# SONY CDX-C90 + McIntosh amps + Dynaudio 242GT = HORRIBLE SOUND QUALITY



## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

Guys... I used the "best" stuff and I have ass sound quality... please help!! This is a long post I will try to describe everything I can thoroughly.

I will start of by saying this is my 1st audio system and I did everything my self. I spent countless days researching & reading about how to install right. Still, this is my first time actually doing it...

2008 Access Cab Tacoma

CD Player: Sony CDX-C90 (broke it while installing DOH)
((using Ipod as source for now.))
front speakers: Dynaudio 242GT front 2-way components
rear speakers: Image Dynamics CTX-65 (not installed yet)
Amplifiers: McIntosh MCC431 (4x100W)
McIntosh MCC446 (4x55W & 2x110W)
Subwoofer: MTX Thunder6000 (250W rms, got it for free..) sealed 0.75cf box.
RCA cables: DBLink (USA made)
Speaker wiring: DBLink 12 gauge

Yesterday I fried my CDX-X90 (RIP) I cried lol.

I am using my sister's IPOD for now as the source. 

I have a McIntosh MX-406 on the way.

I have a $7 RadioShack headphone jack----> RCA cable going from the IPOD into the McIntosh amplifier. 

The Dyn's were installed in 100% insualted & deadened doors. Every single opening/hole was patched with metal and laid over with RAAMmat, 3 layers at least. The tweeters were mounted in the factory tweeter spots on the top of the door panels. 0.75" wood spacers + non-hardening clay were used to mount the woofers to the doors.

The sound I have is extremely resonant, boomy, seems to be missing the midrange. It is tiring to listen to. The vocals are decent however. The stage is at my feet, where the speakers are, not at ear level. There is a lack of base and midrange in general. Intsruments play OK, voices play semi-good, the rest just BLOWS. 

When I open the windows the sound quality gets a little better.

When I open all four doors and step 3-5 feet out of the truck there is a HUGE improvement in sound quality. The stage is brighter, clearer, cleaner, louder, and the mid-range is more present. The sound is a lot CLEANER 5 feet away from the truck!!!! I have asked 2 other people and they both told me its 10x better.

The back half of the truck is bare sheet metal. All the interior is ripped out to do insualtion.

I am not running any rear speakers.

I have 4 gauge USA made power cable running separate from any music wires. I have 4 gauge ground going directly to the chassis.

When a sound gets to a quiet part in a song I can hear a hiss/noise from the speakers.

Overall I am VERY VERY VERY dissapointed with this whole endeavour. My dad's *STOCK 2004 Accord with upgraded rear speakers* sounds BETTER than my $2500 system does.

What did I do wrong? The speakers are running with their passive crossovers, they are in phase, tweeter are at +0 dB. The sub is being fed 200W rms and the Dynaudio 100W rms each. I have tried feeding the Dyn's 200W each and the sound got harsher. The speakers play LOUDER with less wattage.. ? WTF??

Please help I am at a loss.

Is the crap-pod to blame? Did I buy fake Dynaudios ? DO I need rear speakers? Does the sheet metal in the back hurt that bad? The system sounds DECENT when I get out of the truck and leave the doors open. In short... why does my system sound like ass???


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

So the Sony head unit is toast? and you are using an Ipod and wonder why it sounds like ****? I am correct?


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## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

where did you buy your dyn's? they may be fake.

on your ipod, check all your settings and make sure they are flat and make sure you are using a lossless file or high quality mp3.


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

Guys, Thanks for your responses. The Dynaudio were bought from Frank, the owner of 20 HZ Audio (12V audio shop in Canada). His site is: 

http://www.20hzaudio.com/


Unpredictable, yes, you are correct, I am using the Ipod as the source. The CDX-C90 is dead. I have also tried a $60 AIWA walkman type CD player (HORRIBLE). Also, I have tried a laptop computer as a source, just playing a CD (BAD). The Ipod player beat them all in terms of SQ.

I am playing mainly 320kbps MP3's. All settings flat.

The Ipod is the only thing I got untill the McIntosh MX-406 comes in. Its not even mine but my sister let me borrow it untill I get my head unit.

Does any one know why the sound is so much better outside the truck with doors open?

My friend's dad (electrical engineer) says he can probably fix the CDX-C90, or at least tell me whats broken. We're going to give it a try in the next few days.

Thanks for any help in diagnosing the (many?) problem(s).


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the Esotec box...

Frank sounded like a reputable guy, I checked references, his audio shop does in fact exist.

The speakers are manufactured with amazing high quality.


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## AceX (Dec 15, 2008)

So you spent all this money on some SERIOUS equipment and then decided to use a Sony head unit? which you promptly fried...?

Firstly, the best equipment doesn't mean the best sound. You could have crap x-over settings, terrible amounts of gain set, not enough sound deadening, bad grounding, bad RCA's, noisy alternator, voltage issues...

Also, your speakers probably don't play louder with less power, just better. 100w of cleaner power > 200w of garbage.

Turn your gains on the amps all the way down. Check all your wiring for any loose/bad connections. Check the grounds and battery terminals. Go from there.

EDIT: I also noticed that you never listed an EQ in the parts. Try adding one and playing with it for a while. Also, if all this equipment is in fact brand new, don't push it too hard. it might not be broken in yet...


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

AceX said:


> So you spent all this money on some SERIOUS equipment and then decided to use a Sony head unit? which you promptly fried...? ......edit.....


The Sony CDX-C90 is not low end. It is a highly regarded old school copper chassis deck. You might want to do some research before dismissing it.

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TacoSQ said:


> Is the crap-pod to blame? Did I buy fake Dynaudios ? DO I need rear speakers? Does the sheet metal in the back hurt that bad? The system sounds DECENT when I get out of the truck and leave the doors open. In short... why does my system sound like ass???


I've never seen or heard of fake Dynaudio 242GT's. The only fakes I'm aware of were the older System 240's. Those were before Dyn started using hologram serial numbered stickers. Dyn's are notorious for needing break in time on their larger mid-bass drivers. Do some searching and you'll find lots of discussions on DIYMA.

You need a decent source unit(Ipod doesn't qualify).


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Um, yeah. The CDX-C90 was a $1,200 head unit. It doesn't have as much processing power as modern HUs, but it was one helluva SQ HU. It is considered by many to be one of the best SQ units of all time.

To the OP, as someone said, you plugged an iPod into your Mac amp and expected good sound??? Two things: 

1) You can't possibly compare the DACs on an iPod to those of a CDX-C90, or any good HU. You are amplifying crappy sound, it's gonna sound like even bigger crap.

2) Good sound requires tuning. If all you have is an iPod connected to an amp, you have zero tuning. Once you get everything up and running, you will be happy. Before I tuned my system I literally could not listen to it for more than 5 minutes before I had a headache.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Along with some break in time, the speakers need some tuning- mainly a suitable xover point for the particular airspace the drivers are working with. Many poly cones, tend to sound resonant crossed too low or as they stretch their legs, theres also the door panel itself and grill area of your door panel restricting outut into the cabin and getting trapped behind the door boosting the resonance. Amidst conflicting arguments, there is a period for every speaker's suspension to settle into a leaky enclosure. Its not as a controlled environment as slapping a driver into a sealed box, thats why experiences vary from car door to car door.

When you listen to some buds on your ipod the stage is going to clearly be different than sitting in cabin with drivers spread apart everywhere. Most passive setups will lose phase coherency, mid from tweets.... when spread too far apart, requiring you to wire each mid out of phase with the tweeter per xover to perhaps reach a more coherent response/arrival to your ears from each side of the vehicle. Some level adjustment wouldnt'nt hurt either, as primitive as it is it is highly functional= All tools you dont have ATM.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Well,

This may very well be a perfect example of why people say you can have the best equipment but if your tuning job is poor, your sound is poor.

I suggest you use a little bass boost since you have a decent sub stage to make the lows a little more rich, this will reduce the "tinny" sound. Make sure you properly balance your sub output to your mids/hi's. If you have an equalizer built into your IPOD, use it to play with the 2KHz-2.5KHz range to simulate widening/narrowing the stereo image. It's not a perfect method for this, but it could help reduce the 'tinny' sound, or it could help a narrow system sound 'wider'. Another way to reduce the 'tinny' sound and make a more 'rich' sound with an EQ is the last resort of lowering 1KHz. 

Try to adjust it until it sound good. People will tell you sometimes not to use an EQ and not to use bass boost methods, etc. Don't listen. Do what it takes to make it sound like you like it. That's all that counts. 

There are so many ways to tune up a system and you should have plenty of options with that equipment to make it sound good.


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## aztec1 (Jun 13, 2008)

I feel your pain. When I first got my system installed a few weeks ago, it sounded like total ass. I don't have near the gear you do, but the disappointment factor was still very high. So far (with the help of the kind folks here) I have been able to get it closer to sounding great, and the only thing I've done is try to tune it using the suggestions I got here.

In short, get a processor and ask questions


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

i hate to say that you might want to make sure the phase of the dyn's is proper. it is very easy to mess up connections at the crossover etc. the thing that makes me wonder is that it sounds bad in the car, but sounds better the further away you are. not sure how good Dyn's are at off axis listening, but i have never been a fan of door installs. i say go over everything again in terms of the simple stuff. wiring, pahse, crossover, etc and make sure that's proper. i think even with a 128kbps you should get something that is a real TREAT to listen to with a proper install. got any pics of the install? i would also disconnect the sub and start by listening to ONLY the dyns and start tuning from there. by the way, most installs DO sound "bad" after just turning it on. you are in a car. there WILL be some tuning to get it right, and it might be simple too. in my car i just had to get the crossovers set properly (all active) and the levels adjusted, but there was a bit of EQ necessary as well, and all of a sudden, BAM, it sounded fantastic!! give it a chance, and even if it is just bass and treble, you would be surprised what you can do to "tune" with even limited adjustment. have faith, i am sure this can be made to sound the way it should!!


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

No interior doesn't help, since that can turn the interior into an echo chamber. I would reinstall the interior, get a HU, then tune the system like so: 

How to go about tuning my system with P880PRS? - CarAudioForum.com


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

The OP said the sound was resonant and boomy. 

I would NOT use the bass boost, and like posted earlier, make sure the EQ on the I-pod is off. I believe the Ipod has an OFF and a FLAT, try both, but i think off would work better. Besides that, there isn't much you can do until you get a better source that lets you make some adjustments. Good luck.


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## azn6r (Oct 22, 2008)

Regarding the sound inconsistencies when the doors/windows are open versus closed, I'll have to second the idea that it could be a phase issue. I'd suggest double checking all connections to make sure it's connected properly... and if it is, at least you have a baseline to start playing with phase. 

Mind you, since you're not using a processor, you will be limited to how much you can manipulate with your fixed install. You can either change your speaker placement or pick up a processor like the XDP-4000X and work with what you have. 

Personally, I'd suggest doing both because with great gear (I really like the C90ES myself!) why sacrifice on install? 

Good luck!


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

gijoe said:


> The OP said the sound was resonant and boomy.
> 
> I would NOT use the bass boost, and like posted earlier, make sure the EQ on the I-pod is off. I believe the Ipod has an OFF and a FLAT, try both, but i think off would work better. Besides that, there isn't much you can do until you get a better source that lets you make some adjustments. Good luck.


Bass boost at the right place and reduction of the amp volume can actually even out bass and reduce boomy sounding lows. Resonant lower mid-range can be cut (300-400Hz) to reduce resonance in the mid-range. Tuning with an EQ takes trial and error and several hours of increasing and decreasing the different bands searching for a more balanced sound. It can be surprising how drastic some adjustments can get before balance is found. 

The advice to totally disable the EQ and then saying "that's all you can do" is total BS. That EQ is probably his best chance to fix the issue.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

^^^yeah, you wouldn't want to start from flat.....


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

yea lets throw some eq on it.

start slow and piece by piece. make sure everything is wired correctly and run through tuning guides. for some ****ing reason I didn't really need much eq when I setup my system.


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## It_Hertz (Mar 4, 2008)

AceX said:


> So you spent all this money on some SERIOUS equipment and then decided to use a Sony head unit? which you promptly fried...?
> 
> Firstly, the best equipment doesn't mean the best sound. You could have crap x-over settings, terrible amounts of gain set, not enough sound deadening, bad grounding, bad RCA's, noisy alternator, voltage issues...
> 
> ...





MACS said:


> The Sony CDX-C90 is not low end. It is a highly regarded old school copper chassis deck. You might want to do some research before dismissing it.
> 
> --------------------
> 
> ...





Mooble said:


> Um, yeah. The CDX-C90 was a $1,200 head unit. It doesn't have as much processing power as modern HUs, but it was one helluva SQ HU. It is considered by many to be one of the best SQ units of all time.
> 
> To the OP, as someone said, you plugged an iPod into your Mac amp and expected good sound??? Two things:
> 
> ...



The Sony Mobile ES CDX-C90 was (still is) one of the premier Sound Q head units it was the last Mobile ES H/U produced by Sony... and is still sought after. Though the Display was next to impossible to see in the day (most could deal with it for the SQ) it was simple on the processing to the point that it could be a direct pass thru with no bass or treble processing. with a true 8volts out and a super clean look. The Wired remote they included had thousands of dollars in R&D in it and is a fine piece of work.


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## ARCuhTEK (Dec 22, 2008)

His problem is in the lack of HU. An Ipod on a Y-to-RCA adapter is CRAPOLA...coming from a headphone jack!!!

I know this because when I first got my Ipod I had a party and I was relying on the same adapter to my home stereo amplifer....OMG it was CRAPPPPP.

I now have a proper plug in for the OTHER side of the iPod....and it sounds amazing.

I woudl not do anything until I got the real HU. EQ included. I am not saying you do not need an EQ to tune your system....just not until after you get the HU. If that does not significantly improve the sound by itself...then there is another issue that an EQ wont fix either. If it does sound better..then its time to EQ it.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> Bass boost at the right place and reduction of the amp volume can actually even out bass and reduce boomy sounding lows. Resonant lower mid-range can be cut (300-400Hz) to reduce resonance in the mid-range. Tuning with an EQ takes trial and error and several hours of increasing and decreasing the different bands searching for a more balanced sound. It can be surprising how drastic some adjustments can get before balance is found.
> 
> The advice to totally disable the EQ and then saying "that's all you can do" is total BS. That EQ is probably his best chance to fix the issue.


Have you ever used the EQ on an Ipod? There isn't a lot of flexibility, really all you have are presets to work with. The OP will want to turn the EQ off or flat to see what happens first, then, if he's lucky, he can find one of the preset EQ's on the Ipod to work. My experience with them though, is that nasty things happen when you amplify the sound from the Ipod with it set on anything but off or flat.


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

gijoe said:


> Have you ever used the EQ on an Ipod? There isn't a lot of flexibility, really all you have are presets to work with. The OP will want to turn the EQ off or flat to see what happens first, then, if he's lucky, he can find one of the preset EQ's on the Ipod to work. My experience with them though, is that nasty things happen when you amplify the sound from the Ipod with it set on anything but off or flat.


Stop, facts don't mean jack. You're talking Tspence and the laws of physics and audio that you I live by don't apply in his world. :rockstar:


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Yeah, that's right, just keep on keepin' on with that there hi-end sound. Leave the EQ off. Don't cha just love that boomy bass and resonant lower mid? Yeah hoo! epper:


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies. I sound deadened the rest of the truck for a slight improvement in sq. (less boomy, more punchy mid-bass)


I am going to follow the suggestions listed here:

1) get a good HU installed (MX-406)
2) do the phase & amplifier gain tuning as refered to by Jimi77 and Autiophile 

About the EQ, I am seriously having trouble separating the sarcasm from actual advice. Please dumb it down, lol. I thought I can have VERY VERY GOOD sound WITHOUT ANY (artificial) EQ or time alignment? (I always thought 'less is more') I have no money left for either anyway.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

TacoSQ said:


> About the EQ, I am seriously having trouble separating the sarcasm from actual advice. Please dumb it down, lol. I thought I can have VERY VERY GOOD sound WITHOUT ANY (artificial) EQ or time alignment? (I always thought 'less is more') I have no money left for either anyway.


The iPod is what threw people off.

A component EQ is necessary. iPod EQ is for headphones only.


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## Skierman (Mar 3, 2008)

When you have your deck, update us. Best of luck


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## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

I had the same problem with my X-runner. I followed the advise I got from BigRed and put my tweeters in the a-pillar 2 inch's above the highest part of the dash against the window by the handels almost. I'm 6'4" and my image was also by my ankles now it sounds really good. Like most have said check polarity. I'l post pics later. Less is more don't add more to the signal path.


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

I found your problem. It's between your seat and your steering wheel.

Next time I would recommend titling your post "Help with tuning my system" instead of "GOD ALL THIS GEAR SUCKS WTF". From what I've been reading, frankly, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground SQ wise. To be fair, I'm not saying I do, BUT you can't expect to buy $2500 worth of equipment, slap it all together and expect it to sound good, and better than the stock stereo in a modern car. 

Think about it, even though the sum total cost of all of the speakers in that Accord was around $5, it's been tuned to sound fairly well put-together and to boot, tuned to the specific acoustics of that car! If you did the same with your equipment... well, the differences will be obvious, _to say the least._

First of all, it sounds like your phasing is an absolute _nightmare_. Fix that and I guarantee it'll sound awesome and put a huge smile on your face. If you can't find how to do that by searching, reverse the speaker wires on your individual speakers (where they plugin to the amp or crossover, preferably) one at a time until they sound better.

Secondly, you have zero processing. How are you crossing all this stuff over, with the passives I assume? God help us if you're running active  Throw some time alignment in there and it'll sound even better. Don't bother with the EQ unless you're really interested in spending a crapton of time moving stuff up and down and seeing what sounds the best, you have a measurement setup, or someone else running the exact same setup has some tips for you. Otherwise, if you're blindly tooling about with your EQ the odds are highly stacked against you in the realm of making your stereo sound better.

So, now for the good news. You're in the right place. Take a deep breath, slow down, have a slice of humble pie, and use this forum for what's meant for... reading... and search for god's sake!


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> Yeah, that's right, just keep on keepin' on with that there hi-end sound. Leave the EQ off. Don't cha just love that boomy bass and resonant lower mid? Yeah hoo! epper:


Have you ever contributed anything useful to a thread?

At the OP, follow the many basic tuning guides found here and listen to Donovan, you must tackle phasing and TA before even attempting to tune, and doing EQ accurately without an RTA is impossible.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

icehole said:


> The iPod is what threw people off.
> 
> A component EQ is necessary. iPod EQ is for headphones only.


 Dude, did you just say that? Seriously. :dunce:


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

TacoSQ said:


> About the EQ, I am seriously having trouble separating the sarcasm from actual advice. Please dumb it down, lol. I thought I can have VERY VERY GOOD sound WITHOUT ANY (artificial) EQ or time alignment? (I always thought 'less is more') I have no money left for either anyway.


I think you have a misconception about EQ. You are not doing it for the sake of altering sound like Joel in Risky Business. You are doing it to fix problems that result from installation in a car. The point of using an EQ is to get a flat response, but it's not flat in your car right now. That is the problem you are describing. If you had all this stuff installed in a living room, it would sound amazing, but this is a car. You have all sorts of nasties because of that. The EQ will allow you to fix carborne peaks and valleys. 

Less is not more. You absolutely need EQ to have great sound in a car IMO (at least in your case). There are ways around it with very careful installation and driver choice, but using a stock location like you have, EQ is essential.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

Listen to the last two posters. Some processing would have been money much better spent than esoteric amps.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> Dude, did you just say that? Seriously. :dunce:


It's consensus among those who don't have a gay bum's anus between their ears.


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## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

taco.. several things, & no sarcasm...

1.) HOW did you fry the C90? did you have the battery still connected while wiring it live? Just asking... completely disconnect the battery before you even unbox the 406. For the love of god don't ruin ANOTHER rare/high end deck from carelessness.

2.) Are you using any crossovers in the amps? If so which crossovers & what settings?

3.) the iPod/HU is 75% of your issue.

4.) another 15% of the issue has got to be wiring related. If the wire from DBlink is not specifically marked with a polarity (+) or (-) sign, next option is to choose the side of the speaker wire with writing & use it for (+) on all speaker connections. Consistency is key. A Donovan suggested, slow down... think out what you are doing before you lift a tool.

5.) Since your New HU (406) won't have any on-board processing (that I am aware of) you will eventually want some processing power. Start budgeting for phase 2 of your build. A good processor will definitely help.

6.) Where are the 242GT pieces mounted, specifically? All in the doors? what about the passive crossovers? The should NOT be inside the door. they should either be back by the amps, or at least in the kick panel. They have adjustments in them as well you will need to get to. I have often seen the internal adjustments at different settings... this would cause several of your issues as well (midrange off etc). If you say the sound is all down low, where the speakers are mounted... at least move the tweeter up to the factory tweeter pod on the top of the door, or as previously suggested, mount them in the a-pillar. if the 242GT tweeter is behind the factory speaker grill, this would explain another 5% of your issues.

7.) Sounding bigger outside the truck baffles me. The BASS I would make sense. But Midrange & tweeter sounding better outside is bizzare.

Good luck... slow down... ignore the smart asses.

Rob


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

TXwrxWagon said:


> taco.. several things, & no sarcasm...
> 
> 1.) HOW did you fry the C90? did you have the battery still connected while wiring it live? Just asking... completely disconnect the battery before you even unbox the 406. For the love of god don't ruin ANOTHER rare/high end deck from carelessness.
> 
> ...


x2...what Rob said.

As for point 7, if he has some phase issues due to wiring, opening the doors wide and such may be alleviating some cancellation issues, if they exist.


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## Skierman (Mar 3, 2008)

What side of town are you on?


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## Tone (Aug 16, 2008)

Upon initial installation/testing my expensive installs always sounded midrangy and flat, but I always use an eq to drop those harsh sounding midrange frequencies that are concomitant with the interior acoustics of most vehicles (especially with all the glass and leather failing to absorb). 

Hence, i 've always used an eq (preferably parametric) to deal with those midrange frequencies that are overpronounced in a vehicle's environment and also a Phoenix Gold Basscube which is a parametric eq that gives bass control and tuning capability to the listener. The Basscube will likely be worth your time/$ because the enclosure for your sub is probably not a perfect match and the BC gives you the ability to set the gain control at whatever frequency that makes your sub and box sound the best as a combination. Also, since many recordings have different levels of bass the BC allows you the convenience to easily adjust the subwoofer gain from the remote control that you locate near your drivers seat.

So - I would suggest:

1) getting a headunit (Mac is great, but Clarion DRZ9255 is a Mac but better with parametric eq and active crossover built in).
2)getting a good eq (like an Audio Control EQL which is very affordable).Remember, setting the eq takes time - it usually takes me a few days of driving around and tweaking before it sounds excellent.
3) getting a Basscube. 
And don't be suprised if after all this is done you still don't like the Dyn's because they are not everyone's cup of tea. 

ps. my falmesuit is ready for in defense of my "verbosity".


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It_Hertz said:


> with a true 8volts out


8 Volts my ass. It was rated at 4V, not 8 and to Sony that means 2V per channel since that was all I was ever able to get out of mine.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> 8 Volts my ass. It was rated at 4V, not 8 and to Sony that means 2V per channel since that was all I was ever able to get out of mine.


A little off topic, but how can you measure this? Just kinda curious.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

I hope I don't get banned for saying this but you may want to find a good reputable shop in your area and take it to them. 

I realize that this is DIYMA and I respect your try but sometimes, somewhere, all of us get in over our heads. Nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes it just takes someone with a little more experience than you have.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

dbl post


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

gijoe said:


> A little off topic, but how can you measure this? Just kinda curious.


A CD with high level test tones and a multi-meter.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Notloudenuf said:


> I hope I don't get banned for saying this but you may want to find a good reputable shop in your area and take it to them.
> 
> I realize that this is DIYMA and I respect your try but sometimes, somewhere, all of us get in over our heads. Nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes it just takes someone with a little more experience than you have.


Nah, you won't get banned. We all make mistakes, but I would not want him to make another mistake by paying even more money to a shop. It's fairly easy to see what is wrong with his system. The OP made the mistake of buying a bunch of expensive equipment without researching first (I know you said you did a lot of research first, but these are some pretty simple errors that could have been avoided). It will sound good with a real HU in there, but it won't sound great without tuning which you can't do without buying more equipment. I hate to say it, but you might want to look into the Audison Bit-One. Macs sound great but they have zero processing capability. That way you could also run the Dyns active.

Before you spend any more money, STOP. Listen to the advice you are getting here. Throwing money on an even more expensive HUs is not going to help you. The best thing IMO for you to do is send the 406 back, sell the C90 for parts, and get a DRZ9255 (although a PRS800 would be another excellent and cheaper choice). The SQ will be just as good and you will have the processing power to fix the issues you are having. While you are at it, you definitely don't need rear speakers in a pickup. Sell those and the MCC226. Use the MCC431 to power the Dyns actively and get a decent sub amp. Even if you could hear a difference between amps, I will gurantee you that you won't on a sub. Any $200 amp will be more than enough for that sub.

Right now you are just throwing money down a hole and there's no end in sight.


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

From one tacoma owner to another.

You have some really good advice from previous posts

First things first get some processing if you want to go simple get a Premier PRS800 or PRS880 more expensive Clarion DRZ9255 or Audison Bit One
Next after you get something with some time aligment you will need to move your tweets 2in above the highest point on the dash or in the kicks tack them up using clay or velcro to try different spots
if you want to get technical with the mids so low you probabley won't ever get the stage the way you want without some mids that can handle the imaging cues
also look up some tuning threads on here there is a simple but good one from CMusic that was pasted here by Mr.Marv
phasing also sounds like a culprit which has been covered


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks for the patience and courtesy shown here on DIYMA. I fried the CDX-C90 by accidently grounding the amp remote ON wire I think. 

My friend did some tuning today and there is a noticeable imrovement in sound. Still not what I was expecting, but a lot better than before. The mid range is cleaner now and less resonant. 

*One of the woofer's was out of phase.*

I will follow the advice given to me here, and will update the thread when I get the HU installed.

Thanks for everything.


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

I am running the speakers passive with the supplied Dynaudio crossovers, mounted under the seats.

The woofers are mounted in the stock woofer location in the lower corner of the doors. The tweeters I mounted in the factory tweeter location which is in the very top spot of the door panel. (see attached picture)

I won't blow up the MX-406. I was working for 11 hrs+ non stop and started to rush... we all make mistakes thats the only way some people learn lol.


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

I figured there was a wire flipped somewhere.

Got any pictures of the doors now with the Dyn's installed? Have you done any deadening to the doors? Have you looked at the passive crossovers to see if there are jumpers you can set for tweet level or anything?

I still don't think he needs to go blow a ton of cash on a separate EQ. I'd just get a nice new deck like a 800prs or 9887 and use that for your bit of EQ'ing.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

TacoSQ said:


> *One of the woofer's was out of phase.*
> 
> I will follow the advice given to me here, and will update the thread when I get the HU installed.
> 
> Thanks for everything.


way to go!! one logical step at a time and i am sure you will soon be a very happy listener!!however, if true sonic bliss you are after, you gotta do something about the mounting locations. doors are just not where it's at, and neither are large distances that separate the mids from the tweeters. i think that sonically, you'd be better off at least moving the tweeters closer to the mids, and if at all possible, moving the mids to locations more equidistant from the listener than the locations in the doors. of course, all of this requires more work, but i think moving the tweeters closer to the mids will help as well. on another note, Dyn's LOVE to be crossed over actively, so if you can at all ditch that passive crossover, DO IT!! and then add some EQ and mild time alignment tweaking and voila, superior sound  enjoy!!


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## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

just a quick note about phase

since you don't have any T/A test each speaker and see whether it is better in or out.

it may be better to have one out of phase


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> 8 Volts my ass. It was rated at 4V, not 8 and to Sony that means 2V per channel since that was all I was ever able to get out of mine.


I've got one sitting in front of me right now and I'm getting 3.96v out of it.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

3.96V isn't 8V. I did have one of the first that was shipped to our store so they may have made improvements later on, but the point is, NOTHING Sony ever made was 8V.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I never said it was 8 volts. I'm just saying 3.96 is close enough for me to consider the 4v rating accurate and it's definitely more than 2v.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

I've been using Sony since the early 80s and to the best of my knowledge it was all 4v. On my current amps,the gain is marked in the center detent ,4v sony std. I'm not aware of them ever having anything 8v.:thinking2:


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## Viperoni (Oct 14, 2006)

I can vouch that Frank Valenti exists, but I've never been at his new shop (I was at his 2 previous locations over the past 5-7 years)... he also had Canada's loudest SPL van at one point (big yellow astro van loaded with strokers IIRC).


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

So I installed the MX-406 about 5 minutes ago. I also mounted the tweeters on the dash (on axis).

I am now very very happy with the system. The songs I listened to a hundred times before all sound different now though. It seems like I can pin point instruments and there a lot of defects like someone breathing, or talking very quietly, etc. lol The MTX6000 subwoofer is now amazing, perhaps the best part of the system, bass hits hard and then dissapears so well. Also it started playing low frequencies I did not know where there! (same thing with the high's)

And I was listening with door panels off lol. I am sure the sound will get fuller when I put them back on.

I have a small hiss coming from one of the tweeters and we're chasing that gremlin right now.

I will post pics tommorow after I clean up the wiring and make everything 'picturable'.

Thanks for all the help you guys saved my sanity lol.


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## TacoSQ (Dec 29, 2008)

In other news my friend fixed the CDX-C90, we found there was a blown fuse in the actual truck I overlooked before. So the CDX-C90 is alive as well !!


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

What is wrong with an Ipod for source? :dead_horse:


unpredictableacts said:


> So the Sony head unit is toast? and you are using an Ipod and wonder why it sounds like ****? I am correct?


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## ARCuhTEK (Dec 22, 2008)

8675309 said:


> What is wrong with an Ipod for source? :dead_horse:



Nothing as long as you have the right cables...or perhaps if it is not used as the only source.


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

TacoSQ said:


> In other news my friend fixed the CDX-C90, we found there was a blown fuse in the actual truck I overlooked before. So the CDX-C90 is alive as well !!


Awesome!!! Glad you fixed the C90 . . . . . 



So how much will you sell it to me for?


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## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

8675309 said:


> What is wrong with an Ipod for source? :dead_horse:



thanks I needed that laugh... the smiley is classic...

I ask the same thing when people poo-hoo my portable Sirius radio I listen to every day... I don't expect to win any contests with the sirius...

Rob


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

8675309 said:


> What is wrong with an Ipod for source? :dead_horse:


Nothing at all as long as you love the sound of dry unlively music that sounds like it is being heard from the speakers that are used at a monster truck rally.:worried:


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

this was amusing....I needed a good chuckle.....c-90/910 never 8 volts...but still one of the best sounding decks I have ever had..3 times...if not for the dang face I would still have it...


word of advice...slow down...


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