# Stock "premium" sound system upgrade, need help.



## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

Ok so I just bought a 2012 Kia Optima SX with the premium 8 speaker Infinity sound system. For a stock system I have to say it sounds pretty good. But I still have the itch to upgrade. Especially since I have an MS8 laying around. 

Bear with me, I have several questions:

1.) I know the MS8 has a maximum input voltage of around 2.8V (line input) and a maximum input voltage of 15v (speaker level input). Here are the specs:









I will be tapping into my speaker outputs from my stock infinity amp, but how can I determine the voltage coming out of the amp? So I can determine if I can even use the MS8. 









This question is a little more in depth.

2.) The stock system is a 550watt 8 speaker system. It is compsosed of a single 8" DVC subwoofer, front door 6.5" coaxials (driver and passenger), rear door 6.5" coaxials (driver side and passenger side), a 4" center speaker, and a 1/2" tweeter 4" midrange combo in the dash on the left and right side. 
Also shown here









Now to me that sounds like a 10 speaker system and when you look at the amplifier schematics (attached below) you can see there is actually 10 speaker outputs. The left plug shows the 2 channels of outputs to he sub. The middle plug shows outputs to the center and to the mid range right and left. And the right plug shows the outputs for the door speakers and then for the front left and front right (Which I assume these are the tweeter outputs since the ones labeled on the center plug are 'midrange').








How the hell should I tap into these to hook up to my MS8. Obviously the MS8 only has 8 channels available for input. What is really throwing me off is the dash midrange/tweeter combo. Because they say its a single speaker but they have two separate outputs for it. And also, for the sub, Should I only tap into one channel of output? Or both.




This is the outputs from the headunit, I assume the SPDIF is the speaker signal digitized. 









I got all of these documents/pics off the kiatechinfo.com website, which shows all the detailed schematics for the vehicle, (very helpful!).

Thanks guys. And sorry for the huge pics.

Later


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

No love, c'mon someone gotta help out a newbie.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

from what I know of the MS8, it has the ability to sum all inputs. take the speaker outputs from the connector and feed them into the MS8. then use whatever speakers and amplifiers you like.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> from what I know of the MS8, it has the ability to sum all inputs. take the speaker outputs from the connector and feed them into the MS8. then use whatever speakers and amplifiers you like.


So if i just grab everything from the "C" connector in the diagram, my MS8 will do the work for me, then i just run my wires to my speakers and call it a day. It will get the sub channel from that too?

Seems easy enough, I guess i was over thinking it, huh?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I think it is really that simple. check the manual for the MS8 to see if you have to put it in a "summing" mode or if it just does it. but as I understand it. that is all you need.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> I think it is really that simple. check the manual for the MS8 to see if you have to put it in a "summing" mode or if it just does it. but as I understand it. that is all you need.


Ive read thru the MS8 yea the inputs are summed. I guess ill just have to bite the bullet and cut the wires tho because they don't make harness for my car yet. oh well. 

Directly from the MS8.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> Ive read thru the MS8 yea the inputs are summed. I guess ill just have to bite the bullet and cut the wires tho because they don't make harness for my car yet. oh well.
> 
> Directly from the MS8.


cut em or tap into em.

these work really well. just buy the correct gauge type.

Posi-Tap- No Crimp Tap


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> cut em or tap into em.
> 
> these work really well. just buy the correct gauge type.
> 
> Posi-Tap- No Crimp Tap


Yea ive used those before, im not too thrilled about them. I saw another guys thread who basically cut his harness then added some GM male/female plugs so that if he needed to go back to stock, all he would need to do is plug the connectors back in line stock like and it was good to go. 

so he had one male plug coming out of the amp, and two female plugs. one of the female plugs went to the stock output wires. and the other female plug went to his aftermarket output. disconnect/connect as needed. its a little extra work, but might be worth it.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

Opened up my dash speakers last night. It is a combination 3.5" and 1" tweeter. but they have separate channels for each. My suspicion was correct. It really is more like a 10 channel setup, which would make just adding the MS8 difficult cuz you would be missing 2 of the channels somewhere.

I think the easiest thing to do is to swap all the speakers, run my own speaker cable. Add my own amps. (im going with a JL 600/6 and a JL 300/1 along with the MS8.

Now I just need to find a set of 3.5" mid ranges that will fit in my dash. 

What would be better adding new 3.5" midrange to the dash, along with new coaxial's in the doors. 

Or running just a tweeter in the dash spot with a woofer in the front doors and coaxial in the rear doors?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> Opened up my dash speakers last night. It is a combination 3.5" and 1" tweeter. but they have separate channels for each. My suspicion was correct. *It really is more like a 10 channel setup, which would make just adding the MS8 difficult cuz you would be missing 2 of the channels somewhere.*
> 
> I think the easiest thing to do is to swap all the speakers, run my own speaker cable. Add my own amps. (im going with a JL 600/6 and a JL 300/1 along with the MS8.
> 
> ...


yes, but more than likely their is some redundancy there. if you pick inputs from the sub, a door woofer, a mid and tweeter, you will get he whole signal summed together.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> yes, but more than likely their is some redundancy there. if you pick inputs from the sub, a door woofer, a mid and tweeter, you will get he whole signal summed together.


I realize that. but what I's saying is that its impossible to get all the outputs then. since the midranges have seperate channels for tweet and woofer. Once I pick it up, theres not enough outputs to get them all back up. The ms8 only has 8 outputs. to tap back into the stock system I would need 10. Unless there is a way to combine the tweeter/midrange combo into one output. 


Id rather upgrade everything anyways. I just have to start picking out some components. I already know what amps I want. and I already have the MS8. just gotta get my speakers. 

Are Rockford fosgate coaxials any good? they have a 6.5" two way and a three way that can be had for a pretty decent price on sonic electronics. They also have a nice little 2 way 3.5" that I think will fit in my dash. And Ill go with either a 10" or a 12" sub in the trunk, havent decided yet.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> I realize that. but what I's saying is that its impossible to get all the outputs then. since the midranges have seperate channels for tweet and woofer. Once I pick it up, theres not enough outputs to get them all back up. The ms8 only has 8 outputs. to tap back into the stock system I would need 10. Unless there is a way to combine the tweeter/midrange combo into one output.


but that is my point. you dont need all the inputs. the rear door and front door signals are likely the same.


> Id rather upgrade everything anyways. I just have to start picking out some components. I already know what amps I want. and I already have the MS8. just gotta get my speakers.
> 
> Are Rockford fosgate coaxials any good? they have a 6.5" two way and a three way that can be had for a pretty decent price on sonic electronics. They also have a nice little 2 way 3.5" that I think will fit in my dash. And Ill go with either a 10" or a 12" sub in the trunk, havent decided yet.


never had any experience with RF speakers.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> but that is my point. you dont need all the inputs. the rear door and front door signals are likely the same.


I think we are on different pages here. 

This is how my brain interpreting adding in the MS8.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ah, so you were talking about the MS8 outputs, not the input from the stock HU, correct?

I would grab a few more signals for input, just to make sure you dont miss any signals.

are you planing on using all the stock speakers or replacing them? 
if you are replacing them, then are you planning on using all the stock locations?

I will assume that if you are going to use all the stock locations with new drivers, alot of the new drivers will come with passives that you can use in conjuction with the active x-overs in the MS8. even if you didnt here is how you could utilize all 8 channels and still get 11 channels of output.

channel 1-2 front L/R door
channel 3-4 front L/R dash (passive for mid/tweet)
channel 5-6 rear L/R door
channel 7 sub
channel 8 center.

if T/A is not a big issue then you could do this as an alternate and it will eliminate all the passives.

channel 1-2 front/rear L/R door
channel 3-4 front L/R dash tweeter
channel 5-6 front L/R dash mid
channel 7 sub
channel 8 center.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> ah, so you were talking about the MS8 outputs, not the input from the stock HU, correct?
> 
> I would grab a few more signals for input, just to make sure you dont miss any signals.
> 
> ...



10-4. yea now we are on the same page. I will probably replace everything save for the center speaker cuz i want to amp the door speakers, and the dash corners but leave the center just off the MS8. I should probably grab all the outputs from connector B and C on the stock amp cuz the bass channel (on connector A) can be created on the MS8. I dont know why they didnt put all the outputs on one connector.

I have a few options I am thinking of.

1.) replace dash corner mid/tweet with just a tweet, run *passive *with woofer in front doors. 2-way coax in rear doors. stock center

2.) replace dash corner mid/tweet with just a tweet run *active *with woofer in front doors, and 2-way coax in rear doors. stock center

3.) replace dash corner mid/tweet with a new 2-way mid/tweet combo, 2-way coax in front and rear doors. stock center

sub isnt really that important right now cuz its easy to figure out.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> 10-4. yea now we are on the same page. I will probably replace everything save for the center speaker cuz i want to amp the door speakers, and the dash corners but leave the center just off the MS8. I should probably grab all the outputs from connector B and C on the stock amp cuz the bass channel (on connector A) can be created on the MS8. I dont know why they didnt put all the outputs on one connector.
> 
> I have a few options I am thinking of.
> 
> ...


I would go with option 2a: replace dash corner mid/tweet with just a tweet run *active *with woofer in front doors, and mid/woof in rear doors. stock center.

unless you just want some highs in the rear of the car, no tweeters in the rear is a better way to go. highs are very directional and will tend to pull your image to the rear of the car. if it were me personally, I would get rid of the rear door speakers entirely.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

So you dont think its worth putting a 2-way tweet/mid combo in the dash corners?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> So you dont think its worth putting a 2-way tweet/mid combo in the dash corners?


that is all up to you, man. some of the best sounding system i have ever heard were just a nice 6.5" midbass with a good quality tweeter that can play down to 3khz or so. (subs, too, of course) sometimes simple is best


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## Frank Drebin (May 30, 2011)

minbari said:


> yes, but more than likely their is some redundancy there. if you pick inputs from the sub, a door woofer, a mid and tweeter, you will get he whole signal summed together.


Yep, I've actually heard Andy say that on some with bigger door drivers you don't even need to have the sub input. The MS8 can equalize whatever lower frequencies are coming out of the front woofers.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

Frank Drebin said:


> Yep, I've actually heard Andy say that on some with bigger door drivers you don't even need to have the sub input. The MS8 can equalize whatever lower frequencies are coming out of the front woofers.



10-4 well now I know what signals I need to pick up, I just have to figure out what components I want to install. 

opinions welcome. nothing super expensive, but not the cheapest stuff either. I will be using JL amps.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Frank Drebin said:


> Yep, I've actually heard Andy say that on some with bigger door drivers you don't even need to have the sub input. The MS8 can equalize whatever lower frequencies are coming out of the front woofers.


that maybe true as long as they dont use any HPFs. if they HP the door speakers at 60hz, it is not going to be able restore the low end with no input from the sub. I am not saying you are wrong, just something to consider.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> that maybe true as long as they dont use any HPFs. if they HP the door speakers at 60hz, it is not going to be able restore the low end with no input from the sub. I am not saying you are wrong, just something to consider.


Well I will make sure I grab a sub, a door, the dash mid and the dash tweet. Should I grab the center as well or not worth it?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> Well I will make sure I grab a sub, a door, the dash mid and the dash tweet. Should I grab the center as well or not worth it?


wouldnt worry about the center. you should get all sonic info you need from those 4 sources.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> wouldnt worry about the center. you should get all sonic info you need from those 4 sources.


perfect. Now if only all those sources were on the same connector it would make things 10x easier!


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> perfect. Now if only all those sources were on the same connector it would make things 10x easier!


lol, that I cant help you with


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> lol, that I cant help you with


No worries, you have been great help anyways.

I saw a guy on here to a build where he cut his stock wires then added a connector on to it to make going back to stock easy, or going to his aftermarket stuff easy.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ya, even simple molex connectors will work for that. (those white ones)


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> ya, even simple molex connectors will work for that. (those white ones)


next I gotta learn how to solder. I am tired of crimp connectors.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

lol, well if you want any pointers, let me know. been an electronics tech/eng for 15 years


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> lol, well if you want any pointers, let me know. been an electronics tech/eng for 15 years


Sounds good. Know any good sites or videos for soldering? and recommend any soldering equipment? or just like a basic iron you can buy at radio shack.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I am sure if you google you can find something that will give you basic soldering instruction. that key to soldering is heat management and dont ever use the iron to melt the solder. the iron heats what you are going to solder and then the solder melts on that.

depending on how much you want to spend, a basic 25 watt iron will work. but I would recommend something like this that lets you control the heat. 700° is more than enough heat to solder most things. more heat does not equal better when soldering.

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100...28UC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319659914&sr=8-2


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

minbari said:


> I am sure if you google you can find something that will give you basic soldering instruction. that key to soldering is heat management and dont ever use the iron to melt the solder. the iron heats what you are going to solder and then the solder melts on that.
> 
> depending on how much you want to spend, a basic 25 watt iron will work. but I would recommend something like this that lets you control the heat. 700° is more than enough heat to solder most things. more heat does not equal better when soldering.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100...28UC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319659914&sr=8-2



Ok thanks, I'm gonna have to do some soldering in the car because the stock harness doesnt have a lot of play. So ill have to figure out how im gonna do that. Ill google some info too.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

can always get something like this instead 

http://www.amazon.com/WSTA6-Pyropen-Self-Igniting-Cordless-Soldering/dp/B000ICBX8S


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

Thank you good sir!


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## Filch (Dec 12, 2011)

I just picked op an 2012 Optima SX myself and am looking to upgrading the audio system. I'm thinking of using the Bit Ten. I see that the Audison Bit One has a spdif input, so am I correct in assuming that we would be able to splice the spdif wires from the HU out to the Bit Ten, and cut out any unnecessary conversions?

What I'm unsure of is the spdif input on the Bit One is expecting a signal on a 75-ohm coax cable, but splicing the wires off the HU would just be regular wire...

any thoughts on this?


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

Filch said:


> I just picked op an 2012 Optima SX myself and am looking to upgrading the audio system. I'm thinking of using the Bit Ten. I see that the Audison Bit One has a spdif input, so am I correct in assuming that we would be able to splice the spdif wires from the HU out to the Bit Ten, and cut out any unnecessary conversions?
> 
> What I'm unsure of is the spdif input on the Bit One is expecting a signal on a 75-ohm coax cable, but splicing the wires off the HU would just be regular wire...
> 
> any thoughts on this?


Hmm i have no idea. I am not familiar with the bit ten unit. 

Ive actually put this project on hold for a while. But I still have an MS8 laying around that I would use, if i dont sell it.


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## Filch (Dec 12, 2011)

blackknight87 said:


> Hmm i have no idea. I am not familiar with the bit ten unit.
> 
> Ive actually put this project on hold for a while. But I still have an MS8 laying around that I would use, if i dont sell it.


It's very similar to the MS8. Actually, I found the Bit Ten only has optical toslink for SPDIF, but the Bit One has both RCA/Coax and Toslink for spdif available. I want to try to stay in the digital domain as far as possible and have as few d/a conversions as possible.

I just don't know if you can splice the Optima head unit's 3 wire spdif out to a RCA coax connection somehow. I'm thinking there may be impedance problems. I'll have to ask some experts.


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## Verata (Feb 19, 2012)

I am glad to read about someone else dealing with this issue and I have two questions:

1) To the original poster - Knight, how is Bluetooth output using the new setup? I mean, do you hear whoever you're speaking to out of all your channels now? I would assume that the Bluetooth is working through the CAN BUS in the factory amp, and because everything is summed, you hear them out of all the channels - is this correct?

2) To the last poster, I actually went to Radio Shack today and the fella there instructed me that with those three SPDIF inputs to the amp, you take the positive to the tip of the RCA and all other negative/grounds you take to the outer ring.

Furthermore, if you have done this already, does your Bluetooth still work through your system? I also want to take digital as far down the line as I can and I REALLY want to scrap as much as possible on their back end.

Thanks!


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

minbari said:


> I am sure if you google you can find something that will give you basic soldering instruction. that key to soldering is heat management and dont ever use the iron to melt the solder. the iron heats what you are going to solder and then the solder melts on that.
> 
> depending on how much you want to spend, a basic 25 watt iron will work. but I would recommend something like this that lets you control the heat. 700° is more than enough heat to solder most things. more heat does not equal better when soldering.
> 
> Amazon.com: Weller WLC100 40-Watt Soldering Station: Home Improvement


I know your post is old, but to anybody looking, this unit has a variable temperature, but it is not temperature regulated. Regulated irons monitor the tip of the iron and adjust power accordingly to maintain temperature at the tip. In a model like this, your 700º setting may be 700º at idle, but once you put a heavy load on it, the temperature won't be maintained, leading to suboptimal soldering.

I would recommend a Weller WES51 (I've used them, great soldering irons), or a Hakko FX-888 (my personal iron). You can't go wrong with either, I went with a Hakko because after using both it and the Weller side by side, I preferred the feel of the Hakko.


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## Filch (Dec 12, 2011)

MY SPDIF install was successful. I didn't do the install myself. They were able to splice the wires and connect it to the SP/DIF in of the Bit One.

Everything works, the UVO , voice commands, etc. The only thing is that I have to control the volume with the Bit One. The output of the SP/DIF of the receiver is not attenuated by the volume control on the receiver. It's full output. So you'll need some form of external volume control.


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## Verata (Feb 19, 2012)

Filch, thanks for the information! I think I know what SPDIF wires I need to splice into to get the signal but that is interesting regarding there being no volume control... I guess that means there is currently communication between the external amp and the head unit for volume. I got a JBL MS-8 (price reasons) so although I know it has volume controls, it seems as though just tapping into the internal amp outputs for the processor may be the way to go.

They really did their best to not make this an easy task! :mean:


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## fhartell (Dec 26, 2016)

The top dash speakers are a mid & tweeter combined correct? Which wires off the harness are the tweeters & which are the Mid's?


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