# TM65 mkII



## Electrodynamic

As many of you who are clicking on this link are already wondering:

A) I said I was not going to continue manufacturing TM65's.
B) See A.

Yes and yes. Read literally - my employees were not going to build 6.5" woofers anymore. Doing so was too tedious and too costly.

However, my recent aliance with the build house that produces the M25 tweeters has spurred me towards a more pefected IB 6.5" woofer. The build house in question is owned and operated by a previous lead engineer of a different build house. Said build house is the top tier of their country with pricing to match that of any other high-end manufacturer (Germany, Sweeden, France, etc). 

The fantastic quality of the M25's have prompted me to continue making speakers for the DIY community despite what I said earlier of getting out of the DIY industry as a whole. The latter was said because I [me, my company, etc] was not going to assemble any more small drivers. Larger drivers of sizes at least 10" through 24" drivers are not a problem. However, the smaller drivers are an issue regarding the time it takes to build them. The new build house that manufacturers the M25's is XBL^2 certified and I trust their manufacturing abilities along with their fit and finish. 

So with the latter being said, I have designed a successor to the TM65 which will be produced by the same company that produces the M25's. 

Same goals as before but with improved performance. 2.39" deep mounting depth. Higher Qts to yield better "IB" (mounted in a vehicles door) performance. Custom tooled cast alunimum basket with integrated rain shield to keep water off of the back side of the cone. Push terminals. Lower inductance optimization with multiple shorting rings for higher frequency extension while not sacrificing low end performance. Single 2 Ohm operation as 99.9% of TM65 D4 customers wired the coils in parallel. 

I hope to keep pricing to/below $149 per driver if not lower. I will know more once the manufacturer gets back to me with production costs. 

Here are a few renderings of the driver. FWIW, the cone will have our logo raised in the poly material just like our DS4-18:

Rear picture:









Front picture without logo on the cone: 









Off-center views:


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## norurb

Fantastic! Subscribed! Too many exclamation marks?!


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## Aldaa

Omgggggggggg!!!!


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## muzikmanwi

Sounds good.


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## tRidiot

That looks awesome. I was wanting to try some of the TM65, but it looks like I'll just have to get in on the (presumptive?) pre-order on these instead!


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## brumledb

Those are sexy.


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## seafish

Wow…value for a used TM65v1 just DROPPED. LOL

In any case, I am hoping that even though this new woofer will be a little deeper then the v1, that it might still utilize the same cut out diameter and maybe even screw pattern as the v1 just so those of us who have the v1 and want to upgrade can do so with minimum install changes. 

Of course if keeping those parameters the same are going to effect the SQ design of the v2, then please simply ignore my idea.


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## Inferno333

I may not even get the first set installed before these come out.


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## Weigel21

Damn it, I haven't even gotten around to trying out the tM65's I picked up and my M25's haven't even arrived either. Now you have me thinking of getting in on a preorder for these. Damn you.


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## thebookfreak58

Nice! I haven't got to unbox my recent TM65 purchase!!


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## crackinhedz

Nice! 

Any possibility for an 8" in the future?


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## brumledb

I know someone is going to ask so I will just go ahead and ask..

What kind of ETA are you thinking on these? Christmas presents or before?


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## nineball76

And here's 3 pairs of v1 that'll never get used.


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## Errldaily

Very exciting! Probably going to have to give these a try.


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## RRizz

Im buying.... and how about an answer on the 8's....................


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## bucky340

Thank you!

I've been saving one pair of TM65 as a back up for my install, while debating what to do about a top notch shallow mid bass for a dear friend's fox Mustang. Those require a very shallow door speaker if you aren't allowed to hack the cards and build them out substantially.

Dilemma over--my friend can now rock an almost all SI install: TM65, M25, and a Mag V3. I guess I'll have to go with 10f's for the mids, although the TM65's work very well in a two way in my install.

Good news.


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## bertholomey

Awesome Nick! Looking forward to seeing / hearing these!


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## PorkCereal

I was wondering what the success of the m25 would bring. Be interesting to see the difference between the 2 drivers. Good to see cost friendly drivers that are of higher end materials. 

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## naiku

seafish said:


> Wow…value for a used TM65v1 just DROPPED. LOL


Perfect. Might have to start watching the classifieds.


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## frontman

Very interesting! Sub'd...


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## WhiteL02

Subd


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## kmbkk

Subd! Like others, I have a pair of TM's I haven't even tried out yet, but will probably get tin on the pre-order for these.


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## adriancp

This is really awesome! Hope this could lead to a small midrange being developed


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## Golden Ear

seafish said:


> Wow…value for a used TM65v1 just DROPPED. LOL




Yup! I bet they'll start hitting the classifieds in large amounts now. Too bad to all those people who were charging a premium for them. Hahaha


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## strohw

Golden Ear said:


> Yup! I bet they'll start hitting the classifieds in large amounts now. Too bad to all those people who were charging a premium for them. Hahaha


You could buy them BNIB for like $220 shipped which was the price he sold them for on clearance. =]

Plus 2.3" depth on the originals will work in practically any vehicle compared to the proposed 2.9" depth on these ones.


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## sicride

Also expressing sincere interest in an 8" with less than 2.9" mtg depth... I prefer really low QTS and low Fs but I imagine I'll be the minority on that one... (Factory sealed door enclosures of Mustangs)


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## Electrodynamic

strohw said:


> You could buy them BNIB for like $220 shipped which was the price he sold them for on clearance. =]
> 
> Plus 2.3" depth on the originals will work in practically any vehicle compared to the proposed 2.9" depth on these ones.


Whoops, I didn't hit the "3" last night when I posted the mounting depth information. The driver will be 2.39" deep, not 2.9" deep. I edited the original post as well to reflect the actual mounting depth.


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## seafish

Electrodynamic said:


> Whoops, I didn't hit the "3" last night when I posted the mounting depth information. The driver will be 2.39" deep, not 2.9" deep. I edited the original post as well to reflect the actual mounting depth.


MUCH better!!!


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## Electrodynamic

seafish said:


> Wow…value for a used TM65v1 just DROPPED. LOL
> 
> In any case, I am hoping that even though this new woofer will be a little deeper then the v1, that it might still utilize the same cut out diameter and maybe even screw pattern as the v1 just so those of us who have the v1 and want to upgrade can do so with minimum install changes.
> 
> Of course if keeping those parameters the same are going to effect the SQ design of the v2, then please simply ignore my idea.


Cutout and screw pattern are the same on both models.


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## seafish

Electrodynamic said:


> Cutout and screw pattern are the same on both models.


Perfect…thanks for the update.


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## tRidiot

Daaaaaayum. That's awesome.


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## Alrojoca

V2 does not sound good, sounds more like revised, corrected, improved or ...... Something similar. But I guess it seems like the newer one it's always an improvement over the old one? 


if it's a totally different speaker with a rain shield, marginal improved specs and a single 2 ohm coil, should it be called the same way? My opinion is no, it does not help the new one or the old one to sell better, it just affects both using the same name, it's just my opinion. 

If still sticking to the same name, point 2, .2 will look and sound way better than V2 but still it should have a new name being different.

And being more expensive, I doubt the old design will drop in value that much, the ones that got more than 3 pairs may sell a few to get the new ones, the new ones will cost more, still leaving decent room for the old ones to move under that price range.


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## Electrodynamic

Alrojoca said:


> V2 does not sound good, *sounds more like revised, corrected, improved or ...... Something similar*. But I guess it seems like the newer one it's always an improvement over the old one?
> 
> 
> if it's a totally different speaker with a rain shield, marginal improved specs and a single 2 ohm coil, should it be called the same way? My opinion is no, it does not help the new one or the old one to sell better, it just affects both using the same name, it's just my opinion.
> 
> If still sticking to the same name, point 2, .2 will look and sound way better than V2 but still it should have a new name being different.
> 
> And being more expensive, I doubt the old design will drop in value that much, the ones that got more than 3 pairs may sell a few to get the new ones, the new ones will cost more, still leaving decent room for the old ones to move under that price range.


Correct. It is revised, corrected, and improved. It is the same size cutout speaker, nearly exact mounting depth, but improved performance. Hence the "v2".


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## norurb

My "old" pair will see duty in home made hi-fi bookshelf speakers. But not until the v2 comes out.


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## seafish

Alrojoca said:


> V2 does not sound good, sounds more like revised, corrected, improved or ...... Something similar. But I guess it seems like the newer one it's always an improvement over the old one?


"v.#" designations are very common to the car audio industry…just sayin'


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## piyush7243

Very nice Nick. Eagerly waiting for these.

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## Alrojoca

Interesting 

Is there a law or patent preventing the model name change? I guess V2 is the same as 0.2? Just a different way of saying the same thing? 

I see manufacturers changing the names left and right using the exact same design, just changing colors or some materials.

Extra Costs on paperwork, and licenses maybe? larger manufacturers can afford to pay additional costs associated with a model or name change or have more resources to do it.


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## DeTech

I would be in for a set of these and would love to see a shallow 8 inch with your same build quality.


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## Electrodynamic

Alrojoca said:


> Interesting
> 
> Is there a law or patent preventing the model name change? I guess V2 is the same as 0.2? Just a different way of saying the same thing?
> 
> I see manufacturers changing the names left and right using the exact same design, just changing colors or some materials.
> 
> Extra Costs on paperwork, and licenses maybe? larger manufacturers can afford to pay additional costs associated with a model or name change or have more resources to do it.


I can change the name completely if I want. The new driver is a step forward from the original TM65 and it embodies many of its attributes and design goals. And when you change the name completely you lose familiarity with the product name and start over completely from a marketing standpoint. The new driver will be called the TM65 v2...but on that note I have called my other product variants mkII, mkIV, etc. Maybe the new TM65 will be called the TM65 mkII instead of v2. :surprised:


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## Electrodynamic

While I've got some people's attention I do have a question:

How imperative is a specific mounting depth? I ask because I can make this new TM65 designn 2.29" deep instead of 2.39" deep prior to the prototype being produced and also for actual production. Reducing the backplate thickness has its advantages and disadvantages but my question remains the same: Will a mounting depth of 2.39" be solid or will a mounting depth of 2.29" fit a LOT more vehicles?


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## Inferno333

I personally don't think a tenth of an inch will make it that much easier for numerous vehicles.

I know Subarus are low on depth, but anything under 2.5" should work.


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## AStephan

Electrodynamic said:


> While I've got some people's attention I do have a question:
> 
> How imperative is a specific mounting depth? I ask because I can make this new TM65 designn 2.29" deep instead of 2.39" deep prior to the prototype being produced and also for actual production. Reducing the backplate thickness has its advantages and disadvantages but my question remains the same: Will a mounting depth of 2.39" be solid or will a mounting depth of 2.29" fit a LOT more vehicles?


Not a big difference to me, you can usually use a thicker spacer to accommodate different depth speakers.


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## Alrojoca

I guess keeping it a shallow design, regardless of a 1/8" deeper or not, I agree that the name should be the same, being the same size cone similar power handling etc, even with more changes. It's in the same family we can say.

What do the TM stand for I'm curious?


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## nineball76

Oh it's single 2 ohm? Never mind then, I'll stick to the v1.


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## Jscoyne2

nineball76 said:


> Oh it's single 2 ohm? Never mind then, I'll stick to the v1.


What makes you want 4 ohms


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## crackinhedz

I kinda like v2 in the name rather than mkII. 

looking firward to buying a pair of these one day.


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## WhiteL02

Nick I would vote for making the depth which ever leads to better performance. Both are shallow enough to fit anywhere. 10mm xmax that will play from 40-3000 would be amazing! If you build it, they will sell!!


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## frontman

WhiteL02 said:


> Nick I would vote for making the depth which ever leads to better performance. Both are shallow enough to fit anywhere. 10mm xmax that will play from 40-3000 would be amazing! If you build it, they will sell!!


This! ^^^


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## norurb

Nick, is there a way to have a grill set made for this driver? Would love to surface mount these in my car. Show them off you know.


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## Jscoyne2

Yea serious. Want midrange

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## adriancp

3"-3 1/2" point source??? Would be pretty dang cool. Just sayin.....


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## nineball76

Jscoyne2 said:


> What makes you want 4 ohms


Because I run bridged amps, can't run at 2 ohms.


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## Duncanbullet

nineball76 said:


> And here's 3 pairs of v1 that'll never get used.


I'll take them off your hands...


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## ErinH

Alright, everyone. The "voicing my concerns" aspect has been covered pretty well. 

The opposing sides have had ample time to provide their feedback one way or the other concerning Nick. I think it's time to let people make up their own minds and we get this thread back on track. Any further discussion on how Nick runs his business needs to be handled in a separate thread from here on.


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## ca90ss

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/274362-stereo-integrity-discussion.html


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## unix_usr

sicride said:


> Also expressing sincere interest in an 8" with less than 2.9" mtg depth... I prefer really low QTS and low Fs but I imagine I'll be the minority on that one... (Factory sealed door enclosures of Mustangs)




Check out the Shelby audio upgrades - I had them in my 2006 GT replacing the stock 8" they came purpose built with hardware and were drastically better. Iirc they were a modified kicker driver re-branded and sold by Shelby USA


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## Lanson

This looks like a cool driver. I had a bad experience with the v1, but honestly I really like other Stereo Integrity stuff like the Mag so I'd probably pony up for the v2 and see how it goes. IMO, I think the depth isn't that big a deal up to a point, and if you can get better midrange performance (so, 2-way is easier for instance) with a slightly deeper woofer, then I'd say that's worth it all the way. 

I really like your decision to go push-terminal, and I hope that solves the biggest issue I had with mine which was broken terms. Heavy card-stock materials doesn't do a good job holding terminals in a door mount location, I've learned.

I'd also really like to see an 8" driver or a 6x9 driver (holy ****, yes do a 6x9 midbass!!!) with SI technology.


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## Jroo

nineball76 said:


> Because I run bridged amps, can't run at 2 ohms.


same boat, the 2 ohms didn't work for me either.


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## captainobvious

Good luck with this one Nick, I'm sure it will do quite well.

I'm on the hunt for a driver that can do what the TM65 can, but in an 8" size for more cone area, lower FS, etc as a dedicated MB and still use a *small enclosure* like the TM65. Please consider building one...As popular as the tweeters and the TM65 have been, I'm betting the 8" would sell out very easily as well.


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## Babs

captainobvious said:


> Good luck with this one Nick, I'm sure it will do quite well.
> 
> I'm on the hunt for a driver that can do what the TM65 can, but in an 8" size for more cone area, lower FS, etc as a dedicated MB and still use a *small enclosure* like the TM65. Please consider building one...As popular as the tweeters and the TM65 have been, I'm betting the 8" would sell out very easily as well.



An 8" or even an oversize 7" would make me have to hunt down a good nibbler to do permanent damage to my door metal I think.


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## Jon225

WhiteL02 said:


> Nick I would vote for making the depth which ever leads to better performance. Both are shallow enough to fit anywhere. 10mm xmax that will play from 40-3000 would be amazing! If you build it, they will sell!!





frontman said:


> This! ^^^


This again. Lol.


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## Electrodynamic

fourthmeal said:


> This looks like a cool driver. I had a bad experience with the v1, but honestly I really like other Stereo Integrity stuff like the Mag so I'd probably pony up for the v2 and see how it goes. IMO, I think the depth isn't that big a deal up to a point, and if you can get better midrange performance (so, 2-way is easier for instance) with a slightly deeper woofer, then I'd say that's worth it all the way.
> 
> *I really like your decision to go push-terminal, and I hope that solves the biggest issue I had with mine which was broken terms. Heavy card-stock materials doesn't do a good job holding terminals in a door mount location, I've learned.*
> 
> I'd also really like to see an 8" driver or a 6x9 driver (holy ****, yes do a 6x9 midbass!!!) with SI technology.


Oh yes. Termageddon. I remember too, haha. Yes, small push terminals on these guys. This custom tooled aluminum basket will have the dedicated spot for small push terminals. Issue solved. 

And yes this revised and improved version will play considerably higher than the previous driver. Not only does the coil have less layers (4 layers instead of 6 layers) but it will also utilize multiple shorting rings instead of a single shorting ring. Nothing definite yet because I don't like anticipating high frequency extension based on models but the new driver may be able to play up to / past 5,000 Hz.


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## Electrodynamic

Jroo said:


> same boat, the 2 ohms didn't work for me either.


Just spitballing but what if I split the difference and made the driver have a DCR of 2.5 Ohms which would make it a 3 Ohm nominal load. Unless you literally played 1 Hz or 2 Hz through the driver the impedance would be 3 Ohms to your amplifier. 

The driver is early enough in development that I can easily change the DCR while keeping everything else in check. 

Oh, someone asked about T/S's. While I won't supply T/S's until I get the prototype measured by Klippel I will say that I am shooting for a Qts of .70 on this driver. The FEM numbers show a slightly lower Qts in the 0.6 range but I have found that Qts is always a little bit higher than anticipated so when it's all said and done the Qts should measure right in the 0.7 area.


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## Alrojoca

Wow! A car version of almost satori upper range! How heavy will these be? Same as the old ones, more, or less?


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## Electrodynamic

Alrojoca said:


> Wow! A car version of almost satori upper range! How heavy will these be? Same as the old ones, more, or less?


About half the weight of its predecessor. Roughly 2.6 lbs.


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## mechatron

Any plans of an 8" midbass driver with a shallow XBL magnet in the future Nick?


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## Electrodynamic

Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?


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## brumledb

Seems to me a 6x9 would make more sense. A lot of newer model vehicles come with a stock 6x9 so it would basically be a drop in replacement, no modifications required, and ~cone area as an 8". 
If both models seem interesting to you, maybe a poll for 6x9 vs 8"?


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## nineball76

Electrodynamic said:


> Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?


Yes! Yes! Yes!


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## mechatron

Electrodynamic said:


> Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?



I would love an 8" Midbass but most of them are way too deep for a standard door. I'd love to hear if others are interested as well?


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## mechatron

I'm actually rocking the TM65s in my car now, but I would love an 8" driver that could play the lower frequencies more easily with more authority


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## nineball76

Electrodynamic said:


> Just spitballing but what if I split the difference and made the driver have a DCR of 2.5 Ohms which would make it a 3 Ohm nominal load. Unless you literally played 1 Hz or 2 Hz through the driver the impedance would be 3 Ohms to your amplifier.


The dvc is what attracted me the most to the v1. But 2-3 ohm is doable, as I supposed most prefer the ability to wire a smaller amp down to get the extra power to it. I'll probably try to use some no matter what the final imp ends up being. Might actually save me from using 3-4 amps eventually. I liked the ability to get to 8 ohm for a home build, but I have enough v1 to do that.


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## Onyx1136

Electrodynamic said:


> Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?


They say they do, until they find out what they cost. And after you sell 20-30 sets, you're left sitting on the rest of the production run until you decide to blow them out on the forum at your cost. And you can fill in the rest of that story from your own memory. 

Everyone is vocal about wanting something until it's made available to them. Just ask Victor how many guys from this forum are beating down his door for his high end, no crossover, no bass boost amplifiers that they all say they wish someone would make; that he already does. 

Save your money. Keep your product offerings to the standard sized stuff that you know people will buy and that you know you can make a reasonable profit on.


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## Ericm1205

My charger had the kicker 6x9 in the doors. If I could get a 8" like everyone wants or a 6x9 I would do some work to get them in and dump my focals in a heartbeat!

I'm in the same boat in not wanting the 2 ohm. My helix 6 ch amp says don't put 2 ohms on the first two channels. Only 4 ohm


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## Rob4607

8-9" shallow mount For the win! 2 7/8" depth max, I and many other tundra drivers would ecstatic.


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## norurb

Electrodynamic said:


> About half the weight of its predecessor. Roughly 2.6 lbs.


Are you ditching the neo magnet? That could save a lot on the cost of the finished product would it not?


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## nineball76

Same boat here, 6x9 in the doors of my Ram, and a 6.5 just won't cut it as low as they sit. I was going to get the Dyn mw172 but if there's another option, I'm listening.


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## dgage

Electrodynamic said:


> Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?


Yes. I'd swap out my planned Illusion C8s for a set of TM80.


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## Electrodynamic

norurb said:


> Are you ditching the neo magnet? That could save a lot on the cost of the finished product would it not?


No. The neo magnet stays. Ferrite would double the weight.


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## captainobvious

Electrodynamic said:


> Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?


YES 

Keep it's qts/VAS manageable for small sealed enclosure and you'll have my dollars. Being able to do small sealed kick enclosures is what I'm after. There is almost nothing out there that is a great fit for that. A shallow-ish 8" that can provide good midbass output in a small sealed enclosure.


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## captainobvious

Onyx1136 said:


> They say they do, until they find out what they cost. And after you sell 20-30 sets, you're left sitting on the rest of the production run until you decide to blow them out on the forum at your cost. And you can fill in the rest of that story from your own memory.
> 
> Everyone is vocal about wanting something until it's made available to them. Just ask Victor how many guys from this forum are beating down his door for his high end, no crossover, no bass boost amplifiers that they all say they wish someone would make; that he already does.
> 
> Save your money. Keep your product offerings to the standard sized stuff that you know people will buy and that you know you can make a reasonable profit on.



You mean like the TM65's and tweeters...both of which people asked for and both of which have sold out production? :surprised:

Many have been asking for an 8" midbass for some time. Most 8" woofers are deep and tough to integrate into doors and kicks. If the new driver was versatile and could work well in a door or in a manageable sealed enclosure size, yet in a more shallow mounting depth design- it would be killer.


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## Theslaking

I'm in for a shallow 8" as well. And with a lot of new car systems, a lot of Bose, have mounting rings that allow enough space for a shallow 8 to be relatively easily integrated. I could fit a shallow 8 in two of my 3 daily drivers 6.5 space with little modification.


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## kmbkk

I'd like a shallow 8" as well.


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## Onyx1136

captainobvious said:


> You mean like the TM65's and tweeters...both of which people asked for and both of which have sold out production? :surprised:
> 
> Many have been asking for an 8" midbass for some time. Most 8" woofers are deep and tough to integrate into doors and kicks. If the new driver was versatile and could work well in a door or in a manageable sealed enclosure size, yet in a more shallow mounting depth design- it would be killer.


I seem to remember him ending production on the TM65 at one point due to not being able to sell them until he dropped the price to the point where he was almost losing money on them. Seems like the same thing happened with the Mag and the BM mkIV. 

Just because one small production run of a standard size mid and tweeter sold well doesn't correlate to success with a more niche product like an 8" midbass. It would seem things have gone wrong more often than right for him when selling niche drivers on this site. I would hate to see the guy make the same mistake again. But, Nick is a smart guy. I'm sure he'll make the best decision for his business.


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## dgage

Onyx1136 said:


> I seem to remember him ending production on the TM65 at one point due to not being able to sell them until he dropped the price to the point where he was almost losing money on them. Seems like the same thing happened with the Mag and the BM mkIV.
> 
> Just because one small production run of a standard size mid and tweeter sold well doesn't correlate to success with a more niche product like an 8" midbass. It would seem things have gone wrong more often than right for him when selling niche drivers on this site. I would hate to see the guy make the same mistake again. But, Nick is a smart guy. I'm sure he'll make the best decision for his business.


The main difference now is Nick's confidence in the driver build house he is working with. Previously Nick's team assembled the drivers and that is what took so much time and likely wasn't profitable. With a quality build house, Nick now can focus on the design and let the build house deliver a quality driver fully-assembled based on his design.

So with all of that free time Nick, let's get on with the 8" midbass already...and a 3" midrange.  SI 3-way for the win!!!! Could be a 4-way if Nick gets back into making car audio subs.


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## sicride

I think a poll would help gauge true interest if he can come up with realistic t/s spec estimates and prices for those parameters. I also think it could be wise to start a go fund me account for this type of product development.

Let's be honest, his products sell well especially for his customer service reputation. He is relying on niche market forums to sell his products. He is not branching out much to other outlets for advertising or retailing his products. He is also probably less patient than larger companies can afford to be and not willing to sit on product to sell at a reasonable profit. None of this is our business nor is it our problem.

The answer is a resounding YES! 8" drivers appear to be more and more common in production vehicles. I think it would be wise to make a good small sealed and possibly a good IB 8" option. I don't think the small sealed design should be shooting for much lower than 40-50hz realistic output. Even that will be a challenge, focusing more on low distortion and sensitivity would make more sense to me. Almost more like a shallow pro driver 8" with a little lower extension.

I obviously hope Nick can make this product. I hope he can make it for a good profit. I hope he can find a way to protect himself from taking as much risk when developing a product. I think if he can do these things it will relieve some of the stress and frustration of being a small business owner like himself and make it easier for him to provide better customer service. It's hard to want to take care of your customers when you don't feel like your customers are taking care of and or appreciating you.


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## Lanson

A plug-and-play shallow-ish 6x9 would overtake the ID XS69, which was a wonderful driver but alas, a little too deep for most vehicles so you either had to mod the doors, or step down to a weaker 6x9 coaxial and just disable the tweeter (meh). 

But down to it, most Chrysler vehicles are 6x9, most Toyota pickups and SUV's are 6x9, Nissan Titan is, most import vehicles use them in the rear as well as most imports (espcially old-school cars, but new ones too), you'd have smashing midbass/ somewhat-subwoofer drivers for people's trunks (especially with a high Q like you wanted), and all these compatible doors would work and you'd be able to fit them, as long as they cleared the depth issue most of those doors have.


I know 6x9 is not round but that has its advantages in some ways. I think people realize that they have different properties with cone ringing and distortion, to the point where there's some distinct advantages, and potentially less beaming if the speaker happens to be aligned correctly in the door to begin with.

I know my Durango, my friend's Tundra, and my other friend's rear trunk of his Monte could all benefit.


----------



## jamesjones

fourthmeal said:


> A plug-and-play shallow-ish 6x9 would overtake the ID XS69, which was a wonderful driver but alas, a little too deep for most vehicles so you either had to mod the doors, or step down to a weaker 6x9 coaxial and just disable the tweeter (meh).
> 
> But down to it, most Chrysler vehicles are 6x9, most Toyota pickups and SUV's are 6x9, Nissan Titan is, most import vehicles use them in the rear as well as most imports (espcially old-school cars, but new ones too), you'd have smashing midbass/ somewhat-subwoofer drivers for people's trunks (especially with a high Q like you wanted), and all these compatible doors would work and you'd be able to fit them, as long as they cleared the depth issue most of those doors have.
> 
> 
> I know 6x9 is not round but that has its advantages in some ways. I think people realize that they have different properties with cone ringing and distortion, to the point where there's some distinct advantages, and potentially less beaming if the speaker happens to be aligned correctly in the door to begin with.
> 
> I know my Durango, my friend's Tundra, and my other friend's rear trunk of his Monte could all benefit.


This. I just purchased a set of X69s for my Dodge. Would love to give a SI 6x9 a shot.


----------



## SQram

I'm in for a neo 8".

I drive a a dodge with 6 x 9 openings, it'll be a cold day in hell before I bought oval speakers though...


----------



## onebadmonte

I'm in for a shallow neo 8


----------



## Victor_inox

why not to ask for 10"? I`d love to have me some 10s.


----------



## brumledb

fourthmeal said:


> But down to it, most Chrysler vehicles are 6x9, most Toyota pickups and SUV's are 6x9, Nissan Titan is, most import vehicles use them in the rear as well as most imports (espcially old-school cars, but new ones too), you'd have smashing midbass/ somewhat-subwoofer drivers for people's trunks (especially with a high Q like you wanted), and all these compatible doors would work and you'd be able to fit them, as long as they cleared the depth issue most of those doors have.
> 
> 
> I know 6x9 is not round but that has its advantages in some ways. I think people realize that they have different properties with cone ringing and distortion, to the point where there's some distinct advantages, and potentially less beaming if the speaker happens to be aligned correctly in the door to begin with.


Several of the newer GM models have 6x9's in the front doors as well. My 2014 Sierra does, as do the Silverados, and Tahoes. I am sure other models also have 6x9's.


----------



## Viggen

I am interested in a 8, depending on price and eta.... There is a pretty large Miata market that looks to upgrade speakers from blowse or non blowse systems to something better. Clearwater has a option but not sure they are still made for Miata's.


----------



## captainobvious

The shallow 8 would also be a nice solution for the underseat midbass market for the likes of the various BMW models.


----------



## Inferno333

I would definitely sell my new TM65 set if these are coming out.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Seeing as how a new surround needed to be tooled to allow for proper stroke I decided to tool up an "S" surround instead of a half-roll surround. Initially the overall width of the surround was kept and the "S" shape was calculated and drawn up. See picture 1:










It was modified yesterday to this:










Decreasing the width of the "S" surround allowed for an increased surface area for the cone body. The first drawing had a cone width of 103mm and the new drawing has the cone width at 115mm so it now has a touch more surface area which means a touch higher sensitivity due to slightly more cone area. 

Also the "S" surround is very linear. The new drawing has the surround being linear up to 15mm one-way and the driver will hard-bottom at 14mm. You may also notice the clearance between the lower surround roll and spider landing shows 13.8mm but as the surround moves further away from rest position the two surround rolls will flatten out so the total combination of surround shape and distance to the spider landing should be nearing their limits at the same time. 

The "S" surround on the BM mkV prototype demonstrated just how much excursion this surround geometry can really handle. I did the math for the BM mkV prototype based on the mkIV's surround width and came up with a very high number (over 30mm) and thought that there was no way it would be that linear and moved forward with the tooling. Upon receiving the driver and getting the diaphragm to hit the top of the spider I noticed that the surround kept its composure completely showing zero signs of stress which confirmed the original math of surround linearity. 

I did not want to make the surround on the new TM65 mkII (v2 - I haven't ultimately decided on which to call it yet) too wide and sacrifice sensitivity. I would rather have the surround do its job and keep the numbers in check while adding surface area to the cone due to the slightly larger cone since the surround could be made with a larger ID.


----------



## seafish

OMG…you are going to make me have to buy four of these to install in place of the XS69 woofers I am using in my truck.


----------



## WhiteL02

Could this be the ultimate 6.5??? Man this sounds great!


----------



## Bminus

Definitely in for a pare of these. Only problem I would have is if they turn out to be 3Ohms. Im running my TM 65s at 2ohms so Id lose a little power going to the new ones.


----------



## captainobvious

Bminus said:


> Definitely in for a pare of these. Only problem I would have is if they turn out to be 3Ohms. Im running my TM 65s at 2ohms so Id lose a little power going to the new ones.


Nah. The increase in cone area/sensitivity would likely nullify that.


----------



## Bminus

captainobvious said:


> Nah. The increase in cone area/sensitivity would likely nullify that.


Good point


----------



## Alrojoca

Maybe another thread should be started about a poll for 3", 8" and 10" driver requests, or other SI size drivers, to avoid getting off the topic. This thread is about a 6.5 two ohm driver and major changes like impedance or dual coils, will benefit a few and may affect more existing or potential new buyers.

Clearly the market calls for a better 6.5" driver more than a 3" or an 8". And if the new one plays up to at least 3000 HZ or higher, there is no need for a 3" or an 8" driver. 

I think instead of making just a 3 or an 8, both should be made at the same time to fill the gap, and that is a serious market potential failure based on the market demand. 

Many will not agree, but clearly it's very hard to place a 3" speaker on the dash or pillars and if the 6.5" will play better, why go with an 8" and spend more on power, deadening and chase even more rattles?


----------



## SQram

Alrojoca said:


> Maybe another thread should be started about a poll for 3", 8" and 10" driver requests, or other SI size drivers, to avoid getting off the topic. This thread is about a 6.5 two ohm driver and major changes like impedance or dual coils, will benefit a few and may affect more existing or potential new buyers.
> 
> Clearly the market calls for a better 6.5" driver more than a 3" or an 8". And if the new one plays up to at least 3000 HZ or higher, there is no need for a 3" or an 8" driver.
> 
> I think instead of making just a 3 or an 8, both should be made at the same time to fill the gap, and that is a serious market potential failure based on the market demand.
> 
> Many will not agree, but clearly it's very hard to place a 3" speaker on the dash or pillars and if the 6.5" will play better, why go with an 8" and spend more on power, deadening and chase even more rattles?


You're are wayy off point on this one.

Why an 8? Higher sensitivity, better dynamics, potentially lower frequency response, potentially better power handling if the coil is adjusted just to name a few? 

The desire for a 3" driver is pretty obvious, a lot of people don't like the source of midrange frequencies to be the lower door, a smaller driver opens unique possiblities.

Of course this would be a huge capital investment for the speaker manufacturer, it's up to him to gauge interest and decide if it's worth his effort. No argument there.


----------



## Lanson

SQram said:


> I'm in for a neo 8".
> 
> I drive a a dodge with 6 x 9 openings, it'll be a cold day in hell before I bought oval speakers though...


Oval speakers (when made right) have too many advantages and too many disadvantages to not consider them, IMO. I'm talking SQ advantages. Andy W. opened my eyes on that one day in the forum discussion about such things.


----------



## ChrisB

Electrodynamic said:


> While I've got some people's attention I do have a question:
> 
> How imperative is a specific mounting depth? I ask because I can make this new TM65 designn 2.29" deep instead of 2.39" deep prior to the prototype being produced and also for actual production. Reducing the backplate thickness has its advantages and disadvantages but my question remains the same: Will a mounting depth of 2.39" be solid or will a mounting depth of 2.29" fit a LOT more vehicles?


I'm good with 2.5" or less.


----------



## Jscoyne2

fourthmeal said:


> Oval speakers (when made right) have too many advantages and too many disadvantages to not consider them, IMO. I'm talking SQ advantages. Andy W. opened my eyes on that one day in the forum discussion about such things.


Go on...

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## Alrojoca

SQram said:


> You're are wayy off point on this one.
> 
> Why an 8? Higher sensitivity, better dynamics, potentially lower frequency response, potentially better power handling if the coil is adjusted just to name a few?
> 
> The desire for a 3" driver is pretty obvious, a lot of people don't like the source of midrange frequencies to be the lower door, a smaller driver opens unique possiblities.
> 
> Of course this would be a huge capital investment for the speaker manufacturer, it's up to him to gauge interest and decide if it's worth his effort. No argument there.



Well, first I don't think any is needed if a good 6.5" can play good bass and above 3khz, unless a competition stage is needed.

A 3 way front set up, tends to be better with an 8" than a 6" if the 3 can play good down to 300hz, and the 8" up to 300hz, how is that bad? 

Unless most 8"'s can only play good up to 100-200hz then I would agree, a 3" would be lost filling up the gap, and maybe a 3.5" or 4" may be better

Maybe the gap is easier to fill up with a 6" if a 3" is made for it, but I guess it all depends on the specs of each driver.


Still off topic! I doubt I will post anything about, 10"'s 9"'s, 8"'s or any size that's not a 6.5" 

I'm sure many will be happy if Nick changes his mind about canceling this 6.5" and make a 3" or an 8" instead. And that's not gonna happen.


----------



## Jscoyne2

Alrojoca said:


> Well, first I don't think any is needed if a good 6.5" can play good bass and above 3khz, unless a competition stage is needed.
> 
> A 3 way front set up, tends to be better with an 8" than a 6" if the 3 can play good down to 300hz, and the 8" up to 300hz, how is that bad?
> 
> Unless most 8"'s can only play good up to 100-200hz then I would agree, a 3" would be lost filling up the gap, and maybe a 3.5" or 4" may be better
> 
> Maybe the gap is easier to fill up with a 6" if a 3" is made for it, but I guess it all depends on the specs of each driver.
> 
> 
> Still off topic! I doubt I will post anything about, 10"'s 9"'s, 8"'s or any size that's not a 6.5"
> 
> I'm sure many will be happy if Nick changes his mind about canceling this 6.5" and make a 3" or an 8" instead. It's not gonna happen.


Maybe its best to ask Nick how many orders of a 3 or 8 he would require to make even a single production run worth it. Then do a poll on here and see if the numbers equal up.


----------



## SQram

fourthmeal said:


> Oval speakers (when made right) have too many advantages and too many disadvantages to not consider them, IMO. I'm talking SQ advantages. Andy W. opened my eyes on that one day in the forum discussion about such things.


I completely agree with you (and Andy). I just hate oval speakers astheticaly. Personal preference...


----------



## 1fishman

fourthmeal said:


> Oval speakers (when made right) have too many advantages and too many disadvantages to not consider them, IMO. I'm talking SQ advantages. Andy W. opened my eyes on that one day in the forum discussion about such things.


I've not seen that topic covered before. Any links


----------



## Lanson

1fishman said:


> I've not seen that topic covered before. Any links


This one went off the rails a bit, but there's been others over time, and not just on this forum. But general thing is, a cone speaker isn't really at an advantage over an oval, provided they are both properly engineered. I trust Nick could probably engineer one.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-speakers-cant-sound-good-round-speakers.html

edit: and
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...cussion/100538-circular-vs-oval-speakers.html
Eric clearly knows his stuff too, not just Andy.


----------



## Electrodynamic

I think this thread has gotten as far off topic as possible. Let me lay down a few things:

This is not a thread about what size driver I should or should not come out with. This thread is titled TM65v2 and this thread is about the new version of my 6.5" woofer. 

I think that says it all. 

PS: The final 6.5" driver will be labeled a 4 Ohm nominal load. DCR will be between 3.2 and 3.6 Ohms but it will be a single 4 Ohm woofer. 

PPS: Going off of the drawings I am increasing the OD of the diaphragm more and increasing the ID of the surround to closely match that of the original TM65 but equipped with the "S" surround. Doing the latter will raise the sensitivity from 86 dB to right at 88 or 89 dB. Again the "S" surround is extremely capable of throw when designed properly so I making the surround smaller and the cone even larger than the drawings above.


----------



## ChrisB

Electrodynamic said:


> I think this thread has gotten as far off topic as possible. Let me lay down a few things:
> 
> This is not a thread about what size driver I should or should not come out with. This thread is titled TM65v2 and this thread is about the new version of my 6.5" woofer.
> 
> I think that says it all.
> 
> PS: The final 6.5" driver will be labeled a 4 Ohm nominal load. DCR will be between 3.2 and 3.6 Ohms but it will be a single 4 Ohm woofer.
> 
> PPS: Going off of the drawings I am increasing the OD of the diaphragm more and increasing the ID of the surround to closely match that of the original TM65 but equipped with the "S" surround. Doing the latter will raise the sensitivity from 86 dB to right at 88 or 89 dB. Again the "S" surround is extremely capable of throw when designed properly so I making the surround smaller and the cone even larger than the drawings above.


As long as these will work with Audi, VW, or Subaru, I'd be willing to give them a try! It's tough finding decent shallow mount speakers that can actually take a good bit of power AND sound good. Believe me, I've tried a good bit of them. The ones that can't handle the power usually sound better whereas the ones that can handle the power have frequency response holes all over their useful reproduction range.


----------



## Jscoyne2

ChrisB said:


> As long as these will work with Audi, VW, or Subaru, I'd be willing to give them a try! It's tough finding decent shallow mount speakers that can actually take a good bit of power AND sound good. Believe me, I've tried a good bit of them. The ones that can't handle the power, usually sound better whereas the ones that can handle the power have frequency response holes all over their useful reproduction range.


I own a pair of tm65s and I can say this. They play ungodly clean however they dont have the level of detail you would get from high price 6.5s. I think they truly work best as a 6.5midbass in a dedicated 3 way.


----------



## mechatron

*TM65 v2*



Jscoyne2 said:


> I own a pair of tm65s and I can say this. They play ungodly clean however they dont have the level of detail you would get from high price 6.5s. I think they truly work best as a 6.5midbass in a dedicated 3 way.




That's exactly their purpose in my setup..dedicated Midbass...and they pump hard too...crossed at 63Hz


----------



## Jscoyne2

mechatron said:


> That's exactly their purpose in my setup..dedicated Midbass...and they pump hard too...crossed at 63Hz


Will be soon for me as well. I need to glass some a pillars. Scared to death to do that. First time and all.


----------



## SQram

Electrodynamic said:


> I think this thread has gotten as far off topic as possible. Let me lay down a few things:
> 
> This is not a thread about what size driver I should or should not come out with. This thread is titled TM65v2 and this thread is about the new version of my 6.5" woofer.
> 
> I think that says it all.


Lol...Nobody to blame but yourself...



Electrodynamic said:


> Do that many people really want a shallow 8" midbass?


----------



## Electrodynamic

SQram said:


> Lol...Nobody to blame but yourself...


Ha, true. :laugh:


----------



## mechatron

Electrodynamic said:


> Ha, true. :laugh:



Sorry Nick, I actually started this hide


----------



## Bminus

Electrodynamic said:


> PS: The final 6.5" driver will be labeled a 4 Ohm nominal load. DCR will be between 3.2 and 3.6 Ohms but it will be a single 4 Ohm woofer.


Looks like I may need to find a 4th amp so I can run these bridged LOL


----------



## Alrojoca

Bminus said:


> Looks like I may need to find a 4th amp so I can run these bridged LOL



Looks like maybe you should keep your eyes open for a V1 for sale, instead of spending more cash on a dedicated amp, or loose 2 channels if you need one amp bridged. :juggle: hopefully the V2 won't need more than 120W to play well.


----------



## Bminus

I already have the V1 lol. at 4 ohms the V2 would only have 90W on em.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Final drawing for the new TM65 mkII. I can not edit the post title of this thread but it will be called the mkII, not v2. The cone diameter has increased to 1mm more than the original TM65 while also keeping the "S" surround. Even though the surround width is decreasing the "S" provides more than ample cone travel capability as you must use both rolls (the positive roll length and also the negative roll length) when calculating possible cone travel. Previously when I stated the surround was good for 15mm I was only using "R3" which was only the positive roll of the "S" surround. 

I should also note that I will be using air injected polypropylene for the cone material. I want the cone material to be black in color but I'm not certain at this point if color can be added when air is added to the mixture. Air injection acts a little bit like honeycomb material adding stiffness to the diaphragm vs. straight polyproylene. 

I just sent over the funds for the toolings so this driver is definitely a go!

Here is the final 2D technical drawing:


----------



## Victor_inox

Standing by for preorder.


----------



## Guest

Me as well....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

I'm in for TWO pairs whenever preorder opens.


----------



## edouble101

I am really impressed with your design standards. Not too many builders are like yourself. Actually, only one that I know of is Jacob Fuller. It is great to products designed 100% for car audio.


----------



## WhiteL02

Man this is looking very promising. I'll be in for preorder when see the outcome and specs. Can't wait


----------



## Majik

fourthmeal said:


> A plug-and-play shallow-ish 6x9 would overtake the ID XS69, which was a wonderful driver but alas, a little too deep for most vehicles so you either had to mod the doors, or step down to a weaker 6x9 coaxial and just disable the tweeter (meh).


I'd love to see an XBL^2 6x9 driver! I sell a ton of the XS69, and its the best sounding 6x9 I've ever listened to, but there isn't much competition for them. ID recently stopped offering the X69 standalone mids (comp sets are still in production) and I think there is a good market for a new 6x9.


----------



## norurb

A tm65 inside of a 6x9 adapter and your problem is solved.


----------



## nineball76

So your mkiv will be getting mkii's and mkv? Cool! 

So final design ended up being single 4ohm?


----------



## brumledb

norurb said:


> A tm65 inside of a 6x9 adapter and your problem is solved.




That's like saying put the tm65 in an 8 inch adapter so it will be like an 8".


----------



## norurb

brumledb said:


> That's like saying put the tm65 in an 8 inch adapter so it will be like an 8".


No, you're going too far with that point. A tm65 is not 8".


----------



## rton20s

norurb said:


> No, you're going too far with that point. A tm65 is not 8".


Just like it isn't a 6x9. It is all about cone area. A 6.5" may be around 145 cm^2, whereas an 8" might be around 245 and a 6x9 around 235. And obviously those vary by manufacturer, but clearly there is a cone area advantage to both the 8 and 6x9. Implying that an 8 is "too far" a comparison and that a 6x9 is not is ridiculous. The 8 and 6x9 are closer in cone area to each other than either of them are to a 6.5.


----------



## Electrodynamic

nineball76 said:


> So your mkiv will be getting mkii's and mkv? Cool!
> 
> So final design ended up being single 4ohm?


Yes. Nominal impedance will be 4 Ohm with a DCR between 3.2 to 3.6 Ohms.


----------



## Electrodynamic

On the note of inductance roll off up top and how I did not want to mention an exact figure let me show you a few specs of the last TM65 and the new TM65 mkII:

In FEM the previous TM65 showed an inductive rolloff of 1161 Hz and that is with no shorting ring as my FEM software does not have that option. Tested performance of the original TM65 with one shorting ring extended to 2,500 Hz on-axis. 

The revised TM65 mkII shows an inductive rolloff of 2294 Hz with no shorting rings. While the new design utilizes two shorting rings instead of one the second shorting ring is to help linearize inductance over stroke so the reduction of inductance is mainly performed by the shorting ring located next to the voice coil between the two multiple gaps of the XBL^2 motor. So having said the latter if the newer driver is able to play an octave higher than FEM shows [original TM65 HF extension was one octave higher than FEM predicted] the new TM65 mkII might be able to play up to 5,000 Hz. But even if the shorting rings in the new TM65 mkII allow the driver to play an additional 1k Hz higher we are still looking at 3,500 Hz on the top end.


----------



## Victor_inox

Sounds wonderful! So questions are 
1.when
2. how much?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> Sounds wonderful! So questions are
> 1.when
> 2. how much?


1. Hopefully pre-order will open very soon. Right now the sample basket is being CNC machined so the build house can produce one working sample because the basket tooling takes the most time to complete. 

2. I want to keep this driver at/below $150 ultimately. This driver is advanced in every way compared to the original TM65 but I understimated how much time it would take to produce the original TM65's on my own rather than have a capable build house produce them [the main word there is *capable* as I was not aware of a capable build house at the time of the original TM65]. That all mated up to higher cost on my end so I am prepared for a certain cost for these drivers completely assembled. But we will see - if these little gems come out $190 each my cost I think the project, and my investment, will be scrapped. However, if they come out to a cost that I can deal with while selling them for at/under $150 the driver has a huge green light for production.


----------



## Inferno333

That second part makes me a little uneasy about selling my TM65 set.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Inferno333 said:


> That second part makes me a little uneasy about selling my TM65 set.


I would wait until I announce the pricing before deciding anything. I'm going to amortize the cost of the toolings across multiple production runs so it will make the cost of the drivers lower compared to taking on the cost of tooling onto the first production run.


----------



## soundquality4me

Electrodynamic said:


> I would wait until I announce the pricing before deciding anything. I'm going to amortize the cost of the toolings across multiple production runs so it will make the cost of the drivers lower compared to taking on the cost of tooling onto the first production run.


Can really use an eta whenever you get a chance even if its a rough estimate. I need to get some new speakers and not sure if I should wait or not. Again just whenever you can offer anything not trying to be pushy. Also are these going to be geared more towards mid-bass or mid-range or best of both worlds? I'm trying to keep my system as a 2-way.


----------



## Lanson

soundquality4me said:


> Can really use an eta whenever you get a chance even if its a rough estimate. I need to get some new speakers and not sure if I should wait or not. Again just whenever you can offer anything not trying to be pushy. Also are these going to be geared more towards mid-bass or mid-range or best of both worlds? I'm trying to keep my system as a 2-way.


Not to speak for Nick but according to his previous posts/technical info, he's shooting for a 2-way capable setup here. He's proposing his new design will be capable of playing a bit higher than the previous TM65, which will make it a bit easier to find a tweeter that is compatible. Going by the specs, it will also be more appropriate for door IB use due to a higher Qts, excellent Xmax, excellent frame, updated/upgraded terminal connections, etc. Pretty much the ideal 2-way woofer, again going by the specs.


----------



## Electrodynamic

soundquality4me said:


> Can really use an eta whenever you get a chance even if its a rough estimate. I need to get some new speakers and not sure if I should wait or not. Again just whenever you can offer anything not trying to be pushy. Also are these going to be geared more towards mid-bass or mid-range or best of both worlds? I'm trying to keep my system as a 2-way.





fourthmeal said:


> Not to speak for Nick but according to his previous posts/technical info, he's shooting for a 2-way capable setup here. He's proposing his new design will be capable of playing a bit higher than the previous TM65, which will make it a bit easier to find a tweeter that is compatible. Going by the specs, it will also be more appropriate for door IB use due to a higher Qts, excellent Xmax, excellent frame, updated/upgraded terminal connections, etc. Pretty much the ideal 2-way woofer, again going by the specs.


I'll announce an ETA after the toolings are finished and the final (hopefully the first) prototype is built. 

Yes this new TM65 mkII will play higher than its predecessor and be better suited for IB (in a car door) installations. More bottom end than the previous TM65 due to the higher Qts.


----------



## soundquality4me

Electrodynamic said:


> I'll announce an ETA after the toolings are finished and the final (hopefully the first) prototype is built.
> 
> Yes this new TM65 mkII will play higher than its predecessor and be better suited for IB (in a car door) installations. More bottom end than the previous TM65 due to the higher Qts.


Than this is the exact speaker that I am looking for, thank you fourthmeal!

Hopefully it won't be toooo long these spr's have got to go


----------



## Electrodynamic

Thankfully keeping tabs on production has its benefits. I inquired about the ETA of the parts and was informed that the cone manufacturer was having difficulty raising my logo on the cone material due to the small size of the raised logo coupled with how many letters are in my logo. I advised to leave the cone without a logo and the cone manufacturer will move forward quickly. I will have more information shortly.


----------



## nineball76

Thank goodness. Pure black is sexy and stealthy. Don't like being able to see white things behind the grills bouncing. It's distracting.


----------



## wheelieking71

Another vote for no logo on the cone!
Boston Acoustics lost me as a fan of their pro-series subs when they ruined the appearance by molding the logo in. UGLY!

Plain black cone FTW


----------



## tRidiot

wheelieking71 said:


> Plain black cone FTW


^^^^This


----------



## Electrodynamic

You need to look at both the front and the rear of the cone to see the "S" shape of the surround but today we received pictures of the cone and spider:

The linear single coil spider next to a front picture of the poly cone without logo mated to the "S" surround:









Rear:


----------



## Gomer Pilot

Love it. Next project needs to be a 3 so I can run complete SI system.


----------



## Kriszilla

Looks fantastic! I second the 3" driver!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Kriszilla said:


> Looks fantastic!


Thanks. 




Kriszilla said:


> I second the 3" driver!


Not going to happen. Lets try to keep the TM65 mkII thread on topic and about the TM65 mkII. You guys can start another thread about a 3" but it is not going to happen. Sorry guys.


----------



## Majik

Electrodynamic said:


> Not going to happen.


How about a 6x9?


----------



## Victor_inox

Majik said:


> How about a 6x9?


So he can sell whole dozen of them?


----------



## soundquality4me

You guys love going off topic lol. 

Love seeing the progress, every day I get to see an update feels like I'm one day closer to getting rid of my sprs, and in turn enjoying my music once again. 
Keep the progress pictures/updates coming!!


----------



## Lanson

Victor_inox said:


> So he can sell whole dozen of them?


I think you are grossly mis-judging the amount of vehicles that have this size speaker as stock equipment. And then misjudging how many of us would dare take away cone area. 

But that's up to Nick to decide what he's going to do. I can guarantee it would be a ****load more than a dozen, if the design worked.


----------



## Victor_inox

Start a poll,let's estimate demand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## jamesjones

fourthmeal said:


> I think you are grossly mis-judging the amount of vehicles that have this size speaker as stock equipment. And then misjudging how many of us would dare take away cone area.
> 
> But that's up to Nick to decide what he's going to do. I can guarantee it would be a ****load more than a dozen, if the design worked.


This. I'd buy 6x9 TM type driver in a heartbeat for my Dodge.


----------



## Lanson

Better start another thread fellas.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Can we agree that this is a thread about the TM65 mkII? I think we can agree as the title of this thread is labeled "TM65 mkII". 

I have asked once and if the same off-topic posts keep getting posted in here I will ask the mods to delete all of the posts as they are extremely off topic. Again lets please keep this thread about the TM65 mkII.

How about this (again): Make a new thread about a driver you wish to see me come out with. Take a poll. Then after a certain size driver is decided on (6x9, 4x8, 3", 4", 5.25", 8", etc) decide on what performance goals you want from that one speaker. After that, start a "go fund me" and raise enough money to support a 50% payment for 200 pcs of said driver. 

Until the latter happens please keep this thread on topic. 

Have a good weekend guys.


----------



## Lanson

I can respect that, not a problem Nick,

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/282506-other-si-speaker-sizes.html

In this poll (which serves as a gauge), you can vote for any/all sizes, so we can see if there's interest or not.




Electrodynamic said:


> Can we agree that this is a thread about the TM65 mkII? I think we can agree as the title of this thread is labeled "TM65 mkII".
> 
> I have asked once and if the same off-topic posts keep getting posted in here I will ask the mods to delete all of the posts as they are extremely off topic. Again lets please keep this thread about the TM65 mkII.
> 
> How about this (again): Make a new thread about a driver you wish to see me come out with. Take a poll. Then after a certain size driver is decided on (6x9, 4x8, 3", 4", 5.25", 8", etc) decide on what performance goals you want from that one speaker. After that, start a "go fund me" and raise enough money to support a 50% payment for 200 pcs of said driver.
> 
> Until the latter happens please keep this thread on topic.
> 
> Have a good weekend guys.


----------



## chevbowtie22

I missed out on the originals but I won't with these. Looking forward to pre-order time.


----------



## tRidiot

fourthmeal said:


> I can respect that, not a problem Nick,
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/282506-other-si-speaker-sizes.html
> 
> In this poll (which serves as a gauge), you can vote for any/all sizes, so we can see if there's interest or not.


I had to come back here and read how this poll got started. Frankly, I was a bit put off by Nick asking for the community to fund his commercial endeavors, but I see now that really wasn't the case. With all of the criticism Nick has had on this site for some things, I have been pretty much unwilling to jump on that bandwagon, knowing how life can throw you curveballs. However, when I saw the thread suggesting that we as a community voluntarily finance an established and successful speaker manufacturer's next lineup, I felt myself sliding over to the side of the naysayers.

I am glad I came and read the latest posts here, as Nick has specifically said no, he is not interested, but threw some of you guys (not being snarky here) a bone and said, essentially, "I am not interested, but if you guys want to do all the legwork, get the financing and build the interest, I'll design it for you." I get that.

To keep it on-topic here, as Nick has requested, I am getting more and more interested in this speaker. I will almost assuredly be in for a pair, and I might just be in for 3 pairs - still wanting to do new doorpanels for my Tahoe, and if I go to that extreme, I'll be putting dual midbasses in each door. So, I'm still waiting to hear when this is going to happen, so I can budget for it. I just hope it is going to be an ongoing production so we don't end up with this secondary market of people actually trying to make a profit over retail that we have seen with the mkIV and the TM65. Nick obviously makes products that people like and sells them at a price point people find low enough they think they can push the market once production is finished. I, for one, won't pay above what Nick will charge, there is always another good speaker line out there.

Good luck, Nick, and I am looking forward to these being released.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> I had to come back here and read how this poll got started. Frankly, I was a bit put off by Nick asking for the community to fund his commercial endeavors, but I see now that really wasn't the case. With all of the criticism Nick has had on this site for some things, I have been pretty much unwilling to jump on that bandwagon, knowing how life can throw you curveballs. However, when I saw the thread suggesting that we as a community voluntarily finance an established and successful speaker manufacturer's next lineup, I felt myself sliding over to the side of the naysayers.
> 
> I am glad I came and read the latest posts here, as Nick has specifically said no, he is not interested, but threw some of you guys (not being snarky here) a bone and said, essentially, "I am not interested, but if you guys want to do all the legwork, get the financing and build the interest, I'll design it for you." I get that.
> 
> To keep it on-topic here, as Nick has requested, I am getting more and more interested in this speaker. I will almost assuredly be in for a pair, and I might just be in for 3 pairs - still wanting to do new doorpanels for my Tahoe, and if I go to that extreme, I'll be putting dual midbasses in each door. So, I'm still waiting to hear when this is going to happen, so I can budget for it. I just hope it is going to be an ongoing production so we don't end up with this secondary market of people actually trying to make a profit over retail that we have seen with the mkIV and the TM65. Nick obviously makes products that people like and sells them at a price point people find low enough they think they can push the market once production is finished. I, for one, won't pay above what Nick will charge, there is always another good speaker line out there.
> 
> Good luck, Nick, and I am looking forward to these being released.


While getting massively off topic while staying on topic (if there is such a thing) I am not interested in making a smaller driver other than a 6.5 (other than the M25 of course), hence my offer for DIYMA to put their money where their mouth is. So far there are approximately 15 people interested in smaller/different drivers which is what I anticipated. I am not going to stick my neck out for an entire production run of smaller/different size drivers other than what I see/know will sell if/only if/someone else is willing to front the captial it requires to produce said speaker. 

I know the sales figures of the TM65. I anticipate what the sales figures will be from the improved TM65 mkII. I am willing to put forth the investment to produce the TM65 mkII. 

But again if these off-topic posts continue I will have a mod clean it up.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Production basket pictures. Note the actual color of the basket may end up being a very very deep blue where it almost looks black. I am inquiring into the Pantone colors now to see how much (if any) extra the color may end up being. Anyway, here are pictures:

Front:









Rear: 









Rear offset:









And lastly the front with the cone and surround:


----------



## Victor_inox

So far looks fantastic!


----------



## Babs

Sexy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Onyx1136

Hard to tell from the pics, are these baskets being cast or machined?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Onyx1136 said:


> Hard to tell from the pics, are these baskets being cast or machined?


Cast aluminum.


----------



## Lanson

That's pretty awesome right there.


----------



## Lanson

Wow I just realized, these may pass for pretty damn nice 6.5" subwoofers for folks in need of one.


----------



## 1fishman

Love the look. Glad theirs no logo or any writing to be seen. 


The rubber surround and the screw hole are very close to each other just like with the first TM65. I wasn't comfortable using screws without washers because if the screw contacted the rubber surround it would pull on it... With the TM65 V2 do you recommend any particular kind of washer to use so not to damage the surround.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

1fishman said:


> Love the look. Glad theirs no logo or any writing to be seen.
> 
> 
> The rubber surround and the screw hole are very close to each other just like with the first TM65. I wasn't comfortable using screws without washers because if the screw contacted the rubber surround it would pull on it... With the TM65 V2 do you recommend any particular kind of washer to use so not to damage the surround.


I used these angle head bolts and they work great. Contact area is very small but it holds as tight as a bolt/washer.


----------



## Lanson

I'll be the dickhead who admits to using wood screws (the ones like drywall screws, but a bit stronger.)


----------



## Electrodynamic

Any nylon plastic washer will do the trick - that way whatever screw you choose for your install will rotate on the washer and not the surround. I have found them at Lowes and Home Depot. I did a quick search on Google and found out that Walmart carries them online (click me for the link). And then there are proper endless selections like these (click me for the link). 

I highly suggest using plastic washers for every speaker installation where the screw or bolt that you are using may come in contact with any part of the surround no matter what the surround material. Isolation from the screw twisting on the surround is key to making sure you do not mess up your speaker.

I am going to see about having the build house put black plastic washers in with the new TM65 mkII along with proper sized black screws so sourcing the latter won't be an issue. The build house nailed it with the M25 tweeters so it won't be a problem for them to do the same thing with the TM65 mkII's.


----------



## Weigel21

That should alleviate many potential requests to repair surrounds or even potential blame upon you for a "poor mounting design" when many speakers are designed the same way and it's the consumer's responsibility to take the steps needed to prevent damage to the speaker upon installation.

So, any word on what pricing is going to be on these yet? I know you've listed a projected cost range, but was wondering if you have come to a final pricing as of yet.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Weigel21 said:


> That should alleviate many potential requests to repair surrounds or even potential blame upon you for a "poor mounting design" when many speakers are designed the same way and it's the consumer's responsibility to take the steps needed to prevent damage to the speaker upon installation.
> 
> So, any word on what pricing is going to be on these yet? I know you've listed a projected cost range, but was wondering if you have come to a final pricing as of yet.


Honestly I'm thinking about opening up pre-ordering for the same price as the previous TM65's sold for, or $99 each shipped. But that will only be for pre-order as the actual cost of the drivers will be higher by a good bit. I have a feeling the pre-order for this new revised improved version will go pretty good so I don't want to cut my throat price-wise any longer than need be.


----------



## Kazuhiro

Are these intended to mate well with the M25?


----------



## Weigel21

My understanding, YES, as they are able to effectively play higher than the original TM65, thus you can cross the tweeters higher and not push their low end limits. Granted, that's not to say the original TM65 doesn't mate well with the M25, but the new TM65 MKII should make for a better 2-way front stage than the original with the M25. 

Still, this is all based on the projected performance, we'll see how the prototype does when it's tested.


----------



## billw2

If you offer a preorder, can I suggest that you announce the date and time it will start with 24 hours notice? I seem to remember a lot of complaining the last time from people that can't check the forums every hour for updates and missed out.


----------



## Mless5

billw2 said:


> If you offer a preorder, can I suggest that you announce the date and time it will start with 24 hours notice? I seem to remember a lot of complaining the last time from people that can't check the forums every hour for updates and missed out.


Agreed!


----------



## norurb

Guaranteed somebody will be disappointed about missing the preorder.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Agreed as well. Yes I will give ample notice - at least 24 hours.


----------



## soundquality4me

Electrodynamic said:


> Agreed as well. Yes I will give ample notice - at least 24 hours.


Is this notice still far far away? Like months? Or still secret ;} 
Appreciate the updates nonetheless, ty


----------



## Electrodynamic

soundquality4me said:


> Is this notice still far far away? Like months? Or still secret ;}
> Appreciate the updates nonetheless, ty


Hopefully the prototype will be finished this coming week. If the numbers look good after testing (no changes need to be made) I will open up pre-ordering. But I will give everyone ample notice.


----------



## Electrodynamic

norurb said:


> Guaranteed somebody will be disappointed about missing the preorder.


It depends on the frequency and amount of pre-orders. I plan on making between 100 to 200 pairs of the drivers to begin with. But if pre-orders go well above those figures quickly I can always bump up production numbers to 300 or 400 pairs.


----------



## PUREAUDIO

Electrodynamic said:


> Seeing as how a new surround needed to be tooled to allow for proper stroke I decided to tool up an "S" surround instead of a half-roll surround. Initially the overall width of the surround was kept and the "S" shape was calculated and drawn up. See picture 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was modified yesterday to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Decreasing the width of the "S" surround allowed for an increased surface area for the cone body. The first drawing had a cone width of 103mm and the new drawing has the cone width at 115mm so it now has a touch more surface area which means a touch higher sensitivity due to slightly more cone area.
> 
> Also the "S" surround is very linear. The new drawing has the surround being linear up to 15mm one-way and the driver will hard-bottom at 14mm. You may also notice the clearance between the lower surround roll and spider landing shows 13.8mm but as the surround moves further away from rest position the two surround rolls will flatten out so the total combination of surround shape and distance to the spider landing should be nearing their limits at the same time.
> 
> The "S" surround on the BM mkV prototype demonstrated just how much excursion this surround geometry can really handle. I did the math for the BM mkV prototype based on the mkIV's surround width and came up with a very high number (over 30mm) and thought that there was no way it would be that linear and moved forward with the tooling. Upon receiving the driver and getting the diaphragm to hit the top of the spider I noticed that the surround kept its composure completely showing zero signs of stress which confirmed the original math of surround linearity.
> 
> I did not want to make the surround on the new TM65 mkII (v2 - I haven't ultimately decided on which to call it yet) too wide and sacrifice sensitivity. I would rather have the surround do its job and keep the numbers in check while adding surface area to the cone due to the slightly larger cone since the surround could be made with a larger ID.



You build this in a 8" and id most likely buy a set. Big big fan of S/accordion style surrounds.


----------



## tRidiot

So it sounds like these are going to be sooner than later? Like, not a couple months (again, no promises, I understand that, problems can crop up), but something in the next couple of weeks is not out of the question at all?

I'm planning on ordering 2-3 pairs, so if I need to hold on to my money now I'll try to refrain from further significant purchases if I need to. I thought we were still several months away, so I was looking at buying another gun or two. lol Guess I better hold off. 

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, man. We realize you don't have to, but it is nice to feel like we're part of the inner circle!


----------



## Victor_inox

tRidiot said:


> So it sounds like these are going to be sooner than later? Like, not a couple months (again, no promises, I understand that, problems can crop up), but something in the next couple of weeks is not out of the question at all?
> 
> I'm planning on ordering 2-3 pairs, so if I need to hold on to my money now I'll try to refrain from further significant purchases if I need to. I thought we were still several months away, so I was looking at buying another gun or two. lol Guess I better hold off.
> 
> Thanks for keeping us in the loop, man. We realize you don't have to, but it is nice to feel like we're part of the inner circle!


I'd always buy gun before anything else.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## Onyx1136

Victor_inox said:


> I'd always buy gun before anything else.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


The best compromise is to buy more ammo for the guns you already have. Then you get more play time, and the audio gear.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> *So it sounds like these are going to be sooner than later? Like, not a couple months (again, no promises, I understand that, problems can crop up), but something in the next couple of weeks is not out of the question at all?*
> 
> I'm planning on ordering 2-3 pairs, so if I need to hold on to my money now I'll try to refrain from further significant purchases if I need to. I thought we were still several months away, so I was looking at buying another gun or two. lol Guess I better hold off.
> 
> Thanks for keeping us in the loop, man. We realize you don't have to, but it is nice to feel like we're part of the inner circle!


Bold part meaning production drivers arriving ready for shipment? Absolutely not. No way to have them produced that fast. But if you are asking about pre-order the answer is possibly. Only way to tell is to look at the parameters from the prototype and see they are the parameters I want to proceed with.


----------



## SQLnovice

Will the cut-out for this TM65 be the same as the first? Only asking because I'm in the process of installing my TM65 and will purchase a pair of the mkII as well. It's not an issue if it's not, but just wanted to know. Thanks


----------



## seafish

SQLnovice said:


> Will the cut-out for this TM65 be the same as the first? Only asking because I'm in the process of installing my TM65 and will purchase a pair of the mkII as well. It's not an issue if it's not, but just wanted to know. Thanks


Yes it will exactly according to previous info in the thread.


----------



## SQLnovice

seafish said:


> Yes it will exactly according to previous info in the thread.


Thanks, I should have looked back. Long day at work and I were being a little lazy.


----------



## akdingo

Sub'd for preorder!


----------



## tRidiot

Onyx1136 said:


> The best compromise is to buy more ammo for the guns you already have. Then you get more play time, and the audio gear.


There is no problem there... I have plenty of both, it's just a hobby at this point, not a priority.



Electrodynamic said:


> Bold part meaning production drivers arriving ready for shipment? Absolutely not. No way to have them produced that fast. But if you are asking about pre-order the answer is possibly. Only way to tell is to look at the parameters from the prototype and see they are the parameters I want to proceed with.


Not at all, Nick, I understand it will be a while before anything is shipping. I'm strictly talking about the pre-order. My problem is, I'm going on vacation in a few weeks and will be out of the country and off the internet for 3 solid weeks. I'm afraid I'm going to miss out during that period.  Also, due to the vacation, I will be working massive amounts in the weeks leading up to and after my vacation, so I could end up going days without having time to check the internet and/or this thread on occasion. 

Is there any way you would consider collecting emails to send out a notification when the pre-order opens? Something like that? I dunno, just brainstorming here.

Thanks, man.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> There is no problem there... I have plenty of both, it's just a hobby at this point, not a priority.
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, Nick, I understand it will be a while before anything is shipping. I'm strictly talking about the pre-order. My problem is, I'm going on vacation in a few weeks and will be out of the country and off the internet for 3 solid weeks. I'm afraid I'm going to miss out during that period.  Also, due to the vacation, I will be working massive amounts in the weeks leading up to and after my vacation, so I could end up going days without having time to check the internet and/or this thread on occasion.
> 
> Is there any way you would consider collecting emails to send out a notification when the pre-order opens? Something like that? I dunno, just brainstorming here.
> 
> Thanks, man.


I'm going to leave pre-order open for a while...probably at least a month. Remember that I said I would leave pre-order open and see how orders went and if orders are pretty fierce I will increase the production numbers to accommodate the demand. I wouldn't worry about it too much.


----------



## tRidiot

Electrodynamic said:


> I'm going to leave pre-order open for a while...probably at least a month. Remember that I said I would leave pre-order open and see how orders went and if orders are pretty fierce I will increase the production numbers to accommodate the demand. I wouldn't worry about it too much.


That's very helpful. I was worried it would be a short term thing. Thanks very much.


----------



## Electrodynamic

More pictures / progress:

These pictures show dual aluminum shorting rings. We will see how the T/S's come out using aluminum and go from there. If the high-frequency limit is reached with aluminum we will stick with aluminum. If not, we will change over to copper and increase the price of the driver accordingly. 

Having said the latter here are pictures of the prototype as it progresses:

Parts:









Assembled motor:









Put together with the basket (2 pictures):


----------



## JSM-FA5

Sub'd. Glad to see you had enough success with the TM 65 to go for round two! I heard the TM 65's and they sounded great. Can't wait to demo these.


----------



## tRidiot

I know these are being engineered to play higher than the first version... out of curiosity, do you have any specific expectations as it relates to midbass performance? I'm currently running Anarchys in my Tahoe which have great midbass, but not great upper midrange extension - which isn't a problem for me, as they are paired with HLCDs. However in my 370, I have Dynaudio 162s, and I've been utterly disappointed in their low-end performance. Just curious what you might expect out of these?

Thanks for any help you can offer.


----------



## Bminus

IIRC Nick said that these would have just as good if not better than the low end performance of the TM65 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> I know these are being engineered to play higher than the first version... out of curiosity, do you have any specific expectations as it relates to midbass performance? I'm currently running Anarchys in my Tahoe which have great midbass, but not great upper midrange extension - which isn't a problem for me, as they are paired with HLCDs. However in my 370, I have Dynaudio 162s, and I've been utterly disappointed in their low-end performance. Just curious what you might expect out of these?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can offer.


Modeling the original TM65 it had an F3 of 120 Hz. In reality, in a car, the F3 was close to 45 Hz. Modeling the TM65 mkII it has an F3 of 80 Hz so that should tell you how much more low end prowess the newer mkII will have over the original version. 

PS: I should have parameters on the TM65 mkII later tonight.


----------



## soundstreamer

Electrodynamic said:


> Modeling the original TM65 it had an F3 of 120 Hz. In reality, in a car, the F3 was close to 45 Hz. Modeling the TM65 mkII it has an F3 of 80 Hz so that should tell you how much more low end prowess the newer mkII will have over the original version.
> 
> PS: I should have parameters on the TM65 mkII later tonight.


I don't even have my TM65's installed yet and now you're making me want to buy your new ones. lol

Those specs do sure look pretty promising.


----------



## PorkCereal

soundstreamer said:


> I don't even have my TM65's installed yet and now you're making me want to buy your new ones. lol
> 
> Those specs do sure look pretty promising.


I know right, I'm in the same boat. Having trouble getting them to fit in mine. My rings are to thin for the dvc to clear. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> Modeling the original TM65 it had an F3 of 120 Hz. In reality, in a car, the F3 was close to 45 Hz. Modeling the TM65 mkII it has an F3 of 80 Hz so that should tell you how much more low end prowess the newer mkII will have over the original version.
> 
> PS: I should have parameters on the TM65 mkII later tonight.


I get the itchy suspicion for well-treated door placement in 80i-300hz duty with Scan 10F and tweeter setup I'm installing, I'd do well to consider these bad-boys over the SB17's I have in there now. That dang upgrade bug! Dadgummit!!

However, looking at the design and what I had planned to do with the door baffle, permit me to ask.. 

I'm considering copying probably the coolest baffle I've ever seen in Bertholomey's BRZ.. It's essentially a rather tall baffle with 1/4" front baffle piece attaching to another 1/4" piece glassed to the door itself.. Benefit is it pretty much removes the door card from any air-flow from the driver face. My concern though would be air-flow around the mid and with your facing over the mid, would that be an issue at all verses a 'conventional' driver?

I saved his baffle shots *HERE* for my own reference.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Babs said:


> I get the itchy suspicion for well-treated door placement in 80i-300hz duty with Scan 10F and tweeter setup I'm installing, I'd do well to consider these bad-boys over the SB17's I have in there now. That dang upgrade bug! Dadgummit!!
> 
> However, looking at the design and what I had planned to do with the door baffle, permit me to ask..
> 
> I'm considering copying probably the coolest baffle I've ever seen in Bertholomey's BRZ.. It's essentially a rather tall baffle with 1/4" front baffle piece attaching to another 1/4" piece glassed to the door itself.. Benefit is it pretty much removes the door card from any air-flow from the driver face. My concern though would be air-flow around the mid and with your facing over the mid, would that be an issue at all verses a 'conventional' driver?
> 
> I saved his baffle shots *HERE* for my own reference.


No "issue" at all. The water guard on the TM65 mkII sheds water away from the moving parts of the driver. The sound and pressure is free to move unobstructed behind the driver. It will only be if someone takes it upon themselves to fiberglass the basket shut that there will be an issue with the air behind the cone.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Push terminals look huge on the driver, haha. The blue plastic piece is the shim for assembly:


----------



## Victor_inox

There is smaller push terminals available, just saying....


----------



## rton20s

Victor_inox said:


> There is smaller push terminals available, just saying....


But then how would you fit the 8 AWG wire? :worried:


----------



## Lanson

The terminals look great but it also looks like they may be a bit close together, maybe capable of shorting themselves if they touch, or if something causes them to touch. The quality of them and the way they are mounted looks top-notch though.


----------



## Victor_inox

8awg on midbass drivers is kinda retarded.

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## Onyx1136

Victor_inox said:


> 8awg on midbass drivers is kinda retarded


Pretty sure that was a joke. At least I really hope it was.


----------



## Babs

Uh yes. Sarcasm alert. Hahahaha 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> No "issue" at all. The water guard on the TM65 mkII sheds water away from the moving parts of the driver. The sound and pressure is free to move unobstructed behind the driver. It will only be if someone takes it upon themselves to fiberglass the basket shut that there will be an issue with the air behind the cone.



So now I'm all hot and bothered then. Wonder if these will be anywhere near production before Jason's NCSQ fall meet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s




----------



## Electrodynamic

fourthmeal said:


> The terminals look great but it also looks like they may be a bit close together, maybe capable of shorting themselves if they touch, or if something causes them to touch. The quality of them and the way they are mounted looks top-notch though.


Not in the cards.

If the single coil was 0.5 Ohm and someone attempted to throw 3,000 watts at the single 6.5 you could be concerned about the terminals shorting from the massive amount of current. 

Or if someone took a hammer to the terminal block and then touched the terminals together. 

But with 150 watts or less there is nothing to worry about.


----------



## Beckerson1

I'm going to hold out on these. At some point here I will have time to get my setup fixed up to were it should be. 

BTW

The Mk1 is killing it in the mid bass department in my setup. Currently not ported but semi sealed due to ( in many cases the enclosure's walls are to close to the port causing some major resonance issues) These should be even more impressive 

I'm going to keep my promise and get this ported door setup working.


----------



## Victor_inox

rton20s said:


>


Or maybe people needs to learn to use emoticons appropriately


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> There is smaller push terminals available, just saying....


Haha. Yes, but this is DIYMA. Not that "this is DIYMA" but throughout the years especially with the Obsidian Audio 18's and the first TM65's that terminals are the one thing you do not skimp on. There was a small up-roar about the OA 18's only being able to accept 12 AWG so I increased their size to accept 4 AWG which kept everyone happy. Same with the first gen TM65 - the terminal tabs were less expensive which made the purchase price lower. But ever since "termageddon" (even though Focal uses a similar tab on the 6.5" mid in their $20,000 flagship ULTIMA components) I made a point to not only have push terminals but very big push terminals.


----------



## Jscoyne2

Electrodynamic said:


> Not in the cards.
> 
> If the single coil was 0.5 Ohm and someone attempted to throw 3,000 watts at the single 6.5 you could be concerned about the terminals shorting from the massive amount of current.
> 
> Or if someone took a hammer to the terminal block and then touched the terminals together.
> 
> But with 150 watts or less there is nothing to worry about.


Are you talking about arcing?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> Are you talking about arcing?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


Yes in that it is not possible with the amount of power the TM65 mkII can handle (even 3x, 5x, etc). Don't attempt to dig to the center of the earth when the answer is on the surface. 

The Obsidian Audio 10's that I made a few years back had terminals that were literally sitting against the top of the top plate. It took inserting wire into the terminals to get the terminals to not touch the top plate. And those 10's were rated at 600 watts RMS and there was never an issue of arcing against the top plate. Again, don't look too deep into it. These are still prototype pictures so lets relax a little bit.


----------



## Bminus

Love me some push terminals!!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> Haha. Yes, but this is DIYMA. Not that "this is DIYMA" but throughout the years especially with the Obsidian Audio 18's and the first TM65's that terminals are the one thing you do not skimp on. There was a small up-roar about the OA 18's only being able to accept 12 AWG so I increased their size to accept 4 AWG which kept everyone happy. Same with the first gen TM65 - the terminal tabs were less expensive which made the purchase price lower. But ever since "termageddon" (even though Focal uses a similar tab on the 6.5" mid in their $20,000 flagship ULTIMA components) I made a point to not only have push terminals but very big push terminals.


Yeah I know, people here using 000 power wire for measly 1000W of total power in 6' runs, they need grotesque terminals as well.
I`d never spend a penny more on technically unimportant " upgrade".


----------



## Weigel21

those push terminals do look like overkill at this point, but that's just my initial thought. Looking at the photo I do have concerns that at some point the push terminals could end up touching with that minimal gap between them. I mean I don't know if the outer sleeve will eventually loosen up and wobble or not. 

Also, and plans to ever make optional grills for these?


----------



## rton20s

Victor_inox said:


> Or maybe people needs to learn to use emoticons appropriately


----------



## Lanson

I love push terminals too (especially for a car door, due to how you have to wire it before installing and you have to make sure to not bend or break the terminal mounting material in a door while doing that...not always easy with multiple rings to mount behind the speaker), I was also just curious about wobbling over time, or design tolerances. I'm not trying to be critical. Also, the ones on the Focals looks to be made out of a high-grade fiberglass board similar to motherboard glass, not cardstock or similar. And who's to say Focal hasn't seen some critical complaints about their design? No way to know, as I'm sure we're not going to hear much from their complaint department on here.


----------



## Electrodynamic

fourthmeal said:


> I love push terminals too (especially for a car door, due to how you have to wire it before installing and you have to make sure to not bend or break the terminal mounting material in a door while doing that...not always easy with multiple rings to mount behind the speaker), I was also just curious about wobbling over time, or design tolerances. I'm not trying to be critical. Also, the ones on the Focals looks to be made out of a high-grade fiberglass board similar to motherboard glass, not cardstock or similar. And who's to say Focal hasn't seen some critical complaints about their design? No way to know, as I'm sure we're not going to hear much from their complaint department on here.


Exactly. And now you're being critical about push terminals vs. the previous terminals. The spacing between the terminals and the cutout is beyond more than adequate which means there will not be any problems with the terminals structural integrity when connecting wire unless you are trying to use 8 AWG wire to hook up a 6.5" mid/woofer. When I had push terminals on completely opposite sides of the basket of the BM mkIII's/mkIV's I had people complain about not knowing which terminals were for which coil even though it was immediately evident which pairs were closer to each other. I completely understand and agree that the previous TM65 terminals were not very sturdy. However, these new prototype (key word there - prototype) large push terminals are now in the center of your sights for some reason even though they are significantly upgraded.


----------



## Electrodynamic

The motor of the TM65 mkII is being re-tooled to a larger motor along with less layers of voice coil. I will keep the forum updated when new, modified specs, are measured.


----------



## Darth SQ

WTF, I thought you discontinued these last year. :shrug:


----------



## Electrodynamic

Darth SQ said:


> WTF, I thought you discontinued these last year. :shrug:


Look around on DIYMA. Lots of info you have missed.

Completely new woofer. Still 6.5" size 2.3" deep. New goals. Etc.


----------



## frontman

Is it less than 2.6 inches deep, or 3.6 inches deep?


----------



## dgage

3.6" wouldn't be very impressive would it? Nick meant 2.6".


----------



## soundquality4me

Electrodynamic said:


> The motor of the TM65 mkII is being re-tooled to a larger motor along with less layers of voice coil. I will keep the forum updated when new, modified specs, are measured.



Loving the sound of this = ) 

I check this thread every day, keep me posted!


----------



## Victor_inox

Nick, you can`t please every moron pretending to be ****ing engineer here, you`d love to but you simply can`t.
learning to say "**** off" is not easy when you want to win over as many customers as you possibly can. If you can defend your choices from engineering and economic points of view that`s all it should take. Terminals is not critical part of the design, it makes nothing to improve performance of the driver. I wouldn`t spent a cent of my money nor a minute of my time to make it look "upscale" like some of favorite brands here doing at customer expense. but people mostly stupid they take looks above performance every single time.


----------



## tRidiot

Sounds like we've got a little more time to save, then... I'm good with that, got a lot of expenses this month. Thanks, Nick.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Lots of changes for lots of reasons and proper progress has been made to the design to reach the desired goals. A few main points:

1) Coil will now be a two layer coil to further reduce inductance to reach the goal of 4,000 Hz HF extension. The 4 layer coil showed extension to 2,800 Hz but I want the TM65 mkII to play up to at least 3,500 Hz if not 4,000 Hz. Hence a 2 layer coil. 

2) Motor has grown from a 70 mm OD to a 90 mm OD (same OD as the first TM65).

3) The motor (top plates) now sit slightly inside of the basket along with a slightly thicker, and stronger, neo magnet slug. The result is absolutely zero increase in mounting depth while increasing motor strength even when looking at the fine details. Details such as no internally bumped backplate meaning a thicker backplate overall for flux to flow through meaning a slightly stronger motor. Same with the top of the motor sitting slightly inside / flush with the basket - flux is not reduced but rather diverted to a different path (just like how XBL^2 works with its split gap geometry). 

Anyway here is a cutaway of the new driver:










Now if you are still reading this post after seeing the image I am going to open up pre-ordering for this new driver very soon. Pre-ordering will be staggared pricing just like the M25 tweeters - meaning the lowest price will be the first price offered. And like a numb-skull the first price for pre-order will be the previous price of the original TM65 at $99 each shipped inside the lower 48 United States.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> Nick, you can`t please every moron pretending to be ****ing engineer here, you`d love to but you simply can`t.
> learning to say "**** off" is not easy when you want to win over as many customers as you possibly can. If you can defend your choices from engineering and economic points of view that`s all it should take. Terminals is not critical part of the design, it makes nothing to improve performance of the driver. I wouldn`t spent a cent of my money nor a minute of my time to make it look "upscale" like some of favorite brands here doing at customer expense. but people mostly stupid they take looks above performance every single time.


Haha. Obviously I am going to look for smaller, more appropriate, terminals for production. But for this prototype the terminals are fine. As I said before they will not "arc" or "short" or anything else like that. The terminals are going to be fine - they are held by cast aluminum so they will not bend, break, etc, under normal circumstances. However, if you tie the driver behind your truck and tear off down the road the terminals may fail. Haha.


----------



## Flyhogz

Will the preorder be on the website tonight?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Electrodynamic

Electrodynamic said:


> Look around on DIYMA. Lots of info you have missed.
> 
> Completely new woofer. Still 6.5" size under 3.6" deep. New goals. Etc.


Dangit. I can't edit my post now. As others have said I meant to say right at 2.3" deep. Not sure where 3.6" deep came from...that's a deep 6.5.


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## adriancp

Like how soon is "soon" for the pre-order? This weekend or a week from now or....?? Just trying to keep eyes open


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PorkCereal

Depends on the build house and the results he gets from the prototypes. I'd guess weeks to months. Not days

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## WhiteL02

Sounds like you keep making improvements which makes me really hopeful!


----------



## rton20s

Electrodynamic said:


> However, if you tie the driver behind your truck and tear off down the road the terminals may fail. Haha.


I think this would be a great exclusion to provide with the warranty for the driver. 

On the rendering of the revised driver design, I much prefer the look of this from an aesthetic perspective compared to the previously photographed prototype. The (near) alignment of the motor and basket "feels" much more intentional/polished. Even if some view the increased motor diameter as a negative in terms of fitment, I think the improved performance and aesthetics are well worth the trade.


----------



## soundquality4me

Performance over all, if that adds to the price so be it. I could care less what a hidden speaker will look like as long as it fits (2.5" or under). So ready to finally settle on a 6.5 speaker for good.


----------



## tRidiot

Not too worried about the price point... a few bucks more here or there won't make much of a difference for me. I will be in for 2 pair, maybe even 3, if I can convince myself and find someone GOOD to build me some new doorpanels for dual mids.


----------



## waffleguy

Hello Nick, I was curious as to why you chose a PP cone and not paper? Was it for cost and consistency? And the only way you could sell the 3 inch drivers would be to market it mainly for home audio as someone needs to design and market an XBL2 fullrange driver that is cheaper than an Audience A3 for a reasonable price. Whether it will be you or not depends up to demand. I know the single driver fullrange guys would love a 3 incher from you for line arrays. That's where the money is. Hope you have a great day!

- Darwin


----------



## piyush7243

waffleguy said:


> Hello Nick, I was curious as to why you chose a PP cone and not paper? Was it for cost and consistency? And the only way you could sell the 3 inch drivers would be to market it mainly for home audio as someone needs to design and market an XBL2 fullrange driver that is cheaper than an Audience A3 for a reasonable price. Whether it will be you or not depends up to demand. I know the single driver fullrange guys would love a 3 incher from you for line arrays. That's where the money is. Hope you have a great day!
> 
> - Darwin


Paper has a lower breakup point unless treated accordingly n I think this time Nick wants the driver to play higher with less breakup. But he would be the best person to actually tell the reason

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

waffleguy said:


> Hello Nick, I was curious as to why you chose a PP cone and not paper? Was it for cost and consistency?. Hope you have a great day!
> 
> - Darwin


When I decided to tool up literally everything for this new TM65 mkII I wanted to use an inverted poly dome for the diaphragm. I have always been a fan of the Polk air injected poly cones on their premium 6.5 so I decided to use that style of poly instead of paper. Sure poly is heavier than paper but I liked the science behind the air injected poly and because I knew the motor was going to be neo again I knew I could make up the mass difference with a strong(er) motor. Poly is also more durable than paper. Same with the surround - I could have used foam and gained a little sensitivity but for durability rubber is the clear and obvious choice.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Here are the T/S's I anticipate the driver having. These are in FEM so production will be different but I know you guys have been asking for at least an idea of the parameters so here they are:

Re: 3.2 Ohms
Fs: 75 Hz
Qes: 1.1
Qms: 2.0
Qts: 0.71
Le: 0.14
Sd: 136.9 cm^2
Vas: 5.5 L
BL: 5.4
Mms: 21.3 g
Sensitivity: 89 dB (2.83V)
Xmax: 9 mm
RMS power handling: 120 watts


----------



## nineball76

Estimated Xmax and rms? Similar as previous model or with the smaller coil is it not as stout?


----------



## Electrodynamic

nineball76 said:


> Estimated Xmax and rms? Similar as previous model or with the smaller coil is it not as stout?


Xmax and power handling are the same. 9 mm Xmax, 120 watts RMS power hanndling. 

The original TM65 used a six layer coil which was able to handle more than triple the rated power if excursion could be kept in check. The original 6 layer coil was totally overkill and an absolute brute. This new TM65 mkII uses a more adequate coil with the same power handling rating.


----------



## FNcrazy

Quick question. What is Xmax? And what are good and bad numbers? 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Jscoyne2

FNcrazy said:


> Quick question. What is Xmax? And what are good and bad numbers?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Not the place to ask

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> Not the place to ask
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


I thought something similar but we all start somewhere and at least he is asking the right questions. @FNcrazy start doing research through Google searches or simply refining searches here on DIYMA. There is a TON of information to read though on this forum alone. Feel free to ask questions like yours in the designated forum sub-sections. 

The ultra-short answer to your question is Xmax is how far a cone can move in one direction before distorting. Good numbers for a speaker installed in a car door is you want to have Qts resemble close to a 0.707 as that number is the "best" sealed alignment for a subwoofer or speaker.


----------



## FNcrazy

Electrodynamic said:


> I thought something similar but we all start somewhere and at least he is asking the right questions. @FNcrazy start doing research through Google searches or simply refining searches here on DIYMA. There is a TON of information to read though on this forum alone. Feel free to ask questions like yours in the designated forum sub-sections.


I apologize. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Jscoyne2

Electrodynamic said:


> I thought something similar but we all start somewhere and at least he is asking the right questions. @FNcrazy start doing research through Google searches or simply refining searches here on DIYMA. There is a TON of information to read though on this forum alone. Feel free to ask questions like yours in the designated forum sub-sections.


Someones being awfully nice lately... 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Electrodynamic

FNcrazy said:


> I apologize.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


No need to apologize. But for general questions post in the general section or this forum can be like a shark tank and you're the chum. Just trying to let you know before you get the blunt end of the stick.


----------



## FNcrazy

Electrodynamic said:


> No need to apologize. But for general questions post in the general section or this forum can be like a shark tank and you're the chum. Just trying to let you know before you get the blunt end of the stick.


Thank you. 

A momentary (I think) lack of judgment on my part. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## caraudiopimps

rton20s said:


> I think this would be a great exclusion to provide with the warranty for the driver.
> 
> On the rendering of the revised driver design, I much prefer the look of this from an aesthetic perspective compared to the previously photographed prototype. The (near) alignment of the motor and basket "feels" much more intentional/polished. Even if some view the increased motor diameter as a negative in terms of fitment, I think the improved performance and aesthetics are well worth the trade.


Agreed, and to anyone bitching about the fitment, you're in a DIY community. You can make anything fit with work, and if you don't like it, you can always run different speakers. These are a quality product from what I can tell, and deserve more than just a drop in install. Thanks for making some great speakers @electrodynamics! I'll probably try a set out when they release!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Ok guys, pre-ordering is open for the first batch of TM65 mkII's on our web page (click here). Pricing is staggered and will increase after one month from today. The early bird pre-order pricing is $89 each shipped inside the lower 48 United States. We are in the final stages of the design and are only waiting on the larger 90 mm slug motor to be prototyped before assembly begins. I have updated the web page for the TM65 mkII to reflect the anticipated T/S's along with the major key elements of the drivers design.


----------



## iroller

won't let me order


----------



## Bruneti

Worked for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiteL02

Ordered a couple. Seen the new fs is a lot higher than original. Does that mean the markii won't have as much bottom end?


----------



## Electrodynamic

WhiteL02 said:


> Ordered a couple. Seen the new fs is a lot higher than original. Does that mean the markii won't have as much bottom end?


Not at all. The new mkII has a much higher Qts which offsets the higher Fs. The higher Fs comes from the reduced weight of the two layer coil vs. a 4 or 6 layer coil. The TM65 mkII will have substantially more low end and midbass output than the original TM65.


----------



## Electrodynamic

iroller said:


> won't let me order


Our web page may hiccup when many people are on it at the same time, or if I am editing something, or if my webmaster is editing something, etc. Let me know if the problem persists and I will check it out.


----------



## Lymen

Exciting! Let me know how to get in on this from Canada please and thank you &#55357;&#56835;


----------



## WhiteL02

Electrodynamic said:


> Not at all. The new mkII has a much higher Qts which offsets the higher Fs. The higher Fs comes from the reduced weight of the two layer coil vs. a 4 or 6 layer coil. The TM65 mkII will have substantially more low end and midbass output than the original TM65.


That is Great news!!! Can't wait


----------



## Babs

Oh snap! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Inferno333

And ordered my pair.

Thanks!


----------



## Jscoyne2

Electrodynamic said:


> Not at all. The new mkII has a much higher Qts which offsets the higher Fs. The higher Fs comes from the reduced weight of the two layer coil vs. a 4 or 6 layer coil. The TM65 mkII will have substantially more low end and midbass output than the original TM65.


Which will be impressive to say the least

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Mattppi

Subscribed


----------



## Topless Stang

In for 2! Order #1610!


----------



## Weigel21

Electrodynamic said:


> Ok guys, pre-ordering is open for the first batch of TM65 mkII's on our web page (click here). Pricing is staggered and will increase after one month from today. The early bird pre-order pricing is $89 each shipped inside the lower 48 United States. We are in the final stages of the design and are only waiting on the larger 90 mm slug motor to be prototyped before assembly begins. I have updated the web page for the TM65 mkII to reflect the anticipated T/S's along with the major key elements of the drivers design.


So am I to assume that mean we have one solid month from last night to get these ordered for the price of $89 each? I ask as I doubt I'll have the funds for a couple weeks.


----------



## PatFitz9

Electrodynamic said:


> Xmax and power handling are the same. 9 mm Xmax, 120 watts RMS power hanndling.
> 
> The original TM65 used a six layer coil which was able to handle more than triple the rated power if excursion could be kept in check. The original 6 layer coil was totally overkill and an absolute brute. This new TM65 mkII uses a more adequate coil with the same power handling rating.


What about going the opposite way? How would the new mkII's perform with 75-100 watts?


----------



## Topless Stang

I can't wait to get these in my grubby little paws....part of me wishes I waited on picking up the first gen TM65s I picked up last month. I had no idea the pre-order was gonna come this quickly! I'll have to wait a little longer to get both of my cars done, but I'm sure it'll be worth it!


----------



## Victor_inox

Order:	1618


----------



## Bdub

Ordered. Thanks Nick!


----------



## RandyJ75

Just ordered a set. Can't wait to get them!!

Now I need a tweeter to go with them.

#1622


----------



## Victor_inox

RandyJ75 said:


> Just ordered a set. Can't wait to get them!!
> 
> Now I need a tweeter to go with them.


Randy it seems nicks new tweets will be a perfect match.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## PorkCereal

Damn, now the question is, what do i do with my mk1 i haven't installed yet =[ they were going in this weekend. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## RandyJ75

Victor_inox said:


> Randy it seems nicks new tweets will be a perfect match.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Thanks Vic, I was just looking at them. I am also considering going w/ a mid that can play up high, like Mikes (Velocity) truck.

Lots of things to consider.


----------



## bbfoto

Order placed for one pair, Order #1623.

Good luck, Nick. I understand that it probably will not be until September or October, but please keep everyone up to date regarding when this preorder batch will ship. Timeline might work out to end up testing them in an Aston Vanquish. 

Thanks. 

- Billy B.


----------



## soundquality4me

In and ordered =) 
If anybody can do me a solid and when they're making a speaker baffle for these, if they could make another pair for me as well. Will be paid of course, I just don't have access to any of the tools and have never made one before. 
Want to get these plastic ones out of here, as they're breaking.


----------



## Theslaking

soundquality4me said:


> If anybody can do me a solid and when they're making a speaker baffle for these, if they could make another pair for me as well. Will be paid of course, I just don't have access to any of the tools and have never made one before.
> Want to get these plastic ones out of here, as they're breaking.


How can someone make you a baffle for a speaker that hasn't been manufactured yet alone sold yet?

I am really just giving you a hard time because Nick has made it clear he doesn't want this thread to be about anything but the mkII. PM me about it


----------



## Electrodynamic

Weigel21 said:


> So am I to assume that mean we have one solid month from last night to get these ordered for the price of $89 each? I ask as I doubt I'll have the funds for a couple weeks.


Yep. Exactly. You guys have four weeks at the $89 price.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Theslaking said:


> How can someone make you a baffle for a speaker that hasn't been manufactured yet alone sold yet?
> 
> I am really just giving you a hard time because Nick has made it clear he doesn't want this thread to be about anything but the mkII. PM me about it


Haha.  

Same size cutout and OD as the previous version.


----------



## Weigel21

Electrodynamic said:


> Yep. Exactly. You guys have four weeks at the $89 price.


Awesome, I'm down for a set when my buddy pays me back.


----------



## bbfoto

Electrodynamic said:


> Haha.
> 
> Same size cutout and OD as the previous version.


Smart move there, son. :thumbsup:


----------



## Electrodynamic

bbfoto said:


> Smart move there, son. :thumbsup:


I may know a thing or two about keeping previous customers coming back. But wait...that would mean I know I'm talking about when it comes to the drawings and design. Psh...who was I kidding!  Cutout is different, OD is different, I think it's an 8 Ohm driver, it may play up to 1,000 Hz, I'm not sure.


----------



## Jscoyne2

I dont see T/S specs for the tm65 anymore :/ on the site

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## PorkCereal

Jscoyne2 said:


> I dont see T/S specs for the tm65 anymore :/ on the site
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


I think he really needs an archived section for his older stuff. Much if it still floats around and info can be hard to relocate. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## PatFitz9

Perhaps my question was missed, but how would the new TM65's perform if only sent 75 watts each? Not a good fit for these speakers?


----------



## foreman

Reading what Nick said about the coil, i'd say very well.





PatFitz9 said:


> Perhaps my question was missed, but how would the new TM65's perform if only sent 75 watts each? Not a good fit for these speakers?


----------



## Jscoyne2

foreman said:


> Reading what Nick said about the coil, i'd say very well.


Except its a xbl2 motor which take more to get loud

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## foreman

I had a Pair of MKI, and i had 75 watts going to them at first. They sounded very good, but lacked in midbass for sure. I stepped it up to 150 per driver and they came alive. If these are more efficient than their first iteration, 75 should do pretty decent. I suppose it depends on your expectations.


----------



## rton20s

With some real quick modeling of these in a door with a simple BW2 HPF @ 63 Hz the original TM65 does get ~3 dB louder on 75W compared to the prototype spec. Roll off starts much higher and at a shallower slope (there is that Qts thing Nick was talking about) on the original though and by the time you get down to 100 Hz the output is about the same. Difference is, the new driver models with about the same total output from there up and the old model is down 3 dB from the upper frequency response.


----------



## foreman

Well ok then  Thanks for taking the time, i would have thought the less layered the coil, it may have helped the efficiency. :beerchug:





rton20s said:


> With some real quick modeling of these in a door with a simple BW2 HPF @ 63 Hz the original TM65 does get ~3 dB louder on 75W compared to the prototype spec. Roll off starts much higher and at a shallower slope (there is that Qts thing Nick was talking about) on the original though and by the time you get down to 100 Hz the output is about the same. Difference is, the new driver models with about the same total output from there up and the old model is down 3 dB from the upper frequency response.


----------



## dawaro

rton20s said:


> With some real quick modeling of these in a door with a simple BW2 HPF @ 63 Hz the original TM65 does get ~3 dB louder on 75W compared to the prototype spec. Roll off starts much higher and at a shallower slope (there is that Qts thing Nick was talking about) on the original though and by the time you get down to 100 Hz the output is about the same. Difference is, the new driver models with about the same total output from there up and the old model is down 3 dB from the upper frequency response.


Not disputing the results, just curious, what are you using to model the in door response?


----------



## rton20s

foreman said:


> Well ok then  Thanks for taking the time, i would have thought the less layered the coil, it may have helped the efficiency. :beerchug:














dawaro said:


> Not disputing the results, just curious, what are you using to model the in door response?


I use WinISD. I estimated a fairly well sealed average door at 2 cf. Again, just a rough estimate, but enough to A/B a couple of drivers.


----------



## soundquality4me

rton20s said:


> With some real quick modeling of these in a door with a simple BW2 HPF @ 63 Hz the original TM65 does get ~3 dB louder on 75W compared to the prototype spec. Roll off starts much higher and at a shallower slope (there is that Qts thing Nick was talking about) on the original though and by the time you get down to 100 Hz the output is about the same. Difference is, the new driver models with about the same total output from there up and the old model is down 3 dB from the upper frequency response.


Wait so the original tm65 is able to play higher than this one? I thought that was the main point of this one? Could be wrong here but is that what you are trying to say


----------



## nineball76

soundquality4me said:


> Wait so the original tm65 is able to play higher than this one? I thought that was the main point of this one? Could be wrong here but is that what you are trying to say


I think it was meant that the mki was 3 dB quieter than the mkii in the upper response


----------



## soundquality4me

nineball76 said:


> I think it was meant that the mki was 3 dB quieter than the mkii in the upper response



This line 

Roll off starts much higher and at a shallower slope (there is that Qts thing Nick was talking about) on the original though


----------



## rton20s

A picture is worth a thousand words, right? Nick has already talked about the power handling, and the question was raised on how the driver might perform on only 75W. So, I modeled the new vs the old in 2cf (approximation of a sealed door) with a 63Hz BW2 HPF. Below is the result. Original TM65 in yellow, TM65 MkII in red. (Not that the SPL level *is not* an indication of a better or worse driver. This is simply a simulation of how the two drivers might perform in *this specific circumstance.*)


----------



## seafish

Can anyone suggest which one will make a better mid woofer mounted in a well sealed door operating only between 80 and 300hz ??

On edit...sorry just saw the graph above (didn;t load on my mobile) and obviously either will work well, with the mk1 being a little louder in that range amd perhaps can play even lower given the lower fs??


----------



## kmbkk

Nick, quick question: are we charged as soon as ordering or will we not be charged until the speakers ship?


----------



## Electrodynamic

rton20s said:


> With some real quick modeling of these in a door with a simple BW2 HPF @ 63 Hz the original TM65 does get ~3 dB louder on 75W compared to the prototype spec. Roll off starts much higher and at a shallower slope (there is that Qts thing Nick was talking about) on the original though and by the time you get down to 100 Hz the output is about the same. Difference is, the new driver models with about the same total output from there up and the old model is down 3 dB from the upper frequency response.


I disagree. Using WinISD the models look like this with 1 watt between the two drivers. Original TM65 is yellow, new TM65 mkII is orange. WinISD's power estimates on FR have shown to be wildly off on actual power. The measured FR more closely resembles the natural curve that the program first spits out if you are looking at F3's on the bottom end and the top end:










If you want to use WinISD for a reference the original TM65 has an in-car F3 of about 45 Hz. Wildly different than what WinISD projects even at the 1 watt level (there is no 2.83 v option in the program). The higher Qts of the TM65 mkII will allow it to possess a substantial amount more bottom end than its predecessor. And with lower inductance it will be able to play higher as well. 

Not rton but someone else mentioned XBL^2 drivers needing more power - not the case at all. They just have less distortion at lower power levels (everywhere really). You might just be accustomed to hearing other drivers distort earlier compared to an XBL^2 driver.


----------



## Electrodynamic

soundquality4me said:


> Wait so the original tm65 is able to play higher than this one? I thought that was the main point of this one? Could be wrong here but is that what you are trying to say


The new TM65 mkII is able to play higher with its 2 layer coil vs. the original TM65's six layer coil. Rton is not factoring the effects of modeled inductance into his screen shots (see the above screen shot).


----------



## Electrodynamic

kmbkk said:


> Nick, quick question: are we charged as soon as ordering or will we not be charged until the speakers ship?


You are charged when you place your order. If you wish to wait to be charged at the end of production you will purchase the driver(s) at the normal price.


----------



## Lanson

This makes much more sense and agrees with what I was modeling for fun.

That improved area under the curve in the 2k-3k region is going to be a great thing, I think. You won't need to hunt so hard to find a tweeter that's happy to match.



Electrodynamic said:


> I disagree. Using WinISD the models look like this with 1 watt between the two drivers. Original TM65 is yellow, new TM65 mkII is orange. WinISD's power estimates on FR have shown to be wildly off on actual power. The measured FR more closely resembles the natural curve that the program first spits out if you are looking at F3's on the bottom end and the top end:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to use WinISD for a reference the original TM65 has an in-car F3 of about 45 Hz. Wildly different than what WinISD projects even at the 1 watt level (there is no 2.83 v option in the program). The higher Qts of the TM65 mkII will allow it to possess a substantial amount more bottom end than its predecessor. And with lower inductance it will be able to play higher as well.
> 
> Not rton but someone else mentioned XBL^2 drivers needing more power - not the case at all. They just have less distortion at lower power levels (everywhere really). You might just be accustomed to hearing other drivers distort earlier compared to an XBL^2 driver.


----------



## rton20s

Nick,

I appreciate the feedback, and I am always willing to learn. I wasn't aware that WinISD was known to be "wildly off." If there is something that can be done in modeling to reduce these errors, I would love to know about it. Any advice you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Also of note is that the screen cap I had was of the SPL graph, while yours is of the Transfer Function Magnitude graph. I will admit that I had not input the inductance parameter with my original model, as this isn't as necessary with most subwoofer applications (where I used WinISD most). In this application, it is much more important. Especially considering that this is one of the big selling point of the MkII compared to the original TM65. Below you will see my corrected graphs with the added inductance parameters for each driver. Same 2 cf door, but no HPF and only 1W of power. 

TM65 (yellow) v TM65 MkII (red) Transfer Function









TM65 (yellow) v TM65 MkII (red) SPL








(By the way, other than the output level, those curves look very similar on 75W.)

I am still seeing a noticeable difference (~3 dB) in output on the SPL graph. The only explanation I have for this is the fact that I let WinISD calculate the sensitivity and the original TM65 calculates to 88.57 dB while the MkII calculates to 85.36 dB. Any ideas why this might happen? I can provide a screen cap of the parameters I have entered, if it would help. 

Also, am I correct in assuming the difference in WinISD's calculated F3 and in-car measured F3 is due primarily to the "room" not being taken into account in WinISD? Cabin gain takes effect and helps fill out the bottom end?

Having said all of that, if I was looking at these two drivers based on modeling, the MkII would be my choice.


----------



## Bruneti

While modeling is interesting and can be very indicative of performance, I will try to wait patiently to see actual measurements of production level drivers before drawing conclusions. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

rton20s said:


> Nick,
> 
> I appreciate the feedback, and I am always willing to learn. I wasn't aware that WinISD was known to be "wildly off." If there is something that can be done in modeling to reduce these errors, I would love to know about it. Any advice you might have would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Also of note is that the screen cap I had was of the SPL graph, while yours is of the Transfer Function Magnitude graph. I will admit that I had not input the inductance parameter with my original model, as this isn't as necessary with most subwoofer applications (where I used WinISD most). In this application, it is much more important. Especially considering that this is one of the big selling point of the MkII compared to the original TM65. Below you will see my corrected graphs with the added inductance parameters for each driver. Same 2 cf door, but no HPF and only 1W of power.
> 
> TM65 (yellow) v TM65 MkII (red) Transfer Function
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TM65 (yellow) v TM65 MkII (red) SPL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (By the way, other than the output level, those curves look very similar on 75W.)
> 
> I am still seeing a noticeable difference (~3 dB) in output on the SPL graph. The only explanation I have for this is the fact that I let WinISD calculate the sensitivity and the original TM65 calculates to 88.57 dB while the MkII calculates to 85.36 dB. Any ideas why this might happen? I can provide a screen cap of the parameters I have entered, if it would help.
> 
> Also, am I correct in assuming the difference in WinISD's calculated F3 and in-car measured F3 is due primarily to the "room" not being taken into account in WinISD? Cabin gain takes effect and helps fill out the bottom end?
> 
> Having said all of that, if I was looking at these two drivers based on modeling, the MkII would be my choice.


Rton, while I did say "wildly off", well, I kind of meant it (but in one aspect - read below). Haha.  If you listened to everything in an open field or anechoic chamber the results may be closer to WinISD's results under power but when any speaker is put into an actual environment too many factors come into play and have a pretty massive impact on the FR. For instance take the original TM65's result from WinISD and then compare it to in-car measured responses - the TM65 plays flat down to 50 Hz and most cabin gain starts at 45 to 55 Hz so there is a pretty big area missing from WinISD's graph. And to be honest even I don't have an answer for the original TM65's low-end performance between 100 Hz and 50 hz because cabin gain is not the answer as cabin gain starts right at / below where the TM65's response starts falling off. 

Through my measurements I have found the measured results to be closer to the initial Transfer Function Magnitude than any other graph that WinISD supplies. BUT Transfer Function Magnitude can be close if you measure the driver in the exact enclosure in an open field at ground plane one meter from the drivers cone.

I recently measured my car with the original TM65's in the stock door locations. The major thing to notice, IMO, is the linear FR vs. WinISD's positive curve response. I narrowed down the full range measurement to show the flatter response compared to what WinISD shows in the below image:









Also here the first version of the original TM65 (before we modified the spider to provide a smoother FR up top). Compare it to what WinISD provides even under the Transfer Function Magnitude. The large hump in the middle of the bandwidth shown on WinISD simply isn't there in reality:









And FWIW you should *always* model inductance! Subwoofers, midranges, etc. When you start including Le in your graphs you will start seeing just how narrow the bandwidth of some subwoofers are. Some start rolling off before your crossover point and really high inductance is never a good thing (piss poor transient response mainly).


----------



## Electrodynamic

Someone's butt just got bigger...


----------



## Mattppi

Beautiful!!


----------



## soundquality4me

I like big buts and I can not lie


----------



## dgage

Electrodynamic said:


> Someone's butt just got bigger...


Probably just as well Nick because you were looking a little peaked the last time I saw you.


----------



## Topless Stang

Love me some speaker porn! Can't wait to see them when they're all finished up!


----------



## TravisT

subscribed!


----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> Someone's butt just got bigger...



And there ain't nothin wrong with that! 
Looking good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

Final T/S's from the final, larger, motored prototype pictured above:

Re: 3.2 Ohm
Fs: 69 Hz
Qes: 0.90
Qms: 3.0
Qts: 0.69
Le: 0.03 mH
Sd: 136.9 cm^2
Vas: 5.5 L
BL: 6.2
Mms: 25 g
Xmax: 9 mm
Xmech: 13 mm
SPL (2.83 v): 88 dB


----------



## JSM-FA5

Just to clarify, 89 each will be in effect until the middle of August?


----------



## Electrodynamic

JSM-FA5 said:


> Just to clarify, 89 each will be in effect until the middle of August?


Correct.


----------



## JSM-FA5

Thank you much! Can't wait till I FINALLY get a pair of SI 6.5's


----------



## rton20s

Electrodynamic said:


> Final T/S's from the final, larger, motored prototype pictured above:
> 
> Re: 3.2 Ohm
> Fs: 69 Hz
> Qes: 0.90
> Qms: 3.0
> Qts: 0.69
> Le: 0.03 mH
> Sd: 136.9 cm^2
> Vas: 5.5 L
> BL: 6.2
> Mms: 25 g
> Xmax: 9 mm
> Xmech: 13 mm
> SPL (2.83 v): 88 dB


Nice. That inductance is crazy low. Certainly shouldn't be a limiting factor in how high the MkII will play.


----------



## soundquality4me

rton20s said:


> Nice. That inductance is crazy low. Certainly shouldn't be a limiting factor in how high the MkII will play.



Was waiting for somebody to comment on the results, not sure how to read all the numbers yet


----------



## rton20s

soundquality4me said:


> Was waiting for somebody to comment on the results, not sure how to read all the numbers yet


Left to right, top to bottom.


----------



## Electrodynamic

soundquality4me said:


> Was waiting for somebody to comment on the results, not sure how to read all the numbers yet





rton20s said:


> Left to right, top to bottom.


See for yourself. Do the conversion from uH to mH. Results are via Leap4 measurement system:


----------



## Electrodynamic

The TM65 mkII sample should be here by the end of this week.


----------



## Weigel21

Cool, I should have the money to get me a set within the next couple weeks.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Prototype showed up today. Here is a quick video of how the driver looks and sounds during excursion (keep in mind the pole vent and gap vents were being suffocated while filming):


----------



## Weigel21

Looks good.


----------



## Victor_inox

That looks like capable 6.5" subwoofer. Can`t wait to get my pair.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> That looks like capable 6.5" subwoofer. Can`t wait to get my pair.


It's funny that you mentioned that because during playback of a Blue Man Group CD through the prototype in free-air the driver was moving my hand back and forth a little bit on the big drum hits. The original TM65's were not capable of doing that. I'm actually pretty scared to see / hear the low end that these new versions are going to be capable of in a vehicle door. 

*edit* My apologies for not posting any close-mic frequency responses or anything like that but I left my measurement equipment at my house today but I had to at least take a video of the driver playing 20 Hz after I ran it through its paces. I think the fit and finish of the prototype is really spectacular. Even after all this time with the TM65's it is still very weird to see a 6.5" driver capable of playing up to / above 2k move that far during playback.


----------



## Victor_inox

Best of luck to you, it does seems to be remarkable driver. Now concentrate on production and getting those shipped soon.


----------



## TravisT

wow, this driver does look promising! you'd have to say this would be more of a midrange woofer?


----------



## rton20s

TravisT said:


> wow, this driver does look promising! you'd have to say this would be more of a midrange woofer?


I would say that depends on what you mean by midrange. Often the "midrange" is used for drivers that do not have good bottom end extension and so would not be considered for midbass use. I believe Nick has been pretty clear that his intention with the TM65 MkII is to create a driver with better top end extension without sacrificing midbass performance of the original TM65. It would appear by the information provided to this point that he has accomplished (or exceeded) his goals.


----------



## Lanson

Exactly, also goal of higher Qts so the driver should be even more responsive in a standard door install. Very exciting, actually.




rton20s said:


> I would say that depends on what you mean by midrange. Often the "midrange" is used for drivers that do not have good bottom end extension and so would not be considered for midbass use. I believe Nick has been pretty clear that his intention with the TM65 MkII is to create a driver with better top end extension without sacrificing midbass performance of the original TM65. It would appear by the information provided to this point that he has accomplished (or exceeded) his goals.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Close-mic [nearfield] frequency response measurement on the prototype shows HF extension up to 3,700 Hz. This measurement was performed on-axis. When installed in a vehicle door you will be off-axis and the top end will be smoother and HF extension would extend to around 3,200/3,500 Hz. See below:


----------



## dgage

fourthmeal said:


> Exactly, also goal of higher Qts so the driver should be even more responsive in a standard door install. Very exciting, actually.


I agree. Glad we are talking about something other than some tweeter on eBay.


----------



## Guest

Electrodynamic said:


> Close-mic [nearfield] frequency response measurement on the prototype shows HF extension up to 3,700 Hz. This measurement was performed on-axis. When installed in a vehicle door you will be off-axis and the top end will be smoother and HF extension would extend to around 3,200/3,500 Hz. See below:


That looks really nice sir.....!


----------



## T3mpest

These should pair nicely with the XBL^2 tweeters, I'm finishing my pillars now... Can't wait. Don't think my doors are ready, and I've done quite a lot of deadening, hehe.

Was the slightly larger motor change at the end to push the sensitivity up? Seemed like on the models of the earlier test product it was a bit less sensitive than the older model. That combined with the lowered coil layers compared to the older version might have been a issue for some people if they got volume happy, even it did have a much better top end extension

Your FS and Qts are still on point for the finalized version.. It looks like a good blend of parameters given it's intended design goals for sure.


----------



## Electrodynamic

T3mpest said:


> These should pair nicely with the XBL^2 tweeters, I'm finishing my pillars now... Can't wait. Don't think my doors are ready, and I've done quite a lot of deadening, hehe.
> 
> Was the slightly larger motor change at the end to push the sensitivity up? Seemed like on the models of the earlier test product it was a bit less sensitive than the older model. That combined with the lowered coil layers compared to the older version might have been a issue for some people if they got volume happy, even it did have a much better top end extension
> 
> Your FS and Qts are still on point for the finalized version.. It looks like a good blend of parameters given it's intended design goals for sure.


Thanks for the kind words. 

I just re-read your reply and yes the 30% larger motor was needed to increase sensitivity while also reducing the VC layers. Yes this design is not as sensitive compared to the last version but the low end performance is significantly improved and so is the high frequency extension. Inductance performance is beyond significantly improved. Exact same Xmax and Xmech, higher linearity of every single soft part, custom tooled aluminum basket with integrated rain guard, etc. Add all of that up and you have a significantly improved driver compared to the previous unit. And lets not forget that the TM65 mkII is still a shallow mount 6.5" unit measuring a mere 2.3" deep. It is a very compact and extremely capable unit.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> I just re-read your reply and yes the 30% larger motor was needed to increase sensitivity while also reducing the VC layers. Yes this design is not as sensitive compared to the last version but the low end performance is significantly improved and so is the high frequency extension. Inductance performance is beyond significantly improved. Exact same Xmax and Xmech, higher linearity of every single soft part, custom tooled aluminum basket with integrated rain guard, etc. Add all of that up and you have a significantly improved driver compared to the previous unit. And lets not forget that the TM65 mkII is still a shallow mount 6.5" unit measuring a mere 2.3" deep. It is a very compact and extremely capable unit.


I suggest putting extra effort into labeling/install instructions with regard to the rain shield. A careless or ignorant installer might install the driver upside down and make that rain shield a rain collector.


----------



## Electrodynamic

t3sn4f2 said:


> I suggest putting extra effort into labeling/install instructions with regard to the rain shield. A careless or ignorant installer might install the driver upside down and make that rain shield a rain collector.


If an installer can not figure out which way to install the driver with the rain guard facing the correct direction I don't think the installer should even be connecting speaker wires...or driving to work, haha.


----------



## billw

Nick,

If an installer or diyer has never seen a speaker with an integrated rain guard, he may not even realize what it is. A simple sticker on the magnet with an arrow and "this side up" may save you some headaches down the road.


----------



## PorkCereal

Electrodynamic said:


> If an installer can not figure out which way to install the driver with the rain guard facing the correct direction I don't think the installer should even be connecting speaker wires...or driving to work, haha.


Doesn't mean they don't exist. You give the average installer too much credit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

PorkCereal said:


> Doesn't mean they don't exist. You give the average installer too much credit.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Maybe, but look at who the SI drivers are marketed to. It isn't like these are going to unknown retail shops with staff of questionable skill. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of Nick's sales come through sites like DIYMA where the person doing the install will know, or will be informed how the driver functions and the correct way to install it.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Customers and/or installers need to possess enough knowledge to operate an active crossover if they are using the TM65 mkII's as they are raw drivers and need to be (should be) properly crossed over to the tweeter and also appropriately high-passed and mated to a subwoofer. I *seriously* doubt anyone that can use and operate an active crossover is not going to know which way to install the driver.


----------



## Flinchy

How do I go about ordering a pair w/intl shipping? I've tried [email protected] - just a large backlog of emails or not the best address?


----------



## rob feature

Electrodynamic said:


> If an installer can not figure out which way to install the driver with the rain guard facing the correct direction I don't think the installer should even be connecting speaker wires...or driving to work, haha.


Maybe the offroad crowd will see them as rock guards 

Me keed - no 'this side up' sticker needed. Fun discussion though.


----------



## seafish

Flinchy said:


> How do I go about ordering a pair w/intl shipping? I've tried [email protected] - just a large backlog of emails or not the best address?


I have contacted Nick before using [email protected]


----------



## Flinchy

seafish said:


> I have contacted Nick before using [email protected]




Cheers, tried that too, still no reply. Been a week now. .


----------



## norurb

Got my pair ordered. So excited!


----------



## bigharv

Just ordered a pair. Have a set of v1's that were going in, now I have to decide which to use and which to hoard .


----------



## Weigel21

I'll be missing the initial price, something else came up I wanted to get that wouldn't have been around as long. I should be able to get them before the price jumps above the $99 mark though. At that point, I too will have a set of original and revised versions to decide what to do with. Wait, never mind, I already know, I'll hoard them both.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Flinchy said:


> Cheers, tried that too, still no reply. Been a week now. .


Re-sending emails is better than posting on a forum about not receiving a reply without a name or address, etc. We see newer emails easier and faster than browsing the forums.


----------



## Flinchy

Electrodynamic said:


> Re-sending emails is better than posting on a forum about not receiving a reply without a name or address, etc. We see newer emails easier and faster than browsing the forums.


I did, sent one every 2 days or so. Just feels weird spamming someone's email lol

I did get your reply yesterday though, thanks


----------



## Electrodynamic

Flinchy said:


> I did, sent one every 2 days or so. Just feels weird spamming someone's email lol
> 
> I did get your reply yesterday though, thanks


No worries. Keep "spamming" away. Newest emails get seen quicker. There are less than three people in my company so we can get bogged down from time to time.


----------



## mrvrsick

I'm finally getting a chance to post on this after reading and following for some time. 
This morning around noon PST, I tried to order (4) TM65 and (2) M25, but was unable to add the M25 to cart. 

An email was sent to your contact address, from [email protected], I'll try to call tomorrow as I'm seeing that the prince increase was effective 12AM EST.


----------



## tRidiot

Ok, got a question.... on the pre-order page, it says this:



> *This is a pre-order! The pre-order price above will increase to $99 after 08/12/2016 until production drivers are finished. The TM65 mkII's will NOT ship until September or October of 2016.*


So, I got on last night and tried to order 4, but PayPal was my only payment option. I guess I didn't know this, and had been planning on using my bank card which is associated with a different bank account, which is my "play account" and has my discretionary spending... anyways, long story short, I needed to move some money to my other bank account associated with PayPal. I assumed I'd be able to do so, since the notice says the price would go up *after* 08/12/2016. I took this to mean the price would jump $10 per driver on 08/13/2016. Well, this morning when I go to look at it, the price went up to $149 per driver, not $99.

I don't mind the extra $10 per driver, I knew, having been on vacation out of the country that it was possible I would miss out on the lowest-tier pricing for the pre-order, and I could live with it if it were $99 instead of $89. But it looks like there was/is some kind of glitch and the pricing jumped all the way up to $149. 

Anyways, just checking. I'd like to order, just wish I had another option other than PayPal.... and buying 4 of them today is $240 more than buying 4 of them last night, when the way I read it, it should be possible to buy them at $89 today and $99 (per driver) tomorrow. Either way, if it were $99 today, I'd still buy, but that isn't the case, either.


----------



## Weigel21

Scared me for second there, I opted to buy some other gear that became available, which I was sure wouldn't have lasted long. I figured I'd miss the $89 deal, but with about a month or so of it being at $99 each, I may be able to get some cash saved back up to buy them. I just looked for myself and it says $99 each, so Nick must have corrected it after seeing your post.


----------



## Flyhogz

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tRidiot

Yes, I noticed it was corrected. I placed my order for 4 drivers yesterday.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Weigel21 said:


> Scared me for second there, I opted to buy some other gear that became available, which I was sure wouldn't have lasted long. I figured I'd miss the $89 deal, but with about a month or so of it being at $99 each, I may be able to get some cash saved back up to buy them. I just looked for myself and it says $99 each, *so Nick must have corrected it after seeing your post.*


After he sent me an email.


----------



## RandyJ75

Not to be a Pain In the Ass, but any word on a shipping date yet?

Thanks


----------



## Flyhogz

I'm curious as well. I'm ready to get these bad boys installed. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Weigel21

I've only got enough saved back up for one, kind of hoping it takes a bit longer, as I'm not looking forward to spending an extra $100 for a set. LOL


----------



## Landshark77

sub'd


----------



## Topless Stang

RandyJ75 said:


> Not to be a Pain In the Ass, but any word on a shipping date yet?
> 
> Thanks



Any manuf updates? Almost halfway through sept...and I can't wait to get my hands on these


----------



## norurb

Last Facebook post mentions an October roll-out. Dying to get my hands on them.


----------



## alligatorman

Would these work well in a 2 way setup and is the M25 a good match?

sent from the toilet


----------



## seafish

alligatorman said:


> Would these work well in a 2 way setup and is the M25 a good match?
> 
> sent from the toilet


That is EXACTLY the intent behind their design.


----------



## Electrodynamic

My apologies guys - been away for a while dealing with health issues but I'm back now. Well, I can't access my email for some odd reason but I'll get that sorted out in a day or two. As soon as I get it sorted out I will find out the status of the TM65 mkII's along with the M25's and get back to you via an update in the DIYMA threads. 

Thanks.


----------



## brainbot1

Electrodynamic said:


> My apologies guys - been away for a while dealing with health issues but I'm back now. Well, I can't access my email for some odd reason but I'll get that sorted out in a day or two. As soon as I get it sorted out I will find out the status of the TM65 mkII's along with the M25's and get back to you via an update in the DIYMA threads.
> 
> Thanks.


Health comes first, no need to apologize. Order #1727 put in a few days ago, really excited to get my hands on these


----------



## darkmage1991

Order #1734 placed for 2 

hoping for pretty soon roll out as im without a drivers door speaker as its still stock that didnt like 120rms and instead of buying something to act as a temp just gonna wait it out and install something nice.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Just heard from the build house and all of the motor parts, coils, etc, are finished. We are only waiting on the baskets to be produced and then the build house can start knocking out the production units.


----------



## Topless Stang

Electrodynamic said:


> Just heard from the build house and all of the motor parts, coils, etc, are finished. We are only waiting on the baskets to be produced and then the build house can start knocking out the production units.


That's awesome news...can't be long now!


----------



## Flyhogz

Awesome!


----------



## Electrodynamic

I shouldn't be posting these on here but I thought you guys would like to see what a basket looks like after being freshly plucked from the mold. The build house just got these pictures a few minutes ago so here they are for your enjoyment. Raw aluminum baskets after being plucked from the mold. No smoothing, sanding, holes etc. Just the raw naked basket. If you'll notice the tab for the speaker push terminals is now recessed and there are also two additional basket arms near the terminal block:


----------



## Topless Stang

#SpeakerPorn


----------



## Errldaily

It's very cool seeing the pics of production thanks for sharing these!!! Can't wait to get these in.


----------



## Babs

Cool!!! I'm like a kid at Christmas.. Haven't even been able to fire up those TM65 "MkI's" yet.. Hopefully next day or so. Getting silly close.


----------



## Lanson

That's a very nice casting pull!

This is a really cool driver frame. Like nothing else ever made that I've used or even seen.


----------



## Victor_inox

Topless Stang said:


> #SpeakerPorn


Speaker anatomy I`d say.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Two more pictures of the frame cleaned up:


----------



## Victor_inox

ready for powdercoat?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Yep, ready for powdercoat:


----------



## madcowintucson

I am thinking 4 of these in my vw doors. I wonder how hard they will hit in that application.


----------



## norurb

madcowintucson said:


> I am thinking 4 of these in my vw doors. I wonder how hard they will hit in that application.


I had to reduce the output of my mk1's(only 2) - can't imagine running 4. Do it, let us know your impression of it.


----------



## madcowintucson

Yeah no subs just one in each door. Right now I am running v4a and Dolby atmos and it sounds like I have subs in the car. The factory speakers did deep and it's decent volume but I think with double the excursion or more I could satisfy my taste for bass. If not add a dedicated sub later.


----------



## rton20s

madcowintucson said:


> Yeah no subs just one in each door. Right now *I am running v4a and Dolby atmos* and it sounds like I have subs in the car. The factory speakers did deep and it's decent volume but I think with double the excursion or more I could satisfy my taste for bass. If not add a dedicated sub later.


Care to describe your signal chain on this? I'm curious how you have implemented Atmos in the car.


----------



## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> Yep, ready for powdercoat:


missed the spot!
Seriously though, textured powder will look much better and mask imperfection while glossy shows them.


----------



## rob feature

rton20s said:


> I'm curious how you have implemented Atmos in the car.


That makes 2 of us


----------



## madcowintucson

rton20s said:


> Care to describe your signal chain on this? I'm curious how you have implemented Atmos in the car.




Sure thing.

HTC 10 Or my lg v10 both I have installed v4a and Dolby atmos. Dolby apparently license the atmos name for mobile devices but I think all it really is is some kind of fancy dsp software as I am pretty sure there is some compressor going on in there. There are no atmos certified speaker in my car just the factory 10 speaker system from vw. 

Any how right now I just bluetooh from my Android phone to my Android car stereo until I break down and root my car stereo and figure out how to install v4a and atmos on that lol.

The plan is to run HDMI to optical to a dsp/amp...keeping it simple.


----------



## brainbot1

madcowintucson said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> HTC 10 Or my lg v10 both I have installed v4a and Dolby atmos. Dolby apparently license the atmos name for mobile devices but I think all it really is is some kind of fancy dsp software as I am pretty sure there is some compressor going on in there. There are no atmos certified speaker in my car just the factory 10 speaker system from vw.
> 
> Any how right now I just bluetooh from my Android phone to my Android car stereo until I break down and root my car stereo and figure out how to install v4a and atmos on that lol.
> 
> The plan is to run HDMI to optical to a dsp/amp...keeping it simple.


What surround sound tracks are you playing or are you watching movies in your car? I have some .atm files a dj shared with me from an atmos show he did but I've yet to play any of them. I'm curious if they would work on your set up. One song is like 2 gigs...

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

That was going to be my next question... what is the source material?

I haven't done much research on Atmos, but doesn't the source material need to be mastered for Atmos? Otherwise, I am not sure what the V4A Atmos is actually doing sending stereo signal via bluetooth to your factory system.


----------



## madcowintucson

Google viper 4 Android and Google Dolby atmos for Android.


----------



## rton20s

madcowintucson said:


> Google viper 4 Android and Google Dolby atmos for Android.


I did. Neither that, nor you have answered my question. Dolby Atmos content is limited as is. MUSIC recorded/mastered for Dolby Atmos is even more rare, and I'm not seeing it on track to became very popular. Without the correct mastering and without the key Atmos speakers that provide height cues, I am not sure what good Dolby Atmos is going to do for traditional two channel or even multi-channel audio. 

I suppose the Atmos processing happening in the phone could "upmix" traditional 2 channel to multi-channel Atmos, but then you're sending it to a system that only handles 2 channel stereo over bluetooth. And how is the software deciding how 2 channel should be upmixed?

I guess I just don't get it. BUT, you are the one currently using it. You have the experience. I was hoping you might be able to shed some light on the matter beyond https://www.google.com/. 

Oh, and to keep this even slightly relevant to the original thread, I look forward to the completion of the build out of these baskets in to the first set of MkIIs from the tentative production line.


----------



## cobb2819




----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> missed the spot!
> Seriously though, textured powder will look much better and mask imperfection while glossy shows them.


I had a bad experience with textured powder finished baskets on my very first batch of subwoofers ever (claw basket Mag v1) so there will not be any textured finishes from build houses on my watch.


----------



## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> I had a bad experience with textured powder finished baskets on my very first batch of subwoofers ever (claw basket Mag v1) so there will not be any textured finishes from build houses on my watch.


 If you feel like it ... I`ll just wait for my pair in whatever finish you do.


----------



## Topless Stang

Hopefully the weather didn't do too much damage to you down there Nick!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Baskets are finished! Production will start and be completed by the end of this week. Pictures:

Basket pictures:



















Metal parts (yokes [backplate and pole piece], neo, and washers [top plates]):


----------



## SQLnovice

Thank you Sir.


----------



## Onyx1136

Ooooh, shiny!


----------



## Victor_inox

****, I`ll have an early christmas it seems.


----------



## muzikmanwi

Looks like there coming along nicely.


----------



## RandyJ75

Can't wait!!


----------



## Topless Stang

Can't wait...appreciate the update since Facebook saw fit to ban me for a nude pic violation for a pic that had no nudity lol


----------



## soundquality4me

Topless Stang said:


> Can't wait...appreciate the update since Facebook saw fit to ban me for a nude pic violation for a pic that had no nudity lol


It was for the topless stang wasn't it?

PS: Thanks for the update, they look beautiful


----------



## tRidiot

Topless Stang said:


> Can't wait...appreciate the update since Facebook saw fit to ban me for a nude pic violation for a pic that had no nudity lol



Good to see this, as I abstain from Facebook, as well.


----------



## Electrodynamic

More progress pictures:

Motors:









Motors, baskets, terminals:









Coil/spider assembly's in the drivers:


----------



## norurb

Gorgeous!


----------



## 1fishman

Boy that looks like a LOT of speaker to be in a 2.3" profile, Nice!


----------



## soundquality4me

If anybody can make an extra mounting bracket for this i'll buy


----------



## bbfoto

Looks great, Nick! Just curious, do these go through any QC testing before leaving the factory?


----------



## Electrodynamic

bbfoto said:


> Looks great, Nick! Just curious, do these go through any QC testing before leaving the factory?


Yes. They are tested at the factory and they are tested again by me personally before they are shipped out.


----------



## Electrodynamic




----------



## Electrodynamic

Note that these TM65 mkII speakers will be shipped with supplied screws. If you do not use the supplied screws to install the speaker(s) you will immediately void the warranty. Our warranty will be edited to indicate the latter in the next few days. Both the screws and the surround dimensions are specifically chosen to not interfere with each other. If you choose to use your own, larger, screw it could possibly damage the surround so we HIGHLY recommend using the supplied metric cap head screws.


----------



## tRidiot

Well that's interesting. Never heard of that, but I suppose I can see some instances where it could apply. I can't see the pic you posted at work, so I'm still in the dark.

Can we send you a couple bucks to include a few extra screws for some of us who might try these in a few different applications and have a propensity to "misplace" things? lol


----------



## nineball76

Electrodynamic said:


> Note that these TM65 mkII speakers will be shipped with supplied screws. If you do not use the supplied screws to install the speaker(s) you will immediately void the warranty. Our warranty will be edited to indicate the latter in the next few days. Both the screws and the surround dimensions are specifically chosen to not interfere with each other. If you choose to use your own, larger, screw it could possibly damage the surround so we HIGHLY recommend using the supplied metric cap head screws.


Well that's a disappointment. I only use machine screws with threaded inserts.


Edit: oh metric? Are they machine screws or coarse thread wood screws?


----------



## Victor_inox

nineball76 said:


> Well that's a disappointment. I only use machine screws with threaded inserts.
> 
> 
> Edit: oh metric? Are they machine screws or coarse thread wood screws?


most likely same kind as his tweeters shipped with coarse thread wood screws.


How machine screws with same kind of head can damage surrounds is a question on it`s own. Perhaps specifying that damaged surrounds around screw holes will void warranty is strong enough deterrent for people using drywall screws.
It`s obviously up to Nick how to word warranty he will be covering, just my .2c

P.S. drivers looks bad ass on those pictures


----------



## nineball76

Well how much extra could it cost to send 2 sets of screws? One set of coarse thread for wood and a set of machine 8-32?


----------



## bbfoto

Nick, I wouldn't mind paying a little bit extra for High-Quality Stainless Steel Screws, and I would definitely want the option to have either coarse thread wood screws or 8-32 machine threads.

I just wouldn't want to be forced (under warranty terms) into using the included screws if they are going to be lower quality, non-stainless steel ones, and without the option for wood or machine threads.

How about just including language in the TM65 MKII warranty stating that SI will not cover any damage to the speaker that is obviously caused by "tweaking" the surround at the mounting points by using inappropriate screws?

Immediately upon Opening the TM65 MKII Box there could be a very simple business card size paper saying "THANK YOU for purchasing Stereo Integrity TM65 MKII Speakers..." which ALSO has a Bold "CAUTION NOTE" that states the Warranty Policy regarding the mounting screw/surround damage. 

Nothing fancy, just something made with a simple Text Document program that would be easy to print on common 8.5"x11" paper with an ink jet or laser printer, and that would net around 10 or 12 business card size notes per page. I can make this up in Word Doc format or whatever you use if you want to send me the text.

I realize that the cap or head diameter of the screw and the shaft diameter is important as to not "catch" on the surround, but every install is different, and there is no "one size fits all" screw that will work for everybody, including the screw length. Just my .02c


Also, thanks for your reply regarding QC testing. I realize that my question was very general, but would you mind expanding on what exactly and/or how each speaker is tested? I'm genuinely curious and interested, and am in no way "fishing" for argumentative reasons. I'm just curious as to what "the standard" QC tests are for most speaker manufacturers?

Thanks again! REALLY looking forward to getting these.


----------



## rob feature

Yeah, as someone who plans to buy a set somewhere down the road, that sort of thing would certainly sway the decision if I were considering another driver at the same time. Maybe just require a specific type & size of head or washer? Maybe ship machine screws as well as was mentioned before? The screws that came with the M25 just happened to work for me, but I probably wouldn't want to use a wood screw in a woofer in a door. Put me in the machine screw category.


----------



## Onyx1136

Or you guys could wait till you get your speakers, then take the screws down to Lowes and find the exact same size fastener, just in machine thread instead of coarse thread wood screw. That's what I'll b doing.


----------



## 1fishman

Onyx1136 said:


> Or you guys could wait till you get your speakers, then take the screws down to Lowes and find the exact same size fastener, just in machine thread instead of coarse thread wood screw. That's what I'll b doing.


This ^^^


----------



## nineball76

Onyx1136 said:


> Or you guys could wait till you get your speakers, then take the screws down to Lowes and find the exact same size fastener, just in machine thread instead of coarse thread wood screw. That's what I'll b doing.


Guess nobody would think of that. Except that Nick stated if we don't use the screws he provides, it voids the warranty. That's where all this came from.


----------



## Onyx1136

nineball76 said:


> Guess nobody would think of that. Except that Nick stated if we don't use the screws he provides, it voids the warranty. That's where all this came from.


I know exactly where it all came from. I'm just amazed to think that you believe that if u change out the screws for one of an identical size but with a different thread pitch that he's somehow going to be able to divine that information. The point of his insisting that it be the screws he provides is to prevent people from destroying the surround with screw heads that don't fit the mounting hole. I'm willing to bet that he won't have any problem providing warranty service so long as you don't do that. He's not looking for a random excuse to not provide warranty service, he's just protecting himself against people's inevitable stupidity.


----------



## bbfoto

Didn't want to start a clusterfrack regarding the mounting screws, just trying think of a more logical way to achieve what Nick wants that keeps both parties happy.

Trust me, this mounting screw dealio isn't gonna keep me from enjoying these awesome speakers.  Thinking back and showing my age, this was also a bit of a problem way back when with the Adire Koda 6 mids.


----------



## T3mpest

bbfoto said:


> Didn't want to start a clusterfrack regarding the mounting screws, just trying think of a more logical way to achieve what Nick wants that keeps both parties happy.
> 
> Trust me, this mounting screw dealio isn't gonna keep me from enjoying these awesome speakers.  Thinking back and showing my age, this was also a bit of a problem way back when with the Adire Koda 6 mids.


Your at least in your late 20's early 30's  I remember those when I really first started getting big into audio


----------



## RRizz

I agree that wording it as "damage to surround by mounting screws" or something of the like would be better worded than "you must use the screws I provide". To think that said screw would work for everyones install is ridiculous. I'm sure Nick realizes that, and just couldn't find the right way to put it out there. As victor stated, you pick yourself up some machine screws with similar heads, problem solved, Unless Nick is coming to your house for dinner, and wants to see the speakers installed in your project prior to removing them to return for warranty work. (I'd be ok with that, but we'd have to go out to dinner, My old lady cant cook to save her life, and I'm too busy!)


----------



## tRidiot

In for the followup.

:lurk:


----------



## Electrodynamic

It might have come off the wrong way but I am still sticking by what I said about warranty void if different screws are used and here is why:

The provided screws fit exactly in place without touching the surround at all. If anyone uses a different screw/bolt/etc with a larger diameter head/flange it could (will) twist the surround and cause the surround to come un-glued from the frame. 

Metric M4 hex head bits are commonly available at any local hardware store that can/will assist you in using the supplied bolts to mount the drivers. 

Any/all customers can use whatever screws/bolts/etc *at their own risk* to mount their drivers but note that I am *strongly* suggesting and recommending to use the supplied hardware to mount the TM65 mkII's which will help to avoid any damaged surrounds from the rubber twisting during installation.

In closing simply be careful and think out your installation process. Sending the drivers back because you tried using lag bolts to install the drivers [massive exaggeration] and you ended up breaking the basket and ruining the surround glue joint only causes more time, stress, and money [for shipping and the repair] in the end.  

Few cases but still - I have had a few drivers sent back of all sizes (18" down to 6.5") with attempts at "warranty" when it was clearly the users fault for using a massive headed screw that twisted the surround. I am only trying to avoid the latter and also caution you guys to think it through. If you use machine screws instead of coarse thread screws by all means use macine screws but make sure they have the same size cap head so the screw/bolt does not harm the surround.


----------



## SQLnovice

Will comply as it's part of the warranty. 
I was wondering if you could make these screws available for purchase on your site, just in case we want to pick up a few to have as extra. If no, that's okay too. Thanks 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## dawaro

Nick do you have an idea when you will start taking orders again?


----------



## Topless Stang

Electrodynamic said:


> Note that these TM65 mkII speakers will be shipped with supplied screws. If you do not use the supplied screws to install the speaker(s) you will immediately void the warranty. Our warranty will be edited to indicate the latter in the next few days. Both the screws and the surround dimensions are specifically chosen to not interfere with each other. If you choose to use your own, larger, screw it could possibly damage the surround so we HIGHLY recommend using the supplied metric cap head screws.


Im pretty sure this is due to the mkI I sent im for repair


----------



## bbfoto

Well, I know that the mounting screws aren't going to be an issue for me, and most people here on DIYMA will have the common sense to mount these drivers without issues. 

Yes, there are always a few who are either inexperienced and/or just very excited and in a rush to get the speakers installed, so they use whatever screws they have on hand...which may or may not cause a problem. So I fully understand Nick's frustration and I think it is great that Stereo Integrity has decided to include at least one type of proper mounting screws.

I know that I asked earlier, but I didn't see an answer to my question of, "Are the supplied screws High-Quality, Stainless Steel parts?" And Nick, do you mind providing the source and Part# for your warranty-approved screws that you are including so that we can obtain more if needed? I don't think that you should be bothered as being a "screw supplier" unless that is something that you really wish to take on, but I would guess that it's probably not worth your time or energy.

So just in light of the terms of the warranty, it would be great if Stereo Integrity would provide its customers with Links to Manufacturers and Part #'s for BOTH Machine Screws and Course Thread Screws that are "Warranty Approved" for use to mount the TM65 MK II drivers. Again, I would suggest that these be High-Quality Stainless Steel screws from a quality source such as Fastenal, McMaster-Carr, etc and not sub-standard "cheapies".

Most screws that have a given Head Diameter & Design + Size and Thread Pitch will be available in a variety of LENGTHS. If I understand correctly, the sole issue with the screw type that is used is the *Head Diameter* where it contacts the speaker's mounting flange. Some installers may need shorter or longer lengths and/or machine screws as opposed to course-thread wood screws for their given install, including professional shops that will want and need to supply warranty support for their customers.

What I don't quite understand is, since this screw head/surround contact issue has obviously been a problem in more than one of Stereo Integrity's drivers in the past, why did SI not design the mounting holes on the TM65 MK II with slightly raised mounting beds so that it would be impossible for the screw heads to come in contact with the surround on the basket flange?

IMO, the speaker baskets should incorporate these small, circular raised platforms or "stand-offs" that nestle within the half-round cutouts in the surround where the mounting screws go, so that the mounting points are raised above the surface level of the surround.

The surround twisting/tearing issue, and returns and repairs, whether under warranty or not, could have easily been reduced to nil by incorporating this design element in the basket/flange casting and would only raise the mounting points and overall mounting screw heights just 1.5mm-2mm. 

As always, my pessimistic 2 cents and thoughts for future iterations. I know that these will be simply amazing drivers that very few others could match in this size and format, and most here will enjoy them without a problem if just a bit of common sense is employed when mounting them.


----------



## Electrodynamic

bbfoto said:


> Well, I know that the mounting screws aren't going to be an issue for me, and most people here on DIYMA will have the common sense to mount these drivers without issues.
> 
> Yes, there are always a few who are either inexperienced and/or just very excited and in a rush to get the speakers installed, so they use whatever screws they have on hand...which may or may not cause a problem. So I fully understand Nick's frustration and I think it is great that Stereo Integrity has decided to include at least one type of proper mounting screws.
> 
> I know that I asked earlier, but I didn't see an answer to my question of, "Are the supplied screws High-Quality, Stainless Steel parts?" And Nick, do you mind providing the source and Part# for your warranty-approved screws that you are including so that we can obtain more if needed? I don't think that you should be bothered as being a "screw supplier" unless that is something that you really wish to take on, but I would guess that it's probably not worth your time or energy.
> 
> So just in light of the terms of the warranty, it would be great if Stereo Integrity would provide its customers with Links to Manufacturers and Part #'s for BOTH Machine Screws and Course Thread Screws that are "Warranty Approved" for use to mount the TM65 MK II drivers. Again, I would suggest that these be High-Quality Stainless Steel screws from a quality source such as Fastenal, McMaster-Carr, etc and not sub-standard "cheapies".
> 
> Most screws that have a given Head Diameter & Design + Size and Thread Pitch will be available in a variety of LENGTHS. If I understand correctly, the sole issue with the screw type that is used is the *Head Diameter* where it contacts the speaker's mounting flange. Some installers may need shorter or longer lengths and/or machine screws as opposed to course-thread wood screws for their given install, including professional shops that will want and need to supply warranty support for their customers.
> 
> What I don't quite understand is, since this screw head/surround contact issue has obviously been a problem in more than one of Stereo Integrity's drivers in the past, why did SI not design the mounting holes on the TM65 MK II with slightly raised mounting beds so that it would be impossible for the screw heads to come in contact with the surround on the basket flange?
> 
> IMO, the speaker baskets should incorporate these small, circular raised platforms or "stand-offs" that nestle within the half-round cutouts in the surround where the mounting screws go, so that the mounting points are raised above the surface level of the surround.
> 
> The surround twisting/tearing issue, and returns and repairs, whether under warranty or not, could have easily been reduced to nil by incorporating this design element in the basket/flange casting and would only raise the mounting points and overall mounting screw heights just 1.5mm-2mm.
> 
> As always, my pessimistic 2 cents and thoughts for future iterations. I know that these will be simply amazing drivers that very few others could match in this size and format, and most here will enjoy them without a problem if just a bit of common sense is employed when mounting them.


Please see my previous post. I am not going to be a screw supplier.  If you choose to use different screws be sure that they mate up to the same OD as the supplied screws. I am not (did not) design a basket and surround with oversized openings to meet every possible screw head that someone may or may not use. Doing the latter is next to impossible. What I did do, however, is provide screws to use to mount the driver. You should use the supplied screws. 

But even if you use screws/bolts with larger head OD's be sure to use plastic washers so the screw head rotates on the plastic washer and does not directly twist/rotate on the rubber surround. Again, just use your head - the drivers are not indescructable and they can be damaged. You can not set them on fire with lighter fluid and a flame and then wonder why you don't have a working speaker after the flames have gone out.


----------



## Victor_inox

I started using spacers with flange like this









Ace hardware has plenty of different sizes. impossible to scratch/dent anything.


----------



## beak81champ

dawaro said:


> Nick do you have an idea when you will start taking orders again?


I would like to know as well, thanks!


----------



## darkmage1991

anymore news on expected ship date?


----------



## Electrodynamic

beak81champ said:


> I would like to know as well, thanks!


No date set in stone yet but I will begin taking regular orders after the pre-ordered drivers are shipped out. As of right now the production drivers are not here so it will be another 30 days until they reach us and then shipped out. Early 2017 for regular ordering to begin on both the TM65 mkII and the M25's.


----------



## Topless Stang

Victor_inox said:


> I started using spacers with flange like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ace hardware has plenty of different sizes. impossible to scratch/dent anything.


any idea of where I could source something like this online? If not can anyone share a source for plastic washers? Googling 'Plastic Washers' yields pages and pages of useless crap.


----------



## Victor_inox

Topless Stang said:


> any idea of where I could source something like this online? If not can anyone share a source for plastic washers? Googling 'Plastic Washers' yields pages and pages of useless crap.


Try for Plastic Flange Bushing
Never seen those online but i`ll tell you what, once I receive my pair of TM65 mkII I`ll find correct size at Ace and buy some for you as well, you pay me whatever they cost at Ace and couple of bucks shipping.


----------



## Topless Stang

Not to stray too far off topic, but I think I found a solution.... which one would you guys recommend? I'm leaning towards the assortment in the first link.

https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Salon-Nylon-Round-Washer-Assortment/dp/B014KMFTT0/ref=pd_sbs_328_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B014KMFTT0&pd_rd_r=66XK8VM23MJP6Y2QHW6X&pd_rd_w=zxrXa&pd_rd_wg=0GRvL&psc=1&refRID=66XK8VM23MJP6Y2QHW6X

or

https://www.amazon.com/Nylon-Washer-Off-White-Nominal-Thickness/dp/B000FN1GI2/ref=sr_1_4?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1480576464&sr=1-4&keywords=%238+nylon+washer

The assortment sizes are shown here..


----------



## Victor_inox

washers should work just as good if you get correct size. Ask Nick or wait for speakers to arrive. diameter of the screw and screw head should do.


----------



## BoomBoomRoom

A welcomed surprised arrived at my doorstep today. An early Christmas present from St. Nick? He mentioned, to my surprise, that I was the first pre-order. I know many are eagerly awaiting these so I wanted to snap some photos to share with everyone since I was lucky enough to get these today. Unfortunately, I will not be able to install these for at least a few weeks, but can't wait to get them in. These are definitely well built and the finish is top notch. My first significant post to this forum and this seems to be a good time to pop my cherry. So, I give you some Friday night speaker porn...


----------



## Victor_inox

I hate you right now.











well not really,  
so not even quick hook up and listen session? :mean:


----------



## piyush7243

Very nice. Top notch quality n looks great 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jscoyne2

now show me a FR


----------



## Electrodynamic

Wow, great quality pictures! Thanks for taking the pictures and letting the forum, and customers, see what they will be getting.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> now show me a FR


Here you go.


----------



## Jscoyne2

Electrodynamic said:


> Here you go.


Do you happen to have mk1 fr available to see?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> Do you happen to have mk1 fr available to see?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


Yes I do. Besides just raw FR with the mkII playing higher, the T/S parameters of the mkII are far better suited for car door installations delivering copious low end extension from the drivers. And Le is significantly lower compared to the first version meaning improved transient response compared to the first version (and the first version was a very good driver).


----------



## norurb

Electrodynamic said:


> (and the first version was a very good driver).


Indeed! Still rocking my Civic at the moment.


----------



## seafish

If one needed to install the Mk2 in a sealed box (such as kick panel or under seat), is there a recommended volume for them or would the mk1 be a better candidate for a sealed install??


----------



## Jscoyne2

seafish said:


> If one needed to install the Mk2 in a sealed box (such as kick panel or under seat), is there a recommended volume for them or would the mk1 be a better candidate for a sealed install??


I remember modeling the tm65s and they fall on their fast in any sealed alignment

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> I remember modeling the tm65s and they fall on their fast in any sealed alignment
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


You might have been modeling the older driver and not the new driver (the driver in this thread). The TM65 mkII has an F3 50 Hz lower than the original driver in the same sized sealed alginment (0.5 ft^3 with an F3 of 74 Hz) used for this reply.


----------



## Electrodynamic

seafish said:


> If one needed to install the Mk2 in a sealed box (such as kick panel or under seat), is there a recommended volume for them or would the mk1 be a better candidate for a sealed install??


Anywhere between 0.25 ft^3 and 0.3 ft^3 if you are shooting for the smallest size box in order to put it under a seat. That will keep you right at / below the 0.9 Qtc alignment with an out-of-car F3 around 76 Hz.


----------



## darkmage1991

BoomBoomRoom said:


> A welcomed surprised arrived at my doorstep today. An early Christmas present from St. Nick? He mentioned, to my surprise, that I was the first pre-order. I know many are eagerly awaiting these so I wanted to snap some photos to share with everyone since I was lucky enough to get these today. Unfortunately, I will not be able to install these for at least a few weeks, but can't wait to get them in. These are definitely well built and the finish is top notch. My first significant post to this forum and this seems to be a good time to pop my cherry. So, I give you some Friday night speaker porn...
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/OpmqQXN.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/z5kruUW.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/0JK3Sg4.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/kCeFag0.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/YB0A0K9.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/E0Snh9A.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/sDbHC4M.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/wNwCIuW.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/lakFUDW.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/Mo1ye3H.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/1Hdrzgf.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/kbkDpYm.jpg


 does this mean pre orders have started shipping? or is this just cause you were the first preorder?


----------



## soundquality4me

norurb said:


> Indeed! Still rocking my Civic at the moment.


Where you at in Orlando? Pm me, the only 2 people rocking these speakers in Orlando ay


----------



## Topless Stang

soundquality4me said:


> Where you at in Orlando? Pm me, the only 2 people rocking these speakers in Orlando ay


Tampa here...proud owner of both mkI & II


----------



## Lanson

These are looking good.

Think they'll fit the super-shallow 07+ Tundra doors?


----------



## Cochese

Well, ****. I guess I'm going to have to take my doors apart again, now.


----------



## Victor_inox

fourthmeal said:


> These are looking good.
> 
> Think they'll fit the super-shallow 07+ Tundra doors?


with spacers they will


----------



## Velozity

@Boom... Did you get tracking info emailed to you when they shipped, or did they just show up? I'd like to know when mine are coming before they get here.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Velozity said:


> @Boom... Did you get tracking info emailed to you when they shipped, or did they just show up? I'd like to know when mine are coming before they get here.


Even though this forum may have members believing that we throw parts up in the air and hope they are speakers when they hit the ground we are fairly capable. You get tracking information when the drivers are shipped. Tracking information is sent to the email address used to place the order.


----------



## tRidiot

He was just asking, man... the guy posted his speakers showed up, it didn't sound like he was expecting them. It's not that big of a deal...


----------



## Velozity

Electrodynamic said:


> Even though this forum may have members believing that we throw parts up in the air and hope they are speakers when they hit the ground we are fairly capable. You get tracking information when the drivers are shipped. Tracking information is sent to the email address used to place the order.


What's with the sarcasm? It was just a question to someone who apparently (judging by his language) got his speakers by surprise.

Thanks for the answer (which is all I needed): "You get tracking information when the drivers are shipped. Tracking information is sent to the email address used to place the order."


----------



## USS Enterprise

Those speakers are absolutely gorgeous. Love the look. Congrats.


----------



## naiku

tRidiot said:


> He was just asking, man... the guy posted his speakers showed up, it didn't sound like he was expecting them. It's not that big of a deal...





Velozity said:


> What's with the sarcasm? It was just a question to someone who apparently (judging by his language) got his speakers by surprise. I'm a paying customer, chill out...


I think you both took what he wrote a little too seriously... it was just a joke. Not like he said "Are you stupid? Of course we sent tracking info!!!"


----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> and the first version was a very good driver.





norurb said:


> Indeed! Still rocking my Civic at the moment.


Same here.. 08 Si Sedan. The mk1 is no slouch. I'm about to go in and do some 1/4" ABS to cover up the big hole in the door behind the CCF/MLV/door card layer to try to stiffen up the space, lessen backwave re-entry, along with a good bit more CLD damping inside and out. It won't be "sealed" of course but more like "leaky sealed". Anxious to see what happens. 

At 63Hz to 350hz the MkI has been rocking pretty good mated to Frog mids and tweets.. Running one 4ohm coil. 6-layer VC so, overbuilt might be the understatement.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Woosah fellas. My last reply was supposed to be light hearted...at least that's how I meant it. Very light and joking. 

Everyone that pre-ordered will get a tracking number from FedEx once their drivers are shipped.     :bigsmilie:


----------



## jriggs

Electrodynamic said:


> Woosah fellas. My last reply was supposed to be light hearted...at least that's how I meant it. Very light and joking.
> 
> Everyone that pre-ordered will get a tracking number from FedEx once their drivers are shipped.     :bigsmilie:


Well sir, that's all that needed to be said.


----------



## Velozity

Electrodynamic said:


> Woosah fellas. My last reply was supposed to be light hearted...at least that's how I meant it. Very light and joking.
> 
> Everyone that pre-ordered will get a tracking number from FedEx once their drivers are shipped.     :bigsmilie:



Woosah indeed. No offense taken then. I swear if I can develop a font that conveys lighthearted meaning I would be a rich dude...

Looking forward to the drivers to pair with the M25 tweets for my 350Z!


----------



## sundownz

These are beautiful drivers. Love em =)


----------



## onebadmonte

sundownz said:


> These are beautiful drivers. Love em =)


Who invited this ^^^ guy? :thumbsup:


----------



## lynchknot

Electrodynamic said:


> Everyone that pre-ordered will get a tracking number from FedEx once their drivers are shipped.     :bigsmilie:


I just got a tracking number from Jacob Fuller from Sundown Audio but I don't recall ordering anything from Sundown. With Sundown being in the same state, are they helping to ship the preorders out?


----------



## Bruneti

Sundown processes the shipping for S.I. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lanson

What's the price point on the next round of these babies?


----------



## PorkCereal

lynchknot said:


> I just got a tracking number from Jacob Fuller from Sundown Audio but I don't recall ordering anything from Sundown. With Sundown being in the same state, are they helping to ship the preorders out?


They share the same building.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## SQLnovice

PorkCereal said:


> They share the same building.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Yes, once the TM65MKII is shipped, it will show as shipped from Sundown in the online tracking. I think this was mentioned by Nick somewhere in this thread.


----------



## tRidiot

Good to know! Looking forward to checking these out!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Yes, we ship from Sundown's building (my office and build room are inside of Sundown's building) so the shipping will show up as if it is coming from Sundown.


----------



## Electrodynamic

fourthmeal said:


> What's the price point on the next round of these babies?


The next round will be what is left from this production run. Future production runs may or may not happen as the build house has informed me of the massive MOQ for the next order which I can not afford. The price listed on our web page is the price of the drivers left over after the pre-orders are shipped out. These are phenomenal performing drivers that are pure sex and I am not cutting my throat on price just to have a "cheap" price anymore. The TM65 mkII's are woth every penny and more of the price listed on the web page.


----------



## Mattppi

Nick

I see the ordering on these is temporarily closed. Is it possible to put myself on a list for a set of the left over run? Id like to get in line now if possible.

Thank you


----------



## Electrodynamic

Mattppi said:


> Nick
> 
> I see the ordering on these is temporarily closed. Is it possible to put myself on a list for a set of the left over run? Id like to get in line now if possible.
> 
> Thank you


Matt, let me get caught up on these extremely few Express drivers (less than 20 pcs , or 10 pairs) and then lets have the remainder of the production run come in and get shipped out. After all of the latter is done I will open up ordering again. And until that time ordering will remain closed.


----------



## Lanson

Yeah at $129 they are an insane bargain, there's no question about it. $159 each to $179 each sounds completely reasonable for what they do and how well they are made. 

Well either way, I don't need any myself at the moment but there's always a build or two floating around that friends and family seem interested in, so I thought I'd check.


----------



## soundstreamer

Nick, your new drivers look awesome! I can't wait till I get mine but I'm late in the preorder so I know I will have to wait a little bit.


----------



## bnae38

Anyone that's received a pair had a chance to run them?

Looking at maybe replacing my V1's with V2's when they're available again. Curious how you're liking them?


----------



## Victor_inox

When I can expect my pair to be delivered? Perhaps I missed my notification email or something.I paid on July 13.


----------



## seafish

FYI--the handful of pairs that were shipped to preorder buyers were the initial batch sent from the build house to SI for inspection. The rest of us need to wait until the main order of assembled speakers arrive from China.


----------



## iroller

got mine


----------



## Victor_inox

seafish said:


> FYI--the handful of pairs that were shipped to preorder buyers were the initial batch sent from the build house to SI for inspection. The rest of us need to wait until the main order of assembled speakers arrive from China.


Thats where I get confused I guess, I thought I`ve got on pre order.


----------



## PorkCereal

I emailed him and only about 10 sets were express mailed, the remaining preorders are still 20 to 45 days out.


----------



## tRidiot

So that's gonna put it, what, 3-4 months beyond initial estimates?

Oh well.


----------



## PorkCereal

Initial estimates were late November early December if i remember. So about 30 days past estimate


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> So that's gonna put it, what, 3-4 months beyond initial estimates?
> 
> Oh well.


30 to 45 days if the container the drivers are in clear customs without any issues. Not 3-4 months.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> When I can expect my pair to be delivered? Perhaps I missed my notification email or something.I paid on July 13.


99%'ish of the pre-orders have not shipped yet. I expressed in less than 10 pairs to ship to the first few people who pre-ordered. The remainder of the drivers are being shipped to us normally via sea freight.


----------



## tRidiot

Electrodynamic said:


> 30 to 45 days if the container the drivers are in clear customs without any issues. Not 3-4 months.





> *This is a pre-order! The pre-order price above will increase to $99 after 08/12/2016 until production drivers are finished. The TM65 mkII's will NOT ship until September or October of 2016.*


I was just making a comment, not bitching, but it WAS accurate.


----------



## Shifting gears

Im interested in a pair. Please email me at [email protected] when u start taking orders again. Thanks.


----------



## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> 99%'ish of the pre-orders have not shipped yet. I expressed in less than 10 pairs to ship to the first few people who pre-ordered. The remainder of the drivers are being shipped to us normally via sea freight.


Thanks for the update.


----------



## Dasyce

Looking forward to see these arrive, along with a review from one of the lucky members who have already received them..


----------



## bdmach1

I would like a pair of these after the pre-orders have been filled and you get caught up. Please email me at [email protected]

Thanks,

Bob


----------



## grinkeeper

how do I order a set of these? What is your website so I can check out other products?


----------



## Jscoyne2

grinkeeper said:


> how do I order a set of these? What is your website so I can check out other products?


Stereointegrity.com

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> I was just making a comment, not bitching, but it WAS accurate.


Captial lettering is key there. "WAS" not "IS".  The quote that you gathered was from a long time ago, not from current time(s). Unfortunately delays happen and delays happened on this production run.


----------



## tRidiot

Electrodynamic said:


> Captial lettering is key there. "WAS" not "IS".  The quote that you gathered was from a long time ago, not from current time(s). Unfortunately delays happen and delays happened on this production run.


Ok, man, whatever you say. lol. :laugh:


----------



## ChrisB

Electrodynamic said:


> Unfortunately delays happen and delays happened on this production run.


Not to mention the fiasco that Customs causes sometimes. It took my employer over six months to get their returned valves released from Customs because they were being dicks about who signed the documentation. Customs didn't even recognize the minority partner as a responsible party...


----------



## Errldaily

ChrisB said:


> Not to mention the fiasco that Customs causes sometimes. It took my employer over six months to get their returned valves released from Customs because they were being dicks about who signed the documentation. Customs didn't even recognize the minority partner as a responsible party...


No kidding my company had a whole shipping container of equipment lost at customs for months and months!!! It can be disastrous 

I'm still excitedly awaiting! Anybody who got the first ten sets have any reviews?


----------



## Jroo

will be looking for a midbass in a future install. Is there anyone who has heard these yet? For any that received these care to share a review?


----------



## lv_v

I'll stir the pot just a bit this evening: any chance for an 8" version?? So many OEM's these days have a 6"x8/9" or 7-9" woofer in the door, it just makes sense.


----------



## onebadmonte

lv_v said:


> I'll stir the pot just a bit this evening: any chance for an 8" version?? So many OEM's these days have a 6"x8/9" or 7-9" woofer in the door, it just makes sense.


No, we'll be lucky if there is a second production run.


----------



## RRizz

Order # 1617 is stoked to get a fedex shipping email. Should have these honeys in my hands tomorrow.


----------



## SR500

Nothing to add about these speakers, but glad to see Stereo Integrity is still around. I bought one of the original 12" SI Magnum D2's back in, what was it, 2002 or 2003 when they came out? That was a great sub, one of my favorites from the time.


----------



## Bdub

RRizz said:


> Order # 1617 is stoked to get a fedex shipping email. Should have these honeys in my hands tomorrow.


Did you get the shipping notice today? I'm #1621 so hopefully I'm not too far behind.


----------



## RRizz

I got it Monday........


----------



## RRizz

Now I gotta get the car out of storage this weekend and swap speakers out...If the snow holds off.


----------



## tRidiot

Just looked back and my invoice was 1674 on August 12th.


----------



## RandyJ75

I am order #1622. Have not heard/seen anything yet.


----------



## bbfoto

RRizz said:


> Order # 1617 is stoked to get a fedex shipping email. Should have these honeys in my hands tomorrow.





Bdub said:


> Did you get the shipping notice today? I'm #1621 so hopefully I'm not too far behind.





RandyJ75 said:


> I am order #1622. Have not heard/seen anything yet.


Hmmm...thanks for posting. Order #SI-1623 here. Would be stoked to get these installed soon.


----------



## brainbot1

I'm 1727, still a ways to go 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## 1fishman

RRizz said:


> Order # 1617 is stoked to get a fedex shipping email. Should have these honeys in my hands tomorrow.


Hum,,, i'm #1616 and haven't heard anything yet. Hopefully i'll hear something soon.


----------



## LaserSVT

Nick! Please get back with me! I have my new set of BM MK IVs installed and am making pods for the M25 tweeters but need to get a pair of the mids.

Or if someone has changed their mind please PM me because I need a pair like RIGHT NOW.


----------



## RRizz

Good luck to you on that, sir. That may be a tall order.


----------



## dgage

Nick just got back from CES and is wiped. He should respond to emails soon.

My understanding is that 99% of the TM65 mkIIs are on their way over in a big boat and haven't arrived yet. Only 10 or so pairs were shipped through international mail and those have already been delivered. Maybe one of those 10 would be willing to sell a pair.

Which by the way, I want a list of those 10 people so we can publicly shame them for not giving us a review yet of the TM65 mkIIs.


----------



## Alrojoca

dgage said:


> Nick just got back from CES and is wiped. He should respond to emails soon.
> 
> My understanding is that 99% of the TM65 mkIIs are on their way over in a big boat and haven't arrived yet. Only 10 or so pairs were shipped through international mail and those have already been delivered. Maybe one of those 10 would be willing to sell a pair.
> 
> Which by the way, I want a list of those 10 people so we can publicly shame them for not giving us a review yet of the TM65 mkIIs.



Maybe it is simply winter and not all 10 pairs have been installed yet


----------



## soundquality4me

I would post a review, but the only thing stopping me is I can't find anybody to make me a speaker baffle/ring out of hdpe for these guys. I said I would pay whatever it would cost or you charged to have them made. 

I just really want to get them in but I want to install them the proper way and have no experience making whats needed for a proper install or any of the tools that would be needed. If anybody can help me out pls let me know either on here or through pm. 

Not sure if I need a backing plate and speaker rings or just an adaptor or what.


----------



## dsquared

I can help you out and anybody else for that matter.
Let me know and we can set something up.


----------



## dgage

If that is what is stopping you, let me know and I can make you a pair. How thick do you need and what does the outside diameter need to be? I can make it out of HDPE plastic as I have a small sheet of 3/4" and 1".


----------



## soundquality4me

Don't really want the hdpe to be to thick because of the excursion of the speaker I'm guessing because of the amount of mid bass, and because its such a shallow speakers I'm sure it won't hit the window at all. Was thinking of 3/8" hdpe. Will pay for whatever, but I'm not sure but I think people are finding some at target. So only other thing you need from me is to know the outside diameter you said? How do I figure this out? Measuring the speaker or do I have to take my door apart for this?

Unless of course you guys would think the 1/2" has an advantage over the 3/8"


----------



## bbfoto

soundquality4me said:


> Don't really want the hdpe to be to thick because of the excursion of the speaker I'm guessing because of the amount of mid bass, and because its such a shallow speakers I'm sure it won't hit the window at all. Was thinking of 3/8" hdpe. Will pay for whatever, but I'm not sure but I think people are finding some at target. So only other thing you need from me is to know the outside diameter you said? How do I figure this out? Measuring the speaker or do I have to take my door apart for this?


What Year, Make, Model, and Trim Level is your vehicle. Most of the time that will give us the specs we need to produce the correct adapter rings.


----------



## soundquality4me

bbfoto said:


> What Year, Make, Model, and Trim Level is your vehicle. Most of the time that will give us the specs we need to produce the correct adapter rings.


It's for my 2009 Honda Accord Coupe baseline trim level I think is called the LX? The one without any added speakers or anything

Big think to note is that it has that dip in the metal on the door where the speaker cutout is, so thats why i'm unsure if I need an adaptor or if I should put something else there to cover that gap. I know it can't be to good?

You can kind of see what I'm talking about here behind the adaptor (in the bottom part of the speaker) https://postimg.org/image/94xdlkit9/


----------



## tRidiot

I can't get that picture to load here at work, but between a flat adapater and some mild door contours, you can usually fill that gap with some butyl rope. I've done it multiple times and it works very well.


----------



## bbfoto

^And I would also make the adapter rings out of something a bit stiffer or more rigid than HDPE if you need them to be less than 3/8" thick...I'd use PVC or Plexiglass sheet.


----------



## tRidiot

bbfoto said:


> ^And I would also make the adapter rings out of something a bit stiffer or more rigid than HDPE if you need them to be less than 3/8" thick...I'd use PVC or Plexiglass sheet.


I dunno, if they're screwed to the door, sandwiched between the speaker basket and the door metal, I don't think they'd be a problem...


----------



## soundquality4me

Doesn't necessarily have to be 3/8" thick I was just worried about the excursion of this speaker hitting the grill mesh on the door card

edit: and are you saying that I definitely will need an adaptor plate for the install? Or are just the speaker rings enough?


----------



## dgage

Actually, I think tRidiot and I are wondering why you need an adaptor plate/ring/baffle at all. I see rings used mostly to get a little more install depth for deeper speakers or an adapter plate when the OEM speaker mount has a weird shape. But if you're just planning for a speaker ring with the outer dimensions of the driver and inner dimensions of the driver cutout I have to ask why even add that complexity?


----------



## soundquality4me

To start I'm completely new to installing speakers, have done everything else.

I was just thinking that you wanted a completely flat and sturdy surface to mount the speakers to, not to sure how flat a speaker cutout is in a car. I just thought that was what you were "supposed to do" to get the most out of the speaker and have the best results? Am i wrong with this thinking? Break it down for me. I'm just trying to get it installed the right way if you can respect that


----------



## dsquared

A little gasketing material which was already suggested and new holes that line up with the MKs....Hurry up we all want to know how they sound....)


----------



## edouble101

I've used cutting board material that can be bought anywhere, works great.

Once I get my mids I'll make mounting rings for anybody that needs them, PM me.


----------



## lv_v

Can we take this to PM's or install forum??


----------



## soundquality4me

So I just got done taking the doors off trying to get a listening session in for you guys, (broke my old speaker rings for my alpine type r's in the process =( Any way going to install these speakers came with a lot of disappointment. For one this magnet is SUPER strong, so much so that it was sticking to the frame whenever trying to get it through the speaker cutout of my car. This is where the disappointment came. 

The speaker won't fit through the speaker cutout for my car at all, and my car is made for 6.5" speakers (09 accord). I think its due to rain guard and huge terminals that were used for this speaker. My speaker ring won't even fit around the huge rain guard. So now I'm just sitting here stuck with my door off not really sure where to go from here. Do I start dremmeling the metal on my door frame apart just so the speakers will fit through the whole (which I don't really want to do since my car is kind of newer), or just cut my losses and realize that I won't ever get these speakers in. Will try to post some pictures if you can tell what I mean.

https://i.imgsafe.org/3d7625da3d.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/3d77e7ed5a.jpg


----------



## bnae38

Will mounting rings work?

Scroll up.


----------



## RRizz

If time allows, will probably be pulling my TM65's out tomorrow, and getting the TM65 mk2's installed..... Im hoping, anyway...


----------



## soundquality4me

bnae38 said:


> Will mounting rings work?
> 
> Scroll up.


The mounting rings would have to be as big as the rain guard which is like 2 or 3 inches. That wouldn't work either as it would hit the speaker grill on the door card


----------



## Victor_inox

soundquality4me said:


> So I just got done taking the doors off trying to get a listening session in for you guys, (broke my old speaker rings for my alpine type r's in the process =( Any way going to install these speakers came with a lot of disappointment. For one this magnet is SUPER strong, so much so that it was sticking to the frame whenever trying to get it through the speaker cutout of my car. This is where the disappointment came.
> 
> The speaker won't fit through the speaker cutout for my car at all, and my car is made for 6.5" speakers (09 accord). I think its due to rain guard and huge terminals that were used for this speaker. My speaker ring won't even fit around the huge rain guard. So now I'm just sitting here stuck with my door off not really sure where to go from here. Do I start dremmeling the metal on my door frame apart just so the speakers will fit through the whole (which I don't really want to do since my car is kind of newer), or just cut my losses and realize that I won't ever get these speakers in. Will try to post some pictures if you can tell what I mean.
> 
> https://i.imgsafe.org/3d7625da3d.jpg
> https://i.imgsafe.org/3d77e7ed5a.jpg


I`d take down speaker terminals before dremeling car door metal away.
Can`t tell for sure until my pair is delivered.


----------



## soundquality4me

Victor_inox said:


> I`d take down speaker terminals before dremeling car door metal away.
> Can`t tell for sure until my pair is delivered.



Look at my second picture on my speaker cutout I can actually fit the terminals on that bottom cutout there. It's just that the rain guard and everything is so close to the edge of the speaker that you can't fit it in the hole


----------



## Victor_inox

soundquality4me said:


> Look at my second picture on my speaker cutout I can actually fit the terminals on that bottom cutout there. It's just that the rain guard and everything is so close to the edge of the speaker that you can't fit it in the hole


 I`d make HDPE spacer with hole big enough to fit the speaker. then use butyl rope to seal spacer to door panel. Or modeling clay.


----------



## soundquality4me

I put it in my last post.

The size of the spacer that would be needed would be massive (as big as the rain guard), no way I would be able to get my door card back on


----------



## dgage

soundquality4me said:


> I put it in my last post.
> 
> The size of the spacer that would be needed would be massive (as big as the rain guard), no way I would be able to get my door card back on


I'll buy your TM65 MK IIs off of you and/or trade an unused pair of TM65 MK Is (plus cash).


----------



## Victor_inox

soundquality4me said:


> I put it in my last post.
> 
> The size of the spacer that would be needed would be massive (as big as the rain guard), no way I would be able to get my door card back on


rain guard is that bump on the door metal? Sorry your pictures kinda sucks.


----------



## dgage

Victor_inox said:


> rain guard is that bump on the door metal? Sorry your pictures kinda sucks.


He's referring to the thick rain guard on the TM-65 MK IIs as seen in the lower left picture (TM65 mkII Woofer | Stereo Integrity). Would definitely require some metal cutting of the door.

TM65 mkII Woofer | Stereo Integrity


----------



## dcfis

soundquality4me said:


> So I just got done taking the doors off trying to get a listening session in for you guys, (broke my old speaker rings for my alpine type r's in the process =( Any way going to install these speakers came with a lot of disappointment. For one this magnet is SUPER strong, so much so that it was sticking to the frame whenever trying to get it through the speaker cutout of my car. This is where the disappointment came.
> 
> The speaker won't fit through the speaker cutout for my car at all, and my car is made for 6.5" speakers (09 accord). I think its due to rain guard and huge terminals that were used for this speaker. My speaker ring won't even fit around the huge rain guard. So now I'm just sitting here stuck with my door off not really sure where to go from here. Do I start dremmeling the metal on my door frame apart just so the speakers will fit through the whole (which I don't really want to do since my car is kind of newer), or just cut my losses and realize that I won't ever get these speakers in. Will try to post some pictures if you can tell what I mean.
> 
> https://i.imgsafe.org/3d7625da3d.jpg
> https://i.imgsafe.org/3d77e7ed5a.jpg



Ive got the same speaker cutouts in my '15 accord. All you have to do is trim a tiny bit off those bottom ears (I primered the bare metal to prevent any rust)and it will fit with a 3/4" Spacer. Buy a PVC shelf from Lowes and you are golden. There is plenty of room for those speakers.


----------



## SQram

Victor_inox said:


> rain guard is that bump on the door metal? Sorry your pictures kinda sucks.




Pictures tell the story, it's pretty obvious. You need to scroll back and have a look at the 3D model.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

dgage said:


> He's referring to the thick rain guard on the TM-65 MK IIs as seen in the lower left picture (TM65 mkII Woofer | Stereo Integrity). Would definitely require some metal cutting of the door.
> 
> TM65 mkII Woofer | Stereo Integrity


Ohh I see.


----------



## Victor_inox

dcfis said:


> Ive got the same speaker cutouts in my '15 accord. All you have to do is trim a tiny bit off those bottom ears (I primered the bare metal to prevent any rust)and it will fit with a 3/4" Spacer. Buy a PVC shelf from Lowes and you are golden. There is plenty of room for those speakers.


Can you snap some pictures to help everyone better understand what you talking about?


----------



## dcfis

Sure, here is the only pic I have Before the trim ring is screwed on


















Here is what the pros here at SIS did. A jigsaw with a fine sheetmetal blade makes quick work of the doormetal.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...2012-accord-coupe-mosconi-illusion-audio.html


----------



## Victor_inox

dcfis said:


> Sure, here is the only pic I have Before the trim ring is screwed on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what the pros here at SIS did. A jigsaw with a fine sheetmetal blade makes quick work of the doormetal.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...2012-accord-coupe-mosconi-illusion-audio.html


 Easy enough, thank you!


----------



## dgage

I agree a jigsaw with short and fine metal blade would work great. If you don't have a jigsaw, here's a handy and inexpensive tool to "nibble" away metal. Not sure if you could find it locally. I did a search at Lowes, HD, and Northem Tool but didn't find them.

https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Plate...8&qid=1485067038&sr=8-1&keywords=Hand+nibbler


----------



## dcfis

Um walmart stocks a $19 jigsaw


----------



## dgage

dcfis said:


> Um walmart stocks a $19 jigsaw


Friends don't let friends buy crappy tools. J/K. Never even thought of it as my days of buying crappy tools and spending more in the long run replacing those tools are way behind me. But others may be at different stages of that journey so good point and thanks for sharing.


----------



## dcfis

IDK I have a triple hand me down B&D that wont die


----------



## soundquality4me

dgage said:


> I agree a jigsaw with short and fine metal blade would work great. If you don't have a jigsaw, here's a handy and inexpensive tool to "nibble" away metal. Not sure if you could find it locally. I did a search at Lowes, HD, and Northem Tool but didn't find them.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Plate...8&qid=1485067038&sr=8-1&keywords=Hand+nibbler


I doubt this tool would be able to cut through the metal door frame, might have to go out and buy a jigsaw and go that route
edit: thank you or that suggestion though


----------



## RRizz

The rain guard and terminals are within the speakers cutout diameter of 143mm. the majority of vehicles that came with 6.5" drivers should not have any issues with fitment.
If your vehicle came with 5.25" drivers, then you gotta get to cuttin'


----------



## RRizz

So, I got mine installed today, and I'm smellin what soundquality4me is cookin'.. lol
If your car has thick spacers from the factory, there is a chance that the hole in the sheet metal is smaller than the opening on the spacer, leading to the rain guard hitting said metal. fortunately for me, 6x9's were an option in my car, so I had to turn them just so to get them to drop in nicely. (rain guard is not 100 percent on top, but is of no concern to me, my car rarely sees rain)
Anyway, I got them in, and since my old set was running at 8 ohms, now were at 4, I had to make a few adjustments. I did this by ear, I did not get REW out for measurements, ect
I'll do that after I get a few good hours on them.
First impressions I cant print here, there was an obscenity or two in there! Second impressions were... Awesome. Solid, strong midbass from these babies. Very impressive.
I hope your doors are solid. Tracks with heavy string bass...very slight blooming, but ill fix that when I re-tune with REW later. I listened at mid-volume for quite a while, going through all my SQ go-to tunes, couldn't find much fault in them. I was grinning slightly.
Then I got a little more aggressive..Threw some pitbull at them, and twisted the knob..They kept their composure extremely well. I wasn't finished yet...Popped in some Trapt (headstrong) Full tilt. Damn. these things kick A$$. Now I'm thoroughly impressed.
I liked version 1, I LOVE version 2.
Before I came here, I dropped Nick at SI an email, and let him know I'm down for at LEAST one more pair.
Another home run from Stereo Integrity, without a doubt.


----------



## Theslaking

The only problem I have with you giving us your assessment is I don't have mine yet to verify it 

You review is very encouraging.


----------



## soundstreamer

RRizz said:


> So, I got mine installed today, and I'm smellin what soundquality4me is cookin'.. lol
> If your car has thick spacers from the factory, there is a chance that the hole in the sheet metal is smaller than the opening on the spacer, leading to the rain guard hitting said metal.


I'm afraid I might run into the same problem as my version 1 just barely fit in the factory space. My car has a factory 5x7 so hopefully it will fit.

Glad to hear you really like them. I can't wait to get mine and install them.


----------



## Alrojoca

Walmart has a B&D jigsaw for $27 and an x brand for $20.

Harbor Freight has 3.2 amp one for $23 and with a 20% coupon discount will be under $19 and maybe get a free flash light or DMM having the correct coupons.

I would not buy a $150 jigsaw for a 4 time (use (added edited) or less per year


----------



## RRizz

If you have to chew through your door panel, you're gonna want these in there.


----------



## Alrojoca

Pretty much any $100 plus driver will need a minimum of 5" diameter to fit. It's the trade, in order to have more midbass.

I remember what worked great for me was, one of those blank cd plastic cases, 25 or 50 pack. Using that to trace the line and cut a nice round circle.


----------



## dawaro

soundquality4me said:


> I doubt this tool would be able to cut through the metal door frame, might have to go out and buy a jigsaw and go that route
> edit: thank you or that suggestion though


Do you have access to an air compressor?

This offers much more control than any jig saw:
High Speed Metal Air Saw

You could also try this:
16 Gauge Air Nibbler


----------



## Electrodynamic

RRizz said:


> So, I got mine installed today, and I'm smellin what soundquality4me is cookin'.. lol
> If your car has thick spacers from the factory, there is a chance that the hole in the sheet metal is smaller than the opening on the spacer, leading to the rain guard hitting said metal. fortunately for me, 6x9's were an option in my car, so I had to turn them just so to get them to drop in nicely. (rain guard is not 100 percent on top, but is of no concern to me, my car rarely sees rain)
> Anyway, I got them in, and since my old set was running at 8 ohms, now were at 4, I had to make a few adjustments. I did this by ear, I did not get REW out for measurements, ect
> I'll do that after I get a few good hours on them.
> First impressions I cant print here, there was an obscenity or two in there! Second impressions were... Awesome. Solid, strong midbass from these babies. Very impressive.
> I hope your doors are solid. Tracks with heavy string bass...very slight blooming, but ill fix that when I re-tune with REW later. I listened at mid-volume for quite a while, going through all my SQ go-to tunes, couldn't find much fault in them. I was grinning slightly.
> Then I got a little more aggressive..Threw some pitbull at them, and twisted the knob..They kept their composure extremely well. I wasn't finished yet...Popped in some Trapt (headstrong) Full tilt. Damn. these things kick A$$. Now I'm thoroughly impressed.
> I liked version 1, I LOVE version 2.
> Before I came here, I dropped Nick at SI an email, and let him know I'm down for at LEAST one more pair.
> Another home run from Stereo Integrity, without a doubt.


Good to hear you got them installed and that you enjoyed your first listening session with the TM65 mkII's. Also thanks for the quick email - I really appreciate it. I hardly ever hear any impressions or reviews via email so it was nice to receive your email earlier today. 

The midbass in particular is where you [everyone] will see a significant improvement / more output out of the mkII compared to the OG TM65. Not that the original TM65 was a slouch in the midbass department at all but the TM65 mkII's parameters were more focused on an IB / car door installation with the Qts being as close to a 0.707 as possible because when you use a driver in an IB setup the Qts of the driver becomes your Qtc alignment. Compared to the OG TM65 the new TM65 mkII digs down much lower, harder, and faster [thanks to its superbly low inductance] while also playing higher than the original TM65. 

Letting you guys know ahead of time - I am keeping 10 TM65 mkII's for myself. Not only a pair or two (second pair will be a backup pair) to use in my car but I'm also going to use them in an MTM configuration for my front in-wall speakers in my theater coupled with M25 tweeters. 

_____________

*On a side note I should throw in an apology to DIYMA. Between attending CES and having a rather large onslaught of fatigue the week after I got back from CES I am only just now getting back in the saddle. I've been gone from the forums, Facebook, building drivers, shipping drivers, etc. You name it, I've been absent for the previous two weeks so again my apologies.  *

_____________


----------



## LaserSVT

I so look forward to my MK II TMs arriving. So far I loved everything I have purchased from him and I expect these TMs to be quite spectacular in my two way setup. Nick has always given me spectacular customer service and treated me like a great friend and customer. I am sure I will enjoy these new components paired with the SI tweeters and subs already installed in the truck.At least with the M25 tweeters i know i will experience a full rich sound I am accustomed to. Not to knock my AD components in any way but I believe this will bring the truck to the next level.


----------



## Coppertone

I'm looking forward to your thoughts once all is installed and tuned to your liking.


----------



## 1fishman

RRizz said:


> So, I got mine installed today, and I'm smellin what soundquality4me is cookin'.. lol
> If your car has thick spacers from the factory, there is a chance that the hole in the sheet metal is smaller than the opening on the spacer, leading to the rain guard hitting said metal. fortunately for me, 6x9's were an option in my car, so I had to turn them just so to get them to drop in nicely. (rain guard is not 100 percent on top, but is of no concern to me, my car rarely sees rain)
> Anyway, I got them in, and since my old set was running at 8 ohms, now were at 4, I had to make a few adjustments. I did this by ear, I did not get REW out for measurements, ect
> I'll do that after I get a few good hours on them.
> First impressions I cant print here, there was an obscenity or two in there! Second impressions were... Awesome. Solid, strong midbass from these babies. Very impressive.
> I hope your doors are solid. Tracks with heavy string bass...very slight blooming, but ill fix that when I re-tune with REW later. I listened at mid-volume for quite a while, going through all my SQ go-to tunes, couldn't find much fault in them. I was grinning slightly.
> Then I got a little more aggressive..Threw some pitbull at them, and twisted the knob..They kept their composure extremely well. I wasn't finished yet...Popped in some Trapt (headstrong) Full tilt. Damn. these things kick A$$. Now I'm thoroughly impressed.
> I liked version 1, I LOVE version 2.
> Before I came here, I dropped Nick at SI an email, and let him know I'm down for at LEAST one more pair.
> Another home run from Stereo Integrity, without a doubt.


How are you running them? 3 way or two way... IOW how high did you cross them and how was the midrange?


----------



## RRizz

1fishman said:


> How are you running them? 3 way or two way... IOW how high did you cross them and how was the midrange?


Using them in a 3 way setup. 50 to 500hz. 24db xovers. Lower midrange is quite nice, but that's all I can help you with since they are handing off to CDT ES-02's until Nick finishes building my 3" widebanders..lol Highs are, of course handled by the M25's


----------



## Dasyce

Any updates on when these are shipping out?


----------



## Velozity

​


Dasyce said:


> Any updates on when these are shipping out?



According to their Facebook page the drivers were in stock as of Jan. 27. They need a few weeks to get all the pre-orders shipped. So by the beginning of March I suspect we'll all have our speakers .


----------



## Onyx1136

Dasyce said:


> Any updates on when these are shipping out?


Mine arrived yesterday. I don't believe I ordered them early enough to be part of the first batch shipped out last month, so I assume they have arrived from the build house and are being shipped. But, might want to check with Nick. I could easily be wrong.


----------



## Victor_inox

Onyx1136 said:


> Mine arrived yesterday. I don't believe I ordered them early enough to be part of the first batch shipped out last month, so I assume they have arrived from the build house and are being shipped. But, might want to check with Nick. I could easily be wrong.


date of the order?


----------



## bucky340

Velozity said:


> ​
> 
> According to their Facebook page the drivers were in stock as of Jan. 27. They need a few weeks to get all the pre-orders shipped. So by the beginning of March I suspect we'll all have our speakers .


YAY! I've got a rattle going in one door, and I hate having to do doors. One operation to fix rattle and swap in these MKII's would be sweet. The rattle is intermittent and subtle--I honestly don't know how much longer I can take it!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Yes the production drivers have come in. I had had MRI's and infusions for my MS recently so I have not been able to ship out many TM65 mkII's but I will continue to ship them out as quickly as I can.


----------



## 1fishman

Victor_inox said:


> date of the order?


Looks like they could be shipping a bit out of order. I ordered before RRizz and still haven't heard anything. I hate to bother folks but I'll have to shoot them an email if i don't hear something soon.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Yes the production drivers have come in. I had had MRI's and infusions for my MS recently so I have not been able to ship out many TM65 mkII's but I will continue to ship them out as quickly as I can.


Ah, understood, no worry's. Looking forward to getting those installed, they sure look good.


----------



## Onyx1136

Victor_inox said:


> date of the order?


No idea. I've never kept a receipt for anything in my life.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Looks like they could be shipping a bit out of order. I ordered before RRizz and still haven't heard anything. I hate to bother folks but I'll have to shoot them an email if i don't hear something soon.


Please do bother me! I hate missing an order. Email me with the situation and your order number, name, etc, so I can look it up quickly.


----------



## tRidiot

Glad to hear. I was hoping to do some rewiring of my system in the Tahoe later this month or next, so maybe I'll have mine here by then. If they are as good as reported in my setup, I'll probably put them in my Z as well.


----------



## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> Please do bother me! I hate missing an order. Email me with the situation and your order number, name, etc, so I can look it up quickly.


 Wouldn`t it be easier if you publish range of orders shipped?

I paid July 13 for example.


----------



## Victor_inox

Onyx1136 said:


> No idea. I've never kept a receipt for anything in my life.


Paypal does that for you.


----------



## Babs

dcfis said:


> Ive got the same speaker cutouts in my '15 accord. All you have to do is trim a tiny bit off those bottom ears (I primered the bare metal to prevent any rust)and it will fit with a 3/4" Spacer. Buy a PVC shelf from Lowes and you are golden. There is plenty of room for those speakers.



Yep. The struggle is real with Honda's. I hate they do that but nothing a dremel and a steady hand and a dab of rustoleum can't remedy. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## crackinhedz

Will there be any future orders possible? 

Heard the tm65 mk1 from WhereAmEye, peaked my interest in getting a pair of mkII later on down the road! 

Thanks


----------



## tRidiot

Got a shipping notification. Couldn't figure out what it was, as I couldn't remember ordering anything lately - I've been broke after building a number of ARs this month. lol

Then I saw that it said it was from Sundown and I KNEW I didn't order anything from them, but I remembered these are shipping under Sundown. So I guess mine will be on the way, and should be here mid-week. 

I think I should get one set installed later in the month.


----------



## Mic10is

I'm interested in picking up a set for my new comp build


----------



## Victor_inox

Received voicemail and tracking number from Nick today, will get mine soon.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> Got a shipping notification. Couldn't figure out what it was, as I couldn't remember ordering anything lately - I've been broke after building a number of ARs this month. lol
> 
> Then I saw that it said it was from Sundown and I KNEW I didn't order anything from them, but I remembered these are shipping under Sundown. So I guess mine will be on the way, and should be here mid-week.
> 
> I think I should get one set installed later in the month.


Yes, we ship through Sundown's shipping hub so the notifications will come from them.


----------



## bbfoto

tRidiot said:


> Got a shipping notification. Couldn't figure out what it was, as I couldn't remember ordering anything lately - I've been broke after building a number of ARs this month. lol
> 
> Then I saw that it said it was from Sundown and I KNEW I didn't order anything from them, but I remembered these are shipping under Sundown. So I guess mine will be on the way, and should be here mid-week.
> 
> I think I should get one set installed later in the month.


Good to hear. If you don't mind me asking, what is your order number?

Oh, and how many ARs do you really need?


----------



## tRidiot

bbfoto said:


> Good to hear. If you don't mind me asking, what is your order number?


Invoice ID: SI-1674

I guess that's it?




bbfoto said:


> Oh, and how many ARs do you really need?


As many as I can afford. :laugh: I think this puts me at 15 or so, with a bunch more partials still to finish.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Please do bother me! I hate missing an order. Email me with the situation and your order number, name, etc, so I can look it up quickly.


Email sent Friday on order #SI 1616, purchased 07-13-16, Roland Jacques
yourfishman AT yahoo DOT com


----------



## foreman

Nice! I'm #1690 so i'm betting it will be a bit.


----------



## soundstreamer

Got my shipping notice this morning. I'm number 1663. Can't wait to try these out!


----------



## Iamsecond

I can't wait either. Im going to go get my grubby hands on some real soon. I like living less than 45 minutes from si and sundown. Its dangerous because I do live that close, but on the other hand it was cool to have nick and deliver my 24s to the house and help me lug them in. Nick sir you are the man. Hope everything ended well after our convo this afternoon. :laugh:


----------



## bbfoto

tRidiot said:


> Invoice ID: SI-1674
> 
> I guess that's it?


Yep, that seems right. It definitely looks as if these are not being shipped out in chronological order in regards to the order numbers. My order is #SI-1623 and no email notification nor package has arrived yet.




Electrodynamic said:


> Please do bother me! I hate missing an order. Email me with the situation and your order number, name, etc, so I can look it up quickly.





Electrodynamic said:


> Yes, we ship through Sundown's shipping hub so the notifications will come from them.


Nick, I've sent you an email regarding my order to [email protected] and [email protected]

Order #: SI-1623
Order Date: July 13, 2016


THANKS!

EDIT: Nick, I received your Email response. Thank you! Makes sense...I'll be eagerly watching for a shipping notification. I'm just as excited and impatient as everyone else to get these installed and playing.  Thanks again! 

Billy B.


----------



## bbfoto

Got my shipping notice Email today from Sundown Audio. Shipping via _FedEx Home Delivery_. My Order Date and Order # is in my previous post just above.

Stoked to get these and get them installed.

Thanks Nick!


----------



## PorkCereal

I got presents just in time for my birthday.


----------



## brainbot1

Got a call from Nick today, mine is shipping out and should be here Friday according to FedEx! 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## USS Enterprise

Some one post some pics! Preferably install ones, and your impressions! I need some speaker porn!

lol


----------



## Electrodynamic

Just so the internet doesn't think these drivers have not shipped - they have shipped. Very few people post up reviews or come back to threads indicating that they received their product(s) but the orders have shipped. There are a few orders pending shipment but those customers have been contacted. Additionally there is the possibility that I typed in email addresses wrong for shipping notification so if you have not received shipping notification please send me an email - do not post in this thread with only your screen name because I don't know who you are with a screen name. Please send me an email. My email address is nick at stereointegrity dot com.


----------



## Victor_inox

USS Enterprise said:


> Some one post some pics! Preferably install ones, and your impressions! I need some speaker porn!
> 
> lol


Will get mine tomorrow and will put them in my test bench Friday or Saturday along with Nick`s tweeters. I promise subjective review. maybe even objective one if I`m not too lazy.


----------



## USS Enterprise

Victor_inox said:


> Will get mine tomorrow and will put them in my test bench Friday or Saturday along with Nick`s tweeters. I promise subjective review. maybe even objective one if I`m not too lazy.


I look forward to it.
I'm sure many others will too.

Nicks tweets are fantastic, I love them. Can't wait to see what you think of the setup of the MKII's and tweets.


----------



## soundstreamer

I got mine today and I'm hoping to get them along with the M25's installed this weekend. They are very impressive looking speakers!


----------



## tRidiot

Got both pairs of mine today. They look very very nice. I am very pleased. Going to try to get one set installed maybe in a couple of weeks.


----------



## AndrewGTImk6

Ordered last night #1903 and FedEx delivered my M25s yesterday 

It was a good day


----------



## bdmach1

Ordered a pair this morning with a pair of M25 tweets, I'm order #1912 I think...


----------



## Victor_inox

Just got it,looks smaller than it is,I like that.








Quality of powder coating is superb.
Overall I'm impressed so far,listening test coming.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Placed both on 20W break in to settle suspension before critical listening. Not sure how critical that is but figured it wont hurt anything. Out of the box they sounds quite impressive. 88DB sensitivity doesn`t seems like much but I`m sure up to specs. 

Nick, picture in the manual with mounting measurements is barely visible, can you please post it here for reference.


----------



## foreman

Nice pics Vic, thanks


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> Placed both on 20W break in to settle suspension before critical listening. Not sure how critical that is but figured it wont hurt anything. Out of the box they sounds quite impressive. 88DB sensitivity doesn`t seems like much but I`m sure up to specs.
> 
> *Nick, picture in the manual with mounting measurements is barely visible, can you please post it here for reference.*


They are listed on the TM65 mkII web page:


----------



## Victor_inox

Indeed, thank you!


----------



## Theslaking

Installed



Side by side





Haven't listened as I need to solder up my RCA's

Initial impression - This is one badass 6.5. 
Second impression - This rain guard is f#@&ing stupid!
Lastly (for now) - These wire terminals are beefy, maybe a little to stout!

These do not fit right in a TM65 hole if you used a 3/4" spacer and the factory hole was a small 6.5. The rain guard depth was 1" (or so). I had to cut my factory door hole larger to accommodate it. There isn't enough room for excursion and a 1" mounting ring. I had the belief that these had the same mounting size except the magnet depth. Almost true.


----------



## Precordial Thump

Yes, make sure you can accommodate the cut-out diameter to the entire depth of the rain guard. On most speakers, the basket tapers down from the cutout diameter to the motor diameter, meaning that your mounting ring diameter can be wider than the hole in your door but it'll still fit. But on these, the basket and rain guard amount to what is essentially a ~1 inch deep cylinder. I went through 7 dremel cut off wheels removing metal from my doors so the damn thing would fit, but it it all worked out. 

I just fired these up as a drop in midbass replacement paired with SPX-17pro tweet, scan 10f, and IDQ 12. The midbass is strong and clear, blending right into the sub, and they sound good even without changing the tune left over from the prior SPX-17pro mids. I'll give them a bit of break in before spending time on a new tune, but I can't wait to hear what these do when they really come into their own. Initial impressions are very promising!


----------



## dcfis

What is the max freq people are using in a 2 way?


----------



## Victor_inox

dcfis said:


> What is the max freq people are using in a 2 way?


 i have CO at 3100 and they sound nice.


----------



## dsquared

That's nice they can up there.How much juice will you be using for your testing?
Looking forward


----------



## Mic10is

order 1915


----------



## Victor_inox

dsquared said:


> That's nice they can up there.How much juice will you be using for your testing?
> Looking forward


20 W barely get them moving, next up is 100W.


----------



## dallasneon

#1922....just ordered right now.


----------



## solacedagony

Victor_inox said:


> 20 W barely get them moving, next up is 100W.


How was the output at 20W?


----------



## Victor_inox

solacedagony said:


> How was the output at 20W?


They need a bit more. At 60 they play much better. 100 will be tomorrow.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Just so the internet doesn't think these drivers have not shipped - they have shipped. Very few people post up reviews or come back to threads indicating that they received their product(s) but the orders have shipped. There are a few orders pending shipment but those customers have been contacted. Additionally there is the possibility that I typed in email addresses wrong for shipping notification so if you have not received shipping notification please send me an email - do not post in this thread with only your screen name because I don't know who you are with a screen name. Please send me an email. My email address is nick at stereointegrity dot com.


I'm not sure you're getting my emails. trying to find out the status of my order.

Sent you an Email last week and two emails this week, with no reply. Two were sent to [email protected] and one sent to [email protected]. 

Order # SI 1616.
Raoul Roland Jacques
[email protected]
Transaction ID
1N85139608393113S


----------



## edouble101

I received mine today. Very heavy for their size.

They look great!


----------



## foreman

Shout out to Nick for fast shipping my tracking number said they were supposed to be here Tuesday and they arrive today so that's even better than having to wait to weekend thank you


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> I'm not sure you're getting my emails. trying to find out the status of my order.
> 
> Sent you an Email last week and two emails this week, with no reply. Two were sent to [email protected] and one sent to [email protected].
> 
> Order # SI 1616.
> Raoul Roland Jacques
> [email protected]
> Transaction ID
> 1N85139608393113S


Thanks for posting all of your info. My apologies for not seeing / replying to your emails but I just sent you an email. I found your order and will get it packed tomorrow so it will be picked up on Monday.


----------



## badbutte

Mine arrived on Monday, but the weather in nodakistan sucked so I waited to install them until today. Install went pretty smoothly- I did have to cut the door panel a bit to get them to fit into the door. (It's a 2005 Outback)

System notes
This is an all SI speaker system M25's TM65 mkII, and BM mkIV.
cross overs at 65hz 24 db and 2500hz 24 db
Polk audio 5000.1 amp
PPI DSP 88r (I've got a good one- works very well)
Raspberry Pi 3+ with DIGI+ digital output - optical to the DSP RuneAudio interface.

WOW!! clean is the first word to come to mind. I might need to upgrade the amp- I had to dial the tweets back a fair bit to level match. It didn't sound strained at max, but it was a bit less output then the Polk audio MM6501's they are replacing- I'd have to look, but I think the Polks are a bit more sensitive.

1st track- "Little Wing" Stevie Ray, MoFi re-release of "The Sky is Crying"- should hear the amp fuzz- bad ground during recording, 60 hz tone in the far background- clear as as it is on the house system. Guitar is right, drum kit is in the right place, and imaging good. High hat in particular is very good.

2nd track- Dire Straits "Money for Nothing", FLAC rip of the 20th aniv re-release SACD, CD side. OH YEAH- kicks hit, distorted guitar is clean, just right...

3rd track- Pink Floyd, Pulse," Great Gig in the Sky"- go to female vocal test track- excellent tonality, imaging good, very well rendered space for a live recording. 

4th track- Norah Jones and Ray Charles, Genius loves Company, "Here We Go Again"
They both sound just right, and the B3 that Billy Preston is playing is also great.

5th track- Tower of Power, Soul Vaccination, "Still Diggin' on James Brown"- horns and funk bass- excellent tonality again, they just sound right.

Over all- These make a great setup, although I think that I could use a bit more power to the 65's- 50 wpc may not be enough, very accurate sound without adding much of their own color. Definitely hit hard even with the limited power- low mid range is very nice. M25's seem clean at the cross over point, probably could be crossed a bit lower without any problem. 

I'll need to spend some time fine tuning, but these were easy speakers to get set up, not much EQ to get sounding right.


----------



## Electrodynamic

badbutte said:


> Mine arrived on Monday, but the weather in nodakistan sucked so I waited to install them until today. Install went pretty smoothly- I did have to cut the door panel a bit to get them to fit into the door. (It's a 2005 Outback)
> 
> System notes
> This is an all SI speaker system M25's TM65 mkII, and BM mkIV.
> cross overs at 65hz 24 db and 2500hz 24 db
> Polk audio 5000.1 amp
> PPI DSP 88r (I've got a good one- works very well)
> Raspberry Pi 3+ with DIGI+ digital output - optical to the DSP RuneAudio interface.
> 
> WOW!! clean is the first word to come to mind. I might need to upgrade the amp- I had to dial the tweets back a fair bit to level match. It didn't sound strained at max, but it was a bit less output then the Polk audio MM6501's they are replacing- I'd have to look, but I think the Polks are a bit more sensitive.
> 
> 1st track- "Little Wing" Stevie Ray, MoFi re-release of "The Sky is Crying"- should hear the amp fuzz- bad ground during recording, 60 hz tone in the far background- clear as as it is on the house system. Guitar is right, drum kit is in the right place, and imaging good. High hat in particular is very good.
> 
> 2nd track- Dire Straits "Money for Nothing", FLAC rip of the 20th aniv re-release SACD, CD side. OH YEAH- kicks hit, distorted guitar is clean, just right...
> 
> 3rd track- Pink Floyd, Pulse," Great Gig in the Sky"- go to female vocal test track- excellent tonality, imaging good, very well rendered space for a live recording.
> 
> 4th track- Norah Jones and Ray Charles, Genius loves Company, "Here We Go Again"
> They both sound just right, and the B3 that Billy Preston is playing is also great.
> 
> 5th track- Tower of Power, Soul Vaccination, "Still Diggin' on James Brown"- horns and funk bass- excellent tonality again, they just sound right.
> 
> Over all- These make a great setup, although I think that I could use a bit more power to the 65's- 50 wpc may not be enough, very accurate sound without adding much of their own color. Definitely hit hard even with the limited power- low mid range is very nice. M25's seem clean at the cross over point, probably could be crossed a bit lower without any problem.
> 
> I'll need to spend some time fine tuning, but these were easy speakers to get set up, not much EQ to get sounding right.


Thank you very much for posting up your initial listening impressions!


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks for posting all of your info. My apologies for not seeing / replying to your emails but I just sent you an email. I found your order and will get it packed tomorrow so it will be picked up on Monday.


:thumbsup:


----------



## speakerman99

Got a set on order here. Will Eventually put in the truck, but I'm thinking of building a two way bookshelf with the M25 just for fun. 

Has anyone modeled an enclosure for the TM65's? I'm assuming a vented enclosure would work best given the specs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

speakerman99 said:


> Got a set on order here. Will Eventually put in the truck, but I'm thinking of building a two way bookshelf with the M25 just for fun.
> 
> Has anyone modeled an enclosure for the TM65's? I'm assuming a vented enclosure would work best given the specs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


0.5 ft^3 tuned to 53 Hz.


----------



## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> 0.5 ft^3 tuned to 53 Hz.


with what port?


----------



## LaserSVT

Thanks Nick! Just got mine in and mocked up the tweeter pods. Cant wait to test these bad boys! Build quality looks killer!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Victor_inox said:


> with what port?


A 2" flared port 4.2" long.


----------



## Electrodynamic

badbutte said:


> WOW!! clean is the first word to come to mind. I might need to upgrade the amp- I had to dial the tweets back a fair bit to level match. It didn't sound strained at max, but it was a bit less output then the Polk audio MM6501's they are replacing- I'd have to look, but I think the Polks are a bit more sensitive.
> 
> *5th track- Tower of Power*, Soul Vaccination, "Still Diggin' on James Brown"- horns and funk bass- excellent tonality again, they just sound right.
> 
> Over all- These make a great setup, although I think that I could use a bit more power to the 65's- 50 wpc may not be enough, very accurate sound without adding much of their own color. Definitely hit hard even with the limited power- low mid range is very nice. M25's seem clean at the cross over point, probably could be crossed a bit lower without any problem.


Have you tried Soul With A Captial "S" from TOP yet? That's a great track of theirs - I grew up listening to my dad jam out to that track as I grew up.


----------



## LaserSVT

dcfis said:


> What is the max freq people are using in a 2 way?


I will be at 2200hz


----------



## Electrodynamic

dcfis said:


> What is the max freq people are using in a 2 way?


Victor is using them at 3,100 Hz.


----------



## badbutte

Nick- I'm probably going to listen to the whole Soul Vaccination disk this morning while I clean up the mess I made in the shop.


----------



## Victor_inox

Electrodynamic said:


> Victor is using them at 3,100 Hz.


Even better at 3500. I`m considering making 6db slope at 5000.


----------



## darkmage1991

So i have received mine today.

very nice looking speakers, the sound difference from my cars stock's and these are night and day(i would hope so =P ) i turned on some songs and tested with a tm65 in the drivers and a stock in the passenger and without adjusting my amp gains i turned it up to a point i knew my stock speakers couldnt handle and basically threw up on themselves, and not only did these take it, but they sounded amazing doing it.

but as some others have said the speakers are not as sensitive as others. not even as sensitive as my cars stock speakers... not complaining though these things are clean as hell and in the morning i will go out and turn the gain up on my mids/highs amp now that i got someone more than stock mids. 

i will tell you this though. the overall volume isnt as much as the old speakers but holy ****, these speakers got some kick =P

heres a few snaps i took. 






And here is the screws the speakers come with that you are required to use to keep the warranty.


----------



## Victor_inox

darkmage1991 said:


> So i have received mine today.
> 
> very nice looking speakers, the sound difference from my cars stock's and these are night and day(i would hope so =P ) i turned on some songs and tested with a tm65 in the drivers and a stock in the passenger and without adjusting my amp gains i turned it up to a point i knew my stock speakers couldnt handle and basically threw up on themselves, and not only did these take it, but they sounded amazing doing it.
> 
> but as some others have said the speakers are not as sensitive as others. not even as sensitive as my cars stock speakers... not complaining though these things are clean as hell and in the morning i will go out and turn the gain up on my mids/highs amp now that i got someone more than stock mids.
> 
> i will tell you this though. the overall volume isnt as much as the old speakers but holy ****, these speakers got some kick =P
> 
> heres a few snaps i took.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the screws the speakers come with that you are required to use to keep the warranty.


I`d advise against ever comparing stock speakers sensitivity wit aftermarket.
THey often made in 2Ohm and sound louder until real power applied when threw up on themselves


----------



## bbfoto

^^Thanks for the pics Victor & _darkmage1991_!

I received my *TM65 MKII*'s today as well, though sadly, I am out of town "bringing home the bacon" for another week or so. At least I know that I'll have a few new toys to play with when I get home.  Also ordered the new _*iBasso DX200*_ DAP to give it a go.


----------



## darkmage1991

Victor_inox said:


> I`d advise against ever comparing stock speakers sensitivity wit aftermarket.
> THey often made in 2Ohm and sound louder until real power applied when threw up on themselves


i aint literally comparing the too. i know they aint comparable. its just what was still in my car as i refused to buy something when i knew these were on the way. 
And just a little tidbit the stockers were 4 ohm. if most are 2 ohm then im sure they had the stock tweeters wired in parallel to come to a 2 ohm load.

Today i really wanna know how they sound compared to my sisters infinity kappa component's which she paid something like $500 for a pair at a local shop. so i will see if she is home and go do a comparison(though not a perfect comparison as we have different cars and hers is more than likely to have more sound dampening built into the door)


----------



## Victor_inox

Lighter paper cone and smaller VC contribute to higher sensitivity as well. My Toyota stock door speakers can get surprisingly low notes at low to moderate low levels. But flaps like **** on higher volume

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## fish

Nick,

sorry if I missed this info on this thread or on your site, but what's the voice coil diameter & recommended power handling?


----------



## DigMINN

What's the opinion of people on these drivers compared to other 6.5"s in this price range, like SB Acoustics carbon cone? They look like amazingly well built speakers, just trying to get a sense of their performance.


----------



## Electrodynamic

fish said:


> Nick,
> 
> sorry if I missed this info on this thread or on your site, but what's the voice coil diameter & recommended power handling?


1.5" diameter VC and a 120 watt RMS power handling. Power handling is located by clicking on the "features" tab on the TM65 mkII's web page.


----------



## fish

Electrodynamic said:


> 1.5" diameter VC and a 120 watt RMS power handling. Power handling is located by clicking on the "features" tab on the TM65 mkII's web page.


I appreciate it, I can't believe I overlooked that on the site. :blush:


----------



## dallasneon

Nick, I sent you a message about my order. Thanks


----------



## Electrodynamic

dallasneon said:


> Nick, I sent you a message about my order. Thanks


Replied to.


----------



## dallasneon

Electrodynamic said:


> Replied to.


Thank you sir!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks for posting all of your info. My apologies for not seeing / replying to your emails but I just sent you an email. I found your order and will get it packed tomorrow so it will be picked up on Monday.


Another week goes by,,, and still nothing 
order # SI 1616 

1617 got his 5 weeks ago.

But on the bright side i got 1001 post


----------



## brumledb

1fishman said:


> But on the bright side i got 1001 post


:beerchug: :guitarist::drummer:epper:


----------



## LaserSVT

These speakers are amazing! I will be doing sa full review after break in and some serious tuning time but on a flat EQ they are very impressive. This was with a 31.5hz 6db high pass on 150rms....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QwEaXgyTP0&feature=youtu.be


----------



## norurb

Wow...nice.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Another week goes by,,, and still nothing
> order # SI 1616
> 
> 1617 got his 5 weeks ago.
> 
> But on the bright side i got 1001 post


Instead of posting on this forum and not contacting us directly I can refund your purchase. You choose. Order # posted or not.


----------



## tRidiot

Electrodynamic said:


> Instead of posting on this forum and not contacting us directly I can refund your purchase. You choose. Order # posted or not.


He already posted a week ago that he DID email you and posted his order number and purchase date in the thread as well. And you have mentioned multiple times you have missed emails from people. 

He's not being unreasonable, you don't have to be a dick to him, Nick.


----------



## edouble101

I installed my TM65 mkII this morning. Installation is super simple with 4 screws per driver. 

The build quality of these speakers is top notch, I am very impressed.


----------



## Errldaily

Nice!!! I received mine the other day, great build quality can't wait for the weather to warm up.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Instead of posting on this forum and not contacting us directly I can refund your purchase. You choose. Order # posted or not.


I sent you 2 emails this week before i posted, I also sent 2 emails last week and 1 the week before. I have not received any reply to any of my emails, not one reply.The only thing you've replied to was my post here from last week. You said you found my order and were sending them last Monday.

My time is limited because i'm dealing with a illness myself, i only have a few good hours a day right now> So if you would just reply to my emails and let me know when i could expect my speakers it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## jriggs

Electrodynamic said:


> Instead of posting on this forum and not contacting us directly I can refund your purchase. You choose. Order # posted or not.


Here we go again.


----------



## SkizeR

jriggs said:


> Here we go again.


Did you not see it coming? Lol

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> He already posted a week ago that he DID email you and posted his order number and purchase date in the thread as well. And you have mentioned multiple times you have missed emails from people.
> 
> He's not being unreasonable, you don't have to be a dick to him, Nick.





> You also don't have to take his posts as facts versus what actually happened. He has been refunded as he has not sent me an email. Somone got pissy on DIYMA and is reaching for the choir to plead with them. If a customer refuses to send me an email regarding their order it is best to refund their purchase. I have reached out to multiple customers for various reasons and if they do not reply they are refunded and their orders cancelled.


If tRid wasn't trying to stirr the pot like he was in the "pictures are worth a thousand words" TM65 mkI thread where I posted actual measured data versus the WinISD graphs that many were basing their decisions on it might be a different dynamic. 

Unfortanately at this moment the invoice number posted in this thead that is drawing the most attention has been refunded does not mean that the customer can not keep their order. I now realize the negative impact that DIYMA can have on a customers order - order # posted or not. Minions following or not. Much like WinISD graphs being "accurate" vs. actual measured data.


----------



## Victor_inox

Communication is a two way road indeed.


----------



## seafish

Well I guess I might be about to void the warranty on my just recieved (and BEAUTIFUL, I might add) TM65mk2 drivers (JK...LOL), but honestly Nick, I didn;t get your take at all that 1fishman was pissing and moaning here. In fact, my take on his posts is ONLY that he was trying to reach out to you after having several emails unanswered and still keep his message light. While certainly I guess that it is possible that he is lying about the emails, I really dont really see ANY reason for him to do that... I think it is also certainly possible that they are simply in your spam folder or perhaps he sent them to one of your other email addresses. I know that when I first contacted you about these, sometimes your responses were prompt, sometimes they were not at all... I wasn;t worried about it because I was in zero rush to get the speakers and I also respected the difficulties you might have in getting them manufactured to meet all your goals for them. That being said, perhaps with his health issues, he might well be in a rush to hear these awesome speakers and certainly, given the already extended time frame for arrival, it would be just silly to claim that he is being impatient. MORE IMPORTANTLY, at least to me, he is having health issues that prevent him from keeping in ready and/or constant email contact...pretty sure that you can relate to that and perhaps even empathize just a bit more for his situation.... Of course, you are welcome to your opinion of him, but I don't get it, especially if he was honest about the previous emails that he sent!!

Just my .02 ... BTW, I am LOVING how the new speakers look and feel...I cant wait to hear how they sound, particularly after Lasers ecstatic review of them paired with the M25 Tweeters and BMmkIV subs, which I also already have.


----------



## tRidiot

Hahaha wow. Stirring the pot? Minion?

Sorry, Nick, your hypersensitivity has clouded your judgement, and I think it detracts from your brand. *Please point out* where I am or have stirred the pot against you.... all while purchasing multiple SI products. lol. Please.


You've got some real issues, man.

<edit> You try to wield the purchase and warranty of products like the "ban hammer" against anyone you feel has slighted you in the least. I know MY warranty is probably void now, since you have somehow singled me out as someone who is against you (for whatever reason). Not that I care. I believe in integrity over profit and honesty over image.


----------



## tRidiot

Funny, because this is exactly how I expected you to react, too... but that's a good thing. People need to see the real you, and you are great at showing it off.


----------



## 1fishman

Ok so i'm confused, why did you refund me? Did you not receive any of my Emails?
If not id' like figure out why, maybe something i did wrong.
I didn't want a refund. I just want to know when i could expect my speakers.

Edit

Please contact me by PM, if emails is not working.

I don't understand what's going on with my order
Thanks


----------



## Weigel21

A little confusing with Nick's response earlier in the thread, "Unfortanately at this moment the invoice number posted in this thead that is drawing the most attention has been refunded does not mean that the customer can not keep their order.". 

I'm not sure how being refunded means a customer can keep their unshipped order. Nick would have to elaborate more on what is meant. A canceled order able to be kept is a bit of an oxymoron. 

I feel the two of you really need to communicate off the public forum, third party interference seems to always end with an unwanted resolution. 

Can't 1fishman and Electrodynamic use the in-forum messaging system to resolve the issue out of sight of those who may (intentionally or not) "stir the pot".


----------



## bdmach1

Hope fishman & Nick can get things worked out.


----------



## Theslaking

I have a complaint with my TM65 mkII purchase. Didn't any one notice the extreme drop off in quality with the graphics on the box? Is this what we should expect with future SI offerings? 



But seriously, I got the passenger side installed and these are fantastic. The mid bass is beautiful. It's a very clear and clean woofer. I am going to install my MK1's in the rear doors using the Minidsp rear fill plug in and see what happens. I took them out of the front to put in the II's. I hate for them to sit on a shelf.


----------



## Alrojoca

:laugh::laugh:, those extra graphics and color boxes, may cost about $5 or more per pair, it cuts costs.


----------



## edouble101

I spent about 1 hour listening to the TM65 mkII. 

caveat : I just modified my door panels so the speakers are not restricted through the factory grill. Prior to this modification I had annoying door rattles that I could not tame. 










Midbass drivers I used in my vehicle prior to these (same amp, same dsp):
- TM65 mkI
- GR M165X
- Image Dynamics X65

DSP setting : high pass 63hz @ 12db, low pass 320hz at 12db (passenger 180 phase)

I first noticed that there are no noticeable resonances (thanks to door panel mod). Second, these drivers are extremely flat with no audible peaks. Even that annoying 200hz peak is nonexistent. Third observation is that I need to adjust my amp gain and give these drivers more power!


----------



## Alrojoca

edouble101 said:


> I spent about 1 hour listening to the TM65 mkII.
> 
> caveat : I just modified my door panels so the speakers are not restricted through the factory grill. Prior to this modification I had annoying door rattles that I could not tame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midbass drivers I used in my vehicle prior to these (same amp, same dsp):
> - TM65 mkI
> - GR M165X
> - Image Dynamics X65
> 
> DSP setting : high pass 63hz @ 12db, low pass 320hz at 12db (passenger 180 phase)
> 
> I first noticed that there are no noticeable resonances (thanks to door panel mod). Second, these drivers are extremely flat with no audible peaks. Even that annoying 200hz peak is nonexistent. Third observation is that I need to adjust my amp gain and give these drivers more power!


320 hz? That's low for a low pass setting even for a 3 way, assuming you have a 3 way front system


----------



## Victor_inox

Alrojoca said:


> :laugh::laugh:, those extra graphics and color boxes, may cost about $5 or more per pair, it cuts costs.


Perhaps nick will do "Pro" version of the driver with colorful box and all that for $100 more for true audiophiles.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Ok so i'm confused, why did you refund me? Did you not receive any of my Emails?
> If not id' like figure out why, maybe something i did wrong.
> I didn't want a refund. I just want to know when i could expect my speakers.
> 
> Edit
> 
> Please contact me by PM, if emails is not working.
> 
> I don't understand what's going on with my order
> Thanks


The reason you were refunded has been listed and posted by me on the previous page. I have not received any of the emails you have mentioned in this thread yet I see you posting in this thread about said emails. I am not on the forums very much and replys made inside a thread, such as this, can be overlooked as I am not on the forums very often - especially during the week days. I.e., the forums are not a good place to publically post frustration. Email and/or phone calls are the best way to reach us.


----------



## Electrodynamic

seafish said:


> Well I guess I might be about to void the warranty on my just recieved (and BEAUTIFUL, I might add) TM65mk2 drivers (JK...LOL), but honestly Nick, I didn;t get your take at all that 1fishman was pissing and moaning here. In fact, my take on his posts is ONLY that he was trying to reach out to you after having several emails unanswered and still keep his message light. While certainly I guess that it is possible that he is lying about the emails, I really dont really see ANY reason for him to do that... I think it is also certainly possible that they are simply in your spam folder or perhaps he sent them to one of your other email addresses. I know that when I first contacted you about these, sometimes your responses were prompt, sometimes they were not at all... I wasn;t worried about it because I was in zero rush to get the speakers and I also respected the difficulties you might have in getting them manufactured to meet all your goals for them. That being said, perhaps with his health issues, he might well be in a rush to hear these awesome speakers and certainly, given the already extended time frame for arrival, it would be just silly to claim that he is being impatient. MORE IMPORTANTLY, at least to me, he is having health issues that prevent him from keeping in ready and/or constant email contact...pretty sure that you can relate to that and perhaps even empathize just a bit more for his situation.... Of course, you are welcome to your opinion of him, but I don't get it, especially if he was honest about the previous emails that he sent!!
> 
> Just my .02 ... BTW, I am LOVING how the new speakers look and feel...I cant wait to hear how they sound, particularly after Lasers ecstatic review of them paired with the M25 Tweeters and BMmkIV subs, which I also already have.


I agree. Complaining on this forum prior to emailing or calling me, however, is not acceptable and I can/will refund an unhappy customer. 

But posting in this thread just to complain instead of trying to get a hold of us about your order is not smiled upon. I have asked the customer to get in contact with us multiple times and I have yet to see an email in our inbox from said customer - I have only seen complaints on this fourm. Hence the refund. 

Having posted the latter, the customer is in our system meaning they are a repeat customer and I would like to keep returning customers. All they have to do is email us instead of posting their missing order info here on DIYMA which only stirrs up the waiting pre-conceptive negative nancy's into full-on camo shedding action.


----------



## jriggs

Electrodynamic said:


> I agree. Complaining on this forum prior to emailing or calling me, however, is not acceptable and I can/will refund an unhappy customer.
> 
> But posting in this thread just to complain instead of trying to get a hold of us about your order is not smiled upon. I have asked the customer to get in contact with us multiple times and I have yet to see an email in our inbox from said customer - I have only seen complaints on this fourm. Hence the refund.
> 
> Having posted the latter, the customer is in our system meaning they are a repeat customer and I would like to keep returning customers. All they have to do is email us instead of postingething their missing order info here on DIYMA which only stirrs up the waiting pre-conceptive negative nancy's into full-on camo shedding action.


Maybe, something happened on your end man. Either way, who gives a ****? There is no way that you can always be right. Simmer down and take care of your customers. Even when they upset you. At the end of the day your ego is not what matters, sales and a positive rep matter. Your crappy attitude, thin skin and ego severely hurt your business. Get over yourself.


----------



## jriggs

BTW, I don't think he ever asked for a refund. Your like the Trump of audio driver manufacturers.


----------



## dcfis

jriggs said:


> BTW, I don't think he ever asked for a refund. Your like the Trump of audio driver manufacturers.


Making DIYMA Sound Great Again? I think I agree.


----------



## Salami

Electrodynamic said:


> The reason you were refunded has been listed and posted by me on the previous page. I have not received any of the emails you have mentioned in this thread yet I see you posting in this thread about said emails. I am not on the forums very much and replys made inside a thread, such as this, can be overlooked as I am not on the forums very often - especially during the week days. I.e., the forums are not a good place to publically post frustration. Email and/or phone calls are the best way to reach us.



Yeah but he did that, multiple times. You even replied you sent him an email and his order would be shipped out last Monday. If you did as you said you would he would have had his speakers already and he would not be asking for answers here. In case you forgot here is your post: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/4470626-post635.html

So you need to suck up your pride and fix the problem the right way, quickly, before you do any more damage to your own brand than you already have.


----------



## jriggs

Salami said:


> Yeah but he did that, multiple times. You even replied you sent him an email and his order would be shipped out last Monday. If you did as you said you would he would have had his speakers already and he would not be asking for answers here. In case you forgot here is your post: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/4470626-post635.html
> 
> So you need to suck up your pride and fix the problem the right way, quickly, before you do any more damage to your own brand than you already have.


The thing is, with every release of each one off he creates, this same exact behavior manifests itself. Sad.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Salami said:


> Yeah but he did that, multiple times. You even replied you sent him an email and his order would be shipped out last Monday. If you did as you said you would he would have had his speakers already and he would not be asking for answers here. In case you forgot here is your post: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/4470626-post635.html
> 
> So you need to suck up your pride and fix the problem the right way, quickly, before you do any more damage to your own brand than you already have.


It is select members of this forums attitude that makes is so easy for me to refund rather than fix and/or send out product. The wording of your post @Salami helped the aftermath of the refund process. Thank you for that. 

The TM65 mkII's will [have] sell quickly. Again, if somone complains on here trying to rally the troops they will be refunded as the customer in question has been.


----------



## jriggs

Electrodynamic said:


> It is select members of this forums attitude that makes is so easy for me to refund rather than fix and/or send out product. The wording of your post @Salami helped the aftermath of the refund process. Thank you for that.
> 
> The TM65 mkII's will [have] sell quickly. Again, if somone complains on here trying to rally the troops they will be refunded as the customer in question has been.


You. Will. Never. Get. It.


----------



## rton20s




----------



## Victor_inox

jriggs said:


> You. Will. Never. Get. It.


 Maybe he don`t want to get it.


Customer always right attitude is what ruined not one but many deals.

Just last week i sold something to a dude who complained that he is frustrated by signature required insured package I shipped to address listed on his transaction page.

Now he is asking to redirect package to his work address.
How his mistake of not providing his work address as confirmed address became my problem. Mind you his inbox was full. 
**** you inconsiderate customers with your " I always right" attitude!


If Nick asking as he does 100 times already to contact him by email and in response people posting for everyone to see it`s his right to refuse service to anyone. Do we really have to request read proof receipt for every god damn email we sent?


----------



## T3mpest

jriggs said:


> You. Will. Never. Get. It.


I don't think he does this anymore as a 30 year career plan. He needs the money for bills, this helps pay them and with his health issues who can blame him. He makes amazing drivers and sells them to a select few at this point since he really doesn't advertise or stock like he used to. He isn't out to kiss customers asses and I can't blame him. There are A LOT of people who love to complain on forums before going to the company I see it a lot and it's pretty class less to handle it like that. 

#MAKEDIYMAGREATAGAIN


----------



## jriggs

There is enough of documented history to validate what I am saying AND I have had my own personal experience and exchanges with him. Every time he releases a new product this same cycle of crap occurs. He tried real hard over the past year to play nice guy, but a leopard can't change its spots.

Victor, you are correct. The customer is not always right. I never stated this and there are other posts I have made regarding Nick where I have also said the customer is NOT always right. I run a businessin a toatally different field. I can also appreciate where you or Nick may be coming from. But, right or wrong, I would not ever treat people like Nick does. Especially in a public forum such as this.


----------



## Victor_inox

jriggs said:


> There is enough of documented history to validate what I am saying AND I have had my own personal experience and exchanges with him. Every time he releases a new product this same cycle of crap occurs. He tried real hard over the past year to play nice guy, but a leopard can't change its spots.
> 
> Victor, you are correct. The customer is not always right. I never stated this and there are other posts I have made regarding Nick where I have also said the customer is NOT always right. I run a businessin a toatally different field. I can also appreciate where you or Nick may be coming from. But, right or wrong, I would not ever treat people like Nick does. Especially in a public forum such as this.


Fair enough. You speak with your dollars. if enough people displeased by Nick`s actions they will stop trying to buy his awesome drivers. 

Perhaps best way to dealing with customers is to delegate CS to someone else. Blaming game is never productive.


----------



## jriggs

Victor_inox said:


> Fair enough. You speak with your dollars. if enough people displeased by Nick`s actions they will stop trying to buy his awesome drivers.
> 
> Perhaps best way to dealing with customers is to delegate CS to someone else. Blaming game is never productive.


Yes, it has been recommended for years that he delegate CS to someone else.

And personally I do speak with my dollars. I really like his products and have had positive experience with several over the years . But no more because of the attitude, "no speakers for you", mentality. Too many other options out there, and I am more than willing to pay a bit more to get the proper CS.


----------



## Victor_inox

jriggs said:


> Yes, it has been recommended for years that he delegate CS to someone else.
> 
> And personally I do speak with my dollars. I really like his products and have had positive experience with several over the years . But no more because of the attitude, "no speakers for you", mentality. Too many other options out there, and I am more than willing to pay a bit more to get the proper CS.


He is just a human, unwell one at that, show some compassion.


----------



## Theslaking

So an owner is a "soup Nazi"? That's right. He can do what he wants. And, it is fair for you to complain. However it is not for you to tell the owner how to run customer service or any aspect of their business.


----------



## Theslaking

At some point you become the as$&#le. Everyone keeps saying this is repeat behavior. Do you walk outside and swear at the grass for being green? Not likely. Everyone, even Nick, has stated he has periodic lapses in service and attitude control. That IS WHAT IT IS. Either accept it or don't. But quit being the ******* that continues to complain about someone being who they are.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> The reason you were refunded has been listed and posted by me on the previous page. I have not received any of the emails you have mentioned in this thread yet I see you posting in this thread about said emails. I am not on the forums very much and replys made inside a thread, such as this, can be overlooked as I am not on the forums very often - especially during the week days. I.e., the forums are not a good place to publically post frustration. Email and/or phone calls are the best way to reach us.


*I sent this one February 3* 
raoul jacques <[email protected]> 
To: 
[email protected] 
Feb 3 at 9:26 AM 

Hi just checking on my order for a pair of TM65 MKII. My Order # was SI 1616. 
Thanks 

*Sent this February 8th* 

raoul jacques <[email protected]> 
To: 
[email protected] 
Feb 8 at 10:00 PM 

I haven't heard anything, so i'm send another Email. 

Hi just checking on my order for a pair of TM65 MKII. My Order # was SI 1616. 
Thanks
* 
February 9th i noticed you asked for emails to be sent to [email protected]____ my other ones were sent to [email protected]____ so i sent this one.* 

raoul jacques <[email protected]> 
To: 
[email protected] 
Feb 9 at 7:34 PM 

My 3rd Email and still no reply. The other 2 emails went to [email protected] 
I want to no the status of my order 

TM65 MKII. My Order # SI 1616. 

*You emailed me this last week in reply to my post here.* 

Nick Lemons <[email protected]> 
To: 
[email protected] 
Feb 10 at 10:05 PM 

Raoul, 

Thanks for posting the info (order number, transaction ID, and your actual name) on DIYMA. As you can imagine my inbox is hectic to say the least but that is no excuse for missing your emails and I apologize. I see your order in the system so I'll get your two drivers packed with labels on them tomorrow so they will be picked up on Monday. 

Thanks again for posting the info on DIYMA so I could find your order quickly. 

-------------- 
Nick 
Stereo Integrity 

*I sent this as a reply to your email February 13th* 

raoul <[email protected]> 
To: 
Nick Lemons 
Feb 14 at 9:53 PM 

Hey Nick, 

I haven't seen any emails with tracking or anything on my order SI1616? 

Thanks Raoul

*I sent one on February 16th BUT It looks like i pushed the wrong reply button and it went to back me.*

I've done what asked repeatedly. I don't now what else you expect of someone. 

Over the past 9 days i've had over 30 Cluster headaches and there still not done with me. I don't need any more headaches right now. I haven't been able to work much when at all. When i get caught up on work and meet my february 28th deadline, I'll get with my son and figure out why your not getting my emails. Right now i don't have any more time for this.


----------



## Iamsecond

1fishman, you might want to consider taking down your home address off a forum like this. Just saying. There are some shady lurkers on here that don't make themselves known. 
Also, I can not for the life of me understand why people get behind a screen and get on a thread like this and spew venom towards Nick when your not even involved or buying speakers or adding to an otherwise fun discussion of an amazing speaker. 
I have a small business and quite frankly if I get a certain vibe from someone I will not sell to them even if they want what I have. Stereo Integrity is not going to be hurt because a few people get on here and bad mouth them because their feelings get hurt. Nick is a straightup and honest guy. If he was not he would have kept the money and just not sent the speakers. Everyone is more than welcome to go buy something from a company that has the "best " customer service. However, that is extremely subjective. Oh and btw, we are talking about speakers folks. Also, if you don't like nick just wait to see if anyone puts these bad boys up for sale in the classifieds. After all, a few of the people wading into this conversation do not think they are good for a two way with the 25s. 
So lets get back to the subject at hand, namely the tm65 and how awesome they are. Keep the reviews coming.


----------



## RRizz

If more people stop buying, I can buy more for myself!!!!!


----------



## Iamsecond

I like the way you think. 
I want an entire si system and will have it soon


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> *I sent this one February 3*
> Over the past 9 days i've had over 30 Cluster headaches and there still not done with me. I don't need any more headaches right now. I haven't been able to work much when at all. When i get caught up on work and meet my february 28th deadline, I'll get with my son and figure out why your not getting my emails. Right now i don't have any more time for this.


Because you posted the latter this is one less headache you have to deal with. You have been refunded due to a conflict of interest [what you posted]. I did not run off with your money - I simply sent your money back to you and cancelled your order. No harm, no foul.


----------



## Victor_inox

****, love me some drama....


----------



## tRidiot

Hahaha. Man, this is rich stuff, here.


----------



## wheelieking71

Iamsecond said:


> 1fishman, you might want to consider taking down your home address off a forum like this. Just saying. There are some shady lurkers on here that don't make themselves known.
> Also, I can not for the life of me understand why people get behind a screen and get on a thread like this and spew venom towards Nick when your not even involved or buying speakers or adding to an otherwise fun discussion of an amazing speaker.
> I have a small business and quite frankly if I get a certain vibe from someone I will not sell to them even if they want what I have. Stereo Integrity is not going to be hurt because a few people get on here and bad mouth them because their feelings get hurt. Nick is a straightup and honest guy. If he was not he would have kept the money and just not sent the speakers. Everyone is more than welcome to go buy something from a company that has the "best " customer service. However, that is extremely subjective. Oh and btw, we are talking about speakers folks. Also, if you don't like nick just wait to see if anyone puts these bad boys up for sale in the classifieds. After all, a few of the people wading into this conversation do not think they are good for a two way with the 25s.
> So lets get back to the subject at hand, namely the tm65 and how awesome they are. Keep the reviews coming.


This forum needs a like button.


----------



## Lanson

DUDE you ****ing said you shipped his speakers. 



> Thanks for posting all of your info. My apologies for not seeing / replying to your emails but I just sent you an email. I found your order and will get it packed tomorrow so it will be picked up on Monday.


What the living hell man?

If I did that with stuff I had in my used for sale thread, I'd be (rightly) tarred and feathered!

Send him his speakers, ****!


----------



## WhereAmEye?

fourthmeal said:


> DUDE you ****ing said you shipped his speakers.
> 
> What the living hell man?
> 
> If I did that with stuff I had in my used for sale thread, I'd be (rightly) tarred and feathered!
> 
> Send him his speakers, ****!



Maybe he called fedex and was like "hey I need you to return this guy's shipment to me because he got on my bad side so he no longer can be blessed with my speakers"

Haha I swear diyma is full of middle schoolers



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## schmiddr2

Stop posting all the useless crap. Go to OT as victor implied.


----------



## seafish

fourthmeal said:


> DUDE you…. said you shipped his speakers.
> 
> Quote (by Electrodynamic to 1fishman)
> 
> Thanks for posting all of your info. My apologies for not seeing / replying to your emails but I just sent you an email. I found your order and will get it packed tomorrow so it will be picked up on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> ….


This is a crucial point in the entire drama here…I don't think that it can even reasonably be called a miscommunication after this admission!!!


----------



## DavidRam

Victor_inox said:


> see, offtopic is much more liberal in that regard.


Half of the posts in the last two pages are off-topic...


----------



## PorkCereal

This thread took a turn for the worst. I Think it needs to be cleaned up and a separate qq thread made.


----------



## brainbot1

PorkCereal said:


> This thread took a turn for the worst. I Think it needs to be cleaned up and a separate qq thread made.


I second this notion 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## WhereAmEye?

"Thanks again for posting the info on DIYMA so I could find your order quickly"......."I have not received any of the emails you have mentioned in this thread yet I see you posting in this thread about said emails"

Is everyone honestly going to overlook the blaring contradiction here? I'm seriously not attacking Nick here, I have no reason not to like him, but WHY IS NOONE SEEING THE CONTRADICTION?


----------



## Victor_inox

WhereAmEye? said:


> "Thanks again for posting the info on DIYMA so I could find your order quickly"......."I have not received any of the emails you have mentioned in this thread yet I see you posting in this thread about said emails"
> 
> Is everyone honestly going to overlook the blaring contradiction here? I'm seriously not attacking Nick here, I have no reason not to like him, but WHY IS NOONE SEEING THE CONTRADICTION?


I see no contradiction. where is it?


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Victor_inox said:


> I see no contradiction. where is it?


How can Nick thank the man (via replying to an email) for posting his information on diyma (and therefore get the order straightened out) and yet deny that he received any emails from the man that he replied to?

How is this NOT a contradiction?


----------



## WhereAmEye?

I send you an email.
You reply to my email.
You deny that you received an email.

Is that clear enough for you? Either Nick simply forgot about replying to the email and acted rashly towards the man on here, or 1fishman is making the whole thing up. Which makes more sense?


----------



## Lanson

Same. I have no reason not to like Nick either. I love his products, from the Mag to the BM MkIII to the first gen TM's. They are great.

But Nick previously admitted and thanked the poster for putting up their info so he could correct the ERROR he made, and then Nick said he's packing them up and shipping them immediately.

The contradiction is with what happened after. So what did Nick do? Did he NOT ship them like he said he would, after he admitted his mistake? That would not be good. Did he ship them and then recall them? Also, horrible. That's where I see this going off the rails.

There is no "no harm no foul" in cancelling someone's order. They depended on that. They made a contract with someone for it. They took someone's money for a period of time, which means something. The right thing to do is own up to the mistake (second mistake) apologize again, offer the speakers for sale again, and SHIP them immediately as originally promised in the prior post, after the first mistake was recognized and corrected. 

You can delete this if you want to, but my heart is in the right place. Things like this are beyond petty. Let the guy have his speakers he was promised.


----------



## Victor_inox

WhereAmEye? said:


> I send you an email.
> You reply to my email.
> You deny that you received an email.
> 
> Is that clear enough for you? Either Nick simply forgot about replying to the email and acted rashly towards the man on here, or 1fishman is making the whole thing up. Which makes more sense?


In quote you posted it was unclear. 
maybe he forgot he replied to fish emails, you 21 you don`t think that possibility can exist. 

Nick`s health is bad, he is very sick,he could simply forgot details. 
He issued refund in full, what else one can expect from a guy? public apology?

Others, myself included just thankful he is still able to operate ..
I`ve got my drivers and they are great despite chinese manufacturing.

You can either deal with Nick or wait for buildhouse who builds them start selling them on their own. (not uncommon practice) 

Or look in classifieds.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Victor_inox said:


> In quote you posted it was unclear.
> maybe he forgot he replied to fish emails, you 21 you don`t think that possibility can exist.
> 
> Nick`s health is bad, he is very sick,he could simply forgot details.
> He issued refund in full, what else one can expect from a guy? public apology?
> 
> Others, myself included just thankful he is still able to operate ..
> I`ve got my drivers and they are great despite chinese manufacturing.
> 
> You can either deal with Nick or wait for buildhouse who builds them start selling them on their own. (not uncommon practice)
> 
> Or look in classifieds.


I mentioned there's a chance he forgot. But if he's going to have the word in his company name then he should practice it and give 1fishman some speakers since it's obviously not his fault.


----------



## Victor_inox

Here is a thing, he doesn`t give a flying **** what You or I think.
he has his reason not to deal with people he didn`t like and I honestly envy that ability.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Victor_inox said:


> Here is a thing, he doesn`t give a flying **** what You or I think.
> he has his reason not to deal with people he didn`t like and I honestly envy that ability.


Yup you are correct with that. He's been here long enough to know to ignore most people on here. Maybe 1fishman can just buy another pair with the refund and hope this time he doesn't have to communicate with the owner this time.


----------



## Victor_inox

WhereAmEye? said:


> Yup you are correct with that. He's been here long enough to know to ignore most people on here. Maybe 1fishman can just buy another pair with the refund and hope this time he doesn't have to communicate with the owner this time.


Wonderfull plan. 

When I`m ready to sell my speakers I`d make sure not to communicate with people I don`t like.


----------



## tRidiot

Don't worry about Victor, he's shown his own rear enough times, as well. A reason he's on my /i list, and he's also shown his rear in the bad shipping thread, as well - of course he's going to side with someone like Nick who is telling paying customers who go out of their way to f*** off. I don't give a flying flip that Nick's health is bad as it pertains to this - his ATTITUDE is the problem, not even the issues with losing emails, not shipping, etc. He blatantly SAID he was going to ship, ADMITTED he got the email, then turned around later and blamed the buyer - who has copied the numerous messages and emails. If he would have just said, "Hey, I'm sorry man, I'm swamped with stuff here, I'll get it taken care of" and then DONE it... it would have been fine.

And you take my money for 6 months and then think you can just cancel my order and refund it after I've helped fund your business model because you got your crank twisted? That's your right, certainly... but as I said before, it is important that people here see what Nick's attitude is. Don't try to act like it's "No harm, no foul." There is most certainly a foul, this dude's been patiently waiting for 6 freaking months, which is months beyond when we were suggested the release would be, then has tried multiple times to contact Nick, with no response, then when he posts on here, simply asking what is up, Nick gets his panties in a wad and turns into the school yard kid who's going to take his ball (that someone else subsidized) and go home??? Seriously??

I was warned before buying by others that this kind of thing would happen. I chose to risk my investment anyways, because I believed in the product, and because the money doesn't really mean that much to me. But I gave Nick a $440 6-month loan to help float his business plan... and I pretty much had to bite my tongue when he acted like a tool - which he has. Now I have my product and I can write him off, because he's gone even further off the deep end. This isn't a new thing for him... not by a long shot. Illness or not, it doesn't make you "right" when you treat someone like crap when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DROPPED THE BALL.

Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, and IDGAS about the money - it's about principles. 

I vote for NOT breaking this thread off, because this kind of thing is EXACTLY what DIYMA is supposed to be about - the community helping each other out and NICK made his choice not only to participate here (as far as advertising his products), to utilize this place to shore up and support a business model he couldn't or didn't have the desire to fund on his own, to accept short-term loans from individuals on this forum in order to try to get a product to market, to try to increase his business reputation, and THEN shows his arse in accusing the people who funded his venture of screwing with HIM... when HE is the one who is dropping the ball.

Not cool.

*DO NOT SPLIT THIS THREAD OFF.... DIYMA participants deserve to see Nick's antics for themselves and make their own decisions based on his attitude and history, and they deserve to see it in the context of this thread so they can see Nick's instability, irritability, his condescension and his need to exert control over people he sees as lesser than him - Trump much????*

And when you see his antics... the way he talks to people, the way he treats his own customers, his past history of the same, etc., and he says I am coming in here and stirring the pot? lol. Sorry Nick, if you don't like people pointing out the FACTS of how you ACT... maybe you should act differently? I would assume by your attitude you would be PROUD of being how you are - so why do you complain when people highlight it?



Go complain to someone, get me banned, get this thread locked, my posts deleted, whatever, act like the fecking martyr you want to look like - but the bottom line is, no matter how much you whine to the mods, no matter how much you get things censored to protect yourself, you are the one who's caused this - not by dropping the ball, that's no big deal if you handle it well - by acting like it's everyone else's fault but yours and that everyone else should just suck it because you're so gd'd amazing.


----------



## Victor_inox

tRidiot said:


> Don't worry about Victor, he's shown his own rear enough times, as well. A reason he's on my /i list, and he's also shown his rear in the bad shipping thread, as well - of course he's going to side with someone like Nick who is telling paying customers who go out of their way to f*** off. I don't give a flying flip that Nick's health is bad as it pertains to this - his ATTITUDE is the problem, not even the issues with losing emails, not shipping, etc. He blatantly SAID he was going to ship, ADMITTED he got the email, then turned around later and blamed the buyer - who has copied the numerous messages and emails. If he would have just said, "Hey, I'm sorry man, I'm swamped with stuff here, I'll get it taken care of" and then DONE it... it would have been fine.
> 
> And you take my money for 6 months and then think you can just cancel my order and refund it after I've helped fund your business model because you got your crank twisted? That's your right, certainly... but as I said before, it is important that people here see what Nick's attitude is. Don't try to act like it's "No harm, no foul." There is most certainly a foul, this dude's been patiently waiting for 6 freaking months, which is months beyond when we were suggested the release would be, then has tried multiple times to contact Nick, with no response, then when he posts on here, simply asking what is up, Nick gets his panties in a wad and turns into the school yard kid who's going to take his ball (that someone else subsidized) and go home??? Seriously??
> 
> I was warned before buying by others that this kind of thing would happen. I chose to risk my investment anyways, because I believed in the product, and because the money doesn't really mean that much to me. But I gave Nick a $440 6-month loan to help float his business plan... and I pretty much had to bite my tongue when he acted like a tool - which he has. Now I have my product and I can write him off, because he's gone even further off the deep end. This isn't a new thing for him... not by a long shot. Illness or not, it doesn't make you "right" when you treat someone like crap when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
> 
> Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, and IDGAS about the money - it's about principles.
> 
> I vote for NOT breaking this thread off, because this kind of thing is EXACTLY what DIYMA is supposed to be about - the community helping each other out and NICK made his choice not only to participate here (as far as advertising his products), to utilize this place to shore up and support a business model he couldn't or didn't have the desire to fund on his own, to accept short-term loans from individuals on this forum in order to try to get a product to market, to try to increase his business reputation, and THEN shows his arse in accusing the people who funded his venture of screwing with HIM... when HE is the one who is dropping the ball.
> 
> Not cool.
> 
> *DO NOT SPLIT THIS THREAD OFF.... DIYMA participants deserve to see Nick's antics for themselves and make their own decisions based on his attitude and history, and they deserve to see it in the context of this thread so they can see Nick's instability, irritability, his condescension and his need to exert control over people he sees as lesser than him - Trump much????*
> 
> And when you see his antics... the way he talks to people, the way he treats his own customers, his past history of the same, etc., and he says I am coming in here and stirring the pot? lol. Sorry Nick, if you don't like people pointing out the FACTS of how you ACT... maybe you should act differently? I would assume by your attitude you would be PROUD of being how you are - so why do you complain when people highlight it?
> 
> 
> 
> Go complain to someone, get me banned, get this thread locked, my posts deleted, whatever, act like the fecking martyr you want to look like - but the bottom line is, no matter how much you whine to the mods, no matter how much you get things censored to protect yourself, you are the one who's caused this - not by dropping the ball, that's no big deal if you handle it well - by acting like it's everyone else's fault but yours and that everyone else should just suck it because you're so gd'd amazing.


Why would anybody worried about me here? You keep a grudge against me because I called you out for what you really are - an Idiot.
Now, keep ignoring me.


----------



## Mic10is

Nick I sent you an email to inquire about my order
thank you
take care sir


----------



## SkizeR

tRidiot said:


> Don't worry about Victor, he's shown his own rear enough times, as well. A reason he's on my /i list, and he's also shown his rear in the bad shipping thread, as well - of course he's going to side with someone like Nick who is telling paying customers who go out of their way to f*** off. I don't give a flying flip that Nick's health is bad as it pertains to this - his ATTITUDE is the problem, not even the issues with losing emails, not shipping, etc. He blatantly SAID he was going to ship, ADMITTED he got the email, then turned around later and blamed the buyer - who has copied the numerous messages and emails. If he would have just said, "Hey, I'm sorry man, I'm swamped with stuff here, I'll get it taken care of" and then DONE it... it would have been fine.
> 
> And you take my money for 6 months and then think you can just cancel my order and refund it after I've helped fund your business model because you got your crank twisted? That's your right, certainly... but as I said before, it is important that people here see what Nick's attitude is. Don't try to act like it's "No harm, no foul." There is most certainly a foul, this dude's been patiently waiting for 6 freaking months, which is months beyond when we were suggested the release would be, then has tried multiple times to contact Nick, with no response, then when he posts on here, simply asking what is up, Nick gets his panties in a wad and turns into the school yard kid who's going to take his ball (that someone else subsidized) and go home??? Seriously??
> 
> I was warned before buying by others that this kind of thing would happen. I chose to risk my investment anyways, because I believed in the product, and because the money doesn't really mean that much to me. But I gave Nick a $440 6-month loan to help float his business plan... and I pretty much had to bite my tongue when he acted like a tool - which he has. Now I have my product and I can write him off, because he's gone even further off the deep end. This isn't a new thing for him... not by a long shot. Illness or not, it doesn't make you "right" when you treat someone like crap when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
> 
> Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, and IDGAS about the money - it's about principles.
> 
> I vote for NOT breaking this thread off, because this kind of thing is EXACTLY what DIYMA is supposed to be about - the community helping each other out and NICK made his choice not only to participate here (as far as advertising his products), to utilize this place to shore up and support a business model he couldn't or didn't have the desire to fund on his own, to accept short-term loans from individuals on this forum in order to try to get a product to market, to try to increase his business reputation, and THEN shows his arse in accusing the people who funded his venture of screwing with HIM... when HE is the one who is dropping the ball.
> 
> Not cool.
> 
> *DO NOT SPLIT THIS THREAD OFF.... DIYMA participants deserve to see Nick's antics for themselves and make their own decisions based on his attitude and history, and they deserve to see it in the context of this thread so they can see Nick's instability, irritability, his condescension and his need to exert control over people he sees as lesser than him - Trump much????*
> 
> And when you see his antics... the way he talks to people, the way he treats his own customers, his past history of the same, etc., and he says I am coming in here and stirring the pot? lol. Sorry Nick, if you don't like people pointing out the FACTS of how you ACT... maybe you should act differently? I would assume by your attitude you would be PROUD of being how you are - so why do you complain when people highlight it?
> 
> 
> 
> Go complain to someone, get me banned, get this thread locked, my posts deleted, whatever, act like the fecking martyr you want to look like - but the bottom line is, no matter how much you whine to the mods, no matter how much you get things censored to protect yourself, you are the one who's caused this - not by dropping the ball, that's no big deal if you handle it well - by acting like it's everyone else's fault but yours and that everyone else should just suck it because you're so gd'd amazing.


x2x2x2x2x2x2!!!!

i would be livid if i was fishman. how the hell has this dude been allowed to sell and advertise here for this long? oh wait, hes a paying vendor :mean:


----------



## DavidRam

tRidiot said:


> Don't worry about Victor, he's shown his own rear enough times, as well. A reason he's on my /i list, and he's also shown his rear in the bad shipping thread, as well - of course he's going to side with someone like Nick who is telling paying customers who go out of their way to f*** off. I don't give a flying flip that Nick's health is bad as it pertains to this - his ATTITUDE is the problem, not even the issues with losing emails, not shipping, etc. He blatantly SAID he was going to ship, ADMITTED he got the email, then turned around later and blamed the buyer - who has copied the numerous messages and emails. If he would have just said, "Hey, I'm sorry man, I'm swamped with stuff here, I'll get it taken care of" and then DONE it... it would have been fine.
> 
> And you take my money for 6 months and then think you can just cancel my order and refund it after I've helped fund your business model because you got your crank twisted? That's your right, certainly... but as I said before, it is important that people here see what Nick's attitude is. Don't try to act like it's "No harm, no foul." There is most certainly a foul, this dude's been patiently waiting for 6 freaking months, which is months beyond when we were suggested the release would be, then has tried multiple times to contact Nick, with no response, then when he posts on here, simply asking what is up, Nick gets his panties in a wad and turns into the school yard kid who's going to take his ball (that someone else subsidized) and go home??? Seriously??
> 
> I was warned before buying by others that this kind of thing would happen. I chose to risk my investment anyways, because I believed in the product, and because the money doesn't really mean that much to me. But I gave Nick a $440 6-month loan to help float his business plan... and I pretty much had to bite my tongue when he acted like a tool - which he has. Now I have my product and I can write him off, because he's gone even further off the deep end. This isn't a new thing for him... not by a long shot. Illness or not, it doesn't make you "right" when you treat someone like crap when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
> 
> Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, and IDGAS about the money - it's about principles.
> 
> I vote for NOT breaking this thread off, because this kind of thing is EXACTLY what DIYMA is supposed to be about - the community helping each other out and NICK made his choice not only to participate here (as far as advertising his products), to utilize this place to shore up and support a business model he couldn't or didn't have the desire to fund on his own, to accept short-term loans from individuals on this forum in order to try to get a product to market, to try to increase his business reputation, and THEN shows his arse in accusing the people who funded his venture of screwing with HIM... when HE is the one who is dropping the ball.
> 
> Not cool.
> 
> *DO NOT SPLIT THIS THREAD OFF.... DIYMA participants deserve to see Nick's antics for themselves and make their own decisions based on his attitude and history, and they deserve to see it in the context of this thread so they can see Nick's instability, irritability, his condescension and his need to exert control over people he sees as lesser than him - Trump much????*
> 
> And when you see his antics... the way he talks to people, the way he treats his own customers, his past history of the same, etc., and he says I am coming in here and stirring the pot? lol. Sorry Nick, if you don't like people pointing out the FACTS of how you ACT... maybe you should act differently? I would assume by your attitude you would be PROUD of being how you are - so why do you complain when people highlight it?
> 
> 
> 
> Go complain to someone, get me banned, get this thread locked, my posts deleted, whatever, act like the fecking martyr you want to look like - but the bottom line is, no matter how much you whine to the mods, no matter how much you get things censored to protect yourself, you are the one who's caused this - not by dropping the ball, that's no big deal if you handle it well - by acting like it's everyone else's fault but yours and that everyone else should just suck it because you're so gd'd amazing.


I agree 100% ^^^


----------



## Lanson

GOOOD speakers though. Maybe just pass the torch to Jacob? That's the thing. These are things we need in this industry (speaker-wise.)


----------



## tRidiot

fourthmeal said:


> GOOOD speakers though. Maybe just pass the torch to Jacob? That's the thing. These are things we need in this industry (speaker-wise.)


I agree... some good product. But sadly, I will not pass it along, nor purchase to support his business any more. Just due to attitude. Very sad that in an industry where we need more of a personal touch, the touch we get is not the touch we want. :mean:


----------



## Babs

Y'all ***** all ya want. I've been enjoying the **** out of my mk1's. Want big production availability and quick order fulfillment.. Order some Frog GB60's. 

Ducking and running. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## tRidiot

Babs said:


> Y'all ***** all ya want. I've been enjoying the **** out of my mk1's. Want big production availability and quick order fulfillment.. Order some Frog GB60's.
> 
> Ducking and running.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Again... as I said, not even about the delays, not even about the dropped orders, not about any of that. It's the attitude of disdain and superiority. Period. A lot of that stuff can be overlooked in a one-man-shop kind of operation, especially if product and prices are great. But being treated like a POS is just too much.


----------



## Lanson

But Jacob's CS is awesome. They have a standing relationship (ships from Jacob's biz) so that's a logical solution. I want to see his products out there but I agree, CS is really off. I do training, support, and CS as a profession and even with a customer not being right all the time, there is usually an amicable solution that keeps folks satisfied, and contracts fulfilled. People are people, not machines or numbers on a form, nor a collection of emails, or anything. We're dynamic, and we all go through ****.


----------



## speakerman99

fourthmeal said:


> But Jacob's CS is awesome. They have a standing relationship (ships from Jacob's biz) so that's a logical solution. I want to see his products out there but I agree, CS is really off. I do training, support, and CS as a profession and even with a customer not being right all the time, there is usually an amicable solution that keeps folks satisfied, and contracts fulfilled. People are people, not machines or numbers on a form, nor a collection of emails, or anything. We're dynamic, and we all go through ****.




2x for the second part at least. Since we're all about letting this forum speak for our experiences. I had an issue with an SI sub that I purchased NIB, but second hand last year. Nick was kind enough to entertain my service request even though I was not the original purchaser. He even made a me a personal YouTube video with my driver to walk through his test. Ultimately turned out to be my issue, but I couldn't have asked for anything more. Like most things SI CS is neither all good or all bad. He does design some amazing products but with it comes some patience required. Reminds me of the old poster in my barber shop.....










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

I'm a QM (Quality Manager) in manufacturing.. So strikes me as as more customer service related than of actual product issues. I'll take those kinds of problems of getting the product out and communications over actual product issues any day from that role. I can only advise, patience and understanding. Hopefully SI will get the supply out to meet demand. Could be worse... We could all be looking at SEAS drivers and stuff because there simply weren't much out there for other options optimized for car installation. Wasn't that long ago that was the case. Once the SEAS Neo tweeters (mediocre at best) were THE forum tweeter boner. We've truly got it good now. There are actual companies attempting to cater to the SQ crowd. Thank goodness. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## 1fishman

schmiddr2 said:


> Stop posting all the useless crap. Go to OT as victor implied.



Do you know if the Forum's has a position on Nick breaking his sales agreements while doing business on this forum? It seems that critical post of Nick's actions are being deleted. Is it the forums position that Stereo Integrity's should be allowed to continue his unethical business practices on the DIYMA forum? 

Just to be clear, Nick / Stereo Integrity has not yet refunded me in full based on the terms of our agreement.


----------



## 1fishman

Victor_inox said:


> In quote you posted it was unclear.
> maybe he forgot he replied to fish emails, you 21 you don`t think that possibility can exist.
> 
> Nick`s health is bad, he is very sick,he could simply forgot details.
> He issued refund in full, what else one can expect from a guy? public apology?
> 
> Others, myself included just thankful he is still able to operate ..
> I`ve got my drivers and they are great despite chinese manufacturing.
> 
> You can either deal with Nick or wait for buildhouse who builds them start selling them on their own. (not uncommon practice)
> 
> Or look in classifieds.


I think you're confusing the facts, one of the facts is he did not reply to ANY of my emails. Not one, EVER! 

He only replied to my post here with all my info on it, AND HE THANKED ME FOR POSTING THE INFO HERE. and said they will be shipped Monday. 

Then i sent another Email Tuesday, looking for the shipping Info. NO reply. So thursday evening I posted here to find out the status of my speakers.
Then he said No speakers for me...


----------



## jriggs

Seriously, Victor and a few others, you're delusional. I know Nicknis sick, but why does that give home a free pass? Delegate to someone who can manage customer service and general communications if you are too sick to stay on top of it all.

But we know this has pretty much been the way he has always operated and it should not be tolerated. AND a refund was not ever asked for by 1fishman. 

Yes Victor, the quality is good, but really?


----------



## Victor_inox

1fishman said:


> I think you're confusing the facts, one of the facts is he did not reply to ANY of my emails. Not one, EVER!
> 
> He only replied to my post here with all my info on it, AND HE THANKED ME FOR POSTING THE INFO HERE. and said they will be shipped Monday.
> 
> Then i sent another Email Tuesday, looking for the shipping Info. NO reply. So thursday evening I posted here to find out the status of my speakers.
> Then he said No speakers for me...


Mexican soap opera.


----------



## maybebigfootisblurr

I know this is some pretty high-tech ****, but I found a solution to the problem... It's this new thing called a "spread sheet". Have no fear, it seems to be pretty useful.


----------



## Victor_inox

jriggs said:


> Seriously, Victor and a few others, you're delusional. I know Nicknis sick, but why does that give home a free pass? Delegate to someone who can manage customer service and general communications if you are too sick to stay on top of it all.
> 
> But we know this has pretty much been the way he has always operated and it should not be tolerated. AND a refund was not ever asked for by 1fishman.
> 
> Yes Victor, the quality is good, but really?


I`m not protecting anyone I just hate jumping to conclusions. 
DO you think it`s easy to admit to yourself? Do you think you know all your shortcomings? 
who said anything about free pass? there is itrader feedback that has not been posted yet. So i`ts either 1 fishman not completely pissed off or he expect Nick to backpedal. I ain`t Nick I can`t fix this. 


now we involved in "he said she said"

I bought a few things from SI website, never talk to Nick, never has to. 
Every time things arrived on time and in good condition. 

I even received some speakers for guy overseas because SI won`t ship there. So I did. 

Part I don`t get is that Nick said refund issued but 1fishman said it isn`t true,so what is it?


----------



## jriggs

tRidiot said:


> Don't worry about Victor, he's shown his own rear enough times, as well. A reason he's on my /i list, and he's also shown his rear in the bad shipping thread, as well - of course he's going to side with someone like Nick who is telling paying customers who go out of their way to f*** off. I don't give a flying flip that Nick's health is bad as it pertains to this - his ATTITUDE is the problem, not even the issues with losing emails, not shipping, etc. He blatantly SAID he was going to ship, ADMITTED he got the email, then turned around later and blamed the buyer - who has copied the numerous messages and emails. If he would have just said, "Hey, I'm sorry man, I'm swamped with stuff here, I'll get it taken care of" and then DONE it... it would have been fine.
> 
> And you take my money for 6 months and then think you can just cancel my order and refund it after I've helped fund your business model because you got your crank twisted? That's your right, certainly... but as I said before, it is important that people here see what Nick's attitude is. Don't try to act like it's "No harm, no foul." There is most certainly a foul, this dude's been patiently waiting for 6 freaking months, which is months beyond when we were suggested the release would be, then has tried multiple times to contact Nick, with no response, then when he posts on here, simply asking what is up, Nick gets his panties in a wad and turns into the school yard kid who's going to take his ball (that someone else subsidized) and go home??? Seriously??
> 
> I was warned before buying by others that this kind of thing would happen. I chose to risk my investment anyways, because I believed in the product, and because the money doesn't really mean that much to me. But I gave Nick a $440 6-month loan to help float his business plan... and I pretty much had to bite my tongue when he acted like a tool - which he has. Now I have my product and I can write him off, because he's gone even further off the deep end. This isn't a new thing for him... not by a long shot. Illness or not, it doesn't make you "right" when you treat someone like crap when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
> 
> Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, and IDGAS about the money - it's about principles.
> 
> I vote for NOT breaking this thread off, because this kind of thing is EXACTLY what DIYMA is supposed to be about - the community helping each other out and NICK made his choice not only to participate here (as far as advertising his products), to utilize this place to shore up and support a business model he couldn't or didn't have the desire to fund on his own, to accept short-term loans from individuals on this forum in order to try to get a product to market, to try to increase his business reputation, and THEN shows his arse in accusing the people who funded his venture of screwing with HIM... when HE is the one who is dropping the ball.
> 
> Not cool.
> 
> *DO NOT SPLIT THIS THREAD OFF.... DIYMA participants deserve to see Nick's antics for themselves and make their own decisions based on his attitude and history, and they deserve to see it in the context of this thread so they can see Nick's instability, irritability, his condescension and his need to exert control over people he sees as lesser than him - Trump much????*
> 
> And when you see his antics... the way he talks to people, the way he treats his own customers, his past history of the same, etc., and he says I am coming in here and stirring the pot? lol. Sorry Nick, if you don't like people pointing out the FACTS of how you ACT... maybe you should act differently? I would assume by your attitude you would be PROUD of being how you are - so why do you complain when people highlight it?
> 
> 
> 
> Go complain to someone, get me banned, get this thread locked, my posts deleted, whatever, act like the fecking martyr you want to look like - but the bottom line is, no matter how much you whine to the mods, no matter how much you get things censored to protect yourself, you are the one who's caused this - not by dropping the ball, that's no big deal if you handle it well - by acting like it's everyone else's fault but yours and that everyone else should just suck it because you're so gd'd amazing.


YES! Thank you.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Victor_inox said:


> Part I don`t get is that Nick said refund issued but 1fishman said it isn`t true,so what is it?


Yeah for real. If he can't get the speakers at least give him his money.
Unless Nick gave the wrong refund...then another person is going to be quite upset


----------



## schmiddr2

1fishman said:


> Do you know if the Forum's has a position on Nick breaking his sales agreements while doing business on this forum? *It seems that critical post of Nick's actions are being deleted.* Is it the forums position that Stereo Integrity's should be allowed to continue his unethical business practices on the DIYMA forum?
> 
> Just to be clear, Nick / Stereo Integrity has not yet refunded me in full based on the terms of our agreement.


Incorrect.

It's not my website. I don't have a say in what a vendor can do. I'm sorry for your situation, it's unfair.


----------



## Weigel21

While I don't exactly agree with the way Nick behaves on the forum and how it appears he has treated some customers (though I know not all the facts) I can only speak of my experiences with him. I've bought a Mag V3 and TM65 MKI's from him issue free. Fast forwards to the M25's and mine arrived with the box a bit crushed and torn. I took photos of the packaging before and while removing the tweeters and found the protective hard plastic housing for the wiring to have been pulled from the housing of the tweeter and the exposed wiring to appear to have the insulation cut (almost as if by wire strippers). I Emailed Nick with my concerns and he replied the next day asking for me to send him the photos and that he'd contact Fedex to submit a claim. I did so and waited. 

Eight days later, I got an email from him asking me to call him as the number on my order didn't work for him to reach me. I called him the next day and truth be told, he seemed like a stand up guy. He was going to get right on top of getting Fedex to pickup the speakers so they could be returned for inspection. 

Now, let me say this up front that I specifically told him I was in NO hurry and truth be told, I wasn't. 

Well, 23 days later, I emailed him again asking for an update with Fedex. He messaged me back that very day apologizing for not staying on top of it and requested I call him the next day. I did so and this time I carried on a conversation with him about car audio in general for probably 20 minutes. Despite the issues I'd had with getting warranty work done, I really enjoyed talking to him and he seemed like a great guy, just perhaps with a bit much on his plate. With that phone call he said he would be shipping out a new set of tweeters and include a return shipping label for me to return the potentially defective (or maybe perfectly fine) tweeters. I think it was 5 days later that the replacements arrived with the return shipping label. I shipped back the originals and while I did inquire a couple times about weather or not they did in fact have any cause for alarm. I never got an answer, but no biggie. I mean it really doesn't matter, the transaction was complete, so there really was no need for further talk about something that no longer pertained to myself. 

So yeah, it took some time, but I honestly wasn't in a rush. Hell, I still haven't even opened the Mag V3 or the TM65's I bought and the M25's remain unused. Have TM65 MKII's on the way as well, LOL. 

But anyways, Nick has never been rude to me personally in any way, so I have no issues with him myself. Granted, if I had been waiting for the replacements to finish an install, I may very well have gotten a bit upset with the situation. so in that regard, I can understand where some people may have had some potentially major issues.


----------



## Iamsecond

Enough already. I think we all get it.
1fishman, go deal with SI off this forum. We get it. Your upset about not getting the speakers. Let it go.
Nick has made his decision. Let it go
Everyone has an opinion, fine, let it go.
I think we have established everything about this derail so can we please get back to the SI tm65.

I got mine today. Stopped by the warehouse and got to hang out with Nick for a bit. it was cool seeing 5 24s on the bench being built and talk shop. 

I got my tm65's home and took them out. Many they are awesome to look at.
I can't wait to get them in the 4-runner.

Also, guys, when you get them can you please start a new review thread. This thread has spiraled into basically worthless banter that will never get back to car audio and away from personalities.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

"You're upset about not getting the speakers, let it go"..."man they are beautiful to look at." Haha savage.

The v1's are definitely pretty. I've had mine in my doors for a couple years now, I love them. Didn't get the chance to get the v2's though.


----------



## Iamsecond

Lol, I guess that came off wrong. Haha. 
I didn't care for the way the v1 looked but hey, they are hidden in the door. The v2, it's almost a shame to put them behind a panel.


----------



## Coppertone

I'm glad for those who were able to get theirs and installed already. Looking forward to grabbing a set as well as the tweeters to add to my car audio room.


----------



## SQLnovice

I got my MK1 installed a few weeks ago and they blend so well with my JBL 12GTI. I seriously don't want to take them out and install the MKII. Maybe my noob ears might not notice the improvement. I'll hold off on installing the MKII for a while or just save them for a future install.


----------



## Alrojoca

SQLnovice said:


> I got my MK1 installed a few weeks ago and they blend so well with my JBL 12GTI. I seriously don't want to take them out and install the MKII. Maybe my noob ears might not notice the improvement. I'll hold off on installing the MKII for a while or just save them for a future install.


It's good to have a 2 ohm option for car audio and a 8 ohm load for a home speaker.


----------



## Victor_inox

Alrojoca said:


> It's good to have a 2 ohm option for car audio and a 8 ohm load for a home speaker.


Home version without that ridiculous rain shield please...

Probably not gonna happen anyway.


----------



## nineball76

Nick won't consider an 8" or 3", why would he tool an unnecessary basket change for a perfectly competent driver? One that's purely a cosmetic change.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> Because you posted the latter this is one less headache you have to deal with. You have been refunded due to a conflict of interest [what you posted]. I did not run off with your money - I simply sent your money back to you and cancelled your order. No harm, no foul.


Your partial refund is not going to cut it. You need to refund me in full, based on current retail value. So you owe me $70 please pay ASAP.


----------



## 1fishman

tRidiot said:


> Don't worry about Victor, he's shown his own rear enough times, as well. A reason he's on my /i list, and he's also shown his rear in the bad shipping thread, as well - of course he's going to side with someone like Nick who is telling paying customers who go out of their way to f*** off. I don't give a flying flip that Nick's health is bad as it pertains to this - his ATTITUDE is the problem, not even the issues with losing emails, not shipping, etc. He blatantly SAID he was going to ship, ADMITTED he got the email, then turned around later and blamed the buyer - who has copied the numerous messages and emails. If he would have just said, "Hey, I'm sorry man, I'm swamped with stuff here, I'll get it taken care of" and then DONE it... it would have been fine.
> 
> And you take my money for 6 months and then think you can just cancel my order and refund it after I've helped fund your business model because you got your crank twisted? That's your right, certainly... but as I said before, it is important that people here see what Nick's attitude is. Don't try to act like it's "No harm, no foul." There is most certainly a foul, this dude's been patiently waiting for 6 freaking months, which is months beyond when we were suggested the release would be, then has tried multiple times to contact Nick, with no response, then when he posts on here, simply asking what is up, Nick gets his panties in a wad and turns into the school yard kid who's going to take his ball (that someone else subsidized) and go home??? Seriously??
> 
> I was warned before buying by others that this kind of thing would happen. I chose to risk my investment anyways, because I believed in the product, and because the money doesn't really mean that much to me. But I gave Nick a $440 6-month loan to help float his business plan... and I pretty much had to bite my tongue when he acted like a tool - which he has. Now I have my product and I can write him off, because he's gone even further off the deep end. This isn't a new thing for him... not by a long shot. Illness or not, it doesn't make you "right" when you treat someone like crap when YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
> 
> Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, and IDGAS about the money - it's about principles.
> 
> I vote for NOT breaking this thread off, because this kind of thing is EXACTLY what DIYMA is supposed to be about - the community helping each other out and NICK made his choice not only to participate here (as far as advertising his products), to utilize this place to shore up and support a business model he couldn't or didn't have the desire to fund on his own, to accept short-term loans from individuals on this forum in order to try to get a product to market, to try to increase his business reputation, and THEN shows his arse in accusing the people who funded his venture of screwing with HIM... when HE is the one who is dropping the ball.
> 
> Not cool.
> 
> *DO NOT SPLIT THIS THREAD OFF.... DIYMA participants deserve to see Nick's antics for themselves and make their own decisions based on his attitude and history, and they deserve to see it in the context of this thread so they can see Nick's instability, irritability, his condescension and his need to exert control over people he sees as lesser than him - Trump much????*
> 
> And when you see his antics... the way he talks to people, the way he treats his own customers, his past history of the same, etc., and he says I am coming in here and stirring the pot? lol. Sorry Nick, if you don't like people pointing out the FACTS of how you ACT... maybe you should act differently? I would assume by your attitude you would be PROUD of being how you are - so why do you complain when people highlight it?
> 
> 
> 
> Go complain to someone, get me banned, get this thread locked, my posts deleted, whatever, act like the fecking martyr you want to look like - but the bottom line is, no matter how much you whine to the mods, no matter how much you get things censored to protect yourself, you are the one who's caused this - not by dropping the ball, that's no big deal if you handle it well - by acting like it's everyone else's fault but yours and that everyone else should just suck it because you're so gd'd amazing.


Where's the like button


----------



## Victor_inox

1fishman said:


> Your partial refund is not going to cut it. You need to refund me in full, based on current retail value. So you owe me $70 please pay ASAP.


Lovely. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Alrojoca

Where did the 8" and rain shield topic come from? I was talking about the V1 8 ohm version :laugh:


----------



## nineball76

Home version without rain shield. Sorry of I assumed you would mean a mkii in the mkii thread.


----------



## norurb

1fishman said:


> Your partial refund is not going to cut it. You need to refund me in full, based on current retail value. So you owe me $70 please pay ASAP.


That's just foolish. You lost your credibility with me.


----------



## Alrojoca

nineball76 said:


> Home version without rain shield. Sorry of I assumed you would mean a mkii in the mkii thread.





SQLnovice said:


> I got my MK1 installed a few weeks ago and they blend so well with my JBL 12GTI. I seriously don't want to take them out and install the MKII. Maybe my noob ears might not notice the improvement. I'll hold off on installing the MKII for a while or just save them for a future install.




I was replying to this post, yes I know it's of topic but at least somehow a comparison to the old one.


----------



## Victor_inox

nineball76 said:


> Home version without rain shield. Sorry of I assumed you would mean a mkii in the mkii thread.


ditto


----------



## SQLnovice

1fishman said:


> Your partial refund is not going to cut it. You need to refund me in full, based on current retail value. So you owe me $70 please pay ASAP.


Just curious, how much were you charged and how much refunded?


----------



## RRizz

ahhh, Cabin Fever.....Lol


----------



## Iamsecond

Wait, you don't get to pay a preorder price and then demand the full retail refund. Lol. I'm with you man 1fishman, no credibility. You said he didn't give you your money back. Lie. Then you come out with, he didn't give me a full refund because he will not give me more than I paid. Seriously. Apparently nick was right about 1fishman. Seems things are not what they appear after all. Dealers don't want to deal with people like this because they will eventually do something like this. 

Anyway. Someone help me understand why people are so upset about the rain shield. I like the idea. It doesn't hurt anything. You might have to do a little more training or be more careful with the spacer but it's really not a big deal. Amazingly someone was complaining because it didn't have the old spade terminals. What gives. Do we have to find something to complain about? Why? 

Enjoy the speakers. Life is really not this hard.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Your partial refund is not going to cut it. You need to refund me in full, based on current retail value. So you owe me $70 please pay ASAP.


You were refunded what you paid 100%. But I do thank you for permanently solidifying your own spot on our Do Not Sell List.


----------



## SQLnovice

Iamsecond said:


> Wait, you don't get to pay a preorder price and then demand the full retail refund.


This is exactly what I was trying to get at.


----------



## Iamsecond

So, moment of truth. 1fishman how much did you pay originally for the preorder? 
If you say 178 then you are a liar for saying you didn't get a full refund.
If you say you paid retail then again, you are liar. You paid the presale amount. 
Leave it alone, let it go. You got your money back.
Anyway if you feel this way why do you want to do business with si?


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Iamsecond said:


> So, moment of truth. 1fishman how much did you pay originally for the preorder?
> 
> If you say 178 then you are a liar for saying you didn't get a full refund.
> 
> If you say you paid retail then again, you are liar. You paid the presale amount.
> 
> Leave it alone, let it go. You got your money back.
> 
> Anyway if you feel this way why do you want to do business with si?




Why do you keep attacking him? Weren't you the one that wanted to get this thread back on track? Let it go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iamsecond

No attack just a question. 

I'm good with let's get on with it. So lets call it done and move on.


----------



## Tcm35s

I don't get this he ordered a product from a company. He sent emails to that company. Never got a response from that company. Had to come on a open forum to get the company to respond. The company said thank you for posting and that they never received the email. Then a response is posted by the company that they are going to ship his order that is paid for. Then the company is asked by other members on here why you didn't ship when you said you would. And no word. But when the customer says something (which I don't agree with him asking for a different refund price that is not right in it self)the company come to the forum to show everyone that they refunded the customer money but where is your response when people ask why he was told that his order is going to ship and never was. 
I owner a small service company if I lied to people like this my family wouldn't have a roof over there head. The difference between me and this company is that my only source of income is customer service as I offer no product.


----------



## Iamsecond

Has anyone seen the si website. Si tm65 out of stock. Folks, they are gone. The originals were amazing and the second run sold out faster than the originals. 
I would love to see how one or two of these would do in a transmission line box simply for low end. Any thoughts?


----------



## Victor_inox

Iamsecond said:


> Someone help me understand why people are so upset about the rain shield. I like the idea. It doesn't hurt anything. You might have to do a little more training or be more careful with the spacer but it's really not a big deal. Amazingly someone was complaining because it didn't have the old spade terminals. What gives. Do we have to find something to complain about? Why?
> 
> Enjoy the speakers. Life is really not this hard.



You got it all wrong.
nobody upset about rain shield and terminals. 

More often than not product improved by customer feedback provided.

companies collect feedback and make changes based on what most people want.


----------



## Iamsecond

Agreed. Good point. It just seemed as though a few comments have been made about the rain shield and it not being liked.


----------



## tRidiot

1fishman said:


> Your partial refund is not going to cut it. You need to refund me in full, based on current retail value. So you owe me $70 please pay ASAP.


Mmmm yeah, no, I can't get on board with this.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> You were refunded what you paid 100%. But I do thank you for permanently solidifying your own spot on our Do Not Sell List.


You came here and asked for (A) money $89, plus (B) time with the money, and in return you offered (C) TM65 MKII. 
The value of A, & B, is equal to C. 

I've given you every opportunity...


----------



## Victor_inox

Iamsecond said:


> Agreed. Good point. It just seemed as though a few comments have been made about the rain shield and it not being liked.


 rain shield kinda makes that basket looks unique. As far as actually guarding anything- don`t know about that. 

concave cone is my fav feature in looks department, tired of useless phase plugs in big drivers, non protected vent hole in the back is most concern I have about that driver if any. I might come up with something to protect that hole before mounting drivers in my doors.


----------



## Victor_inox

1fishman said:


> You came here and asked for (A) money $89, plus (B) time with the money, and in return you offered (C) TM65 MKII.
> The value of A, & B, is equal to C.
> 
> I've given you every opportunity...


 When you expect return on investment you better not to piss off your hedge fund manager.


----------



## Iamsecond

Agreed about the driver details. Shame these have to be hidden.


----------



## Viggen

1fishman said:


> You came here and asked for (A) money $89, plus (B) time with the money, and in return you offered (C) TM65 MKII.
> The value of A, & B, is equal to C.
> 
> I've given you every opportunity...


I am new to this thread and trying to figure out what you want

Your stating you paid $89 each but should be reimbursed $129 each

Or are you asking for interest on the $89 ea for however long he had the money?

Or am I totally off with my assumptions?


----------



## Victor_inox

Iamsecond said:


> Agreed about the driver details. Shame these have to be hidden.


 unless you make them into bookshelf speakers with M25 in tandem.


----------



## Iamsecond

Funny you say that. I had actually given thought to that. How would these do in a shelf speaker or a double stack 6.5 and tweet tower speaker.


----------



## Victor_inox

Iamsecond said:


> Funny you say that. I had actually given thought to that. How would these do in a shelf speaker or a double stack 6.5 and tweet tower speaker.


Thats where 8ohm version would come handy.making proper crossover for dual 4 ohm woofers but one 4ohm tweet is not fun project to take. Single mkii with tweet would be more realistic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

Victor_inox said:


> Thats where 8ohm version would come handy.making proper crossover for dual 4 ohm woofers but one 4ohm tweet is not fun project to take. Single mkii with tweet would be more realistic.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Couldnt it be easily done with something like the Audiocontrol 2xs active crossover???


----------



## Iamsecond

I was actually thinking with mini dsp and power so cheap an active tower set up would be cool. But. I want to get my auto system going first. I finished our theater last year and I'm happy.


----------



## Victor_inox

Iamsecond said:


> I was actually thinking with mini dsp and power so cheap an active tower set up would be cool. But. I want to get my auto system going first. I finished our theater last year and I'm happy.


 yeah with dsp it would be easier. You`d have rat's nest of wires though.


----------



## Alrojoca

Iamsecond said:


> Funny you say that. I had actually given thought to that. How would these do in a shelf speaker or a double stack 6.5 and tweet tower speaker.


That is where the original V1 offers more flexibility as a home option with the 8 ohm load.

Higher Qts and FS specs suits better for free air speakers, not sealed boxes or even ported enclosures


----------



## schmiddr2

I've deleted dozens of useless posts. And before your conspiracy theories grow any larger, they were all way off topic (on topic = the speakers or order related questions, including the whole cancellation of order debacle). The only reason I stepped into this is because of the same problem that happens in every thread with this level of intrigue, people start to treat the thread like a post-a-thon and feel they have to reply to everything which drags it all way OT. I asked people to stop, since they cannot help themselves, this is the result.

Yes, the website had some kind of problem; posts were not showing up once the thread was opened, but you could see that new posts had been made by clicking new posts. *You want to discuss this? Find the appropriate place, like the site feedback forum.* Had to bold this for Victor.


----------



## bassfromspace

Nick,

I sent you an email to [email protected] looking for a status update on order #1910.

Thanks!


----------



## brainbot1

They are in! Order placed in September, install in February. Definitely a reminder that doors are non ideal enclosures for speakers with a high amount of bass response but so far, in love with these. Did as much deadening as I could but sounds like my door handle itself is the issue, which isn't an easy fix. As long as I turn up the volume loud enough, its not an issue.


----------



## Alrojoca

brainbot1 said:


> They are in! Order placed in September, install in February. Definitely a reminder that doors are non ideal enclosures for speakers with a high amount of bass response but so far, in love with these. Did as much deadening as I could but sounds like my door handle itself is the issue, which isn't an easy fix. As long as I turn up the volume loud enough, its not an issue.



Looks good! 

WARRANTY VOID! Not using the original included screws.


----------



## tRidiot

Alrojoca said:


> Looks good!
> 
> WARRANTY VOID! Not using the original included screws.


That was exactly my first thought... and not with a smilie. Bad idea posting that picture, man.  Glad you're happy with them, but... oh well.


----------



## Lanson

Looking great! You should edit the picture and blur out your screws. LOL.

Stopping a door handle from rattling? Maybe add felt in strategic places? Each one has a different fix though. Perhaps for another thread.


----------



## Alrojoca

Ok ok ok! I did not mean to reply to the pic. I will remove the URL from the post


----------



## Niebur3

Why do specific screws have to be used to maintain a warranty?


----------



## Victor_inox

Niebur3 said:


> Why do specific screws have to be used to maintain a warranty?


bigger screws will touch and potentially disturb surround.


----------



## Niebur3

Like touch inappropriately?  Interesting, Never heard of that being an issue before. I wonder how that is going to be enforced.


----------



## Victor_inox

Niebur3 said:


> Like touch inappropriately?  Interesting, Never heard of that being an issue before. I wonder how that is going to be enforced.


Don`t shoot the messenger....


----------



## Theslaking

Niebur3 said:


> Why do specific screws have to be used to maintain a warranty?


Because there is a big paper in the box that says so!


----------



## Victor_inox

Theslaking said:


> Because there is a big paper in the box that says so!


Throw away the paper-case solved!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## dsquared

Victor_inox said:


> Throw away the paper-case solved!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk




Lol... that works. Actually Nick posted it somewhere within this thread and was pretty strict on the screws .
BTW, Anybody buy an extra set of these .
I've been shopping around for new mids and missed these on the SI sight.
Sold out fast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Victor_inox said:


> Throw away the paper-case solved!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Damn it! I didn't think of that.

I just used the screws that were provided. Well... because they were there, they fit, and didn't cost anything extra.


----------



## Victor_inox

Theslaking said:


> Damn it! I didn't think of that.
> 
> I just used the screws that were provided. Well... because they were there, they fit, and didn't cost anything extra.


Same head screws can be bought at hardware store for those who lost theirs.or needed fine threads or metric.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------



## Mic10is

Bc it's a one piece surround attached to the gasket using a larger diameter head screw can pull on the surround and cause it to shift or worse to rip. That would be installer error and will not be covered under warranty. So long as you are using a similar diameter head size there shouldn't be an issue


----------



## Iamsecond

You ask how it will be enforced. Well use different size me type and mess up the surround and send it in for warranty. Then you will get an email saying it's not under warranty and then someone will get in this forum and go biizerk saying nick is crazy. Just a bit young in cheek. 
But as my mechanic says, you can lie to me about what you did but your mechanic ALWAYS knows what you did. 
Certain common mistakes and actions leave tell tell marks and things tend to tear up consistently when certain actions or other screws are used.
Just FYI. This has already happened. Not to me but to another person who sent them back saying he used the proper screws but it was very evident that was not the case.


----------



## bassfromspace

I've got a complete SI active set for sale with the m25's and mk2's.


----------



## schmiddr2

Bassfromspace2 said:


> I've got a complete SI active set for sale with the m25's and mk2's.


Can you not login to your old account?


----------



## bassfromspace

schmiddr2 said:


> Can you not login to your old account?


Unfortunately not. I lost access after that big snafu.


----------



## Mic10is

Received mine.thanks nick


----------



## New Super Admin

Bassfromspace2 said:


> Unfortunately not. I lost access after that big snafu.


Hey,

Sent you a pm with details to get back into your old account.

Niall


----------



## Flinchy

Is there a shipping date set yet?

edit: ah seems I got lost in the rush perhaps, no worry


----------



## Electrodynamic

Flinchy said:


> Is there a shipping date set yet?
> 
> edit: ah seems I got lost in the rush perhaps, no worry


Not lost, I just need some more info before I ship your order to a forwarding agent. Shoot me an email and we will get things sorted out.


----------



## reednatron

Order placed for current production run. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dawaro

So I sort of got mine installed today...

They are installed in the doors of my F150 and even though they are running full range off the factory Sony amp without the door panels installed...Holy Hell these things rock!

The amount of midbass is incredible and extremely smooth. I got them installed this afternoon and decided to run them off the factory Sony amp just to break them in and I was completely blown away. I cant wait to actually get the door panels on and hook them up to a real amp and a clean signal.


----------



## reednatron

dawaro said:


> So I sort of got mine installed today...
> 
> 
> 
> They are installed in the doors of my F150 and even though they are running full range off the factory Sony amp without the door panels installed...Holy Hell these things rock!
> 
> 
> 
> The amount of midbass is incredible and extremely smooth. I got them installed this afternoon and decided to run them off the factory Sony amp just to break them in and I was completely blown away. I cant wait to actually get the door panels on and hook them up to a real amp and a clean signal.




What year F150? Just curious about the fit as mine will be going into a 2014 super crew. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fcarpio

In my experience, 'v2' is a new version and '.2' is a revised version. Either way, I am glad that these are back and that I may get to try them.


----------



## dawaro

reednatron said:


> What year F150? Just curious about the fit as mine will be going into a 2014 super crew.


Mine is also a 2014 SCREW but it would be hard to say about the fit. I had previously cut the speaker holes out to 8"x8" to build enclosures in the door so just about anything would just drop in.

Depth wont be an issue but I do think you will have to trim some metal to clear the diameter.


----------



## thereddestdog

bassfromspace said:


> I've got a complete SI active set for sale with the m25's and mk2's.


Not anymore


----------



## tRidiot




----------



## thereddestdog

That looks awesome! What vehicle is it? and probably wired in series, right?


----------



## fcarpio

tRidiot said:


>


So, what is the point of having two midbasses? Not criticizing, just wondering if I am missing on something.


----------



## JVD240

Efficiency. Greater output.


----------



## Boostedrex

Your poor doors are in for a beating tR!! LOL!!!! I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on them once you get everything dialed in.


----------



## Alrojoca

Gonna need a 300w/Ch amp to drive 2 sets of those per door


----------



## tRidiot

fcarpio said:


> So, what is the point of having two midbasses? Not criticizing, just wondering if I am missing on something.


To get loud?



Alrojoca said:


> Gonna need a 300w/Ch amp to drive 2 sets of those per door


I have 150x6 for the front stage.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


>


I know what two TM65 mkII's are capable of in a mk4 Jetta sedan so I must ask - what do you think of the performance with four of them?


----------



## quickaudi07

I would say no need for subs  holy cow thats awesome!


----------



## tRidiot

Electrodynamic said:


> I know what two TM65 mkII's are capable of in a mk4 Jetta sedan so I must ask - what do you think of the performance with four of them?


I an headed to pick up the truck this morning, so we will see. I should have time this afternoon to play around with it - if I can get the GD'd processor to connect to a computer! My installer tried 3 different laptops, none of which would connect. I have at times been able to get one to work, but we will see what happens.


I may have a Zapco Z8 with a .357-sized hole in the center in the classifieds by week's end. :mean:


----------



## norurb

Yes, they sound glorious.


----------



## Electrodynamic

norurb said:


> Yes, they sound glorious.


Awesome little bookshelf speaker. Ported too - the response should feel larger than the small bookshelf size depicts.


----------



## thereddestdog

Very excited to receive my set in the mail tomorrow


----------



## Electrodynamic

tRidiot said:


> I an headed to pick up the truck this morning, so we will see. I should have time this afternoon to play around with it - if I can get the GD'd processor to connect to a computer! My installer tried 3 different laptops, none of which would connect. I have at times been able to get one to work, but we will see what happens.
> 
> 
> I may have a Zapco Z8 with a .357-sized hole in the center in the classifieds by week's end. :mean:


I feel your pain. I've got an RF 3sixty.2 that will soon have a .40 caliber hole in it. Doing so will bring more joy than selling it for $20 to someone who can try to fix it.


----------



## norurb

Electrodynamic said:


> Awesome little bookshelf speaker. Ported too - the response should feel larger than the small bookshelf size depicts.


It's true these do not struggle to hit the low notes. Sadly, I only have 45 watts to each driver. But I'm working on that.


----------



## Theslaking

Electrodynamic said:


> I feel your pain. I've got an RF 3sixty.2 that will soon have a .40 caliber hole in it. Doing so will bring more joy than selling it for $20 to someone who can try to fix it.


I'm in the same boat as you two with my C-DSP. We should wait until April 8th and shoot them together

I have had my TM's playing. I must also say that the output is fantastic. As my DSP has been acting up I actually ran them full range for a couple days and they flat out impressed me there. You can tell where they lose it but the upper and lower thresholds are definitely farther apart than you would think.


----------



## dsquared

norurb said:


> It's true these do not struggle to hit the low notes. Sadly, I only have 45 watts to each driver. But I'm working on that.


We call that ***** power. ? Not the kind we are used to but bring on 120-150 and these things really sound good.


----------



## Electrodynamic

A few production pics from this current production run:

Baskets and terminals:









Motors being assembled:









Motors mated to baskets:


----------



## soundquality4me

NEED MORE REVIEWS POSTED!


----------



## Electrodynamic

There are a couple reviews being posted in the review section.


----------



## Boostedrex

I'll have 2 different reviews coming up for these drivers. 1 used as traditional midbass drivers. And 1 where they'll be used as subs in a transmission line setup.


----------



## CSEmoses

can you send a driver to @ErinH for some technical analysis please?


----------



## captainobvious

CSEmoses said:


> can you send a driver to @ErinH for some technical analysis please?


Have you consulted with Erin about that request and did he agree to do this?


----------



## Victor_inox

CSEmoses said:


> can you send a driver to @ErinH for some technical analysis please?


Why would he be bothered, they sold faster than produced. 
buy a pair, send it to ErinIF he agreed test them.

or build yourself test lab, learn how to to do and waste your own time for free for thankful ( and not) members


----------



## CSEmoses

captainobvious said:


> Have you consulted with Erin about that request and did he agree to do this?


No, I'd imagine that the OP would do that if he was interested in some detailed analysis. 

I hadn't noted the graphs posted on the SI website when i made that comment. Still, it would be nice read some analysis of what those graphs mean.


----------



## Kazuhiro

I wonder how a pair of these would sound in a rear deck operating as an IB woofer? (and in a small coupe )


----------



## CSEmoses

didn't know that @ErinH wasn't doing analysis anymore. /sadface 
His writeups were sooo informitive!


----------



## Electrodynamic

CSEmoses said:


> didn't know that @ErinH wasn't doing analysis anymore. /sadface
> His writeups were sooo informitive!


^ I had contacted Erin a while ago about taking measurements but he reported that he isn't doing measurements anymore. I tried though. 

*edit* I think Erin is going to be at the NC GTG this weekend. I'll give him a demo of my TM65 mkII's and M25 tweeters then he can report about their performance in here if he wants.


----------



## norurb

The only result from any analysis: They kick ass and sound beautiful doing it. Like Kate Beckinsale in Underworld.


----------



## tRidiot

Mine have been great. Now I have a new processor installed and have to completely start over from a tuning standpoint. I'll get there, but the bottom line is, after installing 2 pair in my Tahoe.... I went and ordered a 3rd pair to replace the Dyn MW162s in my 370z.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Kazuhiro said:


> I wonder how a pair of these would sound in a rear deck operating as an IB woofer? (and in a small coupe )


A little lower power handling if being used IB in a trunk vs. a car door, but overall great performance being used in that application.


----------



## rob feature

I finally got to put my hands (and ears) on these today. I came straight home and ordered a pair :laugh:. Nice work Nick!


----------



## Victor_inox

rob feature said:


> I finally got to put my hands (and ears) on these today. I came straight home and ordered a pair :laugh:. Nice work Nick!


----------



## rob feature

Victor_inox said:


>


You're a bad influence


----------



## Victor_inox

rob feature said:


> You're a bad influence


I`ve heard that before....


----------



## Electrodynamic

rob feature said:


> I finally got to put my hands (and ears) on these today. I came straight home and ordered a pair :laugh:. Nice work Nick!


Thanks for the compliments and of course the order. I know you'll enjoy them thoroughly.  The more I listen to my set in my Jetta the more I'm continually impressed with not only their bandwidth but also their ability to have tremendous low end prowess.


----------



## I800C0LLECT

I REALLY wanna hear these Saturday


----------



## Electrodynamic

I800C0LLECT said:


> I REALLY wanna hear these Saturday


I'll be there with the TM65 mkII's and M25 tweeters and a prototype BM mkV subwoofer. One of the setting on my 3sixty.3 is only the TM65 mkII's and M25 tweeters - no subwoofer - so you can get a taste of what the mids are capable of on their own. I'll be wearing a blue polo shirt with a white "S" on the pocket front so track me down and I'll throw you in the car.


----------



## Coppertone

I'll have to " tap in " for some seat time also if you do not mind.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Coppertone said:


> I'll have to " tap in " for some seat time also if you do not mind.


Sure thing. I'll be there all day on Saturday.


----------



## Coppertone

Well I'll be there until Ian's wife kicks me out lol.


----------



## I800C0LLECT

I was super impressed with the 6.5" mkII. Wow. If I was starting from scratch these are the go to mids. I can't believe they went so deep without effecting midrange. That was amazing. Since I'm a fan of kick panels, I can't imagine a better speaker at a better price point for the job. The tweeters were fantastic too!! What an amazing match set.

Thanks for the seat time Nick...your work is extremely understated. I think if all your transactions could take place in person, you'd sell out in a week. You're definitely my go to brand for friends and family that want high end without paying utopia prices.  Thanks again and when that MKV is released I'm gonna THINK LONG AND HARD about an up front sub setup (jason's fault).


----------



## Electrodynamic

I800C0LLECT said:


> I was super impressed with the 6.5" mkII. Wow. If I was starting from scratch these are the go to mids. I can't believe they went so deep without effecting midrange. That was amazing. Since I'm a fan of kick panels, I can't imagine a better speaker at a better price point for the job. The tweeters were fantastic too!! What an amazing match set.
> 
> Thanks for the seat time Nick...your work is extremely understated. *I think if all your transactions could take place in person, you'd sell out in a week.* You're definitely my go to brand for friends and family that want high end without paying utopia prices.  Thanks again and when that MKV is released I'm gonna THINK LONG AND HARD about an up front sub setup (jason's fault).


Thanks for posting up your thoughts about your demo session and thanks a lot for the positive comments and impressions. I'm going to go as many meets as possible because I not only thoroughly enjoy the people and company but I absolutely enjoy sitting people in the drivers seat and letting the two way front stage go to town.  

I sat Bill in my car after dinner and after about 10 seconds of Hotel California he asked "wait...the subs are on, right?" Haha. I'll see if I can get him to post his impressions too either in here or in the GTG thread.


----------



## kmbkk

Nick I was super impressed by the Mk II's as well. The low end from them was insane! I really appreciate the opportunity to get a demo in your car. Not to mention, seeing the Mk V prototype!


----------



## Electrodynamic

kmbkk said:


> Nick I was super impressed by the Mk II's as well. The low end from them was insane! I really appreciate the opportunity to get a demo in your car. Not to mention, seeing the Mk V prototype!


No problem at all. I thoroughly enjoy showing people what the TM65 mkII's and M25's are capable of. I think I'm going to start video taping demo's to get the expressions and reactions on people's faces when I turn it up a little bit while only having the TM65 mkII's playing and no subwoofer.


----------



## crackinhedz

I800C0LLECT said:


> I was super impressed with the 6.5" mkII. Wow. If I was starting from scratch these are the go to mids.


Most definitely these would be my choice if I started all over again. Very impressive! 

Nick is a great guy in person, I wouldn't hesitate picking up a pair of these one day.


----------



## Dan750iL

After hearing them Saturday I came home and ordered a pair for my ever evolving build. They were crazy low.


----------



## PorkCereal

I Can't install mine until i work on my doors more. =D

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Black Rain

Nick,
I always see the TM65s being ran or tested as a 2-way. Has anyone used them as a stand-alone Midbass speaker? I am just curious because all the reviews always talk about how great the low end response are with them. If they could be used as a stand-alone, what would be the recommended power range (55-200Hz)?


----------



## Jscoyne2

Black Rain said:


> Nick,
> I always see the TM65s being ran or tested as a 2-way. Has anyone used them as a stand-alone Midbass speaker? I am just curious because all the reviews always talk about how great the low end response are with them. If they could be used as a stand-alone, what would be the recommended power range (55-200Hz)?


The v1s have a very sharp drop off around 1.5khz. Its gets wayyy to ragged after that for a 2 way.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## crackinhedz

Black Rain said:


> Nick,
> I always see the TM65s being ran or tested as a 2-way. Has anyone used them as a stand-alone Midbass speaker? I am just curious because all the reviews always talk about how great the low end response are with them. If they could be used as a stand-alone, what would be the recommended power range (55-200Hz)?


After hearing Nicks setup, the TM65's could easily be used for dedicated midbass! I believe Nick had 100rms and not using any high pass. They sounded great, very natural and no sense of distortion at high levels. 

Obviously Nick can speak for himself, but I was very impressed with how it sounded in person.


----------



## Babs

Black Rain said:


> Nick,
> I always see the TM65s being ran or tested as a 2-way. Has anyone used them as a stand-alone Midbass speaker? I am just curious because all the reviews always talk about how great the low end response are with them. If they could be used as a stand-alone, what would be the recommended power range (55-200Hz)?





crackinhedz said:


> After hearing Nicks setup, the TM65's could easily be used for dedicated midbass! I believe Nick had 100rms and not using any high pass. They sounded great, very natural and no sense of distortion at high levels.
> 
> Obviously Nick can speak for himself, but I was very impressed with how it sounded in person.


Agreed.. we can both vouch for hearing his jetta last weekend.. Midbass duty is certainly on the TM65 MKII resume'.. Easy job of it in fact. Those drivers boogie.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> The v1s have a very sharp drop off around 1.5khz. Its gets wayyy to ragged after that for a 2 way.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


This thread is about the mkII's, not the first version. The mkII is able to play clean up to its upper frequency limit of 3,500 Hz. Everyone that heard the Jetta this weekend can/will vouch for their ability to play extremely well in a 2-way setup...especially when mated to our M25 tweeter.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Black Rain said:


> Nick,
> I always see the TM65s being ran or tested as a 2-way. Has anyone used them as a stand-alone Midbass speaker? I am just curious because all the reviews always talk about how great the low end response are with them. If they could be used as a stand-alone, what would be the recommended power range (55-200Hz)?


If you limit the low end by highpassing them you can/will increase the power handling from a mechanical standpoint but as the mfg I do not recommend going above rated power.


----------



## Weightless

I have to admit I was pretty impressed with the low end on the mids. So much, Im buying two sets to go subless in my work vehicle. 

Nick, look for my order tomorrow. I would have ordered them sooner, but we've been pretty busy at work.

Thanks for the demo and conversation. It was a pleasure meeting you in person.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


----------



## Black Rain

Electrodynamic said:


> If you limit the low end by highpassing them you can/will increase the power handling from a mechanical standpoint but as the mfg I do not recommend going above rated power.


So you still would not recommend going over rated power even if they are used as strictly midbass woofers 55-200hz?

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

Weightless said:


> I have to admit I was pretty impressed with the low end on the mids. So much, Im buying two sets to go subless in my work vehicle.
> 
> Nick, look for my order tomorrow. I would have ordered them sooner, but we've been pretty busy at work.
> 
> Thanks for the demo and conversation. It was a pleasure meeting you in person.


Same here. Pleasure meeting you too...especially someone who uses a shallow mount BM in their home theater! I was serious when I was telling you that I used a shallow BM in my theater for a few months in the interm while the DO HST-11 linebacker system was being built. 

Four TM65 mkII's in your unique Honda car/van/wagon/utility is going to rock, big time. Use the drivers up front for the front stage and use the rear pair to further augment the bottom end even more.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Black Rain said:


> So you still would not recommend going over rated power even if they are used as strictly midbass woofers 55-200hz?


No sir - I do not recommend going over rated power. I've recommended higher power before and I won't do it again because people have been known to take it to the extreme and either massively overpower the drivers and/or take the higher power recommendation to eleven and leave it at that level for hours at a time. So, yes, I still recommend rated power. Going above rated power is at your discretion but please note the impact on our warranty.


----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> Same here. Pleasure meeting you too...especially someone who uses a shallow mount BM in their home theater! I was serious when I was telling you that I used a shallow BM in my theater for a few months in the interm while the DO HST-11 linebacker system was being built.
> 
> 
> 
> Four TM65 mkII's in your unique Honda car/van/wagon/utility is going to rock, big time. Use the drivers up front for the front stage and use the rear pair to further augment the bottom end even more.



Yeah the rear pair doing some light duty pulled back maybe 80 low-pass just filling in the bottom might be a great SQ-level substage. Not huge substage but likely very nice. Maybe put a high-pass 24db on them at something like 40 ya think Nick?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Electrodynamic

Babs said:


> Yeah the rear pair doing some light duty pulled back maybe 80 low-pass just filling in the bottom might be a great SQ-level substage. Not huge substage but likely very nice. Maybe put a high-pass 24db on them at something like 40 ya think Nick?


I would high-pass them at 30 Hz if that's an option. That will protect the drivers being used for sub-fill from over-excursion at higher levels. Just don't go nuts and try to re-create a rave in a club at the same decibel level, haha.


----------



## Jscoyne2

Electrodynamic said:


> This thread is about the mkII's, not the first version. The mkII is able to play clean up to its upper frequency limit of 3,500 Hz. Everyone that heard the Jetta this weekend can/will vouch for their ability to play extremely well in a 2-way setup...especially when mated to our M25 tweeter.


He said tm65. Just didn't want him to get confused 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## Electrodynamic

Jscoyne2 said:


> He said tm65. Just didn't want him to get confused


I don't think he was confused as the title of this thread is "TM65 mkII" not "First version TM65". All of the discussion in this thread is about the new improved driver, not the previous version.


----------



## Weightless

Electrodynamic said:


> I would high-pass them at 30 Hz if that's an option. That will protect the drivers being used for sub-fill from over-excursion at higher levels. Just don't go nuts and try to re-create a rave in a club at the same decibel level, haha.


That's what I'm going to be aiming for, but as you know, the final tune will be decided once it's installed. 

While I enjoy the audio louder than the road noise, I'm not much of a rave at a club kinda guy. I got that out of my system in my teens and early 20's, lol. 

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


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## naiku

Electrodynamic said:


> Everyone that heard the Jetta this weekend can/will vouch for their ability to play extremely well in a 2-way setup.


Yup, another who got a listen at the weekend and came away very impressed. Was also really cool to meet and chat with Nick.


----------



## unix_usr

Hey Nick - if using them in a 3 way setup then (as opposed to the 2 way; having them bandpassed at roughly 80-300hz range) ... would the V1 be the better option or would the preferred choice still be the MKii ?


----------



## Electrodynamic

unix_usr said:


> Hey Nick - if using them in a 3 way setup then (as opposed to the 2 way; having them bandpassed at roughly 80-300hz range) ... would the V1 be the better option or would the preferred choice still be the MKii ?


The mkII's parameters are better than the first version so you will get more output in the midbass area over the first version.


----------



## unix_usr

Thanks man ... any chance these are gonna hit amazon prime with two day shipping some day  .... lol seriously though, ordering now what's the average ETA ?


----------



## Electrodynamic

unix_usr said:


> Thanks man ... any chance these are gonna hit amazon prime with two day shipping some day  .... lol seriously though, ordering now what's the average ETA ?


Well they should be here any day now. Once they arrive I need to ship out all the pre-orders which should only take me a few days once all the invoices are put in order.


----------



## Electrodynamic

unix_usr said:


> *any chance these are gonna hit amazon prime with two day shipping some day?*


I am actually in discussion with Amazon right now about putting the TM65 mkII's and M25 tweeters on Amazon. Whether they will be available for PRIME or not is outside of my control and is up to Amazon.


----------



## dsquared

Finally got my 2 way set tuned with these and what else can I say.
I'm not even in a hurry to install my subs ( and they are pretty good) don't ask.
I was driving my son to his game and he plugged his music in .
"Holy **** dad , what did you do?" He said.
I just smiled. Pretty cool to capture the attention of a 16 year old.


----------



## Victor_inox

dsquared said:


> Finally got my 2 way set tuned with these and what else can I say.
> I'm not even in a hurry to install my subs ( and they are pretty good) don't ask.
> I was driving my son to his game and he plugged his music in .
> "Holy **** dad , what did you do?" He said.
> I just smiled. Pretty cool to capture the attention of a 16 year old.


Pretty cool indeed but was he up to detailed explanation?


----------



## dsquared

Maybe not technical detail but he did ask again about what I did when he got home so I sat with him and drew up my system. Basically a layout drawing...then I described what each components function and purpose was... left the costs out though.?


----------



## Alrojoca

????????


----------



## JH1973

Has anybody ran the TM65 with an M25 tweet in a 2-way set up? If so,what are or were your crossover points? How did it sound? Come on guys,I'm hard up for good info....


----------



## kmbkk

JH1973 said:


> Has anybody ran the TM65 with an M25 tweet in a 2-way set up? If so,what are or were your crossover points? How did it sound? Come on guys,I'm hard up for good info....


I think Nick has his crossed over at 3k. Hopefully he'll chime in to verify.


----------



## soundstreamer

JH1973 said:


> Has anybody ran the TM65 with an M25 tweet in a 2-way set up? If so,what are or were your crossover points? How did it sound? Come on guys,I'm hard up for good info....


I have them running in a 2 way setup with the mids high passed at 63 hz. The mids and tweets are crossed over at 3200 hz. I'm using 24 db/octave crossovers. I think they sound great where I have them and haven't heard any distortion from them at all.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...omparisons/343593-si-m25-tm65-mk2-review.html

That's my brief review of them.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Yep, I am running my TM65 mkII's and M25 tweeters with a crossover point of 3,000 Hz with 24 dB/octave slopes. Look up through this page and the last page - the comments about how my Jetta sounds are from demo's with the two-way setup, no sub.


----------



## slappinX

Electrodynamic said:


> Yep, I am running my TM65 mkII's and M25 tweeters with a crossover point of 3,000 Hz with 24 dB/octave slopes. Look up through this page and the last page - the comments about how my Jetta sounds are from demo's with the two-way setup, no sub.


Nick, I have a 01 Jetta TDI also, would the M25 tweeter fit in the stock A pillar?


----------



## Electrodynamic

slappinX said:


> Nick, I have a 01 Jetta TDI also, would the M25 tweeter fit in the stock A pillar?


No. The M25 will need and adapter. Take a look at my install log to see what I did to make it work.


----------



## slappinX

Electrodynamic said:


> No. The M25 will need and adapter. Take a look at my install log to see what I did to make it work.


I saw the work you did. It's very nice but I want to keep a stock look and not attract attention to my interior (living in Los Angeles and the Bay Area can be rough).

What should I look for in a tweeter that will match with TM65mkII?


----------



## Alrojoca

Thieves will not go after drivers that have no logo or not offer significant market resale value, in my opinion unless they come here to sell them, and I doubt it, usually eBay or Craigslist.


You can get some speaker fabric at Joan's fabric and wrap the tweeters to hide them if it's a concern. 


Or cut the ring, or the panel to fit it behind a factory grill or panel and hide it. 

The other option would be to get some very small OD tweeters.


----------



## dgage

The problem with smaller tweeters is that they may not sound as good playing lower and/or louder.


----------



## Boostedrex

dgage said:


> The problem with smaller tweeters is that they may not sound as good playing lower and/or louder.


There is always a way to get the tweeter you want to fit and still stay hidden. If the TM25 is what you want, then there are people who will help you figure out how to make it fit. I'll be more than happy to help with ideas/designs if you want. Just shoot me a PM if I can be of any help.


----------



## dgage

Boostedrex said:


> There is always a way to get the tweeter you want to fit and still stay hidden. If the TM25 is what you want, then there are people who will help you figure out how to make it fit. I'll be more than happy to help with ideas/designs if you want. Just shoot me a PM if I can be of any help.


I'd definitely recommend that as opposed to settling for a smaller tweeter.


----------



## Alrojoca

dgage said:


> I'd definitely recommend that as opposed to settling for a smaller tweeter.




A tweeter can be the same size as the M25 and play as good, it's the overall outside diameter is what that counts.

In fact there are bigger ones 28 mm 1.2" with smaller diameter.

You just need to know how to hide it, maybe not top mounting it, or butcher a sail panel to make it fit. 

Car branded or dedicated tweeters, tend to offer better mounting options with a small diameter.


----------



## JH1973

The stock location for tweeters in my Sentra are on the very corners of the dash where the A-pillar,dash and windshield come together.I didn't hide my tweeters in them though.Instead I surface mounted them on the sail panels.That seemed like a strange location for tweeters.


----------



## Boostedrex

Alrojoca said:


> A tweeter can be the same size as the M25 and play as good, it's the overall outside diameter is what that counts.
> 
> In fact there are bigger ones 28 mm 1.2" with smaller diameter.
> 
> You just need to know how to hide it, maybe not top mounting it, or butcher a sail panel to make it fit.
> 
> Car branded or dedicated tweeters, tend to offer better mounting options with a small diameter.


You make a very valid point. But the one thing that the TM25 has in it's favor with this debate is that it was designed to be voiced to compliment the TM65 MKII and vice versa. Having speakers with similar voice/timbre can make dialing the whole system in so much easier. And some speakers have such opposite voicing that it's almost impossible to get them to sound natural together. Not that you have to run the same brand drivers together, but when two drivers are designed from the ground up to compliment each other it's a hard combination to beat.


----------



## Alrojoca

Boostedrex said:


> You make a very valid point. But the one thing that the TM25 has in it's favor with this debate is that it was designed to be voiced to compliment the TM65 MKII and vice versa. Having speakers with similar voice/timbre can make dialing the whole system in so much easier. And some speakers have such opposite voicing that it's almost impossible to get them to sound natural together. Not that you have to run the same brand drivers together, but when two drivers are designed from the ground up to compliment each other it's a hard combination to beat.


Mmm, not really that's a myth unless he/she is using the passive crossovers designed for the system. The only thing that counts is that the tweeter can play well and clean, in this case at 3000 Hz or lower if possible, using a processor or active pre amplified filters you can tune and pick slopes xpoints and level match both drivers for optimal playback. 

I'm not bashing or trolling here, the topic that dgage and slappin brought up has to do with keeping a factory look or hiding them, if they don't want to use an adapter, fabricate a pod, or not top mounting etc, the only way is to cut the ring or use another tweeter.


----------



## Boostedrex

Alrojoca said:


> Mmm, not really that's a myth unless he/she is using the passive crossovers designed for the system. The only thing that counts is that the tweeter can play well and clean, in this case at 3000 Hz or lower if possible, using a processor or active pre amplified filters you can tune and pick slopes xpoints and level match both drivers for optimal playback.
> 
> I'm not bashing or trolling here, the topic that dgage and slappin brought up has to do with keeping a factory look or hiding them, if they don't want to use an adapter, fabricate a pod, or not top mounting etc, the only way is to cut the ring or use another tweeter.


I do agree that using a different tweeter is the only option if fabrication isn't something that he is willing to do. 

However, the similar voiced driver comment is not a myth. There are more than a few of us here with decades of first hand experience that would firmly stand behind that statement. While it's obviously more applicable to passive X-over networks, it's still a real thing in active setups. Can you make any drivers work together? Yes. But it takes far more EQ work.


----------



## Niebur3

^^^I disagree with this (the voicing comment). As long as the speaker can play the range intended, then it an active system, it should sound just fine. EQ work is due to the Frequency Response of the driver in the room and nothing more.


----------



## SkizeR

Niebur3 said:


> ^^^I disagree with this (the voicing comment). As long as the speaker can play the range intended, then it an active system, it should sound just fine. EQ work is due to the Frequency Response of the driver in the room and nothing more.


X2

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## JH1973

Is there a passive crossover that could do an acceptable job with these 2 drivers? I've been researching DSP's and it seems a very complex ordeal.The tuning,equalizing,TA,etc just all seem overwhelming.


----------



## dcfis

JH1973 said:


> Is there a passive crossover that could do an acceptable job with these 2 drivers? I've been researching DSP's and it seems a very complex ordeal.The tuning,equalizing,TA,etc just all seem overwhelming.


Its not too bad if you get in your mind its a process little by little over a few days (for me anyway)


----------



## seafish

JH1973 said:


> Is there a passive crossover that could do an acceptable job with these 2 drivers? I've been researching DSP's and it seems a very complex ordeal.The tuning,equalizing,TA,etc just all seem overwhelming.


Earlier in the thread, Nick said that there will (eventually) be available a passive XO designed just for the TM65v2 with the MT25.


----------



## rob feature

seafish said:


> Earlier in the thread, Nick said that there will (eventually) be available a passive XO designed just for the TM65v2 with the MT25.


----------



## Alrojoca

That passive xover looks very nice, good option for home speakers, but I'm sure it is still going to need a bunch of EQ work in a car


----------



## dsquared

JH1973 said:


> Is there a passive crossover that could do an acceptable job with these 2 drivers? I've been researching DSP's and it seems a very complex ordeal.The tuning,equalizing,TA,etc just all seem overwhelming.


It certainly can be overwhelming however once you go the dsp route you will never go back. However I do not think you will be disappointed with this setup either way you go. SI support and the community support here are second to none and will help you obtain your goals for sure!


----------



## wheelieking71

rob feature said:


>


Wait! What? Me need! (I still like passive systems)


----------



## JH1973

wheelieking71 said:


> rob feature said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait! What? Me need! (I still like passive systems)
Click to expand...

Yeah,what's up with that picture? That thing looks juicy!! How about some info man?


----------



## rob feature

JH1973 said:


> Yeah,what's up with that picture? That thing looks juicy!! How about some info man?


I swiped it off the SI facebook page...which seems to be the best source of up-to-date info on SI. There are a few more and a little bit of info:

_Pre-production passive crossover networks for our TM65 mkII and M25 tweeters are finished! We will be testing two of these units over the next month and then we will make a production run of these and offer a complete passive component set complete with TM65 mkII's, M25's, and these crossover units._


----------



## Electrodynamic

JH1973 said:


> Yeah,what's up with that picture? That thing looks juicy!! How about some info man?





rob feature said:


> I swiped it off the SI facebook page...which seems to be the best source of up-to-date info on SI. There are a few more and a little bit of info:
> 
> _Pre-production passive crossover networks for our TM65 mkII and M25 tweeters are finished! We will be testing two of these units over the next month and then we will make a production run of these and offer a complete passive component set complete with TM65 mkII's, M25's, and these crossover units._


The passive crossovers are prototypes. If they are brought to fruition it will be after the BM mkV's are produced. We will be using these prototype crossovers for small home bookshelf speakers featuring the TM65 mkII and M25 combo and possibly some tall thin tower speakers featuring a single BM mkV mounted on the side of the tower.


----------



## subwoofery

Electrodynamic said:


> The passive crossovers are prototypes. If they are brought to fruition it will be after the BM mkV's are produced. We will be using these prototype crossovers for small home bookshelf speakers featuring the TM65 mkII and M25 combo and *possibly some tall thin tower speakers featuring a single BM mkV mounted on the side of the tower*.


Gallo Acoustics' style  










Kelvin


----------



## JH1973

Could this RF passive work for this set? It's crossed at 3k anyway.....
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PP4X/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-PP4-X.html?tp=61661


----------



## JH1973

It could be months or years until Nick offers the whole set up.


----------



## Electrodynamic

JH1973 said:


> Could this RF passive work for this set? It's crossed at 3k anyway.....
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PP4X/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-PP4-X.html?tp=61661


It looks like it should work. Both the woofer and tweeter are 4 Ohm in that crossover so you should be good to go.


----------



## JH1973

Electrodynamic said:


> JH1973 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could this RF passive work for this set? It's crossed at 3k anyway.....
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PP4X/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-PP4-X.html?tp=61661
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like it should work. Both the woofer and tweeter are 4 Ohm in that crossover so you should be good to go.
Click to expand...

Awesome!! Thanks Nick.Now my option is open to bridging each amp at 200w x 2.


----------



## JH1973

So Nick,just to pick your brain and experience,which do you like the sound of better?......
1. 200x2 passive
2.75x4 active


----------



## Electrodynamic

JH1973 said:


> So Nick,just to pick your brain and experience,which do you like the sound of better?......
> 1. 200x2 passive
> 2.75x4 active


200 watts is too much power for a TM65 mkII so I would go with option 2 of 75x4 so the mid is receiving 75 watts instead of 200 watts. 200 x 2 will still provide the woofer with 200 watts and the tweeter with 200 watts, or 200 watts per channel since they are operating in two different bandwidths. Now if you had two TM65 mkII's on the same channel operating from 50 Hz up to 3,000 Hz they would share the power, or 100 watts per speaker from 200 watts total on that channel. But if you are dividing the drivers up into two different bandwidth's (50 Hz to 3,000 Hz for the TM65 mkII and then 3,000 Hz up to/past 20,000 Hz for the M25) they will both see the same amount of power.


----------



## PorkCereal

I was sad this weekend. Tried to install mine but id have to cut my doors to get the splash guard to fit. I'm already maxed out on spacer depth as well =[

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Niebur3

Electrodynamic said:


> It looks like it should work. Both the woofer and tweeter are 4 Ohm in that crossover so you should be good to go.


I would think you would also need to match the difference in sensitivity between the woofer and tweeter, as I'm sure they accounted for that in their crossover design, for it to sound right.

And after actually looking at the crossover he linked, I don't think it would work at all. It talks about a crossover for the woofer, but nothing for the tweeter. Crutchfield says:

"Rockford Fosgate designed the PP4-X crossover to work with a Punch Pro Series midrange speaker and tweeter. The PP4-X provides low-pass filtering for a 4-ohm Punch Pro woofer (3,000 Hz at a 6dB per octave slope), while Punch Pro Series tweeters include their own built-in high-pass crossover (4.5K Hz, 6 dB/octave). Don't worry about that "gap" in the frequency coverage, as the gentle 6db/octave slope ensures that the final response is perfectly blended and smooth."

And when you look at the Punch Pro Tweeter, it says it has it's own built in crossover, which supports the statement made by Crutchfield. The only reason I can see for connecting the tweeter to this particular crossover is for level adjustment.

And even if it was a standard passive for Mid/Tweet, I don't think most sets would like the "gap" between 3000Hz and 4500Hz. 

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong but I think this would be a terrible idea.


----------



## Howell

Basically the "tweeter having it's own 6dB crossover" means that it has a capacitor inlinr that is sized to start cutting at 4.5kHz for a 4ohm load.

IMO mixing passive XOs with random drivers is a terrible idea. Running the SI tweeter with effectively zero crossover is equally, if not more, terrible of an idea.

Go active is my suggestion. You want to pick and mix/match drivers? You have already made the decision to go active. Can't afford what active requires? Sorry. Sometimes you have to pay to play. And whereas you're spending less than Focal prices...buy another amp (even a small one...the tweet doesn't need much) and do it right.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## Babs

One channel from an XD 70watts or so was plenty on 1/2 of the coils on the MKI's I had. But I'm gonna tell ya. Boys treat your doors!! I just got my system running now again and I'm not even gonna claim a driver difference. What I'm hearing is better sealed and treated door enclosures. Or rather what I'm "not" hearing. With these uber-midbass drivers get the best of them. Go the extra mile. It's worth it. 


































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## rton20s

Niebur3 said:


> I would think you would also need to match the difference in sensitivity between the woofer and tweeter, as I'm sure they accounted for that in their crossover design, for it to sound right.
> 
> And after actually looking at the crossover he linked, I don't think it would work at all. It talks about a crossover for the woofer, but nothing for the tweeter. Crutchfield says:
> 
> "Rockford Fosgate designed the PP4-X crossover to work with a Punch Pro Series midrange speaker and tweeter. The PP4-X provides low-pass filtering for a 4-ohm Punch Pro woofer (3,000 Hz at a 6dB per octave slope), while Punch Pro Series tweeters include their own built-in high-pass crossover (4.5K Hz, 6 dB/octave). Don't worry about that "gap" in the frequency coverage, as the gentle 6db/octave slope ensures that the final response is perfectly blended and smooth."
> 
> And when you look at the Punch Pro Tweeter, it says it has it's own built in crossover, which supports the statement made by Crutchfield. The only reason I can see for connecting the tweeter to this particular crossover is for level adjustment.
> 
> And even if it was a standard passive for Mid/Tweet, I don't think most sets would like the "gap" between 3000Hz and 4500Hz.
> 
> Please correct me if I am reading this wrong but I think this would be a terrible idea.


Not to mention that passive RF crossover that wasn't designed for the SI drivers is $100. Want to know something infinitely better to spend $100 on? 

This: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/assembled-crossovers/minidsp-2x4-digital-signal-processor/?gclid=CjwKEAjwgtTJBRDRmd6ZtLrGyxwSJAA7Fy-hFgpTsIRbfy1jcayLA3DT9ziY_3Qzhez4sWST1eMCDBoCiU3w_wcB

(Assuming you have the amp channels, of course.)


----------



## Electrodynamic

My apologies for missing the info on the RF passive crossover but that makes sense that their passive crossover is specifically designed for their component speakers.


----------



## JH1973

Well it looks like my inquiry sparked some interesting conversation and perhaps we all learned something(at least I did).

It's not that I don't have the money for a DSP or anything like that.Its more a matter of simplicity vs a complex and difficult process.I believe that processing sound and tuning,etc is extremely difficult and time consuming.Some people are Masters at it.I just wish there was a good way to learn how to do it to where I could enjoy doing it.I mean,sitting in the car with a laptop (I don't have one,another issue)plugged in to say a Helix,looking at complicated graphs,time alignment options,gain controls,fade controls,etc.....How in the world do you even know where and how to start?

Now something very simple that I learned with my current system through trial and error is that my sub contributes the best when I set the LP to 90hz at a 12db slope and the mid to 100hz at a 12db slope.The gap between 90 and 100 blends nicely at that rate of drop.After discovering that that was optimal it made sense in my brain and registered that my 5.25 mids are not large enough to play 60-90hz effectively on their own and need help from the sub for that range.So it just works and more importantly makes sense to my brain.

I know that's probably kindergarten stuff for a lot here but for me it was kind of a lightbulb moment.However,it took a long time to figure out and like I said above the thought of going through all that again on a much higher scale is just demotivating....ok,venting is over.


----------



## dgage

I no longer build computers as I just want things to work and don't feel like tweaking things to no end. Also why I run an iPhone, I just want something that works even though I am very technical. Just cause I can doesn't mean I want to or have time to.

With that said, there are numerous people on DIYMA more than willing to assist. It isn't that hard to get started and you don't have to become an expert to get good results. You'll need:

* DSP such as the MiniDSP 2x4, 2x4HD, C-DSP 6x8/8x12, Helix, etc, etc. 
* Enough amp channels to cover your speakers and subs
* Measuring microphone such as UMIK-1 or UMM-6. I recommend ordering a calibrated one from cross-spectrum.com.
* Laptop with REW - Room EQ Wizard installed.
* Better attitude to want to learn and get over the hurdle so you can have an amazing system. It's not easy but it isn't as hard as you're making it out to be. Especially with the help from some great people on this forum. Meant in a positive way and not trying to be a jerk. 

Or you could try to find a passive crossover and continue to have a decent system but one that doesn't come close to reaching its potential. But as already pointed out, passive crossover are very specific to the speakers in question working on items such as sensitivity, impedance, and often even small corrections to frequency response.


----------



## unix_usr

lol - does this mean there might already be a slightly used/new-open-box set available?



PorkCereal said:


> I was sad this weekend. Tried to install mine but id have to cut my doors to get the splash guard to fit. I'm already maxed out on spacer depth as well =[
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

Think of the $105 miniDSP 2x4 as the most flexible pre-amplifier passive crossover you have ever seen. You don't HAVE to use all of the capabilities, but they are there if/when you need them. In the mean time, you can use it as a simple crossover. The drawback is that if you don't have a computer a new one will likely set you back at least $150. And that is something you'll need with just about any DSP. 

Alternately, you can also look into electronic crossovers if you don't want to deal with a computer or building a custom passive network. From lower cost options like the Clarion MCD360, Cadence CXR-7, Massive Tri-XO, and Memphos CX23, to higher cost options like the Rainbow Kraftwerk KW2V8 & KW4V8, Zapco ASP-X2 & ASP-X4, and Arc IDX. You can also look into amplifiers that have built in bandpass crossovers. There are some available that are very reasonably priced. 

Finally there are the Harrison Labs FMods and PFMods. Cost on these can add up pretty quickly though and aren't as flexible as an electronic crossover or DSP. Line Level Crossovers


----------



## unix_usr

JH1973 said:


> Well it looks like my inquiry sparked some interesting conversation and perhaps we all learned something(at least I did).
> 
> It's not that I don't have the money for a DSP or anything like that.Its more a matter of simplicity vs a complex and difficult process.I believe that processing sound and tuning,etc is extremely difficult and time consuming.Some people are Masters at it.I just wish there was a good way to learn how to do it to where I could enjoy doing it.I mean,sitting in the car with a laptop (I don't have one,another issue)plugged in to say a Helix,looking at complicated graphs,time alignment options,gain controls,fade controls,etc.....How in the world do you even know where and how to start?
> 
> Now something very simple that I learned with my current system through trial and error is that my sub contributes the best when I set the LP to 90hz at a 12db slope and the mid to 100hz at a 12db slope.The gap between 90 and 100 blends nicely at that rate of drop.After discovering that that was optimal it made sense in my brain and registered that my 5.25 mids are not large enough to play 60-90hz effectively on their own and need help from the sub for that range.So it just works and more importantly makes sense to my brain.
> 
> I know that's probably kindergarten stuff for a lot here but for me it was kind of a lightbulb moment.However,it took a long time to figure out and like I said above the thought of going through all that again on a much higher scale is just demotivating....ok,venting is over.


It's worth stating - that you could go "simple" with a DSP and use it solely as a variable crossover until you're more comfortable or things make sense (or not). 

The end result is that you have is the same as you would with passive crossovers even if you used no other features or capabilities. You do not *have* to have a measuring microphone, laptop, etc - to setup basic DSP with crossover frequency and slopes. The miniDSP in particular is relatively inexpensive and very easy to use for this purpose, you could set it up using a desktop PC in your home and walk it out to your car. You bring up the "outputs", select the "x-over" button underneath it and set values... looks like this:


----------



## PorkCereal

unix_usr said:


> lol - does this mean there might already be a slightly used/new-open-box set available?


Heh maybe. They never saw power and one was unboxed. Have to see how brave i get. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## JH1973

Rton and Gage,thanks for the encouragement.I have always wanted an active system because I've never actually heard one but I've never done it for my reasons stated.Maybe it's time for me to man up and face my dreads?

Would an electronic crossover be a good option over a DSP? I don't have a laptop but I do have a PC.Would need a 50 ft. Long USB cord.I mean,something simple like a Kicker front row or others that Rton mentioned?


----------



## rob feature

JH1973 said:


> Rton and Gage,thanks for the encouragement.I have always wanted an active system because I've never actually heard one but I've never done it for my reasons stated.Maybe it's time for me to man up and face my dreads?
> 
> Would an electronic crossover be a good option over a DSP? I don't have a laptop but I do have a PC.Would need a 50 ft. Long USB cord.I mean,something simple like a Kicker front row or others that Rton mentioned?


Definitely worth going active. 

FWIW however USB gets unreliable over 16 feet.


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## unix_usr

You don't have to have USB connected in the car - you can plug it in by your pc, setup xovers and then un-plug it and put in car.

The miniDSP C-6to8 has an SD card, you can even do config on that and pass back/forth from the car leaving it installed.

Point being - you have (some) options even not having a laptop.


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## JH1973

unix_usr said:


> You don't have to have USB connected in the car - you can plug it in by your pc, setup xovers and then un-plug it and put in car.
> 
> The miniDSP C-6to8 has an SD card, you can even do config on that and pass back/forth from the car leaving it installed.
> 
> Point being - you have (some) options even not having a laptop.


So what is the exact make/model number your referring to here.Thanks for the pic.It doesn't look that difficult.At least just setting crossover points anyway.


----------



## dgage

unix_usr said:


> You don't have to have USB connected in the car - you can plug it in by your pc, setup xovers and then un-plug it and put in car.
> 
> The miniDSP C-6to8 has an SD card, you can even do config on that and pass back/forth from the car leaving it installed.
> 
> Point being - you have (some) options even not having a laptop.


Not really for taking mic measurements, at least for USB.

However, you could go with a Dayton EMM-6 microphone, again, I recommend purchasing calibrated from Cross-Spectrum. Then you'd need a USB interface and I'd recommend the Focusrite Scarlett Solo or 2i2. Then you could use a 50-ft long XLR mic cable. A little more expensive but pretty flexible.

Edit - Regarding your question about which DSP, I agree that I really like the MiniDSP C-6x8 as a strong yet inexpensive crossover/DSP.


----------



## rton20s

As was mentioned, there are ways around needing a notebook PC for the DSP its self (pre-programming, phone apps, controlers with full DSP control, etc.). However, the shortcoming is likely to be when it comes to measurements. For that, you really are better off with a PC. In a pinch, you can also use phone and tablet compatible apps and mics to do the job.


----------



## dsquared

PorkCereal said:


> I was sad this weekend. Tried to install mine but id have to cut my doors to get the splash guard to fit. I'm already maxed out on spacer depth as well =[
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


I had to do the same but it's worth it! I used a 1/2" diameter carbide burr tool
in a pneumatic die grinder and it took me about 20 minutes to get both sides to fit. I'd be happy to offer you the tool if you have the capacity to hold the 1/4" shank.


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## unix_usr

JH1973 said:


> So what is the exact make/model number your referring to here.Thanks for the pic.It doesn't look that difficult.At least just setting crossover points anyway.


That pic is from a miniDSP C_DSP 6x8 - you can get more info here: https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-6x8 ... retails for about $275.

Like I said above - *VERY* simple interface to work with - happy to help walk you through the steps if you do end up with one  - also like mentioned above, you don't have to get microphone and analyzer software and go all crazy tuning - you can start simple and grow as your skills and understanding do too. The miniDSP product line is pretty awesome for that imho.


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## PorkCereal

dsquared said:


> I had to do the same but it's worth it! I used a 1/2" diameter carbide burr tool
> in a pneumatic die grinder and it took me about 20 minutes to get both sides to fit. I'd be happy to offer you the tool if you have the capacity to hold the 1/4" shank.


 Thx for the offer. I'll probably swing through Lowes and find something eventually. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## dgage

PorkCereal said:


> Thx for the offer. I'll probably swing through Lowes and find something eventually.


Doubt you'll be able to find this locally but this is an option too.
https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Plate...id=1496786335&sr=8-7&keywords=Metal+hand+tool


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## JH1973

Looking at the manual on this Mini DSP and a bit confused.It says 6x8 and yet there is only 4 inputs? My HU has 3 sets of preouts(F-R-Sub).....System would be 2 tweets,2 mids and a sub.How could all that work and maintain balance and fade control?Sorry,I'm processor illiterate.


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## dgage

The 6x8 was designed for a Front/Rear input with the digital also getting up to a so-called 6 (guess). You'd have to step up to the 8x12 if you wanted to use F/R/Sub or another brand of DSP. 

Take a look at the remote for the MiniDSP 6x8/8x12 as it allows you to control the subwoofer level. Not quite the same as controlling it from your head unit but the remote allows control of the sub levels via the DSP. Plus it gives you 4 presets (crossovers & EQ).


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## JH1973

dgage said:


> The 6x8 was designed for a Front/Rear input with the digital also getting up to a so-called 6 (guess). You'd have to step up to the 8x12 if you wanted to use F/R/Sub or another brand of DSP.
> 
> Take a look at the remote for the MiniDSP 6x8/8x12 as it allows you to control the subwoofer level. Not quite the same as controlling it from your head unit but the remote allows control of the sub levels via the DSP. Plus it gives you 4 presets (crossovers & EQ).


Again confused.....why would the remote control bass on a 6x8 if it's only designed for front and rear?And what is that digital input?


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## WhereAmEye?

JH1973 said:


> Again confused.....why would the remote control bass on a 6x8 if it's only designed for front and rear?And what is that digital input?




You can get a full range signal from the front/ rear outputs of most head units. So the 6x8 can "steal" the lower frequencies from those signals, output them in the form of a subwoofer rca output, and thus allow attenuation of that subwoofer output. Digital input is cool for some things but not needed if you're using just a head unit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgage

The sub would take its signal from the front or the rear but I would do it with both. Look at page 21 of the 6x8 manual under the Routing Tab. Essentially, you'd have Output 7/8 (assumes your subs) ON for each of the inputs (8 ONs in those two columns). That would combine the signal for Input 1-4 and output it to 7/8.


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## dgage

And a quick note. To make it easier to understand, you should probably "name" the inputs or outputs so you'll understand better their function. And as WhereAmI pointed out, the MiniDSP would control OUTPUTS 7/8 for the sub level.

INPUT 1 - Front L
INPUT 2 - Front R
INPUT 3 - Rear L
INPUT 4 - Rear R

OUTPUT 1 - Front Tweeter L
OUTPUT 2 - Front Tweeter R
OUTPUT 3 - Front Mid L
OUTPUT 4 - Front Mid R
OUTPUT 5 - Rear L
OUTPUT 6 - Rear R
OUTPUT 7 - Sub L
OUTPUT 8 - Sub R


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## JH1973

So according to what you guys are saying and I am seeing,I wouldn't need to use my subwoofer output from the head unit although I am pretty sure that it sends a full range signal as well because I can set that crossover from the HU to the "through" position which I'm pretty sure turns off the filter completely.How would this affect the fader and balance control at the HU?I would assume,according to the info that the sub would always play regardless of fader/balance position because it's getting its signal from the front and rear outputs,however it would still work properly with tweeters and mids.For example,fading to front would cut mids and play tweets and subs.Fading to rear would cut tweets and play mids and subs.Am I getting this right? 

Gage,according to your chart I would definitely not need to step up to an 8x12. Why would I need 12 outputs when I'll have 6 speakers(2 tweets,2 mid drivers and 2 subs)?Maybe you misunderstood me?


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Fading to the front or rear should not affect your front tweeter/ mid combo. It should only affect front/ rear combo. The front mids and tweeters will share the signal coming from the "front" output of the head unit. 

He only suggested the 8x12 because you mentioned wanting to use 6 rca channels from the head unit (the 8x12 has 6 rca inputs and one L/R digital input). However, you shouldn't need it since you're only using six speakers. 

Edit: sorry forget about that paragraph


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JH1973

WhereAmEye? said:


> Fading to the front or rear should not affect your front tweeter/ mid combo. It should only affect front/ rear combo. The front mids and tweeters will share the signal coming from the "front" output of the head unit.
> 
> He only suggested the 8x12 because you mentioned wanting to use 6 rca channels from the head unit (the 8x12 has 6 rca inputs and one L/R digital input). However, you shouldn't need it since you're only using six speakers.
> 
> Edit: sorry forget about that paragraph
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I wouldn't be using rear speakers,only front tweeters/mids and subs.So that being the case,couldn't I just use the front outputs and divide the whole range between the 6 speakers? Or do you need the rear outputs as well for full stereo seperation?


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## dgage

JH1973 said:


> Well I wouldn't be using rear speakers,only front tweeters/mids and subs.So that being the case,couldn't I just use the front outputs and divide the whole range between the 6 speakers? Or do you need the rear outputs as well for full stereo seperation?


That would work perfectly. Or you could use the rear signal to drive your sub, which would allow you to use the fading function of your head unit to raise/reduce the sub level.

See how flexible (and annoying) going full active can be. LOL!

EDIT - Another option is to use your Front output from the head unit to drive your tweets and mids and the Sub output to Input3/4 on the MiniDSP. Lots of options. But you would set the Sub output to full signal as you'd use the MiniDSP for crossover duties.


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## Howell

dgage said:


> That would work perfectly. Or you could use the rear signal to drive your sub, which would allow you to use the fading function of your head unit to raise/reduce the sub level.
> 
> See how flexible (and annoying) going full active can be. LOL!
> 
> EDIT - Another option is to use your Front output from the head unit to drive your tweets and mids and the Sub output to Input3/4 on the MiniDSP. Lots of options. But you would set the Sub output to full signal as you'd use the MiniDSP for crossover duties.


I'd just like to call attention to the fact that your suggestion/offer was redundant, so as not to confuse the guy that's intimidated by all of this.

I'd like to commend you for offering your support, however. Although I realize I'm not exactly the guy who is in any position to offer commendation nor recalcitrance.

To the OP:

You're journeying into an unfamiliar space with many possible pifalls. It is at this point that I must admonish you of the value of research. These DSP interfaces can be intimidating, but they are much less so once you are fully versed in the nomenclature as well as the methods involved in being an "a.k.a. advanced car audio dude." Once you understand the nuances of crossovers, slopes, attenuation, and time alignment can you expect to fully leverage eveything at your disposal. You've already indicated a propensity to learn about this stuff...so I implore you to just do the due diligence and learn about this Art called Car Audio. You will never count your time spent learning as "wasted."

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## JH1973

dgage said:


> That would work perfectly. Or you could use the rear signal to drive your sub, which would allow you to use the fading function of your head unit to raise/reduce the sub level.
> 
> See how flexible (and annoying) going full active can be. LOL!
> 
> EDIT - Another option is to use your Front output from the head unit to drive your tweets and mids and the Sub output to Input3/4 on the MiniDSP. Lots of options. But you would set the Sub output to full signal as you'd use the MiniDSP for crossover duties.


I actually like the option of using the rear output for the subs because I find myself often wanting to turn the subs off and just enjoy the component speakers up front.This way I could just fade it and instantly turn the subs off as where now I have to go to my EQ and turn the sub control all the way down to -50.Takes like 10 seconds to do....annoying.

One thing about that though....could I use my speaker outputs on HU to power rear stocks for "rear fill" or is it not a doable thing to use both the rear outputs and rear speaker outputs in one configuration? Seems like it might cause signal mixing of some type...?


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## dgage

JH1973 said:


> One thing about that though....could I use my speaker outputs on HU to power rear stocks for "rear fill" or is it not a doable thing to use both the rear outputs and rear speaker outputs in one configuration? Seems like it might cause signal mixing of some type...?


You'd definitely be mixing at that power with the rear speakers and sub on rear outputs. Fading would work but if you want to reduce the sub, you'd also be reducing the output of your rears.

Doesn't your head unit have subwoofer control such that you can control the level or turn on/off? Then you could use the Sub output for the DSP while retaining your rears and fading capability. If your head unit doesn't have subwoofer control to completely turn it off, you could leverage the MiniDSP remote to turn down the volume of your sub. Or setup one of the four presets to completely turn off the sub, then it is a simple button press on the MiniDSP remote. Button 1 could be the full setup, Button 2 copy of 1 but with the sub turned off. Button 3 could be a different tune or crossover point if you're doing testing.


And Howell, good point about giving too many options. Going active gives a ton of opportunities/options but as you point out could be detrimental to someone just learning. Luckily JH1973 seems to be picking this up quickly and understanding the options pretty well.


----------



## dgage

By the way, this is the TM65 mkII thread and we should probably move this off topic to a dedicated thread. So JH1973, why don't you start a new thread and let us know the name of it here so we (and potentially others) can focus more on your individual needs. Thanks.


----------



## JH1973

Following you completely Gage.Thanks for taking the time with me here and thanks to everybody else for your patience and generous input with a DSP greenhorn...lol....time for bed now.....zzzzzzzz

I was thinking the same thing with the new thread and I apologize to Nick for hijacking this thread.In the future I will call it "My DSP thread" or something similar.


----------



## dgage

Howell said:


> I'd just like to call attention to the fact that your suggestion/offer was redundant, so as not to confuse the guy that's intimidated by all of this.
> 
> I'd like to commend you for offering your support, however. Although I realize I'm not exactly the guy who is in any position to offer commendation nor recalcitrance.
> 
> To the OP:
> 
> You're journeying into an unfamiliar space with many possible pifalls. It is at this point that I must admonish you of the value of research. These DSP interfaces can be intimidating, but they are much less so once you are fully versed in the nomenclature as well as the methods involved in being an "a.k.a. advanced car audio dude." Once you understand the nuances of crossovers, slopes, attenuation, and time alignment can you expect to fully leverage eveything at your disposal. You've already indicated a propensity to learn about this stuff...so I implore you to just do the due diligence and learn about this Art called Car Audio. You will never count your time spent learning as "wasted."


EDIT - I quoted Howell since he made some good points but the message is really intended for the OP about the DSP or anyone new to DSP and concerned with the complexity. 

I will say that it can be daunting at the beginning but if you focus on the workflow, it will make it much easier. 

Step 1 - Setup the inputs and outputs. Forget everything else and only hook up mids on low volume with low gain. Verify signal in goes to signal out. Play with turning Input 1 and passing it to Output 4 to get a feel for what's happening. You can use the mids to verify where things are going without the potential to damage a tweeter (don't hook up tweeters until you verify with a mid on LOW volume that the signal seems to be correct).

Step 2 - Add crossovers to the mix. Again, use the mids on LOW volume to make sure the crossover is passing the correct signal to the correct channels on the amps. You could spend quite a bit of time on here moving the tweeter/mid crossover point from 2500-3500 (depends on your speakers) and slope of 6/12/24 dB or you could just pick 3,000 Hz and 12 dB and start listening to your system. You will control how much you want to play with some of this stuff. 

Step 3 - Now you can start taking measurements and playing with EQ settings and time alignment. You may have to go back to Step 2 in playing with crossover points but you shouldn't have to revisit Step 1 unless you decide to change how your system is setup.

There is a workflow and if you pay attention in the documentation, you will start to see it and intuitively understand it better. Steps 1 and 2 are pretty straightforward and quick to setup and understand. This will give you a working system assuming you have all of the speakers and amp channels you need. Then you can start to play with Step 3 a little at a time, gaining confidence and capability. You don't have to learn this stuff all at once, and you don't have to learn too much if you don't want to. You could just as easily find a local shop or a not-too-far DIYMA member with tuning capabilities and let them do the heavy lifting. Or you could slowly grow your capabilities and the capabilities of your system. 

And as Howell so poignantly pointed out, everything you learn will be applicable for the future whether it be for car audio or home audio. Also, the capabilities you learn will potentially save you money in the future as many of the best tuners don't spend as much on fancy speakers and instead get good speakers and make the most of them with tuning capabilities.


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## PorkCereal

Maybe we can move the hu mini dsp install tips not directly related to the tm65 to another thread or pms.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Howell

PorkCereal said:


> Maybe we can move the hu mini dsp install tips not directly related to the tm65 to another thread or pms.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Agreed.

However I will (hopefully; perhaps) sum up this mini-segment with the notion that all the above tips, although accurate (and I can see your method of madness...which is rather calculated) are an attempt at getting you to start from the top-down. I would encourage you to learn the basics of:

1.) Crossovers; passive and active and how they are different and how they can be used differently or in conjunction with one another.

2.) The signal chain (perhaps this should have been #1) and how changes made at the source might effect everything downstream of said source...and also how changes made afterward/downstream (via DSP, EQ, Crossover, or T/A) affect all those things that are "lower" in the chain.

3.) Time Alignment and all the Witchcraft thereof. It's probably one of the more straightforward subjects in this realm; esoteric though it may seem. Simple calculations based upon real world measurements.

I give you this list not as an exercise in busywork...but in the hope that you understand the basic concepts employed in all of this, so that you can better understand a way to leverage your options. There was a time when you had to buy a lot of extra stuff to do it right. Now that stuff is built in to (more or less) every amp on the market. I'm mostly referring to crossovers here...especially since they are the biggest thing to understand when going active.

And (I'm really sorry Nick, for supporting the huge range of OT-ness here) to bring this full circle back to the TM65 mkII...going active is really the only way to go to "use" these drivers in the way they were intended to be used. If you want simple, just hand your cash to a salesperson/installer and buy some Rockford Fosgate stuff or whatever they tell you is neat at the time. I assume you are in a DIY forum for that very reason (the DIY aspect). So I'm not trying to be hard on you...but maybe someone has to? Hopefully everyone finds this as constructive as it was intended.

Furthermore...the TM65 mkII sound like amazing drivers and I would love to have someone buy some so that I can play with them. My cars nor my current budget have any room. Believe me; I've been proselytizing locally. 

Good day, Ladies and Gents

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## JH1973

PorkCereal said:


> Maybe we can move the hu mini dsp install tips not directly related to the tm65 to another thread or pms.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Yes,we addressed this earlier and I will start a new thread.In a sense it's related as I will more than likely be purchasing a set of TM65's and M25's in the very near future.


----------



## tRidiot

Back on to the TM65 mkII - got shipping notification today.


----------



## rob feature

tRidiot said:


> Back on to the TM65 mkII - got shipping notification today.



Sweet - they're here! :cheesy:


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## JH1973

I just ordered a pair of these.Been on the fence long enough and all my research pointed me straight to them.Now I got to figure out which amp I want to run.


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## SloVic

Are these ready to ship?


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## JH1973

They were out of stock for a short while and then yesterday available.So not sure what you mean?


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## Electrodynamic

SloVic said:


> Are these ready to ship?


Yes they are ready for shipment.


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## 1fishman

Hey Nick I got the TM65 mkII today, they look very impressive. I'm looking forward to getting them installed and spending some time listening. 

I really appreciate you reaching out and setting things right. Your letter and phone call was great and really meant a lot to me, Thanks


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## dsquared

I'm glad you guys worked it out. Life is too short to be misunderstood and under appreciated . Fishman you will love the TMs.
Still have not installed my subs because I'm simply enjoying these things !


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## JH1973

Just got mine today.My first impression is one word.....Quality! Frame is so sturdy and strong ,magnet is robust and cone is so stiff.Seems like they need 300 watts minimum just to move! I'm not sure my mounting idea is going to hold up.These things are heavy.My angled mdf spacers are angled from 3/4 down to a 1/4.They'll be attached to 1/2 inch ABS plactic mounts so that should help.Hell,I'm not sure the door frame is strong enough...lol.

One question.....My spacers fit very snuggly.To flush them I have to slightly force it.Should I sand the inner diameter of the rings to make the fit more comfortable or is snugger better?


----------



## Electrodynamic

JH1973 said:


> Just got mine today.My first impression is one word.....Quality! Frame is so sturdy and strong ,magnet is robust and cone is so stiff.Seems like they need 300 watts minimum just to move! I'm not sure my mounting idea is going to hold up.These things are heavy.My angled mdf spacers are angled from 3/4 down to a 1/4.They'll be attached to 1/2 inch ABS plactic mounts so that should help.Hell,I'm not sure the door frame is strong enough...lol.
> 
> One question.....My spacers fit very snuggly.To flush them I have to slightly force it.Should I sand the inner diameter of the rings to make the fit more comfortable or is snugger better?


I would sand them a little bit so they fit precise so it doesn't require pushing them in.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Hey Nick I got the TM65 mkII today, they look very impressive. I'm looking forward to getting them installed and spending some time listening.
> 
> I really appreciate you reaching out and setting things right. Your letter and phone call was great and really meant a lot to me, Thanks


No problem. The fault was on my end completely with me acting totally out of line. Unfortunately my "mood" during that time didn't only extend to you as I was jumping on family members, other customers, and, well, basically everyone that was around me. After about a two hour long sit-down with close family I ended up pulling a giant one of these:


----------



## dgage

Not that this necessarily excuses Nick's previous actions but I do want to point out that he suffers from multiple sclerosis and has to have periodic infusions among other treatments.

I have diabetes and over the last couple years I was having complications as my doc tried to find the right medicine for my type 2 (pills) diabetes. Unfortunately, he should have jumped straight to insulin as I am now fully controlled with insulin as I'm now a type 1 diabetic. Unfortunately, I dealt with low testosterone, depression, and some other issues so I know how precious life and health are. And that is with diabetes, which is a breeze compared to what Nick has to deal with. 

Again, not trying to excuse actions, just to explain. Glad to see everything worked out in this situation.


----------



## seafish

Electrodynamic said:


> No problem. The fault was on my end completely with me acting totally out of line....


Electro, while I LOVE your equipment, the way 1Fishman was treated here made me feel bad in a way that I never really felt comfortable with but I couldn't express for fear of making the situation worse for everyone, so I just kept my mouth shut. I feel MUCH better now. THANKS for that.

More importantly, it takes a good heart and big balls to admit stuff like this publicly on a forum...Kudos to you, Sir, for making it right with words and action!!!


----------



## tRidiot

dgage said:


> I have diabetes and over the last couple years I was having complications as my doc tried to find the right medicine for my type 2 (pills) diabetes. Unfortunately, he should have jumped straight to insulin as I am now fully controlled with insulin as I'm now a type 1 diabetic.


If your description is accurate, you are not a Type 1, you are an insulin-dependent Type 2. Types 1 and 2 are completely different diseases and you don't convert from one to another - although trying to explain it properly to folks who don't understand sometimes leads medical professionals to oversimplify things in an effort to ease the confusion.

Glad you have it under control, though.


----------



## quickaudi07

I'm glad all worked out guys, yes sometimes its hard to bring balls and say sorry for being wrong or whatever the case maybe, 
I know I did when i was buying something from Hybrid and what kind of treatment i got, but I apologized and all was good... 

Sometimes we have to put our anger away and just simply walk away... well to me that's sometimes the best medicine.. but everyone is different and we can't control anyone but our self's.

On that note.. I can't wait to get my hands on a set! Shhh don't tell anyone!

Also I'm in the mood for some HST 12" or maybe 15" LoL call me crazy and i will tell you I don't care!


----------



## dgage

tRidiot said:


> If your description is accurate, you are not a Type 1, you are an insulin-dependent Type 2. Types 1 and 2 are completely different diseases and you don't convert from one to another - although trying to explain it properly to folks who don't understand sometimes leads medical professionals to oversimplify things in an effort to ease the confusion.
> 
> Glad you have it under control, though.


I'm just going off of what the Endocrinologist told me. I would have understood your explanation if she had given it.  SInce you may be a medical expert, my family doctor put me in Xigduo and I lost weight from my normal weight of 195 (6') down to 155. Finally he threw up his hands and sent me to the Endocrinologist. The docs were all surprised that Xigduo had that big of an effect. But yes, now all controlled on Toujeo and Novolog. Last few A1C test have been 5.2-5.4. I feel great and so happy I have control of my health again. Oh, one bad thing, when I gained weight back, I went past 195 to 225 before settling back at 212, which is more than I would like but I'm not complaining.


----------



## Dan750iL

I just got mine and I'm pretty stoked. Not only do they seem to be built like tanks but they also fit perfectly in the OEM adapters for my 04 Dakota. They even have a gap for the wires that are the perfect size. It doesn't look like Mother nature is going to allow me to install them today but if she gives me an opening of an hour or so today or tomorrow I'll be all over it.


----------



## JH1973

Dan750iL said:


> I just got mine and I'm pretty stoked. Not only do they seem to be built like tanks but they also fit perfectly in the OEM adapters for my 04 Dakota. They even have a gap for the wires that are the perfect size. It doesn't look like Mother nature is going to allow me to install them today but if she gives me an opening of an hour or so today or tomorrow I'll be all over it.


Yeah,I'm looking forward to hearing these bad boys! It seems from holding them that my 12" sub is going to have a hard time keeping up.My install is going to be a lot more involved than yours but I'm in no hurry.Good luck and please post a review when you fire them up!


----------



## Victor_inox

Got my second pair today. Arent they pretty.









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## quickaudi07

All I could say is.. Hellllzzz Yeahhh!


----------



## Dan750iL

I finally got a chance to install them last night. After only about an hour or so of listening I can honestly say I'm going to love these speakers. They are still running on the crossover freqs and eq settings for the speakers they are replacing (CDT Audio QEX-680, a damn thumping mid bass in its own right) and still they sound great. Much smoother and more detailed than the CDTs. I can still feel the mid bass in my chest but it's not as punchy. 

Once I get them dialed in I'm pretty sure I'm not going to want to get out of my truck.

The setup in my truck:
Pioneer DEH-X8800BHS
Helix DSP.2
(2) Polk Audio MM840 subs in a prefab custom box
TM65 MkIIs in the stock location in the doors
Audiofrog GB25s in the dash
Audiofrog BG15s in the sails
Alpine PDX-V9 driving the 15s, 25s and subs
MB Quart MA1-440.4 bridged to drive the TM65s


----------



## jaandrade79

Those tm65s are a full range speaker? They sure look good.

I really want a pair. But I think I might need to go active with the dash 2.75" speakers as tweets and those as the mids, 2014 Silverado.

Just wanna bang


----------



## dvboy

I just pulled the trigger on a set of these on a moment of weakness.Certainly don't need another set of mids,but these seem like a real nice match with a two way system considering their extension.


----------



## t3sn4f2

jaandrade79 said:


> Those tm65s are a full range speaker? They sure look good.
> 
> I really want a pair. But I think I might need to go active with the dash 2.75" speakers as tweets and those as the mids, 2014 Silverado.
> 
> Just wanna bang


It's not a "fullrange" speaker since it's not meant to be used without a tweeter. (Note the quotations)


----------



## jaandrade79

t3sn4f2 said:


> It's not a "fullrange" speaker since it's not meant to be used without a tweeter. (Note the quotations)


I was looking for the frequency response range of these speakers and I couldn't find it clearly. I am not a newb but there are some things I still don't understand after all these years. Does this speaker distort trying to play higher frequencies or does it just not respond to the higher frequencies? Or more specifically, can I just run it off an amp with hpf and be done with it or will I need to get a dsp to run these properly? 
I want a dsp but don't have the money or time for one now. Thanks for any input. 

Just wanna bang


----------



## quickaudi07

These puppies are no joke that's for sure ! 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## dgage

jaandrade79 said:


> I was looking for the frequency response range of these speakers and I couldn't find it clearly. I am not a newb but there are some things I still don't understand after all these years. Does this speaker distort trying to play higher frequencies or does it just not respond to the higher frequencies? Or more specifically, can I just run it off an amp with hpf and be done with it or will I need to get a dsp to run these properly?
> I want a dsp but don't have the money or time for one now. Thanks for any input.


Here is the frequency response graph which shows they are good up to 3,500 Hz before they start dropping. But that will get you integrated with just about any decent tweeter as even most 3/4" tweeters can get down near 3,000 Hz.










You don't necessarily need a DSP, you can use an amp's crossover. But you'll need 2 channels of amplification with high and low pass crossovers for the TM65s and another 2 channels of amplification with low pass crossover for the tweeters.


----------



## jaandrade79

dgage said:


> Here is the frequency response graph which shows they are good up to 3,500 Hz before they start dropping. But that will get you integrated with just about any decent tweeter as even most 3/4" tweeters can get down near 3,000 Hz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't necessarily need a DSP, you can use an amp's crossover. But you'll need 2 channels of amplification with high and low pass crossovers for the TM65s and another 2 channels of amplification with low pass crossover for the tweeters.


Thanks for that.

I am just going to use the alpine power pack I have now, it has separate front and rear filters for the front dash highs and mids in the front doors of my Silverado. I will worry about the rear doors later.

Just wanna bang


----------



## JH1973

Could get a nice 5 channel amp with band pass filter and x10 switch.The JL XD amps offer this but they're pricey.


----------



## Alrojoca

I think kicker has amps with the 10x filters too, and upper range freqs, Very handy to run tweeters and also may be able to band pass mids also but I would not count on it since my memory is not fresh regarding the bandpass.


That poor car's paint, wow it really caught my eye besides the nice speakers


----------



## quickaudi07

Why not just get a crossover that you could adjust manually ? Also kicker have new amps with build in crossovers and DSP in them... Something to look forward forward too. I know many of us don't want to hear kicker but damn they came a long way and back in the day.. not my days... They were outstanding SQ amps!!! 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## jaandrade79

quickaudi07 said:


> Why not just get a crossover that you could adjust manually ? Also kicker have new amps with build in crossovers and DSP in them... Something to look forward forward too. I know many of us don't want to hear kicker but damn they came a long way and back in the day.. not my days... They were outstanding SQ amps!!!
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


The first amp I bought brand new (not from a pawn shop) was a kicker zr120. It wasn't all that powerful but combined with the kicker 10" in bandpass box pounded in my Nissan 300zx. Back then (the 90s) kicker was the ****. 

I also have the audiocontrol three.2 crossover/eq installed in my truck so I will be able to tune the mids with that to some extent. And it has a 24db slope crossover.

As soon as I have a few hundred extra bucks I am going to grab a pair of these. I watched that slo mo video of the tm65s pounding and damn they have some serious travel. Can't wait. I Have a wife and three daughters so it might be a couple months but they are the next purchase on the build list. 



Just wanna bang


----------



## quickaudi07

I understand when you say kids and wife... Life its self right ... Well MT speakers are well worth the money hands down 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## ADS928

After ordering them a few months back I finally got my pair but can't listen to them as my pair of PH15.2 amps are out being repaired.

Can't wait to hear them as it seems like they will be more than happy bandpassed between 65-2,500Hz that my old ADS 642ix modules allow. 

I just hope they play nice with my Samarium Cobalt tweeters...


----------



## quickaudi07

Mine are playing with Audiofrog GB15 tweeters bigger format that most are... Have them crossed @ 60 to [email protected] DB and they keep putting smile on my face and k owing the music I throw at them... They eat the alive and spit that out at the same time... Truly impressed with the.. they get very loud, detailed, and sound like little subs in my doors. I'm very impressed with them... And did I say it's easy to tune them. 

I really did y had much of tuning done. Set the crossovers left the TA the same and let them brake in.... With in a week I will pull out RTA and see what I'm looking at.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## dcfis

ADS928 said:


> After ordering them a few months back I finally got my pair but can't listen to them as my pair of PH15.2 amps are out being repaired.
> 
> Can't wait to hear them as it seems like they will be more than happy bandpassed between 65-2,500Hz that my old ADS 642ix modules allow.
> 
> I just hope they play nice with my Samarium Cobalt tweeters...


What tweets are those?


----------



## ADS928

dcfis said:


> What tweets are those?


Old ADS tweeters that came with the 320i component set. They are legendary in SQ communities for arguably being one of the best tweeters ever made.


----------



## dcfis

I want some, looked up that ads guy and first look like he is selling anymore? Richard So





ADS928 said:


> dcfis said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tweets are those?
> 
> 
> 
> Old ADS tweeters that came with the 320i component set. They are legendary in SQ communities for arguably being one of the best tweeters ever made.
Click to expand...


----------



## murphmobile

I am currently in the planning / education stages of upgrading my 15 Grand Cherokee Overland (9spk OEM w/amp w/o HK) and its been about 15 years since my last car audio build. Lots of change and a lot to learn. 

I picked up at Helix P Six MKII to hopefully use as a combo amp/dsp unit and am looking for drivers now to replace the OEM.

It looks like the TM65MKII are exactly what I have been looking for.

I'd like to use the tweets too but a little concerned with how they would install in the factory A pillars. 

My questions to you guys with experience are these: 


How does the 120/ch of the Helix look for power? 
If I went with 4 of them in the front / rear doors, provide enough low end to delay upgrading the sub stage? I know this is subjective, and of course depends on the type of music, etc...and I really hadnt considered it a possibility until reading through the thread. Im not a basshead but appreciate a nicely blended low end and while the factory sub isn't getting it done now, im wondering if it could be "good enough" after new speakers and a proper tune.
Any thoughts on if the M25s in the Jeep GC factory location would work without too much or a problem for the installer. Not really looking for anything requiring custom or too complex to install as I will need to find an installer in North Carolina and haven't found anyone yet I trust in the Triad Area. 

Thanks in advance,
-Murph


PS- As a newb to the forum, reading through the 41 pages of this thread can make a man's head spin  but a lot of very helpful info. It certainly appears you guys know each other well and are a pretty tight knit bunch.


----------



## deefIV

Murphmobile - I'm running my MkII's off a PSix DSP MKII and it is plenty of power. Before the TM65 MKII's I had Scanspeak Revelators and they were great but the TM65 MKII's are so much better. I have them high passed at 50hz and they rock.


----------



## nineball76

deefIV said:


> Murphmobile - I'm running my MkII's off a PSix DSP MKII and it is plenty of power. Before the TM65 MKII's I had Scanspeak Revelators and they were great but the TM65 MKII's are so much better. I have them high passed at 50hz and they rock.


Plan to use the p six myself with mk1. Worried the mk2 won't be getting enough juice. 

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

nineball76 said:


> Plan to use the p six myself with mk1. Worried the mk2 won't be getting enough juice.


Don't confuse power hanlding with power requirement. You can use less than rated power.


----------



## nineball76

Not confusing the two at all. Question was, what would I be losing by switching to the mkii and essentially halving the power? 

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


----------



## quickaudi07

nineball76 said:


> Not confusing the two at all. Question was, what would I be losing by switching to the mkii and essentially halving the power?
> 
> Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


You will gain a crazy midbass driver  

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

nineball76 said:


> Not confusing the two at all. Question was, what would I be losing by switching to the mkii and essentially halving the power?
> 
> Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


Good. Gotcha.  The mkII is a little less sensitive than the mkI so you'll loose a little bit of output in the top end but the midbass and bass will still be better with the mkII.


----------



## dvboy

If anyone is looking for a good deal on these drivers,I have a basically new set for sale in the classifieds here


----------



## quickaudi07

What's the reason for sale these are bad ass!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## dvboy

quickaudi07 said:


> What's the reason for sale these are bad ass!
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


They definitely dig deeper than the Hertz 1600 I have,but I just like the overall sound of the Hertz slightly more,it was a tough decision.


----------



## quickaudi07

Hmm.... 

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----------



## Thepensname

I think the MKII's are fantastic if the price were triple people would think they "sound better", something that comes with paying a monthly mortgage payment for your midbass. I posted my review on Amazon as soon as they went "live" there. 
Great drivers Nick. 
Matt H


----------



## quickaudi07

Me love SI!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## DeTech

I would like to add other reviews my findings using the TM65MKII . These replaced Image Dynamics 6x9 midbass. I have been using these for about 3 months now running off a jl hd600/4 and i am fully satisfied. They have much better low end and punch all around. I will be ordering another set as these were for my girlfriends car but i had to try after all the reviews.


----------



## dsquared

Are you using that amp bridged, 300x2 for juice to them?


----------



## quickaudi07

I love my set seriously I went through so much and spend so much. From hybrid to Sinfoni, and so on the list keeps going and going... But so far I'm very satisfied and they are getting 220 if not more w rms from Mosconi Zero 4 I simply smile each time I hear just the mids without my massive sub !

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----------



## DeTech

Not currently but have been thinking of trying that once i get a weekend free.


----------



## quickaudi07

You should ,????

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

quickaudi07 said:


> I love my set seriously I went through so much and spend so much. From hybrid to Sinfoni, and so on the list keeps going and going... But so far I'm very satisfied and they are getting 220 if not more w rms from Mosconi Zero 4 I simply smile each time I hear just the mids without my massive sub !
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


I forget, are you one of the people running FOUR of them ??


----------



## tRidiot

seafish said:


> I forget, are you one of the people running FOUR of them ??


That would be me. 

Is there someone else running four?


----------



## quickaudi07

I only got one set.  But soon I'm thinking of having SI 18" in IB setup!!!!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

tRidiot said:


> That would be me.
> 
> Is there someone else running four?


I think so, but I could well be wrong...maybe post a link to the pics of your TM65 install and I'll reply if those are the ones that I remember. 

That being said, I will in fact be using two pairs of these when I do my build.


----------



## quickaudi07

seafish said:


> I think so, but I could well be wrong...maybe post a link to the pics of your TM65 install and I'll reply if those are the ones that I remember.
> 
> That being said, I will in fact be using two pairs of these when I do my build.


That will be nuts  

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## dgage

quickaudi07 said:


> But soon I'm thinking of having SI 18" in IB setup!!!!


Wuss! 

HS-24 mkII 24″ Subwoofer | Stereo Integrity


----------



## quickaudi07

It won't fit lol or I would !

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

quickaudi07 said:


> It won't fit lol or I would !
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


We will be building quickaudi07 his own IB-specific 18" driver pretty soon.  

...although a custom tailored 24" driver would have been more impressive.


----------



## quickaudi07

Unless someone could help me install 24" than I'll be all in for it 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tRidiot

seafish said:


> I think so, but I could well be wrong...maybe post a link to the pics of your TM65 install and I'll reply if those are the ones that I remember.
> 
> That being said, I will in fact be using two pairs of these when I do my build.



Here's the link to my review thread - unfortunately, my pics were a victim of the Photobucket fiasco.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ussion/333482-my-review-mkii-looong-read.html


----------



## rob feature

quickaudi07 said:


> Unless someone could help me install 24" than I'll be all in for it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'll help you. It'll be over the phone or sommat, but go ahead & order it.


----------



## quickaudi07

LoL you know I drive a CC which is a VW  over the phone won't work.... Sorry lolz ???

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## soundquality4me

Finally got them in!!!!!!

How many watts should I be feeding these puppies?


----------



## JH1973

soundquality4me said:


> Finally got them in!!!!!!
> 
> How many watts should I be feeding these puppies?


I've got 200 RF Punch power on each one.Still not live yet.Install will be done this weekend hopefully.


----------



## quickaudi07

I'm doing 220+ each side

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----------



## quickaudi07

Holy cow guys today on my way home from work I was jamming out with will does closed AC on... There was a truck right next to me with loud ass engine , the guy actually hear my music and I had no sub on... He said holy **** what do you have I said nothing special but I told him I will give him a demo well he was surprised hehehe that's the truck on the lights where he stocked out his head. I listen to that song when he turned stocked his head out the window lol lmao! 
I guess they get planty loud enough for him to hear my car over loud ass sami truck.
















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----------



## 18inch

hi all, will there be an x-over premade for this? been a good 7years havent been in car audio scene and getting back into it, looking for good components is a pain tbh! lol, these set though seem like the best for the money. always loved SI's products
altough im all for active front end, i would still want use my rear door speakers for some occasions but dont want to run more than one 4-channel amplifier! cause then well, price gets pretty high.

how are you guys setting your M25 and TM65 mk2 power wise/xover ?
would be nice if there is at least an optimal crossover schematic design so we could build it ourself too!

thoughts or ideas for how can i achieve making all speakers work ? running a Kenwood X997 fwiw and still looking for a 4-channel amp.


----------



## soundquality4me

quickaudi07 said:


> I'm doing 220+ each side
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


I only have 145 rms to give to each of them, the ppi 900.4 amp. 
Do you think I need some more to improve the midbass?


----------



## quickaudi07

soundquality4me said:


> I only have 145 rms to give to each of them, the ppi 900.4 amp.
> 
> Do you think I need some more to improve the midbass?




All depends what is it that you're looking for. See how you like it. I have mine crossed at 60 @24 do slope up too 2300 and they shine...

I like them a lot....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## quickaudi07

I think 200 w rms per side is a sweet spot 


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----------



## rob feature

quickaudi07 said:


> I think 200 w rms per side is a sweet spot


That's exactly how many powers I have ready for mine. Gonna try & get 'em in this weekend. Can't wait to hear these puppies in my doors. :guitarist:


----------



## quickaudi07

rob feature said:


> That's exactly how many powers I have ready for mine. Gonna try & get 'em in this weekend. Can't wait to hear these puppies in my doors. :guitarist:




Take it ease on them at first. Let them brake in... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## quickaudi07

soundquality4me said:


> I only have 145 rms to give to each of them, the ppi 900.4 amp.
> 
> Do you think I need some more to improve the midbass?




As long as it's clean 145 w per ch.. you should be golden... since u won't run so much power to them, you be able to cross them a lot lower maybe 40-50's heheh try it... they sound so good...


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----------



## 18inch

quickaudi07 said:


> Holy cow guys today on my way home from work I was jamming out with will does closed AC on... There was a truck right next to me with loud ass engine , the guy actually hear my music and I had no sub on... He said holy **** what do you have I said nothing special but I told him I will give him a demo well he was surprised hehehe that's the truck on the lights where he stocked out his head. I listen to that song when he turned stocked his head out the window lol lmao!
> I guess they get planty loud enough for him to hear my car over loud ass sami truck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Looll thats crazy! only with 1 pair?!


----------



## quickaudi07

Yes just one pair of SI speakers... Than he asked me if we could pull over on gas station so he could take a listen... He said it sounds amazing at all volumes. Than I put the sub on and he was raving LoL 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## quickaudi07

He never heard anything like this, and he was amazed that only 4 speakers up front could do. I told him you don't need much just good sounding system , we exchange numbers and he said he would love to put something in his truck and his car.. I said not a problem. I told him SI... It won't brake you wallet but it will bring a smile to your face . He said deal... He already text me LoL

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## 18inch

Looll thats amazing man ! Makes me wanna pull the trigger really bad on these!


----------



## quickaudi07

I don't usually drool over a product that much but these are f awesome 

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----------



## quickaudi07

I'm sure you all seen the post SI vs. AudioFrog testing. I wonder to see the results!

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----------



## Thepensname

dgage said:


> Wuss!
> 
> HS-24 mkII 24″ Subwoofer | Stereo Integrity


You need this woofer? I threw up this wall in my Ford Edge couple days before Midwest Audiofest, previously won 1st place in MECA SQL using it in 8 cubes sealed, finished 1st again this time in ModEx division.









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Thepensname

dgage said:


> Wuss!
> 
> HS-24 mkII 24″ Subwoofer | Stereo Integrity


HS-24









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----------



## dcfis

I'm scared to ask about the roll of crap paper at a demo


----------



## Coppertone

That's to use for clean up upon hearing that beastly of a subwoofer lol.


----------



## seafish

dcfis said:


> I'm scared to ask about the roll of crap paper at a demo


I feel like a 10 year old, but I haven't laughed like that hard in awhile!!! 

That caption should permanently go with the pic!!!


----------



## quickaudi07

Hahahahha good one
There is no way in hell that sub will fit in my car lol

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## jaandrade79

Thepensname said:


> You need this woofer? I threw up this wall in my Ford Edge couple days before Midwest Audiofest, previously won 1st place in MECA SQL using it in 8 cubes sealed, finished 1st again this time in ModEx division.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




That is amazing. I like it. Wish I coulda heard that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## quickaudi07

Crazy lol

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Thepensname

jaandrade79 said:


> That is amazing. I like it. Wish I coulda heard that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the MKII'S and M25'S also, just installed MiniDSP 6x8 last week, can't wait till Electrodynamic decides to release the Neo Xbl² 3" broadband driver, he sent me some pics of the only prototype pair and omg!!!! Talk about HAT killers! He doesn't think we could full pre-order to get them rolling. I started a FB page dedicated to trying to make that happen. 240 drivers, 120 pairs. I think that would be doable, do you guys/girls? After hearing the MKII'S and M25'S I'm hooked!!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## crackinhedz

I'd be in for the 3"s 

...any chance of a pm of the prototype pic?


----------



## crackinhedz

dcfis said:


> I'm scared to ask about the roll of crap paper at a demo


That's not the port??


----------



## dcfis

Price first


----------



## Thepensname

crackinhedz said:


> I'd be in for the 3"s
> 
> ...any chance of a pm of the prototype pic?


I must apologize for earlier posting that pic 3 times. I was using mobile and this site currently sucks for me on mobile, pics nor posts displayed LOL. 

Anyone can PM me for any info I have. Nick is totally awesome and works really hard to produce awesome products, true to DIYMA tradition the heated arguments, personal attacks, misinformation and disinformation continue on Facebook. I personally have disliked Facebook for over a decade, I rarely used it other than posting pics of kids for family. What I have found in the last 7 months: I can reach a bigger audience, I can load pictures and read comments and posts in real time, I can see who is actually slamming products for no good reason (Brand-NutHuggery is alive and well), and best of all the groups are private so I don't have my family seeing how much time I spend arguing Harmonic Distortion plots while I'm at work. DIYMA may never go away and I may never leave, as this is truly where the roots of my knowledge started, but I will use this much less. Our group has grown from 100 to 4000 members since March, I have some great people there: Mark from Car Audio Fabrication, Derek Williston (sp?) as in Big D Wiz, Mr Electodynamic himself pops in from time to time and others who chose to remain fairly hidden. Our current growth has spawned new levels of disinformation, personal attacks etc, Soap Opera's are alive and Well!! LOL

Last night (I don't sleep much) at about 4 am, I stumbled upon a post about the new Audison Bit One HD DSP, someone was saying wildly ignorant statements having nothing to do with SQ. I Chimed in with THD of that unit vs the MiniDSP8x12, Vrms out, compared processors, bands of Parametric EQ or PEQ, the hate came fast and hard "You stupid" "This is crap" "who buy this ****" ... there was however a guy on the feed who was interested in what I had to say and he spoke up. The next thing I know, the personal attacks stopped, the guy says "Oh hahaha, these aren't as expensive as Sales people tell you" (He had been bragging about $1200 being cheap to have "the best"). Next thing I know he says "PM me, I will sell you a unit at Dealer Cost". The tides are turning, maybe just for a day, but I hope not. The days of relying on people to behave as "Sheep" and just simply buy the "pretty box" that you are told "this is the best, you need it", those days are drawing to an end. 

Support peole like Nick Lemons, support people who have real working knowledge of technical parameters, support people who have not lied to you over the years, Support Parts Express, Support Madisound, Support SolenCA, Support MiniDSP (who wants tunning to be a mobile app? I do). Who want's a 3" XBL2 wideband driver that is sexy as F*CK and blows HAT out of the water while costing less? I do. 

You have made it this far, you may now have your reward: XBL2 porn


----------



## Thepensname

crackinhedz said:


> I'd be in for the 3"s
> 
> ...any chance of a pm of the prototype pic?




What is this? Spy Photos of the Neo XBL2 Wideband?


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## Thepensname

dcfis said:


> I'm scared to ask about the roll of crap paper at a demo


This was taken after the show. I installed bracing to be able to push more power into the sub. As I said this wall was tossed in days before, staying up the night before Midwest Audiofest all night. 

As to the toilet paper, I have 3 girls, my girls have gone to every MECA show I have attended if you've never felt the need for more than a tissue pack when on the road with two teens and a baby I commend you.


----------



## Thepensname

Thepensname said:


> This was taken after the show. I installed bracing to be able to push more power into the sub. As I said this wall was tossed in days before, staying up the night before Midwest Audiofest all night.
> 
> As to the toilet paper, I have 3 girls, my girls have gone to every MECA show I have attended if you've never felt the need for more than a tissue pack when on the road with two teens and a baby I commend you.



Last spy photo of driver


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## speakerman99

Thepensname said:


> Last spy photo of driver




What's the Facebook group? I'd be down for a set!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LumbermanSVO

Thepensname said:


> HS-24
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I have an idea on how to use the neo 24 in my Bronco, and possibly even have it hidden when the top is down. It's REALLY tempting to order one. I think I also need 2 more MkII 24's for my house, silly hobbies...


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## mrichard89

I'd buy a set


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## dgage

LumbermanSVO said:


> I have an idea on how to use the neo 24 in my Bronco, and possibly even have it hidden when the top is down. It's REALLY tempting to order one. I think I also need 2 more MkII 24's for my house, silly hobbies...


I've measured my 24s in multiple rooms and they don't start rolling off until 7 Hz and in one case 6 Hz. Pretty potent subs to be flat to 6 or 7 Hz. Definitely recommend a couple for the HT. Maybe throw in some HST18s in the rear to even out the bass throughout the room.


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## nineball76

Thepensname said:


> What is this? Spy Photos of the Neo XBL2 Wideband?


What? I want a few sets. 

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


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## Thepensname

The neo 24 can fit just about anywhere, tiny box requirements considering. Just need a couple horsepower amp... 

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## Thepensname

That's two sets then, I want one, Electrodynamic set up the pre-order... Please? Maybe after the MKV prototype is squared away?

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## WhereAmEye?

Here's three sets


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## quickaudi07

I think my amp will work very well for it 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

Thepensname said:


> I must apologize for earlier posting that pic 3 times. I was using mobile and this site currently sucks for me on mobile, pics nor posts displayed LOL.
> 
> Anyone can PM me for any info I have. Nick is totally awesome and works really hard to produce awesome products, true to DIYMA tradition the heated arguments, personal attacks, misinformation and disinformation continue on Facebook. I personally have disliked Facebook for over a decade, I rarely used it other than posting pics of kids for family. What I have found in the last 7 months: I can reach a bigger audience, I can load pictures and read comments and posts in real time, I can see who is actually slamming products for no good reason (Brand-NutHuggery is alive and well), and best of all the groups are private so I don't have my family seeing how much time I spend arguing Harmonic Distortion plots while I'm at work. DIYMA may never go away and I may never leave, as this is truly where the roots of my knowledge started, but I will use this much less. Our group has grown from 100 to 4000 members since March, I have some great people there: Mark from Car Audio Fabrication, Derek Williston (sp?) as in Big D Wiz, Mr Electodynamic himself pops in from time to time and others who chose to remain fairly hidden. Our current growth has spawned new levels of disinformation, personal attacks etc, Soap Opera's are alive and Well!! LOL
> 
> Last night (I don't sleep much) at about 4 am, I stumbled upon a post about the new Audison Bit One HD DSP, someone was saying wildly ignorant statements having nothing to do with SQ. I Chimed in with THD of that unit vs the MiniDSP8x12, Vrms out, compared processors, bands of Parametric EQ or PEQ, the hate came fast and hard "You stupid" "This is crap" "who buy this ****" ... there was however a guy on the feed who was interested in what I had to say and he spoke up. The next thing I know, the personal attacks stopped, the guy says "Oh hahaha, these aren't as expensive as Sales people tell you" (He had been bragging about $1200 being cheap to have "the best"). Next thing I know he says "PM me, I will sell you a unit at Dealer Cost". The tides are turning, maybe just for a day, but I hope not. The days of relying on people to behave as "Sheep" and just simply buy the "pretty box" that you are told "this is the best, you need it", those days are drawing to an end.
> 
> Support peole like Nick Lemons, support people who have real working knowledge of technical parameters, support people who have not lied to you over the years, Support Parts Express, Support Madisound, Support SolenCA, Support MiniDSP (who wants tunning to be a mobile app? I do). Who want's a 3" XBL2 wideband driver that is sexy as F*CK and blows HAT out of the water while costing less? I do.
> 
> You have made it this far, you may now have your reward: XBL2 porn




ok, i try to hold my tongue as much as possible, but this whole post is full of ****ery. heres a few that stick out






Thepensname said:


> Brand nuthuggery is alive and well


i can see that.. i heard you got pretty upset once you found out nicks last slim sub was a tweaked version of another companies driver lol







Thepensname said:


> Support peole like Nick Lemons... support people who have not lied to you over the years



this is one big contradiction. sorry to break the news, but the dudes been lying about various things since he has been on this forum. various ratings on his drivers like xmax and usable freq. range, multiple "closing sales to the public" fire sales, etc etc. 






Thepensname said:


> Who want's a 3" XBL2 wideband driver that is sexy as F*CK and blows HAT out of the water while costing less?


now im not exactly a fan of HAT drivers, but holy **** thats beyond a bold claim. theres only pictures of a 3" xbl driver yet your claiming it blows HAT out of the water? yeah, just like you said.. brand nut huggery is alive and well


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## Thepensname

Do you mean the MKII? There are other similar speakers on the planet, Dec 2016 Rainbow ProFi released pics but I've never seen them hit the market, if they do they would be $600+ I'm sure. 

In terms of adopting other people's platforms, meaning people who own rights on baskets, motors, etc, xbl² for example belonging to Dan Wiggens, Nick doesn't take credit for that. He mentions the build house in question in the beginning of the thread. 

Lots of references to various rumors, I've not seen any documentation of what you're talking about. I plan on getting DAT2 in the near future, so I can do a number of things I can't currently. 

CT sounds drivers have reliable specs? SKAR? Car audio is a shell game. The only true technical review of seen if SI woofers came from driver database.com and this was for the original HS-24 MKI, biggest critique being the motor strength which Nick changed with the HSMKII, adding 25-30# to the motor. I've had my 24" in a number of boxes on over 2000 watts and never had an issue, I did go though 5 Dayton UM18-22'S in 11 months that had product/manufacturing details. 

The drivers in those pics were sold to a guy in California who competes in SQ, don't know him personally. 

I blew one 6.5" MKII bc I was running without a highpass on full power, unlike tradition under-hung motor where you hear Distortion before I driver reaches it's limits, xbl² sounds great tool it's too late. 

So yeah, slander is alive and well. I don't see any specific references to specs being found to be off, don't see any references to where there were fire sales, I did see him sell drivers in November for a discount, several were prototypes, some were already made up drivers. Stereo Integrity was robbed awhile back, in a fashion that screams corporate espionage, steeling prototypes, invoices with build house info, suppliers, computers etc, but maybe that was a hoax too? 

"Our drivers are so unique, they don't look like any other drivers on the market". 

It's like Todd Snider says "If your the one pointing the finger than nobody is probably looking at you". 



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## LumbermanSVO

dgage said:


> I've measured my 24s in multiple rooms and they don't start rolling off until 7 Hz and in one case 6 Hz. Pretty potent subs to be flat to 6 or 7 Hz. Definitely recommend a couple for the HT. Maybe throw in some HST18s in the rear to even out the bass throughout the room.


I'm buying some land so I can build a new home. The idea is a six car garage as the main floor, with a one bedroom apartment on top, with a big room for the kitchen/living area. I already have two MkII 24's, and and thinking two more would be perfect. Then I could put one in each corner of the room IB and use the floor as the baffle. With the right processor setup, I could use the subs for both the living area and garage. Simple, effective, and it wouldn't use much space.


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## Thepensname

So jealous. The thought of only needing one bedroom. Build it out of SIPS panels and use DC inverter heat pumps, so cheap to run, the house I rent is constructed out of SIPS including cathedral celling, no structural support required. 

Definitely going back to sealed for the 24" in car though. Probably going to try a 12" in one cube square box, has the exact same motor as the 24". 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

i dont see how you addressed any of the points i mentioned.. mostly just random babble


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## dgage

Guys. Can we not let another SI thread devolve to this? There is another thread to complain about SIs previous actions. Feel free to bring that thread back up but if this continues, we'll have to get the mods in to clean up yet another thread. I'll leave it that Nick at SI deserves some of this for previous actions but he isn't as bad as SkizeR says nor as great as Thepensname says.


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## quickaudi07

Whatever negative you guys have in regards to Nick or SI in general... I say move along everyone makes mistakes and bad things. Put that **** behind you and be Happy... There is no need for this ********. We are all adults here... At least start acting like one..... Just saying..

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

dgage said:


> Guys. Can we not let another SI thread devolve to this? There is another thread to complain about SIs previous actions. Feel free to bring that thread back up but if this continues, we'll have to get the mods in to clean up yet another thread. I'll leave it that Nick at SI deserves some of this for previous actions but he isn't as bad as SkizeR says nor as great as Thepensname says.





quickaudi07 said:


> Whatever negative you guys have in regards to Nick or SI in general... I say move along everyone makes mistakes and bad things. Put that **** behind you and be Happy... There is no need for this ********. We are all adults here... At least start acting like one..... Just saying..
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


just calling out the clear foolery that hes preaching about how these speakers that pretty much dont exist outside of photos are "HAT killers".. its **** like that that swayed this forum from what it was truly about.. actual data backed claims. having a favorite brand is fine and is expected, but that ****.. how can you sit back and read that and not say anything? come on guys..


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## dgage

The speaker doesn't exist for consumers so no reason to even respond to such talk. I agree, not a smart statement for a product no one has seen. He's obviously a fan boy and you're an anti-fan boy, we get it. Nothing to see here, move along. This is the TM65 thread so maybe we should stop the subwoofer off-topic as well as any other speakers outside of the TM65 mkII.


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## bassfromspace

SkizeR said:


> just calling out the clear foolery that hes preaching about how these speakers that pretty much dont exist outside of photos are "HAT killers".. its **** like that that swayed this forum from what it was truly about.. actual data backed claims. having a favorite brand is fine and is expected, but that ****.. how can you sit back and read that and not say anything? come on guys..


But $5000 amplifiers should go unquestioned? DIYMA is FARRRRRRR from anything it previously represented.


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## rton20s

As long as we're getting wildly off topic, while somehow remaining somewhat related...

You can find XBL^2 3" drivers out there in the market, readily available for purchase. 

Illusion Carbon C3 and Audience A3S are the two that come to mind. Sundown also has the SA 2.75FR. I've run both the Illusion and the Sundown. The Sundowns are gone, but the C3s will be installed in my wife's car. I've not had a chance to hear the Audience.


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## Niebur3

I will be VERY interested to see the Klippel results of the MKii. 

I'm hoping the result show what everyone seems to be claiming. If they do, that is one hell of a driver. I mean, 35HZ (or something like that) out of a 6.5"??? I think the last post I read claimed 150dB at 35Hz .....j/k. All I have to say is that at 35Hz, I would expect the distortion to be off the charts. Time will tell.


----------



## rton20s

Niebur3 said:


> I will be VERY interested to see the Klippel results of the MKii.
> 
> I'm hoping the result show what everyone seems to be claiming. If they do, that is one hell of a driver. I mean, 35HZ (or something like that) out of a 6.5"??? I think the last post I read claimed 150dB at 35Hz .....j/k. All I have to say is that at 35Hz, I would expect the distortion to be off the charts. Time will tell.


Easy solution. Adjust the scale of the charts.


----------



## ChrisB

All drama aside, I have a serious question. Will these fit in a 2013 VW GTI door with just a 3/4" spacer? I had to make a 1" spacer for my current 6.5 and I would like something with a stronger midbass response that can take some power.

EDIT: I'm torn between these, one of the various Morel drivers, or just going back to the tried and true JL Audio C5-650 woofer.


----------



## Dan750iL

ChrisB said:


> All drama aside, I have a serious question. Will these fit in a 2013 VW GTI door with just a 3/4" spacer? I had to make a 1" spacer for my current 6.5 and I would like something with a stronger midbass response that can take some power.


How deep are the 6.5s you have in there now? These are only 2.4" deep so if the others are 2.75" or more you should be set.


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## ChrisB

Dan750iL said:


> How deep are the 6.5s you have in there now? These are only 2.4" deep so if the others are 2.75" or more you should be set.


The Genesis 6.5 is just a hair under 2.75"


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## Dan750iL

You should be good to go.


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## bilbo6209

ChrisB said:


> All drama aside, I have a serious question. Will these fit in a 2013 VW GTI door with just a 3/4" spacer? I had to make a 1" spacer for my current 6.5 and I would like something with a stronger midbass response that can take some power.
> 
> EDIT: I'm torn between these, one of the various Morel drivers, or just going back to the tried and true JL Audio C5-650 woofer.



The TM65's are about the only thing that will fit in an Audi A5 door with only a .75" spacer and I a would be floored if the GTI's doors are any shallower  So yes you should be fine.


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## Thepensname

Last time I checked the Audience driver was $180 CA, I've not heard these personally, the specs seem to good to be true but two drivers in a box go for $900 so who knows. Here's the spec if anyone here isn't familiar:

The Audience A3 is a breakthrough full range loudspeaker driver design 

comprised of a patented motor structure, patent-pending suspension and 

patent pending basket. The A3 has an exceptionally flat response from 40Hz 

to 22Khz, and -20 at 20Hz with very high power handling and dynamic 

range. The A3 is built like a high power sub woofer driver using a large neo-

dymium motor structure, big voice coil and suspension venting. The A3 is 

ultra responsive at 2.5 grams total moving mass providing state of the art 

resolution and dynamic range. The A3 sports 12mm of usable excursion 

with less than 1 dB compression at levels up to 95 dB SPL.








rton20s said:


> As long as we're getting wildly off topic, while somehow remaining somewhat related...
> 
> You can find XBL^2 3" drivers out there in the market, readily available for purchase.
> 
> Illusion Carbon C3 and Audience A3S are the two that come to mind. Sundown also has the SA 2.75FR. I've run both the Illusion and the Sundown. The Sundowns are gone, but the C3s will be installed in my wife's car. I've not had a chance to hear the Audience.





rton20s said:


> As long as we're getting wildly off topic, while somehow remaining somewhat related...
> 
> You can find XBL^2 3" drivers out there in the market, readily available for purchase.
> 
> Illusion Carbon C3 and Audience A3S are the two that come to mind. Sundown also has the SA 2.75FR. I've run both the Illusion and the Sundown. The Sundowns are gone, but the C3s will be installed in my wife's car. I've not had a chance to hear the Audience.












Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Thepensname

rton20s said:


> As long as we're getting wildly off topic, while somehow remaining somewhat related...
> 
> You can find XBL^2 3" drivers out there in the market, readily available for purchase.
> 
> Illusion Carbon C3 and Audience A3S are the two that come to mind. Sundown also has the SA 2.75FR. I've run both the Illusion and the Sundown. The Sundowns are gone, but the C3s will be installed in my wife's car. I've not had a chance to hear the Audience.


GR Research has several Xbl² drivers as well, none smaller than 5" I believe. The owner stated DSP'S are basically horrible so I lost interest in that brand rather quickly after that communication. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## dcfis

Well, compared to the high end caps and custom tube amps a dsp just doesnt jive with the usual audiophile systems. Its so far out of their lexicon they really can't contemplate it. I mean their (mine too to some extent) whole life is making small eq and phase changes with different caps, nos tubes, and resistors and tripling+ the cost and tweeking when your need 2,3,4 ect custom valve amps a little black box dsp with smt off the shelf caps and crappy little dacs is like ripping out the hand made movement of your new patek and replacing with a mass produced quartz




Thepensname said:


> rton20s said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as we're getting wildly off topic, while somehow remaining somewhat related...
> 
> You can find XBL^2 3" drivers out there in the market, readily available for purchase.
> 
> Illusion Carbon C3 and Audience A3S are the two that come to mind. Sundown also has the SA 2.75FR. I've run both the Illusion and the Sundown. The Sundowns are gone, but the C3s will be installed in my wife's car. I've not had a chance to hear the Audience.
> 
> 
> 
> GR Research has several Xbl² drivers as well, none smaller than 5" I believe. The owner stated DSP'S are basically horrible so I lost interest in that brand rather quickly after that communication.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


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## rton20s

Yeah, the Audience specs really should be take with a big ol' shaker of salt. For instance, "12mm of usable excursion" equates to 3-4mm of xmax depending on how you want to measure (70% BL, 10% THD, etc). I'm also not sure of others' opinions, but +/- 16dB does not equate to "exceptionally flat response from 40 Hz to 22 kHz." 

I'm not saying they aren't good drivers, because I have never heard them. It is just a matter of really stretching the specs to produce the ad copy.


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## RRizz

Also forgot to mention they are 13 ohm drivers with an RMS handling of 20 watts


----------



## 18inch

so other than the clearly strong midbass, how are the vocals and instruments details at mid to high volume on these (terms of sound quality) when properly powered?


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## quickaudi07

I say try them for yourself, these are not that expensive to other drivers... Im Sure you will be very surprised how these sound and they could do. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## JH1973

Well my set has been installed now for about a month.Just got the input gains on the DSP set so I do have some volume.Amp gains are still all the way down though so the potential is not realized at this point.Still have so much tuning to do and this is my first active system.

That being said currently they're BP from 70-3200hz on a 24db slope.I will say that they sound super smooth and clear.I cannot imagine what these things will sound like once I have full volume,dialed in Xovers,EQ and TA.Looking forward to it and will report back.


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## GEM592

JH1973 said:


> Well my set has been installed now for about a month.Just got the input gains on the DSP set so I do have some volume.Amp gains are still all the way down though so the potential is not realized at this point.Still have so much tuning to do and this is my first active system.
> 
> That being said currently they're BP from 70-3200hz on a 24db slope.I will say that they sound super smooth and clear.I cannot imagine what these things will sound like once I have full volume,dialed in Xovers,EQ and TA.Looking forward to it and will report back.


Good to hear, you have that Fosgate bridged to them then?


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## JH1973

GEM592 said:


> JH1973 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well my set has been installed now for about a month.Just got the input gains on the DSP set so I do have some volume.Amp gains are still all the way down though so the potential is not realized at this point.Still have so much tuning to do and this is my first active system.
> 
> That being said currently they're BP from 70-3200hz on a 24db slope.I will say that they sound super smooth and clear.I cannot imagine what these things will sound like once I have full volume,dialed in Xovers,EQ and TA.Looking forward to it and will report back.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear, you have that Fosgate bridged to them then?
Click to expand...

Yep,they're getting 200w each.I need to be careful setting the gains on them because it's very possible to clip the speakers before the amp.

Here's a few pics of the install.Both amps and DSP under seats and TM's in door.


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## GEM592

Wow looks good buddy. Slow and steady wins the race.


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## dgage

JH1973 said:


> Yep,they're getting 200w each.I need to be careful setting the gains on them because it's very possible to clip the speakers before the amp.


Nice system and I'm glad it's coming along though I know it always takes longer than we'd like! And it is better to run into the speakers limit's before the amp's limits. If you run into the amp's limits before the speaker, you'll send an amplified and clipped signal, which can be very damaging to a speaker/sub. Of course, you don't want to overpower a speaker either or you could fry the voicecoil. But generally I like to ensure the amp has more in the tank than I'm using on the speakers just to ensure good clean power is available. And you can check the voltage with a DMM to see what sort of power you are truly sending to your speakers.


----------



## JH1973

Thanks Gage and Gem.I work 50-60 hours a week so yes the whole install/tune process has been very slow(weekends only where I can) but I've learned a ton so far and am really looking forward to getting into EQ and TA.Got a UMIK1 and already downloaded REW.


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## quickaudi07

I enjoy them very much... great looking install


----------



## Thepensname

dcfis said:


> Well, compared to the high end caps and custom tube amps a dsp just doesnt jive with the usual audiophile systems. Its so far out of their lexicon they really can't contemplate it. I mean their (mine too to some extent) whole life is making small eq and phase changes with different caps, nos tubes, and resistors and tripling+ the cost and tweeking when your need 2,3,4 ect custom valve amps a little black box dsp with smt off the shelf caps and crappy little dacs is like ripping out the hand made movement of your new patek and replacing with a mass produced quartz


Right, but for the overwhelming majority of car audio SQ fanatics DSP's are a reality, it's kinda like saying fast food is "Food". Lacking the ability to spend on that level and ability to do "Good Will Hunting" level mathematics like advanced Fourier & Laplace transforms transforms, a DSP does serve many if not most in a more than adequate manner.


----------



## quickaudi07

Thepensname said:


> Right, but for the overwhelming majority of car audio SQ fanatics DSP's are a reality, it's kinda like saying fast food is "Food". Lacking the ability to spend on that level and ability to do "Good Will Hunting" level mathematics like advanced Fourier & Laplace transforms transforms, a DSP does serve many if not most in a more than adequate manner.


Yes I agree but everyone has some kind of DSP their car.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## dcfis

Thepensname said:


> Right, but for the overwhelming majority of car audio SQ fanatics DSP's are a reality, it's kinda like saying fast food is "Food". Lacking the ability to spend on that level and ability to do "Good Will Hunting" level mathematics like advanced Fourier & Laplace transforms transforms, a DSP does serve many if not most in a more than adequate manner.


Yes, which is why I do it in my car and am not opposed to do it in some powered monitors or even some other diy projects, but you have to understand these strict 2 channel guys and when they get it right its a transcendent experience in their custom built and measured rooms. Perfectly matched speakers, caps and tubes in their 60K custom tube amps. Even the transformer wire is specially wound from 1950s seasoned magnet wire. If they use dacs its the state of the art top of the line that are further bolstered by outboard power supplies and custom Cap values. 

Now, from a guy like that (and that is exactly the system GR has and everyone he associates with has) how do you think a mass produces Chinesium or Germanium black box sounds? It sounds like Caca compared to what they have. 

Now if and when the pro or boutique audio guys start offering all out dsps these die hards will finally accept them if the performance is up to par. Just like they did with music servers and Dacs. Once its good enough it will be readily adopted. They are after the best sound in the end. Maybe Raimonds is already a good bit down that path! Wait, thats pretty genius level mathematics isnt it? 

So, in closing you CANNOT discount the guys opinion without seeing his point of view and understanding where he is coming from. Just like you couldnt dismiss Corky Bell or Carroll Shelby when they tell you not to waste your time with a K&N filter and a resistor on the MAF.


----------



## quality_sound

JH1973 said:


> Yep,they're getting 200w each.I need to be careful setting the gains on them because it's very possible to clip the speakers before the amp.
> 
> Here's a few pics of the install.Both amps and DSP under seats and TM's in door.


You can't clip a speaker


----------



## ADS928

quality_sound said:


> You can't clip a speaker


Yeah, but you can ever exert and distort the hell out of it


----------



## quality_sound

ADS928 said:


> Yeah, but you can ever exert and distort the hell out of it




Exert? 

Yes, you can overdrive one, but you can't clip one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JH1973

Well I set my gain structure today and all crossovers.These things combined with 1 tweeter(I roasted my other one and am waiting on my new set)are completely overpowering my 12" Kicker sub.All the bass is up front,period ended! I can hardly even hear or feel my sub.Granted,I have not EQ'ed yet or TA so those things may change the game.Also,my front stage has 550w vs my sub getting 300w.


----------



## Swaglife81

After reading the last 10 pages of this blog. I gotta say this driver has to be one of the better bang for the buck driver's around. Price to Quality probaly can't be beat. I need to get on Amazon and grab a set but still ultimately planning my install


----------



## JH1973

Well I've been using these now full bore for a while.Still not EQ or TA but getting all the juice.I am no expert in SQ but I can say that these are absolutely crushing my 5.25 Polks.The volume they put out is more than my ears can handle.I no longer just have bass coming from behind me in the trunk.I've got it all around me literally.Can feel it on my legs and chest now.For the money Nick charges for these I can say with confidence that I'm very satisfied with my purchase.I only now have to eventually upgrade my low end to keep up with this front stage.


----------



## disconnected

I installed mine with FAST rings in my Corvette.


----------



## quickaudi07

disconnected said:


> I installed mine with FAST rings in my Corvette.


And what do you think ??

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## disconnected

Still breaking them in, however, the Mid-bass and bass is incredible. I am very impressed. Wow.


----------



## quickaudi07

disconnected said:


> Still breaking them in, however, the Mid-bass and bass is incredible. I am very impressed. Wow.


I was the same way... Now I'm thinking SI still deciding but either IB or one crazy HST.. 

And these little buggers up on dash in the pillars.









Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## disconnected

I have these.


----------



## quickaudi07

I have audio frog GB15 right now I like them but I wanna see how these wide band work out 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## disconnected

The price just went up!


----------



## naiku

disconnected said:


> The price just went up!


I think the price change is actually due to them being sold in pairs vs individually.


----------



## Lanson

disconnected said:


> I have these.


The Alpines should be crossed around 3.1-3.5kHz or so. Any lower and things start looking not so good for them.

Where are you crossing yours relative to your TM65's?


----------



## Dan750iL

naiku said:


> I think the price change is actually due to them being sold in pairs vs individually.


The sold in pairs part is definitely better but I think they were $150/ea. Still a good price IMO.


----------



## disconnected

fourthmeal said:


> The Alpines should be crossed around 3.1-3.5kHz or so. Any lower and things start looking not so good for them.
> 
> Where are you crossing yours relative to your TM65's?


I have the tweeters and mids crossover at 4khz. I might go down to 3.15k. I have a nasty peak @ 2khz. The TM65 does do more than 2.5khz. So I have a peak around 2k and a dip around 2.5k, then a peak again at 4khz.


----------



## rob feature

Dan750iL said:


> The sold in pairs part is definitely better but I think they were $150/ea. Still a good price IMO.


Yep, they were $150 each. $170 each now. Glad I got mine on the preorder.


----------



## 18inch

quickaudi07 said:


> I say try them for yourself, these are not that expensive to other drivers... Im Sure you will be very surprised how these sound and they could do.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


well, guess what, i did end up pulling the triggers and are installed for about 2weeks now, i must say that they are some pretty solid components! 

The install was a real PITA (not speaker related) but these are worth the effort! now i think i need to feed them more power, running roughly 80rms on each, they sound really clean especially in the bass/midbass department! They get loud as is but i bridged the amp for fun and they actually shine even more with proper power!! thinking of getting another amp and bridge them for about 150rms ..

Also sending roughly 25rms to each tweeter and they are so efficient i dont know who would be crazy enough to send them more than that, they easily get loud!! 

And honestly the build on these are stunning, so much attention to details and everything feels solid, no cheap crap! love it, im officially a firm believer in StereoIntegrity. Very happy with the purchase, also glad i got them before the price increase, hehe, although even at the current price i truly believe they are well worth it!

i might do a build thread on these

i dont usually do this but with this caliber of build quality i just had to take some nice shots of that ass!!! heres some woofer porn for yall


----------



## Iamsecond

Yes, these want power. I did the same thing. I have a sundown saw 50.4 bridges and one on each channel and they really came to life.


----------



## quickaudi07

Now you guys know why I like them in the first place 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

18inch said:


> well, guess what, i did end up pulling the triggers and are installed for about 2weeks now, i must say that they are some pretty solid components!
> 
> The install was a real PITA (not speaker related) but these are worth the effort! now i think i need to feed them more power, running roughly 80rms on each, they sound really clean especially in the bass/midbass department! They get loud as is but i bridged the amp for fun and they actually shine even more with proper power!! thinking of getting another amp and bridge them for about 150rms ..
> 
> Also sending roughly 25rms to each tweeter and they are so efficient i dont know who would be crazy enough to send them more than that, they easily get loud!!
> 
> And honestly the build on these are stunning, so much attention to details and everything feels solid, no cheap crap! love it, im officially a firm believer in StereoIntegrity. Very happy with the purchase, also glad i got them before the price increase, hehe, although even at the current price i truly believe they are well worth it!
> 
> i might do a build thread on these
> 
> i dont usually do this but with this caliber of build quality i just had to take some nice shots of that ass!!! heres some woofer porn for yall


Wow, great photos...especially the first picture.  

To the topic(s) of this page our main concern was mating our mid/midbass with our tweeter in an active configuration. Our tweeter can play down to 2,000 / 2,200 Hz with an active 24 dB or 48 dB per octave crossover slope which makes for a seamless integration between the two drivers. We currently have the TM65 mkII / M25 combo in our mk4 Jetta crossed over at 2,000 Hz using 48 dB/octave slopes.


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick is Awesome !! 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## quickaudi07

Well last night I was playing around with my system a little and I did something crazy !! Lol

And I'm WoW about it. They keep putting smile on my face constantly and it's the most wonderful feeling ever. I have dropped mine to 50hz @12db all the way too 2200 @12db
I'm throwing the same amount of power and nothing has changed. And they shine... No wonder Nick is being sublease in his VW! 

I'm wow .. anyone that has them should give that a try ... I absolutely love it.









Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## McKrakken

THis looks very enticing - I love the 2ohm!


----------



## SQ_Blaze

Electrodynamic said:


> Wow, great photos...especially the first picture.
> 
> To the topic(s) of this page our main concern was mating our mid/midbass with our tweeter in an active configuration. Our tweeter can play down to 2,000 / 2,200 Hz with an active 24 dB or 48 dB per octave crossover slope which makes for a seamless integration between the two drivers. We currently have the TM65 mkII / M25 combo in our mk4 Jetta crossed over at 2,000 Hz using 48 dB/octave slopes.


Nick, it seems as though you shuffle your crossover points around quite a bit, and I must say, I've tried them all. I've seen you say running the TM65 MK2's all the way out and the M25's at 2 kHz, or run the TM65 MK2's at 2 kHz and the M25's at 2.5 kHz (which is what I'm currently running). The TM65 MK2's are running down to 40 Hz, all at 24 dB slopes.

This particular combo really sounds great, and with tweaking TA a little more, I'm not even running any EQ except for on the top end, +2 dB @ 8 kHz and +4 dB @ 12 kHz. I have the tweeters dialed down a bit and suspect I have to boost the top end slightly since they are in the dash firing straight up into the windshield. Either way, the current tune sounds great.

Once I get the Helix installed, I want to try running everything at 42 dB slopes. I would also like to get the tweeters up in the A-pillars, probably off-axis. Probably anything is better than firing into the windshield, though it does sound mighty fine right now.


----------



## quickaudi07

SQ_Blaze said:


> Nick, it seems as though you shuffle your crossover points around quite a bit, and I must say, I've tried them all. I've seen you say running the TM65 MK2's all the way out and the M25's at 2 kHz, or run the TM65 MK2's at 2 kHz and the M25's at 2.5 kHz (which is what I'm currently running). The TM65 MK2's are running down to 40 Hz, all at 24 dB slopes.
> 
> This particular combo really sounds great, and with tweaking TA a little more, I'm not even running any EQ except for on the top end, +2 dB @ 8 kHz and +4 dB @ 12 kHz. I have the tweeters dialed down a bit and suspect I have to boost the top end slightly since they are in the dash firing straight up into the windshield. Either way, the current tune sounds great.
> 
> Once I get the Helix installed, I want to try running everything at 42 dB slopes. I would also like to get the tweeters up in the A-pillars, probably off-axis. Probably anything is better than firing into the windshield, though it does sound mighty fine right now.


Why would you want to run the mids at 42db???


Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## SQ_Blaze

quickaudi07 said:


> Why would you want to run the mids at 42db???
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Why not? Just to see what it sounds like. I can change it anytime I want. 

I know higher slopes cause ringing, but not sure if that's just with passive networks or not. Maybe active crossovers don't induce that ringing.


----------



## Holmz

There is less crossover with a higher slope.
For the driver in a DSP tuned setup it would not matter, but for any area that is not in the sweet spot then there is less frequency range for cancellation.

That becomes no issue if the two speakers are very close together.


----------



## quickaudi07

I guess I need to give a try 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Holmz

quickaudi07 said:


> I guess I need to give a try


Only if you want to know for sure...


----------



## SQ_Blaze

Yeah, I figure it wouldn't hurt just to try. You never know until you try, right? ;-)


----------



## quickaudi07

SQ_Blaze said:


> Yeah, I figure it wouldn't hurt just to try. You never know until you try, right? ;-)


That's right I can't agree with you more 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## disconnected

Well, my chinese Alpine tweeters are no longer. The 2k roll off of the TM65 and the 3.15k x-over for the tweeters was not doing it for me. So I set the crossover too low, at 2.5khz. The 100 watts of power and the low crossover point was no match for the tweeter. 

I am looking for a replacement tweeter. I am open to suggestions. The SI M25 is too large for my tweeter pods. 
My initial thoughts are:
Audiofrog GS10 $200
Audiofrog GB10 $275
Focal TNK $200

The dimension for the tweeter need to be 25mm or smaller for my application.
I would consider the SI M25, if someone could lathe down the bezel from 62mm to 54mm.

What other tweeters should I be looking at for under $300?


----------



## Theslaking

Ask Nick if he can make you a pair of m25 without the bezel. Best part about a local retailer.


----------



## I800C0LLECT

Andy says the GB10 tweeters can cross at 2KHz with 24 decibel slopes


----------



## denny9742

What crossover points do yall recommend when paired with two mk iv subs?


----------



## PorkCereal

I cross mine at 60 @ 12db right now just because that's where i had my v1. Have no complaints 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## SQ_Blaze

disconnected said:


> Well, my chinese Alpine tweeters are no longer. The 2k roll off of the TM65 and the 3.15k x-over for the tweeters was not doing it for me. So I set the crossover too low, at 2.5khz. The 100 watts of power and the low crossover point was no match for the tweeter.
> 
> I am looking for a replacement tweeter. I am open to suggestions. The SI M25 is too large for my tweeter pods.
> My initial thoughts are:
> Audiofrog GS10 $200
> Audiofrog GB10 $275
> Focal TNK $200
> 
> The dimension for the tweeter need to be 25mm or smaller for my application.
> I would consider the SI M25, if someone could lathe down the bezel from 62mm to 54mm.
> 
> What other tweeters should I be looking at for under $300?


I was running my SI M25's at 1.6 kHz for a while. They played perfectly fine, but I had to make EQ adjustments to help them play nicely with the mids. Now I have them at 2.5 kHz, reason being they blend near perfectly with the TM65 MkII's at 2.5 kHz and require zero EQ correction. Mids are crossed over at 2 kHz.


----------



## Niebur3

SQ_Blaze said:


> I was running my SI M25's at 1.6 kHz for a while. They played perfectly fine, but I had to make EQ adjustments to help them play nicely with the mids. Now I have them at 2.5 kHz, reason being they blend near perfectly with the TM65 MkII's at 2.5 kHz and require zero EQ correction. Mids are crossed over at 2 kHz.


Are you saying the combo at 2.5khz required zero eq to have a flat frequency response in a car?


----------



## unix_usr

disconnected said:


> Well, my chinese Alpine tweeters are no longer. The 2k roll off of the TM65 and the 3.15k x-over for the tweeters was not doing it for me. So I set the crossover too low, at 2.5khz. The 100 watts of power and the low crossover point was no match for the tweeter.
> 
> I am looking for a replacement tweeter. I am open to suggestions. The SI M25 is too large for my tweeter pods.
> My initial thoughts are:
> Audiofrog GS10 $200
> Audiofrog GB10 $275
> Focal TNK $200
> 
> The dimension for the tweeter need to be 25mm or smaller for my application.
> I would consider the SI M25, if someone could lathe down the bezel from 62mm to 54mm.
> 
> What other tweeters should I be looking at for under $300?


Do have to say I've been VERY pleased with my GB10s . . .


----------



## quickaudi07

unix_usr said:


> Do have to say I've been VERY pleased with my GB10s . . .


I have GB15 and I love them 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Holmz

disconnected said:


> Well, my chinese Alpine tweeters are no longer. The 2k roll off of the TM65 and the 3.15k x-over for the tweeters was not doing it for me. So I set the crossover too low, at 2.5khz. The 100 watts of power and the low crossover point was no match for the tweeter.
> 
> I am looking for a replacement tweeter. I am open to suggestions. The SI M25 is too large for my tweeter pods.
> My initial thoughts are:
> Audiofrog GS10 $200
> Audiofrog GB10 $275
> Focal TNK $200
> 
> The dimension for the tweeter need to be 25mm or smaller for my application.
> I would consider the SI M25, if someone could lathe down the bezel from 62mm to 54mm.
> 
> What other tweeters should I be looking at for under $300?


Other than a GB 25 I am not sure.

You have a hole from 2kHz to 3kHz, and seem to be trying to shove power to a tweeter. If the tweeter is not efficient there, then you may have many dB of EQ gain to get the volume...

Using a midrange speaker is the classical approach to having midrange notes. Have you considered a 3-way?


----------



## SQ_Blaze

Niebur3 said:


> Are you saying the combo at 2.5khz required zero eq to have a flat frequency response in a car?


Yes. I have the TM65 MkII's running from 25 Hz to 2 kHz, the M25's from 2.5 kHz on up, all 4th order slopes. 

EQ settings...

80 Hz -2 dB
8 kHz +2 dB
12.5 kHz +4 dB


----------



## Niebur3

^^what octave resolution 1/3, 1/6? I'm not saying you are wrong, but that little eq and a flat Frequency Response?? I'd like to see the measurement.


----------



## JH1973

Niebur3 said:


> ^^what octave resolution 1/3, 1/6? I'm not saying you are wrong, but that little eq and a flat Frequency Response?? I'd like to see the measurement.


+1 please......waiting


----------



## SQ_Blaze

Niebur3 said:


> ^^what octave resolution 1/3, 1/6? I'm not saying you are wrong, but that little eq and a flat Frequency Response?? I'd like to see the measurement.


I never said it was a flat response or that I measured it. I said they blend perfectly. Meaning by ear.

Before, with the crossover for both mid and tweeter at 2.5 kHz, I was always tweaking the TA a little as well as level and EQ with different albums. I would get it sounding pretty good with one album, then as soon as I put on another album, I'd have to start tweaking all over again.

Now with the 500 Hz gap between the mid and tweeter, TA, level and EQ adjusted, the EQ ended up basically flat across the board. Pretty much anything I play through the system now sounds equally good. Also, the sound stage stays up on top of the dash where it belongs instead of dipping down around my knees.

If I have the time this weekend, I'll run REW on it and see what it looks like.


----------



## Niebur3

As long as you like how it sounds, that is what matters......even if REW doesn't like it....lol!

I must have read into the post too much.


----------



## SQ_Blaze

Niebur3 said:


> As long as you like how it sounds, that is what matters......even if REW doesn't like it....lol!
> 
> I must have read into the post too much.


Very true. Some really good sounding speakers don't measure very well.


----------



## SkizeR

SQ_Blaze said:


> Very true. Some really good sounding speakers don't measure very well.


Then it must not be a really good speaker after all then, huh?

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## SQ_Blaze

SkizeR said:


> Then it must not be a really good speaker after all then, huh?
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Dude, go read some damn hifi magazines and stop trying to bust my ****ing balls on everything I say. Damn...


----------



## SkizeR

SQ_Blaze said:


> Dude, go read some damn hifi magazines and stop trying to bust my ****ing balls on everything I say. Damn...


then dont say something that is total bs..?  


PS, what you said is something that hifi magazines say..


----------



## WhereAmEye?

So about that weather. Nick Lemons did you or your shop get hit by the crazy storm that raged through Monday? I know several people that still don’t have power around me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JH1973

SQ_Blaze said:


> SkizeR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then it must not be a really good speaker after all then, huh?
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, go read some damn hifi magazines and stop trying to bust my ****ing balls on everything I say. Damn...
Click to expand...

But what you are saying doesn't make sense.It's one thing if you like the way it sounds but to say it plays flat indicates a graph reading of a soundwave.The mid drivers are the most difficult to tune because they play the vast majority of the frequency range.They do most of the work and for you to claim that you got them to play flat with barely any EQ is very hard to believe.Just saying...


----------



## SQ_Blaze

JH1973 said:


> But what you are saying doesn't make sense.It's one thing if you like the way it sounds but to say it plays flat indicates a graph reading of a soundwave.The mid drivers are the most difficult to tune because they play the vast majority of the frequency range.They do most of the work and for you to claim that you got them to play flat with barely any EQ is very hard to believe.Just saying...


I never said **** about anything playing flat. Re-read my posts and you'll clearly see that not once did I say they "play" flat.


----------



## SQ_Blaze

SkizeR said:


> then dont say something that is total bs..?
> 
> 
> PS, what you said is something that hifi magazines say..


Yeah, whatever. You know everything, I know nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not worth my time.


----------



## Electrodynamic

WhereAmEye? said:


> So about that weather. Nick Lemons did you or your shop get hit by the crazy storm that raged through Monday? I know several people that still don’t have power around me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes sir. I was actually on the way back to my house from helping Jason Kable get his C10 ready for SEMA when the weather hit. I had to pull off the side of the interstate and sit under a bridge for about 10 minutes until the weather calmed down enough for me to drive faster than 20 mph. Crazy stuff.

But we got Jason's C10 finished enough for SEMA.


----------



## quickaudi07

Electrodynamic said:


> Yes sir. I was actually on the way back to my house from helping Jason Kable get his C10 ready for SEMA when the weather hit. I had to pull off the side of the interstate and sit under a bridge for about 10 minutes until the weather calmed down enough for me to drive faster than 20 mph. Crazy stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> But we got Jason's C10 finished enough for SEMA.




Good job Nick, 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## naiku

Electrodynamic said:


> Yes sir. I was actually on the way back to my house from helping Jason Kable get his C10 ready for SEMA when the weather hit. I had to pull off the side of the interstate and sit under a bridge for about 10 minutes until the weather calmed down enough for me to drive faster than 20 mph. Crazy stuff.


Lost power up here thanks to that storm, went out around 9:30 pm Monday and did not come back on until about 5 pm Tuesday. Thankfully I had tested the generator on Sunday afternoon and so it fired up on the first pull of the cord. The annoying thing is my home network has been acting really weird ever since.


----------



## JH1973

SQ_Blaze said:


> JH1973 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what you are saying doesn't make sense.It's one thing if you like the way it sounds but to say it plays flat indicates a graph reading of a soundwave.The mid drivers are the most difficult to tune because they play the vast majority of the frequency range.They do most of the work and for you to claim that you got them to play flat with barely any EQ is very hard to believe.Just saying...
> 
> 
> 
> I never said **** about anything playing flat. Re-read my posts and you'll clearly see that not once did I say they "play" flat.
Click to expand...

My bad then,it's just that you answered Niebur yes when he asked you if they play flat.Apparently you were referring to how they sound.I was intrigued because the response I'm getting with my TM65II's isn't close to flat even after EQ.


----------



## SQ_Blaze

JH1973 said:


> My bad then,it's just that you answered Niebur yes when he asked you if they play flat.Apparently you were referring to how they sound.I was intrigued because the response I'm getting with my TM65II's isn't close to flat even after EQ.


No, you're good. I see what I said to confuse things. When I read through Niebur's post, I thought he asked if it sounded good with the EQ flat. I was in a rush and didn't noticed he said "measured flat". 

So I should have started my next post saying "No" if I had correctly read his post. Sorry.


----------



## casey

are the latest version of these 4 ohm? Just going by what the website says.


----------



## Weightless

Yes, 4 ohms, svc.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## rob feature

Any word on the new version of these? :ears:

Seems like I saw a prototype somewhere with a carbon fiber cone & maybe some other changes.


----------



## rob feature




----------



## quickaudi07

I think they might be still in production. 
Nick will be the only one to know 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## rob feature

Yeah, I imagine he has his hands full shipping all the new BMs. Looks like the M3s will be shipping soon too. Need to hurry up & order a pair.


----------



## Electrodynamic

rob feature said:


>


Let me do you one better:



















Carbon fiber cone. 9 mm Xmax. Same 2.4" mounting depth. XBL^2 topology. Not only simply an improved diaphragm material but also a completely revised diaphragm/cone shape and material resulting in a considerably improved / smoother frequency response extending north of 7,000 Hz. The TM65 mkII was nice addition to our lineup but the mkIII version is a substantial improvement...especially for those customers looking for a solid 2-way system.

We have sent the prototype out to be measured by Warkwyn/Klippel so we will post the results on our Facebook page as soon as the results come in.


----------



## quickaudi07

These look beautiful Nick. And I'm sure performance of this driver will be even better 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## rob feature

Hubba Hubba!

Shut up & take my money. Standing by for the preorder :snacks:


----------



## Bnlcmbcar

That’s an awesome looking woofer and I’m excited to hear it’s sound reproduction capabilities. 

For a three way application where the 7khz considerations are not really utilized, will this woofer design deliver even more midbass than the TM65 mkii in a general 3-way midbass range of 75 hz - 500hz?


----------



## Justin Zazzi

Electrodynamic said:


> Carbon fiber cone. 9 mm Xmax. Same 2.4" mounting depth. XBL^2 topology. Not only simply an improved diaphragm material but also a completely revised diaphragm/cone shape and material resulting in a considerably improved / smoother frequency response extending north of 7,000 Hz. The TM65 mkII was nice addition to our lineup but the mkIII version is a substantial improvement...especially for those customers looking for a solid 2-way system.
> 
> We have sent the prototype out to be measured by Warkwyn/Klippel so we will post the results on our Facebook page as soon as the results come in.


Those are some really exciting pictures and specs. I can't wait to see what the testing results look like!


----------



## ManBearPig

Bnlcmbcar said:


> That’s an awesome looking woofer and I’m excited to hear it’s sound reproduction capabilities.
> 
> For a three way application where the 7khz considerations are not really utilized, will this woofer design deliver even more midbass than the TM65 mkii in a general 3-way midbass range of 75 hz - 500hz?


I am also curious about this.


----------



## Lanson




----------



## Bnlcmbcar

From Facebook:

Klippel frequency response of our carbon fiber TM65 mkIII. High frequency response to 6,000 Hz with extension to 10,000 Hz.


----------



## Justin Zazzi

Bnlcmbcar said:


> From Facebook:
> 
> Klippel frequency response of our carbon fiber TM65 mkIII. High frequency response to 6,000 Hz with extension to 10,000 Hz.


The chart is a little misleading since it looks like an LMS measurement at first, but the frequency resolution seems too high and the notes say data was imported.

I wonder what the testing conditions were like to produce that graph. Any smoothing applied?

I'm really, really intrigued!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Justin Zazzi said:


> The chart is a little misleading since it looks like an LMS measurement at first, but the frequency resolution seems too high and the notes say data was imported.
> 
> I wonder what the testing conditions were like to produce that graph. Any smoothing applied?
> 
> I'm really, really intrigued!


Justin you'll have to contact Warkwyn about how they smooth the response but out of all people you know what a totally un-smoothed response looks like (pretty bad and hard to read). Maybe I should have had them bold the FR trace to make it look a little cleaner.


----------



## Justin Zazzi

Electrodynamic said:


> Justin you'll have to contact Warkwyn about how they smooth the response but out of all people you know what a totally un-smoothed response looks like (pretty bad and hard to read). Maybe I should have had them bold the FR trace to make it look a little cleaner.


Of course! You could also ask them squash the vertical axis a bit to make the ups and downs seem smoother. They could also add a banana for scale, I think that's what Reddit usually does.

Seriously though, I'm really happy for you


----------



## dcfis

Any chance to get off axis measurements ?


----------



## GreatLaBroski

dcfis said:


> Any chance to get off axis measurements ?


Waterfall graph would be hugely helpful too.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar

Hey Nick,

Definetly looks like the mkIII will be more comfortable being able to play higher than the mkII over 3,000hz. So while the mkIII is be able to play higher than the mkII, will the newer mkIII design produce higher output levels than the mkII in regards to a generic 3-way midbass frequency range of 75 hz - 500hz?

{Given the same install conditions for both speakers}


----------



## Electrodynamic

dcfis said:


> Any chance to get off axis measurements ?





GreatLaBroski said:


> Waterfall graph would be hugely helpful too.


While we do have off-axis measurements we did not opt for waterfall graphs. Out of curiousity what other drivers / manufacturers publish any, or all, of that data that are within the same high-exursion 6.5" market? From what we have seen a 7+ mm Xmax fairly shallow 6.5" driver publishes on-axis measurements only. Why should we provide extra data when other companies do not publish the extra data (said companies aren't even asked for the data - it is assumed their published data is good enough without question)?


----------



## Holmz

Electrodynamic said:


> While we do have off-axis measurements we did not opt for waterfall graphs. Out of curiousity what other drivers / manufacturers publish any, or all, of that data that are within the same high-exursion 6.5" market? From what we have seen a 7+ mm Xmax fairly shallow 6.5" driver publishes on-axis measurements only. Why should we provide extra data when other companies do not publish the extra data (said companies aren't even asked for the data - it is assumed their published data is good enough without question)?


Maybe from a competitive perspective it makes little sense.
However there is a lot of excitement about the product, so it may help the business case as it could appear that there is nothing to hide?
(I dunno though)
But for me it helps to have confidence when seeing more data - like waterfalls and distortion vs frequency plots.

I think I have seen ScanSpeak have those other plots, but they are not your average 6.5 market player, and in this case the Wu18 are not overly shallow. So it is not the same animal to compare.


----------



## rob feature

Electrodynamic said:


> Why should we provide extra data when other companies do not publish the extra data (said companies aren't even asked for the data - it is assumed their published data is good enough without question)?


Because people have asked for it and you said you have it. Scan, SEAS and SB publish this data and I consider those direct competitors personally although not directly marketed to mobile customers. Not publishing it at this point makes it look like you're hiding something. Don't get me wrong - I love your drivers and my truck/closet proves that, but withholding data doesn't look good.


----------



## norurb

None of us are entitled to anything except the typical specs. You think you are? Show me your investment in this driver. You got nothing. Let the reviews speak for the driver.


----------



## Gump_Runner

Not withstanding the thread topic it say's a lot about a "vendor" that directly prioritizes feedback from customers and continues to be accessible for that. I don't own any SI products but I'm impressed by their drive to innovate. 

Cheers.


----------



## seafish

norurb said:


> None of us are entitled to anything except the typical specs.


And what are "typical" specs...maybe he should ONLY provide an RMS rating and dimensions like most other companies do!!




norurb said:


> Show me your investment in this driver. You got nothing.


FYI-- I "got" at least TWELVE Stereo Integrity drivers which means I am in fact invested in these drivers.



norurb said:


> Let the reviews speak for the driver.



How about, instead. letting the unadulterated testing specs speak for the driver and then let the subjective reviews here help sell the drivers??


----------



## dcfis

Your less than crap attitude always amazes. Legit companies provide this to customers I have never been refused except for you know who. You want any chance at my business, post them or send them. If not zero off my back







Electrodynamic said:


> dcfis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance to get off axis measurements ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GreatLaBroski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Waterfall graph would be hugely helpful too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While we do have off-axis measurements we did not opt for waterfall graphs. Out of curiousity what other drivers / manufacturers publish any, or all, of that data that are within the same high-exursion 6.5" market? From what we have seen a 7+ mm Xmax fairly shallow 6.5" driver publishes on-axis measurements only. Why should we provide extra data when other companies do not publish the extra data (said companies aren't even asked for the data - it is assumed their published data is good enough without question)?
Click to expand...


----------



## Holmz

norurb said:


> None of us are entitled to anything except the typical specs. You think you are? Show me your investment in this driver. You got nothing. Let the reviews speak for the driver.


Part of the problem is that the reviews look like a forum-boner reach-around club.

I do not know whether to believe the subjective reviews with no specs, or assume it is fake news and propaganda. As the ScanSpeaks had specs it was not worth the risk.

If customers are not entitled to see any specs, then the manufacture is not entitled to automatic money.


----------



## norurb

Holmz said:


> If customers are not entitled to see any specs, then the manufacture is not entitled to automatic money.


Go demand to see a waterfall plot of Pioneers cheapest woofer. Pioneer will tell you to go pound sand. Tell them you are entitled to see it. Let us know how far you get.

Manufactures have the absolute right to control the flow of information. Nothing you can do about it. Besides, give Nick a chance to roll out more info. It's early still.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Electrodynamic said:


> While we do have off-axis measurements we did not opt for waterfall graphs. Out of curiousity what other drivers / manufacturers publish any, or all, of that data that are within the same high-exursion 6.5" market? From what we have seen a 7+ mm Xmax fairly shallow 6.5" driver publishes on-axis measurements only. Why should we provide extra data when other companies do not publish the extra data (said companies aren't even asked for the data - it is assumed their published data is good enough without question)?


Multiple manufacturers do publish this data, albeit on select products. Those manufacturers that I recall seeing this type of data provided include Wavecor, Scanspeak, and Morel. But it always takes much more effort to disprove a statement, rather than to just assert it. I'll take your statement at face value and break this down into two pieces.

1. Off-axis measurements.
2. Other data (Waterfall graph, etc).

As far as off-axis response graphs go: right off hand the Scanspeak Illuminator 18WU/474T-00's do provide off-axis response graphs. The Satori MW16P-4 also provide this.

Let's bundle other data such as THD, Waterfall, Suspension Compliance, LE, etc into the second group.



Electrodynamic said:


> Why should we provide extra data when other companies do not publish the extra data


You'd do that specifically because other companies don't do it. I just figured that since you're really proud of the performance of your driver, that you'd be happy to showcase your speaker design achievement. No better way to do that than to showcase the proof in the pudding, which would be your driver performing at or better than it's competition in independent Klippel lab testing.

I just figured since you brought up the fact that you were sending it away for Klippel testing that you'd naturally be sharing the results. Otherwise, why did you bother to bring it up, only to get frustrated when people naturally asked to see it?



Electrodynamic said:


> (said companies aren't even asked for the data - it is assumed their published data is good enough without question)


As far as I can tell no one questioned the integrity of your data. You're the only one who brought that up. Contrary, we trust your published data so much that we are requesting for you to publish it. If we didn't trust it we wouldn't want it.

Anyways you'll do what you're going to do and I'm not writing this as an appeal to logic. You quoted me specifically so I'm just taking the time to reply. I'm interested in this product but I'm trying to figure out where in my system this makes sense. If I could see the frequency band where it provides good THD, output, and what its off-axis characteristics are then I'd be able to better understand the use-case and for what reason I should order it.


----------



## RRizz

https://youtu.be/Us18YjXmLhQ


----------



## GreatLaBroski

RRizz said:


> https://youtu.be/Us18YjXmLhQ


:laugh::laugh:


----------



## Holmz

norurb said:


> Go demand to see a waterfall plot of Pioneers cheapest woofer. Pioneer will tell you to go pound sand. Tell them you are entitled to see it. Let us know how far you get.
> 
> Manufactures have the absolute right to control the flow of information. Nothing you can do about it. Besides, give Nick a chance to roll out more info. It's early still.


Exactly

1) I have given Pioneer no money.
2) I have given Nick no money.

However I was inclined towards SI.

LaBroski worded it well.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Ok, thanks for the feedback. Just getting a feel for what you all want to see and value in terms of data. It seems that the higher the price the less mfg's publish data. I don't have waterfall plots for the driver but I will look at doing that in the future. 

A different company charges north of $750 for their 6.5's with less supplied data so I was asking what you guys want to see for a set that out-perform the $750+ set for less. Thanks.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Electrodynamic said:


> Ok, thanks for the feedback. Just getting a feel for what you all want to see and value in terms of data. It seems that the higher the price the less mfg's publish data. I don't have waterfall plots for the driver but I will look at doing that in the future.
> 
> A different company charges north of $750 for their 6.5's with less supplied data so I was asking what you guys want to see for a set that out-perform the $750+ set for less. Thanks. <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />


Makes sense, I’m interested. I just need more info to see where it makes sense in my setup.


----------



## Electrodynamic

The first FR was with zero smoothing @Justin Jazzi. Here is the zero smoothing FR:










1/24'th smoothing:










1/12'th smoothing:










We can publish more if needed.


----------



## SkizeR

Are those nearfield measurements? 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Holmz

Electrodynamic said:


> Ok, thanks for the feedback. Just getting a feel for what you all want to see and value in terms of data. It seems that the higher the price the less mfg's publish data. I don't have waterfall plots for the driver but I will look at doing that in the future.
> 
> A different company charges north of $750 for their 6.5's with less supplied data so I was asking what you guys want to see for a set that out-perform the $750+ set for less. Thanks.


I like the distortion versus Freq like Erin did on Medley Musings for the Wu18.
And the decay versus time, I like as well.

However I suspect that the off-axis plot are more what most people want.
(But I am not putting mine in kick panels)

It looks like it is a good product, which you should be proud of... so I hope that the release of specs results in an increase of confident sales for your company.

All the best!


----------



## rob feature

Holmz said:


> However I suspect that the off-axis plot are more what most people want.


Yip - overlaid on the same graph if possible. That & the parameter set is all I ever ask, but more information is never a bad thing.


----------



## ManBearPig

Will these be an upgrade over the mk11 if being used for midbass duty, say from 80-350?


----------



## Electrodynamic

SkizeR said:


> Are those nearfield measurements?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


The frequency response measurements are from Warkwyn, the official Klippel USA respresentative. Click this text for a link to their web page although I assume you are a frequent visitor to their page for Klippel information from the posts you have made in the past.


----------



## Electrodynamic

rob feature said:


> Yip - overlaid on the same graph if possible. That & the parameter set is all I ever ask, but more information is never a bad thing.


Sure thing, my appologies for not posting the Klippel-verified T/S parameters:

Re: 3.38 Ohm
Le: 0.112 mH
R2: 1.06 Ohm
Cmes: 542.52 uF
Lces: 4.77 mH
Res: 10.53 Ohm
Fs: 98.9 Hz
Mms: 19.778 g
Mmd (Sd): 17.907 g
Rms: 3.461 kg/s
Cms: 0.131 mm/N
Kms: 7.64 N/mm
Bl: 6.038 N/A
Qms: 3.551
Qes: 1.140
Qts: 0.863
Vas: 3.630 Liters
n0: 0.296%
Lnom: 87.64 dB nominal sensitivity(SPL at 1m for 1W @Zn)


----------



## Electrodynamic

ManBearPig said:


> Will these be an upgrade over the mk11 if being used for midbass duty, say from 80-350?


We had the same question from a long-term client recently and the answer is the low-end will be increased from the mkII to the new mkIII. You will get the same "small subwoofer" feel from the new mkIII version as you did with the mkII version but the new mkIII will have substantially improved upper frequency response compared to the previous version making it much more flexilble in any system (2-way, 3-way, 4-way, etc). And with the increased sensitivity that the new version carries you will get more output overall with the new version.


----------



## rob feature

Electrodynamic said:


> Sure thing, my appologies for not posting the Klippel-verified T/S parameters:
> 
> Re: 3.38 Ohm
> Le: 0.112 mH
> R2: 1.06 Ohm
> Cmes: 542.52 uF
> Lces: 4.77 mH
> Res: 10.53 Ohm
> Fs: 98.9 Hz
> Mms: 19.778 g
> Mmd (Sd): 17.907 g
> Rms: 3.461 kg/s
> Cms: 0.131 mm/N
> Kms: 7.64 N/mm
> Bl: 6.038 N/A
> Qms: 3.551
> Qes: 1.140
> Qts: 0.863
> Vas: 3.630 Liters
> n0: 0.296%
> Lnom: 87.64 dB nominal sensitivity(SPL at 1m for 1W @Zn)


:thumbsup:


----------



## rton20s

Electrodynamic said:


> The frequency response measurements are from Warkwyn, the official Klippel USA respresentative. Click this text for a link to their web page although I assume you are a frequent visitor to their page for Klippel information from the posts you have made in the past.


----------



## Gump_Runner

Wasn't the mki 199.00 or am I thinking of a different driver?


----------



## Niebur3

Electrodynamic said:


> The frequency response measurements are from Warkwyn, the official Klippel USA respresentative. Click this text for a link to their web page although I assume you are a frequent visitor to their page for Klippel information from the posts you have made in the past.


Any Off-Axis Measurements? Not many (if any) of us using 6.5" speakers on-axis. 

Also, the FS and QTS seems a bit high for a Midbass supposed to play low.


----------



## Holmz

Niebur3 said:


> Any Off-Axis Measurements? Not many (if any) of us using 6.5" speakers on-axis.
> 
> Also, the FS and QTS seems a bit high for a Midbass supposed to play low.


Anyone without kick panels using a dashboard install would have a windshield bounce which is effectively on-axis.

Of course the off-axis probably "combs" together with the on-axis to produce nulls and peaks... but is also likely similar to any other 6.5" if the physics is the same?


----------



## Niebur3

Holmz said:


> Anyone without kick panels using a dashboard install would have a windshield bounce which is effectively on-axis.
> 
> Of course the off-axis probably "combs" together with the on-axis to produce nulls and peaks... but is also likely similar to any other 6.5" if the physics is the same?


Most 6.5" are mounted in doors and not anywhere close to the windshield and not anywhere close to on axis.


----------



## Holmz

Niebur3 said:


> Most 6.5" are mounted in doors and not anywhere close to the windshield and not anywhere close to on axis.


Correct, but in response to the following post I said anyone (blah blah blah)...



Niebur3 said:


> ...Not many (if any) of us using 6.5" speakers on-axis...


There is at least one person on the forum with doors that are thin enough to not make a kick panel install feasible and they're mounting the woofer in the dash.

I agree that 1 is a small group, and an outlier from the norm... however even then I pointed out that the off-axis performance may still be worth having.


----------



## Electrodynamic

On-axis, 15 degrees off-axis, and 30 degrees off-axis. Measured with LMS meaning 200 to 20kHz is at 1 meter 2.83 Volts, and the 20 to 200 is close mic’d at 2.83 Volts. Then the two curves are spliced together. If interested in digging further look up papers written by Don Keele on the subject.


----------



## instalher

will these work in tiny sealed boxes.. I remade the 8 inch boxes under the seats of my f30 bmw to be a sealed box. .20ft for a 6.5 inch driver,, couldn't find an 8 to give me decent midbass, please advise


----------



## fastlane

Electrodynamic said:


> We had the same question from a long-term client recently and the answer is the low-end will be increased from the mkII to the new mkIII. You will get the same "small subwoofer" feel from the new mkIII version as you did with the mkII version but the new mkIII will have substantially improved upper frequency response compared to the previous version making it much more flexilble in any system (2-way, 3-way, 4-way, etc). And with the increased sensitivity that the new version carries you will get more output overall with the new version.


Not what I wanted to hear seeing as I just purchased a set of MKII's for a current 2 way install.


----------



## dcfis

Electrodynamic said:


> On-axis, 15 degrees off-axis, and 30 degrees off-axis. Measured with LMS meaning 200 to 20kHz is at 1 meter 2.83 Volts, and the 20 to 200 is close mic’d at 2.83 Volts. Then the two curves are spliced together. If interested in digging further look up papers written by Don Keele on the subject.


Bravo! Why on earth wouldnt you want to market that? I know im pushing was there a 60 degree too?


----------



## disconnected

Fs: 98.9 Hz is my concern for the Mkiii

I am running the Mkii on a Mosconi AS 200.4
I went from 75 watts to 200 watts.
The midbass opened up nicely.
The Helix crosses them over from 60hz @ 24db/octave high pass and 2.2khz @ 24db/octave low pass.


----------



## Electrodynamic

disconnected said:


> Fs: 98.9 Hz is my concern for the Mkiii
> 
> I am running the Mkii on a Mosconi AS 200.4
> I went from 75 watts to 200 watts.
> The midbass opened up nicely.
> The Helix crosses them over from 60hz @ 24db/octave high pass and 2.2khz @ 24db/octave low pass.


You need to look at all of the T/S parameters, not just one parameter. Model them both up in the same size sealed enclosures (a car door is a big sealed box simulated) and the F3's are almost exactly the same, meaning you will get the same midbass/bass presence with the new mkIII as you get with the previous mkII. Only this time you get increased sensitivity (output).


----------



## Electrodynamic

dcfis said:


> Bravo! Why on earth wouldnt you want to market that? I know im pushing was there a 60 degree too?


We at least published some/any off-axis response plots which is 2x more than the closest legit competitor so technically we publish twice the data, haha. 

Relax people, it was a tongue-in-cheek joke. Woosah.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Anyone get the T/S specs to work correctly in WinISD? I'm getting an "out of bounds" error for the specs provided when I try to create a new project.


----------



## Dan750iL

GreatLaBroski said:


> Anyone get the T/S specs to work correctly in WinISD? I'm getting an "out of bounds" error for the specs provided when I try to create a new project.


You have to choose an alignment. If you are going with sealed the dropdown is blank but if you click it other options are there.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Dan750iL said:


> GreatLaBroski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone get the T/S specs to work correctly in WinISD? I'm getting an "out of bounds" error for the specs provided when I try to create a new project.
> 
> 
> 
> You have to choose an alignment. If you are going with sealed the dropdown is blank but if you click it other options are there.
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s my issue, WinISD is treating the specs as invalid and cannot model the sealed alignment. This is the first time I’ve gotten this error with modeling dozens of drivers. I’m just curious if anyone else is having this issue or has a fix.


----------



## ManBearPig

instalher said:


> will these work in tiny sealed boxes.. I remade the 8 inch boxes under the seats of my f30 bmw to be a sealed box. .20ft for a 6.5 inch driver,, couldn't find an 8 to give me decent midbass, please advise


I am also curious about this


----------



## rton20s

GreatLaBroski said:


> Yeah that’s my issue, WinISD is treating the specs as invalid and cannot model the sealed alignment. This is the first time I’ve gotten this error with modeling dozens of drivers. I’m just curious if anyone else is having this issue or has a fix.


No problems for me. They modeled just fine. 

TM65 MkI vs MkII vs MkIII in 2.0CF with 120W & 60Hz LR4 HPF. 









I'll let you all decide which is which.


----------



## Dan750iL

GreatLaBroski said:


> Yeah that’s my issue, WinISD is treating the specs as invalid and cannot model the sealed alignment. This is the first time I’ve gotten this error with modeling dozens of drivers. I’m just curious if anyone else is having this issue or has a fix.


In case I wasn't clear...

If you leave it like this you get the Out of bounds error.









You need to select an alignment for it to work.


----------



## Electrodynamic

rton20s said:


> No problems for me. They modeled just fine.
> 
> TM65 MkI vs MkII vs MkIII in 2.0CF with 120W & 60Hz LR4 HPF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll let you all decide which is which.


Nice simulation. FWIW the differences in Le are differences in Jazzi's measurements of the mkII vs. the new mkIII measured by Warkwyn (Klippel of North America). Both the mkII and the mkIII have the exact same coil in the exact same motor so Le should be the same but they did not measure exactly the same. Altitude, ground plane / not ground plane, etc, have an effect but we just wanted to point out the measurement differences with the exact same motor/coil/inductance treatments.


----------



## seafish

rton20s said:


> No problems for me. They modeled just fine.
> 
> TM65 MkI vs MkII vs MkIII in 2.0CF with 120W & 60Hz LR4 HPF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll let you all decide which is which.


YELLOW = MkI
RED = MkII
ORANGE = MkIII


----------



## rton20s

Electrodynamic said:


> Nice simulation. FWIW the differences in Le are differences in Jazzi's measurements of the mkII vs. the new mkIII measured by Warkwyn (Klippel of North America). Both the mkII and the mkIII have the exact same coil in the exact same motor so Le should be the same but they did not measure exactly the same. Altitude, ground plane / not ground plane, etc, have an effect but we just wanted to point out the measurement differences with the exact same motor/coil/inductance treatments.


Interesting. For reference though, none of the T/S parameters I used (including Le) came from Justin's testing. Well, unless that is what you use on your website. I double checked today, and all of the T/S parameters I have input have come directly from the SI website or one of your posts providing the data. Regardless, both of the MkII and MkII appear to easily have low enough Le to be used in a two way configuration as well as the FR graphs to back that up.


----------



## rton20s

seafish said:


> YELLOW = MkI
> RED = MkII
> ORANGE = MkIII


Nope.


----------



## Dan750iL

Yellow MKI
Orange MKII
Red MKIII


----------



## rton20s

Dan750iL said:


> Yellow MKI
> Orange MKII
> Red MKIII


Maybe.


----------



## Vividi#12

Can the Mkii play up to 2500 Hz without problems or should I search another driver?


----------



## seafish

rton20s said:


> Nope.


Either I am colorblind or I am missing something here...

ALL the claims about the TM65mk3 in this thread is that they have a better high end response then the mk2 making them easier to mate with a tweeter in a 2 way system.

Clearly the orange line, which you are saying "maybe" represents the modeled FR of the Mk2, has a MUCH more extended high end response then the red, which you are "maybe" saying represents the modeled FR of the mk3. 

Can someone clarify this for me??


----------



## seafish

seafish said:


> YELLOW = MkI
> RED = MkII
> ORANGE = MkIII





rton20s said:


> Nope.



Either I am colorblind or I am missing something here...

ALL the claims about the TM65mk3 in this thread is that they have a better high end response then the mk2 making them easier to mate with a tweeter in a 2 way system.

Clearly the orange line, which you are saying "maybe" represents the modeled FR of the Mk2, has a more extended high end response then the red, which you are "maybe" saying represents the modeled FR of the mk3.


Can someone clarify this for me??


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Dan750iL said:


> In case I wasn't clear...
> 
> If you leave it like this you get the Out of bounds error.
> 
> You need to select an alignment for it to work.


Thanks for the pics, I see that I'm not doing anything wrong and that my WinISD is behaving as expected. Anyone know why this driver doesn't have the usual closed-box "0.707 Max flat amplitude response" available? I've haven't seen this behavior from other drivers in WinISD.


----------



## Dan750iL

GreatLaBroski said:


> Thanks for the pics, I see that I'm not doing anything wrong and that my WinISD is behaving as expected. Anyone know why this driver doesn't have the usual closed-box "0.707 Max flat amplitude response" available? I've haven't seen this behavior from other drivers in WinISD.


It has to do with one of the T/S parameters being too high. Can't remember which one but I'm sure we'll get help on that. Basically it isn't capable of a .707 response in a box. At least not without help from an EQ. Tweak the box size in WinIsd to see what I mean.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Dan750iL said:


> It has to do with one of the T/S parameters being too high. Can't remember which one but I'm sure we'll get help on that. Basically it isn't capable of a .707 response in a box. At least not without help from an EQ. Tweak the box size in WinIsd to see what I mean.


Ahh, yeah these speakers have a QTS of 0.863. That'll do it. Thanks!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Dan750iL said:


> It has to do with one of the T/S parameters being too high. Can't remember which one but I'm sure we'll get help on that. Basically it isn't capable of a .707 response in a box. At least not without help from an EQ. Tweak the box size in WinIsd to see what I mean.


If a loudspeaker has a Qts higher than 0.707 you can not put it in an enclosure that will bring the Qe/Qt down below a 0.707. The TM65 mkII and mkIII drivers are not designed for small sealed box operation as their intended use is in a car door.


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## Electrodynamic

seafish said:


> Either I am colorblind or I am missing something here...
> 
> ALL the claims about the TM65mk3 in this thread is that they have a better high end response then the mk2 making them easier to mate with a tweeter in a 2 way system.
> 
> Clearly the orange line, which you are saying "maybe" represents the modeled FR of the Mk2, has a MUCH more extended high end response then the red, which you are "maybe" saying represents the modeled FR of the mk3.
> 
> Can someone clarify this for me??


Instead of looking at simulations trying to guess which colored line is which driver here are the Klippel frequency response measurements of both drivers (the TM65 mkII and then the TM65 mkIII that is still being mentioned in this mkII thread):

TM65 mkII with poly cone:










TM65 mkIII with carbon fiber cone:


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## rton20s

seafish said:


> Either I am colorblind or I am missing something here...
> 
> ALL the claims about the TM65mk3 in this thread is that they have a better high end response then the mk2 making them easier to mate with a tweeter in a 2 way system.
> 
> Clearly the orange line, which you are saying "maybe" represents the modeled FR of the Mk2, has a more extended high end response then the red, which you are "maybe" saying represents the modeled FR of the mk3.
> 
> 
> Can someone clarify this for me??


Keep in mind that what you are looking at here is the simulated/modeled response of a driver in WinISD. These are not frequency response graphs. The roll off you are seeing on the top end is based on inductance of the drivers. Inductance helps to define (to some degree) the roll off up top similar to how Qts/Qtc define the roll off of the driver on the bottom.

In the case of the TM65, the figures that I have from Stereo Integrity are as follows, MkI: 0.82 mH, MkII: 0.03 mH, MkII: 0.11 mH. This is why you see the MkIII rolling off sooner in the model than the MkII. However, there is A LOT more to a driver than what you can see in a simple model like this. My understanding is that Nick spent a lot of time working on improvements to the cone and the suspension to help with linearity over stroke (to match the capability of the motor) and better behavior on the top end. I am sure he will correct anything that I have wrong. 

Finally, don't think for a second that an inductance of 0.11 mH is bad. For reference, the Scanspeak Elipticor 18WE is 0.1 mH, the Illuminator 18WU is 0.5 mH and the Audiofrog GB60 is 0.13 mH. The MkIII, at least in terms of inductance, is in good company. 



GreatLaBroski said:


> Thanks for the pics, I see that I'm not doing anything wrong and that my WinISD is behaving as expected. Anyone know why this driver doesn't have the usual closed-box "0.707 Max flat amplitude response" available? I've haven't seen this behavior from other drivers in WinISD.


A Qtc of 0.707 is not available from WinISD if the Qts of the driver is already higher than that. You can't really get a driver to have a lower Qt in an enclosure than it will have free air. In the MkIIIs case, the Qts is 0.862. In a typical door install it will bump the Qtc up a bit to just shy of 0.9.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed this whole last page including Nick's responses.


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## Bnlcmbcar

Anyone have a link for the mkIII preorder yet?


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## 18inch

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Anyone have a link for the mkIII preorder yet?


TM65 mkIII Woofer | Stereo Integrity


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## Bnlcmbcar

Thanks already ordered me a pair! Link wasn’t active until a couple days after the advertised date.


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## Alrojoca

I noticed these have push on speaker terminals, the problem with these is the connectors are conductive, the push on part and the part that has the wire both are connected and conductive.

If these touch the door metal, they will short. Any way to solve the issue? , I know using the ring spacer will keep them far from the door but still water or just plain conductive exposure is ive inevitable.

Maybe some rubber boots any ideas or shared experiences will help


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## seafish

Alrojoca said:


> I noticed these have push on speaker terminals, the problem with these is the connectors are conductive, the push on part and the part that has the wire both are connected and conductive.
> 
> If these touch the door metal, they will short. Any way to solve the issue? , I know using the ring spacer will keep them far from the door but still water or just plain conductive exposure is ive inevitable.
> 
> Maybe some rubber boots any ideas or shared experiences will help


Not sure that this is a huge issue or anything, but seems like it is nothing that two pieces of red and black shrink tube wouldn't easily fix!!!


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## rton20s

seafish said:


> Not sure that this is a huge issue or anything, but seems like it is nothing that two pieces of red and black shrink tube wouldn't easily fix!!!


I had the same exact thought. IF you even need a fix. My Illusion Audio C6s have similar large push terminals (different orientation) and I've never had any issues.


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## Theslaking

seafish said:


> Not sure that this is a huge issue or anything, but seems like it is nothing that two pieces of red and black shrink tube wouldn't easily fix!!!


They even have heat shrink caps. Similar to tubing but a solid end.


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## Bnlcmbcar

Has anyone put FAST Ring foam behind their TM65’s?

I’m mounting a pair on my rear deck shelf and was going to place FAST ring foam behind it as depicted in my attached photos.

More so interested in using them for cosmetic and protective purposes but not sure how it will alter the woofer performance. 

One piece of the foam would be flush against the back of the magnet. And a larger diameter ring would close the gap/difference to the underside of the rear deck.

Nick mentioned that the fast rings may choke the driver a little bit (less output in the lower octaves) but they will help with excursion by limiting the amount of air that the back of the drivers see. 

Just wanted to see if anyone has firsthand experience. I can’t experiement yet, I’m waiting for some mounting screws from Nick.


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## Alrojoca

seafish said:


> Not sure that this is a huge issue or anything, but seems like it is nothing that two pieces of red and black shrink tube wouldn't easily fix!!!


Ok thanks, maybe I'm too Paranoid to leave them exposed even if nothing will touch them. 
They are big.


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## Alrojoca

After checking clearance, I'll leave it alone. Maybe if I have time in a few months I will use an industrial plastic sealer to seal one end of end of a HS piece and just use it as a cap cover. 

It would crazy to get a heat gun too close and risk melting or overheating the cone.

Another thing, the car where these were installed had spade connectors, I had to make a special male spade crimped to a very short wire to make an adapter.

I debated thin solder on the ends for the wires, but I just went bare for the copper wire inside the speaker terminal.


Nice sounding mid bass for now crossed at 70- 2.4 kHz being paired with nvx x series tweeters crossed at 2.5khz


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