# Stevens Audio MB8 & Illusion Audio C8



## M2Guy (Nov 17, 2018)

Hello,

I am seeking feedback on these speakers, Stevens Audio MB8 2ohm and Illusion Audio C8. Seems both will fit my front door where they will be used as a woofer/midbase driver in an active three way front stage. I plan to power them with at least 100watt rms and will have a rear sub for the lower freqs.

I have not been able to audition these at any dealers in the Houston area. I noticed some of you are SQ competing with the Illusion Audio drivers but have not been able to identify anyone competing with the MB8. Although I am not looking to compete, I am looking to fit a nice deep punchy articulate driver.

Does anyone in the group have direct experience with these two drivers and can offer some observations to the sonic character or differences in sonic character?

Finally, I am new to the group and have been immersed in the archives for the past couple of weeks and wanted to say thanks to all that have contributed as there is a wealth of effective material here. Kudos!

Regards - M2Guy


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## dhmcfadin (Sep 28, 2017)

You need to also look at the Audio Development w800 neo. It will more than likely out perform both those drivers you listed.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I haven't heard the Stevens MB8, but have heard both the Illusion and the Audio Development driver that was suggested. Both of those are outstanding drivers. I think each can be made to sound great in a door and both are capable of being crossed pretty low, if you are looking for that sort of thing. The Stevens driver gives up the ability to be crossed low for efficiency. Those things can get loud, but will want a higher crossover (Eric recommends 70Hz in a door).

I've modeled the three drivers on 100W in a typical car door with the lowest crossover possible, while keeping the drivers within Xmax. 

Transfer function plot shows the C8 playing the lowest, with the preferred Qtc for better midbass punch of the three drivers. 









The SPL plot shows the C8 is definitely the "quietest" of the bunch, even though it plays the lowest. However, at 107dB for a single 8" midbass on 100W it is certainly no slouch. 









All in all, I would probably take the C8 for a door mounted midbass. Especially if I wanted to cross fairly low. In a smaller volume sealed enclosure, I would probably go to the W800Neo. Nick Adams did just that in his sealed kicks and felt like it was an improvement. If I wanted to get loud, was willing to cross higher and had room for them, the MB8 would be a good choice. Especially when you take price into consideration.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

@rton20s
Yours is the kind of response that makes this site great!


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

I agree with the above, though if you want to go LOW with an 8" - the AD SW800 will out play the other 3 (its more of a sub lol - and a BEAST).

The Stevens 8 crossed at 60-70 absolutely cannot be beat for the PRICE. I dont think anything touches it at 60-70hz for the money. 

If you want to run your 8's lower, thats where the w800, w800NEO, and illusion 8 all start to really overtake the Stevens. IF you dont mind 70hz+ its a no brainer.

If you are like me and want to play down to 40-50......price goes way up. 

And to clarify, the SW800 and SW800NEO are two completely different speakers from Audio Development. The SW800 is a dual 3ohm speaker that is 2x as deep at the NEO version. Neo is rated to 40hz and the SW800 to 30hz.

I own the Stevens 8's, and the NEO's and am waiting on the SW800s to arrive.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

mumbles said:


> @rton20s
> Yours is the kind of response that makes this site great!


Thanks. Glad to help. 



Brules said:


> I agree with the above, though if you want to go LOW with an 8" - the AD SW800 will out play the other 3 (its more of a sub lol - and a BEAST).
> 
> The Stevens 8 crossed at 60-70 absolutely cannot be beat for the PRICE. I dont think anything touches it at 60-70hz for the money.
> 
> ...


I haven't had a chance to demo the SW800, but it and the W800 Neo are certainly two completely different drivers. The SW800 is definitely designed to be more of a subwoofer, than a midbass. A better comparison to the W800 Neo would be the standard W800. Their specs are much more in line. But, you're still having to deal with a 96mm mounting depth and larger motor vs 56mm on the Neo version.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Using WinISD to compare response is not going to correlate to real world output installed in a vehicle it is simply based upon small signal T/S parameters in a 1/2 space environment. The transfer function of the car interior is going to alter the response significantly boosting the response below 200 Hz with the boost become stronger as the frequency gets lower. Further the simulation graph you show doesn't take into account sensitivity which is definitely a significant factor. The C8 is 87, W800 90??, and MB8 95 at 1W/1M if you were to overlay 1W/1M curves it would paint a far different picture especially if you don't low pass them at 400 or 500 Hz.

I have done extensive modeling, in car measurement, and listening with midbass systems door and kick panel mounted. I can tell you based upon my experience a very low Q system for the midbass will always sound significantly better and require far less equalization / correction in the 100 to 300 range. 

I still think with a 70hz LR4 crossover to subwoofer it is easy to achieve upfront bass and will yield better tonality, dynamics, and lower distortion than trying to crossover to a midbass driver at 50 Hz. 

The C8 and W800 Neo are both more install friendly with much reduced depth and with the higher Q and lower sensitivity drivers be better for a ultra low subwoofer crossover point or subless type system, but as a pure mid-bass or woofer the MB8 is going to shine.

Based upon my experiences the tonality difference would be one of improved dynamics and detail with more snap/impact while still maintaining a warm tone. I haven't listened to a C8 in some time though.





rton20s said:


> I haven't heard the Stevens MB8, but have heard both the Illusion and the Audio Development driver that was suggested. Both of those are outstanding drivers. I think each can be made to sound great in a door and both are capable of being crossed pretty low, if you are looking for that sort of thing. The Stevens driver gives up the ability to be crossed low for efficiency. Those things can get loud, but will want a higher crossover (Eric recommends 70Hz in a door).
> 
> I've modeled the three drivers on 100W in a typical car door with the lowest crossover possible, while keeping the drivers within Xmax.
> 
> ...


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I have both the C8 and the MB8. The C8 performs well playing from 70-1600Hz. They are getting 75 watts from a VXi amp, but seem like they want a little more power.

I haven't listened to the MB8 yet because they were too deep for my tiny doors. (Eric, how bout them NEO motors?) I'll use them in my Bronco when I start working on that project again.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for the response Eric! I'm always interested in learning more. Especially from the people responsible for the design of the products we use.

I'm not sure why, but photobucket seems to not be displaying yet another image. (I really need to quit using that site for photo hosting.) I did include an image of the SPL plot that showed the disparity in output due to sensitivity.

I've directly attached below the SPL plot for 1W/1M using the same HPFs as listed above and no LPF.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Thanks for the response Eric! I'm always interested in learning more. Especially from the people responsible for the design of the products we use.
> 
> I'm not sure why, but photobucket seems to not be displaying yet another image. (I really need to quit using that site for photo hosting.) I did include an image of the SPL plot that showed the disparity in output due to sensitivity.
> 
> I've directly attached below the SPL plot for 1W/1M using the same HPFs as listed above and no LPF.



Glad to reply and help.

To understand where I am coming from imagine the MB8 response with the increased LF output resulting from the transfer function of the cars interior. Its going to have more output everywhere in the midbass region and above. The actual real world FR of the MB8 is better than the predicted response produced by WinISD as an added benefit, the knee in the response is much lower.

Another thought to ponder is how a lower input power for the same SPL level results in lower distortion.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Brules said:


> If you are like me and want to play down to 40-50......price goes way up.


You need a better subwoofer  so you dont want to cross it over at 40 - 50 Hz which is better produced by a much larger driver with a lot more volume of displacement.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Eric Stevens said:


> Glad to reply and help.
> 
> To understand where I am coming from imagine the MB8 response with the increased LF output resulting from the transfer function of the cars interior. Its going to have more output everywhere in the midbass region and above. The actual real world FR of the MB8 is better than the predicted response produced by WinISD as an added benefit, the knee in the response is much lower.
> 
> Another thought to ponder is how a lower input power for the same SPL level results in lower distortion.


Thanks again, Eric. I understand what you are saying about the transfer function of the vehicle. I know it is quite far from accurate, but I know one of the suggestions I have seen (and have used) is to apply a Linkwitz Transform in WinISD to get a better estimate of what a driver will do inside of a vehicle. Depending on the figures supplied for the Linkwitz Transform and the specific application, I have seen the results vary from "kind of in the ball park" to "not even close. 

I do find it interesting the different approach various companies take. The variance in Fs and Qts of "midbass" drivers in automotive applications is pretty astounding.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Thanks again, Eric. I understand what you are saying about the transfer function of the vehicle. I know it is quite far from accurate, but I know one of the suggestions I have seen (and have used) is to apply a Linkwitz Transform in WinISD to get a better estimate of what a driver will do inside of a vehicle. Depending on the figures supplied for the Linkwitz Transform and the specific application, I have seen the results vary from "kind of in the ball park" to "not even close.
> 
> I do find it interesting the different approach various companies take. The variance in Fs and Qts of "midbass" drivers in automotive applications is pretty astounding.



Thanks for throwing those graphs up, interesting stuff for sure! Any chance you'd throw the ZR800's in there for ****s and giggles? (Sorry to go off topic).


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

SQram said:


> Thanks for throwing those graphs up, interesting stuff for sure! Any chance you'd throw the ZR800's in there for ****s and giggles? (Sorry to go off topic).


Commence the ****ting and giggling...


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Eric Stevens said:


> Based upon my experiences the tonality difference would be one of improved dynamics and detail with more snap/impact while still maintaining a warm tone.


Yup, that is exactly the strengths of my MB6s as well. Live type sound


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## M2Guy (Nov 17, 2018)

Looks like I will need to reach 5 post before I can link photos, darn.


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## M2Guy (Nov 17, 2018)

I've got some photos and carboard templetes I've made of various speakers to measure what will fit in the factory location.


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## M2Guy (Nov 17, 2018)

Looks like two more post counts before I can articulate something necessary to the discussion. Wife says I have to take her out to dinner now. Will follow up later.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

Did I miss where you stated your vehicle?


M2Guy said:


> I've got some photos and carboard templetes I've made of various speakers to measure what will fit in the factory location.


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## M2Guy (Nov 17, 2018)

Vehicle is 2013 Infiniti G37 Sedan. Seems a 10 in woofer is installed in the door from the factory. Many local shops in Houston are recommending a 6.5 inch driver. My experience tells me I will be disappointed in the lower end performance with a 6.5 and feel an 8 inch driver is the minimum that will move the air necessary in a sedan.

The responses have been very information, thanks for the feedback. Although I enjoy the symphony twice a year, what I want is rock show in my car and based on the feedback so far it seems the Stevens driver might fit that goal.

This is the original opening.
https://milehigh.smugmug.com/Forum/n-HBqS8S/i-sKXRnnW/A

My measurements tell me I can fit right up to 3.5 inches in depth maximum.....and this seems to be the mounting depth of the Stevens MB8 drivers. All other drivers will be easy to fit, Illusion Audio and Audio Development Neo. You can see there is a section near the flange around the perimeter and the back plate that will prevent normal drivers. 


So, how to fix that problem? Jigsaw!
https://milehigh.smugmug.com/Forum/n-HBqS8S/i-Q57BrRq/A

Results in this. 
https://milehigh.smugmug.com/Forum/n-HBqS8S/i-Gjr2Ppt/A

I've made 2D carboard driver templates and it seems the MB8 will fit, clear the window track and the inside of the door card......barely.


Last problem is the door card grill coves up 35-40% of the original 10 inch driver area. Once I fit an 8 inch driver there should be less blockage. I dont know how adverse this is given the lower freqs this driver performs at. Certainly must have some negative impact. 

https://milehigh.smugmug.com/Forum/n-HBqS8S/i-Qpp76gQ/A


For curiosity sake, where do you find pricing on the W800 Neo, their web site seems broken??

Now that I think the Stevens MB8 clears with my 2D carboard templates, I think I am going to make some foam 3D models of the driver to evaluate it in all dimensions.... just to make sure. It would be a pain in the wallet to make a purchase that does not fit.


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

M2Guy said:


> For curiosity sake, where do you find pricing on the W800 Neo, their web site seems broken??


reach out to Emilios Mandalios, his company is the distributer in the states. https://www.audioexcellent.com

he'll help you find a retailer in your area. if you do the fb thing, he's pretty responsive.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

M2Guy said:


> Vehicle is 2013 Infiniti G37 Sedan. Seems a 10 in woofer is installed in the door from the factory. Many local shops in Houston are recommending a 6.5 inch driver. My experience tells me I will be disappointed in the lower end performance with a 6.5 and feel an 8 inch driver is the minimum that will move the air necessary in a sedan.
> ...


What an awesome factory opening in the door! I would agree with your notion of 8" over 6.5".


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## VW_Golf_3 (May 5, 2019)

Sorry for capturing your thread but i have an important question 


My Name is Stefan and im from Germany (especially Bavaria  )


Im drivin an VW golf MK3 and im searchin for an uprade for my carhifi-system. Cheap car, i know. But first it is a good substance and second its almost invisible on german roads. No theft or anything ...


Actually im driving following components:

Tweeter - Audison Thesis Violino II @ 2 channels of a Helix C four
Mids - Exact A10M @ the other two channels of the C 4 
Woofer - 2x Hertz Mille Pro 1650 (3 Ohms each) per door; each woofer at a channel of the second Helix C 4 
Subwoofer - Hertz Mille Legend MP300 in 4th order BP (30L CC/60L VC) @ Helix C One (not available yet; i have it for beta testing  )

That is all controlled by a Helix DSP.3 with Wifi (not available yet, see above).

My actual problem is the lack of volume level in the woofer compartment. tweeter, mids and Sub have a slighly pair of reserve. The Woofers are an their mechanical limit (=mechanical clipping).

So me and my friend (CarHifi-Shop-Owner) looked around and we found a solution, maybe 

Im willing to upgrade to twice MB8 per door. Not so funny to build but i believe in the displacement volume 

By the way: With my actual setup im listening to music all day by about 130dB. No Joke 

I would send you a PM with pics if you ask. 5-post-limit 

My Question now:
Is it worth it? I only want more Kick.

PS: Sorry for the reading of this. My english is a little bit rusted all the time i didnt need it.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

4 mb8 would be awesome


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## VW_Golf_3 (May 5, 2019)

4x 8" are always awesome !!! 
4x 6.5" are also awesome but not enough :surprised:


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The C8 is a very different animal to the MB8. If you are looking for high output with excellent SQ the MB8 has a very significant advantage.

--1 watt sensitivity MB8 95dB and C8 87dB so 8dB louder at just 1 watt.

-- Power handling is almost double for the MB8 so it will add almost another 3dB overin output over the C8.

--C8 has a small advantage in Xmax but in a high output system that wont help, It will only help in situations where you arent using a subwoofer.

--I cant compare frequency response as they dont publish that, the MB8 is very flat and well behaved on or off axis and useable even off axis to around 2500 Hz.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Eric Stevens said:


> The C8 is a very different animal to the MB8. If you are looking for high output with excellent SQ the MB8 has a very significant advantage.
> 
> --1 watt sensitivity MB8 95dB and C8 87dB so 8dB louder at just 1 watt.
> 
> ...


Ive been thinking of grabbing a setof the mb8. I have low power though. 80x2 at 4ohm. Which should be ok. Its a regular cab truck and a 3 way front stage. I just need stronger midbass than what i have


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## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

I’ve tuned and or listened to a handful of the MB8 drivers and illusions. The MB8 falls off at 150, but above that it’s an amazing driver. Very sensitive and very detailed. If you’re like me and cross 60-80 you’ll want the illusion. If you’re open to more options the scan discovery or the peerless sls are great drivers too. It all boils down to what you’re after. 

Not bashing the MB8, it is a very nice driver, just trying to be transparent 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

The sls is gold from 40-250. No more. No less.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Jscoyne2 said:


> The sls is gold from 40-250. No more. No less.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk




You’re right. It doesn’t want to play high


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

aholland1198 said:


> I’ve tuned and or listened to a handful of the MB8 drivers and illusions. The MB8 falls off at 150, but above that it’s an amazing driver. Very sensitive and very detailed. If you’re like me and cross 60-80 you’ll want the illusion. If you’re open to more options the scan discovery or the peerless sls are great drivers too. It all boils down to what you’re after.
> 
> Not bashing the MB8, it is a very nice driver, just trying to be transparent
> 
> ...


This makes no sense to me MB6 dont even fall off at all. Here is a 75HZ cross


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

aholland1198 said:


> I’ve tuned and or listened to a handful of the MB8 drivers and illusions. The MB8 falls off at 150, but above that it’s an amazing driver. Very sensitive and very detailed. If you’re like me and cross 60-80 you’ll want the illusion. If you’re open to more options the scan discovery or the peerless sls are great drivers too. It all boils down to what you’re after.
> 
> Not bashing the MB8, it is a very nice driver, just trying to be transparent
> 
> ...


In a car interior door the MB8 will not roll off at 150 mounted in a door. It it did or does something is wrong. Contact me for some technical assistance.


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## VW_Golf_3 (May 5, 2019)

In my Setup the MB8 would be crossed between 65-180Hz, 12/oct each.
So it would be better than my 2 Hertz actually.

The displacement and the linearity get my interest.

Is there a PDF etc where i can find the specs?


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

aholland1198 said:


> I’ve tuned and or listened to a handful of the MB8 drivers and illusions. The MB8 falls off at 150, but above that it’s an amazing driver. Very sensitive and very detailed. If you’re like me and cross 60-80 you’ll want the illusion. If you’re open to more options the scan discovery or the peerless sls are great drivers too. It all boils down to what you’re after.
> 
> Not bashing the MB8, it is a very nice driver, just trying to be transparent
> 
> ...


I have my mb8's crossed at 80hz not sure where you are seeing it fall off at 150? Please tell me the installation of these.


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## EvAnA (Aug 20, 2012)

VW_Golf_3 said:


> In my Setup the MB8 would be crossed between 65-180Hz, 12/oct each.
> So it would be better than my 2 Hertz actually.
> 
> The displacement and the linearity get my interest.
> ...


These are from the facebook page
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTZyeeNA983yZmB56


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## VW_Golf_3 (May 5, 2019)

Thanks EvAnA 
But i cant open it. Between Proxxy and Region Code are a full bunch of posssible issues  But ist all Right 

My actuall setup (double Hertz 6.25" per door) is crossed by 53-135HZ 12dB/oct.

All filters above 12 dB and more per octave turns your Phase in a way you cant hardly controll it.


Now heres my way:

Test one pair if the MB8; hope to will be funny.
Then test it with two MB8 per door each and hope to never end smiling again


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## VW_Golf_3 (May 5, 2019)

@ Eric
Thanks for your help. but i cant send you PM with a link or mail within the 5-post-limit.


so it will only be a matter of time


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## VW_Golf_3 (May 5, 2019)

So i im getting to improve overal.

After a little driving i get a second dashboard for 55€.

Time to work on the Scanspeak 12MU for Midbass


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