# Stetsom vs. JL Audio



## C3 Customs

Which class D amplifier performs better?

JL Audio's Slash 1000/1v2
JL Audio 1000/1v2 Amplifiers - Car Audio Amps & Amplifiers

or

Stetsom's 1k5h 1ohm version
Stetsom - Amplifiers

What are your thoughts, I want to know what you think.

Why/How did you make your choice?


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## quality_sound

Arc 4000SE.


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## C3 Customs

quality_sound said:


> Arc 4000SE.


That is like 4 times the power lol and probably 5 times the price for the stetsom.


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## benny

naw, the SE does its 4kW at 1 ohm, so similar power, but not class D


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## Lanson

Which one costs more?


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## C3 Customs

The JL Audio costs more


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## benny

I have a hard time believing that tiny Stetsom can make 1kW as effortlessly or as reliably as the JL.


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## C3 Customs

Why is it so hard to believe that the tiny Stetsom amp could make 1Kw as effortlessly or as reliably as the JL?


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## quality_sound

History for one. Before you posted the link I'd never even heard of Stetsom and it took me a minute to realize it _wasn't_ the hat maker...

FWIW, the 4000SE is RATED at 4K but they'll make considerably more than that if your power supply can keep up.  But if you onlyy need about 100 Watts a 2300SE will do a rated 1300 at 4 Ohms mono, a pair of 500.1 Minis at 2 Ohms will do a solid 1000 Watts, the PDX 1.1000 is another option as well. There's lots of options.


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## C3 Customs

Will any of the amps that you mentioned do rated power @ 12.6V? 
2300SE 61% (Efficiency at rated 2ohm Stereo) and pulls 184amps @ 1ohm, I'll pass
PDX 1.1000 does rated power @ 14.4V not rated for 1 ohm
Thank you for the options.


The stestom puts out 1513Wrms @ 1ohm with 12.6V and 95% efficient. 
The JL Audio puts out 1000 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V).


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## benny

HA! 95% percent efficient? Does that little bastard not put out ANY heat? Now I'm REALLY skeptical.












^^THAT little thing? How can it have the parts count to make that power reliably? Also, at 144A current draw, you expect us to believe that that little brick sucks back that much juice and 95% of it DOESNT make heat?


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## quality_sound

C3 Customs said:


> Will any of the amps that you mentioned do rated power @ 12.6V?
> 2300SE 61% (Efficiency at rated 2ohm Stereo) and pulls 184amps @ 1ohm, I'll pass
> PDX 1.1000 does rated power @ 14.4V not rated for 1 ohm
> Thank you for the options.
> 
> 
> The stestom puts out 1513Wrms @ 1ohm with 12.6V and 95% efficient.
> The JL Audio puts out 1000 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V).


The 4000SE actually makes LESS power with more voltage but everything else is rated at 14.4V AFAIK. 

And I agree with the above. There is no way that amp in the picture is making 1000 Watts andis 95% efficient. Correction 1500Watts??? Hell no. Not out of that amp. It takes what, 8 gauge power and ground?? There's a reason amps that make a real 1000-1500 cost so much more than the Stetsom. And what's the big deal with 1 Ohm?? If you can run 1 Ohm you can also run 4 Ohm which will stress the amp less as well as maintain better control over the sub. If the 4 Ohm load will get you the power you need why bother with 1 Ohm?


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## cubdenno

The thing about Stetsom is they DO actually put out the rated power into the low impedance loads. Stetsoms are getting a big following in the burp SPL contests. My buddy has one in his truck. It makes above rated power, gets hotter than the sun and given the low loads it runs with the heat produced, has the life expectancy of an annual. 

Low loads for daily driving will kill the amp because there is just not enough heat sink to deal with the heat. And I am not putting them down. it does its job and puts out a crap ton of power.

As for efficiency, the best we could get was a real world (measured by us)87%. Not bad but not 95%


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## quality_sound

I wanna see those tests results because I'll tell you flat out, I don't believe it. 

Also, a great deal of amps will make more than rated power for a couple of seconds during a burst. That doesn't make them worth buying.


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## snaimpally

Based on their website, they seem to be very successful in the SPL market. I wonder what the SQ of their amps is like. It would be interesting to have someone knowledgeable analyze their amplifier circuitry to see why they seem to getting such good power output. Amplifier design is about compromise - heat, efficiency, cost, power output, S/N, frequency response, distortion are all being balanced and, based on the design goals, some factors will suffer as a result of maximizing the others.

That said, Arc Audio has their mini series, which does pretty amazing power in a very small footprint and I've seen pics of their next gen amps that will be even smaller so it is possible ... I'd still like to see a review though ...

Also, I notice the OP happens to be a Stetsom dealer. Nothing like stirring up some controversy to get a product line that is relatively new to the USA noticed.  Excellent strategy!

FWI, their "radiation" logo looks very similar to that of Fusion (from Australia). They might have some trademark issues if Fusion has registered that trademark.


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## benny

Stetsom (or is it SOundDigital?) claims a 20-8kHz bandwidth as "fullrange", so we can guess what the SQ is like.


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## cubdenno

benny said:


> Stetsom (or is it SOundDigital?) claims a 20-8kHz bandwidth as "fullrange", so we can guess what the SQ is like.


Thats not upsetting though. How long has it been since full range class D amps have truly been available? And only recently in the last couple of years has it been done with any success by a couple of companies.

It IS a burp amp. iirc, the set up is similar to kickers Warhorse in concept. Orangelss explained it to me. i told my buddy and he bought one for his truck. Produces bass just fine. I wouldn't put it on my mids and highs though.


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## thehatedguy

Believe the Stetsom and Soundigital power...both are extremely popular amps in the SPL world and do the power they are rated for.

You are in the SPL section talking about the SQ of an amp? WTF cares?


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## BassAddictJ

benny said:


> Stetsom (or is it SOundDigital?) claims a 20-8kHz bandwidth as "fullrange", so we can guess what the SQ is like.


fail.

most people cant hear the difference between 2% and 10% distortion at 1kw or more and most amps will put out relatively low distortion if they're not being clipped. super low distortion amps really only shine with similar quality equipment in well done installs.


personally, id do the stetsom. they're proven to be reliable, and unless you're getting that jl used for 200 or less i wouldn't bother. yes jl amps are nice but you're also paying for the name. there are plenty of brands out there with matching build quality that are cheaper. do the research. jl has the convenience factor for noobs who cant match up ohm loads and a few relatively unnecessary features...


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## C3 Customs

Very Interesting points, thank you all for your insights. If you have an opinion, I welcome it.


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## Lanson

BassAddictJ said:


> fail.
> 
> most people cant hear the difference between 2% and 10% distortion at 1kw or more and most amps will put out relatively low distortion if they're not being clipped. super low distortion amps really only shine with similar quality equipment in well done installs.
> 
> 
> personally, id do the stetsom. they're proven to be reliable, and unless you're getting that jl used for 200 or less i wouldn't bother. yes jl amps are nice but you're also paying for the name. there are plenty of brands out there with matching build quality that are cheaper. do the research. jl has the convenience factor for noobs who cant match up ohm loads and a few relatively unnecessary features...



Like full active crossovers?


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## C3 Customs

Does anyone know the efficiency of the JL Audio Amp?


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## ChrisB

benny said:


> I have a hard time believing that tiny Stetsom can make 1kW as effortlessly or as reliably as the JL.


Do you think that this tiny amplifier can produce a tad bit more than 500 watts RMS:










It is Class AB to boot!


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## ChrisB

C3 Customs said:


> Does anyone know the efficiency of the JL Audio Amp?


It is pretty bad. Unfortunately the JL Audio amplifier was NOT designed to be highly efficient. And when I say bad, I am talking about 55% efficient!


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## ashlar

C3 Customs said:


> Does anyone know the efficiency of the JL Audio Amp?


"The only performance shortcoming appears to be efficiency. At 1/3 of its maximum output, the 500/1 measured 57 percent efficient, which is somewhat lower than the rest of the class D units that we’ve seen to date. In addition, the efficiency remains in the mid 50’s all the way to full output rather than increasing to the 80-percent-plus that we’ve seen in other units. The result is an amp with efficiency that’s about 30 percent better than a class A/B unit at 1/3 output and roughly equal at full output. Efficiency is the main advantage to class D amplification, but this amp is likely small enough to get away with compromising a bit." Autosound2000 Labs


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## C3 Customs

Class D efficiencies: 
85-95% vs 50-57% interesting


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## ChrisB

Oddly, JL Audio designed their monoblocks to be flexible and versatile in lieu of being highly efficient. IMHO, 500, 750, or 1000 watts RMS from 1.5 to 4 ohms is a pretty amazing feat for ANY amplifier. The trade-off is current draw.


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## ashlar

C3 Customs said:


> Class D efficiencies:
> 85-95% vs 50-57% interesting


Their amplifiers could have achieved a higher efficiency rating like everyone else, but it was what they were NOT willing to comprise to acheive that higher rating. A tradeoff between efficiency and what they considered was more important to them had to be made at the design stage. If the design goal was all out efficiency, then I am sure things would have been different. In physics, we don't get something for nothing. I wish things were different.


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## Lanson

The HD models are the efficient ones and are a better comparison here


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## C3 Customs

fourthmeal said:


> The HD models are the efficient ones and are a better comparison here


Which model would you suggest the _HD750/1_ instead.


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## Oliver

> JL Audio A -Series Amplifiers
> Posted December 13 2006 02:05 PM by oduong
> Filed under: Featured Car Audio Products
> 
> 
> 
> The value-packed A-Series amplifiers feature the* same patented Class D* and Class A/B output technologies as the flagship "Slash" amplifiers. The primary difference is that "A-Series" amplifiers employ a more conventional *unregulated PWM switching power supply *instead of the R.I.P.S. design used in the Slash models.
> 
> 
> All A-Series models are realistically rated at 12.5 volts DC supply and include flexible signal processing sections, differential-balanced inputs and solid, aluminum/steel chassis construction.
> 
> JL Audio amplifiers solve the entire issue once and for all with a revolutionary Class A/B circuit that employs identical N-Channel MOSFET transistors for push and pull with true buffering from the load impedance. This is accomplished via a patented circuit that reverses the operation of one of the transistors in each pair to achieve absolute power symmetry and extremely low distortion over a wide range of load impedances.


This is all I could find.


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## C3 Customs

nice read


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## Hispls

I'd highly doubt reall world 95% efficiency....then again, people in DB Drag seem to use a lot of Stetsom products so they must work well for that application as there are many many multi killowat amps to pick from and the people winning big events probably aren't really limited by amplifier budget.

IMO I wouldn't pay even half retail for ANY JL product.....not that they're bad, but there's dozens of better options for less money for almost any application.


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## GSlider

Stetsom and JL both make great amps. But, when it comes down to it, Ive never heard a single complaint about the Stetsom amps. JL seems abit over priced for what they are IMO. .02


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## C3 Customs

fourthmeal said:


> The HD models are the efficient ones and are a better comparison here


How efficient are those amplifiers?


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## ashlar

C3 Customs said:


> How efficient are those amplifiers?


"JL Audio claims 80% efficiency at 1/2 power." PAS Mag


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## C3 Customs

ashlar said:


> "JL Audio claims 80% efficiency at 1/2 power." PAS Mag


When exactly do you get 1/2 power if the amp does the following?

Rated Power: 750 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V)


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## ashlar

C3 Customs said:


> When exactly do you get 1/2 power if the amp does the following?
> 
> Rated Power: 750 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V)


Why test amplifiers at 1/3 power? Because that takes the duty cycle of music into account and assumes that a user is running his amp well into clipping playing bass music.


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## ashlar

C3 Customs said:


> Class D efficiencies:
> 85-95% vs 50-57% interesting



'"With the slash monoblocks we didn't set out to build the most efficient amps in the world, the goal was to create really good sounding, clean and dynamically stable subwoofer amplifiers that could drive a wide range of loads equally well." JL Audio rep


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## Hispls

I suspect if you read the fine print no amp will real-world run at 90+% efficiency... That sort of spec is typically at 1 frequency and 1 output power. I've seen some sub amps that have efficiency ratings at 100hz.


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## quality_sound

C3 Customs said:


> When exactly do you get 1/2 power if the amp does the following?
> 
> Rated Power: 750 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V)



What makes you think an amp rated at 750 Watts makes that much power all the time?


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## C3 Customs

quality_sound said:


> What makes you think an amp rated at 750 Watts makes that much power all the time?


I am not assuming that it does full power all the time, I am just trying to understand when you will get half power out of the amplifier, if the amplifier produces the 750wrms at (11V-14.5V) 

-Does that mean if the voltage goes outside of this range that you do not get the 750wrms? 
I am trying to understand the output of the amplifier, very unclear.


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## ashlar

^1/3 power. This represents the power used by a system that is being driven very hard (with severe clipping). It would already sound poor at this stage, and any further increase in level would make it worse.

1/8 power (sometimes 1/6 power is given instead). The current consumed under "normal" operating conditions. 1/8 power represents the average power of a musical signal driven to occasional clipping.

Full power. This is what would be required to drive a continuous sine wave at maximum level. Thermal or over-current protection - otherwise failure - would happen fairly quickly if you tried this, but why would you?

So you see at 1/2 power, from your point of view, we are not talking about the same thing.


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## C3 Customs

So only a high efficiency of 80% for the amp would be seen when the amp is experiencing severe clipping. Thank you for the insight. 



ashlar said:


> ^1/3 power. This represents the power used by a system that is being driven very hard (with severe clipping). It would already sound poor at this stage, and any further increase in level would make it worse.
> 
> 1/8 power (sometimes 1/6 power is given instead). The current consumed under "normal" operating conditions. 1/8 power represents the average power of a musical signal driven to occasional clipping.
> 
> Full power. This is what would be required to drive a continuous sine wave at maximum level. Thermal or over-current protection - otherwise failure - would happen fairly quickly if you tried this, but why would you?
> 
> So you see at 1/2 power, from your point of view, we are not talking about the same thing.


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## quality_sound

C3 Customs said:


> I am not assuming that it does full power all the time, I am just trying to understand when you will get half power out of the amplifier, if the amplifier produces the 750wrms at (11V-14.5V)
> 
> -Does that mean if the voltage goes outside of this range that you do not get the 750wrms?
> I am trying to understand the output of the amplifier, very unclear.


I'm saying the volume ang gain settings control output. If you turn the volume to say 15 (arbitrary number) and the HU is outputting 2V (again, arbitrary) and the gain is set to make fullpower with 2v of input it'll make full power. With the same volume setting and the gain set to make full power with 4V then the amp will ouput 375 Watts. 

Make sense.


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## Ianaconi

I guess Stetsom has a good popularity in the US.

They are a Brazilian brand, like Soundigital.

I am from Brazil and here the two brands above are basically just used for SPL.

In the SQ world they aren't popular at all here.


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## ChrisB

I've always wondered how they sounded for actual musical reproduction versus the raw power the Brazilian amplifiers produce on test tones. Do they sound musical or can the power supply switching be heard?


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## C3 Customs

Ianaconi said:


> I guess Stetsom has a good popularity in the US.
> 
> They are a Brazilian brand, like Soundigital.
> 
> I am from Brazil and here the two brands above are basically just used for SPL.
> 
> In the SQ world they aren't popular at all here.


So of the two options which would you choose?


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## PGT FTW

what's the point of this thread (beyond the OP getting press for something he/she sells)?


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## benny

Bingo.


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## Lanson

Time to nut-up or shut-up on the auth. vendor thing.


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## C3 Customs

The point of the thread is/was to see how others viewed the 2 amplifiers. I have an opinion that could be considered biased, that is why I asked for others. I have decided to get the 1k5H, I will post a review after I have had some time to play with it.


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## PGT FTW

C3 Customs said:


> The point of the thread is/was to see how others viewed the 2 amplifiers. I have an opinion that could be considered biased, that is why I asked for others. I have decided to get the 1k5H, I will post a review after I have had some time to play with it.


are you a JL Audio dealer as well?


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## C3 Customs

PGT FTW said:


> are you a JL Audio dealer as well?


ironically jl audio can be found at our local flea market  so easy to get a hold of at affordable prices


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## Ianaconi

Definately JL Audio. No comparison with Stetsom.


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## quality_sound

I really hope he's NOT a dealer. Some of the questions were beyond basic and the kinds of things I'd expect a dealer to know.


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## benny

C3 Customs - (832)-892-8077 | MySpace

looks like...


It gets better: http://www.c3-customs.com/aoptimize.html

$4000 for a 3 month long tuning session?!? Are you ****ting me? I think we should all know how seriously to take the OP now.


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## Lanson

wow.

<there was a bunch of stuff after "wow" but in the name of not being a **** starter I'll just leave this blank.>


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## C3 Customs

benny said:


> C3 Customs - (832)-892-8077 | MySpace
> 
> looks like...
> 
> 
> It gets better: Professional Custom Car Audio Services by C3 Customs
> 
> $4000 for a 3 month long tuning session?!? Are you ****ting me? *I think we should all know how seriously to take the OP now.*


Unclear what the bold statement is meant to entail, but I want to thank you for your quick advertisement posting. If you would like to discuss the services that I offer I would be glad to discuss them via, e-mail or over the phone. This forum/thread is not the place. 

Now back to the matter at hand:



C3 Customs said:


> Which class D amplifier performs better?
> 
> JL Audio's Slash 1000/1v2
> JL Audio 1000/1v2 Amplifiers - Car Audio Amps & Amplifiers
> 
> or
> 
> Stetsom's 1k5h 1ohm version
> Stetsom - Amplifiers
> 
> What are your thoughts, I want to know what you think.
> 
> Why/How did you make your choice?


I have decided to get the 1k5H after careful consideration, I will post a review after I have had some time to play with it.


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## Arthurk

C3 Customs said:


> That is like 4 times the power lol and probably 5 times the price for the stetsom.


And for good reason! Arc kills Stetsom in every way, especially sound quality and control of subs! Kids wanting tons of power but not willing to pay for quality go with brands like Stetsom or Sundown, IMO.


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## C3 Customs

Arthurk said:


> And for good reason! Arc kills Stetsom in every way, especially sound quality and control of subs! Kids wanting tons of power but not willing to pay for quality go with brands like Stetsom or Sundown, IMO.


My originally quote was comparing the 1k5h to the 4000SE and it should read *"That is like 4 times the power lol and probably 7 times the price for the stetsom 1k5h*"(just got a price quote on the 4000SE), but I guess if you want to get an amp that does similar power then you would have to compare stetsoms' 4k2D to the 4000SE. 
But when you are looking to power ie.. _spl competitions_, you are looking for the best bang for your buck. Sorry to say that at a price of *3k* many competitors would pass on 4000Wrms when you can easy get 10k+wrms for that price. just my $.02. 

Now for your everyday person who has a 4k+ substage then an amp of this caliber may be a better suggestion.
​But I think that discussion can go on and on.


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## PGT FTW

C3 Customs said:


> ironically jl audio can be found at our local flea market  so easy to get a hold of at affordable prices


a) you didn't answer the question
b) anybody who buys JL Audio at a flea market deserves what they get


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## C3 Customs

No,I am not a dealer for JL Audio. Almost anything electronic that is produced in Asia can be found in the Houston Flea Market. So I guess you are right about you deserve what you get.


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## XllentAudio

So your judging these amps and trying to choose one based on the specs alone? Have you heard either JL or Stetsom installed in a vehicle? I don't even think these two amps should be compared. You should be comparing the JL 1000 to maybe like a SD 1000 or 1500. Ummm LOL I can't believe these two amps are being compared. Just get a JL and call it the day. You'll be happy with the output.


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## Oliver

Evar thang is bigger in TEXAS - Pear Cable Audio Cables 

Don't buy imprint iffn U lives in texas -* $4000 for a 3 month long tuning session?!?* This here boy'll set U up !


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## cubdenno

Arthurk said:


> And for good reason! Arc kills Stetsom in every way, especially sound quality and control of subs! Kids wanting tons of power but not willing to pay for quality go with brands like Stetsom or Sundown, IMO.


Whoa whoa whoa... Easy on Sundown. Will gladly let you swap my amp and compare vs a Arc. Or my Son's or brother's.

We can do a blind test and you can tell me which one sounds better driving and at a stop. I have done this against a tru billet 2200 on a 4 ohm load among other amps. on several different subs.

I will pick Sundown anytime. Price and performance very hard to beat.


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## C3 Customs

XllentAudio said:


> So your judging these amps and trying to choose one based on the specs alone? Have you heard either JL or Stetsom installed in a vehicle? I don't even think these two amps should be compared. You should be comparing the JL 1000 to maybe like a SD 1000 or 1500. Ummm LOL I can't believe these two amps are being compared. Just get a JL and call it the day. You'll be happy with the output.


Judging on specs correct, as I have heard various amps from both companies installed in numerous vehicles. Have you heard any Stetsom amp installed in any vehicle?


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## Ianaconi

I have heard many Stetsom here in Brazil, and compare to ARC, AUDISON, BRAX or any other top brand is just not apropriate in any way.


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## C3 Customs

Ianaconi said:


> I have heard many Stetsom here in Brazil, and compare to ARC, AUDISON, BRAX or any other top brand is just not apropriate in any way.


I can understand that if I were comparing multi-channel amps, but I think that you should be able to compare class D amps head to head.


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## WRX/Z28

C3 Customs said:


> Unclear what the bold statement is meant to entail, but I want to thank you for your quick advertisement posting. If you would like to discuss the services that I offer I would be glad to discuss them via, e-mail or over the phone. This forum/thread is not the place.
> 
> Now back to the matter at hand:
> 
> 
> 
> I have decided to get the 1k5H after careful consideration, I will post a review after I have had some time to play with it.


Amazing! After careful consideration you chose to purchase the amp from the line you carry? 

If you were serious with some of your questions about when an amp makes 1/2 power, I would not want you tuning my car ever. 


At the end of the day, I'd choose the JL amp. The main reasons for my choice? The plethora of 8+ year old / series JL amps floating around working flawlessly. The tuning capabilitys and input capabilitys of the amp. The tightly regulated power supply and capability to make the same power into a wide range of loads (most of us DIYMA guys switch subs like we change our underwear). Combine this with a smalish footprint, solid build quality (great power connections, rca terminals that are supported by the amps case, not just the circuit board), preamp outputs for feeding other amps, signal sensing turn on capability w/ remote turn on OUTPUT capability, selectable crossover slopes, and you have a winner. 

The track record of the amp's designers doesn't hurt either (Jeff Scoon, Bruce Macmillan and co.). These were the guys who built PPI's ART series. Arguably the most reliable, and longest lasting mass produced car amp ever made. 


None of this is to say that Stetsom doesn't make a good amp. I'm simply stating that JL has the track record. 

Those that hate on JL, but love PPI Art series boggle my mind.  Those that hate on a product based on it's pricing also boggle my mind. It's like people have an agenda to prove that anyone that buys a product that is more expensive than their own is automatically overpaying. Bizare. 

Car audio guys here seem to be the only one that does this to this degree.


EDIT**** I also find it hillarious that JL is the product that everyone compares themselves against, and establishes as the benchmark. Yet in the next breath, they are badmouthing the same benchmark. lol


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## C3 Customs

The comparison was done between JL Audio and Stetsom because both amplifiers have the same topology (half-bridge) but that is where the similarities end as we have seen through out this discussion. Additionally, since both amps can do rated power @ 12.6V and are class D, I thought it would be an equitable comparison spec to spec as many people are familiar with both brands and have opinions one way or the other.*Quick Question: Has JL Audio held any SPL world records??, Has Stetsom held any SQ world titles??* Both companies produce great products designed to move speaker/sub woofers, and in my humble opinion every application is different. For my particular application, I have the electrical in place to handle the voltage draw necessary to run the JL Audio amp 63.2 Vac(~45 Vdc) in place and the amperage draw from the Stetsom amplifier 72 amps. I just wanted to know which amplifier the general public would choose and why, before I made my decision.​


WRX/Z28 said:


> Amazing! After careful consideration you chose to purchase the amp from the line you carry?
> 
> Amplifier efficiency wins out in this case. I have not been convinced that the JL amp is a better use of resources.
> 
> If you were serious with some of your questions about when an amp makes 1/2 power, I would not want you tuning my car ever.
> 
> 
> At the end of the day, I'd choose the JL amp. The main reasons for my choice? The plethora of 8+ year old / series JL amps floating around working flawlessly. The tuning capabilities and input capabilities of the amp. The tightly regulated power supply and capability to make the same power into a wide range of loads (most of us DIYMA guys switch subs like we change our underwear). Combine this with a smallish footprint, solid build quality (great power connections, rca terminals that are supported by the amps case, not just the circuit board), preamp outputs for feeding other amps, signal sensing turn on capability w/ remote turn on OUTPUT capability, selectable crossover slopes, and you have a winner.  All great features, but not worth trading efficiency for; (50-57% vs 85-95%). _Now if the JL amp was 85% efficient with the same features we would be having a very different discussion. _
> 
> The track record of the amp's designers doesn't hurt either (Jeff Scoon, Bruce Macmillan and co.). These were the guys who built PPI's ART series. Arguably the most reliable, and longest lasting mass produced car amp ever made.
> 
> 
> None of this is to say that Stetsom doesn't make a good amp. I'm simply stating that JL has the track record.
> 
> Those that hate on JL, but love PPI Art series boggle my mind.  Those that hate on a product based on it's pricing also boggle my mind. It's like people have an agenda to prove that anyone that buys a product that is more expensive than their own is automatically overpaying. Bizarre.
> 
> Car audio guys here seem to be the only one that does this to this degree.
> 
> 
> EDIT**** I also find it hilarious that JL is the product that everyone compares themselves against, and establishes as the benchmark. Yet in the next breath, they are badmouthing the same benchmark. lol


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## Hispls

Most amps I've seen that advertize 85% efficiency are at 4 ohms and 100hz or somesuch unrealistic point.

Until you read the fine print or see a third party evaluation I wouldn't bet on published efficiency specs. These things ARE limited by the laws of physics and often if things seem too good to be true they probalby are.... I would NOT expect real-world 85% efficiency out of any amplifier.


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## dougc

I have the JL 1000.1 and never heard of the other one even with much recent research in 1k amps. I chose it mainly based on reputation of the company, reputation of it having near rated power, detailed subwoofer tuning features, and the fact that it is built like a brick ****house and that I could use it as an anchor should it ever blow. A good owner reference is better mfg stats any day.


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## WRX/Z28

C3 Customs said:


> The comparison was done between JL Audio and Stetsom because both amplifiers have the same topology (half-bridge) but that is where the similarities end as we have seen through out this discussion. Additionally, since both amps can do rated power @ 12.6V and are class D, I thought it would be an equitable comparison spec to spec as many people are familiar with both brands and have opinions one way or the other.*Quick Question: Has JL Audio held any SPL world records??, Has Stetsom held any SQ world titles??* Both companies produce great products designed to move speaker/sub woofers, and in my humble opinion every application is different. For my particular application, I have the electrical in place to handle the voltage draw necessary to run the JL Audio amp 63.2 Vac(~45 Vdc) in place and the amperage draw from the Stetsom amplifier 72 amps. I just wanted to know which amplifier the general public would choose and why, before I made my decision.​



What does this have to do with "What amplifier is your choice?" 

Are you building an SPL vehicle? 

Going gaga over amp efficiency is pretty pointless. If you want efficiency, run lower power through more woofers. There's your efficiency...



Hispls said:


> Most amps I've seen that advertize 85% efficiency are at 4 ohms and 100hz or somesuch unrealistic point.
> 
> Until you read the fine print or see a third party evaluation I wouldn't bet on published efficiency specs. These things ARE limited by the laws of physics and often if things seem too good to be true they probalby are.... I would NOT expect real-world 85% efficiency out of any amplifier.


Exactly. Amps become more efficient when driving higher loads due to lower power output. The JL does not have the ability to show these false specs since it makes the same output regardless of impedence.


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## Operator

dougc said:


> I have the JL 1000.1 and never heard of the other one even with much recent research in 1k amps. I chose it mainly based on reputation of the company, reputation of it having near rated power, detailed subwoofer tuning features, and the fact that it is built like a brick ****house and that I could use it as an anchor should it ever blow. A good owner reference is better mfg stats any day.


And it's reputation is well earned!! JL Audio: Facility Tour Pictures [audiojunkies]


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## WRX/Z28

> C3 Customs - (832)-892-8077 Calling out all JL Audio & Alpine Amp owners, try real power get A Stetsom Amp.
> Mood: animated


 From myspace 10-16-09


 :laugh:


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## Operator

WRX/Z28 said:


> From myspace 10-16-09
> 
> 
> :laugh:


Running a negative ad campaign uh...... That's what the people trying to gain a piece of the pie do. See: Apple to PC's, the Droid to the Iphone, Pepsi to Coke, Burger King to Mc Donalds. If your product is as good as you claim, let it do the talking and don't try to bring down other brands...... 

Nice find WRX.


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## C3 Customs

WRX/Z28 said:


> From myspace 10-16-09 _(almost a month before the OP )_
> 
> C3 Customs - (832)-892-8077 Calling out all JL Audio & Alpine Amp owners, try real power get A Stetsom Amp.
> Mood: animated
> 
> :laugh:



 Where is the negative ad campaign, the Truth is: " You can buy more class D power for the same price with Stetsom then you can with a top of the class D from Alpine or JL Audio. Or you can buy equivalent reliable power for less. " _:idea3:_


*Alpine Audio MRP-M2000 ($750):deal2:*
1500 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms
2000 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms

*Stetsom 2k5D (2 ohm version) ($600)*
2200 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms
3300 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms

-------------------------------------------

*JL Audio 1000/1v2 ($1100):deal2:*
1000 Watts RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm

*Stetsom 1k6D (1 ohm version) ($500)*
600 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms
1000 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms
1750 Watts RMS @ 1 ohms


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## C3 Customs

The 1k5h has just come out very recently, no surprise you have not heard of it. Stetsom has been building quality amplifiers for 20 years, just a relatively new name in the US. The amps have been proved in the competition lanes and are known for doing rated power and more, if you have the electrical system in place.



dougc said:


> I have the JL 1000.1 and never heard of the other one even with much recent research in 1k amps. I chose it mainly based on reputation of the company, reputation of it having near rated power, detailed subwoofer tuning features, and the fact that it is built like a brick ****house and that I could use it as an anchor should it ever blow. A good owner reference is better mfg stats any day.


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## Ianaconi

The difference is JL and Alpine have much more quality than the Stetsom.


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## C3 Customs

Ianaconi said:


> The difference is JL and Alpine have much more quality than the Stetsom.


I have to disagree with your statement as all 3 brands use high quality parts, with jl audio and alpine using build-house type architecture basically the same layout as you find in one of the general amp build-houses.

"Stetsom has a very unique build style which is why they are able to produce amps that can do outrageous numbers" -Mak3shiftAudio


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## Operator

Operator said:


> And it's reputation is well earned!! JL Audio: Facility Tour Pictures [audiojunkies]


Show us a tour of your facility, how bout some info on your R&D department. You pay for a good product..... See BMW, Audi, Lexus. Can you buy a Ford, or Chevorlet or Hyundai that has similar features as the beforeand mentioned?!? Yes. But they still aren't seen as the standard. You're brand is just another option, if someone doesn't have the funds, then your product may be the way to go. But me personally, I'd get a used JL amp before I got a Stetsom.


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## sundownz

Arthurk said:


> And for good reason! Arc kills Stetsom in every way, especially sound quality and control of subs! Kids wanting tons of power but not willing to pay for quality go with brands like Stetsom or Sundown, IMO.


Whoa there... back up a second... what is this about my products not being quality ?


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## Operator

JL Audio :: Brands :: Home

Once again JL has earned it's reputation. If your product is as good as you say, let it sell itself, and don't worry about your competitors. I don't see JL or Alpine reps on here trying to claim they have a better product.


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## WRX/Z28

C3 Customs said:


> Where is the negative ad campaign, the Truth is: " You can buy more class D power for the same price with Stetsom then you can with a top of the class D from Alpine or JL Audio. Or you can buy equivalent reliable power for less. " _:idea3:_
> 
> 
> *Alpine Audio MRP-M2000 ($750):deal2:*
> 1500 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms
> 2000 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms
> 
> *Stetsom 2k5D (2 ohm version) ($600)*
> 2200 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms
> 3300 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> *JL Audio 1000/1v2 ($1100):deal2:*
> 1000 Watts RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm
> 
> *Stetsom 1k6D (1 ohm version) ($500)*
> 600 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms
> 1000 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms
> 1750 Watts RMS @ 1 ohms


[C] JL Audio G-Max ($649.99) 
600 W RMS x 1 @ 4 ohm 
1200 W RMS x 1 @ 2 ohm 

I'll take the balanced inputs, selectable crossover slope, and JL build quality for $150 over the relative unknown. 

Heck, i'd take JL's J2 amp instead too. 

JL Audio J2 1000.1 ($399.99)
400W x 1 @ 4 ohm
700W x 1 @ 2 ohm
1000W x 1 @ 1 ohm



Price is not everything. If you want to compete with JL or Alpine, how about telling us what makes your amplifiers better, instead of preaching how they're the same  for cheaper?

If Price was all that mattered, why not ditch your Stetsom's in favor of a Powerbass ASA1500.1DX ($399.99)
RMS Power (4 ohms) 325 watts x 1 channel
RMS Power (2 ohms) 750 watts x 1 channel
RMS Power (1 ohm) 1500 watts x 1 channel

Or heck, why not a Kole amplifier (boat anchor)?

I'll let you search that one out on your own...


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## Operator

Wonder how many other places he's posted this question: Stetsom vs. JL Audio - Car Audio Forum - CarAudio.com


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## Miguel mac

the jl audio 1000/1 nice!!


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## Arthurk

sundownz said:


> Whoa there... back up a second... what is this about my products not being quality ?


Quality as far as tons of cheap power, sure, but comparing sonic subtleties and SQ sound quality of your amps to an SE4000 is just not even in the same ballpark. Look at how they are built, WHERE they are built, and the age group of the purchasers will also speak volumes. If you want your car to burp, which should be for beer, then your amps are fine. If you want an IASCA quality car with awesome staging and total control over a speaker, not so much. I've had a 3000, and a 3500 so I am not just talking blind here. Kids just want volume! There is a reason Arc SE amps cost so much!!!


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## Oliver

I run an SAZ-1500D on a dvc 1 Ohm Digital Designs Sub [9512G],* it bumps *

wired it in series for a 2 ohm final load, I graduated from HS . . . in 1976 

*Jacobs amps are fine for music listening *

*I'd bet from 80Hz and down there are not many who can tell you which amp , or which sub is playing if the field is level to begin with.*


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## sundownz

Arthurk said:


> Quality as far as tons of cheap power, sure, but comparing sonic subtleties and SQ sound quality of your amps to an SE4000 is just not even in the same ballpark. Look at how they are built, WHERE they are built, and the age group of the purchasers will also speak volumes. If you want your car to burp, which should be for beer, then your amps are fine. If you want an IASCA quality car with awesome staging and total control over a speaker, not so much. I've had a 3000, and a 3500 so I am not just talking blind here. Kids just want volume! There is a reason Arc SE amps cost so much!!!


Regarding my demographic -- I have ALOT of customers over 30-35 years of age. One of my online dealers sells almost exclusively to "older" customers (he sells packages to fit into certain model trucks). They certainly are not going around burping their vehicles. One customer in this group in particular routinely installs $100k+ home audio systems and doesn't have ANY complaints about the sound of his amps.

I have quite a few customers that are big-time into SQ... Nick the owner of Stereo Integrity comes to mind. Also, almost 100% of my customers in Israel as a great deal of them are running Morel or similar high end speakers and woofers with my amps for SQ purposes. Big power and burping is not a big thing there according to my distributor (I ship mainly four and two channel amps to Israel, some 1000Ds and 1500Ds as well). Many of these customers changed over from various other high end brand names and are QUITE satisfied.

Arc makes a fine amp... I can agree with that no question -- that does not change the fact that my products are also high quality.

If you are speaking about SQ so in depth why is that that the smallest amp you give as an example is a 3000-watt Class-D ? Sure, SPL is a very big market for Sundown -- but I do not come from an SPL background... I only started in SPL when I found such a large demand for my Class-D amps there due to the high power they produce and their reliability / efficiency.

*PS:* I am well aware of what it costs to make the SE4000 as I have discussed it with Robert Zeff... I think you are misleading yourself on how much it costs to build. It is a fantastic amplifier, though, incredible design by Mr. Zeff as usual.


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## cubdenno

Meh, some people get an extra couple inches of **** if they use certain high dollar brands. Even without any other reason than "this amp costs X number of dollars more than your amp, so it is obviously better." Same goes with speakers processors, car manufacturers etc. I try to look at total cost of ownership. If there is some audible reason to buy a high dollar amp over another fine. But most of these accusations are just based on purchase price (that which is high) and personal preference of what brand is perceived as cool or essque.

As stated before, My friends Stetsom 2K SOMETHIN SOMETHIN, puts out a ton of power for the size. My concern with it is heat. There is just not enough heatsink area to dissipate the heat running at the loads he runs daily in my opinion based on understanding heatsinks. the amp hasn't died. But my concern is lifespan. And it plays his music fine. He listens to predominantly rap. So lots o tones


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## Hispls

>35 here. I'm OK with my Sundown amps. Really ANY amp will sound kind of like ass at 1 ohm anyway. For the money of a JL, buy a refurb SAZ3Kd and run it at 4 ohms. Plenty of power, very efficient, and good SQ.

OR if you really want to pay 400$ for 1KW just pick up the new Zed Kronos...at least you'll have the flexibility to use it full range and you can brag about your burr brown op-amps making more Sq on your subs. For ****'s sake... the marketing hype you people throw money at.


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## sundownz

cubdenno said:


> As stated before, My friends Stetsom 2K SOMETHIN SOMETHIN, puts out a ton of power for the size. My concern with it is heat. There is just not enough heatsink area to dissipate the heat running at the loads he runs daily in my opinion based on understanding heatsinks. the amp hasn't died. But my concern is lifespan. And it plays music fine. He listens to predominantly rap. So lots o tones


If it's a 2K5D -- that is the best Stetsom amp I've played around with. It didn't give me any problems in testing at all... could just use larger power terminals.

I got similar power to the SAZ-2000D from it (of course the Stetsom was wired at it's 2 ohm rating and the 2000 at it's 1 ohm rating).


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## Lanson

I don't think its the issue of the amp, it is the issue of using this forum as grounds to promote a product or company. 

Your abusing your privilege to be a DIYMA member, I feel. And your website is re-freaking-diculous.


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## cubdenno

I called him. He has the 2k5D 1 ohmer. it is a tad over 1 foot long. like 13 inches or so. Rated at 3000 watts at 13.8v or something silly. he has it wired to a .5dcr load and the things little fan blows out air hot enough to pop popcorn after a listening session.

Just for the record, He had talked to whomever he bought it from regarding the wiring load. i understand wiring below rated loads will increase the heat.

I was shocked at the size. I was comparing it to my 1500D and my sons SAE 1000D . It was a tiny bit bigger than the 1000 but a couple of inches smaller than my 1500 iirc.


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## sundownz

IMHO... the Brazillian amps should be used at rated impedance and no lower. They are very high voltage designs and don't need to be or like to be wired down really low.


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## AndyInOC

I am in the 35 + group running all Sundown amps and sub and I am certainly not going to hang my head because I don't run amps full of the mythical SQ pixie dust, it achieved my goal for sound and I didn't buy into some ad campaign ********


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## kkreit01

fourthmeal said:


> I don't think its the issue of the amp, it is the issue of using this forum as grounds to promote a product or company.
> 
> Your abusing your privilege to be a DIYMA member, I feel. And your website is re-freaking-diculous.


I don't know....they'll add Second Skin to my _Exterior_ for a mere $1699.99. That's a penny cheaper than I can get it around here. :laugh:


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## quality_sound

C3 Customs said:


> Where is the negative ad campaign, the Truth is: " You can buy more class D power for the same price with Stetsom then you can with a top of the class D from Alpine or JL Audio. Or you can buy equivalent reliable power for less. "



Can you read? what you wrote says flat out that JL and Alpine don't make "real" power, like their specs are inflated. If that's not negative, I don't know what is.


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## quality_sound

Arthurk said:


> Quality as far as tons of cheap power, sure, but comparing sonic subtleties and SQ sound quality of your amps to an SE4000 is just not even in the same ballpark. Look at how they are built, WHERE they are built, and the age group of the purchasers will also speak volumes. If you want your car to burp, which should be for beer, then your amps are fine. If you want an IASCA quality car with awesome staging and total control over a speaker, not so much. I've had a 3000, and a 3500 so I am not just talking blind here. Kids just want volume! There is a reason Arc SE amps cost so much!!!


I think I qualify as a certified Arc nut-swinger and *I* think you're full of crap.


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## Hispls

C3 Customs said:


> "Stetsom has a very unique build style ...."































IMHO this doesn't really scream build quality, attention to detail, or anything (close up it looks pretty ugly inside) but I must say it delivers some serious power in a small package...then again, gen VII hifonics looked pretty ugly inside as well as many of the other really nice stuff I played with in the early days. On the other other hand, it's almost 2010 and I'm not sure if there's really an excuse to not have a cleaner layout.

I do not doubt the claims of these doing rated power. I have heard that the latest generation has improved a bit. I will eventually do some 4 ohm testing with this (there's no "sound quality" at 140+ db and there's not much at 1 ohm). 

Will start another thread with more details.


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## Arthurk

Hispls said:


> IMHO this doesn't really scream build quality, attention to detail, or anything (close up it looks pretty ugly inside) but I must say it delivers some serious power in a small package...then again, gen VII hifonics looked pretty ugly inside as well as many of the other really nice stuff I played with in the early days. On the other other hand, it's almost 2010 and I'm not sure if there's really an excuse to not have a cleaner layout.
> 
> I do not doubt the claims of these doing rated power. I have heard that the latest generation has improved a bit. I will eventually do some 4 ohm testing with this (there's no "sound quality" at 140+ db and there's not much at 1 ohm).
> 
> Will start another thread with more details.


I'm pretty sure those pics are from Alan Dante's amps which he modded with Kicker 1/0 on the inside. While he does hold a world spl record, I agree the insides look messy at best.


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## Hispls

Arthurk said:


> I'm pretty sure those pics are from Alan Dante's amps which he modded with Kicker 1/0 on the inside. While he does hold a world spl record, I agree the insides look messy at best.



Yep, the guy I got it from said it was one from Dante's build. Bought it off another forum this week.

This is currently MY amp.


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## ChrisB

I remember one of the comments I got in trouble for on another forum when someone posted the guts of a first generation high voltage class D amp. I think I said something to the effect of it looking like it was assembled by a retarded monkey on crack. The cardboard insulator under the transformer really took the cake.


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## joms

How does the JL HD750/1 perform against other small form factor amps? Will this amp be good enough to power a JL12w7 on a small ported enclosure to make some serious pounding bass?


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## All

C3 Customs said:


> Judging on specs correct, as I have heard various amps from both companies installed in numerous vehicles. Have you heard any Stetsom amp installed in any vehicle?











S


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## BJG

WRX/Z28 said:


> EDIT**** I also find it hillarious that JL is the product that everyone compares themselves against, and establishes as the benchmark. Yet in the next breath, they are badmouthing the same benchmark. lol



man you took the words right out of my mouth....


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