# Help With Sub Box Design Plz??



## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

I know there's tons of research & threads on this but I still cant get my answers to my questions.

- First is figuring out how much cubic air space I need for a ported enclosure for a Pioneer Premier TS-W3004SPL single 12" sub keeping it mostly for an 80% to 20% split of SPL vs. SQ??

- Second is box design as i'm really liking this box a lot: 
1)  Sonic Sub Boxes 1SA12-GRAY Single 12" Airport MDF Enclosure where the sub is centered with dual 4" flared ports on each side & uses a massive 2.8 cubic air space. The second is this one:
2) Atrend 12LSVDD 12" Digital Designs Single Vented Custom Subwoofer Box which has 2.1 cubic air space, but I would change up the port design.

- I will be building these myself but I put those 2 up for prime examples plus I have no idea how long I want the ports to be as I'm still clueless as to how a 35Hz tuned box would sound over a 50Hz sound. I do know that Pioneer came out with a sub box ment to compliment the W3004SPL sub, but we all know that our trunks are different shapes & we all have different Hz levels to achieve!

- Here's a couple manufacturing sites that may lay help for specs as there too small for me to read:
3) TS-W3004SPL - Premier® 12" SPL Component Subwoofer with 3000 Watts Max. Power | Pioneer Electronics USA and: 
4) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/217888139TRD1263-A_UC.pdf

Thank u for reading & I look forward to ur replies!!


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

the PDF said 1.65 cu ft ported with a 3" port, 6.5" long


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

miniSQ said:


> the PDF said 1.65 cu ft ported with a 3" port, 6.5" long


Really? I would think a 1000rms sub would need a bigger box say around 2.0 cubic feet minimum. 

As for the port length, is that 6.5" tuned to say 35Hz or is it just the manufacturer recommendations as well as the 1.65 cubic feet????

Also, for someone wanting an 80/20 split of SPL/SQ, what should I tune the port to??


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

SeniorXJ said:


> Really? I would think a 1000rms sub would need a bigger box say around 2.0 cubic feet minimum.
> 
> As for the port length, is that 6.5" tuned to say 35Hz or is it just the manufacturer recommendations as well as the 1.65 cubic feet????
> 
> Also, for someone wanting an 80/20 split of SPL/SQ, what should I tune the port to??


that was optimum size...you can build a bigger box ...max suggested was 2.06 ported...3" port 5" long. I don't know what the tuning is on that. But tuning is not driver dependant, you can go to any box calculator site and choose a port tuning.


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

miniSQ said:


> that was optimum size...you can build a bigger box ...max suggested was 2.06 ported...3" port 5" long. I don't know what the tuning is on that. But tuning is not driver dependant, you can go to any box calculator site and choose a port tuning.


So 2.06 cubic feet it is. What I ment by port size is that im questioning how far down I wanna tune the box & since ive never used this strategy, im also asking what the differences are between a 35Hz box & a 50Hz box??

What about dual 4" ports just like this box has (which is the exact style I like):









Also I wanna use bolts for the sub terminals & want to know what bolt would conduct the best?? A copper bolt id assume?? Pics:


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Subwoofer Enclosure Calculators, Fraction to Decimal, Parallel, Series, Port Length and Volume Calculators

3" port on that box 5" long shows a tuning of 36hz...which sounds about right a single 12.

going to a single 4" port at the same freq requires a 10" long port, which could be hard in a 2 cu ft box.

now going to dual 4" ports like you are hoping to get to would make they much longer....i guess you could make one port a dummy port if you are looking for that exact look.

as for tuning at 50 vs 36...that is just not something you want to consider, a ported box tuned to 50 hz would mean that all musi below 50 hz would umload the driver and damage it, so you would need to filter out all music below the tuning freq...kind of self defeating don't you think?

even at a tuning of 36hz you need to filter out all music beow that tuning freq with a subsonic filter...does your amp have a subsonic filter?


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

miniSQ said:


> Subwoofer Enclosure Calculators, Fraction to Decimal, Parallel, Series, Port Length and Volume Calculators
> 
> 3" port on that box 5" long shows a tuning of 36hz...which sounds about right a single 12.
> 
> ...



So should I tune it down to 30Hz since this sub is known for hitting those low notes, or is this amp & sub dependant?

Well right now I have a 4ch amp that will power it till I get a real amp & i'm almost set on this one & wiring the 4ohm sub to 2ohms:
Precision Power PPI BK1800.1D (BK18001D) 1800W RMS Mono Class D Black Ice Car Amp


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

If you tune to 30Hz, it should be because you are going to play rap/hip-hop/whatever that actually goes that low. For most regular music, tuning to the mid-upper 30s is fine. Also you can't arbitrarily rely on port tuning to create a "split" for SPL and SQ. There's a lot more to sound quality than just tuning low. An enclosure/tuning cannot fix an otherwise inferior speaker. As far as ports/port area, go for as much port area as you can fit within the standard guidelines for port placement, as far as the port openings within the enclosure are concerned. 

To decide on port tuning, ideally you should be well versed in modeling enclosures and know what those particular frequencies sound like. If you don't, you need to look online at sine wave generators and play them on your computer or whatever, hooked up to a known subwoofer that can extend as low as the frequencies you are going to test. This way you can know how low you want your subwoofer to go. Play start with 50hz and play lower and lower frequencies and then you can decide if you need that kind of low-frequency reproduction in your vehicle. Remember, you need to take both enclosure volume AND port tuning into account. This is why learning how to use a simple program like WinISD is invaluable.

In the end, I would not be relying on a measly 3" diameter port for a 12" driver, no matter what the tuning is. Bare minimum would be two 4" ports, or the equivalent area in a slot port. My JBL W10GTi is in a 1.75 ft³ box tuned to 32 Hz, with a massive 12"x3" port, about 30" long or so. No port noise what so ever and sounds awesome.


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Oscar said:


> If you tune to 30Hz, it should be because you are going to play rap/hip-hop/whatever that actually goes that low. For most regular music, tuning to the mid-upper 30s is fine. Also you can't arbitrarily rely on port tuning to create a "split" for SPL and SQ. There's a lot more to sound quality than just tuning low. An enclosure/tuning cannot fix an otherwise inferior speaker. As far as ports/port area, go for as much port area as you can fit within the standard guidelines for port placement, as far as the port openings within the enclosure are concerned.
> 
> To decide on port tuning, ideally you should be well versed in modeling enclosures and know what those particular frequencies sound like. If you don't, you need to look online at sine wave generators and play them on your computer or whatever, hooked up to a known subwoofer that can extend as low as the frequencies you are going to test. This way you can know how low you want your subwoofer to go. Play start with 50hz and play lower and lower frequencies and then you can decide if you need that kind of low-frequency reproduction in your vehicle. Remember, you need to take both enclosure volume AND port tuning into account. This is why learning how to use a simple program like WinISD is invaluable.
> 
> In the end, I would not be relying on a measly 3" diameter port for a 12" driver, no matter what the tuning is. Bare minimum would be two 4" ports, or the equivalent area in a slot port. My JBL W10GTi is in a 1.75 ft³ box tuned to 32 Hz, with a massive 12"x3" port, about 30" long or so. No port noise what so ever and sounds awesome.



Yeah that was more like a what if question as I think tuning it to 35Hz should be ideal.

I also agree on ur port measurements as the more air that's moved the better!! I was already gonna do a 4" port but the question put in my head by the other guy was if i should do two 4" ports. The ports will be flared at both ends & I know the length is what determine the Hz level.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

SeniorXJ said:


> Yeah that was more like a what if question as I think tuning it to 35Hz should be ideal.
> 
> I also agree on ur port measurements as the more air that's moved the better!! I was already gonna do a 4" port but the question put in my head by the other guy was if i should do two 4" ports. The ports will be flared at both ends & I know the length is what determine the Hz level.


once you decide on the port area, the length PLUS the enclosure volume determine the enclosure/port tuning frequency (not Hz level). This is a technical forum after all. 

Also, good luck finding copper bolts. Copper is soft. Threads can strip. A much better choice would be brass bolts. They are mostly copper, but are much stronger in the tensile strength category than pure copper.


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Oscar said:


> once you decide on the port area, the length PLUS the enclosure volume determine the enclosure/port tuning frequency (not Hz level). This is a technical forum after all.
> 
> Also, good luck finding copper bolts. Copper is soft. Threads can strip. A much better choice would be brass bolts. They are mostly copper, but are much stronger in the tensile strength category than pure copper.



Gotcha. While I have ur attention, do u think a 2ft cubic area is enough for that Pioneer W3004SPL sub??

Oh & I found sites with both copper & brass bolts so i'll do my research b4 purchasing.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

SeniorXJ said:


> Gotcha. While I have ur attention, do u think a 2ft cubic area is enough for that Pioneer W3004SPL sub??
> 
> Oh & I found sites with both copper & brass bolts so i'll do my research b4 purchasing.


need T/S parameters


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## Jepalan (Jun 27, 2013)

Oscar said:


> need T/S parameters


Found these out on the inter-webz...

THIELE-SMALL
Model TS-W3004SPL
Diam. cm 30
Qt 0.320
Qms 12.190
Qes 0.330
Fs [Hz] 26.2
Go [l] 37.46
Go [ft 3] 1.323
V [l] 0.473
V [ft3] 1.67 E-02
Sd [m2] 4.23 E-02
Sd [ft2] 0.455
Revc [ohm] DUAL3.0
Levc [mH] at 2000Hz 5340 (8Ω), 1350 (2Ω)
Xmax [mm] 11.2
Xmax [In] 0.44
Zmax [ohm] 240.54 (8Ω), 60.14 (2Ω)
Bl [Tm]28.110 (8Ω), 14.055 (2Ω)
Rms [Ns / m] 3.369
Mms [g] 249.88
Cms [m / N] 1.500 E-04
Mg.Wt. [g] 3100
Flux Density [Gauss] 5700
Hag [mm] 23
Hag [In] 0.906
Hvc [mm] 45
Hvc [In] 1.772
VC.Diameter [mm] 65
Eff [%] 0.20
SPL [dB] 89.0
RMS Power [W] 1000
MMP [W] 3000
Sp Displacement [l] 3.40
Sp Displacement [ft3] 0.120
Recom. Enclosure [l] 35.4
Recom. Enclosure [ft3] 1.25
F0 (In Cabinet) 37.6
Q0 (In Cabinet) 0.459


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Would two 4" flared ports 17" long be considered a 34" long port??


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

SeniorXJ said:


> Would two 4" flared ports 17" long be considered a 34" long port??


No. Win ISD says 2 four inch ports for a 40 hertz tune would be ~18 inches in a 2 cube box

for 35 hertz ~24.5" long for each port.

Dont forget to adjust box volume to accomodate the volume lost due to the ports.

Your amp has a 12db/oct subsonic filter.

You are going to have to be careful with woofer excursion. I see with a 30 hertz subsonic, 2 cubed box and tuned to 35 hertz that with 500 watts, you hit just over 11mm @21 hertz. Which is nice since most music ends at 30 hertz. Upper 40's-50 hertz also gets close to 11mm excursion on that power.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

SeniorXJ said:


> Would two 4" flared ports 17" long be considered a 34" long port??


WinISD 

get it from their Facebook page


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

cubdenno said:


> No. Win ISD says 2 four inch ports for a 40 hertz tune would be ~18 inches in a 2 cube box
> 
> for 35 hertz ~24.5" long for each port.
> 
> ...



Downloading WinISD now...

Not sure I understood all of that, so are u saying a 2 cubed tuned box to 35Hz with a 1000rms sub will be too much for the W3004SPL to take? Can't I adjust the xovers on my 80prs & on the amp to stop anything below 35Hz therefore protecting the sub from over excursion?? 

& yes I know to accommodate for the space that the sub & ports take up & to measure it on the inside or take 1.5" off of the outer diameter.

I'm gonna draw up a diagram & take a pic of it to see if u guys would recommend any adjustments...


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Here's a rough diagram of what im thinking of doing as its NOT to scale:










On the top drawing, the ports would be somewhere around 16" & 8.5" after the bend & they would be below the sub some BUT not as close together as my drawing shows.

The second drawing would have 2 ports stacked ontop of one another entering from the side & going 24.5" putting it past the sub. I realized after I drew it that u cant put two 2' ports on opposite sides cause that would be one long box & is why I wrote "delete this port & stack 2 on one side.

I left out the box dimentions for the sake of just figuring out how to locate & design the 2ft ports!!


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Oscar said:


> If you tune to 30Hz, it should be because you are going to play rap/hip-hop/whatever that actually goes that low. For most regular music, tuning to the mid-upper 30s is fine.


You can also tune low to extend low end roll off. A lot of SQ guys tune really low. I am tuned to 27hz and I get a very flat response.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

even with 2 4" ports your vent air velocity is hitting close to 100% port compression at 1000 watts of input. I say thisbecause of your interest in the SPL


A 3"X12" slot port 34 1/2" long gives adequate port area for 1000 watts. Only problem is you are hitting 16mm of cone excursion at about 48 hertz. Not sure what the XMech spec is on those woofs.

Now this is all software simulated but it gives you a good idea about what should be going on mechanically

You would still need a good highpass at 35-ish with the 12db/oct filter you have.

Now 3 four inch ID ports ~38" long gives adequate port area to keep compression, distortion and noise down.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

A slot port using 3 enclosure walls will only require 60% of the calculated length. This opens up more possibilities because once unheard of port areas for small boxes can be accommodated. This I found through empirical testing. End correction factors are your friends.


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Oscar said:


> A slot port using 3 enclosure walls will only require 60% of the calculated length. This opens up more possibilities because once unheard of port areas for small boxes can be accommodated. This I found through empirical testing. End correction factors are your friends.


Do u have to round out all edges & 90 deg bends in a slotted vent to eliminate port noise, similar to flared out round ports??


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

SeniorXJ said:


> Do u have to round out all edges & 90 deg bends in a slotted vent to eliminate port noise, similar to flared out round ports??


that always helps, but the answer depends on exactly how big you go on port area....the larger the port area the lower the velocity, thus the lower potential for noise.


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

So far i've sourced out everything needed as I like to have everything ready to go before the box build:

- Pioneer W3004SPL wired in parallel to 2ohms..
- Space available, 40"wide 17" high 20" deep. Took pics of cargo area that I will post for added help..
- Preferred usable space, 30"x 15"x 15" & can pick up space with an angled back..
- Deadening for cargo area, roof, rear hatch, & MLV on the floor..
- 1 AWG Welding Cable power wire & ANL fuse..
- 8 ga wire to sub with Brass Bolts for terminals 
- More then likely: Precision Power PPI BK1800.1D
Precision Power PPI BK1800.1D (BK18001D) 1800W RMS Mono Class D Black Ice Car Amp

Hopefully this isn't getting to repetitive for u guys. So after I post pics of my cargo area hoping they'll help u guys help me as the help so far has been appreciated, id like to first figure out which way the sub fires & which way the port should face. Then the best dimentions to use as im still having trouble figuring this out even with these "calculators/help build a sub box" articles that still confuse me!!


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## SeniorXJ (Feb 10, 2012)

This is the rear cargo area:










And this is the angle that the rear seat is at where I can pick up extra cubic space:










- So, should I face the sub towards the rear hatch??
- If so, direction of port??
I have 21" to the tailgate, (not including the seat angle), so the sub would have to be set back a few giving me say 15" depth, but im wondering if the tailgate can take the pressure & abuse??

- Face the sub upwards?? (Seen quite a few SUVs setup this way)
- Direction of Port??
I don't want it any higher then the rear seat at 18", so say 16" max height.

I'll leave this reply with the question of sub & port direction.

THANKS!! 
((Please bare with me on this guys, the help is appreciated!!))


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