# Best frequency to tune a vented box to in a Chevy Avalanche?



## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

Ok guys, my son is wanting to add one more 12" to his truck. He has already got 2x12" pioneer premeir ts-w3002d4's in there now. Pioneer recomends a 1.2 cube foot box for each. I was planning on putting the three in one box (with partitions of course) in the place of the mid gate pointed towards the tailgate. I want to vent the box so I figured point the vent the same way as the subs. 
*My question is what frequency should I tune the box too?* 
I have read alot and some say rap music won't go below 40hz and others say it goes down to 25hz. So which is it? I want to give him the properly tuned box for his rap music. He likes the bass hard and wants to feel it in his chest...Thanks in advance.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

If he likes rap and modern pop music he probably doesn't care much about SQ. I'd tune in the low-mid 40s and implement a sub sonic filter in the mid 30s (a WinISD model would help). The higher you tune it the louder it will be. But if you tune too high the box will start to be very boomy and won't sound good at all.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

The really low rap tones will get down to 30 hz or so. But realize that that subwoofer has a rather high Qts of .65 and so wouldn't sound as good in a ported box as a simple smaller sealed box.

As for feeling it in your chest, it's a common misconception that deep bass hits you in your chest. That kind of thump is actually best accomplished with higher bass notes. I know in my car I use a JBL P1224 in a sealed box, it's a hatchback and with the subwoofers in the same cabin, and the JBL known for it's very good response even into the midbass region the subwoofer will definitely hit you more in the chest than subwoofers incapable of midbass reproduction. To exxagerate the feeling yup tune your ported enclosure to mid to high 40's. I did this to an 8" subwoofer I had and it definitely has that "nightclub" feel to the bass where it really hits you in the chest even at a distance, but it also suffers from the nightclub lack of deep bass.

Try it, just simply set your subwoofer crossover as low as it can go, then as high as it can go and see which setting hits you in the chest more.


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

OK so, Y'all have me thinking now. 
So a ported box will not do better for these speakers and I need to stick to a sealed box? 
Pioneer says you need a 1' cube for a sealed box. I have two sealed boxes now but for only two speakers a piece. One of them is about 1.2" cubed and the other one is a little bigger. The smaller box sounds ok but the bigger one sounds better. When the bigger box was in the truck the subs hit hard enough to rattle the inside of the house with it sitting in the drive. The smaller box you can hear inside but nothing like the other one.
Should I build a sealed box at the same size as the bigger one but for three speakers or should I go ported and tune to around 40-45hz?
Will a sealed box get him that feel it in your chest kinda sound?
I also went a step further before I got back on this site and read about cabin gain. From what I read and under stood the Avalanche truck would be around 35hz if I face the subs to the tailgate. 
Am I right on this or am I way off?
I had speakers and all growing up but never got into what was best for what you want. I just thought I was cool for having them so you guys will have to help me out here if you will. Thanks ahead of time....


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

One more thing too...
Does the shape of the box matter?
The smaller one I was talking about is square and the bigger one is kinda wedge. The bigger one sounds alot better.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Bigger is better when it comes to sealed boxes.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Based on the smallish .46 cubic foot Vas and .65 high Qts I'd go with the larger box to keep lower bass response. Small Vas, high Qts, and small box will lead to a relatively high F3. Better to go closer in theory to IB-like boxes, ie large 3-4 x Vas. So a 1.5 cubic foot sealed box ought to sound nice and deep and still not sound sloppy.

When it comes to shape, sealed boxes aren't as affected by their shape as much as volume. So don't worry about shape too much.


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

You will be missing a lot of content by tuning in the 40s (as well as risk damage without an appropriate sub-sonic filter), and the same goes for a small or medium sized sealed enclosure. If he listens to any "modern" rap, there will be a lot of content in the 30hz range. 

There's a difference in people who talk about a sub that "punches you in the chest" and a sub you can "feel in your chest". There's also a difference in people who subjectively describe the "feel" of a sub". I'll put it plain and simple: people who listen to rap don't care about impact and midbass. With that said, tune to about 30hz, in as big of a box as you can fit (realistically), with 10-15 in^2 of port area per ft^3, and enjoy.

This is just my opinion, and I encourage you to seek out many more.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

You're really not missing out on a lot of content by tuning to the 40's. You have to remember that frequencies below port tuning don't entirely disappear.

And when I say some rap goes down to 30 hz that's really rare for it to go down that low. Tuning in the 40's is very common. In fact most prefab boxes are tuned to the 40's and it's actually the sound a lot of people are going after.

I show a lot of non-audio my people my two 8" subs in different boxes. One tuned to 32 hz, the other to 48 hz. When average people listen to pop and hip hop they always pick the higher tuned box because the bass is noticeably louder and punchier. Peaky even. In fact in even a large sized living room it sounds almost as loud as a night club even with just 200 watts. People are astonished at how loud one little 8 can get. They generally don't even care that it's lacking in the < 30 hz region because few songs really utilize that except dedicated bass CD's and very few people listen to those except to show how low their systems can go. And even with a 48 hz tuned box, in a car it still plays relatively flat down to about 25 hz because of cabin gain. The only thing that impresses those people about my 32 hz box is that when I play really low notes like 32 hz at fb everything in the room rattles and you barely hear the subwoofer.

Think about how sealed boxes have an F3 usually in the 50-60 hz range, sure they have a shallower 6 db roll off. But considering the pretty large low frequency gain from a large cabin like the avalanche, you really won't miss all that much by tuning a little higher to the 40's. But what you will get is a very high efficiency bump in frequencies that the young'uns find " bangin' " Hence why prefabs are generally tuned to high 40's. It's the sound the masses of people like.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

qwertydude said:


> You're really not missing out on a lot of content by tuning to the 40's. You have to remember that frequencies below port tuning don't entirely disappear.
> 
> And when I say some rap goes down to 30 hz that's really rare for it to go down that low. Tuning in the 40's is very common. In fact most prefab boxes are tuned to the 40's and it's actually the sound a lot of people are going after.
> 
> ...


^X2^

That 808 bump make you put your hands up!


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

*OK, so lets vote on this then. Y'all tell me with the speakers he has, ported/vented or sealed?*I have used three different programs to design ported boxes and I have designed a 32hz box, a 35hz box, and a 40hz box. I also have the double sealed box at home that sounded pretty good that I could use as a pettern to build a triple sealed box probably around 1.5' cubed.
*What do I need to do?*
Some of y'all are talking ported and some talking sealed. 
SpecificationsClose all 
Open all .Features
Maximum output power 3.500 Watt .
Nominal output power 1.000 Watt .
Impedance Dual 4Ω .
Frequency response 20 - 150 Hz .
Lowest resonance frequency (Hz) 31 Hz .
Sensitivity 90 dB .
Woofer size (cm) 30,0 cm .
Woofer material Interlaced Basalt / Carbon Fibre Reinforced IMPP™ .
Dual 4Ω voice coils: 2 or 8Ω Yes .
Voice Coil bobbin type Phenol resin coated glass cloth bobbin .
Pole Yoke Type Extended and Vented pole yoke .
Magnets Double-stacked, high power .
Terminals Push-type .
Recommended sealed enclosure (Litres) 14,2 - 28,3 litres .
Surround 3-Layer Fiber Woven Radial Surround .
.Thiele/Small Parameters
Nom. Dia.(In) 12 .
Qts 0,65 .
Qms 15,13 .
Qes 0,68 .
Fs [Hz] 31,4 .
Vas [l] 13,03 .
Vas [ft3] 0,460 .
Vd [l] 0,564 .
Vd [ft3] 0,01992 .
Sd [m2] 0,04372 .
Sd [ft2] 0,471 .
Revc [Ω] DUAL3.3 .
Levc [mH] (2000Hz) 5.55 (8Ω)
1.39 (2Ω) .
Xmax [mm] 12,9 .
Xmax [in] 0,51 .
Zmax [Ω] 157.77 (8Ω)
38.53 (2Ω) .
BI [Tm] 28.38 (8Ω)
14.19(2Ω) .
Rms[Ns/m] 5,334 .
Mms [g] 408,83 .
Cms [m/N] 0,0000629 .
Mg.Wt.[g] 3230 .
Flux Density [Gauss] 5900 .
Hag [mm] 24 .
Hag [In] 0,94 .
Hvc [mm] 49,8 .
Hvc [In] 1,96 .
VC.Diameter [mm] 65 .
Eff [%] 0,06 .
S.P.L. [dB] 90,0 .
R.M.S.Power [W] 1000 .
M.M.P. [W] 3500 .
Sp. Displacement [l] 5,12 .
Sp. Displacement [ft3] 0,181 .
Recom. Enclosure [l] 22,64 .
Recom. Enclosure [ft3] 0,80 .
F0 (in Cabinet) 39,4 .
Q0 (in Cabinet) 0,816


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

Sorry, one more question, If y'all do say port should it be 32hz, 35hz, 40hz, or 45hz? This is so I can go back and figure port/vent length. I will probably build the vent instead of buying PVC or the tube. Also if y'all say vent should it be really big or somewhere in the middle? The figures I done was a vent 2"x5" at what ever length it produced. When I was talking about feeling the bass in his chest, he and I was in a buddy of mine's truck and he had 4 12" Memphis in a single cab truck and you could feel the bass rattleing in your chest. I know he probably will never get as much from his pioneers but he wants as much as he can get. The memphis was put in my buddy's truck kinda like a sponsor thing where he goes to small time competitions with it. I figured I needed to alabourate on the feeling since someone here post about the differences of the feeling and getting punched.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Post pictures of the response graphs of the 3 different designs.


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Pioneer TS-W3002 2502 instruction manual.pdf
I can't get it to pull up, I'm at work right now, but this is the manual sheets.


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

OK everybody left me here. Anybody else know about this?


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Slot port, common chambered enclosure for ease, tune ~35 hertz +/-5 hertz. If you choose higher due to port size constraints, then just pay attention to highpass settings. You can also choke off some of the port to lower tuning at the risk of port noise and compression.

Use a single mono amp for ease. If using multiple amps, then do 3 seperate chambers.

3-4 cubic foot internal volume. Model it to see where you need to watch for potential over excursion.

Subsonic filter if a good steep one around 20-25 hertz should keep everything fine. If the model shows you need it higher, pay attention.

What kind of power are you going to have on tap?

EDIT: can't model at work. new excel doesn't play with my copy of unibox and WinISD will not work either... GRRRRRR


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

I think it's about 400 rms per channel on a 2 channel amp. That's why I was gonna go ported but one guy here told me my speakers worked better for a sealed box. So with my speakers you think I could still port?


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## SACRAMANIAC916 (Apr 9, 2011)

Fricasseekid said:


> If he likes rap and modern pop music he probably doesn't care much about SQ. I'd tune in the low-mid 40s and implement a sub sonic filter in the mid 30s (a WinISD model would help). The higher you tune it the louder it will be. But if you tune too high the box will start to be very boomy and won't sound good at all.


So you are saying that rap and pop music have no SQ at all?


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Turn on the radio. When was the last time you heard a decent bass guitar rythm. "Whiny rock" style pop music pretty much got rid of the bass guitar in the band. Metal bass guitar solos consist of E E E E E E E. The last decent bass guitar rhythm I heard was in a Katy Perry song.

Read up about the loudness wars so dynamic range is out of the running. Auto-tune gets rid of vocal subtlety. Cheap MP3 players make the sound of bass compressing the audio an actual desired feature in dance music.

I do find it funny that like 3/4 of the billboard top 20 are ballads. But even those don't really display any tell tale signs of SQ. Limited vocal ranges on the performers, strumming like 5 chords tops, and if you're lucky a synth piano melody. My clock radio could play those songs with as much fidelity as listening to them live.

So yeah pretty much you're not listening to actual SQ.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Umm the number two single out right now is off of Daft Punks new album which is an SQ gold mine. I don't usually advocate on behalf of pop music, but every once in a while some real music gets in the mix.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

I will admit the new Daft Punk album is very good SQ-wise. It's also the antithesis of what comprises modern music, guitar riffs from the disco heydey, vocoder solos from the straight from 80's.

The sound is one that Jamiroquai has been perfecting for a lot longer than Daft Punk and the critics try to hail Daft Punk as being ground breaking by harking back to disco. But listening to the album I will say aside from the over-accentuated kick drums which are hard for many systems to reproduce accurately, the bass rhythm is not that technically challenging to reproduce. In short give a listen to some of the Jamiroquai bass guitar covers on youtube and you'll quickly see why Jamiroquai songs are pretty much a standard for bass guitar players to show off with.

So the songs from Daft Punk may make people go "ooh this sounds nice" but play this Cosmic Girl cover in a well tuned SQ system at high volume and it'll make your hairs stand on end. There's just no substitute for real instruments. Daft Punk as close as they tried to emulate disco should have taken more cues from funk and had a stronger bass line. It's especially hard to reproduce smoothly because bass guitar transitions from sub-bass, midbass, and even midrange so quickly. It certainly can reveal poor crossing over points on a lot of systems and you'll often find the soundstage wandering depending on which bass guitar registers are playing. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVRJ02HermY

Or give a listen to this other danceable hit from them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15fCMRh2QA

But if you had the album versions you'd really hear the SQ in the songs. Youtube really kills the sound quality in the recordings.

There's just not too much bass note variety in the album and it's distinctly quiet on frequencies known to sound muddy, which I think it was intentionally done to give the impression of great SQ on systems that otherwise sound poor.


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## Stanley_Wilson (May 28, 2013)

Ok some about my box, y'all both say to port huh?


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

You said you came up with several models. You never posted the frequency plots. I'd like to see them.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Stanley_Wilson said:


> I think it's about 400 rms per channel on a 2 channel amp. That's why I was gonna go ported but one guy here told me my speakers worked better for a sealed box. So with my speakers you think I could still port?


Yes. In fact the manual you posted the link for shows a ported config.
Ported will even keep excursion down in the lower frequencies your son is looking for increasing measurable SQ. Moreso than a similar sealed config.


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