4 panels in the matrix, at least on the HelixDSP...is it different on the C-DSP? I noticed you changed that too.


according to hertz the woofers frequency is 40hz-7khz thats according to the link below

HERTZ by Elettromedia - Special Car Stereo

i thought since the woofers play those high frequencies why not raise it to 5 and have the tweeters only from 5K, maybe that is not good, ur opinions is appreciated on this

as for the matrix, I don't know I thought since I am using line input A+B then A and B should be activated in the software, is that wrong, I really would like to know

Minisq when I tried your settings I was like wow and that is when I was having the car parked and the engine on, then when I drove the car for some reason the whole sound changed a lot, since yesterday everything started to fall apart and could not get the same sound I got, and I started noticing the mids were boomy and bass lacked impact. Since yesterday and until today I am still trying to solve this. The problem I have is mainly when I drive, I feel the sound gets so weird compared to when I am parked and the engine is on only. 

I don't know why when I drive the sound really becomes weird. Knowing I have dynamat on the front doors.


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> according to hertz the woofers frequency is 40hz-7khz thats according to the link below
> 
> HERTZ by Elettromedia - Special Car Stereo
> 
> i thought since the woofers play those high frequencies why not raise it to 5 and have the tweeters only from 5K, maybe that is not good, ur opinions is appreciated on this
> 
> as for the matrix, I don't know I thought since I am using line input A+B then A and B should be activated in the software, is that wrong, I really would like to know
> 
> Minisq when I tried your settings I was like wow and that is when I was having the car parked and the engine on, then when I drove the car for some reason the whole sound changed a lot, since yesterday everything started to fall apart and could not get the same sound I got, and I started noticing the mids were boomy and bass lacked impact. Since yesterday and until today I am still trying to solve this. The problem I have is mainly when I drive, I feel the sound gets so weird compared to when I am parked and the engine is on only.
> 
> I don't know why when I drive the sound really becomes weird. Knowing I have dynamat on the front doors.


Regarding the XO point...what was the XO point of the passive set? I believe it is around 2k...i would doubt it is 5k. But that is one thing that is nice but he helix. Built 2 identical profiles and play around with the XO points until you find the right blend. Mids will get boomy and harsh sounding when the XO point is too high..i notice that the male voices sound hard or harsh when the mids are playing too high.

read the manual about the matrix...there is a grey block that talks about this no longer needing to be done since the 2.8 update.. Although it does not likely hurt anything.

Funny you say that your car sounds bad when driving...mine sounds better when i drive, but probably because i am turning it up louder. Do you have any kind of built in sound correction filters from the Jeep? American cars do that to compensate for road noise with their factory speakers. I usually defeat that whenever i can.


----------



## Hanatsu

No no no... don't ever lowpass such a large driver at 5kHz. I assure you that the spec sheet stating 7kHz is not telling the whole story. It might do that onaxis but we don't use them as a point source...

2,5kHz is a much better estimate with a steep slope, like 24dB/oct. I'd recommend even lower than that. A 6,5" should be crossed around 2kHz to assure that its crossed while having full power response. The tweeter might not like a 2kHz highpass though, a 3-way front won't have same issue. You can choose crossover points while the drivers are far into their omni directional range.


----------



## miniSQ

Hanatsu said:


> No no no... don't ever lowpass such a large driver at 5kHz. I assure you that the spec sheet stating 7kHz is not telling the whole story. It might do that onaxis but we don't use them as a point source...
> 
> 2,5kHz is a much better estimate with a steep slope, like 24dB/oct. I'd recommend even lower than that. A 6,5" should be crossed around 2kHz to assure that its crossed while having full power response. The tweeter might not like a 2kHz highpass though, a 3-way front won't have same issue. You can choose crossover points while the drivers are far into their omni directional range.


agreed, and i looked at his tweeter when i made his file, , and they sell it with a 2k XO point at 12db...

so i set this file up for him with tweeter at 2.5k 24db HP 
and the woofer as 75hz HP at 24db, and 2.5k low pass at 12db.


----------



## hykhleif

miniSQ said:


> agreed, and i looked at his tweeter when i made his file, , and they sell it with a 2k XO point at 12db...
> 
> so i set this file up for him with tweeter at 2.5k 24db HP
> and the woofer as 75hz HP at 24db, and 2.5k low pass at 12db.


yeah I liked your pre-set, I think what went wrong is the dam eq that I dialled in, and I did not know that fine eq is alike a para-metric eq and that it need special handling, i used the graphic eq and the fine eq for some same fee points which I guess messed everything up

What I will use again minisq preset, and just play with the eq, without touching the fine eq for now.


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> yeah I liked your pre-set, I think what went wrong is the dam eq that I dialled in, and I did not know that fine eq is alike a para-metric eq and that it need special handling, i used the graphic eq and the fine eq for some same fee points which I guess messed everything up
> 
> What I will use again minisq preset, and just play with the eq, without touching the fine eq for now.


how did you EQ?


----------



## hykhleif

I started messing with the graphic eq and with the fine eq at the same time for the same frequencies.

I usually like to reduce the 1Khz by -2 and the 100z by -2

and then in the sub I like to raise the 50 and 63 hz by +2

and in the tweeters I like to rise 6.3, 8, 10, 12 kHz by +1

so it seems I played also with fine eq, and that messed everything up


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> I started messing with the graphic eq and with the fine eq at the same time for the same frequencies.
> 
> I usually like to reduce the 1Khz by -2 and the 100z by -2
> 
> and then in the sub I like to raise the 50 and 63 hz by +2
> 
> and in the tweeters I like to rise 6.3, 8, 10, 12 kHz by +1
> 
> so it seems I played also with fine eq, and that messed everything up


were you using any type of measuring device? Or are you like Scott and you can "see" sound?


----------



## hykhleif

miniSQ said:


> were you using any type of measuring device? Or are you like Scott and you can "see" sound?


I did not yet dive in measurements

I have the pioneer mic, I think I might use it to learn things before I order the minidsp calibrated mic.

Now for me the software REW is like jibberish to me and I don't know even from where to start with measuring sound files. 

Maybe someone can help over Skype or something and guide me. Or use team viewer and help out 

can anyone volunteer help me guide through how to do the measurement via Skype or viber. Having high end equip with basic knowledge ( regular user ) can make u feel lost compared to all the knowledge u have guys.

So I need help in guiding me to finish this challenge, and I asked around and no one here has an RTA or has enough knowledge for measuring things


----------



## Hanatsu

RoomEQ is not very advanced. Simply click "measure" in the top left and you'll get a graph. Only bother with the "all spl" tab. You might have to setup the soundcard first in "preferences". 
It will take more than 1dB +/- dB to EQ your system. 20-20kHz should be tilted about 20dB downwards. FR usually differ 5-10dB or so in the midrange.

There's also a way to autoEQ via RoomEQ. I made a thread about it a year back. Check my started threads.

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## coolmind

Hello,
First off all look at my matrix setup and as you can see there is no need to fill all the boxes in the output configuration.Just one input channel or more if you have different inputs in the output line will work fine.








Also in the sub section there is a selection on the device configuration menu(opto route menu)you can choose the sum mono mode and the sub channels will go in mono mode, or you can choose both right and left channel in the output and you have the same result.
Also for the memory switching configuration .
What i did and worked it was:
1)Format the micro sd in fat32 but with default allocation size selected on the allocation size value.
2)With the dsp connected on the pc, load one configuration on the setup A of the pctool,right click on the save button and file name the first memory configuration 1.ac1 and do the same procedure for the second configuration file but with file name 2.ac2.
3)Disconnect the pc from the dsp and load the files from the pc to the sd card.
4)With the dsp on insert the microsd with the files in the dsp's microsd slot and wait until the led turn green.
5)Remove the microsd card and switch off the dsp.
6)Power it up and everything will be ok. You can switch between the two configuration files by pressing the button on the remote(red-green led).
I hope what i wrote ,will help you.


----------



## LiQuiDz

Hello!

I just installed the C-DSP

im trying to save setting into the c-dsp
in the manual its say I should save files as .af1/ac1
but the software only save them in .afp

am I missing something? is there a more recent manual?


----------



## Ryanu

LiQuiDz said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just installed the C-DSP
> 
> im trying to save setting into the c-dsp
> in the manual its say I should save files as .af1/ac1
> but the software only save them in .afp
> 
> am I missing something? is there a more recent manual?


To my understanding the extension af1/ac1 is when u save into external card..

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## LiQuiDz

Ryanu said:


> To my understanding the extension af1/ac1 is when u save into external card..


Correct, if I right click SAVE I can save the file as .af1
they are only needed for SDcard


Atleast for now its working with 1 preset, will have to play a bit more with that software. Cant wait to put it in my car, was only bench testing it


----------



## miniSQ

LiQuiDz said:


> Correct, if I right click SAVE I can save the file as .af1
> they are only needed for SDcard
> 
> 
> Atleast for now its working with 1 preset, will have to play a bit more with that software. Cant wait to put it in my car, was only bench testing it


when you "save to dsp" from within the program you are not worrying about any extentions. Thats only if you are saving to desktop or saving to a sd card.

Meaning you can save to desktop and then "load" that setting back to the software UI for tweaking. 

What is it you are trying to do? load what you see on the UI to the Helix? If so just click and hold "save to dsp" until you see the progress bar complete and you are done. You can then save that set up to your desktop for reference or JIC.


----------



## hykhleif

just out of curiosity how much would a mint mint condition helix c dsp that has not been used for more than 3 months worth it


----------



## AVIDEDTR

YUUUUUPPP ^^


----------



## hykhleif

from where can i buy an extra wire harness for the helix c dsp ( the plug and the wires )

there is no dealer in israel for helix


----------



## ErinH

sbaumbaugh said:


> i posted some info a while back from Julian Fischer.
> 
> he sent me a new driver for the software.
> 
> they also have an update coming out this month.
> 
> here is the link for the new driver for use with windows 8.
> 
> not sure what version of windows you are running but here it is...
> 
> go to Helix driver update folder...
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oj2w2bz2zolbkpw/sxwWAspDaA


is this link still active?

I'm considering getting a new laptop which has win8 and I need to make sure the helix dsp software will work on that.


----------



## sbaumbaugh

Should be,

If not let me know and I will fix it up this evening...


----------



## Ryanu

Im running my lappy with win8... no issue running the program. btw... i download the program from helix website.

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


----------



## Deathbud

where can I buy one at a decent price?


----------



## sbaumbaugh

bikinpunk said:


> is this link still active?
> 
> I'm considering getting a new laptop which has win8 and I need to make sure the helix dsp software will work on that.


My Win 8 laptop runs the software perfectly using the new driver update.

If you run Win 8 without it be careful as it may quit or freeze during operation, if playing with crossovers on the Tweeter be careful when you restart the software as your crossovers may have been set back to Default.

But like I said once I loaded the new driver I haven't had any issues at all...

As for the new updates, last I heard they were putting all their efforts into the New DSP and were supposed to have already launched the new software, that apparently hasn't happened yet... Guess time will tell...

Big Bummer!!


----------



## il-massi

Ciao, hello to everybody....,
I buyed the Urc2a for my Helix Dsp to control the master volume of my audio system, but i'd like to place, in the console near the Audi knob main volume, another one knob to control the Helix Dsp main volume into coin holder of my car.... so my plan is to install a new one 10k Ohm linear potentiometer (and let original in the Urc2a) , but i don't know which wire to disconnect.... i opened the remote and i see 5 wires arrives, 2 blacks, one white, one red and one green,(see the picture) so can you tell me how are the 3 wires to control the main volume of the dsp to disconnect and after to reconnect into the new one?
Thank you so much for your advice,
Massi


----------



## il-massi

No one has opened the remote control?


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Ryanu

il-massi said:


> No one has opened the remote control?
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk



I do not own one of these remotes. But, if I do own 1... I don't think I gonna rip it apart without any apparent reason.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

il-massi said:


> No one has opened the remote control?
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


There was a thread dedicated to building one of these remotes from scratch, before this one was available. If you find that thread you may find your answer.


----------



## il-massi

Thanks miniSQ, i read the thread, but i can't find the solution of my problem.... i wanna find the wires to disconnect into urc2a and let the original cable connect to Dsp....


----------



## miniSQ

sbaumbaugh said:


> i posted some info a while back from Julian Fischer.
> 
> he sent me a new driver for the software.
> 
> they also have an update coming out this month.
> 
> here is the link for the new driver for use with windows 8.
> 
> not sure what version of windows you are running but here it is...
> 
> go to Helix driver update folder...
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oj2w2bz2zolbkpw/sxwWAspDaA


I just checked the website and there seems to be a new version posted?

PC-Tool software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH

It is saying that 2.80 will no longer be updated and 2.93 is posted.

never mind...looks like its not the update


----------



## charliekwin

Man, every time I get a notification about this thread I get all excited thinking that AF has _finally_ released their 3.0 update. Disappointed once again!


----------



## goodstuff

So no android control yet. I also questioned my units serial number which is 00000000.


----------



## narvarr

Anyone seen this yet?









Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## goodstuff

narvarr said:


> Anyone seen this yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


No. Where did you see this?


----------



## narvarr

goodstuff said:


> No. Where did you see this?


It's on Helix's Facebook page. They have been posting teaser info about every 2 weeks.

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Yes, there will be a Lot of exciting things from this piece ! Version 3.0, so far, is also quite nice.


----------



## ErinH

I have one on order through my local shop. Looking forward to the 10 channels.


----------



## charliekwin

6spdcoupe said:


> Yes, there will be a Lot of exciting things from this piece ! Version 3.0, so far, is also quite nice.


You have any insight on whether or not 3.0 will work with the original P-DSP? (Please say yes...)




ErinH said:


> I have one on order through my local shop. Looking forward to the 10 channels.


It has .25dB EQ adjustments, too!


----------



## miniSQ

ErinH said:


> I have one on order through my local shop. Looking forward to the 10 channels.


Do you have any pictures of the new remote?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

miniSQ said:


> Do you have any pictures of the new remote?


Yes, it is quite nice too !


----------



## miniSQ

6spdcoupe said:


> Yes, it is quite nice too !


thats just mean!!:laugh::laugh:


----------



## ErinH

charliekwin said:


> You have any insight on whether or not 3.0 will work with the original P-DSP? (Please say yes...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has .25dB EQ adjustments, too!


among other things. 6v pre-outs is pretty sweet. I'm curious if they'll add phase alignment on outputs other than the subwoofer only this time around as well. could see it being very useful for midbass (not necessarily midrange/tweeter).

looking forward to seeing what else they do with the updated software. but the big selling point to me was the extra channels.


----------



## crea_78

I have the "older version" on order and wondering if version 3.0 will work? Be nice to have the updated model but don't need 10 channels and I am fine with the 4V out


----------



## themad

crea_78 said:


> I have the "older version" on order and wondering if version 3.0 will work? Be nice to have the updated model but don't need 10 channels and I am fine with the 4V out


Yeah, same here.
I suppose it will work. And I hope they implement phase alignment on outputs as well.


----------



## bradknob

6spdcoupe said:


> Yes, it is quite nice too !


Will the new remote work with the other models, or is it specific to the new unit?


----------



## il-massi

Nice job and nice implement especially the 6v out.... i connected the iPod to my Helix Dsp and the volume is too low.... so i think to buy a Rockford Fosgate RFBLD balanced line driver.... what do you think guy about it? can be solve my problem of the volume?
Thanks.


----------



## goodstuff

Anyone use a usb dongle with this?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

no, and I WOULD highly suggest not to. Laptop/usb done deal


----------



## goodstuff

Laptop is big and clunky. Looking at buying a tablet. Would be nice to not have to connect wires when tuning.


----------



## miniSQ

goodstuff said:


> Laptop is big and clunky. Looking at buying a tablet. Would be nice to not have to connect wires when tuning.


i agree...i bought a 15" used laptop...and i wish it was a 8" or 10" tablet.

Wireless would be great.


----------



## bradknob

I bought a bluetooth dongle to use with my Asus transformer. Tablet/laptop... Was a no go. Tablet would detect the dongle but wouldn't connect. I connected a few other items to the tablet just fine, just couldn't read the dsp.


----------



## cdgatti

Hello, just installed and tuned the Helix DSP. Sounds pretty good. I tried the time alignment method mentioned elsewhere on DIYM about playing 2 drivers out of phase and setting at the null point (the microphone set up method). It was hard to tell for me if I was getting it right, but the end result and the approximate delays seemed correct? Anyway I am wondering if anyone is using the optical input and experiencing turn on pops?


----------



## BlackHHR

My turn on pop was user error. I wired the Helix to switched 12 volts instead of constant 12 volts . The turn off noises where just one of the weird things it was doing . All of it was my fault as to a simple over sight on my part. 
It is golden now .


----------



## cdgatti

I don't have power wiring concerns like that, my issue is a pop when the airport express optical sends a signal for the first time upon booting.


----------



## Tsmith

Yes I have been using the Helix DSP with optical input for a while now and you will experience a little pop. It is when it locks on the digital signal. I have been trying to get around the pop with no success. I will let you know if I figure out a work around.


----------



## cdgatti

What is your set up? What are you using for input and do you use the URC remote?


----------



## cdgatti

BlackHHR said:


> My turn on pop was user error. I wired the Helix to switched 12 volts instead of constant 12 volts . The turn off noises where just one of the weird things it was doing . All of it was my fault as to a simple over sight on my part.
> It is golden now .


So you have eliminated pops with an optical input? What is your input set up? Optical source and do you use the urc remote?


----------



## Tsmith

I am using the new Alpine W857HD with digital out. I used the Alpine W910 before that with digital out. Yes I am using the URC remote for volume control.


----------



## cdgatti

Tsmith are you using the mode switch on the helix remote to go between optical and analog OR for different DSP settings?


----------



## Tsmith

No not anymore. Only use the volume control


----------



## ErinH

well, there's a new update but it's not an update for those of us with the helix dsp. 
PC-Tool software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


I was hoping with the release of the new one, they'd go ahead and kick out an update. I am really looking forward to the 0.5dB increments.


----------



## Tsmith

Yeah me too Erin. I guess it will come out when the new DSP Pro is released, but who knows.


----------



## miniSQ

ErinH said:


> well, there's a new update but it's not an update for those of us with the helix dsp.
> PC-Tool software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> 
> I was hoping with the release of the new one, they'd go ahead and kick out an update. I am really looking forward to the 0.5dB increments.


Wasn't that released last month? Speciific to the Helix Match?


----------



## ErinH

it may have been. I may just be out of the loop. My baaaaad. Geeeeeeze.


----------



## cdgatti

Been experiencing an odd problem and wondering if anyone has seen it too. I will assign a certain input to an output, store it in the DSP and save the file to the computer. Then next time I hook up my PC and connect to the DSP it changed input/output configurator. In my case for example, I link the input "rear L full" to the output "rear L full" and all other inputs in the center section set to "not used". Then i reconnect and I might have "rear L full" and "front R full" connected to my "rear L full" output. What gives?


----------



## Hanatsu

cdgatti said:


> Been experiencing an odd problem and wondering if anyone has seen it too. I will assign a certain input to an output, store it in the DSP and save the file to the computer. Then next time I hook up my PC and connect to the DSP it changed input/output configurator. In my case for example, I link the input "rear L full" to the output "rear L full" and all other inputs in the center section set to "not used". Then i reconnect and I might have "rear L full" and "front R full" connected to my "rear L full" output. What gives?


Strange. Ain't supposed to happen if the DSP and computer syncronize properly. Never occured to me...


----------



## narvarr

cdgatti said:


> Been experiencing an odd problem and wondering if anyone has seen it too. I will assign a certain input to an output, store it in the DSP and save the file to the computer. Then next time I hook up my PC and connect to the DSP it changed input/output configurator. In my case for example, I link the input "rear L full" to the output "rear L full" and all other inputs in the center section set to "not used". Then i reconnect and I might have "rear L full" and "front R full" connected to my "rear L full" output. What gives?


I've had that kind of issue with my left tweeter changing slope/filter type. I'll have it set for LR/24 and it will change to Butterworth/12 sometimes. Not sure what causes that to happen at this point. 

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

narvarr said:


> I've had that kind of issue with my left tweeter changing slope/filter type. I'll have it set for LR/24 and it will change to Butterworth/12 sometimes. Not sure what causes that to happen at this point.
> 
> Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


I experienced this a couple times - on our way home from finals it happened while getting gas.
I reported this ^^^ BUG to helix a year ago and nothing materialized, nor could they replicate it.

I haven't experienced this since dropping the tune back in the car.

I simply leave the laptop in the car and reload the preset and save to dsp a few times

.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

I just remembered - I did a reset and started from scratch and it's been fine since.


----------



## ErinH

ditto. I had the issue a couple times. I made sure to click the "send" button (or whatever it is that actually loads and saves the settings to the dsp). I haven't had the issue in a long time. I don't know if I was doing something wrong or what.


----------



## truckguy

Any more news on the DSP Pro, the new controller or software update coming out? I'm in the market to get my first dsp and I've chosen Helix. I'm hoping when the new one comes out the regular DSP will have a price drop or it'll be easy for me to pick up a used one when you guys upgrade. What is the price on the pro version?

I'd like know more about the new controller and if the new controller/software upgrade will work on the old one.

I'm currently running 2 way active on a Pioneer 80PRS. Hoping to tinker around on the Helix for a while and then move up to a 3 way setup.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

DSP is a solid piece...out right now.

DSP Pro will be out in a few weeks, most veterans wont touch it until its proven stable.


----------



## subterFUSE

sub'd


----------



## miniSQ

Is there a chart that diagrams suggested phase shift for for a given XO slope?

Meaning i have all my speakers wired with correct polarity, but knowing that some passive crossovers reverse the polarity based on slope, should i be be adjusting the phase settings of my DSP based on slope?

ie...my tweeters might be crossed at 4200hz at 12db and my mids LP the same. Is there a standard phase correction to make here?


----------



## Hanatsu

Butterworth 2nd order is 180deg out of phase, when polarity is reversed the filter will have a gain of +3dB at xover point. Use L-R instead, it sums flat.


----------



## miniSQ

Hanatsu said:


> Butterworth 2nd order is 180deg out of phase, when polarity is reversed the filter will have a gain of +3dB at xover point. Use L-R instead, it sums flat.


come again?


----------



## sqnut

L-R = Linkwitz Riley slopes sum flat at the xover point as opposed to Butterworth which sum +3db. I would suggest trying a 4th order or 24db L-R slopes.


----------



## miniSQ

sqnut said:


> L-R = Linkwitz Riley slopes sum flat at the xover point as opposed to Butterworth which sum +3db. I would suggest trying a 4th order or 24db L-R slopes.


gotcha, i read it as Left/Right...hence my confusion. Thanks for clearing that up.

I am using 12db LR...so you are sugggesting that i increase both to 24db and leave the phase alone.

At least to see how it sounds?

I am not set on my final tweeter yet..so i am just getting perepared for tuning.


----------



## Hanatsu

Yeah 24dB LR (acoustic) is the best configuration imo.


----------



## sqnut

miniSQ said:


> gotcha, i read it as Left/Right...hence my confusion. Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> I am using 12db LR...so you are sugggesting that i increase both to 24db and leave the phase alone.
> 
> At least to see how it sounds?
> 
> I am not set on my final tweeter yet..so i am just getting perepared for tuning.


Yes try 24 db slopes. If you're thinking about phase in a car (which you don't need to) then getting the timing right from all drivers and running 24 db slopes will get you in a good enough place to be for phase. 

I prefer steep slopes in the car, due to the effects of reflections in a car. I like to keep a narrow range where both drivers are playing audibly. I think its easier to blend the drivers seamlessly in a car using steep slopes. A smaller area that you have to eq over. Shallow slopes work in proper rooms though where reflections are less of an issue.


----------



## Krieger88

Anyone know what rta mics work best with this dsp? I don't feel like throwing down 3 hundy for the offical helix mic..


----------



## themad

Helix DSP Pro and software version 3.00 to be released soon as per their Facebook post:



> "Yes, the new version 3.0 will only be launched for the HELIX DSP PRO within its release. The other products will be implemented step by step until end of this year


I thought they would release version 3.00 for every product at once. But end of the year is not that far anyway...


----------



## truckguy

What is the best device to use to tune the Helix dsp? Laptop, tablet. I bought a dsp and planned to use a microsd to make adjustments but that is going to take forever. What should I get? I don't want a top of the line laptop either. Just something simple for tuning in my vehicle.


----------



## subterFUSE

truckguy said:


> What is the best device to use to tune the Helix dsp? Laptop, tablet. I bought a dsp and planned to use a microsd to make adjustments but that is going to take forever. What should I get? I don't want a top of the line laptop either. Just something simple for tuning in my vehicle.


I just purchased an Asus Transformer Book a couple of months ago. It's an 11 inch laptop/tablet that runs Windows 8. It's absolutely perfect for tuning my car because of the small size.


----------



## ErinH

themad said:


> Helix DSP Pro and software version 3.00 to be released soon as per their Facebook post:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they would release version 3.00 for every product at once. But end of the year is not that far anyway...


bummer. the Pro dsp is cutting it too close for me right now. I really don't want to change gear before Finals (though, really, it should be a simple swap and the settings *should* be able to load up on the new one fine). It would be nice to have the smaller increments of level/EQ adjustment as I've got a couple spots that could use 0.5dB adjustment instead of 1dB.


----------



## subterFUSE

ErinH said:


> bummer. the Pro dsp is cutting it too close for me right now. I really don't want to change gear before Finals (though, really, it should be a simple swap and the settings *should* be able to load up on the new one fine). It would be nice to have the smaller increments of level/EQ adjustment as I've got a couple spots that could use 0.5dB adjustment instead of 1dB.


It's supposed to be in by early November.


----------



## ErinH

looks like I'm good. cause that's well after Finals.


----------



## bradknob

subterFUSE said:


> I just purchased an Asus Transformer Book a couple of months ago. It's an 11 inch laptop/tablet that runs Windows 8. It's absolutely perfect for tuning my car because of the small size.


I'm using the exact same thing. Only thing that would make it more perfect is to be able to control the DSP via Bluetooth. Have you tried this by any chance?


----------



## greydmv

Hey Guys, 

Im new to the Helix and very much a novice to car audio. However I have a few basic questions before I get started on integrating my new Helix into my car stereo.

1) Should I pull signal pre or post Bose Amp?
2) I have an Alpine PDX-V9 that I would like to bridge the 4 channels for the front stage woofers, (I understand the output connections Channel 1 + and Channel 2 -), my question is how would I connect the RCAs from the Helix to the Amp? 

Any other helpful information for a novice would be helpful as well.

Background info
G37 Sedan running 3 way active
PHD AF 1.C Tweeter
HAT L3SE Mid
PHD FB 6.5 Comp Woofer
12w3 Sealed box Sub
Alpine PDX-V9 Sub/Woofer
Alpine PDX-F4 Tweets/Mid
Helix DSP 

Thanks


----------



## charliekwin

themad said:


> Helix DSP Pro and software version 3.00 to be released soon as per their Facebook post:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they would release version 3.00 for every product at once. But end of the year is not that far anyway...


Ugggghhh, that's not what I wanted to hear. Frankly, I'm pessimistic about ever seeing a major software update for the original DSPs. It wouldn't be the first time AF's pulled the plug on stuff like this. Hope I'm wrong, though.


----------



## themad

charliekwin said:


> Ugggghhh, that's not what I wanted to hear. Frankly, I'm pessimistic about ever seeing a major software update for the original DSPs. It wouldn't be the first time AF's pulled the plug on stuff like this. Hope I'm wrong, though.


Yeah, me neither.
Shouldn't be too difficult to implement the newest software improvements to the older DSPs. Or should it?


----------



## charliekwin

themad said:


> Yeah, me neither.
> Shouldn't be too difficult to implement the newest software improvements to the older DSPs. Or should it?


I'm just a web developer, so this kind of software is outside of my wheelhouse, but assuming the new DSP is using similar hardware, a lot of the code could probably be ported or re-used.

If I were to guess, there's probably (at least) two major hurdles: 1) lack of processing power in the older units, and 2) limited developer time that's better spent working on the new stuff instead of wringing out the capabilities of the older stuff. #2, in particular, is why I'm not holding my breath on 3.0 for the P-DSP.


----------



## diy.phil

what processor/chip is in the older ones? somebody please look up the datasheet or programming guide/book to see if the processor/chip actually supports the small-dB-step that you guys are looking for...


----------



## truckguy

subterFUSE said:


> I just purchased an Asus Transformer Book a couple of months ago. It's an 11 inch laptop/tablet that runs Windows 8. It's absolutely perfect for tuning my car because of the small size.


Do you RTA with it at the same time? I see there is only one USB. This is exactly what I'm looking for minus the one USB. Sorry if this is a dumb question.


----------



## subterFUSE

truckguy said:


> Do you RTA with it at the same time? I see there is only one USB. This is exactly what I'm looking for minus the one USB. Sorry if this is a dumb question.


No, I use two laptops when I am tuning. It's just easier that way.

My Asus is for controlling the DSP.

Then I have a MacBook Pro running REW for my measurements.


----------



## NHgranite

Krieger88 said:


> Anyone know what rta mics work best with this dsp? I don't feel like throwing down 3 hundy for the offical helix mic..


I'm also looking for input to this question. 

Thanks


----------



## bradknob

truckguy said:


> Do you RTA with it at the same time? I see there is only one USB. This is exactly what I'm looking for minus the one USB. Sorry if this is a dumb question.



theres a mini usb on the side of the tablet part, you can prob use that with an adapter



NHgranite said:


> I'm also looking for input to this question.
> 
> Thanks


ive been using the umm-6 with it. In the DSP RTA screen, it recognizes the umm-6 but as far as I know theres nowhere to upload the calibration file for it. Im not sure if or how much it affects it so ive been using REW.


----------



## Hanatsu

The calibration file won't matter when L/R balancing. Without any cal file you can expect a rising response above 5kHz from most mics. I use a Scarlett 2i2 preamp together with a ECM8000 mic and a stationary computer. Works fine, but I see no reason to use the Helix RTA. Arta or REW are more powerful and use Tone burst/MLS instead of noise+RTA which include phase/time data.


----------



## Bronson863

I got a 2013 F-150 with factory 8inch headunit in dash. Im running 8 10 Nep pro v2 Sundown audios and 8 Mclearn tweeters. Which unit do you suggest for me?


----------



## bbfoto

themad said:


> Yeah, me neither.
> Shouldn't be too difficult to implement the newest software improvements to the older DSPs. Or should it?


I would not count on the new version 3.0 software that is released with the new DSP PRO working on the older units. The DSP PRO is a completely different chip & architecture (64-bit vs. 32-bit, and Fixed-point as opposed to Floating-Point calculations, etc.).




Bronson863 said:


> I got a 2013 F-150 with factory 8inch headunit in dash. Im running 8 10 Nep pro v2 Sundown audios and 8 Mclearn tweeters. Which unit do you suggest for me?


 Bronson, I don't believe that there are any processors available that would really be advantageous to your setup, though I could be wrong.

For the most part, the members of this forum's goals are to reproduce accurate studio-quality music, that provides a realistic, individual instrument and vocal placement (sound stage) from far Left to Right, out in front of the listener, while the listener is sitting in the vehicle's driver seat (or both front seats). AFAIK, all of the DSP/processors that are currently available for car audio are manufactured and developed with that goal in mind.

Typically, we will use a simple 2-way or 3-way front speaker setup (1 of each tweeter, midrange, and midbass speaker) for each left & right side (total of 6 independent channels), in addition to a subwoofer setup consisting of 1 to 4 subwoofers (the remaining 2 channels of nearly every available 8-Channel processor/DSP). With these types of setups, we are able to reach concert-level loudness inside the vehicle, but also with accurate and realistic studio-quality sound, as it was recorded and as the music artist intended it to be heard.

Your goal seems to be massive, ear-damaging SPL levels for listening outside of your F-150, as in a portable outdoor concert PA speaker system. Please wear earplugs or you will not be enjoying your favorite music for much longer.  Take it from a former rock drummer, I've lost a good bit of my hearing from playing live shows & gigs.  To get more & better information, you might want to start a new thread with your question in the SPL section of this forum. Good luck and don't lose your hearing...it blows!


----------



## themad

bbfoto said:


> I would not count on the new version 3.0 software that is released with the new DSP PRO working on the older units. The DSP PRO is a completely different chip & architecture (64-bit vs. 32-bit, and Fixed-point as opposed to Floating-Point calculations, etc.).


Actually Audiotec-Fischer posted on their FB page version 3.0 should hit older DSP's as well.



> Yes, the new version 3.0 will only be launched for the HELIX DSP PRO within its release. The other products will be implemented step by step until end of this year.
> Don't worry, even the HELIX DSP has a great hardware with state-of-art components and a huge feature set. And for sure there will be a big update comming soon when we will add the device into the new software.


Some things will be obviously be left behind, such as Bluetooth, AUX in via the RCA inputs and the HEC modules.

Whatever they bring to the Helix DSP is a welcome addition.


----------



## bbfoto

Yeah. I'm not saying that they will never release a version 3.0 that will work with the older units. I'm saying that the new version 3.0 that they initially release WITH THE NEW DSP PRO will probably NOT work with the older units out of the gate.

Only when, as they stated, "The other products will be implemented step by step until end of this year. And for sure there will be a big update comming soon when we will add the device (the original Helix DSP) into the new software."


----------



## themad

You are completely right about that.

I hope they implement smaller steps for phase adjustments on every channel and free choice of frequency for the EQ.
IMO, that would be a big update!


----------



## miniSQ

for anyone without fB:

John Kiser Is this available yet?
September 22 at 10:32am · Like

Mekano Lakour Sa c une bête
See Translation
September 22 at 10:59am · Like

Christian H. Aus B Was ist bitte genau mit Bluetooth streamen gemeint bzw wie funktioniert es mit dem DSP?
See Translation
September 22 at 11:36am · Like

Alexander Hochwimmer dann gibts coaxial SPDIF auch nur als Zusatz Board? mit Zusatz kosten....
See Translation
September 22 at 1:55pm · Like

Tibor Rudolf Optische out für MX4???
See Translation
September 22 at 3:29pm · Like · 1

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Der Coaxialeingang gehört zu den serienmäßigen verbauten Eingängen und kann anstatt des optischen Eingangs genutzt werden. Die HEC Module ermöglichen es zudem einen zweiten optischen Eingang nachzurüsten, so dass sowohl ein Coaxialeingang als auch ein optischer Eingang genutzt werden kann.
October 2 at 2:36am · Edited · Like

Christian H. Aus B Und meine Frage? Wie funktioniert das genau mit dem Bluetooth? Genauso wie mit anderen Bluetooth Varianten im Auto?
See Translation
September 23 at 2:18am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Das HEC Bluetooth Modul kann frei über die Software gesteuert und konfiguriert werden. Das Modul selbst meldet sich am Sender mit einem Medienprofil an, so dass es automatisch für die Wiedergabe von Audiodaten genutzt wird, jedoch nicht für Telefonie. Sofern ihr Sender Multi-Profile fähig ist, können Sie sich sich gleichzeitig an Ihrer Freisprechanlage und an dem HEC Bluetooth Audio Modul anmelden.
September 23 at 3:38am · Like

Christian H. Aus B Aha, sehr interessant. Theoretisch brauch ich ja dann kein Radio mehr, sondern kann meine Musik übers Smartphone oder Tablet usw. Abspielen?!
See Translation
September 23 at 3:45am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Genau, Bluetooth kann standardmäßig als Hauptquelle genutzt werden und so konfiguriert werden, dass sich die Signalquelle automatisch beim einschalten mit dem Gerät verbindet.
September 23 at 6:06am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer The HEC modules will be available in November
September 23 at 6:07am · Like

Christian H. Aus B Das klingt ja alles super, der DSP wird mit Sicherheit in meinem neuen Fahrzeug ein Plätzchen finden 
Danke für die Infos und weiter so, ihr macht das klasse.
See Translation
September 23 at 6:11am · Like

John Kiser When is the DSP Pro available in the USA?
September 23 at 6:41am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer The DSP PRO should be available in within the next weeks (2-3 weeks) in the USA
September 23 at 10:56am · Edited · Like

John Kiser How many presets? Will there be a volume control?
September 23 at 10:43am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer The DSP has 2 internal presets and there will be an optional display remote control coming out at end of this year which can store another 20 sound setups. In between the actual available volume control can be used.
September 23 at 10:58am · Like · 2

Jackie Wong Have aux in??
September 23 at 8:58pm · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Yes, the RCA input channel 7 and 8 can be used as AUX in with an adjustable input sensitivity between 250 - 500 mV. We will also offer an seperate HEC Module with an AUX input for the case you need all RCA or HIghlevel inputs.
September 25 at 2:57am · Like · 1

Marcelo Madeira The newer version of the DSP PC-Tool (version 3.00) will be launched with the DSP PRO?
September 27 at 4:43pm · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Yes, the new version 3.0 will only be launched for the HELIX DSP PRO within its release. The other products will be implemented step by step until end of this year.
September 29 at 2:19am · Like · 1

Alexander Hochwimmer Könnt ihr schon ein Datum nennen wann der HELIX DSP PRO erhältlich ist?
See Translation
October 1 at 4:48am · Like

Shiv Naimpally I already have the Helix DSP - very nice unit. Other than Bluetooth and a few extra ins and outs, are there any other advantages?
October 1 at 8:43pm · Like

James Randy Taylor So we dealers should have the dsp pro in 2 to 3 weeks? Or Rockford Corp. Will have them in 2 to 3 weeks and then to us?
October 1 at 11:16pm · Edited · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer The HELIX DSP PRO has a completely new design hardware with even more high-end AD and DA converters, a brand new 64-bit DSP which allows to have a sampling rate of 96 kHz and awesome measurements. Due to the higher processing power we were also able to add alot of new software features to it. Nevertheless several of the new features of the DSP PC-Tool V3 will be added to the HELIX DSP at a later date. For questions regarding the exact availability in your country please ask your dealer/distributor.
October 2 at 2:35am · Like

Chad Walton Rrrrrr, just got the helix dsp....
October 2 at 5:05am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Don't worry, even the HELIX DSP has a great hardware with state-of-art components and a huge feature set. And for sure there will be a big update comming soon when we will add the device into the new software. The HELIX DSP PRO is not a replacement for the HELIX DSP. It's just that new components are coming out frequently same as for computers/smartphones.
October 2 at 6:10am · Like · 1

Mike Kerrutt Wann kommt der DSP pro jetzt genau hier in Deutschland und was wird er uvp kosten?
See Translation
October 5 at 3:10pm · Like

John Kiser When will the HEC modules be available? At same time as the DSP Pro? Or will there be a delay?
October 5 at 8:11pm · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Lieferzeit und UVP wird von unserem Vertriebspartner in den nächsten Tagen bekanntgegeben.
October 6 at 4:53am · Like

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer All HEC modules will be available at end of November.
October 6 at 4:54am · Like

Hans U Koschnitzki Gibt es klangliche Unterschiede zum c dsp?
See Translation
October 9 at 11:26am · Like


----------



## bbfoto

^Thanks for that FB info.


----------



## bradknob

Any one ever have issues with the helix remote out not having enough voltage to turn on an amp? 

Im getting about 1v from the remote out.


----------



## narvarr

bradknob said:


> Any one ever have issues with the helix remote out not having enough voltage to turn on an amp?
> 
> Im getting about 1v from the remote out.


Check your remote voltage going into the Helix. It may be low as well.

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## bradknob

I have, its over 12v. I even ran that exact wire straight to the amp and it powered it right up. I'll have to wait til tomorrow to see if its stilt under warranty. If not, I may need to see if a relay would work.


----------



## miniSQ

3.0 not for HelixDSP

https://www.facebook.com/8382150482...1/10153279381179829/?type=1&notif_t=notify_me


----------



## charliekwin

miniSQ said:


> 3.0 not for HelixDSP
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/8382150482...1/10153279381179829/?type=1&notif_t=notify_me


Looks like it was taken down.

If it was confirmation that 3.0 won't be for the P-DSP or DSP, I'm disappointed but not surprised. I just tried the demo and there's definitely a couple features that would be nice to have. The changes to time alignment alone (you can group channels and delay the group, finer phase adjustments, and you can hold down the arrow key instead of pressing repeatedly) are worth the upgrade.


----------



## miniSQ

charliekwin said:


> Looks like it was taken down.
> 
> If it was confirmation that 3.0 won't be for the P-DSP or DSP, I'm disappointed but not surprised. I just tried the demo and there's definitely a couple features that would be nice to have. The changes to time alignment alone (you can group channels and delay the group, finer phase adjustments, and you can hold down the arrow key instead of pressing repeatedly) are worth the upgrade.


I got a copy I think...not sure if it finished dowloading or not.

It said 3.0 would be made available for other models in the coming months. So in helix months that should mean late 2015


----------



## miniSQ

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH

Link is still up...just the Facebook page is not


----------



## themad

New features are very welcome.
Fully configurable bands on the parametric EQ now. You can use one band for 4000hz and the next one for 4050 for example. Easier to use the output from REW's AutoEQ directly.

Only problem is waiting for Helix months to pass by...


----------



## charliekwin

miniSQ said:


> I got a copy I think...not sure if it finished dowloading or not.
> 
> It said 3.0 would be made available for other models in the coming months. So in helix months that should mean late 2015





themad said:


> New features are very welcome.
> Fully configurable bands on the parametric EQ now. You can use one band for 4000hz and the next one for 4050 for example. Easier to use the output from REW's AutoEQ directly.



Ahh, didn't realize it was just the link; yeah, it's available on the website and still has a demo mode. The new parametric EQ is super cool, but I suspect that's a feature that only the Pro will have.

I'll expect 3.0 to be available for the older DSPs shortly after the Android app comes out :laugh:


----------



## miniSQ

I ran into a problem this afternoon trying to connect my laptop to my HelixDSP.

I got the message saying no processor could be found, would you like to connect in demo mode"?

I have not ever had this happen, and nothing that i am aware of has changed. I connected fine yesterday. So i re-installed the software after looking thru the manual. Same message.

So i wonder if the cable got messed up somehow? I think i remember reading that it is not a standard micro USB cable? Can anyone confirm if this is true or not?

Any other suggestions? I did confirm that the USB port on the computer is fine.


----------



## themad

Sorry to hear about that.

However, I can confirm the cable is a standard micro USB cable. I have used the cable from my UMIK-1 mic as well as a microUSB cable from an external hard drive. (You know... I just had to change the settings before going back home from work...:laugh

So, any standard microUSB cable should work. 



miniSQ said:


> I ran into a problem this afternoon trying to connect my laptop to my HelixDSP.
> 
> I got the message saying no processor could be found, would you like to connect in demo mode"?
> 
> I have not ever had this happen, and nothing that i am aware of has changed. I connected fine yesterday. So i re-installed the software after looking thru the manual. Same message.
> 
> So i wonder if the cable got messed up somehow? I think i remember reading that it is not a standard micro USB cable? Can anyone confirm if this is true or not?
> 
> Any other suggestions? I did confirm that the USB port on the computer is fine.


----------



## BlackHHR

I have an extra cable that I have been using to charge my android with from a Helix . Let me know if you need something.



miniSQ said:


> I ran into a problem this afternoon trying to connect my laptop to my HelixDSP.
> 
> I got the message saying no processor could be found, would you like to connect in demo mode"?
> 
> I have not ever had this happen, and nothing that i am aware of has changed. I connected fine yesterday. So i re-installed the software after looking thru the manual. Same message.
> 
> So i wonder if the cable got messed up somehow? I think i remember reading that it is not a standard micro USB cable? Can anyone confirm if this is true or not?
> 
> Any other suggestions? I did confirm that the USB port on the computer is fine.


----------



## miniSQ

BlackHHR said:


> I have an extra cable that I have been using to charge my android with from a Helix . Let me know if you need something.


funny i have an extra android cable...i will try that tomorrow and see if it works.

Update: replaced the cable with one i had laying around and back in biz. Must have pinched the existing cable somehow.


----------



## miniSQ

I have all the pieces finally in my system and want to do some tuning this weekend. I wish i lived in an area where i could have someone come over and listen to my car and do this with me...but I may be the only car audiophile in Vermont.

So i have 2 questions for users:

1. What type of XO filter characteristics are you choosing and why? And maybe what slope? I am currently using Linkwitz 24db for everything, but reading the manual i am going to try switching that up and would love some suggestions.

2. Setting gains...where do you have your level controls set? I have mine at 0db for mids and subs, and -3db for tweeters. With the gains on my JL amp set to minimum for tweeter, and about 20% open for midrange, and maybe 30% open for subs. This allows me to play my HU at about 14 out of 35 for normal listening and 25 out of 35 for LOUD listening. 

I think i am good in this set up...but would love to hear if i should be dialing my Helix output levels back and cranking my amp gains up a little?

Thanks for your help...and if anyone is in Vermont this weekend..


----------



## subterFUSE

miniSQ said:


> 1. What type of XO filter characteristics are you choosing and why? And maybe what slope? I am currently using Linkwitz 24db for everything, but reading the manual i am going to try switching that up and would love some suggestions.


There is no single correct answer, but I tend to use Linkwitz 24 dB slopes for a couple of reasons:

They strike a good balance between a steep slope for protection of speakers, and smoothness of blending the various drivers together Linkwitz 24 also aligns in-phase, and generally sums flat at the X-over point.




> 2. Setting gains...where do you have your level controls set? I have mine at 0db for mids and subs, and -3db for tweeters. With the gains on my JL amp set to minimum for tweeter, and about 20% open for midrange, and maybe 30% open for subs. This allows me to play my HU at about 14 out of 35 for normal listening and 25 out of 35 for LOUD listening.


Again, there is no correct answer to this.
Personally, I prefer a technical approach using an oscilloscope and test signals to verify gains through the system. Starting with the source unit, and moving down the signal chain, I verify the maximum levels that avoid clipping the signal.

For source units, I use 0dB test signals.
For amps, I use attenuated signals of -5dB to -10dB overlap.


Some people prefer to do this by ear, however.
I'm a technical guy.


----------



## miniSQ

subterFUSE said:


> Again, there is no correct answer to this.


i know there is no one perfect answer...i just wanted to hear some discusion on the 2 topics.


----------



## Hanatsu

The filter characteristics are electrical. If you choose a LR24 filter, the REAL acoustic response might be anything but LR24. I always use the filter type and slope that end of with a result closest to a LR24 acoustic response. You can see it as a form of EQ.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## jriggs

Hanatsu said:


> The filter characteristics are electrical. If you choose a LR24 filter, the REAL acoustic response might be anything but LR24. I always use the filter type and slope that end of with a result closest to a LR24 acoustic response. You can see it as a form of EQ.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


Can you explain this in more detail. Maybe give a specific example. I really want to fully understand this. Thanks.


----------



## Hanatsu

I'll make a proper post when I'm at a computer later 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

jriggs said:


> Can you explain this in more detail. Maybe give a specific example. I really want to fully understand this. Thanks.


All right. Here's a rundown on crossovers. There seem to be a large misconception regarding this so I try to be as thorough as possible. The Helix DSP have access to several different crossover types. These are:

*[*] Butterworth (BW)

[*] Bessel

[*] Tschebyschev

[*] Linkwitz-Riley (LR)

[*] (Self-defined)*

The difference between all these filters are how the far ends on the passband of the signal look, i.e the shape of the transition between the the passband and the stopband (the rolloff of the filter). 

_Linkwitz-Riley got a Q-value of 0,5 - Bessel got 0,577 - Tschebyschev got ~0,95 - Butterworth 0,707_ and the self defined filter got adjustable Q so you can get something in-between all of the "standard" filter types. 

Linkwitz-Riley got the smoothest transition of all these filter types and will sum flat in both phase and magnitude at the crossover point, it also has superior transient response. A LR filter can only exist in even order types, i.e LR12 (12dB/oct) and LR24 (24dB/oct) and so on. Tschebyschev is the "opposite", it got a rather sharp transition between passband and stopband. The transient response is worse than all the other filter types as it got a rather high Q. Butterworth is something in-between, it's the filter that's most commonly is used in a wide range of audio applications. It won't sum flat around the xover, you will either get a 3dB boost or a complete null if the speakers are wired out of phase. 

This how the filters look with the same slope applied. The one with the peak is the Tschebyschev-filter and the smoothest is the LR-filter. 



*So what's the difference between electrical and acoustic crossovers?*

Well, the thing is that a loudspeaker isn't a perfect transducer with a ruler flat power response over the entire reproduction range. Neither have we placed the speaker in a "perfect" environment. The main idea here is that the transfer function of the car and that of the speaker will stack with the crossover settings you have chosen in the DSP. 

Let's take an example... You got a sealed box which basically is a ~12dB/oct highpass filter on the low end that's dictated by the T/S parameters of the driver. Let's assume that this driver is playing on an infinite baffle in an anechoic room. Now place a microphone in front of the driver and measure the response, it will most likely display a result very close to the one you would have gotten in a simulation program like WinISD, i.e a 12dB/oct below the -f3 point.

OK. Now let's connect a BW2 (12db/oct) highpass filter in series with the speaker and set it at around the -f3 point. The speaker's inherited rolloff will now stack with the crossover filter we placed in series and produce a 24dB/oct filter (which would be the result if you were to measure the driver again). Once you understand this, it's not a far step to imagine what the transfer function of the car does to the crossovers. The conclusion to this is that the electrical settings (the one you set in the DSP) will only remain true if:

1. You listening in an anechoic space

2. The loudspeaker is perfect, with a ruler flat FR (rather, power response)

Since neither of the above conditions are met, we are left with the conclusion that both the loudspeaker's and the environments will "stack" with the crossover settings... This is why we must differentiate electrical (the ones you set in your HU/amp/DSP) and acoustic crossovers (the actual crossover slopes, points and types that will be acoustically reproduced).

Since a picture says more than a thousand words, here's a simulation:





As seen by the above sim, I applied a 12db/oct filter and got a 24dB/oct filter in 'reality'. Note that these graphs are very "behaved", there's no telling how the transfer function of the car/speakers will interact with the electrical settings. In my previous build I had a [email protected]/oct electrical crossover applied, in reality the acoustic crossover point was [email protected]/oct!

Measuring is knowing, setting crossovers without the feedback of proper measurements is a shot in the dark imo.


----------



## Babs

Here's a silly question.. 
Anyone ever try running the software from a linux build? 
Possibly using something like Wine or CrossOver, etc.? 
Or possibly from OS X using some Win build tool?

Laptop I have is sketchy at best. I suppose easy enough to pick up a rather "inexpensive" Win tablet


----------



## charliekwin

Babs said:


> Here's a silly question..
> Anyone ever try running the software from a linux build?
> Possibly using something like Wine or CrossOver, etc.?
> Or possibly from OS X using some Win build tool?
> 
> Laptop I have is sketchy at best. I suppose easy enough to pick up a rather "inexpensive" Win tablet


Tried to install 2.x on a Mac Pro at my office with Wine a couple years ago; didn't work.


----------



## bbfoto

Hanatsu, that is an excellent Crossover tutorial! A lot of us don't understand the importance of combining the natural acoustic roll-off and response of a loudspeaker (within the vehicle) with the electrical crossover. This makes it much easier to understand. Thanks again...appreciate your time in doing this!


----------



## Hanatsu

bbfoto said:


> Hanatsu, that is an excellent Crossover tutorial! A lot of us don't understand the importance of combining the natural acoustic roll-off and response of a loudspeaker (within the vehicle) with the electrical crossover. This makes it much easier to understand. Thanks again...appreciate your time in doing this!


Np! Using crossovers to shape the response is a quite important step to do before EQing. I have experienced systems that was impossible to setup without shaping the response in this manner.


----------



## subterFUSE

bbfoto said:


> Hanatsu, that is an excellent Crossover tutorial! A lot of us don't understand the importance of combining the natural acoustic roll-off and response of a loudspeaker (within the vehicle) with the electrical crossover. This makes it much easier to understand. Thanks again...appreciate your time in doing this!


Agreed! I have learned a tremendous amount about audio, crossovers, EQ, measurements, and more from Hanatsu. If I'm ever in Sweden I owe you a few drinks.


----------



## Hanatsu

subterFUSE said:


> Agreed! I have learned a tremendous amount about audio, crossovers, EQ, measurements, and more from Hanatsu. If I'm ever in Sweden I owe you a few drinks.


:beerchug:


----------



## Babs

You guys make great aircraft and crossover tutorials. And I miss pre-GM Saab's also.


----------



## thechrisl

Because it appears to be best in class (which unfortunately seems to mean it sucks the least), I am thinking about getting a Helix DSP to replace my second sketchy DSP-88R. It costs about twice as much and is harder to source. Crutchfield carries it but is currently out of stock. For the Helix and Remote there is only one 2 star review on Crutchfield.

Helix DSP -- Buzzing noise in tweeters.
URC-2A remote -- poor documentation and doesn't stay plugged in.

Has anyone experienced these issues? A rock solid master volume is a requirement for me. Obviously the DSP needs to work as advertised too...


----------



## Tsmith

I have been using the Helix DSP for a while now and have not experience any problems. I am using the URC-2A remote for volume control. It is a little plain and cheesy cosmetically, it works like it is suppose to. As for noise, this processor is super quiet with no noise problems. Just my experience


----------



## miniSQ

thechrisl said:


> Because it appears to be best in class (which unfortunately seems to mean it sucks the least), I am thinking about getting a Helix DSP to replace my second sketchy DSP-88R. It costs about twice as much and is harder to source. Crutchfield carries it but is currently out of stock. For the Helix and Remote there is only one 2 star review on Crutchfield.
> 
> Helix DSP -- Buzzing noise in tweeters.
> URC-2A remote -- poor documentation and doesn't stay plugged in.
> 
> Has anyone experienced these issues? A rock solid master volume is a requirement for me. Obviously the DSP needs to work as advertised too...


read thru the 34 pages here...the helixDSP is as rock solid is it gets.


----------



## charliekwin

thechrisl said:


> Helix DSP -- Buzzing noise in tweeters.


I had this problem, but it was apparently limited to early units and had no problems getting a replacement.


----------



## thechrisl

Thanks guys, that what I hoped to see. Any suggestion on a US retailer? There is one Helix dealer near me but I haven't contacted them yet -- they may just be installers only.

There are also a couple units on eBay but non-returnable and surely not by an authorized seller.


----------



## miniSQ

thechrisl said:


> Thanks guys, that what I hoped to see. Any suggestion on a US retailer? There is one Helix dealer near me but I haven't contacted them yet -- they may just be installers only.
> 
> There are also a couple units on eBay but non-returnable and surely not by an authorized seller.


There a couple for sale in the classifieds here from some of the best stand up guys on the forum. I would not hesitate for a second to buy one of them. i bought my rom Syracuse Customs..they are the closed authorized seller to me.


----------



## BlackHHR

What up minisq? Yes there are quite of few guys in the classifieds that have upgraded to the pro and selling the dsp at a savings. At the level of owning a helix there is not a big risk buying from one of these sound q guys.


----------



## thechrisl

Sorry if this was covered in the thread but what is the maximum time delay available? I'm thinking rear fill w/ L-R. 15-20ms would be ideal I think.

Also, I saw some people were having trouble with the optical input and popping on start-up. Is this still going on? I plan to use this about 90% of the time with a toslink-ed carputer. I hate that digital noise some home systems put out when choking on an optical signal. I can hear it in my head...


----------



## thechrisl

Bump for these last couple questions...


----------



## miniSQ

thechrisl said:


> Bump for these last couple questions...


15.6 msec is the max delay. I cant speak to the optical pop.


----------



## Hanatsu

thechrisl said:


> Sorry if this was covered in the thread but what is the maximum time delay available? I'm thinking rear fill w/ L-R. 15-20ms would be ideal I think.
> 
> Also, I saw some people were having trouble with the optical input and popping on start-up. Is this still going on? I plan to use this about 90% of the time with a toslink-ed carputer. I hate that digital noise some home systems put out when choking on an optical signal. I can hear it in my head...


15,6ms ( edit, didn't see MiniSQ's reply lol ^)

You can cascade delay as well. I use two outputs on my P99, the first channel as the "ordinary" output, then the other delayed. I then delay that channel even more in the Helix to get 20ms+.


----------



## bradknob

I've seen a few people asking about the remotes...

I have a lead to some brand new remotes for the helix DSP if anyone is interested, let me know... From an authorized dealer.


----------



## miniSQ

bradknob said:


> I've seen a few people asking about the remotes...
> 
> I have a lead to some brand new remotes for the helix DSP if anyone is interested, let me know... From an authorized dealer.


How much$?


----------



## bradknob

miniSQ said:


> How much$?



$50 shipped


----------



## Babs

Ok guys.. May be covered ad nausium, but...

How's the standard DSP tool work for you on a budget windows tablet?

The old dell laptop I've attempted to save I believe has some issues that would be more expensive to replace the thing than repair a 3+ year old beat up laptop.

Considering some dedicated Windows "device" for solely car-tuning... Controlling the Helix DSP and running my Dayton UMM mic into Room EQ Wizard.


----------



## bradknob

Babs said:


> Ok guys.. May be covered ad nausium, but...
> 
> How's the standard DSP tool work for you on a budget windows tablet?
> 
> The old dell laptop I've attempted to save I believe has some issues that would be more expensive to replace the thing than repair a 3+ year old beat up laptop.
> 
> Considering some dedicated Windows "device" for solely car-tuning... Controlling the Helix DSP and running my Dayton UMM mic into Room EQ Wizard.



I have a dell laptop and an Asus transformer that I use with the Dayton usb mic. The only problem is the lack of USB ports on the Asus. I tried a usb to micro USB adapter to plug the DSP into the Asus, but won't recognize it. That leaves me with 1 USB port and switching back and forth is kind of a PITA.

I like To have REW and DSP software running simultaneously while I'm in my truck so I may try a USB splitter or something to see if that will work. If you're the measure then go inside and fix DSP settings type, you shouldn't have any issues.


----------



## thechrisl

Hanatsu said:


> 15,6ms ( edit, didn't see MiniSQ's reply lol ^)
> 
> You can cascade delay as well. I use two outputs on my P99, the first channel as the "ordinary" output, then the other delayed. I then delay that channel even more in the Helix to get 20ms+.


By this you mean if your head unit has a delay you can add the Helix delay to that, right?

For some reason I took this to mean you can take an output from the Helix and run it back through one of the inputs, but that doesn't make sense... does it?

Long story short I am getting one of these but I don't think I'll have the capability to generate L-R and rear fill delay. I'm looking to do that without going overboard with cost and complexity. The Helix costs a lot as it is.


----------



## Babs

bradknob said:


> I have a dell laptop and an Asus transformer that I use with the Dayton usb mic. The only problem is the lack of USB ports on the Asus. I tried a usb to micro USB adapter to plug the DSP into the Asus, but won't recognize it. That leaves me with 1 USB port and switching back and forth is kind of a PITA.
> 
> I like To have REW and DSP software running simultaneously while I'm in my truck so I may try a USB splitter or something to see if that will work. If you're the measure then go inside and fix DSP settings type, you shouldn't have any issues.


Yeah that appears to be the challenge.. USB ports.
Gonna have to get geeky with this laptop and get it solid again if I can.


----------



## subterFUSE

bradknob said:


> I have a dell laptop and an Asus transformer that I use with the Dayton usb mic. The only problem is the lack of USB ports on the Asus. I tried a usb to micro USB adapter to plug the DSP into the Asus, but won't recognize it. That leaves me with 1 USB port and switching back and forth is kind of a PITA.
> 
> I like To have REW and DSP software running simultaneously while I'm in my truck so I may try a USB splitter or something to see if that will work. If you're the measure then go inside and fix DSP settings type, you shouldn't have any issues.


I have the same Asus Transformer. It's really great, but I have been running 2 laptops while tuning my car. :laugh:

MacBook Pro 17" running REW via Behringer firewire soundcard

Asus Transformer 11" running the DSP software


I keep the 2 computers on speaker stands outside the car. Then I use an Apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse inside the car. This allows me to sit in the car and take the REW measurements without needing to move or open the door. I can see the 17" screen easily enough from inside.

Then when I need to make adjustments I can hop out and grab the small laptop and make the changes outside or inside the car as desired.


----------



## miniSQ

Babs said:


> Ok guys.. May be covered ad nausium, but...
> 
> How's the standard DSP tool work for you on a budget windows tablet?
> 
> The old dell laptop I've attempted to save I believe has some issues that would be more expensive to replace the thing than repair a 3+ year old beat up laptop.
> 
> Considering some dedicated Windows "device" for solely car-tuning... Controlling the Helix DSP and running my Dayton UMM mic into Room EQ Wizard.


8" tablet is WAY to small...i think you need to be at 11" or 12" minimum to enjoy tablet or small laptop life with the Helix software.


----------



## bradknob

subterFUSE said:


> I have the same Asus Transformer. It's really great, but I have been running 2 laptops while tuning my car. :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> MacBook Pro 17" running REW via Behringer firewire soundcard
> 
> 
> 
> Asus Transformer 11" running the DSP software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I keep the 2 computers on speaker stands outside the car. Then I use an Apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse inside the car. This allows me to sit in the car and take the REW measurements without needing to move or open the door. I can see the 17" screen easily enough from inside.
> 
> 
> 
> Then when I need to make adjustments I can hop out and grab the small laptop and make the changes outside or inside the car as desired.




That's one helluva operation you got going on there. Lol. But u gotta do what u gotta do.



miniSQ said:


> 8" tablet is WAY to small...i think you need to be at 11" or 12" minimum to enjoy tablet or small laptop life with the Helix software.




I agree, since u cannot make the DSP software full screen, 11" would be absolute minimum for me.


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> I have the same Asus Transformer. It's really great, but I have been running 2 laptops while tuning my car. :laugh:
> 
> MacBook Pro 17" running REW via Behringer firewire soundcard
> 
> Asus Transformer 11" running the DSP software
> 
> 
> I keep the 2 computers on speaker stands outside the car. Then I use an Apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse inside the car. This allows me to sit in the car and take the REW measurements without needing to move or open the door. I can see the 17" screen easily enough from inside.
> 
> Then when I need to make adjustments I can hop out and grab the small laptop and make the changes outside or inside the car as desired.


That is quite the setup.



miniSQ said:


> 8" tablet is WAY to small...i think you need to be at 11" or 12" minimum to enjoy tablet or small laptop life with the Helix software.





bradknob said:


> I agree, since u cannot make the DSP software full screen, 11" would be absolute minimum for me.


Yeah the software is a bit hamstrung by it's UI. Having not seen version 3 for the pro, I hope it's better. I certainly hope Helix considers partaking a little of other OS platforms.


----------



## Thumper26

So, just so I'm reading this right, the V3 will work on the DSP Pro, correct?

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## miniSQ

Thumper26 said:


> So, just so I'm reading this right, the V3 will work on the DSP Pro, correct?
> 
> PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


correct, for now it works on JUST the HelixDSP Pro.


----------



## narvarr

miniSQ said:


> 8" tablet is WAY to small...i think you need to be at 11" or 12" minimum to enjoy tablet or small laptop life with the Helix software.


12" is actually the perfect size.


----------



## Duckstu

Question.

The optional remote,.... what does it do? Is it necessary?

Thanks.


----------



## subterFUSE

Duckstu said:


> Question.
> 
> The optional remote,.... what does it do? Is it necessary?
> 
> Thanks.


It has 2 rotary dials and a button. They are programmable via the software, but the default functions are Master Volume, Subwoofer Volume and Source Selection.


----------



## Babs

Gives you volume control for the optical input which I'd say is it's most useful function.
And an overall master volume or sub volume depending on what you set that one up for in the tool.


----------



## Duckstu

Babs said:


> Gives you volume control for the optical input which I'd say is it's most useful function.
> And an overall master volume or sub volume depending on what you set that one up for in the tool.


Ahh, ok.

So master volume (usually not needed)

Sub volume,... for people with JL Audio subs.

And source selection.

That last one might be neat if I can find an Ipod interface that extracts digital, while still allowing the head unit to control the Ipod. 

I have a Wadia 170 at home that extracts digital,.. and many of the new mini DAC's do that,.. but I haven't found one yet that still allows the head unit to control the Ipod.

So I guess I'll fore-go it for now. Sweet that it's controls are programmable.


----------



## Babs

I'm considering exactly something like that Papasin's Mrs is doing.. Ipad out to HDMI (for full unattenuated digital out), then to an optical converter. 

I need to look that up what hardware she's using. I guess that's in the Smart Car thread. I imagine the fidelity that way should be awesome. Only one DA conversion.

I'd roll with something like that with the fat iPad screen itself for interface entirely.


----------



## Duckstu

Babs said:


> I'm considering exactly something like that Papasin's Mrs is doing.. Ipad out to HDMI (for full unattenuated digital out), then to an optical converter.
> 
> I need to look that up what hardware she's using. I guess that's in the Smart Car thread. I imagine the fidelity that way should be awesome. Only one DA conversion.
> 
> I'd roll with something like that with the fat iPad screen itself for interface entirely.



When I did it at home it was HUGE.

From Ipod D/A into pre-pro A/D,.. then D/A...

After it's just straight digital into the Pre-pro. Straight into the speakers,.. but with processing on the subs only.

The detail, ambience,.. airiness etc were all very much improved. Usually I'd plug the Ipod in and not care if it was on or not. With the new setup I actually found myself stuck on the couch for song after song in amazement. From just sound to enjoyment.

The D/A's in this Helix unit sound like they're much better than what's in the Ipod,... and totally bypassing the low-rent Japanese head-unit and they're notoriously horrid pre-amp sections may totally transform your system.


----------



## Babs

Yep.. Essentially turning the silly iPod into a high-end digital transport sending 1/0's to all that high-end DAC goodness. Just one time. It's only reasonable that it's going to be significantly better.

That's it doggonit.. I gotta get the items to go direct to my Helix optical, since my remote showed up for volume control. Darn it, I gotta run a toslink line now. !!!!


----------



## charliekwin

I have a Nexus 7 hooked up and switched from the USB DAC line out -> Helix line in to USB DAC optical -> Helix optical and have been really happy with the change. I'm using steering wheel controls to handle volume control at the tablet. Works great!


----------



## Duckstu

subterFUSE said:


> There is no single correct answer, but I tend to use Linkwitz 24 dB slopes for a couple of reasons:
> 
> They strike a good balance between a steep slope for protection of speakers, and smoothness of blending the various drivers together Linkwitz 24 also aligns in-phase, and generally sums flat at the X-over point.


I have a question that you may know the answer to.

"It would seem to me",....... that doing crossovers in the digital realm, that there shouldn't be any phase shift at all. It would be like you were simply adjusting the volume downwards digitally in the areas above or below your crossover points. 

I.E. I see it in my mind as the DSP really only doing two things. Time alignment (delay) and digitally adjusting the volume. Adjusting it overall,... adjusting it per channel (to match the various drivers if you didn't have your amp gains set quite perfectly),.. and adjusting volume per frequency (to achieve both EQ effects and crossover effects).

Is it not the case that doing EQ and crossover work in the digital realm is free of phase shift?
.


If it was free of that it would be perfect. You RTA each driver and choose a slope based on what's needed,... rather than some particular slope that happens to be phase free. A mid might continue to get louder as it goes above your desired 2,500 hz crossover point and so require a 20+ db per oct slope to achieve 18 db actual. Whereas a tweeter might fall off at 6-10 db all on it's own,... and only need another 8db or so to drop off at a similar rate to the mid below it. o 6 on the tweeter and 24 on the mid-bass driver and with the crossover points correctly set there would be no traditional EQ'ing necessary.

But if we still have phase-shift,... the crossovers end up being no different than using caps and coils,... just faster and easier
.
.


----------



## Hanatsu

Duckstu said:


> I have a question that you may know the answer to.
> 
> "It would seem to me",....... that doing crossovers in the digital realm, that there shouldn't be any phase shift at all. It would be like you were simply adjusting the volume downwards digitally in the areas above or below your crossover points.
> 
> I.E. I see it in my mind as the DSP really only doing two things. Time alignment (delay) and digitally adjusting the volume. Adjusting it overall,... adjusting it per channel (to match the various drivers if you didn't have your amp gains set quite perfectly),.. and adjusting volume per frequency (to achieve both EQ effects and crossover effects).
> 
> Is it not the case that doing EQ and crossover work in the digital realm is free of phase shift?
> .
> 
> 
> If it was free of that it would be perfect. You RTA each driver and choose a slope based on what's needed,... rather than some particular slope that happens to be phase free. A mid might continue to get louder as it goes above your desired 2,500 hz crossover point and so require a 20+ db per oct slope to achieve 18 db actual. Whereas a tweeter might fall off at 6-10 db all on it's own,... and only need another 8db or so to drop off at a similar rate to the mid below it. o 6 on the tweeter and 24 on the mid-bass driver and with the crossover points correctly set there would be no traditional EQ'ing necessary.
> 
> But if we still have phase-shift,... the crossovers end up being no different than using caps and coils,... just faster and easier
> .
> .


*Any crossovers "in the digital domain" which are of IIR-type got a phase shift as well. A 4th order L-R will lag and lead 180deg which means 360deg phase shift (not the same as 0 degrees, which is zero phase shift).

*Only FIR-based DSP's operating in linear-phase mode can create "zero phase shift" crossovers and EQ (independent magnitude and phase response). FIR-based DSP can and should perform minimum phase corrections instead though.

Linear phase is not very usable, in fact (IMHO) it's useless. Absolute phase is inaudible. Absolute phase does not matter. You require minimum phase shift as they correct the phase distortion along with the magnitude distortion (or FR deviation if you will). 

In simple terms, you want (mostly) the shift these filters introduce - it works (again... mostly) as a correction for a distorted phase response, phase shifts are not evil


----------



## Duckstu

Hanatsu said:


> *Any crossovers "in the digital domain" which are of IIR-type got a phase shift as well.
> 
> *Only FIR-based DSP's operating in linear-phase mode can create "zero phase shift"
> 
> In simple terms, you want (mostly) the shift these filters introduce - it works (again... mostly) as a correction for a distorted phase response, phase shifts are not evil



Wow,.. thanks.

I know that absolute phase is irrelevant,.. but when you get the 2 drivers on either side of a crossover point out of phase to each other,.. it gets weird. And the response gets erratic there. Sure link Riley 24 is back in phase (1 cycle out),.. but the different drivers have different actual responses,.. and ideally you'd be able to pick any crossover slope you liked to get them do do in real life what you drew out on paper.

Ideally you'd have a phase-free EQ with unlimited cut,... and simply use that instead of a "crossover" to adjust the responses of each driver.

I suppose you van do that here,... Setting the crossover slopes at 24,.. and then EQ'ing the areas after the crossover point if they are too steep or too shallow. 

Thanks again.


----------



## Hanatsu

Duckstu said:


> Wow,.. thanks.
> 
> I know that absolute phase is irrelevant,.. but when you get the 2 drivers on either side of a crossover point out of phase to each other,.. it gets weird. And the response gets erratic there. Sure link Riley 24 is back in phase (1 cycle out),.. but the different drivers have different actual responses,.. and ideally you'd be able to pick any crossover slope you liked to get them do do in real life what you drew out on paper.
> *
> Ideally you'd have a phase-free EQ with unlimited cut*,... and simply use that instead of a "crossover" to adjust the responses of each driver.
> 
> I suppose you van do that here,... Setting the crossover slopes at 24,.. and then EQ'ing the areas after the crossover point if they are too steep or too shallow.
> 
> Thanks again.


Why? (the bold part). A crossover is an EQ with "unlimited cut", basically. It will continue to drop the SPL till it hits the noise floor of the system.

Relative phase is audible, because it has a inevitable effect on the magnitude response (as in cancellations. _T/A is a form of phase shift vs frequency, not talking about that here_). If you want really good acoustic summing you simply EQ or set up a crossover filter till the acoustic response resembles the actual filter you trying to attain (L-R 4th order for example). That's why we differentiate between electrical and acoustic response, they are seldom one and the same. 

A 4th order LR filter sums flat both phase and magnitude. Don't understand what you're getting at really. If you're talking about phase cancellations that occur the acoustic domain - it's virtually impossible to compensate for combing caused by this. When we put drivers in a reflective environment we get issues not fixable with any types of processing.


----------



## Duckstu

Hanatsu said:


> Why? (the bold part). A crossover is an EQ with "unlimited cut", basically. It will continue to drop the SPL till it hits the noise floor of the system.
> 
> Relative phase is audible, because it has a inevitable effect on the magnitude response (as in cancellations. _T/A is a form of phase shift vs frequency, not talking about that here_). If you want really good acoustic summing you simply EQ or set up a crossover filter till the acoustic response resembles the actual filter you trying to attain (L-R 4th order for example). That's why we differentiate between electrical and acoustic response, they are seldom one and the same.
> 
> A 4th order LR filter sums flat both phase and magnitude. Don't understand what you're getting at really. If you're talking about phase cancellations that occur the acoustic domain - it's virtually impossible to compensate for combing caused by this. When we put drivers in a reflective environment we get issues not fixable with any types of processing.


I had figured (incorrectly perhaps),.. that when done in the digital domain,.. you could reduce the volume of any part of the frequency band purely by reducing the volume associated with that part of the original signal, just with 0's and 1's. 

Not sure if that made any sense,.. what I mean is,.. part of the 0's and 1's in the data stream is for the amplitude (volume). If the DSP can simply re-write the amplitude numbers associated with a certain frequency,... it can EQ with no phase change. 

But perhaps this is not at all how this function is performed in today's processors. I'm an old-school car stereo guy (build your own passives,.. and physically move speakers to time-align them),.. and I'm NOT a computer guy,..so I don't have a very limited understanding of the digital world. As an example,.. I have no idea what IIR and FIR refers to.


The other part of what I was referring to is the effective or acoustical crossover slope. As in,.. a tweeter might already fall off at 10 db per octave as the frequency drops below 2,500. While a 5.25" mid might might actually climb 1-2 db from 2,200 - 3,000. So to accomplish acoustically the same slope as your tweeter,.... you'd need a 12db steeper slope for the mid's low-pass than you run for the tweeter's high-pass. So perhaps 12db high-pass on the tweeter and 24db on the mid-bass.

Having to still use 24 on both to avoid phase issues,... the tweeter falls off much faster than the mid-bass does as they approach their cross-over center point. So Eq'ing needs to be performed on both sides of that x-over center to fix the associated issues. Mild perhaps,... but still necessary.

Ideally you'd be able to build a system in a DSP that has no phase issues and you could run any slope you wanted (15.32 db per octave for instance),.... and you could make the slopes mirror each-other in real terms. Then by moving the crossover points up and down a bit you could achieve a perfect response with no EQ'ing and nothing out of phase.

Perhaps I'm obsessing about something that is very minor in real terms?


----------



## Duckstu

Anyway,.. I have a DSP Pro en-route.

Should be here in a day or two.

Anxious to play with it. Should only take a few minutes to install as I already have another processor in the car. So the wires and interconnects are already in place.

Fun, fun, fun.
.


----------



## Duckstu

Wow, wow, WOW.

Thanks maddawg

Just replaced another DSP (which shall remain un-named),... and with just a quick and dirty setup (basic crossover points and channel assignments) it already flat-smokes my previous unit.

This weekend I'll have time to get into time-alignment, EQ'ing etc. I had the gains on the amps set pretty well to start with (as the previous unit had no user control of levels),.... and listening to a test sweep it sounds darn-near perfect. 

I'm blown away by the features, speed, etc of the setup. Pretty much anything I can imagine doing is just a mouse-click away from happening. And you hear the results in real time. Turn a channel on or off,... change a crossover point etc and it happens in a fraction of a second. So cool.


----------



## maddawg

No Problem, always love to help out when possible. That is a big difference in size, glad you are happy with it. Wait til you dial it in with time alignment, you will **** yourself.


----------



## quality_sound

Who sells the DSP Pro? Might give it a whirl even if I have no use whatsoever for 10 channels of output. lol
What's the pricing like? I can't find anything anywhere. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jcharger13

Crutchfield has it at $999 which is retail but if you check with a local dealer you can probably get it cheaper. Should be able to get 10%-15% off.


----------



## Jedclampet

Question regarding PP82DSP channels E n F on these channel's only my equalizer allows for every other frequency band of adjustment is this something that I could correct? My settings are as follows channel's A n B Tweeters, C n D Midrange, E n F Mid bass ( under seats ) and G n H sub. Other than the sub all drivers are in the front and my input is the front right and left out of the stock head unit. All channel's are set as full signal from front left or right output except G n H which are set as sub. Any thoughts?


----------



## pankrok

you can ask here
‰χος & Αυτοκ¯νητο - ΔραγκιÎτης Ανδρ­ας

it should be something like eur700 plus shipping. it is not listed yet as he waits for the shipment next week but can quote you for price


----------



## hykhleif

quick question

tomorrow i am replacing my helix c dsp with the helix pro

and i wanna try it on the spot so can i use the setup i have on the helix c dsp to work on the helix pro

i know after that i will need to re-eq it but just for the sake of using it after installation can i use the helix c dsp file and load to helix pro


----------



## miniSQ

hykhleif said:


> quick question
> 
> tomorrow i am replacing my helix c dsp with the helix pro
> 
> and i wanna try it on the spot so can i use the setup i have on the helix c dsp to work on the helix pro
> 
> i know after that i will need to re-eq it but just for the sake of using it after installation can i use the helix c dsp file and load to helix pro


i would not suggest using the same file, because the Helix Pro is running a different software program, but no reason you can't use the same settings.

Of course you could try this...import the current file with the new software in Demo mode and then modify it ever so slightly and save it as a different name. If that process goes smoothly you might be able to then load that file onto the DSP Pro. 

But if it were me i would probably write down all the settings and create a brand new file from scratch.


----------



## Tsmith

You will need to write down all your setting from your file. The new software version will not accept the old file. I tried to open my old file in the new software and did not work. You are going to enjoy the new DSP Pro


----------



## miniSQ

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but i will give it a shot.

Factory HU runs to my Helix DSP via speaker level input to the Helix.

From the HelixDSP i run RCA's to a pair of JL Audio amps that give me the option of setting the input switch to either Hi level or Lo level. 

Jl audio says that in almost every case when using an after market deck the setting should be on lo level.

So do i qualify for low level here without an after market deck, but an aftermarket DSP?

On low settings and using DMM i am almost pegged totally counter clockwise on the gain which kind of tweaks my OCD.

So the question is , do i lower the input on the Helix a little and dial it in that way, leaving it on lo? Or set it to High and have room to adjust?

Or does it not even matter and i shouldn't waste valuable bandwidth with this question?


----------



## BlackHHR

miniSQ said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but i will give it a shot.
> 
> Factory HU runs to my Helix DSP via speaker level input to the Helix.
> 
> From the HelixDSP i run RCA's to a pair of JL Audio amps that give me the option of setting the input switch to either Hi level or Lo level.
> 
> Jl audio says that in almost every case when using an after market deck the setting should be on lo level.
> 
> So do i qualify for low level here without an after market deck, but an aftermarket DSP?
> 
> On low settings and using DMM i am almost pegged totally counter clockwise on the gain which kind of tweaks my OCD.
> 
> So the question is , do i lower the input on the Helix a little and dial it in that way, leaving it on lo? Or set it to High and have room to adjust?
> 
> Or does it not even matter and i shouldn't waste valuable bandwidth with this question?


Factory HU --->>>> Helix = high level (speaker wire)
Helix ----->>>>> JL Audio amps = low level (rca) 
All of my amps are turned all the way down in the gain settings (counter clock wise). I am getting my gain from the processor . 
Is that what you are asking?


----------



## Jepalan

miniSQ said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but i will give it a shot.
> 
> Factory HU runs to my Helix DSP via speaker level input to the Helix.
> 
> From the HelixDSP i run RCA's to a pair of JL Audio amps that give me the option of setting the input switch to either Hi level or Lo level.
> 
> Jl audio says that in almost every case when using an after market deck the setting should be on lo level.
> 
> So do i qualify for low level here without an after market deck, but an aftermarket DSP?
> 
> On low settings and using DMM i am almost pegged totally counter clockwise on the gain which kind of tweaks my OCD.
> 
> So the question is , do i lower the input on the Helix a little and dial it in that way, leaving it on lo? Or set it to High and have room to adjust?
> 
> Or does it not even matter and i shouldn't waste valuable bandwidth with this question?


Helix puts out 4 VRMS. JL amp inputs are 4V turned all the way counter-clockwise (in LO input mode). This is a good thing, not a bad thing. It means your signal gain is early in the chain and well matched to the amp. This should give you optimal SNR.

Put the JLs on "Lo" input mode, turn their gains all the way down and don't look back. All is good.


----------



## BlackHHR

Thanks Jeplan, that is what I though he was asking. 
MiniSQ, it aint broke don't fix it. LOL


----------



## miniSQ

BlackHHR said:


> Factory HU --->>>> Helix = high level (speaker wire)
> Helix ----->>>>> JL Audio amps = low level (rca)
> All of my amps are turned all the way down in the gain settings (counter clock wise). I am getting my gain from the processor .
> Is that what you are asking?


I think hat is pretty much what i'm asking.

So you dial your amp gains all the way back and then adjust with the software on the processor? Meaning, if you adjust your signal with a DMM, you use the processor to get to the proper level, as opposed to the amp gain?

Thats pretty much what i would have to do when setting it on low. I just have never done it that way before.


----------



## miniSQ

Jepalan said:


> Helix puts out 4 VRMS. JL amp inputs are 4V turned all the way counter-clockwise. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. It means your signal gain is early in the chain and well matched to the amp. This should give you optimal SNR.
> 
> Put the JLs on "Lo" input mode, turn their gains all the way down and don't look back. All is good.


Cool...so if the Helix is set to 0db on the PC, i am outputting 4volts to the JL.

And there is no benefit to lowering the input on the Helix software?

I just get in these funks in the winter in vermont where i need to do "something" car audio related, and readjusting my settings is cheaper than buying new products


----------



## BlackHHR

miniSQ said:


> Cool...so if the Helix is set to 0db on the PC, i am outputting 4volts to the JL.
> 
> And there is no benefit to lowering the input on the Helix software?
> 
> I just get in these funks in the winter in vermont where i need to do "something" car audio related, and readjusting my settings is cheaper than buying new products


I understand. Cabin fever. 
You have a saved file ,no need to worry about loosing the tune. If you can bring the car indoors (garage) work with phasing . You never know, 180 out of phase on the tweeters and see what you have there. Also if you have the phasing tracks, in phase/out of phase you can tweak on time alignment . 
Tweak with staging that can take about 2 hours out of your day. And most of all it is free.


----------



## Duckstu

miniSQ said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but i will give it a shot.
> 
> Factory HU runs to my Helix DSP via speaker level input to the Helix.
> 
> From the HelixDSP i run RCA's to a pair of JL Audio amps that give me the option of setting the input switch to either Hi level or Lo level.
> 
> Jl audio says that in almost every case when using an after market deck the setting should be on lo level.
> 
> So do i qualify for low level here without an after market deck, but an aftermarket DSP?


The outputs of the Helix would definately qualify for the HIGH setting on the JL amps input switch (I myself use a 500/1 for my sub). The Helix outputs 6 volts,... but most car head units these days only have 2V pre-outs. Even the 2 most expensive Alpine NAV units are only 4v. And not even a good 4v,.. they're 10,000 ohm. (A great pre-out like the Eclipse CD7000 or CD7200 will have 8 volt pre-outs with only 55 ohm of impedance).

The JL Manual for a 500/1 says the low setting is for 0.2 - 2 volts,.. and the high setting is good for 0.8v - 8 volts. So you would set it to the "high" setting, then turn the gain knob 1/3 of the way up from full CCW,... and adjust from there as needed.

See the right half of page 4.
http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/500_1_MAN.pdf?1317780724



If you haven't already,.. you should do the input procedure,... where you turn your radio to 90% of max,.. then adjust the potentiometers until the clipping light goes on,.. and then back to the right until it just goes out. That may involve moving the pin jumpers in addition to adjusting the pots. (With 4 channels of speaker level in you'll probably want to play a tone or pink noise,.... set one or two channels,.. and then use an oscilloscope or DMM to get all of the input channels you plan to use to match those ones you set with the clipping light).


----------



## miniSQ

Duckstu said:


> The outputs of the Helix would definately qualify for the HIGH setting on the JL amps input switch (I myself use a 500/1 for my sub). The Helix outputs 6 volts,... but most car head units these days only have 2V pre-outs. Even the 2 most expensive Alpine NAV units are only 4v. And not even a good 4v,.. they're 10,000 ohm. (A great pre-out like the Eclipse CD7000 or CD7200 will have 8 volt pre-outs with only 55 ohm of impedance).
> 
> The JL Manual for a 500/1 says the low setting is for 0.2 - 2 volts,.. and the high setting is good for 0.8v - 8 volts. So you would set it to the "high" setting, then turn the gain knob 1/3 of the way up from full CCW,... and adjust from there as needed.
> 
> See the right half of page 4.
> http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/500_1_MAN.pdf?1317780724
> 
> 
> 
> If you haven't already,.. you should do the input procedure,... where you turn your radio to 90% of max,.. then adjust the potentiometers until the clipping light goes on,.. and then back to the right until it just goes out. That may involve moving the pin jumpers in addition to adjusting the pots. (With 4 channels of speaker level in you'll probably want to play a tone or pink noise,.... set one or two channels,.. and then use an oscilloscope or DMM to get all of the input channels you plan to use to match those ones you set with the clipping light).


I have read the JL manual several times, and i have read that section about the
hi and lo input switch. And i have done it both ways, hi and lo, and tuned the voltage using both DMM and my ears. 

But then i read something where JL is saying that almost all after market desck should be using the Low setting, and i like HRR equate low level to RCA and Hi level to speaker wire.

Hense my confusion.

As for your suggesting of doing the input procedure with potentiometer and blinking lights...are you referring to the amp or the DSP? I dont see this option available for either device. Although i used to do it that way with my Audio Control EQX


----------



## BlackHHR

Duckstu said:


> The outputs of the Helix would definately qualify for the HIGH setting on the JL amps input switch (I myself use a 500/1 for my sub). The Helix outputs 6 volts,... but most car head units these days only have 2V pre-outs. Even the 2 most expensive Alpine NAV units are only 4v. And not even a good 4v,.. they're 10,000 ohm. (A great pre-out like the Eclipse CD7000 or CD7200 will have 8 volt pre-outs with only 55 ohm of impedance).
> 
> The JL Manual for a 500/1 says the low setting is for 0.2 - 2 volts,.. and the high setting is good for 0.8v - 8 volts. So you would set it to the "high" setting, then turn the gain knob 1/3 of the way up from full CCW,... and adjust from there as needed.
> 
> See the right half of page 4.
> http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/500_1_MAN.pdf?1317780724
> 
> 
> 
> If you haven't already,.. you should do the input procedure,... where you turn your radio to 90% of max,.. then adjust the potentiometers until the clipping light goes on,.. and then back to the right until it just goes out. That may involve moving the pin jumpers in addition to adjusting the pots. (With 4 channels of speaker level in you'll probably want to play a tone or pink noise,.... set one or two channels,.. and then use an oscilloscope or DMM to get all of the input channels you plan to use to match those ones you set with the clipping light).


There is not pins and jumpers in the Helix DSP. Nor is there any clipping lights on the Helix DSP. 
The Helix has two lights, power and communication connected to a lap top. 
There is also not any potentiometers on the helix, gain adjustments are in the digital domain via the GUI in two locations if my memory serves me correctly. Per channel and in the x-over section..
As for as the HD750/1,s , switch is set on low accepting the rca`s from the C-DSP. I had to go look to verify this setting.


----------



## Duckstu

BlackHHR said:


> There is not pins and jumpers in the Helix DSP. Nor is there any clipping lights on the Helix DSP.
> The Helix has two lights, power and communication connected to a lap top.
> There is also not any potentiometers on the helix, gain adjustments are in the digital domain via the GUI in two locations if my memory serves me correctly. Per channel and in the x-over section..
> As for as the HD750/1,s , switch is set on low accepting the rca`s from the C-DSP. I had to go look to verify this setting.


*Whoops !*

I forgot that this was a DSP thread. I got turned onto it because of people in the thread were asking about the DS Pro (Which is what I have).

In that unit there are pots and jumpers to adjust both speaker level and RCA inputs,.. and a clipping light like Audio Control units have. (Interestingly today I was selling an Audio Control EQL and a pair of EQT's,.. both of which have this same feature).


----------



## Duckstu

miniSQ said:


> I have read the JL manual several times, and i have read that section about the
> hi and lo input switch. And i have done it both ways, hi and lo, and tuned the voltage using both DMM and my ears.
> 
> But then i read something where JL is saying that almost all after market desck should be using the Low setting, and i like HRR equate low level to RCA and Hi level to speaker wire.
> 
> Hense my confusion.


Yeah,.. JL is referring to pre-out sources only, and they chose to divide it up into a high and low range.

This gives their amps the flexibility to be fed by everything from aftermarket radios like Boss brand gear with 1.5v pre-outs,... all the way up to Eclipse units with 8 volt pre-outs.





miniSQ said:


> As for your suggesting of doing the input procedure with potentiometer and blinking lights...are you referring to the amp or the DSP? I dont see this option available for either device. Although i used to do it that way with my Audio Control EQX


I was refering to the DSP Pro,.. but this is a DSP thread. Oops.


----------



## miniSQ

Duckstu said:


> *Whoops !*
> 
> I forgot that this was a DSP thread. I got turned onto it because of people in the thread were asking about the DS Pro (Which is what I have).
> 
> In that unit there are pots and jumpers to adjust both speaker level and RCA inputs,.. and a clipping light like Audio Control units have. (Interestingly today I was selling an Audio Control EQL and a pair of EQT's,.. both of which have this same feature).


LOL...no worries. Technically i think there are blinking lights on the HelixDSP Gui that tell you when the signal is clipping ( or something to that effect ), so you aren't totally wrong.


----------



## miniSQ

Jepalan said:


> Helix puts out 4 VRMS. JL amp inputs are 4V turned all the way counter-clockwise (in LO input mode). This is a good thing, not a bad thing. It means your signal gain is early in the chain and well matched to the amp. This should give you optimal SNR.
> 
> Put the JLs on "Lo" input mode, turn their gains all the way down and don't look back. All is good.


upon further reading..i think the JL 500/1input is matched to 2vrms on the lo setting with the gains turned all the way down, not 4vrms.

I am thinking i should be setting it to high..and adjusting the input range accordingly. Or dial back the output of the Helix, but that seems counter intuitive too.

I guess i just have to follow the instructions here in the manual and not let my OCD get in the way:

Step 8: Increase the input sensitivity control until the desired voltage
(determined in Step 5) is delivered. If multiple subwoofer
amps are being used, set each one to the same exact voltage
and you have also level matched them. If excessive voltage
is read with the control at minimum (full counterclockwise),
switch the “Input Voltage” to “High” (if amplifier is equipped)
and re-adjust.


----------



## miniSQ

miniSQ said:


> upon further reading..i think the JL 500/1input is matched to 2vrms on the lo setting with the gains turned all the way down, not 4vrms.
> 
> I am thinking i should be setting it to high..and adjusting the input range accordingly. Or dial back the output of the Helix, but that seems counter intuitive too.
> 
> I guess i just have to follow the instructions here in the manual and not let my OCD get in the way:
> 
> Step 8: Increase the input sensitivity control until the desired voltage
> (determined in Step 5) is delivered. If multiple subwoofer
> amps are being used, set each one to the same exact voltage
> and you have also level matched them. If excessive voltage
> is read with the control at minimum (full counterclockwise),
> switch the “Input Voltage” to “High” (if amplifier is equipped)
> and re-adjust.


finally found a post where manville himself weighed in: 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...discussion/118700-jl-amp-high-low-switch.html


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Just got my Helix DSP up and running with my home DIY OB system, I am now in love with this thing. Incredible sound, zero noise floor, best GUI I've ever used and absolutely no drama. More here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-home-pro-audio/163833-active-dipole-build-round-3-a.html


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Quick update, pretty sure the Helix DSP is pumping out way more voltage than my Pioneer or Denon receivers can handle and clipping their preamp stages. I need to play with the output levels to bring it under control or just finish one of my Hypex builds...to be continued


----------



## Kevin K

you do have the DSP after the receiver correct?


----------



## ErinH

^ It sounds like he's feeding his Helix outputs in to his receiver's preamp inputs, I assume to take advantage of the AVR's amplifier? But, yea, I thought that was odd as well when I first read it.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Helix DSP is acting as the DAC/active xover and I'm feeding the receiver's preamp inputs to take advantage of the amp section (I'm in between dedicated amps at the moment).


----------



## ErinH

Architect7 said:


> Helix DSP is acting as the DAC/active xover and I'm feeding the receiver's preamp inputs to take advantage of the amp section (I'm in between dedicated amps at the moment).


yea, that's what I figured. I did something similar for a while at one point so I ain't knocking it. lol. I sought out an old AVR on CL with pre-amp inputs for that reason. Paid $100 for an old HK receiver that did about 90w/channel and it was perfect for those needs.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Yeah definitely not the ideal solution at the moment but I have receivers coming out of my ears right now lol. And the AVR-5700 has a beefier amp section than most entry level component amps. Pretty sure I pulled a muscle moving this thing room to room, it is a behemoth.

So I turned down the output level on the Helix DSP to -30 but still hearing the distortion/resonance in the left mid (it was both mids last night). So I need to switch speaker wires and do some other testing to figure out the true cause. The main downside of active home speakers, soooooo many different possible points of failure...and I'm exhausted after putting in a very full day at the office and fighting a sinus infection so I don't have 100% energy to focus on this at the moment. I wish there were two of me right now 

Edit: Just read that the input sensitivity for the EXT IN inputs is only 200mV...so that could be causing an issue...I really need an O-scope.


----------



## Kevin K

Architect7 said:


> Helix DSP is acting as the DAC/active xover and I'm feeding the receiver's preamp inputs to take advantage of the amp section (I'm in between dedicated amps at the moment).


Ah, understand.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I almost lugged my 95lb HT amp into this room for testing but my pre-geriatric back decided against it lol.


----------



## Babs

Curious. Are there no pre-pro's with the same level of DSP room correction built in?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I need an active 3-way crossover, not using it for room correction (yet).


----------



## miniSQ

Anyone running the new 3.0 software yet?


----------



## Babs

miniSQ said:


> Anyone running the new 3.0 software yet?



Yes please report. I'm about to fire mine up after redoing the amp install. I've got the beta loaded on the laptop and was hoping for great things. Anyone?


----------



## Kevin K

Yes. 3.10b actually, does fine, no issue so far in 6 days of using it. Having finer detail in adjustment is nice.


----------



## subterFUSE

Sweet! I didn't see 3.10b yet. The Germans listened to my feature request I emailed to them about disabling the release timer while on manual source selection. ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndm

miniSQ said:


> Anyone running the new 3.0 software yet?





Babs said:


> Yes please report. I'm about to fire mine up after redoing the amp install. I've got the beta loaded on the laptop and was hoping for great things. Anyone?


I have been running 3.10 almost since it was released. I am running smooth as can be.

My only problem I am now certain is due to my USB port. If I so much as move my lap top the usb port becomes disconnected. 

Otherwise the software is pretty [email protected] good.

I am totally impressed with these guys. They truly seem to care about their product and its product support.



EDIT____Bump for that controller!!


----------



## subterFUSE

Absolutely thrilled with Audiotec Fischer and their engineers. They are updating the software promptly and listening to the customers. The DSP is solid to begin with, and keeps getting better almost every 2 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## maddawg

I love it, nothing negative here. Best software on the market, in my opinion.


----------



## Babs

Got the beta working on mine. Appears to work well. Once I got over my learning curve a bit, as I'm a newb with it anyway. Cracking into the tuning manual now to learn up about the tool.


----------



## coolmind

I went from 2.80 to 3.10b and the deference in preamp stage and time alignment is huge.
The software is great and the adjustments are limitless now. 
Very good upgrade from Audiotech Fisher worth the waiting.


----------



## Kevin K

coolmind said:


> I went from 2.80 to 3.10b and the deference in preamp stage and time alignment is huge.
> The software is great and the adjustments are limitless now.
> Very good upgrade from Audiotech Fisher worth the waiting.


What was the difference in preamp stage?


----------



## Jazz80

Any one try the new software to C DSP? I didn’t see it on the list.:worried:


----------



## charliekwin

I gotta say I'm a little surprised they actually added support for the older processors; I didn't think it'd actually happen, so great work by their engineers.

Anyone know if it works with the original P-DSP? I sure hope so!


----------



## narvarr

Jazz80 said:


> Any one try the new software to C DSP? I didn&#146;t see it on the list.:worried:


I noticed the same thing and emailed them about it a couple days ago. Haven't heard back from them yet.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

My persinal CDSP was recently shipped to helix and is in Julian Fishers hands. So, I hope due to the massive tuning issues lve had, my hope is they will port the new firmware over to the cdsp.

When I know the update, Ill let you all know


----------



## Babs

Ran the new beta on the DSP briefly.. Appears to be ok so far with just some initial tuning, once I got over my ego and cracked their tuning manual a bit to realize you drag and drop inputs from the input list to assign them for output channels. 

Does appear much improved over the previous tool.. Enough for me to now want to kill my old laptop that's on its last leg and find a "budget" Win 8 device of some kind that runs the tool well. My mission... Locate a Win tablet that will run the tool AND Room EQ Wizard.


----------



## coolmind

Kevin K said:


> What was the difference in preamp stage?


It has more power than before,and i had to reduce the gain level of the amp because the signal was distorted.


----------



## piyush7243

Babs said:


> Ran the new beta on the DSP briefly.. Appears to be ok so far with just some initial tuning, once I got over my ego and cracked their tuning manual a bit to realize you drag and drop inputs from the input list to assign them for output channels.
> 
> Does appear much improved over the previous tool.. Enough for me to now want to kill my old laptop that's on its last leg and find a "budget" Win 8 device of some kind that runs the tool well. My mission... Locate a Win tablet that will run the tool AND Room EQ Wizard.


You can they dell venue pro 8 or Notion ink cain 10. Both can do all of the above


----------



## narvarr

Update: I got a return email from Audiotec-fischer today. The C-DSP will not be included in future updates.


----------



## NHgranite

Alright gang, I've joined the HelixDSP club.

I have some initial hurdles that I'm anxious to get past. Requesting input on the following:

- Current HU is a Pioneer 80PRS. Should I set it in Network or STD mode. Any additional configuration settings?

- I can get my notebook (MacBook Air running VMware Windows7 x64) to connect to the DSP for about :30 seconds before it says "failure to communicate". Currently using the factory supplied miniUSB cable. Suggestions/inputs?

- Just to confirm, this HelixDSP can or cannot be upgraded to the new 3.10b firmware?


Thanks!


----------



## miniSQ

NHgranite said:


> Alright gang, I've joined the HelixDSP club.
> 
> I have some initial hurdles that I'm anxious to get past. Requesting input on the following:
> 
> - Current HU is a Puoneer 80PRS. Should I set it in Network or STD mode. Any additional configuration settings?
> 
> - I can get my notebook (MacBook Air running VMware Windows7 x64) to connect to the DSP for about :30 seconds before it says "failure to communicate". Currently using the factory supplied miniUSB cable. Suggestions/inputs?
> 
> - Just to confirm, this HelixDSP can or cannot be upgraded to the new 3.10b firmware?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


the helix can be upgraded to 3.10b, but i think the upgrade is not compatible with Bootcamp, not sure if it is with VMware or not.

I am also a mac user, but decided to pick up a cheap asus laptop ($165) to use with the helix.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

boot camp user here. zero issues.


----------



## Babs

AVIDEDTR said:


> boot camp user here. zero issues.



Really? That's cool! Which version Windows you running?


----------



## Babs

So messing around with a Dayton UMM-6 mic last night in REW I decided to play with the updated Helix RTA.. There's serious potential there I think for using the auto-EQ capability. I didn't get much time with it but I imagine you can EQ groups such as L/R mids for example. 

I was able to do a quick and ugly auto-EQ on the mids which really dialed in the tonality, AND had quite an impact on the imaging and stage, to be expected. 

Can you also run the Helix RTA auto-EQ for individual drivers, such as left mid only as well?

Sorry if covered at length already. Been reading the Helix tuning manuals on it.

So if the Helix tool is Kosher for using my Dayton mic I think it'll be a faster learning curve than REW as I'm running out of time before the NC meet to tune it up.

I was using an iPhone/iPad app called Signal Generator for pink noise which appeared to work great via USB into the 149BT head unit.


----------



## nanohead

Babs said:


> So messing around with a Dayton UMM-6 mic last night in REW I decided to play with the updated Helix RTA.. There's serious potential there I think for using the auto-EQ capability. I didn't get much time with it but I imagine you can EQ groups such as L/R mids for example.
> 
> I was able to do a quick and ugly auto-EQ on the mids which really dialed in the tonality, AND had quite an impact on the imaging and stage, to be expected.
> 
> Can you also run the Helix RTA auto-EQ for individual drivers, such as left mid only as well?
> 
> Sorry if covered at length already. Been reading the Helix tuning manuals on it.
> 
> So if the Helix tool is Kosher for using my Dayton mic I think it'll be a faster learning curve than REW as I'm running out of time before the NC meet to tune it up.
> 
> I was using an iPhone/iPad app called Signal Generator for pink noise which appeared to work great via USB into the 149BT head unit.


You can use the UMM and RTA to do individual drivers. You just select the one driver before you open the RTA, then make sure you match the crossover boundaries with the RTA bands to be measured. Then, you'll be measuring only the frequencies you're allowing. When you auto EQ, it will do it for that driver only. 

I just did my pickup this way, it was pretty cool, even though the results sounded awful. I made a second pass with REW which seemed to have better results


----------



## miniSQ

I tried getting my HelixDSP to recognize the new software on my 8.1 asus, and launching the new software only boots to demo mode. It wont see my Helix.

Anyone else have this problem?


----------



## nanohead

You may want to try and see if it shows up in the device manager in windows. The USB driver model is much the same as windows 7, so it "should" work fine.

Also, I'm wondering if the port you're using is USB 2 or 3. Some of the USB 3 ports are flakier than heck. I know the USB 3 port on my thinkpad was bizarre with connecting to the Mosconi DSP until a couple of driver updates seemed to cure whatever was pissing it off.

Were you able to see of the driver installation was accomplished? Did you connect it in Win 8.1 desktop mode, or "modern UI" mode? Also, was it the first time you connected it to the 8.1 laptop? 

I can try to help here, I have a laptop with 8.1 on it if need be. There's also a problem with USB in general, where "stale" addresses will load up in the USB device table and things will start getting flaky in general.


----------



## miniSQ

nanohead said:


> You may want to try and see if it shows up in the device manager in windows. The USB driver model is much the same as windows 7, so it "should" work fine.
> 
> Also, I'm wondering if the port you're using is USB 2 or 3. Some of the USB 3 ports are flakier than heck. I know the USB 3 port on my thinkpad was bizarre with connecting to the Mosconi DSP until a couple of driver updates seemed to cure whatever was pissing it off.
> 
> Were you able to see of the driver installation was accomplished? Did you connect it in Win 8.1 desktop mode, or "modern UI" mode? Also, was it the first time you connected it to the 8.1 laptop?
> 
> I can try to help here, I have a laptop with 8.1 on it if need be. There's also a problem with USB in general, where "stale" addresses will load up in the USB device table and things will start getting flaky in general.


thanks for the reply..and i am a PC noob...so pardon any ignorance.

1.i will try and find device manager and see if it shows up. i am also going to install the new software on a windows 7 laptop tomorrow an see if it works.
2. I am guessing USB3 is the blue colored input? I belive i tried both...but will retry.
3. i was in desktop mode when i tried connecting. And yes it was the first time i tried. i noticed when i brought the laptop inside there were 2 windows...with a progress bar on them saying somethign about trying to load device? So maybe it was attempting to load? and i was not patient enough. 

I will go back out later this afternoon and retry with the win8 machine.


----------



## phil r

i am running windows 7 64bit, and had the same problem, i think from memory that helix haven't signed the driver........
so i disabled the driver signature enforcement in windows by pressing F8 when windows is booting up, then scroll down to disable driver signature enforcement and press enter....

hope this helps


----------



## nanohead

Yes, USB 3 is the blue usually. It could have been trying to find the device driver (the small software piece that makes the computer know what to do with the device). On my win7 machine, it simply installed itself.

Win8 can be a bit slower to install the drivers...

Here's a link to maybe help. How To Open Device Manager in Windows 8 & 8.1 [Easy]

The best thing to do is to open the device manager, and then connect the DSP to see if it shows the DSP as connecting, then as a device


----------



## miniSQ

phil r said:


> i am running windows 7 64bit, and had the same problem, i think from memory that helix haven't signed the driver........
> so i disabled the driver signature enforcement in windows by pressing F8 when windows is booting up, then scroll down to disable driver signature enforcement and press enter....
> 
> hope this helps





nanohead said:


> Yes, USB 3 is the blue usually. It could have been trying to find the device driver (the small software piece that makes the computer know what to do with the device). On my win7 machine, it simply installed itself.
> 
> Win8 can be a bit slower to install the drivers...
> 
> Here's a link to maybe help. How To Open Device Manager in Windows 8 & 8.1 [Easy]
> 
> The best thing to do is to open the device manager, and then connect the DSP to see if it shows the DSP as connecting, then as a device


Thanks guys...i will try and see what happens. I am also going to download the latest beta that came out a couple days ago and see if maybe that helps too.


----------



## miniSQ

miniSQ said:


> Thanks guys...i will try and see what happens. I am also going to download the latest beta that came out a couple days ago and see if maybe that helps too.


I installed the 11c beta and was sure to connect using usb2, and it connected, and went thru the firmware update and allowed me to load my settings. 

thanks!!


----------



## nanohead

Great to hear! Probably installed the driver correctly this time, then the connection worked. 

I have a win7 thinkpad, with Mosconi, Helix, (and the godawful Zapco) SW on it, REW, and a bunch of tone generators and tone files on it. Can't live without it! Also have a Dayton UMM6 that I use. Its a great setup.

And with all this fancy stuff, I still hate all my tunes


----------



## Babs

Well I'm sure covered ad nausium.. Finally decided to plug in the remote. Won't talk to the PC tool if the remote is plugged in. Quite odd. I did figure out you have to activate the remote in the file to make it work, easy enough, but won't connect if it's plugged in. ??


----------



## Mr Orange

NHgranite said:


> Alright gang, I've joined the HelixDSP club.
> 
> I have some initial hurdles that I'm anxious to get past. Requesting input on the following:
> 
> - Current HU is a Pioneer 80PRS. Should I set it in Network or STD mode. Any additional configuration settings?
> 
> - I can get my notebook (MacBook Air running VMware Windows7 x64) to connect to the DSP for about :30 seconds before it says "failure to communicate". Currently using the factory supplied miniUSB cable. Suggestions/inputs?
> 
> - Just to confirm, this HelixDSP can or cannot be upgraded to the new 3.10b firmware?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Are you having any clipping issues with you set up? The DSP has a max input of 4v and your pioneer is at 5v. Have you taken this into account when you set up the DSP?

I just got this email back from Helix about the inputs. 


Dear Mr. Haydel,

your concerns are justified as this is an critical issue.
If your source can deliver higher output voltage than the A/D converters can handle then digital clipping may occur if you crank up the volume of your head unit too far.
Digital clipping is way more dangerous for loudspeakers than analog clipping.
That’s the reason why we cannot recommend the combination of the DEX-P99 with the Helix DSP.

Regards,
Robin Krichel

Robin Krichel
Technical Director
AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
mail: [email protected]
web: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
USt-IdNr.: DE 125919505
Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer




Von: Dale Haydel [mailto:[email protected]] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Mai 2015 18:47
An: Audiotec Fischer Team
Betreff: A question from Dale Haydel (Audiotec Fischer GmbH) [Scanned by Avira Exchange Security]

Audiotec Fischer GmbH

A customer, Dale Haydel, has a question about: HELIX DSP - HP58209.
I'm considering getting a DSP but I'm concerned about the RCA input voltage. My head unit preamp out is rated at 5V (Pioneer DEX-99RS). Is this too high of an input voltage?
Thanks,
Dale
Here is the product link:

HELIX DSP



Regards, your Audiotec Fischer GmbH Team

Audiotec Fischer GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
Germany

Tel.: +49 2972 97880
Fax: +49 2972 978888
E-Mail: [email protected]
Internet: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio


----------



## narvarr

Mr Orange said:


> Are you having any clipping issues with you set up? The DSP has a max input of 4v and your pioneer is at 5v. Have you taken this into account when you set up the DSP?
> 
> I just got this email back from Helix about the inputs.
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Haydel,
> 
> your concerns are justified as this is an critical issue.
> If your source can deliver higher output voltage than the A/D converters can handle then digital clipping may occur if you crank up the volume of your head unit too far.
> Digital clipping is way more dangerous for loudspeakers than analog clipping.
> Thats the reason why we cannot recommend the combination of the DEX-P99 with the Helix DSP.
> 
> Regards,
> Robin Krichel
> 
> Robin Krichel
> Technical Director
> AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg
> mail: [email protected]
> web: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
> Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
> Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
> USt-IdNr.: DE 125919505
> Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Dale Haydel [mailto:[email protected]]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Mai 2015 18:47
> An: Audiotec Fischer Team
> Betreff: A question from Dale Haydel (Audiotec Fischer GmbH) [Scanned by Avira Exchange Security]
> 
> Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> A customer, Dale Haydel, has a question about: HELIX DSP - HP58209.
> I'm considering getting a DSP but I'm concerned about the RCA input voltage. My head unit preamp out is rated at 5V (Pioneer DEX-99RS). Is this too high of an input voltage?
> Thanks,
> Dale
> Here is the product link:
> 
> HELIX DSP
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, your Audiotec Fischer GmbH Team
> 
> Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg
> Germany
> 
> Tel.: +49 2972 97880
> Fax: +49 2972 978888
> E-Mail: [email protected]
> Internet: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio


Check my reply in the P99rs thread.


----------



## Mr Orange

narvarr said:


> Check my reply in the P99rs thread.


Found it!


----------



## Babs

I'd rock the 99RS by itself for avoiding the extra AD/DA conversions anyway. Better fidelity. But it's a matter of voltage. You can probably find the point where the 99 overdrives the DSP simply like finding clip point on amp gains. O-scope could do it or DD-1. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dannyboy100

I had the Helix DSP installed I just wanted to make sure I was routing the inputs and outputs correctly. a Little background:

3 channel active with sub. I'm using low level from the head unit for the tweeters mids and midbass. And the sub outputs from the head unit for my mono sub.

I'm pretty sure I have the fronts set up right. Just a little confused on the sub set up.

Heres a pic


----------



## miniSQ

dannyboy100 said:


> I had the Helix DSP installed I just wanted to make sure I was routing the inputs and outputs correctly. a Little background:
> 
> 3 channel active with sub. I'm using low level from the head unit for the tweeters mids and midbass. And the sub outputs from the head unit for my mono sub.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have the fronts set up right. Just a little confused on the sub set up.
> 
> Heres a pic


Looks good for the front set up, on the middle matrix, but you do not have to assign all 4 boxes across for each channel. The software handles that for you.

On the sub what cable are you running? single mono? Stereo? y cable single out of the HU and 2 into the helix?


----------



## dannyboy100

miniSQ said:


> Looks good for the front set up, on the middle matrix, but you do not have to assign all 4 boxes across for each channel. The software handles that for you.
> 
> On the sub what cable are you running? single mono? Stereo? y cable single out of the HU and 2 into the helix?


I'm running left and right rca's from the sub out of the head unit to EF on the Helix. Then an rca left and right from GH to the sub amp, no y cable.


----------



## Souldrop

Does the Helix only use a normal micro usb to usb wire to setup?


----------



## Kevin K

Souldrop said:


> Does the Helix only use a normal micro usb to usb wire to setup?


Uses a regular mini usb cable.


----------



## Souldrop

Thanks!


----------



## german88

Working on setting up my build and was hoping someone could lend some expertise.
Car: Tundra Crewmax 4 door 

I'm using the HELIX P-DSP coming from my factory HU with 4 full range high level in as follows:
Ft Rt +/-
Ft Lft +/-
RR Rt +/-
RR Lft +/-

Planning to use:
Helix MA40FX: powering 2 sets of Helix E62C components in each of the 4 doors.
Helix MA10FX: powering a single Helix E12W behind the rear seat. 

My main question is will the P-DSP take the 4 channel high level in and provide signal for the sub channel as well? Can't quite picture how this will look? I have the Helix software downloaded and have been playing in "Demo mode" just not sure how to set it up. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## miniSQ

german88 said:


> Working on setting up my build and was hoping someone could lend some expertise.
> Car: Tundra Crewmax 4 door
> 
> I'm using the HELIX P-DSP coming from my factory HU with 4 full range high level in as follows:
> Ft Rt +/-
> Ft Lft +/-
> RR Rt +/-
> RR Lft +/-
> 
> Planning to use:
> Helix MA40FX: powering 2 sets of Helix E62C components in each of the 4 doors.
> Helix MA10FX: powering a single Helix E12W behind the rear seat.
> 
> My main question is will the P-DSP take the 4 channel high level in and provide signal for the sub channel as well? Can't quite picture how this will look? I have the Helix software downloaded and have been playing in "Demo mode" just not sure how to set it up. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


yes and it would even do it if you only had 2 channel input. How far along in the demo set up did you get? If memory serves setting up the sub was a little trickier in V3 than it was in V2....which version are you using?


----------



## german88

Looks like V3.11.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

german88 said:


> Looks like V3.11.


That will not work, you will need 2.93


----------



## german88

V3.11 uninstalled. 2.93 installed. Thanks. Anyone have a screenshot of how to set it up? 
I need a few more posts before the site let's me insert images...


----------



## miniSQ

german88 said:


> V3.11 uninstalled. 2.93 installed. Thanks. Anyone have a screenshot of how to set it up?
> I need a few more posts before the site let's me insert images...


check out the pdf here:

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/file...pdf?xploidID=takrjtq7bvlk1irsirnvl4fen0jcovbh


----------



## german88

I've read that manual more times than I can remember. It's still not clear to me what my setup should look like for "config Inputs/outputs". 





miniSQ said:


> check out the pdf here:


----------



## german88

Upgraded my account to be able to post a screenshot but still not letting me?? This is frustrating...


----------



## lehelke3

Config input/output looks intimidating but it's quite simple.
If you have high level input coming in assign those 

Assign a each input for the same output and use only one setting even though there are for boxes each

When u get to your sub assign e and f for your sub output don't worry about input cause you have none. And pick a signal like front mid left for sub out e and front mid right for sub out f. 
What the dsp will do is it will provide output on e and f so you can use RCA's to your sub amp. No need to have as many inputs as outputs cause the dsp can take even one input and give you 3-4 outputs....

Hope this helps


----------



## german88

Big help. Thanks!


----------



## Babs

I'm on tablet Tapatalk so search capability stinks at the moment. Are the regular DSP RCA inputs differential-balanced or single-ended?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Souldrop

Anyone heard updates about the director remote?


----------



## Babs

K. So this thread is a little dead for my regular 8-ch DSP brethren. 

The director remote is coming August I read in another thread. Audiotec-Fischer confirmed to me the inputs are diff-balanced and gain adjustable internally. 

Here's an issue/question:
With the regular remote connected, the laptop will not detect the DSP in the tool. Gotta physically unplug the remote first. Is there a fix for this? Is it something I have set wrong?


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dannyboy100

dannyboy100 said:


> I had the Helix DSP installed I just wanted to make sure I was routing the inputs and outputs correctly. a Little background:
> 
> 3 channel active with sub. I'm using low level from the head unit for the tweeters mids and midbass. And the sub outputs from the head unit for my mono sub.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have the fronts set up right. Just a little confused on the sub set up.
> 
> Heres a pic


Can anybody confirm if I've set up my sub channels correctly?

I'm running a mono sub. I have the Land R from the Head units sub out into ch E and F on the Helix DSP.

Thanks


----------



## subterFUSE

dannyboy100 said:


> Can anybody confirm if I've set up my sub channels correctly?
> 
> I'm running a mono sub. I have the Land R from the Head units sub out into ch E and F on the Helix DSP.
> 
> Thanks



Can you clarify what outputs your head unit has?


----------



## miniSQ

dannyboy100 said:


> Can anybody confirm if I've set up my sub channels correctly?
> 
> I'm running a mono sub. I have the Land R from the Head units sub out into ch E and F on the Helix DSP.
> 
> Thanks


probably no need to run both inputs or outputs. 

I would run a Y connector into E and then a single cable ( or a y cable if your amp requires both inputs to be used ) into your amp.

But i could be wrong...i will pay attention to the answers you get here. Its always been a confusion for me on this part. But i use only 2 channels into the DSP. I dont have a seperate sub input.


----------



## Babs

If your sub outs from the head unit are stereo left and right, assign both of those to the one, or two outputs feeding your subs. 

Ex the way Danny has his inputs named as 1 and 2..
Sub1, Sub2 --> output G
Sub1, Sub2 --> output H

I'd recommend naming your inputs specifically.. As they're named on the head unit or in the head unit manual. 

They may or may not be stereo and may possibly be configurable as stereo or mono, head unit depending. 

The main thing you wanna make sure is if they are stereo, and your feeding two output channels that are mono going to one sub that you get both L and R inputs summing for any/each mono output. 

I can see why you're using two outputs for one sub. Many/most amps are kinda setup for two inputs. However that might not even be necessary. Check your sub amp manual on that. It may only need one input, making two redundant. I too run two outputs to a mono amp but it needs it best I can tell. 

Also... That brings up another possibility. Check and see if your sub amp sums L/R inputs into mono which it probably does.. If so, just send Sub1 input to G output and Sub2 to H. Done. 

In short: the two outputs from your head unit are going to be summed somewhere eventually.. Either head unit, DSP or amp. Just make sure if they're stereo that both inputs are used at the DSP. 

Hopefully all that makes sense.  



Anyone see my remote and PC hookup question in my last post?


Also, sorry was on the phone.. Didn't mean to steal your thunder subterFUSE for trying to help him with that. Didn't see your post question for troubleshooting. 

Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

miniSQ said:


> probably no need to run both inputs or outputs.
> 
> 
> 
> I would run a Y connector into E and then a single cable ( or a y cable if your amp requires both inputs to be used ) into your amp.
> 
> 
> 
> But i could be wrong...i will pay attention to the answers you get here. Its always been a confusion for me on this part. But i use only 2 channels into the DSP. I dont have a seperate sub input.



Could probably do that, but rather than a Y cable, I'd let one of the three devices sum the signals, depending on the sub amp. If it needs two inputs, I personally would feed it two summed by the Helix. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dannyboy100

subterFUSE said:


> Can you clarify what outputs your head unit has?


Sure, I've got 3 sets of outputs. Front, rear and sub.

I'm using the front and the sub out puts out of the head unit. 

Front is going to A and B and Sub to E and F on the input side of the Helix.

The sub outputs are on G and H.


----------



## dannyboy100

miniSQ said:


> probably no need to run both inputs or outputs.
> 
> I would run a Y connector into E and then a single cable ( or a y cable if your amp requires both inputs to be used ) into your amp.
> 
> But i could be wrong...i will pay attention to the answers you get here. Its always been a confusion for me on this part. But i use only 2 channels into the DSP. I dont have a seperate sub input.


Yeah I'm fine with the other inputs and outputs, but the sub confuses me as well!!


----------



## dannyboy100

Babs said:


> If your sub outs from the head unit are stereo left and right, assign both of those to the one, or two outputs feeding your subs.
> 
> Ex the way Danny has his inputs named as 1 and 2..
> Sub1, Sub2 --> output G
> Sub1, Sub2 --> output H
> 
> I'd recommend naming your inputs specifically.. As they're named on the head unit or in the head unit manual.
> 
> They may or may not be stereo and may possibly be configurable as stereo or mono, head unit depending.
> 
> The main thing you wanna make sure is if they are stereo, and your feeding two output channels that are mono going to one sub that you get both L and R inputs summing for any/each mono output.
> 
> I can see why you're using two outputs for one sub. Many/most amps are kinda setup for two inputs. However that might not even be necessary. Check your sub amp manual on that. It may only need one input, making two redundant. I too run two outputs to a mono amp but it needs it best I can tell.
> 
> Also... That brings up another possibility. Check and see if your sub amp sums L/R inputs into mono which it probably does.. If so, just send Sub1 input to G output and Sub2 to H. Done.
> 
> In short: the two outputs from your head unit are going to be summed somewhere eventually.. Either head unit, DSP or amp. Just make sure if they're stereo that both inputs are used at the DSP.
> 
> Hopefully all that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone see my remote and PC hookup question in my last post?
> 
> 
> Also, sorry was on the phone.. Didn't mean to steal your thunder subterFUSE for trying to help him with that. Didn't see your post question for troubleshooting.
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks for the help Babs. My head unit is an Alpine 149bt and the sub amp is a Match MA10FX. 

I can't find anything in the Alpine manual about switching the sub output from stereo to mono. So I'm just going to assume the outputs are fixed stereo.

Now, the Match's manual has this little nugget:

The MATCH MA 10FX is equipped with two RCA/
Cinch inputs. They can be connected with the pre-
amplifier output/s or line outputs of the signal
source (head unit, processor etc.).
In case only one of the signal inputs is connected, 
the output level must be adjusted with the input le-
vel control control or a Y-RCA adapter can be used.

I feel like an idiot, but I'm not sure exactly what it's telling me!!! 

So again I'm just assuming I need both inputs need to be plugged in.

So that leaves me with summing at the DSP.

I've set it up to look like this:


----------



## Babs

I have the same 149BT.. Check page 55, item 19. They're left/right. Don't see a setting to make them mono or not, so roll with it as is. Make it easy on yourself.. Call those inputs in the Helix "Sub Left" and "Sub Right" or something like that. Sum it in the Helix as thus:

/ Sub L / Sub R / ----- Output (G and H both)
This will send two outputs, both mono, to your sub amp.

I'm actually only running a single RCA left right pair from my 149BT, all audio stuff bypassed, amp defeated and sub set to off in the head unit. But if you wanted sub level control from up front without a Helix remote, your way will do that.

Be careful with this though.. Your Helix needs nothing crossed over prior, but check the manual if that sub channel by default is low-passed, or if having sub on at all forces high-pass for the main channels. etc. Defeat all that in the head unit if possible. Which is why I keep it simple, kill all that and JUST run a single RCA pair all-pass to the Helix. And of course also be careful that you don't accidentally defeat all the high-pass protection to your tweets.  Just sayin' 

And I apologize I simply cannot give you a simple concise answer today.


----------



## dannyboy100

Nothing is simple and concise when it comes to this hobby!!! At least for me it's not!!!
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

You're right I wanted to use the sub outputs from the Alpine to be able to use the sub level from the head unit, since I didnt buy the Helix remote.

I know what you mean about the crossovers on the Alpine. I had researched this very issue when I first set up the unit. If I remember correctly the crossovers can be bypassed.

So by running both Sub L and Sub R to both G and H, the dsp automatically halves the inputs, which makes sense to me. Now I have to wait til tonight to update the DSP, work always gets in the way!

So quick question, the way I had it before should limit the volume of the sub right? I mean now that I'm going to be running both left and right to each channel, should I expect more outut from the sub?


----------



## lehelke3

I read conflicting info here. You said you have three pairs of high level inputs that are used for your three way set. So if you want to do it properly you should use AB for tweets CD for mids and EF for your midbass and assign same chanels on the output 

For your sub you have a choice. You can disregard your rca pre outs from deck and just sum for example EF to be your GH output or use the RCA's coming from deck to input on GF (if dsp will allow you to combine high level and RCA inputs) and use GF outputs to feed for sub amp. 

That's how i would do it ...
I have C-DSP and i use two chanels for my sub even though i could get away with using one and i get more bass. I noticed that while playing with software that when i allocated two channels two my sub it got a lot more louder. And i don't even have a sub input i used my high level mid signal for my sub .....

Hope that helps !


----------



## dannyboy100

lehelke3 said:


> I read conflicting info here. You said you have three pairs of high level inputs that are used for your three way set. So if you want to do it properly you should use AB for tweets CD for mids and EF for your midbass and assign same chanels on the output
> 
> For your sub you have a choice. You can disregard your rca pre outs from deck and just sum for example EF to be your GH output or use the RCA's coming from deck to input on GF (if dsp will allow you to combine high level and RCA inputs) and use GF outputs to feed for sub amp.
> 
> That's how i would do it ...
> I have C-DSP and i use two chanels for my sub even though i could get away with using one and i get more bass. I noticed that while playing with software that when i allocated two channels two my sub it got a lot more louder. And i don't even have a sub input i used my high level mid signal for my sub .....
> 
> Hope that helps !



Yeah sorry for the confusion, I have 3 pairs of low level RCA outputs. But I'm only using 2 (front and sub).

I ended up running both sub inputs left and right at 50% to both outputs. Like Babs showed me, and it did the trick. 

I'm getting a better measurement in REW now and more output.

Thanks again Babs!!


----------



## Babs

dannyboy100 said:


> So by running both Sub L and Sub R to both G and H, the dsp automatically halves the inputs, which makes sense to me. Now I have to wait til tonight to update the DSP, work always gets in the way!


The DSP "sums" all the inputs assigned to any output, into one output signal, right.



dannyboy100 said:


> So quick question, the way I had it before should limit the volume of the sub right? I mean now that I'm going to be running both left and right to each channel, should I expect more outut from the sub?


If you only have one side of two sub channels that are stereo, you're only getting one side of your music at the sub. No your sub output won't increase by adding the other signal, but you'll be getting all, not just 1/2 the music information.


----------



## dannyboy100

Babs said:


> The DSP "sums" all the inputs assigned to any output, into one output signal, right.
> 
> 
> 
> If you only have one side of two sub channels that are stereo, you're only getting one side of your music at the sub. No your sub output won't increase by adding the other signal, but you'll be getting all, not just 1/2 the music information.


Thanks again Babs, the sub certainly sounds better now that I've correctly summed both channels.

It's too bad the Hanatsu's REW thread kind of died down. I thought it was great idea to be able to share .mdat files and get input from other members. I'm having some issues using REW to get my midbass and sub smoother. I've played with different xover points but even after eq, and after 4 tunes, the lower end still seems a bit thick.


----------



## Babs

Slow sweeps for bass measuring. Give it a shot. Assuming phasing is all good, which is to me even more important before messing with the tonality. I have all of two medium Q cuts on my sub and that's about it. 

Glad the input fixed you up. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Babs said:


> Here's an issue/question:
> With the regular remote connected, the laptop will not detect the DSP in the tool. Gotta physically unplug the remote first. Is there a fix for this? Is it something I have set wrong?



^ anyone?


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aaron126

Hello All, 

Can some one help to about routing when I using v3.11c.
My problem is when i using v3.11c only twitter has sound come out, but when I use back V.2.80 everything back to normal. Is it V3.11c not suitable for Helix Dsp? 
Also I want to know that how can I connect portable dac player to dsp ? Is it connect the REC to channel E&F?

Now my routing is input
A= Front L full range
B= Front R full range
C,D,E,F not assign

Output is
Channel A = FL High
Channel B = RL High
Channel C = FL Mid
Channel D = RL Mid
Channel E = FL Low
Channel F = RL Low
others is subwoofer. 
My system as follow

3 way active system 
1 pcs 4 channel amplifier for twitter and mid 
1 pcs 2 channel amplifer for bass 
1 pcs mono 1 channel for subwoofer. 
1 pcs Helix Dsp.


----------



## lehelke3

Hey there

U can use the optical input to hook up your player.
As for the sounds issue it sounds that the settings have changed. 
U can always go back to the settings that worked and look at all settings and copy it in the new one.
You can also save your settings in the old one and reload them in the new one. Just some suggestions for you......


----------



## Aaron126

I have tried to load the old setting to the new version. Unfortunately, I can't set the input from channel A to F to FL full Range & RL full range. But my old setting input config is channel A to F set it all full range. 
When i setting int in new version channel A&B to full range , others channel will automatically to not assigned


----------



## lehelke3

So let's start over. Give an overview of your system and I can try to help you. R u using high level inputs or RCA's
List your inputs and the outputs you need


----------



## Aaron126

Thanks for helping.

My system and connection as follow
Head unit RCA to Helix Dsp in channel A&B in High level.
Out Put 
Channel A to 4 channel amplifier channel A for FL twitter.
Channel B to 4 channel amplifier channel B for FR twitter.
Channel C to 4 channel amplifier channel C for FL Mid-range.
Channel D to 4 channel amplifier channel D for FR Mid-range.
Channel E to 2 channel amplifier channel E for FL Bass.
Channel F to 2 channel amplifier channel F for FR Bass.
Channel G&H to 1 channel amplifier channel G&H for sub woofer.

I hope the output routing in new version V3.11C like my old setting , please help .


----------



## lehelke3

You mean high level input to your DSP
Just to help me avoid making a mistake tell me what are your speakers.
Is this a 3 way front setup with subs?


----------



## Aaron126

Yes my speaker is 3way front setup with subwoofer


----------



## mathematics

2.93 files aren't compatible with 3.11 and vice versa. You have to redo it in 3.11 from scratch. That's why your settings aren't there.


----------



## lehelke3

Ok first I would hit reset so you start fresh with your new setup
Based on what you told me u have two high level inputs. A/B for tweets and C/D for mids (assuming)

Do your inputs as follows: (bypass all filters to eliminate errors)

For A/B use front tweeter left/right
For C/D use front mid-range left/right
For E/F leave it blank
For G/H also leave it blank 

For Summation of input table do as follows:

A/B front tweeters L/R
C/D front mid-range L/R
E/D front mid range L/R again
F/G front mid-range L/R again

For the output channel label them as you wish

A/B for tweeters
C/D for mid-range
E/F for midbass
G/H for sub 1/2 if you have stereo RCA going to your monoblock 

You can do this live and confirm as you assign these channels that the right speakers come on each time.

Does this make sense?


----------



## miniSQ

I.m guessing that you checked this already, but v3 mutes its channels by default...did you unmute everything?

And i belive 3 11 now will accept files from 2.93 software.


----------



## Aaron126

Thanks for your help lehelk, i will try your setting later. 
MiniSq i was unmuted every channel already.


----------



## Aaron126

Does someone know that V2.80 does it support aux in directly from my protable payer to the DSP? I was try connect it with optical without remote controller, it alomost burned the mid range, that's why I want to connect it from RCA.


----------



## miniSQ

Aaron126 said:


> Does someone know that V2.80 does it support aux in directly from my protable payer to the DSP? I was try connect it with optical without remote controller, it alomost burned the mid range, that's why I want to connect it from RCA.


2.80 will support optical in to the DSP, but as noted in the tuning guide, you must use the remote control. Otherwise there is no way to control the volume.


----------



## susedan

Anyone using v3.20a? It shows .25db steps per band for both non-pro and pro. Is this a programming error, or did the software just allow for a lot more resolution?


----------



## phil r

i recently updated to v3.20a on my non pro.....
and now have .25 increments on eq and levels, but it can be adjusted to .5 or 1.0db ....good upgrade..


----------



## Babs

I've discovered a very strange bug I'm not so sure about. Helix as 6 assignable RCA level inputs correct. 

So I swapped and put in my 80PRS to try it. I added RCA's in case I wanted to try out the 80PRS by itself. Fair enough. So if I plug in all six into the helix, it will not route the inputs correctly. 

On just all-pass mid L/R RCA's it's fine. 

With all six it seems to get confused regardless the input channels I have assigned. It'll either pull from the sub or high LR pairs but not all 6, and oddly volume dependently. Raise volume and the channels A/B cut out and it goes I believe to G/H channels (only). 

What leads me to believe it's the helix and not the head unit is I can literally unassign all inputs within the IO page of the tool which one would expect everything to mute, but the silly thing is still playing ?!?!, through all outputs from one of those channels cutting out A/B still. Appears regardless of IO settings C/D (mid outputs from 80PRS) which are all-pass capable simple are not playing if the other RCA's from high and low 80PRS outputs are plugged in. 

Anyone seen or know anything about this? Weird is an understatement. 

I'm fairly certain the head unit is doing it's thing normally. Testing with a single RCA pair connected from the mid output from 80PRS (all-pass), tested normally, and I believe when I unassigned it from any input it was normal and muted any blank inputs.

Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

^ So I guess it would be appropriate to ask simply, is anyone using more than one pair of RCA's as inputs to their DSP, and if so run across any oddities remotely close to that?

Note, I do understand only a single RCA pair is needed.


----------



## Jani X

Hi, can you clarify what you are trying to achieve?

I had each separate inputpair routed to separate outputpairs, and thats exactly what I got. I hear nothing when nothing is routed to the outputchannel I'm listening to  Maybe I didn't understand you.

Now I use only 80PRS's mid-output to DSP's a-b inputpair routed to each of the DSP's outputpairs.


The new 3.20 fw and sw are really good  
EQ just got really precise and I finally discovered the _precise phase adjusting for all outputchannels_ -feature too. Maybe that was present on previous sw-versions too... dunno.


----------



## Babs

Jani X said:


> Hi, can you clarify what you are trying to achieve?
> 
> I had each separate inputpair routed to separate outputpairs, and thats exactly what I got. I hear nothing when nothing is routed to the outputchannel I'm listening to  Maybe I didn't understand you.
> 
> Now I use only 80PRS's mid-output to DSP's a-b inputpair routed to each of the DSP's outputpairs.


I was attempting to run three pairs of RCA's from the 80PRS to the DSP as follows:
A/B inputs - A/B tweeter outputs
C/D inputs - C/D midbass outputs 
E/F inputs - G/H subwoofer outputs

Granted yes I do know you just need one pair of full-range RCA's. My thinking was since I ran 6 channels, give it a try. (I had run all the channels to trunk from the 80PRS in order to give the head unit by itself a try just for experimentation). 

I'm running ok now, as you are, with just all-pass from the 80PRS mid channels, as those are the only ones that will run all-pass in network mode. 

However, why the DSP flips out if all 6 inputs are used, is perplexing.

Since I've got a good solid tune saved, I'm going to try a full reset at the Helix. Killi off both tunes stored, and try a fresh new tune with crossovers and TA set, trying all 6 inputs again.



Jani X said:


> The new 3.20 fw and sw are really good
> EQ just got really precise and I finally discovered the _precise phase adjusting for all outputchannels_ -feature too. Maybe that was present on previous sw-versions too... dunno.


Yes, 3.20a appears to be a great update as has been all the 3.x versions I believe.


----------



## lehelke3

Do you guys know if new software version is available for C-DSP?


----------



## Babs

lehelke3 said:


> Do you guys know if new software version is available for C-DSP?


I know v3 only shows demo modes for 3 Helix branded products: DSP, P Six DSP and DSP Pro, then the other Match and Brax products. No C-DSP listed, sorry.


----------



## narvarr

lehelke3 said:


> Do you guys know if new software version is available for C-DSP?


Not available for C-DSP.


----------



## Kraken

Can Helix DSP do signal summing? Trying to decide between Helix DSP and 3Sixty.3.
The setup will be using OEM HU.


----------



## Babs

Kraken said:


> Can Helix DSP do signal summing? Trying to decide between Helix DSP and 3Sixty.3.
> The setup will be using OEM HU.


Yep.. It'll sum any combo of input channels.


----------



## nizerims

Babs, 

I've experienced something similar (a few times), but while using digital/optical in. 

I chalked it up to something voltage related. (I use ZERO RCA inputs)


----------



## Babs

I should update.. Found out it was a simple setting in signal management. It had aux auto-sensing which was blowing the Helix's mind as I had all 6 inputs used. Switched it off.. Problem solved.

Also, should let you guys know, new version of the tool is out, 3.28b. Get it here:
PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH

Minor stuff but they did tweak the visuals on the graph a bit, I guess for visibility. Kinda cool.

3.28b public beta release

* HELIX P SIX DSP MK2 and MATCH PP 62DSP have been implemented
* Main - new frequency graph implemented
* New verification process added for checking DSP OS updates
* MicroSD-file export function unlocked (Key 'F9') for creating plug & play sound setup files
* Minor Bugfixes


----------



## percy072

Having issues not being able to configure the input/output' using the current 3.31b software?? It is being used for OEM integration (signal summing speaker level L/R channels) Trying to run an active 3-way front + subwoofer. 

I can get everything on except the tweeters?? It will not allow me to assign Front L Full and Front R full for A,B,C,D...only A and B. I had to go back and upload the 2.93 version to allow me to assign all input/outputs.

Is the 3.31b software not able to be used for my particular application?? Version 2.93 is great but hoping I've missed something and there is in fact some way to configure using the latest software.


----------



## Hanatsu

Here's what the phase settings does;



As you can see, it adds more delay. It might indeed fix issues around the crossover but you might end up with huge group delays in the LF, especially if you got vented enclosures with subsonic filters active (highpass).


----------



## percy072

Thank you Jutta Sommer @ ATF for these, figure I'd post them here in case someone else get's stumped (like me) :blush:

Had no idea about the drag and drop feature!! 






All outputs working perfect now!! And the 3.31b software is much better...


----------



## brumledb

AF has some amazing customer service. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rsjaurr

brumledb said:


> AF has some amazing customer service.



yeah....except those who are left with P DSP and C DSP!!


----------



## Hanatsu

Does the new software work with the old PDSP? Dunno if it's my unit which is faulty or if the 3xx version simply ain't compatible?


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk.


----------



## subterFUSE

Hanatsu said:


> Here's what the phase settings does;
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, it adds more delay. It might indeed fix issues around the crossover but you might end up with huge group delays in the LF, especially if you got vented enclosures with subsonic filters active (highpass).




Han,

Which channel in the Helix was this test performed on? Subwoofer, or Mid/High?


Also, could you try to make a Spectrograph plot of the data? I'm curious to see if the delay is consistent across all frequencies.


----------



## Hanatsu

subterFUSE said:


> Han,
> 
> Which channel in the Helix was this test performed on? Subwoofer, or Mid/High?
> 
> 
> Also, could you try to make a Spectrograph plot of the data?  I'm curious to see if the delay is consistent across all frequencies.



Allpass filter are frequency dependent delay so it should not be consistent at all frequencies. I can do a new measure later.

This was on subwoofer channel, all other channels were unaffected with any settings.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk.


----------



## Krieger88

Can anyone confirm what windows tablet would be the perfect match for control and tuning? I read some people had an issue that their tablet wasn't precise enough to click certain controls.


----------



## piyush7243

Krieger88 said:


> Can anyone confirm what windows tablet would be the perfect match for control and tuning? I read some people had an issue that their tablet wasn't precise enough to click certain controls.


It works well. But Helix software is always known to work crappy in Lower resolution so my first pref would be venue pro 8 which is full HD and then Notion Ink which is 800x1200.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

I've got an Asus Transformer Book. It's an 11" tablet with detachable keyboard. Screen is perfect size to fit Helix software if you hide the taskbar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> I've got an Asus Transformer Book. It's an 11" tablet with detachable keyboard. Screen is perfect size to fit Helix software if you hide the taskbar.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you run your mic setup and tuning software as well simultaneously with it?


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> Can you run your mic setup and tuning software as well simultaneously with it?



I have not tried. I am doing most of my tuning and measurements on a 27" iMac that I keep in the garage on a rolling cart. With the 27" screen, I can have SysTune Pro on one side and the Helix software on the other side of the screen. No need to move around windows to access what I need. It's perfect.

The little Asus is just for tuning inside the car.


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> I have not tried. I am doing most of my tuning and measurements on a 27" iMac that I keep in the garage on a rolling cart. With the 27" screen, I can have SysTune Pro on one side and the Helix software on the other side of the screen. No need to move around windows to access what I need. It's perfect.
> 
> The little Asus is just for tuning inside the car.



Nice!! And with the mic array you can stay out of the car. You're dialed in man!


----------



## speakerman99

I jumped on the P6MKii bandwagon today and I have a seriously basic question....How do I connect the speaker level inputs to the P6? 

Before you roll your eyes and hit next for this newbie question. The P6 only has pin connectors and grooves that are obviously for some sort of input adapter. I'd then planned to run those loose wires into the factory amp outputs. I know helix sells the EPC harness, but those are not available for my 2015 gmc sierra. I just need a small adapter to plug in the amp. What the heck am I missing?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

speakerman99 said:


> I jumped on the P6MKii bandwagon today and I have a seriously basic question....How do I connect the speaker level inputs to the P6?
> 
> Before you roll your eyes and hit next for this newbie question. The P6 only has pin connectors and grooves that are obviously for some sort of input adapter. I'd then planned to run those loose wires into the factory amp outputs. I know helix sells the EPC harness, but those are not available for my 2015 gmc sierra. I just need a small adapter to plug in the amp. What the heck am I missing?


You insert the wires into the provided terminal/plug that is there and tighten down. Then plug it in.


----------



## speakerman99

That's my issue. I don't have any king of terminal plug. The only cable/connector that came in the box was a usb cable. I uploaded a picture of the connection at the amp. Bought this from an authorized dealer and the box was sealed. Not sure if I'm just being dense or if I'm missing that terminal plug.


----------



## XR250rdr

Not dense, you're missing the plug. Both of them actually.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

speakerman99 said:


> That's my issue. I don't have any king of terminal plug. The only cable/connector that came in the box was a usb cable. I uploaded a picture of the connection at the amp. Bought this from an authorized dealer and the box was sealed. Not sure if I'm just being dense or if I'm missing that terminal plug.


Not dense at all, you're apparently missing the plug. Your dealer should be able to take care of it for you though.


----------



## speakerman99

Thanks guys. I was beginning to think that I've been away from car audio too long!

Helix website didn't help because it only listed the USB cable as the only supplied accessory.


----------



## BlackHHR

speakerman99 said:


> I jumped on the P6MKii bandwagon today and I have a seriously basic question....How do I connect the speaker level inputs to the P6?
> 
> Before you roll your eyes and hit next for this newbie question. The P6 only has pin connectors and grooves that are obviously for some sort of input adapter. I'd then planned to run those loose wires into the factory amp outputs. I know helix sells the EPC harness, but those are not available for my 2015 gmc sierra. I just need a small adapter to plug in the amp. What the heck am I missing?


Please call 770-888-8200 Hybrid Audio. Your product should have every plug in the box.

We will help solve this problem for you.


----------



## percy072

Anyone else get real bad harmonics from the laptop when tuning?? I'm sure it's because its picking up something from having the laptop power source plugged in. The subwoofer just "hummmm's" all the time.

Any work around's?? Don't recall having this with an H-800


----------



## subterFUSE

Does it go away when laptop is not plugged in to power?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## percy072

subterFUSE said:


> Does it go away when laptop is not plugged in to power?


It does...but my battery doesn't last long. I can see the harmonics on RTA (60hz) and hear it through the sub. Only other thing I do is pull the Neg off the sub to tune everything else.


----------



## subterFUSE

it's ground loop noise from the laptop power supply. 60Hz is the AC rate for 120V power in the US.

Does your laptop power adapter have a 3rd prong?


----------



## percy072

It is plugged into a bonded outlet, maybe I'll try using a cord with an un-grounded cord end.

It's definitely picking up the 60hz off the incoming utility power supply...



Odd that this is just with the Helix, it's even worse after swapping in some JBL MS amps??


----------



## speakerman99

Has anyone figured out how to adjust text size in Windows 10? I just upgraded my surface from Windows 7. I used to be able to adjust text size down to 100% and dsp program was legible. I'm looking under display settings in W10, but can't seem to find the right combination.


----------



## speakerman99

speakerman99 said:


> Has anyone figured out how to adjust text size in Windows 10? I just upgraded my surface from Windows 7. I used to be able to adjust text size down to 100% and dsp program was legible. I'm looking under display settings in W10, but can't seem to find the right combination.


Ok. I'm a moron.:mean: I've looked at this screen 5 times. Started chasing some other options and missed the hyperlink to "set custom scale level" which is basically the same adjustment for relative text size down to 100% just as with Win7. For anyone else looking for this here's a screen shot. 

Requires user to sign out each time this is adjusted. It works but is really a pain. Does anyone know a better way to work with the DSP?


----------



## jbeez

Does anyone know what "source volume control" is in the pc-tool software? It's under the DCM button, then PC-Tool Configuration Tab, its on the top right. I tried searching online and through the tuning manuals Helix has posted but I don't even see it in their screenshots in there.


----------



## mathematics

jbeez said:


> Does anyone know what "source volume control" is in the pc-tool software? It's under the DCM button, then PC-Tool Configuration Tab, its on the top right. I tried searching online and through the tuning manuals Helix has posted but I don't even see it in their screenshots in there.




It's used to level match different sources such as CD and Toslink so they play At the same volume. It will boost the signal. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## XR250rdr

It adds level adjustment to IO menu


----------



## dengland

New owner of the DSP Pro. Thought I would join in the conversation. 

I struggled mightily with the JBL MS-8 in a 2014 Ram 1500 w/Alpine before giving up and making the investment in DSP Pro.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have decided I may have been to harsh on the MS-8. I am not doing any better than it did. Despite several smart folks telling me to bypass the factory processing and life will get better, I have not pulled that trigger.

For now, just the "Hello World" .... Questions to follow after I put in some more work.


----------



## Lanson

Helix V Eight here, was doing so well, loving tuning this beast, and this morning I hop in the truck and....no sound...blinking red light on Helix. FML!

No time to diagnose right now, but not sure what happened. I was tuning till late last night, saved my last config to spot 2, shut down the software and pulled the cable, and that was it.


----------



## BlackHHR

fourthmeal said:


> Helix V Eight here, was doing so well, loving tuning this beast, and this morning I hop in the truck and....no sound...blinking red light on Helix. FML!
> 
> No time to diagnose right now, but not sure what happened. I was tuning till late last night, saved my last config to spot 2, shut down the software and pulled the cable, and that was it.


Did you load the file after you saved the file?


----------



## RattyMcClelland

Is anyone else experiencing a quiet sub woofer with the sub volume and gain maxed out.

I have a p six dsp and I have 2 channels wired to each 2ohm voice coil on my hybrid audio Clarus sub. Sub volume on Max on the director and gain on Max on the dsp.
Front stage volume reduced to meet the quite sub. 
It's fine now however I have no headroom to turn the sub up for a blast Now.
Muting one sub channel on one voice coil make the sub quieter still obviously.


----------



## Babs

RattyMcClelland said:


> Is anyone else experiencing a quiet sub woofer with the sub volume and gain maxed out.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a p six dsp and I have 2 channels wired to each 2ohm voice coil on my hybrid audio Clarus sub. Sub volume on Max on the director and gain on Max on the dsp.
> 
> Front stage volume reduced to meet the quite sub.
> 
> It's fine now however I have no headroom to turn the sub up for a blast Now.
> 
> Muting one sub channel on one voice coil make the sub quieter still obviously.



Dunno if using two separate amp channels is kosher.. I tried this once with not so cool results with a DVC TM65. I suggest for test one channel and see if it continues or also I suspect it cleans it up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

Here's one for the peanut gallery.. 

Sony GS9 sending all 6 analog channels to DSP Pro-2. 

Front LR to Helix AB to feed tweet and mid outputs
Rear LR to Helix CD to feed midbass outputs
Sub LR to Helix EF to feed Sub LR Outputs summed in IO. 

Outputs are fine.. However, if I mute everything in the Helix you should get silence right.. No I get a faint bleed of signal audible from the subs. ?? That's a head scratcher. Any ideas? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## nineball76

Babs said:


> Here's one for the peanut gallery..
> 
> Sony GS9 sending all 6 analog channels to DSP Pro-2.
> 
> Front LR to Helix AB to feed tweet and mid outputs
> Rear LR to Helix CD to feed midbass outputs
> Sub LR to Helix EF to feed Sub LR Outputs summed in IO.
> 
> Outputs are fine.. However, if I mute everything in the Helix you should get silence right.. No I get a faint bleed of signal audible from the subs. ?? That's a head scratcher. Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I'm curious why you would need all 6 going to dsp? All signals would essentially be equal. Unless you're controlling fader and sub level at the Sony.


----------



## brumledb

My guess is for extra time alignment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

nineball76 said:


> I'm curious why you would need all 6 going to dsp? All signals would essentially be equal. Unless you're controlling fader and sub level at the Sony.


Certainly only need a single pair.. I already had the 6 channels run and thought it'd be nice if I ever wished to test things with fader balance in case there was something in stage I thought might be a leveling issue. I figured it's already run.


----------



## nineball76

Makes sense. Was worried. I'm hoping to do the Sony to dsp soon and only planned on 2 inputs.


----------



## Lanson

BlackHHR said:


> Did you load the file after you saved the file?


Who knows, I probably did it wrong. It is "easy" but also easy to make a boo-boo. 

I'll muck around with it tonight. I suppose if it won't load (connect), I should just hard-reset the thing.


----------



## Lanson

ahh....sound again! That's better. 

Next up, to get my Umik-1 to recognize the V Eight.


----------



## Babs

fourthmeal said:


> ahh....sound again! That's better.
> 
> Next up, to get my Umik-1 to recognize the V Eight.



Or rather get the V8 to recognize your UMIK-1. 

Let us know how that goes. I assume you're referring to the Helix tool RTA. I've not heard too much on guys using Helix tool RTA. For what it is, especially with the v4 update, it's very nice for basic RTA EQ duty. 

You can go higher resolution now than 1/3 octave and you can always have your chosen curve on screen to shoot for. And built in integration with the tool. I think it's quite underrated or rather ignored for fancier stuff like REW. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Lanson

Babs said:


> Or rather get the V8 to recognize your UMIK-1.
> 
> Let us know how that goes. I assume you're referring to the Helix tool RTA. I've not heard too much on guys using Helix tool RTA. For what it is, especially with the v4 update, it's very nice for basic RTA EQ duty.
> 
> You can go higher resolution now than 1/3 octave and you can always have your chosen curve on screen to shoot for. And built in integration with the tool. I think it's quite underrated or rather ignored for fancier stuff like REW.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, flip that around. 

I love using REW, but I am finding myself bumping up against how REW does things vs how Helix does things. In fact, if someone has an idea (like an EQ model to pick in REW, or if I can make a custom EQ that works with the same features as the Helix), I'd be grateful. You see, with REW it wants to go up AND down on frequencies very close to another, but you can't do that with the Helix, you basically go graphic and then fine-tweak the q and the frequency a few different ranges. Its brilliantly simple but hard to make REW tell me what to do with it. I am otherwise absolutely thrilled with using REW with the Helix, I just need to iron out the kinks or make it easier.


----------



## Babs

fourthmeal said:


> Yes, flip that around.
> 
> I love using REW, but I am finding myself bumping up against how REW does things vs how Helix does things. In fact, if someone has an idea (like an EQ model to pick in REW, or if I can make a custom EQ that works with the same features as the Helix), I'd be grateful. You see, with REW it wants to go up AND down on frequencies very close to another, but you can't do that with the Helix, you basically go graphic and then fine-tweak the q and the frequency a few different ranges. Its brilliantly simple but hard to make REW tell me what to do with it. I am otherwise absolutely thrilled with using REW with the Helix, I just need to iron out the kinks or make it easier.



Yes you can. The Helix channels are 31-bands of graphic yes but also fully parametric. Tap on the header to the right where your frequency band snd Q Are bottom right. You can assign any band to any frequency fully parametric. And first and last bands to a shelf filter and now all kinds of all pass filter if your DSP will run V4 Helix tool. 

Example: I could go to one of the first bands I think 32hz maybe it is, select it to be parametric, assign it to 4758hz with a Q of 1 or 15 or anywhere in between. Most capable and dangerously feature rich EQ I've ever used. 

If you need to see what I'm referring to, I could try to snap off a quick vid and show you how to do this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Lanson

Babs said:


> Yes you can. The Helix channels are 31-bands of graphic yes but also fully parametric. Tap on the header to the right where your frequency band snd Q Are bottom right. You can assign any band to any frequency fully parametric. And first and last bands to a shelf filter and now all kinds of all pass filter if your DSP will run V4 Helix tool.
> 
> Example: I could go to one of the first bands I think 32hz maybe it is, select it to be parametric, assign it to 4758hz with a Q of 1 or 15 or anywhere in between. Most capable and dangerously feature rich EQ I've ever used.
> 
> If you need to see what I'm referring to, I could try to snap off a quick vid and show you how to do this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Hmm, the v eight seems to not do this. I have graphic and then can tweak a frequency up or down in pre determined steps, and q is adjustable. I'm running v.4


----------



## toneloc2

hey Babs id like to see a vid on that...... pl...... thx......


----------



## Babs

toneloc2 said:


> hey Babs id like to see a vid on that...... pl...... thx......



Will do when I can. Don't expect oscar nominated cinematography but we'll gotcha there. 

Scroll mouse over to where it says graphic EQ I think.. Off to the bottom right beside all your EQ sliders. Above the sliders for level, freq and Q.. Click on it and see what happens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

Tap on "Fine EQ"


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## brianhj

How do I use only one pair of inputs? 

I've got full range rca going from head unit to helix. I'm only hearing one pair of outputs. How do I use a single pair of inputs to drive all 8 outputs?


----------



## Babs

brianhj said:


> How do I use only one pair of inputs?
> 
> 
> 
> I've got full range rca going from head unit to helix. I'm only hearing one pair of outputs. How do I use a single pair of inputs to drive all 8 outputs?



Drag those same inputs from left side to the respective outputs you want to feed. They should drop into place. If you miss-assign one, no prob.. Just right click on the assigned input and it will delete the assignment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## brianhj

Babs said:


> Drag those same inputs from left side to the respective outputs you want to feed. They should drop into place. If you miss-assign one, no prob.. Just right click on the assigned input and it will delete the assignment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Oh **** it's working, thank you!


----------



## dengland

Are the AFPX files stored in a database?

I have a new laptop that I was trying to equip with my sound setups and cannot locate the files.

Thanks


----------



## miniSQ

dengland said:


> Are the AFPX files stored in a database?
> 
> I have a new laptop that I was trying to equip with my sound setups and cannot locate the files.
> 
> Thanks


whenever you save a set up, the computer allows you to choose where it is saved too. Default is in the application folder, but you can save them anywhere you like. Where did you choose to save them? Thats where they are


----------



## Lanson

This is awesome, thanks for the heads up. So basically I have 31 bands of infinite parametric, which the REW EQ system will use to great effect.

Just one more reason to love the Helix lately.



Babs said:


> Tap on "Fine EQ"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## benny z

yes - they call it "paragraphic".


----------



## Babs

fourthmeal said:


> This is awesome, thanks for the heads up. So basically I have 31 bands of infinite parametric, which the REW EQ system will use to great effect.
> 
> Just one more reason to love the Helix lately.






benny z said:


> yes - they call it "paragraphic".



Yep.. The real art is how you can make a speaker, or speakers, comply to the smooth accurate shape you're after with as few adjustments as possible. On this last tune, individual drivers have maybe 5 to 8 adjustments of varying Q, then pairs maybe 2 tops just where summing induces slight response change from either minute acoustic phase anomaly or simply car reflected stuff. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dengland

miniSQ said:


> whenever you save a set up, the computer allows you to choose where it is saved too. Default is in the application folder, but you can save them anywhere you like. Where did you choose to save them? Thats where they are


Dang ... I still cannot see them with File Explorer. If I start PC-Tool in demo mode on the legacy computer, I can see them in the 4.09 directory if click on "open DSP Profile" ... very strange. I must have something misconfigured in file explorer and it is masking them or not indexing them.

Thanks. I wanted to make sure it was operator error before I beat my head against the wall. I will try again tomorrow.


----------



## bbfoto

dengland said:


> Dang ... I still cannot see them with File Explorer. If I start PC-Tool in demo mode on the legacy computer, I can see them in the 4.09 directory if click on "open DSP Profile" ... very strange. I must have something misconfigured in file explorer and it is masking them or not indexing them.
> 
> Thanks. I wanted to make sure it was operator error before I beat my head against the wall. I will try again tomorrow.


I think you need to enable "Show Hidden Files" in Explorer if that isn't already enabled.


----------



## Babs

Question.. What is this for?










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Lanson

This was one posted page back



mathematics said:


> It's used to level match different sources such as CD and Toslink so they play At the same volume. It will boost the signal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





jbeez said:


> Does anyone know what "source volume control" is in the pc-tool software? It's under the DCM button, then PC-Tool Configuration Tab, its on the top right. I tried searching online and through the tuning manuals Helix has posted but I don't even see it in their screenshots in there.





Babs said:


> Question.. What is this for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## XR250rdr

Babs said:


> Question.. What is this for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





XR250rdr said:


> It adds level adjustment to IO menu


See pic


----------



## XR250rdr

fourthmeal said:


> ahh....sound again! That's better.
> 
> Next up, to get my Umik-1 to recognize the V Eight.


I've gotten mine to work with the V3 software, but couldn't import a calibration file though.


----------



## Babs

XR250rdr said:


> See pic



Ah that's right.. Turns that level control on/off on IO screen. I'm getting old.. I'll probably ask this again in six months or so. 

Now if I can get it dialed in to run analog from Sony or coax from Fiio X5ii via the button on the URC remote, or auto sense either.. Thought at one time I heard bleed over from analog side when I did auto-signal-sensing once but will try it again. That was on the old 8ch DSP. Got a Pro-2 now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## percy072

Babs said:


> The Helix channels are 31-bands of graphic yes but also fully parametric. Tap on the header to the right where your frequency band snd Q Are bottom right. You can assign any band to any frequency fully parametric. And first and last bands to a shelf filter and now all kinds of all pass filter if your DSP will run V4 Helix tool.
> 
> Example: I could go to one of the first bands I think 32hz maybe it is, select it to be parametric, assign it to 4758hz with a Q of 1 or 15 or anywhere in between.


...I'm realizing just how much more tuning "horse power" the Helix has to offer!! I've always just used the Fine EQ with good results but this has opened a whole new world of possibilities that I wasn't taking advantage of!! 

I've seen the Shelf EQ option but admittedly had no idea what to use it for...lol. Also got real tired of playing "whack-A-mole" using the Fine EQ on problem peaks but with the Parametric EQ I can dial right on them. 

All this time...had no idea (face palm) lol


----------



## Babs

percy072 said:


> ...I'm realizing just how much more tuning "horse power" the Helix has to offer!! I've always just used the Fine EQ with good results but this has opened a whole new world of possibilities that I wasn't taking advantage of!!
> 
> I've seen the Shelf EQ option but admittedly had no idea what to use it for...lol. Also got real tired of playing "whack-A-mole" using the Fine EQ on problem peaks but with the Parametric EQ I can dial right on them.
> 
> All this time...had no idea (face palm) lol


I know right! After the NCSQ meet when I have time, I want to throw a little fun challenge to it and do a tune solely using the Helix RTA, rather than Room EQ Wizard, since they upgraded the RTA resolution. Nice features added now. I think 1/6 octave resolution would be fine, plus a customizable curve.. And you can see your acoustic RTA plot on the main screen with the electrical EQ plots.

Guys download these for casual reading.. I still refer back to them. The v3 edition is the latest.. v4 hasn't been added, but most of volume 2 (v3) is still valid, though some stuff will be different in v4, the basic principles are likely the same.

Sound Tuning Magazine DSP PC-Tool, Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio


----------



## dengland

bbfoto said:


> I think you need to enable "Show Hidden Files" in Explorer if that isn't already enabled.


Thanks. 
Never got there. Show Hidden files was enabled. I even toggled it. I give up on the old laptop.

I can see the file for the config I made on the new laptop using file explorer. So, I know I should see them on the old laptop as well. Nothing earthshattering in those files.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Telly_Tilt

I hate the dark skin on the pc tool software.

Where can I change the skin to something more visible?

Thanks.


----------



## moparman79

Here is some videos for setup for the helix processors 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFVLAslJKc8


----------



## t3sn4f2

Telly_Tilt said:


> I hate the dark skin on the pc tool software.
> 
> Where can I change the skin to something more visible?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## Telly_Tilt

t3sn4f2 said:


>



:laugh::laugh:


ha ha ha.... yeah I thought about that after I read it after it posted! :surprised:


----------



## Telly_Tilt

customaudioman said:


> Here is some videos for setup for the helix processors
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFVLAslJKc8



Thank you!


:2thumbsup:


----------



## Telly_Tilt

I have the DSP pro 10 channel and I have (1) 10 inch ported subwoofer in my truck and here's my question...

Since I have a left and a right signal going to my sub amp, I have (2) sub outputs in my I/O screen and it seems to play just fine but I am wondering is both outputs necessary or do I need just the 1 sub out with the 50/50 input setup?

Below is what my I/O screen looks like.

Thanks.


----------



## BlackHHR

Telly_Tilt said:


> I have the DSP pro 10 channel and I have (1) 10 inch ported subwoofer in my truck and here's my question...
> 
> Since I have a left and a right signal going to my sub amp, I have (2) sub outputs in my I/O screen and it seems to play just fine but I am wondering is both outputs necessary or do I need just the 1 sub out with the 50/50 input setup?
> 
> Below is what my I/O screen looks like.
> 
> Thanks.


I generally set up the same way you have in the picture. Also I use a pair of RCA cables (left/right) out of the processor and into the amp if possible. 

Either way is fine, a single channel assignment @ 50/50 with a y adapter or the way you have it with a pair of rca cables. 

What input is your sub amp ? Mono in (single RCA) or does it have left/right inputs ?


----------



## Telly_Tilt

BlackHHR said:


> I generally set up the same way you have in the picture. Also I use a pair of RCA cables (left/right) out of the processor and into the amp if possible.
> 
> Either way is fine, a single channel assignment @ 50/50 with a y adapter or the way you have it with a pair of rca cables.
> 
> What input is your sub amp ? Mono in (single RCA) or does it have left/right inputs ?


Thanks BlackHHR for your reply.

My sub amp _is_ mono but it still has left/right RCA inputs.

From my head unit I used to have (3) sets of RCAs going to my amps (front, rear and sub).

Since I installed the DSP last week, I'm only using one RCA cable, using the front out of the HU, and going into the DSP. From the DSP out, I have (4) sets of RCAs. (3) going to my JL Audio 6 channel amp for my 3 ways and the other set goes to my JL Audio 500W mono block amp that's bridged to the one 10 inch sub.

Thanks.


----------



## Lanson

Single out is what I'm doing, cuts down on RCA cables running around.


----------



## m7olb

when using the hd usb interface , do i still need to connect my amplifiers though rca inputs ?


----------



## Babs

Just to let ya'll know.. The service/support I've gotten recently with my Pro-2.. Other DSP companies would have a huge pair of shoes to fill.. The guys at HAT have really taken care of this customer. There's no other brand I'd consider for DSP's that I'd be as confident in post-sale support. The support I've gotten recently from Greg and Jo at HAT, and Julian at AF is world-class, and I don't say that lightly. Just a little shout out.


----------



## Souths1der

I have a mono channel for my sub on a 5 channel amp, but it takes 2 RCA's. So on my Helix pro I'm using 2 output channels, one I have left channel only, the other right channel only. I see above you sending left and right to both channels. Am I losing response doing it my way? Is it just outright wrong?

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez

Does this​ sound right.... I have ipad mini 4-> apple cck -> usb dac -> toslink in helix dsp.

Since im going from iPad with lightning to a dac outputting toslink optical, its probably not doing any conversation of the signal to analog right?

When i was setting my levels/gains I tested the outputs of the helix using an smd dd1+ and their supplied tracks in itunes, played a 40hz 0db signal. On my rca outs for sub i had to turn it down in helix software to -1dB before it would stop detecting distortion. Is that right?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## t3sn4f2

jbeez said:


> *Does this​ sound right.... I have ipad mini 4-> apple cck -> usb dac -> toslink in helix dsp.
> 
> Since im going from iPad with lightning to a dac outputting toslink optical, its probably not doing any conversation of the signal to analog right?*
> 
> When i was setting my levels/gains I tested the outputs of the helix using an smd dd1+ and their supplied tracks in itunes, played a 40hz 0db signal. On my rca outs for sub i had to turn it down in helix software to -1dB before it would stop detecting distortion. Is that right?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Looks right, but make sure you use the "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" so that you can charge the iPad at the same time.

No, there is no conversion to analog before the DSP, in that type of setup.


----------



## jbeez

t3sn4f2 said:


> Looks right, but make sure you use the "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" so that you can charge the iPad at the same time.
> 
> No, there is no conversion to analog before the DSP, in that type of setup.


Yup, I have the usb3 ver. I hardwired a usb port under my dash that comes on with the car, and my dac is under there and the cck, using a lightning extension cable. Only minor issue is the iPad will complain about powering the dac when i turn the car off. It seems to still work fine when i start the car. Not sure if the dac is then draining ipad battery or if i should be unplugging the ipads lightning cable.

I really need to come up with a more permanent bracket solution for my director remote and ipad. Using hard velcro for remote and a cd slot mount for the ipad.
















Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## t3sn4f2

Yeah, it probably is eating up the battery a little, but maybe only until the iPad goes into sleep mode completely. I'd say try to do a battery drain time comparison with and without the dongles plugged in, but the drain might be so small it might not distinguish itself from regular iPad battery use discrepancies. Try giving the company a call.


----------



## subterFUSE

Helix DSP software version 4.10c available today.

V4 software now works on the Helix DSP 8 channel.


----------



## XR250rdr

aww yiss finally supports DSPv1


----------



## Hammer1

jbeez said:


> Yup, I have the usb3 ver. I hardwired a usb port under my dash that comes on with the car, and my dac is under there and the cck, using a lightning extension cable. Only minor issue is the iPad will complain about powering the dac when i turn the car off. It seems to still work fine when i start the car. Not sure if the dac is then draining ipad battery or if i should be unplugging the ipads lightning cable.
> 
> I really need to come up with a more permanent bracket solution for my director remote and ipad. Using hard velcro for remote and a cd slot mount for the ipad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


To stop battery drain issues with iPad put a relay in on the USB to dac just cut the red wire in the USB cable that is for power and splice in a relay and power the relay to come on with ignition


----------



## jbeez

Hammer1 said:


> To stop battery drain issues with iPad put a relay in on the USB to dac just cut the red wire in the USB cable that is for power and splice in a relay and power the relay to come on with ignition


Great idea I can make one ahead of time and just swap those out

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## almatias

Does anyone have a solution to connect the Helix DSP PRO in steering wheel control?
It is possible?


----------



## Silvercoat

almatias said:


> Does anyone have a solution to connect the Helix DSP PRO in steering wheel control?
> It is possible?


This would be great if they had a steering wheel control interface.

I assume you want VOL control as I do not see anything else being useful.

I know there is a thread on "How to make your own controller for Helix/Brax DSPs"

In theory, you need to take your steering wheel controls (which will be CAN or resistive hopefully) and convert them to pulsed output which matches how a potentiometer would output.

I think this could be done with an Arduino or other microcontroller. Maybe even a Joycon > Arduino



What I would like to know is if the Helix can take volume control over the HD USB card from a tablet or Android device with USB audio output.


----------



## subterFUSE

The volume on the USB device does still work with the HEC module. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez

Hammer1 said:


> To stop battery drain issues with iPad put a relay in on the USB to dac just cut the red wire in the USB cable that is for power and splice in a relay and power the relay to come on with ignition


Well I made that cable, but I won't be needing it.

I did have a weird turnoff pop issue going from optical to usb. I think it has to do with my front/rear battery bank being disconnected via relay and my cam connection kit was powered by the front and everything else by the back batteries. Ran a single power wire up front and working as expected now









Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## dsquared

Have the HEC module installed and working with my iphone.
Sounds great but cuts off after 6-7 seconds. I'm using the high level ins to if it really matters to know.
Also notice that upon startup I have a message on the direct that states no software loaded or it's not connected.
So I just go to another sound set up and push the dial and it launches, no problem but I should not have to do this correct?
Any help for above issues?


----------



## subterFUSE

dsquared said:


> Have the HEC module installed and working with my iphone.
> 
> Sounds great but cuts off after 6-7 seconds. I'm using the high level ins to if it really matters to know.
> 
> Also notice that upon startup I have a message on the direct that states no software loaded or it's not connected.
> 
> So I just go to another sound set up and push the dial and it launches, no problem but I should not have to do this correct?
> 
> Any help for above issues?




In software is HEC module set for Full Res or High Res? Use High for best compatibility.

Check the signal detection for which source has priority, or better yet set for manual switching.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dsquared

Will have to check the resolution but do know that HEC has priority. Was advised in that direction. Seems like a simple thing. Hopefully this is it. 
Will let you know and thanks for your reply


----------



## dsquared

All seems to be working well now except that every once in a while upon startup, I get this screen" NO DSP OPERATING SOFTWARE LOADED
PLEASE UPDATE THE DSP OS
`RETRY
So I hit the retry button, I guess it reloads and everything is good.
Any reason this happens randomly?

Also, how would I lock the HEC/AUX volume so I don't have to fool with it every time?


----------



## hykbooks

greetings 

I have a helix p six dsp and i really need help in tuning it, and I really appreciate if anyone can help me sending their setup for a 2 way and a sub setup and I will take it from there to fine tune as I am really have a bad experience trying to tune it

my car is a toyota rav 4

tweeter: hybrid audio l1pro
woofer: heretz mille 1600 ml woofer
sub : arc audio in a non ported enclose

please please anyone send me your 2 way setup 

best regards


----------



## miniSQ

hykbooks said:


> greetings
> 
> I have a helix p six dsp and i really need help in tuning it, and I really appreciate if anyone can help me sending their setup for a 2 way and a sub setup and I will take it from there to fine tune as I am really have a bad experience trying to tune it
> 
> my car is a toyota rav 4
> 
> tweeter: hybrid audio l1pro
> woofer: heretz mille 1600 ml woofer
> sub : arc audio in a non ported enclose
> 
> please please anyone send me your 2 way setup
> 
> best regards


I can send you my set up for my Helix DSP....just not sure if it is the same as the P six DSP. Probably is not.

What specific are you having issues with? I/o? Xo?


----------



## hykbooks

miniSQ said:


> I can send you my set up for my Helix DSP....just not sure if it is the same as the P six DSP. Probably is not.
> 
> What specific are you having issues with? I/o? Xo?


To be honest I have more issues with mids and highs than anything, I really wish if someone can send me there setup and I take it from there in fine tuning as I am really not achieving a good sound at all, where mids are thin and highs are piercing


----------



## miniSQ

hykbooks said:


> To be honest I have more issues with mids and highs than anything, I really wish if someone can send me there setup and I take it from there in fine tuning as I am really not achieving a good sound at all, where mids are thin and highs are piercing


sounds more like a gain setting problem. Turn your tweeter levels down until they don't overpower your mids.


----------



## hykbooks

miniSQ said:


> sounds more like a gain setting problem. Turn your tweeter levels down until they don't overpower your mids.


its not that the tweeters are overpowering at all as I used to eq it way down as i am sensitive to sibilence 
Its mainly the mids and I tried to boost the 500 hz region to add body t the mids but everything sounds just bad, and boosted the woofer by 3db compared to tweeters and sub

so if anyone can send me there setup and i will take it from there to compare and then if it sounds good I will fine tune


----------



## Telly_Tilt

hykbooks said:


> its not that the tweeters are overpowering at all as I used to eq it way down as i am sensitive to sibilence
> Its mainly the mids and I tried to boost the 500 hz region to add body t the mids but everything sounds just bad, and boosted the woofer by 3db compared to tweeters and sub
> 
> so if anyone can send me there setup and i will take it from there to compare and then if it sounds good I will fine tune


I'm new to signal processors and with all of the bands on the EQs for each channel is a bit overwhelming for me because with all of those bands and options, it seemed almost impossible to adjust them by ear.

At lease for EQ adjustments, Room EQ Wizard and a good house curve sets my EQs to a VERY good starting point!

Trying to set the EQs by ear to me is like randomly going thru different combinations to a safe expecting it to open.

SkizeR has a video that can get your started in the right direction.

DSP Tuning Using REW. A Basic Starters Guide


----------



## miniSQ

hykbooks said:


> its not that the tweeters are overpowering at all as I used to eq it way down as i am sensitive to sibilence
> Its mainly the mids and I tried to boost the 500 hz region to add body t the mids but everything sounds just bad, and boosted the woofer by 3db compared to tweeters and sub
> 
> so if anyone can send me there setup and i will take it from there to compare and then if it sounds good I will fine tune


someone else's EQ settings wont be relevant to your set up.

what drivers are you using and what are the XO points and slopes? Type?


----------



## hykbooks

miniSQ said:


> someone else's EQ settings wont be relevant to your set up.
> 
> what drivers are you using and what are the XO points and slopes? Type?


i am using hybrid audio l1pro as tweeters 
hertz mille 1600 ml as woofers
arc audio subwoofer in a closed box

i think if i will ask for anyone's setting that i what them to totally not in relation to how i set up mine to be able to compare

i know that someones else's setup would not be an ideal setup to use but u never know and things always can be surprising


----------



## lasakro

My new DSP.2 is my first DSP so sorry for my simplistic phase question. My subs, woofers and rear fill are off. I only have my front mids and tweeters playing and the 2 are passively crossed with a 12db/oct. slope. I've been able to achieve a very nice curve using the Helix V4 RTA software. Next I've gone into Time and got a bit confused. I'm used to the simplistic check of swapping the leads on a driver set and hearing which way plays louder to determine if left and right are in phase, louder being in phase.

With both, L & R (or A & B), still set at 0 deg I pressed the polarity button on just one side and my sound stage dramatically widened. Almost surround sound so maybe my stage also got closer as it widened. It's hard to tell at 50. I don't get any volume change. I may have gotten one of my high level inputs swapped somewhere coming from the factory amp but I really don't think so. Is the correct to go with the dramatically widened sound stage? I hope so and if that's and case I want to go back through the install and find out where I got it wrong. Thanks.


----------



## subterFUSE

When you clicked that polarity invert and your soundstage got wider and surround sound like, that's out of phase. Go back to the way it was.


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## lasakro

subterFUSE said:


> Go back to the way it was.


I'm glad someone followed all that  I'll go back and glad I don't have to go look for wiring problem.


----------



## lasakro

I just connected my new URC.3 to my DSP.2. I have my Mode Switch set as my Setup Switch. I saved my preset from #1 to #2. After starting the software, with my Mode Switch set to Preset 1 or Preset 2, and select to load preset #2 (Which says Ready) the software toggles between "Starting Communication" and "Switching Setup". I've let it go for about 5 minutes but never loads. Any thoughts whats wrong?

Using DSP PC-Tool Version 4


----------



## ARCuhTEK

Observation and question about the Helix Director remote control:

My memory is foggy here, but when I had the Audison Bit One DSP, I could control the volume of the system entirely by using the DRC remote. I seem to remember being able to turn the dial down until the volume was completely muted. 

Now I have the Director and I cannot turn the volume of the system down until it is fully muted. When I turn the dial all the way down (horizontal red bar for main volume) my system is still playing at a fairly high volume. FYI: My HU is a Pioneer 4200NEX and the master HU volume is at 30 of 40. So to me it sounds like when the Director main volume is zero, the speakers are playing as if they are not being amplified and at the HU volume of 30 out of 40. Another way to say the same thing is: When the Director is turned all the way down, it seems as though the system is playing as if the DSP and amplifiers were not in the signal path.

Is this normal for the Helix DSP Pro Mk2 used with the Director?

Yes the director does have mute function and it does work, but that is not part of what I am trying to sort out.

Thanks,
Kevin


----------



## drsaab

Mine goes completely silent with the director at zero and the analog head unit at full volume. 


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## drsaab

But I have a helix director mated to the p six mk 11 so it may be different. 


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## nadams5755

Clicking the knob on the director should mute it?


----------



## benny z

v4.20 has been released.


----------



## Lanson

Awesome! For V-Eight too?


----------



## ARCuhTEK

nadams5755 said:


> Clicking the knob on the director should mute it?


It does not mute it totally but it does attenuate it. I did find the issue and it has nothing to do with my system or its equipment. Lets just say it was a brain fart....that I did not think through at the moment. To elaborate, I intentionally have my OEM rear speakers set up, directly to the HU wiring harness. I have the fader on the HU set to almost full front setting. There is no DSP or amplification in this signal path. Additionally, I have a small center channel speaker, again also wired directly to the HU with no DSP or amp in the signal path. I rarely use this center channel speaker as it is ONLY intended to be used when the cell phone is utilizing bluetooth during cell phone conversations. This is because of my hearing (I like having a speaker very near my right ear due to my hearing disability). So when I get a cell phone call, I mute all speakers EXCEPT the center channel. The center channel speaker is mono, full range and can be turned off with a relay switch. It is mounted in the ceiling on my truck just above my right ear.

Anyway, in order to mute the entire system I MUST use the HU mute feature. On the Pioneer 4200 NEX the mute button is very nicely located front and almost center of the buttons along the face. I can also turn the relay off and have ONLY rear fill playing.

Muting the Director, silences everything EXCEPT the center channel and the rears speakers.

So as you might imagine, when the HU volume is at 30 of 40 and I mute the director, the rear speakers are playing pretty loud, but nothing compared to the whole system jamming. 

In the heat of moment the other day, I had forgotten and left the center channel on (relay switch on) and also forgotten the rear fill was on, which made the system especially high volume when I muted the Director. I used the analog knob on the director to turn the volume all the way off. I RARELY use this knob for muting, choosing to use the HU mute button instead. I guess I just had the brain fart and was like WTF is my volume only muting half way?

So....the truth is, everything is working precisely the way I designed it al to function....except my brain at that moment.

FYI, if I want to dial in the system with only the drivers in the path of the DSP, my 4200NEX has a "rear speakers off" function.

The truth is, it all works very well to my liking... I just need to pay attention in my frustrated troubleshooting.

Thanks for everyone's help. Sorry for the goose chase.


----------



## benny z

Director update 1.7 now also available - and required if using w/ the new 4.20 software.

If you are updating - DISCONNECT the Director from the processor and update it separately - without it being connected to the proc. Idk if it's changed, but with previous updates it's very easy to temporarily brick the Director if you update it while connected to the processor.


----------



## gumbeelee

On the new software it says u can now automatically import directly from rew, anyone did this yet?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bnae38

Ooo new software


----------



## dengland

gumbeelee said:


> On the new software it says u can now automatically import directly from rew, anyone did this yet?


I have loaded the new software on my desktop and started in Demo mode. Nothing is obvious to me on how to use info from REW.

I have gotten in trouble before being an early adopter with this software (and the Director), so I am a bit conservative now.


----------



## gumbeelee

I have downloaded new software and I am messing with it. Will someone please explain to me on the io screen where the aux/hec routing and digital routing page are. Am i just looking over it or what? Or are they just using the one main routing?


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----------



## Babs

benny z said:


> Director update 1.7 now also available - and required if using w/ the new 4.20 software.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are updating - DISCONNECT the Director from the processor and update it separately - without it being connected to the proc. Idk if it's changed, but with previous updates it's very easy to temporarily brick the Director if you update it while connected to the processor.



No power on the Director if I unplug data from the DSP. ????

I updated director which went fine while connected. However oddly after updating the pro-2, it won't let me save to banks except 1 or 3 oddly. ???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## gumbeelee

Babs said:


> No power on the Director if I unplug data from the DSP. ????
> 
> I updated director which went fine while connected. However oddly after updating the pro-2, it won't let me save to banks except 1 or 3 oddly. ???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




For some reason on the last update i was never ever able to save to bank 3


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----------



## gumbeelee

Babs said:


> No power on the Director if I unplug data from the DSP. ????
> 
> I updated director which went fine while connected. However oddly after updating the pro-2, it won't let me save to banks except 1 or 3 oddly. ???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




U should still have power to director if unplugged from dsp


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dengland

Babs said:


> No power on the Director if I unplug data from the DSP. ????





gumbeelee said:


> U should still have power to director if unplugged from dsp


I think it would depend on the which end of the Director cable you disconnected. Connector at the back of the Director has power in it. Circular end at the DSP does not have power. Power and ground break out if memory serves me.


----------



## dengland

Babs said:


> No power on the Director if I unplug data from the DSP. ????
> 
> I updated director which went fine while connected. However oddly after updating the pro-2, it won't let me save to banks except 1 or 3 oddly. ???



From the 4.20a Release notes:
If the DSP PC-Tool Version 4.20a is used with upcoming DIRECTOR Update V1.70 *the second, device internal memory slot will be deactivated as long as the DIRECTOR is connected to the DSP.* This is necessary to fully avoid incompatibilities during the saving and switching process to the second memory slot. As soon as the DIRECTOR is disconnected and the DSPs USB port is used the second memory slot is activated again. This change reduces the total usable memory slot in combination with the DIRECTOR to 21 instead of the primary 22 slots. The second memory slot will be skipped automatically in the upcoming DIRECTOR Update V1.70.


----------



## benny z

Read the release notes. Position 2 is disabled purposefully


----------



## gumbeelee

gumbeelee said:


> I have downloaded new software and I am messing with it. Will someone please explain to me on the io screen where the aux/hec routing and digital routing page are. Am i just looking over it or what? Or are they just using the one main routing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Can anyone answer this


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## gumbeelee

Its pretty cool now you can put your on screen saver image on the director!!!


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## gumbeelee

gumbeelee said:


> Can anyone answer this
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Nevermind guys the hex/aux routing and digital routing is on my screen today...thats crazy was not there the last two days, very strange, glad it back...lol


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## SkizeR

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ew-filter-sets-into-helix-v4-20-software.html


----------



## Davidkelly

lasakro said:


> I just connected my new URC.3 to my DSP.2. I have my Mode Switch set as my Setup Switch. I saved my preset from #1 to #2. After starting the software, with my Mode Switch set to Preset 1 or Preset 2, and select to load preset #2 (Which says Ready) the software toggles between "Starting Communication" and "Switching Setup". I've let it go for about 5 minutes but never loads. Any thoughts whats wrong?
> 
> Using DSP PC-Tool Version 4


Did you find a solution to this problem yet? .I have
Exactly the same problem after the software upgrade,so frustrated right now.

Anyone have a sugestión?.


----------



## dcfis

Has anyone successfully used parallels to tune the helix on a Mac? If not, what's the least power requirements on a Windows machine. I haven't had one in a decade and don't know what the minimal(cheapest) parameters the pc would need.


----------



## subterFUSE

dcfis said:


> Has anyone successfully used parallels to tune the helix on a Mac? If not, what's the least power requirements on a Windows machine. I haven't had one in a decade and don't know what the minimal(cheapest) parameters the pc would need.




I use Macs for tuning. I just use boot camp with Windows. Works great.


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----------



## bnae38

Davidkelly said:


> Did you find a solution to this problem yet? .I have
> Exactly the same problem after the software upgrade,so frustrated right now.
> 
> Anyone have a sugestión?.



Noticed the same with my homemade remote, doesn't seem to toggle presets.. dsp.2 here as well. I just don't use the toggle switch... hopefully they figure it out.. ??


----------



## dcfis

subterFUSE said:


> I use Macs for tuning. I just use boot camp with Windows. Works great.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, will look into it. Which version of Windows is proven to work?


----------



## subterFUSE

dcfis said:


> Thanks, will look into it. Which version of Windows is proven to work?




I use both 7 and 10 without issues. But 7 is the best, generally speaking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dcfis

OK Loading and saving is a bit confusing to me.

- When you connect and click slot 1 it shows what is on slot 1 currently? 

-When you "load" a file and it does the 100% countdown bar that new map/file is loaded right?

- Whats most confusing is if you try and quit the program it says nothing is saved so you click on the map/file you already chose when loading and it says this file already exists do you want to replace it?


----------



## Brules

Looking for some help with a P Six Mk II.

Everytime I shut the car off and back on - the digital volume on mhy director is back at like -25db and i have to turn it back up to 0.

Any tips on how to get it to stay?


----------



## toneloc2

Brules said:


> Looking for some help with a P Six Mk II.
> 
> Everytime I shut the car off and back on - the digital volume on mhy director is back at like -25db and i have to turn it back up to 0.
> 
> Any tips on how to get it to stay?


did you go into director volume menu and change it to 0DB


----------



## Brules

Trying to find it now lol.

I am going to have to find a local pro and have some lessons lol. This thing is legit complex, but wow - the interface is well done/powerful.


----------



## rsjaurr

I just installed the Helix P six DSP with USB HEC and latest DSP tool software last Sunday. I'm yet to use its optical and USB inputs and playing CDs through stock HU. URC3 is also connected to P six DSP.

Although everything seems to be working fine as of now but I want to be absolutely sure before I try digital source, most likely a DAP. I have active 3 way connected to Helix and a sub powered by dedicated amp.

Need a help on how should I set up DCM and IO section? I have attached pics also if somebody can point out any problem?


----------



## BlackHHR

Have you tried to call tech support ? I am sure someone that is handling tech support for Helix now can help with the set up. 
I/O section is drag and drop. Select your inputs and assign the to the out put section. Pretty straight forward with a good tech on the phone.


----------



## rsjaurr

BlackHHR said:


> Have you tried to call tech support ? I am sure someone that is handling tech support for Helix now can help with the set up.
> I/O section is drag and drop. Select your inputs and assign the to the out put section. Pretty straight forward with a good tech on the phone.


I am from India and this amp was bought last year from classified section. I doubt if they have their presence here. They had in the past though.

I also had P DSP in 2012-13 but have forgotten few things. Going through manual and sound magazine was helpful though but still needs to be sure.

BTW stock HU's four speaker outputs, front and rear two each, are connected to high level inputs of P6DSP


----------



## dsquared

Here are a few things that I'm getting kinda sick of with my unit. Maybe somebody experienced the same issues and can help with a permanent solution.
1. From the get go after loading the director and dsp, a few weeks would go by where the director would just fade out, the music would momentarily stop with a message on the director that it lost connection. Then start back up and play , cut out randomly , start back up and so on.

2. director doesn't connect when car is started and starts in demo mode.
The only way I seemed to fix these issues was to clear out the director and dsp and reload the software. It's good to go for a few weeks and then it starts over again.

I'd blame it on the crappy connection on the dsp that the director plugs into but these conditions were like I said from the get go and the unit was new.


----------



## optimizer

just got a new car (2014 ford taurus SEL with the 8 inch touchscreen) and its seeming impossible to switch out the HU, fine whatever. i'm planning more of an sq build since my last system was just a banger. i'm going to run the factory signal to a dsp, helix is what i'm planning, may end up changing it though. my question relating to this thread though is, where do i buy the helix dsp? they list on amazon but there's no inventory, none of my usual audio websites carry them, and the company doesn't really list any info on where i can get one.


----------



## drop1

optimizer said:


> just got a new car (2014 ford taurus SEL with the 8 inch touchscreen) and its seeming impossible to switch out the HU, fine whatever. i'm planning more of an sq build since my last system was just a banger. i'm going to run the factory signal to a dsp, helix is what i'm planning, may end up changing it though. my question relating to this thread though is, where do i buy the helix dsp? they list on amazon but there's no inventory, none of my usual audio websites carry them, and the company doesn't really list any info on where i can get one.


I found a local shop. Well, an hour away. Helix dsp pro 2 for $600 from a brick and mortar store was a no brainer for me. Talk to your shops if there any. If they dont have what you want see if they can get it or knows a shop that can. The shop I used actually bought it for me from another shop and didn't mark it up. I love my local store!


----------



## SkizeR

optimizer said:


> just got a new car (2014 ford taurus SEL with the 8 inch touchscreen) and its seeming impossible to switch out the HU, fine whatever. i'm planning more of an sq build since my last system was just a banger. i'm going to run the factory signal to a dsp, helix is what i'm planning, may end up changing it though. my question relating to this thread though is, where do i buy the helix dsp? they list on amazon but there's no inventory, none of my usual audio websites carry them, and the company doesn't really list any info on where i can get one.


Where are you located? I can help you locate your local dealer 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## optimizer

i'm in florida


----------



## SkizeR

optimizer said:


> i'm in florida


what city?


----------



## ChaseUTB

SkizeR said:


> what city?


I am Atlanta ga and am looking for helix dsp ! What are the current models available for 3 way active plus two sub? Noob question : does each sub need a dsp channel output or is only one channel needed for two subs? 

Thanks,
Chase


----------



## miniSQ

ChaseUTB said:


> I am Atlanta ga and am looking for helix dsp ! What are the current models available for 3 way active plus two sub? Noob question : does each sub need a dsp channel output or is only one channel needed for two subs?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chase


you only need to use a single dsp channel for sub output. Then you will have to deal with that output downstream at the amp to determine if you need a splitter into your amp or not. Each amp is different.


----------



## SkizeR

ChaseUTB said:


> I am Atlanta ga and am looking for helix dsp ! What are the current models available for 3 way active plus two sub? Noob question : does each sub need a dsp channel output or is only one channel needed for two subs?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chase


I dont know of any in Georgia anymore unfortunately. You could do the dsp.2 or dsp pro mk2

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## ChaseUTB

miniSQ said:


> you only need to use a single dsp channel for sub output. Then you will have to deal with that output downstream at the amp to determine if you need a splitter into your amp or not. Each amp is different.


A y splitter seems so bad to me... is this standard practice if only one set of rca inputs on amp? I am looking at Zapco z-2/3KD II or Rockford Fosgate T1500 bdcp sub amps and AF GB 12’s or 12 W7’s for subs. Thanks


----------



## miniSQ

ChaseUTB said:


> A y splitter seems so bad to me... is this standard practice if only one set of rca inputs on amp? I am looking at Zapco z-2/3KD II or Rockford Fosgate T1500 bdcp sub amps and AF GB 12’s or 12 W7’s for subs. Thanks


it depends on the amp...some amps do it internally, and some require a y connector to get the proper input voltage.

How come you can't run 2 channels out of the Helix?


----------



## ChaseUTB

miniSQ said:


> it depends on the amp...some amps do it internally, and some require a y connector to get the proper input voltage.
> 
> How come you can't run 2 channels out of the Helix?


That’s what I want to do, use 2 channels for subs, one dsp output channel per subwoofer. This is my first full active system so some things are new to me


----------



## SkizeR

miniSQ said:


> How come you can't run 2 channels out of the Helix?


you can.. just link the 2 channels


----------



## miniSQ

SkizeR said:


> you can.. just link the 2 channels


Yes, I meant to say it differently. 

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## adrian s

Is the helix software compatible with windows 10 S mode?


----------



## Kyleo91

adrian s said:


> Is the helix software compatible with windows 10 S mode?


I would say no, been looking for a new laptop as mine **** the bed and was looking at some devices with the windows 10 S pretty sure the windows 10S just able to download software from the windows store. Also depending on what your device is being used for your able to convert to regular windows 10 from "S" but it's a non reversible switch. 



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## thedynoguy

so, what are the chances that the Helix software will run on a MacBook Pro running Parallels with Windows 7 Home premium 32bit? The software loads and is interactive in demo mode, but I'm not sure if it will actually see the DSP.3.


----------



## SiW80

thedynoguy said:


> so, what are the chances that the Helix software will run on a MacBook Pro running Parallels with Windows 7 Home premium 32bit? The software loads and is interactive in demo mode, but I'm not sure if it will actually see the DSP.3.



It worked on my DSP Mini 

However was a pain speed wise for running other apps on the laptop so I just bought a cheap Windows 10 tablet just for DSP and REW duties. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nadams5755

i have a 2016 13" mbp i5 3.1ghz w/ 16gb ram.

i use vmware fusion. i gave my windows 10 VM 2vcpu and 4gb ram. usb passthru for helix softwares, minidsp softwares, and omnimic softwares work great.

i find virtualbox is a bit slow but free and usb plug/unplug causes the mac to hard-lock. i moved to fusion 10 without issue.


----------



## drop1

I picked up a used 16inch win 10 laptop for $100 
It's now a dedicated tuning laptop. I have several different dsp software's on it as well as REW AMD smaart I believe. It's off line only. I download updates and move them to it with usb sticks. 
It's almost in possible to corrupt it this way and it stays smokin fast.


----------



## Pathological_quest

I have a Helix DSP Pro that will not connect to my computer. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the program and the USB drivers. I've tried different cables. Reset the Helix still no luck. The Helix was initially working and i was able to set the first round of filters. Left for work came back and now it will not connect. Any ideas how to get my computer to recognize the helix. It is a windows computer.


----------



## dcfis

What's the led status light? Are you on a real pc or virtual machine? People always say change the cable. I feel that a waste of time if it was working 20 min ago. I had a firmware update problems recently where the dsp wouldn't connect. It was solved by manually installing the aco files


----------



## Pathological_quest

I don't know what happened but it all of a sudden just connected and started working. I just left it plugged in and walked away. So now I'm about to use the RTA! Is there a specific volume the pink noise should be set at when using RTA?


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## dcfis

I used rew and the same volume every time. About where i am listening the most


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## dobslob

Pathological_quest said:


> I don't know what happened but it all of a sudden just connected and started working. I just left it plugged in and walked away. So now I'm about to use the RTA! Is there a specific volume the pink noise should be set at when using RTA?


If you are using the RTA built into the software the best bet it to adjust the level so that it is basically centered on the 0 reference line on the display. You can do that with the actual volume of by using the offset control to the right of the RTA screen.


----------



## Pathological_quest

dobslob said:


> If you are using the RTA built into the software the best bet it to adjust the level so that it is basically centered on the 0 reference line on the display. You can do that with the actual volume of by using the offset control to the right of the RTA screen.


Yeah I ended up getting it figured out. At least how to make it functional. I think I dropped the reference line to low tho because everything was pushed about -3db. The tune worked really well on my tweeters but the woofers were nothing but peaks and valleys with some really deep dips at 1250.


----------



## ChaseUTB

Installed the 4.65 & newest director version as well as the ACO, SAM etc, however my issue is w/ the software, specifically the DCM tab/ page & the director. When I check the director box, it tells me to connect my director but my director is already connected. I also unplugged the director, started the SW, checked the director box, then plugged in the director but get them same message.

I can’t get the DCM tab to recognize the director even tho the director is showing Volumes, menus, active preset, sound setups, voltage, source select etc. seems to be working.

The director is connected via control cable that plugs into the processor, constant 12 V & ground. 

I did a basic setup with USB cable to DSP and with director to pc with usb cable director said I needed ACO 10, not 0, update SW with direct USB connection to DSP. I completed that & have same issue with the DCM tab not recognizing the director. 

Will contact tech support later, but got tired of searching every helix thread, so posted here. Thanks


----------



## dobslob

ChaseUTB said:


> Installed the 4.65 & newest director version as well as the ACO, SAM etc, however my issue is w/ the software, specifically the DCM tab/ page & the director. When I check the director box, it tells me to connect my director but my director is already connected. I also unplugged the director, started the SW, checked the director box, then plugged in the director but get them same message.
> 
> I can’t get the DCM tab to recognize the director even tho the director is showing Volumes, menus, active preset, sound setups, voltage, source select etc. seems to be working.
> 
> The director is connected via control cable that plugs into the processor, constant 12 V & ground.
> 
> I did a basic setup with USB cable to DSP and with director to pc with usb cable director said I needed ACO 10, not 0, update SW with direct USB connection to DSP. I completed that & have same issue with the DCM tab not recognizing the director.
> 
> Will contact tech support later, but got tired of searching every helix thread, so posted here. Thanks


And now you got it.


----------



## ChaseUTB

dobslob said:


> And now you got it.


Thank you for your help! The Helix DSP.3 sounds so much better with basic TA & crossovers then my Hertz H8 DSP ever did with multiple full tunings!


----------



## HereticHulk

Hey All,

I just got a Helix P6 DSP MK2 and the Director today and I have a few basic install questions. The owner’s manuals are a bit confusing. 

I apologize in advance if these have already been asked.

Is the Director powered off the P6 (amp) via the circular Control Input, or does it needs it’s own power, ground and light connections? It seems silly to need a separate power supply for that when it plugs into the amp.

Also if I am using the 5 volt RCA preouts from a DEH-8*0PRS* as my source going to the P6, do I have to change any jumper settings? The manual mentions 4 volt and 8 volt jumper settings. It also doesn’t mention what the default jumper settings are. I don’t want to crack this open if I don’t have to.

Thanks All!


----------



## Frequentflyer

HereticHulk said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I just got a Helix P6 DSP MK2 and the Director today and I have a few basic install questions. The owner’s manuals are a bit confusing.
> 
> I apologize in advance if these have already been asked.
> 
> Is the Director powered off the P6 (amp) via the circular Control Input, or does it needs it’s own power, ground and light connections? It seems silly to need a separate power supply for that when it plugs into the amp.
> 
> Also if I am using the 5 volt RCA preouts from a DEH-8*0PRS* as my source going to the P6, do I have to change any jumper settings? The manual mentions 4 volt and 8 volt jumper settings. It also doesn’t mention what the default jumper settings are. I don’t want to crack this open if I don’t have to.
> 
> Thanks All!


You will have to open her up and move the jumpers to A2 and B2 depending on how many RCA outputs your HU has. A1 and B1 are factory defaults and good for 2-4v. 

Not too sure about the Director, but when I had one for a short amount of time (I never installed it and eventually sold it), I think it has a dimmer wire that wires into your dash lighting so it dims when you throw your lights on at night. Other than that, it gets power from the amp to power the screen.


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> You will have to open her up and move the jumpers to A2 and B2 depending on how many RCA outputs your HU has. A1 and B1 are factory defaults and good for 2-4v.
> 
> Not too sure about the Director, but when I had one for a short amount of time (I never installed it and eventually sold it), I think it has a dimmer wire that wires into your dash lighting so it dims when you throw your lights on at night. Other than that, it gets power from the amp to power the screen.


Thanks for the info about the jumpers. No, apparently the Director needs to be powered separately - really stupid design.

I found out there is no IOS versions for the PC Tool. Lame.

Next issue: I cannot enable the director within the PC tool. Once I select the director as the remote control option it just says "please connect the director". That as far as I got so far. I was able to update the director firmware, but that didn't help the DSP/AMP recognize the director. I made the mistake of holding down the "control" button on the amp just to get it to do something. Now the light is flashing red and I apparently wiped out the DSP OS. No instructions for reinstalling the OS anywhere.

Why is the only option to load a demo version after I chose my product (P Six DSP MK2)? I don't want a demo.

So far this product is a $1500 paper weight. Very frustrating. This entire interface is not very intuitive.


----------



## thedynoguy

I don’t know about the rest of your issues, but the pctool will run on a Mac with Parallels. I’ve got W7 running with parallels and it works fine.


----------



## HereticHulk

thedynoguy said:


> I don’t know about the rest of your issues, but the pctool will run on a Mac with Parallels. I’ve got W7 running with parallels and it works fine.


I am checking out Parallels now, thanks. But it looks like the agent PC has to up and running to have it available on the iPad? Probably just easier to continue to use it on the old PC laptop I have.

Still need to figure out how to reinstall the DSP OS. Seems stupid to allow someone to ability to wipe it out and not provide any way to reinstall it.


----------



## Frequentflyer

HereticHulk said:


> I am checking out Parallels now, thanks. But it looks like the agent PC has to up and running to have it available on the iPad? Probably just easier to continue to use it on the old PC laptop I have.
> 
> Still need to figure out how to reinstall the DSP OS. Seems stupid to allow someone to ability to wipe it out and not provide any way to reinstall it.


The manual just says it erases its memory and "Attention: After erasing the setups from memory the HELIX P SIX DSP MK2 will not reproduce any audio output.", but I don't interpret that as erasing the "DSP OS". I couldn't see them giving you the option to make the unit a paperweight. I think Demo mode means it is not connecting to the amp. Are you connecting via USB?


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> The manual just says it erases its memory and "Attention: After erasing the setups from memory the HELIX P SIX DSP MK2 will not reproduce any audio output.", but I don't interpret that as erasing the "DSP OS". I couldn't see them giving you the option to make the unit a paperweight. I think Demo mode means it is not connecting to the amp. Are you connecting via USB?


Yup, using a USB. I tried to load a previously saved version of the demo mode I had created prior to holding down the control button, but it’s still blinking red. The Director says: “No DSP operating software loaded. Please update the DSP OS.” That’s why I think i wiped out the OS, regardless of what the manual says. 

After I open the PC Tool app, it says “Starting communication”, then the only option I have is to “Start Demo” and then load the demo mode. Amp still blinks red after loading the demo mode.

The other confusing thing is, I am not even sure if I access the settings on the DSP/AMP using the PC-Tool via the Director USB or USB on the amp?


----------



## HereticHulk

HereticHulk said:


> Yup, using a USB. I tried to load a previously saved version of the demo mode I had created prior to holding down the control button, but it’s still blinking red. The Director says: “No DSP operating software loaded. Please update the DSP OS.” That’s why I think i wiped out the OS, regardless of what the manual says.
> 
> After I open the PC Tool app, it says “Starting communication”, then the only option I have is to “Start Demo” and then load the demo mode. Amp still blinks red after loading the demo mode.
> 
> The other confusing thing is, I am not even sure if I access the settings on the DSP/AMP using the PC-Tool via the Director USB or USB on the amp?


Update:

OK, after scouring the forum here, I was able to figure I needed to unplug the director prior to hooking the PC back to the amp. It appears now the director is communicating to the amp and I can now access the app via the director. 

Progress.

I am assuming with a 80 DEH PRS as my source and a full band signal to the DSP/AMP, I shouldn’t have to adjust the signal a whole lot to get it flat? It should be a matter of setting the cross overs and gain structure, then time alignment?


----------



## Frequentflyer

It should have a flat EQ curve, but you could do an input alignment (RTA) to be sure.


----------



## HereticHulk

So can anyone tell me if this IO tab looks right for a basic two-way system? I have one full band pair as my source coming from a DEH 80PRS into the DSP. I have one set of tweeters and a set of mid range woofers, and the output channels (G and H) are going to an external amplifier for a single sub. I plan on adding another pair of mid-bass woofers for a 3-way system soon. But for now...

Both L and R should be at 100% or each at 50%?









Since the 80PRS has a clean signal at maximum volume, I am not sure how I would set the gain on the amp? Theoretically, I could turn the gain all the way up without clipping, but that doesn’t seem correct.

Once the gain is set, what is next RTA or TA?


----------



## Frequentflyer

Looks good. I would select the name Subwoofer 1 in your outputs instead of Line Out 1 and 2. Just use Subwoofer 1 for both of them. 

Also, I mispoke before. The P Six doesn't feature Input Signal Analyzer. That was added to the P Eight (ACO based plateform). You probably don't need it anyway.


----------



## jtrosky

HereticHulk said:


> So can anyone tell me if this IO tab looks right for a basic two-way system? I have one full band pair as my source coming from a DEH 80PRS into the DSP. I have one set of tweeters and a set of mid range woofers, and the output channels (G and H) are going to an external amplifier for a single sub. I plan on adding another pair of mid-bass woofers for a 3-way system soon. But for now...
> 
> Both L and R should be at 100% or each at 50%?
> View attachment 273530
> 
> 
> Since the 80PRS has a clean signal at maximum volume, I am not sure how I would set the gain on the amp? Theoretically, I could turn the gain all the way up without clipping, but that doesn’t seem correct.
> 
> Once the gain is set, what is next RTA or TA?



Why do you think that you could turn your amp gains all of the way up without clipping? 

Have you actually confirmed that the the headunit signal is clean with the volume all of the way up (with an oscilloscope)? Or are those head-unit just well-known to be clean at full volume?

Once the gain is set properly on the amp, I would work set time alignment and levels - then EQ.

Do you have a particular house curve that you are going to tune towards?

EDIT: Also, the Audiofrog Tuning Guide is an _excellent_ resource when you are trying to learn how to tune. Not only does it describe the "how", it also goes into detail about the "why". Great learning tool.

https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf


----------



## HereticHulk

jtrosky said:


> Why do you think that you could turn your amp gains all of the way up without clipping?
> 
> Have you actually confirmed that the the headunit signal is clean with the volume all of the way up (with an oscilloscope)? Or are those head-unit just well-known to be clean at full volume?
> 
> Once the gain is set properly on the amp, I would work set time alignment and levels - then EQ.
> 
> Do you have a particular house curve that you are going to tune towards?
> 
> EDIT: Also, the Audiofrog Tuning Guide is an _excellent_ resource when you are trying to learn how to tune. Not only does it describe the "how", it also goes into detail about the "why". Great learning tool.
> 
> https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf


I didn't think I could turn the gain all the way up without clipping. The DEH 80PRS should be able to put out a clean/unclipped at full volume, that is what I was getting at. The problem is the amp is NOT clipping when I turn the gain all the way up.

So, going by the 80PRSs manual that the output voltage is 5 volt, I moved the jumpers to the higher voltage range on the amp, and using a 1kHz test tone at 0db, I attempted to set the gain on the amp, turned the potentiometer all the up and no clipping (per the indicator). Then I checked the source voltage with a DMM with the same 1k Hz tone at 0db and it was 3 Volts. So I put the jumpers back to the default locations and tried again - same thing. The clipping indicator doesn't turn red.

I am playing the test tone using my phone plugged in to the USB port on the HU, I also tried a CD with a 1kHz 0db tone. What is completely strange is I could faintly hear the tone coming from the amp even though no speakers are hooked up. But the tone didn't correspond with what was playing from the phone or the CD. The tracks are like a minute long, and tone would come on for like 30 seconds (during that minute) and then the tone sound would go away again.

I double checked, and I should be getting a full signal from the HU. On the HU, I am using the Standard Mode, and the rear channel pre-out, and the HP and LP crossovers slope settings are set to "Pass", volume all the up (62). I don't see a way to mute the inputs within the PC Tool app, so I don't think that's the issue. I am at a loss.


----------



## jtrosky

HereticHulk said:


> I didn't think I could turn the gain all the way up without clipping. The DEH 80PRS should be able to put out a clean/unclipped at full volume, that is what I was getting at. The problem is the amp is NOT clipping when I turn the gain all the way up.
> 
> So, going by the 80PRSs manual that the output voltage is 5 volt, I moved the jumpers to the higher voltage range on the amp, and using a 1kHz test tone at 0db, I attempted to set the gain on the amp, turned the potentiometer all the up and no clipping (per the indicator). Then I checked the source voltage with a DMM with the same 1k Hz tone at 0db and it was 3 Volts. So I put the jumpers back to the default locations and tried again - same thing. The clipping indicator doesn't turn red.
> 
> I am playing the test tone using my phone plugged in to the USB port on the HU, I also tried a CD with a 1kHz 0db tone. What is completely strange is I could faintly hear the tone coming from the amp even though no speakers are hooked up. But the tone didn't correspond with what was playing from the phone or the CD. The tracks are like a minute long, and tone would come on for like 30 seconds (during that minute) and then the tone sound would go away again.
> 
> I double checked, and I should be getting a full signal from the HU. On the HU, I am using the Standard Mode, and the rear channel pre-out, and the HP and LP crossovers slope settings are set to "Pass", volume all the up (62). I don't see a way to mute the inputs within the PC Tool app, so I don't think that's the issue. I am at a loss.


Hmm - some strange stuff going on there.... I don't think you are hearing the actual tone from the amp itself, but just some sort of high-pitched sound, which is concerning on it's own.

Did you buy this equipment brand new or used?

I think the next thing that I would try is some sort of device connected directly to the Helix RCA inputs - just to see if you get the same results (would rule out the head-unit and wiring from the head-unit). I think I would also keep the director disconnected for now until you get everything else working - basically anything you do to make the setup as "simple" as possible for troubleshooting purposes.

I have zero experience with Helix amp/DSP combos, so I'm just not familiar with them and their specific setups. I'm sure that someone with some more experience will come along to help though. 

Sorry that I wasn't very helpful....


----------



## HereticHulk

jtrosky said:


> Hmm - some strange stuff going on there.... I don't think you are hearing the actual tone from the amp itself, but just some sort of high-pitched sound, which is concerning on it's own.
> 
> Did you buy this equipment brand new or used?
> 
> I think the next thing that I would try is some sort of device connected directly to the Helix RCA inputs - just to see if you get the same results (would rule out the head-unit and wiring from the head-unit). I think I would also keep the director disconnected for now until you get everything else working - basically anything you do to make the setup as "simple" as possible for troubleshooting purposes.
> 
> I have zero experience with Helix amp/DSP combos, so I'm just not familiar with them and their specific setups. I'm sure that someone with some more experience will come along to help though.
> 
> Sorry that I wasn't very helpful....


Thanks man! I can't recall if I tried it with the director unplugged from the amp or not. Let me try that. I bought it new off of Ebay from audio_for_fun out of Poland. The seller had a 100% feedback with 3600-some transactions. I'm checking to see if he is an authorized dealer.


----------



## jtrosky

HereticHulk said:


> Thanks man! I can't recall if I tried it with the director unplugged from the amp or not. Let me try that. I bought it new off of Ebay from audio_for_fun out of Poland. The seller had a 100% feedback with 3600-some transactions. I'm checking to see if he is an authorized dealer.


Ah, OK - I bought my DSP.3 from him as well. He's a great seller, but you _do_ have to send bad equipment back to him for warranty coverage. He says he's an authorized reseller, but maybe he's just not authorized to sell in the USA or something like that. Not really sure, but I do know that they supply their own warranty cards - and you need to go through him for service.

Hopefully, it's not faulty hardware. We'll need to do some more testing to know for sure. I think hooking up a device directly to the Helix RCA inputs would help troublshoot (something like a portable CD player, for example).


----------



## SkizeR

HereticHulk said:


> Thanks man! I can't recall if I tried it with the director unplugged from the amp or not. Let me try that. I bought it new off of Ebay from audio_for_fun out of Poland. The seller had a 100% feedback with 3600-some transactions. I'm checking to see if he is an authorized dealer.


Anything from audiotec fischer on ebay is unauthorized. Anything shipped from another country is also unauthorized 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## HereticHulk

SkizeR said:


> Anything from audiotec fischer on ebay is unauthorized. Anything shipped from another country is also unauthorized
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Great. 

Any ideas why I am not getting the clipping indicator to clip in this scenario? I unplugged the director from the P Six amp. I also verified I am getting the 1kHz by hooking up a pair of headphones with an adapter to the source RCA pair. I tried again and it will not clip. Again the jumpers are set back to the factory locations. I verified I am getting sound out the speakers in the car. Is there some input mute option in the PC Tool that I am not seeing?


----------



## tjk_bail

I just installed a new Kenwood Excelon DNX997XR headunit, the old source unit was putting out 4 volts, but the new Kenwood in putting out 5 volts pre-amp. I have the Helix DSP PRO MK2. I'm using RCA low voltage inputs from Kenwood to Helix, will I need to change some jumper settings inside the Helix now because i'm pushing 5 volts to it?


----------



## HereticHulk

tjk_bail said:


> I just installed a new Kenwood Excelon DNX997XR headunit, the old source unit was putting out 4 volts, but the new Kenwood in putting out 5 volts pre-amp. I have the Helix DSP PRO MK2. I'm using RCA low voltage inputs from Kenwood to Helix, will I need to change some jumper settings inside the Helix now because i'm pushing 5 volts to it?


I would check to see what the actual voltage is with a DMM. That is what I ran into. The DEH-80PRS claims 5 volts, but mine was doing 3 volts.


----------



## tjk_bail

Okay thats good advice, but I'm not sure how to do that.... There prob is a thread somewhere on how to do it, post it here or PM me if you know of one.....


----------



## HereticHulk

tjk_bail said:


> Okay thats good advice, but I'm not sure how to do that.... There prob is a thread somewhere on how to do it, post it here or PM me if you know of one.....


I started the 1kHz test tone at 0db on the HU at full volume and took the positive lead of the DMM, touched it to the point of the RCA cable with the source signal, then took the negative lead and touched it to a ground. I used a piece of metal that the hood latch cinches to as a ground.


----------



## Frequentflyer

Stupid question, but are your RCA's connected to the same inputs you have assigned to your outputs? A and B?

Muting within the software is what you should be doing anyway so that shouldn't affect your input gain. 

Other stupid questions, the amp is on right? Green light and no fuse light?


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> Stupid question, but are your RCA's connected to the same inputs you have assigned to your outputs? A and B?
> 
> Muting within the software is what you should be doing anyway so that shouldn't affect your input gain.
> 
> Other stupid questions, the amp is on right? Green light and no fuse light?


Yup. Double checked that. Input A and Input B
I know muting the output, but I was wondering if there is an input mute somewhere or something not enabled.
Amp is on, power light is green. Status light is green,

Again, I can hear the very faint 1Hz noise coming from the amp and the signal's intensity increase as I turn the pot up. I suppose I could just use the O-Scope app I have but I'm pretty frustrated that it is not working like it should or it is a colossal user error.

ETA: I went and deleted all of the other inputs for the HEC and Digital inputs. No difference.

Doug Dobson (The Technical Support Director) from MSC America basically told me to pound sand and contact the dealer I got it from.


----------



## dobslob

I simply said that you should contact the dealer where you purchased the unit. There is a reason that we exist and a reason that we don't allow products to sold online where they can't be properly supported.

I have gone back and forth with you via email for days answering simple questions that are covered in the manual. My time is more valuable than to do that for a person who isn't even a customer of our's or one of our dealers.


----------



## HereticHulk

dobslob said:


> I simply said that you should contact the dealer where you purchased the unit. There is a reason that we exist and a reason that we don't allow products to sold online where they can't be properly supported.
> 
> I have gone back and forth with you via email for days answering simple questions that are covered in the manual. My time is more valuable than to do that for a person who isn't even a customer of our's or one of our dealers.


Whatever man. I contacted you prior to knowing he wasn’t an authorized dealer nor did I know this rule about online sellers....my bad.

I’m not looking for an existential debate, I’m looking for some technical support. If the manual was that thorough and intuitive, there wouldn’t be a need for technical support and there wouldn’t be multiple thread on this forum of people asking questions about these products. 

Where I bought it from is irrelevant, it’s still a product you should support from a technical perspective. I don’t think trying to explain this issue to someone from Poland is going to be as easy as someone who speaks our tongue.

Thanks for nothing though. Sorry for wasting your time. Peace out.


----------



## tjk_bail

HereticHulk said:


> I started the 1kHz test tone at 0db on the HU at full volume and took the positive lead of the DMM, touched it to the point of the RCA cable with the source signal, then took the negative lead and touched it to a ground. I used a piece of metal that the hood latch cinches to as a ground.



I'll give this a shot.... thanks for helping me out....... pishhhh... I gotta remove the back seat to get to the DSP, the inputs on facing down, almost pressing against the floor....


----------



## Frequentflyer

HereticHulk said:


> Whatever man. I contacted you prior to knowing he wasn’t an authorized dealer nor did I know this rule about online sellers....my bad.
> 
> I’m not looking for an existential debate, I’m looking for some technical support. If the manual was that thorough and intuitive, there wouldn’t be a need for technical support and there wouldn’t be multiple thread on this forum of people asking questions about these products.
> 
> Where I bought it from is irrelevant, it’s still a product you should support from a technical perspective. I don’t think trying to explain this issue to someone from Poland is going to be as easy as someone who speaks our tongue.
> 
> Thanks for nothing though. Sorry for wasting your time. Peace out.


There are enough people here that aren't in the industry trying to make a living who can probably (eventually) help you. There is only so much someone (you didn't pay for a service/support) can do to help out of the goodness of their hearts.

While I wouldn't say the owner's manual is the _best_ one I've ever read (it's obviously translated from German), it isn't bad. I started my install over two months ago and just finished it today. I didn't own a Audiotec-Fischer product a day in my life before this install and after lots of reading, owner's manual included, I'd have to say the process of setting the amp up to include using DSP Tool is all available here. Settings jumpers and gains for me went exactly the way the manual read. I get the clipping light just past 12 o'clock on the gain screw using default jumper settings (I am using OE HU high outputs).

When you say you are getting sound out of the speakers, do you mean the Helix is sending power to the speakers?


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> There are enough people here that aren't in the industry trying to make a living who can probably (eventually) help you. There is only so much someone (you didn't pay for a service/support) can do to help out of the goodness of their hearts.
> 
> While I wouldn't say the owner's manual is the _best_ one I've ever read (it's obviously translated from German), it isn't bad. I started my install over two months ago and just finished it today. I didn't own a Audiotec-Fischer product a day in my life before this install and after lots of reading, owner's manual included, I'd have to say the process of setting the amp up to include using DSP Tool is all available here. Settings jumpers and gains for me went exactly the way the manual read. I get the clipping light just past 12 o'clock on the gain screw using default jumper settings (I am using OE HU high outputs).
> 
> When you say you are getting sound out of the speakers, do you mean the Helix is sending power to the speakers?


Fair point. And yes it’s powering the speakers. I set the gain with my o-scope and that should be fine. I’ve contacted the seller and we’ll see what he says. 

If was asking the Audiotech dude for and had the expectation of a replacement, I’d totally understand his unwillingness to help in that regard. I bought it from an unauthorized dealer and I’ll own it. I basically ask him if I was missing anything obvious after telling him what I had going on. Meh. Moving on.


----------



## HereticHulk

This thing is knocking me down and taking my lunch money. 

Anyone know why the RTA cuts off at around 8k Hz? I am playing the sub and channel A, which is a tweeter, along with uncorrelated pink noise. I can hear I am getting above 8k Hz out of the tweeters and I played a tone higher than where this RTA cuts off to ensure I am not crazy and I can hear it perfectly clear. I tried two different mics. Using primarily a Dayton Audio iMM-6









Here are the settings for this channel:









Bonus points if anyone call tell me what the "to band" and "from band" do, because I don't hear or see any difference when changing those.


----------



## Frequentflyer

Not sure why you are trying to EQ the tweeters and the sub at the same time. Do front stage left, then right, then the sub, then all together. The to and from is the range the software will auto-EQ in. Anything outside of those parameters will not be adjusted.


----------



## HereticHulk

For some reason the audio frog tuning guide posted earlier in this thread suggests to tune with the sub. But that isn’t going to cause the RTA to cut off at 8 khz


----------



## Frequentflyer

What's up with the 5.625 degree phase on channel A?


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> What's up with the 5.625 degree phase on channel A?


IDK. It must have showed up after I set the distances.


----------



## Frequentflyer

I don't recall phase changing when setting distances. You may want to check that out. Set it to "0" and try that RTA again. You can always put it back to 5.625.


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> I don't recall phase changing when setting distances. You may want to check that out. Set it to "0" and try that RTA again. You can always put it back to 5.625.


Didn't make a difference putting the phase back to 0. Also muted the sub. Same.


----------



## Frequentflyer

Where are your tweeters? Did that mic come with a calibration file? Also, you second pic shows that the EQ is bypassed on the bottom left.


----------



## tjk_bail

Do get that same drop off at 8k inside REW RTA window? If you do, its not the Helix software,....you will need to double-check all of your windows settings. Right click on the speaker icon on lower right......

Never hurts to reboot.... often.


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> Where are your tweeters? Did that mic come with a calibration file? Also, you second pic shows that the EQ is bypassed on the bottom left.


Stereo Integrity M2s. It did come with a calibration file. It’s a text document. I didn’t think I’d need to use that to start messing around with the RTA. None of the bands are that far off where it would make a huge difference. I am assuming I’d want to adjust the mic eq settings per the calibration file?

The “load” option in the pc tool doesn’t recognize a text file. I am not sure what kind of file it is looking for to load?

I tried it bypassed and not bypassed. No difference.

I tried uninstalling the newer beta version and installed the older version (4.65). The 4.65 only would load or recognize my saved settings once I went in through the demo mode. Once loaded, the “start analyzing” and “start measuring buttons”were greyed out and I got no audio. So I uninstalled 4.65 and reinstalled 4.70, same issue.


----------



## tjk_bail

Helix RTA & Auto EQ - A Car Audio Junkies Exclusive


Hey guys, some of us were recently talking about the RTA and its auto eq function in the Helix DSP software. I realized that even though i work with these things daily for the past 2+ years, i have never even used the RTA or its auto eq function, so i decided to give it a shot WHILE also filming...



www.caraudiojunkies.com





That video from the above thread will show you how to move your .cal file into the Helix folders. And will show you how to use the entire Helix RTA software...


----------



## HereticHulk

tjk_bail said:


> Do get that same drop off at 8k inside REW RTA window? If you do, its not the Helix software,....you will need to double-check all of your windows settings. Right click on the speaker icon on lower right......
> 
> Never hurts to reboot.... often.


I am not sure what the REW RTA window is?


----------



## tjk_bail

REW (Room EQ Wizzard) is a free RTA software used to measure frequency's in a car or home. Its used by 97% off all peeps on this DYI website. Tons and Tons of help here on how to use it. 









Official REW (Room EQ Wizard) Support Forum


Guides / Links / Notes / Setup / Connection / Testing Official Support Forum for Room EQ Wizard (REW) by John Mulcahy




www.avnirvana.com


----------



## tjk_bail

Most people dont use the Helix RTA to tune their Helix system. They use REW to tune their Helix stereo. REW will help you tune any system that has a DSP. The Helix Auto-RTA is okay when your just getting started as you will at least be able to listen to your system and not have to plug your ears when ya turn it up. But to tune it to its full potential, you will need to use REW.....


----------



## Frequentflyer

The only reason you'd use the Helix RTA would be to taken advantage of the auto-EQ. Other than that, it's a sucky RTA.


----------



## tjk_bail

Yeah your right.... I dont like how it uses up all EQ bands on every channel. I tried it once... it would have high db adjustments that were meant for the tweets show up on the Sub Channels, well all the channels, Like adjustment of +3db at 10000 and +4db at 12.5K on the fricken sub channels... I like the 30PEQ bands per channel thank you...


----------



## HereticHulk

Yikes. Nothing worth doing is ever easy. Thanks for all the info guys! I’ve got some **** to figure out.


----------



## HereticHulk

tjk_bail said:


> Helix RTA & Auto EQ - A Car Audio Junkies Exclusive
> 
> 
> Hey guys, some of us were recently talking about the RTA and its auto eq function in the Helix DSP software. I realized that even though i work with these things daily for the past 2+ years, i have never even used the RTA or its auto eq function, so i decided to give it a shot WHILE also filming...
> 
> 
> 
> www.caraudiojunkies.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That video from the above thread will show you how to move your .cal file into the Helix folders. And will show you how to use the entire Helix RTA software...


I copied my mic's calibration text info into the "cal" file in the audiotech-fischer folder and saved it. How do I know it is using the file in the RTA settings? I am still seeing the same options on that screen - at least in demo mode.


----------



## Frequentflyer

Nothing will show you what it's using. Just assume it is using the numbers you put in the cal.txt file.


----------



## tjk_bail

HereticHulk said:


> I copied my mic's calibration text info into the "cal" file in the audiotech-fischer folder and saved it. How do I know it is using the file in the RTA settings? I am still seeing the same options on that screen - at least in demo mode.



If you copied/pasted the cal file over correctly, and its the 1 and only cal.txt file in the Helix folder, and the contents inside the cal.txt file are from your microphone's calibration file.... Helix is using it. Just a note.. the Helix will use whatever the text/numbers are inside the cal.txt file for its microphone calibration. So if you change to a different microphone, you will need to update the cal.txt file with that other mic's calibration file information.

I'm not sure what will display or not display when you are in Demo mode. Be sure to 'connect' to your Helix for anything and everything. Demo mode is showing you all the options that the $5000.00 BRAX DSP has... when you connect your Helix, you will only see the options that are available for your DSP.


----------



## dobslob

tjk_bail said:


> Yeah your right.... I dont like how it uses up all EQ bands on every channel. I tried it once... it would have high db adjustments that were meant for the tweets show up on the Sub Channels, well all the channels, Like adjustment of +3db at 10000 and +4db at 12.5K on the fricken sub channels... I like the 30PEQ bands per channel thank you...


This only happens when you don't set the RTA up properly. If you select the correct frequency range for each speaker it won't adjust those that are out of range.


----------



## dobslob

tjk_bail said:


> If you copied/pasted the cal file over correctly, and its the 1 and only cal.txt file in the Helix folder, and the contents inside the cal.txt file are from your microphone's calibration file.... Helix is using it. Just a note.. the Helix will use whatever the text/numbers are inside the cal.txt file for its microphone calibration. So if you change to a different microphone, you will need to update the cal.txt file with that other mic's calibration file information.
> 
> I'm not sure what will display or not display when you are in Demo mode. Be sure to 'connect' to your Helix for anything and everything. Demo mode is showing you all the options that the $5000.00 BRAX DSP has... when you connect your Helix, you will only see the options that are available for your DSP.


This isn't true. The Demo mode will only show the options for the DSP selected when entering Demo Mode.


----------



## dobslob

tjk_bail said:


> Most people dont use the Helix RTA to tune their Helix system. They use REW to tune their Helix stereo. REW will help you tune any system that has a DSP. The Helix Auto-RTA is okay when your just getting started as you will at least be able to listen to your system and not have to plug your ears when ya turn it up. But to tune it to its full potential, you will need to use REW.....


We have used it for our demo vehicles for the past few years. It is great to show people how good of a job they can expect every time they use it. It is better than the vast majority of shops can do, and way faster. Can you do better with more tools and more time? ABSOLUTELY. It isn't the be all end all of tuning, but it is extremely dependable.

I have a saved auto tune file and a file that Nick set up on my Audi. Most prefer Nick's tune, but there are a few even here on DIYMA that prefer the auto tune.


----------



## tjk_bail

dobslob said:


> This isn't true. The Demo mode will only show the options for the DSP selected when entering Demo Mode.


Holy molly...... I didn't realize that I could choose which DSP model on that startup window. Is this a new option, as I always just clicked 'Start Demo' .. haha.. dammmm...been doing that for years... ahh the things you learn in here.. thanks dobslob !


----------



## tjk_bail

dobslob said:


> We have used it for our demo vehicles for the past few years. It is great to show people how good of a job they can expect every time they use it. It is better than the vast majority of shops can do, and way faster. Can you do better with more tools and more time? ABSOLUTELY. It isn't the be all end all of tuning, but it is extremely dependable.
> 
> I have a saved auto tune file and a file that Nick set up on my Audi. Most prefer Nick's tune, but there are a few even here on DIYMA that prefer the auto tune.



I believe an A/B comparison between Helix Auto-Tune and Nicks tune would be close. But, all the pre-set adjustments, as in XO's, phase, slopes.. ect, ect, for both tunes have been done by a Professional(Nick) in your car. Your speaker locations and install has most likely done to professional level. All that would highly increase the likely-hood of a really nice sounding system and ease of tuning.

I'm just a D.I.Y. guy... my speaker install was done by me using Factory locations... and I am nowhere near close to a professional installer. I have huge single speaker modal dips at 160hz on drivers side and 250hz on passenger side, and other areas. The Helix Auto-tune will just max boost those modal areas. And Max Boosting Modal areas really isnt a good thing....

A system that has been professionally installed usually does not have to deal with as many modal problems, or as deep modal problems. I wholeheartedly believe the Helix Auto-Tune will work extreemly well.... IF.... your system is installed at or near professional level or does not have single speaker model issues.

Thats why REW is needed for those of us with crappy installs...


----------



## dobslob

tjk_bail said:


> I believe an A/B comparison between Helix Auto-Tune and Nicks tune would be close. But, all the pre-set adjustments, as in XO's, phase, slopes.. ect, ect, for both tunes have been done by a Professional(Nick) in your car. Your speaker locations and install has most likely done to professional level. All that would highly increase the likely-hood of a really nice sounding system and ease of tuning.
> 
> I'm just a DYI guy... my speaker install was done by me using Factory locations... and I am nowhere near close to a professional installer. I have huge single speaker modal dips at 160hz on drivers side and 250hz on passenger side, and other areas. The Helix Auto-tune will just max boost those modal areas.
> 
> A system that has been professionally installed usually does not have to deal with as many modal problems, or as deep modal problems. I wholeheartedly believe the Helix Auto-Tune will work extreemly well.... IF.... your system is installed at or near professional level or does not have single speaker model issues.
> 
> Thats why REW is needed for those of us with crappy installs...


In my Audi you are correct about install and speaker locations. In the rest of our demo vehicles all locations are stock and it still works damn well. And we have been working with the auto time alignment for months. No phase adjustments of any kind and basic crossovers. We honestly try to make demo vehicles that can be replicated day in and day out at any shop. Mine might have been a bit over the top...


----------



## tjk_bail

I volunteer my truck to be used as your Demo vehicle !!!!!!!


----------



## jtrosky

dobslob said:


> This only happens when you don't set the RTA up properly. If you select the correct frequency range for each speaker it won't adjust those that are out of range.


But.... If you want to tune the whole left or right side, for example - the Helix auto-tune ends up doing what the first poster said - it will adjust tweeter freqs on all channels selected (for example). Nick posted a how-to video and he showed doing whole sides at once with the Helix auto-EQ, which requires you to link all of the channels, so then, of course, the auto-EQ adjust all bands on all linked channels.

Unless you have separate curves for each speaker and do them all individually? Is that the recommended way (vs whole sides like in Nicks video)?


----------



## dobslob

You will find that the adjustments are very small if you do each speaker first, then the whole system,. Since all are already close very few adjustments will be made. It will also help you learn where there might be issues or problem areas if it actually needs to make much change when using all speakers vs individuals.


----------



## Frequentflyer

I did another auto-EQ and TA today. I wound up resetting output EQ and TA back to "0" and started over again. I didn't get pics of the actual RTA screen. For the auto-EQ I followed Nick's video and did the left front stage first, then right front stage, then the sub and then all together. I haven't tried individual drivers, but I'd imagine that may be more trouble than it's worth with the auto-EQ. It seems to do really well doing each side of a 3-way setup all at once.I made sure none of my drivers were linked for the auto-TA, which seemed to work better this time. The car is a 2017 Subaru WRX. GB10's and 25's are in the "factory location" (dash corners), but I did shoehorn the GB10's next to the 25's by cutting out holes in the plastic and designing 3D printed mounts for them. I modded the factory grills and wrapped them in speaker cloth. GB60's are in the doors in the factory location. It sounds great to me. REW is Greek to me right now, so it'll be awhile before I get some RTA pics out of REW and test for phase issues, but I can definitely live with where it is at right now.

I still can't tell if the TA numbers make sense. I'm having my doubts. I am going to do it the old fashioned way tomorrow by measuring everything to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## HereticHulk

Can anyone tell me why I am missing the Input Signal Analyzer and area to drag and drop my inputs?


----------



## Frequentflyer

HereticHulk said:


> Can anyone tell me why I am missing the Input Signal Analyzer and area to drag and drop my inputs?
> View attachment 273936


Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the P Six cannot do input analysis. The P Eight does because it features "ACO". I learned this the hard way also. LOL My primary signal source is a Fiio DAP via optical cable or HEC BT, so I don't think I need much input EQ anyway.

I honestly don't know why the software even allows you to get into that screen. Can't do much with it. It's almost a dick-tease.


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the P Six cannot do input analysis. The P Eight does because it features "ACO". I learned this the hard way also. LOL My primary signal source is a Fiio DAP via optical cable or HEC BT, so I don't think I need much input EQ anyway.


Ahhh. Thanks.


----------



## tjk_bail

Frequentflyer said:


> View attachment 273931



Good to hear your making progress. But, your speaker timing is way way way off. The auto-TA is not auto-filling to the Time Window. Look at the delay times that the auto-time window displays after it measures.... those numbers should be auto-placed in the above Time window.... and its not doing that for you.



http://tracerite.com/calc.html



Tape measure each speaker, write down the measurements, then go to the above link and key in the measurements. So, after you use Auto-TA the delays Helix comes up with should be close to what the tracerite.com says....


----------



## Frequentflyer

Yeah I remember that the auto-TA does tell you what it has calculated when it is done with its test, but you are right in that it doesn't seem to be inputting this numbers into the TA window. Strange that it is working for some, but not others. I am pretty sure I followed the correct procedure. I will measure tomorrow and reset them.


----------



## tjk_bail

Frequentflyer said:


> Yeah I remember that the auto-TA does tell you what it has calculated when it is done with its test, but you are right in that it doesn't seem to be inputting this numbers into the TA window. Strange that it is working for some, but not others. I am pretty sure I followed the correct procedure. I will measure tomorrow and reset them.



It doesnt auto-fill for me either...well it did the very first time i performed the auto-ta, but only that first time. I thought it may be something with my laptop...... I formatted the hard-drive and have been reloading the Windows 10 Operating system all day today..... will get back to tuning tomorrow....


----------



## Frequentflyer

tjk_bail said:


> It doesnt auto-fill for me either...well it did the very first time i performed the auto-ta, but only that first time. I thought it may be something with my laptop...... I formatted the hard-drive and have been reloading the Windows 10 Operating system all day today..... will get back to tuning tomorrow....


I even did a reset TA and Phase Alignment, but that doesn't seem to do anything.


----------



## HereticHulk

Frequentflyer said:


> Yeah I remember that the auto-TA does tell you what it has calculated when it is done with its test, but you are right in that it doesn't seem to be inputting this numbers into the TA window. Strange that it is working for some, but not others. I am pretty sure I followed the correct procedure. I will measure tomorrow and reset them.


What’s wrong with busting out the tape measure and putting in the distances manually?


----------



## Frequentflyer

HereticHulk said:


> What’s wrong with busting out the tape measure and putting in the distances manually?


Absolutely nothing. It is just cool when the software does things automatically, unless of course when in this case, it doesn't work as advertised.


----------



## tjk_bail

HereticHulk said:


> What’s wrong with busting out the tape measure and putting in the distances manually?



ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that. Thats how peeps been doing it for years and years, and its proven to work really well. Just be as accurate as you possibly can getting the tape measurements. Then go to that then go to that link I just posted....


----------



## HereticHulk

Is the grey below the default target curve? I'm gonna start the pink noise and do channel by channel EQ to match this curve using the Start Analyzer, Start Measurements and Set EQ until it matches close?


----------



## tjk_bail

I have very little experience using the Helix RTA... but yes the grey is the total house curve. If your going to try and RTA each speaker (I've never done that), I know you will need to set the correct bands. Like From: band 1.5 Octave below your HP crossover, and To Band: 20000 (for tweets) or 1.5 octave above your LP crossover for mid-base/mid range.

So, if your HP crossover for your Tweet is 4K, then set the From Band to 1.5K (actually you would have to use 1.6k) and To Band to 20000..... I think this is how you would do it, but i'm not sure... but you may want to see if others respond.....


----------



## Frequentflyer

This is what it will look like when it auto-EQ's. This was the finished product for me for the left and right sides separetely the first time I did for the first time on Wednesday. I unfortunately didn't take pics when I did it yesterday. Also, if you are going to do this multiple times, reset all of your EQ values to "0" or do it with a new setup file. I wouldn't auto-EQ on top of auto-EQ. That seemed to really screw things up for me so I just started from scratch.


----------



## jtrosky

Frequentflyer said:


> I did another auto-EQ and TA today. I wound up resetting output EQ and TA back to "0" and started over again. I didn't get pics of the actual RTA screen. For the auto-EQ I followed Nick's video and did the left front stage first, then right front stage, then the sub and then all together. I haven't tried individual drivers, but I'd imagine that may be more trouble than it's worth with the auto-EQ. It seems to do really well doing each side of a 3-way setup all at once.I made sure none of my drivers were linked for the auto-TA, which seemed to work better this time. The car is a 2017 Subaru WRX. GB10's and 25's are in the "factory location" (dash corners), but I did shoehorn the GB10's next to the 25's by cutting out holes in the plastic and designing 3D printed mounts for them. I modded the factory grills and wrapped them in speaker cloth. GB60's are in the doors in the factory location. It sounds great to me. REW is Greek to me right now, so it'll be awhile before I get some RTA pics out of REW and test for phase issues, but I can definitely live with where it is at right now.
> 
> I still can't tell if the TA numbers make sense. I'm having my doubts. I am going to do it the old fashioned way tomorrow by measuring everything to see if it makes a difference.
> 
> View attachment 273930
> 
> 
> View attachment 273931


Yeah, those TA numbers are definitely not correct.  Your pictures also show the issue we were talking about earlier - for example, it is boosting 80hz by 6dB on your tweeter channel.  Not the end of the world, but just "strange"....

I think what Doug was recommending was to come up with separate house curves for each of your speakers - so one for midbass, one for mids and one for tweeters (for example) - and then use the auto-EQ on each individual speaker, just for the freq range they will play. That way it only adjusts the EQ bands that the speaker actually plays.

Another thing that I really dislike about the Helix RTA is how you have to setup the curves "manually" with those sliders instead of just being able to load them in from a standard-format house-curve file. Would be so nice if you could just "import" a house curve like you can in REW. In my experience, it also ends up boosting the last few treble bands by 6dB every time (maybe because the MIC doesn't measure that high properly)?

Add to that the fact that it only uses GEQ and I just prefer to do my tuning through REW manually. Yes, it takes longer, but I feel like I have more control and end up with better results. If you are in a hurry to get a tune that works, then I guess the auto-EQ is beneficial. It's just not for me, that's all.  I'm never in that much of a hurry for my own car.

I haven't even messed with the auto-TA yet - and probably won't until at least one bug-fix release is released (I usually don't update until the software becomes stable - and even then sometimes I don't). Reading about the auto-TA changing high and low-pass filters while doing the TA is a little scary. My tape-measure measurements work just fine.


----------



## vette_werks

I tried the auto eq yesterday and I am absolutely astonished how well it did. Its literally 90-95% there to the target curve after visiting in REW. I ended up trying the auto eq many times until I finally caught what it was doing.
The most important part to auto eq seems to be paying attention when it hits the target curve. If i let it keep tuning itself after hitting the target, it would miss the target by a large margin. It seems right before the last time or second to last auto tune setting seems to be the sweet spot.
Things I noticed is there is no boost threshold, so theoretically, it could over boost some frequencies and blow a speaker from clipping. Just be mindful I suppose.

This auto eq is simply amazing for the time it takes. 

I tuned in these following steps:

I used Pink Noise PN in REW to tune.
I used the 90deg cal file in the helix for my UMIK-1, ear-to-ear method was used. Few seconds each ear to average.

1. Left tweeter, mid, midbass
2. Right tweeter, mid, midbass
3. Verify each side in rew target curve, touch up if necessary. 
4. Tune sub by itself, ended up using REW, auto tune was doing some weird stuff at the crossover point.
5. Tune system altogether, look for phase issues. However, check system output frequency before doing another relative system tune. It may not be worth it to retune the whole system as it was in my case.
6. I had to retune some speaker levels to get a better center image, it was close but was off.


----------



## jtrosky

So when you tune a whole side at once (midbass, mid and tweeter, for example), how does it possibly get the crossovers right? How does it know when to boost/reduce the midbass in the crossover region instead of the mid in the crossover region, for example? It just sees all of the speakers together as one single speaker - and it's adjusting the EQ filters for all speakers at the same time. It's just worried about the overall result - not the individual speaker responses. So while the overall response for the "left side" might match your curve, the crossover regions could be way out of whack and probably won't "mesh" just right when measuring a whole side at once like that (and would be different between left and right sides).

When I tried it a whole side at a time like in Nicks video, it did not get the crossover regions right. For example, the midbassmid crossovers were very different between left and right. Like I said, the overall response might have been _somewhat_ close between left and right, but that doesn't mean the crossover regions are right (equal between the two speakers being crossover over) - which would cause staging issues since the left midbass may be way higher in the crossover region compared to the right midbass in the crossover region. Again, it's just seeing the whole side as a single speaker - and it's just working to get the overall response right.

That's why I agree with Doug that you'd really have to auto-EQ each speaker individually first in order to have any chance of getting a really decent tune from the auto-EQ. You'd need to define separate house curves for each individual speaker, including their crossover slopes in the curve.

It would be interesting to measure each individual speaker in REW afterwards and see how each speaker matches on left and right (when auto-EQ'ing a whole side at a time instead of individual speakers). I'd expect that you'd see significant differences between the left and right individual speakers responses when auto-EQ'ing a whole side at a time.

At least that is my understanding of how auto-EQ works on the Helix. I've never tried it doing each spaeaker individually - just whole sides at a time like in Nicks video.


----------



## Frequentflyer

jtrosky said:


> So when you tune a whole side at once (midbass, mid and tweeter, for example), how does it possibly get the crossovers right? How does it know when to boost/reduce the midbass in the crossover region instead of the mid in the crossover region, for example? It just sees all of the speakers together as one single speaker - and it's adjusting the EQ filters for all speakers at the same time. It's just worried about the overall result - not the individual speaker responses. So while the overall response for the "left side" might match your curve, the crossover regions could be way out of whack and probably won't "mesh" just right when measuring a whole side at once like that (and would be different between left and right sides).
> 
> When I tried it a whole side at a time like in Nicks video, it did not get the crossover regions right. For example, the midbassmid crossovers were very different between left and right. Like I said, the overall response might have been _somewhat_ close between left and right, but that doesn't mean the crossover regions are right (equal between the two speakers being crossover over) - which would cause staging issues since the left midbass may be way higher in the crossover region compared to the right midbass in the crossover region. Again, it's just seeing the whole side as a single speaker - and it's just working to get the overall response right.
> 
> That's why I agree with Doug that you'd really have to auto-EQ each speaker individually first in order to have any chance of getting a really decent tune from the auto-EQ. You'd need to define separate house curves for each individual speaker, including their crossover slopes in the curve.
> 
> It would be interesting to measure each individual speaker in REW afterwards and see how each speaker matches on left and right (when auto-EQ'ing a whole side at a time instead of individual speakers). I'd expect that you'd see significant differences between the left and right individual speakers responses when auto-EQ'ing a whole side at a time.
> 
> At least that is my understanding of how auto-EQ works on the Helix. I've never tried it doing each spaeaker individually - just whole sides at a time like in Nicks video.


You are correct in that when you auto-EQ multiple drivers at the same time, it is adjusting EQ for the entire range you specify in the RTA (ex: 100 through 20,000). I'm not quite sure what you mean when you talk about crossover regions as I set the crossover regions myself before I did the auto-EQ. I am unaware of it setting crossover regions by itself (however, I did notice at one point that one of my mid-basses was set to "bypass" on the low-pass side and I don't recall doing this myself so something was funky there). You can see my crossover settings in the below pics.

I agree that auto-EQ would work that much better if we did one driver at a time. However, with what you said before about not being able to easily set the house curve (it does however save files with the .atref extension so it can be done), I don't think tuning individual drivers is going to be much easier than REW (even though I know jack-squat about REW right now).

My thought is that if you set the appropriate band range you want auto-tuned for individual drivers while still using the full-range house curve, it will still auto-EQ that driver to match that range of the house curve. For example, if I wanted to auto-EQ the midbass, I would just set the range to maybe 40 to 500 and let it do its thing to match the house curve.

If there were a way to convert REW curves to atref format (and maybe there is, I don't know), you could load each file individually. Again, I know nothing about REW. I downloaded it and have been playing around with it, but it's definitely got a steep learning curve. It would be nice to do all of this right in the Helix software, but I know it will never do what REW can do.


----------



## tjk_bail

Frequentflyer said:


> _You are correct in that when you auto-EQ multiple drivers at the same time, it is adjusting EQ for the entire range you specify in the RTA (ex: 100 through 20,000). I'm not quite sure what you mean when you talk about crossover regions as I set the crossover regions myself before I did the auto-EQ. I am unaware of it setting crossover regions by itself (however, I did notice at one point that one of my mid-basses was set to "bypass" on the low-pass side and I don't recall doing this myself so something was funky there). You can see my crossover settings in the below pics._
> 
> TJK_BAIL >>> The Auto-TA will do this. It happened to me too.
> 
> _My thought is that if you set the appropriate band range you want auto-tuned for individual drivers while still using the full-range house curve, it will still auto-EQ that driver to match that range of the house curve. For example, if I wanted to auto-EQ the midbass, I would just set the range to maybe 40 to 500 and let it do its thing to match the house curve._
> 
> If your measure this way.... the Auto tune will attempt to boost your 40hz up to match the house curve, also same with 500hz, will boost 500hz up to match the the curve, those freq should be a part of the HP & LP downslopes.



What about this... 









Set up Auto-RTA to tune beginning above the crossover region of mid-range/mid-base, where the speaker curve matches the house curve all the way up. So, Auto-RTA From band would be 630hz To band 20000. This way it will not tune through the HP downslope Crossover or downslope on LP crossover on mid-range, but will tune through the crossover between Mid-Range and Tweets. Then manually tune from 630hz down for the mid-range and mid-base in REW.
This way would be a really fast quick way to get your mid-range tweets tuned.....
Does this make sense...??


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## jtrosky

Frequentflyer said:


> You are correct in that when you auto-EQ multiple drivers at the same time, it is adjusting EQ for the entire range you specify in the RTA (ex: 100 through 20,000). I'm not quite sure what you mean when you talk about crossover regions as I set the crossover regions myself before I did the auto-EQ. I am unaware of it setting crossover regions by itself (however, I did notice at one point that one of my mid-basses was set to "bypass" on the low-pass side and I don't recall doing this myself so something was funky there). You can see my crossover settings in the below pics.
> 
> I agree that auto-EQ would work that much better if we did one driver at a time. However, with what you said before about not being able to easily set the house curve (it does however save files with the .atref extension so it can be done), I don't think tuning individual drivers is going to be much easier than REW (even though I know jack-squat about REW right now).
> 
> My thought is that if you set the appropriate band range you want auto-tuned for individual drivers while still using the full-range house curve, it will still auto-EQ that driver to match that range of the house curve. For example, if I wanted to auto-EQ the midbass, I would just set the range to maybe 40 to 500 and let it do its thing to match the house curve.
> 
> If there were a way to convert REW curves to atref format (and maybe there is, I don't know), you could load each file individually. Again, I know nothing about REW. I downloaded it and have been playing around with it, but it's definitely got a steep learning curve. It would be nice to do all of this right in the Helix software, but I know it will never do what REW can do.


What I'm saying is that even though you set crossover frequencies and slopes for HP and LP filters for both sides, you usually still need to do some EQ in the crossover areas afterwards (the acoustical slopes are usually not perfect just by setting the electrical properties - you still need to "shape" them with EQ). So the auto EQ may apply EQ differently to the left and the right sides - so even though the end result may match the overall curve on each side, the individual speakers may not match on each side. The auto EQ may reach the target curve by boosting the midbass at 400hz on the drivers side, but then on the right side, it may reach the target curve by boosting the mid at 400hz instead of the midbass like it did on the left side. The end result for each side would match the target curve, but the individual midbass speakers may not match on both the left and right sides at all. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say - I'll have to fined my first attempt at auto-eq'ing left and right sides to help illustrate what I'm trying to say.


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## Frequentflyer

I get what your saying now. Yes, you have a point there. I will try to go outside in a bit and do a few individual drivers. I wiped my setup file clean to start over again and saved it as a new file to experiment. If I could actually figure out how REW works, I'd post some plots from what I've done already with auto-EQ, but I don't know if that's going to happen for a while...🤔


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## tjk_bail

Frequentflyer said:


> I get what your saying now. Yes, you have a point there. I will try to go outside in a bit and do a few individual drivers. I wiped my setup file clean to start over again and saved it as a new file to experiment. If I could actually figure out how REW works, I'd post some plots from what I've done already with auto-EQ, but I don't know if that's going to happen for a while...🤔



See if you can find the REW version 5.16, 5.18 or 5.19. Most of the help on here are from those versions. The current REW version of 5.20 has so much more complexity, buttons, and junk, that its really confusing to use for our needs...


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## Frequentflyer

tjk_bail said:


> See if you can find the REW version 5.16, 5.18 or 5.19. Most of the help on here are from those versions. The current REW version of 5.20 has so much more complexity, buttons, and junk, that its really confusing to use for our needs...


Aaaahh.... that is most likely my problem (or at least part of it).


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## tjk_bail

Start with Version 5.18 if you can find it. I have a it if you want it.


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## jtrosky

GIve me a second and I'll share an older version.... I'll update this post with a link in a minute.

Here is a link to Beta 18: REW_windows-x64_5_20_beta18.exe

EDIT: Ooops! I see you are looking for 5.18, not 5.20 beta 18.  I don't have anything that old. I actually use the latest versions - they actually do add some useful features....

EDIT2: I did find 5.19 in my PC downloads folder if that helps: REW_windows_5_19_with_JRE.exe


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## tjk_bail

jtrosky said:


> - they actually do add some useful features....



Like what ??


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## tjk_bail

5.18 is easier to use...


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## jtrosky

You're testing my memory - but just a for example off the top of my head - in the EQ Filters window, the newer versions have crossover filters, so that you can apply crossovers to a "full bandwidth" speaker measurement. So you can take one full-bandwidth measurement and EQ it with any crossover frequencies you want to use (without take new measurements with those xover freqs - it "simulates" them). Makes it VERY quick and easy to re-EQ using different crossover points. Lots of bug fixes. Display improvements (fine grid lines on graphs, etc). I'm sure there are TONS of little enhancements that I use daily. 5.18/5.19 is like 2 years old. They author is VERY active with this app and constantly adding new features. He releases new versions every few weeks.

You'd be surprised how improved it is.


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## tjk_bail

I'm using 5.20 now.... I've grown with it since 5.18 first came out. I learned how to use 5.18 back when I was learning all this tuning stuff, then as when 5.19 and 5.20 came out with a lot of extra buttons and added complexity.. well I dont know.. 5.18 is just plain ol easier to use.....


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## Frequentflyer

I just got 5.19 installed. It does look a lot easier to use compared to what I had (5.20 Beta 55).


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## jtrosky

It's a personal-preference type of thing, I guess. It's been so long since I used 5.19, I can't even remember what it looks like. I just remember really liking some of the improvements that I noticed when installing new versions over time. It's just like anything else, anytime you add more features, the product tends to get a little more complex. REW is extremely powerful.

Just a little hint to avid some frustration for new users. When EQ'ing, if you use the "Subwoofer" or "Bass-limited" speaker types, they use Butterworth xovers. You are better off using "Speaker Driver" instead - it allows you to specify the LP and HP xover types and slopes (LR4 = Linkwitz-Riley 24dB). Many people wonder why their xovers aren't lining up correctly after using REW to EQ and it's because the main speaker types in REW use Butterworth xovers instead of Linkwitz-Riley - so always use "Speaker Driver" so that _you_ can specify the xover type and slope!.


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## jtrosky

FYI - here is an example of an EQ job down by the Helix auto-EQ (graphical EQ only) and a "manual" EQ job using Parametric-EQ. 

Which one would you rather have?  

Auto-EQ:










Manual-EQ:











The house curves were probably different, but the point is how much closer left and right match with the manual EQ and how much better the crossovers line up with the manual EQ.


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## Frequentflyer

jtrosky said:


> FYI - here is an example of an EQ job down by the Helix auto-EQ (graphical EQ only) and a "manual" EQ job using Parametric-EQ.
> 
> Which one would you rather have?
> 
> Auto-EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manual-EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The house curves were probably different, but the point is how much closer left and right match with the manual EQ and how much better the crossovers line up with the manual EQ.


Well I guess it all depends on whether all of those variations are audible differences. I would venture to argue that some of them are and some of them aren't. All depends on whether the juice is worth the squeeze. 🙂

Now was the auto-EQ done one side at a time with multiple drivers are individually?

Obviously using parametric EQ is always going to be smoother, but again, let's compare the time required to do one or the other and factor in whether or not these minute differences are audible while you are driving down the highway at 75mph. Sitting with the car off in your garage, probably. Again, I have very little experience with all this tuning stuff, but I tend to think some of these REW plots begin to develop into a so-called weiner measuring contest like dyno charts are for gear heads and at the end of the day, can anyone feel the difference between 400whp and 430? At that level probably not.


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## tjk_bail

jtrosky said:


> Just a little hint to avid some frustration for new users. When EQ'ing, if you use the "Subwoofer" or "Bass-limited" speaker types, they use Butterworth xovers. You are better off using "Speaker Driver" instead - it allows you to specify the LP and HP xover types and slopes (LR4 = Linkwitz-Riley 24dB). Many people wonder why their xovers aren't lining up correctly after using REW to EQ and it's because the main speaker types in REW use Butterworth xovers instead of Linkwitz-Riley - so always use "Speaker Driver" so that _you_ can specify the xover type and slope!.



BTW Nice work on that Manual tune... wow that looks good!!

I thought if one was to use the Jazzi 'speaker' curve, and import a speaker curve into REW, in the EQ module you would want "None" as your speaker type, because the db downslope is incorporated in the imported curve. Only use 'Speaker Driver' if your curve is a total house curve, and REW will calculate the downslope for you......


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## jtrosky

Frequentflyer said:


> Well I guess it all depends on whether all of those variations are audible differences. I would venture to argue that some of them are and some of them aren't. All depends on whether the juice is worth the squeeze.
> 
> Now was the auto-EQ done one side at a time with multiple drivers are individually?
> 
> Obviously using parametric EQ is always going to be smoother, but again, let's compare the time required to do one or the other and factor in whether or not these minute differences are audible while you are driving down the highway at 75mph. Sitting with the car off in your garage, probably. Again, I have very little experience with all this tuning stuff, but I tend to think some of these REW plots begin to develop into a so-called weiner measuring contest like dyno charts are for gear heads and at the end of the day, can anyone feel the difference between 400whp and 430? At that level probably not.


To me, there is only only possible advantage of the "auto-EQ" - and that is time. It's obviously quicker to do an auto-tune. But it will never provide better results than can be done manually. After spending thousands of dollars on equipment and many, many hours on it's installation, it only makes sense to me to spend the time to get the tune as good as you can possibly get it. Doing a complete tune via REW really doesn't take _that_ much longer than the Helix auto-EQ once you become proficient with REW (especially if you use the REW auto-EQ feature) - but the results will almost always be better. Sure, there are some parts that you may not hear the difference, but there are also parts where the differences between left/right are over 5dB different with the auto-tune, which would definitely be audible. Better centering, better matching of the house-curve, most consistent crossover section (which will result in better summatiion at the crossovers), etc. What those pictures above do NOT show is how well the response matches the target curve - and I can tell you that the manual tune matches the target curve much, much closer. They also don't show any phase-related issues with the combined L+R response that I fixed in the manual tune with allpass filters that wouldn't be fixed with auto-tune. Again, why settle for less than the best after spending so much time and money on your system just to save a few hours of your time? If you go as far as to purchase a calibrated microphone to fully tune your system as best as you possibly can, you might as well get the best possible results that you can.  In my opinion, of course....




tjk_bail said:


> BTW Nice work on that Manual tune... wow that looks good!!
> 
> I thought if one was to use the Jazzi 'speaker' curve, and import a speaker curve into REW, in the EQ module you would want "None" as your speaker type, because the db downslope is incorporated in the imported curve. Only use 'Speaker Driver' if your curve is a total house curve, and REW will calculate the downslope for you......


Yes, you are absolutely correct if using the individual speaker curves from the Jazzi spreadsheet. I personally never used the spreadsheet since REW generates the per-speaker curves on-the-fly from the full house curve. So my comment only applies if using a full house curve and letting REW generate the per-speaker curves on-the-fly. Very good point!


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## tjk_bail

Anybody know where I can get a 1k full scale test tone (0 db), also looking for a 40Hz and 8k full scale test tone (0 db). Is the 'full scale test tone' just a sine wave that I could generate outta REW ?


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## Frequentflyer

tjk_bail said:


> Anybody know where I can get a 1k full scale test tone (0 db), also looking for a 40Hz and 8k full scale test tone (0 db). Is the 'full scale test tone' just a sine wave that I could generate outta REW ?


Lots of test tones online for download. I think I got most of mine from Kicker.com, but I think I used a 50Hz and 1k Hz 0db tones from them. I don't see an 8k there. REW does generate sine wave test tones.

So I went out this morning to try to auto-EQ one driver at a time and it wouldn't do it, BUT it also wouldn't do left and right sets anymore either so I don't think it was actually a problem EQ'ing one driver at a time. I think something else was up with the software or maybe I was doing something wrong. I'm pretty sure I did everything like I did the other day, but it wouldn't set the EQ by itself. It would count down and run through its test, but it just wouldn't move any of the EQ band sliders. Kind of weird. I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and was a little cranky (it was already 90+ degrees in my car this AM with the morning sun shining through the windshield), so I packed it up and came in. I will investigate.

On a different note, I took tape measurements last night for TA and wound up putting those into my tune that was already auto-EQ'd. Those auto-TA settings were definitely off because it made a noticeable difference.


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## HereticHulk

jtrosky said:


> FYI - here is an example of an EQ job down by the Helix auto-EQ (graphical EQ only) and a "manual" EQ job using Parametric-EQ.
> 
> Which one would you rather have?
> 
> Auto-EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manual-EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The house curves were probably different, but the point is how much closer left and right match with the manual EQ and how much better the crossovers line up with the manual EQ.


Are you going back and forth - manually adjusting the EQ bands in the Helix PC-Tool and seeing how it effects the response in REW? Is that what you mean by manually tuning?

Also what are the two sliders on the RTA screen and what are they changing? The signal output doesn't change when I move the slider? I am not understanding their purpose. I am also noticing I have to raise my right mid-bass channel gain and output level by almost 5 db to get it to match closer overall to the target curve.


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## Frequentflyer

HereticHulk said:


> Are you going back and forth - manually adjusting the EQ bands in the Helix PC-Tool and seeing how it effects the response in REW? Is that what you mean by manually tuning?
> 
> Also what are the two sliders on the RTA screen and what are they changing? The signal output doesn't change when I move the slider? I am not understanding their purpose. I am also noticing I have to raise my right mid-bass channel gain and output level by almost 5 db to get it to match closer overall to the target curve.
> View attachment 274105


You need to start your analyzer and measurement to see where your level is. Turn your pink noise on at your listening level and see where it is. Then you use the left hand slider to bring that near your house curve. You don't want the auto-EQ max boosting to reach your house curve. It will actually tell you if you need to match your reference curve more closely. I would lower the gain on the left side rather than raise it on the right, which is pretty much standard practice to avoid clipping.


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## Frequentflyer

I wound up going back out this afternoon and doing another auto-set EQ after rebooting my laptop and DSP Tool. It seemed to work fine this time. I was able to do each driver individually this time. I did not auto-set all of the drivers together after doing them individually. Just for kicks I went back to a flat tune with no TA and listened to it for 10-15 min then did the auto-tune. Night and day difference. I know that sometimes after getting used to something you don't realize how good it is. I will leave this tune be until I can get into REW and figure it out.


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## tjk_bail

REW really isnt that difficult for what we use it for.. just RTA, Levels, Phase dips, and maybe use the REW auto-EQ. REW really is powerful and can do a lot of stuff other than just RTA (frequency response). But now that the Helix will do the timing for us, well thats a bonus....

Get Jazzi's Speaker Curve Excel, and make your own House Curve and speaker curves for REW, and have fun.









Jazzi's tuning companion for room eq wizard


Note: See the link in my signature to download the latest version of this tool. This spreadsheet has been a lot of fun to make! My goal is to take as much guesswork out of the tuning and installation process as possible. With this tool, you can calculate a safe high-pass crossover point for...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## Frequentflyer

tjk_bail said:


> REW really isnt that difficult for what we use it for.. just RTA, Levels, Phase dips, and maybe use the REW auto-EQ. REW really is powerful and can do a lot of stuff other than just RTA (frequency response). But now that the Helix will do the timing for us, well thats a bonus....
> 
> Get Jazzi's Speaker Curve Excel, and make your own House Curve and speaker curves for REW, and have fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jazzi's tuning companion for room eq wizard
> 
> 
> Note: See the link in my signature to download the latest version of this tool. This spreadsheet has been a lot of fun to make! My goal is to take as much guesswork out of the tuning and installation process as possible. With this tool, you can calculate a safe high-pass crossover point for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.diymobileaudio.com


Now that I got to auto-EQ individual drivers, I may save a new setup file with zeroed out TA so I can try the auto-TA again. I'd really like to get it to work to compare it to my manual measurements.

I think the key to the auto-EQ is to set the Measurement Curve Offset in such a way so that it only mostly pulls EQ for the peaks and doesn't add it for the dips. You can also fine tune it while still playing pink noise after the auto-EQ has done it's thing.


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## tjk_bail

You're on the right track... its best to cuts the peaks, and try not to boost the dips. 
REW has an auto-EQ feature too. It will give you accurate and specific frequency's to adjust. Will tell you to increase or decrease Freq's and which Q to use. You use it to adjust using the Helix Parametric EQ, so that gives you 30 Bands of EQ per speaker, as the Helix auto-eq using the Graphic EQ, is 30 bands of EQ for the entire system.....


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## HereticHulk

Looks like I am returning this P SIX DSP MK2 and Director to the ebay seller, how do I go about getting another one for a fair price from an 'authorized' dealer here in the states? Any recommendations?


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## tjk_bail

I got Helix from Crutchfield years ago, but they no longer sell them. There are some authorized dealers the frequent this web-site (DIY), I'm sure somebody will chime in for you..... or start a new thread 'cause your post is buried deep in this thread. 
If you plan to purchase another Helix, then no need to return your Director.... 'cause it will work with any and all Helix DSP's.


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## HereticHulk

tjk_bail said:


> I got Helix from Crutchfield years ago, but they no longer sell them. There are some authorized dealers the frequent this web-site (DIY), I'm sure somebody will chime in for you..... or start a new thread 'cause your post is buried deep in this thread.
> If you plan to purchase another Helix, then no need to return your Director.... 'cause it will work with any and all Helix DSP's.


It was a package deal, will most likely be returning both. I'm tempted to just go with the AudioControl D-6.1200. Crutchfield has it in stock. They are great with returns and support, it's a bit cheaper and it does essentially the same thing that I am looking for. Also, their DSP software supports iOS. 

I'm not sure if Helix is worth the effort to just get someone to take my money. lol


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## tjk_bail

You should research that AudioControl deeply.....As you tune and get more knowledge about this hobby, the easier things get...... you will soon regret purchasing that AudioControl, 'cause it just can't do the things the Helix can do in regards to tuning. The Helix really is the best DSP out there with the easiest to use interface software....


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## jtrosky

The only other DSP I'd consider besides a Helix would be the MiniDSP 8x12 Dirac Live model. The Dirac Live auto-tune is supposed to be really good - and a true auto-tune - as opposed to an "auto-EQ" like you get with the Helix. It uses FIR filters instead of IIR filters, which I _think_ resolves phase issues at the same time it resolves frequency issues (don't quote me on that).

The nice thing about the MiniDSP is that you can easily just go on-line and buy it directly from the manufacturer. No jumping through hoops to buy from an "authorized reseller" like the Helix (and Helix "authorized resellers" aren't allowed to sell online, which is silly in this day and age, in my opinion). 

I love my Helix, but I hate the US sales model - and it just may drive me to the MiniDSP when I go to replace my Helix DSP.3.


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## bbfoto

HereticHulk said:


> It was a package deal, will most likely be returning both. I'm tempted to just go with the AudioControl D-6.1200. Crutchfield has it in stock. They are great with returns and support, it's a bit cheaper and it does essentially the same thing that I am looking for. Also, their DSP software supports iOS.
> 
> I'm not sure if Helix is worth the effort to just get someone to take my money. lol


Yes, it is a bit more difficult to acquire the Helix DSPs, but well worth it IMO.

As others have stated, I'm really happy with the miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 v2 as well, and would highly recommend it. Right now, nothing can really match the functionality of the Dirac Live, and they are solid units even without that extra feature.

While the AudioControl units look great "on paper" and in the general reviews, I would advise that you steer clear of them.

Oddly, you don't hear about it much, but AudioControl has issues with their QC for some reason. And for users of DSPs that really understand how they work and what they are doing, the AC DSPs are somewhat limited in functionality and features when you get into the nitty-gritty of them.

Yes, it is nice to have an iOS tuning app for convenience, but it is laggy and IMO not ready for primetime.

None of the DSP units are perfect, but the Helix and miniDSP units would ALWAYS be my Go-To until something better comes around.

YMMV


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## diymobileaudio997

Would someone happen to know if the Helix DSP HP58209

1) is supported by the PC Tool software v3.40a or higher
2) would then support the use of a Director


This particular Helix DSP HP58209 was last configured using PC Tool software v2.93, Rev 1, 10/7/2014 on a Windows 7 (or maybe 8) laptop.


My understanding is that the Director needs at least v3.


******
UPDATE 2/3/2021
ACCORDING TO HELIX SUPPORT, THE DSP HP58209 IS SUPPORTED BY EVEN THE LATEST SOFTWARE V4.73B.


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## Isaradia

used a d4.800, outputs were mislabeled, used a d6.1200, had noise. graphic eq's, iir filters. as I got more into higher end builds, I've lost my taste for audio control. will likely be trying miniDSP soon. will definitely be trying GZDSP 6-8X PRO shortly.


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## Zeroblackbeard

Is it possible to reorder the graphic equalizer sliders across the screen? I have assigned some parametrics to the 'unused' ones on the line out to mids (only 2/3 octave resolution on my model) but now of course they're all in the random order I reassigned them left to right. I would like to have them in ascending order


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## jtrosky

Zeroblackbeard said:


> Is it possible to reorder the graphic equalizer sliders across the screen? I have assigned some parametrics to the 'unused' ones on the line out to mids (only 2/3 octave resolution on my model) but now of course they're all in the random order I reassigned them left to right. I would like to have them in ascending order


The newer versions of the Helix software have an "EQ Band AutoSort" option in the DCM -> PC-Tool Configuration tab - it will automatically sort the bands from low to high frequency.

I wish you were able to just "grab and move" individual bands around. It never fails - I'll have them in perfect order and then have to add another parametric filter.  

Personally, I don't like the "AutoSort" option because I use some bands for parametric EQ and then use 9-bands as a "global EQ", so I don't want it sorting them automatically.


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## Zeroblackbeard

Thanks, found it. I switched it to auto sort enabled but it didn't sort them. I agree a grab and drag would be ideal


----------

