# Full Signal location in Ram 1500 w/Alpine System



## Badger203 (Nov 29, 2008)

I just bought a 2014 RAM 1500 CC with the Alpine system. I want upgrade my system and I have spent the last few days reading all the posts I could find about the Alpine system.

Everything I am reading says the amp is located in the left footwell and to get full signal I need to tap the rear channels since they are the closest to full signal. After reviewing the wiring diagrams I have to ask, why can't I just hit the speaker signal on the back of the head on its way to the amp?

The output at the head is LF, RF, RR, LR only and is fed to the amp. The Alpine amp appears to be where the magic happens. Coming from the amp is where the ten separate outputs show up. So my logic tells me there is a DSP in the amp and everything is processed there.

Wouldn't it be possible to grab the signal as it leaves the head? I plan on adding a MS-8 and then out to my amps, so by my thinking I'd be doing the same thing the current amp does, but, aftermarket instead of OEM.

I am planning on 3.5 coaxial dash speakers with a dedicated DSP center channel, 6.5 mid bass in the doors, 6x9 coax in the rear doors for fill and two 10" subs. The jury is still out on brands and amp sizes; I'm having trouble coming up with a solution for getting full signal.

Can anyone offer any thoughts or guide me to what I might be missing?

Thanks in advance.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

A lot of your questions are discussed in this thread.....except sub the LOC with your DSP

New Member, new 2013 R/T ALPINE....where to hook up LOC for sub? [Archive] - DODGE RAM FORUM - Ram Forums and Owners Club! - Dodge Truck Forum

Apparently you should tap into the wires BEFORE the factory amp for the best signal.


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## Hoye0017 (Mar 23, 2010)

The last one of those I worked on with the Alpine system, the volume control was in the amp and one of the wires in the deck to amp harness was a digital control wire that sent the control signals to the amp. We had to use an adapter from PAC that took both signals and provided volume controlled outputs. I believe the center channel was driven directly off the deck too.


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## kkreit01 (Aug 27, 2009)

There isn't a full-range signal after the amp. The rear speakers aren't close. The front mids aren't either. If you tap before the amp, you lose control of the signal -- due to canbus. This system is a nightmare to upgrade. Until you sum the signals, you won't be happy.


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## Badger203 (Nov 29, 2008)

> There isn't a full-range signal after the amp. The rear speakers aren't close. The front mids aren't either. If you tap before the amp, you lose control of the signal -- due to canbus. This system is a nightmare to upgrade. Until you sum the signals, you won't be happy.


OK, now we're getting to the stuff I have been thinking about.

If I tap between the head and the amp; what do you mean "lose control of the signal?" I don't understand the CanBus system. Looking at the diagrams; it looks like everything is interconnected; but, the sound signal goes over the outputs from the head to the amp. Is there data sent over the CanBus; kinda like packet data over a network, telling the amp if there is info missing from the signal sent from the head?

I'm thinking if I leave the system intact (amp hooked up to the head); but, disconnect all the speakers and replace them with aftermarket, the OEM won't know the difference. The computer will still "see" everything is present and working it just won't know the speakers are disconnected or will it.

Or am I still missing something? I understand summing and I will do that if it is the only way, I'm just trying to grasp why there is not a full signal leaving the head and going to the amp and why sourcing from there causes a problem.

Sorry to be so thick.


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## kkreit01 (Aug 27, 2009)

Based on what I've read, if you tap behind the HU, (before amp), you'll lose EQ (bass, treble, mid) control from your head unit. This is also the case if you use the PAC interface. I have not tried what you've said. In my Ram, I summed the signals after the amp. I tried many other combinations (cheap methods), and they all failed. Since you already have the MS-8, it shouldn't be difficult to sum. 

I also didn't like dash speakers. I tried a few coax in there, and they all sounded bad. I didn't have DSP though. I was using AC LC6i for summing. I kept the center speaker off OE amp -- for Uconnect/navi voice. Otherwise, this voice sounded muddled (odd) after summing. A set of quality components up front (with tweets mounted in door or sail panel), nice sub, optional rear 6x9s should product good results. You could do 3-way up front by utilizing a 3" mid in the dash locations. IMO, 3.5" coaxials just didn't sound good. 

The deeper you get into this system, the more frustrated you will be. You are smart to start with DSP. Everyone has different ears, so you may have the try a few things until you are happy.


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## Badger203 (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info.

I can see where getting signal before the amp could result in loss of EQ function. From what I know of CanBus, the signal to increase bass,treble, etc.,would be sent over the CanBus, telling the amp to carry out the command.

I guess I will start to lean toward summing after the amp. I am planning to use either a two way front stage through the MS-8 or a one way with a passive crossover to a three way set of speakers. I had a set of ADS 6 1/2 that sounded amazing and I'm sorry I ever parted with them, that's the sound I'm trying to get back to. Whether it is with a 2 way or 3 way.

I plan to have at least one left over MS-8 output to create a center channel. I have read that the center channel on the MS-8 is for mono signal, so things like news, talk radio, phone and nav (I hope) sound normal.

Time to start picking gear and find a weekend to tear it open and see what I get.


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## riored4v (Jan 21, 2012)

Bumping an old thread.

I'm getting ready to install a AC LC6i in my Ram Quad Cab that also has the Alpine system.

From what I've gathered, I need to tap the front, rear and sub signals to receive a full range signal for the LC6i. Does anyone happen to have a wiring diagram so I know which wires to tap as they come out of the factory Alpine amp?


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

riored4v said:


> Bumping an old thread.
> 
> I'm getting ready to install a AC LC6i in my Ram Quad Cab that also has the Alpine system.
> 
> From what I've gathered, I need to tap the front, rear and sub signals to receive a full range signal for the LC6i. Does anyone happen to have a wiring diagram so I know which wires to tap as they come out of the factory Alpine amp?


https://techauthorityonlinedemo.extra.chrysler.com/service/repair/wiring/view/classic.htm


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## riored4v (Jan 21, 2012)

JVD240 said:


> https://techauthorityonlinedemo.extra.chrysler.com/service/repair/wiring/view/classic.htm


Thanks! Very helpful.

Also, I was told since I'm only wiring up a sub, that I could just use the signal from the wires at the factory sub. If that's the case, and looking at the wiring diagram, there appears to be 4 wires going to the sub. Two from the C1 connector and two from the C2 connector. How would I know which ones to use?

*edit* dumb question. I typed before I thought lol. Just realized its a left and signal. So to clarify the question, how do I know which set of wires is right and left? Or does it really matter with the sub signal?


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## kkreit01 (Aug 27, 2009)

^ You can find complete, detailed wiring here:

WK2Jeeps.com - 2011-2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee menu page

Yes, _Alpine_ in Jeep will have the same color-codes as in Ram. I used it when I did my Ram. You wouldn't have needed an LC6i if you are only adding a sub. An LC2i would have been fine, or no LOC if your amp has high-level inputs. But, now you have the capability to sum, if you plan yo go further.


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

riored4v said:


> Thanks! Very helpful.
> 
> Also, I was told since I'm only wiring up a sub, that I could just use the signal from the wires at the factory sub. If that's the case, and looking at the wiring diagram, there appears to be 4 wires going to the sub. Two from the C1 connector and two from the C2 connector. How would I know which ones to use?
> 
> *edit* dumb question. I typed before I thought lol. Just realized its a left and signal. So to clarify the question, how do I know which set of wires is right and left? Or does it really matter with the sub signal?


Don't quote me on this... but I believe the OEM sub is DVC and that's the reason for the two sets of wires. L/R won't matter regardless at those frequencies. I just ran both into the MS8.

One thing I haaaaaaate about the OEM system is that the L/R dash speakers are like 10db down from everything else so you end up pulling up the noise floor to get enough HF information. The MS8 did a better job than the 3sixty.3 though. Less noise.

PAC also makes a device that interrupts the CANbus signal and gives you L/R RCA's. You lose total control of the audio on the OEM head unit though(volume,balance,fade). I was tempted to try this but a lot of reviews complained of noise. You never know who is installing though and how experienced so it's hard to judge quality based on those reviews.


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## chefbv (Nov 23, 2017)

Just finding this thread while trying to figure out the upgrade on my 2015 Ram 1500 with Alpine "premium" system and trying to determine where to pull my front/rear/sub signals from for my AudioControl DQ-61 DSP. Seems easiest to pull sub signal right from factory sub and run to DSP...as far as front/rear channels, is it better to pull from BEFORE factory amp or AFTER? Is it worth it to just use the PAC Audio AmpPro-CH41 harness and simply skip the DSP?


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## TomT (May 19, 2005)

Hi,

I have the exact same truck. I’ve done two systems in it. The first time we pulled signals from the OEM Alpine amplifier to a Bit One using standard RCAs. It was a massive pain in the ass and would not work correctly until we added resistors inline before the Bit. 

In the most recent version (I went fully active and changed EVERYTHING), we started with the (then brand new) PAC unit with the Toslink option going into Mosconi 8to12 Aerospace DSP. It was 1,000% easier and better SQ.

I’m in OC if you want to check out my setup before you finalize your plan.

TomT


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