# FR88-EX, Tang Band ceramics, SLS 6.5 front stage review.



## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Well I finally got around to finishing up my "temporary" install of my new frontstage and have done some extensive listening with this setup. I put up a preliminary review in this thread, so now I was able to really put some time in on the setup and give a more thorough review. 

I have the Fountek and Tang Bands sitting in dash pods mounted inside of PVC pipe. Much like the "quick and easy tweeter pods" thread, but done with both mid and tweeter. I learned quite a bit fabricating these up and will most likely build a 2nd set with that knowledge so they'll be a bit prettier, but for now they look and work fine. One major fab I did do was trim down the flange on the Tang Band tweeters as it was rather large and too difficult to squeeze in with the Fountek. It worked, but looked fugly with the huge tweeter next to the 3" mid, so I ended up shaving most of the flange away to be able to squeeze the tweeter inside of a 1.5" pvc endcap. You can see below how much smaller I made them:










Here are a few pics of how the dash pods look with grills attached.




























I can go into some more detail for those who may be interested, but basically I used a 45° 3" PVC elbow for the Fountek's. Trimmed off am 1/8" piece of the smaller male end(which happens to fit snugly into the female end) and then used that as the mount for the speaker. Then I trimmed off another 1/8" piece to use as a grill cover. Just wrapped the ring with grill cloth and fit in right on top of the mid which was inset just enough so the grill would be flush. The female end was then sealed up with a piece of hard board and the eblow stuffed with polyfill. Not totally sure about the final volume but it's probably smaller than it should be, however after hearing them I don't plan on making it bigger or opening them up. They seem to handle more power and volume being sealed up as is. 

Tweeter pod was mounted directly to the elbow using a steel nipple to be able to run speaker wire to the tweeter. Both pods were sanded and painted with truck bed liner I got at wall mart to give it a textured look and mask the fact that it's really just PVC. Friends at work like the look and didn't realize it was actually PVC so my plan worked. Would look nicer with a full on fiberglass custom pod but these can easily be removed and dash can be back to stock in no time.

Setup 

I've changed a few things up from the preliminary review I did, mostly with how I have the mids/tweeters crossed. Before I had them crossed at 5k and liked the sound but after playing with it I switched it over to 10k and enjoy the sound even more. I will say this after my extended listening: You do not need a tweeter with the Fountek's if you run them on axis. I was very close to skipping my tweeter entirely, however the one thing I also noticed was that the Fountek's can sound a bit harsh on axis. If I had access to an RTA while setting this up I might have been able to tame them down a bit, but ultimately I decided to install them the way they are now. The tweeters seem to add a little more openness to the sound, though if I was able to tame the Fountek's just right I probably could have skipped them altogether. Figured since I had the Tang Bands I might as well use them and offer up a review.

The peerless and Fountek's are crossed at 200hz and they work well like this. 3 ways are definitely trickier to setup than a traditional 2 way, but if you can get them to blend properly they can sound great. I honestly can't tell where the Fountek's and Peerless's crossover, Had I not been the one to do the tweaking I'd have a hard time distinguishing which speaker is playing what, and that is always a great thing.

Sub duties are relegated to a single JL Audio *13w6*. I had 2 of them(great deal on CL) but sold one as it was far more than I needed. My PG tantrum 1200.1 died a few weeks back and I ended up getting a replacement amp. Grabbed a Kenwood KAC-X10D for 100$ brand new. Puts out 600 watts at 2 ohms which is perfect for the JL and it matches my KAC-X4R in size and looks. Sub is in a 1cu sealed box stuffed with polyfill. The box is too small for the woofer and I'll be replacing it eventually, but for now it does great. In fact after more tweaking on my part it blends much better now than in my previous review. 

After everything was dialed in, time aligned and some rough eq work I was able to just listen and enjoy some tunes for a couple of weeks. I can say after everything was tweaked and the speakers were all broke in that everything just sounded better. Everything blends together seemlessly and if you didn't know much about car audio you probably wouldn't even know it was a 3 way setup, or even that I had a woofer. The Tang Band and Fountek blend so well that I can switch back and forth between using the Fountek full range, and crossing them at 10k with the TB and I hardly can tell a difference. There just seems to be a little extra top end with the TB's but it's hardly noticeable, especially if you don't like really loud high's. I found myself slowly attenuating the tweeters until I got them right where they sounded best. Currently I have my gain on the tweeter amp at the minimum setting, and my deck has them attenuated at -5/-4 for the left and right side respectively. I'd say the TB's are extremely efficient tweeters and need hardly any power to get loud.

The SLS's and Fountek's also blend very well. I know what the Fountek's can and can't play so sometimes I'm in awe when I can heard midbass sounding like it's coming above my dash when I know the SLS's are in my doors. These things can really wang when asked to, in fact at the highest volumes they actually move so much they start hitting my door panel. I need to trim down the MDF baffle they're installed on so they have more room to move, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. When my sub amp died I actually went subless for a week or so and had to listen to only the frontstage but I was very impressed with the SLS's alone and what they could handle. In fact after going subless it made it much easier to tune and blend the sub once I got a replacement amp. I had noticed without the sub that my midbass had a lot more clarity and realized I had my sub playing too loudly in the same midbass range. I ended up crossing my sub lower than I had it before and also much lower in output. Right now the sub sounds a lot more like the DIYMA 12 sounded in my previous setup, in that it blends much more seemlessly and sounds less like a sub and more like an extension of my midbass. I'd recommend others trying out a subless setup until you get a feel for how it sounds, then adding a sub later just to fill in the very bottom. I feel this helped me achieve better transparency with my substage.

Review


I setup a usb flash drive with a bunch of reference music I was familiar with and listened the same music a lot while changing my xover points and aiming the fountek's. Without an RTA I feel I've gotten it about as good as I can and I'm fairly impressed for a 200$ frontstage. One thing that was consistent through all of my listening was the amount of detail that is evident. At first I thought it was just the Fountek's, but realized the Peerless's aren't slouches either. I can hear more detail in the midbass than the ID OEM's I was running before, not to mention they have much more impact and snap to the bass than before. I can't imagine getting much better midbass output and clarity without quadrupling your budget. You just have to ensure they're in a setup that doesn't require going above their playable range. For me that's ~200hz, but others claim they do well up to 500hz. Since I want most of my music coming from one source, the Fountek's, I crossed them as low and high as possible. I really think this is what helps out on imaging since the Fountek covers so much of the spectrum and the tweeters are as close to point source as you could get without using a coaxial setup.

I have a very solid center image and the soundstage extends out beyond both pods, more-so on the right. I'd say my soundstage starts right at my left a-pillar and extends out to the right mirror. Due to this I've centered my vocals just a tad to the right of center dash. This helps my left side from being too compressed and gives me a bit more clarity in that area. Instead of all sounds being blended together on the left side of my dash, I actually can say I have more of a far left, center left, center instead of just left and center. Since my right side extends out to the right mirror I still have the same sort of clarity on the right. I can't imagine how people can set center directly in front of them and have any sort of a balanced stage. 

I also have great soundstage height as well. Everything sounds like it's coming above the dash, right in the middle of my windshield. The only thing that sounds as if it's coming any lower is maybe the kickdrum, but then I kind of like how that works since it sounds like the drums are rolling across my dash and the kickdrum is placed below as it should be. Not only is the soundstage high up, but it also has a sense of space. Instead of just hearing everything at one height across my dash, some sounds definitely appear to be higher or lower than others. Cymbals and other sound effects extend upwards more, while other instruments are placed a bit lower. This is where the TB's seemed to add a little bit to the setup. Tonally I couldn't tell anything different from running the Fountek full range versus with the tweeter, but imaging and "airyness" was improved with the TB.

Speaking of tonality I'm impressed so far. Vocals and acoustic instruments sound better than any other system I've ran so far. Vocals seem more intimate, probably due to the detail of the Fountek's, but they also sound more natural. When vocals hit the high notes the Fountek's actually keep up without sounding overly harsh. Midbass sounds very warm and has quite the punch and attack, no doubt due to the SLS's. 

This is all I have time for right now but if anyone is interested I will put up a 2nd part with some specifics about what I was using as my reference material and my thoughts.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Great review, really nice. And I say no need for fiber glass pods as the PVC textured looks great. Great work on the pods, now set back and enjoy the fruits of your labor.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Thorough review.

Thanks!

I, for one, would be interested in the 2nd part.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

I love detailed, in depth reviews. I actually really like what you did with your speaker pods.

I'll be waiting to read part II.


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## M1A1 (Oct 4, 2008)

Did you ever try the Tang Band's without the Fountek?


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

> Did you ever try the Tang Band's without the Fountek?


Nope, I installed the Fountek and TB at the same time.


Also I edited it above but I'm actually running a 13w6, put 13w7 on accident. After some listening I can say this is a really nice woofer and you would have zero clue it was a 13 based on the sound alone. It's extremely punchy like people would expect a pair of 8's to sound.


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## Deton Nation (Jul 3, 2009)

Nice review. And it looks great too!
Mike


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Vageta-
A very well thought out and written review. Thanks a bunch for posting this. I was looking forward to getting your thoughts on the setup when I heard what you were putting together and I'm glad to see that you're really enjoying it.

Also, the pods look terrific. No need to do any more than you have in that area


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Part duex

Ok so I'll break it down a little further and talk about what kind of music I was listening to when testing out my speakers and some of my reference material. First off I hardly use any music as reference that I don't actually listen to. I realize Jazz and other types of music generally sound great on any system, but I'd prefer to tune my system to sound great with my preferred musical tastes. I listen to almost everything but I listen to a lot of older blues type metal(Sabbath, Zeppelin, etc..), grunge era music and just about anything acoustic I can find that has a decent recording. With that said here's what I was listening to.


Police - Synchronicity II

First off I have to say that the Synchronicity album is a very good recording for it's time period. I'm not a huge Police fan but I do like some of the music, this album being my favorite. This song has some really punchy, almost snappy bass in it that really can test your midbass. This is one of those songs that will make my SLS move enough to hit the door panel if I crank it up. With my previous setup this song sounded good, though the midbass was a little muddier. The SLS's however add more impact that I could feel in my chest, even without the woofer going. In fact the only thing the sub added was the kick drum as the SLS was doing everything else.


Police - Don't Stand So Close

Another Police song I like to use from an older album, but much like the previous example it has a lot of snappy bass and more active drumming. The snare drum in this song really stands out on the Fountek and sounds very natural. It also has a fairly heavy bassline that can get lost on less detailed speakers, but again I was able to easily keep tuned in on the bass guitar and follow it throughout the entire song. This song also starts out quietly with some random sound effects that end up floating in space across my windshield, one of them almost sounds like it's the hum of an electric guitar amp. I'm not even sure what purpose they serve in the song other than they are easier to notice with the Fountek's than my Rainbow's and they sounded higher up in my stage.


Norah Jones - Don't Know Why

I'm not usually a huge vocalist guy, though I do appreciate a beautiful voice and Norah definitely has that covered. This album is one of those really good recordings and it doesn't hurt that this type of music tends to sound well on most systems. This song features an acoustic guitar, a piano and a standup bass along with Norah's vocals, and some backup vocals(probably her too). Normally Norah and the piano stand out the most, but with the Fountek's the acoustic guitar, standup bass and backup vocals played a bigger role. Not only could I follow the bass more easily than before due to the improvement in clarity, but I could hear much more of the tone of the instrument. It started to sound a lot more like a "someone's fingers playing the bass" than just a generic bassline muddied up behind the other music. In fact that statement can sum up a lot of what I noticed about the new frontstage. Instruments started to sound a lot more like an real instrument and not some generic synthesized sound.


Sublime - Wrong Way

Great bassline that can easily get muddied up along with the drums, along with some trumpet/trombone(not sure which) makes this a great song to test your system with. As I was saying before the bass guitar actually sounded like a bass guitar playing alongside the drums instead of a generic bassline playing with a drum machine. This is another song that gets my SLS's moving and will hit you in the chest with it's impact. When the horns kick in they sounded very natural and believable, which again is our goal. Sublime has always had some good recordings and this one is no slouch. If you're not a huge fan I'd at least grab their greatest hits and give it a shot. The reggae/rock is a pleasure to listen to on a good system and can sound a bit garbled on a less than stellar one.


311 - Amber

Not my favorite 311 song but my lady likes it and I've been using it as a reference for awhile now. This song has a very open soundstage that kind of fills my entire car up. Not sure if it's due to the music itself or the recording quality, but it really fills up my cabin with sound and it has very good imaging. Another great bassline that can test the clarity and impact of your midbass(seeing a pattern here?).


Michael Jackson - Thriller

Now for something a little different... Actually I hate most of MJ's stuff after Thriller but this is one of those albums that had great recording values. A good copy of this sounds as good, or even better, than a lot of the newer recordings out there. The beginning of the song can actually give you a good test of your soundstage. As the song starts there are footsteps that walk across the stage from right to left and can help you pick out any holes in the stage or oddities. The Fountek's image so well that this part of the song works beautifully. The steps start out at the far right of my stage and slowly walk across my dash until they end at the far left of the soundstage. This song starts out with zero bass or midbass until about 40 seconds in. In fact at first you think something is wrong because there "should" be some lowend, but at about 40 seconds it kicks in with some major impact. I never really noticed before but there are bongos off to the right that I never really noticed were bongos before. This isn't one of my main references but I just happen to listen to the album and this song stood out.


Pink Floyd - Time

Pink Floyd albums always amaze me with their production values and how well they've stood up even after 30 years. In fact they sound better than a lot of the newer stuff out there. I like to use this track due to the ticking clock and bells that are in the beginning of the song. The bells can sound overly harsh on lesser systems and smear together as well. I noticed that the Fountek's get the bells just right and not only do they not sound too harsh, but they add a real sense of space as I can pick out all the different ones across the soundstage with some actually conveying more height than others. The rest of the song is great as well though the beginning is what I'm really listening to for comparison.


Alice In Chains Unplugged - Any song basically

Everyone seems to know about this album and just about any song is a good test. Brother is a good recommendation though I find Rooster great as well. Adds the element of backup singers and a lot more solo guitar on both sides of the soundstage. Rooster starts out with a lot of information on the right side but halfway through there is a lot more action on the left side. It's a great track to test out the detail across the soundstage and find if you have any areas that are muddied up or blurred. On my previous system I found that my left side had less detail than my right and I was able to fix it by messing with the tweeter aiming and gain. The new system did perfect from the start and I was able to pick out every instrument in full detail without having to mess with anything. This is a wonderful track overall to test how detailed any speaker is due to live nature of the recording and the use of all acoustic guitars. You can plainly hear the strings buzzing against the pick during the entire song, and this stood out even more than usual with the Fountek's. I've had people actually say they thought something was wrong with my tweeters because they simply aren't used to hearing that amount of detail and how a live guitar string actually can sound.


Black Sabbath - Anything from the first 4 albums or so.

First off I'm going to go a tad off topic and proclaim Black Sabbath as one of the most underrated rock bands of our time. Most people are aware that Sabbath are considered the grandfather's of heavy metal as we know it and that they single handedly created the "doom metal" genre. However the heart of their sound is heavy blues rock, much like Zeppelin, Deep Purple, etc.. Very talented musicians that often get overlooked due to them being throw into the "metal" category, but if you really listen to their earlier stuff you can see how great they really were. Very heavy, thick sound(but also the ability to create a groove that'll get your feet tapping) with just a lead guitar, bass and drums and not to mention Ozzy's vocals. That heavy sound was created by layering the bass and lead guitar lines together during parts of the music, while other times they'd play separately again. This is why I find their music a good test of your sound system to be able to distinguish the two while they're jamming away. Geezer Butler has become one of my favorite bass players now that I've been able to appreciate his style. Now that I've setup a system that has this amount of clarity and detail I have been able to hear the band in a different way that I've grown up hearing on the radio and other subpar systems.

With all that said here are a few to test out if you're into this kind of music. Skip past some of the standard fare (War Pigs, Iron Man, Paranoid) and get into some of the lesser known stuff.


Fairies Wear Boots

Great song that has their classic "layered" bass and lead, that breaks up into them playing separately a few times during the song. The layered parts will test how well you can separate the two and then other parts will allow the bass to stand on it's own. If you can get ahold of the remastered versions of these albums I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how long they've stood the test of time. 

Wicked World

Great song with some excellent drumming and a "wicked" guitar riff. Again the problem with appreciating older music is due to recording technology of the time which causes everything to get muddied up and blended. However with a quality enough system it will "pull the veil" off and really allow you to separate the music and hear it in a different way.

Last but not least try out Sleeping Village/The Warning off their first album. Really 2 separate songs but the first has kind of a segway into the 2nd and I've always thought of it as one long song. Lots of great guitar and bass work in here and will give your midbass clarity a run for the money. 

All in all I almost prefer listening to some of these older recordings because they sound like a "real band" playing live and have a much more intimate quality, whereas a lot of the newer stuff is so manufactured that some of it starts sounding almost electronic because they try to make it so perfect. I like to hear fingers sliding down the neck of the guitar, the drummer barely nicking a symbol or the vocalist taking a breath before the next line. That reminds me that I'm listening to real people playing music versus a bunch of guys playing instruments at seperate times that get layered together in the studio. It just feels more right when you know they're all playing together in the room feeding off eachothers energy. 

Ok enough of my musical ranting, just pointing out the fact that sometimes older music can be great on a good system and for younger folks you may be missing out. At any rate I'm very pleased with the way my system sounds right now. The only thing I think I will be doing in the near future is to build a new box for my 13w6, possibly ported, and the addition of an Alpine H650. I've read alot about it and I think it's perfect for what I want. I already have my system 90% of the way there from install and xover tuning alone, would like to be able to setup the mic and let it fine tune it for me. If it doesn't work as I hope then I can just sell it but I'd like to give it a shot and only resort to a manual DSP if I have to.

Also if anyone is interested in hear the setup in the Northern Cali bay area let me know. I'd be willing to meet up as I'd like others inputs and maybe even some pointers on making some general improvement. I'd also love to hear other's systems in comparison to my own since I haven't really heard any other good systems in quite awhile. Would love to know how mine stacks up against someone with a really dialed in system and know what I have to shoot for.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

You said you got a great deal on your 13W6 on "CL". What's CL?

Great review (part I & II). Did you ever consider going with the SLS8? What factors made you decide to go with the SLS6?


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

kfish323 said:


> You said you got a great deal on your 13W6 on "CL". What's CL?
> 
> Great review (part I & II). Did you ever consider going with the SLS8? What factors made you decide to go with the SLS6?


I'm quite sure CL means craigslist.


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Yep CL = craigslist. I got the pair of 13w6v2 for 380$ and they came with the grills. But a pair of those with 1400 watts was overkill in my Scion. One with 600 watts is still overkill.

Unfortunately I don't have any build pics really. Girlfriend had my camera when I was doing the work though I can easily explain it and show some pics off my first set I was playing with.

If I could have fit them I would have ran the 8's with no question. But with the 6.5's already being such a tight fit and touching my door panel if I crank them up to full there's no way I could have fit the 8's without major modifications. To be honest I'm very happy with the 6's and if you can't fit an 8 there's no reason the 6`s won't do you just fine. Trust me, these things have a lot of output and they're super transparent. I can feel the air moving against my leg when music is playing, yet the sound comes from the top of my dash.


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## digital (Sep 12, 2008)

Interesting read.

I'm going to have similar setup. IDQ12v2 + 6.5 SLS + Fountek FR880EX.

How much air volume is in those pipes?


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## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

where did you get that dash mat? i like it...

we'll have to get together for a listening session once i finish up my install in the coming weeks. i drive an xB


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Ordered it from JC Whitney online. Tried getting one from Ebay but I got a notice saying they were low on resources, etc.. I got the one with the cutouts for the dash speakers then got some carpet from Wal-Mart and wrapped it around my PVC then placed the dashmat on top. I got lucky and got perfectly matching carpet so you can't even tell they're different pieces except for the obvious seams.

Definitely up for the listening session, would love to hear what others have done with their xB's.



> where did you get that dash mat? i like it...
> 
> we'll have to get together for a listening session once i finish up my install in the coming weeks. i drive an xB


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

Another good track to try is "Straight Out of Line" by GodSmack. Not sure if the original has it but the version found on the Focal demo disks opens with a very realistic warzone with small arms cracking in the background, helicopters flying over, etc. A really cool track for percussion can be found on Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and its called 'Night Fight;' great track for stage width and depth plus the great impact of the drums. 
Thanks for the very detailed review! It seems Xbs are very popular for SQ...

just for S and Gs did you ever audition your system without the dashmat? Do you feel it helps tame some bad reflections?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

I see the xover points, but I dont think I saw how many watts you are driving your highend with? Those PVC pipes are killer. You wouldnt think about making another set for some cash would you?


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

> just for S and Gs did you ever audition your system without the dashmat? Do you feel it helps tame some bad reflections?



I listened to it both ways and think the dashmat does help, though I wouldn't say it was drastic in this case. It seemed to clean up my soundstage just a bit but the major reason I got one was to help blend in the PVC pods with my dash. However my last car had a dashmat as well and it helped it out even more drastically. My guess is that due to my install locations and the fact that my tweeters have the horizontal dispersion lens I have less reflection issues than putting them on the a-pillars or sail panels. They're firing forward for the most part and I have more reflection issues with my a-pillars. They will be getting wrapped in grill cloth shortly, just as soon as I get my lazy ass on it.

I have that Godsmack song though I don't remember the part with the guns and helicopters so I'll have to find a copy of that focal disc and give it a listen.


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm running 100 watts to my SLS's and Fountek's, however the Fountek's are 8ohm so they're getting less. They seem fairly efficient though and can get plenty loud with that amount of power, not to mention all the extra headroom I have. My Rainbow's were 4ohms and didn't sound significantly louder.

The SLS's are probably underpowered but I see no need to upgrade since they get plenty loud as is and I'm not even pushing them near their limits. Tweeters are getting 40 watts a piece from the Denon amp, but as I mentioned my gain is all the way down and I'm attenuating them even further with my deck. These guys could do well off of deck power alone but I wanted them to be as clean as possible.

I barely have enough time and patience to build my own pods heh, no way I'd be able to do them for someone else even for money. After experimenting I can say they could easily be finished within a day for anyone with some extra time and meager tools. A dremel, a hacksaw, drill and glue gun is all you really need. For the grills I used some spray glue as well. I learned my lesson that I should have painted them last as I've nicked them up a bit fabricating them after painting, but it's hardly noticeable.




> I see the xover points, but I dont think I saw how many watts you are driving your highend with? Those PVC pipes are killer. You wouldnt think about making another set for some cash would you?


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## CupCak3 (Jan 4, 2009)

Great review, nicely done!

I was just trying to figure out how to do something similar to your pods after getting some influence from a set of Klipsch computer speakers I have. 

Can you go into some detail on how you attached the pods to your dash? That's one the of biggest hangups I have right now. Thanks!


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## Deton Nation (Jul 3, 2009)

I have a question... If I have the tweeters on the side and decide to get some mids.. and have them playing from the cornet like that, doesnt that mess up the sound.? Having some come from off axis and some on? How does that work itself out.
Thanks.
Mike


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

^^
You'll end up with more reflection, and more roll off of the top end from the left tweeter since it will be very of-axis from your listening position, whereas the right tweeter will be very on-axis and will sound brighter. You can use eq to compensate a bit with the left tweeter but you'll still have reflection.

If you're going to put the mids on axis, why not the tweets too


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Nice review.

One thing I keep reading with all these installs using the SLS woofer is how transparent they are. It's nice to see the 6.5" version works really well too. For the folks who may be interested in just a 3-way setup subless, would you mind explaining in greater detail how the SLS woofers did? Did you run them full range or with a high pass filter? Any guess on frequency range and roll off, although this will vary by car. Ever try crossing the SLS and Fountek higher, if the HU's capable. 200Hz is a little low for a 3" mid. It's good for low to mid volumes, but the size and low x-over does limit overall SPL capability. Really, I'm just curious how high you feel the SLS can play...i.e. what might be a good option for a 2-way running a SLS + 2" full range.

It's reviews like this that make me want to do work on my 3-way. I'm shooting for labor day weekend.


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Actually I don't rely on my head unit for the sls/fountek xover point, that is handled by my Kenwood KAC-X4R. I've never bothered to really try a higher xover point since my goal was always to have one speaker cover as much of the frequency as possible and only use the other speakers to cover what's left over. I'm sure the SLS could easily play higher but my thinking is the higher they play, the more they will be localizable. The Fountek is handling 200hz to 10khz(and could go all the way up if I really wanted), and if they could go lower I'd let them. The more frequencies I have coming from same point source, and preferred install location for imaging/reflections, the less issues I'll have with phasing and EQ requirements. 

At least that's how I look at it.


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## hex2bit (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm actually thinking of a similar 3 way setup. I have been looking at using this combo:
Alpine XT19 tweeters (which I already run)
Fountek FR88-EX
Peerless SLS 6.5

My setup will be in my doors, so I need some better off-axis support (XT19's do very well). I'll try and get the tweet and mid a close as possible, and the SLS 6.5 would be in my lower door.

I also plan on running a carputer, with some nice audio processing software to do time alignment, EQ, and crossovers for all the channels.

The only thing I haven't decided on is a sub. Sounds like the SLS 6.5 go pretty low, but doesn't quite cover the bottom of the low-end. I may have build it and then decide if I want a sub or not.


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

A little update..

So I finished up a few more tweaks and things I needed to work on and made a significant improvement on the sound. First thing I did was to give my SLS's some room to breath since they were hitting my door panel at higher volumes. Have them installed on a double MDF baffle but had a layer of Dynamat extreme between the baffle and speaker that caused it to stick out too far. Removed that and remounted them which fixed the issue.

Also finally sealed up my doors better since the SLS's are moving a lot of air. I had already deadened the outer door panel but hadn't done much with the panel where the SLS's are mounted other than deadening the area around the MDF baffle. I took some cardboard and made a template of the large hole in the door frame, then cut a piece of 1/8" hardboard to fit. I used some of the really gooey adhesive that was holding on the plastic and put it around the hole of the panel to mount the hardboard with. The area had a recessed ring around it so my hardboard ended up being flush with the rest of the door panel. Then I put some more sound deadening over the seams and across the hardboard itself to seal it up. I also sealed up as much of the smaller holes in the door panel as I could with the dynamat.

Then I added some ensolite to anything that looked like it might rattle(lock mechanism, door handle opener, etc..) and then used some spray glue to attach an entire piece to the panel then reattached the plastic door panel.

This made a huge improvement to my midbass though I wouldn't say it was perfect. There is still a small bit of resonation at certain frequencies though I think it's the door locks resonating inside the plastic that surrounds it. Not sure how to tackle that exactly but my midbass response has improved. In fact it improved well enough I had to tame down my woofer once again as it reinforced the improved midbass a bit too much. Now when I turn off my sub completely it sounds like I still have one due to the improvement. Of course it can't play super low but the impact is pretty amazing for 6.5's. I can only imagine the 8's.

I also wrapped my a-pillars with black grill cloth so they blend better with my black speaker pods and dashmat. Also since my tweeters are playing very near the a-pillar I wanted to add cloth to the plastic to help with reflections. Since I also redid my time alignment at the same time it was tough to tell how much it truly helped, but I like the look of it and there's no doubt it can't be hurting.

So last thing was I remeasured my t/a and made some improvements. I had forgotten that when I installed my temporary pods over a month back I just left my t/a the same as it was when I had the Rainbow's installed. I had forgotten however that they were in different PVC pipe and the distances were a bit different. So I got out my calculator and played around with them and actually made a big improvement. Hardest part was my deck used CM for t/a and my Kenwood uses ms. Since my SLS and Fountek's are split off of my rear channel output I had to t/a with the deck to the speakers closest to me(SLS), then add extra delay to the Fountek's using the Kenwood amp. 

Using the exact measurements I took with my trusty tape measure it still didn't sound quite right. In fact it sounded less focused that what I had before(thankfully I can save 3 setups on the deck and switch back and forth) so what I ended up doing was figuring out the ratios I had before between L and R, then using a similar ratio except using the new measurements. In the end I basically just added a bit more delay to my entire left side which added a bit more width the the soundstage but also added a lot more depth and focused imaging. So I can tell you that it's good to measure to get a starting point with t/a, but do some tweaking by ear and you can probably get it to be even better.

Lastly I had been noticing that most music sounded great but electric guitars tended to be a bit fatiguing to my ears. I really noticed it on certain types of metal that had some piercing distortion guitar, ie; Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and a lot of Metallica music. I did some research and found the frequencies to start looking at to mellow the electric guitars down and found that 3k was where I had this nasty peak(well sounded like it, no RTA to verify). Anyways I ended up cutting -3db at 3.15khz and it really took the edge off the guitars and I was able to get rid of the fatigue.

I also had forgotten that I had messed with the EQ on my Kenwood amp with the previous setup so I went back and set it back to flat. Did a lot of listening and here are a few areas I ended up tweaking;

200hz/-2db (got rid of some muddieness and added some more clarity to my midbass)
500hz--2db (hard to explain but it seemed to clean up male vocals a bit and made them sound less hollow)
3.15khz/-3db (less fatiguing electric guitars as mentioned)
5khz/+3db (this seemed to bring out my vocals a bit and separate them from the music a little more)
8khz/-2db (cleaned up what little sibilance I was hearing, the Founteks don't really have sibilance issues like some tweeters I've had before)
16khz/+2b (I'm not a young buck anymore so my high frequency sensitivity is not like it used to be. This added just a hint more to spaciousness without going overboard)

I'm sure if I had an RTA I'd find all kinds of other issues, but it sounds much better to my ears for now. So all in all I definitely noticed an improvement in sound quality. Imaging and soundstage widened and became a bit more focused. Huge improvement in midbass to the point of lowering my woofer volume another 2db, not to mention less door panel vibrations to irritate me. Sound is overall just less fatiguing and more pleasurable to listen to. The extra detail from the Fountek's was causing a little extra harshness to metal and grunge music I hadn't experienced before, but after taming them down I can crank them up louder without the fatigue setting in. Also instead of just sounding like "distortion", I can actually hear the strings of the electric guitars when they're picked. This was very evident when listening to Van Halen's "Ain't Talkin Bout Love". I had a huge smile on my face because I heard the opening guitar in more detail and clarity than I had ever hard before. Also Nirvana, Tool, Metallica, etc.. were far less fatiguing than ever and I found myself listening to them to higher volumes which is probably bad. 

I think that until I can actually tune with a mic and RTA that I probably won't be able to do much more by ear. I'm extremely happy with the setup and now my hour long commute to and from work doesn't cause listeners fatigue anymore.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Wow! this is making me rethink going the 8" route. Maybe dual SLS6's in each door.


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## hex2bit (Dec 12, 2008)

Have you used pink noise before? It's a good method to EQ by ear. With pink noise, the energy at all frequencies is the same. This makes all the frequencies have the same amount of presence to your ears when tuned correctly. When you EQ, you work on each band and try and make that frequency have the same amount of presence as the rest of the frequencies. If you move a band up and down, you'll quickly be able to tell where there is too much of that frequency and where there's too little. You try and set the EQ band as best you can in the middle. Just move up and down through the EQ bands a couple times and get everything balanced out. If done right, no frequency should stand out when playing the pink noise sample. Then try listening to your music and see how it sounds. Depending on your preferences, you might want to make some little adjustments, but that will at least get you a decent baseline.


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