# SQL build



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

My goal for this install is to have a realistic sound stage with good imagining and clarity. Oh yeah, and high output  

HU: Pioneer DEX-P99RS
Synthesizer: ZED RA
Battery: (2) XS Power D3400
Sub: Sundown 18" Z.3
Sub amp: DD M3a
Alternator: 200A Excessive Amperage
Front stage mid: (4) Dayton Audio RS100T-8 4" Reference Woofer Truncated Frame
Front stage tweeter: (2) Dayton Audio RS28F-4 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter With Truncates Plates
Front stage midbass: (2) Dayton Audio RS225-4 8" Reference Woofer
Front stage amp: Arc Audio KS 900.6

My Sundown 18" Z.3 :laugh:









I had to cut/weld in the trunk opening area to make it fit.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Enclosure build pics.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I need to make a trim ring around the port opening yet.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I have lots of equipment that needs installed.



























I will be tuning with the help of a Dayton Audio mic, Art preamp and some software.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Dayton Audio drivers. I will not be using the amps pictured.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Build RCA's


----------



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

You have quite a lot of skill and craftsmanship.

All Dayton front stage, hard to go wrong there I think. With what looks to be about 140db+ of substage. Cool build.


----------



## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

^What he said!  In for this one!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

schmiddr2 said:


> You have quite a lot of skill and craftsmanship.
> 
> All Dayton front stage, hard to go wrong there I think. With what looks to be about 140db+ of substage. Cool build.


I use a lot of Dayton Audio products in both my car and my home. Excellent value. I know I could have spent 4x more and bought better drivers to fit my application.



sinister-kustoms said:


> ^What he said!  In for this one!


:beerchug:


----------



## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

nice work! sub looks sick.i bet at tuning freq. that vent is gonna have some serious output.those aura amps were a nice buy out from parts express?i almost bought some too.nice to see you using the dayton stuff,ive used it for years never had any issues,nice people to deal with too.good luck on your build looks great.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

jpeezy said:


> nice work! sub looks sick.i bet at tuning freq. that vent is gonna have some serious output.those aura amps were a nice buy out from parts express?i almost bought some too.nice to see you using the dayton stuff,ive used it for years never had any issues,nice people to deal with too.good luck on your build looks great.



The port is 8" with flared aero ends on both ends. The enclosure is 5.8^3ft net, tuned to 30hz. I am very excited to hear it  Based on WinISD this alignment gives a very flat FR but will all know what happens to that in a vehicle 

Yes I did buy those Auras from PE. I was originally going to use all three for the front stage. My system layout has changed since I first started the build. I decided that one 6ch amp was more suited for my limited install space. *All three Aura 2300's are for sale!*

Like a mentioned I have numerous Dayton Audio products, not just loudspeakers. I use them in my home as well. The microphone cable I use for my RCA's are Dayton Audio cable. I should be a shareholder within Parts Express just based on the amount of orders they have received form me


----------



## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

car looks great man. hope those daytons work well, been looking at them more and more lately


----------



## ek9cv5 (Jan 12, 2012)

That sub is beast and nice fab work with the rcas


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

MTopper said:


> car looks great man. hope those daytons work well, been looking at them more and more lately





ek9cv5 said:


> That sub is beast and nice fab work with the rcas


Thanks fellas!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I made a little shelf for the voltage regulator to sit on. I welded it to a factory bracket then painted it with rubber undercoating (top and bottom)



















I integrated a 88mm idler pulley into the factory alternator serpentine system to increase alternator belt wrap.










Here is a pic of my previous install. I made a fake faceplate using the factory radio face.




























I wanted to change things up a little. Crutchfield sent me an install kit with my P99RS but it was cracked.










I removed the fake factory controls and used the bottom tray. I also relocated my voltage meter. The P99RS has a built in voltage display but I wanted to used another since I am not familiar with the accuracy on the P99RS voltage read out.


----------



## joe89 (Apr 2, 2012)

This is my style. Excellent looking install, and sweet equipment to boot. What's that software you are using to tune?


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

joe89 said:


> This is my style. Excellent looking install, and sweet equipment to boot. What's that software you are using to tune?


Thanks a lot joe89!

I am using TrueRTA from True Audio and Autosound 2000 test collection.

I am not necessarily tuning for the flattest RTA reading. First and foremost it has to sound good. I am using the measurement equipment as a last resort check.

I have found numerous useful techniques here on DIYMA that I will be using to setup my equipment with my ears


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I fabricated a simple battery box for my auxiliary battery. It is mounted in the spare tire well.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Both amps are mounted under the front seats. I need to make a false floor to cover the amps.










I also picked up some automotive 4/0. I will be adding a run from the alternator and a negative run to the rear battery.

Here are a couple comparison pics with Stinger HPM 1/0.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

The Sundown 18" Z.3 is an amazing driver. It accurately reproduces any type of genre and when I crank of the volume knob it gets nuts! 

I have a severe rear deck rattle at high volume. Very frustrating, I have to tackle this issue before anything else.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Minor update. False floors made for the amps.


----------



## .:stealth:. (Oct 29, 2011)

That's some amazing skills... hopefully the port doesn't blow your back window off cranked and playing 30 Hz.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

.:stealth:. said:


> That's some amazing skills... hopefully the port doesn't blow your back window off cranked and playing 30 Hz.


Thanks, I do not here that on this forum. Thanks again!


----------



## RMF419 (Feb 13, 2008)

Looks nice, no substitute for talent...


----------



## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

Looks good. Pics are awesome!


----------



## pjc (May 3, 2009)

Insane. I love it. Nice and hiden but ready to get down.


----------



## Lymen (Aug 9, 2011)

^Agree'd minty fresh work so far, can't wait to see what tricks are in the works for the front stage.


----------



## JWAT15 (Mar 6, 2011)

i just loveee cute rainbow RCAS ... 

jk but looks killer so far!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks for all the comments. I am dying to get the cover made for the port and to start the front stage. Too cold yet to fiberglass and too little free time to start mocking things up.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I started working on the front stage mid bass install.

Baffle mock up



























Dead pedal removal


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

AP mat install


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Hopefully tomorrow I will get most of the midbass enclosure build completed.


----------



## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, PE is one of my favorite places to shop. My whole front stage (and sub, for that matter) came from PE...

On your RCA's are those the P3 ends from PE? I'm between those and Neutrik Profi's (yeah, I know the Profi's are pricey. lol)

Jay


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

JayinMI said:


> Yeah, PE is one of my favorite places to shop. My whole front stage (and sub, for that matter) came from PE...
> 
> On your RCA's are those the P3 ends from PE? I'm between those and Neutrik Profi's (yeah, I know the Profi's are pricey. lol)
> 
> Jay


Yes they are the P3. They are short and may need drilled for heavier wire.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I mounted the mid bass baffles today. They are screwed to the body of the car and I used expanding foam to seal them off. I believe they are sealed well now but I am also sure I will have small leaks that I will need to address after the mid bass speakers are installed.

After I make the mounting rings and will be able to finish the baffles completely.










I also laid down CCF and MLV in the rear.











Expanding foam trimmed.











I cut my own carpet (acoustically transparent). I am doing it in two pieces to make it easier. It looks pretty ****ty in this pic but after mounted the amps and seats it looks pretty good.


----------



## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Nice work! Can you please elaborate on the AP install? I see you've installed the vent, but then it looks like you've covered over it with something. Is it just another chamber that vents out through the mesh at the bottom?


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

sinister-kustoms said:


> Nice work! Can you please elaborate on the AP install? I see you've installed the vent, but then it looks like you've covered over it with something. Is it just another chamber that vents out through the mesh at the bottom?


You got it.

The ap mat is made of fiberglass like material. It is not designed to be exposed to snow/ice/rain. I covered it with hobby plastic making sure that the vent still has room to breathe. The grill on the bottom side of my car is the only opening between the hobby plastic and the inner fender well. I made a grill for it to help prevent water spray coming from the front wheels going up into the cavity and into the vent. I had to trim the factory inner fender well plastic slightly to prevent tire rub.

Everything you said is correct.


----------



## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Makes sense now, thank you!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Here are pics of how I finished up the midbass install.























































I ended up ditching the RS225's. They just didn't have any midbass output in the ap enclosures IB wasn't any different. A big ported enclosure would be much more suited for this driver. I am currently using JL Audio ZR800-CW without the AP mats running IB. They sound excellent!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Moving on to the midrange install. The enclosures are built. I need to flock them yet.














































'Lil paint before flocking




























I am currently crossing at 400hz and 6.3khz. Even in a horizontal array layout they sound great crossed that high. I haven't adjusted EQ yet but I have set T/A. I am amazed I never had a center image this good. I am waiting to finish my tweeter install then I will fully tune the front stage. I currently am using tweeters from a Viper (DEI) set that I have installed in my sail panels.

I will be using Scan Speak D2904/60000 tweeters. I originally planned on using RS28. Side by side pic.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

BTW I sold my Z.3 18" and will be using two Z.3 15" with an American Bass VFL 450.1

I am excited to get these bad boys installed but I have to finish my front stage first!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh yeah... I entered a MECA comp and did a 142.87 at 35hz with the Z.3 18"

http://youtu.be/tq7nz26xnRU





********Edit, I can not figure out how to post a youtube video on here to save my life!!!! AGHHH*******


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

this is super cool install talk about 10 pounds of **** in 3 pound sack


----------



## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm liking the way you're tackling the elantra's (I'm pretty sure this is an elantra ~2010 era) challenges. I'm not sure that I'd have the courage to put an AP vent in the fender wells, but maybe you're more of a man than I. My plan for dash pods is very similar, let me know how you like yours.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

optimaprime said:


> this is super cool install talk about 10 pounds of **** in 3 pound sack


Exactly! This is my last small car!



stochastic said:


> I'm liking the way you're tackling the elantra's (I'm pretty sure this is an elantra ~2010 era) challenges. I'm not sure that I'd have the courage to put an AP vent in the fender wells, but maybe you're more of a man than I. My plan for dash pods is very similar, let me know how you like yours.


The dash mounted mids sound amazing. the soundstage is perfect and imaging is spot on. 

My only complaint is their size. They are not HUGE but they are big enough. I am already looking into a single 4" setup. Maybe a FaitalPRO 4FE32/4FE35?


----------



## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

edouble101 said:


> The dash mounted mids sound amazing. the soundstage is perfect and imaging is spot on.
> 
> My only complaint is their size. They are not HUGE but they are big enough. I am already looking into a single 4" setup. Maybe a FaitalPRO 4FE32/4FE35?


Cool, good to hear. I'm currently building a very wide and not very tall pair of enclosures to house two MA Alpair10's (10cm = ~4") to give the airspace they want without obstructing the view. I've got an elantra too, so essentially the same dash/windshield.


----------



## hyundave (Jun 7, 2012)

This is an absolutely phenomenal build. I love everything you've done with it. I own a 2008 elantra. I honestly thought I was one of the very few who has done audio modifications to an elantra (or any modifications for that matter). Insane work and completely surpasses anything that I've done in my own car. Very impressed and have bookmarked this page for more in depth reading later on.

Just curious, are you a member of either elantraxd or elantraclub? I'm the same name on both sites. 

Once again - awesome job. One day... I'll get to this level. One day hahaha


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

hyundave said:


> This is an absolutely phenomenal build. I love everything you've done with it. I own a 2008 elantra. I honestly thought I was one of the very few who has done audio modifications to an elantra (or any modifications for that matter). Insane work and completely surpasses anything that I've done in my own car. Very impressed and have bookmarked this page for more in depth reading later on.
> 
> Just curious, are you a member of either elantraxd or elantraclub? I'm the same name on both sites.
> 
> Once again - awesome job. One day... I'll get to this level. One day hahaha


Thanks for commenting on my build! I noticed that you do not live far from me at all, about 2 hours. We should get together sometime at a show.

I am a member of elantraclub, username is edouble. I do not frequent there but do pop in once in a while.


----------



## hyundave (Jun 7, 2012)

edouble101 said:


> We should get together sometime at a show.


I'd love to. I don't even know any shows that have gone on recently around here? 

If it's some time next summer or during winter break when I'm back from virginia tech, I'm definitely game.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

After hours of testing with three different sets of mids I finally found a set I am in love with 

And the winner is...... Tang Band W4-1337SD

I wanted to mount the mid and tweeter in the a-pillar. I did not like the look of the dash pods. I was contemplating not using the Tang Band W4-1337SD due to it's size but it was the only driver that gave me the stage width I was searching for. And here I thought my horizontal array imaged good, lol that is nothing compared to the Tang Band W4-1337SD setup!

As of right now the pods are drying from flocking



















The tweeter is will be mounted in the pods as well.


----------



## JDKauff5 (Jan 23, 2011)

Great work so far the pods ate looking good


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

JDKauff5 said:


> Great work so far the pods ate looking good



Thanks I am hoping to have the finished pods installed later today! Front stage done! <----- I have been waiting a long time to say that


----------



## sweefu (Jun 26, 2011)

Very cool install mate, I will keep a close eye on this. Are you going to install your new subs in a similar box that you have now with the 18"? Or perhaps an IB configuration? 
Keep up the great work!


----------



## scatterbrain (Oct 14, 2011)

Looks good.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

The pods are complete. The flocked pods are much lighter than what the fibers are in the bag. I should have used a darker base coat. Next up for the front stage is tuning 

Driver's side:



















Passenger side:



















I finished my carpet job in the car, I am stoked


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Trunk is cleared. Z.3 18" and M3a have been sold a moth ago  Only D3400 remains










Up next. VFL-450.1 (2) Z.3 15" and (2) D3100 to go along with my D3400










Z.3 goodness



















It will fit


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I have been using an Ohio Generator 275a alternator for about a month now. I cant wait to see how it acts on my stock PCM with +4500wrms

I had to machine bushings to make it fit.



















With my idler pulley










Installed


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

sweefu said:


> Very cool install mate, I will keep a close eye on this. Are you going to install your new subs in a similar box that you have now with the 18"? Or perhaps an IB configuration?
> Keep up the great work!


Thanks!

The 15"s are going to be in a similar enclosure. Going to be starting that next.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I cut floor mats out of the same carpet I used for the floor. I had binding stitched on them at a local carpet store.






























I am going to use the same carpet to make a dash mat. Instead of binding the edges of the dash mat I will have serging used. That will look much nicer than a stitched edge.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I havent updated this log in a while...

Front stage is redone with JL mids and LPG tweets.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I am using Fi Audio IB315's. I made a grill to replace the rear seat arm rest.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I replaced the IB3 dustcaps with carbon fiber caps.




























I welded together a bracket and then welded that to the car as a brace for the baffle.


----------



## baggedbirds (Sep 21, 2008)

Nice !


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

baggedbirds said:


> Nice !


Thanks. As soon as the weather gets nice it is getting cleaned inside and out!


----------



## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow!  How does the new setup sound?


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

sinister-kustoms said:


> Wow!  How does the new setup sound?


Keep in mind I never heard an SQ car.

The front stage is amazing. I am not using top of the line speakers but I am very impressed. The stage never wanders, the center image is great but the stage width could be improved upon...somehow. Highs and midrange are loud and not fatiguing. I will note the midbass is above the dash, focused and never has the "rainbow" affect. I love the JL ZR800's!

I am still working on the amp mount for the subs so they have not been powered. Hopefully the end of this weekend the subs will be playing, then tuned!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

As you guys can probably see I like to work with metal. Much more so than wood. so of course my amp mount involves metal!

There is nothing wrong with the stock bottom cover panel on the 1500D. But I do need to make a new one for my amp mount.

This will all make sense as I go on.



I am using slightly thicker metal, about 0.050" thicker.










I was originally going to use a transfer punch for the holes but a regular 'ol hole punch worked fine.










I am using slightly larger screws to secure the bottom plate and I am using 18 versues 8. 



















Wood mount on the car.










Pedestal in it's raw form.













More to come!


----------



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Nice work with the metal. I too like dabbling with the welder once in a while 

The mids/tweets setup looks much nicer, and I'm sure you appreciate not staring at them while driving...

I see you are in PA. There are a few PA folks who compete in SQ, might be worth listening to a few of their cars.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

pocket5s said:


> Nice work with the metal. I too like dabbling with the welder once in a while
> 
> The mids/tweets setup looks much nicer, and I'm sure you appreciate not staring at them while driving...
> 
> I see you are in PA. There are a few PA folks who compete in SQ, might be worth listening to a few of their cars.


Yes sir! Dash mounted drivers are a no no.

I do plan on reaching out to a few guys as soon as this is done and tidied up. Unfortunately the SQ comp scene here in PA is no existence this year. 

Sundown love...










Mounts.










How it all goes together.


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

Excellent build man! Very nice work!!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> Excellent build man! Very nice work!!


Thanks. Your build log has brought me lots of inspiration for future installs.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Alright the amp is mounted! I need to run the wires to the subs and install a fuse for the amp.

The mount is very sturdy.


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

ah ha! I see where you were going with this now. Nifty!!


----------



## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

shawnk said:


> ah ha! I see where you were going with this now. Nifty!!



Very, very cool. Between you and Shawn, I have many new ideas for my install.


----------



## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

OK Eric, I have a question. Does the false floor make the amps get too hot?


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

RandyJ75 said:


> Very, very cool. Between you and Shawn, I have many new ideas for my install.


If you ever need a helping hand hit me up! 



RandyJ75 said:


> OK Eric, I have a question. Does the false floor make the amps get too hot?


Not at all. The KS900.6 has a built in fan and the factory under seat ac/heating vent is directly in front of it.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Amp install is complete!























No matter what I do tuning wise I can not get the "up front" bass. Any thoughts?


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

edouble101 said:


> No matter what I do tuning wise I can not get the "up front" bass. Any thoughts?



Nice job!

I've never really liked the term "up front bass". Although I haven't necessarily come up with a better term myself :blush:

The midbass should attack you in the front, and with your set up, I'm sure it does. Ideally, true low frequency content should surround you more than anything (no localization). Afterall, bass is omnidirectional.

That being said, I understand (I think) what you're looking for. So I ask what are your crossover points, and do you have any (at all whatsoever) rattles or buzz's coming from the the interior (especially the rear)?


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> Nice job!
> 
> I've never really liked the term "up front bass". Although I haven't necessarily come up with a better term myself :blush:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Shawn.

I think the midbass is spot on for this setup. I can not localize the midbass drivers. I worked hard with the tuning to achieve that! Possibly a trained ear will disagree...

According to my rta measurements the subs start to roll off hard at 100hz. I was able to minimize the subs localization with an 80hz low pass at 18db. I have the midbass set at 80hz high pass at 12db. If I bump up the low pass on the subs I can hear them behind me more than at a 80hz low pass.

I do agree that the sound from the subs is surrounding me. I was really expecting it sound like it is coming from in front of me 

I am pleased to say that I do not have any rattles  Trust me that is not a sign of low output becuase these subs have plenty  For normal listening the sub level is adjusted down.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I should have stated my tuning technique.

All using uncorrelated pink noise.

1. Level match (gradual increase from approx. 300hz on down)
2. Adjust phase (subs, midbass, mid, highs independently then as pairs, subs and midbass, mids and highs)
3. Level match for center image
4. Re-check phase
5. EQ
6. TA (independently)


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

edouble101 said:


> If I bump up the low pass on the subs I can hear them behind me more than at a 80hz low pass..


Makes perfect sense! So much of this depends on your listening habbits, and goals. For instance, for "most" of my listening, my lowpass for the sub is 56hz @ 24db. Midbass takes over @ 70hz. The gap in between helps negate some of the cabin gain bump. It is easily the best blending of sub/midbass I've ever had  True "sub" bass is enveloping and you truly cannont discern just where it's coming from. 

I'm not implying that you should copy me, just throwing it out there. I would try dropping the crossover point even lower for both the sub and midbass. At least give it a shot. When you really want to jam (loud) and save the midbass's from throwing a fit, bump up the crossover point for both again. I didn't catch what you're using for processor power, if any, but having some presets for this can certainly help.





edouble101 said:


> I do agree that the sound from the subs is surrounding me. I was really expecting it sound like it is coming from in front of me


IMO, this is the way it should be


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> Makes perfect sense! So much of this depends on your listening habbits, and goals. For instance, for "most" of my listening, my lowpass for the sub is 56hz @ 24db. Midbass takes over @ 70hz. The gap in between helps negate some of the cabin gain bump. It is easily the best blending of sub/midbass I've ever had  True "sub" bass is enveloping and you truly cannont discern just where it's coming from.
> 
> I'm not implying that you should copy me, just throwing it out there. I would try dropping the crossover point even lower for both the sub and midbass. At least give it a shot. When you really want to jam (loud) and save the midbass's from throwing a fit, bump up the crossover point for both again. I didn't catch what you're using for processor power, if any, but having some presets for this can certainly help.
> 
> ...


Got it! I will continue to adjust and listen over the next week or so and I will let you know what I come up with.

I am using a Pioneer P99RS head unit. All audio adjustments are handled with it. I do not have a separate processor.


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

edouble101 said:


> Got it! I will continue to adjust and listen over the next week or so and I will let you know what I come up with.
> 
> I am using a Pioneer P99RS head unit. All audio adjustments are handled with it. I do not have a separate processor.


P99...nice! I am envious


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> P99...nice! I am envious


I really enjoy having all the adjustment in one unit!



I did have a couple hours today to retune. I have also been adjusted while driving my 33 mile trip one way to work these past couple days.

There are a few things that may be slightly, or more than I think, affecting my results.

1. The baffle for the IB is not completely sealed. I still have to run some expanding foam around the edges to seal it up. I am waiting for warmer weather. High output (spl) and the absence of mechanical noise lead me to believe the final sealing may not do much.

2. My RTA rig is my laptop (Vizio CT15), a USB preamp and a Dayton Audio EMM-6 mic. I have no way of adjusting the laptop's internal sound card. I can not create a sound loop it only has a headphone output no input. If anybody has any suggestions to a good usb preamp/soundcard let me know!


I setup my RTA rig and aimed for a flat response with a slight bump on the bottom end. I use the RTA to get a baseline and then adjust the EQ by ear afterwards..










The resulting sound was flat and lifeless, go figure. I did notice a few things that are pretty big issues. The midbass has a big bump from 125hz-250hz and it falls of quickly under 100hz. With a 53hz high pass I need lots of eq to get a flat response form 80-250hz. So much boost at 80hz that I feel it isn't a good idea. I have a feeling this issue is a result of the mounting location in this vehicle. Others have commented that the ZR800 has plenty of low end output, I do not see or hear that.


On to adjusting by ear....


Subs - (reverse phase) The sub system starts to peak from 50hz on down and flattens out from 35-25hz. Due to the lack of midbass output in the upper bass frequencies I decided on a [email protected] low pass for the subs. On the eq I had to cut under 50hz and boost 63 and 80hz. The subs are high passed at [email protected] Taking the low pass any lower results in a noticeable lack of output in that frequency range.

Midbass - (normal phase) I thought the midbass was good until I added subs. They are set at a [email protected] high pass and [email protected] low pass. I am cutting from 100-250hz, boosting 315hz. The midbass start to roll off hard after 250hz. A 400hz low pass really helps stage width. I my increase the low pass.

Midrange - (normal phase) High pass [email protected] to [email protected] EQ'ing throughout this range, nothing crazy. The mids start to roll off around 500hz, the boost at 315hz doesn't affect them too much. The 315hz high pass was chosen because it help stage width and depth.

Highs - (normal phase) I would cross them lower but my LPG 25NFA are not really good for low xovers. They sound good high passed at [email protected]



Blending with the mids and tweets is seamless. I can not detect a the crossover point. Staging and imaging is good. Strong center image, stage width is slightly wider than the pillars and stage depth is slightly beyond the dash. Midbass are undetectable. 

The issue now is with the subs. They have been pulling my stage behind me. Today's retune has gotten it much better but it is not where it should be imo.


*Thoughts??? Thanks!!!*


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Today's tuning has lead me in the right direction. I had on of those "ah ha!" moments lol. By adjusting the level up on the midbass drivers the sub bass started to blend into the front stage  Basically what this tells me is that by using my poorly setup RTA rig the midbass level was too low. I also have to cut a little more in the 150-250hz range. This weekend I am going to start form scratch, again. I am first going to reset all the gains on my KS900.6. I now know that the midbass gain on the amp is too low.


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

edouble101 said:


> Today's tuning has lead me in the right direction. I had on of those "ah ha!" moments lol. By adjusting the level up on the midbass drivers the sub bass started to blend into the front stage  Basically what this tells me is that by using my poorly setup RTA rig the midbass level was too low. I also have to cut a little more in the 150-250hz range. This weekend I am going to start form scratch, again. I am first going to reset all the gains on my KS900.6. I now know that the midbass gain on the amp is too low.


Good deal! Sorry I haven't had much time to comment lately 

I too have cut some in the same midbass bandwidth.... interesting!

As a suggestion, grab a note-pad and take notes along your journey of tuning. Note everything from crossover points, to gain settings, eq and time alignment settings as well as a your thoughts on improvements or dislikes along the way


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> Good deal! Sorry I haven't had much time to comment lately
> 
> I too have cut some in the same midbass bandwidth.... interesting!
> 
> As a suggestion, grab a note-pad and take notes along your journey of tuning. Note everything from crossover points, to gain settings, eq and time alignment settings as well as a your thoughts on improvements or dislikes along the way


Great idea Shawn! 

I am going to give it another stab this weekend. Jotting notes before and after. Then I am going to reset and see what the P99 comes up with on auto-tune and auto-eq. This should be interesting!


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

Best of luck!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> Best of luck!


Thanks! I rreally appreciate your attention to my build :beerchug:

I plan on using HLCD's in my next build (mid size SUV) that may come sooner than later. I posted my IB setup on www.backyardinstallers.com That forum is ran by Matt Borgart who is in close connection with Eric Stevens. They maybe business partners. Anyways I joined that forum to gain knowledge of HLCD setups.

A member on that forum posted this today :

_XtremeRevolution, on 21 Mar 2013 - 16:15, said:
Don't waste your time with self expanding foam. If you have solid output, that won't help anything.

I had a similar issue as you did. I believe you're still having some cancellation issues at 65-125hz. With those slopes, it's a high possibility. Here's what I did.

Play a test tone smack dab in the crossover point. 80hz. Then start disconnecting speakers. Start with each midbass driver and pay attention to your change in output. I will tell you this: I'm very anal about installing everything in my car correctly, but after a few months of searching to determine why my Silver Flutes and IDQ15 were not giving me the punch and attack at 70-100hz that I wanted, I tried...weird things. In my car, the solution was to run one midbass driver in reversed polarity. I use a miniDSP as my crossover so I just flipped the switch on that driver and everything changed. I was astounded. I ganed a lot of midbass output now I can really feel kick drums in my chest. It brought my sound stage forward and I solved my problem._

Gonna give this a try!


----------



## ecobass (Oct 15, 2012)

Dude you got some mad fab. skills , I'm so jealous ( the good way) lol... keep up the great work.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

ecobass said:


> Dude you got some mad fab. skills , I'm so jealous ( the good way) lol... keep up the great work.


Thanks! I am already anxious to start my next build


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I readjusted the gains on my KS900.6. I used two 8 ohm non-inductive dummy loads wired together for 4 ohms, a hand held o-scope and DMM. I had previously set the gains with a DMM only. It turned out that the midbass channels on the KS900.6 was set at a whooping 20 watts :surprised: at my max listening volume (42/62). Needless to say that the midbass output is much improved now  The ZR800's still drop on their face from 100hz on down. I do not see how anybody can say they have good bass output. 

I setup my desktop with a M-Audio 192 soundcard. I calibrated the soundcard and used the desktop for today's measurements. I also took the same measurement with my laptop. I simply unplugged the USB from the desktop and plugged it into the laptop. No other changes. Other than the overall level the graphs are pretty similar, close enough for my garage testings. The biggest change is on the laptop around 20khz. 

The green plot is the laptop, the purple plot is the desktop.









As you can see the plots aren't perfect. I did my best with level setting, phase and xover points to get the graph as smooth as possible without EQ. I could not tame the subs under 40hz, lots of cutting. 32hz seems to be the resonant freq for this car. All sub systems I've had peaked there. Boosting at 63hz, cutting at 80hz. I could not get 320hz to budge  640hz was another issue. 10khz on up needed boosting as well. Even though the substage/midbass are nearly 20db louder than the mids/highs I think it sounds like it should.

The final xover settings were decided on based on max levels on the RTA. From 50-100hz was always an issue with this install. The subs are low passed at [email protected] It looks weird on paper but the midbass is high passed at [email protected] Looks weird but that is what sounded the best. The midbass drivers are in normal phase and the subs are set at reverse phase. The ZR800 start to roll off around 200hz and the mids start to roll off around 400hz. I choose 315hz to cross them at. The mids/tweets are crossed an 3.15khz. Midbass/mids/tweets are normal phase. 

The green plot is the sub and midbass both set a normal phase.
The purple plot is the sub in reverse phase, midbass normal phase.
The blue plot is the sub in normal phase, midbass reverse phase.










The subsystem is blending into the front stage much much better now. I am very pleased! I have contacted chefhow, a multi MECA PA state champ, and he is willing to listen to my car and give me some pointers  I am anxious to hear what he says!





Next things to do is to glue some carpet down in a few spots and replace my XS Power D3400, it isn't holding a good charge anymore (about 4 years old). I think I am replacing it with a Sears Diehard Platinum group 65.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Here are the plots of the all drivers running full range (except tweets). This helped me choose my xover points.


















Always open to suggestions/thoughts!!!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

So.... as it turns out one of my IB315's is phucked. I noticed this when I first powered them up that there was a rattle in the trunk. I could only hear it when the trunk lid was open and I was standing at the rear of the car. In the cabin the noise wasn't really audible. I passed it off as a trunk rattle. Although over the past couple days I realized that on a few songs I could hear a rattle. After investigation one of the subs sounds as if the motor has shifted. The dcr is spot on and there is no coil rub that I can hear. I contacted Fi but I doubt any resolution will come of it.



So....I am looking into different subs. The IB3 resulted in a boosted low end with not much upper bass output. Not the ideal setup. I think this is the result of a high qts/low fs IB setup in a 14.5^3ft trunk. Before I bought the IB3 I was also looking at SI HT15. The HT15 has a much lower qts with an even lower fs. I think these will be more suited for my install. The bottom end shouldn't be as boosted and the HT have been noted to have a response well into the upper bass region. This should be a win!


If it wasn't for the screwed up sub I wouldn't change them at this time. I am now getting tired of spending money and time on this car!


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Thankfully both IB315's are working fine. I discovered that one of the dustcaps wasnt glued properly in a small section. After I reglued it all is well  

No sub change for now. Although it would be nice to have an actual comparison between these high qts subs and a lower qts (HT15) sub.


----------



## shawnk (Jan 11, 2010)

*Congratulations on your new baby girl Eric!!*:beerchug:


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

shawnk said:


> *Congratulations on your new baby girl Eric!!*:beerchug:


Thanks Shawn! Wifey appreciates your thoughts as well!


----------

