# Subs playing words with muffled sound! Help



## coolc4u

First and foremost, thanks for all the years of audio knowledge this site has provided me! I've been racking my brain over the last long couple of days over this situation. I have 2 12 subs and a toro r5 amp, and I'm getting words through the subs with muffled sounding bass. I have bought a new head unit, tried different rca's and other subs I had laying around. Still getting this funny sounding bass. It is almost like playing a big midrange. I also have tried my kicker key47 l.o.c straight from the radio, as well as the sub outs on the back of the radio. It just sounds weird no matter what I do. I have been in car audio for a while but this one got me stumped. Does anyone have any suggestions, or insight where to start?


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## dumdum

Try lowering the crossover settings for the subs

muffled sub bass is often down to very poor midbass, without that a sub won’t sound very good, not will it sound good without time alignment and phase being set well also and bad crossover integration


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## CCole

Lower your crossover point either at the radio or amp. But only 1 location. Start around 80.


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## coolc4u

I have tried lowering the crossover on the head unit and amp. Both at the same time and separate. 50hz on the head unit helped, but still sounded funny. It sounds like I'm playing a big midrange. The lower bass notes are lacking, but the higher bass notes are coming through. I have played with the subsonic filter as well. The subs are hitting hard, but sounds like muffled bass.


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## dumdum

Sounds like you are expecting way too much level from the subs without the rest of the system keeping up… but in reality it’s probably best to get someone listening to it instead of trying to describe what you think the subs sound like

do you have a dsp? Time alignment? Amps on other drivers? Where are other drivers fitted?

more to the point, what enclosure are the subs in?


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## coolc4u

Thanks, someone just suggested "On the amp, set the Subsonic 3/4 of the way. Set the LPF 1/4, and set the Q complete wide. Bass boost 0, FREQ 1/2". I will give it a shot. I have tried lowering just one, but didn't make a difference. I was wondering if something was wrong with the amp? It's brand new, only had it a week.


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## audiobaun

Are you sure that you are Placed on LPF and not Higher on the amplifier?? The Bass on HU Setting are on ?? What?? Sub setting on??Below 120HTZ as recommended and not on Through?


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## dumdum

coolc4u said:


> Thanks, someone just suggested "On the amp, set the Subsonic 3/4 of the way. Set the LPF 1/4, and set the Q complete wide. Bass boost 0, FREQ 1/2". I will give it a shot. I have tried lowering just one, but didn't make a difference. I was wondering if something was wrong with the amp? It's brand new, only had it a week.


Someone suggested settings without hearing your setup? Subsonic at 3/4 will cut the low end, you’re lacking that already so odd someone would suggest turning that to a higher freq… Q won’t make a difference as the bass eq is at 0, nor will freq either


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## audiobaun

PICS of Amplifier Settings and Wiring.. What subs? Model # and Brand? DVC2 ohm, DVC4 Ohm, SVC2, SVC4, SVC8, DVC1ohm? How many subs? 1,2,3,4,or more? How did you wire the subs?What Ohm load?


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## audiobaun

What Radio/HU?


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## coolc4u

audiobaun said:


> Are you sure that you are Placed on LPF and not Higher on the amplifier?? The Bass on HU Setting are on ?? What?? Sub setting on??Below 120HTZ as recommended and not on Through?


I'm on lpf on the amp, bass on the head unit is on 80 sub setting


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## coolc4u

audiobaun said:


> PICS of Amplifier Settings and Wiring.. What subs? Model # and Brand? DVC2 ohm, DVC4 Ohm, SVC2, SVC4, SVC8, DVC1ohm? How many subs? 1,2,3,4,or more? How did you wire the subs?What Ohm load?


Subs are 2 skar ddx dual 4 wired to 1 ohm, thanks for the fast reply and help. I had a dsp, just bought to try but unfortunately I sent it back yesterday. It still was the same result. I have a kicker47 loc (dsp ish) running them now.


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## CCole

Is there another menu to activate the sub filter or x-over on the radio? 80hz should net you zero voices unless it's a wierd slope


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## CCole

Are you hearing changes in the low frequency output when adjusting the crossover point in either location?


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## coolc4u

CCole said:


> Is there another menu to activate the sub filter or x-over on the radio? 80hz should net you zero voices unless it's a wierd slope


I will check that, just bought this unit yesterday. This is a second one I tried


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## coolc4u

CCole said:


> Are you hearing changes in the low frequency output when adjusting the crossover point in either location?


Now, that is what sounds like. On the head unit it changes, but the amp nets no change


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## coolc4u

audiobaun said:


> What Radio/HU?
> [/QUOTEKenwood DMX125


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## coolc4u

audiobaun said:


> What Radio/HU?


Kenwood DMX125


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## audiobaun

coolc4u said:


> Kenwood DMX125


This HU??








Kenwood DMX125BT


Digital multimedia receiver (does not play CDs)




www.crutchfield.com


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## gijoe

It almost sounds like you’re simply sending the wrong frequencies to the sub channel, but some photos of your settings could help. Never trust recommendations for setting things “3/4” or “1/2” that’s meaningless. Turn the subsonic all the way off, and set the LPF to 80hz.


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## coolc4u

audiobaun said:


> This HU??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kenwood DMX125BT
> 
> 
> Digital multimedia receiver (does not play CDs)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crutchfield.com


Yep, that's it


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## coolc4u

gijoe said:


> It almost sounds like you’re simply sending the wrong frequencies to the sub channel, but some photos of your settings could help. Never trust recommendations for setting things “3/4” or “1/2” that’s meaningless. Turn the subsonic all the way off, and set the LPF to 80hz.


I will try that, haven't tried without subsonic filter. It's dark here now, I will be back at it tomorrow. Report if it works, thanks


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## coolc4u

I did set everything with a DDM, even the crossover and subsonic filter. I will try to get pics as well


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## Thomasluke7899

Have you verified that you have not got your rcas switched up. Like the midbass into the sub input.


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## coolc4u

Thomasluke7899 said:


> Have you verified that you have not got your rcas switched up. Like the midbass into the sub input.


Yes, the sub output comes off the back of the radio. It's like the crossover on the amp isn't working or something.


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## coolc4u

This is what the amp looks like


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## DFS2020

Bass parametric settings all the way CCW, Subsonic take your tuning, half it, then half it again and minus that from tuning to get your setting,(for instance 40hz, 40/2=20/2=10 so 40-10=30, set subsonic at 30, in this case 12 o clock) LPF I would barely crack off 60Hz, maybe 9o clock. You mention a LOC as well as a headunit so which are you running?

Your amps crossover has the final say on frequencies and with using any preamp filtration(IE a DSP) before the amps preamp then you will need to open the amps crossovers to accept whatever frequencies you feed it from your other source.

You are under powering those subs, but what vehicle do you have and any electrical upgrades done?


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## coolc4u

DFS2020 said:


> Bass parametric settings all the way CCW, Subsonic take your tuning, half it, then half it again and minus that from tuning to get your setting,(for instance 40hz, 40/2=20/2=10 so 40-10=30, set subsonic at 30, in this case 12 o clock) LPF I would barely crack off 60Hz, maybe 9o clock. You mention a LOC as well as a headunit so which are you running?
> 
> Your amps crossover has the final say on frequencies and with using any preamp filtration(IE a DSP) before the amps preamp then you will need to open the amps crossovers to accept whatever frequencies you feed it from your other source.
> 
> You are under powering those subs, but what vehicle do you have and any electrical upgrades done?


I tried my kicker 47 key as a alternative when I developed the problem. I purchased a new head unit a couple days ago. I will try to change the slope on the head unit to see if that helps. I have the big three done and extra battery. It's going in a 07 cadillac cts. This car has been a pain for a install. They have so many integrations everywhere that you have to bypass.


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## coolc4u

Oh, I'm using a prefab just as a temporary solution until I can build a box. The box is turned to 32h. I set the subsonic at 24 using a DMM. I have other amps to try, may try to switch to see if it's the amp. All wires are done in zero gauge as well


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## DFS2020

The trunk design leaves a lot to desire as well (or was that a dts 😂) 

With the problem continuing across multiple sources i would suspect the amp and would try one in it's place. However if the source isn't sending those frequencies it isn't able to play those frequencies let alone supposed to be cut by the preamp crossover section as well 🤔. I don't know much about Toro, i have a R3 (that was blown i fixed and fried again, 100% user error both times) and seems like a well put together board especially that price point. Might have missed it but does the subs still hit hard?


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## coolc4u

DFS2020 said:


> The trunk design leaves a lot to desire as well (or was that a dts 😂)
> 
> With the problem continuing across multiple sources i would suspect the amp and would try one in it's place. However if the source isn't sending those frequencies it isn't able to play those frequencies let alone supposed to be cut by the preamp crossover section as well 🤔. I don't know much about Toro, i have a R3 (that was blown i fixed and fried again, 100% user error both times) and seems like a well put together board especially that price point. Might have missed it but does the subs still hit hard?


That's the crazy part. Subs hit hard as "hell", the problem is the lower frequency range along with the voices. Voices are not loud but you can hear them with seat down, and it's a small trunk for real. I have the bigger stuff in my srx. I spoke with Toro, they said "Amps are redesign to include zero inputs, and lesson the power rating not to cause confusion on power rating if it didn't hit all its ratings". He stated, "It does 2000 rms with good electrical and they are more efficient". I agree with efficient, because its not pulling current like that, and I think it's because lows are lacking.


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## DFS2020

So bass is solid, are you turning off all the other speakers to hear the sub play vocals? Not uncommon to hear vocals through a sub but certainly not over speakers designed to and getting the signal of the vocals.


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## coolc4u

DFS2020 said:


> So bass is solid, are you turning off all the other speakers to hear the sub play vocals? Not uncommon to hear vocals through a sub but certainly not over speakers designed to and getting the signal of the vocals.


Upper end bass frequency sound over powering, the lower end is where it's lacking. What frequency could I use to tone down the upper end bass notes on the head unit? I am listening without the 4 channel hooked up 😆. I have a jbl stadium 4 running mids and highs.


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## DoubleCrown

gijoe said:


> It almost sounds like you’re simply sending the wrong frequencies to the sub channel, but some photos of your settings could help. Never trust recommendations for setting things “3/4” or “1/2” that’s meaningless. Turn the subsonic all the way off, and set the LPF to 80hz.


You may be sending a "rear" signal rather than "sub" if you mixed up the RCA outputs from the headunit? Just troubleshooting here


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## DFS2020

now we are getting somewhere here. You said tuning is 34Hz? but using a premade? the skar center slot port? I just tuned one yesterday however I didn't get the dimensions to verify tuning. I wouldn't rule out the amp but I wouldn't worry about the vocals you are hearing. Again sorry if you mentioned but how do you have the box oriented in the trunk? try turning subsonic down even lower as well or just straight off BUT be careful the driver doesn't exceed mechanical xmax.


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## coolc4u

DFS2020 said:


> now we are getting somewhere here. You said tuning is 34Hz? but using a premade? the skar center slot port? I just tuned one yesterday however I didn't get the dimensions to verify tuning. I wouldn't rule out the amp but I wouldn't worry about the vocals you are hearing. Again sorry if you mentioned but how do you have the box oriented in the trunk? try turning subsonic down even lower as well or just straight off BUT be careful the driver doesn't exceed mechanical xmax.


It's like you reading my mind. My box is turned to 32hz. I was thinking about facing the box forward because of the trunk space, and maybe cancellation


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## coolc4u

I would like to say thanks to everyone for there suggestions and helpfulness. I tracked down the problem to the amp. I used a 3.5 to rca adapter in my phone, and the amp did the same no matter the adjustment.


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## DFS2020

coolc4u said:


> I would like to say thanks to everyone for there suggestions and helpfulness. I tracked down the problem to the amp. I used a 3.5 to rca adapter in my phone, and the amp did the same no matter the adjustment.


wonder if it is just a bad pot or what. where are you located or do you havea warranty on it yet?


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## coolc4u

DFS2020 said:


> wonder if it is just a bad pot or what. where are you located or do you havea warranty on it yet?


I'm in N.C. I had the amp for 2 weeks just got around to installing it. The power is there, it's just the words and muffled sound. I have reached out to them to see if we can resolve this matter


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## Pkane83

I hate using loc's never sounds right


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## coolc4u

Pkane83 said:


> I hate using loc's never sounds right


The Kicker 47 key loc is a dsp and rta in one. It makes a very big difference in sound quality. So much so, I have one installed to a aftermarket radio to use the built-in line driver part of the key.


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