# 2013 Honda Accord Build



## trevordj

Approximately 4 months ago I sold my 2010 Volvo C30 and purchased a 2013 Honda Accord EX sedan. I actually loved my Volvo, and I loved the stereo system in it even more (build log here) but my wife and I were expecting our first child and I needed something a little more practical. After driving every sedan under the sun, the new Accord was hands down the nicest in my price range. I convinced myself that I wouldn't miss the stereo system and would just get by listening to a stock stereo. 

I made it about 2 weeks before I started planning my new installation. 

After scrimping, saving, and begging my wife to use part of our tax return I finally have all the gear together for a build. I learned a lot from my previously mentioned first "complete" installation and I hope to continue that learning trend here. My goals for this project are:

1) Achieve good sound quality using primarily factory locations and a simple 2-way front stage. 
2) Learn to build and properly tune a ported subwoofer enclosure (I have always done sealed or IB).
3) Be able to return the car to stock relatively easily. 
4) Maintain serviceability of the vehicle.
5) Respect the original design of the vehicle interior. I want everything to "look like it was supposed to be there." 
6) Learn new composite fabrication techniques including but not limited to vacuum bagging (wet layup, I will likely not be attempting infusion yet)
7) Have fun.
8) Finish in time for my first sound quality competition (IASCA event June 8th, 2013).
9) Retain the spare tire, tools, and ability to access them.

I am definitely not an expert. What I lack in experience I try to compensate with persistence. I post a lot of photos with my builds, it helps keep me honest and details my thought process, for better or worse. I encourage and embrace feedback from the multiple talented individuals here.

Here is my core gear list. This doesn't include a lot of odds and ends such as wiring and sound deadener, but it gives a general idea of what's going in the car. 










Here is my proposed system layout. The only unknown at this point is whether I will be running a three way center channel using a Vifa NE85W that I picked up. If space will allow I will do this. This is, therefore, not represented in the diagram. 










I will be running the entire system off the rear outputs of the stock head unit and will be running two full range drivers off the front channels of the stock head unit. These will be mounted in the top of the doors, near the handles. This will allow me to run bluetooth calling out of these full range speakers only and not through the entire system. It will also allow me the potential flexibility to convert the system to a three way front stage should I get the itch in the future. 

Oh, and I will be running four eight inch subwoofers . The subs will be mounted as pairs in two custom ported enclosures in each side of the trunk. The front and rear speakers will be in stock locations, but with some twists. The center channel… well I will have to keep you in suspense there . 

The amplifiers, processor, and wiring will be mounted in a false floor built into the trunk. I will do two pairs of fans in a push-pull configuration to handle cooling.


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## trevordj

Here are some pictures of the freshly detailed car:


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## Coppertone

Subscribed, as my wife is also a physician. Congrats on the great news about your forth coming baby.


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## trevordj

Here are some pictures of the gear: 

Everything. I gotta send a big thank you to Don (RudeBoy) at Sound Deadener Showdown for his assistance with formulating a sound deadening plan for the project. The gear I purchased from him is top left in the photo. The only thing not pictured is the 160lb package of mass loaded vinyl. It was too unwieldy to pack into the garage for this shot. 









Dayton RSS210HO-4 8 inch subwoofer









JBL MS8









Kenwood KAC-9105D









Kenwood KAC-8405









Kenwood X450-4









Tang Band W4-1337









Vifa NE149W


















Vifa NE65W









Vifa NE85W (Not sure if I will be using or not)


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## trevordj

Coppertone said:


> Subscribed, as my wife is also a physician. Congrats on the great news about your forth coming baby.


Thanks a lot! He was actually born on 04/21/2013 so I am running on pretty much no sleep . My wife is awesome though and she is letting me work in some time for this project as she can.


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## trevordj

Some more photos:

Vifa XT25 Tweeter









Vifa OT19 Tweeter









Monoprice RCA Connectors: I'll be using these with some Gepco 61801Z wire, tech flex, and some heatshrink to do custom, DIY RCAs. They are super easy to build, and I can make an RCA cable for a couple bucks that kicks the pants off anything available commercially. 


















Various raw materials including fiberglass, carbon fiber, resins, mold release agents, etc. You can also see my ridiculous collection of detailing supplies.


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## trevordj

I started deconstruction of the car today and installing some sound deadener. It's late and I have to work tomorrow so I will update that tomorrow.


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## lucky

Best of luck with the build. Are you aware of the headache people are having with aftermarket stereos and Honda's active noise cancellation? While you're tearing the car apart, it may be a good time to disconnect the ASC module.


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## mrmill

in for more pics...good luck on your install


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## req

this looks like is going to be great 

looking forward to it!


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## JP Fabrication

Can't wait for this one.


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## trevordj

lucky said:


> Best of luck with the build. Are you aware of the headache people are having with aftermarket stereos and Honda's active noise cancellation? While you're tearing the car apart, it may be a good time to disconnect the ASC module.


Thanks for the heads up. Yes, I am aware of the need to disconnect the ANC module. It will be a relative piece of cake though. I will be pulling the headliner to sound deaden the roof so I will have to disconnect the ANC microphones at that time anyway. I'll leave them disconnected when I put everything back together.


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## mattyjman

looking forward to the build trevor... looks like a simplified budget (over last time) but what looks like some really nice drivers... should have good results  

in for updates ...


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## trevordj

Thanks Matty. It is definitely similar to my last build simply because I loved the way that car sounded. I just had to set a limit on the spending. I really want to focus more on the build quality and use of composites in this build over high dollar components. I still have some ideas up my sleeve though. If everything turns out the way I envision it, it should be super cool when it is done.

And those Vifa mids are REALLY nice.


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## trevordj

Well, this is the most boring part of the build... sound deadening. There isn't a whole lot to show but I will post some pics of the little progress I made. This stuff always takes longer than I expect. I am going to rally this weekend and try to finish up all the deadening by Monday so I can actually get into the fun stuff. 

First some measurements. I used my iphone and Dayton IMM-6 calibrated microphone to take some measurements prior to making any modifications. I want to be able to quantify how much a difference the sound deadener makes. These are all a-weighted RTA measurements. All measurements were taken with the windows up, stereo off, and the heating/AC off.

Engine off, stationary in garage









Engine on, at idle, stationary in garage









Quiet road (no traffic), cruise control set at 25mph









Quiet road (little traffic), cruise control set at 45mph









Quiet road (little traffic), cruise control set at 65mph









Quiet road (little traffic), accelerating onto freeway (engine floored). Measurement taken at approximately 45-55mph









I will refer back to these measurements after I finish the sound deadening.


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## trevordj

Here some quick pics of my work area and the off camera flash mounted on a storage rack










The shop tunes (speakers are orb audio point source drivers and a 10 inch energy subwoofer, source is my iPhone and an Emotiva stereo preamplifier and 2 channel amplifier, it sounds great)


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## trevordj

Stock trunk









Trunk, rear deck, and back seat stripped


















Trunk lid with alpha damp applied until panel resonance controlled









All crevices stuffed with jute padding









Back together









Alpha damp down in the trunk and spare tire well









It doesn't look pretty, but all crevices were stuffed with jute padding and polyfill. Some places needed to be secured with a bit of tape until the carpet is replaced.




































The rear deck was treated from above and below with enough alpha damp to take care of any resonances. The rear seat platform was also treated. Luckily the Accord comes with a ton of factory sound deadener so overall panel resonance isn't a huge issue along the floor. 



















The rear deck was treated with a layer of closed cell foam. Everything was mocked up and fits well. No obvious resonance remains from the panel or rear deck. First mission complete.









Tomorrow... more sound deadening. I'm hoping to get the rear of the car covered in CCF and MLV then remove the roof panel and front seats to start deadening there Sunday.


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## pereze

trevordj said:


> The shop tunes (speakers are orb audio point source drivers and a 10 inch energy subwoofer, source is my iPhone and an Emotiva stereo preamplifier and 2 channel amplifier, it sounds great)


nice shop setup! I would be happy with that as my main rig. 
Good luck with the build. It looks good so far.


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## mr.metoo

Great looking build and love the car 

Congrats on the baby as well


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## Niebur3

Looking forward to this!


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## lucky

Little off topic, but what other sedans made your short list? Also, you'd recommend the orb speakers?


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## trevordj

I drove pretty much every sedan (and a few hatches and small SUVs) I could find in my budget: 

Toyota Camry
Nissan Altima and Sentra
Honda Accord, Civic, and CRV
Subaru Outback, Legacy, Impreza, Forester, and Crosstek
Mazda 6 and CX7
Kia Sportage, Sorento, and a couple others
Hyundai (cannot remember the models... they were basically the same as the Kias)
VW Passat

I am sure there were a few more. I was test driving cars every weekend for like 2 months. From the above list the cars that really stood out were: 

Honda Accord
Honda CRV
Subaru Outback
Mazda CX7

The orbs are nice speakers given their form factor (ie they have a high WAF... Wife Acceptance Factor). We have them in our living room and and back patio as well. They kick the hell out of similarly sized speakers but cannot compare to the sound of a floor stander with multiple sized drivers. I will set up a different home theater set when we move in a year and I can have a dedicated home theater room.


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## trevordj

The last two days have been slow going. I always forget how time consuming sound deadening is. The bad news is that I didn't get as much done as I wanted, but the good news is that the trunk is now completely deadened. 

For almost every piece of mass loaded vinyl I have to cut a cardboard template and then transfer it to vinyl. Then I have to cut the closed cell foam including cutting windows to allow the industrial strength velcro attached to the MLV to stick to the panel through the foam. If any of you have any tips how to do this more efficiently I am all ears.










My back is killing me from sitting like this for the last two days










Here is the trunk all buttoned up





































And a shot of my MLV seams (the brain child of Don over at SDS)









Here is a video of the rear quarter panel resonance after treatment (for those who haven't done this before). 






Sorry, once I get through this sound deadening I will get to something more exciting. Thanks for looking.


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## bbfoto

Looks great so far. Nice pics, too.  The Accord is a great car and it looks like you've chosen some fine gear. Should be pretty sweet when your finished.  sub'd


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## mattyjman

great job on full coverage... its hard to be patient enough to do a "great" job rather than just a "that will do" job


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## trevordj

I have continued to chip away at the sound deadening throughout the week. I now have all the deadening done up through the back seats. 




























Tomorrow after work I will pull the front seats and the carpet to finish the floor of the car this weekend. 

While the interior is out I will also try to tackle the roof. I likely won't start the door deadening until next week.


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## KyleMDunn

Really looking forward to this build. Best of luck sir.


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## req

that MLV is a pain in the ass - i applaud your work sir! i know exactly how hard it is to do all of that. yours is coming out much better than mind did.


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## trevordj

Thanks guys, chipping away at this one evening at a time during the week. Hopefully this weekend I can knock a big chunk out of this so I can move on to something less mind numbing.


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## bbfoto

Definitely mind numbing work...but so worth it in the end. Looking great so far.


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## mattyjman

I get to look forward to more of this stuff this weekend  yay, not 

great work Trevor... nice to see the attention to detail and thorough diligence


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## AStephan

Nice job so far!

I've got a 2013 Accord Sport, and I swear the trunk is a black hole for bass.


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## trevordj

Thanks guys! Astephan, the problem with your sport may not be the trunk but maybe the crappy OEM subwoofer. The OEM stereo in the sport is getting horrible reviews. 

Last evening I got the rear of the car buttoned back up just to make sure everything fit. The stuff fits much tighter for sure, but everything that I will be using fits ok.










Today I got the front of the car deconstructed. Oh, and I took the dash out too . Three cheers for ripping the entire dash out of a brand new car .


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## BlueAc

trevordj said:


> Thanks guys! Astephan, the problem with your sport may not be the trunk but maybe the crappy OEM subwoofer. The OEM stereo in the sport is getting horrible reviews.
> 
> Last evening I got the rear of the car buttoned back up just to make sure everything fit. The stuff fits much tighter for sure, but everything that I will be using fits ok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today I got the front of the car deconstructed. Oh, and I took the dash out too . Three cheers for ripping the entire dash out of a brand new car .


Brass balls my man lol


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## AStephan

trevordj said:


> Thanks guys! Astephan, the problem with your sport may not be the trunk but maybe the crappy OEM subwoofer. The OEM stereo in the sport is getting horrible reviews.


That's true the stock stereo is horrible, I installed an aftermarket system 2 weeks after I got the car. The Sport model doesn't even have a sub. I installed a JBL MS-8, JBL ms-62c components and a W10gti in a sealed enclosure all powered by a JL Audio xd500/3. 

With the back seat down the sub pounds, with the seat up the bass is much less hard hitting. I've ordered a different amp because the xd500/3 only puts out about 250 rms to the w10gti at 3 ohms. I ordered a PPI p1000.1, I think that should help out.


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## trevordj

More work today: 

I got the floor covered in CLD tiles, it didn't take much as there is significant deadening from the factory (not pictured)

I took the headliner down










And here are the results of today's deconstruction



















I put the dash and back seat in the house as I ran out of room in the garage (and I wanted to protect the dash)












AStephan said:


> That's true the stock stereo is horrible, I installed an aftermarket system 2 weeks after I got the car. The Sport model doesn't even have a sub. I installed a JBL MS-8, JBL ms-62c components and a W10gti in a sealed enclosure all powered by a JL Audio xd500/3.
> 
> With the back seat down the sub pounds, with the seat up the bass is much less hard hitting. I've ordered a different amp because the xd500/3 only puts out about 250 rms to the w10gti at 3 ohms. I ordered a PPI p1000.1, I think that should help out.


Ah, I see. You actually may have a bass trap in the trunk as the stock accord is fairly well sound deadened. I am going to try going stock, but if I end up having to put the seat down to get good sub sound (a solution I am not willing to live with) I will order the EX-L level rear deck and cut out the hole for the stock sub. That will give a fairly large vent where the subwoofer can breathe into the passenger cabin. The rear deck is about $170 which isn't bad IMHO. In fact, I think I have heard enough reviews from people regarding this that I am just going to go for it.


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## BuickGN

Looks good so far. Just an FYI for the future, you won't be able to run speakers off of the MS8 and off of the deck with the MS8s built in delay.


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## trevordj

BuickGN said:


> Looks good so far. Just an FYI for the future, you won't be able to run speakers off of the MS8 and off of the deck with the MS8s built in delay.


Ya, I know. The speakers I have running of the deck in my diagram will be a "worst case scenario" if I have bluetooth delay. The plan (I did this in my volvo) is to run the entire MS-8 system off the rear channels of the OEM stereo and then run two widebanders off the front outputs of the OEM stereo. I will keep the OEM stereo faded all the way to the rear. Then, when I get a call over bluetooth, it will ONLY play over the front speakers (the bluetooth plays through the OEM front speakers only regardless of system fade for music) thus defeating the MS-8 delay which causes the echo. 

I haven't heard this being an issue in Hondas as it was in my Volvo so we will see. Hopefully I will be able to use those widebanders and run a three way front stage (quasi-active).

After tearing into the dash today I will be making some further changes to the system plan. At this point I will pretty much plan on running a full three way front stage, doors *AND* center. Whooohooo! I was hoping I would be able to fit a midrange in the dash.


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## trevordj

BlueAc said:


> Brass balls my man lol


Hahahaha! Trust me, I am still nervous I will not be able to get it back together.


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## trevordj

AStephan said:


> That's true the stock stereo is horrible, I installed an aftermarket system 2 weeks after I got the car. The Sport model doesn't even have a sub. I installed a JBL MS-8, JBL ms-62c components and a W10gti in a sealed enclosure all powered by a JL Audio xd500/3.
> 
> With the back seat down the sub pounds, with the seat up the bass is much less hard hitting. I've ordered a different amp because the xd500/3 only puts out about 250 rms to the w10gti at 3 ohms. I ordered a PPI p1000.1, I think that should help out.


I just put in my order for the EX-L level rear deck so I can perform this modification. One bonus is I get to change the color of the rear deck to black so it matches the dash . Thanks for pushing me in the right direction.


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## BuickGN

trevordj said:


> Ya, I know. The speakers I have running of the deck in my diagram will be a "worst case scenario" if I have bluetooth delay. The plan (I did this in my volvo) is to run the entire MS-8 system off the rear channels of the OEM stereo and then run two widebanders off the front outputs of the OEM stereo. I will keep the OEM stereo faded all the way to the rear. Then, when I get a call over bluetooth, it will ONLY play over the front speakers (the bluetooth plays through the OEM front speakers only regardless of system fade for music) thus defeating the MS-8 delay which causes the echo.
> 
> I haven't heard this being an issue in Hondas as it was in my Volvo so we will see. Hopefully I will be able to use those widebanders and run a three way front stage (quasi-active).
> 
> After tearing into the dash today I will be making some further changes to the system plan. At this point I will pretty much plan on running a full three way front stage, doors *AND* center. Whooohooo! I was hoping I would be able to fit a midrange in the dash.


I see, good idea. I had the echo in my TL. Not on my end but for the other people. I never did try the update though. I'm sure Honda has changed things since then though.
Good luck, it took me 3 years of ownership before I was comfortable removing the interior. I started with a sealed box grabbing the signal from the stock subs and some Infinities powered by the stock amp. I wish I would've had the balls to tear into it when new.


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## aV8ter

Commitment is strong in this thread!!! I have been shopping around for a new car and have been considering the accord but it really does seem like a pain trying to incorporate a full stereo while keeping the original headunit. That, and you can't get a 6MT white Sport in the states. 

Great work. Takes a determined man to take the dash out of a brand new year model.


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## trevordj

aV8ter said:


> Commitment is strong in this thread!!! I have been shopping around for a new car and have been considering the accord but it really does seem like a pain trying to incorporate a full stereo while keeping the original headunit. That, and you can't get a 6MT white Sport in the states.
> 
> Great work. Takes a determined man to take the dash out of a brand new year model.


Thanks! Ya, I was totally going into this blind. In fact, I didn't even actually plan on removing the dash today. By the time I got everything removed to get the front carpet out I was so close I just decided to go for it. I looked at a couple repair manuals for 2008 and 2012 accords, but the new generation repair manual isn't out yet so I just had to wing it. This is the first time I have removed a dash from a car too. I will admit it was a total pain in the ass to do this though. 

Now if I can get the damn thing back together.


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## trevordj

More work today: 

CLD tiles installed on the roof










3M Thinsulate Acoustic installed on the roof



















Roof panel buttoned back up










The floor was deadened where necessary with CLD tiles and then it got a healthy dose of closed cell foam. The driver and passenger seats were doubled up. 










MLV was started in the passenger cabin but I was running out of daylight and strength in my back so I called it quits after a solid 10 hours of work. 










One more shot of the dash just because it freaks me out everytime I look at it


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## CDT FAN

BlueAc said:


> Brass balls my man lol


Indeed. I just did the SDS mods on my front doors and that was a lot of work. I can't imagine doing the whole car.


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## t3sn4f2

Hey man, nice car and awesome job with the deadening. Can't wait to hear your impressions on it when you're all done.

I was hoping you could do me a quick favor while you have the dash out. I'm looking into this car and am curious to see if it is possible to install a center channel _somehow_. Does it look like there could be a hollow area right below the center dash? Or is it all packed with vents and stuff? Maybe if you can, could you take a non fish-eye pic of the underside of the dash?

Oh and thanks for taking all the detailed pics.


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2 said:


> Hey man, nice car and awesome job with the deadening. Can't wait to hear your impressions on it when you're all done.
> 
> I was hoping you could do me a quick favor while you have the dash out. I'm looking into this car and am curious to see if it is possible to install a center channel _somehow_. Does it look like there could be a hollow area right below the center dash? Or is it all packed with vents and stuff? Maybe if you can, could you take a non fish-eye pic of the underside of the dash?
> 
> Oh and thanks for taking all the detailed pics.


I will do you one better. I will be installing a center channel right in the area I think you are referring to. I will also take some more detailed pictures if that area. Unfortunately there isn't a ton of space so fitting anything larger than 3-4" will be a challenge. 

My solution to this will be installing a 2.5" mid and tweeter in the upper dash and a 5.25" woofer down lower in the dash, in front of the shifter.


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> I will do you one better. I will be installing a center channel right in the area I think you are referring to. I will also take some more detailed pictures if that area. Unfortunately there isn't a ton of space so fitting anything larger than 3-4" will be a challenge.
> 
> My solution to this will be installing a 2.5" mid and tweeter in the upper dash and a 5.25" woofer down lower in the dash, in front of the shifter.


Cool, thanks. 

You know, if you have enough side to side space you can probably do an MTM style center with a couple of the mids. Off axis coherence around the crossover region might suffer a bit due to the PLD differences, but the extra cleaner output will offset that I think. You don't even need an extra channel. Just wire the two mid in parallel. And if you get mids with a square flange you can probably move them closer together (ie corner to corner) and mount the tweeter up in the open space right above them. That'll reduce the center to center spacing on the mids and bring the tweeter in closer making the whole setup more point source like then a straight MTM.

Peerless makes some nice 2.5" square frame 8 ohm fullranges.

The Madisound Speaker Store


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2 said:


> Cool, thanks.
> 
> You know, if you have enough side to side space you can probably do an MTM style center with a couple of the mids. Off axis coherence around the crossover region might suffer a bit due to the PLD differences, but the extra cleaner output will offset that I think. You don't even need an extra channel. Just wire the two mid in parallel. And if you get mids with a square flange you can probably move them closer together (ie corner to corner) and mount the tweeter up in the open space right above them. That'll reduce the center to center spacing on the mids and bring the tweeter in closer making the whole setup more point source like then a straight MTM.
> 
> Peerless makes some nice 2.5" square frame 8 ohm fullranges.
> 
> The Madisound Speaker Store


I have definitely thought about doing that. I have absolutely no experience with MTM designs but it would definitely have the badass factor. Right now I have a single Vifa NE85W for the center channel that I picked up cheap from the classifieds here. The downside is, of course, they are 4 ohm drivers so using it in an MTM parallel at 2 ohms is out (it's fine, I'm only into the speaker $20). 

It looks like the 8 ohm 2.5" Peerless is out of stock at Madisound, PE has it though:

Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048

That peerless driver hits all the right notes with me, rubber surround, Neo magnet (lighter), copper shortening ring. Power handling is a bit low, but I am sure bringing the crossover up a few octaves over Fs will help with that. I think you have me talked into it. 

I have read Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook but it doesn't have much in terms of passive crossover design. I started reading Douglas Self's The Design of Active Crossovers which has a ton of information on passive crossover design but it is a bit overwhelming. Do you have any additional, maybe more pragmatic resources on passive crossover design I should look at? 

I am going to need to design a three way passive crossover for the center and a two way for the fronts (between mid and tweet).

Edit: Thanks for the suggestion too, I am ordering the Peerless drivers now.


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> I have definitely thought about doing that. I have absolutely no experience with MTM designs but it would definitely have the badass factor. Right now I have a single Vifa NE85W for the center channel that I picked up cheap from the classifieds here. The downside is, of course, they are 4 ohm drivers so using it in an MTM parallel at 2 ohms is out (it's fine, I'm only into the speaker $20).
> 
> It looks like the 8 ohm 2.5" Peerless is out of stock at Madisound, PE has it though:
> 
> Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048
> 
> That peerless driver hits all the right notes with me, rubber surround, Neo magnet (lighter), copper shortening ring. *Power handling is a bit low, but I am sure bringing the crossover up a few octaves over Fs will help with that.* I think you have me talked into it.


Yeah, Peerless rates those fullranges with a true small fullrange design in mind (ie 100Hz [email protected]), crossing over a couple at ~300-500Hz will bring up the power handling significantly. Up to midrange specific numbers just with the lower sensitivity still.




trevordj said:


> I have read Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook but it doesn't have much in terms of passive crossover design. I started reading Douglas Self's The Design of Active Crossovers which has a ton of information on passive crossover design but it is a bit overwhelming. *Do you have any additional, maybe more pragmatic resources on passive crossover design I should look at?* I am going to need to design a three way passive crossover for the center and a two way for the fronts (between mid and tweet).
> 
> Edit: Thanks for the suggestion too, I am ordering the Peerless drivers now.


Naw sorry, I always strive for fully active. At least for the front stage that is. So I've never really looked into that aspect for anything outside of a protection cap for the tweeter.


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2 said:


> Yeah, Peerless rates those fullranges with a true small fullrange design in mind (ie 100Hz [email protected]), crossing over a couple at ~300-500Hz will bring up the power handling significantly. Up to midrange specific numbers just with the lower sensitivity still.


That will actually work in my favor I think in this case. The tweeter is about 90dB sensitive 1W/1M and the mid is about 83dB, wired in parallel with two mids the sensitivity will increase by approximately 6dB I think. 



> Naw sorry, I always strive for fully active. At least for the front stage that is. So I've never really looked into that aspect for anything outside of a protection cap for the tweeter.


For the most part me too. I think I may have to end up getting a 2 x 4 mini DSP for the center channel (this will allow a simple active high pass on the mid and low pass on the midbass) that will allow me to at least eliminate building a 3 way passive. I would just be left building a two way passive for the fronts and center. Given my very limited passive experiences that is much less daunting.


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## quietfly

sub'd looking great so far. the best time to take apart a car is when its BNIB 
good luck i'll be watching!!


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> That will actually work in my favor I think in this case. The tweeter is about 90dB sensitive 1W/1M and the mid is about 83dB, wired in parallel with two mids the sensitivity will increase by approximately 6dB I think.


Sorry if I missed it but which one will you be going with?




trevordj said:


> For the most part me too. I think I may have to end up getting a 2 x 4 mini DSP for the center channel (this will allow a simple active high pass on the mid and low pass on the midbass) that will allow me to at least eliminate building a 3 way passive. I would just be left building a two way passive for the fronts and center. Given my very limited passive experiences that is much less daunting.


There is also the option of going active for that 3 way center, using a multi channel amp and its flexible crossover. A JL XD700/5 can handle a fully active L or R while letting the MS-8 do the DSP work between the button mounted midbass and the upper door active mid/tweeter combo. Not sure on your center app though, haven't crunched the numbers.


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2 said:


> Sorry if I missed it but which one will you be going with?


Which mid? The one you mentioned on the previous page, it will work perfectly. I won't be able to fit anything much larger than 2.5" cone diameter x 2" deep. 



> There is also the option of going active for that 3 way center, using a multi channel amp and its flexible crossover. A JL XD700/5 can handle a fully active L or R while letting the MS-8 do the DSP work between the button mounted midbass and the upper door active mid/tweeter combo. Not sure on your center app though, haven't crunched the numbers.


Ya, I looked into that as well. Right now I am looking for the best compromise between what I need the equipment to do and cost. That JL amplifier would cost as much as all the speakers in my car except the subs. Passive crossovers can get expensive quickly as well so I figure if I did the 2 x 4 mini-DSP to handle the center channel and then simple 12dB/octave crossovers to handle the rest. 

The Kenwood amplifiers have pretty limited crossover functionality.


----------



## trevordj

This is the mid:

Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> This is the mid:
> 
> Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048


No no, sorry I meant which tweeter.


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## trevordj

Oh, got ya. Vifa XT25


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2 I have another question for you, how the hell do you pronounce your username ? Seriously, I have been trying to figure it out since 2009, I'm a little slow . 

Well, given that I am somewhat of a compulsive shopper and I was able to do some measuring I made some pretty sweet changes to the system today based on the above discussion. My wife is going to kill me. 

Here is the new system plan: 

The major change is, now I am planning a three way front stage and three way center stage with an MTM arrangement on top of the dash. I will still have to design passive components between all the mids and tweets, but I will be running a miniDSP 2 x 4 between the center mid bass and MTM.


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2, here are some pictures of the dash with particular emphasis behind the OEM display to give you an idea how much room there is. 

This is the center of the dash, display removed










And here are some arrows










The red arrow points to a spot where there is at least room for a 3.5" driver, and maybe a 4" driver with some persuasion. The 4" driver I have is a Tang Band with a neo magnet so it is a little deeper. A more "normal" depth 4" driver would likely fit. 

The blue arrow points to the more challenging area. There is a mounting frame behind the OEM monitor that takes up a lot of real estate. This doesn't appear to be necessary for any particular function. I will be trimming this down and a smaller, 2.5" mid will fit there. Anything bigger just depends on how much surgery you want to perform. 

Close up of the red arrow area



















Close up of the blue arrow area



















This is a view from the underside of the dash (the dash is flipped over), there is a defrost vent that prevents much useable access from this angle. 










Hopefully that helps.


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> t3sn4f2 I have another question for you, how the hell do you pronounce your username ? Seriously, I have been trying to figure it out since 2009, I'm a little slow .


lol, don't bother. It's an acronym "The 3rd Screen Name 4 Frank 2", 2 representing the second iteration, t3sn4f being the first. It was an AOL screen name of mine from the 90's that I created for god knows what. 



trevordj said:


> Well, given that I am somewhat of a compulsive shopper and I was able to do some measuring I made some pretty sweet changes to the system today based on the above discussion. My wife is going to kill me.
> 
> Here is the new system plan:
> 
> The major change is, now I am planning a three way front stage and three way center stage with an MTM arrangement on top of the dash. I will still have to design passive components between all the mids and tweets, but I will be running a miniDSP 2 x 4 between the center mid bass and MTM.


Pic is down but it sounds like a plan. Where are you going to put the door mids? That trim piece where the door handle goes looks like a perfect spot for a Logic7 L/R mid.


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> Hopefully that helps.


Sure does, thanks!

Man Honda won't cut the center channel crowd a break. At least on the previous model you could build out the display and have enough room behind it. Now they completely killed those hopes with that Mercedes inspired dash layout.  Looks like the only way to get enough midbass there is the way you will be doing it.


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## trevordj

t3sn4f2 said:


> lol, don't bother. It's an acronym "The 3rd Screen Name 4 Frank 2", 2 representing the second iteration, t3sn4f being the first. It was an AOL screen name of mine from the 90's that I created for god knows what.


Hahahaha! Well I don't feel so bad for not being able to figure it out. I thought it was one of those words where the numbers were taking the place of letters... tesnafz or something like that. I just chalked it up to being old and not understanding . 



> Pic is down but it sounds like a plan. Where are you going to put the door mids? That trim piece where the door handle goes looks like a perfect spot for a Logic7 L/R mid.


That is exactly where I am planning to put them. Unfortunately that trim piece is only about 2.5" wide so I am limited to a 2" driver for midrange if I have any hope of trimming the piece out and making it look nice. Luckily, like you said, it is an ideal location for a mid according to Andy W. 



t3sn4f2 said:


> Sure does, thanks!
> 
> Man Honda won't cut the center channel crowd a break. At least on the previous model you could build out the display and have enough room behind it. Now they completely killed those hopes with that Mercedes inspired dash layout.  Looks like the only way to get enough midbass there is the way you will be doing it.


For sure, they really made it a challenge on this one. Theoretically you could move the display forward a few inches and get a little extra room, but I don't know how much it would help. With all the plastic ribs behind the screen you would be left performing some serious dash surgery to get a midbass up there. Luckily, this is very similar to what I did with my Volvo and, in my humble and limited opinion, it really sounded nice.


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> That is exactly where I am planning to put them. Unfortunately that trim piece is only about 2.5" wide so I am limited to a 2" driver for midrange if I have any hope of trimming the piece out and making it look nice. Luckily, like you said, it is an ideal location for a mid according to Andy W.


Damn, that's not much at all.


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## quietfly

has using 3 mini dsp's in your signal chain behind the MS8 given you any timing problems?
I ask because i really would like 2 more channels out of the MS8 so i can do 3way active plus center and sides. if the mini dsp solution works it just might be what i've been looking for.....


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## trevordj

quietfly said:


> has using 3 mini dsp's in your signal chain behind the MS8 given you any timing problems?
> I ask because i really would like 2 more channels out of the MS8 so i can do 3way active plus center and sides. if the mini dsp solution works it just might be what i've been looking for.....


I will only be doing one minidsp but I do not see any reason why using it will not work. Any delay built into the minidsp will simply be compensated automatically by the MS-8 when it does it's own time alignment. I have read Andy W. recommend using a minidsp to extract more channels with the MS-8 several times.

Also, using a mni-dsp where I am planning will allow me to set T/A for the center channel. I didn't have to do this in my Volvo as the mid/tweet was relatively equidistant to the listener as the midbass. Not so in this particular installation. I will be able to use the mini-dsp to set a relative time delay of the midbass to sync it up with the MTM in the dash. Then I can run the MS-8 calibration and all should be good in the world.


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## bbfoto

Awesome work, Trevor. 

x2, Mad Props for pulling the dash.

Great pics as well...helps a lot!

Your space looks very well organized and minimalistic...it's funny/weird because it's identical to every other photographer that I know. 

Good luck with the install. Looks like you will have a very nice setup.


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## trevordj

Thank you, hopefully I will finish the sound deadening soon and actually get to some cool stuff. I have some good ideas... whether I can pull them off is a different story .


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## m3gunner

Subbed... how are you going to get by without the Dynaudio vibe?


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## mattyjman

trevordj said:


> t3sn4f2 I have another question for you, how the hell do you pronounce your username ? Seriously, I have been trying to figure it out since 2009, I'm a little slow .


haha, same here. just thought i was the only one that didn't get it, since he's been around for so long... now i know


----------



## trevordj

m3gunner said:


> Subbed... how are you going to get by without the Dynaudio vibe?


Seriously, I am worried about that. I am banking on the Vifa drivers being very good and installation being just as, if not more important than high end driver selection. Hopefully I am right .


----------



## trevordj

I got some work done today, definitely not as much as I wanted to, but it was progress nonetheless. 

I finished the sound deadening throughout the passenger cabin. I still have to do the doors though.




























I also started running the power wire. I drilled a 1.125" hole through my passenger side firewall after carefully measuring and remeasuring from both sides of the firewall to make sure I wasn't going to drill through anything other than sheet metal. 



















And then I gave it a couple good coats of self-etching primer to prevent rust (I didn't worry about painting the factory jute, this is covered by my aftermarket sound deadener and the carpet). 










For those of you wondering why I didn't just route my wire through the factory rubber boot like most others do, I will explain. First, I don't believe this is the best way to run the wire. cutting into the factory rubber boot, even if the wire fits pretty tight, still introduces the chance for water leakage. Not to mention it opens up the possibility of damaging the factory wiring. On top of that, I will be entering this car into sound quality and install competitions and therefore need to have the wire run through its own firewall grommet (among many other requirements). In short, I think this is the best way to do it for my particular purposes. 

After the primer has a chance to dry overnight I will install the firewall grommet and run the power wire. I will also be running all of my speaker wire, and remote wire tomorrow before putting the carpet and seats back in. Tonight I will be spending some time with my center console and finalizing my center channel design. If all goes well I will be starting the upper (mid and tweet) baffle tomorrow.


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## ErinH

digging the install, man. Lots of careful attention to detail. 

How hard was removing the dash? Just curious. About to get my wife a 2010 Accord and plan to do a pretty simple audio upgrade which may or may not require removal of the dash. I know the 2 models differ but just curious what the overall effort was for removal of yours.

- Erin


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## trevordj

bikinpunk said:


> digging the install, man. Lots of careful attention to detail.
> 
> How hard was removing the dash? Just curious. About to get my wife a 2010 Accord and plan to do a pretty simple audio upgrade which may or may not require removal of the dash. I know the 2 models differ but just curious what the overall effort was for removal of yours.
> 
> - Erin


Thanks Erin, I really appreciate that coming from you. The dash was much more intimidating to remove in theory than reality. I was surprised by how logical it was to remove everything, something I have enjoyed throughout the deconstruction of the Accord (especially compared to my Volvo). The biggest snag removing the dash was trying to figure out how to remove the head unit. Once I figured out there were two hidden screws underneath, everything else was a breeze. It was kinda scary removing the passenger airbag, but was easily done by removing a couple nuts and disconnecting the molex connector. 

If you do end up getting an Accord for your wife and decide to remove the dash send me a message. I will be happy to help as much as I can.


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## ErinH

sounds simple enough. I removed the dash in my civic and it was a PITA. the nuts were in awkward plces that my screwdrivers weren't happy to get to and the majority of the dash assembly itself comes out as one large piece which makes it a chore to remove yourself. I was hoping the Accord wasn't quite a pain.


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## trevordj

Ya, it really isn't bad at all. I think there are about 12 small bolts than need removed, the most hidden of which are the aforementioned ones under the head unit. there are also a couple under the a pillars that tok me a few minutes to find. Overall, not bad at all. I don't think it will be a problem for you.


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## ErinH

cool. 


Well, I don't want to keep dumping. I just started searching the forum for newer accord installs and saw this one and was really impressed with the work you've put in it so wanted to let you know. 

thanks for the input.

- Erin


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## trevordj

No dumping at all. In fact, PM me your email. I have a digital copy of the 3000 page 2008-2010 Accord Hanes Repair Manual. It has detailed step by step instructions how to remove the dash. I forgot that I downloaded it but figured I could use it as a reference if I got stuck on my car. 

Are you looking at the V6 or the 4 banger? I have manuals for both.


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## trevordj

Not much more progress to report from the weekend. I had to finish a related project before I could start on the center channel. I have been meaning to put together my vacuum pump so I can get going on some of the composite construction, but I just hadn't gotten around to it until yesterday. Now I have the vacuum pump up and going so it is full steam ahead building my concept for the center channel. Here is what I came up with: 

Stock dash










Upper center channel in a MTM arrangement 










The final design will be somewhat more complex than this. This is just a digital mock up to map out the overall driver and baffle arrangement. I am somewhat limited by space. I cannot take the midranges any farther toward the front seats, the upper display mounting structure takes up too much space. In the end I played with some of the lines in the stock dash and tried to get something that would integrate well into the interior. Ideally the midranges would be closer together, but the mounting takes up quite a bit of space "behind the scenes. To mount these, I will mold screws into the rear of the baffle and reverse mount the drivers. 

The "more complex" part of the center, well that will just have to wait . It will be cool though.


----------



## mattyjman

that makes me horny... 

jk... but it looks nice. can't wait to see the build up of it


----------



## trevordj

Hahaha! Thanks Matty. 

I made a little bit of progress today. First, I finally finished up my vacuum setup (which needed to be done before I can do any composite work I have planned). Here is what it looks like: 










Nothing fancy, I just followed the project EVS plans over on joewoodworker.com. I am still waiting on a couple fittings so I can finish my DIY resin trap and be able to connect my bag adapter. I am definitely excited to start doing some stuff with the vacuum. 

I got the template converted to a vector format in illustrator so I can use it to cut things out. There are actually four templates, one for the top piece, one for the bottom piece, one for a trim ring that will attach to the dash, and one for a trim ring that will serve as a frame for speaker grill material. If anyone ever wants a copy of these files in vector format to repeat this I am happy to share my work . 



















Here is the first printout cut and applied to a piece of hardboard ready for cutting










And here it is cut out and rough sanded to the lines. I realized I wasted my time carefully cutting out the template with scissors. In the future I will just rough cut it and spray adhesive it to the hardboard eliminating the whole cutting twice thing. This will increase precision. This piece will serve as a master template that I will use to duplicate parts with a flush trim bit. All the work is in making the template so I want to keep a copy of it in case I run into problems. I have made some changes to the template since cutting this so I will use this as a practice piece and cut the real templates out with the new diagrams above. 










Here is the mockup of the drivers after some more sanding. 










After taking some measurements with my calipers I am very happy with the symmetry of the template. My cuts were, at worst 3/100's of an inch different side to side. Not too shabby for cutting these by hand.


----------



## trevordj

I have been meaning to run my wires and get some of the interior back in the car for a couple days. Unfortunately that plan is on hold as I wait for some split loom to cover the power wire in the engine compartment (so it appears OEM). I got some 1/2" split loom delivered today, but it is too small. I ordered some 5/8" and 3/4" just in case today so I should be able to wrap that up Thursday. 

It's always the little things . 

The good news is my MiniDSP came in the mail today. Not that I really need it yet, but I was surprised how fast it shipped from China.


----------



## trevordj

Well, things have been slow. I have been working my ass off for the last week but feel I have just been spinning my wheels. Part of this is my relative inexperience using the router. I have pretty much used it only for cutting circles and other basic shapes. It turns out my center channel is far from basic. 

Anyway, my above plans simply will not work. I failed to account for the thickness of upholstery and gasket tape not to mention I cut a large part of all the above parts free hand (I used the jasper circle jig where I could then cut the rest out with a jig saw. They all look fine individually, but when assembled all of the imperfections became blatantly obvious. Some of my lines will show in the final part, and this will be on my dash so it has to be perfect or I will not move forward. 

On top of all of that, the space around the speakers is simply too small to do what I want to do. The design needed tweaking. 

Much of the entire last week has been spent redrafting, cutting, testing, rinse, lather, repeat. I eventually concluded I needed to design the entire shape with the ability to be cut with jigs (REALLY I need to set up a CNC, but I don't have the space, time, or money right now. When I move in a year I will build a dedicated shop and will be able to set up a CNC). This means I had to build an ellipse jig and redesign the drawing so I know the size of each ellipse to cut. Here is the final design: 










And the rendering










As you may or may not be able to see, the new final design is a combination of 4 ellipses, 10 circles, two straight lines, and 2 squares. My new plan is to cut this single part as a master template and then use pattern guides to derive the other parts of the final baffle. It is complicated, but I have a final design goal in mind and think this extra work will be well worth the hassle. 

Here is the ellipse jig I fabricated. It is a piece of aluminum stock bolted to the sub base of my router fitted with two shower door rollers that ride in a groove created by screwed down pieces of wood properly spaced apart. It took quite awhile to get to this point. 



















Here is a video showing how the jig works. Sorry for the music, it was playing on Pandora in the shop during the filming and I didn't have the energy to edit it out. 






I know it seems I am getting a bit lost in this whole process, but I have always been slow (I like to call it methodical). This is all pretty new for me so it is taking me some time to get it right. I want to be 100% sure everything is there before I go drilling into, and potentially ruining, my dash (which will cost $470 to replace if I get it wrong). 

Here is the final master template cut out of 1/8" hardboard and massaged to perfection (I know it doesn't look like muck but I think I will be sleeping with this thing tonight, it has taken me at least a week to get right). 










Here is the master template mocked up on the dash. Notice how the lines close to the defrost vent fit perfectly. Also notice how the front curve compliments the curve at the front of the dash (hard to see because of that stupid shadow I just noticed). These, along with technically figuring out how to make an ellipse jig) are why this thing took so long to get right. 










Tomorrow I am hoping to use template guides to cut the rest of the parts. We all know how I am with meeting my daily timeline goals though :blush:. 

Luckily I actually did check something off my to do list today. I was able to make a mounting bracket for the stereo's main fuse. 

I started with a piece of 1/8" aluminum stock from Home Depot










I used a bunch of different clamps and some good old fashioned elbow grease to bend it into the shape I was looking for



















The bracket ended up not fitting so I had to cut the long end down a bit, re-bend it, and re-drill it. Holes were drilled for the fuse holder and everything was mocked up










After a couple coats of black self etching primer and some satin clear coat, here is the final part










Mocked up with the fuse holder










The paint is still soft so I am being patient and will install it tomorrow. Now that the fuse is sorted I will also run the power through the firewall (already drilled and grommeted above) and through the passenger cabin to the trunk. 

That's it for now. I promise I haven't been slacking, this **** is just really tedious. I think the final outcome will be well worth the wait. Thanks for looking.


----------



## trevordj

Some more progress today. 

I started the day by crimping the power lug. Well, actually, first I had to modify the lug. I've never been a big fan of simply bolting the power wire to the battery terminal and then letting the cable just kinda float in space. I want the engine compartment to look like all this **** was supposed to be there from the factory. Unfortunately, the Honda OEM cable clamp is pretty minimalist and just has a single crimp in the business end. It came down to either running an aftermarket battery clamp and ditching the OEM look (again, not what I wanted to do) or molding the cable lug around the terminal and integrating it into the OEM panels. I like how it turned out. Minimalist but effective. 

All connections received a little bit of dielectric grease to prevent corrosion










I got to use my new harbor freight hydraulic crimper, this thing is SWEET!










I had to modify the plastic housing sitting over the battery clamp to get this to work, but I figured it out. This will add a further layer of protection covering the connection. I also painted the outside of the lug to further protect it (I did not paint the inside of the lug to promote a proper metal to metal connection). Further, the painted area around the bold was also stripped to encourage good electrical contact. 










The fuse end of the battery cable (about 10 inches of cable from the battery) received some solder to prevent stray wires from escaping from the connection, then some eletrical tape and heatshrink to hold the tech flex. 



















The outgoing side of the fuse holder received the same treatment










All cables in the engine bay also received some split loom. I actually hate working with this stuff, but I think it adds an extra layer of protection and it keeps with the OEM appearing theme of the engine bay. 

The outgoing cable was carefully worked around the air filter housing 










followed by the fuse panel housing










I had to unbolt the air filter housing and fuse panel housing to run the power wire down the firewall following the OEM wiring. These next few pictures are my attempt to illustrate cable tie downs were appropriately added every five to eight inches. These were VERY tight quarters and, for the most part, I was securing all of these zip ties one handed. It was tough. 




























Along the firewall










And through the already installed firewall grommet










The grommet threads received a treatment of CA glue as a thread locker, the plastic threads cannot be tightened very much so this adds an extra degree of security.


----------



## trevordj

Here is the power all buttoned up, including a couple shots of the custom made bracket I fabricated yesterday. Also note that all the threads on the fuse holder received a healthy amount of locktite to prevent loosening. 



















This is just a birds eye view of all the wiring in place. Everything appears OEM except the necessary fuse that was added.


----------



## trevordj

Here is a shot from the passenger cabin of the power wire coming through the firewall. I roughly ran the power under the sound deadener. All of this will be properly secured later. 





































The power wire was run through existing holes in the seat rail. Of course each of these holes received a 5/8" grommet


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content



















That is it for the power wire for today.


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## trevordj

I got a little work done on the center channel before the sun went down as well. I was able to transfer my thin template to a 1/2" MDF master template. 










The quality of this template (symmetry, precision, accuracy, little finishing work required) is excellent










I cut out a working template and the outline of two sections of the final part. 










How is this for precision (this is three separate panels all cut at different times from the same master template)?










Now I just have to figure out how to make some negatives from my positive template so I can cut some of the other pieces. I have been doing some reading on this but if anyone has any insight I am all ears. 

That is it for today. Thanks for looking.


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## IBcivic

Impressive, Plz keep it coming. :thumbsup:


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## strong*I*bumpin

trevordj said:


> I got a little work done on the center channel before the sun went down as well. I was able to transfer my thin template to a 1/2" MDF master template.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The quality of this template (symmetry, precision, accuracy, little finishing work required) is excellent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut out a working template and the outline of two sections of the final part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is this for precision (this is three separate panels all cut at different times from the same master template)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I just have to figure out how to make some negatives from my positive template so I can cut some of the other pieces. I have been doing some reading on this but if anyone has any insight I am all ears.
> 
> That is it for today. Thanks for looking.


Nice work dude,keep it coming.Whats up with 5-0 in the background? :worried:


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## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


> Here is the power all buttoned up, including a couple shots of the custom made bracket I fabricated yesterday. Also note that all the threads on the fuse holder received a healthy amount of locktite to prevent loosening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is just a birds eye view of all the wiring in place. Everything appears OEM except the necessary fuse that was added.



Nice!


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## trevordj

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Nice work dude,keep it coming.Whats up with 5-0 in the background? :worried:


Good eye, that's my neighbor. He's a good dude so I am not in trouble (yet/that I know of).


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## strong*I*bumpin

trevordj said:


> Good eye, that's my neighbor. He's a good dude so I am not in trouble (yet/that I know of).


I have an '11 Accord so its nice to see what folks are doing with their 9th Gen.I been following this thread here as well as the DriveAccord site.My back aches just looking at the tear down then to put it all back together  ,kudos to you.


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## trevordj

strong*I*bumpin said:


> I have an '11 Accord so its nice to see what folks are doing with their 9th Gen.I been following this thread here as well as the DriveAccord site.My back aches just looking at the tear down then to put it all back together  ,kudos to you.


Thanks man! Well, I haven't gotten to that whole "putting it back together" stage yet, but I am anticipating that I will be able to do it. I didn't really anticipate having my dash out this long (well, I didn't really anticipate having it out at all, but once I started digging into it I realized it was reasonably possible).


----------



## bbfoto

Great work on the wiring and templates. Doin' it right.

As far as the negative template, do you have a plunge base for your router? You will need a Top Bearing Pattern Cutting Bit. http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=top%20bearing%20flush%20trim%20router%20bit

Or pick up a set of "router template guide bushings". I like the Wood River brass set from Woodcraft.com. These are a standard size (usually 1-1/4" diameter for most routers, but double-check yours) and they screw or snap into the center hole in your router base. Use your positive template to cut an oversized negative cutout with a 1/2" or larger plunge bit. This will be your template to produce the negative part.. Then use a smaller diameter cutting bit and the appropriate diameter guide bushing to adjust the "offset" back to the original size of your positive piece and cut your negative part. Search YouTube for demos.

Buy 10 Piece Router Bushing Set With Case at Woodcraft

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1522


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## trevordj

Thanks man. Ya, I have a plunge base and a set of router template guides I am just getting less than satisfactory results using them (I have never used them before). The negatives I have from cutting out the positive are all chewed to **** as I did them using the fixed base on a router table (so I cut through the negative when I made them). Yesterday I used the template guides to try and do what I wanted and it definitely worked for cutting the negative. Now I am running into the problem of, when I cut the other positive side of the ring (after the negative is cut) the ring is breaking (it is pretty small and fragile). I think I am going to go a different direction with this portion because I have been spinning my wheels for the last couple days trying to figure it out). I think an easier solution will be to use low temperature plastic to do what I want to do. 

I post some pictures that illustrate this here in a minute


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## trevordj

Ok, here are the two baffles. The smaller, top baffle will be finished in carbon fiber and hide the mounting of the speakers below. 










And here is one of the negatives I cut










This shows why I need the negative. 










I need to cut two trim rings, one that sits flush with the lower baffle that will mold directly into my dash (because it will be impossible to get a perfect cutout on the dash) and that will serve as a mounting point for the stock vinyl, I will roll the vinyl over this trim ring before I glue the trim ring down to the lower baffle (red arrow). The other trim ring will sit flush with the outside I the smaller baffle (blue arrow). This will butt up against the larger trim ring and allow a friction mount of a grill to cover everything. 

Low temp plastic would normally work well for this, but I need the plastic to be a bit more rigid so it holds its shape after molding around the baffle. This is necessary because I will be wrapping the stock vinyl around the trim ring before final attachment to the lower baffle. This will provide a clean interface between the carbon fiber trim ring and the cut dash. 

Clear as mud? I can see exactly what I want to do in my head I just don't know the best way to do it. After talking to a couple plastics suppliers I think ABS plastic might be the way to go. 

Thoughts?


----------



## beaster24

I am curious to see if you get any sort of bluetooth echo with a dsp hooked up. I have a 2012 civic si and looking to redo all of the audio, but don't want to go through the trouble if I have to add a separate speaker and amp just for the phone. Please let me know when you hook everything up.


----------



## trevordj

beaster24 said:


> I am curious to see if you get any sort of bluetooth echo with a dsp hooked up. I have a 2012 civic si and looking to redo all of the audio, but don't want to go through the trouble if I have to add a separate speaker and amp just for the phone. Please let me know when you hook everything up.


You wouldn't have to add an amplifier. At the very worst you would have to set up a separate wideband driver running off your stock head unit's front outputs and run the MS-8 on the rear outputs. Fade the OEM setup all the way to the rear. When a bluetooth call comes in, it will only play through the front speakers (that's just how the cars are setup) thus bypassing the MS-8. It isn't the most exciting solution, but I did this in my Volvo and it worked well. I'm going to go forward without doing this and see if I get the echo though. 

The widbanders don't have to be mounted anywhere complicated. I ran them free air in a simple baffle mounted in my Volvo under the seats (firing toward the front of the car) and they sounded just fine.


----------



## beaster24

trevordj said:


> You wouldn't have to add an amplifier. At the very worst you would have to set up a separate wideband driver running off your stock head unit's front outputs and run the MS-8 on the rear outputs. Fade the OEM setup all the way to the rear. When a bluetooth call comes in, it will only play through the front speakers (that's just how the cars are setup) thus bypassing the MS-8. It isn't the most exciting solution, but I did this in my Volvo and it worked well. I'm going to go forward without doing this and see if I get the echo though.
> 
> The widbanders don't have to be mounted anywhere complicated. I ran them free air in a simple baffle mounted in my Volvo under the seats (firing toward the front of the car) and they sounded just fine.


Yeah I've seen that fix and can't decide if that's what I want to do yet bc I'm possibly thinking of removing the stock amp entirely and putting the dsp in its spot. Reading around today I did see a fix to reprogram the ms8 to undo all eq with pressing the mute button but the only downfall with that is you have to press the mute button on the controller before you answer the call. What size driver did you use under your seat and did you run one or two?


----------



## optimaprime

dude this a very nice build you have. i dig the sounds in the garage to!! how you like those orb speakers?


----------



## trevordj

beaster24 said:


> Yeah I've seen that fix and can't decide if that's what I want to do yet bc I'm possibly thinking of removing the stock amp entirely and putting the dsp in its spot. Reading around today I did see a fix to reprogram the ms8 to undo all eq with pressing the mute button but the only downfall with that is you have to press the mute button on the controller before you answer the call. What size driver did you use under your seat and did you run one or two?


I used two drivers, one under each seat. I installed the Vifa TC9s which happen to be a very nice, capable driver (worthy of better uses than this) but are super affordable. They are 3.5" diameter. 

The mute button solution is less than optimal too. It's unfortunate that there just isn't an echo issue but I think adding the extra drivers is a better solution. I would hate to have to fumble around to find the mute button every time a call came through. The trade off is, of course, you have to mount and purchase extra speakers. 

Of course, if you are removing the OEM amplifier you don't really have a lot of options. I suppose you could run a chip amp (something like this) off the front preamplifier outputs and run the MS-8 off the rear preamp outputs. Either that or leave the OEM amplifier in and mount the MS-8 somewhere else. 

In the end maybe the Accord (and Civic) will not have the echo issue. I have done a bunch of poking around and actually haven't heard that it is an issue. My fingers are crossed. Just in case, I have a set of TC9s on hand to install if necessary. 



optimaprime said:


> dude this a very nice build you have. i dig the sounds in the garage to!! how you like those orb speakers?


Thank you! The orbs are very nice speakers. They have a very high wife acceptance factor which is how I ended up with them. I have a 5.1 mod4 setup in my living room that sounds phenomenal. The one thing you get with an array of point source drivers is fantastic sounding midrange (with little to no exaggerated sibilance). My garage setup has a mod 2 stereo setup which suffers a bit in the midbass department, but I just cross my sub a little higher and it kicks ass.


----------



## mattyjman

trevor, went and test drove one of these just a few hours ago, inspired by your thread. 

looks like a really nice canvas for an install, but the car is super nice too... much better quality it seems than in years past. i'm, to say the least, impressed, and wouldn't mind driving one myself. good choice on the car


----------



## trevordj

Thanks Matty. I know the Accord doesn't have the cool factor of, say, a Camaro or my previous Volvo but I was very impressed with the fit and finish. They definitely got their **** together after kinda falling off the radar the last couple years. 

I will have some updates by the end of the today. My upper center channel baffle is on hold until I get some plastic (it should be here Tuesday). Today I am working on my center channel midbass. It is damn hot so hard to stay out there for more than an hour or two without taking a break.


----------



## JayinMI

mattyjman said:


> trevor, went and test drove one of these just a few hours ago..."


Uh oh....LOL

Jay


----------



## mattyjman

JayinMI said:


> Uh oh....LOL
> 
> Jay


hah, i'm keeping the camaro ... don't you worry... i was looking for more of a daily driver anyway


----------



## trevordj

Alright, here is my update for the day. I had to put the upper dash center channel baffle on hold until I receive some plastic in the mail on Tuesday. In the mean time I decided to get started on the center channel midbass. 

You will recall that this is what the area behind the shifter looked like previously. 










This is a poor use of space and overall a less than desirable layout in my opinion. I hate that the USB and aux power are visible. I like to keep a 160GB ipod always hooked in my car. Having a USB always plugged in and visible is like an invitation to get burglarized. Furthermore, the cubby over the USB is pretty small and not very useable. This stuff belongs somewhere else. I have better plans for this area.

I started by disassembling the door over the cubby










Then I performed some surgery










I wanted to retain the outer frames of these two pieces as they integrate with the faux brushed aluminum trim. 

After some measurements I realized I will be cutting it very close to my desired volume for this space. To get a few more cubic inches I removed the factory bluetooth module. By pure dumb luck I realized that by removing the now unused ANC module I am now able to reverse mount the bluetooth module and gain a few inches. This required grinding off the mounting points and re welding them on the other side. This is actually my first time welding. It's ugly (and I had the amperage set too high), but it got the job done. 



















The bluetooth module used to sit here, now it is above this bracket where the ANC used to sit. 










All cleared out



















The eventual home of the center midbass. 










I put some cardboard in for some temporary support and started taping everything up










Taped










After 5 coats of mold release wax and three coats of release film I was ready to party










I layed down about 3 layers of 3/4 oz chopped strand mat and 5 layers of 1.5 oz chopped strand. With that undercut in the dash I am concerned about releasing this from the mold, but hopefully it comes out. That's one reason why I prepped so much. 



















That's it for now. I will cut out the baffle tomorrow and start working on the beauty panel that will cover this. This will be a ported enclosure so I ned to order the ports tonight as well. These Vifa NE149s model beautifully in a 0.158 cu ft box tuned to about 60 hz.


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

Simply ballzee,still watching mang!


----------



## bbfoto

Yeah Mon, lookin' real fine.

You might as well make 2 of everything so when mattyjman picks up his new Accord he's all set and you can recoup some of the costs of your build by charging him through the nose for Plug-And-Play parts. 

BTW, WTH is the origin of that phrase?! Weird.


----------



## KyleMDunn

trevordj said:


>


That is going to be sick...


----------



## trevordj

Thanks guys, I should have some updates in the next day or two. I got the plastic I was waiting for so cutting the top of the dash will begin after I measure 100 more times. 

For the center midbass, this also illustrates why I went with 5.25" drivers instead of bigger. I really started with planning the center channel and then going from there. Anything larger than 5.25" would either require a ton more modification to fit, or there would not be enough space for trim panels to make everything look purdy.


----------



## JayinMI

bbfoto said:


> Yeah Mon, lookin' real fine.
> 
> You might as well make 2 of everything so when mattyjman picks up his new Accord he's all set and you can recoup some of the costs of your build by charging him through the nose for Plug-And-Play parts.
> 
> BTW, WTH is the origin of that phrase?! Weird.


I think it means they just fit and work. You don't have to modify them to do their job. Or did you mean the "through the nose" part? LOL

Jay


----------



## quietfly

thats a kick ass place for a center mid...


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## trevordj

Ya, I think it will work nicely. I had a midbass in that area in my Volvo, but it was behind the floating center console. I think, if anything, it will be even better in this car being relatively unobstructed. I am glad that I will be able to use the MiniDSP for TA and crossover of the center MB and MTM array. They are far enough apart that I think it is necessary. In my last build I simply used the onboard crossovers in my amplifier for this but the speakers were pretty much equidistant to the listener. Now, the pathlength to the MTM array is much longer relative to the midbass. Overall I think it is a reasonalbe arrangement even though I had to comprimise by using the smaller, 5.25" drivers for midbass duty. 

I will probably be a bit unconventional with my subwoofer crossovers as a result of the smaller midbass though, I am thinking of crossing them in the 120-150hz range. It would be ideal to cross my midbass drivers at least two octave above port tuning (port tuning will be around 80hz so 320hz would be two octave higher) but that probably will not happen for obvious reasons.


----------



## trevordj

I cannot believe how long it is taking me to get this center channel installed in the car. I have been working on this for like 3 weeks now. After continuing to pretty much get nowhere for the past week (I've been working on this every night and weekend as much as possible), I finally made some tangible progress today. 

Here is where I am with the center channel baffle setup. It has taken me weeks to get these pieces made to my satisfaction. I have a pile of rejected pieces that needed tweaking in either design, size, or router execution n my garage. Like I said, I wasn't going to cut my dash until I had this thing perfect. 










I started by gutting the internals of the dash behind the upper display. 

Before










After










I got my lines laid down for cutting










No turning back now










To avoid reupholstering the whole dash, I used a blunt plastic tool to raise the stock vinyl where I wanted to cut. 










It took me about 2 hours to slowly cut the dash from the underside with my dremel while holding the vinyl away from the cut line on the opposite side. One slip with the dremmel and I would be reupholstering the whole dash. 










After some more trimming I was able to get the trim ring to fit. I got it buttoned into place with some duraglas and some super glue. This will require a little trimming to fit with the stock upper display, but it will work!










Here is how everything will come together. That upper trim piece will be finished in carbon fiber and will, of course, be flush to slightly recessed in the dash. After the carbon fiber there will be three custom made grills, one molded over each speaker, that make everything look nice and neat. The vinyl hasn't been glued down to the trim ring yet so it looks pretty wrinkly, that will also be fixed. 





































That's it for now, sorry for the slow updates. I have been working on this thing tirelessly but just don't have a lot to show for it other than what you see in front of you. 

This week I will take some time to add some duraglas around the topside of the trim ring to flush it into the dash and add some strength. It will be tough because I will be working underneath the vinyl that will eventually finish it but I think I can do it. 

It's finally starting to come together though so hopefully you see where I am going with this.


----------



## Bluenote

Good job, your patience is paying off nicely!


----------



## gtsdohcvvtli

Heads up on your ANC and OEM Bluetooth. I noticed u said you'll b using the rear outputs only. You might find you won't hear anything on the Bluetooth hands free end due to the front channels being used for in call playback. 

And if I remember correctly, completely disconnecting the ANC module might interfere with the Bluetooth functionality cause of the in call noise and echo canclelation. ANC cancles noise on both BT calls and during normal audio playback. Theres one mic in the rear and two up front in the overhead pocket. The two in the front are housed in the same module. I'm sure u already notice that during ur build. 

Simple way to disable ANC without completly removing the module and still avoid feed back with aftermarket audio is to completely disconnect the rear mic. The front mic assembly has two white wire in its harness. Ones a heavier gauge than the other but not by much. Snip the thicker white wire if my memory serves me right.


----------



## IBcivic

Trevor, this center channel set-up is going to be bad ass! Impressive


----------



## t3sn4f2

double post


----------



## t3sn4f2

trevordj said:


>


Looking good as always! 

A suggestion if I may. You might want to also add some perpendicular braces that attach to those display ribs. That's assuming of course your highpass will be low enough to cause some type of resonance.


----------



## quietfly

awesome!!!! looks fantastic!!!


----------



## trevordj

t3sn4f2 said:


> Looking good as always!
> 
> A suggestion if I may. You might want to also add some perpendicular braces that attach to those display ribs. That's assuming of course your highpass will be low enough to cause some type of resonance.


Thank you for the suggestion. I agree, I will definitely add some bracing likely in the form of some wooden dowels. I don't know that resonance will be too big an issue with those little 2.5" drivers, but I would like to reinforce the underside if the dash (to make up for the plastic supports I removed) and I would like something holding that trim ring in place other than duraglas. Taming resonance will certainly be icing on the cake. Thanks again for the suggestions, keep them coming.


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## mattyjman

Nice work and the drive for perfection... patience is something you seem to have much more than I. The center channel will look really nice when done


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## ecbmxer

Looks great!


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## Eggroll

Awesome work on this install. Subscribing!


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## shawnk

Subscribed!

Very nice work and attention to detail!

Good luck with the rest and I can't wait to see more!


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## trevordj

Thanks guys! Shawn I appreciate the compliment, I have followed your Accord build for some time. Let's just say I will be happy if this turns out even half as nice!


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## shawnk

trevordj said:


> Thanks guys! Shawn I appreciate the compliment, I have followed your Accord build for some time. Let's just say I will be happy if this turns out even half as nice!


I can tell already it will turn out great! And thanks for your kind words!


----------



## req

wow dude.

you have balls


----------



## Fricasseekid

Sub'd


----------



## Snills

Hello - 
I just found your post...
FYI - I put an MS8, sub and Amps in my 2012 crosstour and have spent many fun months tweaking and tearing things apart...etc....nowhere near the work your doing. I could not figure out how to fully remove that dash so just did some careful cutting from underneath.

For what its worth, I just disconnected Connector C (ANC) on the back of the head unit, and as long as I'm listen to music, I don't hear the annoying engine Hum at ~2k rpm, (I tend to use D3 when I can though). If memory serves, disconnecting Mics did NOT eliminate the Sub-cancel hum which I think uses engine pulse along with mics.

But in hind site, I wish I would have just left the stock sub in and let it do its noise cancellation, then built my MS8 system "around" the stock system somehow. I'd think Blue tooth would have work fine that way as well.

Mine is a budget build for now....I've tried both 5.1, 7.1 and I prefer: 5.1 (2 way front, center and backs) l'm really enjoying your post, and wish I'd had your pics before I started cutting holes!

If your new to MS8, don't under estimate the benefit of level matching before and after calibrating. At first I hated the L7 "center mono affect", but was blown away when I brought that back level up which really helped bring our the Front L\R channels. Now it truly feels like I hear different sounds from every direction.

God I wish I could hear that car when your done!
Bill


----------



## trevordj

It sounds like a broken record, but I didn't get as much done this weekend as I thought I would. I really don't know where the time goes, I am spending about 10 hours/day on the weekends and a few hours here and there during the week... and I haven't been able to drive my car in a month. I just have a few more boxes to check off the list and then I will be able to get the dash in and at least drive the car again. 

I tried my hand at vacuum forming a carbon fiber overlay this weekend. I have done wet layups by hand in the past so I was looking forward to doing vacuum clamping to improve the final outcome. I tried to do it with polyester resin and it just didn't give me enough time to get the vacuum together before the resin was starting to gel. In either case, I will have to remake the top cover as I kinda screwed this one up. It doesn't look too bad, just a few fibers got burned during sanding because they didn't lay down properly. I think using an epoxy will give me a longer working time and allow me to get everything set up properly to avoid some of the problems I was having. 

Here is what I did though: 

My first vacuum form (just scrap)










The whole DIY setup










My attempt at covering the final part










I don't have any pictures of the screwed up part, I will cut a new piece and hopefully try again one evening this week. 

In other news, I got my dash prepped under the vinyl and covered with the carefully preserved stock vinyl. It isn't absolutely perfect, but really the best I could do given the circumstances of doing bodywork underneath existing vinyl without hurting said vinyl. As I was working the vinyl I had one section start to tear on me so I had to leave well enough alone. There are some tiny wrinkles that I tried to show in the third photo but these took a very sweeping light to be show up (notice they aren't noticeable in the other photos). This problem area is stuffed up under the winshield so I don't think it will be noticeable in the car (I hate saying that, it is like making excuses for bad work, I just couldn't keep stretching the vinyl because it was tearing, if I kept going I would have been re-wraping the whole dash). 

Oh, this is my first time wrapping vinyl too, so I probably just have a lot to learn :blush:. 



















After trimming the ring, I finally got the stock upper display to fit! You can see just what kind of space I am working with here. This setup could not have been a centimeter larger or it would not have fit. 










I build a network of plastic ribs to support the underside of the dash I cut away and to create a mount for the baffle. 



















Here is the baffle all mounted up. 










I have an MTM array in my dash!!! That is pretty badass. Now I just need to recut the cover, fill the gaps with duraglas to it fits nice and tight, lay down carbon fiber, and build the grills. 

I turned my attention to the center midbass. This is where I spent the majority of my time today. This midbass box is deceivingly complicated to mount in the car. Its hard to describe in words or pictures, but basically I have had to redo a bunch of factory mounts because the presence of the midbass enclosure requires me to remove the center console trim and the trim over the shifter before I can get it out. This meant about a million times putting everything in the car, mocking everything up, getting stuck, removing everything again, and repeating the process until I was able to get everything to fit. 

I also needed to come up with a way to mount the midbass enclosure, I am particularly proud of my solution to this problem. 

I knew I wanted to mount the midbass enclosure to the metal frame holding up the dash. I thought it would be particularly convenient if I utilized the bolts that hold in the lower center dash and the center console. Because of the way the trim sits over this, and given my requirement that I have to have certain trim pieces out before I can remove the midbass enclosure, I had to remove some mounts to get this to happen. The removed mounts will be fine, the plastic piece I removed mounts for will be integrated into the midbass enclosure so it will be held in place with bolts now. 

This is all pretty hard to describe, trust me, it was challenging and tedious. 

Here are the mounts I want to use










And this is where I started, by cutting a piece of 1/8" aluminum stock










After cutting a groove through the enclosure, here is where I ended up. You can probably see where I am going with the aluminum stock now. 



















After some more trimming, I glued everything in place with some thickened epoxy adhesive










I then reinforced everything with some duraglas from below and above










I then glued the plastic pieces (the remnants of the useless storage cubby and the usb/power cubby) with some duraglas










That's all I have to show for the weekend. As for the midbass enclosure, I still need to cut the baffle, and mount the baffle to the enclosure (along with the ports and speaker). I also need to cut the trim panel, flush it to the stock panels with some duraglas, and then cover it in carbon fiber and build the grill. 

I am working on the upper and lower center channel simultaneously as I will need to cover both in carbon fiber and hopefully I can do double duty with both during final clear coating.


----------



## trevordj

Snills said:


> Hello -
> I just found your post...
> FYI - I put an MS8, sub and Amps in my 2012 crosstour and have spent many fun months tweaking and tearing things apart...etc....nowhere near the work your doing. I could not figure out how to fully remove that dash so just did some careful cutting from underneath.
> 
> For what its worth, I just disconnected Connector C (ANC) on the back of the head unit, and as long as I'm listen to music, I don't hear the annoying engine Hum at ~2k rpm, (I tend to use D3 when I can though). If memory serves, disconnecting Mics did NOT eliminate the Sub-cancel hum which I think uses engine pulse along with mics.
> 
> But in hind site, I wish I would have just left the stock sub in and let it do its noise cancellation, then built my MS8 system "around" the stock system somehow. I'd think Blue tooth would have work fine that way as well.
> 
> Mine is a budget build for now....I've tried both 5.1, 7.1 and I prefer: 5.1 (2 way front, center and backs) l'm really enjoying your post, and wish I'd had your pics before I started cutting holes!
> 
> If your new to MS8, don't under estimate the benefit of level matching before and after calibrating. At first I hated the L7 "center mono affect", but was blown away when I brought that back level up which really helped bring our the Front L\R channels. Now it truly feels like I hear different sounds from every direction.
> 
> God I wish I could hear that car when your done!
> Bill


Thanks, this is my second car with an MS-8. The downside of the MS-8 is that, once I got everything set in my last car I didn't have to mess with it for several years. Now I am going to have to remember all those quirky tricks to get everything set up right. 

With your crosstour, did you get the bluetooth echo issue that is common with the MS-8 (ie the listener gets an echo of the conversation through the microphone)? I had this problem in my Volvo but am wondering if I will have to do the same workaround for this car.


----------



## Snills

Yes,
But I'm running MS8 off of HU Front channels...
I tried adjusting MS8, Amp, HU settings but never found a way to get rid of the echo. But maybe your 2013 HU is different. 

I'll try your idea of switching the MS8 to back channels and add a "phone speaker" up front....So your saying the HU turns off back channels for Bluetooth? That would be very cool to have Blue tooth back!

Bill


----------



## trevordj

Snills said:


> Yes,
> But I'm running MS8 off of HU Front channels...
> I tried adjusting MS8, Amp, HU settings but never found a way to get rid of the echo. But maybe your 2013 HU is different.
> 
> I'll try your idea of switching the MS8 to back channels and add a "phone speaker" up front....So your saying the HU turns off back channels for Bluetooth? That would be very cool to have Blue tooth back!
> 
> Bill


That's really good to know. I hadn't heard one way or the other if Hondas were affected by the bluetooth echo issue (most cars are). My guess is if it happens with your 2012 it will happen with the 2013 as well. The echo is related to the inherant processing delay in the MS-8 (not any problem with the stock HU). By the time the cell phone audio process through the MS-8 there has been just enough of a delay that the callers voice is picked up by the bluetooth mic and feeds back to the caller. There are no settings that can be changed in the MS-8 to fix this out of the box. There is a firmware update you can download from Harman for the MS-8 that will allow you to program the mute button as a processor defeat. Whenever you get a bluetooth call you still have to push the mute button to delay all processing and therefore the bluetooth delay. 

The other option, that I prefer (I did this in my last car with an MS-8) is, like you said, run the entire system off the rear channels of the stock HU and run a couple of cheap widebanders off the stock HU front outputs. You then fade the stock HU all the way to the rear. As you asked, yes, most stock HU will only play bluetooth calls over the front outputs, all fading is defeated in the stock head unit when a bluetooth call comes in. This is an excellent occurance as this workaround wouldn't work if the stock head units didn't do this. My guess is that your car does this (my 2013 does, as did my Volvo). Most cars I have experimented with do this. This is a preferrable option over the processor defeat firmware update because it happens automatically (as it should IMHO, I don't want to have to fiddle around finding a button everytime I get a call, then the call is no longer "hands free).


----------



## trevordj

Bill, I tried to send you a second PM (I didn't realize I had two from you) but it is saying your box is full.


----------



## JayinMI

trevordj said:


> Here is the baffle all mounted up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have an MTM array in my dash!!! That is pretty badass. Now I just need to recut the cover, fill the gaps with duraglas to it fits nice and tight, lay down carbon fiber, and build the grills.


Turned out pretty good. I was a little worried about how the vinyl (leather?) on the dash was going to lay down upon reinstallation. Glad to see it didn't bubble up and laid out flat. Great job.

Jay


----------



## trevordj

Ya, I was REALLY worried about that too. I was 50/50 that I was going to have to take it to the upholstery shop to get recovered. I'm glad it worked out though, I'm not sure how much it would have cost but I'm glad to not have to worry about it anymore.

Edit: it is vinyl for sure. There isn't any leather until you jump up to the EX-L and, even then, I'm pretty sure it is just the seats, shift knob, and steering wheel.


----------



## Snills

trevordj said:


> Bill, I tried to send you a second PM (I didn't realize I had two from you) but it is saying your box is full.


OK...
1. I cleaned out all messages.
2. Turning off processing did not affect echo much. I will definitely try to back channel idea. I just so happen to have a free amp channel left! 
I'll let you know if it works - give me a couple days.
3. Any chance there's room in the dash for some Front R\L 4" speakers in the corners? If I can avoid removing the dash, it'd be great.

Bill


----------



## JRace

Nice work so far!

Approx how much vol is in the mid-bass location?

I have an '08 and have had similar thoughts.


----------



## trevordj

Thanks! I was able to get just over 3 liters of volume out of the midbass enclosure. I layed the fiberglass down pretty thick, probably thicker than necessary, so there may have been potential for 3.25 liters or so. Once I get the baffle on I will have probably 1/2 liter more space just because of the way it will sit on the front of the enclosure. The midbass drivers I am using model well in a 0.12 ft^3 (3.4 liters) enclosure tuned to 80hz. I will line the enclosure with fiberglass and stuff it with polyfill so hopefully that will help a bit as well. If the '08 is anything like the '13 than it will be very difficult to fit a driver any larger than 5.25 inches diameter in the location I used.


----------



## trevordj

I wish I had more to show for the weekend but this entire center channel build has been 1 step forward 7/8ths step back. If I were more competent I may be able to get this done faster but, well I'm not . 

As far as the center channel goes, I was not happy with how it turned out so far. I hinted at this above, I hated that I was unable to wrap the vinyl perfectly. I thought my only other option was to tear all of the vinyl off the dash, properly bodywork the center channel cutout, and then have it recovered. I didn't want to do that. 

I have another idea. Well, I have been kicking around this idea for awhile, but it kind nullifies my need to have done all that careful cutting and placement of the mounting ring as I did. Oh well, I have learned a ton so far and, for me, that is all that matters. 

My idea: a trim ring. 

I mounted the baffle and taped the b'jesus out of everything










Kicking glass and taking names










After some duraglas and a few minutes of sanding and cutting



















Full disclosure: I suck. Here is why everything took so long. I actually made this trim ring twice. I'll explain. another benefit of doing this trim ring is that, after doing some measuring (way too much) I knew that the center channel inlay and baffle are slightly off (dash) center). No one would have ever noticed (or maybe you did and didn't say anything), but I knew. With this trim ring I can shift everything the fraction of an inch back to center that it needed to go, fill it in, and no one will be any the wiser. The baffle under this trim panel will sit about 1/8" off the panel above it, but it will not be seen. 

Anyway, why I suck, the first trim ring I built I forgot to center up the piece over the top. I actually got it further off center and it looked like royal ****. 

Oh, and on top of all of that, I decided I wasn't happy with the trim panel being slightly out of symmetry either. This all came down to my novice router skills. Like I said, I have learned a ton from this center channel build already, and one of those skills is knowing now how to get a piece perfectly symmetrical. So I spent a good part of yesterday cutting a new master and project template. Again, the baffle sitting underneath will not share this perfect symmetry but it doesn't matter. It holds the speakers securely and will never be seen. 

Here is the new symmetrical trim piece. 










I can even put this thing in the trim ring "upside down" and it fits like a glove










One last thing: One of my concerns with doing a trim panel is I was worried it would be obtrusive. Kinda like one of those "dash tumors" (we have all seen them) that SCREAMS "this is aftermaket!" It is still not my first choice and still makes a statement that something aftermarket is there, but luckily I was able to build it thick in the center (so it is stiff) but it tapers out nice and thin. 










I think I will be able to work with this. Some body work and painting are in my future. I will be getting the carbon fiber again soon too.


----------



## trevordj

Snills said:


> 3. Any chance there's room in the dash for some Front R\L 4" speakers in the corners? If I can avoid removing the dash, it'd be great.
> 
> Bill


Anything is possible, but I think it would be tough. The only place you could fit speakers in the corners of the dash would be way up by the windshield and it would require some gutting of the plastic structure underneath. It would probably be a lot easier to install the mids inn the a-pillars. 

You would definitely have to remove the dash to install mids in the corners.


----------



## ck_42

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

...was just browsing looking for ideas on upgrading the wife's '13 Accord Sport.
You my man, are batsh*t crazy!!! :rockon:


----------



## Snills

trevordj said:


> Anything is possible, but I think it would be tough. The only place you could fit speakers in the corners of the dash would be way up by the windshield and it would require some gutting of the plastic structure underneath. It would probably be a lot easier to install the mids inn the a-pillars.
> 
> You would definitely have to remove the dash to install mids in the corners.


Trevor,
Sorry for the delay. 
1. I finally got around to switching the MS8 to the back channel. works fine.
2. Hooked up Head Unit Front channel (Enabled during Bluetooth) directly to a free amp channel and had my kid call me in the car...NO FEEDBACK on either side!!! 

Bluetooth now works without feedback and no need to fuss with settings. I never tried the MS8 update (Mute Button tweak) as this is preferred method for me.

Thanks
Bill


----------



## eisnerracing

really nice work so far - ill be watching and following


----------



## blackknight87

This is intense. Tearing up a brand new ride. I LOVE IT!


----------



## JCJetta

req said:


> wow dude.
> 
> you have balls


Exactly. Brand new car, hardly any miles on it, and you have already done so much to it already.

I'm eager to see the plans for the 8's, but so far everything looks great.


----------



## slowsedan01

As a soon to be 2013 Accord Sport owner I am loving this thread. I don't have anything nearly as complex planned, but this is still immensely helpful!


----------



## Snills

Snills said:


> Trevor,
> Sorry for the delay.
> 1. I finally got around to switching the MS8 to the back channel. works fine.
> 2. Hooked up Head Unit Front channel (Enabled during Bluetooth) directly to a free amp channel and had my kid call me in the car...NO FEEDBACK on either side!!!
> 
> Bluetooth now works without feedback and no need to fuss with settings. I never tried the MS8 update (Mute Button tweak) as this is preferred method for me.
> 
> Thanks
> Bill


Almost forgot...
Just in case someone doesn't know about this setup:
You have to turn head unit's Fader setting (Front\Back) all the way to "Back" for this to work properly. Otherwise you'll get a horrible delay between Front and back channels. Direct vs. MS8.

So: 

1. Normal operation with this setup: Music is fed from Head Unit back channel into MS8 input 1/2. Fade to back prevents any front channel audio to bleed into cabin, causing delay effects between MS8 and none Ms8 audio.

2. When a Bluetooth call comes in, the head unit automatically mutes the back channels (i.e. MS8 input) and phone audio is automatically sent through Front channel (bypassing your Fader setting above)...Front channel goes directly to Amp causing NO Bluetooth delay.

Hope it helps.
Bill


----------



## ousooner2

Wow. I might be selling my '04 TL and I'm looking at getting a '13 ex-l v6

...wow. This is crazy, but awesome. Once you get done, if you're ever coming north through OKC I'd love to hear it.


----------



## optimaprime

ya this is super badass!!!


----------



## Snills

Am I the only one Jonesen for an update?
:worried:Bill


----------



## Coppertone

Nope, lol...


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

He posted on another forum(DA) how busy he's been with school & life,eventually it'll get done he said.


----------



## bigjeep127

Maybe if we ask nicely he'll get right back to work, haha.


----------



## trevordj

Hey guys, thanks a lot for sticking with me here. I severely underestimated the amount of time it would take for me to complete this project (in particular the center channel). The project definitely isn't going anywhere I just had to shift my priorities temporarily: 

Short story: There aren't enough hours in the day. 

Long story: I am a physician and just finished my specialty residency at the end of June. I started a very busy subspecialty fellowship on July first which is taking up a huge chunk of my time. On top of that I have to take my specialty boards (effectively the culmination of 8 years of post graduate education) in 2 weeks. ON top of all that I have a 3 month old son at home who is being a 3 month old . 

As soon as I finish my examination on the 12th I will be able to pick this back up. I have been working on this an hour here and there when I need a break from studying but nothing enough to post updates on. 

Don't give up on me! I will get this finished!


----------



## robdridan

You need a holiday !


----------



## BlueAc

Good luck with everything!


----------



## bigjeep127

trevordj said:


> Hey guys, thanks a lot for sticking with me here. I severely underestimated the amount of time it would take for me to complete this project (in particular the center channel). The project definitely isn't going anywhere I just had to shift my priorities temporarily:
> 
> Short story: There aren't enough hours in the day.
> 
> Long story: I am a physician and just finished my specialty residency at the end of June. I started a very busy subspecialty fellowship on July first which is taking up a huge chunk of my time. On top of that I have to take my specialty boards (effectively the culmination of 8 years of post graduate education) in 2 weeks. ON top of all that I have a 3 month old son at home who is being a 3 month old .
> 
> As soon as I finish my examination on the 12th I will be able to pick this back up. I have been working on this an hour here and there when I need a break from studying but nothing enough to post updates on.
> 
> Don't give up on me! I will get this finished!


No shame in having priorities, that's for sure. We've all underestimated the time it would take to complete a project. I, for one, don't think I've ever knocked out something in less time than estimated. I agree with you about there not being enough hours in the day. Sometimes I wish we didn't have to sleep, haha.


----------



## slowsedan01

Snills said:


> Almost forgot...
> Just in case someone doesn't know about this setup:
> You have to turn head unit's Fader setting (Front\Back) all the way to "Back" for this to work properly. Otherwise you'll get a horrible delay between Front and back channels. Direct vs. MS8.
> 
> So:
> 
> 1. Normal operation with this setup: Music is fed from Head Unit back channel into MS8 input 1/2. Fade to back prevents any front channel audio to bleed into cabin, causing delay effects between MS8 and none Ms8 audio.
> 
> 2. When a Bluetooth call comes in, the head unit automatically mutes the back channels (i.e. MS8 input) and phone audio is automatically sent through Front channel (bypassing your Fader setting above)...Front channel goes directly to Amp causing NO Bluetooth delay.
> 
> Hope it helps.
> Bill


In my case I don't have a spare channel to use just for bluetooth calls. Let's say I set my processor up with only the rear oem outputs running into in and during operation I keep the deck faded 100% to the rear. My idea would be to have my new driver door speaker connected to both my oem deck *AND* my aftermarket amp. When a call comes in, it mutes the rear output thus, bypassing the fader setting (which would be all the way to the rear), the OEM deck would then be powering my aftermarket driver door speaker for the call. 

Does anyone see an issue with this setup having the speaker connected to two different sources so long as they aren't playing at the same time? It eliminates the need to run an accessory speaker under the dash for the sole purpose of bluetooth calling.


----------



## bigjeep127

slowsedan01 said:


> In my case I don't have a spare channel to use just for bluetooth calls. Let's say I set my processor up with only the rear oem outputs running into in and during operation I keep the deck faded 100% to the rear. My idea would be to have my new driver door speaker connected to both my oem deck *AND* my aftermarket amp. When a call comes in, it mutes the rear output thus, bypassing the fader setting (which would be all the way to the rear), the OEM deck would then be powering my aftermarket driver door speaker for the call.
> 
> Does anyone see an issue with this setup having the speaker connected to two different sources so long as they aren't playing at the same time? It eliminates the need to run an accessory speaker under the dash for the sole purpose of bluetooth calling.


I am also interested in this as it is what I would prefer to do.


----------



## trevordj

slowsedan01 said:


> In my case I don't have a spare channel to use just for bluetooth calls. Let's say I set my processor up with only the rear oem outputs running into in and during operation I keep the deck faded 100% to the rear. My idea would be to have my new driver door speaker connected to both my oem deck *AND* my aftermarket amp. When a call comes in, it mutes the rear output thus, bypassing the fader setting (which would be all the way to the rear), the OEM deck would then be powering my aftermarket driver door speaker for the call.
> 
> Does anyone see an issue with this setup having the speaker connected to two different sources so long as they aren't playing at the same time? It eliminates the need to run an accessory speaker under the dash for the sole purpose of bluetooth calling.


I thought about doing this as well. I think it would work, but there are two potential disadvantages: 1) There would have to be some sort of back current limiting circuit setup to prevent backflow of electricity into either the stock amplifier or your aftermarket amplifier when either of the two circuits is in use. Otherwise current will flow into your stock head unit amplifier when you are listening to music or vise-versa during bluetooth calling. 2) The entire system would be dependent on always keeping the fader 100% to the rear. If the battery on the car ever went dead and the stock headunit went to default settings, or someone unfamiliar with the car got in and started messing with your settings you could have problems. 

I think both of the problems above are solvable with a proper circuit setup, but I am afraid it is beyond my expertise about how you could actually achieve this. 

I think it is easier just to wire in some cheap speakers off the front outputs of the stock head unit mounting the speakers under the front seats or somewhere else out of the way. 

The solution in the 2013 accord may be much easier: I have received a few messages from people running the MS-8 in the car and they have told me the bluetooth echo issue doesn't exist. I haven't confirmed this yet for myself.


----------



## sanatarium

Well! You're back at it again I see? Love the work you've done on the Accord. And I am also loving the C30. I would like to introduce myself, I am the new proud owner of Trevor's previous project, the Volvo C30, and I am absolutely loving it. I'll be following this project as well, as an engineer who works with carbon fiber, it seriously amazes me the pro level skills you have Trevor. Great work, I love the homebrew vacuum, I might have to build one of those!

On a side note, I agree with your bluetooth speaker theory. The setup in the C30 is perfect with the separate speakers mounted under the front seats. Its a simple solution to a complex problem. No reason to make it more difficult, and cell call quality sucks anyway, no motivation to feed it through a high quality system.


----------



## trevordj

Awesome! I am really glad to hear that you ended up purchasing the car. I seriously loved everything about that C30. It was sad to see it go. It will be hard to match the sound system of that car with my limited budget for this build but hopefully a few of the new techniques I will be trying will still make it cool. 

How are you liking the sound of the C30? I always remembered driving home after a long day of work and just cranking the tunes. The system was always rock solid and had particularly nice, crystal clear highs. I would have always liked to dress up the hatch a little bit more, but everything was nice and stealth. My favorite part about that car was the sail panels. People would look at them and not realize they were aftermarket. I always liked explaining that those tweeters were the nicest speakers in the entire car. 

I have 3 more days until my examination and then I will be getting back to this build. I am just trying to be patient.


----------



## JayinMI

trevordj said:


> I am just trying to be patient.


Is that a doctor joke? lol

Jay


----------



## trevordj

Hahaha, I guess it was


----------



## fast4door

I just purchased a 13 Accord sport 6m yesterday and searched 13 Accord and found your thread and have just been blown away with your build.Your build makes my ideas look like a joke. I must now step up my game . Just joking around your build is awesome I am very impressed with your dedication and the amount of time and attention to detail you have put into your car.


----------



## bigjeep127

fast4door said:


> I just purchased a 13 Accord sport 6m yesterday and searched 13 Accord and found your thread and have just been blown away with your build.Your build makes my ideas look like a joke. I must now step up my game . Just joking around your build is awesome I am very impressed with your dedication and the amount of time and attention to detail you have put into your car.


Where did you find a 6MT Sport??? Here in Atlanta there isn't a single one. I just want to test drive one but can't find any!


----------



## fast4door

bigjeep127 said:


> Where did you find a 6MT Sport??? Here in Atlanta there isn't a single one. I just want to test drive one but can't find any!


My dealer had to bring it in from another dealer on the other side of the state. It was hard to find but worth it


----------



## slowsedan01

Trevor, do you happen to know if the oem deck sends out a flat signal through all four channels? Any chance that Honda bandpassed the rear speakers?


----------



## trevordj

I don't know. I don't have an RTA to measure it either. My guess is the signal is equalized so hopefully the MS-8 can handle flattening the signal adequately.


----------



## Jman08

Your build is fantastic. Sub'd for sure. I just bought a 2013 Honda Accord Sport and the first thing I have to do is a stereo. 

Have you had a chance to measure the maximum mounting depth for the door speakers? I want to keep my install pretty stealthy with minimum modifications but still get good sound. 

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Snills

Trevor and Slowsedan01...
1. As far as I can tell the Back and Front signals are identical on my 2012 Crosstour.
2. Let me know if you need some basic RTA measurements. NOTE: I only have an iphone 5 app called "Audio tools" which has an RTA, and assume your wondering what white and pink noise looks like with MS8 Processing (timing and EQ) enabled and disabled. Otherwise, let me know what your looking for.
3. For now, I'll tell you that when I disable MS8 Processing, it usually "sounds" very thin as if the signal has no low end or high Freq "tuning".
4. Also, for what its worth, (Before I bought an MS8) my original "Car Toys" installer demonstrated the typical "head unit Bass roll-off" at higher volumes, which is why his install included an LC2i for Bass\Volume control. His setup was: Front\Back path = Stock HU > Stock Amp > Amp. Sub = Stock HU > Stock Amp > LC2i > Amp.
He told me to buy an MS8 when I could afford it, and I did...so my current setup is: HU > MS8 > Amps. I'll eventually experiment with the LC2i in my MS8 setup, but for now. Bass roll-off doesn't really bother me.
5. My biggest struggle has been getting my front stage to come alive. My Wifes CX9 with Bose L7 sound system, has been my bench mark comparison, as its front stage sounds pretty damn good for a stock system. It has Bose dash L, R, and Center and some nice mid-bass door panel speakers. It kind of pissed me of every time I heard her stereo against mine. It sounds very full and nice high front sound stage. It wasn't until I started cutting holes in my dash and doors that I was able to get the sound I wanted. Still tweaking though. I finally just decided to get a dash mat to cover my work until I figure out what sounds good. I've made a lot of mistakes but have learned a hell of a lot in the process. (-:

Looking forward to seeing what Trevor does for front stage Left\Right.
Bill


----------



## [email protected]

subs!


----------



## slowsedan01

Snills said:


> Trevor and Slowsedan01...
> 1. As far as I can tell the Back and Front signals are identical on my 2012 Crosstour.
> 2. Let me know if you need some basic RTA measurements. NOTE: I only have an iphone 5 app called "Audio tools" which has an RTA, and assume your wondering what white and pink noise looks like with MS8 Processing (timing and EQ) enabled and disabled. Otherwise, let me know what your looking for.
> 3. For now, I'll tell you that when I disable MS8 Processing, it usually "sounds" very thin as if the signal has no low end or high Freq "tuning".
> 4. Also, for what its worth, (Before I bought an MS8) my original "Car Toys" installer demonstrated the typical "head unit Bass roll-off" at higher volumes, which is why his install included an LC2i for Bass\Volume control. His setup was: Front\Back path = Stock HU > Stock Amp > Amp. Sub = Stock HU > Stock Amp > LC2i > Amp.
> He told me to buy an MS8 when I could afford it, and I did...so my current setup is: HU > MS8 > Amps. I'll eventually experiment with the LC2i in my MS8 setup, but for now. Bass roll-off doesn't really bother me.
> 5. My biggest struggle has been getting my front stage to come alive. My Wifes CX9 with Bose L7 sound system, has been my bench mark comparison, as its front stage sounds pretty damn good for a stock system. It has Bose dash L, R, and Center and some nice mid-bass door panel speakers. It kind of pissed me of every time I heard her stereo against mine. It sounds very full and nice high front sound stage. It wasn't until I started cutting holes in my dash and doors that I was able to get the sound I wanted. Still tweaking though. I finally just decided to get a dash mat to cover my work until I figure out what sounds good. I've made a lot of mistakes but have learned a hell of a lot in the process. (-:
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what Trevor does for front stage Left\Right.
> Bill


Bill, thanks for the help! Here's my dilemma, my integration processor (Alpine PXE-H660) only accepts one set of inputs. The processor has L1, L2 & R1, R2 inputs, however, these are not front and rear. If your OEM deck or amp is a two way system you would connect the mid to L1 and the tweeter to L2 same for R1 and R2 for the right channel. With a full-range output like the Accord I would connect either the front or rear outputs from the deck to both sets of leads for L & R into the processor.

Here's where things get tricky. If I connect the front L & R from the deck to the processor, when I get a phone call the call sound will be played through all four speakers since the phone call fade override wouldn't apply in this scenario (don't know if I will have an echo issue). If I connect the rears only to the processor I will need to run my deck 100% rear faded all the time and install a separate speaker under the dash connected to the oem front outputs for my speaker phone. Honestly I prefer the idea of only running the rear outputs from the deck into the processor but I need to make sure this is a full range signal and not band passed.


----------



## shutmdown

i'm sure someone has mentioned this already but major props for having the cajones to rip apart a new car lol. really interested in this build.


----------



## IBcivic

COJONES...


----------



## shutmdown

IBcivic said:


> COJONES...


compermiso senor. COJONES!


----------



## dd1101

Great thread! What's your specialty Trevor? My wife is doing her residency apps now.


----------



## Snills

slowsedan01 said:


> Bill, thanks for the help! Here's my dilemma, my integration processor (Alpine PXE-H660) only accepts one set of inputs. The processor has L1, L2 & R1, R2 inputs, however, these are not front and rear. If your OEM deck or amp is a two way system you would connect the mid to L1 and the tweeter to L2 same for R1 and R2 for the right channel. With a full-range output like the Accord I would connect either the front or rear outputs from the deck to both sets of leads for L & R into the processor.
> 
> Here's where things get tricky. If I connect the front L & R from the deck to the processor, when I get a phone call the call sound will be played through all four speakers since the phone call fade override wouldn't apply in this scenario (don't know if I will have an echo issue). If I connect the rears only to the processor I will need to run my deck 100% rear faded all the time and install a separate speaker under the dash connected to the oem front outputs for my speaker phone. Honestly I prefer the idea of only running the rear outputs from the deck into the processor but I need to make sure this is a full range signal and not band passed.


OK,
Sounds correct...when I get a chance, I'll try to check this for you - I plan on doing some work on the side speakers soon and maybe even routing the 3rd output (Sub) to the MS8 through an LCi2 to control bass roll-off...so will let you know what EACH of those 3 inputs spectrum looks like on white and pink noise. I suspect they're all the same.
Bill


----------



## ousooner2

I miss this...


----------



## Snills

ousooner2 said:


> I miss this...


Damn...I thought Trevor had an update!
...I miss it too. But I understand needing a break from this kind of project. I'd really like to see what he did for his front L\R speaker mounting....etc


----------



## Chaos

That center channel MTM is one heck of an ambitious project - great work so far.


----------



## Sonnie

Whatever happened... did you get finished Trevor?

Just got a 2014 Accord and looking to do an install... good stuff here, but reading through the thread and it's like only getting to watch part 1 of a 2 part movie.


----------



## Coppertone

I think that being a Doctor and a new father has swamped him. Sadly I will just have to imagine what the outcome of this was.


----------



## Salami

Hoping we get to see some more progress soon. This build has me extremely interested as I have a 2013 Accord also.


----------



## steve4134

This deserves a bump.

Steve


----------



## lashlee

I think that he got rid of the car.


----------



## ousooner2

Oh wow. All that work


----------



## alyks

:thumbsup: you have very interesting installation scheme


----------



## bigjeep127

Anyone find out what happened to this guy?


----------



## jrock645

I have 2014 accord and just recently did my first ever sound system install. Basic, just swapped speakers, added an amp and a powered sub and lc7i. Just bought the MS8, which I'll be adding in.

The pictures of this project blew my mind. I did a little bit of sound deadening and my project took me an exhausting two full days. I can't even imagine devoting weeks. Not to mention the fabrication skill involved.

Hope he finished and is getting to enjoy all of his hard work.


----------



## virulentv

did i miss something ? conclusions to this out of this world build ?


----------



## teldzc1

I think he sold the car before he finished. Says it somewhere in the thread. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## SoundsGood2Me

Hi Teldzc1,
Trevor did not say he sold this Accord. There was mention of his previous Volvo C30 build. That car was sold and the new owner commented in this thread about how he loved it. Unfortunately the updates stopped for this build in mid-2013. I think he had to change his priorities. I would love to hear an update but it seems unlikely at this point.

We are lucky to have all the detail that we have here. I found a lot to help and inspire me.

Regards,
Simon


----------



## bigjeep127

SoundsGood2Me said:


> Hi Teldzc1,
> Trevor did not say he sold this Accord. There was mention of his previous Volvo C30 build. That car was sold and the new owner commented in this thread about how he loved it. Unfortunately the updates stopped for this build in mid-2013. I think he had to change his priorities. I would love to hear an update but it seems unlikely at this point.
> 
> We are lucky to have all the detail that we have here. I found a lot to help and inspire me.
> 
> Regards,
> Simon


I followed this thread daily as it happened two years ago. I just bought a new 15' Accord Sport and am 3 weeks into my "build". I agree, this thread has been invaluable for me, as well as inspirational. I've used a lot of the materials/parts/methods that he used. My build is NOWHERE near what his was and it is still taking me forever. I couldn't beleive that he would take the dash out nightly and put it all back in. As I watched this build live it made me exhausted just thinking about it. On top of that he was in med school and actively studying, oh and he had a new baby, wow. Lots of respect for his passion, but no shame if it turns out he had to drop it as I'm sure anyone here understands about priorities. I just hope the guy is alright, he was so active here and on driveaccord.net and he just disaspeared. It's the greatest mystery on this forum IMO. Hopefully he's just enjoying life out there in the real world.


----------



## FunkPnut

Well if the guy did end up selling the car, someone sure got a quiet ride.


----------



## diamondsounds

Nice


----------



## trevordj

Coppertone said:


> I think that being a Doctor and a new father has swamped him. Sadly I will just have to imagine what the outcome of this was.


You hit the nail on the head!

Hey guys, back from the dead here. I am really sorry that I fell off the planet here. Life got really hectic. I was a new father, finishing up my residency training as a physician, starting fellowship training, then my family and I moved across the country, then subsequently moved three times, had a ****ty job that I was really unhappy with, working way too much, etc. etc. etc. I had no business starting this installation when I did. 

Anyway, I still don't have any spare time and I have been driving around for the past 2 years with after buttoning up the interior in this car and never got the audio equipment installed. I still have all of it and I will be hiring someone to install it for me (hopefully) now that things have stabilized a little bit. I always prefer to do my own installs but that just isn't going to happen. 

Sorry again for abandoning this. I came back to this thread today looking at what my plans were so I can pass information onto the installer that will hopefully do this justice by finishing it!


----------



## Salami

Happy to hear that you and the family are otherwise well. Will be nice to hear about the car finally being finished.


----------



## chithead

Any updates? I'm curious to know how all of it turned out.


----------



## trevordj

Sorry, I forgot to update this thread. The car is very close to being finished. It has taken longer than expected to finish it but the build quality is top notch. I am very happy with the installer I chose. I wanted to take it to someone who could do more than I could. He has definitely delivered in that regard. The coolest thing is his ability to make formed custom grills. For each grill makes a die and forms the material using a 10 ton press. As a DIYer I definitely appreciate the work that goes into this alone. The car is scheduled for delivery next week so I should have completed pictures by then. 


Center channel MTM (now with dual 4" mids Scanspeak Illuminator tweeter



















Center Channel (VERY nice, I will take better photos of this later)



















Leather seats: The grey plastic will be replaced with black. I have parts on order from Honda which were ridiculously expensive



















Subwoofer enclosures in progress


----------



## Salami

Hell yes!!

What speaker is in the center console?


----------



## trevordj

Salami said:


> Hell yes!!
> 
> What speaker is in the center console?


Thanks! 

A Scanspeak Revelator 15W is in there


----------



## Salami

So what is the current component list going into the car? I am assuming you sticking with the MS-8 since so much time was spent on the center channel but I am guessing a lot may be changed since page 1.


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## trevordj

Sorry, I thought I updated the component list but I only did so on the Accord forum. Basically, everything changed . Luckily I have a spare bedroom A/V project that I will be using the Vifa woofers and tweeters with. I am making a set of Jeff Bagby's Continuums for an office setup and will be using the Dayton 8" subs in two dual opposed boxes for subwoofer duty there. The Kenwood amplifiers are for sale in the classifieds now (also put them on eBay). Other than those amplifiers I will be able to use everything for other projects. 

Given that I was spending so much on the install I figured it made sense to go high end on the components. Even with high end stuff, the cost of installation far outweighs the cost of the components. 

Here is the current component list going into the car:

JBL MS-8. I love the center channel processing
Audiocontrol unit (not sure which one) for active center channel
No rears (didn't want the extra cost, can easily be added in the future)
Front L+R will be a two way using: 
Scanspeak Revelator 18W midbass
Scanspeak Illuminator D3004/6020-00 tweeters

Center Console:
Scanspeak Revelator 15w Woofer

Center MTM:
Scanspeak Discovery 10F Midrange x 2
Scanspeak Illuminator D3004/6020-00 tweeter

Subwoofers:
Dual Scanspeak Discovery 30W Subs

Amplifiers: 
All will be Audison Voce. This is a little up in the air right now. Initially we were trying for two amplifiers, a 5 channel and a 4 channel, but I think we are going to have to end up with three amplifiers. 

The trunk will have the subs in each quarter panel, sealed in approximately 1.75 cubic feet each (with stuffing this will net a QTC of around 0.6. The amplifier rack will be welded to fit the floor of the trunk and will have gas shocks for spare tire access (something I wanted to retain). 

I wish I could have gone with rears and three ways in the doors but that would have required more channels of amplification, building a passive crossover for both, and modifying the door cards. All that is extra money and the cost of the project is already as high as I can stomach. 

It should be sweet though .


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## Salami

Effin sweet!!!!! Can't wait to see it finished and hear your thoughts on how it sounds.


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## trevordj

One of the things I have really enjoyed about working with this shop is they have let me put my flavor on all the choices. Most shops would have really pushed me to purchase components they sell (they do mostly Hertz and Audison). They were fine with me using DIY speakers and my MS-8. They initially pushed a little for me to use a BitTen for processing but the center channel processing power just isn't there (would basically be a summed mono center which is not good). I wish Audison's processors had better center channel processing as it would have been nice to use the digital input from processor to amplifiers.

They typically use off the shelf interconnects but will let me build my own DIY interconnects, something I enjoy. They took out the welding cable and used Stinger HPM wire which is fine. I think the welding cable would have worked but this is one thing they insisted on so they can guarantee the work (added negligible cost anyway).


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## vwjmkv

subd! glad to see this build didn't go completely disappear.


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## trevordj

vwjmkv said:


> subd! glad to see this build didn't go completely disappear.


Thanks! I feel like a bit of a poser posting a build somewhat else is doing but as I have gotten older and settled into my career I just don't have the time! 

Home audio is a bit more digestible for me so I get my DIY kicks doing that now .


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## Coppertone

There is nothing wrong posting what you've worked hard in your career to pay for. A hundred years ago when I was young and did my own installs, that did it for me. Now that I've established myself financially where I can afford to have my stuff done, I'm doing just that. I don't feel any less involved especially knowing it was my funding that made it happen.


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## trevordj

I picked up the car today, (another) week later than expected. It was worth the wait  I will be taking some glamour shots tomorrow when I dig out the SLR. Here is a teaser before the rest of the trunk was installed: 



















Seriously, the car looks great and sounds fantastic. I couldn't be happier .


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## Bluenote

Looks great, love the sub layout!


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## Coppertone

So do I, please hurry up and snap those photos lol.


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## SQLnovice

subd for updates.


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## trevordj

Ok, here we go!

I'll just let the photos speak for themselves 



















I have new rear seatbelts on the way in black so they don't stick out so much. 




















I will be getting the car back to the installer in 2 weeks (he does seminars on car audio installation and wants to use my car given the work he has done). They will be de-tweeterizing the sail panels given we decided to install them in the a-pillars. Then it won't look like there is double tweeter action.


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## trevordj

The trunk:























































He will be installing some LED (basic white) under the grill in the trunk just to give it a little pop. It is hard to capture all the detail they put into this trunk buildout. It really looks fantastic.


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## trevordj

A few more: 

They built out a trim panel for the MS-8 controller and re-installed the factory USB/power in the center console. It looks great!


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## Niebur3

Looks great!!!!


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## Bluenote

Nice! I was wondering why the additional Audiocontrol processor with the MS8? Is it to process the 'technically' 4 way center?


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## trevordj

Bluenote said:


> Nice! I was wondering why the additional Audiocontrol processor with the MS8? Is it to process the 'technically' 4 way center?


Yes, the audiocontrol unit is to process the center channel. It is probably unnecessary as it would have been just as easy to make a simple passive crossover network between the mid and tweet in the MTM array on the top of the dash but this was easier (and faster, hence cheaper). I could have paid them to build a passive crossover and the parts wold have been less expensive but the labor would have made it more expensive. The center channel is a three way (5.5" woofer, dual 3.5" mids, and a single tweeter)...


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## SQLnovice

This is an amazing install. Would you mind if I shoot you some questions via pm? Also, do you have any pics of what the center channel looks like under the lingerie (grill) 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## optimaprime

Gorgeous work my friend . Love the sub boxes the grills are so pretty


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## Salami

Car looks AWESOME!! So how does it sound??????





trevordj said:


> I will be getting the car back to the installer in 2 weeks (he does seminars on car audio installation and wants to use my car given the work he has done). They will be de-tweeterizing the sail panels given we decided to install them in the a-pillars. Then it won't look like there is double tweeter action.


Or you can just get the stock ones from a Sport or lower trim and save a lot of work and money. Or you if you want I will trade the tweeter less ones I have for yours.


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## trevordj

SQLnovice said:


> This is an amazing install. Would you mind if I shoot you some questions via pm? Also, do you have any pics of what the center channel looks like under the lingerie (grill)
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


No problem at all. Feel free to fire away . I don't have any photos of center channel behind the grill. That is the downside of having someone else do it... I have no idea how it is mounted. I know it is in a sealed enclosure and they used the same mounting points I had previously used (some stock screws). I wish I knew more than that :blush:.


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## trevordj

Salami said:


> Car looks AWESOME!! So how does it sound??????
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can just get the stock ones from a Sport or lower trim and save a lot of work and money. Or you if you want I will trade the tweeter less ones I have for yours.


I hadn't thought of that! That is definitely what I am going to do. I already have an order in for a bunch more stuff in with one of the online honda parts company. I am definitely down to trade if that works for you. I will send you a PM.


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## trevordj

Some additional pictures of something that may seem insignificant, but I very much enjoy. Starting with my last project (the Volvo) I really took a liking to building my own interconnects. I have found well built homemade interconnects outperform anything that can be purchase retail. They are not necessarily less expensive (especially taking my labor into account), but they are "right." Further, building the cables the exact length that is needed avoids having to child the wire which is one large contributor to introduced noise IME. 

Anyway, the shop was cool with letting me build my own cables. They usually use off the shelf interconnects (stinger) but were super excited with how these came out. In fact, they are going to contract with me to build their interconnects for their future high end builds . 




























Let me know if any of you need some interconnects. They aren't cheap to make (I had to purchase a very high end crimper and die along with the connector, tech flex, boots, and cable). But they work well.


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## trevordj

Salami said:


> Car looks AWESOME!! So how does it sound??????


The car sounds good right now, not great, but good. I am lacking pretty severely in the mid bass department so I probably need to go through some of the MS-8 tweaking/troubleshooting steps. The center channel sounds great, center is locked where is should be as you would expect based on the center channel build. The center tweeter is crossed with the mids at 1500hz which I think is way too low. It makes sense for the two way L/R but isn't necessary for the three way center. I am thinking a crossover in the 3K range for the MTM is probably a good starting point. 

Some tweaking needed, but the foundation is solid. Those scanspeak subs sound really great. The tweeters are amazing, very smooth sounding so far.


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## trevordj

We're rocking now . I went through and adjusted the levels and redid the tuning a few times. I am getting some serious mid bass and everything is sounding great now! I spent two hours sitting in the car this evening just listening to music. It is 90% there I would say. Midbass is better than it was in my Volvo. Imaging and vocals (male and female) are spot on. Center channel sounds fantastic. Those scanspeak illuminator tweeters absolutely kick some serious ass. Taking the crossover up to 2200hz really seemed to do the trick. I am still waiting on another module so I can play with the center channel mid/tweet crossover. On live recordings I really missed the rear fill. I am toying with the idea of using the Audiocontrol 6XS to process all three ways of the center channel (obviously I would lose separate time alignment for the mid bass and MTM but that isn't too big of a deal). This would free up a channel for me to add a small two channel amplifier and a couple rear speakers. I will sit with it for a few weeks and see what I think.


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## Coppertone

trevordj said:


> Some additional pictures of something that may seem insignificant, but I very much enjoy. Starting with my last project (the Volvo) I really took a liking to building my own interconnects. I have found well built homemade interconnects outperform anything that can be purchase retail. They are not necessarily less expensive (especially taking my labor into account), but they are "right." Further, building the cables the exact length that is needed avoids having to child the wire which is one large contributor to introduced noise IME.
> 
> Anyway, the shop was cool with letting me build my own cables. They usually use off the shelf interconnects (stinger) but were super excited with how these came out. In fact, they are going to contract with me to build their interconnects for their future high end builds .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if any of you need some interconnects. They aren't cheap to make (I had to purchase a very high end crimper and die along with the connector, tech flex, boots, and cable). But they work well.


Would LOVE to see the pictures of these please.


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## trevordj

Coppertone said:


> Would LOVE to see the pictures of these please.


Do you mean installed? The pictures of the RCAs are in the post you quoted but can snap some pictures in the car if that's what you mean.


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## Coppertone

The pictures on my tablet show as expired.


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## trevordj

Oh, weird. They are showing up for me. Imageshack recently had a huge server crash so let me re-upload and see if that helps. 




























Hopefully that works, let me know


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## Coppertone

They are perfect looking, great job on them.


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## trevordj

Well, a few weeks turned into a few hours. I realized I can use the built in amplifier for the MS-8 to power the rears. That should be plenty of power. I already have the Tang Band W4-1337Ds so I can do this without any additional cost. If it sounds crappy or causes a bass trap in the trunk I can always undo everything. 

I guess there is still some DIY spirit left in me! I cooked these up this morning. I just used some black acrylic I had in the garage to cut out some mounting rings. I cut the stock rear speakers out of their frames and used that as a mounting point for the acrylic. I siliconed the mounting rings into the stock frame and that is drying now. I will be able to utilize the stock mounting point in the rear deck without having to make any modifications now.


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## trevordj

One more: 










The speakers are in and wired up. I am only able to run my center channel 200hz up until I get some new modules for the 6XS. Even so, it sounds much better. I really like the rear fill. Only a few hours of work and I have it again .


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## Coppertone

Well hats off to you, not only based upon the many hours I'm sure you're working. But also being a father and still getting time to actually do work audio wise.


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