# Pioneer Deh-80prs owners, Can I go Tweeterless Active?



## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere but I cannot find anything via search.

With the Pioneer deh-80prs (already ordered), the highpass crossover settings for highs only goes down to 1.25k I believe, so how does one run a full range 3" off of this headunit?

I was wanting to run my 7" midbass from 70-250hz approx
and a Legatia L3se from 250hz-20khz

So, can I do this?

I believe I will be wanting to run this in Network mode and not standard mode since I'm getting rid of my rears and still want to use time alignment and crossover/slopes capabilities on the headunit.
Is there some kind of a "pass" setting on the crossover to accomplish this and if so what would my settings look like?

I have a JL600/4 that will be powering my front stage components. Will I just have to use the amps crossovers and not the headunits? Then I would lose fine tuning of crossover freq's/slopes I believe? Maybe I'm overthinking this..

Forgive me if I am missing something but I have a sinking feeling like I'm not going to be able to do this or I haven't thought this out as thoroughly as possible.

Help please and Thanks!


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## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

I am wondering the same thing. I think you would have to modify the HU somehow so the high pass would be at 250 and not 1.25. dunno if it can be done. I hope so, as i want to do the same thing as you.


only other way to make it work would be to run the mid bass on the sub channel of the HU and then run a pass through from your midbass amp to you sub amp. and do that lower crossover on the amp. TO have this work you'd need the right features on the amps. Hopefully they'd have a 24db slope for the midbasses high pass at 63 or so.

But, I'd rather know if modifications could be made to the HU to drop the high's high pass from 1.25 to 250.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Hate to burst your bubble, but you guys can't use a wide bander with the head unitt crossovers.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1589980-post842.html


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## diatribe (Aug 11, 2008)

What kind of crossover does your amplifier have? You may be able to run the Pioneer full-range and use the amps x-over.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Set the HPF to 1250Hz -6dB slope and see how it goes..... If you lost some details, LPF your midbass higher to close the gap.... 
A good midbass shall able to play upto 1000Hz without much problems.....


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## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

kyheng said:


> Set the HPF to 1250Hz -6dB slope and see how it goes..... If you lost some details, LPF your midbass higher to close the gap....
> A good midbass shall able to play upto 1000Hz without much problems.....


Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using a widebander in the first place? The only reason I would use a wideband driver is to get the 250~300hz and up frequency range above the dash and have a driver in the door doing pure midbass (80-300hz).

Just my thoughts but if you're going to HP the fullrange drivers at 1250hz you would probably be better using a standard 2-way mid/twt setup?


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Will it be? Suggest that you try it out first.... 
Can tweeters play low at <2000Hz and still sounds good?
Next, how well a widebander can perform in the range of 250-1000Hz?
Then, midbass cannot play >1000Hz?
I'm using a 3-way+sub system and I swing along tweeterless of fullrangeless sometimes, where tweeterless I feel better(but sound stage kinda narrow) than fullrangeless.....


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

What if I run the headunit in Standard mode and do below?

I agree with Stockley.rod I was kind of wanting to run the 3" full range, well nearly full range from 250hz or so all the way up.

*With my JL600/4 the crossovers go up to 500hz low or high, so I could run the 3" on say the front speaker channels high passed at 250hz, and my midbass I could low pass at 250hz and use an FMOD I suppose to block any freqs lower than say 70hz or so from going to the midbass.

*_Would I run my headunit in Standard mode then??_ Run the 3" fullranges off of Front outputs, and the Midbass off of Rear Outputs?? What functionality would I lose then from the headunit?


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## 2wheelie (Jul 30, 2009)

In standard mode, yes. You loose some eq, ta ability bit it can be done. 

Now here is another idea for you... The software in this unit _can_ be updated through the sd card. Contact Pioneer and ask if they plan to or will make changes.


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## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

kyheng said:


> Will it be? Suggest that you try it out first....
> 
> _I'm not sure, I was basically asking a question because I've never used a point source driver from 250hz and up. My brother has a set of L4 that I will be playing with soon i'm sure. _
> 
> ...





ScottyGreen said:


> What if I run the headunit in Standard mode and do below?
> 
> I agree with Stockley.rod I was kind of wanting to run the 3" full range, well nearly full range from 250hz or so all the way up.
> 
> ...


Using the amp's crossover section would work also. I have yet to use the 80PRS but as long as you don't lose T/A and the L/R eq I can't see you missing anything else.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

Arrgh...

I will probably end up going with my original plans then of running a 7" or 8" midbass that will play up to 2-2.5k with my dyn md102 tweets.

One of the main reasons I wanted this deck was for T/A and crossover functions of being able to play around with slopes etc in an active 2 way setup.

Guess I can't have both worlds of a widebander AND t/a etc... (welcome to car audio) I suppose... !

@2wheelie or others...
My next question is this then, 

_IF I ran in Standard Mode, what would I lose in terms of T/A and EQ ?_


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Nope, you still can, is just that you want to lock yourself up on midbass LPF 250Hz and fullrange HPF 250Hz will sound good.....


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

In Standard Mode:
Can I time align my fullrangers Left and Right ? Or will it treat BOTH fullrangers as Front, and BOTH Midbasses as rears for time alignment?


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## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

2wheelie said:


> Now here is another idea for you... The software in this unit _can_ be updated through the sd card. Contact Pioneer and ask if they plan to or will make changes.


that would be cool, and that was my question.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

Alrighty... I _think_ I can do this actually...

If I run in Standard mode with the fullrangers on the front, and Midbasses on the rear outputs and subs to subs of course I can select PASS on the slope settings to run a fullrange signal to my 4 channel amp. I will select PASS on the slope for both the front and rears (fullrangers and midbasses)

Using my amps crossovers I will HP the fullrangers at 250hz, and LP the midbasses at 250hz and install an FMOD on the REAR rca input before it goes into the amp so I can cut freq's below approx 70-80hz from going to my midbasses. I think they make an FMOD around 70hz HP anyway... will have to check on that next... This way my rears, er Midbasses will be getting approx 70hz to 250hz freq's only, and my fronts, er Fullrangers will be getting 250hz on up to wherever they can play at their highest (18k or so I believe)

Correct me if I'm going down a wrong path here someone, I may be missing something! I will be losing my ability to change xover slopes with the HU by doing this, but I will retain my ability to T/A everything (I think so anyway)


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## beef316 (Dec 12, 2006)

Nevermind....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## 2wheelie (Jul 30, 2009)

Scotty, with a combination of xover from your amp and the 80prs in standard mode, you could get this done.

I would have to read the manual again, but I think you will loose the 16 band L/R eq in standard mode. You also only have HP filters for both front and rear. For the T/A, you might loose the ability to fine tune for distance and only be able to choose "front left" for example.

The full manual is available on the Pioneer website btw. It's a pdf and you can look all this up.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

I think I'm going to have to scrap using an FMOD to do this for the midbasses to play from 70-250hz.

After reading a bunch of reviews at parts express people complain of signal degradation using these... bummer...

I don't see a way to get 70hz to 250hz to my midwoofers with this HU. I could have them play everything from 250hz down and use a bass blocker inline on them, that is the only thing I can think of at this point... I've heard bass blockers rob power too so not sure if that is a good choice either...

hmmm, thinking about scrapping this whole tweeterless design altogether...


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

ScottyGreen said:


> hmmm, thinking about scrapping this whole tweeterless design altogether...


Good call, in my opinion. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

seems like you only really have 3 good options while maintaining the L/R eq and TA.

1)scrap the tweeterless setup
2) buy a p99
3) find a way to modify the 80prs to drop the HP from 1.25 to 250hz.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

You really don't want a 250 Hz HPF on wideband drivers. I use mine crossed at 500 Hz with a 12 dB/octave slope and I don't listen to music crazy loud. It gets loud enough for my tastes without the 2" widebanders breaking up. I would get similar performance at 1kHz on 6dB/octave. 1250 Hz on a 6 dB slope really isn't that bad of a crossover point. kyheng makes a good point. You have to try it before you say it's no good.


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## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

trumpet said:


> You really don't want a 250 Hz HPF on wideband drivers. I use mine crossed at 500 Hz with a 12 dB/octave slope and I don't listen to music crazy loud. It gets loud enough for my tastes without the 2" widebanders breaking up. I would get similar performance at 1kHz on 6dB/octave. 1250 Hz on a 6 dB slope really isn't that bad of a crossover point. kyheng makes a good point. You have to try it before you say it's no good.



B.S. Depends completely on the driver. I have tried many drivers and many x over points in many installs. It completely depends on the driver and install. For instance the HAT L3SE will play from 200-250hz @24db slope to 20khz and win world championships doing so. Same could be said, about a few other drivers too.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

Reread my post and kyheng's post and see where this thread was going. Sometimes we just need to try things. Experimenting is better than just looking at numbers and trying to decide what will sound better.


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## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

darrenforeal said:


> B.S. Depends completely on the driver. I have tried many drivers and many x over points in many installs. It completely depends on the driver and install. For instance the HAT L3SE will play from 200-250hz @24db slope to 20khz and win world championships doing so. Same could be said, about a few other drivers too.


I'm with you on this one.

I'm not saying that a HPF on a wideband at 1250hz can't work. Just My understanding is the purpose of using the wideband approach is to keep the midbass playing within its omnidirectional range (less than 250hz-ish) and keep the midrange and imaging cues to one point source location. 

Just my thoughts, Maybe I read something wrong elsewhere.

EDIT: Speaking of crazy XO's. I remember reading the build log on Bob Morrow's Tacoma a while back. I think he used a crazy HP crossover on a set of HAT L4's at like [email protected]/oct. That setup always stuck out in my mind. I would have loved to hear that rig.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

trumpet said:


> Reread my post and kyheng's post and see where this thread was going. Sometimes we just need to try things. Experimenting is better than just looking at numbers and trying to decide what will sound better.


Glad to see someone knows what I trying to say.....
In hobby that we enjoy much, it is very subjective and no absolute answer, some like it this way while some like it another way....
Just to get the sweet spot already takes us lots of effort, not to mention the enclosure...
If really need a fullrange speakers to really shine on 250-1000Hz, I'll ditch the midbass and build a tapped horn enclosure for the fullrange. This will be more logic.... With a sub to back up the gap, I'll call it the day....


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## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

stockley.rod said:


> I'm with you on this one.
> 
> I'm not saying that a HPF on a wideband at 1250hz can't work. Just My understanding is the purpose of using the wideband approach is to keep the midbass playing within its omnidirectional range (less than 250hz-ish) and keep the midrange and imaging cues to one point source location.
> 
> ...


yeah the L4SEs and L3SE shine doing that. I have had my L3s crossed at [email protected]/oct. Sounded very good. But it seems that [email protected]/oct in my install, and it most cases, sounds better.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

_*PROBLEM SOLVED:*_
I'm not sure why I got stuck on trying to use an FMOD to do anything on this...

I guess sleeping helps... this is actually an easy fix...* 

All I have to do is run in Standard mode:
For Fullrange: Set HP Front on HU to PASS and use amp xover HP at 250hz 
For Midbasses: Set HP Rear to 63hz on HU and use my amps xover LP at 250hz

Fullrange will get 250hz and up with the ability to adjust higher if needed
Midbass will get 63 to 250hz (up to 500hz) if needed.

EQ remains same independent 16 band L/R
T/A stays the same and can adjust manually still.
I can change slopes between 12db/24db at amp for pairs fullrange/midbass
Lose ability to adjust phase of speakers (no biggie, can be done at amp)
Lose ability to adjust level of speakers independently, (no biggie, fader/bal in tact to adjust between fullrange and midbasses levels)

Wow, what a difference a fresh set of eyes/brain makes...

Now all I have to do is make some great looking pods for the Legatia L3se in my sails! That may be easier said than done, but
looking forward to the end product.

*Feel free to move this to "dumb questions" thread anytime... 
(although someone wanting to go tweeterless with a JL HD600/4 may find this helpful in thinking it through)

Thanks to those that had thoughtful insight into this and were trying to _help me_ think this through!


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## siippou (Dec 30, 2013)

Sorry to bumb an old thread, but did this work for you (or anyone else for that matter)? 
As I see you didn't go the L3se route and there doesn't seem to be definitive solution to this 1.2kHz crossover point dilemma for L3se 








ScottyGreen said:


> _*PROBLEM SOLVED:*_
> I'm not sure why I got stuck on trying to use an FMOD to do anything on this...
> 
> I guess sleeping helps... this is actually an easy fix...*
> ...


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