# Linear Power?



## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

So we all know the legendary Ear Candy. The design and build quality of these old school pieces have made them some of the most collectible amps and processors in car audio history. So here's my question. LP is now shipping a new flagship model, the 2250. design and build quality are said to be even better than before. And honestly I have no reason to doubt that one bit. And another model is in the finishing stages of production testing. With LP back in the game with the same standards as before, just improved on, do you think the old school line will still hold its value on the used market? Or are the old school collectors of LP gear going to be selling off some classic gear in order to fetch some new stuff? 

I know there are long standing companies still in business today, i.e. Rockford. But it seems like I can pick up an old school punch 45 for around $50. Where as that same 45watts in LP gear is around $140. The real main difference I see is that RF is still producing quality products, and LP took a break from the industry. What do you think?


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Rockford produced more units than Linear Power over the years....they had more money behind them being part of Hafler Group so of course they're more available.

Supply/demand dictates price.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I for one will be picking up two of their new line amps. I can't imagine with technology being like it is, how much nicer these will be. Their website sucks but that won't stop me from lurching forward and buying these asap.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Long time LP user from the late 80's.

Three different vehicles, over a 10-year period.

Every system would shut-down. Never thought of it as a problem.

Dimming lights. Figured it was common.

Every system beat the hell out of my car/truck electrical system. I ran relays, upgraded electrical, extra batt, and all that good stuff. Figured it was the norm.

Only had one issue with a 1502IQ making noise, at the amp. All amps were bullet-proof, IMO.

My recent build is with JL series 1 slash amps. One class D 500/1, and two AB 300/2. Electrical system is stock. Alt is stock. All 4AWG.

I have no voltage drops, no light dimming, and no shut-down. SQ is fantastic.

It is, what it is.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I can't believe they (or about anyone) would build an amp today at all like the old LP. LP went out of biz what in the late 80s? So 30yr ago, are any of those people even still alive lol. Hard to say what they are up to. I know a master tech that built his own amp and it was awesome, expensive, and could not sell them. Today its all about cheap and marketing, but the electronics are better so you can get away with cheaper stuff too.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

GlasSman said:


> Rockford produced more units than Linear Power over the years....they had more money behind them being part of Hafler Group so of course they're more available.
> 
> Supply/demand dictates price.


Contrary to your statement there are only 2 punch 45's available on fleebay right now. I do agree with supply vs demand. But I also don't believe that RF manufactured that many more punch45 vs the LP452. RF was not the giant it is today back then. I was purchasing and installing back then. My theory is that with the continued product advancements there are better choices in the RF line than the old school 45's. This is not the case with LP. The only choices are the old school products. At any rate I only used RF as a reference to a company that was producing top of the line products back then, and continued to produce all the way up until present day. And never sold out to DEI. Like many others. I'm personally glad that LP never went down that road. Not glad the company closed, but happy with the end result that now the intellectual rights haven't been sold off and never to return. But instead the best brand in car audio I ever knew is back, and better than ever.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

zumbo said:


> Long time LP user from the late 80's.
> 
> Three different vehicles, over a 10-year period.
> 
> ...


I ran a massive system back then. 2-18's walled with all linear gear in hatchback. Only had a second battery. Other than an isolator for the second battery my electrical was stock. Never had a shut down, Didn't have much with the lights always dimming, and honestly didn't have a voltage meter on it 24/7 so never knew about that. What I can say is yes LP is bullet proof. And I seriously doubt that 500/1 will ever give you what you could get from a 5002. I have ran both amps, 5002 in that hatch back then, and did an install in a buddies car with a 500/1. Not even in the same class of car audio as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong, the JL is a fine amp. Just not close to a 5002 which is technically its direct competition. For the record I doubt the JL would hold up against a 2502. That's just my opinion. In this world its what ever works for you!


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Linear Power 5002 is 565W, bridged @4ohm on 2ohm taps.

If you bridge a 4ohm load on a 5002 on 4ohm taps, which is what people in my circle did, you would get 1100W. This is clearly stated on LP website.

The JL 500/1 is a mono amp. It does 500W.

The LP is twice as powerful.

IMO, that is not a direct competitor.

A 2202IQ has a 500W peak. Damping factor for the 2202 bridged @4ohm on 4ohm taps is 105. The JL damping factor is 500 for a 4ohm load, and no dimming, or heat.

http://www.linearpower.com/detail/5002iq.html

http://www.linearpower.com/detail/2202.html

*EDIT*
The 5002IQ was also $1200 in 1991. That should clearly inform that it is, or would not be a direct competitor.
http://www.linearpower.com/manuals/5002IQ.pdf

What cost $1200 in 1991 would cost $2024.80 in 2012.
http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

That's enough to buy (2) JL Slash 1000/1
http://www.jlaudio.com/1000-1v2-car-audio-slash-v2-amplifiers-98086


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

oh I absolutely agree, the 500/1 is not a competitor to the 5002. but both are marketed as a 500watt amp. just because jl didnt bring their A-game to the party doesnt mean they deserve a break. jl could have designed a 2ohm-4ohm tap system. but they didnt. and of course it gets hot, it draws massive amounts of current. 

by your last post you really just made my point. thanks ;-)

seriously though, the jl gear is good. just not linear quality good.


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## diatribe (Aug 11, 2008)

Once I start hearing reviews on the new LP, they may make it into my next build. Right now the company just doesn't seem as though they have their act together. Maybe it's just the website, but something doesn't feel right.

I used to lust after Linear Power amplifiers in the 90's. Unfortunately I was just a poor student and couldn't afford them.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

sqshoestring said:


> I can't believe they (or about anyone) would build an amp today at all like the old LP. LP went out of biz what in the late 80s? So 30yr ago, are any of those people even still alive lol. Hard to say what they are up to. I know a master tech that built his own amp and it was awesome, expensive, and could not sell them. Today its all about cheap and marketing, but the electronics are better so you can get away with cheaper stuff too.


They went out of business around 2004.....so by you saying in the late 80's is simply a silly useless statement.

Incase you didn't know Jeri McCord was the guy who designed the 5002's for LP and probaly others that he didn't mentioned to me. He also was part of the group that designed my favorite subwoofer...the Stroker (the first and original). 


He is back again with Ray designing the new LP's that just started shipping out a few weeks ago. If anyone seen the improvements between the old and new, you'll see how much work is put into these things. 

They made the heatsink MUCH MORE THICKER (no more bent/broken corners or fins), output transistors are still "Motorola/ON". I wish I knew more about them but I simply cannot afford dropping 2 grand on a 500watt amp. To me is like dropping 160.00 for some Jordan's......ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.


That being said, am more than sure those amps are well built...after all they did test them (the prototypes) for 2years, and made improvements in that time frame.


Goodluck to LinearPower, hope they do make it but it just seems like the economy won't let many spend that type of money on car audio equipment. Dont get me wrong I wouldn't hesitate to get one of these over that crappy CriticalMass amplifiers, lol.



PS: I was lucky enough to visit Jeri's home, and see in person these amps being put togheter by Ray, Jeri and others. This was a little over a year ago.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

I just spoke with them today. They are hand building these as we speak this weekend. This is a small operation and you wont see quality control like this anywhere else. Small batches and tested by the people who build them. Dont judge the brand by their website. That site has been primarily for a repair service for years now. Not the sale and promotion of new production. Ill post up the details I got on the 2250 today.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

"The first 2250's will ship in the next few weeks, everything we currently are producing is already sold out. We will start assembly of the 2150 in about 2 weeks, it will ship in 4 or 5 weeks.

The 2075 will be last.

The LP2250 retails for a MSRP of 1799.00-1949.00.

The LP2150 1199.00-1349.00

The LP2075 999.00-1149.00

These are rated very conservatively at 12.8 volts at 50hz RMS power, the power bandwidth is from 10 Hz to 228khz and the overall frequency response is from 4 Hz to 400khz.

These are built better for SQ than anything we built in the past and are many times stronger for power especially at low frequency. The amp makes right at full power as low as 10 Hz. Damping factor, headroom, and slew rate are out the roof.

Sent from my iPhone"
Like i said before. I have no reason to doubt any of this. This is not a new version of the company. Its a new venture by the company. And this company has already proven its worth as far as im concerned. 

Were actually pretty far off topic here though. Refer to my original question. I didnt want this to turn into a how good do you think the new LP gear will be thread.



Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I believe your question is regarding the value of the old (original) Linear Powers? If so, I dont think they'll loose much value. When I first started bying LP's I was getting them pretty cheap and saw a few floating around the web real cheap (this was way before any new amps where mentioned or thought of). Then I saw more and more people looking for them and paying good money, thats when I saw the 5002's going for 400-600 bucks, then last year in my opinion they start asking for more on the 5002's (600 and up, even on ebay a few 5002's ended around 800 bucks or more).


I sold all my LP's for many reasons (I wont get into right now), sold them real cheap if you ask me. I had a Q50 and a modded 5002 and only was able to get 1200.00 FOR BOTH (some lucky bastard got a good deal).


So regarding your "value" question, I dont believe they'll loose value. Simply because there are a lot of people that still want the originals/old ones.


I am still amazed on the power output of the 1501, 2002, 2202IQ can put out. For them to be 220watts or less....they sure put out some seriuos power (notice how I mentioned some very old LP's, the 2502IQ will put all three to shame when compared to it, then ofcourse you have the bigger guns like the 5002IQ, 8002SW, 3.2HV and the all mighty 4.1HV).



I wonder how the LP2250 will compare, powerwise, to the 4.1HV. I've read on the "Linear Power's" forums that it can put out as much power as the 8002SW (and can't be compared when measuring output at 10hz).


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

for2nato said:


> oh I absolutely agree, the 500/1 is not a competitor to the 5002. but both are marketed as a 500watt amp. just because jl didnt bring their A-game to the party doesnt mean they deserve a break. jl could have designed a 2ohm-4ohm tap system. but they didnt. and of course it gets hot, it draws massive amounts of current.
> 
> by your last post you really just made my point. thanks ;-)
> 
> seriously though, the jl gear is good. just not linear quality good.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

for2nato said:


> oh I absolutely agree, the 500/1 is not a competitor to the 5002. but both are marketed as a 500watt amp. just because jl didnt bring their A-game to the party doesnt mean they deserve a break.* jl could have designed a 2ohm-4ohm tap system*. but they didnt. and of course it gets hot, it draws massive amounts of current.
> 
> by your last post you really just made my point. thanks ;-)
> 
> seriously though, the jl gear is good. just not linear quality good.


WHAT??? I guess you dont know how LP's work and how the JL RIPS system works.

They are there to control the voltage on the rail's, that way you get the same power rating at any impendance (1.5ohm-4ohm stereo or 3ohm-8ohm mono). So by you stating that JL could of or should of used the "TAPS" system is plain silly and again.....useless.

Do you know what your amp does when you switch the TAPS from 4-ohms to 2-ohms on your or on most LP's with the taps system????? It lowers the voltage on the rail, thats why you dont see a "DOUBLE" in power on the LP's when you go from 4-ohm to 2-ohms their pretty darn close on the output power.


For example, the 5002 puts out 250watt x 2 @ 4-ohm stereo or 565watts x 1 @ 4-ohms. Thats the same as stating that at 2-ohms stereo it will put out 282.5watts STEREO which is the same as 4-ohm mono. I just dont understand why people keep stating that LP's make DOUBLE or more power at LOWER IMPENDANCE WHEN THEY DONT!!!!

Their not made for lower impendance, their made for 4-ohm stereo (or higher). YES they will accept 2-ohm stereo BUT YOU HAVE TO MOVE THE TAPS - to lower the rail voltage.



Do a little research or ask the man himself before posting non-sense statements.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

^^^
At this point, I figured it was a useless argument.

Thought about throwing in the argument of parametric eq, remote bass, onboard x-over, and etc. But, what's the point?


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Man i feel like i keep getting roped into this. 
What happens if you leave the taps on 4ohm and run 2ohm stereo...... i.e. maximum output as reported in the spec sheets on LPs site. I understand how they work. And why they are there. 
The previous argument puts the 5002 right back in the "direct competition" range with the 500/1. Which it kills. 

I kinda think the new LP gear is going to make the older products more desireable. The prices of the new gear are going to automatically eliminate a whole section of customers who would run the gear, but cant afford too. Which leaves the market on the older gear. Kinda like a LP revival!

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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

for2nato said:


> Man i feel like i keep getting roped into this.
> *What happens if you leave the taps on 4ohm and run 2ohm stereo...... *i.e. maximum output as reported in the spec sheets on LPs site. I understand how they work. And why they are there.
> The previous argument puts the 5002 right back in the "direct competition" range with the 500/1. Which it kills.
> 
> ...


IT VOIDS THE WARRANTEE!!! DUHHH, dont believe me? Ask Ray @ TIPS just dont ask him in a serious tone, lol. Have you read any of the LP owners manuals???? It clearly states NOT TO DO what you just stated in the second sentence. Only an idiot would try it...."hey what if I leave the taps at 4-ohms and connect 2-ohm speakers that way the rail voltage is at its highest and I'll get double the power rating!" = WRONG, WILL BRING OUT THE MAGIC SMOKE OUT OF THEM.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

I understand the warranty. I also know how i ran that gear for 5 years and never had a single issue, back when it was still being made. It also voids the warranty to simply open an amp up. Yet theres a whole website and database devoted to voided warranties. We really dont need to argue this any more. Its a mute point and off topic. 
Thanks for the input.

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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> Only an idiot would try it...."hey what if I leave the taps at 4-ohms and connect 2-ohm speakers that way the rail voltage is at its highest and I'll get double the power rating!" = WRONG, WILL BRING OUT THE MAGIC SMOKE OUT OF THEM.


Actually, it's what my local LP dealer of the day recommended users to do. Bridge a 4ohm load on the amps to get their full power, while on 4ohm taps. Equal to 2ohm stereo.

Never hurt ANY of my amps doing so, but killed the auto electrics, as mentioned within. In that day(late 80's), I didn't know I was also halving the damping factor. 

The simple fact is, a JL 1000/1 is the direct competitor of the LP 5002. Smoke can be blown, but it is what it is.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

If that is all true they should be a good high end amp, then I guess you would need to compare them to current equipment at that price range. I ran a lot of the 02 series and they were rock solid amps at the time. Ran some punch 45/75/150s they were good also as were the Soundstreams. I installed the first (new) 5002 I ever saw in about 1987(?). The 2002 was a great amp and could do many things well. I'd still use an SS on highs for SQ. I like LPs, but amps are not high on my long list of priorities today or finances. I can find other amps that will do what I need, which isn't all that much compared to others here lol. It takes me a year to get a system in my car, a simple system.

Yeah I should have looked when they went out of biz. The places where I was at stopped carrying them by the early 90s. A whole lot of the business fell apart then and I was doing other things.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Right on!


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

I have the LP2150 (passive BCA 6.5" Component set) and the LP2250 (4 BCA 10s Isoberic) in my truck at this time ... 
These will be flipped around soon for testing purposes ... Yes, the LP2250 on a BCA passive 6.5" component set ... 
Simply AMAZING amplifiers ... 

You can see a sneak peak of them on this vid at about 3.56 minutes ... 
I missed BriantheCEO at Scrapin the Coast for another vid shoot, but I will catch him at another Event soon !!! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEsUzAradEM&feature=plcp
Pics will be availiable soon guys ...


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

zumbo said:


> Right on!


Where do you live in Mississippi ?? Would you like a Demo ??


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

for2nato said:


> "The first 2250's will ship in the next few weeks, everything we currently are producing is already sold out. We will start assembly of the 2150 in about 2 weeks, it will ship in 4 or 5 weeks.
> 
> The 2075 will be last.
> 
> ...


Those prices are outlandish and the specs are rediculous.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Cablguy184 said:


> Where do you live in Mississippi ?? Would you like a Demo ??


Right down the road. Woods Stereo crowd from the late 80's, early 90's.

Ray wanted me to check-out his current set-up, but he has been pretty busy. I'll catch him on a good day at some point in the future. Last time I called, I was wanting to bring mine by to show him. He is a busy man, and I work wide open all week myself 

I have been in the Precision Audio Tundra with the old-school LP, and the new Blues. It's nice.

For me, it's either old-school LP, or another brand. The new stuff is just simply going to be out of my price-range. Busy raising children.

Started-out on this build with old-school LP IQ amps, but couldn't get what I wanted. Sold what I had accumulated when I was able to get all the pieces using the JL Slash. The Slash amps are solid, great specs, and superb sound-quality. Not to mention feature-packed. Very pleased with them.

Would very-much like to hear what you are running, and you could hear mine as well.

Maybe one weekend??


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

I would like to clarify my POV.

I have modified my electrical systems in the past. That's not what I am into today. I want, and need my system to run on stock electrical(alt/bat.)

I am also not into turning a vehicle into a rolling carnival. I mean no disrespect to those that like that kind of thing, but that's not for me. If I were running a stereo shop, electronics mfg, or comp vehicle, that would be another thing.

I am just a musician that likes the music to sound like I am in the studio, or as close as I can afford to get.

I only build stealth systems using factory locations, with hidden subs. I have done several without subs.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

I feel you Zumbo. Some people get so bent out of shape over nothing. I never knocked the JL line. I am actually a long time JL user.
I Just thought I would paste this in for the non believers. This is straight out of the LP2202iq manual. 


** 2-ohm power rating is tested with the power supply taps in the 2-ohm setting, 
leaving the taps in the 4 ohm setting will generate considerable additional power 
however it is not suggested or recommended

It amazingly enough says nothing in the whole manual about "voiding the warranty" by running it this way. Just that it is not recommended. Also recall that every component in these were rated at 150% of the normal operating specs. Military grade, which is why they were so expensive back then, and today still.

Edit: Had to add this after watching the video. The new high gloss Plum Crazy looks sick as hell.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Okay so if your running the amp at 4-ohm stereo with taps at 4-ohms... means your running your amp 50% of the capabilities of the components. So by leaving the taps at 4-ohm and hooking it up with 2-ohm loads than your going to get 2x the power meaning your running the components at 100% of their ratings. Does that make sense?


Thats exactly why they state "ITS NOT SUGGESTED OR RECOMMENDED". Its like my car having 160mph as its top speed, just cause it has it doesnt mean its "suggested or recommended" that I drive at that speed, lol.

But since you looked throught the manual did you NOTICE how it has the same power rating for 4-ohm and 2-ohm......similar to the JL RIPS system, except the JL does it for you without opening the bottom to switch the taps. Not saying the JL's are better than the LP's just saying their a bit more advanced, after all they are 10-15 years newer than the original LP's.

But am pretty sure Ray wouldn't advise or recommend anyone running the LP's at 2-ohms stereo or 4-ohm mono on the taps set at 4-ohms. It might not kill the amp right away but it will shorten its life span.


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

zumbo said:


> Right down the road. Woods Stereo crowd from the late 80's, early 90's.
> 
> Ray wanted me to check-out his current set-up, but he has been pretty busy. I'll catch him on a good day at some point in the future. Last time I called, I was wanting to bring mine by to show him. He is a busy man, and I work wide open all week myself
> 
> ...


Wood's Stereo huh ... My old stompin grounds ... lol 
yea man, I'm availiable anytime ... just send me a pm whenever you get time and we can meet up, talk shop, and demo rides ... 
I live only minutes from McDowell Rd ...


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> Okay so if your running the amp at 4-ohm stereo with taps at 4-ohms... means your running your amp 50% of the capabilities of the components. So by leaving the taps at 4-ohm and hooking it up with 2-ohm loads than your going to get 2x the power meaning your running the components at 100% of their ratings. Does that make sense?
> 
> 
> Thats exactly why they state "ITS NOT SUGGESTED OR RECOMMENDED". Its like my car having 160mph as its top speed, just cause it has it doesnt mean its "suggested or recommended" that I drive at that speed, lol.
> ...


Just cant let it go can ya. All im going to say is that it has the same power output with 2 and 4ohm only if you move the taps. It clearly states that the output will have more power if you dont move the taps. Oh I do have a question though, how do you supposed they determined the max output rating for these amps? And, I figured since they took the time to write it in the manual that ray would not endorse it.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

meh.

It will be cool if LP is finally back to stay, but only time will tell if they are truly worth the coin. Personally, I always thought they were pretty solid amps, but there are plenty of alternatives that are just as substantial available for far less $.


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## LinearPower (Apr 16, 2009)

The LP2250 runs at only 15 percent of the output and power supplies capability into a 4 ohm load. Rated RMS power is measured at 12.8 volts into 4 ohms at 50 Hz, with less than .05% THD, translate that to 14.4 at 1000hz into 4 ohms at 1% THD and the amp is around 375 x 2. 

The power supply is grossly over built and has no problem maintaining full power down to 10 Hz. The amp will be capable of sustaining a 2 ohm stereo load in the 4 ohm taps and easily producing 500 x 2 RMS at 12.8 volts and have more headroom and damping factor doing it than the old amps did into a 4 ohm stereo load. It would have to run the optional fan shroud at that point. 

The power supply efficiency on the new amps are nearly 90 percent and the overall amp efficiency at full power is nearly 70 percent.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

LinearPower said:


> *The LP2250 runs at only 15 percent of the output and power supplies capability *into a 4 ohm load. Rated RMS power is measured at 12.8 volts into 4 ohms at 50 Hz, with less than .05% THD, translate that to 14.4 at 1000hz into 4 ohms at 1% THD and the amp is around 375 x 2.
> 
> The power supply is grossly over built and has no problem maintaining full power down to 10 Hz. The amp will be capable of sustaining a 2 ohm stereo load in the 4 ohm taps and easily producing 500 x 2 RMS at 12.8 volts and have more headroom and damping factor doing it than the old amps did into a 4 ohm stereo load. It would have to run the optional fan shroud at that point.
> 
> The power supply efficiency on the new amps are nearly 90 percent and the overall amp efficiency at full power is nearly 70 percent.


Now thats what we call "over-built" or "bullet proof". Nice to know its much safer and possible to run the new ones with the 4-ohm taps and a 2-ohm stereo load. I never did that to my old "IQ" amps.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> Linear Power 5002 is 565W, bridged @4ohm on 2ohm taps.
> 
> If you bridge a 4ohm load on a 5002 on 4ohm taps, which is what people in my circle did, you would get 1100W. This is clearly stated on LP website.
> 
> ...


Well let's look at this from a realistic standpoint.

The JL is tightly regulated, AND class D IT WILL make 500W all day ong and it's not picky about input voltage. It's also A LOT more efficient in operation.

The LP had a chopper, transformer, and rectifier, VERY basic power supply, then you REALLY stressed it by running it bridged on the higher impedance taps. 

So after voltage sag from "the dimming," then transformer saturation on top of that... your realistic numbers from LP to JL were probably on par..

Compound this with the fact that you only gain 3dB BEFORE power compression per doubling of power. and we just stated that said power doubling was HIGHLY unlikely in a real world scenario..... and the overall volume gain was probably more like 1-1.5dB if you were lucky.... a number that is not noticeable.

Not only is the JL in direct competition at this point but it's clearly the winner in terms of electrical longevity, etc.

We can look at numbers all day long but when we look at real world situations with common sense added, things don't look as glamorous.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

LinearPower said:


> The LP2250 runs at only 15 percent of the output and power supplies capability into a 4 ohm load. Rated RMS power is measured at 12.8 volts into 4 ohms at 50 Hz, with less than .05% THD, translate that to 14.4 at 1000hz into 4 ohms at 1% THD and the amp is around 375 x 2.
> 
> The power supply is grossly over built and has no problem maintaining full power down to 10 Hz. The amp will be capable of sustaining a 2 ohm stereo load in the 4 ohm taps and easily producing 500 x 2 RMS at 12.8 volts and have more headroom and damping factor doing it than the old amps did into a 4 ohm stereo load. It would have to run the optional fan shroud at that point.
> 
> The power supply efficiency on the new amps are nearly 90 percent and the overall amp efficiency at full power is nearly 70 percent.


Why don't you go ahead and tell us about damping factor now that you brought it up.....

Power supply "overbuilding" has noting to do with frequency In reality it should do DC to RF at full power.... A volt of swing is a volt of swing regardless of frequency. In reality higher frequencies are harder due to oscillations.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Wouldn't a wide bandwidth be an idicator or possible indicator of flat phase response?

I saw the phase response of the Marantz amps I have listed for sale and it's +/- 15 degrees from 5 to 120k hertz (or whatever the FR is measured to on them).


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Gut pics of the LP2150

Pics of New LP2150


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

chad said:


> Well let's look at this from a realistic standpoint.
> 
> The JL is tightly regulated, AND class D IT WILL make 500W all day ong and it's not picky about input voltage. It's also A LOT more efficient in operation.
> 
> ...


We could look at real world situations and discuss the number of newer burned up JL slash amps on the market compared to the number of 20 year old LP's there are. I have seen more blown JL slash amps just on here in the last 6 months than i have in my whole life of the LP's. Just saying, again, not knocking JL audio but theres a reason you can get a 500/1 for 300 bucks, and a 5002 is around 600 minimum. And it aint cuz the JL beats it hands down.

How the hell did this turn into a JL/LP pissing match???



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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

for2nato said:


> We could look at real world situations and discuss the number of newer burned up JL slash amps on the market compared to the number of 20 year old LP's there are. I have seen more blown JL slash amps just on here in the last 6 months than i have in my whole life of the LP's. Just saying, again, not knocking JL audio but theres a reason you can get a 500/1 for 300 bucks, and a 5002 is around 600 minimum. And it aint cuz the JL beats it hands down.
> 
> How the hell did this turn into a JL/LP pissing match???
> 
> ...



Not even a comparison. Look at the number of JL sold vs LP, LP is prob not even a tenth of a percent of JL's numbers first off. Secondly the JL's are much more reasonably priced then the LP's so of course you can get a good deal on them used. Then add onto that, the fact that LP was gone for forever, so that alone can help the LP "hold" more value.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

MACS said:


> Gut pics of the LP2150
> 
> Pics of New LP2150


That was new? looks 30 yrs old. I guess it could be the nightmare table from hell it is sitting on also.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Richv72 said:


> That was new? looks 30 yrs old. I guess it could be the nightmare table from hell it is sitting on also.


That looks like the 2150 prototype. Cant imagine how much that thing has been passed around.


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

Here is a better pic of the LP2150 ... in a temporary location ...










I plan to be at MECA World Finals (for demo only) this year with the new amps installed ... Please come check them out !!!


----------



## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

Richv72 said:


> That was new? looks 30 yrs old. I guess it could be the nightmare table from hell it is sitting on also.





for2nato said:


> That looks like the 2150 prototype. Cant imagine how much that thing has been passed around.


Yes, that was the First one built ... 
You didn't think that we would make them look like the average Class D monoblock amp ... Did you ??

We wanted to keep the "Best Old School" look with the small footprints ... but with ALOT of modifications for the better !!!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

When will it be made available to us the general public please?


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Hell Im glad it has the same sink style as the originals. It should be trade marked.



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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> When will it be made available to us the general public please?


LP2250 is already shipping. LP2150 is about 4 weeks out. LP 2075 will be after that. If you want one soon I suggest you contact LP direct to order. 




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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Cablguy184 said:


> Here is a better pic of the LP2150 ... in a temporary location ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since I got you here, are the sinks anodized, or powder coated this time around?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

OK I have sent an email to them to see what this will run me shipped to my door.


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

for2nato said:


> Since I got you here, are the sinks anodized, or powder coated this time around?


That would be a Ray question ... I'm sure he will chime in here soon ... 
But I do know that they will have them custom painted ... LOTS of colors on hand ... 



Coppertone said:


> OK I have sent an email to them to see what this will run me shipped to my door.


Ray will respond soon Sir ... But I do know he is(was) in Oklahoma working on the amps ... 
I think he is going to sell to Audio Shops ... and not internet / factory direct unless there is no distributor in your area, Just like they did back in the day ... but Ray will come on and post a final word on this ...


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok guys ... here is a few pics on Linear Power's Flagship of amplifiers ... 
The Linear Power LP2250 ...


























enjoy ...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

for2nato said:


> How the hell did this turn into a JL/LP pissing match???
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


Typical DIYMA, anything that provokes common sense and thought that MAY EVEN REMOTELY go against the grain of "old-skool" nuthugging is classified as a pissing match.

As predictable as the sunrise.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

This stuff can be nit-picked all day long.

YES, they are great!

YES, I wish I had the expendable cash flow to line-up LP in a show vehicle.

*BUT*, I drive basic transportation with a very shocking system. 
*AND*, with my face plate removed, *NOTHING* is visible.
*AND*, *ALL* of my electrical is stock.
*ALL* of my seating is stock, and it is all there.

This is 1100W specked @12.5V. I have a constant 13.5V+.

I have $900 invested in the three amps.

How about those numbers?


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

zumbo said:


> This stuff can be nit-picked all day long.
> 
> YES, they are great!
> 
> ...


I want a demo of your ride Sir ... What do you have planned for Sunday ?? 
got a link to a build log with pics ??

I was just on Galitan St at Superior Automotive giving those guys a demo today ...


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> But am pretty sure Ray wouldn't advise or recommend anyone running the LP's at 2-ohms stereo or 4-ohm mono on the taps set at 4-ohms. It might not kill the amp right away but it will shorten its life span.


He doesn't. He is the one who taught me it cuts the damping factor in half when you do that.

You have to understand that I, like many, was very young in the late 80's. Not much cash. The people selling these LP items at my local stereo shop were having their customers cheat the amps to get more.

I ran (1) 2202 for years bridged on 4ohm taps running (2) 8ohmSVC Kicker Comp 12's without any amplifier problem. Amp WOULD shut down, but never failed to come back on. Killed my cars electrical system, but the good ole Toyota Supra kept on kicking. Replaced batt/alt here and there.

I ran (1) 2202IQ bridged on 4ohm taps running (1) 4ohmSVC Kicker Solo-Baric without any amplifier problem. Amp WOULD shut down, but never failed to come back on. On this system, I ran a relay, and an extra batt. Chevy Silverado had a place for an extra batt under-hood.

Both of these amps were used before I ever got my hands on them. Who knows what previous owners had put them through. That's how I KNOW for a fact they are bullet-proof.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Cablguy184 said:


> I want a demo of your ride Sir ... What do you have planned for Sunday ??
> got a link to a build log with pics ??
> 
> I was just on Galitan St at Superior Automotive giving those guys a demo today ...


PM sent.

The system is just on the initial install. I have lots to do. No sound deadening, and a few rattles. Volume solves that problem. LOL!


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

Every Linear power amp I've owned was at 8 ohms mono for sub duty ... 4 ohms stereo ... As recommended by Ray ... 

The very first 2 Linear Amps I bought from Wood's Stereo were the LP452IQs ... I ordered them power coated blue ... That day I picked them up, I took them over to Ray's house for Modifications ... Every amp I've owned since has gotten the same treatment ... I've never ran any other amp but Linear Power ... 
in fact, Ray has my modified LP 2.2hv and my modified LP PA2 Audiopath at his shop for sale if you guys know anyone interested ... 

And as for the inital reason for this thread, YES ... I do believe that the older Linear Power amps will hold their values for a LONG time to come ... They are ver well built machines ...


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Cablguy184 said:


> And as for the inital reason for this thread, YES ... I do believe that the older Linear Power amps will hold their values for a LONG time to come ... They are ver well built machines ...


Indeed. All of my 30-year-old amps never failed to give me 100% of my money back *AFTER* use.

Not many amps you can say that about.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> He doesn't. He is the one who taught me it cuts the damping factor in half when you do that.


SCREECHING HALT.

By going to different transformer taps you change the coil configuration of the power transformers..... lower voltage/higher current or higher voltage/lower current.

So explain to me how this changes the output impedance of the amplifier (how damping factor is derived)


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Cablguy184 said:


> Ok guys ... here is a few pics on Linear Power's Flagship of amplifiers ...
> The Linear Power LP2250 ...
> 
> 
> ...


Oh My! Is that candy red?



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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

chad said:


> Why don't you go ahead and tell us about damping factor now that you brought it up.....
> 
> Power supply "overbuilding" has noting to do with frequency In reality it should do DC to RF at full power.... A volt of swing is a volt of swing regardless of frequency. In reality higher frequencies are harder due to oscillations.


My questions would be:
Why is that power supply not microprocessor controlled? 

Is that amplifier "high voltage" like the traditional models?

If so, is that enough capacitance to serve as storage for 250x2? 

Will the power supply sag if it encounters a 30 second 40 Hz Dubstep drop? 

Is this where someone tells me to STFU and try listening to "real music?":laugh:


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

redder than red.


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

ChrisB said:


> My questions would be:
> Why is that power supply not microprocessor controlled?
> 
> Is that amplifier "high voltage" like the traditional models?
> ...


Zumbo should be able to answer almost all of your questions tomorrow after his demo of the LP2150 and LP2250 ...



chad said:


> redder than red.


Plum Crazy Purple ... Crazy thing seems to show different colors under lights ...


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Why does the power supply need to be microproccessor controlled?

And it looks light on the capacitance.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Looks nothing like the other plum crazy pics i have seen. Thats cool that it sorta color shifts depending on light

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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Cablguy184 said:


> Plum Crazy Purple ......


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

for2nato said:


> Looks nothing like the other plum crazy pics i have seen. Thats cool that it sorta color shifts depending on light


I will post pics of my new amp rack when it gets built with the Green LED lights installed ... That color mix is WILD !!!


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

chad said:


>


Basic colors are white, black, purple, and titanium ... but like I said earlier, you can order just about any color you like ... just talk to Ray ...


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Remove the idea of moving taps.

Remove the idea of testing voltage at the outputs.

Watt, for watt.

You half the ohm load on any amp, you half the damping factor.

Are you guys really puzzled by this????

If so, then I am talking to the wrong group of guys.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Why does the power supply need to be microproccessor controlled?


Just a nit pick question regarding the evolution of amplifier design and the suggested MSRP. Ever look to see how much technology JL Audio gives you with regards to their MSRP? Price the individual components in a 900/5 and then compare it to the new offerings from Linear Power that will get you the same relative power, and get back to me with technology per dollar spent. 

Second thought, if my math is correct, one would easily need THREE 2075s costing $2997 - $3447 to equal ONE 900/5 that has a MSRP of $1,200. Now for the person who comes back with the "Mah ears told me it was worth it to buy ear candy" comment... My retort is that it is going in a car, which is far from ideal for audio reproduction while actually driving the dang thing! For a SQ competition system, maybe it is worth it BUT for a daily driver dealing with the hustle and bustle of traffic, NO WAY!



thehatedguy said:


> And it looks light on the capacitance.


For a high voltage unit, I totally agree. There looks to be very little reserve capacity to keep the voltage up on those rails. If "overbuilt power supply" is going to be touted as a design feature, where is the reserve capacity to keep it well fed?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> Remove the idea of moving taps.
> 
> Remove the idea of testing voltage at the outputs.
> 
> ...


Doh, I put the emPHAsis on the wrong silLAble. My apologies.

I was looking more at the taps than the halving of impedance....

Still never got my answer as to why we are fixating on Damping Factor here when it's been proven for years upon years to be a moot measurement.


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## WhippingBoy (Dec 21, 2010)

I'm still sad Ray didn't use the metal cans, T0-3 transistors. For the price, they should have the metal cans, IMHO.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

ChrisB said:


> For a high voltage unit, I totally agree. There looks to be very little reserve capacity to keep the voltage up on those rails. If "overbuilt power supply" is going to be touted as a design feature, where is the reserve capacity to keep it well fed?


It's easy to jump on a "lack of rail filtering" but remember, we have no idea what the switching frequency is of the power supply... The more often it charges the smaller they can be.

Example:










1RU ungodly powerful.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

chad said:


> Still never got my answer as to why we are fixating on Damping Factor here when it's been proven for years upon years to be a moot measurement.


Well, supposedly it has to do with SQ.

With that in mind, all I am doing is stating the *FACT* that if you half the ohm load on the amp, you half the damping factor.

So, in my mind, if I can have a JL without halving the damping factor, compared to the price of a LP with a fraction of damping factor of the JL, would you?

I did.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

WhippingBoy said:


> I'm still sad Ray didn't use the metal cans, T0-3 transistors. For the price, they should have the metal cans, IMHO.


Not a really commonly produced device for manufacture.

Nobody is using them anymore.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

The problem is, the Blues tweets don't do it for me.

So, no matter what I hear tomorrow, I WILL prefer my Quart Mobil 25 tweets.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

chad said:


> It's easy to jump on a "lack of rail filtering" but remember, we have no idea what the switching frequency is of the power supply... The more often it charges the smaller they can be.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...


Yeah, but your example is also working with a higher voltage and a AC power source to start. It was my understanding that getting to that point from 12 volts DC was a different ball game. 

Disclaimer: I'm a bean counter, not an engineer, so you have to spoon feed me. EDIT: I have also been partaking in some 12 ounce curls, so tonight may not be a good night for spoon feeding.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> With that in mind, all I am doing is stating the *FACT* that if you half the ohm load on the amp, you half the damping factor.


*Again....*


chad said:


> Doh, I put the emPHAsis on the wrong silLAble. My apologies.
> 
> I was looking more at the taps than the halving of impedance....





zumbo said:


> So, in my mind, if I can have a JL without halving the damping factor, compared to the price of a LP with a fraction of damping factor of the JL, would you?
> 
> I did.



I dot' care about damping factor EVER and if it's that huge of a deal keep in mind how much your speaker cable causes a skew and make sure you get them VERY CLOSE to the same length because there will be a L/R missmatch....

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/damptoole.htm

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/dampaugs.htm

From here:
Speaker Wire


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

ChrisB said:


> Yeah, but your example is also working with a higher voltage and a AC power source to start. It was my understanding that getting to that point from 12 volts DC was a different ball game.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm a bean counter, not an engineer, so you have to spoon feed me. EDIT: I have also been partaking in some 12 ounce curls, so tonight may not be a good night for spoon feeding.


AC/DC makes no difference because in that design (no bigass transformer) the first thing the AC hits is a rectifier. They work dandy on 10 car batteries too 

As for voltage, remember we are just talking about power here so current has to go up. that has to work on a 20A circuit, a car amp has a battery that can supply 500+ amps of current on a whim.

That amp pictured makes 4KW at 2 ohms.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

chad said:


> *Again....[/B
> I dot' care about damping factor EVER and if it's that huge of a deal keep in mind how much your speaker cable causes a skew and make sure you get them VERY CLOSE to the same length because there will be a L/R missmatch....
> *


*

The damping factor has to do with the control over the driver movement. 

No driver is moving more than a sub.

More people drop the ohm load on a sub amp to get more out of it, when looking at it from a financial POV.

The sub signal is mono, so your l/r argument is null.

Higher damping factor, more control over the driver, higher SQ.*


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

you did not read the articles... or any other topic based on damping factor in an audio forum for that matter.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> More people drop the ohm load on a sub amp to get more out of it, when looking at it from a financial POV.


I agree, and quite honestly it drives me nuts... 



zumbo said:


> The sub signal is mono, so your l/r argument is null.



So let's say I'm in a large venue and I have subs across the front of the stage. My subwoofer amplifiers are stage left. I then run a speaker cable to each dual 18 cab that is different in length to reduce resistance/loss. Now my argument is not null. Not only do I have two channels, but possibly 4-8. What should I look for in comb filtering, or the fact that my farther subs will start and stop later in time by your theory that damping factor makes a difference? Should I look for a change in my polar plots or correct for a now steered array?

I posted a couple good links.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

chad said:


> you did not read the articles... or any other topic based on damping factor in an audio forum for that matter.


Simply reading your replies, and answering.

You either accept the scientific fact of the damping factor being halved, or you don't.

If I have the choice to *half the damping factor, double the distortion, and double the load put on my vehicles electrical, and double the hit on my wallet,* then I will make the same decision again. 

Those a scientific facts. Whether someone can hear the difference REALLY depends on the drivers, now don't it.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> You either accept the scientific fact of the damping factor being halved, or you don't.
> 
> If I have the choice to *half the damping factor, double the distortion, and double the load put on my vehicles electrical, and double the hit on my wallet,* then I will make the same decision again.
> 
> Those a scientific facts.


Jesus Christ man, I SAID I ****ING AGREE, I looked at the taps comment and not the impedance halving.... goddamn.

3rd time I mentioned this, even offered apologies. possibly my euphemism wooshed.

Then I posted scientific facts, with measurements that damping factor does not do what you says it does 

you know that when you bridge an amp you halve the damping factor because you double the output impedance of the amp correct? Exact same as halving the impedance of the load.


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

WOW ...


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Why are we arguing about damping factor in car audio again? Does the speaker's enclosure, suspension, and motor structure NOT control the speaker better than the amplifier's damping factor? You gotta admit, Damping Factor is a great marketing term, but a useless spec in the 12v world.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Cablguy184 said:


> WOW ...


no ****


But He will offer this advice again in the next post.

4th time is a charm to get it into my head I guess.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

ChrisB said:


> Why are we arguing about damping factor in car audio again? Does the speaker's enclosure, suspension, and motor structure NOT control the speaker better than the amplifier's damping factor? You gotta admit, Damping Factor is a great marketing term, but a useless spec in the 12v world.


It's the mystical number that sells amps.. Crown tried it too, everyone blew it off. Bryston tried too, waste of ink.

A driver is VERY MUCH controlled by the output impedance of an amplifier. but the difference between a .01 and .001 impedance makes a HUGE difference in DF and no difference in driver control.


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## LinearPower (Apr 16, 2009)

WhippingBoy said:


> I'm still sad Ray didn't use the metal cans, T0-3 transistors. For the price, they should have the metal cans, IMHO.


Those are the highest sq devices from Motorola in the TO-3P plastic case, exact same internals as the TO-3 metal. 

Yes, the amp has enough capacitance, 9600 mf, it is done in three stages to keep the signal cleaner to the outputs and increase the slew rate and current at the transistors. One set of caps filter directly at the rectifiers to kill High freq RF noise off the rectifiers. Then the second set filter and store between the power supply and output stage. Third set is directly off the buss bar with in an inch of the first output filtering for a third time and storing energy directly at the buss bar and outputs so they can dump energy quicker and with less loss to the output devices, instead of pulling current thru traces 5 or 6 inches back to a center storage bank. 

There are al sorts of high end ideas you don't see in looking at the amp design.


----------



## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

Later then that, as I bought new LP amps in 95.




sqshoestring said:


> I can't believe they (or about anyone) would build an amp today at all like the old LP. LP went out of biz what in the late 80s? So 30yr ago, are any of those people even still alive lol. Hard to say what they are up to. I know a master tech that built his own amp and it was awesome, expensive, and could not sell them. Today its all about cheap and marketing, but the electronics are better so you can get away with cheaper stuff too.


----------



## LinearPower (Apr 16, 2009)

LinearPower said:


> The LP2250 runs at only 15 percent of the output and power supplies capability into a 4 ohm load. Rated RMS power is measured at 12.8 volts into 4 ohms at 50 Hz, with less than .05% THD, translate that to 14.4 at 1000hz into 4 ohms at 1% THD and the amp is around 375 x 2.
> 
> The power supply is grossly over built and has no problem maintaining full power down to 10 Hz. The amp will be capable of sustaining a 2 ohm stereo load in the 4 ohm taps and easily producing 500 x 2 RMS at 12.8 volts and have more headroom and damping factor doing it than the old amps did into a 4 ohm stereo load. It would have to run the optional fan shroud at that point.
> 
> The power supply efficiency on the new amps are nearly 90 percent and the overall amp efficiency at full power is nearly 70 percent.



Clarification: in testing we have run the amps into a 2 ohm stereo load in the 4 ohm taps, and yes it doubles power and would require the fan kit for sustained use, but considering the amp will make between 365-375 watts at 14.4 to 14.6 into a 4 ohm load, and that the Re on some speakers could push that above 400 watts a channel, we have not decided whether we will allow the protection circuit to run a 2 ohm load in the 4 ohm taps. That will be decided before the first amps ship by Jeri. The problem is that with a low Re driver and high battery voltage to the amp, it could make in excess of 800 watts a channel RMS and that is above the percentage of use we like to build the units.


----------



## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

chad said:


> I SAID I AGREE, I looked at the taps comment and not the impedance halving....
> 
> 3rd time I mentioned this, even offered apologies. possibly my euphemism wooshed.
> 
> Then I posted scientific facts, with measurements that damping factor does not do what you says it does


I had to go back and re-read the thread. Through the days, and other threads, I kinda got lost on you agreeing with a particular example, and your defense of damping factors relevance.:blush:



chad said:


> you know that when you bridge an amp you halve the damping factor because you double the output impedance of the amp correct? Exact same as halving the impedance of the load.


Yup. My defense in the thread is just to simply *NOT* do this. A better option is to get the desired power without bridging/dropping the ohm load.

In my situation, I had the option to do one, or the other. Same money.

I *DID NOT* have the money to equal the performance of the 500/1 using a LP *properly* for a perceived SQ difference. At this point, for my particular needs, I am sold on Class D for sub-woofer amplification.

*EDIT* My apologies for the editing of this post. Just trying to get it all right.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

zumbo said:


> I had to go back and re-read the thread. Through the days, and other threads, I kinda got lost on you agreeing with a particular example, and your defense of damping factors relevance.:blush:


LOL it's all good.





zumbo said:


> Yup. My defense in the thread is just to simply *NOT* do this. A better option is to get the desired power without bridging/dropping the ohm load.



Deargod... now both of us are going to hell.... you bring the ice and cooler, I'll bring beer. 

It's all about the watts yo.... gotta have an amp that "stable" to a quarter of an ohm so we can bridge it at 1/2 ohm to get mad watts! :laugh:


----------



## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Did the demo.

Replied to the Blues thread.

I will keep this post about the LP.

Batteries everywhere. Two under the hood, and I can't remember how many in the bed of the truck.

Major wiring under the hood, and in the bed.

Three amps.

Is there mad power? Yes.

Can the system run with the truck off? Yes.

Are the amps impressive? Yes.

Do I want to re-wire my vehicle, and haul a poop-load of batteries to run my system? Nope.


----------



## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

zumbo said:


> I had to go back and re-read the thread. Through the days, and other threads, I kinda got lost on you agreeing with a particular example, and your defense of damping factors relevance.:blush:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you guys argue damping factor in pms and not my thread?



Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

for2nato said:


> Can you guys argue damping factor in pms and not my thread?


What would you like us to talk about?

From what I can tell, we are talking about LP.

A three-hour dual demo occurred today, due to this thread.

Prototype NEW LP. 

Old-school LP.

New Blues comps.

Old-school Blues subs.

What more could you want???

Oh yeah, to have been there.:laugh:


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

for2nato said:


> Can you guys argue damping factor in pms and not my thread?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


It's a forum..... It's technically the forum owner's thread.

My PM's are shut off for many. If we were closer I'd be happy to grab a few beers and chat about it then.


----------



## WhippingBoy (Dec 21, 2010)

LinearPower said:


> Those are the highest sq devices from Motorola in the TO-3P plastic case, exact same internals as the TO-3 metal.
> 
> Yes, the amp has enough capacitance, 9600 mf, it is done in three stages to keep the signal cleaner to the outputs and increase the slew rate and current at the transistors. One set of caps filter directly at the rectifiers to kill High freq RF noise off the rectifiers. Then the second set filter and store between the power supply and output stage. Third set is directly off the buss bar with in an inch of the first output filtering for a third time and storing energy directly at the buss bar and outputs so they can dump energy quicker and with less loss to the output devices, instead of pulling current thru traces 5 or 6 inches back to a center storage bank.
> 
> There are al sorts of high end ideas you don't see in looking at the amp design.


I understand that the electrical characteristics for the plastic case are the same as the metal case. I'm just nostalic about the LP amps and the T0-3 cans. I love the metal cans and think, right or wrong, that they offer a heat transfer advantage as well as being a little more reliable. I very well may be wrong and it's all in my head. I just think that so much of the new amp(s) have the classic, old school LP appeal sans the metal cans.

The new amps look great. I wish I could afford one


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

The original design for the TO3 metal can was to fit in the place of a tube socket.... It was an idea to reduce tooling costs originally. Now they are/have been simply phased out for a device that still has EXCELLENT contact area to the heatsink and can be managed easier for transport and implementation by machines. the extra metal on top really does not do much because the die is on the bottom plate, which is attached to a bigass chunk of metal wicking heat away.

Blame the industrial revolution, people got tired of hand-stuffing TO3's.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

zumbo said:


> Do I want to re-wire my vehicle, and haul a poop-load of batteries to run my system? Nope.


I learned the hard way that car audio is all about compromise. First off, the environment is less than ideal for the reproduction of sound, but that is a whole other thread in and of itself. Next you have the electrical constraints, i.e. the poop-load of batteries. Finally you have the space constraints for all those batteries, sub enclosures, and amplifiers.

In the end, I am asking myself "is it worth it" to do another install AND the only thing I really need is a decent LOC, processor, or HU.:laugh: While I like to poke fun at cost, in the end, it's a hobby, and hobbies are designed to separate those involved from their cash.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

ChrisB said:


> While I like to poke fun at cost, in the end, it's a hobby, and hobbies are designed to separate those involved from their cash.


It's a hobby for me. 

For some, it's their business.

For some, it's competition.

I really didn't expect my system to turn-out as good as it did. I just expected a snappy little crisp system. It was a real eye-opener for me.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

Its nice when you have an expected outcome, and the end result is way better than you thought it would be. Thats the kind of thing that pushes people to bigger and better.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

for2nato said:


> Its nice when you have an expected outcome, and the end result is way better than you thought it would be. Thats the kind of thing that pushes people to bigger and better.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


For sure. The whole idea I was after was to actually take it down a notch. Get back to the core of the type music I enjoy. You know, the kind with musicians playing instruments.

Not a machine cranking-out computer generated BBBBBBBbass.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

zumbo said:


> For sure. The whole idea I was after was to actually take it down a notch. Get back to the core of the type music I enjoy. You know, the kind with musicians playing instruments.
> 
> Not a machine cranking-out computer generated BBBBBBBbass.


I predicted a comment like this a few posts back!:laugh:



ChrisB said:


> Is this where someone tells me to STFU and try listening to "real music?":laugh:


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

ChrisB said:


> I predicted a comment like this a few posts back!:laugh:


Well, I did mention I am a musician. A studio SQ is my target system. 
(*EDIT*) In the band, not watching the band.

Being able to hear the mallet hit the bass drum, instead of a simple super low wooosh.

Being able to tell there is a wooden stick actually hitting the cymbal.

Hearing the pick hit the string, before the musical note.

Hearing the movement of the key on the piano.

All of those things.

What's a dub step?:laugh: 

Feeling as though the performance is on my dash/hood. If the speakers sound like ****, why does that even matter?:surprised: I am in my vehicle. I am pretty aware that is my location at the time.

Having major SPL to hit some stupid #. Ah yes, 17 all over again.


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