# Amp gurus, PRS-D800?



## rton20s

I'd like to get some feedback on the Pioneer PRS-D800 (same or very similar to PRS-D700 in Japan if I am not mistaken). I'm curious to know what people far more knowledgeable than myself think (daveds50, envisionelec, etc). I found this amp quite interesting and quite a departure from what I would consider "the norm" these days. I know it is pretty new, very people have used one, no one has reviewed one and true gut shots aren't out there yet. I posted some links and images below, and I'd love to get some impressions. 

How is the quality of the selected components? 

How do you think these will perform / sound? 

If you were to compare these in quality to another brand/line who would it be (save for crossover, of course)? 

Do you think they're worth MSRP? Street price?

Would you consider running one or multiple of these yourself if you had external processing? 

PRS-D800

PRS-D700 (Japan)


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## [email protected]

There are acouple of more recent threads where these have been talked about.


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## rton20s

Yeah, I've done the requisite searches, and read through every single post relative to the PRS-D800 on DIYMA. Heck, one of the threads was my own, and I have posted to a lot of the other threads regarding this amp. 

I'm more interested in what some of the amp "experts" have to say about this little 2 channel amp. (Hence the post in this particular sub-forum.) Pioneer has made some claims (more vague in the US than the Japanese version, I would think) regarding quality and component selection, and I'd like to know if they are being reasonably accurate in their statements. Is this the amp PRS / Stage 4 equivalent to the DEH-80PRS / DEX-P99RS? 

I'm considering making the leap of faith to pick up a few of these, but it would mean forsaking a pretty well regarded brand/amp in the process. Not to mention the wife already questioning me considering making the switch before ever installing "a really nice amp."


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## daveds50

well... since i was mentioned... 

i have repaired exactly one of the 800's. i have more experience with the other class D Pioneers though, like the GM-D9500F, which uses a somewhat similar circuit and parts. 

i did not get to spend much time with the 800 though, as the owner was in a rush to get it back. but from what i could see with my limited play time, i like it for a D full range. one of the better ones out there. best of all, i like the size for the performance. 

all i can say though, is that anyone who is going to repair these, it is mandatory to have up to par surface mount soldering equipment. the hacks out there wont be able to fix them. 

curious... what amp/brand are you bypassing for one of these ?


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## rton20s

Thanks for responding daveds50. I was hoping this thread wouldn't get overlooked. If you don't mind me asking, how significant was the repair and do you see it being a common issue? 

I'm actually kind of glad you asked about the other amp. I didn't want to duplicate a bunch of information from my other thread, but I can just list the specifics. 

I am considering using three of the PRS-D800s (125w x 4 + 300x1) to power a pair of HAT Imagine 161-2s active and a single I10SW for my sub stage. This would be in lieu of the Arc Audio KS900.6 (60w x 4 + 550w x 1) I already have in my possession. 

If you don't want to muddy up this thread with my specific issues, my thread can be found here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...scussion/134440-should-i-make-amp-switch.html


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## jstoner22

PRS-A900 and PRS-D1200SPL are the amps meant to coincide with the DEX-P99RS

With my experience of Pioneer products I wouldn't hestitate with taking a chance on any of their PRS lineup.


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## daveds50

rton20s said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how significant was the repair and do you see it being a common issue?


 many of the class D full range amps are going to surface mount FET's, like the International Rectifier DirectFet, that 6 or 8 of them will fit on your fingernail. is it a significant repair ? not for me. i have thousands invested in surface mount equipment. for the guy fixing amps with a regular soldering iron station, it is impossible. 
as far as common issue... yes, if you are a bonehead and bridge the amp and run a 2 ohm load load, then yes, that will be a common issue. :laugh: < true story ! but then again, that goes for any amp that is only 4 ohm stable bridged. 
as far as common issues, i have only worked on one. they are too new for me to have seen a lot of them, and determined if they have any common issue. 



rton20s said:


> I am considering using three of the PRS-D800s (125w x 4 + 300x1) to power a pair of HAT Imagine 161-2s active and a single I10SW for my sub stage. This would be in lieu of the Arc Audio KS900.6 (60w x 4 + 550w x 1) I already have in my possession.


 if you already have the ARC, try it. may be ideal for what you need, but wont know till you try it.


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## rton20s

Thanks daveds50. I'll probably give the Arc a shot for now. I'm already set up for it, but I was really curious about the Pioneers.


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## JoeHemi57

I would run the Arc or 2 of the pioneers, i can't see purchasing another amp just to run a set of tweets. If it was some super high end set maybe but they are Imagines i would just stick to passive before i ran another amp for tweeters.


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## metanium

Sonic Electronix has these at $149 plus Free shipping! Very interesting.

Pioneer PRS-D800 300W RMS 2-Channel Class FD Car Amplifier


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## rton20s

JoeHemi57 said:


> I would run the Arc or 2 of the pioneers, i can't see purchasing another amp just to run a set of tweets. If it was some super high end set maybe but they are Imagines i would just stick to passive before i ran another amp for tweeters.


I've got a head unit capable of going active and that is what I plan on doing. Whether that means running the Arc as a 5 channel or switching over to three of the Pioneers is what was in question for me. It is more a question of quality and where I would benefit from more head room the most. Head room on the front stage with the Pioneers vs sub stage with the Arc.


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## JoeHemi57

I see, how much power do the tweeters need would they be able to run off the deck by any chance?


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## rton20s

The tweeters don't really need that much power. The mids could use a lot more than what the Arc provides without bridging. In terms of running the tweeters off of the head unit, Pioneer says that the internal amp on the HU should be disabled when you use external amplifiers. They actually stated on their FB page that you CAN NOT use network mode and a combination of RCA and speaker level output. Others on this site claim to have done it, but when asked for proof went silent. Beyond that, it has been recommended by a lot of people I respect to not try to power the tweeters off of the HU, even if they don't need a lot of power.


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## BFYTW

Ive been very interested in these pioneer amps as well. Especially for the price they can be had. With that being said, over the last month i have auditioned a few amps in my truck. (Ill spare u details unless u really wanna know the whole spill) but the last amp installed was a KS300.4 two days ago. It stays. Now i want some of the SE Arcs.. the point being, is use the arc. I dont think your gonna be disappointed.


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## jpeezy

These amps do not have internal xovers and I believe they were meant to go along with the deh-80 prs head unit that has built in eq and xover,that would be a nice setup,deh 80prs and three of these amps,horns, mid bass,and subsimple great sound.


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## rton20s

Yep, exactly the application I would be using it in. And the reason I created the thread in the first place.


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## JAX

Dave , what is the difference in these new D800's and the prs FD amps I had from couple years ago or so? is it any real difference other than removal of crossover and size? 

just curious. I am running Zeff designed Clarions now. they are decent and clean so were the prs pioneers I had.

these d800's look good size wise. wonder if they will have any heat issues being so compact.


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## takeabao

Love the independent Left- & Right- side gain adjustment on these amps!!

Very uncommon to see that these days.
3 of these + the new 80PRS and you have a solid start (source, amplification, tuning-wise,, etc.) for a competition-competitive system.


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## rton20s

Exactly why I was considering making the switch from my KS900.6. More power for my front stage, but less for my sub stage. I do have independent gain controls on the Arc unit though, so that is one aspect that has kept me from switching.


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## paneristi

Overall, this amp works. I have (3) of these PRS-D800 amplifiers. I've only had one issue.. maybe someone with more experience can explain what happened...

I have (1) bridged for my subwoofer (JL 10W3V3-4), (1) for my mids, and (1) for my tweeters. (Herts HSK165XL Components)

My installed did not switch the amp circuit from 1 channel to 2 channel for my tweeters. I figured this out when my right channel tweeter had an awful alternator whine. (set on 1 channel bridged @ 300 watts rms)

I switch the amp back to 2 channel @ 125 Watts 4 Ohms. The volume of my right channel tweeter was very low... as if it was muted by 20db. The alternator whine was still there so my installer used a noise filter. 

I sent my amp for warranty exchange and now im waiting for my new replacement amp to see if I still get the alternator whine/muted right channel. Anyone experience one channel not working before? 

I thought maybe the circuit was broken and it was stuck on the 1 channel mode but when i bridged the amp for my subwoofer to test, I was not getting the full power like my other amplifier.


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## rton20s

Something about this just doesn't make sense. The switch on the bottom of the amp does not "bridge" the amp. The switch determines whether the amp uses a single RCA cable for signal or a pair of RCA cables for signal. By leaving the switch in the "1 CH" position the signal coming from the RCA input "A" would be sent to both speaker output "A" and "B." 

That being said, so long as the tweeters were wired correctly (one to channel A +/- and one to channel B +/-) both tweeters should still have been seeing the "correct" power. They shouldn't have seen the bridged power from the amp at all. 

That leaves me with two questions:

1. What were your crossovers set at (I'm assuming you're using the P99 from your sig)? 

If you don't cross your tweeters at a safe frequency, that could kill a tweeter pretty quickly. 

2. How were your gains set, and were they similar between A and B? 

"125 watts" is a whole lot of power to be sending a tweeter. I'd hope that the gains were pretty well buried toward the 6.5v side. 

All that being said, it still sound like you've got an issue with the amp given your test with the subwoofer. It could be something with the amp its self, and it also could have been an installer issue. Definitely report back in when you get your amp back from warranty.


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## tyroneshoes

Your arc is perfect and a better amp IMO. All in one chassis. You wont hear much difference in the power from one to another. The difference from like 75 watts and 125 watts is hardly audible. The sub is the one that needs power and the arc is good there.


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## paneristi

That is an interesting point. When the amp is bridged, only CH "A" gain adjusts the volume. However, the gain on CH "B" did not make any audible difference after 'switching' to 2CH mode. 

After reseting the a/t, e/q, etc., CH "A" level was set to -19db to match the faulty CH "B". 

The tweeter is definitely fine because the installer tested the right side tweeter on Channel "A" and it sounded fine. The tweeters are rated at 180 watt which I assumed at 90 RMS, the 125watt amp would be safe. My gains for all 3 amps are near 4.5V (to match the output of the P99RS, correct me if this is wrong) At 6.5V, the volume is too low. 

Sub 20hz-100hz, Mids 160hz-2.5k, High 4k-16k
Slopes from 12db-24db, havent figured out what sounds best yet.
All Phase set positive unless sub is at 12db slope.





rton20s said:


> Something about this just doesn't make sense. The switch on the bottom of the amp does not "bridge" the amp. The switch determines whether the amp uses a single RCA cable for signal or a pair of RCA cables for signal. By leaving the switch in the "1 CH" position the signal coming from the RCA input "A" would be sent to both speaker output "A" and "B."
> 
> That being said, so long as the tweeters were wired correctly (one to channel A +/- and one to channel B +/-) both tweeters should still have been seeing the "correct" power. They shouldn't have seen the bridged power from the amp at all.
> 
> 
> 
> That leaves me with two questions:
> 
> 1. What were your crossovers set at (I'm assuming you're using the P99 from your sig)?
> 
> If you don't cross your tweeters at a safe frequency, that could kill a tweeter pretty quickly.
> 
> 2. How were your gains set, and were they similar between A and B?
> 
> "125 watts" is a whole lot of power to be sending a tweeter. I'd hope that the gains were pretty well buried toward the 6.5v side.
> 
> All that being said, it still sound like you've got an issue with the amp given your test with the subwoofer. It could be something with the amp its self, and it also could have been an installer issue. Definitely report back in when you get your amp back from warranty.


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## paneristi

Just to stay on topic,

I can't comment on the quality of the selected components because I'm new to car audio.

From my experience, they work well if your components match the RMS ratings.

I think the sound is objective because the most important part is for this amp is the source and external crossover/ digital sound processors. 

This amp is pretty basic so it's hard to compare to other manufacturers. 

I would not pay MSRP for these.. I actually found them for the same price stated above in another post. Purchased 3 @ $149.99 

My only concern is the reliability since I've had an issue with one of mine. It has been sent back for warranty exchange & I doubt they will keep me updated with what caused the problem.


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## two pixel

paneristi,

Any updates?

There is a trickle of information on these amps so all data points are helpful. Did you have a positive experience with Pioneer's customer service?

..


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## paneristi

I purchased the amplifiers from sonicelectronix and they honored their warranty. I received a replacement amplifier promptly and was very happy with their customer service. 

However, I am not sure if my amplifier is completely new or refurbished. I noticed that the replacement box I received was not sticker sealed like the other amplifiers I received.

They are all working properly now. I just need to set the gains with DDM or Oscilloscope.


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## OldSchoolAudioandVideo

paneristi said:


> Overall, this amp works. I have (3) of these PRS-D800 amplifiers. I've only had one issue.. maybe someone with more experience can explain what happened...
> 
> I have (1) bridged for my subwoofer (JL 10W3V3-4), (1) for my mids, and (1) for my tweeters. (Herts HSK165XL Components)
> 
> My installed did not switch the amp circuit from 1 channel to 2 channel for my tweeters. I figured this out when my right channel tweeter had an awful alternator whine. (set on 1 channel bridged @ 300 watts rms)
> 
> I switch the amp back to 2 channel @ 125 Watts 4 Ohms. The volume of my right channel tweeter was very low... as if it was muted by 20db. The alternator whine was still there so my installer used a noise filter.
> 
> I sent my amp for warranty exchange and now im waiting for my new replacement amp to see if I still get the alternator whine/muted right channel. Anyone experience one channel not working before?
> 
> I thought maybe the circuit was broken and it was stuck on the 1 channel mode but when i bridged the amp for my subwoofer to test, I was not getting the full power like my other amplifier.



This is exactly why I sold all mine.
I would think that a high end model would have balanced inputs to get rid of whine and other noise. NOPE not Pioneer.
I thought it was the 80prs I had them hooked to because of all the so called pico fuse problems on prior head unit models. Turns out, from a thread the 80prs doesnt use pico fuses. I did some tests and reconnections and It was the amps.
They are powerful lil buggers and sound clean when there is no ground noise. They have there own signature which I would call clean and neutral yet has some sort dull sound that I think is only due to Class D. They are precise and have that whisper capability but it just dont sound natural. 

Anyway. Yes. Its the amp. Mine did the same thing.
Apparently they cut corners and made it cheap. IDK. But it disgusted me to have a nice amp and no balanced inputs.


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## rton20s

OldSchoolAudioandVideo said:


> This is exactly why I sold all mine.
> I would think that a high end model would have balanced inputs to get rid of whine and other noise. NOPE not Pioneer.
> I thought it was the 80prs I had them hooked to because of all the so called pico fuse problems on prior head unit models. Turns out, from a thread the 80prs doesnt use pico fuses. I did some tests and reconnections and It was the amps.
> They are powerful lil buggers and sound clean when there is no ground noise. They have there own signature which I would call clean and neutral yet has some sort dull sound that I think is only due to Class D. They are precise and have that whisper capability but it just dont sound natural.
> 
> Anyway. Yes. Its the amp. Mine did the same thing.
> Apparently they cut corners and made it cheap. IDK. But it disgusted me to have a nice amp and no balanced inputs.


If I understand it correctly, balanced (differential?) or unbalanced (single ended?) as long as you're using the proper RCA cables noise should not be an issue. Did you ever try switching your RCAs from one type to the other? I do not have one of the amps to test and see what type is being used. It is my understanding (and I could very well be wrong) that the unbalanced, single ended design (coax) is far more common in car audio amplifiers, save for higher end equipment. 

Can we also assume that you confirmed that it was not a amplifier ground issue? What was it that you found to not be "natural" about the amp? I would think compared to most amps on the market these would have some of the least "coloration" given the minimal design of the amp.


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## OldSchoolAudioandVideo

rton20s said:


> If I understand it correctly, balanced (differential?) or unbalanced (single ended?) as long as you're using the proper RCA cables noise should not be an issue. Did you ever try switching your RCAs from one type to the other? I do not have one of the amps to test and see what type is being used. It is my understanding (and I could very well be wrong) that the unbalanced, single ended design (coax) is far more common in car audio amplifiers, save for higher end equipment.
> 
> Can we also assume that you confirmed that it was not a amplifier ground issue? What was it that you found to not be "natural" about the amp? I would think compared to most amps on the market these would have some of the least "coloration" given the minimal design of the amp.


When I say balanced I mean like what JL Audio and SOundSTream uses.
It doesnt matter if you use a cheap RCA the amp is made so the ground loops dont go into the signal.

I thought that this pioner amp would have had that. They dont.
SOmetimes no matter what you do, where you place cables, you get noise.
So this is why I prefer balanced amps.


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## rton20s

OldSchoolAudioandVideo said:


> When I say balanced I mean like what JL Audio and SOundSTream uses.
> It doesnt matter if you use a cheap RCA the amp is made so the ground loops dont go into the signal.
> 
> I thought that this pioner amp would have had that. They dont.
> SOmetimes no matter what you do, where you place cables, you get noise.
> So this is why I prefer balanced amps.


It does appear that some JL models do use the balanced-differential inputs, but not all of their amp lines do. For instance, I believe the XD200/2 does, but the JX360/2 does not. The same holds true for Soundstream, if I am not mistaken. They use the balanced-differential inputs on their Reference line, but none of their other lines. 

My understanding is that both balanced-differential and unbalanced-single ended systems work to reject noise, but in different ways. A balanced input does not mean the amp will automatically reject the noise introduced by the cables. 

It is a matter of choosing the right parts and pieces to work together. Then again, I could be completely wrong. You might want to check out this video...

Truth about RCA signal cables - YouTube


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## OldSchoolAudioandVideo

I think the lower end lines dont have balanced.

But I am positive that balanced amps take out or at least dont allow any ground loops.
Ive owned Both the JL high end amps and the SOundStream high end amps and they both have no noise

Its a big difference going from something like that to an amp you have to fight with concerning ground loops.

I think companies should offer this feature all the time.
I dont think it would cost much more to add this circuit in the amp.

There were many amps I wanted to buy but decided no way cause they were not balanced.

Thanks for that vid. Very informative.


Ive tried different cables when I had bad ground loops and 99% dont do any good.
I had luck with only one brand and they dont make um like they use too.
Twisted cables are about useless IMO. But I think I was using them wrong? IDK LOL The shielding is most useful only if its triple shielded and braided.

If I ever have noise again ll try this videos suggestion about using a certain type of cable with a certain type of amp.


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## 1998993C2S

rton20s said:


> You might want to check out this video...
> 
> Truth about RCA signal cables - YouTube


Thanks for posting the unbalanced/balanced YouTube tutorial. 
Coundn't have explained these two types of RCA terminations better myself. Great refresher.

In the broadcast world its typical to use XLR termination, always balanced.
I've never met a desk or console that wasn't balanced; Neve, Solid State Logic, Trident, Midas, Yamaha, et cetera.


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## Jsracing

I've been eyeing the Pioneer PRS-D800s since they came out. I like the look and size and performance specs seem great. If you don't mind trying them out, I'd say go with the PRS-D800s. I wouldn't get one just for the tweeters though. Try to figure out how to power the tweeters off the HU. Seeing as most tweeters are 90-95dB sensitive, give it 2W and your ears will be hurting already. It's silly how much power people use on tweeters. There's a lack of understanding of sensitivity and power requirements.

You have a nice amp already with the Arc, but part of the fun with this hobby is trying different things and if you can afford it, I'd say give the Pioneer a shot. A pair doesn't cost much relative to other high-end amps.

If you get the Pioneer, let us know your thoughts on them.


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## chromatiq

two pixel said:


> paneristi,
> 
> Any updates?
> 
> There is a trickle of information on these amps so all data points are helpful. Did you have a positive experience with Pioneer's customer service?
> 
> ..


 hi i need help calculating a slot port for my wedge box please could someone assist me my email is [email protected]


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## jimmybee1108

rton20s said:


> The tweeters don't really need that much power. The mids could use a lot more than what the Arc provides without bridging. In terms of running the tweeters off of the head unit, Pioneer says that the internal amp on the HU should be disabled when you use external amplifiers. They actually stated on their FB page that you CAN NOT use network mode and a combination of RCA and speaker level output. Others on this site claim to have done it, but when asked for proof went silent. Beyond that, it has been recommended by a lot of people I respect to not try to power the tweeters off of the HU, even if they don't need a lot of power.


The manual from my 80prs says it can be done and even says how


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## tyroneshoes

Id personally run one mono on the left hertz, one mono on the right hertz, use the passive which is a good passive and then the sub.

That set really likes the power.


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## rton20s

tyroneshoes said:


> Id personally run one mono on the left hertz, one mono on the right hertz, use the passive which is a good passive and then the sub.
> 
> That set really likes the power.



Eh... what? Was this directed toward me? If so, my system components have already changed significantly. Gone is the HAT gear. In it's place Illusion Audio C6 components and an Arc Audio Black 12. Power will be by the aforementioned KS900.6 (components) and a KS600.2 (subwoofer) that I picked up. 

So no, I won't be trying out the PRS-D800. I did pick up a GM-D8604 for the wife's car though.


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## JAX

I want to try these eventually


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## rton20s

I was tempted on the wife's car, but the deal I got on the GM-D8604 was just too good to pass up. I really wish they would develop the PRS amp line further. Offer a 4 channel and mono option to accomodate more system design options.


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## jimmybee1108

Any real review on these? Thinking one for mids, and two bridged for each sub


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## rton20s

I've not seen any yet. I really wish there were. I really like these "on paper" and visually. Honestly though, I don't have any use for them right now.


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## Tritty

I am currently running 3 of these in a 4 way active configuration. I'm using a P99 as the source, Scanspeak Illuminator D3004/602010 tweeters, SB Acoustic SB12NRXF25-4 midrange's, SB Acoustic Satori MW16P-8 mid bass's & 2 x Peerless XXLS 830452 subs (Alpine MRX-M100 for the sub stage) They are amazing little amplifiers! Sound very clean, tight and dynamic, this setup has won me quite a few SQ competitions  Highly recommend them, I don't have a build log on here but your welcome to check it out here: http://www.caraudio.com.au/forums/i...rittys-sq-excel-build-new-door-cards-pillars/


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## rton20s

Thanks for the feedback Tritty. The link didn't work for me though. 

If Pioneer had a mono subwoofer amp to match these, I probably could have been swayed to give these a shot.


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## JAX

I just picked up an older PRS-D3000SPL supposedly new and once again I am thinking about these little amps to go with it. I guess will really decide after I get the monoblock.

they do look clean on paper, just wish I knew what was different or if these incorporate some of the stage 4 tech or what.


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## rton20s

I just don't understand why they don't at least offer a single mono amp in the same line? I guess they figure the 2 channel is a do it all SQ amp? No need for more than 300w @ 4 Ohms on the sub? 

Heck, I would be happy if they would just use the same heat sink and make a mono. Something capable of 200/400/600 @ 4/2/1 Ohm respectively would even be awesome. 

I'd still like to check out a 2 channel some day.


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## JAX

rton20s said:


> I just don't understand why they don't at least offer a single mono amp in the same line? I guess they figure the 2 channel is a do it all SQ amp? No need for more than 300w @ 4 Ohms on the sub?
> 
> Heck, I would be happy if they would just use the same heat sink and make a mono. Something capable of 200/400/600 @ 4/2/1 Ohm respectively would even be awesome.
> 
> I'd still like to check out a 2 channel some day.



I guess cause the other amps take that duty. I imagine this little 2 channel will be discontinued. I am still wanting to try one as it looks to be better than the other lines 4 channel.

these look very slick while I am not that fond of the square 4 and single amp and they are also much cheaper and specs arent as clean.


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## rton20s

JAX said:


> I guess cause the other amps take that duty. I imagine this little 2 channel will be discontinued. I am still wanting to try one as it looks to be better than the other lines 4 channel.
> 
> these look very slick while I am not that fond of the square 4 and single amp and they are also much cheaper and specs arent as clean.


I think we are both on the same page. With the limited product line, I fear the PRS-D800 will disappear soon as well. Which is unfortunate, because aesthetically, I think it is one of my favorite amps available today. I also like the idea of decent power without any crossover and dedicated gains per channel.


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## JAX

rton20s said:


> I think we are both on the same page. With the limited product line, I fear the PRS-D800 will disappear soon as well. Which is unfortunate, because aesthetically, I think it is one of my favorite amps available today. I also like the idea of decent power without any crossover and dedicated gains per channel.


mostly what I like is no extra stuff I dont need. just amplify the signal..all I need


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## rton20s

Well, just in case daveds50 or any other amp techs happen to still be following this thread, I have a question. 

Would it be possible, and what would it take to modify the amp to produce more power safely? Either in both 2 channel mode and bridged mono mode, or strictly limited to mono. And is there a rough dollar figure you would attach to such a modification? 

Not that I own one, or would like to have said work done. Just a curiosity. One that could convince me to pick a couple of these up.


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## JAX

rton20s said:


> Well, just in case daveds50 or any other amp techs happen to still be following this thread, I have a question.
> 
> Would it be possible, and what would it take to modify the amp to produce more power safely? Either in both 2 channel mode and bridged mono mode, or strictly limited to mono. And is there a rough dollar figure you would attach to such a modification?
> 
> Not that I own one, or would like to have said work done. Just a curiosity. One that could convince me to pick a couple of these up.



I sent you his email. ask him and let me know what he says or let us all know


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## daveds50

answering your email here... 



rton20s said:


> And is there a rough dollar figure you would attach to such a modification?


 you dont want to know...  but step one, would be to throw the amp in the trash can, and design and build something different from scratch... and i charge companies quite a bit to do that. but... you would have bragging rights to the worlds most expensive car amp. :laugh:

because they use a surface mount "chip" transistor, rather than those conventional 3 legged transistors, upgrading them for more power requires the transistor manufacturers to produce a new transistor that has more power. it is not as simple as replacing parts with higher current/voltage parts and resulting in more power. we are at the mercy of the transistor manufacturer to develop and produce the more powerful transistors. 

the likelihood of that happening in the future, is slim to none. the surface mount transistors used in audio outputs, have not exactly taken the industry by storm. there are still only a handful of amps that use them. in other words, Phillips and International Rectifier are not shipping daily truckloads of these things out the door. so they have no motivation to develop new more powerful surface mount transistors for audio. 

they also can be problematic. one of the reasons why it would not be a good idea to modify one of these D800's, is even if a more powerful transistor was available, the heat control in these amps is so small, that it may not handle it. from the ones that have been here since this thread was started when i had only worked on one, they seem to have a heat issue when bridged and ran hard. at least thats what it seems like from the ones i have seen since. it does make sense, ever since the the trend to small amps started... it is not easy to make a powerful amp really small, without heat concerns. 

honestly, if you need more power than it puts out, there are much better and more powerful amps out there that are a better choice. these, are actually a really poor choice for sub duty, if good power is what you require.


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## rton20s

Daveds50, thank you for the thorough response. You've essentially confirmed what I feared all along. 

It is kind of unfortunate that Pioneer essentially killed this new PRS line before it ever really had a chance. I really do like the size, look, power a and "lack" of features. A matching four channel and mono amp with decent power could have made for a very popular line. For now, I'll probably just let it go. 

Thanks again for your input!


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## JAX

well that does it for me. not going to worry about them. maybe I can find a suitable mate for the prs I do have.


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## rton20s

There has got to be a PRS-A700 out there somewhere for sale.


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## shi_daniel

daveds50 said:


> answering your email here...
> 
> 
> 
> you dont want to know...  but step one, would be to throw the amp in the trash can, and design and build something different from scratch... and i charge companies quite a bit to do that. but... you would have bragging rights to the worlds most expensive car amp. :laugh:
> 
> because they use a surface mount "chip" transistor, rather than those conventional 3 legged transistors, upgrading them for more power requires the transistor manufacturers to produce a new transistor that has more power. it is not as simple as replacing parts with higher current/voltage parts and resulting in more power. we are at the mercy of the transistor manufacturer to develop and produce the more powerful transistors.
> 
> the likelihood of that happening in the future, is slim to none. the surface mount transistors used in audio outputs, have not exactly taken the industry by storm. there are still only a handful of amps that use them. in other words, Phillips and International Rectifier are not shipping daily truckloads of these things out the door. so they have no motivation to develop new more powerful surface mount transistors for audio.
> 
> they also can be problematic. one of the reasons why it would not be a good idea to modify one of these D800's, is even if a more powerful transistor was available, the heat control in these amps is so small, that it may not handle it. from the ones that have been here since this thread was started when i had only worked on one, they seem to have a heat issue when bridged and ran hard. at least thats what it seems like from the ones i have seen since. it does make sense, ever since the the trend to small amps started... it is not easy to make a powerful amp really small, without heat concerns.
> 
> honestly, if you need more power than it puts out, there are much better and more powerful amps out there that are a better choice. these, are actually a really poor choice for sub duty, if good power is what you require.


Could you suggest a good SQ Amp for a 200W RMS Subwoofer (U$130-U$180 range)?

Thanks
Daniel


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