# Smartphone to processor connection testing (AirEnabler, optical/spdif, wireless)



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I mean the thread as a test bed for smartphone to processor connection testing in general. I will evaluate several options for connecting an Iphone 6+ to an Alpine H800 until one works. However, just about anything related wireless or not, android or iphone should be helpful so please post insight. 

I. To start, I thought the best option for my Iphone6 was to get the AirEnabler to output signals unprocessed in the digital domain (optical out). This would give me lossless wireless signal transmission to the AirEnabler through Airplay, and passthrough of digital signal to a processor through a usb audio card with optical out.

The AirEnabler is this gadget bought from Amazon here:
Amazon order link:Amazon.com : AirEnabler Adapter Kit (for Apple AirPlay) : Electronics
Company website: AirEnabler

The AirEnabler uses AirPlay through WiFi to connect to an Iphone. Then it spits out a USB connection that can be used to power an audio card. The beauty and the curse is finding the right audio card. 

First try at a 2.0 USB audio card with optical out: Sound Blaster X-FI HD
http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blast...sic-premium-hd

Result:
I'm not sure the Creative natively has the optical out working. The AirEnabler likely doesn't turn on the optical by default. Therefore, all you have with this card is crappy analog output unless you use it with a laptop and change the default to optical out.

I tested the Creative optical vs. analog on my home setup that consists of:
Onkyo TX-NR929
BG 520FS dipole line arrays
Martin Logan Descent subwoofer
All active 1500w total rms

The optical sounds really good. That's because the Creative card sends straight to the Onkyo DAC. 

The analog sounds like all life got taken out of the recording. It's so poor that it is downright laughable. 

I'll keep trying to get the optical to turn on with the Creative card otherwise I'm returning it and trying another.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm using this APT-X receiver with optical out from Monoprice. I believe it is the same thing as the Nyrius BR51. To use it for automotive purposes, I used a 12V to USB adapter and this cable from Fry's.

I'm streaming music from my Galaxy S4 and running the optical out to my DSP-88R. It sounds better than the carpc and usb dac it replaced.

The only thing I might do different is use the Nyrius BR50 instead. The Monoprice receiver I have and the BR51 use NFC to connect, but don't auto connect. The BR50 is the same thing but without NFC and is advertized to auto connect.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

BlueGhost said:


> I'm using this APT-X receiver with optical out from Monoprice. I believe it is the same thing as the Nyrius BR51. To use it for automotive purposes, I used a 12V to USB adapter and this cable from Fry's.
> 
> I'm streaming music from my Galaxy S4 and running the optical out to my DSP-88R. It sounds better than the carpc and usb dac it replaced.
> 
> The only thing I might do different is use the Nyrius BR50 instead. The Monoprice receiver I have and the BR51 use NFC to connect, but don't auto connect. The BR50 is the same thing but without NFC and is advertized to auto connect.


Sounds like a killer solution for Android. Iphone 6 still doesn't have Aptx. How stable is the connection? Bluetooth often sends short passages of noise or disconnects when there is a passenger in the path in some installations.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

cvjoint said:


> Sounds like a killer solution for Android. Iphone 6 still doesn't have Aptx. How stable is the connection? Bluetooth often sends short passages of noise or disconnects when there is a passenger in the path in some installations.


I'm still wrapping up the install, so I haven't tested the connection while driving yet. I did test the Aptx receiver in my house before installing it. It played well up to 40 feet and a few sets of interior walls away.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Update: The Sound Blaster X-FI HD is not, in the words of Creative customer service rep, a standalone sound card. In other words, it won't spit out optical by default. 

Time to return. 

Anyone have a clue as to what sound card to go with? I need it to have:
USB 2.0 powered
optical out by default (aka "standalone")


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Did customer service make any recommendations?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Have you researched this one?

Behringer: U-CONTROL UCA202


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

Turtle Beach makes some usb sound cards with optical out.

I have the older version to this one, Audio Advantage Micro II - Turtle Beach, Inc., but have never tried the optical. I believe it outputs an optical signal all the time.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

wdemetrius1 said:


> Did customer service make any recommendations?


I can't express how frustrated I am with customer service. I contacted half a dozen companies including Creative to have tech support find me a USB 2.0 card that outputs optical by default. The only thing customer support is good for nowadays is to tell you if the product is in stock. In fact that's all they do no matter what you ask. Business has changed. 



t3sn4f2 said:


> Have you researched this one?
> 
> Behringer: U-CONTROL UCA202


I contacted tech support, but I'm not holding my breath.



BlueGhost said:


> Turtle Beach makes some usb sound cards with optical out.
> 
> I have the older version to this one, Audio Advantage Micro II - Turtle Beach, Inc., but have never tried the optical. I believe it outputs an optical signal all the time.


I had the older Turtle Beach. That one indeed outputs spdif by default. However, it is not USB 2.0 and therefore incompatible with the AirEnabler. 

I'm starting to think I should sell my Iphone 6 and go with Android again. 

I moved the AirEnabler in the car for testing today and it already disconnected with Soundcloud. It sends an error and can't reconnect to AirPlay. Spotify is more robust through AirPlay but WTF?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Have you researched this one?
> 
> Behringer: U-CONTROL UCA202


Behringer said no go, the card is not stand alone. It requires windows to set the optical on. 

Behringer and Creative 1 everyone else 0. At least Behringer and Creative answered to my email with relevant information.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> Behringer said no go, the card is not stand alone. It requires windows to set the optical on.
> 
> Behringer and Creative 1 everyone else 0. At least Behringer and Creative answered to my email with relevant information.


Damn, I could have sworn someone was using one with the camera kit on an ipad.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Receiving calls on this thing is a total pain. Yeah the sound cuts out but everything that happens after is a total mess. The bluetooth turns on to take the call so you need bluetooth anyway. Then airplay disconnects... 

I'm thinking hard about selling the iphone and getting the Note 4. Just waiting on confirmation that it has aptx.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

You know what they say, a good ol' wire will never be beat! How you tried something like

5.1 Channel Digital Computer USB to Analog and Optical SPDIF Audio Converter 

No real info though!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Ultimateherts said:


> You know what they say, a good ol' wire will never be beat! How you tried something like
> 
> 5.1 Channel Digital Computer USB to Analog and Optical SPDIF Audio Converter
> 
> No real info though!


It looks like an old fashioned usb audio card. This has me worried:
"System requirements: • Operating system: Microsoft® Windows® 98SE/ME/2000/XP or Apple® Mac® OSX • CPU: Intel® Pentium III 450 MHz (or equivalent AMD® CPU) or higher • System RAM: 128 MB • Hard disk space: 120 MB • One available USB port • DVD-ROM drive"

Air Enabler ain't any of that!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Consider also the many steps it takes the enabler to hook up. 

AirEnabler boot up
Turn on wi-fi
Find AirEnabler and connect to it
Wait for airplay option to show up on the iphone
select airplay though air enabler

Not really worth it, even for lossless!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok, I did a complete turn around. I am returning/selling the combo:
Iphone 6plus
AirEnabler
Creative USB audio card

And going with Android combo:
Samsung Note 4
Apt-x USB powered Bluetooth reciever
USB to 12 adapter

Amazon.com: Grace Digital GDI-BTPB300 3Play Jukebox Bluetooth Adapter (Black): MP3 Players & Accessories

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GQ48FCY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Check it out, the sucker is actually battery powered as well. If only it didn't have a timeout of 5 minutes, it could use the battery to stay paired. On the other hand, given the size of the battery and the 5 minute shut off it will never ever forget the 7 devices it is paired with. It also allows 3 pairings at a time. Pretty cool!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Nice find on that BT adapter.

Was going to let you know that the Note 4 does have Apt-X, but looks like you know that already.  Apt-X CSR was implemented starting with the Samsung Galaxy Note 2. I'm currently using my Note 8.0 3G Phablet (#GT-N5100) as the main source unit in one of my vehicles and it's been great. It has the same internals as the Note 2.

I'm REALLY surprised and disappointed that the new iPhone 6/6+ don't have Apt-X.  In fact, no iOS devices support it natively (without using an adapter), but Mac OSX devices have had native support as early as 2009! (Mac Mini, iMac, Macbook Pro, etc.) Weird.

I think you'll really like the display on the Note 4, and the extra functionality. Love the swappable battery and microSD slot for the extra 128GB, too. And a real file system, capability to play Hi-Res FLAC & WAV, in addition to ALAC, and connect directly to a multitude of USB DACs.

Interested to see how this works for you. Good luck.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Nice find on that BT adapter.
> 
> Was going to let you know that the Note 4 does have Apt-X, but looks like you know that already.  Apt-X CSR was implemented starting with the Samsung Galaxy Note 2. I'm currently using my Note 8.0 3G Phablet (#GT-N5100) as the main source unit in one of my vehicles and it's been great. It has the same internals as the Note 2.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, do tell more about the USB DACs, is that the USB host support? Can I plug in the phone straight into my creative audio card for optical out?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

This link verifies APT-X support for note 4:
Note 4 has Apt X?? Yes/No???? - Android Forums at AndroidCentral.com


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

I actually use this APT-X reciever to connect phone to the 3.5mm aux in, and it has worked great so far: Amazon.com : Avantree Saturn Wireless Bluetooth Audio Receiver and Bluetooth Transmitter 2 in 1 adapter, with aptX for Music and TV : MP3 Players & Accessories


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> Hmmm, do tell more about the USB DACs, is that the USB host support? Can I plug in the phone straight into my creative audio card for optical out?


You'll find that a bloke named Dan Ba ("DanBa" on many audio forums) keeps track of what USB DACs are compatible with certain devices...he mantains a list. Here's just one link with some good information:

Samsung Galaxy Note 4 Sound Quality - Page 9

The Chord Hugo DAC that's pictured also has a built-in Apt-X BT receiver...this DAC/Headphone Amp/Preamp ain't cheap, though. 



cvjoint said:


> This link verifies APT-X support for note 4:
> Note 4 has Apt X?? Yes/No???? - Android Forums at AndroidCentral.com


You'll also see the Apt-X/CSR Logo on the back of the Note 4 Box on several review photos & YouTube videos.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Through a million loopholes I was able to get my hands on a new Note 4 today. 

The APT-x receiver should be in tomorrow for some testing.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> Through a million loopholes I was able to get my hands on a new Note 4 today.
> 
> The APT-x receiver should be in tomorrow for some testing.


Congrats. Let us know what you think of the Note 4, and how it works out with the Apt-X receiver.

Did you get the Note 4 from a U.S. carrier or is it the International version?

Oh, time to change your sig, too.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Congrats. Let us know what you think of the Note 4, and how it works out with the Apt-X receiver.
> 
> Did you get the Note 4 from a U.S. carrier or is it the International version?
> 
> Oh, time to change your sig, too.


I got it from a Verizon store. It wasn't easy. 

Yep, new sig, who would have thought. That iphone looked like a keeper for a few weeks.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't have any type of technical data but I connect my phone optically to my DSP through the hdmi out. I use a HDMI to optical adapter. I also have a HD BT adapter with digital out. The HDMI sounds noticeably better. HDMI is also a more reliable connection than BT. The BT isn't bad so I now use it with my garage system.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Theslaking said:


> I don't have any type of technical data but I connect my phone optically to my DSP through the hdmi out. I use a HDMI to optical adapter. I also have a HD BT adapter with digital out. The HDMI sounds noticeably better. HDMI is also a more reliable connection than BT. The BT isn't bad so I now use it with my garage system.


The BT device makes the difference. If it's not APT-x the compression algorithm will be noticeable. 

Using the HDMI I do think there is still some conversion going on. The phone itself will standardize the output before it goes through the HDMI. 

I believe your BT conversion is of a poorer quality than the internal phone conversion to output HDMI. None are straight through design. 

I couldn't tell you if APTx sounds better than HDMI but it's possible.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> The BT device makes the difference. If it's not APT-x the compression algorithm will be noticeable.
> 
> *Using the HDMI I do think there is still some conversion going on.* The phone itself will standardize the output before it goes through the HDMI.
> 
> ...


I'm 99% sure that's not the case. HDMI carries a standard PCM signal, don't think they would mess with it there and not for USB or S/PDIF outs. There have even been some attempts to make audiophile quality HDMI DACs, but none have made it to market last time I checked.

This is one from HRT that they were promoting a while back but it's nowhere to be found now.

http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/663399/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL









I have an Apple digital AV adapter that I could run some test on to know for sure but unfortunately my sound card took a dump last year and I don't have a HDMI to S/PDIF extractor. 

I can show someone how to do it if that have the adapter, extract, and a sound card with digital output/inputs that aren't changed by the windows OS (can't be an ASIO path either since the measurement freeware measurement software does not support it).


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Very informational thread! Gives me another reason to like my LG G3!

You could use the 6-8 with the Bluetooth module. This would be an all-in-one option.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

I like the new set up, very similar to what I've done. 

I saw that Bluetooth adapter when I was looking for one with optical out. In my case I wanted something without a battery, that way I could have it power on/off with the ignition.

For car/music friendly apps, look into Car Home Ultra for a car mode home screen and Poweramp for a music player. You can set up Car Home Ultra to launch on the Bluetooth connection and Poweramp to start playing. Poweramp also has separate eq presets for Bluetoogh vs headphones.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

BlueGhost said:


> Poweramp also has separate eq presets for Bluetoogh vs headphones.


And it automatically toggles between the two? I didn't know it could do that b/c I haven't been using the tone controls. But that is sweet.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

94VG30DE said:


> And it automatically toggles between the two? I didn't know it could do that b/c I haven't been using the tone controls. But that is sweet.


Yes, you get the option to assign presets to the phone speaker, headset, bluetooth, or a song. 

Hopefully they eventually let you assign different presets for each bluetooth device. It would be nice to have a different eq curves for my truck and my helmet speakers when I'm on the bike.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I'm 99% sure that's not the case. HDMI carries a standard PCM signal, don't think they would mess with it there and not for USB or S/PDIF outs. There have even been some attempts to make audiophile quality HDMI DACs, but none have made it to market last time I checked.
> 
> This is one from HRT that they were promoting a while back but it's nowhere to be found now.
> 
> ...


What happens if you feed a 44.1kHz signal? Does it come out 48kHz through the HDMI? If so, then it gets resampled somewhere along the line.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> What happens if you feed a 44.1kHz signal? Does it come out 48kHz through the HDMI? If so, then it gets resampled somewhere along the line.


Ah yes, forgot about that. And I just remembered my receiver has an input status menu that tells you all about the incoming digital signal. So I connected my iPhone6 to the digi av adapter and hdmi out into the receiver and played a 44.1kHz song. Showed a 48kHz PCM signal. 

Here's the problem though. All car and home DSP's have a native sample rate of 48kHz (minus the Helix pro that runs at 96kHz). They might support anything on the input but it's getting up/down sampled eventually.. The only difference is at which point in the signal chain it's done and the quality of that conversion process. But devices have been coming with seamless high end ASRC chips to do that for more than 10 years now. So I can't see the one in an modern high quality HDMI out being anything you'd notice.

By the way, the Apple TV does that same conversion internally for hdmi and optical I believe. Maybe the Airenabler does the same. But again it doesn't matter since it's gonna happen somewhere eventually if using a DSP.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Ah yes, forgot about that. And I just remembered my receiver has an input status menu that tells you all about the incoming digital signal. So I connected my iPhone6 to the digi av adapter and hdmi out into the receiver and played a 44.1kHz song. Showed a 48kHz PCM signal.
> 
> Here's the problem though. All car and home DSP's have a native sample rate of 48kHz (sans the Helix pro that runs at 96kHz). They might support anything on the input but it's getting up/down sampled eventually.. The only difference is at which point in the signal chain it's done and the quality of that conversion process. But devices have been coming with seamless high end ASRC chips to do that for more than 10 years now. So I can't see the one in an modern high quality HDMI out being anything you'd notice.
> 
> By the way, the Apple TV does that same conversion internally for hdmi and optical I believe. Maybe the Airenabler does the same. But again it doesn't matter since it's gonna happen somewhere eventually if using a DSP.


That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know these car processors have only one internal language so to speak. 

I suppose that at best the APTx can only match the HDMI performance. I'm hoping for it! 

I'll probably have only two connections on the car. The wireless APTx route and then a wired 3.5mm. The 3.5mm will be a backup in case the wireless system has temporary bugs. The good thing about a wired minijack connection is that it always works.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> The good thing about a wired minijack connection is that it always works.


True that. I have one for the same reason.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

First impressions of Note 4 connected to Grace Digital GDI-BTPB300 3Play Jukebox Bluetooth Adapter. 

*Cons *
The range is literally 10 feet max without obstructions. It seems to be even shorter on my roomate's Nexus 5
looks and feels cheap

*Pro*
Fun playing with the 3play Android app. We can switch between phones instantly. 
Supper small

I will have to do some testing VS non-APTx BT receiver. I have a Belkin with optical out to compare.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Thanks for the update. Yeah, I don't know why the range & reception of these type of BT adapters are so poor. It's definitely not the Note 4 that is limiting the range or reception! My Arcam rBlink has excellent range with all of my portable BT devices, but it has an external antenna and is much more expensive. However, it is a solid, heavy unit with great build quality, while still small, and never drops the connection unless I go about 50-75 ft from the car!

I can also positively re-confirm that the Note 4's BT is connecting using the Apt-X protocol. The "Apt-X" indicator lights up on the front panel display of my Oppo HA-1 DAC/Preamp/Headphone Amp when connected to the Note 4 via BT. 

Maybe you can open up your Grace Digital unit and add the appropriate length of wire as an antenna for the 2.4ghz frequency band. If you tested it inside your house, and also have WiFi and a Cordless Phone, you might be getting some serious interference...all of these operate on the 2.4gHz band! This could be the reason for the 10ft limit you experienced.  Even your microwave oven uses 2.4gHz wavelengths and can cause interference.

I have this cheap >$20 BT iPod dock adapter (non-Apt-X) that I use with my Bose SoundDock Portable boombox on my location photo shoots. It measures about 3/16" thick x 1-1/2" square (Triscuit cracker size) and plugs into any 30-pin iPod Dock connector. Outdoors, I can walk about 100ft away with my Galaxy Note 2 in my pocket before it starts cutting out. Go figure! Go to eBay and search for "Bluetooth a2dp ipod adapter dock".

For bit-perfect, true Hi-Res 24/192+ playback and output to your DAC from the Note 4, use the _USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO_ app from the Google Play Store. It has it's own USB audio driver that completely bypasses the Android kernal's USB Audio Driver that limits all output to 16/48. Other Android music player apps can _play_ 24/192 files with no problem, but will all be down-sampled by the internal Android USB Audio driver to 16/48 before being spit out of the USB host connection. _UAPP_ bypasses this limitation, but is not as feature-rich as other music player apps. It's kind of similar to _FLAC PLAYER PRO_ for iOS.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Thanks for the update. Yeah, I don't know why the range & reception of these type of BT adapters are so poor. It's definitely not the Note 4 that is limiting the range or reception! My Arcam rBlink has excellent range with all of my portable BT devices, but it has an external antenna and is much more expensive. However, it is a solid, heavy unit with great build quality, while still small, and never drops the connection unless I go about 50-75 ft from the car!
> 
> This one looks really good except Alpine H800 does not have coax, nor do I have AC plugs in the car. I'll check out my Onkyo receiver to see if I can use it at home. I really do need the range. Small house but we play music at parties with a dozen+ people around. What did you do for power in the car?
> 
> ...


That is a ton of good info.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

I power the Arcam rBlink with an inexpensive 12v DC-DC converter similar to this one:

DC DC Converters Regulator Reducer 12V to 7 5V | eBay

You can also use one like the one linked below if you need a different output voltage:

15A DC DC Converter Buck Adjustable 4 32V 12V to 1 2 32V 3 3 5V Power Regulator | eBay

To derive a Toslink Opical signal from the digital Coaxial output of the Arcam rBlink for your H800, the above DC-DC converter can also power a Digital S/PDIF Coaxial to Toslink Optical Converter such as these:

RadioShack Optical Toslink to Coaxial Digital Audio Converter 1500059 | eBay

Coax Coaxial Orange Jack to Toslink Digital Optical Audio Converter USA Seller | eBay


Regarding the Android USB Audio Player Pro app, it is meant to be used with a direct USB OTG _cable_ (hard-wired) connection to a compatible DAC of your choice from your Android smartphone/Galaxy Note 4:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XYy1FuzDUeQ0ZnYlB5SzlWVWs/preview?pli=1

And you are correct, when using Bluetooth, even with Apt-X CSR, the frequency band and BT Spec/Protocol does not have the bandwidth to support anything over 16/44.1 IIRC, so all audio signals transmitted via wireless BT connectivity will be down-sampled/converted to 16/44.1. Still, it will be VERY close to Redbook CD quality. Ask Frank if we can hear anything above that for playback purposes...check out this link...

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

...and check out his "What We Hear" link.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> I power the Arcam rBlink with an inexpensive 12v DC-DC converter similar to this one:
> 
> DC DC Converters Regulator Reducer 12V to 7 5V | eBay
> 
> ...


So I suppose this means I should ditch the 3.5mm jack and go with this wired option now that all work has been done. 

Are you using this setup right now? This audio player app is it a wrapper such that Spotify and say Sound Cloud get better sq? Or is it that you can play only music you saved on your phone?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> So I suppose this means I should ditch the 3.5mm jack and go with this wired option now that all work has been done.
> 
> Are you using this setup right now? This audio player app is it a wrapper such that Spotify and say Sound Cloud get better sq? Or is it that you can play only music you saved on your phone?


Just so you know, the compression alogrithim that SoundCloud uses when you are STREAMING music from their site is quite poor. I believe Spotify is much better, but haven't researched to verify. Search for a member named "immersifi" on SoundCloud and look for the link on the left about the site's streaming quality. The quality is fine if you actually download the files from the site (assuming that the user has supplied good files). 

"Immersifi" is a really nice gentleman named Mark A. Jay...a recording engineer who makes binaural recordings for the most part. He has made a ton of his recordings available to download free of charge on SoundCloud in either FLAC or 320kbps MP3 format. He's made some spectacular recordings. One of my favorites is an amazing live set by The Cowboy Junkies, which is actually hosted on another archive site but there is a link to it on his SC page. He also goes by "Immersifi" on the Head-Fi forums. Check it out.

Regarding the UAPP app, no it is not an all-encompassing wrapper. ATM, it will only play actual audio files via the app itself from the smartphone's local storage and/or micro-SD card. Get yourself a 128gb Sandisk micro-SDXC card and pop it in your Note 4.. 

However the UAPP developer has been steadily implementing new features and I believe he is working on media server/NAS playback functionality among many other things, which might include "wrapper" functionality...I haven't checked for updates there in a while. You can go to the Google Play Store to find the "USB Audio Player Pro" page and follow the web site link for FAQs, and detailed information regarding current and future functionality or WIP.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I set out to test the Grace Digital Bluetooth receiver and realized quite early on it was worthless. The range is so poor that I can't even play music from the couch without interruption. That is, 6 feet and no obstacles. 

I am returning this unit. Next, I bought the rBlink Arcam. At least my home receiver will take in coax no problem. If I like it a lot I guess I have to get converters for power and coax to optical.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Wow, 6 feet. That's abysmal!  Let me know how the rBlink works out for you. I've had great results with it. Unfortunately, uz got to _Pay to Play_, LOL.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Wow, 6 feet. That's abysmal!  Let me know how the rBlink works out for you. I've had great results with it. Unfortunately, uz got to _Pay to Play_, LOL.


Yeah, and when it disconnects id sounds like a DC short. With active planars and 1000w on tap I got a little scared for their health. 

$250 is a lot, especially if I get two. that's a Playstation 4 right there.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> $250 is a lot, especially if I get two.


Especially when you consider how much a normal cable would cost... That's the number I fight.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

94VG30DE said:


> Especially when you consider how much a normal cable would cost... That's the number I fight.


Haha, it's a war worth winning.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

That rBlink seems a little expensive. My aptX adapter with optical out from monoprice was only $50, and I have about another $10 in an 12v to 5v usb adapter and power cable.

Mine was good for about 50 feet and 4 interior walls when I tested it at the house. I still need to finish up my install in the truck before I can see how it will do in that environment.


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## rayray881 (Jul 15, 2013)

I just ordered a Startech Bluetooth receiver for $50 from Amazon. It has aptx, digital out, and a built in Wolfson dac which I am going to use off of my 80PRS. Im just looking for better sound thru bluetooth using Spotify and my new phone with aptx. Will update once I get it.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

BlueGhost said:


> That rBlink seems a little expensive. My aptX adapter with optical out from monoprice was only $50, and I have about another $10 in an 12v to 5v usb adapter and power cable.
> 
> Mine was good for about 50 feet and 4 interior walls when I tested it at the house. I still need to finish up my install in the truck before I can see how it will do in that environment.


I tried that Monoprice unit as well before getting the rBlink. Sound quality seems good with the Monoprice unit. Range was decent as well, but definitely not as good as the rBlink. Did you test it in your house using the Optical output? I had a slight thump when changing tracks and then clicking if paused for any length of time. I also mounted the Monoprice unit fairly close to my Class D amps in the car and that seemed to really affect its range. Test it thoroughly in your install before you permanently mount it.

What is nice about the rBlink is that you can buy an extension cable for the antenna and mount it remotely if that helps in your install. I admit that it would be nice if it had Toslink Optical built in as well.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

bbfoto said:


> I tried that Monoprice unit as well before getting the rBlink. Sound quality seems good with the Monoprice unit. Range was decent as well, but definitely not as good as the rBlink. Did you test it in your house using the Optical output? I had a slight thump when changing tracks and then clicking if paused for any length of time. I also mounted the Monoprice unit fairly close to my Class D amps in the car and that seemed to really affect its range. Test it thoroughly in your install before you permanently mount it.
> 
> What is nice about the rBlink is that you can buy an extension cable for the antenna and mount it remotely if that helps in your install. I admit that it would be nice if it had Toslink Optical built in as well.


I was using the analog out when I tested the Monoprice receiver in the house. 

I have tested it in the truck, using the optical out, and so far I haven't noticed any thumps when pausing or changing tracks. But I've only listened to a hand full of songs. I hope to wrap up the install this weekend, then I'll see how it works with everything mounted and the seat bolted back in place.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I got the rBlink today...OMG what a beast! 

Pros:
Range is well, breathtaking. To break connection it wasn't enough to take the phone down to the bedroom level of the house, a whole floor under, but I had to put it under the bed... Impressive! 

Sound quality is better than the Grace Digital unit too, best bluetooth system I've ever heard. The only connection period that got close to this was laptop to receiver using wired external audio card with optical connection. 

Extremely simple to use

Very very good ergonomics, nearly 1 pound heavy too. 

CONS:

nothing yet!

My roomate's phone doesn't seem to sound as good, it is a Nexus. I doubt it has APTX but I haven't really done the blindfold tests yet.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

How's the initialization time?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> How's the initialization time?


As in, the first time you connect? It has a button for pairing. You press it and it instantly appears in range. It then almost instantly pairs. 

It doesn't auto connect to a paired device like say, Pioneer's BT module does but then again I don't think any stand alone devices do.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> I got the rBlink today...OMG what a beast!
> 
> Pros:
> Range is well, breathtaking. To break connection it wasn't enough to take the phone down to the bedroom level of the house, a whole floor under, but I had to put it under the bed... Impressive!
> ...


 
Like I said, "Youz got to Pay to Play!" LOL.  Best one I've used so far as well...wasted too much time and money on the "cheapies" and I should have just bought the rBlink in the first place. Just wish it had Optical output as well...that would make it perfect, IMO.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Like I said, "Youz got to Pay to Play!" LOL.  Best one I've used so far as well...wasted too much time and money on the "cheapies" and I should have just bought the rBlink in the first place. Just wish it had Optical output as well...that would make it perfect, IMO.


Indeed. The power connection doesn't bother me that much. Any BT module would need some sort of power adapter. USB would be easier but wouldn't require any fewer conversions. 

What input do you have in terms of coax digital to optical digital conversion? Any losses there?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> As in, the first time you connect? It has a button for pairing. You press it and it instantly appears in range. It then almost instantly pairs.
> 
> It doesn't auto connect to a paired device like say, Pioneer's BT module does but then again I don't think any stand alone devices do.


No i mean how much time do you have to wait from the time it gets power till when you can connect to it.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> No i mean how much time do you have to wait from the time it gets power till when you can connect to it.


I just tested it. Removed power cord. Pressed pair button to flush the system of any left over juice stored on the board. Plugged power back in, pressed scan on my phone, and selected Arcam rBlink. It all took 2 seconds or so. 

Basically, it's instant.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> I just tested it. Removed power cord. Pressed pair button to flush the system of any left over juice stored on the board. Plugged power back in, pressed scan on my phone, and selected Arcam rBlink. It all took 2 seconds or so.
> 
> Basically, it's instant.


Cool, thanks.


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## UNFORGIVEN (Sep 25, 2010)

Sorry to but in but any options to wired connections. please PM me
I purchased a HDMI S/PDIF extractor and Apple A/V Converter for my 6. 
Can't get it to work properly in vehicle... might go back to the Pure i20 and Older iphone


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## Capolan (Apr 9, 2014)

bbfoto said:


> Like I said, "Youz got to Pay to Play!" LOL.  Best one I've used so far as well...wasted too much time and money on the "cheapies" and I should have just bought the rBlink in the first place. Just wish it had Optical output as well...that would make it perfect, IMO.


Just bringing a PM session we're having about this into the thread as it may be helpful.

Question - A few times I see you mention that you wish the r/Blink had optical out -- why would you want that over digital coax? aren't they essentially the same? (I don't know - so I'm not being snarky here - just asking!)

can you describe the pairing process - does it auto connect? does it auto re-connect if it fails out? what happens if you get a call? my other big question is -- if you have to hit the button to connect with this, do you have to do that every time? I want to know so i don't mount it in the trunk thinking that will work and I can never easily connect to it.

Also - it seems I'm not alone in looking essentially for what that monoprice box does (and as I mentioned in our talks - the Nuforce BM-100, and the various other black box copies out there) which is receive a signal well and output it pure to a higher quality DAC. If you know of one, please let me know.


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## diegoejea (May 11, 2009)

Hi all,

Very interesting thread! According to this post (in spanish), APTX is a lossy codec, and it reduces the 96 db dynamic range of the CD to 92 dBs with APTX.

El sonido por Bluetooth pierde calidad? La respuesta definitiva...

It sounds logical, because the APT X max bitrate is 382 kbps, so it needs to eliminate some information from a CD stream.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Here's another candidate....

Introducing the new Bluetooth Audio streaming accessories for Mosconi DSP devices. | EMMA UK

DSP-AMAS 2


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

I purchased a rocketfish blutooth adapter with optical out. I then purchased a 12v to 5v transformer. I have power on my remote lead (driven by a phonix gold dd10) so that it turns on and off. Ever time I start my car my phone links. It has worked 100% of the time for the past several months. There is no pair button. I use the opt to my h800 processor and it sounds fantastic.
The only slow part, letting someone else get on it. I have to turn of my blutooth, wait a min, then they can log on.
It was less than $50


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

has anyone tried the Parts Express Sure Electronics bluetooth with Apt-X 4.0, card?

~25 bucks, seems like a lower priced unit that does the work?

thinking about using one to pair a cheapie Galaxy Centura to the car and home.


the Galaxy Centura comes with bluetooth version 3.0, according to the specs. Does that mean it's not necessary to get the good AptX receiver, then, and just go with a cheapie?

I'm thinking of using the bluetooth receiver, along with a Visteon Zoom HD Radio tuner, sending their output into a signal source switcher, I think Sony makes one? then into an MS-2, then line driver with remote volume control, into the amps.

what I'm attempting is to create a system inside of a vehicle totally autonomous from the stock system, except for the switched power source at the ignition.

I'd also like auto connect functions, pairing, whatever. 

I understand the bluetooth 3.0 is not as nice as the 4.0 but isn't it just for low power applications that the differences show up?

so, I have the phone, the HD tuner kit, the MS-2, and the amps and speakers.

what I'll need is the line driver with remote volume knob, the Sure bluetooth card, and the Sony source switching unit, I believe?

anything sounds like it won't work? I'm not worried about optical, and the parts I do have are it, I'm not buying a new smartphone to make this a go either.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

bring up this thread?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

No clue. I go wired USB since I can benefit from the charge time. And eventually would like to have a dedicated iPod permanently mounted and tethered to my iPhone for Siri music nav purposes. 

Which also frees me up from having hands-free alerts and calls constantly interrupting my music flow.  Hands-free calls will be delegated to an external Bluetooth receiver which will be piped back into the music stream through a pro audio multi input mixer. With an on/off toggle on phone input.

Clear as mud?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I've been enjoying the new car lately. Haven't done anything audio yet, except take of the door panel to measure how big of a 10" can fit. 

I'm really happy with the Arcam for home use. I will buy an optical converter next to see how well it works.


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## ROWDY (Jan 1, 2013)

I too am trying to go lossless from my smart phone to a DSP. When I saw the new Mosconi DSP with Bluetooth streaming DSP-AMAS or another similar product from HELIX http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/helix/products/accessory/hec-bt.html I thought awesome but our Australian Distributor says the streaming over Bluetooth is still not lossless and only the wireless LAN type streaming can do it. Only device I have seen that can do that is the Audison BitPlay HD http://www.audison.eu/bitplayhd which is an expensive item just to get lossless digital out of my phone. Anyone seen anything else or know / tested this Bluetooth APT-X as companies would have you believe it is lossless and it reads like that but i'm still not convinced. Even reading the spec sheet on it is above my head 
On another note the device I currently use is this ROTAC RAL -RATOC Audio lab- iPod DDC RAL-1648iP1 which no one has mentioned I think. Not sure if it is still available or iphone 6 compatible tho. This item is hard wired to my 4S iPhone with the normal IPhone cable or I use a Audioquest one . No wireless dropouts + charging + lossless Toslink out to Audison Bit1 as I'm still awiting the controller for my PS8.
I need a new phone and want to drop Apple due to 16bit limit and normal Apple restrictions and would like to go Android but no perfect solutions yet that I have found or is there??


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Hey ROWDY, welcome to DIYMA. Where are you in Oz? I have family in Sydney (St. Ives & Bondi) and Brisbane, though I'm in Los Angeles.

Now, if you read through this thread you will see several mentions that in fact, Apt-X Bluetooth is Not completely Lossless, and will just support up to 16 bit/44.1kHz sample rate. However, it is VERY close to being CD quality...so close that unless you have a nearly world-class system, you will not be able to tell the difference.

I don't have heaps of time at the moment, but I'll come back here and post more info and other options soon. You might get more ideas if you read through the thread again as well. Plus, there are a few other threads on this topic if you do a bit of searching.

Cheers!

Billy B.


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## tonny (Dec 4, 2010)

I tested the mosconi amas module in my 6to8 with my iPhone and the sound was really good! on the same level as my Clarion hxd2 just a bit different. 

In another car I tested a iPhone and a android phone next to each other with the amass module, the iPhone was way better in sound then the android phone.


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## ROWDY (Jan 1, 2013)

I would have thought there would be no difference between two phones to the AMAS playing the same material as the DACs in each would not be used. Wonder what is going on there......


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## adam_rostron (Jun 14, 2014)

Who did you speak to in Australia?

the guys at northfield marooka / mobile audio solutions have this setup in their BMW and said that the quality is really good.

If you do some reading about the AMAS units they send a sample of 44kz/16bit directly to the processors input. so the quality should be there, providing that the media you are sending to it is up to date


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

After looking at everything you guys posted I am way to excited to get started looking at different devices. My eventual goal is to get something simular to the oppo HA-1.. I was thinking of creating something with the Raspberry Pi or a combination of equipement... 

Even though the New Sony is coming out I bet there are some ways to create something like it.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

matdotcom2000 said:


> After looking at everything you guys posted I am way to excited to get started looking at different devices. My eventual goal is to get something simular to the oppo HA-1.. I was thinking of creating something with the Raspberry Pi or a combination of equipement...
> 
> Even though the New Sony is coming out I bet there are some ways to create something like it.


This info was posted in another thread by Frank (t3sn4f2) regarding the Amazing audio quality output of the iPhone 6/6+ analog headphone output:

Apple iPhone 6 Plus Review


*by Ken Rockwell...

"Audio performance compared

Holy cow; I tested a Beyerdynamic A200p DAC and headphone amp at the same time I had the iPhone 6 Plus in my audio lab, and the iPhone 6 Plus beat it! The iPhone 6 Plus has less distortion, flatter frequency response and much better ability to drive low-impedance headphones with low distortion than the dedicated portable amp!

While all iOS devices have always sounded great if you have good transfers, the audio output of the iPhone 6 Plus is now so improved that it sounds and measures about as well as professional reference DACs like the Benchmark DAC1 HDR, and better than many consumer DACs.

The iPhone 6 Plus even has flatter response than the Benchmark DAC1 HDR! Of course an iPhone and a plug-in-the-wall professional DAC are intended for entirely different purposes, but if the 1 volt RMS output (6 dB less than good outboard DACs and CD players) and 3.5mm jack do it for you, there's no reason not to use the iPhone's output for critical listening.

The iPhone 6 is a better analog audio source than many audiophile products, but the cottage industry created around selling you DACs and other accessories you don't need doesn't want you to know. Remember that accessory dealers, manufacturers and publications that accept advertising from these makers have a vested interest in trying to create FUD about the iPhone's audio quality. Don't believe them and listen for yourself.

Apple has more smart engineers and far more resources than any other audio specialty company. It makes perfect sense that the iPhone output should be spectacular.

No longer do you need to waste money on DACs and headphone amplifiers, at least for most portable (low-impedance) headphones. Save your money and spend it on more music instead.

Hint: Always leave the iPhone's level all the way up when using it as a program source fed to preamp." - Ken Rockwell*


So maybe you really don't really need any crazy, complicated setup.  If you don't have an iPhone 6/6+, you probably know somebody that does. Just hook it up to your RCA inputs on your DSP and try some of your favorite SQ Tracks in ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec).

This would also allow you to charge your phone in your car as you normally would. Just beware that a lot of USB Cigarette Lighter USB car chargers are very noisy (tons of RFI/EMI noise) and that noise will make it's way into the RCA cables if they are both in close proximity to each other.

If you are using an Android device, try the SMSL X-USB. It works great for me and will play Hi-Res formats.

http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-X-USB-Coaxial-Converter-Interface/dp/B00UX5LGAA/


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

what about "Rainbow DSP" and its proprietary WIFI streaming add on?... Should be a good option to get nearest to lossless wireless solution?

I like it because wifi transmission are a lot more battery saver than Bluetooth does... but I am not know about SQ benefits...


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

cvjoint said:


> Behringer said no go, the card is not stand alone. It requires windows to set the optical on.
> 
> Behringer and Creative 1 everyone else 0. At least Behringer and Creative answered to my email with relevant information.


Not sure if anyone cares or not (old thread/post) but I use the UCA 202 with iPad and CCK all the time to inject digital optical signals int DSP units for testing and stuff. The optical output is always "on" so long as you're using the uca 202 as an OUTPUT. Like, generating test tones with AudioTools for iOS or playing music. I have confirmed It (optical out) works with both android and iOS.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

ANDRESVELASCO said:


> what about "Rainbow DSP" and its proprietary WIFI streaming add on?... Should be a good option to get nearest to lossless wireless solution?
> 
> I like it because wifi transmission are a lot more battery saver than Bluetooth does... but I am not know about SQ benefits...


Whoa, things are changing. I just downloaded the app, simple and useful. I will definitely consider this one!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Niick said:


> Not sure if anyone cares or not (old thread/post) but I use the UCA 202 with iPad and CCK all the time to inject digital optical signals int DSP units for testing and stuff. The optical output is always "on" so long as you're using the uca 202 as an OUTPUT. Like, generating test tones with AudioTools for iOS or playing music. I have confirmed It (optical out) works with both android and iOS.


How do you set the UCA as an output? Is it on the box itself or within Android app?


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

cvjoint said:


> How do you set the UCA as an output? Is it on the box itself or within Android app?


I have used UCA202 a while. Worked perfectly with Galaxy S4 through the otg-cable. Optical out worked all the time - connected directly to DSP (APL1, which was activated by a signal from UCA202 to switch to the digital in). Volume control in this case - by smartphone.

No issues with this sound card. The only limitation - no support of 24 bits files.

Now I am using external DAC/soundcard: Meridian Explorer (capable of 192/24). 

From Android 5.0 almost all devices have original support of USB Audio. There are some apps on Google-play which convert a smartphone to a host mode and allow digital sound through miniUSB.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Alextaastrup said:


> I have used UCA202 a while. Worked perfectly with Galaxy S4 through the otg-cable. Optical out worked all the time - connected directly to DSP (APL1, which was activated by a signal from UCA202 to switch to the digital in). Volume control in this case - by smartphone.
> 
> No issues with this sound card. The only limitation - no support of 24 bits files.
> 
> ...


Awesome. Thank you very much! 

I decided to go with the Alpine H800 + Audioengine B1 bluetooth receiver. The B1 seems like a high end piece, long range for little cut-off, optical out, APTX low loss transmission to Androids with APTX, and universal charge port so I can use a 12V adapter sold on Amazon. 

I figure I'd go with plug and play and nearly lossless wireless transmission. Easy to use and nearly perfect sq. Buying it all tomorrow and installing it in the next month.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I've actually got a 12v modded airport express that plugs to USB for power I was considering using for this purpose to run toslink to DSP I could sell if anyone's interested. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

cvjoint said:


> Awesome. Thank you very much!
> 
> I decided to go with the Alpine H800 + Audioengine B1 bluetooth receiver. The B1 seems like a high end piece, long range for little cut-off, optical out, APTX low loss transmission to Androids with APTX, and universal charge port so I can use a 12V adapter sold on Amazon.
> 
> I figure I'd go with plug and play and nearly lossless wireless transmission. Easy to use and nearly perfect sq. Buying it all tomorrow and installing it in the next month.


i've been using a new Auris bt. it works well so i'd think that audioengine will be just the same.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

jtaudioacc said:


> i've been using a new Auris bt. it works well so i'd think that audioengine will be just the same.


Wow, that looks top notch. I'll give it a try if the audioengine disappoints


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Babs said:


> I've actually got a 12v modded airport express that plugs to USB for power I was considering using for this purpose to run toslink to DSP I could sell if anyone's interested.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


I am! Now that I have digit-in with the APL, maybe I could get rid of my istreamer and simplify the chain


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