# Pioneer Stage 4 Comps ? The Audition



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

So I think everyone knows that Pioneer decided to ****can the Premier line and consolidate the top end offerings in the Stage 4 line. They introduced Stage 4 at CES, and of course most people on here are now familiar with the venerable DEX-P99RS deck. Unfortunately, the rest of the Stage 4 product lineup is virtually unknown. I’m sure releasing a ultra premium priced product in this economy has had an effect, but also Pioneer has done a seemingly piss poor job of promoting it, especially when it comes to the drivers. Frankly I would not be surprised if the Stage 4 line is discontinued, with the P99 becoming just the top deck in their standard product lineup. 

So anyway, I’ve had the P99 deck for most of a year now, and I’ve been curious about how the drivers would perform with it. I happened upon a good deal on the 2-way component set and separate midrange and went ahead and pulled the trigger. Since there is so little information on these, I’ll try to be as detailed as thorough as I can be in my critique of them, but I will also take my time and form an opinion of them after extended listening, so if you’re expecting to read through and come to a conclusion in a few short posts, you might want to revisit this thread in a few weeks. Also, since they are new drivers, I want to allow for a break-in period.










I’ll also be upfront and state that while I am still learning much and I try to be a critical listener, I’m not heavily experienced when it comes to reviews, nor have I auditioned large numbers of high end/reference systems to become a well-seasoned evaluator. I’ll also avoid using gray descriptions (such as “airy”) and any technical phenomena that may occur that I don’t fully understand (like cone breakup, comb filtering, etc). I do plan on soliciting the opinions of experienced locals that can offer a more critical review of them, and I’ll publish their thoughts as they are available. I’ll also state that I’ve only briefly heard the preceding Premier PRS comps in an over the top show vehicle, where they frankly sounded like ass, so I won’t attempt to make any comparisons to them.

Enough chatter and on with the review…


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

The tweeters and midbass are a 2-way set, with passive crossovers, grilles, and mounting hardware/accessories. An instruction sheet is included, but due to its confusing multi-lingual layout and microscopic print, it’s a pain in the ass to read.

The published specs:
50w RMS, 200w peak
Nominal 4-ohm impedance
Frequency response: 25-35,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 89 dB

I plan to test these active, so the 2-way passive crossovers will not be reviewed. They look like the previous PRS crossovers, with +3/-3 db tweeter level control. The X-over frequency is 1.9khz. Here’s a pic.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

The 28mm soft dome tweeters physically look like the previous PRS tweets, except in all black. 


















The only published parameters are:
Revc (voice coil resistance): 6 Ohm
Levc (voice coil inductance): .02 mH

It comes with a few mounting cups/adapters and hardware, which I did not photograph. Here it is next to my favorite tweet, a HAT L1 Pro SE, which is similar in size.










In fact, with a little “shim tape” it fits nicely into the sail panels where the HAT tweets were located.


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

GREAT!!!

I am excited to hear some reviews on these speakers as I have been eyfucking them for awhile now as a possible alternative for my Quart Q's


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

The midbass is 6-3/4”. The cone material is a 3-layer fiber composite like the previous PRS midbass, and the surround is a microfiber/suede like material. All these no doubt mean hecka SQ. The frame, motor and neo magnet assembly are noticeably different. The frame feels very substantial, although the overall mass of the driver feels pretty light due to the neo magnet. The phase plug is gigantic. There are mounting adapter rings and hardware included.









































The published parameters are:
Revc (voice coil resistance): 3 Ohm
Levc (voice coil inductance): .14 mH
Fs (free air resonance freq): 45hz
Zmax (max impedance): 56.5 ohm
Qms (mech. Q factor): 5.90
Qes (elec. Q factor): .54
Qts (total Q factor): .50
Vas(equivalent acoustic volume): .84 cu/ft
RMS (damping loss): .627 N.S/m
Mms (mechanical mass of cone): 14.1g
Cms (mechanical suspension compliance): 8.95E-04
BL (flux density): 4.91 T.m
Sd (piston area): 21.20 sq/in
Hvc: .20 in
Hag: .57 in
Displacement: .011 cu/ft
Magnet weight: 2.79 oz (possibly a manual typo?)

Here’s the published combined frequency response for the tweet & midbass:









Here it is next to two other baller midbasses, the venerable ScanSpeak 18W, and the newly released HAT L6 SE. The PRS has the same cone area as the others, even though they are touted as 7” drivers due to the larger mounting flange. 









With new speaker baffles, these are going into the stock door location.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Now to what most people are curious about, the TS-S062PRS 2-5/8” midrange. The cone looks to be of the same material as the midbass and the surround is rubber. The frame and motor assembly are pretty stout, with the non-removable grille integrated into the frame. There are mounting adapter rings, adhesive backed seals, but no mounting hardware. There is no dedicated manual for this, as all parameters and mounting details are included in the 2-way set manual.

































The published specs:
15w RMS/60w peak, 50w RMS/200w peak with back chamber
Nominal 4-ohm impedance
Frequency response: 80-40,000 Hz, 100-40,000 hz with back chamber
Sensitivity: 85 dB

The published parameters are:
Revc (voice coil resistance): 3.3 Ohm
Levc (voice coil inductance): .07 mH
Fs (free air resonance freq): 145hz
Zmax (max impedance): 148.2 ohm
Qms (mech. Q factor): 9.40
Qes (elec. Q factor): .31
Qts (total Q factor): .30
Vas(equivalent acoustic volume): .01 cu/ft
RMS (damping loss): .225 N.S/m
Mms (mechanical mass of cone): 2.32g
Cms (mechanical suspension compliance): 5.19E-04
BL (flux density): 4.74 T.m
Sd (piston area): 3.55 sq/in
Hvc: .16 in
Hag: .22 in
Displacement: .002 cu/ft
Magnet weight: 1.43 oz

Here’s the published combined frequency response for the midrange. It looks like it could easily play 400hz to 5khz.









The midrange comes with a cup that bolts onto the rear. According to the manual, this cup increases the power handling and improves the musical transition of notes from low to mid. The cup bolts onto the rear of the magnet with a supplied screw, and has potted through speaker wire included, as well as a small amount of polyfill inside. There is also an angled mounting surface on the cup. The cup fits very snugly.

























As far as location of the mids go, I plan on trialing them both in the kicks and on the dash near the pillars, although I’m not really a fan of pillar installs. I’ve already got about a week of listening time on these paired with the aforementioned HAT drivers, and the kick location sounds better and not so in your face like the dash/pillar does. My custom work install guy is out on uh… maternity leave right now, so for now I’m going to have to settle for a ghetto kick install using towels to help position and aim the mids, as shown below.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

So this install is in an ’06 Tundra D-cab. The source unit is a DEX-P99RS. The tweets are powered off the 25w channels from a JL 500/5. The mids are powered off the 100w 500/5 channels. The midbass are running off an Arc KS125.4 mini, bridged to 250w per channel. A JL 10W3 in a stealthbox in the center console running off the 500/5 250w sub channel provides the low end response. I do have the JL amp’s 30hz subsonic filter on, as the small Stealthbox doesn’t allow the sub to play that low. There are no rear fill or other drivers in the mix.

This pic shows the location and relative proximity of all drivers to each other. I realize there are some location compromises here, but these are the locations I’m willing to live with. As mentioned, I will try the mid up on the dash as well.









I’ve never been crazy about the results from the auto-tune feature on the P99 unit, but I’m making a wild-assed assumption that maybe the auto-tune routine was optimized for these drivers, so for starters, I’m going to let auto-tune in auto network mode establish all filter points and TA/EQ adjustments. Doing so, it set filters as follows:

Sub-LP: 63hz
Low-BP: 63hz – 1.6khz
Mid-BP: 1.6khz – 8khz
High-HP: 8khz
All slopes are 12db. Left side driver levels are 2-3 db lower.

I’ll give this setup a few days before making manual adjustments. I’m open for comments, questions, and suggestions. Please be civil.

So there it all is. Now the audition begins…


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Be sure to post a video

Those looks like very aesthetically appealing drivers, so I hope the sound is decent as well. Now that I have the FJ done for the time being, we should set up a time to meet up. I'm definitely interested in your review and your thoughts.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

ISTundra,

Excellent pictures !

The review is great thus far.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Subscribed. Very interested to hear your impressions considering the other drivers you own.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

x2!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Damn! I just about forgot about these speakers. You're right, not much publicity for them.

Glad you got these & are sharing your thoughts.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*



ISTundra said:


> I’ve never been crazy about the results from the auto-tune feature on the P99 unit, but I’m making a wild-assed assumption that maybe the auto-tune routine was optimized for these drivers, so for starters, I’m going to let auto-tune in auto network mode establish all filter points and TA/EQ adjustments. Doing so, it set filters as follows:
> 
> Sub-LP: 63hz
> Low-BP: 63hz – 1.6khz
> ...


i'm very interested in your results & comments too 

But those crossover frequencies are a bit ... suspect? strange? I know they are the result of an auto-tune, but it seems that auto-tune doesn't think you have a dedicated midrange  Looks more like sub, woofer, tweeter and super-tweeter.

I'm only mentioning this because, one of the things we'll _all_ be interested in ... is how _low_ that little midrange can play  Lots of reasons, including the possibility of a dedicated center-channel (as well as dash-mounted L/R midranges, of course).

So, is the TS-062PRS a midrange ... or a large-format tweeter?  

'tis the question in my mind


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Wow those certainly look like great drivers. I really like how the basket wraps around the motot on the the midbass to prevent shifting.


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I have been SERIOUSLY debating on buying these mid's for my wifes car at some point down the road as I am doing a build for her and want to do a 3way setup for her


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## stereojnky (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

You say there's no mounting hardware for the mids? According to Crutchfield there are supposed to be 8 hex head and 8 phillips head screws "in the box".


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I have occasionally seen ODR drivers show up in build logs, so I was very interested in these when I saw them in the Crutchfield magazine (especially their price). I think your review is off to a great start - looking forward to hearing your impressions.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I'll be posting an update by the weekend, maybe tomorrow night.


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Tuned in.


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## cnut334 (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Tuned in also! That's some beautiful equipment you have there.


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## plasticeye (Aug 11, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Suspect fer sure. I made one pass with autotune and got exactly the same crossover
points and slopes and I'm using Hybrid L3 mids.that can play down to 300hz easily. Also the stage only extended from the left pillar to the right edge of the steering wheel.


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*



k im in


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Anymore updates?


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## TEARfromRED (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

this going to happen?


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

cricket cricket


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Sorry guys, I got busy with some unexpected business travel recently to the craphole of the western hemisphere and have had only two short opportunities for seat time with the system in the past two weeks. 

Briefly, I will say this, with the default auto-tune settings previously listed, the system sounded excellent at higher volumes. At low volume, the sound stage was too low and the tweets were almost silent in the mix. As Lycan pointed out, it kinda sounds like a tweet/super tweet setup.

In setting my own x-over filters and tuning, with the goal of getting more range out of the mid and raising the stage -I haven't been able to get it to sound as good as the default auto-tune.

I have run the mid as low as 400hz, but it sounds tinny and doesn't have much authority when playing that low. It sounds much better above 800 hz.

The midbass response is really very impressive, better than the HAT, slightly warmish (but not Scan-like warmth).

The tweets are they weakest link in the set. They are more laid back compared to HAT, but they don't have the HAT clarity. I haven't played them below 5khz yet.

I probably won't post another update for another week or two, when my time frees up more.


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## kunstmilch (Aug 1, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I will be looking forward to it. I am really curious about these as I am very slow in getting my gear. After having everything stolen once, I have been running stock since. Have a 1999 GMC Suburban now and am debating what speakers to go with, my default would be Dynaudio, but I have the same curiosity as you posted. That is, is this designed as a system, and hence blooms with its own rather than other speaks.

When you get the time, it's much appreciated.


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

any updates on this review?


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

very interested. i remember the old PRS component... always tried to find one of the old sets again without luck. i have always been a huge pioneer fan, so thanks for trying them out.


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

agreed, i like pioneer too, always have.

i regret getting rid of my prs midrange's. i wish i could find them again.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*



pjc said:


> very interested. i remember the old PRS component... always tried to find one of the old sets again without luck. i have always been a huge pioneer fan, so thanks for trying them out.


i've got 3 sets of the mids and 2 sets of tweeters. best mids i have used in a car so far. a LOT more snap and authority than my Adire Extremis or Dyn MW160's. i love these pioneer mids !! beastly good looking too. look just like the PRS subs!


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

the new prs subs? i was talking about the 4inch midrange that are just about impossible to find


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## Resonant (Mar 20, 2011)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Wish I could afford these!


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Sorry for the lack of updates on this. Work has been breaking my balls for a while now, and what little free time I've had in the last few months has been spent fighting an MS-8 install in another vehicle.

I've been slowly accumulating testing equipment to attempt to do this eval some justice, but I'm not opposed to lending these out to someone who has the expertise and equipment to do a proper evaluation.


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## jaben (Dec 5, 2010)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I've been thinking about getting these, so little info anywhere. Anyone else have any comments they would like to share.


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## mullenmullen (May 1, 2010)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I purchased a set of these when they first came out.the build of the midwoofers is very nice.the crossovers are also very well built.i had a hell of a time getting the midrange,which i really like.very well built,along with a nice sealed baffle. the tweeters look ok,but not as nicely built as the rest of the system.i have been putting a system together for the last couple of years.i have amassed a closet full of components and i am finally ready to install.i will let you know how it sounds soon.i will be using a pioneer p99rs and 2 masterstroke classe a amps and 1 masterstroke 1500;obviously active.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*



mullenmullen said:


> I purchased a set of these when they first came out.the build of the midwoofers is very nice.the crossovers are also very well built.i had a hell of a time getting the midrange,which i really like.very well built,along with a nice sealed baffle. the tweeters look ok,but not as nicely built as the rest of the system.i have been putting a system together for the last couple of years.i have amassed a closet full of components and i am finally ready to install.i will let you know how it sounds soon.i will be using *a pioneer p99rs and 2 masterstroke classe a amps and 1 masterstroke 1500*;obviously active.


Sounds like a hell of a system... 

Kelvin


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## kunstmilch (Aug 1, 2009)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Hey Mullenmullen...not to bust your balls, as I'm the last person who has the right to say this, but, I think soon has come and gone...


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## spaceace60 (Feb 28, 2011)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

Possible help?? I bought the stage 4(2 5/8)mids but didn't get the rest of the set(ie.the component x-over or 4way P99 HU) Im using Polk SR6500's(6 1/2)in lower doors along w/the polk tweets up near the little mids(stage4) in dash and was i wondering should i just get caps on each end of these stage 4's (using seperate amp like M25 PG)which may have a lpf setting? main issue what i can do to get these playing the right freqs?? i could use use front rca's(internal HU x-over)for both ends of freq's on stage 4 and rear w/no(maybe lpf of 125 or so before going into PR6500's own passive X-over?) use internal X-over in amp on rear fills fills/subs??(story short 4way spkr system but 3way Hu)unlike p99?? thanks 4 any input Jim btw also got alpine 701 processor in mix(think its 3way as well(except center ch)


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## spaceace60 (Feb 28, 2011)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

DISREGARD ABOVE MUMBO JUMBO LOL! 


spaceace60 said:


> Possible help?? I bought the stage 4(2 5/8)mids but didn't get the rest of the set(ie.the component x-over or 4way P99 HU) Im using Polk SR6500's(6 1/2)in lower doors along w/the polk tweets up near the top of doors and little mids(stage4) in dash! and kicker cvt 6.5's(low mid 80hz-300hz) for rear fill all run thru an alpine 900bt Hu and h701/rux combo just wondering as im getting the pioneer Dex99 stage4 Hu and wondered with all the features that it contains do i even need the 701 setup anymore or is it one less item i can do w/o in the chain? btw let me say i got the stage4 prs t062(2"5/8)mids and can't say enuff about them! infact if i run across another set at a good price im added them too!,so if the rest of the stage4 stuff is this good then i want more of it! now alot of ppl say they run the little mids starting up high like 800hz on up but im running them down around 200-300hz on low side? not sure if thats wrong or not?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

way too low!

(actually, if you like it, and it's not distorting the midranges, then it's your preference?)

I would try the P99's DSP capability before getting rid of the Alpine processor/controller. You may find there is some small thing the Alpine does for you that isn't replicated by the in-board unit on the P99.


but as a whole, I'd say you could do well enough with just the P99 in the chain.


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## casey (Dec 4, 2006)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*

I had these mid ranges and midbasses in my 99 civic playing 2 way active. I was crossing the mid ranges at 400hz on my 99 with no distortion. I did not get the tiny sound the op was mention.

I do no have a whole bunch to compare them to but I can attest that they are excellent midranges. I would like another pair for a rainy day and kind of kicking myself for selling them.


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## spaceace60 (Feb 28, 2011)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*



spaceace60 said:


> DISREGARD ABOVE MUMBO JUMBO LOL!
> 
> 
> spaceace60 said:
> ...


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

*Re: Pioneer Stage 4 Comps – The Audition*



spaceace60 said:


> UPDATEcar has been in limbo awhile!) ready to start tinkering w/audio in it again due to selling a cpl of audio items outa of it!! I may try going up a bit on the low side from 250/300hz on the S062Prs's to say 400/450 even though someone recomended 800hz or so pretty sure i'm safe as i've had them as low as 150hz/200hz fairly loud and they handled it!!(i'm guessing i try to hard to get as much bottom end up front as i can???)however i didn't really notice alot of distortion at that setting(300hz) outta these(maybe due to other spkrs playing idk? or by not putting 500w to them who knows?)but goin up a bit mainy out of fear of damaging the little guys lol!(i did accidently blow one due to memory settings on my Alpine h701 x-over section!)i forgot to store settings in memory and when i turned unit back off/on it later it was in default and x-over was set too low on them and all other spkrs were playing fairly loud and it fried!! i almost cried as pioneer won't sell just one of these puppies and they are a bit pricey!! BTW these ARE NOT rebuildable(pioneer has NO replacement parts for them! i will say the company did me right and was nice enough to pro rate them and gave me a good price on a replacement set for $175(thank God!) i tried to buy back the other unblown spkr for a back up and no go! it probably went in their trash lol!!!!so now i baby them a little more lol! but i am on the hunt for a second set of these to put in!!(as they do really kickass!)probably one of the best items other than the Dex p-99HU!! that Pioneer ever built!! Does anyone have results on the rest of the stage4 line??(as someone mentioned the 6.5's look like a rehash from the premier line?)what about the subs?? they any better than say the Alpine type-X subs(or just over rated/over priced?)thanks Jim



This is painful to read. I didn't even try to comprehend what you typed. I doubt anyone else will either. 

You will have better success if you edit your post to be much easier to read and understand.


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