# SQ of the Arc Audio Mini's



## Jboogie

Im gonna dump my Tru Steel S25 and S45 (long story)... Looking for something small with above average SQ (and works with factory HU). The Arc Mini's are small but i know nothing of their SQ. Ive run Alpine V12 amps, JL Audio Slash, MMats, Image Dynamics, Rockford Fosgate and MTX. Are they better or compare to any of the above in SQ? 

Thanks.


----------



## ChrisB

Are you going with the KAR Series or the XXD?


----------



## Jboogie

the mini's are under the KS line.


----------



## RedMed427

Im interested as well


----------



## IBcivic

IIRC member "qualitysound" has used them in the past and had nothing but good things to say about them. Try ringing him up via P-M


----------



## ChrisB

Just checking because I've seen others call the XXD "mini" amps based on their size. Regardless, I really liked the Ubuy amplifiers similar to the Arc Audio KS line, and I am seriously thinking about putting the KS line in my vehicle next based on the performance of the Clarion APX/DPX amplifiers that I tried out.

While the temptation to just go with the lower cost alternative clones, such as the Vibe Litebox, are there, I'd still rather run the Arc Audio versions. A KS300.4 and a KS1000.1 would fit my needs perfectly!


----------



## Arclight

I had the same question. I thought about using the Arc's in my upcoming build, however, saw that they are Class D as opposes to Class AB - unless I read the specs wrong. I was under the impression that AB is better for SQ and D for sub amps. Anyways, decided against them even though they are perfect for my lightweight/small footprint needs

Maybe somebody can clarify the SQ thing on AB vs. D for me... I'm getting back into car audio after a 5+ year hiatus


----------



## ChrisB

The KS series are class GH. To simplify things, think of it as a Class AB amplifier with a switching power supply. That allows them to be more efficient at lower volume levels because all the power supply FETS aren't on 100% of the time like your typical class AB amplifiers.


----------



## IBcivic

The arc minis are of the class g/h design....same as the larger ks series. The xxd series are class D and from what I have heard from a trustworthy source is that the XXDs are entry level and the power supplies are weak.


----------



## Arclight

> The KS series are class GH. To simplify things, think of it as a Class AB amplifier with a switching power supply. That allows them to be more efficient at lower volume levels because all the power supply FETS aren't on 100% of the time like your typical class AB amplifiers.


KH...a new Class of amp to me (either that or my car audio memory needs refreshing). Thanks Chris for clarifying this! Everything Arc makes is pretty nice so I'm sure these amps are no exception.


----------



## tyroneshoes

Out of the ubuy/arc mini/litebox/elfs the nices by far is the Etons and they happen to put out more power and have better specs. Just impossible to hunt down them all in the us.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eton-mini-125-2-best-ubuy-mini-arc-audio.html


----------



## NucFusion

I ran a ks125.2 mini in my 2005 mustang powering a set of 6x8 components in the front doors. The amp did everything I needed it to do. In terms of sound quality, I felt it was really good. No noise at all and enough power fr my application and listening preference. To me, I couldn't tell much difference between the arc mini and the front channels I was running from a jl audio 300/4 previously. The best thing about the arc is the size and weight of the amp. It really can be mounted anywhere and totally stealth. Also, all the controls/adjustments are easy to access on the top of the amp. If you can get a good deal on a mini, I wouldn't hesitate one bit.


----------



## turbo5upra

I know they aren't the same but I run 3 ks300.2's in my car and the old lady just bought a 900.6...... so far we are digging em.


----------



## adhumston

tyroneshoes said:


> Out of the ubuy/arc mini/litebox/elfs the nices by far is the Etons and they happen to put out more power and have better specs. Just impossible to hunt down them all in the us.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eton-mini-125-2-best-ubuy-mini-arc-audio.html


Now if the amps are identical (as everyone says) other than the heatsink/control layout, how can one put out any more power and have different specs than the others?

To the OP... I ran a 125.4 bridged to a set of Dynaudio components ran passive and I was definately not lacking in power. As far as the SQ goes, the only amps I can directly compare it to are an Alpine MRP-f240 ran bridged and a Helix mka-400 ran bridged. They all powered the same comps at one time... the Arc was better than the Alpine (but only because it doubled the power), and the Helix was unsurprisingly the best of the three. I wouldn't hesitate to run the Arc minis again however, and may even get another 500.1 for the sub in my truck.


----------



## tyroneshoes

adhumston said:


> Now if the amps are identical (as everyone says) other than the heatsink/control layout, how can one put out any more power and have different specs than the others?
> 
> To the OP... I ran a 125.4 bridged to a set of Dynaudio components ran passive and I was definately not lacking in power. As far as the SQ goes, the only amps I can directly compare it to are an Alpine MRP-f240 ran bridged and a Helix mka-400 ran bridged. They all powered the same comps at one time... the Arc was better than the Alpine (but only because it doubled the power), and the Helix was unsurprisingly the best of the three. I wouldn't hesitate to run the Arc minis again however, and may even get another 500.1 for the sub in my truck.


Dont know. Thats just what someone said they tested as in some euro mag. Ca&e tested the arc to do a little under spec


----------



## adhumston

tyroneshoes said:


> Dont know. Thats just what someone said they tested as in some euro mag. Ca&e tested the arc to do a little under spec


He said, she said... PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - ARC AUDIO KS 125.4 In a nutshell the reviewer found the 125.4 mini to exceed rated power as well as S/N exceeding published specs.

I don't honestly know how the Eton/Elf/Arc amps compare as I've never used them all nor seen published test specs of them all. But to state that Eton is better because *"that's just what someone said they tested as in some euro mag."* does the OP a disservice.


----------



## tyroneshoes

adhumston said:


> He said, she said... PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - ARC AUDIO KS 125.4 In a nutshell the reviewer found the 125.4 mini to exceed rated power as well as S/N exceeding published specs.
> 
> I don't honestly know how the Eton/Elf/Arc amps compare as I've never used them all nor seen published test specs of them all. But to state that Eton is better because *"that's just what someone said they tested as in some euro mag."* does the OP a disservice.


Weird right, how some amps of the same model have different numbers on their birthsheets. 

Youre right. I should not have pointed out a lower cost alternative that offers better or equal to performance, looks better aesthetically imo and is not overpriced because of the oval on the chassis. Huge disservice.


----------



## adhumston

tyroneshoes said:


> Out of the ubuy/arc mini/litebox/elfs the *nices by far is the Etons and they happen to put out more power and have better specs.* Just impossible to hunt down them all in the us.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eton-mini-125-2-best-ubuy-mini-arc-audio.html


The highlited comment is what I was referring to, as you're well aware. You have absolutely nothing to back that statement up other than "that's just what someone said they tested as in some euro mag.". The fact that you linked your ad directly below that statement makes it rather obvious you're just trying to push your own equipment to sell. 

THAT DOES THE OP A DISSERVICE. 

I have nothing at all against offering unbiased opinions and pointing out alternatives, and in fact don't even have a problem with you linking your sale. It's just the manner in which you did it that irked me. 

I agree the Eton is definately the best looking of the Arc clones. Better performance and specs?? NO, not if they're the same amp. Arc Minis underrated? NO. At least not in any test I've read. Better value? I have no doubt that if the Eton/Vibe/Elfs are in fact the same amps, then yes, they are the better value.


----------



## tyroneshoes

Well here you go. The arc 2 channel makes just under spec and overstated specs like dampening. Here's the test.

http://www.ianaconi.com.br/midia/performance_ks125.2mini.pdf


Then someone in my FS thread tells me they read a magazine where the Eton benched 107 watts a channel. Over 30 more watts at 4 ohms than the arc counterpart. I say, "must be something special in this amp" in my thread and even comment that all the arc/ubuys seems to bench around their rated numbers so I was surprised.

So I stand by what I said nicer, (aesthetically) better specs (power) though a source proving it would really seal my deal. All the other specs are identical to arc's but the (supposedly) Eton far exceeds the power provided by the arc. If the guy had a source, then Id be 100% accurate, I still probably am as I don't know why someone would come into my fs thread and say "nice amp, in an article I read it did 107 watts". Doesnt seem to serve any purpose to make a lie like that and I am not that poster nor do I know him.

I am also comparing the 2 channel to the 2 channel.


----------



## quality_sound

amitaF said:


> IIRC member "qualitysound" has used them in the past and had nothing but good things to say about them. Try ringing him up via P-M



Correct, I switched from Zapco DC Refs to the Minis and everything about the system sounded better, most notably the sub. I ran a 500.1 to a 10W6v2, a 125.4 bridged to RS225s and a 125.4 in 4-channel mode to L4s and ND25s.


----------



## turbo5upra

just switched the old ladies car to active on a ks900.6. Nice amp! 

I really like all of my ks amps.


----------



## tyroneshoes

Why does it seem no one keeps their vibe liteboxes?


----------



## quality_sound

I'm not opening that can of worms again.


----------



## ryan s

Buying stuff at a good price, which you don't *really *need, will have that effect...

People were buying 2-4 4-channels when they were $139 or whatever. The same thing happened when the Zeff Clarions were on closeout a couple years ago.

Likewise, I think there's a little heatsink brand "compensation" going on with both unbranded and underbranded (™) stuff. Why install a "Vibe" when you could have a JL or Zapco or...


----------



## tyroneshoes

I know. I bought the vibe 4 chan and mono just because of the price. I also got that eton but havent hooked them up. Just seems like people try them then resell them. 

Not trying to start a flame war but has anyone a/b'd the vibes or arcs or any of the ubuy counterparts?


----------



## ryan s

Somebody said the Arcs use better quality capacitors than the other Ubuys. I *really *wish I could remember the thread in which the differences were laid out :worried:

They might futz with small things here and there, of course, depending on who commissions the design.


----------



## tyroneshoes

ryan s said:


> Somebody said the Arcs use better quality capacitors than the other Ubuys. I *really *wish I could remember the thread in which the differences were laid out :worried:
> 
> They might futz with small things here and there, of course, depending on who commissions the design.


If what the person said is true and the eton benches at 107x2 and the arc at 75x2, there may be more differences to these amps than believed, thats just why Im curious if someone a/b these.


----------



## MTU_Husky

ChrisB said:


> Just checking because I've seen others call the XXD "mini" amps based on their size. Regardless, I really liked the Ubuy amplifiers similar to the Arc Audio KS line, and I am seriously thinking about putting the KS line in my vehicle next based on the performance of the Clarion APX/DPX amplifiers that I tried out.
> 
> While the temptation to just go with the lower cost alternative clones, such as the Vibe Litebox, are there, I'd still rather run the Arc Audio versions. A KS300.4 and a KS1000.1 would fit my needs perfectly!


Chris, those amps are not the Mini versions and are about the same size as the Clarion XH5410 and XH7110 but cost twice as much as teh Clarion units, I would definitely get the Clarions over the regular KS line, now if we are talking the KS125.4 mini and 500.1 mini then those are the smaller amps that are pretty much identical to the Vibes.


----------



## IBcivic

ryan s said:


> Somebody said the Arcs use better quality capacitors than the other Ubuys. I *really *wish I could remember the thread in which the differences were laid out :worried:
> 
> They might futz with small things here and there, of course, depending on who commissions the design.


IIRC, it was an engineer from that works for the design house, and confirmed that the arc products were built, using better spec components and that each "brand" that uses the common board, had their particular "specs" designed into their amps. same beef, different gravy....


----------



## envisionelec

ChrisB said:


> The KS series are class GH. To simplify things, think of it as a Class AB amplifier with a switching power supply. That allows them to be more efficient at lower volume levels because all the power supply FETS aren't on 100% of the time like your typical class AB amplifiers.


Not to be picky, but they're all switching power supplies - the GH means it modulates the voltage rails with the audio signal to minimize power dissipation in the output devices.


----------



## ChrisB

envisionelec said:


> Not to be picky, but they're all switching power supplies - the GH means it modulates the voltage rails with the audio signal to minimize power dissipation in the output devices.


Whoops, I stand corrected. I should know better than that too since I've measured rail voltage on several pure class ab amplifiers. I was just repeating what was told to me by someone who sold them. Come to think of it, I think we have a myth within a myth!:laugh:


----------



## turbo5upra

not to be picky but on the bench the other day my ks900.6 was drawing 6 or 7 amps on idle!

I was shocked by this.


----------



## quality_sound

Arc tends to bias their A/B amps a bit towards the A side which would explain this.


----------



## Southnash

Also factor in the warranty on the products you buy... I trust ARC AUDIO alot more than I would other "knock-offs" of the product. If I DID have a issue, who would I want helping me resolve my problem??? The amplifier is great & sounds amazing....you will love it!!


----------



## Paul1217

My understanding of the ARC mini's is that they're designed by Robert Zeff so based on his reputation I can't believe that they would be anything other than stellar sounding. I'm planning on runnin a hand full of them in my truck.


----------



## DS-21

amitaF said:


> IIRC, it was an engineer from that works for the design house, and confirmed that the arc products were built, using better spec components


Do you have a link to that? I remember some ******** from Fred Lynch, but that's it. 



Southnash said:


> Also factor in the warranty on the products you buy... I trust ARC AUDIO alot more than I would other "knock-offs" of the product.


None of them are "knock offs." They're all rebadged Ubuy Industrial product. Let's not use incorrect terminology to support an agenda, OK?

As for warranty, one would presume that Clarion, Cerwin Vega, Phoenix Gold, Vibe Audio, etc. also have warranties. How each one compares, I've no idea.

Moreover, saying on the one hand "they're better quality than the other brands with the same guts" and on the other "if it's a dud they've got you covered" is of course talking out of both sides of one's ass. 

Lastly, is it really too hard to use the shift key instead of caps lock when spelling out the same of the marketing firm in question?



Southnash said:


> The amplifier is great & sounds amazing....


If it sounds like anything, it's a POS. Fortunately, those of us with some sense know that Ubuy Industrial amps have no sound, just like all other compentently-designed amps. 

So yes, the Ubuy Piccolo amps (which is what the Arc, elfAudio*, Eton, Vibe, Wet Sounds, etc. mini amps all are, under the branded heatsink) are just fine sonically, small, and perhaps a little underpowered for their size/weight compared to more modern class D designs. But they're also narrower, which is why some of us use them. Because they are narrow and longish, they fit in spaces that most current small amps (which tend to be more square in form-factor) may not.

*The 2125X, not the the mini Class D monobloc one they have been selling on eBay. That one is not a Ubuy amp. The mini-monoblock amp seems to be made by a company called Dongguan Hardwin Co.Ltd. Here is that particular amp, which does not appear on Ubuy Industrial's website.


----------



## Niebur3

^^^ Here we go again. 

I have said my peace many times, so I will remain just an observer...please carry on. :lurk:


----------



## cleansoundz

Good thread.


----------



## Arthurk

Southnash said:


> Also factor in the warranty on the products you buy... I trust ARC AUDIO alot more than I would other "knock-offs" of the product. If I DID have a issue, who would I want helping me resolve my problem??? The amplifier is great & sounds amazing....you will love it!!


This is so very true! I have sent many amps that kids had abused and I bought used from various places, sent them back to Arc and they always send them back to me fixed or replaced and have NEVER charged me a dime. Now, granted, they know I have spent many thousands on new products from them, but I can always get someone on the phone there and they stand behind their products, which I love. I have many Ks series and SE series and love them all.


----------



## cleansoundz

I hooked up my KS 125.4 and for an amp that small to produce that kind of sound is nothing short of amazing. I honestly haven't heard an amp sound so good since my JL Audio 300/4.


----------

