# 12" Midbass suggestions



## enigma

Well, as the name implies, im looking for suggestions for an 12" midbass to go with my ES Full Body Pro Horns...mids will be mounted in fiberglassed door panels, would love to go with a ported pod but not sure if I can find a shop skilled enough to pull it off. If not, they will be pretty much IB, but the doors will have the usual treatment, (sealed and deaden). 

Im using a Eclipse 34230 amp for power (400w x 2 @ 4ohm) for the doors, so plenty of clean power on the midbass

Eclipse 34230 Premium (big clean two channel power)


Here are a few of the drivers im considering, but im def open to suggestions.

B&C 12NDL76 12" Neodymium Woofer Speaker Driver

Eminence Beta-12LTA 12" Full-Range/PA Driver

Faital Pro 12PR300 12" Mid-bass Speakers - Faital Pro 12PR300 mid-bass speaker and bass 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12PR300 600 watt 12" high efficiency of 99dB SPL woofer for all high power mid-bass and bass appl

Beyma Speakers - Beyma 12G40 speaker - Beyma 12G40 800 watt 12" woofer for all bass and mid-bass applications. Beyma 12G40 mid-bass and other Beyma 12" speakers here.


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## SkizeR

all of them seem solid except for the eminence. people do really love the beyma g40 speakers with horns it seems though


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## thehatedguy

JBL 2204H or 2206H too.


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## funkalicious

I second the JBL 2206. I own them and can vouch for their ability to punch you in the chest. Hard .


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## mikey7182

Third on either of the JBLs. I ran both the 2204 and 2206 vented and they are absolute animals. The 12NW76/12NDL76 are supposed to be badass as well. I've never used them personally but ran the 10NW64 for a bit and was very impressed. I use Ciare 10NDC-2.5 now and love them. There is a 12.64 NDW that would be the larger version of mine if you can find them.


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## Lycancatt

one thing to consider is I think all the drivers suggested and linked are eight ohm units, meaning you'd see 200 watts for each, not 400.


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## thehatedguy

But at 96 dB, that might not be a problem.


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## mikey7182

Lycancatt said:


> one thing to consider is I think all the drivers suggested and linked are eight ohm units, meaning you'd see 200 watts for each, not 400.


When I was using the JBLs, I had about 150w per woofer available at 8 ohms. Even with the gains set very conservatively, additional level reduction was done at the processor, and they were absolutely brutal while the cones hardly moved. I don't imagine they saw more than 50-60w most of the time I was listening, and I tend not to listen quietly. I gained a bit from the vented enclosure of course, but even in a sealed or IB-ish install, I would be impressed by someone who could tolerate anywhere close to 200w a side on these at full volume, let alone 400w.  Even at 200w, I imagine he'll have more headroom than he knows what to do with.


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## cajunner

don't the 2206 come in the G, as in 2206G, with 4 ohm impedance?

would a more hi-fi version using the foam surrounds work well too, or do you need the extra low compliance of the accordion?

what is it, the 2035, that people used to consider great drivers?


if it were me, and I was not bothered by price tags, I'd look into the JBL Everest stuff, some of those drivers look like they were meant for home more than the prosumer heavy duty 2206 pieces, which were designed for abuse and large power inputs over time, and not necessarily completely dedicated to the music reproduction as much as the duration.


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## thehatedguy

The problem is getting consumer JBL speakers...it doesn't happen too often. And getting it repaired if something were to happen to it would be impossible.

Besides, the Everest has 15s.


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## thehatedguy

There might be a G version.

If there isn't, you could make one in a couple of ways if you found blown ones and reconed them. One would be to use the old 1200GTi recone kit. Or you could use an aftermarket kit with a coil from the 1200GTi with the lighter 2206 cone.

If there isn't a factory JBL recone for it.

I will do some digging to see...I've looked before when I bought my 2204s.


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## mikey7182

There's a G version of the 15"- the 2226. I had a pair of them reconed. I'm not sure about the 12s though. Besides, although they are nominal 8 ohm drivers, most of the ones I've owned measured in the low to mid 5s at rest, compared to 3.6-3.8 on the Gs. The difference just isn't that significant. Not to mention the amp isn't driven as hard, etc.


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## enigma

The 8ohm vs 4ohm thing wasnt even considered an issue, since most of the drivers in question have such high efficiency, im certain they will put out plenty of output with a fraction of there rated RMS powers.....the B&C were at the top of my list, but sadly they no longer have a 4 ohm version of the 12NDL76 but thats still not a bad thing.

I like headroom, just like the fact my horns are 60w RMS, and ill be using another Eclipse amp to push them (100w x 2 4ohm, stereo) I know I would never even need anything close to that because of how efficient they are. My horns had my ears ringing being powered and crossed over running off my Alpine 9835 HU.

The JBLs do seriously have my attention and ive always heard good things about them. 

Guess Ill sit down and weight all variables, I do thank you all for your input, its always a pleasure to get advice from more experienced guys in this field


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## enigma

The funniest thing is, 12" midbass wasnt even something I was seriously considering for this car, I had planned to get a pair of Beyma 8G40s with some custom kicks and be done, but I got the itch to do something a bit more extreme for my love of SQ lol.


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## mikey7182

If you're looking for the JBL used (what I would do), look for the crayon/chalk writing on the back of the cone as that usually signifies an OEM cone or recone. You can usually find cashed baskets and motors for cheap and recone them. I think I paid $20/ea for some blown ones and $100/ea for them to be reconed.


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## enigma

mikey7182 said:


> If you're looking for the JBL used (what I would do), look for the crayon/chalk writing on the back of the cone as that usually signifies an OEM cone or recone. You can usually find cashed baskets and motors for cheap and recone them. I think I paid $20/ea for some blown ones and $100/ea for them to be reconed.



I will be doing some research this weekend...and thanks for the input, always enjoyed your builds especially that truck


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## BMWTUBED

I can vouch for the 2206 ported! I own one of mikey's old trucks...


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## subwoofery

4 ohm drivers if you're worried about available power from your amp  : 
B&C 12PS100 is a 12" powerful woofer - B&C Speakers - B&C 12" subwoofer for 3-way speaker systems. B&C 12PS100 powerful subwoofer speakers available now. 
Faital Pro 12PR300 12" Mid-bass Speakers - Faital Pro 12PR300 mid-bass speaker and bass 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12PR300 600 watt 12" high efficiency of 99dB SPL woofer for all high power mid-bass and bass appl 
Beyma Speakers - Beyma 12G40 speaker - Beyma 12G40 800 watt 12" woofer for all bass and mid-bass applications. Beyma 12G40 mid-bass and other Beyma 12" speakers here. 
Faital Pro 12FH500 Speakers - Faital Pro 12FH500 bass guitar speaker and subwoofer 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12FH500 1,000 watt 12" efficiency of 97dB SPL woofer for all high power mid-bass and bass applications 
Faital Pro 12HP1060 12" Speakers - Faital Pro 12HP1060 subwoofer 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12HP1060 2,000 watt 12" woofer for all high power bass applications. Faital Pro 12HP1060. 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo

subwoofery said:


> 4 ohm drivers if you're worried about available power from your amp  :
> B&C 12PS100 is a 12" powerful woofer - B&C Speakers - B&C 12" subwoofer for 3-way speaker systems. B&C 12PS100 powerful subwoofer speakers available now.
> Faital Pro 12PR300 12" Mid-bass Speakers - Faital Pro 12PR300 mid-bass speaker and bass 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12PR300 600 watt 12" high efficiency of 99dB SPL woofer for all high power mid-bass and bass appl
> Beyma Speakers - Beyma 12G40 speaker - Beyma 12G40 800 watt 12" woofer for all bass and mid-bass applications. Beyma 12G40 mid-bass and other Beyma 12" speakers here.
> Faital Pro 12FH500 Speakers - Faital Pro 12FH500 bass guitar speaker and subwoofer 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12FH500 1,000 watt 12" efficiency of 97dB SPL woofer for all high power mid-bass and bass applications
> Faital Pro 12HP1060 12" Speakers - Faital Pro 12HP1060 subwoofer 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12HP1060 2,000 watt 12" woofer for all high power bass applications. Faital Pro 12HP1060.
> 
> Kelvin


the mega list


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## oabeieo

I have to try this jbl. Or will my Beyma sound like almost same thing?


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## thehatedguy

The JBL will be on another level...more impact, more dynamics, more everything including space.


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## oabeieo

thehatedguy said:


> The JBL will be on another level...more impact, more dynamics, more everything including space.


Mmmmmmmmmmm  
Next commission check! It's so on! Looks like I know what I'm going to be thinking about for the next two weeks straight.


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## oabeieo

O grief that's a 12" ....eek .... Isn't there a 8" version of that jbl ? And will that one be better than my Beyma ?


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## mikey7182

oabeieo said:


> O grief that's a 12" ....eek .... Isn't there a 8" version of that jbl ? And will that one be better than my Beyma ?


8" drivers are for midrange, haven't you heard?  The JBL 2118H is one of the most popular 8" mids to pair with horns. If you're doing a 2-way, that's the mid I would choose (and have, many times). I don't know if JBL sprinkled magic dust on their old pro drivers or what, but I've never heard one that didn't blow me away, and have an edge over the competition.


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## thehatedguy

He has a set of Audax PR170M0s for dedicated midrange too.

Yeah, 2118 is a nice driver...really nice.

Man, you guys are making me want to do a 2 channel horn setup over this multichannel system with the Tannoys I have.


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## oabeieo

Oh the pr170s are so smooth. They are way way more of a mid than I anticipated it took me by surprise , I just got done a huge job at work that was 14k$ in labor that took me 3 months to do. Now I should have time to finish my install and do something snazzy these will be a part of the build . I hooked them up to take a listen and uninstalled them temporarily because they don't fit my pods I'm going to have to re make them . I had no clue by at the beginning of my quest I would end up with jbl drivers and a audax mid. Coming from dyns and morels especially




thehatedguy said:


> He has a set of Audax PR170M0s for dedicated midrange too.
> 
> Yeah, 2118 is a nice driver...really nice.
> 
> Man, you guys are making me want to do a 2 channel horn setup over this multichannel system with the Tannoys I have.


Tannoy . It's been a while since I heard that name. I remember the victorys that had a v shaped port and a coincidental tweet. You have those speakers in a car? Intresting the tweeter was like tiny iirc


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## oabeieo

mikey7182 said:


> 8" drivers are for midrange, haven't you heard?  The JBL 2118H is one of the most popular 8" mids to pair with horns. If you're doing a 2-way, that's the mid I would choose (and have, many times). I don't know if JBL sprinkled magic dust on their old pro drivers or what, but I've never heard one that didn't blow me away, and have an edge over the competition.


where does it start to loose it's magic ? I'm guessing right under 200hz if it's anything like the Beyma


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## mikey7182

oabeieo said:


> where does it start to loose it's magic ? I'm guessing right under 200hz if it's anything like the Beyma


You mean on the bottom end? I used to run them from 100-800hz. They're not a true midbass, but they benefit from cabin gain and can do very well. If you had any way to construct ported enclosures for them, JBL says that extends their usable output down to 70hz. They really shine in the snare/vocal range. You may consider doing something unconventional like me, and crossing your horns a lot higher than is typical so you can let those Audax do their job and shine.


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## oabeieo

mikey7182 said:


> You mean on the bottom end? I used to run them from 100-800hz. They're not a true midbass, but they benefit from cabin gain and can do very well. If you had any way to construct ported enclosures for them, JBL says that extends their usable output down to 70hz. They really shine in the snare/vocal range. You may consider doing something unconventional like me, and crossing your horns a lot higher than is typical so you can let those Audax do their job and shine.


I was thinking that exact thing. When I first hooked them up I was not expecting to have no bass at all and be so so so sensitive . In fact, I think I'm going to lean strongly towards a small horn flare that will load down to about 2.5k and let the audax play up to 2.5k ish . I will be able to have them in the a pillar with the horn on dash and have the 6.5 about 8 degrees off axis so beaming won't be a issue for me . I'm really excited to start the fab . After I eqed them a bit and turned the gain way way way down I really like how they play and the phase sounds so correct between 800 and 2k it's very articulate and precise . It's wierd how a really crappy looking speaker can do so so well. I really love how 800hz area dosent sound like a speaker in a coffee can . I don't have to cut 800 12db to get it to sound natural. Like Jason said tho and it's true they are more like a 6.9" outer diameter but shallow enough to keep in the a pillar. This speaker is getting me excited. Coming from dynaudio and morels , which I love the sound of it going to take a whole diffrent approach to tuning . .... Yeah ... I'm really excited to use them.


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## thehatedguy

I felt the same way about the Audax...ugly as sin, simple speaker, but man do they sound so OPEN.

And I am not shy about how much I like Dynaudio...just a different sound.


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## mitchyz250f

At levels that cannot be tolerated (in my car) for more than 20 seconds my JBL 2204s don't seem to be moving more than 2mm total crossed @80Hz. Probably 50w like Mikey said. 200 watts is much more than enough.

'Chad' said that the 2204s sounded better than the 2206s, more detailed/quicker. The 2206s really address issues with the high db requirements in a live situation. Not a concern in the confines of a car. 

Light colored cones indicate speaker that have been used outdoors more. I have seen 6 old 2204's and they all had the original JBL cones but still be on the lookout for aftermarket cones. They will not perform the same. Like Mikey said look for the chalk (actually crayon) on the cone. 

The best thing about the 2204s is that they can be found on craigslist and eBay for about $100 each.


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## oabeieo

thehatedguy said:


> I felt the same way about the Audax...ugly as sin, simple speaker, but man do they sound so OPEN.
> 
> And I am not shy about how much I like Dynaudio...just a different sound.


I'm worried what people will think when they see them mounted . Ok I'm not worried . But the morel is so sexy. And for some reason somewhere in my audio logic deep in my brain there's a notion that 3" voice coils are the best and nothing can perform as good and all other speakers have power compression and dyns and morels are just better. .... I don't know how I started to think like this maybe because I love to pop that morel out and just look at the basket and how it's so cool looking and I can see the shining copper ring on the titanium former that blings , and the beautiful polished chrome magnet assembly , and that huge coil. .... I can't seem to break this way of thinking. I am actually a bit saddened I'm going to tAke them out. When I get in my car and see a 6.5" in my frikkin a pillar I smile so big cause it's so awesome and not many have done it and it sounds so so good right next to a horn , and that morel looks so good , and I'm going to a paper cone backwards surround chincy looking speaker. It's a hard transition for me and I wouldn't do it if that audax didn't sound so nice. Cause dam! It SCREAMS so clear on like 30w. ......maybe I'll use grills on this time around . Lol


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## thehatedguy

Yeah, she's not a looker for sure...only a face a parent could love.

Their cousins the PHL 1120s are a better looking speaker, little smaller (I think), but finding them is HARD to do since ORCA no longer distributes them in NA.


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## SQram

I'm in a similar boat, I love my Dyn 182's but I think they need a lot of room to breath. I had them mounted in the kick area with the floor cut out to let them breath. Long story short, I welded the steel back in due to road noise and left a 5" x 2" opening to the outside...I now have an enormous peak around the 200Hz. area which I've been figting with EQ.

I'm temped to throw my Veritas midbass back in (JBL 2118 clone) to see if it does any better in the confined space, just have to make some adapters. I probably wouldn't hesitate if a pair of the JBL's popped up either.


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## oabeieo

SQram said:


> I'm in a similar boat, I love my Dyn 182's but I think they need a lot of room to breath. I had them mounted in the kick area with the floor cut out to let them breath. Long story short, I welded the steel back in due to road noise and left a 5" x 2" opening to the outside...I now have an enormous peak around the 200Hz. area which I've been figting with EQ.
> 
> I'm temped to throw my Veritas midbass back in (JBL 2118 clone) to see if it does any better in the confined space, just have to make some adapters. I probably wouldn't hesitate if a pair of the JBL's popped up either.


I have my 182s in.3 sealed with playing 50-125 bW6 they defiantly do what the sub in the back cannot. I have 63,80,100,125 down about 3 db and the gain is low and they sound great! The Beyma plays 125 LR2 to 315LR2 and the dash morel plays 400 Bw1 to 1.2 LR4 

My plan is use the audax to 400hz LR2 and if I get the jbl just use it the same as the Beyma


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## SQram

*12&quot; Midbass suggestions*



oabeieo said:


> I have my 182s in.3 sealed with playing 50-125 bW6 they defiantly do what the sub in the back cannot. I have 63,80,100,125 down about 3 db and the gain is low and they sound great! The Beyma plays 125 LR2 to 315LR2 and the dash morel plays 400 Bw1 to 1.2 LR4
> 
> My plan is use the audax to 400hz LR2 and if I get the jbl just use it the same as the Beyma



You have all EQ bands cut 3db in the Dyn's bandwidth? You might as well set them at 0db and roll back on the gain a touch (unless it's a passive setup)?

I might seal mine up and give them a try, but I have a sneaking suspicion the response might get a little more ragged...


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## Victor_inox

Your search is over http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/198394-vifa-neo-subs-4-midbass-bnib.html


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## Beau

I use the following drivers as midbass (different setups) and am pleased:

Dayton Audio PA380-8 15" Pro Woofer

Eminence Deltalite II 2512 Neo 12" Speaker Driver


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## Beau

I use the following drivers as midbass (different setups) and am pleased:

Dayton Audio PA380-8 15" Pro Woofer

Eminence Deltalite II 2512 Neo 12" Speaker Driver

Clearly, one does not meet your 12" criteria.


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## mitchyz250f

oabeieo said:


> I'm worried what people will think when they see them mounted . Ok I'm not worried . But the morel is so sexy. And for some reason somewhere in my audio logic deep in my brain there's a notion that 3" voice coils are the best and nothing can perform as good and all other speakers have power compression and dyns and morels are just better. .... I don't know how I started to think like this maybe because I love to pop that morel out and just look at the basket and how it's so cool looking and I can see the shining copper ring on the titanium former that blings , and the beautiful polished chrome magnet assembly , and that huge coil. .... I can't seem to break this way of thinking. I am actually a bit saddened I'm going to tAke them out. When I get in my car and see a 6.5" in my frikkin a pillar I smile so big cause it's so awesome and not many have done it and it sounds so so good right next to a horn , and that morel looks so good , and I'm going to a paper cone backwards surround chincy looking speaker. It's a hard transition for me and I wouldn't do it if that audax didn't sound so nice. Cause dam! It SCREAMS so clear on like 30w. ......maybe I'll use grills on this time around . Lol


That's what grills and grill cloth are for.


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