# Butler Audio TDB amps?



## soundboy (Jun 19, 2009)

HI..

How sounds them in the car? How big difference are them from real tube amps? 

Like idea to run TDB275 for tweeter / TDB2150 run for 6.5" mid/midbass in 2way frontstage.. Or are the much bettere to run example Class A amps (Genesis Dual Mono Class A etc?)

Are just the Milbert some are real car audio Amplifier? , how looks this others amps in this case?

TRU Copper (/old version)
US Amp AX-TU
DLS TA2
Genesis P15 ($$)

I can`t remember more product/model`s right now, please add it if our know more type of this amp class..


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## offtime (Jul 15, 2009)

Most of these are hybrid tube amps (like the butlers and dls ta), which means there are tubes in the signal path, but the power is amplified by a mosfet, or just like any other AB amp.

The tubes in the path should give these a warmer sound (or whatever characteristics the ones you are using give you), but they will not sound like a real tube amp (like milbert, zelos alltube, hss fidelity and others...).

Unhappily I have only heard the hybrids on actual cars and they didn't sound that much special as I was expecting, but I've never heard a real one. I asked a guy in Brazil who has a tube amp brand here (LPJ) and he said that there was no point trying to make a tube amp for use in mobile audio as the environment noise would make the details disappear and the harsh movement would probably damage the tubes.

Cya


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## Sonus (Jun 28, 2010)

I had the Planet Audio Hybrid Vacuum Tube amps, unfortunatly I didn't get to install them before they were stolen. They are still available through DTS Tuning - Die Tuning Spezialisten :: Tuning & Autozubehör

They were made or constructed by ZED Audio Corp. and Steven Mantz in the US.


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## pyrethrin (Jun 29, 2010)

I own both amps, the Butler and the Planet Audio 4 channel tube amps. There is no doubt that tube audio is as good in a car as it is in your home. The Planet Audio model sounds more like a classic tube amp and has a steep bass roll-off. It has wonderful "tube" character. The Butler on the other hand runs at full resolution and is very, very clinical while at the same time giving plenty of tube silkiness and warmth. I no longer use the Planet Audio after my last upgrade to the Butler -and it was quite an upgrade. The Butler was much better in our opinion.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

offtime said:


> Most of these are hybrid tube amps (like the butlers and dls ta), which means there are tubes in the signal path, but the power is amplified by a mosfet, or just like any other AB amp.
> 
> The tubes in the path should give these a warmer sound (or whatever characteristics the ones you are using give you), but they will not sound like a real tube amp (like milbert, zelos alltube, hss fidelity and others...).
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with most of this. The tubes used in the Planets, however, were chosen to reduce induced noise...though...only time will tell if damage would occur. I would say the daughter board where the tubes are mounted to would break first. 

At speed will you notice a difference? Probably not. How many of us listen while parked sometimes? I do 


Sonus said:


> I had the Planet Audio Hybrid Vacuum Tube amps, unfortunatly I didn't get to install them before they were stolen. They are still available through DTS Tuning - Die Tuning Spezialisten :: Tuning & Autozubehör
> 
> They were made or constructed by ZED Audio Corp. and Steven Mantz in the US.


Wow...I wonder if they _really _have them in stock or if they're on the site for show...

Either way...the 7100 is more expensive compared to the 754. That I don't understand...


pyrethrin said:


> I own both amps, the Butler and the Planet Audio 4 channel tube amps. There is no doubt that tube audio is as good in a car as it is in your home. The Planet Audio model sounds more like a classic tube amp and has a steep bass roll-off. It has wonderful "tube" character. The Butler on the other hand runs at full resolution and is very, very clinical while at the same time giving plenty of tube silkiness and warmth. I no longer use the Planet Audio after my last upgrade to the Butler -and it was quite an upgrade. The Butler was much better in our opinion.


I can't say I notice a huge difference, or even a quantifiable difference. I have 2 754s and a 7100 at the moment. IF I could do a side-by-side versus a normal A/B solid state with minimal time in between, I _might _be able to pick the tubes out. Maybe.

They're a pain the ass to let warm up every time you start the car, but they're so cool and different than most other amps out there. And they have great crossovers  Life's too short not to use different/unique/interesting stuff.


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## jwdrums0 (Nov 12, 2007)

Greetings,

To the OP, here's what I can offer you about the Butlers from first-hand experience.

I wanted to say, I saved up for 6 months to buy my Butler TDB 2150 and 475, so I was deeply committed to the idea of those amps being my last ones for my system's front stage...but to be perfectly honest they weren't very warm at all for me. Clean? Absolutely, no question. *But the fabled "tube warmth"? If you believe this, prepare to be disappointed sir.* These amps are a clean Class A/B design. That's all, nothing more. 
This knowledge cost me $3000, and I offer it to you for free.

Here are some other front stage amps I own- a set of PPI Art Series and a set of .2's, a few Sinfoni's, Genesis DMA and DMX's, Zuki Eleets 4 and SE 2-channel, and a few of the old Soundstream Reference 10.0 Class A's (which are actually just a class A/B design that sounds very nice). I mentioned my other amps FWIW to show you that I have bought and listened to many amplifiers and I think I know what sound you are after.

In my car right now I use Genesis, with 2 Soundstream Ref 10.0's for my subs...I have no complaints about these at all. 

If I were to recommend something to you...if you specifically want warmth and detail in your front stage, buy the McIntosh MCC amps. You cannot go wrong with those IMO. 

If you are zealous and insistent about buying tube amps, the Italian brand HSS Fidelity represent the absolute opulence. I'll also mention to you that Digital Designs have a tube design also, called the ZT45. Good luck!

Kind regards, Joe


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

Huh, never heard of the DD till now. Full push-pull in the car! :surprised:

To be honest, if I had to pay full retail price for my Planets, there would be no question that I would look elsewhere. The sound isn't _that _much different. Heck, I'm considering selling them all and going to Class D Kenwoods all around...we'll see.

Edit: My sig on my "home forum" is kind of a running joke between a buddy and I due to the new Acura commercial, which NoobTube has yanked 










I'd get flogged for having it on here since "all amps sound the same" :laugh:


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## Guy (Feb 16, 2006)

I have Butlers from the different lines produced over the years. 

I ran the first series which had adjustable distortion knobs... That always turned me off- I prefer to have my distortion preset for me. 

Never have looked to see if adjustable distortion is available on the Phaze or TDBs.


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## emak212 (Apr 13, 2010)

I own a Butler TDB 475. The soundstage and clarity produced from this amp are amazing. The amp reminds me of my $1000 2 channel Jolida tube amp. I actually auditioned my friends' and bought one used on this forum. I have yet to install it in my car and need $ for another project. PM me if you (or anyone) is interested in purchasing - I have feedback elsewhere, but not 50+ post required to post in classifieds.


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

Blade also made a tube amp very briefly, I believe 25 were made. I don't know if they were full tube amplification or not.


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## usmcsoldriver (Aug 13, 2007)

emak212. if i didnt just buy a B&K 200.2 for my home stereo (475$)... i'd so be all over that 475.

I currently own a TDB 2150, it runs my Mids/Tweets (on passive x overs). A Lovely Amp. 
Going to that from a MB Quart RAA2400, I can say that not all amps are made equal.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

After using my Milbert, I can't see myself not use tubes in my car (that's why I managed to upgrade my US Amps TU-4360 (first gen no Xover). 

Of course, in most cars, you won't hear the difference due to road noise. However, when you're parked, just enjoying your music collection, that's only when this becomes priceless. 

If you have a Lexus, then go ahead and get a tube amp. 

Kelvin 

PS: Heard a few Tube amps and some gives you the warmth and fullness of tubes, some don't. Please listen before you buy (if at all possible)


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## emak212 (Apr 13, 2010)

usmcsoldriver said:


> emak212. if i didnt just buy a B&K 200.2 for my home stereo (475$)... i'd so be all over that 475.
> 
> I currently own a TDB 2150, it runs my Mids/Tweets (on passive x overs). A Lovely Amp.
> Going to that from a MB Quart RAA2400, I can say that not all amps are made equal.


I see, let me know if you change your mind . I might actually buy a 2150 in the near future. I've only upgraded the frontstage in my civic, so a 2 channel amp is all I really care about. The people riding in the back can listen to crackles and pops for all I care, lol.


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## usmcsoldriver (Aug 13, 2007)

Omg we should so trade!
I know I have babied mine.
You "NEED" a 2150 and I "NEED" a 475!
Sound so obvious to me.


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## 67Block (Aug 3, 2010)

i had a few tube driver blues. very good on mid bass and subs.. i find them harsh on the tweeters.


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## emak212 (Apr 13, 2010)

usmcsoldriver said:


> Omg we should so trade!
> I know I have babied mine.
> You "NEED" a 2150 and I "NEED" a 475!
> Sound so obvious to me.


Haha I might be down for that if my amp does not sell. Right now, what I NEED is a little $$$. I might be putting it on ebay soon. To the OP: sorry we got a little off topic here, lol.


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## stickpony (Nov 8, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> After using my Milbert, I can't see myself not use tubes in my car (that's why I managed to upgrade my US Amps TU-4360 (first gen no Xover).
> 
> Of course, in most cars, you won't hear the difference due to road noise. However, when you're parked, just enjoying your music collection, that's only when this becomes priceless.
> 
> ...



Has anyone here done and A/B comparison of the old school US AMPS tube amps, either the tu4360 or the tu-600 to any Butler Audio amps? I am curious to know which one sounds better


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

I prefer the older Butler/Phaze audio amps with the adjustable tube effect knob. They sound more tubey than the Tube Driver Blue.


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## stickpony (Nov 8, 2010)

invecs said:


> I prefer the older Butler/Phaze audio amps with the adjustable tube effect knob. They sound more tubey than the Tube Driver Blue.


i assume that was the "distortion" knob everyone is talking about? i wish someone local in south FL had some butler amps i could listen to to hear for myself


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## habagat (Dec 6, 2009)

stickpony said:


> Has anyone here done and A/B comparison of the old school US AMPS tube amps, either the tu4360 or the tu-600 to any Butler Audio amps? I am curious to know which one sounds better


 Dont recall which series us amps they were but i liked the tube driver more.

to the OP get an audiowave Aspire! You wont be sorry


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## atsq17 (Nov 16, 2011)

Have any of you guys run subwoofers off them? Did they work well as a subwoofer amp? 

I am considering bridging my TDB 2150 into 1x500W 4ohms and running a Morel Ultimo 12 SC. Thoughts?


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