# Candisa's 2000 Renault Clio



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Hi,

I found this forum a while ago and it gave me a different look on caraudio.  
I tried a lot of caraudio gear before, wasted a lot of money, but even with lots of tuning and customizing, didn't like the result of it.  
I sold almost everything and slammed some cheap fullrange speakers in my doors, on a basic Pioneer headunit. Doesn't sound high-end, but at least it didn't cost me a fortune...  

The car:
2000 Renault Clio 1.9 diesel (stupid belgian taxes/gasprices)
Summermode:








Changed the front tires with some lower profiles and dropped the nose a bit more:








Wintermode (stock suspension, cheap rims with mud&snow tires):









The fullrange speakers I listen to at the moment:
Visaton FR10-4








Doesn't sound bad actually and funny but true, the stage is on my dashboard


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

After wasting lots of money on new gear my 'caraudiodealer' recommended, and selling the whole bunch again, I bought myself some good old Genesis amps:

Genesis Four Channel and Stereo 100:









The Stereo 100 had some scratches on it and I could sell it for the price I bought it, so I sold it and bought myself a nicer Stereo 100 (for less money than the first one  ) and a Dual Mono:








Got a Genesis screwdriver with it


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

More oldskool stuff:

An AudioControl EQX I bought for cheap:









Since I'm going 3-way + sub and the EQX has only a 2-way crossover on board, I needed a 3-way crossover. Since I already had the EQX, I searched for a matching grey AudioControl crossover... And found one, a 4XS:









PS.: AudioControl writes funny manuals


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

So I got the amps and the crossovers, now time for some drivers. 
Instead of buying some expensive caraudio gear, I tought, most of the guys on diyma use DIY gear and are very happy with it, wo why should I pay more?

After checking what I could find here in Belgium, what is affordable and what people here on diyma are happy with, I chose to go for a full Peerless install.

First thing I searched for was a subwoofer. I always used sealed boxes, but I liked the idea of passive radiators, so I bought:
A Peerless XXLS 12" 4ohm home-audio subwoofer:








And 2 Peerless XLS 10" 400gr passive radiators:









Why 2 10" pr's? 
- I read it was recommended to have the PR surface 1.5-2 times the subwoofer size. According to WinISD, in the same box, 2 10" XLS 400gr PR's give pretty much the same result as the 1 12" XLS 425gr PR that Peerless recommends with the 12" XXLS
- Imagine, a 12" sub with to the left and to the right of it a 10" 'sub', how cool is that?


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Time to start building a box for those...

Peerless recommends a 40L enclosure. I like a subwoofer to play LOW, it doesn't have to be loud, if it goes loud enough to keep up with the frontset, it's okay for me, but it really has to go loooooow...
So I played with WinISD for a while and concluded an enclosure of 55-60L should do what I want it to do. With the same power applied, it has a lower output as the recommended enclosure, but the output in the 20-35Hz range is a lot better, while the power handling stays good enough for my needs.

I wanted to do something different than just building a box and dropping it in the trunk, I wanted to see the sub and pr's in my mirror, without losing sight in the rear-side windows. I'll install a rear-view-camera to see what's directly behind me, so I don't care the rear window is blocked by the enclosure...

I came up with this shape:








To be continued...


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

After reading and asking a lot, I decided my frontset will be this:
Midbasswoofers: Peerless HDS Nomex 8"
Midrange: Peerless HDS Exclusive 5.25"
Tweeters: Peerless HDS

But before I buy this stuff, I have to get my DLS Iridium 6i's sold. I don't like spending money on things, before I got rid of the things it has to replace...

I'm a girl with a lot on my mind, and also a bit lazy, so this project will take a while :blush: 

So, that's it for now...

greetingz,
Isabelle


----------



## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

Looks like a good plan. I think it will sound a little better than what you have now. Sorry to hear about the trouble with your previous systems/installers.


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Trouble is a big word... The problem is there are only a few people that are really interested in good sound, so there are only a couple of shops that sell 'SQ stuff'...

Those shops exist for a long time and built their reputation... Now they still have their reputation, but don't really recommend good combinations anymore, they just use their reputation to sell expensive stuff with big profits...  
When you complain about the result, their answer is that this is the best you can get for the budget, but you can approve the result by replacing 1 or 2 components with something more expensive, when you do that, some other problems occur with the same answer, and so on, and so on... 
All they want more than money, is more money. They don't care anymore about happy customers...  

I wasted a lot of money discovering that, but now they can put their expensive crap where they don't like it, I go oldskool + DIY!  

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## rimshot (May 17, 2005)

You go girl! I have ALOT of respect for women in car audio, we need many more like you Isabelle! By the way the clio is a great car and I love the Euro style wheels with the deep dish in the back, its a great look. Please keep us informed about the progress of your install!!


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

BMM was giving a 10% discount on orders placed this weekend, so I just ordered the tweeters and mids today. 

They're in stock, but the banks aren't working until Tuesday, so I guess they'll recieve the money by the end of the week and I'll recieve the gear next week  

My DLS 6i's aren't sold yet and I have still lots of stuff to do before I can begin with the doorpanels, so I'll wait to order the midbasswoofers.

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Good on you for going the DIY route. I think that you'll be very happy once everything is in and tuned. Cool car too. I had one of those when I was living in Germany back in '02.

Zach


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks  

I'm just stuck with my DLS 6i's, bought them new a couple of years ago, only fitted them once, never played with them, but they just won't get sold  

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## malducato1 (Feb 26, 2008)

Nice Clio, I miss seeing all the European cars since I moved back to states and this bring backs some nice memories.


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Is there not a big market for used car audio gear in Belgium? What about Ebay or a EU Ebay variant?

Zach


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

There is a big market for cheap used car audio gear in Belgium... Good stuff that isn't ridiculously low priced doesn't sell. I rather keep my Iridiums than selling them for a penny.

The Iridiums are good units, I like the sound of them, but I have to put a larger amp on it to get as low and loud compared to an 8", I don't need the higher frequency response since I'm going 3-ways + sub, that's why I'd like to sell them... for the price they're worth 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## zucchero (Mar 25, 2008)

congrats thats a nice car


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks, my Brock rims are for sale tho... 
The offset of the front rims is a bit too low and I want something bigger and wider on the rear axle, so I don't want to waste money to make the rear wheels fit properly (the wheel arches need to be customized because they are eating my rear tires) and end up having to do them over when I buy other rims...

The Vredestein tires (All-Seasons with M+S label) on the TSW's give good grip, even at higher temperatures, and I think the TSW's don't look bad under the Clio. Some spacers on the rear axle wouldn't hurt tho'...

It's a daily driver, so I'll focus on getting the install and interior done, the exterior can wait...

While waiting on the mids and tweeters, between putting layers of polyester on my subwoofer enclosure, I'm busy with my seats...

To be continued...


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Hey Isabelle,

Don't tell me you are doung your own seats, as well!  

Is there anything you can't do?

Can't wait to see the end result....

Keep up the pics!

Mark


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

I'm making most of my own clothes myself, seats are a lot easier actually...

Anything I can't do? Welding, making inox/aluminium subwoofer/speaker spacers...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Candisa said:


> I'm making most of my own clothes myself, seats are a lot easier actually...
> 
> Anything I can't do? Welding, making inox/aluminium subwoofer/speaker spacers...
> 
> ...


So when do you take the welding course?  

inox? Not sure I know what that is... maybe called something different down gere in OZ?

Mark


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

inox... euhm, steel that doesn't rust? 

Welding isn't my 'dada', I can work with wood and I'm starting to get pretty good with polyester, think that's enough 'dirty work' for a woman 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Oh, ok.. thanks,

We call it "Stainless Steel" down here in OZ!  (simple, aren't we?)

Special mix of metals and alloys to resist rust.....

Looking forward to the progress...

Mark


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> Looking forward to the progress...


Me too


----------



## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Candisa! great work on the Clio! Im a big fan of the Sport 182 Cup! Funny that your from Belgium (flemish, dutch or french or all 3?) as my flat mate is also from belgium! I lorv belgian beer! So greetings from Sydney Australia.
Good luck with the car! Lorv the ol' school gear. Im a Orion fan spesh the HCCA stuff.


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

My Clio has almost the same size of engine as the sport, 1900cc... too bad its a diesel with only 64 horsepower 

The dutch people live in The Netherlands, in Belgium you have Flandres in the north where I live, we speak flemish, wich is actually dutch, but with a whole lot of local dialects. In the south you have Wallonie where they speak something thats close to french.

We have great beer indeed, very sucky when you're used to that and then drink something that's crap when you're in another country 

Sometimes you can find some nice oldskool stuff for very low prices, I can't resist buying them, just to have it. I have a Caliber CA70 (white competition series, 2x35W RMS by 4ohm) laying around. Bought 2 of them in 1 deal for 35 euro shipped, sold 1 for 50 euro shipped, shipping costs were a little less than 15 euro, so I actually got the one I still have for free!  I also have 2 Soundstream SS8's I found for 40 euro, a Soundstream Exact 12" I bought for 30 euro, and at the moment, I'm expecting some <50 euro offers for a Caliber CA660 and another four channel white Caliber Competition 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

As said before, I ordered my mids and tweeters in the Easter weekend, but since I live in Belgium and BMM is in holland, somebody got the last pair of 5.25" Exclusives they had in stock in the time the money transaction needed from my account to theirs, so they were in backorder for a while.

Yesterday, the package arrived:
















Nice packaging work, just like I expected since my sub, pr's and fullrange-speakers I got earlier were also very well packaged...  

...wich was no overkill this time, you can't blame Peerless to spend lots of money on their 'packaging'...  









Luckily they do spend money on building nice drivers  










At the moment, I'm putting layers of polyester resin + glassfibremats on my subwoofer enclosure, but now it has to wait for a while...
I'm already late for the annual technical check-up, so I have to bolt the right seat back in with a seat cover over it (since I didn't have the time to finish it by now). I will probably have to go back since the exhaust isn't in great shape and there will probably be some wear on some small parts, but it's better to go asap and get a limited approval (2 weeks probably), than being pulled over without a valid technical report...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## brendan 67 (Mar 12, 2007)

Cool.Bet you cant wait to hear those.Still going to do 8s as well?Whats the plan for front stage mounting?


----------



## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

I do have to agree with you, a good looking box is nice (the genesis crates comes to mind) but honestly when it's stuff you use the boxes only takes up space. And you know you'll protect the resale value when keeping the nice box. Thanks to Peerless I can just get som new well and say in brand new original pacageing...


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

I'd love to hear them, but that doesn't mean I will throw them in in a hurry, both tweeters and midwoofers need to end up in the dashboard, wich will be quite a challenge, because they don't only have to fit, they also have to be at the right places and the right angles, since I'm not using time-alignment  

I still want 8's in my doors, maybe even 2 per door, but I'm still having those DLS Iridium 6's laying around, and I'm not planning to spend money on new midbasswoofers as long as those Iridiums don't get sold, so in the worst case, they'll end up in the doors and stay there for a while. 
If they get sold, I'll probably go for Peerless 8" SLS. I was planning to go with 8" HDS Nomexes, because they are more efficient, but the SLS's have a lot more Xmax and I read so much good things about them on this board, I won't risk spending more money (not that there is such a big difference, but money is money...) on the Nomexes and end up being disapointed.

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

That car is super cool. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I could. Especially diesel! Why the hell can't a person get a diesel car in the USA???? In europe I swear two thirds of the cars on the road are diesel these days. My auto tech teacher back in high school a few years ago told us he went to europe and rented a ford focus and it was diesel. Where's that option at the ford dealer here?


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Yep, most of the cars here are diesels, but I think Liquid Petrol Gas will have its comeback very soon. Gas prices are going up and up and up. You really don't have to drive a lot anymore to win back the install and extra taxes in just a couple of years...
A couple of years ago, super gas was cheaper than diesel now, and back then, it was already expensive compared to the prices in the USA! Thats why we have BMW 316's and 318's, Renault Clio 1.2's... and of course a lot of diesels over here...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

That's why I drive a 3cylinder Chevy Metro. Gas is up to $3.50/gal here. Probably nowhere near as high as it is there though. But it still sucks. $120/month in gas and I get 40mpg! How much is gas there? 

If only I could get a small diesel engine in my metro...


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Gas is 1.50-1.60 euro/liter and diesel is 1.20-1.30 euro/liter over here.

A gallon is 4.55 liter and a dollar is 0.644 euro, so that means gas is around 10 dollar/gallon and diesel 8.20 dollar/gallon over here!

My car needs 7l/100km wich is also about 40mpg (it's a 1.9litre with no turbo to help reduce the mileage...)

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

kimokalihi said:


> That's why I drive a 3cylinder Chevy Metro. Gas is up to $3.50/gal here. Probably nowhere near as high as it is there though. But it still sucks. $120/month in gas and I get 40mpg! How much is gas there?
> 
> If only I could get a small diesel engine in my metro...


We are paying around $7.00 AUD per gallon here in Australia!  

Hey Isabelle,

Good to see your package arrived..  

I hope you get them fitted reasonably soon... I'm sure you can't wait to hear them..

Mark


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> I hope you get them fitted reasonably soon... I'm sure you can't wait to hear them..


Well, actually, I'm not the 'I got it, now I'll slam it asap in my car' type of girl. The only reason I already bought them is because BMM was giving nice discounts at Easter, I have a lot of stuff to do before I can even think of installing those mids and tweeters...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Yeah, I read your earlier posts about the Tech Inspection..

Hopefully all goes well with that, and you can get back to the important things.... Car Audio and interior retrims! 

I'm sure you will get it all together soon enough...

Mark


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

That's scary. It means that you guys have accepted $10/gallon fuel prices and it means that we'll eventually be up that high as well. How could I pay nearly $400 a month for gas? I couldn't. That's insane. Imagine those fools driving SUVs around and huge lifted trucks...


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

It's accepting it, or leaving the car in the garage. Luckily Belgium is a small country with everything close to eachother...

I'll go to the inspection centre this afternoon, I won't bolt the right seat back in, I will have to go back anyway, so that gives me 2 weeks time to finish the right seat and have everything that has to be fixed, fixed. It's only the first inspection that costs some money (a little less than 40 euro, so about 60dollar), the second, third, fourth... time costs only 9 euro (about 13 dollar). Everytime you go, unless the car is really a danger to drive, you get at least 2 weeks before you have to go back. 
If you get pulled over with an out of date technical report, you risk loosing your car, so I won't risk that!

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## martycash (Feb 24, 2008)

I wouldn't say anyone accepts 10/gal fuel price or any high price for that matter,

but what can we do???????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Well since we're still buying big cars with fossil fuel burning engines the gas price is still not as high as it should be is it?

for the record I have 3 cars and a bike, all on petrol and none of them has even remotely the milage of the Clio. Last month I payed about $1000 in fuel alone. Our petrol prices are the same as Candisas.


----------



## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

kimokalihi said:


> If only I could get a small diesel engine in my metro...


Why would you want to do that? Diesel is even more expensive than unleaded. Makes a lot of sense for something that is less refined to be more expensive, NOT. Let's put it to those truck drivers though, so prices for everything go up.


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

It would make sense of Diyma to have no girls and then bam...one arrives more knowledgeable then most of us!

Good job on the Clio. That is a very good choice of drivers too. As far as the HDS vs. SLS you might want to try modeling them with some box software. I recommended a very similar setup to a friend of mine and it was working great. Now it gets sold from friend to friend when they update vehicles  

The diesel is actually a really good way to haul ass and sub boxes. The torque is great down below where you need it and diesel is cheaper than gas for you guys. I drove the newer 16V gas Clio the past two summers in Europe and I kicked some ass on anything diesel up to 2liters turbo or not turbo in twisties. I love passing people on the wrong side of the road, about the only time I get a blood rush driving. U.S. freeways don't do it for me. However, once you add weight the gas Clio is not so potent anymore. The diesel keeps going  

I lowered my car recently too. To prevent the tire from rubbing against the fender you can do a few things:
use a rubber mallet to pound the fender lip in 
Take off or trim splash guards
Get an adjustable camber kit and drop a degree or two of negative camber (you'll love it when it hugs the turns, not so much when it eats your tire prematurely, but hey you get that anyways might as well get something out of it)

As far as gas prices go. The U.S. gallon is 3.8L the UK one is 4.5L. Funny thing is diesel is $4.2 dollars a gallon here while gas is $3.65. It makes no sense to drive a diesel, especially since we need a lot of HP on our roads. I have my guesses why diesel is expensive but not sure they are good enough. You socialist countries guys need to remember a large chunk of you gas money is a state tax that eventually makes its way back to the consumer. You still pay higher prices for petrol though...


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Pretty funny that diesel is quite a bit more expensive than gas in some parts of the world  

On the other hand, it might make sense, since gas is a cleaner fuel, so they want to stimulate that, and for light cars, it's ideal. I'm glad diesel is cheaper than gas over here, because I'm not planning on making a light install  


About the car:
As anounced, I went to the technical inspection centre yesterday. I expected to have 2 weeks time to get some things done and have soms wear on a couple of parts, but... 
- My parking lights don't work: they didn't even check it!
- My license plate light doesn't work: they didn't even check it!
- The mounting plates of the front suspension are a bit bended: they didn't see it!
- No wear on mechanical parts, so I don't have to replace things this time!
- When I hit the brake pedal, my brake lights work, but also the dashboard lights up when the lights are off (probably a bad mass somewhere): only a recommendation to check the wiring, since the brake lights work fine
- There is a leak in my exhaust: they heard it, but they couldnt see where the leak was --> only a recommendation to inspect the exhaust a bit closer
- The plastic protection plate beneath the engine misses some parts (probably lost them last summer, since my Clio was pretty low then) --> you don't have to have that plate beneath the engine --> no problem
- That same plate was a bit greasy: recommendation to check cooling liquid and oil regularly (I do that and it doesn't use more oil or water than it used to, so it was probably some old oil from the last oil change)
- The right seat and half of the rest of the interior is missing or loose D): warning! (duh  )

Result: Valid technical inspection report with a limited period of 3 months!  

Positive: 
- I've got 3 months (in stead of the 2 weeks I expected) to complete the right seat, put the most important interior parts back in and fix the things they'll probably see when I go back (some lights that don't work and the leaking exhaust).  
Downsides: 
- I won't drive low this summer, because the low suspension I use in the summertime it too low to get trough the technical inspection, and since I can't change the front suspension myself, it isn't worth the money to change it now, change it back before the next inspection, change it again after the next inspection, and then again change it before next winter... I can live with that, caraudio is more important at the moment and I might be able to park on the camping of a festival this summer in stead of leaving my car on the street  
- Since I got an inspection report that is 3 months valid in stead of 2 weeks, I'll probably have to pay full price again at the next inspection (but I'll save money by not swapping the suspension for this summer, so I can live with that)

I also asked them if it was okay to move the battery to the trunk --> Since it's a sealed battery, it's okay for them, as long as it can't move around and I use proper cable and a fuse  

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

pfffff..... I was finally able to catch up . Guess I'll have to drop by some time to see what's happened since the last time (and to drop off that distribution-block that's wandering around for almost a year now :blush. Thanks for letting me use it though


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> It would make sense of Diyma to have no girls and then bam...one arrives more knowledgeable then most of us!


2 of them actually I've introduced her to DIY, and eversince we both are pretty well known in the Belgian and Dutch SQ-scene for breaking the rules and go against public opinion 

The Belgian and Dutch scene is an all commercial business, based on profitable high-priced mid-quality products really. Some time ago we pretty much started a riot on some fora because we were all about the home-audio drivers. Gave them the facts, and they couldn't even fight back properly so they started name-calling and sh!t..... really sad!


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Really sad indeed, knowing that a lot of caraudio brands just buy DIY drivers and put their logo and a way higher price tag on it...

The name calling and **** is the best proof they can't argue, doing that in public only hurts *their* reputation and opens the eyes of people that have some working brains in their head. 

A friend of mine told me today to keep the Iridiums aside for him, so they should be sold the first time I meet him again (he lives almost at the other side of Belgium, so we only meet a couple times per year). I'm glad they go to a friend so it doesn't feel so bad I had to sell them for a second-hand price...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

yeah well, I spoke to one of the more knowledgeable guys on another forum an he was "home drivers? they're for the home!" His loss 

most of the germans don't believe in this stuff either and what I've seen of Finnish installations... let's put it like this: they're either BLING BLING or just not inspiring. I'm not sure what it's like in Norway or Sweden - though I figure there is a bit more money available there. Anyway. BMM have screwed up on the delivery times for my 27TFFNs (grrr!) so I have to wait some more. They also don't seem too keen on receiving emails after you've ordered? I'm not going to worry about it, it's just mildly annoying. 

ignore the trolls, they're not worth it. 

XC: those drivers aren't that expensive, either? so you'll have really annoyed them by showing where they spent too much money for too little SQ 

Bret


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

XC-C30 said:


> 2 of them actually I've introduced her to DIY, and eversince we both are pretty well known in the Belgian and Dutch SQ-scene for breaking the rules and go against public opinion
> 
> The Belgian and Dutch scene is an all commercial business, based on profitable high-priced mid-quality products really. Some time ago we pretty much started a riot on some fora because we were all about the home-audio drivers. Gave them the facts, and they couldn't even fight back properly so they started name-calling and sh!t..... really sad!


Ha Ha! Yeah...it takes a while even for the sharpest tools to get their minds open. Plenty of dust sprinkled egos to fight. I'd imagine it can only be worst here in U.S. I mean, we have a very aggressive marketing culture, especially in the car audio industry. Ever challenged a Dynaudio guy? You know, the ones that wear the S on the chest...


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

I took place in a dyn/JL car once...... from a respected installer even...... WTF:O I ran out as quickly as I could, candisa was there too.... Mostly, it had to do with the tuning probably though. But still, if I were to be a well respected installer, I'd never let any people take place in the driver seat if I know my system is faulty! I guess the guy is deaf as can be, becaus to him it sounded pretty good, apart from a few -to him- minor flaws


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Bretti kivi: not all products they list are on stock, so it's possible they have to order it themselves and it takes a couple of days before they're in. I ordered twice at bmm and I didn't have any issues. In the order confirmation, you normally get a link where you can see the status of your order...
To mail them, just reply to the order confirmation, I've always had response from them in half a day.

cvjoint, xenia: that car was terrible to listen at indeed. It uses Dynaudio esotar 2 home audio tweeters, oldskool Dynaudio mids (not the MD140, but the way to expensive ones), 8" DLS Iridiums and 2 JL W0's mounted IB in the rear deck. All powered by Steg Masterstroke amps.  
It used to have the older esotar tweeters and MD140 mids and it used to be powered by Audison and Genesis amps, it was one of the best sounding cars back then, the last time I heard it, it was almost the worst I ever heard  
He blames it on the f*cking EMMA cd! He claims the newest emma cd is recorded totally out of balance and his install is tuned to do sq games... Well, Xenia and I listened to the EMMA cd in that car, it was a little bit better than 'normal' music, but still terrible.  
I blame it on matching (I had Steg amps myself, not the masterstrokes but the QM's, I had them active on a Focal Polyglass component set, and later I replaced the tweeters with Dynaudio MD100's, well, it just sounded harsh, knowing that I had Kenwood KAC amps before and they sounded much better!) and tuning (there was no stage, it was subs rumbling in the rear, almost no midbass, midrange floating around in the car and highs screaming from the corners of the dashboard!). 
I dare to say I have a better sound and staging in my car at the moment, with nothing but a couple of $10 4" fullrange Visaton speakers slammed into my doors, and just a little 'eq-ing' on the 3-band eq of my basic old Pioneer deck  
The worst thing of it all, he has a big name and reputation and he uses the most expensive stuff of brands that sponsor all sq games around here, so he always wins in the pro class...  

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

aaaaah sweet memories..... A sony deck with unknown speakers in the back of a french rustbucket.... KICK and sometimes even reasonable staging depending on the music  till the speakers gave up ..... Or maybe we were just too tired to hear the distortion before LOL...... good times good times. And I still see it as a well deserved break after being tortured in that guy's car


----------



## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

bretti_kivi said:


> I'm not sure what it's like in Norway or Sweden - though I figure there is a bit more money available there.


In Norway they do have a bit more cash. In Sweden we don't so we try to get by on skill.  

The regning Best of Sound car in Sweden is on this forum, here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5157

I do compete with my car aswell, and so far I'm unbeaten this season.  
The tweaking is getting quite right now...
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23782



Candisa said:


> He blames it on the f*cking EMMA cd! He claims the newest emma cd is recorded totally out of balance and his install is tuned to do sq games... Well, Xenia and I listened to the EMMA cd in that car, it was a little bit better than 'normal' music, but still terrible.


I'm no fan of the disc either, it lacks sub 40 Hz information and does not have enough tonally challeging parts, BUT when a system is getting close to sound "right" something very interresting happens. It starts to sound good!

And those cars can play any music with ease.


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Yeah comps don't appeal to me so far. It feels too much like snobish dicking around and I don't feel like wrapping my cables in zipties. I never understood why some of these folks go to great lenghts to Dynamat the bottom of the car several times, none of the judging is done in a mobile environment where road noise would be subdued. So far competition cars that I have heard have two things in common: as many speakers as possible on the dash and weak midbass and sub bass resolution. I do see how the Emma cds don't have enough content down low. However I do love the -18db recording average, amazing dynamics (up to -1db) and no clipped samples.

I would much rather use the time I would otherwise spend on cleaning cables to try more speakers out, that's arguably the best part about our sport. I've stumbled over some amplifier differences too. I changed from the Polks which are generally tame to the ARC XXK which for some reason brought out a lot of sibilance out of the Seas Lotus RT25s. To this day I still can't explain why since both are low distortion and would go flat to 20khz and I don't dare bring up amp sq threads back from the dead, the "objectivists" would eat me alive.

Never sat in a Dynaudio dealer car but the Audison one sounds the same from your description. It almost made me puke a little. So much expensive gear...Hertz Mille, thesis amps the list goes on. The audition was that of an obese spoiled teenager calling for his mom. Annoying at every level, the sub had tinsel slap, no stage whatsoever and I could swear those passive xovers were saturated.


----------



## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> Yeah comps don't appeal to me so far. It feels too much like snobish dicking around


(We seem to have gotten a bit of subject but if Isabella don't mind...)
The purpose of the competetions is not snobbery, I know quite a few people in the EMMA leading positions and they are all saying one thing -car audio is meant to be fun. 
I find it a great place to listen to a lot of different cars and finding ideas to what to improve. That and the fact that my own cars would never be finished unless I competed. :blush: 



cvjoint said:


> and I don't feel like wrapping my cables in zipties.


Not requred if you pick the advanced class. I have zipties in my doors only to protect from the window mechanism. On the internal of my car they are simply tucked under the carpet. And I had full points on installation at tthe 2007 euro championships.



cvjoint said:


> I never understood why some of these folks go to great lenghts to Dynamat the bottom of the car several times, none of the judging is done in a mobile environment where road noise would be subdued.


Two reasons:
1. They actually drive their cars.
2. To keep out bass waves from other car's demoing at the same time as the judgeing.




cvjoint said:


> So far competition cars that I have heard have two things in common: as many speakers as possible on the dash and weak midbass and sub bass resolution.


We don't requre a specific mounting, but a specific stage. I've been part of building a competetion car this year with only a 2way set in the kick panels. (Seas RW220 + RT27F) It also has 3 12"s in the back and a 2 kW amp on that
I think few people would find it weak in the bass range...  



cvjoint said:


> I would much rather use the time I would otherwise spend on cleaning cables to try more speakers out, that's arguably the best part about our sport.


Fully agreed, I love speakers. A little to much according to my wife...  



cvjoint said:


> I've stumbled over some amplifier differences too. ... I still can't explain why since both are low distortion and would go flat to 20khz and I don't dare bring up amp sq threads back from the dead, the "objectivists" would eat me alive.


Well, people who can't hear amplifier differencies are lucky arn't they. They can get much cheaper ones then us fools...


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

All that is fine and dandy, I see you are more down to earth that most folks who compete but how is a competition ever better than a meet? At a meet there is no requirement to bring your ride in....it is ALL for fun...no one walks out with a gold medal.

I'm sure your car would never get done but what wrong with that?  Do you want it to be done?

You're talking to a guy who just exhausted the suspension glue off a Seas W26. Midbass is a rare commodity and hard to achieve no matter how much power you are willing to throw at it. Sub bass is much easier, although if you are searching for a spot at ear level to place your sub you may come short on that too.


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Well, I think, as long as you do what you really want and enjoy it, go for it. I'm sure a lot of people would be happy with the sound and the staging I get from a couple of cheap 4" fullrange speakers, slammed into my doors, powered by an 'old' Pioneer DEH-1630R, other people love to customize their complete interior just to get the soundstage that tiny bit more into position.

I'm planning to compete again when this install gets done, maybe next year, maybe 2010, maybe 2012, I don't know... I am willing to do some things I wouldn't do if I weren't planning to compete, if they don't affect the way I can enjoy the system. Like snaking all wires trough snakeskin and finishing them off with heatshrink... Why not, it's tidier, a bit more protected, isn't that much work/cost to do and it won't affect the sound in a bad way...

About 'SQ-sound' and amplifier sound. My previous install was a Focal Polyglass component set powered by a Steg QM105.4x and a Cerwin Vega Vmax subwoofer powered by a Steg QM120.2x, processed by an Alto Mobile UCS Pro. To me it didn't sound that good as with the Kenwood KAC-8401 and KAC-7201 amps I had before, it sounded thinner, airier, less ambient, but it did get nice sound-scores on emma games.

I don't want that anymore, I want it to sound enjoyable to me, I don't care if emma judges will say my subwoofer and midrange is a deebee or two too loud and not 'tight' enough, I want to feel like headbanging and pushing the trottle to the metal when I play some Judas, I want to feel like shaking when I play some carnivalistic music, I want to feel like leaning back and driving 10mph too slow when I play some classical/jazz... 
I don't want to feel like sitting in a studio and analysing the slightest detail in every song, but I do want an install that's build by the rules of art, a nice soundstage and a complete frequency response without huge gaps/dips/bumps in it and I'm sure when I get that right, it won't matter that much in my score that my car doesn't sound 'analytic', especially because you also get extra points when your car is enjoyable to listen to instead of just 'sounding right'...

It's a hobby and it's all about having fun, I do have fun customizing my entire interior to get a better sound and staging, I do have fun putting layers of dynamat on every part of my car, because in the end, it will give me satisfaction driving around in a small concert hall in stead of a rattling tin-can with a couple of speakers slammed in to it  

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Candisa said:


> It's a hobby and it's all about having fun, I do have fun customizing my entire interior to get a better sound and staging, I do have fun putting layers of dynamat on every part of my car, because in the end, it will give me satisfaction driving around in a small concert hall in stead of a rattling tin-can with a couple of speakers slammed in to it
> 
> greetz,
> Isabelle


That statement is so true..

It is a hobby for us all... some of us are able to make a living from it, but it is still a hobby.
I work 54 hours a week selling and installing car audio, and I stll manage to enjoy working on my own car to try and improve my "sound"..

Mark


----------



## martycash (Feb 24, 2008)

It's a hobby and it's all about having fun, I do have fun customizing my entire interior to get a better sound and staging, I do have fun putting layers of dynamat on every part of my car, because in the end, it will give me satisfaction driving around in a small concert hall in stead of a rattling tin-can with a couple of speakers slammed in to it  

greetz,
Isabelle[/QUOTE]


Couldn't have put better myself Isabelle, what you have said probably sums it up for most of us

regards...Marty


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Small update. I'm a bit lazy, but I do make a little progress...

The moments I beat lazyness, I slam a layer of glassfiber to my subwoofer enclosure. 
The angles at the front of the box are really smooth after 3 layers of 300g/m² glassfibre, but I'll add 2 more layers for strength and a finer layer to make it smooth without having to use some kind of filler.
When the enclosure is done, I'll wrap it in the same jeans I used for my seats. 

A good friend of mine has better tools and skills to make precise thing out of wood. It's a bit calm in the company he works for, so he's on minimum wage this month. I asked him to make a couple MDF rings for me to put behind the sub and PR's... It will be cheaper than asking a company to do the job and he'll get a little extra to live with for this month.
I'll put a tin layer of polyester resin on those MDF rings to make them smooth and non-absorbing, and then I'll paint them in the same color as the skai parts of the seats. 
I'll also put a white border between the bordula rings and the jeans-box to make it match even better with the seats.

I'll post some pictures of the box when there is enough glass fibre on it and it's smoothened out, because everybody knows a non-finished glassfibre project isn't beautiful and I don't care about the 'I hope it sound better than it looks' reactions...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

any progress? pics?


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Progress is described above, I'll post some pics soon, but remember, it's a work in progress, not a finished box 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## audiorailroad (Mar 6, 2007)

this is not meant to insult, but why not make use of that awesome exact 12 you said you had? just curious.


----------



## flying bong (Apr 27, 2008)

Candisa said:


> After wasting lots of money on new gear my 'caraudiodealer' recommended, and selling the whole bunch again, *I bought myself some good old Genesis amps*


Great choice of amps 



Candisa said:


> I don't want that anymore, I* want it to sound enjoyable to me*, I don't care if emma judges will say my subwoofer and midrange is a deebee or two too loud and not 'tight' enough, I want to feel like headbanging and pushing the trottle to the metal when I play some Judas, I want to feel like shaking when I play some carnivalistic music, I want to feel like leaning back and driving 10mph too slow when I play some classical/jazz...
> 
> *It's a hobby and it's all about having fun*, I do have fun customizing my entire interior to get a better sound and staging, I do have fun putting layers of dynamat on every part of my car, because in the end, it will give me satisfaction driving around in a small concert hall in stead of a rattling tin-can with a couple of speakers slammed in to it


I couldn't agree more...

Do keep posting on the progress of your install...

Cheers


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

audiorailroad said:


> this is not meant to insult, but why not make use of that awesome exact 12 you said you had? just curious.


Peerless XXLS:
+ I had it before I had the Exact
+ I already started building a box for it befor I had the Exact
+ Allows me to build a PR-system
+ Has a nice low Fs of about 18Hz, so I can play 20-60Hz without playing trough the Fs
+ Allows me to open those 'home-audio is for at home'-eyes with a full DIY-install
Soundstream Exact:
+ It's oldskool
- I was already busy with the xxls-enclosure, so I had to start over
- Makes me build a sealed or ported enclosure like anyone else has over here
- Has an Fs thats too low to play only below it, and too high to play only above it
- Knowing that I already have that XXLS would make those closed-minds say: 'You see that home audio isn't working in a car, she already replaced stuff with caraudio before she let anyone listen to it'
- It would be a terrible waste of some nice oldskool gear to put it in a daily used install and one day maybe blowing it

I have that 12" SS Exact, I have 2 8" SS References, almost every month, I buy a couple of oldskool Caliber Competitions or Kenwood KAC's. I really want to keep the really old vintage stuff together, and one day building a nice 'demo-wall' with it. If I blow that XXLS or some other driver, it ain't no big deal, I just buy a new one, but you won't find an Exact or a couple of SS8's for a low price everyday...


As I said before, I'm a bit of a lazy girl, and I have a lot of stuff on my mind, so this isn't a project that will be finished in half a year 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

AsI recall, the only pics posted of the enclosure were the rough build..... I want to see how far you got up untill now though  Unless progress you made isn't worth it, but knowing you, I think it is


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

As you know, everything I do is something that's might be beautifull and all blingbling, but allways has some use. It's still rough and far from finished, but I'll post a preview as soon as I find the cable of my camera 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Still lot of work to do...


----------



## garvinzoom (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks for the updated pictures, looking good so far.


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks 

A little explination: At the moment there are:
3 layers of 300g/m² glassfibre + resin on the baffle (2 layers + 1 half layer to go)
3 layers of 300g/m² glassfibre + resin on the top (should do the trick)
1 layer of 300g/m² glassfibre + resin at 1 side (has to be 3 or 4 layers per side)
Still have to do the back and add some layers on the baffle + sides
There will be no layers of glassfibre at the bottom, since I'll glue+screw an additional sheet of 30mm MDF to that...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Autophile (Nov 10, 2007)

Why are you covering MDF box with fibreglass externally? I think for stiffness of the box internal cross braces would have been better.


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

There are a few seems that I didn't trust, so I'm making a fiberglass box around the box to make it perfectly airtight. Also, 2 different materials have a different resonance frequency, so a sandwichcontruction will be quieter (as far as 30mm MDF isn't already quiet enough).

There will be a few braces inside that connect the largest panels with eachother too, don't worry, still lots of work to do 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Autophile (Nov 10, 2007)

Candisa said:


> There are a few seems that I didn't trust, so I'm making a fiberglass box around the box to make it perfectly airtight. Also, 2 different materials have a different resonance frequency, so a sandwichcontruction will be quieter (as far as 30mm MDF isn't already quiet enough).
> 
> There will be a few braces inside that connect the largest panels with eachother too, don't worry, still lots of work to do
> 
> ...


I understand all of the above and I think it would have been better and more effective if you had lined the box with fibreglass from inside.


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

I don't want anything but MDF on the inside of the enclosure, I like the sound of a wooden box, I've built glassfiber boxes and glassfiber lined MDF boxes before and nothing beats a good old non-lined MDF based box to me 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

Looks sweet so far  Can I try and drop it off of a tall building?..... See it if holds 

edit: and maybe a few people that can help me carry it to the top floor would be helpful too


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Like it is on those pictures... no... 
but in the meanwhile, I added some layers and bracing, when it's done, it might survive a very high fall 

And a couple people might be needed to carry this thing, indeed 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

I wanted to add some layers of glassfiber to my subwoofer enclosure yesterday, but then I noticed I was out of paint-rolls (I use cheap paint rolls to apply the resin and even out the glassfiber)... 
Then I wanted to finish my seats, but then I broke the needle and I noticed I didn't have any spares... 
Off course all shops were closed on sunday, so I made a little collage of the gear I'll put in my car... but off course, it was a day that everything went wrong, so when I already merged all layers and converted it to jpeg, I noticed I forgot the passive radiators 
Anyhow here it is


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Nice !


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Hey Isabelle,

The system layout looks great!
Don't you just hate those days when nothing goes to plan?

Looking forward to more progress pics...

Mark


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

On pictures that are an acceptable size (both dimensions and kilobytes), it's hard to tell how much layers of glassfibre there are on a large shape. 
There are some layers added since I took the last picture, but I'm pretty sure, if I would take a picture of the enclosure now, at the same time of the day, at the same angle, the picture would look pretty much the same, so it's a bit useless to post tons of pictures that all look the same 

I'll post some pics when I think there is enough bracing in and enough layers of glassfiber on the enclosure and the visible parts are smoothened out, and even then, it won't look very different from the last picture I posted.

This project will take a while to finish, but that gives me time to think things trough and experiment with some stuff, so hopefully, it'll sound better than a 1-afternoon-install 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

I meant on the rest of the system, when you get to that point... 

Mark


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Ow, well... let's not hurry 

At the moment I'm 'busy' with (read: when I have the time and I'm not too lazy, I do something on one of the following parts) the subwoofer enclosure and the seats. 
I have to get the seats done before I need to go back to the technical inspection and I won't start other fiberglass parts before the subwoofer enclosure is finished.

In the meanwhile I'm thinking how the **** I'll get a pair of 5.5" mids and a pair of large format tweeters in a Clio dashboard, because that's the next thing I'm gonna do when I'm done with the sub-box...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Okay, the setup will change again
Original plan versus new plan
Genesis stereo 100 bridged on the sub --> Steg QM240.1x on the sub (same power, but option to ad a second sub later)
Genesis Dual Mono on the midbasswoofers --> bridged Genesis Four Channel on the midbasswoofers (2x150W --> 2x290W)
Genesis Four Channel on mids and tweeters --> Genesis Dual Mono on mids, Stereo 100 on tweeters (4x45W --> 2x75+2x45W)

This wasn't necessary, but I could get that Steg for cheap, so why not...

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

sweetness. There you got something that could blow away the ricefield at meetings  while still retaining SQ


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Well, it'll be louder than planned with the same sound quality indeed.

I don't have multiple kilowattz on my subs, it's still only 500W on 2 12" subs, but it should be enough to keep up with the front set wich has more power on it than all those ricers over here and it gets pretty damn low, so I guess I'll have one of the rare cars (in Belgium that is) that can play music at high volume levels and not just some 'brrrmmmmm brrmmmm thump thump' 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Very nice move !


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Well, I had this plan in my mind from the beginning, but I wasn't willing to spend a lot of money just to get a bit louder, and I wasn't willing to put some crappy amp on my subs neither.

Luckily, I also surf a lot on ad-sites to look if there's something oldskool for sale at a low price (not to use it, just to have it or maybe sell it if I can make a nice profit) and I saw this ad from a girl that just bought a car with some gear in it, but needs the trunk space. 
This deal contains:
- a Steg QM105.4x: I had one before, new price it 515 euro's over here, should be easy to get it sold for 200-250 (I sold mine for 325 with a little patience...),
- a Steg QM240.1x: I'll keep that one to power my sub(s) and
- a JL Audio W3v2 in a nice ported enclosure (couldn't make up if it was a 10 or a 12" on the pictures and the girl that sells everything clearly doesn't know anything about caraudio): new price over here was around 350 euros without an enclosure, so this one should get easily sold for 100 I guess... 

I have to pay... only 225 euros! I'll need about 40 euros of diesel to pick it up, so actually, I can sell the 105.4 and W3v2 for cheap, have that 240.1 and with a little luck still make profit! 

A free amp and the possibility to even get free money... I should be stupid to let this pass 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Long time ago...

In the meanwhile, I simulated a bit more, discussed about the idea over here, and concluded I could pretty much get away with a more efficient 6th order bandpass enclosure, without loosing (too much) SQ.

So I started building:









As you can see, this part has 2 chambers. 
The small chamber at the right-back is made open at the top. Together with the box I made before, this will be the low chamber of the bandpass enclosure.
The rest of the space in this part will form the high chamber. As you can see, I already glued some strips MDF on the left side, this is the beginning of the slotport.

The top and bottom plate is made out of 18mm MDF in stead of 30mm because otherwise the risk of it not fitting in the car would be too big.
Because of the structure of the box, I don't expect any problems because of that.

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Update: 
I'm going to finish the wall, but I'm gonna customize it a bit and make it a nice piece of furniture that's also a bad-ass home-audio subwoofer.

Why? Well, I'm thinking of selling the Clio!

When I bought that Clio, I studied in a busy city with small parking spots, so I needed a small (parking) economic (being a student) car to go to school, but now, the Clio is just over 8 years old, and Renaults aren't built to last 15-20+ years.

While there is not that much damage to the interior of it, and it still drives fine, I'll sell it and buy a bigger car I can rely on for another 5+ years and build an install in that.

You can start the **** jokes, because I'm looking out for a big old Volvo 940 

greetz,
Isabelle


----------



## veloze (Jul 2, 2007)

Candisa said:


> You can start the **** jokes, because I'm looking out for a big old Volvo 940


You are very modest Candisa, hehehe  The Vol will suit you much better than that little coffee maker Clio.


----------

