# The Sound of Hybrid Audio



## Pjrm68 (Dec 7, 2013)

Okay, for those of you who already own Hybrid Audio speakers, how would you describe the sound? Are they bright, harsh, warm, etc.?

How would you describe their overall sound to someone who hasn't been able to listen to them? I'm interested mostly in the Imagines, but I'll take any input on any of the different models.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I owned the imagines...I would say they sound very neutral, almost dry sounding, but in a good way. They are not bright..they are not warm. And they are not harsh.

A very polite sound IMO.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I've heard non tuned/eq'd Imagines and thought the midrange was very forward sounding, not my cup of tea. The Clarus were much better, also non tuned/eq'd. These were on a soundboard FWIW. I really want to hear the L1 Pro R2/Legatia SE.


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## Serieus (May 27, 2011)

Hoptologist said:


> I've heard non tuned/eq'd Imagines and thought the midrange was very forward sounding, not my cup of tea. The Clarus were much better, also non tuned/eq'd. These were on a soundboard FWIW. I really want to hear the L1 Pro R2/Legatia SE.


in the car (at least in my case) the midrange isn't really forward sounding or in your face. on a soundboard i can see how that might be the case though, given that they're designed as coaxials to be mounted in the door with both the tweeter and the mid off axis


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

I don't have tons of experience, but I had Infinity and MB Quart (older, old school models) prior...

My take?

The Imagines are incredible midbass drivers when installed correctly.

I don't find them "Dry" at all. I find them "alive" and crisp. Warm? Maybe, I tend to listen to midbass heavy EDM/Psy/electronica...and I drive them hard.

To me? Fantastic drivers, I could not be more pleased. I do tune them via my DSP.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

im sure you can demo them at sound FX near the woodbury commons of your close enough (i see that your in NY)


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## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

I've heard both the imagines and the legatias in a sq front stage setup. The legatias we're run active and imagines just passive. They both sounded good. I found the install and position and angle of them adapted to the car, makes a huge difference on how they sound. It all depends on your tastes etc. I found the imagines to lack some mid bass compared to some of the other brands I have heard. For me personally I like the mid bass quite loud and deep, usually the HPF at around 65 hz for the mids. But if you get the HATs then buy what you can afford for the front stage. The final sound depends on the install. You have the tweeters more than about 15 inches apart, then it won't sound right. I have heard the lower end hybrids (in a properly designed and installed front stage) sound better than the higher end hybrids in a bad install (no deadening, wrong staging and angles etc).
But overall you can have a very nice sounding sq front stage with any of hybrids speakers, they sound very nice if installed right. HAT speakers are in my top 5 favorite front stage setups.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

My Unities are very neutral with a dash of sweet, I can listen to them for hours without fatigue. I do wish they had more midbass though but I have been spoiled with the Dyns in my truck. The Unities have much better midrange/vocals with no coloration. The tweeter is very detailed but not harsh, especially good for long drives where you just want good sound and it doesn't get tiring. They don't do any special tricks and they don't have that sparkle that I've come to love with ribbons but they are some of the best sounding conventional drivers I have heard.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Pjrm68 said:


> Okay, for those of you who already own Hybrid Audio speakers, how would you describe the sound? Are they bright, harsh, warm, etc.?
> 
> How would you describe their overall sound to someone who hasn't been able to listen to them? I'm interested mostly in the Imagines, but I'll take any input on any of the different models.


I owned the legaita L1pro L3Se and L6se

The only driver that was worth buying is the L6se in that set. But in all honesty for the money there are other options I would go with aside from the L6.

The mids are somewhat sharp and are somewhat lacking in detail, they sounded good but not 400$ good. 

The tweeter sounded 100% plastic complete waste of money there. 

Sorry that is how I feel. All hype, aside from the L6. The L6 vs the L6SE are virtually the same driver. So don't waste your money on the L6SE.

Also Scott needs to spend more money on R&D and less money on marketing. Marketing is driving that company, you wouldn't believe all the guys that recommended HAT to me when I was inquiring about the best SQ drivers 3 years ago I was naive enough to give him my money. 

Long story short, I spent 1/2 the money on PHD drivers to replace the HATS and was much happier with the sound. 

Just my 2 cents, sorry if I offended all the HAT lovers that like to look at that shiny metal post in the center of the speakers.They look beautiful, but you can do better with your money... Look at illusion audio carbons they absolutely destroy all of HAT's offerings and are close to the same pricepoint. Or scans, or morel, or dynaudio... all rock solid choices which have a more detailed and natural sound than HAT.

Hope this helps you.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

WestCo said:


> I owned the legaita L1pro L3Se and L6se
> 
> The only driver that was worth buying is the L6se in that set. But in all honesty for the money there are other options I would go with aside from the L6.
> 
> ...


Yup, that's one man opinion ^^^ L1pro sounds plastic? Please elaborate on what plastic sounds like? I'm running the L1pro at home and L1proSE's in my car they both very smooth, detailed, and requires very little eq(when installed right).


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I've never owned anything HAT but have heard quite a few cars with their products. They have always seemed to have kind of a dry sound to them. Maybe it's the uncoated paper cone? Not what my ears are looking for but certainly have their place in the market. All that said, trust the people who have run something for a long time. An opinion after over a year of use is worth far more than the usually glowing review of a product that just got installed yesterday.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Subscribed

I'm curious to know more about those PHD drivers, specs links, sources etc.

Any opinions on Hat vs Hertz ML and HSK?


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

I’m currently running Imagine 6.5” as dedicated mid bass.
In a properly deadened and sealed door the imagine mid basses kick a whole lotta ass.
They are very tight, full, accurate, and clean. They blend very well into the sub and mid ranges and will get down and boogie if you ask them too.
I have mine crossed a 50hz 24db slope and 300hz 24db slope feeding them 100 watts of Zapco power each.
These replaced the Peerless SLS 6.5”s which are a great mid bass driver but the imagines just do everything a little better and a little cleaner.
Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to use the imagine tweeter so I can’t comment on those.

Like everything audio related its really all preference on what sounds good to you.
While there are some very good writers on this forum I don’t think any of their descriptions of the speakers sound will benefit you as even if they can perfectly describe the sound they aren’t listening to it with your ears.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

The peerless sls 6.5's should be cleaner than the imagines in midbass, or somethings wrong with them. The L6SE'S only have 3.2mm of linear one way xmax, making them only good to about 80hz. I could never get my imagines to sound good lower than that either, and it definitely wasn't an install issue. The kick panels were fully vented and as solid as concrete, because they were literally made of concrete. Didn't matter, playing them below 80hz makes them play through there fs, which is distortion. 

I personally wouldn't use the imagines again, not enough thermal power handling for a midbass, or linear xmax for that matter. I wouldn't use the L6SE's as anything but a large midrange. Not enough linear xmax for real midbass duty. My L1Pro R2's never sounded right crossed below 4000hz, despite the 580hz fs on them. I never measured, but I expect the distortion is rising quickly below that point.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I would describe their sound as lifeless or dull. They're perfect for competition systems, but nothing I'd want to listen to on a daily basis.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

AVIDEDTR said:


> Yup, that's one man opinion ^^^ L1pro sounds plastic? Please elaborate on what plastic sounds like? I'm running the L1pro at home and L1proSE's in my car they both very smooth, detailed, and requires very little eq(when installed right).


The tweeter resonates/sounds like it has a plastic chamber. 

The tweeters aren't sharp, nore are they void of detail, but there are better options in the price range to my ear. (Not to offend you or make you angry). I couldn't stand the sound. 

If you want to hear what I mean play a song that has a bell ringing and listen carefully, especially at the initial impact. The sound wasn't realistic to my ears (no the tweeters weren't sharp but I felt the L3 was mildly sharp.)

You don't hear much "bad" said about HAT online, because Scott gets his way and has negative threads/posts deleted. There were several reviews that were deleted from this site and others that did not read favorably for him or his company. Heck these posts will probably be deleted as well... lmao

The top tier competitors generally don't use them. Take a walk around Meca, you will see Focals, Dyns, Scans in the cars that win.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

WestCo said:


> The tweeter resonates/sounds like it has a plastic chamber.
> 
> The tweeters aren't sharp, nore are they void of detail, but there are better options in the price range to my ear. (Not to offend you or make you angry). I couldn't stand the sound.
> 
> ...


To be fair, Hybrid does well in competition.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

L1ProSE sounds best at 5.6 K and up IMO, if I want something to play at 1K I'll utilize my Mid range. It's a very detailed yet laid back... It's one of the best tweeters I've used and I've used plenty. They work well for my particular speaker placement, and install likewise.

We can all sit here, having a pissing contest, bash Scott or whatever people see fit to do. Bottom line they're great speakers, if they were $150 at madisound they'd be the ultimate forum boner on here... 

Bottom line is install, tuning, many other factors determine how well a system performs. I everyday I see these what speaker is best or what do these sound like... 
IMO the best thing to get out a listen to cars, see what's best for your ears, not somebody else's. you be your own judge...


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> I would describe their sound as lifeless or dull. They're perfect for competition systems, but nothing I'd want to listen to on a daily basis.


Yeah that's what I was trying to say in a roundabout way. I prefer more of a live sound that's laid back enough to turn up loud enough with little or no fatigue to drown out wind and road noise from my rolling land yacht. Kirk Proffit nailed the sound I prefer with his TL. And he's the bar I've been chasing all these years.


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

southpawskater said:


> I’m currently running Imagine 6.5” as dedicated mid bass.
> In a properly deadened and sealed door the imagine mid basses kick a whole lotta ass.
> They are very tight, full, accurate, and clean. They blend very well into the sub and mid ranges and will get down and boogie if you ask them too.
> I have mine crossed a 50hz 24db slope and 300hz 24db slope feeding them 100 watts of Zapco power each.
> ...



I concur implicitly. Some people say the Imagine tweeter isn't bright...if they heard my car with them...they would change their mind! I like them but since I went component with them, I have had to radically revise my response curve or else my ears will bleed!

I love my mid driver. It digs deep, it may have that warm fuzzy happy distortion sometimes, but I think I like that a little. I cross mine at 65/48 LR and they do indeed make blending the sub easy. My door is very well sealed as well. These things are like mini-woofers.


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## MorganM (Dec 16, 2013)

Where was this thread when I ordered Imagine 6.5s on Monday??? I need a high sensitivity/ efficiency 6.5 component or co-ax to use with my stock head unit!


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## Pjrm68 (Dec 7, 2013)

Wow...lots of varied opinions here. I think what I've learned from this thread is that I definitely have to listen to them for myself, which I probably should have known in the first place.


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## evangojason (Feb 12, 2010)

WestCo said:


> You don't hear much "bad" said about HAT online, because Scott gets his way and has negative threads/posts deleted. There were several reviews that were deleted from this site and others that did not read favorably for him or his company. Heck these posts will probably be deleted as well... lmao


It has been explained many times that the review was done improperly and that is the only reason it was removed. Most of your comment get removed because they are personal attacks on Scott and have no valuable information to the community. Hybrid Audio Technology isn't for everyone, but like it's already been mentioned in this post at the end of the day they win plenty of competitions and have achieved things no other speaker has.


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

For every great review you can show me, I can find a bad review, and vice versa.

The fact of the matter is, the Imagine line is a great choice, and can be a very good driver, it is mostly in the install and tuning.

There are always haters. There are always fan boys.

Try them for yourself, don't second guess your decision, and don't let other people decide for you what is good or not.


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

MorganM said:


> Where was this thread when I ordered Imagine 6.5s on Monday??? I need a high sensitivity/ efficiency 6.5 component or co-ax to use with my stock head unit!


They should be great for you. These speakers do very well on 30-50 watts.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

My biggest problem is just price. Imagines are what, $300 a set now? For that price, there are much better options.


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## MorganM (Dec 16, 2013)

therapture said:


> They should be great for you. These speakers do very well on 30-50 watts.


Thanks! I've been thinking it may make sense to add a mini amp behind the dash, but it's difficult to choose one- the reviews are mixed for all of them.



TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> My biggest problem is just price. Imagines are what, $300 a set now? For that price, there are much better options.


Can you cite examples, please?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm on my phone, so its a little harder to search, but the vifa xt25 is a much better tweeter, in any of its configurations. They can be had for between $40-60 a pair, depending on which one you get. Many people have compared the silver flute 6.5" speakers to the hat speakers, i cant comment on that until maybe next month, but if they do play as well as the imagines, those can also be had for $60 a pair. If you want a strict midbass, there are many better options. The Peerless sls 6.5"s have more linear travel than the imagines, meaning they play cleaner, and have a much lower fs, meaning they play lower. Remember that the free air resonance on the imagines is between 75-80hz. That means no matter what, crossing it near or below that, you are playing through a large distortion peak.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Edit


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

MorganM said:


> Thanks! I've been thinking it may make sense to add a mini amp behind the dash, but it's difficult to choose one- the reviews are mixed for all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you cite examples, please?


Keep in mind the imagines cost hat $10 per speaker, according to their build house, and are an off the shelf unit.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Keep in mind the imagines cost hat $10 per speaker, according to their build house, and are an off the shelf unit.


I doubt that

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

The XT25 tweeter, while appealing on paper above 2khz, is very dull and lifeless. It lacks a ton of detail that I was able to recover with CSS LD25X tweeters. Eyes closed, my friends and I have chosen the CSS every time against my old XT25's. I haven't heard any of the HAT Legatia stuff before but just wanted to mention this before people reading this thread suddenly find the urge to buy XT25's as a HAT L1 alternative.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

IMO- seems like well built product- more or less neutral as far as tone- if you pay retail it's a bit on the spendy side. Just like most speaker companies they can sound great or like crap depending on the install and tune. 

best to find a dealer and take a listen.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> I doubt that
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


It's very probable. The cost per unit from chinese buildhouses is shockingly cheap. Like less than 75 bucks for a whole component set cheap. Most buildhouses will build a few different models and companies will tweak the buildhouses's model to fit their needs whether it is a different cone material, different crossover, or a change in alloys, etc. 

A few examples:
buildhouse model #1
tweaked #1 set
buildhouse model #2
tweaked #2 set
buildhouse model #3
tweaked #3 set


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

You can't just find some ****ty Chinese build house and expect to get Greta components for $75.lol. Did you also notice that you needed to order 50-75 sets to get then at that price.

I didn't see the imagine on there, maybe my eyes are deceiving me...

Vifa XT -25 is about as dry as a $5 bottle of wine. Peerless SLS don't even sound like a mid bass, they sound more like a subwoofer in my experience, but guess the look good on paper so the HAVE to be great!! Anachcys are another example of a driver that's good on paper but isn't really a mid bass. Looking at numbers on paper. I've soon numbers, that completely are off from what ZAPH tested as well.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I've heard the sls installed in a S2000, playing midbass, and it sounded great. If you want some distortion in your midbass, its not for you. 

As far as the xt25's, ill compare them against the L1Pro R2's when I get a new set in. I have compared the neo xt25's against the imagine tweeters, and its not even a comparison. The imagine tweeters have far more distortion.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Architect7 said:


> The XT25 tweeter, while appealing on paper above 2khz, is very dull and lifeless. It lacks a ton of detail that I was able to recover with CSS LD25X tweeters. Eyes closed, my friends and I have chosen the CSS every time against my old XT25's. I haven't heard any of the HAT Legatia stuff before but just wanted to mention this before people reading this thread suddenly find the urge to buy XT25's as a HAT L1 alternative.


If you didn't switch between tweeters instantaneously, the comparison isn't really fair. Especially if they weren't eq'd to the same frequency response.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

I have heard the xt25 in both an MTM in my home project and high in the door of a coworkers silverado. They have to be one of my favorite tweeters.

If i had the ability to run active i would have jumped on the xt25's and silverflutes from the get go. And I still believe I will be going that route as my next upgrade. I just wish vifa still made the PL18, my personal favorite mid for a 2-way to my ears, but they are not made anymore.

I know, i said nothing about HAT's

EDIT: Let's all keep in mind that everyones ears and everyones brains are different. For example my absolute favorite speakers were a set of radioshack floor standing with a 18 inch midbass a 4 inch mid and a 2 inch cone "tweeter"


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> If you didn't switch between tweeters instantaneously, the comparison isn't really fair. Especially if they weren't eq'd to the same frequency response.


Both eq'd with a MiniDSP/REW and mounted next to each other, levels matched for impedance and instantly changed from one to the other during the same songs via laptop. It was like turning the lights on and off, the XT25 is for people who are used to high distortion metal domes. Very laid back and don't really seem to try. They were missing a vast amount of detail compared to the CSS tweeters. Even used with a Monacor waveguide, the XT25 still suffered.

I will say that the Vifas imaged better but once you toed the CSS tweeters towards the listener, all bets were off.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Where was it crossed?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Viva PL's were budget Scan Revs. 

Great speakers.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Where was it crossed?


We tested 1600hz, 2khz, 2250hz and 2.5khz. 48db/octave with a SEAS Excel W15CY001 mid. At all frequencies the XT25 was missing detail, especially well above the crossover frequency. The CSS was able to articulate complex passages much better at both low and high volume and sounded better down low, especially at the 1600hz cutoff. Even more importantly, it is one of the "sweetest" and nicest tweeters I have ever heard and has detail I have only heard with ribbons. Extremely low distortion too, definitely a higher end tweeter than its price would lead you to believe.

Don't get me wrong, the XT25 is much less expensive than the CSS or anything from HAT but it is by no mean a giant killer in my experience. It is merely a mediocre tweeter that sounds acceptable. Definitely not something I want in any of my systems.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

bassfromspace said:


> Viva PL's were budget Scan Revs.
> 
> Great speakers.


Yup yup, brings a tear to my eye. There's just something I like about the low Fs drivers. Reminds me of the Silver Flutes and the RS180, both of wich i would like to hear some time soon.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Architect7 said:


> We tested 1600hz, 2khz, 2250hz and 2.5khz. 48db/octave with a SEAS Excel W15CY001 mid. At all frequencies the XT25 was missing detail, especially well above the crossover frequency. The CSS was able to articulate complex passages much better at both low and high volume and sounded better down low, especially at the 1600hz cutoff. Even more importantly, it is one of the "sweetest" and nicest tweeters I have ever heard and has detail I have only heard with ribbons. Extremely low distortion too, definitely a higher end tweeter than its price would lead you to believe.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the XT25 is much less expensive than the CSS or anything from HAT but it is by no mean a giant killer in my experience. It is merely a mediocre tweeter that sounds acceptable. Definitely not something I want in any of my systems.


Got a link to the CSS tweeters? Ive never heard of em (or im just having a brain fart)


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

mmiller said:


> You can't just find some ****ty Chinese build house and expect to get Greta components for $75.lol. Did you also notice that you needed to order 50-75 sets to get then at that price.
> 
> I didn't see the imagine on there, maybe my eyes are deceiving me...


The links are to exemplify how cheap a company can get their component sets made from a buildhouse...


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Considering that the xt25 is barely better than the scan revelators ring radiator in distortion, as long as its crossed steep at 2500hz or above, I wouldn't call it mediocre. Also, keep in mind 3rd order distortion can often be mistaken for more detail.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Considering that the xt25 is barely better than the scan revelators ring radiator in distortion, as long as its crossed steep at 2500hz or above, I wouldn't call it mediocre. Also, keep in mind 3rd order distortion can often be mistaken for more detail.


Check out Jeff Bagby's test of the LD25X here, some of the lowest distortion numbers ever recorded for a dome tweeter:

http://creativesound.ca/pdf/JBLD25X.pdf

I'd say try a listen for yourself, I used to be a huge fan of dark, neutral, laid back tweeters because I hated forward sibilant metal domes. Then I discovered better alternatives and I've been giving away my two pairs of XT25's to friends ever since.



REGULARCAB said:


> Got a link to the CSS tweeters? Ive never heard of em (or im just having a brain fart)


Looks like CSS replaced them with the LD22F and C models on their website, I haven't tried the LD22 yet but I'd like to. It will be interesting to compare since the LD22 sells for $70/pr. vs. the LD25X at $200/pr.+. I think I have three NIB LD25X pairs sitting around for when I was going to run them in my home theater before I settled on RAW Acoustics line arrays.

Here's a post on diyaudio with lots of info/documentation:
Creative Sound Solutions: CSS LD25X - diyAudio


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Architect7 said:


> Check out Jeff Bagby's test of the LD25X here, some of the lowest distortion numbers ever recorded for a dome tweeter:
> 
> http://creativesound.ca/pdf/JBLD25X.pdf
> 
> ...


Thanks ill take a look. Im always down for being exposed to new products.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Just saw that link on the css tweets. That said, id still take the xt25's over the imagine tweets.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

For $25 dollars id take the XT25 over just about anything. But then again im from Arlington not Bellevue... (sorry shameless jab, i grew up in Mill Creek actually)


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

For the price, agreed. But the XT25 didn't impress me much over the Imagine tweeters I've heard. Though they were in different installs so not as easily compared for me.

I've heard that the SEAS DXT merges XT25 neutrality with metal dome detail. Might be worth a look though there is no vehicle-friendly neo version of the DXT.




REGULARCAB said:


> For $25 dollars id take the XT25 over just about anything. But then again im from Arlington not Bellevue... (sorry shameless jab, i grew up in Mill Creek actually)


Haha, yeah standard of living is a killer here, we're in a tiny house in an average area and the cost is outrageous. And it just keeps going up.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

who is the man behind the Vifa XT?

who is the man behind the CSS LD25x?

it's a double-edged sword, using a man's reputation to push speakers, it appears that Hybrid's owner chooses speakers with properties he desires, from a selection of market-ready examples.

someone like James B. Lansing, might have built his speaker to his own idea of the best he could, there's a difference there.

and it's rare to find a new product available that moves the state of the art, or a home-grown engineer figuring out an innovation that helps move the science forward.

looking at the new D2 compression driver from JBL, that's new.

using XBL tech on tweeters, that's relatively new.

I don't know if there's anything new about Hybrid's line of products, and maybe that's a good thing.


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