# Amp Mounting Ideas!



## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

So ive had my box built and installed in my truck for probably 6-8 months, but never got around to finishing it. gonna use roll on bedliner to cover it, and then i need to figure out where to mount my amp. right now the amp just sits on the floor. eeek...

amp is 08 Kicker zx700.5 so its a decent size


the box is installed in a 2003 Ford ranger. goes across the back wall. i want to mount the amp on top at a angle, but dont know how to secure it. it doesnt fit flat, but at a angle towards the window it fits nicely, and looks nice, but how could i mount it? or it will fit on front, but isnt it bad to screw amps to the box? 

any ideas would be appreciated.

THANKS


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## area51 (Sep 27, 2009)

You could make an angled amp rack out of mdf and glue to the top of the box. You'd be surprised how strong wood glue is.


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## leorbolato (Apr 26, 2009)

I don´t like put the amp in the sub box. It shakes a lot, and it may cause future problems


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

If the box is made well, it shouldn't shake much. At least not compared to the rest of the car.

Or, put another way, if the box is made well, EVERYTHING in the car should shake.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

i went to a local metal fabrication place i found in the yellowpages and had some metal bent up to the angles i wanted for a floating amp rack. i made a template with a coat hanger and took it to them, they cut and bent the pieces i needed and welded them together. i also had them trim down the tips a little to fit better under the amp's mounting points. the bar across was bolted into the rear parcel shelf and the amp rested on the legs.



















it shouldn't be too hard to have something bent up to attach to the rear wall of the cab and allow you to mount the amp to it.


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

leorbolato said:


> I don´t like put the amp in the sub box. It shakes a lot, and it may cause future problems


yea, thats what i was thinking



MarkZ said:


> If the box is made well, it shouldn't shake much. At least not compared to the rest of the car.
> 
> Or, put another way, if the box is made well, EVERYTHING in the car should shake.


the box is very well built, so maybe adding another 3/4" mdf for the amp to sit on would make it more solid and less prone to internal damage. 



nineball said:


> i went to a local metal fabrication place i found in the yellowpages and had some metal bent up to the angles i wanted for a floating amp rack. i made a template with a coat hanger and took it to them, they cut and bent the pieces i needed and welded them together. i also had them trim down the tips a little to fit better under the amp's mounting points. the bar across was bolted into the rear parcel shelf and the amp rested on the legs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats waht i was thinking, time to google local metal fab's. floating amps!! except i wanna also hide all the wires so maybe a tube design to run them through, hmm...


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## richardovalle (Dec 7, 2009)

area51 said:


> You could make an angled amp rack out of mdf and glue to the top of the box. You'd be surprised how strong wood glue is.


i second this. MDF platform with thick rubber on the seat to remove vibration and give your amp longevity from the vibrations.


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

Keep the ideas coming!


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## PriusNnyc (Nov 6, 2009)

Don't mean to keep quoting bcae - but I JUST read this and thought I'd pass it along: (edited)

"_*Amplifier mounting:*
DO NOT mount an amplifier on your subwoofer box. I know that there has been a great deal of discussion over mounting an amplifier to an enclosure and many people do it all of the time with no problems but those people probably build good enclosures from 3/4" (or thicker) MDF with extensive bracing...

*REASON:*
When the woofer(s) moves in or out, the box flexes and therefore causes the sides of the box to vibrate. This vibration is transferred to the amplifier mounted to the box. All of the electrical components in the amplifier have mass. Inertia (an object in motion tends to stay in motion, an object at rest tends to stay at rest) tells them to stay at rest, the box vibration is trying to make them move. The energy from the box's vibration is transferred to the components through the electrical leads which are soldered into the circuit board. All of this will cause the components to break loose and therefore cause the amplifier to fail prematurely. Basically, the amplifier will commit suicide! _


(here is the actual link for anyone interested in reading the whole thing (must scroll down a ways to find info on mounting):Amplifier

He then goes on to say how to build something for the box if you really do want to mount it there. So... If you go to read it, you'll notice he also talks about using (a good wood) glue as a vibration barrier. Sounds like with 3/4" mdf you might not have a problem.

That said, that metal floating device nineball had made up looks awesome! I'd try to go with that if for no other reason than people have to ask you about what it is and how you did it!

nineball: is that for your Porsche box??

Also, FWIW, my Alpine amp specifically says in the manual that it has to be installed parallel to the floor otherwise it voids the warranty! Yikes! YMMV

Good luck - let us know what you end up with!


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

nope. that was for this setup but sadly i lost the pics of it installed. this is how it started and the amp was eventually hanging from the rear parcel shelf in the middle. i would go out and snap a pic of it now but i just sold that car last week.










build log (sort of)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2479190/2


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

PriusNnyc said:


> Don't mean to keep quoting bcae - but I JUST read this and thought I'd pass it along: (edited)
> 
> "_*Amplifier mounting:*
> DO NOT mount an amplifier on your subwoofer box. I know that there has been a great deal of discussion over mounting an amplifier to an enclosure and many people do it all of the time with no problems but those people probably build good enclosures from 3/4" (or thicker) MDF with extensive bracing...
> ...


Since when has Perry become the be all and end all of car audio?

My car is going to need shocks pretty soon. But good thing my amps aren't vibrating on my box! The winter potholes are good for it. Builds character.

Speaking of, my trunk is IB. My amps are mounted in the trunk. So does this mean it's mounted on the box?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

comparing the vibrations from daily driving to what a sub produces is not a fair comparison. i would guess that the amount of vibrations from a single days use of a sub would be more than the car would experience in a weeks worth of driving. 

i look at it like any other aspect of a system - there are lots of ways to get the job done but i try to find the best possible solution. you don't have to use heat shrink or electrical tape on wire connections for them to work but they do protect against problems like shorting out. you can mount an amp anywhere you like since you own it, but if i spent the cash for an amp i would want to prolong its life in any way i could. this includes not mounting it on an enclosure to protect against vibrations.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

nineball said:


> comparing the vibrations from daily driving to what a sub produces is not a fair comparison. i would guess that the amount of vibrations from a single days use of a sub would be more than the car would experience in a weeks worth of driving.


Yeah, the driving vibrations are probably worse. 

The reason I say that is because you hit a pothole and it causes a jarring vibration of very great magnitude. The vibrations coupled to a properly constructed box shouldn't be considerably greater than the vibrations elsewhere in the trunk.

I'm also trying to think of what in the amplifier is so susceptible to vibrations. The electrolytics, maybe. Mechanical relays and other things with moving parts possibly. Maybe the solder joints if they're iffy. Could get chip creep if the op amps are socketed, but that shouldn't be the case. Other than that, solid state devices shouldn't be vibration sensitive.

Let me put things in perspective here. I've run hard drives in my trunk forever, even sometimes coupled to the sub box. Never had any bad sectors, and that includes road bumps.

Personally, I don't think there's much evidence that vibrations are that detrimental to the solid state electronics that we're talking about here. Maybe I'm talking out my ass here, but I don't think so.


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## Billk1002 (Aug 23, 2009)

My amps are mounted on my IB board with a piece of carpet and 1/4" rubber gromets under them.
I don't think that its where you mount them, but how they are isolated from what they are mounted to.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Mine is right between my quad 12s, and IMO not the best place for it....but the only place. It is mounted on vibration pads made of rubber and cork. The whole rear of the car seems to shake so not sure where would be a good place. 

What often breaks is the legs on the sink mounted transistors, like the outputs and power supply. It is because many amps do not screw the board down. Sometimes boards crack or solders go bad, toroids go bad too.

One thing about the kicker is the bottom is sink too, so I also wanted it above the surface for air circulation.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

sqshoestring said:


> Mine is right between my quad 12s, and IMO not the best place for it....but the only place. It is mounted on vibration pads made of rubber and cork. The whole rear of the car seems to shake so not sure where would be a good place.
> 
> What often breaks is the legs on the sink mounted transistors, like the outputs and power supply. It is because many amps do not screw the board down. Sometimes boards crack or solders go bad, toroids go bad too.
> 
> One thing about the kicker is the bottom is sink too, so I also wanted it above the surface for air circulation.


I don't see how you'll break transistor legs from subwoofer vibrations. Jarring shocks, yes. But smaller magnitude vibrations?


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## RBeachTL (Jul 21, 2008)

Even without the potholes it's hard to see how the vibrations from the enclosure come close to the amplitude of those you get from the road.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

RBeachTL said:


> Even without the potholes it's hard to see how the vibrations from the enclosure come close to the amplitude of those you get from the road.



if that was the case why do people need to add something to stop vibrations AFTER installing subs? how many tens of thousands of times in a normal days usage of a sub does it vibrate? a sub in an enclosure will cause 100x more vibrations than normal everyday driving. if an amp is mounted to a box it usually has one item to help with vibration - the carpet. a car has tires, shock/struts, springs, rubber bushings, carpeting, etc etc. we are not talking about vibrations to the entire car here, just to the amp. if it is already going to be affected by normal driving why magnify those potential problems by mounting it directly to something that not only produces it's own movement (vibrations) but also vibrates consistently more than anything else in the car?


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

Some of the products I work on go through extensive vibration and environmental tests. Probably because they go into humvees and fighter jets. The only issues we encountered were screws coming loose. Internal electronics are standard of the shelf parts and never caused a problem. Do any car amp manufacturers put their products through a vibe test? If not they probably should. A car is a pretty violent environment no matter where you mount the amp.


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## RBeachTL (Jul 21, 2008)

nineball said:


> if that was the case why do people need to add something to stop vibrations AFTER installing subs? how many tens of thousands of times in a normal days usage of a sub does it vibrate? a sub in an enclosure will cause 100x more vibrations than normal everyday driving. if an amp is mounted to a box it usually has one item to help with vibration - the carpet. a car has tires, shock/struts, springs, rubber bushings, carpeting, etc etc. we are not talking about vibrations to the entire car here, just to the amp. if it is already going to be affected by normal driving why magnify those potential problems by mounting it directly to something that not only produces it's own movement (vibrations) but also vibrates consistently more than anything else in the car?


Hey don't get me wrong, I'm not advicating mounting an amp to the sub enclosure *but *with all of the choices and tradeoffs that we have to make I don't see that it is the worst mounting location either. Also, a well made enclosure will have very little flex or vibration on the outer surface due to the driver motion. A friend of mine is an expert speaker builder and with the cabinets he makes you couldn't tell if the speaker was playing or not by the surface of the enclosure.


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

What about all the home subwoofers with internal amps inside the box?


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## PriusNnyc (Nov 6, 2009)

SoundChaser said:


> What about all the home subwoofers with internal amps inside the box?


I was just thinking that! I don't own any home subwoofers (bring an apartment dweller in nyc hinders that a bit...) but my pair of Genelecs are active bi-amped speakers. Obviously, the electronics are inside but they are very well isolated from vibration. I'm not sure if others do it the same way, but is it fair to say that as long as the amp is well insulated from vibrations that mounting location is secondary??


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

Also, FWIW, my Alpine amp specifically says in the manual that it has to be installed parallel to the floor otherwise it voids the warranty! Yikes! YMMV

it sez,
Note: if stacking amplifiers, do not install horizontally or at an incline, any installation other than than parallel to the vehicle floor, invalidates the warranty??? 
clear as mud right? 
so if its a single amp is it ok?
alpine has a show car with pdxs mounted horizontally singles to the rear of the front seats of the car, I find that confusing....


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## PriusNnyc (Nov 6, 2009)

Yeah, I wondered about that line as well. I guess it's the period between the two sentences that has me second guessing, so I just saw... "Any installation...etc." And since I can mount it parallel I figured I wouldn't test it. But you're probably right in that it's cautionary for stacking amps.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

nineball said:


> if that was the case why do people need to add something to stop vibrations AFTER installing subs? how many tens of thousands of times in a normal days usage of a sub does it vibrate? a sub in an enclosure will cause 100x more vibrations than normal everyday driving. if an amp is mounted to a box it usually has one item to help with vibration - the carpet. a car has tires, shock/struts, springs, rubber bushings, carpeting, etc etc. we are not talking about vibrations to the entire car here, just to the amp. if it is already going to be affected by normal driving why magnify those potential problems by mounting it directly to something that not only produces it's own movement (vibrations) but also vibrates consistently more than anything else in the car?


Know what causes vibrations even more frequently than even the sub? The engine. Because the engine tends to be in operation more often than your bass.

But I don't think that matters. Why is it important how OFTEN the vibrations go on? Shouldn't the magnitude of the vibrations be important? After all, we're hypothesizing that vibrations will dislodge, perturb, or break something in the amp. Minor vibrations should be of little consequence. Big ****ing potholes that eat your car should be the real concern!

I just don't buy that the difference in vibration magnitude between box-mounting and trunk-mounting (which ALSO vibrates...like everything else in the car) is a significant issue. In fact, I can think of a few reasons where mounting to a box could reduce vibrations in comparison to mounting to something more tightly coupled to the chassis...


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Mounting an amp to anything that is doing it's best to create lots of low frequency sound is asking for trouble. Large amounts of vibration do little to nothing to help the performance of solid state electronics, so why argue in favor of subjecting your amp to extra? 

Those who believe their engine, or the bumps in the road are going to cause more problems than your average pair of subs are kidding themselves. 

Your average bump in the road is absorbed by the suspension in your car to a great extent, and is not vibrating your amp at 30-250 cycles per second. The vibration from your engine, absorbed by your motor mounts, and isolated by the distance between your engine, and your amp (unless you mount your amp under your hood). Also, have any of you guys ever used locktite on a bolt in your motor? Guess why? 

Home subwoofers are inherently less powerful than what a lot of us put in our cars. Home sub cabinets are often extremely well braced. My omni-polar sub cabinet is built with opposing woofers, and makes so little vibration in the cabinet that I can put a glass of water on top of the sub, and you will see no ripples, and the glass will stay put (on a smooth black laquer cabinet). Try that with your well built car sub enclosure...

There is a reason why just about every amplifier repair shop, and ever amplifier manufacturer will recommend that you don't mount the amp to the sub box. Heck, at one point DB-R.com had an article on it, and showed examples of vibration damage. They've changed their website up a bit, so I couldn't find the article. 

I'm not sure why this is so contested. Avoiding any additional vibration seems like common sense to me. Mounting to the box exposes the amp to not only all vehicle vibrations, but extra from the subwoofer as well. Seems like a no-brainer to me to avoid this.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Mounting an amp to anything that is doing it's best to create lots of low frequency sound is asking for trouble. Large amounts of vibration do little to nothing to help the performance of solid state electronics, so why argue in favor of subjecting your amp to extra?
> 
> Those who believe their engine, or the bumps in the road are going to cause more problems than your average pair of subs are kidding themselves.
> 
> ...


I'm confused. That website you mention...what was damaged by the vibration?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> I'm confused. That website you mention...what was damaged by the vibration?


IIRC, Daughter cards coming off the main board. Fet's breaking legs off of the board. Basically, all the components on the board have weight, and when you mount the amp vertically on a vibrating sub enclosure, the weight combined with the added vibration can cause components to loosen up off the board. Solder, after all, is a very malleable metal, and breaks fairly easily. 

No offense to anyone that gave their insight, but i'll take the word of the manufacturer, and a guy that repairs these products over Joe Blow off the street.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Well, I think the point of this forum is not to have to take anyone's word for anything.  As we've seen countless times around here, manufacturer recommendations are often wrong or misleading. And many of the amplifier repair folks in here disagree on a number of topics.

I can definitely see daughter boards being an issue, depending on how they're secured. I hate daughter boards in car audio amps period. Although I'm probably a bit of a hypocrite in that regard since I'm running ESX amps, so...

Solder should be fine and shouldn't break. I understand that it does, though, because things are often not built perfectly. Solid state components should be fine though. There isn't really anything that's vibration sensitive, per se.

FET legs ... that doesn't make any sense to me. I've seen axial leads on caps become a little wiggly, but these should be glued down if there's appreciable length to them.

Anyway, my point throughout this thread has been that the vibration on your box shouldn't be much different from the vibration on the panel next to your box, or wherever your amp is. This assumes that the box is constructed well, which may not be a safe assumption. But for my stuff, I'm far more concerned with jarring vibrations. I've seen damage occur from that (cracked board, actually -- not in an amp). Motor mounts, shocks, etc help. But anyone who's hit a pothole or driven on a bumpy road realizes that you're not floating on air.

I'll compromise on this issue and say this: if you're going to mount the amp on your box, make sure it's constructed well.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> Well, I think the point of this forum is not to have to take anyone's word for anything.  As we've seen countless times around here, manufacturer recommendations are often wrong or misleading. And many of the amplifier repair folks in here disagree on a number of topics.
> 
> I can definitely see daughter boards being an issue, depending on how they're secured. I hate daughter boards in car audio amps period. Although I'm probably a bit of a hypocrite in that regard since I'm running ESX amps, so...
> 
> ...


Fair enough.

I'd ask you to try one thing though. Play your sub at your full listening volume. Rest your hand on the back of your well constructed enclosure, then rest your hand on the floor of your car, or the back of your seat (assuming you could mount an amp there) and tell me which feels like it has more vibration running through it. My bet is on the sub box.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I'd ask you to try one thing though. Play your sub at your full listening volume. Rest your hand on the back of your well constructed enclosure, then rest your hand on the floor of your car, or the back of your seat (assuming you could mount an amp there) and tell me which feels like it has more vibration running through it. My bet is on the sub box.


Well, I run IB, so... 

But your point is well taken, and in some cases the sub box will vibrate more than another surface. Sometimes, however, it will vibrate LESS. Depends a lot on the resonant frequencies of the surfaces. Everybody's saying "Don't mount it to the box!!" but I haven't seen a single person mention that you should measure the resonant frequency of your amp rack.


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