# Difference between subs (Morel/ Audiofrog/ Focal vs Fi/ Sundown/ Incriminator



## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

Hello,

There isn’t many car audio events in Atlanta, GA so I don’t get to hear different subs. I have owned, in trunk cars with ski pass or fold down seats, JL Audio 12w1,12w3, some $50-75 Kicker, pioneer, & infinity 12’s. I currently own Incriminator Audio Lethal Injection 12” But getting an itch for new sub and trunk build with new car (2015 Infiniti Q40 ski pass, no bose ) 

The 2 12w3 (06) were ported & hit lows & highs great. The Incriminator is ported at 32hz, chokes at 65 and up, remember 12w3 extending higher to maybe 80-90hz. Those two sounded the best bass spectrum wise. The Infinity’s 2 12’s sealed played unrefined from 40-80Hz. The 12w1, kicker, & Pioneer all had crap sound in pre fab sealed boxes ( mfr size used )

1. What’s the difference in overall sound reproduction thru the bass frequencies between say a Morel or Audiofrog GB Sub Vs a Fi Neo Q or Sundown X? 

2.) Is a “ SQ “ focused sub like an Audiofrog/ Morel more accurate at reproducing bass frequencies from say 30Hz - 80/90Hz vs a Sundown X/ Fi Q? 
2B.) I see most run these sealed enclosures, How would ported affect the Audiofrog/ Morel/ Illusion sub? 

3. I see that most SQ focused companies subs are more sensitive, needing less Watts to perform, does this affect the sub’s sound reproduction? 

Thanks


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

the audiofrog gb series loves ported from what I've read and that's coming from people i' think did there homework. the morel subs are very good but pricy to get the output you might be used to..hell af is pretty pricy if you pay close to retail. the fi q is a really nice mix of both, but like any sub, box is key to getting the sound you want.


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

Lycancatt said:


> the audiofrog gb series loves ported from what I've read and that's coming from people i' think did there homework. the morel subs are very good but pricy to get the output you might be used to..hell af is pretty pricy if you pay close to retail. the fi q is a really nice mix of both, but like any sub, box is key to getting the sound you want.


Thanks for the feedback. From my experience having a spec built box ( sealed or ported ) for the specific sub definitely helps. Yes Morel/ Focal/ Illusion/ AF GB subs are pricey but so are Sundown Audio, Stereo Integrity, DC. 

I have never had a mid tier to top of the line SQ sub. Going from entry level kicker to even a 12w3 is decent/ vast jump in bass reproduction quality. From memory the 12w3’s seemed to be the most even output wise

I really want to explore more subwoofers. I wish there was an easy way to test different subs. With each sub having different T/S parameters, sensitivity,& box parameters idk how a apples to apples could be done. 

Any other uses have experience with “ SQ “ focused companies subs vs “ SPL “ focused companies subs and how the bass compares? What makes a sub a SQ sub ?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Really nothing separates SQ from SPL subs, except maybe distortion, but we tolerate a lot of distortion at low frequencies, before it bothers us. Different subwoofers will be optimized in different enclosures, so they can sound very different, but sub bass is very simple compared to higher frequency sound. A cheap sub, in the right box can sound every bit as good as a much more expensive sub, as long as it's used withing it's limits.


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

I’m running 2 12” AF GB subs IB firing through my rear deck and they are butter smooth and effortless. I would highly recommend if possible for you. Plus, we all know what Andy’s customer service is like...


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

beak81champ said:


> I’m running 2 12” AF GB subs IB firing through my rear deck and they are butter smooth and effortless. I would highly recommend if possible for you. Plus, we all know what Andy’s customer service is like...


Ok cool, what other subs have you used before?

I have never heard or used Infinite Baffle subwoofer. Only ported and sealed. Do you prefer IB over all other applications? Does this make the trunk the box essentially? 

I have a stock Q40 ( renamed G37) and it has a big hole in the rear deck tray.. was thinking of doing a 6th order thru the ski pass and rear deck tray hole but maybe a 4th order ported thru ski pass may be better. No way to test other than to build the boxes ?? 

Honestly, I keep reading Andy CS is wonderful. I had questions, then an issue come up and it took him a month & a half month to respond to 5 different emails after my purchase of the GB series. Before purchase, yes, he was always available. Crutchfield has Amazing customer service. They handled everything asap and wanted to send brand new tweets to me same day before I shipped anything back!!!


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

gijoe said:


> Really nothing separates SQ from SPL subs, except maybe distortion, but we tolerate a lot of distortion at low frequencies, before it bothers us. Different subwoofers will be optimized in different enclosures, so they can sound very different, but sub bass is very simple compared to higher frequency sound. A cheap sub, in the right box can sound every bit as good as a much more expensive sub, as long as it's used withing it's limits.


That’s awesome thanks. Which subs do you run in your setup, the “ SQ “ based , illusion/ morel/ AF companies or Fi/ Sundown/ SI/ Digital Designs ” SPL “ based companies? 

Im thinking out loud but distortion causes overtones would fool the ear into thinking that sub is “ louder “ & “ producing “ more bass “ ( harmonic distortion ) this could be a big factor in what the user hears. 

Aside from QTS ( T/ S parameters) what else determines a sealed box sub vs ported box sub and what makes a sub better suited for either? 

Consensus seems to be the enclosure is what makes or breaks the sound quality and bass output. This confirms what my ears told me. I like the JL 12w3 & Incriminator Lethal injection the most b/c they had custom spec built Boxes & they performed & sound the best.


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

You can calculate EBP (efficiency bandwidth product) by dividing the FS by the QES. A lower number (lower than about 60) means it will probably work better in a sealed enclosure, and a higher number indicates it might work better in a vented enclosure. You can generally look at QTS to determine the same thing - high QTS for sealed, low QTS for vented. Anything with a QTS over about 0.7 is probably not ideal unless you have a very specific and narrow bandwidth to cover. Remember though that these guidelines are only if you're looking for a relatively small enclosure and smooth response.

As for your original question - subs with high excursion, beefed up soft parts, and large coils (more geared toward SPL) tend to not have much "upper" bass while subs geared more for efficiency (tight motors, lighter soft parts) tend to have more "upper" bass but lack on the super low end since they typically don't have much excursion capability. This isn't always true though.

Before considering a 4th or 6th order enclosure you should not that those enclosure gain efficiency by giving up bandwidth. A really deep-digging 4th order probably won't play much above ~50hz for example. If you're looking for a high-bandwidth design without giving up a ton of overall SPL consider a a plain vented enclosure. Because the sub is acting as a direct radiator above tuning you get the benefit of playing as high as the sub can go (vs a 4th order enclosure for example where the sub is acoustically filtered above the tuning frequency), plus you don't need as much excursion capability down around tuning because the sub isn't' directly responsible for radiating the sound (the port does that).


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

ChaseUTB said:


> Ok cool, what other subs have you used before?
> 
> I have never heard or used Infinite Baffle subwoofer. Only ported and sealed. Do you prefer IB over all other applications? Does this make the trunk the box essentially?
> 
> ...


Yes, the trunk becomes the box. My trunk is 11.3 cu, and yes I prefer IB over boxes. To me, the bass is just a presence in my car, it doesn’t seem like it’s being played by an instrument. Sorry, it’s hard to explain. You are one of very few people I’ve heard that hasn’t had stellar CS from Audiofrog. I have heard lots of other subs, including Illusion, Morel, Hybrid, Focal, etc., and I’ll stick with the Frogs for now...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ChaseUTB said:


> Honestly, I keep reading Andy CS is wonderful. I had questions, then an issue come up and it took him a month & a half month to respond to 5 different emails after my purchase of the GB series. Before purchase, yes, he was always available. Crutchfield has Amazing customer service. They handled everything asap and wanted to send brand new tweets to me same day before I shipped anything back!!!


Andy has some health concerns, so you might have caught him at a bad time. I watched your video on how you stripped the screws on the GB15's...glad that Crutchfield gave you a do over. I have owned the GB15 in the past and that set screw situation needs to beefed up in my opinion.


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

miniSQ said:


> Andy has some health concerns, so you might have caught him at a bad time. I watched your video on how you stripped the screws on the GB15's...glad that Crutchfield gave you a do over. I have owned the GB15 in the past and that set screw situation needs to beefed up in my opinion.


In my opinion the screws on the GB25's and GB10's are just as bad. I eventually had to solder directly to both leads on both mids...not a preferred thing to do...but it works. If the screws on the GB10 aren't in far enough the trim ring won't fit...if they're tightened too much they crush/cut the speaker wire...honestly spade terminals would've been better.

Buuuuut the speakers do sound great.

I wonder how the GB12 would stack up against an Audiomobile MASS 12...I have thought about getting a GB12...but I have a handfull of the Audiomobiles.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

ChaseUTB said:


> That’s awesome thanks. Which subs do you run in your setup, the “ SQ “ based , illusion/ morel/ AF companies or Fi/ Sundown/ SI/ Digital Designs ” SPL “ based companies?
> 
> Im thinking out loud but distortion causes overtones would fool the ear into thinking that sub is “ louder “ & “ producing “ more bass “ ( harmonic distortion ) this could be a big factor in what the user hears.
> 
> ...


I was (the car was stolen and gutted, and I haven't gotten to the sub stage of the new build yet) running 2 Acoustic Elegance SBP 15's. They were excellent, low distortion subs that worked great IB. You are absolutely right about the perceived loudness of a sub with higher distortion. It's what most people get used to, so people like extra distortion from their subs, since they seem louder. I will say though, if you are able to get the output that you want, while keeping distortion low, the subs will disappear into the music. Harmonic distortion will make the subs sound louder, but the high frequencies will also draw your attention to the subs. Sub frequencies are non-localizable, but the high frequency harmonics are not. Too much high frequency content and the subs will always sound like they're behind you (or wherever they are physically installed).


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

SPLEclipse said:


> You can calculate EBP (efficiency bandwidth product) by dividing the FS by the QES. A lower number (lower than about 60) means it will probably work better in a sealed enclosure, and a higher number indicates it might work better in a vented enclosure. You can generally look at QTS to determine the same thing - high QTS for sealed, low QTS for vented. Anything with a QTS over about 0.7 is probably not ideal unless you have a very specific and narrow bandwidth to cover. Remember though that these guidelines are only if you're looking for a relatively small enclosure and smooth response.
> 
> As for your original question - subs with high excursion, beefed up soft parts, and large coils (more geared toward SPL) tend to not have much "upper" bass while subs geared more for efficiency (tight motors, lighter soft parts) tend to have more "upper" bass but lack on the super low end since they typically don't have much excursion capability. This isn't always true though.
> 
> Before considering a 4th or 6th order enclosure you should not that those enclosure gain efficiency by giving up bandwidth. A really deep-digging 4th order probably won't play much above ~50hz for example. If you're looking for a high-bandwidth design without giving up a ton of overall SPL consider a a plain vented enclosure. Because the sub is acting as a direct radiator above tuning you get the benefit of playing as high as the sub can go (vs a 4th order enclosure for example where the sub is acoustically filtered above the tuning frequency), plus you don't need as much excursion capability down around tuning because the sub isn't' directly responsible for radiating the sound (the port does that).


Ok this is awesome info! Thank you! Yes I realized that after playing around with some random 4th order bandpass ideas that the bandwidth would be less but 3-6db more ouput. So yeah the opposite direction I am seeking. I want more bandwidth. So this leaves sealed. The Qts Of the woofer is .58 and the manufacturer recommends 1.4 sealed but 2.5 cubed ported. 

My Sub is in a ported 32 Hz 2.5 cube box. May need to build a new one with higher tuning to achieve the bandwidth I would like or look at a more “ musical, higher bandwidth sub “ if there is such a thing. 

I wonder how some Audiofrog subs would be ported? Idk bandwidth wise maybe they would cover 30- 80hz...

Maybe it’s me but I feel Subs that have higher sensitivity have a little more bandwidth. All the crap level and mid level infinity/ kicker seems to do better in the 45-80hz region whereas the JL and IA crush 30-65 like no tomorrow! 

Thanks again for your feedback!


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

gijoe said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> > That’s awesome thanks. Which subs do you run in your setup, the “ SQ “ based , illusion/ morel/ AF companies or Fi/ Sundown/ SI/ Digital Designs ” SPL “ based companies?
> ...


That’s great feedback as well. Thank you. The harmonic overtones can definitely cause shifting of the image. My issue is bandwidth or should I say it was in my last trunk with fold down seats. 

You would think having adequate electrical to push that 1300 watts Rms to one Sub would have the sub boogie/ Slap/ pound / etc. I do know I had some voltage dips on sine type synth bass but something in the 60 and Up was really frustrating. Idk the infinity entry level subs ( sealed ) nailed that 50-80 chest / ear flapping bass but no lows. ( Same fold down seats ) 

New car has no fold down seats only a ski pass thru so that’s the main preface of this thread. I’m concerned about bandwidth and output but willing to give up some output for more bandwidth. 

Guess it’s time to build a sealed box and see if that’s what I need ? Or switch the approach and look at different woofers. 

If anyone is in Atlanta And is interested in Car Audio let’s meet up. Car audio scene here is weak which is shocking considering this is ATL! 
Thanks for the feedback!


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

beak81champ said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> > Ok cool, what other subs have you used before?
> ...


Do you always run Infinite Baffle with all the subs you have tried? Which are you running the GB/ GS / G subs ( forgive me if you already stated ) 
I have the cut out in my rear deck where the bose sub is supposed to be. ( stock no nav) So IB could actually be something not that hard to try. 

I really like to hear and feel the music. Does the IB sub have similar output to a sealed box as well as wider bandwidth? I like sealed, right now I’m ported & tuned to 32Hz, I think that’s too low though after talking with the builder. His spec sheet said 2.5 cubes 32hz tune a year or so ago, but when I spoke with them recently he said 35-37 May have been better... ( well geez let me grab a sledgehammer and knock a few inches off her ??? ) 

Does IB affect the power handling of the sub at all? 

Idk maybe its just me or my email lol. 
I have emailed lots of car Audio companies with sales inquires and rarely hear back, very odd. 

Thanks for the feedback


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

miniSQ said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I keep reading Andy CS is wonderful. I had questions, then an issue come up and it took him a month & a half month to respond to 5 different emails after my purchase of the GB series. Before purchase, yes, he was always available. Crutchfield has Amazing customer service. They handled everything asap and wanted to send brand new tweets to me same day before I shipped anything back!!!
> ...


Hey there, thanks for watching the video. Yes very thankful for Crutchfield ( real customer service no questions asked ) Yes I can’t stand anything set screw. Even fuse holders, distro blocks etc lol.

Very sad to hear Andy is sick, hope he gets better soon! ?

For what these drivers cost, the design is kinda cheap & not thought out. I told the installers doing my estimates about the set screw stripping and they already experienced it. May DIY my install now after estimates ??? ($25 wood charge for an amp rack, $550 for big 3 upgrade ) I have done HU swaps and amps and sub but never active system. 

Both places asked where I got the AF GB components, was kinda odd the way they asked. When I said crutchfield they didn’t say anything else. Kinda weird/ odd. 

Have a good one!


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

ChaseUTB said:


> Do you always run Infinite Baffle with all the subs you have tried? Which are you running the GB/ GS / G subs ( forgive me if you already stated )
> I have the cut out in my rear deck where the bose sub is supposed to be. ( stock no nav) So IB could actually be something not that hard to try.
> 
> I really like to hear and feel the music. Does the IB sub have similar output to a sealed box as well as wider bandwidth? I like sealed, right now I’m ported & tuned to 32Hz, I think that’s too low though after talking with the builder. His spec sheet said 2.5 cubes 32hz tune a year or so ago, but when I spoke with them recently he said 35-37 May have been better... ( well geez let me grab a sledgehammer and knock a few inches off her ??? )
> ...


I’m running 2 GB 12’s and you can definitely feel them...


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ill say this about Ib. You can get plenty of output from one 12 or 15 on 1kish power but in my car. My output is 28-40ish hz and then plummets. Im not sure id have a balanced midbass system if i didnt have 10s in the front.

I cant say this about other cars cuz i have seen FR charts for them.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Ill say this about Ib. You can get plenty of output from one 12 or 15 on 1kish power but in my car. My output is 28-40ish hz and then plummets. Im not sure id have a balanced midbass system if i didnt have 10s in the front.
> 
> I cant say this about other cars cuz i have seen FR charts for them.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Two fi ib3 15s.









Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

I have run ib in the past with idmax15 and dual esotar1200 to me I love Ib but it does seem to have a total diffrent sound than ported or sealed it is way more efficient in the lows than sealed I am now running ported with dual audiofrog gb12d4 and I am happy I think the problem with ib and sq subwoofer is alot of people are not use to such low distortion bass it takes some getting use to but once u do it really is awsome how it just perfectly blends with the front stage allso I find that most people play there subs way to loud for an sq type system I love bass just not unproportionate bass all so I think one thing that separates and sq subwoofer from and spl besides distortion is the moving mass sq subs have much less allowing you to pick up more detailed bass notes and respond to the signal faster


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## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

It’s all in the box. The generic specs will not work in every install. Every car will have different peaks and holes. A little EQ can go a long way there.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Two fi ib3 15s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


why does yours roll off so much under 30hz? The two 15's (AE in my case) in my car are flat from 10hz to 50hz. 

a side note about IB specific subs, they tend to be far more efficient than the typical sealed/ported variety, not to mention the SPL specific subs. While not high efficient by pro-audio standards, they are usually in the 90-92 range, while the average car sub is in the 82-85, maybe 87 range.

If anyone tells you that you need more than 500 watts for an SQ setup on your subs, walk away. That's nonsense. UNLESS you want to pound around at 120db+, then fine, throw power at them. You might want more than a few hundred for headroom or occasional "fun" mode, but you don't _need_ it for sq.

In my car I've calculated my subs, at 90db-ish listening levels (which contrary to belief is quite loud) are using less than 10 watts each. Full tilt they might hit 100 watts, give or take, in the sq tune. That's turning them down 12db in the dsp. The amp provides up to 300w each.

Even when I had a JL 13W7, sealed, in a SQ tune it saw a max of 300 watts (out of 1800 I had available) full volume. Yes I could crank up the output on the sub, but it sure as hell wasn't SQ anymore, it was rattle the hell out of the car mode at that point. 

As another example, there is a car at my house that is fairly well known in the comp scene that has two 12's. Each 12 has about 180 watts max, and they certainly don't ever see that much and it sure doesn't skimp on the bass. It is one of the very top cars I've ever heard in how the sub bass is reproduced (let alone the rest of the car)


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I’ll say this regarding “SPL vs SQ” subwoofers…

There’s a stigma with SPL that those kind of subs are high distortion drivers, which is really overgeneralized. The SPL guys, the ones that are out to win competitions and whatnot, are as concerned – if not _more _concerned – with distortion as the SQ guys. For the SPL competitors, distortion is a sign of a compression and compression means lessened output. To those guys every 1/10th of a db makes a difference. The real difference seems to be in the power handling of an SPL sub which is typically higher than a sub not geared for that specific task. Beyond that, ultimately what drives performance is what most folks have already said: the right enclosure for the woofer. Obviously factoring in your output desires with necessary enclosure performance is going to be the determining factor in how one subwoofer performs vs another. And from there it's install (building a sturdy enclosure and placement of said enclosure) and tuning (using t/a, levels, phase and eq to fight the effects of the car's destructive nature on an otherwise excellent enclosure/subwoofer design).


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Two fi ib3 15s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This response from 40-80hz doesn't look out of line with the typical 12dB/octave rise in response from cabin gain. The plateau around 30hz could be various factors; maybe some sort of cancellation, maybe absorption, maybe loss, maybe the natural roll-off (qts/fs combo) of the drivers in their 'enclosure' ... and/or a combo of some of these. I couldn't say for sure without further testing. But this kind of stuff is typical in subwoofer response. And the response > 40hz is pretty much on par with what I'd expect. Heck, if anything I'd say you're lucky because you have no dip at 70/80hz like I do with my sub playing by itself (stupid car!).


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

ErinH said:


> This response from 40-80hz doesn't look out of line with the typical 12dB/octave rise in response from cabin gain. The plateau around 30hz could be various factors; maybe some sort of cancellation, maybe absorption, maybe loss, maybe the natural roll-off (qts/fs combo) of the drivers in their 'enclosure' ... and/or a combo of some of these. I couldn't say for sure without further testing. But this kind of stuff is typical in subwoofer response. And the response > 40hz is pretty much on par with what I'd expect. Heck, if anything I'd say you're lucky because you have no dip at 70/80hz like I do with my sub playing by itself (stupid car!).


I agree with over 40hz. Mine dips at 60-ish  I've not seen a drop off like that on the low end though.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

The low end comes back when i start opening windows. So theres that.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

ErinH said:


> I’ll say this regarding “SPL vs SQ” subwoofers…
> 
> There’s a stigma with SPL that those kind of subs are high distortion drivers, which is really overgeneralized. The SPL guys, the ones that are out to win competitions and whatnot, are as concerned – if not _more _concerned – with distortion as the SQ guys. For the SPL competitors, distortion is a sign of a compression and compression means lessened output. To those guys every 1/10th of a db makes a difference. The real difference seems to be in the power handling of an SPL sub which is typically higher than a sub not geared for that specific task. Beyond that, ultimately what drives performance is what most folks have already said: the right enclosure for the woofer. Obviously factoring in your output desires with necessary enclosure performance is going to be the determining factor in how one subwoofer performs vs another. And from there it's install (building a sturdy enclosure and placement of said enclosure) and tuning (using t/a, levels, phase and eq to fight the effects of the car's destructive nature on an otherwise excellent enclosure/subwoofer design).


So are you saying a “SPL” sub is better built? If so why did the wanky “SQ” branded stuff cost more? Same can be said for the amps. They are built to take massive abuse but they tend to cost way less.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

SnakeOil said:


> So are you saying a “SPL” sub is better built? If so why did the wanky “SQ” branded stuff cost more? Same can be said for the amps. They are built to take massive abuse but they tend to cost way less.


A better built sub is a better built sub. Regardless of it's generically-derived-niche-hobbyist-stated type. That's what I'm saying.

But there's always something 'better' in some form or fashion. It doesn't mean it's applicable to a person's install or needs, though.


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## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

ErinH said:


> A better built sub is a better built sub. Regardless of it's generically-derived-niche-hobbyist-stated type. That's what I'm saying.
> 
> But there's always something 'better' in some form or fashion. It doesn't mean it's applicable to a person's install or needs, though.


Well said.


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

nstaln said:


> miniSQ said:
> 
> 
> > Andy has some health concerns, so you might have caught him at a bad time. I watched your video on how you stripped the screws on the GB15's...glad that Crutchfield gave you a do over. I have owned the GB15 in the past and that set screw situation needs to beefed up in my opinion.
> ...


Sad that all the set screws are doing this. I really don’t like them at all. 

I have been reading about the GB12 and the voice coils are set up differently than a normal dvc sub. They have switches that change the impedance on the side so if you order a GB12D2 you get 2 ohms, . 5 ohms By wiring in parallel. I’m used to wiring a DVC 2 Ohm parallel and getting 1 ohm final load. 

Also the Audiofrog GB12 can be a drop in replacement in my current box that’s 2.5 cubes tuned to 32 Hz so I’m saving up.. wish i could hear one.. Have a good day!


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

beak81champ said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> > Do you always run Infinite Baffle with all the subs you have tried? Which are you running the GB/ GS / G subs ( forgive me if you already stated )
> ...


Ahhh you have the 60/40 fold down seats ... . don’t but I do have the cut out for the studio on wheels bose sub in the rear deck. 

I been readin up on those GB12! They are a drop in replacement and can go in my box I have now with the amp I have now. 

I’m such a dumbass ... I read the wrong specs for the box when having it built.. I suspect giving the T/S parameters supplied though would have the box at the manufacture recommended specs? Idk think I screwed up and that’s what is affecting my bandwidth. 

Mfr recommends for my Lethal Injection 1.6-2.5 cube ported, tuned at 35 Hz amd I told the box builder 32 Hz Tuning 2.5 cube ( max ) ??‍♂ Sure enough Inprob should have gone 2 cube 35Hz and would be good to 70Hz? 

Imma measure my port and see what it is and that will help me see.


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Ill say this about Ib. You can get plenty of output from one 12 or 15 on 1kish power but in my car. My output is 28-40ish hz and then plummets. Im not sure id have a balanced midbass system if i didnt have 10s in the front.
> 
> I cant say this about other cars cuz i have seen FR charts for them.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


What subs and how much power. I do have access to IB .. the Bose Studio on wheels has a IB cut out in my Infiniti Q40. I am running 1300-1500 W RMS amp. I want to increase my bandwidth as well, I think inscrewd up having the box built and read the wrong max specs cube wise and wrong tuning frequency ?‍♂


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

ErinH said:


> I’ll say this regarding “SPL vs SQ” subwoofers…
> 
> There’s a stigma with SPL that those kind of subs are high distortion drivers, which is really overgeneralized. The SPL guys, the ones that are out to win competitions and whatnot, are as concerned – if not _more _concerned – with distortion as the SQ guys. For the SPL competitors, distortion is a sign of a compression and compression means lessened output. To those guys every 1/10th of a db makes a difference. The real difference seems to be in the power handling of an SPL sub which is typically higher than a sub not geared for that specific task. Beyond that, ultimately what drives performance is what most folks have already said: the right enclosure for the woofer. Obviously factoring in your output desires with necessary enclosure performance is going to be the determining factor in how one subwoofer performs vs another. And from there it's install (building a sturdy enclosure and placement of said enclosure) and tuning (using t/a, levels, phase and eq to fight the effects of the car's destructive nature on an otherwise excellent enclosure/subwoofer design).


This is awesome thanks! I agree also distortion will blow their subs a lot quicker for to the power they are putting into them ( SPL system) Some sundown can go wicked low in small sealed / ported boxes. 

Also with amps, yes I prefer to buy cheaper “ SpL “ Korean amps with my budget currently. 

Would a smaller ported box increase bandwidth with decreased output? How does the port length or size affect the tuning? From my understanding a bigger box needs a bigger port to achieve lower tuning, so a smaller box with a smaller port achieves a higher tuning? I could be wrong lol. Thanks


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

The current box my Lethal Injection is in is 2.9 cubic ft. after displacement ??.. Supposed to 2.5. The port length and opening are incorrect for its size. The port length is 26.25” and opening is 28” which is the recommended spec for a 2.0 cubic ft box. The port opening should be 35” and 26” inches long ( .25” isn’t huge more length isn’t huge but still ) ...

My too big of box has a too small port opening, what does this cause? ****ty bandwidth? Choked output? 

Can anyone explain the impedance switch on Audiofrog GB12? I am used to always using DVC 2 ohm wired parallel for 1 sub @ 1 ohm at amp or DVC 4 ohm parallel for 2 subs @ 1 ohm at amp. 

If I want a 1 GB12 with a 1 ohm final load at amp do I need The D2 or D4?

From the manual, the GB12D2 wired in parallel when set to 1 ohm on each coil would give me .5 ohm wired parallel at amp. Would .5 ohm with box rise would hurt the amp? Amp is a Twisted Sounds 1.3k Korean class D. 

Does anyone have their GB12 in a 2.0 cube ported box? 

Which is better for bandwidth and output, a GB12 in a ported 2.5 cube box or 2 Subs in a 2.5 cube box ? 

I assume the 2 will hit harder ( more output ) or due to more cone area.. so many decision and questions. 

How come some parameters are different on the GB12D4 vs D2? 

If these go un answered I will prob start a new thread on this post!

Thanks

Chase 

Thanks


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

ChaseUTB said:


> *1.* Would a smaller ported box increase bandwidth with decreased output? *2.* How does the port length or size affect the tuning? *3.* From my understanding a bigger box needs a bigger port to achieve lower tuning, so a smaller box with a smaller port achieves a higher tuning? *4.* I could be wrong lol. Thanks


1. Yes and no. (lots of variable to consider, but port size and vent velocity start to become concerns)
2. Fb = √[ 3.66x10^(-8) * D²/((Lv + 0.732*D) * Vb) ]
3. Yes and no. Ports have two main characteristics: equivalent cross sectional area (port area, generally speaking), and physical length. So just saying "bigger" doesn't have a meaning in this context because "bigger area" and "bigger length" cause two mutually exclusive results in the tuning (see above equation).
4. Yes and no.


The reason some of my responses are vague is because there are more variables and resulting changes that you need to consider. A picture is worth a thousand words, and in this case that "picture" is/are graphs from enclosure modeling software so you can literally see what is happening to the frequency response. Download WinISD or WinISD Pro from their facebook page. It's free and you will be able to answer to yourself basic questions like those all on your own. Lots of people here can guide you. It will save you time on simple questions like changing port areas/lengths, changing enclosure volumes, wondering what happens to system tuning frequencies when making the aforementioned changes, how does the port air movement change with those changes, etc.


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

Oscar said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> > *1.* Would a smaller ported box increase bandwidth with decreased output? *2.* How does the port length or size affect the tuning? *3.* From my understanding a bigger box needs a bigger port to achieve lower tuning, so a smaller box with a smaller port achieves a higher tuning? *4.* I could be wrong lol. Thanks
> ...


Thank you for the in depth response. I honestly have so many other things to do box design calculations seems over my head. I have never designed a box or even built one.

My port opening does not meet 35” opening it is 28”. The length of the port should be 26” however the port is actually 25”. 

This is a slot port box not aero so no fixing it lol. 

I will be getting box plans that include graphed output and frequency response if Said woofer (s ) in the box. I plan on getting a sub with more sensitivity. Just without hearing the AF subs & other companies idk what to get? Thinking ported box since I still like loud bass but I know 2 subs sealed can be louder than one ported. 
Thanks!


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## cgm246 (Jun 27, 2011)

Both places asked where I got the AF GB components, was kinda odd the way they asked. When I said crutchfield they didn’t say anything else. Kinda weird/ odd. 

1. They liked them...
2. They never thought they would sound sooooo good!!!


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