# OMG, A Dan Wiggins Sighting!



## CaseyWalsh (Jul 25, 2005)

So, Dan, whatcha been up to? Do you have any cool projects going that you’d like to share with the class?


----------



## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

I'm a little lost here


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I can't think of one other person whose contributed so much to the DIY community. Glad to see he's still around.


----------



## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

I'm sure it will be like it was when he was with Adire...he can't openly discuss a lot of his OEM work. I know he was quite satisfied with some work he did with Microsoft...and he's still working with Exodus Audio and Creative Sound Solutions (although I believe it's a more active role with Exodus).

Maybe the most interesting XBL^2 product in the future is one that Kevin from Exodus is developing. It's an 18" driver with a ton of throw (at least 40+mm), 14" spiders with some "tricks", particularly with lead integration (although Kevin confirmed it will not use the Arachnid suspension), and a counter-coil. The end result will be extremely linear, almost unprecedented output for a single driver.


----------



## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

DevilDriver said:


> Maybe the most interesting XBL^2 product in the future is one that Kevin from Exodus is developing. It's an 18" driver with a ton of throw (at least 40+mm), 14" spiders with some "tricks", particularly with lead integration (although Kevin confirmed it will not use the Arachnid suspension), and a counter-coil. The end result will be extremely linear, almost unprecedented output for a single driver.


o.0

Do I see my next IB Driver...


----------



## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

CaseyWalsh said:


> So, Dan, whatcha been up to? Do you have any cool projects going that you’d like to share with the class?


http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=50871.0

Other than that, well there's a ton of stuff going on. Most of it in the sub 2" market. Yes, I even did a 13mm x 19mm XBL driver (with 1.2mm Xmax - equivalent to a 12" driver with 26mm of stroke). Lots of little, high output, ultra-wide bandwidth stuff.

And yes, XBL tweeters are coming to life... Fs down in the 600 Hz range, and stroke in the 2mm range, meaning you can get usable output levels down that low.

Oh, one last thing: http://www.pasub.com - note however, that it's aimed at OEMs. So unless you're looking to buy several dozen at a shot you'll have to wait for the distribution network to become public.


----------



## CaseyWalsh (Jul 25, 2005)

DanWiggins said:


> ...Oh, one last thing: http://www.pasub.com - note however, that it's aimed at OEMs. So unless you're looking to buy several dozen at a shot you'll have to wait for the distribution network to become public.


Wow, 40mm linear xmax for a PA sub -- and decent efficiency to boot!
It's good to see you're still innovating.


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DanWiggins said:


> Other than that, well there's a ton of stuff going on. Most of it in the sub 2" market. Yes, I even did a 13mm x 19mm XBL driver (with 1.2mm Xmax - equivalent to a 12" driver with 26mm of stroke). Lots of little, high output, ultra-wide bandwidth stuff.


So when are we getting more info on these? Ultra-wide bandwidth? How many octaves are we talking about?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I like the 5 inch voice coil on this 18"  

excerpt}
Motor design for lots of linear BL. 

This is +/- 1% out to 42mm.... ONE WAY! X-max is about 55-56mm one-way! 

For a frame of reference, the TC Sounds LMS-5400 was listed as having +/- 1% linear BL out to 30mm, and X-max at 38mm one-way. That gives us a full extra inch of linear (+/- 1% BL) peak-peak throw. 

end

An eighteen inch piston that has an Xmax of 55mm  [ now that's what I'm talkin bout  ].


----------



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

wow....really good to see you doing good for yourself dan 

hope things go well!! keep up the incredible work


----------



## mowry (Feb 24, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> I like the 5 inch voice coil on this 18"
> 
> excerpt}
> Motor design for lots of linear BL.
> ...


I don't think so. The voice coil wind height is listed as 22.5 mm. That would put Xmax based on the motor alone at about 21 mm peak, 42 mm peak to peak. Can anyone design a spider and/or surround that can go 55 - 56 mm one way, 110 - 112 mm p-p? I don't think I can but I have never tried. 

If my suspicions are correct, the specs for PASUB are misleading and/or incorrect.


----------



## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

mowry said:


> I don't think so. The voice coil wind height is listed as 22.5 mm. That would put Xmax based on the motor alone at about 21 mm peak, 42 mm peak to peak. Can anyone design a spider and/or surround that can go 55 - 56 mm one way, 110 - 112 mm p-p? I don't think I can but I have never tried.
> 
> If my suspicions are correct, the specs for PASUB are misleading and/or incorrect.


Steve,

The quote you referenced is for Exodus Audio's SICKO project.

And it's entirely possible to do a suspension to 55mm; heck back in 2004 we did one to 140mm one way (that was 140mm for a 10% change in Cms, but the motor was only good to 70mm one way as the BL dropped to 70% at that point) and showed it at CES. It was a 3" VC with an 8" OD spider, with 280mm p-p linear suspension excursion. It was called the Parthenon. Here's a video of the motor and suspension happily pumping away (for scale, that is a 3.018" VCID former):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBN33UVQWSo

Doing only 55mm one way is pretty simple. I've been doing extreme excursion stuff for a LONG time, stuff that actually exists. Recently most of my work has been in tiny things, but it's fun making 20mm full range speakers that have 3mm one way linear stroke, and depth of 10mm - equivalent to a 12" woofer having 1.8" of one way linear stroke and 6" of depth.

With careful attention to suspension, motor, and frame design it's pretty scary just how far you can go; right now I can reach about 30% of total driver height in terms of stroke, pretty darn near the theoretical limit of 33%. But I think I've got a way around that, too...


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

DanWiggins said:


> Oh, one last thing: http://www.pasub.com - note however, that it's aimed at OEMs. So unless you're looking to buy several dozen at a shot you'll have to wait for the distribution network to become public.


Just wondering on that sub line. Seems to have a VERY powerful motor and just glancing at the specs, not looking too deep, makes me wonder....

What would these do in a horn?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

The PA540 is a very high output subwoofer designed for professional
audio sound reinforcement applications. It features extremely long linear
throw, very high power handling, and operational parameters usable is a
variety of enclosures optimized for output between 30 Hz and 500 Hz.
The subwoofer features a high clearance, open cast frame, special
paper-pulp cone, linear suspension, our patented (US PAT 7039213)
XBL™ motor technology, our patent-pending AFACT™ asymmetric
forced air cooling technology, and a compact neo based motor.

It would probably ROCK !


----------



## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

Fortunately, Dan is still around -- behind the scenes mostly. Glad to see him back on at least one forum posting around a bit


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I'm not a horn designer so I really don't know what to look for in the "down-n-dirty" of a driver that would be suited for that purpose. But the Lab Sub and EAW variants that use a 12" high excursion driver just flat out rock!

Granted an effective horn is big, but you can use less of them as demonstrated by said designs and Danley's servodrives. And with line array technology getting smaller and smaller a center packed horn array that is extremely potent can cuts touring costs dramatically in terms of fuel, amount of trucks, and labor needed.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

That's what I'm hoping for my IDMAXes


----------



## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

chad said:


> Just wondering on that sub line. Seems to have a VERY powerful motor and just glancing at the specs, not looking too deep, makes me wonder....
> 
> What would these do in a horn?


Strong motor paired with a lot of linear stroke and high power handling means you've got a damned good horn candidate, in my opinion. The challenge, as you alluded to, is to do a compact enough horn to have much effect at low frequencies, which is where you utilize different loading techniques or something like Danley's concept of summing the front wave and rearwave at the throat.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

DevilDriver said:


> Strong motor paired with a lot of linear stroke and high power handling means you've got a damned good horn candidate, in my opinion. The challenge, as you alluded to, is to do a compact enough horn to have much effect at low frequencies, which is where you utilize different loading techniques or something like Danley's concept of summing the front wave and rearwave at the throat.


Yeah, tapped horns look cool for live use but unfortunately I have yet to use them. I tried to get them here to buy some for an upcoming install but they nuked the site from orbit.

Bassmaxx's are badass too!


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

DanWiggins said:


> Other than that, well there's a ton...es yes, more info please. Stop teasing.:cool:


----------



## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

Weightless said:


> So when are we getting more info on these? Ultra-wide bandwidth? How many octaves are we talking about?


Well, there are 10 octaves, so if you want to be a real full range you need to cover all 10, with enough displacement to do justice for the first octave.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

DanWiggins said:


> Well, there are 10 octaves, so if you want to be a real full range you need to cover all 10, with enough displacement to do justice for the first octave.


How about just the last 8 octaves? A 2" driver that is too deep is impractical in the car, plus how do you plan on dealing with the modulating upper frequencies? I imagine efficiency will suffer as well?


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

durwood said:


> How about just the last 8 octaves? A 2" driver that is too deep is impractical in the car, plus how do you plan on dealing with the modulating upper frequencies? I imagine efficiency will suffer as well?


The CAR? hehe....I dont think the car is focus for a 2" marble slinger.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

3.5max6spd said:


> The CAR? hehe....I dont think the car is focus for a 2" marble slinger.


For me it is...an array of them I forgot this was the home/other audio section of this site. Doh!


----------



## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

DanWiggins said:


> Well, there are 10 octaves, so if you want to be a real full range you need to cover all 10, with enough displacement to do justice for the first octave.


Glad to see you on here mate.


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DanWiggins said:


> Well, there are 10 octaves, so if you want to be a real full range you need to cover all 10, with enough displacement to do justice for the first octave.


I'm not really looking for full range, just as you stated, ultra-wide range. Maybe the upper 7-8 octaves.

If you could pull off a full range that could play down to <80hz, then great. but It is not a requirement of mine. Maybe 150-200hz would be nice.

And as far as this being just for home audio...Isn't, or should I say wasn't this site about trying new drivers in car audio applications? Even home drivers?


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Subscribed. That 18inch sub sounds amazing. I will be in market for one in a few months.


----------



## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

durwood said:


> How about just the last 8 octaves? A 2" driver that is too deep is impractical in the car, plus how do you plan on dealing with the modulating upper frequencies? I imagine efficiency will suffer as well?


Well, we really don't do drivers for consumer applications; we design and source for OEMs only, so if they need a driver like that for consumer resell then it comes to life.

I will say that I did a 2" widerange driver that was +/- 2.5 dB from 100 Hz to 20 kHz, 25mm VC for 20W power handling, 4mm of one way XBL goodness, and measured THD+N below 2% at 92 dB SPL from 100 Hz and up (below 1% above 500 Hz). It's being used in a VOIP conferencing phone, so low THD is critical (echo cancellers hate THD+N), and there is 100% screening of all speakers so I've got historical data on a few tens of thousands... It's used in a 100cc sealed enclosure. It would probably carry a $15 retail price in typical consumer pricing structures.

But in general, we'll do drivers for other companies, not direct to consumer. So if some enterprising company/person wants to do an OEM run that could be arranged. No use in VOIP solutions, however - that's locked up for this design.


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

What voip company? Cisco? Tandberg?


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

DanWiggins said:


> But in general, we'll do drivers for other companies, not direct to consumer. So if some enterprising company/person wants to do an OEM run that could be arranged. No use in VOIP solutions, however - that's locked up for this design.


Does that mean the 2" is owned by them, or do you mean no one else is allowed to use them for VOIP apps?

IF you were going to do a small run for consumer usage, how many drivers are we talking about (100, 1000, 10,000+)? If my tangband's don't work out, another alternative to the peerless 2" would be nice. I'm looking for something to use in an experimental center channel ambiophonic array of about 8 drivers total. The future wife would kill me if I had to invest a small fortune just for an experiment.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

durwood said:


> IF you were going to do a small run for consumer usage, how many drivers are we talking about (100, 1000, 10,000+)? If my tangband's don't work out, another alternative to the peerless 2" would be nice. I'm looking for something to use in an experimental center channel ambiophonic array of about 8 drivers total. The future wife would kill me if I had to invest a small fortune just for an experiment.


I'd be in with ya on a purchase. Got a few ideas I'd like to try as well.


----------



## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

DanWiggins said:


> Well, we really don't do drivers for consumer applications; we design and source for OEMs only, so if they need a driver like that for consumer resell then it comes to life.
> 
> I will say that I did a 2" widerange driver that was +/- 2.5 dB from 100 Hz to 20 kHz, 25mm VC for 20W power handling, 4mm of one way XBL goodness, and measured THD+N below 2% at 92 dB SPL from 100 Hz and up (below 1% above 500 Hz). It's being used in a VOIP conferencing phone, so low THD is critical (echo cancellers hate THD+N), and there is 100% screening of all speakers so I've got historical data on a few tens of thousands... It's used in a 100cc sealed enclosure. It would probably carry a $15 retail price in typical consumer pricing structures.
> 
> But in general, we'll do drivers for other companies, not direct to consumer. So if some enterprising company/person wants to do an OEM run that could be arranged. No use in VOIP solutions, however - that's locked up for this design.


What kind of OEM volumes are we talking about? A 2" that could be used to create proper Sound pressure levels from 100 Hz and up is clearly intresting. 

How sensitive is the design for various volumes?
(for those not fluent in Metrics 100 cc is a 1/10th of litre)
If the driver does what's mentioned above it would be the perfect A-pillar canditate.


----------

