# Porsche 991



## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Hi

Long time lurker, first post though.

Have a 2014 Porsche 911 (991.1 for the Porsche geeks) with the stock "sound package plus" which has; tweeters in the dash and 4" in the doors run off the the HU, 4" coax in the rear qtr again on HU, a center speaker, finally 8" in the doors run off a small amp under my driver's seat (UK car so RHD).

Plan is to make a fully plug n play system that hooks up to the factory connectors, mountings, and uses the Porsche "pcm" HU. Want to use a DSP which will most likely be a mosconi D2 80.6 DSP so I can make the front 3 ways active.

Initially plan to upgrade the tweeters with dynaudio MD 102 but leave the stock door speakers and see how it works. Can look at the response in REW and see how we get on.

Looking forward to sharing the project and getting some constructive feedback. I've not touched car audio in 20 years, but am a sound engineer by trade (although more in vision these days) so be good to dust down some dormant brain cells and memories.

Muu


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

put a set of dyna system 272 in there and be done with it. install a dsp amp as well


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Porsche said:


> put a set of dyna system 272 in there and be done with it. install a dsp amp as well


Ok interesting, just go 2 way and say a DSP 100.4 ??


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

my bad, i meant the 362, the 3 way


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So one challenge with the MD142 mid is it's slightly too big for the cup in the 9x1 door panels, the E430 works but blows budgets


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

i have e430 in all my cars. i would be surprised if you couldn't fit the 142


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

so it comes in a bucket which is just a smidge too wide for the plastic door cup thing, maybe they can be stripped down like the MD102.

Which tweeter you running the in the 991?


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

Always in for a Porsche build.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Muu said:


> so it comes in a bucket which is just a smidge too wide for the plastic door cup thing, maybe they can be stripped down like the MD102.
> 
> Which tweeter you running the in the 991?


esotar tweeter in custom pillars. mid and mid bass in doors, all esotar


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

ah nice, I'm not as quite into it as that so looking to put my tweeters in the burmester location on some 3D printed mounts with OEM grilles over the top.

In the doors would like to keep it to bolt on options, so MW172 looks good but might mean busting budget on a e430 mid-range or see if the 142 can be released from its cap


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Bought a umik-1 today to model the car, and the md102 with some protection caps (10μF). Going to sort the tweeters and amp first, and muse on the doors.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Quick play with it tonight, couldn't run it too loud on the driveway at 11pm but collected this with the UMIK-1 at the headrest position with pink noise and 16 sample average, the graph has 1/12 smoothing. Going to need to create a test CD, or load them onto a card into a HU to get something approaching flat.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So removed the seat to check out the amp, if my connectors will work (input yes, output needs tangs clipping out), and the space i have to deal with.

Looks like i won't be able to use the usual mosconi 60.8 due to my car having a factory tracking module taking up space and it's affixed with snap off security screws.

So I'm going to need to go down the class D route and musing on either the audison 8.9 (35w + 35w + 130w three way active) or a more petite mosconi D2 80.6 (running 80w all round).

Some pictures:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So I've modelled the stripped down MD102










And created a 2 part clam to hold them left and right:

















Was running on 3D printer batch over the weekend, should be posted today and I'll have them later in the week.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

They'll hide behind these burmester grilles:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Back from the printers, tweeter fits but let's see how it fits in the car...


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Amp arrived too, so dinky


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Critical bit of the build is this little VAG connector, means I can steal the input from the stock amp without cutting into looms. Pins I'm crimping with a PA-20 and as the max gauge the pins will take is 0.5mm2 over got to make my own input leads after desoldering the Gladen cables.


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## Barnaby (Aug 25, 2009)

Nice job on the tweeter mounts. They look like the Musicar NW ones, but way more gratifying to make them yourself.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Barnaby said:


> Nice job on the tweeter mounts. They look like the Musicar NW ones, but way more gratifying to make them yourself.


Yeah no doubt they did a decent job, but as I don't have a router and didn't want to make any lasting changes to the dynaudio I went the 3D printed route.

Been a busy day, testing the HU output required the half of the loom that plugs to the car:









I then fed various signals from the usb Jukebox to see what shape the output had, and interestingly the HU can be turned to max (it doesn't graphically show volume) and it stays clean. So I'll set my down stream gains with it on high to ensure a good structure.










The little mosconi is a good fit, just need to finalise in my head how I'll secure it. Probably with a plate on the OE bolts as it fits within the placement nicely.










So now have the amp IO looms made up. Next is mounting and power, with dedicated runs to the tweeters (currently they're shared with the midbass in the doors), but basically it's:
Chan 1&2 - new tweeters in dash
Chan 3&4 - factory mids in doors
Chan 5&6 - factory 8" in doors


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Oh and the input loom, just needs the remote lead terminating:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So what felt like a decent step today, the tweeter housings are complete.


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

Love the detail in your work!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

ejeffrey said:


> Love the detail in your work!


Thanks man, it's not a massive build what I am doing I'd like to be as neat as it can be.

Next is the amp mount:


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Are you replacing the stock speaker wire with thicker guage wire?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Not to the doors, no. Although Porsche are pretty generous here. Tweeters get fresh runs to break them away from the mids in the active setup.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Muu said:


> Critical bit of the build is this little VAG connector, means I can steal the input from the stock amp without cutting into looms. Pins I'm crimping with a PA-20 and as the max gauge the pins will take is 0.5mm2 over got to make my own input leads after desoldering the Gladen cables.
> 
> View attachment 261675


You can get a repair wire for every harness in a VW product. It might take some digging, but they are available. I do this in every VW product I've ever owned. Super easy to go back to stock too.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah I'm all good there, plug and play to the OEM amp input connector


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

This is a fantastic build, I'm considering the Audison 8.9 for my Panamera build I'm trying to map out.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

oekundar said:


> This is a fantastic build, I'm considering the Audison 8.9 for my Panamera build I'm trying to map out.


If you go this route, I'd strongly recommend going for the AP F8.9 (Forza). It's only a couple hundred dollars more, but with twice the power. I have both the standard AP8.9 and the AP F8.9 in two cars, and they're both great, but that extra power is really nice.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah the 8.9 and it's bigger brother the F8.9 were contenders here, but they seemed to be more geared to dealers with their fancy audison flying saucer mic tuning. In some ways the mosconi UI is more basic, but really it's pretty powerful when coupled with something like REW.

If I was doing a Panamera where the amps are in the boot (I think) I'd go dynaudio 3 way up front running active on a dedicated processor so i could use an array of amps to cover the various drivers.


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Muu said:


> Yeah the 8.9 and it's bigger brother the F8.9 were contenders here, but they seemed to be more geared to dealers with their fancy audison flying saucer mic tuning. In some ways the mosconi UI is more basic, but really it's pretty powerful when coupled with something like REW.
> 
> If I was doing a Panamera where the amps are in the boot (I think) I'd go dynaudio 3 way up front running active on a dedicated processor so i could use an array of amps to cover the various drivers.


The simplicity and power of the Audison and Mosconi are important to me but I see your point


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Muu said:


> Yeah the 8.9 and it's bigger brother the F8.9 were contenders here, *but they seemed to be more geared to dealers with their fancy audison flying saucer mic tuning*.


Not sure I'd agree with that. I've heard from two different dealers that the Audison Bit Tune has been a disappointment, and doesn't yield great results. Not sure what the first dealer ended up using, but the second dealer simply uses REW with a calibrated microphone. I did the same on my installs.

I'm sure the Mosconi is also great, I've heard good things, I just haven't used it myself to comment.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah I can't talk from a place of authority here, just had to make a choice between a 8.9 and a D2 80.6. Looking at the two apps the audison is pretty but the mosconi had all the buttons I'm looking for easy to hand.

This is coming from a background in recording & TV studio builds.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So tonight's work, wanted to make a plate up to mount the mosconi to the factory points. So had some 3mm carbon sheet left over from another project and thought it'd make a good amp carrier.









Bit of time with the bandsaw, edges were then ground to radius them and chamfer the edges:









Drilled and test fitted to the car (it needs the corner cuts to avoid some loom fasteners):


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

End result I'm happy with:


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Looks good!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Amp is in...









Ditto the tweeters:

















Behind burmester grilles (much more open and no captive tweeter):


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

What was less fun is the power, so I made this positive loom (gauge calculated for acceptable voltage drop):









The power distribution box is in the passenger footwell which means I needed to run it across the bulkhead, fiddly but they give you conduit to run in.









That box is clearly the same one they use LHD but back to front (notice they have mounts on both sides) but in a RHD car you have to remove it to gain access to the terminals.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

hmmm somewhat caught the bug, was in two minds on the door drivers now the question is:

Morel CDM-880 + Elate MW 9:
















Dynaudio Esotar 430 + MW 172:
















Cost comes out about the same, ones biased towards the mid, the other towards the woofer. I know some will say take the expensive one of each, costs start to get up there. Only thing to consider is I only have 80w on the low end, so maybe sensitivity is key here>


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

the dyna mid is superior


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## Otterman (Aug 30, 2015)

Super clean work! With 80 watts for the MidBass, I’d go with the MW172’s. I’m running Morel Ti’s now (6.5”), and they’re awesome but also power hungry. Love my CDM880’s as well, but all other things being equal, I’d take the Esotar over those. My favorite speakers ever have been the Dynaudio Esotec 3-ways with the MW170 MidBass. Bought a set used in 2006, ran them for 10 years in 2 different cars, sold them after I traded vehicles and have little doubt they’re still performing flawlessly. I’d be running them now if I still had the nerve to cut the sheet metal on my door to get them to fit....but I don’t....


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Sweet, yeah listening to the car very early stages today I think the MD102 are really showing up the factory mids, lowering the x-over points brought clarity down the spectrum so imagine having that range done properly with 430s would be ace.

Ran into a snag today which I have a stand-alone thread for: Differential Input #FAIL on Mosconi

Did manage to get a sweep off the HU by playing pink noise off a USB drive out via the DSP (left flat) and out via chan7&8 into my soundcard (so no speakers here) and it's clear they've rolled off the bottom end:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So need to sort the balanced input gain issue in the short term as otherwise the gain structure is rubbish and I'll simultaneously be driving the HU outputs really hard and leaving half the amp power on the table. So basically I need to convert from a balanced (twin signal with opposite phase) to a unbalanced (single signal with a ground):









I come from a broadcast background and we use these Neutrik boxes as 'problem solvers' when going between impedance domains and between balanced pro and unbalanced consumer gear:















They don't do a RCA to RCA version but they do sell the case and the NTE-1 1:1 transformer they put inside as parts to build your own version, I'll put two in the case and build a stereo version. The signal flow would be:









Hopefully this works well, and I can run the amp in line level mode and therefore within an acceptable gain range. I'm measuring the chan 7&8 line outs with a scope to see where the signal clips (and it clips a decent way before the clip light on the amp lights).


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ok problem solved, low level inputs work beautifully with no noise and a nice gain structure. The factory head unit rolls off the bottom end as you turn it up, so you don't want to be pushing the outputs much. I'm going to find where the bottom end knees off and set my gains based on that but at 0db.

So the new input loom:


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Very good work - beautiful car! I’m a Dyn fan as well, but it seems to me that you will be successful with whatever you decide to do. Looking forward to more pics as you get things done. Excellent job!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Thanks man, it's been a while since I did hands on audio but I do have a degree in audio engineering and work in broadcast technology.

Ok keen to understand the Porsche HU out now I have the transformers in place. These signals are captured from the chan 7&8 passthrough into a soundcard into REW. Ignore the Y axis as no calibration there, mainly it's the curve of the response as output increases.


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## Anthonysalgado (Jul 8, 2020)

What is the price ??
View attachment 262022

View attachment 262023

View attachment 262024

View attachment 262025

[/QUOTE]


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Was about £40 ($50) to have printed


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So toying with doing a sub box build, just trying to understand the space I have, what I could use and the whole system weight.

MusicarNW did an amazing build on this car, and it's pretty inspirational: Project "Aria" - An Audiophile's Dream 991 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

I liked the ideal of using the OE child restraints as the mounting points and even keeping them in play albeit lifted (not that I can use them in a GT3)

This is the space I have to play with:









So I started with a base plate in fusion 360:










And the idea of fitting this pointing down into an enclosure in the low teens litres wise (sub says min 10L):









Powered by one of these hidden in a recess in the box:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So my plan was to do a layup in 12mm ply but ensure it's stiff by design rather than using really thick walls, this is a chambered approach where the mounting points for the sub are braced to the back skin and the anchor points:









It's 7 layers of CNC cut 12mm ply, and provides 14.4L of volume in a package 84mm heigh (chamber is 60mm)










Finished item would look like this, with the focal basket pointing up.










Weight wise it's projected to be:

Sub box 6330g
Focal 10 8100g
D2 500.1 990g
Plus cables, trim and fixing
= roughly 16KG
Any thoughts on the design? I know it's compromised for packaging sake.

It'd be paired up with a Dyanaudio MD102 + E430 + E650 trio up front fed by the existing D2 80.6, which also handles the DSP with chan 7&8 feeding the sub.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I've been following your build. I really enjoy your work. Clever sub box with design cues from the Musicar build. But, are you sure you want the sub basket pointing out / exposed? I know this looks pretty cool. But, kind of ruins your stealth build theme. Have you considered using a shallow mount sub?

Or, are you going to create some acoustically transparent cover for the subwoofer basket???

Ge0


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

I'm in two minds really, if I put another two 12mm mid layer in I could run a JL 10TW3-D8 but the box, the volume of box would increase but so would be bulk

Might do a V2 with a 13TW5v2-4 as they're pretty shallow but I'd need to pinch the recommended 22L a little


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Had to loose the amp section, and it's grown to 108mm tall but it's now 22L with the sub in it and would take 13TW5








Braces to match the fixing, double skin around the mounting (so 24mm there) and a X brace in the base:


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

WOW! I like. Man I need to learn Fusion 360.

Ge0


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## BluFuze (Apr 17, 2014)

Not sure if you’re set on the JL, but Image Dynamics’ IDQs shallow mount should be out soon. Matt has been working getting them built and tested since he’s been back. 


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

BluFuze said:


> Not sure if you’re set on the JL, but Image Dynamics’ IDQs shallow mount should be out soon. Matt has been working getting them built and tested since he’s been back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Only 10mm xmax with the ID. I think they are available now. Sundown or JL!


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Sub box looks cool but I’d recommend the 12TW3 over the 13TW5. The 13TW5 has a little more cone area but only has 10.5 mm of excursion vs over 15 mm of excursion for the 12TW3. You’d have to go a little taller on the enclosure to fit it but if you’re trying for shallow as possible the 13TW5 is one of the shallowest I know of. But output is definitely below regular subs and slightly deeper shallow subs.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Only 10mm xmax with the ID. I think they are available now. Sundown or JL!


I was warned to stay away from the IDQ-S. Not only is x-max limited but QTS and FS are abnormally high. They don't model well in boxes. Limited low frequency extension.

JL Audio, Sundown SD4, SB Acoustics, and Dayton Audio have better designs.

Ge0


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So I'm not after thunderous bass, and the design of the interior would really work if I can keep the sub to 84mm deep (there is a transition in the shelf at ~80mm I'd like to follow) which means with a braced 12mm walled sub I'd need to work with a 72mm mounting depth. Now I could cheat and put a mounting ring on to add another 12mm back and get back to 84mm depth - but that's still only 3.3" hence why V1 had a Focal pointing down basket up.

Illusion C10 could work



https://illusionaudio-america.com/downloads/CarbonC10.pdf



This design is nearly 18L so while on the tight side of the recommended not as small as you often see the C10 used, and comes in at 96mm high. One detail I added was a port for the amp to sit in so its heatsink would get cabin air (I would cut a port in the side for cable egress.









With the top off so you can see what's what inside:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Fusion 360 suggests that box would weigh in at 6550g if made from ply, and the C10 is 2400g, and 1000g for the amp, so it'd pretty much be 10KG all up - not bad at all.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Ge0 said:


> I was warned to stay away from the IDQ-S. Not only is x-max limited but QTS and FS are abnormally high. They don't model well in boxes. Limited low frequency extension.
> 
> JL Audio, Sundown SD4, SB Acoustics, and Dayton Audio have better designs.
> 
> Ge0


THIS. I have no idea what the design goals were that led to the spec of the IDQS woofers. I had pretty high hopes when they were first announced. As soon as specs were available and I modeled them, I dropped them from consideration for just about any installation.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Crutchfield is having a sale on these focal slim subs (I believe because a newer model became available). I’ve been curious to hear anyone’s experience with them:










Focal Performance P25FS


Expert Series shallow-mount 10" 4-ohm component subwoofer




www.crutchfield.com






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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Had a look at the focals but not really a fan of wicker cone. Even the JL TW3 I'd want to debadge by spraying the cap with something like plastidip


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Muu said:


> Had a look at the focals but not really a fan of wicker cone. Even the JL TW3 I'd want to debadge by spraying the cap with something like plastidip


Gotcha. At any rate, great looking build and sweet car. Will be following!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Had a look at the focals but not really a fan of wicker cone. Even the JL TW3 I'd want to debadge by spraying the cap with something like plastidip


You can down-fire a TW3 or TW5 and would never see the cone. An excellent way to protect the sub too.

Ge0


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah like the aria build with a slot port

What'd we feel about a pair of dynaudio MW 182?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I have really enjoyed the SI BM mkV sub for many years (well the III, IV, and now the V). It may not be a popular choice in this thread, but it has been all I desired in my builds with a 0.50 to 0.70 cu ft box. 


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Couple have asked for my 3D files, so have published them here: Porsche Dynaudio Mounts by TheMuu

Pro tip, when you strip down the tweeter remember to mark which post is +ve as it's only marked on the casing!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm familiar with the MW182's. I have them mounted in my Macan.









It's a great midbass driver but not too sure its cut out for subwoofer duty. Limited x-max and Fs is 60Hz.

Ge0


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## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

Don't sleep on the JL 10TW1. I have it in the footwell of my 991.2 and it sounds fantastic compared to the two 12W6's in my Jeep. I know of at least one vehicle that won a championship at Finals last year with the TW1. It works in a tiny box which suits what you are trying to do. It gives me plenty of low end even with the Targa top down. I put a Tru Tungsten Grande bridged on it and it absolutely loves the power. At my last competition I got first in Extreme Class. It really is a great value.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So a lockdown Christmas, bars are shut, plenty of time to come up with ideas. Just ordered up some Esotar 430 mids and MW172s for the bottom end in the doors.

While you can get bigger more impressive looking drivers for the doors, ultimately you bolt to a flimsy (/ suitably lightweight) plastic door skin so it'll never give the bottom end like a proper sub. So the MW172 will work with the 80w I have on the table with the Mosconi D2, especially if we bandpass it at say 85hz and run a 10TW3 out back.

Lots changed over time, and you can now buy rings complete with connectors for the Porsche loom from these guys: Audio Upgrade Packages for Porsche 911 - Rennspec


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Does anyone know of a compact mono sub amp with say 300-400 watts of power with an Optical Input?


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Muu said:


> So a lockdown Christmas, bars are shut, plenty of time to come up with ideas. Just ordered up some Esotar 430 mids and MW172s for the bottom end in the doors.
> 
> While you can get bigger more impressive looking drivers for the doors, ultimately you bolt to a flimsy (/ suitably lightweight) plastic door skin so it'll never give the bottom end like a proper sub. So the MW172 will work with the 80w I have on the table with the Mosconi D2, especially if we bandpass it at say 85hz and run a 10TW3 out back.
> 
> Lots changed over time, and you can now buy rings complete with connectors for the Porsche loom from these guys: Audio Upgrade Packages for Porsche 911 - Rennspec


Can’t beat the Rennspec options!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Had a look at the focals but not really a fan of wicker cone. Even the JL TW3 I'd want to debadge by spraying the cap with something like plastidip


The cone is not wicker. H3ll, it isn't even wood. It's linen cloth. There are Youtube videos of Focal constructing these in their factory.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> Can’t beat the Rennspec options!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How so?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> So a lockdown Christmas, bars are shut, plenty of time to come up with ideas. Just ordered up some Esotar 430 mids and MW172s for the bottom end in the doors.
> 
> While you can get bigger more impressive looking drivers for the doors, ultimately you bolt to a flimsy (/ suitably lightweight) plastic door skin so it'll never give the bottom end like a proper sub. So the MW172 will work with the 80w I have on the table with the Mosconi D2, especially if we bandpass it at say 85hz and run a 10TW3 out back.
> 
> Lots changed over time, and you can now buy rings complete with connectors for the Porsche loom from these guys: Audio Upgrade Packages for Porsche 911 - Rennspec


Are you going to copy EVERYTHING I do


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Does anyone know of a compact mono sub amp with say 300-400 watts of power with an Optical Input?


HELIX P TWO | Audiotec Fischer (audiotec-fischer.de)


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> The cone is not wicker. H3ll, it isn't even wood. It's linen cloth. There are Youtube videos of Focal constructing these in their factory.


yeah it more said in jest, I'm after a driver that is more plain for an OEM look. I'd love the Estoar 1200 but no space, so might look at a JL TW and see if we can de-brand it.



Ge0 said:


> Are you going to copy EVERYTHING I do


Depends, got any more ideas I don't know about? 



Ge0 said:


> HELIX P TWO | Audiotec Fischer (audiotec-fischer.de)


Many thanks, will look into that. Half the challenge is finding space for it.


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> How so?


The adapters that folks don’t have to make IMO. Especially for those not as mechanically inclined


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah you'll notice where the RennSpec tweeter mount came design originated (by permission). Ultimately I'm not going to make the mounts any nicer than the ones from James, nor any cheaper, plus he has the wiring and tested depth etc.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice build so far! You are killing it with the 3D models and printing!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

The door rings are from rennspec, James sorted me out there. Can't fault his work


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Beautiful speaker!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So looking at the rear of a 991 there is a nice nook to put a small amp, with easy access to a fuse box. Wondering if a JL mx300/1 would sit nicely under the suspension management module in there middle.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Did you ever finish that sub box, using a Focal 10WM ?

Had you ever considered using a shallow mount sub in that rear parcel location, and making a shallow box?
I would think something like a JL 13tw5v2-4 would work nicely in that location.









13TW5v2-4


TW5v2 13.5-inch Subwoofer (600 W, 4 Ω) We couldn’t leave the ultimate thin woofer alone... we had to make it even better. Our patented thin-line woofer technology compresses the architecture of the 13TW5v2 using a “concentric tube” structure that supports the 7-inch diameter voice coil and the...




www.jlaudio.com


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> View attachment 297980
> 
> View attachment 297981
> 
> ...


Dynaudio midbass. What a beautiful thing. 

FYI. I prefer to use hex head screws to fasten them in for a reason. I've poked through too many speaker surrounds with a screw driver .


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> View attachment 297985
> 
> View attachment 297986


FYI. I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll need to bolt the mounting rings to the FRONT face of the speaker vs. REAR side of the flange. At least that's how James mounted them to his door in the Macan forum. Otherwise the front face of the speaker (surround) will press hard against the doors speaker grill.

I may be wrong. The 911 maybe different.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> Did you ever finish that sub box, using a Focal 10WM ?
> 
> Had you ever considered using a shallow mount sub in that rear parcel location, and making a shallow box?
> I would think something like a JL 13tw5v2-4 would work nicely in that location.
> ...


No not yet, thought I'd get my doors sorted and stop collecting bits before I'd fitted what I've already got in boxes. Had been waiting to get into my new house to then crack on.

Looking at an audison 10", it's meant to be very good + shallow + subtle without big branding.



Ge0 said:


> Dynaudio midbass. What a beautiful thing.
> 
> FYI. I prefer to use hex head screws to fasten them in for a reason. I've poked through too many speaker surrounds with a screw driver .


I very very nearly learnt that lesson myself today, future builds will have threads and machine screws as you say.



Ge0 said:


> FYI. I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll need to bolt the mounting rings to the FRONT face of the speaker vs. REAR side of the flange. At least that's how James mounted them to his door in the Macan forum. Otherwise the front face of the speaker (surround) will press hard against the doors speaker grill.
> 
> I may be wrong. The 911 maybe different.


I think I have this right based on his images online, the 911 has quite a deep door card but shallow door. I questioned if I'd need the spacer ring, and reply was that I did.

Good heads up though, I'll cross check ASAP.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is the only reason I say this. In the Macan there is a 4" (100mm) ring the speaker sits in. The mounting ears and Dynaudio badge O.D. on the E430 is 110mm. 









Also, Dynaudio wants you to leave 8mm free space available from the front face of the basket or 12mm measured from the rear mounting flange for the cone to move unobstructed.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Different car to mine, but still a 991 with e430


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Bare door









Work in progress:

































Forgot to take a photo of the door panel with treatment, will do on the next door.

Old tune still loaded, and bass dropped away due to moving from factory 2ohm to a 4 ohm. However already sweeter.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> View attachment 298063
> 
> 
> Different car to mine, but still a 991 with e430


Oh sh1t. That's pretty.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Bare door
> View attachment 298623
> 
> 
> ...


Nice work my guy. Looking sweet.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

man, i am dying to do an upgrade to my GT3 stereo. great thread! any more pics of connecting power wire to the power junction in the passenger footwell area?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

vactor said:


> man, i am dying to do an upgrade to my GT3 stereo. great thread! any more pics of connecting power wire to the power junction in the passenger footwell area?


Have a look at the musicar installs for the LHD cars, it's MUCH easier than RHD


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## robolop (Mar 10, 2008)

This is so cool. Respect dude for what you do with the Porsche


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So stumbled upon the audio frog blog on crossovers, very interesting stuff and learnt a lot that I want to fold into this build on the DSP front.





__





Audiofrog Tech Blog - Audiofrog


Audiofrog tech blog




www.audiofrog.com





Picking up some more of the black treatment stuff on Saturday, along with a helix V8 & zen-m for my Merc. Hope to get the car physically done door wise and a baseline tune in this weekend.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Got the other door done...


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## 218625 (Jun 18, 2020)

Looking good!

That is some super-clean foam work.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Thank you, only costs me time right

Tune tomorrow, based on the audiofrog workflow


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

You may want to consider stuffing some closed cell foam around your door cards wiring like this:









The foam keeps the wires from rattling


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Good shout, I'll take a look


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

my my my, those 430s are epic

I followed the audiofrog workflow for tuning, have my delays + level + xovers + EQ on a per driver basis setup. When the profile loaded into the DSP and the whole config came together it was marked how good it was. Damped doors, and proper woofers on solid rings has moved the game forward, and it's all very stealth still.

MW172 with relatively modest power are ok, but given that the 430s have -7dB dialled in really the system is limited by the power in chan 5&6. Moving forward you'd either want a more powerful 6chan, or a 8chan bridged into a 6. However as my long term plan is a HP at 80hz with a sub LP at 60 (with a gain structure to make it cross at 80).

In other news this turned up:









eBay special, very nicely spec'd and the plan is to nest it under the seat by the amp, what's nice is the codec support on an android phone (pixel 5):









Plan is to feed the optical input on my DSP, which can switch on the presence of a digital signal.


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## RedSwede (Aug 11, 2017)

Could you tell me where you got all the OEM integration connectors? I'm having a hard time especially with the large 20-pin and smaller signal connectors to interface to the amp harness.

Speaker interface connectors are readily available in the US, at least.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Top HiFi (Option 6F2) Archives - Technic PNP







technicpnp.com





The VAG one you can get on ebay germany


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## DriverDaily (May 1, 2021)

Did you need the spacers to get the midbass to fit in the doors with the windows?

Also, when you did the sound treatment, did you only do the outside of the vapor barrier? I want to do both sides, but I also don't want to deal with pulling the airbag out to get the vapor barrier out.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yes there is a ring RS supplied, and yes only the face of the plastic panel and some squares on the door skin from through the bass driver hole. Didn't want too much in my car.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> You may want to consider stuffing some closed cell foam around your door cards wiring like this:
> View attachment 300488
> 
> 
> The foam keeps the wires from rattling


Thanks for all your input Geo, amazing to have you in the thread. Tim


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## elektron (Nov 9, 2012)

I absolutely do not understand install like this, lot of work with nice details, very good drivers. And all this effort is ruined with location under the oem door trim (specially dyn 430 mid) and amp like this small mosconi which is absolutely undepower for Dynaudio speakers...


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Desire for it to be 100% stealth, and reversible.

Bigger amp would have been nice, but due limits with the tracking module in place.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Going to drop in a new head unit in, after seeing how factory this one looks:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

elektron said:


> I absolutely do not understand install like this, lot of work with nice details, very good drivers. And all this effort is ruined with location under the oem door trim (specially dyn 430 mid) and amp like this small mosconi which is absolutely undepower for Dynaudio speakers...


sorry but you are wrong about the 430 in factory location, i have mine is the same location and they sound superb, i do have custom pillars with the 110 in them but the 430 and 650 are in stock locations and sound/image incredibly well


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Conversion loom with CAN integration


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## OneFastCanuck (Aug 18, 2021)

awesome thread and damn you have my dream car!

Loving the cleanliness and simplicity of your build. Also a fan of the OEM plug-and-play type installs. 

One thing I noticed in your photos is how underwhelming the OEM speakers look, for a 'Premium' audio system - paper cones SERIOUSLY! But all manufacturers seem to be of the same thinking - 'MORE speakers is better' without even doing any proper digital signal processing or putting proper components in. More like the marketing teams design the sound systems than actual sound engineers LOL! We don't need a damn 21-speaker sound system, give me a PROPER 3-way up front, some decent imaging, with a decent sub damnit! But hey, if the systems came that decent fromt he factory, what the heck would us audiophiles do in our spare time?

Curious to see what you do with your subwoofer. In my golf R, I wanted to keep my back hatch useable, so I built the enclosure into the floor and threw two 10'' low profile subs in there. The whole enclosure is about 5 inches thick, and fits into the floor recess, so only slightly higher than the original false floor. The only thing I am not 100% happy with is that they don't play too well under 25-ish Hz, but it really depends on what music I am listening to (some rap songs it is noticeable but that's about it) otherwise they play beautifully and hit hard when required, and integrated very well with the front end - of course tuning was KEY!


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

You are doing an excellent job with the install. I am sure this is going to sound great.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

OneFastCanuck said:


> More like the marketing teams design the sound systems than actual sound engineers.


This is the way it's done.
Some manufacturers actually hire audio experts to help, but the marketing team is always in charge.


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## OneFastCanuck (Aug 18, 2021)

ckirocz28 said:


> This is the way it's done.
> Some manufacturers actually hire audio experts to help, but the marketing team is always in charge.


Well, the bean counters are actually in charge, followed by marketing - and if any budget left, an audio expert lmao


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Got some time / motivation to get the HU in, started making up the line level loom to amp.

Van Damme professional multicore & rean connectors:


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

Super clean as always 👍


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## whodareswins (Jan 3, 2015)

Great build so far. 

Makes me want to buy a newish car and do this kind of OEM+ install. 

Will you demo the car at any shows in the U.K.


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## CLK63DK (Nov 20, 2010)

Any updates? #curious


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Been super busy at work and with a house renovation (complete with 7.4.1 Atmos build) but do need to spend some time with the 911.


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## MrHarris (Feb 3, 2011)

Very impressive. I wish best of luck and will be following this thread out of curiosity and enjoyment in seeing a good thing become great


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Muu said:


> Been super busy at work and with a house renovation (complete with 7.4.1 Atmos build) but do need to spend some time with the 911.


If you want a hand tuning the car drop me a message 👍🏼


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

dumdum said:


> If you want a hand tuning the car drop me a message 👍🏼


Nice one, going to swap a helix v eight I have spare in, then might take you up on that offer. Where in UK are you?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Muu said:


> Nice one, going to swap a helix v eight I have spare in, then might take you up on that offer. Where in UK are you?


In the middle buddy, near Nottingham/Mansfield, j27/28 M1

it just so happens helix is what I’m extremely well versed in! 😎


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