# Supreme Sound Audio Opamp upgrade for Car Amplifiers



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

G'day,

This is Alex from Supreme Sound Audio. We are part of Burson Audio, based in Melbourne, Australia, we have been building discrete type audio opamps for nearly 10 years.

Recently we have introduced the fifth generation of our SS Audio OPA and finally, it is small enough and power supply friendly enough to be used in high end car audio. : ) 

Burson Audio – Supreme Sound Opamp V5

How does it work? 

In any audio amplifier there are opamps. They are as important in audio amplification as lens in a camera. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_amplifier



Pull out the inferior stock opamp and plug in the SS OPA for superior sound. 


Please let me know if you want to try this upgrade absolutely free. : )

To work out if our opamps can fit into your amps, could we please take the below steps?

1. Post a top-down photo of the internal PCB of your amp. Based on that we'll work out how many opamps it has and which ones could be changed to our Supreme Sound Opamps. 

2. Tell us the existing opamps model numbers, which some of you have done already. : ) 

3. Measure and tell us the height clearance between the PCB and the amp's enclosure. If there isn't enough clearance then we may have to figure out ways around it.

4. We'll select 5 participants for this round who will be invited to share their honest feedback in this thread.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I`m you guinea pig. I`l love to give it a try.


----------



## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

I have BB 627 OpAmp's in my amplifiers currently. Would love to try yours to see if there's a difference.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> I`m you guinea pig. I`l love to give it a try.


Sounds good. : ) May I ask the brand and model of your amplifier and if you know the type and model of Opamp/s that are currently in there? Which these information, I will be able to find out if our audio opamps are suitable for your amplifier. : )


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

lsm said:


> I have BB 627 OpAmp's in my amplifiers currently. Would love to try yours to see if there's a difference.


Our single version SS audio op-amp is the perfect upgrade for the BB627. What brand and model is your amplifier? How many BurBrown OPA627 are there? And are the OPA627 currently plugged into IC sockets or are they soldered into the PCB? : ) I am assuming that the OPA627 in your unit are through hold types not SMD types, is that correct?


----------



## Audiophilefred (Oct 24, 2012)

Me me me


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm up for this. I even have ic sockets installed for easy swap. I am currently running the factory 5532 in my amps but had intended to swap for bb 627's just never got around to it. 

amps are Image dynamics q1200.1 and 2x q700.2


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

BursonAudio said:


> Sounds good. : ) May I ask the brand and model of your amplifier and if you know the type and model of Opamp/s that are currently in there? Which these information, I will be able to find out if our audio opamps are suitable for your amplifier. : )


2904 converted to dip8 sockets. Brax X1400


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I loved the Burson opamps that I played with nearly a decade a go, so these should be incredible.

Kudos for you guys thinking about the car audio market.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

show physical dimensions of the latest sizes that make car audio inclusion possible, I'm sure our tweaker types will have to have these...

"turns a SoundStream Ref into Sinfoni"


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> 2904 converted to dip8 sockets. Brax X1400





Brian_smith06; said:


> I'm up for this. I even have ic sockets installed for easy swap. I am currently running the factory 5532 in my amps but had intended to swap for bb 627's just never got around to it. amps are Image dynamics q1200.1 and 2x q700.2





ISM; said:


> I have BB 627 OpAmp's in my amplifiers currently. Would love to try yours to see if there's a difference.





Audiophilefred said:


> me me me


Hi Guys, thank you for your overwhelming interest. "thehatedguy" thank you for your kind words, which version of our opamps have you tried? 

To work out if our opamps can fit into your amps, could we please take the below steps?

1. Post a top-down photo of the internal PCB of your amp. Based on that we'll work out how many opamps it has and which ones could be changed to our Supreme Sound Opamps. 

2. Tell us the existing opamps model numbers, which some of you have done already. : ) 

3. Measure and tell us the height clearance between the PCB and the amp's enclosure. If there isn't enough clearance then we may have to figure out ways around it.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

cajunner said:


> show physical dimensions of the latest sizes that make car audio inclusion possible, I'm sure our tweaker types will have to have these...
> 
> "turns a SoundStream Ref into Sinfoni"


Sure, I will update those details asap.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Could you just post a picture of one in dip8 connection, say 2409 replacement?


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> Could you just post a picture of one in dip8 connection, say 2409 replacement?


I just did on my first post. I could not post pictures before, but now I can.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

BursonAudio said:


> I just did on my first post. I could not post pictures before, but now I can.


can see it now.
29mm high with pins or inserted? either way it should fit in my amp.
may I have a couple please?


----------



## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

BursonAudio said:


> Our single version SS audio op-amp is the perfect upgrade for the BB627. What brand and model is your amplifier? How many BurBrown OPA627 are there? And are the OPA627 currently plugged into IC sockets or are they soldered into the PCB? : ) I am assuming that the OPA627 in your unit are through hold types not SMD types, is that correct?


My amps are TRU Technology B2110 and B2200. I don't remember the number of OpAmps...I'm going to guess six until I can get home and check. The OpAmps are installed into sockets so they are easy to swap out. I will submit pictures tomorrow as well. Thanks!

I also have a Milbert BaM-235 Tube Amplifier but I'm not sure what OpAmps it has. I'll check on that tomorrow as well.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

wowza!

I would love a pair of V 5 myself!

those are awesome. I remember looking at these back when they were huge.

I'm afraid this will end up costing me money, as I believe the op-amp does have a noticeable effect on the sound...


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi guys, Op-amp plays a critical role in audio performance. The other factor is power supply but that's less critical for car audio as your amplifiers are already running on battery power. : )


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The ones I played around with were probably v1s...it was around the same time people were making a big fuss over the audio-gd Sun, Moon, and Earth models, which I don't even know if those guys are still in business.

You guys make great products.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

There shouldn't be any in the audio circuit that I recall.



lsm said:


> I also have a Milbert BaM-235 Tube Amplifier but I'm not sure what OpAmps it has. I'll check on that tomorrow as well.


----------



## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> There shouldn't be any in the audio circuit that I recall.


Thanks I wasn't sure...


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

I'll upload some more pics of mine tomorrow. 

My amps are modded though and had some of the "unnecessary" stuff removed. They should each only have one opamp

Hated guy would know on my amps though if he would like to verify?


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Amplifier is a Genesis Dual Mono. 

There are 3 op amps. 2 are the same model, the third is a different model and appears to be in the crossover section of the board. 

2 op-amps model ST TL071CN
single op-amp model ST TL074CN

Height between PCB and rear cover- 1" exactly.


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

cajunner said:


> show physical dimensions of the latest sizes that make car audio inclusion possible, I'm sure our tweaker types will have to have these...
> 
> "turns a SoundStream Ref into Sinfoni"


I see what you did there. Ha..

Very cool of these guys to offer this!


----------



## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Would these OP Amps be a good upgrade for my Mosconi AS200.4 and AS300.2 amplifiers?


----------



## Kazuhiro (Apr 28, 2015)

4 x μPC4570, stock with nakamichi pa304 amp, with about 2 - 2.5cm clearance. 

Can much be done? there is plenty of horizontal space

On a side note good luck on sunday...will be a great final!


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi Guys, thanks again for your strong interest in this topic! Please keep the photos and amp details coming and we'll select 5 members early next week. (Melbourne Cup long weekend over here in OZ.) : ) Cheers.


----------



## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

Here's some pics of the pre-amp cards from my TRU amplifiers. One amp uses two custom made stereo BB627 OpAmps and the other uses three mono 627's. Please let me know if you need more information. Thanks


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

q1200.1


q700.2





Im not entirely sure what the depth is but I have been considering swapping out the bottom panel for plexi so I could def build something around the op amp if depth is an issue.


----------



## SQ Audi (Dec 21, 2010)

I am very interested. I will get pictures as soon as I can. Amplifiers are Focal Solid 4's (x2) and a Solid 1.


----------



## Kazuhiro (Apr 28, 2015)

This one is a little old but NJM4560L with 2cm clearance if possible!


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Looking forward to listening impressions!


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Wish there was some way to use these inside my Denon CD player...no way on Earth they would fit.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Send me some, those look interesting.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

lsm said:


> Here's some pics of the pre-amp cards from my TRU amplifiers. One amp uses two custom made stereo BB627 OpAmps and the other uses three mono 627's. Please let me know if you need more information. Thanks


I can't believe TRU would use such cheap sockets....


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Come on man, it`s a socket, it`s either works or it doesn`t.


----------



## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I just ordered some BB opa2134pa for all of my Phoenix Gold MS series amps. I have right around 1 1/2 inches of clearance.

Here is my Phoenix Gold MS-275 with sockets already installed and BB opa2134pa already installed.









Here is my Phoenix gold ms-2125 with the factory opamps still in there. I'll get better pictures tomorrow and supply the part number of the original opamps:









I also have Phoenix gold MQ-430 and an MS-250 that I could try it out in. I can also look in my Butler tuber driver TD-750 to see what's in there.

Even if I'm not chosen in this study I'd likely want to try them out in at least one of my amps. I do other upgrades like audio grade caps in all of my amps so this is a possible next step for me.


----------



## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

DLS A3 twin mono for the test.
View attachment 98801


View attachment 98809


View attachment 98817


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

any updates on this?


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I was first to post reply, I`d think that would matter, still waiting.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I think if I were changing, I would take something over the 2134. I mean it's a good opamp, leaps and bounds better than stock. But then again in those older amps something too fast or with too high of a current draw might make for an unstable circuit...and oscillating opamps isn't my idea of fun.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

I had used opa2134 recently on both older Soundstream reference and waffle style RF amps. Tested them for couple hours both full range and low. They seem to be quite stable. If you replace them in place of TL072 they can become unstable and create noise/distortion. I also had done few with opa2604 in other amps including Brax x2000.2 which their Graphic edition uses.

I would love to try these special opamps on my Mcintosh mcc404 that I am using personally which I had full power supply recap plus Nichicon fine gold muse/fg mini caps replaced.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi Guys, we are back from our Melbourne Cup holiday. 

Thank you all again for your wonderful photos and comments. We have read though all of your comments and studies all of the photos posted here. We have selected 5 participants and we'll be PMing them in the coming hours. Once they give us the ok, we'll formally announce their User Names here. 

Even if you missed out on this round, please keep posting your amp photos and opamp details onto the thread. We will continue to be active in this thread and we'll read all of your posts. 

Once the first 5 participants have posted their feedback, we'll immediately start another round of trails. : )


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Here are some pictures of mcc404 that I am using personally

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...c404 recap board 001_zpskmxrzr08.jpg.html?o=7

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...c404 recap board 003_zpslbhewzv8.jpg.html?o=1

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...c404 recap board 002_zpspxiulkxn.jpg.html?o=6

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...c404 recap board 004_zpsbhffrisn.jpg.html?o=2

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...c404 recap board 006_zpshwv2vxt2.jpg.html?o=3


----------



## bilbo6209 (Oct 12, 2015)

If you want to play with an older amp, I have a US Acoustics 4065 (not the ZED  ) 

From what I am seeing I am only seeing 1 thing that might be the opAmp but I'm not sure. It is marked 
qtc
4N35
0120k

here are some pics
PCB








close up off what I think is the opAmp








and height of case
http://i.imgur.com/EJbVmZe.jpg

I would love to be a guinea pig on this


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

US Acoustics 4065. Looks like a fully discrete design! So no opamps in there. : ) congratulations. Not many manufacturer are willing to take this approach anymore.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Any chance to make some flying leads so you could slightly remote mount the opamp in a really tight space?


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Any chance to make some flying leads so you could slightly remote mount the opamp in a really tight space?


Looks like they do have an extension kit they offer. I would link it but for some reason cant click it.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

The SS Opamp is directly replaceable with the following opamps

Dual Op-amps: 
AD823, AD823AN, AD8066, AD8620, AD712, AD827, C4570, JRC4580, JRC5532, JRC5532D, JRC5534, LF353, LM4562, LME49860, LM833N, MUSES8920, NE5532, NEC4520, NEC4570, NJM2068D, NJM2114, NJM2214D, NJM4558, NJM4558D, NJM4560, NJM5532, NJM4558P, OP275, OPA1612, OPA2277PA, OPA2132, OPA2134, OPA2604, JRC4558, RC4558D, RC4558P, TL052, TL072

Well looks like it will work for most if not all of the op amps used in today's amplifiers.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> Any chance to make some flying leads so you could slightly remote mount the opamp in a really tight space?


We do offer extension legs. High quality too. solid core copper so you can bend it into any angle and will stay that way. : ) 



You can find it at the bottom of our V5 SS Audio Opamp page.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

TrickyRicky said:


> The SS Opamp is directly replaceable with the following opamps
> 
> Dual Op-amps:
> AD823, AD823AN, AD8066, AD8620, AD712, AD827, C4570, JRC4580, JRC5532, JRC5532D, JRC5534, LF353, LM4562, LME49860, LM833N, MUSES8920, NE5532, NEC4520, NEC4570, NJM2068D, NJM2114, NJM2214D, NJM4558, NJM4558D, NJM4560, NJM5532, NJM4558P, OP275, OPA1612, OPA2277PA, OPA2132, OPA2134, OPA2604, JRC4558, RC4558D, RC4558P, TL052, TL072
> ...


Yes our SS Audio Opamp can replace all dual and single version opamps as long as you give it 9V with 7mA of current. Therefore, they are ideal for car audio amplifiers. 

The list above is also not comprehensive and we are adding to it everyday based on customer queries. Therefore, if you have an opamp which is not yet on our list, please let me know and I will check out if ours can replace it. 

Cheers,


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Here are the 5 participants selected to sample the SS Audio Opamp.

Ism (V5 SS OPA - Single Version)
Brian_smith06 (V5 SS OPA - Dual Version)
soccerguru607 (V5 SS OPA - Dual Version)
Victor_inox (V5 SS OPA - Dual Version)
Samples sent by Fedex. : ) 

vwdave (V5 SS OPA - Dual Version)

Dave, please inform us of your delivery address asap. either PM me or email us on [email protected]

We look forward to your evaluation and your project photos with anticipation.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Pm sent, Thank you!


----------



## drumcrusher (May 4, 2008)

Hi man, just ran across this page. Ive been doing pretty esxtensive mods ( including opams for a while would love to try some of these out. Currently working on zapco studios, very early haflers, from the pre-rockford days, some alpine duo b designs from the 80's and a lot of the Monitor 1 amps made by the Zapco build house. Not a lot of room under the hearsinks on many of those really. But, recently began working on a harman kardan avr 635 home stereo. A lot more room in that. Ive mainly been using burr brown 2604's and 2232's because of their compatibility with circuits without major mods. Also had the crazy idea of seeing how modding old school coustic amp series amps to see how much better they CAN sound. So far its working pretty well. I can post photos tomorrow. Would love to see what these things can do.


----------



## drumcrusher (May 4, 2008)

Also been doing quite a few older processors, eqs and crossovers. Here are a few links to my projects. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...audio-system-twister-amp-mods-w-pictures.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...sovers/153998-zapco-studio-amp-mods-pics.html


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...rossovers/153949-monitor-1-amp-mods-pics.html


----------



## drumcrusher (May 4, 2008)

Haha. Just realized i jumped on late. You guys keep us posted on what yall think. Definately be interested in hearing the outcomes


----------



## GS3 (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm currently running BrownDog SO8 to dip version of OPA827AID in my Tru Copper 7.4, it sounds very good. The OPA827 is designed to have the same or better specs and characteristics as the OPA627 but less expensive.

I've follow your thread of the offer to test out the opamps. I understand you've selected the 5 candidates to received the free samples, but I would like to find out or maybe suggest if you are open to offer some decent discounts to a group-buy run for people who may be interested to swap out their current opamps to test the Burson Audio's SS V5 opamps?

This will provide for a larger sample group and will provide a more consistent and accurate feedback and input. Thanks for your time and considerations


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

GS3 said:


> I'm currently running BrownDog SO8 to dip version of OPA827AID in my Tru Copper 7.4, it sounds very good. The OPA827 is designed to have the same or better specs and characteristics as the OPA627 but less expensive.
> 
> I've follow your thread of the offer to test out the opamps. I understand you've selected the 5 candidates to received the free samples, but I would like to find out or maybe suggest if you are open to offer some decent discounts to a group-buy run for people who may be interested to swap out their current opamps to test the Burson Audio's SS V5 opamps?
> 
> This will provide for a larger sample group and will provide a more consistent and accurate feedback and input. Thanks for your time and considerations


AGREE!!! Am down to buy a few to try, group buy would be a great option for those who weren't lucky enough to get chosen.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

TrickyRicky said:


> AGREE!!! Am down to buy a few to try, group buy would be a great option for those who weren't lucky enough to get chosen.












Hi Guys, 

Below are exclusive, DIYMA member only offers of the SS Audio Opamp.

* The offers below include free postage. (normally, we do require an additional amount to cover postage)

* After receiving the opamps, if you could post a Before and some After photos of your project onto this thread. State the brand and model number of the amp and share some of your honest evaluation with us, then...

* We'll refund 20% of your order by Paypal. 
* The opamps will be covered by 30 days of satisfaction refund guarantee
* Last but not least, the opamps will then be covered by a life-time warranty. 

DIYMA Exclusive Offer - Dual V5 SS OPA matched pair * 1 - Inclusive of postage
DIYMA Exclusive Offer - Dual V5 SS OPA Unit * 1 - Inclusive of postage
DIYMA Exclusive Offer - Single V5 SS OPA matched pair * 1 - Inclusive of postage

Thank you for your keen interest and your support.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Received mine today.








Haven't tested it yet but packaging and opamp itself looks high end










Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

oh wow! Wonder if mine will come today too?


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Brian_smith06 said:


> oh wow! Wonder if mine will come today too?


wifey has to sign for fedex international priority. shipped out on 6th, good luck!


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

hmm. wonder if they'll let complex office sign for this? Wife and I are both gone all day :/

I guess worst case when I get home and there is a note on my door, maybe I can get them to reroute to my work? I once had to do that with a package from jl audio.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't see signature required anywhere on package.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

BursonAudio said:


> Yes our SS Audio Opamp can replace all dual and single version opamps as long as you give it 9V with 7mA of current. Therefore, they are ideal for car audio amplifiers.
> 
> The list above is also not comprehensive and we are adding to it everyday based on customer queries. Therefore, if you have an opamp which is not yet on our list, please let me know and I will check out if ours can replace it.
> 
> Cheers,


My amplifier uses TL071 opamps. These are not on your list. Are they replaceable with your upgraded opamps?


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Those are single channel versions of the TL072, so they should work.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Love having packages waiting for me.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Onyx1136 said:


> My amplifier uses TL071 opamps. These are not on your list. Are they replaceable with your upgraded opamps?


Yes, our Single Version SS Audio opamp can replace the TL071 in any car amplifiers. We have updated our list to include the TL071. : ) Thank you.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Brian_smith06 said:


> Love having packages waiting for me.


Hi Victor, Hi Brian, thanks for the updates! and we look forward to your feedback with anticipation. : ) 

Please please remember that just like any opamps, ours are directional. Plugging them in the wrong orientation will kill the opamps (not your car amp) immediately.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I noticed the key groove immediately but thank you for pointing that out, as of lately i burned way too many things due to not paying attention.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

I received mine too today!!! 

Thank you!


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Here are some pictures with installed Burson Audio opamps:

Burson Photo by soccerguru607 | Photobucket

Burson Photo by soccerguru607 | Photobucket

Picture of original opamps before replacement:

Burson Photo by soccerguru607 | Photobucket

Burson Photo by soccerguru607 | Photobucket

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...p upgrade 001_zpskuutzq2j.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9


----------



## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice! What amp is that?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

teldzc1 said:


> Nice! What amp is that?


MAC mcc404 Full power supply recap same as stock. Just for the heck of it I replaced pretty much all mini caps at amplifier/sound section with Nichicon fine gold muse/fg mini caps. Also few Elna SILMIC II caps in xover board. Probably doesn't make a difference but if it ever get stolen I will know this is my amp LOL


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

soccerguru607 said:


> MAC mcc404 Full power supply recap same as stock. Just for the heck of it I replaced pretty much all mini caps at amplifier/sound section with Nichicon fine gold muse/fg mini caps. Also few Elna SILMIC II caps in xover board. Probably doesn't make a difference but if it ever get stolen I will know this is my amp LOL


I like the way you think! I wish I was good at soldering. Would love to upgrade some of the smaller stuff I didn't get done initially. Matt Borgardt did all of the mods on my amps, including the ic sockets so I can plug and play with these op amps


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Hakko fx-888d is very very good solder station and under $100. Trickyricky introduce them to me couple years back.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Late to the party but would love these in my Bewith A100s in place of opa627

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Party just started.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

So how do these opamps change the sound signature?? 

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Tested in unbalanced to balanced converter overnight.
I use it in my stereo room for signal conversion.
prior to Bursons it has el cheapo 5532 on each side.
At first I can`t hear any difference, given that swap took 5 minutes or so and my auditory memory faged.
after about an hour or so I think I started to like it more. would I pay 130 bucks for a set of them, I probably would for top shelf amplifiers such as Brax,Tru,etc.... 
So here before and after pictures.




















































Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Tested in unbalanced to balanced converter overnight.
> I use it in my stereo room for signal conversion.
> prior to Bursons it has el cheapo 5532 on each side.
> At first I can`t hear any difference, given that swap took 5 minutes or so and my auditory memory faged.
> ...


Thanks, that's a positive feedback but it would make more sense changing these opamps in good amps so as to actually be able to hear the difference 

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

That is exactly what I said. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> That is exactly what I said.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Totally agree sir 

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Getting mine in either Friday or Saturday? looking forward to hear results. I too have 5532's in my amps. If I like what I hear I will probably order a third one for my sub amp. 

Or would I really benefit anything in an amp that will never see above 80hz?


I'd also like to try out the opa627 just for reference/comparing. I feel like between the 3 op amps it would be burson in the lead followed by the opa627 and the 5532 in last. If anybody wants to sell me an opa627 send me a pm.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I haven't noticed but Jimmy pointed it out that sockets he soldered included with Burson opamps.
Silly me.















Nice gold plated sockets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

piyush7243 said:


> Late to the party but would love these in my Bewith A100s in place of opa627
> 
> Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


BB opa627 were known as probably the 'best' few years ago...

SQ is a personal preference, not saying one is better than the other but from several reviews I had read.

Lots people use 'Browndog socket' to convert dual opamp to single opamps just to use opa627.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Brian_smith06 said:


> Getting mine in either Friday or Saturday? looking forward to hear results. I too have 5532's in my amps. If I like what I hear I will probably order a third one for my sub amp.
> 
> Or would I really benefit anything in an amp that will never see above 80hz?
> 
> ...


You will need to buy a 'browndog' conversion from dual opamp to single opamp


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> I haven't noticed but Jimmy pointed it out that sockets he soldered included with Burson opamps.
> Silly me.
> 
> 
> ...


Indeed they are very nice gold sockets.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Home testing with junk Boss 6x9 4way speaker. This speaker have bright and harsh tweeters. The Burson opamps that I installed seem to tame the harshness of the tweeters and sounded a bit warmer. Also runs stable after over an hour testing and listening. Will have to install in my car and tune and listen for a week to see how they sound. Note: This is same setup I had for all year testing my amps with Kenwood XXV 01D HU. Will have exact same setup in car also.

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/soccerguru607/library/?view=recent&page=1


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Played Pearl Jam-Ten, Queens of the stone age - Lullabies to paralyze, City of angels soundtrack and Fergie-the dutchess

Edit: The Queen of the Stone Age songs always extremely bright that piercing my ears with Boss speaker. I know it sounds softer with Burson opamps. I also had this mcc404 tested with this exact setup few months ago before I installed in my car. I believe parameters are extremely important for an honest testing.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Jimmy, check your pb links.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Jimmy, check your pb links.


Just did, I don't know why they do not come up individually. So I just had to copy/paste the whole link.

I don't know how to load full pictures at diyma instead sending links


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

That mac is sick, love it!
Nice power supplies as well. 
I lately use tapatalk to host images, so easy to post directly from your phone/tablet.
Photobucket suck balls lately you click on direct link on the right from the picture, then you click on image link to the right from link icon when posting and paste link to the pic.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

soccerguru607 said:


> You will need to buy a 'browndog' conversion from dual opamp to single opamp


SO8 to DIP Adapter | Cimarron Technology, Inc.

this one correct?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Tested in unbalanced to balanced converter overnight.
> I use it in my stereo room for signal conversion.
> prior to Bursons it has el cheapo 5532 on each side.
> At first I can`t hear any difference, given that swap took 5 minutes or so and my auditory memory faged.
> ...


You know Vic, same here. First few minutes I did not feel any difference but I had to test amp longer to ensure stability of these opamps in there. Then it kinda smooth out, since then I can hear it tame the Boss speaker tweeters. As for clarity and detail I will again have to install in my car with Audison K6 2way comp plus Pioneer stage 4 2.7" mini mids. Your descriptions are better than mine.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Brian_smith06 said:


> SO8 to DIP Adapter | Cimarron Technology, Inc.
> 
> this one correct?


Yes, but make sure the V+ and V- traces goes to the right place


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> That mac is sick, love it!
> Nice power supplies as well.
> I lately use tapatalk to host images, so easy to post directly from your phone/tablet.
> Photobucket suck balls lately you click on direct link on the right from the picture, then you click on image link to the right from link icon when posting and paste link to the pic.


I was surprised to see the amplifier and sound section uses general purpose caps. But MAC does use Wima poly caps on their vertical xover boards.

I have lots to learn about sending picture here at diyma. So I can use classified here instead ebay links.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Just tested over two hours sounds pretty impressive on junk speaker. Going to be raining the next few days, might not be able to install amp into my car soon....


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

soccerguru607 said:


> Hakko fx-888d is very very good solder station and under $100. Trickyricky introduce them to me couple years back.


My old hakko 936 is still going strong without any issues same for my hakko SMD rework station.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

soccerguru607 said:


> Just tested over two hours sounds pretty impressive on junk speaker. Going to be raining the next few days, might not be able to install amp into my car soon....


Hi Guys, 

Thanks for the updates and the wonderful photos. 

Please allow the SS Audio opamps another few days to settle in and their sound will open up further. 

In PC Audio and home audio, our audio opamps are often compared against the OPA627 and the NE5532.

It will be great to receive your comparisons of these opamps in car audio settings.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

100hr burn in....so leave those amps on for two or three days non stop, lol.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

BursonAudio said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Thanks for the updates and the wonderful photos.
> 
> ...


can you set us up with some of the good comparative study, descriptors?

various adjectives that can serve to accurately describe the differences between an optimized, Burson-implemented car amplifier and those that cannot exist in the same surplus of superlatives from the static, conventional IC-based product that is unfortunately distributed as if it were the good stuff, throughout our mobile audio historical canon?

being able to distinguish between a monumental corrective therapy and that of a snake oil salesman's distributed sales sample, since we're adjusting, changing, making invasive substitution, will help those that are resistant to the new course, doing "things" to our beloved audio components...


see, I can say that I've become accustomed to trying out various adjuncts to upgrade my stereo, and yet this is the DNA of the audio parts, it's as if we're taking out the mediocre and putting in Jesse Owens, Usain Bolt quality genetics, and if that's not a useful metaphor I can come up with more...


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

cajunner said:


> can you set us up with some of the good comparative study, descriptors?
> 
> various adjectives that can serve to accurately describe the differences between an optimized, Burson-implemented car amplifier and those that cannot exist in the same surplus of superlatives from the static, conventional IC-based product that is unfortunately distributed as if it were the good stuff, throughout our mobile audio historical canon?
> 
> ...


Say whaat?


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> Say whaat?


looking for the ultraviolence, Victor.

it's the future and Burson is here. The old ways and the old parts are being superseded by the elevation goods, here we have a simple process of substituting the integrated circuit chip, for a discrete solution that now fits, in the space where a former discrete circuit could not, before the influx of surface mount parts and design.


so I am asking, do we need new vocabulary?


the idea of soldering parts into a circuit board is well into tinker type, breadboard stuffs and maybe a perfect fit for a DIY crowd but I have to believe that a service to install these exists that probably could prove lucrative to the TrickyRicky/Shawn?/drumcrusher.... Victor Inox? crowd...


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

New things usually well forgotten oldies. 
Idea of discrete opamp is nothing new, burson implementation is great sounding and awesome looking... does they have better parameters than say 627?
i dunno, I didn`t get to that part of my tinkering with them just yet.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

cajunner said:


> The old ways and the old parts are being superseded by the elevation goods,


Hi, discrete designs predate ICs and we are not creating new elements here. Back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s audio amplifiers were almost entirely discrete (IC free) in design. older and more respectable brands such as Krell, Mark Levinson, First Watt etc still design their flagship amplifiers fully discrete.

Then came the IC based building blocks and it made audio circuitry designing and manufacturing much easier. 

Burson is faithful to the old ways and trying to let people see its many benefits. : )


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

cajunner said:


> can you set us up with some of the good comparative study, descriptors?
> 
> various adjectives that can serve to accurately describe the differences between an optimized, Burson-implemented car amplifier and those that cannot exist in the same surplus of superlatives from the static, conventional IC-based product that is unfortunately distributed as if it were the good stuff, throughout our mobile audio historical canon?
> 
> ...


Here goes Cajunner 'forcing' me to read his post few times to burn my brain cells to understand what exactly his trying say. Like distorted sound wave going through amp's sound path filtering out unwanted waves. I read you post because I respect your writings..


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

pulling my amps tonight to install. Will reinstall amps tomorrow and start my review. Not the best update but an update nonetheless.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

5532 vs the burson


Installed




So easy wife can help


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

thats a weird looking sandwich.. 



sorry, i had to lol


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

She actually laughed at that.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Looking good those are sub amps right?


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Nope. One goes to tweeters and other to mids. Sub amp is a little bigger. They are rated at [email protected] so more than enough headroom


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Brian_smith06 said:


> Nope. One goes to tweeters and other to mids. Sub amp is a little bigger. They are rated at [email protected] so more than enough headroom


They are ID Q700.2?


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeppers


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

What mids and highs are you running that need this much power?


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Need? None. They are both 91 db efficient. Just wanted stupid high headroom so I could have super low gains. My sub is a turd though.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Got the amps in and so far so good. Didn't have much seat time though. Wife basically gave me enough time to put amps in and listen to one song before she wanted to go for a run. I have been jamming to the musical Alexander Hamilton so decided to use one of my favorites from it as my first song to listen to. I could definitely tell that it was a hair more dynamic and slightly less harsh. I will have another session tomorrow over my lunch break to critique more.


----------



## ~Spyne~ (Oct 17, 2008)

I'd be keen for this. Have an Audison LRX5.1k (and 2.9) in the car. Will get pics in the next day or two.
Also conveniently located in VIC and used to run around the comp scene for years with some success.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

BursonAudio said:


> Hi, discrete designs predate ICs and we are not creating new elements here. Back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s audio amplifiers were almost entirely discrete (IC free) in design. older and more respectable brands such as Krell, Mark Levinson, First Watt etc still design their flagship amplifiers fully discrete.
> 
> Then came the IC based building blocks and it made audio circuitry designing and manufacturing much easier.
> 
> Burson is faithful to the old ways and trying to let people see its many benefits. : )


I believe I completely understand this important point, it seems to be the mission statement.

But however, you are now using discrete parts based on surface mount design, and this allows a much smaller board, primarily...


but how does the tolerance issue affect your designs?


can you place the parts using a tolerance checker, so that your new surface mount boards actually outperform the through-hole style, large frame of the first discrete op-amps these new guys are based upon?


Is it just as good, or is it somehow neither here nor there, I believe the tolerances for capacitors in the surface mount sizes are not able to be matched so closely as through hole, this would seemingly cause some variation...

If it is actually more refined, and tolerances are ever tighter due to the placement machine testing of each part, then that would be good to hear and also if the surface mount minimization of the board sizes, also contribute because of less radio interference/noise and higher rejection because there's less metal out there, acting as an antenna in the ultrasonic audio wavelengths...

I'm somewhat intrigued by the proposition of a first gen Burson, vs. the V5, shootout....

can the new design actually reduce oscillation as a vulnerability, while providing a more stable powerful signal to the outputs? Is it faster, too? Does the slew rate move much? How does a non-adjustable op-amp adjust itself to every amplifier's differing volt/ohm/current demands?

How much is true discrete, and how much is discrete-ish?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Amp is installed. Driving Audison voce k6 2way comp. (passive) plus Pioneer stage 4 2.7" mini mids (active with bass blockers) plus Focal Access center channel (full range active). The Focal Access is the weakness of this system, so I might have to disconnect this speaker. When volume is at about 75%+ the Focal shows weakness in distortion. There is no sub or dsp/processor/xover just straight up from speakers to the amp. RF 'denford' 8240 HU with Zapco symbilink preout.
Some pictures:

mcc404 Burson in car 006_zpscg5ebkm5.jpg Photo by soccerguru607 | Photobucket

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...on in car 004_zpsc8p5cxme.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...n in car 003_zpsae8o0qgo.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...on in car 013_zpszpmeixzz.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...on in car 008_zps05szrqbn.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/so...on in car 007_zpsgdosxaaa.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm digging mine so far. I can definitely tell a difference between these and my 5532's. It just has a more "natural" sound now and leaves less of an after taste on the highs if that makes sense?


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeap. More like there is nothing there type thing.


----------



## carlos3621 (Aug 24, 2015)

soccerguru607 said:


> Here are some pictures of mcc404 that I am using personally
> 
> MAC mcc404 recap board 001_zpskmxrzr08.jpg Photo by soccerguru607 | Photobucket
> 
> ...



nice pics!
cant believe 100 watt per channel amp, is using 4 output transistors per channel, from what ive seen before, its usually 2 transistors per channel for a typical rating of around 100 watts per channel.

my sinfoni is rated at 85 watts per channel, and it uses only 2 transistors per channel.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

And these are TO-3P/247 package transistors. About double the size of TO220.

Before this amp I was using Sinfoni amplitude 50.4x for about a year and half and was quite satisfied. I had owned good amount of Sinfoni amps and to me they are top notch SQ amps. I had always prefered Sinfoni over MAC amps in SQ (mids/highs) until I did recap plus gold caps with this MAC. Now with Burson opamp. Will update review in a week or so.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi guys, thank you all for your update and for keeping this discussion alive. We look forward to your impressions with anticipation. 

Meanwhile, if other members are interested in trailing the SS Audio op-amps in their car amplifiers then please consider our exclusive DIYMA offers on page 3. here.

The offer is backed by a 30 day satisfaction refund guarantee. : )


----------



## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

I too look forward to the results of a listening session.

Even though my amplifier is not what some would consider as being audiophile grade equipment I am prone to believe that the Burson Op Amp would be an improvement.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi Guys, Victor, Ism, Brian_Smith, VWDave, Soccerguru, any updates regarding your evaluation of the SS audio opamp?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

I need a little more time for evaluation please...

But one thing for sure, I can hear more detail from most CDs I had played in my car the last week or so.
I need to find more different music that uses different instruments.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

I plan on ordering a third one after Christmas so all 3 of my amps have matching. I can tell a pretty decent difference in sound and it is definitely for the better. I have been super impressed by these


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Brian_smith06 said:


> I plan on ordering a third one after Christmas so all 3 of my amps have matching. I can tell a pretty decent difference in sound and it is definitely for the better. I have been super impressed by these


I see you have talented ears!!! I think for high end amps that are already sound great is tougher to hear a significant difference.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

soccerguru607 said:


> I see you have talented ears!!! I think for high end amps that are already sound great is tougher to hear a significant difference.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Keep laughing Victor....


----------



## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Would these work in a class d amp?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

ImK'ed said:


> Would these work in a class d amp?


Great question! I was thinking about JL HD series 4ch amps since I did not enjoy using them for my mids and highs in the past.


----------



## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Ive also got a jl hd 900/5 but i doubt you could fit them in there because there looks to be no room inside that chassis the 2 circuit boards are sandwiched together and look extremely populated


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The HD had some decent AD opamps in there already, but you won't find room in the case to put these opamps.


----------



## carlos3621 (Aug 24, 2015)

ImK'ed said:


> Would these work in a class d amp?


Class D amps don't need the upgrade, they already sound better than all other amps.

?


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

carlos3621 said:


> Class D amps don't need the upgrade, they already sound better than all other amps.
> 
> ?


that is some bold statement... 
IMHO if you think it worth upgrading it definitely does- for you that is.
I`ve seen people taking perfectly fine components and replacing them with what they thought better components. If value is close enough they will get better (or perceived as better) sound from it. 
Problem with changing opamps is not only that in most cases it`s no longer plug n play as they soldered to the board but also in smd form, practically eliminating possibility to upgrade them to discrete circuit.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> The HD had some decent AD opamps in there already, but you won't find room in the case to put these opamps.


op275?


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't recall the model number. Matt Roberts looked at mine years back when I was thinking about modding them.


----------



## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

thehatedguy said:


> I don't recall the model number. Matt Roberts looked at mine years back when I was thinking about modding them.


Id love a power upgrade, probably cheaper to get a new amp


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Need a little help here:

Anyone familiar with the song "ONE" from Metallica?

Is it normal to hear 'pick' touching 'string' (guitar) while playing? 

I was listening though few songs from their 'greatest hits' which were known as badly recorded album.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

soccerguru607 said:


> Need a little help here:
> 
> Anyone familiar with the song "ONE" from Metallica?
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with that particular recording. But, I've noticed before on other "bad" recordings that there were sometimes certain aspects of the recording that were actually really good. I think sometimes it's not the actual recording that's bad, but it's the mix or mastering that makes it bad. Or it could just be some of the tracks on the record that weren't done well, but a few were recorded really well.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

come on guys.

Burson gave away a pretty sizeable gift and just updating what you're doing with these opamps, helps.

Doesn't matter if you are just swamped for time and haven't installed them yet or that you did install them and have trouble finding words to describe any differences, especially since audio memory is notorious for being notoriously unreliable...

er...

just that I'd like to see the forum represent, as a lot of us (read: me) didn't get the free shot at custom op amps, and kind of feel a little let down so far in the reading department.

Of all the upgrades available to our most loved components, the change from obsolete op amps to a specimen that performs better in all aspects due to the discrete nature and I would imagine, matched, in-tolerance parts, should yield some audible improvement. 

If you are upgrading the capacitor quality in your amps at the same time you are replacing older op amps for these discrete op amps, that is also a significant finding and should help others who intend on doing the same when purchasing these.

together, the better capacitors and the better op amps should move sound quality for the 12V audience, forward to the point that an audible difference is noted?

I would also like to petition those who have amps that allow separate op amps for each channel, to upgrade half of the amp and leave the other untouched for some AB tests. 

That would probably be about as close as it gets to sonic signatures 'showing up' and all that...

Anyways, sorry if I seem impatient or stepping on toes for making this post, and having the feeling that more could be put out here regarding your intentions, and use of the free sample sets. I do not mean to impart any negativity with my thoughts but perhaps, prod some of you to at least give a current status report even if they are still in the box they arrived in, as it were...


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

cajunner said:


> come on guys.
> 
> Burson gave away a pretty sizeable gift and just updating what you're doing with these opamps, helps.
> 
> ...


Thank you that sharp stone in my shoe 

Great idea one side upgrade the other side stock, but I think better do testing at home would be easier. 

Don't replace caps and opamps at the same time. 

I already had my recapped and being using in my ride before Burson Audio opamp upgrade.


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

soccerguru607 said:


> Need a little help here:
> 
> Anyone familiar with the song "ONE" from Metallica?
> 
> ...




I have heard very good recording's of this song on home systems and in cars.. Pick noises were apparent in the nicer set ups and I know I had not heard that in the previous years of listening to Metallica. Id say that is definitely a good thing.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

soccerguru607 said:


> Thank you that sharp stone in my shoe
> 
> Great idea one side upgrade the other side stock, but I think better do testing at home would be easier.
> 
> ...


you've been forthcoming, you know that so...

but the estimation that this replacement modification is within the average DIYMA membership's bag of donuts, may be aiming slightly above the skew. I'd expect someone wanting to have the goodness of discrete op amp substitution but also willing to pay a tech to do the labor of soldering, would likely allot a few bucks towards a cap switchout at the same time the amp is out, along with the kapton film or thermal paste repack.

seeing as it's probably going to be larger through-hole amps with the kind of vertical room needed for these drop-ins, the likely suspects are going to up for some prophylaxis anyways.

I would go ahead and ask Burson if a capacitor replacement in the amp, will throw off the op amps until they are formed and stabilized?

I seem to remember that amps that are driven near oscillation could be unsettled by a cap replacement and if you are feeding stronger signal from the discrete op amps by Burson, maybe that could tilt the cart of apples?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

deeppinkdiver said:


> I have heard very good recording's of this song on home systems and in cars.. Pick noises were apparent in the nicer set ups and I know I had not heard that in the previous years of listening to Metallica. Id say that is definitely a good thing.


Hey Bro! Long time and thank you sir!!!


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

cajunner said:


> you've been forthcoming, you know that so...
> 
> but the estimation that this replacement modification is within the average DIYMA membership's bag of donuts, may be aiming slightly above the skew. I'd expect someone wanting to have the goodness of discrete op amp substitution but also willing to pay a tech to do the labor of soldering, would likely allot a few bucks towards a cap switchout at the same time the amp is out, along with the kapton film or thermal paste repack.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you! 

I understand these opamps are expensive compare all the other I have seen. One reason Burson Audio sent them out to get reviewed. One have to be 100% sure they will sound better or will be a waste of money. Good amount of money.

Obviously efficiency is important, do upgrade one time and pay that one price. But I was talking about only replacing Burson opamps doing the hearing/sound test for reviews. And yes these Burson opamps will not fit some of the amps out there - either too tall or opamps location too close that will have to jump connections.

Lets tilt the cart of oranges...


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

soccerguru607 said:


> I see you have talented ears!!! I think for high end amps that are already sound great is tougher to hear a significant difference.


Thanks for heated discussions. 

* The better the audio equipment, the more difference you will be able to notice when swapping components. That's also true with opamps. 

* Unfortunately our SS audio op-amp is a lot bigger than IC counterparts so, it may not fit in some amplifiers. However, we do have extension kits which changes the angle, if need be. : ) 

* You can certainly use the SSOPA in class D amps. Our opamp only needs 9V with 7mA to work.


----------



## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So these opamps didn't fit in the Phoenix gold MQ-430. 2 of them were too close together so they would interfere. The good news is that my ms275 also had upgraded opamps with sockets and I have another of the same model to do an A-B with. I plan to do this in the next day or two.


















I am going to try and be objective when listening. I dont have any skin in the game as there is nothing for me to gain whether I hear an improvement or not. I can see both sides of the argument but I'll let my ears do the deciding.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi vwdave, thanks for this update and your wonderful photos. If you want to try it in the Phoenix in the future, then we can provide some extension legs for you. : )


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

BursonAudio said:


> Hi vwdave, thanks for this update and your wonderful photos. If you want to try it in the Phoenix in the future, then we can provide some extension legs for you. : )


I think if Dave removes the sockets it may fit, it will give you an extra 3-4mm. 


Do you agree Dave? Or was it taller than 4mm? Heck why not just cut those two small squares out of the plexi so they can fit....jk...you can still test them without the bottom cover.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi guys, Any listening impressions? Comparisons?


----------



## virtue (Jan 12, 2011)

It's sad how individuals talk negative things when they themselves have never used or heard this product. I first mentioned about the Burson Op-amps on the Phoenix Gold Phorum and I got foolish, negative comments by individuals who have never heard or even seen these op-amps before. So, how can anyone comment if they have never heard these before? I see this is the same for this site...

Anyhow, yes this product works and it works well. As for my vwdave friend, try and make it fit. But, for anyone who is using a line driver, they have Op-amps in them too... EQ's have Op-amps in them too... Crossovers have Op-amps in them too... And the head unit have Op-amps in them too... So, for anyone to get the ultimate SQ car stereo system, they need to eliminate as much sound interference as possible. Since the MS and M series Phoenix Gold amps have a line driver built into them, don't add another line driver before the amp. Unless you are using a crappy head unit with poor output voltage. In this case, don't bother with this product... It all makes sense, right?

Remember, this works incredible in home audio too. If you don't notice a difference in the car, use it in the home! 

For the ultimate SQ car audio system, an individual would just have the SQ head unit, top notch cables, good front speakers, a really good amp (with Burson Op-amps) and only a passive crossover set up for the front speakers. You won't hear a difference with subs... So, do whatever you want with the subs and sub amps. But if your door speakers are behind the stock plastic door grills. Forget anything on this topic. It blocks the sound. Even the grills on the tweeters.

As for head units, try and buy an older head unit with as little processing in it as possible. The newer head units have EQ's, crossovers and you name it, inside of it. This all changes the sound. My newer Clarion HX-D3 head unit has (9) BB Op-amps on the main board and a few others on a side board for the output cables! LOL! Remember, keep it simple. 

As for digital amps, it is tough to say how these Op-amps would perform. There are different styles of digital amplifiers. Essentially, most digital amps pulse the signal or components on/off for efficiency. This pulsing changes the recorded sound ( as do DACs ) and where the pulse notches occur some of the recorded sound gets lost. ( Also, the pulsing does not give a perfect square wave form so it even adds it's own sound ). Here's an example, a tremble is played in the music, and as the tremble drifts off it get quieter and quieter and rolls off into the background. With digital, some of this 'drifting off' gets lost. So, the sound is not as natural. Believe me, your hearing can pick this sound up. So, Class A, Class A/B amps are what you want really for a front stage. I know there are pulsing digital power supplies with an A/B output stage. These will work like regular A/B amps.

Hope this helps... I have heard and used these Burson Op-amps. They do what they say they do.

Oh and the capacitors in the passive crossovers also play a HUGE role in sound...


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

In 7 pages so far I haven't seen one negative comment, WTF you talking about?


----------



## virtue (Jan 12, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> In 7 pages so far I haven't seen one negative comment, WTF you talking about?


Hahahahaha!, thanks buddy! I needed a laugh!

Have you heard these things yet?


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

I am still waiting for reviews from others like Victor....

All I know the MCC404 I am using is the best sounding amp I ever used with the upgrades I had done. The only thing amp does not sound as warm as stock but more clean and with greater headroom or more open.

I am looking for a MCC406 to do the same upgrade but this time going with Elna caps to try to keep amp sound warmer.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

virtue said:


> Hahahahaha!, thanks buddy! I needed a laugh!
> 
> Have you heard these things yet?


I believe I posted first mini review
In here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi Guys, thanks for keeping the discussion alive. : ) Merry Xmas and a happy NY to all on DIYMA.


----------



## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

Victor_inox said:


> In 7 pages so far I haven't seen one negative comment, WTF you talking about?


Not here. The "experts" on the Phoenix phorum jumped all over him. Some of those idiots don't come over here cause you guys would tear them apart.


----------



## BursonAudio (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi Guys, its been a while! We have just introduced a smaller version audio opamp. 

This one carries the same sonic characteristic of the bigger V5 and it sounds almost as good. More importantly, due to its size and robust construction, it is more suitable for car audio applications. : ) Please check it out. 

Burson Audio – Supreme Sound Opamp V5i

If you decide to try it then we offer free postage. Simply type in DIYMA at the Paypal check out and ignore the part that selects postage methods. 


Cheers,

Burson


----------



## leorbolato (Apr 26, 2009)

I just bought one V5 from the offer to replace the OPA2604 from my Ground Zero Reference 2.
Will post my impressions as soon as i get the project done. 

https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=spanish


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Subd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

leorbolato said:


> I just bought one V5 from the offer to replace the OPA2604 from my Ground Zero Reference 2.
> 
> Will post my impressions as soon as i get the project done.
> 
> ...




Please post your findings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Those BB 2604 are already considered "audiophile" grade...


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I'm going to ask the stupid question: Would the JBL MS-8 benefit from an op-amp upgrade?


----------



## mediumroast (Apr 18, 2011)

Sweet! Just saw this thread. My first try with these opamps is to a TRU b4100s v2
https://www.bursonaudio.com/tru-technology-b4100-upgrade-with-ss-audio-discrete-v5-op-amps/

Also tried it on a Phoenix Gold MS275 which sounded fantastic (cover won't close unless you add the socket extender.) The TRU was more revealing and it made a bigger difference there.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> I'm going to ask the stupid question: Would the JBL MS-8 benefit from an op-amp upgrade?


Is not a stupid question...

All dsp use some type of opamps, but the standard V5 I think would be too tall to fit. They do make a smaller V5 version though


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

mediumroast said:


> Sweet! Just saw this thread. My first try with these opamps is to a TRU b4100s v2
> https://www.bursonaudio.com/tru-technology-b4100-upgrade-with-ss-audio-discrete-v5-op-amps/
> 
> Also tried it on a Phoenix Gold MS275 which sounded fantastic (cover won't close unless you add the socket extender.) The TRU was more revealing and it made a bigger difference there.


The BB opa627 (single channel that need two to replace in place of dual channels) are I 'think' the best and most expensive Burr Brown opamps. They say it makes a 'better' difference?

I have a pair of V5 opamps with Nichicon gold FG caps (both amp and audio section) in my Mcintosh mcc404 and been in my setup for over a year. 

I say with only gold caps upgrade it had better clarity and detail than factory but killed the warm sound. I think Elna silmic II would have been a better choice for keep it sound warm. 
With Burson V5 opamps replacement on top this amp sound wider or more open or bigger like in a concert.

These are just my own opinions. SQ is a personally preference and we all have unique hearing abilities.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

soccerguru607 said:


> Is not a stupid question...
> 
> All dsp use some type of opamps, but the standard V5 I think would be too tall to fit. They do make a smaller V5 version though


Maybe one day when I'm feeling spendy, I'll break into one of my MS-8's and take a chance.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

MS-8 = SurfaceMoundDevices....


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TrickyRicky said:


> MS-8 = SurfaceMoundDevices....


ahhh...welp, forget that.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

How about try with a good amp first, like a personal amp that you know how it sounds...
If most/all amps sounds the same to you like between Brax and JL HD then I 'think' will be a waste of money no matter where you want to install them

I don't think there are doggie links go from dip to smd...Plenty dual smd to dip


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Bit scared to open up my Brax MX amps as they are new but maybe I'll try it on the Audison Thesis Due - does anyone know what Audison uses and how many there are in there? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mediumroast (Apr 18, 2011)

soccerguru607 said:


> I don't think there are doggie links go from dip to smd...Plenty dual smd to dip



When ordering your Burson opamps, you can add the DIP8 to SOIC adapter as an accessory ($15 for 2 adapters) Supreme Sound Opamp V5 – Burson Audio

That reminds me I still have it and was going to try the bursons on a Rane RPM88 DSP.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

I am planning to add these in DSP pro, but not sure whether in helix DSP pro, the opamps are SMD or not. Anyone tried it so far.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

piyush7243 said:


> I am planning to add these in DSP pro, but not sure whether in helix DSP pro, the opamps are SMD or not. Anyone tried it so far.


Am 99% sure it's SMD.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

TrickyRicky said:


> Am 99% sure it's SMD.


Thanks for confirmation.Can I switch to adapters by removing them?. I somehow never get any circuit diagram.looks like I have to open my DSP pro

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> Am 99% sure it's SMD.


i`m 100% sure there is.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

piyush7243 said:


> Thanks for confirmation.Can I switch to adapters by removing them?. I somehow never get any circuit diagram.looks like I have to open my DSP pro
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I wouldn't touch it.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> I wouldn't touch it.


Done deal. So now I'm left with amps. Sinfoni n biketronics

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

op amp upgrades in the digital domain are a bunch of bs


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Lycancatt said:


> op amp upgrades in the digital domain are a bunch of bs


Sigh. So only Sinfoni remain or should I buy a ps8 for the heck of it and I can also bypass the cap on my biketronics that should improve it

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

the symphony amp is highly reguarded, I'd love to do an a/b blind test of the op amp upgrade vs non upgraded..i'm well qualified for blind testing.. lmao.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Lycancatt said:


> the symphony amp is highly reguarded, I'd love to do an a/b blind test of the op amp upgrade vs non upgraded..i'm well qualified for blind testing.. lmao.


I am going to try it with Shadow edition. Will make 2 videos one with and one without if it can be distinguished on a video

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

piyush7243 said:


> I am planning to add these in DSP pro, but not sure whether in helix DSP pro, the opamps are SMD or not. Anyone tried it so far.


I had my op amps changed in my Helix DSP Pro, but they were done by The Amp Doctor so I have no idea how easy or difficult it was.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> I had my op amps changed in my Helix DSP Pro, but they were done by The Amp Doctor so I have no idea how easy or difficult it was.


What were original opsmps and what did you change to.

Any benefits seen?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

piyush7243 said:


> Done deal. So now I'm left with amps. Sinfoni n biketronics
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


 Biketronics use hypex amplifiers modules, they use smd op amps and can be replaced if desired but why? Also hypex hiding parts under black epoxy, that makes replacement too difficult.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Biketronics use hypex amplifiers modules, they use smd op amps and can be replaced if desired but why? Also hypex hiding parts under black epoxy, that makes replacement too difficult.


That's why dropped the idea

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

piyush7243 said:


> What were original opsmps and what did you change to.
> 
> Any benefits seen?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



My Sinfoni amps all have LME op amps in them, I think those are Texas Instruments.

No idea what they were before. I'm guessing the DSP Pro has the same?
I would have to ask Gordon to be certain.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> My Sinfoni amps all have LME op amps in them, I think those are Texas Instruments.
> 
> No idea what they were before. I'm guessing the DSP Pro has the same?
> I would have to ask Gordon to be certain.


Thanks. That would be great

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## leorbolato (Apr 26, 2009)

I received the Bursons today, i will listen to it for a couple of days and post my impressions.

 

 
share image


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

leorbolato said:


> I received the Bursons today, i will listen to it for a couple of days and post my impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Finally was able to perform a proper test with those V5 bursons.
I was surprised that I actually liked them more that I thought I would.
replaced bb2604 that is already considered audiophile grade and I like depth of the stage very much. First test was done in comparison with 5532
Once again discrete schematics beat the crap out of IC.
Would love to buy some more if someone here doesn`t like theirs. shoot me PM with offer.


----------



## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

leorbolato said:


> I received the Bursons today, i will listen to it for a couple of days and post my impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking forward to reading your impression.


----------

