# Brahma 12 questions and review



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Well my brahma 12 arrived. I've included a non eqed measurement.

I'm pretty disappointed in output. With its throw I was hoping it would be in the ballpark of a ported w6 12. That's just not the case. My last w612 absolutely pounded when I wanted it. That may not seem like a fair comparison to judge 1 12 sealed vs 1 ported but the brahma has a ton more xmax. 
It's nowhere near enough output for me sealed.

I've tuned it a bit and smoothed out the response. It didnt take much.


The good. Its clean. Very , very clean. Nice texture. 

I can tell its moving some air. It bounces my windshield wipers more than 2 frog gb10s in a ported enclosure but sounds like around about half of the output. 

It has no problem hitting any note thrown at it with grace and authority. It's a really solid sq sub.

The bad. I never imagined it would bottom out so quickly on 1200w. 
I feel like as soon as it starts getting to the output I want its reaching its mechnail limits.

If I'm going to keep it I am definilty going to have to find a way to port it . 

1v1 a gb 10 vs the brahma 12 I feel like output sounds to be about the same. That makes no need sense to me but I am guessing it's due to how clean the brahma is. 
I feel like the gb 10 with almost half the xmax actually felt tighter and more punchy with a firmer blow to the chest. 

I know I'm just expecting too much from a sealed 12. It reminds me of the w7 8. I was expecting a LOT more output. 

If you're in the market for a super clean 12 that can deliver great bass at normal sq levels is have no problem recommending the brahma. 

If you are looking for a single sub solution for sql I dont believe this is it. 

In all fairness the box is a bit small at .66 but I will try a larger enclosure and a ported enclosure before I give up and will return to this thread with my thoughts, but as of right now I'm back to searching for a 12 with more ouput. 


If any of you are familiar how would you compare the brahma 12 to a jlw7 12 in terms of output?


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

The only subwoofer that I had that could outdo my ported GB12 in perceived SPL was my ported Sundown SA12. That stupid thing on 1200 watts was insane! You might want to look at least a Sundown SA series, maybe something even more powerful with three times the amplifier power. Also, sealed my GB12 is borderline anemic compared to it ported because that is to be expected of any sealed vs properly ported configuration. Actually my ported Sundown SD310 in my truck is impressive because it goes so low and seems to have that just right sound. The SA series has more distortion but that’s not necessarily a bad thing in a subwoofer. I never had a JL W6 (but listened to them) but I have owned a few of their lower models and they never disappointed. 

I’m pretty sure you’re more of an SPL guy and I think 1200 watts with one 12 sealed just ain’t going to cut it for you no matter the brand. Your perception of the W6 being superior I think is off since so much time has gone by since that time you owned it. I had an opportunity to listen to a pair of sealed W6 and they were comparable to my GB12 ported. You also have to give that Brama time to break in. All subwoofers get louder as their suspension breaks in.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

JCsAudio said:


> The only subwoofer that I had that could outdo my ported GB12 in perceived SPL was my ported Sundown SA12. That stupid thing on 1200 watts was insane! You might want to look at least a Sundown SA series, maybe something even more powerful with three times the amplifier power. Also, sealed my GB12 is borderline anemic compared to it ported because that is to be expected of any sealed vs properly ported configuration. Actually my ported Sundown SD310 in my truck is impressive because it goes so low and seems to have that just right sound. The SA series has more distortion but that’s not necessarily a bad thing in a subwoofer. I never had a JL W6 (but listened to them) but I have owned a few of their lower models and they never disappointed.
> 
> I’m pretty sure you’re more of an SPL guy and I think 1200 watts with one 12 sealed just ain’t going to cut it for you no matter the brand. Your perception of the W6 being superior I think is off since so much time has gone by since that time you owned it. I had an opportunity to listen to a pair of sealed W6 and they were comparable to my GB12 ported. You also have to give that Brama time to break in. All subwoofers get louder as their suspension breaks in.


My time with w6 12s was extensive. Ive run them since v1. 2 ported w6 v2s could suck the roof of my explorer in almost 2 inches on 1000w. Of course the tuning was around 40hz.

In my last truck, 1 w6 12 v3 was more than enough and those focal utopias the subs were mated to had 460w per side available to them. The sub had no issues keeping up. The Brahma is barely keeping up the the frog gb's. BARELY. I cannot turn the volume up to what I normally could without the sub giving up. I'm not used to having subs quit before the mids. I've never had this issue before . 

I dont think think the w6 is "better" driver by any means. I just know their ouput capability. 

I haven't given up. I'm going to throw a couple thousand more watts at this brahma and see if I can get a bit more out of it. Finding a way to port it is turning out to be a real pain though due to box design limitations.


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

drop1 said:


> My time with w6 12s was extensive. Ive run them since v1. 2 ported w6 v2s could suck the roof of my explorer in almost 2 inches on 1000w. Of course the tuning was around 40hz.
> 
> In my last truck, 1 w6 12 v3 was more than enough and those focal utopias the subs were mated to had 460w per side available to them. The sub had no issues keeping up. The Brahma is barely keeping up the the frog gb's. BARELY. I cannot turn the volume up to what I normally could without the sub giving up. I'm not used to having subs quit before the mids. I've never had this issue before .
> 
> ...


What amp are you using with it? If it's bottoming out on 1200 watts, will more watts help with that?


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

I think the enclosure is too small, why did you switch from the w6v3?


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Enclosure is for sure to small. And again with this type of sub as I and others said. It wont sound as loud but on the meter it will be just as loud or louder.


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Mullings said:


> I think the enclosure is too small, why did you switch from the w6v3?


I think that's the recommended sealed box volume from Adire


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Well 3 things. 

1. As far as i can see on their site. They don't list an enclosure size outright. You have to look in their "loaded" enclosures section to get an answer. They sell their 12 in a 1.0 cuft enclosure. Idk if that's with or without displacement included. 

2. The sensitivities between your chosen drivers are far far different. The brahma is 84.93 dB @ 1W/1m, the audiofrog gb12 is 95 dB at 2.83 volts. Those are HUGE differences.

3. Its been proven over and over that we perceive a signal with distortion to be louder. IDK if you have ever heard another XBL driver but its insane how transparent they are. 

Build a bigger box and give yourself a 15hz 24db SSF


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Well 3 things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly. It's the xbl. That's why I'm saying it will meter louder but wont sound as loud. 

Brahmas do get loud. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

ToNasty said:


> Exactly. It's the xbl. That's why I'm saying it will meter louder but wont sound as loud.
> 
> Brahmas do get loud.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Its a combination of the 3. 6-10db difference(accounting for voltage difference) in sensitivity is like having another driver on double or quadruple the power. its a big ****ing deal.

Half the enclosure size is going to severely limit output. 

and yes. XBL

Has anyone metered one yet?


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## bassace (Oct 31, 2011)

What happens next? Brahma X, Kali?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

bassace said:


> What happens next? Brahma X, Kali?


Kali, hands down.
:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

I tried to tell you, you tend to be a little basshead and will thus never be satisfied with Adire. What you were thinking, I do not know. 

And I don't like that company, its history, its product, etc, anyhow and have been banned off several groups on Facebook just for voicing that opinion. They like to do this subversive advertising thing where they take over a forum or facebook group and advertise essentially for free. Worse than SI all day, and that is saying something.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

GEM592 said:


> I tried to tell you, you tend to be a little basshead and will thus never be satisfied with Adire. What you were thinking, I do not know.
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't like that company, its history, its product, etc, anyhow and have been banned off several groups on Facebook just for voicing that opinion. They like to do this subversive advertising thing where they take over a forum or facebook group and advertise essentially for free. Worse than SI all day, and that is saying something.


Ironic they are both xbl2 companies

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## ManBearPig (Jul 18, 2016)

bassace said:


> What happens next? Brahma X, Kali?


I would go idmax


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> I tried to tell you, you tend to be a little basshead and will thus never be satisfied with Adire. What you were thinking, I do not know.
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't like that company, its history, its product, etc, anyhow and have been banned off several groups on Facebook just for voicing that opinion. They like to do this subversive advertising thing where they take over a forum or facebook group and advertise essentially for free. Worse than SI all day, and that is saying something.


You were banned because you posted something negative about the company and refused to answer questions or provide any backup as to why. When we realized that you were GEM from diyma, we saved ourselves future hassle and did it sooner than later. Sorry not sorry. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

bassace said:


> What happens next? Brahma X, Kali?


I was pretty surprised to find that there is actually a Kali subwoofer


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Incidentally just installed a Tumult an hour back in 1.7 cu ft ported box. It replaced my Ultimo. Initial impressions are nice. Goes loud enough for me and maintains composure while doing so. Need it to break in and tune and then test further.

For the OP I would recommend to use a 1 cu ft box and then try

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

With as clean as the sound is from the XBL² motor, I'm surprised you have it crossed over so low. When I had my XXX 12" mkI, I could cross it over near 100Hz, and yes while it did add to the localization of it, it was so clean that it blended so well with the rest of the speakers. Sometimes people use a very low LPF to keep a typical overhung subs from producing too much distortion that is localizable (because they are multiples of a given frequency). But the cleaner the sub is, the less this is a problem, IMO. Same with my W10GTi. I could cross that sucker at 115-120Hz and it just sounded sooooo good! Even though I could tell it was coming from the rear of the car in the trunk, the bass lines sounded sweeeeeet!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

We already discovered from your other threads that you want high distortion sub-bass, now you have experienced first hand why. The distortion gives the perception of more output, which most people really like. The Brahma should still get plenty loud, but it is your fault that you bought an ultra low distortion sub, when you like lots of low frequency distortion. 

Literally everything you post suggests that you don't actually care about SQ, or at least you define the term differently than the way most people would define the term. You want SPL, nothing wrong with that, but shopping for low distortion xbl motored subs is going to leave you disappointed.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

gijoe said:


> We already discovered from your other threads that you want high distortion sub-bass, now you have experienced first hand why. The distortion gives the perception of more output, which most people really like. The Brahma should still get plenty loud, but it is your fault that you bought an ultra low distortion sub, when you like lots of low frequency distortion.
> 
> Literally everything you post suggests that you don't actually care about SQ, or at least you define the term differently than the way most people would define the term. You want SPL, nothing wrong with that, but shopping for low distortion xbl motored subs is going to leave you disappointed.


I do care about sq. A lot actually. I have 2 modes of listening. 

When I listen to jazz, classical, most pop, funk and the sort I listen between 95 and 100db and I want near perfect sound. 



Then there is hard rock and dance and all bets are off. 

On the sq side in really like this sub. On the dance side it doesnt have the impact I am looking for. 


Someone mentioned that if its bottoming out at 1200w what would adding power do? 
Better cone control. Youd be surprised what power can do to a driver. 


Like I said. I havent given up. Im going try a larger sealed enclosure, then a ported enclosure. Then add power . In that order. 
Ported should give me what I want. I may need to scrap my amp rack plans to do so though. I'm going to port it at 30. I believe the ported enclosure will surpass the dual gb 10s perceived ouput. In this tiny sealed box its not too far behind already. 

That's all I really want. A single driver that can surpass 2 frog 10s. If I could have found a way to keep 2 gb 10s that's exactly what I would have done. 1 inst enough for me but 2 ported was nice and almost loud enough. If they had another few mm of xmax they would have been great. I just cant fit multiple drivers or super deep drivers like w7s. 


If this doesn't work I may try a brahma 15 or brahma x 15. 

Ported with some extra wattage should do it though.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

If it don't work, sell it to me. I could use a Brahma 12. Is it a D2 or D4?


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Oscar said:


> If it don't work, sell it to me. I could use a Brahma 12. Is it a D2 or D4?


I was going to say the same. Brahma is my favorite sub

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

ToNasty said:


> I was going to say the same. Brahma is my favorite sub
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


My all-time fav is the W10GTi, and it over-took my RE XXX 12Q1.4 in SQ, but at the time, I didn't have a truly systematic way of testing them on a level playing field. Now that I do, I'm hoping to have a better way of obtaining more objective results between their comparisons (between the Brahma 10D2 and the W10GTi).


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

drop1 said:


> I do care about sq. A lot actually. I have 2 modes of listening.
> 
> When I listen to jazz, classical, most pop, funk and the sort I listen between 95 and 100db and I want near perfect sound.
> 
> ...


If you are bottoming out with 1200 watts, adding more power will not help you by giving you more cone control, adding more power won't help anything. You need more displacement if you want more output.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

gijoe said:


> If you are bottoming out with 1200 watts, adding more power will not help you by giving you more cone control, adding more power won't help anything. You need more displacement if you want more output.


I highly doubt its bottoming out. I've stuck one on 1500 ported and didnt bottom it out 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

What are the dimensions of the enclosure you built? Post a photo if you can.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ToNasty said:


> I highly doubt its bottoming out. I've stuck one on 1500 ported and didnt bottom it out
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


look at xmax on a ported vs sealed in a modeling software


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> look at xmax on a ported vs sealed in a modeling software


I dont have modeling software more do I have a computer. I just know the many brahmas I've had I dont think I've ever bottomed one out 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

ToNasty, excursion is kept in check in a ported box because the subwoofer cone hardly moves at all at tuning frequency (fb), a subsonic is applied (if needed depending on fb), and you even tune out cabin gain (cut with EQ) than cone excursion will be much less in a ported box compared to a sealed box. 

I believe this is what SkizeR is eluding too.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

JCsAudio said:


> ToNasty, excursion is kept in check in a ported box because the subwoofer cone hardly moves at all at tuning frequency (fb), a subsonic is applied (if needed depending on fb), and you even tune out cabin gain (cut with EQ) than cone excursion will be much less in a ported box compared to a sealed box.
> 
> I believe this is what SkizeR is eluding too.


I agree with this method to "level things out". I prefer a flat response first, and then as more (louder) bass is needed, then using a low-shelf boost via DSP (or equivalently a high-shelf attenuation) can get the bass levels where they need to be without being overly boomy at any frequency affected by cabin gain.

Granted this a dbx DriveRack home audio DSP, but this is what I do after the in-room response is nice and flat using other notch filters


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

drop1 said:


> My time with w6 12s was extensive. Ive run them since v1. 2 ported w6 v2s could suck the roof of my explorer in almost 2 inches on 1000w. Of course the tuning was around 40hz.
> 
> In my last truck, 1 w6 12 v3 was more than enough and those focal utopias the subs were mated to had 460w per side available to them. The sub had no issues keeping up. The Brahma is barely keeping up the the frog gb's. BARELY. I cannot turn the volume up to what I normally could without the sub giving up. I'm not used to having subs quit before the mids. I've never had this issue before .
> 
> ...


Drop1, Attached is a model I did in Bassbox pro showing one 12" Adire Audio Brahma (orange), vs One JL Audio 12W6v3 (red) vs two AudioFrog GB10 (yellow) all sealed. As you can see in the model all these subwoofers have about the same SPL from about 50 Hz and down with the JL having a 1.8 db advantage over the duel sealed GB10's and a .9 db advantage over the Brahma 12 at 35 Hz. The Brahma and JL W6 do not model well in a ported boxes because they require a very large box to get the QTC down. The sealed box sizes are 2 cu ft, 2 cu ft, and 2.2 cu ft respectively.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

This is what they look like in the same size ported boxes on 1200 watts (same as sealed) and all tuned to about 30 Hz.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> ToNasty said:
> 
> 
> > I highly doubt its bottoming out. I've stuck one on 1500 ported and didnt bottom it out
> ...



This right here. The tiny sealed test box requires a ton of excursion to hit low notes.

The small box is also causing a pretty steep roll off around 30hz I believe.

If you look at the original chart I posted it can be seen. 

A larger box is definitely in order. This box was what I had laying around from testing the gb 10.

The gb 10 in the same box definalty had more smack to it. It did great in the gut and chest punching category but I couldnt get it to safely play low enough, loud enough for my taste.


I sorely miss the days of old hatchback Explorer. 
These big trucks are such a pain in the ass.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm almost to the point I want to just yank the back seats out and do 2 ported.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Oh, dumb question. 

Is the port volume included in the box volume or do you need box volume and port volume to be separate?


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Does anyone have links to pictures where someone actually built a rear seat as a sub box and had the top upholstered with the stock cushion and cloth? 

I believe this is the only way to get enough room to port the sub. I could build a box on the small 40 percent of the 60/40 split seat and make a false top to make it look stock with everyhring below it being box.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Just add a cushion


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I think that is what they did here:


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Better yet, make the amps the back cushions and the magnets the seats!


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

DavidRam said:


> Better yet, make the amps the back cushions and the magnets the seats! <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />


I was trying not to go so crazy but to get where I want to be sound wise I may need to. 

The amps in the backs , subs I'm the seats is something I've been considering since my last truck. 

I domt have a drive shaft hump. The floors in the rear are perfectly flat which would make things super easy. 

Then I could run 4 ported brahams! Jk.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Whos a geometry nerd?

This is the space of a single seat. 

External dimensions. 

What's the cubic ft using 3/4" material.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

drop1 said:


> Whos a geometry nerd?
> 
> This is the space of a single seat.
> 
> ...


I get 1.75 without subtracting material and port.

Is this enough to port the brahma?

What size and length pvc ports would I need to hit 30hz in this space? I'd like to run at least 2 ports, 3 if I can to keep port velocity down.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Anyone cam throw together a quick basic slot port box drawing using 3/4 material for a test box. 

Will the brahma work in a ported box built for a w6 12? I have an old box laying around that's built to jls specs


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## rayray881 (Jul 15, 2013)

Nope.


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## FattyBoomBoom (Sep 22, 2019)

drop1 said:


> Whos a geometry nerd?
> 
> This is the space of a single seat.
> 
> ...


The drawing is 1.25 cubic feet internal


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

drop1 said:


> I'm almost to the point I want to just yank the back seats out and do 2 ported.


If you are the type of guy looking to pull seats out of car for a box, a single Brahma was never going to satisfy you. I have to agree with GI Joe, you sound more like you want block rocker vs. SQ, which is cool. I was there at one point as well. I used to be a 15" solobaric guy. I would say something along the lines of a SA series would be more up your alley. Build a big ported box, multiple drivers, and throw a crap ton of power at them and have at it.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

gijoe said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I do care about sq. A lot actually. I have 2 modes of listening.
> ...


I hear what your saying but I've ALWAYS had luck doubling or tripling a speakers power.


I can bottom out my gb 60w easily crossed at 80hz on 150w but on 250w they get louder and bottom out later. 

Subs have been the same way for me. It seems to make the trasisnts sharper which leads to a more powerful sound wearher it's actually louder or not. 

I dont know the why but if you haven't tried it, try it yourself. 

I think that maybe the amp starts losing control as it reaches its limits. I could be dead wrong but that's what I feel happens.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Jroo said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm almost to the point I want to just yank the back seats out and do 2 ported.
> ...



I dont think you guys are understanding. I CAN NOT get the required airspace to port that sub without altering the seats. That's the only reason I'm even considering it. Nothing to do with being a block rocker. 

I wanted 1 12 sealed so it would tuck nice under the rear seat but it's not enough to get plus 9db over the mids at volume and I want plus 12db. 

I believe ported with more power will get me there but I HAVE to mod the seats to make the install look correct. There just isn't enough room to use a ported box without altering the truck.

So if I'm modding seats already, why not go all the way? 

If I can get the sub to port correctly in this space I will happily leave the rest of my seats alone.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

drop1 said:


> I dont think you guys are understanding. I CAN NOT get the required airspace to port that sub without altering the seats. That's the only reason I'm even considering it. Nothing to do with being a block rocker.
> 
> I wanted 1 12 sealed so it would tuck nice under the rear seat but it's not enough to get plus 9db over the mids at volume and I want plus 12db.
> 
> .


I think a few others may have missed what you are trying to do. I saw earlier you listed a seat dimension, but dont recall until now you mentioning you are tying to get a 12 under a seat. What type truck is this?


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

FattyBoomBoom said:


> The drawing is 1.25 cubic feet internal


Yup, that's right, that's what I get as well. To not lose any volume to a port, one can always do a passive radiator somehow wedged in there. Two 10s at bare minimum. Earthquake SLAPS-M 10" passive radiators are $40ea on Amazon and have a good amount of excursion potential. 12s are like $50ea usually.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Jroo said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think you guys are understanding. I CAN NOT get the required airspace to port that sub without altering the seats. That's the only reason I'm even considering it. Nothing to do with being a block rocker.
> ...


It's a 2016 f150. I really wanted to be able to hit the 130db mark. It was just my best case goal. I'd be ok with 125db. Below 120db on my dance music just doesnt feel right. 

I'm really trying to find a way to keep the seats stick looking even if the small section is hollowed out. I'm also trying to mount 3 amps under the 60 percent section of seat.

If sealed were loud enough I could have easily done what I wanted but it's not and now I'm scrambling to change the design plans.

I havent even got to install my gb 25 mids yet. I have to get the sub/amprack in first so I can install the amp to supply power to my mids. 

This is really dragging on a lot longer than I wanted. 

Is there even a 12 that can do 125/130db sealed in these big trucks while still sounding great ?


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

A bed cover and blow through is looking more and more attractive every day.

Then I could mount my amps under the seats and run 2 ported 15s if I chose to. I could easily get down into the teens with that! Would be awesome but I'm scared to cut my truck.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Have you even looked at a passive radiator?
Ther is now at there is enough volume for a port in that box.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

Holmz said:


> Have you even looked at a passive radiator?
> Ther is now at there is enough volume for a port in that box.


Think outside the box. :laugh:


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Those Earthquake SLAPS (lol) PR's would probably work. I'm modeling them now.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I would also be looking at a steel or aluminium box.
Especially if someone is going to be occasionally sitting on them, then you will need something that will not rip out in an accident.

The plus side is that with some angle iron/alloy they can be still, and you get back a few litres of internal volume, which you probably need.

Or maybe a thick fibreglass layup?

Something like a foam, covered with a denser memory foam may give a bit more comfort

Then if you had a passive, I am not even sure if there is a place for it, and where it would vent towards?

Lastly if the box is too small for enough volume for a 12"... then is a 10" out of the question?


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

Brahma 12D2 in 1.0 ft³ ported to about ~34Hz with two 10" PR's. F3 about 31Hz, usable response down into the high twenties. HPF @ 20Hz, LPF @ 100Hz. Driver/PR excursion graph with 1000WRMS input power.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Holmz said:


> I would also be looking at a steel or aluminium box.


Don't you think steel or aluminum is going to resonate like crazy? If either was a good enclosure material don't you think the car/home audio world have embraced it and every other build would have a steel or aluminum enclosure?

And Drop it looks like internal volume or your enclosure drawing volume is 1.25 cuft. Have you seen what Big Al is doing with his truck yet? Might be something to consider.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

DaveG said:


> Don't you think steel or aluminum is going to resonate like crazy? If either was a good enclosure material don't you think the car/home audio world have embraced it and every other build would have a steel or aluminum enclosure?
> 
> And Drop it looks like internal volume or your enclosure drawing volume is 1.25 cuft. Have you seen what Big Al is doing with his truck yet? Might be something to consider.


Magicos have aluminum skeletons, as does some very high end subwoofers like Krell's. Reason the rest hasn't caught on? $$$,$$$.00 is the usual cost of a system that has these level of speakers. Aluminum can be made to work when carefully engineered as part of a system. Steel is just too damn heavy/dense, and would likely ring if not carefully addressed.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

OK, modeling complete. 



Its pretty clear. The PR approach works FANTASTICALLY with the Earthquake SLAPS M12 and the included 255 grams of weight. You'll be almost exactly on-track SPL And response-wise to a 1.2 cubic foot ported box w/ 28hz tune. In fact, the response rate is identical until 30hz, where the ported enclosure has a minor advantage but it isn't going to be easily audible. Both are FLAT in response, no extra peaks (but cabin gain will add to that.) The difference between the small sealed Brahma model is ~5.9 dB at 40hz. You'll hear that. But keep in mind, I'm modeling at 1.2 cubes here. If you go less than that, you're going to lose SPL. However, the response is still quite good even with a box closer to 1 cubic foot. So, running just one PR is a great option.




Hey if anybody wants to make an LFE monster.... I stumbled on a build. Go 2.0 cubic feet, use two Earthquake PR's, use 550 grams of weight added per PR, and push it as hard as you can. 113dB at 30hz, and it drops down 3dB by... 22hz. muwahahha


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

DaveG said:


> Don't you think steel or aluminum is going to resonate like crazy? If either was a good enclosure material don't you think the car/home audio world have embraced it and every other build would have a steel or aluminum enclosure?
> 
> And Drop it looks like internal volume or your enclosure drawing volume is 1.25 cuft. Have you seen what Big Al is doing with his truck yet? Might be something to consider.





Oscar said:


> Magicos have aluminum skeletons, as does some very high end subwoofers like Krell's. Reason the rest hasn't caught on? $$$,$$$.00 is the usual cost of a system that has these level of speakers. Aluminum can be made to work when carefully engineered as part of a system. Steel is just too damn heavy/dense, and would likely ring if not carefully addressed.


My home sub has a hardened steel enclosure, Gallo Acoustics Tr-3D:










I love the idea of an aluminum enclosure, and it's on the list of my "just for fun" things to build...


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Holmz said:


> Have you even looked at a passive radiator?
> Ther is now at there is enough volume for a port in that box.


I don't know where I'd put it. The only place it will fit would be sub downfiring, passive shooting up.


If I went with my original box design

18x4x60" external i could modd that and put 2 paissves down firing. Would something like that work?


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Lanson said:


> OK, modeling complete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Check this out.


I added a bunch of blackhole poly. I gained almost 6gb at 30 hz in the same .66 sealed enclosure.

In fact I gained at least 3 db across the board. 

The blue line was measured with the radio volume LOUDER than the black line. I turned it down on the last measurement to make the graphs align better so I could compare frequency response better.

After hearing this, I have no doubt that porting this thing will get me where I want to be. The fact that it got louder due to the sensitivity the poly added makes me feel like adding another 1000w or so into a ported enclosure will get me fantastic results. 

Hell after the poly I'm close. Another 6 to 10 db will be perfect!


----------



## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

Lanson said:


> OK, modeling complete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where's the model?


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Looking at all these options im getting real curious about the brahma 15. I have the 12 doing pretty good right now and I'm wondering what the 15 sealed with 3000w available to it could do. 

Anyone think a brahma 15 sealed could actually do 130db with music?


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Oscar said:


> Where's the model?













These are all at 1000W. 



There's TONS of room prior to xmax of both the PR, and the Adire sub itself Power handling is what I limited it to.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

drop1 said:


> Looking at all these options im getting real curious about the brahma 15. I have the 12 doing pretty good right now and I'm wondering what the 15 sealed with 3000w available to it could do.
> 
> Anyone think a brahma 15 sealed could actually do 130db with music?



I modeled the Brahma D2 (edit: the 15" version) sealed and ported, and the first thing I want to point out is you will be fighting for space. Sealed, a Qtc .8 box is still 2 cubic feet plus. Ported this sub begs to be stuffed in a house in a big-ass box, tuned LOW. In a vehicle, you're going to be 4.5 to 5 cubic feet, tuned like 26hz or so. Its got a smooth lift at 35hz or so, but I prefer flat ported low-tuned setups that tune that port BELOW cabin gain, which gives you that extension. Anyway, its 120dB at 35 hz, about 119 at 40hz before cabin gain.


I could probably just teach you how to use WinISD so you could run these things yourself. Same with when you asked for info on what cubic feet something is. That's just math, easy math at that. Let's just teach you how to use something like Sketchup or whatever so you're comfy with making this stuff. It can be fun too.




BTW, Passive Radiators ONLY run perpendicular to gravity. The weight on the cone is sensitive to sag. Its a lot of weight. Remember, the PR is tuned much like a column of air in a port. Its basically the same thing we're trying to resonate. The PR has the big advantage of taking no extra space in the box, which sometimes ports can be a HUGE space-taker. PR's are really cool, I'm a big fan. I used them in home audio a ton.


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Lanson said:


> I modeled the Brahma D2 sealed and ported, and the first thing I want to point out is you will be fighting for space. Sealed, a Qtc .8 box is still 2 cubic feet plus. Ported this sub begs to be stuffed in a house in a big-ass box, tuned LOW. In a vehicle, you're going to be 4.5 to 5 cubic feet, tuned like 26hz or so. Its got a smooth lift at 35hz or so, but I prefer flat ported low-tuned setups that tune that port BELOW cabin gain, which gives you that extension. Anyway, its 120dB at 35 hz, about 119 at 40hz before cabin gain.
> 
> 
> I could probably just teach you how to use WinISD so you could run these things yourself. Same with when you asked for info on what cubic feet something is. That's just math, easy math at that. Let's just teach you how to use something like Sketchup or whatever so you're comfy with making this stuff. It can be fun too.
> ...


So you're saying the ported box Adire sells for the Brahma (2.0 CUFT) is too small?


----------



## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

Lanson said:


> I modeled the Brahma D2 sealed and ported, and the first thing I want to point out is you will be fighting for space. Sealed, a Qtc .8 box is still 2 cubic feet plus. Ported this sub begs to be stuffed in a house in a big-ass box, tuned LOW. In a vehicle, you're going to be 4.5 to 5 cubic feet, tuned like 26hz or so. Its got a smooth lift at 35hz or so, but I prefer flat ported low-tuned setups that tune that port BELOW cabin gain, which gives you that extension. Anyway, its 120dB at 35 hz, about 119 at 40hz before cabin gain.
> 
> 
> I could probably just teach you how to use WinISD so you could run these things yourself. Same with when you asked for info on what cubic feet something is. That's just math, easy math at that. Let's just teach you how to use something like Sketchup or whatever so you're comfy with making this stuff. It can be fun too.
> ...


Are you pulling the right specs from their website? 
A Brahma 12 d2 has a qtc of .7 in .61 cubic feet sealed


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DaveG said:


> Don't you think steel or aluminum is going to resonate like crazy? If either was a good enclosure material don't you think the car/home audio world have embraced it and every other build would have a steel or aluminum enclosure?
> 
> And Drop it looks like internal volume or your enclosure drawing volume is 1.25 cuft. Have you seen what Big Al is doing with his truck yet? Might be something to consider.


I would prefer to Be seatbelted to steel or alloy, and not a chunk of MDF in the event of an accident...

The main reason MDF is popular is also because it is cheap and easy to work with.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

pw91686 said:


> Are you pulling the right specs from their website?
> A Brahma 12 d2 has a qtc of .7 in .61 cubic feet sealed



That is correct, the Brahma 12 does. 



That last comment you quoted there from me was for the 15" version. I added the extra comment to the post that it was for a 15" version since I didn't previously, hopefully that will help guard against the confusion. Note my previous comment where I explained that a 12" version will do beautifully in 1.2 cubes with a PR. Going bigger would do even better!


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Patriot83 said:


> So you're saying the ported box Adire sells for the Brahma (2.0 CUFT) is too small?



That's the 12", it would probably do great.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I can get another half cubic foot or so to help with the port tuning. If I dont mount my amps on top the long section like I want to I could fit a pair of pr's. Not sure I want to do that though. When my gb 10s were over there they created a huge null from 50 to 70 hz. 

Its gonna be an interesting box for sure.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Im really really confused right now.


It appears to be better to build an under sized box and stuff it will poly. 

Hear me out. 


I gained 3db across the board adding polly . 6 db at 30hz.

To top that off I can turn the sub up louder without it bottoming out. 

This nets me over 6 db across the board in extra ouput.


That's what I know from measurements.


Here's where I get confused.

Had I just built the larger, correct size box the sub would have been more sensitive yes but wouldn't it bottom out even earlier making the stuffed, undersized box superior?


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

drop1 said:


> Im really really confused right now.
> 
> 
> It appears to be better to build an under sized box and stuff it will poly.
> ...



Are you basing this off of the graph in post #65? If so, that does not show 3dB overall, and 6dB at 30hz. From 20-40hz there is a bit of a bump, but nowhere near 6dB anywhere. The biggest increase is at 40hz, and that's about 3dB. Even that I'd be skeptical of unless the several measurements were taken with the exact conditions.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

drop1 said:


> I can get another half cubic foot or so to help with the port tuning. If I dont mount my amps on top the long section like I want to I could fit a pair of pr's. Not sure I want to do that though. When my gb 10s were over there they created a huge null from 50 to 70 hz.
> 
> Its gonna be an interesting box for sure.



You only need one for a small ~1.2 cubic foot build. If you line with poly like you did (assume 10% larger box), and install ONE Earthquake PR with the included 255g weight, you got it. I would mount the PR next to the sub, personally. They are shallow, so it shouldn't hinder you anywhere you put it.


Oh, and remember when you said adding another 1000W or so... no that's not going to work, long-term. The speaker is 1000W capable. Past that, you're on borrowed time. Smoke 'em if you got 'em


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

gijoe said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > Im really really confused right now.
> ...


You didn't read. 

The black line was measured at a lower volume setting. About 3 db down. 

I turned the radio down when I measured it so that the graphs would stack better. I wasnt looking for increased amplitude, I was try to look at only changes in frequncy response so I lowered the volume of the stuffed box to make the graphs stack as close as possible.

Now that its stuffed I can turn the sub up louder than I could with the non stuffed box. Another 2 clicks on the radio. That's about 3 db. 


The radio can now be turned up 4 clicks past where the stuffed box measurement was taken.
That's 4 clicks past where the non stuffed box bottomed out. 

Something else I've noticed. The screen shot of the graphs seem a bit off compared to the full graph in REW. 

It total I gain 6db across the board and almost 10db at 30 hz. 

If you dont understand I can take another measurement with the radio set to the same volume the non stuffed box was taken at. I have the non stuffed boxes measurement still saved on the screen so an overlay would be easy.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

gijoe said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > Im really really confused right now.
> ...



Since no one seems to understand. Both of these were taken with the radio at level 26. That's the non stuffed boxes max in green. 

I get this much increase spl, PLUS I can now turn the radio up louder without the sub bottoming out.

This is apples to apples, no volume difference, just the difference the stuffing made.

Both measumants are 60hz crossover, no eq.

That 90hz node sucks ?


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Im really really confused right now.
> ...


You are not alone.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

drop1 said:


> You didn't read.
> 
> The black line was measured at a lower volume setting. About 3 db down.
> 
> ...


I did read, but you want to "prove" that something is 6dB louder, yet you post a graph that doesn't support that. Post the data that actually matches your claims.

Were both measurements done with the car on, or off? Depending on the amp, and how it's regulated, a slightly weakening battery could give you lower output. How much time was there between measurements? I'm just not buying that kind of increase in output from some poly, that doesn't add up.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

gijoe said:


> I did read, but you want to "prove" that something is 6dB louder, yet you post a graph that doesn't support that. Post the data that actually matches your claims.
> 
> Were both measurements done with the car on, or off? Depending on the amp, and how it's regulated, a slightly weakening battery could give you lower output. How much time was there between measurements? I'm just not buying that kind of increase in output from some poly, that doesn't add up.


^nice^

Drop,
Removing variables like ^suggested^ makes sense.
It may be the same, but extra chin-scratchers just add extra confusion.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Well my brahma 12 arrived. I've included a non eqed measurement.
> 
> I'm pretty disappointed in output. With its throw I was hoping it would be in the ballpark of a ported w6 12. That's just not the case. My last w612 absolutely pounded when I wanted it. That may not seem like a fair comparison to judge 1 12 sealed vs 1 ported but the brahma has a ton more xmax.
> It's nowhere near enough output for me sealed.
> ...


You should NOT be bottoming that sub on 1200 watts in a 0.66 cubic foot box, I would look elsewhere for that bottoming noise, like moving/vibrating trim panels and such, maybe even a box panel flexing and slapping something else.
As far as the perceived loudness, those subs are super clean, they don't "sound" loud but they are loud. You should also be running a crossover around 80-100 hz, depending on the slope. A higher crossover will give you some of that "loudness" and impact you're missing.


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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

Just a general question but if you want to throw more power at the sub and are thinking of jumping to the 15” even dont you think considering the Brahma X15” would be your best option? 

Only reason I ask is because my general understanding about the X version is the power handling being better over the OG and that is the main change. So why not go for that instead I think you’d be really happy then!


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> GEM592 said:
> 
> 
> > I tried to tell you, you tend to be a little basshead and will thus never be satisfied with Adire. What you were thinking, I do not know.
> ...


You are explaining yourself on a dying forum about banning me from a dying Facebook group that you are an admin on over a simple opinion. And you are saving time for yourself too. My hero. Why don’t you just eat the $500 bucks and get the **** lost rather than crying like a ***** all the time? You say you have better things to do yet here you are.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

GEM592 said:


> You are explaining yourself on a dying forum about banning me from a dying Facebook group that you are an admin on over a simple opinion. And you are saving time for yourself too. My hero. Why don’t you just eat the $500 bucks and get the **** lost rather than crying like a ***** all the time? You say you have better things to do yet here you are.



No offense against either of you, but helping / responding on DIYMA is an addiction just like any other. CAJ will serve nicely as a new home of course, but threads like this are like honey to bears. I try to help out in them as well.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> You should NOT be bottoming that sub on 1200 watts in a 0.66 cubic foot box, I would look elsewhere for that bottoming noise, like moving/vibrating trim panels and such, maybe even a box panel flexing and slapping something else.
> As far as the perceived loudness, those subs are super clean, they don't "sound" loud but they are loud. You should also be running a crossover around 80-100 hz, depending on the slope. A higher crossover will give you some of that "loudness" and impact you're missing.



I will agree with all this. Going by the specs, unless you are severely over-driving the coils of this Brahma, you are safely clear of any xmax episode. Its a thermal thing, not a travel thing. And that is a good thing! 


This sub (the 12) modeled marvelously. The 15, not as much for these purposes. Still a great driver. Models don't tell the whole story but they are painting a vivid picture for sure. And yes, I think you should try a PR. It may flop (pun), but if you install it right in a proper-sized box, you'll have the bass you've been looking for.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> Why don’t you just eat the $500 bucks


Because I actually got my 250 back  

Ps, we get over 20 join requests a day, and analytics show that post, commenting, and joining the group has all gone up over the past 2 years. We're having a blast without you. Sounds like you're upset though? Want me to let you back in?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Lanson said:


> ...
> 
> ... And yes, I think you should try a PR. It may flop (pun), but if you install it right in a proper-sized box, you'll have the bass you've been looking for.


You my friend are passive(radiator)-aggressive.
I like it!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Holmz said:


> You my friend are passive(radiator)-aggressive.
> I like it!



Bah it all sounds like a PR stunt to me.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > Well my brahma 12 arrived. I've included a non eqed measurement.
> ...


I hear what your saying but this sub makes a very loud, distinct, metallic click when it bottoms. Sound like "tink". Its bottoming.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

drop1 said:


> I hear what your saying but this sub makes a very loud, distinct, metallic click when it bottoms. Sound like "tink". Its bottoming.



How much actual power when that happens? The graphs show, assuming the box is SEALED and not leaking badly, that it can't happen unless you're exceeding the power rating by a lot.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Lanson said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I hear what your saying but this sub makes a very loud, distinct, metallic click when it bottoms. Sound like "tink". Its bottoming.
> ...


I'm running a jl 1200/1 with the sub wired to 4 ohm. I dont know how I could exceed it the way you are talking about and my box is SEALED. 

It even has focal liner on the sub mating surface to insure a great seal. It's so tight to the box that it requires a pry bar to get the sub off the focal liner. 

I've checked it for leaks. Definilty no leaks. I used excessive amounts of wood glue while assembling then shot the box together with 16 guage nail. After assembly I filled all corners inside and out with multiple layers of glue. Shes as air tight as it gets.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

drop1 said:


> I'm running a jl 1200/1 with the sub wired to 4 ohm. I dont know how I could exceed it the way you are talking about and my box is SEALED.
> 
> It even has focal liner on the sub mating surface to insure a great seal. It's so tight to the box that it requires a pry bar to get the sub off the focal liner.
> 
> I've checked it for leaks. Definilty no leaks. I used excessive amounts of wood glue while assembling then shot the box together with 16 guage nail. After assembly I filled all corners inside and out with multiple layers of glue. Shes as air tight as it gets.



Then the noise isn't from bottoming out, unless the sub is not really capable of the xmax stated for another reason. And I think you'd only be able to tell that in a Klippel measurement. 



The leads are stitched, so its probably not tinsel slap.


Bottom line, if you hear something, its obviously coming from somewhere, but the model doesn't show it coming from the sub under met circumstances we know of.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

This is the apples to apples measurement. 

Truck on, radio volume at 26. Dsp level at -9 crossovers at 60hz, fixed mic position at the headrest, all eq defeated, bass knob disconnected from the amp, sub firing up.

The boxes internal dimensions are 12x12x8". This does not account for sub displacement.


I agree it looks like unusually large gains, that's why I posted it but it sounds just like what the graph shows. It sounds like I've added a second sub and its great. It went from being meh to almost what I'm looking for with nothing but adding poly. It's also even cleaner sounding. I did stuff the **** out the box though. I cleared a small path for the magnet hole to vent but the rest of the box is FULL. I had to compress the sub into the box a bit. 

All I can do is post the measurements. What you believe is up to you. I don't really care, it's just a test box to me and will thrown away when I build the final box.


----------



## -Kyle- (Feb 5, 2009)

Lanson said:


> I modeled the Brahma D2 (edit: the 15" version) sealed and ported, and the first thing I want to point out is you will be fighting for space. Sealed, a Qtc .8 box is still 2 cubic feet plus. Ported this sub begs to be stuffed in a house in a big-ass box, tuned LOW. In a vehicle, you're going to be 4.5 to 5 cubic feet, tuned like 26hz or so. Its got a smooth lift at 35hz or so, but I prefer flat ported low-tuned setups that tune that port BELOW cabin gain, which gives you that extension. Anyway, its 120dB at 35 hz, about 119 at 40hz before cabin gain.
> 
> 
> I could probably just teach you how to use WinISD so you could run these things yourself. Same with when you asked for info on what cubic feet something is. That's just math, easy math at that. Let's just teach you how to use something like Sketchup or whatever so you're comfy with making this stuff. It can be fun too.
> ...


If the 15" is combined with a couple of the PRs (or multiple 10" PRs) can you end up with good response from a really small box?


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

-Kyle- said:


> If the 15" is combined with a couple of the PRs (or multiple 10" PRs) can you end up with good response from a really small box?



Nope. Different basic specs. It wants a much bigger box.


I've only used one 15" sub in a smallish box with any success. The Image Dynamics ID15.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I was looking at the pr option but if it has to run vertically I cannot use one ?. 

So ported it is. I cam extend the box all the way across the truck under the seats. That will give me another .66 of usuable air. 


The taller angled top of the box will become that section of seating. It will cost me less than $200 to have my seat cushion and cloth repurposed as a cover and will look completely stock from the top. Everything will be nicely tucked under the rear seats and I'll get my 130db ?


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Lanson said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm running a jl 1200/1 with the sub wired to 4 ohm. I dont know how I could exceed it the way you are talking about and my box is SEALED.
> ...


Brother, its bottoming. It's not tinsel rattle. The frogs did that. The it's a hard metalic "tink" that sounds like your hitting a metal pole with a hammer and its LOUD. 
It only happens on certain kick drums. Reducing the volume 3 db makes it stop. 

I agree it shouldn't be bottoming on that power.

This leads me to believe the amp is giving it's all and possibly going into clipping. I don't know how else it could happen unless the woofer is faulty or they lied about the xmax. 

I'm leaning towards the amp clipping through it sure doesnt sound like it .

If the the amp is clipping and sending uncontrolled power to the sub, that's GREAT news to me. 
It means the sub can take more clean power and I'll get more clean spl out of it! Im putting 3000w to it when my amp gets here regardless so we will find out for sure soon enough. 

Here's some video of the brahma doing its thing.

https://youtu.be/Hw_p-U9YNvM


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

If it were clipping, that would make sense. You could be producing TWICE the power (which would bottom) at clipping. It would also smoke the sub if done to an extreme. If it is definitely bottoming, taking the volume down one notch should make it go away. And if it does, then yep you've found the absolute limit. Not something you want to do often. A voice coil can smack something and deform. XBL motors, due to their unique winding technique, will be more prone to do this because they have so much darn magnetic strength even at the end of the stroke. The rules of 70% BL don't necessarily apply equally to an XBL motor. That's one reason they make great tweeters. The louder you play them (till failure), the better they sound!


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

drop1 said:


> I was looking at the pr option but if it has to run vertically I cannot use one ?.
> 
> So ported it is. I cam extend the box all the way across the truck under the seats. That will give me another .66 of usuable air.
> 
> ...


How do you expect to fit 2 ports plus a driver in that little bump up space? what size ports are you using?


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Brother, its bottoming. It's not tinsel rattle. The frogs did that. The it's a hard metalic "tink" that sounds like your hitting a metal pole with a hammer and its LOUD.
> It only happens on certain kick drums. Reducing the volume 3 db makes it stop.
> 
> I agree it shouldn't be bottoming on that power.
> ...


It looks like the box is airtight, I didn't see any of that ported box looking "pumping". I'd bet you're clipping the amp. Does that amp do 1200 watts into 4 ohms?
I see it does, I still think you're clipping.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Brother, its bottoming. It's not tinsel rattle. The frogs did that. The it's a hard metalic "tink" that sounds like your hitting a metal pole with a hammer and its LOUD.
> It only happens on certain kick drums. Reducing the volume 3 db makes it stop.
> 
> I agree it shouldn't be bottoming on that power.
> ...


This is what your excursion should look like in that box.


----------



## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

I've never heard a sub make a metallic tink when bottoming out. It sounds more like a "THUD" like knocking on a hollow door 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ToNasty said:


> I've never heard a sub make a metallic tink when bottoming out. It sounds more like a "THUD" like knocking on a hollow door
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I've heard that some of these XBl^2 subs make that sound when bottoming, namely the earlier version of the CSS Audio SDX12's that I'm using.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> How do you expect to fit 2 ports plus a driver in that little bump up space? what size ports are you using?


External wòuld work.

But it would start to look like Thor's Molinjar.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

miniSQ said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I was looking at the pr option but if it has to run vertically I cannot use one ?.
> ...


With the sub downfiring I have 19 inches of available port length. 

I'm not sure what size. I'm thing 3" or 4". Whatever I can fit. I'm also considering running 3 ports to keep port velocity down a bit. 

Round poets are new to me. I've always built slot ports but I dont have the room for that in this build. I will flare the ports as much as possible on the outside and round off the internal port edges.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Lanson said:


> If it were clipping, that would make sense. You could be producing TWICE the power (which would bottom) at clipping. It would also smoke the sub if done to an extreme. If it is definitely bottoming, taking the volume down one notch should make it go away. And if it does, then yep you've found the absolute limit. Not something you want to do often. A voice coil can smack something and deform. XBL motors, due to their unique winding technique, will be more prone to do this because they have so much darn magnetic strength even at the end of the stroke. The rules of 70% BL don't necessarily apply equally to an XBL motor. That's one reason they make great tweeters. The louder you play them (till failure), the better they sound!


I know the amp is giving it's all. 

I feel like it wants more power. 
I talked to david at mmats. I was considering the 3000.1 and the 4000.1.

I'm pretty sure at this point I'm going with the 4000.1. That's 4000w at 1 ohm but I intend to try it at 4 ohm first. He said I should be able to get ablut 1800w at 4 ohm from that amp. I'm not really a fan of running drivers at 1 ohm. 

If the 1800w at 4 ohm isnt enough well, ill.have 4000w to throw at it.

I have a feeling I'm going to need a new alternator.

Mmats 6150 (1400w potential)
Mmats 4250 (1600w potential)
Mmats 4000.1 (4000w potential)

That's a lot of juice for a predominantly sq based system. 
Exciting times we live in as far at wattage to dollar ratio.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I cant wait to get some more power on it. I've picked up the wood for a test box but I'm not sure how to build it.

Anyone of you guys can recommend airspace and port length for 2 4 inch ports?

Just something close so I can get an idea of what I'm gonna get out of the final install.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

drop1 said:


> With the sub downfiring I have 19 inches of available port length.
> 
> I'm not sure what size. I'm thing 3" or 4". Whatever I can fit. I'm also considering running 3 ports to keep port velocity down a bit.
> 
> Round poets are new to me. I've always built slot ports but I dont have the room for that in this build. I will flare the ports as much as possible on the outside and round off the internal port edges.


oh gotcha, i looked at the sketch and saw downfiring and it looked like the sub was mounted on the bottom and downfiring, putting the magnet inside the box.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

miniSQ said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > With the sub downfiring I have 19 inches of available port length.
> ...


The magnet will be inside the box. I'm going to have to get creative. I like a can add a few inches to the front to back depth. 

I'll figure it out. I want a minimum of 2 4 inch ports or 3 3 inch ports to keep the port noise down as much as possible. 

I could port it on the opposite side of the truck but I think that's a bad idea. I'm trying to keep the sub as close to the passenger door as I can and fire the ports off the passenger door as well. 

I may need to build odd shaped ports to get them to fit instead of just using pipe. 

Im going to build the box as large as possible in the space I have then figure out where to port it. 


I may have to resort to triangle ports in the top corners.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I cant seem to find a definitive answer. 

When designing a ported enclosure using round ports, do I need to subtract the port volume from the total box volume?


----------



## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

drop1 said:


> I cant seem to find a definitive answer.
> 
> When designing a ported enclosure using round ports, do I need to subtract the port volume from the total box volume?


If the port is internal. You have to add that as a displacement


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> I know the amp is giving it's all.
> ..
> I feel like it wants more power.
> ...
> ...


There are a lot more feelings than knowings.
This may get to be an expensive hobby.




drop1 said:


> I cant seem to find a definitive answer.
> 
> When designing a ported enclosure using round ports, do I need to subtract the port volume from the total box volume?


Yeah... hence the Thor's hammer post.
(You could put the port external.)

As Kali and Brahma were mentioned earlier, it seemed appropriate to bring in Thor.


----------



## whippoorwill (Feb 19, 2017)

I might have missed it earlier in the thread, but have you considered mounting the amps _behind_ the seats and/or raising the seats to allow for a bigger box? The LMI Welding kits seem to be fairly popular with the F150 guys.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Holmz said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I know the amp is giving it's all.
> ...


I tend not to speak in absolutes unless I'm 100 percent sure of what I'm talking about.

I'm the same way in real life. If I say something absolute, 99 percent of the time, you can take that to the bank.

As far as being expensive, I dont care in the slightest. As long as I'm having fun and things are progressing, all us well.

Hell im thinking about ditching the frogs and going all utopia m upfront.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

whippoorwill said:


> I might have missed it earlier in the thread, but have you considered mounting the amps _behind_ the seats and/or raising the seats to allow for a bigger box? The LMI Welding kits seem to be fairly popular with the F150 guys.


Amps are currently behind the seats. 

Im wanting to get them under the seats for display purposes. 

If it doesnt work I'll have to keep them behind the seats but that's a last resort. If I do that I'm definently adding another 12. 2 sealed would be fantastic!


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> I tend not to speak in absolutes unless I'm 100 percent sure of what I'm talking about.
> 
> I'm the same way in real life. If I say something absolute, 99 percent of the time, you can take that to the bank.
> 
> ...


Well in terms of absolutes, it is often better to see if the alternator can keep up before replacing it. And if you run ported it takes less power than sealed, so it is not a certainty that it needs swapping out.

I think that a 3 or 4" port is going to be too small.
That is almost an absolute with the 3".

And in terms of time... it can be expensive.

The volume is pretty minimal for ported and the port sucks up volume when it is inside the box. Personally I would be absolutely focusing on the box and having a spend up on that first.
It will either be sealed and enough amp to shove the subwoofer around, or ported and less power.
Then sometimes subs for ported are not ideal for sealed and visa versa, so it seems like there are a lot of trade offs to make.

I could picture a TIG welded alloy box with stiffeners being worth the investment as you could get another liter or two compared to thick MDF.

There is enough chin scratching just on the subwoofer to keep one busy for a while,


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Holmz said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I tend not to speak in absolutes unless I'm 100 percent sure of what I'm talking about.
> ...


Yes, it is very expensive over time. 
Over the last 25 years in sure I've spent well over $100,000 on car sound. 


I built a small ported test box.

Its 1.3 cft tuned to 31hz and I took the 2 pounds of poly I had in the sealed enclosure and put that in the box. 

It POUNDS when I want it to. It isnt as tight up top as my 10s were but its definitely louder down low.

Here's a measurement comparing the new ported enclosure vs the original sealed.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

drop1 said:


> Yes, it is very expensive over time.
> Over the last 25 years in sure I've spent well over $100,000 on car sound.


Ok....That is just stupid.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

drop1 said:


> Holmz said:
> 
> 
> > drop1 said:
> ...


Its 100 times better but I still wish it were about 6 db more. I'm sure I can make up some of that with the amp im getting. I really feel like this sub wants something in the 2000 to 3000w area.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Niebur3 said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it is very expensive over time.
> ...


It's all relative brother. What seems extreme to one person is nothing to someone else. 

I dont call 100k nothing by any means but spent over the course of 25 years it's pretty insignificant to me.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

drop1 said:


> It's all relative brother. What seems extreme to one person is nothing to someone else.
> 
> I dont call 100k nothing by any means but spent over the course of 25 years it's pretty insignificant to me.


Not trying to be mean, it just seems as you are searching to fix issues just by changing gear. I guess more power to you if you have the funds.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Niebur3 said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > It's all relative brother. What seems extreme to one person is nothing to someone else.
> ...


I'd say 80 percent of that was spent pre dsp days. 

My last 2 systems had far fewer versions.

Generally I keep a system for 2 to 3 years. By then I get bored. 

These days due to knowledge and dsp it's a lot easier to change things up. 

For instance this sub. I'm trying test boxes instead of just buying new subs. 

The dsp has kept my front stage in my truck longer than any front stage has lasted me before. Though I've had it for a few years and am really wondering about the new utopias.

I did buy some gb25s. Hoping that keeps me happy for a while and diverts my attention from the focals.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> ...
> Hell im thinking about ditching the frogs and going all utopia m upfront.


Is that step up? Or just sideways?

Horns may be worth a thought?
One can certainly get more SPL from them.
And it seems like a bigger jump from the frogs.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Holmz said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Has nothing to do with spl.

I much preferred my old utopias to the gb series so if the new utopias are better than the old, it would likely me a step up for me. For others, who knows.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I should have just gotta w7 12. This thing is nowhere near the w7's output capability on the same power. I honestly think a w7 10 would put out more. I mean it will get relatively loud but not without all kinds of mechanical noise. 
My old w7 12 could make my rear view do circles. This thing cant even blur the view in the mirror. 
I can understand not sounding loud but the pressure just isnt there.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

drop1 said:


> I should have just gotta w7 12. This thing is nowhere near the w7's output capability on the same power. I honestly think a w7 10 would put out more. I mean it will get relatively loud but not without all kinds of mechanical noise.
> My old w7 12 could make my rear view do circles. This thing cant even blur the view in the mirror.
> I can understand not sounding loud but the pressure just isnt there.



Different animal. A W7 requires MUCH more space than the Brahma (12" for 12".) 



I don't know more than that, except to a point, we're just talking about pressurizing a cabin here. Its all simple math/physics and it can be worked out.


----------



## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

drop1 said:


> I should have just gotta w7 12. This thing is nowhere near the w7's output capability on the same power. I honestly think a w7 10 would put out more. I mean it will get relatively loud but not without all kinds of mechanical noise.
> My old w7 12 could make my rear view do circles. This thing cant even blur the view in the mirror.
> I can understand not sounding loud but the pressure just isnt there.


It should shake your mirrors more. I've used to many brahmas I cant even count. But like stated it's a differant animal. After all this I can tell you just want loud. Grab yourself a sundown x12 and call it a day. I don't think you're ready for the brahma 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

ToNasty said:


> It should shake your mirrors more. I've used to many brahmas I cant even count. But like stated it's a differant animal. After all this I can tell you just want loud. Grab yourself a sundown x12 and call it a day. I don't think you're ready for the brahma
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Ive said this before. Go grab a sundown SA or X, pour a ton of power and shake the mess out of the truck. He has the wrong driver for the intended application. I also still wonder about the install. Earlier he mentioned that the brhama doesnt even move the mirrors. There is a local truck with 6.5 subs under the rear seat and stuff moves around like crap. I was also in a shop demo truck with GBs in the front doors but JL slims under the seat. Chevy truck not a Ford, but very close to what OP is trying. It was loud as hell and crisp. This was on slims and a very good tune. I have no idea what that truck would meter at and its not set up for that. It is silly loud for a daily. I mention all this boils down to correct driver for application and tune.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Drop1, here's what you need. I had one in my other, Jeep Sundown Zv5 with 2k+ watts...


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> Drop1, here's what you need. I had one in my other, Jeep Sundown Zv5 with 2k+ watts...


Exactly. Right now I have 2 sundown night shade 15s on 3 sundown 3500s at .5 ohm a peice  that's what op needs to shake his winders. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ToNasty said:


> Exactly. Right now I have 2 sundown night shade 15s on 3 sundown 3500s at .5 ohm a peice  that's what op needs to shake his winders.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


That thing could take the hard top off my Jeep, without me trying to take it off... It was violent bass.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> That thing could take the hard top off my Jeep, without me trying to take it off... It was violent bass.


Roof has concrete and 1 layers of 19mm birch. It was very fun but it's been under a tarp in the backyard for 2 years now 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> I should have just gotta w7 12. This thing is nowhere near the w7's output capability on the same power. I honestly think a w7 10 would put out more. I mean it will get relatively loud but not without all kinds of mechanical noise.
> My old w7 12 could make my rear view do circles. This thing cant even blur the view in the mirror.
> I can understand not sounding loud but the pressure just isnt there.


What is the dB(C) reading again?
How loud are we talking about?


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

An update on the mechanical noise.

Adire seems to think it may be the coil tapping the pole under high excursion and has offered replacement. 

If this is indeed the case then that would explain why I'm not able to get the ouput I expected.

Also, props to adire for being willing to replace it so easily. 
No nonsense. No hassle. Just a single email with a possible explanation and offer to replace.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

drop1 said:


> An update on the mechanical noise.
> 
> Adire seems to think it may be the coil tapping the pole under high excursion and has offered replacement.
> 
> ...


Andrew is a good guy


----------



## terryna (Mar 15, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> I tried to tell you, you tend to be a little basshead and will thus never be satisfied with Adire. What you were thinking, I do not know.
> 
> And I don't like that company, its history, its product, etc, anyhow and have been banned off several groups on Facebook just for voicing that opinion. They like to do this subversive advertising thing where they take over a forum or facebook group and advertise essentially for free. Worse than SI all day, and that is saying something.


Nice


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## chewpeg (Aug 27, 2019)

drop1 said:


> An update on the mechanical noise.
> 
> Adire seems to think it may be the coil tapping the pole under high excursion and has offered replacement.
> 
> ...




I just read this whole thread!!! I NEED an update!! How did the replacement work out? What’s happening with the box?? So many questions. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

chewpeg said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > An update on the mechanical noise.
> ...


I havent had the time to ship the sub back yet. I'm pulling it tonight to send back. It took almost 2 weeks to get the sub originally so it may be 3 weeks before I have a real update.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> An update on the mechanical noise.
> 
> Adire seems to think it may be the coil tapping the pole under high excursion and has offered replacement.
> 
> ...


What outpût levels were you expectiñg?.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Holmz said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > An update on the mechanical noise.
> ...


At minimum w6 12 levels with hopes for w7 output levels. I cant get anywhere near either without that mechanical noise.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> At minimum w6 12 levels with hopes for w7 output levels. I cant get anywhere near either without that mechanical noise.


What is ute in dB(C)?
How do we know those levels are?.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

drop1 said:


> At minimum w6 12 levels with hopes for w7 output levels. I cant get anywhere near either without that mechanical noise.


I tried to tell you that fly-by-night bought-and-sold-a-dozen-times company is crap, they make crap stuff with outdated tech that they try to sell as the next best thing. Cut your losses and move on, you aren't going to be satisfied and they will only try to transfer the blame to you.


----------



## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

GEM592 said:


> I tried to tell you that fly-by-night bought-and-sold-a-dozen-times company is crap, they make crap stuff with outdated tech that they try to sell as the next best thing. Cut your losses and move on, you aren't going to be satisfied and they will only try to transfer the blame to you.


I suppose 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

GEM592 said:


> I tried to tell you that fly-by-night bought-and-sold-a-dozen-times company is crap, they make crap stuff with outdated tech that they try to sell as the next best thing. Cut your losses and move on, you aren't going to be satisfied and they will only try to transfer the blame to you.


What sub would you recommend for him then?


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Damn, that's a sub


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

GEM592 said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > At minimum w6 12 levels with hopes for w7 output levels. I cant get anywhere near either without that mechanical noise.
> ...


I hear what you're saying but so far customer service has been stellar.


----------



## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

drop1 said:


> I hear what you're saying


Well that's the thing. It costs less for a reason. Note I'm not saying go with this brand or that brand, just anything else.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> Well that's the thing. It costs less for a reason. Note I'm not saying go with this brand or that brand, just anything else.


Every time I see Adire brought up, I also see you come in bashing. I've got no dog in this fight, but I have met Andrew and Brandon and talked with them on several occasions in person. I am not a customer of theirs. I'm curious to know what it is about them, the product, or their actions as a company that has given you such a negative opinion. If it is an interaction that took place on a public forum (DIYMA, CAJ, FB, etc.), I would love to see a link to read through for myself.


----------



## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Fact is, Gem just likes to stir the pot and simply be negative about everything. 

The reality is that drop1 got a sub that was not the best for his application, combined with the fact that the sub possibly has a material/build defect and is going to be replaced by the company. No harm no foul. Tried something that didn’t work. I have done it as well. As a matter of fact, EVERY sub company has some subs and speakers that are defective but that doesn’t mean they are a crap company. 
Drop1 will find the best sub for his application and be happy. Fortunately, today, with the prices of car audio it’s much cheaper and easier to swallow an ooops purchase than years ago.


----------



## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

GEM592 said:


> I tried to tell you that fly-by-night bought-and-sold-a-dozen-times company is crap, they make crap stuff with outdated tech that they try to sell as the next best thing. Cut your losses and move on, you aren't going to be satisfied and they will only try to transfer the blame to you.


As a person looking to possible swap subs, I have been looking at their offerings. Is there a specific failure or performance issue you can point me to? The reviews i have looked at were positive and much different that yours, but it seems like you may have had a less than favorable experience. Care to expand?


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

In all fairness to adire, I had a jl w6 12 v3 in an HO box do this same thing. 

I didnt know what it was at the time and replacing the sub corrected the issue.

If the brahma replacement doesnt have the same issue, it will be an excellent sub that I would not hesitate to recommend.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> In all fairness to adire, I had a jl w6 12 v3 in an HO box do this same thing.
> 
> I didnt know what it was at the time and replacing the sub corrected the issue.
> 
> If the brahma replacement doesnt have the same issue, it will be an excellent sub that I would not hesitate to recommend.


Let's see what the new one does in 2-1/2 weeks?
Then recommend it or not?


----------



## fackamato (Mar 18, 2013)

You would have known all of this, and be able to make the proper decisions on how to test and what to build, if you modeled the previous and current subs and their enclosures in basta!, BassBox Pro or WinISD.

What on earth made you think that a sealed system would be louder than a ported system for the same cone size? Xmax only matters way down low.

Simulate with data, then build. No guesswork.


----------



## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

Quality control isn’t cheap. Good to see that they extend customer service as a close approximate. They replaced my brahma with no issue when the vc became unwound back during their original run. 

The question remains, is this a malfunction or just a function? Again the xbl linear response sounds cleaner and different from traditional topologies. Its really an sq sub. Some of the distortion we’ve come to accept as part of the bass/low end is going to be absent. And 600-800w was plenty to get it moving to xmax. Not sure if that has changed. So I look forward to hearing what happens with the replacement and if it is any different.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> In all fairness to adire, I had a jl w6 12 v3 in an HO box do this same thing.
> 
> I didnt know what it was at the time and replacing the sub corrected the issue.
> 
> If the brahma replacement doesnt have the same issue, it will be an excellent sub that I would not hesitate to recommend.


Any update?


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

What happened to drop1? I was hoping for a update


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

A small update. I got busy and just shipped the sub back this morning. Let's just say I'm less than thrilled about paying $100 for return shipping.
At sq levels the sub didnt make any funky sounds. I've grown quite fond of it. Not being able to pump it up grew quite old though. 

If I could change anything about the sub I would like a bit more of a sharper attack profile. That the one thing I miss about my audiofrog gb 10s they have a crisp attack. 
The brahma doesnt "stick" as sharply.

Not a huge deal. When blended it sounds fine. Just wish it had a bit more punch on the initial attack. It does low bass wonderfully. 

If the new one is not defective I plan on tripling the aviable power. Right now the jl hd 1200/1 gets it done for sure but I want to put around 3kw on it.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> A small update. I got busy and just shipped the sub back this morning. Let's just say I'm less than thrilled about paying $100 for return shipping.
> At sq levels the sub didnt make any funky sounds. I've grown quite fond of it. Not being able to pump it up grew quite old though.
> 
> If I could change anything about the sub I would like a bit more of a sharper attack profile. That the one thing I miss about my audiofrog gb 10s they have a crisp attack.
> ...


If not the sub, then what is defective?


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

drop1 said:


> It's all relative brother. What seems extreme to one person is nothing to someone else.
> 
> I dont call 100k nothing by any means but spent over the course of 25 years it's pretty insignificant to me.


thats 3-400 a month , every month for 25 years. I suppose people spend that much on worse things, but it does seem like a lot to me.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> A small update. I got busy and just shipped the sub back this morning. Let's just say I'm less than thrilled about paying $100 for return shipping.
> At sq levels the sub didnt make any funky sounds. I've grown quite fond of it. Not being able to pump it up grew quite old though.
> 
> If I could change anything about the sub I would like a bit more of a sharper attack profile. That the one thing I miss about my audiofrog gb 10s they have a crisp attack.
> ...


1800-2000 watts, carefully!


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

drop1 said:


> If the new one is not defective I plan on tripling the aviable power. Right now the jl hd 1200/1 gets it done for sure but I want to put around 3kw on it.


 If its not defective, it will be soon with 3k.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

miniSQ said:


> If its not defective, it will be soon with 3k.


Burnt coils arent defective coils 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Lol you guy never stop. 

How many times do we have to go through this ?

Sure I'm putting a 3k amp on the brahma and no I wont hurt it. You guys act I'm trying to burp the damn thing. 

The sub will never see a full 3k and yall know that. Just like my gb 60s never see the full 500w available to each one and my gb10 tweeters never see the full 250w available to each of those.

This place and its negative bs trolling. Yall can keep it.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

serious question, if you are well aware that you are only using like 10% of what your amps are capable of, why waste your money? why not get good, lower powered amps?


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> serious question, if you are well aware that you are only using like 10% of what your amps are capable of, why waste your money? why not get good, lower powered amps?


Beat me to it. I mean how the hell else was I able to run a single 2 zv3 18s on 2 ns1 amplifiers years ago at .5 ohm. Impedance rise. No need to run large amounts of power.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Lol you guy never stop.
> 
> How many times do we have to go through this ?
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, you said "I want to put about 3 kw on it", that's very different than "I want to put a 3 kw amp on it". I run 3 kw amps on my subs, but at a maximum 1800 watts.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Lol you guy never stop.
> 
> How many times do we have to go through this ?
> 
> ...


Well communication is generally a between two things, although there is one way communication.

If many people are hearing the same thing, then maybe it is "how you said it" that affects how they heard it?




drop1 said:


> A small update...
> 
> If I could change anything about the sub I would like a bit more of a *sharper attack profile*. That the one thing I miss about my audiofrog gb 10s they have a crisp attack.
> The brahma doesnt "stick" as sharply.
> ...


When one talks about attack profile, and going from 1200w to 3000w it appears like 1200w may not be enough?
Or that the extra amperes (or voltage?) of the 3000w amp will speed up the attack profile?

Or if the 1200w is all you are using, why put a 3000w in?

Or you fell into a troll nest?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ckirocz28 said:


> For what it's worth, you said "I want to put about 3 kw on it", that's very different than "I want to put a 3 kw amp on it". I run 3 kw amps on my subs, but at a maximum 1800 watts.


plus he has a history of feeling like he needs to over amplify everything he touches. Lesding to melted crossovers, noise in his GB60's and GB10's. So no we are not trolling him, just trying to bang some sense into him.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> plus he has a history of feeling like he needs to over amplify everything he touches. Lesding to melted crossovers, noise in his GB60's and GB10's. So no we are not trolling him, just trying to bang some sense into him.


Well communication is a two way street, and is the the recipient is deaf, or otherwise refuses to listen, then we can have a problem getting through.


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## thisgsx (Mar 16, 2006)

Get a used 13w7, port it and call it a day. I've used many subs throughout the years and I always go back to it. There's just something about it that other subs just can't do.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

I’m running a pair of Brahma 12s ported in an SQ install. They do everything well. Blend with front stage extremely well. Install was done by @bradknob. They’re very impressive drivers.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

The replacement driver came in a few days ago. Functioning flawlessly. No voice coil tap when being used aggressively. 
I loved the way the original sub sounded. It just tapped out early due to a defect. Now I can get ignorant and its just clean powerful bass. 
This thing can take every drop of a jl 1200/1 and never even flinch. I love it. I would like to compare it to a w7 though. May grab one just for the sake of knowing.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

miniSQ said:


> plus he has a history of feeling like he needs to over amplify everything he touches. Lesding to melted crossovers, noise in his GB60's and GB10's. So no we are not trolling him, just trying to bang some sense into him.


I dont fell like I " need " to do anything. I do it because I CHOOSE to. Big difference.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Fee fi fo fum, I smell a burnt voice coil.

Did you know those tweeters only need about 15 watts to keep up with an actual 3k sub stage?


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

JCsAudio said:


> Fee fi fo fum, I smell a burnt voice coil.
> 
> Did you know those tweeters only need about 15 watts to keep up with an actual 3k sub stage?


Yes I know but 250 is what I have on the channels available.

And no, I'm not gonna hurt my speakers.

As much as I dig the brahma, On 1200 w its BARELY enough to keep up with mybfront stage. It's fine for modern music but there is no extra. I cant get enough out of it to keep up with older rock. My sub has to stay maxed on 99 percent of music to keep up with the front.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I was just making light of the situation drop1 for the humor in it. Plenty of people on here run amplifiers capable of much more power than needed for the load including me.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Another update.

I picked up a 2.1 ft3 high output box tuned to 30hz.

I had it in a bit over a 1 ft3 box tuned to 30.

Holy ****ing hell did it make a difference. Not only in output but sq as well.

I canr keep this big ole box in my truck. Looking for bed covers now so I can do a blow through . This has the added benefit of letting me do a pretty amp rack under the rear seats. 

Now I'm tracking rattles. It's so damned clean that even the tiniest rattle can be heard.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

This is next .


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

drop1 said:


> Another update.
> 
> I picked up a 2.1 ft3 high output box tuned to 30hz.
> 
> ...


And the discovery on how important the box is to a subwoofer is found. Glad you are happy man.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

JCsAudio said:


> And the discovery on how important the box is to a subwoofer is found. Glad you are happy man.


Lol I've been building boxes for 20 years. I always build multiple test boxes for every sub I get. Never have I heard this much if a difference. Not once expect going sealed to ported. I went ported to ported with same tuning and it sounds like I went sealed to ported .


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Well after building and modeling so many myself I find it hard to believe that any 12 would be happy in just 1 cu ft ported and I would imagine the port would have to be a mile long to be tuned to 30 Hz with that small of a box. You know what they say, there is no replacement for displacement.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

JCsAudio said:


> Well after building and modeling so many myself I find it hard to believe that any 12 would be happy in just 1 cu ft ported and I would imagine the port would have to be a mile long to be tuned to 30 Hz with that small of a box. You know what they say, there is no replacement for displacement.


They said it would work and it did but the larger box is way more efficient (of course) but also almost flat in response from 30 to 60hz. The old box had a large 40hz peak.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

So what is it putting out now with the better box?


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Holmz said:


> So what is it putting out now with the better box?


I have no accurate way to measure db. 
I can guess pretty well up to about 120. Beyond that my guessing gets to be unreliable. 

What I do notice is my rear view mirror now shakes in circles where it did not before. Its gutted and filled with non hardening modeling clay.

My tailgate now shakes like a hatchback. It did not make a sound before. It's an open bed with no cover and subs in the truck.

I fine tuned to sub/midbass transition last night. I was able to have enough sub after eq where before I could barely get enough for the standard AF tune I now have a good 6db extra. Its tighter, punchy and super authoritative down low. I am extremely pleased though thse tiny rattles in the dash are driving me nuts. Gonna have to pull it apart. 

My best guess is 130db plus depending on the track. I'll have it metered next show near me.

My neighbor down the street who I sold my audiofrog gb 10 subs to called me last night to tell me I was rattling his windows even though I'm tuned for sq with a bit of a rise starting at 400hz to 60hz. He has never been able to hear me from inside his home before. 

I really want to get it metered!


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Its official. I [email protected]#CKING LOVE THIS SUB!!!.

I only wish I could fit 2. 

Is anyone running the brahma x? Does it have the potential to get louder on the same 1200w? I know it has more throw. I'm planning on getting a different amp anyway to match my other Mmats. Anyone have a guess to about how much more output a brahma x would have over the standard brahma if power were no option? Another 6 db would be superb but damn this thing sounds good. Super transparent and TIGHT! Powerful is an understatement. Once fully integrated with the midbass the amount of chest thump is insane. Reminiscent of standing in front of the towers at raves. So bad ass.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I am experiencing the same thing your describing with a 12 I have. Went from sealed to ported and well you know what I’m talking about. I’ve never been a ported box guy but I am now in this install. It’s crazy. I will agree.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Its official. I [email protected]#CKING LOVE THIS SUB!!!.
> 
> I only wish I could fit 2.
> 
> Is anyone running the brahma x? Does it have the potential to get louder on the same 1200w? I know it has more throw. I'm planning on getting a different amp anyway to match my other Mmats. Anyone have a guess to about how much more output a brahma x would have over the standard brahma if power were no option? Another 6 db would be superb but damn this thing sounds good. Super transparent and TIGHT! Powerful is an understatement. Once fully integrated with the midbass the amount of chest thump is insane. Reminiscent of standing in front of the towers at raves. So bad ass.


I don't think you'd get much more from a Brahma X, it's only got 4 mm more Xmax, and, judging by the Bl specs on all of the XBl^2 Adire subs, the motor strength probably won't be much better. Those subs are designed for sealed boxes, hence the large Xmax, I'm guessing you'd need more motor strength for an improvement for a ported box.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

I should clarify, the XBl^2 motors are more suited to sealed boxes, not necessarily designed for them.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Those A pillars are superb


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