# Sq subwoofers



## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Out of curiosity is there that much difference between the following subwoofers besides price and rms power

Arc Audio Arc 12
Focal RSB-300 (Auditor Series 12 inch)
Morel Primo 12
Helix Espirit 12
Rainbow Ambross 12

What I am looking for how would these sound with a two way front setup up which would be a Hertz 165XL midbass with a Hertz HT-28 tweeter. It would be ran off passive on a Hertz HCP-4 amplifier (temporarily passive) until I get an external DSP or an Eclipse CD player with time alignment. My current head unit is a Kenwood Excelon X998. The vehicle would be a 2006 Kia Spectra SX sedan. The sub amp is a Kenwood that does 500 x 1 @ 2 ohms but can't think of the model number off the top of my head. Would be swapping it out with a better mono block amp in the future. 

I am looking for something that is more geared towards SQ and not SPL. I would love to go sealed but if you suggest ported then I am comfortable with that as well. 

Thank you. 


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I`d start with Pioneer TS-W1200Pro. absolutely killer sub for 100 bucks or less.

works in sealer or vented enclosure. 
And feel happy low passed at 350HZ playing well into mid bass region.

IMHO absolutely the best sub on budget.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> I`d start with Pioneer TS-W1200Pro. absolutely killer sub for 100 bucks or less.
> 
> works in sealer or vented enclosure.
> And feel happy low passed at 350HZ playing well into mid bass region.
> ...


My buddy got one a few weeks ago. It's horrible. No low end and very peaky in the lower midbass. I don't know how they call it a sub


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DC/Hertz said:


> My buddy got one a few weeks ago. It's horrible. No low end and very peaky in the lower midbass. I don't know how they call it a sub


Perhaps your buddy need to learn to build a proper box. I`ve seen many people build box too small and expect sub to perform. I installed few dozens of these subs, they are awesome.


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## 26062 (Jul 5, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> I`d start with Pioneer TS-W1200Pro


It's not even in his list.?!


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

It was a good box. It was the sub. Maybe we have a different idea of sub bass


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DC/Hertz said:


> It was a good box. It was the sub. Maybe we have a different idea of sub bass


maybe, I listen to music not SPL sinewaves. what box size was there? 

I replaced B&W 650 factory sub due to blown sub in factory B&W ASR650 with that pioneer and it was better than original B&W.despite box was smaller than optimal. No idea what your buddy did to screw up his install, defective sub, incorrectly wired DVCs?


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

Asks for advice, tells everyone their wrong. Winning


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

dede11 said:


> It's not even in his list.?!


So? he asked what sub to use on 500Wat 2Ohm. I gave him suggestion.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> maybe, I listen to music not SPL sinewaves. what box size was there?
> 
> I replaced B&W 650 factory sub due to blown sub in factory B&W ASR650 with that pioneer and it was better than original B&W.despite box was smaller than optimal. No idea what your buddy did to screw up his install, defective sub, incorrectly wired DVCs?


First he tried the recommended 1 cube. Huge roll off under 50hz. Then we tried 2 cubes. Both sealed. Huge roll off under 40hz. 
For $100 we had way better luck with the Alpine Type S


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

PorkCereal said:


> Asks for advice, tells everyone their wrong. Winning


Ain't that the truth.... :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DC/Hertz said:


> First he tried the recommended 1 cube. Huge roll off under 50hz. Then we tried 2 cubes. Both sealed. Huge roll off under 40hz.
> For $100 we had way better luck with the Alpine Type S



Telling you man there plenty of flying reviews on this very site, would they all be wrong?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

IMO yes they are wrong. I'm sure it would be great on a podium at a concert. It was pure crap in the car playing real sub bass.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DC/Hertz said:


> IMO yes they are wrong. I'm sure it would be great on a podium at a concert. It was pure crap in the car playing real sub bass.


what is real sub bass? It`s either music or it ain`t... 
Sub in the car 50 thousand times easier than that at concert.

Have you tried bass shakers yet? maybe exactly what your buddy need.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

You win Vic. Sure the POS was awesome. The type S was dropped in and sound much better 20-80hz. The pioneer didn't. Music does have low bass you know. Even refrerence music. 
Why am I ever arguing with you.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> I`d start with Pioneer TS-W1200Pro. absolutely killer sub for 100 bucks or less.
> 
> works in sealer or vented enclosure.
> And feel happy low passed at 350HZ playing well into mid bass region.
> ...


Interesting, you tried one IB?


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

DC/Hertz said:


> IMO yes they are wrong. I'm sure it would be great on a podium at a concert. It was pure crap in the car playing real sub bass.


Can you ask him to sell it to me cheap?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

He sent it back to sonic and got the Alpine


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DC/Hertz said:


> You win Vic. Sure the POS was awesome. The type S was dropped in and sound much better 20-80hz. The pioneer didn't. Music does have low bass you know. Even refrerence music.
> Why am I ever arguing with you.


Were You competing with me? what is it I won? 
Yes, why are you? I explained my prolonged experience with something.

I`m sorry but I trust my experience 100 time more that in your buddy`s abilities.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

dcfis said:


> Can you ask him to sell it to me cheap?


How cheap do you want? New one on ebay $87 or so. 110 at sonic.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

dcfis said:


> Interesting, you tried one IB?


nope. only vented and transmission line.


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## BillC (Feb 26, 2017)

dcfis said:


> Can you ask him to sell it to me cheap?


i just bought two of these, and I am not impressed either, in a pa setup I am guessing is where they would shine, but i'm out 87 bucks a piece, cant return because they have been mounted, make me an offer. 

I realize I am new here, if this violates the rules I apologize, but I can do it in an ebay listing or however the buyer wants to feel protected. I am prepared to take a loss on these, id just like to get 70-75% of my money back. by the way, awesome forums, I have been doing a lot of reading here as a guest for months, just finally registered. 

to the original post. I have a very old pair of mtx 4 ohm svc 12 thunder series subs, running them sealed in 1.25 cf dual box with an alpine pdx-1.1000 (cda-9887 h.u. absolutely no clipping) and they sound GREAT! I have turned the gain all the way up (1165 rms at two ohms) verified with scope and true rms fluke meter. crossed at 100hz 24db slope, and ran them for hours like this with rap and bass heavy music, they just take and take it, energizer bunny style, and honestly they sound absolutely amazing, but typically I run them at about 500 rms 2 ohm load. this is in a jeep liberty suv. fyi these subs pop up on ebay for 50 bucks a piece all the time, SEVERELY UNDERRATED, OFTEN OVERLOOKED, only rated at like 300 rms each, but they are awesome!


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

OP: May sound crazy but the Sundown SD3 series is an excellent sounding sub and doesn't need a huge box to do it...


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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

dallasneon said:


> OP: May sound crazy but the Sundown SD3 series is an excellent sounding sub and doesn't need a huge box to do it...


Agreed. I love mine in 1.2 cft and another guy here was claiming they work even better in .8 cft.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> what is real sub bass? It`s either music or it ain`t...


It's people's interpretation of whats bass is. It's like meeting some youngster or amateur and the first thing they mention is how many watts their 1986 Hitch stereo they inherited from their dad is but not understanding that sound is measured in dB not watts! Acoustics is a bit more diverse. 

I've heard many systems with what I call loud bass but not deep bass, but the owners think it is. Prefab subs that you and I know aren't developed for the lower octaves, but yet still people rave about them. I guess that's why someone thought my I6SW was 3 x 10's on 500+ whats, against his JBL 12" prefab on 400 watts. My tiny I6SW was running about 100 watts. 

My nephew runs his own DJ business. I know those PA speakers die off really early and struggle with anything below 60/70 ... but because it's loud, people might perceive that as deep/sub-bass, but it simply isn't.

Was the enclosure for the Pioneer TS-W1200Pro wrong? Well if PWK can make a 3.5-4" fullrange with 1mm xmax do this surely it's possible to get something half decent out of that Pioneer driver!


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

jamesjones said:


> Agreed. I love mine in 1.2 cft and another guy here was claiming they work even better in .8 cft.


I'm running one in .65 cft. and it sounds damn good...

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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

For a budget SQ sub I would suggest the Infinity Kappa 120.9 on 500-750 watts of power. They have the triple voice coil setup that allows 2 or 4 ohm impedance to be selected. Infinity suggests a box size of 1 cubic foot sealed but, I've seen first hand testimony stating that 1.44 (net) sealed yields the best results. 
I've played around with mine on approx. 600 watts in a smallish sealed box and they sound very nice. So smooth with excellent, articulate transients. Warning: they are NOT an SPL sub so don't expect them to get incredibly loud.
Just a suggestion.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

captainscarlett said:


> It's people's interpretation of whats bass is. It's like meeting some youngster or amateur and the first thing they mention is how many watts their 1986 Hitch stereo they inherited from their dad is but not understanding that sound is measured in dB not watts! Acoustics is a bit more diverse.
> 
> I've heard many systems with what I call loud bass but not deep bass, but the owners think it is. Prefab subs that you and I know aren't developed for the lower octaves, but yet still people rave about them. I guess that's why someone thought my I6SW was 3 x 10's on 500+ whats, against his JBL 12" prefab on 400 watts. My tiny I6SW was running about 100 watts.
> 
> ...


The Low oactave (20-40hz) is in fact missing on a lot of boxes. 
The bigger problem I see is more than the frequency response of the box or should I say the sub system. But more a problem with the group delay from this setup. 

I know using time delays can fix one spot of the sub oactave but not all of it 
And I would suggest that most find it sounds better to time align the upper bass to midbass so the timing differences are only at one extreme instead of two...

Even with time delay adding boosting the ultra lows or cutting 50-60hz with EQ doesn't always make it sound smooth. The timing issue is so extreme it usually sounds better with 20-40hz turned down..

Turning down the first oactave would in fact make it sound better and not loose and sloppy because the entire bass range is minimum phase.

The fact that it's minimum phase means that if you cut or have a natural cut in the first oactave would lessen the group delay and make it sound tighter and more "accurate", however it's far from it.

In a minimum phase situation, if there's lots of delay at the first oactave because of a port or transfer function, by turning down the amplitude would take phase and move its time in a -negative delay fashion, or lessen its delay because in minimum phase , phase moves with amplitude changes. 

If a system were to be time coherent by the use either FiR filtering or by a enclosure that is more immune to time differences.

Any common enclosure will exhibit group delay and the more compliance there is to a port the worce it gets. A sealed enclosure has far less group delay because the port is non-existent so its air spring compliance within the enclosure will have Exhibit its own character to group delay. And there's a lot of variables.

A inifimate baffle sub system would be the only real way to escape the ever so gripping delayed versions of our media. So without FIR filters a infinite baffle would be the best suited for the low low oactaves to sound right with midbass. 

The sealed box with the right sub would be a second place and would have to be critically damped to have a somewhat smooth transition from delay to non delayed bass. (Critically damped meaning a larger sized enclosure with a lower rolloff. 

So I think that suggests why manufactures of loudspeakers for subwoofers in cars recommend and build their subs around the middle of the bass region,
You get a lot of output and not very much low-end and overall it's decently smooth ..

If one was to use FIR filters , you can take the delay out of the sub system by means of delaying everything except the part that has the group delay. 
Only downside to those types of fixes is, everything comes out delayed so you have to compensate by delaying the rest of the speakers in the car so that it matches but the good news is it's a fixed number that can be precisely calculated . And it works very very very well . 


And we're not even talking about the delay caused by you active/passive crossover. Whole new problem and yet another issue to have to concider on a speaker system that runs less than a decade. It's a whole lot of problems in a relatively small area of the sound that makes the biggest difference. 


 
Cheers ?


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## Aslmx (Jan 10, 2017)

jamesjones said:


> Agreed. I love mine in 1.2 cft and another guy here was claiming they work even better in .8 cft.


Same here. I just got a SD3 10. It's down firing in around .75. It sounds great but I need more power. I only have 400 off a 5 channel.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

People stick a sub in prefab POS leaky boxes and blame sub fof poor performance, seen that many times.

Some people say morel ultimo doesn`t sounds good at all.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Agreed .....

Morel ultimo is an outstanding sub.

Probably the quietest motor I've ever heard. Meaning zero mechanical noise. But big$$$


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> Agreed .....
> 
> Morel ultimo is an outstanding sub.
> 
> Probably the quietest motor I've ever heard. Meaning zero mechanical noise. But big$$$


 .... not to mention big $$$ for a worthy amp!


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> So I think that suggests why manufactures of loudspeakers for subwoofers in cars recommend and build their subs around the middle of the bass region,
> You get a lot of output and not very much low-end and overall it's decently smooth ..


I don't know if they do go to that length of consideration. For example; how many 12" do you see with a 1 cube recommendation? A seriously high proportion. It _seems_ to have been adopted as 'standard practice/size'. Can't think all subs are made equal.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

captainscarlett said:


> .... not to mention big $$$ for a worthy amp!



That`s right, running it on 300W is insulting to that sub. 
Kilowatt or better 2 would be right there.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

there is constant limitation on room available for sub install. 
manufacturers makes them heavier with cone so heavy it can barely move, as result sensitivity dropped to low 80 numbers. That sub will have very low RF and could dig deep, but the rest of the spectrum would be non existing. 
That Pioneer has sensitivity of 105DB and tested to be true.
Cone is light for a sub and in IB it should not have a problem going down to 20HZ
In right box it certainly does.


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

What boxes have you built for it Victor? I know you said ported and t-line but what size ported are we talking? 

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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

street.terror said:


> What boxes have you built for it Victor? I know you said ported and t-line but what size ported are we talking?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


I`ll look for Bass box pro file to give you exact measurements, 1.8 f3 and 24HZ tuned port if I remember correctly.
I build boxes with tunable port and tune to car it goes into. 

Will try IB next time for the hell of it.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Looks decent for ib to me. Need to get bayboy in here did his opinion


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

jamesjones said:


> Agreed. I love mine in 1.2 cft and another guy here was claiming they work even better in .8 cft.


That was me. and that was the only way we could get them sd312 to perform best. We tried all different types of enclosures but a small .8 truck box was the ticket. That was just below .8 after sub displacement.


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> I`ll look for Bass box pro file to give you exact measurements, 1.8 f3 and 24HZ tuned port if I remember correctly.
> I build boxes with tunable port and tune to car it goes into.
> 
> Will try IB next time for the hell of it.


I would have ran it through WINISD but could find enough parameters to have a decent go. 

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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

What is louder between these Sundown SD3 subs and ID IDQv4? I'm looking to add a 12" sub in the passenger footwell.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

The ID by far.


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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

SPAZ said:


> What is louder between these Sundown SD3 subs and ID IDQv4? I'm looking to add a 12" sub in the passenger footwell.


Sealed the SD3, ported the IDQ IMHO.


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## willtel (Dec 18, 2008)

My SD3 10 should be showing up later this week.

The Sundown website suggests a 0.5 ft^3 box for a sealed enclosure. Should I go bigger if possible? It will be in a 1985 Toyota extended cab pickup so the cabin is fairly small.


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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

willtel said:


> My SD3 10 should be showing up later this week.
> 
> The Sundown website suggests a 0.5 ft^3 box for a sealed enclosure. Should I go bigger if possible? It will be in a 1985 Toyota extended cab pickup so the cabin is fairly small.


Some people are suggesting somewhat smaller is better so .5 should be fine.

This is where I put the SD-2 8" (similar style sub) I had in my '91 Toyota...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...991-toyota-extracab-pickup-budget-system.html

A 10 could probably fit in the same space.


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## masoman95 (Feb 17, 2017)

JL W0 for a budget or W3 if you want more power, can handle 500watts and punches hard in a sealed box and loud in ported, has great sound quality


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Used JBL W12 GTI's aren't that badly priced - those sound awesome.... but a powerful amp is also needed 


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## DMW1776 (Sep 20, 2017)

Victor_inox said:


> there is constant limitation on room available for sub install.
> manufacturers makes them heavier with cone so heavy it can barely move, as result sensitivity dropped to low 80 numbers. That sub will have very low RF and could dig deep, but the rest of the spectrum would be non existing.
> That Pioneer has sensitivity of 105DB and tested to be true.
> Cone is light for a sub and in IB it should not have a problem going down to 20HZ
> In right box it certainly does.


I just ordered two of the Pioneer TS‑W1200PRO and hoping for good results in rock, metal, Pink Floyd, etc. I noticed they were recommended for sealed enclosures but you are running ported, T-line. My hope and expectation is a tight linear controlled response with some authority in the kick drum section. You have any tips or suggestions on enclosures for two of these behind the bucket seats of a 97 f-250 single cab?

Im not expecting window flexing sub bass that I believe most here that didn't like these subs were expecting to get. I have had those systems metering a 154.9DB @34hz. (Definitely not anything groundbreaking but decent for a work truck I guess.) Reason I say this is just for reference. I have had and been in competition SPL vehicles and one or two SQ vehicles so I know the difference between a sub musically reproducing bass down to 30hz and a sub with 20mm+ of XMAX flexing reinforced panels at 30hz and below. I am looking for clear responsive bass reproduction for a daily SQ'ish type build. Being able to play classical music with clarity and precision and also having a decent kick to the chest from double kick drums is ultimately what I am hoping to achieve here with the pioneer.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Ahhh Victor, I kind of miss you. By kind of I mean not at all.


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

This whole thread is a sh*t show. Basically people thinking midbass is sub bass...(vic) and people that chase midbass think subwoofers are the answer. 

The people who like the pioneers basically want 40hz and higher response out of their subs because all their music doesn't have any information down low. 

The people who actually want sub-bass need subs that can play 20 to 70hz why? because they actually listen to music that reaches that deep.

Box design plays a factor but that pioneer subwoofer is a pure PA sub meaning its not gonna play anything down low. Think rock concert subwoofers, they thump but will never play a mean 30hz growl. 

to some people actually hearing the music the way its meant to be heard is SQ which means proper midbass AND sub bass.

However for some they think sub bass is muddy and boomy so they opt for NOT a linear response, its actually a much more skewed response peaking in the 40hz high up into the midbass range rather than a flat response purely due to their music.

In the end, sound quality is subjective, dont even bring that term up. Just tell us what your goal frequency response, and output levels are and that will help much more to recommend a proper sub than saying "SQ"


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

all of you do yourself a favor, download audacity, analyze all your music with the spectrum analyzer and see where you music peaks and what kind of bass information you have and you'll see where most of your bass needs fall into. Afterwards design a box with the goal target frequency response in mind and keep in mind of your vehicle peak resonant frequency, optimal loading, possible group delay or phase issues, and build the box with all that in mind and you'll have your perfect "SQ" subwoofer setup that does everything you want. 

All these aspects of the install is often overlooked on this forum, I only see guys buy a sub and stick it in a sealed box and criticize the sub when they have no clue what their vehicle acoustics are like and how to optimally setup their sub stage.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Jeffdachefz said:


> This whole thread is a sh*t show. Basically people thinking midbass is sub bass...(vic) and people that chase midbass think subwoofers are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is why I like the JBL GTI subs - they play down to 20hz , can give a good thump if required and still plays both SQ and SPL or SQL applications - a good all round sub... 


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## DMW1776 (Sep 20, 2017)

Jeffdachefz said:


> This whole thread is a sh*t show. Basically people thinking midbass is sub bass...(vic) and people that chase midbass think subwoofers are the answer.
> 
> The people who like the pioneers basically want 40hz and higher response out of their subs because all their music doesn't have any information down low.
> 
> ...


SQ is indeed a matter of opinion but to most in the audio hobby there is a clear distinction between loud and clear, loud, and SQ. The latter being proper imaging, time alignments and accurately reproducing the track of choice as it was recorded. You can clearly hear a difference in a properly tuned system with drivers and equipment that will reproduce every recorded sound of a track that most systems clearly wash out or simply don't reproduce at all. To some who compete, SQ is simply a flat line on the RTA. 

The Pioneer's should have no trouble playing into the 30's. They won't do it the same as Sundown Team in the same size but they will have a more transient response from the 30's to the 80's at moderate levels for a wide range of genres. There are a ton of factors that will determine how any sub will sound in a particular installation from the enclosure, dampening, and vehicle resonant frequency to the equipment driving them.


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

in a sealed box those pioneers die out way too fast under 40-50hz sorry to say they are anything but flat. The frequency response is not a flat line with those subs at all in a sealed alignment. Even in a fully deadened vehicle and the 50hz is 12 db higher than 30hz that we measured. Only way we got it playing much flatter was in a 1.75 cubic feet enclosure tuned to 29hz which allowed it to still reach the same bandwidth with the upper bass range but was much flatter down to the 30hz range with 1-2 db variance between 30hz and 50hz vs 12 db with sealed. While other subwoofer drivers play much flatter in a sealed alignment that most of the guys on here prefer.... Like for instance the IDQ


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## DMW1776 (Sep 20, 2017)

I have room for just over a 3 cu ft enclosure in my work truck behind the seat but the biggest restriction is the depth followed by power, which is the reason I decided to try out the Pioneer's. Im not wanting to put high amp alternators and a full bank of batteries in this truck so I am trying to limit my total system power to about 2k or so. Roughly 1.5k on the subs and 500 or so on the front stage 3-way. Will be mostly rock and metal type of music so hopefully these will work out for my need on this one.


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## FastEddie313 (Jul 9, 2017)

Elektra said:


> Used JBL W12 GTI's aren't that badly priced - those sound awesome.... but a powerful amp is also needed
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just bought one. Though it is mint I think I paid quite a bit for it...

What do you guys figure is "not badly priced" for these subs these days? 

My god is it a gorgeous sub.. I will hear it for the first time here withing the next couple days if I'm lucky..


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Just do yourself a favor and don't play that game after you already got it in the mail. Just enjoy it


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## FastEddie313 (Jul 9, 2017)

Well the thing Is I might want to buy another one.. 

I am still debating..
I have room for 1 in a proper sized ported box or 2 in a sealed box or an undersized ported box.. Room for about a 2.5 ft3 box.. 

I couldn't have paid more than $100 too much so it's not like it's a big deal. I had to grab what I could get because I'll wait another 3 weeks before I can get back to my car again so needed one NOW.. 

Somehow I'm doubting 1 will be enough but don't know what 1 in a good ported box would be like compared to 2 in a smallish sealed box..

What do you think? 

If the 1 in a ported box @ 1000-1350 RMS keeps up with my old pair of p3 12's I'll be satisfied..


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Idk I'm a pa woofer listener and one 15 ib on 600 watts is good enough for me. I don't mind a sub more focused on the lows but it leads to trashing the **** out of the car and chasing rattles for the rest of my life. And ****ting the car out. Not my favorite


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

FastEddie313 said:


> I just bought one. Though it is mint I think I paid quite a bit for it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dunno about $350? They great because they can be installed in sealed, ported and IB and they sound great when fed about 700+ rms 

I installed mine in a 45lt sealed enclosure with about 70% fill...


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