# Dynaudio Premium system in VW CC



## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

New here. Humble audiophile in the home stereo world, but know nothing of car audio. Posted a related question in an older thread.

What would you change with the Dynaudio Premium System? Is it "tuned" for the car, making changes difficult? Sound is a bit shrill, and must adjust eq (treble down, bass down).

I know I like Infinity speakers, if a speaker upgrade is recommended.

Thank you


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## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

subscribed....


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

I've never heard any of the Dyn drivers described as shrill, 1st thing I'd change is the head unit.

Over here you can buy adaptors to link to the OE amp, steering wheel control and fascia and aerial very easily, £100 worth of parts. 

Get the new DEH-80PRS and either get a shop to set it up for you or try the auto EQ and TA yourself-these din't work too well on the previous model, so learning to tune yourself would be advisable.

If you want to stick with an AV stereo the Alpine ICS-X8 has a good built in EQ section and manual TA, the Pioneer AVH-8400BT's EQ is a little less detailed but offers auto EQ with the purchase of a spearate mic.

After that you'd be looking at replacing the OE amp with something with more balls, though IIRC the factory amp is active, so you'd need at least 10ch of amplification...

If you want to keep the stock HU then I'd look at an MS8 or Bit1 and then invest in the 10ch of amplification.

Which Infinity's do you like? Where have you heard them?


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

The Infinitys that I like were either the Kappas or Reference, and I replaced years ago the 6.5" rear speakers in my Honda Accord Coupe with very good results.

I appreciate your detailed answer and will do some research on your comments. I expect I may still have some questions.

Again today I faded to the rear (my preference in listening) and heard something I'd like to improve (somewhat muddy, lack of resolution, harshness). Not extreme, but not good enough of a sound.

Thank you


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm intrigued by the idea of adding an alternate a/v head, but would it really outdo the excellent but somewhat slow to the touch stock navigation -- and really a plug and play including the steering wheel and phone/bluetooth options? And the size is standard?

I'm not used to the idea of DSPs. Seems like bypassing any DSP would be best. Is this possible?

In car audio, maybe a dsp is necessary. In the home stereo world, they are to be avoided.

Open to the ideas mentioned. Any more comments?

Here's approximately what I have:


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

I had that car the last 2 days while our x5 was in the shop. 
first,u can get decent performance with a tune.
Second, did you actually say you faded all the way to the rear? 
I'm not trying to bag on you but these days (and for me all the time) cars are being setup for a sound stage in front as if you were at live performance.
that being said.
What characteristics are u looking to improve?


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## basicxj (Jan 1, 2008)

Does your CC have leather or cloth interior? 

That head unit appears to be the premium RNS-510 navi, and it really is a good sounding source unit when all is set up properly. There may be a setting available through VAG-Com to adjust for leather seating surfaces (that generally tend to reinforce the high frequencies compared to cloth that tends to absorb them) that if enabled may attenuate the higher frequency response for your liking. If the navigation unit was dealer-installed and they forgot to set it up properly or it somehow fell through the cracks, it may be worth investigating.

Dynaudio tends to fall on the "polite sounding" end of the spectrum rather than brash or sharp, especially when compared against the Infinity Reference and Kappa models of recent years . I have the Dynaudio system with the same head unit as illustrated in our Tiguan- the vehicle has been problematic so far, as has the Dynaudio speakers that keep failing in the driver's door for some reason, but I'll say this- it sounds pretty exceptional for an OEM system when you set it up properly and play some quality source material through it (when it works).


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

VW_CC_VR6 said:


> I'm intrigued by the idea of adding an alternate a/v head, but would it really outdo the excellent but somewhat slow to the touch stock navigation -- and really a plug and play including the steering wheel and phone/bluetooth options? And the size is standard?


If you pick a stereo with built in BT you can have almost full functionality-I don't know of any that will function with the BT button on the steering wheel. Other than that minor loss of functionality the aftermarket units will wipe the floor with the OE unit, better EQ, better Nav, better bluetooth (Pioneer AVICs have the best phone book browsing IMO), better ipod/usb (again AVICs are the best IMO), better SQ out of the box. Panels and cables will allow a perfect fit, couple of hours work.



VW_CC_VR6 said:


> I'm not used to the idea of DSPs. Seems like bypassing any DSP would be best. Is this possible?


DSPs are important in cars, factory ones tend to limit the output of drivers to prevent you blowing them, have some SQ aspects but are designed for the average listener. Aftermarket ones offer much, much more and really are the key to getting a great sound when you're sat off centre from your speakers, time alignment and powerful EQs allow you to tailor the sound to your environment and taste. Cars are a much harder environment for audio than homes.

The Infinity speakers you mention would definitely be considered brighter than the Dyns you have, they're good speakers for their price bracket, but not in the same league as the Dyns.

Fading to the rear is an unusual approach; you'll have no sound stage to speak of, image will be none existant and it is generally frowned upon to have rear drivers at all-unless running 5.1/7.1 or you're using some clever processing and tuning to add extra ambiance. Typically I would advise my customers against rear speakers, as unless you can perform the afformentioned processing you're just going to pull your stage to the rear and lose SQ rather than gain it-the only "benefit" is a louder system, which shouldn't be needed with a decent front stage.

As others, with direct experience of the system, have suggested tuning 1st you might want to try that-if you're unfamiliar with the process ask on here for some recommendations for a local shop to do it for you, also speak to VW to see if they can apply a different EQ to the DSP that would suit your tastes more.


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

Great responses, thank you.

I have full leather.

Point taken on fading to the rear.

Yes, I could use guidance on tuning -- I'd like to do this, but have no idea of the approach.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Hmmmm, my reply didn't post. Weird. Anyway, you can replace the HU or everything, nothing in between. The 510 isn't the best sounding HU in the world an gains can be had just by changing it out.


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

So the recommended HU replacement would be the Alpine ICS-X8 to replace the RNS-510 navi?

What are the step to tune the RNS-510 Navi?


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

VW_CC_VR6 said:


> So the recommended HU replacement would be the Alpine ICS-X8 to replace the RNS-510 navi?
> 
> What are the step to tune the RNS-510 Navi?


You need access to a vag.com to chane any of the dsp.
I wouldn't change the deck, you can get good sound out of it 2 ways.
Modding for a digital out (but only helps on cd material)
Or doing a unit like a bit.one or my dve the mosconi dsp 6-8.
Changing the deck can give you some gain but it's not a significant roi like a processor is.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Changing the system configuration with VCDS only changed the Voltage on the outputs. Whether you have an amplified system or not the signal out of the HU is flat. I tried every possible system type with my 510 and could never get rid if this weird echoey vibration in the midrange. Zach heard it too. Swapped the HU and the problem went away.


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

If adding a dsp: is there a way to bypass the existing dsp? Sounds like there isn't, as only the voltage could be changed with VCDS (VAG-COM).

What is the best choice for replacing the HU, and what would I be giving up? I'd like to keep the backup camera and nav capabilities, as well as phone/bluetooth.

Maybe the system is tuned for mp3 (compressed audio). CD's don't sound as good as they should. DVD audio is better, though. I think what I'm hearing could also be described as "echoey".

Iphone 4s not recognized by MDI, but I suppose that's a different thread.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

As far as replacing the 510 NAV Head Unit, I'm fairly certain the only thing you would give up is functionality of the Bluetooth Phone _Steering Wheel buttons_ as previously mentioned by _Baron Groog._ All other steering wheel buttons should function if you chose the Alpine ICS-X8, but you may have to purchase a separate steering wheel control adapter depending on which Head Unit you go with. The steering wheel adapters are usually < $100.

And as _quality_sound_ mentioned, you can change just the head unit out and see how it improves the SQ (you would have to get a Double-Din (DD) fascia/trim panel adapter to mount an aftermarket NAV unit in your dash and the appropriate wiring harnesses, etc.). But if you want to take it further, you are generally talking about replacing the entire system...NAV Source Unit, separate DSP, Amps, and possibly speakers, a subwoofer and appropriate enclosure, along with all of the installation accessories that you'll need. All of this adds up quick! (see below)

The first question should be "How much money are you prepared spend to improve the Sound Quality, and what are your expectations of the completed system (for the amount of money spent)"?

That should help to determine your overall system design and limitations, and help you to choose the appropriate audio components for that particular system design while staying within your budget.

As a reference, have you listened to someone's properly set up high-quality aftermarket system that exhibits excellent tonality and sound-stage placement/imaging, and are you looking to match that experience?

For reference, here's just a quick idea of typical pricing for a complete, well-thought-out and high-quality aftermarket system:

- NAV or CD Source Unit w/BT & back-up cam capability: $600-$1600 new
- DSP w/ or w/o OEM integration - channel summing/EQ/Digital Delay (Time Alignment)/Active Crossovers: $400-$1000
- Two- or Three-way Front Stage Speaker Components: $350-$1800
- Subwoofer with simple sealed or ported enclosure: $200-$800
- Subwoofer Amp: $120-$800
- Front Stage Amps: $300-$2000+ (Varies widely depending on 2- or 3-way, power output, name brand, etc.)
- Misc. Power Distribution/Fusing/Wiring: $80-$300
- Sound Deadening/Ambient Noise Control: $0-$400 (highly recommended)
- Installation Labor: $0-$2,000+

Of course, all of this depends on many factors such as:

- if buying new or used equipment
- if you do the installation yourself or hire a shop to do it (DIY or not?)
- any custom fabrication cost $$$ if not DIY
- how many channels/quality of amplification needed

Most of the regular "old timers" on this site started out with very simple systems in the beginning, but got hooked with the audio bug and quickly progressed to multi-thousand dollar installations...once you add up all of the equipment and parts, etc.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You can easily bypass the DSP, just wire around the factory amp. Not really hard at all. If you change the HU it's even easier. Just connect the HU outputs to the speaker wires at the OEM amp outputs. The problem you run into with VW amplified systems (Monsoon, Dyn, Fender, etc) is that the amp also has the crossovers built into it so you'll have to build a passive network or add an amp with built in crossovers or an amp and processor.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You can't connect your iPhone to your MDI? Mine worked on every VW or Audi untried it in. Are you sure it had the right cable?


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## eekern (Mar 19, 2005)

The dyna fronts are active 3 way. The amp would house the crossovers and any other dsp. I would have to agree that the stock Tone is rather forward, atypical of aftermarket dyna. Wether this is the cheap "dyna" oem speakers or EQ built into the amp I don't know. I do know the staging is lousy so I doubt any time alignment is used. If yreally


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## eekern (Mar 19, 2005)

If you want better sound on a budget, a good installer could locate and pull a clean signal off the oem head, install a 4 channel and bi-amp a decent set of 3 ways leaving the stock amp to run the rears. much bigger sq improvement over swapping the head and trying to dsp a crummy sound into something decent


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## eekern (Mar 19, 2005)

FYI, I use my iPhone all the time in my cc


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

eekern said:


> If you want better sound on a budget, a good installer could locate and pull a clean signal off the oem head, install a 4 channel and bi-amp a decent set of 3 ways leaving the stock amp to run the rears. much bigger sq improvement over swapping the head and trying to dsp a crummy sound into something decent



That's my point. The signal from the 510 just isn't clean. I tried everything under the sun to make it sound good and it just...didn't. Replacing the HU in a newer VW is a friggin' cake walk particularly if you use a connects2 harness.


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

eekern said:


> If you want better sound on a budget, a good installer could locate and pull a clean signal off the oem head, install a 4 channel and bi-amp a decent set of 3 ways leaving the stock amp to run the rears. much bigger sq improvement over swapping the head and trying to dsp a crummy sound into something decent





quality_sound said:


> That's my point. The signal from the 510 just isn't clean. I tried everything under the sun to make it sound good and it just...didn't. Replacing the HU in a newer VW is a friggin' cake walk particularly if you use a connects2 harness.


It would be cheaper and easier to install a new head unit than to fit a new four channel and comps in there, there's nothing wrong with the amp or speakers as they are, it's the source unit, as quality_sound says.


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## Sex Cells (Jul 21, 2007)

IIRC, aren't those drivers very similar to the esotecs? If so, I see no reason to rush and replace the mids. I'd explore amplification and tuning first.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Well, Dyn does build them but I have no idea how similar they are. I know this, the OEM Dyn system sounds like a bag of smashed assholes. A clean signal and some power would be a fantastic first step.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Well, Dyn does build them but I have no idea how similar they are. I know this, the OEM Dyn system sounds like a bag of smashed assholes. A clean signal and some power would be a fantastic first step.


Trying to get a feel for how this would sound..... 
Are the assholes the actual body part of people who act like assholes? :surprised:


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

Using dvd audio discs (Running on Empty and King Crimson's Discipline) I experienced pretty good sound. Cd's aren't cutting it.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Notloudenuf said:


> Trying to get a feel for how this would sound.....
> Are the assholes the actual body part of people who act like assholes? :surprised:


Squishy? lol


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## Vidgamer (Feb 25, 2012)

On the VW boards, the Dynaudio system seems pretty popular. My Golf just has the non-Dyn RCD-510 Premium 8. Not bad for a factory system. Anyway, they say that the Dyn setup has a DSP as well?

Through VCDS you can make changes, but it's already set to line-level at the H-U in order to pass signals to the amp. They say the sound is better with the line-level settings, that it should be more flat/neutral out of the H-U.

The problem with these fancy systems is that they are complete systems, and sometimes when you start making changes, you end up having to change a lot of things. Like, changing the speakers probably won't sound as good as it should, if the stock system has a custom EQ to match those speakers. So, then you replace the factory amp.

I'm still running speaker-level myself, but may change that soon....


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

For anything Passat or CC related, ignore the Vortex. Head over to Passatworld. It's been around since the B5 platform, is Passat/CC specific and WAY more mature.


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

The posts here are very good, and I really appreciate it.

I am willing to spend around 2-3k. 
It sounds like I should start by replacing the head unit, though I'm still not clear if the dsp is part of the head unit or not.
Not sure which head unit to get -- I looked at reviews for the Alpine model, and was surprised that the Nav is apparently so bad. Crutchfield is where I looked for reviews.

I haven't yet investigated how to listen to a setup for a reference comparison.

Will consider sound dampening, not sure how to approach.


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## 11blueGTI (Apr 24, 2011)

I will let you know my experience. Alpine US has 2 head units (one available and one coming soon) that have a vehicle display interface connector. This when paired with the Europe only APF-D100VW harness (basically a fancy can bus that integrates the steering wheel controls, connection to the MFD, and wiring to the head unit) supposedly gives you some of the factory stuff on the MFD. The only definite is the track info on the audio screen. Some say it also gives you the turn by turn.

I just ordered the adapter that is only available from the UK, cost me about twice what a can bus adapter typically costs, and should be getting it in 1-2 weeks. I am picking up the only available Alpine that works with this adapter at this time tomorrow, the INE-S920HD. The new 8" GPS supposedly works with this as well and from talking with Jim at Alpine they are releasing some time in the near future a dash kit for the 8" monitor for the VW.


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

Quality Sound, which head unit did you wind up choosing? What did you give up from stock functionality?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Over the RNS-510? I went through a few but the last one was a W505.


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## VW_CC_VR6 (Jun 1, 2012)

If there are no great double dins, what are our options?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

They new INA-920 is pretty sweet. But if you want a screen, IVA-D800C into an PXA-H800 would my choice.


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