# New Home Theater



## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Hi everyone, this is my first foray into the HT section here on DIYMA.

I've had an older Samsung HTIB for awhile now, but I'm giving it to my brother for his new place, and upgrading to new equipment.

I just picked up a Denon AVR-1911 from Crutchfield, hoping to get a lot of use out of it eventually. Right now I'd like to just run a simple 2.1 system, and don't want to spend more than $300-400. I would like to upgrade in stages from there. If it helps, the AVR-1911 is a 90x7 watt receiver.

I like the sound of Polk Audio speakers, and there happens to be a few in my price range - refurb Monitor speakers, and a subwoofer. Is there anything I should be looking at in the same price range? Every audio place I go to they keep trying to upsell me on various other speakers that cost several times that amount.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

how do u feel about doing custom speakers? u would save some money and get great sound.

for example, i would love to build these, i just cant afford them until i finish my truck.
My RS180 MTM Design - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

u can buy all the items to do it including the cabinet, so no building a cabinet. the drivers and cabinet are $250 and the crossover shouldnt cost much and is really easy.

here is another really cheap one (" A pair of them can be built for $125 for drivers and crossover components.")
http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/overnightsensationmtm


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks for the advice, guys. I think eventually I'll build my own speakers (it's on my list of things to do) but time is not my friend at the moment, and I've got health issues to deal with (which are unfortunately the kind that make working on projects difficult). More importantly, the misses would like "decent" sound for now, and it leaves me looking for "good enough" speakers which will become satellites later (or sold on).

Those MTM speakers look right up my alley, though. Probably my main speakers when I'm up to building. It's just frustrating right now...

I like your input, though. I've noticed there's perhaps a couple dozen members who always share advice (y'all included).


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

DO NOT DISCOUNT THIS SPEAKER BECAUSE OF IT'S PRICE!

Amazon.com: Boston Acoustics CS226B Classic Series Single Floorstanding Speaker (Black): Electronics

Boston Acoustics CS 226 (Cherry) Single floor-standing speaker at Crutchfield.com

I demo'd a pair for a couple of weeks when they first came on the market. I have to say they gave my Dyn's a close run for about $1k less money. Very detailed speaker and would dig deeper than the rated 46hz and your sub is going to be crossed down to around 80hz anyway. Black or cherry finish and the full compliment is still available for completing the surround package. You'll just have to shop around for ALL the matching speakers.

Chuck


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Seems like if you are looking to build your own in the future, why not get something simple and cheap now just to get sound in the room: Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Pair 
Those seem to be very well-reviewed for the price....http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20005175-47.html?tag=mncol;1n 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hot-deals/69688-pe-dayton-6-5-bookshelf-speakers-$25-per-pair-free-shipping-over-$49.html


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

stereo_luver said:


> DO NOT DISCOUNT THIS SPEAKER BECAUSE OF IT'S PRICE!
> 
> Amazon.com: Boston Acoustics CS226B Classic Series Single Floorstanding Speaker (Black): Electronics
> 
> ...


That might be a problem, that is, matching the speakers; I know I don't want to color the sound from different speakers, which I understand is way more important than in mobile audio. So...mixing Polks with say, Bostons or Daytons might not be a great idea...is that right?



XtremeRevolution said:


> I can build you a set of the Overnight Sensations MTMs or the Nat P RS180 bookshelf speakers since I'm already building two sets of OSMTMs. I can finish them however you like. MDF with any color and any gloss level, Oak with any color stain, void free birch ply with any stain, you name it. So far I'm building a set of out of birch ply and a set out of MDF. I guarantee you that you will not find anything off a store shelf for the same price I'd charge to build you a set that would come even close.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see a frequency response graph for that speaker. The high sensitivity makes me wonder what kind of crossover they built for it. Most off the shelf speakers use garbage crossovers and Boston Acoustics is no exception.


I'd take you up on that offer, but shipping that size/weight from Illinois to California might be cost prohibitive. It sounds like you know your speaker boxes, though!



94VG30DE said:


> Seems like if you are looking to build your own in the future, why not get something simple and cheap now just to get sound in the room: Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Pair
> Those seem to be very well-reviewed for the price....A $25 speaker an audiophile can love | The Audiophiliac - CNET News
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hot-deals/69688-pe-dayton-6-5-bookshelf-speakers-$25-per-pair-free-shipping-over-$49.html


Hot dog! That is amazingly inexpensive. We might have a winner there - and they can be rotated to rear surround or other duty. Our family room is pre-wired for and cut for four surround speakers and a sub, so wiring it up should be a snap, although if I move the bookshelf speakers to the rear, I'll just fab up some mounts. Or heck, I can put them in the garage for that price.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Cost to ship would be somewhere around $30-$40 from Chicago. Just something to consider.
> 
> Those Dayton bookshelf speakers are neat little cabinets.


I'll keep you in mind. I would rather build myself, but time is sort of a crunch.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'd rather see you build something yourself too. Plus I'm not cheap. The kind of work I do cuts no corners. The set of speakers I've been building for my mom have taken me well over 8 hours now.


No problem. I understand that quality costs money. In fact, it's something I teach the kids along with getting a good deal.

Anyhow, I've pulled the trigger on those Dayton bookshelf units. Thanks again, everyone!


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

I like where this thread is going. Its giving me some insight of what is out there on a budget. I have to say, though, that I've heard some 2.1 systems that sounded so good, they wouldn't need to have anymore added to them. That makes me smile knowing that.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Okay, so a couple of weeks ago, stuff started arriving; the Federal Express, UPS and USPS drivers were coming out to my house in "the sticks" to deliver the budget goodies.

First to arrive was the aforementioned Denon DVR-1911. About the only feature this unit didn't have was connectivity to the network and digital media on network. I will solve this, in the future, by buying a media box (there's quite a few of them out there, Logitech, Western Digital, and a few other manufacturers make something like that).

Next were Nakamichi plug connectors - this was one of the niftier purchases I've made. High quality little pieces, and pretty inexpensive. 

From Parts Express came the Dayton bookshelf speakers, HDMI cables and Acoustic Elegance speaker wire. About half an hour later, I had things all set up. From a very basic standpoint, it sounded "fuller" than my HTIB system, although it wasn't surround sound, so movies didn't have the same depth. Also, missing a center channel, even as mediocre as what I had before, was apparent; there was a void in the sound just sitting on my couch listening that wasn't there before. On pure music, the Daytons were better; again, a much richer sound, and there was more power coming from the Denon amp than the receiver it replaced. Seeing as how my wife and kids listen just as much or more than I do, I asked for their opinion, and they seemed to like the new set up more, but thought it was missing low end (the previous system had a small 6 or 8" sub). They didn't seem the miss the center image, or maybe they didn't care as much; they said so when I asked. My wife did notice when I brought it up.

The Polk subwoofer showed up a couple days ago, but I didn't get a chance to hook it up until today. Obviously a difference, as there was now low end to match. I have the "volume" on the powered sub turned about 1/4 of the way, and the LP Crossover is turned to ~90 Hz. Any more volume and it absolutely overwhelms the Dayton speakers. I played around with the settings on the back of the sub, and also on the receiver itself. That's the nifty thing about home audio, very easy tweaks without running back to the trunk a dozen times. 

When I have more time to listen, and give the speakers time to break in, I'll post more. Thanks again for the suggestions, everyone!


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

If u end up not enjoying the Dayton speakers u could look to use the cabinet and buy new drivers and buy or build a crossover


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Haven't you learned anything from what I've been saying to everyone on here? You can't just build your own crossover, and you certainly can't use a pre-made one. At minimum you need testing equipment (a WT3), the software to model the frequency response of those drivers, and a proposed crossover network, and even then your results will be marginal at best. This kind of thing takes experience. You can't just up and build a new crossover without knowing what you're doing.


what the **** are u talking about. ur the retard who linked complete designs for crossovers that YOU BUILD YOURSELF.

now u CANT BUILD YOUR OWN CROSSOVERS?

make up your mind!


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

I ordered the Dayton B652 mentioned in this thread. They're on bookshelves that are adjacent to the tv/receiver, about 6' apart and 5.5' off the ground. Subwoofer is another 8' away from the receiver, towards the listening area, but may move soon to be adjacent to the listening position. Speaking of the listening position (one of our couches), that is 15' away from the tv/receiver, and about the same distance from the bookshelf speakers.

After some more listening, I'm not missing the center channel as much, but will probably get one to fill things out. I can still hear directionality but that's okay.

The cabinets themselves are pretty well built (one corner appears to have taken some minor damage, I don't know if that was in transit or my clumsy self. Not a big deal, though.

So far, they don't compare to a friend's B&W speakers (nor did I expect them to), but in a simple two-channel setup, they do acquit themselves nicely to a set of Energy speakers I heard recently. Certainly for the price, they are very good. I have an extra set that I'm going to put either in the garage or use with my computer workstation. Once I get them in the their final positions, and depending on whether I install wall speakers, I'll run the Audessy (sp?) auto tune and set up.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

Good call on not getting those boston's mentioned above. My wife has 5-6 sets of those, the old vr40's, 60's & a few other models that I can't remember & they never did anything for me. The low end & even midbass is kinda crappy at best 

Parts Express is about 4 miles from my house, I have been there several times but after listening my money went elsewhere  

If you want excellent speakers that can rival the B&W's (depending on which ones he has) I would look for a old set of Infinity Kappa speakers. The kappa 5.1 & 6.1 could easily be powered by your denon's amp & the 7.1, 8.1 & especially the amp killer 9.1's would almost require a external amp. These are excellent speakers with the old emit tweeters & can be found for $200-1500+ depending on model & all that. I use two pairs of the kappa 8.1's (pd $500 for 1 set & $1000 for the other) & like the articles/reviews state, compete against speakers costing $10,000 new!! Excellent bargain in the home stereo world. I also have the kappa 5.1's that I will use for 7.1 surround or replace my kappa video's (I can't decide) which again are excellent sounding speakers. If I recall I paid $300 ish shipped for my pair of kappa 5.1's.

You can then throw your dayton speakers as rear surround & hear what you are missing with some better speakers up front. 

Just like with car audio I would also suggest if you really want to get into home stereo stuff to buy a external amp for at least your main speakers. Adcom GFA 5500 & GFA555 are two really nice kinda entry level audiophile amp, I hace a GFA-5500 that I used with my old (almost 20yrs old) Denon AVR-3000. My wife has 5 parasound amps which are better quality vs my adcom thus my 5500 gets thrown in the garage  Denon makes awesome stuff...... 

O yea.... all the speakers do not have to have the same tweeters but it's pretty important for the front speakers to all match. So the mains & center channels should be the same.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

XtremeRevolution said:


> How close are they to the TV? You may get better results keeping them at least a foot away from any objects and at least 6" away from the rear wall. Placing them adjacent to any objects effectively enlarges the baffle, which affects your imaging, your sound stage, and your frequency response.
> 
> I wouldn't expect them to compare to any B&W speakers, especially for $35 a pair, but they are worth every dollar.


They are 18" away from the TV, but the back of the speakers is...a bookcase. 
I can move them to the top of the book cases and see how that works. I don't think I'm going to spend the price of one B&W speaker on my entire system. 



Viggen said:


> Good call on not getting those boston's mentioned above. My wife has 5-6 sets of those, the old vr40's, 60's & a few other models that I can't remember & they never did anything for me. The low end & even midbass is kinda crappy at best
> 
> Parts Express is about 4 miles from my house, I have been there several times but after listening my money went elsewhere
> 
> ...


I'm familiar with Infinity's car audio speakers but not so much the home audio equipment. I'd get Adcom external amps if they fell into my budget, but I don't think they will. I'm familiar with them when I worked back at a specialty electronics store. It's also where I picked up an affinity for Denon.

At some point, when I overhaul the system, I'll probably go the tower route and match with a center speaker. Looking over the Dayton center channel, I might pick that up for the time being. These will be a very nice computer workstation system in the future. 

So, Infinity is on my list to check out, I also like Klipsch and Energy to some extent. Back to listening for awhile, will check back in later this week.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I BUILD crossovers myself. Build as in, I buy the parts, mount them to a board, and solder them together. If you actually looked through the dozen or so designs I've posted, I don't DESIGN them myself. The designs are done by people who have several more years of experience than I do and equipment to test each speaker that I only recently purchased two days ago. I'm just following a diagram.


and what did i say???




Cruzer said:


> If u end up not enjoying the Dayton speakers u could look to use the cabinet and buy new drivers and buy or build a crossover



RIGHT THERE CLEAR AS DAY IT SAYS BUILD!!!! not DESIGN!!!!

DUHHHHHHHHH


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Can you guys chillax and/or take it private or something? While I appreciate your input, going back and forth like this isn't productive.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

ReloadedSS said:


> I'm familiar with Infinity's car audio speakers but not so much the home audio equipment. I'd get Adcom external amps if they fell into my budget, but I don't think they will. I'm familiar with them when I worked back at a specialty electronics store. It's also where I picked up an affinity for Denon.
> 
> At some point, when I overhaul the system, I'll probably go the tower route and match with a center speaker. Looking over the Dayton center channel, I might pick that up for the time being. These will be a very nice computer workstation system in the future.
> 
> So, Infinity is on my list to check out, I also like Klipsch and Energy to some extent. Back to listening for awhile, will check back in later this week.


Pre Harmon International is when Infinity made great stuff. There newer home speakers (& some feel car speakers) aren't worth much of anything. Some of their old stuff (early 90's) is still arguably the best speakers to buy money being no object, I can't recall the model but they still go for $50-75K used. Anyways, do try to take a listen to the old Kappa's, they truely are some of the best speaker bargains in home theater or just home music world.

I have zero knowledge on Energy speakers but a few people I know own Klipsch..... 

Check out ebay & infinity kappa..... just to see what they go for

With the Adcom amps..... should be able to find them for $300-450. I paid $500 for mine I think 4 years ago........

I would love to find a pair of 9.1's but they all seem to be out in California & I will not pay $500-1000 just to ship them. Plus, they would kill my parasound amps, need a serious amp to power those bad boys.... dual 12in drivers on each tower


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Viggen said:


> Pre Harmon International is when Infinity made great stuff. There newer home speakers (& some feel car speakers) aren't worth much of anything. Some of their old stuff (early 90's) is still arguably the best speakers to buy money being no object, I can't recall the model but they still go for $50-75K used. Anyways, do try to take a listen to the old Kappa's, they truely are some of the best speaker bargains in home theater or just home music world.
> 
> I have zero knowledge on Energy speakers but a few people I know own Klipsch.....
> 
> ...


Just did some looking around on the bay. I had Infinity Kappa speakers in my car (the green cone ones) that I really liked. I will definitely look into the Adcom amps, and will see if I can find some Infinity towers to audition somewhere around me.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Okay, so about three months in, and it's still working out well. It's not audiophile by any means, but sounds better than my previous HTIB. For the price, the subwoofer has been pleasant, and the speakers have been excellent. Music is nice and clear, not loud necessarily, but it's nowhere near the range of a quality system.

Movies are a bit lacking now that I don't have surround sound, but the sound I do get does come across somewhat clearer. These speakers could still be a very good addition as satellite speakers with more expensive towers. 

The next project is finding a media box to stream movies and music from the home data server, which may require a general upgrade overall.


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## hendel (Feb 4, 2010)

just my 2 cents 
check these out
i have them at home and i am pleasently surprised in their performance 
Jamo S506HCS3 5.0 channel home theater speaker system versatile wall mount capable at Vanns.com


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