# Zapco Z-AP - SQ Audiophile Competition Series (New Flagship SQ Amp)



## BMW Alpina

I notice Zapco just posted

Zapco Z-AP - SQ Audiophile Competition Series on their website:

https://www.zapco.com/z-ap-series

It's their newest Flagship SQ Amp !

Anybody here had advance preview of their performance?


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## JimmyDee

Doesn't look like they have even posted any real specs... 

To be honest, these appear to be the LX Series, with a new paint job. Not much more.
They have _'upgraded'_ a few of the parts that they had failure issues with in the past.
Putting the OP-Amps into plugin modules doesn't improve the sound quality... it just makes it easier to repair/replace.

I'm a huge Zapco supporter, and I have no doubt that these are nice sounding amps.
But my hunch is that; this is marketing for maintenance purpose, more than it is for creating a better sounding amp.


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## Huckleberry Sound

MMMMM MMMMMMM!!!!


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## SkizeR

jimmydee said:


> Doesn't look like they have even posted any real specs...
> 
> To be honest, these appear to be the LX Series, with a new paint job. Not much more.
> They have _'upgraded'_ a few of the parts that they had failure issues with in the past.
> Putting the OP-Amps into plugin modules doesn't improve the sound quality... it just makes it easier to repair/replace.
> 
> I'm a huge Zapco supporter, and I have no doubt that these are nice sounding amps.
> But my hunch is that; this is marketing for maintenance purpose, more than it is for creating a better sounding amp.


After talking to the distributor on the phone a few days before they were announced, there was something like a 20% part change

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Porsche

the amps match the LX amps in power, they will cost 20% more as well. i am replacing mine with them


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## nineball76

So we should be seeing a bunch of LX coming up for sale soon?

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


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## BMW Alpina

jimmydee said:


> Doesn't look like they have even posted any real specs...
> 
> To be honest, these appear to be the LX Series, with a new paint job. Not much more.
> They have _'upgraded'_ a few of the parts that they had failure issues with in the past.
> Putting the OP-Amps into plugin modules doesn't improve the sound quality... it just makes it easier to repair/replace.
> 
> I'm a huge Zapco supporter, and I have no doubt that these are nice sounding amps.
> But my hunch is that; this is marketing for maintenance purpose, more than it is for creating a better sounding amp.


I totally agree with you,

Back in early October...
I was trying to place an order for a Z-150.6LX 
but the Z-150.6LX was out of stock at one of the dealer that offer very good deal for Z-150.6LX.

Then I heard this rumor that there will be a new Flag Ship improved version of the Z-150.6LX that will launch near CES in January 2018,
so I decide to wait longer...
and while I wait, I got bored and start looking at other brand...

From what the upgraded parts I see on this Z-AP, 
it is not that much more than the LX series ...

At one point I heard they might use Muses op-amp, 
I was excited because that mean it would match the Muses op-amp
in the Sony RSX-GS9... 
I even thought of upgrading all the op-amp in my Zapco ASP-X4 active crossover to Muses op-amp...

Looks like that is not the case...
anyway, I think I still just have to wait a bit longer and save money for a Brax MX4, and be done with it...

in the meantime, just so my system can start making sound,
I bought and today I am going to install a cheap new Sony XM-GS4 amp


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## BMW Alpina

nineball76 said:


> So we should be seeing a bunch of LX coming up for sale soon?
> 
> Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


I think that is why we already see several Brand New LX amp going on great sale price lately at classified section of this forum right before the launch of this new amp...


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## JimmyDee

BMW Alpina said:


> I think I still just have to wait a bit longer and save money for a Brax MX4, and be done with it...


This.


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## Porsche

dunno how you can doubt the AP amps will be better, thats pretty silly IMO

1) high res pots
2) wima caps in the signal path
3) double the output devices
4) better op amps that the user can plug and play with other op amps
5) better resistors thru out, instead of 1% they now use .1%
6) perfectly matches output devices


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## Locomotive Tech

I have already made my choice! This is the amp I have settled on, I am also eagerly awaiting the new Zapco DSP V.


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## JimmyDee

Porsche said:


> dunno how you can doubt the AP amps will be better, thats pretty silly IMO


I'm a huge Zapco fanboy... but I'm also an electrical engineer, and most of what you've listed below adds-up to _Marketing 101 for Suckers_... 

1) *high res pots* - c'mon... did you look at the picture? these are cheap bias pots, made by Electron (pennies a piece)

2) *wima caps in the signal path* - This is the only thing that I would say would offer better sound resolution... I'll wait to see actual published specs. This is kinda like the old Nichicon vs. Etna argument. In real life, I doubt there's be any audible difference. Each brand produces its own sound... neither one is better, just different.

3) *double the output devices* - This might be an improvement, in the fact that it would allow a slightly higher voltage to the output devices. Doubt it would improve sound quality, but it would lower the noise floor. 

4) *better op amps that the user can plug and play with other op amps* - Are they better? Published results please. The reality is that; Zapco had failure issues in the past, and this is just a means to easily remove / replace them. 

5) *better resistors thru out, instead of 1% they now use .1%* - means nothing in real life... there really is no difference in the cost of .1% or 1% or 5% resistors. So why not pick the lowest value and brag about it. It's marketing hype. 

6) *perfectly matches output devices* - this isn't an improvement over the Z-LX (which also has matched output devices)

In no way am I saying these won't be great amps... I have no doubt that they will be.
If you are in the market for a new amp, then I still say these (or the Z-LX) are absolutely premium.
But I do think there's a lot of marketing BS attached to them...


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## mrichard89

Very interested in these amps, but I’m personally not a huge fan of the copper top piece. I wish I could put this technology inside the Z-SP heatsink. Maybe I can.


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## SnakeOil

I’ve never understood paying this much for any electronic. They never hold any value and become outdated in a month. Good for you but not for me.


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## Porsche

SnakeOil said:


> I’ve never understood paying this much for any electronic. They never hold any value and become outdated in a month. Good for you but not for me.


same goes for 99% of everything in life


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## sq2k1

I'll just stick with my LX amp.... When I first saw the announcement for these amps of course I was like these could be interesting but I would need a lot more convincing to want to try them. These might at best be a small upgrade over the current offerings and as such, not worth the hassle of trying to sell my current amps for a marginal upgrade at best. But I will keep my eye on them out of curiosity and see if maybe I can be convinced otherwise.


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## Porsche

sq2k1 said:


> I'll just stick with my LX amp.... When I first saw the announcement for these amps of course I was like these could be interesting but I would need a lot more convincing to want to try them. These might at best be a small upgrade over the current offerings and as such, not worth the hassle of trying to sell my current amps for a marginal upgrade at best. But I will keep my eye on them out of curiosity and see if maybe I can be convinced otherwise.


curious what amps would you consider a substantial upgrade over the LX?


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## Lycancatt

Huckleberry Sound said:


> MMMMM MMMMMMM!!!!



do you ever post anything of worth?or are we just a selling platform to you..seriously, posts like this are annoying


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## sq2k1

Porsche said:


> curious what amps would you consider a substantial upgrade over the LX?


Porsche, My point is that I really do not see many other amps if any as a substantial upgrade, hence why I am electing to stay with the LX. This new line seems like a small upgrade if even that over the LX line in my opinion, but its just that, an opinion.


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## SnakeOil

Porsche said:


> same goes for 99% of everything in life


I’m going out on a limb here. Your amps are displayed right? If so I can see wanting the latest and greatest. You wouldn’t want to be caught dead with last years fashion.


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## Porsche

SnakeOil said:


> I’m going out on a limb here. Your amps are displayed right? If so I can see wanting the latest and greatest. You wouldn’t want to be caught dead with last years fashion.


nope, they are hidden and i can see now that you are a troll. have a nice day


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## bnae38

:snacks:


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## SnakeOil

Porsche said:


> nope, they are hidden and i can see now that you are a troll. have a nice day


That wasn’t intended to be a troll. I know in my day looks mattered just as much as what it sounded like. I doubt it’s any different today. 
Sorry if I offended you. I’m just a nobody in this big pond.


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## cmusic

I've owned Brax in the past and I have had Z-LX amps in my system for a little over a year. My old Brax X2400 was the best amp I ever owned in nearly 30 years of being in car audio. The Z-LXs are a close second. I bought my two Z-LXs gently used and at a total less than half of a new Brax MX4 amp. 

The new Z-AP amps look to be a slight improvement over the Z-LXs and should be a great option for car-audiophiles looking for a great amp but not on a nearly unlimited budget. However I think I will stay with my Z-LXs until I can afford a couple of MX4s and a MX2, and the new Brax processor.


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## JimmyDee

cmusic said:


> I think I will stay with my Z-LXs until I can afford a couple of MX4s and a MX2, and the new Brax processor.


This. Exactly this.


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## SkizeR

Lycancatt said:


> do you ever post anything of worth?or are we just a selling platform to you..seriously, posts like this are annoying


Thump!


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## RockamyZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE


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## Locomotive Tech

Come on guys........he was just foolin about


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## Golden Ear

I like the look of the new amps. I think then LXs “sound” fantastic so even if the improvement is marginal, an improvement in any way will be welcomed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## barracuda777

cmusic said:


> I've owned Brax in the past and I have had Z-LX amps in my system for a little over a year. My old Brax X2400 was the best amp I ever owned in nearly 30 years of being in car audio. The Z-LXs are a close second. I bought my two Z-LXs gently used and at a total less than half of a new Brax MX4 amp.
> 
> The new Z-AP amps look to be a slight improvement over the Z-LXs and should be a great option for car-audiophiles looking for a great amp but not on a nearly unlimited budget. However I think I will stay with my Z-LXs until I can afford a couple of MX4s and a MX2, and the new Brax processor.


Will have to wait for a while this Brax processor.... development was canceled



jimmydee said:


> I'm a huge Zapco fanboy... but I'm also an electrical engineer, and most of what you've listed below adds-up to _Marketing 101 for Suckers_...
> 
> 1) *high res pots* - c'mon... did you look at the picture? these are cheap bias pots, made by Electron (pennies a piece)
> 
> 2) *wima caps in the signal path* - This is the only thing that I would say would offer better sound resolution... I'll wait to see actual published specs. This is kinda like the old Nichicon vs. Etna argument. In real life, I doubt there's be any audible difference. Each brand produces its own sound... neither one is better, just different.
> 
> 3) *double the output devices* - This might be an improvement, in the fact that it would allow a slightly higher voltage to the output devices. Doubt it would improve sound quality, but it would lower the noise floor.
> 
> 4) *better op amps that the user can plug and play with other op amps* - Are they better? Published results please. The reality is that; Zapco had failure issues in the past, and this is just a means to easily remove / replace them.
> 
> 5) *better resistors thru out, instead of 1% they now use .1%* - means nothing in real life... there really is no difference in the cost of .1% or 1% or 5% resistors. So why not pick the lowest value and brag about it. It's marketing hype.
> 
> 6) *perfectly matches output devices* - this isn't an improvement over the Z-LX (which also has matched output devices)
> 
> In no way am I saying these won't be great amps... I have no doubt that they will be.
> If you are in the market for a new amp, then I still say these (or the Z-LX) are absolutely premium.
> But I do think there's a lot of marketing BS attached to them...


Resistors in the pre-amp sections are 0.1% now
OpAmp used are TI OP2604 BB for pre-amp and
TI LME49723 for the inputs sections
Double output drivers with high voltage rail.
Regulated power supply
Same high efficiency insulator used in SP line (less thermal resistance of MICA for faster heat transfer)
SN now is 107db


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## captainobvious

I had the original Z series when they came out. I wasn't a fan of several things about them. first, they had cheap board mounted rca connections and the sleeves would pop off when unplugging rca's - not good for a premium amplifier. In addition, the noise floor was a good bit higher than I care for.
Then Zapco released the Z-LX series. They installed tiffany style, panel mounted rca's and the noise floor was slightly lower. Now they have a nice cosmetic upgrade and some additional performance upgrades. If that lowers the noise floor to the level of the top tier amps, they have a real winner. That's the only thing I can find to have any gripe about with the LX series (and it's not bad), so I'm looking forward to demoing one of the new Z-AP's. Personally, I think they look great too.


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## cmusic

captainobvious said:


> ....
> Then Zapco released the Z-LX series. They installed tiffany style, panel mounted rca's and the noise floor was slightly lower. Now they have a nice cosmetic upgrade and some additional performance upgrades. If that lowers the noise floor to the level of the top tier amps, they have a real winner. That's the only thing I can find to have any gripe about with the LX series (and it's not bad), so I'm looking forward to demoing one of the new Z-AP's. Personally, I think they look great too.


Funny thing about noise floors, when I had my Brax X2400 back in 2003-2004 I ran an Alpine F#1 Status PXA-H900 processor with it along with Scan Speak Revelator 12M mids and the older version of the current D3004/6020 tweeter. On the IASCA test disk the fade to 0 bits track the music would switch to 0 bits at 1:17 and have a level of -70 dB. In my system I could hear the noise gate in the recording studio click shut at 1:17. After 1:17 it was dead silence. I did not have a noise gate in the system, although some IASCA judges said I did. I even had some judges dock me points because they thought the "click" at 1:17 was some kind of problem in my system. I simply had my system's gain structure set up to have a S/N ratio greater than 70 dB, which was the test track's limit. 

Currently I have my Z-LXs sitting in my closet awaiting for me to buy a new vehicle for me to install them in. But when they were in my car last year, in my tuning with my Helix DSP-Pro MKII and the Z-LXs, I could also hear the noise gate click at 1:17 on the same test track. 

Plus most people with perfect hearing can only hear a dynamic range of about 75-80 dB. So I figure that any amp with a S/N ratio above 85-90 dB should not have an audible noise floor problem given the entire system's gain structure is set correctly and all other equipment in the system has as good or better specifications. Of course, the better the specifications are, generally the better the equipment is. 

I like to use the Autosound 2000 Test CD #104 and a good (but cheap) oscilloscope to set gains. The CD can be bought here: Navone Engineering Inc. » CD-104 AUTOSOUND 2000 Test Software

A decent oscilloscope can be found here: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01MSJCUA7/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IGU5BKFYTDKD8&colid=2L8G4AKPI31HS&psc=1


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## benny z

i have matrix amps and am eager to get my hands on a new ap amp to do some side-by-side testing.


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## benny z

barracuda777 said:


> Will have to wait for a while this Brax processor.... development was canceled


and where did you hear that?

that's not what i heard.

i did hear some things...but that's not it.


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## captainobvious

cmusic said:


> Funny thing about noise floors, when I had my Brax X2400 back in 2003-2004 I ran an Alpine F#1 Status PXA-H900 processor with it along with Scan Speak Revelator 12M mids and the older version of the current D3004/6020 tweeter. On the IASCA test disk the fade to 0 bits track the music would switch to 0 bits at 1:17 and have a level of -70 dB. In my system I could hear the noise gate in the recording studio click shut at 1:17. After 1:17 it was dead silence. I did not have a noise gate in the system, although some IASCA judges said I did. I even had some judges dock me points because they thought the "click" at 1:17 was some kind of problem in my system. I simply had my system's gain structure set up to have a S/N ratio greater than 70 dB, which was the test track's limit.
> 
> Currently I have my Z-LXs sitting in my closet awaiting for me to buy a new vehicle for me to install them in. But when they were in my car last year, in my tuning with my Helix DSP-Pro MKII and the Z-LXs, I could also hear the noise gate click at 1:17 on the same test track.
> 
> Plus most people with perfect hearing can only hear a dynamic range of about 75-80 dB. So I figure that any amp with a S/N ratio above 85-90 dB should not have an audible noise floor problem given the entire system's gain structure is set correctly and all other equipment in the system has as good or better specifications. Of course, the better the specifications are, generally the better the equipment is.
> 
> I like to use the Autosound 2000 Test CD #104 and a good (but cheap) oscilloscope to set gains. The CD can be bought here: Navone Engineering Inc. » CD-104 AUTOSOUND 2000 Test Software
> 
> A decent oscilloscope can be found here: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01MSJCUA7/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IGU5BKFYTDKD8&colid=2L8G4AKPI31HS&psc=1




I demo'd a series of amplifiers on a switcher with all reference gear being the same and level matched. The Genesis amplifiers had a very low noise floor and the lowest of them all was the Brax Matrix series. Even with gain at dead minimum on the Zapco, I still had some audible noise floor vs the others, but it's not like it's obnoxious and of course once you have music playing, not really a big deal. The sound when they are playing is excellent though. Looking forward to hearing the new update too.

I also use a decent Oscope (and have the autosound 2000 suite as well)


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## benny z

captainobvious said:


> I demo'd a series of amplifiers on a switcher with all reference gear being the same and level matched. The Genesis amplifiers had a very low noise floor and the lowest of them all was the Brax Matrix series. Even with gain at dead minimum on the Zapco, I still had some audible noise floor vs the others, but it's not like it's obnoxious and of course once you have music playing, not really a big deal. The sound when they are playing is excellent though. Looking forward to hearing the new update too.
> 
> I also use a decent Oscope (and have the autosound 2000 suite as well)


agreed - the s/n ratio of the z-lx wasn't anything to write home about... it doesn't surprise me you heard some noise. that is the biggest improvement of the ap line imo - the s/n ratio is now... >107db? should be a marked improvement. i think it was rated at >90db w/ z-lx.


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## lowcel

I've got three of the new AP amps on order (a 150.6AP and two 400.2AP's) and I can't wait to try them out. My only complaint with my LX was a slight bit of noise. With the AP's s/n being 110ish compared to the 90ish of the LX's these amps should be absolutely amazing.


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## BMW Alpina

lowcel said:


> I've got three of the new AP amps on order (a 150.6AP and two 400.2AP's) and I can't wait to try them out. My only complaint with my LX was a slight bit of noise. With the AP's s/n being 110ish compared to the 90ish of the LX's these amps should be absolutely amazing.


Please write a review on your new AP once you received it,
When are you expecting this new AP amp will arrive?
Thanks


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## SnakeOil

I can’t imagine an amp that cost as much as the LX having noise.


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## lowcel

BMW Alpina said:


> Please write a review on your new AP once you received it,
> When are you expecting this new AP amp will arrive?
> Thanks


I believe the team will be receiving them by the end of February.


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## SkizeR

just got word that these will be out very soon. 

Pricing as follows
Z-150.2AP - $699.95
Z-150.4AP - $1166.95
Z-150.6AP - $1399.95
Z-400.2AP - $1249.95


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## lowcel

SkizeR said:


> just got word that these will be out very soon.
> 
> Pricing as follows
> Z-150.2AP - $699.95
> Z-150.4AP - $1166.95
> Z-150.6AP - $1399.95
> Z-400.2AP - $1249.95


Less than I expected them to be. That's always a good thing.


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## TerryGreen5986

??????????????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BrainMach1

Skizer, you have a PM. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

BrainMach1 said:


> Skizer, you have a PM.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


didnt get one..?


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## SnakeOil

Can you confirm the country of origin? I’m sure that’s not as important as it used to be but still a question


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## toneloc2

lowcel said:


> I've got three of the new AP amps on order (a 150.6AP and two 400.2AP's) and I can't wait to try them out. My only complaint with my LX was a slight bit of noise. With the AP's s/n being 110ish compared to the 90ish of the LX's these amps should be absolutely amazing.


any update or review on these yet


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## SkizeR

Oops, forgot to post these. I'll let Josh comment on how they are.


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## Golden Ear

Great shots, Skiz! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

Golden Ear said:


> Great shots, Skiz!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Some of these are mine, and some of these are Matei's (my part time employee). Hes only part time because hes to busy running his own photography business, and hes damn good at it.


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## D34dl1fter

Nick and Matei both take incredible pics, I'm amazed each time I've seen their work....

The amps are without a doubt better for 2 definite reasons...there could be more but initially these 2 are biggest
1. The much lower noise floor compared to the lx 
2. There is without question more detail coming out with the amp swap from lx to ap...I changed nothing else but amps


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## mmiller

Another Bitchin’ install Nick! I always enjoy seeing your work.




SkizeR said:


> Oops, forgot to post these. I'll let Josh comment on how they are.


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## Lycancatt

I'm glad the noise floor was addressed, that was my main issue with these amps. solid performers otherwise


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## toneloc2

well i guess i made the right choice, my z150.6 ap is being shipped. should have in two weeks...


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## 89grand

They look nice, and the Zapco name is cool sounding, and always has been, but at least for me, amplifiers, so long as they produce the power you expect, can handle the impedance you will be presenting, and have no weird noise issues, are the least important aspect of an audio system as far as components are concerned (speaker wire and cables I don't consider components). 

The most expensive amp I ever bought was a PPI A600.2 new for around $600 dollars. My fairly cheap Rockford Fosgate Prime R750-1D cost me $230 and is actually more powerful, and I'm sure I couldn't tell the two apart. In fact, my R750-1D and two R400-4D's combined cost less than that A600.2...over 20 years later.


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## ChaseUTB

SkizeR said:


> Oops, forgot to post these. I'll let Josh comment on how they are.


Very nice work and flush mount false floor. I want to get some work like this done eventually I’m my 2015 Q40. Those amp prices are way out of my league purchase wise. Might as well go mosconi at that point. Are Zapco amps known for having a sound like Mosconi?


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## SkizeR

ChaseUTB said:


> Very nice work and flush mount false floor. I want to get some work like this done eventually I’m my 2015 Q40. Those amp prices are way out of my league purchase wise. Might as well go mosconi at that point. Are Zapco amps known for having a sound like Mosconi?


i dont want to hurt any feelings, so no comment


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## ChaseUTB

89grand said:


> They look nice, and the Zapco name is cool sounding, and always has been, but at least for me, amplifiers, so long as they produce the power you expect, can handle the impedance you will be presenting, and have no weird noise issues, are the least important aspect of an audio system as far as components are concerned (speaker wire and cables I don't consider components).
> 
> The most expensive amp I ever bought was a PPI A600.2 new for around $600 dollars. My fairly cheap Rockford Fosgate Prime R750-1D cost me $230 and is actually more powerful, and I'm sure I couldn't tell the two apart. In fact, my R750-1D and two R400-4D's combined cost less than that A600.2...over 20 years later.


Yes, some of the expensive amps have a flavor they add to the sound. The analog circuitry has to be designed to do something a little extra because amplifying a signal cleanly can be done for a lot cheaper which we all know. 

Would love to test some people regarding expensive and non expensive run of the mill amps. Have the amps set up on a switch and swap amp To amp every 10-15 maybe 20 seconds while the song plays back. I wonder how many could consistently pick out their Zapco, Mosconi, Sinfoni, Brax, or pick the NVX, PPI, Hertz, Alpine Pdx! 

This is like pro audio tests and forums ( music mixing and engineering) when forum posters take an A vs B listening comparison of unlabeled audio files. They pick file A as the hi end analog Gear and 7-8 times out of 10 they ended up choosing the cheap gear file as the hi end gear. Ears can be fooled and perception bias is real, ex: I paid $2k for this amp so hell yeah it sounds way better! 

If one wants to spend $2k on a Mosconi amp By all means please do! If I was rolling in bread I would purchase one or two so I could own what could be considered one of the best amps! 

That doesn’t change me knowing that a $500 amp could do the same kick ass job and that $1500 could be spent on speakers or better install techniques! Have a great day ?


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## ChaseUTB

SkizeR said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice work and flush mount false floor. I want to get some work like this done eventually I’m my 2015 Q40. Those amp prices are way out of my league purchase wise. Might as well go mosconi at that point. Are Zapco amps known for having a sound like Mosconi?
> 
> 
> 
> i dont want to hurt any feelings, so no comment <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

I wasn’t trying to imply that one amp is better or sounds better than another, just never heard a Zapco before. This is big boy league amps, If the quality is there than I would run them as well and put the saved money elsewhere. If the sound isn’t there then that why I would go Mosconi. Sorry for the confusion! Have a good one ?


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## SkizeR

ChaseUTB said:


> Yes, some of the expensive amps have a flavor they add to the sound. The analog circuitry has to be designed to do something a little extra because amplifying a signal cleanly can be done for a lot cheaper which we all know.
> 
> Would love to test some people regarding expensive and non expensive run of the mill amps. Have the amps set up on a switch and swap amp To amp every 10-15 maybe 20 seconds while the song plays back. I wonder how many could consistently pick out their Zapco, Mosconi, Sinfoni, Brax, or pick the NVX, PPI, Hertz, Alpine Pdx!
> 
> This is like pro audio tests and forums ( music mixing and engineering) when forum posters take an A vs B listening comparison of unlabeled audio files. They pick file A as the hi end analog Gear and 7-8 times out of 10 they ended up choosing the cheap gear file as the hi end gear. Ears can be fooled and perception bias is real, ex: I paid $2k for this amp so hell yeah it sounds way better!
> 
> If one wants to spend $2k on a Mosconi amp By all means please do! If I was rolling in bread I would purchase one or two so I could own what could be considered one of the best amps!
> 
> That doesn’t change me knowing that a $500 amp could do the same kick ass job and that $1500 could be spent on speakers or better install techniques! Have a great day ?





ChaseUTB said:


> I wasn’t trying to imply that one amp is better or sounds better than another, just never heard a Zapco before. This is big boy league amps, If the quality is there than I would run them as well and put the saved money elsewhere. If the sound isn’t there then that why I would go Mosconi. Sorry for the confusion! Have a good one ?



to answer your question and fulfill your wish.. and this is with the LX. not the better AP

https://issuu.com/diogoianaconi/docs/amplifier_shootout


----------



## ChaseUTB

SkizeR said:


> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, some of the expensive amps have a flavor they add to the sound. The analog circuitry has to be designed to do something a little extra because amplifying a signal cleanly can be done for a lot cheaper which we all know.
> 
> Would love to test some people regarding expensive and non expensive run of the mill amps. Have the amps set up on a switch and swap amp To amp every 10-15 maybe 20 seconds while the song plays back. I wonder how many could consistently pick out their Zapco, Mosconi, Sinfoni, Brax, or pick the NVX, PPI, Hertz, Alpine Pdx!
> 
> This is like pro audio tests and forums ( music mixing and engineering) when forum posters take an A vs B listening comparison of unlabeled audio files. They pick file A as the hi end analog Gear and 7-8 times out of 10 they ended up choosing the cheap gear file as the hi end gear. Ears can be fooled and perception bias is real, ex: I paid $2k for this amp so hell yeah it sounds way better!
> 
> If one wants to spend $2k on a Mosconi amp By all means please do! If I was rolling in bread I would purchase one or two so I could own what could be considered one of the best amps!
> 
> That doesn’t change me knowing that a $500 amp could do the same kick ass job and that $1500 could be spent on speakers or better install techniques! Have a great day ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChaseUTB said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn’t trying to imply that one amp is better or sounds better than another, just never heard a Zapco before. This is big boy league amps, If the quality is there than I would run them as well and put the saved money elsewhere. If the sound isn’t there then that why I would go Mosconi. Sorry for the confusion! Have a good one ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> to answer your question and fulfill your wish.. and this is with the LX. not the better AP
> 
> https://issuu.com/diogoianaconi/docs/amplifier_shootout
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. 

A Class A Amp with negative feedback circuit in the path of amplification will add its sound to the sound/ music it’s amplifying. Also comparing a class A amplifier to a class AB amplifier is not apples to apples. 

Everyone's ears are different and as long as it sounds good it is good. That’s one review on those amps. Have 5 more ppl do the same amp reviews and at least 3/4 out of the 5 will have different results as for as which amps have better dynamics vs more mid presence vs bright top end vs sluggish low mid bump! Cool read tho


----------



## SnakeOil

I still can’t understand how any amp as expensive as the LX could ever have a noticeable noise floor. 
If it does how can any of you support this company?


----------



## 89grand

Meh, who cares what a panel of people claim? Well, obviously some people do, but whatever. I only care if I can tell, and I've never been able to tell one amp from another, whether it be car audio amps, or home audio.

I couldn't tell the difference between a B&K EX-442 Sonata, an AudioSource AMP Three, a SMSL Class D, or SMSL T-Amp, when not driven into clipping, and that's in a home setup, with little outside noise.

I'm actually glad I can't "hear" amplifiers.


----------



## SnakeOil

89grand said:


> Meh, who cares what a panel of people claim? Well, obviously some people do, but whatever. I only care if I can tell, and I've never been able to tell one amp from another, whether it be car audio amps, or home audio.
> 
> I couldn't tell the difference between a B&K EX-442 Sonata, an AudioSource AMP Three, a SMSL Class D, or SMSL T-Amp, when not driven into clipping, and that's in a home setup, with little outside noise.
> 
> I'm actually glad I can't "hear" amplifiers.


Lol yeah considering how much this Asian built amp cost I agree with you. 
The markup has to be insane.


----------



## rton20s

SnakeOil said:


> Lol yeah considering how much this Asian built amp cost I agree with you.
> The markup has to be insane.


Just like literally every single other amplifier on the market. Car, home, pro, whatever. That "mark up" as you call it is how the companies stay in business.


----------



## SnakeOil

rton20s said:


> Just like literally every single other amplifier on the market. Car, home, pro, whatever. That "mark up" as you call it is how the companies stay in business.


Not everyone is out to take advantage of the fools. There are plenty of amps that probably come from the same build house for way less. But it does have a fancy paint job.


----------



## SkizeR

funny. zapco has less markup than ANY other car audio brand ive seen price sheets of. I think this is one of the reasons why there arent many dealers.


----------



## SnakeOil

SkizeR said:


> funny. zapco has less markup than ANY other car audio brand ive seen price sheets of. I think this is one of the reasons why there arent many dealers.


So you have seen the price per unit? Maybe you have. I doubt it.


----------



## rton20s

Here you go SnakeOil. Here is your "SQ" amp without the "insane" mark up. 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dual-Electronics-XPR84D-2-1-High-Performance-Power-MOSFET-Class-D-Car-Amplifier-with-1-000-Watts-of-Dynamic-Peak-Power/137888849


----------



## 89grand

While I've come to the conclusion after all of these years in this hobby that all of the amps I've ever used sounded the same, there are plenty of reasons to choose one amp over another. I make choices for reasons as well, and it's not just price driven. 

Some of my reasons are straight forward. I chose the Rockford amps I'm using because I wanted amps with all of the connections points on the bottom, not on the ends. It was also nice that they were affordable, and Rockford has been around a long time, so they are fairly trusted for longevity.

I also have what many would consider silly reasons for not choosing many amps. I think some amps just look dumb so I won't use them, some companies names just sound cheesy and dumb and are embarrassing to use. Some companies I just don't like for whatever reason, so I won't use theirs.

So, I certainly have no issue with whatever amp anyone wants to use, no matter how much they cost.


----------



## SnakeOil

rton20s said:


> Here you go SnakeOil. Here is your "SQ" amp without the "insane" mark up.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dual-Electronics-XPR84D-2-1-High-Performance-Power-MOSFET-Class-D-Car-Amplifier-with-1-000-Watts-of-Dynamic-Peak-Power/137888849


Im sure that one sounds just fine taking it’s power into consideration. 
I personally don’t need fluff equipment. I’ve installed thousands of HT setups. There is plenty of fluff there. Some clients knew they where paying to much but wanted the name. I get that, be real about it.

I guess everyone just ignores the noise floor claims on the lx


----------



## D34dl1fter

SnakeOil said:


> Im sure that one sounds just fine taking it’s power into consideration.
> I personally don’t need fluff equipment. I’ve installed thousands of HT setups. There is plenty of fluff there. Some clients knew they where paying to much but wanted the name. I get that, be real about it.
> 
> I guess everyone just ignores the noise floor claims on the lx


No one is ignoring that? It's been well documented and mentioned frequently by many that actually owned them as I did above 

The ap fixed that again as I noted above 

Not sure what the issue is here, i stated my experience based on my use of both


----------



## SnakeOil

D34dl1fter said:


> No one is ignoring that? It's been well documented and mentioned frequently by many that actually owned them as I did above
> 
> The ap fixed that again as I noted above
> 
> Not sure what the issue is here, i stated my experience based on my use of both


I don’t really care what others think. I am only stating my opinion. 
I think it is crazy to support a company with so much praise that charges that much with such overhyped marketing with noise issues. 
Great they fixed them, but they also charge even more for the fixed one. 
Whatever, opinions will never be changed. Like any topic.


----------



## D34dl1fter

SnakeOil said:


> I don’t really care what others think. I am only stating my opinion.
> I think it is crazy to support a company with so much praise that charges that much with such overhyped marketing with noise issues.
> Great they fixed them, but they also charge even more for the fixed one.
> Whatever, opinions will never be changed. Like any topic.


If you don't care what others think then that's pretty pathetic and tells me all I need to know about you...sorry...stating my opinion


----------



## SnakeOil

D34dl1fter said:


> If you don't care what others think then that's pretty pathetic and tells me all I need to know about you...sorry...stating my opinion


What is the point of a forum if you can’t state your opinions? 
I guess we are all pathetic.


----------



## BMW Alpina

After I installed my Zapco ASP-X4 Active Xover (to go active front channel) between Sony RSX-GS9 Head Unit and Sony XM-GS4 Power Amp, 
I also experience higher noise than before (when I was using passive Xover).

and the Zapco ASP-X4 Active Xover have identical component (capacitor, and op-Amp) with the LX, so I guess this must be part of the design/component selection.



Now for Snake Oil,
I don't understand why you create a profile "Snake Oil" that clearly represent your goal in posting here.
In almost every post you have, you try to be the myth-buster to debunk the myth that some higher cost branded amp is just a ploy to make more money out of naive customer...
Do you gain personal satisfaction each time you post this matter?
I mean there must be something that motivate you to be almost like an evangelist here... try to enlighten people...

Can't you understand that there are many reasons for people to buy branded amp...
For me, right now I really want to buy BRAX because I think it is a great quality product with great spec, and it is also a status symbol, and a way to pat myself in the back (read my ego) that now (after hard work and effort) start to making better income and can afford to buy nice things again.
Basically it make me happy to buy an expensive amp.
Is BRAX the most bang for the buck, of course it is not,
it BRAX the most value for my money, of course it is not,
but will buying BRAX make me the most happy compare if I buy other amp, of course it is,
and that what matter for me. My money buy me my happiness.

I create this thread because I was interested in buying an LX and later AP but now I change my mind, and I want Brax instead, 
still I want to hear what people real world experience with the AP just to learn and listen to other experience...

but you somehow always try to use every opportunity available to preach your gospel so people buy cheap generic decent sounding amp instead...

You know, a Kia Stinger GT with 365hp is a damn fast car but some people don't want a Kia, they want an AMG E63 which cost much more... but it's AMG

or why buy a BMW Alpina when you can buy a cheaper Dodge Charger Hellcat with more horsepower? because some people just don't want to be caught driving a dodge...
and so on and so on...

Heck cheap digital watch show very accurate time, so why buy Rolex?
or a cheap plastic bag works well for your wife (if you have a wife),
but she might want a Hermes Birkin (if she knows about it)...
and if you really love your wife, and that is the only thing she want for the 20 year
marriage anniversary, would you preach her and start comparing the maximum
load and volume value of a plastic bag vs. Hermes Birkin bag?

so unless you got some personal satisfaction in doing this...
bashing people who spending their hard earned money to buy nicer things in life that they can afford...
but if you do get some satisfaction doing this, 
then I understand... everyone just have different way to be happy/satisfy...


----------



## D34dl1fter

SnakeOil said:


> What is the point of a forum if you can’t state your opinions?
> I guess we are all pathetic.


The part where you said you don't care what others think 
If that's true then why are you even on here or replying to me?


----------



## SnakeOil

D34dl1fter said:


> The part where you said you don't care what others think
> If that's true then why are you even on here or replying to me?


If anyone cares what others think then they would never open their mouths. 
Think about it.


----------



## SnakeOil

BMW Alpina said:


> After I installed my Zapco ASP-X4 Active Xover (to go active front channel) between Sony RSX-GS9 Head Unit and Sony XM-GS4 Power Amp,
> I also experience higher noise than before (when I was using passive Xover).
> 
> and the Zapco ASP-X4 Active Xover have identical component (capacitor, and op-Amp) with the LX, so I guess this must be part of the design/component selection.
> 
> 
> 
> Now for Snake Oil,
> I don't understand why you create a profile "Snake Oil" that clearly represent your goal in posting here.
> In almost every post you have, you try to be the myth-buster to debunk the myth that some higher cost branded amp is just a ploy to make more money out of naive customer...
> Do you gain personal satisfaction each time you post this matter?
> I mean there must be something that motivate you to be almost like an evangelist here... try to enlighten people...
> 
> Can't you understand that there are many reasons for people to buy branded amp...
> For me, right now I really want to buy BRAX because I think it is a great quality product with great spec, and it is also a status symbol, and a way to pat myself in the back (read my ego) that now (after hard work and effort) start to making better income and can afford to buy nice things again.
> Basically it make me happy to buy an expensive amp.
> Is BRAX the most bang for the buck, of course it is not,
> it BRAX the most value for my money, of course it is not,
> but will buying BRAX make me the most happy compare if I buy other amp, of course it is,
> and that what matter for me. My money buy me my happiness.
> 
> I create this thread because I was interested in buying an LX and later AP but now I change my mind, and I want Brax instead,
> still I want to hear what people real world experience with the AP just to learn and listen to other experience...
> 
> but you somehow always try to use every opportunity available to preach your gospel so people buy cheap generic decent sounding amp instead...
> 
> You know, a Kia Stinger GT with 365hp is a damn fast car but some people don't want a Kia, they want an AMG E63 which cost much more... but it's AMG
> 
> or why buy a BMW Alpina when you can buy a cheaper Dodge Charger Hellcat with more horsepower? because some people just don't want to be caught driving a dodge...
> and so on and so on...
> 
> Heck cheap digital watch show very accurate time, so why buy Rolex?
> or a cheap plastic bag works well for your wife (if you have a wife),
> but she might want a Hermes Birkin (if she knows about it)...
> and if you really love your wife, and that is the only thing she want for the 20 year
> marriage anniversary, would you preach her and start comparing the maximum
> load and volume value of a plastic bag vs. Hermes Birkin bag?
> 
> so unless you got some personal satisfaction in doing this...
> bashing people who spending their hard earned money to buy nicer things in life that they can afford...
> but if you do get some satisfaction doing this,
> then I understand... everyone just have different way to be happy/satisfy...


It has nothing to do about wanting something for your own reasons. I said that already. But I’m sure you ignored that part. 

It has to do with being real. Calling a spade a spade. 
People get so hung up on nonsense and ignore the reality.


----------



## SnakeOil

Btw. We are all pathetic. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a top 10 female because they have a nice amplifier. It’s pretty sad.


----------



## D34dl1fter

SnakeOil said:


> If anyone cares what others think then they would never open their mouths.
> Think about it.


Yes sir! I'll do as I'm told  but seriously I'll bow out because you said what ya said and I respect a lot of the mods on here so I'll no longer clutter this thread

Take care


----------



## ErinH

there's a _lot_ of other threads discussing how amps sound/same. let's leave all the chatter for those threads and just focus on the amp in question here. no need in making people who want to read about this amp suffer through 5 pages of the same old tired debate.


----------



## BMW Alpina

SnakeOil said:


> It has nothing to do about wanting something for your own reasons. I said that already. But I’m sure you ignored that part.
> 
> It has to do with being real. Calling a spade a spade.
> People get so hung up on nonsense and ignore the reality.



No, what I really want to know is what is the benefit for you to create a profile "SNAKE OIL" and keep on preaching about better buying cheap amp then branded amp...
Doing that make you happy or satisfy?

I for one being real, I know that my choice of amp (Brax) is not the best bung for the buck, it's a reality, and I am pretty sure most people know the value of money when they spend...
but why do you have to do this?

Is this really make you get some personal satisfaction each time you call "a spade a spade" ?

can you please answer that?



SnakeOil said:


> Btw. We are all pathetic. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a top 10 female because they have a nice amplifier. It’s pretty sad.


but if someone have a nice amplifier and it make them happy, that is ok right?
may we have the right do to that?
to be happy with the nice expensive amp that we choose to buy?
yes, it might not impress any female, but is it still ok for us to buy a nice amp just for our own personal satisfaction?
(just like you protecting your right to call a spade a spade to get your own personal satisfaction?)

again, how satisfying it is to be a "snake oil" persona and calling a spade a spade each time a thread with expensive amp discuss in it?
I am really curious 

note: you can have the last response, I don't get satisfaction (and actually feel bad) doing this to you 
so carry on


----------



## SnakeOil

BMW Alpina said:


> No, what I really want to know is what is the benefit for you to create a profile "SNAKE OIL" and keep on preaching about better buying cheap amp then branded amp...
> Doing that make you happy or satisfy?
> 
> I for one being real, I know that my choice of amp (Brax) is not the best bung for the buck, it's a reality, and I am pretty sure most people know the value of money when they spend...
> but why do you have to do this?
> 
> Is this really make you get some personal satisfaction each time you call "a spade a spade" ?
> 
> can you please answer that?
> 
> 
> 
> but if someone have a nice amplifier and it make them happy, that is ok right?
> may we have the right do to that?
> to be happy with the nice expensive amp that we choose to buy?
> yes, it might not impress any female, but is it still ok for us to buy a nice amp just for our own personal satisfaction?
> (just like you protecting your right to call a spade a spade to get your own personal satisfaction?)
> 
> again, how satisfying it is to be a "snake oil" persona and calling a spade a spade each time a thread with expensive amp discuss in it?
> I am really curious
> 
> note: you can have the last response, I don't get satisfaction (and actually feel bad) doing this to you
> so carry on


So all the BS aside. How does anyone justify the lx noise issues? Do they justify it by upgrading to these?


----------



## SkizeR

SnakeOil said:


> So all the BS aside. How does anyone justify the lx noise issues? Do they justify it by upgrading to these?


you ever used the LX?


----------



## SnakeOil

SkizeR said:


> you ever used the LX?


It was on my list. But not anymore. 
I do not mind paying a decent price for my own personal pleasure. 
But after seeing this multiple times, I will pass. 
I did have a few old Zaps back in the day. Mid tier models.


----------



## SkizeR

SnakeOil said:


> It was on my list. But not anymore.
> I do not mind paying a decent price for my own personal pleasure.
> But after seeing this multiple times, I will pass.
> I did have a few old Zaps back in the day. Mid tier models.


So your not even sure what its noise floor is even like, yet here you are... please just take a seat

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## SnakeOil

SkizeR said:


> So your not even sure what its noise floor is even like, yet here you are... please just take a seat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Take a seat? That’s a really intelligent response. 
I guess I need to get new glasses. I am pretty sure I read it in this thread. But I guess I should waste my own money to find out for myself


----------



## SnakeOil

Anyway. This is to much for me. I will leave you to it.


----------



## rton20s




----------



## Rainstar

BMW Alpina said:


> but you somehow always try to use every opportunity available to preach your gospel so people buy cheap generic decent sounding amp instead...
> 
> You know, a Kia Stinger GT with 365hp is a damn fast car but some people don't want a Kia, they want an AMG E63 which cost much more... but it's AMG
> 
> or why buy a BMW Alpina when you can buy a cheaper Dodge Charger Hellcat with more horsepower? because some people just don't want to be caught driving a dodge...
> and so on and so on...
> 
> so unless you got some personal satisfaction in doing this...
> bashing people who spending their hard earned money to buy nicer things in life that they can afford...
> but if you do get some satisfaction doing this,
> then I understand... everyone just have different way to be happy/satisfy...


OFF TOPIC HERE

Amps and high end equipment are just tools, some people use these tools better than others and pair these tools differently. I can be a kung fu master and hand down a sacred OP dragon sword to an untrained pupil and he will wield it the same as any other blade but in the right hands that dragon sword will slay.

I have seen a suped up hellcat lose at the racetrack against a Miata, toyota 86 but it was probably because it was a racetrack and not a straight drag race.

back to the amp topic. It is my opinion that a generic average car audio person buying a brax amp may not be able to fully utilize it as opposed to a seasoned enthusiast. Most often many threads and negative banter end up thrown around this situation whats better for the audio competition champions may not have the same result downstream. and then when you try to suggest X amp better than Y you may get ****ted on by other peoples ignorance, and they claim that X amp was not so great.


----------



## toneloc2

got an email today from the Canadian supplier for zapco,, it appears when he said my z150.6 ap was on its way, he lied.. he's now telling me that the ap is on back order till mid June.... so i bought the lx version for $820 cdn.... can't wait till mid June....this will be my first experience with a zapco product...


----------



## toneloc2

well just replaced my alpine pdx's amps with the zapco lx versions, and very happy with them. there seams to be a more warm and rich sound with them..


----------



## JamesRC

ChaseUTB said:


> That doesn’t change me knowing that a $500 amp could do the same kick ass job and that $1500 could be spent on speakers or better install techniques! Have a great day ?


Or you could be like me and think the $500 amp's the high-end of what you can do.


----------



## TerryGreen5986

toneloc2 said:


> well just replaced my alpine pdx's amps with the zapco lx versions, and very happy with them. there seams to be a more warm and rich sound with them..




Other than the warm/rich sound, do you feel the thousands extra were worth the upgrade 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

TerryGreen5986 said:


> Other than the warm/rich sound, do you feel the thousands extra were worth the upgrade
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thousands extra? A pdx f6 is 750 bucks. 250 dollars less than the equivalent 4 channel lx. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## TerryGreen5986

SkizeR said:


> Thousands extra? A pdx f6 is 750 bucks. 250 dollars less than the equivalent 4 channel lx.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk




Thought he bought AP’s. Read wrong 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lowcel

Damn I’m loving my AP’s. My system is sounding better than ever.


----------



## jbeez

Anyone know the proper fuse size for the 6 channel amp? The manual doesn't seem to have that information in it. Planning out what I need for my install atm


----------



## SkizeR

jbeez said:


> Anyone know the proper fuse size for the 6 channel amp? The manual doesn't seem to have that information in it. Planning out what I need for my install atm


Fuse for the wire. Not for the amp

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

TerryGreen5986 said:


> Thought he bought AP’s. Read wrong
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The ap models arent much more than the LX..

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez

SkizeR said:


> Fuse for the wire. Not for the amp
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


No disrespect, but that's a BS answer. I already fuse my wires at the power source. I'd like to protect the amp itself from burning up in the event of a component failure. Typically the amp fuse will be smaller than a giant wire fuse for a short 1/0 run of OFC.

Why on earth would Zapco include on board fuses for its 2 channel AP amp? Are they expecting people to not fuse close to the power source to protect the wire? How are onboard fuses in this situation protecting the wire at all?


----------



## SkizeR

jbeez said:


> No disrespect, but that's a BS answer. I already fuse my wires at the power source. I'd like to protect the amp itself from burning up in the event of a component failure. Typically the amp fuse will be smaller than a giant wire fuse for a short 1/0 run of OFC.
> 
> Why on earth would Zapco include on board fuses for its 2 channel AP amp? Are they expecting people to not fuse close to the power source to protect the wire? How are onboard fuses in this situation protecting the wire at all?


So your asking about the fuses that are already in place? You popped them? 

How is it a BS answer if the amp has a protection circuit and built in fuses already? "I heard you like fuses, so we fused your fuse"

And how are onboard fuses protecting the wire? They're not. Which is why you fuse the wire for the wire and the amps already have their own fusing. Glad were on the same page..?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez

SkizeR said:


> So your asking about the fuses that are already in place? You popped them?
> 
> How is it a BS answer if the amp has a protection circuit and built in fuses already? "I heard you like fuses, so we fused your fuse"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


No, the 2 channel amps have fuses on the side panel, probably because they can get away with ATC fuses internally but on the larger amps it was too much so they need external fuses for the electronics.

I'm asking about fusing to protect a 6 channel AP amp, which has no visible fuses already protecting it. My wire will already be protected from the battery to the amp. I'm interested in protecting the new amplifier I'm investing in.

The LX manual lists fuse sizes(I think they've swapped the recommended size for the 4chan and 6chan in that). They left fuse information out of the AP manual, which I believe to be another oversight on their part. If you don't know the recommended fuse size that is OK. I still need to find that out.

In reality my wire run is so short I'll be using the amp's recommended fuse size as the fuse I use to protect the wire as well, it's certainly not 400A


----------



## lowcel

I'm using a 150 amp on my 150.6 AP. Used the same on my LX. I'm not sure if it is the perfect size but it works for me. Note that all six channels are running at 4 ohm.


----------



## JimmyDee

On my Z150-6LX amp, I used a 100 amp fuse. Never blew it.

But, Skizer is right... you fuse the wire, not the amp. Main fuse at the battery, to protect the wire. 

I understand what you're saying though... I put a 250 amp main fuse at the battery, and then a fused distribution block at the amps. A 100 amp fuse, for each amp.


----------



## jbeez

I emailed John yesterday and he got back to me about the fusing(transposed values in the LX manual and lack of mention in the AP manual). This is what he replied with:

"That’s a misprint. The 4Ch 100A the 6ch 150A. The AP{ have a little more power but the are also more efficient so the fusing will be the same.



Regards,

John"

I understand you fuse wires so if there's a short your car doesn't burn to the ground, but if you overfuse the amplifiers limit, it can also burn up. I've witnessed an amp melt itself because it didn't draw enough current to make a wire get hot but it did pull over what it was setup to need, there was an issue inside the amp already but having a fuse with a value too high made it way worse. That's why I was so insistent on getting the manufacturers fusing value. I might use less but I won't exceed their recommended size.


----------



## jbeez

Does anyone know the proper way to set the individual gains when using a bridged setup on one of these amps since the gains are independent?

edit: I just adjusted it this way seemed to work well, I have Legatia L6v2 in my doors and they get ~215W at 4ohm, so I have 4 chans on my amp bridged down to two, I set the gain on each to 14.4v, and when I measued the voltage across the bridged chan I got 28.8 which is about 207/208watts. (sq rt of (4ohm*208w) = 28.84v. 

Hope this helps someone, I obviously didn't need the full power output of those bridged pairs, I didn't wanna smoke my door speakers, sounds great! Really like this amp. I'm not a huge fan of the speaker terminals but thats probably my personal preference. I had to send the first one back one of the terminals was stripped i couldn't tighten it down it kept skipping once the speaker wire was in it.


----------



## kennethteng

I'll be getting 3x Z150.2 AP to drive my 3-way speakers and I'm going to upgrade the OpAmps during the install.

Per the spec, below are he OpAmps used.
TI LME49720 (BJT) Op-Amp at the inputs
BB OP2604 (JFET) Op amplifier in the signal path

Can anyone advise how many of these OpAmps are being used per Z150.2 AP?


----------



## bnae38

kennethteng said:


> I'll be getting 3x Z150.2 AP to drive my 3-way speakers and I'm going to upgrade the OpAmps during the install.
> 
> Per the spec, below are he OpAmps used.
> TI LME49720 (BJT) Op-Amp at the inputs
> BB OP2604 (JFET) Op amplifier in the signal path
> 
> Can anyone advise how many of these OpAmps are being used per Z150.2 AP?


Seems like a product where you'd leave well enough alone. 

What are you changing them to?


----------



## D34dl1fter

bnae38 said:


> Seems like a product where you'd leave well enough alone.
> 
> What are you changing them to?


Agreed, really no need - and this is coming from a guy that likes to change things for no good reason other than to change 

I use 5 of these 150.2 ap amps in my build and they are great as is


----------



## kennethteng

bnae38 said:


> Seems like a product where you'd leave well enough alone. <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> What are you changing them to?



I'm gonna change them to discrete opamp as I never like IC opamp. Most probably will be getting the Burson Audio V5. May try the cheap China made discrete opamp @$11 each just for the fun of it to see how it sound.

Have been opamp rolling on my home audio setup and discrete opamp is still the best in terms of sound. 
I have replaced all the opamp with discrete on my DAC and headphone amp with great results.


----------



## bnae38

:inout:


----------



## lostthumb

kennethteng said:


> I'll be getting 3x Z150.2 AP to drive my 3-way speakers and I'm going to upgrade the OpAmps during the install.
> 
> Per the spec, below are he OpAmps used.
> TI LME49720 (BJT) Op-Amp at the inputs
> BB OP2604 (JFET) Op amplifier in the signal path
> 
> Can anyone advise how many of these OpAmps are being used per Z150.2 AP?


Please note the current line of production amplifiers do not have quick change sockets for opamps. They are soldered to the board. You will need to solder some sockets if wanting quick change. I do like the Burson op amps. I have used the V5i, V6 Vivids, and V6 classics. If you need a source for them, my friend can help.


----------



## kennethteng

lostthumb said:


> Please note the current line of production amplifiers do not have quick change sockets for opamps. They are soldered to the board. You will need to solder some sockets if wanting quick change. I do like the Burson op amps. I have used the V5i, V6 Vivids, and V6 classics. If you need a source for them, my friend can help.


Z-AP series do come with sockets for the opamp, which is one of the main reason that I choose them for my setup. Another reason being that they are purely a gain amp with no built-in crossover.

Hopefully someone can provide some info on the number of opamp on Z150. 2 AP.


----------



## rton20s

kennethteng said:


> Z-AP series do come with sockets for the opamp, which is one of the main reason that I choose them for my setup. Another reason being that they are purely a gain amp with no built-in crossover.
> 
> Hopefully someone can provide some info on the number of opamp on Z150. 2 AP.


I haven't opened up my APs to check, but you might want to talk to your dealer to confirm. Below is the specific language from the Zapco site (emphasis, mine)...










"For the seriously twisted audiophile, we have provided gold plated receptacles for the op-amps, *available on a limited number of special order units.*"


----------



## lowcel

kennethteng said:


> Z-AP series do come with sockets for the opamp, which is one of the main reason that I choose them for my setup. Another reason being that they are purely a gain amp with no built-in crossover.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully someone can provide some info on the number of opamp on Z150. 2 AP.






I’ve got a 150.6 and two 400.2’s. They do not have quick change sockets. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

lowcel said:


> I’ve got a 150.6 and two 400.2’s. They do not have quick change sockets.


I have the same. Just haven't opened them up to check out the guts.


----------



## lostthumb

[url=https://flic.kr/p/ND3NZf]Untitled by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/URL]

None here. As you can see, the boards must have changed as the picture on the webpage shows thru hole sockets. The board in the picture I posted are SMDs. At knowledge fest Long Beach is when I heard the production ones did not have the sockets for easy swap of opamps .

I have asked for them to take them down from the website to avoid another fiasco as what the LX amps had with the Nichicons and Elna capacitors. Apparently, my voice does not penetrate too far.


----------



## benny z

As mentioned above, the website states they’re available socketed on a limited basis by request.


----------



## kennethteng

benny z said:


> As mentioned above, the website states they’re available socketed on a limited basis by request.


That's sad news to me and it's not even thru hole... urghh 
It gave me the thought that "Gold Plated Socket" are limited upon request and it just came with the normal sockets.


----------



## BMW Alpina

kennethteng said:


> That's sad news to me and it's not even thru hole... urghh
> It gave me the thought that "Gold Plated Socket" are limited upon request and it just came with the normal sockets.



Burson sell the DIP to SOIC Adapters,











I am waiting for 14 pieces of MUSES01 op amp and I will use the DIP to SOIC Adapters to replace the OP275 Op-Amp inside my Zapco ASP-X4 active xover. (I only change the channel that I use in that Xover). In my application, there is no space to have a discrete op-amp like Burson, so I decided to go with MUSES01.


I heard from Zapco that at one point they are considering using MUSES op-amp for the AP amp.


The only challenge that I see is soldering those DIP to SOIC adapters...
I just bought the smallest diameter soldering tips for my soldering gun...

hopefully my hand will be steady and accurate enough


----------



## kennethteng

BMW Alpina said:


> Burson sell the DIP to SOIC Adapters,


Did thought about that but it will be a tedious work. It's been a while since I touched my soldering iron.

The adapter will add additional height so I may also need to get the DIP extension leads too.


----------



## BMW Alpina

kennethteng said:


> Did thought about that but it will be a tedious work. It's been a while since I touched my soldering iron.
> 
> The adapter will add additional height so I may also need to get the DIP extension leads too.



Hello, if you need spacing reference,

I just finished upgrading 14 pieces of OP-275 op amp to MUSES01 inside my Zapco ASP-X4, and the adapter with additional height still fit inside the casing of the ZAPCO ASP-X4 which is similar to the Zapco LX series amp which I think is the same height as the Zapco AP series


below is the link to my detailed post about this:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ynaudio-morel-maybe-jl-etc-6.html#post5596675


----------



## kennethteng

BMW Alpina said:


> Hello, if you need spacing reference,
> 
> I just finished upgrading 14 pieces of OP-275 op amp to MUSES01 inside my Zapco ASP-X4, and the adapter with additional height still fit inside the casing of the ZAPCO ASP-X4 which is similar to the Zapco LX series amp which I think is the same height as the Zapco AP series


Thanks for the photos . It looks great!!!

I'm currently looking at Burson Audio V5i opamp for the upgrades due to height constraint.
Burson Audio is going to give me a good package deal but I'm still pending respond from Zapco on the no. of opamp used on Z150.2 AP.

I have written to John and also submit via their website contact form since last week but I have yet to hear from them yet.


----------



## fleshbone

kennethteng said:


> Thanks for the photos . It looks great!!!
> 
> I'm currently looking at Burson Audio V5i opamp for the upgrades due to height constraint.
> Burson Audio is going to give me a good package deal but I'm still pending respond from Zapco on the no. of opamp used on Z150.2 AP.
> 
> I have written to John and also submit via their website contact form since last week but I have yet to hear from them yet.


4 OPAMPS as I've been told


----------



## kennethteng

fleshbone said:


> 4 OPAMPS as I've been told


Got it... Thanks!!!


----------



## BMW Alpina

kennethteng said:


> Got it... Thanks!!!



Hello,
Have you open upgrade your op-amp inside the Zapco 150.2 AP?


I notice from the latest information on their website that Zapco had change the op-amp inside the AP amps.


Before Zapco say they choose the best op-amp for the right application,
meaning different op-amps on the inputs and the signal path
They still have the same paragraph: *We used a new low noise, audio op-amp for the input stage and the smoothest audio op-amp we could find for the signal path (the right op-amp for the right job).* 

• TI LME49720 op-amps on the inputs
• TI OPA2604 op-amps in the signal path

​But 
​now they listed:​• TI LME49720 (BJT) op-amps on the inputs
• TI LME49720 (BJT) op-amps in the signal path

​So based on the latest website info above, this means, Zapco no longer use OPA2604 op-amps for the signal path?​
​My question is what op-amp did you find in your 150.2 AP? and can you confirm that it is 4 pieces total for the 2 channel 150.2 AP?
​
​note: I am asking this question because I plan to modify to modify a Zapco 150.2 AP for someone here in this forum in the near future and I would like to know more about what op-amp currently in use.
​


----------



## kennethteng

BMW Alpina said:


> Hello,
> Have you open upgrade your op-amp inside the Zapco 150.2 AP?
> 
> 
> I notice from the latest information on their website that Zapco had change the op-amp inside the AP amps.
> 
> 
> Before Zapco say they choose the best op-amp for the right application,
> meaning different op-amps on the inputs and the signal path
> They still have the same paragraph: *We used a new low noise, audio op-amp for the input stage and the smoothest audio op-amp we could find for the signal path (the right op-amp for the right job).*
> 
> • TI LME49720 op-amps on the inputs
> • TI OPA2604 op-amps in the signal path
> 
> ​But
> ​now they listed:​• TI LME49720 (BJT) op-amps on the inputs
> • TI LME49720 (BJT) op-amps in the signal path
> 
> ​So based on the latest website info above, this means, Zapco no longer use OPA2604 op-amps for the signal path?​
> ​My question is what op-amp did you find in your 150.2 AP? and can you confirm that it is 4 pieces total for the 2 channel 150.2 AP?
> ​
> ​note: I am asking this question because I plan to modify to modify a Zapco 150.2 AP for someone here in this forum in the near future and I would like to know more about what op-amp currently in use.
> ​


I have yet to start the upgrading as the parts for the upgrading is still on order and my amp will only be in my hands at the end of the month.

LME49720 & OPA2604 are both dual channel opamp so there's no issue to swap both out with any dual channel opamp, whether is it discrete or IC chip.

If I can get my hands on the amp earlier then I open it up and take some photos.


----------



## BMW Alpina

kennethteng said:


> I have yet to start the upgrading as the parts for the upgrading is still on order and my amp will only be in my hands at the end of the month.
> 
> LME49720 & OPA2604 are both dual channel opamp so there's no issue to swap both out with any dual channel opamp, whether is it discrete or IC chip.
> 
> If I can get my hands on the amp earlier then I open it up and take some photos.



Hello, Thanks for your reply. 



Yes, please kindly take photos and posted it here when your amp arrived.



While, I agree with you that those 2 op-amps can be replace by most dual channel op-amp, but, they are 2 very different design, with different sounds characteristic. 



The LME49720 is Bi-Polar while the OPA2604 is a JFET...


May I know, which op-amp model do you plan to use for the upgrade?


Thanks


----------



## kennethteng

BMW Alpina said:


> Hello, Thanks for your reply.
> 
> Yes, please kindly take photos and posted it here when your amp arrived.


Will do.




BMW Alpina said:


> While, I agree with you that those 2 op-amps can be replace by most dual channel op-amp, but, they are 2 very different design, with different sounds characteristic.
> 
> The LME49720 is Bi-Polar while the OPA2604 is a JFET...
> 
> May I know, which op-amp model do you plan to use for the upgrade?
> 
> Thanks


I have decided to use Burson Audio V5i opamp. The reason being it's size/height, as compare with Discrete Opamp.

Another reason being that I have used Burson Audio V5 Discrete Opamp with great results on my Headphone Amplifier and since V5i shared the same sound signature per Burson Audio's quote so I decided to go for it.


----------



## kennethteng

It's been a while since I post my update on the upgrades as I was busy with family stuff and life... so hobby has to take a backseat for a while.

My installer has recommended me 1x Z-150.6AP rather than 3x Z-150.2AP as it will save me at least $500 on the amps and cables.

Zapco website has updated their product literature and both their inputs and signal paths are using LME49720. They no longer using OPA2604.


















As the opamp used are dual channels so the Z-150.6 AP uses 6x LME49720. Based on calculations the Z-150.2AP should use only 2x LME49720

Removing the SMD opamp is fairly easy when using the Chipquik smd removal kit.









Here's how it looks when the opamps were removed.

When Zapco design the board, it did not factor in users using DIP opamps. the input and signal path opamp are very close together so some modifications are needed to be done to the adapter PCB to squeeze it in.


















As you can see that on the right the opamps are very close together so some modification is being made.

Luckily the adapter PCB can be detached from the adapter base so the soldering is made much easier. Else with the WIMA caps surrounding the opamps, soldering the tiny SMD pads is close to impossible.









Here's a sample of the adapter that I used. I bought it from Burson Audio (an Australian company) but it did not come with the DIP Socket, so you have to purchase it separately.

Due to height constraint and not to use an IC opamp, I have selected the V5i dual opamp, also from Burson Audio.









Look how close the 2 opamps are. Hopefully nothing goes wrong. Fingers crossed.

Now my ride is with the installer to install the Amp, DSP and upgrade the front speakers. Hopefully everything turns up well. Looking forward to the sound.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

benny z said:


> i have matrix amps and am eager to get my hands on a new ap amp to do some side-by-side testing.


Hello Ben,

Did you ever get a chance to compare the Brax Matrix to a Zapco AP?

I'm interested in upgrading my amps and those are the two I'm considering.

Thank you, kind sir.


----------



## chiraghbir

kennethteng said:


> It's been a while since I post my update on the upgrades as I was busy with family stuff and life... so hobby has to take a backseat for a while.
> 
> My installer has recommended me 1x Z-150.6AP rather than 3x Z-150.2AP as it will save me at least $500 on the amps and cables.
> 
> Zapco website has updated their product literature and both their inputs and signal paths are using LME49720. They no longer using OPA2604.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the opamp used are dual channels so the Z-150.6 AP uses 6x LME49720. Based on calculations the Z-150.2AP should use only 2x LME49720
> 
> Removing the SMD opamp is fairly easy when using the Chipquik smd removal kit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's how it looks when the opamps were removed.
> 
> When Zapco design the board, it did not factor in users using DIP opamps. the input and signal path opamp are very close together so some modifications are needed to be done to the adapter PCB to squeeze it in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see that on the right the opamps are very close together so some modification is being made.
> 
> Luckily the adapter PCB can be detached from the adapter base so the soldering is made much easier. Else with the WIMA caps surrounding the opamps, soldering the tiny SMD pads is close to impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a sample of the adapter that I used. I bought it from Burson Audio (an Australian company) but it did not come with the DIP Socket, so you have to purchase it separately.
> 
> Due to height constraint and not to use an IC opamp, I have selected the V5i dual opamp, also from Burson Audio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how close the 2 opamps are. Hopefully nothing goes wrong. Fingers crossed.
> 
> Now my ride is with the installer to install the Amp, DSP and upgrade the front speakers. Hopefully everything turns up well. Looking forward to the sound.




hello 

how are the amps running ?

Any difference you noticed amp changing OP amps ?


----------



## JonnyF

I am posting my experience in the hope it helps others like me, 

I have been an audio enthusiast for many years. I have always loved experimenting and building custom audio systems for car and home. 

My latest hobby brought me to design and build a sq system for my patio area. It consists of 6 custom speakers for highs and 4x 12inch alpine type x subs..
2x alpine 3544 running the highs and 4x x-a90m on the subs 
Audiocontrol eq
Souce is a custom ddac built by me. 
200 amp AC to DC powersupply 

I have always loved the sound of alpine 3544 and also had two 3558 for driving my tops until they died. 

After looking for an upgrade I saw the zapco ap but I could not find many reviews. 

I impulsivly bought 2 x 150.2 AP to replace my 3544 after they replaced my 3558 which have died due to age. 

I swapped the Amps and was very disappointed to say the least. The natural sound and spacious staging was gone. 

It sounded totally inferior and unfortunately a huge disappointment. 

Then i started looking for information about replacing the opamps. Still finding no one who had done the change and update on their finding. 

I immediately ordered the equipment and today I was able to complete the installation. 

Immediately after connecting I was pleasanty surprise about the difference the opamps make. It now sound much better, more open, the great Soundstage is back. Different but it's there. 

I did a few tests with my second 150.2 before replacing the op Amps there too. 

I can gladly say that it is worth the effort. 

One small note, I find that after the upgrade gains need to be raised a bit to get the same output volume after the change. 

Hope this helps others


----------



## jdurango

Great thread, thanks everyone. I'm weighing options, either a 150.6 LX or AP to drive Morel Hybrid woofers, MT230 tweets and IDQ10S sub on ch 5/6 bridged. DSP is MiniDSP Harmony 8x12 fed by optical out from HU. This won't be a competition system, but as an audio engineer and producer, I'd like exceptional sound quality. The price difference between the AP and LX seems quite significant, is there much of a SQ difference? Is the noise floor really that noticeable in the LX? Are op amps socketed by default on the LX (looks like it's hit and miss on the AP)? Any other considerations on LX vs AP? Thanks!


----------



## JonnyF

As far as I understand the LX was discontinued because of a high fail rate with that design. I actually ordered one before the AP and then read about the problems experienced with LX and canceled my order.

I would suggest listening to one of the units before buying, I personally would not buy the AP again especially without the opamp upgrade, even with all their frills and marketing, to me the amp was a big disappointment and limited the ability of my system. 

I would also recommend getting a 4 channel amp for your highs and a dedicated mono block for your sub. 

I think it doesn't have enough power to drive a sub effectively.


----------



## trunks9_us

JonnyF said:


> View attachment 314557
> 
> 
> I am posting my experience in the hope it helps others like me,
> 
> I have been an audio enthusiast for many years. I have always loved experimenting and building custom audio systems for car and home.
> 
> My latest hobby brought me to design and build a sq system for my patio area. It consists of 6 custom speakers for highs and 4x 12inch alpine type x subs..
> 2x alpine 3544 running the highs and 4x x-a90m on the subs
> Audiocontrol eq
> Souce is a custom ddac built by me.
> 200 amp AC to DC powersupply
> 
> I have always loved the sound of alpine 3544 and also had two 3558 for driving my tops until they died.
> 
> After looking for an upgrade I saw the zapco ap but I could not find many reviews.
> 
> I impulsivly bought 2 x 150.2 AP to replace my 3544 after they replaced my 3558 which have died due to age.
> 
> I swapped the Amps and was very disappointed to say the least. The natural sound and spacious staging was gone.
> 
> It sounded totally inferior and unfortunately a huge disappointment.
> 
> Then i started looking for information about replacing the opamps. Still finding no one who had done the change and update on their finding.
> 
> I immediately ordered the equipment and today I was able to complete the installation.
> 
> Immediately after connecting I was pleasanty surprise about the difference the opamps make. It now sound much better, more open, the great Soundstage is back. Different but it's there.
> 
> I did a few tests with my second 150.2 before replacing the op Amps there too.
> 
> I can gladly say that it is worth the effort.
> 
> One small note, I find that after the upgrade gains need to be raised a bit to get the same output volume after the change.
> 
> Hope this helps others


Are those burson v6 vivid ? Those are the ones I plan on doing one day eventually


----------



## JonnyF

Originally I installed the v6 classic which are the orange color ones, but recently upgraded to the vivids.

The speakers im using are a custom build, designed for me by Rick Craig RIP. They have ribbon tweeters and I find that the vivids increased their sparkle and made the everything more real.

I actually never believed that these component upgrades would really make a difference until I began experimenting thought is was BS.


----------



## bertholomey

JonnyF said:


> Originally I installed the v6 classic which are the orange color ones, but recently upgraded to the vivids.
> 
> The speakers im using are a custom build, designed for me by Rick Craig RIP. They have ribbon tweeters and I find that the vivids increased their sparkle and made the everything more real.
> 
> I actually never believed that these component upgrades would really make a difference until I began experimenting thought is was BS.


Trying to understand from the picture - they are sticking up there, are you able to fold them down and the case goes back on or is it mounted in the car with the board displayed (and no case)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## JonnyF

The extention cables I bought allows them to bend 90 degrees, I cut a hard foam piece that supports them in place when the cover is closed, it doesn't touch any transistors so heat isn't a problem.

I don't have them mounted in a car, I use them in a custom system for my patio area.


----------



## Dremgragen

JonnyF said:


> View attachment 314557
> 
> 
> I am posting my experience in the hope it helps others like me,
> 
> I have been an audio enthusiast for many years. I have always loved experimenting and building custom audio systems for car and home.
> 
> My latest hobby brought me to design and build a sq system for my patio area. It consists of 6 custom speakers for highs and 4x 12inch alpine type x subs..
> 2x alpine 3544 running the highs and 4x x-a90m on the subs
> Audiocontrol eq
> Souce is a custom ddac built by me.
> 200 amp AC to DC powersupply
> 
> I have always loved the sound of alpine 3544 and also had two 3558 for driving my tops until they died.
> 
> After looking for an upgrade I saw the zapco ap but I could not find many reviews.
> 
> I impulsivly bought 2 x 150.2 AP to replace my 3544 after they replaced my 3558 which have died due to age.
> 
> I swapped the Amps and was very disappointed to say the least. The natural sound and spacious staging was gone.
> 
> It sounded totally inferior and unfortunately a huge disappointment.
> 
> Then i started looking for information about replacing the opamps. Still finding no one who had done the change and update on their finding.
> 
> I immediately ordered the equipment and today I was able to complete the installation.
> 
> Immediately after connecting I was pleasanty surprise about the difference the opamps make. It now sound much better, more open, the great Soundstage is back. Different but it's there.
> 
> I did a few tests with my second 150.2 before replacing the op Amps there too.
> 
> I can gladly say that it is worth the effort.
> 
> One small note, I find that after the upgrade gains need to be raised a bit to get the same output volume after the change.
> 
> Hope this helps others


You got me wanting to try this. The Z-150.6 AP is the best amp I've ever heard, so the idea that it could be even better makes my eyes sparkle. Pretty easy upgrade to do without worry of ruining your amp? 

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## JonnyF

The internal of the 150.6 are not as spacious as the 150.2, I suggest checking if there is enough place for the v6.

Not all need to be replaced depending on how you use your amp I wouldnt replace them on a sub channel only for the mid and high. Also take into consideration the components which get very hot on the external rails, don't think it's healthy for the opamp.

Besides that I listen to my system every day and enjoy every minute


----------



## trunks9_us

Dremgragen said:


> You got me wanting to try this. The Z-150.6 AP is the best amp I've ever heard, so the idea that it could be even better makes my eyes sparkle. Pretty easy upgrade to do without worry of ruining your amp?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


I’m about to sell both my 150.6 ap amps but as he said I have also been told by zapco they won’t fit in this model not the reason I am selling them I love the zapco ap but I am moving to tru technology class a amp is all. I’ll be doing my comparison in a two weeks probably.


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## JonnyF

trunks9_us said:


> I’m about to sell both my 150.6 ap amps but as he said I have also been told by zapco they won’t fit in this model not the reason I am selling them I love the zapco ap but I am moving to tru technology class a amp is all. I’ll be doing my comparison in a two weeks probably.


So after reading your post I discovered Tru Technology. Found 2 new IA online and bought them 

This time I can say don't upgrade the Zapco just sell it and buy a Tru Technology amp they are way better then my upgrade


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## trunks9_us

JonnyF said:


> View attachment 321444
> View attachment 321445
> 
> 
> So after reading your post I discovered Tru Technology. Found 2 new IA online and bought them
> 
> This time I can say don't upgrade the Zapco just sell it and buy a Tru Technology amp they are way better then my upgrade


I asked about the ia they aren’t class a amps idk if you knew that or not.


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## JonnyF

I understand the preamp is a class a circuit. Doesn't really matter don't believe there are class a that can output high wattage, there are all a/b, In the end sounds great. 

I bought what I found on ebay


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## trunks9_us

JonnyF said:


> I understand the preamp is a class a circuit. Doesn't really matter don't believe there are class a that can output high wattage, there are all a/b, In the end sounds great.
> 
> I bought what I found on ebay


I asked if it is a class a I don’t think your understand I called tru tech and asked. It’s not a class a preamp circuit.

That actually isn’t true on the all amps being class ab that’s why yours cost 1k maybe 2k at the most and the class a cost about 8k. The amp you have is a great amp Don’t get me wrong it’s just not the same amp
As a Class a is all I am stating.


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## JonnyF

I saw their class a range. To be honest anyone spending that much on an amp is overkill that I don't believe is warrented. 

Bought both of mine for $1900 so to me it was value for money. A better investment then the zapco and opamps. 

Perfection doesn't exist there is always better. Personally I'm happy and that's worth every cent I've spent


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## changster

Does anyone know if the Z-1100.1 AP (or any AP for that matter, since their engineering should be all the same) is stable down to 1ohm, assuming proper ventilation?


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## Huckleberry Sound

changster said:


> Does anyone know if the Z-1100.1 AP (or any AP for that matter, since their engineering should be all the same) is stable down to 1ohm, assuming proper ventilation?


Specifications via Zapco website

Power @ 4Ω: 1000 watts
Power @ 2Ω: 2000 watts
THD @ Rated Power < 0.05%
Signal to Noise Ratio > 110dB
Frequency Response 10Hz to 30,000Hz ±1dB
Input Sensitivity 1v to 9v
Dimensions in mm: 190(W) x 62(H) x 482(L) Overall: 190(W) x 62(H) x 518(L)


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## changster

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Specifications via Zapco website
> 
> Power @ 4Ω: 1000 watts
> Power @ 2Ω: 2000 watts
> THD @ Rated Power < 0.05%
> Signal to Noise Ratio > 110dB
> Frequency Response 10Hz to 30,000Hz ±1dB
> Input Sensitivity 1v to 9v
> Dimensions in mm: 190(W) x 62(H) x 482(L) Overall: 190(W) x 62(H) x 518(L)


Yes I understand this. It's not on their spec sheet. What I'm after more is whether I can still wire my subs (3 DVC 2's) into that range while making sure I pay attention to heat dissipation and ventilation. It won't be within Zapco's spec sheet parameters, this I know. I don't care about losing warranty. I also understand it may not produce any more power than 2000 watts. I just want it to be stable and not shut down.

And to be honest, when I turn it up it will only be for 1-2 tracks at a time. The super silly "turn it up" mode is only for 5-10 minutes at a time. Normal listening range is like 85-95db. Silly mode is like 120db once in awhile.

The setup is 3 DVC 2ohm 12" Adire Brahma Rev 2.5's wired in series/parallel for a 1.33ohm load. The amp is a Zapco Z-1100.1 AP monoblock.


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## LR Drvr

changster said:


> Yes I understand this. It's not on their spec sheet. What I'm after more is whether I can still wire my subs (3 DVC 2's) into that range while making sure I pay attention to heat dissipation and ventilation. It won't be within Zapco's spec sheet parameters, this I know. I don't care about losing warranty. I also understand it may not produce any more power than 2000 watts. I just want it to be stable and not shut down.
> 
> And to be honest, when I turn it up it will only be for 1-2 tracks at a time. The super silly "turn it up" mode is only for 5-10 minutes at a time. Normal listening range is like 85-95db. Silly mode is like 120db once in awhile.
> 
> The setup is 3 DVC 2ohm 12" Adire Brahma Rev 2.5's wired in series/parallel for a 1.33ohm load. The amp is a Zapco Z-1100.1 AP monoblock.


Hook those subs up to that thing and run it hard until it fries all those little Chinese components and circuitry. And none of those specs are accurate anyway. Take that AP to get tested and you will notice it does not make rated power in 4 or 2 ohms and the signal to noise ration of 110db is a joke. More like 90db. Also the bias cannot be adjusted to eliminate crossover distortion. The damping factor is 14 to 15, which is low. And be careful with the terminal screws. The internal threads are made with such cheap metal they strip easily. How do I know? I just sent a brand new one that was only bench powered a couple times to an engineer and technician for terminal replacement and full test. The older Korean made models were better built, like the ZX series and possibly the LX series. For some reason the prices of the AP series have significantly increase. It sure is not due the poor quality control and production getting any better.


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## Niebur3

LR Drvr said:


> Hook those subs up to that thing and run it hard until it fries all those little Chinese components and circuitry. And none of those specs are accurate anyway. Take that AP to get tested and you will notice it does not make rated power in 4 or 2 ohms and the signal to noise ration of 110db is a joke. More like 90db. Also the bias cannot be adjusted to eliminate crossover distortion. The damping factor is 14 to 15, which is low. And be careful with the terminal screws. The internal threads are made with such cheap metal they strip easily. How do I know? I just sent a brand new one that was only bench powered a couple times to an engineer and technician for terminal replacement and full test. The older Korean made models were better built, like the ZX series and possibly the LX series. For some reason the prices of the AP series have significantly increase. It sure is not due the poor quality control and production getting any better.



Who are you and why do you keep bringing up old threads to bash Zapco? Hiding your profile......TROLL!!!!!! @JimmyDee @MythosDreamLab


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