# 2017 Subaru Crosstrek - Scanspeak, Helix, Fi, Zapco



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

This is going to be an ongoing build log. This is for one of my friends, John. Like many of us, he started off as a basshead. Problem is, hes not okay with trashing his new Subaru Crosstrek to hit a 150. After talking to me for a coupule of years, i may have converted him to the SQ side of things (aka, the better side  ), but he does still want more SPL than your average car audio enthusiast. 

His setup consists of

OEM Radio
Helix DSP.2 with Bluetooth HEC Card and Director
Zapco ST-2X
Zapco ST-4XSQ
Sundown SCV-3000
Scanspeak R2904/7000-05
JBl 6.5's (temporary while something else is being fabricated/installed  )
Fi Q Neo 12" 


The typical install stuff (running wires, sound deadening, box build, amp mounting, etc) is all being done by John. Im doing the fabrication and tuning.



First thing I did was black out the entire interior. You can find the photos and write up for that here..

https://www.facebook.com/pg/ApicellaAutoSound/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1827206584274947



Next comes the A-pillars. Like i said before, John has a need for output. More than most of us. We thought about HLCD's, but they didnt seem like they would fit without a ton of work. We started looking at high efficiency tweeters that sound great and could play down low since we were sticking with a two way setup. Lucky for him, i had a pair of Scanspeak R2904's sitting around that fit the bill and then some. I also may have convinced John to start competing. (back story: there are a ton of SQ enthusiats around the NY/NJ/PA/CT area, yet no events. i want to change that). Since he's open to the idea, i installed the tweeters/built these pillars to perform the best they possibly can, while keeping him in a MECA class that isnt unnecessarily high. Tweeters on axis (both aimed at opposite headrest), and placed as deep/wide as possible into the pillar, while not letting them protrude more than 3.5" as stated by the rules for MECA. They actually ended up only protruding 2.25 inches. So, here they are..


*note - the pillars pictured are a new set and not the ones we previously wrapped black.



Before
















Some test fitting and eye balling done inside the car let me know whats possible and where to cut.















Baffles were made, interior was taped, fiberglass mold was made, baffles were aimed via laser and attached. They were aimed at the opposite headrests.























Sorry for the lack of in-between pics.. but fabric was pulled and shaped and resin was applied. Fiberglass mat was then applied to strengthen it up, then body filler and sanding to give it its final shape. The next day, adhesive was applied for wrapping in matching black vinyl.























Done and installed. For the time being, John installed some cheap JBL 6.5's in the door and has his amp rack all wired up and ready for a beauty panel. We tuned the setup even though its not fully done, and my god.. no EQ needed aside from adjusting crossover for the driver side, and a couple small cuts on the passenger side. I was reminded why these are my favorite tweeters. They sound amazing. Almost wish i didnt sell them to him.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

sounds like my kinda build, simple and potent! what did you choose for box tuning? that neo motor has a ton of bl..should kick like a mule


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Lycancatt said:


> sounds like my kinda build, simple and potent! what did you choose for box tuning? that neo motor has a ton of bl..should kick like a mule


i had nothing to do with the enclosure. that was all John. I think he is at 32 HZ though. the enclosure is cool though. I'll have to get pics of it next time. Kerf port, painted black with orange splatter (matches the cars interior), and has an acrylic window to see the subs beautiful motor with an Fi Audio Logo CNC'd into it.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Opposite headrests ... I am a big believer.

Great job with the big boy tweets, hopefully the installer will be credited as much as the hardware. No easy task.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> Opposite headrests ... I am a big believer.
> 
> Great job with the big boy tweets, hopefully the installer will be credited as much as the hardware. No easy task.


although they seem somewhat simple, some careful planning went into these pillars between placement and aiming while taking their on/off frequency responses into account, as well as MECA Modified class rules. when i took the response measurement for the first tweeter my jaw dropped. seriously ruler flat.


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## makaman (Sep 13, 2016)

Very clean!!


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> although they seem somewhat simple, some careful planning went into these pillars between placement and aiming while taking their on/off frequency responses into account, as well as MECA Modified class rules. when i took the response measurement for the first tweeter my jaw dropped. seriously ruler flat.


I doubt none of that. Very impressive.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Are the small format revs anywhere near that good?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

dcfis said:


> Are the small format revs anywhere near that good?


you mean the small format illuminators? yes, they are also very good. but they cant play as low, and arent as efficient. i think these also just sound better in general. Probably the best tweeter i have ever used.


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Symmetrical all-wheel drive and a awesome system,what more can you ask for.Great work sir.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Symmetrical all-wheel drive and a awesome system,what more can you ask for.Great work sir.


a garage to work in 

thanks


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

[=SkizeR;5087866]a garage to work in 

thanks[/QUOTE]

Oh yea I know that feeling,regardless you turn out great work.Save up them pennies and make it happen.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> a garage to work in
> 
> thanks


Don't strap yourself down, stay mobile and go on the road with it. Find a buddy with a barn out in the country, pimp his rzr for some space in the corner when you need it. Well, at least that would work around here


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## Ziggyrama (Jan 17, 2016)

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Symmetrical all-wheel drive and a awesome system,what more can you ask for.Great work sir.


A small turbo in that rig would be a huge seller. Crosstrek seriously needs more power. Other than that it is a nice little SUV.

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ziggyrama said:


> A small turbo in that rig would be a huge seller. Crosstrek seriously needs more power. Other than that it is a nice little SUV.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Good luck modifying one. From what the owner told me, it was basically impossible to get more power out of this car

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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

The engines and transmissions of the crosstrek and outback are just appliances and only ment to do what they do. I've been a subaru guy since the 90s and the past decade has been painful in how out of date they have been. They sell every car they make so there isn't any incentive to change


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## Ziggyrama (Jan 17, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> Good luck modifying one. From what the owner told me, it was basically impossible to get more power out of this car
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


I wouldn't it on that car. Most NA cars are a waste of time for that. Best you can do is make it lighter and handle better to use the power you have more effectively. And that usually yields modest results and isn't very budget friendly. I've been tuning Subarus for power and handling for at least a decade so I am very familiar with these cars. That is why I would want Subaru to put a 2.0L turbo in it rather than me doing it . They can do it better and more reliably. Sorry, didn't mean to highjack your thread.

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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Ziggyrama said:


> I wouldn't it on that car. Most NA cars are a waste of time for that. Best you can do is make it lighter and handle better to use the power you have more effectively. And that usually yields modest results and isn't very budget friendly. I've been tuning Subarus for power and handling for at least a decade so I am very familiar with these cars. That is why I would want Subaru to put a 2.0L turbo in it rather than me doing it . They can do it better and more reliably. Sorry, didn't mean to highjack your thread.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


I like your thinking,we have a ‘16 Outback with the 4 banger definitely a turbo won’t hurt.Subarus will fly out of lots if turbos were offered in most of their lineup.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Very nice Subaru build and am looking forward to seeing the sub enclosure photos please. Also Subaru for the win lol and yes a turbo does a body good.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Nice work, pillars turned out nice with that big ass tweets!


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

Man you do amazing work! Nice job!


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## Grenadineflaps$ (Jul 1, 2017)

incredible work!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Grenadineflaps$ said:


> incredible work!!


Thanks. More from this car will be uploaded soon. I only get to work on it on Saturdays as my friend needs it during the week. Slow moving

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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

I got lots of garage space  - shop will hold at least ten cars... you'd be welcome anytime man but uh be a fee hrs drive away 


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

unix_usr said:


> I got lots of garage space  - shop will hold at least ten cars... you'd be welcome anytime man but uh be a fee hrs drive away
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will too very shortly 

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## Diesel (May 25, 2008)

In for future updates. Especially how to add a DSP to the Factory HU. My daily is a 2016 Outback HK/Nav.. I believe this type of integration is added after the HK amp to keep volume and other controls, but not positive. Hope this thread has the answers.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Diesel said:


> In for future updates. Especially how to add a DSP to the Factory HU. My daily is a 2016 Outback HK/Nav.. I believe this type of integration is added after the HK amp to keep volume and other controls, but not positive. Hope this thread has the answers.


We're not using the stock head unit. The owner ditched that idea. His wasn't HK anyway. Sorry :/

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## Diesel (May 25, 2008)

Thanks SkizeR. Still a good build to follow.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Hows this build coming? I am waiting to see what you do/did in the hatch.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

miniSQ said:


> Hows this build coming? I am waiting to see what you do/did in the hatch.


He wants to make changes to that so it's probably changing in the future. The door enclosures are done, just hard to get him back in here to finish the rest of our plan. He works for ups so gets very busy this time of year

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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> He wants to make changes to that so it's probably changing in the future. The door enclosures are done, just hard to get him back in here to finish the rest of our plan. He works for ups so gets very busy this time of year
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Off topic, but any updates on the shop's progress? I haven't seen that thread pop up in while...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> Off topic, but any updates on the shop's progress? I haven't seen that thread pop up in while...


Yup. Electrician is finishing adding 110 and 220 outlets. Everything is still a bit messy but the first car is in there as we speak.

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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice work as usual Nick. The pillars came out great.


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

I really like this, just curious what is the wiring for this system like? Batts? Runs of 0 gauge, alternator? 


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ImLoudEK said:


> I really like this, just curious what is the wiring for this system like? Batts? Runs of 0 gauge, alternator?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lithium battery. can play the system at full tilt for 30 mins and voltage goes from 13.2 to 13. its insane


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

Above 13 volts floating voltage...even on music, dayum, did the owner replace the main battery with a lithium or have a secondary batt as the lithium?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ImLoudEK said:


> Above 13 volts floating voltage...even on music, dayum, did the owner replace the main battery with a lithium or have a secondary batt as the lithium?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


secondary as lithium


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

sub'd for progress


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## Ziggyrama (Jan 17, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> secondary as lithium


That's brave, in a car. I haven't researched Li batteries in a car but given their dependency on electronic regulation, I'd be concerned with a failure and a sure fire that would follow. Thought?

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ziggyrama said:


> That's brave, in a car. I haven't researched Li batteries in a car but given their dependency on electronic regulation, I'd be concerned with a failure and a sure fire that would follow. Thought?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


They're very popular in the spl world. Haven't really heard of many issues

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## Ziggyrama (Jan 17, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> They're very popular in the spl world. Haven't really heard of many issues
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Why go with Li over AGM? Less voltage sag as it goes down? Are people concerned with sizing? What drives this?

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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

I’m interested because of power density, size and weight advantages, but I’m just not sure about how stable this would be in a daily driver


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

How stable? - Think Tesla... 7000+ li cells in a "daily driver" situation 


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

unix_usr said:


> How stable? - Think Tesla... 7000+ li cells in a "daily driver" situation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And it's a supercomputer with slightly less programming than a space x rocket to help it stable


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

Playing devils advocate here, but the battery in a Tesla and the lifep04 lithium iron phosphate for car audio, aren’t they different?

I know the actual electric vehicles like Tesla’s and Bmw i3 have a 12v system and battery that is powered by the lithium


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ziggyrama said:


> Why go with Li over AGM? Less voltage sag as it goes down? Are people concerned with sizing? What drives this?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Much higher capacity, Smaller, lighter, etc

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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

ImLoudEK said:


> I’m interested because of power density, size and weight advantages, but I’m just not sure about how stable this woul
> d be in a daily driver
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

SkizeR said:


> Much higher capacity, Smaller, lighter, etc
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk



I think the primary advantage is the weight, Maybe also discharge rate, but not the capacity. You can still get AGM with far more capacity.

For example, XS Power's largest Lithium battery (12v) is their XS36KSPL. It's dimensions are 13"L x 6.8"W x 8.65"H and it provides *44 amp hours*, max power 36,000 watts. Weight is 30lbs.

The XS Power D3100 measures nearly identical in dimensions but provides *110ah

*The lithiums may also have a better lifespan for discharge/recharge and makes sense why they would be popular for SPL. I believe the standard for agm is 50% discharge is safe, whereas 80% discharge is safe for lithium- again, a good thing for SPL vehicles.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

captainobvious said:


> I think the primary advantage is the weight, Maybe also discharge rate, but not the capacity. You can still get AGM with far more capacity.
> 
> For example, XS Power's largest Lithium battery (12v) is their XS36KSPL. It's dimensions are 13"L x 6.8"W x 8.65"H and it provides *44 amp hours*, max power 36,000 watts. Weight is 30lbs.
> 
> ...


this is what i never understood. so the car featured in this build log has what JY Power rates at 45AH. it consists of four 3.7 volt cells that are wired in series. together, its pretty small on the "car battery physical size scale". yet, this car can demo at full tilt (that includes the 3500 watt sub amp playing rebassed music) for over 30 minutes and only drop .2 volts. Do that with a 45ah AGM battery and it will fall on its face. Actually, i have done it with 2 xs power batteries totalling something like 90ah on just my front stage in my old car. maybe 1000 watts of zapco dc amps. would last about 15 mins before it hit 11 volts. i dont claim to know the science behind batteries and how they come up with AH ratings, but i can assure you from my own semi-limited experience with the lithiums, that the lithium batteries smack the agm's around at even half the physical size.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ok, so i asked my electrical engineer/car audio hobbyist friend. his answer..




> because their discharge curve is a brick wall, compared to AGM which is a linear discharge curve
> so a AGM curve would look like 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 ... but even though it still has juice at 11v, the amps cant perform at such low voltage
> a lithium curve looks like 14, 13.5, 13.2, 13.0, 12.9, 10 , 8, 4, zero


so, while they have the same capacity, in car audio a lithium is usable for much longer this is what i assumed but wasnt sure (assumed so because lithium cordless tools will hammer out like theyre full until the last 30 seconds of their charge)


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

so if this lithium is the secondary batt, it must be topping of the main lead acid batt its wired w/ keeping the overall voltage of the vehicle up even w/ engine off, have you had a chance to see how the vehicle electrical and sound system reacts in this cold weather recently?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ImLoudEK said:


> so if this lithium is the secondary batt, it must be topping of the main lead acid batt its wired w/ keeping the overall voltage of the vehicle up even w/ engine off, have you had a chance to see how the vehicle electrical and sound system reacts in this cold weather recently?


i havent, he lives over an hour away. but he hasnt mentioned anything. i'll ask him


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Man, you may not want to but holy cow your going to have to make some videos or a step by step on pillars. You do an outstanding job.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Iamsecond said:


> Man, you may not want to but holy cow your going to have to make some videos or a step by step on pillars. You do an outstanding job.


thanks. im starting some tomorrow. maybe i'll make a time lapse video


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

And give a list of your preferred resin, activator etc products if possible. After all the products don’t make the end result the artist does. Anyone can get a hammer and a chisel but not everyone can carve a master piece. Again, Those pillars are sweet. 
This is one area we don’t get much call for but I want to be ready when it comes.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Iamsecond said:


> And give a list of your preferred resin, activator etc products if possible. After all the products don’t make the end result the artist does. Anyone can get a hammer and a chisel but not everyone can carve a master piece. Again, Those pillars are sweet.
> This is one area we don’t get much call for but I want to be ready when it comes.


Us composites everything. Their standard marine resin or sometimes vinyl ester resin. Standard glass mat or biaxial for larger stuff

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## Ziggyrama (Jan 17, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> this is what i never understood. so the car featured in this build log has what JY Power rates at 45AH. it consists of four 3.7 volt cells that are wired in series. together, its pretty small on the "car battery physical size scale". yet, this car can demo at full tilt (that includes the 3500 watt sub amp playing rebassed music) for over 30 minutes and only drop .2 volts. Do that with a 45ah AGM battery and it will fall on its face. Actually, i have done it with 2 xs power batteries totalling something like 90ah on just my front stage in my old car. maybe 1000 watts of zapco dc amps. would last about 15 mins before it hit 11 volts. i dont claim to know the science behind batteries and how they come up with AH ratings, but i can assure you from my own semi-limited experience with the lithiums, that the lithium batteries smack the agm's around at even half the physical size.


Yes, one of the major advantages of Li Fe battery is that they don't get as much of a voltage sag as they go down. Pb or AGM batteries drop the voltage faster as they discharge which is consistent with what you described. So, the amp hour rating can be misleading since the acceptable voltage levels are shorter than that. 

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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

SkizeR said:


> Us composites everything. Their standard marine resin or sometimes vinyl ester resin. Standard glass mat or biaxial for larger stuff
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk



I've always ordered/used their Vinyl Ester stuff. I know the standard marine resin is a good bit less expensive. Have you noticed any significant differences? (Cure time/temp, strength, odor, shelf life, etc.)


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

captainobvious said:


> I've always ordered/used their Vinyl Ester stuff. I know the standard marine resin is a good bit less expensive. Have you noticed any significant differences? (Cure time/temp, strength, odor, shelf life, etc.)


Haven't noticed anything different at all to be honest besides color

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## krushy^ (Dec 29, 2017)

Gotta say, nice install with the A pillers!

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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Very nice work! 


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Keeping an eye on this one. I love those tweeters. I'm running a set in my rig. Cannot say enough good things about them. Great Piller job, as usual, Nick!


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