# Mark Levinson System upgrade



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

Has anyone upgraded components on a Marl Levinson system in an 06 or newer Lexus?
I am wanting to add subs and better components to the front door / dash locations.
Any recommendations or suggestions to smooth out the process?


----------



## spork (Jul 1, 2008)

I have no personal experience with changing that system, but it is one good sounding set up for stock. Honestly, a lot will disagree, but it is going to be difficult to improve upon - but I hope you can accomplish your goals - and hopefully somebody else can answer your questions.


----------



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

Yes it is a decent stock system...but I want more clarity on the mids and highs and more punch on the bass...the whole system sounds somewhat muffled.
I got the itch to do this after upgrading my sons car with all focal components.


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Well, if you were doing a total replcament then that might be a good start right there...If you like the Focals then go that route. However, that system has so many drivers that who knows what results one will end up with just replacing the speakers? Even if someone has replaced some of the drivers, there is no way to tell what the sound will be like if you did the same thing with different drivers.

Nevertheless, doing something like this is more of an experiment no matter how much feedback you get. As much as you like the sound of the Focal drivers, I say find good sounding raw drivers that are not too expensive and go that route. Investing a bunch of cash on a component sets to be connected to a stock system that has already been tuned specifically for the OEM drivers might be an expensive risk.

Does your system consist of the 14 speaker Discrete 5.1 multi-channel playback via a 7.1speaker topology? This system here?

*



A next-generation Mark Levinson audio system in the 2006 Lexus GS luxury sport sedan is said to provide a discrete 5.1 home theatre entertainment experience optimized for playback of music, music videos and movies.

The 14-speaker, 330-watt system features discrete 5.1 multichannel playback via a 7.1 speaker topology, Mark Levinson Surround (MLS) audio software for multiseat listening, full digital transmission from the digital source to the discrete output topology power amplifiers, proprietary metal cone midrange and tweeter transducers, and 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding of DVD video, DVD audio and DVD-R discs.

Speakers include four 25 mm tweeters, five 65 mm midranges, four 16 cm woofers, and a 25 cm subwoofer. The processor/amplifier will produce a total power output of 330 watts, all channels driven, 20 kHz to 20kHz at less than 0.1% total harmonic distortion.

Click to expand...

*Looks like 1" tweeters, 2.5" mids, 6.5" midbasses, and a 10" sub. Now I am sure these are very odd drivers in shape and mounting...also, I doubt they are all 4 Ohm drivers? Would need to find out the Ohms and mounting depth of the drivers...and may have to make or get custom brakets or mounting baffles to make conventional speaker work?

As far as the sub and more bass, you might be able to custom mount a nice IB 10" in there powered by an aftermarket amp for more power....or run a 12", two 10s, or two 12s in an enclosure in the rear.

So, while I have NO experience what so ever working with a Lexus I think finding great low cost drivers is the best way to go about a driver only swap in a multi-speaker system like that. I don't know any details about size, ohms, etc but drivers like the ones below are what I would look at...these have been used quite a bit around here and are great drivers for cheap!

Tweeters - LPG 26NA, Seas 27TAFNC/G, Tang Band 25-1744S ~$40-$60
Mid - Peerless 830985, Tang Band W2-1811S ~ $20-$48
Midbass - Peerless SLS 6.5" ~ $92
Sub - AE Speakers IB10A ~ $135

So for about $290 - $340 you can get all the drivers you would need to upgrade a set of tweeters, mids, midbasses, and the sub and opposed to paying more than that for just one set of Focal components. So, I hope this gives you an example and ideas but there is so much more that I just don't have the answers to. Good luck!


----------



## nautilus (Oct 14, 2009)

Hi,

I would think it will be a wiser move first by changing the individual speakers, as they are all factory fitted, speakers that are easy to drive.
I have seen the amp with the in built-DSP amp on both the LS460 and the GS 300, its very small.


----------



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

I have already purchased the subs- 2 x 10" Dayton Titanics and the front components -(front door / dash corners)- will be HSK 165.3 that I got great deals on...subs will just be an add on to the existing system powered by seperate mono amps. I was going to try and add the components to existing in car amp as replacements. Guess I should have added that info to my original post. I prefer stereo to surround...(I have yet to be at a live performance that sounded more like 5.1 than good stereo does)

I am thinking the Toyota Camry new model 07-10 speaker adapters are the same as needed for the Lexus. I will find out when I tear the doors apart for sure.


----------



## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

If you want to upgrade just start from scratch. Do not care about the OEM components but, perhaps, the HU.


----------



## nautilus (Oct 14, 2009)

major surgery ?:laugh:


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Yeah, it sounds like you need to replace the whole system....deck and all? 

Is there a stereo signal to feed from coming off the deck? Or is it already proccessed ? If so, I would install a new deck and amps as well. Hell, with the HSK comp set, I would put an aftermarket amp on those anyway.


----------



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

The plan is to add the 3rd amp for comp set later- probably 4 channel so I can replace the rear doors also. I want to keep the stock head unit because it runs too much of the cars electronics...
I guess I will find out if the output is already split into ranges or if it is just surround sound when I install the comps..I have heard the amp is 5.1- not sure though because there is not a lot of literature available about the guts of the system. I will be starting this in a few weeks. Still gathering odds and ends to do the install. Plus- wife does not want the money to be spent- she thinks the system is fine as is....

Problem is I just got finished installing a nice system in my sons car and I am jealous!:laugh:


----------



## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

From the awesome workshop of SimplicityinSound... aka Bing.

ICIXSound.COM Forums - Install Log of my most involved install in a long time - Please DONT reply to this 

Let me know if you need any help- I'm up in L'ville right off i85.


----------



## stalintc (Dec 6, 2007)

Just as heads up, the amp has a digital input, and balanced input, and full DSP processing built in, optimized for each channel/driver. Just bolting a new driver in is a bad idea unless taking the amp out of the picture. Also there is no volume changing signal anywhere in the vehicle behind the amplifier. The only way to do so is to tap into the outputs, and knowing the ability of the DSP in that amp, it will be tough to mitigate it with a processor (IMO, for the record I have little or no experience with the Clean Sweep, Audison, or Fosgate units, I just have my doubts of their ability to "correct" delay, phase, volume dependant filters, spatial filters, etc).

This is DIYMA so go for it, I just wanted to scratch the surface on what you will be getting into.


----------



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

slade1274 said:


> From the awesome workshop of SimplicityinSound... aka Bing.
> 
> ICIXSound.COM Forums - Install Log of my most involved install in a long time - Please DONT reply to this
> 
> Let me know if you need any help- I'm up in L'ville right off i85.


If I get stuck along the way I may take you up on that!
Thanks man!


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

stalintc said:


> Just as heads up, the amp has a digital input, and balanced input, and full DSP processing built in, optimized for each channel/driver. Just bolting a new driver in is a bad idea unless taking the amp out of the picture. Also there is no volume changing signal anywhere in the vehicle behind the amplifier. The only way to do so is to tap into the outputs, and knowing the ability of the DSP in that amp, it will be tough to mitigate it with a processor (IMO, for the record I have little or no experience with the Clean Sweep, Audison, or Fosgate units, I just have my doubts of their ability to "correct" delay, phase, volume dependant filters, spatial filters, etc).
> This is DIYMA so go for it, I just wanted to scratch the surface on what you will be getting into.


Sounds like you might be out of luck trying to use the factory deck in stereo.


----------



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

Hello all!
I have been digging into this and found a couple of DSP's from Audio Control the LC-8 which is an 8 channel line output converter with summing and the DQL-8 which does the same plus has 1/3rd octave EQ...
The question is - Do you think the EQ is necessary to accomplish this project?
It is like 3x the price.


----------



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

To add onto a previous poster's comments...

I've read up on a few other installs posted online (including the one upthread) where people have used the AudioControl digital processors in Lexus installs, but it's my understanding that there are two major issues the AC units can't address with the ML system DSP: time delay & volume adjusting eq curves.

Each speaker in your ML system has time alignment applied to it, so how do you sum them together to when they are all slightly off/possibly out of phase?

Unless you use a master volume control and leave your HU at a set volume, how do you overcome the volume based eq'ing that goes on in the ML amp? Ever notice how you bass starts to disappear when you turn the volume up? (I have an IS).

To my knowledge, the AC units can't handle these situations. Possibly the Bitone, MS8, or DSP6 can, I'm not familiar enough with them to say.

It probably sounds reasonably ok with the AC units, but are you getting everything you could out of it? Probably not.


----------



## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I've seen the guts of the ML amp used in those, it has a big DSP chip in it running the whole thing. The amp itself has to be 50rms/ch or likely less. Nice amp, but not much you can do unless you can program it.


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

It really seems like you could add a CLEANSWEEP or AUDIO CONTROL unit etc. but you would be settling. This is not your average STEREO OEM deck like a Bose, Monsson, Alpine, Panasonic, etc. The Lexus M.L. system seems to have much too much built in processing to over come? IMO, I don't know that I would waste my money.

So, settle for less than stellar stereo or....figure out how to get an aftermarket deck in.


----------



## stalintc (Dec 6, 2007)

WLDock said:


> It really seems like you could add a CLEANSWEEP or AUDIO CONTROL unit etc. but you would be settling. This is not your average STEREO OEM deck like a Bose, Monsson, Alpine, Panasonic, etc. The Lexus M.L. system seems to have much too much built in processing to over come? IMO, I don't know that I would waste my money.
> 
> So, settle for less than stellar stereo or....figure out how to get an aftermarket deck in.


Good luck with that:furious::bigcry: 

In my experience as an installer playing with the levinson systems I have come to one conclusion; all or nothing. I tried to do a 2007 IS. Unplug the amp and you have no volume control, and who knows what else. 

Enough of the bad news, here are some ideas I have though about:

If you are after more clarity up front try changing the grill for the tweeters? A good open grill cloth will outperform any molded plastic one I have seen.

As far as adding sub(s), if I had to do it I would probably use a line level converter off of the output to the factory sub. You would avoid the time delay of the system, avoid the mismatched delays in any summing device, and you have the signal level right there for you. The downside is you will also have the eq of the factory sub going to the new one...

Just a few options to think about.


----------



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

stalintc said:


> If you are after more clarity up front try changing the grill for the tweeters? A good open grill cloth will outperform any molded plastic one I have seen.
> 
> As far as adding sub(s), if I had to do it I would probably use a line level converter off of the output to the factory sub. You would avoid the time delay of the system, avoid the mismatched delays in any summing device, and you have the signal level right there for you. The downside is you will also have the eq of the factory sub going to the new one...


The tweeter grilles are metal, at least in newer models. I actually think the tweets sound pretty decent in these systems.

I added subs in my IS via an LOC. At first, I tapped the sub signal, but it's factory LP'ed around 80hz, and then it doesn't play very low so I'm sure there's a subsonic cutoff as well. I then tapped the woofer in the rear doors, which sounds better because it's more of a full range signal, but it doesn't play very low either, probably not below 50hz. So you can get more bass by adding subs, but it still doesn't sound as well as it should. You also need to add a remote sub level to help overcome the volume eq'ing, or else you'll have **** tons of DSP'ed bass at low volume to get appropriate sounding levels of bass at high volume.

I'm toying with the idea of replacing the stock speakers first to see if that nets any SQ improvements. The ML system is over 300 watt RMS so it should be enough to reasonably push a DIY driver.


----------



## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

chauss said:


> Has anyone upgraded components on a Marl Levinson system in an 06 or newer Lexus?
> I am wanting to add subs and better components to the front door / dash locations.
> Any recommendations or suggestions to smooth out the process?


I have seen an installl where all the OEM install was keep just as is. The owner install a high end two way component set in kickpanels, a pair of subs and amps at the trunk. No mayor mods, good SQ.

The HU thing is not a great deal, CDs are dead!, I will just go with a big IPod with an interface.
For tunning... BitOne.


----------



## chauss (Sep 20, 2009)

This could not have stumped everyone--
Someone out there has had to do this before?


----------



## RMF419 (Feb 13, 2008)

I would agree with WLDock and nautilus. Changing out various speakers to more efficient speakers would be your best best. You really need to keep the head unit in there.


----------



## sawick (Mar 22, 2017)

RMF419 said:


> I would agree with WLDock and nautilus. Changing out various speakers to more efficient speakers would be your best best. You really need to keep the head unit in there.


Why not just run a 4 channel amp with high level inputs coming from the ML 4 channel amp and then add a mono amp for your subs?

I have a LX470 and I am researching stereo options and the BIG PROBLEM with Mark Levinson is that all the stock drivers are high impedance(8 Ohms). I'm finding it near impossible to find car stereo speakers that are 8 ohms. They are all 2 or 4 ohms. The amp will go into protection mode when ever you crank the volume and if you keep the volume at a reasonable level, the amp will burn out sooner than it would and that's not a cheap amp to replace or to get repaired. 

Would there be much of a loss in sound quality running additional amps off of the ML amp outputs? You would get to keep all the DSP from the head unit and you can run easy to find car speakers of any impedance that you can find and you wouldn't ever have to worry about the ML amp going bad from getting over worked. 

The only other option is going through a website like madisound.com and ordering individual component speakers that match up to the size and impedance of the originals and keeping the ML amp. You just have to be careful of what speakers you buy from there because they are home audio speakers. Certain materials won't last long in a car with cold, heat, and humidity at play.

What are your guys thoughts?


----------

