# 6.5" or 8" subwoofer for under seat



## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Im looking a subwoofer to go under the seats of a new 2015 Silverado, as you may know there is very little room under the seats. Looking for a good small woofer that can play ported or a larger woofer that excels in small sealed boxes. I think that a 10" is the absolute largest woofer.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SW6.5 | DD Audio


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...cl45-4-8-polypropylene-cone-sub-woofer-4-ohm/


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Does anyone think that sealed is a terrible way to go.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

No.

10chars


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I think you could overcome the lost output from not porting, by being able to fit twice as many sealed subs.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

I was using my alpine type R 8s in floor mounted 0.3ft³ sealed boxes as my main subs and they worked quite nicely. Since added a sealed 12 tho so they are back to midbass duty

If you have power & xmax to spare and a DSP with biquad eq then a linkwitz transform can help fill out what ever low end you might be missing vs ported, if cabin gain hasn't done it already


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Any other opinions? I was thinking possibly a Jl 10 sealed, they have a few small box shallow ish subs


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

nineball76 said:


> I think you could overcome the lost output from not porting, by being able to fit twice as many sealed subs.


Exactly. In the wife's car I just went from one 12" in 2ft³ tuned to about 33hz to two sealed 12s in the same size box, guess which is which from the RTA:










The new box is so much better in every way. Not looking to start a sealed vs ported flame war (which I assume has been done to death already) but just saying, go with what works. They're both good.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Anyone ever used the tang band neo 6.5's. I am looking at running a pair sealed on 400 watts.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Still looking for help


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Timhof13 said:


> Does anyone think that sealed is a terrible way to go.


When space is at a minimum it can be the only way to go, i started with a pair of 12's in a sealed enclosure on 500 Wrms and now i found happiness with a single 12" on 350 Wrms..


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Would one of these fit? These are pretty good 

Alpine


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Alpine Type R 8, Sundown SD2-8, JL Audio CP108 (I've owned - see video) or CP106, Tang Band 6.5", Peerless sls 6.5" (i have) 






Dayton low profile subs - from parts express
Dayton Audio LS10-44 10" Low Profile Subwoofer Dual 4 Ohm
Dayton Audio LS12-44 12" Low Profile Subwoofer Dual 4 Ohm
Dayton Audio LW150-4 6" Low Profile Woofer 4 Ohms

Anarchy Woofer - Anarchy Woofer DIY Sound Group








Timhof13 said:


> Does anyone think that sealed is a terrible way to go.


I've yet to meet anyone who without looking in the trunk can tell what type of enclosure or size of sub is in the back. Is sealed a bad way to go? Absolutely not!


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Suggestion for the best sealed woofers for this application, I don't wanna but 20 woofers to find the right one. 

The Alpine and Jl boxes wont fit I already tried.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

How much space do you have between the seat and the floor?

Sealed would be better, smaller box and way easier to tune.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Does it have to be in a premade box? Unless you can find something specific to your vehicle, that's going to seriously limit your options. Why not make something to suit? This is DIYma after all. It won't have to be pretty if it's under the seats.

You've got lots of good options so far, and I can vouch for the alpine 8s working very well in small boxes. Sealed 0.3ft³ gross or ported 0.55ft³ net.

If you have enough depth either the alpine type R or type S will work well in half a foot sealed, and S isn't far behind the R. In fact the type S has a good 3dB more sensitivity, which could work out well depending how much power you have available.

Absolutely need detailed measurements of the space under the seats. Are you willing to cut out a square of carpet? That can often get you quite a bit more height, especially of there's a thick chunk of foam under the carpet. Plus if you cut it cleanly enough you can always glue it back in and it won't stand out especially of there are floor mats in the back.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> Does it have to be in a premade box? Unless you can find something specific to your vehicle, that's going to seriously limit your options. Why not make something to suit? This is DIYma after all. It won't have to be pretty if it's under the seats.
> 
> You've got lots of good options so far, and I can vouch for the alpine 8s working very well in small boxes. Sealed 0.3ft³ gross or ported 0.55ft³ net.
> 
> ...


I think I can get a type r or s 8" on either side or both, I should be able to get .5 on each side of the hump. Would you suggest down fire or up into the bottom of the seat. I really don't want from facing and that's the smallest measurement anyway. I will be building custom. Amp will be a focal solid 1 or bridged channels form a Jl audio xd600/6


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Sorry I was talking about the 10" alpine R or S in half a foot sealed, there is no type S 8". I just did a 2x12 down firing sealed box for a pair of alpine type S 12s, so I'm a big fan of alpine and down firing  you'll need about a 1/4 diameter in clearance to the floor tho, can you fit that? The woofer doesn't have to be firing straight at the floor, the baffle can slope which ever way suits the space. 

For example going by a 1/4 diameter height guideline, my 12s needed 3" of clearance to the floor, but mine are angled towards the tailgate slightly so I have just under 2" clearance at the front of the box and just under 4" clearance at the tailgate end. I took inspiration from the inverted wedge box by decware. See pic


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Timhof13 said:


> Suggestion for the best sealed woofers for this application, I don't wanna but 20 woofers to find the right one.
> 
> The Alpine and Jl boxes wont fit I already tried.


Just throwing some ideas out there. it would be handy to have some dimensions to work with.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Timhof13-

6.5" or 8" drivers are generally much better as a midbass source unless they're in enclosures which were specially built on a drunken whim (or by your latest OEM provider) to see just how much we can get out of them in the bottom octave before they quit...

In small numbers, they are not, nor will they ever be, a good source for low bass in any appreciable quantity...


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

XSIV SPL said:


> Timhof13-
> 
> 6.5" or 8" drivers are generally much better as a midbass source unless they're in enclosures which were specially built on a drunken whim (or by your latest OEM provider) to see just how much we can get out of them in the bottom octave before they quit...
> 
> In small numbers, they are not, nor will they ever be, a good source for low bass in any appreciable quantity...


If it's all you can fit, then they put out awesome low bass


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

ninetysix said:


> If it's all you can fit, then they put out awesome low bass


I'll admit- I once played around wit a pair of 8" woofers in a ported box, and they sounded OK, but they suffered at low frequencies. I've determined that 8" woofers will get you solidly down to around 50 hz, but after that, you really do need bigger woofers and bigger boxes if you want to produce lower bass frequencies with any sort of authority...

As far as the definition of "subwoofer" goes, 6.5 and 8" candidates will not suffice... At least none that I've witnessed...


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

XSIV SPL said:


> I'll admit- I once played around wit a pair of 8" woofers in a ported box, and they sounded OK, but they suffered at low frequencies. I've determined that 8" woofers will get you solidly down to around 50 hz, but after that, you really do need bigger woofers and bigger boxes if you want to produce lower bass frequencies with any sort of authority...
> 
> As far as the definition of "subwoofer" goes, 6.5 and 8" candidates will not suffice... At least none that I've witnessed...


The 3x6.5" woofers in my paradigm monitor 11s in the lounge room have an F3 of about 43hz, most music is awesome even with the sub off, but that's hardly apples for apples...

There's some happy campers in the alpine type R 8" thread, off the top of my head they were running 3 of them with about 2ft³ tuned in the mid-low 30s. More cone area than a 12" and 14mm xmax. Still, I agree... If only for the fact that I can buy a type S 12 for about the same price as a type R 8. Heck, the 12 was only a buck more than the 10! But you can only fit what you can only fit.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

The truck is in the shop right now so dimensions are not available, the boxes will not be flat at all I may fiberglass the floor of them as the floor of the truck is bumpier than a country road. It's the double cab which has many contours, I think I may try a single type r 8 and see how I like it, I can do a 10 sealed also of the box is .50 or less. I guess at this point is the alpine the best option in a small sealed box. Btw I was not a fan of the sundown sd3, but I feel that was partially my fault.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Timhof13 said:


> The truck is in the shop right now so dimensions are not available, the boxes will not be flat at all I may fiberglass the floor of them as the floor of the truck is bumpier than a country road. It's the double cab which has many contours, I think I may try a single type r 8 and see how I like it, I can do a 10 sealed also of the box is .50 or less. I guess at this point is the alpine the best option in a small sealed box. Btw I was not a fan of the sundown sd3, but I feel that was partially my fault.


It would have to be a ported 8 if you're gonna run just one. One sealed R8 won't really cut it.

I would go with the 10 if it will fit for sure. The depth on the 8 and 10 are pretty close as it is. Plus, both a ported 8 and a sealed 10 need about half a foot net, but the 8 box will always be bigger due to port displacement. Unless you can run an external port? Might not help a lot tho.

Alpines biggest advantage is working well in small boxes. The 8 is good for midbass duty in 0.1-0.2ft³, when I was shopping for 8s I couldn't find anything that would work as well in such a small box. There were cheaper, more efficient subs but they all needed bigger boxes. 0.5ft³ is pretty small for a sealed 10, look up some specs, find something as good or better if space is your #1 issue.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

XSIV SPL said:


> Timhof13-
> 
> 6.5" or 8" drivers are generally much better as a midbass source unless they're in enclosures which were specially built on a drunken whim (or by your latest OEM provider) to see just how much we can get out of them in the bottom octave before they quit...
> 
> In small numbers, they are not, nor will they ever be, a good source for low bass in any appreciable quantity...


:surprised:

enjoy! 

Low, deep bass





























5.25 used in multiples






... I could go on.....


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

If you don't mind a 4ohm driver, a scan speak discovery 26W/4558T looks like it will work well in 0.5ft³, xmax and sensitivity look better than the alpine for about the same price.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Now I love small subs and playing around with how much output you can get from them. 

I had 4x Focal Utopia 13WS in a sealed box in my SQ comp car at first, later I had just one of them in a TL box and it had the same output as the four of them sealed. 

I've put two (older) Focal 5WS subs in my current car (ported box) and I've had a 4 of the TangBand W5-1138 in a ported box. They're all impressive for what they are, but realistically talking a decent budget 8 will outperform a pair of expensive 5" Focals in almost every way. 

And the $2000 setup of 4x 13WS can't be justified in any other way than proving some kind of point that small drivers *can* make bass. On level with a decent 10" or so. 

I chose them myself because I didn't actually have room for anything larger in the way I wanted my setup to be, I had plenty of width but not much length:

















This had the same output as the four of them sealed:









But in the same volume box with a different shape I could easily have a 10/12" sealed, that would outperform it in every way.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

haakono said:


> Now I love small subs and playing around with how much output you can get from them.
> 
> I had 4x Focal Utopia 13WS in a sealed box in my SQ comp car at first, later I had just one of them in a TL box and it had the same output as the four of them sealed.
> 
> ...



I don't know where this; *"Small subs can't hit low!"* ... myth comes from. It's like the; *'6's or 8's are tighter than 15's or 18's'* nonsense. Maybe that was the way it was back in 1978, but things have moved on.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

After this, I went from the single 5" in a TL box, to a Digital Designs 3518 in a sealed box, powered at first by a 190W Hertz amp for ****s and giggles, later by a Mosconi Zero 1 for power and control 

Both subs were tight, precise and low hitting.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

If you have the depth for the Type-R sub you should have enough to do the Sundown SD-3 10. The SD is 4.75" deep but does not require any clearance behind the magnet since it has a solid plate.

As for the smaller 6.5" woofers I have used both the TB W6-1139 and the Anarchy woofer from DIYsoundgroup. And I can promise you the TB is no where close to the Anarchy. I have a single Anarchy in a ported enclosure with a 200w plate amp in one of the rooms of my house and the thing will absolutely surprise you.

One other thing to ask, do you plan to compete with this vehicle? If so I would take a look at the MECA rule book. There are some very specific rules regarding sub placement.


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## ruizal (Aug 4, 2015)

Are these for the front or rear seats? I didn't see. I ask because my brother has a 2013 3 door and he is wanting me to add some bass to his truck. Specifically subs under the rear seats 

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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Have you looked at any shallow mount subs? You pay a bit more but JL and alpine have some nice ones.

0.35ft³ net for the alpine type R10 and 0.5 for the JL T3, both about 3.5" deep. A shallow sub would be perfect for a down firing box, which means you don't have to glass it to follow the bumpy floor


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Actually from what I've read, this shallow sub is one of the few that actually model well in a small box: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...b-acoustics-sw26dac76-8-shallow-10-subwoofer/

You would need two of them to wire in parallel as they are 8ohm, there is a 4 ohm version but it needs a much bigger box


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> Actually from what I've read, this shallow sub is one of the few that actually model well in a small box: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...b-acoustics-sw26dac76-8-shallow-10-subwoofer/
> 
> You would need two of them to wire in parallel as they are 8ohm, there is a 4 ohm version but it needs a much bigger box


That looks great but I'm not spending $500 on subs for a leased truck that will never compete. I really want some low end and will spend some cash,just not that much. If I was keeping the truck my budget would increase by a ton. 

Has anyone had success with Jl audio w1v3 and thinking that or a type s right now. 10" by the way


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

XSIV SPL said:


> I'll admit- I once played around wit a pair of 8" woofers in a ported box, and they sounded OK, but they suffered at low frequencies. I've determined that 8" woofers will get you solidly down to around 50 hz, but after that, you really do need bigger woofers and bigger boxes if you want to produce lower bass frequencies with any sort of authority...
> 
> As far as the definition of "subwoofer" goes, 6.5 and 8" candidates will not suffice... At least none that I've witnessed...


User error. Mine bounces the windshield from a closed trunk under 30hz


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I also lol at people who say small subs can't hit low. I have an ID8 in a PROPERLY designed and built 4th order that with cabin gain is strong down into the 20's. Sounds pretty clean too. Too bad it won't play high enough to properly integrate with my midbass. Still fun to throw in from time to time to scratch my occasional basshead itch.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

DDfusion said:


> User error. Mine bounces the windshield from a closed trunk under 30hz


Forgive me, I can't recall your setup. Can you refresh my memory?

Besides, below 30hz isn't SPL, it's just finding a frequency that resonates the cabin and moves a bunch of air, but doesn't necessarily deliver anything much other than that. If I play a 25 hz wave, I can have my window frames off the seals at about 20% volume... It doesn't register much for SPL though... not very impressive...

If your water bottle is trying to jump out of the cup holder at 40hz, that's a different story...


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

I think right now a Jl audio w1v3 or a alpine type s are my top choices, if anyone has one for sale I'd be interested. If not off to eBay


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## Inferno333 (Mar 29, 2006)

I'd really take a harder look at the Sundown SD series. I've heard pretty good things.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Inferno333 said:


> I'd really take a harder look at the Sundown SD series. I've heard pretty good things.


I hated the sd3 10 that I had, maybe I could try again but I was not impressed at all. It also appeared to be entremely inefficient.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

If you can squeeze a little more power in, the type R would be nicer than the S in the same box. Class D mono amps are cheap


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> If you can squeeze a little more power in, the type R would be nicer than the S in the same box. Class D mono amps are cheap


What kinda power for the s and the r respectively, I know that a Jl w1 will do very well on 300-400 watts. I also realize that I will have less output than a type r. I'm just wondering how much the r will suffer in a sealed box. I also really don't think I can accommodate the depth of a type r


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

The JL Audio 8w3 and 6w3 I have sold many of and they are always impressive. Stay with thr ported 32ish tuned box and you will be happy. I also had 8w1 pulling midbass duty in my car in the kick panels. They would play to 40hz no problem in tiny sealed enclosures. No doubt they would extend lower in larger ported.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

The R is 8mm deeper than the S, plus both have a rear vent so will need some clearance to keep cool. Surely a box that would just fit the S would take the R too, even if you had to use a 8mm thick spacer ring between the sub and the box?

I think you would want at least about the rated RMS power of which ever driver you go with. Sealed boxes aren't as efficient as ported so you need good power to get the most out of them. Having power to spare will also help with boosting the low frequencies where a small sealed box wants to start rolling off. Think bass boost knob on the amp or a much better option being a DSP with parametric EQ that can apply a linkwitz transform which can make the sub behave like it's in a bigger box, but will push the amp harder.

On paper, the JL W1 has higher sensitivity than the R but lower than the S. 11mm xmax vs 15mm for the S and 20mm for the R. The JL is rated to 300 watts where the S and the R are rated 500 and 1000w respectively. Going by the manufacturer specs, the JL W1 isn't really in the same league as the alpine S or R, where the JL W3 is more comparable. It might not work out that way in reality tho, YMMV.

I don't think the R will "suffer" in a small sealed box, it will just need lots of power like any other sub in the same setup. But it can handle a lot of power, and has good excursion. If a more powerful amp that would cost no more than a type R sub isn't an option, then the W1 or S would probably be the way to go.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

I am currently using a audiocontrol eqs in the system do I can eq the woofer to help meet some needs. I have around 500 watts available at two ohms. I can get more power if necessary. I was also thinking about a ssa dcon as a option. I've never used one, or an alpine for that matter. I am very familiar with Jl audio and sundown sd3


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Food for thought... Here's a graph of some measurements I took from my SWR843D type R 8s (the 2011 spec subs now replaced by SWR8D2/4) installed in 0.3cuft sealed boxes on the floor infront of the front seats. Boxes made with 0.625" MDF on the top and sides, the bottom is the floor pan of the car as I cut out carpet and screwed the box down with brackets and sealed it up with caulk. Lightly stuffed with fibreglass (not the itchy kind). Barely a 1/4" clearance from back of the sub to the floor as its vented further up the basket and doesn't need clearance around the magnet. The 2 subs are powered by a pair of cheap soundstream picasso nano 450wrms class D amps (sub rated to 350w I think).

Blue line is a nearfield measurement with the mic about and inch away from the woofer cone running a sweep, green is the passenger side sub measured from the drivers seat using pink noise and RTA. you can see cabin gain helps the bottom end out quite a bit, and the peaks can be EQ'd out quite easily with a DSP for a fairly flat response.

It got plenty loud in my opel astra (roughly corolla sized) and you could feel the bass shaking through the back of the seat as if the subs were in the trunk. Much happier with a sealed type R 12" in the trunk too now tho


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

You can tell I got nothing better to do...

I loaded the W1, S and R (all 10") into winISD pro to model them... and it looks like the JL W1 does ok with 300W, but you're basically at xmax, where the S with 500w does a little better across the range, but has room for either more power or boosting the low frequencies. With 500w the type R 10" is pretty similar to the S, but with 1000w it's a lot stronger, and still has some xmax to spare


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## Inferno333 (Mar 29, 2006)

Timhof13 said:


> I hated the sd3 10 that I had, maybe I could try again but I was not impressed at all. It also appeared to be entremely inefficient.


I thought the SD3 was supposed to be better. Dang. Maybe you could try out the 8" or try the 6.5". They are a bit inefficient though.


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## undone1 (Sep 30, 2008)

tnaudio said:


> The JL Audio 8w3 and 6w3 I have sold many of and they are always impressive. Stay with thr ported 32ish tuned box and you will be happy. I also had 8w1 pulling midbass duty in my car in the kick panels. They would play to 40hz no problem in tiny sealed enclosures. No doubt they would extend lower in larger ported.


8W1 F3=69hz F10=43hz in typical .2 cu ft kicks... you must of have had massive cabin gain for it to do anything at all in the 40hz range...


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

They were bigger than .2 cu ft. 

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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)




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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

Oh cool double picture post. Ive never done that before

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## undone1 (Sep 30, 2008)

tnaudio said:


> They were bigger than .2 cu ft.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


even at .6 cu ft...still -8db down at 40..


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

The I apparently had "massive cabin gain". 

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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

I saw that the shallow type s 10 is not a bad price, anyone want to model that sub in .5 at around 500 watts


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Timhof13 said:


> I saw that the shallow type s 10 is not a bad price, anyone want to model that sub in .5 at around 500 watts


That must be old stock, alpine don't make a shallow type-s any more only the type-R... and from what I've read the latest type S subs have been a big improvement, not far off the type R.

The shallow type R actually models pretty good, but being 4ohm you'll need a ~1000w amp to give it 600w @ 4 ohm, although the sub retails at $600  but I've seen it for a lot less than that.

The regular type R with 1000w still kills the rest, and the type S actually seems happier in a vented box. However with some DSP they all come good, although the S is a little peaky up high but you would cross it over before then anyhow.

check the following graphs from winisd pro, all in half a foot sealed with maximum rated power. first graph is as they are with no processing, second graph is with a linkwitz transform filter to get them up to maximum xmax by 30Hz, and with a subsonic filter to prevent overexcursion below 30hz. Red line is type R, blue is type S and yellow is the shallow type R, all 10".


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Any other suggestions on a subwoofer, before I buy a Alpine type R or S


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## BassMechanic308 (Feb 15, 2015)

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the massive summo 6.5 or 8 is pretty good. The 6.5 is nice. Sundown audio also has a x6.5 sub to which is beefy.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

BassMechanic308 said:


> Not sure if it's been mentioned but the massive summo 6.5 or 8 is pretty good. The 6.5 is nice. Sundown audio also has a x6.5 sub to which is beefy.


Been thinking about the sumo's, I really want to stay away from ported as the box will be very odd shaped. I'm not sure an aero will be able to fit


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Is this the kinda box you have in mind?


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## undone1 (Sep 30, 2008)

unless I overlooked it...Infinity Ref860w..digs down low in sealed..just a little more than the Alpine...


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

undone1 said:


> unless I overlooked it...Infinity Ref860w..digs down low in sealed..just a little more than the Alpine...


If you can still get your hands on one, they look ok, quite a few years old now. I believe the OP is shopping for a 10" sub not an 8", but modeling the infinity 8" against the alpine SWR843D (which is the 2011 edition) in the same size boxes (0.35ft³ net) with rated power (250w on the infinity and 350w on the alpine)... 

The infinity is never putting out higher SPL than the alpine, the advantage is basically nothing around 20-30Hz, but steadily increases from there, up 4dB at 100Hz - which might only make integrating with the mains harder!

In a ported box (about 0.5ft³ net tuned to 32Hz) both drivers are up about 5dB at 30Hz over the sealed boxes, and the alpine pulls away from the infinity from around 40Hz, up 3dB by 80Hz.


So I guess the point is, there are so many subs that will work well in any car... However the infinity has a mounting depth similar to a 10" alpine, so it really falls down if you're short on space.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> Is this the kinda box you have in mind?


Yes, I will be building myself. The floor of the 2015 has way more contours than that. I've yet to see a prefab that is decent for the 2015, it's not the same as the 14


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

On another forum a member modeled a type s and said not so good things about sealed small box


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

That's pretty much exactly what the graphs I posted earlier say too. Winisd suggested it would be better off in a ported box, although if you have a DSP you can get it to perform basically the same as the shallow type R, but the regular type R is better across the board if you can give it rated power.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> That's pretty much exactly what the graphs I posted earlier say too. Winisd suggested it would be better off in a ported box, although if you have a DSP you can get it to perform basically the same as the shallow type R, but the regular type R is better across the board if you can give it rated power.


I'm concerned about trying to get 1000 watts to a type r, what would the size need to be for a type s sealed to model well. Also if I did a single 8 type r what type of power.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Can you do 500w @ 1ohm? The D2 type S models just a tiny bit nicer than the D4, not quite as peaky and almost a dB louder around 40Hz for the same power and box. If you double the box size to 1ft³ the curve still looks the same but you're up almost 3dB around 30-40Hz. If you go in between the sizes to 0.75ft³ your gaining about 1.5dB. If a box that size isn't an option then the smaller box with some DSP work will give you essentially the same result.

The current 8s (SWR-8D2/4) don't seem to model as well as the older ones, only 12mm xmax compared to 14... Unless their original figures weren't as good as they thought. 

A single 8R even in a fairly large box.... The modeling says, forget it. However 2 of them in 0.75ft³ (or two separate 0.375ft³ boxes) look not too shabby with 500w, assuming you get 8D2 with coils in parallel and subs in series for 2ohm at the amp. The tiniest bit stronger than a single 10S even in a 0.75ft³ box, and much less peaky up high.

However the 8s are already at xmax, where the 10S isn't and will gain from a bump.


I realise I'm all over the place here and probably making things harder for you, but what the modeling also tells me is that the 10S in 0.5ft³ can perform exactly the same as the 10S in 1.0ft³ with the same power. You just need to use a DSP to get more excursion down low. The smaller box actually models better, identical 20-70Hz output but doesn't peak quite as hard around 70-90Hz, which even if you cross to the mains below there will still make for a bit of a hump, but DSP can fix that too.

The JL10w3-2 looks like it well perform almost exactly the same in 0.5L with some DSP work too. It's about 3mm deeper but it doesn't have a vent on the magnet so won't need any clearance there.

Bottom line is, any sub that will fit that is built well, can handle the power you have, has decent xmax and the manufacturer can recommend a smallish sealed box will work. But you're gonna need to use the DSP to make it perform.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Ok I really can do 500-600 watts at 2 or 4 ohms, I'm running a audiocontrol eqs can I ise that for a bump in the 30-40hz range? Sometimes I feel like a Jl is the way to go, I know they perform in smaller sealed box and will sound good. I realize I may loose some spl. I've also considered the older kenwood excelon 10" shallow woofer, they are like 90 bucks on Amazon.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Can you fit a non shallow sub? If so, forget about shallow subs, especially that Kenwood unless you are running 2 of them, and even then... 7.5mm xmax isn't much


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Also that eq might help, but if the sub turns out to be weak down low because you're not getting much cabin gain for some reason, a real DSP would be much better at getting it right up to it's limit


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> Can you fit a non shallow sub? If so, forget about shallow subs, especially that Kenwood unless you are running 2 of them, and even then... 7.5mm xmax isn't much


I should be able to get 5-6 depth on a 10" woofer.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

So what's the problem? Go buy a W3, sounds like you like JL  it will fit and work awesome


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> So what's the problem? Go buy a W3, sounds like you like JL  it will fit and work awesome


Well there is no problem, just wanna find a woofer that will fit and sound good in a small sealed box. Obviously shallow will be easier


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Timhof13 said:


> Well there is no problem, just wanna find a woofer that will fit and sound good in a small sealed box. Obviously shallow will be easier


What's your width like? A shallow 12 would be nicer.

But good shallow subs typically cost 50-100% more, it takes a lot of R&D to get the same performance from a tiny package.


Agonising over your purchase can make for a buzzkill once you get her up and running. Any of these subs will work one way or another


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

A 12 will be really tight, trying not to build a box and have it suck. If it was an easy build so be it. This will take some time to build I really don't have time in my life to build 3-4 times. I work 60-70 hours a week right now and have a family


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Looked at the JL 10TW3-4? A little under $300 and models very well in half a cube sealed with 500w at 2 ohm. 3.25" mounting depth


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> Looked at the JL 10TW3-4? A little under $300 and models very well in half a cube sealed with 500w at 2 ohm. 3.25" mounting depth


I will look at those as an option, is there any way you can model the tang band 6.5" subwoofer(neo version). I think I can get a pair for a good price, do they model well in sealed or ported?


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

If you are looking at a 6.5" I would look at the Anarchy. It has twice the excursion and is currently only $66.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

From what I can gather the tang band has 11.5mm xmax compared to the anarchy at just under 10mm.

Either way, 2 of them is not going to equal a 10". 3 or even 4 would be nice though.

Winisd pro comes with several tang band drivers in it's database, have a go it's not hard to use.


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Does win isd pro work on Mac?


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

I am not recommending a 6.5", just replying to the OP's post.

Having owned several of the TB 1139-SI as well as the Anarchy I can attest there is no comparison between the two.

Keep in mind when selecting a woofer displacement is the value you need to be considered with. Not necessarily diameter alone.

For the record the Anarchy has a mechanical Xmax of 25mm which equates to a linear value of 12.5mm.

Historically TB values are overstated. Take them for what they are worth.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

dawaro said:


> I am not recommending a 6.5", just replying to the OP's post.
> 
> Having owned several of the TB 1139-SI as well as the Anarchy I can attest there is no comparison between the two.
> 
> ...


I was going by ErinH's figures for the anarchy, he has it at 9.2mm. Blind faith on the TB though :laugh:

I modelled the tang band, a pair in any enclosure or power was quite anemic. However 4 of them in about 0.75ft³ sealed with 500w ain't bad! But one JL 10TW3 has it beat in any size box, and it's mounting depth is about an inch shallower. The JL has xmax to spare too so can be boosted for even more bottom end, I didn't wanna push the tangs much past 10mm.


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

I know they are discontinued, and can be difficult to track down, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Sundown X6.5.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/sundown-audio/149659-sundown-6-5-subwoofer-project.html


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

Alright I started the box today, fiberglass is drying right now. I'm going with a 10 sealed I have about .8 ish to work with. I hoping that displacement wins here. Looking for suggestions, I'm thinking Jl audio, Polk mm, or alpine type s shallow. I have about 5.5 inches of depth.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

0.8ft³ will be a very nice size, most subs will work pretty well without any boosting. That's no longer a "small sealed box" though not large. But still not quite big enough to go ported, even if you could run an external vent.

Max $? Could you fit two 8s or even tens in that 0.8 box, side by side?

A pair of type R 8s model almost exactly the same as a single type S D2 (wired in series for 4ohm) in 3/4 cube. If you have 5.5" then you can fit a type S which is 5.56", forget the old shallow version. Apparently the vented pole alpine subs don't need any clearance to the magnet due to the slots around the vent allowing air to pass through, although if you stuff or line the box you would want to keep it from getting jammed between the box and the magnet.

You can't really do much better for a retail price of $129. I can't find much else that has similar xmax and less depth unless you're talking shallow subs, and they can retail for about 4 times that price, and give the same result.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

I modeled the Polk MM1040 and while it's nice, its just not cranking quite as hard as the alpines or JL. Looks like good value for a shallow sub though.

I like JL, had a pair of 12w3s in my car about 15 years ago and loved them. The 10W3v3 is the sub to compare to the type S, and it might be as good or better but it's a hair under 6" deep if you can fit that. The W1 isn't in the same class, but two of them in 0.8ft³ looks awesome!

Bigger and bader subs like W6s or type Rs are going to need more than 500w to really sing in a sealed box and are way too deep any way


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## Timhof13 (Dec 24, 2013)

ninetysix said:


> 0.8ft³ will be a very nice size, most subs will work pretty well without any boosting. That's no longer a "small sealed box" though not large. But still not quite big enough to go ported, even if you could run an external vent.
> 
> Max $? Could you fit two 8s or even tens in that 0.8 box, side by side?
> 
> ...



Thanks there is no way that I can fit a pair the main portion of the box is very shallow, like 3 inches deep with no clearance in front. The alpine website shows a current version of a type s shallow.

Alpine

Is that what you are referring to as the old model. I think I may go that, the polk or a tw1 or tw3 from jl audio.


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## ninetysix (Dec 6, 2009)

Timhof13 said:


> Thanks there is no way that I can fit a pair the main portion of the box is very shallow, like 3 inches deep with no clearance in front. The alpine website shows a current version of a type s shallow.
> 
> Alpine
> 
> Is that what you are referring to as the old model. I think I may go that, the polk or a tw1 or tw3 from jl audio.


Oh in with ya. That's the T, truck sub. Not bad, probably pretty similar to the Polk MM or the TW1. They all have about 11-12mm xmax.

There used to be a shallow type S, SWS-1043D. Maybe all the older type S subs were shallow, and they turned the old S into the T when they developed the current type S.

If you can spring for a TW3 that would be awesome, modeled very well. That or the alpine type R shallow, which ever you can get cheaper. They both have like $600 retail prices but I've seen both for a lot less.

Spend once, cry once right

Edit: my bad, it's only Australia where the tw3 can fetch 600 bucks


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