# Boss and Lanzar?



## Threehz (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm pretty new to the 12v world but I've been reading and researching everything I can for the last few weeks. I'd say I know all the basic of car audio but now I'm wanting to learn the nit and grit and what really defines quality when it comes to car/mobile audio.

So 

Boss and Lanzar both make some relatively cheap (price wise) car audio equipment and I'm wondering what exactly makes their cheaper products so much worse then say some "name brand" products? Also let's simply talk about speakers/woofers for now because amps etc have very different standards.

Because I've compared their speakers to other name brand speakers and via all their technical specifications and in almost every case they are the same quality if not better... I really just want to learn what defines a quality speaker I suppose.

Thank you!


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

You tend to get what you pay for. You have R&D and cost of manufacturing....cheap products spend less on one or both. That is not to say all their stuff is junk but it may not work like other things. Also note the lanzar opti is not bad stuff and costs more. Cheap speakers often don't sound as good or blow easier, but its a grab bag where a good brand kind of ensures you get something with a minimal level of quality. My pyle 15s work great for me, but they are spec for IB install I have, I don't beat them its mostly for SQ, and pair of 15s get little xmax at listening levels and most cheaper drivers have low distortion at low xmax. Big xmax is hard to make right, you will pay for that. Far as amps its more likely to run into electrical noises, break faster, bogus power ratings, and other quality issues like cheap controls/terminals. The stuff works usually, just not as well or not built to the quality of others. Any power rating not RMS is worthless, and a few cheap amps/speakers even RMS ratings are no good.

If you want cheap stuff that is fine, for an amp you can buy used of a better brand but some people want new. Just know it may not work as well, or for as many different uses, or might break faster, or it might be great you never know. I'm happy to use cheap stuff at certain times, like subs if you stay low xmax you don't need a super expensive sub plus the sub is that last thing you will hear if quality is lower. You can buy cheap home tweeters some of them work great. You have to be really picky with cheap stuff though or have a particular use for it. Now I would never buy a cheap processor or EQ, they often add noise into the system.


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## Threehz (Mar 3, 2011)

That is all very helpful and makes very much sense, especially lower quality construction wise.

So you're saying a bigger xmax is better, and xmax is pretty much how far a woofer can stretch before distorting?

And what physically would xmax define? For instance would a larger xmax mean a lower frequency response or just higher power handling?

Also is there a way to calculate xmax for a woofer because I don't think it's specified anywhere for mine. I have two 15" Lanzar MAXP154D's and they are there for SQ only. They are very cheap but the quality seems great and they have been working wonders for me, powered by a Boss NX2800.1 amp


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Okay... Where to begin... Companies like Boss, Pyle, Pyramid, [American] Legacy, etc...:

-Have crap for Xmax (linear excursion), Xmech (absolute maximum excursion) and Vd (volumetric displacement), so they can't push much air. With subwoofers, much like engines, there is no replacement for displacement. But you can't add a turbocharger to a subwoofer.

-Have crap for power handling. They have small coils that can't handle a lot of power.

-Have parts that were simply sourced as cheaply as possible, instead of sourced/designed to fit the application. They will have poor Cms linearity and even poor symmetry.

-Do not use shorting rings or other distortion-reducing techniques. They will distort. They will not sound good. This most likely includes a Lanzar MAXP154D.

-Will be built like crap. Could die at any time. Probably will have a voice coil that's not centered in the gap.


There is "sort of" a formula for calculating Xmax that takes various parameters about the coil and the motor into account. I say "sort of" because that formula sucks. Unfortunately I can't explain to you offhand all the reasons. So to find Xmax, you really need to measure it. There is no formula that truly takes all of the variables into account.


If you want super cheap, these are your friends:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-488 (Dayton DVC)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1118 (Peerless SLS)


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Threehz said:


> That is all very helpful and makes very much sense, especially lower quality construction wise.
> 
> So you're saying a bigger xmax is better, and xmax is pretty much how far a woofer can stretch before distorting?
> 
> ...


It is easy to make a cheap speaker, a little harder to make one that handles a lot of power (think pro sound), a LOT harder to make one with big xmax that does not distort a lot.

Xmax is just a driver that can push more air, not really different than having a larger cone. Larger cone area more or less equals larger xmax. Most people want the sound or output of an 18" sub in their car, but of course can't fit it. So you make a small sub where the cone can move further in/out to move more air.

The problem with xmax is the suspension pulls more on the cone at the ends of travel, and the voice coil goes out of the magnetic field of the magnets. Those two things change how the cone moves at the center of travel compared to the ends of travel at high output, and you have the mass of the cone moving further and faster you have to control. That is why around here they are always looking at the linearity of the sub, meaning it acts the same with the cone in or out as it does in the center. That will enable it to reproduce the musical signal properly. Well, this is pretty expensive to do and that is why the good subs with big xmax cost a lot more and have special motor technologies and all that. Cheaper subs that don't the voice coil (VC) might go right out of the field, or maybe the cone runs into the suspension, hard to say. I don't know how you check, about all you can do is put some power to it and see how far it moves, at some point more power will not make it move much more and that is your basic xmax. A good sub will tell you in the specs. A lot of drivers are listed here they have been tested.

What you will find with cheaper subs is they work ok if you don't max them out, as you do they don't work that well. Then again it is hardest to hear distortion in the sub ranges anyway so the causal user is not going to care as much. You get what you pay for, you just can't expect as much from a cheap sub and you can't compare it to something better. It is no different than buying a cheap car, it will get you to work but a BMW will do a lot of things better. You get the top of line BMW and it is fast too, just like buying a top of line sub from a well known maker of them. Or maybe you grind on steel all day, so you don't care about getting the inside of a Kia dirty to drive for work. It all depends on your use and what you want is what I am getting at. I've used some cheap subs and they work fine for lower power, I didn't have any build problems with them but not saying it can't happen.

Mid to lower priced amps and subs are a tight market, most of the time you do get what you pay for with a known company.


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## Threehz (Mar 3, 2011)

Alright that makes lots of sense and covers just about everything! Thank you all very much for the information.


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