# Ground-Zero... just rebranded gear?



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I started a thread yesterday, asking if anyone had experience with ZR Speaker Lab.








ZR Speaker Lab


I kinda hijacked another thread by commenting on ZR Speaker Lab components... figured I'd create a separate thread for discussion on this product line. https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/brax-speakers.431295/#post-5856303 ZR Speaker Lab is an ultra high-end designer / manufacturer, based in...




www.diymobileaudio.com





In the thread; I made reference that ZR had done the design (and probably manufactuing) for the Ground-Zero Reference Line of speakers.

As the thread progressed... it came to light that Ground-Zero doesn't actually design *ANY* of their products.
Instead, it seems they source other manufacturer's high-end gear, and rebrand / repackage it under their own name.

I'm not saying this is good or bad. The reality is that; the Ground-Zero gear is still VERY high-end.
Just a bit disappointed to find out that they don't design or build their own equipment...

Seems as though the mid-range Ground-Zero amps are made by a Russian company called: EOS





Усилитель E.O.S. AE-130.4 - Усилители







piti.ru





I can see on their site that they have a variant model of the G-Z Uranium Line of amps... with a few differences.
But I don't see that they make the G-Z Reference Line. Anyone know who makes the Reference amps for Ground-Zero?


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## cman (Aug 24, 2020)

Ground zero also rebrands eton mid range speakers in their plutonium line and other lines as well I’m sure.


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## cman (Aug 24, 2020)

Good topic, subbed to hear more. Not surprised though people would choose a rebranded ZR product considering the lack of marketing and info ZR has on their products...


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jimmydee said:


> I started a thread yesterday, asking if anyone had experience with ZR Speaker Lab.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The GZ Ref amps are made in the same factory as the EOS amps and are actually originally designed by the designer at EOS some old Russian dude... 

There are many references to the GZ ref amps to the EOS amps and its designer..

Google the review of the AE130.4... it’s mentioned in that review - you will have to look for the Russian reviews


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

If you Google the GZ tube amp and Google the EOS Verdi tube amp - they are almost identical... just at 50% less than the GZ version...

Good amp... I had 3 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Ya, there's no doubt that they are good quality amps.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

cman said:


> Ground zero also rebrands eton mid range speakers in their plutonium line and other lines as well I’m sure.


I don't hear a lot of talk about ETON drivers around here. I wonder why.

Ge0


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

a lot of manufacturers outsource there amps/speakers and rebadge them. abyss built amps for a certain amp maker and claimed it as there own at one time, happens all the time


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I think if we could see an accurate list of what companies don't design or build a dang thing that we would all be shocked and surprised.

Why re-invent the wheel?

Ge0


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Personally I don’t think GZ makes anything - there DSP is basically a old Zapco Z8 DSP...

I know a guy who has his own brand of car audio products who visited a few factories in
China to see what he can get...

The one factory was in a real dodgy area in China and was like a 3 storey building - he says you could eat off the floor it was so clean...

That factory built the EOS and GZ amps and a few other high end brand he didn’t want to divulge...

Any rate they mistakenly sent him a invoice which was for GZ Ref amps he said they where $300 a piece... min order of 100....

That’s a $2000 amp which GZ didn’t make...


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Elektra said:


> Personally I don’t think GZ makes anything - there DSP is basically a old Zapco Z8 DSP...
> 
> I know a guy who has his own brand of car audio products who visited a few factories in
> China to see what he can get...
> ...


Yep. There is a little bit of profit margin baked into that isn't there...

Ge0


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Ge0 said:


> Yep. There is a little bit of profit margin baked into that isn't there...
> 
> Ge0


there should be, its a big risk to bank $30k for 100 amps, they may retail for $2000 each but thats not what they are selling them for


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Porsche said:


> there should be, its a big risk to bank $30k for 100 amps, they may retail for $2000 each but thats not what they are selling them for


Understood. The initial distributor needs to sit on the stock pile until they are sold. That and there is the end dealer and their services to consider. Everyone needs to pull a profit to keep their respective businesses alive.

I've been manufacturing electronics long enough to understand that.

Ge0


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## ANS (Sep 23, 2011)

Porsche said:


> there should be, its a big risk to bank $30k for 100 amps, they may retail for $2000 each but thats not what they are selling them for


I agree. Several brands rebadge or customize products to fit their wants/needs. Several companies use the same designer and the products may look similar but are separate projects not related to each other. It is difficult to establish a distribution chain from the OEM down to the dealer, several overseas companies don't see the reward vs risk. If you are trying to purchase products from overseas to save money, I see nothing wrong with that, diymobileaudio is all about that type of consumer. Just realize how expensive shipping can be if you ever have any issues.

Several JL Audio speakers have been designed and made in Germany by an OEM company, I can't remember who. I thought it was ZR labs but I could be wrong.

If the average consumer realized that most brands have a margin of 100-150% they would feel ripped off but most consumers would fail to initially understand all the back end costs required which eat up the margin, especially storing products.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ge0 said:


> I don't hear a lot of talk about ETON drivers around here. I wonder why.
> 
> Ge0


because they stopped having any real distribution in the US for a while


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Porsche said:


> a lot of manufacturers outsource there amps/speakers and rebadge them. abyss built amps for a certain amp maker and claimed it as there own at one time, happens all the time


Those Abyss amps are stull nicer than the TRU amps... even the new ones.

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> because they stopped having any real distribution in the US for a while


Hmm.. Didn't know that. I seem to always see them available on Madisound.

Ge0


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ge0 said:


> Hmm.. Didn't know that. I seem to always see them available on Madisound.
> 
> Ge0


There was like a 4 year period where that had a very small selection of their stuff



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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

jimmydee said:


> Those Abyss amps are stull nicer than the TRU amps... even the new ones.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


i know


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## EmoJackson (Aug 13, 2018)

Is there a US Distributor for their stuff? I generally only seen Ebay and websites overseas.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

EmoJackson said:


> Is there a US Distributor for their stuff? I generally only seen Ebay and websites overseas.


Yes. They sell through brick and mortar in the US now, or so it seems. My Audiotec Fischer rep is also the rep for GZ/Sound Digital


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

Imitation is a form of flattery. Having said that, this has always been an incestuous industry especially amps. DLS comes to mind back in the day when they were pushing rebadged Genesis amps and doing quite well.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

Porsche said:


> a lot of manufacturers outsource there amps/speakers and rebadge them. abyss built amps for a certain amp maker and claimed it as there own at one time, happens all the time



I remember the pissing contest over this back in the good ole ECA days.

A little reading material for the youngster here > Our History

And yes Brand X is not all that great.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

evo9 said:


> I remember the pissing contest over this back in the good ole ECA days.
> 
> A little reading material for the youngster here > Our History
> 
> And yes Brand X is not all that great.


agreed, brand x has never built anything to compare to abyss


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

I wonder if Mercury Car Audio is made by the same company that makes Ground Zero


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ebrahim said:


> I wonder if Mercury Car Audio is made by the same company that makes Ground Zero


Mercury Audio; based out of Thailand... it certainly looks like a Ground-Zero / EOS amplifier:


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> Mercury Audio; based out of Thailand... it certainly looks like a Ground-Zero / EOS amplifier:
> View attachment 279584


Are their speakers also have some relationship with Ground Zero as well?

Thank you. 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

WTF... and this looks like a Sinfoni amp:


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ebrahim said:


> Are their speakers also have some relationship with Ground Zero as well?


No. The Ground-Zero reference speakers are designed (and probably made) by ZR Speaker Lab.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> No. The Ground-Zero reference speakers are designed (and probably made) by ZR Speaker Lab.


When I was in England  last year some major car audio stores were telling me that Mercury Car Audio had a relationship with a manufacture named Mirage. 

While others claim that ZR Labs had some involvement in Mercury Car Audio speakers. 


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## TommyDS (May 27, 2012)

Mirage Audio is a distributor/wholesaler/installer of car audio products, seems Mercury car audio is their own brand (even their contact address is the same) 
Some JL Audio speakers were produced by german company Ehmann Partner 
Russian EOS - i was in contact with them regarding buying some amps, bud that time (3-4months ago) they were out of stock for their higher range amps ( AE-130.4, AE-10EX Tube Verdi). There are also other brands using amps with same or similar layout, that are priced high - Harmotech, Bevalor & Vivaldi audio, B2 audio Ref 4, etc


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

As far as I know they dont do any of their own R&D...period. All rebranded stuff. For instance - their Reference amps have the same boards like a few other amps like Alphard Hydra..... difference is only in material used. ..... and they put a couple of cheap Mundorf white caps for a couple of bucks and folks start to rave and fall in delirium.......

I know also that relationship with ZR Speaker Lab was VERY VERY VERY unfair from GZ to ZR Speaker Lab....among other, there SHOULD be logo of ZR SpeakerLab printed on each and every speaker,....well you wont find any....
That is why I dont want to have nor one single piece of equipment from GZ in my posession...because of all of before mentioned and because of my personal experience with the firm


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

who cares, some of you act like this is something new or they are trying to pull something over on you, been happening for many many many years


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Porsche said:


> who cares, some of you act like this is something new or they are trying to pull something over on you, been happening for many many many years


Agreed.. Not every car audio brand has the means or desire to design every type of product. However, they do like to offer their customers a full line of equipment - so sometimes they have other companies manufacturer a product for them and put their name on it - just so they can offer a full range of products - all from a single brand. 

If the product performs well and they stand behind the product, that is all that really matters. If you want to save a few $$, you can buy the rebranded products from the original manufacturer, but then you have multiple "brands" to deal with when something goes wrong, etc... 

This type of thing happens in all fields for all types of products. For example, I'm in the IT field and even IBM re-brands products made by other manufacturers - like SAN switches, for example - they have IBM's name on them, but they are usually Brocade switches. Allows you to get all of your equipment from IBM and have it all under maintenance with IBM, etc.....


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jimmydee said:


> Mercury Audio; based out of Thailand... it certainly looks like a Ground-Zero / EOS amplifier:
> View attachment 279584


That amp is almost identical to the EOS AE-980F and AE-920T - at like 3 times the price compared to the EOS version... also Black Hydra has one that’s the same at 5 times the price 


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jimmydee said:


> WTF... and this looks like a Sinfoni amp:
> 
> View attachment 279587


Nice name....lol


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## ANS (Sep 23, 2011)

From a dealer perspective, Ground Zero has been a great company to work with within the USA. Their support has always been able to assist us, especially for warranty issues. They will send us a product for replacement before we even send the customers back.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ANS said:


> From a dealer perspective, Ground Zero has been a great company to work with within the USA. Their support has always been able to assist us, especially for warranty issues. They will send us a product for replacement before we even send the customers back.


These are some of the 'intangibles'... and good to hear.

I don't for one second, doubt the overall quality of Ground-Zero products. 
They offer really nice, high-end gear... they just don't design or manufacture it.


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## ANS (Sep 23, 2011)

LBaudio said:


> As far as I know they dont do any of their own R&D...period. All rebranded stuff. For instance - their Reference amps have the same boards like a few other amps like Alphard Hydra..... difference is only in material used. ..... and they put a couple of cheap Mundorf white caps for a couple of bucks and folks start to rave and fall in delirium.......
> 
> I know also that relationship with ZR Speaker Lab was VERY VERY VERY unfair from GZ to ZR Speaker Lab....among other, there SHOULD be logo of ZR SpeakerLab printed on each and every speaker,....well you wont find any....
> That is why I dont want to have nor one single piece of equipment from GZ in my posession...because of all of before mentioned and because of my personal experience with the firm


I'm curious about what you know, do mind expanding? What happened between Ground Zero and ZR Labs?


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## GMCtrk (Apr 14, 2018)

jimmydee said:


> WTF... and this looks like a Sinfoni amp:
> 
> View attachment 279587


Reminds me of people finding out years ago that Arc cxl amps weren't proprietary.


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## ANS (Sep 23, 2011)

GMCtrk said:


> Reminds me of people finding out years ago that Arc cxl amps weren't proprietary.


And still today Arc Audio amplifiers are designed by Nikola Engineering (Robert Zeff), who also designed several CDT Audio amplifiers for over a decade. The current CDT Audio ACD line is similar to the Arc Audio xdi/x2 line.


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## cman (Aug 24, 2020)

GMCtrk said:


> Reminds me of people finding out years ago that Arc cxl amps weren't proprietary.


or the arc components being made by sb acoustics... or the nvx components being made by sb acoustics.


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## cman (Aug 24, 2020)

But seriously... why can’t I buy one of those ground zero reference amps for $300? Jk I know we talked about this I only want one or two, not 300. Lol


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

cman said:


> But seriously... why can’t I buy one of those ground zero reference amps for $300? Jk I know we talked about this I only want one or two, not 300. Lol


Group Buy!


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## ANS (Sep 23, 2011)

jimmydee said:


> Group Buy!


If enough people were interested I could probably setup a group buy. I would have to special order the product.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

So who has heard the GZ Pure amps...


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