# Drawbacks to MiniDSP?



## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

So what are the drawbacks to the miniDSP? I've ready many threads now from people asking what DSP they should go with and every other DSP gets mentioned but miniDSP gets no love. I'm curious why? The reviews I've read on it here were positive. It's a very capable unit. Is it because it doesn't come in a box? Or are people just more comfortable going with a name brand unit like Helix, Rockford, Mosconi or Zapco? 

I'm looking to replace my MS-8 and would like to know why the miniDSP would be a lesser option than the others. Thanks.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Low output voltage, no native Bluetooth function like some have, no case unless you pay extra. None of wich I see as a problem for me, maybe the low voltage.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

From everything I've read, the low voltage would be my only issue as well. But the MS-8 only has 3 volts output also. I have a small stack of Pac Audio PDLC21s to run on the processor outputs. I haven't bothered to put them into the current install because I'll be changing the entire install in the near future.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

If you want to try it I have a miniDSP balance 2x4 and the miniDC that I would let go for cheap.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

etroze, did you replace that piece with something else? If so, why? What did you like or dislike about it?


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I want to do more than just 2way and I bought it before I did a lot of research and after doing some research I found I would have to buy a second one to make it possible. I will be trying out a PPI DSP88R as soon as my wife will give up her car for a weekend lol.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

lol, nice. I'm running a 3-way front with center channel now. My 8 channels of my MS-8 are all being worked. And I like the MS-8, but when I got it I thought I was over my desire to tweak and thought the set and forget all being done for me was the right answer. But after having it, there are adjustments I want to make that the MS-8 isn't capable of. Hence my upgrading. I'm still on the fence for whether I'll put the MS-8 in my wife's car or sell it and use a second processor to match whatever I put in my truck.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I'd hold onto it cause seems like every time I get rid of expensive equipment like that I find something that I could have used it in lol. Check out the programs that they use on their site they seem pretty user friendly but thats all I can atest to as I didn't get this one hookup up yet. Heck its still in the chineese labeled box it came in lol.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Nice. I'm mostly curious if people's basis for recommending specific DSPs are because it's the one they bought and they like and that's it. Or, have they used others or played with them in other people's cars and have an actual reason for why the suggest one over another. 

Either way, miniDSP gets little love and from the specs, it looks like a pretty capable unit. Which is why I'm hoping to get some real input as to why this piece is less desirable than others.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Ive owned and have set up'd alot of dsp's for clients. My favorites so far have been the Arc Audio dsp and the soundstream synthesis (minidsp based). The low voltage out on minidsp based units at first turned me off also, until i heard one. They are very nice and get the job done very easily. The noise floor is very low, so the low voltage out isnt a problem. I have the synthesis installed in my car and my wifes car. Great units! The Arc Audio dsp is another story... over the top bad ass is a good way to put it! The option to change out the op-amps to tailor the sound is a game changer for sure! Even with that being said, i would still be proud and happy with any minidsp product in my personal vehicle.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I myself am really into trying different products out. My friends and I seem to be changing our setups constantly so anything the is resonably priced I am all for trying.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

I like Arc products. I sat in a truck of theirs at MERA a couple years ago in Dallas. I think the Black line had just come out. In fact, I sat through the product training/demo seminar Arc put on for their processor. Was overly impressive to say the least. It was a brand new piece then. Not really even talked about outside of the Arc circle of trust. lol


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Amp power is relatively cheap, and the noise floor is low, so in my application I really don't see any downside of "low voltage output". I've never really been into spec-sheet bench racing though, so it doesn't bother me. I still have more than enough power to get to the SPL I want in my car. 

The main downside I see is that if you are running a pair of 2x4s, you can't tune them without swapping USB cables. The cost savings though is huge. 

etroze, shoot me a PM if you are serious about getting rid of that balanced 2x4. I keep trying to trick some of my PA guy friends into using them as a processor. I just need to 1U rack mount one and I think they will get the picture.


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

Airforceyooper said:


> So what are the drawbacks to the miniDSP? I've ready many threads now from people asking what DSP they should go with and every other DSP gets mentioned but miniDSP gets no love. I'm curious why? The reviews I've read on it here were positive. It's a very capable unit. Is it because it doesn't come in a box? Or are people just more comfortable going with a name brand unit like Helix, Rockford, Mosconi or Zapco?
> 
> I'm looking to replace my MS-8 and would like to know why the miniDSP would be a lesser option than the others. Thanks.


I tested some caraudio DSP, and the miniDSP 2x8 is the best I ever had and listened.

You can buy it with specific case and power supply for car use (see my signature for one exemple), so it is like every other DSP: plug and play.

The 2V output is not an issue, I have absolutely no noise at all with my setup. In fact, "line drivers" are only a thing in American setup, here in France we never use these and everything still works perfectly fine... That's what the gain setting on amps is for after all!

For me, the main drawback of using a miniDSP such as the 2x8 compared to other caraudio DSP, is that it is just focused on the sound processing/rendering. There is no fancy options like aux inputs, bluetooth, dolby surround, autotune, etc. It is just about sound quality, PERIOD.

So if you are just looking for a DSP which will give you the best sound quality possible, miniDSP are those you want. If you just want a fancy DSP with a lot of extra features but the sound isn't your main concerne, go somewhere else.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

One thing I forgot to mention is lead time. It seems like sometimes the lead time on components is forever. It look me two months to get a miniDC a while back because they were short on components. Shipping time is fine sometimes and mediocre others. It definitely isn't Amazon.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

ZeblodS said:


> I tested some caraudio DSP, and the miniDSP 2x8 is the best I ever had and listened.
> 
> You can buy it with specific case and power supply for car use (see my signature for one exemple), so it is like every other DSP: plug and play.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. I appreciate your input. It's interesting that you guys don't use line drivers. Maybe I'm just fooling myself, but when I add a line driver and drop the gains, everything sounds much better to me. The few customers of mine I've been able to convince to add a line driver have all believed it was worth it too. 

But I like your evaluation of the miniDSP. So far the miniDSP is looking pretty good.


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm using the Mini 2x4 on my front stage and pleased with it enough that I want to add another for my sub duties (should have alread done so)
etroze, we may need to talk if you haven't sold yours yet.....


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

After looking at the MiniDSP 2x8, the JBL MS-8 and the PPI DEQ-8 I bought the DEQ-8 yesterday. AFAIK the DEQ is a tweaked 2x8 and for <$400. it's an excellent buy IMO.

I had been fretting about only having 6 channels on my 80-PRS but problem solved and the DEQ has superior tuning capabilites...mind you I am a piker when it comes to set up so it's a long road ahead.


D.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

I have both the deq-8 and the soundstream synthesis (identical twins, just a different case)... they are minidsp based, 8 channel out, and both kick ass. I at first was going to run the 2x8 board, but then when isaw the PPI/SOUNDSTREAM units..... it was a no brainer. Ive experimented before with minidsp on my home system and was very impressed with ease of use, transparency and low noise floor. I have the synthesis in my car now (was running the ms8 prior), three way front stage and sub ... the front stage blows away the ms8. Now mind you... it was no easy task to get my soundstage dialed in but it was all worth it. There are plenty of posting on here to help you with getting time alignment right. Im still tweaking it on a daily basis and just recently got it to where the soundstage is very wide and seems as if it is being projected from far out in front of the car! Im a happy camper! The operating software is very easy to use and straightforward. If anybody has a questions or concerns about any of the minidsp based products...PM me and ill be more than happy to help you.


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

Donanon said:


> After looking at the MiniDSP 2x8, the JBL MS-8 and the PPI DEQ-8 I bought the DEQ-8 yesterday. AFAIK the DEQ is a tweaked 2x8 and for <$400. it's an excellent buy IMO.
> 
> I had been fretting about only having 6 channels on my 80-PRS but problem solved and the DEQ has superior tuning capabilites...mind you I am a piker when it comes to set up so it's a long road ahead.
> 
> ...


In fact, the DEQ-8 is a totally different and cheaper board than the 2x8 or 8x8. I own both and I can tell you that the result is really not at the same level.

Here's what I already said in another topic:



ZeblodS said:


> This is the miniDSP 2x8 board with the miniDIGI board on it for digital inputs (like the one in the Waveflex DSP A8):
> 
> 
> And this is the miniDSP board you have in the Soundstream Synthesis and the PPI DEQ-8:
> ...


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

I too have seen the difference between the different boards. ... but my ears hear no difference between them. And my opinion is based on first hand listening between the two. The 2x8 board is HUGE! Almost the size of a motherboard! In a car environment. .... the size is a limiting factor.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Calling the PPI/SOUNDSTREAM units a scam are pretty harsh words for a product that performs as stellar as they do.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Good post, ZeblodS

I am surprised to see those discrepancies between what the DEQ.8 specs say and your info on it.


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

hot9dog said:


> I too have seen the difference between the different boards. ... but my ears hear no difference between them. And my opinion is based on first hand listening between the two. The 2x8 board is HUGE! Almost the size of a motherboard! In a car environment. .... the size is a limiting factor.


Yes, it is huge: 13"x10"x2"





You can hear a difference: the 2x8 is a bit more dynamic, the stage is wider and more intelligible. You can grasp the fact that the output is a bit more precise, less blur.
A result that the 2x8 is the only DSP I ever listened which can achieve. It is clearly not at the same level as customary caraudio DSP, it is a step ahead.
The enhancement is more perceptible if you have also phase and group delay correction (FIR phase correction with miniSHARC, or signal convolution on a computer).




hot9dog said:


> Calling the PPI/SOUNDSTREAM units a scam are pretty harsh words for a product that performs as stellar as they do.


The fact that they advertise the PPI and the Soundstream with the technical spec of a 2x8 board, while the components embeded are 8 times less efficient, is a scam. 

If you buy a car which is advertised with 400hp, but has in fact only 150hp, you will say it is a scam as well because even is the car is great (interior, équipement, etc.), it doesn't match the spec you paid big bucks for.




1fishman said:


> Good post, ZeblodS
> 
> I am surprised to see those discrepancies between what the DEQ.8 specs say and your info on it.


I was surprised too... But I own both boards, references are written on the components and the datasheets with technical specifications of these components are available on Google. 
So yeah, the word is strong, but I really felt scammed...


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

One of the overall appeals of the miniDSP is that it is very DIY oriented. Nothing fancy about it with very functional software. Units and software can be combined to suit your needs but you have to want to spend the time. 2V output is not such a problem because my amps have both low and high level inputs. I am using the low with barely any amp gain on the sub, nothing on the other channels. It also plays well on the high level inputs with minimal amp gain. Their range is 50mV to 15V

Lots of software and arrangement options using the 2CH/2,1CH software. It is also compatible with the REW software so transferring EQ settings is easy and tempts you into endless paying around. So if you like tweaking your sound, then they are probably worth it.

Here is a not-so-good picture of how I incorporated into my setup. They are small and with two it is modular. They fit well on my rear-fold seats, shown down here looking through the trunk. The balanced units are designed to fasten to a flat surface. My cars stock Head Unit has BT/Aux/USB/SDcard/CD/DVD for inputs so I didn't need the fluff. I also found that you can extend the US cables with no issues so I can run those and the measurement setup outside the car comfortable for tuning.

However, I have not had the chance/resources to compare two types of DSP in the same setup. But I like my results.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm running a pair of 2x4's in my setup. Source is stock unit running a Navone 4ch LOC. Noise floor is probably the lowest I've ever heard it in my own vehicle. Way lower than a lot of the cars I've heard with the high dollar dsp's and fancy source unit. I blame that on bad gain structure though. I have plenty of power so the .9v outputs aren't an issue. The dsp is very dynamic and adds nothing to the sound from what I can tell. Far better than the Pioneer 3-way headunits I ran for several years. With minidsp you can choose between a 2.1, (2 channels plus sub) basic (31 band l/r graphic eq and basic crossovers), and advanced (6 bands of peq per output, 6 bands per input, and every crossover slope known to man so to speak. You can also take advantage of a bi-quad calculator). I use the advanced plug-in on one of the 2x4's for the frontstage and basic for sub.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

interesting thread.

it would explain the large bump in price from 2X4 to 2X8, and the idea that American car audio companies would cheap out on their versions due to price, makes sense.

If I was that picky that I'd want the 2X8 based on performance, I wouldn't be happy knowing I got bait-and-switched by the PPI/Soundstream bean counters.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Getting as much as possible for as little as possible is the American way. Most people won't be able to tell a difference between good parts and cheap parts. And even more people will never know that the Epsilon unit is said to be much cheaper version of a really good Asian made board. For those same reasons you're better off in the long run paying more for a better product at a small shop for yard or household equipment than you are going to a big box store. My aunt bought a John Deere riding mower from a small dealer and paid a pretty penny for it but it and the one before it lasted forever. My cousin bought a similar Deere from a big box store and it was falling apart within a few years. That's just one example of how a product that has the potential to be great can be ruined by someone only looking at the bottom line so they can have a couple more dollars in their pocket with each unit sold.


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

ZeblodS, thanks for the informative and eye-opening posts. After giving it some thought I've cancelled my DEQ-8 order and ordered a MiniDSP 2X8 with the pre-drilled case and 4-way plugin.

One thing I am not thrilled about is the size of the 2X8 but I'll snug it in somewhere.


D.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

As much as i like my PPI/SOUNDSTREAM DSP, ZeblodS did point out some very interesting technical differences between the two products. Im in the middle of the planning stages of my next build... and i have to be honest- im starting consider alternatives for processing. Just my thoughts as i sit and watch the monsoons roll into town.


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

Donanon said:


> ZeblodS, thanks for the informative and eye-opening posts. After giving it some thought I've cancelled my DEQ-8 order and ordered a MiniDSP 2X8 with the pre-drilled case and 4-way plugin.
> 
> One thing I am not thrilled about is the size of the 2X8 but I'll snug it in somewhere.
> 
> ...


Be carefull, you'll need an isolated 12V/12V power supply, and a good one, otherwise you'll have a lot of noises in a car environment!
Unfortunately, the isolated power supply available on the miniDSP website is not compatible with the 2x8 board because it consume too much power.

It would be a shame to have a really good board with a very very good S/N if you bring noises through the power supply...


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

ZeblodS said:


> Be carefull, you'll need an isolated 12V/12V power supply, and a good one, otherwise you'll have a lot of noises in a car environment!
> Unfortunately, the isolated power supply available on the miniDSP website is not compatible with the 2x8 board because it consume too much power.
> 
> It would be a shame to have a really good board with a very very good S/N if you bring noises through the power supply...


I thought the 8 output unit has the 12V isolator on board?


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

Kevin K said:


> I thought the 8 output unit has the 12V isolator on board?


Simple test: use an ohmmeter between the power input ground and all audio input/output grounds and you'll measure zero ohms. If it was really isolated, it should have been infinit ohms.

I also have read on different forums that the 2x8 have an onboard isolator, but my tests on my own board said otherwise.

The board have a DC convertor because it needs +/-15V, +5V and +3V for its components, but there is no isolation whatsoever...


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Kevin K said:


> I'm using the Mini 2x4 on my front stage and pleased with it enough that I want to add another for my sub duties (should have alread done so)
> etroze, we may need to talk if you haven't sold yours yet.....


No Sir I still have this unit available.


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

ZeblodS said:


> Simple test: use an ohmmeter between the power input ground and all audio input/output grounds and you'll measure zero ohms. If it was really isolated, it should have been infinit ohms.
> 
> I also have read on different forums that the 2x8 have an onboard isolator, but my tests on my own board said otherwise.
> 
> The board have a DC convertor because it needs +/-15V, +5V and +3V for its components, but there is no isolation whatsoever...


what DC 12v power supply do you recommend?


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

ZeblodS said:


> Simple test: use an ohmmeter between the power input ground and all audio input/output grounds and you'll measure zero ohms. If it was really isolated, it should have been infinit ohms.
> 
> I also have read on different forums that the 2x8 have an onboard isolator, but my tests on my own board said otherwise.
> 
> The board have a DC converter because it needs +/-15V, +5V and +3V for its components, but there is no isolation whatsoever...


I am surprised by this, as the miniDC has an "isolated DC-DC converter" as the backbone of the part, so I assumed they would have something similar. 

Regardless, I ran two balanced 2x4 boards off straight B+ feed in my car with no problems and no noise (other than turn on thump) for a couple months...


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

an inexpensive 12V DC to 12V DC converter able to handle at least 3 preamplifier components sucking down at least 1.5 amps each, would be say, 5 amp capacity.

5 amp DC to DC isolation does appear to be expensive, unless someone has an in with a Stinger or Navone Engineering or whoever might decide there was a market for this beast.

maybe even a board member that designs power supplies for his company? at the least, an easy solder project using a small run of PCB boards out of a Chinese order catalog...


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

quietfly said:


> what DC 12v power supply do you recommend?


I don't know good isolated DC power supply with very low electronic noise.
I have personally chosen to buy a ready-to-use solution: the Waveflex DSP A8, which consist of a 2x8 board (with miniDIGI option), a specific custom-made isolated PWM power supply, and a specific case for caraudio use. It's a bit expensive, but it works perfectly in car out of the box, no need to tinker to make it work. Plus the seller offers to help you setting up the DSP, you just need a microphone to measure your system.



94VG30DE said:


> I am surprised by this, as the miniDC has an "isolated DC-DC converter" as the backbone of the part, so I assumed they would have something similar.
> 
> Regardless, I ran two balanced 2x4 boards off straight B+ feed in my car with no problems and no noise (other than turn on thump) for a couple months...


Caraudio is not the main concern of miniDSP: their boards are mostly used in home systems. The potential market of caraudio probably don't justify the R&D cost for developing a specific DC isolator...



cajunner said:


> an inexpensive 12V DC to 12V DC converter able to handle at least 3 preamplifier components sucking down at least 1.5 amps each, would be say, 5 amp capacity.
> 
> 5 amp DC to DC isolation does appear to be expensive, unless someone has an in with a Stinger or Navone Engineering or whoever might decide there was a market for this beast.
> 
> maybe even a board member that designs power supplies for his company? at the least, an easy solder project using a small run of PCB boards out of a Chinese order catalog...


Just ensure that the DC isolator you will use are totally "electronic noise" free.
This is not always the case.


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

The 2x8 comes with a "1 x 12V universal power supply + DC connector" which AFAIK can be used in a car, I've sent a question on this issue to the Miniusb Devteam and I'll post any info I get.


D.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm pretty sure the component is spec'd >1kV isolation, but I can't seem to find the spec sheet in my Chrome history. I'll grab it when I get home. 

I know the miniDC it's isolated though, as I looked at replacing just the DC-DC converter when I toasted one due to over-current. It turned out that my cost for just the DC-DC was more expensive than buying a whole new miniDC from them, so I opted for the route that required no soldering


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

Donanon said:


> The 2x8 comes with a "1 x 12V universal power supply + DC connector" which AFAIK can be used in a car, I've sent a question on this issue to the Miniusb Devteam and I'll post any info I get.
> 
> 
> D.


It's a 110V~220V AC to 12V DC convertor, to plug on your wall socket at home.



94VG30DE said:


> I'm pretty sure the component is spec'd >1kV isolation, but I can't seem to find the spec sheet in my Chrome history. I'll grab it when I get home.
> 
> I know the miniDC it's isolated though, as I looked at replacing just the DC-DC converter when I toasted one due to over-current. It turned out that my cost for just the DC-DC was more expensive than buying a whole new miniDC from them, so I opted for the route that required no soldering


The miniDC is an isolated DC/DC power supply, but it is not compatible with the 2x8 board, because it use "a lot" more power than the 2x4 board.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

sub'd


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

Okay, here are two prospective 12 volt supplies recommended to me by Jim on the Mini-DSP forum:

SD-25A-12: MEAN WELL: Power Supplies & Wall Adapters


EC9B-12S12 Cincon | Mouser


And here is a 4.2 amp output 12 volt-12 volt version I found at Jameco: 

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_1537483_-1


All these look like they'll do the trick but I'm leaning toward the encapsulated Cincon (2.5 amp).

D.


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

The encapsulated Cincon seems to be a good choise, but see in the datasheet if it doesn't need other passive components to work (capacitors, resistors, diodes...).

In order to avoid electonic noises, you need two things:
- A good isolated power supply with very little electronic noise on the output,
- A metallic case grounded around the 2x8 board and the power supply (works like a faraday cage).


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

This morning I had the electrical Engineer at work take a look at the power supplies that I linked in my last post, he told me that either of them would be fine for this app. I asked him about the difference between the inexpensive Mean Well and expensive Cincom and he said that either will work as is and the spec is close enough that the Mean Well would work perfectly fine.



D.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

I really appreciate all the input on the miniDSP. Please keep throwing up info related to the DSP. I can't wait to get my hands on one and test it out.


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

So my MiniDSP 2X8 and my power supply (went with the Mean Well) are on the way and while thinking about how I will set things up I had a thought about fusing this gear. I think the fuse should go between the twelve volt lead from the car to the power supply...is this correct?

As for the fuse value I was thinking of trying 2.5amps but of course I am open to any and all suggestions.


D.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Please post your experience as you go along. I'd like to hear about how it all goes. 

As for your fusing question, anything connected to the battery needs to be fused at the battery. So if you're running a dedicated power wire to the battery for your power supply, it certainly needs to be fused at the battery. Go with a 2.5 amp and if you ever blow it, as long as your wires are all in good shape, up it to a 5 amp. The fuse at the battery is to protect the car in case the wire grounds out at some point and the wire starts to turn into a light bulb filament. 

Donanon ... do you have REW and test equipment?


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

ok, so I know I'm going off topic on my own thread here, but figured I'd just continue here rather than start another thread. This has been covered some in other threads and I've gone back to refresh my memory on the information, but how much of a difference is there from a miniDSP unit to the DEQ.8 or the Synthesis? 

From what I've read, the DEQ.8 and Synthesis are pretty much identical, yet somehow lower quality than the miniDSP. The come with power supplies and the miniDSP doesn't. They may or may not have different GUI/programmable capabilities than a miniDSP. 

Does anybody have any other input as to the difference between the DEQ.8 and Sythesis or their differences to the miniDSP?


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

"Donanon ... do you have REW and test equipment?"

I've ordered a measurement mic which I will use with the 2X8 and REW when I have everything set up. I also have a measuerment program on my Android tablet for mobile measurement and it is surprisingly accurate.

"how much of a difference is there from a miniDSP unit to the DEQ.8 or the Synthesis"

ZeblodS gave a very detailed answer to this question in Post #20 of this thread, it got me checking the difference between the three units and his info is dead on. The miniDSP is a bit more work but IMO and based on specs only it looks to be the superior processor...I have no way of directly comparing the three devices but my gut tells me I'm on the right track with the 2X8.


D.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Yeah, I'm leaning that way as well. I only brought up the other two from a business perspective. If I'm able to pull a profit on the DEQ.8 and/or Synthesis vs. miniDSP, I might have to go with one of those for business reasons. Maybe. I'm in talks with miniDSP on a dealer program to see what they might be able to do for me. If I can turn even a little profit from the miniDSP, I'll probably stick with that route. 

Would it be wrong to use a miniDSP in my car and then sell the other two to customers telling them it's the same thing just different companies? lol

I forgot he had posted that. Thanks for the reminder.


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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

If you wanted to go active with a 2-way front stage and a pair of subs using these you would need to run two 2x4s or one 2x8 right?


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

yes.


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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

Airforceyooper said:


> yes.


Thanks. This really has me considering going active as using these to handle processing is closer to my budget. I've got some more reading to do.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

If you decide to take the plunge, let us know how your experience goes.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

jamesjones said:


> Thanks. This really has me considering going active as using these to handle processing is closer to my budget. I've got some more reading to do.


got a 2x4 I'd let go for cheap if you want to go that way.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Airforceyooper said:


> Would it be wrong to use a miniDSP in my car and then sell the other two to customers telling them it's the same thing just different companies? lol


Yes, that is wrong. 

What you could do is run whatever you want in your own car, and then explain to customers why the other product is a better solution for _them_, if that is indeed the case. Better functionality, better packaging, better for end user rather than installer, whatever. Or, my suggestion is to run what you want to sell, so that you have intimate end-user knowledge of the product when it comes time to sell. The reason I can sell my product so hard is because I know every inch of it, what's good, what isn't, etc. It allows me to really steer any product discussions, which you can't do if you don't know the product you are selling.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Yeah, I meant that facetiously. My bad. I should have used an emoticon or something.


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## YukonXL04 (Mar 6, 2014)

etroze said:


> got a 2x4 I'd let go for cheap if you want to go that way.


Can you PM me a price?


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

etroze said:


> got a 2x4 I'd let go for cheap if you want to go that way.


Interested in that.


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## mrstop (Dec 15, 2009)

I have been looking at these for awhile. It seems the miniDSP based systems offer the best bang for the buck. I was all set to pull the trigger on the PPI DEQ.8, but fell upon some of the "drawbacks" mentioned earlier and I am now going back and forth.

I really like having a more drop in solution of the DEQ.8 vs the 2x8. The 2x8 needs a case and may or may not need a power supply so it will take more work/time to get up and running. In looking at specs, is it possible that the DEQ.8 may be more of a hybrid between the 2x8 and 2x4 components? I haven't heard or read complaints about the DEQ.8 or 2x4 sound or capability, so for my ears and application I'm not sure it will make a big difference. 

As for the PPI units being a "scam," for mislabeling their units I can't be so sure it is intentional or not. I am very unimpressed with their technical knowledge of the product (see my rant on the DEQ.8 thread).

Despite my misgivings about PPI, I will probably end up going the DEQ.8 route. It's hard to beat the much smaller and turnkey package than the 2x8.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

The apparent short comings listed here of the Deq.8 was the deciding factor for me in giving the DSP 88r a try before i spend big bucks on h-800 or a mini2x8 with a case and....


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

Although I ended going with 2 2x4 miniDSP, I also debated quite a long time. Really, if I could have gotten my hands of the DEQ8 at the time I might have gone that way. The overall convenience was a big factor and I have to keep reminding myself that, while on the highway, having the lowest S/N on the block sort of goes out the window. I saved about $100 plus going with the 2x4's and two miniDC power supplies. Plus I had the pleasure of being committed in the spirit or DIY. got my system dialed in pretty good and I couldn't be happier.


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## mrstop (Dec 15, 2009)

iamstubb said:


> Although I ended going with 2 2x4 miniDSP, I also debated quite a long time. I saved about $100 plus going with the 2x4's and two miniDC power supplies.


I have thought about the 2 2x4 route also. Were you able to mount the miniDC inside the 2x4 case? Also you are required to use 2 miniDC's with the balanced version? Decisions, decisions...


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

iamstubb said:


> Although I ended going with 2 2x4 miniDSP, I also debated quite a long time. Really, if I could have gotten my hands of the DEQ8 at the time I might have gone that way. The overall convenience was a big factor and I have to keep reminding myself that, while on the highway, having the lowest S/N on the block sort of goes out the window. I saved about $100 plus going with the 2x4's and two miniDC power supplies. Plus I had the pleasure of being committed in the spirit or DIY. got my system dialed in pretty good and I couldn't be happier.


Pics of your setup? descriptions?


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

I have a '12 Charger and they have the battery in the trunk so this was a little easier probably. But I used the back folding seats as the platform and installed the miniDC isolators under the trunk floor piece. there is a channel molded in that accommodates a rib on the floor but has enough headroom and perfectly fits the mini-DC when mounted on a 2x2 piece of wood. Here are pictures of my setup during the install. Not perfect but give you the idea.










I split the wood on the test setup, but you get the idea.


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## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

mrstop said:


> I have been looking at these for awhile. It seems the miniDSP based systems offer the best bang for the buck. I was all set to pull the trigger on the PPI DEQ.8, but fell upon some of the "drawbacks" mentioned earlier and I am now going back and forth.
> 
> I really like having a more drop in solution of the DEQ.8 vs the 2x8. The 2x8 needs a case and may or may not need a power supply so it will take more work/time to get up and running. In looking at specs, is it possible that the DEQ.8 may be more of a hybrid between the 2x8 and 2x4 components? I haven't heard or read complaints about the DEQ.8 or 2x4 sound or capability, so for my ears and application I'm not sure it will make a big difference.
> 
> ...


Waveflex DSP A8 = miniDSP 2x8 + case + power supply. Plug-and-play for use in a car


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

ZeblodS said:


> Waveflex DSP A8 = miniDSP 2x8 + case + power supply. Plug-and-play for use in a car


That A8 is pretty sweet but...That's over $1,000 US greenbacks! 

Mine cost $275


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

ZeblodS said:


> Waveflex DSP A8 = miniDSP 2x8 + case + power supply. Plug-and-play for use in a car


And they modified the VOL-FP volume controller to be mounted outside the 2x8 case. To date, even the miniDSP people themselves haven't seen this done successfully. I asked in the forums a few weeks ago.


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## mrstop (Dec 15, 2009)

ZeblodS said:


> Waveflex DSP A8 = miniDSP 2x8 + case + power supply. Plug-and-play for use in a car


Yes, but miniDSP 2x8 + case + power supply @ US$400 > Waveflex DSP A8 @ US$1000

I will give Waveflex credit though. The units look well thought out and documented, unlike PPI. The MCR remote is particularly interesting. It looks like the adapted an iteration of the miniDSP Vol-FP to a remote setup. 

That said, the Waveflex is a hefty premium over either the miniDSP 2x8 or DEQ.8. I don't know if the premium is our unfavorable exchange rates or Waveflex's cost/margin structure. While it looks very good, I'm not sure it is worth the premium being asked for the Waveflex especially considering the large form-factor.


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

iamstubb said:


> I have a '12 Charger and they have the battery in the trunk so this was a little easier probably. But I used the back folding seats as the platform and installed the miniDC isolators under the trunk floor piece. there is a channel molded in that accommodates a rib on the floor but has enough headroom and perfectly fits the mini-DC when mounted on a 2x2 piece of wood. Here are pictures of my setup during the install. Not perfect but give you the idea.


thanks for sharing!!! looks like a great setup!!


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

quietfly said:


> thanks for sharing!!! looks like a great setup!!


I am pretty happy with it. Still needs a few tweaks but overall I think it falls into the Best Bang for the Buck category. Did it all for about $1,000. Besides what you see, I used a PAC-Audio adapter for low level out from the OEM head unit, all Infinity Reference speakers to replace OEM (2x3.5"/4x(6"x9") and 1x 1062 sub, sealed) and NVX amp installation kit. The front door 6x9's are band passed at 70-250 so no use of the tweeter, The 3.5's in the dash are high passed at 250Hz. Got the speakers on clearance factory direct from Infinity so saved a bundle there. Future plans would be getting better speakers, but I'd have to spend a lot more money for better sound so I think I'll enjoy this for a while.


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

I have the 2x8 with the DIGI-FP card and VOL-FP. I have the UMIK-1 and REW too. 

I like it. Super easy to change settings, and experiment. The DIGI-FP essentially adds 2 processing channels of digital in (SPDIF,Toslink or AES-EBU) and 2 processing channels of digital out (SPDI,Toslink, or AES-EBU) with the ability to switch sources electronically. You could add third party dacs to get a total of 10 analog out, or even daisy chain two 2x8 together to get 16 channels. So it's great for esoteric builds. Sounds crazy but, I can easily use 10 channels. The software is very intuitive, even for first time users.

The downsides

1)No fancy processing, stereo only (the 2x4 card actually has more flexibility in this respect)
2)It's advertised like it should be able to use the car electrical system. But I think the reality, like mentioned above, is that a good isolated DC/DC converter is needed.
3)Size... We spend tons of time and use tons of space with door pods, kick panels, pillar pods, sub boxes, IB baffles, amp racks, false floors, ect and we are complaining about the size of this board? 
4)Really needs a good box that can protect it from potential interference.


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

Orion525iT where do you have your VOL-FP mounted. Ive seen conflicting reports that it can not be mounted remotely and that it can.

I plan on mounting the 2X8 inside the dash behind the head unit and running a 20cm cable to the VOL-FP. I bought some aluminum to build an enclosure for the 2X8 and talked with the electrical engineer at my work about making a low interference install. He said the alu. box was a good start and because I am dealing with noise sensitive circuitry enclosing the box in a separate Faraday shield would be a real benefit.

Ive been looking over different shield material and fine to medium metal speaker grill material is perfect. I will post photos on my build log if anyone is interested.

D.


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## MisterTee (Jul 8, 2014)

etroze said:


> I myself am really into trying different products out. My friends and I seem to be changing our setups constantly so anything the is resonably priced I am all for trying.



Is that still up for grabs?


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Donanon said:


> Orion525iT where do you have your VOL-FP mounted. Ive seen conflicting reports that it can not be mounted remotely and that it can.
> 
> I plan on mounting the 2X8 inside the dash behind the head unit and running a 20cm cable to the VOL-FP. I bought some aluminum to build an enclosure for the 2X8 and talked with the electrical engineer at my work about making a low interference install. He said the alu. box was a good start and because I am dealing with noise sensitive circuitry enclosing the box in a separate Faraday shield would be a real benefit.
> 
> D.


I haven't tried to remote mount, so I can't comment. I wonder too if people have different success rates depending upon rev # of the boards.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Donanon said:


> I will post photos on my build log if anyone is interested.
> 
> D.


Definitely interested.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

Ill give my vote for the PPI DEQ.8

Sure the miniDSP has some better DACs in it, but honestly, to me, the specs look better on paper but make no apparent difference in sound. The PPI documentation is incorrect in some of the specs and im amazed that it has never been corrected but again, no big deal, i knew what the real specs were before buying.

The difference in the software being parametric EQ vs graphic eq on the input channels is a wash. i actually prefer having the graphic EQ there instead of parametric. Its easier for me to do final curve adjustments after EQing flat using the parametric.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

DonutHands said:


> The difference in the software being parametric EQ vs graphic eq on the input channels is a wash.


I'm not sure I could disagree more on this statement. Given the choice, I can't imagine a use case where a 1/3 octave EQ would be more configurable than a 6-band parametric EQ would be. Somebody please correct me. When a 31band GEQ cost $200 and a driverack or something cost $400, then it made sense. When a $125 miniDSP can smoke the $200 dbx 231, I just don't know what world I am living in where people would still willingly reach for the fixed-Q gear.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Well, after all this research and planning, I'm probably going to be changing my mind on my use of miniDSP. Not for any technical reasons though. It's a business decision. I might be going with an ARC Audio PS8. I'm going to hold off on any decision until I go to Knowledgefest in August. I'll see what other options I might have at my disposal once I get there, but for now, the PS8 is taking the lead.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Airforceyooper said:


> Well, after all this research and planning, I'm probably going to be changing my mind on my use of miniDSP. Not for any technical reasons though. It's a business decision. I might be going with an ARC Audio PS8. I'm going to hold off on any decision until I go to Knowledgefest in August. I'll see what other options I might have at my disposal once I get there, but for now, the PS8 is taking the lead.


PS8 is one of the more powerful car audio-specific DSP products available right now. I just picked up a used one and can't wait to hook it up.


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

I was at Kfest a couple years ago when they unveiled it. I got to sit in on their initial demo/discussion about it. It was crazy impressive then. I'm just afraid of the cost being out of reach for most of my customer base.


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

Airforceyooper said:


> I was at Kfest a couple years ago when they unveiled it. I got to sit in on their initial demo/discussion about it. It was crazy impressive then. I'm just afraid of the cost being out of reach for most of my customer base.


Selling audio to the 1%! Nice work if you can get it!


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