# ALPINE INA-NAV-20 and INA-W910



## RoyAlpine

Hi,

Are they identical?
if not, What the difference between them?

Thanks


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## kustomkaraudio

Exactly the same.


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## bombzombie

Yeah, no difference. I've got a NAV20 in my truck.


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## Salad Fingers

My buddy at the rep firm for Alpine told me there is no difference other than the NAV20 doesn't have the Alpine logo on the face.


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## bombzombie

I have the NAV20, and it does have the Alpine logo at the top.


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## Salad Fingers

bombzombie said:


> I have the NAV20, and it does have the Alpine logo at the top.


Interesting, I wonder if he meant a different logo? Hmm... well, thanks for letting me know!


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## F16Falcon

There are no replacement parts for it. I think just to save $100 would not be enough for a throw away unit. It's a Chinese knockoff, it should be priced appropriately. If they come down to China prices say less then 25% of the Alpine price it might be worth checking out but I can't justify spending $400 for it, then tomorrow it breaks and it sits on a shelf in my closet. I wouldn't buy a fake Rolex either unless it was substantially less then a real one. But I've owned a real Rolex and a fake one before, then I've owned Alpine and I know from experience that as I'm driving around I would always know what I've actually got in the dash just like what I have on my wrist. Life is about the experience and I'm going to stick with Alpine and Rolex and Real Breasts. That's just who I am.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> There are no replacement parts for it. I think just to save $100 would not be enough for a throw away unit. It's a Chinese knockoff, it should be priced appropriately. If they come down to China prices say less then 25% of the Alpine price it might be worth checking out but I can't justify spending $400 for it, then tomorrow it breaks and it sits on a shelf in my closet. I wouldn't buy a fake Rolex either unless it was substantially less then a real one. But I've owned a real Rolex and a fake one before, then I've owned Alpine and I know from experience that as I'm driving around I would always know what I've actually got in the dash just like what I have on my wrist. Life is about the experience and I'm going to stick with Alpine and Rolex and Real Breasts. That's just who I am.


I don't think that your analogy is accurate, at all. The NAV-20 was for expeditors (i.e. dealerships), it isn't a knock off.


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## F16Falcon

I guess it really doesn't matter when you can't get parts for it. I've also been reading horror stories about them online.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> I guess it really doesn't matter when you can't get parts for it. I've also been reading horror stories about them online.


What do you mean can't get parts for it? They are the same parts as the W910.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> I guess it really doesn't matter when you can't get parts for it. I've also been reading horror stories about them online.


Can you link the horror stories?


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## F16Falcon

Just google, "problems with the chinese knockoff ina-nav20?"


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> Just google, "problems with the chinese knockoff ina-nav20?"


The only thing on the first page when I googled that was one person saying in broken English something about wishing they had the factory Scion radio.

Here is the back of my W910 box. Notice where it's made written at the bottom?


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## F16Falcon

china.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> china.


They're all made in China.


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## F16Falcon

they are made in china.


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## F16Falcon

when i goggled i found people having problems with their rear camera and using thier ipod (on the knockoff version) and there is no evidence the parts are interchangable, im just saying, im going to go with the alpine unit, if you want something nice, its worth a little extra.


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## Salad Fingers

What point are you trying to make?


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## F16Falcon

when i google i get horror stories like no rear view camera and ipod doesn't work. i havn't seen any evidence that the parts interchange, in fact it's not even listed in the parts catalogs. im just saying. if you want an alpine buy an alpine. anyway, as i had said, if i can get a nav20 for a couple hundred bucks, ok but ive seen people trying to pass them off as alpine for $900! they don't even come in an alpine box.


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## F16Falcon

that they are both made in china, what a coincidence!


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## Salad Fingers

If your goal is to confuse me, mission accomplished.


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## F16Falcon

i found a photo of the back of a nav20 box, actually the front, back and side..








Ha ha.. sorry, I couldn't resist the humor.


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## Salad Fingers

So then are you admitting that everything you said in your first post was BS?


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## F16Falcon

im saying i wouldn't buy a nav20 unless it was priced sub $200. there is no evidence that the parts are interchangeable, it's not listed in the parts catalog or the alpine website and there are people online that are complaining about problems with it. i just feel sorry for anyone who has spent more then 200 on one and i want to help those trying to compare it with alpine equipment.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> im saying i wouldn't buy a nav20 unless it was priced sub $200. there is no evidence that the parts are interchangeable, it's not listed in the parts catalog or the alpine website and there are people online that are complaining about problems with it. i just feel sorry for anyone who has spent more then 200 on one and i want to help those trying to compare it with alpine equipment.


You have provided absolutely ZERO proof for your statements, and it's really obnoxious that you are still pushing something that has no basis in truth. I work for an authorized Alpine dealer and when I talked to the rep firm/distributor for Alpine for the area they had them in stock and gave the answer I provided above for the difference. So post some proof or shut up.


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## F16Falcon

i'm obnoxious? why are you so intent on pushing this garbage? all anyone has to do is look through the alpine parts catalog, there is no nav20. if that's not enough they can simply google "problems with nav20" or they can simply look at the box it comes in or search for it on alpines website. which alpine dealer do you work for? can i have your phone number there? thanks


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## mjmarovi

I have a 910, and wow great deck, china thing has a much different meaning than it used to, most of the most advanced electronic manufacturing factories are in china, I wonder why? Maybe cause americans built the factories and designed the products alongsise Japan and Europe any many other places? 

And get off the parts catalogue, it's a DEALER PRODUCT!! of course it's not going to be in the catalogue, it's not really a production model, which is why it's not on the website either...funny how you make a thread and don't even mention the product not being on the website, your're being lazy and ignorant, just give it up. You look about as bad as the ppl that post on youtube telling others how their stereo sounds like crap and their's is better when they're juding on computer speakers through a damn video...


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## F16Falcon

i didn't make the thread. and yes the 910 is great, it's alpine and you can find it on the parts list because it's alpine.


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## jim walter

Hi Falcon,

I have no idea what you are saying about the Nav20 being a knockoff. This is a product designed, manufactured and marketed by Alpine as an expeditor version of the INA-W910. They are 99% identical and all parts including the harnesses are interchangeable between them.

Jim - Alpine


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## F16Falcon

sure Jim, please PM me your contact information at Alpine and i'll give you a call, OK?


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## mjmarovi

F16Falcon said:


> i didn't make the thread. and yes the 910 is great, it's alpine and you can find it on the parts list because it's alpine.


Obviously the 910 is on the parts list, that's not what I said, you can't find the NAV20, or on the website, as it's not a regular production model, which is exactly what I typed...

This thread might as well be locked for the OP as their question has now been well answered...

Falcon, whether you would save the money or not that's completely up to you...


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## F16Falcon

yah, i bet you want to lock it up. lets just let salad fingers provide us his information about his alpine dealership he wants to boast about... although, i am not holding my breath.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> sure Jim, please PM me your contact information at Alpine and i'll give you a call, OK?


You are really going to feel like an ass when this ends. Jim works for Alpine, there is no question. 



F16Falcon said:


> yah, i bet you want to lock it up. lets just let salad fingers provide us his information about his alpine dealership he wants to boast about... although, i am not holding my breath.


Haha, yea, like I'm lying about working at a place that sells Alpine. Boasting, that's funny. Read the info at the side and bottom of all of my posts and you'll find the name of the store. The shop number is (817)265-1282, I get there around 11 tomorrow after school. If you call between 10 and 11, you can ask Nick about me and our Alpine affiliation, though he wont know about the model head unit in question.


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## mjmarovi

F16Falcon said:


> yah, i bet you want to lock it up. lets just let salad fingers provide us his information about his alpine dealership he wants to boast about... although, i am not holding my breath.


You're really still carrying this on? The request to lock it up would only be for your own good to keep from being publicly embarrassed any further...


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## 6spdcoupe

F16Falcon said:


> yah, i bet you want to lock it up. lets just let salad fingers provide us his information about his alpine dealership he wants to boast about... although, i am not holding my breath.


It is Really quite simple, but I will refresh and lay out the *facts *for you...

Jim DOES work for Alpine.

SaladFingers Does work at an Alpine dealer.

The NAV20 IS a Real Alpine piece. Why is there no listing for it for You ? Simple .. YOU are a consumer. It is an expeditor unit as in what gets installed WITH your purchase of a car if the option is chosen. YOU do not buy it separate. YOU do not install it. YOU do not 'repair' it hence the lack of a parts list for YOU. 

Your petty semantics are humorous at best, but more along the lines of boredom.

If said semantics continue then your life here, on this very forum, will cease to exist. 

Pretty simple for ya ?


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## F16Falcon

6spdcoupe, i suppose you will toss me off for speaking my mind. but when i speak of availability i'm talking about going to alpine and saying, "hey man, i need my nav20 repaired". if you've been there coupe then i'm sure you realize they forward you to pacparts. as you know, you don't have to be an alpine dealer to look through the inventory and see that there is no reference to the nav20 or it being compatible with the w910. if there is then let me know, im just an alpine affecionado trying to find out whats really going on with this "unavailable model". all ive found is horror stories and people trying to peddle it.


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## 6spdcoupe

F16Falcon said:


> 6spdcoupe, i suppose you will toss me off for speaking my mind. but when i speak of availability i'm talking about going to alpine and saying, "hey man, i need my nav20 repaired". if you've been there coupe then i'm sure you realize they forward you to pacparts. as you know, you don't have to be an alpine dealer to look through the inventory and see that there is no reference to the nav20 or it being compatible with the w910. if there is then let me know, im just an alpine affecionado trying to find out whats really going on with this "unavailable model". all ive found is horror stories and people trying to peddle it.


 Speaking your mind is fine. Spurting off accusations and fallacies is not. 

If you had a Nav20 it would be already installed in your vehicle and done so by the dealership. You would Not get forwarded to Pacparts, but back to your dealership for repair.

At consumer level you cannot buy a nav20. Alpine dealers, unless they are expeditors, cannot buy a nav20. 

Simply put .. nav20 = expeditor model
w910 = consumer model


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## Darth SQ

6spdcoupe said:


> Speaking your mind is fine. Spurting off accusations and fallacies is not.
> 
> If you had a Nav20 it would be already installed in your vehicle and done so by the dealership. You would Not get forwarded to Pacparts, but back to your dealership for repair.
> 
> At consumer level you cannot buy a nav20. Alpine dealers, unless they are expeditors, cannot buy a nav20.
> 
> Simply put .. nav20 = expeditor model
> w910 = consumer model


It's like beating your head against the wall around here sometimes. :bash:

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> 6spdcoupe, i suppose you will toss me off for speaking my mind. but when i speak of availability i'm talking about going to alpine and saying, "hey man, i need my nav20 repaired". if you've been there coupe then i'm sure you realize they forward you to pacparts. as you know, you don't have to be an alpine dealer to look through the inventory and see that there is no reference to the nav20 or it being compatible with the w910. if there is then let me know, im just an alpine affecionado trying to find out whats really going on with this "unavailable model". all ive found is horror stories and people trying to peddle it.


WOW! I can't believe this is still going. You should know that Alpine would refer you to PacParts.com for any and all installation accessories and parts for all alpine models. That's how it works. Need a remote? Pacparts. Need a harness? Pacparts. Need a cage or a trim ring or an RCA preouts or AV in or out plug? You guessed it, PacmotherfuckingParts.com


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## F16Falcon

coupe, thanks for intervening. truth is i was just trying to get to the bottom of things. these nav20s ARE being sold to the public as we speak, in fact the market is being flooded with them which is why the fellow posed the question which started this thread. i'll call alpine tomorrow just to get the low down. if salad fingers shop is an alpine dealership as he claims then i'll be the first to apologize. fair enough? right then, gotta get some shut eye, GOOD night to everyone.


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## F16Falcon

well, i kept my word and went through alpine to locate "mobile sound systems" in arlington and in fact we checked all of the dallas/fort worth area and alpine has no dealers listed under that name or by that phone number. i never received an email from "dave at alpine" either.

i'm not trying to have the last word, im just saying i kept to my word and checked it out. if i missed something, feel free to bring it to my attention (without sarcasism) and i'll be sure to do the same. 

also, i know words can be hurtful and i don't have to ask, because i can tell that i've offended and so for that i apologize. i think maybe some of it came from the fact that every time i turn around someone throws the "i work(ed) at alpine card" in my face, so i probably had a knee jerk reaction from that. no has to work at alpine to have my respect. if you love alpine than we are already on the same page..


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## Salad Fingers

We aren't an Alpine direct dealer because they force the entire line on the direct dealers. I have worked for two direct dealers, and Mobile Sound Systems is a distribution dealer. This means that we buy what we want/need through the rep firm/distributor for the area, which is Audio Video Marketing in Dallas. Here is a link to their website...

Audio Video Marketing & Products | Home

...call tomorrow and talk to Eric Marsh. I've dealt with him for years and he knows me, although I doubt he'll appreciate the waste of his time. Personally I think it's pathetic that you actually spent your time today to try to prove some point that I don't know what I am talking about, but I guess if you don't have anything better to do then there is something to keep you busy for a few minutes. If that isn't enough for you, I guess I can take a picture of a packing slip from them that has Alpine products on it being sent to the shop as recently as last week. Whatever you want, but you're not going to win this one. You're wrong.

... and who is "Dave at Alpine"?


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## F16Falcon

no, i called, i did my part, now you need to apologize for calling me names (twice) and lying to me saying that you work for an authorized alpine dealer. if you can't do that then i'm done with you.


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## mjmarovi

Salad Fingers said:


> WOW! I can't believe this is still going. You should know that Alpine would refer you to PacParts.com for any and all installation accessories and parts for all alpine models. That's how it works. Need a remote? Pacparts. Need a harness? Pacparts. Need a cage or a trim ring or an RCA preouts or AV in or out plug? You guessed it, PacmotherfuckingParts.com


LMAO after reading that post, I can't believe this is still going on either but now I am checking in just for amusement....

btw....Alpine source and processing FTMFW! for whoever cares


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> no, i called, i did my part, now you need to apologize for calling me names (twice) and lying to me saying that you work for an authorized alpine dealer. if you can't do that then i'm done with you.


I'm not going to appologize for you being simple, and I didn't lie. I work or a shop that legitimately sells Alpine products with a full warranty. Don't. Relieve me? I've told you how to find out. I don't have to prove anything to you. I don't give a **** about you. I just want you to stop making false statements about **** you have no clue about.


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## Nasty02M3

Straight from the Alpine website - Perfect Fit install instructions for, wait for it... W910 and INA-NAV20! Same document... I suppose Alpine's now just giving install instructions for knock-offs 

http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/IM_KTX-CMO.pdf

"Included are all the parts needed to install your Alpine INA-NAV-10, INA-NAV-20, INA-W900, INA-W900BT, or INA-W910 Audio Video Navigation system"


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## Salad Fingers

Nasty02M3 said:


> Straight from the Alpine website - Perfect Fit install instructions for, wait for it... W910 and INA-NAV20! Same document... I suppose Alpine's now just giving install instructions for knock-offs
> 
> http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/IM_KTX-CMO.pdf
> 
> "Included are all the parts needed to install your Alpine INA-NAV-10, INA-NAV-20, INA-W900, INA-W900BT, or INA-W910 Audio Video Navigation system"


INTERESTING!!!!


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## subwoofery

F16Falcon said:


> no, i called, i did my part, now you need to apologize for calling me names (twice) and lying to me saying that you work for an authorized alpine dealer. if you can't do that then i'm done with you.


So did you call Alpine and ask for "Jim" (not Dave) to know if he's lying too?  
His position:_ Sound System Engineering_ 

Kelvin 

PS: crap I'm late for the party :mean:


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## What?

F16Falcon said:


> well, i kept my word and went through alpine to locate "mobile sound systems" in arlington and in fact we checked all of the dallas/fort worth area and alpine has no dealers listed under that name or by that phone number. i never received an email from "dave at alpine" either.


How many people have to tell you it is the same? 
<-- Alpine dealer that does show up on the Alpine dealer search. 
I have both the Alpine INA-W910 and the IVA-NAV-20 in stock. Same price. Which one do you want? They are the same except for the missing "INA-W910" on the lower right corner of the face. 
Mobile Sound Systems has been in the same location since at least the early 80's.


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## bombzombie

What? said:


> How many people have to tell you it is the same?
> <-- Alpine dealer that does show up on the Alpine dealer search.
> I have both the Alpine INA-W910 and the IVA-NAV-20 in stock. Same price. Which one do you want? They are the same except for the missing "INA-W910" on the lower right corner of the face.
> Mobile Sound Systems has been in the same location since at least the early 80's.


I have the NAV20. Been had it. It works great in all functions. I think F16 may be confused. There were complaints about the NAV10 or W900 but that is a different unit. It came in an Alpine box and has the Alpine logo at top. Further, I have owned the W200, W205 and W505....all excellents units. Since the 200, I have never once had to send a unit in for repair. Without more verifiable information, I've got to advise my fellow DIYMAers to do as they see on MythBusters. MYTH BUSTED! It isn't personal but what you are spouting is not true. It happened to me with regard to some sound deadening techniques I like to use to this day but faced with facts I conceded that the acoustic properties just were unsupported. I still like my methods for thermal reasons but part of my contention was simply wrong, like part of your contention is here. Feel free to check out my build that can be found by searching me. The nav20 is displayed working and still work today as I leave the office to go hop in my truck to go watch some SXSW concerts. Life is too short. It's time to move on.


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## ougrad1

I can vouch for salad fingers as a legit dealer of Alpine, hertz, audison, morel...etc and knows his ****. 

He and Nick are very honest and upfront guys who are extremely well informed.

Travis, 

I know it's been a while but I'm still loving my hertz mille and audison lr5 in my land rover, buddy!


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## bnice945

All I have to say is I just bought the INA-NAV-20. I put it in my charger and I have to say I love it. I gave my iXA-W407 to my wife. The INA-NAV-20 fit right in to my car. I didn't change the power cable used the one from the iXA-W407 "didn't want to hook the PAC TR-7 back up again" and it came up fine. Also useing my Alpine cd changer and Alpine Dvd changer both with Ai-NET cable and they work great. If this isn't a true Alpine unit then something is wrong. If it is a knock off then I like my knock off. THE IPod function works great, it's faster than the iXA-W407 was. Also the iXA-W407 would have a little skip in music from the iPod after first turning it on. The INA-NAV-20 doesn't do that. I have notice that the INA-NAV-20 works better in every way compared to my iXA-W407. Not saying the iXA-W407 was a bad product, I just notice that enhancements. My wife loves the iXA-W407 and I had it for over 2 years. I'm posting this for anyone who in thinking about buying the INA-NAV-20. Works great, I love it and would buy it again. Yes I saved a couple hundred bucks and yes I would buy it again.


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## Salad Fingers

ougrad1 said:


> I can vouch for salad fingers as a legit dealer of Alpine, hertz, audison, morel...etc and knows his ****.
> 
> He and Nick are very honest and upfront guys who are extremely well informed.
> 
> Travis,
> 
> I know it's been a while but I'm still loving my hertz mille and audison lr5 in my land rover, buddy!


Hey Lu!!!! Thanks man, and I'm so happy that you are still loving the system!!

Travis


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## F16Falcon

<WHAT?
<1. "How many people have to tell you it is the same?"
<2. "Alpine dealer that does show up on the Alpine dealer search."

Hello <WHAT?>,
1. I think we can all agree it's not the same, we are just trying to figure out how many different ways... I'm just saying, does it stop with the box? The faceplate? No available replacement parts? or is it the price? Let's see, how about the people having problems with it? Saying it's the same? Come on, get real.. please post something besides rhetoric. 

2. I checked to verify and they are not listed on Alpines site under Fort Worth or Dallas stores. Maybe I have the location wrong? Please be a sport and post the link and set me straight.

BTW, never did get that contact info from "Dave, the alpine worker" either. Everyone and there mother is an Alpine employee now and every Alpine knockoff is an authentic Alpine too.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> <WHAT?
> <1. "How many people have to tell you it is the same?"
> <2. "Alpine dealer that does show up on the Alpine dealer search."
> 
> Hello <WHAT?>,
> 1. I think we can all agree it's not the same, we are just trying to figure out how many different ways... I'm just saying, does it stop with the box? The faceplate? No available replacement parts? or is it the price? Let's see, how about the people having problems with it? Saying it's the same? Come on, get real.. please post something besides rhetoric.
> 
> 2. I checked to verify and they are not listed on Alpines site under Fort Worth or Dallas stores. Maybe I have the location wrong? Please be a sport and post the link and set me straight.
> 
> BTW, never did get that contact info from "Dave, the alpine worker" either. Everyone and there mother is an Alpine employee now and every Alpine knockoff is an authentic Alpine too.


Woooow, back from the dead over a month later just to find out that you are still as challenged as before!! Did you even read anything that was posted by anyone but you? 

Do you realize that you have still never once posted even the tiniest sliver of evidence to support your claims? 

If you can't just take a look at the information that has been provided to you by everyone in this thread and tell that they are the same, then I think you just aren't capable of understanding it. So, if that is the case, will you please just go away for good like it seemed like you had before?


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## F16Falcon

Please, no more rhetoric. If you are listed in the Alpine site as an authorized dealer then post the link from Alpine.com... it's that easy, end of games.

If Jim works for Alpine, let him send his contact information. I'll be glad to spend the time and contact him by phone and come back and post the findings.

<Nasty02M3
Alpines support website address is not "support.alpine-usa.com", it's "http://www.alpine-usa.com/support" 

I only brought it up again because people keep challenging me on something I've already proven. 

I'm not wanting to rub your nose in it, after all, you are the one who resorted to name calling and all that childish stuff. I'm only trying to get to the truth. That's all, I took the time to investigate your claims and they were false. So, just let it go... and that will be fine with me. 

Anyone that googles alpine nav20 will see this posting and your bragging about being an Authorized Alpine Dealer and it only takes a minute to go to Alpine.com and see that you have lied to everyone here... so be a man, apologize and don't do it again and no one will think the worse of you. But to go on and on and on, well, it's egg on your face my friend, not mine.

And again, if I have missed the link, then post it.. we are all waiting...


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## subwoofery

subwoofery said:


> So did you call Alpine and ask for "Jim" (not Dave) to know if he's lying too?
> His position:_ Sound System Engineering_
> 
> Kelvin
> 
> PS: crap I'm late for the party :mean:


Since you're bringing it back again, did you contact JIM WALTER like I suggested? He even posted in the thread... 

Seems like you have a lot of time on your hands and suggest you give Alpine USA a call... 

Kelvin


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## F16Falcon

Saladfingers, just to be a sport and show no hard feelings I went ahead and googled as I said I did when we first started talking. 

Here is the link-
Hello, I just purchased an Alpine Ina Nav20. The shop I bought - JustAnswer

And if you want to go around telling people that you work for an authorized alpine dealer and you don't mind the fact that anyone can go to Alpine.com and see that you don't, then fine, if you can live with that, then I won't argue with you any more about it, I was just hoping that instead of mincing words or denying what you said, that you would have just thanked me for clarifying your infraction and I would have said, "no problem".

For what it's worth, I'm just a little disappointed. Not at anyone here, but mostly at whoever is actually selling these things on eBay. If it's Alpine, that's fine. But I am not happy that they don't have the Alpine branding and box and the ambiguity of it all and whoever is flooding eBay with these. If they are for dealers to install at their shop and then make a profit, then great! But don't order them and sell them out the back door on eBay. It just goes against Alpines reputation for being the best. It undermines Alpines product and reputation in my humble opinion. While I'm venting, I'm also disappointed when I hear people who just want to "save money". If you want something good, then pay for it. There is satisfaction in getting what you paid for. It's a real issue nowadays. Everyone wants everything given to them and they are not satisfied, simply because, their is no greater satisfaction then saving up for something until you can afford it. Anyway, that's my way of trying to bow out of this mess gracefully, if there is any such way. I didn't start out to offend anyone, I only wanted to know the truth and I always investigate, if it's something that matters to me, which this does. So if you tell me you work at Alpine or you are an Alpine dealer, well, I'm going to verify it, simply because I hear that all the time, more often, then not... If someone wants to talk with me I try to be approachable but I take words seriously, if your brand new or if you own alpine, I will treat you with the same respect, just don't lie to me, I hate that. That's all. Just don't lie.


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## F16Falcon

<Since you're bringing it back again, did you contact JIM WALTER like I <suggested? He even posted in the thread... 

<Seems like you have a lot of time on your hands and suggest you give Alpine <USA a call... 

<Kelvin

As I said Kelvin, yes, I contacted Alpine and they said saladfingers is not a dealer and I did contact Jim and ask him for his work information and he never responded...

Thanks, Falcon


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## F16Falcon

Kelvin, this is the only post I see from "Jim"-

>Hi Falcon,
>I have no idea what you are saying about the Nav20 being a knockoff. This is a >product designed, manufactured and marketed by Alpine as an expeditor >version of the INA-W910. They are 99% identical and all parts including the >harnesses are interchangeable between them.
>Jim - Alpine

Unless your talking about another thread that I'm unaware of. He never contacted me with his work number or I didn't get any email if he did...


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## subwoofery

Just to save you some time searching, he responded in this thread on page 2. 


jim walter said:


> Hi Falcon,
> 
> I have no idea what you are saying about the Nav20 being a knockoff. This is a product designed, manufactured and marketed by Alpine as an expeditor version of the INA-W910. They are 99% identical and all parts including the harnesses are interchangeable between them.
> 
> Jim - Alpine


And before you call him a liar, here's a few links that came up on google about him working for Alpine: 
Jim Walter on Alpine Subwoofers, smwtms Captured on Ustream:SMWTMS Meeting 3/10/2012 Other Technology 
SoundMan Car Audio - View Video Feed - Amplified episode 16 "Training Day" @SoundManCA 
Jim Walter | LinkedIn 
Southeastern Michigan Woofer and Tweeter Marching Society 
PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Power Trip 

If you really want to know whether the INA-20 is a knockoff or not, YOU are the one that should send Jim a PM, not the other way around. 
Ok he did reply in this thread, but he might not follow everything happening on this forum. He could be a very busy man too... 

Kelvin 

Edit: if Jim said the INA-20 is made by Alpine, I believe him


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## F16Falcon

Whoa! no one called Jim a liar. I simply said I have asked him to email me in this thread so I could verify it.


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## F16Falcon

Kelvin, yes, I can see by the video that Jim is more then likely who he says he is. I sure would like to talk with him about the market being flooded with nav20s. In fact, I would like to pick his brain about a lot of things going on at Alpine. Like , why are the replacement parts for many of the speakers currently being sold like the SPX-17PRO already discontinued? It's crazy. But then Alpine has a crazy reputation. I remember buying the first Alpine all digital radio that went out the first week and Alpine instead of refunding the money just started sending me more radios, five in all. That was great, all my friends had new alpine radios and then a month later they were all mad because they all went out again. That must have been in 76? I don't know if Jim was even born then,, ha! And what happened to the $3500 SPX-Z17s? And look at the Alpines they have in Japan! I mean, who can make sense of it all? Yeah, I have lots of questions for 'ol Jim. I guess he knows that.. and so we get..silence. 

Also, why does Alpine post specs and then the products when they arrive have different ones? Not upset, I still love Alpines but what's up with all that? Does Alpine think we can't read the specs?

Here is a cut and paste from Alpines website on the SPX-17PRO-

"Frequency Response: 35Hz - 60kHz"

Now, go look at your boxed set and it says "35hz - 40khz"

And this has been going on for years.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> Please, no more rhetoric. If you are listed in the Alpine site as an authorized dealer then post the link from Alpine.com... it's that easy, end of games.
> 
> If Jim works for Alpine, let him send his contact information. I'll be glad to spend the time and contact him by phone and come back and post the findings.
> 
> <Nasty02M3
> Alpines support website address is not "support.alpine-usa.com", it's "http://www.alpine-usa.com/support"
> 
> I only brought it up again because people keep challenging me on something I've already proven.
> 
> I'm not wanting to rub your nose in it, after all, you are the one who resorted to name calling and all that childish stuff. I'm only trying to get to the truth. That's all, I took the time to investigate your claims and they were false. So, just let it go... and that will be fine with me.
> 
> Anyone that googles alpine nav20 will see this posting and your bragging about being an Authorized Alpine Dealer and it only takes a minute to go to Alpine.com and see that you have lied to everyone here... so be a man, apologize and don't do it again and no one will think the worse of you. But to go on and on and on, well, it's egg on your face my friend, not mine.
> 
> And again, if I have missed the link, then post it.. we are all waiting...


Nobody here has questioned whether I can sell Alpine products legitimately except for you because they know I can. I know I can. I don't even care that I can as it isn't any special honer, I just can and have been able to for years. Bragging? Ha, not even close. That isn't anything to brag about. There isn't anything special about a shop that carries Alpine products. Brands that do indicate that the level of the shop carrying them is of quality would be like Focal, Morel, and Audison/Hertz. We are authorized dealers of all of those brands as well, and we ARE on those dealer locators because we are a direct dealer with them. In contrast, with Alpine as I said before, we are NOT direct with them. We are a distribution dealer, meaning we wouldn't be on the dealer locator. I told you how the industry works in that respect because I am IN the industry. It's clear that you are not, and just want to ignore the information and evidence being presented to you.

You are so insignificant that I don't even care if you (because no one else if even doubting it) believe me or not. I explained to you why we don't show up on the Alpine website and provided you with the information about the Alpine rep firm for the area including the phone number and who to talk to. I really just think that you are deliberately ignoring this avenue that I've given you because you have created a fictional, alternate reality where other people believe that your unproven, arbitrary claims are true. I googled it like you said long ago and as I wrote then, I didn't see anything that even hinted what you talked about and asked you to post links.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> Saladfingers, just to be a sport and show no hard feelings I went ahead and googled as I said I did when we first started talking.
> 
> Here is the link-
> Hello, I just purchased an Alpine Ina Nav20. The shop I bought - JustAnswer


So that's your "proof"? Really? One person asking a question because album art isn't showing up? That is weak dude, weak. There is far more evidence here in this thread that they are indeed the same than this one person asking a question. Give it up man, this isn't even fun anymore. Why don't you just call Alpine and ask them if they are the same?


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## F16Falcon

>In contrast, with Alpine as I said before, we are NOT direct with them.

Well, it's about time. Thanks for clarifying that. That wasn't so hard now was it? Honesty always is the best policy. It's always easy to get carried away and it takes a big man to admit they lied. So, I'm proud of you.


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> >In contrast, with Alpine as I said before, we are NOT direct with them.
> 
> Well, it's about time. Thanks for clarifying that. That wasn't so hard now was it? Honesty always is the best policy. It's always easy to get carried away and it takes a big man to admit they lied. So, I'm proud of you.


Are you literally retarded? I explained that long ago. I think you should re-read this entire thread.


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## F16Falcon

Oh yeah Saladfingers, I can see where you've called me many names, it's like dealing with a child, but that's OK, I love children. I was only hoping you could be a little more honest because it has been a little more trouble getting the truth out of you then it should have been but that's OK. Again, you are making progress and that's good. Just remember, never lie and then no one can call you out on it. Honesty is the best policy.


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## Darth SQ

F16Falcon said:


> Oh yeah Saladfingers, I can see where you've called me many names, it's like dealing with a child, but that's OK, I love children. I was only hoping you could be a little more honest because it has been a little more trouble getting the truth out of you then it should have been but that's OK. Again, you are making progress and that's good. Just remember, never lie and then no one can call you out on it. Honesty is the best policy.


Ok stop.
Now you're just being a troll.
Three pages of everyone including admins trying to convince you of something I figured out on my own on page one and I don't even own Alpine.

Time to find a new thread.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Salad Fingers

F16Falcon said:


> Oh yeah Saladfingers, I can see where you've called me many names, it's like dealing with a child, but that's OK, I love children. I was only hoping you could be a little more honest because it has been a little more trouble getting the truth out of you then it should have been but that's OK. Again, you are making progress and that's good. Just remember, never lie and then no one can call you out on it. Honesty is the best policy.


I'm really at a loss for words here. While I do think that you lack the capacity to understand this, I think the bigger issue is your unwillingness to accept what is being said. 

In all seriousness, insults aside, READ THE ****ING THREAD! I told you all the same stuff about the difference between a direct dealer and a distribution dealer. I never claimed to be on the dealer locator, and I never said that the shop was a DIRECT dealer. I said we are an authorized dealer, through dristribution. When I need to order an Alpine product, I call the local rep firm/distributor AVS (I said all this before, but since you still refuse to read it, I'll repeat it). If I have a warranty issue, I do the same thing that every other Alpine dealer does and send it in to the Alpine warranty center in Cypress, CA with a copy of the original purchase receipt from my store. I just did it last month with my D106 flip out and it was repaired under warranty at no charge (I still have the repair sheet with our store on it and no charge, if you'd like me to scan it). 

Please, PLEASE stop this madness.


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## F16Falcon

Bret, I would have never posted a reply to that but as you can see he just wants to keep it rolling. Or, how did you say? Trolling?


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## jkrob21

This thread cracked me up! I stumbled across it while searching for a nav 20 myself.


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## sean_517

Not to stir all this up again but SOME of you seem to know what you are talking about... 

I went into a dealer today looking to pick up an INA-W910 and was told that they also carry the IVA-NAV-20. When I asked what the difference was their sales guy told me that the NAV20 was a newer version, running better software and the most up to date maps. Is this a possibility or was he misinformed/misleading. I understand that these are essentially the same unit, but just wanted to know if there is any truth to his selling point. 

Thanks for any help.


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## What?

Easy way to tell. Map and software versions can be seen in the menus.


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## jim walter

There was a Bluetooth update for the chipset, but I am unaware of a navi update. Hardware wise, they are the same. 

Jim


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## evo9

F16Falcon said:


> sure Jim, please PM me your contact information at Alpine and i'll give you a call, OK?


You are a dumbass. Eclipse did the same. AVN700 = AVN70D, AVN726E = AVN76D. You do know that Alpine, Eclipse, Panasonic & Pioneer to name a few supplies OEM radios to the auto makers? Some of the OEM radios would work with the BRANDED accessories with or without an adaptor.


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## scotty2541

jim walter said:


> Hi Falcon,
> 
> I have no idea what you are saying about the Nav20 being a knockoff. This is a product designed, manufactured and marketed by Alpine as an expeditor version of the INA-W910. They are 99% identical and all parts including the harnesses are interchangeable between them.
> 
> Jim - Alpine


Jim, I can verify that the Nav 20 is Alpine. However, I have to contest your statement about all the cables being interchangeable.
After Tesla Motors had to replace my 910 about 3 times, Alpine sent a Nav 20. The service guys spent over a day having to re-wire and modify for different cables.
And they sat on hold with Alpine support for over 90 minutes before giving up because no one would pick up the phone.
Plus, to rub salt in the wounds, it appears I now have a replacement unit with LESS features, as there is no XM radio anymore.

I really have not had a good experience with your company.

-Scott Weber


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## spaceace60

wow im glad im not the only one to get slammed by someone clueless who just didn't get the picture lol! i skipped through these posts and only took me 2 mins to understand that the nav20 was the same unit as the w910 just offered to car dealers(or whatever?) same as how winchester/remmington used to sell Sears guns and ammo that had Ted Williams or or something stamped/rebadged on them However we all know Sears doesn't make guns or ammo ect they just threw a famous sports name on it and resold the stuff!! or in audio world like PPi did for Crutchfield a long time ago!! not hard to figure out!! but ya i listed an amp forsale on an audio forum and once 1 person made a dumb comment 20 others joined in on the mob mentality and backed that dumbass up!! i was dumbfounded to say the least! site was Pheonix gold forum if you wanna checkout the most F'd up (heated battles) post i tried to sell a Pg Octane Le. on Pg Phorum(same user name btw!) and got 30 pages of idiot responses! just for what its worth its the most childish bunch of morons i've ever encountered on any type of forums!!! and i love Pg stuff!!! apparently there are no moderators on that site as a dozen members woulda got booted over that mess! just imagine arguing with 20 F16 falcons(atleast his coulda been excused as just not seeing whole picture?)but i dealt with straight up d^ckheads lol! if anyone tops my forum battle i'd love to read it!!! SERIOUSLY!!


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## Flinchy

awesome! thankyou so much to this thread

had no idea there was a renamed W910... had a quick look and bam, $100-$150 cheaper than the W910's have been going for.. 

excellent news given how hard it is to find a damn W910 right now!


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## nakedwelder

I have a nav-20 I bought on Ebay for about 650.00 like 3 years ago It is a long project. So far I can not get the system set up to work. I have done the brake/ ebrake thing and reset it several times but just nothing happens. all I still get is the sound adjusting pages.
Is it possible I missed something or is this possibly a common problem?


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## BillC

I scored a nav20 for 50 bucks on eBay, about 150 in cables, connectors, bypass, etc and it's great (100 of this cost was the kwe-610 proprietary optical cable. I noticed very few if any differences between this and my buddy's ina-w910.


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