# This is how I like to give audio demos



## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

I put a lot of effort into making the demonstration of a sound system an experience. This is a skill that some people have not seen done well, especially if their "benchmark" for a system demo is what the guy at the local stereo store does. The one and only goal is to allow the listener to enjoy. Anything else that gets in the way of this should be minimized (including influences and preconceptions of any kind).

Before listening, ask them what music they like or if they have ever played an instrument. Make damn sure you don't start off by playing your favorite rap music if they played violin for a decade. Absolutely invite them to bring their own music to listen to. If they have no preference and want to listen to "what you think sounds good" then I have two discs labeled "vocals" and "instruments" and let them choose one. Pay super careful attention to anything you may have discussed with them earlier in the day that can hint which tracks they might enjoy (such as they wanted to learn more about depth in recordings, so play a track with lots of depth). Do not explain anything about the music that will be playing before they have a change to hear it at least once. If you tell them "this track has such an such and depth and etc" then they will hear it, weather they actually do or not.

DO NOT discuss any technical aspects of the system before listening. DO NOT share what equipment you have installed or where. Do this only after they are done listening and have expressed their thoughts otherwise this only reinforces whatever preconceived bias they may have and _you rob them of the chance to learn something new_. I cannot emphasize this enough!

For example I once had a self-proclaimed tweeter aficionado listen to my car without sharing that I was using wideband speakers and no tweeters. He thought my tweeters were wonderful. Since he didn't start with a preconception, he had a chance to learn something about his tweeter passion.

Make sure they are in the best listening position. Take a moment to adjust the seat if you need to and share if their head should be against the headrest, etc. This shows you care, and they will ultimately have a better experience.

Before the music starts playing, make it clear they are in control of the volume, music selection, and time. If there are any limitations on volume or time then mention them, or specifically mention there are no limits. Before the first song is played, adjust the volume to be very quiet so they are forced to change it to a level *they want* instead of suggesting they listen at a level you think is best. Most people are considerate and won't listen at a loud level if they want to while someone else is nearby. If they ever seem hesitant, encourage them to turn it up.

When they are listening, do not talk, do not offer comments on things, do not distract them. It might seem a bit overkill, but I treat this like when someone who is crying wants a hug. You let them decide how long that hug will last and you never let go first. This is their experience and you should not interrupt it.

If you need to leave for whatever reason, insist that they stay and continue listening. They are welcome in your home, and they need to know that. If you need to start the engine to recharge the battery, insist that they return later and make sure to chase them down later to continue the demo.

If your system has an obvious limitation such as rattles in the doors or a something is malfunctioning, mention it. Maybe before the music plays, maybe after.

When all done, thank them for their time and their interest in furthering this hobby. At this moment you are an acoustics ambassador and it is your job to foster the community and build it. If they are here with friends, insist their friends are welcome to listen too. Make sure everyone is offered a chance, even those who you don't think look interested. Your job at this moment is to get more people involved and share your passion for this thing.

If they have a system nearby, insist on listening to it. It is only fair, and if you have impressed them with your system then it will mean the world to them if you want to listen to their gear too. Before offering critiques or advice, make absolutely sure they want it. This goes for all demos.

---

I hope this is helpful. This is not the one and only best way to do things, but it's a collection of ideas that usually results in putting a smile on someone's face, and that's the goal afterall right?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Those are good points. This is something that has been discussed a bit among the fellas that come to the meets in this area. 

Kind of taking a step back.......to sit in the car or not when giving a demo of your own car......In the experience that I have had - this is the first and often hardest decision point of the demo. Sitting in my car for several hours and then sitting in others cars for several hours (especially if not hydrated - like most of the time) leads to feeling pretty wonky. I get to the point where I just want the demo to end because I feel lousy.

On the flip side......I have had some experiences where I wasn't familiar with the gear in someone's car.......and ended up sitting in silence for awhile (Steve's car at Marv's BBQ with the Nak system, Listening to Bing's stock system instead of the aftermarket (awesome) system, not know how to turn on Chad's McIntosh HU.....then not knowing how to open the door (there was a button on the dash I think) to ask him how to turn on the system)......I'm sure no one else on DIYMA has had bonehead experiences like that, but just tossing someone the keys (especially someone new to car audio, and someone that may be a bit intimidated) can lead to either no demo or settings changed (especially when using the P99 for processing)......or worse case.....speakers blown. 

One more thing I'll mention (hate to step on your thread) - I find it more challenging when the person getting a demo in my car doesn't have their own music. If a demo is going to happen....it is me using my music.....then I'm in charge of the demo a lot of times - I end up stepping through the tracks on my meet disc.....if I do that, then I don't know when they are at a point where they just want to escape. Even though we mention it in the meet threads that they should arrive with some discs (and thumb drives these days).....many come empty handed. Even funnier.....if you have a DAP with a ton of music....and you ask, "so what is your favorite band - maybe I have it on this device' - um.....I don't know....just play whatever 

So, it would be interesting to get others ideas of what 'techniques' they use or what makes a good demo or a bad demo. I have a meet coming up in a couple weeks, and I'd like to get some ideas of what others do to provide that good experience. I think Jazzi has started this thread off with some really good info.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I generally hand them the keys, the remote and tell them to have some fun.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

bertholomey - You did it perfect with me. You said jump in it's all you. You stood there long enough to make sure I knew how to use the stereo. You asked what type of stuff I liked, suggested a couple on the disc and let me know you'll be close to the car if I had any questions. 

I have been to a ton of SPL competitions but last year was my first SQ anything and first get together. I was a little uncomfortable. Just allowing me to do what I do while giving me confidence in operating your system was the way to go. 

I would think someone new to car audio would rather have you sit in the vehicle with them but definitely keep quiet before and during. No comments, excuses, or explanations until the demo is over. Leave everything in the control of the listeners. Just be there as guidance.

I have since had demo's where the guy just ran his mouth (in a good way) the whole time and it took my focus away from the system.


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

That is basically how we were trained to sell at Magnolia. "The Art of the Demo", you essentially do everything you said. You want to find out what song or music is going to really stand out to them or something they've heard 100's of times and know very well. Then you point out specific things that they are going to hear and where they're going to be in the soundstage. Then we listen and you can see it in their face when they hear something they've never heard before in a song they thought they knew everything about. After that you confirm what they heard and explain that the reason they heard that is "whatever brand specific features are selling points". Then close the deal.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

bertholomey you're not stepping on my thread. I welcome all comments otherwise we would never learn from each other. 

Chefhow gets it! 

AyOne what you're describing is the "art of the sale" which is completely different. I've been given demos like that (especially in stores) where someone tells me what to listen for before I listen for the first time, which both ruins the surprise and also fills my mind with preconceptions so that I strain to hear that thing on purpose. I love to ask the person I am demoing for if they noticed this or that, but only after they listen at least once on their own.

It's like when I was a bicycle salesman and I would talk a out how well the frame would smooth out a bumpy road before the customer took it for a test ride. Sure enough, they would comment on the smoothness of the ride. By carefully hijacking the customer's thought process, a salesman can get a customer to focus on something specific to impress them and make the sale.

I fear that when we use this same tactic when giving demos of our systems, however unintentional, it has the same effect. It effects me like this anyways.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

chefhow said:


> I generally hand them the keys, the remote and tell them to have some fun.


This. Let them choose what they want to hear and just let them hear it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

sqnut said:


> This. Let them choose what they want to hear and just let them hear it.


x3.


Nearly every demo I give is "given" _without _me in the car. I will show the person the ropes (here's the USB cord if you want to use that, here's the CD eject button, here's the remote, etc). Then I get out and go talk to friends. On occasion I'll sit with the person who is demoing just because I don't feel like standing outside (especially if it's really cold). But for the most part, the person demoing the car is given free reign to rock out to whatever they like. 


The reason I 'give' my demos this way is because it's the way I prefer to demo a car. I always feel awkward when someone is sitting next to me waiting on my opinion of their system like Dug on Up. Literally, this is what I picture in those awkward situations:













It's hard for me to get in a comfortable state of mind like that. So I don't want to be that same kind of person just waiting for someone to say "oh, it sounds great". No. Listen, get comfy... spend 5 minutes, spend 40 minutes. Whatever. It's a demo, so if you want to hang out and listen to all your favorite tracks, knock yourself out. 

Not to mention that some cars are VERY sensitive to shotgun riders; especially those with kick or door mounted drivers that play higher frequencies. In these cases the sound is altered due to blocked speakers and altered radiation/reflection patterns. A _lot _of people tune their car with only them in it. What happens during a demo is they get in the passenger seat, completely changing the 'tune' and the listener isn't hearing what the owner spent hours the day before working on. It's still something to consider even for myself with dash/pillar mounted mids/tweeters and certainly a _strong _consideration for those with lower mounted speakers. I can say from experience when someone asks me to help them with a tune I typically ask the owner "do you plan to listen with only someone in the driver's seat?". If the answer is 'yes' I will have to get the owner of the car to stand outside and wait on me. Because with them riding shotgun, the results are indeed different, _especially _in the cases I mentioned. I can go over the tune with them at a different point but I can guarantee the sound won't be the same with them sitting in the car.



So that's all the before/during demo. How I react when the person gets finished with the demo varies on the listener's experience:

If the person demoing is someone like Howard or Jason above then I know they know what they're listening for and I trust that if they heard anything they didn't like or they want to discuss then they'll let me know. In these cases the feedback is usually short like "thanks for the demo" and if there's a problem or something they didn't like they let me know.
If I know the person is new to the hobby then I'll take time to talk to them about what they heard. Maybe explain the technical aspects of the system such as staging, imaging, tonality, etc. We may even get back in the car with some of their music or my music and walk through some things together. That way they leave informed; whether or not they liked my system from a subjective standpoint. At least they understand what the goal was/is.


Of course, this is all from the hobbyist perspective. If you're a salesman and trying to sell speakers then hanging out with your customer may be smart for a multitude of reasons (education, gear protection, etc). But since this is diyma, I'm taking this thread to be based on the former. 


Jason made a couple points so I'm gonna tack on to those below...


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Kind of taking a step back.......to sit in the car or not when giving a demo of your own car......In the experience that I have had - this is the first and often hardest decision point of the demo. Sitting in my car for several hours and then sitting in others cars for several hours (especially if not hydrated - like most of the time) leads to feeling pretty wonky. I get to the point where I just want the demo to end because I feel lousy.


Mine isn't so much hydration but more ear fatigue. I have had folks demo at really loud volumes for an extended period of time. I can't do that in others' cars. If I do, my ears start to feel clogged up and my head gets cloudy (sinus issues usually are the root cause). So I tend to either keep my demos somewhat brief by using only a few tracks I really am familiar with or I just don't get 'loud' that much. As an aside, I often used to consider 'loud' to be 'dynamic'. But the truth is a dynamic system should be dynamic at all volumes. Loud is like horsepower. Dynamic is like torque. 





bertholomey said:


> On the flip side......I have had some experiences where I wasn't familiar with the gear in someone's car.......and ended up sitting in silence for awhile (Steve's car at Marv's BBQ with the Nak system, Listening to Bing's stock system instead of the aftermarket (awesome) system, not know how to turn on Chad's McIntosh HU.....then not knowing how to open the door (there was a button on the dash I think) to ask him how to turn on the system)......I'm sure no one else on DIYMA has had bonehead experiences like that, but just tossing someone the keys (especially someone new to car audio, and someone that may be a bit intimidated) can lead to either no demo or settings changed (especially when using the P99 for processing)......or worse case.....speakers blown.



LOL! I can only imagine the way you felt having to fight your way out of Chad's truck. I've had something similar happen to me once where a guy had door poppers and I couldn't for the life of me figure out where the door opener was. 

And x2 on settings. If you have a setup that can somehow be changed by accident then it's prudent to check the settings after a demo is over. We both know people who have had their settings changed at Finals and didn't realize it. That's a downside to just handing over the keys but one that I'm fine with accepting; just gotta remember to check the basics on occasion. 





bertholomey said:


> One more thing I'll mention (hate to step on your thread) - I find it more challenging when the person getting a demo in my car doesn't have their own music. If a demo is going to happen....it is me using my music.....then I'm in charge of the demo a lot of times - I end up stepping through the tracks on my meet disc.....if I do that, then I don't know when they are at a point where they just want to escape. Even though we mention it in the meet threads that they should arrive with some discs (and thumb drives these days).....many come empty handed. *Even funnier.....if you have a DAP with a ton of music....and you ask, "so what is your favorite band - maybe I have it on this device' - um.....I don't know....just play whatever *


agreed entirely. 

The bolded part... totally agree. I usually say "okay, what are you going to listen to when you drive home today?"


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

ErinH said:


> Nearly every demo I give is "given" _without _me in the car. I will show the person the ropes (here's the USB cord if you want to use that, here's the CD eject button, here's the remote, etc). Then I get out and go talk to friends. On occasion I'll sit with the person who is demoing just because I don't feel like standing outside (especially if it's really cold). But for the most part, the person demoing the car is given free reign to rock out to whatever they like.
> 
> The reason I 'give' my demos this way is because it's the way I prefer to demo a car. I always feel awkward when someone is sitting next to me waiting on my opinion of their system like Dug on Up. Literally, this is what I picture in those awkward situations:
> 
> ...


Really good points Erin. I have gone back and forth about sitting in with the demo of my car, and having the owner of the car I'm demoing sit in. 

*Against:* everything Erin said......loud tracks all day giving / getting......that 'uncomfortable' feeling ........the 'expectation' of giving / getting 'praise' or 'critique'.......2 dudes sitting in a car with the windows steaming up - 

*For:* One of my most enjoyable things about the music playback hobby (car audio, home audio) - is experiencing music - that is enhanced when you are sharing music with a friend who appreciates it. For me, giving demos (or playing my music in their car) - I enjoy the reactions when someone hears music they have never heard before and really dig. But.....this one thing probably shouldn't override all of the things listed above by Erin - especially altering the sound of the car if blocking speakers. 

Now - if I meet up in Hickory with a friend like Babs - we are going to sit in the car while giving the demo - for me, this is a little different demo than at a comp or at a meet. 

Good points Erin about 'the FEEDBACK'........

Some get out of the car and say, "Sounds like a stereo" (Mic )......."Sounds good"......."Trash the tune and start over", etc. Others feel the need to point out every single negative thing they heard - even if they don't know the person whose car they demoed from Adam. 

It can get interesting. I typically give some positive comments after hearing someone's car......if they press me for the 'bad stuff', I may provide a few things that I heard. What is funny about that....you say, "Sounds good - very entertaining - thank you for the demo".....later in the day, a few people ripped the car to pieces in their critique.....then it comes back, Jason didn't mention any of those things - he must not have heard them......then the ego needs to be checked (mine). 

My main goal when I get into someone's car - enjoying my music - hoping for a fun experience - not an uncomfortable experience, not a threatening experience, not a stressful experience. So, I'm not typically listening with a score sheet in my hand or in my head.....'am I having a good time while listening to this car?' - that is the kind of feedback I give I'm asked by the owner of the car. Anyway - I'm done rambling now.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Reading all of this I am going to feel under some pressure at the next meet I attend! In all honesty, this is good reading. I have a ton of music on my flash drive, covering most genres, so it can be tough picking things to demo. I am hoping to pick up a spare drive and copy a dozen or so songs I like onto it that I can plug in and use when demoing others vehicle. I do though genuinely like when people play what they like, as often times it is something new to me.

Sometimes as someone fairly new to listening to other peoples vehicle as well, I find it tough to give much of an opinion outside of basic comments. It's very impressive to me how some of you can get in a vehicle, listen, then give feedback such as "2500k is a little high, pulls to the left slightly" Hopefully one day I get to that point, but even if not I just have a blast hanging with like minded individuals who sit alone in their car, in the garage, in the cold, trying to determine if that vocal is just right or not.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

naiku said:


> Reading all of this I am going to feel under some pressure at the next meet I attend! In all honesty, this is good reading. I have a ton of music on my flash drive, covering most genres, so it can be tough picking things to demo. I am hoping to pick up a spare drive and copy a dozen or so songs I like onto it that I can plug in and use when demoing others vehicle. I do though genuinely like when people play what they like, as often times it is something new to me.
> 
> Sometimes as someone fairly new to listening to other peoples vehicle as well, I find it tough to give much of an opinion outside of basic comments. It's very impressive to me how some of you can get in a vehicle, listen, then give feedback such as "2500k is a little high, pulls to the left slightly" Hopefully one day I get to that point, but even if not I just have a blast hanging with like minded individuals who sit alone in their car, in the garage, in the cold, trying to determine if that vocal is just right or not.


Glad you posted Ian......your car the last time I heard it is an example of some of the 'obstacles' that have to be overcome demoing a vehicle......let me explain.....the chances of getting in to a vehicle that has a CD player, amps, and speakers are getting few and far between. Many cars these days have internal storage devices (Audison Bit Drive for example) or external hard drives or Car PC's. Many now do not have a CD transport........or even a USB port for a thumb drive (fairly rare I would think). So, getting a demo in those cars - you will need to pick out something you are familiar with on their drive......at their bit rate. I try to keep in mind the purpose - have fun - pick something and go with it. Although - looking at a list of artists can be like when we used to go into a 'Video Store' - rows and rows and can't think of a single thing you want to watch. 

One other thing that occurred to me. Sometimes when I get into someones car to demo (and they are going to sit in with me).....I'll ask them if they have a few tracks that really 'highlights' their system - before I put in my 'demo disc'. Sometimes that really engages them.....they get to 'show off' their system a little bit. Sometimes, that can bite you in the ass ........When 'The Jesus' shows you how he can get all of the panels in his car to flex with one Sundown sub :laugh::blush:


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> One other thing that occurred to me. Sometimes when I get into someones car to demo (and they are going to sit in with me).....I'll ask them if they have a few tracks that really 'highlights' their system - before I put in my 'demo disc'. Sometimes that really engages them.....they get to 'show off' their system a little bit. Sometimes, that can bite you in the ass ........When 'The Jesus' shows you how he can get all of the panels in his car to flex with one Sundown sub :laugh::blush:


Yours and Ian's post reminded me of this...

The music I select when I'm demoing someone else's car is really only important as far as the purpose of the demo. For example, if I'm just jumping in a car to listen to some tunes and not necessarily to provide feedback then my state of mind is a bit different and I don't really need a pre-determined set of tunes. So the owner is fine to play whatever they want; in these cases it's no more serious than me riding shotgun in a buddy's car headed to grab lunch. But if I'm requested to give feedback (or if I know the owner would appreciate it) then the music I demo with needs to be something I'm familiar with so I have a better baseline to draw from. 

Now, if someone else is demoing my car I would much rather them listen to something they know/like rather than me trying to guess at what they might like or try to impress them with my own selection of tunes. That just seems way too "me, me, me" and that's not the purpose of demos, for me. Sure, it's great to get good feedback on something you've worked hard on but I get the most enjoyment by simply providing another 'option' for others to listen to and help them round out their own systems based on their experiences from demos. Some people take a little of Jason's car, Ian's, Mine, Justin's, etc... they may not want exactly what someone else has. But if we can share what we have and explain how we got there, that can help others/ourselves maybe get closer to what we are after (or in some cases, be more content with what we already have given tradeoffs).


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Jazzi said:


> bertholomey you're not stepping on my thread. I welcome all comments otherwise we would never learn from each other.
> 
> Chefhow gets it!
> 
> ...


I must have misread your post a little then. Either way I still agree with you, "the predict" you give the 'customer' are also there since the general public doesn't even know what a soundstage is. Giving someone a demo at a show would be different to since your not necessarily trying to sell something. Your post just reminded me a lot of that training.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I've gotten to where I just get someone started and let them have at it. We all have different ideas of what "loud" is so telling people the max number is the way to go, and it's a good idea to keep gains where max clean volume on the knob is as loud as you want to go anyway. I'm going to echo Erin and Bertholomy. Having someone else in the car is distracting when I'm getting a demo and I hate it when I'm the one in the passenger seat controlling the demo. I'm also a short stocky guy that's built like a bulldog. I tune with the passenger seat empty and am pretty sure my 250lb tail throws things off. I don't care how long someone stays in and rocks out. If they spend a while in there I know they're liking what they hear...or compiling a long list of what's wrong, lol. My ears are used to my factory system faded all the way to the front with a center channel. I fully expect for people at the NCSQ meet to be totally honest with what's wrong and can be fixed without taking away from the stealth approach I insist on keeping. This means NO PILLAR PODS. Just carefully selected drivers in stock locations with an rta tune to get the left and right near mirror images of each other.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

This was a brilliant post!!!! I hope that everyone reads this as it is perfectly on point with how a demo should be conducted. Hopefully I'll run in to you at a show this year and get a chance to enjoy your setup.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> This was a brilliant post!!!! I hope that everyone reads this as it is perfectly on point with how a demo should be conducted. Hopefully I'll run in to you at a show this year and get a chance to enjoy your setup.




Dude!!! Good to have you back, Zach!


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

ErinH said:


> Dude!!! Good to have you back, Zach!



THIS!!!!!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

ErinH said:


> Dude!!! Good to have you back, Zach!





chefhow said:


> THIS!!!!!


Thanks guys! It's good to be back.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I totally agree with Howard, Erin and Arun. When I "give" a demo, I typically give the person the keys, have them get in the car, make sure they are ok with operating the system and then let them listen alone for as long as they want. I don't want to be a distraction in the vehicle, or inhibit them from playing the system at the volume and pace(how long of a demo, each track, skipping through etc) that they are most comfortable with. 
I typically say to turn it up as loud as they usually listen to for their reference as they won't hurt anything. 

Now when I am "receiving" a demo in a vehicle, I almost always prefer to demo it alone. For several reasons...
First, I like to skip through tracks, hearing portions of tracks and listening for specific things. I like certain volume levels to get the most dynamic sound I am comfortable with. I also like to listen with my eyes closed sometimes and with no distraction. When I have someone accompanying me, that detracts from the focus on the sound.

Now there are some exceptions... If it is a vehicle that I am intimately familiar with and I am listening with the owner for specific things and discussing along the way- absolutely. I typically demo Jason's BRZ with him inside for these very reasons. 
If it's a first time demo though, I prefer to go it alone, and I assume that those wanting to demo my car prefer the same so that's the route I typically take.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I've gotten to where I just get someone started and let them have at it. We all have different ideas of what "loud" is so telling people the max number is the way to go, and it's a good idea to keep gains where max clean volume on the knob is as loud as you want to go anyway. I'm going to echo Erin and Bertholomy. Having someone else in the car is distracting when I'm getting a demo and I hate it when I'm the one in the passenger seat controlling the demo. I'm also a short stocky guy that's built like a bulldog. I tune with the passenger seat empty and am pretty sure my 250lb tail throws things off. I don't care how long someone stays in and rocks out. If they spend a while in there I know they're liking what they hear...or compiling a long list of what's wrong, lol. My ears are used to my factory system faded all the way to the front with a center channel. I fully expect for people at the NCSQ meet to be totally honest with what's wrong and can be fixed without taking away from the stealth approach I insist on keeping. This means NO PILLAR PODS. Just carefully selected drivers in stock locations with an rta tune to get the left and right near mirror images of each other.



I just recently did a full tune on a BMW X3 using factory locations which had midbasses under the seat, midrange in mid door and tweeters in the upper door (not the sail panel...lower). 
It ended up being very tonally pleasing and soundstage was very good overall, albeit a little height limited. It all depends on the individual vehicle and drivers/philosophy used, but you can get very very good sound from stock locations.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

What a fun topic.!! Let me preface my response by saying my job as a Tennis Professional is to disect and analyze things and find ways to improve it. I'm very good at my job. I am not allowed to watch tennis related movies and I rarely watch tennis at home bc I can not turn my brain off and I often start yelling at the TV. Switch this to autosound, I have spent years as a judge for SLAP, Iasca and Meca and was Meca Sq judge of the year, also judged for Usaci Japan finals. I'm not saying this to brag but to point out that once again my job is to find flaws in a system. It's often very difficult for me to demo systems without going into judge mode and trying to figure out what's going on and why. 
Instead of listening to music I start hearing frequencis and listening becomes a mechanical process....happens when I go to concerts too. If something sounds off I'll start picking it apart and it actually takes away from my enjoyment. I just saw Martina McBride at Dpac and all the opening acts had to perform with the sound settings for Martina...so there was a peak around 160hz and around 4 or 5k that drove me insane. Martina doesn't typically sing in the upper range do with those settings those peaks arent there. 

2nd part is I enjoy helping people. Again that's my job. I have people pay me to help them get better. So if something sounds off I immediately want to figure out what's going on and to find a way to help.

Add in the fact that I suffer from a debilitating condition called Resting ***** Face (yes it affects men too not just women ) and alot of times I can come off as being a dick or an *******. Most of the time that isn't the intent 

Back on topic...I like to demo like I judge. I want the basic info _ is the seat where u want it? How do I control volume and tracking? If I need to turn it off and on, what do I need to know? Are there volume limitations?
After that give me time to run thru my music. Then just let me know how much info you REALLY want to know. If u want me to confirm something u are hearing ,cool. If u want a full blown critique just be ready to handle it and not be butt hurt, just keep in mind I've heard and judged world champion vehicles from around the world. 

Trust me it's equally awkward for me as it is for you if something is really off and I don't want to finish listening. I've sat in cars before just checking text messages or messaging people about what they heard just to make it seem like I spent equal time in a car.

When I demo my own car...the few times I do, please bring your own music. Others have said this but it's so important they u bring music u know. If u want to hear something, bring it. Please remember it's not your car so be respectful of getting in and out of the car. Be respectful of the volume. A great Sq car should be able to get loud but that doesn't mean every track should be played at 120db. . At that volume you're actually missing alot of details and nuances of the music.
If u want to provide feedback please be specific, what did u hear, what track was it, where in the track track did this occur, what volume were u listening? For example when I was listening to this Diana krall track there is a stand up bass on the far left but there seemed to be some frequency dependent wandering so it seemed more center than left. Please don't get out and just say I didn't like it or sounds good.
I can learn from everyone and inexperienced listeners can be invaluable bc they are just listening to the music and can hear things maybe I missed or overlooked in tuning bc I was focusing on something else

Biggest thing is be respectful. Everyone starts somewhere. These systems are people hard work


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## justgotone (Jun 12, 2014)

Thank you to everyone who posted their comments! I'm the new kid on the block when it comes to IASCA and MECA. Still using OEM 6 disc player with only a horrible aux input, I'll make sure to have an assortment of genre (which I usually do anyway) for anyone who wants to demo that doesn't have their own tunes. At my first event last year it pretty much went the way some of you explained.. Guys let me demo their systems, (I only listened to what they had playing). A few guys checked out mine and gave me feedback on what they thought, some had their own music and some didn't. Looking forward to the first comp in Chantilly, VA in April. I made some changes since last year and I'm anxious to see how I measure up. (comparing to myself from last year)


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## decibelle (Feb 17, 2011)

bertholomey said:


> 2 dudes sitting in a car with the windows steaming up -


You have no idea. 


Banking off what Mic said - I guess I don't understand the reluctance to give actual feedback. Is that not what we are here for, to learn and improve? Criticism and tact aren't mutually exclusive. I prefer being upfront about what I hear, and I expect the same in return. What's done with that information is up to them. 

Anyway, good points here otherwise.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

People are so exited when they jump in my car and start looking around with some modifications like i had in my TL. They enjoyed to see big screen and booty pop-ing when the video was playing, 
I decided i will bite the bullet and get spotify  things have changed and they could actually enjoy music, or I play flac files


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Wow, I didn't expect this to get so much attention. I love hearing how everyone approaches this. Thank you all for turning this into a fun discussion!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

decibelle said:


> You have no idea.
> 
> 
> Banking off what Mic said - I guess I don't understand the reluctance to give actual feedback. Is that not what we are here for, to learn and improve? Criticism and tact aren't mutually exclusive. I prefer being upfront about what I hear, and I expect the same in return. What's done with that information is up to them.
> ...


Lol, me and Steve about "sweated out" in my truck back in the Fall getting the bigger kinks worked out of the tune. Once he was done it was just a matter of getting an rta in there to pull out the smearing. I promptly ordered a usb mic when I got home and after I was done I wish I could have shared that tune with everyone. The stage was 3d and the imaging was like laser beams! Starting over from scratch with a sexy black Jeep named "Karma".

I think people are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that they hold back and only point out the good parts. People did that to me for years. How are we gonna learn if the flaws we missed or don't know how to fix aren't pointed out? Being specific and even thoughts on how to fix the problem goes a long way. This is why I feel like if you want someone to be brutally honest you need to let them know. Otherwise it will probably get the infamous "sounds good" and that's that.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Mic10is said:


> Add in the fact that I suffer from a debilitating condition called Resting ***** Face (yes it affects men too not just women ) and alot of times I can come off as being a dick or an *******. Most of the time that isn't the intent



PRICELESS


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## lowcel (Dec 28, 2014)

Jazzi, any suggestions for me on demoing since you were there for a demo with me in the vehicle and out of the vehicle? 

For someone with little experience with car audio I feel that it is best for me to be in the vehicle, especially since my system isn't overly simple. However, with someone that is more familiar with car audio I prefer to hand them the keys then spend a minute or two showing them how to use the iPad (Sony Music Center) to find songs that they enjoy. I have a demo flash drive with approximately 30 tracks of different music for them to listen to as well as the MECA and IASCA tracks. Once they feel comfortable I like to just leave them be and tell them to take as much time as they want. If they see the voltage get below 12 volts (which takes a very long time and many demos) I ask that they let me know.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

lowcel said:


> Jazzi, any suggestions for me on demoing since you were there for a demo with me in the vehicle and out of the vehicle?
> 
> For someone with little experience with car audio I feel that it is best for me to be in the vehicle, especially since my system isn't overly simple. However, with someone that is more familiar with car audio I prefer to hand them the keys then spend a minute or two showing them how to use the iPad (Sony Music Center) to find songs that they enjoy. I have a demo flash drive with approximately 30 tracks of different music for them to listen to as well as the MECA and IASCA tracks. Once they feel comfortable I like to just leave them be and tell them to take as much time as they want. If they see the voltage get below 12 volts (which takes a very long time and many demos) I ask that they let me know.


I think you did just fine! I enjoyed that you left me to listen at my leisure. My personal preference is to know as little as possible about the system before listening so I can approach it without any mental bias. But again, that's my personal preference and everyone is different, and I will often ask if someone wants to listen to my system first and learn about it afterwards to give them that option.

My only suggestion is to ditch the Sony head unit because literally nobody I know, especially the people who own one, enjoys using it. I despise the user interface in every iteration I've seen and it's fascinating to me that it is so widely popular despite being so difficult to actually use.
/rant


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## lowcel (Dec 28, 2014)

Jazzi said:


> I think you did just fine! I enjoyed that you left me to listen at my leisure. My personal preference is to know as little as possible about the system before listening so I can approach it without any mental bias. But again, that's my personal preference and everyone is different, and I will often ask if someone wants to listen to my system first and learn about it afterwards to give them that option.
> 
> My only suggestion is to ditch the Sony head unit because literally nobody I know, especially the people who own one, enjoys using it. I despise the user interface in every iteration I've seen and it's fascinating to me that it is so widely popular despite being so difficult to actually use.
> /rant


I really hope that Sony comes out with a decent app. $1,500 head unit, $400 ipad, app that makes the graphics on Pong look good.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Jazzi said:


> My only suggestion is to ditch the Sony head unit because literally nobody I know, especially the people who own one, enjoys using it. I despise the user interface in every iteration I've seen and it's fascinating to me that it is so widely popular despite being so difficult to actually use.
> /rant



Amen.


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## makinsparks (Feb 17, 2017)

Reading through this thread has raised a few questions from me. Hopefully I don't hijack or get too far off topic, I'll start new threads later for my other ???s.

I assume your "demos" are for competition? For guys new to the hobby, how do I go about finding systems to listen to? I'm not the kind of person to go to shops, waste their time when I'm not going to buy something. I doubt there are any sound events in my area (southern Idaho). I want to hear what real SQ sounds like. Are sound events/competitions a place where hobbyists can listen to someone's car, or is it strictly competition?

Occasionally, I get out to SoCal, Miami, and Chicago. Is there a list of events I could check for when I'm in the area?


Listening position: It sounds like there is a sweet spot for one listener, and the demos focus on the driver. Can you tune for both front seat listeners?

Tuning: For your demos, do you use a tune that sounds good for all music, or do you have different tunes for multiple genres of music?


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## lowcel (Dec 28, 2014)

makinsparks said:


> Reading through this thread has raised a few questions from me. Hopefully I don't hijack or get too far off topic, I'll start new threads later for my other ???s.
> 
> I assume your "demos" are for competition? For guys new to the hobby, how do I go about finding systems to listen to? I'm not the kind of person to go to shops, waste their time when I'm not going to buy something. I doubt there are any sound events in my area (southern Idaho). I want to hear what real SQ sounds like. Are sound events/competitions a place where hobbyists can listen to someone's car, or is it strictly competition?
> 
> ...


If you go to a show 95% of the competitors will be more than happy to give you a demo. Not only do we like to try to get more people into the hobby, we are also proud of what we have created and enjoy sharing. It's great giving a demo to someone that has never actually heard a real SQ system. This is especially true if someone is into home audio and has never heard a good car SQ system.

Some people compete two seat and have a tune for two seat. My car isn't one of them and I wouldn't know how to start.

My car as well as most SQ vehicles is setup to sound good with all music. Now, my idea of "good" and yours may be different. My idea of good is sounding exactly (or as close as possible) like the artists intended it to sound.

For events you can go to the MECA and IASCA websites to see what shows are going to be in the areas you will be in.


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