# Do todays stock systems make you less motivated to upgrade?



## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

These days, stock systems are more integrated with the vehicle, making is more difficult and costly to move to an aftermarket HU. Stock systems sound much better than they did a decade ago.

How much do these facts influence you to want to upgrade?

Im not really referring to the basic bottom of the line vehicle with basic audio. Im talking about newer vehicles 05+


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

I think yes. The stock systems make me less motivated to upgrade. Let's get real. Today's stock system on a newer car, specially premium version, is not a 1990s factory stereo. Installing after market HU on a 1990 car was already a big upgrade because a 1990s car came with cassette player. You could also gain a lot with speaker upgrade, because factory speakers were crappy paper speakers.

Today things are different. Replacing head unit is almost out of question. The factory "head unit" may possibly integrate with the navi and phone and car functions. You want to keep the factory HU, but there are no preamp outs. So you have to use pretty much something like JBL MS-8. Add the amp and speaker that really improve upon the factory setup, and other things, and suddenly you have something like a $2000 to $3000 upgrade budget requirement. This will probably beat the SQ of factory sound system, but was it worth it? I think it will be worth it to me, but I suspect in near future, there will be less people tinkering with car stereos, and the market for aftermarket head units will slowly die out, with only 1990s and early 2000s car ownters being able to install them.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

The sophistication of OEM multimedia has certainly changed quite a bit in recent years, but as far as I'm concerned that only makes upgrading more interesting.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

ZAKOH said:


> I think yes. The stock systems make me less motivated to upgrade. Let's get real. Today's stock system on a newer car, specially premium version, is not a 1990s factory stereo. Installing after market HU on a 1990 car was already a big upgrade because a 1990s car came with cassette player. You could also gain a lot with speaker upgrade, because factory speakers were crappy paper speakers.
> 
> Today things are different. Replacing head unit is almost out of question. The factory "head unit" may possibly integrate with the navi and phone and car functions. You want to keep the factory HU, but there are no preamp outs. So you have to use pretty much something like JBL MS-8. Add the amp and speaker that really improve upon the factory setup, and other things, and suddenly you have something like a $2000 to $3000 upgrade budget requirement. This will probably beat the SQ of factory sound system, but was it worth it? I think it will be worth it to me, but I suspect in near future, there will be less people tinkering with car stereos, and the market for aftermarket head units will slowly die out, with only 1990s and early 2000s car ownters being able to install them.


I agree, which is pretty much why I asked the question. Right now, I drive an 04 Impala, which had an average stock system. After hearing some stock systems on newer cars, I started to wonder why anyone would want to invest the time and money to upgrade, when it already sounded pretty good....

EDIT: I just realized I should have put in some more poll options, but oh well.


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

tvrift said:


> These days, stock systems are more integrated with the vehicle, making is more difficult and costly to move to an aftermarket HU. Stock systems sound much better than they did a decade ago.
> *Some are lots better, some are just more of a PITA to sort*
> 
> How much do these facts influence you to want to upgrade?
> ...


My text in bold above^


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

People, the poll is private. You dont even have to comment, just vote honestly.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

I've never heard a stock system that I liked. Some are less bad than others. My G8 was AWFUL.


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## Tweeky (Mar 31, 2011)

There are a few OEM's that I've heard that I like a lot. The tonal quality is quite pleasing and at my age I rarely crank the volume like I used to.

My next car will have a premium OEM, and I'll probably just toy with my son's car when he turns 16. I may just add some bass-shakers to the OEM for that low subwoofer feel.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Chaos said:


> The sophistication of OEM multimedia has certainly changed quite a bit in recent years, but as far as I'm concerned that only makes upgrading more interesting.


Yes thats very true, Its very interesting, on the other hand, as for other cars, there is a company that makes wire harness that will have RCA outputs for amps. thats only if you go that route,

It will be more expensive to get anything installed, but at the same time, its better for the installer


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## basshead (Sep 12, 2008)

The only time i can enjoy music it's when i'm in the car, so yeah stock is not an option.

When i choose a car, its sound "upgradability" is in the list of important criteria.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

basshead said:


> The only time i can enjoy music it's when i'm in the car, so yeah stock is not an option.
> 
> When i choose a car, its sound "upgradability" is in the list of important criteria.


Same here. 

The big difference is that now I will at least consider integration with OEM systems as a viable option, rather than outright aftermarket replacement of every component in the car.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

imo if u pay for upgraded audio system ur wasting ur money. and for me i have nav outside of a built in nav hu, so i want bone stock crappy oem so i can just replace it. 

plus the cost of the upgraded audio system will probably cover all of my costs


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## USCG Charger (Apr 21, 2011)

I love me Chargers system


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

The true answer is "It depends!"

What if you purchase a vehicle that has an integrated factory HU that runs a proprietary SPDIF or TOSLINK cable directly to the factory amplifier? Furthermore, let's assume you can't replace the HU because your climate controls and other vital vehicle functions are integrated into it. Sounds like a challenging upgrade, yet that is the route that certain automakers are going.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

For me personally, the sound isn't even the end goal. I could have a perfect stereo and would still "upgrade" within a year or two. I just enjoy building and working on my car, fabricating, trying new things. 

It's a journey, not a destination. I can't get that with an OEM stereo.


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

with processors having speaker level inputs like the 3sixty, cleansweep, etc

it makes it easy to tap into your speaker wires

Most 2010+ cars have some kinda ipod capability and of course a CD player.

the sound is actually nice when using a good LOC.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Yes and no. I will not change out the headunit on all my new cars but I will replace the speakers and add amplifiers.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Today's factory installed options make OEM integration more fun!! Keep the new head unit with it's factory nav, Bluetooth, iPod and satellite radio and let me do speakers, amps, have the ability to tune it, and I'm happy. This, to me, is far more fun than just replacing the head unit and everything else.


Jacob Brown
Owner / (hdme)
505.750.8358
Sent from my iPhone


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## kkreit01 (Aug 27, 2009)

My current ride is the first system I will not touch: Lincoln THXII, 14 speakers, Nav, 10G HD, Sync, Sirius, 600w, 12 chn amp, etc. I would have to spend A LOT for it to sound better, and keep the same features. 

My other ride is Chrysler Alpine MyGIG, 6 speakers, 30G HD, 276w, etc. I like the HU. The front stage could use some help, and there's 0 sound dampening in the doors. 

OEs are making it more and more difficult to upgrade -- especially Ford.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

kkreit01 said:


> My current ride is the first system I will not touch: Lincoln THXII, 14 speakers, Nav, 10G HD, Sync, Sirius, 600w, 12 chn amp, etc. I would have to spend A LOT for it to sound better, and keep the same features.
> 
> My other ride is Chrysler Alpine MyGIG, 6 speakers, 30G HD, 276w, etc. I like the HU. The front stage could use some help, and there's 0 sound dampening in the doors.
> 
> OEs are making it more and more difficult to upgrade -- especially Ford.


That's exactly is. So long are the days of throwing in $100 Coaxials and a headunit and it sounding much better. Making your Lincoln sound better than it is now will cost at least 1-2k. Unfortunately with the economy the way it is most people aren't willing to spend that now.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Depends on the vehicle too...with my '08 Uplander van, all it would take to upgrade would be taking the factory speakers out of my old '84 Old Delta 88 to improve my van's setup lol...


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## bigted83 (Apr 12, 2011)

Yes, I currently drive a 2010 Camaro with the Boston acoustics stereo, to me its the best sounding OEM stereo I've heard, yeah sure its 9 speakers and only 245 watts but it sound great to me, the only thing I wanna add is a 10 inch sub, maybe 12 and it would be easy supposedly on that car, I'm just to cheap at the moment


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

cobb2819 said:


> Today's factory installed options make OEM integration more fun!! Keep the new head unit with it's factory nav, Bluetooth, iPod and satellite radio and let me do speakers, amps, have the ability to tune it, and I'm happy. This, to me, is far more fun than just replacing the head unit and everything else.


Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout.


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## coyote-1 (Nov 2, 2010)

The sound of the stock system in my Impreza is.... less than wonderful. And since it's not integrated into the car's other operations, I'm definitely motivated to upgrade.

My wife's new BMW 535i, otoh, sounds awesome. Very loud, very well-balanced across the entire volume range. It came with nav, sat, bluetooth, HDradio, and is completely integrated into the car's other operations. No way I'm gonna change anything in that system.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

I spent about $2000 on a moon roof, and a "super premium" sony sound system upgrade thinking that I wouldn't need to pull it all out. Well that lasted about a month.. I started nit picking the hell out of it. Time alignment was great from the factory.. but it was just annoying otherwise. So out it came. Ironically I put another $2000 into it for the system I have.. but it sounds sooo much better!


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## sjg5359 (Mar 29, 2011)

I can ususlaly live with it for a little while but then i always find a reason to upgrade.


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## lowblueranger (Feb 11, 2011)

The first thing I reseach about the new car I'm looking to get is -what's it going to take to put "my" stereo in it  
OEM can always be replaced by aftermarket- It's just a matter of how bad you want it.
I don't car about steering wheel controls, bluetooth, sync, navagation-I just go around all that stuff and hook it up!


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## necrophidious (Aug 14, 2007)

cobb2819 said:


> Today's factory installed options make OEM integration more fun!! Keep the new head unit with it's factory nav, Bluetooth, iPod and satellite radio and let me do speakers, amps, have the ability to tune it, and I'm happy. This, to me, is far more fun than just replacing the head unit and everything else.


x 2. I think this is definitely the route to go. As more and more vehicles require intergration, the market for intergation processors will grow as well, with cheaper and easier to use products.


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## magnumsrt806 (Apr 22, 2011)

The stock boston acoustic set in my mag was nice but there is always better when you go aftermarket that's why I went aftermarket


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## El Wray (Mar 2, 2011)

Depends on the car I guess. Even with today's "upgraded" (name brand) factory systems, they still have a way to go. 

Picked up my car two months ago ('09 STi) and the stock system 6 disc with ipod and 1/8" aux port still drove me nuts. Replaced it in less than 45 days. The '11 Lancer Evo MR I test drove just before buying my car had the Rockford package installed. I was semi impressed but probably would have eventually upgraded that thing, too.


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## duckman73 (Feb 27, 2011)

When I got my 06 grand prix 2 years ago I intended to eventually upgrade the speakers and amp, keeping the stock hu. It came off the transport with the oem HU "locked" WTF? A trip to the dealer (and $50 had I not known a tech there) and We had a functioning radio.(repeat this every dam time it loses power for an unknown length of time). REALLY? who the hell steals an oem hu? The cd player was dead to the world. I activated the xm and that lasted about 6 weeks before taking a dump. The system produced the chimes for the car and would randomly stay on sans display and drain the battery. I watched it do it with a meter- draws 2.5 amps, 2.0 with the monsoon amp unplugged. The system didn't sound too bad when parked but add road noise and then it dialed back the bass as volume increased. I finally pulled the fuse and drove in silence so the car would start when I go in it. Took right at 2k to get an alpine 505 p1 installed with all the bs adapters.
It still drains the battery randomly but much slower now, batteries last about 11 months, if anyone knows which GM "module" is doing this I'd really love to know.


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## gRock777 (Apr 23, 2011)

USCG Charger said:


> I love me Chargers system


 I love Chargers and I really want one, but one thing about them that turns me off is the fact that their head units, unless I'm mistaken, are video consoles! I realize they do the same thing, but I don't need all that extra functionality crap and in fact, would STRONGLY prefer to be without it and just have a nice standard head unit, even if it meant having a stock one. I need to figure out if Dodge could somehow de-integrate the screen unit and "normalize" things for me if I were to ever get a Charger.

In response to the actual point of this thread, I'd say it would depend on HOW good it already is and how much I would be willing to spend at the time. I would almost definitely add stuff, but potentially not actually swap anything out.


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## Onyx1607 (Apr 18, 2011)

It's just a shift in the components to upgrade. Those wanting to upgrade will find a way to do so - for better quality sound, or for the hobby of DIY'ing.

In earlier times headunits were standard DIN sized, which were portable and able to be taken with you to your next car. Howadays, the 'behind the scenes' upgrades to your integrated dash/console (to support the external processors, amps, etc) meant whatever upgrades you carried out would have to stay with the car.

However, I have felt that speaker makers are marketting their goods at the OEM upgraders moreso today than in the past. eg. a decade ago the mantra of upgrading one's car stereo was first to add external amps, and that extra power would do wonders to your aftermarket speakers. These days they're designing speakers to work with low powered OEM onboard amps, as it's about as far as most are willing to go in 'upgrading' their factory sound.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

No way I could ever run stock again. My ears are sensitive to phase issues to the point it feels like something's pulling on the roof of my mouth. The stock system in my Ram was so bad I listened to it for about 30 seconds before turning it off.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

The other day I was reading about $3 or $4 grand "audio navi" package for Lexus IS350. I looked up on lexus web site, and they claim it comes with 11 speaker system (yeah, they count tweeter, mids, etc as separate speaker), 3 way front stage, center channel, and the rest of surround sound goodies complete with an 300 watt rms amplifier and an 8 inch subwoofer. Say what you say, I haven't heard it yet, but to improve upon a system like this you would probably need to spend incredible amount of time and money to buy, install, and tune something like JBL MS-8, a couple of amplifiers, and speakers, and a sub... For me, DIY ends when I can afford a car like this. I might add a better subwoofer and sound deadening to it, but that would be it.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

^ or buy a car without that $5000 option and spend the $ saved for better quality equipment.


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

ZAKOH said:


> The other day I was reading about $3 or $4 grand "audio navi" package for Lexus IS350. I looked up on lexus web site, and they claim it comes with 11 speaker system (yeah, they count tweeter, mids, etc as separate speaker), 3 way front stage, center channel, and the rest of surround sound goodies complete with an 300 watt rms amplifier and an 8 inch subwoofer. Say what you say, I haven't heard it yet, but to improve upon a system like this you would probably need to spend incredible amount of time and money to buy, install, and tune something like JBL MS-8, a couple of amplifiers, and speakers, and a sub... For me, DIY ends when I can afford a car like this. I might add a better subwoofer and sound deadening to it, but that would be it.


If you buy the car without the package you can put in a REALLY nice set up for the same price, even if you paid someone to do it.

The problem is that if you want nav or a sun roof they are bundled in with other packages when you buy the car.

My wifes SUV didnt have a package that had heated seats unless you got a sunroof :surprised:

But you can also keep your nav and such by using a LOC or a nice processor that has speaker level inputs.

Ive done that in a few newer chevys, that way the customer didnt need to buy all the bypass modules and such.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

I knew I should of bought a Chevy Cruze!! According to MECA it's better than most aftermarket competition systems anyway.


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

depends on car. On the Honda Fit, they charge over a $2000 premium just for the Navi with steering controls. Problem is that most $799 aftermarket navi's have more features and functionality.
I plan to get the sport model, then just buy an aftermarket HU that i like, saves money but again, depends on car since upgrade packages are always different and combined differently. In those cases an MS-8 would be a worthy investment.

i do have to say though, that my wifes 2000 concord has an infinity OEM system that sounds pretty damn good and puts out some bass, enough to rattle stuff. At my work we have a 2007 dodge ram that has some impressive midbass


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## ALL4SPL (Sep 30, 2009)

Last year I bought a 2009 Honda Fit Sport, from the original owner. Factory radio made by alpine, speakers not sure who made by. However the headunit was ugly bulky and just plain, the speakers themselves are pathetic quality. I mean the motor on the midrange was sooo tiny and light I was in shock when I took them out. Granted the Fit is not a luxury car or a high dollar car brand new, but still.

I think my vote of "no i hate stock and will always upgrade" is pretty much gonna stick with me through the rest of my life. NO Stock system will EVER be good enough for me, period.


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## rytekproject (Feb 25, 2011)

Since I've always driven totoyas, stocks systems have to go


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## timaishu (Dec 14, 2008)

I thought the stock system in my 05 altima sounded pretty good, it didnt have bose. Just the regular stereo with the clarion speakers. I put my amp and subs in "just because", but didnt change the interior speakers for a good while.

I eventually pulled them and dropped in my comps and hu because I was tired of them sitting on my shelf.


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## jbreddawg (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm a semi old timer. I think after market stereos will be a thing of the past in a couple more decades. Why ? 
When I grew up, stock systems sucked ! Period ! The factory "upgrade" meant you get Fm as well as am and possibly a cassette player. The speakers were the tinyest of things made to cram into available spaces. 3 inch,4 inch,4x10's . If you got 6x9's you were rollin ! The factory didnt care about radio's, just selling cars.

We live in a different time now, the stock systems are getting better and better . I have heard some pretty damn impressive stock stuff but no,it still doesnt compare to a multi thousand dollar after market system.
But... it's coming down to, people dont HAVE to rip out every piece anymore to have a great sounding system. As in the other thread about "are we a dying breed ? " I think yes, the after market stereo as a whole is a dying breed. 
It's not going to go belly up tomorrow but I think just like phone booths and tube tv's it has seen it's rise and fall and eventual demise.


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## 96jimmyslt (Jan 31, 2011)

The newest car we have is an 05 envoy. It has the same basic GMC layout.

Not sure on the newer cars.

The 2010 dodge minivan we rented when moving sounded great with XM radio (I only listened to BPM though). It had all the 2-ways on the head unit, or so I think. It was really nice to listen to, but did not have very much treble. Maybe that was a good thing, I'm not sure.

As long as a system has decent bass and treble and lets me plug in a 3.5mm device, I don't mind. The 3.5mm function is the most important though.


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## PottersField (Mar 18, 2011)

The newest car I own right now is a 96 so not upgrading the head unit (I'm assuming that's the main focus here) is not an option. For my tastes, I like everything to look like it came from the factory and even if there are install kits available, adding an aftermarket head unit to most of today's vehicles just makes everything look tacky. If I had any of the newer cars, especially if it had a 3.5mm input, I'd rather attack everything downstream of the head unit. With products like the MiniDSP or MS-8 on the market I can't see much reason to install a head unit that looks worse than stock.


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## ALL4SPL (Sep 30, 2009)

Factory headunits are #1 over priced, #2 not the best looking imo, and #3 sound terrible even with additional amps and speakers. Example the factory Honda Fit Navigation radio is an additional $2500, I could build an entire system with that budget. And the components used in todays cars are terrible, here is a comparison of the factory honda fit speaker to an infinity.


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

to be fair one handles 75 watts and the other 10 watts but yeah, most OEM speakers are cheap and straight out of the 70's. Of course i'd do the same if i were to build cars. Doesnt matter what speakers you put in it, audiophiles will want to swap them out with something different or to their preference/bias no matter what and the average joe/jane doesnt care/know any different to feel they want to swap anyway.

Not all cars are that way though, my wife's OEM infinity system has some decent speakers that put out quite a bit of bass, i had to swap out one that went bad and used one of my aftermarket Memphis coax and it didnt sound any better than the others.


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## 96jimmyslt (Jan 31, 2011)

The 03 BMW 4 door my dad had a couple years ago had a decent harmon kardon system.

It probably had 100w subwoofer. It was acceptable for a stock system.

ALL4SPL: That's ridiculous for an aftermarket navigation unit...I bought my navi on CL for $300 used and it's working great. $700 new, still $1500+ left over compared to the honda one. 

But I think the main point is that it's factory, under warranty, and a selling feature. 

My dad is always going off about "Factory" installed equipment, and I've heard other non-DIY types "brag" about it.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

ALL4SPL said:


> Factory headunits are #1 over priced, #2 not the best looking imo, and #3 sound terrible even with additional amps and speakers. Example the factory Honda Fit Navigation radio is an additional $2500, I could build an entire system with that budget. And the components used in todays cars are terrible, here is a comparison of the factory honda fit speaker to an infinity.


You do realize that the reason those magnets are so much smaller and lighter is because Honda has taken to using Neodymium magnets, which have much more magnetic force with smaller size and weight than a conventional ferrite magnet? The neo magnets are actually a better style of magnet found on a lot of high dollar speakers...


As far as the original topic, it depends on the car. Some new stuff is just such a pain to work around its not worth it. Other times, high dollar cars have stereos that are just better than what you can do aftermarket without a LOT of money thrown at it anyways. I think it's likely that my next car will retain the factory HU, but have aftermarket amps and speakers. I think its a distinct possibility the car after that will stay stock, because the OEM stuff will be as good or better than aftermarket by then. If I bought a new Cayenne with the Burmeister system, or an XKR with the B&W system, I'd probably leave it. If it was a Ford Edge or something with the Sony system, I'd likely upgrade it.


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## ALL4SPL (Sep 30, 2009)

Yes I do realize the magnets are designed that way, but that didn't help them sound any better. They were terrible plain and simple, it's a known thing among Honda Fit owners, the factory stereo just stinks. Compared to my JBL C608GTI MKII's its like night and day. 

As far as factory radios go, just take a look at the sticker before you think you are getting the radio for cheap. Average I saw when looking at new cars last year was $750 for a am/fm cd player, most people just over look it because it's in an options package or a huge list of what is in the price of the car.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

And nobody really touched on the point I brought up. For me, it isn't just about having good sound. I like the process of researching, learning, working on the car, fabricating, etc. 

There's no fun to be had tinkering with a stock stereo. It's the same reason people still build DIY radios when the local walmart sells a FM radio for $5. Same reason people still build their own furniture... it's not like there isn't perfectly good stuff available at a reasonable price.


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## rytekproject (Feb 25, 2011)

bd5034 said:


> And nobody really touched on the point I brought up. For me, it isn't just about having good sound. I like the process of researching, learning, working on the car, fabricating, etc.
> 
> There's no fun to be had tinkering with a stock stereo. It's the same reason people still build DIY radios when the local walmart sells a FM radio for $5. Same reason people still build their own furniture... it's not like there isn't perfectly good stuff available at a reasonable price.


This is true and "good sound" is the end product we arrive at. The process, tuning and building with your own hands definitely enhances the journey. 
I know there are many on this forum that have excellent equipment but still like to change it up and try something new. Being a hobby, people will tear out a stock system even if it did sound good just to try to make it better. I probably would


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## Mark the Bold (May 28, 2010)

Hell. I almost buy a car JUST to put a new stereo in it. 

For the amount of time the average joe spends in his/her vehicle, I think an awesome car stereo is one the best purchases you'll ever make in your life. Second only to a good set of work boots....

It's funny; I know a guy who spent over 3 grand on a apex valve controller, a blow off valve and a kakimoto exhaust for his WRX. When asked if he was ever going to upgrade his stereo he said "it costs too much money". Seriously, I almost slapped him. Oh and he lives in West Hollywood too where he gets to use all that expensive HP maybe once a month in that police infested traffic party. Jeepers creepers.


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## takeabao (Jul 18, 2005)

I recently just bought a new 2011 Toyota Tundra and after reading DIYMA for HOURS, I've got the SQ itch again. (I am a LONG-time lurker on these forums)

However, with kids & their mom to feed I can't really justify spending gobs of $$$ to upgrade a stock system that, while mediocre, is completely tolerable. Besides, Miley Cyrus sounds the same on stock as it does over a set of Rainbow's...


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

Mark the Bold said:


> Hell. I almost buy a car JUST to put a new stereo in it.
> 
> For the amount of time the average joe spends in his/her vehicle, I think an awesome car stereo is one the best purchases you'll ever make in your life. Second only to a good set of work boots....


wow, you are a guru. I like car audio n all, but its probably 20th or so on my list of best purchases in life. Home theater comes way up higher on my list than something i make short trips in here to there. But to consider buying a new car just to put a stereo in, now that's hardcore audio gangsta.


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## jason19 (Jan 21, 2011)

for the price it costs to upgrade to a stock premium system your better off buying aftermarket


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## Mark the Bold (May 28, 2010)

SoulFly said:


> wow, you are a guru. I like car audio n all, but its probably 20th or so on my list of best purchases in life. Home theater comes way up higher on my list than something i make short trips in here to there. But to consider buying a new car just to put a stereo in, now that's hardcore audio gangsta.


wow, you have no sense of humor. 

I obviously have never bought a car just to put a new stereo in it. I was joking that when I am buying a new car, I am immediately thinking of where/how to put a new stereo in it.

Well whenever you get out of that 500 population town in rural Indiana, come and visit some of the metropolis's in the US to see just how much time you spend in your car in an average week when commuting to and for work / kids / wife stuff / various errands / etc. I spend WAY more time in my car in a week than watching TV. And I'm glad I do too. TV sucks.


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## Chsknight (Apr 10, 2011)

i think what is happening is that consumers what these super fancy factory headunits, and technology has advanced and gotten cheap enough to do so...all thats left is for us to change the speakers and add amps as car companys will always cheap out on these aspects. Remember though these tech packages themselves add around 2 grand to the sticker price


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

BowDown said:


> I spent about $2000 on a moon roof, and a "super premium" sony sound system upgrade thinking that I wouldn't need to pull it all out. Well that lasted about a month.. I started nit picking the hell out of it. Time alignment was great from the factory.. but it was just annoying otherwise. So out it came. Ironically I put another $2000 into it for the system I have.. but it sounds sooo much better!


^ Yup totally agree. I'd rather spend money on the "sport package" than on the "upgraded sound premium". 
#1 I know I will never be satisfied with OEM & 
#2 I will feel so pissed I spent so much for not being satisfied... 

Kelvin


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## stealthninja (Apr 26, 2011)

Im a tinker'er by nature but F man this 08 chevy cobalt is such a pain. You have to buy a $175 special adapter or you lose all your door chims and safty features, i.e.- onstar. Thats a load of crap. I still might upgrade one day but thats some major bullshiz.


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## rytekproject (Feb 25, 2011)

All the new integration of electronics is def a nightmare for DIYers. Upgrades cost so much more these days due to all the extra parts we have to buy to keep some stock functionality


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## Mark the Bold (May 28, 2010)

stealthninja said:


> Im a tinker'er by nature but F man this 08 chevy cobalt is such a pain. You have to buy a $175 special adapter or you lose all your door chims and safty features, i.e.- onstar. Thats a load of crap. I still might upgrade one day but thats some major bullshiz.


Welcome to GM stereo installs. I f-in hate them. Door panels are vastly easier to remove / replace than Honda / Toyotas. But that's about it.

Wait till you see how the seats are bolted to the floor. 

The threaded bolts are welded directly to the floor meaning you are guaranteeed to sit / kneel down on one of those hellspikes at least once during an install.

Personally, I think losing door chimes are a blessing as I like to keep listening to radio while I'm gassing up, etc. I removed my door buzzer entirely in the Toyota when I changed the led backlight color of my instrument cluster.

Be really careful when ordering those expensive Scosche / Metra parts for GM because a large part of the whole design is to use the factory speakers with a new headunit. AND there is a completely different unit for each and every kind of factory system (Bose, JBL, etc. etc.) that IS NOT BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE to install your own amp / speakers. The fact that you are on DIYMA.com means you are probably (And hopefully) not going that factory speaker route anyway.

So to go the cheapest route you need three seperate modules:

(a) a real cheap Axxess $40 (metra) part that just tricks the GM computer system into thinking the factory system is still there and includes the necessary harness

(b) you then you can buy a sp2008 or something (essentially a self-amplified mini-speaker) that sits in your dash that allows both door chime sounds and On-star audio out.

(c) If you want steering wheel controls, there is another $50 ASWC (axxess) module for that too.

(d) If you have a car alarm you will also need a degree in Feng Shui to stuff all that crap back into your dash with your new headunit. Load up on patience before you try this. Its tighter than tight and no matter how tidy you are, it quickly turns into a rats nest of wires.

I recommend you call Metra / Axxess or Scosche directly and be REALLY REALLY REALLY specific as to what you need from their products. 99 out of 100 audio shops will sell you the super-bose-jl integration module that costs like $200 bucks and will most likely not work for your needs. Most if not all of those super-duper expensive modules assume you are keeping the existing factory speakers. Be very skeptical of anybody who tells you otherwise.

Hope this helps.


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

stealthninja said:


> Im a tinker'er by nature but F man this 08 chevy cobalt is such a pain. You have to buy a $175 special adapter or you lose all your door chims and safty features, i.e.- onstar. Thats a load of crap. I still might upgrade one day but thats some major bullshiz.


A G35 or Acura TL needs to have A lot of interior replaced also.

the nice kit for a G35 is $350 , you can get a metra at a nice price of $200.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I do take into consideration the factory system when shopping for a new car. I want a head unit that has the features I already want, so I don't have to replace it. I prefer systems with an external amp, which makes it easy to access line-level signals and speaker wires for my own amps. Factory 6.5 speakers is a must for me now; after having to muck with 5x7 adapters for the past couple years I just want something that drops right in.

The best stock speakers I ever heard were in the 2004 VW I had. I had to replace the HU cause it was garbage, but I was very impressed with the door speakers powered by a decent CD player. Most factory speakers I have heard were absolutely awful. I hope the stock system in the Accord has decent enough power that I can put my CK6 mids in the doors and route the factory sub channel to my 12w6 and at least be content for a while until I have the free time to put in new amps.


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## epulliam (May 15, 2011)

What I've done with the last few cars, and my wife's car is add the high end audio system, rather than replace the original electronics. The most recent vehicle was her new nissan murano. Everything is driven by the large lcd, and I didn't want to lose the backup camera, etc. If you search the net, there are companies whose bread n butter is factory video integration. Basically they have boxes that allow you to tap into that LCD and use it as a video monitor. I bought one of these, dissected it, and figured out what was going on. I was able to make my own for the murano, using what I learned from the box I bought for my sierra. The trick then comes down to where you want to stash the deck, and running the speaker wires to bypass all the small 1ch amps. Something more advanced I have been able to do for my truck, is actually modify firmware in the factory nav unit to add an "AUX" button on the main menu, to allow my sources to play in to the system rather than using the factory sources as an input to my aftermarket deck. I wouldn't recommend going this far unless you have a programming background, and each brand of vehicle is drastically different! 

If there is anyone else on here that is into modifying the stock software of GMC/Cadillac, Ford Sync, or Nissan nav/audio units please let me know!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

What I've learned is that you can't just buy a $200 set of comps and expect it to sound better than the factory premium systems where before, just about anything aftermarket was an upgrade. The sub would be a different story, just about anything aftermarket will be better than factory.

In my TL, I originally used Infinities which had better clarity but the same or less midbass as factory. Then I went with the ID CTX65 which had more midbass but vocals were maybe as good as stock and highs were definitely better. It wasn't until I did the Dyn 342 set that they were much better in every way. You might not have to spend $1,200 to $1,500 on a set of comps but a $200 set won't get you there either.

I guess if the stock system starts off better you're less likely to upgrade since the sound is not as offensive and knowing it's going to cost more to outdo the stock stuff is another blow to the motivation. Even so, it's fun for me and the integration was exceptionally easy.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

I would if I had that system: 









Kelvin


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## mhyde71 (Feb 17, 2008)

true true... always upgrade when/if budget allows


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## Struglife (Mar 25, 2011)

In my own ride......no way! It makes it more of a hassle and its much more complicated but that's alright! As far as selling and installing....I'd much rather make mine off of ipod/bluetooth factory integration and adding subs to the factory!


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## GouRiki (Apr 9, 2010)

I actually prefer the Fujitsu Ten speakers in my 1990 Isuzu Trooper over the Bose system in my 2004 Mazda 6 GT. After listening to the Bose system for a couple months, I had to get rid of it and I have done so, though I am using the stock Panasonic HU that comes with the Bose system because it puts out a flat 2v signal.

I think, considering the added costs to adding one of the "premium" sound systems to the sticker price of a new car, you can always do better with an aftermarket system using that extra money.


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## rape_ape (Sep 22, 2010)

Yes, for a while. Then, the itch starts, and you just gotta scratch. behehehe.... 


EDIT: Actually, in my new car, I upgraded the stock "midranges" in the dash with Dayton tweeters almost immediately, then got to thinkin....


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## billbillw (Aug 25, 2009)

Some cars come with really nice sounding systems, but many of the more inexpensive cars have crap for sound. 

10 years ago, I bought a VW Passat with the Monsoon system. While it didn't play as loud or with as much bass as my previous aftermarket system, the overall sound (especially imaging and midrange detail) were better. I stuck with that system for the length of time I owned the car (9 years). I replaced that car with a Mazdaspeed3 and that stereo sucked. I couldn't stand to listen for more than 30 minutes or it gave me a headache. After 1 month, I gutted the car and put in a fairly nice 'budget' system. 

After that, I went to a loaded Mercedes C-class with the Harmon-Kardon audio system. I was very impressed by the sound from that factory system. Tangible low bass, good imaging, clean highs, realistic midrage. It was plagued by some door rattles. I helped it some with some dampening sheets, but the window switches still buzzed with certain notes. After some car ADD, I sold that car and downgraded to an older Merc E-class, which is where I am now. It has the factory Blose system, but I can't really stand the sound of it. Bass is muddled, highs are gravelly, midrange is actually pretty good though. Not the best for imaging either. Since I'm planning on keeping this car for awhile, I think I will be gutting the system and doing a very limited system. I will be doing an incremented approach. HU first, amp and rear deck free air subs next, eventually a 2nd amp and replace door speaks with comps or coax depending on how much time I have. 

I have plans to swap out most of that system in increments


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Any bose system out there sounds like garbage. The masses are conditioned to think "brand name x" arbitrarily sounds good, and will tell themselves it's the best sounding car stereo on earth, so long as it has a popular brand name.

I am impressed with the "Premium audio" speakers in my new Honda. They are made by some Japanese OEM company called Foster. But even for factory speakers they have Kevlar cones and Neo magnets, and surprisingly good midrange response. I installed my amps (PDX F4 and M6) and my own sub, and have the stock fronts running off 2 of the F4's channels, and it's rather impressive! The tweeters are bright (aluminum dome), but it's livable with the treble at -3, and they actually get rather loud and sound good doing so. I have to high-pass around 90Hz or so, since the mids don't play very deep, but it really is better than most factory speakers I've ever heard.

Eventually I do plan to put the CK6's back in, but this setup makes the wait bearable.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Honda has used poly cones and neo motors for some time now, a decade almost I'd say. They realized long ago if they spent an extra $5 on speakers they could get their average customer to spend a few hundred more on a premium sound and never replace it.

You only need to look at the decline of sales in the industry to see that the market has resoundingly said "yes, upgraded factory systems make me not want to bother with aftermarket".


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

FAUEE said:


> Honda has used poly cones and neo motors for some time now, a decade almost I'd say. They realized long ago if they spent an extra $5 on speakers they could get their average customer to spend a few hundred more on a premium sound and never replace it.
> 
> You only need to look at the decline of sales in the industry to see that the market has resoundingly said "yes, upgraded factory systems make me not want to bother with aftermarket".


Have you ever heard the "system" in a Honda Ridgeline? They sound as bad as anything I had hear to date from a factory system. Great truck, HORRIBLE factory system!


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I can't speak for any other vehicle, I can only say that using a real amp instead of the factory amp (no power, built in processing garbage) made all the difference in the world. I fully realize they are still cheap speakers regardless, but they don't sound "bad" by any means. I have heard "bad" car speakers before, and no amount of changes short of replacing them will ever make an improvement.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

im convinced upgrading sound will be inevitable in all the vehicles i have from now til i die. Unless automakers provide a truely, "audiophile" quality sound system.


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## tgdrums1990 (Nov 26, 2008)

Being a Valet for a 4 start hotel I get to drive some cool cars... 

I can tell you that the Factory systems in a lot of the BMW's and Mercedez now a days are pretty nice. Tho I would end up upgrading them for volume and better bass... 

But these car manufacture's are stepping up the game... I can tell you the new lincon vehicles for still using the junk they do sound pretty damn nice for what they are... But nuthing compared to a properly installed time aligned component set and sub...


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

They really don't influence my decisions...unless you are in some serious high dollar new car, all of those stock systems can be upgraded.

But then, I'm more into restoring older cars...so I don't go out buying new cars all that much.


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## daishi100 (Aug 29, 2011)

I just got into car audio this past November and since then I have easily spent 400 hours in my car modifying it. I just love messing around, even if it sounds good it can still sound better. So no, no matter how elaborate or "high end" these factory systems are there are always going to be those of us that just like to mess around and say "what if I?"


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## EazyM3 (Sep 15, 2006)

When I bought my wife's Mini Cooper rolled off the dealership, there was no way I'd tamper with it since the HU was completely integrated with the car. I guess that's why I prefer old cars now... :laugh:


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

EazyM3 said:


> When I bought my wife's Mini Cooper rolled off the dealership, there was no way I'd tamper with it since the HU was completely integrated with the car. I guess that's why I prefer old cars now... :laugh:


You can bypass that HU... 

Or at least find out if it can run an upgraded system. I suppose the main things would be

1. number of pre outs
2. quality of the HU

If it can handle 2 pairs of speakers and the main thing, the amp(s) you are set!


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

His main PITA will be the dang 4" speakers. Gross.


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

kvndoom said:


> His main PITA will be the dang 4" speakers. Gross.


4" yikes


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## meelo (Jul 2, 2007)

I think I was blindly content with the BOSE "BLOWS" system when it came with my car. Until I sat back in my old 2001 Honda Accord sedan that I had my CDA-9835 with some CDT HD-62's running off of deck power and it sounded 10X better than my current car. 

That prompted me to change my sub to a better one....then the fronts were just garbage....so those got changed. I didn't want to touch the HU so I shoved a BitOne in there to compensate....the only thing i liked about the stock setup was that the headunit produced a flat signal for me to tap to and the lame EQ's came from the stock amps (luckily)....


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

meelo said:


> I think I was blindly content with the BOSE "BLOWS" system when it came with my car. Until I sat back in my old 2001 Honda Accord sedan that I had my CDA-9835 with some CDT HD-62's running off of deck power and it sounded 10X better than my current car.
> 
> That prompted me to change my sub to a better one....then the fronts were just garbage....so those got changed. I didn't want to touch the HU so I shoved a BitOne in there to compensate....the only thing i liked about the stock setup was that the headunit produced a flat signal for me to tap to and the lame EQ's came from the stock amps (luckily)....


Yeah, blose delete and keeping the stock HU was almost painfully easy in a Mazda. Every wire you needed was under the driver's seat. Honda, not so much.


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## 2fast4all (May 19, 2008)

When I first bought my 2011 Kia SOUL, I liked the headunit's features and layout. Very basic an did more than I needed already. Though the radio itself sounded AWFUL..the Sirius sounded AWFUL.. I was upgrading anyways so new speakers, tweeters and amps later and LOC on the stock HU. It sounded a lot better but the radio/sirius STILL sounded AWFUL. Months later the stock HU killed one of my flash drives so I decided to stick my old Sony HU back in. Everything sounded like the way it should be. 

So YES, I think new cars with stock audio are still upgradable worthy.


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## AKheathen (Sep 10, 2011)

well, the poll questions made me take a min to actually vote "system" means the whole thing, which i eventually always modify, no matter how good it sounds. i like stupid loud earth-shakers, and nothing stock does that.... that being said- i've also moved to keeping the stock head, or even finding a compatible oem upgrade, if wanted. integration is key to me, and as long as the head can function with decent sound quality, tapping into it any number of ways/functions is a cake walk, in comparison to scabbing a "stand-allone" that omits factory features. really, one of the big things comes down to the lack of decent factory databuss interface in aftermarket modules. yah, i could throw in a cheesey door dinger, but the factory stereo sounds nice. some high end stuff allows steering-wheel control, but really, it is much easier to integrate a nice setup and perephrials to a factory head, than to the vehicle, so i keep all my features, and have a nice system. sorta have your cake, and eat it too. plus the z71bose touchscreen is still purdy eye-candy


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## The Buzz (Aug 10, 2009)

I think the only sound systems some people might be satisfied with would be those in very expensive high end cars because the manufacturers have just put more money and optimization into them from the start. Cheaper cars still have trash sound systems. 

In installing for 13-14 years now I still could count the # I wouldn't necessarily gut on one hand. The big difference is head units though, not OEM amps or speakers so much. Whether it's just from idiotic shapes and bus integration, to actually desirable options such as satellite radio, MP3, BT, etc that seems to be the largest integration/replacement consideration of the last few years. I hate 99% of factory decks, and one of the few I wouldn't replace is in our 2008 F-150. It has NAV, touchscreen, Sirius and is very easy to use. The only thing I REALLY wish it had is bluetooth. As far as the system, it has a decent sounding 8" sub and mediocre speakers which I would mass replace and add amps if I had the $$ even more than likely keeping the head. The only I hate is that it has the internal 6 disc changer and I have replaced so many Ford changer decks that I know it's a matter of when not if the motor junks up.


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## mht_v10 (Dec 10, 2005)

kinda..that's why Im keeping my blose system on my fiat 500


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## fisc2307 (Oct 29, 2011)

I feel like I have something to add here because I have worked engineering firsthand in the car industry. We have already been seeing the integration of aftermarket sound systems becoming more difficult. If you have OnStar or BluLink and you want to keep it you have to purchase a special module. Same thing with steering wheel controls. If you look at cars like the Prius or the Volt, (at least the volt) has a fully integrated LCD screen within the dash featuring capacitive touch buttons. It also interfaces with the diagnostics system and charging systems so if it were to be replaced you would loose that feature. Some cars like the Acura use the LCD Nav to control the A/C system. You cant replace that. I don't believe that replacing car stereos will die, but it will either become very costly to do so, or only be feasible on the lower end cars that don't have extra features.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

I don't understand why all car manufacturers couldn't be forced to provide at least a single pre-amp out with all hidden processing turned off on it. Is there an industry association or someone who could lobby for this?


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

ZAKOH said:


> I don't understand why all car manufacturers couldn't be forced to provide at least a single pre-amp out with all hidden processing turned off on it. Is there an industry association or someone who could lobby for this?


I can't imagine the car audio world having enough pull to lobby for something like this, and I doubt they'd want to. It would hurt the aftermarket HU market.

I doubt they want to put money into lobbying, to shoot themselves in the foot with the HU business.

You could get private investors to lobby, and get results. But you need money to lobby, and I don't see HU manufacturers lobbying to make their own products less desirable.


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## klutchmaster427 (May 5, 2011)

Stick with the classic rides and install your own stereo from the ground up and you never have to worry about it! haha
BUT, if I had newer car, then yes I would be relatively reluctant on upgrading the HU due to the integration problem that's already been discussed several times over in the thread.
However, someone will always see their place to make money, and this opens up a huge area for profit. There are already several options as far as simple, and effective upgrades to your stock HU's. But some of the newer stock systems are so advanced that they run relatively common virtual machines as far as software goes, some even run java. This means that in the near future (if not now), there may be a stereo that a tricky engineer could find a way to manipulate pinout for various things to essentially be used as a "port" for various "expansion cards." Due to the these newer HUs using virtual machines for programming rather than downloading code into a hardware microcontroller, it would in theory be possible to add a piece of hardware to the deck (like a preamp out board) and then use bluetooth or USB, or even just a CD to update the software to control this new hardware. It's a bit of a stretch but if development of the stock HU's keeps moving in the direction it's currently headed, it's quite possible.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm almost to the point where I want to put my stock HU back into my car. I have a 2011 toyota SUV that came with a 6 cd changer. 
I'm now going on my second different new head unit, 3rd set of front component speakers, second set of rear comps, second amp, second sub and 3rd radio antenna to the tune of about $3K cash. 
After all this, the FM reception sucks despite the best tuner (I like FM) and the sound is not 100% better than the stock system and I am ALWAYS adjusting the dam thing. 
The stock head (fujitsu) unit was actually pretty decent, had great FM reception and the manufacturer obviously spent a lot of time tuning the complete system to the vehicles acoustics- I hardly ever had to adjust the bass or treble- if so just a little bit. The sound was so full and smooth. 
Granted it did not play as loud as my new system but I'm finding that too loud is very harsh and that what good is cranking my favorite FM station if it fades and statics and my favorite CDs if they sound so revealing and harsh in the midrange? 
My new amp on order (JL HD 900) had best solve all my issues. My cheap pioneer class d amp sounds too gritty.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Headunits are slowly dying and will completely die out in a few years. That being said, the rest of the audio system in a car can be greatly improved with aftermarket speakers and amplifiers. That won't die away any time soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

My wife has an 08 Toyota Camry with JBL audio. It has speakers up on the dash by the windshield and some in the door slightly above leg level.

One thing I noticed is that imaging for this stock system is amazing, Im constantly looking at the upper center of the dash. It actually sounds pretty good. It may not have the clarity, dynamics, and output of my all-aftermarket system in my car, but the imaging is something else IMO.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I am kinda impressed with the clarity of my current factory system minus the pathetic excuse for a sub Pioneer made for the HHR's. I also like the looks of the HU. But in the end I like more sound across all frequencies and the factory system will just not cut it for me. I have considered retaining the HU but mostly just to avoid the cost of the GM Lan harness. In the end I WILL change the HU to Pioneers aftermarket version of my factory HU. I swear the double din 8000bt looks so close to this factory Pioneer HU lol.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

07azhhr said:


> I am kinda impressed with the clarity of my current factory system minus the pathetic excuse for a sub Pioneer made for the HHR's. I also like the looks of the HU. But in the end I like more sound across all frequencies and the factory system will just not cut it for me. I have considered retaining the HU but mostly just to avoid the cost of the GM Lan harness. In the end I WILL change the HU to Pioneers aftermarket version of my factory HU. I swear the double din 8000bt looks so close to this factory Pioneer HU lol.


Post a pic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nasty02M3 (Jun 5, 2011)

At this point I'd leave the stock HU alone on a newer car, depending on system intergration. Everything else is fair game though


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## BT5150 (Dec 31, 2011)

I have thought about this before myself and what effect it will have on the business of aftermarket car stereo equipment. I'd agree with some here that the HU's will start to fade as the factory systems continue to become more integrated with the rest of the car.

As far as the sound of "premium" factory systems, I've heard them all over the map, good and bad. What's even more interesting is how the same brand can sound so different in different cars. My mom has a new Caddy CTS, its all loaded out with the Bose 5.1 system and nav. (and she couldn't care less!) That Bose system sounds pretty darn good to me, the only things I can say would make it better would be more bass and overall loudness when cranked. I've also had the chance to hear the Naim system in a Bentley Continental GT and would say all it lacked was a little more boom to the bass. (and this is I think a $4000 option on a $200,000 car!) I doubt any factory system will ever have "booming" bass just because of the amount of room it takes to build a big enough bass box.


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

most stock systems suck balls.

That said, I don't really have anyone who is as interested in audio as I am in my group, save one buddy.

In general the hobby is not as prevalent. I think a lot of it is not only money/cost of entry but just awareness of things and promotion.


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## Vital (Feb 23, 2010)

> The state-of-the-art 825 watt system features industry-leading sound processing. Fifteen amplifier channels drive the 17 speakers (including subwoofer) to produce the ultimate in surround sound performance. The system includes Meridian’s own Tri-field system, Dolby® Pro Logic® IIx and the DTS neo-6 decoder. Power ratings are at a practically audio distortion free level of 0.2% THD + N (Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise).
> 
> CD and MP3 disc and file compatibility for your iPod® or other MP3 devices is standard. A sophisticated audio tuning system digitally corrects any imperfections created by the cabin environment to deliver accurate, enveloping, and distortion-free sound for all seating positions.


So i get inside 2012 Range Rover Evoque, turn the music on and realize it is so freaking amazing i would not wanna touch it if it was my car.
Not sure where all 17 speakers are at but looking at visible speaker grills:
Center speaker(s) on the dash
3-way components in the front doors
2-ways in rear doors
2 speakers (grills to be more specific) in the rear panels of the car
And i'm sure there's a sub in there somewhere + a few more speakers.

So you really think you can make it significantly better within reasonable budget?? I highly doubt it.
If you're a basshead then adding another sub or two would make sense but otherwise that sotck system was best i've heard. Absolutly amazing sound quality, well tunned, no "speakers in the rear" feeling, plenty loud.....

Too bad not everyone can afford 2012 Range Rover Evoque


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

jonatbaylor said:


> most stock systems suck balls.
> 
> That said, I don't really have anyone who is as interested in audio as I am in my group, save one buddy.
> 
> In general the hobby is not as prevalent. I think a lot of it is not only money/cost of entry but just awareness of things and promotion.


I don't think it's the money thing. Americans spend ridiculous amounts of cash on things like clothes/designer hand bags/sports etc. Americans don't really care about great sound. Most are happy with 128kbs mp3s on their iPhones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

Vital said:


> So i get inside 2012 Range Rover Evoque, turn the music on and realize it is so freaking amazing i would not wanna touch it if it was my car.
> Not sure where all 17 speakers are at but looking at visible speaker grills:
> Center speaker(s) on the dash
> 3-way components in the front doors
> ...


I see your point exactly. If my vehicle had a system like that, I probably would just leave it alone...but over time that "what if" feeling may get the best of me



Angrywhopper said:


> I don't think it's the money thing. Americans spend ridiculous amounts of cash on things like clothes/designer hand bags/sports etc. Americans don't really care about great sound. Most are happy with 128kbs mp3s on their iPhones.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sad but true..


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## pimpndahoz (Dec 11, 2011)

My wife's 08 Jeep Commander came with the premium Boston Acoustics sound system/navigation and I think it's the best sounding factory system I've ever heard. In fact it gave me the "itch" for car audio again, so I'm upgrading my car.


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## Tao Jones (Oct 14, 2010)

basshead said:


> The only time i can enjoy music it's when i'm in the car, so yeah stock is not an option.
> 
> When i choose a car, its sound "upgradability" is in the list of important criteria.



I'm the same way. I hardly ever listen to music at home. The only time I actually sit and listen to music is in my car. 

OEM integration could make certain upgrades easier. I was looking at a Mitsu Lancer last year and saw that they had a 10" fitted nicely like a stealthbox in the trunk. I immediately thought about what other 10s can fit in there. 

When I had my 2000 Galant, I had to cut something somewhere if I wanted tweeters in the car. Now with my Element, it was a direct replacement with no cutting involved.


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## rideit (Nov 20, 2011)

rc10mike said:


> I see your point exactly. If my vehicle had a system like that, I probably would just leave it alone...but over time that "what if" feeling may get the best of me:.


Yup.
It's the reason why we are all here on this forum! 
Within weeks, I would be researching just exactly what drivers are in there, what else *might* fit, how i could manage a time alignment solution, what their crossovers and and amps are set at, and if they were tunable...

Hell, my stereo is my no one FAVORITE thing about my truck, i don't think there is such a thing as 'ultimate satisfaction'...


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Vital said:


> So i get inside 2012 Range Rover Evoque, turn the music on and realize it is so freaking amazing i would not wanna touch it if it was my car.
> Not sure where all 17 speakers are at but looking at visible speaker grills:
> Center speaker(s) on the dash
> 3-way components in the front doors
> ...


Do they still use Harmon Kardon for the whole system? Atleast that is what I think I remember seeing in an older Land Rover.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I deliberately got the base factory sound option to create a budget for a DIYMA install. But there are several factory sound systems I've heard that are impressive enough such that I might be happy with them, perhaps with a few small tweaks. My brother's 2011 Mustang GT is an example. That thing is 80% of the way there.


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## designerfh (Nov 4, 2007)

I went ahead and got the upgraded audio on my 2012 Cruze, just to make install easier. I can basically swap the stock amp for a MS8, all the wires are there in the trunk. Already have room in the dash for a center channel, etc.

Got some HAT and JL goodness to along with the MS8... hope to start the build soon.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

saMxp said:


> I deliberately got the base factory sound option to create a budget for a DIYMA install. But there are several factory sound systems I've heard that are impressive enough such that I might be happy with them, perhaps with a few small tweaks. My brother's 2011 Mustang GT is an example. That thing is 80% of the way there.


The base system in my 2012 WRX sucks, but I am going to address that soon enough! Time is the only thing I don't have right now...


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I never thought I would say this but I think I am on the side of not upgrading. 

I just bought a 2006 Toyota Avalon no Navigation but it does have the top of the line JBL Synthesis system. I just picked it up today and only done casual listening but I think I would be hard pressed to better the sound without spending $4k or more. The radio is integrated with the display screen. I have read some people have moved it to the trunk and replaced with after market HU, but it sounds complex. 

I think an after market system would have improved dynamics but I am not sure it would be much improved in imaging, staging, and sound at normal listening levels. 

The bad - no Nav, need an iPOD adapter with complex install (see a theme here), Probably not iPhone compatible, no BU camera, may still need CDs, not sure about MP3. 

It is not perfect, it does lose a little composure at VERY high volumes. But it does get very loud with enough volume to listen with the windows down in traffic at 50 mph. The midrange is not as silky as I prefer, and it seems to be tuned to emphsize midbass over midrange clarity.

My first impressions: 

Mad Season's track "Wake Up" had the doors and back deck resonating some. But the bass line was rendered well. This is a killer track to point out issues with midbass to sub transistion. In my experiences poser midbass speakers need not apply. And the doors do resonate to the touch at high volumes, deadener may help there. On "Artificial Red" the drum shots are very realistic. 

The surround sound is pretty subtle but it does tend to narrow the soundstage somewhat. Not nearly to the extent as I experienced in a Jeep Grand Cherokee rental last year and I hated that surround implementation. I think I will probably prefer the surround off in the long run, but TBD. The JBL version is pretty good. 

The sub is pretty impressive for a 8 inch IB setup. I will listen to some more rap and hip hop to see how it holds up to boom. So far no sense of bass from behind. 

The stage seems to be just below eye height with width extended to the pillars without surround. Depth is OK not to the end of the hood but nice sense of 3 dimensions. 

I have not listened enough to comment on placement of instruments, but there is a "Being There" feeling with the few live recordings I have tried. 

I have not listened to many stock systems but the JBL Synthsis is bar far the best I have heard. The Lexus ML is probably better but I can't afford Lexus. 

I may change my mind over the next few months. But right now for a daily driver I cannot justify upgrade expense for a small performance gain. 

The good news for you fellow DIYMA members is I will probably be dumping a ton of high end, or at least nice equipment in the next few months. I will probably hold on to a few select pieces like Alpine F1 Scans, but the rest will likely be on the block.


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## Khymera-B (Oct 6, 2009)

I have the Bose Concert in my A6. The lows are kinda muddy and flat, other than that I'm happy. As far as the base radio that was in my Integra, I swapped everything. I then put it all in the Audi and now I'm taking out everything except the sub and amp.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Khymera-B said:


> I have the Bose Concert in my A6. The lows are kinda muddy and flat, other than that I'm happy. As far as the base radio that was in my Integra, I swapped everything. I then put it all in the Audi and now I'm taking out everything except the sub and amp.


I have 2007 A4 Q, and really hated my sound system that came with the car, even though it was a pain in the ass to replace everything, I still ended up doing it.

Now i'm supper happy with the results, I still need to do little tuning here and there but over all it beats my stock sound system.


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## CaptainCrunch (Feb 14, 2012)

I had a 2005 Chrysler Pacifica touring fully loaded with premium sound system and it sounded awesome, had 10 speakers including the sub. I had that ride for 6 yrs and never thought once about changing out the sound system. Now I have a 2011 Honda Accord Coupe with the 270 watt premium HU, which is tied in with the anti theft system. However I did dump the stock speakers for a full Alpine Type R system with the LC6i and Hertz HDP 5 amp, and man what a awesome sound now.

I personaly like the stock look, and like many other have said, with quality and ALL the extra things tied in with todays stock HU's it's better off staying with and just upgrading around it.


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## Khymera-B (Oct 6, 2009)

I've officially returned to stock. I pulled everything. I'm getting too old to be riding around blaring Young Jeezy.


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## stargazer39 (Jun 19, 2009)

Stock systems just doesn't have the detail and dynamics that makes me really enjoy the music. I will always upgrade no matter what. :laugh:


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

not at all. oem is never as good


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I have a classic chevelle and instead of pulling out the factory am radio that still works, I just put in a whole new hu in a different location. I would think thats always an option for people who dont want to take out the originals for whatever reason. The only issue i had was splitting the antenna signal.


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## db_Outlaw (May 10, 2012)

When I bought my 09 g8gt a few years ago, I was into performance over stereo. I've since recouped my love for car stereo. The g8 HU has integrated HVAC controls and steering wheel controls. When I first bought the car, the only option for a HU swap was to install dual HUs; no thanks. Now there's a company that makes a sweet digital touchpad HVAC control but it costs $400. Pass. My solution. Audison Bit 1, external amp and swap out the speakers. Done.

The thing I most hated about the stock stereo, other than HVAC integration, was that the IB subs (dual 8s) where wired to the rear channel of the stock amp. So as soon as you fade the stereo to the front speakers, bass goes bye bye.

My upgrades will be install by the end of the year so I won't have to suffer much longer.


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