# Need my Carputer to boot faster



## Ge0

I'm building a carPC who's sole purpose is to sample audio, process it, and then spit it back out through multiple channels

Looking for an ultra minimalistic Winders XP install. Something that will allow full boot in under 20 seconds.

I remember coming across a site a long time ago that focused on getting Winders to boot ultra fast. I just can't remember what it was.

Things I'll still need:

1.) Wi-fi USB adapter
2.) Connect to the machine via WinVNC or something of the likes.
3.) Basic keyboard and mouse
4.) Firewire port
5.) Audio subsystem
6.) I think Winderz medea playa
7.) ???

I can give up:
1.) Anything that makes the GUI look fancy.
2.) All network security type of stuff.
3.) Anything associated with a display (won't need one I think)
4.) Any and all useless programs that do photo editing, word processing, web browsing, video playback, porn, more porn, instant messaging, virus scanning, porn, etc...

Anyone know where to start?

Ge0


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## 8675309

First download a program called bootvis

Download BootVis 1.3.37.0 - BootVis - Microsoft tool to provide faster XP boot and resume times - Softpedia

Second 
Go into Msconfig on your run option

type msconfig in run

Click the services tab and check the hide all microsoft services. Uncheck anything that you do not need.

Click the startup tab and do the same thing. 

Click apply and restart.

I usually do not run anything in startup except my antivirus and wifi stuff. In your case you could move your windows media player icon into the startup section in your all programs.

Load the bootvis and run the process. I usually let mine run 20 or so times. 

The last carputer I used had a 1.2 gig processor with 1 gig of ram. I was able to get it to boot from dead in 28 seconds.

Only thing I ran was road runner, winamp, and windows. 

Good luck


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## kcdonahue

Not sure if this one will help with your carputer.... but I use this sites reccomendations on my home computer.

Windows XP x86 (32-bit) Service Pack 3 Service Configurations by Black Viper


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## BlaqJack

You could always go the Linux route (Xubuntu 8.10 for example). Just go base OS plus programs needed. It will be extremely lite and boot very fast. And to connect to it you could use any of the free remote desktop software for it ex. FreeNX. Just a little more configuration on your part. Another option outside of Windows ( I really don't like Windows to much ).


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## bass_lover1

Solid state drive is your best option. Never used one, but pretty sure I've seen vids on youtube of XP booting in less than 10 seconds.


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## BLACKonBLACK98

nLite - Deployment Tool for the bootable Unattended Windows installation


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## WuNgUn

There is also hibernation, which is what most of us carputer guys do already.


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## t3sn4f2

Do you have remote door locks? Does the dome light turn on when you unlock the doors? You can setup a circuit to trigger the on switch of the smart PSU from the dome light power. If you get use to unlocking your doors right when you step outside your house or are near the car and it could knock off a good bit of time. 

My home PC with XP even shuts back down if nothing is input within a few minutes of coming out of hibernation. So even if you accidentally trigger it while walking away or something, it will shut back down on its own and not drain your bat.

You can also setup a bypass circuit so the remote turn on for the rest of the system does not receive the turn on signal from the smart PSU unless your ignition is turned on. That way there is no sound or system until you get in the car and turn the key.


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## michaelsil1

bass_lover1 said:


> Solid state drive is your best option. Never used one, but pretty sure I've seen vids on youtube of XP booting in less than 10 seconds.


Solid State would Boot much Faster; I'm not sure of the cost it was very expensive.


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## MarkZ

For a while I was using Win98, just because it would boot incredibly fast.

Hibernation will speed things up too. And the benefit of it is that your audio processing programs will remain loaded and configured. I use audiomulch and it saves me from having to open it and load the configuration file.


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## bretti_kivi

...
nlite

and EWF if you need it. Strip the install big time with Nlite, I have a p III 1.0 GHz booting in less than 30s. I can drop that using EWF, resume from hibernate would be faster.

What's the soundcard? If you're using ASIO, you might not have hibernate available to you as ASIO is apparently picky.

Bret


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## dbiegel

When I had a carputer I "cheated" a bit and wired the power adapter to turn it on and start booting when I unlocked my doors from the alarm remote..

Unlike you, I was not willing to give up porn for faster boot times. 

I'm sure you checked mp3car.com? Lots of info there and talented people experienced with carputers.


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## DaleCarter

I saw something on mp3.com about a "lite" version of XP. I a not sure about it.

If I ever go carputer, it will be Mac Mini.


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## michaelsil1

dbiegel said:


> Unlike you, I was not willing to give up porn for faster boot times.


Danny,

I'm shocked.


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## RedGTiVR6

BlaqJack said:


> You could always go the Linux route (Xubuntu 8.10 for example). Just go base OS plus programs needed. It will be extremely lite and boot very fast. And to connect to it you could use any of the free remote desktop software for it ex. FreeNX. Just a little more configuration on your part. Another option outside of Windows ( I really don't like Windows to much ).


What front end do you suggest to use with *nix?


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## RedGTiVR6

DaleCarter said:


> I saw something on mp3.com about a "lite" version of XP. I a not sure about it.
> 
> If I ever go carputer, it will be Mac Mini.


nlite has been mentioned a few times.

I would seriously rethink the mac mini thing if I were you. I can't tell you how many times ppl have said that then really given it second thoughts.

Good read: Why DIDN"T you choose a MacMini as you CarPC? - MP3Car.com


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## RedGTiVR6

michaelsil1 said:


> Solid State would Boot much Faster; I'm not sure of the cost it was very expensive.


FRYS.com

Prices have dropped considerably.

This will be the single best thing you can do. Run all your media off of a secondary drive and OS and programs off of the SSD.


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## MarkZ

RedGTiVR6 said:


> FRYS.com
> 
> Prices have dropped considerably.
> 
> This will be the single best thing you can do. Run all your media off of a secondary drive and OS and programs off of the SSD.


That's terrific. I assume it works well in cold temperatures? In my experience, regular hard drives tend to struggle below about 20F (I get down to about 13F with my Seagate though).


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## RedGTiVR6

yeup, they sure do, no spinning parts, unlike the other drives.

If you have issues with cold temps, you should have moved to the automotive drives anyways.....or just go to SSD. If you have a lot of media, go SSD and automotive HDD combo, just get ready to pay for it.

They are the same drives that the auto manufacturers are using, so you know they will work down to lower temps.


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## MarkZ

Well I'm notoriously cheap, so I've always used the cheaper drives. It only gets below 20 a few days a year anyway around here. But now that the prices are coming down, you're absolutely right.

So...to veer this back on topic, how much faster are these drives? And why don't people seem to be using them in high performance home systems? In other words, what's the downside?


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## 8675309

SSD prices have really dropped over the last year.

Not only do they boot faster they hold up in cold weather.



RedGTiVR6 said:


> yeup, they sure do, no spinning parts, unlike the other drives.
> 
> If you have issues with cold temps, you should have moved to the automotive drives anyways.....or just go to SSD. If you have a lot of media, go SSD and automotive HDD combo, just get ready to pay for it.
> 
> They are the same drives that the auto manufacturers are using, so you know they will work down to lower temps.


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## Knobby Digital

MarkZ said:


> In other words, what's the downside?


Cost and capacity.


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## RedGTiVR6

MarkZ said:


> Well I'm notoriously cheap, so I've always used the cheaper drives. It only gets below 20 a few days a year anyway around here. But now that the prices are coming down, you're absolutely right.
> 
> So...to veer this back on topic, how much faster are these drives? And why don't people seem to be using them in high performance home systems? In other words, what's the downside?


Up until the past year - price

size has been the big issue for most ppl. if you want a huge drive you're still going to pay out of your nose for them.


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## bass_lover1

MarkZ said:


> Well I'm notoriously cheap, so I've always used the cheaper drives. It only gets below 20 a few days a year anyway around here. But now that the prices are coming down, you're absolutely right.
> 
> So...to veer this back on topic, how much faster are these drives? And why don't people seem to be using them in high performance home systems? In other words, what's the downside?



Largest SSD currently is 256GB, and as the size goes up so does the price, to the point where you can get about 7TB worth of normal HDD storage.

Like I said, a small one for the OS and main programs would be your best option, and you can get away with a 16-32 GB SSD in the 100-150 range, then use your normal HDD for the rest of your media.


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## MarkZ

bass_lover1 said:


> Largest SSD currently is 256GB, and as the size goes up so does the price, to the point where you can get about 7TB worth of normal HDD storage.
> 
> Like I said, a small one for the OS and main programs would be your best option, and you can get away with a 16-32 GB SSD in the 100-150 range, then use your normal HDD for the rest of your media.


Looks like the site Jan linked to has 128GB ones for $250 or thereabouts, unless I'm reading it wrong. That would be just enough for my OS, GPS data, and my music collection. I'm going to strongly consider it. Thanks for the links guys, and thanks for letting me threadjack Geo.


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## RedGTiVR6

> Like I said, a small one for the OS and main programs would be your best option, and you can get away with a 16-32 GB SSD in the 100-150 range, then use your normal HDD for the rest of your media.


Where did you mention this?


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## BlaqJack

RedGTiVR6 said:


> What front end do you suggest to use with *nix?


FreeNX Setup

Shows how to set up FreeNX. For a carputer Xubuntu.


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## WuNgUn

SSD are a waste of money...they are small, expensive and their MTTF still sucks...
What's more, is they actually AREN'T that much faster at booting up your PC.


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## MarkZ

What's "MTTF"?


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## michaelsil1

MarkZ said:


> What's "MTTF"?


Mean Time To Failure


http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bianca/fast07.pdf


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## RedGTiVR6

it depends on which ssd you go with, some aren't any faster, some are.


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## WuNgUn

RedGTiVR6 said:


> it depends on which ssd you go with, some aren't any faster, some are.


Wow...what's even WORSE than the extraordinary price over HDD, is that some of them aren't even any faster!!!

Unless your subjecting your media, whether it HDD or SSD, to extreme vibration/shock/temp extremes, I wouldn't bother...
HDD are pretty happy in most auto environments...just make sure you mount them vertically!
Optimize your OS with nLite, config your services, msconfig what isn't necessary, defrag with DiskTrix with the Hibernate and pagefile on the outer platter regions, followed by your Windows files, and used hibernation, so long as you don't have 16GB of RAM (!), and be happy you saved a few hundred bucks!


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## t3sn4f2

RedGTiVR6 said:


> it depends on which ssd you go with, some aren't any faster, some are.


Does the same go for both write and read speed? I thought I remember reading somewhere that they do good on reading not writing, wouldn't that be an issue for OS operations?


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## RedGTiVR6

that's the case for CF for sure, not always the case for SSD. Remember, the two are not the same...


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## bretti_kivi

Linux - does something like allocator exist?

those of you with no weather issues, be happy; I have a 30GB endurastar here and I'll be dumpíng choons onto USB sticks. XP boots pretty quick, I might need to do some testing. If it doesn't stop snowing, I might even get the PC software install improved this weekend.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi

Linux - does something like allocator exist?

those of you with no weather issues, be happy; I have a 30GB endurastar here and I'll be dumpíng choons onto USB sticks. XP boots pretty quick, I might need to do some testing. If it doesn't stop snowing, I might even get the PC software install improved this weekend.

Bret


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## Ge0

bretti_kivi said:


> ...
> nlite
> 
> and EWF if you need it. Strip the install big time with Nlite, I have a p III 1.0 GHz booting in less than 30s. I can drop that using EWF, resume from hibernate would be faster.
> 
> What's the soundcard? If you're using ASIO, you might not have hibernate available to you as ASIO is apparently picky.
> 
> Bret


Hmmm, good point... Using an external Edirol FA-101 via Firewire interface. I needed to go this route to get the channel count I need.

Ge0


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## Ge0

BlaqJack said:


> You could always go the Linux route (Xubuntu 8.10 for example). Just go base OS plus programs needed. It will be extremely lite and boot very fast. And to connect to it you could use any of the free remote desktop software for it ex. FreeNX. Just a little more configuration on your part. Another option outside of Windows ( I really don't like Windows to much ).


My apps were designed to run under winXP. I'm affraid Linux is out of the question.

Ge0


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## MarkZ

WuNgUn said:


> HDD are pretty happy in most auto environments...just make sure you mount them vertically!


I just read this now. What's the significance of vertical?



> Optimize your OS with nLite, config your services, msconfig what isn't necessary, defrag with DiskTrix with the Hibernate and pagefile on the outer platter regions, followed by your Windows files, and used hibernation, so long as you don't have 16GB of RAM (!), and be happy you saved a few hundred bucks!


Won't the hibernation sort of ruin the point of defragging? My understanding is that hibernation wreaks havoc on your fragmentation. No?


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## Ge0

I will not be loading music media on this machine. All it will do is sample, process, and then spit signal back out over 10 channels. This is tasking enough on the processor.

I've been contemplating the SSD route. My local puter store has smaller capacity (32gig) drives for around the $80 mark. It's worth a shot.

But, perhaps I'll try some other optimizations using the existing drive first.

Thanks for your input everyone. I have some research and experimentation to do.

Ge0


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## MarkZ

Ge0 said:


> I will not be loading music media on this machine. All it will do is sample, process, and then spit signal back out over 10 channels. This is tasking enough on the processor.


Cool. What are you using? I'm using audiomulch on 6 channels, and it uses about 25% of the CPU, which is a dual core something or other. Rubberfilter, voxengo delay and phase, and a mixer for the sub and center.


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## RedGTiVR6

Ge0 said:


> Hmmm, good point... Using an external Edirol FA-101 via Firewire interface. I needed to go this route to get the channel count I need.
> 
> Ge0


careful with ewf & nlite.

while it will give you faster boot times and let you run faster, many times you will run into issues with the various front ends out there. If you've disabled a service or run into an issue and can't seem to track it down, chances are it's related to EWF or nLite.

I can't tell you how many times i ran into this when working for Mp3Car then for Centrafuse. Customer would swear up and down that it wasn't their install only to find out it was.

If no one else is reporting it, chances are, it's your install...


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## RedGTiVR6

MarkZ said:


> I just read this now. What's the significance of vertical?


when you hit something, the head doen't crash into the platters.





> Won't the hibernation sort of ruin the point of defragging? My understanding is that hibernation wreaks havoc on your fragmentation. No?


set up a defrag every month or so and you're good. besides, if you're not actually sing the computer to move files around, etc. you should be fine anyways.


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## WuNgUn

MarkZ said:


> I just read this now. What's the significance of vertical?
> 
> 
> 
> Won't the hibernation sort of ruin the point of defragging? My understanding is that hibernation wreaks havoc on your fragmentation. No?


If you mount the drive flat, then the platers and heads are perpidicular to any bumps or jarring...
If the head contacts any of the platters, that's it for your drive!
If you mount it vertically, you much less likely to risk contact as the heads are travelling parallel to the road bumps...

The hibernate files is a file the same size as your memory, i.e. 1GB of RAM, 1GB hiberate file...
When you turn on hibernation, Windows creates this file in one piece, so it has to be in a place where there is enough contiguous space...
And if your drive is fragged, this file won't be in the optimum read/write position, which is the very outer edge (physically) of the drive platter.
When you use DiskTrix, you can set it up to move the hibernate file to the first position on the HDD, speeding up read/write access (because the platters are spinning faster at the outer edge).
Once it's in position and you leave hibernate on, it will always stay in that disk position.
It won't cause anything to get fragged. When your PC resumes, it reads just from that file, and when you hibernate, it writes just to that file...


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## MarkZ

RedGTiVR6 said:


> set up a defrag every month or so and you're good. besides, if you're not actually sing the computer to move files around, etc. you should be fine anyways.


Yep. I was just wondering about the potential effect of fragmentation on boot time. Defragging is hard. It's not often that I go out and let my car run for a half hour just so that the machine can defrag.


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## RedGTiVR6

would you never sit and listen to your car for a half hour at a time?

Sure, in an ideal world you shouldn't do anything on a computer while defragging, but seriously, we're not talking about a critical server here....set it to defrag, listen to some music. Problem solved.


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## MarkZ

WuNgUn said:


> If you mount the drive flat, then the platers and heads are perpidicular to any bumps or jarring...
> If the head contacts any of the platters, that's it for your drive!
> If you mount it vertically, you much less likely to risk contact as the heads are travelling parallel to the road bumps...


Interesting. I've had my computers mounted both ways in the past, but I'll aim for vertical when at all possible. I didn't think that the bump/jarring vector was only in the vertical direction, although it makes sense that it's dominant in vertical. FWIW, I've been running hard drives in the car for nearly 10 years and never had a hard drive fail. [Just had one fail in the house about two weeks ago though ]


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## MarkZ

RedGTiVR6 said:


> would you never sit and listen to your car for a half hour at a time?
> 
> Sure, in an ideal world you shouldn't do anything on a computer while defragging, but seriously, we're not talking about a critical server here....set it to defrag, listen to some music. Problem solved.


But doesn't a defrag yell at you when you access the drive? Listening to music continuously accesses the drive. I guess it's worth a shot though.


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## RedGTiVR6

WuNgUn said:


> If you mount the drive flat, then the platers and heads are perpidicular to any bumps or jarring...
> If the head contacts any of the platters, that's it for your drive!
> If you mount it vertically, you much less likely to risk contact as the heads are travelling parallel to the road bumps...


I've run nothing BUT a full size drive for over 5 years now. I've replaced it once and that was only to switch from IDE to SATA. I've been running the same SATA drive for 3 years and JUST within the last month did I actually HAVE to reinstall Windows for the first time due to corruption.

Vertically is (imho) the only way to go for a platter drive in the car, and mounted firmly at that. All these guys that try and over think it and do all of this shock mounting bs...just fighting it. Mount the drive firmly and be done with it.


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## bass_lover1

WuNgUn said:


> If you mount the drive flat, then the platers and heads are perpidicular to any bumps or jarring...
> If the head contacts any of the platters, that's it for your drive!
> If you mount it vertically, you much less likely to risk contact as the heads are travelling parallel to the road bumps...
> 
> The hibernate files is a file the same size as your memory, i.e. 1GB of RAM, 1GB hiberate file...
> When you turn on hibernation, Windows creates this file in one piece, so it has to be in a place where there is enough contiguous space...
> And if your drive is fragged, this file won't be in the optimum read/write position, which is the very outer edge (physically) of the drive platter.
> When you use DiskTrix, you can set it up to move the hibernate file to the first position on the HDD, speeding up read/write access (*because the platters are spinning faster at the outer edge*).
> Once it's in position and you leave hibernate on, it will always stay in that disk position.
> It won't cause anything to get fragged. When your PC resumes, it reads just from that file, and when you hibernate, it writes just to that file...


Just nit picking here....no they aren't  They're moving at the same rate of speed as the rest of the platter, they just cover a greater distance in a given time frame.


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## WuNgUn

lol
I think your still wrong 
They are moving at the SAME RPM...not the same speed.
Speed is a division of distance and time. If it travels more distance over the same time span, it must be moving faster 

Also, defragging isn't something you need to do regularly on a carputer...
I setup all my media to the inner portion of the platters, and my OS/Program files/hibernate and page files to the outer edge...
DiskTrix allows you to ignore certain files if you wish (my media), so I only do a consolidate defrag once in a while of the 'high performance' files, and it only takes a few minutes...


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## sedtc

nlite will be the key to speeding up your boot. my xp sp 2 image is ~200 MB and boots pretty quickly. i've stripped out all the unnecessary bloat that isn't needed in the car and can still run roadrunner, audio, gps software, and just about anything else needed in the car. undoubtedly, one can shrink the image even more but i achieved my goal of speeding up the windows loading process without sacrificing functionality. let me know if you're interested in going the nlite route, i'm sure i still have the settings from my build. 

one additional tip is to do away with the optical drive, that alone shaved quite a few seconds off of my boot time. i keep my dvd drive in the car and only connect it when needed. also make sure that your bios is optimized for quick boot up. 

i personally use a 250 gig drive with 3 partitions, 2 X 7gig partitions with windows/apps on both and media on the remaining 220gb of space. if something happens to one xp partition, i can switch to the other one with ease and i don't have to reformat the entire drive if i need to reinstall. lesson learned after one xp install became corrupted beyond repair.


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## bass_lover1

WuNgUn said:


> lol
> I think your still wrong
> They are moving at the SAME RPM...not the same speed.
> Speed is a division of distance and time. If it travels more distance over the same time span, it must be moving faster
> 
> Also, defragging isn't something you need to do regularly on a carputer...
> I setup all my media to the inner portion of the platters, and my OS/Program files/hibernate and page files to the outer edge...
> DiskTrix allows you to ignore certain files if you wish (my media), so I only do a consolidate defrag once in a while of the 'high performance' files, and it only takes a few minutes...


 By rate of speed, you are correct I meant to write RPM. They're rotational velocity is the same, but the tangential velocity is different. Which is what allows the outer portion of the platter to cover a greater distance given the same time.


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