# Shouldn't it be possible to simply use a tablet as a head unit?



## Desmofan2

I know there has been a lot of discussion about this in the past, but it seems to me it has been quite awhile, and most of the "no head unit" discussions revolve around PCs and such. With the higher end audio reproduction available in today's tablets, I would think a 3D-printed mount with a good tablet would make an excellent "head unit". Bluetooth, or USB-C to SPDIF out, connected to a DSP then amps would be great. The tablet would have access to a huge variety of apps for audio and vehicle systems control. I know I'm really simplifying this, but it seems pretty straightforward. What am i missing?

Let me at least say that I've Googled this too, and there is a lot of information about it. Unfortunately, it seems like everybody wants to be a YouTube millionaire, rather than typing out a simple discussion about what is possible, whether it makes sense, etc. I appreciate any help, discussion, whatever. Thanks!


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## lithium

Most folks are using phones or DAPs with a USB DAC for digital signal (coax or optical) into a DSP. A tablet would be no different.

I use my phone - fiio k3 - minidsp. Another popular DAC is the Topping D10.

Depending on phone brand you also need a way to provide power to the phone and also transfer data. I use this thing, one usb for power from a 12v dc converter and the other USB for the DAC. Function similarly to the old OTG cables we used for tablet installs 10 years ago.. 









Amazon.com: USB-C to HDMI Multiport Adapter, Feovino USB Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to HDMI 4K, USB 3.0 Hub with Charging Port for New MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, Chromebook, More USB C Devices : Electronics


Amazon.com: USB-C to HDMI Multiport Adapter, Feovino USB Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to HDMI 4K, USB 3.0 Hub with Charging Port for New MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, Chromebook, More USB C Devices : Electronics



smile.amazon.com


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## Thomasluke7899

It is very possible. 
They even have the mounts already made. 
Wiring kits too. 





Soundman iPad dash kits


iPad vehicle installation dash kits and Soundman merch. ipad car stereo. hot to install an ipad in your car. ipad car installation.



soundman.co


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## dumdum

lithium said:


> Most folks are using phones or DAPs with a USB DAC for digital signal (coax or optical) into a DSP. A tablet would be no different.
> 
> I use my phone - fiio k3 - minidsp. Another popular DAC is the Topping D10.
> 
> Depending on phone brand you also need a way to provide power to the phone and also transfer data. I use this thing, one usb for power from a 12v dc converter and the other USB for the DAC. Function similarly to the old OTG cables we used for tablet installs 10 years ago..
> 
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> Amazon.com: USB-C to HDMI Multiport Adapter, Feovino USB Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to HDMI 4K, USB 3.0 Hub with Charging Port for New MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, Chromebook, More USB C Devices : Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: USB-C to HDMI Multiport Adapter, Feovino USB Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to HDMI 4K, USB 3.0 Hub with Charging Port for New MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, Chromebook, More USB C Devices : Electronics
> 
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> smile.amazon.com


Just for the benefit of the OP we should clarify you can’t use a dac to get a digital signal, the one mentioned… the topping d10s is a dac, however we don’t use it as a dac, we use it as a usb to spdif converter, I use this very item with an iPad mini 5 as a digital streamer from my dash to a dsp ultra via coax


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## Desmofan2

lithium said:


> Most folks are using phones or DAPs with a USB DAC for digital signal (coax or optical) into a DSP. A tablet would be no different.
> 
> I use my phone - fiio k3 - minidsp. Another popular DAC is the Topping D10.
> 
> Depending on phone brand you also need a way to provide power to the phone and also transfer data. I use this thing, one usb for power from a 12v dc converter and the other USB for the DAC. Function similarly to the old OTG cables we used for tablet installs 10 years ago..
> 
> 
> 
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> Amazon.com: USB-C to HDMI Multiport Adapter, Feovino USB Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to HDMI 4K, USB 3.0 Hub with Charging Port for New MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, Chromebook, More USB C Devices : Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: USB-C to HDMI Multiport Adapter, Feovino USB Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to HDMI 4K, USB 3.0 Hub with Charging Port for New MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, Chromebook, More USB C Devices : Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> smile.amazon.com





dumdum said:


> Just for the benefit of the OP we should clarify you can’t use a dac to get a digital signal, the one mentioned… the topping d10s is a dac, however we don’t use it as a dac, we use it as a usb to spdif converter, I use this very item with an iPad mini 5 as a digital streamer from my dash to a dsp ultra via coax





Thomasluke7899 said:


> It is very possible.
> They even have the mounts already made.
> Wiring kits too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soundman iPad dash kits
> 
> 
> iPad vehicle installation dash kits and Soundman merch. ipad car stereo. hot to install an ipad in your car. ipad car installation.
> 
> 
> 
> soundman.co


Thank you everybody! This is exactly what I was thinking, even to the degree of an OTG converter for an SPDIF output to a DSP. I like those dash mounts, everything I had seen was more of a "put your tablet in a mount and attach it to the center console" type of thing.

I didn't think about using a phone, but an "Ultra" size phone, or Samsung Note, might just do the trick. For power, whether for a tablet or phone, I was thinking a wireless charging coil would work. It limits the choice of tablets though.

This is good stuff guys, thanks, and it really gives me something to research over the Holidays!


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## squiers007

I use my Android phone with an OTG cable into this DOUK U2 unit that converts USB to toslink, then straight into my DSP. Has worked flawlessly for 6 months now. I don't see why this combo wouldn't work with any Android tablet to provide the audio data output and power to the tablet itself.


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## lithium

You don't need to worry about wireless charging, just use the correct adapters. Unless your goal is some type of wireless mount...


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## Desmofan2

lithium said:


> You don't need to worry about wireless charging, just use the correct adapters. Unless your goal is some type of wireless mount...


I was just thinking it would require one less thing going into the USB connector/hub for the tablet.


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## lithium

Don't be lazy.. Folks have already done the hard work figuring out which adapters and dacs work best. Worse case is you buy them on Amazon and return what doesn't work.


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## dumdum

Desmofan2 said:


> I was just thinking it would require one less thing going into the USB connector/hub for the tablet.


But that’s buried as you’d use an extension for a phone or tablet

I will also say, android is not as good as apple for audio reproduction, you will fall foul of the android audio layer and it’s up/down sampling anything, apple just outputs the bitrate of the track with the volume up full it is bit perfect with cd quality tracks

Android you have to use usb audio player pro and that’s only compatible with tidal and qobuz and you can’t use downloaded content then either, I think lately tidal has done a direct mode type of implementation, but it doesn’t then play well with other apps as it’s takes over the audio driver

It’s long and drawn out, but apple for me is better for pure audio reproduction (I’m not one way or the other and have tried five or six android tablets, but now have an iPad mini 5 256gb in my dash where the double din was


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## Desmofan2

dumdum said:


> But that’s buried as you’d use an extension for a phone or tablet
> 
> I will also say, android is not as good as apple for audio reproduction, you will fall foul of the android audio layer and it’s up/down sampling anything, apple just outputs the bitrate of the track with the volume up full it is bit perfect with cd quality tracks
> 
> Android you have to use usb audio player pro and that’s only compatible with tidal and qobuz and you can’t use downloaded content then either, I think lately tidal has done a direct mode type of implementation, but it doesn’t then play well with other apps as it’s takes over the audio driver
> 
> It’s long and drawn out, but apple for me is better for pure audio reproduction (I’m not one way or the other and have tried five or six android tablets, but now have an iPad mini 5 256gb in my dash where the double din was


I assume you were talking about the wireless charger vs USB charger. I just meant it would be one less thing fro teh USB-C plug to manage, not sure if it matters though.

I'm not a streaming music fan. I store all my music locally, and make sure as much as possible is lossless (FLAC/WAV/whatever), so it's really more a matter of what will process the zeroes and ones from the MicroSD card to the DSP the best. I also can't stand the Apple environment, so I'm planning on sticking with Android.


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## Cutaway

Desmofan2 said:


> I assume you were talking about the wireless charger vs USB charger. I just meant it would be one less thing fro teh USB-C plug to manage, not sure if it matters though.
> 
> I'm not a streaming music fan. I store all my music locally, and make sure as much as possible is lossless (FLAC/WAV/whatever), so it's really more a matter of what will process the zeroes and ones from the MicroSD card to the DSP the best. I also can't stand the Apple environment, so I'm planning on sticking with Android.


I'm in the "Prefer Android" camp to but..... as @dumdum brought up, Android with either up/down sample your music that your sending out your USB  From my experience Sony & Samsung upsample everything to 192 and all other devices i tested <OnePlus; HTC; LG; Pixel> set the sampling to 48. I finally had to breakdown and run an Apple "i" device that just passes the bitrate of the actual file whether from streaming or from music on my device...


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## dumdum

Desmofan2 said:


> I assume you were talking about the wireless charger vs USB charger. I just meant it would be one less thing fro teh USB-C plug to manage, not sure if it matters though.
> 
> I'm not a streaming music fan. I store all my music locally, and make sure as much as possible is lossless (FLAC/WAV/whatever), so it's really more a matter of what will process the zeroes and ones from the MicroSD card to the DSP the best. I also can't stand the Apple environment, so I'm planning on sticking with Android.


Use usb audio player pro with your flac library and you will bypass the android audio layer and get the native sample rate from the digital output to your dac or spdif bridge 👍🏼


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## abizzle

I purchased an Audison C2O for the purpose of converting the iPad analog output to TOSLINK and then directly connecting to my Audison AP F8.9 bit. I haven’t installed it yet because I’m in the middle of soundproofing and wanted to wait until I pull the seats and carpet out.

My plan is to mount the C2O in a stealth location and then flush mount an extra 3.5mm jack in the console.


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## Cutaway

abizzle said:


> I purchased an Audison C2O for the purpose of converting the iPad analog output to TOSLINK and then directly connecting to my Audison AP F8.9 bit. I haven’t installed it yet because I’m in the middle of soundproofing and wanted to wait until I pull the seats and carpet out.
> 
> My plan is to mount the C2O in a stealth location and then flush mount an extra 3.5mm jack in the console.


Why are you wanting to go Analog to digital from your iPAD to the Audison? I think you may find it better to go Lightening - USB > Topping D10s - Optical > Audison AP F8.9 bit... This way you are going digital all the way to the DAC of the Audison which i am assuming is much better than the DAC of the iPad


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## abizzle

Cutaway said:


> Why are you wanting to go Analog to digital from your iPAD to the Audison? I think you may find it better to go Lightening - USB > Topping D10s - Optical > Audison AP F8.9 bit... This way you are going digital all the way to the DAC of the Audison which i am assuming is much better than the DAC of the iPad


You’re totally right and I don’t know why I didn’t think of that. It’s quite a bit cheaper than the Audison too. The only issue I see is the D10’s size may prevent me from doing a stealth install. It’s about 2.5x larger than the Audison.

Thanks for the tip!


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## dumdum

abizzle said:


> You’re totally right and I don’t know why I didn’t think of that. It’s quite a bit cheaper than the Audison too. The only issue I see is the D10’s size may prevent me from doing a stealth install. It’s about 2.5x larger than the Audison.
> 
> Thanks for the tip!


They aren’t so big, they fit behind dashes very easily 👍🏼


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## lithium

Fiio has some smaller options as well


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## abizzle

dumdum said:


> They aren’t so big, they fit behind dashes very easily 👍🏼


I’ll figure something out, but I don’t want it behind the dash and if I can’t find a place to hide it then I’ll incorporate it into my amp rack.

This has got me thinking about something, tho. My Axxess integration kit only has RCA outputs, so that’s how I’m connecting to my AP F8.9 bit. I could connect the Topping D10 to the Optical In, which would result in two separate systems and requiring me to switch inputs. I also have to consider that I’ll lose my chimes, alerts, and OnStar when I’m using the Optical In. I may even lose my steering wheel controls and dash buttons.

Since I only need two channels going into the AP F, could I connect my Axxess RCA Out to the Topping and then connect Optical to the AP F? If that would work, it would preserve all of my controls and chimes, and eliminate the input switching.


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## lithium

I don't think the d10 has RCA inputs but you can double check. 

I have my factory radio connected to my minidsp via RCA and a USB dac connected via digital coax. 
The mixer allows both inputs to be used simultaneously so it retains all the factory sounds. Volume is controlled via the minidsp remote.


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## Theslaking

A new fire hd pro has wireless charging and a charging dock that could easily be fabricated in to a nice dash. 

Cost less than $175 fit both.


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## Selkec

I put the d10 where the ashtray/change holder used to be 😉. It was like it was made for my car. Just cut the back of the ashtray out and it slid right in. Only time is says 44.1 is when I take a dang pic with the phone that’s playing the music lol


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## Mikescotland

dumdum said:


> But that’s buried as you’d use an extension for a phone or tablet
> 
> I will also say, android is not as good as apple for audio reproduction, you will fall foul of the android audio layer and it’s up/down sampling anything, apple just outputs the bitrate of the track with the volume up full it is bit perfect with cd quality tracks
> 
> Android you have to use usb audio player pro and that’s only compatible with tidal and qobuz and you can’t use downloaded content then either, I think lately tidal has done a direct mode type of implementation, but it doesn’t then play well with other apps as it’s takes over the audio driver
> 
> It’s long and drawn out, but apple for me is better for pure audio reproduction (I’m not one way or the other and have tried five or six android tablets, but now have an iPad mini 5 256gb in my dash where the double din was


Not anymore.
There are android players (ie power amp that play anything via external DAC in high res completely bypassing android audio layer). Also now tidal plays bit perfect over USB DAC.
For 4 years now I've been using old nexus 7 2nd gen which serves as complete car infotainment and connecting live to car computers via Bluetooth. Connected via hubs to storage, DAC, TPMS, rear view camera and bunch of other things including location, obd speed and some engine parameters








. Uses modified Timur Kernel.
It's rooted so base android sampling freq is 44.1, when using android audio layer.
I also added simple Bluetooth button remote on the steering wheel, as couldn't be bothered to make any arduino interface from the original steering. I still have Pioneer head unit for just radio (android SDR dongle allows me to receive DAB+ and FM but it's not as sensitive as standalone HU.
Tablet uses charging when used and then goes to deep sleep, kernel is modified so it can do OTG and charging at the same time without electrical USB socket modification.
PS. Ignore Kylie... 😂


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## jamie05351

I use an s7 tablet that connects to my pioneer had unit through the smart sync app. It gives me to control of the head unit and it has a full dsp but I use Poweramp EQ for my EQ as it has a parametric EQ. I also run Digital gauges through the obdlink app connected to my OBD2 connector. All stitched together with the edge panels feature to switch between saved windows setups.


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## dkc7

I used an ipad mini as my head unit n an audi a4 b7. Unfortunately they are not built for the temperature extremes of a car. Park for 5 minutes in the summer sun and it overheats, a few hours in the winter and the battery has to-warm up before it works. Screen is not bright enough for direct sun. i used a dragonfly dac and an apple av adapter for power. That went directly to the low level amp input but could also goto a dsp. I have alot more appreciation for car electronics ability to function in the extreme conditions they function in.


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## dumdum

dkc7 said:


> I used an ipad mini as my head unit n an audi a4 b7. Unfortunately they are not built for the temperature extremes of a car. Park for 5 minutes in the summer sun and it overheats, a few hours in the winter and the battery has to-warm up before it works. Screen is not bright enough for direct sun. i used a dragonfly dac and an apple av adapter for power. That went directly to the low level amp input but could also goto a dsp. I have alot more appreciation for car electronics ability to function in the extreme conditions they function in.


I live in the U.K. and have had it overheat when enclosed on the rear, but now I opened the back up it’s not overheated since, and cold sometimes it can take a second or two to recognise a finger print but 99.999% of the time it’s fine… iPad mini 5 256gb in mine


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## Cutaway

dkc7 said:


> I used an ipad mini as my head unit n an audi a4 b7. Unfortunately they are not built for the temperature extremes of a car. Park for 5 minutes in the summer sun and it overheats, a few hours in the winter and the battery has to-warm up before it works. Screen is not bright enough for direct sun. i used a dragonfly dac and an apple av adapter for power. That went directly to the low level amp input but could also goto a dsp. I have alot more appreciation for car electronics ability to function in the extreme conditions they function in.


^^^Yep... Not fun^^^^

I found that when using a tablet, i had to remove it and carry it with me all the time because of the hot/cold issues described. The sun glare was a pretty easy fix with applying the Anti-Glare screen protector (example: TiMOVO)


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