# PPI M Series or Art



## FergusAudi (Dec 19, 2009)

As someone new to PPI and coming from using all old school Power Series RF amps I am looking for a little feedback on the differences in PPI Art and M series (which one is arguably better; the Old M series (Not AM) or the Art Series.) Other than the Din input I am not aware of the design/sound differences. I really enjoy the M series that I am using now, effortless and very open. 

I have a handful of M series and 2 Art series that are in fantastic shape, with one more on the way. Thinking about swapping out.


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

Thats a tough question, the M to the Arts and skipping the AM, The are both silky smooth, if you want to run at low ohms them the Arts are the way to go... Keith


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

I've owned and used a ton of PPI M, Pro Mos and AM amplifiers. They have all been ultra clean but, not over-rated. They are very simple. No added filters (crossovers), processors or anything else that would "color" the output. I personally prefer the black versions as I think they have a subtle, understated and almost ominous look to them. 
However, they all have a weak point...the speaker harness connector. Possibly the absolute dumbest design ever. It is highly adviseable that you "reload" the connector with heavier gauge wire...but, not too big or the connector will not close back up. 

The connector issue was fixed with the Art series. 
Many people here swear by the Art amps and would rather loose a certain part of their anatomy than give them up. I've never owned a Art amp till last week when I picked up a barely used black A600 at a local stereo shop. 
I believe the ".2" versions of the Arts have an upgraded power supply but, I don't know how much of a difference that makes. Maybe Bret or someone else will chime on that subject?


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

The biggest thing I can think of is the ceramic upright boards that are darn near impossible to fix/replace. The .2 does have a beefed up PS but I can't tell the difference..., Aesthetically, everyone has an opinion, but I too prefer the older ProMos/AM/M stuff as well.


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## FergusAudi (Dec 19, 2009)

Thank you for the feedback guys, very much appreciated. Yeah, I know you can load down the Art series .2 and REALLY load the ProMos series, but right now I have a super easy load for these amps and don't foresee making life difficult for them like I did with my old Rockford gear. The toughest they see is 4ohm bridged.

I also really like the lack of "features" on these amps. It's what initially drew me to them, besides the rave revues What you feed it is basically what you get and that is nice, (maybe a little mid-range twinkle, but not much). Especially when you spend so much time on speaker selection and placement. That provides enough to deal with..

I think that I will audition the Arts while I have a couple of the Ms out being rebuild to new. Perhaps i can convince the wifey to allow me to have them installed in the kid mobile..Now if I can only settle on a set of caps for the rebuild. I've used Nichicon Muses's in other amps and liked the outcome, but I've read on here that most like the Panasonic FCs with PPI's configuration. Thoughts either way? I'm willing to spend the extra $$ if it's worth it sonically. Not trying to get into a giant discussion on cap selection because that can be endless, just if going with the FCs are a good way to go via past experiences..


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Doc ProMos said:


> Thats a tough question, the M to the Arts and skipping the AM, The are both silky smooth, if you want to run at low ohms them the Arts are the way to go... Keith


Sorry Keith but I need to correct you on the ohms statement.
The Art amps will not function properly below 2 ohms stereo or 4 ohms mono period. 
They will cut back output if the impedence drops below those figures to protect itself.
However, the Pro Art series of Art amps will go low like Keith is saying.

Just wanted to clear that up brotha. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Doc ProMos said:


> *The biggest thing I can think of is the ceramic upright boards that are darn near impossible to fix/replace. * The .2 does have a beefed up PS but I can't tell the difference..., Aesthetically, everyone has an opinion, but I too prefer the older ProMos/AM/M stuff as well.


I have one factory PPI sip board left if someone needs it.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

FergusAudi said:


> Thank you for the feedback guys, very much appreciated. Yeah, I know you can load down the Art series .2 and REALLY load the ProMos series, but right now I have a super easy load for these amps and don't foresee making life difficult for them like I did with my old Rockford gear. The toughest they see is 4ohm bridged.
> 
> I also really like the lack of "features" on these amps. It's what initially drew me to them, besides the rave revues What you feed it is basically what you get and that is nice, (maybe a little mid-range twinkle, but not much). Especially when you spend so much time on speaker selection and placement. That provides enough to deal with..
> 
> I think that I will audition the Arts while I have a couple of the Ms out being rebuild to new. Perhaps i can convince the wifey to allow me to have them installed in the kid mobile..Now if I can only settle on a set of caps for the rebuild. I've used Nichicon Muses's in other amps and liked the outcome, but I've read on here that most like the Panasonic FCs with PPI's configuration. Thoughts either way? I'm willing to spend the extra $$ if it's worth it sonically. Not trying to get into a giant discussion on cap selection because that can be endless, just if going with the FCs are a good way to go via past experiences..


Panasonics.
The cap of choice for "The Stig". 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Sorry Keith but I need to correct you on the ohms statement.
> The Art amps will not function properly below 2 ohms stereo or 4 ohms mono period.
> They will cut back output if the impedence drops below those figures to protect itself.
> However, the Pro Art series of Art amps will go low like Keith is saying.
> ...


I should qualify that post, I was referring to the M series bridging capabilities vs the Art series.... and the fact that the M series is the happiest at 4 ohms stereo... and the AM being the stepping stone to the Arts and behaving more like the Arts ...sorry bout the confusion..


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

And to not complicate the question, I left out the BGM-100....


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

On caps, there are probably 14 different caps by Panasonic alone, I think the better way to select caps is where the are used, temp ratings, etc... not necessarily the brand... All brands are not created equal and that also goes for all caps by the same brand are not created equal... cheers


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## jmacdadd (Mar 4, 2008)

Since one has addressed as of yet, the M/AM Series had unregulated power supplies whereas the Art Series had regulated power supplies...

A unregulated power supply allows the amp to produce more output with higher voltage. the M/AM Series wattage ratings were based on 12V...if you increase the voltage to say 13V, your output should increase (which is why these amps are considered under rated).

A regulated power supply produces full power at an voltage between 11-15V. However, if the voltage dips below 11V, it will not operate within regulation (or if the amp temperature reaches 75 degrees Celsius or 167 degrees Farenheit).

Per the Art Series manual (non .2) regarding AMII Protection Circuitry:...the adaptive circuit optimizes output power to maintain uninterrupted operation whenever the amplifier senses an impedance load of less than 2 Ohms. A low impedance indicator (Diagnostic L.E.D.) is provided to let you know when the amplifier is operating in this mode. It is important to note that there is no increase in output power below the 2 Ohm threshold. Maximum power is achieved at 2 Ohms. AMII provides you the satisfaction of knowing that your Art Series amplifier will continue to play when momentary impedance dips occur. (Refer to figure A)

What I find the most interesting is that figure A shows equal power output at 8 Ohms and .5 Ohms (25w) as well as 4 Ohms and 1 Ohms (50w) while 2 Ohms is higher (100w).

As a matter of record, thanks to some ignorant shop tech who doesn't know the difference between wiring DVC subs in parallel or serial, I unknowingly ran my A1200 mono at 1 Ohms to a trio of JL Audio 15W6 subs for months in my daily driver. I couldn't see the low imp LED due to the way the amp was mounted. One day, however, I started to hear this high pitched buzz. It sound like a loose dust cap vibration. It was actually the ground bar inside the amp...it had gotten so hot it came unsoldered on one end and vibrated down to the metal on the bottom plate through the powdercoat. I soldered it back up, checked the Ohms load on the subs, rewired them, and was back in the business...

That being said, although I would not recommend it, the Art Series can indeed run lower than 2 Ohm...


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## jmacdadd (Mar 4, 2008)

Doc ProMos said:


> And to not complicate the question, I left out the BGM-100....


Speaking of the BGM-100, what is the difference between a BGM-100 and an Orion 400BDG?


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

Indeed you can run most amps below 2 ohms because its dynamic... the frequency that is playing also must be taken into account... if you're playing white noise at 1 ohm across all frequencies it would definitely be stressed, in reality, if crossovers are used, only certain speakers are playing certain frequencies and its the "overall load" that matters... and to further complicate it, the power used to run higher frequencies is different than lower frequencies so an amp is more likely to tolerate lower ohms at higher frequencies than lower ones... therefore most amps tolerate lower ohm loads because each speaker is playing different frequencies at any one point and only shuts off when the overall load across a large frequency band is to low... so it's not surprising that an amp can handle a lower ohm load at a small frequency range... wow, I have no idea what I just typed... lol


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Doc ProMos said:


> Indeed you can run most amps below 2 ohms because its dynamic... the frequency that is playing also must be taken into account... if you're playing white noise at 1 ohm across all frequencies it would definitely be stressed, in reality, if crossovers are used, only certain speakers are playing certain frequencies and its the "overall load" that matters... and to further complicate it, the power used to run higher frequencies is different than lower frequencies so an amp is more likely to tolerate lower ohms at higher frequencies than lower ones... therefore most amps tolerate lower ohm loads because each speaker is playing different frequencies at any one point and only shuts off when the overall load across a large frequency band is to low... so it's not surprising that an amp can handle a lower ohm load at a small frequency range... wow, I have no idea what I just typed... lol


This is all true and if you know what you are doing, you can dance on the tip of that pin, but for the average car audio guy, PPI published the specific ohms limitations for a good reason and that's to keep "that guy" out of trouble.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

Well put Bret...:


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## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

This is what I love, the part I love most about car audio! What's up guys long time no talk, stuck on my vintage lighting boards, my cheaper hobby trying to save money for a bit lol! Anyways man about the A1200's ground bar un-soldering itself, I love real world mishaps and the details like that as we learn so much from it. From being a powerclass guy (my audio era) I can almost vouch to say they would not do that! 3 ohms mono hot hott sink!, 2 ohms mono in and out they'd cut out and re attempt to play and keep at it...below a certain volume they'd stay on just like you guys are talking of. Even with 4 gauge wire to a small PC250 I experimented with right next to a battery to give it as stiff of a supply of current as possible (used reducers to fit the 4 gauge down to 8, solid billet. The PC250 was 50wrmsx2 and [email protected] ohms bridged. Just as you said, knowledgeable folk can squeeze a bit more out of the amp in a given circumstance but many would get in trouble lol! So maybe amp x can make 60 more watts at 2 ohms mono for SPL competition if your feeding it a sine wave and momentarily, but without a subsonic filter and heavy techno daily ground pounding in Joe Smo's car it may repeatedly hit protection, so the installer better not do that in somebody's car etc, sorry for my banter lol!


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