# Sticky  the diyma message



## npdang

Just thought I'd re-iterate for our many new members here, the key to a good sounding car.

1. The room/car acoustics will dominate the sound of your system. In order to get the best sound quality possible, focus the majority of your efforts (and budget) on correcting for it either electronically or physically. This includes things like proper driver placement, treatment of enclosures and panels, diffusers or absorptive material, equalization, proper level matching, smooth crossover transitions, time correction, etc.

2. Picking the right drivers for the right application is more important than picking *better* drivers. This also includes taking your skill at the above #1 into account. Many times for a beginner, having the best equipment makes no sense as you can achieve a better sounding car much faster and easier with gear that works best with the acoustics of your car, and requires minimal correction. Haphazardly picking the best gear without consideration for your skill at using it, or with how it will work with the rest of the gear you pick, or with how it will work in your car is a recipe for disaster.

3. Lastly, experiment! I often see people thinking they can "do it right" the first time. That's not how it works in reality. Anyone with a great sounding system will tell you it takes alot of trial and error to get there. Not only to familiarize yourself with the acoustics of your vehicle and different equipment, but to establish a clear reference of what "good sound" should sound like to you.


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## ///Audience

If this dosent get stickyed, somethings wrong.

Great post that sums up the purpose of this site nicely


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## Genxx

To bad the site has gone in another direction as of late vs. what it used to be about.


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## michaelsil1

Thanks for mentioning trial and error.


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## Neil

Genxx said:


> To bad the site has gone in another direction as of late vs. what it used to be about.


Better jump off the bandwagon, then.


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## BigRed

in other words, buy your car wisely!!


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## bretti_kivi

... and be prepared to change things to make it work. Isn't this obvious? select stuff, install, measure, listen, correct and start over....

Bret


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## BEAVER

> To bad the site has gone in another direction as of late vs. what it used to be about.


Isn't people helping people what this site is supposed to be about? It should be, as all good sites should.

Some of us just need a little more help than others and like to rely on some of you "seasoned vets" for opinions. Most of you guys have been there and done that. 

The wealth of knowledge that the members of this site share is unmatched anywhere else on the web. I think a lot of the newer (less educated) members, including myself are trying to use this fact to our advantage. 

Most of us don't have unlimited resources ($) to randomly alter our set-ups on a whim. If we can prevent ourselves from making a mistake that someone else has already made by asking a few questions, why not?


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## ///Audience

BEAVER said:


> Most of us don't have unlimited resources ($) to randomly alter our set-ups on a whim.


Whish is another thing this site was based over. not having to use the "most expensive" or "best" drivers to create good sound. DIY involved buying speakers that ultimatly would work BEST in your setup (began to involve much cheaper raw home audio drivers).


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## tcguy85

BEAVER said:


> Isn't people helping people what this site is supposed to be about? It should be, as all good sites should.
> 
> Some of us just need a little more help than others and like to rely on some of you "seasoned vets" for opinions. Most of you guys have been there and done that.
> 
> The wealth of knowledge that the members of this site share is unmatched anywhere else on the web. I think a lot of the newer (less educated) members, including myself are trying to use this fact to our advantage.
> 
> Most of us don't have unlimited resources ($) to randomly alter our set-ups on a whim. If we can prevent ourselves from making a mistake that someone else has already made by asking a few questions, why not?


i agree completely!


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## BEAVER

> Trial and error doesn't have to be terribly expensive. I figure I've probably lost about 10% each time I've had to sell something after demoing it. That's not too bad of a cost for demoing drivers/amps/etc in your car using your ears.


You, Sir, have been very lucky. I seem to lose my ass any time I try to sell anything, lol.


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## FoxPro5

BEAVER said:


> Isn't people helping people what this site is supposed to be about? It should be, as all good sites should.


Yes, not...












> Some of us just need a little more help than others and like to rely on some of you "seasoned vets" for opinions. Most of you guys have been there and done that.


Search function! 



> The wealth of knowledge that the members of this site share is unmatched anywhere else on the web. I think a lot of the newer (less educated) members, including myself are trying to use this fact to our advantage.


You seem to be in the minority, thus the purpose of this post. 



> Most of us don't have unlimited resources ($) to randomly alter our set-ups on a whim. If we can prevent ourselves from making a mistake that someone else has already made by asking a few questions, why not?


Welcome to DIYMA, circa 2005.


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## BEAVER

> Yes, not...


 



> Search function!


I use the search all the time, but I think we can all agree that it only takes you so far...



> You seem to be in the minority, thus the purpose of this post.


Again...


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## MiniVanMan

BEAVER said:


> I use the search all the time, but I think we can all agree that it only takes you so far...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...


What Fox is saying is that the original spirit of DIYMA is dead. You may actually be here in the right spirit, but this post was brought on by the influx of people coming from other forums spouting the same crap they did over there.

The average age level of this forum has gone down about 10 years in the last 6 months or so. At one point I'd say average age level was around 30.


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## npdang

I agree. It doesn't have to be expensive. Both PE and Madisound have quite liberal return policies. Also, it's very possible to scour the used market and make acquisitions with minimal losses. 

I'm not suggesting anyone change their setup on a whim, or at random, but you can make several educated choices that help to narrow down the field. Regardless of whether you have the money or not, Imho it's very difficult to advance your knowledge and achieve the best possible results without some experimentation. In other words, I feel it's generally better to spend $100 on 2 or even 3 choices than to simply take a leap of faith on one "better" option, or to even budget money to cover the costs of returns.

The purpose of creating this thread isn't to admonish the new guys, but to enlighten. I'm more than happy to answer the same questions time and again, but I feel that some of the questions I'm answering aren't going to be ultimately useful to anyone because they aren't asked in the context of the above 3 things in my first post.


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## Fixtion

seems as though the newer crowd is catching on to the concept of sq, 
but do not neccessarily from a background of sq references.

we have alot of new people to the realm of sq, and we'll have to
accomedate the ones that are willing to play, and humor the ones who aren't, yet curious.

perhaps if we'd like to keep this forum to like minds we should require a screening of installation and knowledge of sq orientation to permit new members? just a horrible thought that i know some members may like or want, haha.

-fixtion


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## Daishi

MiniVan and FoxPro hit the nail on the head. When I first came here I spent my first 6 months just reading, searching and hunting through the wealth of knowledge that was here and being posted everyday. I learned a ton about using home audio drivers, how to do proper install techniques, what most of the measurement values we see on stuff actually meant etc...Now it's becoming just another standard issue car audio forum where the same stuff that is spouted everywhere is now showing up here. It's not about cheap amazing drivers, but about expensive speakers, amps and the like. I'm not opposed to those things, so please don't get me wrong, but I love learning about the cheaper options to help those who DON'T have a huge budget.


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## Rudeboy

As is immediately obvious, people here are pretty willing to offer assistance. I think the original spirit of DIYMA and the changes some of us don't like can all be addressed in one sentence: *Try SOMETHING before asking any questions. * Every question about what to try with a blank slate can be answered by searching or lurking. DIYMA is about discussing what to do next, how to get closer to your goals than you already are.


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## tcguy85

i'd just like to say that yes i am sorta newer here, i have learned a lot here and i love this place. so much great information, so many great people. there are a few question posted from time to time that don't really need to be posted, but how about we just don't answer. if you don't feel the question deserves an answer just let it be. the poster will/should realize he/she doesn't fit in here and leave on their own, or stop posting and start reading for the time being.


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## Boostedrex

I'm one of the newbies here still IMHO, but even I can see that this site has changed quite a bit since I joined. It's still about the best car audio forum on the net though, even with the influx of CA.com members.

And thanks again to all of the forum gurus who have helped me out TREMENDOUSLY over the last several months.

Zach


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## demon2091tb

I really don't have anything to add, those points need to be stressed.....

But to see this being brought up, as all three points usually get looked over by beginners or first timers, I think there also needs to be something spoke even briefly about subjectivism, but not to the extreme nature some people can take it, Subjectivism as a whole is what this hobby plays off of entirely.... 




> sub·jec·tive [suhb-jek-tiv] –adjective
> 
> 1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective).
> 2. pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
> 3. placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.


....subjective perspective on how something should or shouldn't sound, drives home very deeply to me and i keep on, no matter how many times i count, people always say in "BEST" conversations that this driver is better than everything, no reason why, no frame of reference to compair it too, just only that so and so is best, nothing more. Never even addressing the fact that they could easily have it choked in a door, enclosure, with a really bad clipped signal going through it, in that case thats a horrible frame of reference. But its done many many times and people don't even realize it until they know what to look for, subjectivism creates our world, and shapes it to your own standards, you compair everything to that standard, however high it is, its up to you to raise that bar using correct information to standardize yourself by.....Just do a little homework.

Very nice thread.


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## Genxx

DevilDriver said:


> Better jump off the bandwagon, then.


It appears you have not noticed the huge change in the post around here vs. just 6 months ago.

No more speaker testing, really good tutorials or indepth disuccions other than(What about the ZUKI amps).

Lets just have another sub question ect. I can visit all that CA.COM ect.

So not sure what bandwagon you are referring to. Other than good post, speaker testing and good technical discussions. If so then I am happy to be on that bandwagon.


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## jj_diamond

#3 is the most frustrating and hardest on your wallet, in my experience.


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## FoxPro5

BEAVER said:


> I use the search all the time, but I think we can all agree that it only takes you so far...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...


I was referring to those that come here and want to be spoon fed. When DIYMA first started, there were A LOT of new explorers...just as there are now. However, we didn't go around wining and bitching if someone didn't have the answers for us. We (and I say "we" as sort of a collection of dudes interested in the same thing) learned just as NPD has said, via trial and error.

There were a lot of "what speaker" threads, but they were usually well-asked and respectively executed. now its like some of goofballz think this is sounddommain and go on and on and never capitalize their **** and then expect people to read their random thoughts and then everyone naturallly ignores it and then the come back in 11 minutes and type "bump" in the next reply..... 

Also, npdang would roll like at least one driver review out per week, it seemed. Guys really got excited about that because prior to him, it was mainly Zaph...and maybe a couple other small-timers. This was some major ammo to make informed decisions about DIY car audio.

It's not that the forum has gone downhill so much it's that the people that have been here the longest and have tired a lot of the tips out and...
- know better (been there done that)
- don't give a **** if you just got a new pair of CDT's! (yea, so what)
- need further reviews to stay excited (fine, what's next)

Dig?


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## BEAVER

> Dig?


Oh, I dig. I understand where you're coming from completely. I just hope you aren't lumping me in with a bunch of guys who are "whining and bitching".

I've been nothing but respectful throughout my time here and am very greatful for everything I have learned, thus far. I'd like to stick around and learn a lot more, but for me that means asking questions... I hope nobody minds.


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## FoxPro5

BEAVER said:


> Oh, I dig. I understand where you're coming from completely. I just hope you aren't lumping me in with a bunch of guys who are "whining and bitching".


No, I'm not and that's why I said earlier that you are in the minority of that group.  

Listen, I'm not here to judge anyone else. Ask what you want, say what you want, whatever. I'm merely explaining from my POV what I've seen over time.

And I agree with MVM, the "spirit" of DIY is dead.....



















...and that's why Chad sees dead people all the time. Poor fella.


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## drtool

I'am new here. When I came to this site I knew I would get the best sound, whatever my budget. Then I read about 50-75 post of interest over the weekend.There will be a wingnut or 2 that comes along, but the cream(the wise and experanced posters on this forum) will keep diyma at the top.In life the pendulum has to swing a little. Bonus I met 4 great people so far, Priceless


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## AUr6

Rudeboy said:


> As is immediately obvious, people here are pretty willing to offer assistance. I think the original spirit of DIYMA and the changes some of us don't like can all be addressed in one sentence: *Try SOMETHING before asking any questions. * Every question about what to try with a blank slate can be answered by searching or lurking. DIYMA is about discussing what to do next, how to get closer to your goals than you already are.


very well spoken and a perfect compliment to npdang's original comments. I'm definitely still a noob here even though i've been lurking for years, but this is precisely why i became a regular here on this forum. I hate wading through all the latest threads asking for spoonfeeding. It's all relative. There is no best, only what is best to you and for your application in you budget. Sure there are different levels of overall quality, but beyond that, it's time to get your hands dirty and report your experiences instead of reaching for the silver spoon.


... oh i like the thought... let the pendulum swing... it will return to its former glory.


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## npdang

I'm more than happy to continue testing drivers... however it seems that interest has really dropped. The last few that I put up barely got a few hundred views. It's also expensive for me to spend the money purchasing these drivers as well, when I can't sell them on the other end even at nearly half what I paid (think Alpine h650).

It'd be nice if we had more access to drivers for testing, maybe a collection such as the ED AV12". That way we're covered money wise, and we'll have a driver that everyone wants to see tested.


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## durwood

npdang said:


> I'm more than happy to continue testing drivers... however it seems that interest has really dropped. The last few that I put up barely got a few hundred views. It's also expensive for me to spend the money purchasing these drivers as well, when I can't sell them on the other end even at nearly half what I paid (think Alpine h650).
> 
> It'd be nice if we had more access to drivers for testing, maybe a collection such as the ED AV12". That way we're covered money wise, and we'll have a driver that everyone wants to see tested.


I say pick a driver, see if you can collect enough money from forum members interested in seeing selected driver tested (Set donation amount), then raffle it off (have a drawing) to those who contributed.

I thought you no longer had your test equipment?


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## Rudeboy

durwood said:


> I say pick a driver, see if you can collect enough money from forum members interested in seeing selected driver tested (Set donation amount), then raffle it off (have a drawing) to those who contributed.
> 
> I thought you no longer had your test equipment?


Seems like a good idea. If we could raise enough to ship that ED sub back and forth across the country, we ought to be able to work something out.


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## Fellippe

npdang said:


> I'm more than happy to continue testing drivers... however it seems that interest has really dropped. The last few that I put up barely got a few hundred views. It's also expensive for me to spend the money purchasing these drivers as well, when I can't sell them on the other end even at nearly half what I paid (think Alpine h650).
> 
> It'd be nice if we had more access to drivers for testing, maybe a collection such as the ED AV12". That way we're covered money wise, and we'll have a driver that everyone wants to see tested.


Dangie...

Twice I asked you if you were interested in testing a mid.....several months apart, and both times you said you were too busy or didn't have the equipment.

These dome mids in '96 retailed for $800 a pair...a lot of money then or now. And these were the real deal....if you were into the smooth, warm dome, it was #1 by many standards. 

But the good thing is that the street price has dropped a lot because nobody knows about them. My friend sold a pair to me awhile back for $300, but I just picked up another pair BNIB on ebay for $90 recently!...that might interest some members on here.  

Perhaps we only test P.E./Madisound stuff?


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## Arc

I would like to get back into testing drivers if possible. I would give up any driver I had in my possession to be tested. 

I really like the raffle idea.

Again, There are some great points here. Thank you NPD for everything you have done, and for the pick me up message.


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## ZoNtO

I noticed that after a two year hiatus being out of country, there really wasn't much of a difference in the DIY stuff being recommended. It was still the Seas stuff from Madisound back in 2005, and that's what a lot of it is today. I'm not an expert by any means, but could there also be a lull in reviews due partly to the lull in speaker manufacturers bringing in quality new stuff? I mean there's been the 720PRS, a few new subs and headunits, etc... but nothing really revolutionary from what I've read. I could still be content on the knowledge I had in 2005.

That said, I want to thank everyone for their help here on the forums. I do feel that there is a more "n00bish" aire here now, but at the same time maybe that's because people trust the advice here more than some of the mainstream forums. It's comforting that when I do meander over to sounddomain or caraudio.com that I see our members here posting solid advice there too! Keep it up guys!


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## durwood

Some recent threads have sparked some thoughts that it seems some people might overlook.

How many of you define your goals before you set out picking and chosing equipment and designing your install?

This is key to ANY project. If you have no set or defined goals, how will you know if you accomplish what you set out to do? Have a look through the install section. How many installs shown list or define their goals? How many list or define their goals in THE VERY FIRST POST? 

Might I suggest anyone thinking of posting their install, think about and define their goals before they even start. Would you walk into a store with a pile of money without even having some _basic_ idea of how you want your setup to turn out? This will help you to not run around in circles buying all sorts of gear or get suckered by some forum boner (which we all do from time to time).

Don't be afraid to experiment and don't be afraid to admit you are experimenting, but make sure you know what or WHY you are experimenting, and don't be afraid to list your accomplishments AND failures. Not everything turns out good, but understanding why it didn't turn out good will help you improve, this is science 101.

Background -> Hypothesis/Goal -> Procedure -> Analysis -> Conclusion.


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## BTA

Fellippe said:


> Dangie...
> 
> Twice I asked you if you were interested in testing a mid.....several months apart, and both times you said you were too busy or didn't have the equipment.
> 
> These dome mids in '96 retailed for $800 a pair...a lot of money then or now. And these were the real deal....if you were into the smooth, warm dome, it was #1 by many standards.
> 
> But the good thing is that the street price has dropped a lot because nobody knows about them. My friend sold a pair to me awhile back for $300, but I just picked up another pair BNIB on ebay for $90 recently!...that might interest some members on here.
> 
> Perhaps we only test P.E./Madisound stuff?


Well, personally I'd rather he spend time testing drivers that are readily available, not something you can find on ebay once in a while.

And PE/madisound are the best sources at the moment.


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## Rudeboy

BTA said:


> Well, personally I'd rather he spend time testing drivers that are readily available, not something you can find on ebay once in a while.
> 
> And PE/madisound are the best sources at the moment.


Right, agreed. You also have to realize circumstances change and when someone volunteers a service, it isn't unreasonable to let them have some say in what they want to do. Ask nicely and you never know what might be possible.


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## AUr6

I think this needs to go back to the top of the list when I see members on the board with less than 10 posts and joined less than a month ago asking the same questions everyone else has already discussed ad nauseum. 

"What's the best sub for XX budget?" has already been asked. Most any budget-minded person looking for a sub will find everything in their price range has already been reviewed several times. The search button is your friend.


(sorry to sound like the *******)


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## Genxx

durwood said:


> Some recent threads have sparked some thoughts that it seems some people might overlook.
> 
> How many of you define your goals before you set out picking and chosing equipment and designing your install?
> 
> This is key to ANY project. If you have no set or defined goals, how will you know if you accomplish what you set out to do? Have a look through the install section. How many installs shown list or define their goals? How many list or define their goals in THE VERY FIRST POST?
> 
> Might I suggest anyone thinking of posting their install, think about and define their goals before they even start. Would you walk into a store with a pile of money without even having some _basic_ idea of how you want your setup to turn out? This will help you to not run around in circles buying all sorts of gear or get suckered by some forum boner (which we all do from time to time).
> 
> Don't be afraid to experiment and don't be afraid to admit you are experimenting, but make sure you know what or WHY you are experimenting, and don't be afraid to list your accomplishments AND failures. Not everything turns out good, but understanding why it didn't turn out good will help you improve, this is science 101.
> 
> Background -> Hypothesis/Goal -> Procedure -> Analysis -> Conclusion.



Damn, good advice.^^^^


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## CHH777

Rudeboy said:


> *Try SOMETHING before asking any questions. *


I cannot agree with this statement more with the possible exception of questions regarding safety (i.e. electrical, thermal considerations) prior to trying something.

I am a noob here but I read every day and rarely post. I must admit that I have collected a ****-ton of gear and so far have only added a HU, sub and sub amp to my ride. So, I don't do the "Which combo will sound better" thing. I will eventually evaluate every HU, amp, sub & set of comps I own in every combination possible to see what I like best.


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## effenay

Rudeboy said:


> *Try SOMETHING before asking any questions.*


+1

A while back I posted instructions on how to ignore the Off Topic forum. Lately I've been wishing that there was a separate forum for noob questions so that I could ignore that too.


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## demon2091tb

effenay said:


> +1
> 
> A while back I posted instructions on how to ignore the Off Topic forum. Lately I've been wishing that there was a separate forum for noob questions so that I could ignore that too.


Its problem isint noob questions, i really have no problem answering those, but i do have a problem looking on the first page of threads, flipping to page two, and seeing the same 2-5 threads about the SAME thing! Which i'm sure alot of you have seen..........Lets get back to the idea that midranges are the foundation to any setup, as they carry the most burden..........Not subs, which i see coming up more and more often, and is the thing that most beginners look to for a nice system, How loud can my sub go, and how much power do i have for it.......

Would like to see more people asking about midranges, midbasses, tweets, etc, and not just subs..........There has been some good topics lately on amps, ie headroom, etc. That are packed full of info..........thats the old diyma still kicking and sreaming trying to get back to the old ways.


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## ANT

npdang said:


> I'm more than happy to continue testing drivers... however it seems that interest has really dropped. The last few that I put up barely got a few hundred views. It's also expensive for me to spend the money purchasing these drivers as well, when I can't sell them on the other end even at nearly half what I paid (think Alpine h650).
> 
> It'd be nice if we had more access to drivers for testing, maybe a collection such as the ED AV12". That way we're covered money wise, and we'll have a driver that everyone wants to see tested.


I know a lot of guys were wanting to see you test the SSA Icon.
I'd be willing to purchase one of these for you to test, then maybe we could give it away to some lucky forum member...

ANT


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## 328iBMW

DIYMA said:


> I know a lot of guys were wanting to see you test the SSA Icon.
> I'd be willing to purchase one of these for you to test, then maybe we could give it away to some luck forum member...
> 
> ANT


That sounds like an excellent idea.


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## DonovanM

DIYMA said:


> I know a lot of guys were wanting to see you test the SSA Icon.
> I'd be willing to purchase one of these for you to test, then maybe we could give it away to some luck forum member...
> 
> ANT


That sounds like an excellent idea


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## Fixtion

DIYMA said:


> I know a lot of guys were wanting to see you test the SSA Icon.
> I'd be willing to purchase one of these for you to test, then maybe we could give it away to some luck forum member...
> 
> ANT


That sounds like an excellent idea!


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## demon2091tb

DIYMA said:


> I know a lot of guys were wanting to see you test the SSA Icon.
> I'd be willing to purchase one of these for you to test, then maybe we could give it away to some luck forum member...
> 
> ANT


Might as well add.

....That sounds like an excellent idear...


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## DonovanM

demon2091tb said:


> Might as well add.
> 
> ....That sounds like an excellent idear...


You're doing it wrong


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## ErinH

Everyone PP Ant $5 to help out. 

If you, Ant, are willing to do this, I'll send you $5 right now. 

LMK.


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## BEAVER

I'd be interested in an SSA Icon test, too... and maybe the new IDQV3?


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## ANT

bikinpunk said:


> Everyone PP Ant $5 to help out.
> 
> If you, Ant, are willing to do this, I'll send you $5 right now.
> 
> LMK.


Hell Yeah I am willing to do it.
Don't worry about sending me any money. 
I'll make it happen if NPDang is willing.

ANT


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## npdang

I'm willling, but it'd have to be ASAP... no later than end of next week.


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## ANT

What size sub and VC configuration would you like?

ANT


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## npdang

How about the 12", dual 2 ohm?


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## ANT

npdang said:


> How about the 12", dual 2 ohm?


I have an email in to Mark.
His shop is only about 5 miles away from mine.
Let me see what I can do.

ANT


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## lostdaytomorrow

DIYMA said:


> I have an email in to Mark.
> His shop is only about 5 miles away from mine.
> Let me see what I can do.
> 
> ANT


Holy ****, this would be great. I'm seriously considering running two ICONS right now over two Fi Q's.

Thanks ANT and npdang.


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## Oliver

DIYMA said:


> What size sub and VC configuration would you like?
> 
> ANT


Nice choice by Nguyen  DVC 2 ohm.


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## ANT

lostdaytomorrow said:


> Holy ****, this would be great. I'm seriously considering running two ICONS right now over two Fi Q's.
> 
> Thanks ANT and npdang.


We just put an 12" icon in my girl firends car last weekend. Sealed with 1 cube at 600 watts from a hifonics zeus.

Sounds real nice. 
She is very happy with it. We are going to kill the trunk with Damplifier Pro and Spectrum this weekend, should help a ton.

ANT


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## SSaudio

DIYMA said:


> I know a lot of guys were wanting to see you test the SSA Icon.
> I'd be willing to purchase one of these for you to test, then maybe we could give it away to some lucky forum member...
> 
> ANT


Ok, the ICON order has been placed with our build house, and i'll forward tracking information as soon as I get it.


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## Oliver

Way to go Ant !!, Thanx Mark ! for the heads up !!


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## Aaron Clinton

*I think npdang will like it. We love the Icon and Icon owners have loved it.*


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## ANT

denim said:


> *I think npdang will like it. We love the Icon and Icon owners have loved it.*


I know my girl friend does.
I Just got her car for the weekend and deadened the trunk.
Used up some mat and some liquid.

Once it is dry (48 hours or so) I'll report back with my thoughts on the icon. ( in a different thread)
Sounded good in the car, but the trunk was no damn noisy it was hard to get the whole picture..
Did a little bit of tuning with the HU eq, amp xo and gains...


ANT


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## Nothingness

I need to deaden/seal the living life out of my rain prone car...such a nightmare it is in this Oregon rain. I know my wife would love to see a car free of wet floors...


----------



## Aaron Clinton

DIYMA said:


> I know my girl friend does.
> I Just got her car for the weekend and deadened the trunk.
> Used up some mat and some liquid.
> 
> Once it is dry (48 hours or so) I'll report back with my thoughts on the icon.
> Sounded good in the car, but the trunk was no damn noisy it was hard to get the whole picture..
> Did a little bit of tuning with the HU eq, amp xo and gains...
> More to report soon..
> 
> ANT


*Just give it time to break in, over time it will loosen up some.*


----------



## sqshoestring

Great thread, I'm waiting for things to thaw out here before I take stuff out of my car that I thought last time would work great....and now I have not been able to get it to work well enough with fair amount of fiddling with it. Today was good though, because one of my rear speakers worked again. Thought it was trashed and turned them off many months ago, must be a connection issue. I'm preparing to swap amps, rear and maybe front drivers, and more deadening. Might change out subs too but not bought any yet....too cold here for that. I wish it was raining it would melt the snow.


----------



## Kahooli

I have to point out the obvious.... I read the first 3 pages, and at the bottom there were eGay links featuring audiobahn capacitors and pyle amps...


----------



## ANT

denim said:


> *Just give it time to break in, over time it will loosen up some.*


Don't get me wrong.
IT sounds great right now.
I just can't give it a proper audition until the trunk is deadened..

I am sure that the data npdang will give will tottally outweigh my amature opinion though.
I am glad he is willing to test out a subwoofer for us.
That is one thing I know that makes DIYMA different from ohter forums.
NPDANG

Now that we have that out of the way, lets try to get back on topic.

ANT


----------



## ACRucrazy

Kahooli said:


> I have to point out the obvious.... I read the first 3 pages, and at the bottom there were eGay links featuring audiobahn capacitors and pyle amps...


LOL!


----------



## smokeybehr

I matted the inside of my Ford Ranger, and it reduced a major part of the road noise and other vibrations. I used the same box that I had built and tuned to sit in the trunk of my Legend. It's an all Kenwood system with a CD/MP3/WMA head, Sirius tuner, amp and all speakers. 

I've been building and repairing speaker boxes for years, mostly for pro audio, so I know all of the tricks to make a cabinet sound both good and loud.


----------



## DejaWiz

Excellent post, NPD!

You hit the nail right on the head with what path the true automotive audiophile needs to walk.


----------



## bmrsnr303

I will have you all know I read the entire thread before posting... Anyhow I will get to my point. I have been away from car audio for several years. At that point I knew enough not to post over and over what sub is best, to do my research then ask if I had questions still, but not much beyond that.

I have recently gotten back into it gradually over the last 6 months say. I wasn't starting from such a great point, though, so I still have a lot to learn. See I have ADD and while I might understand a lot of things very well, there certain things I just don't have a clue at. I look at stuff like it is written in hieroglyphics. 

I am stating to understand things more, but my problem at this point lies in the fact that I really am not handy. I am afraid to do my own installs. With my ADD I would seriously have to have someone oversee me. I have actually thought of having my GF be my organization and as long as she keeps my brain on straight I am fine since I am pretty smart...but back to the subject...

Alot of my problem lies in not having installation experience and not doing any installs to date yet. I know it is the chance I take, but I might want to ask a ot more questions than many of you because trial and error for me means not only equipment, but labor that you get NOTHING back for when you swap around.


----------



## Rudeboy

No offense guys, but the discussion of the Icon and sound deadening, etc. in this thread not only diminishes the importance of the topic, but actually demonstrates something we should be trying to avoid.


----------



## acuvox

I agree with NPDang's philosophy, but my "mobile audio" has nothing to do with cars. After hearing "Allman Brothers Live at the Fillmore East" (1972) I discovered that recordings were not good enough either from performance or sonics criteria, so I went mobile for recording. By 1978 I achieved my dream - a 24 track recording truck. Following the same philosophy I tuned it flat from 50Hz to 15KHz using only an active crossover and massive acoustics (all walls, ceiling, approx. 30% volume of a 22'x8'x9' foot box). You can't "fix it in the mix" and room EQ never gets you back to accurate. Today I am evolving a backpack recording studio and making the parts I can't buy - like a surround array microphone. Anyone else?


----------



## bigjae1976

npdang said:


> I often see people thinking they can "do it right" the first time. That's not how it works in reality.


Amen!

When I started in car audio in 1994, I had some pretty good equipment...in fact I had the very same OZ audio drivers I bought in 1996 that I have now.

In my 96 Dodge Stratus, the mids were simply screwed into the OEM door location and tweets were on the dash. I always felt the mids were weak.

Now in my 04 BMW, the same exact mids are installed into the door. This time, the door is mostly sealed using aluminum mesh, raamat, and ensolite. In addition, the mounting location is reinforced with MDF and duraglas.

From memory, I can never remember turning my subs off and being impressed with the low bass output not to mention the clarity and smoothness. It feels like I am finally getting to know what my speakers are really capable of. Its all in the install!

On the subject of equipment selection, I hate people who say [insert brand] is the best! It always depends on the application and the user's personal preference.


----------



## waternut

I'm still reading and learning. I read to learn and improve my skills and knowledge about installs and tuning. #3 is by far the hardest. After many home installs for myself, son, daughter and wife have rarely be happy the first or second time. Thats why I joined, to try and see what has worked or not worked for others to try and improve my installs and sounds. 
That said I try to ask intelligent questions when I can but guess what? Some times you ask dumb ones because you need the answers. After you know the answer it may have been a stupid question but you needed to learn to move up a notch and ask better question in the future. 
As a newbe I read a LOT more than I post and try to search old post to find answers to my questions instead of bring up old well answered issues and hope that gets me moving on, some times it isn't enough and a stupid question gets reposted. Please be patient with the new guys and gals... we are trying to learn what a lot of you guys and gals already know and take for granted. 
This is why we join and why I am here.


----------



## Shplad

*Second bmrsnr303's sentiments*

Hi folks:

In talking about the "old DIYMA" spirit, I would like to add my own story and thoughts,
which in some ways echo bmrsnr303's sentiments and experience.

In my case, I have several chronic illnesses. That can make it very challenging for me
to do both research and the actual work on the car. I'm not asking for sympathy, and I
don't take the attitude that anyone here should make up for any of that-I've worked 
like a dog so far on my own project and will continue to do so. But work on my car is coming 
embarrassingly slowly, so patience with my posts would be appreciated. Please read on...

Also, please remember that not all of us have houses with or access to, garages or 
suitable work areas and/or the breadth of tools many of you have. I live in a high-rise 
apartment, and have to work in the underground parking lot, where it is cold, dusty, 
there is no AC power and little room to move. Add to that a limited budget (again due 
to health problems) and the result can be challenges for some of us that most of you 
probably would never have dreamed of. 

That being said...like others, I came here due to the wealth of information, helpful attitude
and openness that is exhibited here.

Personally, I would like to see more short, but well-organized beginners' documents. 
I would love to see more HOWTOs and FAQs for basic fabrication/work procedures, 
and perhaps even for tools and materials. Why, you ask? Perhaps an example.... 
After Googling for half an hour, I had to call 4 different stores and companies, and still 
got drill bits the wrong size for my machine screws. I even called one of the major 
bit manufacturers, and a tech. rep. there gave me info that was dead wrong. Not having 
had a full set of high speed drill bits, that meant more trips to the store for me.
(Oh, and the guy at the hardware store also got it wrong-I had to go back a 3rd time 
to get someone more knowledgeable to measure the screw with calipers) I could go on 
further, but I digress.

Another example-later, I used steel filler to fill factory speaker screw holes, only to have 
it crumble like a cookie when I used a rivet nut tool on it. Probably my fault...but even so,
I still need to figure out what I did wrong.

When I painted over the area, I asked the people at the hardware store (auto body section)
if the two paints they were recommending were compatible. "Of course!", I was told. 
The undercoat stuck. The topcoat scraped right off with just a light touch of your fingernail. 
Time to start over with that step. Ouch! In my experience with forums on other hobbies/areas,
short HOWTOs and FAQs are a pain to write, I know, but short-term pain is long-term gain.
They will contribute the already friendly atmosphere here, and reduce the number of posts 
necessary from veterans in answering basic questions. "Read FAQ #6!"

So, to the gentleman that wrote "first, try something", I absolutely agree. I read material 
here and on other sites for days before I started my work, and I'm still reading/posting 
questions. But there are certain things I don't want to learn the hard way, particularly 
when redoing them could mean signficantly higher material costs, more trips to the store, 
hours more of work time, or damage to my car. Throw in my work environment and my health, 
and..well..I think you can see where I'm coming from.

I guess you could say that if the DIYMA includes things like DIY driver review, it has a spirit 
of inclusiveness. If we want to preserve that spirit, the above are a couple more ways IMHO
that we might do that.

Thanks for reading my novel.


Shplad


----------



## miked56

I, as a newby here and to SQ in car audio was sent a msg by NPDang to review this thread. As such I guess I have done something in error on the forum and for that I'm sorry. I have been scanning many of the audio forums and this one seemed to be the most active and filled with the greatest amount of information so I thought I'd use that wealth of knowledge to help me along my path to better SQ. Obviously I've erred in the tone or type of Q's I've asked so again mea culpa.
When I figure out the errors of my ways I'll start posting again but until then I guess I'll have to confine myself to lurking. However, until I can post again I'd just like to thank all who have responded to my Q's and to the community at large for the tremendous amount of time it must have taken to post so much interesting and useful information on this site.


----------



## BEAVER

I believe everyone received the e-mail... that, or I need to stop posting, too.


----------



## Rudeboy

BEAVER said:


> I believe everyone received the e-mail... that, or I need to stop posting, too.


Yup, I assume it was just sent to the trouble makers since I got one too.


----------



## Oliver

npdang said:


> Just thought I'd re-iterate for our many new members here, the key to a good sounding car.
> 
> 1. The room/car acoustics will dominate the sound of your system. In order to get the best sound quality possible, focus the majority of your efforts (and budget) on correcting for it either electronically or physically. This includes things like proper driver placement, treatment of enclosures and panels, diffusers or absorptive material, equalization, proper level matching, smooth crossover transitions, time correction, etc.
> 
> 2. Picking the right drivers for the right application is more important than picking *better* drivers. This also includes taking your skill at the above #1 into account. Many times for a beginner, having the best equipment makes no sense as you can achieve a better sounding car much faster and easier with gear that works best with the acoustics of your car, and requires minimal correction. Haphazardly picking the best gear without consideration for your skill at using it, or with how it will work with the rest of the gear you pick, or with how it will work in your car is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> 3. Lastly, experiment! I often see people thinking they can "do it right" the first time. That's not how it works in reality. Anyone with a great sounding system will tell you it takes alot of trial and error to get there. Not only to familiarize yourself with the acoustics of your vehicle and different equipment, but to establish a clear reference of what "good sound" should sound like to you.


That sums it up !  

"There is never time to do it right, BUT ,there is always time to do it over  "


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## Eskimo

I understand everyone's point.. I've been visiting this site for years before I actually registered, but I have have to give a HUGE thank you to the collective "WE" of this board. 

I would never have ever given a metal-dome tweeter a second look based on the sound I like and my experience with them in the past, but the reviews and comments about the Seas tweets made me give them a shot, and I have to say, I absolutely LOVE them.. I did try a few different soft-domes first, but I think these are a keeper...


----------



## terbow

I would like to post my thoughts on this thread. Firstly, the original posters advice is very well put, and makes sense once you understand this place.

Mind you im very new to this, and these are just my thoughts...

I think alot of the problems may lie in the way new users are brought here. For example, I was going to order Raamat from Rick, and he asked me about my setup. He recommended i get a better SQ subwoofer, and perhaps change my speakers to something nicer, but without spending alot. Naturally he sent me here.

All I recieved was a link however. Theres not really a structure to this place where if your new, you know exactly what to look for. I think a FAQ of some sort or even guidelines would be a great idea. 

When i came here, although interested in the idea, I felt very lost and didn't even know what i was looking for. The store has 1 subwoofer, and no components, so if your recommended here to check out cheap but good sounding speakers, youd go right to the store and see what they have, but there isnt any. So i went to search, but what should i search for? 

This place doesnt exactly guide you, and im not expecting to be spoonfed, but at the very minimum, give me some guidelines (where do i get the stuff?, whats to look for based on my setup etc etc). I understand the premise of this site, and i think its a great idea, but all i see is expensive imported amps, and expensive speakers from the unguided searches i try.

I would love to try out some drivers, and make my own setup but its really hard to find information on here, and when you ask you just get links to sites that sell electronic parts with 26.00 drivers that all look the same. Thats not a complaint, but it doesnt exactly help either for those of us who are recommended here (which i bet is more than youd expect), rather than those of us who are specifically looking for this kind of site.


So thats my take on it. I know one day i will figure it out, im patient, but a lil guidance would be fantastic. Sometimes, you just dont know what to ask for (either in search or post)


----------



## Shplad

Okay, I hope I'm not speaking out too much as a newbie to this forum, but I can also agree with terbow's post above. I have a great deal of experience on other forums related to IT (computers), as that's what I do for a living.

One of the things that helps make a forum great, IMO, is good search keywords. Often on forums, one is told to use the search function, but that is often not helpful if people don't use relevant keywords, or misspell key words. In that vein, it would be nice if users could be encouraged/urged to to use care in choosing the the key words of the subjects of their posts, and to check their spelling, at least the spelling of the words in the post's subject.

The Internet is a great source of info., but it is, by its very nature, not well-organized. They don't call 'em "hyperlinks" for nothing. 


Shplad






terbow said:


> I would like to post my thoughts on this thread. Firstly, the original posters advice is very well put, and makes sense once you understand this place.


----------



## ANT

Rudeboy said:


> No offense guys, but the discussion of the Icon and sound deadening, etc. in this thread not only diminishes the importance of the topic, but actually demonstrates something we should be trying to avoid.


Agreed


----------



## GlasSman

Yeah stay on topic guys!


----------



## Brucedog

That's what I can live with...

If the tuning program /dB meter / $$$!!! guys want to have fun *their* way

AND

If the bolt-an-old-pair-of-plastic-boombox-speakers / try anything / low budget guys want to have a go *their* way...

We can meet here and all get a kick out of interracting / learning together.

From an old head - peace is the ONLY game worth playing. Rock on. Be yourself.


----------



## npdang

Hey guys, the DIYMA message is not about "not helping" the beginner, or telling you to use the search function. Just something to help you form questions that will ultimately be of more use to you.

For example, rather than just starting a speaker A versus speaker B thread as is typical, and then getting a bunch of replies that are completely meaningless... you could ask, has anyone used speaker A or speaker B in this exact same car? And what were your experiences, and things to look for or problem areas to address? Which one was easier to setup? Are there any other recommendations?

I rarely ever see threads asking... what are the problem areas with my car, or where are the best spots to mount a driver in my vehicle?


----------



## tr0y_audi0

npdang said:


> I rarely ever see threads asking... what are the problem areas with my car, or where are the best spots to mount a driver in my vehicle?


Nice thats a good point..
maybe a section for brands Ford, chevy..ect ect
we could list the car and the problems we encounter..
the staging & sutch that has worked for us..


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## escalade520

awesome post for us noobs!

Thanks!!!


----------



## cheesehead

tr0y_audi0 said:


> Nice thats a good point..
> maybe a section for brands Ford, chevy..ect ect
> we could list the car and the problems we encounter..
> the staging & sutch that has worked for us..


Excellent idea! I have noticed in the new members forum that we have a decent amount of professional installers. I would think we could get a pretty comprehensive list of vehicle specifics.

Waddya think Ant?


----------



## goes2eleven

michaelsil1 said:


> Thanks for mentioning trial and error.


No kidding!
I've had plenty of trial and error, and error, and more error in my setup.

It's all good fun though!


----------



## 96dak

tr0y_audi0 said:


> Nice thats a good point..
> maybe a section for brands Ford, chevy..ect ect
> we could list the car and the problems we encounter..
> the staging & sutch that has worked for us..


+10000000000000. now that would be usefull. it could be usefull for everyone.


----------



## Bass_freak

same


----------



## GlasSman

tr0y_audi0 said:


> Nice thats a good point..
> maybe a section for brands Ford, chevy..ect ect
> we could list the car and the problems we encounter..
> the staging & sutch that has worked for us..


Very good idea. 

if everyone posted a new thread about one problem they've encountered on ONE of their installs.....it would be chock full pretty quick.


----------



## RAAMmat Canada

Great well said, This is what all forums should be about HELPING others giving ones Experience & Knowledge. When I need help at any given subject I ALWAYS go to Forums. If you're going to paint a car you need to prep it first, same goes to Installing a New Sound System in your vechile. Preparation is EXTREMELY Important. Remember Knowledge is POWER Give it Freely!!

Dave
RAAMmat Canada


----------



## BoomHz

Been workin too much

I love this site 

The way you guys are willing to communicate these issues so openly, without the tilt towards negativity, will only make it better.....


----------



## npdang

The icon test is up in the review forum.


----------



## Aaron Clinton

npdang said:


> The icon test is up in the review forum.


*Thank you for doing the review.*


----------



## Oliver

Nice !!

Thanx NP !


----------



## ANT

****..

Sorry guys.I took the last 10 replies and tried to move them in to a different topic. They were disucssing the problems with the slow server time.I ended up deleing them rather than moving them

I appologize.

ANT


----------



## Oliver

DIYMA said:


> ****..
> 
> Sorry guys.I took the last 10 replies and tried to move them in to a different topic. They were disucssing the problems with the slow server time.I ended up deleing them rather than moving them
> 
> I appologize.
> 
> ANT


Apology accepted [**** happens], now can you attempt to move all of "A$$HOLE'S" posts


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## its_bacon12

I feel as if I have been posting too much even.. about 500 in about 8 months. I can't tell you how many time I've just sat here going through countless reviews, driver comparison threads over and over just to get best driver for my planned application. I love this forum, I hope it doesn't get like the others - if it does, there should be some kind of strict enforcement to keep it from getting like them.


----------



## PaulD

I don't post on here much either but I agree that people that are willing to help is what makes a forum great.


----------



## captainobvious

First off, let me say that this site has been an excellent source of info and there are a bunch of very nice and helpful people here.That being said, I've got to say that some of the posts in this thread were a bit disappointing. We have all been newbs at something at one time or another, INCLUDING car audio. And getting to the point that we are at now required reading, advice, time, and trial/error. I remember teaching myself how to install my first system and head unit years ago before I utilized wiring harnesses. I was out there with a DMM testing all of my wires and seeing how things worked.
One of the dissapointing things with some of these posts is that the inexperienced people who have vague questions are seen more of as a nuisance, evidenced by some of the above posts. While it IS tiring to answer the same questions over and over, the above poster (PaulD) said it very well- what makes a forum GREAT is the willingness of its members to help each other achieve their goals.
So in order to help put one foot forward in the right direction, here are a few recommendations that will make both the veterans and the newbs lives a bit easier:
-A BEGINNERS section that we can sticky invaluable info for newcomers and separate some of the frequently asked questions from the more advanced forums. Then those members who are willing to help out with those types of questions can do so, and those who are not dont have to deal with them. I'd love to see some stickied topics in there on the essentials- "The big 3", where to start if you want to build a nice SQ system (environmental considerations, driver placement advantages/disadvantages, best practice installation techniques, etc) acoustic/vibration dampening basics FAQ, etc.

As stated above, the search function gets you bits and pieces and can certainly help, But all out FAQ's and guides for the things listed above should be highly visible and accessible to the newb.

For reference, here's a sticky from Bob in the general section:
_"General Audio
General Audio was designed to be a hangout place for everyday audio questions. Here is a short list of examples for what type of threads should be posted here...
*which sub is better
which amp should I use
"vs" threads
what wire size...?**basic product questions
COTS (commercial off the shelf) passive questions
begginers how to go active questions"[/*I]

I ask you this: What is more helpful to a newb, this example of questions to ask or several stickies that give them the info above and INFORM them so that they can make those decisions on their own?

(This is not a shot at you Bob, and no offense intended, just trying to make a point for those that complain about the content of newer threads.)


If the purpose is to Do It Yourself, you need an educational reference point. Im not a mechanical or electrical engineer and im quite sure many on the site arent. Newcomers and the inexperienced alike need direction. So guides to explain some of the above topics would be VERY helpful to newbs to understand not just what they should be looking to do/install, but WHY. If you want the repeated "whats better X or Y" questions to cease you need to educate your newb brethren.

Lastly, the product reviews/tests are a TERRIFIC resource of the site, and one of the main reasons I was attracted to the site initially. I really hope that they are continued. I realize that is a big work load for one or two individuals, and can be costly. While I dont have the testing equipment or expertise to assist in that manner, I think many of us including myself would have no problem sending in a few bucks from time to time to help the cause. 

from the main page:

Welcome to Diy Mobile Audio!

"Diy Mobile Audio is home to the do-it-yourself sound quality enthusiast looking for the latest product reviews and install tips. Come visit our forums and find out all about the advantages of DIY car audio." 



Thanks to those of you who have assisted me thus far. Your help is greatly appreciated._


----------



## 60ampfuse

I need one post to start a new thread.


----------



## robolt

I also need one post to start a thread.
I have been doing a lot a reading on this forum and finally ready to try and make an intelligent post.


----------



## fritoxtreme

nice


----------



## rrfbfan

what a wealth of information this forum is


----------



## sick02sentra

yepp, 1st post! w00t w00t


----------



## LCat

Cool


----------



## natisfynest

intresting


----------



## mrbashfo

This was very helpful info for people who are new to the audio world =p


----------



## Antics

Nice message, I'm new to the whole Car Audio world.


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## thematrimix

Getting beck into the car audio trying to build up my 06 Mustang and having fun. Hope to get a ton of info from this site.


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## gnarlyskater4000

wow...this is so true, i cant tell you how many people dont know this....i didnt for awhile....ive redone my car audio many times...many....still havent gotten it right....thats why i have came here...for help and advice...and to help other out with my limited knowlage..lol


----------



## 08avy

trying to post a reply in classifieds and i get a message that i have to post a new thread before i can reply to one. came to this forum and it says i have to reply before i can make a new thread, so here's my reply. hopefully now i can reply to a classified i was looking at.


----------



## thematrimix

08avy said:


> trying to post a reply in classifieds and i get a message that i have to post a new thread before i can reply to one. came to this forum and it says i have to reply before i can make a new thread, so here's my reply. hopefully now i can reply to a classified i was looking at.


O man it is easy. Go to forums and start looking at stuff that interest you and post. You will get to 30 40 super quick. I have only been on here like 2 mo. and I like this forum. Good place.


----------



## bunga

Well I'm taking the plunge here as well!


----------



## jwth2005

First post thanks for the Info


----------



## djl75

very good post


----------



## jvo73tii

Love this site and all the information it has to offer! Thanks.


----------



## b2okane

This was very helpful info for people who are new to the audio world =p


----------



## theonecalledtodd

tons of info on this site.


----------



## juangringo

my first post.

Hopefully now I can reply to others


----------



## fst96se

juangringo said:


> my first post.
> 
> Hopefully now I can reply to others


Mine too! Now I can see the classifieds!


----------



## tarman

Great post! Has made me plant my foots on the floor.


----------



## Merzbow

The most important takeaway is that you don't need the best equipment. You can get 98% of the way there at a fraction of the cost. I'm about to do a new build on my car for 1/5 the price of my first build, but I expect the result to be substantially better because I know what matters and what doesn't.


----------



## CHH777

We were all newcomers at one time.

Welcome!


----------



## dsauce16

thanks for the info.. I don't think many novice car audio people take this into account when building a system..myself included. wish i had someone to show me how its done.


----------



## jrs1006

wow. how did I miss this thread. Everyone is so right about car audio in general. I have been building, designing, taking apart, putting back together car audio for a like almost 20 years and if I didn't try it what good was it. I buy drivers all the time just to see how they sound. Just for sh*** and giggles if you will. I have even learned so much from this site. And to you all thank you. For those that want to just get one right answer the real anser is there is not one. Do what you think is right for your car. if it doesn't work just sell and start over. I just got a pair of wideband dayton 4" units and have been playing around with them and I have to say for spending less than $100 they are the warmest sounding speakers I have heard. Now its time to put in. I will try on axis and off axis tweeter close and tweet far, 5.25" or 6" mid-bass. I guess I will just have to see.


----------



## idodvrc

Great post! Trial and error is often the way to go. Unfortunately, it can also get expensive. The good thing is that when you are done, you will (hopefully) have what is great for you.


----------



## drexel

this is excellent knowledge. thank u!


----------



## porog

Good day from Russia!


----------



## taligent

Good info and intro to this forum - thanks!


----------



## devinmcfarlin

good stuff


----------



## mcoley1973

I am new to all of this but my daughter recently bought me a new car stereo. It’s just a cheap Dual AV CD/receiver from Wal-Mart. I am not very inclined in this stuff, but I am trying to install the stereo myself in my 2001Mitsubishi Eclipse. I purchased the wiring harnesses and they make sense to me. But I have one factory plug that doesn’t have a harness, or it doesn't seem to have a place on the new stereo. It is sort of shaped like it would hold a Phone jack. It has four wires going to it. It doesn't’ fit into any of the harnesses that came with the adapter pack I bought. Any ideas?


----------



## Chaos

This is not really the place for this post, but if the aftermarket radio works without the extra plug then just leave it disconnected. Otherwise, you may need a different adapter.


----------



## ssavage

Thank you for all the invaluable info on this forum, I hope to continually be enlightened on DIYMA!


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## AlexSTP

Greetings! 
All the best!


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## Jc507jc

Thanks.


----------



## JamesCC

Thank you for tip #2! My initial assumption was to just pick one of the high customer rated speakers available, buy that, and everything will be fine.

It seems I need more experimenting and research.


----------



## drew.martinez

thanks


----------



## 1GS3-2JZ-nATX

Daishi said:


> MiniVan and FoxPro hit the nail on the head. When I first came here I spent my first 6 months just reading, searching and hunting through the wealth of knowledge that was here and being posted everyday. I learned a ton about using home audio drivers, how to do proper install techniques, what most of the measurement values we see on stuff actually meant etc...Now it's becoming just another standard issue car audio forum where the same stuff that is spouted everywhere is now showing up here. It's not about cheap amazing drivers, but about expensive speakers, amps and the like. I'm not opposed to those things, so please don't get me wrong, but I love learning about the cheaper options to help those who DON'T have a huge budget.


Now see I guess this is where it gets weird because I recently got booted off a site NOT UNLIKE this one for getting hot under the collar after being the target of reckless condescention all because I asked if there were any suggestions for an inexpensive yet good mid bass driver… Believe me that wasn't the welcome I wanted but it's what I got. 
I'm honestly hoping that he was one of the outsider jack asses you speak of and I'm right to be giving it another shot. 

So since then I've talked to a speaker designer and decided to buy what he has because he's standing behind it and I met him on another forum. I think lots of you guys probably got a ton of **** I'd love to talk about and find out about you and your projects etc. I just think it's easier when we think about what we're typing. y'all had some good points too btw!! and I'm technically new here!!

thanks guys!


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## MikeNEPA

Awesome post - thanks


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## oabeieo

This thread OP has just nailed it with 3 points that sum exacting his argument down and it is exactly right. Talk about years of struggles in a nutshell


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## Hillbilly SQ

I really do feel like this forum has made that wrong turn down the road of elitism. It can appear that this hobby is a rich man's game but couldn't be further from the truth in 2019. Sometimes I think certain people are competing with each other to see who can spend the most money on their car stereo. I hope others will join the push to get this forum back to the place it once was. Yes there are expensive products that are worth the coin but there are way more that aren't. We used to be all about finding the stuff that performed way above their price point. I guess this place still does that to some degree but not like it used to.


----------



## chithead

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I really do feel like this forum has made that wrong turn down the road of elitism. It can appear that this hobby is a rich man's game but couldn't be further from the truth in 2019. Sometimes I think certain people are competing with each other to see who can spend the most money on their car stereo. I hope others will join the push to get this forum back to the place it once was. Yes there are expensive products that are worth the coin but there are way more that aren't. We used to be all about finding the stuff that performed way above their price point. I guess this place still does that to some degree but not like it used to.


Wait wait wait... are you suggesting that a DIY forum, should be geared towards those that DIY?


----------



## rob feature

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I really do feel like this forum has made that wrong turn down the road of elitism. It can appear that this hobby is a rich man's game but couldn't be further from the truth in 2019. Sometimes I think certain people are competing with each other to see who can spend the most money on their car stereo. I hope others will join the push to get this forum back to the place it once was. Yes there are expensive products that are worth the coin but there are way more that aren't. We used to be all about finding the stuff that performed way above their price point. I guess this place still does that to some degree but not like it used to.


Glad someone said it. The DIY part has been lost on many.


----------



## Grinder

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I really do feel like this forum has made that wrong turn down the road of elitism. It can appear that this hobby is a rich man's game but couldn't be further from the truth in 2019. Sometimes I think certain people are competing with each other to see who can spend the most money on their car stereo. I hope others will join the push to get this forum back to the place it once was. Yes there are expensive products that are worth the coin but there are way more that aren't. We used to be all about finding the stuff that performed way above their price point. I guess this place still does that to some degree but not like it used to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjxbrBYauLU


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

rob feature said:


> Glad someone said it. The DIY part has been lost on many.


Yeah, I've noticed this a lot the past few years. It saddens me that some people on this forum don't do their own install OR their own tune. I get the fact that a lot of people don't have the time to put into learning and/or they don't want to risk damaging a vehicle they paid a lot of money for. That's not what this forum used to be about though. It used to be about learning to build a great sounding system with your own hands. One thing I can say about my system is I did the best I could with my skillset and budget. And it sounds pretty damn good too

Do
It
Yourself
Mobile 
Audio
!!!


----------



## ErinH

I think the real problem with this forum and community isn't who DIYs their own system but it's the people who have an attitude for any reason. I know folks who full-bore DIY and I know folks who have a 'turn-key' install. Out of each of those categories you have people who are knowledgeable and helpful and you also have people who are elitist and arrogant. Both categories. 

It's mind boggling to me that we would argue over who is "more DIY". Why not, instead, just continue to help who asks for help where we can and not worry ourselves with other peoples' choices and motives? Guess that's just the state of society, though... people more concerned with diminishing others' achievements rather than contributing something useful to the community. That's what the message should be about. Not bragging on ourselves because we slapped some 6.5's in a door and duct taped a tweeter to a sail OR bragging on ourselves because we paid someone a lot of money to do an install. And it certainly shouldn't be about making others feel like they don't belong in the hobby because they didn't do things the way you would have done them. It's that kind of attitude that we don't need. Truth is, some people don't need to be DIY'ing and others are just throwing money away on stuff that isn't necessary. We all have our faults. 


FWIW, I plan to have nearly all my entire install. Not because I can't. But because a) I don't have the free time I once did and b) I don't want to drive around with a hack job install for years. That's me. Those are my reasons. I don't criticize others who choose to install their own stuff and it looks and/or sounds terrible (plenty of that to go around). And I don't go out of my way to downplay someone's system if it looks/sounds good because they didn't do anything themselves (plenty of that to go around). I think building yourself up by knocking others down is a bad look. It's a small community... who knows... one day you may need help from them (or you may have asked them for help numerous times in the past). Or, heck, they may just throw a big get-together every year and they see your posts and think "wow, that's kind of messed up" and you have to deal with that when you message them and say "hey, dude, what's your address, I'm coming to your meet!". 

This hobby should be less about being better than someone and be more about helping each other achieve our goals and being happy for the ones we call friends. Ironically, competitors are the ones that seem to abide by this the most. Truly. *shrugs*


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I totally get what you're saying Erin and I know I was being a little arrogant in my post. Just letting a skeleton out of the closet there. And I agree, there are people who shouldn't be doing their own install (me included at times)If people don't like someone because they're being honest in their posts that's on them.


----------



## thedynoguy

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Yeah, I've noticed this a lot the past few years. It saddens me that some people on this forum don't do their own install OR their own tune. I get the fact that a lot of people don't have the time to put into learning and/or they don't want to risk damaging a vehicle they paid a lot of money for. That's not what this forum used to be about though. It used to be about learning to build a great sounding system with your own hands. One thing I can say about my system is I did the best I could with my skillset and budget. And it sounds pretty damn good too
> 
> Do
> It
> Yourself
> Mobile
> Audio
> !!!


I've always done all of my own car audio installs. But, this last one, I reached out to a friend to do the install of the equipment I specified. He did the install, but I was never happy with the sound quality. So, I've began the task of completely redoing the system. By myself. The journey has begun to say the least. DIYMA!


----------



## dumdum

What Erin said... I love a big flashy install from someone like Steve cook, just as much as I love a basic install with a few clever tweaks from someone doing it in there own garage...

You only have to see Facebook to see a load of idiots taking the mick out of someone for doing something that breaks the ‘rules’... how about gently suggesting a better way to do something instead of just slamming someone for doing there best, no matter what there best is... everyone started somewhere, even Gary Biggs started and did his first show with his midbass out of phase... I dunno... perhaps it’s the way of the world, but I am not sure I like what it’s become I guess.

See the big installs from guys like Steve cook and get ideas, take something positive away from it ??

Ps Erin do you need to pull your install from diyma as someone else is doing it for you ???? hell no! Keep it on so I can feast on more ideas and learn more! ??

Personally I think we need more build threads regardless of home built or cheque book as we can all learn from them!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

dumdum said:


> What Erin said... I love a big flashy install from someone like Steve cook, just as much as I love a basic install with a few clever tweaks from someone doing it in there own garage...
> 
> You only have to see Facebook to see a load of idiots taking the mick out of someone for doing something that breaks the ‘rules’... how about gently suggesting a better way to do something instead of just slamming someone for doing there best, no matter what there best is... everyone started somewhere, even Gary Biggs started and did his first show with his midbass out of phase... I dunno... perhaps it’s the way of the world, but I am not sure I like what it’s become I guess.
> 
> See the big installs from guys like Steve cook and get ideas, take something positive away from it ??
> 
> Ps Erin do you need to pull your install from diyma as someone else is doing it for you ???? hell no! Keep it on so I can feast on more ideas and learn more! ??
> 
> Personally I think we need more build threads regardless of home built or cheque book as we can all learn from them!


This is basically what grinds my gears. People conveniently forgetting that they were once clueless n00bs too. Not too fond of those that think their **** doesn't stink every once in a while. And yes I myself am guilty of that but will never forget where I came from. This is why I feel the ones who have progressed into certified experts need to break away from the inner circle to help those in need because they were once the ones in great need. It's all about getting help and then helping others when you've gotten a good handle on things.


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I really do feel like this forum has made that wrong turn down the road of elitism. It can appear that this hobby is a rich man's game but couldn't be further from the truth in 2019. Sometimes I think certain people are competing with each other to see who can spend the most money on their car stereo. I hope others will join the push to get this forum back to the place it once was. Yes there are expensive products that are worth the coin but there are way more that aren't. We used to be all about finding the stuff that performed way above their price point. I guess this place still does that to some degree but not like it used to.


I get what you are saying, but it's always had some level of elitism, at least since I joined in 2008. The first few times I posted here it absolutely came across as not exactly a welcoming place. There has always been some expensive product that is everyone's favorite for a few months/years. I agree there is less of an aspect of finding those cheaper deals now (I remember the discovering madisound & parts express thanks to this site) but I think that is indicative of society as a whole and a lot of us getting older. 

Newer members (no offense to anyone younger) have grown up in a society of instant gratification, buy something, pay someone to install it and be happy with it. You can see that reflected in how new members often won't even search for an answer to something that has been posted a thousand times, for them it's quicker to start a new topic and 99% of the time someone will post a helpful reply. It's not just here, it's everywhere. For older members, much like Erin posted, it's simply not having enough time to spend hours in your garage with a torn apart car. I have 3 kids and am lucky my wife is supportive of my hobbies, but often if I am more than an hour or two in the garage, it starts to bother me how much it eats into (increasingly more valuable to me as I get older) family time. My oldest son will be 15 next year, before I know it he will be off to college and I don't want to look back and wish I had spent more time with him instead of trying to figure out if a $25 tweeter is better than a $125 tweeter. (I should add, I am really lucky in that he likes to hang out at car audio meets). 

So, for me if someone wants to pay for their install with high end gear, more power to them. Likewise if someone wants to spend hours trying to find those amazing deals. I've met some amazing helpful and generous friends via this site, it's one of the reasons I enjoy hosting a meet (despite how stressful it can be arranging one!!). I don't care if your whole set up cost $100 or $10,000, if we can sit and BS about it while enjoying some music and company then life is good.





Hillbilly SQ said:


> (me included at times)


I know that feeling :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

Agree 100% Erin.


I think (despite the name of the site), that this has *always* been a community centered around learning, sharing information and figuring out how to get better sound from our vehicles- not simply saving bucks and doing it as cheap as you can, on your own. 

In addition, sometimes these things are a natural cycle... Sometimes people learn, advance, have more expendable funds, more/less time, etc and those factors play into what decisions are made about how they approach their systems. I'm a prime example of that. I have done a LOT of diy on my vehicles over the years, and I have also paid skilled installers to execute work for me on multiple occasions. There is nothing wrong with either approach, if that is what works for you. 

There has also been some talk about "expensive gear" and some negative connotations associated with that by some commenting. As we know, price alone does not dictate quality, performance, aesthetics, etc. A superior product in the hands of the ill-informed/experienced will not produce it's optimal results. By the same token a very experienced individual could make lesser performing gear sound outstanding. Combine both outstanding gear and experience and you get an amazing end result. 

While price alone does not dictate the performance, expensive gear is not the problem. Poorly performing overpriced gear is. Let's not get caught up in thinking that the budget Silver Flute is going to be able to do what the Accuton is. There is reasoning behind some of the higher prices for some gear. Engineering, experience, tooling, materials, labor costs, economies of scale and many other factors. In other words, scoffing at "expensive gear" or those who purchase it is not productive and assumes they are wasting money. I can assure you that there are numerous "expensive" drivers that absolutely warrant their price and are costly _because _they are superior.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

captainobvious said:


> Agree 100% Erin.
> 
> 
> I think (despite the name of the site), that this has *always* been a community centered around learning, sharing information and figuring out how to get better sound from our vehicles- not simply saving bucks and doing it as cheap as you can, on your own.
> 
> In addition, sometimes these things are a natural cycle... Sometimes people learn, advance, have more expendable funds, more/less time, etc and those factors play into what decisions are made about how they approach their systems. I'm a prime example of that. I have done a LOT of diy on my vehicles over the years, and I have also paid skilled installers to execute work for me on multiple occasions. There is nothing wrong with either approach, if that is what works for you.
> 
> There has also been some talk about "expensive gear" and some negative connotations associated with that by some commenting. As we know, price alone does not dictate quality, performance, aesthetics, etc. A superior product in the hands of the ill-informed/experienced will not produce it's optimal results. By the same token a very experienced individual could make lesser performing gear sound outstanding. Combine both outstanding gear and experience and you get an amazing end result.
> 
> While price alone does not dictate the performance, expensive gear is not the problem. Poorly performing overpriced gear is. Let's not get caught up in thinking that the budget Silver Flute is going to be able to do what the Accuton is. There is reasoning behind some of the higher prices for some gear. Engineering, experience, tooling, materials, labor costs, economies of scale and many other factors. In other words, scoffing at "expensive gear" or those who purchase it is not productive and assumes they are wasting money. I can assure you that there are numerous "expensive" drivers that absolutely warrant their price and are costly _because _they are superior.


Well said. And I agree that there is a ton of gear that warrants the price tag. I hope you don't feel like I was scoffing at expensive gear since I mentioned it. It's all about weeding through the crap with inflated price tags to find the stuff worth the price. At the same time there is less expensive gear that are true diamonds on the rough.


----------



## captainobvious

Not singling anyone out Chris, no 


I have seen posts though questioning why people would spend "x" thousands on their fancy system when "y" cheap brands could make great sound and the connotations in posts like that is that those people spending the money are foolish. 

It's all relative. If that is what gets them the satisfaction with their system, perfect. If someone else is fulfilled by achieving their goal with a low cost solution- that's great too. The point is that we are all here enjoying the same hobby regardless of our means, goals and approaches and hopefully continuing to create an open forum for discussion, learning and fellowship free from judgement.


----------



## ErinH

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I totally get what you're saying Erin and I know I was being a little arrogant in my post. Just letting a skeleton out of the closet there. And I agree, there are people who shouldn't be doing their own install (me included at times)If people don't like someone because they're being honest in their posts that's on them.


I get it. You’re being honest. No skin off my back. And you’re not upsetting me. I just don’t see the benefit in letting that stuff bother you. Seems like wasted energy. I see things in build logs or in-person all the time that make me go “huh?”. But that’s about it. At the end of the day, I’d rather have people as friends than try to make them feel less-than because I didn’t agree with a choice they made. If they enjoy the system, why is it incumbent upon me to be the one that tells them otherwise? And this isn’t even about DIY vs Pro. There are things in the audio circle that I just don’t like from both camps. 

I mean, let’s be real, you have had 4, maybe 5 cars since I’ve known you. In that time, I’ve had a paid-for car for the last 10 years. At $300/month * 12 months * 10 years that’s $36k. If I take $3k of that to pay someone for an install I can live with and enjoy and not have to take time away from my family to have it then I’ve got no issue doing that. And that’s not accounting for the cost I’d pay for multiple re-installs because I wasn’t happy with the way I did it the first, second, third, fourth… time. Are you really going to see my build log and think “Erin didn’t DIY his new car so he shouldn’t be here posting stuff on the forum”? Because that’s kind of what you’re saying. Will you not listen to mine because I didn’t put my own 6.5’s in my door and a dash speaker on my dash? Even though we both know I’m capable of doing it (granted, nowhere near as well as someone I’m paying to make it look good )? What about our mutual friends who we both know are always willing to demo your system and provide feedback? See what I mean here?



dumdum said:


> Personally I think we need more build threads regardless of home built or cheque book as we can all learn from them!


No doubt! I love seeing some of the incredible work of others. Even though I know I could never achieve it. Whether it be a flashy trunk or an understated but well thought out amp rack.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> This is basically what grinds my gears. People conveniently forgetting that they were once clueless n00bs too. Not too fond of those that think their **** doesn't stink every once in a while. And yes I myself am guilty of that but will never forget where I came from. This is why I feel the ones who have progressed into certified experts need to break away from the inner circle to help those in need because they were once the ones in great need. It's all about getting help and then helping others when you've gotten a good handle on things.


Chris, I know, in large part, the same people you do. We go to the same meets and are part of similar discussions on the forum. But I can’t think of who you’d be talking about here. All the guys I know are always willing to help when asked. If you’re talking about how certain people tend to be part of an inner circle then consider this: they are close friends and at meets we tend to gather with our closer friends and with an attitude like you’re displaying here, can you blame someone for not necessarily wanting to come and make themselves part of your circle? Someone with a ‘turn-key’ install reading this may automatically assume you don’t want anything to do with them at a meet and then wind up making themselves part of another circle. 

And just to clear the air, I know you can’t be talking about me because I always help you out when you ask either at a meet or via PM. 

But if you’re not going to name names then here’s how I feel about it: if you have someone specifically doing this then talk to them about it. What good does it yield to come on a forum and talk passively about them? If you want to talk about it to your friends about some bozo in private that’s fine. But I don’t see a benefit in doing it publicly if you’re not going to talk to them personally to try to change it. Moreso, if it’s someone you’d consider a friend. It sure would suck to lose a friend because you made some off-handed comment about them rather than tell them directly. But, I guess, if you’re talking about them behind their back then they probably weren’t your friend anyway… which makes you wonder why you’d spend that energy on them. If you talk it out and you still don’t like them then that’s it and you move on. We don’t all have to be chums. I just don’t see the point in being upset over the way other people choose to do things… especially in car audio where their choice doesn’t affect us.


----------



## ErinH

My point with all of this is simply:
There’s no reason that we should exclude others simply because we don’t agree with a choice they made. In part, that seems narcissistic (because, of the it’s our way or the highway attitude) and in part it seems pretty short-sighted because you don’t know what they may bring to the table. 

I hate to see the community divided by attitudes as simple as “DIYr” vs “Pro”. I’m friends with both. I also know total a-holes in both categories. I wish I had “pro” skills but when funds don’t permit I’ll be a DIYr. It seems legitimately sad that that would be a deterrent from making friends here.


----------



## ErinH

naiku said:


> I get what you are saying, but it's always had some level of elitism, at least since I joined in 2008. The first few times I posted here it absolutely came across as not exactly a welcoming place.


You bring up an _excellent _point, Ian. Back in the very early days this site was completely elitist but from the DIYrs. Those dudes didn’t want to see a professional install. But were content to show their hack-job installs and make fun of the pros. I never understood that mentality. I couldn’t afford to pay someone to do work for me but I sure wasn’t going to go out of my way to make fun of it because I (and nearly all the others back then) could never do what those pros were doing. I was glad when some of those dudes left. The last thing they needed to be doing was giving anyone advice, anyway.


----------



## chithead




----------



## ErinH

naiku said:


> but often if I am more than an hour or two in the garage, it starts to bother me how much it eats into (increasingly more valuable to me as I get older) family time.





captainobvious said:


> In addition, sometimes these things are a natural cycle... Sometimes people learn, advance, have more expendable funds, more/less time, etc and those factors play into what decisions are made about how they approach their systems. I'm a prime example of that. I have done a LOT of diy on my vehicles over the years, and I have also paid skilled installers to execute work for me on multiple occasions.


Bingo. Ten years ago my life was a lot different and I had a lot more free time. I don’t have that luxury anymore. Things are much different for me now. Not only is my free time diminished but so has my desire to mess with this stuff. With my daughter’s health issues, the past couple years have been trying and have stressed to me how important time with her is. I think back to the literally hundreds of hours I put in testing drivers for this website and my site when she was a toddler. And I mean _hundreds _of hours. And, though it was beneficial for me and others, I’d rather have that time back. She’ll be a teenager before I know it and won’t want to spend time with me. And on top of this, my wife works weekends. Now that I’ve got the means to pay someone to help me with my install I’ll gladly pay them and spend that time with my family.


----------



## I800C0LLECT

I'll toss in that I love the DIY side of this place. I'll also admit that I don't have the time to devote to my installs. I haven't found a fabricator I would be happy with but if so, I would be passing money to him 

Luckily, I did find Andy's audiofrog products and I do prescribe to his approaches. However, I found that after the fact and many many changes to my vehicles since 2007. I don't mind paying extra that days for his products but admittedly, I wouldn't have been able to do that without the experience and knowledge gained from the forums. It's an easier pill to swallow now.

However, I've never felt up to task in delineating my own thought processes. So I always found it easier to link to the multitudes of information already on the site. Truth be told, I found all my answers for 2 years before I ever signed up to finally introduce myself and ask a question. I was very intimidated before I ever received a response.

We have such a high level of aptitude in this community. It's absolutely amazing. I still read more than I actually type to this day.

I think one of the biggest issues in being a new member is getting past the fact that everybody has so much to offer and it's easy to be inundated with information. It's a lot for a new member to handle.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


----------



## I800C0LLECT

+1 on family time comes first these days 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ErinH said:


> I get it. You’re being honest. No skin off my back. And you’re not upsetting me. I just don’t see the benefit in letting that stuff bother you. Seems like wasted energy. I see things in build logs or in-person all the time that make me go “huh?”. But that’s about it. At the end of the day, I’d rather have people as friends than try to make them feel less-than because I didn’t agree with a choice they made. If they enjoy the system, why is it incumbent upon me to be the one that tells them otherwise? And this isn’t even about DIY vs Pro. There are things in the audio circle that I just don’t like from both camps.
> 
> I mean, let’s be real, you have had 4, maybe 5 cars since I’ve known you. In that time, I’ve had a paid-for car for the last 10 years. At $300/month * 12 months * 10 years that’s $36k. If I take $3k of that to pay someone for an install I can live with and enjoy and not have to take time away from my family to have it then I’ve got no issue doing that. And that’s not accounting for the cost I’d pay for multiple re-installs because I wasn’t happy with the way I did it the first, second, third, fourth… time. Are you really going to see my build log and think “Erin didn’t DIY his new car so he shouldn’t be here posting stuff on the forum”? Because that’s kind of what you’re saying. Will you not listen to mine because I didn’t put my own 6.5’s in my door and a dash speaker on my dash? Even though we both know I’m capable of doing it (granted, nowhere near as well as someone I’m paying to make it look good )? What about our mutual friends who we both know are always willing to demo your system and provide feedback? See what I mean here?
> 
> 
> No doubt! I love seeing some of the incredible work of others. Even though I know I could never achieve it. Whether it be a flashy trunk or an understated but well thought out amp rack.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, I know, in large part, the same people you do. We go to the same meets and are part of similar discussions on the forum. But I can’t think of who you’d be talking about here. All the guys I know are always willing to help when asked. If you’re talking about how certain people tend to be part of an inner circle then consider this: they are close friends and at meets we tend to gather with our closer friends and with an attitude like you’re displaying here, can you blame someone for not necessarily wanting to come and make themselves part of your circle? Someone with a ‘turn-key’ install reading this may automatically assume you don’t want anything to do with them at a meet and then wind up making themselves part of another circle.
> 
> And just to clear the air, I know you can’t be talking about me because I always help you out when you ask either at a meet or via PM.
> 
> But if you’re not going to name names then here’s how I feel about it: if you have someone specifically doing this then talk to them about it. What good does it yield to come on a forum and talk passively about them? If you want to talk about it to your friends about some bozo in private that’s fine. But I don’t see a benefit in doing it publicly if you’re not going to talk to them personally to try to change it. Moreso, if it’s someone you’d consider a friend. It sure would suck to lose a friend because you made some off-handed comment about them rather than tell them directly. But, I guess, if you’re talking about them behind their back then they probably weren’t your friend anyway… which makes you wonder why you’d spend that energy on them. If you talk it out and you still don’t like them then that’s it and you move on. We don’t all have to be chums. I just don’t see the point in being upset over the way other people choose to do things… especially in car audio where their choice doesn’t affect us.


I TOTALLY see the error of my ways now. Hopefully no bridges were burned in the process. Truth be told I think it's time for me to take a break from showing my personality on here. My tone and intent tends to get lost in text and makes me look like an ass. The people who know me know I'm genuinely a good person.


----------



## Grinder




----------



## rob feature

I personally never thought what I (or Hillbilly) posted would come across as elitism or exclusive. DIY to me has always meant inclusive more than anything as it allows entry into ventures that might not be otherwise available to someone. I guess I just have a more idealistic view of what a DIY site looks like. Then again, I didn't build my amps or speakers or any of that so in a sense I'm not really DIYing either. Either way, some great points were made. And yes, it is sort of a petty gripe - especially considering the small number of such resources.


----------



## oabeieo

I had no idea this many comments on one day.


Well I’m an elitist! With my Honda Fit (j.k.) (the bmw is too beggar for my blood) why drive a Mercedes when you can drive a fit! 75whp and a 1.5L engine that goes 70mph! 0-60in only 5min and 26sec. Lol 


Okay okay okay, enough jokin around . 

So I don’t think anyone’s an elitist, we all have fun and push each other around sometimes and at least I never mean anything by it. I love this place and don’t pay attention to who is elitist or not. I just prowl for some intellect to chew the fat with mostly. And I look at everyone’s build pages (I don’t comment on many of them but I should) I read almost everything that is posted if it’s not noobish. 


Hillbilly I get what your sayin and Captain and Erin and everyone. I can see how all that can be burdensome especially when you’ve made a name for yourself you get held sometimes to a standard that is simply unachievable.

Even tho I install as a living, my car and some is still DIY and I try and help everyone, I’m not always right either but who’s counting. It’s all gravy we love it! 

Brb I got to go polish the fit


----------



## oabeieo

THeres also “other” car audio dot coms or whatnot that have the opposite problem of being elitist. Where you get buba comments on how your install “should be” when it’s straight out of the pawnshop car audio crowd talking. 

So if elitist is what you call it , I am one proud to be one. I would call it knowledgeable, and that’s why I love this place, the ppl are knowledgeable and honestly guys we keep each other on our toes and we keep each other sharp and articulate on knowing the correct approach to a good system. 

And I admit I fire back when I get criticized and it’s usually a week later that it dawns on me that the other person was right the whole time and I was being a big poopoo head. 

There’s some that will post up tge same things for years and never advance an inch in knowledge and some that always have something new to add and shed new light on new ideas and that is what’s best about diyma 

Fwiw, sorry if I’ve ever been jerk 

banks around me that are open


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## ckirocz28

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I really do feel like this forum has made that wrong turn down the road of elitism. It can appear that this hobby is a rich man's game but couldn't be further from the truth in 2019. Sometimes I think certain people are competing with each other to see who can spend the most money on their car stereo. I hope others will join the push to get this forum back to the place it once was. Yes there are expensive products that are worth the coin but there are way more that aren't. We used to be all about finding the stuff that performed way above their price point. I guess this place still does that to some degree but not like it used to.


No, really?! Yeah, I see it, too. Focal Utopia M, anyone? $20,000 install, anyone?


----------



## ckirocz28

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I totally get what you're saying Erin and I know I was being a little arrogant in my post. Just letting a skeleton out of the closet there. And I agree, there are people who shouldn't be doing their own install (me included at times)If people don't like someone because they're being honest in their posts that's on them.


You weren't being arrogant at all, but ErinH is also correct. I can't fault someone paying for an install, because I pay someone to change my oil, because I don't want to do it. Some of the threads here absolutely skew towards elitist penis measuring, though.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

oabeieo said:


> THeres also “other” car audio dot coms or whatnot that have the opposite problem of being elitist. Where you get buba comments on how your install “should be” when it’s straight out of the pawnshop car audio crowd talking.
> 
> So if elitist is what you call it , I am one proud to be one. I would call it knowledgeable, and that’s why I love this place, the ppl are knowledgeable and honestly guys we keep each other on our toes and we keep each other sharp and articulate on knowing the correct approach to a good system.
> 
> And I admit I fire back when I get criticized and it’s usually a week later that it dawns on me that the other person was right the whole time and I was being a big poopoo head.
> 
> There’s some that will post up tge same things for years and never advance an inch in knowledge and some that always have something new to add and shed new light on new ideas and that is what’s best about diyma
> 
> Fwiw, sorry if I’ve ever been jerk
> 
> banks around me that are open


Well said. That's what makes this place so great. If we listen to each other and work together we'll be lead down the right path eventually. Some of us just have a strange way of showing we care. My grandpa was that way and my dad told me I'm a lot like him. Very sincere and VERY direct in making sure his people were taken care of. Now at work I'm not shy about saying that I'm an a$$hole who cares and I'm respected for it. You have to be that way to keep from being a doormat. Life in general has made me a "hard" person and have to remind myself that others might not be the same way. This forum and the meets I go to have actually been good therapy for my shortcomings. A couple people on here have gotten the full story in private but not posting it here. I wouldn't wish said shortcomings on my worst enemy though.


----------



## oabeieo

ckirocz28 said:


> No, really?! Yeah, I see it, too. Focal Utopia M, anyone? $20,000 install, anyone?


I have a set of utopia M 3ways and they are bad assss!!!!


(Sorry had to throw that in) 
Lol


No but really , like so amazing so much detail .


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## BigAl205

In my opinion, "DIY" has different levels. On one end of the spectrum, you have those who had rather do everything themselves, with the least expensive alternatives they could find. They might enjoy getting their hands dirty, trying something new and challenging...or it might be due to financial constraints. On the other end, you have those who do research and know what they want, but had rather pay somebody else to do the labor due to personal reasons, or just the lack of ability. On the far end of the spectrum, you have those who don't know what they want...they just drop off the car, a blank check, and tell the installer "surprise me".

The bottom line is, DIY is about knowledge, and not necessarily action.

Maybe we should change the site to DIYIYRWTMA- Do It Yourself If You Really Want To Mobile Audio


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## ckirocz28

BigAl205 said:


> DIYIYRWTMA- Do It Yourself If You Really Want To Mobile Audio


Nice!


----------



## oabeieo

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Well said. That's what makes this place so great. If we listen to each other and work together we'll be lead down the right path eventually. Some of us just have a strange way of showing we care. My grandpa was that way and my dad told me I'm a lot like him. Very sincere and VERY direct in making sure his people were taken care of. Now at work I'm not shy about saying that I'm an a$$hole who cares and I'm respected for it. You have to be that way to keep from being a doormat. Life in general has made me a "hard" person and have to remind myself that others might not be the same way. This forum and the meets I go to have actually been good therapy for my shortcomings. A couple people on here have gotten the full story in private but not posting it here. I wouldn't wish said shortcomings on my worst enemy though.




I am the same exact way. Life has a way of doing that to us men. Especially working Father's. I am such a NO-Nonsense person. Socially I tend to take things seriously and have to work at being a goofball for my own therapy. 
It’s the nonsense that disturbs me and makes the bad side come out. (Things that just aren’t funny or intentional hurt towards ppl..etc ) and like I says it usually takes me a week after I cow out and realize I’m guilty for the same dam thing


----------



## oabeieo

BigAl205 said:


> In my opinion, "DIY" has different levels. On one end of the spectrum, you have those who had rather do everything themselves, with the least expensive alternatives they could find. They might enjoy getting their hands dirty, trying something new and challenging...or it might be due to financial constraints. On the other end, you have those who do research and know what they want, but had rather pay somebody else to do the labor due to personal reasons, or just the lack of ability. On the far end of the spectrum, you have those who don't know what they want...they just drop off the car, a blank check, and tell the installer "surprise me".
> 
> The bottom line is, DIY is about knowledge, and not necessarily action.
> 
> Maybe we should change the site to DIYIYRWTMA- Do It Yourself If You Really Want To Mobile Audio




Like TEOFTWKATOI (the end of the world as we know it ) .



Edit: wow I botched that one ...lol


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

BigAl205 said:


> The bottom line is, DIY is about knowledge, and not necessarily action.


This right here is the point I've been trying to get across but butchered the hell out of it which in turn caused me to look like a bigger ass than I really am. I get the fact that a lot of people really don't want to diy their own install for one reason or the other but knowledge is power. How many people have we seen come on here telling about the install they payed WAY too much for because they put too much trust in the installer because they didn't do their homework first? And then on the tune, how does one know the "pro" actually knows what they're doing? Most of us regulars on here have a good list of known good tuners and installers around the country but there are far more that are hacks. I guess as long as the one paying is happy that's all that matters. I have to be honest, if I had the financial means I would be dropping my vehicle off with Steve Cook to go nuts on a mostly stealth install with equipment I choose. I'd still do my own tune though even if it's just to compare it to the one he did and I know he can throw down a good tune.


----------



## chefhow

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Yeah, I've noticed this a lot the past few years. It saddens me that some people on this forum don't do their own install OR their own tune. I get the fact that a lot of people don't have the time to put into learning and/or they don't want to risk damaging a vehicle they paid a lot of money for. That's not what this forum used to be about though. It used to be about learning to build a great sounding system with your own hands. One thing I can say about my system is I did the best I could with my skillset and budget. And it sounds pretty damn good too
> 
> Do
> It
> Yourself
> Mobile
> Audio
> !!!


Chris, as a long time member here I came to learn many years ago that I am not skilled enough and dont have the desire to install my own equipment and would rather pay a professional to do it, much in the same way that someone pays me to cook them a high end meal. 
Can I install all the equipment needed to compete in car audio competition? Yes, do I want to? No.....

I guess I'll go home now and look for someplace else to waste my time......


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

oabeieo said:


> I am the same exact way. Life has a way of doing that to us men. Especially working Father's. I am such a NO-Nonsense person. Socially I tend to take things seriously and have to work at being a goofball for my own therapy.
> It’s the nonsense that disturbs me and makes the bad side come out. (Things that just aren’t funny or intentional hurt towards ppl..etc ) and like I says it usually takes me a week after I cow out and realize I’m guilty for the same dam thing


Me and the no-nonsense guys I work with act like mental patients from time to time to help keep us out of the mental hospital:laugh:And yeah I normally don't realize I was a hypocrite until it dawns on me about a week later then feel terrible. I really do hope those on this forum that I have offended don't take it too personal. 99.9% of the time it's not on purpose. Just gotta let it roll off and not read too deep into the text that you don't know what the tone of the author was.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

chefhow said:


> Chris, as a long time member here I came to learn many years ago that I am not skilled enough and dont have the desire to install my own equipment and would rather pay a professional to do it, much in the same way that someone pays me to cook them a high end meal.
> Can I install all the equipment needed to compete in car audio competition? Yes, do I want to? No.....
> 
> I guess I'll go home now and look for someplace else to waste my time......


But at least you have knowledge about car audioAl summed it up nicely. I was way too harsh yesterday. Let some crap going on here influence my posts on here:blush:


----------



## Grinder




----------



## oabeieo

Hillbilly SQ said:


> But at least you have knowledge about car audioAl summed it up nicely. I was way too harsh yesterday. Let some crap going on here influence my posts on here:blush:




Hey I called Patrick B a pawnshop hack and still trying to figure out a way to apologize. Don’t let anyone here influence anything.

I promised myself back in 2015 I wouldn’t let ppl get to me after a 5day rant 
That had everyone twisted up (where did sqnut go anyway) anyway yeah.


----------



## GEM592

I like diyaudio.com/caraudio whenever I seek a direct, helpful answer from a knowledgeable person to a diy question. The focus is much more on the nuts-and-bolts of project stuff for those who have little use for the social media, who’s who meetup/comp aspects (that’s what Facebook is for) and I always learn what I need to know more efficiently.


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## oabeieo

GEM592 said:


> I like diyaudio.com/caraudio whenever I seek a direct, helpful answer from a knowledgeable person to a diy question. The focus is much more on the nuts-and-bolts of project stuff for those who have little use for the social media, who’s who meetup/comp aspects (that’s what Facebook is for) and I always learn what I need to know more efficiently.




Oh I get it now ...Social media. 

Well. When you been on here for years and years you make friends what better place to share that friendship and common interests. I never thought of this place as Social media, but there is some of that. But honestly it’s our build pages that most of that is done. I call my build page my dark corner when I’m a bad boy and say something that stokes the flames of hell. I’ve also referred it to my room. It’s a place that I can just talk about what I’ve done to my car and if anyone listens and wants to join in that’s even better. Most of the time it’s just me babbling.


----------



## DavidRam

For me, the install is NOT a means to an end... The install is part of the fun and learning experience. Sometimes I wonder if I enjoy the install more than I enjoy the music when it's done! 

Work and family demand a lot of my time, but I think I would go insane if I didn't have those precious hours that I spend in the garage working on projects!

To each his own... Another reason I started doing my own work, is seeing (and experiencing) horrible workmanship from "professional shops."


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## ErinH

DavidRam said:


> For me, the install is NOT a means to an end... The install is part of the fun and learning experience. Sometimes I wonder if I enjoy the install more than I enjoy the music when it's done!
> 
> Work and family demand a lot of my time, but I think I would go insane if I didn't have those precious hours that I spend in the garage working on projects!
> 
> To each his own... Another reason I started doing my own work, is seeing (and experiencing) horrible workmanship from "professional shops."


Man, I totally used to be the same way. It was an outlet for me for years and years. More than that; it was an identity to be honest. But the past couple years that passion waned. It took me a month to swap midbass drivers - which doesn't even require more effort than simply cutting new rings – because I just didn’t want to mess with it. I also spent years testing drivers and spending endless hours posting data to my website and I let that go, too, for the same reasons. For me it’s just burn out. I probably spent ½ of my time for years doing something that was audio related and I don’t do this for a living. I still enjoy going to shows and hanging out with my friends. I still enjoy tinkering. But I know me well enough to know that it takes me forever to complete an install and I know why. So I’m taking a backseat this time and handing the majority of the workload off to someone I trust to do it for me and then I’ll spend my time filling in the gaps and tuning.


----------



## DavidRam

ErinH said:


> Man, I totally used to be the same way. It was an outlet for me for years and years. More than that; it was an identity to be honest. But the past couple years that passion waned. It took me a month to swap midbass drivers - which doesn't even require more effort than simply cutting new rings – because I just didn’t want to mess with it. I also spent years testing drivers and spending endless hours posting data to my website and I let that go, too, for the same reasons. For me it’s just burn out. I probably spent ½ of my time for years doing something that was audio related and I don’t do this for a living. I still enjoy going to shows and hanging out with my friends. I still enjoy tinkering. But I know me well enough to know that it takes me forever to complete an install and I know why. So I’m taking a backseat this time and handing the majority of the workload off to someone I trust to do it for me and then I’ll spend my time filling in the gaps and tuning.


Yeah, I totally get it... Sometimes we grow out of things and/or our interests and circumstances change. 

I work a white collar job, so to speak, but I have always loved to work with my hands to build, fabricate and tinker ESPECIALLY on cars. Maybe it's partially due to my line of work being so unfulfilling and this innate desire I have for a sense of accomplishment. 

Also, it's disgusting to me how poor workmanship is becoming the norm... I even do my own oil changes because, somehow, shops can even **** that one up!  Lol

The audio phase (pun intended) may or mar not pass for me, but the love for all things cars will never.


----------



## ErinH

DavidRam said:


> I even do my own oil changes because, somehow, shops can even **** that one up!  Lol


No joke. I started changing my own oil a few years ago for this very reason; thanks to a dummy at Wal-Mart. I don't do much more in way of car maintenance myself but I do some things like oil and brakes. Oh, and turn signal fluid. :laugh:


----------



## chithead

Same here. Had a shop use an air ratchet on the drain plug, ended up having to take it to the dealer to have them get the plug out. Do all my own oil changes now.


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## ErinH

chithead said:


> Same here. Had a shop use an air ratchet on the drain plug, ended up having to take it to the dealer to have them get the plug out. Do all my own oil changes now.


Wow.

My experience was kind of the opposite. The drain plug wasn't screwed on all the way. Was dripping some oil and found out. I'm guessing the dude hand-tightened it and forgot to tighten it the rest of the way. Maybe he got confused between the filter and the drain plug. :laugh:


----------



## DavidRam

ErinH said:


> No joke. I started changing my own oil a few years ago for this very reason; thanks to a dummy at Wal-Mart. I don't do much more in way of car maintenance myself but I do some things like oil and brakes. Oh, and turn signal fluid. :laugh:


Lol

I have been using Redline oil in all of my vehicles for a while now, so that's another reason I do my own. 

The loose filter, loose drain plug issue happened to me a couple times. One time, a majority of the oil drained out before I caught it!!


----------



## bigbubba

DavidRam said:


> The install is part of the fun and learning experience. Sometimes I wonder if I enjoy the install more than I enjoy the music when it's done!


I have the same view on this except I don't enjoy the music part because I can't tune to save my life. I can half ass it but it never sounded or imaged well at all. That is why I kinda walked away from it the last 2-3 years. I'm wanting to get back into it but the tuning side always depresses me.


----------



## ErinH

bigbubba said:


> I have the same view on this except I don't enjoy the music part because I can't tune to save my life. I can half ass it but it never sounded or imaged well at all. That is why I kinda walked away from it the last 2-3 years. I'm wanting to get back into it but the tuning side always depresses me.


----------



## naiku

DavidRam said:


> I even do my own oil changes because, somehow, shops can even **** that one up!





ErinH said:


> I started changing my own oil a few years ago for this very reason; thanks to a dummy at Wal-Mart.





chithead said:


> Do all my own oil changes now.


Same, oil changes, brakes, suspension within reason etc. if I can figure out how to do it at home then I will, almost every time I go somewhere I ultimately find something wrong... 

Took car to the dealer years back now for a warranty issue, get it back and when I go to change my oil a few weeks later find that they used zip ties to attach the plastic shield under the car, instead of the locking screws that were on there when I dropped it off. At that time I also noticed the engine cover looking crooked, turns out they did not bother re-attaching a bracket that it clips onto. A few months later I found out why.... the tech had dropped the 10mm bolt down into the engine somewhere, instead of getting another bolt and attaching the bracket, they just left it. I found the bolt myself while changing the thermostat. 

Went somewhere to get a job completed that while not difficult on paper, the access to the part that needs replacing is non existent (you have to lay on top of the engine, reach behind it and under the firewall). I get the car back and notice oil leaking from a piece directly above the part that was replaced. Of course, the shop claimed they never removed that part and so it leaking is not their fault (access to the piece I had them replace is made slightly easier by removing the part above it, basically gives you about 1" of room in front of the firewall). 

So, as much as I can do at home I will.


----------



## chithead

Absolutely! Have to do all my own work for the most part though. 

As has been stated here before, I'd love nothing more to let Mark Worrell or Steve Cook have at the truck and go nuts with a beautiful install. But as life happens, it's just me doing what I can, when I can. And quite a few people here help keep that goal obtainable. 

But I did get to put a lift kit on the wife's Jeep a few months back. Let me tell you, having an axle dangling underneath a vehicle while jackstands keep you right on the edge of becoming the next Giles Corey... man. It's like having sekz on a hotel balcony. Or keeping the crossover switch on your amp channels at, "Full Pass" that power your tweeters.


----------



## DavidRam

chithead said:


> Absolutely! Have to do all my own work for the most part though.
> 
> As has been stated here before, I'd love nothing more to let Mark Worrell or Steve Cook have at the truck and go nuts with a beautiful install. But as life happens, it's just me doing what I can, when I can. And quite a few people here help keep that goal obtainable.
> 
> But I did get to put a lift kit on the wife's Jeep a few months back. Let me tell you, having an axle dangling underneath a vehicle while jackstands keep you right on the edge of becoming the next Giles Corey... man. It's like having sekz on a hotel balcony. Or keeping the crossover switch on your amp channels at, "Full Pass" that power your tweeters.



I have had many a driveshaft dangling in my face... Uhh, wait. That doesn't sound right. :laugh:

Seriously, I enjoy suspension work A LOT! It's one of those things that can change the look and feel of a vehicle so much.


----------



## naiku

chithead said:


> But I did get to put a lift kit on the wife's Jeep a few months back. Let me tell you, having an axle dangling underneath a vehicle while jackstands keep you right on the edge of becoming the next Giles Corey.


No idea why, but I am never comfortable with my car on jack stands, no matter how much I make sure to really try and rock the car before taking a wheel off or getting underneath of it, I still don't feel comfortable underneath it. 

If I had space for a lift I'd absolutely get one (I realize lifts can fail). I keep debating getting a Ranger QuickJack though.


----------



## ErinH

You guys talking about this reminded me that I need to get some car ramps. My wife's CR-V is too tall for the floor jack to do any good but still too low for me to comfortably change the oil. It was a pain last time I did it.


----------



## LumbermanSVO

ErinH said:


> Man, I totally used to be the same way. It was an outlet for me for years and years. More than that; it was an identity to be honest. But the past couple years that passion waned. It took me a month to swap midbass drivers - which doesn't even require more effort than simply cutting new rings – because I just didn’t want to mess with it. I also spent years testing drivers and spending endless hours posting data to my website and I let that go, too, for the same reasons. For me it’s just burn out. I probably spent ½ of my time for years doing something that was audio related and I don’t do this for a living. I still enjoy going to shows and hanging out with my friends. I still enjoy tinkering. But I know me well enough to know that it takes me forever to complete an install and I know why. So I’m taking a backseat this time and handing the majority of the workload off to someone I trust to do it for me and then I’ll spend my time filling in the gaps and tuning.


This is why I have a bunch of different hobbies/projects, even if they are all kinda sort related. When I start slowing on one I just bounce to a different thing for awhile. The down side is that some things take forever to make any progress, like my Bronco, but it keeps me from burning out on one specific project. I've burned out on projects and and sold them while still disassembled, taking a huge financial hit.

This strategy also allows me to learn and apply that new knowledge to other ongoing projects.


----------



## tbarber1027

*Re: the diyma message, recommend a good book?*



npdang said:


> Just thought I'd re-iterate for our many new members here, the key to a good sounding car.
> 
> 1. The room/car acoustics will dominate the sound of your system. In order to get the best sound quality possible, focus the majority of your efforts (and budget) on correcting for it either electronically or physically. This includes things like proper driver placement, treatment of enclosures and panels, diffusers or absorptive material, equalization, proper level matching, smooth crossover transitions, time correction, etc.
> 
> 2. Picking the right drivers for the right application is more important than picking *better* drivers. This also includes taking your skill at the above #1 into account. Many times for a beginner, having the best equipment makes no sense as you can achieve a better sounding car much faster and easier with gear that works best with the acoustics of your car, and requires minimal correction. Haphazardly picking the best gear without consideration for your skill at using it, or with how it will work with the rest of the gear you pick, or with how it will work in your car is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> 3. Lastly, experiment! I often see people thinking they can "do it right" the first time. That's not how it works in reality. Anyone with a great sounding system will tell you it takes alot of trial and error to get there. Not only to familiarize yourself with the acoustics of your vehicle and different equipment, but to establish a clear reference of what "good sound" should sound like to you.


--------------
Great advice thank you!
You sound like you are qualified to write a good book on car audio! I bought one recently and it SUCKS! (c) 2005 so I wasn't expecting much.
Could you recommend a good book to help with modern car audio system design?


----------



## oabeieo

ErinH said:


> Man, I totally used to be the same way. It was an outlet for me for years and years. More than that; it was an identity to be honest. But the past couple years that passion waned. It took me a month to swap midbass drivers - which doesn't even require more effort than simply cutting new rings – because I just didn’t want to mess with it. I also spent years testing drivers and spending endless hours posting data to my website and I let that go, too, for the same reasons. For me it’s just burn out. I probably spent ½ of my time for years doing something that was audio related and I don’t do this for a living. I still enjoy going to shows and hanging out with my friends. I still enjoy tinkering. But I know me well enough to know that it takes me forever to complete an install and I know why. So I’m taking a backseat this time and handing the majority of the workload off to someone I trust to do it for me and then I’ll spend my time filling in the gaps and tuning.




This for me is also why my ride isn’t top tier and completely vyniled out and tricked out with a lowered dash.


After installing 10hrs a day for other ppl , I don’t want to do anything to my car: 
The only reason I have any amount of custom work is because I *really* wanted it done. 

If I could just take 60 days off work and still get paid , and still be able to go to the shop and do my car and tell the wife I was “going to work dear” lol 
Oh it would be so sick. 

I only do enough to keep me happy


----------



## oabeieo

LumbermanSVO said:


> This is why I have a bunch of different hobbies/projects, even if they are all kinda sort related. When I start slowing on one I just bounce to a different thing for awhile. The down side is that some things take forever to make any progress, like my Bronco, but it keeps me from burning out on one specific project. I've burned out on projects and and sold them while still disassembled, taking a huge financial hit.
> 
> This strategy also allows me to learn and apply that new knowledge to other ongoing projects.




My buddy Russ has a vw corrado he’s been building for 15 years. 
He just got it runnin. Lol 
Still needs to do another 25 years (at his pace) of stuff.


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