# Lost My Mind... MMATS Amplifiers and Audiofrog Speakers



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

So, I've spent the past few weeks (and thousands of dollars) doing a number of changes to my system...

It all started on March 9th, when I saw the 20% off deal on eBay - so I bought a Helix DSP Pro MkII, for $648.00 
I had no idea what I was going to do with the Helix, but I couldn't resist the deal... that purchase sparked the fever. 

After that, I got hold of Jerry Neibur and bought a set of Audiofrog GB25 mids (I've always wanted to do a 3-way active front), and a pair of Audiofrog GB10D2 subs.

My initial plan was to use both of my 6-channel Zapco Z-LX amps for this project... but I've been eyeing the MMATS amplifiers for a number of years, and curiosity got the best of me. 
I talked directly with David Thompson of MMATS, and he sold me a pair of HiFi-6150d amplifiers for a fair price - still expensive, but fair.

(I currently have my Zapco amplifiers for sale in the classified section, if anyone is interested)

Here's what I did:

Took out the spare tire and built a sub box out of fibreglass (molded to the floor of my vehicle)
The enclosure has 4 layers of fibreglass, and a 3/4" MDF top, with the interior of the box fully lined with Dynamat.









Built an amp rack for the MMATS, and mounted the Helix DSP below (also stashed the extra RCA cable under there)









I also installed Audiofrog GB25 mids in the front (factory location). No pictures to show... sorry.

Sub box finished, with a rats nest of wires, ready for amps to be installed.
I also bought a pair of JL Audio 10" speaker grilles, to protect the sub cones (they fit the Frogs perfectly):









Started running the power cables to the amps:
I flipped one of the amps around, so the power cables were on the outsides of each amp. I didn't want any interference.
I also took the cover off one, and flipped it, so the both nameplates face forward. Just details...









Tinned all the speaker wires with solder... more details.









Here’s how it looks after I finished the carpeting and wiring.









Here’s the stealth shot… I built a false floor to keep all the gear protected and hidden:









I have each amp running as: independent left and independent right.
•	Channel 1 – left tweeter (Sinfoni Tempo 10)
•	Channel 2- left midrange (Audiofrog GB25)
•	Channel 3 – left woofer (Audiofrog GB60)
•	Channel 4 – left rear door (Dynaudio Esotar 650 / MD102)
•	Channel 5 & 6 bridged – left sub (Audiofrog GB10D2)
•	Channel 7 – right tweeter (Sinfoni Tempo 10)
•	Channel 8- right midrange (Audiofrog GB25)
•	Channel 9 – right woofer (Audiofrog GB60)
•	Channel 10 – right rear door (Dynaudio Esotar 650 / MD102)
•	Channel 11 & 12 bridged – right sub (Audiofrog GB10D2)

Spent a few hours doing tuning and time alignment. Sounds pretty good (actually, it sounds friggen amazing!)
I also have a Dayton UMM-6 USB microphone coming, so I can utilize the RTA function of the Helix.

Here's my thoughts:

The Audiofrog GB25 mids are amazing for their size. 
I wanted to use the factory location, which allowed for a 2.75" max sized speaker. 
I have an active 3-way front stage, paired with Sinfoni Tempo 10 tweeters (crossed at 4550Hz), and Esotar 650 woofers (crossed at 510Hz)

The Audiofrog GB10D2 subs are also amazing. I'm running them at 4ohm, and they absolutely pound! 
I needed to turn the gain right down, as they were overpowering the rest of the system. 
I build my systems for SQ, not SPL...

The Helix DSP Pro MkII... what else needs to be said about this unit. 
It's world class. Best of the best. Super intuitive software, and built like a tank. 
I am still using my mObridge DA3 to tap into the Audi's MOST network, and from the mObridge I am running a single Toslink optical cable into the Helix.

The MMATS HiFi-6150d amplifiers. These were the 'x-factor' items. 
I already had premium SQ amplifiers on hand, and wasn't really excited about spending a couple grand more on new amps... 
But I've wanted to try these for about 3 years now. So, I decided to go for it. 
And... HOLY SH!T are they ever nice! 
Do they sound better than the Zaps? I wouldn't say they sound better, but they definitely sound every bit as good, and produce similar power output.
The advantage is their compact size, and they don't get hot. Actually, they don't even get warm. 
Not kidding... I had them cranked (fully cranked) for about 40 minutes, and then went back to check on them... and they were STONE COLD! 
It was almost creepy, considering they are each driving 6 speakers, which includes a 10" sub @ 4ohm! 

I'm pretty pleased with my new setup.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

sounds like all worthwhile upgrades! now you have proper midrange, your next job is to replace the dyns with a true midbass lol. they are excellent midranges but do lack some oomph in the midbass reigon.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Man that looks really nice.....you work fast!!!!


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

Nice work and excellent equipment choices


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## Driver of 102080 (Sep 19, 2016)

I love my mmats 6150d Powers the whole system. I can't imagine having 2. How hard is it to tune with the helix dsp? 

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm jelly.. very nice work.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> Man that looks really nice.....you work fast!!!!


That's what she said...

Actually, the fibreglass sub enclosure is what took most of the time (about a week to finish). 
I started building it, right after I ordered the speakers from you.
As soon as they arrived, it was all ready to go, and I dropped them right in.

The majority of the other stuff was already in place.
I had to make small speaker mounts for the GB25's, and run another set of cables, but that's about it.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

omg, i was on the edge of my seat reading this, i thought it was going to end completely different, like a i hate the Helix and i just can't believe how crappy it sounds type of post. Y'm so glad it ended well, and it looks AMAZING !!!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Driver of 102080 said:


> I love my mmats 6150d Powers the whole system. I can't imagine having 2. How hard is it to tune with the helix dsp?


I've worked with a few different DSP's, and the Helix is, by far, the easiest one I've ever used... 
Tuning was a snap. Probably the fastest I've ever done.
Everything just... makes sense.


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## Driver of 102080 (Sep 19, 2016)

jimmydee said:


> I've worked with a few different DSP's, and the Helix is, by far, the easiest one I've ever used...
> Tuning was a snap. Probably the fastest I've ever done.
> Everything just... makes sense.


I am glad to hear it worked well for you. I think the helix dsp is going to be my next purchase .

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Thank you for posting this up Jimmy....I have always pondered about these damn 6150s ever since I saw one a while back. Your comment about sounding just as good as the z150.6lx definitely gets me re-interested in the little boogers....just when I thought I had shaken the bug free.... 

Seriously though, very nice set-up and glad you are happy with the new purchases. Best purchase I made thus far was the Helix Pro MKII I am now using in my system.... it is a very solid piece and user-friendly as well.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

beak81champ said:


> Nice work and excellent equipment choices





bnae38 said:


> I'm jelly.. very nice work.


x2! Looks great and I'm sure it sounds amazing! Nice work on the wiring layout and routing as well. :thumbsup:

I did a very similar 3-way front + sub setup in my girlfriends daily driver and we are both really happy with it. But I was lucky as the shape of the underfloor rear hatch area was very rectangular and flat with plenty of cubic volume, so it was easier to just build a simple rectangular Baltic Birch subwoofer enclosure.

I used Four 8" subwoofers facing forward in a box that's placed nearly identical to yours in order to eliminate the need for an extra false floor while also keeping it stealth, and to not have to worry about damaging the subwoofers when using the cargo area...it gets a lot of use.

I didn't use the MMATS amplifiers in this install because I already had some others laying around, but I was very tempted to. They provide just about the perfect power arrangement in a nice, compact package. And it's great that they stay cool under load as well!

In another vehicle, I was thinking about stacking two of MMATS HiFi-6150D amps and placing them vertically behind the trim panel in the rear passenger-side quarter panel area, but initially I was worried about ventilation and keeping them cool. But it seems like they might do okay there, so I'll probably give it a shot.

Thanks for posting and enjoy your new system!


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## seanarms (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for posting your results on MMATS...I have homework!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Lycancatt said:


> sounds like all worthwhile upgrades! now you have proper midrange, your next job is to replace the dyns with a true midbass lol. they are excellent midranges but do lack some oomph in the midbass reigon.


If I can find a deal on a pair of Audiofrog GB60's, I may swap-out the fronts for those, and put the Esotars in the rear doors.


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## Lonstar (May 13, 2017)

Niebur3 said:


> Man that looks really nice.....you work fast!!!!


Off topic, but Niebur3, read post you got the quote from in your sig....that's some funny ****. Wow. Thanks for the laugh.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

More changes upcoming...

* Focals are coming our of the rear.
* Esotars are going in the back (with an Esotec tweeter).
* Audiofrog GB60 midbass is going in the fronts (replacing the Esotar 650).

Damn... I just realized that; in the past month, I've changed virtually everything, except the Sinfoni Tempo 10 tweeters in the front!


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

@jimmydee

Is there a link for the helix at that price or is that a standard price for the unit? Was the controller included?

I am trying to finalize my build equipment list and dsp is the last thing. Local shop will install,
Unfortunately they only do JL Audio/ Audison/ Focal. When I asked about Mosconi gladen Dsp they looked at me like they never heard of it. 

This is my first active system. Have read on here to purchase DSP from the shop in case of. I am an audio mixing and mastering engineer so eq, crossovers, filters, time alignment, phase all these things are part of my everyday life.


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

Meant to say that’s an Amazing system and beauty false floor build. I wish I had the fiberglass skills etc. Sub installs and big 3 are my biggest car audio install adventures lol. Would love to hear a setup like that ?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

For the size of these little guys, and your opinion of them makes it an option if I ever need something in that price range. Thanks.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ChaseUTB said:


> @jimmydee
> 
> Is there a link for the helix at that price or is that a standard price for the unit? Was the controller included?


Here's the link, for the guy i bought the Helix DSP from:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HELIX-DSP-P...017-WARRANY-/262935632769?hash=item3d382f5b81

Although, when I bought it, he had them listed for: $748.00
Then with the eBay deal (at the time) I got another $100.00 knocked off the price. 

Paid $648.00 for it, and the guy shipped it right away (from Italy). It arrived in 4 days. 

The fellow also has a deal on the DSP and Controller, if that's what you want.


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## TomT (May 19, 2005)

I can’t find any info, can you bridge channels 1&2 and 3&4 to a 3 ohm load? Any idea of the amount of power in that configuration? Might be great for my midbasses and rear doors (or maybe sub).


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

jimmydee said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> > @jimmydee
> ...


Thanks so much !!!! I’m sure your build sounds awesome ?


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## Running.Amok (May 17, 2018)

i have seen a lot of ebay post on the older stuff. they state that it is raw and powerful but not really geared towards SQ, has that changed?


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## Driver of 102080 (Sep 19, 2016)

TomT said:


> I can’t find any info, can you bridge channels 1&2 and 3&4 to a 3 ohm load? Any idea of the amount of power in that configuration? Might be great for my midbasses and rear doors (or maybe sub).


Why it will run 3 ohms unbridged. 150 @ 4 ohms [email protected] 2 ohms if you need more power look a the hi 4250 [email protected] ohm x4 or 400 @ 2 ohms or 800x2 bridged 

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## Driver of 102080 (Sep 19, 2016)

They are dead silent at full volume with no input. Very low distortion. I have Jbl 660gti's components for a front stage and a audiofrog gb12 d2 running off 1 6150d marine amp and it sounds amazing with a helix dsp2. No noise at all period. I have heard way more expensive amplifiers in different vehicles and I think mmats is a hell of deal for the money. Most people think of them as a spl company because that's who they cater to but there amplifiers are top notch sq amplifiers.


Running.Amok said:


> i have seen a lot of ebay post on the older stuff. they state that it is raw and powerful but not really geared towards SQ, has that changed?


Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Running.Amok said:


> i have seen a lot of ebay post on the older stuff. they state that it is raw and powerful but not really geared towards SQ, has that changed?


The HIFI series is totally different with regards to SQ compared to the older stuff that you are seeing on the bay. Basically, you are comparing apples to engine blocks in terms of SQ if you are comparing class d of old to class d of new. 

Even then, the MMATS monoblocks of old were great for powering subs and their class ab offerings were just as good as anything else class ab in terms of SQ at the time.

The two game changers for me in the full-range class d market were the JL Audio HD900/5 and the MMATS HIFI-6150d. It seems that when JL Audio released the HD900/5, everyone else had to step up their full-range class d game to compete in terms of sound quality! Even some of my die hard audio snob friends couldn't believe I was running a single HD 900/5 in my 2006 Mustang GT until I showed them. Even then, some of them accused me of hiding amps. :laugh: They just couldn't believe that class d could sound so good, yet alone a SINGLE amplifier!

I have to thank one of my acquaintances in the industry who once told me he would fully reimburse me for a certain class d amplifier if I thought it sounded like garbage. I'm not going to name drop, but he knows who he is.  Furthermore, had I not listened to this person, I'd still be one of those "Muh old skool class ab is da best... Change my mind!" morons. Because of this person, I came around and was able to open my mind to the fact that yes, technology can improve and the best from 30 years ago is pretty basic compared to what is out there today.


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## Running.Amok (May 17, 2018)

Driver of 102080 said:


> They are dead silent at full volume with no input. Very low distortion. I have Jbl 660gti's components for a front stage and a audiofrog gb12 d2 running off 1 6150d marine amp and it sounds amazing with a helix dsp2. No noise at all period. I have heard way more expensive amplifiers in different vehicles and I think mmats is a hell of deal for the money. Most people think of them as a spl company because that's who they cater to but there amplifiers are top notch sq amplifiers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


if you compare the power at the price and if its SQ clean it is a hell of a deal dare i say cheap!?!


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## Driver of 102080 (Sep 19, 2016)

Running.Amok said:


> if you compare the power at the price and if its SQ clean it is a hell of a deal dare i say cheap!?!


You should just demo some mmats hifi amplifiers to see for yourself. The only meaningful upgrade to them I couldn't afford unless it was used . I can't hear the difference between a mmats and brax amplifier blindly listening so I'll never upgrade again. And I hope the hell mmats keeps making the hifi amplifiers. 

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