# KAXBLTWT GROUPBUY



## mwmkravchenko

The KAXBLTWT​


​
Groupbuy​

The specs are as follows:

Re = 6.3336 ohm
Fs = 505.2810 Hz 
Zmax = 13.0293 ohm
Ro = 9.0532 ohm
Fs = 792.2568 Hz 
Fmin = 2.6305 kHz 
Qes = 1.4457 
Qms = 1.5284 
Qts = 0.7430 
Le = 0.0000 H @1k
XLe = 7.8166 ohm @1k



Here is the impedance and phase plot. The Fs of the driver is at the highest point on the red line. 792 hertz. 



This is a comparison between another once available XBL tweeter and the KAXBLTWT.

There is no smoothing on this graph. The KAXBLTWT falls within a 2.5 db window. If there is even 1/12th octave smoothing it looks almost like a flat line. Put this same measurement through the standard 1/3 octave marketing filter and you get a flat line.

This is a very well behave little tweeter.

Some idea as to consistency between pieces:



9 samples measured without any faceplate. Yes the faceplate has a lot to do with keeping the response smoother! The lone black line is the Comparison with the LD25X again with no faceplate.

The KAXBLTWT samples are within +/-1.5 db of each other. 

Can you say tight QC?




The basic elements of what I am putting together for a faceplate looks like this:



Yes stolen off of a Google image search. But this is pretty much what I have up my sleeve. Designed to fit in a 2 inch or 50mm hole. Will have a 3mm flange around the edge to cover the cut, and a few ribs on the outside edge to keep them in place. 

There will be fastons on the back for connection.

As of right now these are going to be unbranded. Branding will mean a lot more money sunk into things that have nothing to do with sound quality. Tooling a logo into the bezel will cost a boat load of money.


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## mwmkravchenko

Consistency. There were some good tweeters in the LD25X batch. The first two top trays in the shipment. Standard manufacturers tricks. Put the good ones on top.

I work with a factory where every part of the build is checked. Every motor is tested for a go/nogo on motor strength. Every dome/coil assembly is weighed. The glue is metered. The glue metering is tested every 20 minutes. The entire driver run is checked for Fs within a 3 db window on a ClioQC system. These guys are as crazy as me in terms as quality control.



Here you get to see the measurement system, and the upper and lower limits of acceptability. The response in the test enclosure is not flat. What you look for is repeatability. We keep the margin of error with a plus or minus 1.5db window. The central line is the actual device under test. And we calibrate the measurement every so often with the measured and verified prototypes. If they don't pass here they are rejected. There is no B stock!



Here are the actual settings within Clio QC



Yes those two ladies actually test every single motor at 4 points for flux density. 12 3 6 9 on the clock. Verifies that we have a consistent flux density. And keeps all the drivers consistent. If they don't pass this test they go back to the charging station. If they fail after a seconf charging they become paper weights. The world needs more paper weights.



Genuine Ferro Fluid. Not the knock off stuff. It's $1400 U.S. per liter. But you get what you pay for.



True automatic, metered dispensing system.



Regular glue dispensing is measured for QC, mass, consistency, setting times.



Yep the giant chrome dome is me making sure things are being done correctly. I work there from time to time spitting out interesting driver designs.


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## mwmkravchenko

The nitty gritty.

Final price after all my negotiations with the faceplate vendor is for this tweeter to sell as a two pc set. They will all come with a faceplate.

$125/pair shipped​
Option 2​ 
No faceplate and $95.​ Take note of the response without a faceplate.​


Shipping will be by expedited parcel post with a tracking number.





Payment:

50% down payment to secure your tweeters. 50% when my tweeter shipment arrives. I'll post the tracking numbers for you guys to watch the shipment coming from China. When final payment is confirmed by each person then I ship. You get the tracking numbers to prove shipment.

Payment method. Paypal. I absorb the 3% fees.

Delivery within 60 days of this groupbuy. So end of August or sooner. I can make it sooner with shipping via my air freight account. 

If there is demand I can increase the run size. As of today the run size is set at 100pcs total.



All parcels will ship from my workplace/home close to Ottawa Canada. You can find me if you are determined.

All those interested PM me and we can set things up.


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## teldzc1

PM sent!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## ANT

Bump for the vendor!

ANT


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## Weightless

Pm sent

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


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## mwmkravchenko

A couple questions have been asked.

Crossover point?

The tweeters Fs is around 800 hertz. The steeper the crossover slope you use the lower you will be successful at using. A third order slope will be the minimum if you want anything near to 1500 hertz. If you can go with a higher slope you can drop it a bit.

But be careful! A burnt out tweeter is not a happy tweeter. ( Really no kidding )


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## mwmkravchenko

I'd like some idea what kind of Xmax, power handling, or max reasonable dB we're talking about here.

Thanks!

Matt

This driver has a X-max of around 1.6 mm

So maximum SPL is directly related to a few things.

Crossover frequency. And power handling.

I'll run a few simulations to give you a graph showing this.


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## req

In it to win in it. This will be much easier to do than the large format ldx25.


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## cajunner

very tempting to get in on this, but is it a group buy deal, or are you going to charge 115 a pair for the say, 30 pairs that don't sell in the group buy as a listing in the classifieds?


meaning, do I wait and pay the same, or will the price magically rise if not in on the first turn out/deposit list?

hard for me to dedicate funds but after seeing the SI BM IV shallow sub group buy/pre-sale, it's almost a lock to get into this venture with an enthusiasm...


because you are almost assured if you don't use them, you can get out what you put in later on should that necessity befall you...


I guess what I'm saying is, will these come with individual test read-outs quality control, and hand matching for response and impedance?

that would get some people off the fence, if they could get that personal touch that the bigger guys can't do. 


I mean, it looks like you're getting a Chinese build house to churn these out, but you know the old ladies testing the magnetic parts, so...


is this a joint assembly venture, where most of the parts are coming off a boat, and OH! CANADA! is doing the final testing?

I'm sorry, too muchy coffee this AM.

GROUP BUY, ME LIKEY.


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## teldzc1

Will there be a large format home version of this tweeter as well? Deposit sent. Excited to see how these work out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> very tempting to get in on this, but is it a group buy deal, or are you going to charge 115 a pair for the say, 30 pairs that don't sell in the group buy as a listing in the classifieds?
> 
> 
> meaning, do I wait and pay the same, or will the price magically rise if not in on the first turn out/deposit list?
> 
> hard for me to dedicate funds but after seeing the SI BM IV shallow sub group buy/pre-sale, it's almost a lock to get into this venture with an enthusiasm...
> 
> 
> because you are almost assured if you don't use them, you can get out what you put in later on should that necessity befall you...
> 
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is, will these come with individual test read-outs quality control, and hand matching for response and impedance?
> 
> that would get some people off the fence, if they could get that personal touch that the bigger guys can't do.
> 
> 
> I mean, it looks like you're getting a Chinese build house to churn these out, but you know the old ladies testing the magnetic parts, so...
> 
> 
> is this a joint assembly venture, where most of the parts are coming off a boat, and OH! CANADA! is doing the final testing?
> 
> I'm sorry, too muchy coffee this AM.
> 
> GROUP BUY, ME LIKEY.


Ok no more coffee for you!

But all Joking aside I appreciate your legitimate questions.


I work with this factory regularly.

I make my living in part as a driver engineering consultant.

This product is one of my current offerings to OEM's.

So short answer.

It is a proven product. In production. The production run will be large enough because this group buy is being used to top up the production run quantities.  The minimum is 250 pcs.

I know exactly what the costs are. The only cost that was in question was the mounting faceplate. 

So even if there are only a couple of dozen purchases I will still be able to complete paid for purchases and the shipping. 

As for the questions of a Chinese build house and old ladies.

Seriously.

This is an American owned and run build house. There are no old ladies, unless you are really young, but I take it you have finished college so you can't be that young!

As for quality and matching.

I don't think this has gotten through all the static yet.

Every single tweeter is QC'd in every conceivable way from start to finish. 

The Glue is metered and Measured

Motor strength

Cone Mass

Electrical and Acoustical Response.

Thiele/Small Parameters


They are all matching better than any company you could every buy products from to begin with. This is not a cheap Chinese build house. This is a build house that is very picky with whom they choose to work with. They can take or leave clients as they choose. Very high end.

Plus or minus 1.5 db matching window.

I, the designer, assemble them here in Canada from Canadian made tweeter bezel and a Chinese made tweeter.

I have been a hands on guy since I had hair. I still do work as a Carpenter and Cabinet Maker just to get away from staring at my computer each and every day. My Father and I built the house I live in. We did all the plumbing and electrical work to. Including pouring the foundation and clearing the forest that was here when we bought the land.

I think I can assemble little tweeters.

You can get the benefit of a built house that makes drivers for some very high end companies. The experience of a designer who has been in the business since 1989.

Your call.


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## mwmkravchenko

teldzc1 said:


> Will there be a large format home version of this tweeter as well? Deposit sent. Excited to see how these work out.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


A first deposit woohoooo!

So home use.

Of course.

I have optimised a faceplate for car use.

Home use will take a little longer.

But that can be arranged to.

The price will go up about $20 to cover the larger faceplates.

They are all being made on a CNC lathe. The runs are simply not large enough to make injection molding an option.

The only other option would be to 3D print them.

But that is no small commitment on my end to setup a quality 3D printer.


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## mwmkravchenko

Give me until tonight to have the SPL questions put up.

I have done all the calculations, just that I have to go out this afternoon.


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## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> A first deposit woohoooo!


Looks like I am the second deposit


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## miniSQ

These are so close to fitting an opening I have in my lower door panel, that is 58mm. But I think the flange is just a tad too small and will not be large enough without falling thru the opening.


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## mwmkravchenko

Not going to make custom faceplates. That will cost me a small fortune.

If you know someone with a 3D printer you are not in so much trouble.

If I sold a couple hundred tweeters heck I'd buy a 3D printer and print custom faceplates.


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## miniSQ

i do have a cnc router, and a laser engraver, i should be able to fabricate some kind of spacer. Where do i sign?


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## req

Shapeways - Design, buy, and sell products with 3D Printing

mwmkravchenko - get an account, upload a home-style faceplate model, and open the model to the public for sale. they cant get measurements or downlow the 3D file, but they can order a 3D printed copy of it.

if somone decides to ask for a faceplace that is a slightly different shape - it is a 2 minute modification in your 3D software plus upload.

it would make for the most custom 'tweeter bezel' manufacture ever lol. and the customer absorbs the cost of 3D printing (as well as the ablility to choose from loads of finishes) plus i think you get a comission from the sale.

cheers


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## mwmkravchenko

req said:


> Shapeways - Design, buy, and sell products with 3D Printing
> 
> mwmkravchenko - get an account, upload a home-style faceplate model, and open the model to the public for sale. they cant get measurements or downlow the 3D file, but they can order a 3D printed copy of it.
> 
> if somone decides to ask for a faceplace that is a slightly different shape - it is a 2 minute modification in your 3D software plus upload.
> 
> it would make for the most custom 'tweeter bezel' manufacture ever lol. and the customer absorbs the cost of 3D printing (as well as the ablility to choose from loads of finishes) plus i think you get a comission from the sale.
> 
> cheers


Ever check what they would charge for such a trinket?

It's over $50 a piece.

I think that is a bit over the top for a piece of plastic.


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## cajunner

here's a good pattern:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_wUDOCViv9D0/S0j4vzJoa4I/AAAAAAAACa4/mwiIfOx-gKg/s800/JBLs2.jpg


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## mwmkravchenko

A good pattern for a teeny tiny tweeter!


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## mwmkravchenko

So no coffee O.D. this morning!


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## req

mwmkravchenko said:


> Ever check what they would charge for such a trinket?
> 
> It's over $50 a piece.
> 
> I think that is a bit over the top for a piece of plastic.


yes i have, i 3D printed a bezel for my LCD in my car PC, and it was $100. so the prices might be cheaper than you are thinking. id say upload the model and see what the pricing is before you judge at $50\each. maybe $50\pair, maybe less.

all im saying, is that if somone needs\wants something like this, this is an option for them that you dont have to absorb any costs with or give out the 3D model specifications\drawings.

that is all.


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## mwmkravchenko

> yes i have, i 3D printed a bezel for my LCD in my car PC, and it was $100. so the prices might be cheaper than you are thinking. id say upload the model and see what the pricing is before you judge at $50\each. maybe $50\pair, maybe less.
> 
> all im saying, is that if somone needs\wants something like this, this is an option for them that you dont have to absorb any costs with or give out the 3D model specifications\drawings.
> 
> that is all.


I like to protect my work. There are enough companies around that have used my I.P. to make boat loads of cash and not paid me one red cent. The joys of working as a consultant.

So what I offer I make just a little bit harder to copy if someone is so inclined.

I may consider this.


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## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> I like to protect my work. There are enough companies around that have used my I.P. to make boat loads of cash and not paid me one red cent. The joys of working as a consultant.
> 
> So what I offer I make just a little bit harder to copy if someone is so inclined.
> 
> I may consider this.



I know the faceplate design basically dictates all sorts of nasty resonant bumps and crap in the FR but could you make these babies available with no faceplate, for the people who like to roll their own?


my local library just got a Makerbot and they say it costs 5 cents a gram, for the privilege of pushing resin through the aperture.


I mean, it's gonna be awesome if I can fab up my own super freak Geddes-inspired wunderbundt, acoustic waveguide.


I just need the ability to mate the tweeter body and the lens, with minimum fuss.


and a reduced rate, heck...


drop that 30 bucks a pair the buildhouse wants off the top, and I'll do the rest.


I'm going mathematical, BOYZ...



(caffeine is ON)


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## mwmkravchenko

One question for coffee boy.

How much support or you expecting?

And how are you going to model your faceplate?

Cuz it is not really all that simple.


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## cajunner

simple warranty for catastrophic failure, heck I'll buy them with no warranty if it drops the price enough.

the "not simple" part, is the fun stuff.


I like cationary profiles, exponential flares, tractrix with a plus .231 function added, whatever..

it's the idea that gets it going.


the natural thing for me, since the work's already been done, is to copy a known good design like the JBL EOS plate.

but, perhaps I decide to widen it just a little, or increase the depth, or just do a .7 percent, making it appx. 1/3 larger?

I understand I can do this with most of my tweeters that have removable faceplates, but I don't have XBL tweeters with extended throw and near-perfect resonant characteristics with ~800 hz Fs.

this would help a lot, I believe the potential is there for a mild gain, even with soft domes.


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## mwmkravchenko

I'll send you an invoice. $95 for 2 PCs.

Keep in clear that the faceplate makes or breaks the response.

If anyone else wants them without the faceplate the response is posted near the top.


Oh, no warranty for catastrophic failure.

But warranty to meet specs!


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## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> I'll send you an invoice. $95 for 2 PCs.
> 
> Keep in clear that the faceplate makes or breaks the response.
> 
> If anyone else wants them without the faceplate the response is posted near the top.
> 
> 
> Oh, no warranty for catastrophic failure.
> 
> But warranty to meet specs!



now we're talking!


and if I can get you to send me a pair for testing, on the cuff...


haha...


reminds me of the movie Barfly...


anyways, I am intrigued at your willingness to accommodate a single order modification, and I wonder if you are yourself, trying to produce a faceplate that doesn't trample on any intellectual property rights but finds an engineering angle to pursue...

even though it's probably all been done, already.


what I have in my favor is that I can copy anything and everything, and nobody can come for my tweeters since I'm not profiting on the plagiarist angle.

as long as I don't put the faceplate copies up for sale, I can 3-D print anybody's work.

that's the point I'm trying to make, we have our own little communism angle to exploit right now with your known quality drivers, and a little "scan design" work for the software that turns, say, the latest JBL Master Reference horn into my latest listening room acquisition...


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## teldzc1

Are faceplates designed specifically for each driver or can they be interchanged without much concern?

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## cajunner

teldzc1 said:


> Are faceplates designed specifically for each driver or can they be interchanged without much concern?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


not an engineer, 

<<<<


but, I would think that faceplate design is an integral part of any loudspeaker designer's conceptual design goals and any little thing, a millimeter and a half of something more or less, can make wide, 3 db shifts in the response.

faceplate design can include mild gain from horn loading effects, and it can also change the polar plot to include a few changes in dispersion pattern profiles.

think of a faceplate as a horn without gain, I guess.


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## mwmkravchenko

When I get back in front of a puter I'll post an explanation.


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## mwmkravchenko

Faceplates can be done in a generic fashion. So you may get a fortunate fit.

But a truly well designed faceplate works with the drivers raw response which I have shown you guys.

The face plate is used to create a number of things that are really important to the overall function of the tweeter.

A good loading for the tweeter where it is lacking, and a good termination between the tweeter and the faceplate itself.

Done right and you get a pretty good sounding tweeter.

There are other characteristics that are in play. controlling directivity over a certain area is also very important to the your there kind of feeling in a recording.

It can be done via some simulation programs that I use. And there has to be a degree of good old engineering horse sense in knowing what area to challenge and what to leave well enough.


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## sirbOOm

Can you describe the sound profile of these to the ear. Folks say Morels are warm, smooth; Focals (even the fabric ones) can be bright; etc., etc.


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## mwmkravchenko

sirbOOm said:


> Can you describe the sound profile of these to the ear. Folks say Morels are warm, smooth; Focals (even the fabric ones) can be bright; etc., etc.


Great question.

There are generalities in tweeters like you said, and there are exceptions.

The area in the response that makes the biggest difference in the sound of tweeters is from 2000 hertz to 6000 hertz. A rise in this area can really make a tweeter sound harsh, nasal. A dip can make a tweeter sound laid back.

What I shoot for is a slight dip, not measured directly straight on the tweeter but a little off to the sides, about 15 degrees. By slight I mean about a db. I try to roll the tweeter off gradually so there is a wide smooth gentle slop. It gives a nice warm sound because the lower tweeter range is slightly louder. 

My reference for how things sound comes from many years as a musician. (I played French Horn and Trumpet. I still play the trumpet, look at what a good French Horn costs and you will know why.)
And many concerts. Yes Classical music. I review for a website to. The real heavy metal ( Pipe Organ ). Few systems can reproduce a large pipe organ with enough balls to keep up with what happens in real life. And I listen to the fluffy stuff you guys all hate. Harpsichord and strings. But when they sound real, I'm happy. when they don't sound real I fix it!

So when I design speakers, like those for Funk Audio or Volti Audio I like a lot of dynamics, but a very clean sound. So for Funk Audio I use planar tweeters for the upper midrange and high frequency range. Because they just sound right, and they can be made with high efficiency. For the low end I design killer subwoofers, and horn loaded sub woofers that have been quietly made for quite a few years by gents who are after the ultimate low end.

A high efficiency tweeter this is not. But it is a smooth accurate sound, you might say slightly warm sounding tweeter. It doesn't grab your attention right away. It's a sound that you can listen to all day without you wanting to shoot it and crush it into the pavement after a few hours. 

I hates crispy tweeters.


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## mwmkravchenko

cajunner wrote: 

Mark answered:

very tempting to get in on this, but is it a group buy deal, or are you going to charge 115 a pair for the say, 30 pairs that don't sell in the group buy as a listing in the classifieds?


meaning, do I wait and pay the same, or will the price magically rise if not in on the first turn out/deposit list?

The price will stay the same for everyone. But I'm only shipping in the order quantity that is requested.

hard for me to dedicate funds but after seeing the SI BM IV shallow sub group buy/pre-sale, it's almost a lock to get into this venture with an enthusiasm...

Don't give a furry rats behind about what stupidity someone else pulls. This is my living. And I work in this field everyday. I'm here for the long haul. I started this gig in 1989. Half of you were in training pants back then! Yes, my chrome dome has been well earned! 

because you are almost assured if you don't use them, you can get out what you put in later on should that necessity befall you...

I'm well aware of that. It's the reason why this offer is up in the first place. There is a little blurb about a 250 pc minimum run. That is what is being made. What I'm shipping here I keep limited because it costs lots to ship them.

I guess what I'm saying is, will these come with individual test read-outs quality control, and hand matching for response and impedance?

Yes Mam. Each and every one will come with T/S specs. Might be able to do frequenncy response, but that is a pain because the test enclosure does not give us a flat response, it gives us a known repeatable response. I'm trying to decide if yours may come with a little bow, haven't decide if it will be blue or pink....

that would get some people off the fence, if they could get that personal touch that the bigger guys can't do. 

Can't get much more personal than me being there in August and getting er done. Looks like I will be there by the middle of August. Have some 6.5's to punch through, a 6.5 and 5.25 concentric to finish. A long excursion 8 and 6.5, and some killer 15 and 18.

I mean, it looks like you're getting a Chinese build house to churn these out, but you know the old ladies testing the magnetic parts, so...

It's interesting the preconception we are fed over here about manufacturing in China. You can get top quality over there if you are willing to do your homework and willing to pay the price. And people over there have an interesting combination of a willingness to work, and a lower cost of living. But comparatively they get paid quite well in the factory I work with. They keep the same staff from year to year. That is not something that you see in other factories in China.

is this a joint assembly venture, where most of the parts are coming off a boat, and OH! CANADA! is doing the final testing?

Joint assembly takes place in Colorado.

I'm sorry, too muchy coffee this AM.

GROUP BUY, ME LIKEY.


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## teldzc1

I'm already in, so hope you don't mind some more questions.

A lot of us have high powered active systems. If we cross 2k @ 24db will they have good power handling?

These are essentially improved LD25X with a smaller faceplate right?

Thanks!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## mwmkravchenko

teldzc1 said:


> I'm already in, so hope you don't mind some more questions.
> 
> A lot of us have high powered active systems. If we cross 2k @ 24db will they have good power handling?
> 
> These are essentially improved LD25X with a smaller faceplate right?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


Don't be apologetic. These are good questions.


When I stop being so busy I will put up my post about power handling.

Some of the pics are already up on the Photobucket Album. They tell the visual part of the story, the rest I will do up. 

Yes a 4rth order slope at 2 kilohertz will be a pretty safe setup.

Improved tweeter yes.

Smaller faceplate Yes!


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## cajunner

XBL and tweeters are a good recipe for mid-level powered systems, more than high power.

if they have 86 db sensitivity, they probably have 30W RMS power handling.

purely guessing here, but the shorter coil for XBL's extended throw, is not able to put as much copper in the gap as a standard design, and the gap itself may reduce the transfer of heat to the motor's steel parts.


Or, I wouldn't expect to run these on 150W RMS amps without any problems.

and that's not knowing anything about them, haha...




sorry Mark, you said I was maybe pink or blue, I guess you'll get the blue from here on out.


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## strakele

I don't even need tweeters right now and this is pretty tempting. I like working with smaller companies that really listen to what people want and focus on quality over quantity.

I'm still mostly interested in the 7" midbass we were discussing in the other thread.


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## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> XBL and tweeters are a good recipe for mid-level powered systems, more than high power.
> 
> if they have 86 db sensitivity, they probably have 30W RMS power handling.
> 
> purely guessing here, but the shorter coil for XBL's extended throw, is not able to put as much copper in the gap as a standard design, and the gap itself may reduce the transfer of heat to the motor's steel parts.
> 
> 
> Or, I wouldn't expect to run these on 150W RMS amps without any problems.
> 
> and that's not knowing anything about them, haha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Mark, you said I was maybe pink or blue, I guess you'll get the blue from here on out.


Ok how many cups today?

You like guessing.

And you don't know anything about them!

Ha Ha.

If and or When you order yours, I promise to tie a little blue ribbon on the package. Pink is now officially off the list.

Some clarification on your guesstimates.

You only need high powered high frequency drivers in PA oe concert sound. Stuff that is setup way far from the listener.

The coil can take a solid 30 watts, (you guessed by looking at other data sheets right?) and peaks of much higher. If you have clean power and are not clipping, and are using at least a 4rth order crossover at 2 kilohertz or higher you should be able to track a signal in terms of keeping up the high frequencies with the rest of what you are listening to. Right up to and around 125db, in a car above 2000 hertz. So that is near field, 1/8th space environment. As in four real world reflective surfaces. Ceiling, floor, and side walls. Steady state signals will be less, but good up to around 105db for a minute or under.

Happily If your music is balsting at 125 db the top end is down around 20 db at 2 kilohertz versus 100 hertz, and down another 10 db at 5 kilohertz.

With the correct crossover these tweeters will be fine.


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## teldzc1

Thanks for the response Mark

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## mwmkravchenko

So a little update on paid purchases.

Thanks guys. These will make you very happy.

In no particular order.

Tam
Alexey
Justin
Michael
Eric
David

Have completed their purchase.

These guys are the first of many.

Yes little company, big capabilities. And I aim to please!


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## mwmkravchenko

The Seven inch midbass KA6.5XBLNeo is seeing the motor machining now.

It will have an 8 inch cousin.

There is also a little 34mm X-max subwoofer coming in a few flavours. As in 15 and 18.

I'll come back from china with a few boxes of the pre-production runs.

A few happy gents will be able to sample them before everyone else.


----------



## strakele

Cool. Excited to hear more.


----------



## Lorin

In the original graph, both lines show "no faceplate." 
which one is with, and\or without?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Lorin said:


> In the original graph, both lines show "no faceplate."
> which one is with, and\or without?


Good question.

The top graph is two tweeters compared against each other using the same faceplate.

Green line is the KAXBLTWT on the same faceplate. It suffers on the very top as has been pointed out already due to a messed up termination between the faceplate and the dome.

Black line is the LD25X when it was functioning correctly.

The graph is at the full resolution of the LMS system. 1/48th octave. Or in musical terms there is 12 notes in an octave, and every note spacing is divided 4 more times and a frequency played and sampled at those points. Nice and exact representation of what is actually happening. Normally you see 1/3 octave graphs in audio advertising. That means there is a measurement every fourth note and a smoothing applied to connect the dots.


When you have sharp dips they are not usually that noticeable. Sharp peaks above 2000 hertz can be really annoying. 

The custom designed faceplate will not have the same problem.

The second graph down is the dome without without a faceplate. Again in comparison to the LD25X.

You get to see the effects that a faceplate has on the response of the tweeter.
They are exactly the same tweeters just mounted on a flat IEC baffle. Which is a flat vertical panel approximately 5 feet by 6 feet with the driver being tested slightly off center on the baffle. The microphone distance is 1 meter.

One other evil point about measurements.

You will usually see the response given on axis. That means straight on the tweeter dead center.

You never listen to them at that point. \most of the time you are about 30 degrees or so off of center. This position means that the dome tweeter will have limited high frequency extension because a 1 inch dome starts to be smaller than the wavelength it is reproducing as you near 10 000 hertz.

That works out ok because percentage wise there is precious little music up that high in the first place.


----------



## miniSQ

I am in for a pair...how do i pay?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cajunner wrote:



> this would help a lot, I believe the potential is there for a mild gain, even with soft domes.


acoustic waveguides

I helped Dave design this a while ago.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Send me your paypal linked email via P.M.

I send you a Paypal invoice.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

One little plug.

If you guys think it's worth it, please point people on other forums to this thread. The more tweeters I can make the more secondary projects I can pull into the DIY community.

Think high efficiency large format planars. In the works should have first articles in September.

Think AMT's. Already done design work and in the hands of OEM's


----------



## Nismo

Mark,
I'm SOOOO excited about this, but it may be a week or two before we hear about some very good or very bad news. IF things fall in our favor, I'm on it in a heartbeat. Any idea what kind of time line we're looking at here to get in on the preorder?

Thanks!
Eric


----------



## Lorin

Is there a timeline in which you can:
get the first prototype faceplate made
post results on graph?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Nismo said:


> Mark,
> I'm SOOOO excited about this, but it may be a week or two before we hear about some very good or very bad news. IF things fall in our favor, I'm on it in a heartbeat. Any idea what kind of time line we're looking at here to get in on the preorder?
> 
> Thanks!
> Eric


The order for the drivers has been made. Actually on Monday.

But there is a run of 250 pcs.

Some of these are available for this Groupbuy.

Closing will be first week of August, unless something goes nuts on the manufacturing end. Sometimes there are delays in getting the materials. The production run takes two days.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Lorin said:


> Is there a timeline in which you can:
> get the first prototype faceplate made
> post results on graph?


Yes, by next Wednesday actually. 

I will do a prototype in my shop, make measurements and commit to a run on the faceplates.

And yes I will post graphs.


----------



## Velozity

Just stumbled on this thread and I'm excited to see another budding venture on DIYMA!

I would be very interested in the smaller coincident driver and the 8" midbass. Will these be available in August as well?


----------



## miniSQ

Velozity said:


> Just stumbled on this thread and I'm excited to see another budding venture on DIYMA!
> 
> I would be very interested in the smaller coincident driver and the 8" midbass. Will these be available in August as well?


i want a matching 7" for a 2-way


----------



## req

thanks! order filled. im happy i did not move any further on my tweeter build, its going to be a LOT easier to fit these smaller form factor tweeters in my car than the huge ones i was planning on using lol.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Velozity said:


> Just stumbled on this thread and I'm excited to see another budding venture on DIYMA!
> 
> I would be very interested in the smaller coincident driver and the 8" midbass. Will these be available in August as well?


I'll make them available as they are ready for a production run.

This is not a budding venture. I've been in this business since 1989 with my own attempt at a speaker company. Working exclusively as a Design Consultant since 2002.

What it is came from a simple conversation with a few clients and my build house. It's topping up driver OEM runs for various clients. So I'm making available drivers that are normally never available to DIY.


----------



## Velozity

I stand corrected. Glad to see you have been successful for so long. Any details you can share on the drivers I asked about? PM if necessary as I know this is not the topic of the thread.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Velozity said:


> I stand corrected. Glad to see you have been successful for so long. Any details you can share on the drivers I asked about? PM if necessary as I know this is not the topic of the thread.


Successful, as in staying power yes.

As in making a boat load of cash, no.

This business has few areas where the quality conscious make lots of money.

You have to cut quite a few corners to be highly profitable.

And the people who are good at it are almost impossible to unseat.

I prefer to serve the niches that the cookie cutter systems cannot or will not cater to.

I work with a few small OEM's and we make no holds barred products that are cutting edge state of the art products.

And I figured why not share some of what I'm doing?


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> The coil can take a solid 30 watts, (you guessed by looking at other data sheets right?) and peaks of much higher. If you have clean power and are not clipping, and are using at least a 4rth order c.


my understanding of fine filament coils and XBL is there is a working limit to increasing the efficiency, and I'd have shot for a 30 watt RMS goal if it were me trying to develop the working compromise between sensitivity and power handling.

the reality of needing to pad down most tweeters 3 db or more, due to a higher sensitivity is negated by the use of XBL gap structure, which lets you keep the same high gauss neo magnet for heat dissipation purposes, and also gives enough flux density for the spread of underhung.


Normally you would need a rather large ferrite slug to accommodate the XBL in all designs built for the home audio but in car audio, the main killer of tweeters is heat. Being able to shed the heat goes a long way, I have noticed this from Alpine's first few small tweeter designs back in the mid eighties, they sounded great but it was so easy to blow them.

I'm pretty sure if you tried to go above the 86 db sensitivity, by using lighter mass and finer wire on the coil you'd decrease the power handling to a point where long term use would be compromised.



mwmkravchenko said:


> cajunner wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> acoustic waveguides
> 
> I helped Dave design this a while ago.


these are awesome looking, and exactly what I would attempt to produce on my own, using the public resource, the library's MakerBot acquisition.

If I have it right, the need is for pattern control in a physical size between the car audio version of the EOS by JBL in their GTI series, and the normal faceplate of a home audio "horn loaded" monitor.

my thought, is to produce something that fits with a 3" midrange in the A-pillars, in the same way the GTI plate fits the 6.5" pattern of it's midrange.



mwmkravchenko said:


> I'll make them available as they are ready for a production run.
> 
> This is not a budding venture. I've been in this business since 1989 with my own attempt at a speaker company. Working exclusively as a Design Consultant since 2002.
> 
> What it is came from a simple conversation with a few clients and my build house. It's topping up driver OEM runs for various clients. So I'm making available drivers that are normally never available to DIY.


this worries me, let's get the good stuff into the hands of the connoisseur, before the lawyer henchmen put the kibosh on it.

it would appear at your pricing, that you stand to make all the middleman money and that's good, but if you are doing the equivalent of the Chinese buildhouse running an extra day and a half on your production to sell as counterfeits, or grey market...

just say it isn't so!

(but I'd be okay with a pair, I mean I'm not running for public office)


----------



## mwmkravchenko

The ideas you have about how XBL works are really not founded on any experience.

You can push up the efficiency of any motor design by means of a number of methods.

But every one of them has it's own little trail of parameters that change along with it.

We wanted a tweeter with a low Fs. And that I am making available.

As for Dave's wave guide.

If I were you I'd buy his and modify it to fit your pillar, or Dave to make you a custom one. By the time you buy enough filament to crank out your ideas you will have spent close to what his will cost you anyway.

His are much more durable.

3D printing is not as structurally strong as many people lead you to believe.

Last but not least.

Tell me what six months of your time is worth and divide it by 250. Then explain to me what I'm making on the tweeters. A comparable tweeter is not really out there. This is a very finely made driver, in the Morel and ScanSpeak class. Take a look at what they cost. 

Until you walk a few years in someone's shoes you canna know what it's like to do their job.


----------



## sirbOOm

Me thinks I'm going to sign up for a set of these pups very soon.


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> The ideas you have about how XBL works are really not founded on any experience.
> 
> You can push up the efficiency of any motor design by means of a number of methods.
> 
> But every one of them has it's own little trail of parameters that change along with it.
> 
> We wanted a tweeter with a low Fs. And that I am making available.
> 
> As for Dave's wave guide.
> 
> If I were you I'd buy his and modify it to fit your pillar, or Dave to make you a custom one. By the time you buy enough filament to crank out your ideas you will have spent close to what his will cost you anyway.
> 
> His are much more durable.
> 
> 3D printing is not as structurally strong as many people lead you to believe.
> 
> Last but not least.
> 
> Tell me what six months of your time is worth and divide it by 250. Then explain to me what I'm making on the tweeters. A comparable tweeter is not really out there. This is a very finely made driver, in the Morel and ScanSpeak class. Take a look at what they cost.
> 
> Until you walk a few years in someone's shoes you canna know what it's like to do their job.


you're getting defensive, Mark.

that's not what I'm saying, there's no need for defensive.

I'm not judging you like you think.

and if I believe you are taking tweeters that would have been designed on someone else's billed hours, and if it's a very successful design, then making a little run for some enthusiasts and pocketing a little extra on the side, it's not going to matter.

whether that is the truth or not even near, doesn't matter to me.

the point I'm getting at, is this is a limited opportunity and the odds are it may be wise to get your order in, at the price presented.

I understand you'd like to drive business to your friend, who sells nicely made wave guides for commonly available tweeters, but don't shut out the hobbyist, who is just as much a part of the DIYMA tradition who may be able to jump across the gap of a commercial design that comes in 2K retail dress, (the GTI sets) and your friend's 80 bux a pair versions.

but what I want, my target size, is not Dave's sizing.

he's matching for dispersion pattern of a 5.25" at least, and most of them are even bigger.

I'm wanting to make a mini-sized wave guide that would match to a 3" midrange, so you can get pattern control in the A-pillars without being too large to fit.

something that you could adapt to a coax on a large cone, or even make a small dash pod with it, something that fits into a car better than even JBL's EOS ones.


that's where nobody is going, matching the dispersion pattern of a 3" midrange with a 3" wide wave guide.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> and if I believe you are taking tweeters that would have been designed on someone else's billed hours, and if it's a very successful design, then making a little run for some enthusiasts and pocketing a little extra on the side, it's not going to matter.




Unfortunately that is not how it works. I don't know any independent designer that gets paid by the hour.

I get paid for the product run. And the drivers even made in China are not that cheap in small tight QC batches. You always get the quality level you pay for and verify.

And with some vendors I get royalties.

Sometimes I get promised royalties.

And occasionally people pay them for an extended time. As in the time agreed to. There is very little I can do to enforce an agreement. Don't want the lawyers making more money than me.

So no it is not all that rosy. This is not the easiest of professions to make a living in.



The difference between a waveguide and a horn:

A waveguide has a very limited area where there is actual any gain in the response and a limited area where there is pattern dispersion control. 

Comparatively a horn has more gain over a broader area, usually until the frequencies are the wavelength of the horns throat. It also should have a control of the directivity over a much broader portion of the response. 

About Dave.

I did the design work for Dave for free. For only the waveguide that would work with this tweeter. He did the physical design of the molds and the verification measurements. I didn't know Dave before, and I have only spoken to him once since. But he does offer a quality product at a reasonable price.

The size of the wave guide is very important if you want it to have any useful effect within the range of reproduction that will actually make a difference. To small and incorrect shape and it makes little to no difference in the response.

If your serious about a waveguide P.M. me. It is much more complicated than you think it is.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SPL and tweeters.

It gets talked about, how loud can this tweeter go.

Realistically it can do about 105 db for short periods, and about 110 to 112 in transients.

So great!

It's a piece of Garbage!

If your still with me, take a think on this.

Consider the spectral content of music, that is the spectrum of sound across the board from lowest to highest as actually recorder in music. 

A great signal that has been widely accepted and used for decades as a realistic representation of music is the pink noise signal.



What is this good for?

It gives a graphical representation of how much actual power is required per octave to reproduce music.

On the left are the lowest tones, on the right the highest. The line represents the average content of music signals within each octave.

As you go higher in frequency there is considerably less power required to keep up on the high end versus what is happening on the low end.

If you turn up the volume the ratio stays the same.

So for a practical example.

You want your tunes loud, really loud. I mean loud enough that you cannot hold a conversation.

This is usually around 100db midband. Midband is around 500 to 2000 hertz.

Take a look at the high end of the graph. It drops significantly as the frequency goes up. If you have bass information such as kick drum and you want to feel the thump in your chest you figure that it has to loud right?

As an number plucked out of the air let's say it is 120 db at 100 hertz. Kick drum resides between 100 and 120 hertz. Chest cavity resonance is between 113 and 127 hertz. ( yes that is thump in your chest feeling, it depends on the person's body size) 

Over at the tweeter range how far down in the line compared to 100 hertz? At 1000 hertz the signal is down 25 db, and at 2000 hertz ( recommended same crossover frequency) the signal is down 28db.

So to keep up with your tunes the tweeter would have to be playing at at 95 db or 92 db, well within the capabilities of the driver.

below is a sim of the driver under 30 watts input. This is simulation excursion.



Excursion is the vertical axis and in mm on the left side. The tweeter is safe up to 1.6 mm each way.

Here is the tweeter sound pressure level with the horn contribution added in. The bump in the response as shown sums to flat in real measurements. The tweeter has a dip in the response at this point and the faceplate is made in such a way to compensate for this.



And the simmed tweeter faceplate profile:




The red line represents the tweeter dome.

So here be some of the information.

If you have questions don't be shy to ask. Questions are always welcome.


----------



## cajunner

is the simmed tweeter faceplate, the curve you intend on production?

and I understand about relative energy between bass and treble, but people will want a comparison.

like, I don't think your XBL tweeter will be able to absorb and create the same power envelope that a JBL GTI tweeter will.


or, since your tweeters are at Scan/dynaudio level in sound quality, how close are they in output?

this is the kind of thing that people need to know.

Some of us like to hear cymbals splash from down the street, and I wouldn't subject a good tweeter to possible abuse, but where on the scale will these tweeters fall...


you say "harpischord" and I say "snare rim shot" and we may not meet in the middle.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Master cajunner how did I know you would be the first.



> is the simmed tweeter faceplate, the curve you intend on production?
> 
> Read. "The bump sums to flat" because there is a dip in the response of the tweeter located there. Every dome tweeter displays this characteristic a dip in the response. Especially ones that go down low. There are different things employed to smooth this out. You have already seen an almost flat full resolution graph in the beginning of this thread. The tweaked faceplate will fix the irregularities in the response of the tweeter.
> 
> and I understand about relative energy between bass and treble, but people will want a comparison.
> 
> like, I don't think your XBL tweeter will be able to absorb and create the same power envelope that a JBL GTI tweeter will.
> 
> I prefer to believe that people have a brain to think for themselves. If a tweeter has a similar diameter the only possible output is the same output. The variable being the efficiency of the motor. Power ratings on tweeters can be very misleading. How many watts is the most commonly asked question in the years I have been in this business. Speakers don't have watts. Stickers do, amplifiers do. Speakers have efficiency, and linear travel. They pushed around by watts.
> 
> or, since your tweeters are at Scan/dynaudio level in sound quality, how close are they in output?
> 
> Similar diameter, similar efficiency similar output. If the efficiency is 90 db, the tweeter will have a three db advantage, and 3 db just so happens to be the difference most people begin to notice.
> 
> 
> this is the kind of thing that people need to know.
> 
> Some of us like to hear cymbals splash from down the street, and I wouldn't subject a good tweeter to possible abuse, but where on the scale will these tweeters fall...
> 
> 
> you say "harpischord" and I say "snare rim shot" and we may not meet in the middle.
> 
> Not quite what you believe it to be.
> 
> A harpsichord has loads of high frequency content.
> 
> I prefer to blast French baroque pipe organ. It has both the spl and the cross spectrum content to give even the nastiest heavy metal a run for it's money! And if you have heard a truly great pipe organ reeds you will never forget it. Think tuned jack hammers at spls that few cars can match at frequencies that they hardly ever are designed to reproduce.
> 
> I have designed subwoofers just to be able to reproduce recordings at proper concert levels. I'm a little more of a bass fiend than most people.
> 
> Not quite as poofy as you may think!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Back To business.

The completed transfers are as follows, again in no particular order:

Tim
Andrew
Shiv
Tam
Alexey
Michael
David
Eric
Justin

These dudes will be in tweeter heaven shortly


----------



## edouble101

hmmmmmm


Does Scan/Dyn/JBL offer a group buy on tweeters? The JBL waveguide is surely unique although I have never seen it used to optimise imaging/staging. Other than home audio use is there any other "waveguide" for tweeters? I am not referring to hlcds. The faceplate "issue" is almost purely cosmetic. I would think that there is a diffraction issues near the surround but dealing with reflections should be more problematic with car audio use. So.... installation of this driver is paramount. (which should be of any car audio driver) 



Spend $+300 there or $125 here. My buck goes here.


----------



## edouble101

ditto


----------



## mwmkravchenko

edouble101 said:


> hmmmmmm
> 
> 
> Does Scan/Dyn/JBL offer a group buy on tweeters? The JBL waveguide is surely unique although I have never seen it used to optimise imaging/staging. Other than home audio use is there any other "waveguide" for tweeters? I am not referring to hlcds. The faceplate "issue" is almost purely cosmetic. I would think that there is a diffraction issues near the surround but dealing with reflections should be more problematic with car audio use. So.... installation of this driver is paramount. (which should be of any car audio driver)
> 
> 
> 
> Spend $+300 there or $125 here. My buck goes here.




Me to!

This is an investment of many months of my time. And quite a bit of money. 

I'm sticking my neck out into this side of the business only because I believe I have a superior product. And I'm offering it at a very competitive price. 

Simply put, if this works out for all of us, there will be more offerings.


----------



## teldzc1

Mark i'm pretty excited by these. My current tweeters are in the stock dash location firing directly into the windshield. I actually like the way it sounds. Huge upfront soundtage although lacking real imaging. Tonality is good, although I'm probably giving up some response at the top end.

Will this be acceptable or should I pursue a sail panel or a-pillar mount?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Why not just wire them in and shift them to a few positions?

The experiment will really tell you the best way to mount them in your car.


----------



## teldzc1

Yeah I probably will. Just lazy and wanted to know if you had any input on what might work best. Can't wait!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I'm really not a well experienced car installer. So for me to give you advice would be more of a guess than anything else. I do what I suggested to you. I experiment with locations, and I have a few books on car audio installation ideas. 

But that's about the limits of my practical experience. 

Sorry, but I would rather be honest than try to bluff my way through.


----------



## teldzc1

No worries. I guess a more general question is: would you use these on axis or off axis?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Now that is a killer question.

I have been running sims on an optimal faceplate shape, and I'll publish the low down on it tomorrow morning.

Sneak peak.

There actually is an optimized window that works best.


----------



## cksigmapi

I'd like to get in on this. I'll send a deposit soon!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Just need your Paypal linked email address via P.M.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> No worries. I guess a more general question is: would you use these on axis or off axis?


Been a little under the weather lately. Burning the candle at both ends catches up to you after a while!

OK

On or off axis.

Let's take a good look at this.

Most car placements are usually on the door behind the mirror mount, close by on the door pillar or placed on the dash to bounce off of the windshield.

They are all fairly close to the same angle away from your ears.

Basically it is because you are in the near filed, less than a meter way, and because the actual difference angle from straight on to your ears is within about 15 degrees.

Actually the greatest difference is in the pillar/door mounting position. And it is pretty good in the first place.

So looking at the tweeter, and it's companion faceplate you will have some information to actually understand what is going on. 

I'll post the sims showing spl versus angle shortly.


----------



## neal00

Do you have a THD graph?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

As requested.



The finest kind of distortion graph. The kind where you have to look hard to find the distortion products!

A few notes on what you are looking at.

Each colored line represents a different multiple of the original test frequency. These multiples are called harmonics. At two times the test frequency is a second harmonic, a three times, a third harmonic and so on. (Remember Farrah Fawcett in the shampoo commercials?) The harmonics that we find most irritating are the odd ones, 3rd, 5th, 7th. The most easy to get along with one is the 2nd harmonic.

Resolution is 1/12th octave. What that means is that every little bump and dip shows up at this decently high resolution.

Four times higher than what you see in normal advertising.

If I pushed it through the 1/3 octave cheese grater all you would see is a smooth line.


Looking carefully at the numbers on the left hand side you will see the the driver test frequency is at approximately 90 decibels. The signal is fed at one watt.

The distortion parts are down 34 to 40 db lower.

There is a good old rule of thumb that anything below 24 db down is good. 34 db down is Pretty Darn Good!

Actually hard to find at any price.


----------



## neal00

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## edouble101

I am really anxious to see the faceplate. I am hoping for no visible holes and minimal outside diameter. Similar to this.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> I am really anxious to see the faceplate. I am hoping for no visible holes and minimal outside diameter. Similar to this.


I'm with you on the no holes idea.

Friction fit in a 50mm hole.

I have found a place that will stamp the expanded metal dome almost exactly like this:



Yes this is a ScanSpeak tweeter.

But I like the metal dome and it was the picture we discussed.

Pay no attention to the holes!

There will be no holes.

A wire pigtail is easier in my books than push on connectors.

I think that is what will be done unless there is a big cry to have the push on connectors.

When mounting a tweeter in a sail panel or a pillar push on's seem like a stupid idea.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I'm with you on the no holes idea.
> 
> Friction fit in a 50mm hole.
> 
> I have found a place that will stamp the expanded metal dome almost exactly like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes this is a ScanSpeak tweeter.
> 
> But I like the metal dome and it was the picture we discussed.
> 
> Pay no attention to the holes!
> 
> There will be no holes.
> 
> a wire pigtail is easier in my books than push on connectors.
> 
> I think that is what will be done unless there is a big cry to have the push on connectors.
> 
> When mounting a tweeter in a sail panel or a pillar push on's seem like a stupid idea.


agreed on the wire pigtail being preferred...its always uncomfortable to be soldering wire onto tweeter posts.

But Image Dynamics used to have a wire pigtail that was like 48ga wire...i would prefer something a little heavier


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> agreed on the wire pigtail being preferred...its always uncomfortable to be soldering wire onto tweeter posts.
> 
> But Image Dynamics used to have a wire pigtail that was like 48ga wire...i would prefer something a little heavier


How about 18 gauge or there abouts?

Sixteen is overkill for the power going into a tweeter in real use.

Plus 'dah ticker dah wyre dah mor dah poblems.'

Say that fast three times!


----------



## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> I'm with you on the no holes idea.
> 
> Friction fit in a 50mm hole.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> How about 18 gauge or there abouts?
> 
> Sixteen is overkill for the power going into a tweeter in real use.
> 
> Plus 'dah ticker dah wyre dah mor dah poblems.'
> 
> Say that fast three times!


18-20 would be fine


----------



## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> How about 18 gauge or there abouts?
> 
> Sixteen is overkill for the power going into a tweeter in real use.
> 
> Plus 'dah ticker dah wyre dah mor dah poblems.'
> 
> Say that fast three times!


I think 14-16 gauge would be great


----------



## cajunner

happy with short lengths of 18 gauge, using mil-spec tinned wire for easy soldering.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> happy with short lengths of 18 gauge, using mil-spec tinned wire for easy soldering.


That's nice.

Pre-tinned wire is more expensive and stiffer than stranded.


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> That's nice.
> 
> Pre-tinned wire is more expensive and stiffer than stranded.


well worth the extra cost for a small spool on a limited run of drivers. And pre-tinned stranded, isn't that what we're talking about? not solid, no...

and the added body helps, imho, in mounting and routing in A-pillar channels or hidden behind factory door panels, in keeping shape and providing a slightly stiffer mechanism for those "friction fit" swivel installs where the wire density determines the amount of wiggle in the mount.

not always optimal but super flexible 22 gauge wire like most big names use on their tweeters, leaves a little room in the box.

maybe even use the wire itself as a mild heatsink, and 18 gauge will absorb much better than 22 gauge will.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

But I do like your idea.

I will look into it.

Right now the only hangup for timing I'm up against is the mount for the tweeter.

The rest is set up.

Small runs of parts are a pain to get done in China.

And they are a bigger pain to get done over here!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok recapp.

Tweeter build request is done as of a week ago.

Waiting for a build run time frame.

Have connected with a place that will do the metal grill part of the mount.

Waiting on a good quality mounting cup.

Groupbuy is open for another 21 days.

So if you are interested get a move on.

I'm trying to finalize all the numbers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Couple of sad videos on directivity and beamwidth of a dome tweeter:





Heck if I know how to rotate the second one the right way. But you still get the general idea.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Not even one comment?

Like what a sad, sad attempt at a video......

Gotta find a decent opensource video capture program.


----------



## neal00

Couldn't even watch it


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Oh that's bad!

I'll see what I can do.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Well Neal has agreed to direct my next film seeing as I can't do it right! 

Not!

Ok So I have been asked this question quite a few times.

Recommended crossover point.

2000 hertz 24 db/octave or 4rth order is a safe place to do this.


You can go a little lower with a higher crossover slope.

1500 hertz 6th order or better. If you don't know don't try it.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

The group is growing.

Two weeks left basically.

Again in no particular order:

Christopher
Ernest 
Neal
Scott
Andrew
Tim
Shiv
Tam
Alexey
Michael
Eric
Rajeev
Justin
David
Henry


----------



## H3nry

Mark, 
You forgot to include my name?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Fixed.

Getting to be a big list!


----------



## req

i didnt even know those were supposed to be video links until somone mentioned it.

i couldnt watch them at work, so i have no idea.

either way, im looking forward to these more and more. my system (as far as speaker installation) will be complete once these get to me and i fabricate them in the sail panels. right now, the LD25X is doing a good job. if these tweeters sound anything like the LD25X then ill be a happy camper. plus, they will 'fit' in the car MUCH better.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> either way, im looking forward to these more and more. my system (as far as speaker installation) will be complete once these get to me and i fabricate them in the sail panels. right now, the LD25X is doing a good job. if these tweeters sound anything like the LD25X then ill be a happy camper. plus, they will 'fit' in the car MUCH better.


They sound as good as the best LD25X. And they all sound the same. Guaranteed consistency.

I'll be making a file for each driver and recording the T/S parameters. So these puppies will all be matched plus or minus 1.5 db.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> i didnt even know those were supposed to be video links until somone mentioned it.
> 
> i couldnt watch them at work, so i have no idea.


Many places of work have a video filter.

I just clicked on them in the forum, followed the photobucket link and watched them in photobucket. The quality sucks, but the general instruction is there.

I'm still looking for a good and easy to use video capture program. Then there will be a much clearer version produced.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Has anyone been able to see the videos?


----------



## strakele

They work fine for me. Neat simulations.


----------



## neal00

mwmkravchenko said:


> Well Neal has agreed to direct my next film seeing as I can't do it right!
> 
> Not!
> 
> Ok So I have been asked this question quite a few times.
> 
> Recommended crossover point.
> 
> 2000 hertz 24 db/octave or 4rth order is a safe place to do this.
> 
> 
> You can go a little lower with a higher crossover slope.
> 
> 1500 hertz 6th order or better. If you don't know don't try it.



I just hope that you can afford my Martin Scorsese-ish rates! :laugh:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Would that be higher than minimum wage?


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> Has anyone been able to see the videos?


i watched the videos, but i wont pretend to understand them...


----------



## neal00

Just a wee bit higher!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Just a wee bit higher!


I can give you a raise.

2 foot step ladder.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> i watched the videos, but i wont pretend to understand them...


The color video red and green one shows how a sound wave is launched off of the faceplate. The shape you see shows how the sound flows out of the faceplate at different frequencies. As you go up higher the actual length of the sound shortens. This creates a situation where the sound waves actually can cancel themselves out. It does not cancel one hundred percent , but about 50%. This effect increases as you go higher in frequency. Most pronounced above 10 000 hertz, just happens to be the same wavelength of sound as the dome is wide! 

The other video gives a representation of how a tweeter sound waves change with an increase in frequency. The higher you go the more narrow the coverage. The sweet thing in a car is that you are almost always within the zone that gets covered.


----------



## neal00

mwmkravchenko said:


> I can give you a raise.
> 
> 2 foot step ladder.


Your generosity knows no bounds


----------



## mwmkravchenko

At least you have as whacky a sense of humor as I do!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So anyone else have a look at the cheesey videos?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Well working for a month on the left coast. I design for Funk Audio and we are having a month long brain storm.

Waiting for a solid date on the tweeter build.

I will be flying out to China on the 15th of August and back on the 18th of September. So latest I'll have stuff in hand is on the flight back. Will keep you guys posted. And I promise lots of pictures. That is if I am there when there are doing the production run.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Just a heads up at little less then two weeks before the groupbuy has to close.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

The cup assembly will be finalized when I get to China, and I will provide pics. We are going with a pig tail of wire as discussed. Will try to get pretinned. But not promising.

Stating to get excited. Launching another little baby into the world!

Yes even speaker designers get all mushy over new stuff. Lots of work involved with these little projects.


----------



## teldzc1

Great news Mark. Really excited! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## mwmkravchenko

What happened to the guys that have a pair of tweeters?

Comments please!


----------



## jbowers

The posts about the design of the face plate affecting the sound makes me curious, how would these sound behind factory tweeter grills? Would we be talking about a significant degradation of sound, or something measurable but not necessarily audible?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

That depends mostly on the location in relation to your listening position.

The farther away from straight on you get the less pronounced the dip in the response will be.

Early on in the thread. I posted the tweeters response without a faceplate.


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> That depends mostly on the location in relation to your listening position.
> 
> The farther away from straight on you get the less pronounced the dip in the response will be.
> 
> Early on in the thread. I posted the tweeters response without a faceplate.



without knowing the kind of OEM faceplate, the mesh/acoustic perforation, and the distance between the dome to the surrounding diffractive surfaces, it would be hard to predict.

but if the tweeter is good, it'll be good wherever it goes.

so you could expect to get great response from any installation where a passable tweeter gives you passable response.


----------



## jbowers

Damn it, I was hoping to not have anything else to want to buy, but these will be much easier to integrate in the new car. Looks like I'm getting added to the list.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Well the list is growing. Sixteen people so far. Looking good!

Any other questions? There is quite a bit of information in this thread, so many of the questions are already answered. But sometimes people get a thinking and come up with new ones.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> Well the list is growing. Sixteen people so far. Looking good!
> 
> Any other questions? There is quite a bit of information in this thread, so many of the questions are already answered. But sometimes people get a thinking and come up with new ones.


Do you have a cut out diameter yet?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Do you have a cut out diameter yet?


Shooting for 50mm. An inch is 24.5mm so 49mm equals 2 inches. 50mm in a two inch hole should be tight like a tiger.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> Shooting for 50mm. An inch is 24.5mm so 49mm equals 2 inches. 50mm in a two inch hole should be tight like a tiger.


sweet!!


----------



## cajunner

I saw Kef is using the side venting on their T-series tweeters they are using in the super shallow home theater speakers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> I saw Kef is using the side venting on their T-series tweeters they are using in the super shallow home theater speakers.


It's a way to get a pretty clean response if it is used with some intelligence.

I think the people at KEF have the intelligence!

We will see if I do.....


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> It's a way to get a pretty clean response if it is used with some intelligence.
> 
> I think the people at KEF have the intelligence!
> 
> We will see if I do.....


it's going to be hard to top Kef's super shallow 4.5" midranges, with their cone made up of reinforced ribs.

but you should be able to compete with their tweeter, I'd like to see what's under that plastic frame...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> I'd like to see what's under that plastic frame...


Oh don't you just wish!

Buy some and find out.


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> Oh don't you just wish!
> 
> Buy some and find out.


They'd be perfect with my Pioneer TS-C520PRS woofers, same appx. sensitivity for an easy passive network...


----------



## strakele

mwmkravchenko said:


> Shooting for 50mm. An inch is 24.5mm so 49mm equals 2 inches. 50mm in a two inch hole should be tight like a tiger.


Not to be nitpicky, but since you're talking about a 1mm clearance for a precise friction fit, I must point out that 1 inch is 25.4mm, so 2 inches is 50.8mm


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> Well the list is growing. Sixteen people so far. Looking good!
> 
> Any other questions? There is quite a bit of information in this thread, so many of the questions are already answered. But sometimes people get a thinking and come up with new ones.


Can you suggest a 6.5" mid to go with this tweeter in an active front stage set up? I am currently running a seas lotus mid that i like alot, but i am going to pull them and sell my entire Seas Lotus comp set.

i saw the video of your 6.5", but i do not believe that is available yet?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Not to be nitpicky, but since you're talking about a 1mm clearance for a precise friction fit, I must point out that 1 inch is 25.4mm, so 2 inches is 50.8mm


Bingo you win a cookie!

To early, and it shewd!

Thanks for the correction.

But the interference fit will still work as there are nice little ribs on the O.D.
(Outside Diameter)


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Can you suggest a 6.5" mid to go with this tweeter in an active front stage set up? I am currently running a seas lotus mid that i like alot, but i am going to pull them and sell my entire Seas Lotus comp set.
> 
> i saw the video of your 6.5", but i do not believe that is available yet?


The 6.5 ferrite is alive and kicking.

The 6.5 NEO is in the process of having the metal worked, and I will be inChina in three weeks tweaking them out and assembling them.

If anyone wants some of those I have the frequency response and specs of what will be most of the driver ( Ferrite version ) The Neo motor offers greater efficiency and 1.5mm more throw. Almost 15 one way. I can't do anymore in this basket.

So those interested can P.M. me and I may setup a group buy if there is enough interest.

They won't be cheap. But they are stinking good.

Improvements on the Neo is the motor is 50mm, I pushed the efficiency to almost 88db/watt. They are 8 ohm, and that is not as much of a problem as many think when you consider the way modern amplifiers work. They will stay as 8 ohm because these are dual use. A version of this driver will be used in home applications. 8 ohms is perfect for an MTM. Or perfect for Passenger side, driver side configuration.

The only problem for some cars is that because this is a long throw driver, it is not really that shallow.

The more people that ping me the more quickly I will setup a group buy for the woofers. But I won't address this on this thread any more. So keep it in the P.M. please.


----------



## strakele

mwmkravchenko said:


> Bingo you win a cookie!
> 
> To early, and it shewd!
> 
> Thanks for the correction.
> 
> But the interference fit will still work as there are nice little ribs on the O.D.
> (Outside Diameter)


Maybe a speaker instead of a cookie 

(PM sent regarding the midbass)


----------



## LaserSVT

I am sorry if I missed it earlier but what kind of power handling capabilities are you expecting from these? What is their efficiency? When are you looking at shipping, just apx?
I may be down for a pair or two.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

LaserSVT said:


> I am sorry if I missed it earlier but what kind of power handling capabilities are you expecting from these? What is their efficiency? When are you looking at shipping, just apx?
> I may be down for a pair or two.


A very conservative 40 watts is the power handling. Many tweeters with the same coil specs are advertising 150 watts. But that is a load of horse manure.

A coil this size, with the chosen wire gauge will survive a pretty constant 40 watts. And no your ears won't.

Shipping is latest when I get back from China. I get back on the 16th of September so a day or so for jetlag and I ship em out. If they are done early enough I may ship them out from Hong Kong. I will keep everyone posted.


----------



## LaserSVT

And sensitivity?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

87 to 88 db/watt. 

We shot for a low Fs for this baby. Low Fs means heavier moving mass. Canna have everything Captin!


----------



## rton20s




----------



## mwmkravchenko

Nice!


----------



## LaserSVT

mwmkravchenko said:


> 87 to 88 db/watt.
> 
> We shot for a low Fs for this baby. Low Fs means heavier moving mass. Canna have everything Captin!


Familiar with that. Was just curious as that would dictate if I buy two or one. My current tweeters have an Fs of 900 but a sensitivity of 91 or 92db.

If your FS is around 500hz then why such a steep crossover point at 2500hz?

Also is the Fs = 505.2810 Hz or is it 792.2568 Hz?

Please pardon my limited knowledge here.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> If your FS is around 500hz then why such a steep crossover point at 2500hz?


That is the open air no cup no faceplate Fs. All these things change when there is a different acoustical loading. A fancy term for how much air pressure difference there is between a dome in the wide open and a dome with a little front pressure and back pressure added into the mix.

The Fs is actually a little under 800 hertz. To be safe using lower order crossovers you set the point at 20 octave above Fs. An octave is a doubling of frequency so 800 to 1600 is an octave. 1600 to 3200 is the second octave. That would be a dead safe place to put a crossover with a second order slope.

That would also be a really stupid place to put a tweeter crossover. Your wasting lots of the the good attributes of a tweeter.

Most guys in cars are looking for how loud will it play. If you are into serious SPL then I suggested a safe crossover point. There is also a simple line of if you know what you are doing you can go lower.

You can use a lower crossover point. But choose it wisely. Here is a little graph that shows maximum output for the size of dome at a pretty healthy excursion for a tweeter. Power input is 50 watts.



When you choose a crossover point you need to consider the cutoff slope on both sides. Can the driver survive the stress?

If you have higher order filters and the know how in setting them up you can cross over as low as 1200 hertz.

But the following paragraph has the key parts. You must understand how to set them up.

Or you can send me a ping and I'll walk you through it.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> from what I can tell, you're not going to be in the same output range as some of the more expensive drivers from Focal or Dynaudio, or Seas/Scan, etc.


Not true in the slightest degree.

Show me maximum excursion plots for those tweeters. 

There is very little if any difference between the best and what has been offered.

The difference is the linear motor strength available in the dual gap motor.

It has a more constant power capability and therefore a lower distortion level capability.

A little difference in efficiency does not make that much difference over all. You have to link surface area and displacement to get a SPL calculation. This tweeter has a very healthy displacement capability compared to almost everything out there in the market.




> The thing about XBL is that once you reach the limits, you are basically just going to thermal the tweeter before you realize your tweeter isn't playing louder when you turn up the volume higher, unless you already know that going in, and make sure the tweeter limits are known, or just by being careful and not going nuts on the volume.


This group of sentences can be very misleading.

You will smoke any driver once you reach it's suspension limits and keep trying for more.

This is much more linked to how low of a crossover point you choose for any tweeter including mine.



> The chance for XBL tweeters to be overdriven seems to me, to be greater than most other designs due to the linearity right out over the edge where you just smoke them on a high-power transient, on top of their max extension.


Not really the case. The same motor strength is available over a wider excursion area in a dual gap motor. And when you reach the limits there is a built-in braking system that actually helps. Call it a passive limiter. The motor strength drops like a rock in a properly designed XBL motor so there is much less motor force available out of the linear excursion region.



> Maybe the best way to determine how to keep them alive, would be to test them with an SPL meter, using transient test tones, (not long duration, haha) and when they reach say, 106 db, make a mental note on your deck's volume knob setting, not to go above it when playing highly compressed, near 0 db recorded media


Good advice. I think I already covered this earlier in the thread. If it needs more attention please let me know what parts are clear as mud, and try to explain them a little better.


----------



## LaserSVT

Thank you gents. I was thinking of ordering a set for a customer and a set to review and just didn't want to risk over driving his during testing. At $125 the price is low enough to get a couple pairs.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> What exactly, is it in your tweeter, that prevents thermal overload while allowing for XBL architecture to deliver it's basic qualities?
> 
> Is there some asbestos in the coil former, is the Kapton infused with strands of teflon, and can resist higher temperatures without deforming?


Exactly. Better thermal design. Shorter coil height. 

Think this through. You turn the power on an electric stove and the element or coil warms up. Same thing happens in a tweeter. Just that the power source is not constant. There is much smaller signal power going to a tweeter, and more time that it is just coasting along. Remember a smaller element heats up faster. It also cools off faster.

Give it enough area to transfer the heat away from the oil via infrared radiation. That is the nice warm glow you feel off of a fire. And you get a tweeter that can perform a neat little trick. It can keep up with a different motor design and still beat a conventional motor design in terms of heat transfer.

This tweeter is actually very similar to the multiple magnet designs that you may have seen. But the engineering side of it. The true getting the most from the least is where this tweeter really shines. We are getting awesome linearity and performance from a design that is economical to make.





> a standard tweeter motor has more copper in the coil, it will absorb transient power better based on it's ability to shake off high power inputs of short duration.


If it is absorbing power it is heating up. Voice coils do not absorb power. They move. When they are stressed to the point that they cannot move they start to heat up. Once you let out the smoke they stop working.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> So if you feel these tweeters can dissipate power before the coils open, as well as those top tier designs for much more money, that is going to be a remarkable thing






> If you are saying, "you're getting a bargain, these tweeters sound great, and have remarkable distortion reduction from the XBL motors, but they are not designed for 300 watt amplifiers" that would be what I'd want to know.


I'd say yes to everything except the 300 watt tweeters.

Bluntly speaking there is not a tweeter in this size range that could pull that off no matter what they put up as marketing.

The wire size required hard limits you to about 100 watts for about 30 seconds. Anymore and she melts. That is a simple physical constant that is unchangeable.

I have stated again and again that the wattage rating I've assigning to these tweeters are very conservative.

I prefer to be honest and up front with my clients. It makes for long term relationships. Screw people over and they remember it. And basically your done in this business.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> when you say economical, I think of Dan Wiggins saying how easily implemented XBL is to do, and most of the stuff he says about woofers, I just transpose onto the tweeters.


That's an interesting statement. When you consider how the vast majority of loudspeaker motors are made you find that they are forged. An XBL motor has to be machined at the very least in the gap where the voice coil rests.

A huge percentage of drivers have a swaged pole piece. As in the back plate is a washer and the pole piece is a cylinder that fits into the hole in the washer. A little punching on the back end of the pole piece and it stays in the washer. But that kind of fit requires pretty sloppy tolerances.

What I work on is all totally machined. One piece pole/backplates and two part top plates. I use inductance shorting rings in almost every design I work on. Makes for quality you can hear.

But all of this costs way more money that a forged and plated motor assembly.

So although it is relatively easy to incorporate a dual gap motor into a design. Making it costs more. Usually 2X more.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> I'm just not getting where you are going with this, so please educate me here....just how loud would a balanced system be that powered the tweeter with 300 watts? Do you think that would be something that would be enjoyable to listen to? And how many watts would the subwoofer need to keep up to this 300 watt tweeter?
> 
> I can make my ears bleed with only 20 watts to my tweeters, 15x that much power seems stupid loud to me.



:thumbsup:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

etroze said:


> It feels like he is just trying to justify what Mark is saying that they will run up there with the big boys. To me its not so much of an annoyance as looking at it from different view points. Mark has been a hellva guy to talk to and to me hasn't shown that he's annoyed with the back and forth. So I say let the opinions roll as it is educational to us that have never dove into speaker construction.


And that is why I am entertaining Mr. cajunners comments and questions.

Provides an opportunity to present some different information.

Otherwise we find him and rub Perperation H all over him and he might disappear!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> This is because the smaller dual gap structure gets, the harder it is to maintain tolerances.
> 
> For a few tweeters, and hands-on oversight during a production run, maybe this will not be an issue, but the last batch of XBL was shown to have large scale issues with these tolerances, and a huge issue with faceplate interface not being addressed.


The machining tolerances are fairly simple. The factory I work with Runs HAAS CNC lathes. Yes American made equipment.

They are well within tolerance. The failure point is not centering the voice coil in the magnetic gap, or not putting in enough or even any ferro fluid.

The next failure point is in centering the motor on the voice coil.

Follow this with not centering the faceplate with the dome.

Keeping a close eye on this is what real Quality Control is all about.

I take pride in my work. And I seriously want to provide a good product and a good service for your payment.

The problems associated with other XBL products can usually be traced to lax control of these factors.



> the point is to temper the advertising claims with facts.


I appreciate that. And as far as I have been able to I have kept to the facts.



> Now we have basically a new tweeter, using side-vents and controlled cavity volume with a new faceplate "selected" from a panel of possible designs, none of which are large-format because this tweeter is being marketed to the auto sound crowd.
> 
> A lot of people have interest in this, and I would like to see some more realistic expectations being put forward, so I homed in on the power input dissipation that XBL anything, is known to have.
> 
> If anyone thinks my questions are antagonistic, or challenging, then they aren't aware of the bigger picture.
> 
> I believe that a certain amount of trust is being placed in Mr. Kravchenko for this pre-sale and more information about his offerings, is just better for everyone.


Yes we do have a new tweeter. One being very carefully constructed, and thoroughly tested.

XBL does not have any better power dissipation than any other conventional motor design. What it does have is the opportunity if designed properly to get a longer linear displacement for a shorter coil height. That means two things.

Much lower inductance. So the driver designs typically have a wider playing bandwidth.

And as the coil is physically smaller you have a mass of copper that can cool more quickly simply because there is less there to heat up and stay warm. Basically a lower thermal mass.

As for trust. I take this very seriously. Honesty makes you or breaks you when you are a consultant. This is my first attempt to make drivers available to people in general. And I'm not going to screw it up!

Last but definitely not least.

Mr. cajunner.

Keep the questions coming. But try not to be so dogmatic about opinions. Your a thinker and I respect that. Don't stop asking.

Please.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> well, the power dissipation of a shorter coil, may be able to cool faster but it doesn't provide the surface area to conduct heat over a larger surface area.
> 
> The larger surface area in near-contact with metal on a relatively simple overhung design, means that you won't deform the former as easily, and you won't burn the varnish on the wire, or the glues that hold the coil together and on the former, that are basically baked on to provide a mechanically sound bond and structure to the coil.
> 
> The use of a shorter coil, on a motor design with a smaller area of transfer due to the gap, means your basic power capability is reduced.
> 
> It's not as simple as wire gauge size, and if you don't address that, people who have gotten used to tweeters that absorb high power inputs, will probably blow the XBL tweeters because of a lack of understanding about the limitations of XBL in ultimate power usage.


I think you said at one point you were an engineer.

Almost everything you have said is misapplied or incorrect.

And frankly I 'm wondering what the heck you are chasing here.

Nothing in the sentences above has anything to do with a real tweeter design.

It looks as if you have the ability to link together technical sounding words without any idea of what they actually mean or pertain to.

Ohms law is fairly simple.

Ohm's Law Calculator

I simmed at 50 watts and found everything to be safe enough. Fifty watts into 8 ohms is 20 volts. Punch in the numbers and do some fooling around.


Wire gauges and their current carrying capability is also fairly easy to figure out how much current a given wire can conduct without heating up.

You can reverse calculate wire gauge and coil size from a number of different angles.

The way a loudspeaker motor works is quite simple.

You have a permanent magnetic field that should be focused in a limited area. The gap where the voice coil is at rest. The force available from this motor is only repulsive or attractive depending on the polarity of the voltage being fed to the coil. Like polarity with the motor will create a push towards the listener. Opposite polarity will pull the diaphragm away from the listener.

The amplifier produces the movement by generating a voltage through the voice coil.

The voicecoil has an impedance that determines the baseline resistance in an alternating current signal.

The maximum amount of voltage applied is hinged to the coil impedance and the wire gauge in the coil.

Motor force or driver efficiency is a function of the strength of the magnetic field "B" x "L" the length of wire wound in the voicecoil within focused magnetic gap.

That's the BL number you sometimes see in the specs.

Any tweeter I have ever worked with or read the specs on uses a very similar wire gauge. A little larger than a hair. More like a moustache hair. About 0.010” or ten mils, ten thous. Not exactly a large wire to carry a lot of watts.

So lets for kicks and giggles nail the coffin shut on your fabled 300 watts fantasy tweeter. It cannot happen. Period.

I think most people are smart enough to ask how when a thin tiny little voice coil is claimed to be able to handle 300 watts.

I have news for you. A 2 inch voice coil actually has a hard time handling 200 watts. A three inch can. And I'm coming from a pro-sound continuous rating background. Not the pie in the sky marketing department watts game.

Educate yourself a bit. Take apart a tweeter and measure the wire gauge. Then look it up on a wire gauge table and calculate the length from the resistance measurement.

You can do this even in a functioning tweeter if you are clever.

Then reverse calculate ohm's law and see what the maximum current through that little wire will be to get your 300 watts.

It will vaporize the wire believe me.

Why I give a 40 watt conservative rating on the tweeter. Simple fact is it can survive 40 watts. In a car 40 watts will crack 118 db. Excruciating at high frequencies. You won't be hear any tweeter for long at those power levels. You will be deaf.



Now last but not least.

Crossover points. Covered many times. If you are not a crossover savy dude the simple recommendation is 2400 hertz.

If you know what you are doing and can develop a steep slope of 4rth order or better then you can drop down to 1400 hertz.


----------



## cajunner

this is the scale, the benchmarks that have been improved upon:

Report on the New CSS LD25X Tweeter


now, I don't know about the rest of you, but if these new examples are better in every way that has been presented, these tweeters should go for 400 a pair, if not more to be in the right class, and 110 or 120 a pair is a massive steal, nobody should overlook the possibilities here.

Let's make that clear, too.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Wow! I go to sleep for a little while and all this.

Thanks for the support.

Even from cajunner.

Mr. cajunner you remind me so much of my exwife wow. Scarey.

Ok. Amidst all kinds of fluff there was a shot at where or not these drivers or any others will be available. Another shot at whether I have the OK from Dan Wiggins to produce these XBL patterned drivers.

The answer is....

Yes I have Wiggins approval on anything I design as long as I use the right build house.

and

Yes these are going to be made long term.


Even the build house I am using is XBL licensed. And that is also part of the XBL licensing agreement. You must use an authorized build house.

This also allows the subsequent drivers to be designed and built with authorization.


----------



## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> Wow! I go to sleep for a little while and all this.
> 
> Thanks for the support.
> 
> Even from cajunner.
> 
> Mr. cajunner you remind me so much of my exwife wow. Scarey.
> 
> Ok. Amidst all kinds of fluff there was a shot at where or not these drivers or any others will be available. Another shot at whether I have the OK from Dan Wiggins to produce these XBL patterned drivers.
> 
> The answer is....
> 
> Yes I have Wiggins approval on anything I design as long as I use the right build house.
> 
> and
> 
> Yes these are going to be made long term.
> 
> 
> Even the build house I am using is XBL licensed. And that is also part of the XBL licensing agreement. You must use an authorized build house.
> 
> This also allows the subsequent drivers to be designed and built with authorization.



I am excited to get these tweeters in my hands and I am also excited to hear about what you are coming out with next. Good to hear that your production plans are operating as they should, not that I doubted.

Any new updates with pictures?


----------



## miniSQ

cajunner said:


> oh, and "Kravchenko Acoustics XBL Tweeter" or "KAXBLTWT" is sort of branding, as it is used to indicate the product several times in this thread.
> 
> one way of looking at it, is that these aren't a "Kravchenko" design since they are some tweeters that are already in production, so putting one's name on the grill may have had some repercussions. I say this, because it appears he is walking a fine line between offering something he develops, and something already in production.
> 
> If he wants it to remain the way it is, what are you going to call your new tweeters, when people ask you what they are?
> 
> Might be inconsequential to many, but to me it's kind of important that I have a name to go with the pretty face at 125 a pair.


Didn't i read where you said you were leaving?


----------



## strakele

cajunner said:


> oh, and "Kravchenko Acoustics XBL Tweeter" or "KAXBLTWT" is sort of branding, as it is used to indicate the product several times in this thread.
> 
> Still has nothing to do with your direct implication that the use of XBL technology was unlicensed. And that's the name of the product. No more a "brand" than 'Civic' or 'Camry' or 'Esotar' or 'Supremo' is a brand.
> 
> one way of looking at it, is that these aren't a "Kravchenko" design since they are some tweeters that are already in production, so putting one's name on the grill may have had some repercussions. I say this, because it appears he is walking a fine line between offering something he develops, and something already in production.
> 
> Half the companies that make speakers and amplifiers are doing just that - putting their logo on something already in production.
> 
> If he wants it to remain the way it is, what are you going to call your new tweeters, when people ask you what they are?
> 
> Might be inconsequential to many, but to me it's kind of important that I have a name to go with the pretty face at 125 a pair.


He has a name for it..


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Any new updates with pictures?


I'll be in China from the 15th of August to the 15th September.

When I'm there I will post info on the production and the Measurements.


----------



## sirbOOm

So... someone needs to use this tweeter now.


----------



## teldzc1

I purchased these on the premise that these are improved versions of the CSS LD25x which are an existing design. My biggest issue with the LD25x was that the faceplate was too large, this seems to be resolved with this tweeter, along with some QA issues which I wasn’t aware of. As far as I know, Mark was a part of the design team and either owns or is licensed to use the design. Whether or not its branded doesn’t matter to me.

In any case, I really just want to follow this thread to find out status of the production and any updates to the product. Also to ask some relatively simple questions to Mark. Not trying to get involved in whatever cajunner wants from Mark so I usually skip his posts and scan Mark’s for any relevant information. However, everyone is entitled to their questions. If Mark feels like lines are getting crossed, I think he would let everyone know.


----------



## strakele

cajunner said:


> potato, potato.
> 
> we find out it's licensed on post 185 of the thread, I think I'm justified in wanting to have that made clear.
> 
> Like I said, there's nothing wrong with asking about it to clarify. I have no issue with that. What I have issue with is writing 2 paragraphs implying they're unlicensed, instead of just asking straight up if they were licensed. That's all. It's not your questions. It's the way you ask them, mainly.
> 
> if it's not licensed, then when we buy these tweeters we are in possession of goods that are in conflict with laws.
> 
> Even if that were the case, you said you didn't even care lol
> 
> If that's just too harsh to see, if that's going to set off your white knight syndrome, just PM me to remove my posts, I'll probably do it for you. I don't really care that much, you know? Not if it's going to cause someone a little upset stomach, or make you pull at your short hairs. I mean, what I want doesn't matter at all...


By all means, keep your posts and let others form their own opinions about the questions and answers in this thread. I'm not even buying these tweeters. I do like to see someone with the resources to bring something to market come on here and take requests/ask for feedback, and answer questions about a product.

I'm not trying to defend Mark because I think you're being a big meanie on the internet. I don't know the guy, never heard his stuff. I just think your methods are less than stellar, I guess. If you think that makes me a sissy white knight then whatever.

You have 36 mostly long posts in this thread which all really boil down to faceplate design, XBL sensitivity/power handling/output and branding. Which, if written clearly and concisely, could have been asked and answered in a couple posts.

Sorry everyone for carrying this on.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Now are there any other questions?

Are the crossover points making sense?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Any chance some of this stuff could get cleaned up a little?

This last page has very little to do with the subject at hand.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Thank you so much for the clean up. Don't know who did it but it looks very well edited.

Now getting to the short and sweet of this.

A week left just about to get in on the group buy.

We are cracking 17 people as soon as one transaction clears.


----------



## teldzc1

Mark - What options will there be to purchase the tweeter after the group buy? I'm thinking if I like them, I may get a set for the wifey.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

teldzc1 said:


> Mark - What options will there be to purchase the tweeter after the group buy? I'm thinking if I like them, I may get a set for the wifey.


I'm looking into this. I will make a greater number of mounting cups than what is required right now.

So there should be some available. But what happens with every driver run I do I send out samples to clients and my over run gets used up.

So if you like them let me know. 

These will be produced fairly continuously. But the cups are a very expensive part of this little venture. Seriously I'm taking it on the chin with the pricing I am ending up with.

No worries for those who bought or who will buy under this group buy. I will honor my price. After this group buy the price will go to reflect what the cups are costing me.

Can't keep making them if I'm not covering the costs!

If someone reads this and gets all worried I'm doubling the price or something the cups cost me $15 more than I was hoping. So I'm marking them up 30% ( $19.50 ) So to keep round numbers the next available batch will go up by $40 a set. $165 a set shipped.

This is still a stinking steal in this quality level. 

Once the cups are out and in the field please give me feedback. I'll incorporate any reasonable design changes into the next run.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I have to admit to making a mistake on the 50 SPL graph. I normally do work in home and pro sound.

We simulate in what is called 2 Pi acoustical space. Basically one reflective surface.

In a car there are reflective surfaces on every dimension. Espeacally in the frequency bandwidth this tweeter covers. So here is the proper in car graph. Old simulation is in grey:



The top end will be louder than simulated. 

If you are wondering what short peaks of 150 watts will do, well you asked for it.



See that red line?

Well that is where the tweeter hits a hard limit in excursion ability.

Below is a sim with the recommended crossover of 2400 



Here is a crossover schematic. Simple 4rth order:



If you can do a little figuring out you might stumble upon the concept that now we should be able to work with even higher peaks. (PEAKS NOT CONTINUOUS PLEASE)

So now with A 4rth order x-over we protect the tweeter from over excursion. And yes you can push clean watts peaks of a couple hundred watts for very short periods. I hate it. But it gets called music power.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Anybody want to see a couple of active crossover simulations?

Different crossover points and different slopes to try?


----------



## neal00

Yes please


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Should I make a better labeled passive crossover?

Cuz that one was quick and dirty. I could fancy it up some.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

neal00 said:


> Yes please


I'll get to it some time today. Busy day.

Framing up walls. Not a pretty face, so I has to be good for sumthin!


----------



## Kevmoso

sending pm


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So those who are going active cross cover.

What is the highest order slope you guys can generate?

I can simulate up to eighth order.


----------



## rton20s

Not that I have pre-ordered, but the lowest, steepest crossover I have available is 4th order 24dB/octave @ 1.25 kHz. This is with the pretty common Pioneer DEH-80PRS. 

(Also available 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th order @ 1.6k, 2k, 2.5k, 3.15k, 4k, 5k, 6.3k, 8k, 10k, 12.5k.)


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> So those who are going active cross cover.
> 
> What is the highest order slope you guys can generate?
> 
> I can simulate up to eighth order.


i am going active, and i believe the Helix DSP can go 30db with its current software, and the update i believe is going to allow 48db.


----------



## neal00

My bit one will do eighth order.


----------



## teldzc1

Would be nice to see plots for 4th order and frequencies from 2k-3k.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## Weightless

I'd love to see 1600 @ 24 and steeper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Been working pretty hard the past few days. So I will get some time to set up the requested simulations, possibly tomorrow.

Been helping a friend of mine frame up walls on his shop. Stuff I used to do when I had hair. This actually working for a while wastes me! But I do enjoy it.


----------



## Nismo

Mark,
You mentioned that 3.2k is a bad idea. In a 3 way, with a 3" mid...where would you suggest the xover point, and at what slope?

Thanks,
Eric


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Nismo said:


> Mark,
> You mentioned that 3.2k is a bad idea. In a 3 way, with a 3" mid...where would you suggest the xover point, and at what slope?
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric



It may not be that bad. But consider a few things. Is the mid positioned in such a way that you can hear it really well? Positioned something like your tweeter would be? If it is, then it would be best to make use of it's ability to cover the complete human voice and most of the range of music where we hear depth and position cues. SO that is right up and around 4.5 kilohertz.

A driver basically begins to beam or sound like you know where the sound is coming from at a frequency higher than the active width of the driver. You probably know the active width of a woofer is the middle of the surround to the middle of the surround. That is pretty much the same way with every driver.

To figure out the frequency where this begins o happen you have to do a little math. 

The speed of sound is often listed as 343 meters per second. So to get a wavelength of sound you have to divide this speed by the frequency you are interested in.

Your initial question was 3200 hertz.

So

343/3200 = 0.1071875. Now you have a length. Since you started in meters with the 343 you are still in meters. There are 100 centimeters in a meter.

100 x 0.1071875 = 10.718 centimeters.

If you want inches you divide by 2.54

10.718/2.54 = 4.22 inches roughly.

So if you want a crossover point up that high you should use a driver with an active area smaller than 4.22 inches.

Your mid is perfect for this.

Your tweeter is perfect for this because it to is smaller than this dimension.

This makes the math a lot easier:

Wavelength frequency convert lambda Hz sound conversion acoustics acoustic audio radio measure speed of sound and radio typical waves wave length light vacuum equation formula for frequency speed of light color electromagnetic spectrum - sengpielaudi

And you can work with confidence.

Now I'm off to hammer some more nails.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This group buy ends this Friday.

I will honor the price stated until then.

After Friday it goes up to $165.


----------



## blueatlanta

darn, id buy in, but i can afford to until the 8th


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Start the process and I'll honor the price.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok gents. I just found me a dirt simple video capture application and I'll be making a video showing as much as I can this evening. Hope it works as easy as they say. 

This way I can show a whole bunch of options in crossover sims, and some directivity sims that show what some of my comments to Eric.

And the video will not be so grainy! I hope.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

For anyone thinking they want these but only next payday.

Here is how it works.

I'll invoice you. You pay on the agreed to day. If not the invoice disappears from my end and so does your lower price.

So you set the day, I give a week latitude. And you get an invoice. If you honor the invoice you get a cheaper price.

The buck stops here.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Still hammering nails and making huge doors.

But the end is near. Have not forgotten about about the cross over videos.

Possibly Sunday.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok here is the Crossover video.

Any questions or other ideas, don't be shy.

You ask I answer.



Yes this is a video!

And yes I finally got the video capture app working.


----------



## Flinchy

sooo did i miss the group buy cutoff date?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Not exactly.

Send me a P.M.


----------



## etroze

That looks awesome, glad these can be so flexible with the right crossovers.


----------



## req

right on man! thanks for taking the time to do that


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I was just a little bit busy. All the shop wall framing is complete. And I have a happy friend.

Back to helping out you guys!


----------



## t-man

I am interested in a set. Is it too late to jump on board the group buy? 

I was looking at some Scanspeak D3004/6020-00, how would you say these would compare to them? 

Thanks


----------



## mwmkravchenko

t-man said:


> I am interested in a set. Is it too late to jump on board the group buy?
> 
> I was looking at some Scanspeak D3004/6020-00, how would you say these would compare to them?
> 
> Thanks


This is a very well engineered tweeter. Similar in the design goals to mine.

The difference is in the cost to you, and potentially a little different sound at higher output levels.

The mechanics are very similar.

The differences are that the motor structure on this tweeter uses three magnets to energize the air gap where the coil rests. 

I have played around with this idea, but I believe it is more prone to generating odd order distortion. 

This is the kind of distortion that is really irritating.

So bottom line difference.

Not that much.

Difference in cost:

$111.60 each plus shipping.

Mine 82.50 with shipping.

This is the current price. $165/pair shipped. There are drivers available at this price. The group buy price is done.

If there is interest, the same system applies. Send me a P.M. and include your Paypal linked email address. I will send you an invoice.


----------



## buguy

Balls! As always....a day late and a dollar short. Looks like I just missed the group buy.


----------



## douggiestyle

I'm glad I squeezed in before the presale deadline. Best of luck, I'm looking forward to the 8 and the AMTs.

Mark, you mentioned that this will be smaller than the CSSLD25X, would we still get a waveguide that fits the LD25X?

I am contemplating modifying one of the pellegrene waveguides you mentioned into this location:


















For a size reference, that is a 3.5" Fountek FR88EX

Thanks and good luck.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Mark, you mentioned that this will be smaller than the CSSLD25X, would we still get a waveguide that fits the LD25X?


Yes. There may be a little bit of sanding involved but the dome is very close to the same size.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Huge announcement.


Extend the group buy until Friday August 15th.

When I leave the time is done for the group buy price.

Many have contacted me privately and asked.

Bottom line is I set aside 100 pcs for this group buy. I have sold 58. When we hit one hundred pieces I'm done.



So old price is in effect.

$125 shipped. Until August 15th.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Well Another video that you can actually see clearly.

A simulation that shows how as frequency rises the overall coverage area shrinks.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Everyone that has purchased a set should be emailing me your postal address.

Some of you have it entered in Paypal. Some do not.

You can reach me at:

mark at kravchenko dash audio dot com.

I leave for China on the 15th of August.

So here is how this works. As long as I am in China I can't ship to you guys. An English address will not get through the mail system over there. Tried it before.

So if I can get over to Hong Kong I can ship them out there.

If not, when I get back I ship them.

I will keep everyone posted about what is going on here.

I should be back in October. Don't know when yet. 

I have lots to do over there.

Dial in a correction curve for an anechoic chamber, do production runs on six drivers. Design new AMT diaphragms.

Oh yeah.

A shallow version of my killer 6.5.

Everyone that has been getting info on it loves everything except the depth.

I shall see what I can do.

The 8 and 15 are also in the works to be produced when I'm there.

Clock is ticking on the group buy price. When I leave the door closes, as I have to knock off enough mounts for the tweeters.


----------



## req

sweet! thanks mark! just sent you an email with my shipping addres if you didnt already have it from paypal.



marky barky bo ***** said:


> I leave for China on the 15th of August.


good luck over there!







mark said:


> So here is how this works. As long as *I am in China *I can't ship to you guys. An English address will not get through the mail system over there. Tried it before.
> 
> So if I can get over to *Hong Kong I can ship them out there*.


hong kong is in china though... lol


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Originally Posted by marky barky bo *****, MAAARK


OooooooH! Thems fightin wurds!

I think I have your address someplace.

Haven't been to Viginia Beach for quite a while, Hmmmm....


----------



## mwmkravchenko

In Hong Kong English was used for quite a long time. The Brits had a hundred year lease right.

In Guangzhou where I will be working there is no chance. I tried a few times. The package comes back all beat up.

Getting things couriered with English addresses works. But I don't have the coin in this to pull that off.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen
Eric Hause

Keep em coming Gents.

Neat video working with one of my clients:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImfWDjyrnhs&list=UUnqy2i5mVNJnQ4ZSsN0e6EQ

Seven foot tall Line array.


----------



## edouble101

I just emailed you my shipping address. Email subject is "Eric Clark shipping address". 

Thanks


----------



## etroze

Hoping you got my email Sir.


----------



## mike_mn

Can anyone recommend a backup low cost tweeter for me while waiting for these to come in that will have the same 50mm(2 inch) cutout mounting?

I put all my eggs in one basket assuming these would be here in August, then September. Now with it being October, I would like to at least have something else that I can mount in advance for when they arrive to just drop in.

It would be nice to have something that crosses low, but I am not gonna be too choosy for a low dollar tweeter.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I have two unmounted if it helps.


----------



## mike_mn

mwmkravchenko said:


> I have two unmounted if it helps.


You mean I would get 2 now instead of after the production run? or are they just dummies I could use for getting the mounting correct?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

They are exactly as pictured in the first post.

No cup.

If you wrap your tweeter in plat is wrap, you can form a quick and dirty mount out of bondo.

I can ship you the mount when they are done. Will be a bit of gluing on your part.


----------



## mike_mn

I am a pretty big fan of, over analyze a lot, then do it once. So I will wait for the tweeters. 

I am not as far as expected with my build, so it is entirely possible that I wont need the tweeters til October anyways, but was looking for a same mounting design tweeter in case I am ready to fire it up and left with only the stock tweeters til yours get here. 

It is the one thing that I didn't expect doing this build. I spend about 80% of my time pondering and staring at the project vs. 20% of the time actually doing work on the install. I have about 30 hours logged into the install with at best 6 hours of actual work being done... I am very excited to get these tweeters for my 2-way all XBL^2 build.


----------



## DBlevel

I might have to try a pair


----------



## mwmkravchenko

DBlevel said:


> I might have to try a pair


It all starts with a PM and a Paypal linked email address.


----------



## legend94

Very intriguing and I love supporting start up companies.

Will the grill look much like the scan grills?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

legend94 said:


> Very intriguing and I love supporting start up companies.
> 
> Will the grill look much like the scan grills?


That's the whole idea.

The body of the cup will either be delrin or aluminum.

Still working out pricing on the two. People act much faster when I get there.

I'm called Shrek behind my back!

As for being a start up.

Kind of.

This more like an Initial Public Offering.

I've been in and around this business since 1989. Been consulting for the past 14 years.

This is the first time drivers of this quality level have been offered to DIY by myself.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Three days left. 

For the guys sitting on the fence, make up your mind!

For everyone else I will be making soe pics, and videos of the production run. May be interesting.

If I can post ii on Youtube I will. Depends on what happens with my VPN when I get to China.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Eighteen of the 29 Gentlemen have verified their addresses. 

For those that have paid. If you want your tweeters I want an address confirmed.

Once they are shipped there is no way to reroute them if your address is incorrect.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I moved the list over here so it is relatively easy to find.


This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto

Keep em coming Gents.


----------



## Victor_inox

anyone actually heard how they sounds yet?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

They sound like they measure.

Very clean and neutral.

Exceedingly low distortion. So they stay clean at fairly loud levels.

Two gents at least have them.

They could possibly chime in a give their two cents.


----------



## foreman

Email sent Mark!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Two days left.


----------



## mykel

PM sent.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So I can continue editing this list I posted it again.

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard

Keep em coming Gents.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok so there is the extension period. Come and gone.



The price from now on is $165.



I'm typing this from a huge hotel room in Hong Kong.

I think If I really stretch I could touch two walls.

So I guess that means I is in China.

Long flight from Hongcouver to Hong Kong.

Today I get myself over to Guangzhou.


----------



## legend94

Would be awesome if you posted some pics. Maybe in off topic.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Will be posting pics.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So I'm in Guangzhou.

Go to work this morning.

See what I can do for pics.


----------



## legend94

mwmkravchenko said:


> So I'm in Guangzhou.
> 
> Go to work this morning.
> 
> See what I can do for pics.


make sure you get that huge hotel room in the pics!


----------



## req

sweet 

looking forward to it!


----------



## Schizm

legend94 said:


> make sure you get that huge hotel room in the pics!


Lol you should have seen the suite they GAVE my sister and her boyfriend when we had a layover there! Crazy huge lol

My free room was very big but not nearly as big as theirs lol. Theirs had a hot tub in the bathroom!

P.s. my shower had nice granite looking tile on all the walls and maybe floor and ceiling. It had an overhead rain shower head in the middle of the ceiling and 1 regular head on all three walls...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Will be assembling tweeters soon. Any stragglers should give me a quick P.M. Cuz I can still slip them in.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So the butterfly assemblies are here. This is the plastic part that is used to hold everything together.

I'll see if I can make a video to show the whole thing.

They are 3D printed. My production runs are to small to make up a injection mold for this little part. So you guys get some cutting edge 3D printed parts.


----------



## Electrodynamic

I've got a pair of these sitting my office desk that will be installed in my VW Jetta once I get my XBL^2 mids finalized. Seeing the data on these tweeters has me extremely excited about using them in my install.


----------



## Flinchy

will have to grab a pair when they go on full sale, will be kicking myself for not getting in on the group buy haha


----------



## edouble101

Very cool!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett

Keep em coming Gents.


----------



## foreman

Let us know how they sound! Would love to pair these with your new mids coming out 





Electrodynamic said:


> I've got a pair of these sitting my office desk that will be installed in my VW Jetta once I get my XBL^2 mids finalized. Seeing the data on these tweeters has me extremely excited about using them in my install.


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> I've got a pair of these sitting my office desk that will be installed in my VW Jetta once I get my XBL^2 mids finalized. Seeing the data on these tweeters has me extremely excited about using them in my install.


if a speaker designer such as yourself has committed to the group buy, people should really take notice and blow out those remaining pairs that straggled behind in the initial set aside for the group.

then going to extremes, or saying you're extremely excited about them, is more than a simple gesture from one niche speaker guy to a budding entrepreneur, it's a ringing endorsement that may best be viewed as an invite to produce, 




wait for it...










a component set, with the shallow mid bass as complementary?


will your 6.5" XBL shallows, be able to reach 1800 hz to 2200 hz without serious beaming issues or cone/dustcap anomalies in the FR?


might be a collaboration worth pursuing, especially if you guys can land on a passive network that us DIY crowd can assemble using good parts sourced from the far east's good supplier chains?

It would be pretty freaking special as far as special goes, might even compete with a certain reptilian offering, soon come...


----------



## foreman

All sorts of Innuendo going on there





cajunner said:


> if a speaker designer such as yourself has committed to the group buy, people should really take notice and blow out those remaining pairs that straggled behind in the initial set aside for the group.
> 
> then going to extremes, or saying you're extremely excited about them, is more than a simple gesture from one niche speaker guy to a budding entrepreneur, it's a ringing endorsement that may best be viewed as an invite to produce,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wait for it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a component set, with the shallow mid bass as complementary?
> 
> 
> will your 6.5" XBL shallows, be able to reach 1800 hz to 2200 hz without serious beaming issues or cone/dustcap anomalies in the FR?
> 
> 
> might be a collaboration worth pursuing, especially if you guys can land on a passive network that us DIY crowd can assemble using good parts sourced from the far east's good supplier chains?
> 
> It would be pretty freaking special as far as special goes, might even compete with a certain reptilian offering, soon come...


----------



## rton20s

Nick stated in his shallow 6.5" thread that his mids were good up to about 2.5k. These seem, on the surface, to be a very nice match to the KAXBLTWT. 

I have a feeling I'm going to be kicking myself for not getting in on the pre-order. 


And I think you mean amphibian offering. Though, I could be wrong.


----------



## cajunner

rton20s said:


> Nick stated in his shallow 6.5" thread that his mids were good up to about 2.5k. These seem, on the surface, to be a very nice match to the KAXBLTWT.
> 
> I have a feeling I'm going to be kicking myself for not getting in on the pre-order.
> 
> 
> And I think you mean amphibian offering. Though, I could be wrong.


did you just correct me?

I think you did!



yes, I mean that beautiful green bling, with the chrome and the fancy L(ily)-pad, and those sweet grills that aren't really grills but lenses to reduce off-axis beaming...

now I know that the mounting scheme is a bit more thought out, on the frog but that's no reason we can't dimension up a pirated printing or two, or 3-D...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

There are 36 pcs left on the set aside.

I have all the components for the tweeters here sitting and waiting. But build slot is delayed because of supplier delays on other projects, and the accumulated backup.

Yes stuff never goes as planned.

So short story. If you want in. There are 36 tweeters left at the original price. $125 a pair shipped.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I keep getting questions about my midbass, and my want to be subwoofer 8 inch. And the uber 15 inch.

Parts are here. Have the custom machined frames. Spiders are getting custom tooled. The same supplier that is causing havoc with the build schedule is making the steel for these. So it's a hurry up and wait situation.

There are some pics on my photobucket. I'll throw on new ones as I have info.

Fun and games over here.

Voiced some crossovers for a few Avantone speakers. They use my AMT and it was a real treat working with Craig. Very sharp guy.

Now I'm doing photolithography on some new AMT designs. Then photochemical etching.

Real men use Ultraviolet Lights!


----------



## snaimpally

"Delivery within 60 days of this groupbuy. So end of August or sooner."

Its now the end of August - can we please get a status update?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

snaimpally said:


> "Delivery within 60 days of this groupbuy. So end of August or sooner."
> 
> Its now the end of August - can we please get a status update?



As this is the end of August you have a good question here.

The build of the drivers is happening this morning. They had an opening and I took it! Even though I am a consultant for this company, I do have to wait for a build slot. My orders are pretty small.

Pics of the assembly as it occurs. They are starting now. It's a couple day process for the glues to cure properly.

This is referring to the tweeter driver.

The car mount is taking me a little longer than I expected. The fun and games of getting small machining runs accomplished in China.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I can control design. I can keep quality at a consistent level. But I cannot build every part . That rests on the capable hands of people I work with.

I left for China a month later than I expected due to delays on the Anechoic chamber that I am supposed to be working on over here.

When I got here they were seriously behind on deliveries from their machining vendor. That was straightened out the first week I arrived. 

Even in China there are very few forging/machining operations that will supply certified 1008 steel. That is ultra low carbon. Almost impossible to buy in North America.

So keeping up the desired design goals has been a pain. And yes I am a month behind on delivery time. But I will keep every last tweeter to the advertised specification. 

Those that have them will be able to attest that they are indeed a very smooth sounding driver.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I can control design. I can keep quality at a consistent level. But I cannot build every part . That rests on the capable hands of people I work with.
> 
> I left for China a month later than I expected due to delays on the Anechoic chamber that I am supposed to be working on over here.
> 
> When I got here they were seriously behind on deliveries from their machining vendor. That was straightened out the first week I arrived.
> 
> Even in China there are very few forging/machining operations that will supply certified 1008 steel. That is ultra low carbon. Almost impossible to buy in North America.
> 
> So keeping up the desired design goals has been a pain. And yes I am a month behind on delivery time. But I will keep every last tweeter to the advertised specification.
> 
> Those that have them will be able to attest that they are indeed a very smooth sounding driver.


Thanks... It's more important that this speaker is built correctly than if it's built quickly. I think everyone can agree on that.


----------



## Kevmoso

miniSQ said:


> Thanks... It's more important that this speaker is built correctly than if it's built quickly. I think everyone can agree on that.


^^^ this


----------



## teldzc1

For sure. I'm in no rush. I'm actually incredibly interested in the build process. Pics would be awesome! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Pics are slowly going up on Photobucket.

I'll set up some comments and annotation later.

Forgot my power supply for my laptop at my hotel room. 

So taking pics and putting them up with my phone.


----------



## edouble101

I don't know of too many custom speaker manufacturers that run on schedule. I'm sure a few folks will be irritated with a delay though. It's all part of the fun


----------



## mwmkravchenko

edouble101 said:


> I don't know of too many custom speaker manufacturers that run on schedule. I'm sure a few folks will be irritated with a delay though. It's all part of the fun


Oh believe me I'm irritated.

I just have options that I have to play out. And it can be a pain.

Magically some tweeter mount samples have arrived from a different vendor.

I'll see if these are a workable option.

Pics will be going up soon.

This is happening. Just not as fast as I would like.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

OK here are some videos and pics:

It all starts with a signature:



This starts the process and means I'm happy with the pre-production run.



They meet spec. This is the tweeter response in the test chamber. This is not the tweeter response.



The cup. Notice the little ring close to the edge? That forms a dual gap return path. The center has a magnet and a top plate.



Simple like pie.



All the magnets get centered.


----------



## iroller

Can I get in on one of the 35 pairs left ?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Send me a PM


----------



## mwmkravchenko

OK now back to production videos. These are all videos. So click on them and watch. They are kind of interesting.



This is glueing up the top plate to the magnet. If you look closely you will see that there are two application tips. It's a two component adhesive. The good stuff.



They get setup with centering jigs and cure.

So what's next? voicecoil to dome:



And another view:



This gives you another look at the system used to bond the voice coil to the dome.

The dome is held in a vacuum chuck and there is a slight vacuum used to hold and draw in the glue applied to the voice coil former.

All theses parts are curing over Sunday. And I should have some tweeters on Monday.

Pics and videos to come will show magnetizing and testing of the drivers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I moved the list over here so it is relatively easy to find.


This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya
Shiv Naimpally

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.


----------



## H3nry

Mark,
Didn't see my name on the list...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

H3nry said:


> Mark,
> Didn't see my name on the list...


That's because you fell off of the list.

Now your back on.

Sorry Henry.


----------



## edouble101

Those production videos are interesting to watch. Can you send me a t-shirt like the ones the employees wear?


----------



## Flinchy

i for one am not displeased it was delayed, letting me get in on it haha. can wait as long as it takes to get sweet tweets


----------



## snaimpally

mwmkravchenko said:


> I moved the list over here so it is relatively easy to find.
> 
> 
> This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:
> 
> Either through Paypal or through email.
> 
> Mike Brack
> Jack Hurdle
> David Pui
> Darin Etherington
> Fang-Chu Chang
> Richard Hall
> Kevin Pickett
> Tad Sumida
> Jason Bowers
> Andrew Ranger
> Tim Morton
> Justin Reed
> Scott Crane
> Eric Clark
> Tam Nguyen
> Mike Wolfe
> Ernest Trosen
> Eric Hause
> Chris Collalto
> Neal Kakimoto
> Michael Collins
> Doug McShane
> David Cheong
> Alexey Dillard
> Brendan Trickett
> Roger Blad
> Henry Wijaya
> 
> Keep em coming Gents.
> 
> If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.
> 
> So please check this list.


I sent payment (on June 24) but am not on the list.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Fixed.

This website did not like me for a little while.

Now I'm back in! Muhhahhaaaaa!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok so I'll put up some more videos and pics tonight.

The tweeters are done. And I'm hunting around for a vendor that will make me some mounts. I was fortunate enough to be able to get a few that look pretty good. I'll put them up to. If I can get these turned for me I think we will all be happy.

Stay tuned.

If anyone else is still sitting on the fence. I can blow out the remaining 32 pieces if there is interest. Otherwise I'll leave them unmounted. Good to use for stereo applications as well. I am working on a home audio mount to.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Im working on selling of pair of tweets I have, if they sell before you run out ill be in.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I do driver runs like this one from time to time for other companies. I may keep these in permanent stock.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So last video shows bonding the voice coil to the dome.

That sets for a while and we go to the next step. 



Piles of little domes waiting to be glued to a butterfly assembly. Heck if I know why it's called that. Never saw any flitting around looking for flowers!

So here be a glue application video.



Automation and people power. Consistent glue lines make a consistent product.

Now the interesting part.



Yep a motor. Don't fall asleep yet.



Now motor with ferro fluid and a little cap of foam. It's there so when your kids poke it in they get to feel something squisshy. Or not. Maybe it's there to absorb a little energy from the sound that passes through the dome.


Now a mount. Chased this one down. Looks good. But they don't want to supply mount only.





I'm not worried. There are lots of companies around here that have CNC lathes. Will be out for tenders in about a week. 

There are a few measurement pics up on photobucket. But I'll arrange them and put some comments tomorrow.


----------



## Flinchy

damn those are some sexy mounts!


----------



## teldzc1

Can you post the link to your photobucket?


----------



## mwmkravchenko




----------



## mwmkravchenko

Mervin Kruckshank's (mwmkravchenko) Library | Photobucket

Here's the link to the whole shooting match.

Some stuff I haven't made public yet.

I have a whole whack of metal parts for midwoofers and A killer subwoofer that came in yesterday.

So I'll be putting up a thread for that soon enough. I will offer some fortunate few a buy in on the pre-production run. A testing of the waters. These drivers are pushing the limits as to what can be accomplished in each particular frame size. All of them are XBL and no bell or whistle has been left untouched. I'll post video and images soon.

Give me some feedback on the mount. I'm getting it drawn up by Lucy. She is a cracker jack at Solid Works.


----------



## rton20s

Is this the final mount design, or just an option you are looking at? 

My only comment is that the transition (angle) between the grill and cup ring could be a little cleaner. We won't talk about the hole in the bottom of the cup.  I do like that you are looking at a metal cup rather than plastic.


----------



## miniSQ

Not sure i love it..

for example, the HAT tweeter seems to have some influence on your design, which is fine, its a beautiful tweeter.

But IMO, your grill is over powering your ring, and there is not really much style going on. 



Same for the scan tweeter...similar grill to the scan, but the scan ring balances out the grill better.


----------



## edouble101

I would prefer a flat grill and an all black frame grill combo.


----------



## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> Mervin Kruckshank's (mwmkravchenko) Library | Photobucket
> 
> Here's the link to the whole shooting match.
> 
> Some stuff I haven't made public yet.
> 
> I have a whole whack of metal parts for midwoofers and A killer subwoofer that came in yesterday.
> 
> So I'll be putting up a thread for that soon enough. I will offer some fortunate few a buy in on the pre-production run. A testing of the waters. These drivers are pushing the limits as to what can be accomplished in each particular frame size. All of them are XBL and no bell or whistle has been left untouched. I'll post video and images soon.
> 
> Give me some feedback on the mount. I'm getting it drawn up by Lucy. She is a cracker jack at Solid Works.


Keep me posted on the pre-production run of these drivers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yep. The floodgates open.

It's a possibility.

I'm looking into it being quoted on by next week. There is a big holiday over here coming up. 

The HAT mount is nice. But at this point it is way beyond my price range. That is a custom injection molded cup. Cheap to knock off after you have a 2 to 3 grand mold made.

If I get enough feedback that's positive and enough requests to do this again I will look into the molding idea.

As for plastic.

Delrin is pretty cool stuff. Most of the time people confuse it with metal when I show them machined samples. It's an Acetal, so it is actually pretty hard. And it machines beautifully. 

That is pretty much where I am with this. Moving along to another hopeful vendor to get the mounts.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> Yep. The floodgates open.
> 
> It's a possibility.
> 
> I'm looking into it being quoted on by next week. There is a big holiday over here coming up.
> 
> The HAT mount is nice. But at this point it is way beyond my price range. That is a custom injection molded cup. Cheap to knock off after you have a 2 to 3 grand mold made.
> 
> If I get enough feedback that's positive and enough requests to do this again I will look into the molding idea.
> 
> As for plastic.
> 
> Delrin is pretty cool stuff. Most of the time people confuse it with metal when I show them machined samples. It's an Acetal, so it is actually pretty hard. And it machines beautifully.
> 
> That is pretty much where I am with this. Moving along to another hopeful vendor to get the mounts.


Hey...you asked for input

Will the ring for sure be chromed? Or is black still an option?


----------



## foreman

As long as the mounts are metal i'll just powdercoat mine


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I just looked up that beautiful tweeter from Hybrid Audio.

Looks like a vifa ring radiator.



And also looks like I am in the wrong price bracket. :surprised:

If I was charging that much it would not be any problem to make a back cup like that.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I just looked up that beautiful tweeter from Hybrid Audio.
> 
> Looks like a vifa ring radiator.
> 
> 
> 
> And also looks like I am in the wrong price bracket. :surprised:
> 
> If I was charging that much it would not be any problem to make a back cup like that.


i don't care about the back cup, that just happened to be the picture i found. I was trying to say the proportions between the the grill and the surrounding ring looked off. Of course thats not seeing the tweeter itself inside. So maybe the grill isn't as large as it appears to be.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> i don't care about the back cup, that just happened to be the picture i found. I was trying to say the proportions between the the grill and the surrounding ring looked off. Of course that's not seeing the tweeter itself inside. So maybe the grill isn't as large as it appears to be.


I agree that the dome is a little to round.

A pretty much flat dome looks the best as far as I'm concerned.

And I to like all black. I have a sample that is all black.

These are tweeters that I simply picked up for another client. I thought the mount was a decent starting point. Hence the hole on the back for their wire.

My tweeter requires two holes in the back. 

This cup as it is is to short to mount the XBL tweeter properly.

I still have to laugh at what some of these things cost. Simply amazing.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I agree that the dome is a little to round.
> 
> A pretty much flat dome looks the best as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> And I to like all black. I have a sample that is all black.
> 
> These are tweeters that I simply picked up for another client. I thought the mount was a decent starting point. Hence the hole on the back for their wire.
> 
> My tweeter requires two holes in the back.
> 
> This cup as it is is to short to mount the XBL tweeter properly.
> 
> I still have to laugh at what some of these things cost. Simply amazing.


i remember a few years ago..maybe it was more, when they first announced that SE version of that tweeter and people were falling all over themselves to to spend a grand on a pair...i would just stare at my screen with jaw on floor.:surprised:

I found this link for one prebuy..so maybe it wasn't a grand...sorry. But i think there was another tweeter prebuy.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eleasing-l1-pro-se-ring-radiator-tweeter.html


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I stopped reading when Tom offered to drop his panties.

Way to much information!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So one pic and lots of videos. Pics don't do justice to the great work these girls do.




The KA marching band. Lots of high end. No low end. And they just can't keep a formation for the sake of .....



Magnetizing the motors. Just a little bit of electricity is being used. Watch the cables near the wall when she energizes the coil.



Foam backing for the tweeters.



Verification of motor strength over four points. They are all recorded for QC to check.



Precision application of Ferrofluid into the motor gap.



It's a dirty job. But someone has to do it. Each tweeter has to pass a rub and buzz test.



Final assembly. No machine can do this easily.



Remember me stating a 2mm X-max. Well take a good look. There is plenty of wire to pull that off.


----------



## cajunner

very nice look into the build, a relative first in my experience and so much transparency warms the heart of an old tinker who takes tweeters apart to look at them, here you get the sensation of putting them together.

thanks for these latest posts, Mr. Kravchenko.

and along the lines of pricing scale and structure I believe you may be correct in that you have designed in an apparently low profit margin for yourself, if you intend to put these tweeters alongside the best in the market and let third-party testing make the comparisons, to go with the subjective reviews from enthusiastic owners.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> and along the lines of pricing scale and structure I believe you may be correct in that you have designed in an apparently low profit margin for yourself, if you intend to put these tweeters alongside the best in the market and let third-party testing make the comparisons, to go with the subjective reviews from enthusiastic owners.


I have been in this business for 25 years. And it never ceases to blow me away how much money can be asked for a relatively inexpensive product.

So I decided to take a simple run at this. Present the real deal and see who was interested.

Turns out quite a few people are.

And I'm more than happy to show how things are really done in a really high quality product.

Will my prices go up?

A little bit. But only to cover a modest margin on the real costs in tooling and production of parts.

I appreciate the kind words. Hope that this has been interesting for all.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

It's finally alive:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...d-max-6-5-inch-xbl-midwoofer.html#post2159906


----------



## teldzc1

I'm excited about the tweeters! I think they look pretty cool actually. Will the grill be easily removable?


----------



## TommyDS

Any possibility to have your products also in Europe? After completion of midwoofer and probably sub development, will be any option to purchase them same time, or should I buy them as they arrive under group buy? Thanks


----------



## iroller

just put me down for everything.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

teldzc1 said:


> I'm excited about the tweeters! I think they look pretty cool actually. Will the grill be easily removable?


Sure. A screw driver and lots of elbow grease.

Takes most things apart if you are patient enough.

What it will look like it totally up to your skill level!

It's all glued together buddy.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

TommyDS said:


> Any possibility to have your products also in Europe? After completion of midwoofer and probably sub development, will be any option to purchase them same time, or should I buy them as they arrive under group buy? Thanks


You can still buy the tweeter. And yes I can ship to Europe. It's an hour and a half drive to Northern New York and I can ship via international flat rate package. It will push the price up by ten dollars for Shipping to Europe.

As for development. There are 4 drivers plus a planar plus an in production AMT. Take a look at my photobucket account.

Mervin Kruckshank's (mwmkravchenko) Library | Photobucket

Available in Europe? If you use the right shipper it is not to bad to get articles over to Europe. And I have no problem selling to Europe. I have contacted a friend in Holland to see if he is interested in distributing the products. We will find out shortly.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

iroller said:


> just put me down for everything.


That's great. You can start with the tweeters. I still have 32 left at the original price.

The other products are getting rolled out shortly. I will have four pre-production drivers shortly. 5.25, 6.5, an 8 and a 15

Check them out:

Mervin Kruckshank's (mwmkravchenko) Library | Photobucket


----------



## ImK'ed

How much for tweeters shipped to uk ? Thanks


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Out of North America The price will be $135

This basically covers the difference in shipping cost.


----------



## ImK'ed

Ok thanks, i really want a pair but funds are low for now just bought a new amp, so in few weeks hopefully.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

ImK'ed said:


> Ok thanks, i really want a pair but funds are low for now just bought a new amp, so in few weeks hopefully.


I seriously doubt that they will all be gone by that time.

No worries.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok down to 30 pcs and billed out to 28. They disappearing finally.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Make that 26. One set has been set aside for a payday to happen.


----------



## etroze

Thank you Sir again can't wait for these to hit my door step.


----------



## ImK'ed

I'll try convince wife i cant live without these or something! Ive been looking for a nice warm sounding tweeter would you say this has the parameters for a warm sound? Currently have focal comps and even off axis is too harsh!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

ImK'ed said:


> I'll try convince wife i cant live without these or something! Ive been looking for a nice warm sounding tweeter would you say this has the parameters for a warm sound? Currently have focal comps and even off axis is too harsh!


I designed these to be smooth and non fatiguing to listen to. No harsh breakups or nasty peaks.


----------



## tjswarbrick

In for a pair.
PayPal sent.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya
Shiv Naimpally
Tom Swarbrick
Raoul Jacques
Fred Dorado
Chris Carroll

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.

Two more paid for and Have addresses.

Please check this list. If you have paid and your not on it let me know.

I believe that two gents have ordered 4 pieces. This leaves me with 68 pieces paid for. And six pieces set aside for people waiting for funds.

That is a grand total of 74 pieces which should leave me with 26 pieces.

You can still purchase at the original price. North America is $125 Europe is $135.

When these are gone the price goes up to $165 North America And $185 Europe.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok. So I am killing time waiting for a ferry to get me back to mainland China.

So you guys get a look at the testing procedure.

The video below shows the master sample, the go/nogo window and how we test each and everyone of these tweeters. The window is a 3 db wide trough that you see as two parallel lines across the screen. Most of the tweeters are pretty much straight down the middle of the measurement window.

Some drop off slightly above 15 khertz. I open up the window to plus 2db and minus 2 db above 10 khz. (kilohertz is thousand hert) (it hertz a lot more) I seriously doubt that many of us can hear much above 15khertz. My hearing poops at 15600 hertz.

Don't ask me how I know. But listening to testing all day has a little to do with it. Enough to drive anyone insane.

Behold the lengths that your tweeters are tested. ( Ok a little over the top)

Seriously they get tested four times. This is the final test. The ones that fail, usually to low an Fs are remade and tested again. If they pass, wonderful. If they don't they get an NG on them. No Good.



Video of the testing procedure.



All tested


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> Should be close to home sometime the end of October.


Does that mean tweeter buyers can now expect November delivery at the earliest? Was hoping to get these before snowfall when i bought them in June.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> Does that mean tweeter buyers can now expect November delivery at the earliest? Was hoping to get these before snowfall when i bought them in June.


The tweeters are made. The only thing holding me back is the housings. That will be in shape before I leave China. May even be done. Not quite sure on the production timing until i get to talk to the vendor. A hundred pieces on a CNC lathe is not a big deal.

I can and will get them shipped back to me in British Columbia.

I can glue them together there. Even qualifies for a made in Canada sticker. From BC after RMAF I can ship them out. So not November. October.

Things always take about a month to get actually accomplished here. Any vendor says yes they can. I've been through two of them. Now I'm dealing with one that I know can through an acquaintance. Should have asked him in the beginning. The factory and the rest of China start back to work on Tuesday. So when I have updates on the housing, I post updates on the housing.

I have incorporated the ideas of a flatter grill and a smooth transition between dome and bezel edge. So that part I can post. I'll see if Lucy can make up a rendering so you guys can see it.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok I have a small OEM biting at my ankels for 20 pcs.

So that leaves not so many.

In fact three sets.

Grab them while you can.


----------



## Darkside S10

OK I'm in for one pair. Where do I send the paypal and address to make sure I get my shipment when ready.
Thanks
Brian


----------



## ImK'ed

Got a pair on the side for me


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Darkside S10 said:


> OK I'm in for one pair. Where do I send the paypal and address to make sure I get my shipment when ready.
> Thanks
> Brian


You send me a P.M.

In the message you give me a Paypal linked email address.

I send you an invoice and from there you get going.

As you are Canadian you get two things. To pay in Canadian dollars and you get to pay the HST.


the long arm of government buddy. But someone has to pay for all the bells and whistles we enjoy here. We all pay a bit for it.


----------



## tjswarbrick

I see in the thread you have said that 1-2 watts is all that's really needed to drive these guys, 40 watts is ideal safe range, and 150 watts is possible with proper setup and crossover settings.
I'm wondering what amplifiers (and other associated equipment) you have used to voice and validate these tweeters.
If you are unable/unwilling to share, I understand - or if you can't publicly, but want to PM me, I accept.

I love getting little glimpses into the minds of people who have the wherewithal (and cojones!) to not only design state-of-the-art top notch gear but to get it produced and marketed out to enthusiasts who will appreciate it. Which is part of why following this has been so much fun.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

tjswarbrick said:


> I see in the thread you have said that 1-2 watts is all that's really needed to drive these guys, 40 watts is ideal safe range, and 150 watts is possible with proper setup and crossover settings.
> I'm wondering what amplifiers (and other associated equipment) you have used to voice and validate these tweeters.
> If you are unable/unwilling to share, I understand - or if you can't publicly, but want to PM me, I accept.
> 
> I love getting little glimpses into the minds of people who have the wherewithal (and cojones!) to not only design state-of-the-art top notch gear but to get it produced and marketed out to enthusiasts who will appreciate it. Which is part of why following this has been so much fun.


Glimpses?

My computer is better at math than me.

But I'm smarter than my computer. Actually an ant is smarter than my computer. ( Darn ants )

It's really not all that complicated.

I listen to them.

I check the voltage that I'm sending them. Do a little math. Voltage squared divided by impedance and you get a crude wattage rating.

I measure them carefully to get accurate Thiele/Small parameters.
Then I plug my numbers into a great program I have been using for years.

I have done enough design work with Hornresp to know that it is very accurate at predicting what a loudspeaker can and cannot do. It's math is very solid. And it's abilities are endless. I know the programmer and we collaborate on additions to the programs capabilities from time to time. He does the programming I do the requests for additions to it.

So like a good mechanic there is a lot of horse sense. Knowing what and where without having to think about it.

I mention the program by name because if you want you can try it out. But it is not an easy program to work with at the start.

Now to address parts of your questions.

In normal use these tweeters will see after the crossover network about 1 to 3 watts. And your tunes will be bloody loud.

I have not listened to these tweeters at 40 watt levels and I have no desire to do so. I like my ears. They let me enjoy music and even talking to people can be nice......

But the same things go for power rating. A given wire diameter, a given coil size and you can calculate how much it will heat up with how many watts in. There are well worked out tables for this kind of thing.

So to get into my mind you have to be able to link together a bunch of different concepts and unify them into something useful.

Voicing is done with crossover work. The driver itself is a combination of parts from different companies. The white plastic part is custom 3D printed, The steel is custom forged and turned. Magnets are a standard size. What makes a great driver is like what makes a good cook. Knowing what to put where and when. And knowing how much and what type of glue for instance. I don't go in for the instant cure glues, they have a higher failure rate when applied in high humidity like there is here. Believe me not sweating will be a treat!

I make my drivers with as clean of a sound as is possible with the chosen combination of materials. If my combination sucks, I change something.

I'm a hands on guy who likes to work physically as well as mentally. I have built houses, and larger buildings, I do plumbing and electrical work to. I'm a licensed cabinet maker and have been in that profession full or part time for almost 30 years. And i keep doing manual labor so as to not kill my computer regularly. I find it therapeutic to get my hands dirty and work up a sweat from now and then.

I'm a guy who is self taught. I learned all this stuff through sheer determination to study the works of people that were before me and very intelligent. What turned out to be a glorified hobby to make the speakers I lusted after but couldn't afford quickly turned into a business. Other people liked what I was doing as well. That was 27 years ago. Everyone stands on the shoulders of people that were before them. I'm no different. What I know I received from others. Being willing to work hard for something and to stick to it came from my parents. And it's what you do with it that matters.


----------



## cksigmapi

Sent you a pm as a follow-up from one a while back. I haven't gotten my invoice! I want to make sure I get my set...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cksigmapi said:


> Sent you a pm as a follow-up from one a while back. I haven't gotten my invoice! I want to make sure I get my set...


Done.


----------



## tjswarbrick

mwmkravchenko said:


> Glimpses?
> 
> It's really not all that complicated.
> 
> I listen to them.


Thanks!

Just an aside, I wasn't questioning the power ratings - I understand the reasoning and am inclined to agree (obviously I haven't had the chance to listen to 'em yet.) Just was wondering what the Designer used to power 'em (figuring it's a range of things that you know well, but I've been wrong before.)

Thanks again for the insight - I'm looking forward to getting my set!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

tjswarbrick said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Just an aside, I wasn't questioning the power ratings - I understand the reasoning and am inclined to agree (obviously I haven't had the chance to listen to 'em yet.) Just was wondering what the Designer used to power 'em (figuring it's a range of things that you know well, but I've been wrong before.)
> 
> Thanks again for the insight - I'm looking forward to getting my set!


You might be interested in the destructive testing!

The type where we let out the smoke....

All electronics run on smoke.

When you let it out they stop running!

We hook a nice big amplifier. And crank it up, usually 10 to 12 volts sine wave in an evil little torture chamber. 

Do the math man. About 44 watts.

Then it usually survives for quite a while. We get bored of listening to the tweeter and try to smoke it.

17, 18, 19, 20 volts. Poof! They usually give up the ghost at 100 watts.

Now a sine wave is a nasty signal for any driver. And is 100% the same power level pushing the dome or pulling the dome. No driver survives long on that kind of a test. Music has peaks and lulls, quiet parts loud parts. 
a sine wave is basically a wall of sound. With nothing but loud.

So you want to know my power amps.

Normal test amp is 75 a side 150 bridged. It's that little Parts Express square faced with a volume knob on the front for about $150.

I have a Parasound that has a bit more grunt. 200 watts into 4 ohms. 400 bridged.

For the big boys or when I'm doing some serious pulse testing I have a 2400 steady state 4800 peak (does 4800 watts for about a second and a half) amplifier from a company called PASCAL Audio.

That usually will get the grunt out of anything I have worked on.

There was a time when I used far higher power handling.

I do design and consulting work for Funk Audio and we were testing his dual 18 inch offering. 

We peaked at 56000 watts into 1.5 ohms.


Believe me there are brown notes.

We were doing 2 meter ground plane testing and I was at ground zero measuring the voltage into the setup. I had ear plugs and aircraft grade ear muffs. Lets say when Nathan asked to do the Pulse testing again there was a very firm no f*****g way!


----------



## tjswarbrick

Fun times.

I do my best to keep the smoke inside.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen 4 pcs
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya 4 pcs
Shiv Naimpally
Tom Swarbrick
Raoul Jacques
Fred Dorado
Chris Carrol
Hissan Haq
Brian Cameron
Christopher Smith
Barry Blitz
Jeremy Wright
Michael Burch

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.

Two more paid for and Have addresses.

Please check this list. If you have paid and your not on it let me know.

I believe that two gents have ordered 4 pieces. This leaves me with 78 pieces paid for. And four pieces set aside for people waiting for funds.

That is a grand total of 84 pieces which should leave me with 18 pieces.

You can still purchase at the original price. North America is $125 Europe is $135.

When these are gone the price goes up to $165 North America And $185 Europe.

There are eight pairs left that I set aside for this group buy.


----------



## ImK'ed

I may have missed this, but what would be best position to mount these tweeters relative to listener? I currently have my tweeters firing across windshield mounted in the a pillars


----------



## mwmkravchenko

There are a great many talented installers on this forum.

My car installation experience is about four cars. And nothing special in any of them.

There are plenty of guys that know this answer way better than I do.


----------



## tjswarbrick

I think the question is: will they perform most linearly on-axis, a little off axis, or fully off axis. Has the frequency response graph at 0, 30 and 60 degrees been posted anywhere yet?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

tjswarbrick said:


> I think the question is: will they perform most linearly on-axis, a little off axis, or fully off axis. Has the frequency response graph at 0, 30 and 60 degrees been posted anywhere yet?


I have the on and the off axis.

And I think I have posted it.

Short answer the more off of straight on you get the more every driver falls off on the top end.

In a really reflective place like a car you want to be off axis by about 20 degrees.

I did a video showing what the response will be like as you get farther from straight on axis.

It is a simulation that I can manipulate but it is very close to what you see in reality as well.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Nine pairs left.


----------



## snaimpally

tjswarbrick said:


> I think the question is: will they perform most linearly on-axis, a little off axis, or fully off axis. Has the frequency response graph at 0, 30 and 60 degrees been posted anywhere yet?


One thing I have learned is that every car is different. People told me to mount tweeters in the a-pillars instead of the sail panels but in my car, I found that the sails worked better. 

Experimentation, including trying unusual positioning, is worthwhile. I have watched my friend Glenn (GLN305) place new drivers in different positions and once he had narrowed it down to one area of the car, he would build an adjustable bracket so that he could listen to them on-axis, off-axis, etc.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Down to eight pairs at the group buy price.

The tweeters will be going up to $165 shipped when these eight pair are gone.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

tjswarbrick said:


> I think the question is: will they perform most linearly on-axis, a little off axis, or fully off axis. Has the frequency response graph at 0, 30 and 60 degrees been posted anywhere yet?


I was tired last night when I gave you a response.

The best answer is that within 20 degrees off of axis they are fairly linear out to about 12 khertz.

Farther off of center they start to dive.

Did you find the dispersion video explanation?


----------



## cajunner

I may be taking liberties with the intentions of some of the questions, some of the same questions I asked earlier and was seen as being demonstrably interrogative to the point of aggravation.

But, I think what people need/want to know is how do these tweeters compare with the dispersion profiles of tweeters they know, and if they differ in any appreciable way, how do they differ.

If XBL is doing something positive besides lowering the viable crossover point and creating better distortion profiles, it would not be as important in a purely analytic stance or in a display of graphs as it would in descriptive differences from other tweeters with more well known motor designs, but I would also counter with the observation that although we have "brand" names for low distortion motor topologies in mid woofer examples we don't necessarily have the extension to tweeter motors.

what does that mean...

well, how does the XBL motor design differ from a simple underhung motor, how does the implementation of these tweeters create a more believable stage, how do you go about qualifying the extra assembly steps in building the XBL as being worthwhile...

some of the answers are subjective, I believe and probably have more place in marketing than in a side-by-side assessment, but there are likely qualities that extended excursion and BL symmetry, qualities that have yet to be extolled in the process of creating a niche product that truly compares with those large firm's extensive R&D budgets, at a no-middleman pricing schedule.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, is that until the tweeter is finalized by screen profile and edge treatment, the reliance on on/off axis graphs of extension into +12Khz territory is subject to interpretation or conjecture, since those features of a cup and a bezel are not merely cosmetic, and much has been made of early reflections in the vehicle, causing response anomalies that need to be addressed on a higher precision scaling of performance indicators.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> But, I think what people need/want to know is how do these tweeters compare with the dispersion profiles of tweeters they know, and if they differ in any appreciable way, how do they differ.
> 
> If XBL is doing something positive besides lowering the viable crossover point and creating better distortion profiles, it would not be as important in a purely analytic stance or in a display of graphs as it would in descriptive differences from other tweeters with more well known motor designs, but I would also counter with the observation that although we have "brand" names for low distortion motor topologies in mid woofer examples we don't necessarily have the extension to tweeter motors.
> 
> what does that mean...
> 
> well, how does the XBL motor design differ from a simple underhung motor, how does the implementation of these tweeters create a more believable stage, how do you go about qualifying the extra assembly steps in building the XBL as being worthwhile...
> 
> some of the answers are subjective, I believe and probably have more place in marketing than in a side-by-side assessment, but there are likely qualities that extended excursion and BL symmetry, qualities that have yet to be extolled in the process of creating a niche product that truly compares with those large firm's extensive R&D budgets, at a no-middleman pricing schedule.
> 
> One thing I'm pretty sure of, is that until the tweeter is finalized by screen profile and edge treatment, the reliance on on/off axis graphs of extension into +12Khz territory is subject to interpretation or conjecture, since those features of a cup and a bezel are not merely cosmetic, and much has been made of early reflections in the vehicle, causing response anomalies that need to be addressed on a higher precision scaling of performance indicators.


What XBL can provide is a way to engineer a loudspeaker motor that allows a potential for lower distortion and a longer controlled stroke for a voice coil in that motor. It is not magic. It still must be engineered and balanced.

With this type of motor you can have the benefits of very low inductance as well. A very desirable trait in a tweeter. Low inductance means you will have less high end roll off versus a high inductance voice coil.

I keep saying can and potentially. For a very simple reason. This is a motor design that needs finesse, and extreme attention to detail. XBL motors are very easy to do wrong.

Other than the lower distortion and lower inductance, their biggest claim to fame is a flatter power curve. (BL curve) Or the area where the driver is really under control of the motor. Underhung motors have a thicker top plate than the height of the voice coil stack. But what they suffer from is a football shaped power curve. It peaks in the middle and then slopes downward rapidly. 

That is one of the biggest reasons why you can have less distortion with a well executed XBL motor. A much flatter power curve than other motor types.

Now as for roll off on the top end. I put together a folder of quite a few 25 mm and 19 mm tweeters. It's here:

Other Tweeter Measurements Photos by mwmkravchenko | Photobucket

High frequency roll off is a function of plain old physics. And you can't fight physics, it's been around for a very long time. It basically calls all the shots

Even the mounting cup and the grill have less impact on the tweeter than how close it will be to the front wind shield. A hard reflective surface will have more effect on the tweeter than will anything I can design into a 6mm wide trim ring and perforated metal grill. And the loading provided by your window and wind shield in a pillar mount will do more to contour the sound than I can in a small mounting cup.

In fact the mount itself has very little to do with shaping the frequency response. It is a good thing that almost all the mounting positions in a car will be off axis by a few degrees as this will help smooth out the response somewhat.

As for competition and other tweeters out there.

Seriously there are some awesomely good tweeters out there. I know mine measures up very well with the big boys. What I offer is world class QC, and a fair price.

If you think that is worth it then I hope you enjoy them as much as I do.


----------



## Ainuke

I'm in for 1 Pair. 
I tried sending you PM for payment/shipment details but don't know if it went through. 
Will also try sending email. 
I can be reached at (myDIYMAusername) at gmail. 

Looking forward to these!


----------



## fulletal7777

im planning on buying these, The Madisound Speaker Store
are these tweeters that your offering a huge sound difference than those that i linked? i dont know much about graphs and all that, hence why im asking lol im probly down tho


----------



## mwmkravchenko

fulletal7777 said:


> im planning on buying these, The Madisound Speaker Store
> are these tweeters that your offering a huge sound difference than those that i linked? i dont know much about graphs and all that, hence why im asking lol im probly down tho


They are pretty good tweeters. Seem to have some nice mounting options to.

They are a metal dome tweeter, which could possibly mean they may sound a little zinggy on the top end. I haven't listened to them in over twenty years so I really don't remember their sound.

So major differences are price. I don't know what shipping to you would cost from Madisound. The major differences are the dome material, and mine go down to 550 hertz and theirs poop out at 1850. Basically you can crossover mine safely where the LPG is just starting to be a safe crossover point.

Mine are pretty tough at 2400 hertz crossover point.

Mine are decently tough at 1800 hertz with a fourth order slope, and if you have steep crossover slopes you can cross the over s little lower. Which basically means you can use a 6.5 midbass with mine and a 5.25 with the LPG.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

As this thread is getting really long here is a link to the pics and videos.

KAXBLTWT TWEETER Photos by mwmkravchenko | Photobucket


----------



## fulletal7777

mwmkravchenko said:


> They are pretty good tweeters. Seem to have some nice mounting options to.
> 
> They are a metal dome tweeter, which could possibly mean they may sound a little zinggy on the top end. I haven't listened to them in over twenty years so I really don't remember their sound.
> 
> So major differences are price. I don't know what shipping to you would cost from Madisound. The major differences are the dome material, and mine go down to 550 hertz and theirs poop out at 1850. Basically you can crossover mine safely where the LPG is just starting to be a safe crossover point.
> 
> Mine are pretty tough at 2400 hertz crossover point.
> 
> Mine are decently tough at 1800 hertz with a fourth order slope, and if you have steep crossover slopes you can cross the over s little lower. Which basically means you can use a 6.5 midbass with mine and a 5.25 with the LPG.


So if I'm going three way active, would these be the better choice? Either way I'm most likely getting yours lol I'll have a 4 inch midrange and 6.5 midbass most likely


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Mine give you a wider choice of midwoofers. You can easily use a 6.5 midbass and crossover to my tweeter without the midbass beaming. And potentially a more laid back top end because my tweeter will not have any nasty resonances that a metal dome can have. Not saying for sure that the LPG has those problems because the last time I heard one I had hair!

So whether The KAXBLTWT is better depends on what is covering the music before it.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen 4 pcs
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya 4 pcs
Shiv Naimpally
Tom Swarbrick
Raoul Jacques
Fred Dorado
Chris Carrol
Hissan Haq
Brian Cameron
Christopher Smith
Barry Blitz
Jeremy Wright
Michael Burch
Erik Taylor
Budhram Ramlakhan
Andrew Hickman

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.

Two more paid for and Have addresses.

Please check this list. If you have paid and your not on it let me know.

I believe that two gents have ordered 4 pieces. This leaves me with 84 pieces paid for. And six pieces set aside for people waiting for funds.

That is a grand total of 90 pieces which should leave me with 10 pieces.

You can still purchase at the original price. North America is $125 Europe is $135.

When these are gone the price goes up to $165 North America And $185 Europe.

There are five pairs left that I set aside for this group buy.


----------



## SQLnovice

Thank you for the fast reply to my email.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I do what I can.

I'm not in the factory today, so i'm in front of my idiot box and I might as well be useful.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I keep getting questions as to when the tweeters will be ready.

They are all done and were at the beginning of this week.

The housings are up in the air.

The drawings are finalized. I made enough room on the back to use insulated stakeons or solder if you know what you are doing.

The dome is only 8mm deep in total so it is a nice very slight 3mm convex dome. Looks pretty classy.

When I get some real quotes I'm looking at a few days production at the worst. So there is a good chance my timeline for beginning of October can be kept for a ship to me date, and an end of October ship to you guys date.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Five pairs at the introductory price left.

But fear not.

There will be more!

But the price will be $165 a set shipped in NA.

And $185 a set to the EU.


----------



## snaimpally

fulletal7777 said:


> im planning on buying these, The Madisound Speaker Store
> are these tweeters that your offering a huge sound difference than those that i linked? i dont know much about graphs and all that, hence why im asking lol im probly down tho


First, I'm pretty sure there is a more appropriate part of the forum ("help me choose ..." for your question. This thread is a groupbuy for a particular tweeter. 

Second, that is a metal dome tweeter. Metal domes can sound harsh and be difficult to work with. I'd suggest a textile dome The Madisound Speaker Store


----------



## fulletal7777

snaimpally said:


> First, I'm pretty sure there is a more appropriate part of the forum ("help me choose ..." for your question. This thread is a groupbuy for a particular tweeter.
> 
> Second, that is a metal dome tweeter. Metal domes can sound harsh and be difficult to work with. I'd suggest a textile dome The Madisound Speaker Store


its 15 pages long. who cares at this point lol i dont think the seller of this product really cares anyways, as long as it pertains to me buying his product. which i am


----------



## altec

would this tweeter come with flush mount only?


----------



## ImK'ed

Im also curious, do we have an idea how its going to look the grille etc?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

altec said:


> would this tweeter come with flush mount only?


As this is a car audio thread.

Yes. Flush mount only. This is my first offering to the automotive market. And is the format most requested.

Is it going to available with a normal mount for home audio?

Of course!

The cup has a thread and a nut so you can mount it a number of different ways.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

ImK'ed said:


> Im also curious, do we have an idea how its going to look the grille etc?


Hexagon pattern.

I'll see if I can grab the drawings today and put up some pics for you guys.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen 4 pcs
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya 4 pcs
Shiv Naimpally
Tom Swarbrick
Raoul Jacques
Fred Dorado
Chris Carrol
Hissan Haq
Brian Cameron
Christopher Smith
Jeremy Wright
Michael Burch
Erik Taylor
Budhram Ramlakhan
Andrew Hickman

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.

Two more paid for and Have addresses.

Please check this list. If you have paid and your not on it let me know.

I believe that two gents have ordered 4 pieces. This leaves me with 84 pieces paid for. And six pieces set aside for people waiting for funds.

That is a grand total of 88 pieces which should leave me with 12 pieces.

You can still purchase at the original price. North America is $125 Europe is $135.

When these are gone the price goes up to $165 North America And $185 Europe.

There are six pairs left that I set aside for this group buy.

There are some that have not paid for their sets. Some are waiting on funds.

If you are not interested then please cancel your invoice and I can free up these drivers for others that are asking.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Here be the drawings of the tweeter housing. I was away from the office for a few days. I took a cold with back from Hong Kong.

Side view:



Side profile of the mesh dome:



And Plan view of the mesh dome:



I'm told that I may get samples sometime this week.

I'm holding my breathe.


----------



## ImK'ed

Ok kewl looks sweet! Cant wait!


----------



## rton20s

mwmkravchenko said:


> *Octagon* pattern.
> 
> I'll see if I can grab the drawings today and put up some pics for you guys.





mwmkravchenko said:


> Here be the drawings of the tweeter housing. I was away from the office for a few days. I took a cold with back from Hong Kong.
> 
> And Plan view of the mesh dome:


That is a hexagon.  

Nice progress though, I look forward to seeing the production housings and grills.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

You should get the chance to see them in person. Just need to sell my ms-8.


----------



## bdmach1

Sent a pm for a pair of these...



Bob


----------



## rton20s

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> You should get the chance to see them in person. Just need to sell my ms-8.


If I hadn't just wiped out my "play money" account, I would probably have a set on pre-order myself.  I need to find a buyer for my old wheels.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

If I can get the ms-8 sold, ill be able to pick up all the speakers for her car. The HAT tweets went already. The tweets will cover the sub.


----------



## req

very cool. im looking foraward to it for sure!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

rton20s said:


> That is a hexagon.
> 
> Nice progress though, I look forward to seeing the production housings and grills.


Thanks. Was a long day already when I posted that.

For the gentlemen that requested info on the tweeters you have some P.M.'s

And for all.

The allotment set aside for this group buy is quickly disappearing.

I have made arrangements to keep this in production and these tweeters will be available on a continuous basis.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

You guys do know that there is a purpose designed matching midwoofer to these little tweeters!

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ned-max-6-5-inch-xbl-midwoofer-group-buy.html


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen 4 pcs
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya 4 pcs
Shiv Naimpally
Tom Swarbrick
Raoul Jacques
Fred Dorado
Chris Carrol
Hissan Haq
Brian Cameron
Christopher Smith
Jeremy Wright
Michael Burch
Erik Taylor
Budhram Ramlakhan
Andrew Hickman
Chris Herman
Robert Ortman
Allan Nanan

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.

Two more paid for and Have addresses.

Please check this list. If you have paid and your not on it let me know.

I believe that two gents have ordered 4 pieces. This leaves me with 84 pieces paid for. And six pieces set aside for people waiting for funds.

That is a grand total of 94 pieces which should leave me with 6 pieces.

You can still purchase at the original price. North America is $125 Europe is $135.

When these are gone the price goes up to $165 North America And $185 Europe.

There are three pairs left that I set aside for this group buy.

There are some that have not paid for their sets. Some are waiting on funds.

If you are not interested then please cancel your invoice and I can free up these drivers for others that are asking.


----------



## Flinchy

mwmkravchenko said:


> You guys do know that there is a purpose designed matching midwoofer to these little tweeters!
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ned-max-6-5-inch-xbl-midwoofer-group-buy.html


if only they weren't the size of a small house


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Flinchy said:


> if only they weren't the size of a small house


Do I detect just a bit of sarcasm? :surprised:

Were not purpose designed for Automotive use.

And I think I'm going to take the thread down. I have enough drivers to cover the people that purchased.

And it is just not in good taste to be looking like a want to be competitor to Nick at S.I.

I didn't even clue in that he had not launched his driver until after I put up the thread.

There's more in the works.

Just have to ride the waves for a bit to pick the right time.


----------



## altec

pm sent with email ...awaiting the invoice if there are still tweeters available.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Down to three pairs at the group buy price.


----------



## altec

i did the buy...could anyone tell me how to hide it from my wife?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

altec said:


> i did the buy...could anyone tell me how to hide it from my wife?


They are small. So you have to be creative. 

Or be able to out run her. :surprised:

And be willing to never go back home.... :mean:

The sacrifices we have to make for good sound!


----------



## ImK'ed

Buy her something nice to cover up the blow


----------



## mwmkravchenko

ImK'ed said:


> Buy her something nice to cover up the blow


Sure be practical.

You can't tell I've been single for a long, long time can you?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

*I keep moving and updating this list.*

This is a list of the gentlemen who have provided addresses:

Either through Paypal or through email.

Mike Brack
Jack Hurdle
David Pui
Darin Etherington
Fang-Chu Chang
Richard Hall
Kevin Pickett
Tad Sumida
Jason Bowers
Andrew Ranger
Tim Morton
Justin Reed
Scott Crane
Eric Clark
Tam Nguyen
Mike Wolfe
Ernest Trosen 4 pcs
Eric Hause
Chris Collalto
Neal Kakimoto
Michael Collins
Doug McShane
David Cheong
Alexey Dillard
Brendan Trickett
Roger Blad
Henry Wijaya 4 pcs
Shiv Naimpally
Tom Swarbrick
Raoul Jacques
Fred Dorado
Chris Carrol
Hissan Haq
Brian Cameron
Christopher Smith
Jeremy Wright
Michael Burch
Erik Taylor
Budhram Ramlakhan
Andrew Hickman
Chris Herman
Robert Ortman
Allan Nanan
Aaron Kilbride
Logan Squires
Kris Martinez

Keep em coming Gents.

If you are not on this list you are not going to get your tweeters.

So please check this list.

Two more paid for and Have addresses.

Please check this list. If you have paid and your not on it let me know.

I believe that two gents have ordered 4 pieces. This leaves me with 100 pieces paid for. And six pieces set aside for people waiting for funds.

That is a grand total of 100 pieces which should leave me with 0 pieces set aside for the groupbuy.

You can still purchase at the original price. North America is $125 Europe is $135.

When these are gone the price goes up to $165 North America And $185 Europe.

The Groupbuy price is over.

There are some that have not paid for their sets. Some are waiting on funds.

If you are not interested then please cancel your invoice and I can free up these drivers for others that are asking.


----------



## etroze

Sir just checking in to see if you recieved payment.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

etroze said:


> Sir just checking in to see if you recieved payment.


Yes sir I have indeed.


----------



## fulletal7777

i want these tweeters NAO!!!!!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

fulletal7777 said:


> i want these tweeters NAO!!!!!


I'm in Guangzhou.

So come and getem!

I extended my visit to the 29th.

I was supposed to leave yesterday.

Have to push through the mounts and make sure they are getting made.

And I have some hiccups with my drivers. Plating on the magnets is not that good so, back to the magnet factory for more plating.

Don't want any rusty Neodymium. And it rusts really badly if the plating is not done properly.



All the tweeters are made and have been for two weeks.

The mounts are the only hold out. And I am pushing this as fast as I can.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So after long discussions on why where and when on the tweeter mount.

I get some info on this Coming Wednesday.

Will keep you guys posted.


----------



## etroze

mwmkravchenko said:


> Yes sir I have indeed.


Thanks Sir only thing I hate about paypal there isn't a confirmation box to hit.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

ONE PAIR LEFT FOR THIS GROUP BUY!

*After this pair the price goes up to:

$165 for North America

$185 for Most everywhere else I can send mail to.*


----------



## Kriszilla

And now that last pair is gone. My precious!!!!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Groupbuy Pricing is officially over.

There are drivers available and the price is now:

$165 A Pair Shipped in North America

And $185 a pair almost everywhere else I can send mail.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

For those that have drivers set aside and have not transferred funds please confirm you are still interested. And confirm a payment date.

If you are not planning on completing your purchase please let me know. I will be putting those set aside back up for sale for the groupbuy price.

I'll give until Monday evening for communication of your intentions.

No communication means no intention to purchase. Yes I am a hard ass. But there are many people interested in these tweeters and I promised to make 100 pcs available. And I do my best to keep my promises.

Please P.M. me.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

As soon as I have info on the mounts I will post pics and lead times for production.

I asked for four samples to play with.

We are using the resources of the build house I Consult for. They have a CNC vendor that regularly does stuff for them. So these guys are pretty good.

Messed up looking on my own before.

So I have been told Wednesday is the day for Info.

Keep watching.


----------



## legend94

Kriszilla said:


> And now that last pair is gone. My precious!!!!


Did you get them or me?


----------



## Kriszilla

Sorry, I got them.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is fun to watch.

Cuz I'm the only one who knows who got what where and when.


----------



## legend94

Kriszilla said:


> Sorry, I got them.


I think a bit of a joke is being played on us


----------



## Kriszilla

Likely so, but we got them and that's all that really matters!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Me! :surprised:

Play a joke on innocent dudes? 

Never!



Short answer is you guys have pair 50 and pair 51 almost at the same time.

I figured I could let one set pass the 100 pcs mark without breaking the bank.


----------



## Kriszilla

I'm totally not complaining over here. I'm just damn happy I picked up a pair!

I can't wait to see what the finished product will look like.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Kriszilla said:


> I'm totally not complaining over here. I'm just damn happy I picked up a pair!
> 
> I can't wait to see what the finished product will look like.


Good!

I was getting ready to call the Whambulance!

Or the perennial:

Suck it up buttercup!


----------



## snaimpally

altec said:


> i did the buy...could anyone tell me how to hide it from my wife?


Have them sent to your work address. Then smuggle them into the house when she is busy/out/asleep.


----------



## SQLnovice

I tell my wife it's car parts. Technically I'm not lying


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Oh the nefarious advice starts.

Man up and explain exactly what you are doing.

Some women are even practical and eventually enjoy the better sound.

I had one buddy whose wife told him he was wasting his money, it made no difference.

We changed out the good stuff for the bad stuff.

A week later she comes and says there is something wrong with the stereo. It doesn't sound right.

We turn it one and say it works fine!

She says "it doesn't sound like it used to." Bingo, and nailed. There was no more discussion of is it going to make a difference. Just how much of a difference!

Treat them like you want to be treated.

Hasn't failed me yet.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Now for business.

Two dudes have not paid for their tweeters. They have a few hours left before I make them available to the general public.

So 6:00 PM eastern time zone (Sptember the23rd) I will either be paid for them or they will have their invoices canceled.

There are a couple of other guys who have asked to have tweeters held for them.

Please confirm your intentions.

I promised 100 pieces at the group buy rate and I aim to keep my promises.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Tweeter mounting cup.

I am rattling chains over here.

I was told that I would have a quote by Wednesday. Asking about it today.


----------



## killbride

confirming you recieved my payment.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

killbride said:


> confirming you recieved my payment.


Yes.

Payment received.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Two people have failed to pay for their Invoices.

Not going to post any names or stupid stuff like that.

But as of now their invoices are canceled and there are two sets of tweeters available at the group buy price.

There are two sets of tweeters available at the original $125 groupbuy price.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Well looky looky here!













Just had a meeting with the vendor. And I have samples.

They will be matt black anodized.

Still hammering out the details on the grill.

Welcome to business in China.

At least I got the quote on Wednesday!


----------



## bdmach1

Those are pretty damn sexy!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

bdmach1 said:


> Those are pretty damn sexy!


It is the first car mount I have done.

But just because it's the first does not mean it has to be ugly!



They are getting sent out for anodizing today.

Should look even better.

Now to find me a vendor that will do the metal grill.


----------



## legend94

bdmach1 said:


> Those are pretty damn sexy!


Agreed. 

They are starting to look like tweeters that are 300 and up per pair.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

legend94 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> They are starting to look like tweeters that are 300 and up per pair.


I'm sticking to the stated price.

$165 a pair.

The AMT's will be higher. And those are being worked on right now.

:laugh:


----------



## teldzc1

Never mind read your post more closely. Black Anodized...excellent. Those look really sweet.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Kinda larger than I envisioned, but the waveguide shape should help things. Black Ano will be sweet. Looking forward to my delivery!


----------



## altec

did you test it with everything mounted? It looks like the angled part is really close to silk surround enough to maybe touch. Looking nice...now i don't mind what the wife does


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Just had a meeting with the vendor. And I have samples.
> 
> They will be matt black anodized.
> 
> Still hammering out the details on the grill.
> 
> Welcome to business in China.
> 
> At least I got the quote on Wednesday!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

altec said:


> did you test it with everything mounted? It looks like the angled part is really close to silk surround enough to maybe touch. Looking nice...now i don't mind what the wife does


I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

That was last week.

The ring better be close to touching the dome or your top end response will drop like a stone.



Notice a nice little radius.



Topside view.


----------



## miniSQ

Looks nice, did they show you any drawings with it painted black?

Have you given any thought to a KA logo?


----------



## Sencheezy

Wow those look really nice !!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> Looks nice, did they show you any drawings with it painted black?
> 
> Have you given any thought to a KA logo?


They called them black Ed out.

Logo may come.

I have one, it just costs more to do it.

If these gain enough traction I'll think about it.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Sencheezy said:


> Wow those look really nice !!


Thanks.


----------



## capea4

Pm sent on these


----------



## altec

will you be doing a shallow mount version of the 6.5 midwoofer? Man I need something to match these tweets. If I decide to do a center channel can I buy one tweeter later on?


----------



## inPicton

Well said!


----------



## etroze

Yep if these don't fit in the wifes car they for sure will be made into tower speakers to show off in my home theater.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

altec said:


> will you be doing a shallow mount version of the 6.5 midwoofer? Man I need something to match these tweets. If I decide to do a center channel can I buy one tweeter later on?



Yes there will be a shallow mount version of the 6.5, and later the 8.

Look for that around February. Try not to do a simultaneous launch of the same product for Nick sake.

As these will be car purpose designed it will simply be determined by how many of the normal ones i can sell in order to fund the slimmed down version.

But I will use the same motor, in the same basket just a little more creatively.

Single tweets.

You can buy two, three, one, or five. You cannot buy a half a tweeter.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

etroze said:


> Yep if these don't fit in the wifes car they for sure will be made into tower speakers to show off in my home theater.


Here's hoping!

If you did four of the 6.5's in an MTM wow. Now that would be a killer system.

Almost as much air movement as most 10 inch subwoofers.

Like I said privately to some guys.

If you want design assistance with my drivers, I will help on the condition that you post your builds.


----------



## etroze

If I get to build the I will absolutely post anything I build with these and any other pieces I buy from you.


----------



## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> You cannot buy a half a tweeter.


Well there goes my plans! Lol


----------



## SO20thCentury

The whole assembly is so pretty they should be mounted totally exposed! Especially the bare aluminum, just clear anodize!


----------



## neal00

So what is the O.D. of the mount? About 2.5"?


----------



## tjswarbrick

If he stayed true to his design goal, it'll be 2.2.

2"/50mm hole; 3mm flange; 56mm = 2.20".


----------



## SO20thCentury

Somewhere in this thread something was said about not using the housing but the ring outside of the surround was necessary for the higher freqs. Anybody catch that? Since my current tweets are only in a 1 3/8" hole on a curved panel I'd be interested in just sinking the tweeter in & surface attaching the ring...?


----------



## SO20thCentury

never mind-found it, 1st page duuhh. This only mentions with or without the faceplate, though. How about with faceplate but no housing? Please excuse a noob if it's a dumb question.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

So this is the actual submitted drawing. The mount is this size.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SO20thCentury said:


> never mind-found it, 1st page duuhh. This only mentions with or without the faceplate, though. How about with faceplate but no housing? Please excuse a noob if it's a dumb question.


Working on Faceplate.

Not cheap in small quantitties.

So I am weighing my options. 

Will probably be doing a groupbuy on a home audio forum.

That will fund the faceplate run I hope.


----------



## SO20thCentury

Sorry, I might have used the wrong term - I meant the ring on the face whose ID bevels down to meet the surround. That's necessary for high extension, right? I was wondering if the tweeter can be used with that but not the rest of the housing. One of your pictures shows just these two pieces together & makes me think I could maybe fit that much in. The whole housing, beautiful as it is, is just too large. If that using that configuration works, what is the depth & OD of the tweeter alone? Sorry for the excessive pestiness!:blush:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SO20thCentury said:


> Sorry, I might have used the wrong term - I meant the ring on the face whose ID bevels down to meet the surround. That's necessary for high extension, right? I was wondering if the tweeter can be used with that but not the rest of the housing. One of your pictures shows just these two pieces together & makes me think I could maybe fit that much in. The whole housing, beautiful as it is, is just too large. If that using that configuration works, what is the depth & OD of the tweeter alone? Sorry for the excessive pestiness!:blush:


You can buy the tweeter and take it apart and use what ever your evil little heart desires.

But me selling it in pieces no.

I have sold one set of tweeters only.
He will get those when I get back.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

A little bit of news.

The last two available sets of tweeters from this groupbuy are officially gone.

Back up to the normal pricing.


----------



## SO20thCentury

Hah! That don't scare me! So if one of these tweeters WERE to "come apart" would the inside part with the beveled ring on it still sound the same without the outside part? Or would it effectively "let the smoke out"? Hmm it probably wouldn't come apart without a fight though, would it?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Sounds like you might want an unmounted set. And from there you play.

Basically because if I glue them together, you will have quite a hard time taking them apart. And it will not come apart without some damage.


----------



## SO20thCentury

...hmmm....unmounted.... The housing doesn't affect the sound quality, right? Just the beveled ring does, right?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SO20thCentury said:


> ...hmmm....unmounted.... The housing doesn't affect the sound quality, right? Just the beveled ring does, right?


Lets put all the things that modify the response on the table.

This is in order of importance:

Location. Close to glass? Close to carpet?

Big change in the frequency response.

Angle to your ears.

Some change in the frequency response, but not that much.

Back cup.

Very little change.

Trim ring.

Does effect the top end above 14 kilohertz. Be seriously surprised if your hearing is that good. And not a heck of a lot of music up that high anyway.

Anything that is within six inches of the has some effect on the response.

And the surface the tweeter is mounted on has quite an effect in terms of:

In a pod, or sail panel?

Now bottom line.

How big are these changes?

Three db you notice.

Six is quite noticeable.

So mounting near reflective surface can boost some output by about 4 to 6 db. This works as a ratio of distance away gets you a boost at a grequency lower than the wavelength of the reflection?

English please?

Basically around 2400 hertz is a good example.

What is the wavelength of that frequency?

343/2400= 0.1425

343 is the distance sound travels in one second.

2400 is the frequency.

0.1425 is the length of that frequency in meters.

So 14.25cm or 5.6 inches. 5 9/16" for you Americans.

So like I said at the beginning. Anything within about 6 inches of the tweeter will have the most effect in this frequency range. As you go higher in frequency the wavelengths get much shorter.

4800 hertz is half as long. 9600 hertz is again half as long. Now we are talking under an inch and a half.

So the things that modify the tweeters response in the car is the car!

Mostly it is the glass.

So fool around with placement before you commit to a placement.

And you will be able to figure out where your new tweeters will sound cleanest and least colored.

:surprised:


----------



## SO20thCentury

Thank you for that 2x4 of enlightenment upside my head! Would you sell a pair unmounted? (Or is that asking for 2 halfs?)


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SO20thCentury said:


> Thank you for that 2x4 of enlightenment upside my head! Would you sell a pair unmounted? (Or is that asking for 2 halfs?)


It's not like I don't need a good smack once in a while either buddy!

Yes you can buy an unmounted set.

The groupbuy is over so the unmounted set is :

$120 shipped.

Literally the difference on the cost of the mounts.


----------



## SO20thCentury

Well, I"ll probably be pm-ing you soon if SI's mid will fit also. I followed your mid build with interest and was relieved to see it was too deep for my doors saving me from going active, but then you hadda go & mention SI's shallow. Thanks a lot! Time to start my "what crossover" thread...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok so here's a little heads up on two thread you may or may not know about:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...x-8-inch-xbl-woofer-groupbuy.html#post2171280

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ch-xbl-midwoofer-group-buy-5.html#post2171275

These are the dedicated threads to the woofer and midwoofer that are purpose designed to work with this tweeter.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Next question is an evil one;

Do you guys think there is enough interest in doing a groupbuy for a home audio version of this tweeter?

I have this car mount almost put to bed. The latest hiccup is the metal grill. But that is getting sorted out.

A logo may happen if I can make a deal with a company that does laser marking. It looks pretty cool on black.


----------



## edouble101

My vote is no logo.

Home audio use? Why not.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

edouble101 said:


> My vote is no logo.
> 
> Home audio use? Why not.


Need more votes.

As or home audio.

Audio is audio. And good audio is appreciated everywhere.

Doing this on another forum will require a minion.

Cuz on most forums you canna sell stuff. But you can point to stuff being sold if you are not the seller.


----------



## cajunner

so what you're saying is you'll give away a pair of your tweeters if someone hawks your goods on diyaudio and audiokarma and AVS?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cajunner said:


> so what you're saying is you'll give away a pair of your tweeters if someone hawks your goods on diyaudio and audiokarma and AVS?


While that is true.

It is also true that I have a minion up my sleeve already.

But always looking for more minions.

So you are still fishing for a set?


----------



## legend94

I tend to like no logo or a very laid back logo 

For my install it won't be seen so put hello kitty on mine!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

legend94 said:


> I tend to like no logo or a very laid back logo
> 
> For my install it won't be seen so put hello kitty on mine!


Yep.

Laid back is pretty much what I would do in the first place. 

K-Audio

On the inner trim ring.

That would be about it.

But for you a kitty?


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> While that is true.
> 
> It is also true that I have a minion up my sleeve already.
> 
> But always looking for more minions.
> 
> So you are still fishing for a set?


I'm interested in the process, as a bystander.

It would be nice to be a minion but I'm mostly only here, thus no presence on those other forums.

I'm not in need of speakers either, at the moment.

I have reached a point in this hobby where I feel I should use up the stocks of things I've collected over the years.

For instance, the Mpyre Audio XBL drivers that sit, unused on a shelf.

Which happen to be quite similar to anyone else's XBL product, it seems.

Credited with low inductance, wide bandwidth but not so great off-axis, I hope your DTTM modeling is able to deliver the nut that those Mpyre's can't...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> I hope your DTTM modeling is able to deliver the nut that those Mpyre's can't...


Would that be left nut?

Or right nut?


----------



## cajunner

mwmkravchenko said:


> Would that be left nut?
> 
> Or right nut?


just seems like every time an XBL driver is paraded out, people want to use them for 2 way duty.

The Mpyre is a neo mag XBL design, no compromise, yadda yadda, not shallow, good aero on the basket, long throw capable, basically a sweet driver on paper.

Designed as a mid-bass, built on a 7" frame, visibly larger than all 6.5"/6.75" production units but still able to fit in most 6" locations, it had everything going for it, but it was plagued by low sensitivity and crazy mounting depth. However, you could slip the motor past many magnet-size clearances.

Many people didn't want a mid bass that was rated for 150 watts, that you needed a 250 watt amp to drive it to loudness levels that you got with other drivers.

I give out this information freely, so take it for what it's worth. Grain of salt, is nice sometimes.


----------



## squiers007

mwmkravchenko said:


> Need more votes.
> 
> As or home audio.
> 
> Audio is audio. And good audio is appreciated everywhere.
> 
> Doing this on another forum will require a minion.
> 
> Cuz on most forums you canna sell stuff. But you can point to stuff being sold if you are not the seller.


I'm somewhat active in the DIY forums over at AVS if you need someone else to plug for you. Seems like alot of the guys over there are more into DIY speaker kits than designing there own from scratch though. Maybe consider developing a X-over and selling a 2-way kit with your 6.5"? Not sure if the 6.5 would work or not for a bookshelf/tower, just throwing some ideas your way.


----------



## legend94

squiers007 said:


> I'm somewhat active in the DIY forums over at AVS if you need someone else to plug for you. Seems like alot of the guys over there are more into DIY speaker kits than designing there own from scratch though. Maybe consider developing a X-over and selling a 2-way kit with your 6.5"? Not sure if the 6.5 would work or not for a bookshelf/tower, just throwing some ideas your way.


very good idea! i was thinking that for myself if i purchased them my biggest issue would be sourcing a decent crossover.


----------



## TallTexan

I can't make any comment one way or other on home use since I figured out sometime back that I spend more time listening to car audio (stuck in Houston traffic) than listening to home audio (other than TV/surround sound).

I think having a nice tasteful logo (K-Audio) is OK by me. What I feel is missing on some of these speakers is an identifying label somewhere on the back with the brand and model. I'm including, I believe, Nick's offerings at SI which I don't see labels on the back of his speakers. Perish the thought that I ever sell them (or my heirs try to when I'm gone), it would be nice to know what they are.

Even better idea would be in addition to the label is to have your build house print unique barcodes for each unit which would be subsequently scanned prior to FR type test, with the results accessible to the end user. This would also make it easier to find and sell matched pairs at a hopefully only slight premium. Of course, I'm guessing this would be a enhancement to the testing program to scan and store this. But heck, I'm a software developer who does barcode scanning type apps (for warehouse food distribution). So I'm always thinking about software enhancements when I see almost any app.

I think its been cool to see all the video and stills Mark has provided on the build process. Its like an extended version of "How It's Made". Also makes me appreciate the amount of hand work required to put these together. I'll have to try what your woofer assembler did mixing epoxy and folding up that paper into a dispenser. What a great idea.

Can't wait to get these tweets!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

squiers007 said:


> I'm somewhat active in the DIY forums over at AVS if you need someone else to plug for you. Seems like alot of the guys over there are more into DIY speaker kits than designing there own from scratch though. Maybe consider developing a X-over and selling a 2-way kit with your 6.5"? Not sure if the 6.5 would work or not for a bookshelf/tower, just throwing some ideas your way.


That is always a part of the plan man.

I'll be posting crossovers and box plans or suggested Parts Express boxes on my website.

If there is enough interest I can even do a batch of front baffles. But that would be a part of a kit group buy.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

TallTexan said:


> I can't make any comment one way or other on home use since I figured out sometime back that I spend more time listening to car audio (stuck in Houston traffic) than listening to home audio (other than TV/surround sound).
> 
> I think having a nice tasteful logo (K-Audio) is OK by me. What I feel is missing on some of these speakers is an identifying label somewhere on the back with the brand and model. I'm including, I believe, Nick's offerings at SI which I don't see labels on the back of his speakers. Perish the thought that I ever sell them (or my heirs try to when I'm gone), it would be nice to know what they are.
> 
> Even better idea would be in addition to the label is to have your build house print unique barcodes for each unit which would be subsequently scanned prior to FR type test, with the results accessible to the end user. This would also make it easier to find and sell matched pairs at a hopefully only slight premium. Of course, I'm guessing this would be a enhancement to the testing program to scan and store this. But heck, I'm a software developer who does barcode scanning type apps (for warehouse food distribution). So I'm always thinking about software enhancements when I see almost any app.
> 
> I think its been cool to see all the video and stills Mark has provided on the build process. Its like an extended version of "How It's Made". Also makes me appreciate the amount of hand work required to put these together. I'll have to try what your woofer assembler did mixing epoxy and folding up that paper into a dispenser. What a great idea.
> 
> Can't wait to get these tweets!



I have good news. Every tweeter is matched already.

I do it during the QC testing. They meet a plus or minus 1.5 window or not.

So every driver I provide is already a matched pair. Any driver will match the other driver. It the entire reason why I use the build house that I do in the first place.

Logo is looking Like a K-Audio on the interior trim ring.

And as for a code on the back.

If I can find a source for a cheap enough printer I am considering putting a QR code on the back of every driver with their name and model number.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

So now that the group buy price is over, can we order at full price right now, or do we need to wait until this batch ships?


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I have good news. Every tweeter is matched already.
> 
> I do it during the QC testing. They meet a plus or minus 1.5 window or not.
> 
> So every driver I provide is already a matched pair. Any driver will match the other driver. It the entire reason why I use the build house that I do in the first place.
> 
> Logo is looking Like a K-Audio on the interior trim ring.
> 
> And as for a code on the back.
> 
> If I can find a source for a cheap enough printer I am considering putting a QR code on the back of every driver with their name and model number.


Not sure what kind of printing you need done, but i run a digital print and design shop, and can print just about anything you might need.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> So now that the group buy price is over, can we order at full price right now, or do we need to wait until this batch ships?


You can P.M. me and yes the tweeters are available at regular price now.

The only thing holding me up is the delivery of the mounts. And they are prototyped.

There is a holiday in China right now foe a week. Their equivalent of July 4th for you guys.

So when the merriment is over I hope to have some answers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> Not sure what kind of printing you need done, but i run a digital print and design shop, and can print just about anything you might need.


I'll send you a message.

Never hurts to ask!


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Awesome, thanks. I'll send a pm later this week.


----------



## Weightless

Will the k-audio be visible from the front? If so, would it be possible to have no badging in it? Maybe put one aside when they are getting badged? ☺


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Weightless said:


> Will the k-audio be visible from the front? If so, would it be possible to have no badging in it? Maybe put one aside when they are getting badged? ☺



It's basically an all or nothing scenario.

It gets pretty complicated doing work with and without branding.


----------



## Weightless

Well, if you accidentally knock an untouched housing off the table, I wont tell anyone.


----------



## miniSQ

When will these be shipping to the customer?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> When will these be shipping to the customer?


As of today I am still sticking to the end of October. I will have more information after the Chinese national holiday. About a week.

All the driver's have been done for quite a while. I have approval for the mounting cups from my vendor.

So when the parts are ready I will keep you guys posted.

I got back from China on Monday. So just a little jet lagged. I'm on the left coast right now. And I'll be driving to Denver next week. Something called the RMAF.


----------



## capea4

mwmkravchenko said:


> You can P.M. me and yes the tweeters are available at regular price now.
> 
> The only thing holding me up is the delivery of the mounts. And they are prototyped.
> 
> There is a holiday in China right now foe a week. Their equivalent of July 1st for you guys.
> 
> So when the merriment is over I hope to have some answers.


Sooo, what's July 1st?
Lol


----------



## diy.phil

maybe they party all week from july 1 to july 7


----------



## Canada1869

capea4 said:


> Sooo, what's July 1st?
> Lol


July 1st is Canada day!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

capea4 said:


> Sooo, what's July 1st?
> Lol


July 4th for the Americanos!

I did mention I am just a little jet lagged right?

:surprised:


----------



## squiers007

mwmkravchenko said:


> July 5th for the Americanos!
> 
> I did mention I am just a little jet lagged right?
> 
> :surprised:


Haha, still wrong. I think your attempting to say July 4th! 

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Can I go home now?


----------



## rton20s

mwmkravchenko said:


> Can I go home now?


Nope. Back to China. You have more driver production to oversee.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

rton20s said:


> Nope. Back to China. You have more driver production to oversee.


Awe man!

It'll be at least a couple of months before I get back there.

It's paid by the vendor, or by me.

Last time the vendor paid my expenses.


----------



## cksigmapi

Not sure if I missed it somewhere but, roughly what is the timeline for delivery of the GB batch? I'm hoping to install these before snowfall in mid-michigan :-D


----------



## mwmkravchenko

cksigmapi said:


> Not sure if I missed it somewhere but, roughly what is the timeline for delivery of the GB batch? I'm hoping to install these before snowfall in mid-michigan :-D


End of October as of right now. 

I will keep everyone as up to date as I can. The tweeters have been done for three weeks. And the mounts have been prototyped and approved by me. Waiting for the October the 1st Chinese hollerday to be over and they get back to work. They take a week off.

When they are back to work I will be looking for updates daily. And I will post the information I get.


----------



## etroze

So the suspense is killing me too lol.......can't wait to have these in hand.


----------



## squiers007

Any updates on how the mounts are coming along?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

China is back to work between the 7th and 8th. And I am driving from Vancouver to Denver Colorado. So when I am in a place with regular net connection I'll see what I can find out. Just hitting a bed right now. 12:50 am.


----------



## miniSQ

Updates seems to have fallen off the radar, and it looks like these are not going to arrive before the snow here in Vermont, so if anyone is interested in my set please PM me, as I think i am going to move on to a different tweeter.

I will sell it for the the same money i paid $125, if mark would just change the shipping address once i receive payment.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Just getting back into Canada. Was a week out at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver Colorado.

No real net connection, and no time as I was helping an exhibitor or driving for the entire time. When China opens up I will rattle some chains and get some answers.


----------



## teldzc1

I wouldn't be too fussed with the interwebs if I was at RMAF either. Bet there was some cool stuff.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

teldzc1 said:


> I wouldn't be too fussed with the interwebs if I was at RMAF either. Bet there was some cool stuff.


Some. I was working the whole time. So did not get to listen to very much. China is sleeping now. But I have put in requests for what the heck is going on!

Welcome to manufacturing from 10, 000 miles away. It is not fast even when you have a Cantonese speaking helper over there. It just happens when it happens.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Sample has returned a little darker this time!















The sample has been Ok'd. And we are waiting on the perforated metal guys to give me a quote.

Fun and games in the fast lane.

Yes I am pushing this as quickly as I can. I have a secretary over there giving the vendors a hard time.


----------



## tjswarbrick

I like that!
Stealth, unlike the polished ones.
They really don't need a logo, though I'm sure it won't hurt.
Stoked for delivery.


----------



## diy.phil

^^ that's so pretty!!! (good stuff)


----------



## balane

That is a great looking kit! Very nicely done.


----------



## cajunner

I gotta admit, the aesthetics on this one are a couple of ticks better than what I thought you'd ended up with...

and that issue of production, seems like if you had a couple of envelopes of "cheer up" money to spread around, would facilitate the goings on over there.


but it's hurry up and wait for the finish goods.


----------



## douggiestyle

I was close to giving up my spot as I the delivery date is a bit later than I expected, but the tweeters look great. I think I'll keep my spot


----------



## teldzc1

That looks really sweet!


----------



## squiers007

Nice, really stoked I decided to get these! Can't wait to install them. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Icefsh

Looks great! Can't wait to start my build with them!


----------



## etroze

Oh these are going to look great in my sails for my pickup.


----------



## edouble101

I am VERY happy to see these black versus shiny metal!


----------



## 1fishman

What holds the beveled/angled ring, and tweeter, in the cup? interference fit?

They sure do look great.


----------



## SQLnovice

Beautiful, glad i got a pair.


----------



## miniSQ

Those look perfect!!! Feeling bad that i gave up my slot


----------



## mwmkravchenko

1fishman said:


> What holds the beveled/angled ring, and tweeter, in the cup? interference fit?
> 
> They sure do look great.


Good old adhesive.

I'll be using a toughened CA adhesive for assembly. Clear in color.

Thanks for the comments. Looking good is almost as important as sounding great.

As far as pushing the time slot, I really wish I had a carrot that would work. They are all back to work finally. So again it's a hurry up and wait situation.

I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> Those look perfect!!! Feeling bad that i gave up my slot


:bigcry:

:surprised:

Maybe a little teasing?


----------



## rton20s

The pre-production housing sample looks great! I look forward to seeing them with the grill.


----------



## HiloDB1

miniSQ said:


> Those look perfect!!! Feeling bad that i gave up my slot


Guessing you sold your slot already?


----------



## miniSQ

HiloDB1 said:


> Guessing you sold your slot already?


yes, and i ordered a Phass tweeter that should be here in a day or two.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

They look pretty good to!


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> They look pretty good to!


a tad more expensive, but they will fit the location well, and match my mids. Plus i got a really good deal from Jerry on a used pair.


----------



## Ainuke

mwmkravchenko said:


> So this is the actual submitted drawing. The mount is this size.


So, just to clarify, these are the final dimensions of the mounts?

-Erik


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ainuke said:


> So, just to clarify, these are the final dimensions of the mounts?
> 
> -Erik


Yes sir.

They are approved for production.

Chasing down a vendor for the perforated grill.


----------



## SQLnovice

Thanks, i'll start working on my sail pods.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Checking everyday for whats happening overseas. When I have news I will post it.


----------



## req

cant wait to finish my sail panels!

keep us informed


----------



## capea4

I know your more of a speaker guy than a car audio guy, but..

I am planning to use a phoenix gold ms 2125 on these tweeters. It's 130-180 watts per channel depending on voltage, but it's also a dual mono, which is why I am leaning towards this. Is it just too damn much? I also have a mps 2240 at 40 watts by two but it's not a dual mono. my mids will be nicks new shallow 6 with a single amp each, so I was leaning towards the "big amp" for that separation factor, but don't want to melt these things out either.


----------



## tjswarbrick

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed.

About 40 watts is all they'll need, but with a proper crossover and slope 150W shouldn't break 'em. Plus, they're 8-Ohm, so if that's the 4-Ohm rating expect it to fall by nearly half. Actually, it looks like that might be the 2-Ohm rating. You may want to go bigger!
But I'm not the designer...

Awesome amp, by the way.
I've always liked that one.


----------



## edouble101

capea4 said:


> I know your more of a speaker guy than a car audio guy, but..
> 
> I am planning to use a phoenix gold ms 2125 on these tweeters. It's 130-180 watts per channel depending on voltage, but it's also a dual mono, which is why I am leaning towards this. Is it just too damn much? I also have a mps 2240 at 40 watts by two but it's not a dual mono. my mids will be nicks new shallow 6 with a single amp each, so I was leaning towards the "big amp" for that separation factor, but don't want to melt these things out either.


You can use any amp you want. Adjust the gains accordingly to prevent tweeter failure.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Man. I don't even have to repeat myself!

Spot on gentlemen.

A tip of the hat to you!


----------



## tjswarbrick

Did my research before sending my $$$!


----------



## capea4

I guess my question is deeper than this.
It's not the specs, it's the idea. Think it's better to run a big ass amp because it's dual mono, or an adequate amp. I generally think 40 watts is plenty for a tweeter, but all the "big guys" here run tons of power.
It's not s specs question, it's an opinion I am looking for.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

It's on paper, better to run the dual mono. Whether you can hear the difference or not from one being dual mono? Likely not.


----------



## sirbOOm

You can put like a 20uf cap in the + line to absorb spikes and stuff... that helps protect the tweeter. If it's a 4-ohm tweeter, that'll cut out below 2,000 Hz or so but, I'm told by a seasoned home audio source after I mentioned my car system, will help smooth the power going to the tweeter. Any "power loss" caused by this capacitor would be negligible... its a freakin' tweeter. It's really spikes or "unexpected stuff" that'd burn up the tweeter if you're giving it "more than rated power" or using an amplifier capable of that anyway (for head room). Stuff happens...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

As a simple statement:

More power is less lethal to drivers than to little power.

The reasoning is simple.

A clipping amplifier will take out any driver.

The slipping peaks are DC. No voice coil likes likes to see DC current. They heat up like stove elements.

A large amplifier will be less able to clip. And for a tweeter A hundred watts is perfectly safe. In fact one of the active designs I have done has a 800 watt amp channel behind a single tweeter.

As was said. It's a tweeter!

They do very little other than add a little sparkle in a properly setup system. But without that sparkle the music just just doesn't sound right.

A protection cap is a good idea.

There are many websites that calculate for you the proper value to use.


----------



## legend94

I always use a capacitor and have used the solen brand with great results.


----------



## tjswarbrick

capea4 said:


> I guess my question is deeper than this.
> It's not the specs, it's the idea. Think it's better to run a big ass amp because it's dual mono, or an adequate amp. I generally think 40 watts is plenty for a tweeter, but all the "big guys" here run tons of power.
> It's not s specs question, it's an opinion I am looking for.


If power to either driver will not be compromised, I'd rather put the dual-mono on the mids where, IMO, it'll have the chance to have more of an effect.

It's been a while - MS is 2x125 @ 4 Ohms giving approx. 2x65ish @ 8 Ohms, and 1 Ohm stable?
MPS is 2x24 @ 4 Ohms but 1/2 ohm stable? It's only give you ~ 15WPC into an 8Ohm tweeter load, but is supposed to do about 75WPC into 1 Ohm, which puts it around 40 WPC into 2 Ohm.
(The SI TM65's have dual 4Ohm VC's, so you'll either have an 8 Ohm or 2 Ohm load on each amp channel with those guys.)

Not sure the "cheater" amps are the best way to go - they give massive power when bridged into reactive loads, but kinda loaf along driving a single speaker with a single channel. IMO the 2125 would be great on either set of speakers, but unless I'm looking at the wrong amp, the MPS may be more useful elsewhere.
Unless you get a 2nd one and bridge 'em into the mids.


----------



## capea4

tjswarbrick said:


> If power to either driver will not be compromised, I'd rather put the dual-mono on the mids where, IMO, it'll have the chance to have more of an effect.
> 
> It's been a while - MS is 2x125 @ 4 Ohms giving approx. 2x65ish @ 8 Ohms, and 1 Ohm stable?
> MPS is 2x24 @ 4 Ohms but 1/2 ohm stable? It's only give you ~ 15WPC into an 8Ohm tweeter load, but is supposed to do about 75WPC into 1 Ohm, which puts it around 40 WPC into 2 Ohm.
> (The SI TM65's have dual 4Ohm VC's, so you'll either have an 8 Ohm or 2 Ohm load on each amp channel with those guys.)
> 
> Not sure the "cheater" amps are the best way to go - they give massive power when bridged into reactive loads, but kinda loaf along driving a single speaker with a single channel. IMO the 2125 would be great on either set of speakers, but unless I'm looking at the wrong amp, the MPS may be more useful elsewhere.
> Unless you get a 2nd one and bridge 'em into the mids.


And I do have two amps for the mids. I have an ms 275 to bridge to each mid, if I use the 2125 on the tweets then that leaves the 2240 for rear doors, kids speakers so to speak
I think the layout. Will be a 275 for each mb, the 2125 on the tweets and an audison voce uno for the sub. Leaves the 2240 for rears


----------



## tjswarbrick

capea4 said:


> And I do have two amps for the mids. I have an ms 275 to bridge to each mid, if I use the 2125 on the tweets then that leaves the 2240 for rear doors, kids speakers so to speak
> I think the layout. Will be a 275 for each mb, the 2125 on the tweets and an audison voce uno for the sub. Leaves the 2240 for rears


THAT sounds SWEET!

Plenty of power - and since each mid is getting, essentially, a monobloc - dual-mono on the tweets should be great.
Envious!


----------



## capea4

mwmkravchenko said:


> As a simple statement:
> 
> More power is less lethal to drivers than to little power.
> 
> The reasoning is simple.
> 
> A clipping amplifier will take out any driver.
> 
> The slipping peaks are DC. No voice coil likes likes to see DC current. They heat up like stove elements.
> 
> A large amplifier will be less able to clip. And for a tweeter A hundred watts is perfectly safe. In fact one of the active designs I have done has a 800 watt amp channel behind a single tweeter.
> As was said. It's a tweeter!
> 
> They do very little other than add a little sparkle in a properly setup system. But without that sparkle the music just just doesn't sound right.
> 
> A protection cap is a good idea.
> 
> There are many websites that calculate for you the proper value to use.


Awesome!
Thanks for the time, I look forward to hearing these.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yep. No power shortage there!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

OK Update time.

I approved a quote for the tooling on the perforated metal dome.

There is an end in sight!

I'm getting a three week time frame.


----------



## SO20thCentury

WooHoo! Will you get us a picture soon?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SO20thCentury said:


> WooHoo! Will you get us a picture soon?


When I gets, you gets.

Pushing for High Quality in China means I have to be patient. 

Pretty much the same thing over here.

The really good companies are always the busiest.


----------



## seafish

Sorry, don't want to read all 20 pages-- how to order these??


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Send me an email with your Paypal linked email address and I send you an invoice for $165.

Other than that, it's only twenty pages. 

Some of them are even interesting!


----------



## legend94

seafish said:


> Sorry, don't want to read all 20 pages-- how to order these??


Pm the thread starter. I believe the group buy is over but regular price is not bad. Maybe someone will let you buy their spot in the group buy.


----------



## seafish

legend94 said:


> Pm the thread starter. I believe the group buy is over but regular price is not bad. Maybe someone will let you buy their spot in the group buy.


Thanks, will do.


----------



## killbride

any updates on the grilles? just finished my pods for these! very ready to install!


----------



## bdmach1

I've got new A-Pillars coming so we can start getting themready for these bad boys..


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Just back after a day of flying.

First time to sleep in my own bed in 4 and a half months.

As for what and when on the tweeters mounts and grills.

I order and I wait.

As much as I would like to be able to give awesome news, I would rather not lie to you guys. All we can do is wait. 

They are ordered.

When I do this type of work in China the usual turn around time is a month.


----------



## req

i was hoping for the end of october. november it is.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

req said:


> i was hoping for the end of october. november it is.


Oh don't I wish.

This whole project got off to a whiz bang start.

I have dealt with quite a few over the past years.

They all have plans submitted, and then a months lead time.

This tweeter section of my work stalled when the metal fabrication was over 60 days behind.

I was able to get that sorted out by simply waiting for the work action of the factory employees to run it's natural course.

It's not the same factory as the assembler.

When I started this group buy I had assurances that my due date could be met.

I didn't grab a date out of the air.



And this is how it usually goes.

I wait until I get the product.

Sucks. But I do end up getting the quality level I ask for and that is very important to me and my clients.


----------



## teldzc1

You know what's cool. Being involved with the production process from start to finish. Although we're just on the sidelines watching you do the hard work, it's not often consumers have the ability to be so close to the planning and production of the end product. Maybe because I don't need them right away or maybe because you really care about this whole thing and provide regular updates, but I'm cool with the wait. I think we all have questions about China production. It seems like any type of manufacturing or projects, there are good and bad companies to work with. Sometimes the good quality means bad timeline. I'm willing to make that tradeoff.


----------



## etroze

Honestly I don't care how long it takes as long as its up to the standards you have shown us through the entire process.


----------



## bdmach1

teldzc1 said:


> You know what's cool. Being involved with the production process from start to finish. Although we're just on the sidelines watching you do the hard work, it's not often consumers have the ability to be so close to the planning and production of the end product. Maybe because I don't need them right away or maybe because you really care about this whole thing and provide regular updates, but I'm cool with the wait. I think we all have questions about China production. It seems like any type of manufacturing or projects, there are good and bad companies to work with. Sometimes the good quality means bad timeline. I'm willing to make that tradeoff.


^^^^^Exactly! I don't mind the wait, I'm sure it will be well worth it. My set of A-Pillars that we're gonna modify to fit these just hit the door a few minutes ago...


----------



## req

oh yea i totally agree with both of you. i was just hoping theyd be ready for the north carolina G2G thats all


----------



## Guest

Thought I would post this....

I'll be going in a different direction in regards to tweeters... if someone would like to buy my "spot" or tweeter set... they are welcome to...


----------



## foreman

And not for nothing, Nick seems to have issues too and everyone buys his products. And for good reason. Sometimes getting the better product takes time. Sucks but i'd rather buy once.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

What I can tell you guys is that I tested each driver personally. They all meet spec within the tolerance I showed.

As soon as I have news I put it up.

It's driving me nuts as well.

There are more things waiting for other clients at the same time.


----------



## SQLnovice

I for one don't mind the wait. I'm just glad you are offering this product for me to buy. Thank you Sir.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I have recently answered a private message.



xxx_xxxx said:


> how are the tweeters coming?
> 
> thanks



The tweeters are in the process of getting done.

I make the order to my supplier. They make the order to their supplier.
Never have I seen anything come in on time. And that is the sad and simple truth.

The tweeters themselves are are an example. They were two months past the due date.

I have nothing I can do over here to speed things up.

The one thing I do have is a good working relationship with my vendor. They will do what has to be done over there to get the product completed.

Every project I work on is the same thing. And there is very little I can do from here to speed things up.


I'll add this little bit:


I am in contact with my vendor the speaker factory every two or three days. And they tell me they are pushing things over there.

There is nobody to yell at, nobody to coerce. You make your order and wait.

And as sad as this is it is the simple facts. 

They will get done, and usually within 6 to 8 weeks from the order date you get an email saying they are ready.


----------



## HiloDB1

I think people just want updates. Which you have done very well keeping people in the loop. Right now its just a sit and wait situation as production is pretty much complete.

BTW: If someone who was in on the group buy wants to back out PM me Im interested in another pair for the group buy price.


----------



## SQLnovice

HiloDB1 said:


> I think people just want updates. Which you have done very well keeping people in the loop. Right now its just a sit and wait situation as production is pretty much complete.
> 
> BTW: If someone who was in on the group buy wants to back out PM me Im interested in another pair for the group buy price.


Pm sq_tsx, (few posts up) I think he is selling his.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I have already transferred one order. It's a simple process. The one who wants them pays the Paypal invoice, and the one who sold them gets a refund.

It makes my processing the shipment much easier.

And I wish I had thought about this, but it was the last two gents who came up with the idea.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I have already transferred one order. It's a simple process. The one who wants them pays the Paypal invoice, and the one who sold them gets a refund.
> 
> It makes my processing the shipment much easier.
> 
> And I wish I had thought about this, but it was the last two gents who came up with the idea.


you said they would be in peoples hands in august...i dont think you said what year?


----------



## etroze

Still want to make a set of towers out of your products and I don't care how long it takes they still look amazing with some damn good QC.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Thanks for the kind words and the amazing loop hole!

Talked with the factory last night briefly.

They got nothing either.

Hurry up and wait.


----------



## Bruneti

mwmkravchenko said:


> I have already transferred one order. It's a simple process. The one who wants them pays the Paypal invoice, and the one who sold them gets a refund.
> 
> It makes my processing the shipment much easier.
> 
> And I wish I had thought about this, but it was the last two gents who came up with the idea.


I'm glad you approved of the idea. It was easy for us too.


----------



## jcole1983

Please PM me as well if anyone is backing out at the initial price. Doubt it will happen though.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I will check in again tonight.


----------



## shillermanlite

mwmkravchenko said:


> I will check in again tonight.


Any news from the East?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yeah there is news but not what I want to hear.

The owner of the factory I deal with is away on business.

I am pushing as much as I can without becoming a hemorrhoid.

I hope!


----------



## SQLnovice

I broke off the positive connection to one of my tweeter that is currently installed and it cannot be fixed. I now wish I had these to replace them, but that's my fault Mark. They get here when they get here and thanks again for all the stress/work/drinking? etc you are putting in to get me a quality product.


----------



## shillermanlite

mwmkravchenko said:


> Yeah there is news but not what I want to hear.
> 
> The owner of the factory I deal with is away on business.
> 
> I am pushing as much as I can without becoming a hemorrhoid.
> 
> I hope!


I appreciate the honesty and this is the reason why I placed an order for these. Keep up the good work!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Before I started this group buy I knew what can and does happen.

It is stressful on my end.

But keeping everything honest and transparent is a tried and true way of working through all the fun and games.

Dealing with most companies in China is the polar opposite. I never know what is really going on.


----------



## fulletal7777

any guess eta?


----------



## zinophile

I would think in the next month or so, based on what I have read over the last few weeks, but I'll let Mark chime in when he can.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yes My guess.

And it is a guess is sometime next month.

It's been long enough that they should have everything in line o pop them off.

I will rattle the chains this week again.


----------



## req

yeah i think i might have done-in one of my tweeters last week. luckily my midranges have OK upper end extension that i can live with for now. depending on the weather i might try some other tweeters ive got laying around - but im even more excited about these now haha.

keep on truckin mark


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> keep on truckin mark


Hey , this is par for the course. It's stressful. But happens every stinking time!


----------



## SO20thCentury

No hurry! TM65s aint showing up til at least January! (runs for cover)


----------



## mwmkravchenko

It is the way things work. I have a few OEM's that want to see these drivers. And I can't send anything out until I have them. Just simply painful.

The delay is causing me problems to believe me!

It's all fun and games. I have never been let down. And my build house is a great place to deal with. So I practice this wonderful thing called patience.


----------



## xxx_busa

Mark K,

The cup, base & flange are nice, what's holding the driver in the cup and securing the driver to the cup? 

So at this point all the metal work completed for the holders ?

are we only waiting on the screens ?

Thanks Mark M




mwmkravchenko said:


> Sample has returned a little darker this time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sample has been Ok'd. And we are waiting on the perforated metal guys to give me a quote.
> 
> Fun and games in the fast lane.
> 
> Yes I am pushing this as quickly as I can. I have a secretary over there giving the vendors a hard time.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Glue.

In all cases the parts are setup and kept in place with adhesive.

I am trying to get an update this week.

The simple fact is a hundred piece run is not at the top of the priority list.

A rattling of the chains is what I will try to do.


----------



## SQLnovice

Thanks Mark. Can't say that enough.


----------



## Ainuke

Just got a care package from Mark with the two 2" widebanders I had ordered from him. They look nice, and I'll give an impression on sound after I realize the sail pods brewing in my head. 

Just have to figure out how to make .4L pods look unobtrusive.


I wanted everyone to rest assured that Mark was legit...


----------



## teldzc1

Wait what!?!?! 2" Widebanders? I need more info on these ASAP.


----------



## Ainuke

teldzc1 said:


> Wait what!?!?! 2" Widebanders? I need more info on these ASAP.


PM Mark. 

I don't know how many of them he has/had on hand. My impression is that they're from a production run a while back. 

-Erik


----------



## mwmkravchenko

He has two more.

Not XBL but they sound so good that if it ain't broke.......


----------



## legend94

If anyone wants my spot for the group buy price pm me.


----------



## lizardking

Has anyone tested samples?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

There are a few gents who have some raw drivers.

Maybe they could post something.

I have one last set of raw drivers that will be shipped out next week to a gent who purchased them.

You guys have a great holiday.

Our Thanksgiving Holiday is long past.


----------



## fulletal7777

China sucks lol


----------



## etroze

Pretty much but it at least lets me save some pennies for another 4 channel amp.


----------



## xxx_busa

I'm guessing here, since this is the last piece of the puzzle, this must be done and in transit already. what day do these start showing at our doors.....



mwmkravchenko said:


> OK Update time.
> 
> I approved a quote for the tooling on the perforated metal dome.
> 
> There is an end in sight!
> 
> I'm getting a three week time frame.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

What day.

I've hit the fan a few times.

At this point when I see a video of a bunch of aluminum pieces and grills I will get excited.

I'll set a ship date of January 15th 2015.

It's realistic as far as shipping and expectations at this time of the year.

I'm pushing this as far and a hard as a little job can be pushed.

And to be crystal clear.

I have a whole bunch of prototypes that are held up as well. This is hurting me enormously.

And in all the years I have been working with this company, nothing has ever come in on time. Now I'm depending on two other companies to work through tiny high quality production runs.

The secondary companies are the ones that are causing me the grief.


----------



## req

thank you for the update sir! any pictures of the raw drivers?


----------



## xxx_busa

I want out !

Sell Me ASAP


----------



## mwmkravchenko

xxx_busa said:


> I want out !
> 
> Sell Me ASAP


Put yours up for sale. They have transferred in hours every time.


----------



## SQLnovice

xxx_busa said:


> I want out !
> 
> Sell Me ASAP


Take a look at post #556 and contact him. He might still be interested.


----------



## mwmkravchenko




----------



## fulletal7777

I call the one on the left, ITS MINE!


----------



## capea4

I don't want the grill, can I have mine without it. I like the dome in the black waveguide/mount.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Remind me when I give a huge sigh of relief that they are shipping. I'll set up one set without the grill.


----------



## teldzc1

God they looks so sweet. I can't wait till they ship.


----------



## req

very cool!

so who gets to keep the set that are machined out of aluminnum???


----------



## bamburuncing

interesting ... how i can buy it ?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

req said:


> very cool!
> 
> so who gets to keep the set that are machined out of aluminnum???


Who do you think?

Silly question....

I did a little look at the calendar. I started this is June. The factory delayed until September for actual build slot for the tweeters.

I approved the aluminum versions of the mounts on October 1st. So now that it is December I expect just like the build slot to be three months behind. There is still hope. 

As soon as I get a heads up that they are ready I will ship them to me via air freight. You guys deserve that at the very least.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

bamburuncing said:


> interesting ... how i can buy it ?


Simple email me or P.M. me and I'll send you an invoice.


----------



## strakele

Sorry for laziness since the answer is probably in here somewhere but is the housing easy to disassemble? And what are the dimensions of the raw driver?


----------



## miniSQ

strakele said:


> Sorry for laziness since the answer is probably in here somewhere but is the housing easy to disassemble? And what are the dimensions of the raw driver?


tweeter is glued to the housing, so cannot be dissembled, and the dimensions are on the first page.


----------



## SO20thCentury

If you click on a picture & get into Mark's photobucket you can find diagrams that include dimensions of everything & how they fit together.
Mark said he would send mine not glued together. Since it'll be sunk into the curved surface of the door I intend to not use the flange of the housing outside of the grill. I'll still have to modify the housing.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

SO20thCentury said:


> If you click on a picture & get into Mark's photobucket you can find diagrams that include dimensions of everything & how they fit together.
> Mark said he would send mine not glued together. Since it'll be sunk into the curved surface of the door I intend to not use the flange of the housing outside of the grill. I'll still have to modify the housing.



Evil little buger.

Get into Mark's photobucket!

I never do that.... much:laugh:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

miniSQ said:


> tweeter is glued to the housing, so cannot be dissembled, and the dimensions are on the first page.


And that is how it works.

If you want one that is disassembled you will have to special request it.


----------



## SO20thCentury

mwmkravchenko said:


> Evil little buger.
> 
> Get into Mark's photobucket!
> 
> I never do that.... much:laugh:


Oh c'mon - it's not like you don't have it all out there for the whole world to see!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Oh there are many more pics that are not up there. I'm slowly putting them on my website.


----------



## req

mwmkravchenko said:


> Who do you think?
> 
> Silly question....


oh awesome! well im im asking for dibs on the aluminum version!!!

thanks for sending the aluminum ones to me and not keeping them for yourself!!


what a guy!!!

:laugh:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

req said:


> oh awesome! well im im asking for dibs on the aluminum version!!!
> 
> thanks for sending the aluminum ones to me and not keeping them for yourself!!
> 
> 
> what a guy!!!
> 
> :laugh:


And, then... he woke up.

:mean:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

THere is light at the end of the tunnel.

I have a due date of January 15th 2015. I threw a hissy fit and demanded something by that date. Felt like a good thing to do. And I felt a lot better.

You have to watch how many times you give a person a piece of your mind. Because pretty soon you will run out of pieces!

And it almost looks like I might be able to get them in a state of at least ready to ship by that time!


----------



## xxx_busa

I guess - I'll wait............... and wait & wait . nice thanks


----------



## SO20thCentury

mwmkravchenko said:


> Oh there are many more pics that are not up there. I'm slowly putting them on my website.


There's some good lurking on there! Except the pictures that are labeled provide such good info that the ones that aren't create questions, like what is that contraption? What does that do? What are those cute furry little animals? Why is Mark making that face? etc, etc
:surprised:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> There's some good lurking on there! Except the pictures that are labeled provide such good info that the ones that aren't create questions, like what is that contraption? What does that do? What are those cute furry little animals? Why is Mark making that face? etc, etc


That's me having a little fun. I try really hard not to take myself to seriously. Cute furry animals are Bacon and Porkchop. Or ducks, or geese. I have a little barn and raise some animals for food to. Every year I raise two pigs. Treat them right and feed them well and give them a good quick end. I keep twenty laying hens and buy 50 mixed chicken in then beginning of May that make their way into my freezer. I know what they ate, and I like looking after them.

A little like the rest of the business. It's the parts that go in that make the whole. Start with good ingredients and you get a good product.

Just takes me so stinking long sometimes.

A great case in point in the migration of my AMT work to a much more local producer. It took me a few years to line up the right companies and providers. But very soon I will be offering an AMT with the vital parts made here in Canada and the United States.

So onward and upward.

For all the fence sitters, I have 150 pieces of the car mounts coming. So I will have extras. The tweeters proper are about a two month wait if I end up needing more than 150 pieces.


----------



## Bminus

PM sent!!!


----------



## killbride

hey i'd like to sell my groupbuy slot. have to cover some other expenses. all i need is the 125 i paid at the groupbuy rate. pm if interested


----------



## fulletal7777

You're making me sad


----------



## capea4

Pm sent on open slot


----------



## mwmkravchenko

One way this has been handled is the new guy pays for the spot, the old guy gets the refund.

It makes my addressing easy.

But it's up to you two.


----------



## capea4

:laugh:No problem...I'm not a "new guy" already got a set coming. Now I'm hoarding.:laugh:
Jk jk
Send the invoice please


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I forget the names of my son's. With you I don't have a chance! I wouldn't remember at gun point.

It's a comin....

If you give me an email address.


----------



## capea4

Pm sent....
Thank you both


----------



## etroze

Oh 10 days till these could possibly be in hand!!!!!


----------



## squiers007

etroze said:


> Oh 10 days till these could possibly be in hand!!!!!


I'm soooo excited for this!!! Already got my new mids installed in anticipation.


----------



## douggiestyle

I'd like to put my spot up for sale as well. Same terms, $125. Simply can't accumulate more equipment at the moment.


----------



## Kevmoso

I'll put mine up too.


----------



## cksigmapi

How are we looking on that January 15th ship date? I'm eager, to say the least.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I check and I check. When I have confirmation pictures I will be jumping for joy so much you guys will all know.

No end to the things that are on the back burner for mer because of this.

And it weighs heavy on my mind on the promises I have made for due dates that have not been honored.

I am pushing as hard as I can.


----------



## miniSQ

mwmkravchenko said:


> I check and I check. When I have confirmation pictures I will be jumping for joy so much you guys will all know.
> 
> No end to the things that are on the back burner for mer because of this.
> 
> And it weighs heavy on my mind on the promises I have made for due dates that have not been honored.
> 
> I am pushing as hard as I can.


There was some discussion on the OnCore thread about the similarities in look between your tweeter and eric stevens tweeter....care to comment?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

You mean this one?









It has a cup, and a dome. And it's black.

And that's where the similarity stops.

I have an idea where they bought them. And it's not from me or my factory.

I have some samples beside me that are fairly close.


----------



## capea4

douggiestyle said:


> I'd like to put my spot up for sale as well. Same terms, $125. Simply can't accumulate more equipment at the moment.


By they way, if you turn in your spot, he charges $165 shipped for the pair...not $125. That's what he did on my second set purchased the other day


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I think I sent you the wrong invoice. Send me an email and I'll refund you the difference.


----------



## Ainuke

I'm hoping the final iteration has the hexagonal screen as in the early prototypes. Then it'll match my K-Audio wide-banders!

Can't wait!!


----------



## kmagyar

I would like to get in on a pair of these if anyone wants to back out.


----------



## xxx_busa

You may like that.



Ainuke said:


> I'm hoping the final iteration has the hexagonal screen as in the early prototypes. Then it'll match my K-Audio wide-banders!
> 
> Can't wait!!


----------



## xxx_busa

The must be ready to ship soon.............


----------



## douggiestyle

My spot is still available if anyone is interested


----------



## kmcnamar

douggiestyle said:


> My spot is still available if anyone is interested


I'm interested! Sent you a PM


----------



## capea4

mwmkravchenko said:


> I think I sent you the wrong invoice. Send me an email and I'll refund you the difference.


And I did the minute you posted this?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

OK.

Well either I lost it, or it didn't get to me.

mark at kravchenko dash audio dot com


----------



## capea4

No sorry,
I clicked on your user name and send email.


----------



## capea4

Wow that was fast, refund received.
I didn't think I was calling you out on your price, I just thought it should be noted.
Thanks for upholding your original price though sir!


----------



## Eric Stevens

mwmkravchenko said:


> You mean this one?
> 
> View attachment 58143
> 
> 
> It has a cup, and a dome. And it's black.
> 
> And that's where the similarity stops.
> 
> I have an idea where they bought them. And it's not from me or my factory.
> 
> I have some samples beside me that are fairly close.
> 
> View attachment 58143
> 
> 
> View attachment 58144


Yes the Oncore tweeter is not the same. This is actually our own tooling and very similar to the tooling done for the Chameleon components. The tweeter housing is threaded and has threads in the rear that allow it to mounted coaxial on the C series components. The tweeter comes with two front panels that screw on, one for flush mounting separately or for coaxial mounting.


----------



## kmagyar

I'm still interested in a set. Anyone that wants to back out please let me know.


----------



## SO20thCentury

The pre-buy price was $125 but after that period was over the regular price was $165. I'd think that's still the case.


----------



## kmagyar

SO20thCentury said:


> The pre-buy price was $125 but after that period was over the regular price was $165. I'd think that's still the case.


It should still be a presale price. They havent even finished production let alone shipping


----------



## mwmkravchenko

kmagyar said:


> It should still be a presale price. They havent even finished production let alone shipping


Nasty but true. 

I have a couple spots left.

If you want come and get em.


----------



## kmagyar

mwmkravchenko said:


> Nasty but true.
> 
> I have a couple spots left.
> 
> If you want come and get em.


Payments already been sent brah!


----------



## douggiestyle

My spot still available unless kmcnamar gets back to me by end of day. I've already lost out on other interested parties, Mark knows I'm selling my spot, and I want to get this resolved before shipping happens.


----------



## etroze

Oh is today the day? Can't wait to get these in hand kinda jumping up and down right now so excited.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

It's the day when I get the right news from China.

I'm in the same boat as Nick.

Hurry up and wait.


----------



## etroze

Understandable, give me a little more time to figure out pillars and things like that.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

If I had a buck for every time I've been told everything is OK and on schedule, well I would have at least a $100.


----------



## lizardking

Unfortunately, thats what happens when you put faith in China for businesses purposes.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

It's not uncommon for any large business to push small jobs to the back burner. And one that required good finish and high tolerance is a pain for any place to do.

If I could get this stuff made here at a useful price, believe me, I would.

The trouble is this simple.

If I go to Emminece or MICSO they will source the parts from the same place I source the parts.

I've been down this road more than once.

Never been shafted on the product. Just shafted on the delivery dates.

Now I'm a little concerned about Chinese New Year rearing it's ugly one month delay.


----------



## kmagyar

So this could take days to months still?


----------



## lizardking

mwmkravchenko said:


> It's not uncommon for any large business to push small jobs to the back burner. And one that required good finish and high tolerance is a pain for any place to do.
> 
> If I could get this stuff made here at a useful price, believe me, I would.
> 
> The trouble is this simple.
> 
> If I go to Emminece or MICSO they will source the parts from the same place I source the parts.
> 
> I've been down this road more than once.
> 
> Never been shafted on the product. Just shafted on the delivery dates.
> 
> Now I'm a little concerned about Chinese New Year rearing it's ugly one month delay.


We need American Manufacturing, but hard to find investors willing to put faith in it again. We are at their mercy. "Made in China"!


----------



## xxx_busa

I think what we'd all like to hear is exactly, what is completed ? What are we waiting for ?

Naturally if all the people whom got on this for $125, And its put back up @ $165, that right there could be cause for delay, Not that it is!, 

But what is holding this cheese ball up ???..... Maybe if Emminece or MICSO had source what screens? how much are screens $150?

The way this BS is running this should really be at diyaudio group buys section. I'm starting to feel like I'm watch a Buzzard clean a dead carcass.


----------



## Bayboy

Being a bit cynical .... manufacturing in the US is a good thing, but will not be entirely different. In the end, money talks. That's is the universal language! Any manufacturer, any plant will put the big jobs on top with small orders as fillers. Been working in a plant for almost 20 years. The same is done here.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Waiting on the grills. Tweeters themselves are finished. The people who got in at group buy price aren't going to be charged more.


----------



## capea4

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Waiting on the grills. Tweeters themselves are finished. The people who got in at group buy price aren't going to be charged more.


If that's true, I don't want the grills.
Can I have mine now


----------



## foreman

I understand we all paid for something and it's been delayed more than once, plus it sucks not having something as we were promised. But....Mark is really hooking us up, at least i think so. While it would be nice to have them, i doubt any of us here are hurting for a temp tweeter to use in the interim. My $.02


----------



## SPAZ

mwmkravchenko said:


> It's not uncommon for any large business to push small jobs to the back burner. And one that required good finish and high tolerance is a pain for any place to do.
> 
> If I could get this stuff made here at a useful price, believe me, I would.
> 
> The trouble is this simple.
> 
> If I go to Emminece or MICSO they will source the parts from the same place I source the parts.
> 
> I've been down this road more than once.
> 
> Never been shafted on the product. Just shafted on the delivery dates.
> 
> Now I'm a little concerned about Chinese New Year rearing it's ugly one month delay.


Thanks for the update


----------



## capea4

foreman said:


> I understand we all paid for something and it's been delayed more than once, plus it sucks not having something as we were promised. But....Mark is really hooking us up, at least i think so. While it would be nice to have them, i doubt any of us here are hurting for a temp tweeter to use in the interim. My $.02


Oohkay....I'll wait


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## cajunner

I'm going with March 23 as the date the first orders are shipped out...

what's the over/under?


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## miniSQ

cajunner said:


> I'm going with March 23 as the date the first orders are shipped out...
> 
> what's the over/under?


i cancelled my order in mid to late November when i realized they would not make it here by winter...and i needed tunes. So the first day of spring is March 20, so i will take the under and say March 20th.


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## mwmkravchenko

First.

xxx_busa

Fair enough.

I can openly say I deserved that comment.

Those of you who have kids know the feeling of helplessness that you get when your wife is giving birth.

Not quite as bad here, but not a heck of a lot I can do on my end.

Flying out there to stoke the fires is just not in the budget on this groupbuy.

I really gave you guys a deal on these. Seriously, there are lesser drivers that are selling for more per piece than I am charging a set shipped.

And to sharpen xxx_busa's point I have let you down. 

I get to pass on the odd bit of information.

If I told you everytime I was lied to that a couple weeks away is the finish. Then what?

Today is the day for me to hit the fan again and push the powers that be as much as I can.

Remember the process tree. I have three companies I am trying to get together. Only one of them has a person that communicates in English.

Price of Chinese production.

I told a client I was doing a group buy. And his words were simple. Don't do it.

I honestly believed with my connections I could pull it off.

It's been a humbling experience.

And I'm never doing it again.

I'd rather take the production hit and sell them slowly than put you guys through this again.

It's not fair to anyone.


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## capea4

In all honesty, I didn't purchase these because of a release date.
It's not like it was these or brand x, and the ship dates mattered, I bought the product based upon you, and your expectations.

For me, when the come they come. It's a preorder....as in they aren't made yet.
We all knew that.

I don't belive that anyone holds you in a malicious sence. Some may cancel because they need a solution now, but I don't feel that is a reflection of you either.
Now if they don't perform as stated, then you MAY see an uprising.


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## mwmkravchenko

I already tested them all. They are all the same.

That part I can guarantee.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Completely agreed with the sentiments above. This is a pre-order group buy. Most companies go through the same delays, just in private. How many times have other products been delayed because of this or that.

The only difference here is that Mark allowed a certain amount of people to pre-order, for a lower price than his set retail price. I believe he even warned that the release date was not guaranteed but that it was his best attempt to get things lined up by then. 

I'll continue to wait. It's not an issue for me.


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## fulletal7777

It's not like I'll ever settle on anything in order to actually get to putting my system together anyways... lol take all the time you need


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## shillermanlite

mwmkravchenko said:


> I already tested them all. They are all the same.
> 
> That part I can guarantee.


I believe that is the main reason most of us ordered. Your frequent honest updates are very professional and appreciated. I look forward to these and have no regrets about placing my order.


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## fredridge

pre orders for something that is still being built are not for the faint of heart....you have to plan to not need it at any specific time.

Think about all those people who have pre ordered their Tesla model X


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## diy.phil

Tesla is easy to trust (big factory is right there on I-680 and Mission Blvd, and many other favorable reasons). Just have to wait forever lol.


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## tjswarbrick

It's not unlike a kickstarter campaign for world-class tweeters. Except I think Mark already has my money.

I bought a near-custom high performance flashlight made to exacting standards and tight tolerances. His US supplier changed hands and decided he was too small potatoes to bother with. Took 4 shops and a year of trying to find another. I waited 14 months for mine. But I had a production item at 1/3 cost to get me through. Glad I waited anyway. Love the light and use/carry it every day. That kind of quality is hard to find anymore. That's why I signed up for Mark's tweeter. Light guy wanted to keep production US - which I encourage. But he's since had to raise prices some 20%.


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## sunshinefc3s

Anyone selling their pre-order spot?
PM me.


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## Lymen

Sunday fun day bump!


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## xxx_busa

I sell my slot, but if he doesn't deliver, But to be honest, Its vapor.....



sunshinefc3s said:


> Anyone selling their pre-order spot?
> PM me.


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## mwmkravchenko

xxx_busa said:


> I sell my slot, but if he doesn't deliver, But to be honest, Its vapor.....


I see you have a glass half empty day today.

To take stock on the process: 

What you have is the drivers are all done. Have been for a few months.
That is the only part I myself have complete control over, and it is done.


What I am doing in the background is trying to balance out putting up news and keeping everything honest.

I'm trying hard to be fair with everyone without telling a boatload of lies. I get told regularly that everything is fine. And I'm burning through quite a few favors to get a handle on what is actually going on over there.

I've worked enough times in China and have enough project experience to know that the people I'm dealing with will eventually get my jobs done. 

They have never been done on time yet! There is always delays. The jobs are small and I push for and only accept the best. This job is no exception.


This is my first attempt at producing a car mount and I have not worked the metal fabrication vendors before. So this is in the process of me finding out what actually has been accomplished on their end.


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## SPAZ

Thanks for the update


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## mwmkravchenko

It's not much of an update!

It's a "I'm slugging away at it from behind the scenes"

xxxbusa is keeping me on my toes!

Just wish there was a front view of his avatar.

Although he should be pretty happy with the existing view!


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## foreman

Mark, honestly i wouldn't worry about the few that are bent on the time line. I'm just patiently waiting on a quality product. Thanks again for this opportunity.


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## etroze

Yep same spot with me and look forward to building some mains with these tweets and a set of your 5.25's and 8's, but that will take some time.


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## mwmkravchenko

OK I have been going through all the purchases versus what I have made for drivers.

There are still a dozen pair left to go if anyone is still interested.


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## mwmkravchenko

On another note.

A few gents paid for 6.5 drivers.

I have given them a heads up on an alternate that I have in stock. If I have missed anybody please let me know.


Back to your regular paid programming.


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## Bayboy

mwmkravchenko said:


> OK I have been going through all the purchases versus what I have made for drivers.
> 
> There are still a dozen pair left to go if anyone is still interested.


As far as the tweeters? Still group buy price?


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## mwmkravchenko

Bayboy said:


> As far as the tweeters? Still group buy price?


As someone so aptly pointed out, they are still a pre-sale at this point so yes I will put them up for $125 a set.


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## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> On another note.
> 
> A few gents paid for 6.5 drivers.
> 
> I have given them a heads up on an alternate that I have in stock. If I have missed anybody please let me know.
> 
> 
> Back to your regular paid programming.


I paid for these tweeters and the 6.5". I didn't receive a notice on the 6.5". What is the status on those?


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## mwmkravchenko

edouble101 said:


> I paid for these tweeters and the 6.5". I didn't receive a notice on the 6.5". What is the status on those?


I thought I missed someone.

I'll get you an email in a minute.


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## bdmach1

Thanks for the update Mark!


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## xxx_busa

I remember paying $165.00, I guess I get the ******* rate.




mwmkravchenko said:


> As someone so aptly pointed out, they are still a pre-sale at this point so yes I will put them up for $125 a set.


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## Bminus

I paid $165 as well..... because at the time there were no slots open for the presale price.....


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## sunshinefc3s

xxx_busa said:


> I remember paying $165.00, I guess I get the ******* rate.


Or, instead of acting like an entitled, sarcastic ass, you can just be polite and ask Mark to give you a refund of $40. 

Then you can say thank you: for the refund, for all the information he shared in those posts (he makes a living on that information), for all the hard work he is putting into this side project, for brining a unique and innovative product to a very small, particular, and hard-to-please community of enthusiasts.


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## mwmkravchenko




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## Bayboy

PM sent


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## fulletal7777

sunshinefc3s said:


> Or, instead of acting like an entitled, sarcastic ass, you can just be polite and ask Mark to give you a refund of $40.
> 
> Then you can say thank you: for the refund, for all the information he shared in those posts (he makes a living on that information), for all the hard work he is putting into this side project, for brining a unique and innovative product to a very small, particular, and hard-to-please community of enthusiasts.


Rekt


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## miniSQ

sunshinefc3s said:


> Or, instead of acting like an entitled, sarcastic ass, you can just be polite and ask Mark to give you a refund of $40.
> 
> Then you can say thank you: for the refund, for all the information he shared in those posts (he makes a living on that information), for all the hard work he is putting into this side project, for brining a unique and innovative product to a very small, particular, and hard-to-please community of enthusiasts.


You must be referring to days gone by, when people had manners and social skills. a distant memory for most people.


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## mwmkravchenko

They are not that distant of a memory for some of us.

Civility is appreciated by all. Even those who seem to have forgotten about it like it when they are treated with kindness.


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## fulletal7777

miniSQ said:


> You must be referring to days gone by, when people had manners and social skills. a distant memory for most people.


THIS
IS
THE INTERNET!!!


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## xxx_busa

why would I start now, He hasn't responded directly or indirectly to one request of mine yet. 




sunshinefc3s said:


> Or, instead of acting like an entitled, sarcastic ass, you can just be polite and ask Mark to give you a refund of $40.
> 
> Then you can say thank you: for the refund, for all the information he shared in those posts (he makes a living on that information), for all the hard work he is putting into this side project, for brining a unique and innovative product to a very small, particular, and hard-to-please community of enthusiasts.


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## mwmkravchenko

fulletal7777 said:


> THIS
> IS
> THE INTERNET!!!


And?

Does supposed anonymity give a person a place to hide and misbehave?


Even if you believe it does, the internet is an open repository of all we put onto it.

We are all accountable for what we do, be it good or bad.

It follows us around, and either helps us or hinders us when we least expect it.

Kind of like real life eh? 

Off my SOAP BOX.


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## mwmkravchenko

xxx_busa said:


> why would I start now, He hasn't responded directly or indirectly to one request of mine yet.


That's not true.

I have agreed with you.



> I guess I get the ******* rate.


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## foreman

^^^
That just made my day


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## Bayboy

In for the ride now!  Could care less about the wait. Not like the location is primed up for it anyway. Waiting on the SI mid as well and have a feeling both will arrive within the same time frame which will work out just fine. The next quest will be how to power a sub(s) to accompany the set. Patience is key.


----------



## edouble101

mwmkravchenko said:


> I thought I missed someone.
> 
> I'll get you an email in a minute.



I have not received an email or PM


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## cksigmapi

This is just getting fun!

I've also ordered a set of SI mids and am keeping my fingers crossed that both sets arrive around the same time.

Suuuuuper pumped! Also, very entertained.


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## Bayboy

cksigmapi said:


> This is just getting fun!
> 
> I've also ordered a set of SI mids and am keeping my fingers crossed that both sets arrive around the same time.
> 
> Suuuuuper pumped! Also, very entertained.


Meh.... I'm patient. Just knowing that something worthwhile is soon to be at use is enough to not sweat it. I started to opt for some xbl^2 subs, but I already have enough clinical subs as is. May try to score a MS-A5001 to power a pair instead of the 4 channel going to waste. Got plenty of time to decide though.


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## Bminus

I dont mind the wait.. And I dont mind the $165 rate either because it will all be worth it once that set gets to my door..


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## Bayboy

Well the SI mids are getting closer to being a reality since the parts will be arriving tomorrow. Still gives some time since they have to be built. The KAXBLTWT tweets probably aren't too far out. I'm staying optimistic regardless.


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## legend94

Bayboy said:


> Meh.... I'm patient. Just knowing that something worthwhile is soon to be at use is enough to not sweat it. I started to opt for some xbl^2 subs, but I already have enough clinical subs as is. May try to score a MS-A5001 to power a pair instead of the 4 channel going to waste. Got plenty of time to decide though.


Pm me if you need one of those amps.


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## triplettt

PM sent.


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## smgreen20

mwmkravchenko said:


> As someone so aptly pointed out, they are still a pre-sale at this point so yes I will put them up for $125 a set.


This was a week ago, at almost 30 pages long now, could I get the link to the preorder? If it's still up next Wed, I'll be getting a set. 

Thanks


----------



## shillermanlite

smgreen20 said:


> This was a week ago, at almost 30 pages long now, could I get the link to the preorder? If it's still up next Wed, I'll be getting a set.
> 
> Thanks


You need to send Mark a pm and ask him directly. He is a very honest and fair man. I am waiting for these also but the quality is what matters most.


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## smgreen20

Thank you much.


----------

