# Does installing fans in an amp make much of a difference in keeping an amp cool



## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had experience with installing an aftermarket fan or fans into an amplifier to help keep the amp cool. How did it work for you. Did it make much of a difference when driving the amp hard in the summer months. Also where is the best place to locate the fans for maximum cooling. You would think you would also want to install vents to let the heat out the fans were blowing out. Also should there be some type of adjustable temperature gauge,so when the gauge senses the temperature is getting too high.It kicks the fan on.,and when the amps aren't hot the fan or fans, never kicks on. Where would you safely hook up the fans,so as not to do any damage to the amplifier internals,and last but not least ,Will the fans kicking in,and shutting off,be able to be heard through your speakers,since it is wired into the amplifier.I am totally new to this. So this is why there are so many questions. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## tgotovac (Mar 25, 2014)

I probably wouldn't suggest installing fans INTO an amp if you dont know what you're doing. I personally installed a fan blowing onto one of my amps, just to move some air past the heat sink as I run my amps for long drives in the summers heat. Does it help? I'm not sure. No overheating and I've been running this amp for 3 years now so maybe it helps a bit. Only cost a few dollars for a 120mm pc fan and some wiring and a relay. Works pretty good I'd stay. Maybe try something like this first before you go opening up amps and sticking fans instead. The thought of doing that to my JL's makes me cringe.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, The cringing factor is what I was worried about. I'd hate to cut up my oldschool amps for only minimal difference.I was hoping to talk to someone here that has done this with many amplifiers with great success,and can do a fan or fans install job,Where it looks like the fans were there from the factory. When I look at pro audio amplifiers. 99% of the time they use cooling fans that kick on and off,and they already run cool since most of them are class D. So you'd think they definitely work or they wouldn't use them.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

dc fan can in theory introduce some noise if mounted too close to input section, in practice I never heard any.


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## Carlosrvhdz (Aug 26, 2013)

in my case I have one helix A6 and one helix A4 and after some hours of extreme use it¨s untouchable, the helix a6 once get in termal protection, y put 4 fans to each amplifier (2 inch fans) and it really!! helps, worth every cent,


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Just add a fan to circulate air over the heat sink. With our shops demo car you can control the temperature of the amplifiers with the speed of the fans, even. Apparently, although I find this hard to believe, they perform best at a specific temp, haha.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

That's the same problem I am having with my amplifiers. They are getting burning hot after driving them hard. I am still wanting to listen to more music,but always half to shut it down for fear for the amps.Do you have a picture of the amp and where the 4 fans are installed. Also did you cut vents or venting holes to let the heat out. Also with the 4 fans, are you now able to play the amp now without it getting even close to burning hot. How much did it cost to do this.Does it look factory. Thanks for all the replies so far.


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## Carlosrvhdz (Aug 26, 2013)

coomaster1 said:


> That's the same problem I am having with my amplifiers. They are getting burning hot after driving them hard. I am still wanting to listen to more music,but always half to shut it down for fear for the amps.Do you have a picture of the amp and where the 4 fans are installed. Also did you cut vents or venting holes to let the heat out. Also with the 4 fans, are you now able to play the amp now without it getting even close to burning hot. How much did it cost to do this.Does it look factory. Thanks for all the replies so far.


yes now i can pley with them to many ours, it get hot! but not that much, i will look for the pics, cost, uhmmm im from mexico and after some weeks looking for a cheap option i find some fans in 20 pesos(like 1 1/2 dollar) I buy 12 jaja The install was really easy, only need some cable and conect them to the relay (remote) , and no, no cuts....


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## Carlosrvhdz (Aug 26, 2013)

coomaster1 said:


> That's the same problem I am having with my amplifiers. They are getting burning hot after driving them hard. I am still wanting to listen to more music,but always half to shut it down for fear for the amps.Do you have a picture of the amp and where the 4 fans are installed. Also did you cut vents or venting holes to let the heat out. Also with the 4 fans, are you now able to play the amp now without it getting even close to burning hot. How much did it cost to do this.Does it look factory. Thanks for all the replies so far.


yes now i can pley with them to many ours, it get hot! but not that much, i will look for the pics, cost, uhmmm im from mexico and after some weeks looking for a cheap option i find some fans in 20 pesos(like 1 1/2 dollar) I buy 12 jaja The install was really easy, only need some cable and conect them to the relay (remote) , and no, no cuts....


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Just wondering how hot do you think is too hot? Hot to touch means nothing to amplifier.


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## Carlosrvhdz (Aug 26, 2013)

some pics, 

and i consider that too hot because the A6 used to get in thermal protection.... so if that is no hot, ok the helix is doing a bad work and is protecting with no sence.....


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

THermal protection must be triggered by incorrect load or defect, Hard to believe helix engineered amp that bad. either way additional cooling not going to hurt anything.
Hot to touch for many people means 90 degree F which is nothing. so is 120-140 which is normal for many designs.


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## Carlosrvhdz (Aug 26, 2013)

in fact you have some reason victor, the 6 channel is running as a 3 channel in bridged, so it is like if am running all the channels in 2 ohms load, but either with that the thermal prot. should not pass, but as you said, extra air is never bad.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> Just add a fan to circulate air over the heat sink. With our shops demo car you can control the temperature of the amplifiers with the speed of the fans, even. Apparently, although I find this hard to believe, they perform best at a specific temp, haha.


x 2, the heatsink is what carries heat from the internal components to the outside of the chassis where it can be dissipated, blowing air across the heatsink will allow it to dissipate more heat..
You could increase source voltage which will decrease required current flow and this will help to reduce temps, you could also switch to Class D amplifiers and further reduce heat and current draw but mounting fans inside an amplifier that didn't come with fans is probably not a good idea..
You could mount the amplifiers inside a vented amplifier rack with a fresh air inlet and forced ventilation but your best bet is to use a Crossflow fan to blow air across the heatsinks..
Google Search "12V Crossflow Fan"..


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, Thanks for the pics. It looks like you have the fans on the outside of the amplifier. My amp I want to cool is the alpine 3544. When I check out the next model up.The alpine 3545 amp. I has 2 fans that are in the amplifier.Blowing directly across the internal components. Do any of you guys installed fans internally like the alpine 3545 has. I'd prefer them like that,so you never see the fans. I'd rather keep things cooler,since excessive heat usually causes electrical problems over time ,if not adressed.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

I can see why the Alpine 3544/3545 needs fans, very minimal heat sink area, poor design on the part of Alpine..


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

It all depends on the design of the amplifier. Most amps won't benefit that much from internal fans, as most heat-producing components are mounted to the case, the largest heatsink. In this case the amp would most benefit from a fan blowing across the top, or wherever the case is finned or slotted (some amps have that along the sides of the case instead of on top). It's all about heat exchange, and heat exchange is all about surface area.

However, some components might be mounted to small heatsinks internally, in which case the amp would require internal fans.

Basically, you can't apply this across the board. At least when talking the most efficient location for a fan.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Must know our surrounding ambient temperature first. After know this, then only can decide to add another piece of junk or not.
Like if your ambient temperature is >30°C, it is useless basically.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, It sounds like a mixed bag,Some say yes to fans, some say no,Mabe I,ll try some fans over the heatsink. I think the ultimate now that I think of it ,would be to seal the trunk,and pipe some air conditioning back there. Has anybody did that,or is that a huge job. I'm just looking to keep the amps cool in the summer months ,So I can listen for hours at a time,instead of 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

coomaster1 said:


> Hi, It sounds like a mixed bag,Some say yes to fans, some say no,Mabe I,ll try some fans over the heatsink. I think the ultimate now that I think of it ,would be to seal the trunk,and pipe some air conditioning back there. Has anybody did that,or is that a huge job. I'm just looking to keep the amps cool in the summer months ,So I can listen for hours at a time,instead of 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour.


Regardless of your locale if you're unable to listen to the system for more than 30 to 45 minutes at a time then you have some serious heat issues causing thermal breakdown and eventually will cause catastrophic failure..

The excessive heating could be the result of a voltage drop causing increased current draw or out of spec components drawing more current than they should or just a poor chassis design from the beginning which looks like it could very well be the case with the Alpine chassis..

If the amplifier is severely overheating you have several options: 
Find out why and make repairs..
Increase source voltage and do a couple hail marys..
Toss it in the scrap pile..
Buy a modern amplifier with a proven design..

or..
You could remove the heatsink/s and fabricate a liquid cooling system for the transistors similar to what we use on CPU's, from an engineering standpoint it's very feasible but not very practical since it entails the use of waterblocks/manifolds/coolant lines/reservoir/radiator/waterpump and lot's of fabrication..

I think your best option is a new amplifier and a full-range Class D is probably best suited for your environment..


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

There could be more going on here... How is the amp installed? Is there ample air flow around it or is it contained in a small space? Are the power/ground cables the proper size for the expected current draw?

You are running a highly regarded class a/b amp but class a/b amps do need more care when installing. 

I wod run a/c to the trunk of you have heat issues. Nothing wrong with that, but if the tubing that you use is too thick then you'll loose lots of a/c pressure in the rest of the car. Deep sing on where you are that could make sitting in the car for more than 30-45 mins unbearable.

So in summary, I would not add fan. Most of these amps were designed by specialty engineers that weight cost/benefits of installing internals fans. When they decide that it's not needed them chances are if its iverheating then it's "environmental" not internal.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, I do have an issue right now,Where everything is good voltage wise,But when I watch my volt meter on my dash,after turning the volume up to 3/4 and up . I notice the volt meter gauge starts moving with the beat of the subwoofers. I have a direct ground that goes from the negative on the battery to a negative distribution block.,and the same for my power wires. I have a negative wire for two alpine 3544 amps for front and rear speakers,and another negative wire for the hifonics zues VIII amp for the 2 10 inch subwoofers. The subwoofers are only 300 watts max subs,and the zeus amp is almost turned all the way down,and never gets hot. It is always the alpine 3544 amps that get hot quickly when I run them over 1/2 volume. I'm probably asking too much of them.Since when I total up the needed rms watts of the front 3 way component speakers.It totals up, that I need 340 rms watts just to run them normally. Causing the alpine 3544 amp to work to the max all the time,just to normally run the speakers. Zero headroom. I was hoping a hifonics zeus VIII on the component speakers would eliminate this ,working to the max problem,But was never able to find anyone that used the zeus amp for that,and if the sound quality would be equal to the alpine 3544. I use high strand 4 gauge copper welding cable for all my runs. I run a large 200 amp alternator,with a 4 gauge going to it,another 4 gauge going to the block. I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have a dancing volt meter when when things get turned over 1/2 volume though. Mabe this has something to do with the alpine amps heating up,though the sub amp never gets hardly warm at all.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

coomaster1 said:


> .. I use high strand 4 gauge copper welding cable for all my runs.


I'm more than willing to bet there's your voltage drop and that's why the meters are bouncing and things are running hot..


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi,What would you recommend to stop this voltage drop,So I can confirm after fixing it. If the amps still run hot.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/179801-amplifier-air-temp.html

This will help a bit. If your set on using fans I think the simplest, easiest, and best way for amp cooling by way of a fan is fans set up in a push/pull configuration. One side sucking air in, the other side pushing it out.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

coomaster1 said:


> Hi,What would you recommend to stop this voltage drop,So I can confirm after fixing it. If the amps still run hot.


from what i gathered you are using a single 4 gauge circuit to power three amplifiers, that is not large enough..


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Theslaking said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/179801-amplifier-air-temp.html
> 
> This will help a bit. If your set on using fans I think the simplest, easiest, and best way for amp cooling by way of a fan is fans set up in a push/pull configuration. One side sucking air in, the other side pushing it out.


borrowing a page from automotive technology and cooling systems they found that a draw-through configuration was most efficient at dissipating heat, 1 fan or all fans one one side pulling air across the heat source was most effective at reducing temps..


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I thought getting a push/ pull with fans on opposite sides and opposite corners would work well. Fans directly across from each definitely would not be best. Who cares now anyway. He no longer seems interested in fans. I agree about prevention of heat is the best solution but he didn't ask how to prevent heat. He asked about using fans. Albeit in a different way.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

It sounds like after talking with a few of you guys.That I am most likely not using a big enough gauge of wire to my positive and negative distribution blocks. What size do you recommend. Each alpine 3544 amp has a 60 watt fuse. The hifonics zeus VIII has no fuse, But I'm willing to bet it would pull 80-100 amps. Also I may swap the alpine 3544 amps out for another 2 zeus VIII amps.But that's not a guarantee. I didn't think it could be the cause of the alpine amps getting hot.But after talking with you guys ,I will address that problem first with whatever size you figure is big enough to rid that problem,once and for all. If the amps are still running hot after that. I will add some fans to dissipate some of the heat. I like the idea of 2 fans pushing,and 2 fans pulling to get the heat out more quickly. Where should the fans be located. Can they all go on the inside. Thanks for all the help so far from everyone


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

once you figure out what the total wattage of the system will be we can address desired cable AWG..


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

The total rms wattage I'm running right now is 1200.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

coomaster1 said:


> The total rms wattage I'm running right now is 1200.


okay,..
1200 watts total power
14.4 source voltage 
Class AB topology = 50% efficiency or 1.5 
1200W / 14.4V = 83.3A x 1.5 = 125A

With 125 amp draw 2 gauge would be the smallest you should use..


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Ok,Thanks for working that out for me. I will future proof it,Just in case I add another bigger amp,and go with 1 gauge wire. If the amps are still getting pretty warm,I will experiment with the fans. Thanks


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