# The long and involved process of upgrading my 2016 Macan S stereo system



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Howdy all,

I have a new vehicle and I'm back to my old addiction. I feel the need to gut this sucker and refine the stock audio system. Meet my latest project:





































It looks like there is ample room to place subs and amp(s) in the rear hatch:










The hatch floor is recessed almost 2" below skid plates. This could come in handy for building a false floor:










A reasonable amount of space under the hatch:










Even more space with the 8" plastic factory sub removed:










Unfortunately I don't believe this sucker is going to fit.










Just too deep if I want to recess it. Also, the diameter is too big for a good fit.










I'm thinking two 10" drivers or three 8" drivers would work well. More on that in a bit.

Props go out to *phroenips* for giving me some ideas and inspiration to work on this vehicle.

Ge0


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## boomeh (Apr 8, 2020)

You may want to save the money you’re going to spend on that system for the inevitable repairs to that Porsche that are coming.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Its still cold, raining and/or snowing here in Southeast Michigan. So, I have not been outside a lot to mess with my car. However, I have done some planning.

Thinking about sub-woofer options. Look's like I can fit two 10" drivers or three 8" drivers. I'm siding more towards a set of 10's. My idea is to create a false floor and mount the drivers to it. The picture here is a single 8" driver sitting on the sub-floor of the cargo area:










Now onto other things. The front doors have stock 8" mid-bass drivers mounted to the door sheet metal and 3" mid-ranges mounted to the plastic door card. I'm thinking about keeping this configuration but swapping for improved drivers.










The front dash has a set of tweeters to the far left and right sides plus a center channel. Once again, I plan on keeping this configuration but replacing with upgraded drivers. Yes, I plan on running a center channel and hope that Helix has a decent center channel algorithm.


















The rear doors are currently configured for 6.5" mid-bass drivers and 1" domed tweeters. However, there is unused space to mount a 3" mid-range as well. I plan to eliminate the rear tweeters. I will start by trying out the 6.5" drivers as L-R rear fill. I'm not sure this is the best option. I may disconnect the 6.5" drivers and add 3" mid-ranges to take over rear fill duty. Those of you who know me know that I feel real strong about using this rear fill configuration to help widen the listening space and increase the over-all room depth.


















I also have another possibility for adding rear fill that I may experiment with. There is also room for mid-ranges in the D pillars behind the rear seats. Hmmm... Maybe place rear fill drivers there instead?









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. I figured I need to start somewhere. May as well pick the easier tasks first while the weather is still cold and nasty. Time to do the tweeter install. While not a terribly complicated job it did have its tricks. Doing things in the wrong order can damage the vehicle. So, I decided to document the process step by step.

Remove fuse box cover on both sides of the dash. These are easy enough to remove by hand. Just pace your finger in the access tab near the red arrows and pull outwards. If you don't want to chip your nail polish then you can use a plastic trim tool







.










Next, let's tackle the A-pillars. This is perhaps the most difficult step. I've read about folks cracking their windshield trying to get these out. First, remove the access plugs labeled AIRBAG in the upper A-pillar. I found this easiest to do using my finger nails. My plastic trim tools were a little too wide to wedge in there. I didn't want to use a metal trim tool since I didn't want to scratch the plastic finish. Once removed you need to extract the torx head bolts. This is tricky. Loosen the bolt so it is almost out. Then reach in with needle nose pliers to pull it out. Be careful or you might drop the bolt inside the a-pillar.










The next step is important. Pop the upper portion of the A-pillar trim loose by pulling it away from the A-pillar towards the center of the vehicle here (white arrow). Don't try to pull it free. Just pop it loose.










Next, pop the bottom portion of the A-pillar trim loose here (red arrow) then gently push up (green arrow).










You should now be able to remove the a-pillar trim by carefully pushing up the bottom and pulling the top free from the vehicle. Careful, it's rather flimsy in the center where the two pieces are bonded together (red arrow).










Finally we can remove the speaker grill. Some say wedge a plastic trim tool between the speaker grill and dash here:










However, I found it hard to wedge my trim tool in there without risking scratching the dash board. I found it easier to grab the rubber piece here (red arrow) and pull up on it (green arrow). This lifts a corner of the speaker grill so you can get your trim tool in there:

















Remove the grill and set it aside. Take note how the rubber part of the trim seats into the dash channel prior to popping the grill back in.

Next, popping the tweeter out is kind of difficult. Push the metal tabs outward away from the tweeter here (red arrows). You can then get a trim tool under the tweeter to pop it up and out. There are no hidden latches in the tweeter connector. Just grab by the connector body and give it a firm tug. Just like your mom always said, don't pull it loose by the cord!!!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I didn't feel like cutting the wire harness on a $65K car. There was not enough length to crimp on quick disconnects in the tight space between dash and windshield. Therefore, I decided to sacrifice the cheap factory tweeters to make my own OEM connector.

This job was somewhat easy. The connector body was glued on to the back of the tweeter. Just de-solder the connections to the tweeter then pry the connector loose with a Xacto knife and flat head screw driver. Next, trim off the excess plastic with a pair of wire cutters then solder on some pig-tails.













































Ironically, the body diameter of the new tweeters was very close in size to the factory supplied ones. The factory installed metal clips hold the tweeter in nice and snug. Installing the tweeters could not be easier.

















The factory trim was snapped back into place without interference

















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

The Scanspeak tweets offer a lot more detail than the cheap plastic Bose units. I can now actually hear parts of music the Bose tweeters could not replicate. However, something still seemed off. I could still hear shrillness in some songs that should not be there. Hmmm... What's going on?

Then it occurred to me. There is another set of Bose tweeters in the rear doors. Let's take a peek.

You can remove the rear door mid-range and tweeter grill by hand. Just grab by the red arrows and gently pull towards you.


















I found this interesting. I popped off the grill on the passenger side and noticed this tweeter was damaged from the factory:










It's easier to remove these tweeters. Just put your finger through the empty midrange hole (red arrow) and push on the tweeter from behind. Next, release the plastic clips (red arrows) with your trim tool and the tweeters will pop out. 










I tried listening to the system with and without decent tweeters mounted in the rear doors.










Having high frequency content near your ears right behind you was screwing up frontal imaging. So, for now I am going to remove tweeters from the rear doors altogether. The signal going to them is full range. I can probably use that for something else in the future.

The door also has 6-1/2" mid-basses mounted below. I may end up using the 6-1/2's for L-R rear fill in the future. Either that or I will install 3" mid-ranges in the factory supplied locations. Either way, the rear fill will be band limited from 250Hz to 2.5KHz. But, that's a project for another day. I don't have the amps I need to complete this configuration yet.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

boomeh said:


> You may want to save the money you’re going to spend on that system for the inevitable repairs to that Porsche that are coming.


I've done the math. It will still be cheaper to maintain than my old Grand Cherokee. That thing was constantly breaking down. I have a good Indy garage taking car of it. Should help keep the cost down.

Ge0


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Maybe you can just run some decent coaxials in the rear doors.


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Nicely done...subscribed for more!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Maybe you can just run some decent coaxials in the rear doors.


Coaxial's would be a waste for the type of rear fill I plan to run. I low pass the driver at 2.5KHz with a 12dB/octave slope. The tweeter would pretty much sit unused.

Ge0


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Ge0 said:


> I've done the math. It will still be cheaper to maintain than my old Grand Cherokee. That thing was constantly breaking down. I have a good Indy garage taking car of it. Should help keep the cost down.
> 
> Ge0


Not to mention, Porsche is usually in the top 3 for quality, next to Lexus. So, where regular scheduled maintenance is expensive, repairs shouldn't be needed for a very long time.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. time to check out the center channel situation. Mainly because it is easy to do









Start by pressing the lap clock towards the windshield (red arrow). This will lift the trim piece up enough for you to get your plastic trim removal tool under it (green arrow). But, just break it lose. Don't try to remove yet:










There are two J-hooks you will need to release before you can pull the vent panel out (red arrows). The trick to doing this is to leave the vent panel lowered so the J-hooks clear their locking point. Press away one side then lift that side slightly. Then do the other side. The vent assembly will then lift so you can do other goodies. This is the hardest part. Clear it and you are on your way.










The only thing holding you back now is to release the connector to the LAP clock. Just push in the retainer tab (red arrow) and pull the connector out. Once this is done you can set the vent assembly aside:










Now you have a clean view of the center channel speaker










You'll need to remove those torx bolts. But after that you are home free. I managed to get my Bosch cordless screw driver in there with the appropriate bit and still clear the windshield.










Again, press against the connector retention clip to release then loudspeaker. Easy peasy.

Looking inside the hole I see a somewhat sealed 1 liter enclosure formed by the A/C vents. This may be useful...










It looks like you can add a mid-range with up to a 3" cut-out into this hole. Also, depth does not seem to be any problem for such a driver.



















At my photo limit per post...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

The Porsche Macan center channel is a 2.5" driver with a 3.5" oversized flange.





























Here is what it looks like both sides

















Extracting dimensions I can think of numerous aftermarket replacement drivers. For the time being I am considering the 4 ohm version of the ScanSpeak 10M. Keep following to see how this works.

Other aftermarket solutions by HAT, FROG, BRAX, and others would also work. But at their cost to performance ratio is unacceptable to me. I enjoy this hobby. But have a realistic budget to consider.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I plan to use the same mid-range drivers for the center channel and doors. Here are a few of the early highly rated contenders that have me interested:



















































Shameless plug to a friends website since I snagged a few images from him









I'm hoping to order the ScanSpeaks by the end of the week. I'll let you know how this turns out. The Eaton's are an 8 ohm driver. While very efficient they may not draw enough power from an amplifier channel to properly level match with the rest of the system. I may need to hold off on buying these until I have a higher power aftermarket amplifier in place.



Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Time to tear into the front doors. Let's see what we can do with these:

You need to start by removing a few trim pieces to access retention bolts.























































Under these trim pieces you will find 3 Torx head screws you need to remove:




























After you clear this just lift up on the door panel. It will slide up about 1 inch and then pull away.

You will need to make 3 disconnections. The door handle wire pull and two electrical connectors. I could not take pictures of this because it required two hands. 

The door handle pull is a little tricky. You need to push two long white retaining clips outwards while pulling the white connector towards the back of the door. 

The electrical connectors are easy. The first that plugs into the Continental Door Zone Module has a pink lever. Flip it to the left towards the front of the door and it will release.

The second electrical connector you need to pinch two tabs inwards while pulling the connector left towards the front of the door. The door panel is now free and you can set it aside.











Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Midbass investigation!!!




















Midbass front depth is 1-3/4" or 1.75 for you engineers

























The cut out diameter is 8"



















Limiting rear depth is another 1-3/4" or 1.75 at the bottom before you hit the window-lift regulator. OUCH!!! Pretty shallow. My last vehicle gave me 3 inches. 













































Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is the midbass speaker. This has been typical Bose design for the last ten years. Too bad they had to cheapen it up so much. Midbass output is strong but very sloppy / muddy. They must hold a solid patent on this design. Putting $20 more dollars into this driver could make it awesome. Maybe why other aftermarket companies have not replicated it and improved it. Anyway, I can't work with this so I'm going to replace it.






































The magnet extends 1/4" or 0.25" above the speaker frame










Main speaker frame depth is 1-3/4" or 1.75" above the mounting surface baffle. Just like mounted measurements showed.










Here is the cut-out template:



























Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

My sub came in:










Not really impressed with the push terminal locations on a shallow mount sub. Hoping I won't have an interference fit one the recessing rings go in. I may need to rotate the sub but then the logo will not be aligned:










All I need is for my prefabbed recessing rings to come in so I can get started on my baffle:









I'll let you know how these rings work out. They were very fairly priced from a domestic seller on Amazon:

10" JL AUDIO TABBED FIBERGLASS SPEAKER JL 10TW3 SUBWOOFER RING SHALLOW SUB:Amazon:Car Electronics

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is my idea for recess mounting a shallow mount sub in my cargo area sub-floor:












This is a functional idea if your sub had a good enough surface to flush mount to its top face. However, sub manufactures have went the way of making their stuff look cool with pretty design features vs. being functional. Meet the JL Audio 10TW3-D4:


















They rounded the surface of the top plate to make it look cool. However, in the mean time they only left a 1/8" freaking lip to seal the sub against a baffle from the top side:









This is weak as hell and I don't trust it. So, what is one to do? Mount it like it is supposed to be mounted from the bottom side of the flange?










But, this solution is clunky and requires a mounting ring way larger than the diameter of the sub. In some cases this may work. But, in my case it prevents me from using this sub.











Even after loosening the spare tire and sliding it 2" forward there is still a tight press fit due to collisions. I can only think about how much this will rattle when put into use.










The recessed mounting option made the effective diameter of the 10TW3-D4 greater than the diameter of a 12" sub. This is a huge disappointment to me. I was geaked about using this sub but it just won't work for me.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

All other dimensions were in check even with the screwy wire terminal binding posts:


























So, let's re-think things. Another sub option for me was the Sundown Audio SD4-10 D4.














































It models just slightly better than the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 in my available space. But, the most important feature it has that made me switch was a flat front mounting bezel. No fancy plastic rounded flares. Now I can work with this.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Lets take a peek at some options:

Premise:


All drivers driven with 500W
All drivers mounted in a 2 cu/ft enclosure
All drivers are 4ohm DVC tied in parallel with the exception of the SBA driver which was 3ohm DVC tied in parallel
No high pass set on any driver. All lowpass set at 200Hz 24dB/octave
No expectations set for cost vs. perfomance
This is only a modeling program used to select the top few drivers I should evaluate. It by no means suggests sound quality of one driver over the other.

Sundown audio SD4 D4









The Sundown is the champ here by a small margin. It closely resembles the response of the JL 10TW3-D4 but a few dB higher with the given power. The Dayton sub is 1dB higher at 100Hz but that does not matter for most sub installs. It is equal to the Sundown at 70Hz and falls quickly from there. Interesting sub though. Hmm. I didn't mention the SBA sub because it fell behind in all simulations.

JL Audio 10TW3-D4









The 10TW3 is a great sub. But, it falls behind both the Sundown and Dayton by a very small 1 --> 2 dB margin. There is more to audio than raw numbers. One or two dB is hard to tell the difference. I'll need to revert to subjective data to say for sure.

Dayton Audio LS10-44










Much better performance than I expected out of a budget brand. Worthy of a closer look. By simulation in my vehicles environment it slightly beats the JL Audio 10TW3-D4


SB Acoustics shallow mount from Madisound









Not going much further with this driver. It came in last by a small margin. But, the Dayton is cheaper and clearly out performs it. Why would I select this?

In the end I already own a 10TW3-D4. I plan on ordering a Sundown SD4. Is it enough just to compare these two? Or should I grab a Dayton LS10-44 as well?

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Okey doke. I have more drawings to share.

Here is the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 crammed into place










There are more than a few clearance issues here. Now, what if I shave off 1/4" off the OD of the mounting ring?










Now I can push the sub out from hard interference's. However, the mounting rings are pretty darn thin. Hmmm... Try to make it work or not?

Just for ****s and giggles I drew up what the Dayton LS10-44 would look like. Damn, I bet I could fit two of these in my sub floor.











Options and more options...

Ge0


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Geo, do you have an overlay of the subs on the transfer function view? Since these are all fairly close in output, that can also help differentiate their response in your given enclosure size. 

I also saw a post the other day on FB where someone was able to slide the push terminals and plastic housing off of the TW3 basket. Underneath is a typical spade terminal. Apparently, that is how the TW3s are configured in JL's pre-fab enclosures. That may provide you with some of the additional clearance you are looking for. 

Lastly, I don't know of anyone who has experience with the SD4s yet, but I did have someone I trust PM me who used both the SD3 and the TW1. He said the SD3 was "just a noisy low quality sub I guess nowhere in the same caliber as the JL’s." Now, it certainly isn't apples to apples as you are looking at the SD4 (a completely new design) and TW3 (higher tier driver), but it is some food for thought.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)




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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Geo, do you have an overlay of the subs on the transfer function view? Since these are all fairly close in output, that can also help differentiate their response in your given enclosure size.
> 
> I also saw a post the other day on FB where someone was able to slide the push terminals and plastic housing off of the TW3 basket. Underneath is a typical spade terminal. Apparently, that is how the TW3s are configured in JL's pre-fab enclosures. That may provide you with some of the additional clearance you are looking for.
> 
> Lastly, I don't know of anyone who has experience with the SD4s yet, but I did have someone I trust PM me who used both the SD3 and the TW1. He said the SD3 was "just a noisy low quality sub I guess nowhere in the same caliber as the JL’s." Now, it certainly isn't apples to apples as you are looking at the SD4 (a completely new design) and TW3 (higher tier driver), but it is some food for thought.


I still have them all loaded in WinISD. I could easily grab that overlay plot and post.

I was also real skeptical about the SD-4. However, a few members here swear by it and say it is an excellent SQ sub. So, I decided to give it a try. I'll compare it with the 10TW3 and see what I like the best.






Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10???


I'm looking into a shallow mount sub-woofer configuration for my latest build. I've determined that I can probably fit a couple of shallow mount 10" drivers into my cargo area sub floor. They will most likely be powered by a Zapco DC REF 500.1 because I happen to have that laying around...



www.caraudiojunkies.com





Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

rton20s said:


>



DUDE!!! If it wasn't for this creepy COVID thing I would give you a huge hug. Now we're talking. My concern about snapping off that push terminal is gone. Thank you.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is the transfer function graph you requested:








SDA SD4 is Red, JL 10TW3 is Green, Dayton LS10 is Blue, SB Acoustics is Purple

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Going to switch gears here for a moment and look at something else. How about midranges?


Here it is



















Overall mounting depth including connector protrusion:










Now extract the driver by removing two torx bolts:










The third mounting point may be an isssue:










The driver:


















Some important measurements we will need:





























More in about 5 minutes. I have to pee...

Geo


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now let's make a template of the driver so we can fudge something else in when we need to:











Now get out you #2 pencil:









Do our measurements match? Yessum...










Looks like this bad boy will fit here too:






























Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

What to do on a rainy day. Can't pull the tools out of the garage and start cutting wood. Besides, it's been a while since I used my router. There's some gunk all over it. It needs to be cleaned:










I could watch Hillbilly Hand Fishing:










I was thinking about something when I did this:










I could build Frankensub!!!



















Borrrowing the stock Bose amp off the OEM sub enclosure (my Zapco amp is down for repair).



























I'll hook it up and take some measurements tomorrow. My plan is to have an equal playing ground when comparing the JL Audio 10TW3 to the Sundown Audio SD4.

Ge0


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Ge0- could you help me better understand what you mean by 'equal playing ground'?


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## Mad Scientist (Feb 12, 2017)

Apologies for being off topic here, but I have to ask the question: What's with the 15 chairs in the garage?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mad Scientist said:


> Apologies for being off topic here, but I have to ask the question: What's with the 15 chairs in the garage?


I have a lot of people who like to sit down. Big patio. That and beer parties after a long a grueling MTB ride.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> Ge0- could you help me better understand what you mean by 'equal playing ground'?


Evaluate each sub under the same conditions. Same enclosure. Same amp.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So my other test subject came in :


















Actually a pretty cool looking sub. The logo on the dust cap is slightly cheesy (wish it was matte black) but I can live with that. It will be hidden.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So here is an interesting experiment. I was attempting to evaluate the 10TW3-D4 using the Bose stock subwoofer amp:



















The stock sub is 4 ohm. The 10TW3-D4 is 2 ohm. I would have thunk this would produce a higher output. I was wrong. The Bose amp pushed the sub. But not as hard as the stock front midbasses. I took these plots over and over again. They all came back the same. The midbasses out-power the sub! Either the stock sub amp sensed the low impedance load and backed off. Or the stock sub does not do schitt in contributing to total output.









Blue is with sub connected. Red is with sub disconnected and front midbass only. Hardly a difference if at all.

My next step will be to replace the Bose stock Sub amplifier and to replace with something more substantial. Hopefully more on this coming soon.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

The factory sub might be more efficient and the factory location my also be more efficient.

Sent from my LGL322DL using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> The factory sub might be more efficient and the factory location my also be more efficient.
> 
> Sent from my LGL322DL using Tapatalk


I suspect both to be a factor. It seems counter intuitive since the sub is in a small plastic ported box mounted in a cavity under the cargo compartment floor. Maybe there is some sort of weird cabin gain down there? I'll find out.



























Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So, you know your amps DSP software is old when:











Seriously. I had to wipe the old DSP settings from my last vehicle. I don't intend on using the DSP inside the DC 500.1 on my next install. That will be taken care of by a newer processor. This sucker will just be used as a straight amp with enough muscle to push one or two subs.

Per recommendation above, I am putting the Bose sub back together to take readings off it. Something doesn't seem right with my findings yesterday. I did install these quick disconnects though. I will be using the harness into this amp for line level audio (yellow and purple) plus a remote turn on feed (white) for now.










Oh, and I stand corrected about my earlier observation. This subs coil Re is 2.5ohm +/- 1ohm. Therefore its average impedance will probably be somewhere between 2 and 3 ohm. This is just like the measurements of the JL 10TW3-D4 I just tried out. I will try to do some testing tomorrow before it gets too darn hot to be outside.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. I did a lot of experimentation today with sub location in 90 degree heat with 80% humidity (it has been 45 degrees here lately). This was brutal. To level the playing field I kept the factory sub and adjusted position and conditions within the vehicle to measure affect. All measurements were made in the drivers position with the microphone midway between ear positions. The idea was top study vehicle dynamics, not just equipment. The only unknown is what funky filters the Bose Factory DSP placed on the signal prior to amplification. In my opinion, if they did EQ the sub they screwed up massively. 

First off. No sub installed vs. with factory sub. Note, the Macan has 8" woofers mounted in the front doors with no high pass filter:









You can see that the factory sub does not add low end. But, it does make a few funky boosts. Most notably at 80Hz. Also notice the massive suck out at 60Hz.

Next, here is the factory sub with the rear cargo deck open. Notice the attenuation's at 80Hz and 100Hz that occur when the cargo lid is open. It's like a loading affect is minimized.
































Now, move the factory sub from stock location to an up firing position under the cargo floor. This is similar to implementations by a number of people who have modified this vehicle. As it turns out, the frequency response is almost identical to the factory mounted location:




























Strange things happen when you fold the seats down:


















Frequency response amplitude boosts slightly but shifts up in frequency by about 5Hz.

More in the next post...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now I will move the factory sub above the hidden cargo floor and aim it all over the place.


Similar to the sub firing up under the floor but now sitting on top as if mounted in a baffle to directly fire into the cabin:











Interesting, the peak at 80Hz is reduced significantly. However, there is a significant dip created at 100Hz.











Mimicking a floor mounted sub pointed backwards:









This orientation yields a slight boost at 80Hz over the up-firing orientation. Also, the dip at 100Hz still exists but is less pronounced:











Mimicking a right side firing subwoofer that would be mounted in the left side panel:










Results are very similar to the rear firing sub orientation. Slightly less boost at 80Hz and dip at 100Hz:











Mimicking a left side mounted sub firing right. Cable lengths prevented me from moving all the way over to the right:










Results are within 1dB of right firing sub orientation. This is within measurement to measurement error:










There are a few commonalities no matter how the sub is oriented:










1.) The sub adds no low frequency extension beyond what the front doors provide.
2.) Orienting the sub differently does not add any low frequency extension.
3.) No matter how the sub is oriented there is always a suck out at 60Hz.
4.) Boost at 80Hz and dip at 100Hz varies with sub orientation
5.) Installing the subwoofer under the cargo hatch floor adds bass boost. As a matter of fact mounting under the cargo floor eliminates the dip at 100Hz.
6.) Folding the rear seats down and opening up the hatch to the front cabin harms bass response.

For sure Bose is altering vehicle frequency response through equalization. Whether or not they did a good job at this is not the point. The purpose for this exercise was to see how different subwoofer orientations impact frequency response of a known system whether it be perfect or not. It is very apparent that sub position does impact lower frequency response to varying degrees.

I also suspect that Bose is allowing the frequency range of the front woofers to overlap the subwoofer to a large extent. This may be the reason behind the peaks and valley's seen in response as the sub is moved to different positions or is mounted under the cargo floor.

Next up I will place an aftermarket sub and amplifier in the vehicle to see if I can improve bass response further.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

No, this is not my final install. Just updating my test mule to see what sub I like:





































I have a bit more power on tap now than I had with the stock Bose subwoofer amp. I did some preliminary gain setting and experimentation last night before shutting things down for the day. All I can say is DAMN! Now that's what real bass sounds like in this car. I did take some REW plots. However, as luck would have in my PC Blue Screened before I could save them off. Some driver quirk when disconnecting my USB audio interface...

Hopefully more on this topic this evening.

Ge0


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

This is awesome work by you! I’m going to assume that my Panamera Bose system will have similar responses. Can’t wait to build that system!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I did some sub testing over the last few days. As you can see I have the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 mounted to a 1.25 cu/ft sealed enclosure pointing upwards in my rear hatch as it would be if i mounted it under the floor.











Here is the response graph with and without the pathetic factory sub:









The factory sub does nothing more than add a huge boost at 80Hz over the front door midbass??? Strange.

Anyway, if we add a serious amp and a decent sub we can make improvements. Here is the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 powered by a Zapco DC Reference 500.1 in red. The factory system with no sub in green:










As you can see we gain some amplitude in the bass range AND extend low frequency response by a considerable margin. The listening experience was good with a noticeable amount of low frequency extension with songs that required it. Bass was much less Boomy and more controlled.

Now let's keep all amp settings the same and switch subs. The Sundown Audio SD4-d4 is also on my list. This is a strange little sucker that my friends encouraged me to try. Sundown SD4-D4 in Blue:









I was impressed with the measurements. My initial subjective thoughts on this sub were "man I need to turn the bass down". This sub is efficient.

But, before I could get a chance to reduce output gain by -3dB for another evaluation my amp over heated and failed. CRAP!!! Technical difficulties preventing me from making a decision...

More on this later while I get my hardware issues sorted out. Maybe an amp repair. Maybe a new amp.

In the mean time I am impressed with the Sundown Audio SD4 given it is nearly $100 cheaper than the JL Audio 10TW3-D4

Ge0


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

Interesting.

You plan to do any down firing testing?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

No. That would not be practical in the space I have. I would need a deeper sub floor. I only did side and rear firing for a comparison.\\

Ge0


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Great thread!


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

Ge0 said:


> No. That would not be practical in the space I have. I would need a deeper sub floor. I only did side and rear firing for a comparison.\\
> 
> Ge0


Understandable, just thought I'd ask due to my usage of a downfiring enclosure, thought it would be interesting to see what sort of effect it has verse rear, front, side, and upward firing. 

Seen you mention in another thread that you had done this testing, so I hopped in to see if there was a major difference between downfiring and Amy of the others, only to see you didn't test it. It's cool though, it wasn't applicable for your situation.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Fun with circles:

I have an idea on how to mount the door based midranges.


























'

Make a pattern:














































Lesson learned. Don't cut ABS plastic with a dull Jig Saw blade at 1:30am and many beers in you.










Correction time:


















To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have the plastic mounting rings but need foam buffers to prevent vibration:









































































I lack the proper tools to make this look pretty (no laser cutter or 3D printer). And, I could have done this sober. But, it will be functional enough. I will bolt the midranges to the rings then insert the foam rings and bolt it down into the stock location in the door panel.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

I think your subconscious is telling you that deep down you're an Audi guy... 

But in all seriousness, beautiful work. Following eagerly.











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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> I think your subconscious is telling you that deep down you're an Audi guy...
> 
> But in all seriousness, beautiful work. Following eagerly.
> 
> ...


You liked my final touch eh? My car is based off the Q5 platform 

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Ge0 said:


> You liked my final touch eh? My car is based off the Q5 platform
> 
> Ge0


Mine too. T3 Touareg.

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Getting started on my rings for the sub and front midbass. The sub ring will stay MDF. I will translate the front rings to HDPE for a weather proof door install.









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I got these coming in the mail:









And these sitting ready to be installed for a midbass show down. Who is going to win?



















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I just got a present from Chris in the mail. Damn these suckers area pretty. Oh, and huge!


















Just for a comparison. The MW182 is much larger than the AP8. This photo doesn't seem to capture the difference.









Supposed to have some great weather this weekend. Let's see how far we can get. No if my ResoNix order would ever come in...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Construction day today. My God I forgot how messy cutting rings was. Saw dust everywhere...


I prefer to transfer my ring patterns to MDF prior to cutting so I can see what the router bit should be doing.










Prior to starting a cut I fix the work piece to a waste backing piece. Here I use 2 wood screws. Double sided tape would work too. But Amazon has not delivered that yet. Wood screws are more secure anyway.










Putting the Jasper Jig to work. A pain in the butt for now. My plunge router has not come in. I need to stop with each pass and manually set depth using this fixed based finishing router:




























Here are the cut rings for today. Thunderstorms moving in. Need to cut work short. Need to make remaining rings tomorrow.










This guy makes outdoor cleanup easy:










Much more tomorrow...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

A few things I learned today. Spend $15 on a good compass from Amazon. It does not shift while drawing, is much more accurate, and makes your job MUCH easier.










Also, mark all holes with a center punch. Makes drilling a snap










Making more rings to accommodate 10" and 8" midranges:


















Ge0


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## UberPlant (Feb 27, 2015)

Ha, I step back in here and your rocking it. I think I bought from you under an old name I can’t access. I like your work. I’m here to learn.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

UberPlant said:


> Ha, I step back in here and your rocking it. I think I bought from you under an old name I can’t access. I like your work. I’m here to learn.


Could be. I haven't sold anything on this forum for about 5 years. But, I fully intend on selling more to fund this build . Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll keep it up. Stay tuned.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I spent another day finishing up the MDF rings.

This one was a little tricky. The upper ring is so big for the MW182 that it covers up the 9-1/2" diameter mounting bolt pattern. So, I pre-drilled some notches prior to routing:




























I figured out last week that my existing circle cutter could not cut holes smaller than 7-1/2". So I ordered a newer one that allows me to cut the holes I need. The trick was mounting my palm router with non-standard bolt patterns. Clamp the old one to the new on and drill new holes for my palm router.










Back in business:










I don't have a dust collection system. So, I blow it into the back yard. I wonder if MDF dust contains nutrients for seedling grass


















Finally. All KDF rings cut. Cripe what a chore with the equipment I have. I would love one of those CNC laser tables. My scrap wood backer board took quite a beating.


















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now to clean up the edges. Two hours of sanding...




























The left set can accommodate a 10" midbass. The right set an 8" midbass.










I realized after the fact that I chose the wrong center point for my screw head cut-outs. Oh well, it will still work. I can correct this in the HDPE version later this week.



















All of this work (8 hours) to create simple templates. I hope the flush trim bit works miracles and makes transferring these shapes to HDPE a breeze. Can't do this work quite yet. FEDEX still has not delivered my plunge router and router shield.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Some may ask why the heck am I making all these circles? Let's start here:

I need to replicate the shape of the stock door woofer:














































So, this is what I created. Fixtures to hold alternative speakers in the proper factory position so they are compatible with the space allocated to speakers in the doors. 















































The new speaker assemblies can bolt right into the door where the factory woofer would have been.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Wood is easy to cut and manipulate. However, it is prone to moisture damage. The inside of a door gets wet as rain water leaks through the window seals. Wood will absorb this moisture and deteriorate. Therefore, it is better to make these fixtures, or speaker spacers, out of a plastic material made for wet conditions.

The wooden spacer rings will be used as templates to make as many plastic speaker rings as I want. I'm going to try a number of different door midbass speakers. Might as well be prepared for different sizes...

















































































The new water proof spacer rings are rough cut. In a few days I will show how I can use the wood templates I made to make perfect replicas in plastic.

Ge0


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Don’t see any pictures from post 64. But everything else shows up and looks good. Nice (tedious) work.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

The pics are showing for me (I'm posting 3 hours later). Where'd you get that mini sweeper and dust pan?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I re-uploaded the pics for the 3rd time Grrr.... They should be visible to everyone now. Mini sweeper and dust pan came from Target. That came in handy for this mess.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes pics were working.

Unlike the mdf the plastic is not biodegradable so cleaning is more essential.

You do very good work. 

I am very bothered by your lack of Audi rings in your last group. 

Sent from my LGL322DL using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> Yes pics were working.
> 
> Unlike the mdf the plastic is not biodegradable so cleaning is more essential.
> 
> ...


Too many circles 

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

What I noticed is that if you upload a picture on this forum while creating a post, and then get distracted while making the post, the pictures will fail to upload properly if you wait too long to hit POST REPLY.

For instance, if I upload a pic and then start writing a paragraph about it, then go searching for another pic, then go grab another beer before hitting Post Reply, the upload will fail. I'm ADD. It's in my nature to bounce around topics before finishing one 

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

What’s that attachment on the dremel you used in one of your pictures?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> What’s that attachment on the dremel you used in one of your pictures?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is a 1/8th inch spiral upcut bit. This sucker chews through HDPE like butter with the Dremel and router base attachment. Saved me about an hour taking vibration shock with a damn jig saw. A job to light for my palm router but a good match here. It moves fast though. So, you need to use careful control or you will chew through stuff you don't want to.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I received a few toys in the mail today. This one will replace my brain dead Zapco DC Reference 500.1 for subwoofer duties. It will deliver 645W to my 10" sub. That should be more than adequate. Maybe add a 2nd sub?




























The amp is larger than I expected but I can still fit it on an amp rack where the factory sub used to sit. And oh my God is this thing heavy. I was going to mount it to a 1/4" HDPE back plate with two fastening points. I may need to rethink this. Now I wish I had a welder...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is another cool toy. I am so excited to try out my new selection of router bits on a router table. Does brand affiliation have anything to do with my Job







?



















The only thing is I needed to clean up this old nasty Craftsman router table I had stored in my garage for 10+ years. My son left a bag of ice melting salt on top of it. Moisture hit and the bag leaked. The built in router was seized up. So I bought a new one. Now all I need to do is clean this up so it will be functional enough for light router work.




























After all this work I soon realized this table does not have standard mounting patterns. I can't bolt my dang router to it! That and the material is so thin I can't drill and countersink new holes. DRATS!!!. I didn't want to spend another 3 or 4 days building a new one so ordered this:









I pick it up tomorrow.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

ADD strikes again. Pictures didn't post.

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> ADD strikes again. Pictures didn't post.
> 
> Sent from my LGL322DL using Tapatalk


F$%king forums. I verified the photos uploaded properly last night. Then overnight "poof" they disappear. I just uploaded again. Just like I did last night.

Ge0


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

I'm seeing all the pics of tools, just not the amp in post #73. Love to see new routers and tables. I the the Craftsman version of that Bosch set (with darker handles) that I need to open. I've always gone to my Dewalt DW621 instead.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

nyquistrate said:


> I'm seeing all the pics of tools, just not the amp in post #73. Love to see new routers and tables. I the the Craftsman version of that Bosch set (with darker handles) that I need to open. I've always gone to my Dewalt DW621 instead.


Weird. I see the amps in post #73. I'll re-upload yet again.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Well, I won't be re-uploading my photos in post #73 after all. The forum software won't let me...

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

I see the amp in 73... (just saying...)


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Helix G one


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

I see them all now... 

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

And I didn't do a thing to them. Strange.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Welcome to the interwebs... Where everything is exactly as it seems... NOT!

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Amp rack today. A 10" deep cavity and two bolt points:



















Make pattern 1




































Now, work on fitment and cable routing:













































I'll transfer the MDF template to 1/4" HDPE tomorrow.

The trick is how do I create brackets that attach from the factory tie down points to the amp rack board. I have an idea of the shape but no way to fabricate in metal.

Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Great thread!


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Not sure what you’re planning to make the mount from but if you wanted to weld, here’s an option










If HDPE, I’m sure you could cut the piece whole but I’m trying to think through how you’d mount the amp base to it. 


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I was thinking about bending a few of these:


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I made my new amp rack today:








































































Ready to test subs again...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I also finished my speaker rings today. I started with 3/4" oversized bearings to bring the rough flush cut closer to the wood:



























Next, flush cut bit with stock 1/2 inch bearing:




























Now add some soft edges with a chamfer bit:






































Ready to install...

Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice machine work!


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Runs look great!


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

May I ask where you got the thick HDPE?

And beautiful work!

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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

Not sure if you’ve finalized your amp rack mounting solution, but in case you weren’t aware you can heat and bend ABS.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> May I ask where you got the thick HDPE?
> 
> And beautiful work!
> 
> Sent from my LGL322DL using Tapatalk


I get 12" x 24" half inch sheets from Amazon. You can get various thicknesses and sizes fairly cheap.



















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

farfromovin said:


> Not sure if you’ve finalized your amp rack mounting solution, but in case you weren’t aware you can heat and bend ABS.


Already on it . I'm going to attempt making brackets out of 1/4" material.

Ge0


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

Ge0 said:


> Already on it . I'm going to attempt making brackets out of 1/4" material.
> 
> Ge0


ABS is more versatile than HDPE; bends, glues, etc...


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

farfromovin said:


> ABS is more versatile than HDPE; bends, glues, etc...


I purposely didn't make the amp rack out of ABS because I didn't know how it would hold up to heat. But, I'm about to place another order. I may try some.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

You know that smell of over heated voice coil?


















Sundown says this sucker can take some power. 600W to be exact. Well, the G One is supposed to deliver 675W into 2 ohm. I believe it. This little 10" had my teeth rattling. Albeit I had the bass kicked up higher than I normally would listen to. But this sub took it even when stuffed into an over sized 1.25cu/ft enclosure. No signs of distortion at all. It just had that smell afterwards. I'll dial the gain down some. The funny thing is after 30 minutes of abuse the amp was hardly warm to the touch .

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

farfromovin said:


> ABS is more versatile than HDPE; bends, glues, etc...


I can bend HDPE. Similar to ABS. It's the gluing part that sucks. Wish I could glue HDPE. However, I can screw it together just fine.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I made my main amp rack today:


























































































Next...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now comes the plastic part...



















Imperfection shot for DavidRam  The thin plastic panel was warped. Some tool grabbed it.




































This turned out fine. However, I don't think the 1/4" thick material is going to work. In order to mount the amp and MOST25 adapter I need to counter-sink the amp board mounting screws. This will not work with 1/4" material. I need to go down at least 1/8" inch. This doesn't leave enough material to be mechanically strong. So, looks like tomorrow I copy this to a 1/2" sheet.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

How about some speaker porn?


















https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11840&d=1592274087

































































Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. I'm pretty anal about my work and needed to redo my amp rack. The 1/4" material was just too flimsy for my comfort zone. It only took a few hours. So, here we go...

Trying to align HDPE templates sucks. The pieces slip and slide against each other like Teflon or Astro Glide. That and the 1/4" board was warped from the supplier. This made the job even more tricky:










Use the mounting screws as indexes for the new template




























Chamfer your edges of course. Don't want to cut yourself on sharp edges. Plus, it looks slick.










Man these counter bore bits look mean.










Short work oin the drill press and complete. Definitely use a drill press here. If not your countersinks will turn out crooked.




























All done. Timefor a desert.










Ge0


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## boomeh (Apr 8, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> I can bend HDPE. Similar to ABS. It's the gluing part that sucks. Wish I could glue HDPE. However, I can screw it together just fine.
> 
> Ge0


We use HDPE for gas distribution. Gluing isn’t necessary if you’re able to evenly heat it so you can bond it to itself. I don’t know if that information will help you. We use a flat double-sided (McElroy) iron that heats it to about 425 degrees F. Or you can use a propane torch set low (FYI we don’t do this on gas pipe, don’t worry ) and use epoxy as there are certain kinds that bond just fine with the right prep. Just have to prep the surface with some emory cloth or 120 grit sandpaper first, heat it and either bond it to itself by melt or use the epoxy to bond it to other materials.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

boomeh said:


> We use HDPE for gas distribution. Gluing isn’t necessary if you’re able to evenly heat it so you can bond it to itself. I don’t know if that information will help you. We use a flat double-sided (McElroy) iron that heats it to about 425 degrees F. Or you can use a propane torch set low (FYI we don’t do this on gas pipe, don’t worry ) and use epoxy as there are certain kinds that bond just fine with the right prep. Just have to prep the surface with some emory cloth or 120 grit sandpaper first, heat it and either bond it to itself by melt or use the epoxy to bond it to other materials.


Hmm. Very interested. Can you point me to any tutorials / Youtube videos? I'm starting to appreciate this material and want to learn more.

Geo


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I spent my day dialing in sub to midbass transition as good as I could given the limitations of my current system. Bose factory amp sending weird boosted signal to my sub amp. Using sub amp gain, phase, and crossover adjust to try to get the best blend possible. I took a few quick measurements of each sub under identical circumstances. Same 1.25cu/ft sealed enclosure and same amp settings. Then I spent hours driving the 5 mile loop around my neighborhood testing the subs so I would not bother one neighbor too much at one time







.

I think there is some major constructive and destructive interference going on between front midbass and sub playing a similar frequency range. I can get rid of most of this once I install my V Eight. But until then here are my findings:










SD4 Distortion









10TW3 Distortion









The Sundown Audio SD4-D4 is slightly more efficient than the JL Audio 10TW3-D4. Both subs exhibit similar distortion levels within the 10Hz to 80Hz pass band using 12dB/octave crossovers.

My primary music evaluation sources were:

a.) Metallica And Justice For All album tracks
1.) Blackened
2.) ...And Justice For All
6.) Harvester of Sorrow
9.) Dyers Eve

I chose this album for its snappy / articulate kick drum action. Here the drums are mixed a little higher level to accentuate them in the tracks. A great chest thumping balance

b.) DJ Icey 
1.) Camino Real
2.) Gutterpump
3.) Blue Chips
4.) A little louder

I chose him for his bass filled funk explosions

c.) Knife Party
1.) Centepide
2.) Sleaze
3.) Power Gloive
4.) EDM Electronic Deth Machine

d.) The entire Crystal Method Vegas Album

e.) The entire Days of the New Yellow album

e.) Various Slipknot tracks









f.) Various tracks from the Joshua Redman Moodswing album

g.) The entire Miles Davis Kind of Blue album


Throughout my testing both subs sounded pretty darn good. It was hard to tell the difference with the Jazz albums. Not a lot of deep bass. But, the stand up bass was replicated great through the limited portion of the subs pass band.

I found the the 10TW3 was ever so slightly more articulate with the metal kick drum tunes. It reacted ever so slightly faster between quick and light passages. However, the SD4 provided a more pronounced whack that caught your attention. It sounded stronger between the two, like in your chest.

The SD4 owned the 10TW3 on bass heavy tunes. The 10TW3 could play them but seemed more forced like it was struggling to replicate but not over-stressed. When playing the same tunes with the SD4 it was immediately apparent that it was perfectly happy being pushed. It just sounded like it belonged there.

I have to be honest. I was surprised by these results. I thought the 10TW3 would be the clear winner. However, the SD4 was not going to take no for an answer. It did everything I need it to and kept asking for more.

Winner winner chicken dinner --> Sundown Audio SD4-D4

Now let's see if Crutchfield will still accept the JL Audio 10TW3-D4 for a refund.

Ge0


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Looking good! Lots of fun and thorough testing.

Nice to see another Days of the New fan! I’ve loved that Yellow album since it came out, even seen them live a couple of times. Now and Where I Stand are probably my favorite tracks on there. Do you have their Green and Red albums too?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

ambesolman said:


> Looking good! Lots of fun and thorough testing.
> 
> Nice to see another Days of the New fan! I’ve loved that Yellow album since it came out, even seen them live a couple of times. Now and Where I Stand are probably my favorite tracks on there. Do you have their Green and Red albums too?
> 
> ...


I really don't have favorite tracks on the Yellow album. They all have their own unique energy and flair. Yes. I also own the Green and then Red albums. The Green was more of a progressive story album. The Red brought back most of Travis's original style with more electric guitar rock twist. I like a few songs off each. However, I keep going back to the Yellow as my reference standard.

Now, you want to hear some cool **** along similar music style but totally different Southwest tone? Try listening to these guys from Tuscon. The Band is called Calexico. My favorite album is "Black Light". They continue to make music up to present day. However, I have only listened to their earlier work before 2003. Some of it is pretty good.

Ge0


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

haha very happy you liked the SD-4. I'm really looking forward to another build one day with one or two of them


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have space and capacity to add a second. Once I return the 10TW3 that is in my forecast.


Ge0


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

0.0


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## boomeh (Apr 8, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> Hmm. Very interested. Can you point me to any tutorials / Youtube videos? I'm starting to appreciate this material and want to learn more.
> 
> Geo


McElroy has fusion training on YouTube. It’s specifically for gas pipe, though. As far as the epoxy route, I hear “G-Flex” works well. Maybe there are videos on that. Honestly I’ve never done it. I’ve heard some old guys talking about a glue they used to use for plastic gas pipe but I would have to ask around. The material is the same, so it should still apply.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Strangely enough Bose specifies both 4" and 3.5" drivers in the vehicles overall audio architecture. The center channel is easy to get to. So today I chose the 3.5" driver out of convenience. This size is used for center channel and rear fill effect channels. The slightly larger 4" is used for front door midrange only. I intend on cramming 4" midranges in all spots for consistency. So some modification may be required.

I know the ScanSpeak 10F has a 3-1/6" cut out. I start by rough cutting 3" holes in MDF for my templates. I can easily get the 3-16th" needed by adding a mild chamfer.










The problem with routing such small holes with a circle jig is that a majority of your work is hidden. You can't see the cut. You just need to feel it. In this instance with the circle to the left the router cut through the base material and the center plug shifted. This caused me to gouge out an ovular circle pattern before I knew what was going on. I am going to scrap this piece dammit!!!


















Luckily enough, the circle to the right cut perfect. I can use it as a pattern to cut a new piece. Just tape them together and cut:





































Now that we have holes, what about speakers?










More to come

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now let's copy a speaker:










Bolt it to the baffle with a 3" cut out










Flush trim it










Copy of the stock speaker shape










Transfer this to scrap plastic














































Oh boy. Looks like I need to compensate for the larger driver. It overhangs the stock trim ring.










Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now let's enlarge the rings with an oversized flush trim bit bearing to accept a 4" driver:

Start by cutting the holes with a normal flush frim bit.
















\


The best oversized bearing size I had was 1-1/8th" I wanted 1" but did not have that. Fortunately aaaaai don't think this will be a problem:























































I had to do a little belt sanding here to get this ring to fit at one corner:










But, the target speaker will fit. As soon as my overdue shipment of ResoNix comes in I can finish this job.









Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Loving the work...

Side note, some pictures worked some didn't.



Sent using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> Loving the work...
> 
> Side note, some pictures worked some didn't.
> 
> ...


That's my complaint. I re-uploaded them all from the same source / computer directory multiple times. I spent an hour doing this before I gave up.

Ge0


----------



## Blu (Nov 3, 2008)

@Ge0 
Wondering if it might alleviate some of your headaches and frustration to use a third party image host such as IMGUR? 🤷‍♂️
I found it easier than trying to link from my computer (admittedly I'm tech challenged).
Just throwing out an idea....


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Blu said:


> @Ge0
> Wondering if it might alleviate some of your headaches and frustration to use a third party image host such as IMGUR? 🤷‍♂️
> I found it easier than trying to link from my computer (admittedly I'm tech challenged).
> Just throwing out an idea....


The last two times I tried that the sites closed down or started to want to charge me (ex. Photobucket). I thought if I uploaded original images directly from my hard drive to the forums server that I could avoid this.

Ge0


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> The last two times I tried that the sites closed down or started to want to charge me (ex. Photobucket). I thought if I uploaded original images directly from my hard drive to the forums server that I could avoid this.
> 
> Ge0


Years ago I made the mistake of trusting all of my photos to Photobucket... needless to say there is now a long period of my life for which no visual record currently exists 😢


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

RockitFX said:


> Years ago I made the mistake of trusting all of my photos to Photobucket... needless to say there is now a long period of my life for which no visual record currently exists 😢


I still have local copies of my Photobucket stash. I just used it to host photos I post to forums like this. Sorry if you lost stuff. Are you sure it is gone? I can still access my photos. I just can't usePhotobucket to host them.

Ge0


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> I still have local copies of my Photobucket stash. I just used it to host photos I post to forums like this. Sorry if you lost stuff. Are you sure it is gone? I can still access my photos. I just can't usePhotobucket to host them.
> 
> Ge0


I'll be honest, it's been so many years that I'm not sure they'd still be on the site, but I guess it doesn't hurt to check! I'll add that to my list of things to do tonight 😊 thanks


----------



## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Now all of them are there. It may just take a while for the server / site to process them.

Either way fantastic work! ( except for posting the pics... JOKING!)

Sent using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> Now all of them are there. It may just take a while for the server / site to process them.
> 
> Either way fantastic work! ( except for posting the pics... JOKING!)
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


****er .

Seriously though. I spent another hour this morning uploading them. Hopefully this sticks 

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

More fabrication today for the front door midranges. I'm going to make 2 sets of rings. One is 1/4" HDPE and the other is 1/8" ABS. The HDPE is stronger but the ABS will probably fit better. So, let's fab this Sh!t up and see.

Start by removing the factory speaker to make my master template:
















'






































Now like before transfer to scrap pieces of plastic:




























The stack height here may be an issue:









To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I ran out of 1/4" HDPE scraps so decided to sacrifice the 1/4" amp rack I made. As I told you before, I was not 100% satisfied with it anyway. That, and the board was warped as delivered from the supplier.




















Did I mention it is Fathers Day? I decided to treat myself since it was so dang hot and humid out.










The ABS is too thin to drive screws into so I used my trusted double sided tape to hold the pieces together:





































Can you tell which rings I did on the router vs. what I did with a jig saw late at night with a few beers in me?



























To be continued...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now for the test fit in my door:











The 1/4" HDPE rings almost fit. But, the tab where the ring fits into the lower left hand pocket is too thick. 










The ABS rings fit like a glove. But, they feel flimsy.





































I think what I am going to do is modify the 1/4" rings to fit. I can shave 1/16" off this corner with a rabbeting bit and be good to go:









If I can finish my fabrication work MAYBE I will actually be able to install the midranges tomorrow...

Ge0


----------



## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

Good thing staying hydrated in the humid heat. Safety first! Wait, those adapters you made after a few beers look like mine when I didn’t drink  I completely blame my harbor freight router table and bits which have since been replaced by quality tools and the difference is night and day!

All the parts you’ve made look pretty dialed in!


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

farfromovin said:


> Good thing staying hydrated in the humid heat. Safety first! Wait, those adapters you made after a few beers look like mine when I didn’t drink  I completely blame my harbor freight router table and bits which have since been replaced by quality tools and the difference is night and day!
> 
> All the parts you’ve made look pretty dialed in!


Thanks dude. I think the ****ty rings had more to do with the jig saw than beers. Glad I decided to remake them since i had the tools out already.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Speaker mounting ring modified:
























Course thread fasteners were too long and left sharp edges poking through the back side of the mounting ring. So, I decided to drill and tap the HDPE. This works just fine as long as I don't need to remove and replace the fasteners often. In this case, I will hopefully only be threading these once.
















































































Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Sometimes it is great when things actually work as planned.























































Test fit with oversized 10" midbass speaker successful. Ample clearance with window mechanism inside. Ample clearance with door trim on the other side.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

More progress today. Fitting the sub:

































































To be continued:

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

More sub action:

Find and mark the subs location on the baffle:















































The baffle










Carboard template to confirm shape:









Fitment check. Spare tire clearance looks good:










The sub amp is bigger than what I had planned. The fit with amp rack is close but no interference. I will leave things be for now. I have physically smaller amp options available if needed. This would shrink the amp rack to a manageable size.



















Hmmm. This amp is about half the power rating but is a little smaller:



















Tomorrow I mount the sub and check it out.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So, I did more stuff after work today:


I drew some circles and marked some hole locations:










Make sure my pilot holes line up with a speaker ring:










Then I cut yet another hole with my circle jig. I think the yellow color is pretty cool. The old grey one was kinda blah. Plus, the yellow jig gives me 4X more options for hole size. I get plenty of use out of my trim router.










Speaker ring lines up with big hole. Not 100% accurate but good enough to the naked eye:










This was my first time ever using a plunge router attachment or Rabbet bit. Good thing we have Youtube. The learning curve was quick.










Practice on this scrap piece and set the plunge depth I want.










Making this recess was effortless:










What is this all for you say?



























To install this high excursion 10" beast of a subwoofer.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. Now I need to consider how I am going to protect the sub.

I bought this 12"x12" sheet of perforated 1/16th" sheet steel:









But, I have to cut it into shape for this hole AND find a good way to secure it so it does not vibrate and make unwanted noise:










I don't trust my ability to cut a good circle in the sheet steel with a metal blade and cheap jig saw. I may whip up a drawing and farm this job out. I put in this much effort. I just want the job done right. 

I'm thinking about laying down a thin closed cell foam gasket in the groove and then screwing the metal grill down over it. Hopefully I can provide drawings / my concept tomorrow.

Ge0


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Since it's perforated, maybe should use a hand tool (shears or nibbler) to trim the circle...


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

diy.phil said:


> Since it's perforated, maybe should use a hand tool (shears or nibbler) to trim the circle...


The material is a bit too thick for shears. Maybe a nibbler.

Ge0


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Geo fantastic work! The router is my favorite tool! Don't know if you care but your Jasper is mounted upside down. You would think the writing would be visible from the top but look at the recessed/beveled screw holes. Anyway killer job! How hard are the sill panels to remove on your Porsche?


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Geo fantastic work! The router is my favorite tool! Don't know if you care but your Jasper is mounted upside down. You would think the writing would be visible from the top but look at the recessed/beveled screw holes. Anyway killer job! How hard are the sill panels to remove on your Porsche?


LOL. Caught me!!! Seriously though. The Jasper Jig did not have a bolt pattern for my trim router. So I had to make my own holes. I purposely decided to flip the jig so I could read the labels with the router facing up. Don't worry. It's perfectly centered using the included centering kit.










Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Be careful you will rub the paint and writing off the jig that way.


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> Be careful you will rub the paint and writing off the jig that way.


Huh? I would think it would be worse if the text was rubbing against wood while I was cutting. My way the text faces up and does not contact the wood.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Geo fantastic work! The router is my favorite tool! Don't know if you care but your Jasper is mounted upside down. You would think the writing would be visible from the top but look at the recessed/beveled screw holes. Anyway killer job! How hard are the sill panels to remove on your Porsche?


Sorry for my ignorance. What are the sill panels?

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I did some more stuff today:

Start with this:










This tool set is cheap and highly useful









Dremel 2000-01 VersaTip Precision Butane Torch Portable Micro Torch Mini Welder:Amazon:Home Improvement

So is this little heat gun









Wagner Spraytech 0503038 HT400 Embossing Heat Gun, 350 Watt, Dual Temp Adjustable Heat Tool (680°F/450°F), 3 Usage Positions with Built-In Stand, Great for Shrink Wrapping and Countless DIY Projects:Amazon:Home Improvement


Ok, where was I? Start wiring the sub:

I like to use tie downs to hold the wire, provide strain relief, and reduce vibration.










Ready to solder on disconnects:










Use hot air gun to properly apply heat shrink:





























Good to go:









To be continued:

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now for the car side:

Make sure sub amp is off. Prep wire end for soldering:







against


These connectors are robust against soldering heat but not perfect. Take your time. Be careful. Make sure your solder joints are wet and flow properly:



















Protect your conducting ends with heat shrink



















Lay sub speaker cable in convenient location:










plug'er in:









Done












Half time...









To be continued:

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now let's talk sheet metal:

I need to make a circle pattern in this sheet of perforated steel. Obviously pencil does not show up. I could not fit a pen in this compass. I could not etch / scratch a line in the steel used the compasses sharp point. What to do?










I thought of this. Will the tape stick?










Increase the clarity of the cut line with sharpe fine point pen.










Secure the sheet metal to a backboard with wood screws to prevent vibration during cut.




















I ran out of daylight today to actual;l;y cut the sheet metal. Maybe more action tomorrow.

Ge0


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> Sorry for my ignorance. What are the sill panels?
> 
> Ge0


Maybe that's not what they're called... the plastic trim pieces at the bottom of the door openings that cover the wires and unfinished edge of the floor carpet. Like if it was your house it would be the threshold.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Maybe that's not what they're called... the plastic trim pieces at the bottom of the door openings that cover the wires and unfinished edge of the floor carpet. Like if it was your house it would be the threshold.


Sorry. My brain fart. Sill-guards. They are fairly easy to remove. I plan on doing so to run speaker wire. Why do you ask?

Ge0


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## humandrummachine (May 17, 2010)

The craftsmanship here is inspiring. If your grill doesn't work out I have a 10" classic style waffle grill you can have.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> Sorry. My brain fart. Sill-guards. They are fairly easy to remove. I plan on doing so to run speaker wire. Why do you ask?
> 
> Ge0


My wife has a 19 Q7 with Bose and I'm going to change the sub and add an amp... not going down the rabbit hole with this one! The reason I ask about the guards is I need to remove the passenger side to run a power wire from the battery which is located in the front passenger foot well. Just a little intimidated because it's an expensive car and I know sometimes the Germans over engineer stuff and was wondering if there were any things to keep in mind.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> My wife has a 19 Q7 with Bose and I'm going to change the sub and add an amp... not going down the rabbit hole with this one! The reason I ask about the guards is I need to remove the passenger side to run a power wire from the battery which is located in the front passenger foot well. Just a little intimidated because it's an expensive car and I know sometimes the Germans over engineer stuff and was wondering if there were any things to keep in mind.


Just buy yourself a good trim removal kit like this one. NO FLATHEAD SCREW DRIVERS OR STEEL PRY BARS .








Amazon.com: Trim Removal Tool, 120Pcs Car Panel Door Audio Removal Tool Kit, Auto Clip Pliers Fastener Remover Pry Tool Set with Storage Bag : Automotive


Buy Trim Removal Tool, 120Pcs Car Panel Door Audio Removal Tool Kit, Auto Clip Pliers Fastener Remover Pry Tool Set with Storage Bag: Upholstery & Trim Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

humandrummachine said:


> The craftsmanship here is inspiring. If your grill doesn't work out I have a 10" classic style waffle grill you can have.


Thanks for the offer. I wanted a heavier gauge steel that won't flex when I stack stuff on top of it in the trunk. I'll git'er done one way or another.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I think I have this figured out. This little wheel is leaving a real good score mark. But, it is loud as hell and bothering my neighbors. Who are eating dinner or trying to sit down and watch TV for the night. I'll pick this back up in the morning with a metal cut off wheel.



















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Weird day today I made a little progress:

This metal rips through these cut off wheels:










But, a nice fine line:










I think I went through 9 cut off wheels total:



















Sharp crisp edges:



















Take off sharp edges the easy way:










Polish it up a little better










Good enough fit. The grill is 1/16th" undersized. However, this may work out ok.










To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now secure everything down with silicon adhesive:

















































































I was trying to wrap things up and move onto the next step tonight when I got a desperate call from my son. My 15yo had an accident on a kids Razor scooter across the neighborhood and cut an 8" gash in is leg to his bone. I'm covered in metal shavings and saw dust. My car is ripped to pieces including no door panels. Factory trim sitting in the back seat.

I grabbed a bunch of towels and duct tape I had close at hand for my build and took off. He bled all over my front seat and left hunks of fat tissue on my floor mat. Thank god to rubberized winter floor mats that I never took out. Christ. One road block after another...

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Hope your kid is ok


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

He's ok. A bit loopy on pain killers. Vomiting here and there. But ok and in bed. Thanks.

Ge0


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Great build log! Been meaning to ask... is your enclosure going to be sealed? If so, how?


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad your son is ok.. Material things can be replaced but family can not.

Happy side note, chicks dig scars... ;-)

Sent using Tapatalk


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Sorry to hear about your son! Wishing him a speedy recovery


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> Glad your son is ok.. Material things can be replaced but family can not.
> 
> Happy side note, chicks dig scars... ;-)
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


Yep. I have a few from when I was young...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> Sorry to hear about your son! Wishing him a speedy recovery
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's looking a little like Frankenstein right now but OK. Thanks.

Ge0


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your son. Hope he can be well soon!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm glad your son is ok. It's always a little scary when a kiddo gets hurt like that. Hopefully he has a speedy recovery.

I'm looking forward to seeing your finish work on the enclosure.


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

I’m looking forward to seeing those doors finished!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Still waiting on my ResoNix order to come in. Making some progress that I will post tomorrow. But, the majority needs to wait.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I made a little more build progress over the last few days.

Apply silicon seal / adhesive the subwoofer mounting ring to prevent leaks / vibration:










Of course excess material oozes out everywhere












Scrape it off and clean it up. Not too worried about aesthetics. I just want to make sure flocking material and paint will adhere:






























Put everything back together:



















Almost ready for carpet and such...










I still need to cut 3/4"x1/4" deep rabbets here:










And 1" x 1/4" rabbets here if I want the baffle to sit flush with the floor with carpet installed:










Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now seal up the front door midbass rings. I know silicon will not stick well to HDPE but I am not using it for structural support. Only for a gasket. I have 12 screws holding the ring together tight:









Disassemble the rings and apply goop:





































Fortunately the scrape off and wipe down of silicon was easy against a surface that is does not soak into / bond to. Just don't let it harden. Then you have a mess to clean up.


















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I did a few things after work today:

I installed these speaker terminals from Madisound



















I got this heat shrink kit from Amazon. I think there was like 1000 pieces in 20 different sizes for like $10. Not the best quality I have ever used but good enough.




















Install XT60 connectors from Amazon:










One characteristic of my new Bosch / Dremel soldering iron I do not care for. That little hole in the soldering tip vents out hot air like a blast furnace. It will absolutely scorch your skin or work piece if you don't have it aimed just right:










See the scorch marks on the wire insulators? You should see the one on my thumb... It also wrecked a few XT60 connectors today as I was getting used to using it.










All shrunk up using my Wagner heat pistol.










Install speakers:



















To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Modifying midrange install a bit. I didn't like the tight fit with standard sized socket head cap screws and wanted a better seal against the door trim panel:

Use my new Amazon leather hole punch set ($12) to cut perfect holes in my closed cell foam rings. I had 6 different colors (mostly black) but thought the blue would be fun considering the color of my car:



















I love the versatility and robustness of socket head cap screws. However, here they were digging into the plastic of my door trim once the speaker was bolted on. I also needed to add weather stripping. So, changed to low profile head cap screws.














































Absolutely perfect fit







.









Side note: Adding 4" midranges throughout the vehicle where 3" units existed is a little challenging. But, work-arounds are possible and entirely doable...

Ge0


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

Low profile socket caps!!! This install just went to a whole nutha level.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

farfromovin said:


> Low profile socket caps!!! This install just went to a whole nutha level.


I didn't even know these existed until paging through McMaster Carr. That place is awesome. They actually had screws with even lower profile. But, cost was ridiculous.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So it was a scorching hot 4th of July today in Southeast Michigan. What a great day to build more speaker rings for an impulse buy:










Anyway. I got a few more toys in to help me with this job:

After being held in limbo by FedEX for 4 weeks my router shield finally came in. Wish I had this 3 weeks ago when I was making 100 dangerous cuts on the router table.










And here is a down cut spiral flush trim bit. Supposed to make the cutting process cleaner. Mmm. Maybe not so much. Nice bit nonetheless.










Start by getting out the templates, marking on HDPE, and then rough cutting. What a mess in hot / humid / sweaty weather:































































To be continued.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Rough cutting done. Let's get to routing the new style:

Rough cut rings.










Apply double sided tape on both sides of template. One layer to hold template to rough cut work piece. The other to hold template to router shield.




























Cutting was perfect and safe:



















Created a lot of scraps that I may find useful:










Drill pilot holes and add smooth chamfers.




























Done for the day. Time to start grilling hamburgers, brats, and hotdogs....

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I forgot to mention that the new speakers cut out diameter was 1/4" larger than the hole size of my templates I made for the AP8 midranges. So, I had to improvise a little with my rabbeting bit set up to cut an 1/8th" rabbet.










The bit didn't quite make a full 1/2" cut. It left a sliver at the top. But, this was easy to clean up with a chamfer bit as you can see in my last post.



















Oh, and for the spiral cut down flush trim bit. SOME of the shavings ended up shooting into the router table. Most still shot outwards to make a mess.










Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> So it was a scorching hot 4th of July today in Southeast Michigan. What a great day to build more speaker rings for an impulse buy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What speakers are those? 

Mmmm.... two hearted ale.... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> What speakers are those?
> 
> Mmmm.... two hearted ale....
> 
> ...


Audio Development W800Neo. It's an oversized 8" driver.

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> Audio Development W800Neo. It's an oversized 8" driver.
> 
> Ge0


They look nice. Like 8” shallow mount subwoofers 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

How am I going to mount this center channel when the speaker flange covers the mounting holes?





























Recess the mounting bolts. Screw on the flange before installing the speaker:





































That will work.


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> They look nice. Like 8” shallow mount subwoofers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly 

Ge0


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

Nothing like sticky armfuls of plastic dust, looking good! That router shield looks fancy. Keep it up bro, coming along killer.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have more stuff done. Just haven't had time to post progress.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Getting to the D-pillars requires you to loosen / remove other rear cargo area trim pieces. I needed access to route power wires and mount amps so I removed them all. Not too much worse than what Santrix on the Macan Forum has already done.

Start by removing two little plastic nuts on this panel:




























Next get out a pry tool and pop the trim loose in two places each side (towards center and the ends):



















The trim piece will pop free



















Next, you can pop the side trim loose. But, do not try to remove yet. It is bound at the bottom by another piece you need to remove:










In my car you need to remove these tie down hooks by unscrewing the Torx bolts. This will allow the entire trim piece to lift free. Be careful though. There is a washer under every bolt under the chrome piece. You'll loose a washer easy (like I did) if you are not aware / careful.


















To be continued

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now you can lift the side trim free. You'll need to disconnect the 12V accessory outlet and LED visibility lamp connectors before removal:



















Now everything but the D-pillar trim is removed. This gave me an interesting chance to snap a photo to judge how much clearance I will have for a speaker:









It's going to be a tight fit but probably doable.

Here is the side shot with all trim including the D-pillar removed:









The surround effects speaker sits in a little pocket between a wiring harness, sunroof drain tube, and ABS side curtain airbag deploying module (ugh ohh).










This may be a struggle to put back together with the new speaker installed. It has a power little Neodymium motor that is un-shielded. It sticks to everything metal.

While removing trim be aware that some of the clips will stay in the vehicles body and not come off with the plastic panel. I lost one of the D-pillar clips to the interior uni-body structure of the car when trying to remove it.









Here is the dinky little stock surround speaker. It's the same driver as used in the center channel:










Here it is sitting next to the midrange driver I plan on installing:


















I'm thinking I need to shrink the package envelope somehow....

To be continued.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I can't mount the speaker like this due to mounting depth limitations:



















I have an idea. Modify the speaker flange to accommodate the mounting pattern



















Now I can mount the speaker directly to the plastic panel. However, I was not happy with the grip of the screws.




























Adding some washers helped. But, not entirely happy with how they mount.











Fortunately I had some slim mounting flanges I made earlier



















Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now, how do we wire them?

Install the proper sized speaker terminals:










Steal the connector off the factory speaker:










I don't like how weak the factory connector leads are. Hold them in place with thick glue infused shrink wrap



















Once this cools down and hardens its pretty tough:










Now install:









Yes, I am going to use the factory wiring for most of my speakers. Fortunately Porsche did not skimp out on wire gauge here. That, and these are short runs from the amp.


Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I did the unthinkable and cut into the factory harnesses in the door:

Midrange































































Ge0


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## humandrummachine (May 17, 2010)

That glue infused shrink wrap is tough.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

humandrummachine said:


> That glue infused shrink wrap is tough.


For sure. Although, some day I will need to remove it to put the stock speaker back in place.

Ge0


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## EmoJackson (Aug 13, 2018)

My god this is awesome...


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

EmoJackson said:


> My god this is awesome...


Thanks. A lot of folks skip the small steps. I try to include enough detail for others to get ideas or replicate.

Ge0


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> For sure. Although, some day I will need to remove it to put the stock speaker back in place.
> 
> Ge0


I’ve come to the conclusion that while I’d like to think I’d do the same over the years when I transition a car...I find it much less painful to let them go wholly modified.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is a little bit of speaker porn:
View attachment 274064


View attachment 274065


View attachment 274066


View attachment 274067


View attachment 274068


Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

One thing I need to tell you all. The stock Bose midbass drivers may sound a little uncontrolled / sloppy. But, they are much more efficient / louder than the Dynaudio MW182's I installed today. The Bose amp supplies 80W to the midbasses at 2 ohm. My Dynaudio drivers are 4 ohm. So there's a disadvantage out of the gate.

However, I noted that the Bose drivers ran out of steam early on and did not get much louder as the volume was cranked higher. Maybe thermal compression or X-Max limitation? However, the Dynaudio drivers kept getting louder as I continued to turn up volume.

How much volume? Dunno. The damn Porsche PCM does not display volume level. So, I have no point of reference.

Anyway, on to today's antics.


After 3 months waiting my order for ResoNix FD1 never came in. So, I ordered this stuff off Amazon Prime. Two days and it was here. Pretty nice stuff for $5.00 a role.










Thanks to a few folks here I found McMaster & Carr. They have every fastener known to man and Alien. Two day delivery. I needed longer screws due to my speaker adapter rings increased thickness.










$10 set of Amazon leather hole punches has come in real handy and paid for itself:






























It's Africa hot today. Break time







. Look at the head on that pint. Hmmm...










Permanently mount the speaker adapter assembly:










Add XT60 connector. This version has a snap ring that covers your solder joints. However, I add heat shrink anyway to help fully protect the connection:










Now, strap down your connection for strain relief and vibration contriol.










Temporarily replace the door panel. Will need to remove again just in case I get my ResoNix order. If it does not come in by next week I go to Amazon Noico 80. At least I can get this in 2 days...










Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Center channel antics:


Center channel ready to go:










Blue closed cell foam is weak. Does not rebound after compression. Need a better seal...










Sip a cool beer and consider using Amazon 1/4" x 1/16th" weather stripping for $3.00 a role. Excellent material for the price.


















































Just as good as Rezonix FD1 for making gaskets at 1/10th the cost...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Today I installed my rear fill drivers. I was a little nervous about going from a 3" shallow mount Bose driver to a regular 4" midrange. But, no issues. No interference fit or weird problems due to the 

ScanSpeak 10F's super strong unshielded neodymium magnet.





































Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Yesterday when installing my driver side door midrange I broke a weak little cam lock lever on the window lift module connector. As a result, the drivers side door window lift switch panel was dead. The connector would not engage and lock. So, on the list of things to do today was to repair the cam lock lever.


A cheap little plastic piece holds the window lift switch panel connector in place. If it breaks like this the connector won't lock into place. Then, you can't control the windows from the drivers switch panel.










Temporary bond with CA glue










Rough up the plastic with sandpaper
]




















Mix up some JB weld










Apply and wait to harden











When this test specimen dries it will be time to re-install door panel. The epoxy will be strong enough.










Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Surprisingly enough. One of the toughest things I have had to do in this install is to run freaking speaker wires to the front of the vehicle for the tweeters. Factory wiring has tweeters wired parallel to door midranges with a filter capacitor. My amp will have separate channels available for the tweeters with their own dedicated DSP channels. So, they need their own speaker feeds.

Removing the door sill trim to pass wires through was a major challenge. The front door sill trim is one piece with the kick panels. The rear door sill trim is one piece with the rear cargo area trim. A major pain to remove. Especially the drivers side. The hood release latch makes it impossible to fully remove the drivers side door sill trim.

Word to the wise. In this car remove the upper B-pillar trim by the seat belts (easy) tyen remove the lower B-pillar trim with a plastic trim removal tool. Wtach it, there are at least 4 clips in the B-pillar and one on the floor.

I had to break out my electricians FISH TAPE to help route the wire. Six hours later I completed the passengers side and finished the driver side 50%. Ughh...











With rear cargo trim removed feed the wire forward down to the rear passengers door sill here:



















The wire will come out down here:










Feed the wire forward through the B-pillar towards the front door sill trim.



















Now you need to run the fish tape down from the tweeter hole to grab the wire from the other side. Be patient. This took almost an hour.



















Once you have the wire fed through start to secure it with Tie wraps everywhere you can:


















Now you can replace the front and rear door sill trim. This is a major PITA. I don't have any advice for you besides be patient and be careful. The clips mis-align / crush easily...

Ge0


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## Don Camillo (Jul 13, 2017)

How do you like the AD W800 drivers? I am thinking of using them in custom kick panels in 3 way active. But I also have some Eton 8-800/37 drivers laying brandnew. Also nice although 8 ohms. 

Nice job and car btw 👍👌


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Don Camillo said:


> How do you like the AD W800 drivers? I am thinking of using them in custom kick panels in 3 way active. But I also have some Eton 8-800/37 drivers laying brandnew. Also nice although 8 ohms.
> 
> Nice job and car btw 👍👌


I haven't tried them yet. I'm in the process of installing the stereo now. Then there is tuning. It could be a month before I'm ready to do an evaluation between these and the Dyns...

Thanks about the install work. I try

Ge0


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## EmoJackson (Aug 13, 2018)

Love the attention to detail.... Thank you for the photos. Always appreciate the knowledge share.


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## Don Camillo (Jul 13, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> I haven't tried them yet. I'm in the process of installing the stereo now. Then there is tuning. It could be a month before I'm ready to do an evaluation between these and the Dyns...
> 
> Thanks about the install work. I try
> 
> Ge0


Yeah thats what I thought that it needed to be installed, but thought maybe u heard them already... 

Okay I'll search a bit online.... I could buy a pair last week but saw they are sold already... 

Good luck with the build!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Fish tape torture and other dastardly things....

Running the tweeter wires was an absolute nightmare. Hours of work trying to get the fish tape to find the right line / hole. Cutting and gouging my hands up. Then trying to get all the trim pieces to snap back in place properly. But, I was determined to do this myself vs. pay an installer. Reminds me of the good ole days when I was a poor college kid who couldn't afford help.


It was not 100% necessary to completely remove the drivers side door sill / kick panel trim. It was easy enough to fish the wire up this piece of plastic.










Tie down wire along factory harness for security. Don't want it getting pinched somewhere...










Fishing the wire up from the kick panel and behind the fuse box was an hour of swearing and nearly giving up. The wire just could not find a right path.










Pushing the wire further up from the top of the fuse block to the tweeter hole was another test of my religion. Is there really a God? If so, why is he doing this to me?










Wire snugged up and out of the way so trim pieces don't pinch it.










For the final stretch I was able to pull the wire the rest of the way through the tweeter hole. This onloy took 20 minutes. We are on a roll!!!










I pulled about 3 extra feet of wire through the tweeter hole and stashed it in the trim. I didn't want to risk it sliding back down. The tweeter also helped hold it. Yes, at this point there is sweat, blood, and dust all over the dash and wind shield. I'll clean that up later










While I was at it I put my door trim back on. My fix for the broken connector cam lock worked







.










Wrestling the door trim back in place and making it seat properly was another hour long cussing session. I ended up removing the entire B-Pillar to make the job easier.


















In the end everything snapped back into place properly. I hope I never have to go through this mess again in this vehicle.

Now its time to move on to the cargo area and start dressing wires and preparing to install the amps.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Power distribution.

Sub floor with temporary rats nest of wires for sub amp.










Flip back the carpet:










Hmm. I thought there would be more to this. Just a cheap plastic cover?









Temporary sub amp power tap with bullet style fuse holder










Fuse holder would go great here but no potential mounting points.










Or is there?










Yank out the plastic cover:










Bare sheet metal battery well. The fact that Porsche placed sound dampener on these surfaces makes me think the metal faces exterior on the other side. So, ain't just going to go drilling...










Battery cover:










Testing a concept on scrap material:










It's difficult to bend thicker plastic but can be done.










To be continued.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK stay with me here and let me know if this is a stupid idea.

Mark off material I think I will need:










Cut it to size:



















Stick it to sacrificial board with double sided Tesa tape:










WTF is this guy up to?










Melt it into submission;










The bricks were a "fly by the seat of youyr pants" experiment but worked:










Let the plastic cool. Bricks absorb heat well. Unfortunately the plastic did not cool evenly. Left some weird creases. But the structure is still solid as a rock.










Square as Steve:









To be continued

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Ok. Not a complete work but will reveal my idea:

1/4" HDPE is thick enough to tap for light duty loads. I plan to bolt the fuse holder in like this:










Use small self taping screws to fix fuse bracket to this plastic battery well cover. The lid still closes with a 1/4" sheet inserted:










This is what the assembly would look like prior to putting back into palce in the car.










My concern is that only plastic and a few screws would be holding a high amperage fuse holder in place. It should be strong enough. But, I would feel much better about a stronger mechanical bond. However, I don't think I can just screw into sheet metal here. Any other solution allowing me to secure into sheet metal would be much further from the battery. Then I would have a longer unprotected / unfused run of power wire leading from the battery.

The best solution would be to tack weld a bracket for the fuse holder close to the battery if possible. Right around the same area I plan to mount it to plastic. But, I don't have that skill. 

Advice? If none I will just go the plastic route tomorrow to have "something" in place.

Ge0


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> Ok. Not a complete work but will reveal my idea:
> 
> 1/4" HDPE is thick enough to tap for light duty loads. I plan to bolt the fuse holder in like this:
> 
> ...


Maybe on the final version you should score the underside with a razor along your fold line. Also heat it a little slower. Do you think quenching it in water after would help with the cooling deformity? Have you consider 3m double side tape and just attaching it to the wall in the battery well? Some of that stuff is unbelievably strong! Just some thoughts. Keep up the good work!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I did a little more work today:

I applied some random goop and took some measurements. The Bose amp is still installed and it's EQ active. The only difference in measurements you see is due to treatments applied to the center channel 3-1/2" loudspeaker.

Before any treatments applied:




























Apply some CLD:




























You will see small reductions in frequency response here and there after dampening the center channels baffle. The changes you see are not actually due to reduction in musical signal output. They are reductions in panel vibrations that show up as distortion in your overall measurement. Sometimes this is a good thing. RED trace is before. Blue trace is after...











Now replace the plastic trim piece and throw everything out of whack...












The plastic trim panel has it's own significant influence on frequency response of the full range center channel. Most notably between 2KHz and 5KHz... RED trace before. GREEN trace afterwards.











The only purpose for this exercise was to show you the influence of adding changes to a system. Adding the CLD made some difference. However, placing a plastic cover over the center channel made a much larger difference. Mostly for the bad as it caused an attenuation along a large portion of the midrange response.

Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

GREAT thread!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I made a little more progress after work and chores today. Ran power feeds for both amplifiers:

Start with this rats nest:



















Temporary power feed for sub amp:










Looking to mount double fuse holder around here:










I selected a new ground point for sub amp which is about 2ft away. It was grounded to the battery retention strap. While a very short ground wire run and convenient I didn't feel 100% confident in this solution. A mechanic monkeying with the car could mess it up. Now I don't need to worry about technicians reconnecting my ground wire after servicing the battery:




























Now prepare the power distribution block. I am second guessing the use of cheap ferrules here. Will they hold?


















To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Keep stringing wire and tying it down:


Two power feeds for two amps.










Tiding up wiring by following factory wire runs.









Power, ground, remote turn on, and signal run for sub amp:











Must run Power, Remote turn on, and signal from sub amp to main amp:










Extra cable slop[ for now. But, all signals run.



















Main amp ground wire:



















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I screwed around some more today. Worked on my sub amp mounting scheme:

Bought some U channel aluminum extrusion to help hold my subwoofer amp.





































The idea is to JB Weld the aluminum U Channel to the floor. The sub amp mounting board would rest in it. Hmm, what's that in the center?





































Crap! It's a rubber access plug. Better not move forward until I understand what this is.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So, I am impatient:


Don't know what the rubber plug is work around it:










This stuff should be good for light duty:










Scuff up the surfaces so the epoxy sticks better:










I'm a little worried about misalignment of the 2 pieces. I'll need to create a crude fixture to hold stuff in place while the epoxy cures.









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

One more quick task before sunset. Gotta make use of longer days while I have them...


The factory amplifier is grounded here (Brown wire). This must be a decent grounding point for my aftermarket amplifier.










After using sandpaper for 10 minutes I determined this method of removing paint was futile:










Grab a tool more suited for the job:










5 minutes later the sheet metal around this stud is clear of paint. Side note. Watch that grey factory wool when using a high speed rotary tool. The wire wheel will suck it in...





































Primary amp ground in an 11" run...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Here's one for Cueball

I use wire ferrules to keep my wire ends from fraying when bolted into an amp.










I was reminded that it is good practice to heat shrink the ferrule to the wire so the two don't separate.










Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

You are suppose to crimp the ferrules before connecting them... 






Ferrule Crimping Tool Kit, Sopoby AWG 28-7 Self-adjustable Ratchet Ferrule Crimper Plier Set with 1200PCS Wire Ferrules Crimp Connectors Wire Terminals - - Amazon.com


Ferrule Crimping Tool Kit, Sopoby AWG 28-7 Self-adjustable Ratchet Ferrule Crimper Plier Set with 1200PCS Wire Ferrules Crimp Connectors Wire Terminals - - Amazon.com



www.amazon.com





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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> You are suppose to crimp the ferrules before connecting them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not in all circumstances. Watch this video from Mark at CAF. He does not recommend crimping power wires due to the type of terminal used.





BTW. I already own that crimping tool 









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Only had about 30 minutes tonight before dark:

First things first. Apply shrink tubing to my wire ferrules to keep Cueball happy







































Now there is the issue of the dang fuse holder cover popping off randomly. I decided to strap it down:





























VELCRO Brand - ONE-WRAP: For Cables, Wires & Cords - 8" x 1/4" Ties, 25 Ct. - Black:Amazon:Office Products


Now to settle the great debate over how to mount my fuse holder:

Industrial strength Velco from ResoNix. The stuff is supposed to survive the Apocalypse. To me it appears to be standard issue Velcro brand. We'll see...










ResoNix Vinyl-Compatible Velcro® – ResoNix Sound Solutions


Heated the adhesive up to a nice warm temperature with my heat gun then stuck and rolled into place:



























FCHO Car Sound Deadening Roller Metal Installation Tool 3 Pcs for Auto Noise Roller Car Sound Deadener Application Installation Tool Rolling Wheel Interior Accessories:Amazon:Home Improvement

All done for the night. All out of daylight...

Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

How come you can't work on the car in your garage?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

BP1Fanatic said:


> How come you can't work on the car in your garage?


I have a tiny little garage that is separate from my house. It's dimly lit. In a pinch I could probably work out there.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Little things tend to take hours to complete. I still needed a good way to secure my sub amp. This would be the last little bit of fabrication I needed before I pull the trigger and complete the system (for now).

A guy came out of nowhere on the Macan Forum and asked why I wasn't using the 6mm stud on the bottom of my battery compartment to help secure my sub amp. What stud? Turns out it was hidden under this plastic cap:










I could make a bracket that bolts onto that sucker:























































The was one. And then there were more:




















Amp fits tight as a glove. It ain't going anywhere:










In retrospect I need to buy some sexier looking hardware and fasteners to give this a polished look. But for now all is good. Need to pre-program my main amp tonight and create a wiring harness for it to interface to the vehicle. But, that's about. it. Almost ready to fire the system up.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I won't go into great detail here. Just finishing my tweeter install.


Zip tie my new speaker wire run to the factory harness so the new wire does not fall back into the dash. Then, cut to proper length.



















Connect tweeter and stuff back into the hole



















Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

The last few days I had been working my butt off.

Pre-wire my amp board. Crimp on smaller ferrules.



















Yep, working at my kitchen table in the rain.










I purchased a mating connector for the main amp harness. I decided to splice into it by using these Amazon butt splices that contain adhesive and solder. If I had to do this again I would prefer to solder wires and cover with heat shrink. I don't trust these splices 100%.



















Here is the vehicle harness mating connector I purchased. This saved me from hacking into the factory harness. But, required more splices.










Bolting in numerous connections with crimped ferrules.










Bundling all of the splices. I wrapped each splice in cloth tape just to be safe. I found a few instances where wires wanted to poke through the plastic heat shrink.










Strapping back un-used connections on the mating harness.










Fully assembled amp board









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Powering up and testing the amp board.


Using this peripheral the amplifier creates its own private wifi network. I can link to the amplifier wireless with my PC or phone and set it up.










A science experiment...










Routing I/O and setting up channel parameters in software. There are 9 channels total:

Front tweeter L plays 3.5KHz and up using 24dB/octave LR crossover
Front tweeter R plays 3.5KHz and up using 24dB/octave LR crossover
Front midrange L plays 300Hz to 3.5KHz using 24dB/octave LR high pass and low pass crossovers
Front midrange R plays 300Hz to 3.5KHz using 24dB/octave LR high pass and low pass crossovers
Front midbass L plays 70Hz to 300Hz using 24dB/octave LR high pass and low pass crossovers
Front midbass R plays 70Hz to 300Hz using 24dB/octave LR high pass and low pass crossovers
Center channel plays 300Hz to 3.5KHz using 24dB/octave LR high pass and low pass crossovers
Differential rear fill mono channel plays 300Hz using a 24dB/octave LR high pass and 12dB/octave LR low pass
Sub channel will play 70Hz and down using a 24dB/octave low pass and 36dB/octave subsonic filter at 15Hz











All my initial settings are subject to change. This was just a good starting point. Many days of measuring and adjusting will determine final settings.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Installing the amp:


Tie the factory harness behind the amp:










Ready to mount:










Bolt amp rack in place:


















Up and running. I was so excited to hear sound from my car again I didn't bother dressing up the wires at this time. Maybe tomorrow. It's pretty cool that I can fit all this gear in the rear quarter panel. Good thing Porsche vehicles use a flared out rear end.









Now I need to re-assemble the rear trim so can re-install the subwoofer.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Routing main power:

Remove this cap over the positive battery terminal:










Bolt the amp power feed to the non-fused started feed on the battery terminal block.




















Re-install the cover. Nice fit.









Secure down the 2 way distribution block. Each feed is protected by a 60A fuse. The sub amp power wire is 8ga automotive grade wire and has a 3ft run. The main amp power feed is also 8ga and has a 5ft run. No problem running smaller gauge wire here since the runs are so short. One of the nice things about having the battery and main power distribution center right next to your amps.





















All covered up. Ready to put the trunk back together.









Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Nice!


Thank you sir. I try. I still have a number of sound treatments to do. And then there is tuning. And then there is drivers swaps followed by more tuning. It never ends  

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Not too much of an update today. I have a lot to learn about the Helix DSP software.


Tidied up the remaining wiring:










Start up the system:










Let's start configuring

















Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Dude, put some lights inside the garage!


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

There are some fantastic videos on youtube on how to use the DSP software..

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)




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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

**


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> I have a tiny little garage that is separate from my house. It's dimly lit. In a pinch I could probably work out there.
> 
> Ge0


Those LED work lights can come in a bit handy for that.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

*HOLD ON A MOMENT... *Some dude named Erin offered to Klippel test my MW182's. Change of plans. I'm going to pull them out and send for test before I put any hours on them. Rather, I will try something slightly different first. But, need to prep them for use.


Added speaker leads and gaskets:





































Now add silicone goop to seal between rings:





































Let these dry over night then mount in car tomorrow. I was going to spend my next 2 days sound deadning my doors anyway. May as well swap mid-bass drivers while I'm at it. Then Erin can have the Dyns for a few weeks to do his mad scientist stuff.

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> *HOLD ON A MOMENT... *Some dude named Erin offered to Klippel test my MW182's. Change of plans. I'm going to pull them out and send for test before I put any hours on them. Rather, I will try something slightly different first. But, need to prep them for use.
> 
> 
> Added speaker leads and gaskets:
> ...


Love it. Thanks for sending them for testing. Will be interesting to see how they compare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> Love it. Thanks for sending them for testing. Will be interesting to see how they compare.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see it as an interesting opportunity to perform an objective and subjective analysis between two drivers I am considering using in my system.

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> I see it as an interesting opportunity to perform an objective and subjective analysis between two drivers I am considering using in my system.
> 
> Ge0


Absolutely. Also just wanted to say that your comparison of the JL 10TW3 and the Sundown SD-4 piqued my interest as I have a 10TW3 so I thought, what the heck, and picked up a 10” SD-4 and just got it in my car with its own custom box today. 

I must say, I’m impressed. I agree with your impression. Both are great subs. Both are accurate, but the SD-4 just has a slightly more noticeable oomph on the very low end that left my ears feeling like they were at a concert today after I got out of the car (in a good way). They seem to dig down very effortlessly - which the JL can do too - it’s a tough comparison. I really think people can’t go wrong with either. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> Absolutely. Also just wanted to say that your comparison of the JL 10TW3 and the Sundown SD-4 piqued my interest as I have a 10TW3 so I thought, what the heck, and picked up a 10” SD-4 and just got it in my car with its own custom box today.
> 
> I must say, I’m impressed. I agree with your impression. Both are great subs. Both are accurate, but the SD-4 just has a slightly more noticeable oomph on the very low end that left my ears feeling like they were at a concert today after I got out of the car (in a good way). They seem to dig down very effortlessly - which the JL can do too - it’s a tough comparison. I really think people can’t go wrong with either.
> 
> ...


Yep. The SD4 does so with less perceived strain / effort. Took me by surprise.

Now I'm investigating adding a 2nd SD4...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I worked on my passenger door today:

Going to install these slim little sexy Italian suckers.










The Porsche doors already had sizable strips of CLD installed on the outer door skin. I went over it with another layer of this guys stuff. Rumor has it, the stuff is kind of good.




























Installed some Butyl rope to fill the remaining gaps in the crash bar.










The only place on the door that resonated heavily with mid-bass impact was this plastic access panel. I didn't have materials on hand to craft a new access panel out of PVC board so just sealedit up with CLD sheets. I noticed a significant reduction in vibration playing bass heavy notes on the door speakers so let it be for now. The doors wiring did vibrate pretty good though.










So, use some sticky back closed cell foam to hold those wires down.



















Oh, and I installed a smaller / lighter mid-bass to check it out. The Dynaudio MW82's are going off for analysis...


















Ge0


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Honestly. I wouldn't trust having a fuse holder held with velcro. Just my .02


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Honestly. I wouldn't trust having a fuse holder held with velcro. Just my .02


I have an entire thread on the subject. Grab a coffee and check it out:









To velcro or not to velcro. That is the question...


I need to mount a fuse holder here: I can't screw it in using self tapping screws since the other side is exposed to the road (think corrosion). One member mentioned velcroing the fuse holder in place. But, I'm not sure if I trust this. If the fuse block breaks free its going to hit...




www.diymobileaudio.com





Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I finished deadening my doors today:

Inner door skin:

Apply 2 layers of CLD inside. Apply generous layer outside to anything that will vibrate:










Secure loose harnesses with closed cell foam:

















































Job complete. No loose rattling harnesses on inner door. Air leaks plugged up. Floppy plastic pieces covered up in CLD sheet to make them more rigid. Good enough for now.









To be continued:

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Door card / trim.

Did the same for left and right. Similar theme. dampen anything that squeaked or rattled.

Peel back factory felt










The factory BOSE grill was sqeaky as heck. Each heat staked rivet was loose. I covered everything I could in butyl rope to dampen vibration. The end result was pure silence when you press on the speaker grill. Far better than the squeaky mess it was.





















Large open flat surfaces like the back of the cup holders resonate like mad when bass is playing. So, I dampened them up too.










Since the midrange is mounted to the door trim panel I wanted to dampen the region surrounding it too. With midrange blaring I am sure the trim resonates along with it. So, tame it down. 










Go throughout the door trim panel and secure loose wires.



















Totally deaden the air space around the midrange and try to isolate it from midbass.



















Put felt back and prepare to re-install:









Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I bought this little LED grabber tool at Harbor Freight that saves a lot of hassle replacing recessed screws. Sorry if the focus is off. I had been working on the car for 12 hours in the rain and my mind was fried.





































Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Finally, I finished my tweeter install. Not sure if this was required but thought it would be a good idea anyway. I placed a bunch of closed cell foam around the tweeter body before putting the grill back on. I figured the foam may dampen any back reflections. We'll see...









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Well, if you are going to go big. You might as well to all out.

My rear fill speakers were mounted to flimsy little plastic panels. Again, I don't want vibration and buzzing noises coloring my sound. So...

Deaden up the panels




























Apply foam to soak up standing waves behind the speaker




































Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

If you don’t mind sharing, what foam is that and where do you get it? 


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> If you don’t mind sharing, what foam is that and where do you get it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


ResoNix. Good stuff. Just make sure he has it in stock before ordering.

Ge0


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ge0 said:


> ResoNix. Good stuff. Just make sure he has it in stock before ordering.
> 
> Ge0


We have everything in stock now and shipping out on a regular basis 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> We have everything in stock now and shipping out on a regular basis
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You heard it from the man right here ^-----^.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Putin' it all back together most of the way.


No D-pillar installed:




























Insert D-Pillars




















These risers are going to be important when implementing enhanced false floor




















These risers are going to be important when implementing enhanced false floor










Temporarily place these trim pieces back so I can replace sub










Set subwoofer baffle back in place for testing









Ge0


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

I hate when I come across threads like this cuz it’s always late and I always have to stay up and read the whole thing!

Finally saw a different beer lol, that dipa was very specific to be the only thing you drank

Beautiful work and thread!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

w35t_fg2 said:


> I hate when I come across threads like this cuz it’s always late and I always have to stay up and read the whole thing!
> 
> Finally saw a different beer lol, that dipa was very specific to be the only thing you drank
> 
> Beautiful work and thread!


LOL! Thank you sir. Boss Tweed is my favorite beer for the moment. However, it's over $4.00 a can. That's more per gram than a damn Brax amplifier . I switch it up to something a little more reasonable once in a while.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

While I had the subwoofer baffle propped up I decided to add foam gasket around its lip just to measure the affects:





























Baffle placed back down:










Taking the easy way out to hide it. Just kidding. I have color matched carpet to glue down when the time is right.










Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I decided to explore my new Helix ACO setup 

I bought this mic stand off Amazon dirt cheap. Two for like $15 from PYRAMID









Universal Adjustable Desktop Microphone Stand - Tabletop Mic Holder Low Profile Mic Stand w/Flexible 8.2'' Gooseneck Mount & U Shape Base - Table Tops, Desk, Podium, Counter Use - Pyle PMKS8X2 (Pair):Amazon:Electronics











I wrapped the base in ResoNix closed cell foam so it would not gouge my interior. Come to think of it I should probably wrap the goose neck stem too:






CCF Decoupler 7 – 7mm CCF with Adhesive Backing – ResoNix Sound Solutions







resonixsoundsolutions.com















This stand Allows me to position the mic in numerous spots near where my by head would sit.










After a few hours of screwing around with setting timing, cross-overs, speaker phase, and parametric EQ this is what I got:









It's a tad bass heavy and needs a slight boost in the upper midrange but is very pleasant to listen to.

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> I decided to explore my new Helix ACO setup
> 
> I bought this mic stand off Amazon dirt cheap. Two for like $15 from PYRAMID
> 
> ...


Looking good, Ge0!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So, I had some time on my hands and some spare cardboard tonight:

My false sub floor baffle works. But, I am not 100% thrilled with this solution. it's a pain to gain access to the spare and battery.

Even with the amp in the way I think the sub will fit in an enclosure under the floor.










Squeeze the sub in there. I can always remove the rubber gasket to reduce mounting diameter by 1/4":










Starting to mock up a cardboard enclosure. I can go further left to add volume if needed. However, I wanted to reserve space for easy access to a set of jumper cables. In a pinch, I could stuff jumper cables inside the spare tire. There is a lot of dead space in there. But a pain to access.










Sub barely fits. Again, removing the thick rubber gasket will reduce overall diameter by 1/4":









Pull out the cardboard mold to trim it up.



























Now, how to measure internal volume with a 3/4" top baffle installed?

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> Looking good, Ge0!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. It's to the point where I am starting to conduct critical listening sessions and making fine adjustments. That quick. i remember spending a month screwing around with my DSP in the past.

Maybe tomorrow I will try Helix Auto-tune.

Ge0


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Packing peanuts?


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Packing peanuts?


Yep. That was exactly what i was planning. Just need to find a 12x12x12 box . Sundown recommends 0.5cu/ft to 0.75cu/ft but I would like to approach closer to 1.0 cu/ft.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So I completed my custom molded fiberglass subwoofer enclosure investigation.

The Sundown Audio box contains approx 0.8cuft of packing peanuts.










I was able to dump about half of them into my cardboard form. That's only 0.4cu/ft. Ughh... I was hoping to get closer to 1.0cu/ft before all was said and done.



















I need to leave about 3/4" to 1" clearance between the cargo floor cover and the top of the sub box. This will give the subs cone room to travel and not hit against the cargo floor cover.



















If I pulled the amp out and used 100% of the space under the false floor for usable box volume I would still only be about 0.6cu/ft. This is not accounting for wall thickness in my fiberglass enclosures lay-up. After adding fiberglass, a top baffle, and accounting for displacement of the sub, the internal volume would fall under 0.5cu/ft. This enclosure would be too small and sound boomy. Low end extension would be sacrificed. Add to that, one of my criteria is that I still be able to fit a pair of jumper cables in here somewhere.










Looks like my baffle idea is still the best solution. Let's put it back together again...

Add wire ferrules for a finishing touch. Yes, I did crimp them. I just didn't show that step here:




























Now I need to:

1.) figure out how to cut deep rabbet grooves (3/8" x 1") around this thing so it will sit flush. 
2.) install a prop rod to hold it up during service instead of relying on my snow scraper. 
3.) carpet the whole thing.
4.) install a lift strap

Ge0


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Ewww 1" rabbet... biggest I've seen is 3/4". Be curious to see what you come up with. Maybe take a 1/4" off the baffle, use a 3/4" rabbet bit and then come back with some 1/4" screen trim to get back to the right dimensions? Just a thought.


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Are you sound deadening the tub/spare tire area?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> Are you sound deadening the tub/spare tire area?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have no plans to. Why would I go through the time and expense?

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

"Add wire ferrules for a finishing touch. Yes, I did crimp them. I just didn't show that step here:"

I trust your judgement now.

I still prefer them crimped but research shows it works both ways. ( unless your wire is too small and the set-screw pierces the fertile).

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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I can't tell from the picture but is there any free space under the spare tire to maybe relocate the jack or the kit on the other side of the tire. If so, maybe you could extend the box around a little more to gain a little more space.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

bigbubba said:


> I can't tell from the picture but is there any free space under the spare tire to maybe relocate the jack or the kit on the other side of the tire. If so, maybe you could extend the box around a little more to gain a little more space.


Thanks for the suggestion. I already thought about this. The jack on the left side no. It's physically too large to fit inside the spare tire. The tire iron on the the right side yes. But, I would not be gaining enough volume by consuming that space.

Ge0


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## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

Can you raise the cover height any further?

Do you really need the spare wheel?! Most cars in Europe mostly come with tyre foam and no spare fitted. 


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> I have no plans to. Why would I go through the time and expense?
> 
> Ge0


I was wondering if not doing so would result in rattles and other unwanted renounces


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

SiW80 said:


> Can you raise the cover height any further?


This is coming in part 2 of my cargo area renovation. I was hoping part 2 would come this fall or next spring. But, I may just suck it up and start it now. I recon I can lift the entire floor up by 2" to 3".



























My current factory floor sits on the metal risers shown by the yellow arrows. Well, what if I placed risers on top of risers? As is, the floor is recessed over 3" below the vehicles bumper. I'm just going to give it a lift.

Doing this will allow me to build the larger box I need. Also, my sub amp is physically larger and more powerful than what I need. Going to a smaller amp will give me back more space. Heck, I may be able to fit a 12" driver instead.



SiW80 said:


> Do you really need the spare wheel?! Most cars in Europe mostly come with tyre foam and no spare fitted.


No chance. This is my daily driver. The roads are in terrible condition where I live. That and there can be a lot of road debris. I've had to change too many flat tires in the past. I'm not going to risk going without a spare to get louder bass. That's just the way that it is .


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> I was wondering if not doing so would result in rattles and other unwanted renounces


Sorry, I should have clarified. It's pretty dead / solid down there as is. No surfaces resonate when you tap them. I treated the one or two surfaces that I thought might be an issue. Adding any more material would not gain me further benefit. I think I pointed that out earlier in ,my build log.

Ge0


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified. It's pretty dead / solid down there as is. No surfaces resonate when you tap them. I treated the one or two surfaces that I thought might be an issue. Adding any more material would not gain me further benefit. I think I pointed that out earlier in ,my build log.
> 
> Ge0


Makes sense! . You inspire me...need to get to work on my Panamera...been really enjoying the system in the Durango even though I still need a proper tune.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> Makes sense! . You inspire me...need to get to work on my Panamera...been really enjoying the system in the Durango even though I still need a proper tune.


You know. I did a 2nd gen Durango. It took me 2 years. Full build log is on this site. Just search "Durango simple"

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So, I got a few more toys in earlier this week. Just in case I decide to run speakers in my rear doors.



























Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. Some guy was saying my job at creating a custom fiberglass enclosure for my subwoofer would be easier if I could move my subwoofer amp. I agree with him. But, had no where to move the big amp. So, I shrank it. Well, kind of. The new amp doesn't arrive until Monday but I can always plan.





































The amp will fit down in the cubby hole for the battery. I can build the sub enclosure I want. Time to run up to Auto Zone and get some fiberglass supplies! 

Just kidding Rabbit, I wouldn't actually do that













































Look for an amp install post Monday or Tuesday night...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

It's time to raise the bar. Well, floor in this instance...

All great ideas start here:










What if???



















































































To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

But what do we do with these blocks?

Glue them together









Get some big screws...









Set blocks in place


















Start replacing trim with longer screws:




































Lift the cargo floor up 1-1/2". Should provide enough clearance for my hidden sub-floor subwoofer enclosure.









The only potential downside is the gap that will be left between the cargo lid cover and the rear decorative trim. However, I look at this as an upside. It will vent the pressure created by the subwoofer in the floor underneath and may help prevent rattles.









Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Sub box investigation part II

As it stands my sub box would be 0.4cu/ft. That's too small. But wait. I now have additional height and space a big amp used to consume.










I gained pretty good depth by raising the cargo floor. But, I still need to leave room for 1" of subwoofer excursion.



















I can increase the lip 1/2" here when accouting for a 3/4" subwoofer baffle.









I can raise the back side 1-3/4" to 2-1/2" if need be.










Keep building out the shell tomorrow...










Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. Now for the moment of truth. We can't shove 10 pounds of Sh!t into a 5 pound bag. How about a 9 pound bag???

Today's inspiration and thought provoking juice:










Time to get out old crusty. This is a test mule that I have used and abused for over 20 years. I will be without a sub in my Macan until I can build a custom fiberglass enclosure so I will put it to use. This may take a week or two. It is remarkable how much bass this single 4 ohm subwoofer puts out with a mere 400W amp on it. Might I say the amount of bass it produces is excessive?



















I finished adjusting the height and X/Y size of the sub enclosure mock up.




























Now for the time of truth. Can I pack 1cu/ft of packing peanuts into this odd form enclosure shape?




























Yep. And even a little room to spare. Finally the custom sub enclosure will work...










Raising the floor worked with minimal sacrifice. Now I need to order fiberglass supplies. See you in a week or so...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Just confirming new sub amp fitment.

Fresh out of the box










Man these things attract finger prints easy.









I am sacrificing some power. About 200W to be exact. But, I was only using 1/3rd of the available gain for the G One. I'm using 2/3rd of available gain for the M One. But, just look at the difference in size. Holy cow!!!










Looks like I'll be able to shave down the size of the amp rack like I wanted...



















I lost day light rather quickly last night but still wanted to get this sucker installed.










Beautiful. Fits like a glove. I need to cut down the amp board and clean the wiring up a little but that's about it.










Ge0


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Why oh why is the Helix stuff so damn sexy!? That's a huge space saving there. 

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

THX0849 said:


> Why oh why is the Helix stuff so damn sexy!? That's a huge space saving there.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I just bought into it for the DSP. Then, I had the urge to buy a matching sub amp...

Ge0


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Just refinished the DSP 2 I just got, had a few scuffs. Think it came out pretty good. Would be awesome to have a matching "system" with their stuff but budget doesn't stretch that far. LOL









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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Dam I could get stuck for a couple hours reading this...this is some full on shizzle, I like it! I am mid build myself though (and really need to get my build finished so I can move on to other things) so this comment will at least bookmark it for a later read...
Most excellent  
Peace


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

captainbuff said:


> Dam I could get stuck for a couple hours reading this...this is some full on shizzle, I like it! I am mid build myself though (and really need to get my build finished so I can move on to other things) so this comment will at least bookmark it for a later read...
> Most excellent
> Peace


It's considered rude not to read al the way through once invited 

Ge0


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> It's considered rude not to read al the way through once invited
> 
> Ge0


I will not for a second claim to be the politest guy around...I am working on it though  
However the only thing that could trump reading through other peoples mad builds is finishing my own and updating my build log...my apologies for the lack of tact and poor manners 
Peace


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

captainbuff said:


> I will not for a second claim to be the politest guy around...I am working on it though
> However the only thing that could trump reading through other peoples mad builds is finishing my own and updating my build log...my apologies for the lack of tact and poor manners
> Peace


Just busting your chops. All is good. Get your sh1t done

Sneak peek









Ge0


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> Just busting your chops. All is good. Get your sh1t done
> 
> Sneak peek
> View attachment 278187
> ...


That is some bad ass skill...


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

captainbuff said:


> That is some bad ass skill...


It figures. Fiberglass takes optimal weather conditions to cure properly. I started the job yesterday afternoon. Temps were in the high 70's (26C) which is optimal. However, overnight temps dropped to 65F (18C) and rain. Not so good to cure wet resin. Now it may take a day or two before I can continue.

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> Just busting your chops. All is good. Get your sh1t done
> 
> Sneak peek
> View attachment 278187
> ...


Is that the cardboard with fiberglass on it? I’ve never worked with glass before... cool stuff


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Does the glass just pop right off the cardboard mold? Is there something that prevents it from sticking?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> Does the glass just pop right off the cardboard mold? Is there something that prevents it from sticking?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's Baltic Birch with an MDF baffle. The resin soaks into it. The Birch shell will become part of the enclosure.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> It's Baltic Birch with an MDF baffle. The resin soaks into it. The Birch shell will become part of the enclosure.
> View attachment 278191


Someone’s been busy! I have a love hate with fiberglass! What’s the opening for on top? Are you using enough hardener with the resin?

Here’s some of my weekend fiberglass work:


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> It's Baltic Birch with an MDF baffle. The resin soaks into it. The Birch shell will become part of the enclosure.
> View attachment 278191


Holy sh$t! That’s awesome. So is the idea that the fiberglass helps seal up the birch enclosure or is it the birch helps provide structure to the fiberglass enclosure?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Someone’s been busy! I have a love hate with fiberglass! What’s the opening for on top? Are you using enough hardener with the resin?
> 
> Here’s some of my weekend fiberglass work:
> View attachment 278207


The opening on the top is so I can stack a few MDF rings on it in a stack format to increase air volume a little. The top of the stack will be solid.

I added the exact amount of resin the manufacture called for plus a little extra. The problem is I did the layup in the early evening at 78 degrees and then it dropped to 65 over night and stayed there all day. This was not in the Accuweather forecast at the time. The resin takes longer to harden in cooler temps.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauian said:


> Holy sh$t! That’s awesome. So is the idea that the fiberglass helps seal up the birch enclosure or is it the birch helps provide structure to the fiberglass enclosure?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have an odd shape to build a sub enclosure in my cars sub floor cargo area. I couldn't just put a tarp down and glass in a shell like folks typically do. I decided to create a cardboard mock-up to see what would fit. However, I could not fiberglass over a flimsy cardboard mock-up. So, I replicated the cardboard form in Birch to create a solid structure to build off of. Then I thought instead of fiber-glassing INSIDE the birch shell, make the shell part of the enclosure. It is rigid enough to hold form while fiber-glassing. So, let the show begin.

The glass on the outside is just to add finish and initial structure. Most of the strength will come from adding layers to the inside.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. Where did I leave off? Oh yeah. Shrinking my amp board and remounting it.


I have a little empty space left now.










Mark the cut line at the edge of the amp










Pull off the mounting hardware so I can make the cut










There ya go










The amp was still wired into the car. Just need to screw it to the board.










Done...










The amp now sits below the battery cavity line. Now on to making my enclosure...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So, I have this cardboard mock-up of what size sub enclosure will fit in my car. But, what do I do with it? I can't fiberglass over it. It would be too weak and floppy. Hmmm... I have an idea...











A thick MDF baffle










What is he doing with this???










A perfect day. Cold beer and fresh Baltic Birch









Whats this shenanigans?




























Building a box inside a box???










Started raining and got dark. Move operations inside.









Phase 1 complete.









To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Day 2


Glue in re-enforcements in corners










Plan out the top baffle



















Cut cut cut




























I need to trace this outline but did not have any tracing paper



















Transfer outline to next shape.










Cut the next stack in the baffle










To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Day 2.5


Oh boy! I fits like a glove in my subfloor










Finish up the stack




















Now attach the top baffle. More rain and lost daylight. Move operations indoors again




























After all this work the [email protected] subwoofer better fit...










WOW! I could have went with a deeper 10" sub. But, I'm happy with my SD4 for now.










Refueled. Time for sanding.










All done sanding. Now what???









To be continued...

Ge0


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

I feel like I’m cheating on a test cause I know what’s next... 


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

@Ge0 with all that wasted depth maybe a JL 10w6?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

oekundar said:


> I feel like I’m cheating on a test cause I know what’s next...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL! I did let the cat out of the bag didn't I?

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

DaveG said:


> @Ge0 with all that wasted depth maybe a JL 10w6?


I will certainly consider other subs. However, the 10W6 is about an inch too deep. That and its price to performance ratio is rather low. Let's see what the SD4 can do 1st. It's an impressive sub 

Ge0


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

No space for two then?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Turb0Yoda said:


> No space for two then?


Maybe next spring...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have been in such a rush to get this sub enclosure done before cold weather sets in. I haven't had time to post. Anyway, nearing the end of this fabrication job. I sure hope this thing kicks as much a$$ as I designed it to.

Get supplies ready:









OK. Let's fiberglass the wooden shell with an outer layer of cloth that will wrap around it's strange contours. This is a twill cloth purchased from US Composites:









Staple it into place so it doesn't move around so much while applying resin:




























Start dabbing in the resin




































It took an hour and 32oz of resin to completely cover the first layer of this box. Now it's time to dry...

No, there is no problems with my butt. I learned this trick from Glassman a few years ago. Apply it liberally to your arms to close up pores. That way fibers don't get in. Also, apply it to your hands to make taking latex gloves on and off easy.










To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now for some cleanup work now that the resin has dried.




















This sucker came in real handy when cleaning up the edges:










Sand down sharp edges so I can handle the enclosure without getting pricked or cut.










Glue in one last cross brace to add strength.










Now prepare to glass the inside of the enclosure. Here I chose a bi-axial material from US composites. This is a cloth with mat fibers sewn into it.










Cut up some workable sizes in advance so you don't need to screw with cutting while your hands are all sticky and gooey from resin.










I found using this glass dish to be priceless. Lay a piece of material in, fully saturate it, then lay it on your work piece. Trust me. This is MUCH better than trying to wet the cloth out inside the work piece. You will add a little more resin onto the cloth once you lay it in. But, since it is already saturated you don't need to work as hard. Make sure you are wearing rubber gloves. Working the cloth in place by hand is a must to get it to lay flat. Use your brush to tamp out any air bubbles.










First 16oz of resin laid



















To be continued...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

More glassing and building up 4 layers:















































All done laying fiberglass inside. Now take the cordless edge sander to knock down sharp edges inside the enclosure:










I decided to add Bondo Glass (short hair fibers) to the inside corners of the enclosure where the baffle meets the box. Just to further strengthen the bond. I also placed Bondo Glass over sections inside the enclosure where I cut out air bubbles and left pockets in the material.




























I also added some dowel rods while I was at it to strengthen the baffle.









To be continued...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now time to apply a finish to the outside to make it look nice and smooth.

I decided to use Evercoat body fillers because they are supposed to be far easier to sand than good old Bondo. I started with a quart of Rage at first but soon ran out. So then I bought a gallon of Rage Ultra.

NOTE: Make sure you knead and squeeze the hardener tube prior to use. Otherwise when you go to apply hardener a bunch of liquid will ooze out. You need cream not liquid. I found this out the hard way. My first layer took 2 days to dry vs. 20 minutes.

Sand Sand sand.


















Applying the first batch:










Sanded down the first pass. However, there are some places that need more material. A 2nd coat will be needed.










The ultra goes on thicker than the Rage. However, it is self leveling to a degree which will make sanding easier.










Sanding down the 2nd coat really made the enclosure take shape and feel smooth. Note, I sanded the corners by hand to make sure my power sander did not remove too much material:










I forgot to take a photo. But, I glued the top step baffle on after the first sanding pass. I then feathered it in on the second body filler application.




























I could have called it quits here. But, there were a few voids that were bothering me. So, one simple 3rd pass of filler. It was getting dark and cold. So, I will need to wait until tomorrow morning to sand this and finish it off.










Next up. Apply glazing putty to any remaining pin holes then prime and paint.

To be continued...

Ge0


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Did you get the MW182's back from Erin?

I see he has done tests on them: Dyn Audio MW182 10-Inch Woofer Review
He has also tested the W800-NEO: Audio Development W800NEO Drive Unit Review

Wondering what your impressions are, regarding these two drivers, having had them both installed in your doors.
Do you have a preference of one over the other? Was either one noticabley better?


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> Did you get the MW182's back from Erin?
> 
> I see he has done tests on them: Dyn Audio MW182 10-Inch Woofer Review
> He has also tested the W800-NEO: Audio Development W800NEO Drive Unit Review
> ...


I did get my MW182's back from Erin and re-installed last week. I've been so focused on finishing this sub enclosure that I have not taken the time to do an "apples to apples" comparison.

The first thing I noticed is that I could cross the MW182's down to 60Hz and they could take that without strain at full power. OOOOOhhhh to they hammer out that kick drum. Now, to be fair I did not seriously listen to the AD W800Neo's below 80Hz.

I will do a better comparison once I have my sub installed and tuned. I love the AD W800Neo's but have a sneaking suspicion the MW182's are going to spank them...

Ge0


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I current run my W800-NEO's at 60hz, but have had them down to 40hz (and they were fine there too... just needed a 42db crossover slope).
But I have a feeling those MW182's will still do a better job in the overall midbass department.

I've been considering getting a Porsche... that's why I'm asking.
I'm looking at a 911, but I don't want a subwoofer. Just want to do a 3-way stage. So, looking for a good midbass.
The 911 is a loud car to start with, so it would not be an SQ vehicle... but the stock Bose is crap. so is the Burmester.

I used to have an Audi SQ5... and your Macan build brings back memories. The Audi is put together almost exactly the same.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> I current run my W800-NEO's at 60hz, but have had them down to 40hz (and they were fine there too... just needed a 42db crossover slope).
> But I have a feeling those MW182's will still do a better job in the overall midbass department.
> 
> I've been considering getting a Porsche... that's why I'm asking.
> ...


I like the AD W800Neo's since they are super light and have a nice light / stiff cone. It's going to be tough.

I'm considering a 911 Carrera in the next couple of years. I've wanted one since I was a kid. I was thinking the same thing for the most part. Although, I've seen some good examples of adding a subwoofer in the car, soooo...

Porsche's with the Bose system can fit a 10" driver in the door. You probably wouldn't need a subwoofer if you weren't going for high SPL.

My Macan shares the base platform with the Q5. There are a lot of common parts. However, engine and suspension are entirely different. This thing gets down when I want tit to .

Ge0


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I love the Macan.
My Audi was the SQ5, which shares the same 3.0 litre engine as the Macan S. Except Audi used a supercharger, and Porsche uses a turbo.
The real advantage to the Macan is the PDK transmission. It kills the Audi tranny, and makes the vehicle perform the way it's supposed to.
Plus the Macan styling is much cooler... and Porsche _fin & finish_ is second to none.

I'm considering a 911 Turbo S (new 992 when it comes out). But that will be a couple years down the road.
The 911 has a relatively small cabin. So, I'm thinking a decent set of 8's in the doors, plus a mid and tweeter, might do the job.
I'm a big Dynaudio fan, so I'd really like to do an MW182, Esotar 430, and an MW102. But I may (probably will) do a full Utopia M setup.
As mentioned; it's also a wicked loud car (inside the cabin) anyways... so I am not aiming to make it any kind of SQ vehicle.
Just want something better than the crappy Bose system...

Anyways, don't want to hijack your build log... keep posting, this is a good read!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> I love the Macan.
> My Audi was the SQ5, which shares the same 3.0 litre engine as the Macan S. Except Audi used a supercharger, and Porsche uses a turbo.
> The real advantage to the Macan is the PDK transmission. It kills the Audi tranny, and makes the vehicle perform the way it's supposed to.
> Plus the Macan styling is much cooler... and Porsche _fin & finish_ is second to none.
> ...


Don't worry man. You're not hi-jacking. Just talking shop 

Ge0


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

jimmydee said:


> I love the Macan.
> My Audi was the SQ5, which shares the same 3.0 litre engine as the Macan S. Except Audi used a supercharger, and Porsche uses a turbo.
> The real advantage to the Macan is the PDK transmission. It kills the Audi tranny, and makes the vehicle perform the way it's supposed to.
> Plus the Macan styling is much cooler... and Porsche _fin & finish_ is second to none.
> ...


Have you driven the turbo S yet? It’s not as loud as you might think. Loud compared to an SQ5 yes but in comparison my Cayman is much louder in the car with the engine right behind your head and intake right behind your ear if the windows are down. 

For my car I didn’t try to go big in the door Just because I knew I would be doing a sub but you can definitely get a solid 8 in there and maybe 10 if depth permits. The biggest problem for me was the tweeters but not sure the 911 has the same issue. The OEM tweeter mounts were very small so the MW102 had no chance of fitting. Had to do custom pods to get more room and also remain the tweeters so they are not pointed straight up at the windshield.


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> I love the Macan.
> My Audi was the SQ5, which shares the same 3.0 litre engine as the Macan S. Except Audi used a supercharger, and Porsche uses a turbo.
> The real advantage to the Macan is the PDK transmission. It kills the Audi tranny, and makes the vehicle perform the way it's supposed to.
> Plus the Macan styling is much cooler... and Porsche _fin & finish_ is second to none.
> ...


Speaking of E430's. I am currently trying to hunt down 3 of them for my front stage. They come up for sale once in a while. Do you have any you're currently not using ?

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> Have you driven the turbo S yet? It’s not as loud as you might think. Loud compared to an SQ5 yes but in comparison my Cayman is much louder in the car with the engine right behind your head and intake right behind your ear if the windows are down.
> 
> For my car I didn’t try to go big in the door Just because I knew I would be doing a sub but you can definitely get a solid 8 in there and maybe 10 if depth permits. The biggest problem for me was the tweeters but not sure the 911 has the same issue. The OEM tweeter mounts were very small so the MW102 had no chance of fitting. Had to do custom pods to get more room and also remain the tweeters so they are not pointed straight up at the windshield.


Doesn't the Cayman have the typical Bose Done or Burmester AMT tweeter mount? If so, you can fit a MD102.

Ge0


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

HIS4 said:


> Have you driven the turbo S yet? It’s not as loud as you might think.


I've driven the 991 version of the Turbo S (plenty of times). Enough to know that it is not a quiet vehicle... at least not the way I drive it. Besides, I really enjoy the sound of the engine too. The turbo intakes right behind you sound like big vacuum cleaners!

My point is that; I'm not trying to make the 911 into an SQ car... at all. I have a BMW X6-M for that. I just want something in there, that is better than the crappy stock Bose system.

As for the tweeters; I was thinking something like this:


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> Doesn't the Cayman have the typical Bose Done or Burmester AMT tweeter mount? If so, you can fit a MD102.
> 
> Ge0


I don’t know if it’s the same size but it looks different than the 911 mount. When I pulled the OEM tweeter It looked really small and I was trying to mount Scan Be tweet so I had no chance


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> I've driven the 991 version of the Turbo S (plenty of times). Enough to know that it is not a quiet vehicle... at least not the way I drive it. Besides, I really enjoy the sound of the engine too. The turbo intakes right behind you sound like big vacuum cleaners!
> 
> My point is that; I'm not trying to make the 911 into an SQ car... at all. I have a BMW X6-M for that. I just want something in there, that is better than the crappy stock Bose system.
> 
> As for the tweeters; I was thinking something like this:


You can make your own cheaper. The model for the 3D print is freely available. Just source your own tweeters and find someone to print the housings for you.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> I don’t know if it’s the same size but it looks different than the 911 mount. When I pulled the OEM tweeter It looked really small and I was trying to mount Scan Be tweet so I had no chance


The tweet was probably a 38mm dome which is the standard and Bose size. The Scan Be tweet is 48mm. The question is does your car have the snap out bracket to hold a Burmester AMT tweeter. I would be surprised if it did not.

Ge0


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> The tweet was probably a 38mm dome which is the standard and Bose size. The Scan Be tweet is 48mm. The question is does your car have the snap out bracket to hold a Burmester AMT tweeter. I would be surprised if it did not.
> 
> Ge0


You're right it was about 38mm but it is not a removable bracket. The mount is part of the A/C vent and the tweet is held in with a spring clip. I ended up buying replacement A/C vents to use to form the new pods so I could keep the original ones if I needed to go back.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Labor of love


For the life of me I can't figure out why I am applying body filler to a sub enclosure that will be hidden under the floor of my vehicle. I don't NEED to be perfect here:










Sanding sanding sanding sanding. Re-apply body filler. Sanding sanding... Well, you get the point.










Grab an energy drink. Time to lay down some primer:




























Primer complete. Time to lay down the paint. This stuff is weird. It goes on and then gets darker as it dries:










Painting all done:










Yep, still fits


















About 1/2" clearance between hatch cover and the top most part of the speaker baffle:










Just about 1-1/4" clearance between subwoofer cone and cargo area hatch cover. That should be enough space for the Sundown Audio SD4 to pound out the bass:









To be continued:

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Now lets finish this sucker up.

Add adhesive backed closed cell foam to the exterior of the box so it does not rattle and vibrate in the trunk:

CCF Decoupler 7 – 7mm CCF with Adhesive Backing – ResoNix Sound Solutions






























Now add a carrying strap for when I need to remove the sub:


















I double the strap material over itself so it could be stronger with a screw driven through it:




























Use the proper size center punch to mark screw hole locations:



















To be continued:

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Where was I?

Oh yeah, drilling big holes in sh!t.










Seal up the hole with silicon:










Seal the other side so wire is not vibrating against sharp fiberglass edges:










Now stuff the box lightly with some polyfill:



















Wire up the sub. I used XT60 disconnects here because I might want to try a few different subs. This is the fast way to switch them out:










Use wire ferrules to make connection with the push terminals:










And there we go:



























Just a few minor adjustments in fitment and we should be golden.

BTW: I ran a quick listening test before my sons baseball game tonight. Dang this little sub hammers.

Ge0


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> Where was I?
> 
> Oh yeah, drilling big holes in sh!t.
> 
> ...


Very nice. Curious if that Sundown will bounce that floor cover up and down.

BTW not sure if you’ve used that spare yet but blowing it up to full size is pretty cool. Just had to do it on the wife’s Cayenne.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> Very nice. Curious if that Sundown will bounce that floor cover up and down.
> 
> BTW not sure if you’ve used that spare yet but blowing it up to full size is pretty cool. Just had to do it on the wife’s Cayenne.


No, there is enough venting and decoupling with CCF where the sub does not bounce the floor cover around at all. As a matter of fact I hear no vibration sounds what so ever . This has me rather pleased.

As far as the spare. No, I have not had to use it yet. It is just a safety net like car insurance.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

P.S. I can fit a 12". More later...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Problem. My cargo lid does not close all the way because of this plastic handle that hits the top of the sub box when closed:










This leaves about a 1/4" gap when the hatch lid is closed. I could either modify the handle, or...










Raise the floor another 1/2"




























Nothing like making a mess with your router outside just as the sun is setting.










Drill pilot holes and re-install in vehicle (refer to my earlier post to see how I installed these).




















I now have an additional 2" of clearance under the cargo floor. I can fit a deeper sub if I want.










Cargo hatch now sits flat. The handle does not touch the sub enclosure any more. I even vacuumed out the truck for this photo .









Ge0


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Your install is so freaking sweet! I love the stockish looks. 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

@Ge0 this looks awesome! I love the stealthy installs


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks guys. My main intention is to maintain use of my cargo hatch. Another must was to retain the spare tire. Too many flats in my life time with Michigan pot holes. I may end up doing an a-pillar, sail panel, and/or kick pod build. But, that won't be until next spring. That will distract from the stealth look slightly but not too much if executed right.

I'll try to eek out more performance from stock locations for now. Bit, I just don't feel I'll be able to go to the next stage of audio bliss with things the way they are. 

The good news is I definitely have enough bass. For now. A friend has me thinking. With 2" of clearance above the spare tire I could probably fit a shallow 15 inside the spare tire if I flipped it upside down 🤔. 

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

So now that most of my install work is done...





















__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3313537712096672



Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> Did you get the MW182's back from Erin?
> 
> I see he has done tests on them: Dyn Audio MW182 10-Inch Woofer Review
> He has also tested the W800-NEO: Audio Development W800NEO Drive Unit Review
> ...


All I can say after one week evaluating the MW182's is I have a death grip on them. I love these for midbass duties. They make the hairs on my legs tingle as they pound out lower notes without any stress what so ever.

I had the AD W800Neo's installed for 2 weeks. Although they did nothing wrong (an excellent midbass BTW) they did nothing to really impress me like the MW182's. But then I really didn't push their limits...

Ughh. What to do? Stay content with what I have? Or tear my doors apart again to really push the W800Neo's?

What's your vote DIYMA?

Ge0


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

I say tear the door apart and try to do as close to an apples to apples comparison as possible. You have both speakers. It would be a shame not to evaluate each equally. I’ve been happy as hell with speakers and then changed them and then realized what I was missing. (Not sure this will happen, but just saying)

You could do some measurements with each speaker and post them to show us how they measure too. Would be interesting to see and to hear your thoughts on how they sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

This build makes me want to go explore if there is a similar space in my wife’s Cayenne but I don’t think she would want me tearing up her car


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> This build makes me want to go explore if there is a similar space in my wife’s Cayenne but I don’t think she would want me tearing up her car


Send her on vacation. What she doesn't know won't hurt her 

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OK. I have a few more changes to make to my system before the winter freeze. Here is #1.

I absolutely love my Scanspeak D2904/60000 tweeters. But, they are 15 years old. I want to see how a current generation pair of D2004/602000's compare.




























For thought and inspiration:










Also installing tweeter protection capacitors. 80uF non-polar audio grade electrolytic:









I was glad to see the tweeters dropped right into the factory spring clip retention system. I was sure I was going to make modifications. As it turns out no .










The protective grill on the tweeter extends about 10mm above the tweeters dome. There was a 5mm interference fit between the dome and the factory grill. So, pop the tweeter grill off with a set of needle nose pliers. The grills come off with very little force applied. The tweeter only needs 1mm clearance. A 4mm gap still exists.










Note the factory grill was warped due to an interference fit with the old D2904's. I am hoping it will flatten out again now that there is no longer a tweeter grill pressing against it.



























Ge0


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Very nice. Didn’t realize you could pop the grills off


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> Very nice. Didn’t realize you could pop the grills off


I feel like an idiot. I spent 2 nights searching the topic. I did not want to ruin my new tweeters. 

In the end the grills come right off with very little force. They set right back on if you need. I think they may use the speakers magnetic path to hold them in. 

So, a lot of concern over nothing. I really wish ScanSpeak would publish something about this.

Ge0


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Those are gorgeous! Maybe warming up the grilles a little with a heat gun and gently flattening them out would help. In my experience once warped they usually stay that way unless "influenced".


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Looks from the pictures like those grills were set in a small amount of adhesive. I can see the glue (looks like glue) where the grill contacted the plastic body of the tweeter.


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## Rsrguy3 (Sep 22, 2020)

boomeh said:


> You may want to save the money you’re going to spend on that system for the inevitable repairs to that Porsche that are coming.


Porsche? That, is a folksvagen... top of the line for sure, but still a vw. This is a Porsche..... from the olden days when the family still owned and ran the company, way before Piech botched the takeover attempt. Absolutely sick system and flawlessly executed craftsmanship! I wish my project had the solid acoustics of yours!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Dad had a '59 356 1500cc when he was younger. Loved listening to his stories about it. Since then a huge fan. 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Rsrguy3 said:


> Porsche? That, is a folksvagen... top of the line for sure, but still a vw. This is a Porsche..... from the olden days when the family still owned and ran the company, way before Piech botched the takeover attempt. Absolutely sick system and flawlessly executed craftsmanship! I wish my project had the solid acoustics of yours!
> View attachment 280733


That is beautiful! I’d love to have one. I saw this one on a highway in Virginia - looks to be a similar vintage. 


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Rsrguy3 (Sep 22, 2020)

Rsrguy3 said:


> View attachment 280729
> 
> 
> Porsche? That, is a folksvagen... top of the line for sure, but still a vw. This is a Porsche..... from the olden days when the family still owned and ran the company, way before Piech botched the takeover attempt.
> View attachment 280729


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## Rsrguy3 (Sep 22, 2020)

Why thank you, ive been puttering around with it for almost 20 years now. All joking aside the OP's P-car is definitely a more comfortable & dependable ride, especially with the revised audio, I'd trade him in a heart beat!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Thank you for the complements. 

Are you guys done clogging up my build log???

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh boy. I have a lot of new toys coming in.

Dynaudio stuff. Esotan MT171 vs. MD102




























Some MF171 midranges to compare to my ScanSpeak 10F



















And oh [email protected]! What's this?



















It's going to be a busy month...

Ge0


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

^LOL, those Utopias look strangely familiar. Enjoy.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> ^LOL, those Utopias look strangely familiar. Enjoy.


You see I protected your identity .

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I was hoping "my guy" could score me a set of E430's to throw into this mix. However, those appear to be on back order.

Ge0


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Really curious what you think of the Esotans


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> Really curious what you think of the Esotans


I'll have them installed by Saturday the 24th I hope


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

nice new toys, please report back your findings


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## sobe_death (Jul 31, 2008)

This is such a cool build, and makes me reconsider putting a 10" under the floor of my Touareg instead of the corner pocket. Before you lifted the floor, how well was the cone able to vent to the cabin? Did you ever listen to the SD3-10 to compare with the SD4?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

sobe_death said:


> This is such a cool build, and makes me reconsider putting a 10" under the floor of my Touareg instead of the corner pocket. Before you lifted the floor, how well was the cone able to vent to the cabin? Did you ever listen to the SD3-10 to compare with the SD4?


Thank you for the complements.

To be honest I really don't know how well the sub would vent without raising the floor. I chose a model with a 25mm Xmech. I needed all the clearance I can get. So, I raised the floor 1.5" to give the cone 1" available for cone travel plus 1/2" air clearance. Soon after I needed to raise the floor another 1/2" due to the hatch handle. But, unless you really looked close ypu would never know it.

I don't know much about your Volkswagen. If it has a similar configuration then you may be OK with the sub under a non-raised floor. Two other users on this forum (Santirx and Phroenips) also have Macans and did not raise their floor to fit a sub. Both of them seem to like their setup.

The SD3 was discontinued at the time I bought My SD4. Therefore, I never tried one. In addition, given the space I have I'm not sure I can accommodate the SD3's magnet structure.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

If your Touareg is a TDI you have the DEF tank there.









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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> If your Touareg is a TDI you have the DEF tank there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can't really move that tank now can you ?

Take a photo of the rest of the trunk. Lets see what you have available.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Hmm... Here is something interesting. I don't know anyone who has reviewed these yet. 

These are not the MK1 listed for blow out sale on Woofers Etc. These are proper MK2 only available through authorized dealer networks. My dealer is pretty cool. More on that later. Oh, and there is an old school MD102 tweeter set added into the mix for comparison. I wanted to also try E430's but they are on a pretty long back order. Perhaps more on those this spring. For the time being let's focus on the Esotan MK2 offering. After unboxing I am impressed with build quality...




























































































I have a full set of Focal Utopia drivers in. However, I promised I would try these out first. So, VAMANOS!!! Let's go!!!\

Ge0


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## Sam Spade (Mar 16, 2020)

Your false floor idea sounds like a practical solution. 
My false floor works great. And it has support struts so i can put heavy loads on it, throw the golf clubs in etc


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

You have me real confused...

Ge0


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## Sam Spade (Mar 16, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> You have me real confused...
> 
> Ge0


Confused? Abou the lame joke or pics?


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## Sam Spade (Mar 16, 2020)

So my false floor is unbelievable. It is unattached and sits there under its own weight and has velcro tabs on so i can lift up the back and straps to reveal it. Plus the floor just lits out for better acces

I just need to reorganise it so i can fit two C fours and one more hertx HP amp making 4 😄. Oh and the subs. But the xovers are coming out.


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Ge0 said:


> Can't really move that tank now can you ?
> 
> Take a photo of the rest of the trunk. Lets see what you have available.
> 
> Ge0


Hopefully I will be able to get to it this weekend...


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

Crude but effective for a quick release on the sub.

Where the blue shop towels are I hope to eventually fiberglass( as soon as I learn!!) an in wall enclosure.

And of course please excuse ALL of the wiring as it it temporary.



























































Sent using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> Crude but effective for a quick release on the sub.
> 
> Where the blue shop towels are I hope to eventually fiberglass( as soon as I learn!!) an in wall enclosure.
> 
> ...


That little cubby hole looks like a perfect place for a sub. I may be tempted to buy a used trim panel that I could cut and alter to make your enclosure. You'll need a way to secure it to the car.

Ge0


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## Troystg (Sep 12, 2010)

I have been looking for a totalled Touareg just for that panel. But none in a 6 hr radius of me. And too bulky to ship. 

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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Troystg said:


> I have been looking for a totalled Touareg just for that panel. But none in a 6 hr radius of me. And too bulky to ship.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


It seems wrong to wish someone crashes their Touareg in the near future. But...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

The twins are in... What is he going to do with two sets of 3.5WM's???



















'




































Ge0


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## Sam Spade (Mar 16, 2020)

God they are so pretty! My new brax/helix are also beautiful but understated and amazing attention to detail. But no where ar pretty as yours


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Sam Spade said:


> God they are so pretty! My new brax/helix are also beautiful but understated and amazing attention to detail. But no where ar pretty as yours


The weather has turned cold and rainy where I live. I have not had a chance to install any of these little beauties yet. Hopefully over the weekend.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

OH BOY! About to wreak some havoc come spring time 










Ge0


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah you are!


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## Sam Spade (Mar 16, 2020)

VERY Noice!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

hells yes!!!!!!


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## EmoJackson (Aug 13, 2018)

Share with the group, what are you going to do with TWO V Twelve's?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

EmoJackson said:


> Share with the group, what are you going to do with TWO V Twelve's?


Congratulations. You are the first person to ask this most logical question. I'm going to wire them in parallel to get more power out of them.






OK. OK. Kidding . Seriously, one belongs to a friend. We ordered them together to get a better price. I'm stepping up from a V Eight to a V Twelve. I want a family mode where I activate the rear speakers and have a more traditional setup. Then, switch to me mode for critical listening. I might want to experiment with different speaker count and placement for my differential rear fill.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> I might want to experiment with different speaker count and placement for my differential rear fill.


_Awesome idea, I know just the 3-way set a Porsche should have in the rear..._


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

MythosDreamLab said:


> _Awesome idea, I know just the 3-way set a Porsche should have in the rear..._


I know, I have my sights set on that Skar Audio kit on Amazon


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

update?


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