# '17 Suburu WRX Build Log (Audiofrog / Helix / Mosconi)



## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I haven’t upgraded an audio system in a car I’ve owned since 2003. I was pretty heavy into car audio in the mid-’90’s when I acquired my first car at 17 years old and that lasted into my early 20’s, but after I graduated college, I joined the military, got busy, got married, had kids… (four of them). You know how it goes or maybe you don’t and if you don’t, take advantage of it! 😂

Three months ago, I bought a ‘17 Subaru WRX without HK audio and the base factory audio system is absolutely horrible so I decided I wanted to upgrade it. The WRX is the third car and I was fortunate to find it with low mileage, so I plan on having it for quite a while and thus wanted to go with the “good stuff”.

This is a work in progress and I have several goals for this install: 1.) I wanted to buy all of the main components of the system out of the classifieds here or eBay. I went through that phase of my life where I wanted to buy everything brand new, but again, “married with four kids” so I can’t do that much anymore, especially on car audio. I bought the car used, so I figured I’d follow that same concept for this. There are great deals in the classifieds on great equipment. 2.) I want to keep it as stealthy as I can. 3.) I am capable of woodworking and moderate amounts of fabrication, but I don’t want to get too crazy with custom fabrication, LED’s, acrylic, fiberglass, etc. Not because I don’t appreciate that type of stuff. I’m usually in awe of some of the installs I see in here, but I just want to keep it simple. Maybe sometime down the road, I’ll do more – fab pillars or sail panels depending on how happy I am with the SQ, but for now, I will keep it fairly simple. 4.) I need trunk space, so a small, single sub enclosure is a must. 5.) I want to keep the OE head unit and all factory wiring intact in the event I want to go back to stock.

I decided to do a 3-way setup with no rear fill other than leaving the rear OE speakers hooked up, but I plan on leaving the fader all the way to the front and just I will swing it to the rear when the kids complain they, “Can’t hear the music” (or just crank it louder). 😁 The WRX has dash speakers that are basically small midranges/tweeters and 6 1/2” drivers in all four doors. I wanted to stick with the stock speaker locations for now so I decided to improve on them. After much deliberation, the below equipment is what I chose.

Drivers –
Audiofrog GB10’s and GB25’s
Audiofrog GB60’s
Audiofrog GB10D2

DSP –
Helix DSP.3 with HEC USB
Helix Director
(I'll most likely replace the Director with a URC.3 since I foresee not being able to find a good place to install the Director.)

Amps –
Helix P Six MkII
Mosconi Pico 1

I still need to decide on wiring, sound-deadening materials, and all the miscellaneous items required to install an audio system so I'll add more to this log as I go along.

I’ve started to attack mounting the GB10/GB25’s in the OE dash location. I downloaded Autodesk Fusion 360 and with no previous CAD experience, came up with an adapter design to mount the GB25’s in the factory tweeter location. As you can see, the factory “tweeter” has brackets on both sides to mount them. I took a picture of it and imported it into Fusion. After calibrating the scale, I was able to come up with a design and sent it off to be 3D printed out of ABS.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

My first attempt came out pretty much dimensionally perfect, but after reading that GB25’s work better in a small enclosure, I tossed the IB style adapter and went back to the drawing board. I expanded upon my first design and added a “cup” underneath it that is approximately .2 liters; just what the GB25 calls for. The white version is a 15% infill “prototype” (it’s cheaper to print) for fitment purposes. They were so “porous” that they actually leaked water when I filled them up to check volume. After trimming a little bit of extra plastic off the A/C vent duct down in the dash cavity, my enclosure slipped in there pretty well, but it needed some tweaking because they were still hitting some A/C ductwork on the driver’s side. I made the cup section 4mm shorter on the bottom and 2mm wider overall and then 1mm shorter where the driver mounts. I sent the tweaked design off for a pair of them to be printed again at 60% infill (the black ones). 60% infill makes them very strong and these don’t leak water (or air). They came out perfect. Below are some pics of the design process and the finished product. I installed M4 brass heat inserts to mount the GB25’s and drilled a small hole at the bottom to route the wires through, just big enough for the wires to fit tightly and pretty much seal the hole. After filling one with water, these hold just under a cup of water and .9 cups = .213 liters.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Next up was getting the GB10’s next to the 25’s. I did not want to cut into my pillars and I felt they’d be better off next to the 25’s. I also didn’t want to cut into my door panels. I know the ideal solution for SQ would be custom pillars or sail pods, but having committed to dash mounting, I decided I wanted to mount the tweeter in the empty spot just forward of the GB25 near the windshield, however, there was one problem. At 9mm, the tweeter is too tall and there wouldn’t be enough clearance in that area to install the factory grills. I had already decided to cut openings in the factory grills and wrap in speaker cloth to get more clearance and provide better SQ, but the tweeter would still stick up past the opening so I decided to CAD design a tweeter mount that would sink the tweeter down about 1/4”. Below you can see my original idea to the finished product. I took a chance not getting a cheap prototype with this one, but fortunately, my design turned out exactly the way I wanted it to.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

And that's about how far I've gotten. 😂 Having to homeschool kids is cutting into my playtime. On to the passenger side now. I do plan on modifying the OE grills. I will be trimming them and wrapping in black speaker cloth. More to come...


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

It was a pleasure meeting you yesterday and seeing the beginning of your build!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

You too, thanks!


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## .69077 (Aug 24, 2013)

You are gonna love the GB 3 ways. I had them in my Tundra and they were fantastic. Love Subaru builds (and you are giving me ideas for my STi)


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Sub'd fo sho! Looking bad as f___


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

Nice work! I did the same exact thing in my WRX, however, it was with Dayton speakers. I felt that the tweeters in the a-pillars sounded better in the end. Might have just been the tweeters responsible. I also played with GB10s in the pillars and they sounded great. Check out my logs from my 2015 and 2018 WRX's if you have a chance. I've done a ton of setups with different positioning, hopefully it saves other people from having to cut their cars up a ton. Lol

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

nice work brother


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks. I will see how it sounds with them next to the midrange on the dash and then go from there. Pillars are cheap (less than $20 each), so if I decide to do anything with the pillars down there road, it'll be easy. If I were to do the tweeters in the pillars, I'd definitely mold them into the pillars so they were more angled toward the listeners. Heck, if I am going to bother with all that, I may as well make some sail pods. The WRX's have a perfect spot for them, as do just about all the new Subaru's with the little window near the side view mirrors.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

SkizeR did a set in a Crosstrek that were a work of art. They're basically the same car so could only imagine they would work! Check it out;








2016 Subaru Crosstrek - Audiofrog, Helix, Zapco...


Happy Saturday everyone! We just wrapped up a video for my friend Johns 2016 Subaru Crosstrek. This video is a bit different in that it is pretty much a time-lapse of the whole process of building the sail panel "monitors", as well as some tidbits of making the custom amp cover, and a final...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I saw those, yes. Very nice.


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## wangatang (Mar 11, 2020)

Very cool. I 3D printed some spacer rings out of ASA for my GB10 to mount into my sails. Looking forward to see what you do to your speaker grilles, I need to do something similar to mine too.


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Subbed, mad work dude. Attention to detail really makes a build look NICE...I like it man!
Props on the thought of creating an enclosure for the mid range in the manner you did...that gives me some ideas, however without ready access to a printer it is difficult to be confident of the result...still a great idea. X2 on checking out beerdrinkrs posts...they have been my go to posts up to now. Not sure if you ever did an enclosure for your mid range mate? In any event I am a fan of beer's tweeter install method for sure...that position for the A Pillar tweeters seems like a winner for me!

Great work (and gear) though mate, nice to see the build come along


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Frequentflyer said:


> Pillars are cheap (less than $20 each), so if I decide to do anything with the pillars down there road, it'll be easy.


Apologies for the double post....but you can get pillars for a 2015+ Scooby Doo for ~$20...? Dammmm! Admittedly I haven't looked around, but if that is realistic then that makes me a hell of a lot more confident about having a hack at the A Pillars and maybe even doing some minor fiberglass work around there...my gear has been sitting in my closet for nearly 4 years and my car has less than 15,000 km's on it (12,000 miles?) so I'm just a bit out of touch! Reality is that despite buying my wheels brand new they are still near 4 years old...goddam time flies...
Thumbs up all the way mate


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

captainbuff said:


> Apologies for the double post....but you can get pillars for a 2015+ Scooby Doo for ~$20...? Dammmm! Admittedly I haven't looked around, but if that is realistic then that makes me a hell of a lot more confident about having a hack at the A Pillars and maybe even doing some minor fiberglass work around there...my gear has been sitting in my closet for nearly 4 years and my car has less than 15,000 km's on it (12,000 miles?) so I'm just a bit out of touch! Reality is that despite buying my wheels brand new they are still near 4 years old...goddam time flies...
> Thumbs up all the way mate


Yep. Pillars are cheap and so are the stock – speaker grills. I got speaker grills off eBay for about $10 a piece with free shipping. So I don't really mind cutting into them to experiment.

Speaking of speaker grills, I played around with covering one of my grills with speaker cloth today. I don't have much experience with spray adhesive/upholsery work and although they came out "OK", I will treat this one as my test dummy. In the end, I realized less is more, meaning I cut too much plastic out of grills. I will redo the driver's side grill with smaller holes. I am just going to use the stock shape as a guide this time, as it is spenty big to accommodate the GB25. Once I take the material out of the center of it, it doesn't touch the speaker surround. I will also cut the tweeter hole smaller and then rewrap in cloth. The cloth definitely needs to be stretched more.


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Frequentflyer said:


> Speaking of speaker grills


'How to' aside; I'd be pretty interested in your thoughts regarding the difference in sound with the grille material removed....wait up; you haven't powered your system yet, you are just in preparation right? All good  trying to get up to speed!
That OEM location for the mid range and the tweeter and the issues with wind screen interference just have me concerned...exponentially so with the tweeters...
All good, can't wait to see how it turns out


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Yes, I have not powered anything up yet. I am still using the stock door speakers to listen to music. 🤣

Once I get the midrange/tweeter situation sorted out, I will start running wiring and stuff. I actually haven't bought any of the speaker wire, RCA's, distribution blocks, sound deadening materials, etc. yet. I also haven't bought the sub enclosure yet either. I plan on going with the same enclosure *THX0849 *went with for his sub. I am going to mount the amps and DSP under both front seats on HDPE (or King Starboard) trays. I'll also need to make door adapters out of the same materials for the GB60's. I have a band saw, but I need a router, so like I always say, "Never pass up the opportunity to buy a new tool!". 😄 So there is quite a bit of evolution still to come. I really need the kids to go back to school so I have more than an hour or so to go out and mess with the car, but I don't think that's going to happen until next Fall.

As for the grills; the factory dash grills appear to be very restrictive. They are pretty thick plastic with small holes. I am not impressed with them, especially for high frequency speakers. The speaker cloth I got, which is supposedly "UV treated", is very thin (but strong) stuff and advertised as "acoustically transparent". It is also a little bit stretchy and comes in different colors.



Amazon.com



I really didn't want to spend the amount I did on speakers and then block them with OE grills, so modifying them is a must. I know there have been plenty of people out there who've won SQ competitions with dash speaker setups. I know it's generally not the ideal location for components, but it's definitely vehicle dependent and hopefully the Helix helps me tune any deficiencies out of the system. Like I said, if I think it's lacking, I can always try fabbing up some pillars or sail panels. I will make sure I leave some slack in all the speaker wires so I've got room to move things around.


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Frequentflyer said:


> The speaker cloth I got, which is supposedly "UV treated", is very thin (but strong) stuff and advertised as "acoustically transparent"


You sparked a screw in the back of my head to to rattle into a fixed position for a while before becoming loose again  anyway it may hinder or help or piss off some; but my interests go between car, home and pro audio. I am no professional at any but I know a little! Your mention of 'acoustically transparent' cloth made me think of a a section of a book that I read and the resulting website it led to...apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere by others.

High-Performance Textiles - Guilford of Maine 
They sell a heap of fabrics designed with acoustics in mind. I do not have any affiliation with them...on the contrary - I will be honest at all times - I will not 'vouch' for their efficacy; as I have not personally tried their products and I have not done enough research into the general consensus of their products to make an informed opinion. However the book I referred to is considered a bit of a bible' for home studio design though so I would take their products seriously.

Hopefully something beneficial for someone 



Frequentflyer said:


> I really didn't want to spend the amount I did on speakers and then block them with OE grills, so modifying them is a must.


Fair enough!



Frequentflyer said:


> I know it's generally not the ideal location for components


You are aware of it so I won't say anything more. Except 'sheeeeeaaaatttttttttt d'oh'



Frequentflyer said:


> if I think it's lacking, I can always try fabbing up some pillars or sail panels. I will make sure I leave some slack in all the speaker wires so I've got room to move things around.


Mate; all good  you seem to have the approach of pretty cruisy and happy to take it as it comes so good on you.There will always be ups and downs; but if you are happy to take it as it comes and sit on it until you can try something else then kudos to you!

All the best mate, I look forward to seeing the results 
Peace


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

captainbuff said:


> High-Performance Textiles - Guilford of Maine
> They sell a heap of fabrics designed with acoustics in mind. I do not have any affiliation with them...on the contrary - I will be honest at all times - I will not 'vouch' for their efficacy; as I have not personally tried their products and I have not done enough research into the general consensus of their products to make an informed opinion. However the book I referred to is considered a bit of a bible' for home studio design though so I would take their products seriously.


I believe a lot of the fabrics from Guilford are for sound absorption. They use these fabrics a lot for covering acoustic tiles and walls in studios and auditoriums to reduce echoing. I don't think their fabrics are acoustically transparent for covering speakers. The fabric I got is very thin and you can see right through it if you hold it up to the light. It is however a very strong, slightly stretchy fabric. It sticks well to the Super 77 also.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Subscribed! I like these DIY stealth builds where there is extra attention to detail. I'm really am enamored with the 3D design, modeling/printing - especially the part where you take a photo, adjust scale and design around that. I've been 3D modeling industrial equipment (ACAD/Solidworks) for 20 years but haven't really took the plunge into any of the newer consumer targeted software or printers.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Truthunter said:


> Subscribed! I like these DIY stealth builds where there is extra attention to detail. I'm really am enamored with the 3D design, modeling/printing - especially the part where you take a photo, adjust scale and design around that. I've been 3D modeling industrial equipment (ACAD/Solidworks) for 20 years but haven't really took the plunge into any of the newer consumer targeted software or printers.


Thanks. Yeah it really is amazing what you can do from home now. Autodesk Fusion 360 is free if you register for personal use and it is some really powerful design software. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos to learn how to use it and the things you can do with it are amazing. 

I actually found out about being able to take a picture and designing over it later on in the process and was like, "Holy crap! This is cool!". Once I figured out how to do that it opened up a lot more options, especially with the tweeter mounts I designed. The tweeters fit in them perfectly. They say most design tolerances for 3D printing is .5mm, so it's pretty accurate.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

So I did a little more precision holing today. 😁 Took minimal material out of the grill, which I think will work better when stretching speaker cloth over the holes. Also, a build log wouldn't be a build log without pics of the merchandise, so I threw one of those in there too! 😎


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Driver's side dash grill do-over: This one came out a lot nicer. Smaller holes is the way to go. This one is almost perfect or at least almost as good as it's going to get. The passenger side will probably be the best one yet.

I also did some R&D on the doors (or maybe mostly "R" without the "D" for now 😁 ) to get a feel of what my sound deadening and speaker adapter situation is going to be. So the OE speakers and their mounts are all one piece. As you can see, they are slightly angled toward the driver. The mount is roughly 3/4" deep on the back side and 1 3/8" on the front side. I am going to go with 1" thick King Starboard (HDPE) for my adapters for the GB60's. I won't be able to get an angle on them, but that's OK. I plan to use some SoundSkin or NVX rings on them. What is strange is a rectangular cutout in the stock speaker grills. I don't understand what they're for. They don't seem to serve a purpose. You can see what I'm talking about in a few of the pics (I am pointing to it). You can actually see where it rests on the foam surround on the speaker. In that area on the door panel's speaker grill, there are no holes. I plan on drill out those holes with a small drill bit if I determine that it serves no purpose.


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

Interested if you can figure something out for the door grille. I've been trying to think of something to do to them but haven't been able to think of anything. 

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

beerdrnkr said:


> Interested if you can figure something out for the door grille. I've been trying to think of something to do to them but haven't been able to think of anything.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


Yeah I think I will just carefully drill out those fake holes and sand down that rectangular shape on the inside of the grill. It is one of the strangest thing I have seen, but they do things for a reason. I just can't figure it out. Subaru's share lots of common components so maybe it has some sort of function in another model.

On another note; I took the driver's side seat out today to do some measurements. There is quite a bit of room under there in all directions. However, I think I am going to go in another direction with my amp/DSP setup. I don't want to install amps in the trunk and my original plan was to somehow stack the DSP ontop of one of the amps. The problem with that idea is the ARC amps have adjustments located under the cover on top of the amps so that poses an issue. I decided to pick up a used Helix P Six MkII so I will be offloading the XDi 1200.6 and the DSP.3. The P Six puts out 120 watts per channel instead of 150, but it saves me some hassle with the install. I think I may offload the X2 1100.1 for a smaller sub amp also. Commiting to underseat install is limiting my options. A few tiny mono sub amps out there are the Mosconi D2 500.1 (won't do 2 ohms), the Mosconi Pico 1 (750x1 @ 2ohms) and the RF T750X1BD (750x1 @ 2-ohms and known to put out a lot more).


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## ajt976 (Feb 27, 2019)

Just catching up, but those dash mounts came out great! Honestly I'm contemplating doing something similar in my truck. I've cleaned up all the honeycomb bracing on the underside but wondering if I'd be better off just cutting a hole all the way through and gluing some grill cloth over the top.

Good score on the PSix, if I would've been thinking about it I probably could've gone that route as well and saved a lot of room/hassle/wiring. As it stands I'll be keeping the DSP.2 and pair of Arc 1200.6's to give me 12 channels of amplification and a little more flexibility.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

ajt976 said:


> Just catching up, but those dash mounts came out great! Honestly I'm contemplating doing something similar in my truck. I've cleaned up all the honeycomb bracing on the underside but wondering if I'd be better off just cutting a hole all the way through and gluing some grill cloth over the top.
> 
> Good score on the PSix, if I would've been thinking about it I probably could've gone that route as well and saved a lot of room/hassle/wiring. As it stands I'll be keeping the DSP.2 and pair of Arc 1200.6's to give me 12 channels of amplification and a little more flexibility.


Yeah I'd really like to stay with the ARC amps, but I've determined it's just not going to work out for my plans. I ended up buying one of these new Mosconi Pico 1's. 750x1 at 2-ohms and it's roughly 6" x 4.5" x 2". Found a great deal from an overseas vendor in Germany. I added the amp to my cart, sat on it overnight and when I woke up this AM, the vendor had sent me a voucher for another 5% off so I pulled the trigger. I don't believe there is a smaller mono amp out there right now with that kind of power that is 2-ohm stable. I think it'll be more than enough to drive a single GB10D2. Since it'll be mounted under my seat, I am not too worried about heat in the summer time as it will be in a conditioned space with AC vents blowing on it. My plan is to throw the P Six under the passenger seat and the Pico 1 under the driver seat with extra room for my distribution blocks mounted to the same amp plate. My power line from the battery is going to come down the driver's side so it should work out nicely. I've got roughly 14" by almost 10" to play with under each seat, but I'd rather have the amps as far forward as possible so people resist the urge to put their toes on them.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

Frequentflyer said:


> Driver's side dash grill do-over: This one came out a lot nicer. Smaller holes is the way to go. This one is almost perfect or at least almost as good as it's going to get. The passenger side will probably be the best one yet.


Round 2 of your grill looks very nice. I thought about leaving the curve in the factory grill for grill cloth support. But I'm going a different route with speaker placement (whenever I finish).




Frequentflyer said:


> I also did some R&D on the doors (or maybe mostly "R" without the "D" for now 😁 ) to get a feel of what my sound deadening and speaker adapter situation is going to be.


There's a website that sells really nice HDPE speaker mounts for Subarus. He came from the Subie forums and now makes brackets for a few different cars. The owner was very nice to work with in my design. I ended up not being able to use his adaptor b/c I'm squeezing 8's in the doors and it needed too much customizing. Again, he was very polite and helpful:



Spacer Information Page – Car Stereo Adapters






Frequentflyer said:


> What is strange is a rectangular cutout in the stock speaker grills. I don't understand what they're for. They don't seem to serve a purpose. You can see what I'm talking about in a few of the pics (I am pointing to it). You can actually see where it rests on the foam surround on the speaker. In that area on the door panel's speaker grill, there are no holes. I plan on drill out those holes with a small drill bit if I determine that it serves no purpose.





beerdrnkr said:


> Interested if you can figure something out for the door grille. I've been trying to think of something to do to them but haven't been able to think of anything.


I have been puzzled about that rectancle. What a bizarre place for it, covering the factory speaker. I also planned to drill out the fake holes. In fact, that was on my mind for both the door card and the dash grill. Drill out the holes larger until the webbing is very thin. I think it would support the dash cloth even better.




Frequentflyer said:


> My power line from the battery is going to come down the driver's side so it should work out nicely.


If you've already ran your power wire, please let me know and I'll delete these. I haven't made a build thread yet to reference. Everyone seems to cut a slit in the boot on the driver's side. Go up a few more inches and you'll find a rubber grommet:









This hole and a 5/16"x17/32" grommet are the PERFECT size for 1/0 welding wire:

















It's a pain to get to but it does exit into the cabin ~below the dash. It's at the VERY top of the "kickpanel". I had to remove a few pieces to get good access inside the cabin, then put them back:









FYI, a little car synthetic "wax" goes a long way to help pull the rubber grommet down your power wire and into place. I used Meguiar's Hyper Dressing b/c it's water based and cleaned up easily compared to a gel-based professional pulling lubricant:

















Finished:









Hope this helps ease your power wire pull.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I have not yet run my power line. I will follow your lead when I do.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

The above mentioned grommet worked like a charm for me and ran my old school 0 ga through it relatively easily. Helps to remove the OBD connector to slip your hand/arm up into the area. I checked it's condition a few weeks ago as I was a bit concerned with the grommet being thin etc. It's perfect and not a drop off water gets through there. Ended up mounting the fuse holder under the drivers side fender fabric cover as there's a nice flat spot for it. Following this build intently!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> The above mentioned grommet worked like a charm for me and ran my old school 0 ga through it relatively easily. Helps to remove the OBD connector to slip your hand/arm up into the area. I checked it's condition a few weeks ago as I was a bit concerned with the grommet being thin etc. It's perfect and not a drop off water gets through there. Ended up mounting the fuse holder under the drivers side fender fabric cover as there's a nice flat spot for it. Following this build intently!


Funny you should mention that "flat spot" under the fender cover. I popped that thing off the other day and thought the same exact thing! I can come right off the battery and go up under that cover and down the fender in through the hole you guys mentioned. I am assuming that's how you guys did it. I was going to buy a new positive battery terminal, but after seeing how many weird looking factory accessories/power lines are hooked up to the battery, I am just going to use an eye-ring terminal on the top bolt. I am not going to fool with the stock battery terminal.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

I planned to add a lug on top of the fused link but it interfered with the stock cover. If you aren't keeping the stock red plastic cover, this could make a great option for cable routing:









Watch out for insulation pull-back if you bend the cable. I had planned on a straight entry to the lug as the above picture. When I changed to the side lug and formed the cable down the side of the battery, I had some pull-back w/the welding cable insulation: 

















You can see that I settled on the side of the battery clamp. I planned to mount a Blue Sea circuit breaker w/rear terminals on at the felt cover inside the engine bay. I might change it one day, but used a generic top terminal breaker below/beside the battery for now:









I'm embarrassed to post this. I'll cover the terminals w/heat-shrink and see if my OCD allows me to leave it that way. I'm telling you in case you use these locations so you can cut the insulation to the correct angle. Don't follow the rookie mistake.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Well, it appears that at some point during previous ownership, the battery terminal covers were removed and never replaced. I thought it was weird that the battery didn't have terminal covers as I would think those are common factory safety features on any vehicle. I may order them from Subaru just so I have them because I don't like not having them. One wrong move with a socket handle and it's bad news. I think if you wrap in shrink it will be fine.

Nice circuit breaker. I thought about going with a circuit breaker, but have since decided to go with an ANL fuse holder. Got a Stinger SPD5204 from Walmart.com for $26, ironically...


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

Oh, and I love your 3d printed mounts. I haven't made anything audio related on my printer yet. Have you shared your design files anywhere?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

nyquistrate said:


> Oh, and I love your 3d printed mounts. I haven't made anything audio related on my printer yet. Have you shared your design files anywhere?


I have shared my files. I actually modified my mid-range enclosure design to accommodate a GS25 for THX0849 since the mounting rings are different size.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

Frequentflyer said:


> I have shared my files. I actually modified my mid-range enclosure design to accommodate a GS25 for THX0849 since the mounting rings are different size.


I just read that in his thread. Very cool. I used a plate of ABS for my temporary Morels. I'm not using the dash for my permanent install BUT I have two other Subies that haven't been touched. I'm considering tweet & mid in the dash like yours or a widebander in a pod on the door. I've been wanting to make a fiberglass mold there but am very interested in your method of designing on top of a picture.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

So mine are obviously designed for the exact measurements of the GB10 and GB25. If you knew which drivers you were going to use, I could possible whip something up, but just keep in mind that there is very limited space up there in both width and height (as you most likely already know). Going with some other fabricated grill would open up more options, but I wanted it to look factory.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Passenger side done. Just have to wrap the grill.


























Driver's side finished:









I got the Helix P Six Mk II in the mail and I am waiting on my Pico 1, which is coming from Germany. I ordered some King Starboard (HDPE) off eBay. 1" thick for the GB60 adapters I need to make and 1/2" thick for my amp mounts. Most of my wiring and sound deadening materials will be coming soon also, but Sonic was out of stock on a few things, so I'm still shopping around for odds and ends. So, things are coming along... slowly, but coming along for sure.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

So I have a Helix Director and a URC.3. I bought the URC.3 after I got the Director because I wasn't real confident I was going to find the appropriate place for the Director. I love the Director. It's snazzy as **** and seems to be what all the "cool" kids are using, but I can't figure out where to put it without spending a lot of time fabbing something up. I thought about putting it in the driver's side sun visor where the vanity mirror is, but it just wasn't going to work and to be honest, this thing is meant to be seen. Then I asked myself, "Do I really want it to be seen?". You also really can't use it while driving. Needless to say, I am still up in the air with the Director so today I started figuring out where I'd put the URC.3.










If I weren't so apprehensive about tearing into my center console (which I assume is an expensive piece to replace), I would have considered putting it here. I don't use this area for anything else, so it'd work and it'd be conveniently located. Other than permanently modifying the center console, the downside is; you can see it all the time.










This area would work. It's easy. I could slap some Velcro or 3M tape on the thing and call it a day. It'd also be semi-hidden. The downside is that I'd have to drill a hole through the backside of that pocket to accommodate the wire harness, which turns me off, but it is a close 2nd.


















And the winner is.... I think (the above). Fuse box door. This is just above my left knee and easy to get to. I think I'd even be comfortable reaching down there while driving. Just when I thought I was done with the 3D printing, I realized I was going to need a bracket to mount the URC.3 to this door. I want to use Velcro so I can still get to the fuse box diagram if need be. Below is what I came up with. I'll be sending this out for printing tonight ($13.44 shipped for two of them - doesn't hurt to have a spare). Here's the design:


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

You can get a complete center console without the Alcantera in excellent condition for under 200. 15-19 Subaru WRX Center Console Armrest CupHolder Heated Seat Control | eBay

Or just the part you want to cut for like 60, new. Center Console for 2017 Subaru WRX | Subaru Parts Store


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

Good choice, that's exactly where I put mine! 

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Passenger grill done. Best one yet. 

I also started working on an amp mount template for that beauty down below.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

URC.3 mount printed. 😁


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Damn that looks sweet AF. I mounted my control in the same spot but didn't go fancy and just Velcro'd that sucker, LOL


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Damn that looks sweet AF. I mounted my control in the same spot but didn't go fancy and just Velcro'd that sucker, LOL


Ha! Thanks. Well I think I just needed an excuse to lock myself in my office (away from the wife and kids) for a while and CAD something else. I thought about just Velcro'ing onto the door, but I figured that as soon as I did that, I would need the diagram on the back of the door to replace a fuse. I'm sure there is a diagram in the owners manual, but why not design something else? 

I got a bunch more stuff in the mail. Between me and my wife online shopping, I am on a first-named basis with UPS and USPS. 🤣 I've got a bunch of pics so I'll probably do this in two posts.

I started my amp mounting project. I am not a big fan of drilling holes through body panels of cars. It just introduces the chance of rust no matter how well you think you sealed it. I immediately noticed that the WRX has two M6 bolts sticking up out of the floor under each seat. These are obviously used to mount optional equipment (HK audio upgrade maybe?) so I decided I wanted to use those somehow. I knew what I wanted to do in my head, but it took a bit of searching online before I found what I wanted. I found very sturdy offset brackets from McMaster (whom I love ordering stuff from). I went to my local hardware store and got some rubber washers, metal washers and flange nuts. I am pretty confident they are going to work perfectly. I plan on mounting the P Six MkII with the sides facing East/West instead of North/South because I don't want people kicking wires from the backseat and it leaves me more room to work on each side of the amp. The amp fits perfectly that way. Now I just have to cut my piece of 1/2" Starboard (HDPE). I plan on fastening the HDPE to the offset mounts that are attached to the factory bolts in the floor. I just need to figure out which direction I want the amp to face. Power and outputs on the passenger side or driver's side. I want it to be as easy as possible to plug the USB cord in and adjust gains if I have to. I'll probably do the initial setup/tune with the passenger seat out anyway.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Here are just pics of the Starboard, my NVX stuff from Sonic and some pics of my URC.3 mount(s) hot off the printer.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

As inexpensive as they are the NVX stuff is quite nicely built and of very good quality. Build is coming out really nice man. Those grilles are beautiful and an inspiration for mine! Just might end up printing out that Tweeter "pod" of yours somewhere down the line. And those bolts under the seat are used, at the very least, by OEM audio+ for their systems amp location. I think the hk amp is on the parcel shelf if I recall.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks man. Sonic offers a 10% military discount (I'm going on almost 18 years in the service) and since not many vendors do that, they got some of my business on that NVX stuff. I've got more to order from them because a lot of it is back-ordered. I am wondering if COVID is preventing them from getting stock. 40 sq ft of their 91 mil sound deadening for $90? Couldn't beat that.

Hmmm... then I don't know what those bolts are for, but they are perfect for mounting a board under there if you don't want to drill into metal.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I agree that's an excellent spot for the amps etc. And no, you really can't beat that deal, LOL. Thank you for your service man, at my Dealer we do the same for servicemen and first responders. We've done that for years. I am pretty darn sure everyone is having trouble getting stock due to Covid, and even more so since almost everything is made in China (unfortunately we don't make to much of anything anymore). I tried ordering a speaker polarity tester and nothing was less than a month away cuz it all comes from China also. I finally found one Newegg that will hopefully be here in 2 weeks. Keeping fingers crossed. LOL


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Regarding the grills; I may end up making spares. They are relatively cheap to make and despite the grill cloth being UV resistant I could see them fading. I try to religiously use a sunshade in my car all year round but it probably wouldn't hurt to have some spares. The grills are about $15 a piece on eBay and I have enough speaker cloth to probably make 30 more of them. I question the longevity of the 3M spray adhesive that I used in all weather conditions. Basically it's about an hour of my time to make a pair. I may make some templates for cutting the tweeter holes. I did them by eye and they came out decent, but not perfect. Each side was slightly different just because the tweeters are slightly off in position from one another, so it took some trimming/fitting/trimming to get them right and to make sure the tweeters weren't being blocked at all. Let me know if you ever go down the same route.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Check these out from another thread started by opekone. Might be useful for ease of cutting etc. I plan this weekend to be able to spend some time messing with crossovers etc in my active 3 way setup. Currently running passive 2 way and happy with how is sounding for the most part. Just can't get the 3 way sounding with a damn so far.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Check these out from another thread started by opekone. Might be useful for ease of cutting etc. I plan this weekend to be able to spend some time messing with crossovers etc in my active 3 way setup. Currently running passive 2 way and happy with how is sounding for the most part. Just can't get the 3 way sounding with a damn so far.


Yep. I saw those, but from my own experience, less is more. The grills get way too flimsy the more material you remove from them, hence why I trimmed minimally; just enough to get around the diameter of the driver. This way, the grill cloth has more surface area to adhere to and it is easier to stretch it so it remains taut over the holes. Grill cloth is generally stretchy material (in one direction anyway). So I stretched it from top to bottom rather than left to right. Unfortunately, I don't see a way around taking the time for a precise cut when it comes to the holes. It'd actually help me to get some jigs made to the exact diameter, maybe CNC'd aluminum so I could use them with my Rotozip tool to just "zip" around the inside of the jig in one shot. Right now, I use a CNC bit with a Dremel flex-shaft, which takes a steady hand and some finesse.

I did notice this morning that the grill cloth on my passenger side grill has separated a bit from the plastic, so I obviously didn't use enough adhesive. Grrrrrrrrr!!! I smoothed it back down, but I noticed when I went to grab lunch it had separated again. The driver's side is fine. Well, I will fix it eventually. I will focus on the rest of the install and come back to it. I will probably need to remove the cloth and redo it. It'll be fun because I have already hot glued the edges around the underside, so it's going to be a pain in the arse.


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

I found that no matter how much adhesive you use, it'll eventually start peeling. Unless there's something out there that's much stronger than the few adhesives I've used. I was able to find a way around that issue with a breathable dash mat that I "modded." Lol

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

beerdrnkr said:


> I found that no matter how much adhesive you use, it'll eventually start peeling. Unless there's something out there that's much stronger than the few adhesives I've used. I was able to find a way around that issue with a breathable dash mat that I "modded." Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


You use the standard issue weldwood?

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

I used some 3M adhesives. I've done about 3 or 4 different iterations of the grille modifications, I don't remember the other adhesives I've tried but with the heat they would eventually start to peel. 

I have a dash mat where I cut the foam in the area of the grille out so it's just a very thin top layer left and glued that the grilles. It helped with not allowing the dash mat to move around, no Velcro needed which also always ended up peeling and causing a sticky mess, and I can still easily pop the grilles out when needed.









Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I have been using 3M Super 77. Like I said, the driver's side seems to be holding up. It has been 80+ degrees here the past few days, so interior temps are probably easily in the high 90's, if not 100's. If I do another set of spares, I may use the 3M "Super Trim Adhesive 08090". Not sure if this formula is any different than Super 77, but it appears to be a more durable adhesive for vehicular applications. For now, I am going to move on to other areas of the install. I am still waiting on my Mosconi Pico 1. I ordered it from a vendor in Germany. I got a great deal on it or at least I think I did (wound up being $384 shipped DHL). 5.9" x 4.5" x 1.8" and 750 watts!

I think I'll start sound deadening the front doors and trunk before it gets too hot. I got 40 sq ft of NVX Stealth Black and butyl tape. I don't think I am going to bother sound deadening the rear doors because I have decided to not use the OE speaker for rear fill, but I did order some thermal acoustic insulation by Design Engineering (pic below). If you notice, this is the same exact stuff Subaru uses in the dash so I am going to use spray adhesive to attach this to the inside of the door cards. I will do this to all four doors and to the trunk panels.









Amazon.com: Design Engineering 050411 D-Mat Thermal Acoustic Insulation, 12mm Thick, 60" x 70" : Automotive


Buy Design Engineering 050411 D-Mat Thermal Acoustic Insulation, 12mm Thick, 60" x 70": Automotive - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Last thing on my list to buy is Techflex, heat shrink, wire ferrules and some random tools. I have been obsessing over which color Techflex to go with. LOL

Some random pics below. I did get my sacrificial wiring harness from ae64.com so I'll use that to run my high-levels to the P Six. The P Six has a pair of processed RCA outs that'll go to the Pico. I wish I had decided to go this way the first time, but fortunately I am not having an issue unloading the gear I had purchased.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Got the URC.3 mount in the mail today. 😁


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Damn that's nice!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Damn that's nice!


Thanks.

Off-topic, did you test for clipping out of the stock HU or are you just using 90% (or something else?)? Instructions for the Helix P Six say to use 90% to set gains. The stock HU goes to 40, so 90% would be 36.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I found that using the built in RTA in the AC D6.1200 when I raise the volume above say 28 or 29 there is no actual increase in output. Stays at that level all the way to 38 which is max on my stock head unit. It never lit up the MILC light nor did it roll off bass or treble etc. So I'm using 25 as the max.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Ok. I just picked up a cheap Oscilloscope on Amazon so I am going to use that to check the stock HU for clipping. The Helix has a built in clipping light to set the gains on the amp, so that should be easy.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

What do you think about using PLA instead of ABS for the enclosure material? I have a 3d printer too, been messing around with it lately. Love what you are doing here.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

"*ABS* has superior mechanical properties but is harder to print with compared to *PLA*. *PLA* is ideal for 3D prints where aesthetics are important. ... *ABS* is best suited for applications where strength, ductility, machinability and thermal stability are required. *ABS* is more prone to warping."

Honestly, I think you'd be OK with either. ABS is stronger and I don't think you'd have an issue with "warping" in applications that are mounted flat like a speaker adapter.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Cool. That was my guess as well. I really like your idea to fill the enclosures with water to check for leaks.

You know if ABS or PLA react to UV? I can just google as well i suppose.  

No need to reply, haha. Really like what you are doing. I might ask you for your STL files in the future, my wife has an Impreza as well  Definitely tuned in here.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Not sure about UV. Mine are covered by the grills so I don't have to worry about it, but I would think ABS would be fine in sunlight as long as it didn't get too hot. It does get soft once it gets up over 150+ degrees. 

I actually filled them with water to check the accuracy of my measurements and volume, but yes, it also shows whether they are leaking or not. Like I said, standard infill is 15%, which leaves a lot of air space in the print. The more infill, the more solid the part is. So for "prototypes" and fitting, using less infill will be cheaper and the part will serve its purpose, but once you are ready for the final product, 50+% infill will make the part strong (and it won't leak water).


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

One option for printing is to make the outer wall thicker. I printed a mug and discovered that it leaked. I made the walls thicker and it was much faster than increasing the infill. Just something for you to explore.


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

Frequentflyer said:


> . . . I did get my sacrificial wiring harness from ae64.com so I'll use that to run my high-levels to the P Six . . .


You aren't going to chop up that custom wiring harness form ae64.com are you? I bought the adaptor that just plugs into the headunit for my 2018. It was ~$10 and didn't waste the ae64 harness.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

nyquistrate said:


> You aren't going to chop up that custom wiring harness form ae64.com are you? I bought the adaptor that just plugs into the headunit for my 2018. It was ~$10 and didn't waste the ae64 harness.


I thought that was the whole point of the AE64 harness. I will need to at least tap off of the front and rear high level outputs. His website talks about cutting into his harness and everyone over at NASOIC talks about going with his harness. What harness did you use?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Oh and today I grabbed a killer open-box deal in Helix HEC BT for the P Six from Crutchfield for $99. Felt like I hit the lottery on that one.

I need to buy my sub enclosure (same one THX has), but Wicked is not answering any forms of communication by me (email, website contact form, and phone message), so I am thinking COVID has them tied up somehow.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

So I did some testing on the factory head unit today with my cheapo Amazon oscilloscope, which is a pretty neat device by the way (not bad for $40). 

I hooked it up to my left-front speaker leads and ran some 0 db 1,000 Hz sine through Bluetooth. When I get time, I am going to burn some test tones on a CD and test again to see if it differs, but for now, these are Bluetooth numbers. This HU goes from 0 to 40 on the volume scale.

35 out of 40:










36 out of 40:










37 out of 40 (clipping starts):










38 out of 40:










39 out of 40:










40 out of 40:










So it looks like I will use 35 as my ceiling. I could probably go to 36, but 35 sounds like a good round number and it keeps the P Six happy without having to move jumpers around (high level inputs at default jumper position 1 is 5-10v or 10-20v for position 2). I'll get a better idea if this will work when I set amp gains later. Voltage out of the stock HU goes from 5.27 to 10.14 Vrms from 35 to 40 on the volume scale (7.7 to 13.79 Vmax).


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

I am impressed by your investment in processing your signal through the factory radio.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

I signed up just because of this post!
I to am doing a frog setup in my WRX. 3 way no rear fill!

Gb15-gb25-gb60-gb12.

Here is what I have made so far!








2015+ Subaru WRX/STi Audiofrog Gb60 mount with OE AF grill by Getmtuned


Made this to work with the Audiofrog Gb60 in the doors. Using the OEM mount is sloppy IMO. This uses the correct angle and makes a clean install that protects your Gb60 and ensures a proper seal. Use foam backing on the mount and where speaker rests. 1/4 works perfect. Change the OEM plastic...




www.thingiverse.com












2015+ Subaru WRX/STI GB15 Tweeter mount. by Getmtuned


Using a high-quality tweeter calls for a heavy-duty mount. Made to sit center in the dash grill and sink it to allow the OEM cover panels to go into place. screws drop in for a clean smooth finish that allows you to do a layer of foam around tweeter to seal it. I printed .28 Layer height. SOLID...




www.thingiverse.com





Excited to follow. The hump in center of dash has made right front imaging a little tough. I am coming up with ideas to stick a GB40,GB25 somewhere around the center info display.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> I signed up just because of this post!
> I to am doing a frog setup in my WRX. 3 way no rear fill!
> 
> Gb15-gb25-gb60-gb12.


Cool. Glad my post may be of value to you. Anyway you may be able to unload those GB15's for a set of GB10's? The GB10's are known to work better in 3-way setups. The GB15's are better for 2-way. If you are going to want to do something similar to what I am doing with the tweeter/midrange up in the dash, the GB15 is going to be a tight squeeze and possibly not work. They are a pretty large tweeter.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Cool. Glad my post may be of value to you. Anyway you may be able to unload those GB15's for a set of GB10's? The GB10's are known to work better in 3-way setups. The GB15's are better for 2-way. If you are going to want to do something similar to what I am doing with the tweeter/midrange up in the dash, the GB15 is going to be a tight squeeze and possibly not work. They are a pretty large tweeter.


I have some GB10 as well, however for some ODD reason I 'PERSONALLY" do enjoy the GB15 sound and fill. 

Its been a challenging install so far, I've updated my above post to include my GB60 Mount. 

About 10 Hours into tuning and I think a center channel is probably the fix if you are really big into the image. I am running the Helix Eight Mk2.

Cool to see where the builds go, Also wicked has not replied to me about 12" sub box. Switching gears to rear deck mounted now.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I really hope Wicked isn't out of business! If i decide to get the other side down there line i would have to get a different manufacturer and have it look different. They really were helpful with all my questions in the past and am still super happy with the enclosure. Gonna upgrade the power to the sub though I think.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> I have some GB10 as well, however for some ODD reason I 'PERSONALLY" do enjoy the GB15 sound and fill.
> 
> Its been a challenging install so far, I've updated my above post to include my GB60 Mount.
> 
> ...


WOW! Nice GB60 mount. I just downloaded that file! I have been trying to design my own GB60 mount, but with the kids home, doing home-schooling and telecommuting, I haven't made a whole lot of progress. I bought a sheet of 1" thick HDPE to make my own GB60 mounts, but I wound up screwing them up last weekend. I didn't follow the old, "Measure twice / cut once" concept and realized I didn't cut them large enough, so I pretty much wasted 2/3 of a $45 sheet of HDPE. Oh well. That drove me to start a 3D printed design because I really like the way the stock mid-bass is angled (like your design). 

Were you going to put the GB15's in the dash location? What was your plan for a 3-way setup?

A center channel would totally change my equipment setup, so at this point it'd probably not be worth it to me. I will have to make due with what I have. There isn't a hole lot of room below that center dash trim with the A/C vents there. I did look into that a while ago and pretty much counted that option out and went with the P Six.

Have you printed those mounts out yet and test fit them? I just did a Treatstock cost estimate to print those and they're about $35 each at 50% infill ABS.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I don't think


THX0849 said:


> I really hope Wicked isn't out of business! If i decide to get the other side down there line i would have to get a different manufacturer and have it look different. They really were helpful with all my questions in the past and am still super happy with the enclosure. Gonna upgrade the power to the sub though I think.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I don't think they are out of business. Their message machine when I called them said they were only open by appointment. They are in NH, so I am sure they've been hit with COVID lock-down, but I know in a lot of states car audio shops were grouped into "essential" businesses. I don't know how they decided that, but I won't complain. I called them, emailed them and sent a message through their site. No answer yet. Ironically enough, when I found the Helix HEC BT on eBay (Open-box Crutchfield sale), I could not buy the item on eBay because it said they "this seller is away or on vacation" so I called them. The dude I spoke to at Crutchfield said they've been so busy that they had to shut down their eBay and Amazon sales because they couldn't handle it right now. I guess with everyone stuck home, they've decided to upgrade their audio systems! Luckily I was able to buy the part over the phone and get the deal.

I will try calling Wicked again today. Right now, I am about to go out and do some SPL measurements. I picked up that Audiocontrol SA-4100i we talked about. I did an eBay "make offer" deal for $20 off MSRP and the dude took my offer. I want to do a before and after sound deadening SPL test.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> WOW! Nice GB60 mount. I just downloaded that file! I have been trying to design my own GB60 mount, but with the kids home, doing home-schooling and telecommuting, I haven't made a whole lot of progress. I bought a sheet of 1" thick HDPE to make my own GB60 mounts, but I wound up screwing them up last weekend. I didn't follow the old, "Measure twice / cut once" concept and realized I didn't cut them large enough, so I pretty much wasted 2/3 of a $45 sheet of HDPE. Oh well. That drove me to start a 3D printed design because I really like the way the stock mid-bass is angled (like your design).
> 
> Were you going to put the GB15's in the dash location? What was your plan for a 3-way setup?
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about the HDPE mounts  I been down that road. In fact it took me 4 revisions of the Gb60 mount to get it working. That's the lowest I could make it while still squeezing in the bolt. ( I really did not want to slot it) I printed both with a single roll of 3D tech ABS for the final. Used PETG for mockup. I Printed solid using the settings on Thingiverse with no supports. Slicing it solid it showed me 158G using 1mm nozzle. I have them printed and installed... I'll see about getting the photos on here, It has been a while since I've used forums vs FB pages.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Any reason not to just drill out the filled holes for the tweeter? Sorry to revive, just what i've done in the past.




Frequentflyer said:


> Yep. I saw those, but from my own experience, less is more. The grills get way too flimsy the more material you remove from them, hence why I trimmed minimally; just enough to get around the diameter of the driver. This way, the grill cloth has more surface area to adhere to and it is easier to stretch it so it remains taut over the holes. Grill cloth is generally stretchy material (in one direction anyway). So I stretched it from top to bottom rather than left to right. Unfortunately, I don't see a way around taking the time for a precise cut when it comes to the holes. It'd actually help me to get some jigs made to the exact diameter, maybe CNC'd aluminum so I could use them with my Rotozip tool to just "zip" around the inside of the jig in one shot. Right now, I use a CNC bit with a Dremel flex-shaft, which takes a steady hand and some finesse.
> 
> I did notice this morning that the grill cloth on my passenger side grill has separated a bit from the plastic, so I obviously didn't use enough adhesive. Grrrrrrrrr!!! I smoothed it back down, but I noticed when I went to grab lunch it had separated again. The driver's side is fine. Well, I will fix it eventually. I will focus on the rest of the install and come back to it. I will probably need to remove the cloth and redo it. It'll be fun because I have already hot glued the edges around the underside, so it's going to be a pain in the arse.
> View attachment 269082
> View attachment 269083


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> Sorry to hear about the HDPE mounts  I been down that road. In fact it took me 4 revisions of the Gb60 mount to get it working. That's the lowest I could make it while still squeezing in the bolt. ( I really did not want to slot it) I printed both with a single roll of 3D tech ABS for the final. Used PETG for mockup. I Printed solid using the settings on Thingiverse with no supports. Slicing it solid it showed me 158G using 1mm nozzle. I have them printed and installed... I'll see about getting the photos on here, It has been a while since I've used forums vs FB pages.


Cool. I am very interested and seeing how these came out as I am still up in the air about how I want to mount my GP 60s. Did you have to trim any plastic away from the door panel?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> Any reason not to just drill out the filled holes for the tweeter? Sorry to revive, just what i've done in the past.


Sorry I'm not following you on that one.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Cool. I am very interested and seeing how these came out as I am still up in the air about how I want to mount my GP 60s. Did you have to trim any plastic away from the door panel?


Yes, Check out the notes on the stl file page!


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Sorry I'm not following you on that one.


The top of the oem tweeter mount is dimpled across. The dimples are drilled where oem tweeter is.

Instead of cutting a hole why not drill each of the dimples where tweeter now is? Hopefully that makes sense.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I read your description for the GB Mount. So you used the audiofrog grill underneath the factory Grill? Yeah I always wondered what that rectangular cutout was behind the factory Grill also and now that you mentioned it being a mounting surface for the Harman Kardon emblem you're probably right. The lengths they will go to put emblems on stuff!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> The top of the oem tweeter mount is dimpled across. The dimples are drilled where oem tweeter is.
> 
> Instead of cutting a hole why not drill each of the dimples where tweeter now is? Hopefully that makes sense.


Sorry, I'm still not following you on that one. This is what I did, which you may have seen already on the previous pages. Are you talking on the actual OE mid-range speaker itself? 

I would say the only way to get out "ahead" of the hump in the dash would be to play around with pillar or sail pods. I may do that in the future, but for now, I'm going to see how things come out using the dash corners.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

The Subaru OEM Tweeter cover has dimples, Where the OEM speaker is the dimples are drilled straight through. Where you added the tweeter and larger mid could you not just drill the dimples out and use without cloth? It always seems to turn brown over time is why I ask.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> I read your description for the GB Mount. So you used the audiofrog grill underneath the factory Grill? Yeah I always wondered what that rectangular cutout was behind the factory Grill also and now that you mentioned it being a mounting surface for the Harman Kardon emblem you're probably right. The lengths they will go to put emblems on stuff!


Yes, You don't have to use the OEM grill. I wanted something to be able to place the foam rings I'm using to seal to the door. So now I am not applying the tape to the top of the speaker but rather the AF grill and no chance of damaging the speaker during install of the door panel.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> The Subaru OEM Tweeter cover has dimples, Where the OEM speaker is the dimples are drilled straight through. Where you added the tweeter and larger mid could you not just drill the dimples out and use without cloth? It always seems to turn brown over time is why I ask.


I get what you're saying now. I suppose that'd work, yes. I had thought using speaker grill cloth would have improved SQ vs. the sound waves trying to pass through thick plastic. We'll see what kind of longevity this grill cloth has over time. It was advertised as "UV resistant", but I know how that goes. I will make sure I use a sun visor as much as I can. If they fade and get nasty, I will think of something else (maybe what you mentioned). They actually aren't very hard to cover. I just redid the passenger side grill because I didn't apply enough adhesive and it was lifting up. It took me about 30 minutes to take the old cloth off and recover it. I've got enough grill cloth to do that about 30 times.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

So I worked on one of my amp mounts today. It's not show-quality by any means, but it's functional and they're under the seats, so I wasn't going to get too fancy. Nothing is bolted down yet, but you get the idea from the pics. I drilled larger access holes to get to the 10mm bolts that hold it down and then bought plastic plugs to cover them up. I plan on drilling a few more holes and running the wires down underneath the mount. The carpeting has thick foam padding and gives a little, so I should be able to run them under the amp mount to make it look nice and clean.


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Looking awesome dude.. I've been a bit MIA on forums.. got mine tunes and it hits hard!! That GB10D4 is no joke! Nor are the Mosconi Pro amps ... I did a cob job baffel as you know for my GB25s in thr dash.. wondering if you have the cad for the cup version. I saw the other files, yet i missed that on somehow? Did you post it? Also how much for a pair of those? Im without printer these days. 

Cheers


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

killadawg said:


> Looking awesome dude.. I've been a bit MIA on forums.. got mine tunes and it hits hard!! That GB10D4 is no joke! Nor are the Mosconi Pro amps ... I did a cob job baffel as you know for my GB25s in thr dash.. wondering if you have the cad for the cup version. I saw the other files, yet i missed that on somehow? Did you post it? Also how much for a pair of those? Im without printer these days.
> 
> Cheers


Yeah I have the CAD file. Message me an email address. It doesn't let me post those type of files here. They were somewhere around $15 each to print out of ABS.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> I signed up just because of this post!
> I to am doing a frog setup in my WRX. 3 way no rear fill!
> 
> Gb15-gb25-gb60-gb12.
> ...


I was looking at the center dash area today. I guess you could very well fit a GB25 in there. Not sure about a GB40, but definitely a 25. Not sure how it'd clean up the imaging any. That area does angle back a bit toward the windshield and then you've got the center display "hood" to deal with.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Not a bad video about tuning basics down below:


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Peter is the man. I want to know more about his secrets though 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I removed both front door panels today in preparation for sound deadening. I did some more scoping while I was there and then also started sound deadening the trunk. The results from scoping again:





































I got some strange results, but not sure it's of any significance. Time will tell I guess, but it seems as though the right side puts out slightly more power than the left between volume levels 20 and 35. This HU is weird in that from 0 to 25, there isn't a whole lot of volume change, but once you get between 30-35, there is a dramatic increase before clipping starts at 36. As you can see, voltage on both sides increases the most between 30-35 (about 4 volts), so this makes sense. The factory HU has fader/balance control _and_ also "Vocal Image Control". What's weird is that the default vocal image control setting is about 1/3 scale to the right. I centered it, but if I use the "Reset to Factory Setting" button, the vocal image control will reset back to 1/3 scale to the right. It does change the sound and I am not sure what it does differently than the balance control, but I can hear that it does something. In any event, I come more and more to the conclusion that while I will most likely use the OE front/rear high-level outputs to feed the P Six, my main source will most likely be HEC BT. Of course there is also optical. I'll need to explore my options.

I tested out both of my GB60's for the first time today by just hooking them up to the factory mid-bass signal. Wow! Even holding them in my hand with OE HU power, these things sound so much better than the OE speakers that are absolute trash. That's obviously to be expected, but I didn't think the difference of sound quality would have been that significant at 5-10 watts. Can't wait to hear them with 120 going to them!

Tomorrow I'll be rolling on more NVX 90 mil with my little "helper".


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Here's a worthwhile vid regarding OE speaker grills:


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Sound deadening treatment on the driver's side door is complete. Ugh, this is probably the most labor-intensive, unrewarding part of the install, but I know it is necessary. Between removing everything and prepping/cleaning the door, rolling deadening material (NVX "Premium Stealth Black" 91mil) on outer and inner door panels, treating the door card, Tesa taping, butyl rubber taping, etc. I think I spent about 6 hours on just on the driver's door. The passenger side should go quicker since I made templates out of cardboard that I can use on that side, but man... I look like I got into a fight with a cat!. 😾


























More NVX treatment and Tesa tape everywhere I could.


































An interesting product I bought is D-Mat by DEI. This stuff is pretty similar to what you see inside the Subaru dash, but it's a lot better. It has a really strong backer that you need to cut through with a good pair of scissors and the other side is like a thick poly-fill material. I am going to use this on the inside of the door card using a little bit of spray adhesive.


























Hopefully I can wrap the passenger side up tomorrow.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Your work on the doors will greatly pay off!
After some more work on the doors myself I was able to get mine sounding much better, the oem door panels are flimsy enough to vibrate and cancel some of the bass.

treating the back of door panel like I see you did here is what helped majorly with mine. Can’t wait until your post once you get it all fired up!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Mtuna said:


> Your work on the doors will greatly pay off!
> After some more work on the doors myself I was able to get mine sounding much better, the oem door panels are flimsy enough to vibrate and cancel some of the bass.
> 
> treating the back of door panel like I see you did here is what helped majorly with mine. Can’t wait until your post once you get it all fired up!


It was amazing the difference the sound deadening did to the doors. Knocking on the door skin with my knuckles before and after was like it was a completely different car! Even had to take a video of it! LOL  Definitely worth the time and effort. 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Look what came in from Germany today (almost a month after I ordered it):

































750 watts at 2-ohms and it fits in the palm of my hand! I am scratching my head a little bit from their funky proprietary wiring harness. It has 4 power and 4 ground wires that somehow need to be connected to 4 gauge power and ground wires. I may need to look for another distribution block or somehow solder them to the 4 gauge lines, although I don't think that is going to work very well. I'll have to search through the forums. I am sure there has been someone in the same situation.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I also started running wires for the GB10/25/60 setup, but then it started to rain (as well as being hot as hell today 🥵). Tried this little trick. Works like a charm with some dish soap:



















Techflex on everything (great prices on Ebay btw). That is two 16 gauge lines in one 3/8" Techflex for the GB10/25's and one 16 gauge line in 1/4" Techflex for the GB60's running down the door sill.










Inside the door for the GB60:


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

It's adorable!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

For the power and ground why not stick the 4 of them in tech flex and put a 4ga ferrule at the end and seal/secure with heat shrink? 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> For the power and ground why not stick the 4 of them in tech flex and put a 4ga ferrule at the end and seal/secure with heat shrink?
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I thought about that, but I really don't think the 4 of them are equivalent to 4 gauge wire. Probably more like 8 gauge, which is a bit surprising for a 750 watt amp (Helix uses 4 gauge). I may be able to get an 8 gauge ferrule, do what you mentioned and still use my distro blocks. I got these two (which will do 1/0 input and 4 or 8 gauge output):


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Minimal progress the last few days, but I got my new soldering iron in the mail the other day so I decided to start making some pigtails and prepping harnesses.










THX, I took your advice on this one for the Pico power harness and bundled them with 8 gauge ferrules. Came out nice.










This is one of the tweeter pigtails with a 68uF 100V Electrolytic Non-Polarized Crossover Capacitor soldered inline and some Amaas XT60's. I'll be doing similar pigtails for the GB25's and GB60's (without the capacitor of course).










Pico 1 input line mated to some female RCA's.










I also started on the rear deck. Sound deadener for and some butyl tape in the side seams for now, but it's going to get a layer of CCF on top of that and Tesa tape wherever I can put it since the rear decks in the WRX seem to be a major source of rattles (I really never had an issue with mine, yet). I tried sealing all of the holes that weren't being used for screws or plastic pins.



















Oh yeah the car looks like a disaster inside, but it's coming along. I am glad I kept my beater (2008 Mazdaspeed3 - you can see it through the back window. Clean and still going strong with 225k miles on it!).


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

By the way, if anyone needs a soldering kit, this one on Amazon is working great for me for $50. LONOVE Soldering Iron Station Kit - 60W Solder Station 194℉-896℉ Adjustable Temperature, LED Display, Sleep Function, C/F Switch, 2 Helping Hands, 5 Extra Solder Tips & 1 Solder Wire:Amazon:Home Improvement


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Look what came DHL from China today (my new primary source unit):


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

If or when i decide to re wire my car to upgrade the speaker wires, that's what i want them to look like! Nice job, looks fresh! Where are those ferrules on the tweeter harness going to go? Into the amp and then from the xt60 to the tweeter?

The rear deck does need a good bit of material to quiet it down. The cover itself is a bit hard to get the clips to line back up and clip, your helper might be useful with that by the way . Find some sort of thick (ish) foam to apply to the 3rd brake light where it meets up against the back glass. I used home door weatherstrip ccf for that and it killed all the noise that thing was making. With my small sub and relatively low power to it, it was rattling like crazy back there. Drove me nutsn thinking it was the deck when it was the light the whole time!

Which Fiio player is that? Was looking into one of those. Really make a difference?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> If or when i decide to re wire my car to upgrade the speaker wires, that's what i want them to look like! Nice job, looks fresh! Where are those ferrules on the tweeter harness going to go? Into the amp and then from the xt60 to the tweeter?
> 
> The rear deck does need a good bit of material to quiet it down. The cover itself is a bit hard to get the clips to line back up and clip, your helper might be useful with that by the way . Find some sort of thick (ish) foam to apply to the 3rd brake light where it meets up against the back glass. I used home door weatherstrip ccf for that and it killed all the noise that thing was making. With my small sub and relatively low power to it, it was rattling like crazy back there. Drove me nutsn thinking it was the deck when it was the light the whole time!
> 
> ...


So I got the ferrule kit with the crimper and forgot to crimp the ferrules before I took pics. They are crimped now. lol

Those tweeter ferrules are going into the tweeters themselves with the protection of the capacitors. Then they will plug into the rest of the speaker wire that goes to amp. Probably overkill to use the XT60's, but I saw you used them and I liked the idea of being able to quick disconnect wires if need be.

I've got 36 sqft of CCF so I will definitely use that on the rear deck and in the trunk. 

It is the X7 Mkii. Got a great deal on AliExpress. 48% off. Got it in a week from China... lol


Redirect Notice



I picked the X7 mkii because it was one of the most affordable DAP's that has optical output using mini-Toslink. I plan on running that right to the Helix P Six and will try to limit my OE HU usage to just BT phone usage. A lot of the newer DAP's are going to USB-C and/or Digital Coax. Optical has lost its popularity with most DAP's. The other one I was looking at is the iBasso DX150, but I decided on the Fiio. I would have went with a USB DAP, but I have the HEC BT module for the P Six and not the HEC USB. Optical gives me the option to use Toslink as my primary source, hook up to the OE HU's BT for phone usage and then also have a BT connection for the P Six for passengers to hook up to. My wife has her own music collection that she occassionally streams with BT if we are on a road trip.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I finished covering the rear deck in CCF today. I ended up going with Siless Liner sold on Amazon. Seems like good enough stuff to me, but what do I know? It's got really aggressive adhesive and once you've got it in place, there is no way to adjust it without damaging it. I would not want to be in the position where I needed to get this crap off!


















So I realized that one of the major sources of rattling is this damn thing (the center seat belt reel):










Now I Tesa taped the plastic "tub" this thing sits in all around and it's even got CCF sandwiched in between it and the deck. It used to sit very loose in it's opening and now it's nice and snug so it's not the actual tub that is rattling anymore. It's the mechanics inside the reel. There are a bunch of gears and locking mechanisms inside the reel that rattle a little bit when I pound on the rear deck with my fist. There is really nothing I can do about this and it leads me to believe all of the other seat belt reels in the car do the same thing since they're probably made by the same supplier. Good job Subaru! 🤬 Anyway, hopefully once I get everything back together and the sub going, it's not noticeable. I know I'm never going to get every last rattle out of the car. I'll just have to turn the volume up louder! 😁 

Here are some pics of one of the 3D printed GB60 mounts that "MTuna" designed. He's got a link in my build thread a few pages back. This came out pretty nice. I was going to go with custom cut HDPE mounts, but this is a lot easier and they fit perfectly. I am still waiting for the passenger side to get here from the printing service I used. They are angled similarly to the OE speakers.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Wow that's nice! Really factory/professional looking. How much you get charged for the printing? That seems doable for a decent price. I'm still waiting in the CarAV ones to come from China (hopefully by June 27). Ugh

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

They were about $75 shipped for both doors. Pricey, but I think worth it.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

That's actually not bad at all, custom designed and angled just like it should be. That's a decent deal in my book. 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Looks like I'm gonna have to get a printed set after all. Just got my shipment pushed back to end of July. If i can cancel, i will definitely be printing up Mtuna's speaker mounts. From what i was able to make out the GS and GB 60 both share the same mounting dimensions.









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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Tweets and mids all wired up and ready to go (or maybe no-where to go... yet). 










I wound up finding this "Kuda" mount after exhaustive searching online for a DAP mounting solution so I ordered it. It was a little pricey ($65), but man this thing a quality piece. I plan on incorporating a Proclip mount onto it to hold the Fiio.
























































I got a super-thin 6' optical cable I plan on sneaking up behind the mount. The only thing I don't like about the Fiio X7 is that the optical-out port is on the top of it and not the bottom, but I'm being anal-retentive. It'd make routing the cable a little cleaner, but I'll come up with something.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I got some work done on the sub amp today. 



















The 1/0 gauge power line will come in from the driver's side fender, down behind the kickpanel, up the door sill and end up at the fused distro next to the Pico 1. Power/Ground distro's are 1/0 in and 4/8 out. The Pico's power/ground harness is equivalent to 8 gauge and the P Six will get 4 gauge. I tried to keep it as clean as I could by running the harnesses run underneath the amp mount. I still have a few more things to do on this side. Power and ground from the distro's will run under the carpet (somewhere) to the P Six under the passenger seat. I still need to find a good main grounding point. There are a few bolts right near the A/C vents behind the Pico, so I may use one of those, but it's a tight fit to get 1/0 gauge wire with a ring terminal in there. 










I still have plenty of work to do. Tomorrow I will run wire to my 3-way's on the driver's side. The passenger side is pretty much ready to go. I also need to run my 9-wire, optical and sub wire. There's a little more work to do on the front door cards with the "D-Mat" and although I didn't deaden the rear doors, I will probably D-Mat the rear door cards as well.

Ice pop break!


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

Lego Star Wars!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I'll never forget my dad taking me to see Star Wars. Got in to the theater a bit early and caught the last few minutes of Logan's Run. I'll blame (thank) that moment for my love it sci-fi to this day. Must have seen Star Wars a couple thousand times by now, LOL. Long live the original versions!

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

More progress. Not a whole lot, but this stuff just takes a lot of time trying to do it "right" and whether that's actually happening or not is yet to be seen. 🤣 However, I am realizing there is a fine line between trying to take my time, getting it right and risk being killed by my wife for spending all my time in my car and "getting'r done". In any event, I will post the limited pics I took to show I haven't been sitting inside all day playing World of Warcraft or something.

All the Audiofrogs on the passenger side are wired up and ready to be connected to the P Six. A little bit of soldering and heat shrinking. I realized I am not a big fan of using ferrules for speaker connections. They get torn apart to easily and get stuck inside the terminal (ask me how I know). I had to do some surgery today, so I wound up just stripping and tinning the wires and pushed them into the terminals instead.

I used "MTuna's" 3D printed GB60 adapters and they're working out great. I am going to use NVX's speaker rings. You can see their foam base inside the door. I wound up mounting the 3D printed speaker adapters with stainless hex bolts, washers and nuts from the backside for a more secure mount. I also put some CCF under the adapter and used adhesive-backed speaker gasket foam on the back of the adapter for a double seal. I also used the speaker gasket foam on the front side of the adapter where the GB60 sits for a good seal there too.




























I also removed the OE HU, attached my "sacrificial harness", started running speaker wire to the driver's side, and also my 9-wire. I am using plenty of extra wire so there's a lot of slack in the lines just in case I every decide to move drivers (sail panel pods) or I end up ripping this system out to use in another car.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

There are a few posts about how finicky the Audio Frog tweeter connectors are, and i can attest to that. But the build is coming along really nicely. I hear you about the wife and taking time man, thankfully mines been very understanding and since she works from home and is working on her master's it works out. 


The time you're taking to make it right will definitely pay off. Very detailed and well thought out. Those speaker mounts look amazing, thanks Mtuna!

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I've been swamped with work lately and the hot weather has slowed me down a bit, but just a few updates.

I got my sub enclosure today from Wicked Audio. Looks great! I had them make it with no rear terminal cup so I will just drill a hole and run my own wire. I plan on using XT60's on the sub line anyway so I can easily remove it. This thing is built like a brick $hit-house! I was about to go out today and work some more, but I needed to mow the lawn before it rained.



















I used some Solder Seal connectors on my sacrificial OE wiring adapter to connect my speedwire.


















I ran the 1/0 from the battery to the distro block under the driver's seat.


















I finished the driver's side wiring for the Audiofrog components and got the driver's side GB60 in the door.










I picked a location for the fuse block (right side of fender sill up under the black trim). I felt like I need to use this hole to fasten it somehow and I needed another excuse for a 3D printed part, so off to the drawing boards I went. So far I have come up with this design. I will need to add a few more features to it. I plan on getting this printed out of ABS again, probably about 1/4" thick. I am going to use a plastic rivet to mount it to the hole with a bit of double stick tape to keep it stable.


















That is all for now.


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## justin30513 (May 2, 2018)

Heck yesssss.....I love this build and how you're simply "making" parts yourself. Yes, I understand that you're borrowing and sharing the files for the printed parts but that makes this even better! Reads like this make me proud to be back in car audio now.
That Pico made me look it up and OMG! The 8 channel dsp amplifier is the same size as the Pico 1! Yeah, it retails for $1600 but so? As long as you realize what you are getting for that price, it's a value in my opinion! It even has "center channel management"!
You could have an 8.1(ish) system, with a full blown DSP, ready to compete and hidden......IN YOUR FRIGGIN GLOVEBOX!
LOL


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

justin30513 said:


> Heck yesssss.....I love this build and how you're simply "making" parts yourself. Yes, I understand that you're borrowing and sharing the files for the printed parts but that makes this even better! Reads like this make me proud to be back in car audio now.
> That Pico made me look it up and OMG! The 8 channel dsp amplifier is the same size as the Pico 1! Yeah, it retails for $1600 but so? As long as you realize what you are getting for that price, it's a value in my opinion! It even has "center channel management"!
> You could have an 8.1(ish) system, with a full blown DSP, ready to compete and hidden......IN YOUR FRIGGIN GLOVEBOX!
> LOL


Thanks for the kind words.

3D printing has opened up a lot more options for the car audio world.

Yes, the Pico 1 is quite amazing. 750 watts and I can fit the damn thing in my hand. The only other amp I've seen with this type of footprint is the new RF's. I only paid about $375 for this thing shipped from Germany. I'd be willing to bet that DSP you're talking about can be purchased much cheaper online from an overseas vendor.

Here is my final design for the fuse block mount.










I hope to get some good work in this weekend. I will try to at least get the front stage up and running then I'll work on the trunk back in order and the sub enclosure in place. I've got an extra sheet of sound deadener I need figure out where I want to put. Don't want it to go to waste!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Taking a break for the day. I may go back out, but I got quite a bit done today and this is how it sits right now.










Driver's side amp is done. Main power line is ready to be hooked up to the battery as soon as I get my fuse block mount from the 3D printer.










Found a great place for my ground and got a nice set of beafy terminals from Stinger. 









This bolt that holds the E-brake bracket on was reading .003 on my ohmmeter, so I think it'll do fine. I used a little dielectric grease on it because it pretty much goes to the outside of the car when you screw it in.






























On to the other side, I started to make the final connections to the Helix P Six. Lots of extra speaker wire that I chose to just hide and not cut just in case I decide to pull this all out one day and reuse it.



















I also ran my control wire for the URC.3 and the optical line I'll be using for my Fiio X7. I have to figure out how I'm going to hook up the Helix Wifi controller. It needs +12v and ground (the orange and brown wires), so I have to figure out where I'm going to get that from. Not sure if I want to run two separate wires to it or tap off the amp.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Looks great! As always, love your attention to detail. Without posts like this I'd never know what it looked like.


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## rlme36 (Jun 23, 2020)

very clean work. Planning on a similar product list look forward to hearing your perspective once testing and tuning start


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

As I have finally started my install I have had a bit of a run through the WRX build logs on here to get a bit of inspiration and some enthusiasm. Catching up on your build I will say with no offence that I am not a fan of underseat installs at all; but your near OCD level of set out, installation, and just general skills are pretty phenomenal to see mate. I think a lot of times underseat installs wind up running out of room and look cramped for space; but your install looks like you have room to burn. That's a testament to fastidious planning...exceptional skills man


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

captainbuff said:


> As I have finally started my install I have had a bit of a run through the WRX build logs on here to get a bit of inspiration and some enthusiasm. Catching up on your build I will say with no offence that I am not a fan of underseat installs at all; but your near OCD level of set out, installation, and just general skills are pretty phenomenal to see mate. I think a lot of times underseat installs wind up running out of room and look cramped for space; but your install looks like you have room to burn. That's a testament to fastidious planning...exceptional skills man


Thanks! Yeah I would say that it would have definitely been easier to do an amp rack in the trunk in the spare tire well, but for some reason I was set on using under seat space. I thought about using the trunk, but I know I would have regretted that the minute I needed to pull the tire for a flat. How many times have I had to do that in my life? Probably once, but I know it'd have happened again if I had a bunch of audio equipment laying on top of the tire. Under seat space is quite large in this car, especially considering the small footprint of a lot of today's amps/DSP's. I am glad I changed courses early on by dumping the ARC 1200.6 / 1100.1 and DSP.3 setup and going with the P Six and the Pico. It saved me space and made the install simpler. 

One of my concerns was having "little feet" get under the front seats and stepping on things they shouldn't be stepping on. I wanted the amps input/outputs facing East/West. In the event feet get up under the seat, the only thing they can kick on the passenger side is the heat-sink of the P Six (which is built like a tank). The Pico is so small that I highly doubt anyone is going to get their feet far enough underneath there to get near it.

Don't let my wife see your "near OCD" comment. I get accused of being OCD by her all the time. It's probably what is taking me so long to finish this project, but I will admit there are a few things that didn't come out exactly the way I wanted. Fortunately, it's little stuff that hopefully won't have anything to do with the SQ.

My goal of keeping this thing relatively unmolested has been accomplished. I haven't drilled one hole in metal since I started this. Aside from cutting out some plastic in the dash speaker area to add the GB10's (I can still drop the factory midranges back in), I've used everything I've could that was already there. Of course I'm not really counting the sound deadening, but I can literally drop the OE speakers back into the car, plug them in, pull the OE HU harness extension out and the car is back to stock. If the SQ is not what I want it to be after tuning, I purposely ran extra speaker wire to do A-pillars or sail pods. 

I think I am going to power the WiFi controller off one of two REM outputs of the P Six. I imagine this will work fine. REM output is 12v, correct? The other one is being used to turn the Pico 1 on.


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> If the SQ is not what I want it to be after tuning, I purposely ran extra speaker wire to do A-pillars or sail pods.


🙃  🙃


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

More progress, but I only got to work on it a few hours. I will definitely be putting some hours into this week and hope to at least fire it up to see if everything is working.

So the P Six is done and ready to go. The WiFi controller is installed. I tried to contain my OCDness and limit myself to mounting it with 3M tape to the top of the Helix. Not fancy, but I had to justify spending time on some sort of mount to send to a 3D printer again, which just wasn't worth it. I had an idea in my head, but decided to go with this. I still have to attach the Bluetooth antenna on the right hand side.

Didn't want this coming loose under the carpet.










Done deal.










The ground wire for the WiFi controller has a ferrule on the end of it and I just sandwiched it underneath that factory ground bolt. The power wire goes to the second remote turn on output of the Helix. Hopefully that works.










I started putting interior panels back in place using Tesa Tape everywhere I could to reduce rattles and put the OE HU assembly, A/C vents and the glove compartment back in. It's starting to look like a car again. Seats will go in last after I give a good vacuuming.










I did some work on the passenger side door card. Took apart the switch assemblies and wrapped them with Tesa. They are quite loose from factory and I could see them being a source of rattles.



















I also found my battery terminal mounting solution, but I forgot to take a pic of it. Tomorrow my fuse block mount is supposed to come in the mail, so I'll get that installed sometime this weekend and she'll be ready to get fired up.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Drooling at the attention to detail man. Looking amazing! I never thought about the switches themselves being a source for noises, I'll be sure to address that when I go to put in the speaker adapters, got to get one printed still, LOL. Damn those ground lugs are sweet! Makes me wanna re do my ground . Might just change it anyways as i noticed the 0ga wire i recently got looks to be CCA "no bueno".

Looking forward to your continued detail oriented progress man! Cheers 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

These cars rattle all over the place so I figured I'd leave no source of rattling spared. I'm only going to have these panels off once.... I hope. 😅 Might as well put the effort in while they're off now instead of later.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I like the fact these cars are still out together in the older way of doing things. Many parts on modern cars are "one time use". At least this car can be taken apart she put back together really in easily and with plenty of room. I'll give you an example on the newer fusions to remove the rear tray you are supposed to remove the 2 "C" pillar panels, guess what they are "remove and discard"in the workshop manual. You can imagine how expensive that would get and quickly!. They may rattle a bit here and there but i love working on them.

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Look what came in the mail today!










Can't wait to get it in tomorrow. 










I know it may be hard to picture where this is going to go, but I'll take more pics once it's installed. I plan on mounting this using an existing hole in the body up underneath the cover on the driver's side of the engine bay. I'll be using one bolt and most likely a bit of 3M tape underneath it for some padding.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

More pics.










This will be held in place with one plastic pin and a piece of 3M tape.










I have to get some stainless screws to attach this to the above mount tomorrow when the hardware store opens up.










My solution to hooking up to the positive battery terminal.










Modded terminal cover.










I'm almost there. Tomorrow I'll be wrapping up the trunk, which basically consists of putting trim panels back in and installing the sub enclosure and I'll be ready to power it up!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I did my power wire at the same location but your lug with the heat shrink and tech flex is the detail mine is missing. Good to know that lug fits there as well. I had to re profile my ring terminal to fit 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Oh and I decided to not use my NVX speaker rings. They weren't big enough to fit around my GB60's and I wasn't going to stick them to the surrounds. I did however use the NVX egg crate foam base on the outer door panels. Instead I used these Stinger rings. They ended up fitting perfectly.









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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

It's alive!!!! But first... pics from today.

Fuse block mounted on it's 3D printed plate:




















I would have rather had the power wire go down the passenger side of the battery and hidded more, but it is what it is. It's definitely mounted securely to the top bolt.










On to the trunk for some finishing touches. I put some CCF under the trim that is located right behind the rear seats. It tends to be loose and rattle. It's nice an snug now.



















I finished off the sub line with an XT60 connector so I can disconnect it a little bit easier. I would still need to pull the sub to take the box out because it is mounted to a bolt coming off the side panel. You can see that 1/4-20 x 1-1/4" bolt in the next pic just about and to the right of where my sub line is zip tied. It goes through a hole I drilled in the enclosure and then gets secured with a washer/nut inside. I used stainless hardware just in case.










10" of Audiofrog goodness ready to be installed! So, I've been miscalculating my ohms this whole time due to my misunderstanding of Audiofrog's installation instructions. I had thought I was going to end up with 2-ohms load on the Pico with 750w. Looks like I'll be at 4-ohm and 500w instead. I am a little disappointed, but I guess I should have tracked down a GB10D4 instead of the D2. My only choices are 1-ohms and 4-ohms (switchable) and the Pico is not 1-ohms stable. I am not about to blow up my Italian amp... thanks, so 4-ohms it is. If I'm not happy with 500w, I'll try to pick up a D4 and unload my D2, but initial impressions of the system with no tuning tell me otherwise. It hits pretty hard as is and I guess it'll keep my Pico cooler that way.










I had a hell of a time mounting the sub. I ordered some Hurricane Nuts and 10-32 machine screws from PartsExpress, but I was impatient and bought some beefy wood screws today from Ace Hardware. To my dismay, they were some real crappy screws. Two of them snapped off while I was screwing them in. 🤬 I even pre-drilled holes. I ended up having to grind down the screws and twisting the sub 10 minutes to the right and using some drywall screws I had in my garage. They didn't snap and I don't think the sub is going anywhere. I don't plan on removing it anytime soon.










Before I re-screwed it. That is a JL speaker grill. Fits perfectly.










Sub installed. It fits like a glove and looks like it came with the car. It still leaves room for luggage!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

It was a hot one today... a local favorite of mine.










So other than re-installing the passenger side door card, the two front seats and then finishing up the URC.3 (which is hooked up, but not mounted) and my DAP mount, it is physically complete.

I connected the battery, started the car (which hasn't be run since I started this project) and while sitting in a nice cooled backseat, I realized none of the amps were on. 😏 I turned the car off and began to investigate. I got the multi-meter out and started checking power connections. The amps were both getting good power and I ultimately realized the remote wire was not measuring battery voltage when the ignition was on, but I measured battery voltage from the damn thing when I ran my 9-wire and it was good to go. I'm sitting there scratching my head and for some odd reason I decide to probe the REM Output of the Helix. I get 12.5v on one and 0v on the other. Of course, I'm like "WTF?!". I then proceed to slap my forehead realizing that I hooked the REM input line to the REM output of the Helix and the REM output line that goes to the Pico to the REM Input (they were reverses). Of course this wasn't a quick fix because I had to re-ferrule and re-heatshrink both lines (with me sweating and cursing the whole time). After I fixed that, the amps powered up.

I got the WiFi controller set up and was able to access the Helix fairly quickly. I worked on a setup file a while ago with inputs/outputs and crossover settings in demo mode while trying to get familiar with DSP Tool and fired up some XM radio. One by one, I unmuted each driver and had sound! Keep in mind, my input gains were cranked all the way CCW and I still have to set them another day, but at relatively low volume, it was a night and day different from the OE system (I should hope to hell it would!). I set up the HEC BT and played a song off Tidal. OMG!! 10+ times better than XM off the OE HU. I can't wait to hear it with my DAP/Optical.

That's all for today. I will try to finish the odds and ends and start tuning this week!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So happy you got it up and running brother!! That .10 must definitely feel good going down after all the hard work put into the system! Don't blame the Ace screws too much, I had a hell of a time with screwing into that box as well. Screws would seems to go in perfectly (pre-drilled of course) and then about 1/2 way in it simply would not screw down further! Ended up stripping a few drive heads in the process. If I ever get anal enough to remove that speaker again I will definitely change over to the threaded inserts instead. How did the FastRings turn out with the printed mounts? I mean since its basically at stock distance from the door did you have to cut a lot of the foam off? Any mods to the panel to get it to fit? At least now you can drive the car a bit mean while you tune it in man. Congrats, everything came out beautifully!


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Hey guys, I have a Subaru (Ascent) and an under seat amp install and I’ve been a bit intimidated to take out the passenger seat. I’m getting ready to redo my install and it would be AWESOME to have all that room with the seat out when doing the install.

Is taking out the seat a big deal? Is the process found in the manual? What’s the general process? What tools do I need? Any safety issues?

Thanks for your help!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> So happy you got it up and running brother!! That .10 must definitely feel good going down after all the hard work put into the system! Don't blame the Ace screws too much, I had a hell of a time with screwing into that box as well. Screws would seems to go in perfectly (pre-drilled of course) and then about 1/2 way in it simply would not screw down further! Ended up stripping a few drive heads in the process. If I ever get anal enough to remove that speaker again I will definitely change over to the threaded inserts instead. How did the FastRings turn out with the printed mounts? I mean since its basically at stock distance from the door did you have to cut a lot of the foam off? Any mods to the panel to get it to fit? At least now you can drive the car a bit mean while you tune it in man. Congrats, everything came out beautifully!


The Stinger rings fit perfectly (the largest one in the package). I did trim the plastic on the inside the door trim panel to make the inside of the speaker grill pretty much flat. I will take a pic of that tomorrow. I still have the passenger side panel off.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mauian said:


> Hey guys, I have a Subaru (Ascent) and an under seat amp install and I’ve been a bit intimidated to take out the passenger seat. I’m getting ready to redo my install and it would be AWESOME to have all that room with the seat out when doing the install.
> 
> Is taking out the seat a big deal? Is the process found in the manual? What’s the general process? What tools do I need? Any safety issues?
> 
> ...


Seats are pretty easy to remove. Usually just 4 bolts (14mm) and some electrical harnesses to disconnect for the airbags and seatbelt sensors. Hardest part is awkwardly lifting them out of the var without scratching anything.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Sweet. I can’t believe it’s that easy, but I’m glad it is. I’m sure not scratching anything is pretty tough though ;-)


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Everything is back together and the car is able to be driven again. I hope to get some tuning in tomorrow. Some random pics. Here's my DAP mounted. I forgot to take a pic without the DAP in the mount to show the Proclip I bought. This setup is going to work nicely. I was able to run the thin optical cable up the seam between the glove compartment frame and the radio/climate section of the dash. It fits in there snugly and will not move. I then ran it up behind the DAP mount.










My interim DAP cover.










A pic of a Helix from the rear seat (the front seat is still pulled forward about halfway).










THX, this is how much I cut off the door panels to accommodate MTuna's GB60 mounts.










Well that's about it. I'll probably snap a few more random pics, but the hard part (hopefully) is over. I'm going to fire up my UMIK-1 tomorrow and play around. I still need to run some 50hz 0db though it to set gains for on the Pico. There is no clip light so I'll hook my O-scope to it.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I was able to take the car to work today and get a good listen to the system. I was all smiles for my 40 min drive! It sounds great. One thing worth mentioning is that I don't hear a bit of buzzing or rattling from anywhere in the car. No system noise either. It is solid. I was terrified the thing was going to be buzzing and rattling everywhere having read that Subaru's are just crap when it comes to interior materials and sound deadening. Not the case at all. I am sure there's a little bit somewhere, but I can't hear it. I never did use the last piece of sound deadener. I figured I'd save it just in case I needed to focus on a specific area of concern later on.

One issue I've run into already that will need attention is the optical cable. I read not to spend a whole lot of money on an optical cable so I bought a cheapy $8 cable from Amazon. I liked it because it is really thin and was easy to route/hide in the car, but I noticed from day one that the mini-Toslink end of it that goes into the DAP doesn't fit as snug as I'd like it to. Today I heard some static while listening to some quieter acoustic songs and when I touched the cable near the DAP, it got worse. If I put downward pressure on the cable, it went away. I pulled the cable out and I can swear the tip of it is not perfectly smooth and polished so I think it's a POS and do believe you get what you pay for (to an extent) with optical cables. At this point, with the cash I laid down for all of the other components of this system, it probably doesn't make much sense not to drop $50-100 on a good cable for piece of mind.

When there's no static though, this thing sounds killer. If I can verify there is no static while the car is still, I may try tuning with the existing cable, but I don't really want to put much time into tuning if the quality of the signal is in question.

Another initial thought is that I _may_ move the URC.3. I like the location I chose when it comes to being stealthy, but I find it's a little awkward to reach down there to adjust the master volume when listening to either the HEC BT or Digital sources. I also foresee myself forgetting to stow the door every time I get out of the car and ripping it off its hinge with my knee (I did this today... LOL). More importantly and regardless of my joy even thinking about it, I foresee my wife not appreciating that she doesn't have a volume control within arm's reach of the passenger seat. 🙄 So... it may eventually get moved to a more "convenient" spot - little things that'll need to get refined...


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

I've had good luck with one of these cheapies but looks like enough bad reviews to maybe steer clear.









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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Did some auto-TA and EQ tuning today. I used the UMIK-1 90 degree calibration file numbers for the Helix RTA.

Front stage left:










Front stage right:










Main EQ:










Time Alignment (this looks like it didn't work correctly):










I didn't bother EQ'ing with the sub yet because I need to scope the Pico to set the gains. I had limited time today to fool around with it and I was sweating my ass off.

I ran a REW RTA for the whole system once I did the auto-EQ and included the sub without tuning. I'd say it doesn't look bad at all. How do I get target curves for individual drivers and overlay them on my RTA?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Well it's been a week or so since getting the system up and running. I finally cracked the code on REW RTA, EQ and even learned how to import filters into the Helix, which is super cool so I've been experimenting with that over the past two days or so. I tried using Helix's auto-tune features for Time Alignment and EQ. The auto Time Alignment feature did not work so well for me, so I used basic measurements. The Auto-EQ did work pretty well, but it still didn't do what manual tuning using REW can do. So the system sounds pretty good, to me, but I know it's not anywhere near expertly tuned. Preliminary measurements with REW are definitely showing that the tweeters and midranges are dominating the system in volume, so I definitely need to level-match them. I also think the windshield is causing some nasty peaks, mainly with the midranges, so I want to play with the crossover settings. I currently have them set from 300-4000, but I think the GB25's can play lower than that. Another issue I am seeing is that the midbasses aren't loud enough. I did a bunch of EQ tonight in REW and will load a new setup file in the AM. I'll try to do more measurements tomorrow and post some pics.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I have a feeling something may be pressing up against the rubber surrounds of my midbass, so I will probably put the door panels off this week to investigate. They are just weak with barely any low end punch. It doesn't seem like I can get any volume out of them, which is strange with 120 watts going to each of them. My tweeters and midrange's are dominating the system.

Left Midbass:









Right midbass:


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I responded on my thread but with the door panels off and playing music try covering whatever remaining hours you may have in the door. Made a huge difference for me. 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Well I've been working hard trying to get this thing flattened out. I suspect having the tweeters and the midranges firing into the windshield is giving me a lot of those peaks and dips. I may have to play around with different crossover points, but for now I'm using 65, 80-300, 300-3000 and 3000+. LR - 24db. I still haven't played around with my gains yet. The tweeters don't look half bad. I need a little more work on the midrange. They also don't fall off with the 24db/octave slope that I'd like them to. Again, probably reflection off the windshield. Tweeters and midrange need to come down in levels, right MR needs to come up a bit and the midbass need to come up a bit.











This was baseline, no EQ (without 1/6th smoothing).


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

It's getting there. I accidentally deleted the Left Midbass plot, so I'll have to redo that one, but this is individual driver plots I did tonight. For some reason, REW was giving me some weird filters on the left tweeter above 11k Hz (pulling lots of db up there, which explains that dip, but I added some back and will remeasure tomorrow.










I had dips between the midbass/midrange and midrange/tweeter until I reversed the polarity on the midranges and then it was flat across the board. I also reversed polarity on the subwoofer because I had about a 5db dip at the crossover point.










Other than that, I want to work on flattening out the midbass, but the driver's side is giving me a big dip (I guess that's common). I think I can get the passenger side flatter (again, I accidentally deleted that plot, but it was actually decent). I ended up changing up the crossovers a bit, which seemed to help things out a bit so now I am using 60, 80-400, 400-4000 and 4000+.

Other than that, the sub is booming, so I'm going to bring the gain down about 5db. I have my URC.3 set for Master Volume and Sub Volume, so I don't want to come down on the sub too much. I'm happy with the way it sounds. This is what it looked like yesterday with no EQ.










So far, if I had to do it over again, I would have probably gone with either a GB12 sub in the same type enclosure or another 10" on the other side with either another Pico to run it. The GB10D2 is musical, but at lower volumes, it has a hard time getting through the back seat. I am being picky though. Overall, I love the way it sounds and I guess it appears having tweeters and wide-bands up in the dash corners is not effecting my ability to get a decent tune. The soundstage is right at eye-level and the image is pretty much centered.

More to come...


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Some before and after measurements for the dash-mounted midrange drivers and tweeters.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Some of your issues are from the helix cross over playing below. I had to use my EQ to fix this. Andy originally pointed this out when I was having some issues.

Select the channel you are using and manually use the EQ to hit your target roll off.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> Some of your issues are from the helix cross over playing below. I had to use my EQ to fix this. Andy originally pointed this out when I was having some issues.
> 
> Select the channel you are using and manually use the EQ to hit your target roll off.


Are you talking about why it seems the responses are bleeding over the crossover points? I noticed this also. I wasn't sure if this was due to reflection or not. Doesn't seem like the Helix does a perfect job at filtering at the crossover points. In REW EQ I've been having to set the "match range" much wider than the crossover points to get them to rolloff the way they should. Of course this eats up parametric bands like crazy on some of the drivers.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Are you talking about why it seems the responses are bleeding over the crossover points? I noticed this also. I wasn't sure if this was due to reflection or not. Doesn't seem like the Helix does a perfect job at filtering at the crossover points. In REW EQ I've been having to set the "match range" much wider than the crossover points to get them to rolloff the way they should. Of course this eats up parametric bands like crazy on some of the drivers.


Exactly if you use rew and you set it below your cross over points it will have you eq them out.
odd that the crossover would not do it solely, or so I thought. I seen you had mentioned reflection. I thought the same so grabbed a speaker and moved in cabin and found it was not reflection in my case.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Good info. Why does one of the best DSP's in the world allow frequencies to past through it's crossover slopes? Is that a known issue here?


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Good info. Why does one of the best DSP's in the world allow frequencies to past through it's crossover slopes? Is that a known issue here?


I was afraid to post and get flamed. But using the EQ fixed it so just rolled with it.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Remind me where your target crossover point is?

At any rate, I think we’re talking about the difference between electrical crossover (that which is set in the DSP) and the acoustic crossover point.

The acoustic crossover point and slope (that which is measured with a microphone) are the only thing that matters. You can set your electrical crossover any way you like. Doesn’t have to be linkwitz Riley or 24 dB/octave. Electrically, you can do whatever you like as long as it gets you to your acoustic target. 

This occurs because of the acoustics of the environment. Certain frequencies get altered by the car environment so that it’s actually unusual (in my experience) that an electrical crossover point and slope measures perfectly in REW. 

It has nothing to do with the particular DSP. But a great DSP, which a helix is, has all sorts of tools to help you get that target acoustic crossover point and slope. 


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Different crossover types accomplish slightly different things. LR sacrifices phase alignment to get better frequency response. Bessel sacrifices frequency response to maintain phase alignment. Throwing EQ on top further adjusts phase response.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

opekone said:


> Different crossover types accomplish slightly different things. LR sacrifices phase alignment to get better frequency response. Bessel sacrifices frequency response to maintain phase alignment. Throwing EQ on top further adjusts phase response.



Opekone, you measure phase a lot which is awesome.

If you had two crossover slopes that when measured with a mic look exactly the same, would the phase of those curves be different if a LR filter was used versus some other crossover type? 

Let’s assume everything else is the same. The slopes are identical, the shape is identical, everything is the same, but LR and some EQ was used in one version and a Butterworth and some EQ was used in another. The effect on phase and frequency would be the same...no?

At least I think they would be as you’re starting with the same original signal and applying the overall same filters (in sum) to get the same end result acoustically. Right? Or am I wrong...


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

opekone said:


> Different crossover types accomplish slightly different things. LR sacrifices phase alignment to get better frequency response. Bessel sacrifices frequency response to maintain phase alignment. Throwing EQ on top further adjusts phase response.


Thank you for explaining!


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Mauian said:


> Opekone, you measure phase a lot which is awesome.
> 
> If you had two crossover slopes that when measured with a mic look exactly the same, would the phase of those curves be different if a LR filter was used versus some other crossover type?
> 
> ...


Does the impulse response look the same?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mauian said:


> Remind me where your target crossover point is?
> 
> At any rate, I think we’re talking about the difference between electrical crossover (that which is set in the DSP) and the acoustic crossover point.
> 
> ...


Crossover points are <--60, 80 - 400, 400 - 4000, 4000--->. 

A kind I've started over again today. I took new baseline measurements and then went through would I call another "round one" of REW EQ tuning. I will post some screenshots later tonight.

I was originally using 80 - 300, 300 - 3000, and 3000--->, but shifting everything to the right seemed like it was working a little better for me.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Holmz said:


> Does the impulse response look the same?


Are you asking if the IR is the same when two crossovers are set on the same driver but by different means (like LR Plus EQ vs Butterworth plus EQ) to achieve the same acoustic response? Hmmm, I would think it would be the same but I haven’t tried this. Is it?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Ok, here we go:

Left and Right Tweeters:










Left and Right Midrange










Left and Right Midbass










Subwoofer










Midrange and Tweeters










Midbass and Midrange










Whole system left and right:










Subwoofer and Midbass (Normal sub and reverse polarity Sub)










All drivers:










All drivers with summing:










I've definitely got some more work to do. I need to level match a bit and then flatten out some of those responses.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Mauian said:


> Are you asking if the IR is the same when two crossovers are set on the same driver but by different means (like LR Plus EQ vs Butterworth plus EQ) to achieve the same acoustic response? Hmmm, I would think it would be the same but I haven’t tried this. Is it?


Usually they are not.

Then the passband ripple and the steepness of the rolloff are tradoffs.
And different filter have different passband ripple.

I do not know if the passband ripple is causing the ripple in your response, but it looks more rippled than I would have imagined.
Maybe someone else smarter, or more experienced knows?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Here is a plot with JBL (Andy) individual driver overlays.










So I'm obviously not hitting all of my crossover points and I doubt I will ever get there with just EQ (mainly the right midrange and both of my midbasses). It takes a lot of 6dB boosting to move the slopes, so would you suggest changing crossover setting on individual drivers to get closer to target? For example, would moving my right midrange back to 320 - 3920 while keeping the left one 400 - 4000 be a better option? For the midbass, should I change my crossover pints from 80 to 70? I'm not quite sure that will help. I've read people rave that the GB60's are midbass monsters. Would not being able to reach target rolloff at 80Hz be an indication that I need a more rigid mounting solution for the driver? Aside from the top of the door where the window goes up and down (which gets sealed up when the door card goes back on), the door is pretty well sealed with sound deadener.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Changed sub and midbass crossover points to 63 and 85. Fooled around with reverse polarity on the sub. Seems to work well.










I also changed the right midbass lowpass crossover to 3920Hz and adjusted gains . I may go to 360 on the highpass next time. Seems to have matched rolloff a bit better. Now I just have to work on flattening them out a bit.


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## Mtuna (May 23, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Changed sub and midbass crossover points to 63 and 85. Fooled around with reverse polarity on the sub. Seems to work well.
> 
> View attachment 274918
> 
> ...


Have you tried the auto time alignment feature? I had to mess with the sub-phase. When I used auto time alignment It was fine the subs measured slightly more away, after that No need for any phase adjustments. 

Might be worth a shot.Record your info before trying.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mtuna said:


> Have you tried the auto time alignment feature? I had to mess with the sub-phase. When I used auto time alignment It was fine the subs measured slightly more away, after that No need for any phase adjustments.
> 
> Might be worth a shot.Record your info before trying.


I did try the auto-TA and it didn't seem to work for me.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I've been playing around a bit more with the Helix autoset function. I created my own individual driver curves and let it do its thing. I've been impressed with how good of a tune it'll give you in less than 30 minutes. I'm sure it'll never compete with parametric tuning, but it's not bad and actually sounds real good. The below plots were after Helix autoset with no parametric EQ. All 1/6th smoothing.

This is the entire system. Green is after I took 2 dB off the tweeters and midranges and added 1db to the midbass.










Entire system laid over individual driver measurements. Surprisingly good summation between the sub and midbass:










Left and right midbass:










This gets interesting. This is right side midbass and midrange before and after I reversed the polarity on the midrange:










Left and right side midbass/midrange before I reversed the polarity on the right midrange:










Left side drivers with sub:










Right side drivers with sub:










That's it for now. The autoset left a lot of EQ bands unused so I will use those to flatten out some of this peaks/dips with parametric EQ.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> I've been playing around a bit more with the Helix autoset function. I created my own individual driver curves and let it do its thing. I've been impressed with how good of a tune it'll give you in less than 30 minutes. I'm sure it'll never compete with parametric tuning, but it's not bad and actually sounds real good. The below plots were after Helix autoset with no parametric EQ. All 1/6th smoothing.
> 
> This is the entire system. Green is after I took 2 dB off the tweeters and midranges and added 1db to the midbass.
> 
> ...


Awesome. It’s amazingly satisfying to flip the polarity and see it sum so nicely. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Mauian said:


> Awesome. It’s amazingly satisfying to flip the polarity and see it sum so nicely.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely. There was actually a significant audible difference when I did it. Much more full sound in the midrange. The numbers don't lie. I was loosing 5-8db between 200-400 Hz because of it.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Just an update. I haven't been very happy with the output of the bass my GB10D2. Some songs sound amazing amazing and in others it's almost non-existent. I wound up picking up a GB12D4 and plan on putting that in at some point (whenever I can unload the enclosure and the GB10). I'll have to purchase a new enclosure for the 12 (or I guess I could possibly fabricate my own... now there's a thought!). I will try using the same Pico 1 amp at 500 watts, but if it still doesn't feel as strong as I'd like it, I'll have to go with another sub amp, which would most likely be a Fosgate T750X1BD. Apparently those little buggers put out nearly 1,000 watts at 2-ohm (grossly under-rated at 750). Until then I'll continue working on the tune.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

You know,I kinda hate to see this post. I feel the same at times myself, some songs the sub is nice and pronounced and others like its sorta not there. This is only a few songs here and there but definitely noticeable as I remember the song have more bass (or mid-bass) than I'm getting. I don't have a way to measure the enclosure properly until i get the Helix in but I'd definitely look into that. Thinking about it a bit I wonder if this is a result of enclosure itself?? I hope not, maybe its my mind playing tricks on me. Once i get the Helix in I can test it properly. I seem to recall on my thread that my previous REW measurements seemed ok in response though Maybe you could throw together an easy to build cube to test it out in a different enclosure. Maybe half a sheet of mdf or whatever would be a good investment before getting another enclosure? They're just so nice, out of the way and so stealth stock looking though!!


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## Blue_Horseshoe (May 14, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Just an update. I haven't been very happy with the output of the bass my GB10D2. Some songs sound amazing amazing and in others it's almost non-existent. I wound up picking up a GB12D4 and plan on putting that in at some point (whenever I can unload the enclosure and the GB10). I'll have to purchase a new enclosure for the 12 (or I guess I could possibly fabricate my own... now there's a thought!). I will try using the same Pico 1 amp at 500 watts, but if it still doesn't feel as strong as I'd like it, I'll have to go with another sub amp, which would most likely be a Fosgate T750X1BD. Apparently those little buggers put out nearly 1,000 watts at 2-ohm (grossly under-rated at 750). Until then I'll continue working on the tune.


You can just buy the X2 1100.1 back from me, we will just keep trading it back and forth until one of us actually uses it haha.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Blue_Horseshoe said:


> You can just buy the X2 1100.1 back from me, we will just keep trading it back and forth until one of us actually uses it haha.


Yeah unfortunately I am still have a limited footprint to work with.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Those small Fosgate amps are nice for their size and power output but they have fans that are really loud. If you are putting it under a front seat it may not be a good choice (it was too loud for me).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Could always get it from Crutchfield and try it out. Return it if it's too loud, they're customer service is really good to be honest. Also check out Williston audio labs for some of the small amps he's tested, usually mentions if it's got a fan etc.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

The wife and kids went on a play date and I was able to spend almost 3 hours in the car today. I am using a Half Whitledge house curve. I used one round of REW EQ and then manual "eye ball" tweaking after that. I am pretty happy with the results. There are a few areas I still need to work on, but this definitely has the system sounding the best yet. I did EQ the sub, but I still need to do a little more work on it and I want to work on the midbass/sub and midbass/midrange crossover points to see if I can get them to line up a little better. Crossover settings are <80, 80-350, 350-4000, 4000+. If I can't get the low end of the left midbass up a bit more I may need to drop the crossover setting to 70 instead of 80. I'm using reverse polarity on the left tweeter and right midbass, which seemed to fix some cancellation issues. I'll start playing with some Allpass filters instead of changing polarity after I fine tune the midbass and sub a bit more.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

My most recent tune on the midranges and tweeters. I am pretty happy with this. I spent quite a bit of time on this latest tune. I may tweak tonality a little bit more to get rid of some of the smaller peaks and dips in the combined responses. I will move on to the midbass and I will be replacing my 10" sub with a 12 soon.


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## Mauian (Jul 25, 2019)

Looks real nice at 1/12 smoothing. Nicely done


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Just an update to my build. I decided to dump the GB10D2 for a GB12D4. Due to a misunderstanding of the way the ohm switch worked on the side of the GB10, I initially decided on the GB10D2 because I thought it'd run 2-ohm, but after I got the sub and enclosure, I realized it'd do either 1-ohm or 4-ohm. Given that my Pico 1 is not stable at 1-ohm, my only option was to run it at 4-ohm (500 watts) vs. 750 watts at 2-ohm. I also discovered that at 1 cu. ft. volume, the Wicked Audio enclosure is a little big for the GB10, which according to AF's site, likes .6 cu. ft. Conveniently, the GB12 likes 1.0 cu. ft. I wound up finding a BNIB GB12D4 in the classifieds here (thanks for the heads up THX!), so I decided to jump on it. New sub and new enclosure later:





























I haven't tuned it yet, but I'm definitely getting what I want out of it. Significantly more output than the GB10 and a bit more depth.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Are you able to get some "up front" bass with it and tuning?


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## sbaldi412 (12 mo ago)

Like someone else mentioned, I joined this forum just to post about how great this build was. I just purchased a 21 WRX and can't wait to do something similar. Thanks for sharing!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

sbaldi412 said:


> Like someone else mentioned, I joined this forum just to post about how great this build was. I just purchased a 21 WRX and can't wait to do something similar. Thanks for sharing!


I haven't been in here a while. Been busy with "life", but thanks for the comments! The system is still going strong. I never got around to tuning the sub completely. I may get back into it. I have had no issues with the hardware.


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## Jln213 (Mar 5, 2020)

super cool, I am doing a full system in my 2015 I inherited from my gma with 6k miles on it.


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## Jln213 (Mar 5, 2020)

Jln213 said:


> View attachment 349477
> 
> super cool, I am doing a full system in my 2015 I inherited from my gma with 6k miles on it.
> View attachment 349478


Full soundskin treatment


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## Jln213 (Mar 5, 2020)

I am in the process of getting my old school Soundstream amps tuned up and will be running a 644 on each side and 3 10.0s on subs. But in the mean time I am running mmats sq4070, lm2025 hc, lm2125, and d100hc. Soundstream exacts 4 inch and 1 inch tweets in the dash and exact 6.5s in the doors. Switching to focal k2 powers 3 ways until all my ss stuff is back. With an audison bit one dsp and a pioneer 7200 nex.








This is a Pic halfway through the install. It's got complete soundskins isolating front to back as well as rings around the speaker.







I have also cleaned up that grills backside quite a bit. But it's all hidden. Can't see anything. Amps are in the spare tire well. When I started it, it was going to be my wife's daily and we have tripple a. No need for her to have a spare. Now.. It's mine and I guess I'll be calling for help if I need it... Subs are 2 soundstream spl 15s until I find a 3rd exact 12. Box is the same size for both setups.


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## Jln213 (Mar 5, 2020)




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## Jln213 (Mar 5, 2020)

beerdrnkr said:


> Nice work! I did the same exact thing in my WRX, however, it was with Dayton speakers. I felt that the tweeters in the a-pillars sounded better in the end. Might have just been the tweeters responsible. I also played with GB10s in the pillars and they sounded great. Check out my logs from my 2015 and 2018 WRX's if you have a chance. I've done a ton of setups with different positioning, hopefully it saves other people from having to cut their cars up a ton. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


How do i look up your work?


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## jeventur (5 mo ago)

Jln213 said:


> View attachment 349481


What are the midranges that you're using?


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