# Invasion of the door panel snatchers!!!



## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Has your door panel been abducted? Do you suspect it has been replaced with a pod door? Are the old familiar rattles that you knew and loved gone? Is your bass response tighter and cleaner? Maybe you're just paranoid...or maybe you're right.

Fortunately my door panels were assembled in two parts or I never would have attempted this. I may be crazy, but I'm not *that* stupid. It was pretty easy to separate them, but I did need to trim the top panel and I will need to reglue some of the vinyl back down.









Once that was out of the way, it was time to cut the template. I used a 3/8" birch ply. I probably could have used something lighter, but I do want a rigid enclosure.









I'm using poplar for the struts. I probably could have used something lighter to make the frame, but this is easy to work with and it's sturdy









Starting to take shape. 









I'm predicting volume will be about 10L when I'm done. 13.5L is ideal, but I don't know how to get that without ruining the lines of the door. I'll stuff some polyfill in and it should get me a nice flat response. This is what it looks like without polyfill. There is a tiny hump, but it's pretty damn flat.


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## oneiztoomany (Oct 1, 2007)

want to do my doors next?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Mooble said:


> I'm predicting volume will be about 10L when I'm done. 13.5L is ideal, but I don't know how to get that without ruining the lines of the door. I'll stuff some polyfill in and it should get me a nice flat response. This is what it looks like without polyfill. There is a tiny hump, but it's pretty damn flat.


Looks like you know about this already but just in case.....

http://zaphaudio.com/tidbits/

"Tall enclosures...

I've often told people who want to use tall enclosures that there needs to be a lot of extra damping at the bottom. See the vented option in the ZD5 project for example. Sometimes I wonder if people think I'm just pulling advice out of my ass. Rest assured however, that almost everything I do has a reason. (Heheh, I stuck "almost" in that statement because I'm human)

The following impedance curves are from a single woofer in a vented 38" tall tower. We have two different amounts of damping at the bottom. All other surfaces are well braced and lined with Whispermat.

# [Image] - Impedance curve, small clump of Acousta-stuf at the bottom
# [Image] - Impedance curve, 8" thick densely packed Acousta-stuf at the bottom

*A little clump wasn't enough to kill the lengthwise pressure node at 140hz, it took nearly a pound of Acousta-stuff densely packed into the bottom area. *(and even then, it's not completely gone, but good enough for me) The undamped pressure node is visible as a peak in the impedance curve and also as a dip/peak combo in the frequency response. Audibly, I think it just sounds like a little lack of definition or "mud" in the midbass. Properly damped, it's clean and tight. Consider this verification of something I've always recommended. Single volume tall enclosures work fine, but you better pay attention to that lengthwise node. As the enclosure gets longer, the more damping you need."


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

Looks good man, lemme know if you need any sort of assistance!


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh, and I have some black and charcoal colored vinyl if you need it. I also just bought a cheap spray gun to spray contact cement.


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

I sooo wish I had two-piece door panels.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

GLN305 said:


> Oh, and I have some black and charcoal colored vinyl if you need it. I also just bought a cheap spray gun to spray contact cement.


Sweet! I was going to buy some nice looking vinyl at Hancock, but the lady didn't believe that I had cut 2 yards and wanted me to go back and wait 20 minutes in line for someone to measure it. I dropped the stuff and walked out. 

It will probably be weeks before I'm at the final stage where I need vinyl. Fortunately I can work on this at my leisure until it's right.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Looks like you know about this already but just in case.....
> 
> http://zaphaudio.com/tidbits/


Nope, actually I didn't. It probably would have driven me crazy trying to figure out why it didn't sound right. It's going to be a long, thin enclosure. I'll pack some extra polyfill at the bottom. I'm also putting 2" of open cell foam directly behind the woofer.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I had to trim some of the panel off to get the curve right, but I left the vinyl in place and just glued it back for a stock look. WHY THE HELL DOES EPOXY SMELL SO BAD!!!! It's been 12 hours and I can still smell that damn epoxy!

















Well, I've gotten the frame together well enough to lay the first coat of fleece. I used planter foam to make the mold for the speaker pod portion. It's rigid enough to cut with a saw, but you can still trim it with a knife.









Here's my next problem: how do I fleece the foam? I'm thinking I may cover the pod in wax paper and then fleece over it directly. I can then rip the foam apart from the inside out once the fleece is fiberglassed. I also need to cut the speaker ring and recess it inside the mold to make it flush.









I'm feeling pretty good at this point. At least I can see the shape of the enclosure now.


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## M3NTAL (Apr 9, 2006)

That's a HUGE Bish


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

nice! looks good.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

M3NTAL said:


> That's a HUGE Bish


Yeah, if I were looking for drivers again, I'd choose something with a little less volume requirement. I have no doubt that I'll make my 10L goal. The pod turned out to be a little larger than I thought. I might even make 12L. She's a biggun.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I love seeing a good door panel build up. Good luck! Looking good so far.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I can see how it's gonna look, that's a whole lotta volume LOL.

If you need some advice PM me or call me and I can give you some ideas on how to fleece/glass it as well as working with the floral foam.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

GLN305 said:


> I can see how it's gonna look, that's a whole lotta volume LOL.


I realized when I was test fitting the pod that I won't be able to open the glovebox with the door open because the pod sticks out too far.  Oh yeah, the things we sacrifice for sound! Imagine the look on the cop's face when I tell him that I need to get out and open the passenger door to get my registration. I don't really see any way to change that though. The only way to get an on-axis angle is to pull it out that far. 

Another fun fact, I had to build it all over again from scratch today. It was going to be too difficult to mount securely the way I had it before so I cut the base again and left mounting tabs this time. DOH!


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## braves6117 (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm liking this a lot....anxious to see.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I got to see these in person today....looks like plenty of room for an 8"


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Right now the enclosure is getting a coating of elastomeric goo (more to come on that later). I got the fleece today and some card stock to shape it. The frame is very rigid and suspect I won't need too many coats of fiberglass mat on top of it, but we'll see. 

It's definitely big enough for an 8, but the Supremos have such good bass response I don't think I need it. Maybe someday when I go to a 3-way... I can't wait to hear how tight the mids are going to be now in a sealed enclosure.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I've been going ape-**** with the elastomeric compound. This stuff is just plain fun. I think I have about 40 mils on the inside of the door panel now. I'll try to put that much inside the door also but it's slow going. It's a good thing I don't have a timetable.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

what is the name of the compound you are using?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> what is the name of the compound you are using?


Solarflex 287SF

Here's today's progress:









I can hear a change in the resonance of the door when I hit it, but not as profound as mass loaders, but then that's not its purpose. I've got 3 coats in there now. I will try to put about 2mm of it when I'm done. That will probably take another 3 or 4 coats. I figure this will take about 3 weeks total spending about 3 hours a day on it. I'm in no rush. On top of all the coating, I will put as much foam as I can fit. I already had 1/2" Volara on the floors and 1/4" behind the panels, but I didn't do a good job or securing it. This time I will trim all the foam to fit exactly. Behind some of the panels I'll be able to fit at least 1" or more. I'm going ape-****. When it was new, this was a really quiet car-67dB at highway speed. I want to lower that considerably.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

what kinda price is it?
is it a product like spectrum?
cause i am looking for a product for my floors and possibly for over some free edead.
i like the build. looking nice!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> what kinda price is it?
> is it a product like spectrum?
> cause i am looking for a product for my floors and possibly for over some free edead.
> i like the build. looking nice!


It has yet to be determined how well it works because I have only coated a limited area, but there is definitely a change of tone in my door. It is like Spectrum in that it is an elastomeric coating. Interestingly enough, Sludge activator works on it too and turns it into a thick paste. Take that to mean what you will.

Price - $21.85 a gallon with tax.  Unless you go crazy like me, 2 gallons is more than enough to completely coat your car 60 mils thick.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

next time you go to glue vinyl, simply use heavy duty contact cement. Works wonders and after dry no smell.

if you wrap the foam in tinfoil and coat it with petroleum jelly, your mold should pop right off of the fglass


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

AzGrower said:


> if you wrap the foam in tinfoil and coat it with petroleum jelly, your mold should pop right off of the fglass


That's the plan. My resin should come in from US Composites tomorrow and then I can work on the door enclosures again although I still have days and days left on the inside of the car. I'm going to be seriously pissed if my noise floor doesn't drop to around 60dB (cruising) with all of this work.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

where did you pick the stuff up?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> where did you pick the stuff up?


Home Depot. There are some even better products out there like their Premium line, but they have to be special ordered.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

i think i might get some of this. if only to go over a cheaper asphalt based deadener to seal it.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> i think i might get some of this. if only to go over a cheaper asphalt based deadener to seal it.


Bingo! I used peel and seal in the rear of the car and it ran like a bunny on any panel that was exposed to sun. It's fine on the inner panels, but this stuff does a good job of sealing in the peel and seal. That's one reason I wanted to use it.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Hmm.. i believe we may have discovered the cheaper alternative...
I think i'll go to Home depot later tonight jsut to pick up a few gallons.
20 bucks a gallon is worth the review !


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm a bit interested in this solarflex now. How did it stick to your door panel? I found that Spectrum doesn't adhere to plastic panels very well.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

James Bang said:


> I'm a bit interested in this solarflex now. How did it stick to your door panel? I found that Spectrum doesn't adhere to plastic panels very well.


I had no problem with it. There was already a layer of Spectrum on the plastic before I started. You can peel it off, sure, but it's not coming off on its own.

Henry makes something even better called 291 Premium elastomeric compound, but I couldn't find it anywhere. The solids content on it is higher than Solarflex. Henry also makes automotive coatings, but again, I couldn't find them. They are also asphalt based and I wanted to stay away from that. I think it's more used for undercoating.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

you know how much the premium is?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> you know how much the premium is?


Not a clue. I never found it anywhere.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Why so big? And why are you aiming the pods? They will be so far inside the car that aiming them wouldn't do much good. Plus those things are going to weigh a ton, and will really start to play hell on your door hinges. IB flat on the door would be the way to go IMO.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

I woudln't worry too much about that premium.
If anything at all, just double-stack the solarflex and you should be good.

In addition, the 291 premium is asphalt based. Would probably end up smelling like a construction zone every day in summer.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Why so big? And why are you aiming the pods? They will be so far inside the car that aiming them wouldn't do much good. Plus those things are going to weigh a ton, and will really start to play hell on your door hinges. IB flat on the door would be the way to go IMO.


I don't like booming midbass. 10+ liters is required to tone them down. Anything smaller and I get a big ol' hump. They really don't stick in that far. At the most, they probably stick in 3" more than where they are now in the door. It will also almost equalize the pathlength between woofer and tweeter. They will also be on axis with the tweeters which sit up much higher. Tonality should improve, imaging should be dead on; it seems like a win/win situation. 

They will weigh a lot, but I'm doing some things to keep weight down. I'm using a nice woven mat and the strongest resin US Composites sells to use as little of it as possible and still retain strength. 

IB didn't work. There is no way to seal the door completely and the rattles were driving me crazy. There is nothing you can do about the weatherstripping around the windows and it flaps like a mofo on heavy bass notes.


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## guitarsail (Oct 12, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Why so big? And why are you aiming the pods? They will be so far inside the car that aiming them wouldn't do much good. Plus those things are going to weigh a ton, and will really start to play hell on your door hinges. IB flat on the door would be the way to go IMO.


If weight on hinges is your concern...don't look at my build thread then...sealed enclosures are the way to go if you can do it.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

well.... i think i may be picking some of this up. i want to do my hatch and stuff.

my question was how did you apply it?


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

ggk, Are you referring to the Solarflex ?

I'm pretty sure just a roller/cheapo brush..


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Yep. Don't paint it like wall paint, it will take forever. Slop it on there nice and thick. Don't paint it so much as spread it. It will take a long time to dry. I would leave the trim panels out of your car for a week. It should be completely cured in a month, but you can put everything back together long before that.


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

How long would you say it'll take to get it dry to the touch? 

Being that I only have one daily driver car, I wouldn't want to drive around with my car in pieces.

Would it dry within a few hours?

I know spectrum takes a month to "fully" cure, but you can replace panels back within and hour depending on how thick the layer is.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Thin layers are dry in an hour. Thick layers take 4-6 hours. Really thick layers take 12 hours to be completely dry. It will skin over in about 45 minutes though.

Don't bother if you're just doing a thin coat, I don't think you'd notice any benefits. I'd slop on at least 60 mils if you want to hear a difference.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Been there in 95 and did it again in 05...biggest PITA that I have ever done. In 05 I made the enclosures inside the doors. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't bother with it.



guitarsail said:


> If weight on hinges is your concern...don't look at my build thread then...sealed enclosures are the way to go if you can do it.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I have to ask, have you built test enclosures and have tried them in the car?

And it sounds to me that a lot of your problems with your midbass response could be corrected with EQ and tuning.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> And it sounds to me that a lot of your problems with your midbass response could be corrected with EQ and tuning.


There's no problem with my midbass response. The problem is in the door. Besides, no IB setup will ever give me as flat a response as the enclosure so I eradicate the annoying sounds and get a tighter response in the process.

I've spent probably 12-15 hours tuning my system. I don't need to put the woofers on axis, but since I'm building a custom enclosure anyway, why not? It certainly won't hurt anything. The Supremos are anything but bright. My image is already perfect and the L and R EQs balanced via test tones.

Except for the rattling window seal, nothing is wrong with my system. I think it's perfect. What aiming the woofers and equalizing the pathlengths of the tweeters will give me is that elusive last 5% of perfection that you're always chasing. There's perfect and then there's *PERFECT*. I want the latter.

Oh, and no I haven't heard them in the enclosures yet. Before the enclosure gets installed, I will tune it too. If it needs fill I'll stuff it. If it's too large, I can fill in a section.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Ensolite, let me introduce my door panel. Door panel, this is Ensolite. I predict a long and fruitful union. 

I'm going to do this to all my interior panels. The doors can only take 1/4" Ensolite, but I can put 1/2" Volara on the rear panels and maybe even more. I'll need to see how much clearance I have. 









I also picked up some polystyrene foam for the floor of the trunk. The stuff is only $9 for a 4x8' sheet and it's 1/2" thick. I don't know if I can use it anywhere else. Maybe on the bottom of the floorboards or I may double it up on the trunk for a full 1" layer (noisy exhaust). Gotta love that pink panther!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

15 hours is a good start at tuning. I really think you should have built test enclosures first before undertaking this. I've heard quite a few cars including my own that had door mounted midbasses that never had problems rattling the doors. I still say that tuning would get you further faster than building some enclosures that you have no idea how they will sound in the car.

A "tighter" response would come from tuning. Maybe raise the XO point on your subs and midbasses.

I hate to break it to you, but getting PLDs between tweeters is far less important than where the midranges are located.

If you were really going after the later, you would spend more time getting the PLDs on the mids minimized rather than the tweeters.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

The rear panel with 1/2" Volara. The Volara is a little stiffer than Ensolite. It won't work well with large curves.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

According to the Morel site, you have enough volume in those panels to port the 6s. That might be a fun thing to do. A 2" round by 6" long port would do it.

Well, almost...I thought you were getting 13.5 L in there. That would work ported if you could do that.

I probably would go for the smaller of the 2 sealed enclosures they recommend and EQ out the bump.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> According to the Morel site, you have enough volume in those panels to port the 6s. That might be a fun thing to do. A 2" round by 6" long port would do it.
> 
> Well, almost...I thought you were getting 13.5 L in there. That would work ported if you could do that.
> 
> I probably would go for the smaller of the 2 sealed enclosures they recommend and EQ out the bump.


I thought about it, but I couldn't really get the volume to go ported. When I graph the volume I do have, I don't like the results. I'm still shooting for around 12L; I think that's workable.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Today went to Home depot- went and looked for some Solarflex 289; They had it.. But they were selling like a 5 gallon bucket for 75 bucks.. Seriously no one needs that much..
I looked at the alternatives there and after about 10 minutes i gave up.
Went a few blocks down and checked out Lowes..
Sure be it, they had a simliar product--Basically ROOF GAURD. 19.99 + tax. Same Estomeric compound. But a little different.
Got home fairly late but i was up to the challenge. And finally after a crapload of time i completed only 3 layers of this stuff. I must say i'm VERY IMPRESSED. I layered it on top of my already existing 2-3 layered Damp pro outer Panel, And 2 layered inner. I've done the tap tests repeatedly and could not believe the results. My cheap old toyota didn't even feel right. I tapped it and it felt as if i was literally knocking on a piece of steel beam. So much integrity too in the way my door shuts.
I'm probably going to add a few more layers of this Roof Guard on top of the already existing layers.. Then to top that off i have some Overkill :].

More updates to come. Worth the money.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

btw. This stuff pretty much reminds me White out.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

theRESONANCE said:


> They had it.. But they were selling like a 5 gallon bucket for 75 bucks.. Seriously no one needs that much.


Heh! I've already used 3 gallons and I bought 2 more. I might need one more for good measure.

This stuff really does work. It's great for sealing in my peel and seal mess and also for adding extra damping to my Dynamat. I used it on the outer skin of my doors with no butyl mat and after 4 layers, it almost sounds like the panel that does have mat on it.

It's also VERY strong when cured. I was removing a support beam that had been painted with Solarflex on one corner and I had to yank the guts out of it to get it to come off. Considering that I spent $30 for one tiny quart of Spectrum, I'd say this is the ultimate bargain.

I forgot to mention that there is Solarflex SF (southern formula). This is the one I got for its added heat tolerance.


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

Mooble said:


> I also picked up some polystyrene foam for the floor of the trunk. The stuff is only $9 for a 4x8' sheet and it's 1/2" thick. I don't know if I can use it anywhere else. Maybe on the bottom of the floorboards or I may double it up on the trunk for a full 1" layer (noisy exhaust). Gotta love that pink panther!


How are you gonna keep that stuff from squeeking when it vibrates against the trunk floor?


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

how would you compare it to spectrum?

i think i may just go buy some right now lol!

http://www.alliedbuilding.com/products/productDetail.asp?ProductID=18380620

\that place has the premium coating if i am looking at the same stuff


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## fujio001 (Jul 15, 2006)

I was thinking about the Solarflex as well. I did some initial experiments and it does require a bit of time for it to dry. It is more like thick latex paint (and smells like it). I have worked with spectrum in the past and it is a bit thicker. After the solarflex dries, it is not very dense but it is fairly stretchable. It can be stretched about 50% when a dried piece is in your hand prior to ripping. I am still a bit concerned about the adhesion properties but the pan I used seems to have good adhesion. Fortunately my aunt had a whole bunch left over probably about 5 gallons.

Since it is not as dense, if it can really stop vibration well, it can be used well in a Yaris like mine where weight is pretty important. 

Let's keep each other informed about our progress so we can build up some composite info for the rest of the guys. Who knows, maybe we have stumbled across a good spectrum alternative!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Premium Solarflex is denser. It's also gray. Hmmm... I wish I could have found it. Remember that these are not mass loaders. They don't rely on mass the way mats do.

I have no doubts about its adhesion properties. Believe me, this stuff sticks--even to plastic (though not as well). It is also chemically resistant. I had no problem attaching foam to it with contact cement. The cement didn't react with it in any way whereas it melted the pink foam I was painting on.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

txbonds said:


> How are you gonna keep that stuff from squeeking when it vibrates against the trunk floor?


Already thought of that.  I'll put down a layer of Ensolite underneath it. Ensolite is very soft and doesn't squeak. If it's still a problem, I'll pick up some felt remnants from the fabric store for $5.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> how would you compare it to spectrum?
> 
> i think i may just go buy some right now lol!


Er, I'll leave that for you to decide on your own.  Second Skin makes great products. I highly recommend everything they make. I'll just say this: $21 a gallon! I'm not a cheap bastard, but to do this with Spectrum would be $300.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Ensolite and sail panels: BFF!









The other rear panel with 1/2" Volara. You can see the indentation from the spare tire because it used to be in my trunk.









I promise I'm going to work on the enclosures again soon.  I'm going to go buy some cheap resin to do the fleece layer before I hit it with the woven mat.

This mat is amazing. 2 yards of it must weight about 6 lbs. 









The good stuff:


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Wow mooble.. you are insane how can you even do that much !


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

theRESONANCE said:


> Wow mooble.. you are insane how can you even do that much !


This answers your question, oui? 

















I seriously get snow blind when working in the car. I should be using sunglasses. I don't think I would be this brave with a new car, but hey, this car has 172k miles on it. What am I going to do, hurt the resale value?


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

^^^ LOL.
Think about it Mooble, I put in 3 layers.. BARELY used 1/4 of my .90 gallon can.
And you're thinking on loading all out - 5 gallons....
Last night i tapped it and was amazed.
Today i'm letting it air out and cure.. this stuff is seriously baking on better and better. Its even more solid than last night. I'm thinking on doing my entire trunk + firewall/Wheel humps.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

If I can ever find it, I might use HE1900, Henry's automotive coating on the underside of the wheel wells. One gallon would be more than enough to coat them.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I have some preliminary results. 

Wow! (see caveat) This stuff does an amazing job at blocking/absorbing low frequencies. Even with nothing but bare metal in my car, my exhaust is as quiet as the car was with a full interior, keeping in mind that I had already deadened the entire rear of the car and had foam everywhere. Those are some impressive results! I am very pleased so far. 

Caveat: If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: deadeners are not meant for noise reduction. My car is fully deadened and now has probably 60 mils of elastomeric compound on every piece of sheetmetal I can find and the tire roar is still deafening at highway speeds. Deadeners, be they butyl pads or liquid compounds, DO NOTHING for higher frequencies. That is where foam and vinyl or lead barriers come in.

I am now planning to add a second layer of foam on my trim panels because I realize just how vital it is. I feel sorry for those who spend (waste) $500 on butyl pads and then put a tiny 1/4" foam pad on top. They are missing the most critical part of noise reduction. I also have some thick acoustic rubber pad coming which should do an even better job of blocking soundwaves.

I'll keep you updated...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

*FAIL*

I guess it's not too bad, except that I forgot that I needed to trim 1/4" off some of the ribs to get the shape right. You can see one of them bulging up. I want the enclosure to follow the shape of the door and then gently widen. At least the other side will be simple since it's just the reverse and I'll have templates for everything.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Maybe its the pictures.. but from the angle i am seeing from. They dont look bad at all. It looks pretty damn hard.



Mooble said:


> If I can ever find it, I might use HE1900, Henry's automotive coating on the underside of the wheel wells. One gallon would be more than enough to coat them.


Just what i was planning on doing !
except the only wheel well liners i can find are made from bondo.
5 bucks a can spray.

wow, some reason i missed your install pics. Now i'm really confused how you were able to accomplish that much liquid in there. i was already getting fed up with putting 3 coats on my doors and my hands turning pure white... You really really REALLY take dedication to a whole different level...
ahhh boy, the things we do for GOOD SOUND !
its inspiring, because i know how much that layer of snow white really does.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

As long as you don't give up, and you learn from mistakes, there is no fail.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

theRESONANCE said:


> wow, some reason i missed your install pics. Now i'm really confused how you were able to accomplish that much liquid in there. i was already getting fed up with putting 3 coats on my doors and my hands turning pure white... You really really REALLY take dedication to a whole different level...


It's easy if you take a week to do it. When I come home from work I put a thick layer on and then let it dry overnight. On my days off I do it when I wake up and then again around 5:00. I've been doing it in stages too. I only paint maybe 6 sqft at a time. The only things left to coat now are the driver's door and trim panel and the floorboards.

Oh yeah, I am white all over. I take a Scotchbrite pad to my hands when I finish.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

Mooble said:


> It's easy if you take a week to do it. When I come home from work I put a thick layer on and then let it dry overnight. On my days off I do it when I wake up and then again around 5:00. I've been doing it in stages too. I only paint maybe 6 sqft at a time. The only things left to coat now are the driver's door and trim panel and the floorboards.
> 
> Oh yeah, I am white all over. I take a Scotchbrite pad to my hands when I finish.


that is why you wear rubber gloves!!!
lol


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

Dang, look what you guys gone done! I just bought a 5gal bucket of solarflex 287 sf because of this thread. I hope it'll be $75 well spent.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Nice job on the door so far. Looking forward to seeing your ongoing progress. I'll be doing something very similar in the spring. Sick of trying to make a speaker mounted to a tin can sound good.

After seeing what Durwood did with a pair of 10's mounted in enclosures bolted to his doors I was sold on the idea.

Ge0


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Things are moving along. I coated the roof with Solarflex, but it wasn't of that much use since I could barely reach maybe 2 sq ft of the actual roof panels. The rest of it is behind the sunroof. I put 1/8" Volara on the headliner and reinstalled it along with the A-pillar panels so now my car is partially reassembled. 










I received a package from UPS today. Inside was this: 25' of Audiomute Peacemaker. http://www.audimutesoundproofing.co...roofing-a-room-how-to-soundproof-a-floor.aspx









This roll weighs 18 lbs. I thought I would use it on the headliner, but it weighs so much it would have made the flimsy headliner sag. Now I guess I will just glue it to the back of the foam in the doors and in the rear fenders as well as putting it on the floors and rear seat. It's just chopped up rubber, but it should go a LONG way towards trapping soundwaves inside the foam to be dissipated. Basically I am creating my own Dynaliner/Luxury Liner with it.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

does that stuff work well?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> does that stuff work well?


We're gonna find out. I don't like the fact that it's chopped up rubber rather than one continuous layer. Maybe it will work better that way. Who knows. My floorboards will be 60 mils Solarflex-> 1/2" Volara-> 2mm Audiomute. I'm also going to wrap the transmission tunnel in Audiomute.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Caveat: If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: deadeners are not meant for noise reduction. My car is fully deadened and now has probably 60 mils of elastomeric compound on every piece of sheetmetal I can find and the tire roar is still deafening at highway speeds. Deadeners, be they butyl pads or liquid compounds, DO NOTHING for higher frequencies. That is where foam and vinyl or lead barriers come in.




Keep in mind that you can expect greater performance out of a barrier like that rubber roll sheeting...
1) If it's decoupled from the substrate with as thick of a closed cell foam or equivalent as tollerable.
2) The spring-mass system is as limp and flexable as possible (think lead).
3) There are no flanking paths, open seams or holes in the barrrier.

Love the work and realizations you've posted so far. Keep it up, mang!


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Wow. Another update...
Put another 3 layers on my door. * iwas bored  LOL*
also put 4 layers on trunk lid.
I'm looking at the new audimute roll... How is it going to be applied ?

I'm pretty interested.. I dont have much damp pro left to do my trunk.. so maybe i could do the same to it.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

we should figure out how to integrate this into our builds..
http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/sound-absorber-soundproof-blanket.aspx

Edit : Here are some lab reports of the product..
I'm not sure how to read them and evaluate them correctly.. maybe somebody else can :]
http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/images/pdf/AudiMuteAcousticalTestReport.pdf

If these are effective.. Maybe we could just lay down sheets under the carpet/trunk... haha.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

theRESONANCE said:


> Edit : Here are some lab reports of the product..
> I'm not sure how to read them and evaluate them correctly.. maybe somebody else can :]
> http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/images/pdf/AudiMuteAcousticalTestReport.pdf
> 
> If these are effective.. Maybe we could just lay down sheets under the carpet/trunk... haha.


At .2 lbs/sqft that's a relatively poor blocker for how thick it is. Notice it's tested for absorption, not refraction (or transmission loss). Most deadening mats are almost twice as massive per unit area. 

But what about "road noise?" Most road noise is centered within an octave or two of 200 hz. The absorbtion coefficient is .12 at 200 hz; one octave down it's .04, one up it's .49. So, for really agressive low freq noise, it will allow 94% of the sound through. It really doesn't get good until about 1k where absorption is near 100%.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

What I'm finding is that there isn't one solution to sound deadening. It takes 3 or 4 layers to truly tackle the entire frequency range of road noise.

The Audiomute may be a bust, but I'll give it a shot. It's made more for houses where low frequencies aren't much of a problem. The Solarflex and deadening, both stock and what I added, have done an amazing job with the low frequencies. What I need help with is tire noise which is a much higher frequency. That's where I hope the Audiomute will come in handy. I considered lead, but it's not very practical. You can find lead flashing in pretty wide sheets, but trying to make a seamless barrier with that is laughable. Lead tape is another alternative I suppose if not for the cost.

The gap rule is true of everything except deadening mat. I think that is why my earlier attempt at noise reduction was so disappointing. The key seems to be a near perfect barrier of foam, solarflex, or whatever you are using. If you leave gaps, you lose a huge amount of effectiveness. I am trying to leave as few gaps as possible.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

theRESONANCE said:


> I dont have much damp pro left to do my trunk.. so maybe i could do the same to it.


It's not really for the same purpose. I don't think the Audiomute would have nearly the same capacity to deaden as a butyl mat. I think the results would be disappointing. Additionally, you would have to use massive amounts of glue to get the same adhesion.

The purpose of the Audiomute is to act as a sound barrier (at least I'm hoping). Like a thick vinyl layer, this should sit on top of the foam so that whatever sound makes it through the foam is reflected off the Audiomute and kicked back into the foam to be further dissipated. That's the goal anyway.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> But what about "road noise?" Most road noise is centered within an octave or two of 200 hz. The absorbtion coefficient is .12 at 200 hz; one octave down it's .04, one up it's .49. So, for really agressive low freq noise, it will allow 94% of the sound through. It really doesn't get good until about 1k where absorption is near 100%.


Those tests are for the blanket though. I couldn't find any tests for the rubber pad. The numbers are pretty impressive though. Compare those to Dynamat Extremeliner which I would say is one of the best noise barriers you can buy--and also freakishly expensive (I couldn't find any tests for SS Luxury Liner).

Extremeliner:
Sound Absorption Coefficients (Using Reverberation Room Method -ASTM C423-84a and E-795-83 - Mounting A): 
0.09 @ 125 Hz 
0.11 @ 250 Hz 
0.18 @ 500 Hz 
0.24 @ 1000 Hz 
0.43 @ 2000 Hz 
0.70 @ 4000 Hz

Compare those to 1/2" Dynaliner (closed cell foam)
0.18 @ 125 Hz 
0.22 @ 250 Hz 
0.51 @ 500 Hz 
1.00 @ 750 Hz 
1.19 @ 1 kHz 
1.00 @ 1.5 kHz 
1.00 @ 2 kHz 
1.10 @ 3 kHz 
1.20 @ 4 kHz 

Looking at those figures, I'm not sure why you would ever use Extremeliner. Foam is MUCH more effective across the entire spectrum. The one benefit of the vinyl or rubber barrier is that it's only 2mm thick. I can't really put a full inch of foam on my floorboards.

Of course I have no tests to prove this, but I would say the Solarflex is very effective at frequencies below 200hz, and not much above that. The way it quieted my exhaust even with nothing but bare metal on the inside was amazing. It had to be a much higher coefficient than either of those Dynamat products.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> The Audiomute may be a bust, but I'll give it a shot. It's made more for houses where low frequencies aren't much of a problem. The Solarflex and deadening, both stock and what I added, have done an amazing job with the low frequencies. What I need help with is tire noise which is a much higher frequency. That's where I hope the Audiomute will come in handy. I considered lead, but it's not very practical. You can find lead flashing in pretty wide sheets, but trying to make a seamless barrier with that is laughable. Lead tape is another alternative I suppose if not for the cost.


You got 50 sqft, right? Well then that's 18 lbs/50 sqft = .36 lbs/sqft. Each 2mm layer has an STC of 11. You're typical MLV goes for about 1 lb/sqft and is just over 6mm thick. So, if you triple layered it, then you'd be right around MLV; 1 lb/sq ft with and STC of about 24. 

Mass law governs block-ability and it states that when you double the mass of the barrier, you get another 6 dB of TL. This is why you cannot go from 11 to 33 STC with three layers of the product. In reality, there is nothing inherently special about the type of mass layer used as far as Mass Law is concerned - 1 lb/sqft is 1 lb/sqft - doesn't matter if you use lead, recycled rubber, aluminum, or Crisco. 

Dynamat Extremeliner is a decoupled barrier with a lead septum and some film-faced OCF on the top. Why they show NRC values for that vs STC is beyond me. It sucks as an absorptive product just like Dynaliner. Plus, they want $33.33 per square foot for that? **** that...that's insane! I made the identical product (plus some of my own little tricks) for my entire firewall for way less than the price of 1 sqft of that. 

You have everything in your possession already to not only make re-create Extremeliner, but out-perform it. The substrate is already treated for damping. Next up is a layer of the Volera which should really be glued to the rubber mat. Voila, decoupled barrier. No need to glue down unless it's on a vertical surface. Then your cotton patting goes on top of that. Either lay it down or glue it, doesn't matter. If you want to take the extra step like Dynamat did, then get some cheap mylar and glue that to the top of it. 

No need for a decoupled barrier on the roof unless you have need to block sound coming from above you. Sure every little bit helps, but the roof is a large flat panel that should be treated with CLD mat or your liquid. 

OCF is considered a broad-band absorber. I really has no place in a decoupled barrier for a car as it takes up water and cannot support the weight of the mass layer on top. This is why something like LLP uses a PVC-based CCF for the decoupler. Not only that, but broad-band absorbers work better away from the noise source then right next to it.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I didn't get much done today, but it sure did take a long time. I got the trunk back together again. I had to cut a stronger false floor because my 120lbs enclosure was making the old one sag. This one is birch ply. I've decided not to do much to quiet the trunk. Why bother? Instead I will put my efforts into sealing off the trunk from the cabin. That's much easier. The subs will be forward firing and I'll build a baffle around the enclosure sealing off the trunk from the cabin. I already sealed off the package shelf with foam.

I made the floor in two pieces so I could get the spare tire out without having to remove the enclosure. I glued the foam insulation directly to the ply so there is no chance of rubbing. 










Side shot


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

looking good!

are you going to go with another half board for amps and stuff?

also are you going to carpet them?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> looking good!
> 
> are you going to go with another half board for amps and stuff?
> 
> also are you going to carpet them?


Yeah, the amp board will attach to the back of the enclosure and seal off the front of the trunk. The amps will be vertical on it. It will be carpeted.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Holy crap! I just found an unbelievable bargain. The key is to find products made from foam. For instance, you can get a torn wetsuit at Goodwill for $5. That's at least 8 sq ft of neoprene. You can get camping mats for $5 too.

Here is the best bargain of all!!! Surplus Army Ensolite sleeping pads--$8 and free shipping!!! I picked up 4 of them. You realize that is 84 square feet of Ensolite for $32!!! it is probably 1/2" thick too! I am going to go wicked crazy with the foam now. I'm gonna give everything 3 layers.

http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/products_details.asp?SKU=SBPADOD&ST=2


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I just ordered 3 more sleeping pads. Ha ha ha! I'm going to put a full inch of Ensolite on the floorboards with the Audiomute glued on top. I'll also glue a full inch of it in the doors and in the fenders. I might put two inches in the trunk.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Here we have a pre-foamed door. I can see that I'll need to scrape some of that Solarflex off the window guide now. I'm glad I took the picture.









Here we have 1/2" of Volara. The beams made this job really easy by keeping the foam in place.









Not to be outdone, I added another 1/2" to the central section. I can't really put any more down below without blocking the rain holes and I can't put anymore on top or I'm afraid it will interfere with the window.








Yes, some will call me crazy--and it's probably true after the glue fumes I just inhaled, but I like to call it obsessed. That's 1" of foam in my doors. I will take the car out tonight and see how much foam alone has made a difference in road noise.

Empty rear fender









The same view now with 1/2 Volara









Outside the fender, cabin view.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

i can't wait for the results..


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

wow...this is deadening to the next level. This thread went from a door panel build to an entire car deadening session.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

drocpsu said:


> wow...this is deadening to the next level. This thread went from a door panel build to an entire car deadening session.


Tell me about it!  

I'm going to do a test fitting of the enclosure today. If it all matches up like I want on the door, I'm going to make the other one and glass up the fleece this weekend.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

To me it seems you could mix some type of aggregate into the solarflex to make it go on thicker and be a better deadener. What about glass spheres, or something like this? 

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=46&PHPSESSID=20081003131755185503949

I dont know, it just seems that this solarflex is a great product, but with an additive we could turn it easily into a product totally suited for our purposes. Ground rubber? Metallic powder/flakes/scraps?


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

wow so thats basically a hardener ? ..
Make my solarflex into a sludge ? HAHA
Man.. that would be a lot easier to apply..


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

theRESONANCE said:


> wow so thats basically a hardener ? ..
> Make my solarflex into a sludge ? HAHA
> Man.. that would be a lot easier to apply..


I have some Sludge activator. I added it to the Solarflex as a test. Let's just say it works.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Well, I didn't get to the enclosures today. I had to drive to the other side of town to get some cotton batting.

I did add a layer of the 2mm Audimute to the doors. All I can say is WOW! The key is in the application (you need to put it on top of a foam layer), but I swear it feels like I added 20 lbs to the door when all I did was add maybe 1 pound of Audimute. It takes deadening to a whole new level. I'm praying that this stuff stays on the doors. Let's hope the Dap contact cement is good stuff!










I also packed about an inch of cotton batting in the read fenders. This stuff also does an amazing job absorbing sound. I can't wait until this is all finished so I can hear the difference.


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

Where did you get the 2mm rubber and the cotton batting?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

txbonds said:


> Where did you get the 2mm rubber and the cotton batting?


The rubber is sold under the brand name Audimute Peacemaker. At $48 for 50 sq ft, it wasn't cheap, but it was just a little more than any old vinyl barrier. Considering what a change it made in the door, I'd say it's worth it. I can't wait to hear what a change it makes on the floorboards.

The cotton batting came from a local "green" building supply place on the other freaking side of town--3/8" foil backed 4'x6' roll for $20.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

It's really staggering how long such simple tasks take. It took me 1.5 hours just to cover the door and rear trim panel in cotton batting. No wonder this entire project is going to take a month.

On the doors there must be about 50 mils Solarflex, 1/4" Ensolite, and 3/8" batting










Rear panels have maybe 30 mils Solarflex, 1/2" Volara, and 3/8" batting.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Do we know what the sludge activator is??? IF we could figure this out we would have ONE AMAZING DISCOVERY on our hands!!!! Have you tried mixing a little bit of the solarflex with polyester resin hardener? Any other hardeners you may have? Using the foam in between the door and rubber sheets is a very very good thing, you created an airspace with the foam/cotton and then added the barrier with the rubber blocks, which has some name that escapes me right now. Anyways, this is a very solid way to kill sound and noise.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

all the home depots around me only have 5 gal containers so it looks like that is what i am doing lol


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Sadly I have not had much luck with the door enclosures. The problem is that the door is very uneven. I tried to cut several layers out of the plywood to make it lay flat, but nothing seems to be working. My only alternative is to make it out of foam and then glass over the foam, but the problem would be how to attach it to the door. It would be fairly heavy and needs to secure properly.

For the time being, I'm giving up on the enclosures. I guess this has become the sound absorption thread. I can always start up again later. This project has become too big for me to be working on both things. Once I get my car back together again and quiet, then I'll worry about enclosures.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I really needed to check the clearance on the real quarter light panels to make sure this would work. Fortunately I was able to fit just barely the 1/4" ensolite with 3/8" batting on top. The great thing is that they will never rattle or vibrate with the cotton batting providing pressure against the panel.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I LOVE this stuff!

I put down a 1/4" layer of Volara with some of the Audimute on top. With the car running, I can feel this stuff vibrating like mad. It's taking the energy of the exhaust rumbling and dissipating it rather than transferring it as noise. I think I might use another layer and I will definitely go much further to cover the entire footwell area. It's a good start though.


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

Very interested in the SolarFlex. Currently I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to deaden my trunk and from a cost and weight standpoint this is very appealing. 

Weight is a factor on my install because I have a Honda Civic Si, and I'm very happy with the stock handling and performance, so I'm trying to keep the weight added to a minimum... Adding 5 or 6 lbs with the Solarflex versus 20ish lbs of butyl mat means that I can afford to do more deadening rather than targetting specific areas like just the doors and trunk.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Obsessed? Yes, I am! 

I basically tubbed out the cabin with a layer 1/4" foam and the Audimute on top. I tried to overlap everything and leave as few seams as possible. I think that's the key. Even with no interior pieces or carpet (and the stock carpet had a full 1/2" of bonded cotton under it) it's still almost as quiet now as it was with a full interior. The layering system makes a dramatic difference. 










I just picked up an additional 72 sq ft of cotton batting today. That's next on the list. I think 60dB cruising might just be a realistic goal.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

looking good
ps what kinda car is that?


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

ggk said:


> looking good
> ps what kinda car is that?


Honda Prelude


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Too much time on my hands...

I decided to add the cotton batting to the center console also. My exhaust is right underneath it so every bit of sound absorption helps. More importantly, it prevents rattles and squeaks. I'm utterly amazed how quiet my car is now when going over bumps. There is not a squeak or rattle anywhere. All of the interior trim pieces will have batting on them and felt at the seams. My car is almost 12 years old, but it's going to feel as solid as an S-Class Mercedes when this is finished.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

SUCCESS!!! (well sort of)

I spent about 7 hours today getting the front carpet, seats, and trim panels installed and routing the wires again. I went for a drive and I was amazed. It feels like a completely new car. It can't be any more solid, but it sure feels that way. When I hit a bump or pothole, there is hardly any noise. 

There is still a lot of road noise and exhaust coming from the rear, but I haven't worked on the trunk yet. That's the next goal. If it sounds as good as the front, this will be an amazingly quiet car. My results from the front are definitely encouraging.


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## LDW3RD (Jun 11, 2006)

Awesome work!
I appreciate your dedication and information.
Keep up the GW!


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## oneiztoomany (Oct 1, 2007)

got pics of the exterior of your ride?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)




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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I found this old pic. This was my peel and seal job. The interior panels are fine, but anything exposed to the sun got hot and ran.









Don't use peel and seal in the South!


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

I really want to know more about the sludge activator. any pics of it? Whats its consistency and mix ratio?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

It's just a milky liquid, consistency of well, milk. It's small, maybe 4 oz bottle. One bottle is good for a gallon.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

so it didnt quite turn in to spectrum sludge when you mixed it to the point you needed a spatula?


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## oneiztoomany (Oct 1, 2007)

Mooble said:


>


sweet!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> so it didnt quite turn in to spectrum sludge when you mixed it to the point you needed a spatula?


Ohh, no, I was referring to the activator specifically. When mixed it turned into a putty like consistency. I only tried a little bit though.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

I know the solarflex is a acrylic latex based product. They make thickening agents to turn liquid latex into "peanut butter" consistencies, one product is called V-thix. Lots of roofing coatings are meant to be put on as thick as 1/2" per coat, but those are usually asphalt based and would stick horribly. I really want to figure out a good thickening agent for this stuff! Maybe....elmers glue?


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

hey why dont you just buy the bottle from secondskin?
it is like 10 bucks


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

I've been researching liquid sound deadeners a lot recently, if you mix solarflex with micro glass spheres this stuff will and does make a killer sound deadener. People have and do it. It's very very similar to lizard skin brand stuff, except thiers is actually based off a latex paint. I'm hopefully going to do this soon, i need to get some cash first.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

elv, where do you get these micro glass spheres ?
i just bought another bucket of elastomeric guard.. but this time its for automobiles. specifically made for rv's and such.

Also, i remembered that you put up a post about cutting baffle rings. Think you could do some for me for some bucks ?.. *maybe several actually*


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## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/alternative-lizard-skin-103610.html?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

You could definitely add glass spheres to this.

When I add Solarflex to my final door, I will mix it with some activator so I can putty it on instead of waiting for 4 coats to dry. I'll take some pics of its consistency once activated.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Exactly like that post. When researching it, the idea of micro glass spheres in paint actually comes from NASA development in 2003...pretty sweet! Lots of people market it as "ceramic insulating paint" and other names, but really it all comes back to being simple paint mixed with this stuff. There are some suggestions on that hotrodders forum about where to buy, personally I am going to run by TAP plastics this afternoon since it's nearby and see how much it is there since i know they carry it.

Honestly, i'm not the guy to make baffles for you. I'm really no good at wood working and still figuring out how to do everything. That post about my way to make them DOES work, but really somebody with good router skills could make one that fits MUCH MUCH better. The way i described for making them works great for $5 and if you dont have a router or good woodworking skills, but if you were to buy them from somebody i wouldnt feel right being the one to make them.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

haha. understood elvisjer 
We should meet up sometime so you could show me your killer system.

keep me updated on how much Taps has the ceramic micro spheres for. Tomorrow i'll be stripping my interior to line it up regardless.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

i want to know too!
the spheres sound like a good idea.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Well my car is gutted right now as i'm trying to re-wire my entire system while re-locating my amps to the trunk instead of one false floor in the passenger foot area, one under the drivers seat, and one in the trunk. 

I didn't know anyone else was from seattle! When im done with my re-wire its a deal! Im still a N00b at DIYMA but im sure we can learn from eachother! 

TAP sells them VERY expensive, glass spheres that is. They want $9 for 4oz, i know online you can get a gallon for under $20! Im going to go that route. Im thinking a 50/50 mix of glass spheres to solarflex, or even 70glass/30solar would be best. Honestly, whatever makes it the right consitencey. TAP has some other additives that say add to the thickness that i may try...ill keep you updated.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

haha, Dont worry. i'm proabably the biggest noob here.
Pretty much my first 'true' system.. however you would call it..
I'm driving my car gutted too. People are still going.. ' wtf is up with your doors ? '

I dont know, i'm gutting my carpets tomorrow as i've mentioned before. Just want to get it over with. I'd wait to purchase some glass spheres but i'm far too impatient at this stage; Is the thickness added very significant ? 
I could always buy another gallon for 20 bucks and re apply it to my entire interior o.o.

I also noticed something strange... Maybe its just me. Lately its been droppin to around 50º's or so in the morning.. and i tend to crank up my heater. Few days ago i did just that when i drove to school in the morning. Hopped out the car and simply went to class.
The temperature remained about the same throughout the day and when i got out of class and back into my car, it was still warm o.o..
like i said, proably was all in my head. But i swear, something with damplifier + roof guard makes toyotas pure luxury.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Well you're literally adding insulation, so i don't see why it wouldn't keep it more warm! For 6 or so hours? Maybe...not my field there  Where do you go to school? (said in a creepy old man voice) Im at Seattle Pacific University


I think im going to order glass spheres soon but i already have it gutted and really would like to get her back together so it will be a while before i have the chance to do thick coatings. It should thicken it up quite a bit, it can take it to "peanut butter" consistency if you use enough. Also ive seen Cab-O-Sil used for thickening and apparently it will make drying time faster too. THe microspheres actually help with sound deadening besides making it thicker because you're adding in lots and lots of small sealed air bubbles...if i understand correctly. Now someone can post thier "scientific" data making themselves look smart.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

elvisjer said:


> THe microspheres actually help with sound deadening besides making it thicker because you're adding in lots and lots of small sealed air bubbles...if i understand correctly. Now someone can post thier "scientific" data making themselves look smart.


Maybe you can post your "scientific data" to support that assertion?

How can we make a liquid deadener more effective by adding more air? Thus making the weight/surface area less? How does this increase the ability of the product to convert _vibration _to heat? Just some questions. 

Products with ceramic microspheres are considerably lighter than their liquid deadener counterparts. A gallon of VB-1x, for example, is ~15 lbs and a gallon of Thermaguard is about ~10 lbs (50% lighter by volume).

Nice app of that rubber over the CCF, Mooble. Wish I could get that thick of a decoupler between my skin and the window. Now THAT's a perfect place for air.


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

The microspheres are an interesting twist.

To me the advantages of deadening are somewhat outweighed by the major disadvantages which is the added weight. Don't get me wrong... I deadened my doors the other weekend and without installing anything else and putting my stock speakers back into the car, the improvement in SQ was simply amazing. I love it. I want to do more, but I drive a performance car and I love the stock performance of it, and I want to maintain it, but every pound I add to car does subtract from the performance. 

I read through the entire 13 pages of the hot-rod thread, and a lot of them reported that their panels had acquired a nice "thunk". I for one am very interested in hearing more on the "science" involved here... because it's very attractive to have a lightweight solution which gets me better sound... without sacrificing the performance of my car.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Foxpro likes to follow me around and tell me i'm wrong, but im still yet to hear him say he does not in fact, eat babies. 

Anyways, i have absolutely no scientific proof on the microspheres being added to the mix, but from what i've read it seems that it makes it some type of decoupler or whatever it's called, adding in microspheres will make the end product have much more of an impact resistance which seems to mean that it would therefor have less flexing. When talking to a guy at TAP plastics (i don't know if he had any idea of truth behind this) he said that adding in microspheres as opposed to other thickening products they have is good acoistically because since it's being used in an elastromeric compound, the glass spheres add a second resonant frequency, so now the barrier will absorb a broader range. If you just want to make it thicker and heavier, adding Cab-0-sil is the way to go. It will make the end result much harder though, and you can always mix microspheres and cab-o-sil


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

elvisjer said:


> Foxpro likes to follow me around and tell me i'm wrong, but im still yet to hear him say he does not in fact, eat babies.
> 
> Anyways, i have absolutely no scientific proof on the microspheres being added to the mix, but from what i've read it seems that it makes it some type of decoupler or whatever it's called, adding in microspheres will make the end product have much more of an impact resistance which seems to mean that it would therefor have less flexing. When talking to a guy at TAP plastics (i don't know if he had any idea of truth behind this) he said that adding in microspheres as opposed to other thickening products they have is good acoistically because since it's being used in an elastromeric compound, the glass spheres add a second resonant frequency, so now the barrier will absorb a broader range. If you just want to make it thicker and heavier, adding Cab-0-sil is the way to go. It will make the end result much harder though, and you can always mix microspheres and cab-o-sil


I only eat babies if they are marinated first.

Cool. Good info. Do you know if an elastomeric compound can damp better than a true viscoelastic polymer over a greater temperature range? Obviously these heat control liquids have a much better R-factor heat rating, but I'm wondering if they can still damp as well through the changing climate of the seasons.


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

elvisjer said:


> Foxpro likes to follow me around and tell me i'm wrong, but im still yet to hear him say he does not in fact, eat babies.
> 
> Anyways, i have absolutely no scientific proof on the microspheres being added to the mix, but from what i've read it seems that it makes it some type of decoupler or whatever it's called, adding in microspheres will make the end product have much more of an impact resistance which seems to mean that it would therefor have less flexing. When talking to a guy at TAP plastics (i don't know if he had any idea of truth behind this) he said that adding in microspheres as opposed to other thickening products they have is good acoistically because since it's being used in an elastromeric compound, the glass spheres add a second resonant frequency, so now the barrier will absorb a broader range. If you just want to make it thicker and heavier, adding Cab-0-sil is the way to go. It will make the end result much harder though, and you can always mix microspheres and cab-o-sil


That sounds good to me... especially absorbing a broader range. That's what I was thinking is that it wouldn't necessarily be as good of a deadener but the air would make it more of an absorber. My physics is very rusty and I'm still very much a newb to acoustics.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm kinda pissed right now! 

I spent probably 20 hours just in the trunk applying Solarflex followed by 1/4" Volara with Audimute on top and 3/8" Bonded Logic batting over just about everything. I went for a drive and while the noise is reduced, the exhaust is still much to loud for my taste. It's much better, but I damn sure expected better results for 20 hours worth of labor. Maybe I should have used 1/2" Volara to add more air. Well I did use 1/2" in some places. 

I guess it's back to my original plan to completely seal off the trunk from the cabin. I will add two layers of 3/8" batting to the package shelf after I already sealed all the holes with silicone and foam. I will also put a baffle around the sub enclosure to seal the pass-through behind the seat. If that doesn't drop the exhaust noise, nothing will. 

I also need a new gasket between my header backpipe and the exhaust. I may have some noise coming in there. 

Completely covered the trunk floor and the shock towers with Audimute on top of Volara.









Completely wrapped the shock towers in batting. I also added a sheet of it under the carpet.









Added batting to the rear wall of the trunk. Also built a stronger false floor.









Amazingly it went back together, although I had to trim some of the panel to make up for the higher floor.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Maybe I should have used 1/2" Volara to add more air. Well I did use 1/2" in some places.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=565741&postcount=85

This is actually a very good thread in the lessons learned in the battle against noise you don't want in your car. It's going to fight like hell to get in, so be prepared mentally for it.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Fighting exhaust tones is the worst! I would VERY MUCH reccomend looking for ANY leaks coming through ANYWHERE except the rear of the pipe. I spent lots of time and money deadening my cruiser, and then realized that there was a small few holes before the muffler, TINY holes and once i sealed those it made a dramatic difference. Also, look for any parts where the interior clips into the floorpan and makes a leak where sound can enter the car. Im pretty sure that the only way to have a loud muffler outside and not on the inside is too have a quiet muffler and convince people it's loud.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> This is actually a very good threa...ll probably put the stock exhaust back on. :(


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Maybe the barrier needs more air underneath it.


I think you need more mass (barrier layer). That's why I directed you back to my previous post. If you want to get that STC up, then you need to work on the mass of the system, not necessarly the spring. Doesn't need to be more of the rubber mat, it can be any thing that has some appreciable mass/sq ft to it. 



> Composite Partitions
> 
> As just discussed, the insulation of a single-leaf panel can be improved in a number of ways, but this process can only continue up to a certain point given the exponential increase in mass required.
> 
> ...


Personally, I'd would have just went with a thin CCF like neoprene over the elastomeric stuff, then 3-4 layers of your rubber, then the 1/2" cotton, then a film or aluminum foil facing. If that didn't cut it, then scrap the facing and put another 2-3 layer of the rubber over the cotton. 

I've found that exhaust noise is the WORST! I have multiple attempts of combating it in my hatch, including double-wall barrier systems of varying thickness, stiffness, and mass. I also used 2" cotton in my back seats to try and seal off that area (but it's a hatch, so it's all open air above them). 

It will be interesting to see what happens. I commend you for your efforts, though...most slap a useless layer of VE mat down and brag about the placebo effect to make themselves feel better. Although, I see some do get pretty frustrated and are searching for real answers.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> I think you need more mass (barrier layer). That's why I directed you back to my previous post. If you want to get that STC up, then you need to work on the mass of the system, not necessarly the spring. Doesn't need to be more of the rubber mat, it can be any thing that has some appreciable mass/sq ft to it.


My goal was to go cheap on materials, long on labor. No doubt more material would make a big difference, but then I get into the hundreds of dollars if I did three or four layers. More than anything this was an expiriment. If I knew this was going to be the case, I would have put all my effort into sealing off the trunk from the cabin which is my new goal. I wish I had focused on that with hindsight. I don't plan to do any more on the trunk for that reason. I don't care if the trunk is noisy, provided it's sealed off from the cabin.

In my next car, I will go with a deadening compound like Premium Solarflex with a higher solids count, with a sturdy foam layer like Volara or Neoprene, and then a thin lead barrier and batting on top. I found a place with lead sheeting fairly cheaply. 

Once I seal off the trunk, I think I will be very happy with the results. What I have done so far works very effectively with anything but exhaust noise. If the car were stock it would be extremely quiet now.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

I spent years getting my exhaust tone where i wanted it, its a combo of 2.5" piping and 3" in places, 2 resonators, and a resonant tip that finally makes my lame 2.4l sound throaty. People honestly ask me if i put a bigger engine in there  Sadly, now it's driving me nuts noise wise! It does the exact same thing, acceleration is terribly loud and cruising is OK. It's not as bad for me but people riding in the back seats go nuts.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

elvisjer said:


> I spent years getting my exhaust tone where i wanted it, its a combo of 2.5" piping and 3" in places, 2 resonators, and a resonant tip that finally makes my lame 2.4l sound throaty. People honestly ask me if i put a bigger engine in there  Sadly, now it's driving me nuts noise wise! It does the exact same thing, acceleration is terribly loud and cruising is OK. It's not as bad for me but people riding in the back seats go nuts.


I end up skipping shifts to save gas anyway, so it's less of a problem. There is no hope of me hearing music with any hard acceleration, however.

Once I seal the trunk, I should be happy.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

hehe. Lucky for me, i own a tiny yaris. Exhaust noise is to the least of my worries..

So i stripped my entire interior for the first time on Friday. Vacuumed it clean, wiped it down-- then began to lay down the Layers of Roof Guard. I probably put around 2 Gallons into the interior in 2 Days. Everything already dried, but hasn't cured. The Large Sleeping Ensolite which i purchased from ArmySupplies was cut up and used to cover all of the interior Tire humps. i used 2 layers on the front tires, and a layer on the rear humps. Also stuck some in my trunk along the sides and spare tire region.
Today i pieced my ENTIRE interior back together. *real PIA*. Ended up stripping two threads... 
Anyways, gave it a good test drive and got a mixed result. While the Road noise was completely eliminated, it seemed to have amplified the sound coming from the engine. Probably Mentally, b/c its the only thing making noise! Its always been horrendously loud for such a tiny engine. I should probably take it to the Dealers to figure out if anything is malfunctioning...
Anywhom, For anyone who is looking for a quite ride... This is the way imo.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Yep, that is part of the problem. I HEAR the exhaust and engine much more now because everything else is quiet. I also noticed how loud my driver's door is (untreated) now that everything else is quiet.

The exhaust is still annoying, but it's amazing going over bumps now. I was actually aiming for bumps in the road and having a large smile on my face. The car sounds so much more solid now. It really does feel like an S-Class except for the exhaust. The Solarflex did an amazing job in that respect, truly amazing. No doubt brand name liquid deadeners work well too, but 5 gallons of Solarflex is $72, vs $300 for brand name. Tire noise is still a little louder than I would like, but much of that will be cured when I do the driver's door. It also doesn't help that I am running on borderline track tires, Dunlop Direzza Z1s.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Haha ! so it isn't just me huh ! I too, remembered what you had posted about the bumps. And deliberately aimed for the reflectors to test it out!-- I know exactly how you feel :]
After 3 days of literally waking up, applying, then going to bed.... It really pays off.

Are you going to do anything about your engine noise though?.. What can be done ? b/c i've done it this far-- might as well complete the whole 9 yards...
I think i'm going to remove most of the panels and give them another coat of elastomeric as well :]


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Honda did put a pretty thick 2mm rubber barrier on the firewall and I think some cotton batting behind that. I don't know any other way to keep it quiet. I did add batting where I could, but the only way to truly make a difference would be to remove the dash and I'm not going that far. I may remove the glovebox and see if I can reach any more of the firewall that way, but it's pretty hard to reach anything.

I rolled over some train tracks today and burst out laughing. It's that good!


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

Mooble said:


> I rolled over some train tracks today and burst out laughing. It's that good!


You can get meds for that


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

SublimeZ said:


> You can get meds for that


Liquid deadener, that's the only med I need.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I ran out of the Audimute before I could finish the driver's door and they only sell it in 25' rolls or larger. I contacted them about buying a smaller size and they are shipping out a sheet for free to finish my door. I love good customer service! Thanks Audimute!

It's amazing how loud the untreated door is. I guess my noise floor must have dropped significantly in order to notice it. The exhaust didn't seem as loud today, but that's not unusual. My exhaust changes tone depending on the weather and other things. After a long trip, the exhaust is much louder. Maybe I can live with it if I seal the package shelf a bit better.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Did you get that Audiomute off of ebay? The stuff that's $121 shipped for 125 sqft?

That stuff is outrageously expensive!  You get 30 lbs for $121 which is $4 per pound. You can get 125 sqft of MLV for less than $2 per pound and it's 3x the density. Audiomute is 45 lbs ft^3 and your basic MLV is 115 lbs ft^3. Damn. But at least it's very limp and it worked out well for you.

**Edit**
I see you got a 50 sqft roll direct which works out to be around $3.50/lb (if you use the quoted 18 lb which includes that hard cardboard tube in the middle, I'm assuming.)


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Well i'm going to start the experiments soon, im going to be buying some Cabosil, microspheres, and also i found someone that sells ground rubber that is meant to be a resin thickener. I'll try different paints and coatings to mix them with, what would you guys like to see me start with paint/coating wise? The hotrod forum is using latex paint, but i see no advantages of that over solarflex so i don't see a reason to try it. What other coatings or paint would you like to see?

On another note, has anyone ever built a large tester for panel resonance and sound deadener? I was thinking that if you made a large concrete container with a range of speakers inside it, or maybe just a good sub, you could attatch metal panels to the open side, bolt them down, and measure flex, RTA results, and get some data on the effectiveness of different sound deadeners. What do you think? I'm really wanting to try this...


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

That seems like a great idea elvis.
I have never seen anyone do that test. But it seems like it would prove very useful if you could figure out how to measure the flex and such.
I'm not sure about any other paint that would prove to be a better substitute than solarflex. However there are different types of roofguards.
I remember that when i was in mcLendon's hardware in renton; there was about 3 types of coatings made from 1 company.. They were pretty much the same price; the only difference was their compound/elasticity. 1 was chalky. Other was 400% Elastic; Last one was 1000% Elastic. There are things to be proven in those for sure .
Keep us all updated Elvis ! i'm interested in this.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Ive been drawing some ideas for a testing device and i have one that will work on paper, and im 90% it will work in the real world too. it would be able to test a products ability to dampen sheet metal through different frequencies, its flex, its heat creation, the amount of sound that it leaks and also be able to test at different heats. It would not tell you really how well it will work in your car in particular, but simply tell you a lot of info on what it does to sound and how well it does it. I think i might start building it this weekend....if it works i will email companies for samples to test with.


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

Hey elvisjer,

I was at my local Home Depot tonight and saw that they had the gallon cans of Solarflex, so I decided that I was going to go back and pick up a gallon in the next couple of weeks.

I decided to do a little more looking on Microspheres (sources and different types)

I found this place on line. They took a couple of potshots at the other companies offering insulating paint ceramic microsphere additives and claim that they actually have test data to back them up.

http://www.insuladd.com/paint-additive.html

I didn't go very in depth in my reading yet. They say that the principal that their product works on is reflecting radiant heat rather than providing a barrier to slow heat transfer.

Figured I'd bring this to your attention if you hadn't seen this before, there might be some good information in their testing, they say they have 3rd party test data to back up their product.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Actually, i dont think you would want to have that reflective property for acoustic properties since you want it to convert the acoustic waves into heat. You need thermal transfer not reflection. Either way, that website seems very very sketchy especially with thier secret data. If they REALLY had data saying microspheres don't work they would have it on thier front page. I have nothing to lose either way, but i trust the majority over the single person with a bullhorn


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

elvisjer said:


> Actually, i dont think you would want to have that reflective property for acoustic properties since you want it to convert the acoustic waves into heat. You need thermal transfer not reflection. Either way, that website seems very very sketchy especially with thier secret data. If they REALLY had data saying microspheres don't work they would have it on thier front page. I have nothing to lose either way, but i trust the majority over the single person with a bullhorn


That's what I was thinking too... if anything you want something that absorbs rather than reflects sounds... but I'm way over my head in understanding acoustics right now... I'm learning but the curve is quite steep.

I was somewhat put on edge by the guy's attitude and attacking his competitors and their claims... kinda put that "bullhorn" picture in my head as well since someone who actually had a good product wouldn't feel the need to resort to such tactics.

I was trying to figure out if I wanted to try the glass microspheres or the ceramic microspheres. My plan is to get a gallon of the Solarflex and mix up small batches and use parts of my trunk to see how effective it was.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Well, I finally finished the trunk and what a pain it was!

I guess I went for a little bling, but I really couldn't care less what my trunk looks like. I slapped some pleather on a board and screwed it to the back of the enclosure. I also put some copper soldering caps in the wire holes to make it look a little neater. I'm happy with the results, but I had low expectations.










Side view:









I also put some pleather around the enclosure to make it look a little nicer and to act as a gasket for the subs.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Looks great bro! I love it! I want those amps.......


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Here are the pics you've all been waiting for...

Activated Solarflex









It has the consistency of jelly or a thick pudding. I applied it with a spatula. Unfortunately, while it is easier to use because you only need one coat, it is harder to get an even layer. It looks much better when painted on in standard form, but that takes 5 layers to get the same thickness.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

WOW! Thats awesome! So can you just buy the activator? Ive been experimenting with the microspheres, cabosil, and cryogenically ground rubber. Interesting results. Im thinking that mixing in some of my results with the activator could be crazy effective.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I think you can just buy the activator. I don't know for sure. I got mine from someone who ordered Spectrum.


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

Mooble said:


> I think you can just buy the activator. I don't know for sure. I got mine from someone who ordered Spectrum.


You can buy just the activator off Second Skin's website.
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/sound-deadening-materials/sludge-activator.php

Not sure I'd want to go the thickened route... probably quicker but the paint looked a lot more evenly distributed.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

*SUCCESS!!!!!!* 

I've just about finished now since I completed the driver's door today. I was having horrible rattling problems in it so I took a little more time with it than I did the passenger door.

It goes a little something like this:

1) Outer door skin 
one layer of Dynamat Xtreme
one thick-ass layer of activated Solarflex
one inch of Volara from top to bottom
one layer of Audimute over the foam

2) Inner door skin
one layer Dynamat Xtreme
one thickass layer of activated Solarflex
sealed all access holes with plywood and silicone

3) Trim Panel
one layer Spectum
one thick layer Solarflex
3/8" Bonded Logic Insulator over entire panel

I actually went out on my lunch break today to finish sealing the access holes. I haven't had an opportunity to see how much the noise level dropped, but I'll know after work. One thing I can say is that the annoying rattles are gone.

I've learned to cope with what's left of the exhaust now. It's actually not that bad. When cruising, it's barely noticible. Overall I'm pretty happy considering this is a sports car riding on stiff coilovers and track tires with an aftermarket exhaust. I think it's as quiet as I'm going to get it.


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Im TOTALLY into the whole DIY sound deadener and am going to go the same route with my ride and have a totally honest question. Could this have been acomplished more easily with just some damp pro or something?


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Oh, Mooble. Pics are mandatory. Get on that


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

elvisjer said:


> Could this have been acomplished more easily with just some damp pro or something?


Well, not really. I already had deadening mat underneath almost everything that I Solarflexed anyway. Damp Pro is a little better that Dynamat Xtreme, but I seriously doubt that it's better than Dynamat with a ton of Solarflex on top of it. 

That's just the deadening layer. Deadener is not effective at blocking soundwaves, however. If you deaden your car, you're only halfway done. That's where the foam and barrier layers come in. That is used to reduce road noise, not deadener. Finally, the cotton batting soaks up what noise the barrier layer doesn't.

When you strip your car, drive it around with nothing but bare metal and deadener and you'll see how ineffective deadener is at blocking road noise. Your car will be loud as hell. Damp pro is a great product, but it's only 1/3 or 1/4th of the equation. Sound control is a multi-stage, multi-layer project.

P.S. The rattling weatherstrip is back. I need to find out how to stop it. It's better than it was before, but it will still drive me crazy.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

elvisjer said:


> Oh, Mooble. Pics are mandatory. Get on that


It actually looked the same as the other door except for the sealed up access holes. If I take it apart again to fix the rattling weatherstripping, I'll snap some pics.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Sound control is a multi-stage, multi-layer project.


Nonsense, poopy pants!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> Nonsense, poopy pants!


Pshaw! I wish it weren't. I could have saved myself 60 hours of labor.


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## fonque (May 30, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> Nonsense, poopy pants!


awesome movie!

After reading this thread I am planning on going a similar route with my cars sans the liquid deadeners.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

fonque said:


> After reading this thread I am planning on going a similar route with my cars sans the liquid deadeners.


But the liquid deadener is half the fun!!!

The liquid deadener really did make a huge difference in how solid the car feels now over bumps. It's hard to argue the $75 price tag for 5 gal also.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

now that you have had the car done for a few months how is the deadener standing up?


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## Pntbtrjly (Feb 6, 2009)

Mooble-- Is your exhaust resonated or non resonated? If it isn't resonated, try and pick up a resonator. It will cut your noise down considerably, with little to no sacrifice in power. I'm talking like 1hp less, maybe. Also, see if wrapping your exhaust or exhaust channel in heat wrap will help kill the sound. I think heat tape is pretty cheap and you can do a bunch of layers. Those Preludes are amazing cars, but when you jump on 'em, especially with a Megan (or did you say Milltek?) you can definitely hear it.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Yes, it is resonated. It's a full Mugen cat-back. I think my main problem is where the cat meets the resonating chamber. I lost the good gasket when I took out my high flow cat. I've got a new one now, I just need to get under and disconnect everything so I can put the new one in. 

Mugen's are actually considered the quietest of the performance exhausts even though they post the highest gains. Still, it was too loud for me on the highway. Now it's very quiet on the highway, but I can still hear it accelerating in the city. As long as it's quiet while cruising I'm happy and it is now. I still think about selling it every now and then. Considering they still fetch $600+ used, it's tempting.


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## Pntbtrjly (Feb 6, 2009)

Absolutely. I'm glad you got it straightened out. Amazing work on one of my favorite vehicles ever made.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

so you have had no problem with the products you used?
i am thinking about doing my doors. they are already fiberglass i might be able to get away with just liquid deadener.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ggk said:


> so you have had no problem with the products you used?
> i am thinking about doing my doors. they are already fiberglass i might be able to get away with just liquid deadener.


Nope. It's been about 6 months now and no problems. All deadeners lose some effectiveness in the cold. It isn't as quiet as it was earlier, but I expect that to improve when it warms up. I would do it all over again, but the Audimute wasn't as effective as I would have liked. If I were doing it again, I would just use lead with cotton batting on top.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Pntbtrjly said:


> Absolutely. I'm glad you got it straightened out. Amazing work on one of my favorite vehicles ever made.


Here are a couple decent pics


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## benthe8track (Nov 23, 2008)

I love that color! This site has some great looking (and sounding!) Hondas.


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## Thrill_House (Nov 20, 2008)

Any finished pics of the door panels?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Thrill_House said:


> Any finished pics of the door panels?


Never finished them. I spent about 80 hours doing the rest of the car. I was so tired at the end of that that I didn't want to mess with the doors. Come summer I'll give it another go.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

ha.... lazy ass... 


good read though... dammit no i want to deaden the hell out of my 350z


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## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

Mooble... thanks for all the hard work... a few questions for you...

1.) when you say you would skip the Audiomute & do lead sheet. What thickness & how would you apply it? Bond/glued to the Volara? then glue the batting on top of the that?

2.) So if I understand it right... you have peel-n-seal pretty much everywhere, then Solarflex on that....correct?

3.) besides the Ensolite/Volara on the back side of the head liner, did you peel-n-seal the roof panel? Obviously Texas heat is a concern... 

4.) was the batting you found foil backed or just 1/2" thick cotton batting panels? Do you remember where you bought it?

5.) I am guessing you were using bulk contact cement for your bonding or were you using Spray adhesive?

*edit*

6.) would you still think that Solarflex unactivated is the way to go?

thanks! I'm glad I went looking for this...

Headed to Lowes tomorrow.. then a little trip to see the Foosman! lol

Rob


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## Strugglewithin (Feb 21, 2009)

The whole thing is pretty impressive. Thanks for showing it and the progress. Gives me some ideas about what I want to do.


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

So, I finally pulled the trigger on some Damplifier earlier today and now I read this!! My doors already have some eDead...v2 i think..been awhile. My plan is/was to do the rest of car and the doors over with the damplifier.

Mooble, now that the process is over, if you did it again would you apply the coating on bare metal, _*then*_ add the butyl deadener or keep it the way you have it. I am ordering some Volara as we speak. I have 3 days off in a row (quite a feat for a restaurant mng) and plan on getting everything, including system install done. Will be going on vacay in 2 weeks and want everything done before hand so I can enjoy the 11 hr drive to Miami!

So unless someone says different, my plan of attack will be Damp, liquid, volara.

Mainly adding to doors, but floor and trunk are areas of concentration. Also have some Teklite (eds foam w/adhesive) on inside of door panels.


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## BlackJ (Dec 22, 2008)

i know someone suggested adding those glass spheres or something to this but i was thinking of adding sand or lead shot to this... what do you all think about that route for more mass?


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Lead shot would be very interesting...the microspheres are so tiny that they pretty much mix into the stuff completely and you can't tell the difference between the solarflex/medium and the spheres. Adding some metallic weight could be very interesting! If there is some type of lead powder you can buy (like inside those x-ray proof vests) and you could mix in it would be very fun; and poisonous!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

TXwrxWagon said:


> Mooble... thanks for all the hard work... a few questions for you...
> 
> 1.) when you say you would skip the Audiomute & do lead sheet. What thickness & how would you apply it? Bond/glued to the Volara? then glue the batting on top of the that?
> 
> ...


Sorry, I haven't kept up with the thread.

1) Yes, I would do everything the same except substitute lead for Audimute. I guess thickness would depend on price. 

2) Peel 'n' Seal is in the rear of the car. I used Dynamat X-treme in the doors. I didn't put mat deadener anywhere else, but I put a good thick coating of Solarflex on top of the factory deading on the floor. Basically, if it was metal, it got coated in Solarflex.

3) Nothing on the roof but Solarflex. I can't get to it. The sunroof mechanicals completely block my access to the roof. If I were doing it over again, I would use a thinner cotton batting and put that in the roof.

4) All my batting is foil backed. It's called "The Insulator" and it's made for vehicles. I got it at a local green (hippie) building supply place. It's nothing but recycled denim jeans.

5) Contact cement applied with a brush. Sprays are too messy for me and expensive. 

6) Activated Solarflex is nifty, but it's harder to apply smoothly. While it takes longer, I would just do multiple coats of the inactivated kind.


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## alpinefr3ak (Mar 9, 2009)

Hey Mooble, very nice lude! I actually got a link to this thread off preludepower.com. I just got done rewiring my lude's entire audio system and installing amps for the front and back speakers. I've been looking for some good (affordable) sound proofing and I think you nailed it.

Thanks for all the info, I think I'll go pick up some of this stuff and get started


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

Could you change the color of the solarflex with some sort of color tint?


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## markland556 (Dec 2, 2008)

Very nice setup. Love the foam blocks that you used to get the shape of the speaker enclosure in the door.


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## adhumston (Mar 1, 2009)

Mooble, did it considerably cut down on the tire noise? Did you end up doing anything extra to the wheelwells?


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