# Yep, another new guy and another MKV VW



## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

Hey y'all,

Long time lurker, first time posting.

I've got a 2008 4dr VW GTI that's the victim of my first full build, I've done many head unit-amp-speaker installs before, but most everything was almost direct-OEM replacement... this is the the first time I set out to custom build anything, so let me apologize in advance for my amateur fabrication skills :blush:

Feel free to critique as much as you can, I decided to join and post to get some criticism and that way I can correct anything that needs attention.

Also note that most of the gear will be über-budget, as I'm preparing to be a dad for the first time (x2) with a set of twins on the way... so cash is tight.
*Factory HU* (Not giving up SW controls, aftermarket HU is out of the budget)
*MB Quart RUA 210* 4" component set, running passive (Made in Germany)
*MB Quart RVF 164* 6.5" add-a-woofer midbass, running passive (Made in Germany)
(2x) *MTX T4510-04* 10" 4Ω
*Alpine MRP-F250* bridged 2x100 @ 4Ω for front channels, screw rear fill.
*Alpine MRP-M450* mono 1x400 @ 2Ω for subs.

While I'm in the process of making the enclosure for the subs, I'm re-evaluating all my equipment choices... I've determined that I need more power for my front stage, something along the lines of 4x100 so I can run the midbasses active but keep the 4" components passive.
Also, I'm definitely going to add some sort of processing, but haven't decided yet. My choices are:
RF 3Sixty.2
AC EQX
Alpine H650
or just get a Memphis 3-way crossover and spend more money on amps!

My complaints at the moment are:
-Lack of proper soundstage, as VW threw us MKV owners a curveball, not only using a 3-way component up front, but also placing the midbass so far in the back of the door that it might as well be a _rear_ speaker.

-Muddy midbass; I'm fixing to take the doors apart again to build proper baffles for the midbasses and maybe do some more sound deadeing.


Enough talking, here are the pics:

The victim.









MB Quart midbass
Sorry, I don't have many pics of the speaker install, it was done months ago and I can't seem to find the full set. I can tell you that I used the factory plastic baffle from the OEM speaker to mount the MBQ.









Taped the area and laid down the first layers of glass









MDF bottom shelf with outline of factory foam pieces.









Fiberglass piece and MDF bottom shelf already paired together. Liquid deadener also applied.









Side view of the bottom half of the box.









Trunk / Spare tire well area with liquid deadener treatment.









Test fit in the trunk; also notice change to the box design (taller, more narrow chamber) to make room for integrated amp/processor rack.









And... mock-up of the subs in their respective ghetto, jigsaw made rings (notice how perfectly round they are NOT).









The top of the box is going to be fiberglass as well. As much as I'd like to make most of the box out of MDF to prevent flex (and a **** load of extra work), I would have ended up with a box that's too tall, which would defeat my stealth purposes.

This box will be exactly 4" tall, which is the exact height of the factory foam that surrounds the spare tire, which will make it fit perfectly under the rear floorboard/mat.

Before the subs go in, the enclosure nets about 1.56ft³, which is just about right for the 2 MTX 4500's that I'm using, each sub likes .75ft³ for a sealed enclosure... I might add some polyfil to make up for the volume deficiency.

More to come later.


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Good start, you should be proud of that work. One thing, if your buying more amps consider going active on the front stage. Even if this means getting a x-over instead of a processor. Some may disagree with this, but the benefits and flex an active front stage I think outway the costs. Or if you can afford to do both (that is active & processor?)
Also with the sub baffles, use as much MDF to support them as possible.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

syd-monster said:


> Good start, you should be proud of that work. One thing, if your buying more amps consider going active on the front stage. Even if this means getting a x-over instead of a processor. Some may disagree with this, but the benefits and flex an active front stage I think outway the costs. Or if you can afford to do both (that is active & processor?)
> Also with the sub baffles, use as much MDF to support them as possible.


Thanks mate!

I am pretty proud of my work, it might be ****ty, but it's MY work 

The sole reason I'm upgrading amps is so I can go active. I've tested bypassing the passive crossovers and run the amp I already have directly to the drivers and there is a noticeable difference, I suspect that the passives are robbing me of some power. I'm considering a 100 x 4 to push the midranges and tweeters and a 150 x 2 + 500 x 1 for the midbasses and subs.


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## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

Looking very nice...

....you may want to place some washers under the screws used on the door speakers, looks like you may have pulled the surrounds a bit already.


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## maxxis (Jun 10, 2008)

Good work man. Very few people can cut a round baffle perfectly with a jigsaw.

My tip for that is to cut very slow and keep your eye on the blade (wear safety glassess) from the side. Keep blowing the dust away while you cut.

Take your time and do it right the first time. 

Looking great so far.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

Complacent_One said:


> Looking very nice...
> 
> ....you may want to place some washers under the screws used on the door speakers, looks like you may have pulled the surrounds a bit already.


I know :blush:

Thanks for the tip!


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

Having a good jig saw helps a lot...much easier to cut straight with my Bosch than it was with the cheapo Craftsman I had before that.


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## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

Complacent_One said:


> Looking very nice...
> 
> ....you may want to place some washers under the screws used on the door speakers, looks like you may have pulled the surrounds a bit already.


common problem and one reason i stopped using mb quart. the surround overlaps the screw heads..


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

*Update*

Just ordered a matching set of Kenwood Excelon amps:
KAC-X4R (100w x4)








I'm going to run my front components partially active. 
2 channels to feed the MB Quart 4" components through their passive x-overs.
2 channels for the midbasses active, right now MB Quart 6.5", but might replace those with Peerless SLS 6.5".


KAC-X1R (800w x1 Mono)








I might wire the 2 MTX subs in series to show the amp an 8Ω load and not overpower them. Or I might sell them and get a pair of eD 110.v2 (on sale for $75 each right now) to take better advantage of the amp's power.

I'm excited about now being able to have some DSP, time correction will come in VERY handy with the ****ed up speaker locations that VW stuck us with.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Great amps



pirrimarin said:


> *Update*
> 
> Just ordered a matching set of Kenwood Excelon amps:
> KAC-X4R (100w x4)
> ...


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

While I anxiously wait for the amps to come in, here are some pics of the progress of my enclosure.

Used 93%-Cotton / 7%-Spandex fabric, very easy to apply because it's so stretchy.










While easy to stretch, the fabric ended up being too soft and therefore it "caved-in" a bit... No big deal, I'm planning to cover that surface anyways; It's a learning experience anyways.










After all layers of fiberglass were laid down, applied a coat of polyester resin mixed with fiberglass filler, to fill in the major imperfections and to add some thickness to the top.









Since I wasn't able to glass the inside of the box (too thin), I'm a bit concerned about the sub baffles not being attached more securely to the top surface of the box. Suggestions welcome!

Another thing, should I build a beauty panel above the whole thing? or should I painstakingly use body filler to completely flatten the top surface?


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm a happy man!
FedEx dropped off my amps on Friday. I spent all day yesterday laying down the final layers of fiberglass and the final glass-filler coat, then some sanding.

Here is a mock-up of the almost finalized box (before sanding) with the new Kenwood amps in their respective place:











The new amps:

KAC-X4R

















KAC-X1R


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

OK, today I finally finished the structure of the box itself, now I just have to wrap it with carpet.

I also had a VERY pleasant surprise today!
You see, my new Kenwood amps are power rated like this:

X4R
12.0V - 75W x 4 @ 4Ω
14.4V - 100W x 4 @ 4Ω

X1R
12.0V - 400W x 1 @ 4Ω
12.0V - 800W x 1 @ 2Ω
14.4V - 600W x 1 @ 4Ω
14.4V - 1200W x 1 @ 2Ω

This whole time I'm looking at them as "well, they're rated at such and such at 14.4V, but in reality I probably need to consider the 12.0V ratings as what I'm going to get".

So, I plug the amps today to test them temporarily, since they are refurbished, I wanted to make sure they worked. Once plugged, with the ignition in the "Accessory" position, I see this:










And I say "Ha, just like I thought, I'm not getting any more than 12-Volts to the amps. But then, curiosity stroke and I decided to actually _start_ my engine and see what kind of voltage I get from my VW's electrical system, and not the battery alone... VERY pleasant surprise :










Which means, I'm getting close to the actual rated power ratings 

As of now, I haven't had much time to listen to them, I should get a pretty good indication on my drive to work tomorrow morning, impressions to come...


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## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

uhh ya.. the battery isnt charging if the alternator isnt turning..


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## BLACKonBLACK98 (Apr 5, 2008)

i find it a little strange you used fg for such a square box. seems like wood would have been much easier. well done none the less.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

placenta said:


> uhh ya.. the battery isnt charging if the alternator isnt turning..


Obviously, I knew that part... I just wasn't expecting to get the 14-Volts 




BLACKonBLACK98 said:


> i find it a little strange you used fg for such a square box. seems like wood would have been much easier. well done none the less.


I know, I know dude :blush: I went that route because making the top with MDF (most of the box is MDF) would have added about 1-1.5" to the overall height after making recessed baffles for the subs, and that would have ruined my plans of keeping the box "stealth" under the rear hatch panel... in hindsight though, I wish I would have done it all from MDF, 1 inch wouldn't have made much of a difference... and the damned fiberglass was a ****load of work, and expensive.


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## BLACKonBLACK98 (Apr 5, 2008)

live and learn. :thumbsup:


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## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

pirrimarin said:


> Obviously, I knew that part... I just wasn't expecting to get the 14-Volts



true. the most common voltage i see on running cars is 13.7-13.8V.. 14.2V is sick.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

So, I finally got some ear time with the new amps and let's just say that I'm pretty pleased with the upgrade. 
I'm currently only running the 4" components using 2 of the X4R channels, crossed over at 250Hz. At first I didn't hear much of a difference between it and the outgoing Alpine MRP-F250, except that the sound was a bit smoother, almost _cleaner_ sounding, but I just attributed that to the fact that I was running the Alpine in bridged mode. Both had a little bit of low-end distortion, apparently mechanical. Then, I decided to play with the crossover in the on-board DSP, and changed the slope from 12dB to 24dB and WOW, the distortion was completely GONE! I was so impressed with the difference, that I decided to drop the frequency one step down to 220Hz, and it still sounded great, even at higher volumes.

The midbasses are not running right now, because while I've decided to run those active, I still have not run new speaker wire to them.

Next, I decided that it was time to turn up the gains on the X4R, but this time I didn't do it arbitrarily by ear like I always do, these amps actually come with a clipping indicator to set your input gains... even comes with a test disc (100Hz track) to aid with the setup. 
Looks like the max output from my budget SoundGate LOC is 2V, before clipping, so I'm considering an AudioControl LC6i as my next purchase.
The output is clean though, I can play my HU almost all the way to max volume and I still get a distortion free playback.

As far as the subs go, I'm running those in series off the X1R @ 8Ω, with the gain turned all the way down while the subs break-in. I'm very content with the output from my box, it's going to take some time to get used to a sealed box (coming from a bandpass), but I'm very happy on how flat the frequency response is and how fast and snappy the bass is now, not boomy at all.

Here's a pic of the finished enclosure (minus carpet) with the subs in:










If you're wondering why I don't have the subs' logos to where you can read them, that was my original intention, but it turns out that the terminals on the subs themselves won't allow them to sit properly in that position  poor planning in my part... but who cares? they are going to be covered with grills!


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## kota_sounds (Apr 21, 2008)

where did you pick up the amps and if you dont mind telling us how much was the 4ch?


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

so why did you even bother making the top glassed if it ended up being flat anyway? it would have been 100x cheaper, 10x faster to make the top out of wood, and it would have been stronger than the glass most likely. i just dont understand, all the strength from fiberglass comes from the curves....


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

kota_sounds said:


> where did you pick up the amps and if you dont mind telling us how much was the 4ch?


MillionBuy, each was $219 refurbished. You can also find them on eBay for around the same price.



req said:


> so why did you even bother making the top glassed if it ended up being flat anyway? it would have been 100x cheaper, 10x faster to make the top out of wood, and it would have been stronger than the glass most likely. i just dont understand, all the strength from fiberglass comes from the curves....


Height restrictions. With an MDF/wood top, I would have ended up with a box that was either too tall or one that wouldn't have given me enough internal volume... and yes, I regret it after all.


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

did this get finished?


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

vwtoby said:


> did this get finished?


Not quite 

It's all put together, but I haven't carpeted the box yet... hence, no pics since it looks the same it did 6 months ago.

I'm actually selling the Kenwoods and going back to cheaper Alpine V-Power amps, and with that money I'm going to get a RF 3Sixty.2 for greater signal control.

The Kenwood amps are BAD ASS, but I need more control over my x-over points and I'm not very skilled with a parametric EQ, so I want to try a plain old graphic EQ.


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

you've got a great looking setup, my only question is where did you get the amps from? i've looked everywhere and i'm being told its discontinued and no one can locate any.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Is this still an issue?

Since I wasn't able to glass the inside of the box (too thin), I'm a bit concerned about the sub baffles not being attached more securely to the top surface of the box. Suggestions welcome!

If it is I have a solution which will take very very little labor.
You will need EPOXY resin and wood flour, not saw dust. Mix
your epoxy with wood flour consistency of mayo, make two
speaker hole plugs screw one in place of each woofer. Your
going to want to wrap the plugs with plastic wrap or duck
tape. Pour in the mixture turn the box over so that the epoxy
runs to the area your wanting to add some bulk. Epoxy doesn't
like to stick to polyester but it looks like it will have a rough
enough surface to stick to.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

MTopper said:


> you've got a great looking setup, my only question is where did you get the amps from? i've looked everywhere and i'm being told its discontinued and no one can locate any.


Yep, I think they were discontinued about 2 years ago, it's a real shame because they are AMAZING, the power is very clean and the DSP on the 4-channel is very useful of you can't afford a Zapco.

I'm actually selling mine, if you're interested :blush:
The X1R (mono) is already sold and shipped, but the 4-channel is still available... PM me if you want more info.




FLYONWALL9 said:


> Is this still an issue?
> 
> Since I wasn't able to glass the inside of the box (too thin), I'm a bit concerned about the sub baffles not being attached more securely to the top surface of the box. Suggestions welcome!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip!


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

*UPDATE*

OK, so the Excelon amps are out... the X1R (mono) already has a new owner, and the X4R (4-channel) is still up for sale on eBay.
I'm saddened that I gave up on those amps, I really liked the quality of sound they put out... but it also meant that I had money there tied up that I could use for something else, given that I had already decided that I wanted more advanced DSP tuning capabilities.
For that, I've already commissioned a RF 3sixty.2, which I bought with some of the money I got back from selling the Excelon amps. I will still need amps, right? Fear not, I still have both my trusty and cheap Alpine V-Power amps, MRP-F250 (50x4 or 100x2 bridged) and MRP-M450 (400x1 @ 2Ω). Along the way, I've also picked up an MRP-F450 (70x4 or 200x2 bridged).

I have a small dilemma, should I use the 200w/ch that I'm getting from bridging the MRP-F450 to run the highs/mids? or the midbasses?
Common sense tells me that bass is more power hungry, so the midbasses should be a no brainer, but what about the benefits of the added headroom if used for the highs/mids?

Anyone care to chip in?


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

I love those old Alpine amps! My very first comp car I
built had the old 3527, 48, 22's, they were simply bullet
proof! Honestly, it was really good clean power.

IMHO, I would run the 250 on your mids/hi, the 450 I 
would put on midbass, lastly M450 on your subs. I would
install in such a way that you could easily swap mid/hi
and midbass amp, or rca's really. But I think your going
to like the 200w on midbass better....... I THINK


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Your 250 is going to do more than 100x2 if it was making 50x4.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Your 250 is going to do more than 100x2 if it was making 50x4.



My mistake, I just looked up the specs and it's 40x4 or 100x2.


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## HertzGuy (Jan 23, 2010)

Great job and nice that your posting us with updates.
I drive an '07 Mk5 Gti that I'm waiting for the lease to end so than I can get down to business with it and have some real fun.

Are you on any other sites (VW forums?) that you've posted to as well??

Keep the updates flowin.....


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Why wait? If you know it's never going back to the dealer have at it.


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

HertzGuy said:


> Great job and nice that your posting us with updates.
> I drive an '07 Mk5 Gti that I'm waiting for the lease to end so than I can get down to business with it and have some real fun.
> 
> Are you on any other sites (VW forums?) that you've posted to as well??
> ...


I also post, albeit very rarely, on GolfMKV.com


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## ilovetards (Nov 12, 2009)

How do those MB Quart midbass sound? I'm thinking about adding a set to the front doors of my ram to compliment my components and am curious to know if they are worth it? Install looks great btw.


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## HertzGuy (Jan 23, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> Why wait? If you know it's never going back to the dealer have at it.


Only because the economy and for a while I wasn't sure how school and work was going to go, and if I had to ditch the ride I would.
But now that I got that squared away once I refi this ****er under my own name and get the payments lower I'll have a few more dollars to throw around. I try, and I mean try :mean:, not to throw too much on credit cards these days.

VOLKSWAGEN GTI Forum • MyFastGTI.com |VW MKV GTI|VW MKVI Golf|VW R32|Forum|RSS|Owners|Mods|DIY|Reviews|Performance|
its still goin strong and lots of new stuff updated regularly for any dubbers!!


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

ilovetards said:


> How do those MB Quart midbass sound? I'm thinking about adding a set to the front doors of my ram to compliment my components and am curious to know if they are worth it? Install looks great btw.



They are OK.
While they can get pretty low for 6.5"s, they make too much mechanical noise IMO, even when crossed conservatively.

I'm waiting for temperatures to go up so I can take my doors apart again and build proper baffles for them... if they still don't sound like I want them to, they will be replaced with something else.

If you have processing (adjustable x-overs), I would say get raw drivers from Madisound or Parts Express instead of these. The only advantage of these is that they come with their own passive crossovers, so it makes them easy to add to an existing system.

Hope that helps.


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## hunter660 (Feb 23, 2009)

Any pictures of the front stage or did you use stock locations for everything? Are you happy with it?


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## pirrimarin (Jul 22, 2009)

Just realized that I never posted finished pictures of the setup... I actually just sold the car and it took having to remove all the equipment to remember that:
a) I never finished the project.
b) Since there was no progress, I neglected the build thread.

Anyways, here are the last pictures of the hatch area semi-finished, just waiting for a false-floor cover to finish things off.


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