# 2008 BMW E93 335i Convertible



## mattyjman

Remember this: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...dvanced/95677-what-would-you-do-scenario.html ?

Well, after some careful consideration and discussions with my better half I have come up with a good system plan and am ready to start digging in. Initially the goal was to increase the SQ marginally and continue to have great staging by utilizing the stock speaker locations and a MS8 with upgraded speakers. As time went on in the last few weeks, I considered this more and more of a compromise to satisfy my wife (keep it all stock) and have a better quality experience with my audio. However, it was a compromise on my new found love of Horns and Pro Audio, and this was something that continually nagged me. 

After some discussions with a few key people on this board (you know who you are and thank you!), I knew that I couldn’t turn my back on HLCD’s now and go back to conventional drivers. I would be unsatisfied with the results, want to tear it all out and start all over again. I decided to move forward but to be mindful of opportunities to keep a stock looking appearance. This is normally difficult as the need for larger higher efficiency drivers requires larger drivers in general. I don’t think my wife would go for 10’s in the kickpanels, so this install and my wife’s restrictions have put some extreme challenges to overcome. 

The following is the start of a plan that I think will make both parties happy, and have some awesome tunes with the top down. 

System Goals:
-Stock Appearance
-Minimal to no cutting of interior
-Clarity at high volumes, decent SQ all around and great staging
-Maintain all useable space in the trunk

Source: Stock IDrive HU with Nav, Bluetooth, CD,IPOD, etc… 

Preamp: MoBridge DA1000 (converts BMW’s MOST signal into an optical digital output)

Processor: Alpine H700 Combo (comes with the RUX Controller)

Amps: 2 Vibe Audio Litebox 4 / 2 Vibe Audio Litebox 1

Highs: B&C DE500 Compression Drivers mated to ID Mini Bodies

Mids: ID XS65

Midbass: ID XS65 (3 per side)

Subs: 2 Stereo Integrity BM MKIII

As you can see, the above plan presents a tough challenge in and of itself. How do you fit so much in such a small car?

I did some digging around today in the car, and started tearing it apart to give me an idea of where everything is going to go. 



















It took me about 20 minutes to get to the battery, and all the panels you see in the trunk are necessary to remove in order to get to it










Likewise, another 20 minutes later on the other side and we see what we have for the stock amp location:










With the amp removed:









Looks like I’ll be able to get all my amps in here under the stock panels 










There is no spare tire in these cars… they make us put on runflats… that will be changing later down the line when I put on some rims… Under the main floor this is the limited space I have to work with


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## mattyjman

I’ll be using the skipass for the subs… sealing it off so there is no rattling in the trunk but everything will be firing straight through to the cabin. What I build here needs to be removable for our trips to the mountains for snowboarding

Stock skipass with the door:









After removal of the plastics:









And a shoddy mock up:


















I took the back door of the skipass off, this way it doesn’t get in the way when I build my box and secure it with the stock locations:


















Having the top down provides another level of difficulty in building the box:


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## mattyjman

Horn location up front being impeded by the main ECU:




























Possible location for the midrange: (right front kick panel, venting to the outside)









Location for the midbasses: 3 per door









The RUX controller will get a special home in the armrest:




















While I didn’t start “building” anything today, I feel like I got a lot accomplished. This prerequisite exploring will give me the ability to plan out this project effectively and in a timely manner. Stay posted for updates and a detailed build log!


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## Notloudenuf

SUB'D this looks interesting


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## MTopper

this will be an interesting build to see


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## bertholomey

Sub'd - very good start to another great BMW build.


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## Brian_smith06

holy sh!t. your going to have 3 pairs of xs65's for midbass duty? wow!!! I thought me running a pair per door would be insane.

subscribed to this!!!!!!!!!!!


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## toysoldier3646

definitely watching this one...or maybe i shouldn't. you've got me considering selling the legatias i got from you and moving to horns and 10's in my truck


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## jimmy2345

Quite a jump from your last thread. 

Whats makes you think you need three midbass per door that would deserve the work involved to properly make it happen?


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## mattyjman

jimmy2345 said:


> Quite a jump from your last thread.
> 
> Whats makes you think you need three midbass per door that would deserve the work involved to properly make it happen?


what makes you think i don't? 

why is it okay for someone to power there 6.5" midbass with 500 watts of power, but having three midbass drivers is not okay? it's called leaving room for dynamics. 

i'll tell you what will need the most work in this install, and it's the mid and sub-bass part of the install. why? because i can put the top down and that eliminates any part of cabin gain i may have with the top up. so why would you not want to have the equivalent of a 10" driver up front for dynamic midbass reproduction? answer me that....


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## Brian_smith06

Im a firm believer in headroom and overkill so I def approve of this thread!!!!!!!

I must ask though im confused a little by what I read. Will there be 4 sets total of the id mids or just the 3 pairs? Like 3 pairs for midbass duty then maybe a set more on axis for midrange? If so I think I know one person you discussed your build with because he recommended me something similar, however, he is against more than 1 pair of midbass


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## fish

I'm glad you decided to stay on the dark side, as I will join soon. 

I'm pretty anxious to see what you're going to do with the subs & midbass on this one.


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## mattyjman

Brian_smith06 said:


> Im a firm believer in headroom and overkill so I def approve of this thread!!!!!!!
> 
> I must ask though im confused a little by what I read. Will there be 4 sets total of the id mids or just the 3 pairs? Like 3 pairs for midbass duty then maybe a set more on axis for midrange? If so I think I know one person you discussed your build with because he recommended me something similar, however, he is against more than 1 pair of midbass


I admit that three midbass is a little overkill, but it's not like i have to use all the power. I'm glad you approve, and yes, you and I were probably both talking to Mic. I will have a set of dedicated midranges in the kicks, so 4 ID xs65's per side in the car 



fish said:


> I'm glad you decided to stay on the dark side, as I will join soon.
> 
> I'm pretty anxious to see what you're going to do with the subs & midbass on this one.


I think I realized that the Dark Side is where it's at, so I'm excited about this as well. I have somewhat negative expectations with it being a drop top and all, but I think I have set things in motion that will surprise me in the end with stunning results.


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## Brian_smith06

Damn that is awesome. I wish I could do something like that with mine. However the id 700.2 I'll have on each set of midbass should more than compensate :surprised:


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## mattyjman

man, work has been busy busy lately so no time to dig in until today. 

today, this was a day of destruction for the bimmer. i can now say with complete consideration that I hate working on bimmers. everything is well engineered, but the process is so much different than the "regular" cars I've worked on. more screws and less clips, and in some area, more clips and more screws... anyway, on to the progress. 

so, for my midranges I have given some consideration to cutting the metal and venting into exterior. I have decided against doing so as structural integrity and resale value would be in question. so, I will be doing semi axis kick panels, and here's an idea of what I'm working with



















So let the destruction begin...










I'll be getting to the center console soon, addressing some rattles and routing the controller wiring for the h701, but today I wanted to get a start on the horns and the doors.

Got the doors off and put them in the room so I could address them when it got dark...



















started on the driver side horn, which i was under the impression that it was quite easy. on the contrary, after cutting the underdash i had a tough time finding decent mounting locations that would fully support the horn



















i'm going to need to find a new place for whatever this is... I think it's an antenna of some sort but find it odd that they have it down in the drivers footwell



















this is how far back i can go before i hit the brake pedal lever


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## mattyjman

and a quick shot of mounting options










at about this time it started to get dark and i turned my attention to the door panels... first task is getting the foldout pocket out of the door... OMG.. this was a huge pain in the ass










top of the door pocket comes off and reveals a plastic bin










this bin is secured in the back with two "stops" and the hinges below










after about 45 minutes of tooling around with a screw driver it dawned on me that I should just drill out the pins... worked a charm










with the bin out and just the door card now










I was able to line up the door pod and mark the mounting locations... i need to do some cutting tomorrow to allow the baskets full depth, and there is a bit of door that needs to go to, but this gives you an idea of what I'm working with here. I was a little unsure of this solution, but the fit and finish of these panels are actually quite good










that's it for now, more to come tomorrow


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## fish

Definately looks like you got a lot of serious work ahead of you.


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## douggiestyle

I'm glad you stuck w/ horns. If I had a vert, that's the only option IMO. Doors look bad ass.

Chris: Still haven't powered up the SLS... just a long month


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## MTopper

those doors will look amazing when finished


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## BlueAc

Damn man... it's hard following your builds when you get a new car every month... lmao! I guess I'm tuned in again, this should be good! Good luck!!!


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## mattyjman

fish said:


> Definately looks like you got a lot of serious work ahead of you.


yeah, i think i have more work than i am anticipating too...  i'd like to have this all done in a weekend if i could... but i think it may be about a month and a half or more...



douggiestyle said:


> I'm glad you stuck w/ horns. If I had a vert, that's the only option IMO. Doors look bad ass.
> 
> Chris: Still haven't powered up the SLS... just a long month


yeah, i kinda want to hear the music with the top down, so that pretty much tipped me over the edge



MTopper said:


> those doors will look amazing when finished


i agree, these are Jehnert door panels and when i received them I was contemplating just building my own, due to a couple of factors, but now that i have them on here i'm quite pleased actually



BlueAc said:


> Damn man... it's hard following your builds when you get a new car every month... lmao! I guess I'm tuned in again, this should be good! Good luck!!!


well, this one will be the last one for a while... i would have kept the FJ but the way it drove just kept annoying me to the point where I just gave up... eff it, its time for a new car. this thing drives like a dream, and when i get the stereo in and some exterior mods I think i'll be happy with her for a while.


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## trojan fan

Hey guys, bodog.com just listed the over/ under at 6 months, on how long he will own this car...lol.... and the madness has started. If he is not satisfied, we will all be looking forward to the next project. How old is this guy?


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## Notloudenuf

mattyjman said:


>


Is that a readily available door pod? Who makes it? That is really cool.


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## mattyjman

Notloudenuf said:


> Is that a readily available door pod? Who makes it? That is really cool.


they are Jehnert door panels... european made i think, i ordered them from Don (6spdcoupe)


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## mattyjman

okay, so long day today with what i would consider small but significant progress. i'm not sure why my camera decided to take only blurry pictures today so i apologize in advance.

pictures are of both doors, which is what i finished here

first started by cutting the back out of the door so the speakers can vent into the door










sanded the edges smooth (cosmetics isn't really important but i wanted the deadener to adhere properly)










affixing the door panel to the door card, a multitude of bolts and nuts










on the drivers side, there was a screw that protruded through the door and potentially into the window control switch box, so i dremeled that off










i found that the inner diameter of the door panel pod was too small for the ID mids, so i sanded the insides down a smidgen to get the right clearance










and then added a strip of silicone to seal the midbasses 










after the silicone dried i turned my attention to deadening the door card. i don't anticipate a lot of rattles to begin with, but who knows... so i took care of the parts of the door that i thought to be problematic










then with the mids installed










and with the grill in place










while it doesn't seem like much, it took me quite a bit of time today to do both doors.


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## fish

I went to that site with the doorpods. Pretty cool. I didn't see the 3 woofer pod, did you special order that one? Also, why not go all out & get the 4 woofer/door pod?  Did you think that 4th woofer would be too far along the side of you, pulling the stage back?


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## MTopper

impressive. watching this one for sure


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## mattyjman

^ the fourth woofer doesn't actually go in the door panels but in the under seat enclosures... i ordered these "unloaded" so i could put my own drivers in


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## fish

mattyjman said:


> ^ the fourth woofer doesn't actually go in the door panels but in the under seat enclosures... i ordered these "unloaded" so i could put my own drivers in


Ahh, I see. I have no doubt anyone on here would order them "loaded". 

Good find. Are you willing to disclose the price tag?


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## mattyjman

there are various models and pricing depending on your vehicle .. and unless you are contemplating getting a e92/e93 bimmer.... 

besides I'd be doing Don a disservice by revealing pricing, but I can say that I have dealt with him on numerous occasions and he is always fair. 

the price on these made me contemplate building my own, as they are not cheap, but in the end I thought it might be easier just to use a product that had already been developed for this model...

and as you can see in the pictures, they blend great into the factory door


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## Notloudenuf

This is just plain beautiful so far.


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## mattyjman

and i should mention now that these doors weigh about 25 pounds now with all the extra deadener and the speakers... WOW


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## mattyjman

quick post today...

i was puzzled on how i'll be running the wires into the doors... on the driver side today this is what we see










even though i have the battery unplugged I was somewhat intimidated on plugging anything that looks like the ECU... (it's a bimmer right??!!) but alas, the only way I could see getting anything in the doors was through the underside of the ecu...there are two plastic nuts, one on top and one on the bottom that need to be removed, and then you unplug three harnesses and it comes off

this is what we see next










pull the foam plug out and ...










walllah... access to the molex plug

the rubber boot pulls out of the door...










but the boot is bolted to the chassis with a 8mm nut










and what do you know... i don't have a stinkin' wrench that will get into that crevice.. 

off to Home Depot (it never ceases to amaze me how many different tools i need for a given install... )


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## trojan fan

Matt, what is your opinion on the Vibe amps? Do you have any experience with the Arc mini's?...By the way nice car


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## mattyjman

trojan fan said:


> Matt, what is your opinion on the Vibe amps? Do you have any experience with the Arc mini's?...By the way nice car


they are the same amp


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## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> they are the same amp


OK, I think we all know that, but why the Vibe's, was it a impulse buy, or what?


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## subwoofery

Much much cheaper. 

Kelvin


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## trojan fan

subwoofery said:


> Much much cheaper.
> 
> Kelvin



I get that part, but why the Vibe(Arc)amps... Do you really think money is a problem for this guy?...Thanks for your opinion


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## mattyjman

trojan fan said:


> I get that part, but why the Vibe(Arc)amps... Do really think money is a problem for this guy?...Thanks for your opinion


i don't get your question... they are small, they are cheap, and they are the same exact amp as the arc mini's that many people have had success with... what's not to get about that? i think you are looking way behind the point...

an amp is an amp.. no point in paying more per watt unless you are a brand humper


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## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> i don't get your question... they are small, they are cheap, and they are the same exact amp as the arc mini's that many people have had success with... what's not to get about that? i think you are looking way behind the point...
> 
> an amp is an amp.. no point in paying more per watt unless you are a brand humper


The point was, looking at the same amps, and other than price , I was looking for some feed back, so, you like them for price and size, noted


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## mattyjman

trojan fan said:


> The point was, looking at the same amps, and other than price , I was looking for some feed back, so, you like them for price and size, noted


i think the better question is what's not to like about these... 

and the only thing that i can think of would be that the gain pots are on the bottom of the amp... but that's not going to hinder my install at all as i'm going to have an ability to "slide" the amp out to adjust the controls if needed. but the h701 should handle all the gain setting i need to do


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## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> i think the better question is what's not to like about these...
> 
> and the only thing that i can think of would be that the gain pots are on the bottom of the amp... but that's not going to hinder my install at all as i'm going to have an ability to "slide" the amp out to adjust the controls if needed. but the h701 should handle all the gain setting i need to do[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Sounds good, looking for some more feedback once you get them up and running.... thanks


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## ecbmxer

Psyched on the litebox amps! I'm gonna go with a 4ch and 1ch for my WRX install.


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## trojan fan

DAT said:


> I'm glad you like them. Talking to a Rep @ Sonic Electronix this is the most returned amp they carry. Seems 2 out of 10 buyers return them.
> 
> 
> Good Luck With Your Search.




Looks like I may reconsider the Litebox amps


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## mattyjman

^ well that sucks... but no reason to try them first and see what happens


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## mattyjman

so, time for updates... 
1st.. i hate this car... I have completed running the wires throughout the car, which sounds so minor but it's taken me a while to learn how to work on these cars...

i finished the drivers side and passenger side door wiring, running Around the molex... here are some pics



















There is this little tab that needs to be cut off, be careful not to leave any sharp edges




























the rest is pretty simple... both ends come back together, but there is enough room on top of the harness for the wires to sit free without rubbing any sheetmetal or anything

turned my attention to running things into the back where the amps will be... it was quite a mystery for a bit, but i got things figured out...

it's pretty much a necessity to take of the side panel, the seats, and the finisher panel to leave this:


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## mattyjman

In the trunk, you have to remove these god-awful panels... what a *****..



















and then this is what you are left with... (my fish hanging out there)










after fishing the wires through, both the front speaker wires and H701 controller cable










and all buttoned up



















next i turned my attention to the center console and where i can stick the controller wiring










two nuts in the back










and various screws throughout










when pulling out the rear console, it's important that you unplug the harnesses for the rear convencience lights -- easiest thing to do is pop them out and then unplug


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## mattyjman

once the console is out, this is what we have left










running the cable into the center console



















all buttoned up










and then the console went back on...

more updates in a few hours... just taking a break right now


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## trojan fan

Looks like some nice progress


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## mattyjman

okay, what was supposed to take only a few hours brought me into today... putting the doors on. 

if anyone would consider these door panel pods as an option, a HUGE tip of advice would be to not tighten the door pod too much... i think some of my difficulty on getting the door on and the door pops staying is my tightening job of the door panel somehow caused a small bit of warping of the door itself. simple fix though, but time consuming after the fact, loosen up the door bolts a bit...

here are some finished pics:










then with the door trim










and then the grill










a couple side profile shots



















same thing on the opposite door




























and then the interior all buttoned up, minus some misc pieces...










i am quite pleased with these panels... they seem to blend in very well and it's a good use of space


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## Brian_smith06

damn that is sexy!!!!!!


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## fish

Those trios look awesome in those doors. That car is built very solid.


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## mattyjman

finally, a spare day...

making progress:


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## mattyjman

okay progress is being made... over the last two days i have been able to make quite a bit of progress on the kicks...

test aiming and seeing where I need to trim the molds...










trimming the kicks










testing fitment... i wanted these to be as unobtrusive as possible without cutting the carpet... i think this will turn out pretty good and minimal




























next up... mounting rings.... never leave home without your router and circle jig


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## mattyjman

securing the rings with hot glue and testing the aim... (no photos in the car, sorry)










beginning the wrapping process




























and resin applied




























that pretty much wiped out the remaining resin i have, time to order some more


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## mattyjman

okay, for all you people who think i'm crazy... here are some fitment pictures. doesn't look too bad after all, does it?


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## fish

Lookin' good Matt. Are you going to seal them up or vent them to the outside?


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## MTopper

i saw sandals! its currently 25 in detroit and i'm hating your warmth. great looking pods though


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## mine4118

graeat job in the door panels...Did you build an enclosure behid it???


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## ALL4SQ

Looking good. I always enjoy seeing kick panel build pictures.


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## carlr

Subscribed! I'm soon to start a build in my BMW F10 M-Sport, good to see other BMW builds. And I agree, hate building in Bimmers as well. Last build i did in a BMW was in a '03 E46 M3.. I had interference for like a year before I got it solved... Looking good!


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## jorgegarcia

mattyjman, I for one would recomend you buy a new car every year and do a detailled install, take lots of pictures and post them.

the FJ Cruiser was nice but this one is just awsome.


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## mattyjman

ALL4SQ said:


> Looking good. I always enjoy seeing kick panel build pictures.


thanks man... the more you do them the faster you get... I probably have spent about 4 hours total on these so far... the quickest I have ever done 



carlr said:


> Subscribed! I'm soon to start a build in my BMW F10 M-Sport, good to see other BMW builds. And I agree, hate building in Bimmers as well. Last build i did in a BMW was in a '03 E46 M3.. I had interference for like a year before I got it solved... Looking good!


i am hoping i don't run into interference as I am tapping directly into the MOST line... What were your problems and what did you do to fix it?



fish said:


> Lookin' good Matt. Are you going to seal them up or vent them to the outside?


thanks bud... i'm not running these too far done, maybe 200hz or something, so i'm going to let them breathe. if i left them sealed i would be a little worried about higher frequency resonances



MTopper said:


> i saw sandals! its currently 25 in detroit and i'm hating your warmth. great looking pods though


hate me


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## mattyjman

mine4118 said:


> graeat job in the door panels...Did you build an enclosure behid it???


they vent into the door... should be just fine there



jorgegarcia said:


> mattyjman, I for one would recomend you buy a new car every year and do a detailled install, take lots of pictures and post them.
> 
> the FJ Cruiser was nice but this one is just awsome.


i'll consider your recommendation  this one i'll be holding onto for a while though. i have been trying to talk my wife into getting a bimmer as well though... i love these cars!


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## Arthurk

Wow, you are the man! I have a 330Ci and I can't fathom trying to tear it all apart.


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## trojan fan

Nice and controlled build...I like it, so far...LOL


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## trojan fan

Matt, I see what you are up against as far as a sub enclosure goes, maybe you can try going subless, the 6.5's might surprise you. Anyway of getting some 8's under the seats


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## fish

trojan fan said:


> Matt, I see what you up against as far as a sub enclosure goes, maybe you can try going subless, the 6.5's might surprise you. Anyway of getting some 8's under the seats


He's gotta have something more than a bunch of 6.5"ers to keep up with those horns.


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## subwoofery

Matt, just cut some holes underneath your front seats. Put your subs there to vent outside. Space problem solved. 
Your wife will never know... Well I'm lying, they always manage to know everything  

Kelvin


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## Brian_smith06

trojan fan said:


> Matt, I see what you up against as far as a sub enclosure goes, maybe you can try going subless, the 6.5's might surprise you. Anyway of getting some 8's under the seats


No joke. I have one set of those mids in my car off an id q700.2 and it gets down right nasty. I feel like there is a sub in my dash at times. I was planning to run both pairs of my id mids each set off its own 700.2 but I'm oddly very happy with current results. And this is with no sub currently. I'm considering going subless and if I do run a sub strongly considering selling my max's and running an idq


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## trojan fan

Brian_smith06 said:


> No joke. I have one set of those mids in my car off an id q700.2 and it gets down right nasty. I feel like there is a sub in my dash at times. I was planning to run both pairs of my id mids each set off its own 700.2 but I'm oddly very happy with current results. And this is with no sub currently. I'm considering going subless and if I do run a sub strongly considering selling my max's and running an idq



X2... That's just what I thought, and he has multiple pairs.

thanks for your opinion Brian


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## mattyjman

trojan fan said:


> Matt, I see what you are up against as far as a sub enclosure goes, maybe you can try going subless, the 6.5's might surprise you. Anyway of getting some 8's under the seats





subwoofery said:


> Matt, just cut some holes underneath your front seats. Put your subs there to vent outside. Space problem solved.
> Your wife will never know... Well I'm lying, they always manage to know everything
> 
> Kelvin





Brian_smith06 said:


> No joke. I have one set of those mids in my car off an id q700.2 and it gets down right nasty. I feel like there is a sub in my dash at times. I was planning to run both pairs of my id mids each set off its own 700.2 but I'm oddly very happy with current results. And this is with no sub currently. I'm considering going subless and if I do run a sub strongly considering selling my max's and running an idq


thanks for the consideration guys but i already have a solution for the subs... and it won't be cutting the floors -- kelvin, you crazy. 

I purposely went for multiple pairs of x65's so i can run lower than the typical 80hz or so, but i have two SI BM MKIII's that I'll be having fire through the ski-pass into the cabin. results should be great with the top up, and with the top down, while i won't have a ton of bass, the extra x65's should help as they are close up front. 

it's either those SI's or I'll do a 10 or 12" ported... but right now, i already have the SI's and the box for them will take up the least amount of room. we'll see how far that gets me.


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## Brian_smith06

Idmax ported cough cough.


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## subwoofery

Brian_smith06 said:


> Idmax ported cough cough.


I guess you didn't read the whole thread (but I'm sure you did )... but what do you do about the space problem with your ported sub? 

Just sayin'
Kelvin


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## Brian_smith06

subwoofery said:


> I guess you didn't read the whole thread (but I'm sure you did )... but what do you do about the space problem with your ported sub?
> 
> Just sayin'
> Kelvin


I skimmed lol 


And who really needs a trunk? Doesn't the wife have a vehicle you can use for stuff like that 

I'm having trunk space issues as well though. I'm almost out of trunk space though with just 2 700.2's and an h701 and still need to squeeze another 700 in there a 1200 and my idmax's. Which i was going to run sealed but looks like ib it is due to lack of space. Oh and my stinger spv70 in the rear. My 2 spv35's up front will probably suffice seeing as I'll never use 3k rms in an sq car but would like the extra reserve just incase


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## mattyjman

Brian_smith06 said:


> I skimmed lol
> 
> 
> And who really needs a trunk? Doesn't the wife have a vehicle you can use for stuff like that
> 
> I'm having trunk space issues as well though. I'm almost out of trunk space though with just 2 700.2's and an h701 and still need to squeeze another 700 in there a 1200 and my idmax's. Which i was going to run sealed but looks like ib it is due to lack of space. Oh and my stinger spv70 in the rear. My 2 spv35's up front will probably suffice seeing as I'll never use 3k rms in an sq car but would like the extra reserve just incase


if you can't get all that to fit in your trunk you don't deserve all the nice gear 

i've got 4 amps, a h701, 2 12's, and a optical digital interface going in the trunk of my car.... not to mention wires, distros, fuses, etc.


----------



## mikey7182

mattyjman said:


> if you can't get all that to fit in your trunk you don't deserve all the nice gear
> 
> i've got 4 amps, a h701, 2 12's, and a optical digital interface going in the trunk of my car.... not to mention wires, distros, fuses, etc.


4 amps.... pfft. More like 4 decks of cards.


----------



## mattyjman

mikey7182 said:


> 4 amps.... pfft. More like 4 decks of cards.


hey man, don't be jealous... haters gonna hate


----------



## IBcivic

how did i miss this....suscribed!


----------



## Brian_smith06

mattyjman said:


> if you can't get all that to fit in your trunk you don't deserve all the nice gear
> 
> i've got 4 amps, a h701, 2 12's, and a optical digital interface going in the trunk of my car.... not to mention wires, distros, fuses, etc.


Lol fair enough. However I was hoping to have somewhat of a stealth install while keeping my spare tire however I think I'm just going to say screw it and do it how I want. The spare can go away. My dad owns a tow lot anyway so if I have issues he can come get me


----------



## Eastman474

Wow i really cant believe i missed this lol.. kick's look great and i dont know where to even start with the doors, but sooooo sick! Can't wait to see this all come together


----------



## mattyjman

^ you and me both... i've been thinking about handing this off to someone else to finish, but i can't as I doubt anyone would do this as well as i think they should. work has been an absolute ***** lately and I can't get any of this **** done


----------



## req

sweet so far lol. i was like WTF when you started building kicks LOL. thats a lot of speakers up front hhaha. im mostly worried about resonances in the doors because the pods are mounted to the door panel instead of the door frame. but i really find that pre-fab pocket for three 6.5's really interesting! very cool man.

keep the pics comming!!!


----------



## mattyjman

^ i was worried about resonances as well, (still am to a certain extent) but please believe me when i say it's a SOLID door. it's heavy, well put together, and i think all the extra leather and vinyl pieces help squash any potential resonances. this is day and night with my fj doors that buzzed like bees. 

keep your fingers crossed for me!


----------



## Eastman474

mattyjman said:


> ^ you and me both... i've been thinking about handing this off to someone else to finish, but i can't as I doubt anyone would do this as well as i think they should. work has been an absolute ***** lately and I can't get any of this **** done


I know that feeling well.... I havent been able to work on my setup at all for the last month  ..But oh well, gonna pull the box out this weekend and start rebuilding with 3 instead of 4 w15gti in a 4th order.


----------



## trojan fan

Any updates or is the build in limbo?.... not again...LOL


----------



## mattyjman

^ yeah... new car on the way


----------



## Eastman474

mattyjman said:


> ^ yeah... new car on the way


What!?


----------



## fish

mattyjman said:


> ^ yeah... new car on the way


LOL, whatcha got this time?


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> ^ yeah... new car on the way



We all want to know what is going on?.......new car?


----------



## mattyjman

nah... i was just messin' around. 

i got a new promotion at work so i have been ridiculously busy. when i come home i'm exhausted and don't want to even touch the car. but hopefully tomorrow i can get some good work done


----------



## Eastman474

mattyjman said:


> nah... i was just messin' around.
> 
> i got a new promotion at work so i have been ridiculously busy. when i come home i'm exhausted and don't want to even touch the car. but hopefully tomorrow i can get some good work done


Well congrats on the promotion buddy


----------



## danno14

Looking forward to your opinion on the sonics of the door pods..... considering the same manufacturer for my Bimmer.


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> nah... i was just messin' around.
> 
> i got a new promotion at work so i have been ridiculously busy. when i come home i'm exhausted and don't want to even touch the car. but hopefully tomorrow i can get some good work done


Congrats on your promotion.... thanks for the update


----------



## mattyjman

okay updates! yeah!

i got the initial mold of the kicks taken care of, so now it's time to prep them for the sem texture coat and satin gloss paint...

on the drivers side, i made the mold but without thought to keeping the hood release functional. it wouldn't fit, so i cut out part of the mold, and restretched fabric around that area to give a bit more room for the handle. (this caused a huge amount of work while finishing the panel) here it is with first layer of rage body filler










both panels together










and after initial sanding, reading for rage coat 2










sanded both panels down again, and before i got any further, decided to do a milkshake in the inside of the kicks (3 parts body fillers, 1 part resin =milkshake) so it would seal any holes i may have missed as well as add some rigidity to the kickpanel










and third layers of rage



















sanding completed



















and high build primer sprayed


----------



## mattyjman

spot filling pin holes and low areas



















primer applied again










i'm going to use these panels as a integrated mounting solution for the horns, so next up for that is fitting and hanging the horns, finding where to mount the brackets, and them finish spraying with SEM color and texture coat

i turned my attention to the back... this bracket holds the factoy amp... i cut off two legs and will continue to use this as my mounting solution for the h701 and motech da1000



















i had originally planned on keeping all 4 amps in this location, but they simply won't fit, and that leaves out space for the h701... with the tight constraints, i am going to have to mount the amps on top of the floor in a similar configuration as this (4 total) and have it enclosed and protected


----------



## Eastman474

Nice Matt... Kicks look great, how big are they volume wise?


----------



## mattyjman

Eastman474 said:


> Nice Matt... Kicks look great, how big are they volume wise?


i have no idea... if i had to guess they are about .35 or so... they are going to end up being vented anyway, so volume isn't too big of a deal


----------



## mattyjman

three more pictures... kicks in (not completed yet, but a test fit, and the horn mounted on the right side)


----------



## Eastman474

mattyjman said:


> i have no idea... if i had to guess they are about .35 or so... they are going to end up being vented anyway, so volume isn't too big of a deal


Gotcha, didn't know they were gonna end up vented.... They look sik and the horns look sik with them


----------



## fish

Very nice work Matt. Glad to see you back at it making some progress.

Forgive me if it's posted at the beginning of the thread, but what frequency band are the mids in the kicks going to be playing?

P.S. Congrats on the promotion!


----------



## mattyjman

^ thank man! frequencies i am unsure of. 1000hz on down to ? Until I get everything up and running I won't know how high the midbass drivers can play before they start drawing the stage back and to the side. I would guess something like 250 or so but won't know for sure until we do get that ironed out


----------



## fish

One more thing... What "point" did you end up aiming them at, & how many degrees off axis are they?


----------



## mattyjman

i generally have good results aiming at the other seat (headrest)... as far as degrees and laser pointers i didn't go that far


----------



## mattyjman

learned a very important lesson today... 

read the labels. read. 

so i stopped last weekend with prepping the kickpanels, spraying the SEM texture coating, SEM black, and then SEM clear. this is how they turned out 










not at all what I had expected. as you can see in this picture, the texture was way too much... almost looked like flocking... i was pissed. 










so today, i decided to sand it all off and start with a clean slate. well, it turns out that i didn't need to sand it all off, as i found halfway through that I was getting the texture that I was expecting. 

turns out the can says to sand afterward... i thought that was crazy to sand off all the texture i just sprayed on. little did i know that they knew what they were talking about. after some black paint, this is the texture i was expecting more of










more to come tomorrow


----------



## Eastman474

Looks good man. Good to see you got some time to work on it


----------



## mattyjman

forward progress feels great!

so, in light of needing to finish my install this year, i have abandoned the thought of having all 4 amps in the space where the factory amp was located. they COULD fit, but they won't. 

so here is how it's going to look. i'll fab up a cover for it and it will butt up right against the sub box, so it'll look like it belongs










so in place of the factory amp, I'll be placing the h701 and the mobridge da1000 in it's place. here they are secured to the factory metal piece with industry strength velcro. (what?) 










and in the location mounted. all they need to be now is wired up and they are good to go










turning my attention to the wiring, the BMW battery has this funky fuse/explosive that will explode in an accident, severing all wiring connections to the battery. weird. 










so i used good ole crimp connections for my 1/0 wiring, and here it is all buttoned up in there










moving directions back to the front, I finished the front stage. Yay! 

each kickpanel got a double dose of gasket tape










and speaker now attached to the panel










right side with the horn hung (the paint looks blue in the photo's for some reason)










left side with horn hung










and one with the final... the front all buttoned up and no more mess. can't see the horns... cool


----------



## fish

Oh man, that turned out real nice. Can't wait to see what you have to say about the way it sounds.


----------



## mikey7182

Looks great man! Gonna have to get together next week for sure.


----------



## mattyjman

last thing to wrap up the day was to get the rca bundle out of the way. i have been making rca's for my last three installs, but thought it would be worthwhile to document this for anyone who is interested. 

i use gepco wire and neutrik connectors, along with some heatshrink, heat gun, solder, and soldering iron, razor blade. 

why not get regular wire? this has ended up cheaper and more rewarding, plus I can cut to size, so i don't need to have a huge bundle ziptied out of the way in my install. 

on to the pics....

since i am reusing a previous bundle, i am shortening the lengths on one end only. here are all the pieces that come with the connectors










start by scoring the gepco with a razor blade, crack it around until you can peel it off. this is incredibly simple, just roll your razor blade around the sheating, and then pull. 










on one end of the rca, you will combine the "drain" along with the black wire. on the other end you terminate the drain so it is not included in the connection. it helps with possible noise. 










in the case of these connectors, it's helpful if you cut the black wire shorter than the red, and then strip a tiny bit off of each end. the less the better as long as you can get good contact










red goes into the center hole. i found the easiest way to do this is full the cup with solder first, then push the red into it while the solder is hot. same goes for the black wire.










next up, heatsrink the wires up to the rca end. i put a 90 degree (ish) bend in these end of the rca's while the shrink was still hot. this will come into play in my install later.










insert the strain relief, plastic helper, and the body of the rca and this is what you get.










and the whole bundle completed:










i used red and black heat shrink to designate left and right rca's, as well as numbered the rca's with shrink on the outside. 

that's it for tonight, but tomorrow i hope to have this bad boy up and running (at least the front stage) and we'll see how she blows


----------



## mattyjman

well this weekend i busted my butt to get this car completed.. well at least the front stage. 

here a few pics showing the wiring and everything all buttoned up for now...




























and.... 

NO SOUND.  I have a slight hint of engine noise, and got some speaker pops when I was selecting different settings on my h701, so i knew that the amps were powering up and giving the speakers some juice. i was able to connect to the controller of the h701 so i knew that was working... 

i had a hunch that the mobridge da1000, but i wasn't able to confirm that until today. when i got the DA1000 from EAS Motorsports I had my concerns about it being used. the finish of the piece had a bunch of scratches, from what looked like previous usage. Through multiple emails I was assured that it was indeed brand new and would work as advertised. Fastforward today and I find out that my concerns about this unit a few months ago were valid. it doesn't work. at all. 

to eliminate this piece and ensure that everything else was working as needed, I hooked up my ipod to the analog inputs and that worked. next was to ensure that the digital input was working on the h701. i hauled my home dvd player outside and connected with a digital connection and I got audio as well. Through the process of elimination I determined that this piece is the broken part of my puzzle. 

I emailed my contact at EAS today to see what they are going to do, but I am hoping that they ship me out a new unit and I can return the defective one. For now though I am in a holding pattern. Bummer.


----------



## Eastman474

awww bummer man sorry to hear this..


----------



## mikey7182

Eastman474 said:


> awww bummer man sorry to hear this..


What, you don't have a spare Mobridge DA1000 sitting in the garage you can ship him?


----------



## Eastman474

Lol nope sorry Matt mikes the only one around lucky enough for his budds to have extra parts that he needs :b .. Speaking of which Matt have you gotten to hear mikes new pile of sh** he calls a system yet?


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> well this weekend i busted my butt to get this car completed.. well at least the front stage.
> 
> here a few pics showing the wiring and everything all buttoned up for now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and....
> 
> NO SOUND.  I have a slight hint of engine noise, and got some speaker pops when I was selecting different settings on my h701, so i knew that the amps were powering up and giving the speakers some juice. i was able to connect to the controller of the h701 so i knew that was working...
> 
> i had a hunch that the mobridge da1000, but i wasn't able to confirm that until today. when i got the DA1000 from EAS Motorsports I had my concerns about it being used. the finish of the piece had a bunch of scratches, from what looked like previous usage. Through multiple emails I was assured that it was indeed brand new and would work as advertised. Fastforward today and I find out that my concerns about this unit a few months ago were valid. it doesn't work. at all.
> 
> to eliminate this piece and ensure that everything else was working as needed, I hooked up my ipod to the analog inputs and that worked. next was to ensure that the digital input was working on the h701. i hauled my home dvd player outside and connected with a digital connection and I got audio as well. Through the process of elimination I determined that this piece is the broken part of my puzzle.
> 
> I emailed my contact at EAS today to see what they are going to do, but I am hoping that they ship me out a new unit and I can return the defective one. For now though I am in a holding pattern. Bummer.




I hate when that **** happens....just don't sell the car


----------



## minibox

sorry to hear your mobridge isn't working. I've been very pleased with mine. The couple of times I've called the company their customer service has been excellent. Good luck.


----------



## vidizzle

subbed gonna be using this as my guide if i get around to an isntall in a e9x ..

how do the speakers play in the kicks? is it vented or completely sealed up? how is the midbass response?

as thats one problem thats holding me back from an install is mounting location for a 6" midbass.. i dont have the skills to do a door and other options are really expensive..


----------



## mattyjman

vidizzle said:


> subbed gonna be using this as my guide if i get around to an isntall in a e9x ..
> 
> how do the speakers play in the kicks? is it vented or completely sealed up? how is the midbass response?
> 
> as thats one problem thats holding me back from an install is mounting location for a 6" midbass.. i dont have the skills to do a door and other options are really expensive..


the kicks are open backed. how they sound ? == i have no idea  the vendor that i bought the mobridge from sold me a used/bricked unit. if they had been honest and up front back in January I might actually have some music. I have sent the unit to mobridge for service/replacement, so in the next few days i'll be able to tune/listen finally. 

in the e9x there is plenty of room for kicks... i chose to not cut any carpet, but if you are willing to do that, then you'll find plenty of room... enough for a 8" even.


----------



## matdotcom2000

I have been looking at your car and I envy you right now been trying to decide between this car and the 6 series... But any ways found this guy that put a 2.6 cubic inch box in the trunk figured you would want to check it out. 
2008 BMW 335i Audio System Upgrade pictures from good times photos on webshots


----------



## mattyjman

matdotcom2000 said:


> I have been looking at your car and I envy you right now been trying to decide between this car and the 6 series... But any ways found this guy that put a 2.6 cubic inch box in the trunk figured you would want to check it out.
> 2008 BMW 335i Audio System Upgrade pictures from good times photos on webshots


interesting install. one guarantee is that his trunk rattles like crazy. there are so many plastic moving pieces in the trunk and no way to keep them from rattling without a huge investment in time. 

with my sub enclosure, i'm basically sealing off the trunk from the sub, so it is firing into the cabin, but not the trunk. I am hoping that this will keep some of the rattles down.


----------



## vidizzle

how much was the mobridge kind sir? i searched eas' website but didnt find the da1000 on there..


----------



## mattyjman

don't buy it from them anyway... I got screwed by them and they'd do the same to you. I'd contact mobridge directly and find out who other authorized dealers they have. DO NOT USE EAS.


----------



## vidizzle

so what would you recommend i use to get singal from the idrive to the h701?
or what are you going to use then?

as im payin really close attention to your builld as im contemplating getting an e92 but how difficult it would be to install audio is .. is my determining factor lol


----------



## bertholomey

vidizzle said:


> so what would you recommend i use to get singal from the idrive to the h701?
> or what are you going to use then?
> 
> as im payin really close attention to your builld as im contemplating getting an e92 but how difficult it would be to install audio is .. is my determining factor lol


If I may.....

He is not saying to stay away from the Mobridge, just EAS.

I have a friend who recently installed his system in a 135i - he was able to go directly to the Bit One from the HU.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/102679-08-bmw-135i-making-most-stock-locations.html 

Not sure if that would be an option in the e92 that you are looking to go with, but it certainly worked for him to maintain the factory HU - especially to be able to use the factory blue tooth.


----------



## trojan fan

Another one bites the dust and another and another one....dude I'm serious, get some help


----------



## mattyjman

what exactly are you serious about?


----------



## fish

I saw you sold the Lite Boxes, what's on the agenda next?


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> what exactly are you serious about?



Really dude, think about it......OCD


----------



## mattyjman

trojan fan said:


> Really dude, think about it......OCD


it's surprising how fast you get on my nerves... I would like to think that we are all a little OCD in one way or another  ... so yeah, i'm ocd. I also care how my system sounds... who doesn't? 



fish said:


> I saw you sold the Lite Boxes, what's on the agenda next?


I simply underestimated my power requirements for my front stage. I'm used to effecient speakers, pro audio type, but these aren't nearly as effecient as I would like. with the need for more power I am rethinking how I am doing my amps and subs... I'm tossing around the idea of going with two jl xd700/5 amps for my front stage, and then a xd for my SI subs... I will plan out a bit more professional amp rack as well. 

my desire to get this done got the best of me and i simply rushed through this. rushing never gets you to where you ultimately want to be.


----------



## fish

I've been eyeballing one of those XD600/6's for my mids/highs for a while now. How would you configure the two 700/5's on the fronts?

OCD... yeah I got a bad case of that too.


----------



## subwoofery

fish said:


> I've been eyeballing one of those XD600/6's for my mids/highs for a while now. *How would you configure the two 700/5's on the fronts?* Wondering the same...
> 
> OCD... yeah I got a bad case of that too.


Pardon my stupid question but what is OCD? :blush: 

Kelvin


----------



## mattyjman

fish said:


> I've been eyeballing one of those XD600/6's for my mids/highs for a while now. How would you configure the two 700/5's on the fronts?
> 
> OCD... yeah I got a bad case of that too.


well, i'm not certain i've made up my mind yet... 

but it would work like this:

1 amp would do 75 to the horns, 300 to the midbasses in one door... and one open channel

2nd amp would 200 to the mids bridged, then 300 to the midbasses in the other door

this would be quite a bit more power to every driver except the horns, which had plenty to begin with the vibe amps....

a configuration like this is what i'm considering


----------



## subwoofery

All 3 midbasses wired down to 1 ohm? Is the XD 700/5 a 1 ohm (well more like 1.34) stable amp on the sub channel? 

Kelvin


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> well, i'm not certain i've made up my mind yet...
> 
> but it would work like this:
> 
> 1 amp would do 75 to the horns, 300 to the midbasses in one door... and one open channel
> 
> 2nd amp would 200 to the mids bridged, then 300 to the midbasses in the other door
> 
> this would be quite a bit more power to every driver except the horns, which had plenty to begin with the vibe amps....
> 
> a configuration like this is what i'm considering



Let me help you out here.....YOU ARE GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION AGAIN....what you are saying makes no sense at all.... if anything, it's less power and a lot less headroom....**** it, sell the car and start all over AGAIN


----------



## trojan fan

subwoofery said:


> Pardon my stupid question but what is OCD? :blush:
> 
> Kelvin


Obsessive-compulsive disorder - PubMed Health


----------



## subwoofery

Thanks man... 

Kelvin


----------



## Brian_smith06

Id q600.1 for left midbass and one for right mids 
450.4 for midrange and horns 
And then 1 or 2 more 600's for subs


----------



## mikey7182

Brian_smith06 said:


> Id q600.1 for left midbass and one for right mids
> 450.4 for midrange and horns
> And then 1 or 2 more 600's for subs


I'd love to see Matt shoehorn 4 surfboard A/B PowerBass amps in the trunk of his 335...


----------



## JayinMI

Don't do it. Those XD's sound like crap. On every one we've installed, the bass has been thin, and the sound unlifelike. I just had to switch an XD400/4 into a Viper because an older PDX5 wouldn't fit, and even the PDX5 sounded much better. Higher noise floor, but overall MUCH better sounding. Similar volume.

I like where this is going, and can't wait to see it done. I just hate to see you waste your money.

I seem to remember you being an "all amps sound the same" guy, but I've done A/B comparisons, and it is an EASILY noticeable difference with all other things being equal.

And, OCD can be a good thing...otherwise we'd all have "temporary" systems. 

Jay


----------



## mattyjman

subwoofery said:


> All 3 midbasses wired down to 1 ohm? Is the XD 700/5 a 1 ohm (well more like 1.34) stable amp on the sub channel?
> 
> ok, well I forgot to add... i'm going to pull one of those midbasses from the door and seal up the speaker hole. the vibe boxes did about same power wired to two ohms as it did bridged, so i had 1 of the three bridged, and two running on two ohms. this seems kinda hokey to me, and from what I was able to tell, I'll have more than enough just from the two midbasses. (also, this would help one of my install problems with the doors)
> 
> Kelvin





trojan fan said:


> Let me help you out here.....YOU ARE GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION AGAIN....what you are saying makes no sense at all.... if anything, it's less power and a lot less headroom....**** it, sell the car and start all over AGAIN


i don't know how it's less power. you should put yourself through gradeschool again so you can learn math. i think it's great you have such concern for my build, and whether or not I'm going to "go the wrong direction". I suppose you think I should have stayed with the vibe amps then? 



Brian_smith06 said:


> Id q600.1 for left midbass and one for right mids
> 450.4 for midrange and horns
> And then 1 or 2 more 600's for subs


I don't like ID anymore  Brian, did you ever finish your install. I haven't seen any updates lately. 



mikey7182 said:


> I'd love to see Matt shoehorn 4 surfboard A/B PowerBass amps in the trunk of his 335...


I shoehorned something in your mom last night 

but seriously, I am seriously considering your most recent recommendation, with a slight twist. thanks for the tip


----------



## mattyjman

JayinMI said:


> Don't do it. Those XD's sound like crap. On every one we've installed, the bass has been thin, and the sound unlifelike. I just had to switch an XD400/4 into a Viper because an older PDX5 wouldn't fit, and even the PDX5 sounded much better. Higher noise floor, but overall MUCH better sounding. Similar volume.
> 
> I like where this is going, and can't wait to see it done. I just hate to see you waste your money.
> 
> I seem to remember you being an "all amps sound the same" guy, but I've done A/B comparisons, and it is an EASILY noticeable difference with all other things being equal.
> 
> And, OCD can be a good thing...otherwise we'd all have "temporary" systems.
> 
> Jay


jay, thanks for the tip. I had good luck with the slash amps, so thought i would give this a shot. but... i guess I need to take a look at some other options. 

and no, i don't think all amps sound the same. i just can't hang with all the scientific folk around here that debate that. I've definitely heard differences.


----------



## Brian_smith06

mattyjman said:


> I don't like ID anymore  Brian, did you ever finish your install. I haven't seen any updates lately.


Fair enough. I'm awaiting the new Eric Stevens products. 

And haven't worked on my car for a bit. Ended up selling all of my processing and considering selling off all my amps if I can find a buyer for all 4 amps. If that happens I'd like to do a pair of jl 450/4's and a 1000/1 however have been told that would be a noticeable downgrade since my amps are modded. And also want to go back to an h701 however the simplicity of an all in one like the P01 would be nice however don't think it'll match my car well at all


----------



## eviling

man, i love that you can just add those 3 drivers to your door panel with pre built pods like that, i wish i could do something like that. that'd be ****ing awesome, the pressence of that stage is gonna be emence lol

but aren't you worried about point of source sound effects? all your staging is so low :\ and what did yo do with the mids in the stock location? did you keep the stock ones or did you replace them? i doubt stock mids could keep up with that kind of mid bass lol


----------



## mattyjman

eviling said:


> man, i love that you can just add those 3 drivers to your door panel with pre built pods like that, i wish i could do something like that. that'd be ****ing awesome, the pressence of that stage is gonna be emence lol
> 
> but aren't you worried about point of source sound effects? all your staging is so low :\ and what did yo do with the mids in the stock location? did you keep the stock ones or did you replace them? i doubt stock mids could keep up with that kind of mid bass lol


you must be a horn virgin. staging with the vibes i just pulled out was about the rear view mirror... i don't think we'll have a problem there. if you get a chance, listen to someone near you that has horns. it'll change your life


----------



## JayinMI

I'd like to hear some horns that sound good. The only cars I've ever heard that had horns sounded like they had 2 separate stages. A left and a right...and the highs were WAY too bright. I'd love to hear some that are set up right and see how it's supposed to be.

Jay


----------



## subwoofery

mattyjman said:


> *you must be a horn virgin*. staging with the vibes i just pulled out was about the rear view mirror... i don't think we'll have a problem there. if you get a chance, listen to someone near you that has horns. it'll change your life


^ Exactly what I though  

*Eviling* 
Why did you say that his stage will be low? If you have a low stage, it's only a tuning issue. You can have a high stage even with all drivers at your knees... 

Kelvin


----------



## IBcivic

subwoofery said:


> Pardon my stupid question but what is OCD? :blush:
> 
> Kelvin


Troubles obsessif compulsif AKA syndrome du TOC


----------



## eviling

mattyjman said:


> you must be a horn virgin. staging with the vibes i just pulled out was about the rear view mirror... i don't think we'll have a problem there. if you get a chance, listen to someone near you that has horns. it'll change your life


:\ Idk about all that. link me some horns to look at, maybe i'll pick some up to try out for ****s and giggles some time when i have a few more bucks to play.


----------



## Eastman474

I said the same thing until I made the switch to horns ... I'll say it was definitely my best choice ever in car audio I've ever made and I'll never go back to conventional drivers .


----------



## subwoofery

eviling said:


> :\ Idk about all that. link me some horns to look at, maybe i'll pick some up to try out for ****s and giggles some time when i have a few more bucks to play.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/104763-id-ultra-horns-$275-shipped.html 
Ready to use and priced to sell... 

Kelvin


----------



## mattyjman

eviling said:


> :\ Idk about all that. link me some horns to look at, maybe i'll pick some up to try out for ****s and giggles some time when i have a few more bucks to play.


no offense man, but i doubt you have the patience to do a horn integration right. if you were going to "try it out" i bet you would end up doing it wrong and hating the results. not that horns are hard, but you have to carefully plan your install and the rest of your driver integration. hit up the hlcd section we have here.


----------



## bertholomey

I recently heard a very good car with horns at our recent meet 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/94769-2003-volkswagen-gti-1-8t-image-dynamics-memphis-alpine-%2Alots-pictures%2A.html


----------



## Brian_smith06

subwoofery said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/104763-id-ultra-horns-$275-shipped.html
> Ready to use and priced to sell...
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks for linking that  I can't believe I haven't sold them yet!


----------



## danno14

OCD =Obsessive Compulsive DISORDER..... What it those of us with it don't consider it a disorder, but in this case a benefit? 

Carry on


----------



## req

bertholomey said:


> I recently heard a very good car with horns at our recent meet
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/94769-2003-volkswagen-gti-1-8t-image-dynamics-memphis-alpine-%2Alots-pictures%2A.html



thanks for the kind words j.

its tricky to get them right, but when they work - it works well. the biggest problem i have currently is that my midbass\midrange is not efficent enough and does not play high enough (1.2khz) to mate with the horns. but i think i have that solution and i am going to move toward the solution i have found.


----------



## eviling

mattyjman said:


> no offense man, but i doubt you have the patience to do a horn integration right. if you were going to "try it out" i bet you would end up doing it wrong and hating the results. not that horns are hard, but you have to carefully plan your install and the rest of your driver integration. hit up the hlcd section we have here.


yeah i probobly would botch it up. i probobly would never get around to it, i never finish my projects, i'm still weeks into this A pillar pod project, granted i DID finish them once already and have started over :blush:


----------



## trojan fan

eviling said:


> yeah i probobly would botch it up. i probobly would never get around to it, i never finish my projects, i'm still weeks into this A pillar pod project, granted i DID finish them once already and have started over :blush:



Are you describing yourself or the person that started this thread?....LOL


----------



## meantaco

so will you recommend the vibe litebox amps?


----------



## DAT

meantaco said:


> so will you recommend the vibe litebox amps?


IMHO hell no junk !!!


----------



## eviling

mattyjman said:


> no offense man, but i doubt you have the patience to do a horn integration right. if you were going to "try it out" i bet you would end up doing it wrong and hating the results. not that horns are hard, but you have to carefully plan your install and the rest of your driver integration. hit up the hlcd section we have here.


I heard some horns when i was down in MD, i heard REQ's ID horns, and color me impressed, they image quite nicely.


----------



## trojan fan

So what ever happened to his build.....Matt...anyone

another one bites the dust and another one and another one.....


----------



## fish

Matt, I see you're revamping your gear again. 

Any hints what it's going to be this time? Are you still going to use the horns?


----------



## mattyjman

ok, i'll play. 

okay... so after popping the vibe amps in, i got massive amounts of noise. couple that with finicky gain pots and low volume, i wasn't really impressed at all. pulled them out and sold them, put my factory amp back in and have been listening to rear speakers for a couple months now  

a few weeks ago we had a meet at one of the local shops, and i was able to audition Bob Morrow's Tacoma. He was running HAT L4SE (no tweets), some 5" midbasses, and the new HAT 6.5" subs. WOW. Talk about a well set up system. The staging was impecable, and the tonality and overall experience was just about all I have been looking for. The subs didn't exactly have the low end i prefer but it wasn't bad. What was impressive was the dynamics of these L4SE's.... wow. wow. wow. 

one of the struggles i have been having is that I have always felt that a horn setup somewhat compromises clarity and detail for in your face dynamics. however, the reverse of that is true as well, conventional speakers have great clarity and detail, but lessor dynamics. this tradeoff has been bothering me for some time, because i sit right in the middle of the two. i want both equally as much. 

well, consider me sold on the HAT's. I had a decent set up in my FJ with the L8, L3, L1v2 separates before I put in horns, and really was quite impressed with them. Sitting with Bob gave me a chance to reevaluate my tastes and interests, and when all is said and done, clarity and imaging edges out extreme dynamics (i had mikey1782's truck to compare against -- horns, 2119's, 12" midbass, 2 15 gti's -- what an experience.).

So, enter part two of my BMW build. 

Stock Head Unit - outputs digital MOST signal -->
MoBridge DA1000 - converts MOST to an optical digital signal -->
H701/C701 or BitOne - signal processing -->
Mosconi AS 200.4 Amps (3) -->
HAT L1 Pro R2 Tweeter
HAT L4SE Midrange
(2 Pair) HAT L6SE Midbasses
(2) SI BM MKIII Subs

This should round my system, but I am still procuring the equipment. Everything should stay the same.

Locations should remain the same, with the tweeters going in the sail panels of the door, mid in the kicks, and the midbasses in my existing door pods. 

This should be interesting, so stay tuned.


----------



## trojan fan

^ That all sounds good.... now lets get-r-done before you decide to buy a new car.....Good luck with part 2


----------



## ErinH

mattyjman said:


> What was impressive was the dynamics of these L4SE's.... wow. wow. wow.


I felt the same way when I heard them. I was really impressed by these drivers. The L4s measure better in nearly every way but in my auditioning, the L4SE just had a bit different tonality than the L4. Not quite Scan-esque, but there was nothing bad for me to say about the L4SE at the end of the testing. And I tried. Hard.


----------



## garrett2r2taz

wow looks amazing good to see taking a high end car and doing work to it!


----------



## mattyjman

WOW. WOW. WOW..

So, today was kick panel demolition day. Took me a while to get back to the factory kicks, removing all the fiberglass from the kickpanel pods i made. once that was done, i was eager to get the L4SE mids in and start playing with them. 

Lesson Learned. Until now, I haven't paid much attention to aiming of the drivers, always assuming that shooting across axis would give the best compromise from both seats. I never cared about height of the driver, etc. 

Well, this time I decided to take some time, bring out some towels, and play with placement while I was playing some good jams. I can say, embarrassingly, that I have completely missed to boat when it comes to "install, install, install". Everyone says, it's not the drivers, it's how you install them. Well, I think drivers do make a difference, but I never really cared about aiming and how important that is. Now I have proof. 

I started aiming off axis -- this had subpar results. I aimed them at the opposite listener, which gave better results. I decided to take them and prop them up as high and back as they can go, and wow. Welcome to wide and deep stage. Center was still a bit off, so I moved the drivers side L4 to be more on axis with the driver. Just a small change like that, maybe 1" of movement, made such a dramatic difference in center stage. 

This process I followed, took about 1 hour or so. After I got the "sweet spot" I simply listened to more and more songs, loving every minute. Just with the L4's. 

The stage was incredibly high, wide, and deep. Just these two speakers were able to create quite a bit of room ambience as well -- not sure how, but i know these locations are best. 

Here are a few pics of what I ended up with. 

Here is my test rig:










some aiming pics









































I know there are other people out there like me that didn't think it was worth the time to hook up the speakers and test the aiming. Do IT. You won't be sorry and you'll see what you have been missing.
.
.
.
.


----------



## trojan fan

Nice to see some progress...where are you going to mount the tweeters or is tweeter-less an option?


----------



## mattyjman

tweeterless is most definitely an option. however, i was planning on molding them into the existing sail panels, off axis. one of the great things about these speakers, is how flexible they are. there are many different types of crossover settings that can be used to make things "el primo"  so i would rather use the tweeter than not, plus i think they will be able to help bring up the stage a bit higher as well. i won't know, however, until i get it all in.


----------



## bkjay

Good to know about aiming. When you go to install them how do you lock in the same position that was tested.


----------



## mattyjman

what i'll do is get the base of the fiberglass completed, put them in their mounting rings and re-aim them where they were. play them to confirm positioning and them glue them into place with hot glue and dowels. once dry i'll be able to pull mold cloth over the mounting rings, and they will keep their positioning. 

i'm not sure if that's the most efficient process, but it sounds about right.


----------



## bkjay

Cool thanks! can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the good work.


----------



## fish

Glad to see you did some preliminary testing. I like that idea of raising them up off the floor. From the pics it looks like you're going more for a one-seater now.

I know it's the early stages with towels, EQ, & such, but where about was your stage height?

Oh yeah, any concerns with not having enough volume (coming from horns & all)?


----------



## mattyjman

okay, question for you fiberglass friends... 

step 1 in this project is envisioning the end result. 

what i would like to see is very minimal foot space taken, and with the L4SE, I think I am on my way. However, I'm not sure how to make a small kick panel mold blend in "factory style" with what I have. 

Let me illustrate:

My kicks look like this...



















and the positioning as posted a few comments above



















The speakers are up off the floor about at least 6 inches. If i mold off the kick panel alone, i'll end up with a pod sticking out in the air, not connected to the ground. If I mold to the floor and blend it in, they'll be about as big as they were with the 6.5 speakers I had in there, which is not needed. 

the best thing i could compare it to would be two of Bing's different installs (not throwing him under the bus, he provides a lot of inspiration to my methods  )

here is a 6.5 off of the kick panel

http://simplicity.elitecaraudio.org/brycez4.JPG

and one that was built high off the floor but connected to the floor in the pod. 

http://simplicity.elitecaraudio.org/abe4.JPG

what i want is something in between...

any ideas


----------



## mattyjman

fish said:


> Glad to see you did some preliminary testing. I like that idea of raising them up off the floor. From the pics it looks like you're going more for a one-seater now.
> 
> I know it's the early stages with towels, EQ, & such, but where about was your stage height?
> 
> Oh yeah, any concerns with not having enough volume (coming from horns & all)?


staging was actually quite nice on both sides, but yes, i only care about my side for now  

stage height for most songs was about half way between the dash and the mirror. male vocals and lower octave music seemed to pull the stage down slightly, to about the dash. i'm not sure why? but i would guess that early reflections off the underside of the footwells were causing some issues. i intend on wrapping them in a sound absorbing fabric, to cancel out those reflections. 

last question... no. when i had HAT's before in my FJ I was quite impressed with their composure at loud listening levels. These get loud, and provide a surprising amount of dynamic detail, all the while preserving a crisp clear tonality. I'm not worried about it all, because what i'm making up for in lost volume potential, i'm gaining in clarity, staging, and detail.


----------



## bkjay

With your setup volume should be plenty.


----------



## fish

Thanks for answering my questions Matt.

As far as the two choices of kick designs you posted, I like how the first link has a smoother transition with the interior. Plus, they would be quite smaller compared to that 6.5" in the pic, I would think. I think something like that with some curvature to it would look really nice.

I should also add, I don't have any FG skills. That's just my opinion as far as visually pleasing & spaciousness.


----------



## mattyjman

^ one thing i may try, which i have never done before, is to get some floral foam and see what type of shape i can make with that first. it might take a bit more time in the beginning to see how i can shape it, but would be better than molding something and not liking it... lol that would suck.


----------



## ISTundra

Matt, I have the L4SE's in kickpods in my IS350. Each is aimed to be on-axis for the opposite seat, or in other words the driver's side is off-axis. As you discovered, this really screws up the image. I'm thinking about redoing (I mean having Jon redo) the driver kick to get it more on-axis.

Here's a couple of pics for reference.

















As for the pod itself, I wasn't sure I wanted to make a permanent mod, so I had Jon build these so that the sealed pods are basically sitting on the carpet (bolted). The pods can be modded to vent into the kick later, but they're large enough for the L4SE's to play down to 400 hz now. 

I planned on running this setup tweeterless, but haven't had much luck getting the stage as high as I'd like, so I'll probably add a tweeter later (why I wanted the Phass tweets at the GTG).

Anyway, a couple of thoughts and maybe ideas for ya.


----------



## ErinH

these measurements might help you guys, in regards to aiming:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/bikinpunks-product-review-forum/106303-hybrid-audio-l4-l4se.html

L4SE @ 0, 30, & 60 degrees:










If you can EQ out the bump @ 8-10khz, you can probably get away with going tweeterless if you go on-axis. Personally, I, like Matt, like having a tweeter in addition to a mid even if it's noted as a 'wideband' driver.


----------



## fish

mattyjman said:


> ^ one thing i may try, which i have never done before, is to get some floral foam and see what type of shape i can make with that first. it might take a bit more time in the beginning to see how i can shape it, but would be better than molding something and not liking it... lol that would suck.



Oh definately! If you take your time until it's perfect I bet you could come up with something that integrates really well.


----------



## mattyjman

ISTundra said:


> Matt, I have the L4SE's in kickpods in my IS350. Each is aimed to be on-axis for the opposite seat, or in other words the driver's side is off-axis. As you discovered, this really screws up the image. *(That's why I was so surprised when I did it. I never knew it would make that much of a difference. Axis to the other listener was "supposed" to be the best compromise, but now we know that it's not. )*I'm thinking about redoing (I mean having Jon redo) the driver kick to get it more on-axis.
> 
> Here's a couple of pics for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the pod itself, I wasn't sure I wanted to make a permanent mod, so I had Jon build these so that the sealed pods are basically sitting on the carpet (bolted). The pods can be modded to vent into the kick later, but they're large enough for the L4SE's to play down to 400 hz now.
> 
> I planned on running this setup tweeterless, but haven't had much luck getting the stage as high as I'd like, so I'll probably add a tweeter later (why I wanted the Phass tweets at the GTG).
> 
> Anyway, a couple of thoughts and maybe ideas for ya.


What also made a significant improvement in height and depth of the stage was moving the Mids up and far back. If you can tame initial reflections (carpet or something) off the underside I think this could help improve your staging a bit as well. It's a little counter-intuitive, but in my car that's what i found. If you are going to have Jon redo them, then you may at least play with it a bit and see. 

I could totally do this install tweeterless... I think some eq on the top end, possibly where Erin is suggesting, should bring the stage up a bit higher as well. so don't give up on that concept yet... I just want the tweeters there to assist with any weird anomalies that might arise when i get all the components in place. 

THanks


----------



## mattyjman

bikinpunk said:


> these measurements might help you guys, in regards to aiming:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/bikinpunks-product-review-forum/106303-hybrid-audio-l4-l4se.html
> 
> L4SE @ 0, 30, & 60 degrees:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can EQ out the bump @ 8-10khz, you can probably get away with going tweeterless if you go on-axis. Personally, I, like Matt, like having a tweeter in addition to a mid even if it's noted as a 'wideband' driver.


what do you think about that dip at 300? the 2k dip looks to be about where hearing is a bit more sensitive, right? They certainly didn't give off a huge amount of that when i was listening


----------



## ISTundra

mattyjman said:


> What also made a significant improvement in height and depth of the stage was moving the Mids up and far back. If you can tame initial reflections (carpet or something) off the underside I think this could help improve your staging a bit as well. It's a little counter-intuitive, but in my car that's what i found. If you are going to have Jon redo them, then you may at least play with it a bit and see.
> 
> I could totally do this install tweeterless... I think some eq on the top end, possibly where Erin is suggesting, should bring the stage up a bit higher as well. so don't give up on that concept yet... I just want the tweeters there to assist with any weird anomalies that might arise when i get all the components in place.
> 
> THanks


In my truck, I added 1/2" thick sound absorbing foam under the dash and it seemed to help some, at least with higher frequency reflections. I got a ****load left over so I'll prolly do this at some point in the Lex, but you're right I need to fix these kicks axis-wise. I'll watch to see what you end up doing.

I'm not ready to give up on the tweeterless setup yet, as I've heard systems that sound great without, like you have.


----------



## mattyjman

^ what kind of foam did you get and where? 

do you think you are getting any resonances from the sealed kicks? that could bring the stage down a bit, if that gets out of control.


----------



## danno14

> the midbasses in my existing door pods


 Going with two HAT's in each pod vs. the 3 in each as originally designed?


----------



## mattyjman

yes, you are correct


----------



## trojan fan

Hi Matt, for my 1000th post again, just checking to see if you had any updates...LOL


----------



## mattyjman

lost some due to your OT posts? guess you haven't contributed as much as you thought haha! 

no updates yet, other than selling the SI subs... going to go with Morel Subs I think... other than that, no. keep posted though...


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> lost some due to your OT posts? guess you haven't contributed as much as you thought haha!
> 
> no updates yet, other than selling the SI subs... going to go with Morel Subs I think... other than that, no. keep posted though...



very nice sound quality subs....Hertz also makes some nice subs. I think HAT might have something available in the hear future


----------



## mattyjman

ok, slight momentary departure from audio... i have a few exterior upgrades in the work that i thought i'd share here as well...

Ok... I got the 335i back in January, promptly ordered Rims, KW v2 coilovers, H&R Sway bars, and a bunch of aesthetic stuff. Just barely got started on that today.

Let me say this first... OMG. This is so tight. The suspension feels great, turn in has greatly increased and road noise is down significantly over the stock Run Flat Tires. (nitto 555's) I'll have some more pics coming later when i get more stuff done, but wanted to share with y'all. 

Any CC is welcome  

Stock Ride:










After:





































More to come, stay posted... :happyanim:


----------



## DAT

Ok let me one of the first so say it's badass, love the look stock and custom...

Not sure I like the blackish colored wheels stock color would have been awesome..

anyways updates on the car audio install


----------



## mattyjman

here's a few more with the top down this morning!


----------



## Brian_smith06

Any tire rub? And I think it looks pretty good


----------



## mattyjman

Brian_smith06 said:


> Any tire rub? And I think it looks pretty good


ever so slight on large bumps in the rear... but nothing to worry about. 

i have a few more exterior mods coming that will round out the black/silver theme, so it'll look better as i get those going.


----------



## mattyjman

i also had time today to put on the m3 style carbon fiber spoiler... enjoy:


----------



## mattyjman

--just copied this from another post where i was asking about tweeter positioning. sail panel locations are out now...

__________________________

okay, beat the heat, sat in my sweltering car, and took a listen. i'm glad i did as I think i've come up with good locations now. good thing, as my top 2 options i liked the least -- sail panels, pillars off axis

so here is what i have... driver side tweeter aimed at opposite listener and tilted up a few degrees, a little bit more off axis than on axis to the opposite listener.

passenger side tweeter, on axis with the driver, tilted slightly up a few degrees. 

again, this just goes to show how important listening is before any install work is completed. i would have modified the sail panels and then been greeted with sub-par results. now i have a pretty good idea on how to proceed from here. 

here are some pics...


----------



## fish

I think I like the stock rims better, well maybe the color anyways. I think black rims look good on some trucks, just never been too much of a fan of them on cars. Not saying they look bad by no means. 

After testing out the tweet locations did the dash location give you better depth than the sails? What were the deciding factors that made you go with the dash?

I've been looking at those Mosconi amps on there site, pretty nice. Is there somewhere in the US that sells them, or did you order from them in Italy?


----------



## rsfaze

I like the black rims myself. How does the sub sound with the top down?


----------



## mattyjman

fish said:


> I think I like the stock rims better, well maybe the color anyways. I think black rims look good on some trucks, just never been too much of a fan of them on cars. Not saying they look bad by no means.
> 
> After testing out the tweet locations did the dash location give you better depth than the sails? What were the deciding factors that made you go with the dash?
> 
> I've been looking at those Mosconi amps on there site, pretty nice. Is there somewhere in the US that sells them, or did you order from them in Italy?


it's hard to describe the sail panels... i tried a few different angles, but ultimately, it just seemed to give off a very shallow stage, and not centered. i was using passive crossovers from a jbl 608gti set, so they were playing more than i will be using them for, but either way, it simply didn't work out well. 

the dash gave me a more focused center, with good depth and height.

there are a few people on this board that now deal gladden, makers of mosconi amps. i got these from one of them.


----------



## subwoofery

fish said:


> ...I've been looking at those Mosconi amps on there site, pretty nice. Is there somewhere in the US that sells them, or did you order from them in Italy?


Contact Orca for Mosconi, Focal and Audio-System. 

Kelvin


----------



## alachua

What method did you use to dial in the tweeter position? Did you start with both playing and work alternating one side and the other?


----------



## mattyjman

alachua said:


> What method did you use to dial in the tweeter position? Did you start with both playing and work alternating one side and the other?


nothing too sophisticated... i just hooked them up to the crossovers that i had and played some songs with good depth and clear center. based on where the location of center stage was, in relation to the middle of my dash, i would tweak the speaker that was causing the issue. eventually that got me to arrive at my aforementioned locations and directions.


----------



## mattyjman

some progress... but its too damn hot out here. i woke up at 6 today, just to beat the heat but it didn't get very far. i started by taking the jehnert door panels off, as the L6SE's won't fit in there and i need to fab up some custom panels for the pair of midbasses. 

door panel with no pod:










i rubbed down the whole bottom panel with rubbing alcohol, so the painters tape would adhere...










after a few layers of chop and mat, laying in the sun to dry...










After those layers dried, (learned from Bing) i painted a layer of milkshake on the base mold to help keep the rigidity so the mold won't flex when i pull fleece over it to make the top mold...











after both sides cured, it was like an arm wrestling match to get these molds off, they fit like a glove though... here they are before trimming



















so that's all i was able to get done before the stinking heat got too hott...


----------



## fish

Sucks the L6SE's wouldn't fit from the get-go. One plus with that desert heat is I'm sure your molds dry a helluva lot quicker.


----------



## mattyjman

ok guys... quick question if you wouldn't mind indulging me... 

In looking at how i'm going to be building these midbass pods... i have the ability to build a sealed enclosure and could probably get about .65 cu ft of internal space... 

I'll be building up the base mold with a trim ring for the dual midbasses, but the recess from the original door pod can be sealed and i can effectively find myself running these sealed. 

after plotting these in winisd, it looks like i'll get a better response from them sealed as opposed to ib, not to mention eliminating the rattle problem that comes with door pod installs. 

what do you guys think?

edit: i'll post up plots in a jiffy


----------



## mattyjman

here is the pdf for the L6SE's...

http://hybrid-audio.com/Legatia L6SE.pdf

Sealed in .65 cubes (pair)









Cone Excursion









IB (well... i don't know how to simulate it other than creating a giant effing box... so 9 cubes)









Cone Excursion


----------



## trojan fan

It's nice to see you're back at it...

I live in Vegas, I know what you're going through....stay cool


----------



## fish

I've always wanted to go sealed, & if I could do it all over again i would. 

I'm not sure if it would make any difference, but I recall a few people saying when they model a speaker in the door IB they use something like 2-4cf of airspace (depending on the door size) since it's not actually IB, but more like a "leaky" enclosure.

You might contact Scott & see what he has to say about it too.


----------



## trojan fan

fish said:


> I've always wanted to go sealed, & if I could do it all over again i would.
> 
> I'm not sure if it would make any difference, but I recall a few people saying when they model a speaker in the door IB they use something like 2-4cf of airspace (depending on the door size) since it's not actually IB, but more like a "leaky" enclosure.
> 
> You might contact Scott & see what he has to say about it too.



x2....Run all this by Scott and get his opinion....


----------



## mattyjman

anyone else have any thoughts on the question above... i emailed scott, just hoping for a response now.


----------



## mattyjman

Quick update in case anyone is watching...

finished pics will be up soon 

working with a combination of 11 hour days, night school, and the god dammned effing heat, I decided to turn over this build to Jon at HandCrafted Car Audio. Many of you have seen have seen his work, and those that haven't, just do a quick search on his screen name "handcrafted". He is quite possibly the only person in AZ that I feel confident turning this over to. 

We spent the better part of 2 hours discussing every aspect of this build, and I feel supremely confident that he'll be able to capture my vision, and then some. In a way I'm kinda sad that this won't have my personal sweat and tears, but at the same time, I'm super excited that I'll have some fantastic tunes sooner rather than later.

What's even more exciting, is I'll have a completed build finally!! Stay posted for the pics, I'm dropping the car off tomorrow.


----------



## bertholomey

That's good news - he has done great things with Buzz's Benz thus far - in good hands. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress!


----------



## mattyjman

^ definitely. His work on IS Tundra's vehicles is also top notch. Sometimes things look good in pictures, but when things still look good in person, then you know someone pays attention to quality.


----------



## ISTundra

Cool, I work a few miles from Handcrafted, so I'm going to stop by one day and and eyeball the progress.


----------



## ErinH

mattyjman said:


> Quick update in case anyone is watching...
> 
> finished pics will be up soon
> 
> working with a combination of 11 hour days, night school, and the god dammned effing heat, I decided to turn over this build to Jon at HandCrafted Car Audio. Many of you have seen have seen his work, and those that haven't, just do a quick search on his screen name "handcrafted". He is quite possibly the only person in AZ that I feel confident turning this over to.
> 
> We spent the better part of 2 hours discussing every aspect of this build, and I feel supremely confident that he'll be able to capture my vision, and then some. In a way I'm kinda sad that this won't have my personal sweat and tears, but at the same time, I'm super excited that I'll have some fantastic tunes sooner rather than later.
> 
> What's even more exciting, is I'll have a completed build finally!! Stay posted for the pics, I'm dropping the car off tomorrow.


as much as I love DIY, sometimes this is just the better option. I've told my wife that when we get her new car I'm taking it to one of the local guys here and just telling him what I want and leaving it with him. 

The only part that really sucks is paying for it because, for a good install, it costs good money. Catch 22.


----------



## mattyjman

bikinpunk said:


> as much as I love DIY, sometimes this is just the better option.


you can still diy... just before the actual build.  i suppose that's where most of the diy mindset comes from anyway... measuring and testing, then building. and if you did the first two right, and hand over the build to someone competent, then in my eyes you've done everything diy. just not the build. 

definitely a catch 22 on the cost of labor, but i imagine if i totaled up the amount of money and time i've spent on the stuff before, i think it would far exceed the cost of custom labor at a good shop. time is money, and i have better things to do than fiberglass a bunch of **** together.


----------



## ErinH

I understand. I meant, as much as I like to build my own car, it's still aggravating as hell sometimes. 


Trust me, dude, if I had the funds to pay the local dude to do what I wanted I would. No question. It'd be cleaner at the least. I settle for half-ass because that's what I can afford.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Matt,

I had a very similar question with my midbass drivers in my doors and damn near everyone said to run them IB not sealed. I'm guessing like you I just don't see the reasoning why not if you have the room. I haven't yet finalized the door pods in my install. I was thinking I would build some quick cheap 1/4" sealed boxes to just see what they would do. Most thought that I would have a greater freq range IB over the sealed pods...... The plus side for me is I have two different brand same size drivers that use the exact same hole pattern so I get to pick and choose.

So, I'm watching in wait to see what you turn up with yours


----------



## mattyjman

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Matt,
> 
> I had a very similar question with my midbass drivers in my doors and damn near everyone said to run them IB not sealed. I'm guessing like you I just don't see the reasoning why not if you have the room. I haven't yet finalized the door pods in my install. I was thinking I would build some quick cheap 1/4" sealed boxes to just see what they would do. Most thought that I would have a greater freq range IB over the sealed pods...... The plus side for me is I have two different brand same size drivers that use the exact same hole pattern so I get to pick and choose.
> 
> So, I'm watching in wait to see what you turn up with yours


funny you mention that. we'll actually start with sealed, and if we can't get it to sound good, it'll be really easy to open them up into the doors. one immediate advantage to going sealed outside of frequency response is having less door rattles. we'll see how it plays out and then go from there.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

mattyjman said:


> one immediate advantage to going sealed outside of frequency response is having less door rattles. we'll see how it plays out and then go from there.


VERY good point! I didn't really consider that mostly because I spent a few hours 
knocking around, shaking, and general hitting the door in search for rattles. I wrapped 
the locking rods and such in a thin piece of cloth. I don't think I'll end up with that issue.

BUT, your doors are much much more complicated than mine. So, I could see that being 
a factor. I'm really looking forward mostly in your impressions on how it sounds. Regardless, 
so far it looks REALLY good!

Cheers,
Scott


----------



## Scott Buwalda

Sealed enclosures add an appreciable amount of coloration. Speaker diaphragms are weak sound barriers at best, and even with a "larger" enclosure such as that, you'd anticipate some of the backwave pressure being manifested forward of the cone. In my humble opinion, sealed enclosures either need to be infinitely small or infinitely large, and since infinetely small is clearly out of the question, roll with the infinitely big option. Thus the recommendation for infinite baffle, ensuring front and backwaves are completely sealed and isolated from each other. You can certainly try a sealed enclosure - power handling will increase, but the flip-side is that you'll likely be hearing not only the speaker, but also the sealed box.


----------



## DAT

Scott Buwalda said:


> Sealed enclosures add an appreciable amount of coloration. Speaker diaphragms are weak sound barriers at best, and even with a "larger" enclosure such as that, you'd anticipate some of the backwave pressure being manifested forward of the cone. In my humble opinion, sealed enclosures either need to be infinitely small or infinitely large, and since infinetely small is clearly out of the question, roll with the infinitely big option. Thus the recommendation for infinite baffle, ensuring front and backwaves are completely sealed and isolated from each other. You can certainly try a sealed enclosure - power handling will increase, but the flip-side is that you'll likely be hearing not only the speaker, but also the sealed box.



Scott is correct, great post !


----------



## cgw

mattyjman said:


> ok, i'll play.
> 
> okay... so after popping the vibe amps in, i got massive amounts of noise. couple that with finicky gain pots and low volume, i wasn't really impressed at all. pulled them out and sold them, put my factory amp back in and have been listening to rear speakers for a couple months now
> 
> a few weeks ago we had a meet at one of the local shops, and i was able to audition Bob Morrow's Tacoma. He was running HAT L4SE (no tweets), some 5" midbasses, and *the new HAT 6.5" subs*. WOW. Talk about a well set up system. The staging was impecable, and the tonality and overall experience was just about all I have been looking for. The subs didn't exactly have the low end i prefer but it wasn't bad. What was impressive was the dynamics of these L4SE's.... wow. wow. wow.
> 
> one of the struggles i have been having is that I have always felt that a horn setup somewhat compromises clarity and detail for in your face dynamics. however, the reverse of that is true as well, conventional speakers have great clarity and detail, but lessor dynamics. this tradeoff has been bothering me for some time, because i sit right in the middle of the two. i want both equally as much.
> 
> well, consider me sold on the HAT's. I had a decent set up in my FJ with the L8, L3, L1v2 separates before I put in horns, and really was quite impressed with them. Sitting with Bob gave me a chance to reevaluate my tastes and interests, and when all is said and done, clarity and imaging edges out extreme dynamics (i had mikey1782's truck to compare against -- horns, 2119's, 12" midbass, 2 15 gti's -- what an experience.).
> 
> So, enter part two of my BMW build.
> 
> Stock Head Unit - outputs digital MOST signal -->
> MoBridge DA1000 - converts MOST to an optical digital signal -->
> H701/C701 or BitOne - signal processing -->
> Mosconi AS 200.4 Amps (3) -->
> HAT L1 Pro R2 Tweeter
> HAT L4SE Midrange
> (2 Pair) HAT L6SE Midbasses
> (2) SI BM MKIII Subs
> 
> This should round my system, but I am still procuring the equipment. Everything should stay the same.
> 
> Locations should remain the same, with the tweeters going in the sail panels of the door, mid in the kicks, and the midbasses in my existing door pods.
> 
> This should be interesting, so stay tuned.


Awesome setup on the bimmer, but what did you think about the HAT 6,5" subs, I´m not a basshead but I like tight, fast bass kicks like kickdrums for example, do you think 2 of them will work for my taste?(small car like a Polo or New Fiesta size).
PS: Thinking about using CLarus C6 midbass & L1R2 tweets and 2 I6SW subs, running off a Mosconi or a ARC SE amp or a Focal KRX2 setup with same amps.(what do you think about these setups, because to listen to any SQ equipmente I´d have to travel about 300miles & am recovering from surgery)?

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## bertholomey

If I may butt in here for a moment.... a friend of mine installed 4 Tang Band 6.5" subs in his STI, and they were fantastic - of course, not for deep bass extension, but for extremely fast, tight, and hard hitting kickdrum and bass guitar sound. 

If that is the sound you desire and the type of music you primarily listen to, I think 2 of the HAT's would be perfect in a small hatch.


----------



## cgw

Thanks Bertholomey, thats exactly the type of bass I like.

The only thing is that I´m not used to using ported boxes, I´ve only used sealed, will they give me that same kind of bass I like in the ported boxes(recomended by HAT).?


----------



## bertholomey

Sorry for the quick Thread Jack - just thought I would pop these in real quick - any further 'discussion', and we will take it to pm 

Ported box










Sealed 'box'



slade1274 said:


> An area aft of the bulkhead was cut out for display of the amplifiers.
> It was all covered in a light gray ultra-suede with a CF cloth accent. I went for a lighter gray than the seats for no real good reason other than I liked the contrast of the lighter color to the equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The jury is still out on the CF trim as it seems a tad "out of place" even though I like it.....
> 
> It will all be covered by a carpeted false floor with an inset grill to let the subs and amps breathe; so it won't be seen unless removed for viewing.


----------



## Arthurk

WOW, awesome


----------



## trojan fan

bertholomey said:


> If I may butt in here for a moment.... a friend of mine installed 4 Tang Band 6.5" subs in his STI, and they were fantastic - of course, not for deep bass extension, but for extremely fast, tight, and hard hitting kickdrum and bass guitar sound.
> 
> If that is the sound you desire and the type of music you primarily listen to, I think 2 of the HAT's would be perfect in a small hatch.



It's a sedan. not a hatchback


----------



## mattyjman

process is being made... looks like we'll have pretty much everything wrapped up by end of next week (fingers crossed)... Jon is great at what he does and is making some good headway so far...

for now, just wanted to throw out a teaser to hold you guys over...check this out:


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> process is being made... looks like we'll have pretty much everything wrapped up by end of next week (fingers crossed)... Jon is great at what he does and is making some good headway so far...
> 
> for now, just wanted to throw out a teaser to hold you guys over...check this out:



Holy ****, you hit the mother load....

Let me know when you're ready to sell them:laugh:


----------



## mattyjman

^ start saving... i'll be ready in a few months for sure ... lol

i'm planning on really liking this set up, so don't get your hopes up.


----------



## trojan fan

Good luck with everything going forward....I hope you reach car audio utopia


----------



## mattyjman

^ yep, me too. I wonder what i'll do if i don't. but to be honest, i can't see this system not turning out top notch (in my book), as we have taken great care to ensure that locations are optimum, and the equipment is high quality. 

the only current are of concern for me is midbass. while i have never heard the L6SE before, I have heard that they aren't that strong in the midbass arena across, say a scan w18. that's what i have a pair, and 200 watts going to each, so hopefully i won't have that problem. 

i am having Jon build a plate that will allow me to try different midbass drivers as well, starting with the x65 from ID. I have a bunch of those, and it should be real easy to drop them in and a/b them and see the difference. 

either way, i have high hopes for the equipment and locations we've decided on.


----------



## trojan fan

mattyjman said:


> ^ yep, me too. I wonder what i'll do if i don't. but to be honest, i can't see this system not turning out top notch (in my book), as we have taken great care to ensure that locations are optimum, and the equipment is high quality.
> 
> the only current are of concern for me is midbass. while i have never heard the L6SE before, I have heard that they aren't that strong in the midbass arena across, say a scan w18. that's what i have a pair, and 200 watts going to each, so hopefully i won't have that problem.
> 
> i am having Jon build a plate that will allow me to try different midbass drivers as well, starting with the x65 from ID. I have a bunch of those, and it should be real easy to drop them in and a/b them and see the difference.
> 
> either way, i have high hopes for the equipment and locations we've decided on.


How about some HAT 8" drivers in the doors?


Post some pics as soon as you can and also how long is the build going to take....thanks


----------



## mattyjman

Some time next week... and trust me, im much more anxious for the pictures than you are, so ill post em as soon as its done.

And 8s would rock the house, but definitely wont fit the doors.


----------



## eviling

mattyjman said:


> Some time next week... and trust me, im much more anxious for the pictures than you are, so ill post em as soon as its done.
> 
> And 8s would rock the house, but definitely wont fit the doors.


trust me, those L6's will run so deep and so clean you won't miss a thing. I don't even run SE L6's but i run mine pure mid bass in 3 way, 68-430 and they rock. I only run em that high because my mid's are a bit wimpy, but I'm working up twords some L4se's or L3se's not sure if i wanna go kick's or A pillar. I could drop L3's right into the pods i have now with out a problem.

those amps are really nice too, ive heard 3 cars with them my self, and they are just incredible. i heard them with a set of focal no.6's and they were ****ing amazing, just the loudest, cleanest thing i ever heard in my life.


----------



## mattyjman

okay, it's time to wrap this up.. well almost. i got the car back today, and it looks great. I am going to have Jon build a trim panel to surround the amps, but outside of that, it looks like all that's left is some tuning. 

the nice thing is the image is centered already, with very little work to solidify it. In the next couple of days we should have this thing singing beautifully. 

So, here are some finished pics... I know that Jon is going to post a build log when he has some time, to show the progress pics, but I wanted to get this up here to close it out. 

To say I'm impressed is an understatement. Jon does some top quality work, and it shows. I wouldn't hesitate to bring another project to him. 

On to the pics... (please excuse the blurry shots... my wife dropped the camera and now it's all funky)

here is a shot without the top up, so you can see the whole front stage:









with the top down, this is what you see in the trunk:









right side:









left side:









the door pods barely stick out, and they look like they belong:









the subs through the skipass:









with lights out and led's on:









close up of the pod:









DRC and Usb for the software and controlling presets and sub volume:









with the top up and barrier lifted, you see the three amps and the sub box... this is where the trim panel will be, to tie it all in


----------



## mattyjman

and a quick shot of the processing side of the system:


----------



## fish

Looks great Matt! I hope you're finally happy with this one. 

Couple questions:

1) Did you end up going sealed or IB with the L6SE's? If sealed, how much volume did you get out of the door? Is the midbass response better or worse than you expected?

2) I remember originally you wanted to keep a decent amount of trunk space available. Not so much now.  How large is the box for the Morel's?


----------



## mattyjman

the l6se's are IB into the door. the midbass response isn't really that bad and with some more tuning it should sound great.

no trunk space here... i came to grips that there just wasn't a way to do that, so i said **** it, and let's load this sucker up. the morels are in .55 cube each


----------



## fish

mattyjman said:


> the l6se's are IB into the door. the midbass response isn't really that bad and with some more tuning it should sound great.
> 
> no trunk space here... i came to grips that there just wasn't a way to do that, so i said **** it, and let's load this sucker up. the morels are in .55 cube each



Where do you have the Morel's & L6SE's crossed at? 

Hell yeah you said **** it! And in a big way... those amps are just badass.


----------



## mattyjman

fish said:


> Where do you have the Morel's & L6SE's crossed at?
> 
> Hell yeah you said **** it! And in a big way... those amps are just badass.


let's see, i have the L1's at 8k and up, 24db slope, L4se's 175 - 8k 24db slope and reverse phase, L6se's 70 - 175 12db slope (this will probably change), and morels are 70 on down, 24db slope...

i tweaked a little on the eq around 2-3k, just to drop it a bit, dropped a bit around 8k, and in the midbass area i dropped a bit around 175, and up a bit around 90. 

This is without an RTA and no real good experience in tuning but for two hours it sounds pretty darn good. Just for ****s and giggles, I also turned off the tweets, and ran the L4se's all the way up... and it sounded great too! The tweeters definitely help though, adding just a bit of sparkle up to the top end. 

Next thing I have to do is program a preset for when I have the top down...


----------



## DAT

Looking good, so how do you like the Morel SC 10's?

I'm using the Morel Ultimo's and love them...


----------



## mattyjman

^ they sound really good right now, very subtle, but not in a bad way. They definitely need to break in, but they will be a solid addition to this system. I love the carbon fiber cones too .... ooohhhh ahhhh  

they can each get about 950 watts so I don't think that any subbass will be lacking


----------



## fish

mattyjman said:


> let's see, i have the L1's at 8k and up, 24db slope, L4se's 175 - 8k 24db slope and reverse phase, L6se's 70 - 175 12db slope (this will probably change), and morels are 70 on down, 24db slope...
> 
> i tweaked a little on the eq around 2-3k, just to drop it a bit, dropped a bit around 8k, and in the midbass area i dropped a bit around 175, and up a bit around 90.
> 
> This is without an RTA and no real good experience in tuning but for two hours it sounds pretty darn good. Just for ****s and giggles, I also turned off the tweets, and ran the L4se's all the way up... and it sounded great too! The tweeters definitely help though, adding just a bit of sparkle up to the top end.
> 
> Next thing I have to do is program a preset for when I have the top down...


Thanks for sharing. 

Man, those L4's really look like they belong down there. That guy did a damn good job! This really makes me want to try something in the kicks with a 4" or 5" mid. Do you notice a change in output/tonality when you move your legs into different positions?

Sorry if I'm bothering you with all these questions, hopefully you don't mind. You do seem pretty excited about your new system.


----------



## mattyjman

fish said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Man, those L4's really look like they belong down there. That guy did a damn good job! This really makes me want to try something in the kicks with a 4" or 5" mid. Do you notice a change in output/tonality when you move your legs into different positions?
> 
> Sorry if I'm bothering you with all these questions, hopefully you don't mind. You do seem pretty excited about your new system.


never bother me with questions again, got it?  jk, i don't mind answering any questions at all ...

i do notice an ever slight change when i put my leg just to the right of where the dead pedal used to be, but it's pretty much negligible. 



i did do some driving today, just to listen to tunes and sit in awe of the wonderful sound that I now have. I will say this: This is THE BEST system I have ever installed in a car. This even beats out the HLCD install I did in the FJ Cruiser a while back. While that one had more "impact" this one is a totally different beast as far as dynamics. i know that i'll be able to get this one to stage much easier as well. 

(subjective comments) The HAT/Mosconi/Morel combo was a surefire win in my situation. I can't believe my ears. Unfortunately in my shoes, I don't know if it was the HAT's or the Mosconi amps, or both, that has given me the great tonality and response I have now. I do know that these are the nicest amps I have used, and the headroom from a 200watt per channel output is damn right incredible. Let's just say that while listening to Sultans of Swing, or Hotel California, etc, that I have heard these songs in a totally different light. Crisp and clear, and super dynamic with tons of impact where you'd least expect it, is how I would classify this setup. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this combo to someone else, if they had the budget. The team at Hybrid puts out a great product, and the Mosconi's are truly something special, outside of being downright dead sexy. 

well, enough drooling for now, but to say I am pleased is an understatement. 

and yes, I feel pretty satisfied with the L6se's and the midbass they provide. 

i think i've finally found a car and an audio system worth keeping (sorry trojanfan  ) 

Now, let's see what we can do to the wifes car


----------



## mikey7182

I guess you pulled the trigger and had Jon finish up for you eh?  I'll have to swing by one day this week and have a listen. Glad to see the ****ing thing is finally finished.


----------



## mattyjman

you and me both man... i think you'll actually like it for what it is... it isn't 2 15's, 2 12's, 2 8's or anything like that, but it's pretty damn impressive


----------



## simplicityinsound

awesome work! i would expect anything less from Jon and yourself


----------



## chevyrider96

MTopper said:


> this will be an interesting build to see


Nice car and choice of setup


----------



## mattyjman

chevyrider96 said:


> Nice car and choice of setup


thanks, i have a few more exterior mods to go on, and i'll post them up when they are done.


----------



## mattyjman

simplicityinsound said:


> awesome work! i would expect anything less from Jon and yourself


thanks for steering me in the right direction. these amps are quiet for sure (noise), and the subs are great!


----------



## trojan fan

Congratulations....I just saw the build thread Jon posted. The installed turned out really nice and I bet it sounds even better. So, I guess you finally reached "car audio utopia". At times I didn't know what direction this build was going in, but in the end it all came together very nicely....enjoy your Bimmer


PS...I'm envious


----------



## mattyjman

remember this:?










well, i've never really been satisfied with the L6SE as a midbass driver. they just don't pack the punch i was looking for. In my quest for the ever elusive upfront bass and gobbs of midbass PUNCH, i decided to spend a day working with the canvas that Jon already started with, and decided to improve in slight areas. 

i never ruled out install as the reason for the L6SE's doing a bad job, but I think with some of the improvements that I just made I may have liked them better, but not to the degree of what I am happy with now. 

in looking at the install i looked at a few key opportunities that could make some difference.

first, the door pods were vented (open baffle) but the opening was quite small and it ran through a channel in the door. the vapor barrier BMW uses is a pretty thick closed cell foam, and this quite possibly could have been prohibiting the rear soundwaves more area to move. question in my mind -- were the mids being choked? 

in some pretty intense songs i could feel the front of the door pods reverberate a bit, sucking up some of the midbass punch i wanted, so that needed to be addressed. 

lastly, i wanted to seal up the door as good as possible, and i think what i used was time efficient, and cheap... win/win in my book. 

so let's proceed:










here is the door. you can tell a small whole i cut in the vapor shield, and if you look closely, i ran speaker gasket tape around the outline of where the door skin meats the door. when clipping the door back in place, everything seats nice and tight, creating an effective seal where no soundwaves can escape. 










with the door back on, you can barely notice that i used that gasket foam, unless you knew what you were looking for. 

next, i decided to open the door pods up a bit. 










in the back is the uncut one, the front shows how much i cut. the cut in the rear corresponds with the cut in the vapor shield to allow the rear sound waves to move a bit more freely. 

next up, a pretty heavy dose of sound deadener










both enclosures received enough deadening to provide a nice health "thud" when knocking on it. it added quite a few more pounds as well. the hope, of course, is to cut down on any resonances it was providing. 










this is what i decided to go with. i kept two pair of ID x65's from my previous door pods, but never took the time to put them in. boy, was i wrong. 

these things sound so good. the upper midrange ability of these have nothing on the L6SE's.. (i was running them up to 500hz) but the lowend that these x65's provide is incredible.

so, i have these running up to 200 hz, where the l4se's pick up the rest, and am running them down to.........
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?


25hz!! 

there is enough energy from these mids that i can run sub-less and not even know it. the best part about it, i have upfront bass and nothing to pull it away with. it's unreal. 

to move from the L6se to the x65's is like winning a small lottery. i could not be any more happy with the move.

at the end, just for giggles, i threw my subs on, running up to 50hz. at full tilt, they provide just enough of a subtle low end kick to keep things tight, and reinforces the upfront bass. 

some people say that overlapping bands are bad, but i feel like this is a strong winning combination. 

the rest of the install related changes also made a large improvement i feel. needless to say, today was an exciting day.


----------



## bertholomey

That is fantastic! I am very glad for your win. This is what keeps this hobby / obsession alive.... always wondering... what if I did 'x'.


----------



## mattyjman

^ yeah i'm glad i did it. now, i wonder how i can get more out of these ultimos?


----------



## danno14

Glad to see this post as well.... 

Matt- If you don't mind, I would like to pm you for insight of some of what you have done.
Thx


----------



## mattyjman

danno14 said:


> Glad to see this post as well....
> 
> Matt- If you don't mind, I would like to pm you for insight of some of what you have done.
> Thx


no problem... pm away!


----------



## Notloudenuf

Did you try the structural changes with the HAT drivers? I feel like it is somewhat of an unfair test if you changed the install AND the drivers at the same time.

Either way, glad you like it.


----------



## mattyjman

Notloudenuf said:


> Did you try the structural changes with the HAT drivers? I feel like it is somewhat of an unfair test if you changed the install AND the drivers at the same time.
> 
> Either way, glad you like it.


i didn't... however, and this is just my assumption, is that most of the improvement was made by swapping drivers. they are just two different animals... l6se's just aren't that good at midbass. 

i had them running down to 45 hz, and had to over lap the sub up to 80hz just to get some of that upper range punch. had i done a true a/b comparison, i'm sure i still would have been disappointed. many people have remarked on the lack of midbass from these drivers, so i'm sure i'm not the only one with these types of results, irrespective of installation issues.


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## fish

Thanks for sharing your update on your adjustments. 25hz??!! Wow! Overlap, underlap, whatever works.  I think I'm gonna tinker with my mb/sub crossovers tomorrow. 

Good to see you back on here.

P.S. Update your sig.


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## danno14

mattyjman said:


> no problem... pm away!


Hey- Did you get my long and rambling pm? D


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## mattyjman

I know it's not car audio related, but this is my build thread, and this is what I spent about 15 hours on... (yes I'm slow)...

New Front Mount Intercooler from Stett, and a OEM Msport Bumper...

Original Car :









Pic of the Intercooler Mid Install:









How the car sits today:


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## simplicityinsound

how much powah!??!


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## thehatedguy

Yawn...total gheyness.


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## mattyjman

simplicityinsound said:


> how much powah!??!


right now i'm running stage 1 cobb flash tune... I have downpipes that are being installed on thursday, and then i can reflash to a stage 2 + which should be giving me about 400 lb/ft torque at 2500 rpm, and near 350-380 hp to the wheels....

right now, it's already stupid fast... i'm not sure why i need more, but i do want


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## simplicityinsound

i know exactly waht you mean...good thing i know that i am at the limit of what my tranny can handle so i dont wanna go bigger turbo...if i had a manual car however...

i love the stance...


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## jcorkin

nice looking setup!!! id love to hear it in person


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## mattyjman

simplicityinsound said:


> i love the stance...


thanks... i hope to space out the wheels soon... just enough to bring the rims flush with the fenders... no negative camber for me... that stuff is so lame, i don't know why it's popular.


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## freespace303

Sorry for the old thread revival, but since I might be picking up a E93 soon (this Saturday most likely) I started googling around for audio installs, and stumbled across this. Man, I am simply blown away with the amount of effort you put into this install, and even then take it to a shop. 

Can you PM/email me how much the parts and labor were for the shop install? if you could drill down what everything cost each that would be even more awesome. I want to be able to just go to the shop, point them to this thread, and say "I want that"

Thanks!


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