# Is this true? Regarding wire gauges



## mastabassa (Dec 30, 2014)

I heard a shop owner saying you should use the same gauge on component installs for amp-crossover as crossover-speaker, I’ve always run 14 gauge from the amp to crossover and then 16 gauge for the crossover to speaker connection since it’s shorter, is this bad? This seems way too picky to me


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I don't see how it could hurt anything, but again, don't see the point in changing wire size in the same run. That's just my perspective.


----------



## mastabassa (Dec 30, 2014)

I only do it because the amp to crossover is a longer run, and 14 awg doesn’t fit my speaker terminal


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

mastabassa said:


> *I heard a shop owner saying you should use the same gauge on component installs for amp-crossover as crossover-speaker*, I’ve always run 14 gauge from the amp to crossover and then 16 gauge for the crossover to speaker connection since it’s shorter, is this bad? This seems way too picky to me


Oh, my... While I am certainly no expert, I can fairly confidently state that this is utter hogwash (IMHO, lol).


----------



## ThorzHammer (Sep 17, 2017)

mastabassa said:


> I heard a shop owner saying you should use the same gauge on component installs for amp-crossover as crossover-speaker


The extent of how anal a person can be is astounding.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

mastabassa said:


> I only do it because the amp to crossover is a longer run, and 14 awg doesn’t fit my speaker terminal


I use 18 & 16 awg Monoprice Access wire which is jacketed a second time. Makes 4 conductor runs easier and is plenty in size for modest setups.


----------



## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

I run 18 gauge to everything powered by AC

1/0 in for power though


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

For most components; 16awg is more than sufficient.

Don't worry about what the installer says... 14awg to the crossover, and then 16awg to the speakers will be fine.


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Really, why use 14 vs say 18? The size should be chosen based on length and power being used. Longer runs with more power need larger gauge wire and shorter runs with less power need less. So based on the limited information, I have no idea what you should do. If your crossover is close to your amp in the back, you might be able to actually use a smaller wire and you actually need larger wire to get to your speakers because they’re way up in the front. But in general I would think 16 gauge or even 18 gauge would be just fine for most installs.

WIRE


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ThorzHammer said:


> The extent of how anal a person can be is astounding.


When i run subwoofer wire from amp to woofer, it has to be in one piece. I hate using any type of binding post. But when i happen to use a binding post the 2 runs of speaker wire must be cut from the same piece, and continue to go in the same direction they came off the roll. No logical reason for either, but thats just me.


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

miniSQ said:


> When i run subwoofer wire from amp to woofer, it has to be in one piece. I hate using any type of binding post. But when i happen to use a binding post the 2 runs of speaker wire must be cut from the same piece, and continue to go in the same direction they came off the roll. No logical reason for either, but thats just me.


Bravo! The first step toward recovery is admitting you have a problem.


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

miniSQ said:


> When i run subwoofer wire from amp to woofer, it has to be in one piece. I hate using any type of binding post. But when i happen to use a binding post the 2 runs of speaker wire must be cut from the same piece, and continue to go in the same direction they came off the roll. No logical reason for either, but thats just me.


That is way too close to being considered audiophile mumbo jumbo that is out of control. That’s how they end up paying $1000 for cryogenic speaker cable with the same electrical characteristics of lamp cord. Or don’t get me started on cable risers for 2-channel home listeners. Ughh.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

dgage said:


> That is way too close to being considered audiophile mumbo jumbo that is out of control. That’s how they end up paying $1000 for cryogenic speaker cable with the same electrical characteristics of lamp cord. Or don’t get me started on cable risers for 2-channel home listeners. Ughh.


luckily i am too cheap for any of that and i don't have a desire to spend more than a few bucks on speaker wire, but i think i used to put green magic marker on my CD's in the 90's, but it was the 90's so i forget.


----------



## TXBoudy (Aug 12, 2018)

mastabassa said:


> I heard a shop owner saying you should use the same gauge on component installs for amp-crossover as crossover-speaker, I’ve always run 14 gauge from the amp to crossover and then 16 gauge for the crossover to speaker connection since it’s shorter, is this bad? This seems way too picky to me


I can't even pretend to know the perspective that the shop owner was coming from so without knowing his details, it's hard to say he hasn't run into a situation where that wasn't completely false. The bottom line is that the relevance of your wire gauge is specific to it's ability to carry adequately the amperage over the specified distance without noticeable loss at max volume. With that said, these distances are short enough that loss is barely measurable, if at all. Current loss formulas are plentiful on the net but you'll find it's irrelevant to bother with once you run a few calculations. 

14 all the way, meh just fine.
16 all the way, meh just fine.
14 in/16 out, meh just fine.
18 all the way, meh just maybe for OEM. lol...


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

dgage said:


> Really, why use 14 vs say 18?
> ...
> WIRE


Damping factor.
The rests is all magic and even the damping factor is getting towards magic.

I am using Magami wire which is 13 or 14 ga. and probably overkill... but damping factor would be the only non BS explanation of why.


----------



## mastabassa (Dec 30, 2014)

So I ran 14 all around like he suggested but I couldn’t fit the 14 awg into my speaker terminals so I cut a bit of strands off around the edges to make it fit so I could solder it, does this defeat the purpose of higher gauge wire? Lol


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

mastabassa said:


> So I ran 14 all around like he suggested but I couldn’t fit the 14 awg into my speaker terminals so I cut a bit of strands off around the edges to make it fit so I could solder it, does this defeat the purpose of higher gauge wire? Lol


no, the reason you use larger gauge is because over a certain length you want the resistance to remain low for how much current you are passing across it.

example, you can run ALOT more current through a 1" section of 14 ga wire than you can a 50ft section.


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Holmz said:


> Damping factor.
> The rests is all magic and even the damping factor is getting towards magic.
> 
> I am using Magami wire which is 13 or 14 ga. and probably overkill... but damping factor would be the only non BS explanation of why.


Right but really that boils down to wire resistance, which means length. And really, damping factor isn’t usually an issue for today’s amplifiers, especially for regular speakers. Subs are where damping factor makes the most difference and where wire size can be increased. I just did some testing of the JL 12TW3 and the SI BM mkV and was happy both handled 10 gauge wire ferrules.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

dgage said:


> Right but really that boils down to wire resistance, which means length. And really, damping factor isn’t usually an issue for today’s amplifiers, especially for regular speakers. Subs are where damping factor makes the most difference and where wire size can be increased. I just did some testing of the JL 12TW3 and the SI BM mkV and was happy both handled 10 gauge wire ferrules.


Correct.

I just used the Magami 13ga wire because I liked the look of it.
And they seem totally beyond overkill when going to a tweeter.

But having the amps nearer the speakers is theoretically better, and bigger wires are also better in theory...
However the realities of car realestate require some practicality in come into play, as do wires that are flexible enough to not strain the speaker connectors into breaking off.


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

So you’re into overkill? Here, here! All of my XLR cables for my microphone and preamp are Mogami Gold and I’ve used their stuff for DIY RCAs. Good stuff. And I usually go much larger than necessary and do like the OP to strip a little wire if needed to get it to fit.


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

dgage said:


> So you’re into overkill? Here, here! All of my XLR cables for my microphone and preamp are Mogami Gold and I’ve used their stuff for DIY RCAs. Good stuff. And I usually go much larger than necessary and do like the OP to strip a little wire if needed to get it to fit.


So, it's "do as I say, not as I do," huh? 



dgage said:


> *Really, why use 14 vs say 18? * The size should be chosen based on length and power being used. Longer runs with more power need larger gauge wire and shorter runs with less power need less. So based on the limited information, I have no idea what you should do. If your crossover is close to your amp in the back, you might be able to actually use a smaller wire and you actually need larger wire to get to your speakers because they’re way up in the front. *But in general I would think 16 gauge or even 18 gauge would be just fine for most installs.*


I'm with you and Holmz in the overkill department.


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Grinder said:


> So, it's "do as I say, not as I do," huh?


Let’s just say that I’m following your signature and making sure the wire won’t be a bottleneck.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

dgage said:


> So you’re into overkill? Here, here! All of my XLR cables for my microphone and preamp are Mogami Gold and I’ve used their stuff for DIY RCAs. Good stuff. And I usually go much larger than necessary and do like the OP to strip a little wire if needed to get it to fit.


Well the Magami with the Neutrik ends work a charm.

Then if there is an actual box and Neutrik connecting the box to the cable.. then one can skinny the wires down for the last run to speaker tabs.

If there is some header bar that holds the Neutrik for something like an IB for mid-bass, then one can go small from there.

Mid-range also sometimes get mounted in more of an IB arrangement...

Tweeters almost never have a box, and their tabs are also sometimes delicate, so there has to be flexible wires or some method of strain relief if a large Magami 4-core is servicing a left hand side mid-range and tweeter.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I think one thing to keep in mind as well. If 14 or 16 gauge is overkill. Overkill never hurt anything. Not big enough can cause anything from poor performance to fire

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

dgage said:


> Let’s just say that I’m following your signature and making sure the wire won’t be a bottleneck.





minbari said:


> I think one thing to keep in mind as well. If 14 or 16 gauge is overkill. Overkill never hurt anything. Not big enough can cause anything from poor performance to fire


_Hear! Hear!_



TBH, for home stuff the only time I use 16 gauge or smaller is in very short lengths and/or on particularly delicate terminals; otherwise, 12 gauge is my go-to ...and sometimes 10 gauge.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

So, I have a new build coming up and don't really want to fight the door boots for midbass in doors. I'll have 190rms on tap from a bridged rd900/5 but know I probably won't even use half that real world because my bridged st-4x sq (roughly 190ish x2) was pulled WAY back in the processor on the gs690's in the Jeep. And the new build will be a single cab truck so less space to fill. Going off real world experience with signal being pulled back over 10db in the processor and music being dynamic bcae1 says I should be good up to 125rms or so with the factory 18g wire which will have 16g tapping into it behind the headunit. I only have way more power than needed so I can keep distortion to a minimum. Any reason why the factory 18g won't be sufficient knowing the gs690's can be overdriven with far less than what I have available and gain structure set accordingly to pull power back?


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> So, I have a new build coming up and don't really want to fight the door boots for midbass in doors. I'll have 190rms on tap from a bridged rd900/5 but know I probably won't even use half that real world because my bridged st-4x sq (roughly 190ish x2) was pulled WAY back in the processor on the gs690's in the Jeep. And the new build will be a single cab truck so less space to fill. Going off real world experience with signal being pulled back over 10db in the processor and music being dynamic bcae1 says I should be good up to 125rms or so with the factory 18g wire which will have 16g tapping into it behind the headunit. I only have way more power than needed so I can keep distortion to a minimum. Any reason why the factory 18g won't be sufficient knowing the gs690's can be overdriven with far less than what I have available and gain structure set accordingly to pull power back?


If one is never clipping then the available power is clearly more than enough, and some clipping is generally seen as OK. 

If the processing is pulling back the power by 10dB, then it suggests that the 190w may also becoming effectively scaled back to 19W, which seems about right. That makes me wonder if it sounds any different bridging?

I think that the only easy way to say for sure, is if you have an actual RMS or peak power number to work out whether wire size was truely good.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I'll try it both ways with the JL amp bridged and unbridged. I do know that the 80-100rms per channel (depending on where you get your info) on the unbridged Zapco 5ch wasn't as dynamic as the 190ish per speaker the bridged 4ch gave. Could be dynamic peaks, lower distortion at any given volume, or I'm just a victim of phychoacoustics. Either way more power equaled more dynamics.


----------



## Davesworld (Oct 3, 2018)

The thing that gets me is that people use obscenely thick speaker wire and then in the crossover, the components, are nowhere near the gauge. To build a passive crossover that matches the oversized speaker cable would get bulky in a hurry and be more expensive than a good midrange and tweeter combined. Se we feed 10 gauge wire to an 18 gauge or higher low pass inductor, brilliant! The good news is that it will not harm anything other than added weight and bulk.

I'm a fan of electronic crossovers and bi or tri amping. The subs are what really matter where gauge is concerned. Most people already know that the low frequencies use the majority of the power in any system.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Davesworld said:


> The thing that gets me is that people use obscenely thick speaker wire and then in the crossover, the components, are nowhere near the gauge. To build a passive crossover that matches the oversized speaker cable would get bulky in a hurry and be more expensive than a good midrange and tweeter combined. Se we feed 10 gauge wire to an 18 gauge or higher low pass inductor, brilliant! The good news is that it will not harm anything other than added weight and bulk.
> 
> I'm a fan of electronic crossovers and bi or tri amping. The subs are what really matter where gauge is concerned. Most people already know that the low frequencies use the majority of the power in any system.


You can pass A LOT more current through a short piece of wire than you can a long piece of the same gauge. Just look at your fuses that you pass 100+ amps through in theory. What cracks me up are people who gripe about not being able connect 12g wire to their tweeters or small midranges. If you MUST run gigantic wire you won't hurt anything by splicing in a 16 or 18g jumper to connect to the speaker itself as long as your connections are solid. I even use 16g to sub(s) because the run is so short and never run more than 500-600rms to the sub. Have for years and the only wire I've had a problem with was cheap Walmart cca back in my basshead days.


----------



## -zaxx- (Oct 9, 2019)

Total BS that they need to be the same gauge. Higher gauge is to achieve lower resistance. There are only two factors when it comes to wire gauge: distance and power. I would be more concerned with the quality of the wire. Always use oxygen free stranded copper wire with a thick enough shield that it will not get damaged.


----------



## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

dgage said:


> That is way too close to being considered audiophile mumbo jumbo that is out of control. That’s how they end up paying $1000 for cryogenic speaker cable with the same electrical characteristics of lamp cord. Or don’t get me started on cable risers for 2-channel home listeners. Ughh.


Actually it’s in electrical theory basics, less connections gives less chance for bad connections and resistance in a circuit, even more important in a moving car with vibration etc, so it’s far from Mumbo jumbo

Not even in the same class as cable risers and other snake oil


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

dumdum said:


> Actually it’s in electrical theory basics, less connections gives less chance for bad connections and resistance in a circuit, even more important in a moving car with vibration etc, so it’s far from Mumbo jumbo
> 
> Not even in the same class as cable risers and other snake oil


Clearly, the point of his post was to address the highlighted bit below:



miniSQ said:


> When i run subwoofer wire from amp to woofer, it has to be in one piece. I hate using any type of binding post. *But when i happen to use a binding post the 2 runs of speaker wire must be cut from the same piece, and continue to go in the same direction they came off the roll.* No logical reason for either, but thats just me.


----------

