# Recapping Waffle Style Punch Amps



## lsm

I'm planning to use three old RF amps in an install and was wondering if I should recap them prior to using them. I'm sure it's the best plan but I don't remember ever seen anyone talk about it here so I thought I'd ask. Any other mods and/or recommendations while I have them opened up? Thanks

Punch 200ix DSM
Punch 240x4 DSM
Punch 4080 DSM


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## lostthumb

It might be good to get them serviced (recapped). You've got a nice set of amps. Currently, I am in the process of recapping amps from the 90s. TrickyRicky is doing them for me.


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## HiloDB1

I can recommend drumcrusher. He did a bunch of Audio System Twister amps for me. Great work and used really high quality parts.


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## soccerguru607

First like to know if they power up and have clear sound. you should recap at least all power supply caps but also many of the small smd mini caps. Please PM me and I can show you which.

Edit. I think ISM is talking about doing the recap himself?


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## lsm

Yes I am planning to do the work myself just thought I'd ask around the forum to see what you all thought. I'm surprised that I don't see more topics about recapping these old amps cause they are pretty good performers. 

I'm going to bench test them tonight and then go from there. Thx all


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## lsm

They all tested good! Gut pics:


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## soccerguru607

To honest with you all caps looks pretty good. I do not see bulging or spills on or around them. Circuit boards all looks nice and excellent. Maybe these amp have not been used much or long. If you still want to recap I would suggest new heat sink paste also because these amps can get quite hot when driven hard. 20 year old paste are probably dried up now. Also, you can upgrade main caps that are 35v, 3300uf, 85c to like 35v, 4700uf, 105c. I generally will upgrade them when I recap but keep voltage same. Just make sure bigger caps will fit.


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## soccerguru607

Oh, also Maybe resolder remote pin. Connect / tie up a piece wire at back of remote legs will give you sturdier connection


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## lsm

soccerguru607 said:


> To honest with you all caps looks pretty good. I do not see bulging or spills on or around them. Circuit boards all looks nice and excellent. Maybe these amp have not been used much or long. If you still want to recap I would suggest new heat sink paste also because these amps can get quite hot when driven hard. 20 year old paste are probably dried up now. Also, you can upgrade main caps that are 35v, 3300uf, 85c to like 35v, 4700uf, 105c. I generally will upgrade them when I recap but keep voltage same. Just make sure bigger caps will fit.[/QUOTE
> 
> The caps all do look to be in good shape and the amps definitely have low hours..I've had them away packed in a box for 10+ years. I bought a can of Electronics Cleaner from RadioShack a few mins ago so later tonight I'm going to spray down the boards, they could use a good cleaning. I will prob recap them if nothing else to upgrade the parts as you suggested and replace the heat sink grease. Any suggestions as to parts manufacturers? I know a lot of people here use Panasonic also is there any advantages to using "Silver" heat sink paste? They had some at the Shack but it was 4x the price of the regular heat sink paste...


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## cajunner

this might be wrong advice, but I'd put money into the replacement Kapton film tape that goes under the transistors, before dropping extra on super fancy thermal paste.

it appears that Rockford might use expensive silicone type tape, so I'd try to replace it with something OEM if I could, when changing out the dried thermal paste.

I wonder if the paste is dried, actually. 


And a little isopropyl alcohol with some q-tips might clean off the dust/grime, enough rather than dousing the boards in solvent, with an oil film component.

could be way off on that too, I'm not in the refurbishing business but Electronics cleaner being used on a perfectly good board that's a little dusty, might be overkill. And I say that, because there is a film sometimes applied to boards, that is there to prevent oxidation and if you use Electronics cleaner, it could strip away the protective parts just to cosmetically clean it.


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## [email protected]

If you decide to replace the snap in caps (rail caps), make sure you are careful, they are tricky compared to radial leads, you can pull a via up. I would just leave them if it was me and do any radial leaded ones.


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## lsm

I think for now I'm just going to clean up the boards and check to make sure the heat-sink paste isn't dried up. There wasn't any white dust inside so thats a good thing lol.


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## soccerguru607

I personally prefer Nichicon but I think Panasonic is just as good. I used them for recap in the past. Just to read to see what each model caps is best for.
I never used silver based compound but I would think they might transfer heat better. Just like using silver solder for better connection/electric flow. I use silicon based.
As for replace with kapton if original looks semi ripped or old it will be fine. I use kapton type when replace original. I buy them in large roll up sheets.
If you never done recap the snap on can be a pain. You need enough heat to melt old solder and good sucker pump. And skill to pull legs out slowly without tearing visa off. I would use solder gun tip to push their leg to middle of the hole. So easier to pull them out. Maybe try that first on an blown amp you don't care for as practice.


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## TrickyRicky

I see "HFQ" those leak so beware of damage traces (thats if they are not workign).

PS: All (if not most) caps have a date of manufacture, yours look to be from 1995.


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## The Dude

I had a Punch 40DSM I bought new in 93/94, used it for about 16 years straight without a hitch. Only retired it because the remote turn on tab had broken away from the board. Tough amps as you all know.


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## cajunner

if anyone wonders if the longevity of surface mounted devices is questionable in the automotive environment, barring any EMP or nuclear events it looks to be as least as durable as through-hole, and possibly more durable.


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## lsm

I love these old Punch amps!

My first competition system was way back in '92 in a Geo Storm. It had (4) HIFI17JVX Polydax midbass drivers, a set of Boston Pro 4" components, and an Oz Audio 10" all running passive off a Punch 60. Hard to believe that was 22 years ago...


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## drumcrusher

I recapped a 400x4 a while back. So many surface mounted parts that i decided to replace a lot of them with through hole "audio" caps for the hell of it. It looks cooler inside but doesn't sound much different. I saw somebody on here bypassing the crossovers i believe and modding them to do class A. Not sure how far you want to go with youre mods but, that would be cool. My 400x4 gets hot already, if it was class a it would seriously need some fans on it i believe.


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## ATOMICTECH62

If you are going to change out caps,swap out those TL072's for OPA2134's while your in there.


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## Matt R

The pots are often the first thing to go in these amps. Might want to be proactive and replace them.


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## lsm

Thanks again for all the good info.


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## drumcrusher

It would probably be a good idea to resolder the RCA connections where they meet the board. A lot of the get loose and create static when you go over bumps or anything like that. Just dump a bunch of solder there and it should be good for a few years. Those types of connectors tend to bend sometimes when connecting the plugs, causing them to lose the solid contact.


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## MAIDEN69

Other than the heatsink paste, anything else that can go bad from age only? You mentioned the caps. I assume that is from heat and years of service that they would go bad. My amps are new but are old. A Fosgate Power 800A2, Punch 800A4, & Punch 600A4. Also a new Phoenix Gold Titanium series 500.4.
Should I pop them open to inspect before firing them up? If the paste is dry, what is the procedure?


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## cajunner

any time you open an amp, you run the risk of doing damage that could potentially waste a lot of money getting it fixed, like when you pull up some traces as an inexperienced solder skill set.

new old stock, or never run amps, would likely still have paste with thermal properties working since they haven't run hard and dried out the thin film that sits between the metal parts.

as a precaution, for someone who is willing to take the risk, it might be worthwhile but if you damage the insulators that keep things from contacting each other, you may not even know it until after you put it back together and it shorted.

if I had new-old amps, I'd look at the caps for leakage, corrosion, oxidation.. but if they looked nice, I'd fire the amps up and burn them in for an hour on about 1/8th rated RMS watts, which should heat the amps up nicely.

If the amps are rated for say, 50 watts @ 4 ohms, then you push them for a 6 watt continuous output, after an hour you should get a decent warm-up cycle.

then I'd let them cool for a couple hours, then install.

I wouldn't change out the caps unless there were signs they needed changing, or had a known cap problem/issue like the PG amps.


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## MAIDEN69

I popped the 3 amps open I plan to use. The PG Titanium 500.4, the RF Power 800A2, and the RF Punch 800A4. None had Panasonic caps, as I'm sure you already know.
They all have Nichicon caps. The thermal grease on the two Fosgates seems fine. It is still malleable. I assume I should be good. The PG you can't really see any grease in there.
Thought I would show the guts of these 3. Any opinions on these models? Reliability, sound quality, output? Have you had to repair many?
In order: PG Ti500.4/Punch 800A2/Power 800A2


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## HardCoreDore

As far as these old Punch amps, the ones I used I'm the past were pretty much bulletproof. Changing caps and thermal paste is always a good idea after 20 years, but otherwise I'd throw those suckers in and hook them up. 

Granted, I'm no tech but I have owned all 3 of the amps the OP has except for the Punch 200. I had a Punch 100 on sub.


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