# Line array vs Standard tower designs



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Im looking to build my first set of home speakers and im really trying to decide between going all out and doing a full Line Array or just sticking with a tower design (perhaps MTM plus WW).
I really like the idea behind the Line Array, but Ive never gotten a chance to hear such a system. For those with experience, is it worth the extra cost to do a line array as opposed to a tower point source system? Is sonically far superior?

Thanks for any advice offered.

If I go the LA route, Im thinking of using either the Dayton ND90, Tang Band W3 bamboo, or similar drivers.

If I go the tower route, I'll probably give the TB 1337SD drivers a try, or go with bamboo's or Dayton RS.

It will cost probably twice as much in driver cost to do they array, so its a big decision.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

I have been mulling over this same decision myself, although my timeline is a little bit further down the road. 

One of the benefits to doing a line-driver system is that you have the option (maybe, depending on which driver you use) to use the same driver at all positions in the surround system, and just using differing quantities for output. I would think this would bring the cost down a little, and also make the sound a little bit more cohesive.


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## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

line arrays look cooler.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

stills said:


> line arrays look cooler.





Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


>



They sure do... :laugh:


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

stills said:


> line arrays look cooler.


Debateable! Ive seen some pretty slick cabinet designs for systems that just look amazing. A huge line array would look pretty wild too, although less "artistic" in nature. Certainly more intimidating though. If you walked in and saw two arrays of 24 3" woofers per side, you'd probably think your ears were in for a good bleeding :surprised:

Plus then the chicks will see it and think, whats this guy over-compensating for?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Did you see the BG planars (up to around 72" tall) on PartsExpress? Just plain awesome.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

captainobvious said:


> Plus then the chicks will see it and think, whats this guy over-compensating for?


If some chicks are like my wife, they'd get excited. I showed pictures of arrays to my wife and she approved. She just likes to crank it and dance haha.:thumbsup: Only thing is I'm not sure if array is such a good idea in a townhouse (poor neighbours).

Anyway, back to original discussion. Cap, you're comparing the price difference, but it's just not fair. Even if you pay 2x, it's not like you're not getting any benefits. Even by efficiency the array will kill average "tower", unless you do horns etc (but your tower will use conventional drivers as you mention).

I haven't played with full size arrays, I only constructed a quick one from PE 2" buyout turds and was very pleasantly surprised by output capabilities at least and I didn't give them much at all (aka 25w receiver). Can't say about quality difference, as I couldn't do a direct a/b with normal speaker.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Im looking to build my first set of home speakers and im really trying to decide between going all out and doing a full Line Array or just sticking with a tower design (perhaps MTM plus WW).
> I really like the idea behind the Line Array, but Ive never gotten a chance to hear such a system. For those with experience, is it worth the extra cost to do a line array as opposed to a tower point source system? Is sonically far superior?
> 
> Thanks for any advice offered.
> ...





Let me suggest this:

Do the line array if you are doing a large room with lots of listening positions. They don't lose SPL at the same rate of distance as a point-source. If the room is "traditional" and normal size, then point-source all the way.

I purchased from Discount Stereo Speakers - Home Audio Speakers - Surround Sound Speaker Systems, and could not possibly be happier with the cost to performance ratio.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> Let me suggest this:
> 
> Do the line array if you are doing a large room with lots of listening positions. They don't lose SPL at the same rate of distance as a point-source. If the room is "traditional" and normal size, then point-source all the way.


That is one of the reasons I am looking line array, as I have listening positions all over the place, and the room is a weird shape with the tv almost in the center. Off-axis performance right now is a nightmare, and it would be nicer to have something that is naturally better at dispersion. Not to thread jack, just saying that that is an important thing to consider.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

fourthmeal said:


> Did you see the BG planars (up to around 72" tall) on PartsExpress? Just plain awesome.


You mean the ones that are $750 a pop   


Too rich for my blood.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

94VG30DE said:


> That is one of the reasons I am looking line array, as I have listening positions all over the place, and the room is a weird shape with the tv almost in the center. Off-axis performance right now is a nightmare, and it would be nicer to have something that is naturally better at dispersion. Not to thread jack, just saying that that is an important thing to consider.


Well I really only have one listening position which would be between the arrays (a nice long 3-4 person couch). Everywhere else would fall outside of that range on either side. One of the nice things about the Dayton ND90's is that they have low distortion, and excellent xmax for a 3" driver. That, and going by Parts-Express, when you buy 50 drivers, you get a substantial discount. One driver is $19.70, but when ordering 50+, the price drops to $12.90 each. So buying 50 would actually cost me less than buying 40. 

I would need a 6.3 foot length minimum to stay in the 70% boundary coupling restriction. So I'd need about 22 woofers per side, 44 total. Then I'd have to add in the tweeter array as well. Perhaps the Dayton ND20FB4 or the ND16FA, both of which are super cheap, and performed well in Zaphs tests. On the plus side, I should be able to get pretty tight spacing with them to use them up to a higher frequency before comb filtering effects.

But totaled up...

50 Dayton ND90's $645.00
72 Dayton ND20FB's $484.56
---------------------------------
$1129.56

And thats not including Subs...and wiring, cabinet materials, amplification, etc etc.


Yikes.


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## Ga foo 88 (Dec 18, 2005)

The Murphy Corner-Line-Array Home Page

This one uses the dayton ns3 clone.

Tony Gee also has a new tl loaded array using the hivi b3s's.... seen below

Humble Homemade Hifi


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I brought it up before, but consider those TSC speakers I talked about. Best bang for the buck I've ever bought. Plus they ship free and return ship free if you don't like them.


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## Dryseals (Sep 7, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> Im looking to build my first set of home speakers and im really trying to decide between going all out and doing a full Line Array or just sticking with a tower design (perhaps MTM plus WW).
> I really like the idea behind the Line Array, but Ive never gotten a chance to hear such a system. For those with experience, is it worth the extra cost to do a line array as opposed to a tower point source system? Is sonically far superior?
> 
> Thanks for any advice offered.
> ...


I'm still wanting to do a line array, I purchased a large amount of the HiVi B4N's on ebay a while back, bulk sale, dirt cheap. The cost of doing the project went through the roof. I was looking at cutting all those holes and decided I needed an easier way to do this. So I got lost into the DIY CNC router world. Built a base for the unit, you can't go small, has to fit a full sized sheet of wood. Fortunately, Hurricane Ike knocked the wind out of my sails so for now the progect costs are on hold, but not for much longer.......the house is almost finished........


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

fourthmeal said:


> I brought it up before, but consider those TSC speakers I talked about. Best bang for the buck I've ever bought. Plus they ship free and return ship free if you don't like them.


They look like a decent deal. I definitely want to build my own though a s that will be part of the fun/challenge. 

Im still undecided on the tower vs array thing. The solution- BUILD BOTH! 
Ive got some drivers to work on a tower project so I think I may start out with that, and then snag my LA drivers and parts when the tax refund comes along...

The first set will be an MTM plus woofer design. I have some Tang Band bamboo W4's sitting here collecting dust, and I just bought a pair of Vifa XT25 to cover the tweeter duties. I also have a Tang W4-1337 (titanium) driver that everyone raves about so I can compare it to the bamboo. Whichever mates with the XT25 better and sounds best, will make it into the system.


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## hobie1dog (Apr 9, 2008)

These are some 8 ft models I built a couple of years ago.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

hobie1dog said:


> These are some 8 ft models I built a couple of years ago.



They look very nice. I like the piano black finish. Are the drivers the MCM's ?
What can you say about the sound of that setup as compared with others?

Thanks.


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## hobie1dog (Apr 9, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> They look very nice. I like the piano black finish. Are the drivers the MCM's ?
> What can you say about the sound of that setup as compared with others?
> 
> Thanks.


The drivers are from Axon which you can get through Zalytron and in kit form with matching tweeters. The Array-1 kit which I built originally had all 12 midbass/midrange drivers playing at the same level. Elliot at Zalytron decided to play engineer and re-wire it so that the drivers tapered off in output from the 2 center drivers....so you ended up with the top and bottom drivers producing almost no output.

I heard the original design which was fantastic...so I ordered the kit and built the big-ass cabinets, and when I fired them up I knew it was a complete cluster-f#@k. So don't order that kit from Zalytron. I even called the original engineer who designer the first edition and told him what Elliot did, and he said he knew it was a screwed up design.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

^ Bummer!
At least after reading Jim Griffin's white papery on Line Arrays I feel I have a good set of guidleines to follow when I buid them.


My goal now is an MTM design using: 
*W4-1320SJ *Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W4-1320SJ 4" Bamboo Cone Driver | Tang Band W4-1320SJ bamboo full range driver 4" woofer extended range driver tb speakers line array

*Vifa XT25* Parts-Express.com:Vifa XT25TG30-04 1" Dual Radiator Tweeter | Vifa XT25TG30-04 1" tweeter Dual Concentric Dome Tweeter sonus faber 4 Ohm tweeter vifa vline waveguide ring radiator hf high frequency mtm tymphany09

and filing in the low end, 2 per side:
*Usher 8955A* Parts-Express.com:Usher 8955A 8" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer | 8955a 8" woofer 8 inch woofer midbass midwoofer carbon fiber woofer

This should be pretty kick ass


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