# Sony High Res Deck



## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

WOW, let the drooling begin. 



















More Info:
Sony Hi-Res Audio For Car Due This Year | ceoutlook.com

Any guesses as to what this beauty is going to cost?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

but no cd player


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

I think the lack of screen space is going to be a problem for a lot of people. That tiny screen won't even display an entire song title, let alone artist and album. The knob should be on the right side, not dead center, with a larger display taking up most of the left side. 

However, the specs look promising, and it would be a nice piece for some people. But if I'm going to be using a digital source, they are going to need a reasonable way to navigate the files.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

gijoe said:


> I think the lack of screen space is going to be a problem for a lot of people. That tiny screen won't even display an entire song title, let alone artist and album. The knob should be on the right side, not dead center, with a larger display taking up most of the left side.
> 
> However, the specs look promising, and it would be a nice piece for some people. But if I'm going to be using a digital source, they are going to need a reasonable way to navigate the files.


I really think that Sony looked at the market and who would want a deck like this. Most of those users are probably more than ok with using their tablet or phone as the dedicated source. That's why you're not seeing a fancy screen and the face is so plain. To that end, according the article, if you're using an Android device Sony suggests using an OTG cable to connect to the deck.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

slowsedan01 said:


> I really think that Sony looked at the market and who would want a deck like this. Most of those users are probably more than ok with using their tablet or phone as the dedicated source. That's why you're not seeing a fancy screen and the face is so plain. To that end, according the article, if you're using an Android device Sony suggests using an OTG cable to connect to the deck.


Using those things as a source is great, but fumbling around for an ipod, iphone, android phone, etc. while driving is not safe, nor convenient. There is no reason why you can't use those as a source, but still have access to the information you need in a safe, convenience way.


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## HiloDB1 (Feb 25, 2011)

gijoe said:


> Using those things as a source is great, but fumbling around for an ipod, iphone, android phone, etc. while driving is not safe, nor convenient. There is no reason why you can't use those as a source, but still have access to the information you need in a safe, convenience way.


Not to mention its illegal in some states.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

HiloDB1 said:


> Not to mention its illegal in some states.


As it should be.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Am I the only one that noticed they showed this deck with a 400x2 amp too?!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

knever3 said:


> Am I the only one that noticed they showed this deck with a 400x2 amp too?!!


and "super tweeters"


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

gijoe said:


> As it should be.


So should listening to the radio while driving.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

wizzi001 said:


> So should listening to the radio while driving.


Listening to music while driving doesn't take your visual attention away from the road, digging around for your ipod to change a song does.


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

gijoe said:


> Listening to music while driving doesn't take your visual attention away from the road, digging around for your ipod to change a song does.


A distraction is a distraction. if you want the government to step up and interfere with laws for one thing, you should expect them to do it for all.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm in on this one!!! 
Optical Out - Sweet - Straight in the DSP with no RCA. Sweetiness!!!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

wizzi001 said:


> A distraction is a distraction. if you want the government to step up and interfere with laws for one thing, you should expect them to do it for all.


Your argument is absurd, would you also want to outlaw chewing gum while driving? The flavor is stimulating ypur sense of taste, causing a distraction, a minor one sure, but hey, "a distraction is a distraction" right?


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

gijoe said:


> Your argument is absurd, would you also want to outlaw chewing gum while driving? The flavor is stimulating ypur sense of taste, causing a distraction, a minor one sure, but hey, "a distraction is a distraction" right?



You've made your point, let's not derail this thread.

I'm looking forward to this unit!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Will be cool if it can output 24/96 on the optical. Would be perfect for the Helix DSP-Pro.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

teldzc1 said:


> Will be cool if it can output 24/96 on the optical. Would be perfect for the Helix DSP-Pro.



Exactly.

I like the that there is not a large distracting screen. Visual interference. Radio has become YouTube, so unless you have screen. You can see that either.

This is stepping up where current single den radios are missing. If the price is right. This will work for sure in my setup.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

I'd love for Sony to release a modern high-end 10-Channel+ "ES" DSP to go along with this and to replace the XES system and XDP-4000X.

The other problem as previously mentioned is that this digital output will be Down-Sampled when connected to most DSPs other than the Helix DSP PRO or Audison Bit.One-HD.

And unfortunately, Sony has always had a problem producing a really good, intuitive, daylight-readable, and reliable Display for even their high-end Car Audio Head Units.

I agree that a safe, thorough, and intuitive GUI would be THE most important aspect of this product's design, usability, and success. All we can do is sit back and wait.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

It'll need a 10 channel dsp to use the super tweeters. Unless you do a 3 way front with midbass/midrange, tweeter, and super tweeter. Of course that's also pretty useless unless the dsp can tune above 20,000hz, and then, how do you tune above 20,000hz. Certainly not by ear.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

bbfoto said:


> I'd love for Sony to release a modern high-end 10-Channel+ "ES" DSP to go along with this...



I agree. A current Sony Mobile ES System. Source, DSP, AMP. source check. DSP I would like to see with 12 channels. Most higher end cars are coming with speakers all over the place. Some don't want to change out the speakers. Give people the option to update some guts and make a system shine, This day and age high power amps class d is running cheap. I would like to see about 174 x 4 clean power. If you get the triple lindy allow them all to connect via optical in and out. To the speakers of you choice via some sweet rca connects or etc. I don't feel people will buy the speakers. Leave them alone and keep producing nice tvs. 

Keep it simple and powerful.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Yea, I agree with most. It seems like this deck is the first cog in a larger multi-component set. If Sony comes out with a 10-12 channel DSP that is made to go with this deck you can guarantee that it will be expensive. I'm guessing that the deck alone is going to be in the $500 ballpark.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

We will see. With as large as sony is technology wise, they could make something very amazing, and keep the price point low. They are a hugh tech company with resources far and wide. That keep the price low. This could be a amazing thing!


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## V 2the C (Mar 12, 2015)

With all the front connections they should just put Xplode on the front too. The most disappointing brand from what they could have been and second place isn't close.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I would guess higher than $500. Just look at their newest "walkman".


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I would guess higher than $500. Just look at their newest "walkman".


Good point, maybe I was having a bit of wishful thinking.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It's "Xplōd", not "Xplode"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

Gotta get me some of that 90khz music.


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## HiloDB1 (Feb 25, 2011)

wizzi001 said:


> A distraction is a distraction. if you want the government to step up and interfere with laws for one thing, you should expect them to do it for all.


Based on your logic driving shouldnt be legal at all. Seeing as a distraction is a distraction basically everything you do while driving is a distraction. I guess the government should step up and ban driving 

sorry for thread jack


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

looking at the pics of this thing, i wonder if its actually as deep as a normal deck. it doesn't take that much space to have a DA Converter and some outputs. they could easily make it just a faceplate which would make sense as most cars come with factory integrated systems. it would be much easier to mount just a faceplate into the dash as opposed to removing the stock deck and installing a brand new single din unit.


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

HiloDB1 said:


> Based on your logic driving shouldnt be legal at all. Seeing as a distraction is a distraction basically everything you do while driving is a distraction. I guess the government should step up and ban driving
> 
> sorry for thread jack


No that would be based off the other guys logic. He believes one thing is a distraction and likes government involvement to make it illegal. Maybe you should learn to read all the posts instead of cherry picking.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Through a little more digging I found the model number of the deck: RSX-GS9

Also found a website that had way more information that must have slipped through the cracks back in February:

Sony Hits High-Resolution Audio Road | Twice

Highlights:

"The mech-less head unit is the first aftermarket head unit announced to date with high-res playback capability. The head unit not only decodes high-res files but also processes them through built-in high-resolution ESS ES9018 192kHz/24-bit DACs. “Native DSD full-performance playback is possible,” a spokesperson said, “and from speaker output, over 40kHz sound will come.” 

"The head unit will be accompanied by a companion high-res capable amplifier and super tweeter for use with GS series speakers and subwoofers to reproduce a high-res experience in the car. It’s compatible with smartphones, high-res- compatible portable media players, and USB memory sticks. It also features OLED display with good visibility, time alignment though the company’s SongPal app, and optical output. The head unit connects to the outboard amplifier via Toslink digital output. "

Please Sony don't screw this up by making this a proprietary Toslink connector!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

That's interesting! ESS DAC is nice! Although it will be interesting how the TA and digital outputs work together.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Solid information.

" head unit will be accompanied by a companion high-res capable amplifier and super tweeter for use with GS series speakers and subwoofers"

I hope they are not locking you in with just the use of there components. 

We need the Headunit and Processor! Optical!


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

a 40Khz capable system, is putting half the expense on half of the spectrum I won't be able to hear.

if there is something tangible, quantifiable, about the detail or the general fullness of the playback that High Rez is able to produce, in a no-holds-barred, audibility test...


then hey, let's put it out there.

I'm all for pushing the boundary back, making things with circuits that have "overkill" as their mission statement.

If a panel of 10 people can't do better than 55% on ABX testing using the newest, and the greatest, if the switching from this to a normal 44.1Khz CD wav file, and back again proves that we are using out-dated technology then that's great, bring it on...



but if the consensus view is that this is for those people who can't hear the difference but electrical tests using objective equipment shows that the technology is superior, I'm still on board, hey...

I'm a freak too and I want to believe, I want to own the superlative, I want to know that after all is said and done, there is no weak link in my chain, there is no indication that I've not measured well, or up... our little portmanteau, in the wasteland...

High REZ, indeed...


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

slowsedan01 said:


> WOW, let the drooling begin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just from the looks of this, I get the impression this thing is a very early prototype that'll probably never make it to market. I think if anything Sony is simply testing the waters with it.. The minuscule display is my first clue. The styling however is something I wish the big-head-unit-brands would take note of however.. Clean, minimal, quality.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

cajunner said:


> a 40Khz capable system, is putting half the expense on half of the spectrum I won't be able to hear.
> 
> if there is something tangible, quantifiable, about the detail or the general fullness of the playback that High Rez is able to produce, in a no-holds-barred, audibility test...
> 
> ...


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

But on this.. Since we're talking probable vaporware.. If I were the king of head-unit design, I'd do this hi-rez business in a 2-din, still with a somewhat minimal face with enough rows to successfully navigate USB source (which is attached in back, not front). Why 2-din? Well that's for the space to go straight from itself as source to the in-board full function no-holds-barred 10ch DSP that could process at that rez level. Bam! Who's with me?!?!?!  I'd certainly pigtail 10 RCA runs behind the dash for such a beastly thing.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Babs said:


> But on this.. Since we're talking probable vaporware.. If I were the king of head-unit design, I'd do this hi-rez business in a 2-din, still with a somewhat minimal face with enough rows to successfully navigate USB source (which is attached in back, not front). Why 2-din? Well that's for the space to go straight from itself as source to the in-board full function no-holds-barred 10ch DSP that could process at that rez level. Bam! Who's with me?!?!?!  I'd certainly pigtail 10 RCA runs behind the dash for such a beastly thing.


I actually think the approach Sony is taking is for this unit to be more of a preamp rather than receiver. FWIW, I haven't read anything about this unit having any kind of tuner, digital or analog. For guys like me who have a big, complex, OEM integrated system, I don't have the space to install a 2 Din and my OEM dash. I can't remove the OEM equipment because it will kill my LCD/Nav (if I had it). Creative installers can usually find a way to fit a single din and keep the OEM equipment, so in this sense the Sony deck would accept an input from the OEM source along with a users media device. Further, the lack of screen is negated because as the article states functionality will be enhanced by using the SongPal app which already provides a player view for stored or streaming music and EQ functions. 

Just my $.02.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Has anyone seen the NFC logo in the center dial? Quick pair ftw!


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Not that I don't like the idea behind the unit....

But what does hi-res really matter for if it doesn't solve the current problem of music being mastered like crap. Sure, _SOME_ hi-res releases are mastered better, but many are just the same dynamically compressed crap as the cd masters, without the downsampling. The dynamic compression and loudness wars far overshadow anything gained by the higher sampling rate and "frequency response past 40khz".


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I think that's why DSD is supported here. A lot of the remastered hi-rez products are released on DSD files now. 

It will be interesting to see if the analog or digital output would be better. A couple extremely hi end home DAC's convert DSD to PCM before conversion (eg Berkeley Alpha DAC). If this will do the conversion and output 24/96 then this could be a big win. Even the analog out might sound great.

I also agree w Slowsedan. My post earlier was in regards to the exact same thing. This is more of a digital preamp than head unit as we are used to. I wouldn't be surprised if control and display is really done through an App rather than relying on anything built it.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

how many High Res car audio products are available at this time?


Isn't High Res a blanket term for new technology being promoted by Neil Young, where you can buy 24 bit/96K recordings and this would fill the void for something you can put in a dash that decodes it natively without desampling or upsampling or whatever?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

However, dsd doesn't guarantee a good master. There are plenty of dsd releases that are brickwalled as well, and the ones that aren't generally are far outside the mainstream audience. As much as I like classical, I'm not a jazz fan, and those are the two biggest groups of well mastered high resolution content. 

So, for most people, hi-res is still a wash, it doesn't fix the real problem.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

slowsedan01 said:


> I actually think the approach Sony is taking is for this unit to be more of a preamp rather than receiver. FWIW, I haven't read anything about this unit having any kind of tuner, digital or analog. For guys like me who have a big, complex, OEM integrated system, I don't have the space to install a 2 Din and my OEM dash. I can't remove the OEM equipment because it will kill my LCD/Nav (if I had it). Creative installers can usually find a way to fit a single din and keep the OEM equipment, so in this sense the Sony deck would accept an input from the OEM source along with a users media device. Further, the lack of screen is negated because as the article states functionality will be enhanced by using the SongPal app which already provides a player view for stored or streaming music and EQ functions.
> 
> Just my $.02.


Excellent points all.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

without turning this thread into a total cluster, i agree that hi res doesn't solve the issue. a lot of hi res releases are also remastered. also agree that many of the releases are stuff i'll never listen too.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

if they build it, high res audio media will come..

I think that having the available player in place, will help push markets to produce this new high res audio as a pitch point, or sales tactic.

you'll see Timberlake or Bieber or GAGA or whatever, and they will get behind it and put out an album with high res masters that will show a difference between their normal CD resolution and the new High Res content and that will help people start the early adopter process.

It's going to have to be pitched as audible, for the marketplace to change, and the average buyer to spend another 200 bucks on a hardware change in late-model aftermarket units, (IE, HD Radio or BlueRay, DVD Audio) as a "feature" in their fully decked out, decks. AptX is supposed to be good enough, but this thing pushes the bitrate out of the 384/320 mp3 codecs into some extreme number, right? If wav in 44.1K is 1411, then what is the new stuff?

I hope they aren't going to try and gouge listeners on technology that can't even be reliably ABX tested for superiority, right?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Cajunner, that's my whole point. Unless the loudness wars go away, hi-res is pretty pointless, as that ruins the music far more than cd quality ruins it. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that with songs that are mastered the same with hi-res and cd, that no difference could be discerned. Just my personal opinion having a few songs in multiple formats that are mastered the same.

For instance, take Avenged Sevenfold's Hail To The King. Whether you like the music or no is not the important part.

The hi-res download from hd-tracks is mastered the same as the cd. The only difference is that the cd has been down sampled to fit and play as a cd. But mastering is the same. I have both tracks, and playing through my 24/192 capable home stereo, I can't hear a difference between the two. I can however, hear a difference between either of those tracks, and the vinyl release after its been ripped to 16/44.1. The vinyl version is mastered differently, and it's mastered to be more dynamic. I can not only hear this, but see it opening both files in audacity. 

If hi-res guaranteed the better mastering of the vinyl, without the added noise, it would be a no contest win for the hi-res format. But it doesn't, it instead only gives a chance that it might be mastered better. Because that album is not, I've chosen to live with a slight noise floor and a more dynamic recording by ripping a digital copy from the record.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

cajunner said:


> if they build it, high res audio media will come..
> 
> I think that having the available player in place, will help push markets to produce this new high res audio as a pitch point, or sales tactic.
> 
> ...


Excellent points. Let's also not forget that Sony owns several huge labels such as Columbia, epic, RCA, et al... Since they are vested in this technology they have the ability to influence the format and recording standards however they see fit. If a major artist on one of their labels is working on a major release it's almost certain to be released in high res, as Sony wants to get their money worth on the investment in technology. As artitsts on these labels make releases in high res, others (on different labels) will too or be seen to be behind the times.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

teldzc1 said:


> looking at the pics of this thing, i wonder if its actually as deep as a normal deck. it doesn't take that much space to have a DA Converter and some outputs. they could easily make it just a faceplate which would make sense as most cars come with factory integrated systems. it would be much easier to mount just a faceplate into the dash as opposed to removing the stock deck and installing a brand new single din unit.


from a pic i saw, it's now a full size din unit. not sure what's all in there for it to be so big. at ces, it's was just a lighted faceplate it seemed.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

and since Sony is heavy in distribution/licensing money, which took the biggest brunt of Napster derivative new man's musicography, pirated streams...

they would be interested in developing some way to limit the playback of their artist's works with some imaginary foil, like High Res.


I don't believe they will be very successful since the 44.1K limit is arguably hard to audibly surpass in testing, and with manipulated/fondled mastering technology they will do the equivalent of a car audio shop's sound board trickery, making "louder better" will supposedly "require" high res, when 44.1K gets plenty loud, haha...


or push the audiophile 40Khz, "I can't hear it, but it's there" ruse, there's a lot going on right now as recording industry long-haul guys are spinning webs.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Looks Like "SoundScape Car Audio" Texas. Did an install with this head unit. According to the information they shared. It will be released in December.

soundscape


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Amazing Work!!!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

That thing for real? Nice! 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Very nice. This can lead straight to a processor of your choice of processor? Does it have an optical out?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

The great limiting factor of this unit will be the horribly-named (IMO) "SongPal" app. 

Sony's PMP and Music/PC Software and mobile apps have, IME, always been horrid, proprietary, bug-ridden hot messes.  You'll be lucky if their apps or software support and make use of standard ID3 Tags.

We'll see how this pans out. I am hopeful. Maybe we'll be able to use an independent DLNA app.

The SongPal app is currently on the Google Play Store (for use with their current lineup of Bluetooth Speakers, A/V Home Receivers, and Car Stereos. Read the Description, view the Screenshots, and read the reviews.

One of the screenshots shows an "Intuitive EQ Setting" with a 5-Band Graphic +/-10dB EQ with the frequency bands listed from left to right as, "100 - 1k - 10k - 1k - 10k". LOL.

I didn't bother to look for it on the Apple App Store.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I personally dont care to much about an app to use with it. As long as it alreay comes with a remote that gives me the control I desire. The rest will work out.

Right now my plans are to take this and see how I can use it directly with the Psix by Helix, then to rest of the system. Right now I am rethinking some items, so we will see.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Sony has posted all their information?

RSX-GS9 Specifications | Car Audio | Sony US


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Well, there is a mention of a "remote" in the specs, but they don't show it and it's not included in the list of "What's in the Box". It seems as if the SongPal app offers "full feature" control, and without it some key operational and playback features will not be available.

I wonder what devices will support the Sony LDAC Hi-Res Bluetooth Codec? Probably only Sony Xperia mobile devices. 

There seems to be a supplied external microphone and some vague references to some type of "Voice Commands". And it's not clear to me if the mic is used for Hands-Free BT Calling...from the specs it didn't seem like it?

I know that AM/FM radio tuners don't go hand-in-hand with a Hi-Res media player device, but since this is a complete Single-DIN unit, it will most likely have to replace the OEM head unit in most installs. So you will lose that built-in hardware tuner functionality. Of course you can stream AM/FM stations with the Tune-In Radio or iHeart Radio apps, as long as you have an Internet connection.

EDIT: The Specs state "RDS" and some other tidbits that indicate that this unit *might* have a built-in Tuner. /EDIT

It's too late in the evening for me to really dissect the specs and features that have been posted, but just one thing I'm wondering is if it will do Gapless Playback? In addition, under the USB "Resume Play" spec, it says, "Yes (from the start)". 

Anyway, there are still a lot of questions to be answered. Hopefully it ends up being all that we've hoped for, but I'll be a proper gentleman and let you boys be the beta testers and guinea pigs.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

So this does exist and they made it? Only saying that because i read earlier in this thread it may not ever make it to the market. Wish it had a bigger screen though like akready mentioned. In uk if i touch my phone while driving thats 3 points and a fine. You also get 3 points for speeding or ban for extreme speeding. 12 points results in loosing license and requires a retest. Oh and driving without insurance 6 points. Points stay on license for 3 years and can be seen checked for 5 years.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

ImK'ed said:


> So this does exist and they made it? Only saying that because i read earlier in this thread it may not ever make it to the market. Wish it had a bigger screen though like akready mentioned. In uk if i touch my phone while driving thats 3 points and a fine. You also get 3 points for speeding or ban for extreme speeding. 12 points results in loosing license and requires a retest. Oh and driving without insurance 6 points. Points stay on license for 3 years and can be seen checked for 5 years.


Yes, this could definitely be a problem in most locales.

And even if you think that a Hi-Res playback source will offer better SQ, you would have to route that output into a DSP capable of processing or throughput of the Hi-Res sample & bit rates, which to my knowledge there are only 2 available at the moment...though the Helix DSP PRO has become quite popular recently.

Interested parties might want to read and/or watch YouTube reviews of Sony's Home Audio Hi-Res Digital Source & Streaming units, the HAP-Z1ES and HAP-S1...

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HAPZ1ES-Hi-Res-Player-System/dp/B00FFZD29Q

Here's another link to the new Car Audio products:

Best Car Audio Products with Hi-Res Audio | Sony US

And a "review" of the Sony XM-GS400:

PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Sony XM-GS400 Amplifier Review

EDIT: The above amp is an older model but it's the one that was in the link on the Sony page. There is supposedly a new XM-GS4 amp?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

this deck comes with time alignment and 10 band equalization, so it appears to already possess a good deal of DSP already.

for a reasonable 2-way plus sub system, you may not need a processor outboard of the deck, depending on install.

it looks good for a first run on the SQ market, I expect later versions to pop with features but I like this barebones look with the solid fitted parts.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

It processing wise it reminds me of the pioneer p80 I think the model number is. It has only a few cover points to choose from and etc. if creative this could run a 2.1 system in the car, minus the high grade processor. But if you are into tweaking like most of us, over wise. It won't be enough.


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## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

Great choice of Dac & Opamps. Should be a great sounding source unit.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

NealfromNZ said:


> Great choice of Dac & Opamps. Should be a great sounding source unit.


Yup. They got that part right!


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Did the information say anything about optical outs? I have not had a chance to go through it line by line.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Did the information say anything about optical outs? I have not had a chance to go through it line by line.



I seriously doubt it but man wouldn't that just be perfect. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

How would one reach Hi-Resolution without the use of Optical Cables? RCAs can only take you so far....

I have no clue.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> How would one reach Hi-Resolution without the use of Optical Cables? RCAs can only take you so far....
> 
> I have no clue.


Analog RCA cables are bit rate & bit depth agnostic. They do not limit the bandwidth or "resolution" coming out of the DAC as long as the analog circuitry is good and also has equally high bandwidth and SNR/THD performance. (Balanced XLR's would be a better choice, but...)

Remember, "DAC" is an acronym for "Digital to Analog Converter". The Analog waveform sent over the RCA cables from the DAC still includes all of the "High-Resolution" audio information that was present in the digital signal of the "Hi-Res" digital audio file that was converted within the DAC.

Just because you connect analog RCA cables from the DAC's RCA outputs and then directly to your amplifiers does not reduce or limit the resulting sound or audio signal to 16bit/44.1kHz Redbook CD quality. The resolution or audio bandwidth of the sound is still there, along with a higher S/N ratio or less noise floor (provided that the analog circuitry is up to snuff).

If you then connect your analog RCA outputs to yet another Hi-Res DAC or a Hi-Res DSP (anything with better than 16/44 resolution), it will still be able to "grab" or capture the finer detail and extended bandwidth of the "Hi-Res" audio information that is present in the Analog waveform or signal, and then further process it or relay it on to the next device in the signal chain.

Yes, there may be degradation of the signal from digital clocking & jitter issues or the quality of the analog circuitry, etc. So ideally, yes, you want to keep the audio signal in the Digital Domain as far as you can throughout the signal chain, but once the digital signal gets to the DAC, it's the DAC's obvious job to convert the digital signal to a nice, clean, low noise, higher bandwidth "Hi-Res" ANALOG signal that still includes all of that "better" sound.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Wow. Let the church say aman!!! Another question. If the amplifier says it performs from 20Hz to 40kHz. Once the high res info gets to the amplifier, is it now gone!!!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Wow. Let the church say aman!!! Another question. If the amplifier says it performs from 20Hz to 40kHz. Once the high res info gets to the amplifier, is it now gone!!!


Be gone with it, I say! Can you hear beyond the typical 20Hz-20kHz Human hearing limit?  Why waste power and bandwidth reproducing frequencies that only bats and elephants can hear? 

I'm just dismayed that there is so much marketing BS and snake oil on Sony's product page regarding just the "Super Tweeters" alone. That, and the lad that's driving the car with the "Super Tweeters" on the dash looks like he's experiencing a bit of road rage, LOL...he's definitely not enjoying the music, haha.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Hahahhah thanks for the info.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Wanting to know if this faceplate is removable?


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm curious to know if the same plugs on the front are located on the back as well. Just to keep the install clean at all times. And if someone jumped in your car to play some music via there device, you don't have to unplug yours.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> I'm curious to know if the same plugs on the front are located on the back as well. Just to keep the install clean at all times. And if someone jumped in your car to play some music via there device, you don't have to unplug yours.


The specs list that there are a Total of 2 Female Type "A" (full size) USB ports. One is on the Front Panel, and One is on the Back of the chassis.

There is only 1 micro-USB jack, and it is located on the Front Panel.

There is also just One 3.5mm TRS stereo AUX Input jack, and it is located on the Front Panel.

For friends or passengers, you may just want to have them connect via Bluetooth, unless they have Hi-Res files or if their media player/source does not have Apt-X CSR or LDAC Bluetooth connection capabilities.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> Analog RCA cables are bit rate & bit depth agnostic. They do not limit the bandwidth or "resolution" coming out of the DAC as long as the analog circuitry is good and also has equally high bandwidth and SNR/THD performance. (Balanced XLR's would be a better choice, but...)
> 
> Remember, "DAC" is an acronym for "Digital to Analog Converter". The Analog waveform sent over the RCA cables from the DAC still includes all of the "High-Resolution" audio information that was present in the digital signal of the "Hi-Res" digital audio file that was converted within the DAC.
> 
> ...


I understand that there are boutique op amps that can be swapped out in some audio gear, and that they make a small but significant difference depending on personal taste, but I believe I have read that people are also able to determine if a device is good or just so-so, by the A-D and D-A converters used, as some are more costly and capable than others.

so if this is true, wouldn't it be glaringly obvious which versions of A-D and D-A bits are better than others if using a deck with the quality like this one has?


I mean, I figure that it's snake oil up to a point, but once you've increased the throughput of the bit depth a number of times, some of the lesser bits will reveal themselves and the best bits are the ones that won't impact the amount of correct data getting into the RCA signal at the end.

And if that's a fact, then Sony would have tested and applied this criteria and come up with the super-fast stuffs, and although others may find super-fast stuffs to be "clinical" or "sterile" I would suggest that they are possibly just correct, and that there is little chance of modding the unit to perform with higher cost bits, until such time that the state of the art has advanced beyond what Sony opted to put into this early adopter deck.

The way I see it, it's going to cost a bundle and will likely become a favorite in the competition circuit due to it's ability to resolve at a level that no ordinary deck will.

The 24/96 of the DRZ9255 was once like that I believe, and many used them until competitive offerings came along. I'm not sure what the DEX-P9 combo was capable of, but it too was superseded by later tech.

This Sony unit is the later tech, about to supersede everything else. And isn't that what we all wanted, the media/content/loudness wars/production angles notwithstanding?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with the above response. My wording may not have been the best, or I'm probably just too tired to comprehend anything right now, LOL.

I have No Doubts that this Sony will be an absolutely fantastic-sounding source unit. The DAC chips and OP-Amps are some of the best available, and one of the few that support DSD. And I'm sure that Sony has implemented the supporting circuitry exceptionally well in order to extract the best possible performance from all of this digital electron and analog output stage goodness!

I am currently using some pro audio and home + portable audio devices that use these same ESS DAC chips and I have no complaints with the quality of the sound. 

Moving ahead...So unfortunately, it doesn't look as if this unit will have an Optical Output or any other type of direct Digital Output. If it did, that might be a bonus for those that would like to connect digitally to an outboard DSP which also has a Digital Input and operates with true "Hi-Res" throughput.

As commonly understood here, the main advantage of a purely digital connection within an automotive environment is to reduce or eliminate any chance of radiated or induced RFI & EMI noise that could otherwise contaminate the original source signal via analog cabling.

If the Sony source unit did have a Digital Output, would there be any digital clocking/jitter issues between it and the Digital Input of an outboard DSP that would significantly degrade the SQ? ...I have no idea. Though, as a side note, the DAW and associated D/A and A/D converters that are used in a professional recording studio environment will have one D/A-A/D unit (or sometimes it's a standalone piece of gear) that provides a "Master (Digital) Clock" signal for all other downstream units to "sync" to.

In my previous post, I was just stating that you are not going to "loose bits" or hinder the "Hi-Res" quality of the source signal that is fed directly into the amplifier(s) from the Sony's analog pre-outs just because you connect them with RCA cables instead of a digital connection.

My previous reference to "snake oil" in Sony's marketing was mostly regarding how they advertised the benefits of their "Super Tweeters" that would radiate frequencies of up to 50kHz throughout the interior of the vehicle, and how they implied that this capability would make a substantial difference in the quality of sound compared to conventional tweeters. 

Of more concern to me is how the HID or GUI will be implemented. It looks as if the featured way to control the full operation of the source unit, and whatever advanced tuning capabilities it will have, will be through the use of the "SongPal" app on your smartphone or tablet.

It's already been stated that it is illegal in most locales to handle these portable devices while driving. If you have to visually swipe and search through your phone to select music, then that is obviously not hands-free and is a major distraction, IMO equivalent to texting. Does it make it "okay" if the device is in a dock or dash-mounted? Well, in reality that would be no different than the plethora of DD Touchscreen Head Units used even by the OEM auto manufacturers, right?

And Sony always seems to work in at least a few silly proprietary tidbits into their products, whether it be a connection type, app, software, or codec that the rest of the industry is never interested in or compelled to support. Cue the rare and expensive XA-D210/211 digital output adapter that was needed in order to use the Digital Output on the flagship CDX-C910 and C90 Mobile ES head units.  Just give us standard Toslink please!

Will the included DSP tuning capabilities and the number of outputs be enough for most of us? Probably not, though it's probably more than any average consumer would ever want or use. But it would be a pity to handicap this amazing new technology by not including capabities at least as thorough as the old Sony XDP-4000X. Perhaps they could offer an option to enable a "Pro Mode" with a separate USB thumbdrive/key?

Anyhoo, I'm really looking forward to what this could offer.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Looks like it does have an optical out! My Kenwood head unit just got replaced. I don't listen to the radio anyway hahahahaha!


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Looks like it does have an optical out! My Kenwood head unit just got replaced. I don't listen to the radio anyway hahahahaha!



Where did you find that picture? Thanks for the confirmation of the optical out, I know have my 3rd chubby of the day.


Specs from Sony's webpage indicate it does have a built in tuner. Now if it had built in HD radio, I be stuck with a chub until I get the Sony into my hands.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Salami said:


> Where did you find that picture? Thanks for the confirmation of the optical out, I know have my 3rd chubby of the day.
> 
> 
> Specs from Sony's webpage indicate it does have a built in tuner. Now if it had built in HD radio, I be stuck with a chub until I get the Sony into my hands.


Sony has officially released info on their website:

Bluetooth® Car Stereo with MP3 | RSX-GS9 | Sony US

Along with all of their high-res related products (minus the dsp):

Wireless Over-Ear Bluetooth Headphones | Hi-Res Headphones | Sony US


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Looks like it does have an optical out! My Kenwood head unit just got replaced. I don't listen to the radio anyway hahahahaha!


Well aaaaaalllllllrighty then! 
My interest is now significantly increased.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

You guys see the whole page yet and the video.. I think I've kinda shed a small tear. All because of that cute little optical port. Amazing how that happens huh. And dang look at that power/ground port.

Ok... Taking bets on pricing. I'm gonna predict now a $800 MSRP for this thing.

K dealer folk.. Anyone?


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

the digital, like most, is not controlled by the unit. in case anyone thinks it might.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Babs said:


> You guys see the whole page yet and the video.. I think I've kinda shed a small tear. All because of that cute little optical port. Amazing how that happens huh. And dang look at that power/ground port.
> 
> Ok... Taking bets on pricing. I'm gonna predict now a $600 MSRP for this thing.


a sony rep said, more than 1k, less than 2k.


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

jtaudioacc said:


> a sony rep said, more than 1k, less than 2k.


 Screw that **** then!


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

DSD will not play over Optical. Not that it matters, because the highest resolution DSP in the car audio market is the Helix Pro which can only take up to 96kHz. DSD is way too much data for that.


When using Optical, the volume controller and the menu options will not work. i.e. EQ, balance, fader, etc...

You need a volume control on the DSP if using Optical.


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## SteveH! (Nov 7, 2005)

Bluetooth Car Stereo with MP3 | RSX-GS9 | Sony UK


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Î£Ï„Î±Ï…Ï�ÏŒÏ€Î¿Ï…Î»Î¿Ï‚ Î†ÎºÎ·Ï‚: IFA 2015 – Sony RSX-GS9 ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÎµÏ€Î¹Ï„Î*Î»Î¿Ï…Ï‚ Î®Ï‡Î¿Ï‚ Î³Î¹Î± Ï„Î¿ Î±Ï…Ï„Î¿ÎºÎ¯Î½Î·Ï„Î¿…

Have google translate the page.

Here's a pic of the app you use I guess?

[IFA 2015] announced the DSD for the Sony heirezoker audio system | Responsejp (Automotive technology / car navigation system and car audio products )


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Okay, this unit is now officially starting to look [email protected], and I'll have to eat all of my pessimistic words, LOL!

-AM/FM Tuner - Check (yes, I'd also like it to be an HD tuner, but it's not)
-Optical Output - Check
-No cheap, noise emitting internal amplifier - Check
-BT Hands-Free Calling - Check
-Hi-Res BT Streaming (up to 16-bit/48kHz sampling) - Check
-Internal DSP capabilities - Half Check (more TBD)
-Hi-Level INPUTS - Check (for possible OEM source/warning chimes/NAV voice integration?)
-3 Sets of Preamp Outputs (F/R/Sub) -Check (no mention of Max Voltage tho')
-USB DAC - Check (to support Hi-Res Digital audio files directly from Smartphones & Tablets)
-Front & Rear USB inputs for Thumbdrive/HDD/SSD Media Storage - Check
-Remote 12v Trigger Output - Check
-Steering Wheel Control Remote Input - Check
-ACC Illumination/Dimmer connection - Check
-Power Antenna lead

The White Paper/User Manual for this unit state,

"When the Optical connection is made: The Volume controls on the Unit and the REMOTE COMMANDER do not work. Subwoofer, Pos Custom, EQ10 Preset, and DSEE-HX, Balance, Fader are automatically set to [OFF]. No sound is output while Native DSD Playback is performed via the USB micro-B port." Hint

So as subterFUSE stated, you will need a Master Volume Control on your DSP.

The "Remote Commanders" are listed as the RM-X261 or RM-X262.

PREAMP OUTPUT SPECS:

Audio output terminals (front, rear, sub)
S/N Ratio: 117dB (1kHz)
Frequency response: 20 Hz - 90kHz
Total Harmonic Distortion: Less Than 0.007%
High level input terminal (3 V – 12 V)

There is a Power Antenna lead listed as well.
There is a REM out and Illumination lead.

The AM/FM Tuner section Does Not list any HD Tuner capability. 

I'm interested to know why it might need a "Large Size Power Input"??? Hmm. Rated Power Consumption is listed as 10A, and requires a 15A fuse.

Still would really like to know if this has a Removable Faceplate? I'm guessing no, since there are so many connection ports on the faceplate.

Only thing missing is a shiny Copper Chassis! 

I was hoping that the power output of the new 4-Channel XM-GS4 Amplifier would be higher than 70w x 4 (CEA rated). There is also a XM-GS100 Monoblock amplifier but didn't see any specs for it yet.



jtaudioacc said:


> a sony rep said, more than 1k, less than 2k.


Insiders say that it will be much much less and surprisingly affordable, but I'm not quite sure that I believe it yet.  However, look at the pricing of the associated speakers, sub, and amplifiers as an indication. The XM-GS-100 and XM-GS400, which looks identical to the new XM-GS4 amp, can both be had for less than $200 on Amazon. The XS-GS1621 6.5" components can be bought at Crutchfield for less than $145. Would they really price this source unit so much higher than the associated amps and speakers that they have included as "the system"???

.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

bbfoto said:


> Insiders say that it will be much much less and surprisingly affordable, but I'm not quite sure that I believe it yet.  However, look at the pricing of the associated speakers, sub, and amplifiers as an indication. The XM-GS-100 and XM-GS400, which looks identical to the new XM-GS4 amp, can both be had for less than $200 on Amazon. The XS-GS1621 6.5" components can be bought at Crutchfield for less than $145. Would they really price this source unit so much higher than the associated amps and speakers that they have included as "the system"???
> 
> .


Good points, all. Like you I'm hoping that this unit has a street price much less than MSRP. IMO, anything more than $800 would be way off the mark. It'll be really interesting what the Sony DSP is going to cost.


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

bbfoto said:


> I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with the above response. My wording may not have been the best, or I'm probably just too tired to comprehend anything right now, LOL.
> 
> I have No Doubts that this Sony will be an absolutely fantastic-sounding source unit. The DAC chips and OP-Amps are some of the best available, and one of the few that support DSD. And I'm sure that Sony has implemented the supporting circuitry exceptionally well in order to extract the best possible performance from all of this digital electron and analog output stage goodness!
> 
> ...


ESS Dac! I never see this Dac in sony home audio hi res dac, only Oppo use this kind of stuff. I want to see the internal parts! Look at the HA-1 preamp/dac/headphone amplifier. The HA-2 looks great an is portable.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Oh also, the heavy gauge power connection is because I read somewhere last month that the unit is going to have a 400x2 internal Class-D amplifier. Hopefully it will be defeatable.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

boricua69 said:


> ESS Dac! I never see this Dac in sony home audio hi res dac, only Oppo use this kind of stuff. I want to see the internal parts! Look at the HA-1 preamp/dac/headphone amplifier. The HA-2 looks great an is portable.


Yes, the Oppo HA-1 is one of the devices that I have that use the ESS Saber32 DACs, and it sounds pretty [email protected] good, though my Audio-gd HP amp/DAC/balanced preamp with the Sabre chip sounds even better IMO. 

The ESS DAC chip that's in the Sony unit looks like one of the smallest components on the PC boards, LOL...by itself it doesn't "look" impressive at all.



slowsedan01 said:


> Oh also, the heavy gauge power connection is because I read somewhere last month that the unit is going to have a 400x2 internal Class-D amplifier. Hopefully it will be defeatable.


I'm not so sure about that...

1. There are no connections shown on the back of the unit that look to be capable of that type & amount of output.

2. There are some expanded photos showing all of the guts and isolated/layered PC boards inside the chassis. None of these individual PC boards look like they would be high-output amp circuitry.

3. With the internal layout that is shown, there doesn't look like there would be any more available space for this type of amp board. And that much output would require A LOT of thermal heat dissipation in that tiny chassis buried in your dash and would definitely require a fan, which isn't shown in any of the internal pics.

4. The Spec Sheet shows the nominal power consumption as 10 amps, with a 15 amp fuse required. I don't think that would support 400w x 2 in addition to what the source unit needs on its own. And why would they feature the new outboard amplifiers (XM-GS4 & XM-GS100) on the product page? And that stand-alone XM-GS4 4-Channel amp is only rated @ 70w x 4 @ 4-Ohms (CEA rating).

5. I doubt that Sony would opt to include an internal amplifier at all because this seems to be a "pure Hi-Res audio Source Unit" and they have never included built-in amps in any of their other Flagship Mobile ES Head Units.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

View attachment 90201
View attachment 90209


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

I can't find the article that I read about the internal amplifier right now. It did exist and perhaps was included in the specs of pre production model that was shown at CES. No doubt, this production spec I think is better for not having a built in amp.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

slowsedan01 said:


> I can't find the article that I read about the internal amplifier right now. It did exist and perhaps was included in the specs of pre production model that was shown at CES. No doubt, this production spec I think is better for not having a built in amp.


Ahhh...maybe they decided to scrap the internal amp, but all of the other tooling and parts had already been produced, including the power input connector and rear panel cutouts, so they just decided to roll with that same HD power connector?


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> View attachment 90201
> View attachment 90209


Thanks for the pics!


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

Babs said:


> Well aaaaaalllllllrighty then!
> My interest is now significantly increased.


Wait a second! No optical input!!


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

boricua69 said:


> Wait a second! No optical input!!



No optical in. The inputs are USB.


There is an optical output, however.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> No optical in. The inputs are USB.
> 
> 
> There is an optical output, however.
> ...


Wow, no optical input! But have hi level input!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> a sony rep said, more than 1k, less than 2k.



Hmmm. Let's see. DSP Pro, Director, Airport Express or HDMI to Toslink extractor. Let's do the math. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Yep, DIY wins. Then iPad dash kit.. Looks like money. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

it's a source unit.

source, means you can get the tunes right off the storage, right?

let's not worry about optical inputs at this point, I think having the High Res files in the connected flash USB or streamed in on the Bluetooth should be plenty of connectivity for most users.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

and if it bombs like the iPod connector 30 pin dock, DSP system that was originally several hundred dollars, we can suck the Crutchfield liquidation tit and get this high-protein source for 20% of retail or possibly less...

I have to expect that the market for these is great enough to give it a run but I also believe a lot of people will not see the gains from high res media until other companies have pushed lower cost units through the discount channels.

Like everything that comes out as a first to the market type item, it is overbuilt and filled with technologies that will be either superseded or phased out due to costs and economies of scale on mid-level bean counter cost ratios.


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

cajunner said:


> it's a source unit.
> 
> source, means you can get the tunes right off the storage, right?
> 
> let's not worry about optical inputs at this point, I think having the High Res files in the connected flash USB or streamed in on the Bluetooth should be plenty of connectivity for most users.


Maybe for you is OK, years ago i tested my eclipse 55090 via optical to Nad Dac M51 and Cambridge Dac magic plus. Also tested Oppo top of the line in analog mode direct to amps and have a lot of fun. But that's me.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Definitely an interesting piece and a move in the right direction for Sony. (Not sure about the super tweeters.  ) Like so many others though, I'll wait and see what street prices actually look like. One nice thing though is that if the price is right, I should be able to pick one up at Walmart while I'm making a diaper run for my youngest son.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

when Sony does their statement pieces, they really go all out and this deck appears to be the same thing.

I have one of the Sony XES system changers, and it's a heavy, overbuilt piece with high end bits inside, (for the time) and optical out. Even the old DiscJockey was a heavy piece with experimental technologies, (compression, anyone?) as the first CD changer for the automotive, I believe?

If you look at their record producing products with "first out" status, they go overboard on the heavy duty nature of the product, and this deck appears to be no exception to that rule.

so even as people gasp at the MSRP of it, there will be something special, something they won't be able to carry over to the 2nd gen models and beyond, that will make this unit extra special for collector types. I can see the heavy duty build parts going bye-bye, lightening up the weight of this "deck" for normal users, and when they slip that class D amp that's in the XB100BT into this thing they are going to have to move some stuff out and consolidate the boards.

People will want this deck for the same reasons they want the copper-plated chassis decks of the eighties/nineties. What I find funny is that the biggest detractor of their older units, the display fumble with bad visibility that made people switch out in droves, they fumble here with a bunch of faceplate filled with aluminum and not display area.


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

How are you guys going to get your high res files out to the car? I have 250 SACD's and Audio DVD's and can't figure out how to get the SACD/DVD layer onto an iPod or a stick. At present I am listening to them on my Oppo 103/Oppo Headphone Amp and Oppo headphones. I wish Sony would re-release their old SACD players, maybe with a universal player built in. JPS


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

jpswanberg said:


> How are you guys going to get your high res files out to the car? I have 250 SACD's and Audio DVD's and can't figure out how to get the SACD/DVD layer onto an iPod or a stick. At present I am listening to them on my Oppo 103/Oppo Headphone Amp and Oppo headphones. I wish Sony would re-release their old SACD players, maybe with a universal player built in. JPS



Can you not place them on a removable hard drive via usb...


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

jpswanberg said:


> How are you guys going to get your high res files out to the car? I have 250 SACD's and Audio DVD's and can't figure out how to get the SACD/DVD layer onto an iPod or a stick. At present I am listening to them on my Oppo 103/Oppo Headphone Amp and Oppo headphones. I wish Sony would re-release their old SACD players, maybe with a universal player built in. JPS



Can't you rip those discs via XLD? I feel reasonably confident you can.

You won't be able to store them on an iPod unless you convert them to 24/48 resolution or lower, and use a format that's compatible.

FLAC would be a better choice since it will support up to 24/192.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

jpswanberg said:


> How are you guys going to get your high res files out to the car? I have 250 SACD's and Audio DVD's and can't figure out how to get the SACD/DVD layer onto an iPod or a stick. At present I am listening to them on my Oppo 103/Oppo Headphone Amp and Oppo headphones. I wish Sony would re-release their old SACD players, maybe with a universal player built in. JPS


Check out this thread for SACD. Look at post #2435 on the page below by "ted-b"...he is the OP and there are also links in his signature. It's not easy but since you have so many SACDs it might be worth it. I think that there is also someone starting to provide this service...read through the thread below.

SACD ripping using your PS3 (part 2) - Page 98

I have rip'd my DVD-Audio discs using Foobar2000 and some plug-ins IIRC. It's been a few years but I'm fairly certain that's what I used. But the XLD program that subterFUSE mentioned will work for the DVD-Audio rips as will "DVD Audio Extractor". I think dbpoweramp will do it as well on Windows platform.


http://www.dvdae.com/dvdae

Good luck.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

bbfoto said:


> Check out this thread for SACD. Look at post #2435 on the page below by "ted-b"...he is the OP and there are also links in his signature. It's not easy but since you have so many SACDs it might be worth it. I think that there is also someone starting to provide this service...read through the thread below.
> 
> SACD ripping using your PS3 (part 2) - Page 98
> 
> ...




I was correct. You can rip SACD with XLD on Mac, and convert it to almost any other format.

XLD rip DSD


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Dunno if you guys saw this or mentioned it..
On this deck "High-quality Bluetooth® streaming via LDAC
Get the best from your Bluetooth® connection, courtesy of LDAC."

So googlin' LDAC, I got this.
Sony Global - LDACâ„¢: High quality wireless listening
For you bit-rate guru's to chew on. 

So depending on what the optical output will send in a "wired" connect between this Sony and outboard DSP toslink input, the bluetooth in looks like a bangin' way to feed a DSP wireless, that _might even be better_ than the HEC BT module receiving BT from device directly into DSP. I dunno.. and don't claim to know. Just throwing up the topic.

However, as searching someone mentioned what devices support it, if that's the case and only Sony stuff's will feed it LDAC, that's a deal killer right there.


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> I was correct. You can rip SACD with XLD on Mac, and convert it to almost any other format.
> 
> XLD rip DSD



Thank you, I will try it. J


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

subterFUSE said:


> I was correct. You can rip SACD with XLD on Mac, and convert it to almost any other format.
> 
> XLD rip DSD


That is AWESOME! 

EDIT:

Errrr...wait. That says that it will Open and CONVERT the DSD .dsf, .dff, and .iso FILES to other formats. But First, you must have some way to EXTRACT that information from the SACD disc and save it to an .iso/.dsf/.dff file that can then be played or CONVERTED.

AFAIK, XLD cannot do this because ALL available SACD disc readers/players/CD-ROM drives and circuitry will not output or extract DSD DIGITAL bitstream/data due to Sony's DRM/Copyright protection. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Just Google Search "SACD Ripping" and see what you find.

Check out these threads and web pages. Maybe start at the last page of the forum thread and work your way back....

http://sacd-ripper.blogspot.com/

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/funding-making-sacd-ripping-available-through-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-22124/

Further discussion of this topic should be moved to a new thread.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Teamwork!!!!


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

bbfoto said:


> That is AWESOME!
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys. I was hoping to not have to pay (again) for my hi res music if I went to a pono player or the new sony walkman. I guess I will keep searching ebay for a sony car sacd deck. JPS


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

subterFUSE said:


> DOH!


No worries. I had no clue about the Auto-Tune feature in the Helix DSP Pro until you posted that, LOL!



jpswanberg said:


> Thanks for the help guys. I was hoping to not have to pay (again) for my hi res music if I went to a pono player or the new sony walkman. I guess I will keep searching ebay for a sony car sacd deck. JPS


Yeah, I'm guilty of breaking my own rules about being OT, but I think some of this info relates to the potential use of this Sony RSX-GS9. 

So jpswanberg, keep an eye on this blog. It seems that this guy is very close to making this SACD Ripper a reality:

http://sacd-ripper.blogspot.com/

I did read somewhere that Sony and maybe other labels might be re-releasing their SACD titles and making them available as DSD downloads. But yeah, that would mean paying for all of your SACD music again! 

Be sure to watch the YouTube reviews and read online reviews before you pickup one of the newer Sony Walkman digital PMPs. I would probably go for the new FiiO X5 II, or even an iBasso DX90 instead. 

Do you have a decent 24/96 capable sound card or audio interface that will work with your Mac or PC? You could simply use the free Audacity program to digitally record your 2-channel SACDs from the RCA output of your BDP-103 to a 24/96 bitrate PCM lossless file. That way you could have very clean files that you could put on a USB Thumbdrive or portable HDD/SSD to plug into the Sony RSX-GS9.

If not, you could borrow my Zoom H6 portable digital recorder and connect the RCA analog outputs of your BDP-103 to the Line Input of the Zoom H6 and record each SACD disc at up to 24/96 lossless if you wanted to.

No, either method would will not be a direct digital copy, but it would produce VERY clean digital files from your 2-channel SACD discs that you could then use in the car system with the Sony HU. I doubt that you would be able to tell the difference in a double-blind A/B/X test. 

The main drawback is that you would have to record all of your SACD discs in Real-Time, and then manually separate, name, and tag all of the individual tracks and files in Audacity, Foobar 2000, dbpoweramp or another program. 

But all you would need is a decent sized SDXC card for the Zoom H6 and a stereo L/R RCA to 3.5mm stereo miniplug cable...and a lot of time to do this, LOL.

I also have a Ayre C-5xe MP universal disc player and a high-end studio recording audio interface with much better A/D conversion that would produce a "cleaner" recording or digital file than the H6. But the H6 does pretty well using its Line Input, it's just its built-in mic preamps that are mediocre.

Just throwing out some options as it would be a waste to not be able to listen to your SACDs in the car. 

Either way, this Sony RSX-GS9 is looking more and more compelling!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

jpswanberg said:


> Thanks for the help guys. I was hoping to not have to pay (again) for my hi res music if I went to a pono player or the new sony walkman. I guess I will keep searching ebay for a sony car sacd deck. JPS


IMHO, Sony really should offer a "Trade-In" program for all SACD discs when you buy this RSX-GS9! You send them your actual SACD disc and they provide a Download Link for the DSD .dsf or .dff files! ...like that will ever happen. 


Regarding DVD-Audio, Alpine did make a series of Single DIN CD/DVD head units that will play DVD-Audio discs, as do the Status #F1 head units. The DVA-series had a digital Toslink Optical Output and the F#1 Status head units transfer this signal via a 1394 Firewire cable into the F#1 Status processors.

I think that the DVA-9861 was the most popular non-#F1 unit that could do this, but IIRC the DVA-9965 and DVA-9860 could as well. They were all quite slow at loading/accessing/reading the discs, though.

Here's some basic info about the Alpine DVA-9861 DVD/CD Head Unit with Optical Digital Out...

- 3 sets of 4V pre-amp outputs
- Toslink optical digital output
- controls PXA-H701 processor via Ai-Net
- BBE Processing
- Built in amp 17x4
- Plays DVD (video and audio), CD (audio including MP3 on CD)


And I have to admit that I did actually put some thought a while back into how I could power and install the Oppo HA-1 in my dash, LOL. It would look A LOT like this Sony unit, but about double the size and with a much better display!

It's got a multitude of Digital Inputs, USB DAC & direct iPhone/iPod input, and built-in Apt-X BT. But no Digital Output. Though it does come with an IR remote and there are also Android and iOS Smartphone & Tablet apps to control the HA-1.  You get the ESS Sabre32 DAC goodness for DSD, Balanced & Unbalanced PreOuts, and a Class A Balanced headphone amp. Yes it runs HOT, hence the vent on the top!  Too bad it's 10" x 3.6" x 13.1".


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

I adore my Oppo HA-1. When I get my music room back (after daughter/grandson move out) it will take the place of my Manley Labs Pre-Amp. My next step is to burn the cd layer of my hybrid sacd in its cd format and then load that onto an iPod. My SACD only files I will burn using my old phillips cd burner (Oppo 103 - RCA Cables - Phillips). Will I hear the difference? Who knows, but it will make me feel better . JPS


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

**** it. 

I am getting one. Can't get rid of the chub.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

nice!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Salami said:


> **** it.
> 
> I am getting one. Can't get rid of the chub.



Go man go!!!

Question is when, where and how much. 
Witness ye all who venture nigh. Thine next forum woodie is upon us. 

That is until Andy graces us with a working DSP prototype. Then ye shall rejoice for thine bets are all off and the excrements of beast and man hit the proverbial fan. LOL!


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

Babs said:


> Go man go!!!
> 
> Question is when, where and how much.
> Witness ye all who venture nigh. Thine next forum woodie is upon us.
> ...


Yep I got a chub for it. Getting it as soon as it comes out. How much and where to be determined but I have a feeling this is going to be a lot cheaper than most are thinking.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Salami said:


> Yep I got a chub for it. Getting it as soon as it comes out. How much and where to be determined but I have a feeling this is going to be a lot cheaper than most are thinking.



I certainly hope so. I suspect it may be a significant step ahead in car source units. While I'm underwhelmed by the processing ability, I'm hopeful in the pure fidelity Sony claims. I'll guarantee one thing.. I'll wanna get a nickel tour and hear it. 


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

bbfoto said:


> IMHO, Sony really should offer a "Trade-In" program for all SACD discs when you buy this RSX-GS9! You send them your actual SACD disc and they provide a Download Link for the DSD .dsf or .dff files! ...like that will ever happen.
> 
> 
> Regarding DVD-Audio, Alpine did make a series of Single DIN CD/DVD head units that will play DVD-Audio discs, as do the Status #F1 head units. The DVA-series had a digital Toslink Optical Output and the F#1 Status head units transfer this signal via a 1394 Firewire cable into the F#1 Status processors.
> ...


Good, i did that with Cambridge Dac Magic Plus, Oppo player, Nad M51, etc..
Let see the MSRP on this sony deck. If the price is higher than Oppo HA-1, I quit! I prefer to install a home audio Dac/Preamp, like Audiolab M-Dac.


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## organic.freq (Sep 12, 2015)

just found this thread. sorry to derail.

alternative for sacd / hires fans not looking into a head unit replacement:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-pc-forum/218121-future-mac-ipad-build.html


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Offical press releases:

Sony Electronics Delivers Hi-Res Audio to the Car -- SAN DIEGO, Sept. 22, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --

TL; DR: "Today, Sony Electronics announced a new in-car High-Resolution Audio (Hi-Res Audio) line-up for the US market which includes the RSX-GS9 digital media player ($1,499), the XM-GS4 4-channel amplifier ($299), and the XS-GS1 Super tweeter ($199)."

So, there you have it, MSRP of $1,500. Hopefully will have a street price of less than $1k or this deck will flop IMO. How does it make sense that they would price this deck so disproportionately higher than the other components?


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Well Well Well!!!!!!


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Im not really understanding their price structure on this at all.


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Gosh, What were they smoking??


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## CactoesGel (Dec 24, 2013)

Well this is disappointing news. I was really hoping to get one.

Waiting for the Xperia Z5 capable of High-Res and has LDAC Bluetooth.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

All depends.. How dang good it sounds, How nice the integration (phone NFC BT stuffs, etc), How slick the device UI is as it appears to be designed for control by device, How slick the optical out works with outboard DSP's etc. If there's value there in that stuff, SQ and interface being the foremost, then yeah I could see something in or near the range of the 99RS. 

Question is will this thing run optical correctly with all the major DSP's? Are there compatibility issues bit-rate, khz etc? If so, party on and find a spot in dash for that iPad.


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

slowsedan01 said:


> Offical press releases:
> 
> Sony Electronics Delivers Hi-Res Audio to the Car -- SAN DIEGO, Sept. 22, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --
> 
> ...


Wow! More expensive than Oppo BDP-105D!


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Street Price is always less than MSRP.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

slowsedan01 said:


> Offical press releases:
> 
> Sony Electronics Delivers Hi-Res Audio to the Car -- SAN DIEGO, Sept. 22, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --
> 
> TL; DR: "Today, Sony Electronics announced a new in-car High-Resolution Audio (Hi-Res Audio) line-up for the US market which includes the RSX-GS9 digital media player (*$1,499*), the XM-GS4 4-channel amplifier ($299), and the XS-GS1 Super tweeter ($199)."


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

slowsedan01 said:


> Offical press releases:
> 
> Sony Electronics Delivers Hi-Res Audio to the Car -- SAN DIEGO, Sept. 22, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. For that price I would rather try to install the huge Oppo HA-1 in my dash...it would have a much nicer display, LOL. 

I never did see if the RSX-GS9 has a removable faceplate? If not, I probably would not want it installed in a typical dash location where it could be easily seen by prying eyes. And I'm not one that would consider heavily tinting the front side windows.

Also, I haven't checked yet, but I haven't seen a photo or description of the included Remote Control that is mentioned in the specs. Has anybody else seen this???

My current setup using the Galaxy Note II or Note 8.0 with the UAPP app into the SMSL X-USB to Toslink/Coaxial converter to the Helix DSP provides just about everything that this would offer. I still have a built-in hardware FM Tuner in the Note II, just no AM, but you can always stream a bazillion Radio Stations with iHeart or Tune-In radio apps. And I have kept my factory head unit as an AUX source into the DSP PRO so I still have all of the OEM functions if wanted/needed.

I'm not sure that playback of DSD in a vehicle would offer any real advantages besides taking a sh!t ton of media storage space. You can convert DSD to Hi-Res PCM and play those files if you really want to.

We'll just have to sit back and see what the actual Street Price ends up at. As an example, the $1400 MSRP Pioneer AVIC-8100NEX is available on Amazon for just under $900.

If this unit is really easy and intuitive to use in a moving vehicle, and all of the features work as promised, then I would probably be willing to drop as much as $650 USD on this. But it would have to be just about perfect at that price. For my use and IMO it's just not worth any more than that.

If anybody finds a Car Audio Shop or Big Box retailer that has this unit on a Demo Board, please post that information, as I'd still like to give it a whirl and see how it works in real-world handling, with both the remote and the SongPal app.

But you could probably determine what its operation would be like by perusing the Sony "SongPal" app at a Hi-Fi shop using Sony's Home Audio equivalent Hi-Res Players.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Good luck finding this beeyatch on a demo board. Hehe


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Babs said:


> Good luck finding this beeyatch on a demo board. Hehe


Yeah, wishful thinking Fo Sho!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Babs said:


> Good luck finding this beeyatch on a demo board. Hehe
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk





bbfoto said:


> Yeah, wishful thinking Fo Sho!


But Walmart is an authorized Sony retailer. I'm sure it will be available to demo there. Just a few feet down from the motor oil, antifreeze and women's under garments.


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

slowsedan01 said:


> So, there you have it, MSRP of $1,500. Hopefully will have a street price of less than $1k or this deck will flop IMO. How does it make sense that they would price this deck so disproportionately higher than the other components?


It doesn't make any sense. None. 

The Pioneer P99 was surrounded by equipment in the $1k range. It also has full DSP and a CD transport. The RSX-GS9 is surrounded by what looks like middle end equipment. To me it also does not have all of the goods to command a $1500 asking price. It SHOULD have every bell and whistle for that price. 

Are we positive the $1499 is not a typo? Maybe it was supposed to be $499? I can only find the one single press release stating price. Nothing else so far. If the price stands it is IMHO going to be an epic fail.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

For that price it needs an SSD drive for internal storage and video output for external displays. This has neither.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

That sounds about right when you look at their new walkman offerings. Not that I agree with it, just saying the price sounds about right for their pricing structure.


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## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

I had heard about it being around that price point.

All because of the audio format i'm sure. Super hi rez, in your car, driving down the freeway...


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

With a USB port on front, and an ugly USB cord hanging out plugged into an iPod sitting upside down in your cupholder. Then you have to browse for music on the iPod itself because this thing doesn't have a display capable of showing a playlist. 

I swear, do these companies ever put any thought into how these devices should be interfaced with?


Fail # 1 - This is a DIN unit. How many cars are even left on the road that have a removable head unit? Even the most basic new cars today have head units that integrate into the HVAC and other essential car functions. The last car that I had which actually had DIN slots in the dash was a 1994 Acura Legend coupe.

Fail # 2 - No external display output. If you have to remote-locate this device in the trunk or a glove box, how are you going to view the display?

Fail # 3 - Can't browse playlists on the display. It's too small. Must view playlists on the device itself. My car already has an iPod connector, and it allows me to browse music on the car's video display. I can see song info, artwork, tags, playlists, etc... And I control it all with my car's media controls. The iPod stays in the armrest. No need to touch it. And I have an optical out to my DSP. What does this device offer that my car does not already do better? A better DAC is useless if you are running Optical.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yep. It'll last a year. 


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

Babs said:


> Yep. It'll last a year.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Which then leaves us the opportunity to snatch these up on clearance. I predict there will be waves of these available on closeout when Sony finally realizes that they dun goofed with the pricing. Mark me down for one in 2-3 years, unless something more appetizing comes along. In the process of doing all this research I did read a few articles that Sony is licensing the tech to Pioneer and Kenwood, so there's potential for one of the other brands to offer these capabilities.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I believe they goofed more by the design of the thing.

The DSP biz is exploding for a reason. You can put a doggone Helix/H800/3sixty/6to8 in any rolling vehicle with 12V. 

By this thing being a head unit, it severely limits it's market to guys who 1) want uber high-end, meaning they can probably afford it, but 2) have a din dash. Guys who have that level of coin and tastes with din dashes.. hmmm. Not to sound prejudging but I imagine that's kinda far and few between compared to the same level of enthusiast who's typically rocking a Mobridge from OEM to their Helix Pro, present company implicated.

So just from a marketing standpoint Sony would have done better to integrate these wireless and DSD and audiophile component goodies into a unique offering of full-blown DSP. The real challenge (read that as hole in the market) is getting from phone to that great processing without the jitterbugs and extra conversions in the signal chain. IMO, the market is done with looking for another uber-1-din.

Seeing some weird stuff Sony's tried in the past, I'm kinda not surprised though. Great resources. Poor poor vision in execution of those technologies.

Prediction: 
The next great thing will be a better executed player from SSD (with a good OS), built into and sending directly to the DSP itself. One box. Then a device (phone or tablet) simply becomes the controller. Or an optional 2-din touch controller for those who can. 

Well.. Maybe that's a hope rather than a prediction.

Imagine something like the Helix DSP Pro with full 2-din touchscreen controller available with AM/FM tuner, BT and all that stuff, but also DSP volume and tuning UI. Also with an APP control option for the guys who can't easily swap a 2-din. Within the actual DSP once sync'd with device, it stores and plays the media directly and cleanly to DSP and preamp. THAT, I'd spend $1500 clams on.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

P99 anyday


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

HiloDB1 said:


> Not to mention its illegal in some states.


Here is the law in Ontario:

Distracted Driving


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

The more I look at this I realize that this HU is just a back end to Sony's SongPal app. Basically you plug or BT your phone to this unit and control source through the app. Processing and volume is controlled on the deck. 

Actually not a bad concept. I haven't tried the app so the jury is still out. Would definitely like to see something similar with built in dsp.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

teldzc1 said:


> The more I look at this I realize that this HU is just a back end to Sony's SongPal app. Basically you plug or BT your phone to this unit and control source through the app. Processing and volume is controlled on the deck.
> 
> Actually not a bad concept. I haven't tried the app so the jury is still out. Would definitely like to see something similar with built in dsp.



But the SongPal app is just an app on the smartphone or tablet, right?

So, even if the app is meant to control this thing, it still means you have to fumble around for your phone to control it.

Might as well just be using a basic iPod and operating from the click wheel.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Babs said:


> I believe they goofed more by the design of the thing.
> 
> 
> 
> By this thing being a head unit, it severely limits it's market to guys who 1) want uber high-end, meaning they can probably afford it, but 2) have a din dash. Guys who have that level of coin and tastes with din dashes.. hmmm. Not to sound prejudging but I imagine that's kinda far and few between compared to the same level of enthusiast who's typically rocking a Mobridge from OEM to their Helix Pro, present company implicated.



That's pretty much my point above. A DIN slot in a car is a holdover from the 1980s and 90s. Most cars don't use them anymore, so why build a source unit that fits a DIN slot? It's particularly puzzling when the price tag is so high that you ostensibly guarantee the target consumer isn't going to have a compatible vehicle.

Audison was a lot closer to the mark with the Bit Play HD, even though it obviously has some major limitations. But the Bit Play does have an internal SSD for storage of music, and it has video outputs for displaying the GUI for the device.




> So just from a marketing standpoint Sony would have done better to integrate these wireless and DSD and audiophile component goodies into a unique offering of full-blown DSP.


Sony is not a company that I would ever expect to produce a good DSP, so I prefer that they focus on a source unit. I'm happy with my Helix.




> The real challenge (read that as hole in the market) is getting from phone to that great processing without the jitterbugs and extra conversions in the signal chain. IMO, the market is done with looking for another uber-1-din.


Yup. One of the biggest challenges in my car has been finding a way to store my music in the highest-quality formats available, while supporting a digital output to my DSP and supporting the critical features I need.

Specifically:

1. Lossless audio formats.
2. Enough storage space to hold my library in lossless formats.
3. With an easy-to-use interface.
4. Supports artwork, tags, browsing, and gapless playback.


My Audi came with an internal hard drive for storing a music "jukebox." But the jukebox only supports MP3. It can't even play WAV! 

It also has SD card slots, but again.... only supports MP3.

The Bit Play was a really promising idea, but it falls short on #3 and #4 above. The interface is handled via wireless remote controls, which actually isn't that bad. But there is no resume play feature, so every time you turn off the car you lose your spot on the album that's playing. It also does not support artwork or tags on FLAC files, nor does it support Gapless Playback on any format.

That means my best option for playing the majority of my music collection is a trusty old iPod. My car's iPod interface has all 4 of the above features. The only downside is that my Audi MMI does not accept digital inputs, so the iPod itself must convert D/A with the internal DAC and then the MMI converts A/D. I have an optical out from the MMI into my DSP, but I really wish I could eliminate those 2 conversions from the iPod solution. But gapless playback is more important than losing those 2 conversions. I can't handle 2 second pauses in the middle of gapless albums. 




For 2016, Audi has added FLAC support to the MMI. So at least I know that in my next car I will be able to use lossless files with the OEM source.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> For 2016, Audi has added FLAC support to the MMI. So at least I know that in my next car I will be able to use lossless files with the OEM source.


And I bet everything has changed and no chance in Hades of retro-fitting I bet. And if I know you, you've already looked into it. 

Darn 3rd world problems!!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> But the SongPal app is just an app on the smartphone or tablet, right?
> 
> So, even if the app is meant to control this thing, it still means you have to fumble around for your phone to control it.
> 
> Might as well just be using a basic iPod and operating from the click wheel.


True, but I do that anyway. For some reason my Alpine 149BT stopped controlling my iPhone 5 that I use as an ipod. I do hear your point though. Much easier to control in a car with real buttons and tactile feel over a touch screen.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

subterFUSE said:


> Sony is not a company that I would ever expect to produce a good DSP, so I prefer that they focus on a source unit. I'm happy with my Helix.


Are you serious? Sony practically created the high-end processor category with the XDP-210, the XDP-4000X, and the ES and XES systems. Sony can't produce a good DSP? GTFOH with that silliness. They can, they just don't want to.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Sony basically invented digital everything, starting with the Compact Disc, if you believe everything you hear...

and I have to imagine if they wanted to make a statement with High Res, that they could do a lot higher than 1499 MSRP on their 1st Gen deck.

It would be cool if they could have produced those OLED TV's in larger sizes, but even at 11" it would have made a heck of a display unit for a drop-down DVD.

one of those XEL-1 went for 202 bucks on Aug 25.

that would have been sweet as a custom build-in, to go with the High Res deck in the dash.

It's not as high resolution as even older iPads, but it's OLED and special in it's own right.

at 2499 retail, to go with this deck at 1499 retail, for 4K you could have an early adopter wet dream, haha...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

That's the second downside to this piece. No optical drive and it's WAY overpriced. 


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> Are you serious? Sony practically created the high-end processor category with the XDP-210, the XDP-4000X, and the ES and XES systems. Sony can't produce a good DSP? GTFOH with that silliness. They can, they just don't want to.


yeah, imo, they were ahead of everyone when that stuff came out. dsp, video, etc. then a bit later xplod.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Are you serious? Sony practically created the high-end processor category with the XDP-210, the XDP-4000X, and the ES and XES systems. Sony can't produce a good DSP? GTFOH with that silliness. They can, they just don't want to.


Absolutely!! It was in like 1991 when the XES-P1/XES-X1 came out. They set the standard for highend car audio and to my knowledge was the 1st company to do so with Pioneer's original ODR to follow shortly after. Hell, had they not think where car audio would be today without... 

I think they got the looks of this thing minus it having a touch larger screen. If they would have just put the logo on an opposing side. With the price of this thing they should have used a Pioneer Stage 4 as a target and least gave it front hi/mid/low plus sub. Or they should have gone back in time and made a hide away processor with TOS LINK and put together something with comparable specs of current processors.

Hell, they invented the market, they have the ability to give DIEHARD Sony fans what we have been missing sense the XES-Z50. Give it the Ipod / ANDROID controls with an optional indash 6 disc changer or minimum 3 disc changer. 

Though I do like the display, it would make it very difficult to set or contol an dsp/eq/ta without the use of a computer, unless they made an app for ipod or android. Which would have been pretty slick to do so with voice controls like my tablet has. 

Honestly with voice commands of tablets today, I would argue it would be safer than a normal CD player. It is almost like Sony doesn't have anyone in R&D that doesn't listen to music in their cars any longer and surely none that are audiophiles..............


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> View attachment 90201
> View attachment 90209



Surprised no one seems impressed by the stuff you don't see on the Spartan face of this thing. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Case in point
















Point being, this ain't your garden variety head unit. 


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> They can, they just don't want to.


Do you expect them to produce a high-end DSP anytime soon?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

subterFUSE said:


> Do you expect them to produce a high-end DSP anytime soon?


Nope. Not that they couldn't. They'll just use the high res head unit as a test case. When it fails, Sony will declare aftermarket high end car audio a failure and go back to Xplod. :surprised::worried:


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Nope. Not that they couldn't. They'll just use the high res head unit as a test case. When it fails, Sony will declare aftermarket high end car audio a failure and go back to Xplod. :surprised::worried:



While Audiotec-Fischer, Mosconi / Gladen and similar brands thrive. I wouldn't discount them yet. 

I do however suspect their marketing and design folks certainly don't troll around here much for the pulse of the consumer for high-end.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Well, if it has the following things I will get one:


1. Ability to install remotely, either in the trunk or in glovebox. My car does not have a DIN slot, and the head unit cannot be removed.

2. Ability to control remotely, in a fashion that is reasonably intuitive and ergonomic. If the unit is mounted remotely, it obviously needs a method of control. This ability extends not just to play/pause, track forward and back, but also to browse album lists.

3. Gapless Playback. Without gapless play, any audio player is only marginally useful to me.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> Well, if it has the following things I will get one:


Uh oh!! 



subterFUSE said:


> 1. Ability to install remotely, either in the trunk or in glovebox. My car does not have a DIN slot, and the head unit cannot be removed.


I imagine if you can get power and ground to it shouldn't be a problem. Probably everything else such as antenna as well. Matter of wire length.



subterFUSE said:


> 2. Ability to control remotely, in a fashion that is reasonably intuitive and ergonomic. If the unit is mounted remotely, it obviously needs a method of control. This ability extends not just to play/pause, track forward and back, but also to browse album lists.


That'll be the kicker.. I hope so. I'd bet there's a way around most of it. Speaking of. Anyone seen anything about the app capabilities other than just being another media player? Or did I miss that?



subterFUSE said:


> 3. Gapless Playback. Without gapless play, any audio player is only marginally useful to me.


Bet it does. It'd be the first head unit I've seen without it if it didn't.

I'll anxiously await that build log update.  Heck I'd help ya if I were near ya, just to mess with this Sony.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

rton20s said:


> Nope. Not that they couldn't. They'll just use the high res head unit as a test case. When it fails, Sony will declare aftermarket high end car audio a failure and go back to Xplod. :surprised::worried:


Don't forget that when it debuted, Xplod included the mobileES product as well.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Don't forget that when it debuted, Xplod included the mobileES product as well.


Sony's 12V presence really Xplod'd though.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> Don't forget that when it debuted, Xplod included the mobileES product as well.


Yeah, because the MobileES gear is what we all picture when we see the name Xplod.  

I get what you're saying though.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Yeah, because the MobileES gear is what we all picture when we see the name Xplod.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Babs said:


> Case in point
> 
> Point being, this ain't your garden variety head unit.
> 
> ...


Agree its not garden variety. I think a lot of us have been waiting on the holy grail of Source to Processor digital. The reality is that this deck could provide it, but really that's not where the benefit of it lies. If you use it for decoding files and take advantage of the hi end DAC and hopefully hi end output stage, this could be a great sounding deck. 

Usability is an open question though. I'm comfortable with using my phone / ipod as the control, but I know it's not ideal.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Babs said:


> Sony's 12V presence really Xplod'd though.





rton20s said:


> Yeah, because the MobileES gear is what we all picture when we see the name Xplod.
> 
> I get what you're saying though.





Babs said:


>


That really was the all time bonehead marketing move. That set them back at least 15 years.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

I don't know what Sony's original marketing plan for the Xplod entailed, but it does appear to be a language barrier type of thing to me, in that the people who call the shots, actually liked the moniker so much because it sets the brand apart from mundane offerings. All while watering down the internals of the products to a standard, or consumer level means and pricing that meant getting legacy buyers at the teenage level stuck to the brand.

Maybe if it was just a couple of seasons, it wouldn't have tanked the car audio side of Sony so badly.

I can understand the reluctance to abandon the branding but they would have trouble doing it another time, or doubling down on mediocre product with a catchy sales pitch to move sub-standard product through the marketplace.


The bean counters eventually kill the innovative and more expensive approach once used to define Sony as a cut above, or a superior product in a field of regulars.

Like Tektronix industrial Oscilloscopes, for instance. A standard that lasted for decades until the cheap stuff filtered in, and make the argument that such commitment to excellence is no longer necessary.


This deck is likely a marginally accepted project, Sony isn't hinging anything on it's eventual success or failure but just getting something High Res into the consumer jargon so what would have been early adopters, become normal business later on.


They have to present cheaper alternatives within 12 months of this deck's release, with all the cheaper build parts, the economies of scale will be applied and before you know it, we will have 299 MSRP on a deck that transfers 192K or 96 bit, or whatever, to the DSP of your choice.

As an aside, someone should build a bluetooth sub control into a normal cigarette lighter pull knob, that gets it's power from the cig lighter.

You wouldn't even have to wire it, it would be like servo but since bluetooth is digital, it could be a digital volume control, or much more using rotary encoder technology and several micro-switches built into it's diminutive platform.

It would be neat if it still lit a cigarette, haha...


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

Well it seems the $1499 retail price is definite and not a typo like I was hoping. The street price still remains to be seen. At this point for me the head unit is no longer an attractive choice. I feel like I just found out the girl from last night was really a tranny.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

If it sounds as good as it's built though, I'd give Sooooooooony props for attempting the craziest comeback to car audio I've seen in a while. Optical output still is my favorite part of this piece beyond all the high end internals even. 


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Makes me wonder what Alpine is holding back on. Surely they've got some wild stuff in their R&D dept.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

And Kicker Q-Class amps with built in DSP with multi-amp control by device app. 

It's been an interesting year or two in car audio. 


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Babs said:


> Makes me wonder what Alpine is holding back on. Surely they've got some wild stuff in their R&D dept.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk



I think Alpine seems to understand that the days of DIN are over. Look at the latest Nav units with the 8"+ screens and custom mounts for Chevy/GM, Honda, VW, and other popular brands.

They understand they can't just toss out a DIN unit and say: "Enjoy figuring out how the hell you're going to install that." They have released trim kits that help those owners integrate the head units into their cars.

However, there are more and more cars that don't have the option of removing the OEM head unit. The smart car audio companies should get creative with how they are going to integrate with these vehicles. Mobridge is one of the leaders in this realm. And the Audison Bit Play was a really good idea, but poorly executed.

My hope is that Apline and others will focus on modern vehicle integration because that's where the future lies, like it or not. I honestly wish I could have an Alpine NAV head unit in my car, but the MMI is just too essential to the functionality of my car to remove it.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah but if you can get digital out of OEM (and the right format support from the OEM) I'd have no care for an aftermarket. I actually detest them. They're cheap, and visually low-class looking, IMHO. Even the 99RS and many 2-dins. 

I've about decided the Tacoma is getting a slider iPad install. Might have some ridiculously expensive Sony hiding behind it though. 


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## What? (Jun 5, 2008)

Sony Sells Out of $1499 Hi Res Audio Deck | ceoutlook.com


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

What? said:


> Sony Sells Out of $1499 Hi Res Audio Deck | ceoutlook.com


"According to a representative" and "Sony’s initial shipment was reportedly in the high hundreds of units."

Take all this with a grain of salt. The "representative" didn't want their name included in the article. It reeks of Sony trying to create increased demand by over exaggerating any initial success that they may have had with pre-orders. I never saw anywhere online including Sony's site on where or how to place a pre-order and now all of the sudden they are sold out. Hmmm....


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Why would you want an optical output? The specifications of this dac supersedes anything available on the market with its DSD, FLAC etc what DSP can keep up with it without a downgrade in audio quality from the HU? 

No DSP I know of can play these bit rates? A DSP would be a downgrade in audio - would it not? 

If you install a DSP are you listening to the DSP or the HU? With a 32bit DAC and 117db SN why would you want a 24bit DAC and low res capability? What would be cool is Sony bringing out a full DSP for this unit with the same specs and parts or basic DSP functions on the HU - like TA and EQ and crossover settings will be good enough... Which I think it has..


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

well, if just 2 high end shops per STATE order 10 units for their store display and a very modest inventory to offer their high end clients, that's 1000 units.

doesn't seem outrageous or anything, since this deck redefines the category.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

I think the price indicates the quality of components used plus it's a novelty as no one else has anything else - if you want better specs you need to use a A&K AK380 at $3500..


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

It will get cheaper as the other manufacturers start copying Sony.. It's going to happen - I think a DSP version would be better as you can connect your sources directly to it and have OEM intergration - the HU version has its longevity issues as most people drive cars that can't remove the radio 

On the other hand installation in the trunk or glove box with a clever remote will work just fine - I want to use one as part of my ODR system connect it up to my AUX of the HU and use that as my digital source player - I have a double din space in my Golf Mk 5 so it's fees able - just makes usage in my next car an issue that's why it's a short term solution - for $1500 it's a 5 year investment at most - then intergration into a E92 will be the next thought process.. But I listen mostly to my IPod in my car as I use the Istreamer DAC off my ODR - quality is pretty good! But the hunger for even better is consuming me right now if I can get my IPhone to sound even better then I am game.. 

I have noticed lately that FLAC options are starting to be made available for download when a year ago it wasn't - soon you will be able to download 5.6DSD and 24/196 FLAC so that's exciting


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

slowsedan01 said:


> "According to a representative" and "Sony’s initial shipment was reportedly in the high hundreds of units."
> 
> Take all this with a grain of salt. The "representative" didn't want their name included in the article. It reeks of Sony trying to create increased demand by over exaggerating any initial success that they may have had with pre-orders. I never saw anywhere online including Sony's site on where or how to place a pre-order and now all of the sudden they are sold out. Hmmm....


This is obviously a sell-in number vs a sell-through number. And like you're saying, this is a Sony marketing guy. "High hundreds" is a very loose and relative term. Technically, it could be anywhere from 500 units to 999 units. 

It will be interesting to see what sell-through looks like after the December release. Will we see quick adoption by the audiophile crowd, or will most of these end up as shop demo units and dust collectors? I'm hoping for a quick and early adoption just to get Sony (and the rest of the industry) moving in a direction that focuses on sound quality.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

I would venture to say that most consumers that can afford this type of deck will probably be driving cars where a DIN Head Unit swap is not possible. And for others that can swap in a DIN head unit, this REALLY needs to have a Removable Faceplate. This unit just doesn't make sense to me anymore, especially when the main "controller" will be the SongPlay app, and most locales have Hands-Free laws.

For newer cars with OEM functionality that you want to keep, use your factory HU for it's built in features and route it to the main analog or digital input on your DSP. Add a second HQ source unit for critical listening, i.e. iPad or Android device via optical converter or DAC and then straight into DSP.

And I could only see the highest-end shops in the country maybe having 1 of these in stock, and ordering others as needed. How many truly Hi-End Car Audio shops are there in the country?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I know at least one person who has ordered one.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

if anyone thinks that High Res is going away, that this is a fad like Beta v. VHS or Super 8, or something...

well, Sony does have a history of bringing the new and unproven to market, like the OLED I mentioned earlier, an 11" screen that had relatively poor resolution, not even full HD, and it came in at 2500 MSRP? Didn't sell too well, came out in early '08, and you still don't see widespread OLED yet, even though it's around sort of...

but High Res appears to be poised to become a new standard, I guess much like any of the other standards that had to be proven through sales. 

For my purposes, this deck can possibly remain a high-water mark, making it desirable and worth every penny to those few competitors that have to have it, as we have seen in the past with almost every worthwhile advance in the SQ realm.

It must be considered a success, and if production is halted based on low sales expectations on a larger run of lower cost products using the new tech in economy-of-scale assembly lines, they will never be available for cheap, and will remain a hard-to-find item.

They are built like brick ****houses, and boast numbers only seen by professional units to date so I can't see where the demand ever goes down for these if a new crop of ultra High Res is not waiting in the wings. Seriously, the cry for something other than DIN size mounts is misplaced IMHO, as a first run sort of thing. The person who enjoys early adopter items and their idiosyncratic, quirkiness and personality can find a lot to enjoy in this deck.

If I had a lot of money and a project car that had some ultimate audio platform-type stuff in it, I'd run to the nearest Sony dealer and get one of these paid for on the pre-sales list. Especially a hot-rod with a DIN slot, I'm not the "touch screen smart phone finger snail" demographic, I like a knob that I can twist and a relatively uncomplicated deal with some first class sonics behind it, and built to last longer than the average upscale product out there.

I also don't care for the changes in the marketplace that have made aftermarket units less than optimal as replacement parts, and having a screen in the car that I can play movies on is great but not necessary as part of the audio system. I can have that with a minimal investment into a tablet and mount, right? 


anyways, didn't want to write a novel about it, but it appears more and more that I'd really like to have one of these units, and that is rare with me and early adopter stuff, the other thing I'd like to have is the new class D amp built-in to the Sony deck that comes with it, maybe if they could make a 1/2 DIN amp that put out a real 100WX4 RMS and stuck it under this High Res with a fascia that complemented the deck, maybe even a combination panel or something...

haha.

High Res and a wide-bandwidth class D amp in the 1.5 DIN size, using DSP technologies that are no bottleneck to the High Res data streams, probably working off a wifi signal between a smart phone to deck wireless interface, sounds pretty good...

no cheap or easy bluetooth, but no digital scatter either, I mean I see Router/adapter combos for 25 bucks today, how hard can it be to adopt the technology so it can be built into the hardware instead of AirPlay or whatever bits that come extra?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

subterFUSE said:


> Do you expect them to produce a high-end DSP anytime soon?


They might but they also might expand it to the Japan market only... coz americans don't appreciate it  :surprised: lol 
Well most won't muster the cash to buy it - just look @ what is said in this thread... 

No one complained when Nakamichi came up with a $1500-$2000 cassette player. Denon and McIntosh just gave up too... 

Kelvin


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Can someone explain the concept of optical output to me...

I understand it to bypass the HU dac and use the DAC of the DSP? Am I correct? If so why would you want to bypass the Sony 32bit DAC with a higher SNR than any DSP on the market apart from the F1 DSP.. 

Having a full DSP is an advantage but do we really need 31 bands? If your using 31bands in your system you may have serious issues or you simply don't know how to tune? A 10 band EQ should be good enough as long as you can select any frequency to adjust - aka Zapco 

For me the internals and ability of the unit is more paramount. And output voltage is also important - you don't want a 2v unit - 10v would be nice! 

Basic DSP functions like TA crossover and EQ are good enough


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Elektra said:


> Having a full DSP is an advantage but do we really need 31 bands? If your using 31bands in your system you may have serious issues or you simply don't know how to tune? A 10 band EQ should be good enough as long as you can select any frequency to adjust - aka Zapco


Take a look at Andy's in car FR curve at speaker level and ear level and tell me how many bands you need. Minimal eq in a car is a MYTH. Any car / install / equipment etc requires TONS of eq to sound right. If you think 10 bands will cut it, you're not listening closely enough. 

Do you NEED 31 bands? Absolutely yes, as a minimum 31 band independent L/R is a must. 31 bands per channel is ideal. Of course you have to know how to use the eq. For someone less conversant eq usage and with a lower expectation, even a 7 band eq may be enough. 



Elektra said:


> For me the internals and ability of the unit is more paramount. And output voltage is also important - you don't want a 2v unit - 10v would be nice!


Another Myth.



Elektra said:


> Basic DSP functions like TA crossover and EQ are good enough


Depends on where you set the bar.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

sqnut said:


> Take a look at Andy's in car FR curve at speaker level and ear level and tell me how many bands you need. Minimal eq in a car is a MYTH. Any car / install / equipment etc requires TONS of eq to sound right. If you think 10 bands will cut it, you're not listening closely enough.
> 
> Do you NEED 31 bands? Absolutely yes, as a minimum 31 band independent L/R is a must. 31 bands per channel is ideal. Of course you have to know how to use the eq. For someone less conversant eq usage and with a lower expectation, even a 7 band eq may be enough.
> 
> ...


True .. I suppose I haven't seen or heard Andys car so I can't comment on his EQ usage. I use the Utopia kit 7 with crossblock and I must say even though I have the ODR system I have at the moment about 5 frequencies that I have adjusted - based on my RTA measurements. 

The sounds correct to me ... But I have rebuilt the boot of the car due to the mess the professional installer did.. So many rattles and squeaks - driving me mad! 

I plan to EQ left and right independents and see what the results yield... 

Higher input voltage isn't a myth - the lower the gains the less distortion and noise your bringing to the table.. In fact with my tests with Brax amps and other amps the ability to make power with little gains by bridging the amps made a audible difference - in the Brax case bridging the X2000 to make 700rms on either side of the car yielded a much smoother response with the gains flat.. If we had 10v say at flat gain that's 50rms with the gains closed in my opinion makes a difference in THD and SNR as apposed to 2v which 10rms at closed gains...

Just my 2cents based on my own personal experiences - other people may find different results


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

What I'm trying to tell you is........



Elektra said:


> True .. I suppose I haven't seen or heard Andys car so I can't comment on his EQ usage.


It's not about how Andy's car sounds. The point is that irrespective of your equipment, placement, install, treatments etc, the car takes the FR at the speaker and messes it up totally at your ear level. Scroll down on this link and the first graph is how a speaker measures 1" from the cone. Scroll down further and see how that same speaker measures at ear level. ALL cars do this for all equipment, install, location etc etc. 




Elektra said:


> I use the Utopia kit 7 with crossblock and I must say even though I have the ODR system I have at the moment about 5 frequencies that I have adjusted - based on my RTA measurements.


from point above...all speakers.......if your REW tells you that you only need to correct five frequencies, then I would measure again and again till you start to see a really messed up response. Now how many bands do you need?



Elektra said:


> *The sounds correct to me ...* But I have rebuilt the boot of the car due to the mess the professional installer did.. So many rattles and squeaks - driving me mad!


That is the main problem, you're not hearing what's right and wrong. Do you have a 2ch at home? or a good set of cans? Listen to some music you are familiar with on the ref setup, listen with your eyes closed and just focus on the sound you're hearing. Then listen to the same thing in the car. Do this for a few days and slowly you will start hearing subtle differences. As you go on you will hear more and more of what's wrong. Now do you need to use more bands on your odr?

Granted for most folks a 7-8 band eq is more than sufficient to get it to sound good for them, and that's fine. However that does not mean that a 7 band eq is enough. Those are two very different things.





Elektra said:


> I plan to EQ left and right independents and see what the results yield...


You will be pleasantly surprised. 



Elektra said:


> Higher input voltage isn't a myth - the lower the gains the less distortion and noise your bringing to the table.. In fact with my tests with Brax amps and other amps the ability to make power with little gains by bridging the amps made a audible difference - in the Brax case bridging the X2000 to make 700rms on either side of the car yielded a much smoother response with the gains flat.. If we had 10v say at flat gain that's 50rms with the gains closed in my opinion makes a difference in THD and SNR as apposed to 2v which 10rms at closed gains...


That's not quite right but will require a slightly detailed correction. Let's save time and take a shortcut....... In your signal chain from source to your ears the distortion added by each part is something like this.

Source - 0.01X
Amps - 0.01X
Speakers - 10X
Cars Environment - 1000X

You think you'd hear a difference between 0.02% vs 0.01% at the amp without correcting for the mess upstream?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

sqnut said:


> What I'm trying to tell you is........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting read.. 

How come my car measures like graph 1? (The near field calm looking graph) if the mic is at ear level at your seating position? 

I agree if your car measured like graph 2 ( the busy graph) then your going to need all of the 31 bands to help you.

Although I'll admit I don't have a decent home hifi to ref against - the joys of kids that make too much noise at home to enjoy anything. I am a pretty fussy person as to how I listen to music and my ears are very sensitive to "something not sounding right" tonal balance is very important to me. ( hence the investment in car audio)

My car competes in comps so I know it's good but it does need more work - saying that it isn't too far away either. 

Do you perhaps have Andys final RTA graph?


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Elektra said:


> Interesting read..
> 
> How come my car measures like graph 1? (The near field calm looking graph) if the mic is at ear level at your seating position?


At what resolution are you measuring? 1/3 oct will give you a much smoother response and if you're tuning for a flat response 5-7 bands will help towards that. BUT in a car you don't want a flat response.



Elektra said:


> I agree if your car measured like graph 2 ( the busy graph) then your going to need all of the 31 bands to help you.


Measure at 1/6 octave, you'll see graph 2, or something like it. On your eq you can only correct at 1/3 oct, but depending on the frequency, you can hear 'a difference' very easily at 1/12 to 1/6 oct resolution. So you need to measure and see the response at these resolutions and then correct at 1/3.



Elektra said:


> Although I'll admit I don't have a decent home hifi to ref against - the joys of kids that make too much noise at home to enjoy anything. I am a pretty fussy person as to how I listen to music and my ears are very sensitive to "something not sounding right" tonal balance is very important to me. ( hence the investment in car audio)


A decent set of cans are good enough to hear tonality. Just do the experiment I mentioned. Put on the cans, close your eyes and listen to music. Don't think about anything, just listen. Try and capture what it sounds like, how each instrument looks and sounds, the experience you feel. Do this 2-3 times a day with the same song. After a day or two, sit in the car and listen to the cans with your eyes closed. Now remove the cans and listen to the same number on the car stereo. Hear a difference. 





Elektra said:


> My car competes in comps so I know it's good but it does need more work - saying that it isn't too far away either.
> 
> Do you perhaps have Andys final RTA graph?


If you're competing then hearing the difference and correcting for it will take you much further than any random tweaking. I'm dead serious here. How can you make the sound better without first hearing what all is wrong? Assuming this is a pure SQ competition, learning to tune by ear is what will make your scores jump, instead of them staying more or less range bound.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

sqnut said:


> At what resolution are you measuring? 1/3 oct will give you a much smoother response and if you're tuning for a flat response 5-7 bands will help towards that. BUT in a car you don't want a flat response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tune to a 1/3 octave RTA...

Tuning is an art as to be able to tune properly you really need to be able to identify not only the instruments but the frequency they play at and also understand if you you increase a certain frequency it may affect something else - it's a give or take sometimes. Increase 400hz may help with a certain effectiveness of a note but may compromise the low midrange so do you leave it and accept the compromise? 

That being said I am a novice in tuning as I still need to learn which instruments are in which frequency ranges - so I need to spend time learning and memorizing the musical instruments to be able to rectify a certain issue. I think to be able to tune properly is a very difficult discipline.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Elektra said:


> I tune to a 1/3 octave RTA...
> 
> Tuning is an art as to be able to tune properly you really need to be able to identify not only the instruments but the frequency they play at and also understand if you you increase a certain frequency it may affect something else - it's a give or take sometimes. Increase 400hz may help with a certain effectiveness of a note but may compromise the low midrange so do you leave it and accept the compromise?
> 
> That being said I am a novice in tuning as I still need to learn which instruments are in which frequency ranges - so I need to spend time learning and memorizing the musical instruments to be able to rectify a certain issue. I think to be able to tune properly is a very difficult discipline.


If you're interested to know more about tuning, this is an ongoing thread on tuning. Start at post 192 onward. http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/210506-soundstage-width-8.html


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Anybody played with one yet?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

dallasneon said:


> Anybody played with one yet?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



Yes. I saw and listened to one at Finals.


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## applejax (Jan 30, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> Yes. I saw and listened to one at Finals.


I've read your comments in this thread and understand it doesn't necessarily fit your needs, but do you have any other general or SQ thoughts you could share based on this?

-d


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

applejax said:


> I've read your comments in this thread and understand it doesn't necessarily fit your needs, but do you have any other general or SQ thoughts you could share based on this?
> 
> 
> 
> -d



The SQ was outstanding.

The usability was ok. The music pretty much has to be controlled on the storage device itself. In other words, if you are using an iPad for storing the music then you will need to have the iPad within reach so you can operate the touch screen to browse music.

The head unit itself looks very sleek and modern. The only down side is having a USB cord plugged into the front of it.

If I could remove the head unit in my car then I would get this Sony deck in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I can't do that in my Audi.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Which brings the question. To compete is a disk player at all required or can you roll with USB only? ..showing my ignorance on the rules. 


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Babs said:


> Which brings the question. To compete is a disk player at all required or can you roll with USB only? ..showing my ignorance on the rules.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


You do not have to have a disc player to compete. At the competition, you will need to make an exact copy of the judge's CD and immediately transfer it to the storage medium. That means you would need to have a laptop computer with a CD drive available to do the rip.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> You do not have to have a disc player to compete. At the competition, you will need to make an exact copy of the judge's CD and immediately transfer it to the storage medium. That means you would need to have a laptop computer with a CD drive available to do the rip.


Actually, the judge or event host/co-ordinator is supposed to be the one that supplies the music for the competitor so there is no tampering with the files and all competitors are using the same music file.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> You do not have to have a disc player to compete. At the competition, you will need to make an exact copy of the judge's CD and immediately transfer it to the storage medium. That means you would need to have a laptop computer with a CD drive available to do the rip.






chefhow said:


> Actually, the judge or event host/co-ordinator is supposed to be the one that supplies the music for the competitor so there is no tampering with the files and all competitors are using the same music file.



Hmm. So that becomes an interesting question then to pursue as disks are becoming more and more obsolete. 


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

chefhow said:


> Actually, the judge or event host/co-ordinator is supposed to be the one that supplies the music for the competitor so there is no tampering with the files and all competitors are using the same music file.



Yes which is what I meant by copying the judge's CD on site.


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## applejax (Jan 30, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> The SQ was outstanding.
> 
> The usability was ok. The music pretty much has to be controlled on the storage device itself. In other words, if you are using an iPad for storing the music then you will need to have the iPad within reach so you can operate the touch screen to browse music.


Bear with me here, this unit really has me going (selling the DRZ in hopes of something like this). 

If you run off a USB drive, can you at least navigate to a folder and play from the unit itself? 

Having to deal with a separate interface is really annoying, trying to decide if it's a deal-killer.

--d


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I think Sony anticipated it as an accompanying player with their media player for couple reasons. LDAP Bluetooth interfacing and Hi-Rez capability. So their Spartan single line display to me implies it's intended for that phone app interfacing to control the unit and to run the media player app. 

Wouldn't be a deal killer for me but I think it would have served better to have a 2-din version with touchscreen interface. However, the simplicity of excluding that means it's kind of BYOD (bring your own device) which is kind of value added in itself. It also keeps the non-audio components out of the unit so it's devoted solely to the SQ delivery. 


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

If you already have a DSP that has digital input capability, the advantages I see to using this unit over an Android tablet or iPad/iDevice combined with some form of direct-to-digital output converter (I'm using the SMSL x-USB xmos), is that you gain an AM/FM Tuner, and the Sony's proprietary "Hi-Res" BT streaming protocol, and Hands-Free BT Calling (but how well does the BT calling work compared to an OEM system?). Also, via BT, can you pair BOTH your Smartphone (for Hands-Free calling) AND a separate Tablet for Music Selection via the SongPal app at the same time???

Ultimately, it all depends on if you are pleased with the features and usability of the SongPal app that controls this.

For people who do have a DIN slot to mount this in, I would like to see a removable faceplate, and ALL of the front panel connection ports duplicated on the rear of the unit.

Jon, did it look strange or out of place in the dash because the front panel sticks out so far?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Babs said:


> I think Sony anticipated it as an accompanying player with their media player for couple reasons. LDAP Bluetooth interfacing and Hi-Rez capability. So their Spartan single line display to me implies it's intended for that phone app interfacing to control the unit and to run the media player app.
> 
> Wouldn't be a deal killer for me but I think it would have served better to have a 2-din version with touchscreen interface. However, the simplicity of excluding that means it's kind of BYOD (bring your own device) which is kind of value added in itself. It also keeps the non-audio components out of the unit so it's devoted solely to the SQ delivery.


True, I believe that a built-in double-DIN touchscreen would be a MUCH safer UI, and nearly all modern cars that do have a removable HU are more set up for a double-DIN touch-screen unit rather than a single-DIN unit these days. And, a DD unit would also allow this unit to provide a Screen Mirror of your smartphone or tablet, which would allow virtual direct control of the unit with the SongPal app, and also Screen Mirroring of your smartphone's NAV app, or any other app.

For people who already have an OEM DD unit in their vehicle, I'm not sure that they would be willing to give up all of the convenience features, such as the reverse/backup camera, and then also have to use a separate device for the UI. Though this unit is clearly aimed at a select market who are probably willing to make those compromises.


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## applejax (Jan 30, 2007)

Babs said:


> I think Sony anticipated it as an accompanying player with their media player for couple reasons. LDAP Bluetooth interfacing and Hi-Rez capability. So their Spartan single line display to me implies it's intended for that phone app interfacing to control the unit and to run the media player app.
> 
> Wouldn't be a deal killer for me but I think it would have served better to have a 2-din version with touchscreen interface. However, the simplicity of excluding that means it's kind of BYOD (bring your own device) which is kind of value added in itself. It also keeps the non-audio components out of the unit so it's devoted solely to the SQ delivery.
> 
> ...


I totally appreciate the engineering decision for the display. Problem is, if you're going to give access to digital music (via USB), then you should have some level of control that takes advantage of the digital format, including playlists, random, playing by folder, etc. I use a phone for music now, and even though it's in a mount next to the radio, it's a distracting travel for my eyes to make. 

The BYOD idea gives some interesting flexibility, but I wouldn't need it if I could read music off a USB and adequately navigate it. Just give me BT streaming and/or an aux input for my Amazon music.

The reviews on the Sony music app are poor on both iOS and Android. I prefer Windows Phone, so now, in addition to my WP, I have to use another device for control. And, since the unit is already a single DIN, I don't have the room to permanently mount a phone for control. 

I wasn't able to find any information on the remotes listed for the unit, so I don't know what capabilities they have. I love the implementation of a big volume knob and the clean look, so perhaps an idea that would make me happy would be a single DIN BT display. 

This unit is sounding really close to what I've been waiting for. If they could just give integrated navigation of digital music, even if it were basic.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

If they had only done the USB on the rear. The protruding face can be fixed depending on dash mounting brackets to be more flush. 


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## applejax (Jan 30, 2007)

Babs said:


> If they had only done the USB on the rear. The protruding face can be fixed depending on dash mounting brackets to be more flush.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


there is a USB pigtail one on the rear of the unit.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

applejax said:


> there is a USB pigtail one on the rear of the unit.


Ah... Forgot that. Cool!


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Because I am lazy right now lol. Is this deck out for purchase (non pre order)? Has anyone here tested this player (link to review)?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

#1BigMike said:


> Because I am lazy right now lol. Is this deck out for purchase (non pre order)? Has anyone here tested this player (link to review)?


Nope and nope.. Can't get one. I think it's just now kinda filtering out through distribution with a handful of initial product. Right now it's just a couple notches above vaporware.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Gotcha. Its intriguing thats for sure. Not that I need to buy anything else lol.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Listed on SonicElectronix now, though not in stock. 

Sony RSX-GS9 (rsxgs9) Single DIN In-Dash Hi-Resolution Audio


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Haven't been following this thread, but from checking out that deck's offerings..... Ughhh!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> Haven't been following this thread, but from checking out that deck's offerings..... Ughhh!


Problem is, folks don't get fired up about "High-end op amp components, premium capacitors and clock generator", or "separate digital and analog boards"... People be like "has it got carplay?" or "will it run active fronts", or God forbid "will it do spotify or pandora".

The rsx-gs9 isn't about fluff.. It's just about sound. It's not a head unit to feed mid-fi speakers or mid-range amps or middle of the road installation. The guy who appreciates the 99RS but runs a Helix DSP Pro for processing would probably love the Sony.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i just really wish it had an actual screen.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Babs said:


> Problem is, folks don't get fired up about "High-end op amp components, premium capacitors and clock generator", or "separate digital and analog boards"... People be like "has it got carplay?" or "will it run active fronts", or God forbid "will it do spotify or pandora".
> 
> The rsx-gs9 isn't about fluff.. It's just about sound. It's not a head unit to feed mid-fi speakers or mid-range amps or middle of the road installation. The guy who appreciates the 99RS but runs a Helix DSP Pro for processing would probably love the Sony.



Coming from a theoretical purist's perspective, I'm sure my sentiments have been stated earlier in this thread so I'll keep it simple. 

I agree, I wouldn't care about fluff as in features that most dvd double dins strive to offer, the usual senseless bells & whistles as viewed from a strictly music standpoint. But as a high quality component deck offering high resolution, it seems to me that it's a bit too bare bones in the control department to avoid disturbing the signal path perspective. Like the P99RS, I wouldn't want anything between deck & a bare bones amp (straight gain, no crossovers, EQ boost circuits, anything) to at least have a peace in mind that the ultimate is being achieved between source & sound.

With that, at least a better crossover (since it's offering one which most basic decks have), or none at all. As a side note, have you looked at the XM-GS4 meant to go with it? Same crossovers??? Better EQ or none at all (10 band graphical?). I do believe there's other & lesser Sony units offering parametric at least. Both aspects coming from the fact that a user is going to resort to a separate DSP unit since both deck & intended amp lack the functions to go it alone unlike Pioneer's PRS series. And take those dang blasted ports off the face (OMG that's ugly!), then increase the screen at least some. I don't think that's much to ask. It's a potentially absolutely beautiful deck with the brushed blacked out look with centrally located dial. The front ports just ruins it. 


Enough of the rant, that turned out not so simple. :blush:


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

The deck looks fabulous in person. And it has been confirmed that it will support gapless playback. If I had the option of replacing my head unit, I would buy this Sony in a hot second. But alas, I can't take out the head unit in my car. 


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## What? (Jun 5, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> i just really wish it had an actual screen.


It does. Your phone.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yep. Phone UI.. Head unit.. Optical.. DSP or DSP Pro. Done.. Probably the single best SQ and tuning ability possible. 

SubterFUSE I wish you could to, so I couple sample the goodness. 


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

And maybe......an optional DIN-sized screen that it can feed - if you do have the option to remove a double-din head unit, then this and a good looking screen to either view the internal DSP options or view the file structure of the thumb drive, SD Card, or external hard drive.......

But for that to be 'realistic' - price of the source player + optional screen = $1500.....on par with the P99. 

Read some not so flattering comments about the current app for the phone to handle the access display, so if I had a better display option than the single line, and I was willing to put out the money on this + the Helix Pro.....I would be very interested.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Does anyone know what format the digital output sends?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

RSX-GS9 Specifications | Receivers & Players | Sony US

Are you guys talking about the gs9? It doesn't appear to have optical, I might be wrong though.


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## GravityDrNo (Oct 23, 2014)

WestCo said:


> Are you guys talking about the gs9? It doesn't appear to have optical, I might be wrong though.


I had the pleasure of being present for the tuning of the car that went to Finals with this HU. "Prototype, pre-production Sony HiRes radio. Audison EVERYTHING else. Optical into a Bit10d DSP, digital to a pair of Voce amplifiers, 5.1k and a Due. Driving Voce 6, 3 and tweeter up front and a single 12 in the back."


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

GravityDrNo said:


> I had the pleasure of being present for the tuning of the car that went to Finals with this HU. "Prototype, pre-production Sony HiRes radio. Audison EVERYTHING else. Optical into a Bit10d DSP, digital to a pair of Voce amplifiers, 5.1k and a Due. Driving Voce 6, 3 and tweeter up front and a single 12 in the back."


What were your impressions?


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## jasonwilliam (Dec 11, 2015)

Yeah, I'd like to know too, what were your impressions?


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

Here's a PDF pic taken from the Owner's manual:


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Digital out 

This + a Helix DSP (that has hi-res audio format processing abilites) would be a killer HU/DSP combo!


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

haakono said:


> Digital out
> 
> This + a Helix DSP (that has hi-res audio format processing abilites) would be a killer HU/DSP combo!


I don't understand why one would want to pay that sort of money for this headunit only to use optical out to a DSP. Isn't the digital to analog conversion and the associated "audiophile grade" preamp pieces the thing that makes this deck so special? Bypassing all those special electronics in it and using the optical out reduces this deck to little more than a really expensive iPod controller.

On top of that, it's already been communicated that this deck isn't even meant to be used to control the digital source. Because of the screen and limited use it provides, it'll be easier and safer to just control the music at the iPod/phone/HDD/digital music player that is storing the music. 

If you're going to use the optical out on this deck, it seems to you'd be better off just getting an optical out for whatever digital media device you're using and going straight from that to your processor of choice. 

Even putting the price of this deck aside, I just don't get who it was made for. Or maybe i'm missing something.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

^ Good observation. I would like to hear thoughts on this as well.


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## Silver Supra (Feb 15, 2008)

I'm really intrigued by this. I LOVE the brushed Aluminum finish and the display, although I wish it were larger like you guys do.

I don't like the center mounted volume knob and all the unused space on the face. I thought there would be more outputs for at least a 2-way active front. 

I'm also glad to see a new amplifier from Sony that doesn't look like it belongs at a flea market. Considering it has a cooling fan, I'm hoping it picks up where the old XES stuff left off.

Can't wait to hopefully see one and be able to play with it.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

If you are running DSD audio, then you can't use Optical. DSD is too much data for an optical cable to handle. The large part of the expense of this deck is that it has the horsepower to decode a DSD stream.


The Optical output on this deck also disables the Volume control, and all of the internal processing.




That said, the reason to use Optical is simple. If you want real DSP, this deck isn't it. It has very minimal DSP features when compared to a Helix Pro or Mosconi 6to8.

If using an external processor then the quality of the analog outputs of this Sony deck are irrelevant. Digital will be better. This is because if running analog into a DSP, then the DSP must convert from A/D before it can process the signal. It's better to just feed a direct digital signal into the DSP and avoid that A/D conversion. The DSP will then convert from D/A before it outputs to the amps.



If I had to option of using this deck in my car, which I don't, then I would connect both the analog and optical connections to my Helix Pro. I would use analog for DSD, and optical for everything else.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Good points in the posts above.

In addition, at the moment, there are very few DSD downloadable file releases compared to standard "Hi-Res" releases (and MUCH fewer compared to Redbook CD releases) that I would listen to on a daily basis or as "everyday music". 

Most of the DSD releases are spectacular as far as SQ goes, but *most* don't interest me other than being good demo tracks. However, Sony and others are pushing for more DSD releases every day. DSD is basically what the SACD format is/was, but in a downloadable digital file format instead of optical disc-based media.

The other downside, which I will admit is diminishing every day, is that DSD files are HUGH and take up a ton of storage space, and will take a really long time to download unless you have a very fast Internet connection. Though most of us have smartphones with very fast LTE download speeds.

I have spent extra $ to purchase both home and portable DAP hardware with DSD capability, but I probably have just 30 DSD releases, and only listen to a small handfull of those on a regular basis. I'm not sure it is worth it at this point. The downloads are usually quite expensive.

In addition, at this point in time VERY FEW recording engineers and/or studios have adopted or invested in DSD recording hardware and the experience or technical knowledge to use it. Maybe in 5 years when DSD is more universal (if it truly takes hold) it will make sense to invest in the format. Currently I still view it as being similar to the SACD & DVD-Audio formats and am not sure that the average consumer will spend the extra coin so that DSD becomes the standard...especially after living in the 99¢ iTunes download world for so long.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> If you are running DSD audio, then you can't use Optical. DSD is too much data for an optical cable to handle. The large part of the expense of this deck is that it has the horsepower to decode a DSD stream.
> 
> 
> The Optical output on this deck also disables the Volume control, and all of the internal processing.
> ...


This all only furthers my point. Once you take DSD out of the equation, which it already is for probably 99% of those here, and you use the optical on the deck you've turned a $1500 headunit into nothing more than a USB to optical converter. By now, anyone on this site has figured out that they can get an optical output added to ANY source they want, for less than $100. 

I totally get why someone would want optical in their system. I'm going to have it in my coming setup. And I get that this deck has no real DSP capability. I also know that there are less expensive ways to get an optical signal to a processor that would have the exact same sound quality as using this deck to do it. 

The only thing I can see this deck offering that differentiates it from anything else on the market is DSD. If DSD is something you need, then this is the deck for you. Otherwise, I don't see anything that makes this unit worth having, especially at that price point.


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

About Bluetooth streaming. 

This device uses LDAC technology claiming possibility to stream up till 96/24-files will less compression. My question is - what we get at the end? LDAC protocol has three options. The best one - Quality priority mode, but even with this the transfer rate is max 990 kbps. Typical 96/24 music file has around 2800-2900 kbps at 24bits. How such file could be tranfered without compression/downconverting? 

Anybody could explain?


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Guys before I thank about dropping coin on this unit, I just need a couple of questions answered from anyone that has demoed or used this unit. I didn't want to search thru the thread to see if this has been answered already. How hard is it to switch songs on the unit when using an ipod, also is it difficult to search for playlist, artist etc on an ipod? That little screen bothers me, I am not going to change songs or search for playlist on an ipod if the unit itself can not do that easily. My ipod stays in my glovebox at all times. Thanx!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gumbeelee said:


> How hard is it to switch songs on the unit when using an ipod, also is it difficult to search for playlist, artist etc on an ipod? That little screen bothers me, I am not going to change songs or search for playlist on an ipod if the unit itself can not do that easily. My ipod stays in my glovebox at all times. Thanx!


I get the impression they intended the unit to be controlled via their SongPal app, thus something like an iPhone, iPad or other (android) tablet/device. I suspect iPod unless it was a touch version that could run the SongPal app might be kinda obsolete for that end.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Babs said:


> I get the impression they intended the unit to be controlled via their SongPal app, thus something like an iPhone, iPad or other (android) tablet/device. I suspect iPod unless it was a touch version that could run the SongPal app might be kinda obsolete for that end.


Well I thank that is stupid. I have all of my music on my ipod. Also I can't stand that it does not have a cd player. I still would have liked to give it a shot but i have to be able to control my ipod thru the unit, so I guess I will pass.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

gumbeelee said:


> Well I thank that is stupid. I have all of my music on my ipod. Also I can't stand that it does not have a cd player. I still would have liked to give it a shot but i have to be able to control my ipod thru the unit, so I guess I will pass.


This is my, and many other's biggest complaint with this unit. The screen is almost completely useless. I will not use my ipod to switch songs, it stays in the console, and I shouldn't have to fumble around with it to change songs, it's just not a safe thing to do in a car. There is so much wasted space on the front of this thing, and they didn't even try to use if for a screen that actually worked. 

As amazing as this thing might seem, to me, it's a complete waste of money. I wouldn't replace my P99 for this, hell I wouldn't even have replaced my old 80PRS with this thing, it's useless to me.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

You can use the Play, Pause, Track Forward and Track Backwards buttons on the head unit to perform those functions. But there is no Playlist Browsing available that I am aware of, other than to use the iPod click wheel on the device itself.

When I saw a demo of this Sony head unit, it was being run via an iPad Mini with a USB cable to the front of the head unit. The music was being browsed and started from the iPad Mini.

Sound quality was spectacular, and the Sony unit itself was beautiful to see in the dash. The brushed aluminum face just pours on the classiness.

If I had a car with a DIN slot and/or a removable head unit, I would be all over this Sony piece in a heartbeat. But the lack of control for browsing playlists is a big detractor for me, as is the lack of external video output. I also like to put my iPod in the armrest and leave it there while still having control of the browsing and viewing the video on my car's OEM dash video screen. My Audison Bit Play allows for this. This Sony deck will not.

Here's what the Bit Play can do in my car currently:












If this Sony could do THAT it would solve a major installation issue for many people with modern cars with non-removable head units.


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

IMHO the future of Sony DSD for car stereo applications should be on a stand alone processor.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

robert_wrath said:


> IMHO the future of Sony DSD for car stereo applications should be on a stand alone processor.


That would make much more sense. There's also more potential growth in the processor market than there is in the single Din headunit market. But, Sony has rarely been known for doing things sensibly.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I respectfully disagree. I think a source unit makes more sense, but it needs to be a source that is more widely accessible to the modern car market.

The car audio head unit market began a steady decline when Ford introduced a Taurus sedan with a football-shaped radio. Ever since that car, many more car companies have followed suit and introduced radios that no longer fit the DIN slot template. Today, we are seeing even the most ubiquitous vehicles on the road include features that integrate the head unit with air conditioning, engine/transmission management, service info computers, and other essential car features. The removal of a car's OEM head unit is becoming nearly impossible these days.

IMO Audison had the concept right on target with the Bit Play HD, being a media player with *internal storage and a video output*. This type of device is very easy to integrate into an audio system with a factory video display. The black box can be mounted anywhere in the car, while the information can be displayed on the main video screen. There is a wireless IR remote control included with a long cable to allow the box to be in the trunk.

There are some glaring downsides to the Bit Play, but I think the overall concept is actually very good. The downsides are all software issues which can be fixed.


If Sony did a DSP that had the DSD sourcing on it, that would have to be one hell of a serious processor to get me to switch away from my Helix DSP Pro. If the DSD technology were only available on a Sony DSP, and that DSP were not of the same caliber as the Helix, it would be a no-go for me.

But a source unit can be integrated into lots of systems (whether they have Sony DSP or not) which should open up the prospective sales to a wider audience.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yep. Agreed. Thought Audison was working on a source / DSP combo also. Didn't they hint at a prototype last CES?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Maybe I missed something, but I remember reading that this unit is $1,499.99 MSRP.

It is funny to me how Crutchfield has it for $1,499.99:
Sony RSX-GS9 High-res digital media receiver (does not play CDs) at Crutchfield.com

Sonic has it for $1,499.99 as well, but they have to inflate the MSRP (list price) to make it seem like they are giving a discount. I've notice a lot of online retailers so this and I think it is very misleading......unless, of course, it is really $1,999.99.

Sony RSX-GS9 (rsxgs9) Single DIN In-Dash Hi-Resolution Audio


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> I respectfully disagree. I think a source unit makes more sense, but it needs to be a source that is more widely accessible to the modern car market.
> 
> The car audio head unit market began a steady decline when Ford introduced a Taurus sedan with a football-shaped radio. Ever since that car, many more car companies have followed suit and introduced radios that no longer fit the DIN slot template. Today, we are seeing even the most ubiquitous vehicles on the road include features that integrate the head unit with air conditioning, engine/transmission management, service info computers, and other essential car features. The removal of a car's OEM head unit is becoming nearly impossible these days.


Doesn't sound like you disagree with me much at all. The market for replacement headunits in general is declining, for all the reasons you mentioned and a few more. Think of how many single din headunits were available 10 years ago, and how many are available now. It's more difficult to replace OEM source units every year, and it's only going to get tougher with backup cameras and other safety features being mandated by the government. 

The processor market is expanding every year. I suppose I should clarify the use of the word processor. I'm not simply talking about a DSP with crossovers. I'm referencing any product that allows the integration of factory source units with aftermarket audio products. Things like factory de-EQ, signal summing, normalizing factory time alignment, and yes equalizer, crossover and time alignment abilities all qualify as processors to me. I realize not all processors offer all of these features, but in general the industry is moving in this direction. 

The market for these devices is growing everyday, where as the market for replacement headunits is shrinking. 

I would agree with you that more companies should be making something similar to the BitPlay. Audison really had a good idea there, and I'm surprised that more companies haven't ventured down that path. Although it might technically be considered as a source unit, I wouldn't lump it in the same category as a headunit. I think that's where we were really differing. 

The funny thing about Sony, is they were one of the first companies to build a really high quality digital processor. The 4000x was a great piece, and was easily a decade ahead of the rest of the market. With their r&d and manufacturing capability, I would think Sony could just take the old 4000x design, update it, add a few integration features, and really be the market leader in that category. If they added the DSD capability to it, they would have a feature that no one else in the industry could offer. Make a piece similar to the BitPlay that used replaceable solid state drives and they'd have a winner in my book. Of course, being Sony, they would completely screw the pooch when it comes to the software/gui for the processor.


----------



## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> Maybe I missed something, but I remember reading that this unit is $1,499.99 MSRP.
> 
> It is funny to me how Crutchfield has it for $1,499.99:
> Sony RSX-GS9 High-res digital media receiver (does not play CDs) at Crutchfield.com
> ...


I think that the list price has risen since the unit first was put up on the Sony website. Here in Norway it was listed at 11000NOK back then, now it's changed to 17000NOK (about 2100USD)

In other related news, Sony has just released a turntable that can convert all your analogue vinyl records into highres DSD files, so you basically can have a unlimited supply of highres audio music from now on: 


http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/audio-components/ps-hx500


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Ugh. Belt drive.

Not sure how much benefit there is to DSD for recording vinyl? I own a 5000+ piece record collection, and know that vinyl only supports a frequency range of about 60 Hz to 15,000 Hz. Maybe less. I would probably just rip to 16/44.1 WAV and save the space, but that's just me.

I've been wanting to record my vinyl to WAV for a long time but it's so much work that I can't get myself to start it.

The belt drive might be a problem for my needs, too. Too much wow and flutter compared to DD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Sounds more like the task of converting 5000+ albums is the main problem, and you won't see a solution to that anytime soon  

If an album has a 45 min running time and you spend 8 hours every day just converting it will take you about one and a half years to finish the job. 

But if you want to convert vinyl albums to DSD with your preferred turntable/tonearm/cartridge setup there are solutions for that too: Product: DA-3000 | TASCAM


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

haakono said:


> Sounds more like the task of converting 5000+ albums is the main problem, and you won't see a solution to that anytime soon
> 
> If an album has a 45 min running time and you spend 8 hours every day just converting it will take you about one and a half years to finish the job.
> 
> But if you want to convert vinyl albums to DSD with your preferred turntable/tonearm/cartridge setup there are solutions for that too: Product: DA-3000 | TASCAM



My records are all 12" singles and EPs. About 8-12 minutes per side for singles. Still, it would take at least a couple of years to record them all. :laugh:


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

I was under the impression that the biggest selling point for this unit was the sabre dac.. to me it would have made more since to have a digital input vs a digital output... I have heard the unit first hand and I was very impressed... I would like to say though that the c90 xdp4000x combo is better sounding...


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Did anyone get a chance see/hear this unit at CES? Would love to hear impressions.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

matdotcom2000 said:


> I was under the impression that the biggest selling point for this unit was the sabre dac.. to me it would have made more since to have a digital input vs a digital output... I have heard the unit first hand and I was very impressed... I would like to say though that the c90 xdp4000x combo is better sounding...



That is a world class combo, if a little limited. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

It's funny how we compare the new offerings to the Sony ES combo every year....and they still don't stack up. Imagine if they'd have kept their heads in the game


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

I had that combo in my old honda... I always thought it sounded great, but never knew ithese units were held such high regard. May have to dig them out of storage 


matdotcom2000 said:


> I was under the impression that the biggest selling point for this unit was the sabre dac.. to me it would have made more since to have a digital input vs a digital output... I have heard the unit first hand and I was very impressed... I would like to say though that the c90 xdp4000x combo is better sounding...


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

Here's a good overview of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvBdW06Qs24


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

maximus5403 said:


> Here's a good overview of it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvBdW06Qs24


Who wants to set there and fumble around with a phone. Unit has alot of features but the display and not having complete control of ipod search, is RIDICULOUS!!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

gumbeelee said:


> Who wants to set there and fumble around with a phone. Unit has alot of features but the display and not having complete control of ipod search, is RIDICULOUS!!


This seems to be the biggest complaint (I agree 100%). With all of that room on the face, they could have easily put a reasonable screen on this thing and still kept it looking classy. The screen is a very real deal breaker for me, which is a shame because the rest of the unit seems very interesting.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I am sold on it!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

#1BigMike said:


> I am sold on it!


If my listening habits (in the car) didn't involve me switching songs and changing albums, I wouldn't be as put off by the screen. But, I search and change songs/albums/artists, and I refuse to fumble around with my ipod to do this. 

Mike, even though this isn't a deal breaker for you, don't you think it would have been much more appealing to use some of that blank space to make a more reasonable display? I just don't know what Sony was thinking here. Since this unit is designed without a CD drive, digital inputs are going to be the only real source for music, those sources almost require a proper screen. If this unit only played CD's then the screen would be fine. It seems like they got it backwards.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm a heavy track/artist/genre/playlist flipper and I tell ya I couldn't imagine any single din that'd be anywhere close to as easy as I can do it right on the dang phone. 

Were I to do this Sony, it'd be simple:

Mini-tablet for cleanest and BEST interface and full control over the Sony, and mount the Sony about anywhere you'd like, maybe even trunk. That's the beauty of the thing, if the app controls everything, you can have a screen the size of a 2-din or a doggone full-bore iPad Pro is you have dash space. 










Gotta think outside the box with this particular head unit. It's meant for device.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Babs said:


> I'm a heavy track/artist/genre/playlist flipper and I tell ya I couldn't imagine any single din that'd be anywhere close to as easy as I can do it right on the dang phone.
> 
> Were I to do this Sony, it'd be simple:
> 
> ...


Sure, but for $1,500 I shouldn't have to purchase a display.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

I really like the way Sony has embraced the smart phone revolution. Nearly everyone (myself excluded) has a smart phone that will mount on the dash or vents that can control nearly every function of the radio and do it with ease compared to leaning over to your radio controls. Think of all the best single din radios out there, did any one of them compare to a double din with respect to information on one screen? Almost every din unit out there has a limitation with screen info, scrolling screens are too slow and take too much time starring at it to read the track name. If you have a three line display the letters are too tiny to discern while driving. Fumbling around with the iPod interface on my Alpine is still too slow and requires you to click, turn a knob, select etc. I know holding your phone and selecting every song on a list isn't safe, but voice recognition is like sync. If your smart phone will respond to voice commands use it. I love the idea of it all, just not wealthy enough to incorporate it into any of my cars. I also love double din radios and all of them have drawbacks people can quibble. The time of using your radio to change the songs or settings has come to a head. Using voice commands and Bluetooth to control your radio with your phone or tablet is a much better option and one I embrace.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gijoe said:


> Sure, but for $1,500 I shouldn't have to purchase a display.



You got a smart phone right? Done. Just get the app. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Babs said:


> You got a smart phone right? Done. Just get the app.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course I have a smart phone, a smart phone that has no business being in my hand at any time while driving. A smart phone is an unsafe, unreasonable solution. I should never have to use my phone to do this in a car. I shouldn't have to get a crappy, plastic phone mount to keep my phone dangling off of the dash. I especially shouldn't have to do all of this to use a $1,500 head unit that has 60% of it's usable surface area completely empty while a GIANT knob and TINY screen take up the other 40%.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

knever3 said:


> Using voice commands and Bluetooth to control your radio with your phone or tablet is a much better option and one I embrace.


Is the Sony deck voice controlled?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gijoe said:


> Of course I have a smart phone, a smart phone that has no business being in my hand at any time while driving. A smart phone is an unsafe, unreasonable solution. I should never have to use my phone to do this in a car. I shouldn't have to get a crappy, plastic phone mount to keep my phone dangling off of the dash. I especially shouldn't have to do all of this to use a $1,500 head unit that has 60% of it's usable surface area completely empty while a GIANT knob and TINY screen take up the other 40%.


I see your point and agree so don't get me wrong. 

My point is that poking at a 7" double-din screen is no safer really than a mobile device mounted in or on your dash if we think about it. 

I also agree a crap-plastic mount has one use.. landfill fodder. Absolutely despise them. There are better methods.. Simple magnetic mounts, etc.. I've been using a Nite-ize Steelie and will never go back to a squeeze-type plastic mount. I figure two steelie balls would hold an iPad mini just very stationary. Not double-din stationary, but pretty decent for dash use without rolling around and tilting etc, depending on placement and how accomodating the dash might be.

But yeah, you'd expect for $1500 you wouldn't have to rely on another device for the UI and the thing could have been a double-din. I guess wherever Sony thinks this unit will be liked is wherever the "SQ" guys still roll around in 1-din cars. 

It is quite the odd-ball design that makes me wonder if the Sony marketing guys and engineers got together, downed way too much sake and drew the thing up on a bar coaster.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

GIJOE, while I understand your concerns about the unit, and agree to some degree, those concerns are not enough for me to take this unit of my personal list of must haves.

IMO this deck allows for the best SQ possibilities in the car audio market today. As far as the cosmetics go, I am really digging the sleek less busy look. I have not seen the unit in person but from the photos I have seen, this unit screams quality in a very reserve way.

IMO, everything is not for everyone. I like to make playlist and just let it roll. I never even look at my current OEM HU I have now because it is to damn busy. IMO less is better. 

In closing I am just glad Sony has stepped up to the plate. I am sure future models will have a better display for those that desire it. As for the complete design of this model and what I am looking for, Sony has tickled my fancy! :laugh:



gijoe said:


> Mike, even though this isn't a deal breaker for you, don't you think it would have been much more appealing to use some of that blank space to make a more reasonable display? I just don't know what Sony was thinking here. Since this unit is designed without a CD drive, digital inputs are going to be the only real source for music, those sources almost require a proper screen. If this unit only played CD's then the screen would be fine. It seems like they got it backwards.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

I understand your opinions, Babs and Mike. Clearly this unit offers something special to some people. I just think that if Sony was smart, they could have created a product that looked just as good, performed just as well, yet was appealing to more people. They took a product that already has a very small, dedicated group of users and made it so that even among those users only a few would actually purchase it. It had so much potential to fill a gap in the market, but failed to do so because of how they used the space. 

I really do think this is a fascinating piece, and although the screen is a complete deal breaker for me, I understand that some of you will be able to put it to good use. The P99 is amazing, but even it "isn't for everyone." This Sony deck won't even appeal to as many people as the P99, calling "not for everyone" is an understatement!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gijoe said:


> I just think that if Sony was smart, they could have created a product that *looked just as good*, performed just as well, yet was appealing to more people. They took a product that already has a very small, dedicated group of users and made it so that even among those users only a few would actually purchase it. It had so much potential to fill a gap in the market, but failed to do so because of how they used the space.
> 
> I really do think this is a fascinating piece, and although the screen is a complete deal breaker for me, I understand that some of you will be able to put it to good use. The P99 is amazing, but even it "isn't for everyone." This Sony deck won't even appeal to as many people as the P99, calling "not for everyone" is an understatement!


"looked just as good" meaning to some folks "clean" and "uncluttered" and to other folks "2-din screen". I guess it's in who you ask and their tastes.

In the video someone posted a page or so back the dealer guy stated you could even put the thing in your trunk.. That's an exciting idea.. Sony sight unseen entirely. Stick an iPad mini in the dash solidly so your interface is pretty much like any 2-din, hard-wired and still doing everything a head unit would do only far far cleaner... You'd forget what the actual head unit looked like after a while. :laugh: 

Would like to see that implemented to see how well it'd go if you totally do not need access from driver seat to the head unit. If so that sucker could ride shotgun with a big USB stick, right next to your amps.

On the 99RS, I think as the 99RS users transition into better outboard DSP's, they'll see the beauty of the head unit becoming just a media server.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Babs said:


> "looked just as good" meaning to some folks "clean" and "uncluttered" and to other folks "2-din screen". I guess it's in who you ask and their tastes.
> 
> In the video someone posted a page or so back the dealer guy stated you could even put the thing in your trunk.. That's an exciting idea.. Sony sight unseen entirely. Stick an iPad mini in the dash solidly so your interface is pretty much like any 2-din, hard-wired and still doing everything a head unit would do only far far cleaner... You'd forget what the actual head unit looked like after a while. :laugh:
> 
> ...


I guess time will tell on this one. I suspect that they won't sell enough units to keep this thing around for long, but I may be surprised. If the screen isn't as big of an issue for most people then Sony might do ok, but if it is, people aren't going to spend $1,500 on this, just to have to spend more money and time on a display and the fabrication involved. 

I'm interested to see what kind of impact this thing ends up making, I just suspect that it'll fall drastically short of what it could have been.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gijoe said:


> I guess time will tell on this one. I suspect that they won't sell enough units to keep this thing around for long, but I may be surprised. If the screen isn't as big of an issue for most people then Sony might do ok, but if it is, people aren't going to spend $1,500 on this, just to have to spend more money and time on a display and the fabrication involved.
> 
> I'm interested to see what kind of impact this thing ends up making, I just suspect that it'll fall drastically short of what it could have been.


I suspect you'd be right. I have no idea what Sony's thinking was with zero car audio presence except unexploded xplod gear, then this. They are an odd bird for sure. I do kinda dig their odd-ball weirdo head unit with a phone mount built in. I guess maybe that was their early idea that led to this thing. 

Speaking of odd-balls.. Alpines new 967 nav unit loses the disk and optical output, and goes an hdmi output !?!?!. They kinda slipped that one in there. I think the head unit companies hate us "audio" guys. I'm convinced of this.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Babs said:


> Speaking of odd-balls.. Alpines new 967 nav unit loses the disk and optical output, and goes an hdmi output !?!?!. They kinda slipped that one in there. I think the head unit companies hate us "audio" guys. I'm convinced of this.


So... one more link in the chain? HDMI to optical adapter?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Here is a little video from SoundscapeCarAudio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvBdW06Qs24


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

As lame as it may sound, if I used this for digital out I'd lose the volume control. And that would suck to have this headunit and cool rotary volume knob that would then serve no purpose.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

SQLnovice said:


> Here is a little video from SoundscapeCarAudio
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvBdW06Qs24


Didn't look over previous post to see if this link was posted already.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

ErinH said:


> As lame as it may sound, if I used this for digital out I'd lose the volume control. And that would suck to have this headunit and cool rotary volume knob that would then serve no purpose.



When I had my old Sony C910 toslink to Sony dsp, my volume knob still worked. Do modern dsp's loose this ability?


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

pasmag.com has a "review" up of the entire sony hi-res line. JPS


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

ssclassa60 said:


> When I had my old Sony C910 toslink to Sony dsp, my volume knob still worked. Do modern dsp's loose this ability?


The volume knob in that set-up works because of the the Sony Uni-Link cable between the deck and processor. It passes encoded volume instructions from the headunit to the DSP. If you were to run your C-910 to a different processor, you would not have volume control from the headunit anymore.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

jpswanberg said:


> pasmag.com has a "review" up of the entire sony hi-res line. JPS



What's tragic about the feel of that write-up and Sony's marketing of the super tweeters, that those not in the know will erroneously oversimplify and arrive at an uneducated guess that high-res audio means "ah just better highs". Which of course we know is baloney. But I fear they better clarify that if the marketing is to work with the masses looking at this gear. If in fact masses actually go into shops and look at gear anymore. I read one shop does appointment only now to rid the shop of time wasters, and concentrate on servicing the serious customers. Well played. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Wow! That was a fantastic video from soundscape. The deck looks awesome in the dash. The way a single din radio is integrated has changed so you can essentially hide the unit in your glove box or center console and use the app to control everything. I think it looks even better in that video. It would be great is Sony would come back to be known for producing quality car stereo instead of their whole xplode campaign.

Did you notice that xplode wasn't anywhere on this deck, nor es? It's a shame about not having the es or xes listed, just as Pioneer has dropped the Premier line. I like the separation of lines myself, prestige I guess.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Will the remote still work for volume?


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

#1BigMike said:


> Will the remote still work for volume?


On the phone app? or the radio remote? The radio has an IR remote so the use of an IR extender if the deck is hidden would work. A wired remote for steering wheel controls would work too. As for volume control from the phone app I haven't found concrete evidence of either. I see that when using optical the volume control on the radio doesn't work, but that's already been discussed here. I'm sure someone here must have a Sony deck with the app that can chime in. That would sure help!


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Let me rephrase my question, will the volume button on the sony remote work when running optical to DSP? I see that the volume knob on the deck will not work sadly. 

I will have the helix DRC installed so I could always use that knob but I was really hoping the remote would work. 

It's seem's that not many people are using this deck just yet.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

From the manual:

Optical connection
 This OPTICAL OUT is designed for connecting a
power amplifier with an optical input. When
another digital device is connected, the functions
of the device may not work properly.
 When making connections, do not bend the
optical cable (not supplied). Doing so may
prevent output of sound.
 When the optical connection is made:
 set [Optical Out] to [48kHz] or [96kHz] to
enable.
 the volume controls on the unit and the remote
commander do not work.
 [Subwoofer], [Pos Custom], [Pos Preset], [EQ10
Preset], [Balance], [Fader], [Loudness] and
[DSEE HX] are automatically set to [OFF].
 No sound is output while native DSD playback
is performed via the USB micro-B port.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

*DAMN YOU SONY! I REFUSE TO LET THIS DEFEAT ME LOL :laugh:*


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Volume knap not working with digital out. There might be several solutions. More or less complicted. I have prepared already 8 presets for DSP with 8 different volume levels (from null til max). 8 steps should be ok when driving, I think.

Shame on Sony that they have not think of this.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Onyx1136 said:


> The volume knob in that set-up works because of the the Sony Uni-Link cable between the deck and processor. It passes encoded volume instructions from the headunit to the DSP. If you were to run your C-910 to a different processor, you would not have volume control from the headunit anymore.



That makes sense, optical has no way of increasing 'level' on its own.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Ya know. This thing is a bit closer in function and purpose really to the buggy but great sounding Audison Bit Play HD than it is other head units. How much are those Audison units? 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

Babs said:


> Ya know. This thing is a bit closer in function and purpose really to the buggy but great sounding Audison Bit Play HD than it is other head units. How much are those Audison units?
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Around $700 iirc. They also have new firmware that fixes 90% of the issues and adds features people were requesting.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

maximus5403 said:


> Around $700 iirc. They also have new firmware that fixes 90% of the issues and adds features people were requesting.


That's a significant difference. So if Audison really does a fine job with the update to the Bit Play HD, it'll be a hard sell for the Sony to a customer who's aware of the Audison and who's after hi-rez "player" or "media server" to feed a DSP digitally with some kind of device-based UI.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

1. Of course an optical digital output can include volume control. In practice, engineers don't often do it this way in order to protect dynamic range despite the ridiculous inconvenience.

2. The audibility of sampling rates higher than 44.1k is highly disputed. Basically, the higher rate makes non linear signal processing of low level signals a bit more accurate. 

3. The super tweeters are designed specifically for the Japanese market, in which audiophiles believe that frequencies above 20k are felt in the skin. Not too many western audiophiles believe this.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

#1BigMike said:


> *DAMN YOU SONY! I REFUSE TO LET THIS DEFEAT ME LOL :laugh:*



Get a DSP with a volume controller.

You get better sound quality using the DSP volume, anyway. Better signal to noise.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> Get a DSP with a volume controller.
> 
> You get better sound quality using the DSP volume, anyway. Better signal to noise.


Done, I have the helix Director that will be installed.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Yeah the H800 would work well, but the controller is a bit big. If you can remove the volume knob from the board and remote locate it like a sub level that would be great.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I know this HU is not for everyone but, damn it is very SEXY! It simply screams hotness while being very conservative. 

I can't wait to install it in a few weeks.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)




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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

It is my hope soon!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

#1BigMike said:


> I know this HU is not for everyone but, damn it is very SEXY! It simply screams hotness while being very conservative.
> 
> I can't wait to install it in a few weeks.



That volume knob sure takes me back to my mini truckin' days in the early 90s.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

#1BigMike said:


> I know this HU is not for everyone but, damn it is very SEXY! It simply screams hotness while being very conservative.
> 
> I can't wait to install it in a few weeks.


You KNOW you have to bring that thing down to NC in the Spring so a bunch of us can see it / hear it!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> You KNOW you have to bring that thing down to NC in the Spring so a bunch of us can see it / hear it!



^ THAT!!!!


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

bertholomey said:


> You KNOW you have to bring that thing down to NC in the Spring so a bunch of us can see it / hear it!


LOL, I am really working on figuring out how to make it happen that's for sure.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

rton20s said:


> That volume knob sure takes me back to my mini truckin' days in the early 90s.


Hells yeah. Love minitrucks. I've built a couple S-10's, and have a Colorado I'm slowly working on as a long-term project. RIP Minitruckin' Magazine.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

rton20s said:


> That volume knob sure takes me back to my mini truckin' days in the early 90s.


I agree. I think the unit itself screams high class, but the volume knob finish seems a little out of place.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

agreed about the look of the volume knob. seems to not go with the rest of the look by any means. kind of odd.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Idk guys, kinda reminds me of this guy










Sent from my mind using telekinesis


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

It may be how the light is hitting it in the picture. It doesn't look as off in person. Its by far the best looking deck I have seen IMO of course. Sucks I have to wait so long to install it.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Golden Ear!

LMAO


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Sent from my mind using telekinesis


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Ohhhh big mike your knob is gorgeous I want one really bad.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

#1BigMike said:


> It may be how the light is hitting it in the picture. It doesn't look as off in person. Its by far the best looking deck I have seen IMO of course. Sucks I have to wait so long to install it.


Mike, congrats on the RSX-GS9.

Would you mind taking a photo of the IR Remote Commander and posting it here?

What device will you be using to display and operate the SongPal app? How and where will you mount it in the vehicle?

Have you hooked up the RSX-GS9 on the bench to test the functionality & control/operation of everything using the SongPal app interface, and media storage connectivity (USB Thumbdrive/HDD/SSD, etc.) + speed of access?

If not, I would try this sooner rather than later to make sure that it does what you need. Hopefully you have purchased this from Crutchfield and have the 60 days to return it if you find it's not what you expected, though I'm really hoping that it's everything that you wanted and more!


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

@bbfoto

Mike, congrats on the RSX-GS9.

*Thank you! *

Would you mind taking a photo of the IR Remote Commander and posting it here?

*I am sure I could grab a pic for you. To be honest, the remote doesn't even come close to the quality of the P99 remote which is a bit upsetting. P99 remote is so nice!
*
What device will you be using to display and operate the SongPal app? How and where will you mount it in the vehicle?

*I will be unsafe and use my iPhone 6+ to start. I may install an iPad mini not 100% sure just yet.*

Have you hooked up the RSX-GS9 on the bench to test the functionality & control/operation of everything using the SongPal app interface, and media storage connectivity (USB Thumbdrive/HDD/SSD, etc.) + speed of access?

*No testing has been done, it's sitting in the basement for now lol. When time permits I will install it. It's going into a new build in which nothing has been done. It's going to take some time. My goal is to have the system install done prior to April 1st.

However for you, I might have the Sony put in soon even with the stock speakers.  *

If not, I would try this sooner rather than later to make sure that it does what you need. Hopefully you have purchased this from Crutchfield and have the 60 days to return it if you find it's not what you expected, though I'm really hoping that it's everything that you wanted and more!

*I am sure it will be everything I wanted it to be. Yes I purchased authorized.*


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

#1BigMike said:


> *No testing has been done, it's sitting in the basement for now lol. When time permits I will install it. It's going into a new build in which nothing has been done. It's going to take some time. My goal is to have the system install done prior to April 1st.
> 
> *


*


Just in time.....*


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I am going to try thats for sure brother


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Dunno if anyone posted this before.. Vid presented by the Sony product manager at CES to the guys at Sonic.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Babs said:


> Dunno if anyone posted this before.. Vid presented by the Sony product manager at CES to the guys at CES



It would have been great if one of 'us' had sat down with him.....and asked what was their goal, their target audience, etc - the questions we have been asking on this thread. 

I know it doesn't make business sense in a production environment.....but it would have been cool if they had two models heavy and light - this would have been the light model.....in the $600 range perhaps - to replace the stock head unit, replace stock drivers, and add a 5 channel amp. 

The heavy model for $1500 would have at least the processing capacity of the P99. I would have been interested despite the dinky screen.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> It would have been great if one of 'us' had sat down with him.....and asked what was their goal, their target audience, etc - the questions we have been asking on this thread.
> 
> I know it doesn't make business sense in a production environment.....but it would have been cool if they had two models heavy and light - this would have been the light model.....in the $600 range perhaps - to replace the stock head unit, replace stock drivers, and add a 5 channel amp.
> 
> The heavy model for $1500 would have at least the processing capacity of the P99. I would have been interested despite the dinky screen.



Well yeah or maybe something very out-of-the-box, such as no preamp even. Just leave the dac and preamp in the heavy version. Make the light version zero processing or analog and just spdif/optical digital output. The highly contested phone/device as main interface I think is actually kinda cool. But in the light version you wouldn't even need to face or volume. Just make it a box hid somewhere. Tablet-install time. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

#1BigMike said:


> @bbfoto
> 
> Mike, congrats on the RSX-GS9.
> 
> ...


LOL. DOOOO IT! 





Thanks for taking the time to post the photo of the remote. :thumbsup: 

But yeah, I agree that comparatively, the P99 remote is small, useful, and very slick looking. Get crackin' on that install! I'm sure that you'll be happy the sooner you get it up & running...and it would be awesome for everyone at Jason's Spring GTG to see and hear as well.  No Pressure!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> and it would be awesome for everyone at Jason's Spring GTG to see and hear as well.  No Pressure!


dude! you should fly out to the meet and hang with us for the weekend.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

NO Pressure lol...


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

I have been WAY out of the scene because I hadn't heard of this thing until I saw it in this month's Crutchfield mailer. I think it is gorgeous and I love the concept but I agree with many here, for $1500 Sony should have put the volume knob on the far right and expanded the display. I do like the idea of connecting to it via BT with my iPhone and then send optical from this to a Helix DSP Pro but then you're using it as a REALLY expensive 10 character display. If I understand correctly, there is no active xover or TA, correct? I am a sucker for high end Sony opulence so I am sure the build quality/sound is amazing. That Sabre ES9018 DAC is supposed to be incredible and usually found in ultra high end home stuff like Classé (but we all know you can't hear a DAC ).

Maybe these will go on fire sale in 12-18 months, then I might pick one up


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Architect7 said:


> I have been WAY out of the scene because I hadn't heard of this thing until I saw it in this month's Crutchfield mailer. I think it is gorgeous and I love the concept but I agree with many here, for $1500 Sony should have put the volume knob on the far right and expanded the display. I do like the idea of connecting to it via BT with my iPhone and then send optical from this to a Helix DSP Pro but then you're using it as a REALLY expensive 10 character display. If I understand correctly, there is no active xover or TA, correct? I am a sucker for high end Sony opulence so I am sure the build quality/sound is amazing. That Sabre ES9018 DAC is supposed to be incredible and usually found in ultra high end home stuff like Classé (but we all know you can't hear a DAC ).
> 
> Maybe these will go on fire sale in 12-18 months, then I might pick one up


It has basic typical conventional crossover and TA, which of course would be defeated if going external.

On the DAC: Yeah is that in the same camp as all amps sound the same? 

I'm holding out for the NX706 to get debugged and street-pricing for a 2-din higher-than-CD-rez with optical output. And the clarion has variable or fixed toslink output.

Trick is, both of these kinda tread over into Bit Play HD pricing territory for a digital media server. Granted the Sony and the Clarion will do basic head unit stuff such as radio.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Babs said:


> It has basic typical conventional crossover and TA, which of course would be defeated if going external.
> 
> On the DAC: Yeah is that in the same camp as all amps sound the same?
> 
> ...


That NX706 looks pretty slick!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Babs said:


> It has basic typical conventional crossover and TA, which of course would be defeated if going external.



I meant to say if going optical. Oops


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Architect7 said:


> That NX706 looks pretty slick!



Yeah it does. Has me fired up. 


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## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

I was able to check one of these out the other day. It has an app available that works as a fully functional remote and will allow browsing through usb storage, adjustment of eq, possibly the TA but it was all left at facto for some listening. Like someone else mentioned it would be a very high priced media player if using it with the optical out. 

*disclaimer* I'm just a guy who studied mechanical engineering and reads books, not an industry guy or someone who includes 'audiophile' for all audio searches on google including resistors. 

I listened to a few comparisons of songs from Norah Jones and Maceo Parker, first on USB flash drive SACD ripped to FLAC 96/24, and then switched over to Tidal Lossless CD quality via bluetooth on a Sony phone with the LDAC tech. On a set of Illusion carbon components and a C12XL connected to an AS100.4. Definitely noticably better over Bluetooth with the LDAC and Tidal compared to pandora/iheart/bluetooth audio 320kbps, but as soon as the same song played from the USB drive you could hear the noise floor lower substantially, which meant more detail, and a little more dynamic across the spectrum. Bluetooth and SQ seem to still be like oil and water, even with how much better it may be using sony's proprietary tech. Back and forth a few times between the two and the Tidal/LDAC/bluetooth seemed really lacking compared to a flash drive IMO. 

Since the ipod thing happened, sound quality seemed like didn't matter anymore because people camped out in front of a store for half a week for something that had about 10% of the amount of musical data as a CD but it had a round wheel in the middle and a tiny screen and had a big impact on sound quality in a bad way. Last time I saw itunes best was 320kbps which is only about 22% of the musical data of a CD, yet most consumers laugh at CD's and call them old school. Worth a listen with some high res music, even if it lacks the extensive tuning most DSPs offer. Very nice to hear in the era of all this infotainment touch screen carplay nonsense.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Hello Folks,

I need some help with picking an external tablet to use with this unit. I will primally be using the micro USB of the Sony unit to connect with the tablet. 

I am an Apple fanboy and really want to use an IPAD mini but I also like Surface pro 3 (doesn't have to be either of these) I saw this weekend at BestBuy.

The tablet will be dedicated for the most part as a media server specifically for this system. 

Any advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you could also list why you would choose the specific tablet would be great also.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

#1BigMike said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I need some help with picking an external tablet to use with this unit. I will primally be using the micro USB of the Sony unit to connect with the tablet.
> 
> ...


*I did TONS of research about tabs before I got one. * I mean, I spent no less than 20hrs reading specs and comparisons. This wasn't just my first tablet purchase, it was my first smart device purchase. I have been using a flip phone until late last year! So, I wanted the most versatility. I ended up getting the Samsung Galaxy Tab S 8.4. Currently I am also using it as my phone, takes a SIM card, as well as a memory chip for expansion. I can load all my music on the chip rather than storing in the device. Also, later on down the line I plan to get a Samsung phone; they have something called 'side sync'. Just look that up if you don't know about it, really cool feature. I honestly know VERY little about this stuff. I also wanted one large enough where I could watch movies streamed from my Dish Network. I spend TONS of time in waiting rooms at doctors offices so I wanted something to pass the time while I waited. 

So, that would be my suggestion and by now the price is a good bit lower than it was when I purchased.

GOOD LUCK. I am VERY interested how it works with this head unit. I'm a huge Sony fan and have been considering this one...


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Thank you so much for your suggestion.

I will have something this week for sure.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

I am keen to hear what guys think about the SQ - people are talking P99 a lot here - so is it better sounding? 

What impact is there to the SQ using the optical output? That fancy DAC goes out the window because your using a lessor DAC in your DSP? 



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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

I feel a high end DAP would work just as well as this unit in various scenarios.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

I think this HU will work better if the DSP used is of the same quality in terms of DACs - right now to get the real benefit from this HU you need to use it without a DSP so your limited on the tuning capabilities just to have better resolution audio...

This HU would have been better with a more comprehensive crossover and EQ..

I think the new Zapco processors which might have the 32bit Sabre dacs will be a good match with the HU as its focus is high Res audio.. 

Looks interesting.. 

Me personally I use my iPhone as my source 95% of the time so to get a better processing ability that what is in the phone and the ISTREAMER DAC will be a win for me. 

How about a DAC that is comparable to the AK380... Now that would be awesome!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Elektra said:


> I am keen to hear what guys think about the SQ - people are talking P99 a lot here - so is it better sounding?
> 
> What impact is there to the SQ using the optical output? That fancy DAC goes out the window because your using a lessor DAC in your DSP?


Yeah if you're using an outboard DSP, which I imagine will be the larger percentage of folks using a head unit like this, the internal DAC may be somewhat of a waste, except for whatever processing sorcery the Sony's internals are doing for supplying the toslink output. 

On SQ, I imagine using toslink to DSP, the SQ impact then becomes the ability of the installer/tuner guy to tune the system.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I ran both RCA and optical


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

#1BigMike said:


> I ran both USB and optical


On the Sony? How does it sound?


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I meant to say RCA and Optical in previous post (sorry), its been changed.

Sounds really good. Still working on tuning but IMO the system has the making of something special.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks #1BigMike - tell me from what are you referencing this Sony to? What is your current setup? I assume you are using a DSP as you mentioned optical before? 

Have you compared it without using the optical? 

Sorry for the questions - I am thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these but getting a proper review seems to be hard...

Might just be because they are too new still... 




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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Yes I was looking for reviews as well but couldn't find any. I haven't did a review just yet because the system isn't completely tuned.

I did find out that when using optical OUT, you are only able transfer up to 96/24. All of my USB inputs (3) on the sony deck run-through the optical line to the Helix DSP pro.

In order to play files rated higher than 96/24, you will need to go through the Micro USB port. Here's the kicker, in order to take advantage of the super high res files, you need to be able transport all the data. That is were the RCA interconnects come into play.

The unit will upsample every signal sent into it on any USB input or Bluetooth. However, to get the full impact of the unit you must go through the USB micro input. This is how you may use the ability of the unit to play back higher Res files than 96/24. 

Having both OPTICAL and RCA interconnects is the way to go IMHO. With that said, I will have a minimum of 2 separate tunes and presets via the Helix Director.

**This is my understand as of how things are operating right now. The sony deck is still too new to me to grasp a full understanding of everything. Let it be noted, if you don't mind having your iPad, phone, computer hooked up to your unit at all times it is worth money.**

I hope to get the tune decent and make it to some events so others can put their more seasoned ears on it and give a review. Hope this helps a little. 

_OH YEAH I ALMOST FORGOT, THE SQ IS CRAZY GOOD LOL!!! _


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

So if I am understanding you correctly - to benefit from the higher Res files and that Sony DAC you must go through the RCA's and use the micro USB input on the HU - I presume that's for DSD files? 

I have a my music stores on the IPhone 6 so I'll probably use the USB inputs mostly as I don't have a device that can use the micro USB... 

So if you use the optical then your using the DAC on your Helix? 

What was your setup before the Sony? 


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

See below 



Elektra said:


> So if I am understanding you correctly - to benefit from the higher Res files and that Sony DAC you must go through the RCA's and use the micro USB input on the HU - I presume that's for DSD files?
> 
> *Any file above 96/24*
> 
> ...


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

I may have missed this before.

Will the USB connections on the rear of the unit charge newer iPads with Rentina?


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

I have opened a New thread with a list of HU's that can play FLAC and apt-x BT too... 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...263761-head-units-apt-x-flac-player-list.html


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