# Chinese Android head units sound quality.



## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

I've got a 2007 Ford Focus that has this shape head unit in it......










I'm building a sound quality (ish) system in the car using a 4 channel Kicker amp,Mini DSP Nano digi,full range speakers and door mounted bass speakers without a sub.
I really like the look of the stock head unit but it doesn't have a dedicated full range pre-amp level output and I don't really want to use speaker outputs.So the choice is either an aftermarket deck such as the Alpine or Pioneer single DIN units I already have,but I don't really want this unless there's no other choice as they look too out of place for my liking.
The other option is one of the ever growing number of custom fit Chinese Android head units.I love the functionality of them,but I'm concerned about the large number of comments regarding their poor sound quality.
I've had a quick look and can't find anyone who's tried using one in any system other than a plug-and-play with the stock speakers.What is the nature of this poor sound quality,and can it be corrected with a DSP such as mine,or has it been ruined way back inside and is now past correction by simple electronic means?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I have no experience with Android headunits but I can tell you what a dsp can and can't do. It can correct electrical frequency response, add time delay, and active crossover filters. It can NOT correct a signal with a poor noise floor, a low dynamic range, or poor stereo separation from a low quality source.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

How are you using the nano digi? How are you feeding it


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

dcfis said:


> How are you using the nano digi? How are you feeding it


With a reasonably cheap analogue to digital convertor,optical or coaxial into the Nano.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

And how are you going to decode the spdif outputs for your amps?


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

dcfis said:


> And how are you going to decode the spdif outputs for your amps?


Fiio Taishan DACs.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

So I got one last year. I will never go back to the crap rectangles that don't integrate like alpine,clarion, pioneer. This was in a venza and it looks like stock, works like stock and is a direct plug in and everything works (of course I had the basic crap stereo)

However the sound truly is terrible. Like unlistenable, so I tried to return it but couldn't because return shipping to china is the price of the unit itself. Something to consider for sure...

So I had to find what was happening, in my case it's one of the stock applications called magic EQ that is for lack of other words, broken... Luckily not all apps use magic EQ, this is how I figured out it was the culprit. CD\DVD's sounded great, so did the radio, most music apps and anything going through Bluetooth sounded like garbage.

I found a music app that has it's own EQ and bypasses the system Eq (magic EQ) called poweramp (I'm sure there are more that do this too).

So it's a work around, I can't stream music from my phone (I never do anyways so I'm fine there). 

But when I turn on wifi I can get google maps with traffic on the big screen, Netflix, play games, it can do lots of things. I love it.

If I had to do it over again I would by a brand name no name brand hehe... Mine literally has no brand BUT some of the nonames out there have names and a big following on the android forums (xda). Those brands are joying and witson (or something like that).

I would make sure to get one of those as they often get updates and are more likely to work well. the one I chose was the cheapest of the cheep with strong internals for fast power on.

My biggest concern was getting a unit that powers on quickly to play music... I hate how the established units with GPS take 10 - 15 seconds to power on and play.... mine takes 5 seconds or less to start music. A few moments to start up a GPS... also easy to get offline maps for free from the android store like HERE we go maps. Mine comes with GIO world maps and it's pretty solid actually although I don't know how I'd get updates for it.

Android can work with usb DAC's and people use them to try and get better SQ, but you run into problems of sound outputs don't match up... so music might go through the DAC but bluetooth won't.... so it's a concern.

IMO the SQ of mine when magic EQ is bypassed is really good, I'm completely content, it works great.


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## -Kyle- (Feb 5, 2009)

AAAAAAA said:


> So I got one last year. I will never go back to the crap rectangles that don't integrate like alpine,clarion, pioneer. This was in a venza and it looks like stock, works like stock and is a direct plug in and everything works (of course I had the basic crap stereo)
> 
> However the sound truly is terrible. Like unlistenable, so I tried to return it but couldn't because return shipping to china is the price of the unit itself. Something to consider for sure...
> 
> ...


Question for you or anyone else out there, does it integrate with the vehicle from a usage standpoint? I have 3 USB outlets that I can plug a music loaded flash drive into OR my iPhone and make calls, etc through the stereo. Are these features retained?


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

AAAAAAA said:


> So I got one last year. I will never go back to the crap rectangles that don't integrate like alpine,clarion, pioneer. This was in a venza and it looks like stock, works like stock and is a direct plug in and everything works (of course I had the basic crap stereo)
> 
> However the sound truly is terrible. Like unlistenable, so I tried to return it but couldn't because return shipping to china is the price of the unit itself. Something to consider for sure...
> 
> ...


Thank you,just the sort of answer I was looking for!

I should have said in my first post that it'll mainly be used for listening to music from a USB flash drive.Bluetooth was never designed as a hi-fi format,so I would never use it as such or expect really high quality audio from the older versions of it.

Are you using uprated and/or amped up speakers,or just the stockers?If uprated are you happy with the sound quality from them compared to the crap rectangles as a source?


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

-Kyle- said:


> Question for you or anyone else out there, does it integrate with the vehicle from a usage standpoint? I have 3 USB outlets that I can plug a music loaded flash drive into OR my iPhone and make calls, etc through the stereo. Are these features retained?


Come to think of it, it integrated with the steering wheel and other things but the stock usb cable no longer works. 

My particular unit came with 2 usb outputs that can be router anywhere and spliced into stock locations but that would need work.

Also to consider, if you already have an upgraded stock stereo it might be more complicated to integrate with these android boxes, I know that all the ones I was looking at would only work with the non JBL system. Presumably because it has a center channel and many more outputs and a sub.

If you have the basic stereo then it is more likely to go in plug and play.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Imagewerx said:


> Thank you,just the sort of answer I was looking for!
> 
> I should have said in my first post that it'll mainly be used for listening to music from a USB flash drive.Bluetooth was never designed as a hi-fi format,so I would never use it as such or expect really high quality audio from the older versions of it.
> 
> Are you using uprated and/or amped up speakers,or just the stockers?If uprated are you happy with the sound quality from them compared to the crap rectangles as a source?


I have put amplifiers and a sub in but I am waiting on new speakers to get shipped. SO half way there... 

Since it's still stock speakers the sound is still pretty similar all be it louder now.

It's no worst then stock in terms of SQ for me. It's quiet, low noise floor. But there are so many models out there... make sure to stick with joying would be my recommendation.


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

AAAAAAA said:


> I have put amplifiers and a sub in but I am waiting on new speakers to get shipped. SO half way there...
> 
> Since it's still stock speakers the sound is still pretty similar all be it louder now.
> 
> It's no worst then stock in terms of SQ for me. It's quiet, low noise floor. But there are so many models out there... make sure to stick with joying would be my recommendation.


Thank you! As long as I try a Joying which can be bought over here as a custom fit for my car for about £200 I should be ok and it's not a lot of money wasted if I sell it afterwards for half that.
Am I right in thinking it's possible to get a digital output from an Android out of one of the USBs using a simple app?


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I wouldn't bet on an app sending signal to a usb output... 

I have seen some with optical out though... it might be worth trying it out even if it's not joying branded. I'd probably risk it if digi out was important to me.


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

AAAAAAA said:


> I wouldn't bet on an app sending signal to a usb output...
> 
> I have seen some with optical out though... it might be worth trying it out even if it's not joying branded. I'd probably risk it if digi out was important to me.


But don't they only do digital out from the CD deck with no volume control?


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## -Kyle- (Feb 5, 2009)

AAAAAAA said:


> Come to think of it, it integrated with the steering wheel and other things but the stock usb cable no longer works.
> 
> My particular unit came with 2 usb outputs that can be router anywhere and spliced into stock locations but that would need work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I have a non-nav double din in my Escape which doesn't do much well, really wishing I could use Waze. But worried about losing my USB plugs, steering controls, iphone carplay access, etc. I do have center channel but I'm going to be using an MS-8 anyway. SO trying to decide on if I should upgrade my source or if its worth it


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Imagewerx said:


> But don't they only do digital out from the CD deck with no volume control?


I have no idea, you could ask the seller if you find one with optical out.



-Kyle- said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have a non-nav double din in my Escape which doesn't do much well, really wishing I could use Waze. But worried about losing my USB plugs, steering controls, iphone carplay access, etc. I do have center channel but I'm going to be using an MS-8 anyway. SO trying to decide on if I should upgrade my source or if its worth it


Do you have synch? Might be hard finding a Chinese unit that fits into your setup... Maybe just getting a dash phone dock for your waze. For some reason making a hotspot with my phone for the headunit to get internet from isn't super reliable. Especially if I automate my phone to turn on hotspot when connected to my HU... makes my phone reboot for whatever reason.
Also in my case it has mirror link for connecting with phones..instead of android auto. It hasn't worked on 2 different phones. 
I'd make sure with the seller that it will work with your model before buying it... or be ready to loose functionality.


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## audiodelic (Jul 23, 2017)

I recently bought a joying vw android head unit, I plan to use it with a hifimediy converter from USB to optical digital to feed cdsp 8x12. 

Has anyone tried this, somewhere I read only limited apps will work, will stuff like SoundCloud , Spotify work over USB dac.


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## BrainMach1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I have been debating trying an android unit but am concerned about the reliability of these and their support. 

One option I have pondered is buying Amazon warranty. If looking at an android unit, that would be my path. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

audiodelic said:


> I recently bought a joying vw android head unit, I plan to use it with a hifimediy converter from USB to optical digital to feed cdsp 8x12.
> 
> Has anyone tried this, somewhere I read only limited apps will work, will stuff like SoundCloud , Spotify work over USB dac.


Don't know. Keep this app in your back pocket as it might help with routing, that's what it does...although your HU might need to be rooted

soundabout 
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerMH21srWAhUBGmMKHaZWDBUQFggmMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.woodslink.android.wiredheadphoneroutingfix%26hl%3Den&usg=AOvVaw1EZgwiWyRdZsjsxYggPFae


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Also make sure to look at the specs, make sure to get at least 1GB or RAM (Ideally 2 or more). Ask the seller how long until music starts playing .... Should be 3 to 5 seconds when minimal apps are loaded.

Mine is 1GB, quad core and is fast enough. A lot of these boxes claim to have android 5, 6 ,7.... pretty sure they are all running 4.x though. too bad. Try and get one that has the latest android... it might not end up being that newer version but if it is, bonus.


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

Truthunter said:


> I have no experience with Android headunits but I can tell you what a dsp can and can't do. It can correct electrical frequency response, add time delay, and active crossover filters. It can NOT correct a signal with a poor noise floor, a low dynamic range, or poor stereo separation from a low quality source.


unless it's digital audio through usb...


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

I got this one in the end......










This one in particular because it's got an HDMI output that I can convert to optical to drive my DSP.

Just using the built in amplifier and stock Ford speakers for now it sounds better than I was expecting.The rest of the build is coming alaong slowly but should be in and finished in a couple of weeks.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

where did you get it from ?


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

Android can send Digital audio throug USB, and MiniDsp 2x4HD can stream USB audio... 

Someday I will make a setup with an Android Tablet (last Acer's tablets have 2 usb ports, one can be used for charge and the other for data) and that dsp.


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

quickaudi07 said:


> where did you get it from ?



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172853379307


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

ANDRESVELASCO said:


> Android can send Digital audio throug USB, and MiniDsp 2x4HD can stream USB audio...
> 
> Someday I will make a setup with an Android Tablet (last Acer's tablets have 2 usb ports, one can be used for charge and the other for data) and that dsp.


Tablets make no sense when these head units are available IMO


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm waiting for a joying that has decent ram, and a optical output. I'd be all over it.


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

AAAAAAA said:


> Tablets make no sense when these head units are available IMO


Two or three years ago I would have argued against this statement.I went down the tablet-as-a-music-source-in-my-car route and learned a LOT by doing it.One of the things I learned was that it was whole lot of effort for very little return.I had a sort of unique installation that earned me scene points when people saw it,but at the end of the day it was just a portable computer made to fit into a car used just as a music player.
I thought I wouldn't miss the utter simplicity of a radio plugged into an aerial on the roof of my car ready to go at a seconds notice as I didn't listen to the radio all that much anyway.But of course as soon as I didn't have it I realised that I really did miss having it there when I ran out of things to listen to of my own.
I'm much happier with this Android head unit,it does everything the tablet did and a hell of a lot more,it looks as if it was made for the car and wasn't an afterthought,and it's got a warranty on it should anything go wrong with it.
What more could I ask for?


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

I checked out the joying line. The price is amazing, I think I found my next head unit 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

Imagewerx said:


> Two or three years ago I would have argued against this statement.I went down the tablet-as-a-music-source-in-my-car route and learned a LOT by doing it.One of the things I learned was that it was whole lot of effort for very little return.I had a sort of unique installation that earned me scene points when people saw it,but at the end of the day it was just a portable computer made to fit into a car used just as a music player.
> I thought I wouldn't miss the utter simplicity of a radio plugged into an aerial on the roof of my car ready to go at a seconds notice as I didn't listen to the radio all that much anyway.But of course as soon as I didn't have it I realised that I really did miss having it there when I ran out of things to listen to of my own.
> I'm much happier with this Android head unit,it does everything the tablet did and a hell of a lot more,it looks as if it was made for the car and wasn't an afterthought,and it's got a warranty on it should anything go wrong with it.
> What more could I ask for?


My very only concern is about usb audio output capability.

Do those Android Head units can do that? Have you tried this?


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

ANDRESVELASCO said:


> My very only concern is about usb audio output capability.
> 
> Do those Android Head units can do that? Have you tried this?


I'm using one of these to hopefully convert HDMI to an optical audio signal........

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00H8T1DJ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## sobe_death (Jul 31, 2008)

Imagewerx said:


> I'm using one of these to hopefully convert HDMI to an optical audio signal........
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00H8T1DJ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Have you had a chance to try the HDMI converter?


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

sobe_death said:


> Have you had a chance to try the HDMI converter?


Yes,but only for about five minutes.It works,but I should have remembered that an HDMI output from a unit like this would have a volume level that's independent of the head unit and is always on full,as the accessories (head rest screens etc) would have their own volume controls.
In that case I need to get a master volume control working for my DSP before I can use it properly in my car.It's infra red only with my unit,but I'm having real trouble getting it to learn the correct commands with the Arduino I need to use with it.


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

For anyone still interested,a quick update of how this is going.

The original headunit was in use for about a month when it the middle of nowhere it shut down and went into a continuous boot loop that it wouldn't get out of even by pushing the reset button.
I sent it back and got a full refund and replaced it with a very similar Xtrons unit.It's almost the same,a few buttons have different functions and the user interface is slightly different,but apart from that it looks to have exactly the same chassis as the first one,and it was about £50 cheaper!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Android-7-1-HDMI-GPS-Sat-Nav-Car-CD-DVD-Player-DAB-Radio-for-Ford-Mondeo-Focus/172845548888?epid=2215328141&hash=item283e65c558:g:y8sAAOSwDRxZp3hq

Connected up the amp at the weekend and had it running straight out of the headunit using just the amp's built in crossovers.This kinda worked,but 200 Hz @ 12db/octave high pass there was still too much bass going through the full rangers.So tried it with the Mini DSP Nano digi (head unit analogue RCA > cheapo analogue to digital convertor > Mini DSP > Fiio DACs > Kicker amp) and it worked,but with alternator whine from hell caused by the A to D convertor (it was less than £10 and not really designed for in-car use so I can't really complain).With the full rangers high passed at 300 Hz @ 48db/octave it did sound quite nice,but was only usable with the engine not running.
Next I tried the HDMI to optical convertor and it sounded bloody amazing!!!!! There was absolutely no noise at all,engine on or off,and even paused and on full volume I couldn't hear any hiss at all!
The problem with HDMI is it's fixed on full volume and doesn't put normal radio audio through it,but oddly enough it does put sat nav audio through it which I think is a bit strange.I have managed to get the master volume control of the DSP working by cloning a known working I/R remote with an Arduino and connecting it up to my OEM steering wheel controls.
So I've got two options now.I can try to get rid of the noise from the A to D convertor with either an isolated power supply and/or a high quality ground loop isolator (which I really hate for what they do to sound quality),or I could use a better quality A to D convertor that has better built in noise immunity.
Or I could go with the HDMI option which really does sound amazing for such a cheap source unit,the signal is clean flat audio without any sort of processing on it,and I would imagine is digital all the way from the storage medium.
So I either need to find one of these Android apps that lets me route audio from the functions I need to HDMI.I looked at the SoundAbout app but haven't tried installing it so am not really sure if this will do what I need it to as I don't think 'media audio' covers internal sources such as analogue radio.
Or maybe an external DAB tuner would be treated differently to the internal tuner?

Oh and did I remember to mention the 6.5 inch Tangband sub in the glovebox to be done soon?


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## audiodelic (Jul 23, 2017)

Use hdmi of course since you got it working anyway. My joying unit does not have an hdmi output, I’m using usb with hifimediy converter to extract optical digital for Minidsp, usb vs hdmi in terms of jitter, which would be better, I would definitely vote hdmi here, usb is known to be noisy, maybe I need to look for an android hu with hdmi output.

What converter are you using to convert hdmi.. ?


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

audiodelic said:


> Use hdmi of course since you got it working anyway. My joying unit does not have an hdmi output, I’m using usb with hifimediy converter to extract optical digital for Minidsp, usb vs hdmi in terms of jitter, which would be better, I would definitely vote hdmi here, usb is known to be noisy, maybe I need to look for an android hu with hdmi output.
> 
> What converter are you using to convert hdmi.. ?


As below....



Imagewerx said:


> I'm using one of these to hopefully convert HDMI to an optical audio signal........
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00H8T1DJ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## audiodelic (Jul 23, 2017)

Imagewerx said:


> As below....


I wonder if there is one which converts hdmi to toslink or coaxial but does not require power.There are options with usb power, run hdmi till the trunk have a usb power a converter there or somehow provide usb power at the back of the head unit in the centre console.

I am planning on adding an AudioQuest jitterbug to the hifimediy connected via usb to see if it gives me better jitter reduction.

In terms of sq
1st option is native optical output like Sony rsx gs9
2nd option would be hdmi to toslink/coaxial converter 
3rd option would be usb toslink converter with jitterbug to somewhat improve on jitter


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## Imagewerx (Nov 30, 2012)

audiodelic said:


> I wonder if there is one which converts hdmi to toslink or coaxial but does not require power.There are options with usb power, run hdmi till the trunk have a usb power a converter there or somehow provide usb power at the back of the head unit in the centre console.


An HDMI plug has 5 Volts like USB does,but why the need when it's easy enough to make a single 5 Volt regulated supply that will power all 5 Volt units in the car?


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

DeltaB said:


> I'm still enjoying the Pioneer AVIC-8200NEX Android based and it's Wolfson's DACs. Thanks to CanM8 for the Can bus interface, and Axxess ASWC1 for my XJ8. Since the OS is open source through Pioneer's website and AVIC411 for the needed info to work your own magic.


Dude you gotta tell me more about that! The DAC and everything, I was planning on getting a new headunit after CES.


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## DeltaB (Jun 17, 2017)

DeltaB said:


> I'm still enjoying the Pioneer AVIC-8200NEX Android based and it's Wolfson's DACs. Thanks to CanM8 for the Can bus interface, and Axxess ASWC1 for my XJ8. Since the OS is open source through Pioneer's website and AVIC411 for the needed info to work your own magic.





manish said:


> Dude you gotta tell me more about that! The DAC and everything, I was planning on getting a new headunit after CES.


I can only suppose that someone on this site deleted my original post, however, the AVIC-8200NEX is one of Pioneer's Android based navigation units using Igo maps, and is produced in China. (but what isn't these days) It utilizes Wolfson (a division of Cirrus Logic) WM8761 24bit 192kHz DACs for all channels. Cambridge Audio utilizes Wolfson in their products. The feature set for the Pioneer is certainly wide, and can support dual camera setups as well as separate video and audio for rear seat operations.

The open source OS in it's entirety can be downloaded on Pioneer's website for the product, and AVIC411.com is a site devoted to AVIC owners and can assist in the knowledge to deal with the OS, as well as developer info for the Android OS used.

The DSP is an AKM AK7734. The AK7734 is a highly integrated audio digital signal processor with integrated 2ch 24bit ADC and 2ch SRC. It includes internal memories for digital audio processing, that allows surround effect process, time alignment and parametric equalizing. More over, the AK7734 can process both data and filter coefficients as floating point data so that high accuracy IIR/FIR filter performance can be achieved easily. The internal SRC has various sampling rate converting modes, corresponds many sampling rates without changing the DSP operating sampling frequency. The AK7734 can operate a hands-free software by AKM, as well as sound processing, by programs downloaded via the microprocessor interface.

I used this from CANM8 to obtain CAN bus signals to complete the installation. Vehicles supported are on the page provided below;

CANM8 CANNECT NAV


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

So the 4200 nex is inferior then to the avic-8200. Question, does the 8200 have the same dsp features as the prs880? Like dual 13 band eq and time alignment?


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## DeltaB (Jun 17, 2017)

manish said:


> So the 4200 nex is inferior then to the avic-8200. Question, does the 8200 have the same dsp features as the prs880? Like dual 13 band eq and time alignment?


Yes on both questions.


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