# Sound deadening



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

So guys I am looking to purchase some sound deadening… 

This side of the world we have the following:

1. STP
2. Dynamat extreme
3. Vibe
4. Second skin

So Dynamat is the most expensive - Vibe being the cheapest and STP about the middle

Is there a fundamental difference between Dynamat Extreme and say Vibe of STP… at almost double the price?

What do you guys think?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Vibe is good stuff, I’ve used extreme before, tbh I use deadener in combination with other things, I have stainless steel in my roof bonded in and all the roof supports are bonded to the outer skin, basically I wanted as rigid a structure as I could get, then deadened over it with vibe and used closed cell foam in places where the roof lining touched to prevent buzzing, I’d do the same in doors also if I had drivers in them too along with bonding aluminium angle in to stiffen them also


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Resonix if you can get it. If you can't, the only one I would probably chose from that list is Dynamant Extreme... The good more expensive stuff costs more but works a LOT better and you could( if you want) use less of it to get the results of more cheap ****.. let alone ignoring the fact that cheap **** melts. Never heard of Vibe however..


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Resonix if you can get it. If you can't, the only one I would probably chose from that list is Dynamant Extreme... The good more expensive stuff costs more but works a LOT better and you could( if you want) use less of it to get the results of more cheap **.. let alone ignoring the fact that cheap ** melts. Never heard of Vibe however..


Resonix would cost me $300 more because of shipping 


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

I would put Dynamat on top from the ones that you posted. 
Im using Silent coat - similar to STP. works good, adhesion is great. I used a lot material, that I would say is the same as Dynamat Extreme,... rock solid when apply 2-3 layers


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Elektra said:


> Resonix would cost me $300 more because of shipping
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good lord. Yeah if Skizer can't adjust shipping(guessing non-US) Then D/E would be the go-to.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Good lord. Yeah if Skizer can't adjust shipping(guessing non-US) Then D/E would be the go-to.


What’s the cost out of interest between DE and Resonix?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Dynamat


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Elektra said:


> What’s the cost out of interest between DE and Resonix?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


40 sq ft of Resonix is 265$ in the states.
36 sq ft of Dynamat xTreme is 199$ in the states.

Tax and possible shipping charges not included.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

I would add KnuKonceptz Kolossus to your list if you can get it through Amazon.

It is butyl based and tested very well in the MOASDMTT (mother of all sound deadening materials testing thread) here and also weighs in at .96#/sq foot


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> Resonix would cost me $300 more because of shipping
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


maybe not. I can get an international shipping quote. Just pm me on FB


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

seafish said:


> I would add KnuKonceptz Kolossus to your list if you can get it through Amazon.
> 
> It is butyl based and tested very well in the MOASDMTT (mother of all sound deadening materials testing thread) here and also weighs in at .96#/sq foot


Trying to avoid shipping costs so sourcing local


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

seafish said:


> I would add KnuKonceptz Kolossus to your list if you can get it through Amazon.
> 
> It is butyl based and tested very well in the MOASDMTT (mother of all sound deadening materials testing thread) here and also weighs in at .96#/sq foot


Lots of reports of melting in the new Facebook group


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> maybe not. I can get an international shipping quote. Just pm me on FB


Will do


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

SkizeR said:


> Lots of reports of melting in the new Facebook group


do you mind sharing results. Some of us dont touch Facebook


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jroo said:


> do you mind sharing results. Some of us dont touch Facebook


I just did.. lol


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

seafish said:


> I would add KnuKonceptz Kolossus to your list if you can get it through Amazon.
> 
> It is butyl based and tested very well in the MOASDMTT (mother of all sound deadening materials testing thread) here and also weighs in at .96#/sq foot


After seeing others and my own kolossus melt and cost me.. several hundreds once I find the right door cards... never again


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

I have had no problems with the KK I used years ago melting.
That said, I DO live in a cooler climate then many people.


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

Second Skin is fabulous stuff. They have a a bunch of stuff if used together does an excellent job of pure door death. I think it’s on the pricey side but worth every penny.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

seafish said:


> I would add KnuKonceptz Kolossus to your list if you can get it through Amazon.
> 
> It is butyl based and tested very well in the MOASDMTT (mother of all sound deadening materials testing thread) here and also weighs in at .96#/sq foot


That stuff melts at 130 degrees. I would buy STP.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> Lots of reports of melting in the new Facebook group


What is the melting point of Resonix? It is not posted on website.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

619Tundra said:


> What is the melting point of Resonix? It is not posted on website.


Testing is still ongoing but it's been tested to temperatures over 400⁰ without melting. There's technical issues that they believe are related to using bare metal versus painted and what was used to clean the metal so they're currently figuring that out before further testing. 

Here's an excerpt from the FB group:

UPDATE: It appears there might be an issue with the metal panel. As seen in live videos earlier, I ran a set of tests with just Resonix. Both pieces of Resonix on the left side of the panel failed. The pieces on the right didn't not fail, although the on towards the back did loosen a bit. I then cranked it to 300F. Neither piece on the left failed, and despite the further back piece having the corner droop a tiny bit, neither piece failed. 

I will be doing further tests this week to prove or disprove that the metal is the issue, and if so it will be tossed and a new panel will be used. I believe it's possible that the Goo Gone might have absorbed into the metal. I do not seem to have this problem with painted pieces, so if this is the case, the next panel will be painted with high temp engine paint.

As such, until I can prove or disprove that the metal panel is the issue I have removed the video that was posted here. If I can't replicate the problem with another product, the video will go back up. If I can replicate it, these heat tests will be invalidated.

So a few days ago I tested 4 different products for heat resistance. And I ran into a problem that I am trying to solve. Back in Feb of this year, I tested Resonix head to head vs some of the last SDS to ever go out. I put it in the oven at 300F, and then cranked it to 400F, and neither product failed. I took both time lapse and live video, but I didn't keep the time lapse because neither product failed. A few days later, I also took the heat gun to the top side of the metal it was adhered to, and got the metal hot enough to change the color. Still, neither product failed, although Resonix began to look like it might want to peel. From the color change, the steel had to be somewhere between 480-520F.

Something was different this time. Same metal piece, cleaned of residue with goo gone, and then acetone, and then 91 iso right before adhering the CLD. Resonix, Dynamat Xtreme, Roadstage Audio, and Sonic Barrier were all tested at 200F for 3 hours and 250F for 2 hours. Resonix failed at 250F this time. It fell off the horizontal panel and was peeling from the vertical panel. Sonic Barrier also failed, peeling from the horizontal and vertical panels. Dynamat Xtreme and Roadstage Audio appeared unaffected. 

The video above shows the timelapse, and the end pictures of the failures. The time lapse has been sped up in the 200F test as repeated watching showed nothing at all happened, and the 250F was sped up after the CLD stabilized in their final positions.

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## Dsmcolt (Dec 21, 2020)

619Tundra said:


> That stuff melts at 130 degrees. I would buy STP.


I was worried this summer when we had a week plus of 100+ days and a high of 115 or something. Happy to report the knu i installed in the doors 3 weeks prior didnt melt even being on a concrete pad baking all day


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> What is the melting point of Resonix? It is not posted on website.


As I told you on FB.. ResoNix is an S-Corp. Corporations do not melt 

We sell multiple products. Which are you referring to? If CLD Squares, I have no real idea to be perfectly honest. I had them in an oven at 250 for an hour, 350 for an hour, 450 for an hour, and "clean" for an hour without stopping without it dripping or falling off.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

daloudin said:


> Testing is still ongoing but it's been tested to temperatures over 400⁰ without melting. There's technical issues that they believe are related to using bare metal versus painted and what was used to clean the metal so they're currently figuring that out before further testing.


Not trying to be biased, but I'm going to have to say something was definitely wrong with the panel. Ive never seen any deadener peel off like it did in that test, let alone under its own weight. If you have ever tried to remove ResoNix (it is absurdly difficult, especially vs most other brands), you'd know for sure that there was some sort of oil or residue on that steel. Im pretty sure he used wax and grease remover which in fact does leave both behind if not cleaned properly. I learned that the hard way when working at a body shop


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I'll just leave this here for those that are really on the fence about what to use..

While we're still waiting for chris to post the graphs, here is his preliminary results of the latest testing he's done. So far, ResoNix is on top by a pretty wide margin when you look at this appropriately. The testing is done on his rig, using 6" x 6" pieces of CLD. ResoNix damps the peak of the panels resonance by 17db. The next best performer is not unexpectedly NVX, which comes in at an 11.5db reduction. Third being Second Skin, at just below 11db reduction. At first glance, they look like they may be reasonably close in performance at these top 3, until you remember the decibel scale is logarithmic. 17db vs 11db is a 4x difference. Insane. Now if you look at the bottom of the pic, you will see where Chris decided to test ResoNix with half coverage (18 sq inches vs the 36 sq inches) and the half coverage still did better than the full 6x6 of second skin, and very close to NVX. We're not sure about NVX, but we all know ResoNix and Second Skin arent melting under normal conditions whatsoever. Save yourself time, effort, money, while still getting better performance. At near 40 square feet, SS is at 6.30 per sq foot. ResoNix is at 6.65 per square for, but with over 4x the performance


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> I'll just leave this here for those that are really on the fence about what to use..
> 
> While we're still waiting for chris to post the graphs, here is his preliminary results of the latest testing he's done. So far, ResoNix is on top by a pretty wide margin when you look at this appropriately. The testing is done on his rig, using 6" x 6" pieces of CLD. ResoNix damps the peak of the panels resonance by 17db. The next best performer is not unexpectedly NVX, which comes in at an 11.5db reduction. Third being Second Skin, at just below 11db reduction. At first glance, they look like they may be reasonably close in performance at these top 3, until you remember the decibel scale is logarithmic. 17db vs 11db is a 4x difference. Insane. Now if you look at the bottom of the pic, you will see where Chris decided to test ResoNix with half coverage (18 sq inches vs the 36 sq inches) and the half coverage still did better than the full 6x6 of second skin, and very close to NVX. We're not sure about NVX, but we all know ResoNix and Second Skin arent melting under normal conditions whatsoever. Save yourself time, effort, money, while still getting better performance. At near 40 square feet, SS is at 6.30 per sq foot. ResoNix is at 6.65 per square for, but with over 4x the performance


This looks like a 5 year old did the writing. I will not buy any product unless it is fully tested in Federal Standards Tests, not your homie with an oven. Nobody is going to use Acetone or Goo Gone to wipe their doors down. Get real with certified numbers, then we can talk.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> This looks like a 5 year old did the writing. I will not buy any product unless it is fully tested in Federal Standards Tests, not your homie with an oven. Nobody is going to use Acetone or Goo Gone to wipe their doors down. Get real with certified numbers, then we can talk.


Jorge, why the aggressive tone? Just trying to help post the repeatable info that is available to us. 

This isn't testing for heat that you quoted. That's the resonance control. ASTM testing for this is the ASTM E756-05. This is frankly, not very valuable for what we use CLD for, so believe it or not, Chris's testing is as good as we have for how we use it. This astm tests at 200hz only. It does not offer any idea over a specific bandwidth, let alone at a frequency that is even useful to us (60-100hz)

Also, if you do a bit of searching, people recommend goo gone and acetone all the time for cleaning in prep of CLD. Actually, Chris used goo gone for cleaning his panel, which left behind the oil from that. So, yeah..


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

619Tundra said:


> This looks like a 5 year old did the writing. I will not buy any product unless it is fully tested in Federal Standards Tests, not your homie with an oven. Nobody is going to use Acetone or Goo Gone to wipe their doors down. Get real with certified numbers, then we can talk.


Agreed, no one it going to use a household solvent to clean the grease and muck off the inner door before putting on cld. It's obvious that real car audiophiles wipe their doors down with lab grade - crystallized ameno acid doped - cycleohexane that has been tested by federal standards to dissolve frog spit. That's the only REAL way to get the door clean and hear the micro-details.

On a real note. What do you think MOST people use other than isopropyl?


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

It doesn't sound like the people testing this product know what they're doing. Why not get several pieces of unfinished metal for each use? I know this is hard to do and it is a lengthy process to test. Yeah right.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Send me a sample. I'll test it.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Same Guy who did "The Deadening" Massive thread over here /shrug


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

619Tundra said:


> It doesn't sound like the people testing this product know what they're doing. Why not get several pieces of unfinished metal for each use? I know this is hard to do and it is a lengthy process to test. Yeah right.


By using the same piece of metal it took a variable out of the testing completely. Unless you are checking each new piece of metal for the same absolute thickness, roll of the edge from cutting, same batch of alloy, ect, there are other things that could potentially skew the results. Small things that most likely wouldn't make a difference, yes, but things that you would obviously also have a problem with. Plus he is doing it out of his own pocket, so I don't blame him for using the same piece of metal for the single reason to not spend the extra few bucks per test.
Nothing like an armchair quarterback coming to tell someone how wrong they are without adding anything of value themselves. It seems to me like you just have a grudge against something and cant see the forest through the trees.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

619Tundra said:


> Send me a sample. I'll test it.


Buy a sample just like Chris had to do with most of these. And since it's not a "hard and lengthy process" to do and collect good data, it shouldn't be an issue to take over the testing for him.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

This product is advertised as the best, so why not buy some cheap sheet metal and cut it to pieces to test samples? I understand it takes long time to heat up the oven.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> Lots of reports of melting in the new Facebook group


hasn't melted on me here in california,i believe our hottest day this summer was 112


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## ophidia311 (May 3, 2021)

What about stinger roadkill ultimate?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> Send me a sample. I'll test it.


You can purchase right here 

www.resonixsoundsolutions.com


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## jheat2500 (Mar 1, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> You can purchase right here
> 
> www.resonixsoundsolutions.com


I seem to recall this business came about when RAAM went away correct? Is it fair to say the CLD is very close to the same formula as RAAMAT BXT was? If so, it was long regarded as one of, if not the best solutions, especially when combined with ensolite for decoupling purposes. There was quite a bit of testing performed over the last decade while Raamat was still in business, not to mention countless installations that could attest to the quality of the products; so it stands to reason that it would remain a top tier product as long as no significant changes were made. Obviously, if the formula has changed, then Resonix products would require continuous testing to validate its performance over time.

I still have a decent amount of Raamat bxt and ensolite from 15 years ago? that is as good as the day I bought it. Also have some bxt installed on the roof skin of a desert truck that has never been covered up since the day it was installed (roughly 15 years ago) and it's still 100% intact with no failures. It easily sees Temps well over 120* F for days on end too!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jheat2500 said:


> I seem to recall this business came about when RAAM went away correct? Is it fair to say the CLD is very close to the same formula as RAAMAT BXT was? If so, it was long regarded as one of, if not the best solutions, especially when combined with ensolite for decoupling purposes. There was quite a bit of testing performed over the last decade while Raamat was still in business, not to mention countless installations that could attest to the quality of the products; so it stands to reason that it would remain a top tier product as long as no significant changes were made. Obviously, if the formula has changed, then Resonix products would require continuous testing to validate its performance over time.
> 
> I still have a decent amount of Raamat bxt and ensolite from 15 years ago? that is as good as the day I bought it. Also have some bxt installed on the roof skin of a desert truck that has never been covered up since the day it was installed (roughly 15 years ago) and it's still 100% intact with no failures. It easily sees Temps well over 120* F for days on end too!


No, this came about when Sound Deadener Showdown closed. It is not the same product, totally different manufacturer. Raamat is actually a pretty poor product. Lots of reports of melting, sub-par resonance control based on testing, etc.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Raam


619Tundra said:


> This product is advertised as the best, so why not buy some cheap sheet metal and cut it to pieces to test samples? I understand it takes long time to heat up the oven.


I'm sure you're in the midst of buying a new oven and are waiting for all of the products to arrive as we speak.
So I'll be here eagerly awaiting your results


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Does anyone know specifically which Nvx cld product performed well in the Facebook testing?

Looks like nvx only makes two different cld products, but I could be wrong.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

The only notes I see from (that) Chris is that his sample weight 84 grams. I don't know if he ran it thru the heat testing gamut though- I don't see it after a quick search through the facebook group.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

can you apply second skin spectrum on already treaded door cards and panels?


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## Gill (Sep 26, 2007)

Hermes said:


> can you apply second skin spectrum on already treaded door cards and panels?


Clean the surface, and apply a thin quote, let it cure/dry and repeat as needed.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Turb0Yoda said:


> The only notes I see from (that) Chris is that his sample weight 84 grams. I don't know if he ran it thru the heat testing gamut though- I don't see it after a quick search through the facebook group.


I'm going to try out NVX's 20 sqft. CLD kit (SDTK20). 

I've stuck with Dynamat Extreme in the past, due to the fact that its readily available at a fair price, and has been proven to work. But, I found an amazon warehouse deal on 20 sqft. of NVX's CLD (five 18" x 32" pieces) for $33.07 in "very good condition." $1.65/ sqft. is cheap enough for me to try it out. More-so with the consideration that it has tested well.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

My only concern is the heat resistance- but I'm guessing it doesn't get nearly as hot up there in the bay as it does done here- fwiw me swapping from knu to resonix was a hilariously big difference- I have video but it doesn't do it justice.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Turb0Yoda said:


> My only concern is the heat resistance- but I'm guessing it doesn't get nearly as hot up there in the bay as it does done here- fwiw me swapping from knu to resonix was a hilariously big difference- I have video but it doesn't do it justice.


Thats a valid concern and I could still cancel the order.

Has the NVX shown and heat related issues in the Facebook testing? (sorry if this information has already been posted). I don't have a Facebook account.

I would've probably tried resonix by now, but I couldn't get a shipping quote on the automated website. I know I could've reached out to nick for a quote, but the extra effort kills the impulse buy


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Really? I wonder if it's the new site- Nick now does flat. Rate shipping so it's a lot cheaper than befor


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

yeah- 40 sq ft of resonix tiles are 15$ for shipping to Socal- Flatrate... I got a quote now just fine- have to enter shipping address in after hitting "checkout" or whatever.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Turb0Yoda said:


> yeah- 40 sq ft of resonix tiles are 15$ for shipping to Socal- Flatrate... I got a quote now just fine- have to enter shipping address in after hitting "checkout" or whatever.


Oh okay.

I was hesitant to enter my CC info and hit "checkout" without the shipping quote first. I'll go check again.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

It'll pop up here when you put in your shipping info.. used to pop up in the cart before with just the zipcode


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> Lots of reports of melting in the new Facebook group


Yes, I made the mistake of buying kk after reading that thread, and it melted almost immediately in my car as well (Sacramento CA). I was able to arrest it by putting aluminum tape over the seams and it didn’t damage anything, but it was frustrating. I think the reason is because they used so much butyl and when you squish it, it pushes out from under the metal and that unconstrained stuff is what drips.

Here’s an example from a leftover knu sheet in my garage- you can see it starting to squeeze out even before the paper is removed. I had to take a box cutter and trim about a quarter inch off to install it, then cover with aluminum tape to stop the drip:
















Melting aside, the knu is vastly superior to the raammat bxt though in terms of performance.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

I still have not been able to find the right door cards for my car after the knu melted... taking CLD off door cards is a PITA... mucked up one card trying and stopped for now...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

SQ_Bronco said:


> I think the reason is because they used so much butyl and when you squish it, it pushes out from under the metal and that unconstrained stuff is what drips.


This is part of it. When you make a CLD trhats so thick, it makes it so easy to "squish" excess butyl over the edges. This is a problem I am currently facing and am trying to mitigate, but this is NOT the butyl melting. Its just excess from there being so much in the first place. 

Also, when you have a CLD that is so thin, even if it is a ****ty butyl, it still won't drip, because there's just not enough to make it do so under it own weight. This is part of what makes ResoNix what it is. Extremely high performance in resonance control, and the ability to keep its **** together while being so thick. There are levels to this, and we took it to the top


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Nick, I received 10sf of your CLD. This should give me about 2/3 coverage of my roof. I'm now second guessing not getting enough for 100% coverage. I have Friday free to pull the headliner & install it, but doesn't look like I'll get another opening for a while & I'd much prefer to only pull the headliner once. Not enough time to get another box of Resonix. Think that will be a sufficient amount? I could pick up some lesser quality stuff to fill in what doesn't get covered by the Resonix, if that seems like a decent compromise.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

I have a few tins of the Brax X-Paste I wonder if that is good for door cards…


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

hella356 said:


> Nick, I received 10sf of your CLD. This should give me about 2/3 coverage of my roof. I'm now second guessing not getting enough for 100% coverage. I have Friday free to pull the headliner & install it, but doesn't look like I'll get another opening for a while & I'd much prefer to only pull the headliner once. Not enough time to get another box of Resonix. Think that will be a sufficient amount? I could pick up some lesser quality stuff to fill in what doesn't get covered by the Resonix, if that seems like a decent compromise.


You'll be totally fine with 2/3 imo


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hella356 said:


> Nick, I received 10sf of your CLD. This should give me about 2/3 coverage of my roof. I'm now second guessing not getting enough for 100% coverage. I have Friday free to pull the headliner & install it, but doesn't look like I'll get another opening for a while & I'd much prefer to only pull the headliner once. Not enough time to get another box of Resonix. Think that will be a sufficient amount? I could pick up some lesser quality stuff to fill in what doesn't get covered by the Resonix, if that seems like a decent compromise.


2/3rds should be fine, but if you want that extra in time by Friday, shoot me an email and I can make it happen. [email protected]


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> 2/3rds should be fine, but if you want that extra in time by Friday, shoot me an email and I can make it happen. [email protected]


Thanks, I'm feeling better about sticking with what I've got. What I've read suggests Resonix needs less percentage of coverage than others to be effective, so should be fine. Will definitely be better than the zero amount in place now.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hella356 said:


> Thanks, I'm feeling better about sticking with what I've got. What I've read suggests Resonix needs less percentage of coverage than others to be effective, so should be fine. Will definitely be better than the zero amount in place now.


Yes. Even with the next best products that have been tested, you could use half the coverage and still end up with the same performance. But, more is always better, even if it's past diminishing returns. It's all about how far you want to take this.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> Yes. Even with the next best products that have been tested, you could use half the coverage and still end up with the same performance. But, more is always better, even if it's past diminishing returns. It's all about how far you want to take this.


Straddling the diminishing returns line is good, and the amount I have already seems a bit beyond that line, so looking great. Thanks for the honest advice.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

my top 2:

Second Skin
knuconceptz Kollosus


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Elektra said:


> I have a few tins of the Brax X-Paste I wonder if that is good for door cards…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes it is. Best results are obtained whem combining with a damping mats. In one of previous cars I had 3 layers od Dynamat extreme and approx 5-7 mm thick spread of Brax Paste.... doors were like they were made out of concrete, lol. I dont like to reduce it with watter and I apply it with spatula - it is easyer to control thicknes of the applyed material. When it dryes - in couple of hours/over night it become hard like a stone.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

STP is a real good sound deadening company that makes top quality products. Their top of the line Aero withstands temperatures up to 212*F . I highly recommend it over anything else.


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## Dsmcolt (Dec 21, 2020)

619Tundra said:


> STP is a real good sound deadening company that makes top quality products. Their top of the line Aero withstands temperatures up to 212*F . I highly recommend it over anything else.


Do you have a link to these products?


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Standartplast.com


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Stp has everthing you need. They even have a heavy duty thicker product called Bomb Aero. They have posted Data and test results.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

619Tundra said:


> Stp has everthing you need. They even have a heavy duty thicker product called Bomb Aero. They have posted Data and test results.


I just bought a bulk pack of Bomb today…. Gonna try it tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> STP is a real good sound deadening company that makes top quality products. Their top of the line Aero withstands temperatures up to 212*F . I highly recommend it over anything else.


Have you actually used STP? lol
212 F in a car is not high, like, at all. Standard testing for manufacturers is 250 F for Hours.
I had to scrape off STP and Noico off my civic doors when i started Resonix. Turned into the consistency of something like Vaseline after a couple years.
Also, chris's resonance control testing didnt show it to be of anything worthy of using.


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## Dsmcolt (Dec 21, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> Have you actually used STP? lol
> 212 F in a car is not high, like, at all. Standard testing for manufacturers is 250 F for Hours.
> I had to scrape off STP and Noico off my civic doors when i started Resonix. Turned into the consistency of something like Vaseline after a couple years.
> Also, chris's resonance control testing didnt show it to be of anything worthy of using.


Ordered a full box of resonix today


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Dynamat xtreme is the best product on the market now that the SDS tiles are long gone. 

IMO, the rest of it is commodities outside of thickness. Noico, fatmat, Siless, whatever... It's all butyl based stuff with thin foil that will do what you need to do but isn't as well engineered as SDS tiles were but it's what people feel good about doing.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> Have you actually used STP? lol
> 212 F in a car is not high, like, at all.


Yeah that's why if you leave a water bottle in your car and come back it will be at a rolling boil...


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

FAUEE said:


> Dynamat xtreme is the best product on the market now that the SDS tiles are long gone.
> 
> …


I pretty much feel the same.

Dynamat extreme performs well in testing, and it’s been around for a long time proving that it can stand up to real world automotive conditions. I also like the fact that it is possible to remove if need be (without a ridiculous amount of effort).

It’s also very competitively priced and readily available.

I don’t know of another cld product that checks all these boxes.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> Standartplast.com





Chris12 said:


> I pretty much feel the same.
> 
> Dynamat extreme performs well in testing, and it’s been around for a long time proving that it can stand up to real world automotive conditions. I also like the fact that it is possible to remove if need be (without a ridiculous amount of effort).
> 
> ...



second skin to me is equivlent to dynamat. might even say better.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

FAUEE said:


> Dynamat xtreme is the best product on the market now that the SDS tiles are long gone.
> 
> IMO, the rest of it is commodities outside of thickness. Noico, fatmat, Siless, whatever... It's all butyl based stuff with thin foil that will do what you need to do but isn't as well engineered as SDS tiles were but it's what people feel good about doing.


Not true. I suggest joining "The Deadening" group. Dynamat extreme is the middle of the pack for resonance control and does well in terms of not melting. There are many options that perform better for resonance control though. 

Here is a link to the post of the last testing. In the comments, he posts a quick explanation, but he's yet to post the full graphs. 



https://www.facebook.com/groups/651457188787366/posts/796705817595835/





Here is the pic that generalizes the results from that days testing..


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Hermes said:


> second skin to me is equivlent to dynamat. might even say better.


thankfully, we have some testing to show what is better. See the link i posted above


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

FAUEE said:


> Yeah that's why if you leave a water bottle in your car and come back it will be at a rolling boil...


for air temp, cars can reach 150F no problem. But the air isnt what we are concerned about. We care about the temperature of the metal. That will be much hotter than the air in the car.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> Have you actually used STP? lol
> 212 F in a car is not high, like, at all. Standard testing for manufacturers is 250 F for Hours.
> I had to scrape off STP and Noico off my civic doors when i started Resonix. Turned into the consistency of something like Vaseline after a couple years.
> Also, chris's resonance control testing didnt show it to be of anything worthy of using.


I did buy STP product. I am going to test it before I put it on my truck. I feel confident that this product will give me good results. I'm also gonna grab a piece of your resonix stuff from a local dealer, test it and see what the big fuzz is about.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> I did buy STP product. I am going to test it before I put it on my truck. I feel confident that this product will give me good results. I'm also gonna grab a piece of your resonix stuff from a local dealer, test it and see what the big fuzz is about.


So how are you going to test it? Please tell me it's going to be the oh-so-scientific and repeatable knock test... Also, considering that you have randomly blocked me on Facebook a couple of days ago, I'm very confident that this testing of yours won't be biased.. lol

Also, we don't have dealers, so...


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

The temperature inside your car will never reach 250 F. The outside of a car's surface painted black, parked in direct sunlight under 120 F summer weather can reach up to 207 F on horizontal areas like the hood, trunk lid, and roof. The interior areas that get the most heat are the dash, steering wheel, and seats that are in direct sunlight.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

I would never block any of my friends on fb. Let me check that.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> The temperature inside your car will never reach 250 F. The outside of a car's surface painted black, parked in direct sunlight under 120 F summer weather can reach up to 207 F on horizontal areas like the hood, trunk lid, and roof. The interior areas that get the most heat are the dash, steering wheel, and seats that are in direct sunlight.


I don't think I said the inside will get to 250. I just told you what manufacturers that make this stuff for OEM's have to abide by. Not that I would know or anything.......

So yeah, tell us more about your planned testing?


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

I'm getting some from Gary. I will put the STP Aero and Resonix side by side on a piece of clean metal and will use circulating oven to heat the element to 250 F for 2hrs. I will take pictures and post them. I have nothing against your product. I think you're a brilliant guy. But I want to find out for myself who truly makes the best product. I don't want you to think I'm being hostile for revealing the truth.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> thankfully, we have some testing to show what is better. See the link i posted above


my car was in mesa last year for almost 2 weeks in mid july. temps got up to 118. i had noico in the trunk and doors. zero melt. a little gummy but didnt fall off door card or panels. i normally use second skin. i know about your company. you got fan boys, obvious you make a good product. question is.... is it worth it.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Hermes said:


> my car was in mesa last year for almost 2 weeks in mid july. temps got up to 118. i had noico in the trunk and doors. zero melt. a little gummy but didnt fall off door card or panels. i normally use second skin. i know about your company. you got fan boys, obvious you make a good product. question is.... is it worth it.


heres chris's notes from his testing. Thats your call. but testing shows that yes, yes it absolutely is and its not even close. Considering the DB scale and how it works, in this test it shows to be 4x more effective than your usual go-to, but at a very similar price


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Honestly would the interior of a car get hotter than 140F? I live in Africa and and I don’t think it gets that hot here 

140F is almost water boiling point… most of us these days park under covers and park in Garages or under carports and most of the time the hottest a car gets is between 12:00 and 14:00 times 

I think if the stuff can withstand 250F before melting off I think that’s fine personally because that over 100deg C which you could not sit inside a car for more than 5mins at best…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> Honestly would the interior of a car get hotter than 140F? I live in Africa and and I don’t think it gets that hot here
> 
> 140F is almost water boiling point… most of us these days park under covers and park in Garages or under carports and most of the time the hottest a car gets is between 12:00 and 14:00 times
> 
> ...


Its more about how long can it last at X temperature. not "can this go to X temperature for 20 mins". People posting results of their Knu Kolossus can attest to that.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

STP is engineered to be installed underneath the hood of your car.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> heres chris's notes from his testing. Thats your call. but testing shows that yes, yes it absolutely is and its not even close. Considering the DB scale and how it works, in this test it shows to be 4x more effective than your usual go-to, but at a very similar price



looks like biased test results and... very local. again, you obviously make a good product. you have fan boys. the question is... is it worth the "EXTRA" money. camaro vs mustang....


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Stay tuned guys.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> STP is engineered to be installed underneath the hood of your car.


im sorry but i cant refrain from not posting this lol


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

If Resonix was available here I would honestly support Resonix but alas we don’t have it here…

STP does millions here every month (According to the rep) it might be worth Nicks while to find a importer for it here… 

STP does a lot of non audio related work…. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> im sorry but i cant refrain from not posting this lol


honestly, you have a have hater. that alone makes me want to try your product. i love competition. it brings out the best in all of us!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Hermes said:


> looks like biased test results and... very local. again, you obviously make a good product. you have fan boys. the question is... is it worth the "EXTRA" money. camaro vs mustang....


do you know anything about the testing and the rig it is done on?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> If Resonix was available here I would honestly support Resonix but alas we don’t have it here…
> 
> STP does millions here every month (According to the rep) it might be worth Nicks while to find a importer for it here…
> 
> ...


Yep. STP is very profitable, so its attractive to shops and distributors. the price to import resonix would be astronomical. I hardly make anything off it as it is, so i dont really have a way to lower it much, even in bulk. Distributors would have to mark that up to dealers, then dealers to end users. Nevermind import and shipping costs. We priced it out to get it to Australia. just its landed cost would have been $16 per square foot. Thats without the distributor and dealer markups.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Yep. STP is very profitable, so its attractive to shops and distributors.


STP compared to the others here is the only “big” company and proper distribution center as the others are like small shop type scenarios 

They obviously have capital as they bring in containers every month… 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> do you know anything about the testing and the rig it is done on?



yes, i do. it also wasnt done in a lab. look, you make a great product... the "BIG" question is... is it worth it.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Maybe resonix is a better product, but has not been tested against STP Aero. I'm not against you Nick you're relentless with resonix. I'm just trying to test your product.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> Maybe resonix is a better product, but has not been tested against STP Aero. I'm not against you Nick you're relentless with resonix. I'm just trying to test your product.


dude, Resonix is his company. of course he's gonna defend it. he should! he obviously makes a good product. again... is it worth it? i honestly think your wasting breath, money and time. i know of 3 sq competitors that use his products exclusively. fyi, he's real easy to hate. again, the big question is.... "IS IT WORTH IT"


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

The thing with my friend Nick is that he bashes other brands on sites like these. And when it comes to providing official test data for the product, he gets offended. I like Nick, the guy is a geniusi in carr audio installs. I cant wait to place in my order for some Accuton Drivers from him.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> The thing with my friend Nick is that he bashes other brands on sites like this. And when it comes to providing official test data for the product, he gets offended. I like Nick, the guy is a geniusi in carr audio installs. I cant wait to place in my order for some Accuton Drivers from him.


pretty expensive drivers for a truck. just saying


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

I'll pretend I didn't read that. Lol. I have Audiofrog GB Series Drivers but I listen to what the experts say about this brand. I would like to hear these bad boys soon.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> I'll pretend I didn't read that. Lol. I have Audiofrog GB Series Drivers but I listen to what the experts say about this brand. I would like to hear these bad boys soon.


great, you got chinese speakers in a japanese truck built in south carolina.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Excuse me?


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> Excuse me?


this is a tough crowd here. your coming off as a tyrant.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

The Speakers are designed here in California, built by good human hands in China, ypu know where your phone is made. My Truck is built in San Antonio Texas and it is the most American Full Size Truck on the market today.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

One thing your gonna learn here hermit, is facts.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> The Speakers are designed here in California, built by good human hands in China, ypu know where your phone is made. My Truck is built in San Antonio Texas and it is the most American Full Size Truck on the market today.



"built by good human.. slave hands of the communist republic of china" gotcha. thanx for sharing!


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Be careful of that kind of language on this forum. I think the Admin is Chinese American. Be respectful man. It is a global market.


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> Be careful of that kind of language on this forum. I think the Admin is Chinese American. Be respectful man. It is a global market.


do some searching on this forum about " KOUNTZ" i have a track record of stirring up the pot and calling a spade a spade. i just think youre border line a troll or a shlt starter. let me do my job. stand back.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Here is some of the testing results for those that dont have access to the facebook group. If you thought dynamat extreme was good.. here are the measurements

(click this photo, itll bring you to a post of all of the pics)



http://imgur.com/a/ovabKhB



Of course i defend it, but i dont bash anything else. I just comment the results based on what chris has tested. if you dont want to believe in or look into his testing, that, frankly, just sucks for you. By creating this product, i offered you something that is truly so much better than anything else available in the US. As far as STP Aero, they posted their Composite Loss Factor Graph. It has a CLF peak of 0.35.. Yeah, sorry Jorge, but not even in the same league as Resonix. Im literally just trying to offer you guys a good product, but for some reason you guys seem to want to spend more, apply more, and still not achieve the same results. ****, keep it going, because i make more on it when i install it at my shop vs shipping it


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Here is some of the testing results for those that dont have access to the facebook group. If you thought dynamat extreme was good.. here are the measurements
> 
> (click this photo, itll bring you to a post of all of the pics)
> 
> ...


For me right now I want to make door solid - the constant buzzing in the car is actually driving me crazy…

Being a BMW it’s not bad in terms of road noise albeit louder than my previous F10 535d which I measured 55db at 120kph on the highway and 50db parked so it’s pretty quiet as a OEM car..

The 2.0d motor is louder than the 3.0d motor so yeah it’s noisier… I am going to use STD Bomb on the doors for now and when I do the actual install I’ll strip the interior out and go a bit more in depth in vibration and noise deadening 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> for air temp, cars can reach 150F no problem. But the air isnt what we are concerned about. We care about the temperature of the metal. That will be much hotter than the air in the car.


If you park a black car in full sun at death valley on the hottest day of the year, maybe. But not in the real world.

If your metal skin got to 250F from sitting in the sun, it would burn you if you tried to open a door. Even if the outside of the door skin somehow did make it to 250F, you'd also need it to thermally transfer that heat to the inside door skin, paint, and then the butyl layer. Not to mention it wpuld have to heat soak all the other items attached to it. 

250F is a good temperature to test at because it's extreme, and a nice round number. If it it survives testing atb 50F, it'll survive in real world use.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> Not true. I suggest joining "The Deadening" group. Dynamat extreme is the middle of the pack for resonance control and does well in terms of not melting. There are many options that perform better for resonance control though.
> 
> Here is a link to the post of the last testing. In the comments, he posts a quick explanation, but he's yet to post the full graphs.
> 
> ...


It's very true, you're aware of the previous testing that showed dynamat xtreme had the best performance per weight of everything tested. That's what really matters IMO, how much dampening you get for a given added weight.

Maybe other people don't find weight to be a factor and dampening per dollar is what they care about, but not me. I want to add as little weight as possible while getting some dampening, and dynamat xtreme is the best for that., based off testing.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Delete (misread quote)


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

FAUEE said:


> It's very true, you're aware of the previous testing that showed dynamat xtreme had the best performance per weight of everything tested. That's what really matters IMO, how much dampening you get for a given added weight.
> 
> Maybe other people don't find weight to be a factor and dampening per dollar is what they care about, but not me. I want to add as little weight as possible while getting some dampening, and dynamat xtreme is the best for that., based off testing.


You're not looking at the big picture. Go to the imgur link I just posted. Dynamat extreme and ResoNix are both on there. Dynamat extreme weighs 0.45lbs per square foot. ResoNix weighs 1lb per sq foot. Dynamat Extreme dampens the peak resonance of the panel in that test about 7.5db. ResoNix, with the same sized piece, dampens the peak by 17db. If you do the math, ResoNix is over 4x as effective, yet only 2x the weight. This shows that you could apply the same amount of weight of either but still get 2x the performance out of ResoNix. Oh, to make it even better, ordering the same amount by weight would also be cheaper with ResoNix. Glad I could help you


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> You're not looking at the big picture. Go to the imgur link I just posted. Dynamat extreme and ResoNix are both on there. Dynamat extreme weighs 0.45lbs per square foot. ResoNix weighs 1lb per sq foot. Dynamat Extreme dampens the peak resonance of the panel in that test about 7.5db. ResoNix, with the same sized piece, dampens the peak by 17db. If you do the math, ResoNix is over 4x as effective, yet only 2x the weight. This shows that you could apply the same amount of weight of either but still get 2x the performance out of ResoNix. Oh, to make it even better, ordering the same amount by weight would also be cheaper with ResoNix. Glad I could help you


Looked at another way, if I do my door it's going to be twice as heavy with resonix than it would be with dynamat. Or in more realistic terms, if I tap on my door and find a few places where it resonates the worst, put some dynamat on it, and then do a little around the speaker area, the resonix would weigh 2x as much while giving me additional dampening that I may or may not care about. 

Granted, that's my take on stuff. For someone who is gonna just order a bunch of material and cover everything till it runs out, your stuff may be better. But for someone like me who cares more about not adding weight than those last few nuggets of sound, it's dead weight.

Thats why I liked the SDS tiles so much. You could use a tile or a half of a tile on a door and you were done. Little weight added, plenty of dampening, done.


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Elektra said:


> For me right now I want to make door solid - the constant buzzing in the car is actually driving me crazy…
> 
> Being a BMW it’s not bad in terms of road noise albeit louder than my previous F10 535d which I measured 55db at 120kph on the highway and 50db parked so it’s pretty quiet as a OEM car..
> 
> ...


Here ya go.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

FAUEE said:


> .Thats why I liked the SDS tiles so much. You could use a tile or a half of a tile on a door and you were done. Little weight added, plenty of dampening, done.


Okay. Yeah. This made it clear that we have two different ideas of what is an acceptable level of damping. One or two tiles of SDS is not even worth the effort to take the time in my opinion.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Hermes said:


> do some searching on this forum about " KOUNTZ" i have a track record of stirring up the pot and calling a spade a spade. i just think youre border line a troll or a shlt starter. let me do my job. stand back.


Dude the over/under on you is 5 days! Lotta money riding on you one way or the other! And for what's it's worth couldn't even get even money on the under!!! Come on KOUNTZ!!!


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> Okay. Yeah. This made it clear that we have two different ideas of what is an acceptable level of damping. One or two tiles of SDS is not even worth the effort to take the time in my opinion.


Yeah I mean, that's to be expected. You run a car stereo shop. I want a "good" sounding stereo, not competition good, but just something that lives in the space above an oem Bose system, without adding a ton of weight or taking up any useful space. 

I did the "audio over all else" stuff before and frankly, I don't see myself going back.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Hermes said:


> do some searching on this forum about " KOUNTZ" i have a track record of stirring up the pot and calling a spade a spade.


Dude, that is just the SHORT track record ... why are you leaving out the lying and stealing, and the threatening people and the false claims, and then even more lying...the list goes on and on !!!

In fact, as you seem to proudly point out, JimmyDee started an entire thread about you just to consolidate all the lies you have told and people you have threatened!!!

That said, you DO seem to be a little nicer ,and MAYBE lie a little less, when you manage you stay on your meds and/or otherwise mange to control your sociopathic and psychopathic behaviours.

Just sayin'


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

seafish said:


> Dude, that is just the SHORT track record ... why are you leaving out the lying and stealing, and the threatening people and the false claims, and then even more lying...the list goes on and on !!!
> 
> In fact, as you seem to proudly point out, JimmyDee started an entire thread about you just to consolidate all the lies you have told and people you have threatened!!!
> 
> ...


I might bs but I'm not a thief. 25 years later still triggered


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Hermes said:


> I might steal but I’m not a thief


Fixed it for you. (That’s before you edited your post)


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

DaveG said:


> Fixed it for you. (That’s before you edited your post)
> View attachment 311608


Lame...


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Thief of our damn time that's for sure 😆


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Of course you are a thief...what else can one call it??

You bought a perfectly working pair of Audible Physics speakers from me that were perfectly packaged and arrived to you in perfect working order, by your own admission.

Then somehow you, or maybe your installer, dropped them and came up with the lame lie that it was "bad glue" and that the AP speakers are known to have bad glue ... so I reluctantly refunded your money based on others advice here (cuz none of us understood your psychopathic ways yet !!!) 

FYI -- I have had people APOLOGIZE to me for that advice since !!!

Then you ALSO contacted Audible Physics customer support and gave them another lame story and you claim that they sent you a new pair of speakers to replace the broken ones... which you kept !!!!

This is what I sent you and what you happily acknowledged receiving--









And this is what I got back after refunding your money was a pair of speakers that looked like this--















Oh yes, you also sent some perverse satanic threats that are now on file with Paypal's Security Dept.


If you are up to the task, please explain how that is NOT stealing ???

And why the hell should I simply forget what you did??


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

seafish said:


> Of course you are a thief...what else can one call it??
> 
> You bought a perfectly working pair of Audible Physics speakers from me that were perfectly packaged and arrived to you in perfect working order, by your own admission.
> 
> ...


I can't believe how triggered you are and how you just refuse to accept reality. The speaker was defective because the manufacturer used a defective glue which housed the magnet to the basket. The company admitted this. I don't know what's so hard for you to comprende with this. why don't you reach out to them they'll probably remember every word that was spoken between the two of us. You're responsible in the transaction soley because you sold it to me. We know we get it... you're not an engineer but you sold me a defective speaker. this company has admitted to this of using some type of defective glue that they no longer use anymore. Why is it so hard for you to understand?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Anyone wanna still talk about sound deadening...?


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## Dsmcolt (Dec 21, 2020)

Yeah where is my resonix i ordered two pages ago


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## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

JimmyDee said:


> Anyone wanna still talk about sound deadening...?


That's what I came here to read about


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

JimmyDee said:


> Anyone wanna still talk about sound deadening...?


Let's start a fundraiser to get Chris P. to take 2 weeks off of work and all the deadening on the market and get all the testing done...


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Why is it so hard for you to understand?


Probably because everything that comes out of your sad mouth is a lie at least when youre not on your meds !!!

IMO, it IS important for new members to know that you and anything you say is NOT to be trusted. Others here will vouch for that as well. There is a REASON you have been banned multiple times...

Honestly, the hard part to understand is why you keep coming back under different names.

That said, go ahead...get back to talking about sound deadener and/or the latest and greatest iteration of your many complaints about what a ****ty install job that a shop did for you.

I DO apologize to other members for the thread hijack !!!

I'm out.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

seafish said:


> Probably because everything that comes out of your sad mouth is a lie at least when youre not on your meds !!!
> 
> IMO, it IS important for new members to know that you and anything you say is NOT to be trusted. Others here will vouch for that as well. There is a REASON you have been banned multiple times...
> 
> ...











JimmyZ's (aka Kountz) SQ Fiasco Thread


I got a message to take a look at this thread and some of the things being said by the OP in it. This isn't something I'd normally do, and I can't respond in that thread, so I'm going to "clear the air" a bit here and post the long form story to my interactions with this person. First, the...




www.diymobileaudio.com


----------



## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

Dynamat extreme weighs 0.45lbs per square foot. ResoNix weighs 1lb per sq foot. Dynamat Extreme dampens the peak resonance of the panel in that test about 7.5db. ResoNix, with the same sized piece, dampens the peak by 17db. If you do the math, ResoNix is over 4x as effective, yet only 2x the weight.

How is it over 4x effective?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DoubleCrown said:


> Dynamat extreme weighs 0.45lbs per square foot. ResoNix weighs 1lb per sq foot. Dynamat Extreme dampens the peak resonance of the panel in that test about 7.5db. ResoNix, with the same sized piece, dampens the peak by 17db. If you do the math, ResoNix is over 4x as effective, yet only 2x the weight.
> 
> How is it over 4x effective?


Every 3db is a doubling/halving of energy. The db scale is logarithmic


----------



## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

anybody compare sound skins to dynamat?


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

I would never touch soundskins- too many reports of it just melting.


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Someone needs to independently test resonix.


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

The testing on FB is independent


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Why fb?


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Ask Chris/
*TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL*

Why he's on FB now instead of DIYMA like before.


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Even his forum name is bias for testing. Lol


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

How does that make any sense lol


----------



## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

619Tundra said:


> Someone needs to independently test resonix.


That’s what happened on The Deadening FB group.


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

There's a lot of skeptics on here. I don't seem to recall a single person that has logged any complaints at all about using Resonix. Users seem to give pretty high praise for it so far. Lots of complaints about all the others. I think it's pretty cool that a young guy with a passion for car audio cared enough to start a company over it and told the manufacturer to make it better than all the others.


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Pssst.


----------



## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

Patriot83 said:


> There's a lot of skeptics on here. I don't seem to recall a single person that has logged any complaints at all about using Resonix. Users seem to give pretty high praise for it so far. Lots of complaints about all the others. I think it's pretty cool that a young guy with a passion for car audio cared enough to start a company over it and told the manufacturer to make it better than all the others.


fanboys will never see any mistake(s) thats why


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Hermes said:


> fanboys will never see any mistake(s) thats why


Look, you degenerate lying thief David Drake (aka Kountz). Either buy some Resonix or shut the hell up. Actually, don't buy any. I doubt Nick would sell you any anyway.


----------



## Hermes (Sep 14, 2021)

Patriot83 said:


> Look, you degenerate lying thief David Drake (aka Kountz). Either buy some Resonix or shut the hell up. Actually, don't buy any. I doubt Nick would sell you any anyway.


you forgot... aka degenerate, David Drake 04/12/1977 3345 holliglen dr, marietta ga 30062


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Hermes said:


> you forgot... aka degenerate, David Drake 04/12/1977 3345 holliglen dr, marietta ga 30062


Here you go again. I know where you live. And I know what you've stolen (a long time ago). Change your life. Stop lying about the Marines and the military. Pay Seafish back. And apologize to people you've lied about.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> Someone needs to independently test resonix.


chris already did lmao


Patriot83 said:


> Look, you degenerate lying thief David Drake (aka Kountz). Either buy some Resonix or shut the hell up. Actually, don't buy any. I doubt Nick would sell you any anyway.


Fvck no i will not be selling him a god damn thing. The only thing i'd sell him is an uber ride to his local mental hospital.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> Even his forum name is bias for testing. Lol


If it werent for your past few weeks of pretty strange behavior, i'd think you were fvcking with us. But something tells me something else is up..


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Not sure which Mod banned Hermes... but it wasn't me.

Oh well, he had a good run. Lasted 6 days this time!


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

I want to know what is the best material to buy. Seems like you and your fanboys get all spooked up. What is your problem me with discussing real test results other than your buddies on fb?


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Oh I see you're talking about hermes.


----------



## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> I want to know what is the best material to buy. Seems like you and your fanboys get all spooked up. What is your problem me with discussing real test results other than your buddies on fb?








Second Skin Audio: Soundproofing & Noise Control Solutions


Second Skin Audio was built with one goal in mind: provide the best car sound deadening materials in the world, without exception, and without compromise.




www.secondskinaudio.com





I forgot to mention why I choose this stuff out of everything. Great product and also comes with a solid infrastructure of customer service. You can call them and discuss what their various products do and best application practices.

Additionally, what I love most is this isn’t a one point person shop. It’s an actual large scale business that values each sale. You won’t get any of the drama or siloed testing data that comes from a FB enthusiast aka marketing group. There’s a reason why large companies like these folks or even Dynamat are around and have a massive cut of this market and why smaller brands are just that, small.


----------



## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

619Tundra said:


> Someone needs to independently test resonix.


That's not really the issue, we all know it is an excellent product, it comes down to cost vs benifits analysis for most people. For me, to import Ku Kollosus or resonix out side the us- regardless of quality- is not viable. Shipping is as much as the product. That can't be the "best" option


----------



## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

Turb0Yoda said:


> I would never touch soundskins- too many reports of it just melting.


This is concerning! I thought Soundskins was a reputable brand? I chose this brand after watching a YouTube video from Mark at Car Audio Fabrication.

Their website states that it's good to 150 degrees. Mine had a white paper backing. I know the product has been revised/improved since inception. Now I'm kinda worried....


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

And people ca


drober300 said:


> This is concerning! I thought Soundskins was a reputable brand? I chose this brand after watching a YouTube video from Mark at Car Audio Fabrication.
> 
> Their website states that it's good to 150 degrees. Mine had a white paper backing. I know the product has been revised/improved since inception. Now I'm kinda worried....


Both Skizer and Batdog garage (JIC808 I think is his handle here I might be flubbing it a little), amongst others, have videos of peeling it off super easily and melting. 

Whether they have had experience with the revision version or not- I've no idea.


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

drober300 said:


> This is concerning! I thought Soundskins was a reputable brand? I chose this brand after watching a YouTube video from Mark at Car Audio Fabrication.
> 
> Their website states that it's good to 150 degrees. Mine had a white paper backing. I know the product has been revised/improved since inception. Now I'm kinda worried....


Don't go by what one guy says about the product, research and find out.


----------



## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> Don't go by what one guy says about the product, research and find out.


I agree; however, there was a picture posted with the material that looked melted and oozing from what appeared to be the roof with headliner removed and I could see the Soundskin logo on the portion that was not removed, here is the link, post #13 Cheap door soundproofing

I believe the product has been revised/improved since then, Crutchfield sells it and there are only 5 star reviews (only 14 reviews but still) No negative reviews regarding product performance from Amazon. In addition, *I did find the company's YouTube video that states the product has has had improvements to formula and manufacturing process. *




I'm pretty confident that Soundskins Pro 2.0 will work as intended.


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

drober300 said:


> I agree; however, there was a picture posted with the material that looked melted and oozing from what appeared to be the roof with headliner removed and I could see the Soundskin logo on the portion that was not removed, here is the link, post #13 Cheap door soundproofing
> 
> I believe the product has been revised/improved since then, Crutchfield sells it and there are only 5 star reviews (only 14 reviews but still) No negative reviews regarding product performance from Amazon. In addition, *I did find the company's YouTube video that states the product has has had improvements to formula and manufacturing process. *
> 
> ...


Almost every shop uses this product.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I love the purposeful ignorance for the sake of sticking it to the man. 4x. Just keep that in mind when buying and applying it


----------



## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

buy once, cry once. Resonix directly developed for cars, by an installer and tuner. but, use something versus using nothing.


----------



## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

vactor said:


> buy once, cry once. Resonix directly developed for cars, by an installer and tuner. but, use something versus using nothing.


Unless it’s Peel n Seal…or Kilmat…then just use nothing. lol


----------



## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Turb0Yoda said:


> And people ca
> 
> Both Skizer and Batdog garage (*JIC808* I think is his handle here I might be flubbing it a little), amongst others, have videos of peeling it off super easily and melting.
> 
> Whether they have had experience with the revision version or not- I've no idea.


Thats me. There's a lot of Second Skin used in the desert SW. 

I have yet to see a 3-layer product hold up.

Nick's stuff seems nice, but having a certified lab test it and posting those results would seem to make sense vs the Facebook thing with Chris.


----------



## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

JI808 said:


> Thats me. There's a lot of Second Skin used in the desert SW.
> 
> I have yet to see a 3-layer product hold up.
> 
> Nick's stuff seems nice, but having a certified lab test it and posting those results would seem to make sense vs the Facebook thing with Chris.


Just for clarification: have you seen second skin melt/ peel off OR was it sound skin (or both)?


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

JimmyDee said:


> Not sure which Mod banned Hermes... but it wasn't me.
> 
> Oh well, he had a good run. Lasted 6 days this time!


Did he get banned for doxing himself? The timing seems right.


----------



## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Chris12 said:


> Just for clarification: have you seen second skin melt/ peel off OR was it sound skin (or both)?


Never seen Second Skin melt.

SoundSkins? Yes.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

UNBROKEN said:


> Unless it’s Peel n Seal…or Kilmat…then just use nothing. lol


I hear Flex Seal tape works well!


----------



## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

JI808 said:


> Never seen Second Skin melt.
> 
> SoundSkins? Yes.


Okay, thank you. How have you liked second skins cld products? I considered buying some of their “damplifier pro” but never pulled the trigger.

I have used Second Skin “Overkill” CCF though, and it’s great. Top notch customer service too.


----------



## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Chris12 said:


> Okay, thank you. How have you liked second skins cld products? I considered buying some of their “damplifier pro” but never pulled the trigger.
> 
> I have used Second Skin “Overkill” CCF though, and it’s great. Top notch customer service too.


Good stuff. All of the vehicles here (which are all full gut/build situations) get it.


----------



## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

Do y’all park your cars next to the sun? If in the very unlikely event Second Skin even remote starts to melt which it never will, send the company a pic they make it right. 

also to clarify second skin is not sound skins. Many posts about sounds skins being crappy which is fair. Second skin is not that but actually a great product.


----------



## itsZiz (Sep 1, 2021)

Based on the deadening FB group results, my plan went from cheap Noico, to also cheap NVX. At $100 for 40sqft, I don't see why I would want to pay 3x as much for marginal gains. But if you want the best of the best, it looks like Resonix is it.









Amazon.com: NVX® SDBP40 90 mil Thick 40 sqft. Car Sound Damping Mat, Butyl Automotive Sound Deadener, Audio Noise Vibration Insulation and Dampening (Ten 18” x 32” Sheets) : Automotive


Buy NVX® SDBP40 90 mil Thick 40 sqft. Car Sound Damping Mat, Butyl Automotive Sound Deadener, Audio Noise Vibration Insulation and Dampening (Ten 18” x 32” Sheets): Insulation - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

itsZiz said:


> Based on the deadening FB group results, my plan went from cheap Noico, to also cheap NVX. At $100 for 40sqft, I don't see why I would want to pay 3x as much for marginal gains. But if you want the best of the best, it looks like Resonix is it.
> 
> http://[URL][URL][URL][URL='https:/...ox_sc_saved_image_3?smid=A3QWSZ44N8P3XH&psc=1[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]


Reason being you can use less for the same result.
Let's say product A is $100/box and does okay. Now product B is $150/box and is 2 times as effective as product A.
You can use a full box of product A and get okay results. Or you can use 1/2 the amount of product B as you did with Product A to achieve the same results as product A. Since you are only using half a box of product B compared to A, you are saving money by only using $75 worth of product B instead of $100 on a full box of product A for the same results.
Difference here, is that we aren't talking 2x better. We are talking 4x better with resonix compared to many of the other leading products. Meaning that the amount used for the same results is cut dramatically, thus the total performance per dollar is higher with resonix over less expensive brands.
That being if you trust the testing that has been done, which I personally see no reason not to.


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

The main thing I would be weary of is the temperature resistance.. Knu tested well as far as dampening but ****e in temperature tests.. not a fun time to clean that stuff off once melted I'll tell you


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Turb0Yoda said:


> The main thing I would be weary of is the temperature resistance.. Knu tested well as far as dampening but ****e in temperature tests.. not a fun time to clean that stuff off once melted I'll tell you


It’s pretty easy to deal with when it gets on your nice pants…you toss them. Never ever will I skimp again though I didn’t think I was skimping many, many years ago when I bought Raamat. I live in TN and every summer it would leak out of my old car until I finally got rid of it.


----------



## itsZiz (Sep 1, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Reason being you can use less for the same result.
> Let's say product A is $100/box and does okay. Now product B is $150/box and is 2 times as effective as product A.
> You can use a full box of product A and get okay results. Or you can use 1/2 the amount of product B as you did with Product A to achieve the same results as product A. Since you are only using half a box of product B compared to A, you are saving money by only using $75 worth of product B instead of $100 on a full box of product A for the same results.
> Difference here, is that we aren't talking 2x better. We are talking 4x better with resonix compared to many of the other leading products. Meaning that the amount used for the same results is cut dramatically, thus the total performance per dollar is higher with resonix over less expensive brands.
> That being if you trust the testing that has been done, which I personally see no reason not to.


Yes, but there isn’t anything that has such a huge cost benefit ratio.

Resonix tested the best at about 50% better noise reduction than the NVX… at a 165% price increase. So in this perticular example, while you would need to use more of the nvx, it’s still only ~ $150 (50% increase) vs $265 for 40sqft.

Now if we’re talking about weight to spl that’s different, or install time, or making the most of limited space.


----------



## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

And we still don't know real temperature test numbers on resonix. I guess it is too costly to have a legitimate agency test it. But it is an expensive product.


----------



## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

For me, I think for the purposes of providing some sound deadening, minimizing vibrations and helping my speakers sound better, Soundskins 2.0 will do the job.

If this product melts and turns into a mess, I will not be the one cleaning it up, I will pursue the matter with Soundskins.

Below are statements on their website.

*"Why Choose SoundSkins?*
SoundSkins is the best roll on sound deadener material for cars. Our foolproof and easy to install damping mats allow you to soundproof your vehicle without the need for fancy equipment or professional installers!
Installing SoundSkins sound deadening results in reduced road noise level of up to 30%, prevention of lost sound, improved sound system performance, and vehicle insulation.
Our material is built to last. It will never never fall off once applied correctly, and it is both waterproof *and heat proof*, *designed to stand the test of time*."

*"What is covered by warranty?*
SoundSkins warrants that the purchased product is free from manufacturing defects *and will function as intended for the life of the product*. This includes the Pro, Pro Plus, Rings and Classic product range."


----------



## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Remember that NVX hasn't gone thru the temperature testing gamut- I would wait for those tests


----------



## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Remember that NVX hasn't gone thru the temperature testing gamut- I would wait for those tests


I cancelled my NVX order after your last post regarding this. Nothing worse than melting butyl


----------



## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

drober300 said:


> For me, I think for the purposes of providing some sound deadening, minimizing vibrations and helping my speakers sound better, Soundskins 2.0 will do the job.
> 
> If this product melts and turns into a mess, I will not be the one cleaning it up, I will pursue the matter with Soundskins.
> 
> ...


I personally don't know anything about SoundSkins 2.0 BUT - I know others have had issues with the original version melting. I understand that Soundskins has a warranty, but I'd bet that if it does fail, they'll just send you more product. I highly doubt they'll offer to clean your doors - unless you file (and win) a lawsuit...


----------



## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Remember that NVX hasn't gone thru the temperature testing gamut- I would wait for those tests


What is considered an acceptable temperature rating?


----------



## itsZiz (Sep 1, 2021)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Remember that NVX hasn't gone thru the temperature testing gamut- I would wait for those tests


 Besides website claims (which are as reliable as amazon reviews) do we have a place I can look to see heat testing? thx


----------



## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

drober300 said:


> If this product melts and turns into a mess, I will not be the one cleaning it up, I will pursue the matter with Soundskins.
> 
> Below are statements on their website.
> 
> ...



Firstly, I have no skin in the game (LOL), and Soundskins may well be an excellent product.

That said, I do need to point out that NOTHING in their warranty indicates that they will be responsible for anything other then replacing the material that failed...NOTHING about the cost or time labor of cleaning up the mess or even just installing the replacement material, which we all know is a crucial and (time) costly part of the process, even if you DIY.

Please do correct me if I missed something in their stated warranty !!!


----------



## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

seafish said:


> Firstly, I have no skin in the game (LOL), and Soundskins may well be an excellent product.
> 
> That said, I do need to point out that NOTHING in their warranty indicates that they will be responsible for anything other then replacing the material that failed...NOTHING about the cost or time labor of cleaning up the mess or even just installing the replacement material, which we all know is a crucial and (time) costly part of the process, even if you DIY.
> 
> Please do correct me if I missed something in their stated warranty !!!


The verbiage on their website speaks to the functionality of their product; however, consequential damages can be awarded and in this case it could be the cleanup and any parts that were damaged by the defective product (window regulators, speakers ect...). I'm 53 years old and throughout my years, I have had to resolve several matters by going to court, most were small claims and a couple I had to hire legal representation. I think everyone with some years under their belt has come across a situation that required legal action or the willingness to let it go. 

Aside from actually having a valid claim, the hardest part of winning a court case, is pursuing it. It takes lots of time and follow through, especially a small claims case. Win or lose, I have always prided myself on following through with legal action when I felt it was justified and it has always proved beneficial.

Having said all of that.... It's always best to avoid these situations if possible and this might be one I could avoid! 

I've already completed my drivers door, full coverage inside and out, I'm now wondering if I can remove the Soundskin from that door and start over with Dynamat Extreme. I would be out about $200 in material but if it did avoid a meltdown/gooey mess, it would be worth it. My vehicle is at the dealer but when I get it back, I will see how easy it is to pull off/remove what I've already installed.


----------



## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

Chris12 said:


> I cancelled my NVX order after your last post regarding this. Nothing worse than melting butyl


Second Skin

Op, probably just best to call them. They will literally answer all your questions and educate on the product itself. Also no skin in the game for me. I have now used a multitude of their products in two of my own cars and love the stuff. I've had nothing but great experiences.


----------



## Cisco473 (Mar 13, 2021)

Forgive me for being completely clueless and being a noob to deadening. When you guys are stating you can use less resonix vs x brand, what are you saying exactly? Is it multiple layers you’re avoiding? Are you placing in strategic areas only? I am doing my own install, slowly. Very slowly. Lol But I started dynamatting the trunk and did it all, well almost (I ran just short). Everything I could see and put hands on so I’m not sure how to “use less” and achieve better results. I have two boxes in the trunk and haven’t touched the trunk lid or any other part of the car. Please help guide me. Maybe this is overkill?










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

Cisco473 said:


> Forgive me for being completely clueless and being a noob to deadening. When you guys are stating you can use less resonix vs x brand, what are you saying exactly? Is it multiple layers you’re avoiding? Are you placing in strategic areas only? I am doing my own install, slowly. Very slowly. Lol But I started dynamatting the trunk and did it all, well almost (I ran just short). Everything I could see and put hands on so I’m not sure how to “use less” and achieve better results. I have two boxes in the trunk and haven’t touched the trunk lid or any other part of the car. Please help guide me. Maybe this is overkill?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job on on that trunk man! Outside of the discussion on this thread. Full coverage is full coverage. In my eyes, to do that trunk resonix or dynamat product would likely be the same. If you used 40% less product in that trunk, it would be 40% less coverage. As someone said above, you would be paying more for marginal improvements, just doesn't make sense.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JI808 said:


> Thats me. There's a lot of Second Skin used in the desert SW.
> 
> I have yet to see a 3-layer product hold up.
> 
> Nick's stuff seems nice, but having a certified lab test it and posting those results would seem to make sense vs the Facebook thing with Chris.


I could get that done. Problem is, as I stated before, standard composite loss factor tests don't fully translate to what we are doing as it is tested at 200hz on a piece of metal that has a much higher fs than a door, roof skin, etc.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Bass Face said:


> Do y’all park your cars next to the sun? If in the very unlikely event Second Skin even remote starts to melt which it never will, send the company a pic they make it right.


Theyre going to pay to have someone remove it and replace it?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Bass Face said:


> Good job on on that trunk man! Outside of the discussion on this thread. Full coverage is full coverage. In my eyes, to do that trunk resonix or dynamat product would likely be the same. If you used 40% less product in that trunk, it would be 40% less coverage. As someone said above, you would be paying more for marginal improvements, just doesn't make sense.



Wuhab, can I ask you a couple of honest questions?

1) How can you even say this? You have never once seen ResoNix, let alone actually used it. Don't you find that a bit unfair and misleading to comment on the performance of a product you have not only never used, but also has testing backing it that disprove the very thing you are saying? Silliness. You're not silly, are you?

2) it seems that ever since I gave you an estimate for your install and the price was outside of your budget, you seemed to start resenting me and are doing some act to bring down me and my business's. Did I upset you in some way in the discussions we had? Is it because I never called you to show up to your house on the day I said i might be free? Remember me offering to drive to YOU to help you out after you got a cheaper install done elsewhere? You remember me still answering the phone and offering help, don't you? I'm sorry that I never called that day. It ended up being too busy and life has been very busy since then. But is there something that happened between us that you now seem to take every opportunity to bring me and my offerings down at every chance you get? Why is this? What did I do to you? Did I say something? Are you that upset that I never called? I would really love an honest explanation here, because this is getting silly.


----------



## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> Theyre going to pay to have someone remove it and replace it?


Sigh Nick.....Sigh.....

They are confident in their product for various reasons. They have actual heat data correlated to their offerings, please see below link. As far as resonix all we have to go on for heat ratings is you saying you placed product in an oven for a few hours and "it was fine." So my question to you would be, if a resonix application failed would you scrape it off?

As far as your other post. Standby.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Bass Face said:


> Sigh Nick.....Sigh.....
> 
> They are confident in their product for various reasons. They have actual heat data correlated to their offerings, please see below link. As far as resonix all we have to go on for heat ratings is you saying you placed product in an oven for a few hours and "it was fine." So my question to you would be, if a resonix application failed would you scrape it off?
> 
> As far as your other post. Standby.


If 5 hours total in an oven starting at 250, moving up to 450, and eventually ending up on the "clean" setting for the last hour without the product failing and melting off isn't enough to satisfy you, then you are looking for unobtanium. Do this for me.. find me an independent lab to do this testing and I will do it 

PS.. ResoNix and dynamat are made by the same manufacturer. Since nothing I say seems to be worth anything to you, I won't bother mentioning that they sign off on its heat resistance.


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> PS.. ResoNix and dynamat are made by the same manufacturer. Since nothing I say seems to be worth anything to you, I won't bother mentioning that they sign off on its heat resistance.


Whoops, I guess they weren't counting on that response. Somehow, they will still argue it.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Patriot83 said:


> Whoops, I guess they weren't counting on that response. Somehow, they will still argue it.


Doesn't matter. If they don't like someone, they'll find a way to play the uno reverse card lol


----------



## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

So Resonix is rebadged Dynamat at a markup. Haw haw, just kidding! Dynamat is an established product, makes sense to have their manufacturer use their existing setup to create a new product to your (higher) specs.


----------



## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> Wuhab, can I ask you a couple of honest questions?
> 
> 1) How can you even say this? You have never once seen ResoNix, let alone actually used it. Don't you find that a bit unfair and misleading to comment on the performance of a product you have not only never used, but also has testing backing it that disprove the very thing you are saying? Silliness. You're not silly, are you?
> 
> 2) it seems that ever since I gave you an estimate for your install and the price was outside of your budget, you seemed to start resenting me and are doing some act to bring down me and my business's. Did I upset you in some way in the discussions we had? Is it because I never called you to show up to your house on the day I said i might be free? Remember me offering to drive to YOU to help you out after you got a cheaper install done elsewhere? You remember me still answering the phone and offering help, don't you? I'm sorry that I never called that day. It ended up being too busy and life has been very busy since then. But is there something that happened between us that you now seem to take every opportunity to bring me and my offerings down at every chance you get? Why is this? What did I do to you? Did I say something? Are you that upset that I never called? I would really love an honest explanation here, because this is getting silly.


Absolutely you can ask me any questions you desire man. However, not cool hijacking OPs thread. I do wish this could have stayed an on topic discussion with exchanges that only provide value to the larger community. 

1) Resonix is actually a pretty old story. I believe back in the day Don also had his own brand of material which you know about. All of my assumptions come from your website and your marketing. Your product performance and testing seems very one sided and geared to more of a marketing tactic. Resonix is a small shop who does their best to control media posts and provided targeted testing results. Additionally you go out of your way to put down other products nonstop regardless of what it is. You're publicly infamous for shooting down product you aren't selling at the time. So no, my approach isn't silly. I don't go out of my way to discredit you or your product. I have never and will not ever directly say you or your business is a dumpster fire. I completely understand small business and you are only as good as your reputation. If you take my factual findings as silly, then so be it. I do wish you and your future offerings from Apicella and Resonix the most success possible. 

2) I will 110% say here and live your estimate wasn't for me and boarded on meh. I am happy to pay for experience but I am educated enough to know when something has a sound value proposition or not. At $7900 for the "good" option out of better and best, I was proposed with two BLAM wide bands in the dash, two 8 inch mids in the doors, helix amp, and a brahama sub in a box. There are definitely people with more money or less money would be happy with that but not me. I also knew at that time I wouldn't really be happy with those proposed results. 

Resentment is a very strong word with a lot of work attached to it. I do not have the time nor effort to establish resentment to you or your business. If you feel personally targeted in any way, I will be more cautious to ensure I play around your tolerance of sensitivity. The last thing I want to do is give the wrong impression to such a prominent part of the audio community. 

You not calling or showing up as human being with faults is completely fine. As a business owner it's more of a reflection on you. During our discussions did you ever notice my responses to you. I always said, yea you are right Nick. You were right about going with a cheaper install, you are even right about the meaning of life. Really what I was gauging was your level of business acumen and maturity. Then and there I realized something, you are one of the types who need to and at all costs must be right. Business generally is a very people/audience focused and driven by individual connections. At this point I knew you weren't going to show up. When we did connect after that, you mentioned you were weeks out before looking at my car. I played the part you wanted me to play. You had established your dominance in our dialogue and after wanted no part of actually helping is the vibe I got. Hence I never called back. 

I say this over and over, anything I say here is from my personal experience. Your rebuttal will likely be do it once do it right here which is fair. But as a hobbyist you know better then ever, it doesn't stop at just once. I made threads about my issues here and work through them with the collective group and it was a priceless experience. I would do it over and over if it means I get to meet the people I have met through his forum. And now, current day not only have I spent less then $8k, but I have a system that can out gun your "good" proposal listed above in vicious fashion. And this isn't a reflection on you or your offering, its an avenue I chose to excersize by my own. 

In conclusion, absolutely not upset with you. I just had no idea me sharing my experiences on a public forum would allow for such sensitivity to be generated. I will say a few folks warned me of this and how you sometimes bring the personal into and otherwise public setting. You may see it as silly, but my contributions to this forum are for the betterment for the larger audience. 

I will also close with this. If after reading this you still need the feel to express your feelings and need an "honest explanation". Feel free to call, text, email, or even visit me in Sparta to air out any other grievances. But hijacking this thread is the real silly among all of this. The internet is forever. 

Best Regards to Apicella & Resonix
Wahab A.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

itsZiz said:


> Yes, but there isn’t anything that has such a huge cost benefit ratio.
> 
> Resonix tested the best at about 50% better noise reduction than the NVX… at a 165% price increase. So in this perticular example, while you would need to use more of the nvx, it’s still only ~ $150 (50% increase) vs $265 for 40sqft.
> 
> Now if we’re talking about weight to spl that’s different, or install time, or making the most of limited space.


No, it was a 5.5db difference in damping potential. The DB scale is logarithmic, not linear. So 6db is a 4x energy difference. Same idea with getting 6db more out of a speaker, you need 4x the power input to make it happen.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Bass Face said:


> Good job on on that trunk man! Outside of the discussion on this thread. Full coverage is full coverage. In my eyes, to do that trunk resonix or dynamat product would likely be the same. If you used 40% less product in that trunk, it would be 40% less coverage. As someone said above, you would be paying more for marginal improvements, just doesn't make sense.


Im actually confused with this. So if 100% is 100% coverage and it doesn't matter what product it is, why don't people use peal and seal anymore? Cause it's been proven that 100% coverage just isn't the same regardless of product.
If it was purely mass loading that you were doing, than yes that would be the case. But damping is very different than mass loading.
I can guarantee you that the difference between 100% coverage of both raam mat and resonix is very audible and quite evident.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

100% coverage isn't 100% coverage. 
I'm lost now but put it this way:

You can cover a piece of metal completely in styrofoam, and another in rubber. Think of this as product A and product B. Even though you have 100% coverage of both, product B will dampen a _lot_ better since it is made better.

Obviously styrofoam and rubber are completely different- the point I am trying to get across is that a better product will dampen more at the exact same ratio used with a cheaper product. And even then, the better product can dampen _the same amount_ for a smaller given amount of the worse product...

Hopefully that helps.. work has me completely dead as of late.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Turb0Yoda said:


> 100% coverage isn't 100% coverage.
> I'm lost now but put it this way:
> 
> You can cover a piece of metal completely in styrofoam, and another in rubber. Think of this as product A and product B. Even though you have 100% coverage of both, product B will dampen a _lot_ better since it is made better.
> ...


That's why I was confused about his comment.


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

Let me clarify my understanding. First clarification would be comparing like brands. For example, compare Dynamat vs Res vs Second Skin for the complete trunk application. I'm not sure what raam mat is that was referenced above. But if we compare like brands listed here, the variance of end results for complete coverage is marginal but the cost isn't. 

The concept or idea being promoted here is that you need less of the Res material to accomplish the same results you would with more of the competitor brand. In the case of the trunk, using 40% less material such as Res cannot produce the same results as full coverage of Dynamat. Unless proven otherwise, in the trunk application Dyamat or a like product is the value play over the Res. Can the Res stuff be better then Dynmat, absolutely why not. But ultimately that's up to the user. 

The key here is compare like materials. Comparing Styrofoam to rubber isn't a good example at least in my understanding.


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## Cisco473 (Mar 13, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Reason being you can use less for the same result.
> Let's say product A is $100/box and does okay. Now product B is $150/box and is 2 times as effective as product A.
> You can use a full box of product A and get okay results. Or you can use 1/2 the amount of product B as you did with Product A to achieve the same results as product A. Since you are only using half a box of product B compared to A, you are saving money by only using $75 worth of product B instead of $100 on a full box of product A for the same results.
> Difference here, is that we aren't talking 2x better. We are talking 4x better with resonix compared to many of the other leading products. Meaning that the amount used for the same results is cut dramatically, thus the total performance per dollar is higher with resonix over less expensive brands.
> That being if you trust the testing that has been done, which I personally see no reason not to.


So using resonix on 25% of my trunk will yield the same results as using dynamat at 100% coverage? I am not saying this is false, I’m trying to wrap my head around it. I don’t see the logic. For me, it seems that applying the same amount to the same areas may obviously yield different/better results but to say covering 25% vs 100% would yield the same results is a little puzzling for me. Again, I’m trying to get the science behind it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Think of it as a speaker and their sensitivity ratings. If dynamat has a "sensitivity" of 7.8db at 1 watt/1meter (im using its reduction in resonance from Chris's -15db testing), and ResoNix has a "sensitivity" of 17db 1 watt/1 meter, In order to make dynamat have the same "output" as ResoNix, it would need 8 watts to match the ResoNix 17db with 1 watt. Aka, it would need 8x the coverage of ResoNix on a theoretical panel to have the same reduction in resonance. Im not sure where people were coming up with 4x (maybe from second skins testing and mixed them up?), but ResoNix is 8x more effective than Dynamat Extreme. This brings me back to the weight part from earlier in the thread, Dynamat Extreme is 0.45 lbs per square foot. ResoNix is 1.0 lbs per square foot. If you used 10 lbs of Dynamat per door, you would only need about 2.5lbs worth of ResoNix to have the same end result in resonance reduction. We can also look at this as a price thing. ResoNix is $6.65 per square foot when purchased at 40 square feet. Dynamat Extreme, at 36 square feet on amazon is $6.80 per square foot. Yet in order to have the same amount of reduction in resonance, you would need to apply 8x more Dynamat Extreme. Aka, $54.40 to every $6.65 of ResoNix. Here I am, offering the best damping solution on the market for a price that is relatively insanely low, yet they still want to nit-pick and give me **** because they think I'm just trying to market to them and rip them off... LOL. I can price it this low because I don't have a massive warehouse to hold stock, I don't have to pay for a marketing team, I don't have to pay for reps, I don't have to pay for expensive custom boxes, I don't have to pay for ads, I don't have distributors and reps that need to mark it up in order to make their profit, and then dealers for them to mark it up again for them to make a profit. I don't have to mark it up to cover all of that. I'd make more money if I closed this account and focused on just using it myself on my own builds. But, here I am, offering it to you and trying to spread the word because why the hell wouldn't I. Now that I crunched the numbers, I think it's about time I raise the price, don't ya think? lol


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Bass Face said:


> The key here is compare like materials. Comparing Styrofoam to rubber isn't a good example at least in my understanding.


you're 100% right- like I said I'm just fried from work and somehow that's the only damn comparison I could think of.


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## Cisco473 (Mar 13, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> Think of it as a speaker and their sensitivity ratings. If dynamat has a "sensitivity" of 7.8db at 1 watt/1meter (im using its reduction in resonance from Chris's -15db testing), and ResoNix has a "sensitivity" of 17db 1 watt/1 meter, In order to make dynamat have the same "output" as ResoNix, it would need 8 watts to match the ResoNix 17db with 1 watt. Aka, it would need 8x the coverage of ResoNix on a theoretical panel to have the same reduction in resonance. Im not sure where people were coming up with 4x (maybe from second skins testing and mixed them up?), but ResoNix is 8x more effective than Dynamat Extreme. This brings me back to the weight part from earlier in the thread, Dynamat Extreme is 0.45 lbs per square foot. ResoNix is 1.0 lbs per square foot. If you used 10 lbs of Dynamat per door, you would only need about 2.5lbs worth of ResoNix to have the same end result in resonance reduction. We can also look at this as a price thing. ResoNix is $6.65 per square foot when purchased at 40 square feet. Dynamat Extreme, at 36 square feet on amazon is $6.80 per square foot. Yet in order to have the same amount of reduction in resonance, you would need to apply 8x more Dynamat Extreme. Aka, $54.40 to every $6.65 of ResoNix. Here I am, offering the best damping solution on the market for a price that is relatively insanely low, yet they still want to nit-pick and give me **** because they think I'm just trying to market to them and rip them off... LOL. I can price it this low because I don't have a massive warehouse to hold stock, I don't have to pay for a marketing team, I don't have to pay for reps, I don't have to pay for expensive custom boxes, I don't have to pay for ads, I don't have distributors and reps that need to mark it up in order to make their profit, and then dealers for them to mark it up again for them to make a profit. I don't have to mark it up to cover all of that. I'd make more money if I closed this account and focused on just using it myself on my own builds. But, here I am, offering it to you and trying to spread the word because why the hell wouldn't I. Now that I crunched the numbers, I think it's about time I raise the price, don't ya think? lol


So covering 1/8” of my trunk with resonix will dampen as good as 100% coverage with dynamat? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Cisco473 said:


> So using resonix on 25% of my trunk will yield the same results as using dynamat at 100% coverage? I am not saying this is false, I’m trying to wrap my head around it. I don’t see the logic. For me, it seems that applying the same amount to the same areas may obviously yield different/better results but to say covering 25% vs 100% would yield the same results is a little puzzling for me. Again, I’m trying to get the science behind it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unfortunately I don't believe it works quite that way either. Just because of the way that a vibration dampener works. It is dissipating energy from the vibrating panel by the panel wanting to vibrate and the butyl resisting the vibration. If you were using just butyl, it would stretch along with the vibrating panel, but since it has an aluminum (or really any stiff material) backing, you have one side of the butyl trying to stretch because of the energy in the door panel and the other side of the butyl sheet not wanting to stretch because it is attached to a non flexing piece. So the butyl is trying to shear against itself and eating up energy in the process. So if your backing sheet is interrupted in any way (cut, or wrinkled as the deadening testing showed) the effectiveness goes down as the backer now has a place that it can move. So there is a bit more than just x amount will do better than x amount. There are other things involved.



Bass Face said:


> In the case of the trunk, using 40% less material such as Res cannot produce the same results as full coverage of Dynamat.


See above. Better butyl compounds for an application, varying thicknesses of butyl, and varying thickness of the aluminum backer are what make it happen.
Also, effectiveness of damping isn't the same the entire way across a panel. You are trying to eat up a standing wave vibration in a panel, and standing waves have the most concentrated energy in the middle of a panel. Think like a guitar string plucked hard. Most of the movement is in the center with the fundimental, then you have your harmonics that move at a lesser energy along nodes. That's why you put your first piece in the center of whatever you are damping. Effectiveness diminishes as you approach the edge of the panel. So a product that is more effective in just the middle of a panel will do better than a lesser product all the way across a panel.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Cisco473 said:


> So covering 1/8” of my trunk with resonix will dampen as good as 100% coverage with dynamat?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In theory, yes. In real world when applying to a car where the metal panels are much more complex, that is nearly impossible to predict. But on a flat panel, apples to apples, there is a 8x difference between the two. Even if we play devils advocate and say only 4x the difference, that is still insanely drastic.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Even if we play devils advocate and say only 4x the difference


We were talking about the numbers from the NVX testing before. That's where the 4x came from.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> We were talking about the numbers from the NVX testing before. That's where the 4x came from.


ahh, yes. oops


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## Cisco473 (Mar 13, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> In theory, yes. In real world when applying to a car where the metal panels are much more complex, that is nearly impossible to predict. But on a flat panel, apples to apples, there is a 8x difference between the two. Even if we play devils advocate and say only 4x the difference, that is still insanely drastic.


Thank you. For this build I’m going to finish off with dynamat. For my next build I’ll be trying your stuff. And it’s going to be a f**** suv so wish me luck. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Cisco473 said:


> Thank you. For this build I’m going to finish off with dynamat. For my next build I’ll be trying your stuff. And it’s going to be a f**** suv so wish me luck. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Best of luck. Deadening ain't fun lol


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Thanks Nick for disclosing your product is made by a solid company. I will get ahold of a piece to test both products. Go to sleep and relax.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Dynamat extreme 36sqft is currently $168.46 SHIPPED on Amazon (I’ve seen it as cheap as $149)








Amazon.com: Dynamat 10455 18" x 32" x 0.067" Thick Self-Adhesive Sound Deadener with Xtreme Bulk Pack, (9 Sheets) , Black : Everything Else


Amazon.com: Dynamat 10455 18" x 32" x 0.067" Thick Self-Adhesive Sound Deadener with Xtreme Bulk Pack, (9 Sheets) , Black : Everything Else



www.amazon.com




$168.46 / 36 sqft = $4.68 per sqft SHIPPED


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

619Tundra said:


> Thanks Nick for disclosing your product is made by a solid company. I will get ahold of a piece to test both products. Go to sleep and relax.


I have said it here multiple times... also, i want to make sure that what i said isn't misinterpreted. Its not made by dynamat. Its made by the same company that makes dynamat. As of right now, there is not a single car audio company that actually makes their own CLD, regardless of what they tell you. Butyl manufacturing and rolling is absurdly large scale and expensive.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Chris12 said:


> Dynamat extreme 36sqft is currently $168.46 SHIPPED on Amazon (I’ve seen it as cheap as $149)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so per unit of performance, is still $37.44 per Resonix $6.65...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey look, chris just posted more results. 



https://www.facebook.com/groups/651457188787366/posts/866387607294322/




If you have REW, you can open the files here.. 





__





Deadening Files-Initial Tests - Google Drive







drive.google.com


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Think of it as a speaker and their sensitivity ratings. If dynamat has a "sensitivity" of 7.8db at 1 watt/1meter (im using its reduction in resonance from Chris's -15db testing), and ResoNix has a "sensitivity" of 17db 1 watt/1 meter, In order to make dynamat have the same "output" as ResoNix, it would need 8 watts to match the ResoNix 17db with 1 watt. Aka, it would need 8x the coverage of ResoNix on a theoretical panel to have the same reduction in resonance. Im not sure where people were coming up with 4x (maybe from second skins testing and mixed them up?), but ResoNix is 8x more effective than Dynamat Extreme. This brings me back to the weight part from earlier in the thread, Dynamat Extreme is 0.45 lbs per square foot. ResoNix is 1.0 lbs per square foot. If you used 10 lbs of Dynamat per door, you would only need about 2.5lbs worth of ResoNix to have the same end result in resonance reduction. We can also look at this as a price thing. ResoNix is $6.65 per square foot when purchased at 40 square feet. Dynamat Extreme, at 36 square feet on amazon is $6.80 per square foot. Yet in order to have the same amount of reduction in resonance, you would need to apply 8x more Dynamat Extreme. Aka, $54.40 to every $6.65 of ResoNix. Here I am, offering the best damping solution on the market for a price that is relatively insanely low, yet they still want to nit-pick and give me **** because they think I'm just trying to market to them and rip them off... LOL. I can price it this low because I don't have a massive warehouse to hold stock, I don't have to pay for a marketing team, I don't have to pay for reps, I don't have to pay for expensive custom boxes, I don't have to pay for ads, I don't have distributors and reps that need to mark it up in order to make their profit, and then dealers for them to mark it up again for them to make a profit. I don't have to mark it up to cover all of that. I'd make more money if I closed this account and focused on just using it myself on my own builds. But, here I am, offering it to you and trying to spread the word because why the hell wouldn't I. Now that I crunched the numbers, I think it's about time I raise the price, don't ya think? lol


Just curious - has anyone done that exercise for sh*ts and giggles to see if the theoretical analysis of 1 versus 8 times if it indeed doubles the effectiveness everytime you add a layer 

What I am getting at - is if 1 layer gives you 1db reduction does 2 give 2db and so 8 layers gives 8dbs 

Or could 2 give you 3dbs and 8 give you 15dbs so it’s not a constant equal curve if you know what I mean…

For a science perspective - if your product is 2mm thick and other product is 1mm - it sounds unrealistic that 8mm thick product is equivalent to a 2mm thick product - especially when essentially they extremely similar or identical in composition. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> Just curious - has anyone done that exercise for sh*ts and giggles to see if the theoretical analysis of 1 versus 8 times if it indeed doubles the effectiveness everytime you add a layer
> 
> What I am getting at - is if 1 layer gives you 1db reduction does 2 give 2db and so 8 layers gives 8dbs
> 
> ...


Chris did do testing of layers. long story short, 2 layers is hardly more effective than 1. Im talking like a 10% increase if that. It just adds more weight, which is not the main way CLD works. When I say 1 vs 8, i don't mean layers. I mean area covered.


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## Cisco473 (Mar 13, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> Best of luck. Deadening ain't fun lol


You’re got damn right it wasn’t fun doing that. Lots of work but glad I’m doing it myself. My 14 yr old son is learning. He’s ran his own wires already. Connected his aftermarket radio himself. But damn it is a lot of work that my body didn’t like twisting into lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Chris did do testing of layers. long story short, 2 layers is hardly more effective than 1. Im talking like a 10% increase if that. It just adds more weight, which is not the main way CLD works. When I say 1 vs 8, i don't mean layers. I mean area covered.


Oh ok coverage… so 1 inch squared is about the same as 8 inch squared? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> so per unit of performance, is still $37.44 per Resonix $6.65...



Just to be fair, you’re comparing the shipped price of Dynamat to the price of resonix without shipping included.

Also, when we start extrapolating numbers the results are very easy to skew (Wall Street has an absolute field day with this in financial reporting).



If the “Everyman” buys a cheaper, but solidly performing product, (similar to Dynamat) and it allows them to achieve 25% coverage on more of the important panels in the vehicle, that person may be better off with more of the cheaper product (vs. the premium product on less panels.)

As Cisco found out above, it’s easy to plow through CLD - especially for those of us (like myself) with lesser experience. If you’re not VERY strategic with a premium CLD, I’m sure you’d have no problem spending $1k-$1,500 in CLD alone to complete your average sedan. It takes practice to achieve 25% coverage in the right areas. I can certainly attest to this as I’m sure I have 100sqft+ of CLD in my current vehicle and I haven’t touched the roof, rear doors, or floor of the interior (except the trunk.)

_(*Edit - basically what I’m trying to convey in the paragraph above is that it’s easy to get carried away with CLD. Anyone that’s tried to track down a rattle should know what I’m saying here  )_


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Chris12 said:


> It takes practice to achieve 25% coverage in the right areas.


Sorry...NOT really that hard to understand or practice....depsite all the difficult math going around 🤣 ,

CLD treatment is NOT rocket science!!!

1) Simply start at the center of the largest and flattest unreinforced panel and use the single largest piece of CLD that you can afford and place it the CENTER of said panel to achieve a MINIMUM of 25% panel coverage.

2) From there simply move on out from the center of that panel to achive greater coverage according to your own budget preferences.

3) Find the next largest and flattest unreinforced panel to treat starting at its center again.

4) Rinse and repeat according to your budget preferences.

FYI-- in most vehicles, though obviously not all of them, the largest and flattest unreinforced panels are the ceiling and doors and trunk lid.

FYI #2 -- ANY "enhancements" or effectiveness in actual product performance of panel dampening will simply decrease the amount of material that you will need to buy to achieve your goals. That said, if your goal is to experience the ever elusive "SQ" then you will likely WANT (though n ot necessarily NEED) to continue spending your money in quest of said goal.

FYI #3 -- All "instructions" above assume that you knowhow to properly prep and clean said areas before applying the CLD...but again, it's not rocket science ... just elbow grease !!

My .02


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Chris12 said:


> Just to be fair, you’re comparing the shipped price of Dynamat to the price of resonix without shipping included.
> 
> When we start extrapolating numbers the results are very easy to skew (Wall Street has an absolute field day with this in financial reporting).
> 
> ...


Sorry. $7 vs $34
Seafish answered the rest


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

To Clark and Nick, thanks for the replies, and fair enough.

My main issue is with extrapolating the testing results to reach the conclusion that “resonix is 8x more effective than Dynamat” and attaching dollar figures to that assumption.

“Resonix is 8x more effective than Dynamat”could be assumed to mean that 20 Sqft of Dynamat will reduce NVH (or whatever you’d like to call it) equal to 2.5 sqft of resonix. This scenario (with 25% coverage) hasn’t been tested, but can’t be assumed.

*I would bet that 20 sqft of Dynamat would outperform 2.5 sqft of resonix with 25% coverage, but only unbiased, independent testing could confirm or deny.*

In summary, there are unexpected issues when testing results are extrapolated.

(Disclaimer: I’m just expressing my thoughts. I have no stake in either product)


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> Think of it as a speaker and their sensitivity ratings. If dynamat has a "sensitivity" of 7.8db at 1 watt/1meter (im using its reduction in resonance from Chris's -15db testing), and ResoNix has a "sensitivity" of 17db 1 watt/1 meter, In order to make dynamat have the same "output" as ResoNix, it would need 8 watts to match the ResoNix 17db with 1 watt. Aka, it would need 8x the coverage of ResoNix on a theoretical panel to have the same reduction in resonance. Im not sure where people were coming up with 4x (maybe from second skins testing and mixed them up?), but ResoNix is 8x more effective than Dynamat Extreme. This brings me back to the weight part from earlier in the thread, Dynamat Extreme is 0.45 lbs per square foot. ResoNix is 1.0 lbs per square foot. If you used 10 lbs of Dynamat per door, you would only need about 2.5lbs worth of ResoNix to have the same end result in resonance reduction. We can also look at this as a price thing. ResoNix is $6.65 per square foot when purchased at 40 square feet. Dynamat Extreme, at 36 square feet on amazon is $6.80 per square foot. Yet in order to have the same amount of reduction in resonance, you would need to apply 8x more Dynamat Extreme. Aka, $54.40 to every $6.65 of ResoNix. Here I am, offering the best damping solution on the market for a price that is relatively insanely low, yet they still want to nit-pick and give me **** because they think I'm just trying to market to them and rip them off... LOL. I can price it this low because I don't have a massive warehouse to hold stock, I don't have to pay for a marketing team, I don't have to pay for reps, I don't have to pay for expensive custom boxes, I don't have to pay for ads, I don't have distributors and reps that need to mark it up in order to make their profit, and then dealers for them to mark it up again for them to make a profit. I don't have to mark it up to cover all of that. I'd make more money if I closed this account and focused on just using it myself on my own builds. But, here I am, offering it to you and trying to spread the word because why the hell wouldn't I. Now that I crunched the numbers, I think it's about time I raise the price, don't ya think? lol


Holy word brick Batman! This was like untangling a box of 5000 Christmas lights in the attic. As one business owner to another, you should definitely raise your prices. If you whole heartedly believe your statements and the targeted testing results, I would say raise the the price 8x. It only makes logical sense at this point. There are no favors for strangers and no glory in being a martyr. Raise that price, make that cash homie.


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

Chris12 said:


> To Clark and Nick, thanks for the replies, and fair enough.
> 
> As I develop my thoughts and take issue with extrapolating the testing results to reach the conclusion that “resonix is 8x more effective than Dynamat” and attaching dollar figures to that assumption:
> 
> ...


Same. I also find it strange or maybe it's just coincidence that the new "testing results" just hit yesterday among all these highly informative discussions. I can also appreciate your Wall Street reference. Numbers are easily skewed to tell the story one wants to tell. 

I truly hope the larger audience gained something from this conversation as it was highly enlightening for a plethora of reasons.


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## MattAFLiving (Aug 27, 2021)

Im new to all of this SQ stuff, and haven't even begun my build(still gathering up all my components). I purchased my sound treatment before finding this forum. I have enough Noico butyl, CCF, and MLV for my entire car. So I'm obviously not in the market for sound deadening, but would be willing to do some testing a try. I love doing that kind of stuff. If any one has some input on how they believe the testing should go on an actual vehicle, let me know.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

MattAFLiving said:


> Im new to all of this SQ stuff, and haven't even begun my build(still gathering up all my components). I purchased my sound treatment before finding this forum. I have enough Noico butyl, CCF, and MLV for my entire car. So I'm obviously not in the market for sound deadening, but would be willing to do some testing a try. I love doing that kind of stuff. If any one has some input on how they believe the testing should go on an actual vehicle, let me know.


My advice would be to return the Noico CLD and buy something that actually works.


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## MattAFLiving (Aug 27, 2021)

UNBROKEN said:


> My advice would be to return the Noico CLD and buy something that actually works.


That wasn’t really answering any questions I had, wasn’t looking for advise on what I’ve already purchased. According to what some believe may be biased, the noico does actually work. Maybe not to the extent of the others, but it does work.








My question was if people wanted to find out how effective the Resonix works based on the stated performance vs brandX. Maybe trying the 25% coverage inside of door panels. Seeing how I haven’t touched any of my panels yet, it would be the perfect time to test some products out for effectiveness. Also another opportunity to give real world results.


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

MattAFLiving said:


> That wasn’t really answering any questions I had, wasn’t looking for advise on what I’ve already purchased. According to what some believe may be biased, the noico does actually work. Maybe not to the extent of the others, but it does work.
> View attachment 311870
> 
> My question was if people wanted to find out how effective the Resonix works based on the stated performance vs brandX. Maybe trying the 25% coverage inside of door panels. Seeing how I haven’t touched any of my panels yet, it would be the perfect time to test some products out for effectiveness. Also another opportunity to give real world results.


Maybe look to purchase some Resonix from Nick. Not only to help a local small business but to test as well. I have a friend in Louisina who went complete Noico for his pickup. Had nothing but good things to say and at that price it's a great value. As far as now no melting for the product has been reported.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

MattAFLiving said:


> That wasn’t really answering any questions I had, wasn’t looking for advise on what I’ve already purchased. According to what some believe may be biased, the noico does actually work. Maybe not to the extent of the others, but it does work.
> ...


Yeah the other problem with noico is it falls flat in any sort of thermal testing and will melt quickly.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

While it doesnt melt and drip, it loosens up and gets nasty. Had it in my last car.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

While we're on the topic, are there any questions or topics that you think this guide doesn't cover or leaves questions unanswered?






Reference Information & Guide – ResoNix Sound Solutions







resonixsoundsolutions.com


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## Wainscott Jedi007 (May 17, 2021)

Bass Face said:


> Maybe look to purchase some Resonix from Nick. Not only to help a local small business but to test as well. I have a friend in Louisina who went complete Noico for his pickup. Had nothing but good things to say and at that price it's a great value. As far as now no melting for the product has been reported.


I love that stuff. For the price and what you get it is worth it compared to dynamat. My first build with it was a elanta gt and was shocked how well it worked. now my new build a 2011 Azera limited. going to apply that and also try there foam as well 360 mill I believe off the top of my head there are some great reviews on the stuff. but when it comes sound proofing for the masses price will always dictate to a point on a used car. hell there are so many choices now its truly crazy. from ebay to amazon and install/audio shops. everyone uses something different based on cost,profance, to profit. resonix sounds very promising i must say. but priced out of my league for a used car at this point. but with more testing and reviews.

just my thoughts. by no means am i am expert on anything. I am just the village idiot cheers


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Wainscott Jedi007 said:


> I love that stuff. For the price and what you get it is worth it compared to dynamat. My first build with it was a elanta gt and was shocked how well it worked. now my new build a 2011 Azera limited. going to apply that and also try there foam as well 360 mill I believe off the top of my head there are some great reviews on the stuff. but when it comes sound proofing for the masses price will always dictate to a point on a used car. hell there are so many choices now its truly crazy. from ebay to amazon and install/audio shops. everyone uses something different based on cost,profance, to profit. resonix sounds very promising i must say. but priced out of my league for a used car at this point. but with more testing and reviews.
> 
> just my thoughts. by no means am i am expert on anything. I am just the village idiot cheers


Something is absolutely better than nothing!
Would suggest giving it a try at some point though The difference between resonix and other brands is stark. Your doors will be able to take much more power before giving up the ghost and rattling to death.


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## Wainscott Jedi007 (May 17, 2021)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Yeah the other problem with noico is it falls flat in any sort of thermal testing and will melt quickly.





Picassotheimpaler said:


> Something is absolutely better than nothing!
> Would suggest giving it a try at some point though The difference between resonix and other brands is stark. Your doors will be able to take much more power before giving up the ghost and rattling to death.


totally agree brother. in my mind talking with different peeps it all comes down to cost for the most part now if you are going to have a **** ton of money in your system then you will want the best. one i am building now equipment wise is about 4 to 5 k and no wwhen i get my new truck probably gonna be using the resonix


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Weird how sound deadening topics get turned into an echo chamber for a specific product.


Also weird how everyone acts like the only important part of sound treatment is CLD.

I've treated the Stereo Integrity Audi with Second Skin products and the results creep people out when they're in the car.

Here's the door video. I showed in that video how you can hear a difference in ringing of the panel with SDS tiles vs 100% coverage with Damplifier Pro. Even with 100% coverage I could identify areas on the door skin where I physically couldn't apply CLD. I used another material in those areas and achieved what people say doesn't work.

No matter what product I applied to that door, the results would've been the same. I'd still be able to ID untreated areas of the door.






And here's a video that goes over all of the changes in the car. The mic pics up the massive difference between talking outside of the car vs inside. It's like an anechoic chamber inside. People are actually freaked out by how quiet it is. They hear their tinnitus, their heartbeat. Even with no sub in the car and a massive hole in the floor, it's crazy quiet inside.






This one shows just how quiet it is - even with the hatch open - when playing with the door closed vs the door open.






There's much more to sound treatment than just CLD/deadening. Not sure why people seem to get hung up on the CLD aspect of what is a much larger process.


And for whatever reason, it always turns into a fuggin' brand battle, but fact is that Second Skin has the single best product line out there.


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

JI808 said:


> Weird how sound deadening topics get turned into an echo chamber for a specific product.
> 
> 
> Also weird how everyone acts like the only important part of sound treatment is CLD.
> ...


Second Skin is phenomenal, as I am have used a bunch of it and love it. You seem to be pretty unbiased and logical. Do you know if they make their products in house? They are made in USA which leads me to believe they are in house. 

A prominent member here claimed no brand rolls their stuff in house. Just curious.


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Bass Face said:


> Second Skin is phenomenal, as I am have used a bunch of it and love it. You seem to be pretty unbiased and logical. Do you know if they make their products in house? They are made in USA which leads me to believe they are in house.
> 
> A prominent member here claimed no brand rolls their stuff in house. Just curious.


I screwed up that post you quoted. Posted the same video twice. Fixed it. Should be three different videos now.

I *DO *know that they've been contacted by another CLD manufacturer and have been asked to make stuff for that other company. Weird.

I also know that a different CLD company has ordered their product. If I had to guess I'd say that was for testing/research.

It's funny that there's so much talk about only CLD and not the bigger process as a whole.

I don't know about "in house", but it's American made. You can look at the product pages on the website and see that.

The exception I do know of is their Mega Zorbe and Mega Zorbe Pro melamine foam. It's made in Germany and gets the hydrophobic treatment here in the US.

I've also seen prominent members make statements that are false, only to be presented with facts that they ignore and would rather believe whatever alternate story/reality they're looking for in an attempt to disparage another company.

Three topics sure to start an argument? Religion, politics, and CLD. 😂


What's funny is that I was at a shop two days ago getting them set up to do higher end work than what they're doing currently. Tools, product, equipment, and so on.

I was on the phone with a rep placing an order for product and while doing so someone else at the shop was filling out account info to get the shop set up as a Second Skin dealer. I went in to make changes at the shop and that day was particularly busy making sure dealer accounts were not only set up, but submitted/received before placing orders.

Anyway, the other person asked me for some info on the dealer form and I gave it to them.

I apologized to the rep on the phone for the distraction and all of a sudden the discussion turned to why we're using Second Skin vs Brand X.

Told him because I have experience with Brand X. Installed a bunch of it in a GTR when Brand X hit the market and Brand X melted. Told him "You can imagine how that went"

Anyway, he gave me what was essentially a Brand X sales pitch. Told him Second Skin has the single best product line on the market so that's what we're using.

I received a call from Brand X a short time later. As a matter of fact I received *THREE* calls from Brand X. One of them was the owner. He also gave the pitch and I had the same conversation with him about melting product and overall product line-up. He's sending free product in an attempt to get us to jump ship.

Not happening.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

dgage said:


> It’s pretty easy to deal with when it gets on your nice pants…you toss them. Never ever will I skimp again though I didn’t think I was skimping many, many years ago when I bought Raamat. I live in TN and every summer it would leak out of my old car until I finally got rid of it.


dgage and I live about two hours away. I've had Resonix installed since Skizer started shipping and I have no failures.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

nyquistrate said:


> dgage and I live about two hours away. I've had Resonix installed since Skizer started shipping and I have no failures.


I think our biggest customer install testament (that I'm aware of) to the heat resistance of ResoNix is of a member of this form. He purchased the product when I first opened preorders and got it in the first batch of shipments I ever did. How did he use it? On the exhaust shield of his side by side. To make it even better.. he's located in Phoenix Arizona. 

He messages me occasionally and let's me know that it's still staying put without any sign of giving up. He also recently sent me some other brands products in his vehicle melting though..


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## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

Well to some extent I will serve as a test case for the Soundshield 2.0 to see if the product is susceptible to melting. I live in a northern state, Michigan; however, it does reach 90+ consecutive days and my vehicle is black. The soundskin that I left on my car is on the inner door skin of driver’s door.

My drivers doors was fully covered with Soundskin and I had started the inside portion of the passenger door. After reading the debate on Soundskin melting and seeing a photo of one particular case, I decided to remove the Soundskin from my vehicle and replace it with Dynamat Extreme.

I pulled the few pieces of Soundskin off the inner door panel on passenger side that I started, what an absolute nightmare that was! After forming a blister on my finger and scraping the crap out of my hands from reaching inside the door panel _(should've wore gloves but didn't) _I started over with Dynamat Extreme.

When it came to the driver’s door that was fully covered, I could only muster up the strength and endurance to remove everything off the outside of the door skin and the door trim panel; therefore, I still have Soundskin located on the inside of my driver’s door so that will be the test case.

For the record, I liked working with/installing the Dynamat Extreme way better.

Full Soundskin Door










Soundskin Door Panel










Removed all but inner portion of Soundskin










Passenger door with complete Dynamat Extreme


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## ophidia311 (May 3, 2021)

JI808 said:


> Weird how sound deadening topics get turned into an echo chamber for a specific product.


I had no idea you were batdoggarage. Love your videos. Theyre very informative. Watched the sound treatment ones multiple times and never knew about rockwool until watching the ones you used it in for the doors/floor braces.


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## jheat2500 (Mar 1, 2021)

I have a feeling the melting issues for any brand may be cases of bad batches of product or faulty installation prep as apposed to an inherently poor product. I have Raammat installed on the roof of a desert truck that has sat uncovered for its entire life in southern California. It sees outdoor temps over 90 degrees regularly and over 100 several times a year. The windows are shut and it hasn't been driven in a couple years and I've had zero issues with melting. It's been installed for nearly 15 years now, so if it was going to fail, it most certainly would by now.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

i have only used Dmat extreme. I dont know if it was the best then or now, but was super consistent. When I purchased, the shop I purchased from told me they have never ever had an issue with it. They could not say this with other products they brought it. They also cut me a good deal. They sold me a box of all the scraps left from previous installs. It was enough to do the front doors and held up until I sold the car so 6/7 years later.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Would anyone here like to chime in on my post here? It's about deadening my roof - mostly whether I should try to remove the rudimentary factory CLD in place or Resonix over it. I removed the easy stuff, but the "CLD" is stuck on hard.

Roof deadening questions


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## Paul S. (Sep 12, 2021)

sorry, I should start a thread. Dont want to hijack this


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## drober300 (Jul 15, 2021)

Paul S. said:


> I'm learning, I done my 1st install and slapped the speakers into the doors and finding it's not the sound I want to end up with, lol. I then I started to add the nvx baffles but found out after a couple of doors that my speakers are out of phase and needing to fix that. This means I took apart a couple of doors twice and will take those apart for the 3rd time. CRAZY.
> Now I have a feeling some type of door deadning should have been done the 1st time around when I replaced the speakers. I thought just changing the spearker would be satisficial for my ears but it wasn't. My neighbors must be thinking I'm nuts, OCD or something.
> 
> If something or partial application is better than noth'n? Can I get away just covering up the big hole with sound deadner? this looks like a big job. I assume its easier to work with smaller squares vs. long strips?
> ...


Having just finished all four doors in my jeep, I would say using smaller pieces was much easier than squeezing large pieces through the door openings and trying to manipulate them during the install. I started off using as large of pieces I could, then decided to start using smaller pieces.

I think it's easier to get the smaller pieces to mold and adhere than using very big pieces.

It's definitely better to do some sound deadening than none! I would install some Dynamat Extreme around the speaker opening on the door along with some right behind the speaker opening on the inner door skin. From there, just installing some 6" x 6" square pieces in a few areas on the inner door skin will make a big difference on vibrations and resonance.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

hella356 said:


> Would anyone here like to chime in on my post here? It's about deadening my roof - mostly whether I should try to remove the rudimentary factory CLD in place or Resonix over it. I removed the easy stuff, but the "CLD" is stuck on hard.
> 
> Roof deadening questions


id say dont fight it, just go around it ,cant believe this post got ****ed like it did, but than again,im not surprised, let us know how it all works out for you,


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## Paul S. (Sep 12, 2021)

drober300, thank you. Sounds simple enough when I take the door panel off.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Lou Frasier2 said:


> id say dont fight it, just go around it ,cant believe this post got ****ed like it did, but than again,im not surprised, let us know how it all works out for you,


Thanks. I went over the top of it. Should be all good.


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## ezmason (Nov 6, 2019)

Geez i hope mine doesn't get crappy. I have roadkill extreme inside & out with soundskin layer second layer on outside of inside the door


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## ezmason (Nov 6, 2019)

Inside the same but with secondskins over top


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## mistaleung (Aug 1, 2016)

Can someone recommend a Velcro tape for MLV installation?
I bought a box of Reonsix Barrier for the door application, however their Velcro tape is out of stock.


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