# DIRT CHEAP sound deadening ???



## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

ok I remember seeing someone buy roofing tar from home depot and mixing with sand or whatnot to deaden thier entire car...


I have up next on my list of TDD: Sound deaden the CRAP out my entire Wagon...

I plan to pull the seats ,carpet, door panels and roof liner etc etc...

SO, I am going to need ALOT of deadening material...

what is the CHEAPEST stuff I can find ???


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

illnastyimpreza said:


> ok I remember seeing someone buy roofing tar from home depot and mixing with sand or whatnot to deaden thier entire car...



 Seriously?


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

yea i seriously remember seeing that as well but cant seem to find the thread


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Wow. 

Save up and do it correctly the first time. Its not like putting in a cheap midrange while you save up for something better, the deadening is permanently attached to your vehicle (in theory at least).

http://www.raamaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

I agree with doing it right the first time but sometimes your finances wont allow or you dont feel the added performance does not warrant it. I do really advise you to use the real deadener on the roof and doors due to the possibility of it failing but honestly think a DIY version for the floor is fine if you dont mind the smell for a few weeks and realize it is permanent


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Would that roofing tar not smell like A$$. Use the Edead its pretty cheap. Doesn't matter if it sticks good on not its on the floor. For the doors and roof I would use a quality product like Raamat. When trying to save money sometimes it better to save up and do it right the first time. If the first time fails then you will be spending money again. By the time you get done re-doing it again with cheap stuff you have spent as much money as if you would have done it right the first time.IMO

Just my .2 cents


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## Abmolech (Nov 2, 2006)

By far the cheapest will be aluminium foil.
Motor revolutions say 600 - 6000 RPM which translates to 10 to 100 Hz. Absorbers are not successful at these frequency ranges unless they are several feet thick.
Sound deadener's have there place (centre of large flat panels), 
Absorbers for taming higher frequency reflections
Blockers for reducing sound ingress.

Stay away from asphalt (tar based) solutions inside your car. I sure (hopefully) rudeboy will give you some health data, mine is that the elasticity drops drastically in a short period of time. Since its prime function is a decoupler, this is nothing short of a disaster. (Short term gain for long term pain)


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

My favorite deading that I have tried is definatly the second skin Sludge.

EASY to apply, and THICK as hell....

BUT its expensive as ****...

I would like to think that a "sludge" like material would be easily duplicated from the "depot" or another store that would produce similar deadening results....

after all, ALL we are talking about is literaly a bunch of "heavy crap" to stick on our car... how hard can it be to find a GOOD alternative to deadening mat, which usualy requires at LEAST 3 or 4 ...up to 5 or 6 layers to truly achieve deathly silence.


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## rdv (May 14, 2007)

PE's sound deadening mats? I've used them twice already and they're pretty good IMO. I reopened the doors of the first car I put them in and after about 6 months they're still there : ). The square pieces will not be practical for large spaces though


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

edead sucks, I wish I'd never used it. Get Raamat, and do it right the first time.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

heres the concrete and roofing compund thread, sounds crazy but im sure his car is as dead as they come.

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=144035



> If you are serious, I have a concrete mix Ive found works very well (stayed on a door after getting t-boned by a mini-van).
> 
> Kool-Seal... its an elastomeric roofing compound found in most hardware stores, made for sealing a mobile home roof. Alot of people experimented with using it directly as a sound deadener several years ago... didn't work. But, I found when mixed with concrete, makes a sticky concrete that stays on sheetmetal.
> 
> ...


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Patching concrete mixed with roofing tar. Hmmm. 

I guess I would experiment with that if my car was a POS and I really didn't care what happened to it. Otherwise I would use Raammat or Second Skin or something similar. 

And I do not mean any offense to the person who you quoted. For all I know he could be a 10 time IASCA grand champion and knows 100 times more than anyone else when it comes to car audio. Me, personally, could not do that to a vehicle when other products exist. Once again, no offense intended.


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

internecine said:


> heres the concrete and roofing compund thread, sounds crazy but im sure his car is as dead as they come.
> 
> http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=144035


wow thats actualy a completely different one than I was talking about...

it seems that more than I am interested in better/cheaper deadening alternatives...


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

I remember someone mentioning cork. It could be applied to a flat surface and who cares if it moves around. It won't soak up moisture if you use the right kind. Any one else have thoughts on it? Would it be considered a blocker or absorber?

Sand in big indestructable plastic bags?

How expenisve is a sheet of lead?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

illnastyimpreza said:


> wow thats actualy a completely different one than I was talking about...
> 
> it seems that more than I am interested in better/cheaper deadening alternatives...


EVERYBODY is interested in better/cheaper sound deadening. Finding it is more difficult. I remember the thread you are talking about, but not where I saw it. I remember sand and I think it was asphalt roofing sealer, but I'm not sure. Maybe the fumes killed the guy  The Kool-Seal isn't asphalt, but it isn't dense enough to do much for you. I've seen a few posts by people mixing things into it to try increase density.

Problem with any of these things is that it really isn't much help to add a ton of concrete or even say 10 layers of top notch sound deadening mat. These are vibration dampers and while they are critical, they only get you so far. Don't get me wrong, they will make a big difference, but when you start talking about sound deadening the hell out of a vehicle, you really need to take a more nuanced approach using different materials for different problems - barriers, absorbers, a whole range of tools.


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## Preacher (May 8, 2006)

I'm resigned that its that much easier and cheaper (price/performance) to go with something like Raamat. But if you can find some of this stuff it will work. Cement and Roof stuff. I found some cork on sale cheap once, but went back and it was remarked. 

I've taken out any cork I had. It was good as an ensolite substitute, but I didn't have it in well. One thing I haven't seen on here is some adhesive (roof stuff) with shedded tires pressed in. You get some absortion, diffusion, and mass all at once and you don't have to use as heavy a mix of the roofing tar. 

I just cant get shredded tires locally.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MidnightCE said:


> edead sucks, I wish I'd never used it. Get Raamat, and do it right the first time.


I'm starting to feel the same way.

After seeing what I've seen, I can never recommend it.


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I was just going to suggest peel and seal, no problems over a year in hot and humid nj. No smell either. I did spray adhesive on the doors because of the fear of it falling off but it hasnt even on trunk lids upside down.

But Zuki's technique sounds great and is very intriguing. Seems to be gone, but I saved it to word pad. If youre interested pm me and Ill send it over unless he would prefer I did not. I have no business alliances that could turn sour.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

zukiaudio said:


> .


I had just finished reading all that and was going to ask you if you had tried it.


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

the pm thing would not let me send that in one pm. so i stored it here. til i could complete the pm , and them removed it. please don't put that up. even if you saved it.

thank you





















ignore this link.
http://www.ceramicadditive.com/domehome2.html



http://insuladdstore.com/content.php?content=thermal-1.html


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

zukiaudio said:


> the pm thing would not let me send that in one pm. so i stored it here. til i could complete the pm , and them removed it. please don't put that up. even if you saved it.
> 
> thank you


You got it. i cant tell you I wont try it though.


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## daviddakine (Jul 2, 2007)

Would neoprene work well? I have a bunch of old wetsuits lying around.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

daviddakine said:


> Would neoprene work well? I have a bunch of old wetsuits lying around.


Not as a vibration damper - too light for one thing.


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## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

Properly treated Jute.

All kinds of neat things from McMaster-Carr.

Creative use of Good Stuff.

If you know where to look and understand what Rudeboy and abmolech are talking about, you can do it on the cheap.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Here's a reference to the sand mixture in a thread on ECA. I have no experience with this at all - not an endorsement, just providing the link.


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## daviddakine (Jul 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Not as a vibration damper - too light for one thing.


Is neoprene useful for any kind of sound treatment, other than a vibration damper? I've been thinking about what to do with my old wetsuits.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

daviddakine said:


> Is neoprene useful for any kind of sound treatment, other than a vibration damper? I've been thinking about what to do with my old wetsuits.


You could put them on top of a vibration damper as an absorber/reflection breaker upper


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

mouse pads that look like tiny wet suits ?

j/k


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## Fixtion (Aug 25, 2006)

zukiaudio said:


> the pm thing would not let me send that in one pm. so i stored it here. til i could complete the pm , and them removed it. please don't put that up. even if you saved it.
> 
> thank you
> 
> ...


In Reference to the metalshield product. What I gather from the reading, it would prove beneficial to apply a coating on an amplifier. Seems like something a few diy members should experiment with in detail. 

-Fixtion


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

Fixtion said:


> In Reference to the metalshield product. What I gather from the reading, it would prove beneficial to apply a coating on an amplifier. Seems like something a few diy members should experiment with in detail.
> 
> -Fixtion



the topic was about sound deadener.

the pm limits how much one can type. so i stored it here, til i could pm all 3 parts. then deleted it.

hopefully an amplifier already looks its best and needs no paint.

thats why it says ignore links.

sorry. i should have explained this


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

why dont you just post it? is a land of freedom of speech


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

azngotskills said:


> why dont you just post it? is a land of freedom of speech


x2. Feels like second grade and I didn't get to see the note getting passed around.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

daviddakine said:


> Is neoprene useful for any kind of sound treatment, other than a vibration damper? I've been thinking about what to do with my old wetsuits.



Neoprene is best used as a sound barrier. Before I purchased Ensolite to place under my carpet I did a little research. I asked alot of people especially on ECA and everyone told me Neoprene is superior for a noise barrier under the carpet. It's a closed cell foam similar to Ensolite. I'm not sure HOW it differs chemically or structurally. But I found a good source on Ebay. 1/4" and 1/8" is available. 72 SQ FT for around $110 shipped.

Heres the item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-8-...019QQitemZ290149370490QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Usually it's available in 1/4" but I think I've been promoting it a bit too much here. 

It's funny. I had a post in this thread and it's gone. It *should* be on page 2 since I haven't been at my computer since this thread was brand new. If I said something wrong I'd like at bare minimum an explanation at what I said that was so wrong.


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## boarder124 (Mar 16, 2006)

In my car i used Grace Ice and water shield as the sound deadner, and peel and seal on the roof of my car and trunk since i wasn't sure that the grace would stick, but after doing one layer of p&s i decided to put a layer of grace up on my roof and it hasnt fell down. If you are really broke and don't have a nice car i would suggest using the grace it is around $100 for 200 ft^2 and the peel and seall is around the same price for 100ft^2. The peel and seal doesn't leave any smell but the grace tends to at first. For sound absorbsion material i used Volara, i picked it up here http://www.foambymail.com/closedcell.html. It is pretty nice stuff but you will need some 3M super 77 or something of the like to attach it. I used that 3/8 for the floor and 1/8 for everything else. Btw orders over $50 get free shipping too of volara and the 3m spray. If i had the money and or a car i cared about i would use second skin or raammat


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

http://www.lizardskin.com/


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

zukiaudio said:


> ..


buddy, notepad is your friend. 

start > run > notepad


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

MidnightCE said:


> buddy, notepad is your friend.
> 
> start > run > notepad


Or just preview the post, copy it out when you are satisfied and then don't hit *Submit Post*, just close the browser. Consider the consequences if everybody used the forum as a scratch pad and saved an empty post each time.


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## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

zukiaudio said:


> http://www.lizardskin.com/


$95/gallon of that stuff is dirt cheap??


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

zukiaudio said:


> http://www.lizardskin.com/


It's not bad stuff at all. I've been testing it and I've used it. Pretty comparable to SS Spectrum from what I can tell. Not exactly an unknown super econo method.


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

it was only relevant 
as a expensive version of what those few posters saw
before i deleted the info.

it was just for the first few thread posters.to see what i meant

not to show a poor example of cheap deadner.


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## zukiaudio (Jan 31, 2007)

http://www.hytechsales.com/insulating_paint_additives.html


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

zukiaudio said:


> http://www.hytechsales.com/insulating_paint_additives.html


That's either the same as or similar to the filler used in Second Skin Firewall, Cascade TG-1 and Lizard Skin Ceramic Insulation. All are optimized for heat insulation and work very well at that. They also have pretty good sound insulation properties, but are fairly poor vibration dampers because the ceramic and glass fillers are so light. As an example, when cured, an equal volume of Lizard Skin Ceramic Insulation weighs less than 1/3 as much as an equal volume of Lizard Skin Sound Control.

Lizard Skin suggests that to sound deaden and control heat transfer, it is important that the Sound Control formula be applied first - in immediate contact with the sheet metal. 

You also need to be careful when mixing your own, if you are using a latex base. Latex is a water based suspension. Applying it bare steel can cause rusting under the paint, before the water evaporates. The better sound deadening liquids have anti-rust additives. Products designed for automotive sound deadening have many additives that regular latex paint doesn't. Some are resins that improve adhesion and increase viscoelasticity. Some add mass. Still others preventing cracking since sound deadeners are applied much more thickly than house paint.

That said, I used some of this additive in a gallon of paint I used to paint the attic exposed surfaces of a skylight shaft in the bathroom off of the master bedroom in my house. Did a very good job of insulating and stopped the condensation that was forming during the winter.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

Without looking in to the specs of those spheres it is hard to say if they will work or not.

I can tell you this about the ceramic spheres we use in Firewall. We have 2 mean mesh sizes. 50 and 130.
Of these 2 mean sizes we have 3 grades, each with a minimum crush strength of 5000 psi. (anything less than 1500 will get destroyed in the mixing proceedure.)


ANT


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