# Carputer- what all do I need?



## thehatedguy

K, been thinking about taking a plunge in the deep end of the pool for a while now and trying something new with a carputer. Basically...I want my cake and eat it too. I want a music server- don't care about video or GPS, and I want as much or more processing than what I have with the Rane RPM88 I have...plus maybe the ability to play with ambiophonics/vbap/ambiosonics if I wanted to get kinky.

Can such a system be built to do all of that without breaking the bank? I'm not sure how much processing power I would need to make all of that stuff work well...and still be able to boot fairly quickly. I see that Andy and Gary have been playing around with the Mac Minis...and those look attractive just based on shear form factor. Plus I think a good USB sound card that support ASIO would allow me to go that route if I decided down the Apple path.

Been reading as much here and on mp3car that I can.


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## felix509

Good to hear you wanna try it out, I love mine.. 

I just built a home computer, average AMD dual core processor and 2Gb ram, put in the DC power supply and it has more than enough Horsepower for processing.(even though i ended up using a DSP6, was not for lack of computing power)

SOme things to consider:

Find a motherboard with Nvidia on board video chipset. I bought one with Intel video and could never get it to do the 7" widescreen resolution, near impossible. So i bought one with NVidia onboard and it worked first try..

I have had very good luck with Xenarc displays. I did have mucho trouble with the USB controller for the touch screen. It seems it needs it's own USB device with no other devices sharing. I bought a lead to plug straight into one of the USB headers on the Motherboard and have had no troubles since. 

Get a good quality power supply, i am using OPUS solutions with 280watts i think, have had no troubles in 12 months.

Consider buying a very small (20-40GB) hard drive for the operating system and then add a larger one for just media( saw a 750GB on newegg for $100)

It seems quite a few people have had good luck with M-Audio 1010 PCI cards.


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## durwood

Prepare to be ruined forever.  
If you stick with the newer processors Pentium4/equivalent and up, you should be fine. AMD has some nice lowpwer cheap options. I have a feeling you are new to computer building though.

Mac/PC? Tough call. I'm not a MAC guy but I do know that there is a specific VBAP app only for Mac.

To do VBAP in windows, MAX/MSP is the only to do it right now, but I have not reached that point.

Other than that, the rest can be done by either PC or Mac IIRC. I only live in the PC world and I don't know anyone trying this stuff on a MAC yet.

Soundcard selection:
Forget USB unless you want multiple DACs. There is not a single USB card I have seen or found that will work properly-at least without streaming audio into it as if the PC is only acting as a processor with some other source unit. Firewire has better bandwidth and soundcards that will work with routing and processing. How many channels? Will you need to expand later? Keep in mind 8 channels on one soundcard is the highest you can go, then you need ones that can be daisy chained together.

PCI will give you more options too if you go the internal route.

Next problem if even a problem:
What VST host to go with?
To experiment in the non-commerical playback methods, there are guides written for the following plugin hosts (VST's can be used in all of them but specific features might be application specific):

1) Audiomulch
2) Plogue Bidule
3) Max/MSP

They can be adapted for other hosts such as Console, VSTHOST, but you might loose specific features unless you find your own way to do it. But that is half the fun.

I can't really recommend one over the other right now, but a few offer a trial period. I currently use Console which I purchased before I knew of the others.

Another possible problem right now, I thought Microsoft had plans to phase out XP soon (like very soon-your chances to buy XP might be time limited). IIRC, although the sound is handled differently in VISTA, ASIO might have hiccups in VISTA.


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## MarkZ

durwood said:


> Forget USB unless you want multiple DACs. There is not a single USB card I have seen or found that will work properly-at least without streaming audio into it as if the PC is only acting as a processor with some other source unit.


What about the Gigaport AG?



> Another possible problem right now, I thought Microsoft had plans to phase out XP soon (like very soon-your chances to buy XP might be time limited). IIRC, although the sound is handled differently in VISTA, ASIO might have hiccups in VISTA.


Screw XP. I use 98. Try booting faster than me.


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## thehatedguy

Thanks guys...I'm pretty excited about the whole thing. Been thinking about it for over a year now.

Durwood, how do you like Rubberfilter (I think that is the name) for XO duties? I may need to call on you once I get this thing going...I'm not the most computer savvy guy these days.

I was reading over on diyaudio about sound cards, those guys seem to like the USB cards over the PCI cards b/c they feel the USB cards have less EMI and noise pickup than the internal cards.

So far, the M Audio 1010LT is looking good. And I just read a review of a card you did on mp3car...thought it was a good card but output voltage sucked.

Question, can you get a sound card that has balanced outputs? I am using Zapco amps and going balanced into them would be nice.


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## t3sn4f2

MarkZ said:


> What about the Gigaport AG?
> 
> 
> 
> Screw XP. I use 98. *Try booting faster than me.*


Remote door unlock triggered "on" with a latching M4-ATX. PC will be up and running by the time your car turns on, unless you get in Dukes of Hazard style


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## chad

thehatedguy said:


> Question, can you get a sound card that has balanced outputs? I am using Zapco amps and going balanced into them would be nice.



Or I guess better question on my end, could one use something like a MOTU 828II? Firewire, 8 in/8 out, although the in's are pretty much worthless I guess. Balanced and sounds great.

Also We have a slew of guys here running MAX/MSP on Macs, Should I begin to buddy up more to them for questions?


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## chad

t3sn4f2 said:


> Remote door unlock triggered "on" with a latching M4-ATX. PC will be up and running by the time your car turns on, unless you get in Dukes of Hazard style


I'd kill batteries left and right with the way I keep keys in my pocket :blush:


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## t3sn4f2

chad said:


> I'd kill batteries left and right with the way I keep keys in my pocket :blush:


It can be wired to shut down if you don't turn on the ignition within that minute or so. You don't even need to wire anything to the trigger other then the PC, this way nothing is apparently on till you turn the keys and screen and amps turn on.


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## MarkZ

t3sn4f2 said:


> Remote door unlock triggered "on" with a latching M4-ATX. PC will be up and running by the time your car turns on, unless you get in Dukes of Hazard style


Heh, you win. I never thought of wiring it to the remote door unlock though, because I don't always use it.



> It can be wired to shut down if you don't turn on the ignition within that minute or so. You don't even need to wire anything to the trigger other then the PC, this way nothing is apparently on till you turn the keys and screen and amps turn on.


...and they have a voltage sensor in them as well, that shuts off the power supply after the battery voltage dips below 11v (?) for a certain amount of time.


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## amapro704

I have mine wired to the trunk pop function on my remote, you have to press it twice quick so no false startups and she's booted up by the time I crank her over


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## t3sn4f2

MarkZ said:


> Heh, you win. I never thought of wiring it to the remote door unlock though, because I don't always use it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...and they have a voltage sensor in them as well, that shuts off the power supply after the battery voltage dips below 11v (?) for a certain amount of time.


I've read that "hard off" feature is not recommended. People have had trouble where the battery gets drained of enough current to not be able to start the car but the voltage never falls to the point where the device triggers the hard off. I think the timed off would work in most cases. 

For the remote trigger you would need to make a circuit with a cap that holds enough 12v current to trigger the M4-ATX long enough for the latching circuit to initialize (think something like 5 sec is needed before it start the latched booting process). Maybe a delayed off device from PAC or somewhere could work too (hopefully it works with a quick trigger burst.)


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## amapro704

Oh and as far as audio Durwood's advice is solid if you want to do all processing on the PC. If not, then use a single USB DAC for the best quality/ high voltage outputs like this one here:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/general-hardware-discussion/121396-mp3car-authorized-group-buy-audiophile-sound-solution-hippohi-fi-bloat-dac.html


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## 60ndown

you guys kill me,

K.I.S.S. ?


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## amapro704

60, who are you talking about??


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## JoshHefnerX

If you're into big $$$ a Solid State Drive will make boot up time considerably shorter also....

Josh


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## thehatedguy

The reason I had looked at the Mac Mini is that I think I can get it in the dash and just have a slot for the disks...and the USB sound card so I could keep the sound card at the back of the car near the amps. But if the USB solutions are more hastle than it's worth, I will be looking elsewhere. That and the card npdang had with his system was a pretty good card, and it is still up for sale.


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## Ge0

durwood said:


> How many channels? Will you need to expand later? Keep in mind 8 channels on one soundcard is the highest you can go, then you need ones that can be daisy chained together.


Huh, what ya talking about wood? I purchased a firewire sound card that offers 10 in and 10 out. Its big brother gives 24 in and 24 out. I know of others that are similar in higher than 8 channel counts...

Ge0


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## durwood

MarkZ said:


> What about the Gigaport AG?


Doesn't have ESI's directwire feature 



thehatedguy said:


> Durwood, how do you like Rubberfilter (I think that is the name) for XO duties? I may need to call on you once I get this thing going...I'm not the most computer savvy guy these days.


I've been using allocator but my card doesn;t have a high enough latency to get rid of a slight resource problem when using the phase correction part, but I think Rubber filter is fine and am switching to it. 64bit precision IIRC, and should be a simple analog filter modeled digitally. It's not linear phase, but should be no different than what everyone currently uses in their DSP. The cost is free so that's hard to beat.



> I was reading over on diyaudio about sound cards, those guys seem to like the USB cards over the PCI cards b/c they feel the USB cards have less EMI and noise pickup than the internal cards.
> 
> So far, the M Audio 1010LT is looking good. And I just read a review of a card you did on mp3car...thought it was a good card but output voltage sucked.
> 
> Question, can you get a sound card that has balanced outputs? I am using Zapco amps and going balanced into them would be nice.


Pro cards offer balanced outputs. >$400-500+. USB is bandwidth hog, that is why you see more firewire cards for PRO use. What USB cards are they using specifically?



chad said:


> Or I guess better question on my end, could one use something like a MOTU 828II? Firewire, 8 in/8 out, although the in's are pretty much worthless I guess. Balanced and sounds great.


If it has routing abilities it should work great. Ultralite looked like a contender, but I don't know if it you can route.



> Also We have a slew of guys here running MAX/MSP on Macs, Should I begin to buddy up more to them for questions?


Maybe, I wouldn't know what to ask. I'm not sure what it looks like. Unless ask them if they have used any of the ambi/vbap packages/stuff. Not sure if it's VST based or it uses some other standard.


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## chad

durwood said:


> If it has routing abilities it should work great. Ultralite looked like a contender, but I don't know if it you can route.
> 
> 
> .


Routing galore They use the I and the O of an 828II with Max-MSP for altering acoustic sounds in a 7.1 environment... daily.


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## MarkZ

durwood said:


> Doesn't have ESI's directwire feature


Refresh my memory...what does directwire buy you that a program like VAC can't do?

Also, what's the cheapest 8 channel firewire you know of that will do the job?


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## thehatedguy

New round of questions...

How are you guys doing volume control? Any issues doing it through the sound card?

Any issues with turn on/off pops?

With a pro style sound card, will I get better sonics over a consumer based card? Also, I want something that sounds as good or better than my Rane...which is heads and shouldars above the Alpine stuff.

Quad core processors present any special challenges?

And Frequency Allicator, it can do up to 40 db/oct slopes? Anything besides Rubberfilter that can do really steep- like 96 db or greater slopes?


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## thehatedguy

Never mind on the quad core...

Would it not be cheaper to buy a premade desktop system, and take it all apart vs. building your own?

www.tigerdirect.com/email/wem1641.asp


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## amapro704

Its all about whether or not you can power it.. Thats why most use low power mobo's/ cpu's. Powering a carputer by an inverter and power supply is imho not the way to go. A DC-DC power supply and startup/shutdown controller is best, but you are somewhat limited to what you can power with them... GL!


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## thehatedguy

I hear you on that.

Just seems like you can buy a refurb desktop and take what you want from it cheaper than you can put a similar system together for.

I'm just not sure at what point "enough" processor will be enough to do everything I want to do. This is all new to me.

Durwood, you still rocking that 7.1 Prodigy sound card? Looks interesting if you can find them...I have 2 dozen OPA2107s just laying around...2227s too.


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## felix509

That computer looks pretty good, nice price for sure.. The only thing you would really need to change from a desktop is the power supply.. 

OPUS makes a 320Watt that would power about any machine you want, unless you put some crazy video card in it, and you could most likely get by with a 250 watt or so with that machine you linked.. 

I have used an Audiocontrol MVC for volume, both with the DSP-6 and also before the DSP6 while i was doing processing with the computer.. 

Since you are using Zapco, maybe you could use some of the symbilink Volume controls, although that would get pricey depending on how many channels you are using..


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## CRD

I'm also installing a car pc, I have to choices DELL LAPTOP 700m or a motherboard in custom enclousure.

I bought a 8" Touchscreen on ebay for $170 shipped brand new with a samsung LCD. It's very bright for day use , if anyone interested they still sell it at that price. and ships from usa

I haven't choosed the audio card my options are USB or PCI.

USB for my dell laptop
PCI for my amd64 motherboard

As for booting time, just set your PC to Hibernate, mine boots very quickly from Hibernate. I have the PAC TR-7 that will work as the power button on my laptop each time I turn the car on/off .

If I choose the AMD64 motherboard I have 4GB of ram for it, booting time is always very quickly on XP.

I susggest installing the PC close to the monitor, I tried different good brand of VGA cable extenders and all of them caused fuzzy image on 3 LCD that I tested. In my case I will sacrifice either the glove box or the arm rest storage to install the laptop(without screen) or the motherboard.

Here are pics of the 8" LCD from ebay excellent resolution and touchscreen is fast responsive, you don't have to press hard like a lot of double din radios with touchscreens out there.


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## durwood

MarkZ said:


> Refresh my memory...what does directwire buy you that a program like VAC can't do?
> 
> Also, what's the cheapest 8 channel firewire you know of that will do the job?


If you can get it to work, with 3rd party routing apps, then nothing really. It seems to be a PITA or doesn't work as suggested-I don't know. Try it let me know, I couldn't get VAC to work with onboard sound, so I'm not sure if it works as suggested or not. 

M-audio Firewire410 _should_ work, however one person I know of had problems while two others have gotten it to work. It's a tad different than the 1010LT in terms of driver/control panel so I don't know how the other two got it to work for sure unless it was a SPDIF loopback via cable.



thehatedguy said:


> New round of questions...
> 
> How are you guys doing volume control? Any issues doing it through the sound card?


Not completely ideal, but does the job for now I tied into the rotary encoder knob on my factory radio to a mousewheel. A software script file runs all the time and ties the mousewheel to master volume control in windows. It's not ideal becasue you loose bit depth as volume is decreased. I'm still trying to find a way to either control the volume control in the VST HOST app, or build an analog one.



> Any issues with turn on/off pops?


I had turn off pop but a PAC TR7 took care of that, no more pop. 



> With a pro style sound card, will I get better sonics over a consumer based card? Also, I want something that sounds as good or better than my Rane...which is heads and shouldars above the Alpine stuff.


Most of the PRO style are are used for recording and music creation. I would focus on getting it to at least work with something, then worry about sonics later if you think it needs better. Just my opinion though.



> Quad core processors present any special challenges?


From tests I have seen, I'm not sure dual core is even used to full advantage yet when compared to faster single cores.



> And Frequency Allocator, it can do up to 42 db/oct slopes? Anything besides Rubberfilter that can do really steep- like 96 db or greater slopes?


Audiolense is the equilavent of a DEQX-linear phase up to 300dB slopes. 
Rubber Filter is done with 80bit precision in assembly code. It far surpasses limitations on the hardware side (32bit DSP chip, 24bit ADC/DAC, 16bit CD).
Waves can be used too, but not sure on max slope. Kind of costly plugin for filtering IMO.


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## t3sn4f2

Volume control in the digital domain.....

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=134124


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## ehiunno

Great thread. I am doing this as well.

I'll actually be using an old computer that I switched out for a new one recently. It should be fast enough. Good double check on the PS is to look up the processor you're using, find the max current draw, then check out how much power your PS supplies on the 12v rail. That will tell you whether or not a PS you are looking at can work. (Got that from the mp3car faqs, which has a boatload of information).

crd, can you link to that display? I have been looking for some.


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## t3sn4f2

$337 

(Zuki Recommended)

http://www.welbornelabs.com/remote.htm


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## thehatedguy

I would steer clear of Welborne...not so good business practices within the last year.

The volume control may be the largest hurdle keeping me from doing full processing in the computer. The Rane has the ability to do volume control, and has digital input...the carputer would then just serve as a media server, which would be the "less cool" way of doing everything.


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## ehiunno

Idea for volume control:

You could use a configureable mouse, hooked up like a normal mouse but with some two buttons, maybe left click and right click, it doesn't matter, configured to be volume up and volume down. Take apart the mouse and mount the buttons on the steering wheel or something.

Or maybe I am missing something, because that seems too simple...?


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## thehatedguy

I didn't know if the sound card had the ability to control volume, or if you would do it from the front end like through winamp or the other frontends. Doing volume control digitally on the front side could mean the loss of precision due to a dropping of bits.


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## t3sn4f2

thehatedguy said:


> I would steer clear of Welborne...not so good business practices within the last year.
> 
> The volume control may be the largest hurdle keeping me from doing full processing in the computer. The Rane has the ability to do volume control, and has digital input...the carputer would then just serve as a media server, which would be the "less cool" way of doing everything.


Thanks for the heads up.


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## durwood

Confusion on controlling volume in computers

I'm going to have to read that a few times over myself, but putting it here for reference.


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## t3sn4f2

By the way, what distortion level are we talking about here with the volume slider at the lowest setting you would have it at while listening not too loud in a quiet car, say with using Kmixer as the worst case?

If it's something wayyyyy under 1% imma be really  for wasting all this time researching better volume control alternatives.


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## thehatedguy

Looks like Foobar can do volume control. This is good. I think.

Now, what freaking sound card to use? I think I found one like Durwood reviewed on mp3car...atleast the website says they are in stock. Next step up would be a pro card at 4x the price...and there are a couple used RME Hammerfall 9632s on eGay in the $400 range.


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## felix509

thehatedguy said:


> Looks like Foobar can do volume control. This is good. I think.
> 
> Now, what freaking sound card to use? I think I found one like Durwood reviewed on mp3car...atleast the website says they are in stock. Next step up would be a pro card at 4x the price...and there are a couple used RME Hammerfall 9632s on eGay in the $400 range.


Hi Randy, What front end are you planning on using?? 

I wanted to use Foobar as my player but never found any front end that supported it.. Maybe they do now, i have not been keeping up with new releases of roadrunner, etc..

I am putting a new computer in my Saturn Vue, so i need to do some reading on the things that have improved in the last 6-8 monhs.. 

My attempt to do processing in the computer was Freq Allocator and a PCI/external box soundcard called Echo Layla3G.. It actually worked really well except the Echo drivers did not play well with the hibernating.. I had to ditch it as the inputs and outputs needed reset each time it came out of hibernation.. 

Laters...


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## thehatedguy

This is winslow...randy is "the other hated guy"

You know, I dunno what front end I am going to use. I'm just now getting serious about buying components...and wrestling with the sound card issue, lol.


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## felix509

Ha, I need to read the name better.. My mistake.. 

I have been using RoadRunner with Winamp and a FLAC plug in. I always keep my volume at 50% in Winamp and use the analogue volume though.. Winamp volume at 50% is equal to 0db, so no effect from volume on the output. 







thehatedguy said:


> This is winslow...randy is "the other hated guy"
> 
> You know, I dunno what front end I am going to use. I'm just now getting serious about buying components...and wrestling with the sound card issue, lol.


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## ehiunno

winslow, whats keeping you from using the 1010lt? Its significantly cheaper than the pro-level options, and I doubt you would notice a degradation in sound quality if you set your gains for 50% on winamp and only adjusted up or down on poorly recorded tracks.


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## thehatedguy

Nothing, I keep coming back the 1010LT...seems like a good card.


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## durwood

I really cringe recommending the Audiotrak Prodigy Hifi. I like it, it works for me, but I will not say it did not come without hiccups and support from Audiotrak is lacking. However, it is the cheapest route for 8 channel.

An issue with using the volume control on the Audiotrak, at 0, it is still playing..ie it never mutes unless you press mute. No idea why. However, if you use winamps volume control or foobars volume control it will fully adjust.

No idea on this seller, but he was selling them on ebay for a while @ $110 with free shipping.
http://stores.dladamsart.com/Detail.bok?no=37

kangsound has them for sale occasionally on ebay as well. The last place I found the audiotrak recently was floridamusicco.

If you want more channels down the road, the 1010LT seems like the clear winner over the audiotrak without jumping up in huge costs to easily making the processing all work.


No frontend is based on foobar unfortunately, but it can be reskinned and it's easy to assign hotkeys to commands in it. I remember the creator of Roadrunner mentioned it's near impossible to interface RR with foobar due to the differences in coding languages. If all you are concerned with is an audio jukebox, no gps or video, then foobar is fine IMO-no need for a frontend GUI.


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## ehiunno

Seems like a good option for a lot of people, Durwood. I'll check that out before buying a 1010LT. What kinds of problems did you run into using that? Did you ever write a setup guide for it?


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## durwood

I did a review of it @mp3car but before I could do a full writeup on how to set it up with nice screenshots, I got anxious and put it in my carpc which makes it hard to do screenshots. However, the driver control panel allows you to save config setups so anyone that has this card I can send you a config file, you load it up and wala!-the routing part would be done. Then all you have to do is play with it in whatever HOST app you pick. The routing part is easy on this card. I would help anyone with this if they purchase this card.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audiotrak-Prodi...ryZ41787QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My gripes:

1) The color coding listed in the manual did not match the channels. I had to test with headphones (which is a good idea at first so you don't blow anything up by accident when testing the VST crossovers).  I think they fixed this in the latest manual though.

2) I had a bad channel (grounded out or wired incorrectly) from the 15pin to 3.5mm jacks. I did some metering and with the help of another member, I got the pinout of the cable and made my own with RCA ends so it looks cleaner anyway.

3) Once I got blue screens of death and the computer restarted every time windows loaded up. Another time, the card disappeared as if it wasn't installed. Both times I had to take the card out of the PC, uninstall the drivers and re-install. I don't recall, but I think the drivers that came on the CD were bad and I had to go looking on the Korean or Japan website for drivers for the Prodigy XT instead. Since then the US website has been updated and the latest drivers are their now. These two issues were ONLY during first install-it has not happened over the last 1.5 years that I have been using this card. 

4) This is an ongoing problem, but I think MOST cards using ASIO suffer from this. Hibernation seems to be hit or miss. I have my theories on how to fix it, but it took a back seat for a long time since I just got used to the full startup/shutdown.


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## ehiunno

Man, that card is a beaut.

I also like the idea of being able to get that config file from you and simplifying the routing part a bit . And saving $50 or so is always good.

From what I can tell you are spot on about the hybernation problem. Just about every ASIO card I have looked at has had that problem, but I drive a diesel, so with some streamlining of startup I don't think I would have a problem waiting for turn on/shut down because I have to let the glow plugs heat up every time I get in the car.


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## CRD

ehiunno said:


> Great thread. I am doing this as well.
> 
> I'll actually be using an old computer that I switched out for a new one recently. It should be fast enough. Good double check on the PS is to look up the processor you're using, find the max current draw, then check out how much power your PS supplies on the 12v rail. That will tell you whether or not a PS you are looking at can work. (Got that from the mp3car faqs, which has a boatload of information).
> 
> crd, can you link to that display? I have been looking for some.


This is the seller aparently he sold out the 8" ones but he haves the 10" lcds , just ask him for the 8" lcd he might have more in stock.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZdirect4all


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## thehatedguy

Been thinking about something like this:

www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3770838&CatId=3480

Has Vista on it...dunno how big of a pain that would end up being. But was thinking this route so I could get everything working in the house before I transfered it to the car.


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## MarkZ

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I've enabled "vol ctrl" in VAC and the player's volume control works. So what's the issue?


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## ~thematt~

I read somewhere, cant remember where now, that VISTA is the first OS from MS that does bit-perfect rendition of digital volume controlling. Everything before it doesnt. Read it from a post from some nerdy computer guy who worked at MS.

Also, what about EMU boxes for external DAC with full 8 channel routing and PC processing capabilities (plus it should retain volume control through windows)?


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## t3sn4f2

~thematt~ said:


> I read somewhere, cant remember where now, that VISTA is the first OS from MS that does bit-perfect rendition of digital volume controlling. Everything before it doesnt. Read it from a post from some nerdy computer guy who worked at MS.
> 
> Also, what about EMU boxes for external DAC with full 8 channel routing and PC processing capabilities (plus it should retain volume control through windows)?


I think thats from Amir on the AVS thread.

""Vista will adjust the volume using internal floating point values rather than integer. So it does not reduce resolution as XP did."

Benchmarks latest test seem to back that up.....

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide

"Overview: Windows Vista Audio

Windows Vista, unlike its Windows predecessors, requires the user to set the sample-rate for streaming audio. Windows 2000 and XP simply streamed at the sample-rate inherent to the audio file and/or media player being used.

In our testing, we found evidence that Windows Vista always sample-rate converted the audio, even if it was configured to match the sample-rate of the audio being played. However, the sample-rate conversion within Vista performs extremely well, only causing very small amounts of distortion (on the order of -120 dBFS).

This article will guide you in properly configuring your operating system and media player.
[edit]
Guide to Configuring Windows Vista
[edit]
Keep all digital volume controls at 'unity gain' (100% or 0.0 dB)

* This applies to digital volume controls in media players, Windows Volume Control, or any others
*o If any digital volume control is used, we recommend the Windows Volume Control, as it causes very little distortion* 
* We recommend always using an analog volume control (post D-to-A)
* Read more about the effects of digital volume control to see why this is important "


This is only something that Foobar could do. So Vista should be good enough.

Plus for anyone that doesn't trust the resampler/mixer in Vista, Foobar now has a plugin(?) to make use of the "exclusive" function in Vista.


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## bretti_kivi

but vista is a resource hog - don't even think about using a main, system disk that's smaller than 40GB. If you need to deal with low / high temps, as I do, then that gets prohibitively expensive rapidly.

I'll be using a UCS pro and a Terratec phase 26 USB. The 6-channel output doesn't work with Vista, but it does with XP; I haven't moved from foobar. 
I've also stolen a set of media controls from a dell keyboard; they are now correctly set so that forward, back and volume. 

I'm intending to use XP with 512MB and a 7" TFT @ 848x480; problem is, it's LVDS and the res isn't supported by the chipset's linux drivers, otherwise I would be using Linux.

Boot time is also <15s, with EWF, but since I want to surf, I think I need AV and that means no EWF. I'll have to play and test.

I've also got a 7" TFT USB kit here, if anyone's interested; that means the USB Touch part of a touchscreen. For a Xenarc or cartft.com user, this is pretty cool because it means you can add touchscreen capability; alternative which I'm still thinking about is to simply put it somewhere else, as the screen res deteriorates mildly when using it, as all screens do. I could then use it as a big touchpad.....

Bret


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## MarkZ

bretti_kivi said:


> Boot time is also <15s, with EWF, but since I want to surf, I think I need AV and that means no EWF. I'll have to play and test.


Pardon my ignorance, but what's EWF? I typed it into google, and up came Earth, Wind, and Fire.


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## bretti_kivi

Extended Write Filter. I can't remember just how fast it is, but it's silly fast when compared to my work XP. Shutdown was into single figures (4s?) and startup (from cold, including login) was really fast, with the only problem being the BIOS taking too long. If I were to link this to the unlock, I'd be booted before I have my belt on. 

nLite deserves more attention.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838511.aspx


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## thehatedguy

Still searching...

Monitors...I can get Accelevision. Or is better to cough up the bucks for a Liliput or Xenarc?


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## t3sn4f2

thehatedguy said:


> Still searching...
> 
> Monitors...I can get Accelevision. Or is better to cough up the bucks for a Liliput or Xenarc?












http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/870

http://www.cartft.com/community/Story/death_valley/

One of the really good things about theses is that you can control the touch screen with your finger tip even though it is not a 5 wire type. You don't have to use your nail only like the mp3car trans reflective model (from what I've read so far). 

Another thing that looks pretty handy is that the perimeter of the front face looks to have the indentation at the same place where a double din ISO mounting kit would rest on. So you can file down the outside of that dip and fit the monitor from behind onto one of those kits fairly easily and have it look like its part of the dash kit.


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## felix509

I have used Xenarc only so far, but that is not saying they are best or better than the cheaper ones.. 

http://www.karpc.com/

I have been shopping at KarPC, they alway s have a good selection and sometimes they have really good specials..


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## durwood

I'm still sporting the early gen Liliput 619 (5+ years old now I think?). My wallet is able to help me cope with the screen being washed out in sunlight. I also figure how often do I need to look at the screen during the day when I'm driving anyway-my eyes should be on the road? Yes GPS is kind of hard to use during the day though.

I think the newer generation screens keep getting brighter and brighter which also helps cope with being washed out if you don't want to pay for transreflective.

Does Accelevision make VGA monitors or are they only composite vid? I haven't looked at them in a long time.


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## thehatedguy

Yeah, Accle has 8s and 10s that have both VGA and S video inputs. Couple are touch screen too. About 300 nit.


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## AWC

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...bit96kHz-FireWire-Recording-System?sku=184133

I own this and am considering going carputer. is this pa possibility? I have only begun to search so I'll not need a reminder...just wondering.


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## tom///m3

thehatedguy said:


> K, been thinking about taking a plunge in the deep end of the pool for a while now and trying something new with a carputer. Basically...I want my cake and eat it too. I want a music server- don't care about video or GPS, and I want as much or more processing than what I have with the Rane RPM88 I have...plus maybe the ability to play with ambiophonics/vbap/ambiosonics if I wanted to get kinky.
> 
> Can such a system be built to do all of that without breaking the bank? I'm not sure how much processing power I would need to make all of that stuff work well...and still be able to boot fairly quickly. I see that Andy and Gary have been playing around with the Mac Minis...and those look attractive just based on shear form factor. Plus I think a good USB sound card that support ASIO would allow me to go that route if I decided down the Apple path.
> 
> Been reading as much here and on mp3car that I can.


I would say use a PDA and a bluetooth deck. 

I have a Pioneer P9800BT and Samsung I760 PDA phone in a charging cradle then I link the PDA viaA2DP for stereo audio for streaming audio from shoutcast.com and the HFP for handsfree calling.

I also have tomtom installed on my pda and use a tiny bluetooth gps reciever that I keep on my keychain

The deck also has an Ipod module that I use, cheapest and easiest way to get a "carputer"

Tom


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## thehatedguy

Eh, no that wouldn't do it for me.


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## t3sn4f2

tom///m3 said:


> I would say use a PDA and a bluetooth deck.
> 
> I have a Pioneer P9800BT and Samsung I760 PDA phone in a charging cradle then I link the PDA viaA2DP for stereo audio for streaming audio from shoutcast.com and the HFP for handsfree calling.
> 
> I also have tomtom installed on my pda and use a tiny bluetooth gps reciever that I keep on my keychain
> 
> The deck also has an Ipod module that I use, cheapest and easiest way to get a "carputer"
> 
> Tom


Waow streaming a stream, uh uh.


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## felix509

tom///m3 said:


> I would say use a PDA and a bluetooth deck.
> 
> I have a Pioneer P9800BT and Samsung I760 PDA phone in a charging cradle then I link the PDA viaA2DP for stereo audio for streaming audio from shoutcast.com and the HFP for handsfree calling.
> 
> I also have tomtom installed on my pda and use a tiny bluetooth gps reciever that I keep on my keychain
> 
> The deck also has an Ipod module that I use, cheapest and easiest way to get a "carputer"
> 
> Tom




WOW, that is like the Anti-Car Computer set up... 

What bit rate and compression is shoutcast to be able to stream on a mobile phone?

I personally like mine all integrated, not a separate, gps, phone, etc you got to pull out to do different things.

My $0.02..


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## t3sn4f2

felix509 said:


> WOW, that is like the Anti-Car Computer set up...
> 
> What bit rate and compression is shoutcast to be able to stream on a mobile phone?
> 
> I personally like mine all integrated, not a separate, gps, phone, etc you got to pull out to do different things.
> 
> My $0.02..


Plus the A2DP compression of the compressed signal.


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## tom///m3

Wow, sorry for my input jeez.

Tom


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## thehatedguy

I have a Denon DCT-1 and a Rane RPM88...I doubt your method would get me anywhere near that level of tuning and SQ. Plus I want everything in one box if I can.


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## bassfromspace

tom///m3 said:


> Wow, sorry for my input jeez.
> 
> Tom


Don't be. I think they're just saying that the setup you've mentioned will leave something to be desired and the goal is to attain the highest possible quality.


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## Archmage

I've always fantasized about a mobile setup that could play 1080p, blu-ray, and just about process anything:

- Intel 45nm core2duo (or quad if you want), undervolted and underclocked for heat/power reasons; use one of the many available bigass heatpipe heatsinks...
- Intel p45 chipset motherboard (newer, and runs pretty cool compared to x38/48 chipset), probably an asus p5q-e ($160) or maybe something simpler...
- 4gb pc1066 or higher DDR2 ram (under $100)

- ATI radeon hd4850 (55nm vs nvidia's 65nm): with a bios flash (not well known yet, but it works) these run very low clock speeds at idle, and clock back to normal when using video. The power consumption is quite reasonable. I recommend aftermarket cooling, like an accelero s1 v2 for around $20-$25 (svc compucycle has it, newegg has it, others have it). This has no fan, but with just a little case airflow it will work better than stock - and you DO NOT want that video card fan spinning. 

- Emu 1820m (8-outputs) or 1616m (6-outputs) sound card (1616m has an external option as well) = amazing processing options, same DACs as protools HD. ---- OR Soundcard of choice (budget). I was also thinking I might be able to make the Auzentech Prelude or X-fi Elite work somehow... cuz those would be killer gaming cards too. The Prelude has swappable op-amps! Asus Xonar D2 also looks interesting.

- western digital 640gb AAKS (was selling for $90 at Directron recently http://www.directron.com/wd6400aaks.html , I got mine for $100 from there - it's fast = tied with fastest 7.2k rpm SATA drives)
- blu-ray drive of choice (haven't done my research)
- wireless device of choice 
- Corsair hx620 PSU possibly? something similar to that... maybe go for high efficiency actually (I'd need to review the options). The PSU will not draw much power if you don't ask it to, it's really just the space requirement which you have to worry about. You'd probably want to remove the fan(s) inside because of noise, and duct some case airflow through it.
- Custom Case (or a HTPC case... anything compact)
- A few 120mm fans and a potentiometer fan controller!

- Or just straight watercooling if you can swing it...might be able to pull it off using just 1x120mm undervolted fan for the whole setup as long as you can duct that air over the videocard, PSU, mobo, hard drive... well you'd need to do some creative ducting to do all of that and pull the air through the radiator. Maybe 2x 120mm fans then...

After finding room for this box, the next problem would be finding a display which would warrant this kind of setup, and then somehow USING that display in a car. How the hell? I've pondered this myself... but it WOULD be fun (Audio, video, gaming, work).


Hmm... that sounds oddly similar to the Desktop I'm about to build... yea that's ridiculous overkill, but it'd be great for a HTPC... in-home, so keep that in mind.


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## Archmage

OK - you could obviously just use a laptop and the external emu-1616m sound card for that whole thing above, but I think Voice-Operation could make this whole thing more practical:

My Razer Tarantula keyboard has all sorts of nifty macro-features from which I can assign shortcuts to specific user-programmable keys, and add specific delays to these keys, etc... I can make it such that 1 keystroke represents a programmable timed-sequence of multiple keystrokes. How about we do this through voice-command?

This could even offer some security for the system.

1. Automate audio processing environment upon startup
2. Voice-command macro's to control music/video (examples to follow):

"Video1" = load video media player of 1st choice
"Video2" = load video alternate video player
"Audio1" = load FOOBAR for example
"Audio2" = obvious

"Next" = next song
"Playlist" = next playlist
"Increase" = increase volume +1
"mute"
"Pause"
"skip" - maybe skip through the song in increments of 20 seconds or so?


You'd have to get creative about this, but I could see it working. It would require some research, but I'm pretty sure it's possible. Unfortunately I'm not at all ready for a mobile solution, so someone else will have to do the work.


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