# Disappointed in L7 15 =(



## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Okay, so maybe that is a little drastic but here is a question from a person whom loves audio, has heard my fair share of systems and now just had mine installed...

System:
1 Z120 bt
1 Kicker L7 15 in a 3.5 cube sealed box
2 sets of kicker mids/highs
1 Interfire D3000.1 (22oo watts rms) not 3000
1 JL Audio 450/4 on mids/highs

The bass hits very low, and is consistent at that level. However at the higher notes they are pretty much non-existent. Just wondering if lack of power, tuning, or box issue. Buddy has a sound stream 15 in his truck, same amp, and the damn thing drops unbelievably hard. Hard to sit in his truck... 

I have not yet gone back to get the system tuned, nor have I checked the gains. (Hard as the amp is on amp rack).. but just wondering what I maybe missing.

Thanks for any advice.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

never been a fan of kicker or square subs. too many wierd things to compensate for in a square woofer. I understand that it gives more area, but unless SPL is all you care about, go with round


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

In a sealed enclosure that large, that is exactly the type of behavior you ought to expect out of that sub. If you prefer sealed, that's fine, but in order to get some more 'kick' out of it, try it in about 2 cu.ft. net instead. That will raise the Qtc to a point that should generate improved response in the second octave.

For that matter, you could probably stick one or two Aero-ports into the box you already have, and improve the impact through tuning.

*Edit: One 6" flare kit @ around 16" length will tune that box to the low 30's. Or you could do a pair of 4" kits, etc, etc - you get the idea.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

The L7 excels at low frequencies. That sub should likely have it LPF set at 60-80 Hz. Sounds like it's working as it should, you just didn't build around it right.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Odd, because I have heard single 15 L7 in a box that was sealed that covered a broad frequency range - on several occasions. Of course, I never inquired about the box dimensions etc.. grrrrrr


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

They will play lows very well, but I will tell you that alot of the kicker guys go ported. I also dont know how high you are getting them to play? In a huge ported box, you shouldnt have any issues playing the lows, but might have issues playing midbass. I would really say this is a 50 down type of sub


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

40s and lower no problem, 50 is there but not strong. Again, I have heard many kicker L7 15's that thumped all ranges... It's an angry sub at 35hz w/out a doubt - guess I just need to find someone familiar with these vs. just speculation.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

For what it's worth, I work for a Kicker dealer. I've seen/heard L7's perform well in a number of completely different applications. I've also heard many awful sounding but terribly loud results as well.

L7's get a bad reputation from keyboard commandos on the interweb because of the typical response of the "minimum" ported enclosure specs stipulated by the manufacturer. Just like anything else, they can be made to sound much better with the right box design.

Why did you choose 3.5 for the volume?


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Chaos said:


> For what it's worth, I work for a Kicker dealer. I've seen/heard L7's perform well in a number of completely different applications. I've also heard many awful sounding but terribly loud results as well.
> 
> L7's get a bad reputation from keyboard commandos on the interweb because of the typical response of the "minimum" ported enclosure specs stipulated by the manufacturer. Just like anything else, they can be made to sound much better with the right box design.
> 
> Why did you choose 3.5 for the volume?


I didn't choose it, my installer did. :/ Basically he chose the lower end vs the 6cu at the high end. It actually might be slightly lower than 3.5 with speaker displacement etc. I don't know @#$% about installs jusdt what I have heard with my ear and seen with my eyes.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

I wasn't trying to down you, just curious why anybody would use an L7 sealed if you have space enough available to vent it instead. (As a matter of fact, I would say that goes for probably 90-95% of all subwoofer installs, period.)

Like I said, an L715 will work in 3.5 ported and it would be an easy thing to try if you were so inclined. If you don't feel the need to build a new box, just screw about a cubic-foot worth of 2x4's into the box you have.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Chaos said:


> I wasn't trying to down you, just curious why anybody would use an L7 sealed if you have space enough available to vent it instead. (As a matter of fact, I would say that goes for probably 90-95% of all subwoofer installs, period.)
> 
> Like I said, an L715 will work in 3.5 ported and it would be an easy thing to try if you were so inclined. If you don't feel the need to build a new box, just screw about a cubic-foot worth of 2x4's into the box you have.



I didn't take as you were talking down to me  I am just frustrated with this install...

First: Experience... All my subs have been sealed. I don't like the sound of ported, nor the narrow range they have. Oddly what I am getting out of this 15 currently. 

Second: What I have heard.. I have heard plenty of single 15 inch l7 users with sealed enclosures thumping through out a broad band not just down in the 30hz range. 

I guess I can have my installer throw a cubic foot of boards in there.. anything else that can go in there? Foam etc? Just bs I can't hear ANYTHINg above 50 hz.. just drops off completely


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## pbasil1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Smaller box and a better amp. The L7's are obnoxiously power hungry. An honest 1800-2kw rms would be great for it.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Chaos is %100 correct! That size box ported will yield what your looking for (maybe more
Otherwise, a smaller sealed box may be what you prefer.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

The amp I have is 2200 watts rms at 14.00 the amp should be seeing just over that with the battery said up and what was metered... Just wondering if making a slightly smaller box will make that much difference. OR if just adding some 2x4's inside as the gent said previously.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Personaly I would rock the 6" flared port as mentioned above


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## OldSchoolRF (Aug 29, 2011)

FAUEE said:


> The L7 excels at low frequencies. That sub should likely have it LPF set at 60-80 Hz. Sounds like it's working as it should, you just didn't build around it right.


X2. I agree totally.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

OldSchoolRF said:


> X2. I agree totally.


if you have nothing to offer, don't respond.. No one needs duplicate posts NOR trolls. Thanks


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> Personaly I would rock the 6" flared port as mentioned above


Thanks... we will see... But if it's narrow NOW I assume it's going to be worse with the port.


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## GRIFTER9931 (Aug 30, 2009)

I thought there was a break in period on these particular subs??
I may have read that on a different board. I wil check and try and post a link


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

GRIFTER9931 said:


> I thought there was a break in period on these particular subs??
> I may have read that on a different board. I wil check and try and post a link


ALL subs have a break in period.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Trust me, they aren't getting a work out lol... as low as they play, I don't have a lot that pounds them that low all of the time.


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## GRIFTER9931 (Aug 30, 2009)

Shouldn't they then be broken in before being disappointed in them??


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Ive had a TON of experience with the l5 and l7 and your going to be ALOT happier when you go ported.
Thats what they were made to do get very loud in a ported box.
The size you you have now is good to get the most out of this sub your gonna have to port it its going to be like a complete 180.
But its never ever ever goning to hit 80 hertzs the way way it does 40 there nothing you can do there but you do have a lowend BEAST and i mean BEAST.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

thomasluke said:


> Ive had a TON of experience with the l5 and l7 and your going to be ALOT happier when you go ported.
> Thats what they were made to do get very loud in a ported box.
> The size you you have now is good to get the most out of this sub your gonna have to port it its going to be like a complete 180.
> But its never ever ever goning to hit 80 hertzs the way way it does 40 there nothing you can do there but you do have a lowend BEAST and i mean BEAST.



Well right now it does nothing at 80. When I say nothing, I mean flat... 

So, other than building another box, is it as simple as drilling out a hole in the front and putting this port (posted above) in? Excuse my ignorance...

Thanks


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Someone has already said it but did you check the Lowpass Xover on your mono amp? 
Is it set around 50Hz-60Hz? If so, try 80Hz and 100Hz... 

Kelvin


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

I have not, but will have it looked at tomorrow  Thanks for the reiteration... 

Thank you all for your help btw...


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

In the case of a flared vent kit, yes, all you need to do is cutout a hole for it to fit into. Calculate the length, account for the extra displacement, and tune accordingly. Each variable affects the others, so be sure to "measure twice & cut once"

Your local shop should have scrap wood laying around that can be used to displace some extra volume in the sealed box, if you would rather try that first.

As far as the SQ of a vented L7, remember that the manufacturer specs don't do them justice. Those designs are intended to be loud and "peaky" on purpose, but it is possible to flatten out the response considerably with the right design. 

Talk to XtremeRevolution - he runs a box modeling service that might be able to help you make a choice.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm not sure how similar they are in response, but my wife has a sealed CVR 15 in a 3.5 cubes sealed (and stuffed) box. We had to crank the Xover really high (like 150+hz) to get a good range out of it. She complained about the lack of highs until I tried that, and I must admit that it does sound better now.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Update please i really want to know how this turns out for you.
For me i ended up going with a w6.:shrug:


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Hey there, I will certainly update when I know Luke. Tomorrow I may be able to take it over and see if we can add some pieces of wood or what not. Maybe some foam... also check out the cross over situation.

If this does not work, then "cringe" I will go the route of ported. Problem is I know nothing about ports and not sure how effective my installer will be since the box is already built.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Also, have you checked the bass boost on that amp?

in a sealed enclosure, the natural roll off should couple to the cabin gain of your vehicle. Now if a 40 hertz boost was applied and as subwoofery mentioned about the crossover setting possibly being set to low... That may be a factor. Also look at the subwoofer settings on your head unit.

nevermind. product catalog says it does not have bass boost. It's low pass starts at 50 hertz. I am wondering if it was factory/just by luck set at the 50 and forgotten about while the installer is using the head unit crossover for the sub. have seen that before...


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

According to WinISD, the Qtc of the enclosure you have is a little over .8

Thus, the behavior you are describing is about what I would expect out of that alignment.

If you can displace about 1.5 cu.ft. with scrap wood (foam would not have that effect, unless it is closed cell) then that should raise the Qtc closer to 1 and generate better impact. However, this will lower overall efficiency and cost you output at some of the lowest frequencies.

That being said, your installer probably decided that a compromise was the best course of action and split the difference between the minimum & maximum sealed enclosure specs for that sub.

The good news is that the enclosure can be salvaged, if somebody puts a little more work into it. If that is not a preferable option, you either need another enclosure or a completely different sub, or both.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Doesn't that sub want like 5 cubes ported? 3.5 cubes ported (less after port displacement) may be a bit peaky ~ 45ish hz. 

Have you raised the Xover yet? 

Polyfill might help smooth some things about the sound IME.


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

Okay gents, here is an update. So after 5 hours of breaking in, I started pounding the sub. Still flat at 60hz and anything above, then pounded at 40 or below. Playing loud, playing it hard for 45 minutes - the sub locked in place (poof) gone... I ended up going and buying another one since I have to ship this other one back to kicker I guess. I am actually not real fond of kicker right now though others have told me that sub should play hard day in and day out all the time with no issues.

I went to a different shop to get this sub as they had them on sale for 250.00 and asked the guy kindly if he could tune it. Few differences right off the bat... He told me the sealed enclosure would be be fine and was just over at 2 cube with the displacement.

He also explained I needed the poly. Before he even put the poly in however we listened to the L7. The speaker did not suffer from the issues the previous one did. Prior I had to crank the sub up +6 on the subwoofer control on the pionner. This one pounds at -3... (The amp had not been touched yet either). He tuned it and the mids/highs as it seems the installer previously had my fronts on full range and low range enabled on the back and all settings were off. So now I am in the 8 hour break in period on this L7, along with having imaging back in the vehicle as well. Will let you know how it goes, but "crossing fingers" hopefully it was a faulty sub and this one will have a long life of making old people cringe!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

WOW! They are tank like in my book? Sounds like some faulty installer work from the get go? Wonder if they f'd up and wired only one coil on the sub or something? Usually most issues like you were having can be chaulked up to simple mistakes (amp settings, etc....) Always should be the first place you look (or have looked at for future reference).
Glad you have it all worked out now! (by the way going from 3.5cubes to 2cubes is not disp! its someone that is terrible at math LOL!) 

I have been debating going to the L7 (or L5) for my center console in my renegade. I need loud extreme sq is never going to be a reality (but I have heard the l7 sound amazing before). I think it may work for me....I dont think I can make a 10" work ported but could run a larger sealed version.... OR 8" ported? 
decisions decisions.......
Glad to hear that your situation got worked out though.... Aside from extreme or foolish abuse that sub should hold out for a LONG LONG LONG time! Enjoy!


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## Viejo Y Lento (Aug 31, 2011)

Would the shop that did the install not warranty the sub?


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> WOW! They are tank like in my book? Sounds like some faulty installer work from the get go? Wonder if they f'd up and wired only one coil on the sub or something? Usually most issues like you were having can be chaulked up to simple mistakes (amp settings, etc....) Always should be the first place you look (or have looked at for future reference).
> Glad you have it all worked out now! (by the way going from 3.5cubes to 2cubes is not disp! its someone that is terrible at math LOL!)
> 
> I have been debating going to the L7 (or L5) for my center console in my renegade. I need loud extreme sq is never going to be a reality (but I have heard the l7 sound amazing before). I think it may work for me....I dont think I can make a 10" work ported but could run a larger sealed version.... OR 8" ported?
> ...


Well the sub was not hooked up incorrectly. The installer that pulled it out said at first he thought it was overpowered or cross over was incorrect. Then he realized the amp I had (2200 watts rms) in a sealed enclosure would not really harm the sub. (In his words) "I could beat the piss out of that sub with just about any amp - sealed, and it should not hurt it, short of distorting.

He did state that I may not have broken it in long enough. Oddly he said majority of subs out there should not need a break in but the l7's are finicky! So he suggested an 8 hour break in. As well he stated that seeing as the 60/70 hz weren't audible that either one of two things happened. 4/5 hours of break in was not enough OR one of the VC was faulty. This speaker just locked up solid!

As far as the measuring, you're correct. However I guess it works out better being just over 2 cubes with the "displacement" if you will from what this guy said due to the amount of power im pushing and the freq range I want. It's all at break in though, he said I would be able to tell as soon as the sub had broken in - it was that obvious. 

(To the other person whom asked about warranty) - no, the installer is separate from whom I purchase the woofer. Unfortunately it looks like I will have to ship it back to kicker. Again, I am still upset that my first experience with a square went this way. Almost wish I went with the Solobaric 15 classic (round!)


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

The solo classics are awesome! I had the 12" and loved it. I would say any one thinking about the l7s and wants to go sealed the classic would be a better choice IMO. That sub also needs a ton of breakin. Time as well!
also they guy was very correct in that the smaller box will treat you much better with that type of power!
in theory you should be able to beat that thing like it stole your tv


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> The solo classics are awesome! I had the 12" and loved it. I would say any one thinking about the l7s and wants to go sealed the classic would be a better choice IMO. That sub also needs a ton of breakin. Time as well!
> also they guy was very correct in that the smaller box will treat you much better with that type of power!
> in theory you should be able to beat that thing like it stole your tv



LOL REX! 

Here is one thing I noticed though... The speaker they put in my car is dual 4 not 2's like I had originally so I guess the speaker is getting half the power. But i am curious if THAT had anything to do with the sound quality? Again I am a speaker idiot so.. =/


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Well that depends? (Half power issue) #1 are you certain the original people didn't wire the first one tto a 4 ohm load? Is your amp 1ohm stable? Was you electrical system starving the amp at 1ohms? 
These are all possibilities and the 2ohm load that the amp is seeing now is a better fit for everything in your car? That's the only way there would be an audible difference in your situation.
I remember a long time ago I had a solo X 10 with a clif designs amp that was supposed to be 25x1 at 4ohms and 3200 at 2ohms....I ran it at 4 and it was ridiculous! Willing to bet it was more then 25 watts
I would have been killed by low frequency extension had I run it in a 2ohm setup!! (Ps that sub in a 2.8cuft enclosure tuned to 28hz actually sounded amazing when tuned for sq! Blended perfect with my 3way front stage!)


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## love car audio (Dec 14, 2008)

i am certain they wired it to 1ohm load.. even with the extra battery I was seeing some dimming.. I am not seeing that now though... Hmmm... maybe it is a better fit? will see after breaking in


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## GRIFTER9931 (Aug 30, 2009)

love car audio said:


> Well the sub was not hooked up incorrectly. The installer that pulled it out said at first he thought it was overpowered or cross over was incorrect. Then he realized the amp I had (2200 watts rms) in a sealed enclosure would not really harm the sub. (In his words) "I could beat the piss out of that sub with just about any amp - sealed, and it should not hurt it, short of distorting.
> 
> He did state that I may not have broken it in long enough. Oddly he said majority of subs out there should not need a break in but the l7's are finicky! So he suggested an 8 hour break in. As well he stated that seeing as the 60/70 hz weren't audible that either one of two things happened. 4/5 hours of break in was not enough OR one of the VC was faulty. This speaker just locked up solid!
> 
> ...


So did you blow it or did the installer blow it?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

GRIFTER9931 said:


> So did you blow it or did the installer blow it?


O R was it a manufacturer defect?


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm not sure woofer break in has anything to do with the coils' thermal limits, unless the tight suspension is so tight that it doesn't allow enough excursion to cool the coils when big power is applied. 

I thought woofer break in fell somewhere between letting the suspension loosen up for mechanical reasons, and the short waiting game for the SQ to improve as it breaks in...


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