# 6.5" Comp speakers, up to $350



## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm going to be installing these in the doors of a 1993 Honda Prelude VTEC. It currently has the stock speakers, they are 21 years old and sound really bad. 
Back in 1998 I had a '94 Prelude with Cerwin Vega comps, they sounded great but I hear CV isn't as good these days.
I like my sound to be smooth, not too bright. I don't want anything that will give me "Listener fatigue". I have a "cheap" Jensen Power 760.4 (75x4) amp that I plan on using. I had a Jenson in the past and it did a good job running the Vega comps. 

I'm currently looking at:
DLS Reference UR6S
ID CXS64 V.2
DLS R6.2
ID CTX65CS
Focal 165 VB POLYGLASS (and whatever else, up to $350)
DLS UP6i
DLS RM6.2 
RAINBOW SLX 265 (and whatever else, up to $350)
I have also contacted Hybrid Audio to see what they have. The closest dealer to me is 3 hours away. They gave me a contact in Missouri who I will call on Monday to see what products they offer in the price range I'm looking.

Are there any speakers in my list above that can be "ruled out" because they are known to have overly "bright" tweeters? I like my music to be clear and defined, but I don't want to feel like my speakers are YELLING at me, if you know what I mean.

Is there anything else in the $300-350 range that someone would like to recommend? I know the speakers I listed are anywhere from $150 to $350... so If we can keep the price within that it would be great.
Right now I'm just gathering information.... so the let me know what you think.

Thanks


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

check out the demo special thread in the classifieds..some really nice pricing on a pair arc 6.2's.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Focal are known to have pretty bright tweeters. if you dont like that, then I wouldnt go with them.

My vote goes to the IDs. nice sounding woofer, very dynamic and the tweeter has a nice smooth, natural sound.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

minbari said:


> Focal are known to have pretty bright tweeters. if you dont like that, then I wouldnt go with them.
> 
> My vote goes to the IDs. nice sounding woofer, very dynamic and the tweeter has a nice smooth, natural sound.


Removing the Focals from my list.... tweets are too bright/harsh
I have 1 vote for ID's, though not sure which ones (CXS64 V.2 or CTX65CS?)

I'm currently looking at:
DLS Reference UR6S
ID CXS64 V.2
DLS R6.2
ID CTX65CS
DLS UP6i
DLS RM6.2 
RAINBOW SLX 265 (and whatever else, up to $350)
I have also contacted Hybrid Audio to see what they have. The closest dealer to me is 3 hours away. They gave me a contact in Missouri who I will call on Monday to see what products they offer in the price range I'm looking.

UPDATE: Talked to a sales rep from HAT, they are going to bring some speakers that are within my budget to a local audio shop here in Wichita so I can listen to them.... now THAT's customer service


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

wichitadisciple said:


> Removing the Focals from my list.... tweets are too bright/harsh
> I have 1 vote for ID's, though not sure which ones (CXS64 V.2 or CTX65CS?)
> 
> I'm currently looking at:
> ...


CXS for sure. They share the the same tweeter as the XS series.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

minbari said:


> CXS for sure. They share the the same tweeter as the XS series.


For the sake of progress, removing the CTX65CS from the list. Also removing the DLS R6.2... the RM6.2 is supposed to be the better of the 2 (I think)

I'm currently looking at:
ID CXS64 V.2
DLS UP6i
DLS RM6.2 
RAINBOW SLX 265 (and whatever else, up to $350)
HAT (up to $350)

EDIT: Also going to remove the DLS Reference UR6S... they are old school high-end, so they are probably middle of the road now. The guy wants $225 for them.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

The Morel Virtus sounds like a good match for what you need.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

CrossFired said:


> The Morel Virtus sounds like a good match for what you need.


I just checked on the Morel Virtus 602's.... they are $560. Way out of my price range.
Unless you were speaking about a different model.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> check out the demo special thread in the classifieds..some really nice pricing on a pair arc 6.2's.


Do you have a link to this thread. I've tried looking for it but I might have gone to the wrong place.

I did find ARC AUDIO MOTO 6.2 for $325 ... are these only for motorcycles??


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

wichitadisciple said:


> Do you have a link to this thread. I've tried looking for it but I might have gone to the wrong place.
> 
> I did find ARC AUDIO MOTO 6.2 for $325 ... are these only for motorcycles??



here ya go..

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ets-sale-phass-hybrid-image-dynamics-arc.html


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

That puts Hybrid Audios imagine speakers in that price range. Personally have these and they sound phenomenal. Iv heard of the image dynamics but never heard them personally. Heard nothing but good reviews about them though.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> here ya go..
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ets-sale-phass-hybrid-image-dynamics-arc.html


Thanks for the link... there are 2 sets there that I would like to add to the list.

Image Dymanics XS65 - MSRP $599 - Demo Price $329
ARC Audio ARC 6.2 - MSRP $399 - Demo Price $249


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

JSM-FA5 said:


> That puts Hybrid Audios imagine speakers in that price range. Personally have these and they sound phenomenal. Iv heard of the image dynamics but never heard them personally. Heard nothing but good reviews about them though.


Yes, HAT is going to send some speakers to a local shop here in Wichita so I can go and listen to them... looking forward to that.

Like you, I've heard nothing but good things about the ID speakers. I've also heard nothing but good things about the DLS speakers, that's why the DLS are on my list.


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## BevoBlitzN (Sep 13, 2013)

There is a DLS 3-way set just posted in the classifieds- UP6i, 2.5 mid and ref tweet.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

wichitadisciple said:


> Thanks for the link... there are 2 sets there that I would like to add to the list.
> 
> Image Dymanics XS65 - MSRP $599 - Demo Price $329
> 
> ...


If you read the thread, the ID's are sold.

Down to the arc's and the Pass sets left.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

Well if you demo them on a wall they will not sound near as good as in a properly deadened door an tuned.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> If you read the thread, the ID's are sold.


That sucks!!!


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

JSM-FA5 said:


> Well if you demo them on a wall they will not sound near as good as in a properly deadened door an tuned.


True.... though it should give me a chance to examine the tweeters (hopefully)
Just to make sure they are smooth and don't sound like finger nails going down a chalkboard.

I having your doors "deadened" expensive? I remember back in the day when dynomat was the thing to get... what are the best products these days?

UPDATE:
ARC Audio ARC 6.2 - NEW PRICE $219 .... How good are ARC speakers? When I try to research I can only find info on the "Black" series
What are the tweeters like? Bright or Smooth? Do these have good base or are they lacking?
Any info would be great.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

forum boner JBL MS 62c's, you can get 2 pairs for 350 online...

then you can join the fan club.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

cajunner said:


> forum boner JBL MS 62c's, you can get 2 pairs for 350 online...
> 
> then you can join the fan club.


LMAO... no thank you :laugh:


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

JSM-FA5 said:


> That puts Hybrid Audios imagine speakers in that price range. Personally have these and they sound phenomenal. Iv heard of the image dynamics but never heard them personally. Heard nothing but good reviews about them though.


Vote here for the Imagines...

While some people call them a "forum boner", the HAT Imagines are indeed a very nice speaker and can be run component mode easily and effectively. In fact, I swear that in component mode, the woofer sounds better yet, while it may be my brain tricking me, I'll go with it


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

wichitadisciple said:


> Thanks for the link... there are 2 sets there that I would like to add to the list.
> 
> Image Dymanics XS65 - MSRP $599 - Demo Price $329
> ARC Audio ARC 6.2 - MSRP $399 - Demo Price $249


if you can get a set of XS65 for that price I would jump at it, personally. they really do sound amazing. higher than normal efficiency, so they need very little power to get loud, and they sound really good.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

minbari said:


> if you can get a set of XS65 for that price I would jump at it, personally. they really do sound amazing. higher than normal efficiency, so they need very little power to get loud, and they sound really good.


They have already been sold


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

If you're going to use active crossovers that allow to high pass the tweeter at 5KHz or more, then Hybrid Audio Imagine can sound good in this configuration. However, I didn't like their sound in the stock setup with the first order high pass filter on the tweeter. The HAT Unity come with the same woofer and nicer passive crossover, but cost $400 bucks.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

As far as deadening. Cld tiles are fairly cheap. Look up spunddeadenershowdown.com. Goo stuff their. I got a deal at a local shop on stinger Matt. Did 50% coverage on both doors. Turned out 20$ a door. 

As far as the tweeter. I was in the same boat you are, I hate bright tweeters. These seem to be perfect for me. I'm running them component. Never ran as coax. Also using the passive filter and they sound great. Granted they are amped though.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Don't sleep on DLS. If I'm not mistaken, the owner of Hybrid Audio ran DLS, prior to HAT's creation.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

bassfromspace said:


> Don't sleep on DLS. If I'm not mistaken, the owner of Hybrid Audio ran DLS, prior to HAT's creation.


Not sleeping on them at all... they are up at the top of my list so far. Up there with HAT and ID as of right now.


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## sunshinefc3s (Jun 23, 2010)

I was jut grappling with the same purchase...my choices were narrowed down to:

Phoenix Gold Elite.65cs
HAT Unity/Clarus
PHD FB 6.1 Pro
Ground Zero Uranium

All of these (except maybe the Clarus) are right within your budget if you call around to some dealers. Ignore the MSRP, thats just a guideline. 

I ended up choosing the PG Elites. While I don't think they are the best speaker on my list, I got a GREAT deal and I don't think the other speakers are superior enough to offset my savings. 

Check 'em out. 
-Alex


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

sunshinefc3s said:


> I was jut grappling with the same purchase...my choices were narrowed down to:
> 
> Phoenix Gold Elite.65cs
> HAT Unity/Clarus
> ...


I did check out the Phoenix Gold Elite.65cs today and they look really nice.
Best part is that there's a Phoenix Gold dealer 90 miles north of me... I will need to take a day off work to go up and listen.
I may need to add them to the list.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

OK, so here's my current list:

Phoenix Gold Elite.65cs
ID CXS64 V.2
DLS UP6i
Hybrid Audio Imagine or Unity
DLS RM6.2 

Has anyone ever listened to any of these speakers side-by-side?
Has anyone ever listened to DLS speakers? If so, what did you think of them?
Out of the speakers listed, which do you think will have the best SQ + Bass?

Speaking of bass, my Prelude has a 6x9 woofer in between the back seats.. it's currently blown, so I will need to make a new thread for that. Or I could just go straight SQ and just buy the comps up front with a sub in the trunk

I have a feeling that any of these will be a great choice.

Or I could always go with the JBL MS 62c's.... it's just that I've never really liked the brand, back in the '90's they were a joke... to me anyway.


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## 727south (Jul 21, 2009)

How about JL Audio c5? or Hertz HSK165?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

wichitadisciple said:


> OK, so here's my current list:
> 
> Phoenix Gold Elite.65cs
> ID CXS64 V.2
> ...


Don't you think if there was ONE speaker that had the best SQ and bass, that all the OTHER speaker companies would just go out of business?


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> Don't you think if there was ONE speaker that had the best SQ and bass, that all the OTHER speaker companies would just go out of business?


I only hoped it was that easy 
Though I did say... "out of my list" 

Does anyone have experience with Ground Zero Uranium, JL Audio c5 or Hertz HSK165? How are the tweeters on these? Do you know if they are smooth or on the bright side?

The Ground Zero Uranium look nice, what can you tell me about these?


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

people can throw suggestions to you all day long, but we really need more info. 

Are you limited to where your tweeters will be aimed?
Where will the mids be installed in relation to the tweets?
Do you have different install location options for the tweets? 
What is your ampllified power?
will you be running active or passive?


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## sunshinefc3s (Jun 23, 2010)

wichitadisciple said:


> The Ground Zero Uranium look nice, what can you tell me about these?


When I was searching, I had a lot of trouble coming up with good info on the GZUC set. GZ is just starting to come back into the US market, so not many people have these speakers. Check out the start of a review thread in the member review forum. Thats about the best info you will find on them ATM.
-a


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

theoldguy said:


> people can throw suggestions to you all day long, but we really need more info.
> 
> Are you limited to where your tweeters will be aimed?
> Where will the mids be installed in relation to the tweets?
> ...


I think the tweeters will be limited, there are factory locations but in my last prelude custom brackets were made, so they can be changed.

1 location for the tweeters
Amp is 75w x 4
Passive, if I want to power the rear speakers... active if I only power the comps


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

sunshinefc3s said:


> When I was searching, I had a lot of trouble coming up with good info on the GZUC set. GZ is just starting to come back into the US market, so not many people have these speakers. Check out the start of a review thread in the member review forum. Thats about the best info you will find on them ATM.
> -a


I finally found the review thread you were speaking about....
The speakers look very well made, so do the crossovers.

I'll be checking that thread out for updates, I would like to hear them in a car... but the soundboard test was good, even though the video was taken with a smartphone and I'm sure it didn't do the speakers any justice


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

DLS RM6.2 is a very sweet smooth sounding set with nice midbass. My top rec from your list.

Ive never seen those arc speakers before.

I would personally get these

The Madisound Speaker Store

They sound great.


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## 727south (Jul 21, 2009)

The Hertz HSK165 have very good sq but a bit on the bright side, how the C5 compared to the Hertz?


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2009)

BJ, if you work with a local dealer, have them contact me and I will speak to them about carrying the line. If they show any interest at all, I'll send them some Uranium comps to put on their sound board for you to listen too. At the moment that is the best I can do, short of just sending a set to you.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> BJ, if you work with a local dealer, have them contact me and I will speak to them about carrying the line. If they show any interest at all, I'll send them some Uranium comps to put on their sound board for you to listen too. At the moment that is the best I can do, short of just sending a set to you.


I wouldn't be opposed to that 

I'm going to a local shop today, HAT sent some speakers there for me to listen to.. I think they sent the Imagine and Unity. I remember he said the Unity's were $399, forgot how much they wanted for the Imagines.

Looking forward to hearing these, I've been told they were really good. Though at $400, I think I'll pass on the Unitys

@Brandon, I'll see if they are willing to talk to you about carrying GZ. I know they're a Focal, JL, Alpine and Memphis dealer. But I can ask.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

theoldguy said:


> people can throw suggestions to you all day long, but we really need more info.
> 
> Are you limited to where your tweeters will be aimed?
> Where will the mids be installed in relation to the tweets?
> ...


Love it when people ask for "MORE INFORMATION blah blah" then have nothing to add to the conversation.
But he's "theoldguy", he probably forget he posted on this thread.


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## sunshinefc3s (Jun 23, 2010)

wichitadisciple said:


> Looking forward to hearing these, I've been told they were really good. Though at $400, I think I'll pass on the Unitys


Thats MSRP. Thats not what you would end up paying.
-a


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

sunshinefc3s said:


> Thats MSRP. Thats not what you would end up paying.
> -a


I hope so, but the guy at the local shop sounded like he was going to charge $400 for them.

He said "The unitys are $399, they are a little out of your price range, are you sure you want me to hook them up so you can listen to them"

Sounds like he wants to charge me MSRP... at least to me it does.

If he tries, I'll just walk out of the shop


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

I ran the UP6i's for a few years, really liked their sound, very smooth & not fatiguing. Plus side is they sound terrific, great tweets, not at all fatiguing. Minus side is they're a little low on sensitivity and you have to watch that max power rating, if you crank them with too much power you'll get 'that smell'. But they do sound terrific. Of the 4 different sets (DLS, Focal, Infinity, Hertz) I've personally run, the DLS were my favorite sounding set.

Good luck with your choice.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

wichitadisciple said:


> I hope so, but the guy at the local shop sounded like he was going to charge $400 for them.
> 
> He said "The unitys are $399, they are a little out of your price range, are you sure you want me to hook them up so you can listen to them"
> 
> ...


Hybrid Audio speakers are sold at retail price. The only set that allows a discount to MAP is the Mirus line.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

12v Electronics said:


> Hybrid Audio speakers are sold at retail price. The only set that allows a discount to MAP is the Mirus line.


Thank you for that information... kept me from walking out of the shop looking like a *******.

I've gone to the local shop twice now to listen to the HA Imagine and Unity.
Each time I went the right side of the comp wall was not working...only 1 set was working and that was the Pioneer Premiers TS-C720PRS
they have (not impressed), I've never really liked Pioneer products.

I listened to the Imagines, they sound OK... they sound more like something I would put in the rear... not up front.

Going to call them around noon today and they are going to move the HAT Unity from their current position to where the Pioneers are, since we know they will work there.

This is going to be difficult for me since I'm used to my reference level home theater setup... I need to dial my expectations down a bit.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

ramonesfan said:


> I ran the UP6i's for a few years, really liked their sound, very smooth & not fatiguing. Plus side is they sound terrific, great tweets, not at all fatiguing. Minus side is they're a little low on sensitivity and you have to watch that max power rating, if you crank them with too much power you'll get 'that smell'. But they do sound terrific. Of the 4 different sets (DLS, Focal, Infinity, Hertz) I've personally run, the DLS were my favorite sounding set.
> 
> Good luck with your choice.


I heard that the UR and UP series lack midbass... did you find that to be true with your speakers?


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2009)

wichitadisciple said:


> Thank you for that information... kept me from walking out of the shop looking like a *******.
> 
> I've gone to the local shop twice now to listen to the HA Imagine and Unity.
> Each time I went the right side of the comp wall was not working...only 1 set was working and that was the Pioneer Premiers TS-C720PRS
> ...



My offer still stands to send a set to a local retailer for your listening.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> My offer still stands to send a set to a local retailer for your listening.


Hello Brandon, I just sent you a message regarding that


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## sunshinefc3s (Jun 23, 2010)

12v Electronics said:


> Hybrid Audio speakers are sold at retail price. The only set that allows a discount to MAP is the Mirus line.


That has not been my experience.
-a


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Just an update on my progress, here's my current list

Phoenix Gold Elite.65cs = $225
ID CXS64 V.2 = $300
DLS UP6i = $355
DLS RM6.2 = $235
Morel VIRTUS 602 = $350
Ground Zero GZUC650SQ = $345

At the prices listed above, which is the best bang for my buck? Do any of them jump out as being a great deal?


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2009)

Hmmm ?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

DLS RM6.2 = $235

prefer them to the up6i

i have not heard the ground zeros


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

My Xs65's are for sale for $300 shipped. only selling to get the xs69's. would be a great choice for you.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Well everyone, I've made my decision...

Thank you kizz ! I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on those XS65's... I've heard nothing but fantastic things about them!!

How much power do you suggest I give to them? I don't plan on running active yet, need to save the money for a good DSP first. I have a 4x75w Jenson amp.... but going to get a different amp.
Looking at the RF P500X4D, RF R400-4D or JBL MS-A1004.... anything else you would suggest, since you know how much power these speakers like? (Keep in mind, I would hate to spend more on an amp then I spent on the speakers... lol)


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

I would suggest anywhere up to 200watts rms. I had 150 available for them and it worked well. They are efficient so even 75 watts would do fine. I don't know that I would use a Jensen amp though.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

kizz said:


> I would suggest anywhere up to 200watts rms. I had 150 available for them and it worked well. They are efficient so even 75 watts would do fine. I don't know that I would use a Jensen amp though.


I agree.. I bought the Jenson when I was looking at $120 comp speakers. These deserve better!!
BTW, Are RF or JBL amps any good? As in, do they do a clean job at amplifying signals AND do they actually produce as much power as they advertise?


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## vivmike (May 24, 2013)

Get better amps than RF and JBL.

I really like the Zapco Z series.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

vivmike said:


> Get better amps than RF and JBL.
> 
> I really like the Zapco Z series.


I was looking at older Zapco amps... I don't have the money to buy a newer $700-$1000 amp.

Checking out some old school SQ amps:
US Amps, Audio Art, Linear Power, PPI Art, Phoenix Gold M and XS series, Orion XTR series... stuff like that.


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## vivmike (May 24, 2013)

wichitadisciple said:


> I was looking at older Zapco amps... I don't have the money to buy a newer $700-$1000 amp.
> 
> Checking out some old school SQ amps:
> US Amps, Audio Art, Linear Power, PPI Art, Phoenix Gold M and XS series, Orion XTR series... stuff like that.


I wouldn't pay that either, lol.

I just bought 2, like new, Z150.2's for near the price of one. 

The used stuff on here is just as good as new.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

vivmike said:


> I wouldn't pay that either, lol.
> 
> I just bought 2, like new, Z150.2's for near the price of one.
> 
> The used stuff on here is just as good as new.


I'm still not sure how I want to install this stuff...
1. Passive + rear coaxial for backfill + 10" sub
2. Passive + no rears + 10" sub
3. Active + rear coaxial for backfill + 10" sub
4. Active + no rears + 10" sub

That means I'll need anywhere from 3 channels to 7 channels.
A new Zapco Z-150.2 is $500... so not going there!!

Looking at a Zapco I-2100 iForce... it's 2x100w, which would work if I ran passive comps.
If I run active, I'll need a 4 channel amp and the price goes up for less power.
There's the ZAPCO ST-4X (4x60w) for $170 on ebay

How about going down a level from Zapco... in quality and price.
What brands of amps are below the Zapco BUT above the RF and JBL I mentioned earlier.

Sorry for all the amp questions.... but I bought a fricken Jenson for crap sake, help me out :laugh:
As you can tell, I've been out of car audio since the late 90's and trying to learn


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I have been really happy with my older JL slash series. well made, dont get hot.

older soundstream and PG are good too.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

I checked the new head unit I just bought... it was cheap... I only wanted it for radio and to play MP3 CD's, none of that iphone/Bluetooth stuff because I'll NEVER use it.

Issue I found, my head unit only has 1 RCA output... does that mean I can only run 1 amp? Or can you daisy chain RCA cables from amp to amp?


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

minbari said:


> I have been really happy with my older JL slash series. well made, dont get hot.
> 
> older soundstream and PG are good too.


Thank you for the suggestions... the search continues

How are the newer PG amps? Are they cheap junk these days. I'm asking because I found a Phoenix Gold Ryval V754 that is probably better than the Jenson I have.


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

Woofersetc has some PG Xenon amps at a decent price, iirc. Those were nice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

BEAVER said:


> Woofersetc has some PG Xenon amps at a decent price, iirc. Those were nice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you know anything about the PHOENIX GOLD V754 RYVAL amps


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Or you can get this

WoofersEtc.com - FD 2200 - ARC Audio 2 Channel 370 Watt Amplifier

I'd personally look for a zapco ref 350.2 like this, best bang for buck especially if you use symbilink

Zapco AG350 2 Channel Car Amplifier Fully Tested and Works Great USA Made 350200141714 | eBay

Also I have a bnib sony gs 4 channel bridged gives 240x2 

I also have a slightly used rf t400.2 150x2/525x1 for 150+ shipping

this guy

Rockford Fosgate Power T400-2 2-channel car amplifier 120 watts x 2 at Crutchfield.com

or an aura rpm 2150 would drive the hell out of those speakers and sound clean too. I got one of those as well.

This is a gem too. A lil tape and some appliance white rattlecan and you shiny again

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIO-ART-2...4677407?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item3a8aacb49f


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> Or you can get this
> 
> WoofersEtc.com - FD 2200 - ARC Audio 2 Channel 370 Watt Amplifier
> 
> ...


Thanks for the ton of information.... awesome!

I was looking at the manual for the Zapco AG350 and it says that I can run a 3 Channel Passive system with this amp... 2x100w AND 1x350w... That would run my comps in passive mode and give 350w for a sub.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Not exactly, you would need to run a passive crossover to lowpass the subs and high pass the mids.

Honestly. This is the best deal youll come across, hop on it

Sony XM2100G Mobile ES 2 Channel Car Amplifier Fully Tested Made in Japan | eBay

If you wan a 3 channel, look for 4 channel amps.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> Not exactly, you would need to run a passive crossover to lowpass the subs and high pass the mids.
> 
> Honestly. This is the best deal youll come across, hop on it
> 
> ...


So this Sony is better than the Audio Art and Zapco AG350?

Right now, I'll run passive and get a 2 channel for the comps and Mono for the sub.. Still not sure if I should get speakers for the rear deck or not, I've heard mixed reviews

BTW.. how do you like your Ground Zero Hydrogen 8"?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

The sony ES g100 is a phenomenal amp. Its dual mono. Zapco or the sony you cant go wrong. The sony is more powerful. I used to run them exclusively.

love the gz 8


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> The sony ES g100 is a phenomenal amp. Its dual mono. Zapco or the sony you cant go wrong. The sony is more powerful. I used to run them exclusively.
> 
> love the gz 8


Just bought the Sony XM2100G Mobile ES ... now I get to sell this crappy Jenson... LOL

Glad you like the GZ. Looking for a 10" sub and trying to decide between the JBL W10GTi- MkII , IDMAX 10", IDv4 10" or GZ 10" .... I just think the JBL and IDMAX might be too much, not sure though


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

wichitadisciple said:


> Just bought the Sony XM2100G Mobile ES ... now I get to sell this crappy Jenson... LOL
> 
> Glad you like the GZ. Looking for a 10" sub and trying to decide between the JBL W10GTi- MkII , IDMAX 10", IDv4 10" or GZ 10" .... I just think the JBL and IDMAX might be too much, not sure though


Good purchase. If you decide to go active that sony is a great sub amp too.

Out of your choices, jbl GTI. Im not sure what the gz costs but its a great sub. also consider sundown if youre looking for bang for buck


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Does soundstream still make good amps, or is the newer stuff cheap junk?

I found this SOUNDSTREAM DTR4.680
New Soundstream DTR4 680 680W 4 Channel Car Audio Amplifier Power Amp Stereo 709483040731 | eBay
I would like to find a 2nd amp... probably going to power my sub with the Sony.
Would be nice to find a true 4x100w amp at a good price (for my comps + the option to run rear deck speakers) I may have to look at more old school amps to find a nice 4 channel in my price range.

Anyhow, just wondering if that SS amp is junk or passable for now.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

I think I'm going to get a Soundstream REF4.760 for my comps + rear deck speakers.
New Soundstream REF4 760 760 Watt 4 Channel Class A B Car Power Amplifier Amp 709483032354 | eBay

Will probably get these for rear fill
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121132878874?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It looks like a nice amp, and I've read good reviews on it.
I have the Sony XM2100G Mobile ES now, I'm planning on bridging it and having it power my sub.

I'm looking at the JBL W10GTi- MkII .... Dual 6 ohm, so this thing has 12 ohms of resistance? Sounds like it will take a lot of power to run this thing.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

the soundstream is a nice amp, but i don't think the sony es is going to have enough power for that JBL. So you might want to reconsider one or the other.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> the soundstream is a nice amp, but i don't think the sony es is going to have enough power for that JBL. So you might want to reconsider one or the other.


I was thinking the same thing:
It comes down to ... do I want rear fill? 
If I do, then I'll have to make some changes. Won't be able to use the Sony.
If not, I can use the Sony for my comps and buy another amp for the JBL.
OR, pick a different sub that the Sony can power. I think the Sony puts out 350w when bridged, I'm not sure if that's enough to power most 10" subs.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

wichitadisciple said:


> I have the Sony XM2100G Mobile ES now, I'm planning on bridging it and having it power my sub.
> 
> I'm looking at the JBL W10GTi- MkII .... Dual 6 ohm, so this thing has 12 ohms of resistance? Sounds like it will take a lot of power to run this thing.


You can run the coils in parallel for a 3 ohm nominal impedance. The amp should be good for 400 watt bridged into 4 ohms: Google Translate


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

The Dude said:


> You can run the coils in parallel for a 3 ohm nominal impedance. The amp should be good for 400 watt bridged into 4 ohms: Google Translate


So at 3 ohms, that should put me around ~480 watts?
You have these speakers, would that be enough power? I don't want to have to turn the gain all the way up and ruin the woofer via distortion.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

wichitadisciple said:


> So at 3 ohms, that should put me around ~480 watts?
> You have these speakers, would that be enough power? I don't want to have to turn the gain all the way up and ruin the woofer via distortion.


Sorry, I do not run the GTI's, I run the Power series, I cannot comment on how much power the GTI's will need to run properly. I am sure the others will weigh in on this.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Also, I agree that while the sony will give about 400-450 watts at 3 ohms. I would strongly suggest a different sub that excels at that wattage and is a 4 ohm load.

The JBL power series would be perfect if you can find them.

this sub is a great sounding sub. I suggest it. It would be perfect with the sony.

Arc Audio 12D2 V3 Audiophile 12" Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer | eBay

Consider running rears off the deck power so you can fade them on and off. Rears dont need lots of power.

Also if you want another sony 2100g I have one for matching amps.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

I wonder if that Sony would handle a 2 ohm mono load, or if that might be too much for it? I have a Power Series P1024 (Dual 4 ohm) sitting here unused.....


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

The Dude said:


> I wonder if that Sony would handle a 2 ohm mono load, or if that might be too much for it? I have a Power Series P1024 (Dual 4 ohm) sitting here unused.....


The sony is one ohm stable so yes it can handle a 2 ohm mono load but it gets very hot. Ive done it for a few months but when it started overheat from being driven to hard at 1 ohm, I swapped subs. Never burnt out or damaged it but its better to use a 4 ohm sub and have tons of headroom.

Keep the sony es on the front

Buy this sony GS mono (solid amp trust me), unreal price

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SONY-XM...3020370?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item43c0891dd2

and buy his jbl power sub and youll be solid. Or get the arc 12 and use the sony as a sub amp (kinda a waste not to run it on your fronts imo). Both are great subs.

BTW, I also have the Sony gs 4 channel bnib if you want matching amps 80x4/240x2 Id trade for the 2100g

These GS lines are very well made amps. Best sony amps since big red es.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

You can knock out a couple steps by just bidding on this for 100 and using or selling the kenwood. Not a bad amp just dont like the looks imo.

JBL Pro 10" Subwoofer in SEALED Enclosure with Kenwood Excelon Amplifier | eBay

This lil amp will also power a 10" gti if you still want to go that route

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Kenwood...1474163?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item58ab5321f3

If I was you, Id do the sony es on the id xs65s. that will give them 135 watts x2 or so and very clean.

and then get a mono amp like the kenwood or the sony gs and power a 10" jbl gti or the arc audio sub.

Rears off headunit power. I personally dont use them at all and dont recommend you do either but I have a set of coaxials hooked up off deck power if i have passengers and its all you need.

sony es and a mono amp


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

I just got the xs65's today, very nice. I like the woofer cones, some kind of fabric/cloth material. I'm looking forward to having these installed.

I plan on using the Sony ES on the xs65's. My 1993 Honda Prelude has a compact interior so I don't really "need" rear speakers, the back seats are too small for an adult to sit in.

So I will need a sub... trying to decide on what to do about that. Looking for a SQ sub that's 'musical'. I would think that both the JBL and Arc qualify for that. I do however like the fact that the 12" (should) dig deeper. 12" subs are my favorite, I think they are perfect. Only issue is that I don't want to rattle my car to pieces.

I've always been a bass head, but as I'm getting older (34, I'm ancient) I've been moving more towards SQ. I caught the home theater bug a couple years ago so now I compare everything to my Paradigm Studio 60's, Studio CC-590 and SVS subs.... which isn't fair.

I haven't done much research on SQ subs, brands, 10" vs 12", sealed vs ported... etc
I do know most say that sealed boxes (in general) are best for SQ, though I have always had ported.

I could always say "Screw It" and get a Cerwin Vega Stroker and blow my car to tiny bits!!

EDIT: I think I'm looking for a SQ/SPL sub.... I want the sub to blend in well, almost to the point where you don't realize you have a sub.... but also, I would like the sub to be able to get loud for those days when I want to listen to Sir Mix-A-Lot's "Baby Got Back"... lol


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Lots of sub fall into that catagory.

Jbl gti mkII
ID idmax
Arc black
Dayton reference 
Jl w6

Think you will like the xs series. Very snappy midbass and the sensitivity is nice when you dont have alot of power

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## 82cj8 (Jan 21, 2011)

Audiomobile 12


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

minbari said:


> Lots of sub fall into that catagory.
> 
> Jbl gti mkII
> ID idmax
> ...


I figured that a lot of subs would fall into the sq/spl category. I would like a sub that keeps most of its SQ when you turn it up. I don't think I'm asking too much in this. 
Thanks for the list of subs, it will give me a place to begin research. I was already checking out the IDMAX and JBL so it tells me I was on the right track.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

wichitadisciple said:


> I figured that a lot of subs would fall into the sq/spl category. I would like a sub that keeps most of its SQ when you turn it up. I don't think I'm asking too much in this.
> Thanks for the list of subs, it will give me a place to begin research. I was already checking out the IDMAX and JBL so it tells me I was on the right track.


Ya know, stay away from dayton ref. Theyre not as good as the new Dayton Titanics in the car.

Im pretty sure youd be happy with that single arc 12 (esp ported) but all those subs will work out fine. I also would like the audiomobile or the w6 or the gti.

Id max is a nice choice as well. So is Sundown SD, Ground Zero Hydrogen. All of those choices will work out fine. Just get the right amp for the sub you choose.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

I started my research of the brands mentioned... only been able to look at a couple so far.

The audiomobile looks to be real nice, I've found some write-ups on them and they are all very positive... only issue, where would I get one? Can't find a website.

I found some JL Audio 10W6v2-D4 and 12w6's on ebay... I've heard good things about these also, they were one of the best back in the 90's. I do have a prejudice against them though... when I went to my local shop to listen to the Hybrid Audio comps, the dealer would only setup the Imagines and not the Unitys... then he went and tried to sell me some Apline, JL, Focal and Pioneer comps, telling me that all of them were better than the HAT's. 

I've also sent in an inquiry to GZ asking for prices on the 10" and 12" hydrogen subs

So far it looks like ~$250 average price for a 10" across all brands.

The IDMAX 10" is about $350, so I'll probably stay away from that one. The Arc Black are also on the expensive end.

The Sundown SD's are the cheapest of the bunch.

Still researching


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

wichitadisciple said:


> I checked the new head unit I just bought... it was cheap... I only wanted it for radio and to play MP3 CD's, none of that iphone/Bluetooth stuff because I'll NEVER use it.
> 
> Issue I found, my head unit only has 1 RCA output... does that mean I can only run 1 amp? Or can you daisy chain RCA cables from amp to amp?


i'd get some kind of sound processor/xover if you plan on going multiple amps


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Horsemanwill said:


> i'd get some kind of sound processor/xover if you plan on going multiple amps


You talking about a JBL MS-8, Cleansweep, miniDSP or ALPINE PXE-H660?


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

if your using an aftermarket hu then something like the minidsp, arc 8, ac dqxs. you don't need the summing part of the ms8 or the cleensweep. but being able to direct the right frequency to the right amp then the speaker is what will be needed.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

I think I'm going to go with the JBL W10GTi- MkII... nothing but great reviews on it. And for $260 I don't think I'll find a better sub for the price.

I was looking at the box for this. I was able to find a diagram on how to build a sealed box for this... still not sure if I'll go sealed or ported.
building a box for a jbl W10GTi MkII - Subwoofers / Enclosures - SMD Forum

The ARC AUDIO 12D2 V3 also looks tempting... Just thinking of what I can do with the extra $150


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

i have 2 of the w12gti's they sound awesome. i have mine in a 3 cube box each getting 1.5 sealed ran bridged off two channels of my tru billet 6


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Horsemanwill said:


> if your using an aftermarket hu then something like the minidsp, arc 8, ac dqxs. you don't need the summing part of the ms8 or the cleensweep. but being able to direct the right frequency to the right amp then the speaker is what will be needed.


Would something like this work?
AudioControl EQX 2yr Wrnty Audio Control EQX Trunk Mount Equalizer Crossover | eBay

Or a RF 3Sixty.1


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

the 360.1 is a bit old. you could maybe buy a new hu like the pioneer 80prs it has hi mid low capability or front rear sub. its' been said to have a decent xover eq in it. or just go balls out and get a p99rs


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Horsemanwill said:


> the 360.1 is a bit old. you could maybe buy a new hu like the pioneer 80prs it has hi mid low capability or front rear sub. its' been said to have a decent xover eq in it. or just go balls out and get a p99rs


The 80prs has w/ Bluetooth, Pandora USB/MP3/iPod .... a bunch of crap that I'll never use.
Do you know of a head unit with a decent crossover that doesn't have all the extra stuff?

I bought a Kenwood KDC-152 ... it has all the features that I will use, not sure if it has a xover eq in it.
Here's a video with it's features: Kenwood KDC-152 CD receiver at Crutchfield.com


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## Mike Bober (Apr 11, 2013)

it all comes down to your person taste of sound and nobody can tell you what sounds good or best because everyones hearing and sound preference is different....almost any speaker on your list is a good choice, you just have to judge sound on them yourself after doing all you can to make them sound the best they can in YOUR cars environment. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

usually when you start getting into the one's with the decent xover/eq in them they are gonna have that other stuff too. if ur set on the no frills then just add a processor to your current. there's a 4to6 here

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/159445-fs-mosconi-amps-processor.html


more about it here

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...iscussion/147933-mosconi-gladen-dsp-4to6.html


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Get an audiocontrol 2xs or 24xs or a diff headunit and the one rca output will be fine 

the 24eqs you posted is great piece and would solve your problems and add lots of eq but pretty much any headunit with 2 or 3 preamp outputs will have crossovers. Even under 150 theres tons to choose from. So if you wanna change the deck, thats an option. 

I installed that kenwood in my friends car. Simple and easy to use but lacking in features. 

So a new deck or add a processor or an analog audiocontrol crossover/eqs

I think you should get a deck that has time alignment and crossovers. Makes a huge difference. Sony, Kenwood, JVC, Clarion, Pioneer all have decks in the 150 area with these features.

Get the arc sub and spend the extra 150 on a new deck imo

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_61374_Sony-CDX-GS500R.html

has all you need and on sale.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

If you get this amp, it has eq, crossovers and time alignment on all channels and even has eq on the output. so the one rca isnt an issue, this amp is a processor and a great amp. It only needs one input, and youll be able eq your sub amp through this amp. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/154742-kenwood-excelon-x4r.html

This is the amp I have used the past 6 years. Such great amps. power is like 135x4/375x2

You had to get another amp anyway so why not add this and power the fronts (bi amp/active the fronts or power fronts and sub)with it and/or use the output on the kenwood to fine tune the bass on the sony amp with an arc 12 or idq v2 tuned to 30 hz. Thats the best solution for the bucks.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> If you get this amp, it has eq, crossovers and time alignment on all channels and even has eq on the output. so the one rca isnt an issue, this amp is a processor and a great amp. It only needs one input, and youll be able eq your sub amp through this amp.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/154742-kenwood-excelon-x4r.html
> 
> ...


Can I bridge the 2x375w into 1 channel? How much power does it have at 4 ohms?

So with this amp, I can keep my current HU, power my comps and then use the Sony to power the sub?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

wichitadisciple said:


> Can I bridge the 2x375w into 1 channel? How much power does it have at 4 ohms?
> 
> So with this amp, I can keep my current HU, power my comps and then use the Sony to power the sub?


Yes. and you get a parametric eq/delay/xovers/phase on every channel including the line out (sony)

Its rated 100x4 and/or 300x2 at 4 ohms but its a bit under rated.

Check it out
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/31936-review-kenwood-x4r.html

Its a great amp. Get it. Ill help you set the allignment/delay. 

In my install I used this amp to power my sub and front components. Its all you need really. But I went active so I could use the Id xs69 so I added a sub amp, the zapco 500.1 but I may also try my sony es 2100g on my sub. Well have matching amps. 

But def get it.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> Yes. and you get a parametric eq/delay/xovers/phase on every channel including the line out (sony)
> 
> Its rated 100x4 and/or 300x2 at 4 ohms but its a bit under rated.
> 
> ...


I've contacted the seller about it, haven't bought it yet though.

However, I did buy the ARC AUDIO 12D2 V3 ... I think it will work well for me, and with the money I saved I'll have more to spend elsewhere. Probably on the box I have to build for it.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Good job. Get that amp trust me

The sony will power that arc 12 perfectly if you use it for that


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I would say it is cheaper to buy an HU that has a good DSP or crossovers, and like it was mentioned already, what basic HU these days that has advanced audio features does not have an iPod controller, 6 channels and high voltage RCA,s? it does not make sense to have fronts that retail for more than $450, a $250 sub a $400 amplifier running from a 2 ch RCA head unit with probably 2 volt RCA's, like with almost all electronics and computers, there will be always things we do not plan to use that are part of the package and we will not get A if we do not want C.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> I would say it is cheaper to buy an HU that has a good DSP or crossovers, and like it was mentioned already, what basic HU these days that has advanced audio features does not have an iPod controller, 6 channels and high voltage RCA,s? it does not make sense to have fronts that retail for more than $450, a $250 sub a $400 amplifier running from a 2 ch RCA head unit with probably 2 volt RCA's, like with almost all electronics and computers, there will be always things we do not plan to use that are part of the package and we will not get A if we do not want C.


What exact features am I looking for in this HU? I have yet to find a HU that says it has "DSP" . Could you link to an example head unit? Thanks


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

This thread went in all directions after wanting just speakers, glad you went with those xs65 
Id's.

DSP is just a term used when having a broad range of crossover settings with different slopes processed in a digital way, or also called active passing, its pre amplified filtering, it is too complicated to jump into it no knowing where to set them, sometimes it is better to stick to a fixed passive pass.

If you get any HU with 6 channels and 4 volts or more RCA's you will get the best sound from your speakers, amps and sub with just simple passive passing and no a lot to learn and worry about.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> This thread went in all directions after wanting just speakers, glad you went with those xs65
> Id's.
> 
> DSP is just a term used when having a broad range of crossover settings with different slopes processed in a digital way, or also called active passing, its pre amplified filtering, it is too complicated to jump into it no knowing where to set them, sometimes it is better to stick to a fixed passive pass.
> ...


You're right, this thread has gone in all directions. I just felt it was best to keep all my questions in 1 thread instead of starting 7 others.. all asking about my setup.

I'm also glad that I was able to find such a great deal on the xs65's.... I got much more than what I expected when I first started this thread.

I think that tyroneshoes linked to the best HU for the price. I checked out Kenwood and their 6 channel with 5 volt preouts are $800 or more.
The Sony is less than $90... anything about the Sony that won't work for what I'm doing?
Sony CDX-GS500R MP3/USB Car Stereo w/ iPod App Remote, Pandora
I've never been much of a Sony fan, but if it has everything I need for a great price, I can live with it 

I agree about keeping it simple... for now, I just don't have the $$ to get crazy with all this. I've had to set stuff like this up before, in my home theater. I do know about high/low pass filters and the like. What also helped me with my home theater is that my AVR has Audyssey calibration.... I just set my HP/LP filters and ran Audyssey, it did the rest. 

My current car speakers are 21 years old and they must go... that is my main goal for now. Even my 5 & 7 year old kids tell me the speakers sound horrible.

Thank You to everyone who has helped me to this point.


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

I have an inexpensive active head-unit that I'm going to list in the classified later today. It's a JVC KD-SH1000. Works great and comes with an iPod adapter... $150... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

BEAVER said:


> I have an inexpensive active head-unit that I'm going to list in the classified later today. It's a JVC KD-SH1000. Works great and comes with an iPod adapter... $150...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now that's tempting.... will you take less if I don't want the ipod adaptor (I have a Zune)


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Never been impressed with sony hus. Cheaply made and dont sound very nice

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

wichitadisciple said:


> Now that's tempting.... will you take less if I don't want the ipod adaptor (I have a Zune)


Definitely not going to separate the two. I'd never be abe to sell the iPod controller on it's own. Here it is though, if you're interested...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...724-***-inexpensive-active-head-unit-***.html


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

oops... double post...


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

get the x4r or get the jvc deck.

both have dsp but you can adjust the jvc while driving and you get better and more preouts.

Sonys do not sound bad at all. You have 3 5v preouts with crossovers, delay, usb inputs, ipod control, 6 band eq for $88. cant beat that

but the jvc is a better unit


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

You need 6 channels, at least an EQ 3 bands is OK if parametric (making it like 9 since each band has 3 settings)

Any HU from the last 5 to 6 years that has a USB input will likely have ipod integration, the USB port can be used with a flash drive, you can put over 1000 songs on a 32gb flash drive and as far as SQ that will be preferred over any MP3 player played through the AUX port of any HU.

Blue Tooth is also a nice feature because you can have music played from your phone wireless digital CD quality sound, you can skip tracks on the HU, not read them but you or another person will have control of the music on the phone once paired, my HU has 4 devices paired 2 phones and 2 ipads, takes less than 10 secs to connect to any of them with the HU. HD radio, another thing to consider if your area or city has many stations, the sound is significantly superior compared to FM, and AM is also supported for HD with many stations at least with my HU, I have a separate HD that goes with the Head Unit together.


The most reliable HU's are in any order, Alpine, JVC (makes kenwood) Kenwood, Pioneer, Clarion.


Another thing once you go active, you loose the rear speakers, if you have passengers and the rears are in a good location, the rear fill may be something you do not want to give up. A good set up would be give at least 100 watts to your fronts using the passive xovers, have rear fill by having the HU driving them, have your 5th and 6th ch for the sub, then you fade the rears when you have no passengers for the best separation and stage.

Some HU's may not have active crossovers or quality DSP's but have Digital time Delay, that is also tricky to learn and set in a car if you have not played with one yet, and you may also have to give up 2 channels (rears to use it)

What amps do you have so far? sorry kind of lost track of the choices and options going back and forth.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> You need 6 channels, at least an EQ 3 bands is OK if parametric (making it like 9 since each band has 3 settings)
> 
> Any HU from the last 5 to 6 years that has a USB input will likely have ipod integration, the USB port can be used with a flash drive, you can put over 1000 songs on a 32gb flash drive and as far as SQ that will be preferred over any MP3 player played through the AUX port of any HU.
> 
> ...


I currently only have 1 amp worth mentioning... Sony XM2100G Mobile ES, 2 Channel


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Okay, so far you can hook up your 2 ch HU your 2 channel amp to the ID xs65, you would need 2 more channels for another mono amp and sub.
Maybe a 4 ch Hu or six channels as I mentioned before to be able to have rear fill, bi amping for the fronts in the future.
I would not attempt to go after an active set up now, your ID and passives will give you clean good sound with that power. Maybe put the extra money on deadening the doors. The other features BT, HD are nice and convenient to have.

Ported or sealed box for the Sub?


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> Okay, so far you can hook up your 2 ch HU your 2 channel amp to the ID xs65, you would need 2 more channels for another mono amp and sub.
> Maybe a 4 ch Hu or six channels as I mentioned before to be able to have rear fill, bi amping for the fronts in the future.
> I would not attempt to go after an active set up now, your ID and passives will give you clean good sound with that power. Maybe put the extra money on deadening the doors. The other features BT, HD are nice and convenient to have.
> 
> Ported or sealed box for the Sub?


I'm currently looking into getting a different head unit... crutchfield says all the clarion head units won't fit.. so looking at Kenwood exelon and Pioneer.

My trunk is small, so thinking about going with a sealed box


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

OK, then. you need an amp that will be a good match for the sub you plan to use. If you get an expensive Sub you will need an expensive powerful amp, unless you can and want to spend more on those items.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> OK, then. you need an amp that will be a good match for the sub you plan to use. If you get an expensive Sub you will need an expensive powerful amp, unless you can and want to spend more on those items.


I already bought an ARC AUDIO 12D2 V3... Optimum sealed enclosure: 0.90 cuft, though I've read about people putting these in 1.1 cuft enclosures and having better success.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

wichitadisciple said:


> I already bought an ARC AUDIO 12D2 V3... Optimum sealed enclosure: 0.90 cuft, though I've read about people putting these in 1.1 cuft enclosures and having better success.


I stand by getting the x4r if you dont get the jvc or active inexpensive clarion. It has all the dsp you need to do active, 5 band pq on each channel, crossovers, delay in .1 ms each channel, good clean power. This amp will work with whatever headunit you want/like. But yeah get 3 rca outs on any deck.

The sony should power the fronts but is also the perfect power for the arc so options are open. Hell if you want I have another 2100g.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

So I just bought the Kenwood Excelon X4R.... saving up for a HU. The one I currently have will work.... but planning on getting a new HU before I have anything installed.

Going to see how quickly I can come up with the money to get BEAVER's JVC KD-SH1000... hopefully it won't be gone by that time. If it is, bummer for me.

I'm kinda concerned if the X4R and JVC KD-SH1000 will fight with each other when it comes to tuning... or if they will play nice.

EDIT:
Speaking about my Sub (ARC AUDIO 12D2 V3) what kind of box do you guys recommend? Sealed or Ported?
I've found 2 prefab boxes.... I would make my own but don't have a table saw, I'm a perfectionist so without a table saw I won't take on this project.
http://www.belvaproducts.com/mdfs10-12.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777BB12150/Sound-Ordnance-Bass-Bunker.html

Also, the sub is 2 ohm.... I read somewhere that a 4 ohm sub should have better SQ than a 2 ohm sub, is there any validity to this?


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Question about the head units...
RCA voltage, would there be a large difference in SQ between a 2-volt pre-out vs a 4-volt pre-out?
I ask because there are some double DIN units out there that look nice but only have 2-volt pre-outs. 
I have a factory 6 disk changer in my trunk and the changers controller is above my current head unit. 
I was going to take out the 6 disk changer when I replaced the HU, which would leave a large gap. 
So an option is to get a double DIN. Or find a "cubby hole" insert to place under the HU.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I would not be too concerned about 2 volt RCA's if the media playing features is what is important to you. And if you add a DSP you have even less things to worry about using 2 volt RCA's


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## moparman79 (Jan 31, 2008)

I have a customer with the image dynamics Xs65 which he now really to sell after he listen to the ground zero uranium components. tweeter is much better in every phase compared to the Xs65. passive crossovers has more adjust ability better quality overall. I sell both and let the customer decide. They sell their selves every time.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Of those two enclosures you linked to, I would go with the 1.2 cubic foot sealed Belva. If you want to go ported, have a custom enclosure built. Arc recommends a 2 cf enclosure tuned to 26 Hz. That S.O. enclosure is 1.6 cf tuned to 34 Hz.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Yes, forget ported, yes ported is much better but based on the amps selected, none could drive the sub in a ported enclosure with good power and give it some protection for extra excursion. 

And forget a capable active HU also if one of the amps already has the DSP, EQ and DTA. Just need a basic cheap 6 ch HU with a basic LPF for the sub used in sealed enclosure. 

I hope at least we get some pictures of everything purchased and installed

this thread went way longer than most and got off topic. I am glad many members stepped in to help and give advice.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

wichitadisciple said:


> Question about the head units...
> RCA voltage, would there be a large difference in SQ between a 2-volt pre-out vs a 4-volt pre-out?
> I ask because there are some double DIN units out there that look nice but only have 2-volt pre-outs.
> I have a factory 6 disk changer in my trunk and the changers controller is above my current head unit.
> ...


Preamp voltage doesn't affect sound quality.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> Yes, forget ported, yes ported is much better but based on the amps selected, none could drive the sub in a ported enclosure with good power and give it some protection for extra excursion.
> 
> And forget a capable active HU also if one of the amps already has the DSP, EQ and DTA. Just need a basic cheap 6 ch HU with a basic LPF for the sub used in sealed enclosure.
> 
> ...


I can get you some pics of the gear I've purchased thus far.. the sub arrives tomorrow.

Considering swapping out the Sony amp for a more powerful mono amp, I would like to have some extra head room and not have to push the Sony to distortion.

As far as the topic, I'm the OP and can steer this thread in any direction I want to.... if the fact that I started the thread asking about comps (then bought comps), then went to amps (And I bought amps), then went to subs (then I bought a sub)... is an issue for you, that's fine. You have a right to your own opinion and to be frank.. I don't care.
I've already said I don't want to start a new thread for EVERY question I have about MY setup.... that pisses people off more than having 1 thread which contains all my questions. Thus far you've been the only person to make a comment about it.
I appreciate all the advice you've given me, but it's been twice now that you've provided advice and then bitched about me "going off topic" in my OWN thread. If it upsets you that much, I can do without your advice.

Thanks to everyone who's helping me in making these decisions, it's greatly appreciated.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

wichitadisciple said:


> I can get you some pics of the gear I've purchased thus far.. the sub arrives tomorrow.
> 
> Considering swapping out the Sony amp for a more powerful mono amp, I would like to have some extra head room and not have to push the Sony to distortion.
> 
> ...



To be honest with you the issue is not the topic, it is the direction and mind changing going on through the thread.

You decide to get something and get it, then ask questions about it, then change your mind about it and replace it. Today is about replacing the sony amp. It seems like the cycle continues. More than anything I was making a comment on how it went from just speakers to a complete system not complaining

You were told that Sony amp will have no issues driving that sub, why change it? why not use it try it out for a while and decide if you need to change it later? rather than spend more money. You were given good advice, simply follow it install it, use it and enjoy it.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> Yes, forget ported, yes ported is much better but based on the amps selected, none could drive the sub in a ported enclosure with good power and give it some protection for extra excursion.


It was yourself who has me second guessing my choice about the Sony amp.

I cant think of anything else that was suggested (and I purchased) that I've considered changing. I'm not understanding your cyclical comment. As normal, the more educated I become on a subject, my views start to change as do my goals.

I just want to get it right the first time.... not buy a bunch of stuff "see how it goes". If the sony doesn't have the power to run the Arc in a ported box... why pigeon hole myself?


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

customaudioman said:


> I have a customer with the image dynamics Xs65 which he now really to sell after he listen to the ground zero uranium components. tweeter is much better in every phase compared to the Xs65. passive crossovers has more adjust ability better quality overall. I sell both and let the customer decide. They sell their selves every time.


Glad you like the GZ's, when making my decision I didn't have the opportunity to listen to them before making a purchase. 
I could find very little info about them.
On the other hand I found a well of info on the xs65's and all was good.
I made the best choice I could based on the information available. 

I couldn't be happier with my decision!!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

The arc is 350 rms and the sony is 400 watts rms. The amp and sub will be both wired for 4 ohms (dual 2). The sony is the perfect amp to drive the arc sub sealed or ported. There is no need for more power or a dif amp. Youre good on amps and speakers.

Also you can choose not to use the kenwood x4r's dsp and use it as a reg amp if you want. Its all bypassible. Though you will probably want to use the eq and some stuff.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> The arc is 350 rms and the sony is 400 watts rms. The amp and sub will be both wired for 4 ohms (dual 2). The sony is the perfect amp to drive the arc sub sealed or ported. There is no need for more power or a dif amp. Youre good on amps and speakers.
> 
> Also you can choose not to use the kenwood x4r's dsp and use it as a reg amp if you want. Its all bypassible. Though you will probably want to use the eq and some stuff.


Fantastic!! All I need now is a HU, deadener, 4ga wiring kit, distribution block and maybe an 8ga kit depending on what the amps require.

My sub arrived today.... getting closer to the install!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

wichitadisciple said:


> Fantastic!! All I need now is a HU, deadener, 4ga wiring kit, distribution block and maybe an 8ga kit depending on what the amps require.
> 
> My sub arrived today.... getting closer to the install!


Cadence FDA4 8K 4 8 AWG Gauge Dual Amplifier Installation Multi Amp Wire Kit | eBay

Cadence 14G152M Blu Sil 14 Gauge 50&apos; Blue Silver Car Audio Speaker Wire | eBay

and a couple rcas. Depends on where you plan to decide to install the amps re length

Head unit is a personal decision but with the x4r, you can pretty much pick any one that has 3 outputs. Also deadening people have various feelings about. I forgot the brand I used. Second skin and raamatt are my fav.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> Cadence FDA4 8K 4 8 AWG Gauge Dual Amplifier Installation Multi Amp Wire Kit | eBay
> 
> Cadence 14G152M Blu Sil 14 Gauge 50&apos; Blue Silver Car Audio Speaker Wire | eBay
> 
> ...


I've seen people talk about welding cable... I would like to stay away from CCA if its within my budget. Will copper welding cable work or not really?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

yeah. wire is wire.


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

tyroneshoes said:


> yeah. wire is wire.


Since you have both the sony and kenwood amps, can you recall what size of power cable each one uses?
Thanks again.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

wichitadisciple said:


> Since you have both the sony and kenwood amps, can you recall what size of power cable each one uses?
> Thanks again.


4 gauge main run to the distro then two short 4 or 8 gauge runs will be fine. 

4 gauge on the x4r fits in snug and well. For the sony, its depends on if you have crimp connectors that fit. You can use 4 or 8 gauge after the distro block. Both amps would be fine with 8 gauge.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

wichitadisciple said:


> I've seen people talk about welding cable... I would like to stay away from CCA if its within my budget. Will copper welding cable work or not really?


Not only does it work and very well. Its about half the price

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

also, if youre planning on just running the xs passive, I dont think you can bi-amp the xs passives, the x4r can power the front and bridged on the sub in 3 channel. its 350+ watts bridged on the x4r so the arc would be happy. Plus you can eq the **** out of it.

You can add the sony if you decide to be active.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> also, if youre planning on just running the xs passive, I dont think you can bi-amp the xs passives, the x4r can power the front and bridged on the sub in 3 channel. its 350+ watts bridged on the x4r so the arc would be happy. Plus you can eq the **** out of it.
> 
> You can add the sony if you decide to be active.


You dont really need to use the passive on the xs for the midbass. Its just a passthru. It only effects the tweeter

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

minbari said:


> You dont really need to use the passive on the xs for the midbass. Its just a passthru. It only effects the tweeter
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts



I know, one of my biggest gripes with that set


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

You gonna need a hpf on just about any set. They do sound pretty good with no limitation on the top end.

Personally i used a lpf at around 1900 with them

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

minbari said:


> You gonna need a hpf on just about any set. They do sound pretty good with no limitation on the top end.
> 
> Personally i used a lpf at around 1900 with them
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


did you stick a coil on the mids, or cross them with a 12 db/octave crossover, and if it wasn't passive, did you control under/overlap?

what did they sound like with the mids rolling off, did it address some peaks/break-up in the 4-5Khz region?

and did you take any measurements before you decided on 1900 hz, or did you go by FR graphs from ID?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

he has the option to hp/or lp them at 2k,2.5k, or 3.1k if he uses the x4r to power the set active. The tweeters would probably like 3.1k hp, I dont think they play that low.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

cajunner said:


> did you stick a coil on the mids, or cross them with a 12 db/octave crossover, and if it wasn't passive, did you control under/overlap?
> 
> what did they sound like with the mids rolling off, did it address some peaks/break-up in the 4-5Khz region?
> 
> and did you take any measurements before you decided on 1900 hz, or did you go by FR graphs from ID?



6db, simple coil.
I am not using the tweeter, running hlcd crossed at 2800 6db. Looks like an underlap, but when you figure in the hlcd response, its almost perfect.

It definitely did, midrange is much better

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## wichitadisciple (Jan 13, 2014)

Just an update.... I bought a Kenwood DPX500BT last night, so my HU has been chosen.

Just need cables and a sub box now.


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## arnzng (Mar 4, 2013)

Ive like my crescendo mezzos and massive audio ck.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

enclosure

Goldwood TR12S 12" Single Sealed Box Speaker Cabinet | 260-644

dual 4/8 gauge amp kit with distros. even if you get welding cable it will cost more to get all the distros. Otherwise get the distros from parts express but Id just use this kit.

Cadence FDA4 8K 4 8 AWG Gauge Dual Amplifier Installation Multi Amp Wire Kit | eBay

and a couple of rcas that are the right length. These are nice and cheap and come in various sizes.

P3 Twisted Pair Balanced RCA Cable 25 ft. | 263-211

If you need speaker wire, walmart 12-16 gauge is fine


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

tyroneshoes said:


> Yes. and you get a parametric eq/delay/xovers/phase on every channel* including the line out* (sony)
> 
> Its rated 100x4 and/or 300x2 at 4 ohms but its a bit under rated.
> 
> ...


Wow! so that Kenwood X4R will control T/A on the line outs as well? 

I was unaware that any amp (that did not cost big bucks) could do that. great info!


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