# Which old school amp lines do you think are worthy of collecting?



## Fricasseekid

I used to have a Zed made US Acoustics USA2300 in highschool, like this one here:








I was quite fond of this amp even though I didn't know who made it or who Zed was at the time. I'm toying with the idea of investing money and searching out the older USA model Us Acoustic amplifiers. Do you think these amps are worth seeking out and purchasing? 

I know there are people around here that go nuts over particular old school lines such as the PPI Arts and some of the older Orion lines. What other old school amp lines do you think are worth collecting, refurbishing, and holding on to?

Also if you have a nice collection of any particular line of old school amplifiers post photos.


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## Fricasseekid

I think this thread needs some attention.


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## sqshoestring

Many USA made amps before about '94 are collected. Friend of mine has a pyle amp made in USA by Zed iirc. Check out the old school thread or look on epay to see what ones are priced the highest. A few years ago the market was pretty heavy for them but it has slowed down like everything else.


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## Fricasseekid

sqshoestring said:


> Many USA made amps before about '94 are collected. Friend of mine has a pyle amp made in USA by Zed iirc. Check out the old school thread or look on epay to see what ones are priced the highest. A few years ago the market was pretty heavy for them but it has slowed down like everything else.


Well I really just want to collect the US Acoustics amps for personal and nostalgic reasons. But if they aren't super reliable and aren't known for their SQ, why bother?


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## starboy869

Don't go down that way. I almost had most of the ppi 1996 line up at one time. Then I reliased 3/4 of it was collecting dust. I just sold most of it off except for the hard to find stuff like a dac 348, pmq 210, 1" spacer, and my overseas limited runs arts. 

I have a sounds works demo a600.2 that I need to off load soon.


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## Fricasseekid

starboy869 said:


> Don't go down that way. I almost had most of the ppi 1996 line up at one time. Then I reliased 3/4 of it was collecting dust. I just sold most of it off except for the hard to find stuff like a dac 348, pmq 210, 1" spacer, and my overseas limited runs arts.
> 
> I have a sounds works demo a600.2 that I need to off load soon.


So regret building your collection?


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## starboy869

yup x2


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## Linear Power

*Monolithic for collection*

I think Monolithic is quite worthy to be collected.


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## asota

Like most all collectibles if it was expensive back then it is sought after and expensive now plus condition means everything. The very earliest of the most popular lines exp. PPI pre M series, Rockford Fosgate pre Punch series and the very earliest Linear Power amps pre 85' these amps in mint condition will be (are) the holy grail of collectible amps. I don't really see amps like PPI M AM ART although sought after will ever be woth more than they were new just to many of them made.


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## robert_wrath

Here are some notable companies:
- Linear Power
- Zapco ( The OG Bob Zeff units )
- ESX
- Micro Dimension 
- Furi
- Blade
- Sound Stream ( The originals )
- Genesis


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## chefhow

IMHO, NONE....


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## robert_wrath

Forgot to add Velodyne on my list of manufacturers.


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## slowsedan01

robert_wrath said:


> Here are some notable companies:
> - Linear Power
> - Zapco ( The OG Bob Zeff units )
> - ESX
> - Micro Dimension
> - Furi
> - Blade
> - Sound Stream ( The originals )
> - Genesis


x2 on Furi and Micro Dimension


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## MadeByMonkey

None of them because your money would be better utilized by collecting something that actually appreciates in value.


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## SUX 2BU

I don't know about being collectable, but the ones I like to collect are:

Alpine 3523/3525/3539 series of amps from 1988. 
Alpine 3545 is collectable. Pretty much anyone knows what they are....except one of the two that I bought for a whopping $110! I think the guy sorta knew what it was but didn't appreciate it.

RF Power series from the late '80s I would say are collectible. They rarely ever go for cheap.


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## FG79

MadeByMonkey said:


> None of them because your money would be better utilized by collecting something that actually appreciates in value.


That is a debatable point, but I don't think people are viewing this like '60s muscle cars. You collect these amps because you like the way they sound, period. 

As for brands, a strong vote for the Phoenix Gold MS series amps. Great balance of power & SQ.

Not sure what the original MSRP on an MS1000 was, but I have spent about $1000 for one BNIB a few years back, and $700 for another one that was used.


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## ChrisB

I should chastise Fricasseekid for being in Louisiana and not supporting the one remaining Louisiana amplifier manufacturer, Lunar Amplifiers!

I also have an old school Orion collection, but I would sell it tomorrow if the right buyer would come along!

EDIT: Nostalgia is so overrated when it comes to electronics!


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## sqshoestring

Fricasseekid said:


> Well I really just want to collect the US Acoustics amps for personal and nostalgic reasons. But if they aren't super reliable and aren't known for their SQ, why bother?


I don't know about them, I did have a tech tell me he hated them far as old school and the guy really knows his stuff...but just his opinion as a tech. I would say collect the stuff you like and would use, then you have it to use when needed. I keep some old amps for how they work, I don't really care who made them. Most are alpines and not valuable like a linear power for sure. I sold my LPs long ago when I found something cheaper that worked as well for my use. One of the little alpines I like, once bought another for $5 for a spare. I would never buy old amps to collect them but people do, I would buy ones I wanted for a particular reason but only because I might use them not because of the name. In general the better ones are the ones you want to use, but I was never stuck on a name. Linear power or RF, they both made some great amps for example. In fact a guy just gave me some RF and an Orion I need to look at.

In the end its all what you want. Some people like to run old amps, like X brand, doing a period install...so do it. I run what works, but would get period amps for a muscle car install that was not stealth. If I had an amp here worth a lot of cash, I'd have to have a good reason to keep it. I don't know if I have an amp that is worth much over 100, I have a few like that the rest are worth much less I'd guess. I've seen perfect ones that sold for over 300, but mine are not perfect they are for use in a car lol.


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## smgreen20

To many to list, 
Phoenix Gold,
Sound stream, 
Lanzar, 
PPI, 
Clarion ,
.......just to name a select few.


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## smgreen20

Double post, sorry.


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## cyberdraven

how about the Audison HR100?


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## Old Skewl

Electronics deteriorate over time. OS amps are worth money if they work, not worth much if they don't. Sitting around the caps can go bad as well as other internal electronics. Hate to have a bunch of money wrapped up in working collectible amps and then find out years later that they don't work, need repairs and now are worth squat.

I would only buy what you plan to use. I have quite a few Soundstream Reference amps and recently picked up a Orion HCCA 250R. Owned PPI M series amps back in the day. I think they have a warmer, more quality sound than many amps today(at least that I can afford.)

Just my 2 cents


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## Linear Power

Old Skewl said:


> Electronics deteriorate over time. OS amps are worth money if they work, not worth much if they don't. Sitting around the caps can go bad as well as other internal electronics. Hate to have a bunch of money wrapped up in working collectible amps and then find out years later that they don't work, need repairs and now are worth squat.
> 
> I would only buy what you plan to use. I have quite a few Soundstream Reference amps and recently picked up a Orion HCCA 250R. Owned PPI M series amps back in the day. I think they have a warmer, more quality sound than many amps today(at least that I can afford.)
> 
> Just my 2 cents


I have OS amps that still work after 20 years, I renew all the capacitors that have a leaking risk, so it can be used for another 20 years. The danger of broken amps come from the unnoticed leaking capacitor, the capacitor oil flooding the pcb, then make a burn hole there. If you anticipate that before it happens, then you are safe to use your amps forever.


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## underdog

Linear Power said:


> I have OS amps that still work after 20 years, I renew all the capacitors that have a leaking risk, so it can be used for another 20 years. The danger of broken amps come from the unnoticed leaking capacitor, the capacitor oil flooding the pcb, then make a burn hole there. If you anticipate that before it happens, then you are safe to use your amps forever.


How do you identify potential problems?
Just a visual inspection? How often?

I do not see many electronics going bad from setting.
Unless they are stored in bad conditions.
But thinking about it; In use = bad conditions.
Hot - Cold - Damp - Dust/Dirt - etc

Collect what you like
Preferably something that can be used. But beautiful things are nice also.


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## Linear Power

underdog said:


> How do you identify potential problems?
> Just a visual inspection? How often?
> 
> I do not see many electronics going bad from setting.
> Unless they are stored in bad conditions.
> But thinking about it; In use = bad conditions.
> Hot - Cold - Damp - Dust/Dirt - etc
> 
> Collect what you like
> Preferably something that can be used. But beautiful things are nice also.


Usually big capacitors have a lot of oil in it, and will leak along with its age. When it shaped like a balloon, it will explode in a short time. I never wait until it shapes like balloon, when I got an OS amps that I know aged more than 10 years, usually I replace all of the capacitors with a better capacitor such as Sprague, Elna, Mundorf.

Small capacitors also have oil in it, but with that small amount of oil, the risk of burning the pcb is small too, I mean they will not make a significant damage when it happens.

The creator of hand made amps usually already think about the possibility of capacitor leaks. Look at how they put the capacitors on the pcb, they put the caps in a vertical position, not a horizontal position as the machine made does. They do that for anticipating capacitor leaks, so when the leaks happen, the oil will spill out on the safe direction. When the machine made amps have a capacitor leaks, the oil will spill on the pcb directly.


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## Darth SQ

ChrisB said:


> I should chastise Fricasseekid for being in Louisiana and not supporting the one remaining Louisiana amplifier manufacturer, Lunar Amplifiers!!



Is that the line of amps that's shaped like a mudbug? 




ChrisB said:


> I also have an old school Orion collection, but I would sell it tomorrow if the right buyer would come along!
> 
> *EDIT: Nostalgia is so overrated when it comes to electronics!*


And expensive as I am finding out.

It's only money right? 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chefhow

PPI-ART COLLECTOR;1471540
[B said:


> And expensive as I am finding out[/B].
> 
> It's only money right?
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


So much so that you could have had just about any mid to high level amps you wanted when you factor in the initial investment of the amps and all of the work you are doing to restore them. And this brings me back to my initial impressions about collecting amps, IMHO its not worth it.


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## asawendo

Linear Power said:


> Usually big capacitors have a lot of oil in it, and will leak along with its age. When it shaped like a balloon, it will explode in a short time. I never wait until it shapes like balloon, when I got an OS amps that I know aged more than 10 years, usually I replace all of the capacitors with a better capacitor such as Sprague, Elna, Mundorf.
> 
> Small capacitors also have oil in it, but with that small amount of oil, the risk of burning the pcs is small too, I mean they will not make a significant damage when it happens.
> 
> The creator of hand made amps usually already think about the possibility of capacitor leaks. Look at how they put the capacitors on the pcb, the put the caps in a vertical position, not a horizontal position as the machine made does. They do that for anticipating capacitor leaks, so when the leaks happen, the oil will spill out on the safe direction. When the machine made amps have a
> capacitor leaks, the oil will spill on the pcb directly.


Couldn't agree more, i think in order to have a good restoration we must check the capasitor first. 

By the way some of my favorite amps are:

Monolithic
Linear Power
Rockford
Denon
Zapco
Orion
US Amps
Milbert
Butler
Alpine


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## asawendo

*Re: Monolithic for collection*



Linear Power said:


> I think Monolithic is quite worthy to be collected.


Exquisite Collection Bro!


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## Micksh

PPI Art Series and Pro Mos/M Series
U.S. Amps (Up until they changed after the "VLX"-style heatsinks)
Orion HCCA and GT (before the pop-tops)
Linear Power
Phoenix Gold (Like the Ms2125 and the like)
Rockford old Punch stuff
Zapco
Autotek BTS Series
Audio Art
Crunch made by Zed
Hifonics VI, VII, VIII
Lanzar Brute Force and old OPTI
Soundstream (older Reference)
Xtant
Monolithic
Blade Technologies SE Series and M Series

That's all I can think of right now...


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## Darth SQ

Micksh said:


> *PPI Art Series and Pro Mos/M Series*
> U.S. Amps (Up until they changed after the "VLX"-style heatsinks)
> Orion HCCA and GT (before the pop-tops)
> Linear Power
> Phoenix Gold (Like the Ms2125 and the like)
> Rockford old Punch stuff
> Zapco
> Autotek BTS Series
> Audio Art
> Crunch made by Zed
> Hifonics VI, VII, VIII
> Lanzar Brute Force and old OPTI
> Soundstream (older Reference)
> Xtant
> Monolithic
> Blade Technologies SE Series and M Series
> 
> That's all I can think of right now...


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Micksh

Thought about a couple more...
Rodek
MTX Thunder Series (240, 280, 2160, 2300. 4160, 4320)
G&S


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## bose301s

*ABSOLUTELY NONE!*


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## Fricasseekid

Haters gonna hate...


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## bose301s

Fricasseekid said:


> Haters gonna hate...


Morons gonna spend...


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## Fricasseekid

bose301s said:


> Morons gonna spend...


Says the guy with Bose301 as a screen name.


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## ChrisB

chefhow said:


> And this brings me back to my initial impressions about collecting amps, IMHO its not worth it.


It isn't and for all those equating vintage electronics to 60s muscle cars, even those have taken a hit in this economy. A vintage amplifier is only worth what a vintage collector is willing to pay, and even those prices have gone down compared to 2008 and 2009. 

If one had put their money into collecting something like gold or platinum, their collection would actually be worth something and more than likely would have appreciated in this economy.


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## Jonny Hotnuts

Even with less collectable names some really AWESOME amps were made as showcase and limited additions. 

Audison HR100
Alphasonic David 265

Sony XES M50
Sony XM 2000R

Collectable names but really rare.....
Orion GS series (really hard to find)
Some of the rare PG amps 

I think most of the stuff that OS collectors are the amps we could never afford and always wanted when we were kids. I still have a soft spot in my heart for the D and MC series SS amps. 

~JH


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## Fricasseekid

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> I think most of the stuff that OS collectors are the amps we could never afford and always wanted when we were kids. I still have a soft spot in my heart for the D and MC series SS amps.
> 
> ~JH


X2

Perhaps in the OP I used the wrong word when I said "investment". But I never meant to imply these amps would be an asset. 

Anyone who is making a big deal bout assets vs. liabilities and still considers themselves a car audio hobbyist is a big ol hypocrite!


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## ChrisB

Fricasseekid said:


> Perhaps in the OP I used the wrong word when I said "investment". But I never meant to imply these amps would be an asset.


Exactly... The purpose of an investment is to MAKE MONEY!

Now had you said "sunk cost" that would have been a more appropriate description.




Fricasseekid said:


> *Anyone who is making a big deal bout assets vs. liabilities and still considers themselves a car audio hobbyist is a big ol hypocrite!*


I'm not a hypocrite, I'm just a Certified Public Accountant who has always had audio as a hobby in some form or another. You should see what I have planned for my home stereo next.


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## ChrisB

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Is that the line of amps that's shaped like a mudbug?
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Actually, they remind me of power supplies when I look at them. Then again, I am also friends with the individual who designs and builds them, so maybe I am a little biased.


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## Fricasseekid

ChrisB said:


> Exactly... The purpose of an investment is to MAKE MONEY!
> 
> Now had you said "sunk cost" that would have been a more appropriate description.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a hypocrite, I'm just a Certified Public Accountant who has always had audio as a hobby in some form or another. You should see what I have planned for my home stereo next.


Sorry Chris, that comment wasn't directed at you. I'm jus aggravated cause this thread got sent to the dumb questions forum by people who can't see the value in simply owning something you like, and the same people take part in one of the most expensive hobbies around.


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## Fricasseekid

ChrisB said:


> Actually, they remind me of power supplies when I look at them. Then again, I am also friends with the individual who designs and builds them, so maybe I am a little biased.


Nice looking amps! Simple designs are always a first impression indicator towards good engineering.


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## ChrisB

Fricasseekid said:


> Nice looking amps! Simple designs are always a first impression indicator towards good engineering.


And again, shame on you for not supporting a Louisiana company.:laugh:


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## Fricasseekid

ChrisB said:


> And again, shame on you for not supporting a Louisiana company.:laugh:


My cousins started Bazooka. That was a Louisiana company.

Plus, isn't Linear Blues an LA affair?


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## trojan fan

My choice would be Monolithic....if you can even find them, very rare nowadays


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## ChrisB

Fricasseekid said:


> My cousins started Bazooka. That was a Louisiana company.


Dang, forgot about them and I was friends with Craig Romero who won IASCA using their speakers and amps. I think he worked for them for a short time too.



Fricasseekid said:


> Plus, isn't Linear Blues an LA affair?


More like Mississippi/Oklahoma/Kentucky/Germany


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## MadeByMonkey

Fricasseekid said:


> Sorry Chris, that comment wasn't directed at you. I'm jus aggravated cause this thread got sent to the dumb questions forum by people who can't see the value in simply owning something you like, and the same people take part in one of the most expensive hobbies around.


I hit the send to dumb questions button because there is nothing technical or advanced about collecting old school gear.


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## Jonny Hotnuts

I got me one of them Lunar things too!


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## Fricasseekid

MadeByMonkey said:


> I hit the send to dumb questions button because there is nothing technical or advanced about collecting old school gear.


Well when searching for a place to put this thread I figured it belonged in the same sub forum as the old school show off thread. Did you hit the send to dumb questions button on that one too?


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## TrickyRicky

Linear Power said:


> Usually big capacitors have a lot of oil in it, and will leak along with its age. When it shaped like a balloon, it will explode in a short time. I never wait until it shapes like balloon, when I got an OS amps that I know aged more than 10 years, usually I replace all of the capacitors with a better capacitor such as Sprague, Elna, Mundorf.
> 
> Small capacitors also have oil in it, but with that small amount of oil, the risk of burning the pcb is small too, I mean they will not make a significant damage when it happens.
> 
> The creator of hand made amps usually already think about the possibility of capacitor leaks. Look at how they put the capacitors on the pcb, they put the caps in a vertical position, not a horizontal position as the machine made does. They do that for anticipating capacitor leaks, so when the leaks happen, the oil will spill out on the safe direction. When the machine made amps have a capacitor leaks, the oil will spill on the pcb directly.


Really? Oil? They are pretty much ionic conducting liquid. Most capacitors that fail dont blow up or explode. They simply just leak with no sign (besides that nasty liguid that eats up traces.


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## rockytophigh

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> I got me one of them Lunar things too!


you get that damn lunar off that MC300 mister!!


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## robert_wrath

I forgot to add:
- Butler Audio / Tube Driver
- Milbert


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## bose301s

TrickyRicky said:


> Really? Oil? They are pretty much ionic conducting liquid. Most capacitors that fail dont blow up or explode. They simply just leak with no sign (besides that nasty liguid that eats up traces.


Exactly, it's pretty sad that a so called "designer" doesn't know this stuff. That may be because he has no actual education in electronics though. I know I certainly wouldn't trust him.


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## Fricasseekid

OIL CAPACITORS are often used in high-power electronic equipment. An oil-filled capacitor is nothing more than a paper capacitor that is immersed in oil. Since oil impregnated paper has a high dielectric constant, it can be used in the production of capacitors having a high capacitance value. Many capacitors will use oil with another dielectric material to prevent arcing between the plates. If arcing should occur between the plates of an oil-filled capacitor, the oil will tend to reseal the hole caused by the arcing. Such a capacitor is referred to as a SELF-HEALING capacitor.

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3f.htm


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## ChrisB

Fricasseekid said:


> OIL CAPACITORS are often used in high-power electronic equipment. An oil-filled capacitor is nothing more than a paper capacitor that is immersed in oil. Since oil impregnated paper has a high dielectric constant, it can be used in the production of capacitors having a high capacitance value. Many capacitors will use oil with another dielectric material to prevent arcing between the plates. If arcing should occur between the plates of an oil-filled capacitor, the oil will tend to reseal the hole caused by the arcing. Such a capacitor is referred to as a SELF-HEALING capacitor.
> 
> Fixed Capacitor


I have a test for you. I want you to point out the oil capacitors on this amplifier circuit board:


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## Fricasseekid

How the hell should I know?


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## bose301s

Fricasseekid said:


> OIL CAPACITORS are often used in *high-power electronic equipment*. An oil-filled capacitor is nothing more than a paper capacitor that is immersed in oil. Since oil impregnated paper has a high dielectric constant, it can be used in the production of capacitors having a high capacitance value. Many capacitors will use oil with another dielectric material to prevent arcing between the plates. If arcing should occur between the plates of an oil-filled capacitor, the oil will tend to reseal the hole caused by the arcing. Such a capacitor is referred to as a SELF-HEALING capacitor.
> 
> Fixed Capacitor


I bolded and made red the important part there. No car audio device is a high power electronic device, even a 10KW amp is a LOW POWER device. What you quoted is referring to industrial and power distribution applications in the 100's of KW range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor#Electrolyte


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## Fricasseekid

bose301s said:


> I bolded and made red the important part there. No car audio device is a high power electronic device, even a 10KW amp is a LOW POWER device. What you quoted is referring to industrial and power distribution applications in the 100's of KW range.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor#Electrolyte


This I already knew. After you posted I got curious cause I knew some capacitors used oil, so I searched for info. I posted cause I thought it was an interesting link. 

What I didn't know was whether or not all capacitors used in car audio amplifiers were electrolytic capacitors.


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## Jonny Hotnuts

> you get that damn lunar off that MC300 mister!


Concerned that the massive weight of the Lunar will crush the SS????
LOL

~JH


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## SoundJunkie

ChrisB said:


> Actually, they remind me of power supplies when I look at them. Then again, I am also friends with the individual who designs and builds them, so maybe I am a little biased.


Can I buy my L2200 back! Lol! It looks great now!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## rockytophigh

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> Concerned that the massive weight of the Lunar will crush the SS????
> LOL
> 
> ~JH


Ha! No....but put a towel under there....it's making me cringe.


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## ChrisB

SoundJunkie said:


> Can I buy my L2200 back! Lol! It looks great now!
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Everything's for sale, you just may not want to know the price! :laugh:


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## SoundJunkie

ChrisB said:


> Everything's for sale, you just may not want to know the price! :laugh:


Try me....lol! Or trade me...I will send you a PM if you are interested!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## mistert

Old school Soundstream Class A amplifiers. I had a Class A 3.0 and Class A 6.0 and wish I never got rid of them.


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## Sean Morrison

I'm not sure I understand the point of "collecting" old amps just to have them sit around. I guess if I had all kinds of disposable income then maybe. But if you're putting a system in a vehicle from scratch and you need some, then they do suddenly become very appealing both from a price perspective and a performance point. As long as you aren't holding out for one in visually mint condition.


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## Prime mova

Sean, I just like to collect and use the old school gear that relates to a time when a group of my mates and i would hang out at a car stereo shop on a Friday after work. We would have a schooner (beer ) during summer and scotch or bourbon in the winter. The owner was a great guy and alway welcomed us into his shop, lots of laughs and fun, most importantly got to see all of the latest gear.


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## TrickyRicky

Just took out my Alpine 7949 and installed my 9807. The graphics on the 9807 are wack but I can't tell much of a difference in SQ. Yes the 7949 sounded a bit better but not enought to bother me with the 9807 installed.

Now am pretty much giving away my last Linear Power amps but no one seems to want them.


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## hyacinth

I recall the days in the late 80's and early 90's when Fosgate and Hifonics amps were the bomb. I still have older Zapco Z series amps sitting on the shelf.


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## Prime mova

Yea, I remember those days, when Rockford Fosgate were rAdicAL and even they thought they were. Who would think of going from a BBQ amp to a jet pack style in the same decade "radical".


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## thebigjimsho

I have a slew of a/d/s/ amps on my ebay watch list.


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## Vega-LE

personally i wouldn't mind an old-school Coustic DR set-up (amps/speakers). throw in a Coustic deck, eq, and crossover.


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## Linear Power

ChrisB said:


> I have a test for you. I want you to point out the oil capacitors on this amplifier circuit board:


The big ten capacitors in the middle should be replaced before it looks like a balloon. And if you change the sound IC, you will get a different sound also, I used to try different kind of IC in order to get the sound that I like the most.


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## ChrisB

Linear Power said:


> The big ten capacitors in the middle should be replaced before it looks like a balloon. And if you change the sound IC, you will get a different sound also, I used to try different kind of IC in order to get the sound that I like the most.


That amp is long gone. Granted, I did make the mistake and try to use it to power a sub because I was led to believe it could. Let's just say that my tastes in "music" at the time resulted in it shutting down constantly.:laugh:


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## Linear Power

ChrisB said:


> That amp is long gone. Granted, I did make the mistake and try to use it to power a sub because I was led to believe it could. Let's just say that my tastes in "music" at the time resulted in it shutting down constantly.:laugh:


So sorry to hear that, that was a 8002SW Linear Power right?


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## ChrisB

Linear Power said:


> So sorry to hear that, that was a 8002SW Linear Power right?


5002


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## Linear Power

ChrisB said:


> 5002


Oh, I have one of them but I dont imagine it is so long, that is why I thought it was 8002 ha3x, my mistake.

After LP, what amps are you collecting now?


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## ChrisB

Linear Power said:


> Oh, I have one of them but I dont imagine it is so long, that is why I thought it was 8002 ha3x, my mistake.
> 
> After LP, what amps are you collecting now?


None.

I am about to start selling off my Orion pieces because it is highly likely that I will never use them in an install. I'm keeping my Lunar amplifiers, but, they are sticking around as backups in case of catastrophic equipment failure. My philosophy is that two is one and one is none, if you know what I mean.


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## mizzuu

*Re: Monolithic for collection*



Linear Power said:


> I think Monolithic is quite worthy to be collected.


Wowww.. awesome power @@
Is this belong to mqmq? Hehehe...


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## AKheathen

i'd say that if it was $1/watt or more, then it would fall into the collectable category...... me, i'm an old school hoarder/wrangler..... have quite the collection building. 6 directed 1100d's, and many ohters of the same line-up, a slew of ss ref amps, including 3-1000sx's, and a few 500sx's, a slew of about 30 or so old school amps, a collection of old school subs/speakers, heads, etc, and i both remember when it all came out, and will still keep collecting, because it is worth it to me to have them to play with and admire. as for new school stuff, i wait for it to blow up, take a look at the guts, and then buy it on the basis of most likely upgrading it with better quality parts. one of the next ones i'm throwing up on the bench isd going to be the pos lightning storm 1k that will be built up into a real amp


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## jonatbaylor

I'm not sure I'd collect them in a static manner i.e. just having them sit there...

That said, I have but *am also putting to use* a growing McIntosh and Boston Acoustics collection.

I had one car completely done, but I didn't feel the install was right and I took most of that gear out. I'm just getting back around to putting stuff back in. 

That said, if you collect things,* obviously you do it for fun.* I used to collect baseball cards as a kid and still do on some occasion.

Chances are, if you buy high end old school stuff like McIntosh and others, you'll at least get your money back on it..not like you'll lose your ass or something


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## poljana

IMHO, I have a real soft spot for old school phoenix gold amps (90's)
Ms and M series are my favorite SQ amps of all time. Made in the USA, when car audio was at it's climax!! Those amps were designed as good as it got, and really hold there own, even today. When there insides are put on display with the factory made plexi glass to show there guts, they truley look like pieces of art!


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## ChrisB

spring said:


> A classic amplifier is only worth that of a vintage collector is prepared pay, as well as those prices have gone down when compared with 2008 and 2009.


There is an echo in here. I could have sworn that someone already typed that. Oh yeah, it was me:



ChrisB said:


> It isn't and for all those equating vintage electronics to 60s muscle cars, even those have taken a hit in this economy. * A vintage amplifier is only worth what a vintage collector is willing to pay, and even those prices have gone down compared to 2008 and 2009. *
> 
> If one had put their money into collecting something like gold or platinum, their collection would actually be worth something and more than likely would have appreciated in this economy.


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## poljana

ChrisB said:


> There is an echo in here. I could have sworn that someone already typed that. Oh yeah, it was me:


lol..


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## Bampity

Collect: None.

Use: All.


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## WRX2010

Chris, keep in mind that the economy will eventually rebound (look at a century long chart of the Dow 30 and the 25% crash in 1987 doesn't really show up anymore). Those who are buying gold and other overpriced commodities NOW because demand is vastly greater than supply, will most certainly lose money because it is nearly impossible to time price movements. It wasn't that long ago that gold was $200-300 an ounce and OPEC was reducing production to keep oil near $20 a barrel.

Collecting amps is a personal decision and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Each of us has an affinity for one thing or another. I could have bought an incredible home audio system instead of the old school amps I have right now, but I would use that home system about as frequently as I will listen to the old school amps. For me, it is getting to own amps from when I couldn't afford them and always found them beautiful in design.

It could be worse . . . people collect cars that each cost more than most people will make in their lifetime.

If you want to collect amps, I say do it but don't go beyond your means to afford them and don't expect to make money off them down the road.


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## starboy869

WRX2010 said:


> *If you want to collect amps, I say do it but don't go beyond your means to afford them and don't expect to make money off them down the road.*


this


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## customtronic

I say if you have good memories or an attatchment to a specific brand then go ahead and buy them. But, like everyone stated, don't expect to make money on them later on. Personally, if I were to collect an old amp line it would probably be the series VIII Hifonics, the Orion XTR line, the Audion VR series, or the P.G. MS stuff. I only say this because I sold these lines at my stores back in the 90's. Would I go drop thousands to get them all now, definately not. Now...do I want some old school amps to install in my '72 Mach 1 Mustang? Definately. But I would be buying these to actually use, not collect. Just my two cents.


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## WRX2010

I like the series VIII Hifonics amps myself. I have 3 white ones: an Olympus, a Zeus and a Vulcan. All function fine, but the Zeus could use a check up, and if I wanted I could install them and run a very nice active system.

Personally I like the Orion sx line. Have a couple 275s and a 250. wouldn't mind picking up a 222 and a 2150 if the price and condition are right at some point.

collecting is a passion thing. I cannot stress enough to keep it within your means. Don't go into debt to collect ANYTHING because it will only cause you problems down the road. Also, most things people collect are not liquid assets, so you can't just go and sell them quickly. You can sell anything quickly, but typically way below its true market value. (i.e. I just sold my condo in 11 days because my job is relocating. I know I could have sold it for more, but how long that would take is a definite unknown)

just my 2 cents


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## tyroneshoes

To the OP. These are good amps but if you dont plan on using them or decorating with them? dont buy them, they have no resale value. 125 an amp is common price for us2150. Some go for under 100.


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## Linear Power

*Re: Monolithic for collection*



mizzuu said:


> Wowww.. awesome power @@
> Is this belong to mqmq? Hehehe...


Hi bro, welcome to this forum hahaha....


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## 1boostup

harman/kardon TC600, harman/kardon CA260, infinity rsa series, kenwood kac1023 /923 and some others mentioned up top ^


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## neuspeedescort

harman/kardon TC600.....WOW!

i had one for near two years and never hooked it up. those amps where beasts!


NEUMAN


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## TrickyRicky

The truth......... is ........ none. Dont collect, because if you just have them stored they will get damage eventually. Dont believe me, I had a bunch in my closet (sold them now) and one of them all of a sudden stopped working. Would of cost me around 150.00 to fix. With help from Perry I fixed it for around 2-3 bucks in parts (a few capacitors, op amp, zener diode) but the problem was just one small capacitor that was about 25cents. 

So I dont think any amplifier is really worth collecting or storing. Nostalgia is hard to resist sometimes but one has to all of the time.


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## ChrisB

TrickyRicky said:


> The truth......... is ........ none. Dont collect, because if you just have them stored they will get damage eventually. Dont believe me, I had a bunch in my closet (sold them now) and one of them all of a sudden stopped working. Would of cost me around 150.00 to fix. With help from Perry I fixed it for around 2-3 bucks in parts (a few capacitors, op amp, zener diode) but the problem was just one small capacitor that was about 25cents.
> 
> So I dont think any amplifier is really worth collecting or storing. Nostalgia is hard to resist sometimes but one has to all of the time.


I see you've come around to my line of thinking! 

On Sunday, I'm doing an "out with the old" sale on eBay. Basically, if I have it and I have no plans to use it, it goes. Period! I may list a couple of things here though, but that depends on my mood!


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## Darth SQ

Yes, everyone get rid of your old Arts.
They're just junk anyways.
I'll be happy to take them off your hands.
I like this idea of out with the old. 

Bret
PPI-ART *COLLECTOR*


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## 1boostup

neuspeedescort said:


> harman/kardon TC600.....WOW!
> 
> i had one for near two years and never hooked it up. those amps where beasts!
> 
> 
> NEUMAN


I have 2 of them and im still using them!! They are beast !!!


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## ChrisB

WRX2010 said:


> Chris, keep in mind that the economy will eventually rebound (look at a century long chart of the Dow 30 and the 25% crash in 1987 doesn't really show up anymore). Those who are buying gold and other overpriced commodities NOW because demand is vastly greater than supply, will most certainly lose money because it is nearly impossible to time price movements. It wasn't that long ago that gold was $200-300 an ounce and OPEC was reducing production to keep oil near $20 a barrel.


Oh, believe me, I know it. There is no way I would buy gold at the outrageous high price that it is going for now. If only I would have purchased gold at $270 ish an ounce back in 2001 when I had the means to do so. Then again, in 1996 I passed on paying $3,000 for a registered, Colt M16 from a family friend, and I could have sold it for close to $20k in 2007. I had all the paperwork signed off on by the Sheriff then backed out at the last second because I thought it was crazy to spend so much on a fully automatic weapon. So needless to say, I made a few investment errors in my lifetime.



WRX2010 said:


> *Collecting amps is a personal decision and everyone is entitled to their opinion.* Each of us has an affinity for one thing or another. I could have bought an incredible home audio system instead of the old school amps I have right now, but I would use that home system about as frequently as I will listen to the old school amps. * For me, it is getting to own amps from when I couldn't afford them and always found them beautiful in design.*
> 
> It could be worse . . . people collect cars that each cost more than most people will make in their lifetime.
> 
> If you want to collect amps, I say do it but don't go beyond your means to afford them and don't expect to make money off them down the road.


At one time, the reasons highlighted in red are why I collected amplifiers. I either wanted things that I couldn't afford from back when I was in high school OR I wanted to run the same exact amplifiers that I did have in high school.

Of course, fast forward to 2008 or 2009 when I started comparing the new to old, I realized that my collecting habits were just a waste of time and money. Don't even get me started on how many of those old school amplifiers needed minor maintenance to MAJOR rebuilding. It was really hard to do the minor stuff myself prior to acquiring a soldering station, oscilloscope, and a 12v power supply SO that was even MORE money to spend on them. By the time all was said and done, it cost me close to $500 to run an old school relic that was 75x2 and easily outperformed by ANY semi-decently designed modern amplifier that cost a fraction of that.

But I'll digress, collect what you want to collect and run what you want to run. At least freedom of choice is one of the few remaining freedoms that we have left! The only problem now is I am wondering how long it will be before the government tries to tax us on choice!:laugh: You know damn well that they would if they could figure out how to.


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## ATOMICTECH62

Adcom
Mcintosh
HiFionics VII,VIII
Earthquake Hohmann series (Silver badge only)
Old Kicker ZR series
Alpine V12's
Orion Xtreme'S
The old white Autotek's
There are some models That stand out,Like the MTX 2300,RF 1100a2,The chrome RF's,PPI A1200,etc...
These are all personal opinions.Some people will think my choices are garbage and vice versa.One mans garbage...
If anybody thinks they will get rich by collecting old school amps for their resale value they will go bankrupt.
The talk about caps leaking or going bad with age are true.I have seen this with my own amps.One channel will sound different than the other,power supply noise,motor noise,protection circuits engaging,and the power supply's exploding.
I have sold off a few for financial reasons only to have them come back bad the next day.
Just this past summer I let a good friend use 3 of my amps, he had to sell his to stay out of jail because of child support.Within 1 week all 3 showed problems.2 of them were Orions 1 was an Autotek.They worked perfect when I put them up about 10 years ago.


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## ryanr7386

What, no A/D/S collectors out there?


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## slipchuck

Made in USA

Channels= 2/1, Watts/Channel 4ohm (.1% THD) 50, or 2ohm(.1% THD) 75, Frequency Response 5Hz-50,000Hz, Bridgeable (Watts/Ch, 4ohm) 150, Load Stability 1ohm, S/N Ratio= 102dB, Tri- Mode Capable..

Key Features

Active Crossovers: High Pass is variable at 20-220Hz, Low Pass is variable at 20-220Hz, HUSH® Noise Reduction, THDL Distortion Limiting, Bass & Treble Controls, Bass Boost (Switchable), Loop Through RCA Jacks, Optional Remote Control

And they rock!


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## sqshoestring

1boostup said:


> harman/kardon TC600, harman/kardon CA260, infinity rsa series, kenwood kac1023 /923 and some others mentioned up top ^


Have a pair of CA260 one still needs fixing, have a CA240 also. Going to try them on the highs some day. Actually had to build my amp rack larger just to fit those hogs. Have a concord TC300 or whatever its called, it runs but something is not right have to fix that. Yes they are big and way overbuilt. That old Harman stuff is great. I screwed with the CA240 quite a while trying to fix it, turned out it was the last solder I checked was dry and it worked fine lol. IIRC they were mid 80s? Quite ancient.

I like a lot of old Alpines, even though they are not that special they are cheaper. I've picked up some 35xx for low as $5 lol. I have a big old MTX USA amp but sold some others I had, this one might be a 2400x I forget.

Price has dropped, so has availability. I never paid much for any of them working or not, sure bid on a lot of them lol.


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## envisionelec

Agreed with some of the sentiment here - don't collect them if you're not going to use them. Electronics that contain electrolytics in pulse-current applications do NOT like to be stored. If you simply MUST collect, do your stuff a favor and power it up once a year.


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## bigdwiz

envisionelec said:


> Agreed with some of the sentiment here - don't collect them if you're not going to use them. Electronics that contain electrolytics in pulse-current applications do NOT like to be stored. If you simply MUST collect, do your stuff a favor and power it up once a year.


Thanks for the reminder...now just need to set aside a couple of weeks to power up all of the gear


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## TrickyRicky

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Yes, everyone get rid of your old Arts.
> They're just junk anyways.
> I'll be happy to take them off your hands.
> I like this idea of out with the old.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART *COLLECTOR*


Not all audioarts are that desireable/wanted, I pretty much had to give away my 70.2x audioart. 



ChrisB said:


> I see you've come around to my line of thinking!
> 
> On Sunday, I'm doing an "out with the old" sale on eBay. Basically, if I have it and I have no plans to use it, it goes. Period! I may list a couple of things here though, but that depends on my mood!


Am also getting rid of 3-4 amplifiers I have on my shelf that am not using or plan on use anytime soon. JL 500/1, Kenwood KAC1023, Sony ES XM5046, Twister F4 240 and an Xterminator 1600.2 . I plan on just keeping one for subs and one four channel for my mids/highs.



envisionelec said:


> Agreed with some of the sentiment here - don't collect them if you're not going to use them. Electronics that contain electrolytics in pulse-current applications do NOT like to be stored. If you simply MUST collect, do your stuff a favor and power it up once a year.


It happen to me it can happen to anyone with old school amplifiers that haven't seen power in years.


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## trojan fan

Monolithic....If you can even find any of them bad boys


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## exoplasm

Here's A question which amps currently being produced might be collectable in the future and why??


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## TrickyRicky

exoplasm said:


> Here's A question which amps currently being produced might be collectable in the future and why??


NONE.


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## Darth SQ

exoplasm said:


> Here's A question which amps currently being produced might be collectable in the future and why??


Good question, but you need to start your own thread for it.

The Soundstream Reference look like a possibility.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## PPI_GUY

Most of the amps currently in my small collection...downsized to around 20 pieces right now...were out of my price range when new. Now, they are almost impossible to find in their current condition. Maybe I am the only one who would want them but, it would take quite awhile and more than alittle money to replace them. That gives them some value. Atleast to me.
The ONLY amps truly worthy of collecting as "investments" are very low production runs or special factory custom editions. The PPI F2500 immediately comes to mind. But, I can think of no regular production "old school" amps that might fetch better than new prices. I am surprised at what some of this stuff is bringing though. Example: the 1st Gen. Orion HCCA's with all their shortcomings still sell pretty close to what the better Gen. II and III stuff brings.


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## slipchuck

Isn't the purpose of a good amp, old school or not, to just amplify the signal without any extra "coloration" of the sound? (for lack of a better term)
besides power and cost, have the new amps gotten that much better as far as transparent sound quality is concerned?

thanks

randy


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## trojan fan

slipchuck said:


> besides power and cost, have the new amps gotten that much better as far as transparent sound quality is concerned?
> 
> thanks
> 
> randy


That would be a very subjective answer to your question.....:snacks:


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## dsuperminime

Hi everyone it could be cool reviving this thread, at least for me 😅😅 .... to see if those that were collecting in that time still collecting today 😬


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## SQ_Bronco

I still have most of my old stuff. I’m sure I have boxes of stuff I haven’t opened since 2012. I keep thinking I’ll put some things up and then get busy with other things…

I did sell all my old zapco stuff when they stopped making things in the US, except a couple of studio 100 and 150s. No regrets from that.


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## dsuperminime

SQ_Bronco said:


> I still have most of my old stuff. I’m sure I have boxes of stuff I haven’t opened since 2012. I keep thinking I’ll put some things up and then get busy with other things…
> 
> I did sell all my old zapco stuff when they stopped making things in the US, except a couple of studio 100 and 150s. No regrets from that.


It happens the same thing to me, that part you wrote of thinking to put somethings up, but I will try to complete at least one of the setup I wanted, 😬


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## rmenergy

dsuperminime said:


> Hi everyone it could be cool reviving this thread, at least for me 😅😅 .... to see if those that were collecting in that time still collecting today 😬


I never posted in the original run of this thread but still have some of my old amps around. I did recently trade away my 6 Monolithic amps for a bunch of home audio(2ch) gear as it gets used & the Monolithics were just sitting in the closet. Still have some old SS D200's, an LP & a MMATS(not that it's a collectable) but actually plan on using them.


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## dsuperminime

SQ_Bronco said:


> I still have most of my old stuff. I’m sure I have boxes of stuff I haven’t opened since 2012. I keep thinking I’ll put some things up and then get busy with other things…
> 
> I did sell all my old zapco stuff when they stopped making things in the US, except a couple of studio 100 and 150s. No regrets from that.





rmenergy said:


> I never posted in the original run of this thread but still have some of my old amps around. I did recently trade away my 6 Monolithic amps for a bunch of home audio(2ch) gear as it gets used & the Monolithics were just sitting in the closet. Still have some old SS D200's, an LP & a MMATS(not that it's a collectable) but actually plan on using them.


😲 Wich Monolithic model you had?


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## rmenergy

dsuperminime said:


> 😲 Wich Monolithic model you had?


4x PA1600, a PA2000M & Class A 804


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## Genesis

Got a ton of old stuff i collect. Everything going in my car is new. New stuff is simply better, imo, old stuff is neat to have for old times sake. I do love my older stuff, and someday itd be neat to do a "vintage" install.. but thats not because i think the old stuff is better.


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## PPI RNR

I love my PPI Power class amps, I’ve had 2 of them in continuous operation since 1997 - PC450 and PC2300.


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