# My 3 Worst Fears About Collecting Oldschool Equipment



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Alright, well i've been thinking about this for a while and figure it would be beneficial for myself and others to bring this to the table. I gues you could describe me as a 30 year old semi-collector of a couple different models of amps of particular brands that i lusted for or owned and had fun times with, amplifiers from back in the later 1990's. And amps that were just done with at that time that i wished i hadnt missed back then (Soundstream Original Reference Class A's and PPI Arts most notably) I turned 16 and got into car audio in March of 1998, actually more like December of 1996 when i heard my frist subwoofer in the mall walking by radioshack, so bought a home system and then wanted to make this sound mobile and by that next winter i was collecting car audio stuff for my inherited beater 1990 ford escort from my parents come March 1998. And like most of my interests i became infatuated with the hobby and had to know every detail inside and out of various equipment, it was my life i had no time for a girlfreind, id rather be working on my car in my spare time. As a matter of fact only the audio of the car i didn't even care about the damn car it was a piece of crap. As long as the engine would turn the alternator to charge my batteries thats all that mattered in my head. I would come home from school and stay up all night working on stuff and reading magazines over and over memeorizing specs, etc, i didnt have the internet or a cell phone so i made myself a pest at every local audio store and couldnt wait for the weekends to go there and hang out (now i realize i was a huge pain probably, asking question after question, god bless the installers who put up with me). Of all things i respected seniority, the longer you are in the industry the more i respected and longed for the knowledge. 

Anyways, as i got into college and the workforce, got a house, got married, i gradually was forced to give up my car audio hobby...actually rigth after the college part. i Did lose interest. Partly because i had exhausted every brand and model of speaker and amplifier that i could, i tried every configuration i could and tested things in all sorts of ways, Jensens to JL's to Rockford, Kicker, sealed ported, coaxials componenets from pioneer to OZ superman, phoenix cyclone, US amps surfboards, and saw when Class D made the big hit on the SPL scene, my final setup was Two Digital 9515's in a 13 cube wall powered by 4 MMATS D300HC's and doing mid 150's. To me that was absolutely brutal, i am amazed at whats going down today!!! 

So through the years i have collected mmats and art amps, soundstream, etc mostly to reminisce as i said, and now they sit in boxes, many new some look new and were from similar OCD minded people. I definitely dont have a collection like some of you! I do have over 10 amps though and feel like a hoarder. 

My fears!!! (and some may find this amusing)

1. I will own them untill i die and the amps will go into the hands of people who have no idea what the hell they are and no appreciation of them!

2. I will regret deeply the money i spent on them when i get older. And possibly never use them, you know how you dream of a special vehicle one day to utilize these in? Yes thats me and i only have plans for 3 in particular, my crossfire class D's and 4 channel and oldschool Digital subs. 

3. The biggest - one day i will decide to sell these....and all of us will be older and not the "teens who once lusted for and now have real jobs and can afford" in other words the prime buyers will be gone! And the newer crowd will have no nostalgia and will only want the 6"x6" 6 channel 3,200 watt class Z amp that some new company came out with that docks directly to your OEM stereo LOL. 

Edit ---- There is a 4th!! All the electronics will deteriorate and go bad!! And the boards will burn when the day comes i apply power. They are in humidity controlled and temp controlled environment. What's the chance of this? That will be terrible if it happens!!! Like trying to save a special gallon of milk, and the more i read the more i realize i was wrong when i thought electronics would last forever!!! I have actually dreamed about this fear. My wife could give two ****s about car audio so i spend lots of my time reminiscing to myself or with buddies who lived through that time with me and loved it too.

Have a good one guys,

- Mike T


----------



## underdog (Jul 5, 2011)

My 2 cents
If you are passionate about it and it brings you happiness. DO IT!
Your wife should understand and support. Your children can enjoy it with you.
Find a way to bring your hobby into your reality

I found this interesting:
Video Review – Why Men need Visions and Dreams by Dr. Myles Munroe « My Pen and My Paper


----------



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

My wife realized, not just because I told her, that car audio was here (with me) before you, and it will be here after you. She sees the joy I get out of it and she also knows it's somewhat therapeutic for me. She embraces my collector-in-me for car audio and for Xmas/bdays/fatherly, you name it, she gives me $ to spend on it.


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

MikeT1982 said:


> Alright, well i've been thinking about this for a while and figure it would be beneficial for myself and others to bring this to the table. I gues you could describe me as a 30 year old semi-collector of a couple different models of amps of particular brands that i lusted for or owned and had fun times with, amplifiers from back in the later 1990's. And amps that were just done with at that time that i wished i hadnt missed back then (Soundstream Original Reference Class A's and PPI Arts most notably) I turned 16 and got into car audio in March of 1998, actually more like December of 1996 when i heard my frist subwoofer in the mall walking by radioshack, so bought a home system and then wanted to make this sound mobile and by that next winter i was collecting car audio stuff for my inherited beater 1990 ford escort from my parents come March 1998. And like most of my interests i became infatuated with the hobby and had to know every detail inside and out of various equipment, it was my life i had no time for a girlfreind, id rather be working on my car in my spare time. As a matter of fact only the audio of the car i didn't even care about the damn car it was a piece of crap. As long as the engine would turn the alternator to charge my batteries thats all that mattered in my head. I would come home from school and stay up all night working on stuff and reading magazines over and over memeorizing specs, etc, i didnt have the internet or a cell phone so i made myself a pest at every local audio store and couldnt wait for the weekends to go there and hang out (now i realize i was a huge pain probably, asking question after question, god bless the installers who put up with me). Of all things i respected seniority, the longer you are in the industry the more i respected and longed for the knowledge.
> 
> Anyways, as i got into college and the workforce, got a house, got married, i gradually was forced to give up my car audio hobby...actually rigth after the college part. i Did lose interest. Partly because i had exhausted every brand and model of speaker and amplifier that i could, i tried every configuration i could and tested things in all sorts of ways, Jensens to JL's to Rockford, Kicker, sealed ported, coaxials componenets from pioneer to OZ superman, phoenix cyclone, US amps surfboards, and saw when Class D made the big hit on the SPL scene, my final setup was Two Digital 9515's in a 13 cube wall powered by 4 MMATS D300HC's and doing mid 150's. To me that was absolutely brutal, i am amazed at whats going down today!!!
> 
> ...


Yes, all that will likely happen.
Once you accept that as a likely reality, the real question here is will that stop you from pursuing your passion?
Once you answer that question, the listed fears become irrelevant whether the answer is yes or no.

In other words, don't sweat the little stuff in life and find happiness when and where you can.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## ntimd8n-k5 (Nov 11, 2008)

As far #3 goes: It is sort of sad how we don't want to let some things go because of the dreams that we might use them one day. 
I am in the same boat, I have a stash of PPI PRO650s that I know I need to sell but dont because I think that I might use them one day. I still have some remorse about unloading some of the PPI equipment that I had collected years ago. Anytime I think of my dream system I always go back to that equipment that I no longer have.....


----------



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

I have no delusions about one day I might use the things I have collected. There are a few things I do have plans for and am in the middle of following through, but 90% of what I have, will never see an install. At most, a nice display board.


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Ok, let's all go out on a limb together and look to the future.
Maybe, just maybe, what's going on here on DIYMA might be the 1st stages toward an honest to goodness old school car audio hall of fame museum.
This is how things such as museums get started.
The 1st step is to preserve and protect these treasures from destruction which is what we have already done and are continuing to do.
The 2nd step is to show or display your treasures to other like minded enthusiasts which we have done on DIYMA via pics and videos in our posts.
The next step is to display, demonstrate, and even operate these old school classics to the next generation so they to can appreciate them like we do. 
For example, this is something the Ford Mustang Clubs have done to perfection and on purpose.
The only way to guarantee the continuation of a classic is to educate the next generation, build an enthusiam and desire for it, and then pass them into their care.
The final steps are to take the cream of the "old school" crop and preserve them in a physical brick and mortar building so the public can see and more importantly hear them.
Even the very 1st hot rods in SoCal that were at one time considered just junk are now getting their long overdue accolades and are highly desirable.

I'll go even farther and predict that at some point, even the Smithsonian will consider some old school classics worthy of acquisition such as 1st generations or original prototypes.

Yes, we may very well be in the beginning stages of something very big for our choice of passion.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Car_Audionut (Jun 9, 2010)

Keep a handful of the ones you like and every couple of years have a tech replace the capacitors, re-flow the solder joints and bench test it. Might need to replace some transistors/resistors every now and then, but the best thing of all is you can extend the life of your gear.


----------



## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

i have had my share i let go and wish i didn't a planet audio tube amp white nib(the only pa amp worth owning),punch 800,4 petras 10's,2 volcano 10's,phoenix gold m50 and much more classic audio then i stopped selling it off.i kept a couple of mtx thunder amps I'm using as boat anchor's and wheel chock's.I'm about to be 43 i just got a second car to and am doing it up.my 15 year old don't even like music(what)?????????hay I'll keep listening till i go deaf!
my first car is already done...i say keep your stuff or sell it to me I'll put it to good use ha-ha ya never get too old


----------



## itchnertamatoa (Dec 12, 2006)

95% of what I have will never be put to use ...
I didn't buy them to use them, but to collect them (some of them don't even work as they are unfinished prototypes)
will I stop buying?
hell NO, not if I can afford to keep buying
I see this as an investment as I know some of those will hold their value over the years ...
I have plans of putting them all in a small museum, once I get around to building the room for them (pics will be up soon as that's done)


----------



## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

The peeve I have about collecting car audio is that back in the day the equipment was worthless if it wasn't in use. We didn't buy it and shelf it, we used it. That's what made it great equipment was how it performed. If you are buying it just to look at it, you're missing the point of it all. 

My truck (a 1997 Ranger) is 100% 1999 and below and I beat the HELL out of it every day. It's the same stuff I have had in there since 1997. My Autotek 44 and 66 amps, my Coustic XM3, my Eclipse 54410 head, all of it still in use and still as great as it was back when I bought it all new. If I had it sitting in a closet then my daily drive would be missing it, but it isn't in a closet it is in my truck as it has been for 15+ years and if it were on a shelf instead I'd have missed 15+ years of awesome jams and entertainment. It's just sad to see something that has no other purpose in life but to produce music doing absolutely nothing at all but sitting on a shelf not producing anything and collecting dust. If you REALLY loved old school equipment you'd USE it. 

/Peeve.


----------



## daveds50 (Jun 10, 2011)

Car_Audionut said:


> Keep a handful of the ones you like and every couple of years have a tech replace the capacitors, re-flow the solder joints and bench test it. Might need to replace some transistors/resistors every now and then, but the best thing of all is you can extend the life of your gear.


 i'd say that on 50% of the old school equipment that i work on, is exactly that. rebuilds. other 50% is just repairs. because of some of the new school crap that is out there that are coming from reputable old school names, lots of people are moving back to old school gear. im starting to get 30-40 old school pieces in per week. 

i'd also say that 50% of that old school stuff, comes from right here on Diyma.  seems to be the most collectors here. 

if the person doing the rebuild uses quality capacitors, you wont need to rebuild it very often. new school China capacitors will need to be replaced every few years... but quality ones can last a really long time. i have a few very old Soundstreams, PPI's and ADS's that are still on the original caps. they are no worse than a freshly rebuilt one... which makes me believe that some pieces of my collection were very lightly used. 

i have a collection too. however, most was bought broken, then fixed. so not much money involved. there are some pretty good pieces i have that will never be sold, but i do use them. 

there are also some pretty crappy 1970's-1980's pieces that i have, that most of you would wonder why anyone would have that... and thats because that is what i had way back then... a nostalgia thing, rather than a desire thing. no, they will never be used... but most of them are worthless to anyone but me anyway. ( like a Craig Powerplay 8-Track :laugh: ) 

so why do we collect ? because we can ! and it's quite enjoyable.


----------



## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

Why does all of the older car audio stuff look so good ? silk screening perfection, art, chrome shrouds and back in the day full on showoff installs. 

A museum would be so damn awesome including interactive interviews of all the car audio pioneers and their builds before they get to old and cranky


----------



## Car_Audionut (Jun 9, 2010)

Prime mova said:


> Why does all of the older car audio stuff look so good ? silk screening perfection, art, chrome shrouds and back in the day full on old school showoff installs...


Because it was quality stuff. Whenever I look at a Rockford Power 1000 with a chrome shroud or an original PPI Art series amp (which I've owned and regret selling), I recall the days when amps were under rated. I've paid 400-500 dollars for 100 quality watts. 

Ever since the mid 90's when the high end market started declining it's been about more power for less money even if it just sounds mediocre (most of the current population listens to iPods and computer speakers).


----------



## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Ok, let's all go out on a limb together and look to the future.
> Maybe, just maybe, what's going on here on DIYMA might be the 1st stages toward an honest to goodness old school car audio hall of fame museum.
> This is how things such as museums get started.
> The 1st step is to preserve and protect these treasures from destruction which is what we have already done and are continuing to do.
> ...




Dude.

That might be the greatest post in the history of DIYMA.

Can you imagine: taking your grandkids the AutoSound Hall of Fame & History museum someday?



Best.

Day.

Ever.


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

That's why we built this... It's our little museum on wheels... Lol


----------



## spydertune (Sep 9, 2005)

MikeT1982 said:


> 1. I will own them untill i die and the amps will go into the hands of people who have no idea what the hell they are and no appreciation of them!
> 
> *You'll be dead and won't care.*
> 
> ...


My comments in *bold*.


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Chaos said:


> Dude.
> 
> That might be the greatest post in the history of DIYMA.
> 
> ...


Thank you. 

Yes I can imagine that.
Until then, I will continue to build my own rolling old school museum. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Micksh said:


> That's why we built this... It's our little museum on wheels... Lol


Yeah....just like that! :thumbsup:

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Turtl3Sh3ll (May 3, 2012)

good read - Video Review – Why Men need Visions and Dreams by Dr. Myles Munroe « My Pen and My Paper - will turn it into a toastmaster speech on e of these days !


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Ok, let's all go out on a limb together and look to the future.
> Maybe, just maybe, what's going on here on DIYMA might be the 1st stages toward an honest to goodness old school car audio hall of fame museum.
> This is how things such as museums get started.
> The 1st step is to preserve and protect these treasures from destruction which is what we have already done and are continuing to do.
> ...


I unfortunately sold all my old-school stuff over the years, from Oz Supermans, Blade M-Series amps, Orion HCCA amps, Autotek amps, Hifonics Series VII, etc. etc....except for my Blade 3-way electronic crossover that is still in my vehicle...But your point about showing and displaying the old pics is something I try to do. As a matter of fact, I'm putting together a display of pictures of installs to show at IASCA INAC Finals in Indy in October. I hate to see what many of the installs have turned into now, bare wood, spaghetti wiring, fire hazards. I keep hoping showing these and also taking that Astro to demo and show will inspire some people to care about their installs like everyone did in the 90's. We shall see, but I will keep trying!


----------



## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

First off I want to say Micksh I love the van, I secretly lust for an Astro van almost weekly to do the same thing.

I have recently purchased some of the amps from the 90s that I lusted after, to then turnaround and sell or trade them for something else. Unlike some others I intend to use everything I buy, however I realized that I cannot actually "use" every amp I love. I just moved my PPI 2350DM and A1200 because I realized without an Astro van to put them in they are just too much power. I did however pick-up 2 of my other favorite amps in the process, a 5075DX and a PG Outlaw, these amps are more reasonable in their power numbers so I can actually use them.

As far as this "hobby" dying out, I like to believe that "made in the USA" will mean something for many years to come. I can only wait till the day that my daughter (currently 5) is rocking an old school set of amps behind her IPAD 8, lol. Then all her friends want old school amps too, we have to teach the next generation why we love these power hungry boat anchors. 

Additionally we need to "keep them on the road" when it comes to our old school amps. Fix them, dont replace them and if you can, refurbish them. Every day I see people not only doing electrical repairs/improvements but I see them refurbishing chassis and re-screening amps. We need to get some chrome platers and silkscreeners sucked into our world to really continue this movement.


----------



## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

As long as I have my Arts, there will always be two twenty year olds in the back seat!!


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow guys, you are awesome! This is turning into one hell of a post! That van… That is sick. That is exactly the kind of vehicle I dream of but with my crossfires and Digital 95 triple stacked original DD's. And in the form of a cut through white S-10 extreme with a hearse style no window leer cap. either that or old mmats juggernauts. Or US Amps on JL's for Christ same, two other companies I absolutely love to death. That v style wall and the surfboards, I love JL it was my favorite company for about for five years I would not touch anything else. man oh man I wish I could hear that van. Old-school warm running amp sucking class AB surfboards you can't get any better than that that's seriously got me hyped up!! I too dream of an Astro van or Cutthrough S-10 many times throughout the day I think about this. Oh and to the fella that mentioned about the planet audio vacuum tube amps… I remember those very well!!, a local tiny stereo shop at them and they were amazing. I wish I had one too, awesome!! Old-school audio museum is an incredible concept! I wonder if it would be safe to say that there are only a few hundred of us at most in the world that are into this particular nich? Anyways thanks a ton for the posts, I am sorry I don't contribute here more and frequent this place more like some of you diehards. all the props and respect to the elders here, especially the ones who worked in the industry as that is where I learned what I know from in many of you were doing this so long that later 90s When i got into it would seem like new school!  speaking of old-school though my latest hobby is building single driver backloaded horns powered by vacuum tube amps! 3.5 wrms per channel. So although I said that my stuff sits in boxes, I do still practice audio!!! To keep it real I also have a solid-state system of NAD and Klipsch with a Velodyne 1200 W Class D amped powered subwoofer  But I still think that my OZ Superman components so smooth back then or MB Quarts so bright and sharp sounded better than my Klipsch towers! And regardless of sound quality and whatnot there is nothing like a 20 pound amplifier that sucks 80 A and would dim your headlights and warm up, you could pretty much feel the power, very similar to an old carbureted V8 big block  before I could afford adequate charging systems, I remember my Precision PowerPC 2150 running s jl trio..one day as I was leaving high school I couldn't find any problems other than no power to the back… I open the hood my fuse holder was melted molten plastic dripping down the battery! And another time I was driving my geo metro through town and got flagged down because people wanted to hear the system as they hadn't heard anything like this before, with six JL's off of PPI power so I am cruising along bassin and all of a sudden my lights start going dim, very dim off! Then the car stalls! I pull over my car won't even start, open the hood the battery was boiling acid! Had to call dad to come with an old tractor battery so I can get the damn thing home!!


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

If it wasn't for the motor getting replaced in the Astro, it would probably be in Erie this weekend... It'll be in Indy for sure in October so long as everything is good with the new motor. Maybe I'll post some videos on the forum later today to show the install better and a little of what it is capable of too... :thumbsup:


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

I have a down rite ( passion ) for old school audio and it's those of us who collect and use it have the appreciation of its worth, reminds me of an old PPI 4100 AM I bought for parts repair from eBay. Person that had it before the seller put i want to say 2 large tube of liquid nail all over the circuit board an threw in 23 button cell batteries to the mix and closed the lid on it, the seller got the bottom cover off but it was badly damaged it was in pieces when I got it.i used a heat gun to remove all the liquid nail an ran jumpers to put the board back together used a torch to straighten the bottom cover out fixed the original problem which was a blown channel and ive been using it sounds amazing. It's this kind of love that I have for old school going the extra mile to bring back to life things that others just might discard so yep I'll just go on collecting cause to me there's just nothing like old school y'all have a bless one


----------



## spydertune (Sep 9, 2005)

Ampman said:


> Person that had it before the seller put i want to say 2 large tube of liquid nail all over the circuit board an threw in 23 button cell batteries to the mix and closed the lid on it,


I remember that mod. Supposedly the only way you could beat the Richard Clark challenge.


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

spydertune said:


> I remember that mod. Supposedly the only way you could beat the Richard Clark challenge.


haha for sure


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm mannnn, liquid nails and button cells that's insane! They guy musta done that just for cruel entertainment. Kind of like one of my only bad eBay incidences (3 out of 140 or so) ..it was the summer of 2000....the PPI A404 SHOWED UP WITH NO PACKAGING no box!!, wrapped in an entire roll of duct tape like a mummy, LMFAO!! basically a grey sticky blob with a packaging label!! Hey Micksh do you have those 3 USA800's (or VLX400's) one on each JL W6 trio? That's a lot of power for them!! LoL how do they handle that? Of course as long as you know what your doing which obviously you sure as hell do you can have an amp way over capable and throttle it judiciously and have a setup safer than under powering because the power is so clean! Gosh that must sound nice!! Is there a way for people to see the plexi side and see what a real amp's guts look like? :-D LOVE that van!


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

MikeT1982 said:


> I'm mannnn, liquid nails and button cells that's insane! They guy musta done that just for cruel entertainment. Kind of like one of my only bad eBay incidences (3 out of 140 or so) ..it was the summer of 2000....the PPI A404 SHOWED UP WITH NO PACKAGING no box!!, wrapped in an entire roll of duct tape like a mummy, LMFAO!! basically a grey sticky blob with a packaging label!! Hey Micksh do you have those 3 USA800's (or VLX400's) one on each JL W6 trio? That's a lot of power for them!! LoL how do they handle that? Of course as long as you know what your doing which obviously you sure as hell do you can have an amp way over capable and throttle it judiciously and have a setup safer than under powering because the power is so clean! Gosh that must sound nice!! Is there a way for people to see the plexi side and see what a real amp's guts look like? :-D LOVE that van!


Dang that is a bit extreme, can't top the shipping thing but I did buy an old school G&S designs Preditor series II from ebay and when I got it the guy sent it in a bubble envelop lol I thought what in tarnation is that lol


----------



## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

while were telling war stories i went on craigslist and found a audiocontrol system 90 model 48,so long story short it was just refurbed buy audiocontrol in the original box i got it(stole it)for 15 bucks...WHAT! look's 8.5/10 works 10/10
it's been in my car working flawlessly for over 3 year's
on egay i got my ppi PC2600.2 9/10with q bass knob and a PC250 8/10 both with plugs and working 100%(package deal)for 150 with overnight shipping no BS oh yeah they were packaged perfectly
i guess those weren't war stories more like bragging


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

That's some awesome catches man, it's knowledge of what is good amongst a sea of people who don't care or know what it is! I tell the younger crowd at work every day that if they gave me a budget and let me pick oldschool stuff off eBay I would set them up with a hell of a statem. They say hell no i want a warranty! So I need you to install this Kenwood two 12" sub and 1000 watt Amp combo I just got for $169 from www.captain-ripoff.com!! LoL. And I need those twelves in a .3 cube per woofer truck box under the seat! Will it still hit hard even though the seat holds the cones still? Oh crap that reminds me!! This actual guys system I did the install on he grabbed a set of Walmart Sony 6.5's for me to put in his doors, gues what I found already in there, old green cone infinity kappas, he INSISTED I take the old crap out and keep it or throw it away!! :-D They made a nice garage system with a discman into a Soundstream Reference 200 and a little 20 amp power supply!!


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

MikeT1982 said:


> I'm mannnn, liquid nails and button cells that's insane! They guy musta done that just for cruel entertainment. Kind of like one of my only bad eBay incidences (3 out of 140 or so) ..it was the summer of 2000....the PPI A404 SHOWED UP WITH NO PACKAGING no box!!, wrapped in an entire roll of duct tape like a mummy, LMFAO!! basically a grey sticky blob with a packaging label!! Hey Micksh do you have those 3 USA800's (or VLX400's) one on each JL W6 trio? That's a lot of power for them!! LoL how do they handle that? Of course as long as you know what your doing which obviously you sure as hell do you can have an amp way over capable and throttle it judiciously and have a setup safer than under powering because the power is so clean! Gosh that must sound nice!! Is there a way for people to see the plexi side and see what a real amp's guts look like? :-D LOVE that van!


Yes, each VLX-400 is running three...actually, the amps just aren't seeing enough load (there is a 3x box rise at I believe 50hz we clamped it at) so we aren't seeing the full potential of those amps. We only clamped about 1200 out of each amp. (Yeah I know, rise isn't a big deal generally, but when you are trying for something loud, it does matter some...lol) It does 153.4 dB sealed up on the dash as it sits, with a newer American Bass amp clamping a little over 8000 watts, it did around a 156. It sounds amazing though, especially since the JL's weren't recommended for a bandpass box.

Here's a pic of the amps....


----------



## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

^ Bad a$$ fo sho


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

BEAUTIFUL!! 150's sealed that is awesome man. I never realized that with impedance rise you could manipulate power like that. I actually forgot about impedance rise ever since i used to play with Veritas Accumatches with my old mmats HCs!! Sweet, I follow! The dampening factor of those amps and high S/N ratio along with .008 THD and you're not even working them to half their regular duty, yet they are making massive power. I bet it is an ULTRA ultra clean 154-157!!


----------



## spydertune (Sep 9, 2005)

1styearsi said:


> while were telling war stories i went on craigslist and found a audiocontrol system 90 model 48.......it's been in my car working flawlessly for over 3 year's


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

LoL! He just means stories of the deals we scored like the kid who insisted i take out those g*d da*n pos Infinity Kappas from his doors at once and replace with the xplodes!! And keep stupid green speakers....and crap we've dealt with like my mummy-art amp! LoL his Audio Control catch most def fits into the prior!


----------



## MikeGratton (Aug 17, 2012)

What is anyone thoughts on N.O.S. amps.I am getting back into creating a system after having to drop out to care for family in the 90's.

I LOVE The Soundstream chrome tarantula series amps 880/2-500/4 etc - if I can get a "new"(still in sealed box) never used one-I imagine it should have a decent amount of use left (do components degrade with age even without use?)


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey man, thats something I'm very curious about also. I think a lot has been written on it as I run across various posts talking a little here and there on component degradation. Some of the guys on here are geniuses and they seem to say caps spoil and leak in time and amps in partic need upkeep. I am curious though just how long is the expiration date. Or is there none and do caps slowly fall out of tolerance and finally it is enough to cause loss of performance or other parts to pop due to the cap not doing its job. I don't see resitors or transistors degrading as they aren't fluid filled and tend to be more stable components (not degrading without use...use and heating them up is a different story)

So my questions for both us would be is there a difference in rate and degradation between once energized/used equipment vs NIB stuff. Can you keep old stuff healthy by running it regularly. For example my best freind has a 1997 eclipse with original electronics and engine computer and programmers that still function perfectly as the day the "old school technology" was installed, and the fella with the van above with 3 US Amps VLX400's I doubt (not being sarcastic) he replaced all those caps (55,000 of them.... Or 35,000 600 amp MOSFETS) :-D So is it preventative maintenance or overkill? Or could we pull a NIB amp out and screw it up by firing it up and not checking componenent tolerances first? Many including the van fella probably did check cap tolerances I could bet first before employing the stuff. I wondering how crazy is too crazy, do you check uF capacitance and ESR or just do a visual check for no electrolyte corrosion leakage etc? Appreciate it guys!


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

MikeT1982 said:


> Can you keep old stuff healthy by running it regularly. For example my best freind has a 1997 eclipse with original electronics and engine computer and programmers that still function perfectly as the day the "old school technology" was installed, and the fella with the van above with 3 US Amps VLX400's I doubt (not being sarcastic) he replaced all those caps.


Correct there...one of the amps was repaired in 1996 I believe it was, and then after about 1998 they sat in a closet up until March of this year. They are all working great...


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Awesome Micksh that's great to know


----------



## MikeGratton (Aug 17, 2012)

Thank you for the great replies!! I am going to grab one...or two..or..:0 I knew I was going to-how can I resist LOL The 40's are the new 30's no? 

Your posts made sense and I feel more confident now..of course no guarantee . I will enjoy firing up some Soundstream -it has been toooo long !


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

That's great Mike! Your welcome, Let us know how it goes!  Soundstream is one of my very favorites!


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

I went ahead and put up a somewhat detailed build log of the Astro if anyone is interested, along with some video links if you are all interested. http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/134956-astro-van-9-jl18w6-3-u-s-amps-vlx-400-a.html


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow thanks man, I will def have to check that out, I am running short on sleep so I am going to save it for tomorrow during downtime at work! And I just saw and realized those are JL **18"** W6's not 15's!!!! Sweeeeet!! That is one sub from JL that I never got to hear! I want to add this just for the heck of it but the JL W0 was my all-time favorite sub for squeezing the maximum SPL and excursion out of extremely little power! the W6 was the best monster and combo of sound quality and SPL and power handling to me! I never much cared for the W1's or W4's but I think my favorite all-time JL was the first generation of W3's. A JL rep once told me that they were what you would get if a W6 and W0 had sex... A good sound too high excursion that could handle more power yet still be efficient like a W0. Three 10" w3's driven by an oldschool mmats D200HC ([email protected]) so 400wrms per sub since I got ahold of dual 6 ohm coil woofers and paralleled everything. I scored 144.7 on the dash of my Dodge neon with the box firing backwards (sealed tightly inline .75cubes per sub) On an old-school audio control meter. I truly still wish they made the first generation of W3. Either way the W6 is my absolute favorite JL speaker and legendary… I wish I had bought up a trio of the anniversary edition 1993-2003 W6's when they were available. However your van using 18 inch W6's, nine of them, is unrivaled! You couldn't have used a better sub and amp combo in my opinion! 

Edit- other than 3 PPI A1200's.... however you would not have the surfboard amp with quad power ground 800 amp current draw factor! LoL


----------



## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

My all time favorite were the first 15w3. I tried hurting one in an SPL test box back then and couldn't, even with over 2000 watts. Ended up playing 20hz free air before I could hurt it. Lol. The van I built at the shop I worked at back then had 16-15w1 and four A1200,before we switched to four VLX-400...


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Nice!! As a matter of fact, there was an installer at my favorite shop who had a Honda CRX and wanted to make a point, using a cheap Clarion Class D mono block rated at 1,000wrms (this was early 2000's as everyone was jumping on the 1000wrms class d mono block bandwagon) and powering a 15W3 in a ported box, was scoring consistent 151.something on the dash. I was amazed at that time 151 on the dash didn't happen without a wall! Albeit it was a tiny car, but this is with one battery and the stock alternator! this fellow also designed a sound Q car for his girlfriend that won 1st place in Iasca and was very smart and a good fabricator. I thought it was neat that the W3's used an "EROM" style of design similar to Digital, but muchh more efficient motor. Speaking of these SPL scores am I the only one who's ears were calibrated to an audio control and still to this day if I ever built in SPL vehiclewould like to get a hold of an old audio control meter? LOL it was with an audio control that I first broke the 140 dB barrier and also that I first broke the 150 db barrier, that took years of work and hard earned money! I feel kind of cheated with the newer megawatt amps that have so much raw power that you can literally hook them wIth a
a good power supply and decent box design and you have a ticket to the Upper 140's to 150s. Kind of like if you have the money you can easily buy a 13 seconds quarter-mile car today, no fun :-/


----------



## Doc ProMos (Jul 1, 2012)

I have refrained from posting on this topic because what I think about it gets the New School's panties in a wad... I collect and use the old school amps I buy... I think several people have said it more eloquently than I can, Bret and Itchy are 2 that stick out to me... Some people are out with the old... but I want my kids to be able to listen to the bliss that comes from a great install of old school gear... I often tell my friends that think i am crazy, there is just a different sound, like comparing Mp3 to old vinyl on a nice turn table... it's just not the same... to me old school gear has the sound that's missing today--- it doesn't matter what test are done to compare... if I take a photo into photoshop and open up the histogram and slide in the right side where its flat to where its not, to brighten it up, I've altered the picture... some might say they are correcting the light, some might say they do it to make it look better... to me it's not better, it's altered.... well that's the way I look at old school audio...the ends of the range aren't cut to make it sound better, or to give it better numbers, I just get the meat and potatoes served to me with all the fixin's and no parsley or garnishments...
At the same time I want to preserve what i can so it doesn't die out and I can share my dinner with the next generation... 

Keith
Doc ProMos


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Doc ProMos said:


> I have refrained from posting on this topic because what I think about it gets the New School's panties in a wad... I collect and use the old school amps I buy... I think several people have said it more eloquently than I can, Bret and Itchy are 2 that stick out to me... Some people are out with the old... but I want my kids to be able to listen to the bliss that comes from a great install of old school gear... I often tell my friends that think i am crazy, there is just a different sound, like comparing Mp3 to old vinyl on a nice turn table... it's just not the same... to me old school gear has the sound that's missing today--- it doesn't matter what test are done to compare... if I take a photo into photoshop and open up the histogram and slide in the right side where its flat to where its not, to brighten it up, I've altered the picture... some might say they are correcting the light, some might say they do it to make it look better... to me it's not better, it's altered.... well that's the way I look at old school audio...the ends of the range aren't cut to make it sound better, or to give it better numbers, I just get the meat and potatoes served to me with all the fixin's and no parsley or garnishments...
> At the same time I want to preserve what i can so it doesn't die out and I can share my dinner with the next generation...
> 
> Keith
> Doc ProMos


Rite there with you Doc ? AMEN to that


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

Micksh said:


> That's why we built this... It's our little museum on wheels... Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

That's beautiful man! Extremely clean and it looks like the Rockford gear is brand-new, like I took a time machine back into the 1990s! lovely  this thread and you guys installs is really getting me hyped up, it is really motivating me to eventually get some gear out running, out of the box is collecting dust  being that I am now I sound quality home audio guy mostly, back when I was into car audio I was mostly into SPL. I am very tempted to build a small ported box with a single juggernaut first-generation 12 and one of my modded mmats D300HC and just scotch locking into my daily driver Honda accord coupe's 6 x 9 speakers to a line level converter and hitting up the local SPL shows with the new crowd and taking it back out *evil smile* I know there is some megawatts stuff out today but I think I would hold my own pretty good  especially if I ohmed it down and added a couple deep cycle batteries rented from Walmart… LOL. I know that most of you probably would not consider and mmats to be old-school, to me it was because it came out right at the end of our golden AB era, and as much as I hated it I loved it because the build quality was there and they pioneered the Class D. Then once everybody else jumped on the class the bandwagon that's a different story… Other than crossfire I respect them too  LOL! Don't worry precision Power, phoenix, sound stream, Orion, Rockford, kicker, and of course my beloved US amps and linear power etc etc… They have first place in my heart  just holding and looking at my mmats D300HC weighing 15lbs and having a big capacitor hanging out the side, and nice knobs for gain and x over, along with the badging stating "Class D Power amplifier, Ultra-Efficient High Current Output and "made in Florida" and the thick circuit board with an engraved American flag and "1996" etched in is enough to win my oldschool approval badge  now the new mmats...not my cup of tea in the looks department.


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks!

Show us a pic of that amp bro!!


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Your very welcome man! It is a beautiful system and really makes me feel good like the van setup seeing it!!! I think the hobby lost alot of good guys over time due to the demands of work and family and everyday life, but some of us managed to hang on and just couldn't let go of our love for it...the equipment and the joy you get when you hear crisp clean highs and loud clean bass out of the very equipment that brought us pleasure back then. I think it is partly pride of our generation since we were there when car audio craze came about (not quite for me getting into it in 1996 but i loved it so much and had respect for and learned from guys who saw the start of it in the 80's back then!!). For example my cousin who got out of car audio in 1994, he saw the start and is an "elder" in my eyes like many of you whom i respect very much. My MMATS D300HC is one of my favorites in my collection as back then i used to own non-modded black D200HC's. The one ohm rms amps. I always saw the guys running modded 2 ohm D300HC's and ohmed down to make up for impedance rise...the heavy hitters like john henry and jay lovelace. I wonder what those guys are up to these days! I heard henry was head of treo or whatnot. Super cool, i love treo although i havent owned. Thats awesome that some of these shop owners back then have become audio company ceo's  So anyways i bought this white modded d300hc a few years ago from a nice fella when i saw it for sale because it looked perfect cosmetically (had some scuffs i cleaned up to mint looking) and i wanted it in my arsenal to show later generations what we are all about...if i should happen to need to compete or build a simple loud spl system that is where i fantasize of using it. Kind of like how i fantasize of using my art amps for a sound Q setup some day. Anyways i talked to my buddy whom i sent pictures of it to back when i cleaned and opened it for inspection, but he seems to have lost the pics. idiot me i didnt save them. It really isnt anything special if you know what a white d300hc looks like, but it definitely represents the oldschool sturdy design and such and gives the adreneline rush seeing the circuit board!  Just like i got from the JL US amps van and your Rockford setup!!!  it is tough to maintain a moral when 99% of the people out there seem to either think we are nuts and wasting our time or the newschoolers say we're old farts...that is why we must remain as a band of brothers so to speak lol. Thank gosh this forum came about! Hopefully our love for this vintage equipment will be passed down to future generations like vintage muscle cars were, albeit on a smaller scale


----------



## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

I have been collecting old school Nakamichi (black box years) equipment for 30 years and have many pieces that are still NIB. My collection is so extensive that it is literally laying everywhere. Good part is that I can buy something and the wife never notices.

I have many of the same fears that you do. Selling it is not important to me ...I don't need the money. I'd rather have my collection. Even if I did sell something it is not a 'life altering' amount of $$$. 

My biggest fear is that my wife will sell this stuff for what I told her I paid for it instead of what it is really worth. :laugh:


----------



## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

MikeT1982, 
I'm a year younger than you so a lot of what you are saying resonates with me, especially some of the popular-at-the-time amps/subs you mention as well as the audiocontrol meters. I turned 16 in '99 and I started competing in SPL with three 10w0's as soon as I got my own ride. I had been learning about car audio since I was a teenager through magazines and hanging out at shops before I could even drive. I can remember spending entire Saturdays riding my bike around the whole city and listening to every soundboard at every shop/store. I think I was lucky that the shop owners in my city were laid back and they enjoyed supporting young kids who were interested in the field. One of the shops had a demo room built to mimic a car interior complete with seats and a "dash" and they had interchangeable pods with all of their different offerings so you could swap them out and do a/b comparisons. That shop used to let me bring my own cd's in to listen to and if it wasn't busy we would just JAM OUT for hours.

With that said, I have the same fears as you but #1 is big with me. I can't STAND the thought of some idiot kid unknowingly getting his hands on some old school beauty and destroying it out of ignorance and then chucking it in the trash. That's why I don't ever put my stuff up on ebay when I decide to sell it because I don't know who it's going to. 

I think it's important, though, to evolve with the progression of modern trends and gear while still enjoying and appreciating our roots. That's what makes it special. A person will go nowhere if they are stuck in the old school and refuse to evolve. I took a break from car audio in the mid 2000's to pursue a career as a machinist. I enjoy it, but I recently got back into audio this past year and have spent an incredible amount of time getting up to date with what's popular now. I still want to dig in the car audio closet and do a killer old school install some time soon but there are also so many new offerings that I want to try... ugh!


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

MikeT... I hear you man, I hear you!





hurrication said:


> I think it's important, though, to evolve with the progression of modern trends and gear while still enjoying and appreciating our roots. !


I couldn't agree more with that statement!

My current "no holds barred" system I'm working on right now is mostly modern gear save for the amplifiers. Even though there are some fantastic "new school" amps out there, I'm still personally an advocate of the older generation. I'll have to admit however, that I'm using newer processors as well as new school drivers 

For me, referring to the "old school" gear, it has little to do with performance. It's really all about the nostalgia effect. Just looking at certain pieces of gear (especially if I can physically hold it) makes me reminisce of years past.

For instance, over the past couple of years I've picked up a couple of the older white powder coated Profile "California" amps. Now these guys were certainly never considered "cream of the crop", but they were some of the very first amps that my buddies and I started using. Ordering them "snail mail" from Wholesale houses..LOL I'm not sure if I'll ever use them, but just looking at them on occasion reminds me of the time frame when we were using them like: my first car, highschool days, haging out at the b-ball courts and bumpn' our systems etc... 

So some people simply use their photo albums to take them back... I can get the same effect with car audio gear...lol


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes! I couldn't agree more/relate to what all three of you guys said. I know, I too fantasize of using my art amps with modern Image Dynamics components! (they're still around I hope lol!) no shops had them here back in the day and I has heard nothing but good and am curious if they're more like my old oz audio super and and soft or sharp and shrill like my old quarts! JL W0's a trio!! Same here bro, I remember wanting a 140dB on the audio control so bad and being stuck at 136 with my two JL W1's prefab wedge and PC250 so i traded in on a straight in line trio of 10" W0's and a PC275 (eauiv of A300.2) and with just 300wrms did a 140.7 that day in the lot!!! I installed it in the lot of the dealer too! I was soo happy  Yes I fear some kid getting our equipment and throwing it on the trunk floor with some 8 gauge and a walmart band pass box and cranking every adjustment to the max and tossing softdrink cups on it LoL!! Yeah the times when I didn't have a thing To worry about other than going to sleep at night reading car audio magazines and waking up to be greeted by my cars system on the ride to school and daydreaming all day of what new amp I wish I had! (was the mmats when I heard of th powering strokers and juggs making big numbers! I loved Alma Gates and ppi but couldn't get mad as the numbers out of these little cool looking amps were mind blowing! LoL Good times, good times we all had!!! 


Edit - I just realized that I forgot to add about one of you guys above saying 30 years of collecting, that is awesome… I have a feeling many of us this originated independently with no idea that there is anybody else out there with the similar interest! I know I didn't know! We still are very rare though but at least we have a common meeting ground from all over the United States or world to talk… This forum! So thank you very very much to the originator! at the storage, it kind of night is nice having a lot of equipment as my wife doesn't notice things either LOL it just blends in like a brick in the pile LOL! I especially have been trying to stop doing eBay scriptures and whatnot though because I have bills to pay down and that doesn't help at all!  The exact same idea applies to me too! if I were to sell it would not be a debt altering amount of money which is why i would rather hold on to them and pay my debts off and then enjoy them  but if I should have to I know that you guys are here and eBay just should I have to unload certain assets in an emergency. Our equipment is like disguised assets and away  oh and one more thing, I happen to live almost directly across the street from the UPS station so it is too easy to have the package held there and pick it up on the way to work… Something I feel bad about but it helps when I don't want to bring up the purchase to the wife quite yet. It doesn't help with spending habit! FYI guys most UPS stations I have found are willing to hold something for you with no special arrangements, simply call the local station and request holding and read them your tracking number mid transit, anytime in transit and as long as they're friendly they will never attempt delivery and just hold it there for two weeks! Although I advocate honesty, if I would have discovered this i could've prevented some altercations with my parents also back in the day! LOL


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

Werd


----------



## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

MikeT1982 said:


> I loved Alma Gates and ppi but couldn't get mad as the numbers out of these little cool looking amps were mind blowing! LoL Good times, good times we all had!!!


One of my favorite memories in my life so far was being 19 and heading up to Kansas City for Usaci world finals '03. It was at a time in my life like you mentioned - no worries at all and all the only thing you care about is getting in your car in the morning and bumping. Some friends and I saved up like a thousand dollars and we drove up there from Arkansas and the whole weekend was pretty much one giant party with other like minded car stereo dudes from all over the country. I looked older than I really was so I never got carded for alcohol and I can remember throwing down so many of those drinks they served in the 2 foot long skinny plastic glasses and demoing as many cars as I could. The reason I mention this is because at this event is when I finally got to meet Alma Gates. She had already switched to Kicker, but it was still incredible telling her how much of an inspiration her bronco was to me over the years.


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

That is AWESOME man!!! Thank you for sharing!


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Been thinking a lot about this, I've collected so many amps that are not the status quote ( mint condition ) my biggest fears are now who would want them if a major crisis were to come up in my life and needed to sale a few things to kinda help out if need be I'm praying that never happens but there's always that what if. This has really got me thinking hummm ?


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Myself as well man, I really hope such a situation never happens to any of us but if it does I worry if the timing will land right that someone who's into that type of gear who will respect it as well as pay top dollar for it will be available to purchase it. Or will I be forced to make a short sale in desperation :-/ or if something happened to me..just like one of you said above there are quite a few pieces that no one but myself knows what I have in them, not even the wife. That goes along with living by the ups station and also having many in generic boxes so adding another goes un-noticed. I also collect vintage lighting gear and electronics stuff and worry about this as its been both a curse and a blessing. A lot of the stuff I wasn't allowed to buy and couldn't afford when I was younger and now there's credit cards and hiding space :-/ LoL. Now I mean I pay them off, sometimes slowly but they allow impulse purchases. For example if a Soundstream Reference Class A 3.0 Or 6.0 NIB or even a NIB Reference 500 showed up I can't say I would have the integrity to not buy it now. Because I've never seen a NIB one and they were three of my fav amps. Even though I'm working to pay down thousands of house renovation bills now and will be for a few years :-/


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Planning a fall wedding next year to an awesome lady that I'm blessed beyond measure to have in my life and I'm just hoping me collecting a few things from time to time will not cause me any troubles, she knows I do but she don't know what I spend at times to get um most of what I get though are items at low prices I try not to go over a certain amount and so far there's not any issues but after the I do's who knows what will happen lol


----------



## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

Ampman said:


> Planning a fall wedding next year to an awesome lady that I'm blessed beyond measure to have in my life and I'm just hoping me collecting a few things from time to time will not cause me any troubles, she knows I do but she don't know what I spend at times to get um most of what I get though are items at low prices I try not to go over a certain amount and so far there's not any issues but after the I do's who knows what will happen lol


:bulb: ...Just cover said in the Prenup...:cwm15:


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

LoL!!!


----------



## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Tooo funny ?


----------



## Iron Maiden (Jul 13, 2008)

Micksh said:


> That's why we built this... It's our little museum on wheels... Lol





Thanks for posting photo. Love the old school setups.


----------



## Iron Maiden (Jul 13, 2008)

hurrication said:


> One of my favorite memories in my life so far was being 19 and heading up to Kansas City for Usaci world finals '03. It was at a time in my life like you mentioned - no worries at all and all the only thing you care about is getting in your car in the morning and bumping. Some friends and I saved up like a thousand dollars and we drove up there from Arkansas and the whole weekend was pretty much one giant party with other like minded car stereo dudes from all over the country. I looked older than I really was so I never got carded for alcohol and I can remember throwing down so many of those drinks they served in the 2 foot long skinny plastic glasses and demoing as many cars as I could. The reason I mention this is because at this event is when I finally got to meet Alma Gates. She had already switched to Kicker, but it was still incredible telling her how much of an inspiration her bronco was to me over the years.





Great lady, I have spoken to Mrs. Alma over the years online. Late 90's early 2000. Very kind and give lots of great advice and encouragement.


----------



## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

Doc ProMos said:


> I have refrained from posting on this topic because what I think about it gets the New School's panties in a wad... I collect and use the old school amps I buy... I think several people have said it more eloquently than I can, Bret and Itchy are 2 that stick out to me... Some people are out with the old... but I want my kids to be able to listen to the bliss that comes from a great install of old school gear... I often tell my friends that think i am crazy, there is just a different sound, like comparing Mp3 to old vinyl on a nice turn table... it's just not the same... to me old school gear has the sound that's missing today--- it doesn't matter what test are done to compare... if I take a photo into photoshop and open up the histogram and slide in the right side where its flat to where its not, to brighten it up, I've altered the picture... some might say they are correcting the light, some might say they do it to make it look better... to me it's not better, it's altered.... well that's the way I look at old school audio...the ends of the range aren't cut to make it sound better, or to give it better numbers, I just get the meat and potatoes served to me with all the fixin's and no parsley or garnishments...
> At the same time I want to preserve what i can so it doesn't die out and I can share my dinner with the next generation...
> 
> Keith
> Doc ProMos


A new warranty doesn't make it sound better. Just because you can transfer more current and voltage to the speakers more efficiently typically sounds that way. There is always a trade off. I remember the arguments when I first got started about class a and a/b is the efficiency worth it? I know that I have been very disappointed with the newer amps I have heard both output and sq. I took about 15-20 off of the car audio scene wow what a change. Durring the break i never needed anything because I had my ppi art series and hifonics that worked flawlessly. Warranty? How about my first two car amps working since 1981 and 1988 those have never been serviced. 

Amps have a sound. Just like speakers. I remember the first time on the pro-side I heard the demonstration of harmonics both sub and ultra sonics for recording equipment. Technically how could you hear this because your ears, the recording equipment, source, amps, and the speakers roll off much lower and higher than the harmonic eq or enhancer was adding in mastering but the effects were shocking. Anyway for another thread. 

My worst fear is not finding the equipment needed for a project. Second fear not being able to find parts to keep them going so my kids can enjoy good sound long after i have lost my hearing. I also worry they will not be able to realize how good they sound because of the over compressed music for the sake of convinence. This is not a bash on all new amps I have had heard a handful that are good but in deciding amps for my next project I have hooked up 11 brands and 40+ models to reference speakers and compare to reference level home amp. I still like my music!


----------



## zener (Sep 6, 2012)

Am a little afraid that my entire car will get stolen with my favorite gear inside, only to be destroyed by punks.

Or maybe that I will get in an accident, and while laid up in the hospital, my wife scraps the car with the gear inside.

Or perhaps that my hearing goes bad...


----------



## finbar (Feb 1, 2009)

The one that bothers me is the self refurbed amp's caps frag my ride.


----------



## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

My biggest fear is having something fail in my OS amps that i can't fix or get fixed and I can't enjoy listening to them anymore. 

I sound like the old school gurus when I first started in audio in the 80's about how good the old amps tube and class A sounded etc. "The new A/B amps don't sound as good." "For the sake of being more convenient, efficient and having more power." It is kind of like the day when you start saying to your kids the same things your parents and adults used to tell you. 

I really enjoy great sound and love to plan the next old school amp project. Kind of selfish I know.


----------

