# 2016 Venza build log - It has been a while but I am back at it!



## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Hey all, I thought i would share my ideas, build and journey out there with the masses . I am no professional and I like to try different approaches and ideas. Learning as I go.

My goal is to get as close to the 2 channel home audio experience in my car as I can. My previous Yaris build was a great learning experience and I am going to build on top of that.

I do not have the system fully planned out and I am faking it till I make it. This is a SQ build not a boom boom or sql build.

I am going to use all my previous equipment.

tweets - Brax ML1
Mids - Brax GL6
Midbass - Brax ML 8
Rear fill - Brax GL3
Sub = ?

Proc. - Helix Ultra

Amps - (2) helix C-fours
(1) helix C-one.

Source - Fiio m11 pro - coax out
and maybe deck integration.

All positive , sharing of ideas, and inquiry focused conversation welcome and negative stuff keep to yourself please.

Let the journey begin with a .........

Vehicle selfie


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Welcome back! Looking forward to your new project! Please keep us posted.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay were to start. i could not decide so I thought why not cut a hole in a a-pillar then I have to start. I then formed up a mock baffle to play with arrangement and mechanical fit testing (MFT). The pillars in the Venza inspire lots of opportunistic thoughts. This will be my first first integrated pillar build, so both exciting and nerve wrecking!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

But... I knew this was not the dream plan i had for the car when I bought so I threw away that idea and decided to upsize 

I made another mock baffle built up a basic structure and sealed it with high-end acoustic duct tape, lol, Again MFT and proof of concept.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Outside looking in. I drove around with this arrangement for a day or two to see how it would impact the practical vehicle usage. And the impact was hardly noticeable due to the Venza dash profile and pillar design.


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

I have a vertical allignment just like that. I believe that is the best way to go for imaging.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I am thinking this is really going to work, so I thought i would shoot it with the RTA to see what I am dealing with in reality. the mock enclosure is vented into the dash through the tweeter panel which was removed. I put a decent amount of poly and wool into the enclosure to help control the back wave not knowing what to expect. Below is the RTA capture. I think I put a bit of a low shelf filter at 150hz down to lift it a bit. Tweet and mid crossed at 2.2Khz. I listened to mono music for a while and then decided to see if I can make this happen. By all accounts the results are promising. I expect the cabin gain to be much less above the dash however I have certain goals in mind.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I mocked up a DSP and amp test jig powered by a computer power supply to run my tests against the initial setups. I have no amps or anything installed in the car yet.


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

Keep going girl. I was able to get a listen to this mock up. It’s going to be a crazy sounding build when done.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

This is probably going to be one of the (if not the) best sounding builds on DIYMA...


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

JimmyDee said:


> This is probably going to be one of the (if not the) best sounding builds on DIYMA...


Nothing like pressure now.


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## LimpCroissaint (May 18, 2021)

AudioGal said:


> But... I knew this was not the dream plan i had for the car when I bought so I threw away that idea and decided to upsize
> 
> I made another mock baffle built up a basic structure and sealed it with high-end acoustic duct tape, lol, Again MFT and proof of concept.
> 
> ...


OOO😮the audiophile tape! Nice haha. I like the bookshelfesque design on the pods, I've been thinking about doing something similar.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

toneloc2 said:


> Nothing like pressure now.


ya dang it to much pressure for little ol me!!! I am just trying to build what is in my head thats all!!! But thanks for the support guys it should be a fun ride !


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

So I started on my baffle design and i have it to the basic shape I like and I started with mounting into the pillars and getting my alignment to where I am happy with it.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

back seat view. With 6.5 on axis in the dash and almost no impact to driver visibility , which I am pretty happy about.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

What? You can't fit 8s?  Looking great AudioGal. Looking forward to seeing what you do with this canvas. That looks really good from an acoustical stand point, well at least as nice as possible given the amount of glass around the cabin.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

dgage said:


> What? You can't fit 8s?  Looking great AudioGal. Looking forward to seeing what you do with this canvas. That looks really good from an acoustical stand point, well at least as nice as possible given the amount of glass around the cabin.



haha ya wouldn't that be something. I have something close in mind though !


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay the build has started. Pillars are out and I am starting to cut materials.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Pillars are roughed in using baltic birch strips. My garage does not have enough light so I brought them inside to take a pic or two. I rebuilt each pillar twice to get the shape that i was going for. Lots of work still to do to get them into shape but I am liking the progress so far.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

View from outside the car


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Inside the car


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)




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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

View from the drivers seat


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

My first ever purchase from an autobody supply store. The guys did not know what to make of me and my project so it was fun messing with them 🤪


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

May I ask what happened with the Yaris ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Coppertone said:


> May I ask what happened with the Yaris ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


ya for sure, it has been given to my daughter as her first car. almost all the previous install was removed and more basic stuff put back in. She still goes on drives to listen to music in her car which is cool.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I started the shaping and cleanup stage of the pods

View attachment 310807


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

A good application of kitty hair mixed with resin on the inside to add strength, build up the wood, fill voids ,,,etc.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

and the outside for the same reason, mostly to build up the shape and catch low and gapped spots.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

2nd sanding out of the pillars.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Shaping the tweeter section with some hobby supplies (model railroad) plastic strip. Glue, sand and shape easily.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

filling in and supporting the back side of the tweeter section.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Another test fit in the car for clearance, shape , and test bumps on the RTA including listening. the results are turning out very good and I have a solid 100hz above the dash,

Instrument and vocal placement is cohesive, continuous and just there ( cello, double bass, piano, acoustic guitar) in the proper place anywhere on the dash and the depth of the sound field is solid including width of stage. The geometric compression of the sound stage is minimal on the left hand side through the steering wheel area.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

For those that care about such things, I have the RTA curve left, right and both sides with a simple basic (10 minute tune literally) tune in it to get it to the point of understanding what is going on and how the speakers work on each side and individually.

Blue = left
Green = right
red = both


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Doing the mounting structure for the pillar. I have 3 bolts holding the pillar on to the frame of the car using threaded nutserts.

(2) 1/4 -20 machine bolts and (1) 8-32 machine bolt. the machine bolts allow me to suck in the pillar to the a-frame allow me to place foam around all the pillar edges to seal the pillar as much as possible to prevent leakage. It seals really tight and light is not visible around the pillar edges.


Plus as an added bonus the airbag still will function as normal as the top of the pillar can still release to the full extent of the plastic strap that limits how far the pillar comes out.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Mixed up some milkshake to add mass and further strengthen and fill any remaining voids if any.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Final fill and sanding completed. I have done my fist coats of black primer. i am going to leave them in this state until I finish my door pods to the same state. At that point I will decide on final finish.

I have gloss black (opaque) acrylic for a front baffle that I am going to use as a final baffle for the enclosure that the drivers will sit into. I am waiting to do that piece.

I am open to suggestions on how to finish out the pillars, so fire away!!

I am super happy with how they have turned out. Being my very first pillar build and I was not sure 😬


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Again this is just the primer coat not the finished pillar.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

All caught up now almost. This is the stage I am at. I have started the door build but I am at the beginning stages. it may not be obvious but the drivers side door is open hence the light showing through by the tweeter.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Fantastic job! I applaud your willingness to jump right in and tackle a complex pillar build! You make it look easy / like a seasoned pro! And very cool that you are doing some testing throughout the build. Based how the Yaris turned out with the cool things you did in that car, I’m expecting wonderful things in this vehicle. I’d love to hear it some day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

My Dream SQ platform vehicle...


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

This is AWESOME!!!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Fantastic job! I applaud your willingness to jump right in and tackle a complex pillar build! You make it look easy / like a seasoned pro! And very cool that you are doing some testing throughout the build. Based how the Yaris turned out with the cool things you did in that car, I’m expecting wonderful things in this vehicle. I’d love to hear it some day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thank you @bertholomey that is very kind of you and I appreciate the support. Ya I am trying to chase my crazy vison the best I can and i want to make sure that the I's are dotted and the T's are handled.

I would love to do a trip to the US sometime and meet up with some of the SQ folks down there. Maybe next year if things settle out and there is an event/ gathering in reasonable distance to Calgary AB.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Bluenote said:


> My Dream SQ platform vehicle...


haha funny you mention this, i picked the Venza because I liked the car and i knew it had great SQ bones in it, or I am hoping at least!!!


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

how do you all figure the Venza is good for SQ? What makes it good? Why so dreamy? Isn't it exactly the same as all other car interiors?

Like you know... kind of serious question. 

Those pods look awwwesome, btw.



AudioGal said:


> haha funny you mention this, i picked the Venza because I liked the car and i knew it had great SQ bones in it, or I am hoping at least!!!


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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

JohnnyOhh said:


> how do you all figure the Venza is good for SQ? What makes it good? Why so dreamy? Isn't it exactly the same as all other car interiors?
> 
> Like you know... kind of serious question.
> 
> Those pods look awwwesome, btw.


Same. Great build great car but I don’t understand the specific love for the Venza.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JohnnyOhh said:


> how do you all figure the Venza is good for SQ? What makes it good? Why so dreamy? Isn't it exactly the same as all other car interiors?
> 
> Like you know... kind of serious question.
> 
> Those pods look awwwesome, btw.


Thank you , It is a great question and thanks for asking, i cannot speak for others though.

reason 1 . I can or at the time was hoping to be able to place a 6.5" driver above the dash for the purpose of pulling 100hz above the dash. This accomplishes a lot SQ wise as the phase (dip in response) issue between 120 and 250 hz is eliminated. refer to my RTA captures and i am seeing about 90hz above the dash. The RTA graphs I have shown demonstrate this. This is with minimal EQ a couple of bands each side to somewhat flatten a couple of spots. no boosting and no specific driver matching eq. etc. literally a 10 minute tune to determine if I should keep going and press on or start over.

reason 2 - by having 100hz and above the dash the sound staging for depth, width and height is more consistent and solid. For example a cello or double bass stays put, has proper stage height, is is not pulled around the car as the musician plays the instrument.

reason 3 - the instruments and singers are largely handled by two drives and one cross over point meaning less chances of distortion through the most critical freqs. our ears are sensitive to so the continuity of the instruments and singers again is more solid, vivid and realistic.

reason 4 - the acoustic center of the drivers are maintained through all cross over points meaning the drivers will act as a single driver across their pass bands

reason 5 - I am able to maintain vertical alignment and on axis aiming of the drivers which is important to me and the geometry of the time alignment will be maintained as i shift my head back and forth so the sound stage imaging will be solid and stable. aka less chance of comb filtering in the horizontal axis. My initial test bumps with music has been wonderful. I have heard sound stage separation of instruments that i have not heard before and even delineation of instruments in mix so to speak.

reason 6 - because the pillars can play low the integration to the mid-bass is easy and less problematic no weird stuff to compensate for.

Reason 7 - i can put 6.5 in the pillar without impacting driver visibility almost no other cars can manage this. refer to my pictures. The pillar is wide and the dash is curved in all the right spots.

reason 8 - the Venza windshield is deep so the depth allowed in the stage from front of field is really good.

Reason 9 - the Venza has a good width dash so the geometric resolution of the horizontal stage width is really good with many points of degrees between each left and right speaker and center of stage.

That is some of the reasons

The Venza has a unique pillar and dash arrangement and that is why i selected it and say it has good SQ bones at least for me and depending on what your requirments are (what you want) you may disagree totally.

reason 10 - for free lol .. i can mount sealed MB enclosures for my 8' in the door and maintain vertical alignment for sq and staging plus it will extend the response down to 40hz which is my other goal. all without incurring vibrations and door distortions as I proved to myself in my Yaris.


The drawback is a lot of people do not want a 6.5 on the dash because of looks and stealth considerations or they just cannot fit that size of driver no matter what. That is perfectly valid but it is not my design consideration or acoustic goal to limit that part.

So that is my thoughts and as with most things somethings work and something's do not, so far so good 😀


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oh and last but not least it is a great mom car for doing the family stuff to


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

sooo.... deep dash  

you got 6.5" woofer + tweeter in the dash, that super impressive. i really like the wood construction of those pods, grade A.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JohnnyOhh said:


> sooo.... deep dash
> 
> you got 6.5" woofer + tweeter in the dash, that super impressive. i really like the wood construction of those pods, grade A.


haha yes i sure did and thanks you very much for the compliment 😀

curved deep dash and wide pillars !


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm definitely in for this build. Great stuff so far!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

ejeffrey said:


> I'm definitely in for this build. Great stuff so far!


Thanks
I will have more pic's to show by the end of the weekend hopefully, of the midbass installation.


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

Great start! I suppose equipment choice is your reason for going with 6.5" mids instead of 5.25" ones?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

dBassHz said:


> Great start! I suppose equipment choice is your reason for going with 6.5" mids instead of 5.25" ones?


Thanks😁

Yes sort of. I figured i had the room (dimensions) for the 6.5 and i wanted to get 90-100Hz above the dash with out strain so…… i went for it! Also there was not a 5.25 driver that interested me.

A 5.25 would have made the install much easier though that’s for sure, lol!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

To add …. i would have always wondered about the 6.5 if i went to a smaller driver …. that sort of nagging thing that sits and bugs ya, type of thing 😂


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

That 6,5" looks impressive on the pillar. I never did biger than 5" and even that was BIG, even my latest pillars for 4" arent on small side,.....Im surprised that view in the road is not blocked as much as I thought it would be.
What is the plan for midbass? enclosure build or IB?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> That 6,5" looks impressive on the pillar. I never did biger than 5" and even that was BIG, even my latest pillars for 4" arent on small side,.....Im surprised that view in the road is not blocked as much as I thought it would be.
> What is the plan for midbass? enclosure build or IB?


lol, ya it fits in their beautifully. Basically, almost no loss of visibility and way less then every other pillar build i have had the pleasure of seeing in person. The sheer ease, openness and palatability of the music presentation in the testing sessions has been wonderful! The dynamics come for free 

I am planning a full sealed enclosure on the doors again. I am not quite into cutting the metal aspects of the car yet, floors or what not. Audiotec Fisher spec the ML8 for sealed only so that is what i am going to do. I really liked the ML8 in my previous build so hopefully is works well in this system to. I measured my mocked up enclosure frame last night and it landed at about 17L empty and the ML8 is spec'd for 15l so am going to be right in the sweet spot. I should have some pic's to share by the end of the weekend.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Those Brax 8" midbass is a beast. This will be one hell of a system when finished! Good luck with the project!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> Those Brax 8" midbass is a beast. This will be one hell of a system when finished! Good luck with the project!


They sure are. Very musical and they can really do dynamics and extension well. Far beyond a 6.5 in every way for the lower part of the MB passband.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay, i have put a good dent in the midbass build.

Starting to figure out what i can and cannot do, and i made a template i can index to existing holes that are on the panel and in the door.

This is a spare door card that i will have to paint to match my black interior . I will do the painting of the pillars, door enclosures and door at the same time when i have them all completed buildwise


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Wood has been cut and the angles shaped for all corners including a kerf’d piece for the round bottom portion. I am
going to put the braces in parrallel to the top wall of the enclosure not how they are pictured here as a fyi.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Let’s make the hole section to gain added columns in the enclosure


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Now some fun time playing with some sand. I want to determine my actual enclosure columns and see how close i came to my back of the napkin calculations 🤓

16.6 litres and i should be able to add about 1/2 litre with the top piece. So right we’re i was hoping i would land and sand does not lie, lol!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Now it is time to
plan the midbass speaker install into the enclosure 

After lots of measuring and test fitting here is where i landed.

I changed the shape of the opening once i did the test fit in the car.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Prep the parts for the top build


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Sorry my work light caused the phots to be orange ish. The top is taking shape


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Preping for a good dose of Kitty hair and resin and then a coat of milkshake on the inside pieces.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Time tro start gluing stuff together!!

I also did some ceanup of the corners and shaping.

I am super happy with my very first kerf pieces 😀


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

and it is time to do the cut and fitting into the door panels. The final integration should clean up
nicely and shape well into the panel with the help from some filler and shaping. 


This is about we’re i ended up
over the weekend.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

My initial cardboard mock-up to check for placement, alignment to the top stage and of course leg room which there is still 90-95% of the tag room
left which i am happy about.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Ma’am, I think you’re a little bit crazy but I’m going along for this ride anyway. lol


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

UNBROKEN said:


> Ma’am, I think you’re a little bit crazy but I’m going along for this ride anyway. lol


lol ya perhaps a little bit , and you are not the first one to mention that point , lol. Crazy is were the fun is 🤪


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Looking through the pics of the midbass build, then I get to the one showing how it will be angled upwards... 










Excellent work on all of it, really cool.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

So I see that you have the panel holes templated but how are you going to actually attach the enclosure to your door? I’m looking forward to what you come up with. Looking amazing so far.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Nice woodwork.


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## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

AudioGal said:


> Pillars are roughed in using baltic birch strips. My garage does not have enough light so I brought them inside to take a pic or two. I rebuilt each pillar twice to get the shape that i was going for. Lots of work still to do to get them into shape but I am liking the progress so far.
> 
> View attachment 310783
> View attachment 310784
> ...


The PS sounds jigsaw technique? Or did he get it from somewhere?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

DoubleCrown said:


> The PS sounds jigsaw technique? Or did he get it from somewhere?


Hehe, I made a box from jigsaw pieces of wood and fibrefill in the early 90’s. It’s nothing new, it’s just that he puts lots of stuff on you tube for all to see, it’s the same as his underseat midbass vids that have been in BMWs since the early 00’s and I’ve had for two yrs or so 😂

There are no new ideas pretty much… but new applications to use stuff in 👍🏼 I love seeing creative ways to fit stuff in cars 🥰


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Looking decent on the new build, I’d definitely get the midbass out of the doors!

Your passenger side mid will likely be ok due to the length of the car pushing it’s first big dip lower with it being an estate car, in my corsa which is a touch bigger than the Yaris it is at 110hz ish

I like the pillars, and yes they look big… but in reality they are the same sort of shape as mine so from the drivers seat they only block the stupid side window that’s pointless…

I can recommend going for a smaller driver to get a more articulate upper midrange, I have the satori mw13p-4 and also a set of mr13p-4 in mine currently in a layout in the picture which is a test, I gave approx 5 liters sealed in the enclosure which is a very low Q but allows me to have my ‘reflection free’ dash top

pushing the drivers up the a pillar gets a wider stage and arranging the drivers as I have them further stabilises the ta as the centres are even closer together which as you pointed out makes small movements of the head even less noticeable than when drivers are in a vertical array

I like the way you think, you’re like a female me 😂


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

naiku said:


> Looking through the pics of the midbass build, then I get to the one showing how it will be angled upwards...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you and i thought i would give it a go and see what happens!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

dgage said:


> So I see that you have the panel holes templated but how are you going to actually attach the enclosure to your door? I’m looking forward to what you come up with. Looking amazing so far.


yes the panel holes where used to index the box position to the panel and door. I have put three seperate holes in the door and used nutserts(rivnuts) to anchor the box to the door. It is super solid just like the yaris was


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

DoubleCrown said:


> The PS sounds jigsaw technique? Or did he get it from somewhere?


oh i have used this technique in my first buld ( yaris) for the pods a few years a go and for other projects non car audio. It has been around a while and i never called it jigsaw just block and shaping


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

dumdum said:


> Looking decent on the new build, I’d definitely get the midbass out of the doors!
> 
> Your passenger side mid will likely be ok due to the length of the car pushing it’s first big dip lower with it being an estate car, in my corsa which is a touch bigger than the Yaris it is at 110hz ish
> 
> ...


Hey dumdum good to hear from you. I thought you had your front dash built by now 🤣 , is this stuff ever really done!!

With the top stage playing down to 90hz i do not have to worry much about that midbass issue above 100hz, One of the reasons i did what i did. The rta and listening tests have been super positive. solid down to 90hz.

Vertical alignment is a key design criteria at least for me and what i want and the benefits are plentiful.

The very best speakers in the world use on axis 6-7" midranges and they do very well. My initial listening tests have been super positive with all aspects of SQ with the current arrangement. I cannot wait to get the midbass ( really 8" front sub stage) as they are playing 90-95 down to 40Hz or so, up and running with the front stage.

we need to get our cars together some how and talk trash and shop, that would be fun!!!


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Hey dumdum good to hear from you. I thought you had your front dash built by now 🤣 , is this stuff ever really done!!
> 
> With the top stage playing down to 90hz i do not have to worry much about that midbass issue above 100hz, One of the reasons i did what i did. The rta and listening tests have been super positive. solid down to 90hz.
> 
> ...


I will likely be coming to see blockrocker at some point, he’s in Alberta I think… not sure about the car coming with me… carry on is perhaps a little ott for a car 😂


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

dumdum said:


> I will likely be coming to see blockrocker at some point, he’s in Alberta I think… not sure about the car coming with me… carry on is perhaps a little ott for a car 😂





dumdum said:


> I will likely be coming to see blockrocker at some point, he’s in Alberta I think… not sure about the car coming with me… carry on is perhaps a little ott for a car 😂


nice, he is like a 1 minute drive from my house, If you firm things up we could arrange meet if/when you come over.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Test fit on the door worked out pretty good. Minimal gaps and the door card(panel) sits nicely on the door no binding or anything. This is the part i dislike the most cutting and fitting the door card. Went smoother than the yaris by far . Now on to the second side in the next day. or so.

The door card will need to be painted and finished up to match the car and the hole in the box will be filled with a cylinder to provide more enclosure volume. The cylinders are already made. Once the door cards are cut i can finish final assembly of the enclosures and then finish the fitment and shaping to the door cards. Almost there and then on to the amp rack and the electrical install!


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Im not a fan of jig saw puzzles,... it is hard to pull some nice design when finishing them, especially with A-pillars.

Totally agree on vertical driver placement... better focuses, better imaging/staging. When I fabed my pillars, going with vertical arrangement was not an option due to tweeter size.
Tweeter should not be furthe raway from mid than 1/4 of wave lenght of x-over point between themid/tweeter combo


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## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

Ive never been lucky enough to meet an audio gal.


LBaudio said:


> Im not a fan of jig saw puzzles,... it is hard to pull some nice design when finishing them, especially with A-pillars.
> 
> Totally agree on vertical driver placement... better focuses, better imaging/staging. When I fabed my pillars, going with vertical arrangement was not an option due to tweeter size.
> Tweeter should not be furthe raway from mid than 1/4 of wave lenght of x-over point between themid/tweeter combo


You do have a fluid, contoured-design style though which I fully appreciate. But for uniformity/symmetry and maximising internal volume it pretty impressive.


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## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

Are you doing anything 'special' with door treatment?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> Im not a fan of jig saw puzzles,... it is hard to pull some nice design when finishing them, especially with A-pillars.
> 
> Totally agree on vertical driver placement... better focuses, better imaging/staging. When I fabed my pillars, going with vertical arrangement was not an option due to tweeter size.
> Tweeter should not be furthe raway from mid than 1/4 of wave lenght of x-over point between themid/tweeter combo


Ya I would say it may be harder but not impossible it depends on the design I suppose. 

With vertical alignment the geometry (ratio) of the TA for all the speakers stays the same in the horizontal axis which is very beneficial.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

DoubleCrown said:


> Are you doing anything 'special' with door treatment?


Yes i will still treat the doors. Finding acoustic car treatments in Canada at a reasonable cost is not easy these days. The price is horrendous to say the least. I will probably piece meal it by dampening the outer and inner door skins a bit at a time. Since the speaker is not exciting the door or transmitting back wave into the door it definitely helps a lot and is not immediately necessary.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay, i held my breath and i cut the drivers side door panel last night to fit the enclosure. The most stressful part of the build is done, thank goodness !! 

Now on to the easy parts 😎


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## Irishklover (Nov 8, 2020)

Damm … this is looking great . I went simple with my venza . (And cheap)


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Irishklover said:


> Damm … this is looking great . I went simple with my venza . (And cheap)


Nice, ya i tend to go off the deep end sometimes, no doubt about that. However in all fairness the costs have been mostly my time and some materials. I have all my gear from the previous build. I do not swap gear out as a hobby i like focusing on the install and tuning for the most part. There is no way I could afford to pay someone to build it, so we roll up our sleeves and see what we can do!


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Looking great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay a bit more progress on the insanity.

Coated the inside with some milkshake mixture and did some gluing of the basic pieces.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Tops glued on with polyurethane and air nailed 😁

But not trimmed or shaped


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

is the super excited me test fit into the car door with panel on!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Now the moment i have been waiting for after many many hours of work !!!!

And many many more to go … haha

I better get to work 🤓


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

The one pic skews how much the 8” intrudes. Which is not that much so i will put up a better pic for those that may be curious.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Can I ask why did you angle the midbass? At that frequency it shouldn’t matter? Or am I wrong? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Elektra said:


> Can I ask why did you angle the midbass? At that frequency it shouldn’t matter? Or am I wrong?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It won’t matter… but it kinda looks cool mirroring the mids I think… that was the only reason I could come up with


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## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

Could this help with matching left and right response more closely and reduce the near side null?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

dumdum said:


> It won’t matter… but it kinda looks cool mirroring the mids I think… that was the only reason I could come up with


Just seems to take up leg room… unless the magnet depth of the Brax made it impossible to mount flat? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mikebiz23 (Jun 27, 2020)

Are the enclosures mounted off the door or just the door skin?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Elektra said:


> Can I ask why did you angle the midbass? At that frequency it shouldn’t matter? Or am I wrong?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why yes you may ask.

I wanted to do a DIY experiment to see if it does indeed delivers a positive benefit . 

The goal was to have the drivers in the same arc as the main stage to align the voice coils as much as possible to try and obtain the 

The best frequency and phase response from the driver for the passband I was interested in
on-axis alignment 
Have the driver integrate seamlessly with the above dash stage to maximize sound staging.
and this is supposed to be a DIY site and not buy from a professional and have it all built.

And most of all I am curious and do not always follow the dogmatic statements


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Mikebiz23 said:


> Are the enclosures mounted off the door or just the door skin?


The enclosures are mounted to the door and not the door panel.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay the enclosures are built but not beautified so that means it was time for a test this weekend.

I hooked up my test system and installed the front 3-way stage.

I spent the weekend just playing and listening to tunes no building.

And there is more leg room than the picture illustrates, the angle are not flattering 🙄


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> Why yes you may ask.
> 
> I wanted to do a DIY experiment to see if it does indeed delivers a positive benefit .
> 
> ...


I'm also curious on this. Is an A/B test with off-axis in the works, or is this going to be based off of impressions from the previous car? 

Really enjoying the thread, keep up the great work!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And for giggles a rta hit showing the potential 

Seamless transition across the 40-20khz response of the system and the listening sessions i did where a lot of fun. i could stare right at the Ml8’s and i could hear no sound localized to the driver. The bass was super solid, punchy, clean and delineated extremely well.

Experiment a success so in am going to keep going!!!

Left , right and both sides ( after about 11 minutes of eq setting)

crossovers
95hz- mb to mid
2200- mid to tweet


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

It has been fun so far and a lot of work. I enjoy the Diy side of this and experimenting.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

ejeffrey said:


> I'm also curious on this. Is an A/B test with off-axis in the works, or is this going to be based off of impressions from the previous car?
> 
> Really enjoying the thread, keep up the great work!


No off axis at this point as it would be way to much work , lol. So I am using my previous car as a baseline and all other cars I have heard with MB integration in the doors and under the seats, etc.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> No off axis at this point as it would be way to much work , lol. So I am using my previous car as a baseline and all other cars I have heard with MB integration in the doors and under the seats, etc.


That’s phase and timing, but I’m guessing you have that nailed as you’re a female me 😂 personally I don’t see any advantage to having drivers on axis playing those freqs, I am going to be putting hybrid 6x9 in the kicks as I can detect a very subtle pull down to only the right underseat in mine, your angled baffle puts the voice coil deeper into the corner vs it being flat in the door is the only advantage I can see, but I’d still do IB kicks over doors any day… I did measure the phase of kicks vs under seats in mine and kick is a lot nicer, kicks aren’t issue free, but a lot smoother with half as much of a null in the midband 😎


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

thats alright dumdum you are not forced to build anybody else's build  

Well In my install I see no advantage at all to kicks or cutting up the car to get it. My voice coil position is almost there already and i have great freq. response with no dips at all in the current location which I have shown. The left and right side are basically identical in response between the two sides as well. the mid bass plays down to 40 Hz solid and that is pretty good for a 3way front stage. I will always choose proper alignment of drivers over assumptions it does not matter . Everything matters and you pick your compromises that you can live with.

I can move my head inches in either direction and rotate ( swivel) my head and the stage is solid and does not collapse or shrink. it is pretty cool to listen to out of phase stuff as it really messes with the head with no apparent location or center to anything. 

I can hardly feel any vibration in the enclosure as it sits and the door is a non-event. It is about speaker location to me door or not. 

I can pull the enclosure off and put the original door panel back on and the car is back to stock in 20minutes with no extra holes or damage done so I view that as a win in my books. same with the pillars. the stock pillars can be put back in with no damage at all. So I am good with being able to do a bit of crazy but be able to put the car back to stock in very little time


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Dumdum, hard to say without an experiment of normal aiming of the midbass but is it possible like you saw with kicks, that the nulls are shifted since the driver isn't playing primarily across the short side of the car but the longer length of the car? So it is possible the nulls were pushed OUT of the midbass frequency and into the subwoofer frequency so the nulls were no longer an issue. Again, that is a potential benefit but isn't able to be validated without a comparison of the ML8 in the same vehicle with normal door driver placement.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

dgage said:


> Dumdum, hard to say without an experiment of normal aiming of the midbass but is it possible like you saw with kicks, that the nulls are shifted since the driver isn't playing primarily across the short side of the car but the longer length of the car? So it is possible the nulls were pushed OUT of the midbass frequency and into the subwoofer frequency so the nulls were no longer an issue. Again, that is a potential benefit but isn't able to be validated without a comparison of the ML8 in the same vehicle with normal door driver placement.


You can’t aim a midbass to lose the across the car null, it plays omni directional at freqs below well over 500hz with an 8”, to suggest otherwise is never going to happen

however…

What you can do is play it in such a narrow band you avoid the nulls with steep slopes, I’m fairly sure measurements with smaart at 1/24octave in the phase plot will show a standing wave/kink at some freq in the pass band in at least one midbass in this instance… unless it’s one of those freakish cars like my friends very special car that happens to have both the length and the across the car nulls line up and cancel each other out so the response at the listening position is unaltered from the nearfield of the driver


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

AudioGal said:


> Finding acoustic car treatments in Canada at a reasonable cost is not easy these days. The price is horrendous to say the least.


Ok good. I thought it was just me that noticed this. It would be swell to find a decent supplier in canada.


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## Wy2quiet (Jun 29, 2010)

Amazing to see another Canuck do everything in the spirit of what this site exists to exemplify, the diy aspect. Wish I had the commitment to really try some crazy things like this, but not in the cards for me now. Looking forward to seeing more progress. This site has some really inspiring people on it. Great work so far.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Wy2quiet said:


> Amazing to see another Canuck do everything in the spirit of what this site exists to exemplify, the diy aspect. Wish I had the commitment to really try some crazy things like this, but not in the cards for me now. Looking forward to seeing more progress. This site has some really inspiring people on it. Great work so far.


Thank you for the kind and supportive words 🤗🤗
It is never to late, one just needs to start and bite off the elephant one bite at a time!!! 

I have made more progress in that the pods have been painted with custom fine texture paint and they have been mounted — pics to come

The midbass enclosures have been mounted as well but they are unfinished at this point - weather is getting to cold - and i will need to finish up the beauty work next year.

I built a temporary amp rack to house the amps, processor, router and a couple other things so i can get the system up and running in the car. The amp
rack is also a prototype test idea that is a cantilever design bolted down between the rear wheels that still allows me to access the spare tire and all access panels. No panels or plastic has been cut so the car can be returned to stock in no time.

The system is set up as a 3-way with no external sub( not needed) as the MB ‘s play down to 33 hz at the target curve as it sits now.

The system as a starting baseline is sounding great and the vertical on axis alignment of all
drivers is producing an incredible 3 dimensional sound stage as hoped for…

I am super happy with the minimal & overkill system that is setup as a basic 3-way.

I am so tempted to just leave it as a 3-way , maybe add rear fill and call it a day. I had a number of ideas i am/ was wantIng to try out but i may just enjoy this for a while.

I will forward pic’s when i get a chance.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I should add that it is and has been fun testing ideas and challenging myself on building ideas, skills and making mistakes and fixing them. 

imho the gold is in building a vision, trying out new things and seeing it through to a working system that hopefully delivers on your vision. That has been the basis of what gives me motivation to try the crazy stuff …. so far so good … haha 🤓


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Plain jane amp rack installled for winter!

It allows access tol my spare tire and i have almost all my cargo capacity in check.

Lots of options to beautify in the spring and summer months when i rebuild the rack and put in the rest of the system 😎

One C4 for the left side and one for the right side pretty simple eh!!


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Nice! can't help but wonder what is the power supply and Asus piece used for?


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

Audiogal you do what you have to. My Jeep will still blow yours away. Ok the hat been thrown down. Lol


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

DaveG said:


> Nice! can't help but wonder what is the power supply and Asus piece used for?


Oh they are Toneloc2 panic devices 😎


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

My new car digital music source. 

I was not satisfied with the Fiio m11 pro or any other source so i decided to try something unique.

I installed a music server … running the innuos Sense OS through a wifi web interface. 

Power supply regulates 12v for the wi-fi router and the innuos music server. 

Innuos Zimi Mini mark 3 - which i can take between my house bd car. I can still use the fiio but i can also use this when i want to really enjoy the system 😎

Both systems connect through digital coax.










Right under the rear seat arm rest… perfect fit 😁


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Being the system use a web interface through wifi any device can connect to the music server which is cool… phone, ipads , tablets etc 💜


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Was just talking about something along these lines with @abizzle. I'm tagging him so he can see how you've done it. Thanks for sharing and as usual awesome job! Dave


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

DaveG said:


> Was just talking about something along these lines with @abizzle. I'm tagging him so he can see how you've done it. Thanks for sharing and as usual awesome job! Dave


You bet and thanks, The SQ difference is quite substantial across the board and well worth it imho .

The innuos is a giant killer and performs quite well in home circles.. It takes 12v in so it can work in a car although that is not its intend usage it is compact, rugged and sounds great.


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

Great work Audiogal if you remember your last thread I am a big fan of door enclosures. someday I may experiment with kicks or under seat, but I will never run mid-bass speakers IB in a door again.
Around .5-.6 ft3 was what my boxes came out to as well. I usually add AP ports to my door boxes as well as they are a bit small for my 9.5" Satori's I think. I never see a big difference on the RTA but they always sound better to me when I do this. I'm sure you have it figured out better than I do though.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

preston said:


> Great work Audiogal if you remember your last thread I am a big fan of door enclosures. someday I may experiment with kicks or under seat, but I will never run mid-bass speakers IB in a door again.
> Around .5-.6 ft3 was what my boxes came out to as well. I usually add AP ports to my door boxes as well as they are a bit small for my 9.5" Satori's I think. I never see a big difference on the RTA but they always sound better to me when I do this. I'm sure you have it figured out better than I do though.
> 
> View attachment 313972


I've just experimented with some boxes as well. Doors ring. I've always been able to hear bass coming from the door itself as well as the driver. Regardless of the amount of treatment, bracing, ect.
The boxes don't do that. The rta looks the same but they sounds very different.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> You bet and thanks, The SQ difference is quite substantial across the board and well worth it imho .
> 
> The innuos is a giant killer and performs quite well in home circles.. It takes 12v in so it can work in a car although that is not its intend usage it is compact, rugged and sounds great.


That is awesome! Never would have considered that! I’m using the Zen Mini + LPSU in my 2 channel, and I love the sound of that server. Well done! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

preston said:


> Great work Audiogal if you remember your last thread I am a big fan of door enclosures. someday I may experiment with kicks or under seat, but I will never run mid-bass speakers IB in a door again.
> Around .5-.6 ft3 was what my boxes came out to as well. I usually add AP ports to my door boxes as well as they are a bit small for my 9.5" Satori's I think. I never see a big difference on the RTA but they always sound better to me when I do this. I'm sure you have it figured out better than I do though.
> 
> View attachment 313972


Very nice Preston , taking the sparkler out of door IB really does sound so much better and no door rattles to deal with !


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> That is awesome! Never would have considered that! I’m using the Zen Mini + LPSU in my 2 channel, and I love the sound of that server. Well done!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I bought the Zen mini a year ago to use in my yaris and home system but i never got the chance in the yaris. it is definitely a nice unit and the 12v in sold it for me, plus it is easy to take back into the house to! b

Innuos sense works great and i like it better than Roon for SQ as well. I am going to let my Roon subscription lapse when it comes due.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> I bought the Zen mini a year ago to use in my yaris and home system but i never got the chance in the yaris. it is definitely a nice unit and the 13v in sold it for me, plus it is easy to take back into the house to! b
> 
> Innuos sense works great and i like it better than toon for SQ as well. I am going to let my toon subscription lapse when it comes due.


Very cool - I’ll try Innuos Sense (my dealer said they were working on a Roon killer, but I wasn’t sure if it had come out). 

I’ve been using iPeng since I bought the Zen a couple years ago and have liked it. I love the ripping functions, and having a 4TB hard drive. I’m looking forward to taking it to my next headphone meet (haven’t had one since CoV) will be great to have that for demos. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## abizzle (Jul 13, 2021)

AudioGal said:


> I installed a music server … running the innuos Sense OS through a wifi web interface.
> 
> Power supply regulates 12v for the wi-fi router and the innuos music server.
> 
> Innuos Zimi Mini mark 3 - which i can take between my house bd car.


This Innuos device looks proprietary, is that correct? I used to be a Home A/V installer and Automation Specialist, but I don’t remember hearing that name. It’s been a few years tho.

I’m considering installing a Raspberry Pi 4 or a mini-ITX PC to act as a music server, LED Controller, OBD Utility, and any other function I may think of, but I wanna try to stay away from proprietary systems. I was looking at Carberry and Automotive Grade Linux.

I like your idea, but I guess I’m looking for something geared more towards an Infotainment system with a 10” touchscreen. Does your device play high-res FLAC at 24-bit/96kHz?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

abizzle said:


> This Innuos device looks proprietary, is that correct? I used to be a Home A/V installer and Automation Specialist, but I don’t remember hearing that name. It’s been a few years tho.
> 
> I’m considering installing a Raspberry Pi 4 or a mini-ITX PC to act as a music server, LED Controller, OBD Utility, and any other function I may think of, but I wanna try to stay away from proprietary systems. I was looking at Carberry and Automotive Grade Linux.
> 
> I like your idea, but I guess I’m looking for something geared more towards an Infotainment system with a 10” touchscreen. Does your device play high-res FLAC at 24-bit/96kHz?


The Innuos is no different than any other music only streamer with on board disk storage as far as proprietary goes. It is not a multimedia server at least as of yet. You can use numerous software options in front of it such as Roon, iPeng, and their own new system Isense which I prefer. There may be other options to. The Innuos is a dedicated music server only and puts all its resources to delivering a clean and well timed digital out stream and nothing more, which is one of my most critical requirements. All of these other functions distract the CPU and add jitter and noise to the digital output stream. If I was wanting to run other functions I would add a second small pc like you mentioned to run the wiz bang stuff and not pollute the music source in any way. The ipad or phone or what ever web interface device you use only controls access the web server on the device and does no part in streaming the stored music on the Innuos. the music is streamed from the hardrive to the output coax connection directly. 

For multimedia, I can us my ipad pro as a video source and the USB-C out to the Helix USB in card (which I have) and play videos content that way if I want to as well. This keeps the music side of things pure. I am a bit crazy this way but that is how I am, 🤪, sssshhh don't tell anybody, haha. I wanted a 2 channel home audio rig in my car and I think I am getting really close now to my goals.

Personally I wanted to stay away from the Pi stuff and the open source side of things as that was not where i wanted to put my attention in the system. The Pi would be good as a entry level streamer and would be great to do all the extra processing functions your are looking at however as stated early, I wanted a top notch music source with no compromises, in a car anyhow, lol! In the Innuos line you can spend crazy money and this unit is the budget option, 

I really wanted a music server that worked great as is, has a nice front end, is all integrated, and can stream if I want to put a internet connection on it. In the car I run offline only as the data rate in Canada is robbery. And to top it off, the Zen Mini sounds absolutely wonderful and competes with pricier home gear no problem. Plus I unplug three cables and I can take it into the house and use it in my home system no problem and it works wonderfully there to. That was my second requirement so I did not have to maintain two music collections, etc....

It can play all the PCM formats and most of the DSD formats but since I do not stream or have DSD raw files I am not up to date on it DSD high bandwidth performance . I do own like 50 plus SACD disks (sharing my age here), however I have spent no time figuring out how to rip them to disk, someday i might put attention to this.

I love having the music server in my car now that I have it running, and where ever you land I am sure it will be great and suit your needs 

Keep me posted on your progress as we can all learn from what other people are doing !


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Very cool - I’ll try Innuos Sense (my dealer said they were working on a Roon killer, but I wasn’t sure if it had come out).
> 
> I’ve been using iPeng since I bought the Zen a couple years ago and have liked it. I love the ripping functions, and having a 4TB hard drive. I’m looking forward to taking it to my next headphone meet (haven’t had one since CoV) will be great to have that for demos.
> 
> ...


In my system it absolutely sounds better than Roon. Roon is wonderful for all the curation features it has but I think in going that route they lost a bit of sight on the sound quality side. I used 10% of the curation features although Roon radio is nice, and in the car Isense is definitely the way to go as it sounds great and is free with the unit!

Headphones are cool mine are out of date but someday I will upgrade that to. I have an orgional set of AKG 240 sextext phones ( mid release model) that are my museum pieces and a newer set of AKG phones but nothing super fancy. Another rabbit hole there , lol!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> But... I knew this was not the dream plan i had for the car when I bought so I threw away that idea and decided to upsize
> 
> I made another mock baffle built up a basic structure and sealed it with high-end acoustic duct tape, lol, Again MFT and proof of concept.
> 
> ...


6.5s up top! What the F***
I also have 6.5s in my pillars , ****iit I have full blown 3ways up there , 

Okay I already like you .... that’s awesome e


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> Okay the enclosures are built but not beautified so that means it was time for a test this weekend.
> 
> I hooked up my test system and installed the front 3-way stage.
> 
> ...


why in the f*** haven’t I met you yet......
and your a chick.....

Me and 100 other guys think we belong together..(jk) . lol ..... I absolutely love this !
f*** yeah your car is awesome.
And I’m not just sayin that , you have 6.5s up high..... your officially the only person on here that I know of (besides me) that can mock whimsy 3” midrange..... dood you made me smile so big !! 😁😊🤩🤪


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> why in the f*** haven’t I met you yet......
> and your a chick.....
> 
> Me and 100 other guys think we belong together..(jk) . lol ..... I absolutely love this !
> ...


 haha not sure and i do tend to break the mold. Thanks !!!!

ya i figured small mids are okay but most serious home systems have more driver area for the midrange so i thought i would try and make it work . It is not for everybody but the SQ benefits of a simple 2-wat wide bandwidth front stage are easily heard. I say 2-way because the doors are really subs in sealed boxes. I cross the subs at 90hz all all drivers play to each others pass band effortlessly which also shows up in the final presentation.

So far so good. It a car nothing perfect but there is a lot of attributes that I am really liking.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> why in the f*** haven’t I met you yet......
> and your a chick.....
> 
> Me and 100 other guys think we belong together..(jk) . lol ..... I absolutely love this !
> ...


that would be doodet    and thanks so much. I have a few more crazy things i might try out in the spring summer when it warms up again. I am no profesional just a hobbist so it takes time and sometimes a few tries to get what i see in my head and ears right.

ya nothing compares really, it is the only way to listen and drive !!!

I did it all without really seeing anybody else do what i was trying to do. all in a vertical alignment even the sub stage.

Send my a couple of pic's of your build please?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

That’s awesome ... yeah I was kidding about 3” being whimsy , there only whimsy when trying to play low and loud...

kinda Crazy I can’t find a 3” rated for more then 60wrms ..... except one, dynaudio esotan 3.... there’s some really good 3”.... but you know how much more sound is made from a 6,

and for me, the 250-1k range is the best part of the music.

Yes I’ll pm you some pics 😊😊😊


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> That’s awesome ... yeah I was kidding about 3” being whimsy , there only whimsy when trying to play low and loud...
> 
> kinda Crazy I can’t find a 3” rated for more then 60wrms ..... except one, dynaudio esotan 3.... there’s some really good 3”.... but you know how much more sound is made from a 6,
> 
> ...


No cross overs between 90 -2200hz i think plays a big role in the continuity of the human voice and instruments also. The 6.5" just has more range and because it does not have to dig deep the cone excursion is minimized and the midrange plays cleaner. Looking forward to the pic's  

I would love to hear your system some day and some of the others, especially those on the competition circuit but living up here makes it tough.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> No cross overs between 90 -2200hz i think plays a big role in the continuity of the human voice and instruments also. The 6.5" just has more range and because it does not have to dig deep the cone excursion is minimized and the midrange plays cleaner. Looking forward to the pic's
> 
> I would love to hear your system some day and some of the others, especially those on the competition circuit but living up here makes it tough.


Yeah I hear you about no crossovers in the mid range

we’re gonna have to get you a mini DSP. lol 🤯


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I am going to try something a little different for turning on the audio rig and wi-fi system. I am
not running the rig off the head unit and i am
only using a digital input source at this time.

I picked up a 12v relay that can be controlled from a FOB key. I am going to use this to turn my rig on/off independently from the car. It has a range of 30m or 100ft apparently. It is a cheap enough thing to try out.

The stereo can be up and running and sync’d to the wi-fi before i get to the car so there is no lag time.

Plus i do not have to worry about the car turning off after 15 minutes of circuit engine off usage.

Hopefully it works as anticipated 

The unit has 4 channels so i can control up to 4 separate 12v triggers all for $20.

If i really like it and i want a better unit i will
pony up for it later. I may also put in a. mbattery saver relay to take the 12v trigger off line at a preset voltage . I will see 😁


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> Yeah I hear you about no crossovers in the mid range
> 
> we’re gonna have to get you a mini DSP. lol 🤯


If it is free i will give a go …. maybe 😂😂

It is a lot of work tearing the system apart and testing stuff …


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

AudioGal said:


> No cross overs between 90 -2200hz i think plays a big role in the continuity of the human voice and instruments also. The 6.5" just has more range and because it does not have to dig deep the cone excursion is minimized and the midrange plays cleaner. Looking forward to the pic's
> 
> I would love to hear your system some day and some of the others, especially those on the competition circuit but living up here makes it tough.


6.5” can be a little hard to fit for most cars - but a 5” can work as well - the Scanspeak 5” that came with the 2 way F1 status speakers actually outperformed most 6.5” drivers but if your only interested in 90-3000hz they will do just fine - also Scan make a midrange driver that’s 5” and 6.5” if I recall - from the Revelator range…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

AudioGal said:


> I picked up a 12v relay that can be controlled from a FOB key. I am going to use this to turn my rig on/off independently from the car. It has a range of 30m or 100ft apparently. It is a cheap enough thing to try out.


how are you going to post that without a link? haha I guess i'll just go google it but that little unit could be so useful for so many things.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Jheitt142 said:


> how are you going to post that without a link? haha I guess i'll just go google it but that little unit could be so useful for so many things.


Oops sorry the pics did not attach !!!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I did my first test run today.

Started up the system in the house, then cued up the tunes i wanted to listen to and when i got to the car they where playing. Started the car and drive off.

The innuos Sense application has a digital
volume so i can also adjust that before going in the car from my phone or what ever web interface connected to my car wi-fi network.

Same with leaving a grocery store or leaving a restaurant. All up and running before i get in the car.

So i am pretty happy with the remote 12v trigger 😁


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Elektra said:


> 6.5” can be a little hard to fit for most cars - but a 5” can work as well - the Scanspeak 5” that came with the 2 way F1 status speakers actually outperformed most 6.5” drivers but if your only interested in 90-3000hz they will do just fine - also Scan make a midrange driver that’s 5” and 6.5” if I recall - from the Revelator range…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ya possibly, the Scans I have heard so far have not really did it for me yet. A guy up here is putting a full Scans set up in his car over the winter. So I should get a good listen. After hearing the 6.5 up there I am so glad I did it. Just a totally different presentation then the typical front stage in a car.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

So a couple of changes to share. I have upgraded my wifi router to a Pepwave BR1 mini ltea unit which can support dual SIM cards for cellular internet.

i have also added a battery saver controller that has configurable setting to automatically shut off the 12v trigger to the system if the battery voltage drops below a certain point to prevent killing my battery.

And i changed out the key fob 12v trigger unit to a different unit with more range and a reliable rf connection for On/Off function.

I now have the option with the wifi lte router to run a microsoft surface pro which i bought used recently I i picked up the pro 4 for reasonable $.

I can now use a tablet like device to control the system and program the helix as it is windows based. I can at any time use a phone, tablet or the surface pro to control the innuos thru wifi.

The LTE capacity allows me to run maps and search functions via the internet on a nice big screen while driving plus play movies and multi media content. The system is really starting to shape up!!!

The rack is a bit messy looking however i will
be rebuilding it when the weather smartens up in a few months 😎


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And as an early b-day and christmas present to myself i picked up a set of ML6 mids to replace my GL6 mids. I now have a matched set.

ML1
ML6
ML8

I installed them last night and just listened on the GL6 tune. I am pretty excited as eve. with a suboptimal tune the improvement over the GL6 is evident. 

Today is retune day !


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Very nice drivers


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> And as an early b-day and christmas present to myself i picked up a set of ML6 mids to replace my GL6 mids. I now have a matched set.
> 
> ML1
> ML6
> ...


Top shelf drivers.....very nice birthday and Christmas present - well played! 

Looking forward to further impressions and maybe some REW screenshots. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ILX Cheeta (Feb 23, 2020)

AudioGal said:


> Okay, i have put a good dent in the midbass build.
> 
> Starting to figure out what i can and cannot do, and i made a template i can index to existing holes that are on the panel and in the door.
> 
> ...


Did you need to do any sound deadning to the doors? Like people do when we use stock speaker location in doors.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

ILX Cheeta said:


> Did you need to do any sound deadning to the doors? Like people do when we use stock speaker location in doors.


Hey, good question. From a speaker performance perspective no , not required at all. From a road noise perspective yes it is required. I need to spend some time sound proofing the car for road noise most definitely when it warms up
again.

There is almost no vibration transmitted to the doors from the enclosure 😁


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## ILX Cheeta (Feb 23, 2020)

AudioGal said:


> Hey, good question. From a speaker performance perspective no , non required at all. From a road noise perspective yes it is required. I need to spend some time sound proofing the car for road noise most definitely when it warms up
> again.
> 
> There is almost no vibration transmitted to the doors from the enclosure 😁


Thanks, that is great info.
I appreciate the help.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

ILX Cheeta said:


> Thanks, that is great info.
> I appreciate the help.


You bet, any time !


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

AudioGal said:


> You bet, any time !


Thank you, AudioGal - you've inspired me to attempt a similar project, although FAR simpler and a little closer to your previous build. In fact, simpler than your earlier one, too, but same basic idea, and hopefully with good sonic results.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

hella356 said:


> Thank you, AudioGal - you've inspired me to attempt a similar project, although FAR simpler and a little closer to your previous build. In fact, simpler than your earlier one, too, but same basic idea, and hopefully with good sonic results.


Awesome i am glad you can grab some ideas and make it your own!! Best present ever is paying it forward 😃


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Update: Well my first true acid test completed over Christmas break. Two 8 hour drives to the farm in the country and back to the city plus another 6 hour drive in between the two road trips. I am supper happy with the Innuos music server, LTE router and the general overall SQ of the system. I was enjoying the music into hour 7 as I was hour 1 and this held true throughout the whole trip. This has never happened before. The smile never left my face and the time just flew by in all honesty.

On to rear fill to add the last bit of ambiance and then to start work on the official summer amp rack project and finsih out the doors properly including a healthy dose of sound deadening ( wind and road noise) as well.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Oh and I also installed a Bluetooth HD HEC card into the Ultra to give me the option for another easy to go to source. Since the iPhones do not support APTX HD the SQ is just okay and a definite step down from the Innuos. I use this interface for kids phones, my phone or any device that cannot connect through BT. When I get a chance to test a APTX HD compatible source it will be interesting to hear the difference. 

It is nice to have for the convenience and quick easy get in the car and drive factor. I installed it in anticipation of the new DSP tuning software coming out this year to allow for BT wireless tuning so we will see how that pans out. So now I have a top notch SQ option and the convenience option available which I can switch between using the Director.

So that is about where I am at until the weather decides to warm up from -27c. At least the tunes sound good !


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Update: Well my first true acid test completed over Christmas break. Two 8 hour drives to the farm in the country and back to the city plus another 6 hour drive in between the two road trips. I am supper happy with the Innuos music server, LTE router and the general overall SQ of the system. I was enjoying the music into hour 7 as I was hour 1 and this held true throughout the whole trip. This has never happened before. The smile never left my face and the time just flew by in all honesty.
> 
> On to rear fill to add the last bit of ambiance and then to start work on the official summer amp rack project and finsih out the doors properly including a healthy dose of sound deadening ( wind and road noise) as well.


That is fantastic to hear! Great tunes reproduced really well make a long drive great for me! I’m hoping to do a 10 hour round trip next week to have the tune analyzed, so I’m looking forward to (hopefully) having a similar experience as you 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey Audio Gal! Thought about you today - any updates since the weather has been getting better (at least down here it has)? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Hey Audio Gal! Thought about you today - any updates since the weather has been getting better (at least down here it has)?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Hey Bertholomey, haha ya it has started to warm up but not quite enough yet. I have built a in house test rig with DSP , amp and speakers to hone and play with. Working on SMAART skills , lol!!! Getting ready to put the new knowledge into the car soon. Still lots to do in the car yet. How about yourself? How is the Innuos working out?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Hey Bertholomey, haha ya it has started to warm up but not quite enough yet. I have built a in house test rig with DSP , amp and speakers to hone and play with. Working on SMAART skills , lol!!! Getting ready to put the new knowledge into the car soon. Still lots to do in the car yet. How about yourself? How is the Innuos working out?


Very cool! I bet that test rig is a lot of fun! My buddy Steve did the same thing to test out all the components in his system. Gary in California put together this amazing rig to do the very same thing. 












The Innuos is working well - easy to move from the Home to the Car - my little router works well, and the Innuos Sense app typically pics up the server quickly - I still use iPeng on occasion when the Sense app is giving me sass. 

Some day I may invest in SMAART or SysTune - I’ve seen both used, and they are powerful tools. I’m looking forward to your final instal.....measure twice, cut once 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Very cool! I bet that test rig is a lot of fun! My buddy Steve did the same thing to test out all the components in his system. Gary in California put together this amazing rig to do the very same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Neat I am not the only crazy one!!! My test rig is not quite as elaborate but very similar just less speaker channels. Although I have doubled up the channel count as I am also measuring other things in the process to. I am refining and validating my measurement and tuning process so I need access to the compete data set of the system  It is pretty cool taking it to another level of understanding. I had to pick up a new USB audio interface to accommodate all of the channels I am interested in. It can be expanded to add more channels as needed.

The Innuos is a wonderful source and works well. I am happy to hear it is working for you !!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

An example of my test and play spread sheet mostly focused on IR, time domain and phase domain measurements, and playing. It is my work in progress and does not have all the formulas and linking completed yet and it is not meant to be an, be all end all thing if you know what I mean 🤪


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

But i am refining it to the point that I can measure, calculate and give me the DSP delay values based on the tuning parameters I am measuring for with this part of the setup and tune. The house testing is going great so far, lots learned !! If the weather smartens up I am going to play in the car this weekend maybe, as I have a handle on the measurements, what i should see a feel for the nuances and all that jazz and the basic pit falls.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Wow! Let me say that again....Wow! 

You are enjoying the science with the art. My friend John Kiser is the same. All of this science and sound engineering is way over my head - as much as I have enjoyed watching John work his SMAART / SysTune apparatus, I’ve always thought the learning curve would be too steep for me. 

It is very cool though to see the folks who want to know the how, why, and what is going on, to see how the sound can be improved, and the ability to make the improvements by leveraging their tools. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

it must be nice to have all that time to do these A/B/C...Z comparisons before even putting anything into the car 

I don't understand how a living room demo environment helps sort drivers given how much an automotive interior is acoustically radically different.

This is why I want to go with a DIRAC capable DSP and drivers that are generally well lauded for my install and let the software due the bulk of the heavy lifting on tuning.


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

steelwindmachine said:


> it must be nice to have all that time to do these A/B/C...Z comparisons before even putting anything into the car
> 
> I don't understand how a living room demo environment helps sort drivers given how much an automotive interior is acoustically radically different.
> 
> This is why I want to go with a DIRAC capable DSP and drivers that are generally well lauded for my install and let the software due the bulk of the heavy lifting on tuning.


I don't want to speak for her but, I think she is testing out a different way to tune. I don't believe she is testing speakers.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

steelwindmachine said:


> it must be nice to have all that time to do these A/B/C...Z comparisons before even putting anything into the car
> 
> I don't understand how a living room demo environment helps sort drivers given how much an automotive interior is acoustically radically different.
> 
> This is why I want to go with a DIRAC capable DSP and drivers that are generally well lauded for my install and let the software due the bulk of the heavy lifting on tuning.


Where you chose to put your time is your decision to make  I come from a very heavy test and measurement background, and thus I am interested in understanding the measurement process, measurement capabilities and the test gear before I undertake serious to me measurements. I enjoy acoustics and other related disciplines. It is important to understand the measurements and data completely, DIRAC or otherwise, imho.

A measurement is made up of data, the process and gear to obtain the data. My home experimenting was and is to make sure I have a high level of confidence in my process, gear , understanding of the gear, measurement and data. To get what I needed to reduce the variables as much as i could, so i set up a home test rig. So now that I have satisfied the previous points , I have confidence in undertaking the measurement and interpreting it correctly including understanding what constitutes good data vs bad data. I can now repeat the same process in a car and have a much better idea of what to expect , and how to get what I want where the environment is much more complex.

At no point is the home exercise a direct car tune exercise just a learning and understanding exercise. 

SMAART (pick your tool here) allows me to characterize and understand the car system environment (audio environment) in many ways that I did not have access to before with just an RTA. Knowing and understanding of all the pieces, which is a ongoing journey, makes me better at tuning my car and the interesting part of this hobby for me.

I hope that helps to clarify what i am up to


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Wow! Let me say that again....Wow!
> 
> You are enjoying the science with the art. My friend John Kiser is the same. All of this science and sound engineering is way over my head - as much as I have enjoyed watching John work his SMAART / SysTune apparatus, I’ve always thought the learning curve would be too steep for me.
> 
> ...


Lol well said, science and art is so............ true. I really like both sides and getting a handle on the big picture and the nuances that go into the big picture. Some day I may be smart enough to understand it all !!!

Ya that darn learning curve is kind of interesting. Starting from total scratch with no electronics an/or audio knowledge makes it a super steep hill to put all the pieces together. Fortunately I have had various opportunities professionally to pick up a lot of stuff and bring that into the learning curve for undertaking this challenge. As things sink in the concepts start to collate and come together connect the dots so to speak !!

RTA is sort of an absolute viewpoint and 2 channel IR and transfer is a relative view of the system to a reference signal with a exact copy of the refence signal to compare to.

All fun and games !!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

steelwindmachine said:


> it must be nice to have all that time to do these A/B/C...Z comparisons before even putting anything into the car
> 
> I don't understand how a living room demo environment helps sort drivers given how much an automotive interior is acoustically radically different.
> 
> This is why I want to go with a DIRAC capable DSP and drivers that are generally well lauded for my install and let the software due the bulk of the heavy lifting on tuning.


You're kinda missing the mark here...
What she is doing is WAAAYYY beyond anything Dirac can accomplish. Not even in the same ballpark.

For what it's worth; she already has a system in her car... and it sounds incredible. Superior to anything I've ever heard in any automotive system.









2016 Venza build log - It has been a while but I am...


Hey all, I thought i would share my ideas, build and journey out there with the masses . I am no professional and I like to try different approaches and ideas. Learning as I go. My goal is to get as close to the 2 channel home audio experience in my car as I can. My previous Yaris build was a...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JimmyDee said:


> You're kinda missing the mark here...
> What she is doing is WAAAYYY beyond anything Dirac can accomplish. Not even in the same ballpark.
> 
> For what it's worth; she already has a system in her car... and it sounds incredible. Superior to anything I've ever heard in any automotive system.
> ...


Lol, thanks JimmyDee for the enthusiasm!!! I must put it out there to limit possible flame throwers and such.....i make no comparison to dirac capabilities or otherwise, just wanting to learn, push and apply new things for me to my hobby!!! DIRAC does some cool stuff, and stop getting me in trouble JimmyDee ,  😇

haha, I do love the enthusiasm thought !!!!


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

AudioGal said:


> An example of my test and play spread sheet mostly focused on IR, time domain and phase domain measurements, and playing. It is my work in progress and does not have all the formulas and linking completed yet and it is not meant to be an, be all end all thing if you know what I mean
> 
> View attachment 330960


Are you using different midbass crossovers for each side?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Elektra said:


> Are you using different midbass crossovers for each side?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey nope, and someone actually looked at the spreadsheet..... amazing !!!!
The DSP crossovers are identical. I did shift them around to play with sub-optimal cross over matching between mid-bass and sub including different order crossovers 12 and 24/octave for example. The acoustic crossovers presented differently than the DSP crossover setting and was slightly different between left and right side, due to mostly reflections (cancelations), sub-optimal placement (on purpose) of the sub relative to the speaker. This resulted in the +/- 10db acoustic crossover (guideline) on the magnitude trace to be quite unique for each side including the width of the overlap band. Once i determined the acoustic cross overs i could phase match to that between main and sub. The idea is to optimize the freq. band with the actual (real) overlap presented between SUB and Mains where both speakers are actually contributing to a summed response in their acoustic cross over region.

Playing in the house allowed me to test a lot of scenarios which was very informative. The gear used in the home test rig btw is not what i am using in the car at all, not even the DSP or amps. I used shelf components for my test rig and created test points along each access connection in the system to understand the individual component contribution ( distortion/ response) within the context of the system response. I am going to port the measurement test rig to the car with all access points connected and repeat when it warms up that is .... burrr


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Phun with Phase , lol!!!

An example of summation, just one of many use cases I played with at the acoustic crossover +/- 10 dB overlap points between sub and main, determined via the magnitude trace.

The green line is the mid-bass and sub combined output before and yellow after phase alignment showing summation at the acoustic cross over point. The subs overall frequency BW is horrible. It is in a cheap Attend dual 10" enclosure. The sub response is very peaky which makes it very hard to match to the Mid-bass which rolls off to early and is not really playing that low either. But in any case it is good practice working with less than idea use-cases. So just a simple real example.

No gain adjustments or EQ adjustments between the traces, only Phase (delay) optimization in the acoustic cross over region. And again this is in the house and not the car


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Can you explain the process you used in the phase alignment?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Phun with Phase , lol!!!
> 
> An example of summation, just one of many use cases I played with at the acoustic crossover +/- 10 dB overlap points between sub and main, determined via the magnitude trace.
> 
> ...


Remind me as well - were you going to use a sub in the car or simply use the 8’s in the doors?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> Can you explain the process you used in the phase alignment?


Why I get a chance to play with it in the car and validate some of my assumptions I can lay out some basics. I am still working through a few nuances, lol!!

This guy has some cool videos and I am leveraging his and a few others process ideas and making my own, since my whole system is active and I need to account for the change in delay across the left and right side and account for that to bring the two side back together in alignment after the phase adjustments.



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzL6MMJcUBaSvW11gFXc1w


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Remind me as well - were you going to use a sub in the car or simply use the 8’s in the doors?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The real answer is I am not sure yet. I do want to replace my door MB drivers with actual subs at a min. If I and a larger sub on top of that remains to be seen. I would like to all things being equal, but car audio funds are hard to justify at this point especially since i drive so little and a few other factors, lol!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

My home test rig is using a hertz DSP which is very limiting in many ways, so I will need to move to the car soon so I can have the Helix DSP to try more things and firm up my book of knowledge. The more i add the less i know it seems, haha !!!! I might need to track down a used helix for my home rig, much more comfortable playing in the house.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Ok after many months i have started on the fab side of my system again.

I changed my door pods to
a more conventional layout and installed a 1inch baltic birch baffle. The enclosure is 16.75 litres.

I tried something different and packed the enclosures with sherpa wool.

I covered the enclosures with vinyl, and i sound dreadend my doors . I need to build the grill.

And i have changed out the Ml8-mid with the ML8 -sub. There is a hefty increase in authority and some more extension . My first time covering vinyl and it turned out pretty decent. Some mistakes but that is how it goes 😛


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Look terrific to me! Looking forward to additional updates now that things have thawed out ‘up there’ 


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Look terrific to me! Looking forward to additional updates now that things have thawed out ‘up there’
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Haha thanks , ya , i was not sure it would ever thaw out up here. It is nice to have finished looking doors again, though!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

One word comes to mind here and that is dedicated. I have not the time, energy, or will anymore.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JCsAudio said:


> One word comes to mind here and that is dedicated. I have not the time, energy, or will anymore.


 Keep moving forward, always something to tweak and tune. The car audio bug comes and goes , however few hobbies touch so many disciplines and skills that it is fun to do !!

I have not even got to my amp
rack yet, and i want to refinish my dash pods and …… lol!!!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

AudioGal said:


> Ok after many months i have started on the fab side of my system again.
> 
> I changed my door pods to
> a more conventional layout and installed a 1inch baltic birch baffle. The enclosure is 16.75 litres.
> ...


NICE! Those door enclosure pods sure remind me a lot of the ones I made for my '93 Ford Aerostar Extended AWD van system back in the day. 

I used that ugly beast to comfortably haul all of my photo gear and some crew or models for photo shoots back then. Was great for my surfing/camping expeditions as well.

I used the old reliable 8" Peerless XLS8 midbass drivers in the doors with excellent results. And the 1st Gen Diamond Audio HEX silk comp set that was made by Eton & LPG for the front stage mids and tweeters. Sony CDX-C910 head unit with Toslink output to Sony XDP-210EQ and then XDP-4000X digital processors, with 1 or 2 Infinity Beta 15X subwoofers in down-firing sealed enclosures that barely fit and slid under the 3rd row folding bench seat. Xtant and early Arc Audio amplifiers for power. Some cheap 3.5" Pioneer 2-way coaxials thrown in the rear hatch lid locations for rear fill and a separate preset for a "Tailgating" setup. Tons of Dynamat and neoprene CCF everywhere made it a nice and much quieter ride.

I need to dig out the photos. Of course they were all taken on "analog" film back then, so I need to find them and scan all of this stuff for posterity, haha. Good times.


Carry on! Very interested to see where you take it this time!

What about trying the Audison Bit One HD Virtuoso DSP with its 9-channels of FIR filters?


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

AudioGal said:


> Keep moving forward, always something to tweak and tune. The car audio bug comes and goes , however few hobbies touch so many disciplines and skills that it is fun to do !!
> 
> I have not even got to my amp
> rack yet, and i want to refinish my dash pods and …… lol!!!


True and I do still have it but I also have many other hobbies I like to do + kids that are into sports and things with a demanding job and at the end of the day I’m either too tired or out of time, lol.

I’ll tell you what though, I enjoy listening to the system in my truck just about every day I drive it and if I dont listen to it for a few days or more and then decide to rock out to my favorite song it still wows me every time which is what makes me happy. The wife got a new Kia Telluride EX a few months ago and she told me she didn't want me to touch it but I give her a year and she’ll be asking me to improve the audio because it sounds boring compared to what she had in her previous car.

Ive still got the amp switching device I use to compare amplifiers seamlessly in my attic along with 210 amps worth of high qaulity power supply, which one of these days will make for a fun bring your best amplifier showdown meet here in New England.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

AudioGal said:


> Keep moving forward, always something to tweak and tune. The car audio bug comes and goes , however few hobbies touch so many disciplines and skills that it is fun to do !!
> 
> I have not even got to my amp
> rack yet, and i want to refinish my dash pods and …… lol!!!


What drove your decision to abandon your previous woofer config? I'm guessing they encroached too far into the foot space?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

hella356 said:


> What drove your decision to abandon your previous woofer config? I'm guessing they encroached too far into the foot space?


Oh a couple of things.

1. The magnet on the Ml8- sub is quite a bit bigger so there was not enough room to fit it.
2. i am able to add some more air volumne with the new arrangement
3. i installed a proper 1inch baffle so super solid for the sub
4. the previous configuration although it has really good air columns it could not quite use it as the anglesd driver created a weird box scenario. 
5 . the leg room was pretty good better than the pics showed, however this new config is obviously much better than the previous version

Iterate, iterate, iterate , super slow agile process lol!!

I am super glad i tried the previous config as it worked really well for the most part 🤓


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bbfoto said:


> NICE! Those door enclosure pods sure remind me a lot of the ones I made for my '93 Ford Aerostar Extended AWD van system back in the day.
> 
> I used that ugly beast to comfortably haul all of my photo gear and some crew or models for photo shoots back then. Was great for my surfing/camping expeditions as well.
> 
> ...


Cool, system, it is always interesting hearing about other systems that are or did something similar. I am certainly not inventing anything here that's for sure , lol!! I really like the performance of a sealed speaker in the door compared to a conventional mount. With the new speakers I am finding rattles in the car now, but the doors are solid and quite. I did fully deaden the doors and applied a good covering of closed cell foam to 

If only i had a money tree, my equipment stays pretty consistent for the most part. I have not tried the Audison stuff. If only i knew where that money tree was located  I am super happy with the Ultra so far.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Well i decided to add the Brax ML8 grills as i thought they finished off the build doors wonderfully. The stainless steel looks incredible!!

Not the best pic as the garage was a little dark and the door only opens so far lol!!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

^^^. You made the right call on that one for sure.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

@AudioGal



Coppertone said:


> ^^^. You made the right call on that one for sure.


Agreed.

Even if it's not a more OEM-integrated look that I generally prefer, it looks fantastic.  Well done!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bbfoto said:


> @AudioGal
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awe …. thank you , i really appreciate the feedback!!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

That was a great choice aesthetically and with a mind to protecting the cone from inadvertent bumps - especially by a service person - getting in or out quickly. Good call! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> That was a great choice aesthetically and with a mind to protecting the cone from inadvertent bumps - especially by a service person - getting in or out quickly. Good call!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks, and by ones own kids too.... . the previous mounting did not need it as the enclosure made it hard to get at the cone but with the new mounting method they are wide open for the taking, if i did not do something😲.

now i need to plan out my offical amp rack design and replace my winter temporary rack .... hmmmm so many options 🤓


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

AudioGal, I'm looking to do something similar with door pods. It's been looking to me like I'll need to simply cut the bottom portion of the door cards off to attach the boxes, but you appear to have successfully cut a hole in the cards to accommodate the boxes. Would you happen to have any additional photos of how you did this? Does the box attach to the door, then the card simply fits over it? Your work looks excellent, much better than I anticipate mine ending up if I lop off the bottom. Without knowing what audio qualities that each of your solutions yielded, I loved the extreme, pushing-the-limits insanity of your previous setup, although I think I'd personally rather live with your newer, stealthier, more compact config. 

Thanks for continuing to update us on your vehicle, it's one of my favorite builds.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

hella356 said:


> AudioGal, I'm looking to do something similar with door pods. It's been looking to me like I'll need to simply cut the bottom portion of the door cards off to attach the boxes, but you appear to have successfully cut a hole in the cards to accommodate the boxes. Would you happen to have any additional photos of how you did this? Does the box attach to the door, then the card simply fits over it? Your work looks excellent, much better than I anticipate mine ending up if I lop off the bottom. Without knowing what audio qualities that each of your solutions yielded, I loved the extreme, pushing-the-limits insanity of your previous setup, although I think I'd personally rather live with your newer, stealthier, more compact config.
> 
> Thanks for continuing to update us on your vehicle, it's one of my favorite builds.


Why thank you hella356 😊 and ya push the limits and try stuff out and live on the skinny branches , that is where the fun is anyhow!!

Ya i needed to fit the bigger magnet so the extreme enclosure had to go, that being said, the current enclosure performs very very well , and integrates with the dash speakers extremely well. 

Based on my door design i decided to try and do an insert style. It was tricky and took a lot of fiddling and i went slow to ensure a tight fit. I think i have pictures earlier in the thread so have a look but the general idea is this and it is all about creating indexing points to index the door to the door panel and the enclosure. With the indexing the enclosure and door panel all have the exact same refence points.

I used two door panel attachment holes and one of the original speaker mounting holes as my index points.

I then created a flat template that would be the shape i wanted and as large as i needed. this took a lot of fiddly measurements but well worth it. the template was made out of 1/4 particle board or something like that. the template had mounting tabs at the three locations on it that where the exact same tabs i was going to use on the enclosure.

this template was used to dimension the enclosure by flush trimming the door mounting plate of the enclosure to the template. that became the shape that would poke through the door panel.

Since the door panel shared 2 of the three mounting (index points) as the door and the enclosure i could lay the same template panel on the back side of the door panel using the index points with dowels inserted. laying the template on the back side of the door skin i created a outline (using marker) of the template . I then nervously cut out the line on the inside ( margin of error) and i had the basic hole. 

The basic enclosure outside dimension (back and walls) was built and using the indexing tabs laid it on the back if the door panel and finished the second roughed in cutout for the actual enclosure on the door panel. Sine the index holes where also the door card (panel mounting holes ) there was minimal opportunity for movement or misalignment. I did this for each side of the front doors.

Then I mounted to the door using 1/4 machine bolt nutserts . I them went through the process of putting the door panel on and finish out the final cut to allow for covering materials and trim pieces.

I took a lot of measurements, did more test fitting than i could count and all that type of stuff. For a raw amateur I am really happy wit how they turned out. The performance is excellent and the rattles from the door are minimal and easily handled with standard deadening and closed cell foam , etc..


Hopefully that makes some sense, if not ask away and i will do a better job of explaining


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I was going to cut the door card in half but with the curvy design patterns on the door card and a few other factors i thought i would try doing an insert method instead. the fall back could very easily have been well that did not work so i need to cut the door card in half and go from there, lol!!!


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

AudioGal, that looks very nice, well done and I bet it sounds spectacular now on low end


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> AudioGal, that looks very nice, well done and I bet it sounds spectacular now on low end


Thanks LB Audio, the improvement to the low end is quite a dramatic improvement. Extended lows, more dynamic punch while retaining the musicality and rhythm in the lower notes with excellent pitch delineation and definition with no bloat or overhang or boominess. A very worthwhile upgrade !!

To be totally fair though the ML8 mid is a midbass driver so i was using it in the wrong application. Correct for my Yaris but not for the Venza.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

AudioGal said:


> I was going to cut the door card in half but with the curvy design patterns on the door card and a few other factors i thought i would try doing an insert method instead. the fall back could very easily have been well that did not work so i need to cut the door card in half and go from there, lol!!!


Thank you. After looking over your earlier pics, I can see that the Venza doors have quite a bit more room (height) for an enclosure at the bottom than the doors of my Sonata have. It's going to be a squeeze to get an enclosure for the 7" Anarchy 704 drivers I have on-hand to fit. It looks like you could fit 10" drivers in your doors if you saw fit. Yeah, the curvy contours make things tricky. I will have to reassess whether an insert style cut on the door cards is possible - after taking a closer look at yours, it definitely looks like the way I'd prefer it, but if I have to simply lop off the bottom, so be it.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

hella356 said:


> Thank you. After looking over your earlier pics, I can see that the Venza doors have quite a bit more room (height) for an enclosure at the bottom than the doors of my Sonata have. It's going to be a squeeze to get an enclosure for the 7" Anarchy 704 drivers I have on-hand to fit. It looks like you could fit 10" drivers in your doors if you saw fit. Yeah, the curvy contours make things tricky. I will have to reassess whether an insert style cut on the door cards is possible - after taking a closer look at yours, it definitely looks like the way I'd prefer it, but if I have to simply lop off the bottom, so be it.


Funny you should mention 10" driver.... I had thought about it seriously!!! However they are 7-8 Lbs heavier and I would need to of built out part of the enclosure another 3-4 inches to get the air volume required for the ML10. I decided based on driver weight and some level of sensibility to stick with the 8" and I am glad I did, LOL!!! It is perfect for that spot.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And ya give it a go, which everyway you decide it what's best for your build and needs. Please keep me posted hella356 😊


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

AudioGal said:


> And ya give it a go, which every way you decide it what's best for your build and needs. Please keep me posted hella356 😊


Hi, AudioGal. I'm finally getting ready to start the process. I'm curious (and could be mistaken) - it seems you used fastening points of the door cards as index points for the location of the boxes, in relation to both the doors and the door panels. That makes sense to me. Then you ended up drilling 3 new holes in the door metal, and attached the boxes to *those *holes via rivnuts or similar. Thus, the fastening points of the door cards were clear of the box mounting points, remained intact and open, and you were still able to utilize them to reattach the panels with the standard clips. Is this correct?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Hey Hella356, yes that is the idea. Use the common built in reference points to get everything lined up to the door card and the door. Once the enclosure could be properly mounted to the door i removed the tabs a the door card mounting locations. I cannot wait to see your progress


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I thought i would post an unlikely improvement i installed for my enjoyment of music in my car. The Venza seemed really susceptible to wind noise through the front of the side windows. I tried everything. The doors are fully deadend and sealed, I installed extra weather stripping around the door edges. This past week I tried something different and I installed wind deflectors on all my windows. The benefit has been wonderfully positive and the side wind window ingress noise has been significantly reduced and basically eliminated. What was driving me nuts for over a year has been fixed once and for all. Maybe other cars have similar issues and this may help out. To say I am super impressed with the results would be an understatement 😀


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks for the input, gal! I have my original door cards intact, so the spare ones I've been using as my test units can be hacked up however I choose. So I've decided to just cut the bottoms off them completely. I figure it will be a lot quicker to get the boxes installed and running. Also means that I could swap different size/shape boxes without having to mess with the cards at all. I have Anarchy 704 and Dayton Epique, which each have a range of potential enclosure sizes to try. Thinking I'll try building two sizes: somewhere around 0.13cf and 0.26cf. Fortunately, both speakers have the same bolt pattern for easy swapping. Ideally, one of the speaker sets in a small box will win out sonically, which would allow for the "insert" style you're using with my original cards. Glad to have a extra set of cards. Hell, the whole car is somewhat of a testing/learning rig for my next car, anyway.

Awesome the wind deflectors have been so helpful! I'll have to look into that. My wind noise isn't bad, but, hey, every bit helps.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I thought about doing the door cut in half thing but on my doors it would have been less optimal for what i wanted. I feel the same way about my car as it is an experiment to try different ideas too, lol!!

I also have my original door cards intact and untouched, including A-pillars. I could put the car back to totally stock in probably 30 minutes if I wanted to. So it is good to have spares as you say, lol!!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

AudioGal said:


> I thought i would post an unlikely improvement i installed for my enjoyment of music in my car. The Venza seemed really susceptible to wind noise through the front of the side windows. I tried everything. The doors are fully deadend and sealed, I installed extra weather stripping around the door edges. This past week I tried something different and I installed wind deflectors on all my windows. The benefit has been wonderfully positive and the side wind window ingress noise has been significantly reduced and basically eliminated. What was driving me nuts for over a year has been fixed once and for all. Maybe other cars have similar issues and this may help out. To say I am super impressed with the results would be an understatement 😀


Thanks for sharing.  I've thought about using these in the past because I have one older vehicle that has this same issue (fully sound deadened, so wind noise seems more prominent now), but I thought that while they might work to help keep rain out when your side windows are slightly opened, they might actually make wind noise worse.

I'll have to see if Weather-Tech makes them for my vehicle. They are a quality brand IMO and I've been happy with their other products.

Cheers


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bbfoto said:


> Thanks for sharing.  I've thought about using these in the past because I have one older vehicle that has this same issue (fully sound deadened, so wind noise seems more prominent now), but I thought that while they might work to help keep rain out when your side windows are slightly opened, they might actually make wind noise worse.
> 
> I'll have to see if Weather-Tech makes them for my vehicle. They are a quality brand IMO and I've been happy with their other products.
> 
> Cheers


Weather-tech, did a good job here for my car at least. Venza's are known to be susceptible to wind noise issues apparently. I can say that they definitely helped a lot on my car specifically, so much so in fact that the kids even commented on the improvement before and after, even at slower speeds to . I do not know if every car will benefit as mine did and i did not know if mine would either tbh but I was willing to give it a try at this point. I tried everything else, Thankfully they did !!!

I hope they work as well for you as they did for me bbfoto, if you decide to try them


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

hella356 said:


> Thanks for the input, gal! I have my original door cards intact, so the spare ones I've been using as my test units can be hacked up however I choose. So I've decided to just cut the bottoms off them completely. I figure it will be a lot quicker to get the boxes installed and running. Also means that I could swap different size/shape boxes without having to mess with the cards at all. I have Anarchy 704 and Dayton Epique, which each have a range of potential enclosure sizes to try. Thinking I'll try building two sizes: somewhere around 0.13cf and 0.26cf. Fortunately, both speakers have the same bolt pattern for easy swapping. Ideally, one of the speaker sets in a small box will win out sonically, which would allow for the "insert" style you're using with my original cards. Glad to have a extra set of cards. Hell, the whole car is somewhat of a testing/learning rig for my next car, anyway.
> 
> Awesome the wind deflectors have been so helpful! I'll have to look into that. My wind noise isn't bad, but, hey, every bit helps.


Hella, build the larger enclosure first obviously, and then you can simply add solid objects inside it in increments to see how small you might be able build the final enclosure before the response significantly changes to where it is non-ideal for your implementation to the subwoofer(s) and/or midrange. If you have a Dayton Audio DATS v3 you can easily measure the impedance with each change in enclosure volume to see where and how much impedance rises in relation to Resonance (Fs).


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Well, opps i did it again. A super nice opportunity came up from a friend and i could not refuse so I pulled the trigger and decided to try the Brax GX 2400 amp. I am still using my winter rack ( temp rack). I needed to rewire and rearrange somethings as well as add an extra 1/2 inch to the height of the rack and cut the sides to allow for cable room but it is installed and making sound. A very rough safe tune is in place. This amp rack is a temp install and once I have my final amp solution I will redo the whole thing to bring it up to the same level of completion as the front stage.

I had to change the speaker arrangement from a separate left and right amp to the C-fours running bridged for the subs in the doors. And the Brax amp running the mids and tweets. The mids and tweets cover 100-20Khz range so almost full range anyhow. With how the initial sound is shaping up ( first impressions) i think I am going to be saving for a 2nd amp to pair with the first amp. The speculation of if the two amps sound the same, close or substantially different is over for me now. I could never get a real suitable answer from anybody so now I know. Once i get a better tune in place and some more hours on the amp I can report out my thoughts into the ether-verse , at some point in the future, lol!!


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Nice! I'm underway with the door boxes. If you would like to comment, I have a thread about it. Don't want to keep clogging up your posts.

Door box project


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Well, opps i did it again. A super nice opportunity came up from a friend and i could not refuse so I pulled the trigger and decided to try the Brax GX 2400 amp. I am still using my winter rack ( temp rack). I needed to rewire and rearrange somethings as well as add an extra 1/2 inch to the height of the rack and cut the sides to allow for cable room but it is installed and making sound. A very rough safe tune is in place. This amp rack is a temp install and once I have my final amp solution I will redo the whole thing to bring it up to the same level of completion as the front stage.
> 
> I had to change the speaker arrangement from a separate left and right amp to the C-fours running bridged for the subs in the doors. And the Brax amp running the mids and tweets. The mids and tweets cover 100-20Khz range so almost full range anyhow. With how the initial sound is shaping up ( first impressions) i think I am going to be saving for a 2nd amp to pair with the first amp. The speculation of if the two amps sound the same, close or substantially different is over for me now. I could never get a real suitable answer from anybody so now I know. Once i get a better tune in place and some more hours on the amp I can report out my thoughts into the ether-verse , at some point in the future, lol!!
> 
> ...


That is very exciting - getting that piece of equipment that to your ears, makes a positive difference, is really cool! I’m excited for you as you get that last piece in then complete the amp rack! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> That is very exciting - getting that piece of equipment that to your ears, makes a positive difference, is really cool! I’m excited for you as you get that last piece in then complete the amp rack!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


thanks man, ya the insanity never stops does it !!! And we still continue on this journey knowing full well how it ends up 🤪 

On a more serious note, this change is definitely a positive step in the right direction. I just need to retune the car again darn it... not really that is the fun part!!


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks a million for the encouragement & advice, AudioGal! The door box project has turned out great, even with un-broken-in drivers & a quick initial tune.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Just heard @AudioGal vehicle with the Brax amp addition... a definite imnprovement!
We're talking percentile differences at this level, but it's a definite noticable improvement over the C-Four.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

hella356 said:


> Thanks a million for the encouragement & advice, AudioGal! The door box project has turned out great, even with un-broken-in drivers & a quick initial tune.


Hey you bet, i am super excited that you felt inspired to try it out and are enjoying success …. BRAVO !!!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JimmyDee said:


> Just heard @AudioGal vehicle with the Brax amp addition... a definite imnprovement!
> We're talking percentile differences at this level, but it's a definite noticable improvement over the C-Four.


Hey Jim, it was an awesome day yesterday for sure!!

Ya the long standing mystery for my curiousity has been solved finally about the difference between the cfour and the GX 2400. I could get no clear answer from anyone not even ATF.

The Brax is an awesome SQ amp improving on the strengths of the cfour in everyway. From micro dynamic shading and flow, instrument body, separation and general sense of realism. Including a real sense of 3D spatial cues and placements. The dynamics are incredible both small and large with the amp not going into dynamic compression at all with a sense of ease and flow that is not forced, edgy or unnatural. 

There is oddels of resolution with out fatiguing edgy detail common with lots of electronics. in a system driving for wonderful SQ with drive and rhythm this amp delivers in spades. If you appreciate really good 2channel audio in the home , have the experience and gear that does that for you there , then the differences are very evident. The brax really could work in a high end home situation no problem.

The attack and transient decay of each note is there and unforced. 

The cfour is an absolutely excellent amp especially compared to most car audio amps i have had the privilege of hearing to date. The Brax steps things up to the realm of high end home audio amps and delivers the same type of presentation and performance. 

No brightness, edginess or farigue at all. Smooth, natural and effortless. The soundstage is wide, deep and has delineation in height and within the stage. Each instrument or vocalist has a place and space . No smearing and overlap creating confusion and compression.

Drawbacks would be the price obviously, and the heat generated from this unit. The amp is very transparent and will not hide a bad install, upstream gear choices ( including BT sources) . Tuning will be key to get the balance you like. This is not the amp to put in an colour (flavour) your system or make everything and source material sound pleasing or the same. If that is your thing , then i would
suggest a different amp. Chasing a brand name or what ever would do this amp
a disservice imho. You need to take care of all
your ducks.

Is the amp worth the price over the cfour , for my system it is to me no doubt about it!! 😎


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> Well, opps i did it again. A super nice opportunity came up from a friend and i could not refuse so I pulled the trigger and decided to try the Brax GX 2400 amp. I am still using my winter rack ( temp rack). I needed to rewire and rearrange somethings as well as add an extra 1/2 inch to the height of the rack and cut the sides to allow for cable room but it is installed and making sound. A very rough safe tune is in place. This amp rack is a temp install and once I have my final amp solution I will redo the whole thing to bring it up to the same level of completion as the front stage.
> 
> I had to change the speaker arrangement from a separate left and right amp to the C-fours running bridged for the subs in the doors. And the Brax amp running the mids and tweets. The mids and tweets cover 100-20Khz range so almost full range anyhow. With how the initial sound is shaping up ( first impressions) i think I am going to be saving for a 2nd amp to pair with the first amp. The speculation of if the two amps sound the same, close or substantially different is over for me now. I could never get a real suitable answer from anybody so now I know. Once i get a better tune in place and some more hours on the amp I can report out my thoughts into the ether-verse , at some point in the future, lol!!
> 
> ...


Your welcome audiogal. Hope you enjoy it.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Oops i did it AGAIN ! I liked the first one so much i decided to try a second one. I managed to get it installed into the temp rack. I will finish installing and setting up this weekend. But for now i made it this far.

Next weekend i may pull things apart and build a more permanent amp rack. We will see how ambitious i get!!


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## audionow (Oct 29, 2021)

I see a new brax dsp in your future


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

wow!
that is some really tight fit. Hope those two BRAX amps will bring big smile on your face!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

audionow said:


> I see a new brax dsp in your future


The crazy part is that; @AudioGal sent me a message, showing pics of this new amp... then half an hour later, she says; _"I can't stand staring at it in the wooden box, I need to install it"_... then 15 minutes later, she send me pics of the new amp installed!

I work pretty fast, when I get going... but I think she may have broken my speed record!

Don't we all turn back into little kids, when we get a new toy... congrats @AudioGal. I also see a Brax DSP in your future (and mine)...


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> wow!
> that is some really tight fit. Hope those two BRAX amps will bring big smile on your face!


Haha heck ya and you know they will, in fact they already have @LBaudio 😀 😀 !!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

audionow said:


> I see a new brax dsp in your future


Oh my it is the missing link for sure but Oh man !!!!! that price is a shocker.... if I do it will take a while !!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JimmyDee said:


> The crazy part is that; @AudioGal sent me a message, showing pics of this new amp... then half an hour later, she says; _"I can't stand staring at it in the wooden box, I need to install it"_... then 15 minutes later, she send me pics of the new amp installed!
> 
> I work pretty fast, when I get going... but I think she may have broken my speed record!
> 
> Don't we all turn back into little kids, when we get a new toy... congrats @AudioGal. I also see a Brax DSP in your future (and mine)...


You know it, I am an impatient girl.. and based on the first one i just had to get this one in there. With this rack, no fabrication is involved just some rewiring and a shoe horn which is easy to do. the next rack will take some time. For now though this will work just fine!!

I have no doubt a Brax DSP is in your future Jimmydee, mine is not so clear but ya never know some day perhaps 🤞


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

AudioGal said:


> Oh my it is the missing link for sure but Oh man !!!!! that price is a shocker.... if I do it will take a while !!


thats what you said about the Brax amps... less than 6 months ago!


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

JimmyDee said:


> thats what you said about the Brax amps... less than 6 months ago!


The same after the first amp🤣🥳🥳🥳


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> The same after the first amp🤣🥳🥳🥳


, 
lol so very true all ... and i did get carried away lately that's for sure 🤪 🤪 however the Brax DSP is priced well above my current toys 😲 but ya never know with me do ya!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I decided to tidy things up a bit more and organize the rack a bit differently. Practicing some ideas before i commit to a new rack build.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay, I am now playing with the proper version of the rack. All amplifiers have been accrued.

Brax 2400 - Left side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the left sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
Brax 2400 - Right side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the right sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
Helix C-four - rear fill and perhaps a future center channel just to play nothing more or something else TBD
Helix C-One - rear sub ( TBD) for 15-30 Hz duties 

Helix Ultra on the main shelf layer under the helix amps. I am going to build a tilting top shelf .

Power distribution and grounds are on the main base later as well under the 2nd helix.

I am also planning some fans , just have to figure out what i want.

I will have some sort of custom beauty panel which is in the works concept wise.

the amps will not overlap as the floating amp rack will be extended about 2 inches so there is no overlap. The pic just shows a mock-up of that i am thinking.. I really like the floating amp rack above the rear tire area. It has worked wonderfully this last year. So i am keeping the basic concept.

Left the fun begin hopefully this weekend !!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Okay, I am now playing with the proper version of the rack. All amplifiers have been accrued.
> 
> Brax 2400 - Left side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the left sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
> Brax 2400 - Right side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the right sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
> ...


Those are exciting changes! I’m happy for you that you have found an upgrade path - very cool that the difference in sound / performance was easily discernible. That rack will look fantastic, and now you have all the flexibility you need for the future. I hope it goes well this weekend! 


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Those are exciting changes! I’m happy for you that you have found an upgrade path - very cool that the difference in sound / performance was easily discernible. That rack will look fantastic, and now you have all the flexibility you need for the future. I hope it goes well this weekend!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thank you sir!!! anytime we are working on the system is indeed a wonderful time so there is no choice but for it to go well 😎

You are totally right-on about the upgrade path, no limiting factors in gear here now. the Brax amps are an above and beyond addition. very musical and natural with amazing micro and macro dynamics, with tons of resolution with out being analytical about the presentation. Grinning ear to ear I am 😁


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

AWESOME build thread!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

BP1Fanatic said:


> AWESOME build thread!


Thanks so much for the positive feedback, much appreciated !!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

AudioGal said:


> Grinning ear to ear I am 😁


I picture this with a Yoda voice...


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

JimmyDee said:


> I picture this with a Yoda voice...
> View attachment 341648


I had the same thought 


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

The Force is strong with this 1!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Amp rack version 2 has begun in ernst. Measuring, designing , remeasurimg, cutting and lots of router work.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And more of the mockup done, aka test fitting 😁


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

The Brax rack is going to be on hinges and pneumatic lifts , so i can tilt it and get at the DSP and power systems. Beauty panels to be done a bit later. Making good progress and thoroughly enjoying the process !!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> The Brax rack is going to be on hinges and pneumatic lifts , so i can tilt it and get at the DSP and power systems. Beauty panels to be done a bit later. Making good progress and thoroughly enjoying the process !!


Even my wife was super impressed with that design and execution - next level stuff right there!!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Even my wife was super impressed with that design and execution - next level stuff right there!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks sir!!

It is coming along nicely. Hopefully i can get it glued up, pneumatic system sorted and painted so i can get tunes back. Once it is in the car i can work on the. beauty panels around the structure !

I have to get cracking before winter comes again. 2 days without tunes and i am already missing the system.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Thanks sir!!
> 
> It is coming along nicely. Hopefully i can get it glued up, pneumatic system sorted and painted so i can get tunes back. Once it is in the car i can work on the. beauty panels around the structure !
> 
> I have to get cracking before winter comes again. 2 days without tunes and i am already missing the system.


I hate it even though I’m only in the car ten mins driving from the workshop to home 😂


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

AudioGal said:


> I am also planning some fans , just have to figure out what i want.


Jason is correct, this is next level design for sure!

On the fans, take a look at Noctua brand… it’s what alot of computer modders use and the idea is to use large diameter fans run at slow rpm’s. Likely a push / pull config to draw air across the amps. Hope this helps.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Thanks mumbles for the positive support !!!, ya that is exactly what i was thinking large diameter slow RPM fans to keep the dB down as much as possible. Truth be told up here in Calgary I am not sure i need fans as it really does not get that hot here except for a week or two and the amps have stayed reasonable so far. I put some extra height in each section to allow for better airflow in general also and to give my options down the road.

I am going to rig up a temperature and voltage monitoring system to track some data first before i make any significant upgrades on the temperature control side of things.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Noctua fans are amazingly quiet, even the tiny 40mm ones that spin fast to move air. 

Actually here is a direct comparison (to the extreme when it comes to array of small fans) and it did actually turn out that 21 of the 40mm fans going all at once was no louder than 2x 140mm fans (all Noctua, same series).


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

That’s awesome info thanks !!!


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## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

AudioGal said:


> I am going to rig up a temperature and voltage monitoring system to track some data first before i make any significant upgrades on the temperature control side of things.


Brax used to sell a fan controller and temperature display - have one in my loft somewhere…


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

Ac Infiniti has a very nice $40 fan controller with a built in thermostat that powers up to six super quiet fans via usb. They have standard 3”, 4” and squirrel cage fans.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

SQ_Bronco said:


> Ac Infiniti has a very nice $40 fan controller with a built in thermostat that powers up to six super quiet fans via usb. They have standard 3”, 4” and squirrel cage fans.


Nice , i will refer back to the thread if i decide to put in fans , awesome advice so far!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay , spent the day figuring out the lift setup and glueing the rack together and doing a basic rough sanding. Two 26lbs lift cylinders seem to do the trick and will allow me access to the dsp and power stuff as well as the bottom of the Brax 2400 to do up al the .connections. For such a simple
amount of wood there has been far more hours put into this thing then what would seem obvious, lol!

I also mounted tabs for the beauty panels to
magnetically clip to when i get to that stage !!

Next will be a test fit in the car , make any adjustments and then sand and prep the rack for painting 😁


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Looks fantastic - great use of space and engineering - I shared the pics with my little WhatsApp group of car audio chaps 


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Oh my gosh geesh… thanks !!! please be gentle in the chat 🤗


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay, after i took my dog for a walk i decided to try a test fit. 

I am
super excited with how the skeleton frame of the gear rack turned out. Lots of room left, 100percent access to the spare tiire. The floating rack should work great again. To tilt the top shelf i need to put the seats down ( which i was thinking i would have to do anyhow). The fit, access and the setup for clean cable runs is now in place. Beauty panels will top it all off nicely to !


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

When in am in the process of painting the rack, inwill
take the back seat out and apply deadening in the back half of the car. Make use of the drying time of the paint. I have a few things i still
need to build for the rack before i paint though so hopefully tomorrow i can get that done and a coat of primer on the rack.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Very well thought out amprack and great woodwork!🤓


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> Very well thought out amprack and great woodwork!🤓


Why thank you sir!!!, simple but effective is my moto here , lol!


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Okay, after i took my dog for a walk i decided to try a test fit.
> 
> I am
> super excited with how the skeleton frame of the gear rack turned out. Lots of room left, 100percent access to the spare tiire. The floating rack should work great again. To tilt the top shelf i need to put the seats down ( which i was thinking i would have to do anyhow). The fit, access and the setup for clean cable runs is now in place. Beauty panels will top it all off nicely to !


You’ve ruined it 😂 my ocd says the small upright section of birch for the bottom ram anchor should be on the inner ends of the three holes piece so you can’t see the upright part through a hole, and then move the ram outboard so you could see it’s end through the innermost circle hole… my eyes! 🙈🙈

other than that, most lovely work! It’s a thing of beauty for sure and very functional also 👍🏼


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

dumdum said:


> You’ve ruined it 😂 my ocd says the small upright section of birch for the bottom ram anchor should be on the inner ends of the three holes piece so you can’t see the upright part through a hole, and then move the ram outboard so you could see it’s end through the innermost circle hole… my eyes! 🙈🙈
> 
> other than that, most lovely work! It’s a thing of beauty for sure and very functional also 👍🏼


Well, that's it... she clearly has to start over... LMAO!


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

AudioGal said:


> When in am in the process of painting the rack, inwill
> take the back seat out and apply deadening in the back half of the car. Make use of the drying time of the paint. I have a few things i still
> need to build for the rack before i paint though so hopefully tomorrow i can get that done and a coat of primer on the rack.


Have you considered using Duratex? The only reason I mention it is that even with lots of primer, the end grain on the birch can still show through the paint... Duratex is thicker like bed liner so it should cover that up. It's also rollable or sprayable.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

mumbles said:


> Well, that's it... she clearly has to start over... LMAO!


I know right 😂😂


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> Well, that's it... she clearly has to start over... LMAO!


haha ya right, lol!!! 

I have since changed the design though to fill in the center hole's so there is no see through action any more and the OCD folks can now sleep at night again 😲 😁 

Whew.... dogged a bullet there


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> Have you considered using Duratex? The only reason I mention it is that even with lots of primer, the end grain on the birch can still show through the paint... Duratex is thicker like bed liner so it should cover that up. It's also rollable or sprayable.


I am putting a primer coat on to seal the wood so it is smooth and there seem to be good coverage so far with no to minimal no grain showing through and I was going to use SEM texture coat to cover the rack and i was thinking about bed liner as well but i was not sure about the texture and thickness. You have me thinking again.... hmmm ???


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

AudioGal said:


> haha ya right, lol!!!
> 
> I have since changed the design though to fill in the center hole's so there is no see through action any more and the OCD folks can now sleep at night again 😲 😁
> 
> Whew.... dogged a bullet there


Thank you for caring about our collective mental health! Cool rack, manages to look both simple & complicated at the same time.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

AudioGal said:


> I am putting a primer coat on to seal the wood so it is smooth and there seem to be good coverage so far with no to minimal no grain showing through and I was going to use SEM texture coat to cover the rack and i was thinking about bed liner as well but i was not sure about the texture and thickness. You have me thinking again.... hmmm ???


If you are getting good results, don’t mess with success 😎


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> If you are getting good results, don’t mess with success 😎


Primer coverage is good, but perhaps the SEM texture coat will not be durable like bed liner. Is there another product that works as well as Duratex? The reason i ask is that trying to find Duratex in Calgary seems to be an impossible task and maybe tougher than finding SEM paint which was a super big hassle. Multiple searches has turned up zilch for Duratek bedliner here. Thoughts would be much appreciated!


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

AudioGal said:


> Primer coverage is good, but perhaps the SEM texture coat will not be durable like bed liner. Is there another product that works as well as Duratex? The reason i ask is that trying to find Duratex in Calgary seems to be an impossible task and maybe tougher than finding SEM paint which was a super big hassle. Multiple searches has turned up zilch for Duratek bedliner here. Thoughts would be much appreciated!


Does Parts Express do Canada? That's where I got some from.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

DaveG said:


> Does Parts Express do Canada? That's where I got some from.


Was also going to suggest PE


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay, another update. I decided to take a bit of a break from the amp rack and sanding and filling, yuck!! And tackle some sound deadening in the rear half of the car up to and including the rear seats mounts. Driving the car gutted with everything removed proved to be pretty noisy even around town. I did not take any measurements so I am just going by subjective impressions. I only had so much material so i had to focus on the sides of the car, wheel wells and and rear floor area. I can do the rest at a future time when i acquire more material. This is a piece meal job for me that i am fine tackling over time 

I applied the sound deadening material to the full back area from the roof down where it made sense and full coverage where i could. The before and after driving impression was very noticeable, with significantly reduced exhaust noise and road noise. I have not done anything with the rear doors yet and they where noticeably nosier (ingress) than the areas that were treated. So i definitely need to do the rear doors in the near future and i am very happy with the outcome. Once i get the rest of the rear installed including seats i am expecting even more of an improvement subjectively. Either way it was a lot of work and I am glad it is done. I can now finish out the amp rack and any future sub installation without worry about foundational work projects to be completed. The rear material of the Toyota is pretty thin and resonant and responded well to treatment. So not a fancy update just an update of a basic job that needed to get done😎 

One thing i need to do is to figure out a good process for removing the scuff marks from my interior panels. A few years of kids and hauling stuff has left the panels a bit banged up and the Toyota panels seem to mark easily.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

The other task i worked on over the weekend was installing rear fill. I have Brax ML3 speakers that i am going to use for rear fill. Over kill but i have them and they need to be making sound again even if it rear fill. In my case rear fill is not full range sound but ambient, reverb based fill (L-R) etc.

The Venza had a crazy c-pillar speaker mount that made this process far more work than it should of been. The ML3 was to big to fit with an adapter plate onto this contraption so i decided to figure out a more basic solution. I did not want to cut any panels or plastic at all. 

What may not be obvious in my build is that although it looks extreme i can put the car back to 100% stock in about an hour or so. I bough wrecking yard front doors panels and a-pillars and i set the stock ones aside. I can remove all my fab work and gear and replace all the stock speakers and panels without any damage done or evidence of what was in the car.

So i need to figure out what i want to do as the ML3 speaker would hit the metal of the car as it stock out more than the stock speaker.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

So i decided to fabricate a shaped adapter out of MDF that i painted black. I would mount this adapter to the panel using deadening material to allow for a firm mount that is removable from the plastic. I maintained the stock grill and also friction mounted it. I could screw the ML3 to the MDF adapter, remove the stock speaker adapter. the rear fill speaker was mounted cable ran and the panel could be reinstalled back into the car over top of the deadened car panels. I also applied some sound deadening material to the trim panel. The MDF adapter was glued to the sound deadening material that was put on the trim panel so it is nice and sturdy. Another job completed, again nothing to fancy 😀


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And a minor update to the amp rack. Hole filled in and most of the filling and sanding completed including some primer work . I am hoping this week to get the amp rack painted in either SEM texture trim paint of bed liner. I am still not sure which i am going to use yet. I am thinking that with Bed liner i do not really need any more primer coats. I am not sure as i have never used that stuff before. I my do a test with the SEM textured trim just to see on a test panel. Just the bottom deck is shown here.

Any thoughts on what would work better and look better?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Certain days it feels like nothing is getting done, lol so i have taken the approach of treating this build like a marathon and not a sprint. A little bit here and a little bit there each week making some progress keeps the ball moving forward. I was not looking forward to the sound deadening effort but it is done at least up to the point i used up my material . The next tranche, next year will be to do the front half of the car floor and where ever else makes sense. the front doors are already completed so that is good news for me. I want to do the rear doors this year if i can as they definitely stand out now as a source of noise ingress 😲

I am undecided how i want to finish out my amp rack, so I need to spend some time figuring out the beauty panel layout and design. I may enlist some pro help with this part as i do not have the CNC tools, lasers and that type of stuff at my disposal. Everything has been my own DIY effort (blood, sweat and tears lol!!) so far so i need to think long and hard about that option as it would be a shame to no do the whole thing top to bottom. In the meantime i will most likely install temp panels to cover the amps and keep the rear hatch usable. Since my car is a true daily driver and does real chores and is used it needs to stay practical and clean and not be just a show car beauty princess build


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

You have been extremely industrious! Taking advantage of the weather conditions while you can  You have a wonderful design philosophy of being able to easily return to stock, and great execution. Good to have this trio us and unglamorous part behind you - it will certainly pay dividends in the future 


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

If you see yourself setting cargo on that amp rack, I would definitely go with a bed liner type material rather than just painting it.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> You have been extremely industrious! Taking advantage of the weather conditions while you can
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks bertholomey, you are definitely a source of encouragement and I definitely appreciate it !!! I figured if i spread out the crap work it will be less daunting and more manageable. And at the cost of materials today it is a necessity anyhow, lol!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> If you see yourself setting cargo on that amp rack, I would definitely go with a bed liner type material rather than just painting it.


This part of the amp rack will be totally covered in trim panels so it will not be seen unless the panels are removed. the trim panels will need to be a combination of durable and pretty which will be interesting. I am leaning to bed liner anyhow as i do like the durability factor and save the SEM trim paint when i refinish my front A-pillar pods is what i am thinking.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

My initial concept diagram hacked up in VISO to play around 🤓


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And a basic trim panel design i was thinking about. the idea was to create significant ventilation opportunities through the front and top of the trim panels while keeping it simple and purposeful. I am unsure about lighting as i find most of that stuff i seen done not to my taste at all but i am not ruling something out. The top amp grills would be made to match the ML8 grill look from the front of the car to tie in the look and have something understated and stands the test of time. the rest of the panel would be covered in black vinyl. I am undecided but I thought i would share out some ideas as that can be a great crucible to end up with something better overall. 

the verbiage panels would be done up to tie into the rack and may be lighted, not sure. They attach to the front of the rack on the vertical risers. Just spit balling some ideas and sharing where the amp rack is headed to. Nothing is finalized.

There should be no cables visible through the trim ( beauty) panels and everything should look pretty clean and modern. 

I am thinking with this amount of ventilation and in our colder climate up here that fans should not be needed however i could accommodate them in the future if i thought they where necessary


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I was thinking about incorporating the Helix and Brax logos however i am not sure i want to any more other than a small badge placed some place discretely.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

I like the Visio arrangement... I hope I don't come across as telling you what to do, but, when it comes to logos, equipment changes frequently so the idea of your screen name and slogan would stand up over time.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> I like the Visio arrangement... I hope I don't come across as telling you what to do, but, when it comes to logos, equipment changes frequently so the idea of your screen name and slogan would stand up over time.


thanks mumbles no problem at all feedback is welcomed and i totally agree that is one reason i pulled them off the rack. 

Although at the cost of the new gear i will not be changing anytime soon. I tend not to equipment flip in general lol!!


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

AudioGal said:


> thanks mumbles no problem at all feedback is welcomed and i totally agree that is one reason i pulled them off the rack.
> 
> Although at the cost of the new gear i will not be changing anytime soon. I tend not to equipment flip in general lol!!


True, not many upgrade paths from what you have!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> True, not many upgrade paths from what you have!


I have been in home audio (decades really) long enough to realize that better does not necessarily exist at some point and it comes down to chocolate or vanilla, or purple over orange. Pick your paint color or favorite flavor you like and go with it and feel no guilt 🤪 😎


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay a big milestone is completed. The basic rack is painted SEM trim paint, the hinges and pneumatic lifts are installed and it all works perfectly so far. The rack is ready to be installed in the car tomorrow hopefully !Closed cell
foam has been installed on all
mating surfaces and on the bottom of the bottom rack. 

Once installed ii can proceed on doing some sort of cover panels and get the gear back installed.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

AudioGal said:


> Okay a big milestone is completed. The basic rack is painted SEM trim paint, the hinges and pneumatic lifts are installed and it all works perfectly so far. The rack is ready to be installed in the car tomorrow hopefully! Closed cell
> foam has been installed on all mating surfaces and on the bottom of the bottom rack.
> 
> Once installed i can proceed on doing some sort of cover panels and get the gear back installed.


Looks great!  How many rattle cans of SEM for that?


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Thanks, to many , lol. 4 cans and mostly because this was my first time using the stuff. To do it again 3 would be sufficient.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

i spent an inordinate amount of time filling, prepping , priming and sanding so that helped a lot 🤪


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

AudioGal said:


> Thanks, too many, lol. 4 cans and mostly because this was my first time using the stuff. To do it again 3 would be sufficient.
> 
> i spent an inordinate amount of time filling, prepping, priming and sanding so that helped a lot 🤪


That's what I figured, haha. It takes a good bit of paint for full, even coverage on BB or MDF with a rattle can! But your time and effort paid off IMO.   

Cheers


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Billy is right…….that does look fantastic! It will look even better in the car. Well done!!!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> i spent an inordinate amount of time filling, prepping , priming and sanding so that helped a lot


All of that effort pays off - I don’t have much patience for it…..the phrase, ‘good enough’ always gets stuck in my mind…..sometimes my wife has to touch up after me  

She put a last coat of paint on one side of these yesterday - that is about 1/2 of the doors - lots of sanding, primer, paint. 











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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Is it in yet🤣🤣🤣😆?

Amp rack looking great, cant wait to see it finished!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> All of that effort pays off - I don’t have much patience for it…..the phrase, ‘good enough’ always gets stuck in my mind…..sometimes my wife has to touch up after me
> 
> She put a last coat of paint on one side of these yesterday - that is about 1/2 of the doors - lots of sanding, primer, paint.
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh you just gave me nightmares !!! 

Looks awesome though and something i have wanted to do to my kitchen at some point.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

LBaudio said:


> Is it in yet🤣🤣🤣😆?
> 
> Amp rack looking great, cant wait to see it finished!


Lol, i did put it in that night, could not wait 😲

After installing and fiddling a bit i came to the unfortunate conclusion that i did not like the SEM texture coat for this purpose. So like the ding dong I am i pulled the rack and I am doing it in bed liner. Easily available here ( EZ liner) . First application coats went very well and look so much better and will be significantly more durable. I figured i should do it how i want and burn some more $dollars$ , yuk and more yuk, and finish it how i want it done. Since this is my only project I am okay with it taking some time, learning and building more skills, but the cost these days is atrocious to say the least. What is that Einstein quote , except replace physicist with car audio hobbyist , 🤓🤪

So more sanding and painting and the night mare continues


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Nothing says you can't retroactively declare the SEM as a fully planned primer coat for the bed liner...


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

hella356 said:


> Nothing says you can't retroactively declare the SEM as a fully planned primer coat for the bed liner...


True that is an option, lol


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> All of that effort pays off - I don’t have much patience for it…..the phrase, ‘good enough’ always gets stuck in my mind…..sometimes my wife has to touch up after me
> 
> She put a last coat of paint on one side of these yesterday - that is about 1/2 of the doors - lots of sanding, primer, paint.


J, the cabinet doors and drawer fronts look great! 

A few years ago my mom asked me about doing this for the kitchen cabinets in our family vacation home. We built the place in 1999 and it was time for a refresh/update. It's a fairly large kitchen, big island with bar counter, etc.

At the time, I had fairly recently refinished 3 of the natural wood-stained & glass-pane French doors for the house, and that alone was a chore.

I pondered the kitchen cabinet refinishing for about *2ms* before telling her that I would pay for it to be done professionally, haha!  It wasn't cheap  but I've "been there/done that" a few times before and don't have the patience for it anymore unless it's a car audio or other project that I'm 110% enthusiastic about. 😊

So kudos to you J and V for taking that on!!! 

@AudioGal I feel your pain in regards to the price of paint, sandpaper, screws, wood glue, hardware, and basic supplies in general...EVERYTHING has gone WAY up in price. And I'd imagine it's probably even a fair bit more in "Canadia". 

I recently added another 4'x8' custom overhead rolling platform shelf to my shipping container to gain some additional storage that I use for extra shop equipment and seasonal items. I had built and installed 2 of the overhead shelves a few years back when I initially got the shipping container, and I planed to add up to two more as needed. The 4' x 8' overhead platform shelves all roll independently on horizontal tracks/rails that are bolted to and run the full length of the long interior side walls of the container. Even when fully loaded I can push and roll the shelves with one hand to a position that's easier to gain access to from either side.

But this new shelf easily cost me *4x* *more* to build due to the cost of 3/4" BB, 1/4" hardboard, screws, glue, paint, and other hardware, compared to the first two platform shelves I had built. 

Sorry for the slight derail, but all to say I CAN & DO APPRECIATE the time, effort, and expense that is going into your car audio upgrades. 👍


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

@bbfoto thanks and no derail, all good here! Sharing in the pain is somehow comforting, lol. And I second and third you on the cabinet refinishing job comments, top kudos to J and V for taking this task on 

It is interesting, and you bring up a good point about if the work effort is for a hobby we somehow can justify it. I seem to be that way. I cannot build to perfection but if there is something that i do not like or I feel i can do it better i will usually redo it, apparently my labor hours are considered free somehow, lol

The repainting job has allowed me to rethink some things which is a bonus


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

AudioGal said:


> @bbfoto thanks and no derail, all good here! Sharing in the pain is somehow comforting, lol. And I second and third you on the cabinet refinishing job comments, top kudos to J and V for taking this task on
> 
> It is interesting, and you bring up a good point about if the work effort is for a hobby we somehow can justify it. I seem to be that way. I cannot build to perfection but if there is something that i do not like or I feel i can do it better i will usually redo it, apparently my labor hours are considered free somehow, lol
> 
> The repainting job has allowed me to rethink some things which is a bonus


Fo' Sure! Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, and we will _always_ _find_ _something_ that can be improved once the finished product is before us and we have time to interact with it, and step back to see it in its complete state. I guess we should count our blessings that we at least have the choice of our own labor being free, LOL. For me, if it's a creative process that I'm enthusiastic about, it's not really _work,_ and it can be therapeutic as well. If you love your work...

Keep on keeping on...


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Well the repaint is done and i also put on some temporary top covers. I am rethinking what i want to do for the top covers all over again now that i have these completed, lol!!

Either way, i am super happy that i went back to the drawing board and repainted the amp rack in ez liner covering. It is the exact texture i was hoping for plus is appears to be super durable and the amp rack looks much better. Sort of clean, modern and stealthy 

Now i can finally get on with assembly . I am hoping to get them in the car today 😎


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I figured i would try a mock-up run before i put the rack back into the car. To make sure i had the cable holes sorted and everything was going to fit the way i wanted. So far so good. I need to pick up some latches so i can secure the lifting shelf to the main shelf and then after they are installed i can start to work on the in-rack installation. My last build project is going to be centered around a GND distro bar and a 12v fuse bar suited to my needs. Hopefully that turns out to what i see in my head, lol!

This should be my last set of pic's for a while now so i will stop spamming my thread with what must seem like repeating pic's. However i wanted to show the journey mistakes, changes and all.

The more i think about it i should be able to wire the whole rack out side of the car and with the help of my son to lift it into the car when it is done, may be the best option and save my back in the process 😁


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Does anybody have a suggestion for LED lights and controller? I am thinking a set of addressable LED light strips that i can run separate colors in different sections of the rack. I am just noodling some ideas at the moment.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I've done more than a bit of research into this, and it looks like the favourite among pro installers/makers of custom lighting is the Blueghozt controller from Ghozt industries. Control for this is app-based with fully configurable custom programs/setups. So very easy to set up compared to the arduino-based ones where you have to write code to program the lights. 

I have one of these that I haven't installed yet. 

But I also ordered a pack of adressable rgb light bars, and with them came a tiny controller module. This was actually very good, it can do all sorts of programs, and also fully configurable ones, down to the number of individual leds and how many zones you want to divide it into. Really impressed with this considering that its a $10 controller. The Blueghozt is 15x that price. 

This is it: 6.92US $ 38% OFF|Dc5v Ws2812 Led Aluminum Rigid Bar Cabinet Light 28keys Bluetooth Music Rgb Smart Pixels Controller With Mic Decoration 50/33cm - Led Strip - AliExpress

Well worth a try. Also the light bars/strips in this set works well. I think a 10-pack of the 50cm ones including controller was like $30 in total.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

haakono said:


> I've done more than a bit of research into this, and it looks like the favourite among pro installers/makers of custom lighting is the Blueghozt controller from Ghozt industries. Control for this is app-based with fully configurable custom programs/setups. So very easy to set up compared to the arduino-based ones where you have to write code to program the lights.
> 
> I have one of these that I haven't installed yet.
> 
> ...


excellent thank you so much haakono, I really appreciate it !!! I am going to check it out for sure the one in the link!!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

@AudioGal 

have you a car pc ? Is that what I was reading

this thing with linear phase firs would be flat out amazing

you should get a convolution engine of some kind , even an OpenDrc (which is no small machine)

I think it’s right up your alley! And you would really appreciate tuning linear phase

it really opens things up and removes a lot of problems that otherwise can’t be dealt with


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> @AudioGal
> 
> have you a car pc ? Is that what I was reading
> 
> ...


Interesting no car PC, but a stand alone music server and BT HD as well for non focused listening and kiddo tunes!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Okay some more progress on the system. I have built up my power distribution and ground distribution system. I have enough capacity to handle anything i want now. I will be putting a acrylic top across the whole power management section of the amp rack system. I had fun building these for some reason, lol! 

I may buy a big buffing wheel for my drill and spend some time buffing out the copper at some point. for now I am happy with the results.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And i did some amp mounting and wiring on the weekend. I got to the point i needed the power distribution system so i had to stop and build that part. Now that i have that part done i can finish wiring out the rack before i install it in the car. I am pretty happy with how everything is coming together especially once i got past the painting / texture part of the build, lol!!


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Getting serious with those copper buss bars! This whole project is really turning out great, nice work!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

mumbles said:


> Getting serious with those copper buss bars! This whole project is really turning out great, nice work!


Thanks Mumbles , i became fed up looking for pwr and gnd solutions i liked so… i rolled up
my sleeves and ha a go at it!!

Many firsts for me in this whole build in general 😁


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> Interesting no car PC, but a stand alone music server and BT HD as well for non focused listening and kiddo tunes!


use a OpenDrc
It’s toslink/coax in and out and capable of 6144 taps
And it’s FFT convolution! And it’s floating point! And you can run at 96K

No pc needed !


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

That wiring work already looks ‘Bingish’  Really fantastic to be able to meticulously wire outside the vehicle then stick the entire package in the car. 

You have certainly proved the adage ‘necessity is the mother of invention’ - what you have in mind as the best solution isn’t always something that can be ordered off Amazon - what i find continually impressive is that you are willing to push your boundaries and you have the capability to execute. Well done! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> That wiring work already looks ‘Bingish’  Really fantastic to be able to meticulously wire outside the vehicle then stick the entire package in the car.
> 
> You have certainly proved the adage ‘necessity is the mother of invention’ - what you have in mind as the best solution isn’t always something that can be ordered off Amazon - what i find continually impressive is that you are willing to push your boundaries and you have the capability to execute. Well done!
> 
> ...


Thank you, I am planning on adding a bit more bling at some point (effect lighting) but that may have to wait until next year which i am fine with. Always nice to have a project on the books!! Even once the rack is installed , all it will take is disconnect of the 1/0 cables, DSP to conductor (or director) and speaker cables and the whole thing will come out again no problem.

There is a saying that you can take the girl away from the farm but you can not take the farm out of the girl and i guess it is true!! Growing up on the farm and doing everything i could including working on equipment with my dad has rubbed off i guess, lol!

Wiring outside the car is a dream, and i love it. I lucked out on this build in that regard 

Taking my time has been a positive outcome on this one for me. As it has allowed me to try some new things and ideas and i have been able to iterate my thoughts and redo things if i did not like the outcome the first or second time. I did not always rush before but i had a different attitude and mental pace previously. I do not have a hard deadline to be done by and i am just enjoying the process and build overall so i am in no hurry and this is a shift for me. Always a life lesson to be had 😂


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> use a OpenDrc
> It’s toslink/coax in and out and capable of 6144 taps
> And it’s FFT convolution! And it’s floating point! And you can run at 96K
> 
> No pc needed !


Hmm maybe as a winter project i will look into this stuff in more detail! Always willing to keep pushing forward 🤓


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

AudioGal said:


> There is a saying that you can take the girl away from the farm but you can not take the farm out of the girl and i guess it is true!! Growing up on the farm and doing everything i could including working on equipment with my dad has rubbed off i guess, lol!


You sound like my wife who also grew up on a farm... We play well off each other, I rely on her for common sense and she relies on me for technical stuff!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

AudioGal said:


> Hmm maybe as a winter project i will look into this stuff in more detail! Always willing to keep pushing forward 🤓


yeah you’ve come a long way really really fast
your measurement rig speaks volumes, I really do think you would have fun with it.

and you have all the right tools to measure things properly and make a good sounding correction.

it’s right up your alley


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

AudioGal said:


> Okay, I am now playing with the proper version of the rack. All amplifiers have been accrued.
> 
> Brax 2400 - Left side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the left sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
> Brax 2400 - Right side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the right sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
> ...


Hello,

Do you know how much amperage drawn in medium to loud volume of one of your GX2400?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

TonyUsa said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do you know how much amperage drawn in medium to loud volume of one of your GX2400?


That depends on what driver they are running and program material, tweeters will be different to midbass for example, on medium volume I’d expect less than 60A with normal music, so maybe 20a each I’d guess


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Not sure, but I think even Idle current is pretty high - 8,5A in case of MX4, while it is 3,5A with GX line


----------



## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

dumdum said:


> That depends on what driver they are running and program material, tweeters will be different to midbass for example, on medium volume I’d expect less than 60A with normal music, so maybe 20a each I’d guess


Thank you. I just want to know roughly estimate, since she is running one GX2400 for high, mid, and midbass. The number should be very close to mine. I changed my set up from running 3 Mosconi 2/10 for high, mid, and midbass to one GX2400 for high and mid. One GX2000 for midbass. Just found out the idea current of GX2400 is 3.5A last week, it is very high compare to Mosconi 2/10 and I just worry that if my electric car can take it.


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

LBaudio said:


> Not sure, but I think even Idle current is pretty high - 8,5A in case of MX4, while it is 3,5A with GX line


Thank you. Yes, I found out those idle number last week and just worry if my EV can take it. Thanks god I didn't pull the trigger on MX4.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

TonyUsa said:


> Thank you. I just want to know roughly estimate, since she is running one GX2400 for high, mid, and midbass. The number should be very close to mine. I changed my set up from running 3 Mosconi 2/10 for high, mid, and midbass to one GX2400 for high and mid. One GX2000 for midbass. Just found out the idea current of GX2400 is 3.5A last week, it is very high compare to Mosconi 2/10 and I just worry that if my electric car can take it.


I’d be using something like a helix p6dsp ultimate if I had an electric car, class d isn’t the devil and it does sound excellent with modern amp tech and design… I wouldn’t even entertain class ab in an electric car

but to give you an idea I run a mosconi amp setup… AS200.2 on subs at 2ohm bridged, plus a pair of pro 4/10, I can play most music off a 20a power supply at medium volumes and get no voltage drop… if I up the volume and get enthusiastic I can get voltage drop at my battery and draw more than 20a… but 20a is great for most music


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

TonyUsa said:


> Thank you. Yes, I found out those idle number last week and just worry if my EV can take it. Thanks god I didn't pull the trigger on MX4.


A few friends of mine run 2 x MX4 from more or less original electrical system (original alternators/big three/and a bit more capable battery)without any issues in their SQ systems


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

LBaudio said:


> A few friends of mine run 2 x MX4 from more or less original electrical system (original alternators/big three/and a bit more capable battery)without any issues in their SQ systems


Thank you. Mine is electric car is a bit different from gas.


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

dumdum said:


> I’d be using something like a helix p6dsp ultimate if I had an electric car, class d isn’t the devil and it does sound excellent with modern amp tech and design… I wouldn’t even entertain class ab in an electric car
> 
> but to give you an idea I run a mosconi amp setup… AS200.2 on subs at 2ohm bridged, plus a pair of pro 4/10, I can play most music off a 20a power supply at medium volumes and get no voltage drop… if I up the volume and get enthusiastic I can get voltage drop at my battery and draw more than 20a… but 20a is great for most music


Thank you.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I have not measured this system yet, however i would add that although it may seem i am running a 3-way with mid-bass i am more or less running a 2 way with door subs that go down to mid 35hz range so that changes the calculus.

The Brax line is a significant step above Class D amps in SQ so depending what your priories are, that drives things. The GX 2400 is a high bias class AB design so the idle current is higher for sure and the MX is biased even higher, In an electric car i have not spent any time on the math of what percentage of battery would be consumed by a Brax amp install compared to the car capacity and range reduction. In a commuter car it may not matter as the trips are short and the car sits charging most of the time, but in a car used for highway driving it may really matter i do not know.

I do think the type of music you listen to will be a determining factor. If you listen to acoustic music, and music with real instruments the current draw will be far less than EDM, techno, electronic and other tech synth music with exaggerated low end which will drive up the current a lot. That being said a reasonable compromise is class AB for the front stage, cross the MB at 80hz or a little higher and run the sub stage at class D where the bulk of the current draw is anyhow. If i had an electric and i was going to do a serious SQ build i would entertain this option highly. The electric for me would be a commuter car only. To use an electric to drive outside of the city where i live , while it can be done is highly impractical due to distances and total lack of infrastructure and the seriously cold temps in the winter.


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## saltyone (Feb 2, 2019)

AudioGal said:


> I thought i would post an unlikely improvement i installed for my enjoyment of music in my car. The Venza seemed really susceptible to wind noise through the front of the side windows. I tried everything. The doors are fully deadend and sealed, I installed extra weather stripping around the door edges. This past week I tried something different and I installed wind deflectors on all my windows. The benefit has been wonderfully positive and the side wind window ingress noise has been significantly reduced and basically eliminated. What was driving me nuts for over a year has been fixed once and for all. Maybe other cars have similar issues and this may help out. To say I am super impressed with the results would be an understatement 😀
> 
> View attachment 339237
> 
> ...



Wind deflectors is a hack I learned years ago to cut way down on highway wind noise. I've added these to every vehicle I've owned since and it always makes a significant difference.


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## saltyone (Feb 2, 2019)

AudioGal said:


> Okay, I am now playing with the proper version of the rack. All amplifiers have been accrued.
> 
> Brax 2400 - Left side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the left sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
> Brax 2400 - Right side of car mid and tweet. I am going to run the right sub on DVC using two separate channels at 2 ohms each.
> ...


If I won the lottery, I wouldn't tell anyone, but there would be signs... 😂 

Amazing build log AudioGal! Thank you for allowing us to live vicariously through you!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

saltyone said:


> Wind deflectors is a hack I learned years ago to cut way down on highway wind noise. I've added these to every vehicle I've owned since and it always makes a significant difference.


lol i cannot believe it took me so long to try wind deflectors out, tbh, however i am glad i did thats for sure


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

AudioGal said:


> I have not measured this system yet, however i would add that although it may seem i am running a 3-way with mid-bass i am more or less running a 2 way with door subs that go down to mid 35hz range so that changes the calculus.
> 
> The Brax line is a significant step above Class D amps in SQ so depending what your priories are, that drives things. The GX 2400 is a high bias class AB design so the idle current is higher for sure and the MX is biased even higher, In an electric car i have not spent any time on the math of what percentage of battery would be consumed by a Brax amp install compared to the car capacity and range reduction. In a commuter car it may not matter as the trips are short and the car sits charging most of the time, but in a car used for highway driving it may really matter i do not know.
> 
> I do think the type of music you listen to will be a determining factor. If you listen to acoustic music, and music with real instruments the current draw will be far less than EDM, techno, electronic and other tech synth music with exaggerated low end which will drive up the current a lot. That being said a reasonable compromise is class AB for the front stage, cross the MB at 80hz or a little higher and run the sub stage at class D where the bulk of the current draw is anyhow. If i had an electric and i was going to do a serious SQ build i would entertain this option highly. The electric for me would be a commuter car only. To use an electric to drive outside of the city where i live , while it can be done is highly impractical due to distances and total lack of infrastructure and the seriously cold temps in the winter.


Thank you. Yes, I will be running GX2400 and GX2000 for front stage high, mid, and midbass and two Mosconi 1/10 class D for two 12" sub.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

TonyUsa said:


> Thank you. Yes, I will be running GX2400 and GX2000 for front stage high, mid, and midbass and two Mosconi 1/10 class D for two 12" sub.


Very nice!!! The Brax amps are awesome and designed like high-end home audio amps to extract max musical enjoyment. A very worth while upgrade in my system for what i am after, and i hope you get the same level of enjoyment out of them as i do. They are most likely overkill for car audio but who cares, lol!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

saltyone said:


> If I won the lottery, I wouldn't tell anyone, but there would be signs... 😂
> 
> Amazing build log AudioGal! Thank you for allowing us to live vicariously through you!


lol, thanks , and ya i am stupid territory now, no doubt about it!!!


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

AudioGal said:


> Very nice!!! The Brax amps are awesome and designed like high-end home audio amps to extract max musical enjoyment. A very worth while upgrade in my system for what i am after, and i hope you get the same level of enjoyment out of them as i do. They are most likely overkill for car audio but who cares, lol!


Thank you.


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## Irishklover (Nov 8, 2020)

Is the trunk done ? Can we see some pics ? Your doing a great job . I love my venza.


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## saltyone (Feb 2, 2019)

The only site on the web where a guy can ask a lady for pics of her trunk and there not be anything uncouth about it. 😁


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## Irishklover (Nov 8, 2020)

True .


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Irishklover said:


> Is the tunk done ? Can we see some pics ? Your doing a great job . I love my venza.


Nope not yet. I got hung up with COVID late summer and a few other things so i did not get a chance to finish it to where i want it. However what i have done i really like overall


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

It seems i do have a few more pic's to share if people are somewhat interested.

The following pics detail the sound deadening in the hatch area that i did. Nothing fancy just straight up as much coverage as i could while the area was exposed.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

the next series of pictures is the installation of the rear-fill speakers, Brax ML3. I had these speakers already so I figured I may as well just use them  the panels where deadened more than the pics show and installed in the car.

I needed to fabricate up a simple adapter plate that i could attach to the panel in a non destructive manner. I could not use the VENZA mount since it was designed for a smaller speaker. I am fine with this as rear-fill in my use-case is for a diffuse sound field effect so pointing into the rear cabin instead of directly at the front in fine and most likely preferable anyhow. My rear-fill is set up as center channel minus left and center channel minus right using the virtual; channels architecture of the Ultra. The Helix c-fore is driving rear-fill , yes it is stupid overkill but i already have it so......... 😁.


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## saltyone (Feb 2, 2019)

The name of this build should be "Stupid Overkill".  That would look cool across the front windshield. 😂


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

I fully wired my rack and tested the system inside with a 12v supply before i installed it in my car. I tried to take as much care as i could routing cables and creating separation between power and signal cables. For the short runs to the fuse center i ran 4 gauge and i am running 1/0 to the fuse bars in the car. I am really appreciating the accessibility to the Brax amps. I am going to design a top acrylic plate for the fuse center ( power distribution section). The box beside the fuse center is a 12v battery saver device. I run this to the relay power for the 12v trigger for the system. If the battery drops below my threshold voltage setting the system turns off so i will never drain my battery accidently. It works great. Every single piece of gear and electronic piece has is ts own fuse and ground connection to the bus bars. The lowered noise floor is noticeable over my previous build. 

The Wi-Fi router is the router i am using in my car to run the music server side of things and allow for connection to my LTE router (not shown) for cell access ( streaming and internet) on my iPad source and other devices in the car.

Overkill again i suppose but what isn't in the build, lol!!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And the back of the rack, showing the 12v remote key fob trigger device allowing me to turn on the system without a key to the car. The 12v DC-DC power supply running 12v to the Innuos music streamer. And a mini buss bar in a box with a lid ( not shown) that connects the ancillary equipment and routers to the main bus bar system. All of this is attached to the back of the rack. Realistically this stuff never gets seen, however i do have easy access to it when i need to have access. 

I am no pro-builder, just muddling my way through and enjoying the process and learnings.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

And the basic wired rack in the car and hooked up. I do not have better pictures at this point. I will take some and post later today. with the seats up and the system powered up. The top panels are not the end solution for beauty panels they are my i got this far and i will finish the rest once i figure out a sub solution and i can integrate and make all nice , well to my abilities anyhow.. lol!!

The Brax amps sound amazing, it is nice to have rear-fill back, the c-four is stupid overkill and the c-one is idle for the moment. The 12v is on for the above pic's, but i removed the 12v trigger line in the car till i get a sub system installed next year sometime. I am in no rush just putzing away. So this is where i ended up and then i got COVID again and now it is winter yuck!!!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

That is a TON of progress! It looks fantastic - so much tech involved - so very cool! 

Great Job!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> That is a TON of progress! It looks fantastic - so much tech involved - so very cool!
> 
> Great Job!!!
> 
> ...


Thank you, i appreciate the positive feedback


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## Irishklover (Nov 8, 2020)

Damm that all looks amazing! Great job . 👍🏻


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Irishklover said:


> Damm that all looks amazing! Great job . 👍🏻


Thank you sir, i am a trying, lol!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Well, I am over the moon as the "Brax Ferry" has delivered a special package for me today. I am going to hook it up in my home system first while the weather sucks and then when the weather decides to smarten up i will put this amazing piece of audio jewelry in my car 

If i get ambitious i will try to compare to my Ultra in the home rig and see where the SQ chips fall, lol!! Either-way i am totally stoked and i was to excited to not share.

And Pepper photo bombed the shot!


😎


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Well, I am over the moon as the "Brax Ferry" has delivered a special package for me today. I am going to hook it up in my home system first while the weather sucks and then when the weather decides to smarten up i will put this amazing piece of audio jewelry in my car
> 
> If i get ambitious i will try to compare to my Ultra in the home rig and see where the SQ chips fall, lol!! Either-way i am totally stoked and i was to excited to not share.
> 
> ...


Wow! Good on ya! That Brax Ferry has been busy! Well played!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Nice! Can't wait to hear it!


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

Amazing! What wire gauge are you planing to run on +,-, and turn on? I was planing to run 16 gauge but not sure if it is good enough for + and -.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

TonyUsa said:


> Amazing! What wire gauge are you planing to run on +,-, and turn on? I was planing to run 16 gauge but not sure if it is good enough for + and -.


Not to steal @AudioGal 's thunder... but 16awg is perfect.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

Very cool! Also, cute dog.


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## TonyUsa (8 mo ago)

JimmyDee said:


> Not to steal @AudioGal 's thunder... but 16awg is perfect.


Thank you, Jim.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

JimmyDee said:


> Not to steal @AudioGal 's thunder... but 16awg is perfect.


 Agreed Jim, thanks for helping out!


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

This screen is super cool. it allows for he setting of different digital reconstruction filters for each paired output. Something typically seen in home audio dac's. The sampling rate can also be chosen. This thing is setup as a pure audiophile piece which is awesome.

Ii now have it connected to my home rig working as a dac via coax from my Innuos and analog outs to my preamp. I have set nothing else other than channel routing and playing with the digital reconstruction filters. 

So far the sound is definitely making a positive impression in comparison to my home dac.

But this level of input and output configuration is amazing.


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

Here is a good link to explain the different filter settings. There may be better ones out there but this one keeps it high level.









How to pick the best filter setting for your DAC


Does your DAC let you choose the output filter? What do they do. How do the different kinds differ from each one? Which is the best? Which is the worst? We'll help you sort it out.




addictedtoaudio.com.au


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

AudioGal said:


> Here is a good link to explain the different filter settings. There may be better ones out there but this one keeps it high level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for this article - I just started it, but I can tell it will be a great resource to review (likely a few times). I have such a shallow understanding of these things......I just picked up a Denafrips Pontus II DAC for the 2 channel. It was interesting that one reviewer raved about the NOS setting.....another raved about the OS with Fast setting.......my first day or two with the DAC, switching around, I didn't hear a huge difference, but maybe a little knowledge will change that......or, maybe it won't  It could be that I don't have the most discerning ears to be able to hear the subtleties. 

Anyway, I'm stoked that you have a whole new level of fun to explore - and super cool that you can do a lot of that in the home rig before you ever get it to the car. I would submit that it is much more 'comfortable' to do that learning on the couch vs in the driver's seat in the garage in the middle of a Canadian winter


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## AudioGal (Oct 16, 2019)

bertholomey said:


> Thank you very much for this article - I just started it, but I can tell it will be a great resource to review (likely a few times). I have such a shallow understanding of these things......I just picked up a Denafrips Pontus II DAC for the 2 channel. It was interesting that one reviewer raved about the NOS setting.....another raved about the OS with Fast setting.......my first day or two with the DAC, switching around, I didn't hear a huge difference, but maybe a little knowledge will change that......or, maybe it won't  It could be that I don't have the most discerning ears to be able to hear the subtleties.
> 
> Anyway, I'm stoked that you have a whole new level of fun to explore - and super cool that you can do a lot of that in the home rig before you ever get it to the car. I would submit that it is much more 'comfortable' to do that learning on the couch vs in the driver's seat in the garage in the middle of a Canadian winter


Pontus , awesome, thats wonderful!! You will have a great time listening to that dac!!

i find the choice of music may bring out different filter characteristic sounds. Fun to play with! I am glad you like the article 😀

This Brax might not leave my house 😂, it is simply superb. It seems on average to good for car audio, 🤔


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