# 2013 Honda Fit Build Thread (Sony, Zapco, Dynaudio, Morel, maybe JL, etc.)



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Hello,

I joined this forum few years ago but I had to do other upgrade project for my car before I finally can start my audio project...
and finally... 4 years later...

I officially start my Audio Upgrade Project today 
with the arrival of My Brand New Sony RSX-GS9 Head Unit 

This is a Single DIN unit and I plan to fill up the remaining space on my double din dash opening with triple Defi ADVANCE RS gauge later.

This is a very long built process and I am still collecting the component needed for this project.
I need to take my time since I can't afford to buy everything at once









Here are the list of components that I am planning to have in this system:
a. Sony RSX-GS9 (Bought)
b. Zapco ASP-X4 Active Analog Crossover
c. Zapco Z-150.6LX 6 channel power amplifier to feed front 2 way active
and rear fill
d. Zapco Z-1KD with Z-BR remote if needed to feed single subwoofer
e. Dynaudio Esotar2 650 Midbass
f. Dynaudio Esotar2 110 Tweeter
g. CNC Machine Aluminum A-Pillar Tweeter Pod for Dynaudio Esotar 2 110 Tweeter (Bought from that eBay guy in Germany and on the way)
h. Morel Audio Hybrid Integra 602 Coaxial for rear fill
i. I prefer to have 2 under seat stereo subwoofer which will be
a pair of Alpine PWE-S8 
but if the Alpine PWE-S8 don't fit under my future Recaro seat
then I will buy
j. a single JL Audio CS110G-TW3 10" sealed subwoofer driven by the Zapco Z-1KD amp and put it between the center console and the rear passenger seat (right in the middle) which will make my 3 rear passenger seat become a sporty 2 rear passenger seat only








k. I plan to have all Audioquest RCA cable
l. I already install big 3 wiring and speaker cable with components from Rockford Fosgate, Streetwires, Stinger, Scosche, Metra.
m. I already have full car sound deadening done long time ago (roof, door, entire floor and trunk and trunk hatch door too).
The sound deadening include Acoustic Foam, MLV, Closed Ceal Foam, CLD Tiles) so the acoustic is ready **

The installation and tuning will be done by myself which mean,
it will not look perfect and it might not sound the best,
but hey, like that song "my way"...
at least I DO IT MY WAY









now here is the unboxing pictures of the Sony RSX-GS9














































































































That is all for today,
I hope to continue soon


----------



## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

nice gear list! except for that sony..not a fan of that things interface..or lack of it..but I do think your one of the few running all analog after it and for this a compliment you. I would consider adding some kind of eq between the deck and crossover though, not sure what the sony offers so might be redundant, but a few simple eq tweeks can make a world of difference to the sound.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> nice gear list! except for that sony..not a fan of that things interface..or lack of it..but I do think your one of the few running all analog after it and for this a compliment you. I would consider adding some kind of eq between the deck and crossover though, not sure what the sony offers so might be redundant, but a few simple eq tweeks can make a world of difference to the sound.


Hi Lycancatt,
Thanks for your comment and advise,

Yes, I totally understand your feeling on the Sony,
when I first find out about it,
I was like... what the heck is this??? 

but then, I realize it will allow me to put triple Defi Advance RS 52mm Gauge (for Oil Pressure/Oil Temperature/Fuel Pressure) right under it since my car have double din opening, this will solve the problem of too much gauge on top of my dashboard... I need this gauge since I modified my car with Supercharger......

Second I also realized, that the navigation system on the Alpine/Pioneer/Clarion are not free when you want to upgrade the map, so their map will become obsolete when road changes... unless I want to pay,...
My old garmin gps give me free map upgrade anytime I want, so I don't know why Alpine/Pioneer/Clarion do not offer that

The google map or apple map on my Iphone which I now use more than my separate Garmin on dash GPS because the google map is more real time work just fine and the audio instruction from the iphone google map can be stream to this sony... so there is my navigation solution and if necessary,
I can use an ipad to do the same thing and still connect to the iphone for phone call through the ipad...

Third, this is what make me fall in love with this Sony is the simple industrial look, machine face plate remind me of a nice high end home audio and also I use to own Nakamichi TD 1200 LTD MarkII and later Nakamichi CD-700 MarkII, so this Sony is closer to those old head unit in styling compare to the brand new navigation head unit with all their plasticky button...

so what sell me in the end is just the looks of this Sony...
so beautiful for my eyes 

ah. the nice DAC converter in this Sony also allow me to build my system in a more analog old school kind of way like you just point out (not to mention save me money from buying DSP hahaha)...
so yeah...
I really fall in love with this Sony so despite all the lack of feature...
the charm and the looks and the big heart (the DAC) won my heart...

The Sony have some EQ function, I don't know how powerful it is,
but I might just leave it flat anyway with a little of boost in treble and that's about it... but I don't want to add more equipment just because
I want it to be as simple short path as possible...
if the Sony have internal xover for 2 way active system I would not even use a Zapco Active xover... just straight to the amp for the purest simplest shortest path possible... but unfortunately the Sony don't have the capability for 2 way active system... so the Zapco ASP-X4 is needed...

I am not looking for SQ competition winning system...
as long as it's make my ear happy, I am happy


----------



## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I agree on all your points, especially the style of this sony vs the navigation double din things that look so cheap..

my issue is more with how you are required to use there ap and when the ap is active the unit itself does nothing at all when you press a button, so if you want to pause you need to look at phone etc etc. plus it doesn't read single usb drives very well unless you learn the workarounds, like having to make a folder on the drive called "music" or it wont read it at all. just seems like a lot of silliness for the price paid, but the dac and looks are top notch and if I had one with a remote I liked to better control it and not be tied to a phone, I'd enjoy it very much.


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Subbed. Nice car. I would love to see pics of the non audio mods you did. If you have a build log on another site, the link would be great. Thanks 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> I agree on all your points, especially the style of this sony vs the navigation double din things that look so cheap..
> 
> my issue is more with how you are required to use there ap and when the ap is active the unit itself does nothing at all when you press a button, so if you want to pause you need to look at phone etc etc. plus it doesn't read single usb drives very well unless you learn the workarounds, like having to make a folder on the drive called "music" or it wont read it at all. just seems like a lot of silliness for the price paid, but the dac and looks are top notch and if I had one with a remote I liked to better control it and not be tied to a phone, I'd enjoy it very much.


Hi,
I am going to connect this Sony to my steering wheel control with an iDatalink Maestro SW adapter and on my steering wheel I have the volume up down and track up down button, but the iDatalink suppose to be able to have second function from the same button such as pause by holding and pressing one of the steering wheel button... I don't know whether this will work or not with the App running though... so I will test it (someday when I finish install) and report it back here...

and thank you for letting me know about the need for that music folder for USB... so I will be aware that there are finicky with this unit that I just have to found a way, otherwise I might think I have a broken unit


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> Subbed. Nice car. I would love to see pics of the non audio mods you did. If you have a build log on another site, the link would be great. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



Hello,
Below are some of the modification that I did and posted on Fitfreak forum:

My Big3 Wiring + PIAA Horn - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

My Front Brembo Gran Turismo 6 Piston Type III Rotor - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

My JDM DISK BRAKE RS Rear Axle conversion - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

Defi Gauge/Garage Amis/JDM Fit RS Speedometer Emblem - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

Sound Deadening (Acoustic Foam, MLV, Closed Ceal Foam, CLD Tiles) - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

My JDM Fit RS Mugen Rear Under Spoiler - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

My JDM Fit RS Mugen Side Skirt - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

Project Setrab Oil Cooler plus SPAL Radiator Fan - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

Samco Hose, Maxbore Throttle Body, Boomslang Harness - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums



The projects above and more
is why it took me 4 years before I am able to get back to the audio upgrade for my Honda Fit


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Do you already own the Zapco ASP-X4, or is it just what you are planning to use? I ask because that will run you close to $300 at a minimum. You could substitute a basic DSP for not much more, or possibly less! For about the same $300 you could get a miniDSP C-DSP 6x8. There are also processors like the JL TwK and others that retail for around $400 and if you want to stick with Zapco, the new DSP Z8-IV should be hitting the streets now with a retail price of $500. 

If you only need a crossover for your front components, even something like the miniDSP 2x4 or 2x4HD could fit the bill for even less than the ASP-X4.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Do you already own the Zapco ASP-X4, or is it just what you are planning to use? I ask because that will run you close to $300 at a minimum. You could substitute a basic DSP for not much more, or possibly less! For about the same $300 you could get a miniDSP C-DSP 6x8. There are also processors like the JL TwK and others that retail for around $400 and if you want to stick with Zapco, the new DSP Z8-IV should be hitting the streets now with a retail price of $500.
> 
> If you only need a crossover for your front components, even something like the miniDSP 2x4 or 2x4HD could fit the bill for even less than the ASP-X4.


Hi rton20s,

I haven't bought the Zapco ASP-X4 but I am pretty sure I am going to use that one...
Yes, a lot of good DSP like Zapco DSP Z8-IV is very close to that price,
but I am kind of picky meaning

a. I got to have steering wheel volume control to the Sony RSX-GS9
so I can't use the optical output to feed the DSP since Sony RSX-GS9 optical output have fix non adjustable volume...
(silly reason because I don't like to have a button on my car that don't work hahaha)

b. If I use analog input of the DSP, then it got to go through ADC and later DAC back so it might not be as pure/natural as I want it to be

c. If I want to buy a DSP, I would only want to buy the top of the line model
like the newest upcoming Zapco HDR with built in RTA gen V DSP or
I keep hearing that Helix DSP Pro something model is very very good...
The reason is not that I am going to need all the features but just simply because this might be the last time I am going to modified my car...
after this, I think I am going to retired from modifying car and concentrate on getting money for my 2 sons to go to college in the next few years...
then money for me and my wife to retire...
I am just doing this again because I think I am having a mid life crisis :jester:
so if I had to buy, I want the nicest DSP I can afford...
just so I can say, I buy the nicest one and for my own bragging right...

but then again... it will never end and it will be at least another $1,500 for that Zapco latest Gen V DSP...
so...
I decide I just have to draw the line not get carried away and get the nicest analog crossover I can think of... 
and that is why I will buy the Zapco ASP-X4... 
at least I can still brag I have one of the nicest analog crossover
I know some of my reasoning sounds silly and what can you expect from someone with a midlife crisis problem like me 

Anyway, this analog configuration will also allow for less digital processing and who knows,... it might sound more natural in the end... although for sure will not be as precise as the one processed by DSP
My system won't be winning any SQ contest for sure, just to win my heart


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

My God. What you did to that Fit, and I mean that in a good way. I alway liked that car. You have some amazing skills, patiently awaiting the audio upgrade.


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I was looking over your build and all I can say is bravo for what you've done to that car.


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Subbed !


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> My God. What you did to that Fit, and I mean that in a good way. I alway liked that car. You have some amazing skills, patiently awaiting the audio upgrade.





Coppertone said:


> I was looking over your build and all I can say is bravo for what you've done to that car.





oabeieo said:


> Subbed !


Thanks for the kind words and following my thread everybody


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I have a ge8 -as well, can u post more pics on install


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

oabeieo said:


> I have a ge8 -as well, can u post more pics on install


Hi oabeieo,

I think I talk to you last week on fitfreak forum asking you for advise on the larger alternator that you had.

I haven't start the install yet, still in the process of buying all the equipment needed, but for sure I will post my install journey here


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

More parts arrives today:

a. Dynaudio Esotar A-Pillar CNC Machined Aluminum Gauge Pod:


































b. i-DataLink Maestro SW Steering Wheel integration module (very easy
to reflash):









Also here are collections of parts that I need to use to complete the install,
fuse block/distribution block, some extra wiring, cable holder, Honda Pilot DIN head unit trim, Metra Honda Harness adapter, Honda Speaker Trim adapter etc:










a box of wiring loom protector:










A new run of 4 awg Rockford Fosgate power cable, I plan to use this one for either a pair of under seat subwoofer or for a Zapco mono power amp if I decide to run a single JL subwoofer inside the passenger compartment...











I also have another run of 4 awg Rockford Fosgate power cable that goes to the trunk that will power the Zapco 6 channel amp, but I installed this long time ago when I still have my old powered 10in Rockford sub.


This is my Big3 wiring setup:


























Dynaudio Esotar2 650, 430 and 110 original machined MDF trim set 
(and one pair of extra Esotar2 650 trim that is not original from Dynaudio):





















Original Honda Fit Navigation Trim and bracket that I upholstered 
in Leather with Yellow Stitching and JDM Red Hazard Light:





























Unrelated to audio but I also do yellow stitching for center console, Gauge Pod, door handle, emergency brake handle cover and front glove box cover, J's racing with yellow stitching so everything match:



















































Saving money now to buy the rest of the equipment needed


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

^^^. Great job with the accent stitching, adds a nice contrast.


----------



## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Really nice upholstery work that you did. A skill I wish I had. :thumbsup:


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Boosted fit! Wow! 

Tell us more about that. What supercharger is that? Did u do a motor swap?
Do u have standalone management of some kind? 

I have a 12fit and am getting some sweet ideas


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I tell you what, this man is not " Fitting around " pun intended.


----------



## josby (May 8, 2011)

Very cool! I agree that the industrial look of that Sony is really nice. It's crazy, I wouldn't have guessed anyone even made a SC kit for a Fit! That's awesome. The yellow stitching looks great. And that's some really nice gear you've chosen.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> ^^^. Great job with the accent stitching, adds a nice contrast.





Truthunter said:


> Really nice upholstery work that you did. A skill I wish I had. :thumbsup:


Thanks for the compliment, unfortunately I don't have the skill or the sewing machine to do that, so I have several upholstery shop did all the above for me 




oabeieo said:


> Boosted fit! Wow!
> Tell us more about that. What supercharger is that? Did u do a motor swap?Do u have standalone management of some kind?
> I have a 12fit and am getting some sweet ideas


Hello, it is a stock Honda Fit motor with Sprintex Supercharger Kit,
but I modify the kit (remove (by machining) intake restrictor, port and polish intake elbow and manifold etc.). I don't use the piggy back that came with the kit but I use AEM F/IC-6 piggy back with boomslang wiring harness, most other on FitFreak forum use K-Tuner reflash for ECU.




Coppertone said:


> I tell you what, this man is not " Fitting around " pun intended.


Thanks Coppertone


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

josby said:


> Very cool! I agree that the industrial look of that Sony is really nice. It's crazy, I wouldn't have guessed anyone even made a SC kit for a Fit! That's awesome. The yellow stitching looks great. And that's some really nice gear you've chosen.


Thanks Josby 
I am an engineer by education and line of work,
so I always love the no nonsense industrial look,
especially a CNC Machine Parts Look that the Sony FacePlate have...
somehow, I don't like plastic, eventhough Plastic can be engineered too


----------



## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Thump!


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

BMW Alpina said:


> b. If I use analog input of the DSP, then it got to go through ADC and later DAC back so it might not be as pure/natural as I want it to be


forget the audiophoolery mumbo jumbo.. all this great gear, yet your doing yourself a massive disservice by not making an attempt to correct the cars effect on the drivers


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

BMW Alpina said:


> at least I can still brag I have one of the nicest analog crossover


never mind. now i see why. continue on


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> forget the audiophoolery mumbo jumbo.. all this great gear, yet your doing yourself a massive disservice by not making an attempt to correct the cars effect on the drivers





SkizeR said:


> never mind. now i see why. continue on


Actually,
I still going to try to attempt to correct the cars effect on the drivers with what available on the Sony Head Unit.

You see, I will use the 2 channel Front Analog Output from the Sony to drive the Front Tweeter
and use the 2 channel Rear Analog Output from the Sony to drive the Front Midrange/Midbass
This way, I can use the Sony Time Alignment capability on each 4 channel above. It might be not as effective as a full flown independent DSP unit,
but it still have some effect.
I also will try to use the built in Equalizer capability on the Sony as much as possible. (I know it is also limited but it's there)

so, see, I still attempt to do the best I can with what I will have


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Sometimes keeping things "simple" turns out to be quite a lot of work. 

So, Skizer, are you going to start the pool on what day he will post about picking up a DSP?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

rton20s said:


> Sometimes keeping things "simple" turns out to be quite a lot of work.
> 
> So, Skizer, are you going to start the pool on what day he will post about picking up a DSP?


Nope. I just wish I was content with 11 band mono eq. Especially when spending thousands on everything else.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Sometimes keeping things "simple" turns out to be quite a lot of work.
> 
> So, Skizer, are you going to start the pool on what day he will post about picking up a DSP?





SkizeR said:


> Nope. I just wish I was content with 11 band mono eq. Especially when spending thousands on everything else.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Well, for me, I always try to work step by step.
So as I had describe above I will try to utilize what I had with Sony RSX-GS9 combine with a Zapco Analog Xover and see if my ear already happy.

I certainly understand that you guys might have higher requirement from your car audio system than me, especially since you had been exposed to the rules of SQ sound competition.

I am not bound by any rules except that if my ear is happy then I am good.

I also believe to make everything as simple as possible, and I don't really see anything that would make my current plan to become a lot of work.

If later I am not happy with the result, then all I lost if just $299 for the Zapco Analog Xover (that I could easily sell at eBay for half price as used equipment if I have to) so I probably end up losing about $150.

But if I decide to buy Zapco Gen V DSP from the start, then I would already have to spend $1,500 at minumum (the HDR version),
(and no, I am not interested in buying other brand or model of DSP at this moment, if I buy, I only want to buy this Zapco Gen V because it have build in RTA and because Zapco is the only old school brand that I haven't have a chance to buy yet , so it's for sentimental reason too).

I am sure it would sound great, but then I might already be happy
without the DSP... and I would never know that unless I try with the Zapco Analog Xover without DSP first.

People learn from their mistake.
and me personally, I would rather learn it from the mistake I made on my own (if I even make a mistake by choosing full analog without DSP).
especially when I know this mistake will only cost me $150 max 

You see, I like to listen and learn from others experience,
but I am NOT going to submit to peer pressure , 
just because most people here is using DSP, 
doesn't mean that I have to blindly follow without testing first myself to see if going full analog after the Sony RSX-GS9 already make my ear happy.
Still, if I am not happy then I would surely want to test what a 
Zapco gen V DSP can do.

And although I don't have an ear of SQ judge,
I do have enough experience owning several decent car audio system in the past, (Nakamichi TD1200LTD, CD700Mk2, Alpine Digital Max headunit/3339processor with fiber optic to the CD Changer right before they came out with Ai-Net, ADS 320is speaker, Nakamichi speaker and active xover, Soundstream amp, active xover and speaker, Phoenix Gold amp, McIntosh amp, Xtant amp, AVI speaker, etc.)
and 
owning some home high audio system in the past (Audio Research Reference 1 Pre Amp, Audio Research CD2, Sonic Frontier Processor 3 DAC, Jeff Rowland MonoBlock Amplifier, Dunlavy SC-IV speaker, Cardas Golden Cross Interconnect, not to mention some more regular system like Pioneer Elite, Adcom, Yamaha, Soundcraftman, Marantz, Denon 3 head tape deck, Audio Control (yes home EQ), B&W speakers etc.). so I do have some idea on what a decent sound system sound like.
I mean all of the above is not recent... but I have some basics understanding 

I want to point out one more time that,
I am doing this system just to make me happy, 
not to make high score in SQ competition


----------



## TheHulk9er (Oct 28, 2010)

I'm sure you can get great sound out of this equipment. I do think it's funny that I have DSP and EQ at 3 levels in my car so my approach could not be more different. (Pioneer DEH-P80RS to JBL MS-8 to Helix P Six DSP MK2). Not saying one is better or worse just an observation.


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Can we see pics of the exterior? 

It sure does seem like a cool lil ride for sure. 

The only thing I absolutely can't stand about the Sony deck (and all sonys do this)is the TA controls don't act like TA. For some reason it doesn't seem to delay the signal right or something is wrong. I would love to see one on a scope to prove me wrong. 

One of my installers did a old Lincoln with that same sony and when we tryed using the TA all it did was make a Doppler type effect when we would move it but nothing ever seemed to get in proper phase. He took out a DRZ that sounded fine.

Every Sony double din TA does the same thing on cars I do installs on and it doesn't seem like it's delaying. It does something but not delay like any other deck. 

What's weird tho is the 69$ Sony that has built in listening position selector (pre set TA values) works just fine and TA works as normal.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

oabeieo said:


> Can we see pics of the exterior?
> 
> It sure does seem like a cool lil ride for sure.
> 
> ...



Hi oabeie,

Here are the exterior pictures of my Honda Fit:

Pictures during fitfreak meet few months ago:






























Front brakes upgraded 












Latest picture after I install JDP Carbon Fiber Hood wrapped with 3M White Carbon Fiber vinyl:


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Oh man that is so tight! 
Is that the Mugen front clip? 
That looks so sweet. Wheels are perfect for it. AAh dood I love it !


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

oabeieo said:


> Oh man that is so tight!
> Is that the Mugen front clip?
> That looks so sweet. Wheels are perfect for it. AAh dood I love it !


Hi oabeieo,

The Front bumper is stock USDM bumper but with JDM Honda Access front splitter 
and also JDM Honda Access central garnish (painted white) both for JDM Honda Fit "Shuttle" model that 
have the exact same front bumper as our USDM Honda Fit (after facelift)

The side skirt are MUGEN for JDM Honda Fit RS

The Rear Bumper are JDM Honda Fit RS original Rear Bumper 
with MUGEN Lower Under Spoiler (JDM Fit RS version) 
and Mugen Center Fog Light that I modify to become the 4th braking light.

Suspension are OHLINS Coilover for JDM Market plus Spoon Sway Bar and Rigid Collar and some other suspension bits and pieces...

Wheels are BBS RF-509 (Forged Wheel) size 18x7.5in 
with 215/40ZR18 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tire 
and 15mm H&R spacer.


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Oh okay, yeah I definitely have to Che k those out. 
My stock base bumper needs to go. And the side skirts I want to get something like that as well that really makes the car look sporty. 

All I did to mine was wheels and a rear spoiler. Decent but nothing like that. 


Have you seen the oem black metal window wind guards , I seen a set on eBay I liked a lot all black and aluminum not see through plastic I think that will be a for sure item as well.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I got laid off back in February, so this audio upgrade project got delayed...
and finally I just got a new and better job so project restarted 


Defi Advance RS EGT Gauge arrived,
still need to buy Oil Pressure, Oil Temp and Fuel Pressure Gauge (All Defi Advance RS) that will be installed just below the Sony Head Unit



























Preparing the Honda OEM Fit Navigation Panel, install the Bracket with 4 screws, and install the JDM RED Hazard Light:


















Install the RED JDM Honda Fit Hazard Button:
























I cut the Metra Trim Kit for Honda PILOT to cover the gap between the Sony Head Unit and the Honda Fit OEM Navigation Trim.
Notice I use the blue masking tape to mark and protect and I just cut using steel saw then later dremel to smooth it out:











Test Fit:












I see there is a gap on the top part of the trim, so I cut a thick cartoon (from Nike) and mold it to fit the gap:

























Test Fit again the Thick Cartoon on the top part of the gap:













Perfect, now I am painting the cartoon with black paint,
but later I plan to cover this with 3M 1080 BR212 BRUSHED BLACK METALLIC Vinyl:











Next is time to WRAP the Triple Gauge Pod,
oh I forgot, I had to cut the 2 lower corner of the
Triple Gauge Pod so it can sit flush and follow the corner contour
or the Honda Fit OEM Navigation Trim Opening,
that is why all the scratch on the 2 lower corner.
Now I start with wiping with Alcohol:











Here is the comparison between the
3M 1080 BR212 BRUSHED BLACK METALLIC Vinyl Vehicle
and the Sony RSX-GS9 panel, this is why I choose this color for the wrap
because hopefully it will blend in with the Sony.












Wrap it and test fit:











Cut the 3M Wrap to expose the 3 holes for the gauge and then test fit again on the trim






















I have to wait for the paint to dry on the cartoon before I can wrap it
together with the Metra Honda Pilot Trim, so in the mean time
I am fitting the AEM UEGO X-Series Volt meter Gauge to the separate
gauge pod (with yellow stitching):


























To be continued once I had wrap the Honda Pilot Trim with the Nike Cartoon Trim and also once the 3 Defi Advance RS Gauge that I just ordered arrived from Japan...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

AudioQuest RCA arrives today:



















Epoxy the extension from the cartoon to Metra Honda Pilot Trim:














More coming soon...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Final Shipment of Defi Advance RS Gauges arrives today:

Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure and Oil Temperatures:



































Another Test Fit, please disregard the Ugly Metra Trim Panel because it is under painting process so the 3M Wrap can stick to it...
otherwise if it is direct to plastic surface, I worry the 3M wrap won't stick
since the Metra Trim plastic surface is not smooth.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Dynaudio Esotar 2 110 Tweeter arrives today


----------



## TheHulk9er (Oct 28, 2010)

Too bad you had to use such cheap, crappy, equipment for your build! :laugh:  Can't wait to see the finished project!  Looks awesome so far.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

TheHulk9er said:


> Too bad you had to use such cheap, crappy, equipment for your build! :laugh:  Can't wait to see the finished project!  Looks awesome so far.


Thanks TheHulk9er 

I also had bought the Zapco ASP-X4 Crossover and waiting for it in the mail...
although I am kinda stuck now regarding my subwoofer decision,
because I prefer STEREO under seat subwoofer to be installed under both front seat (hopefully Alpine PWE-S8) so I can have full trunk space,
but I also plan to get Recaro SR-7 ASM Limited Ruby for both front seat,
and the Recaros might NOT have enough space for the Alpine PWE-S8 under seat which mean I need to buy extra sub amp (Zapco Z-1KD) and non under seat sub.

So at this moment, I need to save money to get the Recaros before I can continue buying the sub system...

I also need to know which sub system (under seat or non under seat) I am going to choose,
because if I can do underseat sub than on the amp rack (amp rack will be behind my rear seat), I only have to put the Zapco ASP-X4 and Zapco Z-150.6LX,
but if I can not use underseat sub, then I need to put both Zapco Z-150.6LX and Zapco Z-1KD Amp on that amp rack and find other place for the Zapco ASP-X4 since not enough space for all of them on the amp rack... which again mean, I better buy the Recaros first before I can buy or install those amps and crossover...

Still long way to go here


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Zapco ASP-X4 Electronic Crossover arrives today









Beautiful Finish :


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Installed all the sensors for Defi Advance RS Gauges and temporarily connect to test the functions, still undecided whether r want to use the GREEN backlighting or the Classic White backlighting...











I also see the Hazard Switch looks "unfinished" with this Leather Trim,...
so after careful thinking....
I bought a Tungsten Carbide WEDDING Ring on eBay,
not for my wife or me...
but for my JDM Hazard Light Switch Trim Ring






































They are a match made in Honda Fit










I also finished wrap the Metra Trim with 3M
then secure all the trims and gauge plate with Epoxy glue,
and here are the FINISHED Center Panel...
I can't install it yet since I need to buy more AudioQuest RCA for Rear Channel Output and also Subwoofer Output.
Just place order for 2 pair of AudioQuest Golden Gate RCA to match the 5 meters pairs of Golden Gate RCA that I bought for the front channel...
This way, I don't have to take out the Whole panel again just to connect the RCAs...
Hopefully all the AudioQuest Golden Gate arrives next week so I can install this on my car....
right now I had removed the OEM Honda Fit Audio so my dashboard have big gaping holes on it and no music for a while





















Few years ago, I upgrade my Honda Fit interior light to Acura TSX interior that have built in Home Link Garage Door Opener Module plus the sunglasses compartment.
so I already run the wiring from the built in Microphone that inside the Acura TSX Home Link module,
but I think the Mic from Sony RSX-GS9 is superior,
so I decided to tear apart the Acura TSX Home Link module and install Sony RSG-GX9 Microphone...
While doing it, I got carried away and decide to play with some painting...
so this is still work in progress because the paint need 7 days to cure...
here are some pictures from the start:

Acura TSX Interior Light:

















Take Apart the Home Link Module, and took out the Honda OEM Microphone:



























Using Dremel Cut the OEM Honda / Acura Microphone Attachement and use Epoxy to attached Sony Microphone base:



































Test Fit:


















Decide to play with some paints, and the rest is to be continued







:


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Remove the Honda OEM Factory USB terminal inside the glove box and run the 
Sony RSX-GS9 Extension wire USB Terminal (connected to the Rear USB port of Sony RSX-GS9):












and 

Morel Hybrid Integra 602 Coaxial arrived today for Rear Fill Speaker:


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Need to redone the paint on the interior light/Home Link Garage Door Opener unit so have to wait another week for it to dry, then I can run the Sony RSX-GS9 Microphone wiring through it.

The "Final Edition" Emblem arrived today and put it on for mock up:
(this will match the other "Final Edition" Emblem at my carbon fiber hood:


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Dynaudio Esotar2 650 Midbass ordered,
Also ordered many size of Stainless Steel Socket Metric Bolt, Nut Insert, Washer etc...
Hopefully the Weatherproof socket arrive tomorrow so I can install the head unit soon...
The Sony RSX GS-9 specifically ask for Direct connection to battery if the original fuse for the OEM head unit is only 10amperes since the Sony RSX-GS9 power supply had 15ampere fuse on it, even the wiring size of the Sony RSX-GS9 Power Supply is larger than the OEM Honda head unit wiring which I find quite strange since the Honda OEM head unit came with 4 channel amplifier...
anyway will not risk it and will connect the Sony RSX-GS9 directly to battery that is why I need the weatherproof connector so I can just unplug the socket if I need to remove the Sony RSX-GS9 for some reason...
Can't wait for more part to arrive so I move forward


----------



## a5150g (Jan 31, 2017)

subbed


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I decided to go to different direction for my Interior Light finish...
so I peel off all the blue paint using Brake Cleaner (Asetone) then wrap it with 3M Carbon Fiber Wrap and I just finished installing it...
well the HomeLink unit still painted RED...
Now I finally have my functioning Garage Door Opener again after more than 2 weeks without it









The most important thing is the Sony Microphone now installed at the PERFECT location to pick up my voice during Handsfree phone function,
exactly where OEM Honda Mic use to and have clear line of sight and it's direction can be adjusted if necessary











Here are the process pictures:





























































and Installed:

























I will start soldering the wiring for the Sony RSX-GS9 Head Unit and Defi Advance RS Gauges tonight so tomorrow I can install them on my car


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

That looks really sharp, I can't wait to see that Sony in your dash.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> That looks really sharp, I can't wait to see that Sony in your dash.


Thanks Coppertone 

I had been spending the past weeks preparing the wiring harness for the head unit.

I bought Metra Head Unit Harness Adapter (both male and female),
but I bought 2 male adapter so I can sacrifice one and get the pin inside,
since Metra Harness Adapter left the pin for the Steering Wheel Integration Empty.

So here is me dremeling one male Metra harness adapter socket to extract the pins:




















Inserting the PIN extracted into the socket:










Figuring out which wire going into which pin by looking at my old note:














Then, I also need to fix the male harness that is part of the car wiring from factory. I modified (tap) using butt connector to tap into speaker wiring (long time ago) because at that time, I don't have garage so I can't solder them and have to use butt connector to tap signal for a powered sub...
I remove all those butt connector and resoldered them just to make it better. I will utilize the Honda OEM speaker for a while until I received my Dynaudio midbass, so actually I don't really need to resoldered them...
it's just that I feel like I need to make it perfect...












oh, also fix the Antenna Power Supply wiring that was tapped with butt connector too in the past:











All harness ready and protected by wire loom and 3M Super 88 tape,
so wiring looks like it came from Honda factory wiring:











Oh, I also use Hella Relay (fused too on both trigger and supply) to drive all Remote On cables, this way, I won't have to worry if the head unit Remote On signal/amp is not strong enough...
then I find a good place to securely bolt the relay to the M5 screw that hold the trim inside the dashboard 










and.......
The Dynaudio Emblem arrives from Germany, even before the Dynaudio Esotar2 650 MidBass arrived 

I am going to install this Dynaudio Emblem on the Head Unit Trim and also on the Honda Factory Door Grill
but if I need to modified the door grill, I also already order Dynaudio MW-162 Grill









need to modified with Dremel so it can be double tape to the Head Unit Trim:













































All wiring connected to Sony Head RSX-GS9,

on first picture, you can see all the wiring/plug including Audio Quest Golden Gate's RCA... they are nice RCA... (I also protect them with wire loom)

on second picture you can see how I also put lots of foam padding inside the
hole for head unit and you can also see the large power supply feeding
the Sony RSX-GS9:



















Install everything to dashboard,
turn out because the leather were thick, it make the safety screw position
move forward about 5mm so I need to take out everything and enlarge
the hole on the Honda bracket so I can get the M5 bolt goes through
and screwed to hold the whole head unit bracket.
I also change the bolt from regular phillips/8mm hex bolt to M5 stainless steel SOCKET bolt.













then install the Dynaudio Emblem to make it look like it came from factory
with Dynaudio system







:





























Then turn on the Defi Gauges to test function and programming of the gauges Peak/Warn value (I love how they light up







)

I test with Green backlighting for Advance RS gauges :





















But I like the soft white backlighting better:


















So Soft white it is:



















Now, I am going to use the rest of the weekend to install the 12v supply
from battery to the Sony RSX-GS9 and also put the OEM Honda Heat Unit in the trunk to function as Power Amp for now until I buy Zapco Z-150.6LX.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Today I am doing the wiring for the 12V from Battery to Sony RSX-GS9 Power Supply and to the Remote One RELAY Circuit Power In,

I use dedicated 4AWG line directly from Battery (I also have a second 4AWG line already prepared for the Zapco Z-150.6LX later).

The dedicated 4AWG line for the Sony RSX-GS9 will also power the stereo Under seat subwoofer later that is why I need to prepare from now with Fuse/Distribution Block.

I choose EFX Fuse Distribution Block again, and located on the kick panel below the dashboard (under A Pillar):











Then I test by powering on the Sony RSX-GS9 for the first time


















Everything is good, but no sound of course because I do not have the
Zapco Z-150.6LX yet...
So I use the Front Channel Output from Sony RSX-GS9, run the RCA to the rear,
then use converter from RCA to mini stereo jack and I plug it in to 
Stock Honda Fit Head Unit AUX input which accept mini stereo jack.

Then I use the rear 4AWG line dedicated for the Zapco Z-150.6LX to power the stock Honda Fit Head Unit, and use remote power on output
from Sony RSX-GS9 to ACC input on the Honda Fit Head Unit,
this way that Honda Fit stock Head Unit will turn on and turn off following Sony RSX-GS9









I then connect the Honda Fit Stock Head Unit Speaker Output back to
Stock Front Speaker...



















Later I will put this Honda Fit OEM Head Unit in the trunk of course and not at rear seat,
this way, I can listen to music again.
As soon as my Dynaudio Esotar2 650 Mid-Bass arrived, I will change
the front channel with Dynaudio Esotar2 2 way system using Morel Hybrid Integra 602 Passive Xover.
Then only after I bought the Zapco Z-150.6LX will I change again and go full active for front channel, and install the Morel Hybrid Integra 602 system for rear speaker...


anyway,... I decide to turn on everything and use my iPhone Bluetooth as the source...











Immediately, I can hear the difference... it is really night and day...
All this time, I always use a cheap bluetooth module to my iPhone as source music connected to the Honda Stock Head Unit Aux In...

It's been a long long time since I have a sound system this nice...
and this is still with stock Head Unit and Stock speaker...

This past 10 years had been very hard for me...
and to be able to listen to a very nice sounding sound system again
It literally bring smoke in my eyes...

I am very happy and emotional now...
but it's true that as long as you don't give up, 
you will get there somehow


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Mugen Honda Fit Sports Luggage Mat Kit for Honda Fit GK (year 2015 above) arrives today,
I already have the GE Version (for year 2013 and older),
but this GK Version now came with extra mats to cover the back of rear seat,
it even have 2 more smaller mats to cover the trunk floor extension...

I am going to have an amp rack bolted to the back of the rear seat,
and since I am not good with carpet upholstery to cover the amp rack (too lazy to learn







),
I try to figure out a way to cover not only the amp rack but also the power wiring, signal (RCA) wiring etc for the amp...
so I see this Mugen Honda Fit Sports Luggage Mat Kit for Honda Fit GK and I decide
to use those extra mats covering the back of rear seat to cover my amp rack
































I also check and the Zapco Z-150.6LX is in back order (the latest version with the Gold RCA and Metal Gain Potentiometer)...
so I need to wait a bit before I can order the last piece of equipment needed which is this power amp...


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

My Zapco amp like that came in last week. I can’t wait to do a build with it.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> My Zapco amp like that came in last week. I can’t wait to do a build with it.


HI Coppertone,
is your Zapco the Z-150.6LX?
and is it the new version with Gold RCA?
Where do you buy it? 
Could you please take a picture of the Gold RCA?
Thanks


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

BMW Alpina said:


> HI Coppertone,
> is your Zapco the Z-150.6LX?
> and is it the new version with Gold RCA?
> Where do you buy it?
> ...


Not coppertone, but I can probably help you out with a photo.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Not coppertone, but I can probably help you out with a photo.


Thank You rton20s, the gold RCA make it looks even nicer and so does the metal potentiometer


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

One of the best feature of Sony RSX-GS9 is of course the Sabre ES9018S digital-to-analog converter (DAC), which only accessible via the Micro USB port (USB-DAC input).

I had bought many type of Micro USB to Lightning adapter from Amazon,
but NONE of them works... the Sony RSX-GS9 show "no device" and the Apple iPhone don't even get any charging...

Thanks to the information I received from fellow member at diymobileaudio forum:
a. Karanbhatia
b. benny

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...iphone-ipad-lighting-connector-micro-usb.html

I bought the Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter directly from Apple yesterday morning, and voila,... it arrive today

here is the link:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...?afid=p231|camref:1011l7vU&cid=AOS-US-AFF-PHG























and now it works
















This adapter had 2 connector at the bottom, one is lightning connector input that function as CHARGER Input to Charge the iPhone/iPad and also CHARGE the ADAPTER itself, yes the Adapter need power input to work,
the second one is regular USB Output which function as data output to the Micro USB at Sony RSX-GS9 USB DAC port.

I can hear the sounds is even better than using the USB 1/USB 2 port,
the only downside is,
I can NOT change track from the steering wheel button,
I can only change the music track from the iPhone App itself...

so apparently the Micro USB connection is just pure data from music connection but don't have control connection...

I plan to use iPad as source later anyway, so this would not be a problem
since the iPad will have large screen and the change track button will be easy to access.

Very happy with the Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter !


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I just return from trips to Supermarket,
manage to play around with the time alignment setup while waiting for my wife









Turn out it is very easy to use,
so each 4 channel (Front/Rear/Left/Right) and Subwoofer can have their position adjusted with range between 1cm to 350cm from your listening position, at the increment of 1cm... that is very precise !!!

I also updated my firmware to version 12, I think that is why I can also adjust the subwoofer position even in USB-DAC input mode, while the owner manual say, the sub position is not available during USB-DAC input mode...

This way I am now sure I don't need DSP anymore for time alignment...
Because I am going to use the Front Channel (Left/Right) to drive Front Tweeter
and Rear Channel (Left/Right) to drive Front Mid-Bass


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

That fit just gets nicer and nicer , 

I wish I had the big bucks to do all that to mine.
Super nice .....


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Can you band pass the rears?

Does sub channel have t/a in stereo or mono?


----------



## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

This is the best build I've seen. I wish I could hear that Sony myself 

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

oabeieo said:


> That fit just gets nicer and nicer ,
> I wish I had the big bucks to do all that to mine.
> Super nice .....


Thanks oabeieo,I really want to finish all the modification asap so I can stop spending money on my Honda Fit 



Gary Mac said:


> Can you band pass the rears?
> Does sub channel have t/a in stereo or mono?


Hi Gary Mac,
I can band pass the Rear Channel if I want to by using the Zapco ASP-X4 Analog Crossover but not from the Sony RSG-GS9.
Please review the picture below of my Zapco ASP-X4,
If you want it bandpass for rear channel then use Channel 3, select as bandpass and you can also select either Front or Rear Channel Input as the Input for Channel 3.

The subwoofer output on the Sony RSX-GS9 can be selected between Stereo or Mono Sub, but from what I see so far, the time alignment is for both left and right at the same time (or mono). Still because now I plan to put two 10" powered JL Audio subwoofer under the rear seat, the distance between those two sub to my listening position is not much difference so I think I should be fine, if not then I will make it MONO sub configuration...















alex1002 said:


> This is the best build I've seen. I wish I could hear that Sony myself
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


Thanks alex1002, this Sony head unit really sounds wonderful,
last time I am this happy with a head unit was 12 years ago when I have my Nakamichi CD700Mk2


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Update:
The only major equipment I had not bought is the Power Amplifier...

and

*I just received some NEW "Technical info" *

so I will have to wait until around January 2018 before I can purchase the power amplifier that "I want" 

in the meantime, 
the Dynaudio Esotar2 E650 Mid-bass is already on its way, hopefully it will be here by next week so I can install them (power them using stock Honda Fit Head Unit).


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

BMW Alpina said:


> Thanks oabeieo,I really want to finish all the modification asap so I can stop spending money on my Honda Fit
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response. I was hoping the sub TA was in stereo so I could use it as a L/R mid channel and then slave sub off that channel to a sub amp.


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

What level of audio resolution have you used with the USB and Mini-usb input? Do you notice a difference in SQ between the two inputs with the same res audio? Interested in the upsampling claims.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Gary Mac said:


> What level of audio resolution have you used with the USB and Mini-usb input? Do you notice a difference in SQ between the two inputs with the same res audio? Interested in the upsampling claims.


On the Micro USB, I already use (upsampled to) DSD 5.6Mhz with the Onkyo App on my iPhone. not really much different for now compare to regular USB input (which is also upsampled)... mainly because I still using the stock Honda Speaker and Head Unit as power...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

This is a Great Weekend since many parts for my Honda Fit arrived...

Few minutes ago, USPS delivered this


----------



## TheHulk9er (Oct 28, 2010)

I love my Esotar2 drivers! I have the 650's in my front doors and the 430 in my center. Amazing drivers! You should be very happy.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

TheHulk9er said:


> I love my Esotar2 drivers! I have the 650's in my front doors and the 430 in my center. Amazing drivers! You should be very happy.


Thanks TheHulk9er 
Next step is buying the hardware (bolt/nut to mount the speaker to the door metal and MDF), Audioquest speaker cable and rest of RCAs plus Power Amp & underseat subwoofer... hopefully I can buy all of them in the next 3 months time... at least that is my target based on my cash flow/allocated budget


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I open the Zapco ASP-X4 Electronic Crossover because I am curios what kind of op-amp inside:




























































so it contains 
29 unit of Analog Devices OP275G
2 unit of Texas Instrument TL074C

I am thinking of upgrading all OP275G to Muses 8920 to match the op-amp in the Sony RSX-GS9...
and upgrading the TL074C to OPA1644 (per Texas Instrument Recommendation)
but the op-amp in the Zapco ASP-X4 are all small packaging surface mounted version... 
so it might be hard to solder this... hmmmmmm
I wonder if there is someone out there who offer service for
upgrading surface mounted opamp... and I wonder how much they
charge per op-amp since there are 29 op-amp here...

or I just need to do more research on the right solder equipment to do this myself...
hmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

There are a few amp repair techs who used to frequent DIYMA. Doubt very many of them are around anymore. I know "daveds50" has the equipment and skills to take care of surface mount devices. I'm sure others can as well. Best bet would be to PM, or email them directly if possible.


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm diggin' all the customization!


----------



## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

pretty nice install so far i just cant get my head around the h/u choice and analog crossover , oh and the audi and evo badges ? nice equipment though and props for the build .


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> There are a few amp repair techs who used to frequent DIYMA. Doubt very many of them are around anymore. I know "daveds50" has the equipment and skills to take care of surface mount devices. I'm sure others can as well. Best bet would be to PM, or email them directly if possible.


Thanks rton20s,
I had been looking at several SMD desoldering and soldering tutor on youtube lately, it seemed it is not that hard... most likely I will try to do it myself and if it is too troublesome, I will try to contact daveds50 per your recommendation. Thanks again.





BP1Fanatic said:


> I'm diggin' all the customization!


Thanks BP1 Fanatic, appreciate it.






audirsfaux said:


> pretty nice install so far i just cant get my head around the h/u choice and analog crossover , oh and the audi and evo badges ? nice equipment though and props for the build .


From my research, this Sony RSX GS-9 head unit have the best sound quality among production head unit today, plus it's own excellent DAC chips will have maximum resolution if I use analog x-over.
Because if I connect using the fiber optic it will not preserve the resolution since the fiber optic out cannot output the full resolution.
Beside I don't see too much advantage of DSP "in my Specific Application".
I have post my reasoning in the early part of this thread,
basically the Sony RSX-GS9 have enough time alignment adjustment without the need for DSP and I don't really need a true flat response EQ, 
so I don't think I going to need EQ adjustment from DSP and the Sony
also already have basic EQ adjustment that is more than enough for me,
since I will leave it flat anyway.

I have confidence that once I finished my install, my car audio will sound excellent, again I don't think it will win in any sound competition though...
because I am not looking for winning score following text book in competition judging rule,
I just need to make my ear happy 

But I can understand why you confuse with my choice of analog head unit
especially due to the trend right now for every body to use DSP...
which is of course works well for other head unit that do not have 
as good DAC as the Sony,
but
I don't understand why you are confuse with my choice of Head Unit?... 

Regarding the badges, they are just badges and it don't say Audi or Mitsubishi on it 

My car had Sprintex Supercharger and the nicest design out there for Supercharged emblem is Audi's so I use it.

and that "Final Edition" badges came from Mitsubishi Evo,
but the word itself "Final Edition" recently used in some VW and Mercedes AMG too... so I just "borrowing" the font hahaha...

Like I said before, Good Artist Copy, Great Artist Steal 

As long as it looks good, and I am happy then I am Happy


----------



## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

Sorry to be asking stupid question here. But running this headunit without amp would it make any sense at all?

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

alex1002 said:


> Sorry to be asking stupid question here. But running this headunit without amp would it make any sense at all?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


Hi alex1002,
here is my current situation:
a. I need to wait until January 2018 at the earliest before the 6 channel amp with the exact spec that I want released for sale,
I was about to buy the Zapco Z-150.6LX last month, 
but I received a NEW TECHNICAL information that something good is coming around January 2018 
and because I am planning to keep this car audio system forever 
and not planning to upgrade once I am done,
I rather wait before I buy my amplifier 
(note this new Tech Info is also the reason why its inspired me to start thinking of upgrading my Zapco analog xover to match this new amp).

b. Still, I do want to start installing parts one by one when I have free time during weekend or at night after work,
and I also need those 3 Defi gauges below the head unit to monitor the health of my supercharged engine 
so I decide to install the Sony RSX-GS9 now in combination with those 3 Defi Gauges right now.

c. I also need to have bluetooth hands free and I do want to listen to music while I drive... 
because January 2018 is still months away 
and that if there is no further delay with the new amp...

So my temporary solution is to connect the Front Channel Output of the Sony RSX-GS9 using RCA to 3.5mm mini jack cable 
and connect it to the stock Honda Fit Head Unit Aux Input, 
then I use the Stock Honda Fit Head Unit/Amp as the power amp. 
and use it to power the stock front Honda Fit speaker, 
I currently hide this stock Honda Fit Heat Unit in the trunk.

Even without proper power amp and proper speaker
it already sounds much better that stock so this is already improvement in sound quality...
must be because of the Sony RSX-GS9 DAC.
I can hear details in the songs that I never heard before in my stock Honda system...
not to mention much better Bluetooth handsfree system than my old cheap bluetooth add on module 

d. I was planning to start installing the Dynaudio Esotar 2 650 Mid Bass and Dynaudio Esotar 2 110 Tweeter 
combining it with the passive crossover from the Morel Hybrid Integra 602 asap, 
while still using the Honda stock head unit as the power amp,
but I am currently very busy and right now I am out of state (job related),
so it might be a while and I might just wait until I buy the 6 channel amp that I want in January before I even continue with the install...

So that is my story... for now


----------



## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

BMW Alpina said:


> Thanks rton20s,
> I had been looking at several SMD desoldering and soldering tutor on youtube lately, it seemed it is not that hard... most likely I will try to do it myself and if it is too troublesome, I will try to contact daveds50 per your recommendation. Thanks again.
> 
> 
> ...


i understand , this whole hobby is all subjective to your taste , no one can tell you that Your build dosent sound good to you . its all about the journey and spending way to much money and time but hey we love it ! , my last car was a evo x final edition and my current car is a 2015 audi s4 supercharged , so thats how i knew where the badges came from . good luck !


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

By the way,
I think I never post the extensive details of the sound deadening that I did back in2013

so below is the copy and paste of my Sound Deadening thread at Fitfreak forum that I post more than 4 years ago...

so pardon me if some of the info below is no longer accurate because I had further modified my car a lot since than or if some pictures are missing because I simply just copy and paste my old thread:

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd...stic-foam-mlv-closed-ceal-foam-cld-tiles.html





*Sound Deadening (Acoustic Foam, MLV, Closed Cell Foam, CLD Tiles)* 
Initially I was planning to do simple sound deadening with CLD tiles only.
CLD tiles is the generic name for Dynamat.

I apply my CLD tiles on my Front Door Panel while I was doing the JDM LED Blinker, Folding Door Mirror,
but the amazing result of the CLD tiles made me want to do much more,...
I want to do a complete sound deadening for my car and do it correctly.

Some Fit owner here had been doing a lot of sound deadening project on their car,, but so far I don't see them using acoustic foam and some times they don't do the full layer by layer. 

My plan are,
Open the front door panel again and add Neoprene (Closed Cell Foam) on top of the CLD tiles then add the MLV barrier on top of the Closed Cell Foam.
I will also do the same thing for the Rear Door Panel, The Rear Hatch door, The trunk panel and of course the floor of the car.

For the headliner, I only put CLD tiles and add the Neoprene (Closed Cell Foam), but NO MLV because the weight of the MLV will be too much to be glued on upside down panel.

Oh, in every empty space (like under dash board and behind trunk panel),
I will also put (JAM) as much acoustic foam as possible.
some people had used the "pillow stuffing" at this area with great success,
but I think putting an acoustic foam will result in much better sound dampening plus it will be more "fire retardant" then those walmart pillow stuffing.

Ok, first I want to show pictures of the Neoprene Closed Cell Foam and Acoustic Foam that just arrive today:


















































oh, by the way, I don't know when I can finish this project though...
because this will involve taking out all the interior panel and seat too...
hopefully I have time and patient to do this asap...
the headliner, well I think I won't do that until I have long vacation...

and below is a *copy and paste* of what I had done to the front door panel so far that I had posted on my other thread involving the JDM Door Mirror...

Sound deadening the Driver/Left Door with CLD Tiles,
I cover at least 90% of the area INSIDE the door !










After that I put Acoustic Foam BEHIND the Speaker Opening so to absorb unwanted resonance








I glue the foam using 3M Ultra 77 Glue,
I also make sure the foam only cover half the height of the speaker opening so it won't interfere with the window rolled down.





Then every large hole opening were covered with this Aluminum plate,
that I cut from a baking plate hahaha








notice one of the plate is still intact the other is what left of it











Oh, I forgot, I attached the backing plate using that 3M CALK Strip that I mention in this thread before, That 3M Calk Strip is also good to cover little gap if needed to further sealed the door !

Then on top of the aluminum plate, I cover the front side/plate of the door with more CLD tiles...but this time
I only manage to cover probably around 70% of the front door plate area 
because at first I worry the door panel might not goes back in easily if it is too thick,

I plan to buy MLV later, and I am pretty sure there is enough space to add MLV layer on top of the CLD tiles, but I will do this only after I bought my Mid Bass speaker, so I don't have to open and close the door panel too often... the clip's are easy to broke, I already broke 1 MOUNTING for the clip... but it still work fine...

After that I recover the CLD tiles with factory original plastic covering,
but I had to cut the center square piece since it is molded as a cube...
you know what I mean when you open a brand new door later












Finally, I had to cut the foam, this foam is also cube that suppose to go on top of the plastic pieces that I am talking above...
this foam is attached to the door panel...
I cut about 1/2 the height and it's fine now












then I put the door cover panel back, and test the sound of my speaker,...
it does have a little bit more bass and the midrange is less harsh now











sounddampening inside RIGHT door done,
now I am going to cover this hole:



with this aluminum sheet (cut from baking foil bought at Walmart at Cooking equipment section hahaha ):



covered both holes with aluminum sheet:





Covered with more CLD Tiles Sound dampening:




Covered back with Factory original foam:


I test my front speaker after both door covered with CLD tiles,
and now the midrange is a bit more "muffled" or not as bright as before,
but the midbass is tighter...
still, I think now I need to turn the volume knob higher for the same sound level...
so sensitivity seemed DROPPED when we add CLD tiles...
(more reason to upgrade the speaker and power amplifier, but this got to wait







) 

The Aluminum Foil (from the backing plate) is just for Backing Plate to cover the holes,
and on top of it, I put the actual sound deadening/CLD Tiles.

The CLD Tiles (the actual sound deadening) had sticky surface
that had to be attached to some hard surface, so the aluminum sheet is acting like the Fiber in Carbon Fiber mixture/composite,...
or like ReBar inside a Concrete mix...

The CLD Tiles it self had 2 surface,
one is the sticky one, and the other is the surface cover with aluminum sheet on it's own. but it is a very thin aluminum sheet so it is not strong enough... that is why I need the aluminum backing plate.

I bought my CLD tiles (popularly known as Dynamat) based from recommendation from another member here name "FIT4SPL".
and this is the place where I order them:

Car Auto Audio Sound Dampening Deadener 1 SQ FT GTmat Pro 80 Mil

I bought the 100 Square Feet Rolls like 3 months ago,
because they have very cheap special at that time,
It was only $139.98 already include shipping cost !!! 
so it was very cheap !!!
(but now the price back to regular price of $194.99)

I think 50 Square feet rolls is enough to cover the entire car,
but they have it so cheap, I could not resist buying 100 Square feet...
hopefully I can buy another car before this CLD Tiles adhesive when bad in a few years hahaha









Here is what they looks like:




now they just came out with new CLD tiles, that is even thicker at 110mil... 


I had bought the MLV sound barrier few weeks ago,
I also had bought all the glue that I am going to need,
but those stuff are at my garage and I will post picture of them later.

In the mean time,
here are the place where I got my MLV Sound Barrier and Foam:

MLV Sound Barrier:
SoundAway Barrier MLV 1#, 1/8" x 4' x 25', 100 SF, price is just $115 per roll !
SoundAway Soundproofing Mass Loaded Vinyl Noise Barrier
Black Vinyl Seam Tape Roll 2" x 108', I bought 2 roll to tape between MLV seams,
Vinyl Seam Tape

I go to their shop and pick them up myself to save shipping,
that 100 square feet of MLV were VERY HEAVY !!!
Around 100 Pounds, hopefully, I don't need to use that much to cover the entire area in my car though...
you can contact The owner directly, his name is Alex, nice guy and very knowledgeable !


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Now for the foam,
I bought them here:
Neoprene Closed Cell Foam:
*7 piece of 1/16" Neoprene Foam (REG) - SKIN 80" x 48" @$9.99 = $69.93*
Neoprene Sheets, Rubber, Poker Table Foam, Neoprene Pads

Acoustic Foam also at the foam factory:
*2 piece of 1-1/2" Charcoal Eggcrate Foam - Regular - 72" x 80" @$32.99 = $65.98*
The Foam Factory, Acoustic Foam, Sound proofing Foam, Eggcrate Foam, Eggcrate, Convoluted Foam,

When you want to buy things at Foam Factory,
you can contact: [email protected]
Jesiree give me excellent customer service !!!
Believe me when I say excellent customer service, because I need to add some order after my order almost shipped,
and Jesiree took care all the problem that came with it, and remind super friendly all the way !!!

I had done lot of research and the 2 place above are the CHEAPEST and yet they offer many item with Great Quality,
you guys can try to find other place that might be cheaper,
but somehow I think it will not be easy










Rear Hatch Door were Sound Deadened yesterday after I install my Honda H Red Emblem:

Here are the pictures:

I glue the Closed Cell Foam and MLV together using this glue,
that I bought at Home Depot (cheaper price then even Amazon).










Below are the pictures of the Closed Cell Foam (CCF) and MLV already covered with glue:


Below are the pictures of the first layer, CLD Tiles,
I then add the CCF and MLV layer on top of the CLD Tiles (again using the same glue).










Here are the CCF/MLV combo on top of the CLD Tiles:











To make sure the layer are tight, I apply Vinyl Duct Tape between the MLV seams:






















After that, I cover the entire area with Acoustic Foam,
and I use Double Layer of Acoustic Foam on the left and right compartment of the door hatch,
but on the center, I can only use single layer of Acoustic foam since
the plastic cover panel curve inward on that area:










See the center part of the door hatch, that part is the one with only SINGLE layer of acoustic foam













Yesterday I manage to finish sound deadening the entire trunk area,
here are the pictures:


First, I need to pre run the wiring for my future plan of adding The JDM Mugen LED Fog Light as part of the JDM Mugen RS Rear Lower Spoiler Package, so I run some wire from the Left Tail Light,











and goes down through the plastic grommet at the trunk floor.










as you can see, I make a hole (using blade) so the wiring (with it's plastic black jacket) goes through that black grommet:






















After that, I start covering as much area as possible with CLD Tiles:






















Notice I don't cover the rear ventilation holes (that 2 oval shape holes at the rear hatch door frame) near the door latch/lock,
because as much as I want my car to be quiet, I still want to keep all factory fresh air ventilation as free (not block) as possible.





















Then, I try to cover as many area as possible with Closed Cell Foam (CCF),
after that I add another layer of MLV as much as possible:





















Below is an example on how I spray the glue both on the CCF and the metal panel of the car (2 surface glue application):






















After that, I put as much vinyl duct tape as possible to make sure all the seams are tight:





















On some areas where there is not too much room for added thickness,
I only applied CCF only, like on the left rear panel of the trunk:











Final step is to jam in as much acoustic foam as possible on every empty space:
































I then do a test drive, 
what I feel right away even before I move the car was,
The Subwoofer BASS is now MORE POWERFUL and PRONOUNCED !
it even make the front tweeter sound less bright...
I think sooner or later I need to upgrade the Front Speakers (Midbass and Tweeter) !

When I test drive on freeway, the road noise from tire is much less now,
making the wind noise more noticeable,
plus the noise from the front area under the dashboard is more noticeable now...
Got to put some acoustic foam under the dashboard soon,
plus when I have time, I need to do the rear door, floor and headliner/roof panel too. 





Done the sound deadening for the floor and headliner (roof) yesterday at 
a car audio shop (CLD Tiles, Closed Cell Foam, and MLV Noise Barrier)

Today, I still have to go back to that shop to do my Rear Door...

My car is much quieter now,
I can hear other car's tire roar when I pass them on the freeway easily,
while before I didn't notice other's car tire roar









Here are the pictures:























































































Go back to that car audio shop today to do the rear door with CLD tiles (similar to Dynamat), CCF (Closed Cell Foam) and MLV (thick heavy vinyl),

so yes, I used 3 different layer of material on all my car interior,trunk, door and hatch door too,
plus I stuff some acoustic foam in area where there are lot of empty space at the trunk and hatch...
(except headliner cause the MLV is too heavy to stick to the roof so only CLD tiles there), 
I think this is the maximum that can be done to the interior of the car.

few months ago,
I had done the front door my self with CLD only 
and I was not willing to open the door panel again today to add CCF and MLV, until I install the front midbass there,
I was worried, opening and closing the door panel would ruin it...
but come to think of it, if it ruin, it will only broke some clips...
so in the end,

I also added layer of CCF and MLV to my front door too TODAY...

well, I don't regret my decision because
my car was quiet this morning on my way to the car audio shop,
but after finished doing all the door, my car was even more quieter 
(I test it on Freeway during my way home),...

so yes, the addition of MLV to the front door and rear door really really make the most different... 
My car is very very quiet now,
oh, when my car drove over railroad, my car actually feels much more solid too...
feels like Mercedes (the bank vault feeling), I guess all that CLD tiles on the floor of the car do make the panel
more rigid and absorb more of the impact vibration...
even the door now shuts with bank vault like sound... very solid and heavy feeling to it.

next test would be when I drive in hard rain, because after the CLD tiles, now the roof of the car feels solid 
and that should lessen the sound of the water drops during heavy rain... hopefully









basically all my sound dampening is done now, 
well, actually there is one more thing...
all I need to do is just adding more acoustic foam under the dashboard,
but I am going to do that after I install the auto tilt and auto fold JDM wiring for my door mirror


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Currently debating which amplifier I should buy...
asking for public opinion on this thread:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ax-mx4-vs-brax-gs2400-vs-zapco-z-150-6lx.html


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Did I read that correctly? You put expised open cell foam in your doors?

Have you looked in your doors since to see if there are traces of mold or anything? 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Weightless said:


> Did I read that correctly? You put expised open cell foam in your doors?
> 
> Have you looked in your doors since to see if there are traces of mold or anything?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


Hello Weightless,

I do not put foam on the front or rear door driver/passenger (with window that can be rolled down).

I put them inside my rear hatch door (sealed windows and no water can come in there).
My Honda Fit is a hatchback


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Gotcha. That makes more sense.

I'm familiar with the fit. I drive it's bigger sibling, the H-RV. 

Did you find that there was a big difference in filling that area?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Weightless said:


> Gotcha. That makes more sense.
> 
> I'm familiar with the fit. I drive it's bigger sibling, the H-RV.
> 
> ...



Hi Weightless,
Yes, big different there, the only problem is due to the weight of all those sound dampening material, now my hatchback need a bit of help to open it,
while when it was standard, the gas filled strut will open it by itself and fast..
but so far the gas filled strut still able to hold the hatch in open position so it's still ok 

but the most different I can feel is when you apply the multiple layer of sound dampening to the entire floor of the car...
the car just drive differently after that, it is much more rigid and solid over bump...

Honda Fit is really cheap car and very noisy too, with all this sound dampening the car now feel/drive like a bit more expensive car


----------



## hockeythug (Oct 25, 2017)

Nice build


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Nice work. 

They do make replacement struts that can support higher weight. You might want to ask around a Fit forum to see if anyone has recommendations. I can imagine that it would be a pain not having be supported.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

hockeythug said:


> Nice build





Weightless said:


> Nice work.
> 
> They do make replacement struts that can support higher weight. You might want to ask around a Fit forum to see if anyone has recommendations. I can imagine that it would be a pain not having be supported.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


Thanks guys,

by the way, I notice the photobucket link with pictures of my car on first page no longer work,
so I try again, here is the picture of my Honda Fit:


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

In order for me to be able to start using the Dynaudio Esotars that I already bought few months ago...
and
As a Gap Stop Method until I get a proper amp (ie. Brax MX4),

I decided to buy a brand new but cheap Sony XM-GS4 amp 
(well it's still part of Sony Hi-Res Car Audio lineup and flag ship line of Sony car audio amp line so I think it is ok...)
It's a 4 channel 
but run it in bridged 2 channel configuration for 160 W x 2channel RMS at 4ohms
Installed it just few days ago,
and currently still using the stock Honda Fit OEM speaker (2 way passive front channel only).
The sound improve again, there is solid midbass that I never knew can come out of
stock OEM Honda Fit 6.5in door speaker...

I also just ordered all the screw,nut,bolt, AudioQuest speaker wire and other parts I need to install the Dynaudio Esotars. Hopefully can install them in 2 to 3 weeks time after all parts arrived...
And I am sure there will be a lot of improvement with the Dyns...
Can't hardly wait

















even the way I install it, its kinda "emergency style"


----------



## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

You are breaking my heart. This is the best setup I've seen by far. I would really enjoy listening to something like it in person one day. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

A lot of parts like the Rest of Audioquest Golden Gate RCA and Audioquest X2 speaker cables, etc. to install the speaker on the dashboard and door start arriving,
but many still on the way, I am talking about the all the stainless steel socket hex, threaded wood insert, threaded rivet nut, etc...
I also still waiting for some aluminum disc so I can install the Dynaudio Tweeter Mounting Pod on the same location as the current OEM Honda dash tweeter...

but here are two eye candy that just arrive and ready to be use:

Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable to Lightning (to power the Apple camera adapter) 
and Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable to Micro USB (to transfer data from iPhone to the USBDAC input)

Oh also I buy a small plastic cover to cover the front USB port next to the USBDAC on the Sony RSX-GS9, this way, nobody who happened to ride with me
can just plug their USB cable to charge their phone, because I worry
they scratch the Sony RSX-GS9 front plate while plugging their USB cable.
Of course I had prepared an extra USB charger for my guest / client who ride with me,
so they can still charge their phone.






























v


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Rest of Audioquest Golden Gate RCA's for the underseat subwoofer and from Active Xover to the Power Amp,...
Audioquest X2's speaker cable Grey and White color to differentiate between
Tweeter and Midbass...
Pangea RCA 1 Male to 2 Female adapter, they are beautifully made...
some Rockford Fosgate power wire 1/0 AWG because the Brax MX4 will need 1/0AWG terminal and currently I had run only 4 AWG to the trunk...

oh, I also in the process of ordering plenty of TechFlex Sleeving


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I had bought an aluminum Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter Pod from Germany (eBay seller), and this tweeter suppose to be mount on the A-Pillar,
which mean I need to take out the A-Pillar and drilled it...
but I don't really like the way it mounted there... and I don't really like to drill the A-Pillar...

so I had been thinking of any way to mount the tweeter on top of the current tweeter holes...
At first, I thought just took out the current tweeter from the current tweeter grill, and then just drill the grill to hold the Esotar Tweeter pod, until I realise,
the grill was too thin and won't hold the Esotar pod in place if somehow there is a big accident (knock on wood)...

so after thinking and thinking, and researching and looking at any method.

I found that I should use a large ring shape metal base on top of the current hole left by the OEM tweeter, use a HOLLOW threaded bar that will pass the wiring into the pod but also will hold the tweeter pod, the ring shape metal base, and also anchor to another plate below to hold on to the dashboard...
the only problem is The German Tweeter Pod use a M10 x 1.0 FINE pitch Metric Thread...
and it is very hard to find a HOLLOW Threaded bar with a FINE Pitch Metric Thread... but I am lucky enough to find it on eBay (from China/Hong Kong)









Today the only parts that had arrived is the Metal Base ring shape...

Here is the pictures so all of you can get an idea of what my vision is,
yes, I still need to drill through that metal base (aluminum), I had bought a TAP for that thread too.
That Metal Base is actually aluminum disc hardware for Glass Table


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I decided to start measuring the space in the door to make sure the magnet of the Midbass do not hit the window glass when it's roll down.

After taking out the door panel, the Honda OEM Midbass is now accessible:











It was hold by a single screw !!!... I guess Honda really want to save time when building this car on production line...


Now comparison between OEM and Dynaudio Esotar2 650 Midbass...
(or I should say no comparison







):




























I am going to test fit with Dynaudio original MDF spacer and turn out,
the magnet won't even clear the metal panel of the door,
so later, I need to cut/trim the metal panel of the door:




























I mark the area on the metal panel that I need to cut/trim,
then I measure the depth/clearance between the surface of the metal panel to the glass/window when it's rolled down:











It's 50.92mm...

so now it's time to measure the depth of the Dynaudio magnet:










It's 54.51mm, please note this is after using the MDF spacer,
if do not use MDF spacer, according to Dynaudio brochure, the mounting depth is 67mm, which mean the MDF spacer cleared about 12.5mm

OK... this is a problem since the clearance to the glass/window is only 50.92mm... so 54.51mm - 50.92mm = 3.59mm which mean I need to add about 5mm more space... 
I think I am going to use 2 ply of rubber that should give over 5mm extra space between the MDF spacer and the door metal surface...

I found more issue...
the original Honda speaker outer ring shape like a tear drop and
it will goes into the same tear drop space in the door panel,
with foam surround kind of sealed it right behind the door panel grill opening:


















Now comparing the thickness of the original Honda OEM midbass spacer vs. Dynaudio MDF spacer...
wow, they are about the same thickness...
still due to the shape, I will need to trim the plastic part on the door panel,
so later I can close the door panel shut...
oh, not to mention I will have 5mm rubber beneath the Dynaudio MDF spacer...

I also compare the diameter between the original Dynaudio MDF spacer and a custom CNC MDF spacer made for Esotar2 650 but NOT original from Dynaudio...
looks like the NON original MDF spacer is smaller in overall diameter and also about 1mm thicker !!!
so the non original is a better choice for my application...
because that mean less trimming on the plastic part of the door panel so it can snugly fit behind the original door speaker grille...




























































After I do all the above,
I realized, I still need to buy M4 Socket Hex bolt for the Esotar2 650 Midbass install to the door, and M3 socket Hex bolt for the Esotar2 110 Tweeter.

Funny things is, this past few days there is a website from UK
Accu Group that advertise bolt on my webpage all the time...
like it's reading my mind that I am going to need bolt,
so I place an order with them...

The M4 socket is 40mm length A2 (304) Stainless Steel
while the M3 socket is 10mm length A4 (316) Stainless Steel with Black Coating (since this will be visible to my eye), I want a Black color bolt...

Ok,... to be continued...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

so I found a solution to add thickness to the Dynaudio MDF spacer...
and also help SEAL the speaker/MDF/door metal surface...

I do research on several Gasket material, including Buna, EPDM, Neoprene, even PTFE







,
but I decided EPDM is perfect for my application...
so I bought a ready made with PERFECT diameter to fit the Dynaudio Esotar2 650,
I will need 2 ply of this EPDM gasket to be over 5mm extra space that I need so the speaker magnet clear the door window when it is rolled down...
and the gasket just arrived today:


































TechFlex also arrived:























Now, I already bought and waiting for this items to arrive:
a. Electric Hot Knife so I can cut the TechFlex properly 
b. The Aluminum RING for The Dynaudio Esotar2 110 Tweeter Pod, order from the German Supplier again at eBay
c. The Stainless Steel Bolt coated in Black Color from Accu Group in UK
d. Several Rockford Fosgate 8awg wire kit just in case if I need 8awg, 10awg wire kit for the Zapco Xover, distribution block, circuit breaker, battery terminal so I can relocate the battery to the trunk
f. ICT Billet Optima Battery Tray
g. Optima Battery D34/78 Yellow Top that will replace the stock battery and will be located in the trunk, thus near the power amp...

Once I had all the above, then I can finally install the Dynaudio Esotar...
I think I should get all the above in about 10 days to 2 weeks from now...


----------



## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

mice car and nice work on install!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

LBaudio said:


> mice car and nice work on install!


Thank You LBaudio 
more parts arrrive today but still not enough to start install again 

ICT Billet Aluminum Tray for Optima Battery etc...
also bought that Makita LED flashlight to help during install...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I spent last weekend finding the right spot for the 1/0AWG power cable to go through the firewall. I also use Stinger PG34 1/0AWG Firewall bushing.

Oh, also Techflex the Rockford Fosgate 1/0AWG power cable to make it look pretty like eye candy



























Here is the area of the firewall that I can find ideal to drill (that is free from obstruction in the interior side, still far enough from exhaust manifold and safe). Then to make sure it is waterproof, I spray with foam (later I paint the foam white but I forgot to take picture after I paint that foam white).

















Here is where I am going to connect, to the main circuit breaker right after alternator:












and here are where it came out on the otherside of the firewall, just right under the A/C blower on the passenger side foot well:



















Will continue this weekend


----------



## HeyWaj10 (Nov 14, 2011)

This build is super impressive - would love to be able to go all out like that!

One question: is the foil used to cover the large door hole stiff enough to not act as a passive radiator? That stuff flexes pretty easily, so just curious how that turns out in your experience.



BMW Alpina said:


> By the way,
> Then every large hole opening were covered with this Aluminum plate,
> that I cut from a baking plate hahaha
> 
> ...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

HeyWaj10 said:


> This build is super impressive - would love to be able to go all out like that!
> 
> One question: is the foil used to cover the large door hole stiff enough to not act as a passive radiator? That stuff flexes pretty easily, so just curious how that turns out in your experience.



Hello, Thanks for your kind words,
I covered the aluminum foil with CLD to make it non resonance, thicker and stiff, plus when the door panel were back on, there is no gap at all which make it not able to flex/move, below is the picture of the aluminum foil covered with CLD:


----------



## HeyWaj10 (Nov 14, 2011)

BMW Alpina said:


> Hello, Thanks for your kind words,
> I covered the aluminum foil with CLD to make it non resonance, thicker and stiff, plus when the door panel were back on, there is no gap at all which make it not able to flex/move, below is the picture of the aluminum foil covered with CLD:


That's awesome, and really is a cost-effective way to go about it vs. plexiglass or PVC to cover the hole. I guess the only potential drawback to this is that if someone ever needed to access the space behind there, you'd have to replace with new material once it was all ripped off.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Is that the Black/Gold techflex from furryletters on ebay? I was thinking about picking some up for my build revisions to match my amps.


----------



## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

Most amazing build still. Would love to hear it with my ears. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Is that the Black/Gold techflex from furryletters on ebay? I was thinking about picking some up for my build revisions to match my amps.


Hello, 
Yes, that is the Black/Gold TechFlex and I bought it from FurryLetters.
Those TechFlex are really nice, really eye candy


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Weekend update








Today I had some progress...
Techflex The AudioQuest X-2 Speaker Cable, The Audioquest X-2 in White color will be for Tweeter, the Grey Audioquest X-2 will be for the Midbass and the Yellow TechFlex indicated left channel, the Red TechFlex indicate right channel:























Start installing the Dynaudio Esotar2 650 Midbass on the door...
First step cut the metal mounting tab for stock Honda speaker to clear
the Dynaudio much larger metal basket.



























I realize I should use Dremel instead of the large Makita Grinder,
so on the driver side door, I use Dremel and it's much better...
I later put epoxy to cover those run away slit that I accidentally cut using the Makita grinder....

Now, times to drill the holes for the speaker mounting screw...

first I use the Dynaudio MDF mounting plate with screw installed
as marking tools/template,
then I marks the holes location:



















Picture below is when I use Dremel for the driver side, much better clean
cutting:















I can use a self tapping screw but... I want it to be as "proper" as possible, so I am using Rivet for M4 screw




























Drill the holes with 6mm metric drill then install the rivet (I use rivet install tools so it's easy process):











Then I use glue to bond the EPDM gasket (that also act as extra spacer
so the magnet of the Dynaudio will clear the window when rolled down)...
I need 3 ply of EPDM gasket to get the clearance:

























The Screw that I used are Stainless Steel Socket Hex Screw,
and I also use Stainless Steel Washer and Nylon Washer so
it won't scratch the Dynaudio Esotar2 650 mounting holes



















then time to start soldering the wires...

























Mounted on the door... (notice this only have 2 ply of EPDM gasket)
and it's barely rub the window, but tomorrow I will add 3rd ply of EPDM
gasket... to tired now...













































Need to grind inner part of the door panel so the door panel can be close and clear the MDF mounting spacer:













That's it for today... going to sleep, and wake up early tomorrow
and continue...
hopefully I can finish the Tweeter Pod install and run all the wire to the back of the car tomorrow...


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Very nice and I am glad to see your heart is going into this build as well as the car. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

That midbass install came out nice!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

alex1002 said:


> Most amazing build still. Would love to hear it with my ears.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk





Coppertone said:


> Very nice and I am glad to see your heart is going into this build as well as the car.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





BP1Fanatic said:


> That midbass install came out nice!



Thanks everyone for the kind words...

more update today:




I want to make sure everything is tight like new,
so I replace every single Plastic Clip that hold the door panel with a new one:











I also took this opportunity to change the grey USDM door handle with
JDM SILVER Door handle from Japan Market only Honda Fit Shuttle




















Then I add even more sound deadening on BOTH the Metal Door
and the Plastic Door Panel...


















And as the Final Finishing Touch... 
I bought original Dynaudio emblem (OEM parts from VW) and install it on the grill, the result really nice, like this car came from factory with Dynaudio system







.

I install it by drilling the grill and insert the 2 foot under the emblem,
then hold by double tape and also epoxy the foot just to make sure no rattle when the Bass hit:


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice!!!!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Install the Dynaudio Esotar2 110 Tweeter and it's Tweeter Pod Today.

I bought the Tweeter Pod from Valicar in Germany.
He have eBay store and also direct website now:
www.pods-tweeters-midrange.com

The Pod came with a mounting bolt/net/screw kit to be mounted on A-Pillar.
but I don't feel it is a strong enough mounting point, no to mention, I need to remove my A-Pillar.

So I try to find a way to install in using the Original Honda Tweeter Holes on the dashboard.

First I need the anchor and I use this T-Plates I bought at Home Depot.











Luckily one of the pre drilled holes in the T-Plates can be use,
I just need to drill and tap it so it will fit the hollow light stud thread:



















Then I run the speaker wire through the holes goes under the dashboard:










Here is the anchor with the hollow stud and I run the speaker cable through the stud:





























Then I screw the round metal that I also had drill and tap (M10 thread) as the base, this round metal is basically Aluminum Disc Hardware for Glass Table
8mm thickness, 70mm diameter bought at eBay.












Then install the spacer that came with the tweeter pod:


















then screw the tweeter pod:


















then I use the Black STAINLESS STEEL Socket Screw (M3 size) that I bought from AccuGroup in UK, along with stainless steel washer plus vinyl washer (to prevent scratch to the mounting hole of the speaker)...
all black color:






















Then of course install the Dynaudio Esotar2 110 Tweeter onto the pod:




























































back to the car now, going to install the Zapco ASP-X4 active X-Over


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Those tweeters came out nice as h3ll!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Those tweeters came out nice as h3ll!


Thanks BP1Fanatic,
If you notice, I also bought the optional Ring (from the same Germany Seller) for the tweeter pod to make it looks nicer, so the tweeter now sit flush with the pod.

Still working on the wiring now... all car seat is out... still long way to go...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

This weekend, I finally have time to install all the things needed for everything to be operational









Ok, few weeks ago I started running the 1/0 AWG wire from the engine bay to the cabin. Drill the firewall, use the Stinger Grommet and run the 1/0AWG wire through the passenger side firewall, came out right behind A/C blower in passenger foot compartment:













































This is where I am connecting the 1/0AWG to...
this Stinger Circuit Breaker (Part of my Big3 Wiring) directly connected to the Alternator:










Use Steel Rivet Nut to secure the Aluminum Base of the Optima Yellow Battery, they are SECURED real well:



















Remove all the seat so I can run the wiring (power and signal) to trunk:










More pictures telling the story of my wiring run...
the two RCA under front seat is for FUTURE STEREO Under Seat Subwoofer











































































































__________________


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

This is what I did TODAY:

First, I try to find the right layout for all the fuse block, distribution block, circuit breaker and Zapco ASP-X4 Active X-Over Power Supply...
I need to find the right place inside the trunk that is safe from things in the trunk falling over it, yet still easy enough for me to access if need to...
and I find the PERFECT Place, it is between the right rear seat and the Optima Battery, which mean even better for shortest wire run to the future power amp which will be located behind the rear passenger seat...

























I decide this is going to be the final layout:













Then I think the MDF color is to plain, (eventhough no one really can see it since it will be under the trunk floor cover...
and to paint it is too much to do, and to carpet it would look so ordinary...

so I decide to wrap it with 3M Vinyl Wrap


































Then this is the finished looks:






































































The Circuit Breaker will make it easy if I want to disconnect power in the future, no more removing battery terminal.
Right now I am running 2 battery, the Optima and the stock front battery.
when I have time next week, I will remove the stock front battery and put 2 Pole terminal instead.

Honda Fit have very tight engine bay and each time I need to some work on the engine, most likely I need to remove the battery which is really a hassle... so now with front battery remove, I have more access...
I also want larger battery since the stock front battery is really small ...
other Honda Fit owner change their front battery to a slightly larger one but with my Mugen CR-Z Airbox, I don't have space to upgrade to larger battery...
so by relocating battery to the rear and using Optima Yellow, I solve a lot of problem, not to mention better weight distribution.

That EFX Fuse Distribution block function as both Non Power Amp 12volt source and also Remote On Distribution block.

Now, let's work on the Zapco ASP-X4:
I am installing it on the right side of the trunk where there use to be a console for storing small stuff...
Amazingly the shape is very similar to Zapco's dimension and there is plenty of space behind that panel.

First I enclose the Zapco with blue painter tape to reduce chance of scratch during test fitting:












Using Dremel cut the holes:



















Fabricating the MDF for the base to mount the Zapco ASP-X4,
I am so glad I bought this Makita Saw few weeks ago, otherwise
it would be very hard if I use manual saw













































Run all the RCA wiring to the Zapco:










































I have this sudden idea to make sure no gap between the plastic panel and the Zapco, I use an old door seal (from this car too) and push it on the square opening and it work perfectly


















and it's done:


















I finally able to turn it on and listen to Full Active Front speaker (Dynaudio Esotar 650 and 110)... before it was either still stock speaker or, still stock tweeter...
The sound is amazing but...
I can feel the lack of power from the Sony Power Amp...
Before I was using the 4 channel, bridged as 2 channel to power the stock Honda speaker passively and it have good punch...
but now with it's 4 channel running fully active, it really don't have enough power to drive the Esotars...

so ...
I can't wait for BRAX to release the new MX4 PRO


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Cool installs!


----------



## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Have you looked at the new Zapco z150-AP line? Their specs and parts used are top notch!

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Cool installs!



Thanks BP1Fanatic 




knever3 said:


> Have you looked at the new Zapco z150-AP line? Their specs and parts used are top notch!
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Hi knever3, originally when I started this build project, I was planning to purchase Zapco Z-150.6LX amp. 
Then sometimes late last summer, I am about to place an order through one of online Zapco dealer for Z-150.6LX and I ask for the "improve version" with metal potentio and some other small improvement, but he is out of stock.
Then I heard information that there will be more upgrade coming for the LX line scheduled to launch around January 2018. At that time Zapco had not decided on the name but now it is known as the AP line.

few weeks later, the same online dealer contact me since he now have the LX line back in stock, but I told him I will wait for the AP line, and that online dealer say, it might take longer than January 2018...
so I began looking for alternative brand/model,...
Then I learn more and more about BRAX MX4 but I realized it had been in the market since 2011 so I suspect there will be replacement coming soon...
nevertheless, I came close on placing an order from a Brax dealer in Europe where the price she advertised was much lower than any other price in US,
but right before I place an order, she stop selling Brax...
Then I was waiting for similar deal, and last week Brax announced they will launch the PRO version of BRAX MX4 this summer (I contact them directly)...

so, I decided to postpone again until the BRAX MX4 PRO came out this summer. I know the pricing might be much higher than the NON Pro model, but I am buying this amp for long term use and had no plan to change amp every year, so I want to make sure I got the latest and greatest...

because of that, I need to be patient with my little Sony amp for now


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Today I am doing the final finishing touch on the Battery Relocation:

I cut the trunk floor board to fit the protrusion of the Optima Battery,
Again I use Door Rubber Seal to cover the edges:























Last week, I paint the bottom steel plate below the original front battery ORANGE, and I decide to wait a week to let the paint fully cured.
Last week, I also forced to tie lock the original front battery positive terminal to make sure it don't fall or touch ground and shorts... this is temporary:











I made a mounting for the front battery terminal and it took me this whole weekend:

First I use the Positive and Negative Battery Jumper Terminal from JEGS, to make sure it doesn't loose by itself and to make sure it won't fall, I decide to apply JB Weld Epoxy at the bottom:










While at it, I also simplify the Big 3 wiring and the front EFX fuse block source wiring from 2 source wire (1/0AWG and 4AWG), to just 1 source wire (1/0AWG) directly connected to the Big3 distribution block. I also change the fuse to the more appropriate amp, due to change in load:






























Then I connect the 1/0AWG ground wire from the car body and the engine block that used to be connected to the negative battery terminal to a Rockford Fosgate Distribution Block. The third wire from that ground distribution block will be connected to the JEGS Negative Jumper Terminal.
The RF Distribution block is secure with M4 nut insert and stainless hex socket screw:












Here is the JEGS Battery Jumper terminal ready to use after let the Epoxy cured over night:











Then I use Nut Insert to make sure the two black mounting feet is secure,
those 2 mounting feet were mounting feet for some LED light, but I see it perfect for the JEGS jumper terminal feet so the jumper terminal would be horizontal instead of vertical, by the way all the M5 hex socket screw are stainless steel to make sure there will be no rust problem:












The bottom of the JEGS jumper terminal have screw where I attached the ground wire from Ground Distribution block to the negative terminal, while the positive 1/0AWG from the big 3 distribution block connected to the positive JEGS Jumper terminal:











Then I mount the JEGS Jumper Terminal to the 2 black feet, one of the feet need a spacer to align it properly so I can mount the original Honda Front Positive Battery Terminal to the JEGS Positive Jumper Terminal:


















Then I install the Honda Positive Battery Terminal to the JEGS Positive Jumper Terminal, a little adjustment is needed but it fit:












































This one show the connection between the source at the Big 3 Distribution Block to both the Positive JEGS Jumper Terminal and to the EFX Fuse Box:












Here it is after I install the airbox and everything back,
Looks much nicer than before (empty battery location with positive terminal hanging with a tie lock







)...
Now it looks FINISHED almost like it came this way from Honda Factory:


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I am always in awe as to the amount of equipment that you’ve installed in such a “ smallish “ area. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> I am always in awe as to the amount of equipment that you’ve installed in such a “ smallish “ area.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks Coppertone 
Well, it's a Honda FIT, that is why it FIT


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I want to update that turn out the Sony RSX-GS9 only output the bluetooth phone call audio from the front channel, and because I dedicated my front channel to feed the signal for the front tweeter only, this made the phone call audio only came out from the tweeter but not the midbass...









So this is a problem...

another problem is the Zapco ASP-X4 active crossover have a noise (hissing noise) that I can hear when no music is playing so it is not perfect.

It's look like I will have to go to the BRAX DSP setup (hopefully they came out soon) just because I can't hear well when someone call me since the voice only came through the tweeter thus only play anything over 2.5khz


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Since few months ago, I always have problem with lack of trunk space because I lay the Sony Power amp on the trunk floor:














I was too lazy to fabricate the amp rack because the Sony power amp was a temporary amp before I purchase Brax MX4 which I planned to buy last month..., then right before I make an offer for a brand new Brax MX4 on eBay, BRAX show the upcoming BRAX MX4 PRO version on one of the trade show and they plan to launch it this summer.
Because of that I decide to wait. I also contacted BRAX directly and BRAX confirmed that the PRO version will have the same dimension as the current non pro version (360mm x 360mm).


So today I decide to fabricate an Amp Rack, first I measure the dimension that will fit the space available behind the right rear seat and also match the require dimension for the BRAX MX4 PRO,
I also cut the amp rack so it will not cover the baby seat anchor (just in case I need to use it):


























I then drill the metal plate behind the seat and install Rivet Nut, then TEST secure the MDF to the rear seat using Hex Socket Screw:




























Now it's time to install the Wood Nut Insert for the Sony XM-GS4 Power Amp to attached to:















I cover the amp rack using 3M 1080 Carbon Fiber Vinyl:













Secure the finished Amp Rack onto the seat:
















The secure the Sony XM-GS4 Power Amp onto the amp rack:
























Install the rear right seat back to the car and connect all the wiring again:



































Install back the Mugen Rear Seat Mat that hide the Sony Power Ampand to make it a "stealthy" and install back the Mugen Trunk Floor mat as final finishing touch










Another step for my audio project completed


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I am thinking of installing a pair of Dynaudio MW182 woofer on the floor panel, just ahead of the front seat... in infinite baffle configuration as a stereo subwoofer...


I think this would sounds great and better than an underseat subwoofer...
but this also mean making large holes on the floor panel, and most importantly I need to make some kind of shield under the car so water splash from rain or car wash (car wash with under car spraying system) will not hit/soak the magnet part of the MW182...


I take a peek at the bottom of my car, and there are valleys on both right and left side of the car where the magnet should be protected and I think all I need to do is just weld a steel plate as the shield...
hmmmmmm do I want to go to all this trouble, or just use an underseat subwoofer...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

When I first adjust the time alignment on the Sony RSX-GS9, I tried to measure the distance between the driver and my ear myself...



Last weekend, I want to make sure I did the time alignment adjustment correctly, so I ask my son to help me with measuring tape to re measure the distance between each speaker to my ear, Also take into account the offset from the grille to the center of the dust cap/cone...and turn out, I made a mistake on my first measurement... by 10cm in some cases... I guess it need two person to measure it correctly










After I input the new parameter for the time alignment, immediately I feel improvement, in both details and vocal localization,... 



Next weekend, I will try to adjust the gain..



I am also buying some parts to overcome the problem with the Bluetooth phone call audio output only through the front channel of Sony RSX-GS9...







,... will assemble it asap and report back here...


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Looking forward to reading your thoughts in if that corrected the problem.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> Looking forward to reading your thoughts in if that corrected the problem.



Hi Coppertone,


I am pretty sure my solution for Bluetooth Phone only came out from front channel of RSX-GS9 will work... mainly because it is just a simple relays circuit in RCA distribution box







,


so while I wait for the relays and RCA distribution box to arrive, I start thinking whether I want to keep using Analog Electronic Crossover or buy BRAX DSP when it is available this summer...


Recently I made adjustment to the time alignment setting on the Sony RSX-GS9 and the sound improve to a point that I really confident the time alignment features from the Sony RSX-GS9 is more than adequate...
so for now I am going to focus on keep using (and improving) the Analog Electronic Crossover setup instead of buying BRAX DSP.


Of course, I still want to improve... so I start doing research about either buying a Nakamichi EC-302 3 way analog electronic crossover and modified the circuit so it can output much higher voltage than it's original 2 volts maximum spec... I once own a Nakamichi EC-302 and I remember it sounds very nice but it is prone to alternator noise/interference...
I found out the only way to do this is to upgrade the power supply inside the Nakamichi EC-302, not to mention replacing the decades old electrolytic capacitor, ceramic capacitor and 5532 op-amps...
The cost of buying a brand new Nakamichi EC-302 plus all the modifications above could easily top more than $1,000, and changing a power supply is a big modification that if somehow it do not compatible with the original PCB design, might degrade the quality of the sound of the Nakamichi EC302...
(I was considering the Nakamichi EC-302 simply because sentimental memory and also because I like it's outside design the best, very elegant design and feel expensive to the touch)



Anywa, 

I look back at my current Zapco ASP-X4 crossover which have more modern, more powerful (and outboard separate) power supply compare to Nakamichi EC-302. it also have modern high end Electrolytic capacitor, and actually already sounds great. plus the looks is also nice although not as luxurious looks as the Nakamichi EC-302...

I also notice this Zapco ASP-X4 must have a balanced circuit design due to so many amounts of Op-Amps used on the PCB...(I might be wrong on this one)...


If I modify this Zapco ASP-X4 (following the upgrade that Zapco do for it's latest AP series of amplifiers), I should be able to improve the sounds...


I don't plan to change the Elna Silmic ii capacitors since I think they are already one of the best ... but the OP275 op-amps and TL074 op-amps can be improved!


The Sony RSX-GS9 head unit use Muses8920 op-amps but I want to go one step higher by using Muses01 to replace all OP275 op-amps...
actually not all because there are 29 pieces of OP275 op-amps on the Zapco ASP-X4 PCB, and and at an average cost of $50 including shipping and tax PER Muses01, 29pieces of Muses01 would cost $1,450










Since I only use 2 channel out of 4 channel available on the Zapco ASP-X4 Crossover, I can get away with just replacing 14 pieces of OP275 with 14 pieces of Muses01... plus I will replace TL074 Quad Op-Amp with OPA1644 so it will only cost me about $800 including buying smaller soldering tips, and other supply for this modification. No labor cost since I will be doing forced labor myself











The problem is Muses 01 only came with DIP8 socket while the OPA275 is SOIC8, so I ordered an DIP8 to SOIC8 adapter on eBay which should arrive in 2 to 3 weeks from China.


Once the adaptor arrived, I will make sure the feet spacing fit the spacing on the OP275/Zapco ASP-X4 PCB, then I will order 14 pieces of Muses01 op-amp.
If somehow this adaptor do not work, then I will be forced to buy the Muses8920 with SOIC fitting which equal to the one in Sony RSX-GS9 head unit,











The TL074 though have the same fitting as the OPA1644 so I had ordered the OPA1644 op-amps last night.


From my research, either Muses01 or Muses 8920 should have much better stage compare to OP275, (and improvement every where). Hopefully I can get this done very soon (meaning 6 to 8 weeks due to the parts lead time)...


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

To solve the Sony RSX-GS9 problem of bluetooth phone call audio came out only from the Front Speaker Out,


I bought several (cheap ) things at Amazon:




























Instead of that manual switch, I soldered 2 relay.
Here is how it works:
a. I split the Front RCA from Sony RSX-GS9 using RCA Y=Splitter.
b. One goes direct to the Zapco ASP-X4 X-over Front Input
c. The second one goes to the Distribution Box Input 1
d. The Rear RCA from Sony RSX-GS9 goes into the Distribution Box Input 2
e. The OUTPUT from the distribution box goes into REAR input of the ZAPCO ASP-X4 X-over.

f. I then wire an On-Off Switch to the dashboard. When I press (ON) this switch it will trigger the relay.
g. The Normally Closed Position, connect the Rear RCA output of Sony RSX-GS9 directly to Rear RCA input of the Zapco ASP-X4 (basically bypass).
f. The Normally Open Position, connect the FRONT RCA Output of Sony RSX-GS9 to the REAR RCA input of the Zapco ASP-X4 (Bluetooth phone mode, so the REAR speaker, in my case the Front Door Dynaudio midbass received the Front Channel signal). As explain above this Normally open position become closed when I press the ON-Off Switch.


Here are more pictures:



























































































I install the distribution box on top of the Zapco ASP-X4, but I might move this to under the dashboard near the passenger footwell later if I manage to modified this Sony XA-300 distribution box:


















So I saw this Sony XA-300 in one of Japan online shop, and I like the looks of it much better than the current distribution block. Also this Sony XA-300 should have much nicer internal relay circuit if I can modify the control system to follow a simple 12volts trigger... I would not know until it arrive hopefully in the next 10 days


----------



## richard_crl032 (Nov 13, 2008)

BMW Alpina said:


> I am thinking of installing a pair of Dynaudio MW182 woofer on the floor panel, just ahead of the front seat... in infinite baffle configuration as a stereo subwoofer...
> 
> 
> I think this would sounds great and better than an underseat subwoofer...
> ...


Hi, 

Nice work !! 

Do not believe subwoofer warrant such drastic work since primarily non directional for <>80hz. Key considerations on sub peformance will be size of and enclosure volume which I cannot imagine you have 15 or 12" one wih required volume.

If possible, I would have midbass drivers in kick panel instead since 100-500Hz instead of being in doors firing at your bum and having to tune like mad with all the associated abnormalities and losing more to EQ.

Cheers.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

The Sony XA-300 Auxiliary input adapter for UniLink receivers arrived from Japan few days ago, and it came with a DIN control cable plus the DIN extension cable. My guess is the Japanese market model is Made in Korea because I saw several sold on eBay but they were made in Thailand...






































so this weekend I decided to open it up to modify the circuit, and 
Turn out this unit have so much components inside, including a Burr Brown D/A Converter chips, several op-amps, a large control chip and way too many resistor and some capacitor:


























This is the parts that I took out:


























The PCB are so much cleaner after I took out most of the parts except the 3 relays and the small transformer (keep the transformer basically as jumper, don't detect any voltage differences between the two pole of the transformer):


























I use direct point to point soldering to modify the flow of the signal on the circuit around the relays. I also use the DIN Connector to supply the Power and Ground to the relays, later I cut on end of the DIN cable to get to the positive and negative/ground wiring.
This is so much better then my previous RCA selector box which use many wire jumper instead of point to point soldering.
The PCB of this Sony unit also have much better quality than the previous RCA selector box.


Below is the schematic of the signal flow and after I close the box again (look the same as before it was modified)




































I will took out the previous RCA selector box and use this modified Sony XA-300 instead, plus relocate it to the front passenger footwell, but I will do this later because I need to took out the Sony RSX-GS9 head unit, so I will wait until I am modifying the Sony RSX-GS9 op-amp.




By the way this is also a good exercise, since this is the first time I remove SMD mounted op-amp using ChipQuik SMD1 Leaded Low Temperature Removal Kit, so now I am pretty sure I can remove all those op-amp in the Zapco ASP-X4 X-over and Sony RSX-GS9


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow!


----------



## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Care to share what kind of gloves you are using from the pic on page 13. They are orange I guess you would say but what's interesting is they look nitrile but have grips built into them. So Im really interested


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I just ordered a PAIR of JDM Market only Pioneer *Carrozzeria* Under Seat Subwoofer Model: TS-WH1000A directly from Japan.
A PAIR because I am going to go with STEREO Sub configuration.


TS-WH1000A????????????????????????


Hopefully it will arrive in 2 weeks










The review are overwhelmingly good:
https://minkara.carview.co.jp/partsreview/parts.aspx?pt=1033768
(I used Google Chrome which auto translate to English







)


Plus it is the thinnest under seat subwoofer currently available in the world with one of the highest wattage rating among them, and...
it is still* MADE IN JAPAN*!!! (not Korea or China or Mexico or other countries)...










still, once it arrived, the first thing I will do is open the housing to look at the Power Amp circuit to see if there is any capacitor or Op-Amp or resistor that I can upgrade


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Swaglife81 said:


> Care to share what kind of gloves you are using from the pic on page 13. They are orange I guess you would say but what's interesting is they look nitrile but have grips built into them. So Im really interested



Hello, sorry for late reply, I was out of town the whole week,


I bought the glove at Amazon, here is the direct link:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FSLV1TU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Pioneer tends to do a lot of interesting stuff in the Japanese market. And much of it never makes it over to us here in the US. I'm an xB owner, and there are still guys going crazy trying to buy the used Carrozzeria bB specific pieces for their cars. 

Looks like the units you ordered are probably the next generation/upgrade to the TS-WH500A that we have available here in the US. (Same HVT technology.) I wonder if they chose not to bring it here due to cost, or if the other HVT just hasn't been successful for them in the US market. We did get the new TS-WX70DA, but it seems quite a different use case. Not nearly as small a footprint as the units you ordered.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Pioneer tends to do a lot of interesting stuff in the Japanese market. And much of it never makes it over to us here in the US. I'm an xB owner, and there are still guys going crazy trying to buy the used Carrozzeria bB specific pieces for their cars.
> 
> Looks like the units you ordered are probably the next generation/upgrade to the TS-WH500A that we have available here in the US. (Same HVT technology.) I wonder if they chose not to bring it here due to cost, or if the other HVT just hasn't been successful for them in the US market. We did get the new TS-WX70DA, but it seems quite a different use case. Not nearly as small a footprint as the units you ordered.



Hello rton20s,
I notice (from this picture below, right bottom corner), that this product was an autosound grandprix 2013 winner... so this is not a brand new product but had been around for few years... (I hope they don't came out with a new model just few months after I bought this cause that would suck )...



















I also think that the TS-WH500A don't sell well here in the US because most cars here are trucks and have big space for larger subwoofer...
not to mention the outer size of this sub don't inspire confident that they can play low and loud... so I agree with you that the TS-WH1000A might be deemed to costly for such a niche market...


but since my Honda Fit is a very small car, and I need to transport robot to do demonstration in my trunk... I can't install a large subwoofer...
so hopefully this pioneer will perform as it's spec suggest...



I was thinking of making holes on the floor right under/behind front seat, which is on top of Honda Fit gas tank for a pair of Dynaudio MW-182 in Infiniti baffle configuration with the cone facing the gas tank, and the magnet inside the interior)... 

by installing right on top of the gas tank, it will shield the cone from the rock or debris flowing under the car, but it will still vent outside..
It will also be high enough that if I have to drive through small flood, the water will not hit the cone of the Dynaudio MW-182...

but most likely this will require me to drop the gas tank before I can drill a pair of holes on the floor... so I decide this is too complicated for now...


(Honda Fit gas tank is located right under the front seats)


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

For some reason the pictures aren’t showing up for me right now. I’ll check again later from he computer. 

I’m interested to hear your impressions of the HVT subwoofers once you have them installed. If you don’t mind me asking, how much is it costing you for the pair?


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> For some reason the pictures aren’t showing up for me right now. I’ll check again later from he computer.
> 
> I’m interested to hear your impressions of the HVT subwoofers once you have them installed. If you don’t mind me asking, how much is it costing you for the pair?





Hello rton20s,


I also unable to see the picture now, but I was able to see it few hours ago, this diymobileaudio website must have some bug...
but here is the direct link to the Pioneer Japan webpage:
TS-WH1000A????????????????????????

It cost about $350 EACH plus shipping from Japan. (I probably will spend about $800 to $850 for a pair including shipping once I know the shipping cost quote from Buyee)


You can purchase them at Rakuten Japan or Yahoo Japan (both shopping or auction) via Buyee buying services.


Here are sample of websites:
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/creer/item/ts-wh1000a/


https://shopping.yahoo.co.jp/search...ller=0&mm_Check=&sc_i=shp_pc_search_searchBox


https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search...=0&ei=UTF-8&slider=0&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=0




and here are the Buyee buying service website:
ã€�Buyeeã€‘ "Buyee" Japan Shopping Service | Buy from Yahoo! Buy from Japan!




I also can't wait to install and test the subwoofer, I will update it here


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

a *PAIR* of Pioneer Carrozzeria TS-WH1000A Underseat Subwoofer arrived from Japan. 


It is a rare sight to see an electronic equipment still *MADE IN JAPAN *









By the way, both bottom and upper part are made of CAST and Machine Finished Aluminum. They are HEAVY!!!
I think I want to try them under the front floor mat... if they are not too intrusive, that would make the soundstage even more forward plus I think they are strong enough to withstand someone resting their foot on top of it... I don't know, I will install them tomorrow and report back.

Below are unboxing pictures:


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

SUPER COOL. I can't wait for you to report back.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

GreatLaBroski said:


> SUPER COOL. I can't wait for you to report back.









Thanks GreatLaBroski,




















I want to know if I can upgrade any op-amp inside, open up the casing,... there are 14 screws that lock the front and back plus 3 screw that lock the heatsink to the back cover...
It use a single NJM13700 op-amp inside and not much equivalent out there... so I decide to just leave it like it is...
Interesting design inside.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I installed the Pioneer Carrozzeria TS-WH1000A this weekend:

First I upgrade the Wiring Harness, specifically the 12Volts Positive and Ground Cable with larger Rockford Fosgate wire.
Side by side comparison

















Upgraded wiring harness complete with TechFlex on the 12V wire:










Connect the harness of both Sub to the Fuse/Distribution block. Note that each subwoofer will have it's own dedicated fuse:










The attention to details are amazing, the large screw that cover the mounting holes is made of Machined Aluminum !!!

















Connect the wiring harness and the remote control harness:










The harness came with very long wire for ground, but I cut them, soldered a much larger Rockford Fosgate and ground them as close as possible to the Seat Bolt:









Secure the subwoofer to the floor, and how it look without and with the floor mat on top (driver side):


















Passenger side:










The 2 remote secure with the 3M velcro that came with the package:


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

How does it sound?

I set the sub in stereo subwoofer configuration. 63hz low pass set at Sony RSX-GS9. 
They blend in with the Dynaudio Esotars ... and finally I can hear bass notes that were not reachable by the Dynaudio Midbass before.

I almost thought that both sub were not making sound, until I lower the gain on the remote controls of the sub and can feel the deep low bass is now missing...

You can hear the deep bass, but you can' NOT feel it hitting your chest like normal 10in sub would, and if you want to play loud, this subwoofer just cannot get there...
I guess no defying law of physics with such a small think enclosure...

They are perfect for my goal of having full range FRONT soundstage. 

The only thing that worry me is, when I upgrade the power amp to BRAX MX4 Pro,... to power the 2 way Active Dynaudio Esotars.. maybe this pair of Pioneer Carrozzeria TS-WH1000A sub would not be able to keep up with the volume... but... if that happened... I figure something else...
until then...
This is a PERFECT Subwoofer that just blend in!!!


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

BMWA, you had me launch Chrome on my Note 8 to read about the TS-WH1000A on the Japanese sites. Interesting concept. Your installation of both subs is nice!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

BP1Fanatic said:


> BMWA, you had me launch Chrome on my Note 8 to read about the TS-WH1000A on the Japanese sites. Interesting concept. Your installation of both subs is nice!



Thanks BP1Fanatic 


Now there are only 4 steps left on my build:
a. Replace 14 Op-Amps inside the Zapco ASP-X4 from OPA275 to Muses01
b. Replace 11 Op-Amps inside the RSX-GS9 from Muses 8920 to Muses01
c. Replace my DIY input signal (RCA) switcher with the modified 

Sony XA-300 input signal (RCA) switcher

d. Buy BRAX MX4 PRO (when they are available) to replace the Sony XM-GS4 power amp


After the 4 steps above I am done 


but I think before I buy all the above, I want to buy a pair of Recaro SR7 ASM Limited Ruby seats first to pleased my eye since I think I had pampered my ear a lot this past few months


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I also want to upgrade the current microphone for hands free bluetooth phone call that come with the Sony RSX-GS9 head unit to a better version (also by Sony model ECM-DS70P still Made in Japan) and it just arrived.
Notice this is a stereo microphone so I already bought a Stereo to Mono 3.5mm Jack Adapter:




































Initially, I was planning to use another Sony Stereo microphone that I had in my storage box for a long time (I don't remember how I get this one, but this version have slight imbalance, the left mic is more sensitive than the right mic), plus it does not look as nice as the ECM-DS70P model so I decide to just buy the ECM-DS70P  


Here is the picture of the other mic:














One last thing, I ordered 14 pieces of MUSES 01 to upgrade all the OP-275 op-amp inside the Zapco ASP-X4. If I am succesful with this project, then I will also upgrade the remaining 11 pieces Muses 8920 op-amp inside the Sony RSX-GS9 to MUSES 01 too. The MUSES 01 should arrive in the next few days.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Muses01 op-amps arrived today, I will start solding them this Friday evening


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I spent my entire weekend both Saturday and Sunday removing the op-amp that came with the Zapco ASP-X4 and replace it with a better version.

So here are the details, more like journey :nod:

First disassemble the PCB:


















Then I assemble the SMD to DIP8 adapter, use an IC socket so I can remove the op-amp without soldering in the future, than the MUSES01 on top, because I need to make sure there is enough clearance when I close the casing:



























Ok, so it fit :thumbups: so I start the next step:
First upgrade my Goot Solder tips to a finer one:











Then I start the upgrade by removing the TL074 op amp first (this is basically my training before replacing the other op-amps that is much smaller and located in harder location):
Start by using ChipQuick kit to remove the TL074 op amp, then use wick to clean the metal from ChipQuick, then solder the new OPA1644.

























I then connect it back to my car audio system (without the casing of course), the sound sound just a tad cleaner... no difference with detail or staging...

So move on to the next stages which is replacing the 14 pieces OPA275 op-amp, (only 14 pieces because I only use the first 2 channel out of the available 4 channel of the Zapco ASP-X4), using ChipQuick again...
the picture below is when I use Flux before I solder the metal from the ChipQuick kit to melt the soldered connection to the old op-amp:










Then soldered the DIP8 adapter:










Then insert the MUSES01 op-amp to the IC socket:










Then test it by connecting to the rest of the system in the car:


















I had to soldered and test every 2 op-amp (if that part of the circuit have 2 op-amp for left and right), this way I can feel the improvement everytime I replace more OP275 to MUSES01 and also to make sure if there is soldering mistake (or shorts circuit), I can pinpoint which op-amp causing it (the last one I just soldered)... and yes, I do make some soldering mistake due to the very small spacing of the SMD pad spacing.

The first 2 MUSES01 soldered above was on the output stage of the Tweeter channel, when I test it, at first the right channel tweeter did not turn on so I had to resoldered all the connection and it solve the problem. Once the problem solved, I immediately feel big improvement in the quality of the sound, so I soldered more and more and more until I finished one hour ago (Sunday evening, and I started doing this on Saturday late morning)... yes, it took very long time to soldered just one adaptor to the SMD pad because it is very hard to solder a tiny connection and I have to correct so many error... sometimes I had to remove few capacitor just so my solder can reach the soldering point.

below is the picture when I finished with 7 MUSES01 for the tweeter channel,












and this is the picture when I finished with another 7 MUSES01 for the Mid Bass channel (so all op-amp that I need are soldered):




















So how is the sound?
With every OP-275 replaced with MUSES01, there are step by step improvement, but not until I replaced the last OP-275 that it feel PERFECT!!!
It's like the last blurry layer was removed and I can hear everything so clear.
The sound of my system before this upgrade was already very good but I always feel that it is not perfect yet, and I thought it is because I still use the Sony XM-GS4 power amp instead of my future plan with BRAX MX4 Pro,
but now I know it is not the Sony XM-GS4 power amp that is the weak point but it is the OP-275 op-amp inside the Zapco ASP-X4 xover!!!

The staging is much more 3 Dimensional now, the details is so clear, I can hear crystal clear every minute detail of the reference song I use to test my system, improvement in the whole frequency, from Midbass/midrange and tweeter!!!
(notice I did not mention bass because my subwoofer did not pass through the Zapco ASP-X4 but direct from Sony RSX-GS9).
I am blown away by the level of improvement...

Then I try to see how much is the price of OP-275 (brand new) because I was thinking of selling all this OP-275 opamp as used parts on eBay...
and I was surprise to see that the OP-275 is only about $3 brand new each... while the MUSES01 cost about $46 each (both price at Mouser.com)...
well, again it shows that money doesn't lie... there is a reason why the MUSES01 cost 15 times OP-275 
I guess Zapco was trying to save production cost with the Zapco ASP-X4...
I just want to point out again that for my application, the MUSES01 worth every single penny and more :thumbups:

Now, I am currently debating myself whether I should upgrade the 11 pieces of MUSES8920 op-amp inside the Sony RSX-GS9 to MUSES01 just because I don't think the improvement will be as much
as this upgrade from OP-275 to MUSES01 and part of it is because desoldering and soldering an SMD connection is really hard and a pain... 
well,... hmmm...
I think I still going to upgrade my Sony RSX-GS9 op-amp... so stay tune 

In summary, even if I stop at this stages, my current system is by far the best sounding car audio system I ever own...
and I had a few very nice car audio equipment in the past ... but nothing compare to this current one...

However, I will still complete my goal (more upgrade) which are:
a. replace the 11 pieces op-amp in the Sony RSX-GS9 from MUSES8920 to MUSES01
b. replace the Sony XM-GS4 power amp with BRAX MX-4 Pro
c. and if I really have free time, I still want to add 2 Dynaudio MW-182 ten inch woofer, install it either under my seat or on the floor in front of the front seat (drilling a hole on the car floor plan, IB setup),
use this as stereo subwoofer... but this got to wait until I really have free time since this involved welding etc...


----------



## fleshbone (Apr 3, 2010)

BMW Alpina said:


> I spent my entire weekend both Saturday and Sunday removing the op-amp that came with the Zapco ASP-X4 and replace it with a better version.
> 
> So here are the details, more like journey :nod:
> 
> ...


Nice job mate, looks very professional 

I don't think ZAPCO trying to save money as this upgrade means that end user will pay much more on this product if will come with more expensive OPAMP's, from what I know ZAPCO can provide all their products with sockets by request free of charge so maybe next time you can ask your local distributor or contact ZAPCO directly so they'll help you with this matter, I think you can contact John or Cliff next time - they are here in the forum.


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Gotta respect a man who is on a quest for the perfect sound system. The circuit board mods you are doing are phenomenal!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

fleshbone said:


> Nice job mate, looks very professional
> 
> I don't think ZAPCO trying to save money as this upgrade means that end user will pay much more on this product if will come with more expensive OPAMP's, from what I know ZAPCO can provide all their products with sockets by request free of charge so maybe next time you can ask your local distributor or contact ZAPCO directly so they'll help you with this matter, I think you can contact John or Cliff next time - they are here in the forum.





BP1Fanatic said:


> Gotta respect a man who is on a quest for the perfect sound system. The circuit board mods you are doing are phenomenal!





Thanks Guys 


By the way,

After studying the Sony RSX-GS9 PCB (from many pictures I gather), I see that it will be quite complicated to disassembled the Sony RSX-GS9 PCB and there are many chances of damaging the connection between several PCB.
Plus the DIP8 to SMD adapter might create a height problem, also my feeling is the difference in sound between Muses8920 (from Sony) to Muses01 might not be that much.
After all, I already have the 14 pieces of Muses01 inside the Zapco ASP-X4 basically "influencing the color of the sound".
So I decide, this is more than good enough and I will not be replacing the op-amp inside the Sony RSX-GS9. I will focus my next effort (budget) on replacing the power amplifier and perhaps upgrading the subwoofer instead.



This weekend, hopefully I am not tired so I can upgrade the Bluetooth microphone and also the "Input Selector" box and some RCA cables


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I upgrade the Bluetooth Microphone today because I suspect the microphone that came with the Sony RSX-GS9 is the reason for bad quality voice transmission, (my voice keep get cutting off).
as I had posted few weeks ago, after research on people's review, I bought Sony ECM-DS70P Stereo Microphone, and I also bought 3.5mm stereo to mono jack adapter because Sony RSX-GS9 only accept Mono Microphone.

Initially I was planning to put the new microphone right in front of me, on top of the steering wheel housing, but I see that it block my view to either the dashboard lower/side part or block my view of my ScanGauge OBD tools.

so while I am thinking where I should put the new mic, I remember that I need to replace the A/C air flow knob because the old one were scratched when I install the Sony RSX-GS9 long time ago...
below is the new A/C air flow knob:












And I suddenly have this idea to put the mic right near the A/C knob... initially, I though double tape, but then I hate to see the wire dangling from the Mic... I already have USB wire to the i-Phone and to the Sony RSX-GS9... so no more wire...
I decided to take out the A/C panel and see what I can do:











And I came up with this idea, first drill the plastic panel:











The Sony ECM-DS70P Microphone is unique that it's have a foldable 3.5mm jack, and it also came with extension cable. So I plug the extension cable into the hole that I drilled:











Than to secure that female jack (extension cable), I use Epoxy to hold it from behind the panel:












And then test fit, PERFECT 










Whole A/C panel assembled back to the dashboard:

























The Sony ECM-DS70P might look slightly tilted but that is because it is just freely turn when plug to the jack. tomorrow, I will align it perfectly straight and will put a dot of hot glue just to prevent it from moving freely anymore and stay straight 

I test the bluetooth phone call function by calling my home phone number, my sons and I test it and my sons told me my voice is cleaner and not cutting off anymore. I haven't try it while driving (engine/road noise etc), I will test it tomorrow.
Hopefully this solve the bluetooth phone voice quality problem.


I also decide to replace my DIY RCA selector with a modified Sony XA-300 RCA selector today. I also replace AudioQuest Golden Gate RCA wire for the subwoofer with custom RCA wire. The custom RCA wire is basically a "Y" meaning 1 male to 2 male RCA.

The DIY RCA selector were located on top of the Zapco ASP-X4 in the trunk and now I place the Sony XA-300 RCA selector inside the dashboard. The Sony XA-300 RCA internal relay should be higher quality than my DIY RCA selector relay.

Here are the pictures:


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

And since I upgraded the op-amp, background noise, including alternator noise is more pronounced.

So today, I decide to do some experiment, to eliminate the source of the noise:
a. Pulling the Input RCA to the power amp, no noise, this mean it is not the amp
b. Reconnect the Input RCA to the power amp, and pulling the input RCA to the Zapco ASP-X4 X-over, no noise, this mean it is not the X-over
c. Reconnect the Input RCA to the Zapco ASP-X4, and pulling the input RCA to selector box (Sony XA-300), no noise, this mean it is not the selector box
d. And this mean the source of the noise came from the Sony RSX-GS9 head unit, which is strange...
e. So I decide to pull a 4 AWG ground wire from the same ground as the power amp to the head unit (using distribution block because Sony RSX-GS9 ground from the DC/DC converter is small wire).
and the alternator noise still there, so I try to find other ground and the noise is still there. 
f. I decide to try to ground the RCA negative terminal, and the noise is still there
g. I decide to run an RCA cable (lay on the seat) from the Sony RSX-GS9 directly to the power amp, by passing the RCA selector box and Zapco ASP-X4, and the noise is GONE !!!
h. This means it is NOT the Sony RSX-GS9 that cause the alternator noise, so I try inserting the RCA selector box and still no noise...
i. When I open my Zapco ASP-X4 Crossover to upgrade the op-amp, I notice there is a small switch (that is hidden inside the casing and can only be accessed if I open the back plate cover).
Nothing in the Zapco ASP-X4 owners manual mention about this switch, but at Zapco website, it stated this feature: *"Selectable ground reference for noise elimination"*
So I decide to take out the Zapco ASP-X4 from the right rear panel (a pain since I had to take out the rear battery bracket, then remove the right rear plastic panel, then more bolt and struggle...
I open the back cover of the Zapco ASP-X4, and there are 3 selection, Floating, To Ground and Res... and it is default as To Ground
I try connecting the RCA again and this time I switch to Floating, and NO NOISE at All !!!, I also try Res and also No Noise...
I try look in the internet to understand more about this switch, and I found the answer inside Helix DSP Pro Mk2 user manual...
Turn out with Helix, the default setting is ISO (Floating), and Res means Resistor between Input and Output ground.
I wish Zapco explain this function in the Zapco user manual, plus nobody will know there is this switch unless they open the back cover of the Zapco ASP-X4,...
I am lucky to find this switch when I am upgrading the op-amp...

So I decide to switch it at FLOATING, and now NO Background NOISE and NO ALTERNATOR NOISE. 

I learn more each day


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow, good find!


----------



## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

Sorry to hijack your thread. I am wondering what is the difference between your Zapco ASP-X4 electronic crossover and a dsp? 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

alex1002 said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread. I am wondering what is the difference between your Zapco ASP-X4 electronic crossover and a dsp?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


It would depend on which DSP you compare it to. In terms of function, the ASP-X4 Crossover is just that, a crossover. You get eight channels of output, six of which are band-passed (with varying frequency ranges) and two are high pass only. There are also slope adjustments and summing for the subwoofer channels. Each of the channel pairs also has a level control. 

Most DSPs provide you the same type of crossover and level adjustment, but to a much higher level. In addition, they usually have independent (rather than paired) channel control, time alignment, phase adjustment and EQ. Which processor you compare to will determine the specific capabilities and the level of adjustment for each. 

As a simple crossover, the ASP-X4 is fine. However, it is not a substitute for a DSP. I'm a big fan of Zapco's products, but for the $450 street price of the ASP-X4 there are several DSPs that I would buy first.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

alex1002 said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread. I am wondering what is the difference between your Zapco ASP-X4 electronic crossover and a dsp?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk





rton20s said:


> It would depend on which DSP you compare it to. In terms of function, the ASP-X4 Crossover is just that, a crossover. You get eight channels of output, six of which are band-passed (with varying frequency ranges) and two are high pass only. There are also slope adjustments and summing for the subwoofer channels. Each of the channel pairs also has a level control.
> 
> Most DSPs provide you the same type of crossover and level adjustment, but to a much higher level. In addition, they usually have independent (rather than paired) channel control, time alignment, phase adjustment and EQ. Which processor you compare to will determine the specific capabilities and the level of adjustment for each.
> 
> As a simple crossover, the ASP-X4 is fine. However, it is not a substitute for a DSP. I'm a big fan of Zapco's products, but for the $450 street price of the ASP-X4 there are several DSPs that I would buy first.





rton20s explanation above regarding the differences is perfect. The Zapco ASP-X4 lack many functions only available with DSP.



I choose Zapco ASP-X4 instead of DSP was because my choice of Sony RSX-GS9 as head unit and I want to take advantage of Sony RSX-GS9 excellent ESS9018 DAC and MUSES8920 Analog stage. Plus Sony RSX-GS9 already have internal time alignment function especially since I only run 2 channel active front plus stereo front sub.

At that time, no other DAC inside other head unit or DSP have capability to decode DSD music files. 



Not to mention, I got a very good deal when I purchased my Zapco ASP-X4 ... 



but I end up spending almost $1K upgrading 14 op-amp inside my Zapco ASP-X4 from OPA275 to MUSES01 (including all the tools/IC socket,desoldering metal etc needed)... so basically, my Zapco ASP-X4 also give me excuse to satisfy my hobby to modify op-amps


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

BMW Alpina said:


> rton20s explanation above regarding the differences is perfect. The Zapco ASP-X4 lack many functions only available with DSP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Time to add a pair of ASP-Q1s to handle L/R Parametric EQ. 
https://www.zapco.com/asp-q1


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Time to add a pair of ASP-Q1s to handle L/R Parametric EQ.
> https://www.zapco.com/asp-q1



Hi rton20s, 

I prefer less processing/less component as much possible, I understand the freq response will not be flat / perfect especially in car environment, but I am not competing anyway...
Right now, the only other addition that I want to add to my audio system is Brax MX4 Pro, I was hoping I can have enough "extra money" to buy it soon 
and maybe... if I feel adventurous again, I will replace all the Muses8920 inside the Sony RSX-GS9 with Muses01...
and after those 2 above, I am done with the audio system in this car


----------



## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Wrong! Pioneer avic and Kenwood ecelon can play dsd natively.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

K-pop sucks said:


> Wrong! Pioneer avic and Kenwood ecelon can play dsd natively.



Sorry for late response,

I somehow did not get auto notification on your reply above,...
however, I read on several other threads that you end up buying a Sony RSX-GS9


----------



## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

BMW Alpina said:


> K-pop sucks said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong! Pioneer avic and Kenwood ecelon can play dsd natively.
> ...


Didn't realize I posted on here. Kenwood and pioneer do not do native dsd. Dsd is converted to PCM.

I went gs9 due to volume knob and native dsd via dop playback.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

_Problem:
I never turn off my Head Unit when I turn off the car because the button to turn off the Sony RSX-GS9 completely is very tiny, so the whole audio system were turn off just because I turn off the ignition key to locking position.It was never been a problem, My system do not have any turn on or turn off pop problem until very recently.
Here are the description of the problem:
If I insert the ignition and immediately start the car engine, NO PROBLEM.
But if I insert the ignition key, and turn the key to ACC position (but do not turn on the engine),
then a few seconds later, there are this CRAZY LOUD Sequence of SEVERAL Turn ON POP, it is really loud like sound of several explosions....
(it is NOT just a single pop)
This crazy turn on pop, do not happened all the time, but it would happened usually the first time in the morning... I think it happened when the Voltage from the battery is the lowest.
My system consist of Sony RSX-GS9 feeding Zapco ASP-X4 Active Crossover to Sony XM-GS4 4 channel amp.
I use the Sony RSX-GS9 remote turn on to trigger a relay which then provide the remote turn on for both the Zapco ASP-X4 Active X-over and Sony XM-GS4 4 channel amp.
This really baffle me because I did not change anything on my system that I think could trigger this problem. Basically I had not change anything on my system for quite a while._

*SOLUTION:*
I disconnect all my Dynaudio speaker from the power amp and connect the old stock Honda Midrange speaker instead.
I turn on the key to ACC and immediately I heard the crazy turn on pop again, I notice the clipping LED on the ZAPCO active crossover flashing while the turn on pop last.
I timed the time it took for the turn on pop until it disappear by it self, it is about 5 seconds.
Also, I notice that if I turn the key back off, and turn it back to ACC immediately, no turn on pop...
but if I wait at least 10 to 15 minutes and turn the key back to ACC, then the turn on pop return.

I think I understand what happened, I modified the Zapco ASP-X4 x-over op-amp and replace them all with MUSES01.
I think the MUSES01 require more current and higher voltage compare to the stock op-amp. and since I replace a lot of op-amps, it took longer for the Zapco ASP-X4 to stabilize.
If, I turn on the engine immediately, there are much more current available with higher voltage that the Zapco ASP-X4 will stabilize immediately and no turn on pop.

Next week, I plan to reheat all the soldered connection inside the Zapco ASP-X4 PCB just to make sure no loose connection on the op-amp adapter.

I already prepared for this scenario by using the PAC-TR12 module. I programmed the PAC-TR12 to delay the remote turn on to the Power-Amp by 10 seconds, this for sure will give the Zapco ASP-X4 Active Crossover enough time to stabilized.
and IT WORKS !!!









Here are the pictures:











I also improved the ground post connection and cover it with a YELLOW rubber tube:











and last, I install Solen Capacitor to protect my Tweeter, I used a Electric Junction Box from Home Depot to protect it:


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice problem solving! Would a simple relay do the same thing?


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Nice problem solving! Would a simple relay do the same thing?



Hello,
I already used a relay to provide the remote power to all downstream component, so originally I used the remote turn on lead from the Sony RSX-GS9 head unit to a relay which then provide the current to all downstream component (Zapco ASP-X4 electronic Crossover and Sony XM-GS4 Power Amp). 



From what I read there is a simple DIY to make delay circuit using relay and capacitor/resistor combo but I don't have time to build this delay circuit myself and I decide to buy an off the shelf solution from PAC-TR12.
Plus it is so easy to set up the PAC-TR12 using laptop and there are so many functions inside it that I might need for future applications. (It's also not expensive)


So at this moment, I still use that relay to feed the PAC-TR12 it's power supply and also it's trigger lead.


Thanks


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Cool!


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I just found and bought Nakamichi EC-302 Active Crossover, BRAND NEW OLD STOCK  (well it actually just arrived at my home)
I think I will need to change all the Electrolytic Capacitor inside it and of course upgrade some op-amps 

I will test this (after upgrade) and compare it with the Zapco ASP-X4 in sound quality, May The Best Analog Active Crossover Wins


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I had been upgrading the Nakamichi EC-302 3 Way Crossover with new Electrolytic Capacitor (from Old Green Nichicon Muse ES series to the latest Nichicon Muse KZ seris. I also replace all of the brown Ceramic capacitor with WIMA MKP Capacitor, 

plus all the Op-Amps from NJR 5532 and Mitsubishi 5238and to NJR MUSES01 as usual


----------



## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

There were originally 6 green caps. How come we only see 3 black caps?


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

BP1Fanatic said:


> There were originally 6 green caps. How come we only see 3 black caps?



Hello,
Because I am not finished yet


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

I love me some modded electronics. Looking forward to your impressions when you’re done.


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I had been promising my self, that my last major purchase will be replacing my Sony XM-GS4 Amplifier with BRAX MX4 PRO, then I am done with modifying this car... (unless I might need to replace the engine some day... but that is a different story)...

However, I recently bought a pair Recaro SR-7 ASM Limited Ruby which cost around $5k with shipping from Japan, and a BRAX MX4 PRO would cost AT LEAST around $5k (if I can found a good discount from list price of $6k to 6.5k)...
I also still need to upgrade my home audio pre and power amp, buy another car this year,... and many other stuff I promise to buy for my wife etc. etc...
So when I found a BRAX NOX4 NON DSP Version, (I prefer NON DSP since I already have time alignment function from my Sony RSX-GS9), not to mention this BRAX NOX4 came with very special serial number# 321,
in Brand New In Box condition... and... at just around $1,28k including tax...

I decided to lower my expectation, and be more reasonable (this is very hard to do)...








I know the BRAX NOX4 with just 4 x 100watt at 4 ohms RMS is adequate vs. a BRAX MX4 PRO at 4 x 300 watt RMS at 4 ohms especially since I am just going to use this 4 channel amps to drive my Front Stage Dynaudio Esotar MidBass and Tweeter...
BRAX NOX4 also looks very similar to a BRAX MX4 PRO, just smaller..., it's just that it's not "the" MX4 PRO...
But at the end of the day, my logic win against my passion this time and so I save at least around $4k compare to a BRAX MX4 PRO, which is quite a good saving considering a McIntosh latest home audio pre-amp, the C53 only list at $8k

Anyway, the BRAX NOX4 just arrived today, and I must say, I am glad I lowered my goal








below is the pictures, the build quality is amazing, I mean, just one look at those power and speaker terminal shows the craftsmanship.
Now I am having a good dilemma, should I install my Beatrush Pillow Ball Mount (for my suspension) first this weekend, or the BRAX NOX4...


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> I had been promising my self, that my last major purchase will be replacing my Sony XM-GS4 Amplifier with BRAX MX4 PRO, then I am done with modifying this car... (unless I might need to replace the engine some day... but that is a different story)...
> 
> However, I recently bought a pair Recaro SR-7 ASM Limited Ruby which cost around $5k with shipping from Japan, and a BRAX MX4 PRO would cost AT LEAST around $5k (if I can found a good discount from list price of $6k to 6.5k)...
> I also still need to upgrade my home audio pre and power amp, buy another car this year,... and many other stuff I promise to buy for my wife etc. etc...
> ...




I have the NOX4DSP and it’s running my Utopia M mids and tweeters - I have a MX4 on midbass and sub.. with the GS9 and Helix pro 2

Car sounds very nice - I don’t see the benefit to change to the MX4 pro - I would rather buy the Brax DSP instead... of course if you can swing the MX4 PRO then buy all means 

The DSP will yield the most impact to your system...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I install My BRAX NOX4 this weekend,

Here are the steps:
Use Paper to create bolt pattern then Drill on the amp rack (MDF) and install the Wood Nut Insert:





















I used SPACER with Hex Socket Screw, (also use several washers, include plastic washer between Hex Socket Screw and Amp Mounting Holes to reduce friction and reduce scratching):





























Ran Speaker Wires and RCA Cables, and secure them with Cable Holder:










Cut new 1/0 AWG Power Cable then protect them using TechFlex:











Mount Amp to Amp Rack:



















Connect all wiring:



















Turn On for First Time and Adjust GAIN:











Install the Gain Cover Back:











*I play several Reference Song that I knew very well, and immediately I notice compare to my old Sony XM-GS4 power amp, this BRAX NOX4 has:
a. Much LOWER Noise Level
b. The Bass, Midrange, and Treble sounds more Natural and more Pleasant to my ear, almost like my home audio system (I am using B&W 804D3 speaker, Wadia Amp for my home audio system).
c. Even better Imaging, More Revealing, especially in the Lower Level Details

In summary, my car audio system is now PERFECT for my ear (and of course for the eye candy effect







), so finally, I can close this Audio Upgrade Project








*


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> I install My BRAX NOX4 this weekend,
> 
> Here are the steps:
> Use Paper to create bolt pattern then Drill on the amp rack (MDF) and install the Wood Nut Insert:
> ...


What where you using the Sony XM-GS4 for? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Elektra said:


> What where you using the Sony XM-GS4 for?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was using the Sony XM-GS4 power amplifier to drive my 2 way Dynaudio Esotar (650 and 110) Front speakers (active setup)


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> I was using the Sony XM-GS4 power amplifier to drive my 2 way Dynaudio Esotar (650 and 110) Front speakers (active setup)


Oh ok - how did the Sony sound? I know it’s no Brax (like 10+ times cheaper as well) it got decent reviews online 

I bought one to run a set of Sony Super tweeters to see what the hype surrounding the use of a super tweeter as I see a lot of high end installs using them...

I bought it primarily because it’s supposed to have a 10-100khz bandwidth and it was cheap... looked at it yesterday and it’s not a bad looking amp got a decent fuse rating as well...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Wow, you and I share the same curiosity. I actually bought the Sony Super Tweeters a year ago and tested it using the Sony passive crossover that came with it to work in conjunction with my Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter and to my surprise, I felt it add harshness... 

So I called my then 11 years old son (now he is 12 years old  ) and I asked my son how the sound differ when I connected and disconnected the Sony Super Tweeter (I did this in real time A / B Swap). Even my 11 years old son felt the added harshness from the Sony Super Tweeter... and it sounded much more musical with just the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter. so I packed the Sony Super Tweeters back and sold it...

Now the Sony XM-GS4 was a very nice sounding, but now I had the BRAX NOX4, I can feel the Sony had that "harshness" too, the treble just felt "sharp like a needle poking my ear" compare to the very musical treble sound from the BRAX NOX4. However, before I listen to the BRAX NOX4, I thought there is no way other amp can improve much beyond power (midbass kick) compare to the Sony XM-GS4 due to the Sony XM-GS4 relatively low power rating compare to others.

Especially just by looking at the Sony XM-GS4 spec where Sony claim premium quality component were used... Well, I guess the Sony XM-GS4 did use premium quality components in its price range...

So, for my ear, an amp is just not an amp, I can hear the difference...Oh, the Sony XM-GS4 also had higher noise than the BRAX NOX4.

But bang for the buck, the Sony XM-GS4 is really a great value, and in this area it still wins against the BRAX NOX4, especially if you purchase the BRAX NOX4 at full retail price, which luckily I didn't


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> Wow, you and I share the same curiosity. I actually bought the Sony Super Tweeters a year ago and tested it using the Sony passive crossover that came with it to work in conjunction with my Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter and to my surprise, I felt it add harshness...
> 
> So I called my then 11 years old son (now he is 12 years old  ) and I asked my son how the sound differ when I connected and disconnected the Sony Super Tweeter (I did this in real time A / B Swap). Even my 11 years old son felt the added harshness from the Sony Super Tweeter... and it sounded much more musical with just the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter. so I packed the Sony Super Tweeters back and sold it...
> 
> ...


I use the NOX as well - I’ll give the super tweeter a try and see what it does...

It was pretty cheap so I won’t lose much if I sold it... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> Wow, you and I share the same curiosity. I actually bought the Sony Super Tweeters a year ago and tested it using the Sony passive crossover that came with it to work in conjunction with my Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter and to my surprise, I felt it add harshness...
> 
> So I called my then 11 years old son (now he is 12 years old  ) and I asked my son how the sound differ when I connected and disconnected the Sony Super Tweeter (I did this in real time A / B Swap). Even my 11 years old son felt the added harshness from the Sony Super Tweeter... and it sounded much more musical with just the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter. so I packed the Sony Super Tweeters back and sold it...
> 
> ...


When you ran the super tweeters how did you run them? What other amps did you use and what DSP did you use? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Elektra said:


> When you ran the super tweeters how did you run them? What other amps did you use and what DSP did you use?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I used the Passive Xover that came with the Sony Super Tweeter kit, connect them in Parallel with the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter which was driven by the Sony XM-GS4 (along with the midbass for 2 way full active system).
I never plan to use any outboard DSP for this system from the beginning, just use the Zapco ASP-X4 analog electronic crossover to divide the freq before the Sony XM-GS4
No other amps were used because my Pioneer floor subwoofer was active/powered subwoofer.

Sony also recommend to use their passive xover to connect their super tweeter to augment the current system. Of course, if you have an extra 2 channel (both amp and DSP) you can use it to directly drive the Sony Super Tweeter without using Sony Passive Xover to tuned/EQ the Sony super tweeter further and maybe you can tuned/EQ out that harshness that I heard...


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> I used the Passive Xover that came with the Sony Super Tweeter kit, connect them in Parallel with the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter which was driven by the Sony XM-GS4 (along with the midbass for 2 way full active system).
> I never plan to use any outboard DSP for this system from the beginning, just use the Zapco ASP-X4 analog electronic crossover to divide the freq before the Sony XM-GS4
> No other amps were used because my Pioneer floor subwoofer was active/powered subwoofer.
> 
> Sony also recommend to use their passive xover to connect their super tweeter to augment the current system. Of course, if you have an extra 2 channel (both amp and DSP) you can use it to directly drive the Sony Super Tweeter without using Sony Passive Xover to tuned/EQ the Sony super tweeter further and maybe you can tuned/EQ out that harshness that I heard...


Sounds like you didn’t give the super tweeter a good enough chance to work - it really needs to be run on its own 2 channels and through a DSP they sounded harsh because you probably over powered them 

The idea of super tweeters is to add air and detail to the system - that could be done with very little power also connecting 2 sets of tweeters at different slopes via passives is a recipe for disaster as slopes may change...

Sounds like it could have worked much better... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Elektra said:


> Sounds like you didn’t give the super tweeter a good enough chance to work - it really needs to be run on its own 2 channels and through a DSP they sounded harsh because you probably over powered them
> The idea of super tweeters is to add air and detail to the system - that could be done with very little power also connecting 2 sets of tweeters at different slopes via passives is a recipe for disaster as slopes may change...
> Sounds like it could have worked much better...
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When Sony design the accompanying Passive Crossover, it was design by them to work in conjunction with the current system without adding any extra amp channel or any DSP.
The power rating of the Sony Super Tweeter was also design to work with the Sony XM-GS4, plus their passive xover is design by Sony to attenuate the power.
It's clearly explain on the diagram in the user manual. Again, the Passive Crossover is from Sony included with the Super Tweeter Package, if it is a recipe of disaster, then that recipe came directly from Sony.

Of course, you might have better success but I am not willing to add more amp channel (or using DSP) just to drive the super tweeter.
Especially when I found the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeter already have better air and details without the harshness of the Sony Super Tweeter in my system.

In the end, you will find out soon (good or bad) when you try the Sony Super Tweeter, but the above is what my experience was.


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> When Sony design the accompanying Passive Crossover, it was design by them to work in conjunction with the current system without adding any extra amp channel or any DSP.
> The power rating of the Sony Super Tweeter was also design to work with the Sony XM-GS4, plus their passive xover is design by Sony to attenuate the power.
> It's clearly explain on the diagram in the user manual. Again, the Passive Crossover is from Sony included with the Super Tweeter Package, if it is a recipe of disaster, then that recipe came directly from Sony.
> 
> ...


Yeah sure the Esotar is a more than capable system - and even though the manual suggests the wiring you did - it’s more like a minimum setup - with the control of at least 2 extra channels you could have taken the harshness away buy the use of the gains and you could have passively tunes the system for better results 

With it running on the same channels as the tweeter put unwanted loading on the amp and by doing that you increasing the noise floor and over driving the amp and tweeters...

When high end installers use the super tweeter it’s with its own amp and most probably active to get phasing right between your main tweeter and the super tweeter...

It performs a specific function as it’s supposed to add harmonics to your front end also the Esotar tweeter probably only plays to 25khz which means the Sony should have added those harmonics up until 40-50khz that your brain senses not that you could hear them.. 

Imho the super tweeter should almost be invisible and only noticeable when you switch it on and off... the fact that they sounded harsh means they didn’t work the way it’s supposed to..

A friend who writes for a speed and sound magazine was invited to go to Asia and see the audio scene that side and was given a demo in a car using the super tweeters and he said the car sounded amazing with them - it had that “wow” factor but he said the tweeters were extremely subtle if you didn’t have the appropriate setup you would not notice it that much... 

Sounds to me that you didn’t set your system up properly... 

Any rate I’ll report back once I get mine in... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Elektra said:


> Yeah sure the Esotar is a more than capable system - and even though the manual suggests the wiring you did - it’s more like a minimum setup - with the control of at least 2 extra channels you could have taken the harshness away buy the use of the gains and you could have passively tunes the system for better results
> 
> With it running on the same channels as the tweeter put unwanted loading on the amp and by doing that you increasing the noise floor and over driving the amp and tweeters...
> 
> ...


Elektra,
With all due respect, please kindly do not keep implying that I did not set up my system properly. The only setup recommended by Sony was to use the included passive crossover without any mentioning of 2 extra channel for amp or DSP needed for their super tweeter to perform. So in that regards, my setup is NOT a minimum setup but the only setup recommended, thus the Sony Super Tweeter should work with my setup. Otherwise, I would not buy the Sony super tweeter in the first place because I am not willing to add DSP nor extra amp channel.

I believe, the main reason was, The Dynaudio Esotar tweeter already have a much higher sound quality and standard that the Sony Super Tweeter simply could not match.
This is like if you put an aftermarket LED bulb to augment the OEM factory LED lighting from BMW, and the aftermarket LED will actually make the lighting worse.
or if you put a nice HRE aluminum wheel on a Porsche 911 GT2 RS that came from factory with magnesium wheel. No matter how nice looking the HRE aluminum wheel, it would not perform like the factory Porsche magnesium wheel.

Also, my young son (which have better hearing then me) and I could barely hear the Sony Super Tweeter, so attenuation in volume is not a problem, but they just add harsh.
That means that passive xover works in both attenuating and also passing only the super tweeter frequency to the super tweeter. *Again, as you mention, the price of the Sony Super Tweeter is affordable and that affordability dictate the engineer/designer choice of material and design which in the end, will always be inferior to the Dynaudio Esotar.*
My current home audio system use Bowers and Wilkins 804D3 speaker which have the latest Diamond Tweeter, so I also have another reference standard to compare when it come to tweeter.

This days, I am willing to listen but will not rely on "experts" anymore but more on my own experience with my unique situation. Many so called "experts" have hidden agenda.
I am not saying Your friend have hidden agenda and your friend might be right that he/she find the Sony super tweeter added air and wow factor... but it might also be because of "the moment" effect in seeing someone employing a super tweeter.

*One thing I found though, most of the time, money doesn't lie, and I found it true in this situation that the Dynaudio Esotar is just so much better in the first place...
just like how I find the hard way that the BRAX NOX4 is a better sounding amp than Sony XM-GS4.*

In the end, I am not going to debate anymore regarding this issue, and I am looking forward for your review on the Sony Super Tweeter with the extra DSP tuning and separate amp channel, and I also hope you will succeed in your application.


----------



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

I don’t care what tweeter you use but throwing a $200 super tweeter with a passive crossover will not get the most of its capabilities, especially compared to a $1,000+ Dyn tweeter. So with what you are currently willing to do, I don’t see how the Sony super tweeter would provide you anything better since you already have such a great tweeter.


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> Elektra,
> With all due respect, please kindly do not keep implying that I did not set up my system properly. The only setup recommended by Sony was to use the included passive crossover without any mentioning of 2 extra channel for amp or DSP needed for their super tweeter to perform. So in that regards, my setup is NOT a minimum setup but the only setup recommended, thus the Sony Super Tweeter should work with my setup. Otherwise, I would not buy the Sony super tweeter in the first place because I am not willing to add DSP nor extra amp channel.
> 
> I believe, the main reason was, The Dynaudio Esotar tweeter already have a much higher sound quality and standard that the Sony Super Tweeter simply could not match.
> ...


Like I said it was cheap enough to give it a bash if it sounds crap well I’ll put it up for sale at half what I paid to move it...

I need to satisfy my curiosity on the topic - currently I am using the Focal Utopia M tweeter so it’s very capable as a tweeter and the car sounds pretty darn good right now...

I can see how a super tweeter can enhance the stage if applied correctly I can’t imagine why you would use a $100 tweeter with a Focal Ultima or Z Studio or TBM as I have seen on many installs in Asia - there is obviously something in it or they wouldn’t ruin a high end setup..

I’ll report back as soon as I have tried it.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> Elektra,
> With all due respect, please kindly do not keep implying that I did not set up my system properly. The only setup recommended by Sony was to use the included passive crossover without any mentioning of 2 extra channel for amp or DSP needed for their super tweeter to perform. So in that regards, my setup is NOT a minimum setup but the only setup recommended, thus the Sony Super Tweeter should work with my setup. Otherwise, I would not buy the Sony super tweeter in the first place because I am not willing to add DSP nor extra amp channel.
> 
> I believe, the main reason was, The Dynaudio Esotar tweeter already have a much higher sound quality and standard that the Sony Super Tweeter simply could not match.
> ...


Well I installed the super tweeter - what I like is the air at the top end of the treble - switching back and forth it def sounds better with it playing as apposed to not having it...

What I don’t like is the hiss I am getting if I turn up the gains the background noise gets noticeable - I agree with you here the Brax amps are much more quieter...

Now that I know it works I’ll look at getting another Brax amp to drive the tweeters 

It does have that wow factor - I was actually surprised that I could hear the tweeter and that it actually did make a noticeable difference - I run the Focal TBM tweeter about 15 times more expensive than the Sony yet the Sony made a difference...

Quite impressed actually l can see why they use this setup in Asia - quite surprised it hasn’t caught on elsewhere...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Elektra said:


> Well I installed the super tweeter - what I like is the air at the top end of the treble - switching back and forth it def sounds better with it playing as apposed to not having it...
> 
> What I don’t like is the hiss I am getting if I turn up the gains the background noise gets noticeable - I agree with you here the Brax amps are much more quieter...
> 
> ...


Congratulations Elektra, to hear that the Sony Super Tweeter is in synergy with your current tweeter.


----------



## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

Elektra said:


> Well I installed the super tweeter - what I like is the air at the top end of the treble - switching back and forth it def sounds better with it playing as apposed to not having it...
> 
> What I don’t like is the hiss I am getting if I turn up the gains the background noise gets noticeable - I agree with you here the Brax amps are much more quieter...
> 
> ...


I follow an audio shop named mega-audio Jakarta in IG. Seen th using the super tweeter in many high end setups. 

Reading this thread makes me wanna give it a try too... but before looking for more work...better install the Brax amp first.

Nice to read about findings fr you and the others in this thread.

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jackk said:


> I follow an audio shop named mega-audio Jakarta in IG. Seen th using the super tweeter in many high end setups.
> 
> Reading this thread makes me wanna give it a try too... but before looking for more work...better install the Brax amp first.
> 
> ...


I’ll try the super tweeters on 2 channels of the Brax MX4 - just wanna see if the noise floor comes down so I can ascertain my position on the Sony amp...

Also wanna try active - I haven’t actually tuned the super tweeters so I need to spend some time tomorrow getting the basics right...










Once I am satisfied with the setup I’ll pack it up and get the install built properly to incorporate the new tweeter also my pods were originally built for the Kit 7 so I hacked the pods up to fit the M’s...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

Elektra said:


> I’ll try the super tweeters on 2 channels of the Brax MX4 - just wanna see if the noise floor comes down so I can ascertain my position on the Sony amp...
> 
> Also wanna try active - I haven’t actually tuned the super tweeters so I need to spend some time tomorrow getting the basics right...
> 
> ...


Ahh always something to try to improve things! will b interesting to see how everything turns out once dialed in 

Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jackk said:


> Ahh always something to try to improve things! will b interesting to see how everything turns out once dialed in
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


I wanna try my brothers TBE tweeters as super tweeters to see if there is merit in using a higher end tweeter as a super tweeter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

Elektra said:


> I wanna try my brothers TBE tweeters as super tweeters to see if there is merit in using a higher end tweeter as a super tweeter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When u have time plz let us know your findings 

Happy New Year !!

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jackk said:


> When u have time plz let us know your findings
> 
> Happy New Year !!
> 
> ...


Yeah no problem - I asked my brother today if he can bring them tomorrow but they just moved and everything is in boxes so maybe not tomorrow but hopefully before the 6th


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## datooff (Aug 5, 2019)

Soon, I will be playing with the Sony super tweeters too, my tweeters/mids will be in the sail panels at around 15-25% off axis. Sony's can help with the very top end if that will be a problem.


----------

