# Audiotec Fischer Brax & Helix amps?



## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

Anybody have any input on the Brax or Helix Lines of amps? The build quality looks amazing When I pull this trigger I want something that is going to give me many years of listening pleasure.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Theyre looking good. i cant wait to get my hands on the new Helix M and C(?) lines. The M line is a very compact yet powerful class d budget friendly line. The C (i think thats the name they are using) is replacing the A and H lines as a higher power, class AB line of amps. These arent on the website yet. I'll get to check those out in about 10 days at knowledgefest. The brax stuff is just ****ing insane. I have used a couple of the models and they are the best amps ive used imo, from a sound, build quality, and flat out brute force perspective. size and ease of install, not so much lol, theyre big


https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/detail/index/sArticle/496


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

IMHO it is extremely hard to get better build quality and design then the Brax amps.

Close to as good, for a little less money??...SURE...look at the Tru Technology line or Zapco LX amps, but IMO the Brax AB amps are simply at the top in terms of the combination of build design, build components and actual manufacturing.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Cant wait to try the m6!


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

I’d love to hear back about the new lines after you see them. I’d really like to try one of their amps out even if it’s pre owned.


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## TomT (May 19, 2005)

I had a Brax MX2 for a couple of months running my midbass. Clean as hell and power for days. I ended up going back to my previous TRU B-22 Stage 4. The Brax was just too much money for me to use for just midbass when I already had a very high end amp.

An all Brax power section would be very impressive (MX2 and MX4). They are built like tanks and will most likely last longer than the vehicle they’re installed in.


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> These arent on the website yet. I'll get to check those out in about 10 days at knowledgefest. The brax stuff is just ****ing insane.
> 
> 
> https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/detail/index/sArticle/496


Did you ever get to knowledgefest im dying to know about the new Helix lines!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ridgerunner said:


> Did you ever get to knowledgefest im dying to know about the new Helix lines!!


I did. What do you want to know about em? The M line is small and powerful at a good price point, and the soon to be released C line is a more powerful and refined version of the old A line

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## Justintime (Sep 23, 2014)

Has anybody ever tried Sinfoni? I always wonder how the Sinfoni (La Prima line) comparing to Brax Matrix.

I have the Helix P6 MK2 but have not gotten the time to install it.


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## pennyroyal (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm hoping Helix will expand their "P" line. I just found the first review I've seen on the P-Two here, which has me stoked (mine arrives tomorrow  ). Specs look beefy and would love to see a similar 4 ch version in the 150-200w range


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

I had two MX4 and an MX2. IMO the sound they produced was accurate, but clinical/lifeless. And you really had to crank the gains to get volume out of them.

I ended up selling them and bought some Celestra VA amps, which IMO blew the MX amps away in every way. Full of life/realism with gobs of reserve power for a highly dynamic experience.

If you compare the specs on paper, the distortion numbers aren't comparable. That comes down to the design. Matrix uses a ton of negative feedback to obtain absurdly low distortion numbers. Celestra VA uses a zero feedback design with actual jfet preamp circuitry. Comparing them, I must say it's my suspicion the MX's negative feedback design is what kills the "life" out of them...and probably contributes to the low signal level (every pass back takes away signal).

Ultimately I ended up landing on Zapco AP amps to use in my car. I don't feel I'm missing anything by way of life/realism/dynamics v/s the Celestra VA amps - at a fraction of the price.


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

benny z said:


> I had two MX4 and an MX2. IMO the sound they produced was accurate, but clinical/lifeless. And you really had to crank the gains to get volume out of them.
> 
> I ended up selling them and bought some Celestra VA amps, which IMO blew the MX amps away in every way. Full of life/realism with gobs of reserve power for a highly dynamic experience.
> 
> ...


Wow that’s some good info to know. I’ve pretty much have it narrowed down to the zapco ap amps or the helix. I am waiting to see what new with the helix before I make my decision. I already have a spxl 1000 and a zk2d for sub duties it’s just a matter of choosing between what I’m going to use to run the front stage. But it’s good to know you speak so highly of the ap line because it’s pretty affordable.


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> > Did you ever get to knowledgefest im dying to know about the new Helix lines!!
> ...


 As far as the C line will there be a 6 channel? Any power ratings?


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

Justintime said:


> Has anybody ever tried Sinfoni? I always wonder how the Sinfoni (La Prima line) comparing to Brax Matrix.
> 
> I have the Helix P6 MK2 but have not gotten the time to install it.


 Id like to hear your opinion of the P6 MK2 when you install it. That has also been a consideration of mine. I have read some pretty positive reviews of it.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Justintime said:


> Has anybody ever tried Sinfoni? I always wonder how the Sinfoni (La Prima line) comparing to Brax Matrix.
> 
> I have the Helix P6 MK2 but have not gotten the time to install it.


I'll take the brax over just about any amp.









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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

For me the only issue with the Brax is that it’s 4 channels and I want a six channel amp for three way active. I’ve seen the NOX4 dsp’s in the price range of what I’m budgeting but I’m not really sold on built in dsp and then again only 4 ch. I thought of dropping a channel to do two way but still really uncertain of built in dsp.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ridgerunner said:


> For me the only issue with the Brax is that it’s 4 channels and I want a six channel amp for three way active. I’ve seen the NOX4 dsp’s in the price range of what I’m budgeting but I’m not really sold on built in dsp and then again only 4 ch. I thought of dropping a channel to do two way but still really uncertain of built in dsp.


then get an mx2 and an mx4


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

I might consider it if I found a preowned pair.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Ridgerunner said:


> For me the only issue with the Brax is that it’s 4 channels and I want a six channel amp for three way active. I’ve seen the NOX4 dsp’s in the price range of what I’m budgeting but I’m not really sold on built in dsp and then again only 4 ch. I thought of dropping a channel to do two way but still really uncertain of built in dsp.


The NICE thing about the NOX4 is that it has an extra two channels of output from the DSP that you can run into another amps for a total of SIX channels of tuning with the built in DSP.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

benny z said:


> I had two MX4 and an MX2. IMO the sound they produced was accurate, but clinical/lifeless. And you really had to crank the gains to get volume out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I too tested my MX2 against the HV Venti and I must say they were close in sound quality

I tested the MX2 against my Thesis Due and with the right speakers the MX2 smashed the Thesis 

Against the HV it was much closer...

The HV edged the MX in terms of naturalness but everything else the amps were close 

I also noticed for a 2x550 the gains were surprisingly high compared to the HV which was at a quarter gain where the MX was nearly 3/4 gain 

I attribute that to the seriously low numbers the Brax amp....

As far as quality is concerned not many get the pleasure of these amps be it either the MX or HV so it’s down to blend of equipment and source that either works or doesn’t with these amps

I can hardly believe there are better sounding amps than either the HV or the MX - at this level it’s subjective to which is better 

When I tested my MX amps on my home speakers (average speakers Monitor Audio) the MX amps almost sounded like the tweeter was blown as it seemed to have a much higher frequency response in comparison to my Thesis Due which sounded smooth and normal 

Honestly I thought the Brax amps were a load of over hyped over priced marketing rubbish...

Till I remembered a review on the Audison HV Venti where they did mention source and speakers were important - so I decided to change speakers to a Focal Kit 7 (I had so I made speaker cabinets with them) 

Where the Brax sounded crap before - with the Kit 7 it sounded magnificent where the Thesis sounded good - now sounded average.

The Kit 7 responded to the Brax much better than what the Thesis did - on a good set of speakers the Brax is another beast..

When I tested the HV Venti off the Kit 7 the HV Venti was a much closer contest to the Brax - the naturalness of the HV Venti was superior to the Brax - but both were awesome and if you had either you should be extremely happy...

The shortfall of the HV is that it’s only a 2 channel amp and therefore you need a absolute minimum of 2 which costs a fortune - where the Brax you get a 2 and 4 channel so it’s more affordable

If you wait another 2 months you can’t get the new MXPRO amps - I spoke to Julian and they are due to be released now... 

4x300 is about all the amp you will ever need imho....


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

benny z said:


> Ultimately I ended up landing on Zapco AP amps to use in my car. I don't feel I'm missing anything by way of life/realism/dynamics v/s the Celestra VA amps - at a fraction of the price.


Funny, out of everything you see on the table in my photo, the zapco ap and the brax mx sounded the most similar. *Almost* indistinguishable 

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Just curious I may have missed your original post .... what source did you use and what speakers? 


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

benny z said:


> I had two MX4 and an MX2. IMO the sound they produced was accurate, but clinical/lifeless. And you really had to crank the gains to get volume out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What was your system layout if I may ask?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

*Audiotec Fischer Brax &amp; Helix amps?*



SkizeR said:


> Funny, out of everything you see on the table in my photo, the zapco ap and the brax mx sounded the most similar. *Almost* indistinguishable
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk



Tonality and transparency are definitely on par with each other with almost all the amps at this level. It came down to a presentation of sound that was technical vs emotional for me. Hard to describe and we are splitting hairs over subjective qualities at this point. And like Elektra says, maybe it’s the speakers. 



Elektra said:


> What was your system layout if I may ask?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sony GS9 right into the amps and out to my home Focal speakers.

I did borrow a good friend’s amp switch, but only used that to test the Matrix against a completely different amp to verify I wasn’t crazy in my initial opinion of the sound.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

*Re: Audiotec Fischer Brax &amp; Helix amps?*



benny z said:


> Tonality and transparency are definitely on par with each other with almost all the amps at this level. It came down to a presentation of sound that was technical vs emotional for me. Hard to describe and we are splitting hairs over subjective qualities at this point. And like Elektra says, maybe it’s the speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sheesh I did the same test... GS9 Into a kit 7 ....

I had the MX2 and HV Venti powered side by side.. seriously it was splitting hairs between the 2 ..

The HV was a little more natural and musical but both equally detailed to the Nth degree..

Both superb...

Quite a big difference between the Thesis to the Brax and HV though...

What cables did you use? I used Audioquest Sky and AudioQuest Speaker cables and AudioQuest Diamond USB to Lightning cable for my IPhone....

Lots of Russian reviews mentioned that different types of cables had an impact in both the HV and Brax MX amps... I know some may frown on this but I find it’s true to some effect...

What Focal speakers? 


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 23, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> benny z said:
> 
> 
> > Ultimately I ended up landing on Zapco AP amps to use in my car. I don't feel I'm missing anything by way of life/realism/dynamics v/s the Celestra VA amps - at a fraction of the price.
> ...


At least it’s good to know that those are my two final choices I’m going with either the Zapco AP or Helix C line just waiting to hear what the new line has to offer to make my decision.


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