# Zapco Symbilink DIY cables?



## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

I searched. I really did.

Is there a DIY for Zapco Symbilink cables? I have the diagrams with the pins as well as the other older printout floating around from a user manual for an amp. I've looked into mini DIN-6 plugs. What kind of cable can I use? Microphone cable? I saw Belden 1800F cable somewhere I've searched and am about to give up. Has anyone successfully used their own cabling? Could anything go wrong with DIY cables.

I've had my DC Ref amps sitting under my bed for the past 4 months because I want to avoid shelling out $200+ or so at the moment for all the cables I *think* I might need because I am poor. I was just wondering if there was a DIY option or if I should just give in and eat cheese and mac or ramen noodles for the next month.


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## 5150 ll (Mar 2, 2009)

simplyclean said:


> I searched. I really did.
> 
> Is there a DIY for Zapco Symbilink cables? I have the diagrams with the pins as well as the other older printout floating around from a user manual for an amp. I've looked into mini DIN-6 plugs. What kind of cable can I use? Microphone cable? I saw Belden 1800F cable somewhere I've searched and am about to give up. Has anyone successfully used their own cabling? Could anything go wrong with DIY cables.
> 
> I've had my DC Ref amps sitting under my bed for the past 4 months because I want to avoid shelling out $200+ or so at the moment for all the cables I *think* I might need because I am poor. I was just wondering if there was a DIY option or if I should just give in and eat cheese and mac or ramen noodles for the next month.




how many dc amps u got? i know their going for about $40 a piece


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm running a factory head, so I'm just going to get some raw RCA connectors and connect them to the front outputs of the deck. I'm going to be using a DC360.4 and 500.1 Just to get it just to work, I think I need: (1)SLRCM.01, (1)SLDIN-Y, (2)SLDIN.12. I want to control the subwoofer level too so I think I'll need another SLDIN.01 and a DBC. I'm in Canada, so I'm expecting to get porked. ($$$)


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

Ok, so the cheapest way is actually to buy some pairs and cut them up and connect the one set to the front and the other to the rear that feeds the factory sub that has a adjustable bass eq on/off centered @ 60Hz. I don't want to use it as a subcontrol, so I'll still have do buy another cable and the DRC.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

instead of hacking up a cable, look into this:
ZAPCO/Symbilink SLDIN-BTL-F NEW In Box ! - eBay (item 220371437500 end time May-01-09 14:21:05 PDT)

Zapco DC Reference Amp does NOT need another brand Line Output Converter !!! - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com

Not sure if it helps... I'll try to help later if I catch the time.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Off you HU I recommend 2 Pair RCA outs. Then you can have fader if you wanted.

Option 1-2 Pair RCA-SLDIN.T-F x 2-SLDIN. x 2 (whatever legnth you need)

Option 2-1 Pair RCA-SLDIN.T-F x 1-SLDIN. x 1 (whatever legnth)-SLDIN.Y x 1-SLDIN x 2(whatever legnth)

The SLDIN.T-F are supplied with the amps unless you bought them used and they did not give them to you.

Option 1-If you have the SLDIN.T-F you only need to buy 2 SLDIN cables + VFM-B if want a volume control for the DC500.1. This is the cheaper option. You would only need to buy 2 SLDIN and VFM if you have the SLDIN.T-F.

Option 2-If you have the SLDIN.T-F you need to buy 1 long SLDIN cable, a SLDIN.Y and 2 shorter SLDIN cables + VFM-B if you want volume control.

Hopefully this helps you out.

If you want volume control on the DC500.1 you will need a VFM-B. (whatever legnth)

The DBC does only works on the REF series of amps not the DC.

If you don't have a Zapco dealer near you I would email Robert @ Zapco and see if he can help you out, he can also verify what you need to ensure you have everything you will need the first time around.

OK.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

simplyclean said:


> Could anything go wrong with DIY cables.


Yes, actually. The Zapco backfeeds phantom power from the amp PS to any upstream preamp devices. Avoid shorting those pins or you will let the magic smoke out...

With an OE HU, UNLESS it is a common-ground output like an Audi or VW, there is no reason to hang RCAs off of it if you are using DC amps. In fact, if it is a balanced output, you need to make sure your RCA shield cases don't touch (some metal RCA ends have continuity from the (-) to the metal plug housing - if they touch, you are shorting the balanced (-) legs...)

Take the RCA-to-Balanced-Symbilink transmitters which come with the amps but which are useless to you (unless as I sad above, your OE HU is common-ground single-ended output). 

Hack the female Symbilink pigtails off at the base of the black box. Strip back carefully. Get rid of the green and blue PS wires. 

Attach those pigtails to the car. Now you can plug in an OTS M-t-M Symbilink cable in between and it will work fine. 

I am thinking of homebrew Symbilink cables for my BMW as well.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

FYI it's IEE1394 cable


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## MidnightG35X (Feb 5, 2009)

You can substitute PS/2 computer cables for the symbilink cables. I made my own adapter from my HU to my zapco's while just leaving the phantom power (+/-15V if I remember right) disconnected on the HU end. That way there is no way the zapco amp will send anything back to my HU and cause smoke


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

MidnightG35X said:


> You can substitute PS/2 computer cables for the symbilink cables. I made my own adapter from my HU to my zapco's while just leaving the phantom power (+/-15V if I remember right) disconnected on the HU end. That way there is no way the zapco amp will send anything back to my HU and cause smoke


I've said it before and I'll say it again, why would you use an inappropriate cable for an interface on an amplifier you paid an ass-load of money for?

Buy some firewire cables of the right length or more from newegg and lop the ends off.


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## MidnightG35X (Feb 5, 2009)

chad said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, why would you use an inappropriate cable for an interface on an amplifier you paid an ass-load of money for?
> 
> Buy some firewire cables of the right length or more from newegg and lop the ends off.


When I made my cable, I was in contact with Robert Rugani at Zapco. He confirmed everything I was doing would work fine with my amps. I am running an AG360 and an AG750. I have a G35 that the HU outputs a fully balanced signal that can be fed directly into the zapco amp with a mini-DIN connector. Robert sent me a PDF showing how to make my own SLDIN.BTL-F.

As for being in inappropriate cable, how is it inappropriate? If you get a shielded cable for either a PS/2 or firewire, what does it matter? Maybe I'm totally missing something, and if so, please enlighten me! To me it seems better to have a molded connector that fits directly (PS/2) while having all the necessary pinouts compared to taking a firewire cable, cutting the ends, then splicing on a mini-DIN connector. If internally the cables are the same (read: shielded), why does it matter what end is on it?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

the 1394 cable has individual shielded pairs with the power connections outside the shield of the individual pairs. The PS2 cable has a bunch of wires balled up together and shielded as a whole.


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## MidnightG35X (Feb 5, 2009)

chad said:


> the 1394 cable has individual shielded pairs with the power connections outside the shield of the individual pairs. The PS2 cable has a bunch of wires balled up together and shielded as a whole.


That makes sense. I guess my situation may be different than most. The SLDIN.BTL-F does not have the individual L/R shields terminated into anything, so those are terminated at the HU, not the amp in my case.

I think a real symbilink cable or a firewire cable would be the way to go with zapco amp to zapco amp connections though. Are there any prebuilt alternatives to symbilink cables that does not require cutting?


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

chad said:


> the 1394 cable has individual shielded pairs with the power connections outside the shield of the individual pairs. The PS2 cable has a bunch of wires balled up together and shielded as a whole.


Beat me to it


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Not sure if it helps... I'll try to help later if I catch the time.


I saw that a while back, but thanks. Please help, stock systems suck.



Genxx said:


> Hopefully this helps you out.


It does. Thanks, for the info on the sub level control.



VP Electricity said:


> I am thinking of homebrew Symbilink cables for my BMW as well.


Thanks for the info. Uh, so have you figured out what are YOU using for cable?  I wanted to keep an intact run of cables from the dash so incase I ever swap the headunit down the road. 

I posted this somewhere a while back, but figure it was time to make my own thread so I can finally get my post count up so I can post in the classifieds:

_i'm reading that cat-5 cable has anywhere between 16-20 twists per ft depending on the pair to reduce crosstalk. 

i have a 1996 csr article on balanced systems, they're saying balanced cable is spec'ed at 6 twists per ft for noise rejection @60Hz, where ac cycles but it doesn't matter because it's on a car. it continued to say that twisted-pair balanced cable exposes each wire to noise source equally and if you use untwisted wire, you'll get noise on one conductor and not the other defeating the purpose._

The car is an 08 Honda Civic Si Sedan that has a balanced line out going to the factory amp under the seat, which unfortunately in my car is picking up noise (ticks and hisses) when the car is in ignition. The headunit was already changed by Honda and along with a new harness with different ground points under a case file, that helped a little bit but it noticeable, just not as annoying.

I know about IEEE 1394, but given the potential for noise with a balanced out and crap cabling in my particular car, I don't want to be kicking myself for wasting money for the parts and time to put them together.


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

MidnightG35X said:


> When I made my cable, I was in contact with Robert Rugani at Zapco. Robert sent me a PDF showing how to make my own SLDIN.BTL-F.


If you were to do it all over again, would you have just bought the Zapco cables and what did you use? Wanna hook me up with that PDF?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

simplyclean said:


> The car is an 08 Honda Civic Si Sedan that has a balanced line out going to the factory amp under the seat, which unfortunately in my car is picking up noise (ticks and hisses) when the car is in ignition. The headunit was already changed by Honda and along with a new harness with different ground points under a case file, that helped a little bit but it noticeable, just not as annoying.


Although I have the prev generation of Si, I can attest a TON of noise, much like you are hearing. The problem is not the amp, it's not the headunit, it's everything that's NOT associated with the audio system. I would be very interested to know how far away the audio "harness" is from the main harness going back and if said harnesses are even separated. Complete isolation from the ECU and main harness in my car yielded a noise free system, but I'll be damned if I did not toy with it for a LONG time!


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

simplyclean said:


> If you were to do it all over again, would you have just bought the Zapco cables and what did you use? Wanna hook me up with that PDF?


BTL is speaker level, not balanced.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

[Edit... I'm stupid, Zapco named a product after an amplifier topology


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

see above


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

damn auto dupe


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## MidnightG35X (Feb 5, 2009)

simplyclean said:


> If you were to do it all over again, would you have just bought the Zapco cables and what did you use? Wanna hook me up with that PDF?


I would do it the way I did again. Wiring a miniDIN-6 connector was the hardest part just because the wires are small.

Here are some excerpts from my emails with Robert:
"
Robert: WE have a device that will work perfect for what you are trying to do. The Part Number is the SLDIN.BTL-F I will attach the tech info on it. We sell them already made or you can make them your self. If converts a balanced high level signal to Symbilink. 
The SLRCM cables simply convert an unbalanced cable to a balanced cable. It does not convert the signal however. The SLDIN-T.F converts and Unbalanced signal to a blanced signal in addition to having the line driver capability to boost signal voltage. In what you are doing you will need neither. 

Me: I will start off by saying I forgot to mention that my factory head unit is a preamp-only headunit. There is a separate bose amp in the trunk that all the wires run to. This means that coming out of the head unit there is only the pre-amp level fully balanced signals.

If I have preamp level only outputs going into the zapco amp, is it necessary to use the resistor/capacitor network between the headunit and the symbilink input? I am refering to the How_to_Make_a_BTL.pdf file you sent. What is the point of the resistor/capacitor network?

Robert: The load is for taping into the factory amp. Many factory amps if they do not see a load will not function properly. IN your case you could actually cut a Symbilink cable and wire it directly in. Should not be a problem at all. The capacitors are for blocking DC voltage. Once again more for taping into the factory amp rather than the preamp signal.

"

Here is a link to the files he sent me: http://home.mchsi.com/~midnightg35x/Zapco_Stuff.zip


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

I haven't had a chance to take the car apart yet or look at a Helms, but the problem only exists in a small % of sedans. The case file took 6 months of waiting and the tech at my dealer claim it was the first one being done in Canada, but meh, whatever, the noise is still there. I've sat in the coupe with factory systems and they sounded fine. My car was pretty bad because I had backseat passengers complain about the hissing.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

MidnightG35X said:


> If converts a balanced high level signal to Symbilink.
> 
> 
> The load is for taping into the factory amp. Many factory amps if they do not see a load will not function properly.
> ...


So Robert here confuses a balanced signal and a speaker signal. 

The BTL doesn't work well with preamp-level balanced signals, and it works VERY well with higher-voltage speaker-level signals.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

simplyclean said:


> I haven't had a chance to take the car apart yet or look at a Helms, but the problem only exists in a small % of sedans. The case file took 6 months of waiting and the tech at my dealer claim it was the first one being done in Canada, but meh, whatever, the noise is still there. I've sat in the coupe with factory systems and they sounded fine. My car was pretty bad because I had backseat passengers complain about the hissing.


This is the kind of issue I have had in cars with OE HUs and Zapco Symbilink where the signal ground had not been grounded...


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## MidnightG35X (Feb 5, 2009)

VP Electricity said:


> So Robert here confuses a balanced signal and a speaker signal.
> 
> The BTL doesn't work well with preamp-level balanced signals, and it works VERY well with higher-voltage speaker-level signals.


That is why I did not include the resistor and capacitor network in my system. I just wired it in directly. I guess my point is if you have preamp-level, balanced outputs from your HU or some source, you can wire it directly into the zapco amps. At least it is this way with my AG360. I do not have a DC like was mentioned earlier, so I cannot comment.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Yes, but the induced noise can be a simple matter of how the loom was bundled, for example if the audio was bundled right next to the noise maker then you will have hiss, if it was bundled on the other side of a 1" loom there may be enough between it or not enough current on the noise maker to get it that far... you dig? That's why I was asking you about the "harnesses" or looming.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

MidnightG35X said:


> That is why I did not include the resistor and capacitor network in my system. I just wired it in directly. I guess my point is if you have preamp-level, balanced outputs from your HU or some source, you can wire it directly into the zapco amps. At least it is this way with my AG360. I do not have a DC like was mentioned earlier, so I cannot comment.


Oh, OK... AFAIK all the Symbilink "front ends" are the same.


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

I started pulling fuses for anything connected to ignition. I pulled the abs fuse first and the stopped because I realized was Honda's problem to figure it out. I wasn't expecting it to be fully fixed since each car may be different and they need to do a generic fix for all.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

why were you pulling fuses?


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## Fiercetimbo17 (May 17, 2007)

Megalomaniac from this site made me mine, very clean good work


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Yep. I was going to get him to make me some but am holding off as we're both busy.

He made yours with cat5, I believe. I was going to have him make mine with firewire per Chad's suggestion.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Yep. I was going to get him to make me some but am holding off as we're both busy.

He made yours with cat5, I believe. I was going to have him make mine with firewire per Chad's suggestion.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> why were you pulling fuses?


Forget that, why were you thinking Honda would care? I really doubt they will do squat for ya, man...


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## Fiercetimbo17 (May 17, 2007)

Yea i think it was cat5, they seem to work fine however.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Fiercetimbo17 said:


> Yea i think it was cat5, they seem to work fine however.


I found it really should be using a firewire cable(separate shielding per pairs of wires inside). I can redo yours if you want or if you ever have a problem just let me know.


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## Fiercetimbo17 (May 17, 2007)

Hmm i might have to take you up on that if it makes a big difference, just going to suck rerunning them.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

simplyclean said:


> I started pulling fuses for anything connected to ignition. I pulled the abs fuse first and the stopped because I realized was Honda's problem to figure it out. I wasn't expecting it to be fully fixed since each car may be different and they need to do a generic fix for all.


Depends on what the fix is. You say when the IGN is on, Just the IGN? No lights? Does it have DRL? Fuel pumps are also VERY noisy in these electrically.



bikinpunk said:


> why were you pulling fuses?


Same reason you pulled the fuses on your DRL circuit 



VP Electricity said:


> Forget that, why were you thinking Honda would care? I really doubt they will do squat for ya, man...


Some do, some don't but you have to understand, the owner LIVES with the car whereas the servicing agent has it for a short period. Any amount of intelligent logical troubleshooting helps the problem. if the tech does not listen to your diagnosis, talk to the service manager or Honda themselves.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

chad said:


> Some do, some don't but you have to understand, the owner LIVES with the car whereas the servicing agent has it for a short period. Any amount of intelligent logical troubleshooting helps the problem. if the tech does not listen to your diagnosis, talk to the service manager or Honda themselves.


Why do you think I don't understand? I'm pretty sure I DO understand. I just have some experience-based expectations of the dealer service environment. 



chad said:


> Any amount of intelligent logical troubleshooting helps the problem.


Good thing it's any amount, because from the service environment, I expect "infinitesimal". I hope you totally make me wrong... but that's what I fear.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

If you expect infinitesimal troubleshooting out of the average customer bringing a car in for warranty work, or anything in for warranty work then, well.....


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

Well, what?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

well, you just may be wrong, because 90% of the repairs I do get slammed down with a "it's broke, fix it." and in an industry where most people know the gear that broke intimately and how it works that 10% is a pretty liberal number.

Unless, of course, we are on completely different pages and we actually agree.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

dupe


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

chad said:


> Depends on what the fix is. You say when the IGN is on, Just the IGN? No lights? Does it have DRL? Fuel pumps are also VERY noisy in these electrically.
> 
> Some do, some don't but you have to understand, the owner LIVES with the car whereas the servicing agent has it for a short period. Any amount of intelligent logical troubleshooting helps the problem. if the tech does not listen to your diagnosis, talk to the service manager or Honda themselves.


When I turn the car accessory and turn on the stereo, there's was a slight, slight buzzing noise that sounded like a blower motor with a hiss and a tick. when the volume knob was at 0. When I turn the key to ignition or if the car is running, it's a lot louder and really annoying. It was audible when the volume knob was at zero or low at 3,4. At moderate volume it was almost drown out. I can't quantify moderate volume, but you wouldn't be able to talk on a cell phone or a person sitting next to you. I told them there were people who had a similar problem on the civic forums with 4dr Si sedans. (in the sedans, the amps is under the seat, in the coupes they are in the center console.) I told them I thought it had to be some electrical component inducing noise into the stereo, maybe through wiring or a bad ground. I wasn't expecting a quick fix. There is was no service bulletin for it. I was expecting to have to bring the car back a few times with a case file from honda.

Three techs heard the same story. The first idiot I dealt with told me, they had to call Honda with the car here and compare it with another car the exactly model on the lot. He wasted my time and dropped the ball so I had to repeat my story again. The second tech heard the same story. He was a lot better a clue. Unfortunately the car sat there for 2 days and all they did was swap the radio that didn't do anything. Fortunately, the head tech finally got involved. A case file was started with Honda Canada and they contacted the US, since mine was the first one with the problem here.

6 months later, they replaced a harness that got rid of some of the noise with new ground points, but the noise is still there, but I'm fine with it in the stock system. My main concern was when I got rid of the car, if the defect would be a problem selling it. I realize the dealer has to follow Honda's procedures and protocols. Ideally, the only way to fix the problem is to troubleshoot a problem like this and treat each car differently, but they have to issue a universal fix. 

I understand people at the dealer sometimes have to deal with Honda warranty and corporate ******** procedures. I realize that sometimes they're at the mercy of others.

But the head tech was cool and he and I were on the same page. I knew that he knew the only realistic way was to take the car apart and trouble shoot, but he had to follow procedures. He listen to what I had to say. Before I came for the harness swap (I don't know exactly what they swapped, but it only took them a hour or so), I told him that I was going to add new amps to it and agree with me that if it got the signal right after the headunit, I'd be fine. When I picked the car out, I had him come back out to listen to it, but I wasn't pissed, I just wasn't sure if it was still there or it's "normal". He had to write a report back and did note the noise was still there and that the customer is just going to leave it as is and install new amps and wiring at the radio bypassing the factory harness.

It's working good enough for now. I just didn't want to get blamed for this defect if i decide to turn the car back at the end of the lease.


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

MidnightG35X said:


> link to the files


Thanks. I only had 2 of the 4.



VP Electricity said:


> This is the kind of issue I have had in cars with OE HUs and Zapco Symbilink where the signal ground had not been grounded...


I thought about taking the car apart to troubleshoot, but then I thought troubleshooting a factory system for noise would be stupid and upgrading it would be a better fix. 



Fiercetimbo17 said:


> Yea i think it was cat5, they seem to work fine however.





Megalomaniac said:


> I found it really should be using a firewire cable(separate shielding per pairs of wires inside). I can redo yours if you want or if you ever have a problem just let me know.


So just any IEEE1394 will do? How would you know if you have a problem? What about the number of twists per inch or foot?

I'm leaning towards just buying a pair of cables right now and cutting the ends, I don't want to take the risk of loosing anything or degrading the signal, unless I can be guarantee there is no difference.


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## honda (Oct 7, 2007)

is there a particular IEEE1394 cable that is necessary looking on new egg and see different number of pins

have 07 civic i going to try front left and right balanced outs to dc650.6 and i going to send rear balanced outs to dc1100.1

each would require frt and rear will require 6 wires correct? 3 for left 3 for right

would i want to use a ps2 connector or cut rca to symbilink cables


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)




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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Mir rocks......

that's the ticket.


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## honda (Oct 7, 2007)

so do shields both ground to ring for each channel or am i just wrong

and vop is +/- 15 volts that needs to be disconnected


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

honda said:


> have 07 civic i going to try front left and right balanced outs to dc650.6 and i going to send rear balanced outs to dc1100.1


I have not tested the balanced outs of the 07 Civic... but the balanced outs of the 07 Element HU in the amped system are WILDLY EQ'd. So are the speaker outs of the 07 Fit. 

So I recommend you test the output with an RTA (with the mike replaced with a test probe set) to properly tune the DC amps. I connect the RTA to the DC amp outputs and tune with pink noise playing, and when I get it flat, I save in preset one, and then tune for speakers over that one but save it in 2-6...

The Zapco DIN-RCA adapters common the L and R shields of the two RCA connectors, so you can't use them with OE signals. Found that one out the hard way...


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

honda said:


> so do shields both ground to ring for each channel or am i just wrong


yes, ground to ring, all of them


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

honda said:


> so do shields both ground to ring for each channel or am i just wrong


I would ground the outer shield to the HU chassis and the channel shields to each channel shield in the car. But with these OE interfaces, I always leave that open and undone and test it like mad the first time. Sometimes I have floated the outer shield and tied the channel shields together and grounded them... it is very empirical and vehicle-dependent.


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## simplyclean (Jan 23, 2009)

honda said:


> is there a particular IEEE1394 cable that is necessary looking on new egg and see different number of pins


I gave up and bought Zapco cables. 



VP Electricity said:


> I have not tested the balanced outs of the 07 Civic...
> 
> So I recommend you test the output with an RTA (with the mike replaced with a test probe set) to properly tune the DC amps. I connect the RTA to the DC amp outputs and tune with pink noise playing, and when I get it flat, I save in preset one, and then tune for speakers over that one but save it in 2-6...


Crap. 

I read somewhere that the balanced line system in the current civics aren't exactly the same as the 04-08 TSX, which sort of makes sense based on rear speaker layout alone (6x9s vs. 6.5s + sub) and maybe the year the audio systems became available. On the Element head, do you remember if the subwoofer control comes up right away when you push the right button with adjustments from +6 to off and the loosing the sub when you fade to the front because the sub is fed off the rears?

Good tip on setting up the DCs.


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

chad said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, why would you use an inappropriate cable for an interface on an amplifier you paid an ass-load of money for?
> 
> Buy some firewire cables of the right length or more from newegg and lop the ends off.



Out of the grave with this one. 


Chad, 
It won't hurt the amps to use the PS/2 cables, will it? 

I plan on building the correct type cables or buying Symbilink cables but I have 3 DC amps I would like to get hooked up tomorrow to see how I like them. I don't want to spend the time or money building or tracking down cables if I don't like how the amps work.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

u can use ps/2 cables, has less shielding so in some cars noise may be an issue, though unlikely, but biggest demerit is that the ps/2 connectors dont fit very tightly against the opening on the amp, so you gotta figure out a way to put pressure on it or you may get the end sliding out all the time.

b


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## mediumroast (Apr 18, 2011)

Salami said:


> Out of the grave with this one.
> 
> 
> Chad,
> ...


Salami,
PS/2 cables work (not very well) but you can at least audition the amps and get a feel for their 'tone' which I think should be fairly neutral sounding. I've tried computer PS/2 cables and also the purple belkin gold plated AV PS/2 cables and they both suck. Sure they are cheap and work but have a more flabby smeary sound (such a waste to use with your high-end gear.) It may not be a fair test because they limit the sound so much - kinda like using cheap RCA patch cords from the Dollar store.

Firewire cable works better but still very poor sound compared to true Zapco cables which are a little pricey but very high quality in sound and build quality. To me the Zapco cables have a fairly clean and neutral sound which is better than most plain RCA cables of the same price.

I make my own cables with 26 or 28GA single strand solid core wires that keeps a LOT of detail in the signal but loses out in the low-end fullness. The connectors I like to use are from the Ebay seller chanler.young: 10 New 6 Pin Mini Din Plug Adapter Connector 24K USA | eBay
It's still a low quality connector that's prone to slip off but at least much better than the standard plastic connectors that don't even fit until you cut a little bit of the plastic off the slide-on outer shell before it can fit into Zapco DSP's and Amps: 5pcs Mini DIN Connector Male Plug 6 pin #1102-6 | eBay

Hope that helps


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> u can use ps/2 cables, has less shielding so in some cars noise may be an issue, though unlikely, but biggest demerit is that the ps/2 connectors dont fit very tightly against the opening on the amp, so you gotta figure out a way to put pressure on it or you may get the end sliding out all the time.
> 
> b


Thanks Bing. The cables I currently have seem to secure into the amps pretty well. I have to pull on them pretty good to get them to release. Don't have any real Zapco's to come to though. Cables will be temporary until I figure out exactly what I need. 


You seem to have used the DC's a lot. What are your thoughts on making cables versus the Zapco cables? If you have done custom cables any leads on where to get some better fitting ends? 

I would rather build custom if I can get some quality parts. My install would be much simpler and cleaner and likely cheaper with custom cables.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Sube'd for images. I will be doing something special with some modified C2k's


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