# What DIY components are you using?



## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Hi everyone!

With all these DIY components floating around, I'm curious how people are matching them up and how they sound! When you guys post your setup, could you also give an approximate price range of the drivers so I know which one is in my budget?

Several of my friends have recommended the LPG 25nfa and the seas CA18RNX to me. (I'll be putting only 7.5watts RMS @ 8ohms to the tweeters, would that be enough?). I think that's the route I'm going, but this is my first DIY purchase and I want to see what else is out there.

Thanks
David


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## aaron (Apr 8, 2005)

Did you get those in yet? I'm looking forward to your review.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Not yet. Worry not, Npdang's got my order out and I should have my components soon! I will post a review as soon as I can! 

David

P.S. I'm really interested! Also insterested about what everyone is using for their components.... Let's hear it!


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

Phaze audio 6.5's / Aura MR tweets. p9 and all LP power, i'm really liking it right now.


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

I have Peerless CSX 850518 6.5" mids and Phass NT 28TC 28mm tweeters (Thanks npdang!) off a Phaze Audio Tube Driver TD475. The mids and highs are awaiting to be installed though.

Ryan


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

7" Vifa PL18's and LPG 25nfa's. the LPG's are great. cant say much for the Vifa's though.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

kappa546: Man I heard those tweeters were pretty sweet. Did you pick them up from ECA for dirt cheap prices? How did you end up mounting them? (the ones on ECA were glued to a ring I believe)

|Tch0rT| : Phass NT 28TC 28mm.. Wow, I was going to pick these up from npdang but you beat me to them! Hehe I ended up picking the 25NFA. How are the phass NT? 

minitruck_freq : How much power are you givng the 25NFA... I'm thinking of feeding them 7.5 watts @ 8 ohms. I hope they can balance with the CA18RNX that's getting 40watts RMS @8ohms. 


David


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> kappa546: Man I heard those tweeters were pretty sweet. Did you pick them up from ECA for dirt cheap prices? How did you end up mounting them? (the ones on ECA were glued to a ring I believe)
> 
> |Tch0rT| : Phass NT 28TC 28mm.. Wow, I was going to pick these up from npdang but you beat me to them! Hehe I ended up picking the 25NFA. How are the phass NT?
> 
> ...



they are getting about 50 watts.


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

minitruck_freq said:


> 7" Vifa PL18's and LPG 25nfa's. the LPG's are great. cant say much for the Vifa's though.


haha..i must agree with you..
___

I have/uninstalled:

LCY 130 Ribbon tweeters
Seas Lotus Reference 4.5" mids
Seas H1224 7" woofers


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

yea i've got the rings too and thats how i'm using them.


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> |Tch0rT| : Phass NT 28TC 28mm.. Wow, I was going to pick these up from npdang but you beat me to them! Hehe I ended up picking the 25NFA. How are the phass NT?
> 
> 
> David


I haven't installed them yet. I hooked them up for a few minutes to make sure they worked. Even though npdang said they were smooth they still sounded a little bright (not that it's a bad thing) but that's compared to my Oz Audio OZ-25 silk dome tweeters I had (before a local shop blew them when I had them installed). I'm afraid they'll be more detailed than the Peerless mids I have and they won't match right. heh I'll find out soon enough.

Ryan


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

|Tch0rT| - Good luck with those. Hey if they don't match, that's not necessary a bad thing either  It's an excuse to buy more details mids!

Let us know how it sounds when you get them hooked up! By the way, how are you mounting them? Another thing stoping me from picking them up was that I don't think those screw holes would look good if it was mounted on the door panel.

David


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Aura NS2 "Whisper" widebanders on top with Peerless SLS8's underneath. No subwoofers, but with the hardtop on the two little 8's do a frightfully clean job (the doorpanels are the limiter, not the woofers) on 16Hz organ pedals. (With the soft-top on or the top down, I keep the volume fairly low so as not to annoy those in other cars around me.) IMO, Peerless's woofer motors are the best overhung designs out there today. 

I've been playing with crossover corner frequencies and slopes recently, but I keep coming back to my starting point: 4th order electrical (acoustical slopes pretty close, too) at around 400Hz for both drivers.


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

hey DS, what organ songs are you listening to that drop that low? I've been looking for some organ music that gets really low lately.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Update! 

I got my CA18RNX and 25NFAs today! NPDang got them to me in excellent packaging! 

It was late at night when I had them in my hands. I didn't want to use my power tools (too much) so I did a really rough baffle. It turns out that with a 1" baffle, the mids perfectly my 94 accord coupe! It turned out a big surprise because Npdang looked at my car, he and I both agreed that it couldn't be done. I guess the saying always holds true "you never know until you try!"

The bad news is that i already made holes for my orion HCCA 5s tweeters. Removing the tweeters gave a hole slightly larger than I need for the 25nFA. I'm going to give hot glue a try tomorrow. I'll make nice Baffle and take picks to show you guys how tight of a fit I got it in!

Also upgrade my Clarion 7.5watts x 2 for a Coustic 25x2 (8ohms) for my tweeters. This is going to sound sweet! (I hope!)

David


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## aaron (Apr 8, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx

I'm looking forward to your review.


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> Update!
> 
> I got my CA18RNX and 25NFAs today! NPDang got them to me in excellent packaging!
> 
> ...



get that stuff installed dude. im anxious to here how u like the ca18's.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Got most of the stuff installed today. Didn't have time to wire up the Amp yet, I'm give the LPGs just 7.5 watts right now. They actually sound really nice too.

I didn't even have time to EQ it. It's left as stock for now. I spent the entire day putting these mids in. They are trickly since I had exactly just enough space to work with.

I'll install the 25 watt (8ohm) amp by next week and do a little EQ'ing and let you guys know the results.

Here's my day's work


This is my old setup, Orion HCCA 5s mids. These 5.25" mids were beefy! They had pretty good midbass and had a 2.75" mounting depth...








Here's the beast!









The Orion HCCA 5s tweeter mounts are just a TAD larger than my LPG tweeter. What I had to do was sand the inside of the orion mounts until it's the tickness of 2 sheets of paper! Then I managed to slip in the LPG.










David


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> Here's the beast!


i hope you dampened and sealed that thing up really well.. it really makes all the difference<!!

hows it sound btw???? :wink:


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

It sounds really clear and crips even without the deflex pad behind the mids or any major EQ'ing. The midbass is by far the most noticable, brining my sound stage very upfront. I definately need to get some damping in there.... But I haven't found a good price/source for damping yet. Still waiting for rick's respond (from Raamaudio).

David


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## cdj (Mar 7, 2005)

*Telarc's "An Organ Blaster"*

drocpsu,

This disc will give your system a work-out. I don't know if it has a 16Hz note but comes close.

http://www.telarc.com/gscripts/title.asp?gsku=0277&mscssid=RK8J01C33N269H94FXK1URDAXT03D2S5

I enjoy good organ music, just can't take extended listening sessions. It must be an acquired taste!


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Hehe! Cool, I'll take a look at that to hear how good my system sounds now!

Thanks

David


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Nice review! Looks like that doorpanel is really covering a good chunk of your mid though... does the surround ever contact the door either at high excursion?


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## Tirefryr (May 15, 2005)

Have you retained full functionality of the window mechanism with these? What's the depth BTW?


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

npdang, Yeah, stupid door cover covers the mids :/ But the good news is that there's a bit more than 1/2 inch for the surrounds to move.

Tirefryr, The mouting depths were 3.1" and I can still roll my windows all the way down. (the trick is, install the mids while the windows are down so you can see where it will touch the window).

David

PS. I will have a complete review in a few weeks


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> |Tch0rT| - Good luck with those. Hey if they don't match, that's not necessary a bad thing either  It's an excuse to buy more details mids!
> 
> Let us know how it sounds when you get them hooked up! By the way, how are you mounting them? Another thing stoping me from picking them up was that I don't think those screw holes would look good if it was mounted on the door panel.



LOL you read my mind xDeLiRiOuSx! Does anyone know how Peerless CSX 850518 6.5" mids stack up against other SQ drivers like the ones I see recomended on here a lot (i.e. Seas CA18RNX)?

I'm probably going to mount the Phass tweeters on a MDF board (rounded out to match the circumference of the tweeter's base) and use the screws with the hexagon shape (I forget what they are called, but I like them way better than philips or flat head). I'm going to mount them in the doors (I have no other good place in my car and I can't afford or make kick panels at this time). I think it'll look ok if I can pull it off that is...

Ryan


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Ryan, that tweeter would look very big if you mount it on top of the doors. MAYBE you may want to build super small kicks. It'll cost no more than $50. The advantage is that it will look cleaner. Also if you decide to try other tweeters in the future you can.

What I mean is, if you drill a huge hole on your door right now (and those ugly screw holes)... Then when you want to try something compact (like the beautiful/remarkable LPG 25NFA), then you would have to fiberglass over the old tweeter hole... You see what I'm getting at?

Also, I saw a friend get his tweeter kicks done. Man they look really really nice. It adds a bit of style to his car. He had in a 94 carmy XLE, and it sounded sweet. Also it was big enough so that in the future he could swap out other large tweeters (ie the 2" large dome ones).

As for midbass. The seas CA18RNX is BY far the best midbass drivers I HAVE ever heard. I love it so much! I don't know about pearless (which I heard is pretty good as well)... But I'd just go with the CA18RNX, make sure you have 3.25" mounting depth.

David


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

I am currently running Seas Excel 4.5" mids and Hiquphon OW2s in my kicks with a Seas L18 in each door. npdang recommended all of the Seas drivers to me and some ribbons. I was too chicken to try the ribbons this time but sooner or later I will purchase some. 

I have to experiment more with the kicks but clarity of sound is ulike anything I have heard in a car before. But I live in NH and there are not many audiophiles out here. I would highly recommend any of the Excel drivers.

Hey 10K2HVN, how do you like those Seas 7" drivers you are using?


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

tf1216 said:


> I am currently running Seas Excel 4.5" mids and Hiquphon OW2s in my kicks with a Seas L18 in each door. npdang recommended all of the Seas drivers to me and some ribbons. I was too chicken to try the ribbons this time but sooner or later I will purchase some.
> 
> I have to experiment more with the kicks but clarity of sound is ulike anything I have heard in a car before. But I live in NH and there are not many audiophiles out here. I would highly recommend any of the Excel drivers.
> 
> Hey 10K2HVN, how do you like those Seas 7" drivers you are using?


my ribbons are sitting on the floor unmounted. theyve been in and out of my car at least 10 times, in and out of my friends car at least 5 times, and in and out of my house about 15 times! sometimes when i forget to brace the ribbon with my foot, and take a turn, they roll across my floor! i havent dropped my ribbons yet, but im sure they can take at least a 3ft drop fine!

i like my L18's a lot! theyre freaken awesome! great midbass, awesome lowend extension, great midrange (when xovered low, mines at 1.1khz 12db/oct, ribbons at 2.2khz 24db/oct) and great output!

honestly, if my car was wired up a little more prettier, and my amps were mounted, id take home first place at the SLAP show this weekend.


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

tf1216 said:


> I am currently running Seas Excel 4.5" mids and Hiquphon OW2s in my kicks with a Seas L18 in each door. npdang recommended all of the Seas drivers to me and some ribbons. I was too chicken to try the ribbons this time but sooner or later I will purchase some.
> 
> I have to experiment more with the kicks but clarity of sound is ulike anything I have heard in a car before. But I live in NH and there are not many audiophiles out here. I would highly recommend any of the Excel drivers.
> 
> Hey 10K2HVN, how do you like those Seas 7" drivers you are using?


Hey do you have pics of that setup? I plan on using the Excel 4.5" mids as well. How do you like them?


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> What I mean is, if you drill a huge hole on your door right now (and those ugly screw holes)... Then when you want to try something compact (like the beautiful/remarkable LPG 25NFA), then you would have to fiberglass over the old tweeter hole... You see what I'm getting at?
> 
> As for midbass. The seas CA18RNX is BY far the best midbass drivers I HAVE ever heard. I love it so much! I don't know about pearless (which I heard is pretty good as well)... But I'd just go with the CA18RNX, make sure you have 3.25" mounting depth.


I'm pretty much already screwed with the tweeters in the door panels... Not to long ago I took my car to a local shop to get my mids and highs installed (the Peerless mids and Oz Audio Oz-25 tweeters). That was a big mistake. The kid that installed my stuff blew my tweeters and the shop wouldn't do anything about it since I didn't buy the equipment from them and they tried to say the tweets blew since they are around 6 years old and I bought them off the internet. :roll: Needless to say I will NOT be using that shop again for any future installs, which is a shame since they are the ONLY shop in town that does custom installations. Back to the tweeters, I had them install the tweeters in the doors, so now I have blown tweets just sitting there in the door panel. Luckly the Phass are bigger so I just need to open up the holes a little more.

Not to talk total crap about the shop though since they do have a guy that's into high end audio (and I bet he'd like this forum). They should've had him install it instead of the kid that installs the junk the local bass heads buy. Since the install I've been finding dumb mistakes the installer did (other than blowing my tweeters), 1) he said my Peerless mids wouldn't fit with out having to fabricate a new door panel, which is B.S. since I've checked and they will fit with a mounting board (which I requested twice from them now and both times they failed to do something that simple), 2) they wired my door speakers out of phase (that's some what understandable if you've seen a Tube Driver TD475 even though the polarity of the screws are labeled), 3) they accidently grounded my Audiocontrol Four.1 with a mounting screw which introduced a horrible alternator whine, and 4) they used speaker wire so thin it's freaking pathetic (I'm not sure of the gauge but it's like string).

So sometimes it really is just better to DIY.  

Thanks for the opinion on the Seas driver, those are looking more and more appealing when I get some more funds. Though I'll have to do some fabricating to get them to fit properly in my current car.

Ryan


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Ryan, what kind of car do you have? You'll be surprised when you have the mids in one hand and your door panel on the other. I DID NOT think mine would fit. It fit suprisingly well in the end. Seas drivers (CA18RNX) are pretty cheap so give them a shot, you'll be happy with the results!

David


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## TomT (May 19, 2005)

10K2HVN said:


> my ribbons are sitting on the floor unmounted. theyve been in and out of my car at least 10 times, in and out of my friends car at least 5 times, and in and out of my house about 15 times! sometimes when i forget to brace the ribbon with my foot, and take a turn, they roll across my floor! i havent dropped my ribbons yet, but im sure they can take at least a 3ft drop fine!
> 
> i like my L18's a lot! theyre freaken awesome! great midbass, awesome lowend extension, great midrange (when xovered low, mines at 1.1khz 12db/oct, ribbons at 2.2khz 24db/oct) and great output!
> 
> honestly, if my car was wired up a little more prettier, and my amps were mounted, id take home first place at the SLAP show this weekend.


I heard Vinh's car today (chance meetings are cool) and even with the ribbons just laying on the floor it sounded great. The mids played much lower than I would have expected.

So much for my first post. Now to email npdang about a pair of LPGs. . .

TomT


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> Ryan, what kind of car do you have? You'll be surprised when you have the mids in one hand and your door panel on the other. I DID NOT think mine would fit. It fit suprisingly well in the end. Seas drivers (CA18RNX) are pretty cheap so give them a shot, you'll be happy with the results!


I have a 1992 Ford Crown Victoria LX. My Peerless mids have about 3" mounting depth and they barely fit so the Seas might be a tad too big.

Ryan


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

10K2HVN - Sorry, I didn't realize that when I asked you about your 7" speakers, the H1224, they are the sasme as the L18s! You said you had them crossed around 1kHz? What happened to the mid?  Just running 2-way now? Going to upgrade to the Lotus or Excel?

cam2xrunner - I am sorry but I do not have pictures because I am slightly embarrassed about the install. The kicks are angled awkwardly and I have extremely ugly grill covers. The kicks will be re-done soon if you still have interest in seeing the install I would be happy to take pictures for you. 

I love the 4.5" Excels and if I had it to do all over again I would probably get the 5" W15CH001 just because npdang said they were slightly better. He could tell me to jump off a bridge and I would probably do that too : ) I am running the P9 and I find its sound much different than the Eclipse I use to own. IMO the P9 accentuates my music and seems less laid back than the Eclipse. I think the Seas handle it beautifully! Sorry for the long post everyone!


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

yeah, im only running a 2-way right now. Im actually in the middle of fiberglassing kicks right now so i should have my mids in pretty soon.

theres no need use a mid (Lotus/Excel) that slightly better in midrange when im going to be using them for dedicated midbasses. Plus, only running them to 1.1khz, the midrange sounds awesome!

Btw, the L18/CA18RNX should be only 3.1" of mounting depth










Its nice to see you here, TomT!!


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

You're Right Vinny! 

It's roughly 3.08267717 inches!

No wonder I was able to fit them in my car 

David


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## mtnickel (Mar 15, 2005)

*My DIY setup*

Hey guys...just throwin in my 2 cents with my DIY setup.

I run 2 LPG 26NA's (alum)...off an xtant 202m (25 X 2 @ 8 ohms),
along with Dayton RS180's off an xtant a4004 (100 x 2 @ 8 ohm bridged).

Compared to most other stereos, the setup is very detailed. I do think too that the dayton plays up high just fine (2k to 3.2k)...but, i haven't been able to tame the midrange peaks i get...at 800hz and 1.6 or somwhere around there. My 5 band alpine can't get em that great...or i just suck at tuning. So due to forward and peaky midrange (very noticable on certain piano notes up high...ring so badly..eeeek), i'll probably be replacing the mids...throw them in a home theater project or something.

The 26NA's however are very nice and detailed with excellent top end extension. A tad siblance in the 8k or 10k region...but a 2 notch drop in EQ tammed it no problem. Quite impressed with the sound, although i'd love to compare them to the 25NFA's one day.
(if anyone wants to switch, i'd trade for a bit  )

Now i'm gonna try the XXX mids. I can't wait to here the midbass and insane output. I love it loud, so i guess they're for me....i'll let you guys know what i think of em when i get them in.
Just gotta find a nice 2 channel amp now to run em. Can't use the 4 channel bridged on the 2 ohms.
Ok, well hopefully someone found this interesting.

PS. Do we all go to Npdang for setup recommendations? he's too much of a veteran i guess with all the driver experience he has. 

Peace from Canada


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Good luck trying to fit those XXX's  They were a dream for me, A dream I could never reach. I'm happy with my CA18RNX though!

David


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

I ran the XXX mids and they are indeed spectacular in my singular opinion

midrange is supreme

unless you have a small door, id go sealed if you want the most effective midbass

in my ridiculously large IB door the XXX midbass was good, not great. 

Id bet sealed theyd be awesome

I was not seeing 13mm xmax Ill tell you that

god luck


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## creed (May 23, 2005)

i ran the Vifa PL18 midbass along with a NorthCreek D25 tweeter, still yet to unleash the full potential of this combination...

currently i cross the NorthCreek highpass at 2.4k, while the Vifa from 2.4k down to 71hz...this setting ideal? still yet to experience different crossover setting to c which one is the nicest of all...


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## BBOYSTEVIE (May 2, 2005)

I can now chime in, as I just ordered the seas CA18RNX and Fountek Neo 3's. Will put them in this summer, replacing the DLS UR36S's that never really turned me on too much.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

BBOYSTEVIE, nice choice on the ribbons. I was thinking of those but didn't want to move away from the stock looks. So i stuck with simple door mounted 25NFAs 

David


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## MiloX (May 22, 2005)

David, 

By looking at the lock mechanism in your car... is it an Acura/Honda?


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

MiloX,

Yeah your right! It's a good old 1994 Honda Accord 2 door coupe  

David


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## MiloX (May 22, 2005)

Cool. Great ride. 

It looks like I am going to be running the same front stage setup that you have. 

Where do you have the SEAS mids crossed?


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

creed said:


> i ran the Vifa PL18 midbass along with a NorthCreek D25 tweeter, still yet to unleash the full potential of this combination...
> 
> currently i cross the NorthCreek highpass at 2.4k, while the Vifa from 2.4k down to 71hz...this setting ideal? still yet to experience different crossover setting to c which one is the nicest of all...



i run my PL's from 63-3.2k. 12 db/oct slopes on both ends. they sound OK. ive tried steeper slopes, but cant really tell a difference. my doors need some deadening. maybe that will help some. :?


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## mtnickel (Mar 15, 2005)

newtitan said:


> I ran the XXX mids and they are indeed spectacular in my singular opinion
> 
> midrange is supreme
> 
> ...


Wouldn't you get more Xmax in an IB setup...its more like free air. Small sealed boxes will add more suspension and stiffness to the cone and restrict movement. I'm not sure Sealed would result in more midbass...can anyone pipe in on this? 

As for fitting them in...i've made custom aimed DOOR pods that bolt into the door...my daytons fit right now, but i'll have to cut a hole out the back of them and also get out the grinder and notch out the door a bit more....at least now i'll be able to put any mid i ever desire in . 

Anyways...i'm thinkin of sellin the Alum LPG's and swapping in the Silks...was also gonna try them up high too to raise soundstage...lacking right now.

Ok. Later boys.

Mark


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

the only way you would get more output on the low end with XXX is sealing them as they are designed to work ideal in 0.3 cu ft sealed and 0.5 cu ft ported

they are like mini subs almost

have you seen the motor on them its rather crazy

my truck doors are enormous and once I matted them to all heck, it was just too much air for a NON IB designed woofer to handle

the only IB environment id recommend would be sedan door so the woofer is not working with so much air

midrange is downright fantastic though to my ears


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## MIAaron (May 10, 2005)

Mini,
You're running those PL's pretty high. I wasn't to fond of them with anything over 2.4-2.6. I don't even want to think about what they sound like @ 3.2. This was in home though.

Have you tried them with a lower xover point?


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

MiloX said:


> Cool. Great ride.
> 
> It looks like I am going to be running the same front stage setup that you have.
> 
> Where do you have the SEAS mids crossed?



Thanks! I love my ride. and you will LOVE your front stage 

I have yet to have time to tweak mysetup. But right after dropping them in, I found that 63hz to 2khz was pretty decent on the mids. And then 2khz and up for the tweeters. I may try to move the xover point up to 2.5khz but haven't had time to even try that!

David


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

creed said:


> i ran the Vifa PL18 midbass along with a NorthCreek D25 tweeter, still yet to unleash the full potential of this combination...
> 
> currently i cross the NorthCreek highpass at 2.4k, while the Vifa from 2.4k down to 71hz...this setting ideal? still yet to experience different crossover setting to c which one is the nicest of all...


how steep is your lowpass slope for the PL??

I would go a tad lower, otherwise u'll experience "popping" at high levels.


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## MiloX (May 22, 2005)

xDx,

From the specs it appears that there is a 4 point gap in input sensitivity, how well matched are they out of the box, or did you attentuate the tweets at all?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Just to clear the air a bit, the driver's physical excursion is the limiting factor for bass output. It doesn't change whether it's put in a sealed box, or free-air. The only thing that changes is the impedance curve, and the sensitivity... so some frequencies may require more or less power to achieve a given output, but the maximum achievable output won't change.


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

MIAaron said:


> Mini,
> You're running those PL's pretty high. I wasn't to fond of them with anything over 2.4-2.6. I don't even want to think about what they sound like @ 3.2. This was in home though.
> 
> Have you tried them with a lower xover point?



they sound better at around 2.2k. but i dont feel comfortable running my LPG's that low. from what ive read the LPG's shouldnt go lower than 3k. i really didnt like how they sounded with the gap between 2.2 and 3.2.


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## MiloX (May 22, 2005)

minitruck_freq said:


> from what ive read the LPG's shouldnt go lower than 3k.


Ya, I read cheapboy's review and got a bit nervous too. I am planning on using these in my install. Looking at the freq response plot alone, I would have a hard time believing that high passing them at 2.2-2.3k would do any damage to the speaker. I am guessing his recommendation about having a 3k hp cross is for maximum aural performance. 

I am going to try 2.5k and see what happens.


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## creed (May 23, 2005)

sqkev said:


> creed said:
> 
> 
> > i ran the Vifa PL18 midbass along with a NorthCreek D25 tweeter, still yet to unleash the full potential of this combination...
> ...


the slope is at 12db...now i tried at 2k down to 71hz bandpass while having the tweeter highpass at 2k. Is it necessary to match the highpass of tweeter as the lowpass of midwoofer? what i try to say is, if i highpass the tweeter at 3k, does the midwoofer need to be bandpass from 3khz and down? i've heard people leaving gap purposely to make it blend well, but i also keep trying to see whether i can hear the differences..anyone?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

creed said:


> sqkev said:
> 
> 
> > creed said:
> ...


To get the correct acoustic rolloffs, you would probably need to have different crossover points as well as electrical slopes. I'd say in a car 99% of the time if you're using the same slope/cutoff point then it's not going to give you a smooth driver to driver transition.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Update:

Decided that 7.5 watts RMS for the tweeters were enough. I did install the larger amp, but it gave me too much noise at low volumes (tweeters are sensitive to noise). 

Bought 30sqft of Raammat from Rick! Awesome stuff. Easy to work with and does a great job of stopping rattles. After installing the CA18RNX, I thought I could never shut those panels up.... but Raamat did the job. Even on my huge coupe doors! Here are the pictures:


































Since I didn't show you guys before, here's the 1" baffle I made. Actually it's like 1.125" baffle since 1" didn't quite do it, I had to add a layer of Edead in between 










Still haven't really tweaked the system yet. But my favorite part is that it still somewhat looks like a stock setup:










I'll hope I can have time to EQ this later!

David


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

That looks awesome, it really does, looks very stock. How many layers did you use on your door, and what did you close up the access panels with?

Again looks very good, Still considering the CA18RNX myself, and leaning heavily that way.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

demon2091tb, thanks for the complents!

I used two layers on the door itself. and just 1 layer on the outer door panel. I was going to do double on the outer door panel, but it go too thick to close!

To seal off the openings I used thick cardboard. You can use that too, or use plexiglass like npdang did. Anything thick and sturdy would do.

David


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

MiloX said:


> xDx,
> 
> From the specs it appears that there is a 4 point gap in input sensitivity, how well matched are they out of the box, or did you attentuate the tweets at all?


Actually the tweeters had to be boosted by a good 2db because they were only getting 7.5 watts rms!  After that and with a little slope adjustment, they were pretty well matched.

David


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## MiloX (May 22, 2005)

Cool cool cool. Your doors look great. The install looks very clean. Can't wait to get started on mine.


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

for right now:

10 year old mb quart 8" midbasses in door....

silver flute 4 ohm 6.5's in kicks....

mb quart .75" tweets in dash....

heavily deadening....heavily padded front end....

will be swapping in peerless xls 8's soon....and most likely lpg 25na's....

60 watts on each midbass....150 watts on the midranges....and about 90 on each of the tweets...


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Derek said:


> will be swapping in peerless xls 8's soon....and most likely lpg 25na's....
> 
> 60 watts on each midbass....150 watts on the midranges....and about 90 on each of the tweets...


Wow! That's going to sound sweet! When are you going to install all that? I personally would put 150watts on the midbasses and 90 on the midranges, and 60 on the tweeters, just because lower frequency seem to need more overhead power.

David


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> Derek said:
> 
> 
> > will be swapping in peerless xls 8's soon....and most likely lpg 25na's....
> ...


there is a reason why i powered it that way 

i didn't want to move my tweeter amp to get at the wiring....so it stayed with the 90 x 2 amp....

and i love the dynamics of the silver flutes on 150 watts....

and my old ass 8's are only rated for like 80 watts max rms....

but when i get the peerless' in...they'll be getting the 150 x 2 amp....and i'll hopefully being picking up duals 4 channel eclipse amp....so i'll have 85 x 4 on the mids and tweets...


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Ah I see, Nice future setup. I hope it goes well!

How do your tweeters sound with so much power?

If you were reading the older posts of this thread. You'll noticed that I'm only giving my 25nFA like 7.5 watts or so. They sound pretty good already. However, the amp has hissing when I turn the volume all the way down. The gains are also all the way down. I think it's just an old amp that's why it's hissing. I'll probably pick up a old SQ amp for the tweeters later. 

David


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

tweets sound awesome with the power....haven't really noticed any fatigue at all....with all the foam and carpet covering the front of my car....they are not very harsh at all...probably my fave tweeter of all time....

we'll see how the 25na does though  i'm not much of a silk fan....unless it's in the house and i'm on the couch


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

*Update*. Spent sometime with my system this last weekend.

Two things to always be aware of when you hear some poping noise. I sware I thought it was the recording, but it turned out that pioneer RCA input box (pioneer headunits don't have auxillary ports built in, you need to buy an input adapter box) was touching ground metal. I wrapped the metal with two layers of ducktape and the poping noises were gone!

Also, my tweeters were sounding spiffy for the last month, but I finally found out why. My midbass were getting roughtly 45watts RMS and my tweeters were getting 7.5 watts! Naturally, you would think that the tweeters needed to be boosted. So I kept it at around +2 or +3 dbs. Yesterday when I finally sat down to EQ the system. I realized that putting it down to -2db smoothed out the LPG and now I can truely say these tweeters are so great! They sound more opened then any tweeters I have every tried! They also sound so sharp and clear! The LPG tweeters are very efficient, seending them only 7.5watts (gains set at zero!) actually was more than enough.... Wow!

David


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

Hi all, total n00b here...but I wanted to jump in w/ my ghetto fabulous diy component system.

Before you scoff, keep in mind that A) I am pretty new at this stuff but understand the basics, B) my budget is measured in cents due to a baby on the way and a low SAF, and C) I'm a sucker for bargain-basement deals and funny hacks.

So, '05 Mustang, 4" separates in the door plus 8" woofers, 6x8s in back, 2 very small external amps. I got the vifa K10MD mids from PE for $3 each, and dayton ND29TA tweeters for $5 each. Not perfect but blows stock away! Basically, a "proof-of-concept" for me and the wife. I didn't do any matching (although both ohm out around 6 nominally), I mainly went for size and price.

Both drivers are very clean. The tweets are a bit bright but not harsh, and the mids are a little thin but very clean. I suppose an l-pad for the tweeters might help level them out, but I really do like the highs. The factory system came with a crossover which I intend to replace (or at least replace the components; the PCB fits nicely, of course). Surprisingly, the system overall has a little less bass, so I assume the factory mids were designed to go down pretty far. I don't hear any distortion; should I use a HPF or bass blocker anyway?


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

GhettoSQ said:


> I don't hear any distortion; should I use a HPF or bass blocker anyway?


Hrm, I'm not sure I understand your setup. Are you using the factory headunit? If so, then you should know that the factory headunits usually have built in Equalizing that cuts low frequencies. (although some factory system actually have inline HPF's). You have to listen very carefully for distortions. If there are no distortions, and it looks like the speakers are hitting effortlessly, then you'll be fine. 

David


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

Yeah, I am using the factory HU and amps. It has that hidden EQ -- you can actually hear it kick in. Luckily it sounds like it's only one point and not continuously variable, but who knows. I'd like to get a Cleansweep when they're cheaper and I have more cash 

I'll unhook the subs and look at the mids, but they do sound fine. Did I mention I mounted them with poster-tack?


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

GhettoSQ said:


> Yeah, I am using the factory HU and amps. It has that hidden EQ -- you can actually hear it kick in. Luckily it sounds like it's only one point and not continuously variable, but who knows. I'd like to get a Cleansweep when they're cheaper and I have more cash
> 
> I'll unhook the subs and look at the mids, but they do sound fine. Did I mention I mounted them with poster-tack?


Sounds like you're pretty satisified with your system. What I would do with your situation is make nice baffles and mount the speakers better. That will sound better  Take some time to dampen to car. 

Once you've done that. I'd recommend you getting a headunit that can do 3 way (for example a pioneer deh-860mp which will cost around $300). That way you can go active and have better control of your speakers. Get rid of the 6x8's in the back. see if you can fit 7" speakers (with 3.1" mounting depth). If they can fit, I'd recommend you getting the CA18RNX and LPG 25nfa combo. (about $180) Then your setup will sound great. You will need 5 amp channels total (2 for mids, 2 for tweeters, 1 for subs).

David


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

I actually have some Seas CA21RE drivers for the subs (just got today). I'm a little leery of hooking them up since the originals are dual voice coil. If the sub amp is actually a 4-channel, can I safely just tape off the extra set of wires going to each sub? They are connected by a harness at the amp so that end is more tricky. I'm going to test for continuity first too...

I realize the Seas drivers are 8 ohm, but they are rated at a pretty high sensitivity and are a perfect fit. I am worried about how they will sound if they're only getting ~1/4 of the minimal juice the factory drivers get, but if it's safe to hook them up, I'm willing to try it until I can replace the amp.

I am pretty happy, and I think I'd like to keep the factory HU for now (6 cd changer w/ some time alignment). I keep hearing about the LPG 25nfa's so I'll definitely look into it, but right now I'm happy overall. The components came with a neat little box that works as a baffle. I'd like a more solid mounting system but I guess poster-tack has surprising damping qualities


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

GhettoSQ said:


> I actually have some Seas CA21RE drivers for the subs (just got today). I'm a little leery of hooking them up since the originals are dual voice coil. If the sub amp is actually a 4-channel, can I safely just tape off the extra set of wires going to each sub? They are connected by a harness at the amp so that end is more tricky. I'm going to test for continuity first too...


Hrm, I THINK you probably can. But don't take my word for it. You are for sure going to lose half the power. I wonder if you can even bridge it. I wouldn't know, so I don't want to give you wrong advice. Sorry.

About hooking up the 8ohm drivers. Higher impedence speakers are always okay for the amp. For example, if the factory speakers were 2 ohms, then you can do 4, 6 or 8Ohms with no problem. if the factory speakers were 4 ohms, using a 2ohm speaker would probably overheat the amp and cause problems.

My CA18RNX were getting around 40 watts RMS, but I'm thinking of briding my amp and giving them around 80watts. 10K2HVN, told me the difference for him (going from unbridged to bridge) was like night and day 

David


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Look up the term "crest factor" and you can see why your amp is usually outputting far less than it's maximum continuous power rating.


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

David,

I'm not worried about hurting the amp w/ 8 ohm drivers, but I am worried about not getting enough power. It's called a "500 Watt" system, so I'm guessing the subs are getting maybe 50W rms each. If that's split into 2 channels (one for each VC) it would be 25 @ 4 ohm and maybe 15 @ 8 ohm, which seems a bit too little. 

oh, and I just remembered, the factory drivers are 1.2 ohms per coil...wonder if that tiny amp is wired in parallel for a 1 ohm driver on each side? eep.

I am worried about running one of those 2 channels with no load and blowing it, though. What makes an amp bridgeable, and how do I tell if it is?

cheers,
Nat


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

Update: got them in and they work, but they're barely present. They sound better if I up the bass eq on the deck, but eventually they clip. Is this just a question of not enough power? I would be willing to try another amp in the factory location with wiring harnesses, but I don't want to run new wires and drill new holes, and I can't pay someone else to do it. Any advice?


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

GhettoSQ said:


> Update: got them in and they work, but they're barely present. They sound better if I up the bass eq on the deck, but eventually they clip. Is this just a question of not enough power? I would be willing to try another amp in the factory location with wiring harnesses, but I don't want to run new wires and drill new holes, and I can't pay someone else to do it. Any advice?


Hi GhettoSQ, Glad you took the time to try it out. _Hrm, eventually they will clip..._ My only guess is that the amp is overheating, but I'm not sure. I have no experience with stock amps, but if it's anything like an after market amp here's what you can do.

Find the amp, find out how much room you have for a new amp.
The stock amp probably has high level inputs, remote turn on, power and ground, and speaker output. So you need to find an amp that has high level inputs too. 

I'd save up a nice amount, get a sweet 3-way headunit, a nice amp, and a set of good components and you'll be set  Trust me, this car audio thing is a bad addiction. My only cure was to buy the best stuff the first time around so I can avoid costy upgrades.

David


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## BBOYSTEVIE (May 2, 2005)

*My initial DIY experience!!!!!*

Hey folks...just wanted to chime in instead of starting another "OMG I love my speakers post"...My novice $.02 about my new DIY drivers...

Got my Ca18RNX's and Fountek Neo's based on reading from mostly this site and ECA. Deadened the living heck out of my doors. Pics will follow, (maybe on ECA maybe put up a Sounddomain page...right now no internet at home)..... Running off my 8053 head unit.

Upon initial hookup (haven't set EQ yet), WOW I'm impressed. 


Seas x/o at 80 @12-18 db and 1.6khz at 24db and ribbons at 2.0 at 24, though I've been playing around with 2.0 and 2.5 x/0 points. The seas drivers can be crossed over lower (on my HU, that would be 63 hz I think), but when I really crank it, which I will admit I like to do sometimes, I hear either the driver reaching it's limits or something in a door making some sound....crossed over at 80 hz I can really crank it and it's still putting out some serious midbass.....The deep drums in Star War's Imperial March are darn scary

The seas drivers (off an ESX 1752, getting @75-100 watts each at 8 ohms) are powerful, play strong deep midbass nice and clean midrange. Voices sound natural and they image well from the door. The door deadening was pretty darn successful. A few minor peaks to take care of, but this driver seems real easy to work with.

Now the ribbons......oh the ribbons. In kicks, aimed at ear level, both of them aimed generally center-stagish.....I'm glad I resisted the temptation to get more expensive ribbons, as these sound just right to me (off an old 30x 2 Rodek amp). . Very efficient and detailed, non fatiguing...the "high highs" are about as crystal clear and effortless as I think I've heard. I find myself running through my house looking for CD's with nice highs, scanning my computer for MP3 files, just to hear them on the ribbons. 

I'm definately in the ribbon boner club for now.....


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

David,

The Seas woofers sound a good deal better after a little break-in time. I think it was actually the rear speakers clipping (or the amp clipping the rear speakers). I will replace eventually but for now they're a good indicator to keep my eq'ing honest. I do like the fill though, they add a lot of depth.

Turns out the CA21RE wants a much bigger enclosure as well as more power -- I'm gonna try polyfill and maybe an AP vent or snake port. I hooked up the amp in "bridge" config but couldn't hear a difference; I'll try again when the stuffing is in. I'm also thinking about a small monoblock and parallel wiring; about 75W per driver should do it.

As for the vifa mids, after break-in the vocals sound very clear and natural, but the drivers are definitely getting killed by low frequencies. Oh well, bass blockers and another $6.00 pair on the way! If only PE had the BB's in stock I wouldn't be in this fix 

Nat


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

*Re: My initial DIY experience!!!!!*



BBOYSTEVIE said:


> Hey folks...just wanted to chime in instead of starting another "OMG I love my speakers post"...My novice $.02 about my new DIY drivers...
> 
> Got my Ca18RNX's and Fountek Neo's based on reading from mostly this site and ECA. Deadened the living heck out of my doors. Pics will follow, (maybe on ECA maybe put up a Sounddomain page...right now no internet at home)..... Running off my 8053 head unit.
> 
> ...


You have the same set-up as I am probably going to go with. You are running all of your components off an active set-up, right? I'm debating whether to use passive or active... I've got a 4-channel amp I could bridge into both ribbon and mid, 220 X 2 @ 4 ohms, but ribbons are extremely sensitive, right? So I could conceivably get a small 20 x 2 amp to power the ribbons off of and have it work out just fine?

Anyone know the real differences between the Fountek and the LCY ribbons? I know the LCY's have more solid construction, but is it really worth the large difference in price? How would the differences be between small ribbons and the longer ones?

Anyone had experience with the CA18RNX's and the Koda midbasses? Adire's Koda set is the only high-end audio set I've ever heard.

Man... I hate getting excited about this stuff, it seriously keeps me from sleeping some times by just envisioning all the fabrication and fun that is in store.


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

PS: Are these the ribbons you have?

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=422498.13402&pid=1889


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: My initial DIY experience!!!!!*



87DXHatch said:


> You have the same set-up as I am probably going to go with. You are running all of your components off an active set-up, right? I'm debating whether to use passive or active... I've got a 4-channel amp I could bridge into both ribbon and mid, 220 X 2 @ 4 ohms, but ribbons are extremely sensitive, right? So I could conceivably get a small 20 x 2 amp to power the ribbons off of and have it work out just fine?


Not sure what you mean here..? You wanna bridge your amp and make a passive xover for the ribbons and tweets..?

I was suggest you bridge that amp for your midbasses, and get a separate amp for ribbons. 50 (or more) x 2 @ 4 ohms will probably be easier to find then a '20 x 2' amp...



87DXHatch said:


> Anyone know the real differences between the Fountek and the LCY ribbons? I know the LCY's have more solid construction, but is it really worth the large difference in price? How would the differences be between small ribbons and the longer ones?


"The real differences"??? Theyre two totally different highend speakers! itll take a good ear to tell the difference in tonallity after sensitivity.. thats almost like asking whats the difference between a "JL W7" and "MTX 9500", in caraudio terms....

Read this whole thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

That was the first thread I read here, but it makes more sense now that I've read a bunch of other threads pertaining to the topic as well.

And I don't think the subwoofer references was a good one, considering they will sound very similar given the properly sized enclosures/proper alignments (aka gigantic box for 9500, and small/medium sized box for W7 :-D ).

So the Fountek and Aurum Cantus ribbons are similar, according to the thread, but by what degree are the LCY's better? Can you give me any idea? I'm just debating whether I go into further debt with the LCY's, or be satisfied with the Fountek's.

Sorry about the confusion, I was saying I could either bridge my 4-channel into a passive, into a mid and ribbon, or I could bridge it into my mids, and get a small amp for the ribbons. I just worry about all active set-ups and the possibilities of induced noise and nightmare troubleshooting problems.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

87DXHatch said:


> Sorry about the confusion, I was saying I could either bridge my 4-channel into a passive, into a mid and ribbon, or I could bridge it into my mids, and get a small amp for the ribbons. I just worry about all active set-ups and the possibilities of induced noise and nightmare troubleshooting problems.


The definition of an active setup means that each driver has their own AMP channels.

So if you run a 4 channel amp, two channels to your mids and two channels to your ribbons --> that's ACTIVE 

If you use your 4 channel amp, brige them to two channels for the mids, then buy a 2 channel amp for your ribbons --> that's ACTIVE as well.

I personally think you should try powering them mids and ribbons on the same amp FIRST. If you feel you need more power, then think about bridging. 

I can't help you with the ribbons question, hehe, I don't know anything about ribbons. (except that I WANT a pair now because of all the raving...)



David


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Nat,

I'm glad you like the sound of your drivers. Yeah when they finally break it, it sounds like a whole new driver huh? Yeah, a small momo block would work great for the sub. if your whole system runs on one stock amp, then getting a momo amp may even stop the rear speakers from clipping (just a guess).

ooh, watch out for those lower frequencies.. Definately put those bass blocks before you blow those vifa mids.

Good luck with your setup,

David


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> 87DXHatch said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry about the confusion, I was saying I could either bridge my 4-channel into a passive, into a mid and ribbon, or I could bridge it into my mids, and get a small amp for the ribbons. I just worry about all active set-ups and the possibilities of induced noise and nightmare troubleshooting problems.
> ...


I know what going active is, I'm not a moron. You missed the part in the first set-up where I said I would run the amp into a PASSIVE, as in crossover, and then to the mids and ribbons.

Somehow I don't think 75 watts to the mids and 75 watts to the tweeters will be enough, but it would save me from buying another amp, so I might try it. 220 watts with my Koda set was amazing, and I hesitate to give my new setup less power.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

75 watts is a LOT of power for a mid+tweet. But, depending on your setup and all it's very hard to predict whether a 75 wpc amp would be enough for you.

I can tell you that when I'm testing speakers in the home though with test tones, I need hearing protection for anything over 2-3 watts with tweeters. It's damn loud!

With a multimeter reading ac voltage in the car, I cap out at about 3Vrms... which is about 1.5 watt on my ribbon tweeters using music and volume all the way maxed out.


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

Then it sounds like putting a possible 75 watts a side to some Fountek ribbons would be way too much for them, even with the gains minimized. Unless I were to attenuate the input voltage even more through the use of some external processing, such as the crossover, if I were to go active.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

You may need some kind of passive attenuation like an L-pad if you're using a passive. With active I do keep my gains all the way down, and I kill it about -15db on my processor. My ribbons sit at 102dbwm so it's tougher to match to an 88dbwm mid.


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## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

> I know what going active is, I'm not a moron. You missed the part in the first set-up where I said I would run the amp into a PASSIVE, as in crossover, and then to the mids and ribbons.


Sorry, my mistake. I did miss the first part. Guess I'm the moron 

Peace,
David


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

xDeLiRiOuSx said:


> Nat,
> 
> Yeah, a small momo block would work great for the sub. if your whole system runs on one stock amp, then getting a momo amp may even stop the rear speakers from clipping (just a guess).


David,

there are two factory amps, I had originally thought 1 for the subs and 1 for the rest, but it may be 1 for each side in which case I'd get a 5-channel or 2 4-channels w/ 2 bridgeable channels each. I suppose I can just disconnect 1 wire harness to find out  

so, for the two door woofers, I'd use a small monoblock, hopefully with dual outs and high-level ins, or buy a cheap LOC until I can get/make a good one. I'm hoping that running 2 8 ohm drivers in parallel would present a 4 ohm load, with about 150W @ 4 ohms, each driver would get ~75. The max RMS on the Seas is 80W, but the excursion is so short I'd worry about hitting mechanical limits with much more. I like the DEI 250d, although I think the LPF is set at 250hz, and I can't go much below 300Hz on the mids...*sigh*


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## BBOYSTEVIE (May 2, 2005)

87DXHatch said:


> PS: Are these the ribbons you have?
> 
> http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=422498.13402&pid=1889


Yes those are them. Yes a 10 or 20 watt x 2 amp will be fine for them. I'm using my Eclipse HU to cross them over actively. Everyone else already covered everything else. I'd definately go active with this setup. Measuring for and designing the perfect passive for them sounds like a PITA.


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

Hot. Time to start scrounging for cash, or go deeper into debt.


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