# Have you seen the new Hybrid Audio L3 Pro dome midrange?



## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

Sexy 



















Compared to the L1 Pro Tweeters










We just got them in today so I haven't had a chance to listen to them, but it is on tomorrows to do list. 

If I can wait that long


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Looking real good Tom!


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## underdog (Jul 5, 2011)

That looks great

There was a thread around here that mentioned which HAT speakers did better active or passive. 
Anyone remember?

Found one
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/system-design-help-me-choose-equipment-my-car/119576-best-budget-sq-component.html


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## hpilot2004 (Dec 13, 2011)

Difference, other than size?


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## hpilot2004 (Dec 13, 2011)

Nevermind post, I need to learn to read?


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

I see nothing?


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

^The design of the L3 Pro came from the L1 Pro. The L1 Pro and L3 look the same except for the size.


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

hpilot2004 said:


> Difference, other than size?


Useable frequency range.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Of course you saw nothing.  That's because the L3 Pro is a brand new design of my own designing, and has no equivalent or "OEM equal" anywhere else. Hybrid Audio Technologies is the manufacturer. Here is an example from my original design drawings:










Here is our in-house LMS:










The Legatia Pro-series User's Manual will be posted here: The Home of the World's Finest Loudspeakers, and World Championship Car Audio Speaker Systems. - Downloads within the next few days.

We are also working on an L4 Pro, as well as Limited Edition L1 Pro R2, L3SE, and L6SE, as has been discussed at length on our FaceBook page, here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hybrid-Audio-Technologies/189181953946 (reference posts particularly in the June timeframe). We are also now shipping the Legatia L6SE Carbon. Many new, fresh designs that put a focus on performance.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Plus or minus 2 dB from 430 Hz to 13,000 Hz.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Care to tell us what is the advantage of a dome midrange compared to an equivalent (in size) cone midrange? Ease of finding a location without aiming? 

Thanks Scott, 
Kelvin


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Sounds like a master's thesis topic. 

Generally speaking, domes are more linear, have a better sensitivity, less moving mass for better transient attack and decay, and don't require an enclosure, or even a sealed baffle. Generally speaking, contrary to what many of the experts on this forum will tell you, domes are more directional than cones, which may or may not be an advantage depending on your system design and speaker locations.

Generally speaking, cones have a significantly lower Fs, and therefore can play lower with more authority, but are not as loud as domes, tend to not be as linear, and have slightly higher moving mass. That being said, with proper geometry, pole piece, and Cu-Al inductance mitigation, can also be made to play an ultra-wide bandwidth, where domes fall short of the task (that being said, we were able to squeeze 13,000 Hz out of the L3 Pro with inductance mitigation, dome geometry, moving mass, and flange body geometry). Cones typically manage higher power levels better than domes. Generally speaking, cones offer a wider dispersion than domes, which for many in a car environ is a big plus. Cones also require some form of front wave to rear wave isolation, and in the case of many other manufacturer’s products, require a physical sealed enclosure (Hybrid Audio cone drivers require just an infinite baffle).

There’s obviously much more to be said here – power compression, step response, the effect of ITD and IID, but the above is a good start. It’s really an apples to oranges comparison between domes and cones. They do two completely different things, and serve two completely different purposes. There are also many die-hard dome fans out there.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks Scott... 

Since domes are more directional than cones, you suggest aiming the L3Pro closer to on-axis (in kicks for eg.)? 
Do you have any polar response of your L3Pro? What is the dispersion window like? Still 360° below beaming? 

Sorry for all those questions but I've never used nor heard a dome driver... 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Those domes would be incredible either one the far corners of a dash firing up at the glass or on the sail panels out wide.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

In an anechoic cahmber, this is all very easy to predict. In a car, not so much. But yes, as a general rule of thumb, domes tend to need to be "aimed" much moreso than cones. In any number of cone instalallations I have built over the years, the aiming of the cone driver isn't exactly paramount by comparison to other factors, such as step response, closed-field response and polar response, size and shape of the baffle, and coupling to the baffle, especially in the low hundreds of Hz. Domes are more finicky, but once dialed in can yeild absolutely amazing results.

There's a good bit of reading you might want to tackle on the subject actually.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> Those domes would be incredible either one the far corners of a dash firing up at the glass or on the sail panels out wide.


Exactly, and my thought when I went to design it. Much easier to physically "install" than a cone midrange of the same size.


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Those domes would be incredible either one the far corners of a dash firing up at the glass or on the sail panels out wide.


I'll let you know


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> In an anechoic cahmber, this is all very easy to predict. In a car, not so much. But yes, as a general rule of thumb, domes tend to need to be "aimed" much moreso than cones. In any number of cone instalallations I have built over the years, the aiming of the cone driver isn't exactly paramount by comparison to other factors, such as step response, closed-field response and polar response, size and shape of the baffle, and coupling to the baffle, especially in the low hundreds of Hz. Domes are more finicky, but once dialed in can yeild absolutely amazing results.
> 
> *There's a good bit of reading you might want to tackle on the subject actually.*


I'm sure you'll take care of 95% of it in the manual  

I'll try to search for those readings when I have more time tonight. 

Kelvin


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Here are other things we are working on:

Legatia Limited Edition Anniversary Series products, which will be released in limited quantities in about 60 days:





































We’re working on an aperiodically-damped rear chamber Legatia L4 Pro. Here is our alpha prototype next to a lens cap to show scale. The mounting technique will be the same as the L3 Pro, so just ignore the screw holes:










And here is our brand new shallow-depth high-performance Carbon L6SE midbass, available now:










Oops, blatant plug:












Scott


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Good looking drivers, Scott.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

They look great. I love me some domes!!!!!


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## highspeed (May 4, 2012)

Very nice!!!

Any chance of a 10" subwoofer being added to the Legatia line? 

Great work Scott, love your products.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Not immediately. We are hard at work refining the Legatia L13 Pro, due out around Christmas or CES (January).


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

Makes me want to become a speaker designer.

Hmm, maybe I'll do just that.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Scott, those are some beautiful (appearance and design) products.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

highspeed said:


> Very nice!!!
> 
> Any chance of a 10" subwoofer being added to the Legatia line?
> 
> Great work Scott, love your products.


I'll throw some Imagine 10's in a Legatia box if it makes you happy. 

No matter which model they are labeled, they are great subs. I love those things.


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

I agree with Tom, the Imagine 10's are great subs.


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## highspeed (May 4, 2012)

12v Electronics said:


> I'll throw some Imagine 10's in a Legatia box if it makes you happy.
> 
> Those Imagine subs are in the wrong model line anyway. I love those things.


Well that's good to hear because they are in my current build plan... I figure I'll run them until Hybrid makes another one that works in the same enclosure.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

highspeed said:


> Very nice!!!
> 
> Any chance of a 10" subwoofer being added to the Legatia line?
> 
> Great work Scott, love your products.


L13.5 in the near future... Don't know about any 10" at the moment. 

Kelvin 

Edit: oups... didn't see there was another page to the thread lol


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Scott Buwalda said:


> In an anechoic cahmber, this is all very easy to predict. In a car, not so much. But yes, as a general rule of thumb, domes tend to need to be "aimed" much moreso than cones. In any number of cone instalallations I have built over the years, the aiming of the cone driver isn't exactly paramount by comparison to other factors, such as step response, closed-field response and polar response, size and shape of the baffle, and coupling to the baffle, especially in the low hundreds of Hz. Domes are more finicky, but once dialed in can yeild absolutely amazing results.
> 
> There's a good bit of reading you might want to tackle on the subject actually.


I always thought that domes were supposed to have a "spacey", unfocused sound, especially if the dome is largely unobscured by the bezel (like the DynAudio units)... basically a 360-degree radiation pattern and in three dimensions - like a half-sphere/hemispherical pattern.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

highspeed said:


> Well that's good to hear because they are in my current build plan... I figure I'll run them until Hybrid makes another one that works in the same enclosure.


You won't be disappointed. I've got 2 Imagine 6.5" subs in a 37' demo vehicle that I have been told by customers that they were "blown away" by them. I enjoy the reaction on their faces when they actually see the size of the speakers and enclosure. I'm sure you will be very happy with them.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

HondAudio said:


> I always thought that domes were supposed to have a "spacey", unfocused sound, especially if the dome is largely unobscured by the bezel (like the DynAudio units)... basically a 360-degree radiation pattern and in three dimensions - like a half-sphere/hemispherical pattern.


so, a 360, but half-sphere... sooo.... 180? 


Depending on what bandwidth you're talking about, any - well, just about - speaker can do that. It's called omnidirectional. Unlike when a speaker beams (as the wavelength approaches the diameter of the speaker) and that wide polar becomes a narrow beam.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Scott Buwalda said:


> In an anechoic cahmber, this is all very easy to predict. In a car, not so much. *But yes, as a general rule of thumb, domes tend to need to be "aimed" much moreso than cones.* In any number of cone instalallations I have built over the years, the aiming of the cone driver isn't exactly paramount by comparison to other factors, such as step response, closed-field response and polar response, size and shape of the baffle, and coupling to the baffle, especially in the low hundreds of Hz. Domes are more finicky, but once dialed in can yeild absolutely amazing results.
> 
> There's a good bit of reading you might want to tackle on the subject actually.


I admittedly haven't specifically looked up any FR measurements of domes and I don't _recall_ seeing any that included off-axis measurements, but I'll just take you at your word here for the next bit...

I wonder if that has to do with the higher crossover point, compared to a cone of the same size. Typically*, a cone can be crossed lower. The polar response is inherently better because it has the ability to play a lower frequency where it's a bit more omnidirectional. Whereas a dome is needed to be crossed higher to avoid distortion (and mechanical issues, I'm told) and therefore isn't able to take advantage of the point at which it's somewhat omni. 

So, basically, you wind up with a cone that has wider dispersion in the lower end because it's being crossed lower than what the dome would be crossed at.

Make sense? Sounds like a thesis candidate.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Erin, Zaph has measurements of the ATC dome and a few others.


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

Dynaudio also has graphs (axis/off axis) for md142 so you can compare domes and cones.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Lookin' good.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Scott, can you post up any FR graphs or drawings for the L4 Pro?


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> so, a 360, but half-sphere... sooo.... 180?
> 
> 
> Depending on what bandwidth you're talking about, any - well, just about - speaker can do that. It's called omnidirectional. Unlike when a speaker beams (as the wavelength approaches the diameter of the speaker) and that wide polar becomes a narrow beam.


Let me clarify: a domed speaker is mounted to a horizontal surface, and facing upwards. The directivity would be like a half of a globe sitting on top of the speaker, with directivity going every direction except downwards...?

Like this:










(from here: Sound power level and sound pressure level distance compare sound source SPL conversion sound level to sound power directivity factor coefficient - sengpielaudio )

I found that when I searched for "hemispherical directivity"


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

OK, back on topic.

Fish, the L4 Pro doesn't exist yet. Still working on it. Preliminary work puts it at an Fs just above 210 Hz. I am now modeling an aperiodic diaphragm at the back of the chamber to see if we can smooth out the impedance plot and get the Fs down a little bit. If we're to build an L4 Pro, it needs to be substantially different than the L3 Pro in order for it to be a viable product, instead of just "a bigger L3 Pro."

Thanks bmiller1.

Thanks highspeed.

Thanks subwoofery.

Erin, you hit the nail on the head and is a good response to HondAudio's comments. I think what's most important to consider is the fact that, in my opinion, the dome topology better approximates a true monopole, especially in the lower one third of its frequency response. What also makes the L3 Pro a very good approximation of a true monopole is the fact that the flange/body of the driver is solid machined aluminum, void of interstitial spaces. This terminates resonances well. But there is a trade-off in that the monopole response gains consistently from pressure buildup. The pressure (unfortunately) can also be manifested as backwave pressure within the tuned chamber of the driver itself. Like any theoretical monopole speaker, especially one in a very small enclosure, back-pressure coloration is always a concern. Therefore, the Fs of these drivers does play crucial role in the "spectral envelope" by which they are called to operate within. The Moral to the story is - crossover frequency is everything with these guys' choose wisely.  

Back on subject, the cone "monopole" is very much less uniform, and also is subject to baffle irregularities, but a cone speaker can be made to behave very properly with certain baffle enhancements, such as keeping size and shape small with respect to speaker diameter, flush-mounting the speakers, and physical speaker decoupling. Baffle step is a big deal too. When combined with an "infinitely large enclosure", those cone topologies and the subsequent lack of back pressure information manifesting itself forward of the cone is a non-issue.

I just realized I am rambling, so I'll shut up. The morale to the story is that there's a home for both cone and dome topologies in car audio - it just depends what you want to achieve out of your system.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

^ Just what I was going to say.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

To whatever moderator or adminstrator that cleaned up the thread, THANK YOU.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Scott- a couple of questions please-

1) You have been an advocate of crossing tweeters above 5Khz when they are located far from the "woofer" in a 2-way setup, e.g. sail panel tweeter with lower door midbass. In an effort to improve my midrange directionality and stage height and to avoid my midbass playing in the breakup frequencies I purchased tweeters that could play very low- e.g. 2Khz or so. These are wideband 1" domes. In the process of tuning the sound- it became quite obvious that the setup still sounded the best when the tweeters were / are crossed above 5Khz- because the sound quality of the domes playing the 2K-5K frequencies was very nasal and quite poor- in addition to the 2-source vocal overlap issues. 
So how is the SQ of the L3 midrange dome from 1K to 5K? Can I place it on the upper front door panel? A driver being able to reproduce frequencies at relatively the same amplitude is not necessarily an indication of how well those frequencies sound to one's ear.

2) Is there a possibility it can be used in a tweeterless 2-way setup? I'm all out of channels! 

Thank you.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes, of course, I advocate wide-bandwidth operation whever posisble, especially to cover the important VOCAL range of about 150 Hz to about 6,000 Hz (the geometry of our ears dictating these frequencies). The dome L3 Pro would be a fantastic candidate for the task of reproducing the vocal spectrum in your car. Furthermore, I am glad to hear that you have experienced the vocal spectrum envelope and IID and HRTF cues from your choice of tweeter to midbass crossover frequency. It is quite remarkable, isn't it?

And yes, you *could* use the L3 Pro without a tweeter. I'll explain why, and how to make it work. Get them completely on-axis, and you're good to about 13,000 Hz. Most of us can't hear past 16,000 Hz anyway, so you'll be "missing" that 1/2 octave. If you have some DSP ability, you could boost those frequencies slightly and see what happens. OR, aim them coincidental to windshield glass or etc. and try and net the "benefits" (benefits very much in quotes) of comb filtering. I have seen installs that use L4's in the dash, firing off glass, that have 20KHz flat, without equalization. Alas, that is the L4 though. It's worth a try nonetheless. Baring that, ANY tweeter will work to fill in the sparkle that you might be missing, heck, even a 16mm factory tweeter with a 2.2 uF capacitor on it would do the trick. Now you have many octaves of information portrayed through one pair of quality speakers, and can save budget on virtually anything off-the-shelf for tweeters, incluidng factory-supplied tweeters.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Yes, of course, I advocate wide-bandwidth operation whever posisble, especially to cover the important VOCAL range of about 150 Hz to about 6,000 Hz (the geometry of our ears dictating these frequencies). The dome L3 Pro would be a fantastic candidate for the task of reproducing the vocal spectrum in your car. Furthermore, I am glad to hear that you have experienced the vocal spectrum envelope and IID and HRTF cues from your choice of tweeter to midbass crossover frequency. It is quite remarkable, isn't it?
> 
> *And yes, you *could* use the L3 Pro without a tweeter. I'll explain why, and how to make it work. Get them completely on-axis, and you're good to about 13,000 Hz. Most of us can't hear past 16,000 Hz anyway, so you'll be "missing" that 1/2 octave. If you have some DSP ability, you could boost those frequencies slightly and see what happens. OR, aim them coincidental to windshield glass or etc. and try and net the "benefits" (benefits very much in quotes) of comb filtering. I have seen installs that use L4's in the dash, firing off glass, that have 20KHz flat, without equalization. Alas, that is the L4 though. It's worth a try nonetheless. Baring that, ANY tweeter will work to fill in the sparkle that you might be missing, heck, even a 16mm factory tweeter with a 2.2 uF capacitor on it would do the trick. Now you have many octaves of information portrayed through one pair of quality speakers, and can save budget on virtually anything off-the-shelf for tweeters, incluidng factory-supplied tweeters.*


couldnt agree more. same kind of setup for HLCD. most of them start rolling off about 12khz. boost 16khz and 20khz and you wont miss not having tweeters.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks Scott for replies. I've been intrigued with domes ever since I read NPDang's thread about the testing of the Dayton RS52. That thing is huge though, so the L3 Pro sure does look like a good candidate.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

12V....

Did you get a chance to have a listen to the L3 Pros yet?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

any ideas on price? This could be a very good match for my Infinity kappa ribbons I have been hiding for years.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

fish said:


> 12V....
> 
> Did you get a chance to have a listen to the L3 Pros yet?


Not yet. I got busy. 



Jroo said:


> any ideas on price? This could be a very good match for my Infinity kappa ribbons I have been hiding for years.


Legatia L3PRO Speaker Set - 12v Electronics

In stock no waiting


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

12v Electronics said:


> Not yet. I got busy.
> 
> Legatia L3PRO Speaker Set - 12v Electronics
> 
> In stock no waiting


Keep us posted when you get them tested Tom, those look great and are significantly smaller than the Dyn Audio domes I bought and can’t fit in my pillars LOL


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

fish said:


> 12V....
> 
> Did you get a chance to have a listen to the L3 Pros yet?


Update, they are breaking in over night and I will have them playing at my desk tomorrow :rockon:

Made some desk stands for them too.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I would love to swap out my dyn 140/100's for a set of L3 domes and L1's!! Yummy!!


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

12v Electronics said:


> Update, they are breaking in over night and I will have them playing at my desk tomorrow :rockon:
> 
> Made some desk stands for them too.


NICE!!!!!! Wanna sell that setup after your done testing them??????


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Are there any plans for a L3SE Carbon?


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

southpawskater said:


> NICE!!!!!! Wanna sell that setup after your done testing them??????


After hearing them, I think I may just keep them on my desk 

I can make more if you want them though. 



BeatsDownLow said:


> Are there any plans for a L3SE Carbon?


I don't believe so. Is there that much call for a 3.7" mid in an OEM location where space is an issue? I can't think of one car. 



So I ended up getting stuck in the shop all day, but that was not going to stop me from giving them a listen. I rigged up this setup on the bench next to me. It is a bit crude and pieced together, but all of my other equipment is tied up right now. It'll have to do for now. 










After some trial and error I settled on the L3pro's playing at 400hz and up. I found that they do indeed do a pretty good job up top. They definitely do not need much up there. I decided to roll in the tweeter somewhere about 11.5k which sounded pretty good. The crossover choices I have are limited at the moment and I could not get a good blend of mid/tweet while bandpassing the mid. 

Then I tried running the L3 pro from 400hz up and a simple cap on the tweeter (2mfd) and it really worked well. 

I wanted to hear it with some midbass, so I hooked up a set of speakers we had in the shop. They are playing 400hz and down. Sorry that I do not know more crossover specs as it is a bit crude and older than dirt.  

I will get this set in a car in a few days and set up right. I was just trying to break them in a bit and get a feel for crossover choices. 

I have to say that I really like this midrange. It performs really well and has way more authority than any other dome midrange I have ever dealt with (Mostly Dyn in cars). I spent about 3 hours listening to it by itself today. I found that there were no harsh spots or breakup in the frequency range. Output seemed to be very flat and the midrange was very listenable just by itself. Very little tweeter was needed. Upon experimenting with the HP freq, I found that it was able to do a really great job down to about 250 hz. This is NOT recommended as minimum crossover frequncy is about 400 hz (maybe Scott can clarify as the specs are not published yet). I wish I had a L3 SE set up for comparison as I use that driver in builds and really like that driver. 

What I love about this L3 Pro is that it opens up so many more installation ideas. No digging for airspace, sealing up holes, etc. That right there is why I think I found my new favorite Hybrid Audio Technologies speaker.

Great Job Scott!

Now I know this is dumb, but I took a video of the set in action. I know you can't expect much from a video, but I thought I would post it anyway. This is the L3 Pro running 400hz + up with a 2mfd cap on the tweeter and a rigged up set of midbasses. Sounds overly bright on the video, but really great in person. 

Testing L3 Pro's - YouTube

Don't flame too bad please :blush:


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## hpilot2004 (Dec 13, 2011)

These are very impressive, Sir! Great job, Scott!


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks Tom, for taking the time to write out your thoughts. If 250hz sounded pretty good to you then hopefully (with Scott's recommendation) run these at high volume with a 315hz high-pass on a 36db or even a 60db slope.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks guys, thanks Tom. If 315 Hz is the desired crossover frequency, you'd do well to cross at 36 dB/octave. 24 dB/octave will be too aggressive with any appreciable input power.

The will be no L3SE Carbon. We need to stop somewhere.   We currently offer three 3-inch midrange choices (four if you count the L3V1, out of production, but still in stock), with a fourth [fifth if you count L3V1] (Limited Edition) in a few months. Same for 4-inch drivers, we currently offer two 4-inch models, with a third (L4 Pro) likely in the works. Compare that to ANY other car audio manufacturer.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Thanks guys, thanks Tom. If 315 Hz is the desired crossover frequency, you'd do well to cross at 36 dB/octave. 24 dB/octave will be too aggressive with any appreciable input power.
> 
> The will be no L3SE Carbon. We need to stop somewhere.   We currently offer three 3-inch midrange choices (four if you count the L3V1, out of production, but still in stock), with a fourth [fifth if you count L3V1] (Limited Edition) in a few months. Same for 4-inch drivers, we currently offer two 4-inch models, with a third (L4 Pro) likely in the works. Compare that to ANY other car audio manufacturer.


Gotchya. I could just see a pair of those sexy L3se carbons sitting in my pillars. For me I need aesthetically pleasing as well as good performance, when stuff is in my line of sight. And me personally, I am not a fan of the looks of the inverted surrounds, and I love carbon. Thats why I was asking. 

Any info out there about the new LE edition one?


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Seriously considering these even considering the price. It seems the only way to get top level sound quality it to have a dedicated midrange / wideband driver and ideally with a nice shot to the ears. The typical two-way just can't achieve that and these self enclosed domes offer a really nice install solution- I do not have time to glass an enclosure together. 
I've searched and searched and there seems to be nothing else like these Pro L3s, although there is a very tempting pioneer stage 4 self enclosed wideband mid/tweeter. I guess it might be time to jump on the hybrid audio band wagon. I'll probably add some Imagine 6's to improve the front stage midbass too and use my old focal tweeters for the highs- i'm guessing they will sound better than the imagine tweeters- no offense- but who knows.
right now i have so much tied into my car's system yet it does not sound like i anticipated- i'm deducing that the physics of asking a driver to play high excursion low frequencies and much lower excursion mid range frequencies is just filled with sound quality compromises- add to the fact that door mounted mid bass drivers clearly do not have a clear line of sight to the listener's ears. time for a dedicated mid/high band driver- one look at the champion competition vehicles and this becomes very obvious.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I've read that the imagine 6's do pretty good. I have heard the clarus mids and they sounded really good. In that particular setup they were paired with l3se's so they were certainly just doing midbass duties.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the l3pro's at finals this year. I sure hope so cause I'll be there and want to hear them myself


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm getting a pair of L3 Pro coz the L4 won't fit where I had planned... 

Now need to fill the trade-in trade-up document 

Kelvin


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Yes, of course, I advocate wide-bandwidth operation whever posisble, especially to cover the important VOCAL range of about 150 Hz to about 6,000 Hz (the geometry of our ears dictating these frequencies). The dome L3 Pro would be a fantastic candidate for the task of reproducing the vocal spectrum in your car. Furthermore, I am glad to hear that you have experienced the vocal spectrum envelope and IID and HRTF cues from your choice of tweeter to midbass crossover frequency. It is quite remarkable, isn't it?
> 
> And yes, you *could* use the L3 Pro without a tweeter. I'll explain why, and how to make it work. Get them completely on-axis, and you're good to about 13,000 Hz. Most of us can't hear past 16,000 Hz anyway, so you'll be "missing" that 1/2 octave. If you have some DSP ability, you could boost those frequencies slightly and see what happens. OR, aim them coincidental to windshield glass or etc. and try and net the "benefits" (benefits very much in quotes) of comb filtering. I have seen installs that use L4's in the dash, firing off glass, that have 20KHz flat, without equalization. Alas, that is the L4 though. It's worth a try nonetheless. Baring that, ANY tweeter will work to fill in the sparkle that you might be missing, heck, even a 16mm factory tweeter with a 2.2 uF capacitor on it would do the trick. Now you have many octaves of information portrayed through one pair of quality speakers, and can save budget on virtually anything off-the-shelf for tweeters, incluidng factory-supplied tweeters.


Thanks for the reply- very close on these. Just a couple more please-

1) I would like to install them behind the factory tweeter grills- as shown in the pic. I do not (at this point) wish to enlarge the opening in the door, even as sweet as the L3s would look this way. The opening is smaller than the OD of the dome grill by about 3-1/2mm radially. Would this greatly affect the response, dispersion or sound quality?

2) The 2.2uf cap would give a shallow slope to the tweeter and therefore some overlap. I do not have a problem with making a crossover that would be higher and steeper, e.g. 8K / 12db, if necessary. 
I'm just concerned because I will have no way to control the level of the tweeter- and I do not want to purchase an outboard processor. If you feel the 2.2 is OK, I will do just that. 

Thanks again for your time.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Please disregard post no. 62. I ordered a set of L3SE drivers. Better fit and no concerns about running without tweeter.


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## brackac (May 2, 2011)

Looking for a wideband driver to work in a left/center/right setup in my truck. The HAT website isn't working for me as of right now, any other place with info on this driver?


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Try 12v electronics site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

brackac said:


> Looking for a wideband driver to work in a left/center/right setup in my truck. The HAT website isn't working for me as of right now, any other place with info on this driver?


Their site works for me. 

Last I checked their isn't a manual out yet for the domes.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

brackac said:


> Looking for a wideband driver to work in a left/center/right setup in my truck. The HAT website isn't working for me as of right now, any other place with info on this driver?


Which processor do you plan to use? If you reply JBL MS-8, the wideband won't work... 

Kelvin


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## TitanCCBT3 (Jul 15, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> I'm getting a pair of L3 Pro coz the L4 won't fit where I had planned...
> 
> Now need to fill the trade-in trade-up document
> 
> Kelvin



Did you end up with the L3 Pro installed?

I am considering them and would like to place them in a pillars of Titan truck

Wondering how they would sound off axis in 3 way setup
with L6 and L1v2

Thx


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## brackac (May 2, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Their site works for me.
> 
> Last I checked their isn't a manual out yet for the domes.


Well, I am sitting in the middle of bumfuck Afghanistan, so that might be the problem.


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## brackac (May 2, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> Which processor do you plan to use? If you reply JBL MS-8, the wideband won't work...
> 
> Kelvin


Won't be using that type of processor. I've listed to cars with the MS-8, and a Bit ONE, and thought they both sounded "fake".


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

TitanCCBT3 said:


> Did you end up with the L3 Pro installed?
> 
> I am considering them and would like to place them in a pillars of Titan truck
> 
> ...


Nope not yet, using the ScanSpeak 10F right now - might use the L3 Pro next (some time next year), the Scan isn't efficient enough...

Kelvin


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

brackac said:


> Won't be using that type of processor. I've listed to cars with the MS-8, and a Bit ONE, and thought they both sounded "fake".


How does a bitone sound fake? I could maybe see how an auto tune device might not produce a sound someone likes, but a dsp that isn't in an auto tune mode?


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## TitanCCBT3 (Jul 15, 2012)

Anyone try out these L3pro's ? 

I am interested in getting to put in A pillars off axis with l1v2 and L6 in doors

Wondering how they sound/perform

Any opinions?

Thx


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

TitanCCBT3 said:


> Anyone try out these L3pro's ?
> 
> I am interested in getting to put in A pillars off axis with l1v2 and L6 in doors
> 
> ...


I have 

In that 3 way set up I think they would do very well.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

TitanCCBT3 said:


> Anyone try out these L3pro's ?
> 
> I am interested in getting to put in A pillars off axis with l1v2 and L6 in doors
> 
> ...


I've heard them in three different cars at the IASCA finals this year. One of them actually had no tweeters (although it isn't recommended). Sounded very, very good. It took a lot of trial and error on location to get them right in his vehicle though, so don't be afraid to experiment if you can.


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## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

Any more thoughts on this driver?


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

I would also be very interested in any other thoughts on this driver.
I have searched this and the Hybrid audio forum for installs using these and have found nothing.
Does anyone have firsthand experience with these installed?


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

I'm looking as well for some feedback. It appears the enthusiasm for this Dome didn't pan out?


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

lizardking said:


> I'm looking as well for some feedback. It appears the enthusiasm for this Dome didn't pan out?


We have not sold a lot of them. The people who have heard them buy them, but I guess people are just skeptical. Hopefully someone else will chime in. 

I still have a set on my desk that I listen to every day and I love them. Even when they are not on I am constantly getting comments on how good they look.


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Probably due the price as well. I know if they were cheaper...I would buy just to try them out.


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Subscribed...


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

12v Electronics said:


> Update, they are breaking in over night and I will have them playing at my desk tomorrow :rockon:
> 
> Made some desk stands for them too.


These look AWESOME!


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## vivmike (May 24, 2013)

Can i use these, in place of my tweeter, molded into my pillars?

Dont want to run 3 way.


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## vivmike (May 24, 2013)

Or should I just upgrade to a set of L1 pro R2?


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

vivmike said:


> Can i use these, in place of my tweeter, molded into my pillars?
> 
> Dont want to run 3 way.


They would not be a good replacement for a tweeter. You will still need one.



vivmike said:


> Or should I just upgrade to a set of L1 pro R2?


I don't know the rest of your system, but that may very well be a better choice.


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## vivmike (May 24, 2013)

PM sent


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## jbholsters (Jun 17, 2009)

So if I'm understanding correctly, they will work better if aimed? If aiming is not possible due to install restrictions, go with one of the cone mids, such as the L3SE or V2's?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

jbholsters said:


> So if I'm understanding correctly, they will work better if aimed? If aiming is not possible due to install restrictions, go with one of the cone mids, such as the L3SE or V2's?


Depends on what you're goal is with them. If you're using tweeters with them, then you can certainly have them off axis up to the beaming point to ensure good power response.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

12v Electronics said:


> Update, they are breaking in over night and I will have them playing at my desk tomorrow :rockon:
> 
> Made some desk stands for them too.


These look nice .... I'm sure if you mount them in the car where people could see them... It's a brake in for sure


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

vivmike said:


> Can i use these, in place of my tweeter, molded into my pillars?
> 
> Dont want to run 3 way.


Rekindling this old thread a bit

I'm about to do exactly this. Have L6SE in door, L1 in upper door, and will now attempt to hack and slash the L3Pro into my A pillar.

Will try and take pics and let you know how things work out.

Went with the L3 Pro, after messing with the Morel CDM88 (really nice and small, sounds ok, but thin), Dynaudio 140 (too huge, size of a soda can).

But I like the HAT sound, and figured what the heck, its only money 

Gonna try and bandpass them within the amp (PPI 900.4), and cross them at 3k bottom, 6k top as a starting point. 

The JBL MS-8 is limited in the way it can accommodate this many drivers, so I'm going to gang the tweets together with mids and split before the amp-in.

They'll be active, separately amped but the MS-8 won't see them as separate, so it should be an interesting tuning exercise.

I also have a Hifonics (branded anyway, Cadence, Mclaren, etc are all the same circuit boards) electronic crossover that can produce a midrange bandpass, so if all else fails in the amp, I'll try this method.

I'd like to try it without passive crossovers initially, so I have flexibility in the crossover points


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

nanohead said:


> Gonna try and bandpass them within the amp (PPI 900.4), and cross them at 3k bottom, 6k top as a starting point.
> 
> The JBL MS-8 is limited in the way it can accommodate this many drivers, so I'm going to gang the tweets together with mids and split before the amp-in.
> 
> They'll be active, separately amped but the MS-8 won't see them as separate, so it should be an interesting tuning exercise.



Seems like a very narrow bandwidth for this driver to play. That could be more harm than good. (considering another driver location, phase issues, etc.) You may want to consider running the L3pro somewhere closer to 500-800hz thru 5Khz.


I just got mine installed and will be tuning in about a week. Good luck


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

captainobvious said:


> Seems like a very narrow bandwidth for this driver to play. That could be more harm than good. (considering another driver location, phase issues, etc.) You may want to consider running the L3pro somewhere closer to 500-800hz thru 5Khz.
> 
> 
> I just got mine installed and will be tuning in about a week. Good luck


Interesting idea, I'll try that. I sent them up the freq range mostly because I already have prodigious mid bass, and wanted some more vocal soundstage presence. 

I already installed them, and have been playing with the sound. They absolutely step on the tweets, thats for sure. So you're theory may in fact be correct. I also have the L6 SE in the doors, which are very wideband, and I've been running them to 4.5k through the MS-8, and sending everything else to the L1s, which aren't great tweeters unfortunately (they're the originals, and they sound washed out) 

I'm gonna reset the crossover point through the MS-8 now much lower, and send under say 1.5k to the SEs, then everything else to the L3pro and L1.

I'm also gonna try using the external active crossover and see what happens. It has a X20 frequency multiplier, where the amps have a X10. I may be able to dial things in closer as well..

Why oh why do we do this to ourselves


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

nanohead said:


> I already installed them, and have been playing with the sound. They absolutely step on the tweets, thats for sure. So you're theory may in fact be correct. I also have the L6 SE in the doors, which are very wideband, and I've been running them to 4.5k through the MS-8, and sending everything else to the L1s, which aren't great tweeters unfortunately (they're the originals, and they sound washed out)


I am interested to see how this turns out for you. I know you will give us some nice feedback!...

Enjoy the day of tuning!


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

Well, Captainobvious is an evil genius.

I lowered them to start at 1.5k, and they came to life! I may lower that later today to 1.2k, but I still want the L6 SEs to have a role to play, although I may lessen the slope to 12db and see how that works.

Being the lazy middle aged guy that I am, I settled on the MS-8 because it does so much for me. But it never really sounded amazing, and I hated Logic 7, and never ran it, as it sounded like dirt. 

But NOW, OMFG, it actually sounds amazing, although not on every track. But for my reference material that I usually tune with, its sounding freakin awesome right now, although I seem to have introduced some DC whine into my front amp which I have to either fix, or cheat and use a choke.

The L3Pros are totally transparent at the moment, which is cool. I'm now out of love with the L1s and may move them to the rear, and replace the front tweets with some Air Ribbons that I have.

Here's some pics too. Don't make too much fun of my wiring, as its a 4 door pickup and there's not much room for anything really!! (still working on the pics, the system is giving me a hard time!)


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

Trying the pics this time

Here's what you see. The L3Pros are placed mostly on axis on the edges of the dash. I'm going to hack them into the lower portion of the A pillar, although likely not in a classic pod, more like a hybrid of the Focal/Pioneer approach to a corner enclosure. I'm going to do this because they are a tad large...

One of the PPI 900.4s runs the front L6SE in the door, and the rear door combo of L6 and CDT ES-02s, which are passively crossed with a set of Image Dynamics Xovers (yes, I have a pile of junk laying around)

The other PPI 900.4 is running the L3Pro/L1 combo in an active mode, split in front of the input side using y connectors as seen in the photo. I've set up the amp to crossover the l3Pro at low pass of 5k, and the L1 tweet at high pass at around 4 k. The amp allows band pass, but I'm creating a virtual bandpass, with over 1.5k coming from the MS-8, and a LP on the amp.

The MS-8 (buried under seat in the rear) sees the Front as a 2 way (crossed at 1.5K), driving the L6SE, and also driving the other amp and front mid/tweet. 

Definitely a complex setup. But its starting to sound off the hook.

I never used Logic 7 before, as it sounded muddy, and I shut it off, and moved the fader up forward to try and move the soundstage. But now, with the L3Pros, the soundstage is right up front, where we're all trying to get it 

I also have Mosconi 6to8 that I may swap with the JBL and try some manual tuning so I can play around with the TA a bit to move the soundstage.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice job. 

I would definitely go a step further and cross the L6 lower...try around the 800hz area and same with the L3pro. Then make the cross point between the L3pro and L1 about 5K and see what that gets you. Also, use your gain adjustment to get a nice balanced output between the drivers so that none of them are too loud in the mix as a whole.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm very interested how this ends up. I thought the L3Pro low end was around 2k. 1.k definitely makes them more flexible. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

nanohead said:


> Well, Captainobvious is an evil genius.
> 
> I lowered them to start at 1.5k, and they came to life! I may lower that later today to 1.2k, but I still want the L6 SEs to have a role to play, although I may lessen the slope to 12db and see how that works.
> 
> ...


After you tweek again...
Scott suggested Plus or minus 2 dB from "430 Hz to 13,000 Hz" have you been able to open it up that wide?

Can you give your start and stops on your setup as far as frequency range?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Yup, with an FS of 249hz, you can cross one octave above FS and do the 500hz at 24db with no problem. I probably wouldn't run it anywhere near 13Khz on the top end though as you'll be beaming pretty badly at that point. No need to is you have tweeters as well


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> After you tweek again...
> Scott suggested Plus or minus 2 dB from "430 Hz to 13,000 Hz" have you been able to open it up that wide?
> 
> Can you give your start and stops on your setup as far as frequency range?


Still playing around with the thresholds. Ran out of time this weekend, back to the airport to crisscross the country this week. I definitely didn't open it up that wide though... the biggest I did was 1k to 5k, mostly due to limitations on the PP1 900.4 built in LP. I'm going to move to the external active crossover when I can get back into it later this week, or this coming weekend.

I will say though, that the overall sound was more airy, fluid and spatial at 1.5k vs 1k starting point. But I only did some automated MS-8 calibration runs, so didn't mess with slopes too much. I did find some flatness around 800hz to 2.5khz that I had to account for with the MS-8 equalizer. Could just be the interior layout/materials of the pickup though here. Also, since I'm using the crossovers in the Amp, not sure how accurate it really is. I'm gonna do some test tone verification of exactly how the crossovers are set when I get back into it



captainobvious said:


> Yup, with an FS of 249hz, you can cross one octave above FS and do the 500hz at 24db with no problem. I probably wouldn't run it anywhere near 13Khz on the top end though as you'll be beaming pretty badly at that point. No need to is you have tweeters as well


I'm gonna try different scenarios. Agree with not running them too high, as they sound shimmery (is that a word?) on super bright passages, so I suspect the HP slope needs some tweaking, as well as some level adjustments between the tweets and the L3Pros. But to be fair, I've been doing final adjustments with very dynamic recordings lately (Kaipa-Vittjar), which really exercises every conceivable part of the spectrum.....

I will say, that they brought that final OOMPH to the soundstage I'd been looking for, its just massive, huge... 

Its starting to sound better than my home 2 channel system, which is saying something


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

nanohead;
Its starting to sound better than my home 2 channel system said:


> Very nice update!!!
> 
> do you think you will need to bring in a next level tweeter for this?


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

Ha! Not sure yet. 

I have these I want to try, depending on how high I can get the L3Pros to run 

Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter | 275-095

I'm obsessed with that airy/floaty soundstage (like inside my head I guess, lots of air ), so I may wire these suckers in first


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

nanohead[/QUOTE said:


> According to the manual, it said it can go to 30K. So I am interested to see how far up it can go without hurting the sound. I will stay tune!


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

*Bump for more info...*


D.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

What else do you want to know? There's a lot of knowledge from Scott already in the thread... 

Kelvin


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> What else do you want to know? There's a lot of knowledge from Scott already in the thread...
> 
> Kelvin


I remember I read about them and that they have bad off-axis response but good on-axis, and you could cross them at 400 Hz and up? and no need for enclosure or IB instal 

Probably someone could tell us more about their experience and how they perform.

Also do you know if I could trade a couple of Hybrid tweeters and woofers that I have left from my last install?

Thank you.

D.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

derickveliz said:


> I remember I read about them and that they have bad off-axis response but good on-axis, and you could cross them at 400 Hz and up? and no need for enclosure or IB instal
> 
> Probably someone could tell us more about their experience and how they perform.
> 
> ...


400 hz is no problem. You will probably want a tweeter though. No enclosure is needed. I've done a few installs hanging them off the windshield with nothing more than a bracket. 

Hybrid has a trade in program that will give you up to 60% of your purchase price for your old equipment. Email me for details.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

derickveliz said:


> I remember I read about them and that they have bad off-axis response but good on-axis, and you could cross them at 400 Hz and up? and no need for enclosure or IB instal
> 
> Probably someone could tell us more about their experience and how they perform.
> 
> ...


You could try to contact Jason (thehatedguy), believe he's playing with those right now... 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I have them...haven't played with yet though


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

They are excellent sounding dome midranges. I use them in the a pillars aimed toward the rear view mirror in my car along with L1pro's in the sail panels. I've had people comment that it's the most detailed midrange they've heard in a car.
Caveats are that you need to use a mid that can play higher to mate with them, and that you do want to use a tweeter. Personally, for every day use I would try to stick around 400-500hz on the crossover. You can go lower for competition but use a steep slope.

They are really excellent and I would highly recommend them.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> They are excellent sounding dome midranges. I use them in the a pillars aimed toward the rear view mirror in my car along with L1pro's in the sail panels. I've had people comment that it's the most detailed midrange they've heard in a car.
> Caveats are that you need to use a mid that can play higher to mate with them, and that you do want to use a tweeter. Personally, for every day use I would try to stick around 400-500hz on the crossover. You can go lower for competition but use a steep slope.
> 
> They are really excellent and I would highly recommend them.


Just to get some more personal information out of your install. What kind of xover points did you use with the L1 Pro? Why L1 Pro specifically? 

Did you test the angles in any other directions with the L3 Pro?


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I have always been a fan of this speaker. Never have had a solid chance to hear it in a car audio environment. I think I am going to just have to get me a set of them and tweets and see how it all works out.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Just to get some more personal information out of your install. What kind of xover points did you use with the L1 Pro? Why L1 Pro specifically?
> 
> Did you test the angles in any other directions with the L3 Pro?



They are a good match from the standpoint of sensitivity as well as visually. They're a little less expensive than the L1proR2, but aren't quite as good on the high end as the R2. Still very good though. 

I've used a few different crossover points and slopes on them. This will all depend on your vehicle, the aiming angle in relation to your listening position (for the mids and tweeters), etc.

I've gone as low as 360hz/36db on the low end with a transition to the tweeters at 6.3khz/36db. I've also tried 500hz/3.6khz points and those work well also. It all depends on how much control you want over directivity, power response, etc. and the other drivers you are using in conjunction with them.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

I'd like to get these in people's hands. So we are offering 20% off until September 30th. I. Sure you will love them. 

The only catch is that we will not offer shipping on the same day. They will be shipped once a week at that price. I hope the does not inconvenience anyone. 

Here is the link to purchase: Legatia L3PRO Speaker Set - 12v Electronics

Use coupon code: L3PRO20


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice deal Tom.

People certainly picked up on the L3SE model when it came out but the L3PRO for whatever reason hasn't gotten the same love. I've always been confused by that. It's a crackin midrange and offers a much easier integration seeing as it has a sealed back chamber so no need to monkey around with an enclosure. It also looks fantastic- one of the very best out there in that regard, and it's fairly large for a dome so can play pretty low considering.I'm loving mine.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Nice deal Tom.
> 
> People certainly picked up on the L3SE model when it came out but the L3PRO for whatever reason hasn't gotten the same love. I've always been confused by that. It's a crackin midrange and offers a much easier integration seeing as it has a sealed back chamber so no need to monkey around with an enclosure. It also looks fantastic- one of the very best out there in that regard, and it's fairly large for a dome so can play pretty low considering.I'm loving mine.


Only thing I can figure is the slightly higher crossover point compared to a cone driver, although it's minimal. 

I know it's been some years since you tested all those 3"-4" drivers (much appreciated BTW), but where would you rank the L3 Pro in with all of them?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

fish said:


> Only thing I can figure is the slightly higher crossover point compared to a cone driver, although it's minimal.
> 
> I know it's been some years since you tested all those 3"-4" drivers (much appreciated BTW), but where would you rank the L3 Pro in with all of them?



It's a different animal than the others. The majority of the 3-4" drivers I tested were aimed at being a very wideband driver with the hopes of using them without tweeters. The dome mids don't extend quite as high as those other drivers. However, the L3pro's excel in the midrange department, and I determined I need a tweeter with my setup anyway as I just wasn't happy with the top end of even the best of the 3" drivers I used.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> It's a different animal than the others. The majority of the 3-4" drivers I tested were aimed at being a very wideband driver with the hopes of using them without tweeters. The dome mids don't extend quite as high as those other drivers. However, the L3pro's excel in the midrange department, and I determined I need a tweeter with my setup anyway as I just wasn't happy with the top end of even the best of the 3" drivers I used.


I'm with ya! I used the Fountek FR88EX tweeterless for a couple years, then switched to the Morel Integra 402 pointsource. Night & day difference!


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