# Digital Audio Player for FLAC, with DAC and SPDIF output???



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I am having a hard time finding this ^^^. 

Does anyone make an all-in-one? I have decided to compile a FLAC library and I am hoping to be able to store files, connect it directly to my MiniDSP's spdif input and mount it to my dash to use the control functions of the player (volume, skip, etc.).

I do not want to touch my factory h/u, so I can still play CD's, use Bluetooth and Uconnect, etc.

Thanks!


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Sony and Astell&Kern...i think those are the standards.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Ibasso and fiio have units with optical out.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Let's not forget HiFI MAN. Oh, looks like iBasso is coming out with a new flagship soon. With dual micro SD. Yes, others have done it already, but I really like iBasso products. They released their dx80 a few months ago and it seems to be solid. Under $400, Wolfson dac, plays everything from mp3, to every lossless, to dsd.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

But right now, no current iBasso unit has optical out, only coax. The dx100 had both, but it's now a dinosaur.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

I really was looking for one with optical out that could play Spotify as well as stored music. I listen to Spotify %99 of the time and have like 5 saved .flac albums to my name.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> But right now, no current iBasso unit has optical out, only coax. The dx100 had both, but it's now a dinosaur.



My mistake, I confused the 2.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Hard to beat an android device with a usb DAC and usb audio player pro. Use the micro SD slot if it has one for flac storage, or use a usb hub with a thumb drive


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I assume you're using an android phone? IPhone with lightning can serve a digital signal to a head unit with USB and there's apps to handle flac up to 24/192. 

Digital into a dsp would be the best solution, but the op wouldn't need a player with dac then as the dsp would handle the conversion.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks for the answers, guys!

Will these plug right in to my dsp via an SPDIF cable (see input pic)??? Or will I need some sort of converter between them?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

That is coax spdif. So almost any high resolution media player would work. The iBasso dx50 is a small unit with really nice sound, coax and line out and built on headphone amp for portability, uses a Wolfson dac, and reasonably priced. 

iBasso DX50 HD Studio Mastering Quality Music Player with WOLFSON WM8740 192kHz/24-bit DAC [Full USA One Year Warranty from Authorized iBasso Distributor] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J6RVQJM/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_yC6SwbKYXKCTT


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Fiio x7


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> That is coax spdif. So almost any high resolution media player would work. The iBasso dx50 is a small unit with really nice sound, coax and line out and built on headphone amp for portability, uses a Wolfson dac, and reasonably priced.
> 
> iBasso DX50 HD Studio Mastering Quality Music Player with WOLFSON WM8740 192kHz/24-bit DAC [Full USA One Year Warranty from Authorized iBasso Distributor] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J6RVQJM/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_yC6SwbKYXKCTT



Cool, that looks like a great unit... and thanks for the info. So basically any of these Robot Check types of players will work?

What cable/connectors do I need to order??


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> I assume you're using an android phone? IPhone with lightning can serve a digital signal to a head unit with USB and there's apps to handle flac up to 24/192.
> 
> Digital into a dsp would be the best solution, but the op wouldn't need a player with dac then as the dsp would handle the conversion.


UAPP on android can play 32/384 if the dac is up to it. Can you put flacs straight into an iPhone or do they need to run through iTunes first?


Once you have a device or devices to pump out coax spdif, you just run a single rca lead from the spdif out to the spdif in on the minidsp. You'll need to route your outputs to run off the spdif in the software, and you can use say one preset for spdif in and another for analogue rca or high level from your CD player


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Most these players use a mini 3.5mm to coax cable. I'm sure you can find a length online, my dx50 came with a 6" one and that's all I've ever needed. Only for desktop use while at home.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ninetysix said:


> UAPP on android can play 32/384 if the dac is up to it. Can you put flacs straight into an iPhone or do they need to run through iTunes first?
> 
> 
> Once you have a device or devices to pump out coax spdif, you just run a single rca lead from the spdif out to the spdif in on the minidsp. You'll need to route your outputs to run off the spdif in the software, and you can use say one preset for spdif in and another for analogue rca or high level from your CD player


I used to use the Onkyo player app when I had an iPhone. Not sure of its limits, it took enduring I had and played it prefectly. 24/192 and dsf. And yes, to put music in, you'd need to access the player storage thru iTunes. The player could access any media type stored on the phone, but the only way to get 24 bit or dsf on it is thru the app via iTunes. I switched to a Sony phone a month ago and haven't really jumped into what apps play what files. I just know that naively the player won't push audio thru USB into my Alpine 149bt.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Monoprice maybe


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

I used onkyo player as well in an iPhone to play .alac files (Apple lossless) only problem is that iPhones have no expandable storage. 16gb disappears quick with lossless files


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

WiFi hardrive with dlna


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> WiFi hardrive with dlna



I must be getting old. What is this wizardry?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Check it out, a portable hard drive that has built in WiFi. Plug in USB to power it and it creates a wireless network to connect to that your device can read from. 

Seagate Wireless Plus 2TB Portable Hard Drive with Built-in WiFi (STCV2000100) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JSQV44S/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_hS7SwbMXMJK1Z


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Monoprice maybe


I have been looking, those are hard to find. I'll check monoprice.com. Did you say the MX50 comes with one of those?

_*Edit: I checked monoprice and couldn't find one there. I am searching for digital coax to 3.5mm, spdif to 3.5mm, single rca to 3.5mm... Is there a better name for them?*_


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## bugsplat (Nov 7, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Check it out, a portable hard drive that has built in WiFi. Plug in USB to power it and it creates a wireless network to connect to that your device can read from.
> 
> Seagate Wireless Plus 2TB Portable Hard Drive with Built-in WiFi (STCV2000100) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JSQV44S/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_hS7SwbMXMJK1Z


I had one. Douche bag broke my window and stole it. It was nice being able to sync my music at home automatically.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> I have been looking, those are hard to find. I'll check monoprice.com. Did you say the MX50 comes with one of those?
> 
> _*Edit: I checked monoprice and couldn't find one there. I am searching for digital coax to 3.5mm, spdif to 3.5mm, single rca to 3.5mm... Is there a better name for them?*_



http://www.amazon.com/Micca-Premium-SPDIF-Digital-Coaxial/dp/B00V436UQU


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> Check it out, a portable hard drive that has built in WiFi. Plug in USB to power it and it creates a wireless network to connect to that your device can read from.
> 
> Seagate Wireless Plus 2TB Portable Hard Drive with Built-in WiFi (STCV2000100) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JSQV44S/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_hS7SwbMXMJK1Z



Thanks for this info. Gonna look into it for sure. You may have saved me a few Hundo!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

bradknob said:


> Robot Check


Lol! Thanks! I did see that one, but the reviews were pretty bad... It sure is pretty though.


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Hidizs AP100 - much cheaper, but Ibasso50 sucks in sound. New soft update gives also DSD possibility...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

bradknob said:


> Robot Check


I'll order it and see how it works... Thanks


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## Bdub (Dec 16, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> But right now, no current iBasso unit has optical out, only coax. The dx100 had both, but it's now a dinosaur.


The Ibasso DX80 has both coax and optical from its spdif output. It just depends whether you plug in an optical mini plug or a regular 3.5mm plug.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Bdub said:


> The Ibasso DX80 has both coax and optical from its spdif output. It just depends whether you plug in an optical mini plug or a regular 3.5mm plug.


Haven't bought the 80 yet to really be able to speak of it. Its on my list for the next week or so. 

As for the cable, yes the iBasso die include a 6in one. But you can search 3.5 to rca coax and you should find several. Ranging everywhere from a few bucks to a few children.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Well, I got the cable, connected everything, changed the routing and inputs to digital in the dsp, but NO sound. 

I played music off of my laptop through the 3.5mm jack to the DSPs spdif input. So I tried it with my little amp/dac and still nothing. 

Any ideas???


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Well, I got the cable, connected everything, changed the routing and inputs to digital in the dsp, but NO sound.
> 
> I played music off of my laptop through the 3.5mm jack to the DSPs spdif input. So I tried it with my little amp/dac and still nothing.
> 
> Any ideas???


Does the input meter in the software show any kind of signal coming with music playing? Or does it just show infinity?

With the laptop 3.5mm coax output, is that also a headphone output? Maybe you need to configure the output in either the propriety onboard sound control panel or under playback devices. I'd set it for 16/48 at least initially


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> *Does the input meter in the software show any kind of signal coming with music playing? Or does it just show infinity?*
> 
> With the laptop 3.5mm coax output, is that also a headphone output? Maybe you need to configure the output in either the propriety onboard sound control panel or under playback devices. I'd set it for 16/48 at least initially


Good point, thanks, I didn't think to check the input meter. I'll try that tomorrow. 

The 3.5mm is a headphone output, but I also ran that same output connected through my amp/dac to the dsp with same results... But I'll check the laptop too.

The MiniDSP manual says this, I am not sure what a PCM is...
_*"Note: the digital input accepts only a stereo PCM digital signal. It does not accept encoded or multichannel
digital audio."*_

I really appreciate all your input!


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

As long as windows is set up to output 2 channel stereo it should work fine, mine does anyhow. If you have an AV receiver in your house with a coax spdif input that might be a good way to confirm it's putting out the right signal.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> As long as windows is set up to output 2 channel stereo it should work fine, mine does anyhow. If you have an AV receiver in your house with a coax spdif input that might be a good way to confirm it's putting out the right signal.


No, I don't have one. I have a feeling that it isn't putting out the right signal... Plus, when checking into the Fiio E17 I used between the latop and dsp, it doesn't have a digital output either.

Now I am not sure what to try. Grrrrrrrr


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> No, I don't have one. I have a feeling that it isn't putting out the right signal... Plus, when checking into the Fiio E17 I used between the latop and dsp, it doesn't have a digital output either.
> 
> Now I am not sure what to try. Grrrrrrrr


Which Cable or connector you are using to input signals to minidsp

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

piyush7243 said:


> Which Cable or connector you are using to input signals to minidsp
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


This one --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V436UQU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

So no sound from laptop 3.5? Is a headphone jack not a digital. Very few laptops have digital out. Asus outputs optical thru the headphone out, but you'll need to switch the audio out in Windows to support it. The cable you're using is digital coax and your dsp is trying to sense a digital signal, while am analog is coming through it.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

The e17 converts the digital and outputs analog. Either for headphones or a line out I believe, to use another amplifier.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> This one --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V436UQU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00


Can you confirm exactly what media player it is that you're trying to get coax spdif to your minidsp 6x8 with?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

What digital sources do you have to use?


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

ninetysix said:


> Can you confirm exactly what media player it is that you're trying to get coax spdif to your minidsp 6x8 with?


Oh, sorry you said it loud and clear a few posts up. Doesn't look like it does spdif out.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I


nineball76 said:


> So no sound from laptop 3.5? Is a headphone jack not a digital. Very few laptops have digital out. Asus outputs optical thru the headphone out, but you'll need to switch the audio out in Windows to support it. The cable you're using is digital coax and your dsp is trying to sense a digital signal, while am analog is coming through it.


I checked and my laptop does not have a digital out... I'll probably just have to get the Fiio X3 and hope it works.

My droid smart phone would have an analog output too, right?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> What digital sources do you have to use?


Apparently I don't have any! Lol


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Smart phones only way to output digital would be thru USB. The headphone jack is simply analog.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

A dsp with audio over USB would be a huge upgrade these days. Toslink is physically limited to 24/96, coax limits 24/192, USB works at least up to 32/384 and dsd.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Smart phones only way to output digital would be thru USB. The headphone jack is simply analog.


So if I can find a connector with micro USB and coax I should be able to connect to the dsp with my phone?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

If your dsp has toslink in, you could use a USB otg cable to this 
Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro II USB Analog & Digital Audio Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036VO4X4/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_Q3qVwbXPX32TY


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

And this app 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> And this app
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro


Cool, thanks.

I downloaded the Onkyo app already, I'll check that one out, too.

Edit: it looks like I need that app for audio to play via USB...


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Honestly, toslink is the better choice for a vehicle, zero chance of noise getting into the line across a fiber optic cable.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

I picked up one of these to use with my minidsp 6x8, works both from my laptop for tuning or my phone for flac/tidal/uapp/streaming.

Somehow I don't think 32/384 will ever take off outside of studio recording.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I can't say for certain if that USB to toslink will work on a phone, being the phone USB has limited voltage but it's the only choice I think. 

The fiio or iBasso, or another digital dap is the best solution.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ninetysix said:


> I picked up one of these to use with my minidsp 6x8, works both from my laptop for tuning or my phone for flac/tidal/uapp/streaming.
> 
> Somehow I don't think 32/384 will ever take off outside of studio recording.


That would probably work good. Looks like it has a power in?


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Cool, thanks.
> 
> I downloaded the Onkyo app already, I'll check that one out, too.
> 
> Edit: it looks like I need that app for audio to play via USB...


You don't need any app to play over usb (whether digital or analogue) it's natively supported since 5.0 (and can work on earlier versions too). Limited to 16/48 though unless you use uapp for up to 32/384.

The main reason I use uapp (at 16/44.1, which is what my source material is) is that I was having issues with my DAC playing in mono but not every phone/DAC is having that issue, but certainly can happen on a nexus 6p running 6.0+


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> That would probably work good. Looks like it has a power in?


Nope just usb in, headphone toslink and spdif out. A few bucks more you can get one with an aluminium case but I just taped the PCB up to take up less space


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> Honestly, toslink is the better choice for a vehicle, zero chance of noise getting into the line across a fiber optic cable.


It would be nice to have toslink, but the DSP that both I and the OP have has coax.

I'm using a decent quality coax rca cable from dash to DSP in the trunk and I can't hear any issues. The DAC and the DSP both have power supplied isolated from the cars 12v system. I have another DAC with coax spdif in, maybe there's an easy way to confirm if the signal is bit perfect... But I'm quiet confident that there are bigger fish to fry 

I was planning on using RG6 coax to be extra safe, but meh. Another option is to use a usb extension lead and have the DAC in the trunk, with a short lead or even a male-male rca plug, though id feel more confident with a long rg6 lead than a long usb lead


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

ninetysix said:


> I have another DAC with coax spdif in, maybe there's an easy way to confirm if the signal is bit perfect...


Actually, turns out there is an easy way! RightMarkAudioAnalyzer


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> This one --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V436UQU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00


Gotha, if you are using second generation FIIO players they dont work with this cable.

You have to use something like this which has 4 pins on the 3.5mm

Read this 
What is the coaxial digital adapter cable pinout on the X3II and X5II? - Portable DAP - FiiO Forums - Powered by Discuz!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Honestly, toslink is the better choice for a vehicle, zero chance of noise getting into the line across a fiber optic cable.





ninetysix said:


> You don't need any app to play over usb (whether digital or analogue) it's natively supported since 5.0 (and can work on earlier versions too). Limited to 16/48 though unless you use uapp for up to 32/384.
> 
> The main reason I use uapp (at 16/44.1, which is what my source material is) is that I was having issues with my DAC playing in mono but not every phone/DAC is having that issue, but certainly can happen on a nexus 6p running 6.0+





ninetysix said:


> Nope just usb in, headphone toslink and spdif out. A few bucks more you can get one with an aluminium case but I just taped the PCB up to take up less space





ninetysix said:


> It would be nice to have toslink, but the DSP that both I and the OP have has coax.
> 
> I'm using a decent quality coax rca cable from dash to DSP in the trunk and I can't hear any issues. The DAC and the DSP both have power supplied isolated from the cars 12v system. I have another DAC with coax spdif in, maybe there's an easy way to confirm if the signal is bit perfect... But I'm quiet confident that there are bigger fish to fry
> 
> I was planning on using RG6 coax to be extra safe, but meh. Another option is to use a usb extension lead and have the DAC in the trunk, with a short lead or even a male-male rca plug, though id feel more confident with a long rg6 lead than a long usb lead


Guys, thanks so much for all the answers and help!! I am trying to catch up and understand it all... I think I have confused myself.


So if I pick up the USB DAC thing I will be able to connect my phone to the MiniDSP and play hi-res files, right?

What cable do I need to run from the DAC to the DSP and what cable do I need to connect my phone to the DAC? I am not sure which is the "IN" and which is the "OUT". Lol


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

If you get a cheap usb DAC with coax spdif out and a usb on-the-go (OTG) lead that goes between the DAC and the phone, then yes.

If CD quality flac is high enough resolution for you, then yes again 

this is what an OTG lead looks like


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> If you get a cheap usb DAC with coax spdif out and a usb on-the-go (OTG) lead that goes between the DAC and the phone, then yes.
> 
> If CD quality flac is high enough resolution for you, then yes again
> 
> this is what an OTG lead looks like


I'll get the same DAC that you have, but I might be confused which side is the input and which is the ouput: PCM2704 USB DAC to s PDIF Sound Card Decoder Board 3 5mm Analog Output | eBay 

And I connect that using this cable: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/3400234-post17.html to the DSP

I connect my phone to the DAC with a micro usb to usb cable?




Sorry, I don't know why this is confusing the **** out of me!


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

I noticed everyone seems to be looking for a player that they can use in their vehicle to play FLAC music. I know that there are a couple of companied that are making Head units that play FLAC. I know for a fact that Pioneer 4200NEX does play FLAC. I am not sure how good of DAC in comparison to the ones you have been speaking of but it does seem to be fair good. I'm sure that the quality of the DAC is of DEX-99Prs or Clarion DRZ-9255, but it should suffice considering most will be running it through a DSP.

Just my $0.02


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> I'll get the same DAC that you have, but I might be confused which side is the input and which is the ouput: PCM2704 USB DAC to s PDIF Sound Card Decoder Board 3 5mm Analog Output | eBay
> 
> And I connect that using this cable: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/3400234-post17.html to the DSP
> 
> ...


So a OTG adaptor goes into your phones charging socket, then a usb A-B cable (same as most printer cables, probably not included with the cheap DAC) goes between the OTG and the DAC, then a single rca cable (pretty much any kind, even cheap ones that come free with a DVD player) from the rca socket on the DAC to the rca socket on the minidsp labeled spdif.

Try it with a laptop first, usb A-B lead from laptop to DAC and rca from DAC to minidsp (make sure the usb DAC is the default device in output devices when right clicking the volume icon in windows) to get it routed and tuned right then fire up the phone.

It'll be a piece of cake once you have the right gear


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Black Rain said:


> I noticed everyone seems to be looking for a player that they can use in their vehicle to play FLAC music. I know that there are a couple of companied that are making Head units that play FLAC. I know for a fact that Pioneer 4200NEX does play FLAC. I am not sure how good of DAC in comparison to the ones you have been speaking of but it does seem to be fair good. I'm sure that the quality of the DAC is of DEX-99Prs or Clarion DRZ-9255, but it should suffice considering most will be running it through a DSP.
> 
> Just my $0.02


I just don't like the idea of going digital>analogue>digital>analogue no matter how good the DACs are. I don't see the point in buying the best head unit on the market if you still need an external DSP! With phone to DAC to DSP it's digital>digital>digital>analogue

Sure phone or tablet UIs can be a bit clunky while driving compared to head units, but they're getting there. You can use a joycon EXR to interface with your steering wheel buttons for skip play pause or just about anything you can think of.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> So a OTG adaptor goes into your phones charging socket, then a usb A-B cable (same as most printer cables, probably not included with the cheap DAC) goes between the OTG and the DAC, then a single rca cable (pretty much any kind, even cheap ones that come free with a DVD player) from the rca socket on the DAC to the rca socket on the minidsp labeled spdif.
> 
> Try it with a laptop first, usb A-B lead from laptop to DAC and rca from DAC to minidsp (make sure the usb DAC is the default device in output devices when right clicking the volume icon in windows) to get it routed and tuned right then fire up the phone.
> 
> It'll be a piece of cake once you have the right gear


Ok, now I get it! Thanks!

I think this is the same DAC you have but with a shell: PCM2704 USB DAC USB Power Sound Card Decoding Deck Raspberry Pi w Fiber Coaxial | eBay


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> So a OTG adaptor goes into your phones charging socket, then a usb A-B cable (same as most printer cables, probably not included with the cheap DAC) goes between the OTG and the DAC, then a single rca cable (pretty much any kind, even cheap ones that come free with a DVD player) from the rca socket on the DAC to the rca socket on the minidsp labeled spdif.
> 
> Try it with a laptop first, usb A-B lead from laptop to DAC and rca from DAC to minidsp (make sure the usb DAC is the default device in output devices when right clicking the volume icon in windows) to get it routed and tuned right then fire up the phone.
> 
> It'll be a piece of cake once you have the right gear


Would the 3.5mm cable I already have Amazon.com: Micca Premium SPDIF Digital Coaxial Audio Cable - 3.5mm (1/8") to RCA, 3ft, Compatible with FiiO X3, X3II, X5: Electronics work from the DAC to the DSP??


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Ok, now I get it! Thanks!
> 
> I think this is the same DAC you have but with a shell: PCM2704 USB DAC USB Power Sound Card Decoding Deck Raspberry Pi w Fiber Coaxial | eBay


Yep



DavidRam said:


> Would the 3.5mm cable I already have Amazon.com: Micca Premium SPDIF Digital Coaxial Audio Cable - 3.5mm (1/8") to RCA, 3ft, Compatible with FiiO X3, X3II, X5: Electronics work from the DAC to the DSP??


No the 3.5 on the DAC is purely for headphones, for spdif you need one of these which you might have in a drawer somewhere:

RCA Composite Video Subwoofer Digital Coax Cable 3ft 6ft 12ft 25ft Cmple | eBay


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> Yep
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, gotcha. Would the 3.5 be an analog output, is that why it won't work?


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Ok, gotcha. Would the 3.5 be an analog output, is that why it won't work?


Yep, on that cheap DAC anyway

What sort of phone do you have? Pretty much any android from the last year or two should be fine, I can't really speak for iPhones I think they might need a powered hub to go between the DAC and the phone, though there might be a DAC out there that has a lightening connector but it sure won't start at $7


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Just saw something today that might be applicable here.. Sound Blaster E5. Sorry if it's already been covered. Looks promising for a portable or small method to get 1's and 0's from USB to SPDIF.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm using a miniDSP MiniStreamer from Android phone /tablet to my miniDSP C DSP. 

Have also used my fiio e10

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> Yep, on that cheap DAC anyway
> 
> What sort of phone do you have? Pretty much any android from the last year or two should be fine, I can't really speak for iPhones I think they might need a powered hub to go between the DAC and the phone, though there might be a DAC out there that has a lightening connector but it sure won't start at $7


I have Motorola Moto X 2015 model android.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I'm using a miniDSP MiniStreamer from Android phone /tablet to my miniDSP C DSP.
> 
> Have also used my fiio e10
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


That's pretty cool.. So just from a fidelity standpoint is the output quite clean?


----------



## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I'm using a miniDSP MiniStreamer from Android phone /tablet to my miniDSP C DSP.
> 
> Have also used my fiio e10
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Was there a trick to getting it to work? What phone/tab? No luck with mine


----------



## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Babs said:


> That's pretty cool.. So just from a fidelity standpoint is the output quite clean?


All spdif devices should be equal, they spit out the same 1s and 0s that are in the file being played. So not just "clean" or "very clean" but "bit perfect"


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

The MiniStreamer didn't work from my z3 compact running 5.1 but it did work form my note 10.1 running 4.4.4 haha

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> I have Motorola Moto X 2015 model android.


Then you're golden. If you don't have much of a flac collection and have lots of cellular data on your plan then a subscription to tidal HiFi might be just the ticket. I think it's about 20 bucks a month and it's cd quality flac, uses about 300-400MB for a 45 minute drive. You can also pre-download albums if your connection at home is a lot better.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> Then you're golden. If you don't have much of a flac collection and have lots of cellular data on your plan then a subscription to tidal HiFi might be just the ticket. I think it's about 20 bucks a month and it's cd quality flac, uses about 300-400MB for a 45 minute drive. You can also pre-download albums if your connection at home is a lot better.


Damn, you are awesome! Thanks again for all the help and tips!

I'll probably download them at home. I only have 2GB of data in my plan.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Damn, you are awesome! Thanks again for all the help and tips!
> 
> I'll probably download them at home. I only have 2GB of data in my plan.


No worries fella


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

ninetysix said:


> Was there a trick to getting it to work? What phone/tab? No luck with mine


Umm yeah the tablet had to be restarted with the mini streamer in it already, and it has to have enough power (running it through usb hub). 

I've read there's an app, usb debugger or something, which people have used successfully to get their devices running so I might try that. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Umm yeah the tablet had to be restarted with the mini streamer in it already, and it has to have enough power (running it through usb hub).
> 
> I've read there's an app, usb debugger or something, which people have used successfully to get their devices running so I might try that.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Yeah I tried all that to no avail  oh well $7 DAC works a treat. I'll definitely use the mini streamer for a loop back test one day tho


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Did I miss something or are you suggesting phone > dac >dsp? That defeats the idea of going full digital into the dsp, let the dsp handle the dac. A dac outputs analog. 

Unless you're calling that board a dac, it's not exactly. USB in to spdif out requires no digital to analog conversion.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Yeah I don't call it a DAC, it's a usb audio to spdif card. And did UAPP say that Linux recognised the device but Android couldn't initialize it? 

The fiio e10 is a DAC but has an spdif digital pass through also 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> Did I miss something or are you suggesting phone > dac >dsp? That defeats the idea of going full digital into the dsp, let the dsp handle the dac. A dac outputs analog.
> 
> Unless you're calling that board a dac, it's not exactly. USB in to spdif out requires no digital to analog conversion.


Good call, the only analogue signal is the minidsp outputs to the amps. Calling them DACs is a misnomer, but DAC is largely how they are referred to


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm still waiting to get my nexus 7 lte to test if the usb chips will work on that, otherwise I might grab that 7 dollar one you have. Would be interested to see how much jitter there is 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Yeah I don't call it a DAC, it's a usb audio to spdif card. And did UAPP say that Linux recognised the device but Android couldn't initialize it?
> 
> The fiio e10 is a DAC but has an spdif digital pass through also
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Yeah it said that, tried rebooting with it connected, a powered hub, stopped short of trying an external 5v power supply to the mini streamer. Strangely, when I pull the plug out uapp suddenly fires up because it detected a usb sound card.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Yeah so that all happens on my z3c and it never works, but strangely on my tablet it does that, then I close UAPP and play from Spotify and it works! Weird as hell

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Just wanted to throw another dap at you to look at. Onkyo dp-x1. $900 on amazon but under $800 if you're patient and shop around a bit. Dual micro SD cards, dual sabre dacs. 2.5mm balanced headphone out, digital out via USB. That's great for dsd users. But I think that is the only digital out. Still reading up on it, but it's possibly something I might pick up next week.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> Just wanted to throw another dap at you to look at. Onkyo dp-x1. $900 on amazon but under $800 if you're patient and shop around a bit. Dual micro SD cards, dual sabre dacs. 2.5mm balanced headphone out, digital out via USB. That's great for dsd users. But I think that is the only digital out. Still reading up on it, but it's possibly something I might pick up next week.



I've had my eye in that unit as well! Go ahead and buy it and let us know how it is. ASAP, lol

Rakuten has it for $669...

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/e-earphone/item/4573243090276/?s-id=borderless_recommend_item_en


A lot of the guys at head-fi.org have bought from there and claim it's legit


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

bradknob said:


> I've had my eye in that unit as well! Go ahead and buy it and let us know how it is. ASAP, lol
> 
> Rakuten has it for $669...
> 
> ...


Only thing I'm concerned about is the shipping time. Everywhere seems to say 1-2 month lead time. 

Since I have nearly zero need for spdif out on a dap, I'll be selling my iBasso dx100 and dx50 to overcome the cost of the upgrade. ?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Oh, it supports dlna over WiFi too? Yep, definitely ordering this.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> Only thing I'm concerned about is the shipping time. Everywhere seems to say 1-2 month lead time.
> 
> Since I have nearly zero need for spdif out on a dap, I'll be selling my iBasso dx100 and dx50 to overcome the cost of the upgrade.



Damn, didn't hear about that lead time. Eff that.

May be interested in the dx100 of you're getting rid of it. You can run Spotify on it correct?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> I'll be selling my iBasso dx50...


Hmmm... :idea2:


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

bradknob said:


> Damn, didn't hear about that lead time. Eff that.
> 
> May be interested in the dx100 of you're getting rid of it. You can run Spotify on it correct?


I'll try it later today and let you know. 

For reference dx100 will probably be $350 shipped, dx50 $150 shipped. The dx100 had some work done a few months ago. The charging jack was replaced and they put a new battery in it. Both have original boxes.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

To update this thread:
Yesterday, I finally took the time to try and connect directly to the MiniDSP (digitally via spdif) with a cheap DAC and my phone. IT WORKS! 

I have the Onkyo app on my phone and some FLAC songs that I got from HDTracks and it worked great. I was using the EQ settings from my existing tune, so I'll have to go through and re-tune it with this new source and see how it sounds compared to the factory HU.

It's great that the MiniDSP remote has 4 settings that can be switched on-the-fly, so I can move between the HU and this new connection with the touch of a button!

Thanks again to the guys that helped me figure this out!!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

If you were listening and tuning to cd level content and your source didn't have built in dsp, you should not need to re-tune for a different source.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

sqnut said:


> If you were listening and tuning to cd level content and your source didn't have built in dsp, you should not need to re-tune for a different source.


Thanks for the input! I didn't know that... 
If that's the case, then CD level from the HU sounds better than FLAC from my phone to the DSP. 
Not sure what I am doing wrong... but that would be rather disappointing. Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> Thanks for the input! I didn't know that...
> If that's the case, then CD level from the HU sounds better than FLAC from my phone to the DSP.
> Not sure what I am doing wrong... but that would be rather disappointing. Lol


*Correction to my previous post. ^^^ *

The sound is considerably better with my phone connected to the dsp! I had the inputs wrong and it was playing mono! Lol :blush:

The new connection needed very little EQ adjustments to sound great, compared to the amount needed with the factory HU... 

I'm super pumped about this right now!!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

The apple AV adapter into ViewHD HDMI to Optical converter blew my head unit absolutely out of the water feeding a Helix DSP. Best Fidelity and output I could ask for. Was spot on awesome, I thought. It's going in with Helix plain 2-knob remote as a permanent setup if I can get this rascal done.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs said:


> The apple AV adapter into ViewHD HDMI to Optical converter blew my head unit absolutely out of the water feeding a Helix DSP. Best Fidelity and output I could ask for. Was spot on awesome, I thought. It's going in with Helix plain 2-knob remote as a permanent setup if I can get this rascal done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you tried the parts express extractor? What made you go with the Viewhd?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Timelessr1 said:


> Have you tried the parts express extractor? What made you go with the Viewhd?



It was there. Didn't have a preference really. Very likely similar/same boards. I imagine either would get the job done. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs said:


> It was there. Didn't have a preference really. Very likely similar/same boards. I imagine either would get the job done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Just checking bc yours is like $8 cheaper.. And if doing two cars ;-) little things add up


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just checking bc yours is like $8 cheaper.. And if doing two cars ;-) little things add up



My test was on wall power. Did fine. I plan on using either a lighter adapter or a 5vdc power supply. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs said:


> My test was on wall power. Did fine. I plan on using either a lighter adapter or a 5vdc power supply.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm going the route of the 5v power supply.. Seems small enough to mount right on top of the extractor. Currently I'm running the pure i20 and a larger power supply.... Would like to minimize the footprint


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Babs said:


> The apple AV adapter into ViewHD HDMI to Optical converter blew my head unit absolutely out of the water feeding a Helix DSP. Best Fidelity and output I could ask for. Was spot on awesome, I thought. It's going in with Helix plain 2-knob remote as a permanent setup if I can get this rascal done.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very cool! I am going to play with this set-up some more, but I can tell already that it's gonna be killer...

Next step is to get a DAP and mount it permanently to the dash, at which point my head unit will just be sitting there for looks and bluetooth phone calls.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

I've got a nexus 7 going into a hifime sabre u2 asynchronous dac then optical to my helix p six dsp mmmmmm

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I've got a nexus 7 going into a hifime sabre u2 asynchronous dac then optical to my helix p six dsp mmmmmm
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


I don't know what all that is, but it sounds pretty cool to me! Lol


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Timelessr1 said:


> I'm going the route of the 5v power supply.. Seems small enough to mount right on top of the extractor. Currently I'm running the pure i20 and a larger power supply.... Would like to minimize the footprint


I have one of the MP3Car DCDC-USB supplies.. I'm going to see if I can use it to power both the toslink converter and power a lightning cable to charge back through the AV adapter to charge the phone. That would be slick. They're both 5v (I think) so don't see why not. Or just use a lighter charger for the charge-back, since it'd be plug and play from a lighter port in the console.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs said:


> I have one of the MP3Car DCDC-USB supplies.. I'm going to see if I can use it to power both the toslink converter and power a lightning cable to charge back through the AV adapter to charge the phone. That would be slick. They're both 5v (I think) so don't see why not. Or just use a lighter charger for the charge-back, since it'd be plug and play from a lighter port in the console.


I was tempted to use that 5v 3amp power supply to power both the apple AV adapter as well as the hdmi extractor. It seems the extractor only draws 1amp... And the iPad charging is 2.1....


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

DavidRam said:


> I don't know what all that is, but it sounds pretty cool to me! Lol


Nexus 7 is an android tablet which I've put a custom Kernal onto (modifies the way the os behaves and adds some abilities). 
The sabre dac is a usb sound card which has an optical toslink 24/96 output also. 
The helix p six dsp is an amp that has 6x120w rms and an 8 channel digital processor inbuilt with optical, high level and low level inputs and low level outputs to feed something like a sub amp. 

I'm using 2 12v to 5v 3 amp regulators. One to power a usb hub and one to provide power for the tablet. Both are connected to a relay that's triggered from the ignition power so they don't constantly drain power 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Nexus 7 is an android tablet which I've put a custom Kernal onto (modifies the way the os behaves and adds some abilities).
> The sabre dac is a usb sound card which has an optical toslink 24/96 output also.
> The helix p six dsp is an amp that has 6x120w rms and an 8 channel digital processor inbuilt with optical, high level and low level inputs and low level outputs to feed something like a sub amp.
> 
> ...


I'd consider performing a battery bypass on your nexus before summer rolls around. Should be pretty straight forward, I've done it with a nexus 5 and a 2012 nexus 7 using a cheap 12-3.7v power supply. I've had my 2013 nexus apart twice now for lcd replacement and it looked about as easy from memory. Maybe 4v would be better if you can get it as the battery gauge always said it was on 4-5%. 

You can use tasker to turn the screen off when it detects USB audio being disconnected (from the relay killing the power to the switch) and to kill all apps, put it in flight mode etc. Battery drain was negligible even after a week of no driving and a weak car battery. I also had one of the steering wheel buttons assigned to the power button via a joycon exr.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Ok, so I have an issue with getting power to the DAC...

When I use my phone as a source connecting it with a USB cable it powers the DAC and the music plays fine...
BUT, when I connect my audio player to the DAC it doesn't get any power from the player and of course doesn't work.

From what I can tell the audio player does not have any power coming out of it's USB, whereas my phone does send power through that same connection.

What are my options???

I spliced into the cable (usb that connects source to the DAC), determined the power wires (red+, black-) and connected a separate USB cable which is plugged into the Jeep to try and add some power. This did send power both to the DAC and the audio player, but it also cut the audio out and just left a hissing sound, no music...

For some reason the same USB port that charges the audio player, does not have any power coming out of it with which to power the DAC...

Any ideas???


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Something like this 
SinLoon 30cm USB 2.0 a Power Enhancer*Y*splitter*Hub*Adapter*Cable,*1 Female to 2 Male Data Charge Cable Extension Cord*(usb F-2M) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DZQEIJE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_BJtNxbA6MRQRK


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Something like this
> SinLoon 30cm USB 2.0 a Power Enhancer*Y*splitter*Hub*Adapter*Cable,*1 Female to 2 Male Data Charge Cable Extension Cord*(usb F-2M) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DZQEIJE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_BJtNxbA6MRQRK


Hmmmmm, not sure if I am wrapping my mind around how to use this thing...

Can you explain, please? 

Btw, the player has a micro USB port and a 3.5mm port. I am pretty certain that the USB port is only for data transfer INto the player and charging the player. There is neither power nor sound coming OUT of the USB port... Does that make any sense?


The DAC only has a USB type B for input... 

Thanks!


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

It let's you add a USB power into your usb connection.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Ok what player? Last I recall you were using your phone i thought?


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

I know you said in your 1st post you did not want to replace your OEM radio, but did you check out this unit from Alpine? You could use a USB stick or music player with it because it plays flac files and plug the rca's into the mini dsp. It will still play cd's too and it has built in Bluetooth. Just a thought.

CD/DAB RECEIVER WITH ADVANCED BLUETOOTH - Alpine - CDE-196DAB


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

knever3 said:


> I know you said in your 1st post you did not want to replace your OEM radio, but did you check out this unit from Alpine? You could use a USB stick or music player with it because it plays flac files and plug the rca's into the mini dsp. It will still play cd's too and it has built in Bluetooth. Just a thought.
> 
> CD/DAB RECEIVER WITH ADVANCED BLUETOOTH - Alpine - CDE-196DAB


The main issue with using a typical head unit (especially a Single Din unit) as a source for playing files off of a USB drive, is the difficulty of Searching, Selecting, and Navigating through the hundreds or thousands of audio files. If you are cool with just doing a simple Shuffle Play of all tracks, or a Genre/Artist/Album, it is fine. Playlists are usually easy as well. But when you want to select particular tracks as you are listening, it can be a PITA.

If you are using an iDevice or Android device, usually Siri or Google Now can do playback via voice commands.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Good point! There's nothing like an iPad or similar with the entire list of tracks and artist with pictures.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Ok what player? Last I recall you were using your phone i thought?


It's just a cheap player, but I would really like to make it work because I really enjoy using it: Xduoo X2 Digital Audio HiFi Mini Music Player OLED Screen MP3 WMA Ape FLAC WAV | eBay

I tried one more thing... I connected the left, right and ground from the audio players 3.5mm output to the appropriate wires on the DAC's USB input and connected the power and ground wires from the Jeeps USB charger. It obviously powered up the DAC, but no sound... 

The only thing I can think of is that I need a DAC that has a separate port for power (that is not integrated into the signal input) and has a 3.5mm input. Does that exist?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

knever3 said:


> I know you said in your 1st post you did not want to replace your OEM radio, but did you check out this unit from Alpine? You could use a USB stick or music player with it because it plays flac files and plug the rca's into the mini dsp. It will still play cd's too and it has built in Bluetooth. Just a thought.
> 
> CD/DAB RECEIVER WITH ADVANCED BLUETOOTH - Alpine - CDE-196DAB


That is a very nice unit, but unfortunately I have to keep the factory HU. This Jeep gets parked unattended with it's top off (and even the doors off) and I can't have anything that would attract a would be thief.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

I think you're not quite full ball on how the DAC is supposed to work. 

Your little music player's usb port will likely only be to charge it and add music to it from a pc. The whole point of your player is that it's a DAC (digital to analogue converter) itself. Digital music files, output as analogue audio signal from the 3.5mm port. 

Trying to send that analogue to a DAC which is expecting a digital input inst going to work. 

The only reason a DAC works from iPhone is the iPhone has hardware and software that knows what to do when it's connected (output audio via USB). 

I'm using an android tablet with a usb dac (it's technically a DAC but also has an optical output which is digital, so I guess I'm using it as a DDC?). The android tablet needs to have the drivers (software that tells the tablet how to control the usb device) in its Kernal (the core of the operating system per se). Even still not all USB DACs will work with all tablets/phones due to the different hardware and software combos out there

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I think you're not quite full ball on how the DAC is supposed to work.
> 
> Your little music player's usb port will likely only be to charge it and add music to it from a pc. The whole point of your player is that it's a DAC (digital to analogue converter) itself. Digital music files, output as analogue audio signal from the 3.5mm port.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your input. I do have a beginners understanding of the DAC & DAP, etc..

The problem is that I need to send a digital signal to my DSP, not an analog signal... I have a PCM2704 DAC that converts the signal from analog to digital (unlike the majority of DACs I have seen that convert digital to analog) and this works perfectly using my Android phone. The reason my phone works with the DAC is that it's micro USB outputs both audio and power, which is what the PCM2704 needs to function. 

However, I am a persistent S.O.B. and I want this cheap little DAP to replace my phone, but the issue is like you said, it does not output power or signal from the micro USB port. I seems to be merely for data transfer and charging and the only output it has is via the 3.5mm jack. 

My plan G (plan B came and went a long time ago, lol) is this thing: Analog L R to Digital SPDIF Coaxial Coax RCA Optical Toslink Audio Converter | eBay
It might work because it has separate ports for power and signal: in theory, I should be able connect the DAP via a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable to the DAC for signal, and power/charge the DAC and DAP via USB... Again, this is just in theory! 

By the time I get this done, I should have a signal that is converted digital-analog-digital-analog about 18 times and sounds about as good as an old cassette left over from the 80s! Lmao!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

*So I'll have this:* Xduoo X2 Digital Audio Music MP3 Player HiFi Lossless LED Screen WMA Ape FLAC | eBay
*Going to this via 3.5mm-RCA:* Analog L R to Digital SPDIF Coaxial Coax RCA Optical Toslink Audio Converter | eBay
*Which is going to this via SPDIF cable:* https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/c-dsp-6x8

I would post pictures, but for some reason I can't anymore...


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Ah so you're actually using an ADC (analogue to digital converter), not a DAC. That's probably caused a bit of confusion! 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> *So I'll have this:* Xduoo X2 Digital Audio Music MP3 Player HiFi Lossless LED Screen WMA Ape FLAC | eBay
> *Going to this via 3.5mm-RCA:* Analog L R to Digital SPDIF Coaxial Coax RCA Optical Toslink Audio Converter | eBay
> *Which is going to this via SPDIF cable:* https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/c-dsp-6x8
> 
> I would post pictures, but for some reason I can't anymore...


I wouldn't do that


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Are you out of analog inputs on your dsp?


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> *So I'll have this:* Xduoo X2 Digital Audio Music MP3 Player HiFi Lossless LED Screen WMA Ape FLAC | eBay
> *Going to this via 3.5mm-RCA:* Analog L R to Digital SPDIF Coaxial Coax RCA Optical Toslink Audio Converter | eBay
> *Which is going to this via SPDIF cable:* https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/c-dsp-6x8
> 
> I would post pictures, but for some reason I can't anymore...



I think you are still a little confused.. It seems the X2 player you are thinking of using only outputs to. 3.5mm ANALOG output only.. Not a digital signal... So in that case you'd go straight into your processor as analog.

If you want to go in digital to your processor you will need to choose a source that has an optical or digital coax


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Ah so you're actually using an ADC (analogue to digital converter), not a DAC. That's probably caused a bit of confusion!
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Confusion is my middle name! Lol



nineball76 said:


> I wouldn't do that


Really?  What's wrong with it??

The only difference from what I have now is the new DAC is not powered with the same connector as the signal... 



nineball76 said:


> Are you out of analog inputs on your dsp?


I have my HU connected through the high level inputs... Not sure if I can use the low level inputs: https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/c-dsp-6x8



Timelessr1 said:


> If you want to go in digital to your processor you will need to choose a source that has an optical or digital coax


Exactly. I would like to go in digital. That is why I ordered the second DAC that I posted a link to above... It should convert the analog from the player to digital via the DAC and send that signal to the DSP... In theory.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok... But why? Why would you want to take the analog signal from the x2 and try to make it digital? Then run it a few feet and have your processor convert it back again to analog?

If you really want a digital signal to put into your processor start from your source with a digital signal out! That's why theres been so much discussion on how to keep the signal out of an iPad or android device as digital...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> Ok... But why? Why would you want to take the analog signal from the x2 and try to make it digital? Then run it a few feet and have your processor convert it back again to analog?
> 
> If you really want a digital signal to put into your processor start from your source with a digital signal out! That's why theres been so much discussion on how to keep the signal out of an iPad or android device as digital...


I'm not sure if I'm following... I DO want a digital signal into my DSP. I'm not converting anything back to analog, I am converting the analog output on the X2 to digital. 

I am already able to send a digital signal from my Android to the DSP using this cheap little DAC: PCM2704 USB DAC USB Power Sound Card Decoding Deck Raspberry Pi w Fiber Coaxial | eBay Which btw, sounds excellent! 
The problem I am now having is that the X2 does not have the capabilities of my phone...


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

I understand what your trying to do....

What I'm confused about is why? Just to simplify it... Let's say the worst sounding signal chain is from a 3.5 phono plug , the medium is rca's and the best digital.. Just for argument sake.

So what your doing is taking the sloppy phono signal and making it a digital version of the sloppy signal? Your better off keeping it sloppy and analog.

What you want is to START digital..and keep it digital into your DSP


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

And please stop calling your analogue to digital converter (adc) a DAC. It's still adding too much confusion to this topic.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Why not look into an Ibasso Dx80?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> I understand what your trying to do....
> 
> What I'm confused about is why? Just to simplify it... Let's say the worst sounding signal chain is from a 3.5 phono plug , the medium is rca's and the best digital.. Just for argument sake.
> 
> ...


I understand and appreciate what you are saying. To do that I would have to buy a very nice digital audio player that has digital outputs, which I plan on getting eventually...
For now I am just trying to work with what I have, and learn something along the way. 
Switching out my factory HU is not an option for me, so I have to work around that... As far as the sound goes, my phone connected through the DAC with cheap USBs sounds way better than the factory HU. 
If all I gain through this effort is the quality of sound that I am getting with my phone, that is a big improvement... Not to mention the storage capacity for lossless files, easy of use and functionality of playing music through the DAP vs. my phone.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> And please stop calling your analogue to digital converter (adc) a DAC. It's still adding too much confusion to this topic.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


I'll try... I learned it from the Chinese listing on ebay, that's what they are calling it! Lol PCM2704 USB DAC USB Power Sound Card Decoding Deck Raspberry Pi w Fiber Coaxial | eBay



ryanougrad said:


> Why not look into an Ibasso Dx80?


Thanks. I'm very familiar with it... 

I need it to have the volume controls on the front and not the sides, due to the way it will be mounted.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Gotcha.. Even as a learning experience, it's not worth taking an already analog signal and converting it to digital just to get your DSP a digital input.

You'd be better off saving your money and time. Maybe even look into keeping your current phones signal digital and mount that somewhere while still keeping your factory radio.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Wait wait wait. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/371599034149?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&_mwBanner=1
This is an ADC, which you're trying to use from your DAP to get a digital input for your DSP. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/400435976234?_mwBanner=1
This is a DAC which is used to get digital from usb etc and output as analogue, but also has digital spdif Coax and optical out and is used by your phone 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Basically what everyone's saying, is by taking your analog and converting it to digital to go into your dsp, you're defeating the entire idea. Your dsp probably has a better adc than the eBay one you're using. Better to have a full digital into the dsp, but of that's not an option just sending the analog in will be as good as if you went analog > adc >spdif > dsp. The way you're doing it now, your spdif is no better than the analog that's coming out of the player.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Wait wait wait.
> 
> PCM2704 USB DAC USB Power Sound Card Decoding Deck Raspberry Pi w Fiber Coaxial | eBay
> This is a DAC which is used to get digital from usb etc and output as analogue, but also has digital spdif Coax and optical out and is used by your phone
> ...



Yes, I have this ^^^. It's the one I'm using to connect my phone directly to the DSP. It's analog to digital.


I ordered this, to have the separate power and signal connections: Analog L R to Digital SPDIF Coaxial Coax RCA Optical Toslink Audio Converter | eBay



*I am really learning alot from you guys, and I appreciate ALL of the input!!! *


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Basically what everyone's saying, is by taking your analog and converting it to digital to go into your dsp, you're defeating the entire idea. Your dsp probably has a better adc than the eBay one you're using. Better to have a full digital into the dsp, but of that's not an option just sending the analog in will be as good as if you went analog > adc >spdif > dsp. The way you're doing it now, your spdif is no better than the analog that's coming out of the player.


Yep, I totally understand that and it makes sense to me now... thanks.

What is exciting to me, is that the sound with this sorta weird connection using my phone and a cheap converter, is much better than my factory HU. And I am able to get this "better" sound with little hassle and investment! 
If I could add the convenience of the little audio player, then I would be pretty freakin happy with it until I pull the trigger on a really good DAP...

Interestingly enough, both the Fiio x3, and x5 have digital outputs, yet both of them are using 3.5mm jacks for that... Is that a bad thing??
FiiO x3 Mastering Quality Music Player w Wolfson DAC WM8740 24bit 192K 6953175760313 | eBay
FiiO x5 High Resolution Lossless Digital Music Media Player | eBay


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

So you are saying that you have this exact unit now??

http://m.ebay.com/itm/400435976234?...%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1070070705386


This unit is not an analog to digital... It's a digital to either analog or digital! Are you using the analog of this unit instead of the digital coax or optical output??


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> So you are saying that you have this exact unit now??
> 
> PCM2704 USB DAC USB Power Sound Card Decoding Deck Raspberry Pi w Fiber Coaxial | eBay
> 
> ...


Yes, I have that exact unit. It's the one that has been working well with my phone, but doesn't work with my DAP...

It is connected with a coaxial/spdif cable to the spdif input on the dsp. On the other side of it I connect my phone with a micro-usb/usb-B cable. Works perfect.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Yep, I totally understand that and it makes sense to me now... thanks.
> 
> What is exciting to me, is that the sound with this sorta weird connection using my phone and a cheap converter, is much better than my factory HU. And I am able to get this "better" sound with little hassle and investment!
> If I could add the convenience of the little audio player, then I would be pretty freakin happy with it until I pull the trigger on a really good DAP...
> ...


Not a bad thing, 3.5 isn't a set in stone type plug. It can be a trs (tip ring shield, stereo analog), it can be a mini toslink, or a mini digital coax. For example, my Asus laptop has a combo 3.5 jack. It can be a normal headphone trs jack or a mini toslink. My iBasso DAPs used individual 3.5 for headphones or various spdif. The fiio probably uses the 3.5 coax, same as this dx50.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Yes, I have that exact unit. It's the one that has been working well with my phone...
> It is connected with a coaxial/spdif cable to the spdif input on the dsp. On the other side of it I connect my phone with a micro-usb/usb-B cable. Works perfect.


So why change this?? You are getting a digital signal straight through from your phone to your DSP. Your phono plug idea would be a total step backwards.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Not a bad thing, 3.5 isn't a set in stone type plug. It can be a trs (tip ring shield, stereo analog), it can be a mini toslink, or a mini digital coax. For example, my Asus laptop has a combo 3.5 jack. It can be a normal headphone trs jack or a mini toslink. My iBasso DAPs used individual 3.5 for headphones or various spdif. The fiio probably uses the 3.5 coax, same as this dx50.


You are right on the money. The description also says "mini digital coaxial".


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

You have the controller for the dsp right? You really wouldn't need access to the volume on the dap, you can control the dsp volume through its controller


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> So why change this?? You are getting a digital signal straight through from your phone to your DSP. Your phono plug idea would be a total step backwards.


The goal is to use something dedicated to store and play music, specifically lossless, and connected and mounted permanently...
My phone is crappy for continuous listening. The volume has 7 clicks between silent and full blast, not to mention incoming calls and other notifications.

Forgive my ignorance, but I am having trouble understanding how getting the other converter and using it to connect it the DAP, is a step backwards from where I am at now. Right now my phone is connected via usb to the converter, the only difference with my new set-up would be that the power needed for the converter is separate from the signal input, and I would be connecting the DAP to the converter via 3.5mm to RCAs... Am I missing something?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> You have the controller for the dsp right? You really wouldn't need access to the volume on the dap, you can control the dsp volume through its controller


In theory yes... Do you have the MiniDSP, or have you checked out the volume? It's volume control is not unlike my phone in that there are very few clicks to go from silent to full tilt.

That is actually the only thing I was disappointed with on the MiniDSP is the volume being so weird, it moves in clicks or steps (or whatever it's called)... But I do love having 4 tunes to switch to on the fly - Right now I have a tune for driver's side from HU, a tune for driver's side phone to DSP, and a tune for passenger's side from HU.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Oh no, I don't have that one. The dx50 is 250 digital steps.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> The goal is to use something dedicated to store and play music, specifically lossless, and connected and mounted permanently...
> My phone is crappy for continuous listening. The volume has 7 clicks between silent and full blast, not to mention incoming calls and other notifications.
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, but I am having trouble understanding how getting the other converter and using it to connect it the DAP, is a step backwards from where I am at now. Right now my phone is connected via usb to the converter, the only difference with my new set-up would be that the power needed for the converter is separate from the signal input, and I would be connecting the DAP to the converter via 3.5mm to RCAs... Am I missing something?


Your current connection from your phone to the DAC (the USB connection) is digital, which means your phone is just a storage device for the music you are hearing. If you use that new audio players 3.5 phono plug then you are using the players internal DAC to convert the music to analog.... The music comes out of the 3.5 jack as analog, Then you want to take that signal... Convert it back to digital again..

So in the latter you are throwing an extra conversion in , and it's a conversion from a signal that isn't as perfect as digital to begin with... That's a step backwards


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Oh no, I don't have that one. The dx50 is 250 digital steps.


Yep, MiniDSP's volume isn't very functional as a main volume, imho. 

I really like the dx50, and wish the volume was on the front... If I was good at this ****, I would get it, open it and wire in an external volume, but I'm not even close to pulling off a stunt like that! Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> Your current connection from your phone to the DAC (the USB connection) is digital, which means your phone is just a storage device for the music you are hearing. If you use that new audio players 3.5 phono plug then you are using the players internal DAC to convert the music to analog.... The music comes out of the 3.5 jack as analog, Then you want to take that signal... Convert it back to digital again..
> 
> So in the latter you are throwing an extra conversion in , and it's a conversion from a signal that isn't as perfect as digital to begin with... That's a step backwards


Oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks. 

Well, the 2nd converter should be here next week and I'll give it a listen. If it sounds worse than my phone I'll **** can the hole idea and buy a nice DAP with digital output and connect it directly to the dsp...


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

I've got the mini dsp c dsp and never found the volume stepping to be an issue?

And the whole point of having lossless files is that you're not compromising on the original recording sound quality.

The DAC in a $60 music player is not likely to be anywhere near as good as the DAC in the C DSP. 

The ADC in the new thing you've got coming is not likely to have the best quality either.

By the time you do the DAC inside the player then to the ADC, then to the DSP's DAC, I really can't see it sounding any better than an mp3. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I've got the mini dsp c dsp and never found the volume stepping to be an issue?
> 
> And the whole point of having lossless files is that you're not compromising on the original recording sound quality.
> 
> ...


Think of it air if like this. Print out a completely black image on a color printer. Take a picture of it and print that picture out on a color printer. It won't be completely black.

Every digital to analog or analog to digital conversion you introduce noise whether from the conversion itself or the analog electrical signal bring transmitted. Even if it's inaudible or an extremely small amount, do it enough times and then amplify those signals there will be higher noise floor. Higher noise floor, lower dynamic range.

Inexpensive electronics often don't have the best designs or components. The ground reference for the audio output may very well be the same ground for all of the digital circuits, but ymmv. Converters can be good, but to many can do more harm than good.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I've got the mini dsp c dsp and never found the volume stepping to be an issue?
> 
> And the whole point of having lossless files is that you're not compromising on the original recording sound quality.
> 
> ...





brother_c said:


> Think of it air if like this. Print out a completely black image on a color printer. Take a picture of it and print that picture out on a color printer. It won't be completely black.
> 
> Every digital to analog or analog to digital conversion you introduce noise whether from the conversion itself or the analog electrical signal bring transmitted. Even if it's inaudible or an extremely small amount, do it enough times and then amplify those signals there will be higher noise floor. Higher noise floor, lower dynamic range.
> 
> Inexpensive electronics often don't have the best designs or components. The ground reference for the audio output may very well be the same ground for all of the digital circuits, but ymmv. Converters can be good, but to many can do more harm than good.



I appreciate the explanations, guys, it totally makes sense to me now! 

I have been reading some reviews about this cheap little player I have, and guys on Head-Fi.org are speaking highly of it... Even doing A-B listening with $600 DAPs and hardly finding it inferior sound quality wise. If only this little bastard had a digital output, it'd be perfect... 
I have listened to various songs and genres in FLAC, and it sounds amazing through my Audio Technica headphones.


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## nhtunes (Jul 31, 2016)

hifiberry- 

Use a raspberry pi to be your server. Control your player with a phone or tablet.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

nhtunes said:


> hifiberry-
> 
> Use a raspberry pi to be your server. Control your player with a phone or tablet.


 Hmmmmmm.. I must read up. 
That's certainly DIY, and potentially kickassness.


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## nhtunes (Jul 31, 2016)

max2play-helps set up logitec media server in PI
mausberry circuits--controls shutdown of PI with ignition 

Potential issue is the memory of the PI can get corrupted and you need to put a new image into the PI (microSD)-- still testing, crashed once in the last 3 weeks (not sure why, 95 dgree day or the Pi swinging back and forth in my trunk by its wires) I keep a couple MicroSD thingies in the car so I can get it up and running ASAP. So far beats the FIIOS X5 I was using for navigating and sound (probably X5 would have sounded better without the 15 ft of Aux cable).


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Little pricey, but it has 3.5 optical out, volume buttons on the front, looks to everything you asked for
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120917233819


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Nevermind, only 32gb sd card support


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Little pricey, but it has 3.5 optical out, volume buttons on the front, looks to everything you asked for
> Little Dot DP I WAV Digital Audio Player Portable | eBay





nineball76 said:


> Nevermind, only 32gb sd card support


Hey, thanks for that! Yes, a little pricey and it needs to be black to blend with the dash...
I don't really mind the 32gb sound card, I can work with that. :beerchug:


This one seems to fit the bill at a low price: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiio-X3-Mas...eea496e&pid=100033&rk=7&rkt=8&sd=120917233819 
That is the old model, the current model has the volume on the side as well...


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Even better is that it's Coax output not optical. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Even better is that it's Coax output not optical.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


I ordered it... We'll see how this one works.  I have this connector already: https://www.amazon.com/Micca-Premiu...8&qid=1470081162&sr=8-12&keywords=spdif+cable
So it should be plug-n-play, right?


Anybody want to buy a nice little DAP?! Lol


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> I ordered it... We'll see how this one works.  I have this connector already: https://www.amazon.com/Micca-Premiu...8&qid=1470081162&sr=8-12&keywords=spdif+cable
> So it should be plug-n-play, right?
> 
> 
> Anybody want to buy a nice little DAP?! Lol


Yup.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Yup.


Awesome!


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

I use my note 4 with flac files on a 200gb sd card, hdmi out to optical converter then straight to processor. I've had good results with that, very clean hq sound.


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## bigaudiofanatic (Mar 1, 2009)

bradknob said:


> I really was looking for one with optical out that could play Spotify as well as stored music. I listen to Spotify %99 of the time and have like 5 saved .flac albums to my name.


Why are you looking for higher quality playback like FLAC if you play spotify almost all the time? That's not going to give you the best quality regardless.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

bigaudiofanatic said:


> Why are you looking for higher quality playback like FLAC if you play spotify almost all the time? That's not going to give you the best quality regardless.


Is someone restricted to playing 320 files if they like to listen to Spotify or are the lyrics allowed to indulge with their own files?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hell, I listen to SiriusXM about 75% of the time. I guess i shouldn't be allowed to have 24/192 files either?


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

What's better, looking at a children's drawing through clear glass, or through frosted glass? 

Even if it's Spotify you still don't want to mess with the sound through too many conversions 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Yep, MiniDSP's volume isn't very functional as a main volume, imho.
> 
> I really like the dx50, and wish the volume was on the front... If I was good at this ****, I would get it, open it and wire in an external volume, but I'm not even close to pulling off a stunt like that! Lol


I've never has any issue with the volume control, except for when the mute didn't work on the v1.0 firmware. However, go and download the latest firmware (1.4 I think) as they made the volume control finer than it was, it used to be 3dB for each Click now it does 1.5dB if you turn it slow and 3dB if you turn it fast.

Sounds to me like using the remote for volume control would help a lot.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> I've never has any issue with the volume control, except for when the mute didn't work on the v1.0 firmware. However, go and download the latest firmware (1.4 I think) as they made the volume control finer than it was, it used to be 3dB for each Click now it does 1.5dB if you turn it slow and 3dB if you turn it fast.
> 
> Sounds to me like using the remote for volume control would help a lot.


Hey thanks, that's a great tip! I didn't think about updating my dsp's firmware...

The Fiio DAP that is on it's way will take care of the volume issue (and all the connection issues, lol). Also, I mounted my dsp remote in the panel below my steering column, so using the dsp's volume is inconvenient based on it's location, too.

Btw, I really, really like the MiniDSP! For a beginner like me, it is very user friendly and it seems quiet cable even for more advanced users. My current Jeep is the first vehicle I tuned myself (Jim Becker, BigRed, tuned my previous system) and I am really happy with how it turned out. 

*
What are you guys thoughts on where the DAP would clip, and/or what kind of output I should expect using it?? 
From the little bit that I tested the phone-->converter-->dsp connection, it seemed like it could have much higher output than my factory HU...*


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Your DAP WON'T clip if using the Coax connection. It's a digital signal. It'll be down to the gains on your amps with the miniDSP rca signal levels.

One more reason to like all digital to the dsp. Less places it can clip. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Actually that leads to another argument for using the dsp remote control volume. 

Digital signals are done in bit depth and sampling rate. 

But depth is how many bits it uses to determine volume level of each sample. Sample rate is how many times a second it samples the music to determine which frequency is playing. 

The reason we have 44k sampling rate generally, is that you need twice the sample rate of the highest frequency playing to accurately tell what frequency it was.

So 16 bit means less clarity of volume as 24 bit. 

44k SHOULD be enough to accurately sample all music we hear. 

But back to the point. 

Changing the volume at the source of a digital signal actually changes the bit number. Say it's 24 1's for a max level (0dB) sine wave. If you adjust the volume at the source it's gonna change that bit number to say (totally random number) 4 0's and 20 1's. Effectively you just turned your 24 bit signal into a 20 bit signal which will have less dynamic range now (the amount of steps between softest and loudest signals). 

You're better off changing the volume at the receiving end of a digital signal is what I'm saying (ie, use the C DSP remote). 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Your DAP WON'T clip if using the Coax connection. It's a digital signal. It'll be down to the gains on your amps with the miniDSP rca signal levels.
> 
> One more reason to like all digital to the dsp. Less places it can clip.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Cool, I am pretty happy to hear that!



TwistdInfinity said:


> Actually that leads to another argument for using the dsp remote control volume.
> 
> Digital signals are done in bit depth and sampling rate.
> 
> ...


Very interesting stuff, thanks for that! I am going to figure out how to update my MiniDSP and get used to using the volume. 
Maybe there is a way to add an external volume to the remote... You sure know your stuff, man!!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> I've never has any issue with the volume control, except for when the mute didn't work on the v1.0 firmware. However, go and download the latest firmware (1.4 I think) as they made the volume control finer than it was, it used to be 3dB for each Click now it does 1.5dB if you turn it slow and 3dB if you turn it fast.
> 
> Sounds to me like using the remote for volume control would help a lot.


I really need to get used to using the volume knob... How do I download the update??


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Actually that leads to another argument for using the dsp remote control volume.
> 
> Digital signals are done in bit depth and sampling rate.
> 
> ...



Even better yet, as in the case of JL XDv2's, you can control all volume via one knob directly at the amps. Kind of a little known benefit, but I've heard it in action and it's great. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Cool, I am pretty happy to hear that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes there is a way, you can use any infrared remote control and program it with the c-dsp software. The remote has an IR receiver in it so you can leave it under the dash and put your IR remote wherever you want. You might miss having a rotary disk though. 

Plus there's also the option of using your steering wheel volume buttons if you have them by using a PAC interface adaptor, it wires in to your steering wheel buttons and outputs IR pulses that you point at your c-dsp remote. Downside is you may not be able to use the other buttons for the oem unit any more, if that matters.

Go to minidsp.com and login to your account and look for user downloads > c-dsp downloads. Get the latest which will include the new software (no idea what's changed in the latest version) plus the two firmware .hex files that you copy on to a micro SD card. Take the card and put it into the card slot on the dsp, connect your laptop to the dsp with usb then turn the ignition/stereo on. After a while all 4 preset lights light up then eventually it will go back to one light which means it's done, ignition off take the card out of the dsp and you're good. To be sure it went through, check if the files are still on the card, the dsp deletes them when all goes well.

Cheers


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## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

16 bit = 2^16 unique values = 65,536 values
24 bit = 2^24 unique values = 16,777,216 values

There's theoretically 256 possible unique values from 24 bit depth represented by 1 value in 16 bit depth. Much easier to get excited about higher but depth signal than higher sample rate.

I can hear subtle differences on well recorded music compared from Tidal Hifi 44.1/16 (CD) and 96/24 (SACD) HDTracks. This was only after spending way to many hours tuning with all different types of music.

Good luck with your new digital source!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

brother_c said:


> 16 bit = 2^16 unique values = 65,536 values
> 24 bit = 2^24 unique values = 16,777,216 values
> 
> There's theoretically 256 possible unique values from 24 bit depth represented by 1 value in 16 bit depth. Much easier to get excited about higher but depth signal than higher sample rate.
> ...


That's not an apple to apples comparison since the files did not come from the same source. They might claim the album labels are the same from both sources but you can never verify that. Just look at how from some music services you will sometimes see 2 or 3 album choices with the same album cover and description.

If you want to accurate compared formats you'd need to have the highest resolution version yourself and down convert yourself. 

Also you'd need an ABX comparator software, like the plugin available for Foorbar2000, in order to remove unavoidable personal bias from influencing the results. But that's a debate for another time.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Babs said:


> Even better yet, as in the case of JL XDv2's, you can control all volume via one knob directly at the amps. Kind of a little known benefit, but I've heard it in action and it's great.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


x2. It will increase system S/N ratio by allowing you to attenuate the induced noise or component noise alongside the signal between the DSP and amp input stage. Doing volume control from the DSP will just do that for the component chain before it. Noise after will remain full scale and constant regardless of volume setting.


----------



## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

I hope we're not overloading OP with superfluous info from his original thread intention haha.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

TwistdInfinity said:


> I hope we're not overloading OP with superfluous info from his original thread intention haha.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Yeah when these threads pop up, since the source/player/head unit part of car audio is THE most lacking and mediocre (sorry head unit companies but yeah), the threads tend to diverge into a massive conglomeration of any and all DIY methods of getting music media to a DSP in the best manner, which tends to also become a discussion about digital audio bit rates, sample rates, streaming, conversions, etc etc etc.


----------



## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

Wasnt trying to do that my bad. Just trying to help explain things, not trying to get to carried away.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> yes there is a way, you can use any infrared remote control and program it with the c-dsp software. The remote has an IR receiver in it so you can leave it under the dash and put your IR remote wherever you want. You might miss having a rotary disk though.
> 
> Plus there's also the option of using your steering wheel volume buttons if you have them by using a PAC interface adaptor, it wires in to your steering wheel buttons and outputs IR pulses that you point at your c-dsp remote. Downside is you may not be able to use the other buttons for the oem unit any more, if that matters.
> 
> ...


Thanks a bunch. 

The remote idea sounds great, I'd like to give that a shot. It will probably involve another million question thread for me to figure it out though! Lol

I do want to keep my steering wheel controls completely functional with the HU, because of Bluetooth, XM Radio, etc.




brother_c said:


> 16 bit = 2^16 unique values = 65,536 values
> 24 bit = 2^24 unique values = 16,777,216 values
> 
> There's theoretically 256 possible unique values from 24 bit depth represented by 1 value in 16 bit depth. Much easier to get excited about higher but depth signal than higher sample rate.
> ...


Thanks a lot, I am looking forward to it! I have been compiling a small collection of music from HDTracks... Plus, all the CDs that I have and continue to buy. YES, I still buy CDs! Lol

The other day I bought a Selena Gomez CD from Target and the cashier had a weird look on her face. I don't know if it was because a 41 year old man was buying Selena Gomez, or just the fact that I was buying a CD at all! Lol





TwistdInfinity said:


> I hope we're not overloading OP with superfluous info from his original thread intention haha.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Thanks for looking out... It's good all good stuff. Like I said before, part of why I try different things is to learn something in the process, and I have learned a lot from this exercise, thanks to you guys and also all the reading I have had to do... 



Babs said:


> Yeah when these threads pop up, since the source/player/head unit part of car audio is THE most lacking and mediocre (sorry head unit companies but yeah), the threads tend to diverge into a massive conglomeration of any and all DIY methods of getting music media to a DSP in the best manner, which tends to also become a discussion about digital audio bit rates, sample rates, streaming, conversions, etc etc etc.


Yes sir, and those are all things I am still trying to wrap my head around... 

My head unit puts out, not only a weak signal, but a signal that is utterly molested. The amount of EQing needed to make it sound decent is insane.
Here is the next challenge: being a Jeep Wrangler with a removable top, when the top comes off the HU cuts output even more to protect the speakers.
I guess the engineers decided that with the top off the listener would likely need more output, so therefore they designed it to give less.


----------



## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> That's not an apple to apples comparison since the files did not come from the same source. They might claim the album labels are the same from both sources but you can never verify that. Just look at how from some music services you will sometimes see 2 or 3 album choices with the same album cover and description.
> 
> If you want to accurate compared formats you'd need to have the highest resolution version yourself and down convert yourself.
> 
> Also you'd need an ABX comparator software, like the plugin available for Foorbar2000, in order to remove unavoidable personal bias from influencing the results. But that's a debate for another time.


Good call


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm starting to think Bit Play HD, if they ever get the firmware updated and it works well. Plays 24/96 FLAC among others. Outputs PCM 24/96. Internal SSD storage. Control from device via wifi (thinking iPad dash kit). What's not to like? I've heard it feeding a DSP Pro in John's Audi. Absolutely stellar SQ. 

Wish Alpine, Pioneer, JL would do this. 

JL could do one of these and they'd sell like popcorn at a Star Wars opening weekend. 

Everyone say it with me. 
Manville.. Pleeeeeeeease! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2016)

Now that the Sony RSX-GS9 is in my car.... I'm a believer... It's difficult for me to put into words the difference the Sony unit made.... Not sure if it's the Hi-Res media or simply the actual construction of the unit...

Seriously, enormous difference !


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

SQ_TSX said:


> Now that the Sony RSX-GS9 is in my car.... I'm a believer... It's difficult for me to put into words the difference the Sony unit made.... Not sure if it's the Hi-Res media or simply the actual construction of the unit...
> 
> Seriously, enormous difference !


I went back and reviewed your build.. You're too close in proximity. I must hear your car. It's a moral imperative. 

Tablet dash no less.. Love it! If I could spring for the Sony, it'd be a cool thing I think even without a tablet dash, though it looks like you darn near need a tablet to control the Sony with any level of effectiveness. There are so many things I love and hate about that unit's design.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Got the Fiio X3 today and it's defective, so I'm returning it. Fuk. Back to the drawing board...


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Got the Fiio X3 today and it's defective, so I'm returning it. Fuk. Back to the drawing board...


Getting another one? What was defective?


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> Getting another one? What was defective?


Definitely getting another one, but I found the last NIB Fiio X3 (1st gen) which has the volumes on the front. Still trying to find another one...

It wouldn't stay on when I turned it on, even after charging it for a few hours. It seemed like the battery just wouldn't hold a charge, despite the green light being on which meant it was fully charged. I could turn it one when it was plugged in the charger and the screen would say "no power turning off" and it would shut down immediately. When it wasn't pulled in, it would was completely unresponsive.

I thought about maybe getting a new battery for it, but I shouldn't have to repair something I bought brand new. Plus, if I opened it up and replaced the battery and it still didn't work, I would not be able to return it... 

Kinda bummed cuz it's a great little player with everything that I need.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

This might be a stupid question, but here goes: *Is there a way to pull a digital signal from my current little DAP, that does NOT have a digital output?? Is there a way to wire in an external port, or somehow wire the existing to 3.5mm to digital??*

I ask this because out of all the DAPs out there is a great little device. It's tiny, it's build quality is better than the Fiio unit and it looks and functions like I need it to...


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> This might be a stupid question, but here goes: *Is there a way to pull a digital signal from my current little DAP, that does NOT have a digital output?? Is there a way to wire in an external port, or somehow wire the existing to 3.5mm to digital??*
> 
> I ask this because out of all the DAPs out there is a great little device. It's tiny, it's build quality is better than the Fiio unit and it looks and functions like I need it to...


Sure, if you can pull the signal off the traces that feed into the dac, prior to its analog lead into the amp.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Most digital signals are passed around internally in the i2s format. Could find out if there are i2s pins inside it that you could tap into and send to a miniDSP MiniStreamer (or something like that, minidsp have heaps of products, I know one does the i2s to spdif conversion) 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Sure, if *you* can pull the signal off the traces that feed into the dac, prior to its analog lead into the amp.


So that's an emphatic "NO, not possible!" Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Most digital signals are passed around internally in the i2s format. Could find out if there are i2s pins inside it that you could tap into and send to a miniDSP MiniStreamer (or something like that, minidsp have heaps of products, I know one does the i2s to spdif conversion)
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


I'll have to do a little reading to know what that means... 

It sounds like you guys are saying, it could be possible, just not by someone as unskilled as me! Lol


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Haha yes it's taken a lot of reading plus a communications electronics technicians qual to get me to the point I am

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I bought 4 toslink pcb connectors in hopes I could learn exactly how to grab that signal before the dac. Use nearly any head unit with an optical output. From what i was finding, it's not impossible, just takes plenty of patience.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Where there's a will there's a way! 

I'm actually thinking about adding a pcb toslink connector to my original playstation 


Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> I bought 4 toslink pcb connectors in hopes I could learn exactly how to grab that signal before the dac. Use nearly any head unit with an optical output. From what i was finding, it's not impossible, just takes plenty of patience.


So what you are saying is that I should send you my DAP so you can hook it up, in the name of R&D and science!  Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

In theory, would the digital signal be available pre-DAC chip inside the player?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> In theory, would the digital signal be available pre-DAC chip inside the player?


Exactly


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Exactly


Not to make it sound too simple, but if I opened up the player and was looking at the chip, would two (or more) prongs be a digital signal going into the DAC?



Edit: This DAP was cheap enough to were I am willing to open it up and poke around with some wires at the risk of frying it...


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I have been reading a lot about the xDuoo X3 DAP that I have... I have been trying to find someone who may have attempted to make a digital output with it. 

Some general info:

One person said "_It have no DAC chip. and the AMP chip is LMH6643 from TI which is rail to rail output amplifiers, OCL(OUTPUT capacitor-less)with Split power supply._"

Some one else said "_The DAC is a Stereo 16-bit Sigma-Delta D/A (48Khz max) SNR>90dB_"

High-res pic of circuit board - http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/ae/ae75484a_09-23524359713.jpeg


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

If the chip in the middle is anything like a C-media chip, there'll be I2S pins on it. The tiny little ones.

"That is not your daddy's soldering iron, cowboy!"


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> If the chip in the middle is anything like a C-media chip, there'll be I2S pins on it. The tiny little ones.
> 
> "That is not your daddy's soldering iron, cowboy!"


Lol! No ****! I can barely see it, much less solder it... :blush:

So the chip on the lower right side that says LMH6643 is the amp chip according to some guy on Head-Fi:
LMH6643 | High Speed Amplifier (>=50MHz) | Operational Amplifier (Op Amp) | Description & parametrics
I would guess that the signal is already analog when it enters the amp, right?

Also, the chip in the middle is this thing: 
file:///C:/Users/Office%20Depot/Downloads/AK2117-Artek.pdf
It's pretty much WAAAAYYYY over my head...

The white NEC thing is just a relay: 
https://www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/pdf_dl/mini_data/relay_uc2_ud2_e.pdf

The chip that says LM2663M is a capacitator: 
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2663.pdf

Could it be the chip in the bottom center that does not have any print on it where the digital to analog conversion takes place? That does connect directly into the amp... Just a wild guess...


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm thinking that middle piece is a SoC cpu. System on a chip. Probably has built in ram and dac.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

From what I can see the ak2117 chip does a lot of the work in that player. I'd say it does all the media control, and also the digital to analogue conversions (which means not being able to find a digital stream to tap into before the dac) 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

http://www.datasheetcafe.com/ak2117-datasheet-multimedia-chip/


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> I'm thinking that middle piece is a SoC cpu. System on a chip. Probably has built in ram and dac.





TwistdInfinity said:


> From what I can see the ak2117 chip does a lot of the work in that player. I'd say it does all the media control, and also the digital to analogue conversions (which means not being able to find a digital stream to tap into before the dac)
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk





nineball76 said:


> AK2117 Datasheet - Digital Multimedia Chip - Artek


Thanks a bunch guys. From the sounds of it, these cheap multi purpose chips might be making it impossible to dissect and isolate the digital signal prior to the analog conversion...


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Don't worry man I've had heaps of ideas that I wanted to do over the last few years only to find one stupid thing in the way that's too much effort to overcome 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Don't worry man I've had heaps of ideas that I wanted to do over the last few years only to find one stupid thing in the way that's too much effort to overcome
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Yep, I hear ya... I should probably get the Fiio X3 (2nd gen) and call it a day. I'll have to change my original plan of wanting to embed the player in the dash, though, cuz the volume's on the side.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

So I am looking through all of my DAP options, and reading way to much in to them! 

Funny thing is, neither of the higher end Onkyo and Pioneer players have digital outputs. I was thinking, what if I bite the bullet and get a great player that I could enjoy for a long time, but those two are out... I REALLY like the Onkyo player!

Another budget friendly option is the Hidizs AP100, it has the volume on the front and digital out: https://www.amazon.com/Hidizs-AP100...00N0DZ8F6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

All right since you want something that "looks stock" here ya go.

https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-Electronics-X009-WRA-Restyle-Wranglers/dp/B01C77Z42C

(3) 4V preouts
Optical output
plays Flac files

Get out your wallet and put a sticker over that Alpine logo at the top and rock on!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

knever3 said:


> All right since you want something that "looks stock" here ya go.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-Electronics-X009-WRA-Restyle-Wranglers/dp/B01C77Z42C
> 
> ...


Lol! 

I am very familiar with that thing... Alpine has the nerve to charge that price for a bunch of Chinese plastic.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

I still suggest using your processor to control the volume, this way your player is just needed to acess what song you want

I am using an iPad and a custom volume and sub knobs which control each at my Helix Pro


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

It's actually not a very common feature on DACs to allow you to control the volume through software when you set them to digital out. The ones that do are in a small minority last time I looked.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> I still suggest using your processor to control the volume, this way your player is just needed to acess what song you want
> 
> I am using an iPad and a custom volume and sub knobs which control each at my Helix Pro


Good point. I don't know why I keep forgetting that... So basically where the volume is on the unit itself doesn't matter. I'll have to remember that. 

Nice set-up you have there!

So I think it's between the iBasso DX50, Fiio X3, and the Hidizs AP100...


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

knever3 said:


> All right since you want something that "looks stock" here ya go.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-Electronics-X009-WRA-Restyle-Wranglers/dp/B01C77Z42C
> 
> ...





DavidRam said:


> Lol!
> 
> I am very familiar with that thing... Alpine has the nerve to charge that price for a bunch of Chinese plastic.


Which is why the head unit makers despise us DIY'ers. A bunch of non'DIY'ers probably drive in to their dealer, shudder and stammer, then pay the money for their dealer to put that thing in their Jeep. Imagine the amps and speaks you could buy for that coin.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Babs said:


> Which is why the head unit makers despise us DIY'ers. A bunch of non'DIY'ers probably drive in to their dealer, shudder and stammer, then pay the money for their dealer to put that thing in their Jeep. Imagine the amps and speaks you could buy for that coin.


True. AND they still leave with horrible sound coming out of their stock speakers!!


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> So I am looking through all of my DAP options, and reading way to much in to them!
> 
> Funny thing is, neither of the higher end Onkyo and Pioneer players have digital outputs. I was thinking, what if I bite the bullet and get a great player that I could enjoy for a long time, but those two are out... I REALLY like the Onkyo player!
> 
> Another budget friendly option is the Hidizs AP100, it has the volume on the front and digital out: https://www.amazon.com/Hidizs-AP100...00N0DZ8F6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


The Onkyo does have digital out, audio over USB


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Good point. I don't know why I keep forgetting that... So basically where the volume is on the unit itself doesn't matter. I'll have to remember that.
> 
> Nice set-up you have there!
> 
> So I think it's between the iBasso DX50, Fiio X3, and the Hidizs AP100...


I still could sell you this dx50 this week ?


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> The Onkyo does have digital out, audio over USB


Interesting... Would it need a converter for USB to spdif? 



nineball76 said:


> I still could sell you this dx50 this week ��


You are selling one?



I am really starting to like the Hidizs AP100, excellent reviews and clean looking: http://www.head-fi.org/t/721487/review-of-hidizs-ap100-portable-hifi-music-player


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Interesting... Would it need a converter for USB to spdif?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea you'd need to convert the USB, but as far as I know, there little to no power coming out of the Onkyo usb to power a converter. If you had a converter that has its own power supply, then it would be great. 

And yes I'm planning to sell my dx50, to get the Onkyo.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Yea you'd need to convert the USB, but as far as I know, there little to no power coming out of the Onkyo usb to power a converter. If you had a converter that has its own power supply, then it would be great.
> 
> And yes I'm planning to sell my dx50, to get the Onkyo.


Well, that counts the Onkyo out for me again, I do not want to deal with figuring out a converter and power... To bad, because it's my #1 fav dap. 

Is it the same story with the Pioneer? The more I read about the Hidizs the more I lean toward it, all the personal reviews say that it has much better sound quality than the Fiio X3 and it's said to be comparable to the X5, which is much more $$$. Plus, I just don't like the little wheel thing on Fiios, both for looks and function. 

What are you going to do with the Onkyo??? 

Could you tell me about condition and price of the DX50? Thanks!


----------



## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

You could get a miniDSP MiniStreamer which is usb to Coax (there are also cheaper ones on eBay) and power it with a y split usb cable that has the extra plug going into a cigarette lighter usb charger. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Don't forget that you need spdif Coax into your c dsp. The C DSP won't take optical in so if you get one that does optical out you still need to convert it which will require a powered device 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> You could get a miniDSP MiniStreamer which is usb to Coax (there are also cheaper ones on eBay) and power it with a y split usb cable that has the extra plug going into a cigarette lighter usb charger.
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


True. I'm kinda thinking that if I get a better DAP I want one that is gonna work easy-breezy, plug-n-play... 

Honestly, I have learned a lot of cool things through out this process and now I am ready to just plug in a nice player and listen to some music! Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Don't forget that you need spdif Coax into your c dsp. The C DSP won't take optical in so if you get one that does optical out you still need to convert it which will require a powered device
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Yep, thanks to you guys this ^^^ is etched into my brain! 

The only DAPs I'm considering now are those with digital coax that connect via 3.5mm... My trusty little MiniDSP is sitting there right now, with a spdif cable hanging out of it with a male end 3.5mm just waiting for the female end!


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

It's in perfect condition. Been in its silicone case since day 1, maybe a few scratches on the screen protector but i believe I have 1 or 2 extras. Hardly even used really. Used it as a dac for my laptop several times. Also for my ear protection when using the power tools. $150 would get it to your door. 

Dx50 has coax out 

The Onkyo and pioneer are basically the same unit, except that the Onkyo has a second dac, one for each channel when running balance out. 

http://avprogear.com/top-10-best-portable-music-players-for-audiophiles/

And to add power into a USB to coax converter... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NSBVNCM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_YfrPxb03RHWT6


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> It's in perfect condition. Been in its silicone case since day 1, maybe a few scratches on the screen protector but i believe I have 1 or 2 extras. Hardly even used really. Used it as a dac for my laptop several times. Also for my ear protection when using the power tools. $150 would get it to your door.
> 
> Dx50 has coax out
> 
> ...


Cool man, thanks for that... I'll give it some thought over the weekend. 

Are you getting the Onkyo to use in your car??


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

No. I enjoy personal audio quite a bit. No home audio to speak of so i use headphones as my reference. CarPC is in the vehicles. Or going to be very soon.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> No. I enjoy personal audio quite a bit. No home audio to speak of so i use headphones as my reference. CarPC is in the vehicles. Or going to be very soon.


Very cool. Same here... Home audio is mostly in the way of headphones, my wife and daughter don't share my interests...  lol


So that second converter came in today, the analog to digital with a separate power cable. 
Just to give it a listen, I am going to connect it with my cheap little DAP and see how it compares to the factory HU... After that I can put my wild ideas to rest, buy a decent player and connect it like a normal person would!


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Right now I only have a pair of Grado 325 and a pair of Heir 8.a custom in ears. Gotta start saving my pennies for black Friday, Noble Audio should be doing 20% off. I really really want the K10 customs, 10 drivers per ear. But $300 off is a nice perk.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Gotta start saving my pennies for black Friday, Noble Audio should be doing 20% off. I really really want the K10 customs, 10 drivers per ear. But $300 off is a nice perk.


Holy **** cakes, those things are amazing ^^^!!! Never heard of them before... It's unbelievable how they fit all that into a tiny little thing! Not to mention they are beautifully designed.

https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/custom/


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Holy **** cakes, those things are amazing ^^^!!! Never heard of them before... It's unbelievable how they fit all that into a tiny little thing! Not to mention they are beautifully designed.
> 
> https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/custom/


They're supposed to have a similar signature to the target curve we in the car audio hobby tend to chase. A slight bump towards the bottom end. They have a new 9 driver model that's more of a reference, flat, very neutral tuning. 

I pulled the trigger, ordered the dp-x1 and 2 200gb cards. Let y'all know Monday the greatness it is.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> They're supposed to have a similar signature to the target curve we in the car audio hobby tend to chase. A slight bump towards the bottom end. They have a new 9 driver model that's more of a reference, flat, very neutral tuning.
> 
> I pulled the trigger, ordered the dp-x1 and 2 200gb cards. Let y'all know Monday the greatness it is.


Awww MAN! Lucky guy!!! Can't wait to hear all about it!


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Oooooh!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Oooooh!


B e a u t i f u l !!!

How is it???


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

No clue. Haven't been home long enough to load up these


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> No clue. Haven't been home long enough to load up these


Damn, I didn't even know that 200gb cards existed! 

Have you given it a listen yet? How do you like the size, feel, UI and screen?


So I got the Analog-Digital converter and hooked it up using my cheap little DAP, and it sounds surprisingly good despite being a funky dual conversion set-up!
Using the same music and the DAP, I went back and forth between the aux input on the HU and the digital input, and the digital is significantly better in terms of clarity, separation, and how natural it sounded, etc.. The only thing I did was set crossovers, t/a and level match, there was no EQ at all on the digital. 
I did this A/B listening with an entire Fleetwood Mac Greatest hits album, and the difference was remarkable... I can only imagine the sound with a quality DAP and not using the cheap little converter and the dual conversion! 

Btw, I really enjoy the recording on this album (not to mention the music): https://www.amazon.com/Very-Best-Fleetwood-Mac-2CD/dp/B00006JL1Z


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Glad to hear you're getting yours fully put together and are enjoying it. Funny you mentioned the Fleetwood Mac, the second album I listened to last night was Rumours. The first I tried was Daft Punk - Random Access Memories in 24/88. This being an electronica type music, I expected it all to stay pretty tight. And it was! the bass was spot on and the deepest I'd heard from any DAP. Yet it all stayed very neutral. I hadn't put anything those big cards yet, just mostly a mixture of 16/44 and very little 24 bit stuff from a couple of 64gb cards I had from the dx50. Can't wait to try some DSD later this week. The sound leans towards warm. Detailed, but not clinical. As I get cards filled up, I'll try to burn it in a little this week and see how it changes. 

As for the build, it's solid. Feels like it was machined from a single slab of aluminum and a screen added. The edges are a little sharp, not really smoothed out much or rounded over. The side buttons are small, like really small. Think, most reset buttons. The volume wheel has very fine adjustments. From zero, it'll take many revolutions to get it to a listening level. I love it, but it really needs a case and screen protector. Such a lovely piece needs to be well cared for and protected from a clutzes hands.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Glad to hear you're getting yours fully put together and are enjoying it. Funny you mentioned the Fleetwood Mac, the second album I listened to last night was Rumours. The first I tried was Daft Punk - Random Access Memories in 24/88. This being an electronica type music, I expected it all to stay pretty tight. And it was! the bass was spot on and the deepest I'd heard from any DAP. Yet it all stayed very neutral. I hadn't put anything those big cards yet, just mostly a mixture of 16/44 and very little 24 bit stuff from a couple of 64gb cards I had from the dx50. Can't wait to try some DSD later this week. The sound leans towards warm. Detailed, but not clinical. As I get cards filled up, I'll try to burn it in a little this week and see how it changes.
> 
> As for the build, it's solid. Feels like it was machined from a single slab of aluminum and a screen added. The edges are a little sharp, not really smoothed out much or rounded over. The side buttons are small, like really small. Think, most reset buttons. The volume wheel has very fine adjustments. From zero, it'll take many revolutions to get it to a listening level. I love it, but it really needs a case and screen protector. Such a lovely piece needs to be well cared for and protected from a clutzes hands.


Man, that sounds NICE!! I have that Daft Punk album, too, it's great when I need something a little more bass heavy...
That Onkyo is by far the nicest looking DAP on the market, imho.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

That Onkyo looks really nice. But I'm not a fan of the sharp edges or small buttons either. I still think that Apple got a lot right with the ergonomics and UI on the iPods and iPod Touch. Too bad you're locked into their ecosystem, they don't play hi-res, don't have a direct digital output, or the latest DAC technology, or removable storage, or a strong headphone amp. 

However, the iPhone 6 Plus has been thoroughly tested to have audiophile-quality output directly from the analog headphone output. Apple iPhone 6 Plus Review Unfortunately, all of the other caveats above apply.

Oh, and Samsung just released a 256GB Micro-SD card to coincide with the release of the Galaxy Note 7 smartphone. They're giving the MicroSD card away for free if you preorder the Note 7 before the 19th. I'm curious to see what DAC chip they're using in the Galaxy Note 7, but it's most likely the same one that's used in the S7/S7 Edge, as so much of the other internals are similar.

I'm currently using the international version of the Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0" phablet (#SM-T715Y. Yes it's an 8" cell phone and tablet with a hi-res display). It basically identical in size to an iPad Mini Retina, but just slightly thinner & lighter. The phablet is connected to an SMSL X-USB XMOS Digital extractor via USB OTG Cable & Hub (for charging). The SMSL is connected to the digital input of my Helix DSP PRO via Coaxial Digital cable. The sound is amazing and the Galaxy Tab S2 8" also accepts MicroSD cards...I'm currently using the 200GB MicroSD cards as well, but plan to get the new 256GB MicroSD cards soon.

I wanted to have a newer portable tablet device anyway, and the Tab S2 8" acts as my backup cell phone as well as my DAP, so for the cost it kills 3 birds with one stone. Though I do still have an iBasso DX90 if I want to carry a smaller portable device and also have coaxial digital output.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> That Onkyo looks really nice. But I'm not a fan of the sharp edges or small buttons either. I still think that Apple got a lot right with the ergonomics and UI on the iPods and iPod Touch. Too bad you're locked into their ecosystem, they don't play hi-res, don't have a direct digital output, or the latest DAC technology, or removable storage, or a strong headphone amp.
> 
> However, the iPhone 6 Plus has been thoroughly tested to have audiophile-quality output directly from the analog headphone output. Apple iPhone 6 Plus Review Unfortunately, all of the other caveats above apply.
> 
> ...



Just one correction in your statement...iPads and iPhones CAN play hi-res material... Off my iPad I can play up to 32bit/384. But since my DSP is only capable of 24/96, that's all I'm striving to pull out with a converter.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just one correction in your statement...iPads and iPhones CAN play hi-res material... Off my iPad I can play up to 32bit/384. But since my DSP is only capable of 24/96, that's all I'm striving to pull out with a converter.


So how do you do this with iPhone/iPad? What do you need to connect them to, say my MiniDSP via the digital input?


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## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

A great resource for researching portable DAP's is Head-Fi if you haven't been reading over there. For my application right now the Fiio X7 looks to be the best bet. Digital out and Wi-Fi with Tidal capability. I can teether to my phone and stream in the car, or download tracks for offline play. I can also load up my digital files. Since I try to listen to most new albums that come out (in my preferred genres), Tidal is a great service for me. Further the X7 has up to 200gb storage in addition to 64gb on board. Second would be the Ibasso Dx80 b/c of cost. I also believe Fiio will be releasing a DAP without Wi-Fi but 2tb of storage space soon. 

If you are not looking for Wi-Fi capability, there are a number of excellent DAP's on the market. I would head over to Head-Fi and read up.

I've decided that for my needs, a basic Navigation system with radio, bluetooth, phone, is the best bet for average usage and for critical listening a quality DAP, b/c of the built in DAC's as well as the digital out(s) is the best option for that purpose in the car. The plus is I can utilize the DAP for headphone listening as well.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> So how do you do this with iPhone/iPad? What do you need to connect them to, say my MiniDSP via the digital input?


Yes, but you also need to use an app that allows that type of high res output. I use an iOS app called NePlayer... But check what the highest resolution your DSP even allows as an input. The helix DSP pro allows 24/96 so depending on the converter you use to digital will determine your max resolution


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just one correction in your statement...iPads and iPhones CAN play hi-res material... Off my iPad I can play up to 32bit/384. But since my DSP is only capable of 24/96, that's all I'm striving to pull out with a converter.


Yes, I realize that, but AFAIK it's still not natively through your iTunes/Music app, Library, and Syncing. You need to use a separate app and load all of that specific hi-res music directly into that app. It can't use your already-organized iTunes library. I really don't want to have to manage two separate music libraries. Sure, it works fine, but you are limited to a few apps that will do this and IMO it's a bit of a workaround and AFAIK, none of them support voice command music playback using Siri. What apps are you using now to play Hi-Res via your iDevice? EDIT: I just saw your post above regarding NePlayer. 

Most Android devices will play at least up to 24/96 Lossless natively, and there are dozens of music apps available that will use the standard Android folder/file structure for the music library with full IDv3 tag and album art support. You can use Google Now or Samsung's S-Voice to control audio playback, i.e. just say, "OK Google, Play Miles Davis, Kind of Blue".

If you want to be sure of bit-perfect Hi-Res output, you can use the USB Audio Player Pro app, which actually replaces the stock Android Audio Kernel with a completely custom audio kernel, BUT it still allows you to use the standard Android File/Folder structure for your music library/database.

I admit my use of a 8" phablet as my DAP may be a slight compromise and it's not for everyone. But again, I wanted a tablet device anyway and am trying to get away from having to carry a bunch of individual devices for specific tasks. Everything adds up...having to carry a bunch of different cables and chargers, buy protective cases and screen protectors, and accessories for a bunch of different devices gets old quick.

I can also control the music playback/audio functions of my phablet with my factory Steering wheel controls via SteerBlue and JoyCon EXR+ units. But that adds expense and complexity to any install.

Either way, it's good times for Hi-Res playback. But can you hear the difference?


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> Yes, I realize that, but AFAIK it's still not natively through your iTunes/Music app, Library, and Syncing. You need to use a separate app and load all of that specific hi-res music directly into that app. It can't use your already-organized iTunes library. I really don't want to have to manage two separate music libraries. Sure, it works fine, but you are limited to a few apps that will do this and IMO it's a bit of a workaround and AFAIK, none of them support voice command music playback using Siri. What apps are you using now to play Hi-Res via your iDevice? EDIT: I just saw your post above regarding NePlayer.
> 
> Most Android devices will play at least up to 24/96 Lossless natively, and there are dozens of music apps available that will use the standard Android folder/file structure for the music library with full IDv3 tag and album art support. You can use Google Now or Samsung's S-Voice to control audio playback, i.e. just say, "OK Google, Play Miles Davis, Kind of Blue".
> 
> ...


I do agree.. Apple does have us handcuffed with their corporate agenda... But I guess I like the simplicity of their user interface. I actually don't use iTunes at all for my music playback since iTunes maxes out at like 228k. If I'm not using Neplayer I'm using Spotify premium. And yes, I can hear a difference between Spotify's album verses my Flac copy of the same album through Neplayer.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Timelessr1 said:


> I do agree.. Apple does have us handcuffed with their corporate agenda... But I guess I like the simplicity of their user interface. I actually don't use iTunes at all for my music playback since iTunes maxes out at like 228k. If I'm not using Neplayer I'm using Spotify premium. And yes, I can hear a difference between Spotify's album verses my Flac copy of the same album through Neplayer.


Yeah, one thing Apple has nailed is the simple interface, and I think that is really important. Regarding hearing the difference, I was referencing the same file (same studio master or source) played through NePlayer or any other Hi-Res DAP, with the only difference being the bit depth and sample rate of the file, i.e. 16/44 vs. 24/96 via Blind A/B/X.

EDIT: My quoted post #253 has been edited for more info. Look above.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> Yeah, one thing Apple has nailed is the simple interface, and I think that is really important. Regarding hearing the difference, I was referencing the same file (same studio master or source) played through NePlayer or any other Hi-Res DAP, with the only difference being the bit depth and sample rate of the file, i.e. 16/44 vs. 24/96 via Blind A/B/X.
> 
> EDIT: My quoted post #253 has been edited for more info. Look above.


I was going to try the Steerblue unit but at like $400 bucks I figured I could just use my finger on the tablet, and my volume control is custom that I mounted in an easy distance from my gear shifter.


As of right now I don't have many 24/96 sources... Only a handful so I can't compare to 16/44.... But I can hear a difference between Spotify's 328k and my Flac played at 16/44... I've been busy trying to convert my cd library to Flac.. Once I'm done with that I'll purchase a few choice HD tracks


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

bbfoto said:


> Yes, I realize that, but AFAIK it's still not natively through your iTunes/Music app, Library, and Syncing. You need to use a separate app and load all of that specific hi-res music directly into that app. It can't use your already-organized iTunes library. I really don't want to have to manage two separate music libraries. Sure, it works fine, but you are limited to a few apps that will do this and IMO it's a bit of a workaround and AFAIK, none of them support voice command music playback using Siri. What apps are you using now to play Hi-Res via your iDevice? EDIT: I just saw your post above regarding NePlayer.
> 
> Most Android devices will play at least up to 24/96 Lossless natively, and there are dozens of music apps available that will use the standard Android folder/file structure for the music library with full IDv3 tag and album art support. You can use Google Now or Samsung's S-Voice to control audio playback, i.e. just say, "OK Google, Play Miles Davis, Kind of Blue".
> 
> ...


Only Android 6.0+ supports 24/96 natively. Before this Android was natively 16/48 and as you mentioned, you needed an app called USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) to allow playback at rates higher than this (you will still need this app if you want 192+ kHz sampling rates on 6.0+).

UAPP caused me more problems than it solved though. It wouldn't release the audio device back to the Kernal properly upon exit so other apps would not play audio until the tablet was reset. There were some other problems I had with it too. 

My collection of high res music (24/96 and up) is generally music I don't listen to in the car anyway so I went back to using power amp and the native android audio driver. 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ryanougrad said:


> A great resource for researching portable DAP's is Head-Fi if you haven't been reading over there. For my application right now the Fiio X7 looks to be the best bet. Digital out and Wi-Fi with Tidal capability. I can teether to my phone and stream in the car, or download tracks for offline play. I can also load up my digital files. Since I try to listen to most new albums that come out (in my preferred genres), Tidal is a great service for me. Further the X7 has up to 200gb storage in addition to 64gb on board. Second would be the Ibasso Dx80 b/c of cost. I also believe Fiio will be releasing a DAP without Wi-Fi but 2tb of storage space soon.
> 
> If you are not looking for Wi-Fi capability, there are a number of excellent DAP's on the market. I would head over to Head-Fi and read up.
> 
> I've decided that for my needs, a basic Navigation system with radio, bluetooth, phone, is the best bet for average usage and for critical listening a quality DAP, b/c of the built in DAC's as well as the digital out(s) is the best option for that purpose in the car. The plus is I can utilize the DAP for headphone listening as well.


Thanks for the info! 
I'm a recent member over at Head-Fi.org... That place has been great for researching and learning. Some pretty cool members there too.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Thanks for the info!
> I'm a recent member over at Head-Fi.org... That place has been great for researching and learning. Some pretty cool members there too.


haha, Head-fi.... _"sorry bout your wallet"_


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> haha, Head-fi.... _"sorry bout your wallet"_


Yep, which is not unlike this forum or any other forum that I am on! :laugh:



I ordered the Fiio X3 (2nd gen) today.

*Do you guys have any recommendations on digital coax cables??? It will need a 3.5mm TRRS and about 4-6 feet.*

I saw this one on Amazon, but I don't know it the quality is good enough: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AF98IY0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A364KLI3BZY8MZ


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Blue Jeans Cable maybe?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

thehatedguy said:


> Blue Jeans Cable maybe?


Thanks, I'll take a look at them. 


*The X3 does come with this:* https://www.google.com/search?q=fii...=kLOsV-z4JoHajwOIvrOgAg#imgrc=1ibv_bYYuUQ3hM:
*and I do have this:* https://www.google.com/search?q=med...hVGwmMKHZT8C9IQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=A5PFVLm9e_sFgM: *plugged into my DSP right now.* *So it should work fine like that. I was just hoping to reduce it down to one cable, rather than the two connected. Does that make any difference?*


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Yep, which is not unlike this forum or any other forum that I am on! :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd absolutely use that one. $20 and the length you need, look no further


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> I'd absolutely use that one. $20 and the length you need, look no further


Cool, thanks! Do you agree that it would be better to just have one single cable and connection vs. the two? Or do I not really gain anything from that?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Cool, thanks! Do you agree that it would be better to just have one single cable and connection vs. the two? Or do I not really gain anything from that?


If you mean from DAP out via digital coax and into DSP, vs Dap out analog to digital conversion then into DSP, the analog to digital is not a great option IMO. The signal staying digital from player into the dsp is the best possible solution.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> If you mean from DAP out via digital coax and into DSP, vs Dap out analog to digital conversion then into DSP, the analog to digital is not a great option IMO. The signal staying digital from player into the dsp is the best possible solution.


No I meant simply using the cable that comes with the DAP, this: https://www.google.com/search?q=fii...=kLOsV-z4JoHajwOIvrOgAg#imgrc=1ibv_bYYuUQ3hM:
and connecting it with this: https://www.google.com/search?q=med...hVGwmMKHZT8C9IQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=A5PFVLm9e_sFgM:
to the DSP.

Sorry I can't post pics or I would... Did you move from TX to OR?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

You could do it either way I suppose, I'm kinda ocd about wanting the least possible connections from point A to point B. I don't think the signal loss at the connection between the two would be audible in any way, there's only 1's and 0's being passed. But you do open the possibility of vibration loosening the connection between the two over time. Plus don't you need a female to female connector to put between them?


Yea Kinda, I stay in both places off and on until I make up my mind where I want to grow old. Had planned to be in Texas ASAP, but things need to happen prior to that. Truck needs lifted and all the audio builds need to be finished. Once I get moved down there, I'll be concentrating on buying a home and planning for the future. Extras won't be happening since I'll probably take a hit on the income loss.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> You could do it either way I suppose, I'm kinda ocd about wanting the least possible connections from point A to point B. I don't think the signal loss at the connection between the two would be audible in any way, there's only 1's and 0's being passed. But you do open the possibility of vibration loosening the connection between the two over time. Plus don't you need a female to female connector to put between them?
> 
> 
> Yea Kinda, I stay in both places off and on until I make up my mind where I want to grow old. Had planned to be in Texas ASAP, but things need to happen prior to that. Truck needs lifted and all the audio builds need to be finished. Once I get moved down there, I'll be concentrating on buying a home and planning for the future. Extras won't be happening since I'll probably take a hit on the income loss.


I am with you on the less connections the better... At this point there is a good $20 solution so why not. Actually, the one that comes with the Fiio has a female end the one I have has a male end. Regardless, I'll order that cable from Amazon.

You are going from rainy to hot, huh? I live in Seattle for 5 years and I have a sister in San Antonio.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I was born in Texas, childhood was split between there and Portland. I spend a few months each year down there with family. I don't have much keeping me up here. The economy is in the tank. Housing is ridiculous. A house that's $125k in Texas is easily a $400k house here. I'm single and it's nearly impossible for a single person to buy a home up here and I'm not the apartment type. Big dogs, Large truck and car, lots of power tools......


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> I was born in Texas, childhood was split between there and Portland. I spend a few months each year down there with family. I don't have much keeping me up here. The economy is in the tank. Housing is ridiculous. A house that's $125k in Texas is easily a $400k house here. I'm single and it's nearly impossible for a single person to buy a home up here and I'm not the apartment type. Big dogs, Large truck and car, lots of power tools......


I hear ya man... I live a mile from the beach in SoCal, and that $400k house is $900k+ here.  It's absurd, and it's just getting worse. 

I don't blame you for moving. The weather is a little rough in Texas, but you sure get a lot for your money out there. My sister and her husbands income is less than half of me and my wife's, but my sister owns a nice house and we live in an apartment with a one car garage. :blush:


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Exactly! There's positives to both Oregon and Texas. I've never successfully left either. I really like nature, putting on the headphones and taking a mountain bike into the forest or throwing the dog in the river. There's no place like the Pac NW for those things. Then there's the methheads, the dirty roads, and the hipsters. Texas on the other hand.... ^ lane freeways and the majority of people there can drive, somewhat. Large houses for little of nothing, with actual lots and backyards. 6-7 months of lake and swimming pool weather. And on the other foot, floods, tornadoes, state sales tax (none in Oregon), and who wants a Christmas where there's only a 4% chance of seeing snow?


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## yeldak99 (Mar 5, 2008)

nineball76 said:


> Exactly! There's positives to both Oregon and Texas. I've never successfully left either. I really like nature, putting on the headphones and taking a mountain bike into the forest or throwing the dog in the river. There's no place like the Pac NW for those things. Then there's the methheads, the dirty roads, and the hipsters. Texas on the other hand.... ^ lane freeways and the majority of people there can drive, somewhat. Large houses for little of nothing, with actual lots and backyards. 6-7 months of lake and swimming pool weather. And on the other foot, floods, tornadoes, state sales tax (none in Oregon), and who wants a Christmas where there's only a 4% chance of seeing snow?


I disagree about the drivers. This place has some of the worst drivers ever! And as far as sales tax, you aren't getting state taxes taken from your pay here.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

yeldak99 said:


> I disagree about the drivers. This place has some of the worst drivers ever! And as far as sales tax, you aren't getting state taxes taken from your pay here.


It works itself out, sales tax in Oregon but no state income tax, vice versa in Texas. Want to beat taxes? Live in Washington, no state income tax, and shop in Oregon, but shopping online catches you. As for the drivers, you must live in Houston or San Antonio. Dfw is one of the best places to drive. If you don't believe that, try spending a week in Portland, Seattle, Tampa, Chicago. You'll be being for Texas. I've been everywhere in this country and I know for a fact Dfw trumps them all.


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## yeldak99 (Mar 5, 2008)

nineball76 said:


> It works itself out, sales tax in Oregon but no state income tax, vice versa in Texas. Want to beat taxes? Live in Washington, no state income tax, and shop in Oregon, but shopping online catches you. As for the drivers, you must live in Houston or San Antonio. Dfw is one of the best places to drive. If you don't believe that, try spending a week in Portland, Seattle, Tampa, Chicago. You'll be being for Texas. I've been everywhere in this country and I know for a fact Dfw trumps them all.


my traffic opinion was based on the 3 years I was in Houston. I'm in DFW now, its better, but I work nights, so I'm always going the opposite way of traffic these days!


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Unsubbed. Way off topic

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Unsubbed. Way off topic
> 
> Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


Lol.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Well, the X3 should be here any minute now, I can't wait to plug it in and give it a listen!!!

Then comes the tricky task of mounting it somewhere... :sweatdrop:


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Well, the X3 should be here any minute now, I can't wait to plug it in and give it a listen!!!
> 
> Then comes the tricky task of mounting it somewhere... :sweatdrop:


... Waiting...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> ... Waiting...


Lol!

I spent about an hour listening last night, using songs I know very well... The sound is unbelievable!!! I don't know why I didn't do this sooner!

The most noticeable differences: the soundstage is wider and deeper, the separation is almost TOO realistic, and of course the sound is so crystal clear it took me a minute to get used to it (I thought it was really bright at first). The other thing I noticed is the lack of fatigue after the hour of listening.

I have not done any EQing yet, just a quick level match and time alignment...

I'm totally blown away!!!


https://postimg.org/image/44pnvv72t/


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> Lol!
> 
> I spent about an hour listening last night, using songs I know very well... The sound is unbelievable!!! I don't know why I didn't do this sooner!
> 
> ...


This is connected via digital into dsp?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> This is connected via digital into dsp?


Yes sir, coax output on player directly to digital input on dsp (NO ebay special converters in between, lol)!!


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Awesome!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

DavidRam said:


> Yes sir, coax output on player directly to digital input on dsp (NO ebay special converters in between, lol)!!


Hmm.. Hmm....... Helix Pro has a coax. 

Where's the go-to store for this Fiio sorcery? How's the UI if the unit were actually mounted up somewhere?.. Would it actually ergonomically viable? I do like actual tactile buttons.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Awesome!


Yea man, I'm like a kid at Christmas! I expected it to sound good, I didn't think it would sound this amazing! 



Babs said:


> Hmm.. Hmm....... Helix Pro has a coax.
> 
> Where's the go-to store for this Fiio sorcery? How's the UI if the unit were actually mounted up somewhere?.. Would it actually ergonomically viable? I do like actual tactile buttons.


Amazon is a good place. 
Surprisingly, it fully functions with the turn wheel thingy and/or the buttons. In the center of the wheel there is a button, too.
When I took it out of the box I didn't look at the manual at all, and I was immediately able to use it quite easily.
I think it will be really easy to learn to use it blind while driving...


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## ugnlol (Apr 14, 2010)

Interesting setup!

Wanting a 2-din media-hu that runs android that are capable of outputting the sound in spdif for a external DSP. With a ~200gb SSD so I can sync songs over wifi, both local flac/lossless and playlists in different apps.

Can it really be that hard?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ugnlol said:


> Interesting setup!
> 
> Wanting a 2-din media-hu that runs android that are capable of outputting the sound in spdif for a external DSP. With a ~200gb SSD so I can sync songs over wifi, both local flac/lossless and playlists in different apps.
> 
> Can it really be that hard?


Nexus 7?


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## ugnlol (Apr 14, 2010)

nineball76 said:


> Nexus 7?


Lacks support of memory card and no optical sound out as I can see?
But yeah, a tablet would be a very easy option!


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ugnlol said:


> Lacks support of memory card and no optical sound out as I can see?
> But yeah, a tablet would be a very easy option!


Use a WiFi enabled portable hard drive


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

And there's lots of info here about usb to spdif conversions


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ugnlol said:


> Interesting setup!
> 
> Wanting a 2-din media-hu that runs android that are capable of outputting the sound in spdif for a external DSP. With a ~200gb SSD so I can sync songs over wifi, both local flac/lossless and playlists in different apps.
> 
> Can it really be that hard?


I hear ya!

A new head unit was/is not an option for me as this Jeep goes topless and the last thing I wanted to do is put some flashy electronics on display. 

This is a simple, hassle-free, inexpensive, flexible, and stealth way to upgrade the source dramatically!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> And there's lots of info here about usb to spdif conversions


True! Thanks to you guys, this has become the "hand book" for that stuff!!


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## ugnlol (Apr 14, 2010)

Bah. I was SURE that Mosconi had an APP where you could adjust the DSP but no.. need a laptop there also. So that means there are only Pioneer and Alpine that has full controll over DSP on the HU. 
So this idea has to be scraped for my part.. It's totally not interesting to boot up a laptop to do micro adjustments while driving, and in my experience the totalt of these micro adjustments is what makes the system.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ugnlol said:


> Bah. I was SURE that Mosconi had an APP where you could adjust the DSP but no.. need a laptop there also. So that means there are only Pioneer and Alpine that has full controll over DSP on the HU.
> So this idea has to be scraped for my part.. It's totally not interesting to boot up a laptop to do micro adjustments while driving, and in my experience the totalt of these micro adjustments is what makes the system.


There's another option. CarPC. Spdif out, ssd directly ran, direct connection to dsp.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> I hear ya!
> 
> A new head unit was/is not an option for me as this Jeep goes topless and the last thing I wanted to do is put some flashy electronics on display.
> 
> This is a simple, hassle-free, inexpensive, flexible, and stealth way to upgrade the source dramatically!


Very similar setup in my car, Uconnect w/ a PPI DEQ.8. How does your MiniDSP switch between inputs when using the high-res player over coax?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

MoparMike said:


> Very similar setup in my car, Uconnect w/ a PPI DEQ.8. How does your MiniDSP switch between inputs when using the high-res player over coax?


Very cool!

It has a remote with volume and 4 tune presets. I can switch between them in about 2 seconds, so if I get a phone call and need to talk on Bluetooth through the HU it's pretty easy.

Like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=min...hVCzmMKHXw6DFcQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=yyMTlKTX5d6YvM:


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> Very cool!
> 
> It has a remote with volume and 4 tune presets. I can switch between them in about 2 seconds, so if I get a phone call and need to talk on Bluetooth through the HU it's pretty easy.
> 
> ...


That's what I thought. I don't have a remote for mine. Thanks.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I have been getting used to using the volume on the DSP remote and it is working better than I thought it would...

*What should I set the volume at on the player??* Is their a guideline for this, or a way to determine the right setting?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> I have been getting used to using the volume on the DSP remote and it is working better than I thought it would...
> 
> *What should I set the volume at on the player??* Is their a guideline for this, or a way to determine the right setting?


Digital doesn't clip. So I'd set it wide ass open. It was mentioned either here or in the other ios to digital thread. When digital signal is attenuated, the bit depth suffers


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Digital doesn't clip. So I'd set it wide ass open. It was mentioned either here or in the other ios to digital thread. When digital signal is attenuated, the bit depth suffers


Yep, I remember reading that... So full tilt!


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Besides the "eBay specials", what type of HDMI to Optical converters are out there? I've searched but I haven't found much.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

fcarpio said:


> Besides the "eBay specials", what type of HDMI to Optical converters are out there? I've searched but I haven't found much.


The ViewHD (Amazon) unit I picked up, for no real particular reason, did really well on wall outlet power. Hope to have it up and running in car soon.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

fcarpio said:


> Besides the "eBay specials", what type of HDMI to Optical converters are out there? I've searched but I haven't found much.





Babs said:


> The ViewHD (Amazon) unit I picked up, for no real particular reason, did really well on wall outlet power. Hope to have it up and running in car soon.


This. Because usb and hdmi are completely different animals, you aren't looking for a converter, rather an audio extractor. Depending on your source, hdmi™ could lead to loss of video on your source display.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

I see. So there isn't really anything better than the eBay specials as these units seem to be the same thing. I am currently using an eBay special and I am getting pretty good results. The sound I get is very clean from FLAC files.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

fcarpio said:


> Besides the "eBay specials", what type of HDMI to Optical converters are out there? I've searched but I haven't found much.


This is the unit I'll be running.. 

ViewHD HDMI Audio Extractor


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

I just got a Peachtree X1 and it runs great with 1amp of power to the Apple usb3 kit. Problem is that the iPad mini even with 2.1 amps going to the usb3 can't turn on the Peachtree.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I am trying to decide if I should have the usb/charging cable permanently connected to the player, or if I should just plug it in to charge the battery and let it run on battery most of the time... 

What would you guys do???


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DavidRam said:


> I am trying to decide if I should have the usb/charging cable permanently connected to the player, or if I should just plug it in to charge the battery and let it run on battery most of the time...
> 
> What would you guys do???


I think leaving it plugged in all the time is bad for the battery. Plus there's an audiophile thing about portable DAPs and using them off grid power, using only battery is supposed to be the purest way.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> I think leaving it plugged in all the time is bad for the battery. Plus there's an audiophile thing about portable DAPs and using them off grid power, using only battery is supposed to be the purest way.


Thanks! I'm glad I asked, I have never heard of that... 

Good thing it's better to run on the battery because it's one less cable to conceal and the battery last a loooooong time anyways.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Mine should be here by Thursday, so I'm glad I've subscribed to this. Will post my thoughts within the next couple of weeks.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> Mine should be here by Thursday, so I'm glad I've subscribed to this. Will post my thoughts within the next couple of weeks.


What do you mean by "mine"?! :surprised:


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm sorry lol I should have clarified.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> I'm sorry lol I should have clarified.


Lol! Very nice!

How are you going to connect it to the H800?


Edit: With a converter like this? 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...40UU8q6AVISXLEXqdc41sRoC15nw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Was just about to do a posting as to what people would suggest that I use.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Looks good to me


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> Was just about to do a posting as to what people would suggest that I use.


Let the experts chime in... But this looks like it would work and it claims to support 24bit/192KHz.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00695MXXC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADXERLXGK7AZN

You'll need to run some power to it with a 6v converter, too.

And you'll need this type of cable (the x3 takes a 4 pole 3.5mm coax).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AF98IY0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fun stuff! 

Edit: I just went and checked the Fiio X3 does not put out any power via it's usb port... I thought of powering the converter with the player, but that won't work.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

So I've got the cable in my cart, but you're saying that the converter may not work ?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> So I've got the cable in my cart, but you're saying that the converter may not work ?


It will work, you'll just have to run 6v power to it... You can splice the power cable it comes with and a usb to power it through your car's usb outlet, or you can hard wire it with a converter (12v-6v) and connect it to any of your vehicle's outlets.
The Toslink converter only comes with a AC to DC power adapter for in your home...

Edit: This could work for power, if you want to wire it properly into the vehicle.
https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN-Converter-Power-Supply-Module/dp/B00CXKCRME

What I sometimes do, is take an old car phone charger and use it's internals as a step down (if you like getting creative)!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm going to gather the parts, and then lay out how it needs to be done. Hopefully if I order soon, I'll have all needed parts by Monday.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> I'm going to gather the parts, and then lay out how it needs to be done. Hopefully if I order soon, I'll have all needed parts by Monday.


Cool! With Prime you'll have it by Monday easily...

I love figuring out this stuff! :laugh:


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Already ordered and will be here on Friday. Now the NewEgg thing is something different so it will be the last part to arrive lol.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> Already ordered and will be here on Friday. Now the NewEgg thing is something different so it will be the last part to arrive lol.


Nice!

Why not get the converter I linked to on Amazon? I think it could be a better unit...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00695MXXC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADXERLXGK7AZN


_This is from the discription: _
- Converts Digital SPDIF Coax to Digital Optical TOSlink Audio.
- Sample rates up to Max 24 Bit and Max 192KHz as well as lower Bit/KHz rates.
- Maintains all Surround Formats in the conversion process up to 7.1.
- Active circuitry will maintain full signal integrity even on long cable runs.
- Other budget priced converters online can only convert 44.1kHz/48kHz, why compromize your sound quality.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Done, both the converter and the cable ordered from Prime and both will be here on Friday.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> Done, both the converter and the cable ordered from Prime and both will be here on Friday.


I'm looking forward to this !


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

A simple dc to DC step down buck would work, you can get those on ebay for a buck. 

Toslink is finicky above 24/96. But then again how many of us have a crap load of 192? I have a few 192 albums but i also have conversions and with using JRiver I can set it to Downsample while it's playing.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

So I have been working mounting the X3 and there is absolutely nowhere on the dash to flush mount it, where it would both fit and be visible and accessible... 

However, here is Plan B: Using a handle bar phone mount, it's going to be one with my emergency break! Lol
I realize this is a little unconventional, but it's placement is excellent for resting my arm on the center console and being able to reach the controls on the player. 
Plus, the cable drops down into the opening for the hand brake's lever and travels under the center console to the DSP, leaving only 2-3 inches of the cable visible! 
When I need to charge it I pull a usb from the outlet in the center console/armrest... Easy breezy...

The little bracket will be attached to the back of the player with double sided tape, so I'll be able to pop the player off and put it in the glove box when it needs to be out of sight.

Some pics:
https://postimg.org/image/9jgxgm2z9/
https://postimg.org/image/nrb7j051x/


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Some more pics of the Fiio X3 installed:

https://postimg.org/image/ih68rpkt1/
https://postimg.org/image/5r20emcut/
https://postimg.org/image/reqyp2d91/
https://postimg.org/image/afi09t21h/

I'm pretty happy with it like this. It is still easy to pull the brake and definitely ergonomic for pressing the buttons on the player...


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Looks good! How's it sounding?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Looks pretty good there. I don't think the majority of people use their e-brake regularly.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Timelessr1 said:


> Looks good! How's it sounding?


Thanks! It sounds amazing and I have yet to do some EQing... Definitely a very worthy upgrade!


*Btw, when using the X3s digital output, the volume does NOT work anyways... *
I am getting used to using the DSPs volume and it works quite well.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

nineball76 said:


> Looks pretty good there. I don't think the majority of people use their e-brake regularly.


Thanks!
I thought it would look to obtrusive there, but it doesn't really stand out much or get in the way.
It doesn't get in the way of the e-brake at all, and I pull mine every time I park.

It's nice that it fully tilts and swivels using the phone mount...


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## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

Hey Nineball, Are you using jriver in car?


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

jsolo53 said:


> Hey Nineball, Are you using jriver in car?


I will be, eventually. If i every get around to putting this CarPC in. Unless I end up using Centrafuse. Still unclear on how it handles high res.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Because im entirely too lazy to read through this entire thread and search is kinda failing me. Whats the solution to get Spotify out of an Android phone(Moto Z) and into a digital spdif?


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