# Simple Head Unit.....What The?



## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

I have been an audiophile for over 30 years. I have invested thousands of dollars in designing and building both car and home systems. My question is this. Why are car head units so busy it is downright silly? Personally, I prefer in-dash pre amp only units that are audiophile quality audio. However, I have been looking for about a year for a simple (read volume knob, bass knob, treble knob, balance and tuner buttons) decent sounding head unit that my wife will actually USE. Virtually all of the head units I have found in the $200-$400 range are ridicules. The designers seem to think it’s more important to load them with useless features that make you have to pan through 5 functions to get to the balance control. This requires a 200 page owner’s manual that needs to be kept within reach so one can pull into a rest stop and read how to set the local/distant switch on the tuner. Factory installed units for the most part have not lost the simplicity of design philosophy. So why has the aftermarket mid-fi made a left turn?

Excuse the rant but I can’t be the only one that feels this way.

Harvy


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Very true as I have been into car audio for over 30 years also. In order to achieve simplicity, plan on spending easily $800+. The simplist ones in that range don't seem to last very long. They are what used car dealers slap into a car just so that you can see it has a radio.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

If you want simplicity, leave the stock HU. It's that easy. Most of them are not that bad sonically, and if you happen to drive a car that has fixed or speed variable EQ, you get an MS-8/CleanSweep/whatever to take care of it. 

The fact of the matter is that in order for most people to even consider buying an aftermarket head unit it needs to have more features than their stock unit. Period. Why would the average person with 200-400 dollars to spend it on something that doesn't do more than what they already have?

If you want a good, simple, SQ head unit you will either have to splurge on a McIntosh or used Denon or buy something much more old school. I needed a simple stock looking unit for my Jeep, I ended up going with an old Nakamichi pull out. It's hard to tell from stock but has improved preamp abilities. Oh yeah, and it's still a tape deck, but has a line in for my ipod/phone/laptop/whatever.


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

DaveRulz said:


> The fact of the matter is that in order for most people to even consider buying an aftermarket head unit it needs to have more features than their stock unit. Period. Why would the average person with 200-400 dollars to spend it on something that doesn't do more than what they already have?


True.
Apparently, what I would consider an important feature is not what the current market considers important.


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

IMHO the low end and also middle end head unit want to attract a lot of people by using sparkling LED, complicated functions and useless features. (it's the biggest market for auto sound maker actually)

Only the higher end head unit like the one from McIntosh, Denon, Sound Monitor, etc has the simplicity and also the sound quality. Unfortunately it is only for a small (niche) market because usually the price is very high for common people (including me).

Sad but true!


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

I know where you're coming from. I'd like a Denon or McIntosh to have that clean, refined look, but the cost is just too high.

I thought aout going with an MS-8 but the cost is just too high to maintain the stock head unit. Unfortunately, to maintain the clean look, it cost more than to go with the "ricer" look with all of the flashing lights and useless features.


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## DiMora (Nov 14, 2011)

harvylogan said:


> I have been an audiophile for over 30 years. I have invested thousands of dollars in designing and building both car and home systems. My question is this. Why are car head units so busy it is downright silly? Personally, I prefer in-dash pre amp only units that are audiophile quality audio. However, I have been looking for about a year for a simple (read volume knob, bass knob, treble knob, balance and tuner buttons) decent sounding head unit that my wife will actually USE. Virtually all of the head units I have found in the $200-$400 range are ridicules. The designers seem to think it’s more important to load them with useless features that make you have to pan through 5 functions to get to the balance control. This requires a 200 page owner’s manual that needs to be kept within reach so one can pull into a rest stop and read how to set the local/distant switch on the tuner. Factory installed units for the most part have not lost the simplicity of design philosophy. So why has the aftermarket mid-fi made a left turn?
> 
> Excuse the rant but I can’t be the only one that feels this way.
> 
> Harvy


Here's the deal: Unless you are going to use a post-head unit time-alignment box, IMHO you MUST buy a head unit that has time alignment. I will never again install a car system with T/A. It makes that much of a difference.

Yeah, you can install horns and firewall mounted drivers to minimize path-length differences, but for most "normal" installs the best a person can do is kick-panels, and even then there are time alignment issues.

I like the current Alpine and (now no longer made) Eclipse units such as the Eclipse CD7100 and CD7200 MK II.

However, what you seek does exist. Older units that will match your desires are the Clarion DRZ-9255 and the McIntosh MX406.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

How about an Eclipse 8053 for your wife's car?


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## DiMora (Nov 14, 2011)

Call first to make sure they have it in stock:

WoofersEtc.com - MX406 - McIntosh AM/FM/CD Player With Aux Input

Clarions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLARION-DRX...r_Audio_In_Dash_Receivers&hash=item3cbe7197df

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLARION-DRX...r_Audio_In_Dash_Receivers&hash=item35b731dfa8


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Why do people keep complaining about this? There are options out there.

McIntosh MX406
Pioneer DEX-P99rs.

Both can be bought brand new from a store with full warranty. If you're truly a SQ oriented person, $1000 shouldn't be an issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Angrywhopper said:


> Why do people keep complaining about this? There are options out there.
> 
> McIntosh MX406
> Pioneer DEX-P99rs.
> ...


x2...exactly....you hit the nail on the head

....or he needs to look for something used.....some of the older Eclipse HU's would work GREAT


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

DiMora said:


> Here's the deal: Unless you are going to use a post-head unit time-alignment box, IMHO you MUST buy a head unit that has time alignment. I will never again install a car system with*OUT* T/A. It makes that much of a difference.
> 
> Yeah, you can install horns and firewall mounted drivers to minimize path-length differences, but for most "normal" installs the best a person can do is kick-panels, and even then there are time alignment issues.
> 
> ...


FTFY.

I hunted for a while and ended up getting the Clarion DXZ785USB. It's a single-DIN, detachable face unit, and it has all of the following: a built-in 2- or 3-way crossover, time-alignment, a 3-band parametric EQ, and it can be set to any one of 728 different colors to match your dashboard. I _hate_ blue LEDs 

It has some tone controls and "digital z-enhancement", "sound restorer", and other EQ nonsense, as well as direct iPod control. The iPod controls are kind of goofy, though.

It also has an input for factory steering wheel controls, but I had to get an interface to put between the deck and my car: the Axxess AWSC

Clarion U.S.A. | DXZ785USB


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Again I state
Eclipse CD 8053.


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

Angrywhopper said:


> Why do people keep complaining about this? There are options out there.
> 
> McIntosh MX406
> Pioneer DEX-P99rs.
> ...


I understand what you are saying but that is not the point I am trying to make. I have cubic $$ in both my house and my truck. The 7909 in my truck does just fine. My wife is not an audiophile but would like better sound. What she does not want is a head unit that is a pain in the butt to navigate.
My point was simply that the design format for ALL car head units at the mid-fi level has turned into a light and whistle show. It’s just disappointing that’s all. Actually, most of the DD units at this level are much simpler and have some decent audio features. They are much easier to navigate with fingernails or gloves because of the larger faceplate and knobs. I have been a mechanical design engineer for many years. It seems to me that if a car audio company started a mi-fi level ($300-$500) line of head units that were stripped down to fundamental functions, put money into the audio accuracy and made them user friendly, they would probably sell a few. I don’t want to start a debate about what should or should be included. I think you get the idea.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I concur my wife holds several degrees but feel she should not need them to change the radio station. That is why I have suggested what I did as far as radio wise. She has already mandated simplicity or I'm on lock down.  lol...


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Here the list for Highend Head unit

Mcintosh 
MX5000+MDA5000
MX4000+MDA4000
MX406s
MX406

Eclipse
Sound Monitor DTA500x+ICD500x
Sound Monitor CDT450x

Pioneer
ODR RS D3
ODR RS D2
ODR 
P99RS
P9R

Sony
Z50
C90

Alpine 
F1 DVI 9990
F1 7990
7909

Denon
DCT1
DCTZ1

Nakamichi 
CD700
TP1200

Clarion
HXD2
HXD1
9255

Simple design, pure sound quality.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

harvylogan said:


> I understand what you are saying but that is not the point I am trying to make. I have cubic $$ in both my house and my truck. The 7909 in my truck does just fine. My wife is not an audiophile but would like better sound. What she does not want is a head unit that is a pain in the butt to navigate.
> My point was simply that the design format for ALL car head units at the mid-fi level has turned into a light and whistle show. It’s just disappointing that’s all. Actually, most of the DD units at this level are much simpler and have some decent audio features. They are much easier to navigate with fingernails or gloves because of the larger faceplate and knobs. I have been a mechanical design engineer for many years. It seems to me that if a car audio company started a mi-fi level ($300-$500) line of head units that were stripped down to fundamental functions, put money into the audio accuracy and made them user friendly, they would probably sell a few. I don’t want to start a debate about what should or should be included. I think you get the idea.


I completely see what you're saying. And I too would love a headunit like what you're describing. What my point was (not directly at you) that there are options available, and if it's that important to you, spending $1000 shouldn't be a road block. Lotsa people complain that they want the functionality of the Pioneer 99rs, but want to spend $200....


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## DR34M 7H3473R (Feb 25, 2008)

HondAudio said:


> FTFY.
> 
> I hunted for a while and ended up getting the Clarion DXZ785USB. It's a single-DIN, detachable face unit, and it has all of the following: a built-in 2- or 3-way crossover, time-alignment, a 3-band parametric EQ, and it can be set to any one of 728 different colors to match your dashboard. I _hate_ blue LEDs
> 
> ...


Have the same HU - though I don't find the ipod control goofy. I dig the custom display color capability as I matched my car's amber display perfectly...


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

Angrywhopper said:


> I completely see what you're saying. And I too would love a headunit like what you're describing. What my point was (not directly at you) that there are options available, and if it's that important to you, spending $1000 shouldn't be a road block. *Lotsa people complain that they want the functionality of the Pioneer 99rs, but want to spend $200....*


If somebody made a HU that looked at clean as the 99RS, with the features of a $200 head unit, I'd be all over that.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Wattser93 said:


> If somebody made a HU that looked at clean as the 99RS, with the features of a $200 head unit, I'd be all over that.


lol case and point


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

Wattser93 said:


> If somebody made a HU that looked at clean as the 99RS, with the features of a $200 head unit, I'd be all over that.


I find it interesting that the car audio market has not caught on to this. Maybe we are in the minority. I don’t follow the market much anymore. I do remember looking at what mid lines were available maybe 4 or 5 years ago and thinking that I would wait until one of the manufacturers caught on and cleaned up one of their lines. I’m still waiting….lololol.

I guess I’m just an old fart reminiscing of my youth.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

A lot of aftermarket stereos have very bad user interface and keep getting worse. On my newer Kenwood configuring radio station presets as well as switching between stations is shockingly bad. Clearly no one has put any thought into this at all. Even though I have found out how to configure the radio, I still cringe every time I reset the car battery for whatever reason because this damn deck forgets most of its settings and reverts to the stupid demo mode. (Whose bright idea was this stupid demo mode, and why is it default).

In the end, I really wish someone like apple designed car stereos....


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

harvylogan said:


> It seems to me that if a car audio company started a mi-fi level ($300-$500) line of head units that were stripped down to fundamental functions, put money into the audio accuracy and made them user friendly, they would probably sell a few.


Congrats......you just answered your own question:beerchug:

"they would probably sell a few"

BUT a few is not enough, this is all a numbers game with these companies

What does audio accuracy mean to your wife


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

Angrywhopper said:


> lol case and point


I know what you mean. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I'm just a minimalist in some aspects. I'd like a very basic looking head unit, with a decent feature set:

Time alignment
Neutral white backlighting (or some other neutral color, not ricer blue)
3 band PEQ
iPod integration
3 4V pre outs
Active crossovers

All of that for about $300-$350 would make me happy. If current manufacturers could just repackage one of their entry/mid level HUs into a simple package that blends into my interior, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, their lower priced stuff is almost always packed with lighting effects and other stupid things.

I don't want any more tuning features than that. I don't want the bass boost, "highway sound", audio enhancer, or any of that, just a HU that doesn't look foreign in my dash.

I do have an older car, being a 2001, so the HU is cheap and easy to swap out. If I had a modern car, with the integration features and everything tied into the stock NAV, I'd go with an MS-8.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

ZAKOH said:


> A lot of aftermarket stereos have very bad user interface and keep getting worse. On my newer Kenwood configuring radio station presets as well as switching between stations is shockingly bad. Clearly no one has put any thought into this at all. Even though I have found out how to configure the radio, I still cringe every time I reset the car battery for whatever reason because this damn deck forgets most of its settings and reverts to the stupid demo mode. (Whose bright idea was this stupid demo mode, and why is it default).
> 
> In the end, I really wish someone like apple designed car stereos....


I'm sorry to hear that, but you made the choice to buy the HU...that's a YOU problem ....sell it and move on......:bash:


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

ZAKOH said:


> A lot of aftermarket stereos have very bad user interface and keep getting worse. On my newer Kenwood configuring radio station presets as well as switching between stations is shockingly bad. Clearly no one has put any thought into this at all. Even though I have found out how to configure the radio, I still cringe every time I reset the car battery for whatever reason because this damn deck forgets most of its settings and reverts to the stupid demo mode. (Whose bright idea was this stupid demo mode, and why is it default).
> 
> In the end, I really wish someone like apple designed car stereos....


I have a Kenwood also, KDC-X693. Good model, adjustable color to match my interior, and the dual knobs blends decently because it doesn't have a bunch of button everywhere, but I have the same complains.

I have to reset crossover points every time, reset the colors, reset my TA. It's a pain. I write the settings down once I have them the way I like, that way I don't lose everything when I disconnect the battery. 

Switching radio stations is terrible. I use iPod 99% of the time though so it doesn't matter as much to me that the radio is so bad to navigate. I knew that before buying, if I was a radio surfer I'd steer clear from the Kenwood Excelon line.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

ZAKOH said:


> In the end, I really wish someone like apple designed car stereos....


.....And overpay for it :snacks:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

harvylogan said:


> I find it interesting that the car audio market has not caught on to this. Maybe we are in the minority. I don’t follow the market much anymore. I do remember looking at what mid lines were available maybe 4 or 5 years ago and thinking that I would wait until one of the manufacturers caught on and cleaned up one of their lines. I’m still waiting….lololol.
> 
> I guess I’m just an old fart reminiscing of my youth.


Must not be of the ipod generation


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

trojan fan said:


> .....And overpay for it :snacks:


Well, the price is a different issue, but there is no arguing that a lot of thought went into the design of the user interface of very Apple software and hardware product. They do not always get UI 100% right, but they certainly spend a lot time on it.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

trojan fan said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, but you made the choice to buy the HU...that's a YOU problem ....sell it and move on......:bash:


Well, for the price, Kenwood was a decent choice.. the competition is not much better really.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

I agree with you guys, but options are available! Just save up a little more and get a 99rs!


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

The electronics device industry is funny. The iPod and iPhone set the world on fire because of the ease of use and clean design. Car audio electronics on the other hand has an ongoing trend of crazy designs with several features buried deep within menu after menu and are more complex to use. However, a car radio is a device you operate while driving...what is wrong with this picture?

If I were to start a new car audio head unit company today I would make a deck with a clean design, iPod like driver friendly interface, and high fidelity. I would offer an AUDIOPHILE series and a BEATS Audio series.  I would change the game overnight!!! Just imagine if JL Audio or Alpine would release something like this at the 2012 CES? It would be the next best thing in this modern car audio era since mini full range class D amps! 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

WLDock said:


> The electronics device industry is funny. The iPod and iPhone set the world on fire because of the ease of use and clean design. Car audio electronics on the other hand has an ongoing trend of crazy designs with several features buried deep within menu after menu and are more complex to use. However, a car radio is a device you operate while driving...what is wrong with this picture?
> 
> If I were to start a new car audio head unit company today I would make a deck with a clean design, iPod like driver friendly interface, and high fidelity. I would offer an AUDIOPHILE series and a BEATS Audio series.  I would change the game overnight!!! Just imagine if JL Audio or Alpine would release something like this at the 2012 CES? It would be the next best thing in this modern car audio era since mini full range class D amps!
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


Couldn't agree more. Well said!


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

now.. do it : P


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## DiMora (Nov 14, 2011)

You have been given some great models to choose from...and they can be had in various price ranges.

If you are ready to join the modern world...and want a deck that sounds absolutely amazing...here is a great selection: Eclipse CD-7200 MK II

The cons:
Clunky menus for setup, clock runs fast, slow i-Pod menu interface, requires additional modules for i-Pod, Sirius, HD radio, and it requires an outboard amplifier - but once set-up...it is very simple to use, and is audiophile quality!

The pros:

Looks high-end (because it is)
Copper-plated chassis
Time-alignment, EQ, and parametric crossover built-in
24 bit Burr/Brown D/A converter
6 channel 8 volt pre-outs!

The new Alpines also offer huge bang-for-the-buck...and again, while complex...are very easy to use once set-up properly.

This kind of reminds me of my mother...she has a microwave...the thing is 30 years old and lives on a wheeled cart...but she won't get rid of it because there are two knobs on it. They are both rotary.

One is time, and one is power level. Dial in power. Dial in time. Push start. Done. 

I see where you are coming from - sometimes simplicity is extremely elegant - and I like that a lot - but I MUST have time alignment!!!!!! Mom is coming along...she is starting to use an i-Phone...so there is hope.


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

trojan fan said:


> What does audio accuracy mean to your wife


She is not an Audiophile but she did ask me to step up the audio in her car....which is why I was looking at mid-fi quality products to begin with.


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## DiMora (Nov 14, 2011)

Here you go...simple, elegant...expensive...but it is what you seek:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...000-mint-condition-mda5000-brand-new-box.html


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

$3800.00, is that in US dollars? EEK.....


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

DiMora said:


> Here you go...simple, elegant...expensive...but it is what you seek:
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...000-mint-condition-mda5000-brand-new-box.html


A little more than I want to spend.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Coppertone said:


> $3800.00, is that in US dollars? EEK.....


retarded, my whole system will cost that much. in a car, you wont hear the extra 1% better than is over a $500 HU


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

Wattser93 said:


> If somebody made a HU that looked at clean as the 99RS, with the features of a $200 head unit, I'd be all over that.



See but this is not the case in general. Joe Smoe who goes out to purchase a 200.00 head unit wants Bells whistles and colors. the audio companies produce for the 80% not for the 20%. its actually by the *grace* of having the 80% that items like the PRS-99 and stage four stuff can even afford to be made. *most* times high end car audio stuff does not have enough profit margin to be marketable on its own....
JMO YMMV


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

trojan fan said:


> .....And overpay for it :snacks:


But then you could only listen to music from the iTunes store, and it would send usage and settings data back to Apple constantly


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Only listen to music from the itunes store?

Do you have an ipod? This is not the case. I haven't had any problems playing music that I've acquired from all over the place. Yes, you do need to convert your flac files, but there are free converters readily available that do that just fine.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

harvylogan said:


> I find it interesting that the car audio market has not caught on to this. Maybe we are in the minority. I don’t follow the market much anymore. I do remember looking at what mid lines were available maybe 4 or 5 years ago and thinking that I would wait until one of the manufacturers caught on and cleaned up one of their lines. I’m still waiting….lololol.
> 
> I guess I’m just an old fart reminiscing of my youth.


I thought the same thing. Didn't happen. I'm still rocking stock because I haven't found anything new and my pile of Alpines is looking rather worn from years of use and re-use. I was hoping for something with USB capability or at least Aux In that didn't look like a Dance Dance Revolution in my dashboard. Or a pinball machine on attract-mode. Or a Las Vegas....forget it.

There is an Eclipse Double DIN out there that is bone simple. I think it's the CD1200G. Very basic looking but has USB and iPod control and red/green illumination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLHRHhM_1w4


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

^Wow that looks great


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

You could try to find a Rockford 8250.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

DaveRulz said:


> Only listen to music from the itunes store?
> 
> Do you have an ipod? This is not the case. I haven't had any problems playing music that I've acquired from all over the place. Yes, you do need to convert your flac files, but there are free converters readily available that do that just fine.


I know. I do, in fact, have an iPod, and it hooks to my Clarion DXZ785USB just fine. I was just being facetious about the iTunes store. I mean it about the "monitoring" part, though >_>


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

So you're saying that iTunes is going to send information back to Apple when you sync about what songs you are playing and what your settings are on your ipod? First of all, why would they bother, second of all, what's the big deal if they did?


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## Socalstangman (Sep 20, 2011)

The problem is that there arent many car audio philles around anymore. By my house,all the car audio places dont really sell any single din stereos over 200.00,and thats pushing it. Most people want the stuff for less than 100.00 with a free install. Last year I went to try and buy an Alpine 9887. I went to Al and Eds here in Socal and I was surprised that they werent in stock. The guy told me I was the first person to ever even want to buy one. Thats not what people went in there for. It sucks,but thats kind of where the market is...


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## ozone (Nov 27, 2011)

Personally, I agree with the OP. I'm fixing up my old car and eliminating the 23 year old stereo. I have never had a really nice sounding system in a car and I decided this time would be different, but when I go looking for head units, they are all pretty much the same. You can either go with a $1000 plus unit, where you feel like you have to be invited to purchase it, or you can get a $60.00 unit with more lights and gadgets than you would ever use. How much different/better are the $300 units? By spending more, you seem to get more features (HD radio, sat nav, iPod control, USB, etc) but not better sound quality. Features are great, but I think there should be a good core of things the receiver does before it gets add-ons. Electronics are cheap these days, I'm walking around with a 1GHz processor on the phone in my pocket and it's getting old already. Is there really no room for a mid level unit? Speaker manufacturers have low, mid and high grade, why not receiver manufacturers. Instead of a $1000 Pioneer with 4, 24bit DACs, a 31 band equalizer and a copper chassis, how about a $400 unit with half that? Many people say that customers don't really buy that way, but maybe they don't buy that way because they can't. Why would someone even buy an aftermarket receiver anyway? Why not just use the one in the car? I thought it was because they wanted better sound. Guess I'm wrong.

I've been cruising around sonicelectronix, crutchfield, woofersetc and it just seems like no one's paying attention to how good the thing sounds.

I'm not totally old school. I do want some new features like a USB input, but what do people use a rear USB port for? Because I'm doing my own dash, I could handle that by mounting it somewhere, but do other people just leave that tail dangling there?

I think I'm the only one that is interested in speed sensitive volume. There was one on a Mazda 6 I rented and I thought that was pretty cool, because my wife is always complaining that she turns on the car and gets blasted by the volume level. That's because I drive with the top down on the highway and when I exit and drive home, just sort of forget to turn it down, but it is really loud and I should. I'm sure a lot of you would think that's gimmicky, but it seems like the kind of feature you would find in a car stereo doesn't it? It certainly isn't much use in a home stereo.

Also, I really like a volume knob. You don't have to hunt around for it. And I really don't want a detachable faceplate. Do you guys really bring the face of your car radio with you whenever you exit the car? Man, I just know I would leave that thing somewhere or accidentally sit on it. Plus it feels so cheap when you turn the knob and the whole face moves (I know high quality ones don't do that).

Multicolored displays? Pulease. . . I bought some RGB LED's and an RGB dimmer on eBay. Any color I want for a total of $10.00. I can't believe all of them don't have this.

Sorry for the rant, but it is a little frustrating. I still don't have a head unit picked out, but all my other components are falling into place and I'm finding it difficult to find something I want. I think the Pioneer Stage 4 CD receiver comes closest to what I would want, but no way I'm paying $1000 for a head unit. I'm actually not an audiophile, but I just don't want my music to sound like it did with my 23 year old stock head unit and a couple of deteriorating infinity speakers. I want something in the middle, you know, like the OP said.


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## Sukebe (Mar 1, 2008)

How about a Nakamichi? 

The CD-45z was the simplest SQ h/u I could find back in the day. Only down side was occasional problems playing cd-r discs, but that was overcome by burning at <4x speed.


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## slipchuck (Dec 19, 2011)

harvylogan said:


> I have been an audiophile for over 30 years. I have invested thousands of dollars in designing and building both car and home systems. My question is this. Why are car head units so busy it is downright silly? Personally, I prefer in-dash pre amp only units that are audiophile quality audio. However, I have been looking for about a year for a simple (read volume knob, bass knob, treble knob, balance and tuner buttons) decent sounding head unit that my wife will actually USE. Virtually all of the head units I have found in the $200-$400 range are ridicules. The designers seem to think it’s more important to load them with useless features that make you have to pan through 5 functions to get to the balance control. This requires a 200 page owner’s manual that needs to be kept within reach so one can pull into a rest stop and read how to set the local/distant switch on the tuner. Factory installed units for the most part have not lost the simplicity of design philosophy. So why has the aftermarket mid-fi made a left turn?
> 
> Excuse the rant but I can’t be the only one that feels this way.
> 
> Harvy


I am with you. I just retired a old school Blaupunkt and bought a used Clarion and I am down right scared of all the bells and whistles. looks not that great but hoping the SQ will be a move for the better.

randy


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Eclipse CD 8053, look it up pm me and then buy it end of story.


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## Sascha1980 (Oct 9, 2015)

THIS is the look I need: Sony RSX-GS9

But I don't need High-End DSD... All I want is a volume knob and an AUX-In... the sound I can manage via my iPhone

Any new ideas where to find this?


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## dsw1204 (Mar 23, 2015)

Just curious, Harvy. I just tuned into this thread and thought it was interesting reading. Did you ever find what you were looking for? It seemed like most responders did not get what you were after. I can't believe someone would recommend to you a Pioneer P99. That is definitely a great deck, but come on, it certainly is not a simple one to operate.

Now, I don't think I caught in this thread if you needed an AUX input or USB input. But, because most women I know aren't hooking up their Iphones (or Ipods) to their car stereo, I think I would recommend something along the way of an Eclipse 55040, 55060, or 55090. These decks are nothing fancy to look at. Not a lot of flashing lights (what flashing lights they do offer, you can opt to eliminate them), no processing, just great SQ listening. Extremely clean sounding decks. Nothing very complicated about using these decks, either.

I still use an Eclipse 55040. I've never had a problem with it and the music still sounds extremely dynamic. I doubt you can find an unused one, today. Although, I do see an Eclipse 55090 pop up on Ebay, that is still new, every now and then.

Just my 2 cents. But did you, Harvy, pick out that head unit for your wife? If so, which one did you decide upon?


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

dsw1204 said:


> Just curious, Harvy. I just tuned into this thread and thought it was interesting reading. Did you ever find what you were looking for? It seemed like most responders did not get what you were after. I can't believe someone would recommend to you a Pioneer P99. That is definitely a great deck, but come on, it certainly is not a simple one to operate.
> 
> Now, I don't think I caught in this thread if you needed an AUX input or USB input. But, because most women I know aren't hooking up their Iphones (or Ipods) to their car stereo, I think I would recommend something along the way of an Eclipse 55040, 55060, or 55090. These decks are nothing fancy to look at. Not a lot of flashing lights (what flashing lights they do offer, you can opt to eliminate them), no processing, just great SQ listening. Extremely clean sounding decks. Nothing very complicated about using these decks, either.
> 
> ...


Many things have come about in the last 4-5 years....since I started this thread. As I see it, car audio for the most part has gone digital. Not that that is a bad thing, I just prefer analog. Many automobiles don't have factory head units anymore, they combine all of the functions of audio, temp control, navigation and convenience settings into a control unit that has a display in the center of the dash. My 2013 Charger is a case in point. I couldn't put a conventional head unit in it if I wanted to unless I surgically create a cutout in the dash which I have no interest in doing. What I can do, what I have chosen to do, in both of my vehicles so far is pick up the RCA (low voltage) outputs somewhere down stream of the head unit and pipe them into a decent analog active crossover. Then I build a good high quality system from that point. This serves two purposes. I get the simplicity of a factory head unit (which is not always that simple but for the most part audio navigation is much simpler than most aftermarket stuff), and I get to keep my analog system. So far it has worked out pretty well. I haven't even looked at aftermarket head units in 3 or 4 years. I really have no interest. As far as my wife, she likes the factory stuff anyway because it is simple to change the volume so she is happy.


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

harvylogan said:


> .......in both of my vehicles so far is pick up the RCA (low voltage) outputs somewhere down stream of the head unit and pipe them into a decent analog active crossover. Then I build a good high quality system from that point. This serves two purposes. I get the simplicity of a factory head unit (which is not always that simple but for the most part audio navigation is much simpler than most aftermarket stuff), and I get to keep my analog system..........


Let me first state that I am a huge fan of analog audio. My AKAI reel to reel was the only physical possession I regret ever losing. However, many, no, MOST very new vehicles (like, let's say 2013 and newer) do NOT have fully analog factory audio systems. It is often a digital signal from the source unit to the amplifier module. I'm trying to think, what SOURCES in a modern car radio are analog? AM/FM radio.....from an audiophile's (who loves analog) point of view, if the source itself isn't analog, then can the system be considered "analog"?


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## harvylogan (Nov 19, 2009)

Niick said:


> Let me first state that I am a huge fan of analog audio. My AKAI reel to reel was the only physical possession I regret ever losing. However, many, no, MOST very new vehicles (like, let's say 2013 and newer) do NOT have fully analog factory audio systems. It is often a digital signal from the source unit to the amplifier module. I'm trying to think, what SOURCES in a modern car radio are analog? AM/FM radio.....from an audiophile's (who loves analog) point of view, if the source itself isn't analog, then can the system be considered "analog"?


Agreed
But short of putting a turntable or tape deck in the car I will have to settle for a good D/A converter. So far the ones contained in the cars audio systems I have have been good enough. I do prefer CD format to any other even at home, although my wife prefers her Music Hall turntable. I have literally thousands of dollars invested in our CD collection and have no intention of changing until I am forced to for some reason.


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## dsw1204 (Mar 23, 2015)

harvylogan said:


> Many things have come about in the last 4-5 years....since I started this thread. As I see it, car audio for the most part has gone digital. Not that that is a bad thing, I just prefer analog. Many automobiles don't have factory head units anymore, they combine all of the functions of audio, temp control, navigation and convenience settings into a control unit that has a display in the center of the dash. My 2013 Charger is a case in point. I couldn't put a conventional head unit in it if I wanted to unless I surgically create a cutout in the dash which I have no interest in doing. What I can do, what I have chosen to do, in both of my vehicles so far is pick up the RCA (low voltage) outputs somewhere down stream of the head unit and pipe them into a decent analog active crossover. Then I build a good high quality system from that point. This serves two purposes. I get the simplicity of a factory head unit (which is not always that simple but for the most part audio navigation is much simpler than most aftermarket stuff), and I get to keep my analog system. So far it has worked out pretty well. I haven't even looked at aftermarket head units in 3 or 4 years. I really have no interest. As far as my wife, she likes the factory stuff anyway because it is simple to change the volume so she is happy.


Yeah, it is very difficult to get an aftermarket head unit in any automobile probably since about 2005 or so because of how car manufacturers are integrating the sound system (and everything under the sun) into their vehicles. Fortunately for me, I am driving an older vehicle and can put a nice head unit into it's dash. Actually, I am about to replace the Eclipse 55040 with an Eclipse CD8051 (I really like the older Eclipse head units). It's a very simple, very high quality head unit.

Your solution for your situation seems to be very ingenious. I will have to remember your "fix" when it comes time for me to get a newer vehicle that has all that integration built into it.

I am glad you answered back after an almost four year hiatus from your your last post.


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

There are many unmentioned Alpine single dins with 3 way filters and an easily tapped (not for the faint of heart) AI-Net connection to use as an Aux in. I'm thinking of the deadhead units with the external DC-DC converters. Most of them had T/A as well.


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