# 2way active vs 3 way semi active



## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Im just about to order some speakers, either focal ps165fx or the ps165f3. I have ability to do a 2way active front end as i have 4 channels available. My equipment is stock honda hu to ppi dsp88r to ti21600.5 and ive got a bm mkiv sub. The 2way will be a standard active setup but with the 3way set im thinking midbass on 2 channels and other 2 will go through passive, im planning to keep midrange and tweets together, either in kicks or apillar but thats another thread my main question is which would give overall better sound quality? The 2 way or 3way?


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Interested. My gut is that you'll have to make sure PLD is acceptable because T/A will be wonky. But I've seen this proposed and even done a bunch, so curious to see what people say.


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Tuning a 2 way front would be a lot easier and that way you would be fully active, no passives needed.

The control available over your system running fully active is incredible.


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

I think it depends on where the tweeters are crossed. If they are crossed high enough, you can get away with alot as for as placement as long as you can do things to match amplitude of the tweeters.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Personally ive always fancied a 3 way front but i understand a fully active front end offers alot of control. My ideas always been to have a dedicated midrange as my standard door position is very low so i thought a MR on axis with tweets could improve my stage whether in kicks or pillars. Although i would have to glass them in, not touched fibre glass since 2006 when i did some door pods for the very first time.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Two way active over a three way semi active everyday and twice a day over the weekends.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

In my Civic, 3-way fully active > 3-way semi-active > 2-way active.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Two way active. 

What you propose can be done but the best benefit of going active is time alignment and you will not be able to do it properly with the passive/active mix. TO ME the benefit I like the most about three way active is having a large mid bass up front. An alternative to your setup could be to find a tweeter that can be paired well with a large mid/mid-bass driver and run it two way. Morel used to have a setup like this were they used a tweeter and an 8 or 9 inch driver for mid /mid-bass duty.

Found it:
WoofersEtc.com - Elate 9 2W - Morel 9" Elate SW 2 Way Component System

This is the idea, you can probably achieve it without having to spend the 1500 bucks. Find a tweeter that drops to 3k or 2k and a mid-bass that can go that high and you could configure a very nice sounding system that way. A lot of us mix and match drivers like this to achieve what we want. I like ribbon tweeters, so I got a set and I paired them with ID mid bass drivers and run active with it. Sounds very good to me.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Appreciate the advice guys so 2 way should yield a better potential stage and sound?


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Both of my vehicles have a three way setup up front running off passive crossovers for the mid and tweet. Midbass active on both. As long as the mid and tweet are right next to each other it works just fine. My BRZ in stock locations and my RAV4 mids in the a pillars and tweets in sails. Time alignment will not be off enough to notice if the tweet and mid are next to one another.

Location of the speakers will determine if it will work for you or not.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Zippy said:


> Time alignment will not be off enough to notice if the tweet and mid are next to one another.


This may be true if you drive a McLaren F1.










Otherwise your time alignment will be off if you sit on one side of your car.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

fcarpio said:


> This may be true if you drive a McLaren F1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was referring to the TA difference between the mid and tweet on each side. Left tweet and left mid on a crossover that are next to each other physically will have a TA value that's all but identical.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Zippy said:


> I was referring to the TA difference between the mid and tweet on each side. Left tweet and left mid on a crossover that are next to each other physically will have a TA value that's all but identical.


For all practical purposes, yes. But you still need to delay the driver's side. Since you mention it, another alternative for the OP would be those KEF Uni-Q drivers that have the tweeter where the dust cap is.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

They look nice but expensive! So what I gather even if both tweet mid are next to eachother there is instances where I would still want need seperate t/a? The crossover does offer level adjustment for mid tweet.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

ImK'ed said:


> They look nice but expensive! So what I gather even if both tweet mid are next to eachother there is instances where I would still want need seperate t/a? The crossover does offer level adjustment for mid tweet.


If the tweeter and mid are right next to one another, then you can time align that channel as if it were a single speaker. Same as you would a two way active system. The difference is where you high pass the channel for the passive crossovers will be from your midbass up. In the range of 800 hz and up is where I like to high pass. The midbass will be 80-800ish band passed for my personal preference.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Agree with Zippy and totally agree with Papasin earlier. If the midrange and tweeter are the same distance from the driver, they are essentially a single driver from a time alignment perspective. The only issue would then be volume of the tweeter and if your cross gives you good enough control over this, you are golden. I am debating something similar on my own ride as I am thinking of going with a center still. One day I like it the next I don't. lol


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

james2266 said:


> Agree with Zippy and totally agree with Papasin earlier. If the midrange and tweeter are the same distance from the driver, they are essentially a single driver from a time alignment perspective. The only issue would then be volume of the tweeter and if your cross gives you good enough control over this, you are golden. I am debating something similar on my own ride as I am thinking of going with a center still. One day I like it the next I don't. lol


Below was my last setup. The drivers are the Illusion Audio C4CX set. The C4CXs come with passive crossovers, which are bi-amp capable and therefore gives you pretty good control between mid/tweet amplitude using the amp's gains.
































































I have no problems putting this "3-way semi active" setup against a "2-way active" setup. Personally I prefer 3-way fully active, but to achieve what I wanted to do in that previous incarnation would have entailed cascading multiple processors...and that has its own set of complications that I wasn't ready to tackle, well, at least not yet.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Those are a handsome set of speakers, I can get a decent deal on focal in uk so its a viable option they are like $900 in usa, how does that stage papasin? Is it a 2 seat car or 1 seat?


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

ImK'ed said:


> Those are a handsome set of speakers, I can get a decent deal on focal in uk so its a viable option they are like $900 in usa, how does that stage papasin? Is it a 2 seat car or 1 seat?


Illusion Audio and Focal are both distributed by Orca in the USA. Unless I'm mistaken or pricing has changed, the Illusion Audio C4CX set retails for $749USD and includes the bi-ampable crossovers.

Carbon C4 CX | Illusion Audio

My Civic is built for 1 seat. The stage was wide, high and deep. James who has commented heard that version of my build. I personally think it was pretty darn good, but since have changed it. Call it a disease.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

I meant the focal ps165f3 retails expensive in us in uk its £300 , what you running now?


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

ImK'ed said:


> what you running now?


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

That another illusion audio midrange? That alpine tweeter the type x ring radiator?


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

ImK'ed said:


> That another illusion audio midrange? That alpine tweeter the type x ring radiator?


Yes, Illusion Audio C4 midrange.

The Alpine tweeter is the DLX-F30T:

Google Translate


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Wow that seems like a rare find! Another thing would you recommend a pillar or kicks with the 3way?


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Hey Richard, I think that is the first pic I've seen of what you are now running. Did you have issues with reflections off the side windows from the tweeters? Actually, that might help with width too maybe? 

As for his previous setup, there certainly were no issues with the stage at all. Dead center and, as he mentioned, very deep. A very nice listen for sure. Wish I could hear your new setup. Planning a trip to Canada anytime soon?:laugh:


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

ImK'ed said:


> Another thing would you recommend a pillar or kicks with the 3way?



Both. 

...at least in my car, I found mids and tweets up in the pillars, midbass in the kicks to work very well. 










I know people will debate whether properly sealing and bracing doors can get you "solid midbass" but there's a reason why a certain master class world champion has in his sig "once you go floor, you will never go door"... and I buy that 100%. Only exception IME is if you are looking to do what garysummers or badfish did to their doors, but tactile feedback is less likely with the legs when they are deep in the kicks IMHO.



james2266 said:


> Hey Richard, I think that is the first pic I've seen of what you are now running. Did you have issues with reflections off the side windows from the tweeters? Actually, that might help with width too maybe?
> 
> As for his previous setup, there certainly were no issues with the stage at all. Dead center and, as he mentioned, very deep. A very nice listen for sure. Wish I could hear your new setup. Planning a trip to Canada anytime soon?:laugh:



I posted the latest setup in my build log James, along with the pic below which shows that the tweeter isn't as adjacent to the glass as far as aiming as you might think. Keep in mind these are also ring radiators, and they are 30mm at that. The specs Alpine provide are quite conservative. At least in my car and in my experimentation, crossing them as low as 2.5k/24dB was absolutely no sweat for these tweeters, and they are incredibly linear all the way up to 20k and was a pleasure to integrate and tune in my system. The installation hardware that came with them also made for no additional fabrication. All on my build log for full disclosure.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

papasin said:


> I posted the latest setup in my build log James, along with the pic below which shows that the tweeter isn't as adjacent to the glass as far as aiming as you might think. Keep in mind these are also ring radiators, and they are 30mm at that. The specs Alpine provide are quite conservative. At least in my car and in my experimentation, crossing them as low as 2.5k/24dB was absolutely no sweat for these tweeters, and they are incredibly linear all the way up to 20k and was a pleasure to integrate and tune in my system. The installation hardware that came with them also made for no additional fabrication. All on my build log for full disclosure.


Must've. missed that. I haven't been around here much lately. Wife lost her job so trying to not get tempted too often.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Im thinking midbass in door and midrange and tweets eitther in kicks or pillars but from a stealthy point of view kicks will be better as i dont want big pillar builds. There is enough depth possibly to push midrange flush into pillar but if i cover that with speaker cloth not sure if it will mess sound up


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

OP, what model car? I know you mentioned Honda, but just wondering which one.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Fn2 type r , like a civic 8th gen but a hatch


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

If the pillars, dash, and center console are similar to most 8th gen civics, my vote would be for pillars for midrange/tweet and midbass in door or better yet kicks if your goal is for a one seat car. My $0.02 FWIW.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Ok kewl think when speakers arrive i'll see where they fit


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

I ended up buying the 3way focal kit and have nearly completed my a pillars, one question I have is if I use the stock 3way crossover and obviously connect the midbass to 2 channels and the other 2 through the stock passives, what load will amp see and also will the crossover function fine without midbass connected?


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

ImK'ed said:


> I ended up buying the 3way focal kit and have nearly completed my a pillars, one question I have is if I use the stock 3way crossover and obviously connect the midbass to 2 channels and the other 2 through the stock passives, what load will amp see and also will the crossover function fine without midbass connected?


The crossover will not affect the final impedance of the driver set. If it is a 4 ohm set (likely) the amp will always see a 4 ohm load. Running the midbass totally outside the crossover will not affect things provided you have a way to control both of the crossovers required (hi and low pass).


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

I have a dsp , what I mean is a 3way passive say is 4ohm and if I remove the midbass but leave mid and tweet playing through crossover will the crossover still show the amp 4 ohm?


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

ImK'ed said:


> I have a dsp , what I mean is a 3way passive say is 4ohm and if I remove the midbass but leave mid and tweet playing through crossover will the crossover still show the amp 4 ohm?


Yes, as I said, the crossover does nothing to the impedance of the drivers. All it does is split the frequency bands up. All of your devices wll see a 4 ohm load from your speakers in this configuration. It is a very common way of setting things up.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

ImK'ed said:


> I have a dsp , what I mean is a 3way passive say is 4ohm and if I remove the midbass but leave mid and tweet playing through crossover will the crossover still show the amp 4 ohm?


The passive crossover will not output any midbass, if there is no speaker attached to it. It will show 4 ohm load to the amp still. The passive crossover is isolating frequencies to each speaker. If a speaker is not hooked up it will not produce those ranges.


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