# DIYMA Tweeter Reviews + More



## shinjohn

*Background Info*
This review’s genesis was the generosity of npdang and diymobileaudio.com to allow myself and 6 other (SF Bay Area) members of this forum to come together to audition a whole bunch of tweeters. First, and foremost, my thanks to npdang!!!!!

References to other's "DIYMA tweeter set" comparisons/reviews:
ArcL100's review 
SQ_Bronco's review 
tdgesq's review 

Some really good reviews by npdang on many other tweeters:
Rainbow, Seas, LPG, Max-fi, Usher, Scan Speak, Morel 
LPG, AVI, Sinfoni, Scan Speak

There are many, many, other excellent review threads, I'd recommend anyone shopping for tweeters to use the search function to find info on many drivers!

*Test Setup* 
Room: carpeted family room, approx. 12' wide x 15' deep in dimension (8' ceilings). 
Associated Gear: Yamaha MCX-1000 as source unit (PCM playback), Yamaha CX-800U preamp, Behringer CX3400 active crossover, Adcom GFA-535 amp to run high pass to tweeters, Onkyo TX-DS676 receiver running low pass to home built mini monitors.

Behringer CX3400:









Mini Monitors:









The monitor utilizes a Seas 22TAF/G and Dayton RS-125S crossed at about 3.2KHz. Only a single channel was utilized. Tweeters were simply placed on top of the monitors as shown in the above picture, with no additional baffling. Technically, since the passive of the monitor was not bypassed, the 22TAF/G was still playing. This didn't seem to introduce any major problems with this testing though.

*Source Material*
A mish-mash of test material I use, as well as several favorites of the group that came. This included:
- Classical: Vivaldi Four Seasons, Bach "Double" Violin Concerto, Verdi's Aida
- New Age / Acoustic: Wisdom of the Wood, Various guitar tracks
- Jazz: Ray Obiedo, Mr. Chow
- Male Vocals: Josh Groban
- Female Vocals: Sarah Brightman
- Pop: Jack Johnson
- Dance: New Order
- Rock: James Blunt

*The Tweeters*
top row: Seas 27TBFC/G, Vifa XT25SC50-04, LPG 25NFA, LPG 26NA
middle: Vifa D26NC-55-06
bottom row: Hiquphon OWII, DIYMA Ref 1" Silk Proto, Seas 27TAFNC/D, Dayton ND20TA-6 

















Rainbow CAL27:









Seas Lotus RT25A:









Scan Speak D2904/6000:









Hybrid Legatia 1, Hiquphon OW1-fs: (also shown is Legatia 3 and TG9):









_added, 1/27/06_
Fountek JP3 Ribbon Tweeter, Alpine XT19 Derivative (SPX series tweeter):

























_added, 2/23/07_
Pioneer Premier PRS Tweeter & Dynaudio MD100:

















_added, 3/10/07_
Hertz Mille ML 280 (Large Chamber Version):

























_added, 4/25/07_
Max Fidelity MFDT30NEO Silk & Peerless HDS 810921:

























Click here to see all pics at high res in my pbase gallery.

*Test Method*
I listened to these tweeters over the course of several days. I tried to do maybe 2 tweeters an evening, or I listened until my ears felt fatigued. I probably spent a total of 4+ hours listening time on my own. I kept a notebook and jotted down things as I made observations.

For each tweeter, I used Vivaldi's Four Seasons - Spring (Trevor Pinnock, the English Concert) as a reference piece to set initial crossover point and level. I then moved through my test music suite selection by selection. For each round of listening, I would adjust crossover frequency and tweeter level as necessary (low pass level stayed constant throughout). Typically, I started at 2KHz HP and moved up in frequency until things sounded pretty clean to me. I also changed my listening position frequently, so I could evaluate off axis response, as well as how these sounded near field (like in a car). BTW, before each session, I tried to listen to my speakers (monitors) full range to "calibrate" my ears to a somewhat flat response.

During our mini-meet/Sat. afternoon group tweeter listening session, we had a brutally long session. My ears were definitely shot by the end. We went for 3.5 hours straight with only a single break about 2 hours into it.... It was very tiring... but fun! We started with a little listening to the monitors to "calibrate" ears, and then went through tweeters one after another, similar to how I did. People were free to adjust crossover slope, level and overall volume as they pleased.

_added, 12/12/06:_ 
One last thing... I don't typically listen to my music at very high volume levels, so testing was done at moderate volumes. I did not try to push each tweeter to it's physical limit, because to be honest, it's really not important to me. Any of these tweeters plays plenty loud for my taste! (this also kept me from inducing any amount of marital strain. D) So I won't comment on a tweeter's ability to go really loud. I just don't know and don't care.

_(updated, 4/25/07)_
*Review Summary Notes*
- There was one standout performer during the initial listening session that everyone seemed to agree upon: Hiquphon (OWI-fs & OWII). Everyone liked the detail, air, tonality, and incredible dispersion of the two. Amazing off axis response. I'd say the OWII is the best tweeter I've had the opportunity to own. OWI-fs being a little less sharp/airy at the top end,but capable of reaching a little lower down in frequency.
- The Fountek JP3 tweeter is quite a gem if you like hyper-detail. Very fast and light sounding, and super clean presentation. If you are a purist though, it seems to render a little bit of "false detail".
- The Peerless HDS 81092 is a standout performer in that they are excellent on the bottom end without sacrificing much on the top. Low coloration and super clean sound.
- The Hertz Mille ML 280 is a very neutral and clean sounding tweeter with good top end dispersion. If you are looking for very low coloration, and an even and clean presentation, this one is probably the best sounding compact for the purpose. Those wanting the ultimate in ambiance and detail might find this one a little too polite.
- In the budget category, the Seas 27TBFC/G was a hit ($33). It not only measures well, but sounds darn good. Too bad it's a large format! A brighter sounding top end.
- Scan 6000 really reaches low (I know, everyone knows this) and has a very robust sound. We crossed at 1,800Hz and it still sounded great. Rolled off top end though.
- Rainbow really is as smooth as they say (at least IMO!).
- I really liked the Seas Lotus RT25A, wish I could hear the RT27!
- The Alpine SPX ring radiator (XT19 derivative) is the best value for DIY compact domes that I'm currently aware of. Very good top end, and super smooth, but don't try to crank this one up too much!
- Dynaudio MD100, though old, is still a great choice if your preference is more towards classical and acoustic music.
- Pioneer Premier PRS is an outstanding value in a component set, with enviable build quality, and darn good "soft dome" sound. Detailed and versatile.
- I felt the Seas Neo 27TAFNC/D compact was quite versatile, and priced right. Not incredible at any one particular thing, but one of my top picks for _budget_ compact dome.
- Max Fidelity MFDT30NEO silk is a powerful sounding, full bodied tweeter with good top end dispersion and a warm bend.
- Vifa XT25 was quite nice IMO, but only if you can keep the sucker right on axis. Otherwise, not so great.
- Both LPGs have good top end, but IMO have no lower treble capabilty (resolution). Personally, I wouldn't use the 26, unless in a 3-way front. The 25 was much more balanced relatively speaking, but still weak in the lower treble.
- Vifa D26 seemed to me to be very well balanced tonally, but quite boring to listen to IMO. Also versatile like the Seas Neo, but so much larger in size, I couldn't ever see using this one over that in a car.
- In the end, choosing the right tweeter for you has alot to do with personal/listening preferences.

*Overall Subjective Ratings, Sound Quality*
1. Hiquphon OWI-fs & OWII
2. Peerless HDS 810921
3. Fountek JP3
4. Hertz Mille ML 280 (it's toss up though depending on tastes w/ #5 tweeters)
5. Seas Lotus RT25A, Scan Speak D2904/6000, Rainbow Cal27
6. Seas 27TBFC/G (very close to #5)
7. Alpine SPX Ring Radiator (XT19 derivative)
8. Dynaudio MD100
9. Pioneer Premier PRS Tweeter
10. Seas “Neo” 27TAFNC/D
11. Max Fidelity MFDT30NEO Silk
11. DIYMA Reference 1”
12. Vifa D26NC-55-06
13. Vifa XT25SC50-04 
14. LPG 25NFA and 26NA
15. Dayton ND20TA-6

*SJ's DIY "Value/Bargain" Ratings*
1. Alpine SPX Ring Radiator (XT19 derivative)
2. Seas 27TBFC/G
3. Dayton ND20TA-6
4. Peerless HDS 810921
5. Seas “Neo” 27TAFNC/D, Vifa D26NC-55-06
6. Pioneer Premier PRS Tweeter
7. Fountek JP3
8. Max Fidelity MFDT30NEO Silk
9. Hiquphon OWI-fs & OWII
10. LPG 25NFA and 26NA, Vifa XT25SC50-04
11. Dynaudio MD100
12. Seas Lotus RT25A, Scan Speak D2904/6000, Rainbow Cal27
13. Hertz Mille ML 280 (based on what I know of their retail MSRP)
(DIYMA not included as it is not for sale)


----------



## shinjohn

OK, continued...

*Detailed Reviews*
Hiquphon OWI-fs & OWII
I am lumping the two of these tweeters together because I feel they both stand out significantly from the rest of this particular test group. Also, I'd say their sound is pretty similar, and the differences between them aren't as large as the differences between other tweeters in this grouping.

The best way to describe their sound is to make a comparison. I at one time had a set of Dynaudio 1.3 MKIIs in my possession, and my first reaction was: Wow, these sound similar to, and just as good as those old Dyn tweeters! Well, in fact, a short amount of time convinced me that they sounded quite a bit better! A little bit of web research reveals there is another person who made a similar comparison to the tweeter in this speaker (the D-260), so I'll reference this review from Dave Ellis' website for more detail.

I ended up dialing in the OWII tweeter to just a hair above ~3KHz HP (the knob on my crossover only has a coarse gradation). After this initial setting, I never felt the urge to turn the knob to tweak. These tweets just really sounded great. There were two things that struck me the most about them: 
1) The tweeters were so nice to listen to, I didn't seem to mind it too much if the tweeter level was just a tad too high. Likewise, if the level was slightly low, I still felt they articulated incredibly well. They were exceptionally detailed but not overbearing or sibilant. This IMO is hard to get right.
2) The off axis response was amazing. The talk is true that these tweeters really spread sound in a room. To be honest, I don't think this is always a good thing for a car audio setup, but it sure makes listening inside my house _an experience_.  My suspicion is that this characteristic would make them ideal for use in kicks, even if they were aligned a little off axis....

Subsequent to my in-home listening, I tried the OWII tweeters out in my latest project car, the 2005 STI. The owner of the vehicle insisted he wanted them up high and since we had the tweeter wiring there anyway (we moved the old LPGs up to the A-pillar, per his wishes) I hooked them up and we tried them out _sitting on the dash_. To my surprise, they sounded quite amazing in this location, though a bit brighter than I remember in my home, obviously due to reflections of the environment. Up until this moment, I was unable to get satisfactory treble performance in this vehicle (well, results that I was pleased with). T/A, EQing, crossover adjustments and tweaking didn't seem to cut it with the LPG 25s mounted high. A couple of minor adjustments and the results were quite amazing with the OWIIs. The owner was very happy, and I'll say that I was quite impressed with the sound too. We aimed them dead on axis to the driver, and there weren't huge problems with that setup. The crossover point ended up at (IIRC) 3.2 or 3.6KHz HP to the tweeter and underlapped at about 2.8KHz on the Seas CA18 mid-bass in the door. Though still not my taste to have one tweeter up in my face and the other much farther away, I'd say the setup works. So well that these _large format_ tweeters remain masking taped to the dash and A-pillars in this arrangement for now (sorry, no pictures of this atrocity). I am left to now think about how to glass these large format tweeters somewhere up high..... This is an interesting challenge, indeed.  

On to the OWI-fs... After the above in-car OWII experience, my inclination is to say that the OWI would probably work better in a mobile environment, due to their (relatively, and slightly) smoother sound. Even though I didn't try the the OWII in the kick, I felt they were slightly aggressive sounding in the car, relative to in the home. Funny thing is that this is exactly what the owner wants and likes! Now I'd like to experiment more with the OWII in the kick location, and if I do, I'll update this thread.

Back to the differences, I think the OWI's real advantage is the slightly greater damping of the dome, which allows it to play lower and smoother across its bandwidth. Relative to the OWII, the OWI is a little less "edgy" (for lack of a better term). The attack of cymbals and percussion wasn't as sharp/hard on the OWI as the OWII. However, I think they both discern a very high amount of detail, and neither got overbearing, IMO. If you need a slightly lower playing tweeter, go OWI. If you are going 3-way, or have a high playing paper or poly mid-bass in a 2-way, the OWII could work, assuming you also want a slightly brighter sound.

Seas 27TBFC/G
Another large format tweeter, and as mentioned, a very high performer. I think this is probably one of the best bargains in DIY audio. (but take that with a grain of salt; I haven’t heard all that’s out there!) I bought these for a HT tower project I’m about to start and I’m glad I did!

Comparing these first to the Hiquphons, they definitely didn’t discern as much detail nor did they have the subtlety that the Hiqs exhibited. However, to put things in perspective, they are also 1/3 the cost. Are the Hiqs 3x better? Probably not in my book, but I guess it depends on what you really want in a tweeter and what you value in your sound.

I would characterize the sound of the 27TBFC/G as similar to other Seas tweeters I’ve heard. Tonally well balanced, and overall “clean” in nature. When listening to them, I didn’t hear much (if any) extraneous stuff; most tweeters have some minor (or major) annoyance in their tonal balance or character, and I didn’t find this with the Seas large format. This also means that they aren’t a very “in your face” tweeter nor are they really laid back. They have a simple and straight forward presentation; no tricks & very neutral.

Though the response curve of the Seas would indicate a rolled off top end, I think most people would not perceive this. In fact, I think most would say the opposite: these have lots of top end sparkle and air! On metal instruments, I felt these were in fact a little more fun to listen to than the Hiqs, though they didn’t do nearly as well on voices, acoustic instruments (guitar, violin) and the like. They just seemed to lack a little on articulation during complex musical passages. But like I said about the metal instruments: little details such as a triangle in the background, cymbals, and other instruments were just about right (IMO). Honestly, I find it really hard to fault these tweeters because in the price range, they are heads and shoulders above other things I’ve heard. Oh yeah, and the off axis response of these was also quite decent.

These tweeters can be crossed reasonably low, but with my crossover, they seemed to perform best close to ~3KHz (or just barely a tad lower). I think they played and handled lows down to 2KHz OK, but would get a bit sibilant & distorted with female vocals when crossed that low.

Now you may be thinking, could Seas get this sound into a small format tweeter? My answer is yes; and I’ll go into this more with the next review….

Seas Lotus RT25A
Now since this tweeter was brought over during our Saturday meet (as was the Scan, Rainbow, and OWI-fs), I didn’t have the chance to really listen to this as critically as many drivers, but I’ll give my impressions on what I observed….

Out of all the “compact” domes that I’ve listened too, this one is definitely the most detailed and exacting I’ve heard. I almost want to say it’s my favorite compact dome (overall) of this entire review group, but it’s a close call between this and the Scan and Rainbow in my mind. I think they all sit at about the same subjective quality level.

Compared to the Seas large format, this one has a slightly more intimate, or “close” character, and it does resolve a higher level of detail. Many details I missed in the larger 27TBFC/G were for the most part filled in by the Lotus. It tone was brighter even than it’s larger sibling, yet still maintained what I would call the “clean Seas sound”. Bright and sharp, but not harsh IMO.

There are only two things I found to be (slight) downsides of this tweeter: 1) they aren’t really that small; the case and rear chamber make this one of the deepest and biggest “compact” tweeters. 2) their off axis response IMO was pretty poor. If the off axis performance were better, I’d probably had said that this was hands down the best compact dome of the bunch.

Scan Speak D2904/6000
What can I say that hasn’t already been said? This tweeter is great. For strings and other acoustic music, as well as vocals, I think this was probably my favorite of the group. Its ability to reach low gave me the best sense of integration into the midrange, and that is where this speaker shines. (didn’t even break a sweat with 1,800Hz crossover) I currently run the Dynaudio MD100 tweeter in my car, and the Scan reminds me of it in character (detailed, natural, musical, and rolled off top), but is far, far, better IMO. I would say that if you don’t want or need the very best top end sparkle (high hats, cymbals, and other “ear candy”) I can’t think of a better tweeter I’ve heard. If you are most impressed with airy, high frequency detail and delicacy, this isn’t the one for you; you’ll be disappointed. Also, this sucker is big, like the Lotus!

Rainbow Cal27
Rainbow is pretty well known in car audio circles, but to be honest, I’ve never heard any of their speakers. This was a nice first treat for me!

Given that I am comparing things, I would say this tweeter is a nice balance between the Lotus and Scan. A good amount of detail, good top end sparkle, smooth overall response, and good off axis response. It wasn’t as exacting as the Lotus, or as full bodied as the Scan on the low end, but very good in its own right. Probably one of the easiest tweeters to listen to. (Can you say no fatigue?) It’s also smaller in depth than the other two, and as a result, may be easier to mount. However, I too found the mounting flange to be very ugly! I’d probably take the sucker apart and repaint it if I ever installed one! 

 Seas “Neo” 27TAFNC/D
There are numerous reviews of this tweeter on the website, so I won’t go too much in depth, but like I said, this is one of my top picks for "budget" compact dome. Overall a stronger performer than any of the others in the original tweeter audition set (Vifas, Dayton, LPGs) due to its relatively good tonal balance, ability to crossover low, and relative precision. 

Compared to the Seas large format, this one has less top end and is less exacting. It also can sound a little bit on the sibilant side relatively speaking, but it’s not a screamer, and to me isn’t very fatiguing. I don’t think you can expect much more out of a compact tweeter at this price point, and it surely beats the mass market competition (tweeters used in budget 2-way car audio component sets). I think it is a very versatile tweeter in that it sounds equally good with any kind of music, and still has a very clean sound, reminiscent of its larger siblings.

I think you could get away with crossing over at 2KHz, provided you don’t want to blast yourself. The tweeter didn’t seem to strain too much or get overly hard/distorted when set up this way in my LR. Much better off axis than the Lotus, but not even close with respect to detail. But hey, it’s less than $30!!!!!

Vifa XT25SC50-04
Here’s what I’ll say off the bat: if you can keep this tweeter directly on axis to your listening position, this is a real gem! It has an extremely detailed mid to lower treble which I found to be extremely good on classical music. I found harpsichords to come across with some of the best sense of detail and articulation out of the group and female vocals were outstanding. On axis, this is not a laid back tweeter; very much “in your face” but mostly in a good way.

For all its good qualities, its bad qualities are just as numerous. Off axis response is absolutely horrific; it just doesn’t exist IMO. Also, this tweeter gets VERY harsh and distorted sounding if the crossover frequency is too low. (I wouldn’t drop below 3KHz personally) Finally, I found this tweeter to be fatiguing to listen to after a certain period of time. To me, this is the flip side of the more “in your face” sound characteristic. I’d bet though that this aggressiveness in sound could be tamed with a little selected cutting with an EQ or processor. Boy, if Vifa could smooth it a little more and get it performing off axis; this would be an INCREDIBLE value.

 Vifa D26NC-55-06
I kinda feel like this tweeter was the easiest to work with among the bunch. It’s by far the smoothest and most laid back sounding of them all. I thought the tonal balance was really good, and there was never any hint of sibilance with this tweeter. I’d say its probably best suited for those with softer music tastes, because of its timid character.

Overall, I felt it had enough detail to be convincing and natural sounding, but metal instruments and other high frequency detail seemed to get somewhat lost in the background. This could be good or bad depending on your tastes and perspective. Like the Seas Neo, a very versatile tweeter. I think most car audio folks would find this speaker less appealing than the Seas due to its larger relative size, and comparative lack of detail compared to the Neo. Strong performer though. Even though its fs isn’t that low, it seemed to work OK above 2.5KHz.

LPG 25NFA and 26NA
After more time with both of these tweeters, and being able to compare them directly head to head with so much of their competition, I’m actually less impressed with them than before. Prior, I gave them a very positive review, which I think it still mostly true, but here's the whole story now that I have a better basis for comparison…

The two LPGs IMO still represent a great value for those seeking a budget alternative in DIY car audio. In comparison to the big box brand stuff, I think these are still really nice sounding speakers, both of which are probably best suited toward those who are seeking a tweeter with an airy, detailed, crisp (add other adjective here) top end.

Between the two of them, I personally prefer the 25NFA. The simple reason is that to me it sounds fuller and more natural than the 26NA. It has better overall presence across the treble range, and I’d say is more tonally correct. Its top end is airy and shimmery, but IMO not over exaggerated or harsh. On the other hand, I think the 26NA goes beyond natural and is just a tad too much for me. Its shimmer is exciting at first to hear, but I couldn’t live with it day in and day out. Now don’t get me wrong though, this is not a harsh tweeter like say, many of the MB Quart tweeters, or some of the Focal line.

Based on my experience, I know there are many who would (and do) prefer the sound of the 26 over the 25. Take for instance the owner of the ’05 STI I’m working on. I think the 26 better suits his tastes because he listens to a lot of music with percussion (both live and synthesized). He had one listen to the 26NAs and said, “Wow!” To describe this feeling, I’d say that metal instruments come across with an impact that is almost frightening. To me it feels like your ear is right near the percussion, which is really, really exciting. About as crispy and bright as you can get without getting really harsh.

Those people who were groomed on “traditional” big box car audio and are transitioning over to DIY might favor the LPGs (and esp. the 26NA) to much of the other budget DIY competition due to their relative sparkle. I say this because I know how bright most big box car audio is. But then again, if you are running away from the bright light, the 26NA is probably not your gig. 

IMHO, both LPGs (and esp. the 26NA) might be good candidates for a 3-way front stage because of their top end. However, I think both faired poorly in their performance with lower and even mid treble. The 25NFA especially sounds strained, spitty, harsh, and distorted if asked to play too low. But it does play the lower registers better than the 26NA. On the 26NA, the lower treble was so hard to hear relative to the top end that I kept turning up the gain of the tweeter on some on my music to make sure the tweeter was playing. That was a strange experience.

On the other hand, if you are looking for an A-pillar tweeter, I can tell you based on experience that I think the 26NA might actually be better, even in a 2-way (which I really don’t recommend). For some reason, the 25NFA, even if crossed at a relatively high f, sounds poor with all the reflections of the windshield/dash, etc.. No amount of EQ I used was able to reign this in. When placed lower, in stock speaker locations with a high-playing mid, or in the kick panels, I thought the 25NFA was quite good. Go figure; this car audio stuff is not easy! 

Dayton ND20TA-6
Here was another big surprise to me. This _TINY, TINY_ tweeter really impressed the heck out of me. If you really need the smallest form factor and reasonably broad range out of a tweeter, I think you have to buy a set of these things to at least play with! At a cool $4.60, there’s no reason not to.

I really thought this tweeter was going to sound terrible. I was all prepared for poor performance, but when I fired it up, I was amazed. I couldn’t believe that it played with such fullness and authority. It wasn’t bad, it was really good!

I think the ND20 can hang with some of these other $30 tweeters for the simple fact that they sound very big and full. I had them crossed as low as 2.5KHz, and they did not sound like they were falling apart. (recommend probably 3KHz+ though) They can effectively present source material in a musical way, and they have a nice presence to them. Not nearly as neutral, detailed, or clean as some of the others, but very acceptable IMO. They sound a little ragged/rough on the low end, and they don’t sparkle like the LPGs, but I could see these being used as a low cost A-pillar tweeter.

DIYMA Reference 1”
Finally, and last on my list, is the prototype 1” DIYMA silk dome tweeter. Good overall efficiency, and great potential (IMO) to be a Scan Speak competitor if executed well, this tweeter in prototype form was a little bit of a let down.

First, the good: I thought this tweeter had a very detailed and intimate character, and a warm-biased lower treble. Out of the bunch, it was only bettered by the Scan for its ability to play low. 2KHz crossover seemed just fine and dandy for this guy. So… an airy tweeter that can reach down low, so what’s the problem, right?

Well, the more I listened, the more it seemed to me that this tweeter’s purpose was to play really low, if even to a fault. In contrast to the LPGs, I found this tweeter’s balance to be a little too much biased toward the lower treble. It almost sounded like this tweeter was attempting to be a midrange driver. This gave the tweeter a somewhat unnatural timbre, and most people’s ears get really sensitive in these frequency ranges, so I think it’s really a hard game to play in.

Listening to acoustic music (strings, etc..) I would say that the sound got a little bit gritty and hard. It’s as if the speaker were being overdriven when it wasn’t. To me it sounded like a distortion problem, but who knows, I could be wrong. I didn’t try to EQ it at all so I don’t know.

In summary, all I can say is that if another version of this tweeter were to be developed, I’d be HUGELY interested in listening to it. With a little smoother tonal balance, and this grittyness problem eliminated, I think it would work outstanding in a two way auto sound front stage.

_added 1/27/07_
Fountek JP3 Ribbon
Ah.... a ribbon tweeter.... Well, I won't bore you with alot of background, just suffice it to say that alot of people like them (including our illustrious host!), they have their own unique characteristics/challenges in car audio, and as a group they have not measured very well.

Having said that, here goes.

I like these ribbons alot. How much? Well, certainly enough to recommend them to those who are looking for this type of sound. They definitely do live up to their reputation as being very "airy" and super detailed. To sum it up, I think these tweeters are for the person who wants and likes to hear hyper-detail. If you really need your tweeters to bring forward (and out) the tiniest of subtlety in your music (for instance, little details like triangle strikes, etc..) then these seem to be the right ticket.

Before I hooked these tweeters up, looking at the ribbon element made me cringe a little. Thoughts of aluminum foil being crumpled next to my ear entered my mind, and for that reason I thought these tweeters were going to sound somehow resonant, heavy, or sharp. Nothing could be further from the truth. These ribbon tweeters have a very light and fast character to them; never sibilant or resonant. The result is that everything sounds just a little bit more effortless on the top end.

When I first fired them up to listen, I was hugely impressed with them; IMO they were spacious, detailed, and to me, very natural sounding. However, as I started to get through some of my acoustic music selections I started hearing all kinds of things in the music I hadn't heard before. Some singer's lip smacking sounded almost like kisses in my ear. Triangle strikes seemed to come out of nowhere while the initial attack of harpsichords became quite dominant in some music selections. This kinda reminded me of Jon's (jay) guitar music that he often uses to demo systems with.   There are these guitar tracks he has where a pair of guitars are very, very, very, closely mic'd and the resultant recording is super, super, resolved, but very much _unlike_ what guitars (IMO) sound like in real life. The initial pluck and attack was just too strong in this music. With these ribbons, I got that type of impression when listening to classical and other acoustic music selections which were not recorded in this fashion. I guess I would describe this as being the "false detail" that many other ribbon reviewers on the net have talked about.

Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing. My guess is that many people (if not a majority of people) would really enjoy this kind of sound. I did at first, even though it seemed to me that there was something there that shouldn't be. The interesting thing though is that I've now had these ribbons in my home setup for a couple of weeks, and could honestly say I could live with them in a set of home speakers long term. The simple reason is that when listening casually (not critically, sitting in the sweet spot) they sound darn good! Typing on my computer and listening to them reflected about the room I think they are great!

So I'll leave you with this: they aren't small, and don't have the best off axis response (particularly vertical) but they are super detailed, light, and overall sound great. Worlds apart in terms of airiness, tonality, and articulation from any of the compact dome competition. In my ratings, I would put them right up there with the Hiquphons in terms of sound quality. Better in some ways, worse in others. However, force me to pick between the JP3 and OWI or OWII, I'd have to go with the Hiquphons for my tastes. But that's me, and everyone's got slightly different tastes. In conclusion, if you can fit these bad (big) boys in your kicks, enjoy an extreme amount of detail in music, and can afford to cross your mids a little on the higher side, go and buy some ribbons. You won't be disappointed. The cheaper ones like the JP3 can be had at a very reasonable price!

Alpine SPX (XT19 derivative) Ring Radiator
This tweeter set was an impulse buy based on their low price and availability at PAC Parts.  I made it in on the deal early (before PAC Parts was flooded with orders and went out of stock) and to be honest, am really glad I did! I'll say this right now: this is the best bargain in the DIY world I've made to date! At $28 for the pair + shipping, it can't be beat!

After a good amount of listening in my home, I found that I prefer these tweeters over the other bargain DIY competition by a good margin. They are not only very smooth in character, but they have what I would call a "soft" tone. This is not to say they are not detailed, but their sensitivity is a bit low, and as a result, I was fooled a little at first into thinking that they didn't have very great performance. Once I got them dialed in, I was very, very impressed with them. This is a nice tweeter.

I would have to say that their biggest advantage is their small size. This gives the installer enormous flexibility (IMO) to place these tweeters. They also have a great top end. The response sounds very extended and they sounded surprisingly good, even when compared to the JP3 ribbons I also recently acquired. I'd say that on axis, these tweeters to me had the best top end dispersion out of any of the compact domes I've auditioned to date.

While it is true that these tweeters don't have the best off-axis response, I found them to be significantly better in that regard than the XT25 Neo I also heard, and they have a better top end to boot. The other thing I found, (related to their "soft" tone) was that I didn't mind at all listening to this tweeter very close to my ear. Practically any of the other compact domes were too much for me to handle that close to my ear (and I'm talking within a foot of distance).

On the down side, (and again due to their diminutive size) they don't play very low at all, and they quite audibly distort if crossed too low. I crossed them a bit over 3 KHz (probably 3.2-3.5 KHz) to get them to perform well. I didn't push these tweeters very hard at all, so I can't personally comment on their ability to play loud, except to say that npdang says they don't and I can't imagine a tiny tweeter like this blasting you away.

My take is that if you can cross your mids 3KHz or above, and you're on a budget, it's going to be hard to beat the performance of this tweeter. Smooth, extended top end, great overall sound with good tonality (I didn't notice any problems with the response). My current pick for the DIY value category.

_added 2/23/07_
Dynaudio MD100
An oldie, but IMO still quite a goodie. I currently use these tweeters in both of my own personal vehicles, and I still like them alot. So far, I haven't reviewed them because I wasn't motivated enough to un-install one to listen to in my (home) "tweeter audition" setup. I've finally done that, and can now make a fair comparison with the rest, so here goes.

I'd sum up this tweeter by saying that it's a great tweeter for someone who listens primarily to classical and acoustic music; particularly stringed instruments. In fact, for classical and acoustic, it might still be my favorite compact dome. To me, this tweeter has a very natural sound as it is somewhat robust in character, with just enough sparkle and detail to make acoustic music sound realistic. Now I've heard alot of people say that the MD100 is very smooth, and I'd agree somewhat generally, but compared to the Alpine SPX, I wouldn't really say that. The lower treble comes across alot stronger on this tweeter than many of the others (including the Alpine), which is great for acoustic, but can be a little tiring on other types of music (like rock). Violins and guitars IMO come across as very lively and natural, which has kept my ears very happy over the last 7 or so years!

On the other hand, the MD100 has quite a rolled off top end, and this is the one area I feel this tweeter is most lacking. When listening to any music with metal instruments (cymbals, triangles, high hats, etc..) I found this tweeter to be a little less revealing. It simply isn't as exacting on the top end as the LPGs, Alpine, or the Seas Ref. and Seas large format. Don't get me wrong though, I'd describe the MD100 as being very detailed and clear across most of its range, but just not at the highest octaves.

In as far as crossover point, this guy seemed to do great just a tiny bit under 3KHz. To me, I think you could drop it to ~2.5KHz and not have much noticeable distortion. Do note however, that this tweeter (based on personal experience in the car) isn't the most well behaved at high volume levels. Keep this one at moderate volumes and it will sing.

One last comment: I've have these installed for 7 years and although they've held up really well, I'm pretty disappointed in the build quality of this tweeter. Having seen so much of its competition recently, I cringe when I look at the exposed leads on the back, and the loose way the grill is mated to the tweeter housing. (take a look at my pbase gallery for pictures of the rear of the tweeter) But hey, it still sounds pretty darn good, so what can I say.

Pioneer Premier PRS Tweeter
*Special thanks to ATB for sending me a pair of these to audition so I could add it to my review!!!!*

When I first laid eyes on this tweeter and held one in my hands, it immediately reminded me of the Dynaudio MD100 due to its size/form factor. It's not a very small tweeter, being somewhat larger in OD (the specs say, 1 1/8" OD) than some others, but it isn't nearly as deep as the Seas Ref, Rainbow, or Scan. I think it's a good compromise in size because the depth is often the hardest dimension to accommodate in installs. Pioneer did a good job on this one: making the leads integral, giving it a highly polished and finished aluminum shell, and molding in a low-profile (DLS-like) guard. It's build quality is truly remarkable, and seeing it side by side with the Dynaudio really shows how old and dated the Dyn is from a design and technology standpoint.

So, on to the sound...... Let's just say that I wanted to write the Dynaudio review above prior to this one because in some ways the sound of the PRS tweeter reminds me of the MD100. I guess I would summarize my thoughts by saying that it's a "poor man's" Dynaudio, with better top end detail and extension, but a bit less clean in overall sound. It's a good tweeter, and it holds its own quite well with the DIY competition.

Very similar to the Dyn, the PRS tweeter has what I would call an articulate, yet soft & forgiving sound. It's very much what you would expect from a nice soft dome: detailed and rich in sound without being cold or brittle. I enjoyed listening to this tweeter quite alot with acoustic music selections, and found it to excel across a variety of music (pop, jazz, rock). It wasn't as much of a "1 trick pony" as the Dyn. True to this point, I found the PRS tweeter to have better overall tonal balance than the Dyn. It was smoother and less heavy across the lower treble, and it didn't roll off on the top end like the Dyn. Due to it's better top end, I found it also revealed a higher level of micro detail, esp. on those metal instruments that I found a little disappointing with the MD100s.

So now the bad part: I felt the PRS tweeter was a little bit (for lack of a better term) "dirty" in its overall presentation. During intricate acoustic passages with harpsichords and the like, there seemed to be a little bit of "extra" content there. A bit hard to explain, but the best way I can describe the sound is that it got just a tad bit "gritty" with certain types of music. I also noticed this quality during some well recorded female vocals. If I had to guess (in the lack of any measurement data) I'd think there might be a slight distortion problem with this tweeter. The reason is that as I turned the crossover frequency higher, this characteristic was much less noticeable. If you don't mind the slight grittiness in sound, then crossing these fairly low isn't much of a problem. I liked them crossed at about 3.4 KHz the best, but was able to turn them down pretty close to 2 KHz without creating an issue.

Take all this with a grain of salt, because I'm being fairly picky, and as of late, I've been listening to ribbons and some other nice tweeters at home, which have a very "clean and tidy" characteristic sound. The PRS tweeter is quite a good tweeter, if you are looking for this type of sound. The build quality is amazing, and when purchased as a set (with mids and passives) for about $250 it is quite a steal, DIY or not. Other car audio component speaker manufacturers take note: Pioneer has really raised the bar on price/performance ratio. Now I'm actually thinking about the entire set even more, because if the mids are as good as others say, I want some!

_added 3/10/07_
Hertz Mille ML 280 ("Big Chamber" Version)
*Special thanks to BodegaBay for entrusting a pair of these with me for a week so that I could have an opportunity to listen to them and compare them to others!!!*

Since entering the world of DIY audio (both mobile and home), I've found that I've become less and less atuned to the vast landscape of car audio products available today. Case in point, it wasn't until after I was asked to review this set of tweeters that I actually realized that Hertz was part of elettromedia, the company that owns Audison. That realization actually made me feel a little embarrassed, but then again, who the heck cares who makes something? The question to me was and is always the same: how does the speaker sound and perform?

Well, before I get into the sound, a comment on its external appearance/construction: this tweeter IMO is quite beautiful, and is physically very well suited for car use. With its relatively small size, simplistic external appearance, beautifully machined aluminum casing, and minimalistic, yet functional grill, I have no complaints about this one. And to those wondering, I did NOT crack this one open to look inside, even though I knew the rear chamber was easily removable. (I didn't out of respect for the fact that these were not mine, and on loan) The only pictures I have are of the exterior, as shown in my pbase gallery. Note the pictures also show this tweeter next to the diminutive Alpine SPX, to give you an idea of the scale.

OK, so on to the sound...... I found this tweeter to be the most neutral sounding compact dome I've heard to date. Very low in coloration, it didn't make high hats and cymbals sound as flat as the other soft domes in this group did. It's top end dispersion is really good, and it's ability to articulate detail is excellent. To me this tweeter has a nice balance of detail & air, neutrality and lack of coloration, and fullness of sound. I guess I could say that this tweeter is the closest I've found to "ribbon-like" sound in a compact tweeter. Now, please don't take this to mean I think these sound as good as ribbons; they simply don't. However, they have a very neutral and clear sound that reminded me of my Founteks.

Comparing to some of the others, I found its dispersion to be significantly better than the Alpine, while still maintaining much of the fullness in the lower treble that I like with the Dynaudio. I liked this tweeter significantly better than most of the DIY competition, but am a little torn when trying to compare to the likes of the Seas Ref, Rainbow, and Scan, due to the fact I haven't heard those in awhile. But based on my recollection, I'd say the Hertz is: more resolved in terms of detail than the Rainbow, but less lively/exciting to listen to; more neutral and natural sounding than the Seas, but slightly less resolved; not as good in the lower registers as the Scan, but WAY more spacious on the top end.

In essence this tweeter is a good compromise of attributes IMO. Now, if you're shopping for tweeters or a component set, the most important thing is to determine what kind of sound you are after, and what you hold important to you. Case in point, my good buddy Steve got a chance to listen to the Hertz after having had the Hiquphon OWIIs installed in his car for awhile. He found the Hertz Mille to be too "polite" sounding. After listening to the Hiqs again head to head with the Hertz in my home, I can better qualify what he is saying. The Hiqs simply have an incredibly lively sound that allow them to have the best presence (esp. on vocals) of any tweeter I've heard. The Hertz on the other hand, being very neutral (and also laid back) come across IMO as accurate, but perhaps a little on the analytical/sterile side of things. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it won't be everyone's preference.

I think these sounded really good will all my music selections, and I didn't have much to complain about on these except that on a couple of my tracks (female vocals, jazz) I noticed a hint of hotness in the frequency response somewhere in the higher registers (~16 KHz?). It's not super obvious with most music, and I bet could easily be EQ'd out if one found that annoying. However, if you are one to look for clean and neutral sound in a compact dome, this one is pretty darn good and hard to beat IMO. If you want super, super, detail, bite the bullet and get a ribbon or go for a slightly more articulate metal dome and live with the slight coldness/brittleness in the vocals.... If you want vocal presence, the Hiq is going to be hard to beat. Want something middle of the road, then give the Hertz a try! I could easily live with these tweeters in my car!

_added 4/26/07_
Max Fidelity MFDT30NEO Silk
*Special thanks to WLDock (Walt) for sending these tweeters to me for a little audition session!*

To start off, I must say that I didn't have a very good first impression of these tweeters. This was primarily based on their appearance. I guess I was expecting fairly high build quality and polish, based on the fact that they come as a pair in a (somewhat) attractive box. Pulling one out of the box, I was a little underwhelmed. I didn't care much for the unique swiveling mounting cup they came with, as they seemed bulky and quite unattractive. _Max Fi went through the trouble of providing this mounting hardware, but they provided two flush mount options, instead of a flush and a surface mount option.*_ Also, the plastic used for the mounting and the tweeter housing looks and feels cheap. It seems to me that Max Fidelity was going for low cost of materials and manufacture, not super high aesthetics, etc... Having said that, at least they did come with mounting hardware; the Seas Neos and LPGs don't! Also, if you take them out of the mounting cup, they are quite small, which is nice if you secure them with just the back screw or double sided tape!

* correction as of 4/27/07: the cups can be used for a flush mount, simply by removing the spring clips on the back, and utilizing the smaller of the two securing flanges. Thanks to Walt for this correction.

Anyhow, here's some shots of the mount and packaging on the Max Fis:

























OK now, so on to the sound: The first thing I noticed about the Max Fis was that they were quite efficient relative to others I've listened to. I found myself not only lowering the gain of the tweeter, but also raising the gain of the low pass to get this one dialed in. This was quite surprising, and gave me the hint that these might be a good choice if you want to get higher volume levels out of a tweeter. Although I did not play these tweeters (or any of them in my tests) super loud, they did impress me in the sense that they did sound a little bit more effortless or powerful than most of the other compacts I've auditioned. Aside from the great efficiency, I also thought the tweeters had a very slight bias to the mid/lower treble ranges, which may have also added to this impression. Taking a second look at the tweeter closely, you can see that the dome is quite large compared to the 1" Peerless HDS next to it, which seems to make alot of sense with my observation.

In terms of subjective "sound quality", I would say that the Max Fi is both airy and musical, with a warmer tone than most of the other tweeters in the group. As they stand, they are a nice sounding set of tweeters, living up to their good reputation. However, on the downside, I felt that this tweeter was not able to articulate details as crisply as I wanted. On some music selections, particularly classical ones, I felt that some of the details of the music got mixed together or washed out. Note however that this was compared to the other tweeters I had readily on hand: Alpine SPX, Hiq OWII, Peerless HDS. Now I recognize this could also be somewhat of a tuning issue as I applied no EQ to the tweeters, but alas that's how I felt. Also, note that this "lack of articulation" may not be bad for all, because it gives the tweeter (IMO) a somewhat "easy" quality.

Moving on to top end performance, these rank reasonably high to the competition. This surprised me looking at that huge dome!  Comparing to others, I didn't think these were quite as good as the Alpines or LPGs, but IMO were better than the Seas Neos. I've heard a couple of comparisons between the LPG25 and Max Fi, and I'd have to agree that the Max Fi is just slightly worse on the top end than the LPG, while maintaining reasonable lower end capability. As such, I'd personally choose the Max Fi hands down over the LPG 25 for my tastes. Having said that, I'd still take the Seas Neo over either. 

In as far as crossover frequency, these seemed to do well down near 2KHz in my session, but it seems 2.5KHz is just about right for them. In terms of musical selections, I enjoyed the sound of these most with vocal performances, although there was a hint of sibilance in some of the female singers I listened too, but this was by no means very objectionable. My comment above about articulation seems most relevant when listening to some of my classical music selections, and less so on other selections, so YMMV. And like countless other silk domes I've listened to, these aren't the type of tweeter you want if you are looking for the most impact/shimmer in percussion.

So to sum things up, if you don't critically listen to classical music alot, and you want a powerful, and fuller sound out of a tweeter, this one is definitely worth checking out!

Peerless HDS 810921
OK, so I know I was really anxious to hear these tweeters, and alot of people have been waiting for a review of them too. Well thanks to bdubs767 for selling them to me and making this happen! 

So I'll cut to the chase: I love these tweeters. I really want to at least try these in my car because to me they seem ideally suited for a kickpanel-tweeter 2-way front stage. (FYI, I'm actually toying around with both 2-way and 3-way options for my daily driver re-vamp)

Since it's getting late, let me summarize the details of my opinion in a few bullet points:
+ Awesome build quality and aesthetics. Love the metal face plate.
+ Excellent low end sensitivity and performance. I think it'll mate awesome with practically any mid: metal cone? who cares. I think this one would be awesome for practically any 2-way setup.
+ Very clean sound and low coloration. Wow! To me these tweeters seem devoid of any annoying this or that quality, distortion, etc..
+ Reasonably good top end: while they are no Hiquphon, ribbon, or even LPG, I felt the top end was good enough to satisfy me. Enough air to sound convincing, natural and realistic.
+ Great value: at $60 each, easily worth their cost and more IMO.
- Large format: sucks for car audio, but you don't get something for nothing!
- Not the most "exciting" sound: if you're looking for the most "blow you away" type sound, these won't suit. Clean they are. Realistic they seem to be. But they won't "slap you in the face" so to speak. To me, they kind massage you and then paint a beautiful picture, if that makes any sense. (figuratively speaking) 
- Better options out there IMO if you want to go 3-way.

_added, 6/14/07_
Rainbow CAL 28 Platinum
*Special thanks to Gabe (Se7en) who generously gave me the opportunity to listen to audition and review this beautiful set of tweeters!!!!*

So I'm sure this tweeter needs no introduction. It seems most people in car audio circles are very familiar with Rainbow products. Their reputation is obviously excellent, and as such, their products do hold a special place in the marketplace, commanding relatively high prices. This "Platinum Line" product is no exception, which is why this review was very fun for me to do! Even though I seem to buy/sell/trade speakers with great frequency these days, I find it hard to get my hands on a product like this as I'm usually shopping the classifieds . I must commend Rainbow for doing a good job keeping their product "stock" high. I hardly ever see any of their products on ebay, and I've yet to hear of fakes circulating around.... In any event, I digress....

This audition is the first time I've been able to really spend a good amount of time with any Rainbow product, and I must say that I'm impressed having had this experience. Starting from my initial impressions, I found the packaging and overall construction to be quite nice. The foam IMO is really the best way to keep these tweeters well protected, and that's good, given the fact that tweeter cases are machined from solid aluminum. It's interesting, because every surface of the tweeter is treated differently, and therefore has a unique appearance. The outward (top surface) has a very nicely painted gray grill, with a small and unobtrusive Rainbow logo. The surrounding flange is polished and anodized, while the back of the flange is left a little more raw with the machining marks still showing. On the back cup, the cylinder portion appears brushed, with the grain flowing with the depth of the cup. Finally, the rear chamfer and rear surface are both bead blasted and the Rainbow name, polarity (terminal) markings and "Platinum" insignia are pad printed in a nice soft gray tone. (note the rear cup is all anodized too) The appearance is simple, yet elegant: just what I like. To me, it's clear there was a great attention to detail paid on the appearance of this tweeter. (BTW, the provided angle mounts are equally simple and elegant looking.)

Some pictures:
























(If you want pictures inside, I think npdang has some in one of his review threads... I didn't take these tweeters fully apart!)

Now on the other hand, I, like so many others, didn't really like the speaker wire terminals on the back. Take a look:








They look out of place, make this already deep tweeter even deeper, and require a _tiny, tiny_ hex key to fasten. I can guarantee you that more than a couple of these little set screws have either been lost, stripped out, or damaged in some way by installers. But well, at least you can fasten your own wire to the terminals, and the terminals allow connection of wire from two different directions (axes of insertion), so I do see why Rainbow decided to go with this option. 

OK, so now on to the important part: the sound! I listened to these quite extensively, both in my home and in my car. The home setup is just as it's always been, while the car listening was done with my current 3-way front stage w/subs (Scan 12M midrange, Pioneer PRS as dedicated mid-bass, Boston Pro 12.5LF subs), all run with Alpine 9861/H701/C701 combo, and Phoenix Gold & Alpine amps. In car, the tweeters were placed in the kicks, next to the midrange drivers. See my pbase gallery for pictures of the car setup/install.

I found the Rainbow Platinum to be the smoothest, and most mellow sounding tweeter I've heard in the Rainbow lineup so far. (I've had short sessions with the CAL 27, CAL 26 Titan, and CAL 26 Silk) This quality is what I think most people seem to refer to as the "Rainbow Sound". I would have to agree with some of Derrin's (AVI) descriptions, where he comments that Rainbow tweeters "split the difference" between "detailed" and "musical". The Platinum fits this description quite well.

It's interesting, because I honestly cannot say that this tweeter did any one thing better than the other compacts I've listened too. Surely, the Seas Ref was more detailed, the Hertz was more neutral/accurate, the Scan was more full and robust in the lower registers, etc.. Also, when listening to the CAL28 compared to the Hiquphon head to head, the Rainbow sounded a little dull in comparison too. So why would I really like this tweeter? The simple answer is that it makes most music sound pretty darn good. I found the Plat to be quite forgiving relative to other "high end" tweeters, which meant that I could throw all kinds of music at it and still get very good sound. Poor recordings were rendered in a non-offensive way, which was refreshing after having spent considerable time with some quite detailed tweeters in my car. In my listening sessions, I did not find any response peakiness, shrillness of sound, or offensive tone at all. That surprised me alot, and made me realize Rainbow put some really good effort in this tweeter to "tune" it for this characteristic. As such, I found this to be perhaps the easiest tweeter to integrate in my system. Dropping them in, I hardly fussed with the crossover setting much, and I never actually reached for the EQ. High points for ease of use! (at least in MY install)

Switching gears now, I have to say that the one thing I would complain about with this tweeter was it's ability (or lack of, IMO) to render percussion with detail. Like other silk domes I've listened to, this one seems to color cymbals and percussion to make them seem somewhat flat. The attack and decay just didn't sound right to me; it was almost as if the percussionist in some pieces used a softer implement to hit their instrument. (think brush vs. stick.... sorta) Now the interesting part was that the Plat somewhat made up for this by its fairly nice dispersion on the top end. In other words, the tweeter almost fools you into thinking that its suppossed to sound this way.

In terms of crossover point, I had no problems with this tweeter down close to 2 KHz. They were very comfortable playing low, and as a two way worked well with the PRS Mids. Configured this way, I was pleasantly surprised at how full these tweeters sounded down in the lower registers. I was actually reminded of the Peerless HDS when listening to this configuration! When I added back the Scan12Ms as mids, I think I ended up crossing the Plats in the 4.5KHz range. So, I can see this tweeter working in both 2 or 3 way front stages quite well. 

So to sum things up, if you tend to like silk vs. metal, and enjoy a smooth, not fatiguing sound, I can't recommend a better compact dome than this one. The "Rainbow Sound" is definitely alluring in it's own way, and yeah, these would be very nice to run if I needed a compact dome! But for now, I'll stick with my Hiquphons.  Detail freaks need not apply here; they will be disappointed!

Oh yeah, and no need to get naked when listening to these tweeters either. 

I will report more when I actually get a chance to give it a go in-car. I'm hoping they work as well as I think they will in the harsh in-car environment!


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## johny_gudhel

shinjohn said:


> *Background Info*
> 
> The monitor utilizes a Seas 22TAF/G and Dayton RS-125S crossed at about 3.2KHz. Only a single channel was utilized. Tweeters were simply placed on top of the monitors as shown in the above picture, with no additional baffling. Technically, since the passive of the monitor was not bypassed, the 22TAF/G was still playing. This didn't seem to introduce any major problems with this testing though.


What? The tweeter is still playing and you just basically "add" another tweeter on top? Say it isn't so..


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## alphakenny1

no. he turned off the tweeter. i'll throw in some comments later on as well. i'm tired, .

edit: after reading that it was still on, like shinjohn said it didn't cause any problems.


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## npdang

Heheh... hiquphon ow2 is just a stepping stone to ribbons


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## cotdt

how come no ribbons were in this test?


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## dual700

alphakenny1 said:


> no. he turned off the tweeter. i'll throw in some comments later on as well. i'm tired, .
> 
> edit: after reading that it was still on, like shinjohn said it didn't cause any problems.


IMO, you guys should turn that tweeter off, really...
You are testing tweeters, having another tweeter on that I suppose running same frequency and so close together IS a problem..


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## ArcL100

Oh man, can't wait for full review!

Looks pretty intense!!!

-aaron


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## newtitan

why didnt you just disconnect the tweeter in the monitor speaker or would that have killed the passive control over the mdirange? seems rather inaccurate to have a tweeter playing "on top"?? of another tweeter while subjectively testing?


cant imagine how long that took though, NICE EFFORT


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## shinjohn

npdang said:


> Heheh... hiquphon ow2 is just a stepping stone to ribbons


Dude, you're killing me! (and my wallet!)


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## shinjohn

cotdt said:


> how come no ribbons were in this test?


Nobody had any to bring, but they are on my list of things to try!


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## shinjohn

On the disconnecting the monitor's tweeter issue: yeah, I would have liked to have taken the passive crossover and other tweeter *completely* out of the picture, but in all honestly since the speaker was only running low pass (actually band pass, since it did have a high pass filter too, however low it was set) it didn't make a noticable difference. When I started this testing, I put my ear literally right against the monitor's tweeter, and I couldn't hear any real output.


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## JMichaels

Man what an opportunity. I have to thank Shinjohn for throwing the get together. How many times do you get a chance to listen to so many good tweeters in one sitting. The equipment set up was great and it was cool to meet everyone.

There was no issue with the tweeter running off the passive as it wasn't getting any signal and produced no sound. It didn't affect the tests at all.


Those 0w2's! No hype they were nice.


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## rcurley55

Big thanks to Shin John for putting htis together and hosting it.

Both Hiquphons were my fav tweeters that we listended to. - for my taste, I like the OW1's a little better - I'm not a fan of a super airy or shimmery top end, so I like the more-laid back sound of the OW1-fs. Then again, I could be a bit biased  The OW2's are really great sounding as well.

For 33 bucks, you would be hard pressed to beat the Seas large format - were the Hiq's better? - you bet, but at $212 a pair vs. $66 a pair you get a whole lot of performance for the dollar.

For the small formats - the Scan 6000's are still one of my favorites, the early roll off doesn't bother me as it would others, so it's one of my picks. Another of my picks is the Lotus tweeter - really fantastic sounding with plenty of detail.

One thing is for sure - you can't listen to 3" midranges in a coffee cup - they all sound like poo.


----------



## ocuriel

Very nice review. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## 03blueSI

Any review of the Legatia tweets or mids? Also, out of these, which should work well in a-pillar? I was thinking of trying the new Seas RT27F


----------



## alphakenny1

well the rt27f has rolls off pretty bad past 10-12khz. i emailed eng and he said on his PEQ at 18khz, put it to the biggest Q, and added 7dbs. he said that helped a lot on the top end. i have the rt25a and probably be best in kicks on axis, and if off axis only slightly do it.


----------



## 03blueSI

Thanks. I am really looking at going back to an a-pillar setup, too many people kicking my tweeters when they were in the kicks. For my application maybe the LPG 26NA with its rising response would be best suited.


----------



## rcurley55

03blueSI said:


> Any review of the Legatia tweets or mids? Also, out of these, which should work well in a-pillar? I was thinking of trying the new Seas RT27F


Some guys listened to the L1's - I didn't really pay much attention as I own them. The L3 "test" we did was well, crude as best, and I wouldn't want anyone to base opinions on the L3 driver based on what we did with them.

They are great little speakers - if you want a small format midrange, definitely consider them. Both drivers can be placed near anywhere in a car and work.

You are in the bay right? If so, I may be able to setup a way for you to audition them if interested.


----------



## Rbsarve

Awaiting the completion of this eagerly.

On the mids, you could make a couple of baffle adapter plates that goes into the speaker hole of the two-way that you are using.

I´ve only had a short listening to the Legatia 3 and found it to be very pleasing and have a warm/robust timbre. Quite likeable, and quite different character from the TG9.


----------



## bobditts

what? no morel supremos?


----------



## 3.5max6spd

bery niiiceee!<borat>


----------



## shinjohn

Bump!
I added a review for the Hiquphon tweeters, though it's probably WAY longer than it needs to be. In any event, skim it if you don't have time.
More to come soon.


----------



## shinjohn

bobditts said:


> what? no morel supremos?


Wanna send me a set to listen to?


----------



## jay

shinjohn said:


> OK, continued...
> 
> *Test Method*
> I listened to these tweeters over the course of several days. I tried to do maybe 2 tweeters an evening, or I listened until my ears felt fatigued. I probably spent a total of 4+ hours listening time on my own. I kept a notebook and jotted down things as I made observations.
> 
> For each tweeter, I used Vivaldi's Four Seasons - Spring (Trevor Pinnock, the English Concert) as a reference piece to set initial crossover point and level. I then moved through my test music suite selection by selection. For each round of listening, I would adjust crossover frequency and tweeter level as necessary (low pass level stayed constant throughout). Typically, I started at 2KHz HP and moved up in frequency until things sounded pretty clean to me. I also changed my listening position frequently, so I could evaluate off axis response, as well as how these sounded near field (like in a car). BTW, before each session, I tried to listen to my speakers (monitors) full range to "calibrate" my ears to a somewhat flat response.
> 
> During our mini-meet/Sat. afternoon group tweeter listening session, we had a brutally long session. My ears were definitely shot by the end. We went for 3.5 hours straight with only a single break about 2 hours into it.... It was very tiring... but fun! We started with a little listening to the monitors to "calibrate" ears, and then went through tweeters one after another, similar to how I did. People were free to adjust crossover slope, level and overall volume as they pleased.
> 
> _added, 12/12/06:_
> One last thing... I don't typically listen to my music at very high volume levels, so testing was done at moderate volumes. I did not try to push each tweeter to it's physical limit, because to be honest, it's really not important to me. Any of these tweeters plays plenty loud for my taste! (this also kept me from inducing any amount of marital strain. D) So I won't comment on a tweeter's ability to go really loud. I just don't know and don't care.
> 
> *Detailed Reviews*
> Hiquphon OWI-fs & OWII
> I am lumping the two of these tweeters together because I feel they both stand out significantly from the rest of this particular test group. Also, I'd say their sound is pretty similar, and the differences between them aren't as large as the differences between other tweeters in this grouping.
> 
> The best way to describe their sound is to make a comparison. I at one time had a set of Dynaudio 1.3 MKIIs in my possession, and my first reaction was: Wow, these sound similar to, and just as good as those old Dyn tweeters! Well, in fact, a short amount of time convinced me that they sounded quite a bit better! A little bit of web research reveals there is another person who made a similar comparison to the tweeter in this speaker (the D-260), so I'll reference this review from Dave Ellis' website for more detail.
> 
> I ended up dialing in the OWII tweeter to just a hair above ~3KHz HP (the knob on my crossover only has a coarse gradation). After this initial setting, I never felt the urge to turn the knob to tweak. These tweets just really sounded great. There were two things that struck me the most about them:
> 1) The tweeters were so nice to listen to, I didn't seem to mind it too much if the tweeter level was just a tad too high. Likewise, if the level was slightly low, I still felt they articulated incredibly well. They were exceptionally detailed but not overbearing or sibilant. This IMO is hard to get right.
> 2) The off axis response was amazing. The talk is true that these tweeters really spread sound in a room. To be honest, I don't think this is always a good thing for a car audio setup, but it sure makes listening inside my house _an experience_.  My suspicion is that this characteristic would make them ideal for use in kicks, even if they were aligned a little off axis....
> 
> Subsequent to my in-home listening, I tried the OWII tweeters out in my latest project car, the 2005 STI. The owner of the vehicle insisted he wanted them up high and since we had the tweeter wiring there anyway (we moved the old LPGs up to the A-pillar, per his wishes) I hooked them up and we tried them out _sitting on the dash_. To my surprise, they sounded quite amazing in this location, though a bit brighter than I remember in my home, obviously due to reflections of the environment. Up until this moment, I was unable to get satisfactory treble performance in this vehicle (well, results that I was pleased with). T/A, EQing, crossover adjustments and tweaking didn't seem to cut it with the LPG 25s mounted high. A couple of minor adjustments and the results were quite amazing with the OWIIs. The owner was very happy, and I'll say that I was quite impressed with the sound too. We aimed them dead on axis to the driver, and there weren't huge problems with that setup. The crossover point ended up at (IIRC) 3.2 or 3.6KHz HP to the tweeter and underlapped at about 2.8KHz on the Seas CA18 mid-bass in the door. Though still not my taste to have one tweeter up in my face and the other much farther away, I'd say the setup works. So well that these _large format_ tweeters remain masking taped to the dash and A-pillars in this arrangement for now (sorry, no pictures of this atrocity). I am left to now think about how to glass these large format tweeters somewhere up high..... This is an interesting challenge, indeed.
> 
> On to the OWI-fs... After the above in-car OWII experience, my inclination is to say that the OWI would probably work better in a mobile environment, due to their (relatively, and slightly) smoother sound. Even though I didn't try the the OWII in the kick, I felt they were slightly aggressive sounding in the car, relative to in the home. Funny thing is that this is exactly what the owner wants and likes! Now I'd like to experiment more with the OWII in the kick location, and if I do, I'll update this thread.
> 
> Back to the differences, I think the OWI's real advantage is the slightly greater damping of the dome, which allows it to play lower and smoother across its bandwidth. Relative to the OWII, the OWI is a little less "edgy" (for lack of a better term). The attack of cymbals and percussion wasn't as sharp/hard on the OWI as the OWII. However, I think they both discern a very high amount of detail, and neither got overbearing, IMO. If you need a slightly lower playing tweeter, go OWI. If you are going 3-way, or have a high playing paper or poly mid-bass in a 2-way, the OWII could work, assuming you also want a slightly brighter sound.
> 
> More reviews coming soon....
> Don't worry, I'll write ALOT LESS on the others. I also plan to rank order them once I get all my thoughts down.
> 
> to be continued.... and apologies for the really long-windedness!


a BIG X2, agree with pretty much everything said. 

on a sidenote, if you get the chance, you should definitely play around with the ow2's in the kicks (make sure you try them off-axis as well)


----------



## zfactor

hmm maybe ill have to try these after all; just so damn big...


----------



## alphakenny1

zfactor said:


> hmm maybe ill have to try these after all; just so damn big...


i dunno for some reason in pictures they look huge but in real life, they look pretty small.


----------



## rcurley55

alphakenny1 said:


> i dunno for some reason in pictures they look huge but in real life, they look pretty small.


that's true, they really aren't that big in the grand scheme of things - of course next to an lpg it's huge, but think of it as a tiny midrange....they are totally worth it.


----------



## kevin k.

Nice review! Thanks for taking the time to test, compare, and post your findings...  

Maybe I'm mistaken, but those OWII's sure look familiar...  

The OWII's work just as well as the OWI's in kicks. The observations regarding the OWII are correct and they do sound a little "hotter' than the OWI's... the OWII's are designed for mids with a rising response and are 2 db down from 2 kHz to about 4.5 kHz, shelved up to 5 kHz, and are then flat out to 20 kHz, so getting the OWII's level matched may require a little eq-ing. At least that has been my experience having used the various OW models for a few years now.

The OWI-fs tweeters can be run a little lower than the rest... Dave Ellis tells me he's used them down to 1.6 kHz... I've tried it and they handled that x-over point just fine, although their sound was getting a little thin and I decided that I liked them better at a higher x-over.


----------



## kevin k.

npdang said:


> Heheh... hiquphon ow2 is just a stepping stone to ribbons


Ribbons are SUPER fragile and will explode (killing everybody) when the car door is closed.

 

Or, could the OW's really be a stepping stone to the D3004's...? You KNOW you liked 'em, Nguyen!


----------



## bdubs767

kevin k. said:


> Ribbons are SUPER fragile and will explode when the car door is closed.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, could the OW's really be a stepping stone to the D3004's...?



damn you too and complex driving me nuttz....which tweeter to get d3004, ow1, or hds     

Great reveiw though guys.


----------



## shinjohn

rcurley55 said:


> that's true, they really aren't that big in the grand scheme of things - of course next to an lpg it's huge, but think of it as a tiny midrange....they are totally worth it.


I had the same perception (on size), and I realized why when I first held a Hiquphon in my hand. Most of us are so used to looking at 1" domes that we mentally project the 1" size onto practically any picture we see of a tweeter. The 3/4" dome of the Hiqs are comparatively small, and you don't realize this until you see it in person. My first thought was, "Wow, that's a tiny dome!" It's actually quite deceptive.

One additional thought was that for the STI install, I'm actually thinking of taking these beauties and mounting them on a lathe to machine off the mounting flange (similar to what Chad did with his Morels). I'm a _tiny_ bit concerned about difraction and such, but I figure this is a *CAR* anyway; difraction of the flange missing is probably a minimal effect compared to the rest of the car audio environement (reflection, other sources of difraction, etc..) Of course if/when I get to this, I'll post pictures....


----------



## shinjohn

HUGE BUMP!!!!

WARNING!!! Long review text added to first page!!!!!!

OK, so I added an enormous amount of detailed review text, as well as added my own subjective ratings at the end of the 1st post. YMMV, but feel free to comment, agree, disagree, what not. I just wanted to do as good a job as I could to detail things for all the DIY newbies who are looking for comparative subjective review on many tweeters. Questions, let me know.

Thanks again to npdang.


----------



## ocuriel

your description of the 26na is dead on.


----------



## yermolovd

Thanks for the read.
I got LPG 25NFAs and I agree with you prety much a lot.


----------



## newtitan

holy crab cakes, that is a SERIOUS write up WOW man thanks for posting all of that


----------



## Rbsarve

Lovely write-up. Must say I agree with the findings on the one´s I´ve listened too.

And for those lookig for an inexpensive 3-way set those $5 Daytons and a set of TG9´s together with the midbass of your choise should really be a budget cracker!


----------



## shinjohn

Thanks for the comments guys. Hope people enjoy it! 



Rbsarve said:


> And for those lookig for an inexpensive 3-way set those $5 Daytons and a set of TG9´s together with the midbass of your choise should really be a budget cracker!


I just heard the TG9s in the kicks of Peter's (alphakenny1's) car and yes, they were quite nice for the price!
The bargains really do abound in the DIY realm!


----------



## jay

yesterday, i spent the better part of two hours typing up a detailed response with my 2 cents regarding the review. however, as it seems to happen quite often when i type up these long responses....i hit the post button and the screen froze you would think since this has happened on several occasions, i would know by now to ctrl+c before clicking anything   


anyhow, that being said...i really don't feel like typing everything out again, so i'll just skip to the conclusion with my subjective sound quality ratings (this is what most people are looking for anyway): 

1. hiquphon ow1-fs & ow2
2. seas 27tbfc/g
3. scan 2904/6000
4. rainbow cal27
5. seas rt25a
6. vifa d26nc
7. vifa xt25sc50
8. seas neo 27tafnc/g
9. dayton nd20ta


couple things to note regarding my ratings: 
- we didn't listen to the two lpg's or the diyma silk prototype during that review session (at least i don't remember listening to them that day). therefore, they are not included in this rating. 

- my ratings are strictly based off of on-axis response only. i did not move around the room to listen to off-axis response. 

- my ratings are based on sound quality as-tested, meaning i'm not taking into consideration usability (i.e.- how low they can cross, fr anomalies that can be fixed with filters, etc.). 


if anyone has any questions regarding my ratings, feel free to ask. i would just rather not type up a detailed response for all the tweets in a single post


----------



## shinjohn

Nice review, John.
I can totally see where you're coming from with your ratings. That's why I ended up typing so much so people could get a flavor for why I would prefer one tweeter over another. Everyone values each quality differently...

And I know about the typing things up and then losing all of your post thing. It's happened to me on other forums. That's why for reviews, I do them in a word processor, and then post it all at once! I feel your pain!!!!!

So one more question: did you think some of them were close? That's one of the reasons I grouped tweeters together was because I felt their performance was pretty close, though they sounded distinctly different. Just curious.


----------



## jay

yes, my grouping was similar to yours. the hiqs and 27tbfc/g's in the top grouping, followed by the three medium sized tweets (compact tweet posers - scan 2904/6000, rainbow cal27, and lotus rt25a), and the rest in the third grouping. guess there's nothing like displacement eh? 

by they way, thanks again for opening up your house for the review session. much appreciated


----------



## 3.5max6spd

Not bad for Rainbows 3rd best tweeter!

Hiq's are def amazing, if i ever go back to 2way where i could fit them in my kicks, those would be a tough choice to pass up. I remember being romanced by OWI's last year at a meet.

Thanks to those who put in the time and effort!


----------



## jay

3.5max6spd said:


> Not bad for Rainbows 3rd best tweeter!
> 
> Hiq's are def amazing, if i ever go back to 2way where i could fit them in my kicks, those would be a tough choice to pass up. I remember being romanced by OWI's last year at a meet.
> 
> Thanks to those who put in the time and effort!


not bad at all. the cal27's were definitely "smooth" sounding. within that group of three, i thought the scan 2904/6000 had the best tonality and overall sound..just missing a bit of "sparkle" on the top end due to the roll-off. it was really more of a toss up between the cal27's and rt25a's for 2nd and 3rd in that grouping. both exemplify certain characteristics, with the cal27's being smooth and the rt25a's being detailed. as a byproduct of that smoothness, i thought the cal27's sacrificed some detail. the rt25a's had great detail, but it seemed a bit exaggerated in the mid to upper treble...which caused it to lose out a bit tonally imo. i ranked them the way i did due to personal tastes


----------



## 3.5max6spd

jay said:


> not bad at all. the cal27's were definitely "smooth" sounding. within that group of three, i thought the scan 2904/6000 had the best tonality and overall sound..just missing a bit of "sparkle" on the top end due to the roll-off. it was really more of a toss up between the cal27's and rt25a's for 2nd and 3rd in that grouping. both exemplify certain characteristics, with the cal27's being smooth and the rt25a's being detailed. as a byproduct of that smoothness, i thought the cal27's sacrificed some detail. the rt25a's had great detail, but it seemed a bit exaggerated in the mid to upper treble...which caused it to lose out a bit tonally imo. i ranked them the way i did due to personal tastes


Still superb detail for soft domes out of those Cal27's when you consider the Seas is a hard dome. The scans imo are not as detailed as the Cal27's up top, but have a tad more to offer at lower trebble. I currently use the CAL 28's coming from the Cal27's, and the 27's were a bit more lively and can boogie with less strain at extreme higher volumes than the 28's.

I'd be curious, if you played track 2 of the Postal Service: Give Up, with the compact tweets in this review which you'd feel could deliver those transients with least effort across the volume range


----------



## shinjohn

3.5max6spd said:


> Still superb detail for soft domes out of those Cal27's when you consider the Seas is a hard dome. The scans imo are not as detailed as the Cal27's up top, but have a tad more to offer at lower trebble. I currently use the CAL 28's coming from the Cal27's, and the 27's were a bit more lively and can boogie with less strain at extreme higher volumes than the 28's.
> 
> I'd be curious, if you played track 2 of the Postal Service: Give Up, with the compact tweets in this review which you'd feel could deliver those transients with least effort across the volume range


I agree. I recently heard the Cal27s in Peter's (alphakenny1's) car installed in his A-pillars and "lively" is a good term for them. In fact, I found them to be a bit "hot" for my tastes, but dynamic, and still (relatively) smooth.
Would love to hear the 28s!


----------



## jearhart

shinjohn said:


> Would love to hear the 28s!


me too!!! i have the cal25s and i love them, i can only imagine what the 27 and 28s sound like. i think either the 26 or the 27s will be my next step up. anybody played with both of them?


----------



## alphakenny1

i'm sure mr. 3.5 has played with both.


----------



## FoxPro5

Very nice review and write up Shinjohn!

I saw a picture of the Seas Neo metal dome in the top picture and then was looking for it in the review, but you kept mentioning the "G" version (TAFNC/G). Are your sure they aren't the "D" version (TAFNC/D)?? I know Seas nomenclature is pretty weird and I suppose it doesn't help that they are incorrectly named on Madisound's website: http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=128200.6915&pid=2138
But here's the real proof I guess:









Just to help clear up any confusion.  Again, thanks for the time and effort putting all of this together. I declare you the "Review of The Year" award winner for 2006.


----------



## FoxPro5

Also, I wanted to ask all you guys which tweeter you would pick from 6-8K up?? Seems to be the sweet spot in my car and I typically cut at 12dB slope...so I miss out on all that great low end treble I suppose. TIA!


----------



## shinjohn

B-Squad said:


> Very nice review and write up Shinjohn!
> 
> I saw a picture of the Seas Neo metal dome in the top picture and then was looking for it in the review, but you kept mentioning the "G" version (TAFNC/G). Are your sure they aren't the "D" version (TAFNC/D)?? I know Seas nomenclature is pretty weird and I suppose it doesn't help that they are incorrectly named on Madisound's website: http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=128200.6915&pid=2138
> But here's the real proof I guess:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to help clear up any confusion.


Confirming you are correct. I just used the Madisound PN. I'll go back and update/edit my review.  Thanks for the proof!



B-Squad said:


> Again, thanks for the time and effort putting all of this together. I declare you the "Review of The Year" award winner for 2006.


Thanks, man. I hoped people would get something out of it. It's still pretty tough because things are very subjective, and everyone's tastes are a little different, but it was fun nonetheless. And through it all, I have alot of experience to take away, which helps me immensely. I don't think of myself as being _too_ much of a newbie anymore!


----------



## shinjohn

B-Squad said:


> Also, I wanted to ask all you guys which tweeter you would pick from 6-8K up?? Seems to be the sweet spot in my car and I typically cut at 12dB slope...so I miss out on all that great low end treble I suppose. TIA!


This is a tough question because it really depends on what kind of sound you like. Overall I felt the Hiqs did a great job all the way to the very top, without sounding overexagerated or unnatural. But if you want a very exciting/dynamic sound, one of the others _might_ be better.

If I really had to pick a tweeter for the tippy top end only, I might pick the Rainbow or Lotus. And since the Rainbow had much better off axis response it would probably edge out, even though it was arguably a little less "exacting" in sound. If I were strapped for cash, one of the LPGs. 25 if you like smoother acoustic, 26 if you favor impact in your percussion.

Keep in mind that I wish I had more time with the Lotus and Rainbow though..... 

And realisitcally, I think it would be highly dependent on your install. Peter tried the Lotus' in his kicks and they worked great there, but IIRC, were not as good in his A-pillars. I think he's happier with the Rainbows in the pillars. I think the LPG 25s suck in pillars, but I did not try to cross at 6KHz, so that could be a different story for your application.

My 2 cents.


----------



## alphakenny1

right now i got the lpg 26na in the pillars and they sound great! the lpg 26na is true to its great off axis response and sparkly top end. more detailed than the rainbows but yes the lpg's do miss that low end treble that both the lotus and rainbows got (lotus has edge in that department though). i got mine crossed at 12.5khz @ 6db right now. these lpg's do not get harsh at all (we already knew that). i also have no lowpass on the vifas so the vifas take care of the low end treble a bit. but i'm gonna go back to the rainbows as the lotus' are going back in the kicks and i need a tweeter that can be crossed a bit lower.


----------



## shinjohn

alphakenny1 said:


> right now i got the lpg 26na in the pillars and they sound great! the lpg 26na is true to its great off axis response and sparkly top end. more detailed than the rainbows but yes the lpg's do miss that low end treble that both the lotus and rainbows got (lotus has edge in that department though). i got mine crossed at 12.5khz @ 6db right now. these lpg's do not get harsh at all (we already knew that). i also have no lowpass on the vifas so the vifas take care of the low end treble a bit. but i'm gonna go back to the rainbows as the lotus' are going back in the kicks and i need a tweeter that can be crossed a bit lower.


Thanks for the update, good to know. That's what we're gonna try in the STI too, 26s up high and some midranges in the kicks... Just as a test setup. But my buddy is very attached to those OWIIs already so we'll see if that pans out!  

I also spent a few more minutes tuning the system (for staging/imaging) yesterday and I gotta say it's pretty darn good! The OWIIs in the corners of the dash + CA18s in the doors works surprisingly well. Very clean, coherent and spacious now, with pretty reasonable tonal balance. I'm telling him we should just figure out how to get the OWIIs mounted cleanly and call it a system!


----------



## alphakenny1

shinjohn said:


> Thanks for the update, good to know. That's what we're gonna try in the STI too, 26s up high and some midranges in the kicks... Just as a test setup. But my buddy is very attached to those OWIIs already so we'll see if that pans out!
> 
> I also spent a few more minutes tuning the system (for staging/imaging) yesterday and I gotta say it's pretty darn good! The OWIIs in the corners of the dash + CA18s in the doors works surprisingly well. Very clean, coherent and spacious now, with pretty reasonable tonal balance. I'm telling him we should just figure out how to get the OWIIs mounted cleanly and call it a system!


well if you want you can audition the vifa tg9's if i decide this week that i go back to the lotus midranges. but only under the condition that you use the lpg 26na and sell me the ow2 . lol nah seroiusly if you want to borrow them i'd lend to you for a bit.


----------



## Whiterabbit

jay said:


> yesterday, i spent the better part of two hours typing up a detailed response with my 2 cents regarding the review. however, as it seems to happen quite often when i type up these long responses....i hit the post button and the screen froze you would think since this has happened on several occasions, i would know by now to ctrl+c before clicking anything


I'm surprised you didn't just leave it. This happens to me very very regularly, and I just leave the window (even if it finally updates to say "not responding"). Every time, it will eventually post. just takes awhile.

Try it next time IE freezes!


----------



## npdang

Very nice and thorough review! I'm curious, since no baffle was used that would have a dramatic impact on the large format tweets with the larger 4" flanges versus the smaller tweets, especially in the lower octaves.

Personally, I don't really like the Scans. Too mushy and shut in for me  One of the best moves I ever made was swapping them for LPG's... it opened up a whole new world of space and detail for me.


----------



## shinjohn

alphakenny1 said:


> well if you want you can audition the vifa tg9's if i decide this week that i go back to the lotus midranges. but only under the condition that you use the lpg 26na and sell me the ow2 . lol nah seroiusly if you want to borrow them i'd lend to you for a bit.


LOL. Let me know what you do. I wouldn't mind taking you up on that offer! Except for the selling you the OWIIs part.


----------



## shinjohn

npdang said:


> Very nice and thorough review! I'm curious, since no baffle was used that would have a dramatic impact on the large format tweets with the larger 4" flanges versus the smaller tweets, especially in the lower octaves.


I was acutally thinking about that a little, and I'm sure there was some impact, but probably minor IMO. Looking at my notes, I found that I crossed both large formats comfortably high relative to some of the compacts. The Scan was crossed the lowest, and also seemed to subjectively have the best lower treble response (IMO).

But I think you are dead right in that there are alot of variables here, so these opinions are particular to our test circumstances, and thus the long winded explaination of what exactly was done and how. I myself tested a few of these tweeters in a car, and found their sound to be quite different than what I experienced in my home. I even took one of my Dyn MD100 tweeters from my daily driver, to see what it sounded like in my home setup. That was really interesting, because I think they sound much better in the kick of my car than unbaffled with my home stereo. So install and application will again have a large impact on the overall sound. But in the end, I feel reasonably satisfied that I have some sense of relative performance of these guys in my head, having gone through this audition experience.


----------



## jay

Whiterabbit said:


> I'm surprised you didn't just leave it. This happens to me very very regularly, and I just leave the window (even if it finally updates to say "not responding"). Every time, it will eventually post. just takes awhile.
> 
> Try it next time IE freezes!


steve, i left the window open for another 2+ hours after it said "not responding"...no go


----------



## npdang

That's odd. I have no problems at work, at home, at my parent's house, at the mall, at the pho restaurant lol.


----------



## 3.5max6spd

Guys...you have to DOUBLE click FAST. Thats the only time it works problem free for me. I've lost alot of responses and PM 's by clicking once or too slow.


----------



## rcurley55

you know, the more I look at mounting tweeters in my car, I think I may give the LPG's a chance...I only need 6k and up, and the lpg mounting cup would make them super easy to do and non-intrusive - guess I gotta call madisound - 

so lpg26 is the consensus for pillar mounted tweeters?


----------



## shinjohn

rcurley55 said:


> you know, the more I look at mounting tweeters in my car, I think I may give the LPG's a chance...I only need 6k and up, and the lpg mounting cup would make them super easy to do and non-intrusive - guess I gotta call madisound -
> 
> so lpg26 is the consensus for pillar mounted tweeters?


They're not a bad option, but FYI.... if you want smooth sound, Hiquphons these are NOT. Depending on your tastes I'd characterize their top end as either being "brutally honest" or "a little too bright" but tuning is the big wildcard.

Howevre I agree, they are small and easy to mount.


----------



## rcurley55

shinjohn said:


> They're not a bad option, but FYI.... if you want smooth sound, Hiquphons these are NOT. Depending on your tastes I'd characterize their top end as either being "brutally honest" or "a little too bright" but tuning is the big wildcard.
> 
> Howevre I agree, they are small and easy to mount.


true - I'd be comparing them to my UR1's from 6khz and up though - you think the 25's would work, or should I bite the bullet and use the dls....


----------



## jay

rcurley55 said:


> true - I'd be comparing them to my UR1's from 6khz and up though - you think the 25's would work, or should I bite the bullet and use the dls....


rob, knowing your tastes, i think you might want to opt for the 25's

although you can always meet up with shinjohn to try out the 26na's first.


----------



## jay

3.5max6spd said:


> Guys...you have to DOUBLE click FAST. Thats the only time it works problem free for me. I've lost alot of responses and PM 's by clicking once or too slow.


manny, thanks for the tip, i'll definitely keep that in mind next time i type up a lengthy response


----------



## shinjohn

Bump!

I added the Fountek JP3 and Alpine SPX (XT19 derivative) to my reviews on the first page. I updated the pictures and my summary ratings, and also included detailed individual reviews. Enjoy!

Disclaimer: I now understand what npdang goes through when writing reviews of speakers during separate listening sessions.  It's so much easier to compare when you have speakers side by side and can a/b compare them. So don't begin to think my reviews are gospel in any way, but are my own perceptions and opinions based on my quite imperfect memory.


----------



## harrier

Thanks for putting the effort to review so many tweeters, I'm sure it's a tough job  .
I kind of agree with your review cos I have the Fountek NeoCd & Scan 6000 now except I really like the sound of the ribbons. But you need to set the gain to match the midbass very carefully. 
Well done!


----------



## ATB

I (and probably others) am very curious on the how C720PRS tweeter ranks among the rest here. Would you be willing to compare it against the rest of these if I sent you a pair?


----------



## shinjohn

ATB said:


> I (and probably others) am very curious on the how C720PRS tweeter ranks among the rest here. Would you be willing to compare it against the rest of these if I sent you a pair?


Sure, I'd be glad to. Send me a PM and we can set something up.


----------



## shinjohn

UPS Guy just dropped this off today:









So they got here safely. They're still wrapped in the plastic, never hooked up!

What a great day, a whole bunch of packages, and I didn't even buy anything!  

I'm going to listen to these soon, and get them sent back shortly thereafter. Thanks to ATB for sending them to me to listen to.


----------



## khail19

Cool, I've got a set of those on the way as well (the full set though). Can't wait to hear another review!


----------



## Dulyman

are those the Hertz mille Tweets?they look like it???


----------



## shinjohn

Dulyman said:


> are those the Hertz mille Tweets?they look like it???


Pioneer (Premier) PRS Tweets.


----------



## Dulyman

shinjohn said:


> Pioneer (Premier) PRS Tweets.


looking forward to the Results....


----------



## mk1982

how are the PRS tweets going ?


----------



## shinjohn

OK Gang,
Apologies for the little hiatus there. I was out of town for a few days this week and had very limited internet access. I'm back now and catching up on reviews and such.

Just added, Reviews of:
*Dynaudio MD100*
*Pioneer Premier PRS*

Also updated summary notes, pictures, etc...

One thing I must say: I can't believe how much time I've spent typing up reviews!!!!!  

I do feel that I did my best to be fair and balanced with my reviews, but of course, this is all subjective and based solely on my own opinions and tastes. YMMV. My biggest epiphany: comparing the Dynaudio MD100 head to head to the $26/pair Alpine SPX, and hands down liking the SPXs better. Ouch. Viva la DIY!

Thanks again to ATB for allowing me to borrow his PRS tweets for this review!

Hope you enjoy!

And as always.... questions, comments, etc.. are always welcome.


----------



## crxsir121

So how do those premier prs tweeters compare to the rest of the group??? 




shinjohn said:


> OK Gang,
> Apologies for the little hiatus there. I was out of town for a few days this week and had very limited internet access. I'm back now and catching up on reviews and such.
> 
> Just added, Reviews of:
> *Dynaudio MD100*
> *Pioneer Premier PRS*
> 
> Also updated summary notes, pictures, etc...
> 
> One thing I must say: I can't believe how much time I've spent typing up reviews!!!!!
> 
> I do feel that I did my best to be fair and balanced with my reviews, but of course, this is all subjective and based solely on my own opinions and tastes. YMMV. My biggest epiphany: comparing the Dynaudio MD100 head to head to the $26/pair Alpine SPX, and hands down liking the SPXs better. Ouch. Viva la DIY!
> 
> Thanks again to ATB for allowing me to borrow his PRS tweets for this review!
> 
> Hope you enjoy!
> 
> And as always.... questions, comments, etc.. are always welcome.


----------



## shinjohn

crxsir121 said:


> So how do those premier prs tweeters compare to the rest of the group???


Look at the first post in this thread. I have all the tweeters rank ordered.


----------



## mk1982

thats says a lot about the SPX component set !


----------



## shinjohn

mk1982 said:


> thats says a lot about the SPX component set !


Well, not the set, but the tweeter, yes.

I haven't listened to the set but have heard not so positive things about the mid-woofer.

Keep in mind nothing's perfect either. I really like the sound of the tweeter, but it is small, won't play low, and can't play super loud. For many, those last two characteristics are deal breakers.

If you aren't an SPL guy, I could see the Alpine tweeter, mated with a pair of Peerless Exclusives, and your choice of sub for a really fine, HIGH VALUE 2-way setup. Plenty of other great options for 3-way too.


----------



## ATB

Great review, thanks for testing out my pioneer tweeters. Let me pick your brain based on what you heard.

I have the Pio comp set, but plan to run them active. 

1) I have the option of mounting the tweets on or off axis. Which config sounded better to you?

2) I also have a set of the alpine tweets, don't plan to play my system super loud and tend to prefer a brighter, more detailed tweeter. Based on your listening, would the alpine be a better fit?


----------



## ocuriel

This review just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## shinjohn

ATB said:


> Great review, thanks for testing out my pioneer tweeters. Let me pick your brain based on what you heard.
> 
> I have the Pio comp set, but plan to run them active.
> 
> 1) I have the option of mounting the tweets on or off axis. Which config sounded better to you?


I think this depends alot more on your vehicle's configuration/constraints, and your planned mounting location. I felt these tweeters did well off axis, similar to the Dynaudios. Generally speaking, my experience is that if you mount the tweeters farther away in a non-reflective environment (like in kicks), on axis or close to on axis works better. A highly reflective environment like the A-pillars (also closer to your ears), generally off-axis is better. What location were you thinking in your install?



ATB said:


> 2) I also have a set of the alpine tweets, don't plan to play my system super loud and tend to prefer a brighter, more detailed tweeter. Based on your listening, would the alpine be a better fit?


It depends on how you define bright and detailed. If you are looking for a razor sharp edge, something else might do better for you. The Seas large format and Seas Lotus Ref (metal dome) come to mind there.

If you have, in the past, tended to like soft dome tweeters over metal ones (I know, I'm generalizing), than the Alpine would be a great choice. I say this because the Alpine has a very mellow quality to it, which I like. Very detailed (airy) on the top end, and easy to listen to, but I wouldn't characterize this as a "bright" sounding tweeter. Tell me more about some speakers you've listened to (home or car audio) and like/dislike, and I can give you more definitive advice.


----------



## shinjohn

ocuriel said:


> This review just keeps getting better and better.


Thanks, man. So how are the Rainbow kicks working out now?


----------



## ATB

Sail pannel / upper door mounting for the tweeter. 

I have tended to like metal dome tweets, but I will probably give the pios a try 1st and then the alpines since I have them already. Next step would probably be the seas lotus hard domes.


----------



## shinjohn

ATB said:


> Sail pannel / upper door mounting for the tweeter.
> 
> I have tended to like metal dome tweets, but I will probably give the pios a try 1st and then the alpines since I have them already. Next step would probably be the seas lotus hard domes.


Sounds good, let me know how it goes.

My guess is that you'll find the Alpines better at the highest octaves much more than the Pioneers. Between the two, I really think the Alpine is far better in that regard.

If installing in your sails, I would start by pointing them more towards the center of the vehicle, between the two seats. Then go more toward straight (aimed at each other) or even more on axis to experiment. You gotta be willing to experiment to get the right setup for your vehicle. Good Luck!


----------



## npdang

Keep in mind guys, even 2 tweeters mounted directly on axis... one with poor top end dispersion, and the other with good top end dispersion... will sound significantly different. Better top end dispersion improves the sense of space and upper end detail... but can also be too thin or hyper detailed. Poor top end dispersion tends to sound fuller, more direct, and with less micro detail up top but can also sound shut-in and dull.


----------



## ocuriel

shinjohn said:


> Thanks, man. So how are the Rainbow kicks working out now?


I'm starting to love them. They have been sounding awesome the last few days.


----------



## JAG

ocuriel said:


> I'm starting to love them. They have been sounding awesome the last few days.


He he he he he he he he ... I could just go on and on ..... But I'll just say this : Told ya     

I'm really glad you are enjoying them .... and indeed , they DO take some time to break in properly.


----------



## JAG

OK .... about tweets .....

I have read through sooooo many reviews on this and other sites , and find it simply amazing how many people always rank the Rainbow tweets among the best available in head to head testing. 

Words like " smooth and detailed " always come forth. People are always talking about how they seem to split the difference in the hyper detailed tweeters, and the musical smooth tweeters ..... NEVER finding them offensive in any way , and almost always talking about how VERY non-fatiguing they are , without the expense of being rolled off.

Sounds like the perfect tweeter to me .... Maybe that's why I use them


----------



## ATB

If only we could by them for $20/set like the alpine


----------



## shinjohn

Bump! Here's a little teaser....










Hertz Mille ML280.

Initial impression: Verrrrrry nice!!!!!!!! Full review coming soon!

Special thanks to Bodegabay for granting me the opportunity to hear these and review them. More coming shortly! (busy weekend it was!)


----------



## npdang

Definitely with Rainbow plats ease of use is a big plus. Keep in mind I have been listening to the non-chambered version, and it's quite impressive. However, I don't feel that ultimately it matches the performance of some of the drivers here when fully optimized. The top end does run out a bit early, as well as the bottom end and distortion performance is middle of the pack. But for 99% of the people out there who just want a tweeter that sounds good without fiddling too much and their ear isn't the most demanding (especially during complex passages at high output) this is a damn fine tweeter.


----------



## shinjohn

Bump!

Hertz Mille ML 280 added to the review. Special thanks again to Vu (BodegaBay) for letting me audition these tweeters. Hope you enjoy, and comments, questions, etc... are always welcome. Sorry for the delay in getting this posted. I'm trying to catch up on reviews this weekend!


----------



## shinjohn

Coming soon....

Peerless HDS 810921 & Max Fidelity MFDT30NEO Silk

Special thanks to Walt (WLDock) for sending the Max Fi's my way for a little listening session!!! Walt, I'll probably be sending them back sometime this week!


----------



## WLDock

No problem...Will be glad to hear your thoughts..


----------



## BlackLac

man, very impressive list of tweeters. sure this will help alot of people. anxious to hear how the max fi stacks up too. i got pairs of the Alpine/Vifa XT19, Seas Neo Alum., and Max Fi, and I'm sure I'll be going with the Max Fi after my own listening time, but anxious anyways!


----------



## shinjohn

OK gang, I've added the Max Fi as well as the now imfamous Peerless HDS 810921 to the review!!!

To be honest with everyone, as the list grows longer, I feel that my rankings on overall subjective SQ and value are less and less meaningful, since:
a) My preference may not be yours
b) My rankings would definitely change depending on the application: 2-way vs. 3-way, etc..

There's alot of variability in those rankings and they are subject to change without notice!   (in other words, don't put alot of weight into that ranking!)

As always, enjoy, and questions comments, etc.. are always welcome.


----------



## WLDock

Thanks for the review! And as far as:


shinjohn said:


> Max Fi went through the trouble of providing this mounting hardware, but they provided two flush mount options, instead of a flush and a surface mount option.


If you unscrew the spring clips off the cup, the assembly will work as a surface mount...hence the two screw holes as well as the two large wire holes in the bottom. It would be a pretty big assembly but it will work as a swivel mount surface cup.


----------



## azngotskills

How would you compare the OWI vs HDS in a 3-way setup? You have "ranked" them #1 and #2 in your subjective listening 

BTW: Have you heard the BG Neo3 yet?


----------



## shinjohn

WLDock said:


> Thanks for the review! And as far as:
> 
> If you unscrew the spring clips off the cup, the assembly will work as a surface mount...hence the two screw holes as well as the two large wire holes in the bottom. It would be a pretty big assembly but it will work as a swivel mount surface cup.


True that! I'll correct that in my review with a note.
And as you said though..... BIG! 



azngotskills said:


> How would you compare the OWI vs HDS in a 3-way setup? You have "ranked" them #1 and #2 in your subjective listening
> 
> BTW: Have you heard the BG Neo3 yet?


Personally, I like the sound of the Hiquphons over the HDS overall, due to their combination of dispersion/air/etc... and balance. In a three way, the OWI would probably make more sense to me, but it really depends on the sound you are after. My preference here is based on the fact that I think the Hiqs are lighter and more lively on the top, and I assume people going to a 3-way are more looking for that type of sound.

Having said that, the sound of the two tweeters is quite different. I actually think that the HDS has a slightly cleaner overall presentation. Given that, I think if you are looking for more "accurate" sound reproduction and lack of coloration, the HDS would probably be a better choice....

And now some commentary.....
Speaker selection to me then, is about matching performance with a person's expectations. Everyone has a different idea of what they are looking for. I say this because (sticking my neck out now ) I think the majority of car-audio-enthusiastic folks would find a completely low distortion, tonally balanced (flat) system to be somewhat boring sounding. (should I put on my nomex suit? )

p.s.- I have not heard the BG Neo 3, but would be glad to write a review if someone wants to send me a pair to audition. I've got enough tweeters at home now; I don't need to buy anymore! LOL.


----------



## POLKAT

Did you get a chance to hear how the HDS were off-axis?


----------



## shinjohn

POLKAT said:


> Did you get a chance to hear how the HDS were off-axis?


Sorry for the late response. I found the HDS to be pretty good (subjectively) off axis. Download the spec sheet from Madisound as it shows 30 and 60 degrees off axis plots.


----------



## quality_sound

WLDock said:


>


Am I the only one that thinks this is the tweeter ID uses in their comp sets? I swear it even has the same mounting options, except for that one ring with the 3 holes in it.


----------



## kappa546

looks like it but it's not the same.


----------



## WLDock

quality_sound said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this is the tweeter ID uses in their comp sets? I swear it even has the same mounting options, except for that one ring with the 3 holes in it.


Yeah, I think the cups are the same...But, I was told that the cones are different. I guess the ID tweet has a coating.

I think I did read that the Max Fi's are the same tweets that MPYRE AUDIO 
sells as their model 10T and in the 652C comp set.
http://www.mpyreaudio.com/products.htm


----------



## quality_sound

interesting since everything about them looks the same. i know that means squat especially with a tweeter but it was interesting to me.


----------



## npdang

Completely different sounding and the dome coating is much different. The ID's are darker sounding, less top end dispersion.


----------



## less

What a great offering here people. If this isn't stickied, I need to post here just to bump this up. I am looking at upgrading from my CAL26VOF (soft) to the CAL27s and found a lot of useful information here. I truly wish the CAL26 was included in the reviews to get a better feel, but hey... you can't have everything your way!

So far, I have pbeen very pleased with my Profi Kicks and tweeters... they are smooth and easy to listen to in most circumstances, but I am always looking for a step better, like most of us out there. 

Anyone have a thought on the value of the Cal27 tweeters - used for 6+ months at $300 a good value? I wish I could figure out a way to use a large format tweeter in a high visibiliity location off of my a-pillars, but I am just not that brave yet. The Hiquphon raves really make me want to try a pair for a while!

Thanks to the contributors !

Less


----------



## shinjohn

Quick update....
I must say that I'm growing even more fond of the Peerless HDS tweeter. Now that I've got my car rewired (9861/H701/C701/8 channels of amplification) I have been evaluating components more in-car. Placed in kicks with a suitable door mid/bass, these are phenomenal tweeters. I would definitely recommend these EXTREMELY highly for a 2-way active front, regardless of price (and they are an awesome value, BTW). Just thought I'd add that.

BTW, in my test session, I paired them with the Pioneer PRS mids and IMO, that combo is quite a winner. The PRS mid is seriously good. With a little more listening time with the mid, I'm sold. They far exceeded my expectations on clarity. The PRS tweeter on the other hand, I am less and less enthusiastic about over time.

Just a quick update. More to come soon.


----------



## mvw2

Wow, how'd I miss this thread. I think this is the first time I've seen this one, lol.

First, a big WOW for the shear number of tweeters you demoed and reviewd. That's pretty comprehensive.

Second, with the couple in the review that I've used, Alpine F#1(Scan D2904/6000) and Alpine Type-X(Vifa XT19), I do agree very much with your impressions. I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said.


----------



## shinjohn

less said:


> I truly wish the CAL26 was included in the reviews to get a better feel, but hey... you can't have everything your way!


Someone send me a pair and I'll be glad to give them a listen.  

BTW, I have heard the Cal 26 Titans in Peter's (alphakenny1's) car, but would need more time listening to really give them a fair shake. Maybe after this weekend I'll have spent more time with them.

I'd love to do a more in-depth review of the Rainbow line of tweeters, however their relatively high cost makes it prohibitive for me (and most others) to do a head to head comparison....

On the other hand, at the rate Peter goes through tweeters, I may end up getting to hear the entire Rainbow lineup in his car over time.  



mvw2 said:


> Wow, how'd I miss this thread. I think this is the first time I've seen this one, lol.
> 
> First, a big WOW for the shear number of tweeters you demoed and reviewd. That's pretty comprehensive.
> 
> Second, with the couple in the review that I've used, Alpine F#1(Scan D2904/6000) and Alpine Type-X(Vifa XT19), I do agree very much with your impressions. I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said.


Good to hear some more confirmations. I try to describe the "flavors" and differences as best as I can. Lots of great speakers out there; it's just tough to find the one that you like without some point of reference.


----------



## alphakenny1

shinjohn said:


> Someone send me a pair and I'll be glad to give them a listen.
> 
> BTW, I have heard the Cal 26 Titans in Peter's (alphakenny1's) car, but would need more time listening to really give them a fair shake. Maybe after this weekend I'll have spent more time with them.
> 
> I'd love to do a more in-depth review of the Rainbow line of tweeters, however their relatively high cost makes it prohibitive for me (and most others) to do a head to head comparison....
> 
> On the other hand, at the rate Peter goes through tweeters, I may end up getting to hear the entire Rainbow lineup in his car over time.


hey hey, calm down  . 

i dont think you've heard the titans yet. i just installed them probably 3-4 weeks ago. i think only steve has heard it in my car. also i think i've found some tweeters that meet all of my criteria. the only tweeter i think i could swap out (in my price range) is the new lotus tweets but still those are pretty expensive. hopefully i'll be able to keep these for a good while. you may not believe me but i want to settle down on a system for a while  .


----------



## PTB

Hello,
I am involved the elettromedia USA. based on the feedback regarding the cost of the Mille tweets, I thought some of you would like to know that the one of the reasons the Milles are so expensive, is the chamber is Milled. Also, we have another tweeter in our space line that's been very well received that retail for $199 Maybe, we should get a set out the the guy that did the test.

Anyway, thanks for the great review. 

Phil


----------



## shinjohn

PTB said:


> Hello,
> I am involved the elettromedia USA. based on the feedback regarding the cost of the Mille tweets, I thought some of you would like to know that the one of the reasons the Milles are so expensive, is the chamber is Milled. Also, we have another tweeter in our space line that's been very well received that retail for $199 Maybe, we should get a set out the the guy that did the test.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the great review.
> 
> Phil


Hi, and welcome to diymobileaudio.com!

Thanks for the feedback, and further input about the ML 280s. Yes, it was clear based on the construction of the tweeters that they are expensive due much in part to the machining required to manufacture the casing/chamber. This also provides a high quality look and finish to the product.

I am responsible for the review of all the tweeters in this thread, and would be happy to listen to and review other Elettromedia products. Please feel free to contact me directly via PM or email through this website if you are interested.

Also, note that I am an individual who is simply doing this as a hobby, in an effort to try to benefit the great DIY community we have here. This website's admin (user: npdang) also reviews products, and takes the evaluation process several steps further by taking objective measurement data to provide more comparative data. Please feel free to contact him for further inquiry on this website and his equipment review/evaluation process.


----------



## shinjohn

Just a teaser. Detailed subjective review coming soon for these beauties:


























Special thanks to Gabriel (Se7en) for loaning me these tweeters and allowing me the opportunity to audition them!


----------



## JAG

Shinjohn .... You heard the Cal 26 silks in my car also .... Of course , I don't know if that is enough for you to be able to properly evaluate them however ...


----------



## shinjohn

AVI said:


> Shinjohn .... You heard the Cal 26 silks in my car also .... Of course , I don't know if that is enough for you to be able to properly evaluate them however ...


I got a pretty good idea, but we'll have to take longer time to listen more carefully next time we get together.


----------



## 3.5max6spd

Nice. Dont forget to get butt naked and turn off the lights for this one  


j/k

Looking forward to your findings. This thread keeps getting bigger and better.


----------



## shinjohn

3.5max6spd said:


> Nice. Dont forget to get butt naked and turn off the lights for this one
> 
> 
> j/k
> 
> Looking forward to your findings. This thread keeps getting bigger and better.


You guys crack me up. 

Yeah, as if my wife doesn't already think I'm crazy as it is.....
I could see her come in to the room, and turn the light on......


----------



## BodegaBay

What the heck? So that's what you did with the tweeters i sent you!


----------



## 3.5max6spd

Any listening time on those yet?


----------



## shinjohn

3.5max6spd said:


> Any listening time on those yet?


Thanks for the reminder. Actually, quite alot of listening, both in home and in car! 

I've got to send the review to N so he can add it to my first post; the edit feature has been disabled on the forums for us regular members. But the bottleneck is still me sending the review. 

The short of it is that the Plat is my new favorite compact dome! It's by no means perfect, but quite a standout in many ways. It has a surprisingly full sound, and probably the easiest tweeter to listen to without fatigue. Detailed enough to be convincing, and never abrasive in any way. Probably the single easiest tweeter I've ever tried to integrate in a mobile environment (huge points for ease of use/tuning). That's the general flavor of my review; I'll expound and compare more very shortly. 

Thanks for your patience!


----------



## shinjohn

BodegaBay said:


> What the heck? So that's what you did with the tweeters i sent you!


You'll never know. Buwahhh....


----------



## Locke

shinjohn said:


> Thanks for the reminder. Actually, quite alot of listening, both in home and in car!
> 
> I've got to send the review to N so he can add it to my first post; the edit feature has been disabled on the forums for us regular members. But the bottleneck is still me sending the review.
> 
> The short of it is that the Plat is my new favorite compact dome! It's by no means perfect, but quite a standout in many ways. It has a surprisingly full sound, and probably the easiest tweeter to listen to without fatigue. Detailed enough to be convincing, and never abrasive in any way. Probably the single easiest tweeter I've ever tried to integrate in a mobile environment (huge points for ease of use/tuning). That's the general flavor of my review; I'll expound and compare more very shortly.
> 
> Thanks for your patience!



please do and thx for the reviews good reading


----------



## shinjohn

Bump!

Thanks to npdang, my Rainbow CAL 28 Platinum review has been added to the first page. That first page is SOOOOO NOT dialup friendly. Sorry Chad! 

Enjoy, and any questions/comments are always welcome! Also be sure to check out npdang's reviews on the Rainbows and others. A couple of notable threads with data:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13600
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10656
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13111

p.s.- ignore the last line of the review; it was referring originally to the HDS, and just got shifted down when edited....


----------



## 3.5max6spd

Man I gotta say. Threads like this, are the reason why this forum is THE place to be. You cannot get this level of fedback and data on such wide range of products ANYWHERE!

Kudos to DIYMA!


----------



## Se7en

Awesome review Shinjohn!


----------



## SteveLPfreak

3.5max6spd said:


> Man I gotta say. Threads like this, are the reason why this forum is THE place to be. You cannot get this level of fedback and data on such wide range of products ANYWHERE!
> 
> Kudos to DIYMA!


Amen. Thanks to Shinjohn and the others for the great reviews. I have found them to be very accurate to my own experiences with some of the tested tweets.


----------



## harrier

Thanks for the great review.
I'm waiting for other great tweeters like Scans D3004/660000 & Morel Picolo to be added to this review!


----------



## shinjohn

Hey Guys,
Thanks, and x2 on the Kudos to DIYMA! IMO, it's really the only place you can find extensive technical information, driver test data, and equipment reviews in one place!

Now that I'm done listening to the Rainbows, I'll have to figure out what's next on the review agenda. If anyone has some equipment they'd like to offer up, feel free to send me a PM.


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## Se7en

Even though this isn't in any way directly tied to the review itself, I thought I would mention that Shinjohn was cool enough to drive 45 minutes (each way) to my home just to return my tweeters!

He also brought along some of his reference cds and while he was here he gave me some pointers on my home system too.

This is an awesome guy here folks! 

Thanks again Shinjohn!


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## shinjohn

Se7en said:


> Even though this isn't in any way directly tied to the review itself, I thought I would mention that Shinjohn was cool enough to drive 45 minutes (each way) to my home just to return my tweeters!
> 
> He also brought along some of his reference cds and while he was here he gave me some pointers on my home system too.
> 
> This is an awesome guy here folks!
> 
> Thanks again Shinjohn!


Gabe,
Had a great time hanging out Sat. My first experience with a home audio room correction processor; that was really fun! It makes me wonder when somebody here is going to try to install one of those in a car.  

Thanks, and see you soon!


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## Whiterabbit

you havent seen that feature of my EQ?


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## Se7en

shinjohn said:


> Gabe,
> Had a great time hanging out Sat. My first experience with a home audio room correction processor; that was really fun! It makes me wonder when somebody here is going to try to install one of those in a car.
> 
> Thanks, and see you soon!


There a couple of guys using a 12v converted DEQX system (cannot remember which forum) which is very similar to the Tact although using a different approach.

Whiterabbit,

Hopefully I will get a chance to hear your system at the BBQ???

-gabe


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## Rbsarve

ShinJohn, I´ve been on the internet for over a decade in various internet forums and have myself made well over 10000 posts. However of all I've come across this is my favourite one. 

Honest opinions over a breath of drivers unseen anywhere else.

The converted (by JK Labs) DEQX are usually run by the "Buwalda Boys" or Team Hybrids as they like to call themsefes. I want one of those eqs. Badly.


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## iieee82

anyone had audit Morel supremo picollo before..can anyone tell me any budget raw tweeters which sounds similar to it..cos no $$ for picollo at the moment


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## notacop

Shinjohn: You seem to be the person I need to get ahold of. I am in the market for a new 2 way setup and it appears that you have listened to a massive amount of tweeters. I hope you don't mind me bumping and oldie but goodie 


I am working with a 2007 Honda Civic sedan, that has small windows near the front sail panels that I have filled in with pods to house tweeters. I am fairly confident that I can fit a large format tweeter in there.


Here are a couple pics:





















I will have around 120x4 @ 4 ohm available for the system, which should be plenty for just about any tweeter out there. 
I will have a h701 to handle all the processing I need. 


After a few hours of research I have narrowed my midbass choices down to the ER18RNX or the CA185RNX and if I can swing the $$$ the W18NX.


For tweeters I have it narrowed down to the 27TBFC/G or if I can swing the $$$ the Hiquphon OWII's (the OEM ones from miniscus almost make it into my budget).


Generally I prefer a tweeter that is "in your face", bright and detailed; without being harsh and fatiguing. I am not one for a laid back tweeter. I currently am running the DLS Iridium's passive off 300+ watts. The tweeter is not quite what I am looking for, a bit mellow for my tastes. In the past I have used the dayton ND20 and I liked it, but had to EQ down a bit over 17k due to harshness. I liked the sound of the LPG26na's but they needed a lot of tweaking to get them where I wanted them, and even then they were pretty fatiguing. Also of importance to me is how forgiving they might be on poor recordings as I do listen to a lot of Sirius and iPod.


I think optimally I would want the W18NX and the Hiquphons, but I think I could be perfectly happy with the ER18RNX with the 27TBFC/G's (and I would end up with less 'splainin to do to the wife).

What would you recommend considering the relatively close placement and off axis position, and goals I am trying to accomplish?

Thanks a bunch!


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## Boostedrex

Good to see you posting over here Garrett. Out of curiosity, why are you pulling the DLS components out of the Civic?

Zach


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## notacop

Boostedrex said:


> Good to see you posting over here Garrett. Out of curiosity, why are you pulling the DLS components out of the Civic?
> 
> Zach




I miss the adjustability of a DIY setup. Also, I have been chasing down an electrical noise for the past few months and I have run out of things to try, so I am going to throw in a h701 and see if getting rid of the RCA's running from HU to amp fixes it. I figure since I will have a H701 why not go active.


Coming from a 3 way active front stage to a 2 way passive was a bit of a system shock.


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## Boostedrex

Fair enough. I have heard the Seas tweets you're looking at and they were really nice. I haven't heard the Hiquphons though.


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## shinjohn

Hey notacop,
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Been pretty busy these days with a new little one that just arrived last week.  (my 3rd was born last Thurs - a boy!)

In any event, I'll give you a couple of my thoughts, but please keep in mind that I am by no means an expert, and have never even sat in a latest gen Civic, so I can't comment at all about vehicle and/or integration issues you may face, which could trump all that I talk about here...



notacop said:


> After a few hours of research I have narrowed my midbass choices down to the ER18RNX or the CA185RNX and if I can swing the $$$ the W18NX.


The Seas paper cones are a great choice; I've had a very positive experience with them, however YMMV. IMHO, I really like the Nextel cone; these are truly amazing drivers, but to be fair, I have not played with or even seen a Seas Reed cone driver. 



> For tweeters I have it narrowed down to the 27TBFC/G or if I can swing the $$$ the Hiquphon OWII's (the OEM ones from miniscus almost make it into my budget).


You know what, you're choices couldn't be more different. One is small, plays low, and has (IMO) a smooth, mellow sound. The other is large, making it hard to place (but with your install, not an issue) with an extended top end, excellent dispersion, but does not play very low. Obviously if you've read my review, I personally would greatly prefer the Hiq OWII.



> Generally I prefer a tweeter that is "in your face", bright and detailed; without being harsh and fatiguing. I am not one for a laid back tweeter. I currently am running the DLS Iridium's passive off 300+ watts. The tweeter is not quite what I am looking for, a bit mellow for my tastes. In the past I have used the dayton ND20 and I liked it, but had to EQ down a bit over 17k due to harshness. I liked the sound of the LPG26na's but they needed a lot of tweaking to get them where I wanted them, and even then they were pretty fatiguing. Also of importance to me is how forgiving they might be on poor recordings as I do listen to a lot of Sirius and iPod.


Although I know there are some that have found the Seas Neos to be bright, even to the point of being harsh, my experience is the opposite. They are very clean and tidy sounding, and not fatiguing. Based on what your preferences are though, I doubt they would suit your tastes. It sounds like you want alot of detail and sparkle in your tweet, yet forgiving in my mind is exactly the opposite of that. So, IMO, you'll get to one goal, and will have to live with the consequence of the other being compromised.

Reading your post, my thought would be to recommend the Seas large format (27TBFC/G) as it's an overall great performer, and may have the right amount of sparkle and shine you look for. Your space would allow for a large format, and since these are darn cheap, I'd definitely recommend you give them a try to see! And then you can decide on where to go from there.



> I think optimally I would want the W18NX and the Hiquphons, but I think I could be perfectly happy with the ER18RNX with the 27TBFC/G's (and I would end up with less 'splainin to do to the wife).
> 
> What would you recommend considering the relatively close placement and off axis position, and goals I am trying to accomplish?
> 
> Thanks a bunch!


Obviously, out of your choices, my strong preference is for the more expensive option. But before you do anything, check door fit because my experience with Hondas over the years is that space is always at a premium, esp. mounting depth. Good Luck.


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## notacop

Thanks for all the input. 


Again, congrats on your new addition.



On my doorstep today are the fruits of my research.


I ended up going with the ER18RNX drivers. All the reviews I have read have put them above the CA18RNX, and I just could not justify the W18NX.


Now as far as tweeters....


While I _can_ fit a large format tweeter, my current setup is for a compact tweeter (the dls nobelium tweet is what is in there now), and it is a hell of a lot easier to try out a compact and end up going to a large format than it is to try a large format and go back to a compact.


I was really leaning towards the large format SEAS metal dome, but I ended up ordering the aluminum neo's.


I have had the LPG 26na's in the past and was fairly pleased with those. If the neos do not fit my goals I can order up a pair of the large format SEAS and cut out the baffles to fit. If that does not work, the OWII's should nearly drop in from there.


The big benefit I have found on DIY gear is that you can sell it for about 80% of NIB cost, so it is not a huge loss if you decide to switch around a bit.


It might be a while before I can get my new gear installed (also on the front porch was the h701). I have to decide if I want to swap out the front stage and add the h701 or if I want to redo my trunk/amp rack and go IB at the same time (wife approval for new sub stage is low).


Thanks for the feedback, it seems to indicate about what I was thinking. I will definitely keep you posted on the outcome.


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## Boostedrex

A new sub stage too Garrett? Are you moving away from the 13Av.2? I'm glad to hear that you made your decision. Make sure you post up a thread/install thread/review of what you think of all your new gear.

Zach


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## notacop

Boostedrex said:


> A new sub stage too Garrett? Are you moving away from the 13Av.2? I'm glad to hear that you made your decision. Make sure you post up a thread/install thread/review of what you think of all your new gear.
> 
> Zach


Yeah, thinking of going with a pair of 15's IB. I really like the low end of the Av.2, but I have a baby due in July and I need to reclaim some trunk space for strollers and such.


Here is what my trunk looks like now:











That is not an IB setup currently but rather a wedge shaped sealed box. Combined with my amp rack that flushes the amp behind the flip down seats, I lost about 10" of depth at the bottom and about 4" of depth at the top. Not bad, but that huge 11" deep motor sticking into the trunk will have to go.


I figure I can reduce my loss in the trunk to about 6" overall by going IB and hanging the amp + h701 + sirius tuner under the rear deck.


Just have to decide with subs to go with. I am leaning towards the 16ov.2's simply because I have heard very good things about them IB, they will work well off the 600 (rated, 900 actual) watts I have available, and I can pick up a pair for under $400.


Have not decided 100% yet though.


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## Oliver

Rbsarve said:


> Awaiting the completion of this eagerly.
> 
> On the mids, you could make a couple of baffle adapter plates that goes into the speaker hole of the two-way that you are using.
> 
> I´ve only had a short listening to the Legatia 3 and found it to be very pleasing and have a warm/robust timbre. Quite likeable, and quite different character from the TG9.


Legatia similar to ??


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## Steak

ANy chance you can review the polk sr6500 tweeter??

How does it compare to other ring rads, specifically the alpine xt19 and vifa 25??

Thanks!


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## shinjohn

Steak said:


> ANy chance you can review the polk sr6500 tweeter??
> 
> How does it compare to other ring rads, specifically the alpine xt19 and vifa 25??
> 
> Thanks!


I have not had a chance to hear this tweeter so cannot give any opinions or comparisons.

I am open to listening to it and giving a review, if someone wants to send me one (or a pair) to listen to.


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## cvjoint

shinjohn said:


> I have not had a chance to hear this tweeter so cannot give any opinions or comparisons.
> 
> I am open to listening to it and giving a review, if someone wants to send me one (or a pair) to listen to.


Maybe Marv?


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## joms

Hope the Morel Supremo Picollos can be added to this review one of these days....


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## sam3535

joms said:


> Hope the Morel Supremo Picollos can be added to this review one of these days....


Probably not.


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## winegamd

subbed


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## Darth SQ

Subscribed (lol) and bumped for all to see this very informative thread from the past. 
Lots of treasures on DIYMA if you look for them. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Swaglife81

This is a really old thread but very relevant especially for those who can't decide on a tweeter. Pictures still work which is like winning a lottery since this is over 10 years old. Just comes to show you these diy tweeters 10 years later are still performers. With companies still Manufacturing them in different variants.


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## sagi145

hello
i want to know what do you think about the DLS RC50 wide bend tweeter?
thank you


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