# Reprogram Ford SYNC HU for flat output??



## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

I've copied the below quotes from a build thread to start a new topic-specific discussion here ...


unix_usr said:


> All Ford Sync OEM units have a configurable DSP - the factory target curve typically includes a high pass around 60hz @ 12db on the front channels (slightly higher on the rear, dependent upon cabin measurements). This can be defeated, and the ACM (Audio Control Module) can in fact be set (configured) to spit out pure, flat, pre-amp level (4V rms) balanced line output versus amplified, dsp'd, ta'd and OEM tuned speaker level output.
> 
> Fixed or variable output can be achieved too - in Ford units with the branded Sony setups (yuck) the head unit sends a fixed pre-amp output and the amplifier module itself intercepts the CAN Bus messages for volume up / volume down. Variable output works very much the same way one would expect the pre-amp outputs from an aftermarket head unit to work.





fourthmeal said:


> HOW? Would you do it through FOCCCUS or something?





unix_usr said:


> Trade secret  - I just happen to work at the building next door to where they develop the OEM audio systems at Ford... It can (legally) be done by a shop or dealership with the requisite IDS (diagnostic/programming) equipment but still requires the right code per VIN # .
> 
> In fact - I have a 2015 Mustang GT (my daily driver) now configured with variable line-level output and flat EQ with all DSP/ta shut off - spliced directly into the input cables for Zapco Symbilink (DC series amps with my own DSP settings).


*unix_usr* .... this is of course very interesting for those of us with late Ford SYNC HU's (ACM's). Can you give us any more hints about how to steer a Ford Dealer Tech with IDS (but no 'audio expertise') to find the settings for making these adjustments?

When you mention the need for a "right code per VIN" are you saying that the Tech simply needs the VIN for the vehicle being modified, and then IDS provides menus for altering to a different desired ACM output 'profile' (my term for lack of better) or does he need a VIN and settings code corresponding to the desired new output settings?


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Interesting


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Obviously, it sure as heck got my attention!

I'd be more than willing to pay my Ford Dealer a bit of shop time to make my HU send the cleanest and most 'un-altered' possible output to my MS-8. Sure, the MS-8 does best it can to de-EQ the input but I can't help but think if that processing power was not needed all would be better for it.

BUT, I _know_ I'll need help steering my small-town Ford Dealer Tech to do this, it won't be anything they have experience with in using the IDS I'm certain.


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Can't you buy IDS on eBay with adapter and software?


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

lizardking said:


> Can't you buy IDS on eBay with adapter and software?


Not really. Yeah, you can get the hardware but it is not cheap for a genuine article (clones are suspect). You must be very careful to know what you are and aren't getting. The only way to ensure you are using the most current full-capability IDS (which is very frequently updated) is by legitimate license from Ford. The software requires regular online re-validation. https://www.motorcraftservice.com/VDIRS/wds/vcm_us_renewal.asp

Caveat emptor.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

I am definitely interested in hearing more on this...

I wonder if it could be done with software like Forscan?


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

The problem is that programming or re-programming the ACM (audio control module) is proprietary; it can be done with the IDS setup, (I've personally done it), but the actual configuration code is a 16 digit hex code that varies from platform to platform and year to year (it's basically VIN specific).

If you have access to the IDS - and IF you can get the right configuration string, then you essentially re-program the ACM module as if you were replacing it (using the IDS re-programming function, and the "as built" data from Ford). The DSP isn't so much configurable for custom configurations as it is defeatable; the output mode is a different setting. You have to modify the as-built data for the VIN and poof, you can set one of 3 modes.

1 - Fixed line-level out (4v pre-amp, fixed volume)
2 - Variable line-level output (traditional pre-amp)
3 - Normal (amplified/regular speaker level output)


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Seems a lot easier to just get a kit/harness and do aftermarket .


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

oabeieo said:


> Seems a lot easier to just get a kit/harness and do aftermarket .


Have you seen or ever come accross a "kit/harness" which can UN-do time delay and specific EQ gains/cuts? I tried with a JBL MS-8, but it was barely able to handle the un-eq portions and even then only if I never ever changed the volume. 

... I don't think you understand the point/thread here... the pre-amp output bit is only a secondary option


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

unix_usr said:


> Have you seen or ever come accross a "kit/harness" which can UN-do time delay and specific EQ gains/cuts? I tried with a JBL MS-8, but it was barely able to handle the un-eq portions and even then only if I never ever changed the volume.
> 
> ... I don't think you understand the point/thread here... the pre-amp output bit is only a secondary option


I meant ditch the factory head unit . Lol. I was being facetious . Sorry


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

unix_usr said:


> The problem is that programming or re-programming the ACM (audio control module) is proprietary; it can be done with the IDS setup, (I've personally done it), but the actual configuration code is a 16 digit hex code that varies from platform to platform and year to year (it's basically VIN specific).
> 
> If you have access to the IDS - and IF you can get the right configuration string, then you essentially re-program the ACM module as if you were replacing it (using the IDS re-programming function, and the "as built" data from Ford). The DSP isn't so much configurable for custom configurations as it is defeatable; the output mode is a different setting. You have to modify the as-built data for the VIN and poof, you can set one of 3 modes.
> 
> ...


I don't have access to IDS or the wherewithal to use it, take that as a given. So, to be clear, I'm on the ragged-edge of understanding the detail of any of this.

My non-Sony ACM does not output to an external DSP/amp (DSP module) like the Sony system; the ACM has 5 channels of speaker-level outputs (front L&R, front center, rear door L&R). The front and rear discrete 2-way OEM tweeter/woofers have integral passive XO at the drivers.

The non-Sony ACM does impose some EQ curve specific to each of the 'occupancy settings' available on the touch screen control (FDIM). I don't know but I don't _think_ that particular ACM performs any sort of TA in conjunction with those settings. It also imposes a volume-dependent EQ curve.

Obviously the Dealer can access my vehicle-VIN-specific build data and as-built ACM programming via OASIS / IDS.

So, is my Ford Dealer able/authorized to configure my non-Sony ACM to "Variable line-level output (traditional pre-amp)"? Would that, or some other parameter they can change, also defeat the EQ that the ACM imposes currently?

Thanks in advance for your patience with my Q's.


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

That's the problem - your dealer would be able to access the as-built data, but they would not have access to the data pertinent to changing that data accordingly.

PM me...


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

With these new super integrated Source Units in modern cars...wouldn't it be nice if Manufactures would allow this as a dealership service.

"Oil change, rotate the tires and...OH, please set the ACM to un-EQ'd variable pre-amp mode please. Just call when it's ready...thank's"

Following this if it progress's, would love to know if this is an actual option for those of us who aren't computer programmers


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## Goldcar (Dec 8, 2015)

I know a lead tech in the Ford service department at my dealer. My truck goes in this friday, i will ask. Deff need this done, factory HU in the F150 is too integrated for me to want to screw around with, and i like the way it all looks.


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Some of the Ford guys on the truck forums use that IDS software from eBay. No issues.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

*unix_usr* .... received your latest PM but can't reply as your PM box is too full.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

lizardking said:


> Some of the Ford guys on the truck forums use that IDS software from eBay. No issues.


Which one is that? There are tons of them out there. I have spoken with a few different companies today and have not found one who's software can access the ACM settings on my 2014 F150.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

FordEscape said:


> *unix_usr* .... received your latest PM but can't reply as your PM box is too full.


Ditto...


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

dawaro said:


> Which one is that? There are tons of them out there. I have spoken with a few different companies today and have not found one who's software can access the ACM settings on my 2014 F150.


 The one post I seen a guy was showing others screen shots. One of the screen shots showed the "Audio Conf" menu. The one he used is USA SHIP New Arrival Vxdiag VCX Nano for Ford Mazda 2 in 1 with IDS V97 | eBay


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

Man, it would be incredible to get a flat output in my 2012 F150. Following along.

Brandon


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Inbox fixed


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

Would this apply to Fords with nav and Sony systems? Or Sync only?

Brandon


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

I was actually able to get my "As Built" file directly from the Motorcraft website.

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/SPubs/default.asp?pageid=spubs_as_call


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

What's the process for getting that?

Brandon


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

cbrandonb said:


> What's the process for getting that?
> 
> Brandon


Go to Quick Guides in the left menu, scroll down the page and you will see Module Build Data.

Enter your VIN and it will produce the report for download.


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

It never loads for me. >_< Even letting it sit for 10 or 15 minutes, won't load any info. Do you have to have a subscription or anything to obtain the data? Or is it open to anyone who signs up on the website?

Brandon


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

lizardking said:


> Some of the Ford guys on the truck forums use that IDS software from eBay. No issues.


i agree- any software can be cracked and reset to run in authorized mode.
I use Toyota/lexus techstream and it does exactly the same as dealer laptop with it. and I use cheap knock off chinese interface.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

cbrandonb said:


> It never loads for me. >_< Even letting it sit for 10 or 15 minutes, won't load any info. Do you have to have a subscription or anything to obtain the data? Or is it open to anyone who signs up on the website?
> 
> Brandon


I had the same issue when I tried to access it with Chrome. IE with the pop-up blocker turned off worked fine.


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

Oh, thanks! I was also using Chrome. I'll try IE.

Brandon


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## gonzo36 (May 11, 2014)

any more info on getting this to work?


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

So far neither the OP or myself have been able to verify this.

The problem comes with trying to find software that can write back to the module and then having the proper interface.

Another issue is the information that was provided to me to has been questioned for accuracy by the developers at Forscan so I have to get that straightened out as well before I can move forward.


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## otis857 (Feb 12, 2008)

Is this on the 2012+ sync MFT system only? I think they changed in 2012. I have a 2011 Raptor that Im starting my system upgrade and it would be great to set the sync system to Pre-out going into my PS8


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

otis857 said:


> Is this on the 2012+ sync MFT system only? I think they changed in 2012. I have a 2011 Raptor that Im starting my system upgrade and it would be great to set the sync system to Pre-out going into my PS8


I wish I could give you an answer on that but all the information I have was provided by unix_usr.

I haven't even verified that it works with my 2014 MFT at this point. I still have some questions I need answered before I take the chance on bricking my system...


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

dawaro said:


> ...The problem comes with trying to find software that can write back to the module and then having the proper interface....


This is where I'm stuck.

FoCCCus software v0.7+ with ELM327 interface, which I've used to successfully reprogram some BCM parameters on my Focus-platform Escape, does not support direct line editing of the ACM hex code even with the ELM327 modified to enable MS-CAN access.

Same for the current Forscan with modified ELM327 as far as I've been able to determine.

Other software+interface which most likely will do the job (allow direct editing of ACM MS-CAN bus code) are outside my budget. I haven't found a single vendor of the many 'low-cost' programming tools that can/will confirm their tools specifically support ACM code editing.

I'm using "edit / editing" to refer to both altering the code AND write that back to the ACM.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

FordEscape said:


> This is where I'm stuck.
> 
> FoCCCus software v0.7+ with ELM327 interface, which I've used to successfully reprogram some BCM parameters on my Focus-platform Escape, does not support direct line editing of the ACM hex code even with the ELM327 modified to enable MS-CAN access.
> 
> ...


The new version of ForScan will allow you to both alter the code as well as upload new files.

I have a beta version of it and I have verified that the read/write function does work.

I am still holding back on the audio changes. Being that I have the Sony system I don't think changing a parameter in the ACM is going to help me being the ACM simply feeds L/R signals to the DSP.

Looking at the DSP in ForScan tonight only shows two blocks of programming for the DSP.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

dawaro said:


> The new version of ForScan will allow you to both alter the code as well as upload new files.
> 
> I have a beta version of it and I have verified that the read/write function does work.....


Very cool, just found and downloaded that 12/31/15 v2.2.10 beta Forscan, thanks very much for the tip!!

What are you using for your interface with this?

I'll be carefully checking it out for my Non-Sony ACM tomorrow.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

I am using a modified ELM adapter.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

OK, renewed hope with your info .... hopefully I'll be reporting back with good news.


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## zinoy (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm real interested in this for my 2014 Focus ST with Mytouch.

If I am understanding this correctly, is there really a way to change the HU out to variable volume so I can bypass the Sony amp and go directly to the Mosconi 6to8 from the HU?

I cant get a proper soundstage because the rear speakers are pulling the sound to the right(read horror stories that disconnecting them will cause the Sony to overheat). If I fade foward the sub channel gets turned off and then I lose all the bass output.  

Almost ready to pull everything out and go back to stock stereo and use the Mosconi and amps in my other car.


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

I ordered an ELM and am going to mess with the Forscan utility too - I know the OEM utilities are quite a bit different from the as-built data/stuff and are formula based, I wonder it we could figure out the formula ourselves and contribute to the Forscan development folks....


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

I am not sure if it has been verified with the Sony system.
If you have the Sony system you should not be using the sub outputs, only the front mid and tweet outputs.

There is a long thread were someone put an oscope on the out puts and found that the sub output clips badly and faster that the other outputs.


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

dawaro said:


> I am not sure if it has been verified with the Sony system.
> If you have the Sony system you should not be using the sub outputs, only the front mid and tweet outputs.
> 
> There is a long thread were someone put an oscope on the out puts and found that the sub output clips badly and faster that the other outputs.


Very good to know. Thank you!

I also believe the front mid and tweet outputs are full range each, aren't they? With physical caps and resistors for crossover?

Brandon


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

It is my understanding that they are not full range and it requires both outputs be summed to get a full range signal. The caps on the tweeters are more for protection than they are for xovers.

When I get home I will find the thread were they scoped the outputs and post the link.


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

That would be awesome. Thank you.

Brandon


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

cbrandonb said:


> ...I also believe the front mid and tweet outputs are full range each, aren't they? With physical caps and resistors for crossover?....


With the Non-Sony this is definitely true, there are only front L&R outputs from the HU (speaker level) and the XO/filter duties are managed by speaker-mounted caps & coils mounted on the OEM speakers.

From the HU to the DSP in the Sony System there are only front and rear L&R outputs, not separated for tweeter vs woofer.

The Sony unit, however, has separate outputs from the DSP/Amp for front tweeters L&R and front woofers L&R (ignoring rear, center and sub in this discussion). AFAIK those are filtered to match the driver by the DSP and the speakers don't rely on filters external to the DSP.

All my comments above based on looking at the full Ford Workshop Manual wiring diagrams for the '13-'14 Escape (Focus platform) which I have in front of me on CD ROM.


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks!

Should I get full range sound summing the front tweets and woofer outputs of the sony amp together? Also, are the rear speaker outputs of the Sony amp full range?

Brandon


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

cbrandonb said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Should I get full range sound summing the front tweets and woofer outputs of the sony amp together? Also, are the rear speaker outputs of the Sony amp full range?
> 
> Brandon


I wasn't able to get a decent sub and midbass response without the rears ran into my lc7. If you remove a load from the Sony amp you have to compensate it with an inline resistor. Unless you're using a dsp that will load the channels.
Now you can and I did tap the rears on mine and then pull the fronts off the Sony amp. 
Staging is now decent, but I'm swapping the audio control for an ms8 this weekend.


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## cbrandonb (Nov 9, 2015)

Awesome. Really appreciate the reply!

I'm still debating on which processor to use. Do you know what load and power rating resistor I would need to use? And I assume it would be inline with the DSP, assuming the DSP doesn't provide a load (and I'd bet most don't)?

Brandon


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Here's the more complete Sony System map, again for '13-'14 Escape/Focus Platform ...

ACM (HU) > front L&R, rear L&R > DSP/Amp

DSP/Amp Outputs (one line per amp output channel):
Front Door Woofer Left
Front Tweeter Left
Front Door Woofer Right
Front Tweeter Right
Center Dash
Rear Door Left (one channel out for both woofer & tweeter, speaker mounted filters)
Rear Door Right (one channel out for both woofer & tweeter, speaker mounted filters)
Sub 1*
Sub 2*
* two sub outputs from DSP to a DVC subwoofer

Hope that helps

If you are dealing with a late model Focus car you might want to check this forum for much more detailed info specific to that car ....Focus ST Electronics


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

dawaro said:


> It is my understanding that they are not full range and it requires both outputs be summed to get a full range signal. The caps on the tweeters are more for protection than they are for xovers.
> 
> When I get home I will find the thread were they scoped the outputs and post the link.


Here is the link to the thread discussing the correct outputs to use.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/135919-2012-ford-f150-raptor.html

On the Sony units in the F150 there is only a L/R signal coming from the ACM. The signal is then divided at the DSP into LFT, LFW, RFT, RFW, LR, RR, and a single sub channel.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

And from what I've seen and heard (specifically on the Taurus and F150) the Sub channels clip much earlier than the front tweeter and woofer leads. If you are combining signal, use the FLT, FLW, FRT and FRW, ignore the sub channel. It works much better. Not sure if this applies to Escape/Focus or Explorer systems.

Jay


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

cbrandonb said:


> Awesome. Really appreciate the reply!
> 
> I'm still debating on which processor to use. Do you know what load and power rating resistor I would need to use? And I assume it would be inline with the DSP, assuming the DSP doesn't provide a load (and I'd bet most don't)?
> 
> Brandon


https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-10-ohm-10w-10-wirewound-resistor-2-pack?variant=5717263429 is what all the focus guys are using.

http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/focus-st-electronics/77134d1418210669-must-read-if-you-upgrade-you-2014-s-stereo-avoid-damage-phokeysaudiosystemwithloadresistors_zpse6b8187c.jpg
Pictures say it better than i can.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Lots of different details among the different Ford and Ford w/Sony applications .... this site can be useful to find year and model-specific wiring diagrams

Search Wiring Diagrams

For the late model Fords the diagrams this site accesses are from the official Motorcraft Service Manuals.

Entertainment diagrams can be hard to find, often listed under a subsystem like "Driver Amenities", but if you dig you can find 'em.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

FYI my recent 'reprogramming' experience is documented here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...rogrammed-ford-head-unit-acm.html#post3668290

YMMV, I am unable to determine why I had the outcome presented in that thread.


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## Spart (Aug 15, 2016)

I can't take credit for this (thanks to Livinitup at the F150 Forum) but it seems to work across the current gen F150, Fusion, and Mustang.



Livnitup said:


> So these are the changes you'll want to make with FORScan in the ACM module:
> *Variable Line Level Preamp Outputs From ACM (for adding aftermarket amp without sound clipping)*
> ACM	727-01-01	xx5A	xxxx	xxxx
> ACM	727-01-02	00xx
> APIM	7D0-01-01	2xxx	xxxx	xxxx	<--- this change required only if you have Sony DSP


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## CSEmoses (Dec 15, 2010)

sorry to bump an old thread - i'm new to the whole can-bus car thing. 
Isn't what this thread was started for what is accomplished by a product like this?
pac-audio


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## CSEmoses (Dec 15, 2010)

came here for a @simplicityinsound hot hatch 2015 fiesta ST build thread. I'm researching a 2017 focus RS build for my new car, and learning as I go.


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## DanMc85 (Mar 25, 2016)

Spart said:


> I can't take credit for this (thanks to Livinitup at the F150 Forum) but it seems to work across the current gen F150, Fusion, and Mustang.




It came from my long thread on 2GFusions. There is a lot more info and wiring discussed there. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

DanMc85 said:


> It came from my long thread on 2GFusions. There is a lot more info and wiring discussed there.


Direct link to that useful thread 
Variable Line Level Preamp Outputs From ACM (Factory Radio) For Amplifer Upgrades

Thanks, Dan, for the updating info as this option has evolved.


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## Spart (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks!


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## JetExpress_6.7 (Mar 7, 2017)

New to you guys here...but not new to the forum scene.

I am looking to accomplish what you guys have here in my F250. I've found this all VERY informative and interesting, so thank you all for that. 

Background:
2014 F250 XLT with the base radio (i.e. AM/FM/CD with sync, no nav, no Sony sub/DSP, etc.) Will be adding two amps, one to door speakers and one to two 10" kenwood subs.

Questions/Request:
Will the modifications you all have found here (for Fusions and Escapes) crossover to my truck? And if so what lines need modified in the ACM as built to accomplish this?

Is OEM_Radio from 2gfusions on here as well? I would very much like to get one of his sweet audio harnesses to avoid splicing

Thank you all again!


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

JetExpress_6.7 said:


> Background:
> 2014 F250 XLT with the base radio (i.e. AM/FM/CD with sync, no nav, no Sony sub/DSP, etc.) Will be adding two amps, one to door speakers and one to two 10" kenwood subs.
> 
> Questions/Request:
> Will the modifications you all have found here (for Fusions and Escapes) crossover to my truck? And if so what lines need modified in the ACM as built to accomplish this?


I don't have a direct answer but three suggestions pending someone else chiming in (or maybe you've already run these to ground):

1. See Search Wiring Diagrams and download the diagrams for your truck (on the menu, "System" will be "Interior & Driver Amenity"; "Subsystem" will be "Entertainment (Audio Systems)")

With that you can perhaps figure out your unit/wiring in comparison to the diagrams DanMc85 has posted on the 2gfusions thread linked above.

2. See FORScan Spreadsheet - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - there seems of be a lot of audio module reprogramming info there, much of it credited to DanMc85, relating to F series trucks. The spreadsheet linked there is incredible in what it covers.

3. Try to raise DanMc85 either by PM here or maybe better PM at 2gfusions where he's a moderator. He seems to be the absolute Pro-From-Dover on all things Ford Audio System programming related (thank goodness for his work and info!).

You might try starting a thread here with reference in the title to your truck model to see if that grabs an F series owner's attention (but absolutely no objection from me for you to pursue it here, too)


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## JetExpress_6.7 (Mar 7, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> I don't have a direct answer but three suggestions pending someone else chiming in (or maybe you've already run these to ground):
> 
> 1. See *link* and download the diagrams for your truck (on the menu, "System" will be "Interior & Driver Amenity"; "Subsystem" will be "Entertainment (Audio Systems)")
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight. That wiring diagram database is awesome!

As far as the Forscan spreadsheets go, I have checked those out for a while now. In fact there are like 3 or 4 total floating around out there: the one you linked, '15-17 F150s, and '11-16 Super Duty's (can't post links yet...). As far as I can find, no one has really figured the coding out for the ACM except for you guys and the 15-17 F150 guys. Unfortunately I'm not sure I can transpose that knowledge directly over to my model and have it work. In fact, I have confirmation that the settings in the F150 spreadsheet was tried in a 2010 super duty and it did not yield the desired outcome (tested via o-scope).

Guess it may just take some trial and error on my part to figure it out, I just don't have a scope to test results with and have a conclusive outcome to report back.

I will try DanMc85 and see if he has more insight. Thanks for the help!


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## JetExpress_6.7 (Mar 7, 2017)

Also, I am trying to grasp all the verbiage floating around. Am I searching for line level output, variable output, fixed output, etc? 

I am using the signal as a traditional pre-amp connection to amplify subs and 3 way door speakers. Would like to just use stock HU to adjust EQ, balance/fade, and volume.


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## Spart (Aug 15, 2016)

JetExpress_6.7 said:


> Also, I am trying to grasp all the verbiage floating around. Am I searching for line level output, variable output, fixed output, etc?
> 
> I am using the signal as a traditional pre-amp connection to amplify subs and 3 way door speakers. Would like to just use stock HU to adjust EQ, balance/fade, and volume.


I think the "Variable Line Level Preamp Output" is exactly what you're after.

Ford also has a fixed line level preamp setting for use with the optional factory Sony amps. The Sony amp varies the volume and receives volume settings over canbus - this obviously isn't conducive to an aftermarket amp setup.


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## JetExpress_6.7 (Mar 7, 2017)

Spart said:


> I think the "Variable Line Level Preamp Output" is exactly what you're after.
> 
> Ford also has a fixed line level preamp setting for use with the optional factory Sony amps. The Sony amp varies the volume and receives volume settings over canbus - this obviously isn't conducive to an aftermarket amp setup.


Gotcha, thanks for the help!


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

DanMc85 said:


> It came from my long thread on 2GFusions. There is a lot more info and wiring discussed there.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi Dan. I tried to reply to your PM but your box is full


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## DanMc85 (Mar 25, 2016)

dawaro said:


> Hi Dan. I tried to reply to your PM but your box is full




Just email me... DanMc8510 at Gmail.com
or PM me on 2GF. 

This DIY box only allows a handful of messages stored. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Gmail sent. If you didn't get it let me know and I will resend.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## CSEmoses (Dec 15, 2010)

seriously, i don't know why you guys don't stop and buy the pac-audio device? 

Is it simply a matter of principal at this point or what? 
cost?
less wiring?


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## Spart (Aug 15, 2016)

It costs like $90 and a bit of your time to get the ODBLink MX unit, and you can do a *ton* of stuff with it outside of audio.

It was worth the $90 to me just to disable the ****ing double honk when you get out of your car with the engine running.

ETA: Setting the 12v power point to turn off immediately was a big win as well.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

For some folks it is a matter of wanting to keep the amount of devices in the signal chain to a minimum. For others it may be the challenge involved to do something that supposedly can't be done. Sometimes it is more about the hunt...

For folks like myself the PAC interface may end up being the best option. The Sony system in my truck only uses a stereo signal, no front and rear. I would like to have a rear signal but that may not be possible with programming. Even if it is possible it is going to require some extensive re-wiring.

Different folks, different strokes...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## DanMc85 (Mar 25, 2016)

dawaro said:


> Gmail sent. If you didn't get it let me know and I will resend.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I never got your message... either try again or you could send a PM. I cleared out the PM box.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

unix_usr said:


> Have you seen or ever come accross a "kit/harness" which can UN-do time delay and specific EQ gains/cuts? I tried with a JBL MS-8, but it was barely able to handle the un-eq portions and even then only if I never ever changed the volume.
> 
> ... I don't think you understand the point/thread here... the pre-amp output bit is only a secondary option



Yes the fix86 from JL and its performance is just ok 


I think PAC is making a harness that gives a variable rca coming from Sony preamp that's currently fixed via vol over data


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## Aggro (Jul 22, 2017)

Does this work with a 2015 Mustang with shaker pro?


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Aggro said:


> Does this work with a 2015 Mustang with shaker pro?


Not ignoring you but I don't _know_ the answer.

Review of the schematics for your system here Search Wiring Diagrams show a LOT of similarity between the Shaker system and Sony systems with remote DSP/amp/sub on Fusion/Escape as far as the APIM>ACM>DSP/amp interconnects, but there could be devilish detail differences that 'kill the deal' (all those ANC system features on yours, for example).

When you 'read' your system using FORScan, do you see PIDs and critical code digits that 'match-up' with those discussed here for reprogramming the ACM output?

FWIW I've not _yet_ 'bricked' anything by experimenting .... if a reprogram 'test' doesn't 'work' or 'do what's expected' I've (_so far_) been able to just restore the code to original and move forward.

YMMV, all at your own risk of course - same as with _any_ mod


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## Aggro (Jul 22, 2017)

I haven't ran any scanning device. I'm going to go speak with my service advisor who is always willing to help me out when I have other issues not normally covered by ford. Let's see if he and his techs can help. Anything specific I should ask them?


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Aggro said:


> Does this work with a 2015 Mustang with shaker pro?



Yes. Absolutely - 2015 mustang all have the same ACM module (all models).


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## i8urv8 (Jan 23, 2018)

I've done the variable line level output mod on a 2015 Focus ST and now I have a few problems. 
1. No fade/balance adjustment
2. No treble/bass adjustment
3. No volume dial on screen
4. No lights on the radio controls. 
5. A high pitch hiss, doesn't matter if the car is running or not. 

The RCA connections are soldered on at the connector in the trunk where the Sony amp was installed. 
Has anyone has any of these issues? I'm thinking of switching to the Rockford DSR1, but would prefer not to spend extra money.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

With ^ that ^ list of woes IMHO there's something screwed-up in your wiring mods, module reprogramming, or both.

This WORKS if you carefully follow all the instructions here Variable Line Level Preamp Outputs From ACM (Factory Radio) For Amplifier Upgrades recognizing that wire colors may vary between vehicles (e.g. Fusion vs Focus vs Escape) but the APIM, ACM and DSP connector pin assignments are constant.

I'd step back, take a break, then carefully verify ALL of your wiring mods including the ACM>APIM new wires you must have added for this to work on your Sony system.

Then, restore your OEM as-built ACM and APIM programming (you DID save that, didn't you?) and reprogram from scratch again being very careful to follow the instructions at that link.

Your "hiss" Issue _may_ be unrelated, but until you get the basic configuration right and working I wouldn't judge that.

Exactly what amp(s) and/or DSP have you installed to replace the OEM Sony DSP/amp module?


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## i8urv8 (Jan 23, 2018)

Thank you very much for the confirmation what I'm experiencing is not right. 
I have not yet added the wiring between the APIM and ACM, it was my understanding that was just to restore the voice prompts for navigation. I plan on doing it, but wanted to sort out some of the other problems first. 

I do not have a DSP, just a Pioneer 5 channel amp GM-D9605. I will say that I am very happy with how it sounds. 

Of course I backed it up before I jacked it up . I will try to restore the config tonight and see where that gets me. 


Thanks


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## LostnEye (Feb 18, 2016)

i8urv8 said:


> I'm thinking of switching to the Rockford DSR1, but would prefer not to spend extra money.


Just don't.


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## Mack (Jul 27, 2007)

Kind of grave-digging here, but I have a specific question. I have read a ton of pages regarding this, and have set the code to "00" sounds nice and even. Prroblem is you lose the factory TA. I have an external EQ I can use if needed, but don't have any equipment to fix the TA. 

Has anyone heard of any of the EQ ACM parameter (0-9) that has a flat output but retains the factory TA?

TIA


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

(Repeated as quoted reply instead)


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Mack said:


> Kind of grave-digging here, but I have a specific question. I have read a ton of pages regarding this, and have set the code to "00" sounds nice and even. Prroblem is you lose the factory TA. I have an external EQ I can use if needed, but don't have any equipment to fix the TA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No. TA is not contained in the eq profile setting. Thats controlled by the “listener position” setting. They are independent of each other. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mack (Jul 27, 2007)

unix_usr said:


> No. TA is not contained in the eq profile setting. Thats controlled by the “listener position” setting. They are independent of each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is.....smh

My ears were partially clogged in the morning (allergies and whatnot). The expanded bandwidth made it really hard to hear the shift that is super obvious with the Ford EQ output.


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## ckinslow (May 26, 2020)

FordEscape said:


> With the Non-Sony this is definitely true, there are only front L&R outputs from the HU (speaker level) and the XO/filter duties are managed by speaker-mounted caps & coils mounted on the OEM speakers.
> 
> From the HU to the DSP in the Sony System there are only front and rear L&R outputs, not separated for tweeter vs woofer.
> 
> ...


Was wanting to know if you know the hex code for variable line in? I have a IDS to do it just dont know where to find the code.
Thanks


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