# SQ Horns/Compression drivers for a boat? A slightly different project...



## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

Hey guys… long time listener, first time caller.
I have a little bit of a different setup that I want to pick your brains on. SQ horns/compression drivers for a boat, specifically on a wakeboard tower, in a… let’s call it “two way front stage” setup. I’m a DIY guy to the core, but after researching this for over a year, I’m finally at a point where I think I could use some advice. 

HLCD’s rule the boating world when it comes to tower speakers, and the king of this arena is WetSounds. However the WetSounds utilize a short, omni directional waveguide, and while they can be tuned to sound decent, there are far far better options in this world. They lack delicate highs, tend to be “glaring” and fatiguing, and overall are built for the masses, and not for the audiophile. (Especially considering two pair of Rev10’s will run you about $2500.) If this were a car and I wanted horns, I’d suck it up and swipe my credit card with Eric and call it a day. But it’s a boat. And they’re going on a wakeboard tower. Hence my dilemma, and why I’m finally asking for a little guidance.

First, my current setup.
Tower: 4 - Rockford pm2652’s (6.5” with bridge mounted tweet). Powered by a PPI 900.4
Inboats: Same. 4 - RF 6.5’s, powered by a PPI 900.4
Sub: Single Sundown X12, slot port tuned to 34hz, side firing under the helm (almost has a similar effect of a 6th order). Powered by Orion XTR2500.1 (No, it’s not an SQ sub, yes it’s overkill, no I don’t care. Just accept it and move past this)
Processor: Dayton DSP-408
Source signal: Audioengine B1 bluetooth receiver, directly to inputs 1/2 on the DSP. No head unit.
Tuning: UMIK-1 mic and REW to start, finish by ear.

I have been in the car audio world since the early 90’s, so I’m aware that there is a lot of give and take. Having said that, my next move is to something that’s louder BUT - absolutely cannot be the traditional semi-distorted, high school football stadium PA system, type horn setup that most of these boats have. I spent a lot of time tuning this last setup with surprising success and I don’t want to take a step backwards in that area.

I’ve bounced between SSA Evil 6.5’s, FaitalPRO’s, and Steven’s 6.5’s for midbass (and based on what I’ve seen here I think most recommendations would be for the Steven’s Audio 6.5s) - and for the highs… well, it’s been anything from Morel, Peerless or Seas soft domes, to any number of compression drivers and waveguides.

My music choices are mostly EDM (wide range of house, trap, chill, limited hardstyle etc.) and rap/hiphop - but it does need to have the ability reproduce vocals, guitars and percussion for things like DMB, Zac Brown Band, Van Morrison, Eagles etc.

While I do prefer my music slightly “brighter” than a perfectly flat/neutral setup, I cannot stand harsh/shrill highs. They still need to be delicate, without sounding tinny or hollow. Vocals and midrange instruments should also be detailed, without getting lost in each other. Traditionally, these negative qualities have been what's prevented me from moving to horns. However, for what I want to do, it's simply the most logical decision.

Eric Stevens - have you ever been tasked with something like this? Would you even sell separate components, like a compression driver that could be mated to something more suitable for open air? Or do I need to hit Parts Express and just start ordering waveguides and drivers and do the old trial and error method? lol 

Thanks in advance, and - apologies for the long post. 
-Todd


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

How about something like this?
https://www.parts-express.com/bc-6hcx51-65-professional-neodymium-coaxial-speaker-70-x-70-8-ohm--294-5762


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

ca90ss said:


> How about something like this?


Sorry, I tried to reply but being a new guy the forum software wants to run everything through an admin. I should probably get my 5 posts in today, somewhere else, so I can converse more freely. lol 

When (or if) my other post is approved, that will explain it a little better. But for the moment the TL;DR version is this: 
I certainly considered it, but for a couple reasons want to look at other solutions. 

I haven't entirely discounted the idea - but I would want to have some options for midbass driver, compression driver, and waveguide... not just a single generic unit. I know that they're out there - but I've had an extremely difficult time finding them.


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

I think somewhere in my late night rambling, I missed the point I was trying to ask about.

Let's make this more simple. Think of it like this:
You're building an SQ setup for yourself that you are going to have to listen to daily - so it has to sound good - but on the weekends you have to use your setup to DJ huge parties in a massive parking lot, so it has to have the ability to get fairly loud. 
It doesn't have to be THE loudest, but it can't be a mild mannered setup either.

Take away the constraints of fitting a horn under the dash, and take into account that you're moving to open air. 
You have a spot for four 6.5's, and two horns. 

What type of configuration would you go with, now that you don't have a dashboard crammed in your face that you have to be concerned about anymore?

How would you feel about something along the lines of... let's say:
4 - FaitalPRO 6FE200's
2 - B&C DE250 compression drivers
... and assuming I wanted to prevent everyone inside the boat from going deaf, I wanted to do a limited height waveguide/horn. So, what... a 90x40?

Would you still stick with a compact horn like Steven's Audio design, or would you open it up a bit more? Would you be concerned about overpowering the lower frequencies handled by the 6.5's in a case such as that?


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

good luck with this... I am intrigued even though I have the FAINTEST idea about boats.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I have the b&c 8cxn51’s in my car and there’s no comparison between them and any tower speaker I’ve heard including wet sounds and several others and they sound better out of the box than any set of under dash horns I’ve used. If you’re dead set against a coax with a compression driver then Radian makes a couple different coax with pretty efficient ribbon drivers that would be worth looking in to.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

https://radianaudio.com/products/6crf5130/
https://radianaudio.com/products/6cn38lt6/


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

ca90ss said:


> I have the b&c 8cxn51’s in my car and there’s no comparison between them and any tower speaker I’ve heard including wet sounds and several others and they sound better out of the box than any set of under dash horns I’ve used. If you’re dead set against a coax with a compression driver then Radian makes a couple different coax with pretty efficient ribbon drivers that would be worth looking in to.


I'm not dead set against anything, honestly. That's sorta why I'm here. I simply haven't heard any coax hlcd's that approached the level of sound quality I'm after.
(Well, I should say I haven't heard any "off the shelf" coax hlcd's. There is a guy locally that built something from scratch that utilizes a coax for one element (just not solely) that is everything I want - however it's a 100% custom, built from scratch setup using custom enclosures, custom horns, and custom drivers designed and built to the developers specs. Even if I felt like I _could_ try to recreate it using my own selection of drivers, I have nothing but the utmost respect for him and it's _his_ design - I wouldn't ever consider copying it. But that's beside the point.)

My idea was four midbass/midrange drivers, and a separate set of horns mounted in conjunction, then tune it all together and see where I landed. If four coax's are truly the best bet, then that's what I'll go with. 

I'm here because my problem is I come from a decent background of knowledge with respect to traditional component hifi setups, not pro audio. The two worlds are similar enough that I feel like I can make the jump successfully, but at the same time they're just different enough for me to know that I need a little guidance to get started off on the proper foot. Otherwise I'm going to waste a lot of money in what will be a very frustrating trial and error process. 

Everything I read about in here is with respect to horns located in a confined, enclosed space, with more emphasis on detail and clarity, and less thought given to volume. 
Conversely, everything I read about from the pro-audio guys are generally for wide open spaces, volume is a strict concern, but little thought given to experience of sitting 10' from the stage at moderate volume.

And since I fall somewhere in the middle.......... well, now you see why I've failed to make a decision on a setup.

I'll check out those Radian's and do some research on them. Thanks for the alternative!


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

I have done many wakeboard/ski boats and other high output systems that can provide entertainment in the boat or operate as a portable rave system. My HLCD designed for inside the car work quite well. 

I will reply with more input after I read and absorb


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## OCD66 (Apr 2, 2017)

I made a pair of these for a Klipsch project a few years ago. Full carbon, tuned to 340hz. 1" throat. Should go to 4500 easily. I even have some compression drivers. These should do the trick. I'll let them go cheap...


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

^^ interesting.... did you ever use them? Pm me with how much you want, if OP isn’t interested.


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## OCD66 (Apr 2, 2017)

danno14 said:


> ^^ interesting.... did you ever use them? Pm me with how much you want, if OP isn’t interested.


Never used. They were designed to make a Klipsch "CornScala". This is where you replace the "squawker" (mid) K600 in a Cornwall with the squwaker K400 from a LaScala resulting in a lower range with the same K55 series driver. These go lower and fit in the Cornwall cabinet as opposed to the K400 which do not. Full Tractrix design with formula from Bruce Edgar. 
Tools – Volvotreter Homepage



Sorry for the hijack OP


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

OCD66 said:


> Sorry for the hijack OP


Don't apologize... that thing is beautiful.
I wanna do dirty, naughty things to it. :laugh3:

I'm a sucker for CF pieces. 
My wife bought a CF trunk and hood for her car... 6 months before we even bought the damn car. lol


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## OCD66 (Apr 2, 2017)

ibelonginprison said:


> but it does need to have the ability reproduce vocals, guitars and percussion for things like DMB, Zac Brown Band, Van Morrison, Eagles etc.


This is what does it. Efficiently and perfectly.


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

Eric Stevens said:


> I have done many wakeboard/ski boats and other high output systems that can provide entertainment in the boat *or operate as a portable rave system.* My HLCD designed for inside the car work quite well.
> 
> I will reply with more input after I read and absorb


Sounds like you have a handle on it to me. lol
Bonus points if I can make a WetSounds owner cry. :beerchug:

In all seriousness, I'm definitely interested to hear your thoughts on some options.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

ibelonginprison said:


> Sounds like you have a handle on it to me. lol
> Bonus points if I can make a WetSounds owner cry. :beerchug:
> 
> In all seriousness, I'm definitely interested to hear your thoughts on some options.


Making the Wetsounds owner cry isnt that hard. 

If this is about loudness behind the boat like a typical tower set up, you want it to project with an even coverage pattern behind the boat. Using a coaxial driver like those mentioned will work but they are typically intended for near field use rather than far field (projecting). Key to volume is high sensitivity with high power handling(low power compression) and the proper amplification. Using 8"midbass will gain you a significant amount of senstivity+power handling and better midbass response.

Using coaxial drivers in cans will be the simplest and will possibly sacrifice performance in the upper frequency range depending on HF design of the coax. This will be a fairly light weight set up depending driver selected.

With HLCD you can achieve a very good pattern with projection that reaches a rider ehind the boat. My full size CompNeo HLCD is going to have 3 to 5 dB higher sensitivity and equal or higher power handling than that of any coax with similar drivers, depending on the horn chosen with a conventional horn design it will be up to +5 dB depending on horn and driver chosen. With the coax the power handling is increased if you have more HF drivers, but the coverage and FR will suffer from having multiple point sources. 

Weight of a custom built setup will likely higher and determined by materials and construction methods.

Personally I would try to build a ported 4 - 8" set up with a pair of CompNeo FS HLCD, run the tower summed mono and have 250 to 450 watts per 8" and around 100 watts per HLCD. If you do the same with 6.5" you will lose 3dB of sensitivity, lower power of 150 to 300 on each 6.5" and less midbass energy.


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Fascinating thread.

Awhile back, there was a thread soliciting advice on an outdoor HT sound system for a large catamaran, and someone suggested horns ...which, in my complete ignorance of boating in general, seemed rather odd to me. I had no idea...


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

Eric Stevens said:


> Making the Wetsounds owner cry isnt that hard.


No, it's really not. I try not to brand bash, but... well, it's the Bose of the water. Get a bandwagon of consumers, who don't know any better, to "swear up and down it's the best out there" and you end up with an overpriced, mediocre product mass produced using cheap drivers and cheaper electronics. I don't know that I've heard a setup using a WS420EQ that doesn't have noise. Drives me nuts. 
At least Exile uses decent components for their electronics. 



Eric Stevens said:


> If this is about loudness behind the boat like a typical tower set up, you want it to project with an even coverage pattern behind the boat. Using a coaxial driver like those mentioned will work but they are typically intended for near field use rather than far field (projecting). Key to volume is high sensitivity with high power handling(low power compression) and the proper amplification. Using 8"midbass will gain you a significant amount of senstivity+power handling and better midbass response.


One of my biggest challenges is that I can't find anyone that makes an 8" tower can/enclosure that mounts to the Illusion X tower. So I decided to start with the 6.5" enclosures I currently have and leave that battle for another day. I do think I can find some 8" enclosures and modify the mounts to work by fabricating an adapter bracket, but that's for down the road. 



Eric Stevens said:


> Using coaxial drivers in cans will be the simplest and will possibly sacrifice performance in the upper frequency range depending on HF design of the coax. This will be a fairly light weight set up depending driver selected.


If I'm going to sacrifice performance, I don't want it to be because of "simple convenience." Will I have to make concessions because of budget? Yes. Space and mountability? Sure. 
But I don't want to start behind the curve by picking a setup that's limited, from the beginning.



Eric Stevens said:


> With HLCD you can achieve a very good pattern with projection that reaches a rider ehind the boat. My full size CompNeo HLCD is going to have 3 to 5 dB higher sensitivity and equal or higher power handling than that of any coax with similar drivers, depending on the horn chosen with a conventional horn design it will be up to +5 dB depending on horn and driver chosen. With the coax the power handling is increased if you have more HF drivers, but the coverage and FR will suffer from having multiple point sources.


The challenge of multiple HF point sources was what I was battling with the current coax's, and one main reason I wanted to move towards separate midbass (or midrange, really, if I stay with 6.5s) and utilize a single HF driver per side. 


Eric Stevens said:


> Weight of a custom built setup will likely higher and determined by materials and construction methods.


That's a bridge I'll have to cross when I narrow down my options a little more. 



Eric Stevens said:


> Personally I would try to build a ported 4 - 8" set up with a pair of CompNeo FS HLCD, run the tower summed mono and have 250 to 450 watts per 8" and around 100 watts per HLCD. If you do the same with 6.5" you will lose 3dB of sensitivity, lower power of 150 to 300 on each 6.5" and less midbass energy.


You are actually really close with the direction I was headed in. 
My midrange drivers will be on the side, and would be in sealed enclosures. (There's not enough room to do ported, and across the top. The tower just isn't tall enough, and you would spend your life on the boat ducking out of the way of everything.)

But if I did L/R midbass channel to the mid drivers with two on each side, then L/R channel to the horns - mounted just above the top mid enclosure - would that be acceptable? 

And since you've done a couple boats before, would you mind sharing with me some ideas, or maybe concepts, of how you've done enclosures for the horns?

Thanks for your time, Eric!


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The way I was suggesting, if possible, is a stacked pair of the full size HLCD in the center flanked by 2ea. 6.5" on both left and right side. 

Having looked at the tower you could possibly put an underdash horn in a laid back vertical orientation that would work well with the pair of 6.5" or even a single 8" on each side.

In the past when using the underdash style horns they were in the enclosure which spanned across the tower. Smaller horns have been placed in cans. They dont need an enclosure per se, just something to make them look finished and proper.


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

Eric Stevens said:


> The way I was suggesting, if possible, is a stacked pair of the full size HLCD in the center flanked by 2ea. 6.5" on both left and right side.
> 
> Having looked at the tower you could possibly put an underdash horn in a laid back vertical orientation that would work well with the pair of 6.5" or even a single 8" on each side.
> 
> In the past when using the underdash style horns they were in the enclosure which spanned across the tower. Smaller horns have been placed in cans. They dont need an enclosure per se, just something to make them look finished and proper.


Ah, that makes more sense then, yes. Thanks for taking the time to talk it through with me.

Given what you've said, I think that reiterates my initial plan of sticking with two pair of midbass (two drivers on either side of the tower in the factory locations, 6.5 or 8 is tbd) and then a pair of horns, one on each side. I would likely need to mount it above the top midbass. In which case I could leave it in the same horizontal orientation as it would be under a dashboard. 

I do realize that a horn doesn't require an enclosure, functionally - but aesthetics aside I would still need a.) a way to mount the horn itself to the tower, and b.) some sort of support, given the sometimes rough ride/nature of a boat c.) protection from any wayward spray (or drunk friends.) 
Thankfully my boat doesn't see rain - though I do plan to have my upholstery guy sew up a basic waterproof cover for it.

Can you talk to me about the rough dimensions of a fullsize horn, and type of weight that I would be working with? I'm sure I can make it fit, but I would like to get an initial idea, so I can start measuring out my space limitations and then look for a suitable mounting solution.

And also, could you help me understand some of the basic differences you think would be noticed between the CompNeo and the Pro sets, in an open air environment like I'm working with? 
IASCA doesn't have a category for boats so I won't be competing with it - but would I notice a major difference between things like:
- ability to tune using a 10band para EQ (I don't want to get a bunch of money tied up in $1500 DSP's, if I can help it)
- audio projection
- power handling etc.

Sorry if I'm being a pest. I've tried to read up on both of them, but every search I do tends to return a vast number of threads and as I sift through them I haven't been able to find a definitive answer for "here's what you can expect when you upgrade from the Pro to the Neo." If there's something already discussed somewhere, point me in the direction of what some specific keywords are to search for and I'm sure I can find it from there.

If all you can tell me is - "Todd, for what you want to do it's just better, and I think you would be disappointed if you didn't go with the Neo" - then, I'd take your word for it. Every bit of info helps me make a decision. lol

Thanks again for your time. 
Weather permitting I'm going to have to start mocking something up for the install within the next month.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

Wetsounds speakers. Very loud tower speakers.


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

DPGstereo said:


> Wetsounds speakers. Very loud tower speakers.


Eww...


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Dimensions for the Full Size horn body is Mouth 15" x 2.75" Depth at compression driver ~9.0" 

As far as differences between compression drivers the CompNeo is going to have more output through higher sensitivity and reduced power compression with smoother upper midrange and better performance above 10Khz. 

The PRO driver is very capable but is eing replaced by a new driver the "Comp" which is the ferrite version of the CompNeo. So differences are CompNeo will have slight reduction in power compression and slight improvement in the upper high frequency range with about 2dB higher sensitivity 109 vs 111.


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

Eric Stevens said:


> Dimensions for the Full Size horn body is Mouth 15" x 2.75" Depth at compression driver ~9.0"
> 
> As far as differences between compression drivers the CompNeo is going to have more output through higher sensitivity and reduced power compression with smoother upper midrange and better performance above 10Khz.
> 
> The PRO driver is very capable but is eing replaced by a new driver the "Comp" which is the ferrite version of the CompNeo. So differences are CompNeo will have slight reduction in power compression and slight improvement in the upper high frequency range with about 2dB higher sensitivity 109 vs 111.


Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Eric. You've given me a good bit to think about over the next couple of weeks. And you gave me a solution that probably saved me a ton of trial and error dollars. lol 

Part of me says dive in head first, sink or swim son, "get the Neo's and be done with it," ---- but the sensible part of me says "get your feet wet with horns in general, learn them, then decide if you need to shift to a different driver." 

You said that there will be a ferrite version of the comps, does that mean they're available now'ish? Or just sometime in the future? 
Also, is the pricepoint going to be similar to the Pros? 

I will tell you this - you've convinced me to go 8's for midbass. So I'm going to get started on those mounting solutions this weekend, ha.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

ibelonginprison said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Eric. You've given me a good bit to think about over the next couple of weeks. And you gave me a solution that probably saved me a ton of trial and error dollars. lol
> 
> Part of me says dive in head first, sink or swim son, "get the Neo's and be done with it," ---- but the sensible part of me says "get your feet wet with horns in general, learn them, then decide if you need to shift to a different driver."
> 
> ...


The new Comp are in stock as of last week, differences in the Comp and CompNeo drivers is small. 
Price point is a little higher at $459 / pair


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Id like to see some pics of boats you've done in the past Eric. If thats at all possible

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

Kind of surprised at the negative commits about the _*Wetsounds Rev 10*_?
For their intended purpose, which is more for the wakeboarder that around 50' behind a boat...I haven't heard anything come close.
I have two _*Rev 10's*_ and a single _*Rev 410*_ in center...on tower, firing back. 
A clean 200 watts rms on each of the four 10" drivers. Sounds great back behind the boat or any distance away from boat. I wouldn't sit right in front of them, but that's not the intended purpose.
I haven't heard a boat, without _*Wetsounds*_ on sound bar, that comes anywhere close to the volume and quality of sound...for the skier behind the boat.
I suspect what may trip some up is the price. They are pricey. But good for intended purpose.
For in boat listening, I have marine four 6.5 MB Quarts and JL Audio 10" marine free-air sub (JL M400/4, M600/1)). Use the fader control to adjust in-boat vs. tower speakers.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

Talking about price...hard to believe that *Nautique's* are selling at $80k - $120k.
When I bought mine, the top of the line was selling for around $40k.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

DPGstereo said:


> Talking about price...hard to believe that *Nautique's* are selling at $80k - $120k.
> When I bought mine, the top of the line was selling for around $40k.


Got a 1 owner 600 hour 91 MasterCraft Prostar 190 for $11k.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

DPGstereo said:


> Kind of surprised at the negative commits about the _*Wetsounds Rev 10*_?
> For their intended purpose, which is more for the wakeboarder that around 50' behind a boat...I haven't heard anything come close.
> I have two _*Rev 10's*_ and a single _*Rev 410*_ in center...on tower, firing back.
> A clean 200 watts rms on each of the four 10" drivers. Sounds great back behind the boat or any distance away from boat. I wouldn't sit right in front of them, but that's not the intended purpose.
> ...


I can understand your perspective, and I don't disagree with you entirely. So forgive the long winded post, but you asked some questions about "why not WS" - so I'll try to detail it as quickly as possible. 

Price in and of itself isn't the issue - if they were WORTH it, then it wouldn't be a question. The problem is - they are the Bose of the water. They're overpriced for what they are, and they are marketed to the masses, not the audiophile. Having heard amazing custom horn setups before - I know that it's VERY possible to get an end result that makes any WS product sound like "Playskool, my first HLCD." The question wasn't "is there better sound out there..." we all know that there is - the question was "can I put together something better, myself." 

I've heard just about every setup there is out there. Pro60's, Rev8s, Rev10's, Rev410's, Icons, Exile XM7's and XM9's, etc. - both stock and custom setups, tuned by experienced shops. 

So here's my opinion on Rev's:
Run of the mill, medium grade 2" compression driver that lacks the finite detail in the upper frequencies, combined with an inexpensively made, built-in xover board that was designed to "sound good in a wide variety of applications" - which, in my opinion, leaves the speaker sounding very "horn heavy." In addition to that, the wave guide is such a short flare and omnidirectional that as soon as sound hits the mouth, it's dispersed in every direction. Inside the boat, behind the boat, to the side of the boat etc.
What they lack in directed focus, they try to make up for with volume.

I won't talk about the rest, because they aren't worth spending time on, but I agree, I have heard a handful of Rev10's that were actually decent sounding. Two of my best friends have spent a good amount of time and money setting their towers up correctly, (and I've spent hours with them planning, tweaking and tuning) and I have several more friends that, while not going "full overboard" - have been able to make theirs sound good. As far as off the shelf options that mount to the side of the tower, the Rev10 is the best you'll get. I feel the 410 is a slight upgrade from there. I think twin midbass help cover the "heavy horn" nature and add some detail and separation. It's simply not an option for me because of mounting constraints.

In addition to the aspects I mentioned above - you still have the same challenges of tuning any traditional coaxial speaker. There is no channel separation between HF and LF drivers, so you are forced to accept the default xover point, including attenuation of the horn, and must tune both LF and HF as a packaged deal. On top of that, with more than one pair, you are forced to deal with multiple source points for HF's, and you're restricted to only being able to adjust time alignment for the entire pod - something I've been wanting to get away from for a long time now.

Side note, for anyone that mentions it - I'm also very familiar with Exile, and outside of the Sinister series WS amps I feel the Exile amps are superior to most WS electronics products. (Don't even get me started on the ****show that is the WS 420EQ - 90% of them introduce noise into the system and it's a tragedy that anyone even sells them to people.) 
Back to speakers... many enthusiasts, particularly the west coast boys, are Exile fanatics and will contest to their dying breath that XM9's sound better than any Rev speaker. I will say this, Brian and his team at Exile have amazing customer service and I have a ton of respect for how they take care of their customers. That said, the XM9 has a DIFFERENT sound than the WS (probably due to a smaller compression driver), but not necessarily "better," from my standpoint.

I didn't mention this before (cause it really doesn't make much of a difference for anything), but I was an IASCA certified judge for many years.(doesn't mean I'm any good at building or tuning - just means I've been around it a lot) - and while it's been a few years since I've sat in a dedicated SQ build, I still have the ear for it. 

In summary - 
While WetSounds Rev10's are probably the best marine grade, pre-packaged HLCD speaker on the market - that doesn't mean that you can't build something that sounds vastly better. And I know for a fact that it can be done because I've heard it. I stuck with conventional drivers for years because while I knew what was possible with the right horn setup - I also knew the learning curve for SQ'ing horns was steep - and I simply wouldn't be able to live with an average sounding setup. 

So that's where I am today. It was time for me to make a change. I was only willing to make the move to pro's and horns if I could still keep progressing forward on the path of lifelike, musical reproduction. I was prepared to purchase a pair of compression drivers, and 4-5 different sets of wave guides, pull out REW and my UMIK1, and start learning all over again. 
Then... Eric replied - and all of the sudden, I had a huge jumpstart to my education and my project. 

I know it can be done, because I've heard it. It just boils down to can *I* do it. 

So - I guess we'll see!


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

DPGstereo said:


> Talking about price...hard to believe that *Nautique's* are selling at $80k - $120k.
> When I bought mine, the top of the line was selling for around $40k.


No kidding. Two of my best friends work for separate dealerships, and one is the sales manager across the state. Between them they sell Malibu, Axis, MasterCraft, Moomba and Supra.

There are guys that I'm friends with (more weekend buddies than the other two), at a Nautique dealership. 

Brother, let me tell you - I love my 23LSV and you'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands - but tying up every weekend to a $170k M235, a $140k G23, and a $130k XStar is a real lesson in humility. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

I agree that the REv10's and 410's are not audiophile speakers, by any means. I don't think that is their intended purpose. More to get decent sound to the guy back behind the boat while wake boarding.
Like a pro-audio pa speaker used in a large concert venue. Designed to get loud sound for long distances.
Kind of how I see the Rev10's.


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## ibelonginprison (Jul 24, 2018)

DPGstereo said:


> I agree that the REv10's and 410's are not audiophile speakers, by any means. I don't think that is their intended purpose. More to get decent sound to the guy back behind the boat while wake boarding.
> Like a pro-audio pa speaker used in a large concert venue. Designed to get loud sound for long distances.
> Kind of how I see the Rev10's.


That's their exact purpose. Create a single enclosure that gets loud, at long distances, and have a good margin of profit for themselves. I don't fault them for that... not at all. If you're in the business of making money, then that's how you make money. For almost everyone else out there it's still perfect. Buy some Rev10's, toss a bunch of power at them, maybe EQ 'em a little bit with what you have on hand at the dash, and you're done. You're loud and it doesn't sound bad. 
It's good enough for almost everyone. 

I just refuse to accept "good enough." Which is why they aren't for me.


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