# Old school Precision Power- Unknown model



## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Anyone know what model amplifier this is? Picked it up today.


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

Show us those guts!


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I carefully peeled the warranty sticker to find that she's been on fire at least once. I may try to fix it tomorrow if I can figure out what exact part I need.

Anyways, look whats inside!


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

I can't tell by the pics, but you should see a model # somewhere on the circuit board. Might be "made by PPI" for another mfg


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

^^ This is why it's usually a good idea to open up Old School amps to visually inspect before powering them up. I wouldn't worry too much about warranty stickers unless the amp is in MINT condition


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## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

looks like ppi late 80's early 90's like when ppi was making MTX amp's and crutchfield
i tound this in another car audio forum-PPI made 2 series of amps for Crutchfield. Blue and grey. The blue ones were made in the early 90's the grey ones followed soon after. These were roughly equivalent to the M series. Good amps and good value. I have a 2x75 which really drives a 10" sub!!


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm looking for a model number on the board now. I looked earlier but I may have missed something.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Only matkings on the board are 75-7510 REV B


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

1styearsi said:


> looks like ppi late 80's early 90's like when ppi was making MTX amp's and crutchfield
> i tound this in another car audio forum-PPI made 2 series of amps for Crutchfield. Blue and grey. The blue ones were made in the early 90's the grey ones followed soon after. These were roughly equivalent to the M series. Good amps and good value. I have a 2x75 which really drives a 10" sub!!


There was a JL Audio amp made by PPI on eBay a few months ago and it appeared to have the style of the late 80's PPI amps. I'd never seen one of those before, should've picked it up!

OP, I'm hoping the real PPI experts chime in soon, I'm not being much help here...


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks anyways BigD, I was actually going to message you on youtube before I made this thread. Was hoping you might of known about it. 

Either way, it's a nice amp and if I can get it repaired I'm going to be using it for mids and highs as a part of an old school build in my car.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

Those knobs look familiar........ none of which were on PPI branded amps.

Timeframe on that amp is going to be right around here: https://picasaweb.google.com/106745425096629261746/ForTheLoveOfTheGamePt5#5445778481553748994


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

1styearsi said:


> looks like ppi late 80's early 90's like when ppi was making MTX amp's and crutchfield
> i tound this in another car audio forum-PPI made 2 series of amps for Crutchfield. Blue and grey. The blue ones were made in the early 90's the grey ones followed soon after. These were roughly equivalent to the M series. Good amps and good value. I have a 2x75 which really drives a 10" sub!!


Those looked like this though: 










The amp in the OP is around 1987.

The serial sticker and wty sticker is PPI, but the amp looks nothing like PPI. They didn't use knobs, early amps had different characteristics to the mobo.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

This amp doesn't use a molex plug or anything. You have to screw down the speaker wires and remote.

The amp is weird lol. It's got direct connect power and ground, which is thick 4 gauge, but a 40 amp fuse and a weird screw down speaker terminal 

I really want to try and fix it tomorrow but I don't know for sure what that component is that got fried up. It's labeled C81 so I assume it's a capacitor. I'm guessing it's the same as the others in that similar position. I am by no means in any position to try and repair this thing myself but I'd feel bad to throw it to the side and forget about it like a few of my other amps.

It's a real nice amp and I'm definitely itching to hear what kind of sound this thing produces.


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

I have a couple of questions... since I'm driving I can't look closely at pics but How do you know it's PPI...??.. PPI Pre-1996 amps can usually be easily identified by things mentioned above like "Made by PPI" or made in USA with the PPI sign... also it's often times small and almost hidden and on occasion partially obscured by a folded component... another thing is the numbers on the board can often help and sometimes even tell you which circuit boards are similar... eg.. a 4200m board is similar to a 2075 board and the 4200m board says xx-2075 Rev. X... lastly the early PPI amps evolved very straight forward and often you can pinpoint the years it was made.... I can't wait to stop for the night and look at your pics.... Keith


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## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

^ you should already be stopped Doc your not a vampire ;D


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Dude when you get home please take a good look and tell me what you can.

It has a warranty sticker on the bottom cover that says Precision Power, that's all I can can see. I'm surprised that it's so bare, never seen an amp with no information at all lol

As for the board, it says 75-7510 REV B on it but nothing else.


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

Where did you pick it up..??., and the million $ question is how much do you want for it.... or heck I'd trade for it... and I havent even seen it..., I'll let you know what I think in an hour or two.... Keith


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I got it at a local pawn shop. Make me an offer, I'm willing to trade too I guess.


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

PM sent


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I sent you a PM


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

It's got a lot of differences in it than most any amp of that era because most companies used some wire to jump in their amps during that era and that one really is nearly wireless inside. The resistors back then were usually white block resistors, these were not. One thing about the resistors to note is that PPI spaces their resistors out, but Orion doesn't and back then they were similar in the way they lined them up, but this amp has them tighter together like an Orion. The shell size and shape is nearly identical in it's basic form to the Hifonics amps I linked from the late 80's, except the flat face. Hifonics were one of the only people to use knobs similar to those back then, not quite the same. (it's certainly however not hifonics)

Everything about that amp is a mystery. I'm sure the knobs go with the amp based on the side cutouts, but I'm wondering if the serial and wty sticker are original to that amp. PPI was making the PRO-Mos back then and preferred large lay-down capacitors, axial lead, (like most manufacturers in that era) rather than banks of stand up capacitors (we are talking mid-late 80's, not 90's where the Arts used large banks of caps). As far as I am concerned that amp has too much capacitance for PPI in that era. Those large blue block potentiometers were popular in Sound Stream amps, but SS used thinner ones they daisy chained up in large amounts. The rca's are very much PPI.

The only thing for certain is that because of that amp's age, it's Genesis.

EDIT: Actually it's probably not, but just entertain this idea on the side of it being possibly the oldest version of this amp https://picasaweb.google.com/106745425096629261746/ForTheLoveOfTheGamePt10#5533717069520823506


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

audiogodz1 said:


> It's got a lot of differences in it than most any amp of that era because most companies used some wire to jump in their amps during that era and that one really is nearly wireless inside. The resistors back then were usually white block resistors, these were not. One thing about the resistors to note is that PPI spaces their resistors out, but Orion doesn't and back then they were similar in the way they lined them up, but this amp has them tighter together like an Orion. The shell size and shape is nearly identical in it's basic form to the Hifonics amps I linked from the late 80's, except the flat face. Hifonics were one of the only people to use knobs similar to those back then, not quite the same. (it's certainly however not hifonics)
> 
> Everything about that amp is a mystery. I'm sure the knobs go with the amp based on the side cutouts, but I'm wondering if the serial and wty sticker are original to that amp. PPI was making the PRO-Mos back then and preferred large lay-down capacitors, axial lead, (like most manufacturers in that era) rather than banks of stand up capacitors (we are talking mid-late 80's, not 90's where the Arts used large banks of caps). Those large blue block potentiometers were popular in Sound Stream amps, but SS used thinner ones they daisy chained up in large amounts. The rca's are very much PPI.
> 
> ...


After looking at that board there's zero doubt in my mind that it's PPI.
The question is who did they make this for.
I'm wondering if it is a one off prototype since the board has no info and the heatsink is bare of any brand.
I'll shoot a link to The Stig and see if he knows.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Seems like a have something special in my possession. 

Dear God, I'd hate to find out how much the pawn shop bought it for. It's been sitting in their shop for months, it had a price tag on it for $69.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

Like I say, that amp is Genesis. It's the beginning of something. It should date around 1987-ish. It could have became one of the more popular amps of it's day in a later form of this version, which looks like a prototype. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder on this amp though... it's value is more in cool factor than price. It's not going to be an amp of great value, but coolness can't be measured on these Genesis prototypes.


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

PPI had a few dealer/competitor amps early on... I know 1 of them was a M series amp but I haven't seen one... I think it was an amp that was only sent out to those that were sponsored.... ... Keith


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

One reason I think it is PPI is that the back cover clamps the mosfets and because the warranty sticker was covering one of the screws, leading me to believe that possibly I was the first to open it. I don't know jack though, so


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

i am about to stop driving for the night and cannot wait to see it...


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Hope you like it


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

I love it and cannot wait to get it....now i am on a mission....to find out what it pre dates...


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Wow, I can't believe nobody guessed this one. That shows how old I am .

What we have here is a really old school *Lanzar Plus 200*, circa 1990-91. This is pre-Opti series.


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## aaron7 (Feb 5, 2012)

Aw... awww. All that buildup haha


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

MACS, I thought many of the early Lanzar's were Zed amps (pre-Opti) and Mantz always had Zed Audio silk screened on his boards? Maybe there were some non-Zed amps between his Lanzar designs and the Opti ones? I'm not doubting your finding here, just making sure I have my info correct 

The weird part about the amp shown here is even the serial number sticker is a PPI design


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

Doc ProMos said:


> I love it and cannot wait to get it....now i am on a mission....to find out what it pre dates...


Get some rest man, we'll be here when you come back :snacks:


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Bigdwiz, 

I am not a Lanzar expert by any means or Zed either for that matter. I have seen and owned a lot of PPI in my life and nothing about this amp screams PPI to me. I just can not see them making up a custom board for Lanzar when they did not do it for any other re-badged PPI amps. The component spacing and circuit board layout have zero similarity to any other PPI that I am aware of. It could be a Zed design, but does not really look like their amps either. The mystery continues .

I spent the last 30 or 40 minutes going through some of my old magazines and I only found one picture of this amp in my 1991 CA&E buyers guide. 

Specs listed are: 2x100 watts and it says it is 1/2 ohm stable(assuming that's stereo). Built in 3 band EQ. List price $1120.00.

Edit: I guess the general consensus is this is a PPI amp. Strange bird for sure and not like any other PPI board I know of


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Good stuff! I'm going to look at the board a little more to try and see anything at all.

I love that this amp is such a mystery


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

Awesome find MACS! I knew I shouldn't have questioned you :bowdown:

OP, get that amp fixed by someone who knows what they are doing...I haven't seen many of those around, might be worth some $$


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Yeah I hear you BigD. I'd really like to sell or trade it to someone who will care for it properly at this point because I'm trying to do an old school build and I wouldn't feel good having this in my car if it's that rare.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't know, I have mixed feeling about the amp.


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## bigdwiz (Oct 7, 2010)

I hear ya man, there are a ton of choices when it comes to old school amps for a current system! It would be cool to see this one all fixed up and refinished / silk screened


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Well, you may be onto something there... I would be nice to refinish this amp and bring it back to life.

She would look mighty good next to my USA-400...

Decisions decisions.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Definitely the Lanzar amp based on the advertisement pic.
Good job MACS.

This is what I know for sure after having 12 PPI's reconditioned.

1-warrant seal is PPI
2-serial# seal is PPI
3-All the vertically populated caps are same used in PPI
4-Blue bodied rcas same used in PPI
5-board layout with backing plate clamping the fets same as ppi
6-globbed on excessive thermal past and mica boards same as ppi
7-Even the torids are the same

This is a PPI board.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

Mystery solved, and one more reason why people should consider having ampguts access. There are more board pics, I only grabbed a few.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I went back to the pawn show and asked them about it some more. The guy told me that when he bought it months ago it was installed in the sellers car pushing a 15 inch sub...

I may try and power it on in a few to see what's up.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone for helping me identify the amp, at least sort of.

So we all agree this is a Lanzar sink?


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

Are you looking at the pics?


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Still curious as to why it's absolutely bare except for the sides.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

There is no mystery, the silk screen is just gone. The amp I posted above had hand writing on it and no silk screen........ and powering an amp you know is blown internally is not smart. Now that we know the amp this is going downhill a bit.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

audiogodz1 said:


> Are you looking at the pics?


Yep, I see the pics and I am sure that's the same amp as mine. Just now I'm curious exactly we're all looking at.

In the amp guts section what is that amp labeled as? Lanzar Plus 200?


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I wasn't planning on using it, just throwing power at it with a small 10 amp fuse to see if it indeed does turn on.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

Sigh............. well it was a good thread. Nice job Macs.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Way to sound like a douche. Thanks for the help anyway


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Id never of guessed that was a Lanzar quote me if I'm wrong on this but I've never seen a Lanzar with 2N6487 & 2N6490 output pairs I've only seen them use either TIP-142 & TIP-147 or TIP-35C & TIP-36C this must have been before Mantz took over building them just my opinion


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## PPI Master (Feb 22, 2011)

Ampman said:


> Id never of guessed that was a Lanzar quote me if I'm wrong on this but I've never seen a Lanzar with 2N6487 & 2N6490 output pairs I've only seen them use either TIP-142 & TIP-147 or TIP-35C & TIP-36C this must have been before Mantz took over building them just my opinion


Sorry I'm late to the party on this mystery amp.... are you guys staying up all night to discuss this? I own three of these Lanzars. of course that's because I'm PPI Master.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Way to sound like a douche. Thanks for the help anyway


I know you're hooking up an amp with physical damage to see if it smokes *more* and I'm the douche. Quit being an idiot. You've marked yourself already with the mere probability you'd attempt to hook up an amp with blown components to see if it smokes more or not rather than fix it properly then use it. If you want to be a pawn shop scavenger fine, but don't act like one with this equipment if you want help with it. The people here care about old school stuff and respect it enough not to try and set it ablaze before repairing it. That's something a 16 yr old trailer park mentality would do. 

Nothing further from me..... dead issue.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

PPI Master said:


> Sorry I'm late to the party on this mystery amp.... are you guys staying up all night to discuss this? I own three of these Lanzars. of course that's because I'm PPI Master.


You know I looked at the lanzar line in ampguts last night before I made a single post here and I somehow skipped that amp because the older line like the LXR were horribly built inside with the usual jumper wires and then the white block resistors and such so they looked nothing like this amp and I decided to move on to another brand. This amp is very unique in that era in the way it's built and nothing like any of the other Lanzar amps.


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

If your gonna hook it up, do it right and fold up a gum wrapper and jump the open trace....

Dr. Buddy Rydell: Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin... from now on, unacceptable

?... Keith


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## PPI Master (Feb 22, 2011)

audiogodz1 said:


> You know I looked at the lanzar line in ampguts last night before I made a single post here and I somehow skipped that amp because the older line like the LXR were horribly built inside with the usual jumper wires and then the white block resistors and such so they looked nothing like this amp and I decided to move on to another brand. This amp is very unique in that era in the way it's built and nothing like any of the other Lanzar amps.


I agree about the build on this mystery amp. I have some of the Lanzar LXRs and they aint worth two farts.... but this mystery amp is perplexing. I have three of them. and what boggles me is the hugeass 4 gauge power cables! The picture doesn't show it, but damn, that's serious stuff.... furthermore, the 4 ga cable is silver just like all the dwinky PPI amps of that era. I don't think Orion used the silver stuff, only PPI. I just never saw that silver cable in 4 gauge !! All my other PPI stuff with Sansui label or Crutchfield or GS designs,- whatever is on outside - they all have the crap 10 gauge silver wire that identifies it as old PPI.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

audiogodz1 said:


> I know you're hooking up an amp with physical damage to see if it smokes *more* and I'm the douche. Quit being an idiot. You've marked yourself already with the mere probability you'd attempt to hook up an amp with blown components to see if it smokes more or not rather than fix it properly then use it. If you want to be a pawn shop scavenger fine, but don't act like one with this equipment if you want help with it. The people here care about old school stuff and respect it enough not to try and set it ablaze before repairing it. That's something a 16 yr old trailer park mentality would do.
> 
> Nothing further from me..... dead issue.


I wasn't going to reply but I just feel I need to say one thing;

Don't insult my intelligence. You're assuming I was planning on powering this amp up and trying to use it to see if it's safe to install. I'm not that much of a fool. I planned on giving it power for a mere second or two to see if it in fact does turn on.

Don't give me your BS story about how you care deeply for old school audio, and I'm somehow slapping you all in the face for trying to power on an amplifier for a split second. You're talking to a guy who has beat up crap like Urban Audio Works and Profile amps among others and can't imagine ever throwing them away, AND still uses them all daily. 

It's besides the point but, I was born in 93 and it kills me that I never lived to see the old school days. I treat my crappy old amplifiers like their bars of gold and you should be glad there's kids like me who are still passionate about this stuff, and will hopefully pass it on and keep it alive.


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## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

SaturnSL1 said:


> I may try and power it on in a few to see what's up.












JK


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Prime mova said:


> JK


lol I didn't try yet 

I don't think I will though. The guy at the shop said when he bought it, it was hooked up and playing, but how?

Actually, I am more interested in understanding how a tiny little cap would fry up like that in the first place.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Found this on a Hungarian website

"Lanzar Pro Plus 200

2 x 100W @ 4 ohms (0.01% THD)
1 x 800W @ 1 ohms bridged
Fuse: 80A

Stable down to ? ohm stereo.
Built by Precision Power in 1991."


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

Hungarian Website.... now that's true dedication... 
20 y/o OS audio lover... right on.... 

But, I must agree that it would not be the best idea to apply power to it, even with a resistor in line... because that power is gonna go somewhere when it hits that point... and it might make it and it might not... but it's a nice piece of equipment and I for one don't wanna see it damaged any more than it is.... and on the flip side, I don't see that a pawn shop guy is necessarily the most trust worthy guy... I mean they mark up that stuff 1-300% and that to me means the dude selling it must have been hard up to sell it for $20 or it wasn't installed and the pawn guy didn't see it working and could only offer the guy $20..., Don't you watch "Pawn Stars" or "Hardcore Pawn"... lol


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Doc ProMos said:


> Hungarian Website.... now that's true dedication...
> 20 y/o OS audio lover... right on....
> 
> But, I must agree that it would not be the best idea to apply power to it, even with a resistor in line... because that power is gonna go somewhere when it hits that point... and it might make it and it might not... but it's a nice piece of equipment and I for one don't wanna see it damaged any more than it is.... and on the flip side, I don't see that a pawn shop guy is necessarily the most trust worthy guy... I mean they mark up that stuff 1-300% and that to me means the dude selling it must have been hard up to sell it for $20 or it wasn't installed and the pawn guy didn't see it working and could only offer the guy $20..., Don't you watch "Pawn Stars" or "Hardcore Pawn"... lol


LOL Thank you, I live for this stuff man. 

Yes, I agree with you all who think it's a bad idea. I decided against giving the amp power soon after the thought popped into my head. I'm going to sit down tomorrow and get to testing the resistor bank and the mosfets and crap. The resistors are like $1 per pair so I'll hopefully get lucky and only need to replace a few of them close to the blast zone lol, and not all of them.

As for the price of this amp at the pawn shop, when I first saw it a few months ago, they had a sticker on it for $70. When I bought it a few days ago it had no sticker and they wanted $40. They let it go to me for $25. 

So, I got it for peanuts, like every other old school amp I have. Would you believe I bought a 1999 US Amps USA400 in perfect working order for $20?


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## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

SaturnSL1 said:


> As for the price of this amp at the pawn shop, when I first saw it a few months ago, they had a sticker on it for $70. When I bought it a few days ago it had no sticker and they wanted $40. They let it go to me for $25.
> 
> So, I got it for peanuts, like every other old school amp I have. Would you believe I bought a 1999 US Amps USA400 in perfect working order for $20?


Epic buys, man and an awesome start to your collection...keep up the good work.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you Prime. I will try lol.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Just read this on the caraudio.com forum

"Re: Will Amps ever become high value collectible art?
will amps be collectable art?...i don't know about art , but yes the very best older amps ppi/rf/lanzar/ etc.. are very collectable, ........to me they are anyways....but everybody has there own hobbies. like the post on page 2, the guy loves his optimus amps! i would consider them not worth it but he likes them...nothing wrong with that...lol............shoot i have a very old 4 channel class A pyramid amp that is in mint condition. is it worth alot of $$$ ??? of course not , but to me its a thing of wonder .....lmao

i also collect older ppi amps, and any rare amp that ppi made for other companies like JL audio, sansui,.etc.......i have 2 lanzar pro plus 200's that were made by ppi, and are .5ohm stable, and 800 watts rms!...but they are not worth alot to people who dont know what they are.....and not to many people would pay what i want for them either...lol...even if they did know what they are looking at...anyways..."

So far that's two sources claiming this old brute can pump out some serious power.


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## PPI Master (Feb 22, 2011)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Just read this on the caraudio.com forum
> 
> "Re: Will Amps ever become high value collectible art?
> will amps be collectable art?...i don't know about art , but yes the very best older amps ppi/rf/lanzar/ etc.. are very collectable, ........to me they are anyways....but everybody has there own hobbies. like the post on page 2, the guy loves his optimus amps! i would consider them not worth it but he likes them...nothing wrong with that...lol............shoot i have a very old 4 channel class A pyramid amp that is in mint condition. is it worth alot of $$$ ??? of course not , but to me its a thing of wonder .....lmao
> ...


So you have two quantity of this same mystery amp? You mention "i have 2 lanzar pro plus 200's" 
Just so you know,my proplus 200 also missing the topside silk screening. Wonder who did the silkscreening? Hard to believe USA made, but the topcoating of these Lannzars is weird. It's not slick but rather more like powder... so I can see nomenclature rubbing off easily.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

PPI Master said:


> So you have two quantity of this same mystery amp? You mention "i have 2 lanzar pro plus 200's"
> Just so you know,my proplus 200 also missing the topside silk screening. Wonder who did the silkscreening? Hard to believe USA made, but the topcoating of these Lannzars is weird. It's not slick but rather more like powder... so I can see nomenclature rubbing off easily.


The guy I quoted has two of them, I don't.

And yeah, the paint on these things are pretty odd. It's like textured paint lol.
Mine is in bad shape so I'm probably going to sand it down and paint it with a nice old school exotic color like Linear Power did, draw up a nice logo and have it made into a sticker.


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