# Helix DSP mini -realcenter



## 3hone (Nov 29, 2009)

Looking for some info regarding the Helix DSP mini and the realcenter feature. It appears that Helix developed an algorithm to create a proper center channel. I'd like to know how well it works? Currently I'm using a MS8 which upmixes with Logic7. Having a 2 seat tune is important to me so my choices have really been limited. The six channels on the mini should be enough for a 2-way front active, center and sub. Anyone with real experience, please share your impressions.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=411963&share_fid=10112&share_type=t

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

I put the Mini in about a week ago myself. I am using the RealCenter function for identical L-C-R dash speakers, with GB60's in each door for midbass and a GB12D2 sub. I haven't done any tuning yet (just crossovers), as I have been installing new wiring and a couple of new amps.

I did speak to Doug Dobson (dobslob) about how to do time-alignment for the 2-seat setup, so hopefully I'll find time in the next couple of days. Nonetheless, simply activating RealCenter made me smile, especially after applying the StageExpander function. I can only imagine that it'll get much better after some T/A & EQ.


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## 3hone (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks Jscoyne2, that thread was helpful, didn't see it in my searches. 

metanium, you are using identical speakers for L-C-R plus the GB60 and Sub?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

The Helix Real Center algorithm is pretty nice, but i'll be fully honest here.. it will not be able to do 2 seat as well as a properly set up ms8. The Logic 7 upmixing is pretty damn good. The Helix is a better processor overall, but the MS8 has a leg on it in the 2 seat tune department in my opinion.


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

3hone said:


> Thanks Jscoyne2, that thread was helpful, didn't see it in my searches.
> 
> metanium, you are using identical speakers for L-C-R plus the GB60 and Sub?


Yes, that's correct. I'm experimenting w/different drivers for L-C-R, but in all cases they're the same across the dash.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

metanium said:


> I did speak to Doug Dobson (dobslob) about how to do time-alignment for the 2-seat setup


What’s the process for setting up the time alignment for 2-Seat with the Helix Mini?


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## VincMartel (Mar 21, 2017)

To get a good 2 seats tune, I guess L and R channels need to be processed? With the Helix, only the center channel is processed. How is that limitating ?

I guess a clever usage of an all pass filter can help process the midbass frequencies.


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## 3hone (Nov 29, 2009)

Just realized the Match UP 7DSP also has the same features as the mini, plus 7-8 channels with amplification. Could potentially be the all in one unit I'm seeking. Is Match the same quality as Helix?


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## VincMartel (Mar 21, 2017)

3hone, 

It may be of interest for you. 

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/#/topics/410495


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

3hone said:


> Just realized the Match UP 7DSP also has the same features as the mini, plus 7-8 channels with amplification. Could potentially be the all in one unit I'm seeking. Is Match the same quality as Helix?


The Match lineup is designed specifically for integration so inputs are limited to Toslink, high level, and MEC cards. The software is the same and the DSP has the same features, and more than some of the Helix. The amplifiers are all very efficient, most are class HD. Of course the Director and URC controllers will plug in to any of them as well.


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## viking1 (Feb 23, 2019)

dobslob said:


> The Match lineup is designed specifically for integration so inputs are limited to Toslink, high level, and MEC cards. The software is the same and the DSP has the same features, and more than some of the Helix. The amplifiers are all very efficient, most are class HD. Of course the Director and URC controllers will plug in to any of them as well.


Do you know how the Class HD amps sound? Are they average Class D performance or something more like their Class HG?


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## rockgod (Jun 2, 2018)

This is a little old of a thread. But, I was looking at Helix DSP models. And, it looks like the D.3 and Ultra support Realcenter, but the Pro MK II does not. Is that right? Why would that be? I’m trying to decide what model to buy. I’m going to have left and right 3-way active, plus sub. And, possible, center. Hadn’t decided but could be. I know that the Ultra has more CPU oomph, and maybe should get it. But the D.3 seems like it has all the channels I would need. Well, I guess if I only used one channel for the center channel. (Or skip the center channel.)


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

The reason the Pro doesn't is because it was out before the RealCenter feature was introduced. I'm personally a fan of RealCenter, but prefer to utilize it in conjunction w/VCP to enable removing the center info from the L & R. The mini & DSP.3 don't have VCP.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

You could buy a V Eight or V Twelve. This would give you all the amplifier channels you need, RealCenter, and Virtual Channels.


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## rockgod (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks Ge0 and metanium. Generally speaking, I had never previously considered buying DSP/amp combos. It seemed like you couldn't pick the best DSP and best amps, you would have to compromise when getting a combo. But, looking at the V Twelve, well, maybe not. The amp seems like it is probably quite good. The 8 would be enough channels, but, a review said that if you don't use all the channels, it can provide more power to the ones you do use. The review said it doesn't offer bridging capability, but that option is sort-of like bridging. So, I think I would get the V Twelve. I already bought some ArcAudio KAR V3 amps, but, I guess I can try to sell them...

As far as the center channel, I've not configured such an animal. I'm guessing you would do mid and tweeter, two channels. And have mid-bass only left and right. Is that right or wrong?

Thanks everyone!

.


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

metanium said:


> The reason the Pro doesn't is because it was out before the RealCenter feature was introduced. I'm personally a fan of RealCenter, but prefer to utilize it in conjunction w/VCP to enable removing the center info from the L & R. The mini & DSP.3 don't have VCP.


How do you use the VCP's to remove the center info from the L&R? I am setting up my Ultra in my Tesla for C3CX's across the dash and was curious how you get this to work.


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

LOST_llama said:


> How do you use the VCP's to remove the center info from the L&R? I am setting up my Ultra in my Tesla for C3CX's across the dash and was curious how you get this to work.


#4 here should be a good start.






Two seat tuning guide / tips


Hey all, Do we have a list of resources, videos, guides, tips for doing a two seat tune with a physical center channel and processor with an up mixer? If not, can we put something together with this thread? Id love to start learning as I start acquiring the gear I need to do this...



www.caraudiojunkies.com


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

LOST_llama said:


> How do you use the VCP's to remove the center info from the L&R? I am setting up my Ultra in my Tesla for C3CX's across the dash and was curious how you get this to work.


1. You create a "CENTER" virtual channel (VCP), w/Real Center output assigned to this channel.
2. When you assign your channel routing (VCP to Outputs), the input for the left & right (tweeter & midrange) channels should use the LEFT & RIGHT (respectively) for 70-80% of their input and the CENTER for the remaining 20-30%. The CENTER portion of input on each of these channels should be 180-degrees out-of-phase with the LEFT & RIGHT portions, so it effectively cancels the mono info that's extracted by RealCenter from each left & right channel.


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

metanium said:


> 1. You create a "CENTER" virtual channel (VCP), w/Real Center output assigned to this channel.
> 2. When you assign your channel routing (VCP to Outputs), the input for the left & right (tweeter & midrange) channels should use the LEFT & RIGHT (respectively) for 70-80% of their input and the CENTER for the remaining 20-30%. The CENTER portion of input on each of these channels should be 180-degrees out-of-phase with the LEFT & RIGHT portions, so it effectively cancels the mono info that's extracted by RealCenter from each left & right channel.


Metanium and JVD240, thank you both! Out of curiosity, how does the StageEQ under the FX menus play into this?


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

LOST_llama said:


> Metanium and JVD240, thank you both! Out of curiosity, how does the StageEQ under the FX menus play into this?


I don’t use any of the other “FX” items besides RealCenter.


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

metanium said:


> 1. You create a "CENTER" virtual channel (VCP), w/Real Center output assigned to this channel.
> 2. When you assign your channel routing (VCP to Outputs), the input for the left & right (tweeter & midrange) channels should use the LEFT & RIGHT (respectively) for 70-80% of their input and the CENTER for the remaining 20-30%. The CENTER portion of input on each of these channels should be 180-degrees out-of-phase with the LEFT & RIGHT portions, so it effectively cancels the mono info that's extracted by RealCenter from each left & right channel.


Should the same technique be applied to the rear fill channels to give the left and right rear channels on the non-shared signal?


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

LOST_llama said:


> Should the same technique be applied to the rear fill channels to give the left and right rear channels on the non-shared signal?


You certainly can, but I haven't experimented much w/rears yet.


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