# CES2016



## Victor_inox

Who is going to attend CES this year?
I`m going as usual , flight from Denver to Vegas and back $75 on Frontier.


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## Victor_inox

Nobody,really?

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## jtaudioacc

i haven't missed since 1987.


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## KP

My car was supposed to be in the Zapco booth again but I just can't make it. Maybe next year.


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## benzc230

KP, Only 1,800mi and 26hrs. Just and short road trip. I can tell you all about it.


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## Victor_inox

benzc230 said:


> KP, Only 1,800mi and 26hrs. Just and short road trip. I can tell you all about it.


 why would anyone drive that far when you can fly, rent a car for less money?


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## KP

Car driven or towed would be in the Zapco booth at CES.

I drove it before. Nothing like leaving at 9AM and arriving at 3PM the NEXT day. Drove it straight.


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## Victor_inox

I see 

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## rton20s

I'm still waiting to hear back on room availability. If it works out, it will be my first CES.


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## Justin Zazzi

I'll be there for the first couple days, then I'm flying home.

The real trip will be for ALMA's Winter Symposium though. That runs just a couple days before CES and is just down the street.


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## rton20s

I've got my pass. Still trying to work out travel and a room. :worried:

Flights from Fresno are as cheap as driving, so I'll probably go that route. Still waiting to hear back on several different rooms. 

I plan to arrive on Thursday afternoon and fly out Saturday morning. So, a pretty short trip.


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## Victor_inox

I fly in 5th- flying out 9th evening. Staying with friends, no hotel needed. My friend work for CES- no pass needed.


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## Babs

A golden cardboard cookie for the first sighting of Audiocontrol's new DSP goodies.

And someone please let Kicker know if they want to sell cool new SQ'y products they should get them out on to the market instead of hiding them in brick-n-mortar's. I can buy Focal, Helix, Brax and Audiofrog all day long on Crutchfield, but Kicker Q-Class is too good? hehehehe  Ok.


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## thehatedguy

Might tell you something about how good the Kicker stuff is...


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## Babs

thehatedguy said:


> Might tell you something about how good the Kicker stuff is...


hmm I know right


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## rton20s

Got my flight and room booked. I'm going to have to try and pack a lot into a compressed first CES experience. I'll be arriving Thursday afternoon and flying out Saturday morning. 

I'll be trying to snap some pics and or video with my phone where I can. So besides Scott's request for the AudioControl DSP goods, anything else people want to see?


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## WeDgE

I'm *patiently* waiting to see if there are any 2din HUs that have the features of Pioneer's NEX series with optical out. 

Wanting to replace the 80prs so I can finally have a backup camera and Android integration with no compromise in SQ.


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## truckguy

rton20s said:


> Got my flight and room booked. I'm going to have to try and pack a lot into a compressed first CES experience. I'll be arriving Thursday afternoon and flying out Saturday morning.
> 
> I'll be trying to snap some pics and or video with my phone where I can. So besides Scott's request for the AudioControl DSP goods, anything else people want to see?


Anything OnCore or Audiofrog would greatly be appreciated!


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## 2DEEP2

Well, I got to see some of the things AAMP of America will have at CES.
They will have some very cool products on display. ;-) 

I've already had the experience of JL new Fix processor.

However, I want make it CES :-(


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## 6spdcoupe

I'll be there, as usual, from the 4th-10th.


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## Victor_inox

No audiotec-fischer nor sinfoni listed as exhibitors- lame.


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## 6spdcoupe

Victor_inox said:


> No audiotec-fischer nor sinfoni listed as exhibitors- lame.


And yet they are both exhibiting.


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## Guest

Victor_inox said:


> No audiotec-fischer nor sinfoni listed as exhibitors- lame.


Sinfoni will be there... Spoke to the US Distributor and he's elbow deep getting things ready for CES...


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## Babs

Victor_inox said:


> No audiotec-fischer nor sinfoni listed as exhibitors- lame.



I'd have no doubt AF (edit: or at least their US rep) will be there with bells on. They've had such a big push last few years in the states. I predict new DSP products and maybe new amps and possibly new DSP software. 


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## Victor_inox

SQ_TSX said:


> Sinfoni will be there... Spoke to the US Distributor and he's elbow deep getting things ready for CES...


Perhaps US distributor. AF itself not listed in directory nor Sinfoni.


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## rton20s

Victor_inox said:


> Perhaps US distributor. AF itself not listed in directory nor Sinfoni.


As I understand it, there are a lot of companies "at CES" that aren't at CES. Often times they reserve suites, etc. at nearby hotels and have people come to them.


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## pocket5s

rton20s said:


> As I understand it, there are a lot of companies "at CES" that aren't at CES. Often times they reserve suites, etc. at nearby hotels and have people come to them.


it's a whole lot cheaper than booth space...


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## rton20s

pocket5s said:


> it's a whole lot cheaper than booth space...


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## Mike Bober

Victor_inox said:


> Who is going to attend CES this year?
> I`m going as usual , flight from Denver to Vegas and back $75 on Frontier.


I have never been there before and would love to go maybe next year....can anyone get in to that without being with a company in the electronics business?


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## Victor_inox

rton20s said:


> As I understand it, there are a lot of companies "at CES" that aren't at CES. Often times they reserve suites, etc. at nearby hotels and have people come to them.



many audio companies rent rooms at Hotels but still part of the show,previous years venetian and renaissance hotels were booked by audio companies but still listed as exhibitors.

What is the point of being there if people can`t find you?
I`m all for saving money but it`s get ridiculous.
guess what.... they obviously don`t want more business.


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## jtaudioacc

Victor_inox said:


> many audio companies rent rooms at Hotels but still part of the show,previous years venetian and renaissance hotels were booked by audio companies but still listed as exhibitors.
> 
> What is the point of being there if people can`t find you?
> I`m all for saving money but it`s get ridiculous.
> guess what.... they obviously don`t want more business.


guess it depends on the business model vs. amount of money spent. but yeah, most often, the traffic is going to be very low. but, the traffic that does come through should all be pretty serious.

venitian, westgate, etc are all still part of CES. i think those are the best, less bs traffic. 

i tell you though, it's a pain to have to move around so much just to see one thing.


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## Victor_inox

jtaudioacc said:


> guess it depends on the business model vs. amount of money spent. but yeah, most often, the traffic is going to be very low. but, the traffic that does come through should all be pretty serious.
> 
> venitian, westgate, etc are all still part of CES. i think those are the best, less bs traffic.
> 
> i tell you though, it's a pain to have to move around so much just to see one thing.


What business model that would be? stupid one?
I`m interested in these brands and I can`t find their locations... or location of their distributors. 
It`s irritating.


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## Guest

Victor_inox said:


> What business model that would be? stupid one?
> I`m interested in these brands and I can`t find their locations... or location of their distributors.
> It`s irritating.


Sinfoni will be at the Venetian - Room 30-312

I'm sure Emilios will be happy to see and speak to all comers...


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## jtaudioacc

SQ_TSX said:


> Sinfoni will be at the Venetian - Room 30-312
> 
> I'm sure Emilios will be happy to see and speak to all comers...


tip for the venitian, take the elevators that go to 29, then walk up the stairs. lol
sometimes those elevators are so damn crowded.

if you can't find the others, maybe wander around for some DSD at the Mirage, a Punch amp at Hard Rock as well as some Audiosomething subs, a bit something at the Orleans, FIX at the Palms, etc. etc. 

oh, and some DTS thing in a car across the street. :surprised:


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## robert_wrath

Anything new from Arc Audio with Bob Zeff?


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## Victor_inox

SQ_TSX said:


> Sinfoni will be at the Venetian - Room 30-312
> 
> I'm sure Emilios will be happy to see and speak to all comers...


Are you coming too?


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## Victor_inox

jtaudioacc said:


> tip for the venitian, take the elevators that go to 29, then walk up the stairs. lol
> sometimes those elevators are so damn crowded.
> 
> if you can't find the others, maybe wander around for some DSD at the Mirage, a Punch amp at Hard Rock as well as some Audiosomething subs, a bit something at the Orleans, FIX at the Palms, etc. etc.
> 
> oh, and some DTS thing in a car across the street. :surprised:


 I think I know that hotel as my own house...being there so many times.
Solid advice BTW.


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## Guest

Victor_inox said:


> Are you coming too?


No sir, wish I could. ... too busy at work this time of year....


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## Victor_inox

SQ_TSX said:


> No sir, wish I could. ... too busy at work this time of year....


I`d buy you a drink. but ohhh well..maybe next time.


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## rton20s

jtaudioacc said:


> tip for the venitian, take the elevators that go to 29, then walk up the stairs. lol
> sometimes those elevators are so damn crowded.
> 
> if you can't find the others, maybe wander around for some DSD at the Mirage, a Punch amp at Hard Rock as well as some Audiosomething subs, a bit something at the Orleans, FIX at the Palms, etc. etc.
> 
> oh, and some DTS thing in a car across the street. :surprised:


Any guesses who I am going to attempt to find and tag along with for a bit?


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## cvjoint

jtaudioacc said:


> tip for the venitian, take the elevators that go to 29, then walk up the stairs. lol
> sometimes those elevators are so damn crowded.
> 
> if you can't find the others, maybe wander around for some DSD at the Mirage, a Punch amp at Hard Rock as well as some Audiosomething subs, a bit something at the Orleans, FIX at the Palms, etc. etc.
> 
> oh, and some DTS thing in a car across the street. :surprised:


JT can you let me know if Alpine has a replacement for the H800 or whether Arc has new GH class amps? Any new GH amp or 5.1 processor would fit the install. 

I'm just waiting for the new catalogs to come out at CES before I buy all of these guys.


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## Babs

Someone heard me! Someone heard me!

heres-clarions-hi-res-car-audio-deck/



> Clarion Corporation announced a new navigation deck that *supports Hi-Res Audio FLAC files* and that works with the industry’s first all digital car audio system.
> 
> The new in-dash double DIN NX706 is compatible with Clarion’s new Full Digital Sound Components system that keeps the signal digital through to the speakers without the need for an amplifier or digital-to-audio converters.
> 
> “With the growing trend toward high-resolution lossless audio, we designed the NX706 for customers who want the absolute best possible sound quality from their car audio system,” said Clarion VP Marketing and Product Planning Allen Gharapetian.
> 
> It supports *96kHz audio* and uses *TOSLINK (a standard digital optical connection) output to connect to other components*. It also has a 7-inch WVGA touch screen, HDMI, two USB inputs and a 15-band parametric eq with low pass and high pass filters.
> 
> Users also get Bluetooth, Pandora control and backup camera input with audio. The NX706 is also SiriusXM ready. Suggested retail price is $799.99.
> 
> Clarion’s Gharapetian said of Clarion’s FDS system, “This full digital signal capability from source to speaker is an industry first for aftermarket car audio systems and the sound quality provided by it is breathtaking. To push the envelope further, we implemented an audiophile quality 15-band parametric EQ for our customers to achieve that ‘perfect’ sound.”
> 
> Under the FDS system the digital signal is divided into 6 digital signals that are sent to a digital processor and transferred to a 6 layer voice coil that directly drives the speakers. It incorporates the drive circuit into the speakers so there’s no need for an amplifier.
> 
> The audio signal for each channel in the system remains digital all the way to the voice coil, ensuring that high-resolution digital audio is maintained without loss or added noise and artifacts from analog connections, said Clarion.
> 
> The NX706 and FDS system will be on display at CES January 6-9 at the Westgate Lobby adjacent to the Las Vegas Convention Center. More details on how the FDS system works is expected to be revealed at that time.


http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products-personal/multimedia/NX706/


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## rton20s

Babs said:


> Someone heard me! Someone heard me!
> 
> heres-clarions-hi-res-car-audio-deck/
> 
> 
> 
> Clarion U.S.A | NX706


That is actually quite interesting. I do wonder how it will perform. I'll have to swing by the Clarion booth if I have time. I'll try and get more details about the NX706 and Z3 DSP. Anything specific you're wanting to know Scott?


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## Babs

rton20s said:


> That is actually quite interesting. I do wonder how it will perform. I'll have to swing by the Clarion booth if I have time. I'll try and get more details about the NX706 and Z3 DSP. Anything specific you're wanting to know Scott?


I get the impression no carplay, but the UI looks interesting even if proprietary.

Would love to know if it's a conventional toslink that'd feed _any_ DSP.. Which I think it is.

Is it mechless? I think it might be.. If so fine by me!

I imagine toslink output is non-volume controlled but that'd be one to ask if the unit has a volume attenuation for the toslink output.

Anything you'd find cool about it and wanna report.

JBL just announced also a head unit as well, you might wanna see. Sure enough JBL of all companies.


Oh.. And on that fully digital system.. Being probably the oddest thing, definitely anything you wanna share on it. Clarion has some actually decent info on their site. Man it'd be cool if they have a demo going.

Timeframes.. Would be cool to know when the head unit is going to start rolling out.


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## Victor_inox

Whoever flying today, check your flight status, mine delayed 6 hours due to fog in vegas. Apparently planes still use line of sight for landing...


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## rton20s

Babs said:


> I get the impression no carplay, but the UI looks interesting even if proprietary.
> 
> Would love to know if it's a conventional toslink that'd feed _any_ DSP.. Which I think it is.
> 
> Is it mechless? I think it might be.. If so fine by me!
> 
> I imagine toslink output is non-volume controlled but that'd be one to ask if the unit has a volume attenuation for the toslink output.
> 
> Anything you'd find cool about it and wanna report.
> 
> JBL just announced also a head unit as well, you might wanna see. Sure enough JBL of all companies.
> 
> 
> Oh.. And on that fully digital system.. Being probably the oddest thing, definitely anything you wanna share on it. Clarion has some actually decent info on their site. Man it'd be cool if they have a demo going.
> 
> Timeframes.. Would be cool to know when the head unit is going to start rolling out.


I'm not seeing anything to indicate CarPlay either. It appears that they are just looking at iOS compatibility through USB (audio) and USB+Lighting (audio/video). According to the specs, the unit does have a DVD/CD player! 

I'd be curious how flexible the 15 band parametric is on the head unit. Depending on the resolution, is could actually be a viable option for people that want to make minor adjust to their tune without having to fire up the laptop for the DSP. (Yes, Richard, I know that the C800 can on the fly adjustments for the H800 without the need of a laptop. )

I saw the JBL unit on FB. That was pretty interesting as well. I'd like to get some details on it. 
JBL Returns to the Dash with $399 CarPlay | ceoutlook.com


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## rton20s

And hey, while we're on the site, why not an info dump from CE Outlook?

We're all wasting our time. No more need for our fancy DSPs and hours of tuning...
A New Car EQ is More Intelligent | ceoutlook.com

JL is getting into the head unit game! The marine head unit game...
JL Audio Intros a Marine Audio Deck | ceoutlook.com

Audiofrog's A-2450 DSP as discussed in other threads...
Audiofrog Shows 24-Channel DSP Prototype | ceoutlook.com

Rockford and Audiotec Fischer are breaking up. RF will let AF hang around until they find a new place to live...
Rockford Ends Partnership With Brax, Helix | ceoutlook.com

Who is ready to work on spreadsheets while doing 80 down the freeway?
Harman Plans Microsoft Office for the Car | ceoutlook.com

Oh Harman, what are you thinking. Who needs actual car audio when you can just use a gigantic "portable bluetooth speaker" in your car?
Harman Shows Portable Audio System for Cars | ceoutlook.com

Phoenix Gold is getting in on the vehicle specific solutions game...
Phoenix Intros BMW-Specific System | ceoutlook.com

Phoenix Gold is also jumping into the DSP game. Not a lot of details, but it looks like it has a 30 band 1/3 octave parametric EQ and can stream high res audio over wifi.
Phoenix Gold Intros Its First Hi-Res Audio Car DSP | ceoutlook.com

That is probably enough for now.


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## Babs

rton20s said:


> I'm not seeing anything to indicate CarPlay either. It appears that they are just looking at iOS compatibility through USB (audio) and USB+Lighting (audio/video). According to the specs, the unit does have a DVD/CD player!
> 
> I'd be curious how flexible the 15 band parametric is on the head unit. Depending on the resolution, is could actually be a viable option for people that want to make minor adjust to their tune without having to fire up the laptop for the DSP. (Yes, Richard, I know that the C800 can on the fly adjustments for the H800 without the need of a laptop. )
> 
> I saw the JBL unit on FB. That was pretty interesting as well. I'd like to get some details on it.
> JBL Returns to the Dash with $399 CarPlay | ceoutlook.com


Saw HERE the Clarion has *switch-able* fixed or variable volume on the toslink.



> Optical Digital Output for System Upgradability
> 
> Thanks to the optical digital output, it is possible to use an optical cable to connect to external units such as Full Digital Sound units or DSP devices to upgrade your system to digital. Connecting the center unit to Full Digital Sound units enables you to enjoy cutting-edge high-quality digital sound. And since the output can be set to Fixed or Variable, you can maximize the volume of the source unit and adjust it at the processor, or finely adjust volume directly at the source unit.


And looks like it utilizes the Apple AV adapter for dual outputs from iDevice.. HDMI and USB via lightning. Could fab up a nice unseen harness easy enough for it in the dash or console.

CEOutlook says MSRP $799.99. Saw somewhere else $999.99. While all are a bit high, if it brings it as far as fidelity goes, has a good quick processor for the UI, it may be competitive.


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## Beckerson1

Full digital to voice coil. Very interesting


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## Babs

Beckerson1 said:


> Full digital to voice coil. Very interesting


Yeah some serious star trek stuff there.


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## brandont

Victor_inox said:


> Whoever flying today, check your flight status, mine delayed 6 hours due to fog in vegas. Apparently planes still use line of sight for landing...


I wonder why all of a sudden, I still hear them flying around here. Hopefully your flights takes off soon.


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## rton20s

Babs said:


> Saw HERE the Clarion has *switch-able* fixed or variable volume on the toslink.


That would indicate that it probably will be compatible with other DSPs with optical input. 



Babs said:


> And looks like it utilizes the Apple AV adapter for dual outputs from iDevice.. HDMI and USB via lightning. Could fab up a nice unseen harness easy enough for it in the dash or console.
> 
> CEOutlook says MSRP $799.99. Saw somewhere else $999.99. While all are a bit high, if it brings it as far as fidelity goes, has a good quick processor for the UI, it may be competitive.


I'm curious is you will be able to control the phone from the HU touch screen when using the lightning to HDMI adapter. I know on the Pioneer (I think NEX) units when you connect this way, you are just mirroring your screen and have no control of the device from the HU. BIG negative, in my book. 

Street prices are usually lower than MSRP as well. If this thing actually performs well and isn't laggy like the NX702 was reported to be, it will be quite a steel. Especially considering navigation comes along for the ride.


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## Hoptologist

rton20s said:


> That is probably enough for now.


Will you be going to the Focal booth? Interested in any info on the Kevlar line redesign, especially the subs.


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## cvjoint

I think the trick with Clarion's all digital system is to understand that there is all sorts of conversion in the digital domain. But it is a step in the right direction. Doesn't seem flexible enough for me and I've had my share of beta testing. Maybe in a few years...


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## rton20s

Hoptologist said:


> Will you be going to the Focal booth? Interested in any info on the Kevlar line redesign, especially the subs.


I was planning to get by Orca's suite. I guess they are separate from Focal. If I have time, I'll try and swing by Focal.


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## 6spdcoupe

rton20s said:


> I was planning to get by Orca's suite. I guess they are separate from Focal. If I have time, I'll try and swing by Focal.


Orca (Focal mobile) and Focal (home and media) are separate entities here. Focal is always in the Venetian and Orca is in Westgate. One suite for Mosconi/Illusion and the other for Focal. If looking at Focal home/media then it would be with Audio Plus Services which is the US distributor for the products.


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## rton20s

6spdcoupe said:


> Orca (Focal mobile) and Focal (home and media) are separate entities here. Focal is always in the Venetian and Orca is in Westgate. One suite for Mosconi/Illusion and the other for Focal. If looking at Focal home/media then it would be with Audio Plus Services which is the US distributor for the products.


Thanks for the correction Don! In that case, I should be able to check out the Focal stuff for you David.


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## Beckerson1

cvjoint said:


> I think the trick with Clarion's all digital system is to understand that there is all sorts of conversion in the digital domain. But it is a step in the right direction. Doesn't seem flexible enough for me and I've had my share of beta testing. Maybe in a few years...


Agreed. While it's a cool thought that they could achieve all digital to a voice coil that severely limits the user for a period of time till other options become available. It's a cool thought and would be cool to see where they take it.


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## Victor_inox

Beckerson1 said:


> Agreed. While it's a cool thought that they could achieve all digital to a voice coil that severely limits the user for a period of time till other options become available. It's a cool thought and would be cool to see where they take it.


All digital to VC is theoretically impossible. How you people can buy into such nonsense.


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## ErinH

Babs said:


> Someone heard me! Someone heard me!
> 
> heres-clarions-hi-res-car-audio-deck/
> 
> 
> 
> Clarion U.S.A | NX706


huh.... that might be cool as a replacement for my headunit (not at all interested in this digital to voice coil stuff). I will have to keep tabs on this.


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## Babs

ErinH said:


> huh.... that might be cool. I will have to keep tabs on this.



I know right!


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pocket5s

You mean pulses of light won't make that metal surrounded by more metal move?

This is the 21st century, surely it can...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Focused4door

Victor_inox said:


> All digital to VC is theoretically impossible. How you people can buy into such nonsense.



There are filtereless class D amplifiers on the market (albeit not high end), the voice coil inductance filters the high frequencies.

I am skeptical but intrigued.


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## Babs

Focused4door said:


> There are filtereless class D amplifiers on the market (albeit not high end), the voice coil inductance filters the high frequencies.
> 
> 
> 
> I am skeptical but intrigued.



Yeah that'll be some technology I'll root for but I'm also skeptical. Until someone chimes in and says "boys it's a game-changer, I heard it". 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Beckerson1

Victor_inox said:


> All digital to VC is theoretically impossible. How you people can buy into such nonsense.


Who said I buy into it? Who said it's impossible?

I bet if you asked someone way back when that audio would travel on light they would call BS. 

It's just interesting. Just like tube amps are interesting. Doesn't mean I buy into the hype. To each there own


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## Victor_inox

Beckerson1 said:


> Who said I buy into it? Who said it's impossible?
> 
> I bet if you asked someone way back when that audio would travel on light they would call BS.
> 
> It's just interesting. Just like tube amps are interesting. Doesn't mean I buy into the hype. To each there own


I said so, if you think about it for a second you should be able too.
If you fail I can explain further but please try first.
Audio doesn`t travel on light, information is. it could be audio if receiver talk to transmitter.


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## Beckerson1

Victor_inox said:


> I said so, if you think about it for a second you should be able too.
> If you fail I can explain further but please try first.
> Audio doesn`t travel on light, information is. it could be audio if receiver talk to transmitter.



Fair enough poor choice of wording. Hey I won't say at some point it can't be so.


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## benny z

I don't care who you are...that's sexy.










...and that's insane! Lmao!










I swear that car looks kinda familiar... 










Oh, 2-seat you say? Touché!










Those crazy HAT kids, at it again.


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## thebookfreak58

I wonder why the Clarion unit doesn't have CarPlay?

Seems like a must have feature to me?


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## Victor_inox

Back to CES..... my flight finally leaving.damn 7 hours delay.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Beckerson1 said:


> Fair enough poor choice of wording. Hey I won't say at some point it can't be so.


As soon as you install implants in you head transmitting signal directly to your brain-sure.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## rton20s

rton20s said:


> Phoenix Gold is also jumping into the DSP game. Not a lot of details, but it looks like it has a 30 band 1/3 octave parametric EQ and can stream high res audio over wifi.
> Phoenix Gold Intros Its First Hi-Res Audio Car DSP | ceoutlook.com


Apparently, Phoenix Gold "partnered" with Rainbow to develop this DSP. So, likely a rebadge. You can probably look at the Rainbow DSP info to see what the capabilities are likely to be.


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## Babs

thebookfreak58 said:


> I wonder why the Clarion unit doesn't have CarPlay?
> 
> Seems like a must have feature to me?



Licensing cost. Their main purpose of the head unit design was to mate up to their new DSP, so it was easier to do their own UI and less expensive rather than the cost to develop a licensed CarPlay and Android Auto interface. 

While the concept is nice, it's not crucial if the UI they used is decent enough and not laggy, which remains to be seen. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rton20s

Babs said:


> Licensing cost. Their main purpose of the head unit design was to mate up to their new DSP, so it was easier to do their own UI and less expensive rather than the cost to develop a licensed CarPlay and Android Auto interface.
> 
> While the concept is nice, it's not crucial if the UI they used is decent enough and not laggy, which remains to be seen.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


I had the same thought. I do think though, as Apple Car Play and Android Auto become more ubiquitous in OE applications, Clarion will have to strongly consider inclusion in future models. Even if it does mean a bump in cost. 

The lag and overall user experience is going to be make or break for Clarion. This isn't 2006, it is 2016. EVERYONE who will be considering purchasing a head unit like this has had significant exposure to excellent touch screens and touch-centric UIs.


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## SQram

Victor_inox said:


> All digital to VC is theoretically impossible. How you people can buy into such nonsense.





Victor_inox said:


> I said so, if you think about it for a second you should be able too.
> If you fail I can explain further but please try first.
> Audio doesn`t travel on light, information is. it could be audio if receiver talk to transmitter.



Digital isn't just a "light" protocol, I assume you're familiar with digital coax, USB, Ethernet, etc.? 

Forming an AC waveform by firing multiple on/off fixed voltage pulses (digital) has been around for decades (google pulse-density modulation and pulse-width modulation).



An example of using PWM to modulate an AC waveform to an inductor (which is what a voice coil is) is a variable frequency drive in the electrical world. A VFD creates a synthetic AC waveform by modulating the width of "digital pulses" (at a much higher magnitude depending on the horsepower requirements). This is how speed is controlled on AC motors (which use inductors to drive an armature, similar to an inductor driving a cone).

This is just a guess, but I bet that is why Clarion is using 6 voice coils, multiple coils allow modulation of the output, and PDM allows for modulation of the frequency. All digital.


----------



## Victor_inox

SQram said:


> Digital isn't just a "light" protocol, I assume you're familiar with digital coax, USB, Ethernet, etc.?
> 
> Forming an AC waveform by firing multiple on/off fixed voltage pulses (digital) has been around for decades (google pulse-density modulation and pulse-width modulation).
> 
> 
> 
> An example of using PWM to modulate an AC waveform to an inductor (which is what a voice coil is) is a variable frequency drive in the electrical world. A VFD creates a synthetic AC waveform by modulating the width of "digital pulses" (at a much higher magnitude depending on the horsepower requirements). This is how speed is controlled on AC motors (which use inductors to drive an armature, similar to an inductor driving a cone).
> 
> This is just a guess, but I bet that is why Clarion is using 6 voice coils, multiple coils allow modulation of the output, and PDM allows for modulation of the frequency. All digital.


Yeah yeah.... I know but it's not digital.
Switchers being around for decades,they not digital. 
Just another marketing BS. 
AC waveform is by definition analog,jeez.   

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## gckless

Tony D'Amore is releasing some amps in a demo SUV. He says they will be "high-end Class A dual monoblocks".

Thread here: D'Amore Engineering Demo Vehicle Build + Amps Pic Thread - D'Amore Engineering - High Quality Car Audio Installation Tools & Accessories - SMD Forum

Anyone catch those?


----------



## gckless

Well, ask and ye shall receive lol.

D'Amore Engineering Introduces High Performance Car Audio Amplifiers! - D'Amore Engineering - High Quality Car Audio Installation Tools & Accessories - SMD Forum

"For Immediate Release

D'Amore Engineering Introduces High Performance Car Audio Amplifiers!

Gilbert, AZ - January 6th, 2016

D'Amore Engineering proudly announces the introduction of high performance car audio amplifiers! These amplifiers have been designed to provide the most faithful reproduction of the audio signal possible. The very first model to be introduced is the A1500.2, a two channel stereo amplifier rated at 325 Watts RMS per channel into 4 Ohms and 900 Watts RMS per channel into 1 Ohm.

To schedule an appointment to audition the amplifier in person please contact us at (480) 612-4741. We will be providing in-vehicle demonstrations at the Orleans Hotel during CES, 2016.

The A1500.2 is a True Dual Mono Design providing better stereo separation and imaging as compared to traditional stereo amplifiers - the chassis being the only thing common between channels. In an effort to provide the very best signal to noise ratio and lowest distortion possible, 109 dB (A-weighted) and <.002% THD+N (when operated in Class A) respectively, the amplifier utilizes a Mirror Image Design with positive and negative output signals of each channel generated using identically mirrored circuitry. Each of the two channels is also a mirror image of the other. In addition, the A1500.2 offers Selectable Mode Design with both Class AB and True Class A modes of operation available. The execution of Class A topology is unlike anything that has been done in a mobile application to date, offering a realism and truth to the source never before available from a mobile power amplifier.

From a design standpoint, the A1500.2 utilizes separate PCBs for the voltage amplification stage and current amplification stage to maximize the signal to noise ratio so that it's dead silent. It has been designed from the ground up around the highest quality components available at any cost, including; Nichicon Fine Gold™ capacitors, Nichicon Muse™ audio capacitors, (14) On-Semiconductor complementary bipolar junction transistors per channel, and non-inductive resistors, all assembled on 4-layer heavy copper PCBs! Its dual mono channels can be wired as a single channel with double the output voltage for applications where high power is required. Finally, it includes a pair of gorgeous LED output meters to indicate actual amplifier power for each channel.

Pricing not yet determined at the time of this press release.

"We are D'Amore Engineering. We share your passion for high quality sound reproduction. We are not slaves to corporate America, spreadsheets, price points, or bean counters. We proudly introduce the finest automotive amplifiers that have ever been. Period. We have spared no expense - thousands of hours of development time, a tireless quest for the finest parts in existence, and exhaustive engineering in an effort to achieve the most from the least. Our amplifiers will re-define your expectations of high performance audio - they have ours. They say the perfect audio amplifier is a straight wire with gain. We've come close. You're formally invited to come and see for yourself." Tony D'Amore, CEO - D'Amore Engineering

About D'Amore Engineering

D'Amore Engineering was founded in Southern California in 2011 by Tony D'Amore and Juan Rodriguez, two audio / electrical engineers with a passion for quality products. Tony D'Amore has designed and engineered numerous high profile products during his career. He earned a patent while employed with Rockford Fosgate and another is pending for the SMD DD-1 Distortion Detector, a product developed in conjunction with Steve Meade. D'Amore Engineering is known best for their line of audio measurement and calibration equipment developed specifically for car audio enthusiasts and professionals - the very best available at any price. For more information visit damoreengineering.com"


----------



## pocket5s

funny that the press release is on that forum, which is largely dedicated to people who couldn't care less about a, a/b, dual a and all that other fancy sq talk lol.

I realized he's associated with Steve, but still


----------



## rton20s

pocket5s said:


> funny that the press release is on that forum, which is largely dedicated to people who couldn't care less about a, a/b, dual a and all that other fancy sq talk lol.
> 
> I realized he's associated with Steve, but still


Yep. Back scratching, I'm sure. It will drive traffic to Steve's site.


----------



## gckless

rton20s said:


> Yep. Back scratching, I'm sure. It will drive traffic to Steve's site.


That's basically it. That's the forum he lives on.

More photos:


----------



## Babs

That amp does look redonkulous! If he scales down some reasonably sized multi-channels (2, 4 etc), that might be serious business even for us SQ dudes. I imagine he'll be sticking to huge, massive, SPL'ish, hellish, but I think it'd be unfortunate to not tap into the SQ bunch with some class-A goodness.


----------



## gckless

Babs said:


> That amp does look redonkulous! If he scales down some reasonably sized multi-channels (2, 4 etc), that might be serious business even for us SQ dudes. I imagine he'll be sticking to huge, massive, SPL'ish, hellish, but I think it'd be unfortunate to not tap into the SQ bunch with some class-A goodness.


Not sure if he can scale it down much, but should be able to get those in the same package. Willing to bet heat dissipation is an issue running Class A, so he needs those big heatsinks, and since he's probably going to keep that chassis design (heatsinks on the board instead of just using the chassis as the heatsink) then he has less board space. I love lines of amps that are all the same size personally, makes good-looking installs much easier.

They look promising in any event. Price will determine sales here.


----------



## rton20s

And while we're talking about potential new amps on the horizon, many probably haven't seen what Bernie Boland (PPI/Orion) has been cooking up...

https://www.facebook.com/Boland-Audio-457346177782003/

For those averse to Facebook, a couple of photos...


----------



## SQram

Victor_inox said:


> Yeah yeah.... I know but it's not digital.
> Switchers being around for decades,they not digital.
> Just another marketing BS.
> AC waveform is by definition analog,jeez.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk




I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of digital:






The Clarion gear is completely digital to to coils. There is a conversion happenening in the "processor" from digital audio format to a PDM format to the coils, but it's all digital. See definition above.


----------



## Victor_inox

SQram said:


> I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of digital:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Clarion gear is completely digital to to coils. There is a conversion happenening in the "processor" from digital audio format to a PDM format to the coils, but it's all digital. See definition above.


I'll belive it when I see schematics.but I doubt it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

Victor, have you gone by the Clarion booth to check it out in person? I know you're at CES this week.


----------



## Victor_inox

Not yet but I'll be there.my flight was delayed til 3am tonight.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

Victor_inox said:


> Not yet but I'll be there.my flight was delayed til 3am tonight.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


I'm hoping not to see delays tomorrow. :worried: I'll be short timing it as it is.


----------



## Victor_inox

Right now weather is perfect. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

rton20s said:


> And while we're talking about potential new amps on the horizon, many probably haven't seen what Bernie Boland (PPI/Orion) has been cooking up...
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Boland-Audio-457346177782003/
> 
> For those averse to Facebook, a couple of photos...


 Wow!


----------



## rton20s

Dump Day Number 2.

Kenwood is focusing on CarPlay, Android Auto, High Res Audio and Radar connectivity for the 2016 head units. No mention of optical out, we'll have to check the specs...
CarPlay Sweeps Kenwood Lineup | ceoutlook.com
First car radio that can display radar detector info | ceoutlook.com

More entry level ($399) CarPlay and Android Auto options from Jensen...
More $399 CarPlay Decks Debut at CES | ceoutlook.com

Looks like just some iDatalink upgrades for Pioneer's 2016 HU range...
Pioneer Intros NEX Car Radios: CarPlay | ceoutlook.com

There are some power sports products from JL and Rockford Fosgate as well.


----------



## rton20s

Babs said:


> Wow!


Yeah, and they will not be cheap. Made in the USA. I think there was a post on the FB page about June delivery.

I thought the modular case design idea was pretty slick. From what I can tell the amp is shown on the bottom middle. Then from left to right we have the following cooling options...

Passive Cooling "Classic" Heatsink | Active Water Cooling | Active Fan Cooling | Passive Cooling "Modern" Heatsink



rton20s said:


>


Edit: Correction on the the use of the heatsinks. "classic" and "modern" are my terms. Not Boland's.


----------



## bgalaxy

benny z said:


> I don't care who you are...that's sexy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and that's insane! Lmao!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear that car looks kinda familiar...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, 2-seat you say? Touché!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those crazy HAT kids, at it again.


She is sexy. I wished I got to hear her before she left.


----------



## Babs

Audiocontrol booth... Any fingerprints on their new goods? Some cool stuff looks like coming from the great northwest. DSP/amps etc. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SQram

Victor_inox said:


> I'll belive it when I see schematics.but I doubt it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk



That's because you're stuck in the 40's designing tube amps.

It's not hard to fathom, as I mentioned earlier variable frequency drives have been around for years in the electrical world, they've just adopted the switching output to an audio signal, or in this case, multiple audio signals to multiple coils to control amplitude.


----------



## THEDUKE

Looks like Hi-Resolution files are the big thing at CES. New Kenwood Navigation units with Carplay and Android Auto will play FLAC files up to 192K/24Bit. DTA, 13 Band EQ and Crossovers built in.


----------



## Victor_inox

SQram said:


> That's because you're stuck in the 40's designing tube amps.
> 
> It's not hard to fathom, as I mentioned earlier variable frequency drives have been around for years in the electrical world, they've just adopted the switching output to an audio signal, or in this case, multiple audio signals to multiple coils to control amplitude.


I'm also design D class amps,a class amps and everything in between.
You can call it digital but it's not.
Human hearing is analog by nature.
Speaker cone produce analog waves.
Your condescending tone is amusing.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Use of word digital remind me of "turbo" in 80th.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/243689-audio-controls-dsp-fullrange-amps.html


----------



## SQram

Victor_inox said:


> I'm also design D class amps,a class amps and everything in between.
> You can call it digital but it's not.
> Human hearing is analog by nature.
> Speaker cone produce analog waves.
> Your condescending tone is amusing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk



So the Clarion gear is vaporware because you don't agree with the definition of digital?

Explain the difference between a digital signal which looks like:

01011101000110010100111001010101001111100101010010101010101010101010010101010010011

And:

0101101111111111111101101010010000000000000100010011011101111111111111011010100100000000000000100101 (which approximates an AC waveform).


----------



## ErinH

awwww snap! the nerd-war has begun!!!!!


----------



## SQram




----------



## rton20s

Looks like JL has a new line of class D amps as well. Not a ton of detail, but it looks likes these will fall somewhere below XD in their lineup. 

Home - 12 Volt News - Delivering Fresh 12 Volt News Since 199412 Volt News – Delivering Fresh 12 Volt News Since 1994 | 12 Volt News is an industry publication showcasing the people, manufacturers, retailers, events and products of the mobile e


----------



## Victor_inox

Where did I said anything about vaporware? Don't place words in my mouth and please chill the (edited) out!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## SQram

Victor_inox said:


> All digital to VC is theoretically impossible. How you people can buy into such nonsense.



You forget posting this?

And I'm plenty chilled, just tired of you (edited) in all the other manufactures threads...


----------



## Justin Zazzi

How about the two of you take your conversation to PMs.
Thank you.


----------



## Victor_inox

SQram said:


> You forget posting this?
> 
> And I'm plenty chilled, just tired of you ****ting in all the other manufactures threads...


Just can't stand marketing ********,
and brainless fanboyism. 
You don't like my posts?
Add me to your ignore list and never see them again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

rton20s said:


> Looks like JL has a new line of class D amps as well. Not a ton of detail, but it looks likes these will fall somewhere below XD in their lineup.
> 
> 
> 
> Home - 12 Volt News - Delivering Fresh 12 Volt News Since 199412 Volt News – Delivering Fresh 12 Volt News Since 1994 | 12 Volt News is an industry publication showcasing the people, manufacturers, retailers, events and products of the mobile e



Those are sexy little amps! And still keeping with the diff-balanced inputs. Nicely done!


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Golden Ear

rton20s said:


> Yeah, and they will not be cheap. Made in the USA. I think there was a post on the FB page about June delivery.
> 
> I thought the modular case design idea was pretty slick. From what I can tell the amp is shown on the bottom middle. Then from left to right we have the following cooling options...
> 
> Passive Cooling "Classic" Heatsink | Active Water Cooling | Active Fan Cooling | Passive Cooling "Modern" Heatsink
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Correction on the the use of the heatsinks. "classic" and "modern" are my terms. Not Boland's.


Cool. They're kinda futuristic looking to me.


----------



## AAAAAAA

That new JL line is very aesthetically pleasing.

JBL is also coming out with a head unit. didn't see that coming. Called the legend CP100.
Someone posted it in another thread.
http://www.jbl.com/connected-car/CP100+LEGEND.html


----------



## dallasneon

WTF is this ****? HAHA! I'd be embarrassed if I worked for Epsilon.


----------



## Victor_inox

dallasneon said:


> WTF is this ****? HAHA! I'd be embarrassed if I worked for Epsilon.


Rebadged mosconi for half the money.
Mosconi is officially dead for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## benny z

wow.


----------



## gckless

Wow, I really thought that was fake until I googled it. That's genuinely jaw-dropping.


----------



## dallasneon

Nope, its legit.

Power Acoutik Releases Edge Amps at CES


----------



## Victor_inox

How let's hope that direct guts replacement would be not possible.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Hammer1

Victor_inox said:


> Rebadged mosconi for half the money.
> Mosconi is officially dead for me.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Looks to me that they tried to copy the Mosconi case. I highly doubt it is a rebadged Mosconi. The plastic covers are different and Mosconi does not put the Rca jacks and power on the ends of the amps


----------



## Victor_inox

Hammer1 said:


> Looks to me that they tried to copy the Mosconi case. I highly doubt it is a rebadged Mosconi. The plastic covers are different and Mosconi does not put the Rca jacks and power on the ends of the amps


I'm glad you noticed that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

dallasneon said:


> WTF is this ****? HAHA! I'd be embarrassed if I worked for Epsilon.


Goes to show you what Epsilon thinks of our intelligence and the buyers they're attracted to.. For this travesty, all their brands are dead to me. They are:
http://epsilonelectronicsinc.com/brands.html

Any company that will do a K-mart Kopy of a high-end product in obviously a low-end POS, deserves zero cred, anywhere and especially not here.

Sorry.. I don't usually go full-sideways, but when I do, I leave the cheap mexican beer for the guests.


----------



## Accordman

AAAAAAA said:


> That new JL line is very aesthetically pleasing.
> 
> JBL is also coming out with a head unit. didn't see that coming. Called the legend CP100.
> Someone posted it in another thread.
> Legend CP100 - JBL US


kinda reminds me of the parrot carplay piece


----------



## dallasneon

Hammer1 said:


> Looks to me that they tried to copy the Mosconi case. I highly doubt it is a rebadged Mosconi. The plastic covers are different and Mosconi does not put the Rca jacks and power on the ends of the amps









lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

IMHO mosconi Amps are fugliest amps on the market. PA Fail!


----------



## Victor_inox

Mosconi took rectangular profile aluminum tube and machined openings for plastic covers.smart design.side mounted rca/etc is good move,mosconi rca sucked anyway. I doubt epsilon designed this one by themselves. Resemblance is too strong.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## hot9dog

dallasneon said:


> WTF is this ****? HAHA! I'd be embarrassed if I worked for Epsilon.


And we all pause for a second and close our eyes. ... waiting for the implosion of the earth's core. Just before dying we here.."and this apocalypse was brought to by Epsilon " (in a deep announcers voice)


----------



## benny z

Look at all the exposure it's getting. Right here, right now.


----------



## Victor_inox

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## robert_wrath

dallasneon said:


> WTF is this ****? HAHA! I'd be embarrassed if I worked for Epsilon.


*I can't stop laughing! *


----------



## PPI_GUY

Babs said:


> Those are sexy little amps! And still keeping with the diff-balanced inputs. Nicely done!


I wonder if the RD amps will be replacing the JX series? Looks like they may be intended to compete with JBL's EZ series as they include current sensing and clipping indicators. If they sound as good as the XD series, JL may have just owned the budget SQ market. 

Also of note from the press release...

_"Circuit design for the RD project was led by JL Audio’s *Senior Amplifier Engineer, Bruce Macmillan*, and is based on JL Audio’s highly successful NexD™ Class D technology, which delivers outstanding sound quality, efficiency and reliability."_


----------



## PPI_GUY

benny z said:


> Look at all the exposure it's getting. Right here, right now.


Can't imagine it's the kind of exposure Epsilon is looking for though. 
Even with the flagrant ripped off design, that is one seriously ugly looking piece of crap. Full disclosure...I never liked the look of the real deal either.

Glad I never gave in to peer pressure (LOL) and bought one of the new PPI amps. Closest thing to OG PPI is JL Audio. No more pretending.


----------



## robert_wrath

Any word on new HU from Alpine or Pioneer? What about Zapco or Audison?


----------



## brandont

robert_wrath said:


> Any word on new HU from Alpine or Pioneer? What about Zapco or Audison?


All i saw in Alpine's booth was more direct fit kits for trucks for their 9" Nav units. I believe they are on Crutchfield already; disappointing booth yet again from Alpine.


----------



## robert_wrath

robert_wrath said:


> Any word on new HU from Alpine or Pioneer? What about Zapco or Audison?





brandont said:


> All i saw in Alpine's booth was more *direct fit kits for trucks for their 9" Nav units*. I believe they are on Crutchfield already; disappointing booth yet again from Alpine.


Yeah I saw that on the Alpine site too.


----------



## Babs

robert_wrath said:


> Any word on new HU from Alpine or Pioneer? What about Zapco or Audison?


iDatalink and more bells/whistles.. That's about it.
Still conventional stuff.. 4100-8100NEX's become 4200/8200 yay.

Alpine now has the biggest carplay unit. 
So it's all about the proprietary expensive car-specific fitment and to Alpine, size matters.


----------



## gumbeelee

Babs said:


> Goes to show you what Epsilon thinks of our intelligence and the buyers they're attracted to.. For this travesty, all their brands are dead to me. They are:
> Epsilon Electronics Inc - Brands
> 
> Any company that will do a K-mart Kopy of a high-end product in obviously a low-end POS, deserves zero cred, anywhere and especially not here.
> 
> Sorry.. I don't usually go full-sideways, but when I do, I leave the cheap mexican beer for the guests.


^^^^^^2nd that post!!


----------



## gumbeelee

Has anyone seen anything on the audison bitone HD? Really Interested in it


----------



## WeDgE

Babs said:


> iDatalink and more bells/whistles.. That's about it.
> Still conventional stuff.. 4100-8100NEX's become 4200/8200 yay.
> 
> Alpine now has the biggest carplay unit.
> So it's all about the proprietary expensive car-specific fitment and to Alpine, size matters.


Was really hoping to see optical out on Pioneer and Alpine. 

Looks like it'll be the new Clarion for me.


----------



## robert_wrath

Any break thru product from Kenwood?


----------



## dallasneon

robert_wrath said:


> Any break thru product from Kenwood?


Only thing I seen from Kenwood that was kinda interesting was the K40 radar detector integration. But that's probably not what you're looking for.


----------



## robert_wrath

robert_wrath said:


> Any break thru product from Kenwood?





dallasneon said:


> Only thing I seen from Kenwood that was kinda interesting was the K40 radar detector integration. But that's probably not what you're looking for.


Interested, care to elaborate?


----------



## dallasneon

robert_wrath said:


> Interested, care to elaborate?


All I know about it.

http://www.ceoutlook.com/2016/01/07/heres-the-first-radar-detector-to-work-with-car-radios/

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## robert_wrath

dallasneon said:


> All I know about it.
> 
> Here’s the First Radar Detector to Work With Car Radios | ceoutlook.com
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Hoptologist

Focal posted some pics 4 hours ago, https://www.facebook.com/FocalAmerica/?fref=ts

Very interested in how the K2 subs will compare with the Flax subs.


----------



## cvjoint

Are there any new processors with digital inputs and surround sound? A new Alpine H800? Is there an Alpine catalog for 2016 out?


----------



## Darth SQ

rton20s said:


> As I understand it, there are a lot of companies "at CES" that aren't at CES. Often times they reserve suites, etc. at nearby hotels and have people come to them.


Yeah it must be prohibitively expensive cuz missing out on the main building traffic doesn't make sense.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Darth SQ

rton20s said:


> Yeah, and they will not be cheap. Made in the USA. I think there was a post on the FB page about June delivery.
> 
> I thought the modular case design idea was pretty slick. From what I can tell the amp is shown on the bottom middle. Then from left to right we have the following cooling options...
> 
> Passive Cooling "Classic" Heatsink | Active Water Cooling | Active Fan Cooling | Passive Cooling "Modern" Heatsink
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Correction on the the use of the heatsinks. "classic" and "modern" are my terms. Not Boland's.


I'll believe it when I see it.
Everything posted on his fb page so far is all CAD.
Plus Orion might have some say on whether the red amp is a copyright infringement or not. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Darth SQ

PPI_GUY said:


> Can't imagine it's the kind of exposure Epsilon is looking for though.
> Even with the flagrant ripped off design, that is one seriously ugly looking piece of crap. Full disclosure...I never liked the look of the real deal either.
> 
> Glad I never gave in to peer pressure (LOL) and bought one of the new PPI amps. Closest thing to OG PPI is JL Audio. No more pretending.


^^^nailed it^^^


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## robert_wrath

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.
> Everything posted on his fb page so far is all CAD.
> Plus *Orion might have some say on whether the red amp is a copyright infringement or not.
> *
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


I doubt ever so highly Orion patent the Red Shell Design. Look what happened with the Mosconi shell - Power Acoustic Rebadged that ****!


----------



## Darth SQ

robert_wrath said:


> I doubt ever so highly Orion patent the Red Shell Design. Look what happened with the Mosconi shell - Power Acoustic Rebadged that ****!


You might be right.

Amplifiers - Orion Car Audio


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## PPI_GUY

robert_wrath said:


> I doubt ever so highly Orion patent the Red Shell Design. Look what happened with the Mosconi shell - Power Acoustic Rebadged that ****!


Speaking of Orion, anything interesting from them at CES? Maybe a new 20,000,000,000 watt HCCA amp or a sub that only functions at 51Hz?

So sad what has become of two of the industry giants.


----------



## PPI_GUY

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> You might be right.
> 
> Amplifiers - Orion Car Audio
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


I think Orion (MD Audio...AKA Lanzar) may have ripped _themselves_ off with those ever enormous HCCA amps.


----------



## robert_wrath

That era with the OG HCCA's were awesome.


----------



## knever3

dallasneon said:


> WTF is this ****? HAHA! I'd be embarrassed if I worked for Epsilon.


Say what you want about the rip off of Mosconi, Epsilon will most likely get the finish right on _EVERY_ amp! :laugh:


----------



## Victor_inox

knever3 said:


> Say what you want about the rip off of Mosconi, Epsilon will most likely get the finish right on _EVERY_ amp!


  now this is funny

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

Hoptologist said:


> Focal posted some pics 4 hours ago, https://www.facebook.com/FocalAmerica/?fref=ts
> 
> Very interested in how the K2 subs will compare with the Flax subs.


I didn't hear the Flax subs, but did get to hear the K2s for a few minutes. They seemed pretty nice and played very deep quite well. This was only on the demo board and I didn't get any details at all. 

ORCA also had quite a bit of the Illusion and Mosconi stuff, as well as quite a bit of the Gladen product. 

Of everything I saw today (which wasn't a ton), I am probably most excited about the new generation of the Focal FPD amps for my own car.


----------



## Hoptologist

rton20s said:


> I didn't hear the Flax subs, but did get to hear the K2s for a few minutes. They seemed pretty nice and played very deep quite well. This was only on the demo board and I didn't get any details at all.
> 
> ORCA also had quite a bit of the Illusion and Mosconi stuff, as well as quite a bit of the Gladen product.
> 
> Of everything I saw today (which wasn't a ton), I am probably most excited about the new generation of the Focal FPD amps for my own car.


Noice. Did you take any pics? No K2 details at all? Did you listen to any Gladen subs? No Illusion C15 XL this year huh? What did you find out about the new FPD amps? Was Audiomobile near the ORCA stuff, any new sub news from them? This concludes this night's questioning.


----------



## Victor_inox

Quality of this copy cat is nowhere close to mosconi. It's quite ****ty actually.
I won't install it if it were free.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## dallasneon

Victor_inox said:


> Quality of this copy cat is nowhere close to mosconi. It's quite ****ty actually.
> I won't install it if it were free.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Good Lord! Lmfao!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

knever3 said:


> Say what you want about the rip off of Mosconi, Epsilon will most likely get the finish right on _EVERY_ amp!


They didnt. It looks like ****.i hold them in my hands. I wish mosconi sue epsilon and get court order to destroy all of them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## robert_wrath

Guys it's just outer casing...........Still Hilarious though!


----------



## Victor_inox

It's IP infringement!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Darth SQ

Victor_inox said:


> It's IP infringement!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


What do you bet Mosconi didn't patent it just like the rest of these commodity only manufacturers. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## johnbooth3

So I heard Zapco maybe bringing speakers back to the US from ESB. I looked at ESB website last night and saw a new line from ESB. Looks awesome. 8" driver w/ 2" of depth? 2" driver capable of 150hz. I loved my old Zapco blacks, so this really intrigues me. Very interesting speakers designs.

ESB - High Quality Car Audio Speakers


----------



## Victor_inox

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> What do you bet Mosconi didn't patent it just like the rest of these commodity only manufacturers.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


You don't have to patent design,only to prove that you designed it first. Tech companies do that all the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## robert_wrath

johnbooth3 said:


> So I heard Zapco maybe bringing speakers back to the US from ESB. I looked at ESB website last night and saw a new line from ESB. Looks awesome. 8" driver w/ 2" of depth? 2" driver capable of 150hz. I loved my old Zapco blacks, so this really intrigues me. Very interesting speakers designs.
> 
> ESB - High Quality Car Audio Speakers


The new ESB 9000 Series look Awesome.


----------



## JimmyDee

1,400 watts... out of a cheap amp that looks smaller than the sub beside it.
Must be a real powerhouse, because it's got 2 X 25 amp fuses.


----------



## rton20s

Did someone say ESB? There wasn't really anyone around the Zapco booth to answer questions the few times I stopped in and I didn't see any kind of printed information. I'm sure they'll have details available closer to US release. 

The vehicle specific stuff looked pretty well put together. It appeared that for at least some of the applications they had a single driver design that bolted to a different adapter/mount depending on which vehicle it was designed for.


----------



## robert_wrath

rton20s said:


> Did someone say ESB? There wasn't really anyone around the Zapco booth to answer questions the few times I stopped in and I didn't see any kind of printed information. I'm sure they'll have details available closer to US release.
> 
> The vehicle specific stuff looked pretty well put together. It appeared that for at least some of the applications they had a single driver design that bolted to a different adapter/mount depending on which vehicle it was designed for.



Wow, believe it or not, I think the ESB lineup are the sleepers for this season.


----------



## jtaudioacc

i had the 3 way esb in my car a long time ago. everything in that line doesn't seem to have changed. very nice.


----------



## robert_wrath

jtaudioacc said:


> i had the 3 way esb in my car a long time ago. everything in that line doesn't seem to have changed. very nice.


I still have my 8000's minus the Ottomila Sub.


----------



## rton20s

They all looked really nice, but as I said, I got zero information. Maybe Papasin or JT might have better luck tomorrow, if they have time. I'm back on a plane in the morning.

It will be interesting to see where each of the lines lands in terms of price point.


----------



## EricP72

https://youtu.be/HyhubYtrQzA
I don't care what terminology clarion used and if it really just analog or whatever. Can somebody sit in the car and tell me\us how does it sound. And I'm seeing no amp is required? This deserves further investigation.


----------



## Victor_inox

manish said:


> https://youtu.be/HyhubYtrQzA
> I don't care what terminology clarion used and if it really just analog or whatever. Can somebody sit in the car and tell me\us how does it sound. And I'm seeing no amp is required? This deserves further investigation.


I'd be happy to if I could find it.
I've been around westgate all day yesterday but didn't see it.
Video indicated that all speakers we have must be replaced with multi voice coils effectively killing after market appearance of such system,no?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

manish said:


> https://youtu.be/HyhubYtrQzA
> 
> I don't care what terminology clarion used and if it really just analog or whatever. Can somebody sit in the car and tell me\us how does it sound. And I'm seeing no amp is required? This deserves further investigation.



+1 would love to know. 

Also did anyone get any face time in front of the optical Clarion head unit? If it's got pretty good functional performance I may be filling the cookie jar for my next head unit. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jtaudioacc

Babs said:


> +1 would love to know.
> 
> Also did anyone get any face time in front of the optical Clarion head unit? If it's got pretty good functional performance I may be filling the cookie jar for my next head unit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


sure rton20 will comment on how great it worked when he was there.

i didnt play with it, i just looked at it. lol


----------



## rton20s

So, this is what I recall from my time with Clarion yesterday. They did have a car there with their new digital system installed. A very fine example of an NSX. However, it was displayed in a Westgate lobby and I never saw anyone getting a demo in the car.

In the room I did get a demo, it sounded ok, but the environment means nothing. One sales guy bragged about the tuning in the NSX, but what is the point if I CAN'T LISTEN TO IT?!

Moving on, other than the head unit, you really are buying into a system. The component set and the subwoofers only work with their Z3 processor and vice versa. The Z3 processor is fairly capable with 31 band graphic EQ per channel and crossovers up to 72 dB per octave! (I think I might have been the first guy to ask the sales rep that question, because he actually seemed surprised by the slope.) 

The processor takes optical in and sends a digital signal via copper out. There is a chip they called LSI on board each driver (except the tweeter) that controls cone movement. The LSI chip for the tweeter is on the Z3 processor in order to keep the size of the tweeters down. The subwoofer package also has a separate power and ground that is 14 gauge. The Z3 also has one set of RCA outputs for those that may want to install an amp to power a more substancial subwoofer setup. The controller looked pretty nice and had the typical volume and sub level as well as 4 preset selections. Oh, and all of the tuning is done via an Android app. 

He did say something about "removing the USB" will prevent a customer from screwing up all the tuning. So I'm not sure is he was saying that the tablet interfaces via USB and simply unplugging the cable prevents someone from making changes, or if there is some sort of wireless module that plugs into the USB port on the Z3. I would hope it is the latter. 

Would I consider this for my car? Not a chance. Something to "get by" in the wife's or a friend's car where space is a premium and you don't even want to mess with tiny class D amps? Then it would depend on the price point. 

Now to the big question... "No one cares about all of that, what about the new DD with optical out?!" 

My honest assessment, don't bother. The unit has a lot of great capabilities and with the new harnesses coming from Axxess they can provide you a ton of information and controls over other vehicles systems. And it has a TON of features at a crazy low price point. Why such a low price point? Because the GUI is horrendous. 

My fears were completely substantiated when I got my hands on time with the head unit. EVERYTHING lagged. Badly. I grew nearly as frustrated with this unit trying to move through the UI as I get with the garbage Rosen in my wife's car. I also asked a different sales rep why no Android Auto or CarPlay and he just shrugged and said "I'm not sure."

At first I thought it might be just me, but then a sales rep did a run down of the unit for myself and Robert from Luney Tunes (Clovis, CA). The sales rep was having just as hard of a time with the UI as I did. Clicking 3 or 4 times on a tile to get into an application because of lag. And then those clicks would register and pop you into and back out of the application. It just plain sucked.

I do have to say, the sales rep did claim that this was a pre-production unit. I just don't know that a software update could fix the issue. Especially if the problem is in the touch LCD its self. I couldn't recommend this unit to anyone unless their absolutely higher at priority was a head unit with optical out. Oh, and it does have a 15 band paragraphic EQ. So there is that. 

And they have some new back up cameras that they are releasing that look really nice.


----------



## Martin1430

What about single din with optical out? Has anyone seen any for 2016?


----------



## Babs

rton20s said:


> So, this is what I recall from my time with Clarion yesterday. They did have a car there with their new digital system installed. A very fine example of an NSX. However, it was displayed in a Westgate lobby and I never saw anyone getting a demo in the car.
> 
> In the room I did get a demo, it sounded ok, but the environment means nothing. One sales guy bragged about the tuning in the NSX, but what is the point if I CAN'T LISTEN TO IT?!
> 
> Moving on, other than the head unit, you really are buying into a system. The component set and the subwoofers only work with their Z3 processor and vice versa. The Z3 processor is fairly capable with 31 band graphic EQ per channel and crossovers up to 72 dB per octave! (I think I might have been the first guy to ask the sales rep that question, because he actually seemed surprised by the slope.)
> 
> The processor takes optical in and sends a digital signal via copper out. There is a chip they called LSI on board each driver (except the tweeter) that controls cone movement. The LSI chip for the tweeter is on the Z3 processor in order to keep the size of the tweeters down. The subwoofer package also has a separate power and ground that is 14 gauge. The Z3 also has one set of RCA outputs for those that may want to install an amp to power a more substancial subwoofer setup. The controller looked pretty nice and had the typical volume and sub level as well as 4 preset selections. Oh, and all of the tuning is done via an Android app.
> 
> He did say something about "removing the USB" will prevent a customer from screwing up all the tuning. So I'm not sure is he was saying that the tablet interfaces via USB and simply unplugging the cable prevents someone from making changes, or if there is some sort of wireless module that plugs into the USB port on the Z3. I would hope it is the latter.
> 
> Would I consider this for my car? Not a chance. Something to "get by" in the wife's or a friend's car where space is a premium and you don't even want to mess with tiny class D amps? Then it would depend on the price point.
> 
> Now to the big question... "No one cares about all of that, what about the new DD with optical out?!"
> 
> My honest assessment, don't bother. The unit has a lot of great capabilities and with the new harnesses coming from Axxess they can provide you a ton of information and controls over other vehicles systems. And it has a TON of features at a crazy low price point. Why such a low price point? Because the GUI is horrendous.
> 
> My fears were completely substantiated when I got my hands on time with the head unit. EVERYTHING lagged. Badly. I grew nearly as frustrated with this unit trying to move through the UI as I get with the garbage Rosen in my wife's car. I also asked a different sales rep why no Android Auto or CarPlay and he just shrugged and said "I'm not sure."
> 
> At first I thought it might be just me, but then a sales rep did a run down of the unit for myself and Robert from Luney Tunes (Clovis, CA). The sales rep was having just as hard of a time with the UI as I did. Clicking 3 or 4 times on a tile to get into an application because of lag. And then those clicks would register and pop you into and back out of the application. It just plain sucked.
> 
> I do have to say, the sales rep did claim that this was a pre-production unit. I just don't know that a software update could fix the issue. Especially if the problem is in the touch LCD its self. I couldn't recommend this unit to anyone unless their absolutely higher at priority was a head unit with optical out. Oh, and it does have a 15 band paragraphic EQ. So there is that.
> 
> And they have some new back up cameras that they are releasing that look really nice.



Shoooo! Well that settles that I guess. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

For the life of me can't find damn clarion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

It is in the Westgate and tough to find. There are some signs for Ford and it will look like you're going the wrong way. Keep going, you'll find it. It is in the conference rooms, just ask for directions. I want to hear how your conversation with them goes regarding digital all the way to the speaker.


----------



## Victor_inox

Being there,conference rooms were closed.id love to listen it and what they have to say about it.i honestly tried to find it two days in a row.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

I asked 5 employees including 3 floor managers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

https://www.westgatedestinations.com/images/westgate-las-vegas-resort-casino/PDF/WG_Convention_Area_Map_8x11_R1_FINAL.pdf

It is upstairs. You are going to the Westgate, correct? In the link above it is in the second floor conference area near where it says Executive Board Room. Walk through all of the "Global" exhibitors. Turn right in that lobby on the South end of the map, go through the doors past the desk that is labeled Conference Registration desk. I believe the NSX will be on your right. Head upstairs and you'll find it. 

Best I can do from Fresno.


----------



## Victor_inox

rton20s said:


> https://www.westgatedestinations.co.../PDF/WG_Convention_Area_Map_8x11_R1_FINAL.pdf
> 
> It is upstairs. You are going to the Westgate, correct? In the link above it is in the second floor conference area near where it says Executive Board Room. Walk through all of the "Global" exhibitors. Turn right in that lobby on the South end of the map, go through the doors past the desk that is labeled Conference Registration desk. I believe the NSX will be on your right. Head upstairs and you'll find it.
> 
> Best I can do from Fresno.


Thank you for your effort to help,unfortunately it's time to catch my flight home.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## bilbo6209

rton20s said:


> That is actually quite interesting. I do wonder how it will perform. I'll have to swing by the Clarion booth if I have time. I'll try and get more details about the NX706 and Z3 DSP. Anything specific you're wanting to know Scott?


I have a Clarion vx404 and it plays 100% anything I throw at it, opening a 1tb hard drive is very slow! And touches are not accurate but the touch issue could be a bad deck but I didn't want to send it in and be without tunes for 2 to 4 weeks.


----------



## bilbo6209

rton20s said:


> That would indicate that it probably will be compatible with other DSPs with optical input.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious is you will be able to control the phone from the HU touch screen when using the lightning to HDMI adapter. I know on the Pioneer (I think NEX) units when you connect this way, you are just mirroring your screen and have no control of the device from the HU. BIG negative, in my book.
> 
> Street prices are usually lower than MSRP as well. If this thing actually performs well and isn't laggy like the NX702 was reported to be, it will be quite a steel. Especially considering navigation comes along for the ride.


With my current Clarion nx404 I can make calls, and control Pandora on my Android phone, I haven't played with it but apparently you can also connect your phone and mirror the display, I'm not sure if that allows control or if it's just for playback of video etc.


----------



## AAAAAAA

^mirror link is junk apparently.. From what I've read.. In general not just for that unit.


----------



## jtaudioacc

some random pictures i thought interesting enough to take.


----------



## AAAAAAA

Thanks for that jtaudioacc


----------



## Brettilly

That focal amp looks over 4 feet long!


----------



## PPI_GUY

jtaudioacc said:


>


How did the AudioControl demo vehicle sound? Overall impressions of their new gear?


----------



## hot9dog

Holy crap! That Focal amp is huge!!! I need it to feed my surfboard addiction . I'm curious about the new focal kx subs too. Alot of good equipment from alot of companies this year.


----------



## robert_wrath

Brettilly said:


> That focal amp looks over 4 feet long!


Thing's a freakin Surf Board!


----------



## jtaudioacc

PPI_GUY said:


> How did the AudioControl demo vehicle sound? Overall impressions of their new gear?


i myself never listened to it. i never saw anyone listening to it, and it didn't seem they were ever demoing it. but, i never asked. 

someone told me the crossover slopes for the dsp is set at 24db and that's it. you can't change it. someone correct me if i'm wrong.


----------



## jtaudioacc

that amp is a 11 channel. a mono, 4 channel, and 6 channel in one.


----------



## ErinH

jtaudioacc said:


>


I really like how the lighting was done in this install with how it wraps around the contour of the wall. thats' really sweet.


----------



## lostthumb

jtaudioacc said:


> some random pictures i thought interesting enough to take.


It was nice to run into you and meet you on the first morning. How did the Audiofrog car sound? I was not able to make it out there.


----------



## quality_sound

knever3 said:


> Say what you want about the rip off of Mosconi, Epsilon will most likely get the finish right on _EVERY_ amp! :laugh:



I never had an issue with the finish on mine. That said Mosconi IS Italian. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quality_sound

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> What do you bet Mosconi didn't patent it just like the rest of these commodity only manufacturers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bret
> 
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR



Because US patent law is valid in China?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quality_sound

Victor_inox said:


> Quality of this copy cat is nowhere close to mosconi. It's quite ****ty actually.
> I won't install it if it were free.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk



Why does it matter? Didn't you say Mosconi was dead to you? Or have we changed our stance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alrojoca

11 Channel amp, 4 feet or longer.

I hope when ups ships one of those it does not stand between 2 boxes and a 70 lb box does not fall right in the middle.

Or they throw it 4 feet high and it lands on one end.


----------



## JimmyDee

Looks like Focal is resurrecting the FPD Series amplifiers.

I know the original series had issues with the tiny allen screws on the speaker terminals (I broke one too). 
That said, I've owned/used these for the past three years, and they are fantastic amps. 
In my opinion they might be the best sounding Class D out there.

That 11 channel looks like exactly what I want:
3-way active front
2-way active rear
Sub

But, I can't imagine how it would fit in any vehicle. Just looks too long.

Plus, it'd be a nightmare, if something went wrong with it. Your whole system would be out of commission, while it's being repaired.


----------



## Victor_inox

quality_sound said:


> Why does it matter? Didn't you say Mosconi was dead to you? Or have we changed our stance?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You make no sense, what matters? ****ty quality, theft? please be specific.


----------



## quality_sound

Victor_inox said:


> You make no sense, what matters? ****ty quality, theft? please be specific.



When the pics were first posted, you said Mosconi was now dead to you because you were certain there was no way PA made this design without help from Mosconi. Now you're all concerned that PA stole the design from Mosconi. 
Can you not remember what you said? I really shouldn't have to explain your own words to you. If you still can't follow, I'm saying you're a hypocrite. First you condemn Mosconi for no reason at all, the you're trying to act like you care that their design was stolen. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DDfusion

DDs first 5 channel. 

Don't know specs yet but it is active capable
High level summing which I've never seen before
Small foot print


----------



## adriancp

DDfusion, did you get any other pics or info from the DD booth? 

And as far as the first 5 channel.. They used to have the SS5 until early last year didn't they?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jtaudioacc

lostthumb said:


> It was nice to run into you and meet you on the first morning. How did the Audiofrog car sound? I was not able to make it out there.


you too. Andy's car sounded very good.


----------



## nineball76

DDfusion said:


> DDs first 5 channel.
> 
> Don't know specs yet but it is active capable
> High level summing which I've never seen before
> Small foot print


The ss5 was their first 5 channel.


----------



## DDfusion

Yeah I forgot that one. My bad 

There are a few on their Facebook page


----------



## Victor_inox

quality_sound said:


> When the pics were first posted, you said Mosconi was now dead to you because you were certain there was no way PA made this design without help from Mosconi. Now you're all concerned that PA stole the design from Mosconi.
> Can you not remember what you said? I really shouldn't have to explain your own words to you. If you still can't follow, I'm saying you're a hypocrite. First you condemn Mosconi for no reason at all, the you're trying to act like you care that their design was stolen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do t think,ask.you interpretation of my words could be incorrect. 
My first reaction was disgust with mosconi. When I checked that amp in person it's obvious that design was stolen.
I don't see discrepancy but you got butt hurt for no obvious reason.
Sorry about that.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## quality_sound

I'm not butt hurt. Just pointing out your typical MO of jumping to a wrong conclusion then completely change your position and act like that's how you felt the whole time. It's why a lot of people don't take you seriously, no matter how intelligent you may actually be. Maybe you should follow your own advice and ask first as well. 

Back to your regularly scheduled program. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DDfusion

Power acoustik copied RF power amps a long time ago. This is nothing new.


----------



## gckless

jimmydee said:


> Plus, it'd be a nightmare, if something went wrong with it. Your whole system would be out of commission, while it's being repaired.


Kind of a moot point. If your mids amp was down, do you listen to just tweeters and subs? Not many do. And not everyone has spare amps.

Shipping would be a ***** though, that's for sure.


----------



## Victor_inox

quality_sound said:


> I'm not butt hurt. Just pointing out your typical MO of jumping to a wrong conclusion then completely change your position and act like that's how you felt the whole time. It's why a lot of people don't take you seriously, no matter how intelligent you may actually be. Maybe you should follow your own advice and ask first as well.
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled program.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 First You interpreted my initial response incorrectly, like it or not that what it is.
Lot of people don`t take me seriously? You obviously did a survey on that topic...:laugh:
Even if that is true read my sig line.
Now tell us how you really feel about topic at hand. You obviously get butt hurt I`m just not sure about what. I`m genuinely wondering what is it ticked you?
are you affiliated with Mosconi or Epsilon?


----------



## mfenske

lostthumb said:


> How did the Audiofrog car sound?


This! How did it sound?


----------



## Babs

mfenske said:


> This! How did it sound?



Yes. How'd Andy's roll sound? Do tell. Who got a demo?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jtaudioacc

jtaudioacc said:


> you too. Andy's car sounded very good.





mfenske said:


> This! How did it sound?





Babs said:


> Yes. How'd Andy's roll sound? Do tell. Who got a demo?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


"Andy's car sounded very good"


----------



## Alrojoca

jtaudioacc said:


> you too. Andy's car sounded very good.





Iguess that means it sounded good for the one that keep asking


----------



## rton20s

Alrojoca said:


> 11 Channel amp, 4 feet or longer.
> 
> I hope when ups ships one of those it does not stand between 2 boxes and a 70 lb box does not fall right in the middle.
> 
> Or they throw it 4 feet high and it lands on one end.


That amp is not 4 feet long. The amp is *ONLY* 40" long. It will certainly fit width-wise in most cars, depending on where you place it. Something like a little Smart? Probably not? 

Getting the kind of power you have available in under 300 square inches isn't bad at all, if you have the room for it. I can see a lot of these going in behind the seats of extended/quad cab trucks and under the floor of SUVs. 



jimmydee said:


> Looks like Focal is resurrecting the FPD Series amplifiers.
> 
> I know the original series had issues with the tiny allen screws on the speaker terminals (I broke one too).
> That said, I've owned/used these for the past three years, and they are fantastic amps.
> In my opinion they might be the best sounding Class D out there.
> 
> That 11 channel looks like exactly what I want:
> 3-way active front
> 2-way active rear
> Sub
> 
> But, I can't imagine how it would fit in any vehicle. Just looks too long.
> 
> Plus, it'd be a nightmare, if something went wrong with it. Your whole system would be out of commission, while it's being repaired.


The update has been in the works for a while. We saw some of the first in the Porsche build that SIS did. I'm actually looking at these for my own car. A combination of 6 channel and mono though, not the 40" 11 channel beast. 

I don't see any difference operationally between a typical 5 channel amp install and the Focal 11 channel. All of your amplification in one package is pretty common these days. 

I will say that based on what I heard, if you want one of those 11 channel amps, you might want to start contacting your local Focal dealer sooner than later. Seems like production might be fairly limited.


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## rton20s

jtaudioacc said:


> "Andy's car sounded very good"


Agreed. A different listening experience from driver to passenger seat, but the passenger seat was quite good. Probably better than any two seat car I have heard. Not that I have heard a ton. Andy did state that he had more tuning to do as he was running short on time to get to CES.


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## dallasneon

Did anyone see the Oncore gear? 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## cvjoint

What's the power in that 11 channel? I couldn't find any specs online. The allure to me is that with one giant amp the heatsink is so large I'll never run into overheating problems.


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## jtaudioacc

cvjoint said:


> What's the power in that 11 channel? I couldn't find any specs online. The allure to me is that with one giant amp the heatsink is so large I'll never run into overheating problems.


i don't think it's any larger than the 3 amps contained in the one chassis. i know the sub section is something like [email protected] and [email protected] then there's a 4 channel and 6 channel amp stuffed in there as well. those channels are 150watts like the older ones i use.


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## fullergoku

Did anyone at CES see the Zapco DSP Z16 HDR or DSP Z12 HDR processors?


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## jtaudioacc

fullergoku said:


> Did anyone at CES see the Zapco DSP Z16 HDR or DSP Z12 HDR processors?


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## fullergoku

jtaudioacc said:


>


Thanks JT any details on them? crossover slopes, t/a adjustments, phase adjustments and release dates?


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## rton20s

Oh... so you guys want more pictures?

OnCore. Unfortunately Eric wasn't around when I went by, so I didn't get a demo. Sounds like things should be coming along fairly soon.

















































Zapco. Never had a chance to talk to anyone at the booth. John was not in attendance.


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## robert_wrath

fullergoku said:


> Did anyone at CES see the* Zapco DSP Z16 HDR or DSP Z12 HDR processors*?





jtaudioacc said:


>


*Oh Wow! Surprised no one chimed in on this.*


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## rton20s

jtaudioacc said:


> i don't think it's any larger than the 3 amps contained in the one chassis. i know the sub section is something like [email protected] and [email protected] then there's a 4 channel and 6 channel amp stuffed in there as well. those channels are 150watts like the older ones i use.


I believe the new "big mono" as well as the mono section of the 11 channel are rated at 1200W @ 4 Ohms and 2000W @ 2 Ohms. Chassis on the big mono is the same size as the 6 channel.


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## jtaudioacc

fullergoku said:


> Thanks JT any details on them? crossover slopes, t/a adjustments, phase adjustments and release dates?


sorry, i just took some pictures. i thought they looked nasty. haha

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153822150722436&id=297069617435

the link is to the facebook page with some details. sounds cool.


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## rton20s

robert_wrath said:


> *Oh Wow! Surprised no one chimed in on this.*


I don't know that anyone got any real information from Zapco. To me, it appeared to be a pre-production unit to demonstrate the size and connection configuration of the future production model.

Never mind. Looks like JT has a link to the info.


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## cvjoint

jtaudioacc said:


> i don't think it's any larger than the 3 amps contained in the one chassis. i know the sub section is something like [email protected] and [email protected] then there's a 4 channel and 6 channel amp stuffed in there as well. those channels are 150watts like the older ones i use.


Ahh thanks. I would need something 1 ohm stable. Too bad they make this a Class D and not stable at 1 ohm. I wouldn't want to get stuck with a big amp like that that doesn't work. All or nothing approach not a great approach then.


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## Guest

I'm really liking the Oncore equipment so far.... nice simple, clean lines.... the 8 channel looks very interesting. ...


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## Babs

Saw on FB Zapco's new DSP has buku channels and high def wifi streaming from device. Very cool!

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153822150722436&id=297069617435










Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Golden Ear

SQ_TSX said:


> I'm really liking the Oncore equipment so far.... nice simple, clean lines.... the 8 channel looks very interesting. ...



I was looking at that same one. It's like the allspark cube of audio amplification 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jtaudioacc

cvjoint said:


> Ahh thanks. I would need something 1 ohm stable. Too bad they make this a Class D and not stable at 1 ohm. I wouldn't want to get stuck with a big amp like that that doesn't work. All or nothing approach not a great approach then.


i think it's just a fun piece. just get the 3 amps instead.


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## SteveH!

any word on watts per channel?




rton20s said:


> That amp is not 4 feet long. The amp is *ONLY* 40" long. It will certainly fit width-wise in most cars, depending on where you place it. Something like a little Smart? Probably not?
> 
> Getting the kind of power you have available in under 300 square inches isn't bad at all, if you have the room for it. I can see a lot of these going in behind the seats of extended/quad cab trucks and under the floor of SUVs.
> 
> 
> 
> The update has been in the works for a while. We saw some of the first in the Porsche build that SIS did. I'm actually looking at these for my own car. A combination of 6 channel and mono though, not the 40" 11 channel beast.
> 
> I don't see any difference operationally between a typical 5 channel amp install and the Focal 11 channel. All of your amplification in one package is pretty common these days.
> 
> I will say that based on what I heard, if you want one of those 11 channel amps, you might want to start contacting your local Focal dealer sooner than later. Seems like production might be fairly limited.


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## Golden Ear

jtaudioacc said:


> i don't think it's any larger than the 3 amps contained in the one chassis. i know the sub section is something like [email protected] and [email protected] then there's a 4 channel and 6 channel amp stuffed in there as well. those channels are 150watts like the older ones i use.






SteveH! said:


> any word on watts per channel?



....


Sent from my mind using telekinesis


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## etroze

SQ_TSX said:


> I'm really liking the Oncore equipment so far.... nice simple, clean lines.... the 8 channel looks very interesting. ...


I agree they are just very clean and understated and if I can afford that 8ch when it comes out I might pick one up for either home audio experiments or replace my 6ch in my Acura CL.


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## rton20s

Just so it is clear, these were the power numbers that I was given at the Focal Suite. The updated amps should have the same power ratings as the previous models. 

4 Channel: 150x4 @ 4 Ohms, 200x2 @ 2 Ohms
6 Channel: 150x 6 @ 4 Ohms, 200x2 @ 2 Ohms
Small Mono: 550x1 @ 4 Ohms, 900x2 @ 2 Ohms
Large Mono: 1200x1 @ 4 Ohms, 2000x1 @ 2 Ohms
11 Channel (4+6+large Mono): 150x10 + 1200x1 @ 4 Ohms, 200x10 + 2000x1 @ 2 Ohms

Dimensionally, they should be pretty similar to the previous models. So everything is 2" tall x 7 3/8" wide with the 4 channel and small mono being 9 1/2" long, the 6 channel and large mono at 13 7/8" long and the 11 channel at 40" long. All fanless Class D designs.


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## SteveH!

so basically they pulled a Genesis. multple amps in one chassis.


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## rton20s

SteveH! said:


> so basically they pulled a Genesis. multple amps in one chassis.


Not the first, not the last.


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## SteveH!

rton20s said:


> Not the first, not the last.


 agreed


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## JoeHemi57

SQ_TSX said:


> I'm really liking the Oncore equipment so far.... nice simple, clean lines.... the 8 channel looks very interesting. ...


Yes it does, i can't wait to start seeing some specs, reviews, and most importantly prices for their gear. 

Did anybody check out the new JL Audio RD series amps? They have a nice 5 channel with msrp of $599. 

Anything new from Morel, Phoenix Gold, Arc Audio, Audiomobile(supposed to be releasing 6 lines at a show from 10th-12th)?

Thanks for the pics guys!

edit: some more info on the AudioControl LC4.800 and the other 4 channel amp they are coming out with would be awesome too. I think i could run a nice simple setup off one of those by itself if the 150w @4ohm per channel power numbers are correct.


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## lostthumb

rton20s said:


> Oh... so you guys want more pictures?
> 
> OnCore. Unfortunately Eric wasn't around when I went by, so I didn't get a demo. Sounds like things should be coming along fairly soon.
> 
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> I had a demo from Matt. That display got crazy loud for a pair of 6x9s and subs in such a large space. It was powered by their 8 channel class a/b amp.


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## ErinH

Babs said:


> Someone heard me! Someone heard me!
> 
> heres-clarions-hi-res-car-audio-deck/
> 
> 
> 
> Clarion U.S.A | NX706


Just saw on facebook from a fella who is beta testing this unit ...






So, it does digital volume control from the headunit (evidenced via the "variable" and "fixed" options in the above screenshot). Pretty cool.


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## JoeHemi57

I think i could run that PE1.4 amp, C65 component set and SM10 or 12 and have a nice simple setup that would be plenty in a smaller car or truck. Ballpark prices would be great if possible sometime soon.


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## Babs

ErinH said:


> Just saw on facebook from a fella who is beta testing this unit ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, it does digital volume control from the headunit (evidenced via the "variable" and "fixed" options in the above screenshot). Pretty cool.


I asked Clarion themselves on their FB page to do a vid of the unit in use. 
I didn't say why but it was due to it being reported here that the unit was a laggy lagmonster.

Yep Erin, variable and fixed.. Very doggone cool I think.

Not everyone may know but on the product page HERE, where it says:
*Highlight	Profile	Specification	Connectivity	Back to Product List*

go to Profile and that's where the meat of the info is on the unit. That's where I saw this statement:



Clarion said:


> Thanks to the optical digital output, it is possible to use an optical cable to connect to external units such as Full Digital Sound units or DSP devices to upgrade your system to digital. Connecting the center unit to Full Digital Sound units enables you to enjoy cutting-edge high-quality digital sound. And since the output *can be set to Fixed or Variable, you can maximize the volume of the source unit and adjust it at the processor, or finely adjust volume directly at the source unit.*


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## pyropoptrt




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## rton20s

That is the condensed version of the spiel that I got. They didn't show much detail of him interacting with the touch screen. What they did show looks to be better than what I was seeing when I checked it out. 

They also have this video on the full digital sound system, but there isn't really the kind of detail people on diyma would be looking for.


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## Babs

rton20s said:


> That is the condensed version of the spiel that I got. They didn't show much detail of him interacting with the touch screen. What they did show looks to be better than what I was seeing when I checked it out.
> 
> 
> 
> They also have this video on the full digital sound system, but there isn't really the kind of detail people on diyma would be looking for.



Yeah that poor sales rep. Was he the guy fumbling trying to make the head unit work when you saw it?

Also, on that head unit, I believe you're right when you said it was a pre-production test unit. So hopefully much buggyness will be addressed when they actually hit the shelves. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ErinH

According to David MacKinnon (whose Facebook post I screen shot and provided earlier) there is no iPod support. To some this probably is inconsequential. To me it's a pretty important feature missing. I think since this is still in pre-production it could be resolved but I didn't get the impression it would be thanks to apple's fees.

Edit: here's the context...









PS: there is our very own AVIDETR and Babs.


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## Babs

LOL!!! "Who in their right mind needs 512Gb of music.. Wait... Erin!"



ErinH said:


> According to David MacKinnon (whose Facebook post I screen shot and provided earlier) there is no iPod support. To some this probably is inconsequential. To me it's a pretty important feature missing. I think since this is still in pre-production it could be resolved but I didn't get the impression it would be thanks to apple's fees.


However.. I was thinking about that, and a couple things.. Might work on the iPods with lightning inputs, granted it looks like that's just a puny 16g device. So I think, what if what if... A 30pin to lightning adapter or something along those lines? "Apple Proprietary" strikes again! And that's coming from an apple fanboi.


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## rton20s

Babs said:


> Yeah that poor sales rep. Was he the guy fumbling trying to make the head unit work when you saw it?
> 
> Also, on that head unit, I believe you're right when you said it was a pre-production test unit. So hopefully much buggyness will be addressed when they actually hit the shelves.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep. Same sales guy. 

I had a different guy (a couple actually) running through the full digital system with me. 

I hope for Clarion's (and all of our) sake, they get the bugs worked out prior to production. Judging by Erin's posts, at least they have people beta testing the units and putting them through the paces.


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## Babs

rton20s said:


> Yep. Same sales guy.
> 
> I had a different guy (a couple actually) running through the full digital system with me.
> 
> I hope for Clarion's (and all of our) sake, they get the bugs worked out prior to production. Judging by Erin's posts, at least they have people beta testing the units and putting them through the paces.


Yep, I suspect they'll get her dialed in. I'm rooting for it. Nice 2-din experience with single toslink run to the trunk, and I'm told bluetooth phone function that actually works. Keeping it at/under a grand. I'm a fan if it sonically brings it and the firmware gets some good treatment.

I tell ya.. The first sub $600 mech-less, amp-less, carplay / android auto unit with toslink out.. I bet 1/2 of this forum would have or want one. Hell it's just a doggone bluetooth hi-rez media server with USB inputs and a 7 inch screen for pete's sake. I do not need to connect to the car's system.


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## jpswanberg

Is Dave McKinnon the same guy who used to test for Pasmag?


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## Tnutt19

who is going to post pictures of the new Audison thesis Tweeters and the Th Sax that are available again?


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## rton20s

Tnutt19 said:


> who is going to post pictures of the new Audison thesis Tweeters and the Th Sax that are available again?


I went to their exhibit, but didn't take a single picture. Sorry.


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## bbfoto

lostthumb said:


> rton20s said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... so you guys want more pictures?
> 
> OnCore. Unfortunately Eric wasn't around when I went by, so I didn't get a demo. Sounds like things should be coming along fairly soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a demo from Matt. That display got crazy loud for a pair of 6x9s and subs in such a large space. It was powered by their 8 channel class a/b amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of the photos! You didn't happen to check how warm or hot that 8-Channel Class A/B amp was, did you? I was just wondering because I do like the clean lines, but I don't see any (really effective) heat sink. ...Though it probably wasn't running long enough to warm up much.
> 
> That 8-Channel could simplify power wiring a bit, but you actually may have more versatility in roughly the same overall package size (and the same power output) by stacking a few Alpine PDX-F6, JL HD600/4, or better yet two Arc XDi v2 1200.6? However, the OnCore ON8.150 would mostly likely be more cost-effective and is Class A/B if that matters to you.
Click to expand...


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## lostthumb

bbfoto said:


> lostthumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of the photos! You didn't happen to check how warm or hot that 8-Channel Class A/B amp was, did you? I was just wondering because I do like the clean lines, but I don't see any (really effective) heat sink. ...Though it probably wasn't running long enough to warm up much.
> 
> That 8-Channel could simplify power wiring a bit, but you actually may have more versatility in roughly the same overall package size (and the same power output) by stacking a few Alpine PDX-F6, JL HD600/4, or better yet two Arc XDi v2 1200.6? However, the OnCore ON8.150 would mostly likely be more cost-effective and is Class A/B if that matters to you.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Matt said it is fan cooled. I did touch it and it was not hot at all. This will simplify wiring. Not sure what it can do bridged for sub channel. The Arc can do 600 watts bridged which I think it's very good for a multi channel amp.
Click to expand...


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