# How to deal with holes in door panel when sound deadening?



## cabro

I'm getting ready to apply sound deadener (damplifier pro) to my doors and i'm wondering how to deal with the holes in the door. Here are the three scenarios i've seen from doing some research.

1) Cut out thin sheets of aluminum to match the shape of the holes and then glue them in place

2) Sound deaden the entire door and cut out out the holes

3) Sound deaden the entire door including the holes

Just wondering what the pros or cons are of each method. I'm ok with doing extra work if it's worth while.

I've attached a screenshot and circled the area in question in red.

Thanks!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

I would find a 1/4" thick cutting board large enough and use that, it won't cut the paint like metal could..... That's a pretty large hole... 

The more the door is sealed the better... 


Pre(ish)











post


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## f5racing

When I plugged the holes in my doors, I used thin steel sheets. I rolled a bead in both directions to add a little mechanical stiffness to them, then used sheet metal screws to hold them in place. I also used butyl rope between the sheet and the door to avoid metal to metal contact. Then I covered the plug with CLD to prevent any rattle/buzz. After that I just treated it like a solid piece of the door.


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## cabro

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I would find a 1/4" thick cutting board


Sorry if i'm a little dense here but what's a cutting board?


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## cabro

f5racing said:


> When I plugged the holes in my doors, I used thin steel sheets. I rolled a bead in both directions to add a little mechanical stiffness to them, then used sheet metal screws to hold them in place. I also used butyl rope between the sheet and the door to avoid metal to metal contact. Then I covered the plug with CLD to prevent any rattle/buzz. After that I just treated it like a solid piece of the door.


I definitely can't role a bead but if I can attach the piece very securely and apply the deadner over top, hopefully it will be stiff enough.

One thing I don't understand, is for the people who just apply the deadner right over the hole, wouldn't the back side of the deadner be really sticky where the hole is and does that cause issue with crap getting stuck to it?


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## JimAckley

cabro said:


> One thing I don't understand, is for the people who just apply the deadner right over the hole, wouldn't the back side of the deadner be really sticky where the hole is and does that cause issue with crap getting stuck to it?


You could simply just not remove the paper backing to reveal the sticky material.


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## Jericho941

cabro said:


> I definitely can't role a bead but if I can attach the piece very securely and apply the deadner over top, hopefully it will be stiff enough.
> 
> One thing I don't understand, is for the people who just apply the deadner right over the hole, wouldn't the back side of the deadner be really sticky where the hole is and does that cause issue with crap getting stuck to it?


Its mostly a waste of the deadener. If you have to seal them off use cutting board material, sheetmetal or plexiglass and only apply 25% coverage. Covering everything has diminishing returns. Also having to remove the CLD tiles for servicing the window or other door wiring would be messy and the tiles won't be reusable. I have read that the most current technique of closed cell foam beneath MLV is more effective than worrying about sealing the doors. The foam and the vinyl does the sealing.


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## f5racing

cabro said:


> I definitely can't role a bead but if I can attach the piece very securely and apply the deadner over top, hopefully it will be stiff enough.
> 
> One thing I don't understand, is for the people who just apply the deadner right over the hole, wouldn't the back side of the deadner be really sticky where the hole is and does that cause issue with crap getting stuck to it?


You can use thicker material as well (steel, king starboard, poly cutting boards). You can substitute CLD on both sides of a thinner material as well.


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## f5racing

Jericho941 said:


> Its mostly a waste of the deadener. If you have to seal them off use cutting board material, sheetmetal or plexiglass and only apply 25% coverage. Covering everything has diminishing returns. Also having to remove the CLD tiles for servicing the window or other door wiring would be messy and the tiles won't be reusable. I have read that the most current technique of closed cell foam beneath MLV is more effective than worrying about sealing the doors. The foam and the vinyl does the sealing.


I would have to agree.

Anything over 4" in diameter I sealed off with a piece of sheet metal, anything under I allowed the CCF and MLV to do the work. Works well so far.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

cabro said:


> Sorry if i'm a little dense here but what's a cutting board?


 
What you cut stuff on for say, dinner??


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

f5racing said:


> When I plugged the holes in my doors, I used thin steel sheets. I rolled a bead in both directions to add a little mechanical stiffness to them, then used sheet metal screws to hold them in place. I also used butyl rope between the sheet and the door to avoid metal to metal contact. Then I covered the plug with CLD to prevent any rattle/buzz. After that I just treated it like a solid piece of the door.


Not the most highly recomemded method, considering you just broken the paint in an area that gets moisture pretty regular (depending on living area of course) 

Rust is the enemy, ESPECIALlY when it's able to be trapped in small places.. 



cabro said:


> I definitely can't role a bead but if I can attach the piece very securely and apply the deadner over top, hopefully it will be stiff enough.
> 
> One thing I don't understand, is for the people who just apply the deadner right over the hole, wouldn't the back side of the deadner be really sticky where the hole is and does that cause issue with crap getting stuck to it?


 
What difference does it make if stuff gets stuck to the deadener? 

What all do you plan on having dowin inside your door to get stuck? some dust, maybe a few flecks of dirt? 

The small holes in my door I showed above, didn't even bother covering the holes... I've got 2-3 layers of deadener over the holes (it's not going anywhere fast) and it's self supporting (it's also rather stiff deadener to begin with)


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## f5racing

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Not the most highly recomemded method, considering you just broken the paint in an area that gets moisture pretty regular (depending on living area of course)
> 
> Rust is the enemy, ESPECIALlY when it's able to be trapped in small places..


I agree, getting rust in such a place is a bad idea. However, if the panels are cut correctly, and the butyl is applied between the new "panel" and the door, there is no reason that you should have any issues. If it is simply rough cut and thrown in, then it will be bad in the long run.


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## Notloudenuf

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-tutorials/27-simple-cheap-effective-door-treatments.html

Mainstays 12 X 18 Inch Poly Cutting Board - Walmart.com


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## Niebur3

How about just using Cascade Audio VB-2 or VB-2HD? You can sound deaden and cover all the holes in one shot.


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## HondAudio

f5racing said:


> I would have to agree.
> 
> Anything over 4" in diameter I sealed off with a piece of sheet metal, anything under I allowed the CCF and MLV to do the work. Works well so far.


I've sealed a few holes [< 4"] in my doors with a piece of CLD on either side of the hole and stuck to itself within the hole's diameter. It's a mostly-permanent solution... that stuff won't unstick from itself 

If you want the possibility of being able to peel it off, you might put a very thin piece of CCF in the hole between the two pieces of CLD.


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## cabro

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> What you cut stuff on for say, dinner??


That's what first came to mind but I had never heard of such an idea so I assumed I must have misunderstood.


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## cabro

Notloudenuf said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-tutorials/27-simple-cheap-effective-door-treatments.html


I was looking for that thread but couldn't find it again for some reason.

Thank you!


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## cabro

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I've got 2-3 layers of deadener over the holes (it's not going anywhere fast) and it's self supporting (it's also rather stiff deadener to begin with)


I've got some Damplifier Pro and some Alpha Damp. Do you think either of those would be stiff enough to be self supporting?

Maybe one layer from the back and one from the front?


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## nineball

one layer on the outer door skin










one layer on the inner










roofing flashing (aluminum) over the holes with sheet metal screws










cld over that










problem solved.


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## HondAudio

I've been having some thoughts on this in regards to what material to use to cover the holes. I'm thinking of three materials:

* plexiglass/acrylic
* MDF [sprayed with bedliner to block moisture]
* cutting board material

Pros and cons for each:

plexiglass/acrylic:
* lightweight by itself, may adhere to door using silicone alone, non-porous surface will easily accept CLD adhesion
* lightweight - it might flex without sufficient CLD, may be difficult to cut to shape

MDF [sprayed with bedliner to block moisture]:
* heavier in weight - will resist flexing and might not require CLD
* requires screws to fasten to the door securely, will take on moisture if not protected, adds overall weight to door and vehicle, may not accept CLD adhesion

cutting board material:
* equal in weight or heavier than MDF - will resist flexing
* may be difficult to cut to shape, requires screws to fasten to door, adds overall weight to door and car, may not accept CLD adhesion due to texture

I am right in concluding that the plexiglass/acrylic, even with CLD attached, might have the best stiffness/weight ratio? I have spare 1/4" MDF that I can use, as well, and this would be the easiest for me to shape, but I'm concerned about keeping it securely attached to the doors and how much weight it might add.


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## nineball

HondAudio said:


> I've been having some thoughts on this in regards to what material to use to cover the holes. I'm thinking of three materials:
> 
> * plexiglass/acrylic
> * MDF [sprayed with bedliner to block moisture]
> * cutting board material
> 
> Pros and cons for each:
> 
> plexiglass/acrylic:
> * lightweight by itself, may adhere to door using silicone alone, non-porous surface will easily accept CLD adhesion
> * lightweight - it might flex without sufficient CLD, may be difficult to cut to shape
> 
> MDF [sprayed with bedliner to block moisture]:
> * heavier in weight - will resist flexing and might not require CLD
> * requires screws to fasten to the door securely, will take on moisture if not protected, adds overall weight to door and vehicle, may not accept CLD adhesion
> 
> cutting board material:
> * equal in weight or heavier than MDF - will resist flexing
> * may be difficult to cut to shape, requires screws to fasten to door, adds overall weight to door and car, may not accept CLD adhesion due to texture
> 
> I am right in concluding that the plexiglass/acrylic, even with CLD attached, might have the best stiffness/weight ratio? I have spare 1/4" MDF that I can use, as well, and this would be the easiest for me to shape, but I'm concerned about keeping it securely attached to the doors and how much weight it might add.


You can use what ever you want, it really won't be that big of a deal. Your doors will never be a fully sealed chamber due to drain holes in the bottom.


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## jcollin76

The first time I sealed my doors, I used the tin flashing/cld method. Cheap, easy, and did as it was intended. Problem is, when I needed back in my door, you pretty much destroy it in removal.

I looked at everything listed, mdf, plastic, etc. The issue is most doors aren't flat, and they typically have cables/wires passing through.


My latest attempt is full fiberglass plugs. You can accommodate every level change, wire pass, and can make it super ridged... and fit perfect! The con... its time consuming and harder to do. But results are great.

















If I had it to do again, I would use plastic/acrylic for the main flat areas, with glassed transitions where needed. Only because fabrication would be a little faster.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

cabro said:


> I've got some Damplifier Pro and some Alpha Damp. Do you think either of those would be stiff enough to be self supporting?
> 
> Maybe one layer from the back and one from the front?


 
I've got SS D-Pro covering my holes, but my holes are on the small side (and it's not the "ideal" way for sure), if they where any larger then they are now, I would have filled them with something more ridged..


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## cabro

I grabbed some galvanized roof valley flashing (hopefully galvanized metal isn't an issue?) as it seemed a little thicker and will use that for the one large hole. I'm also hoping I can use some type of flexible Butyl Sealant like this and then tape the panel in place until it sets up so I don't have to use screws. Hopefully the sealant, plus the Damplifier Pro on top, will hold it all together.

Dap BUTYL-FLEX Gutter and Flashing Sealant










I also grabbed a bucket of this stuff and am hoping to use it instead of modelling clay around the speakers.

http://www.hardcast.com/products/pdfs/DS321.pdf


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

You might consider making a silicone "bumper" out of a cured thin bead of silicone all around the hole... 

Stick the metal in with a few small dabs of the non-hardening stuff and apply deadener over, trapping the metal to the bumper (not hurting paint) and sticking it all in place...


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## tulse

cabro said:


> I grabbed some galvanized roof valley flashing (hopefully galvanized metal isn't an issue?) as it seemed a little thicker and will use that for the one large hole. I'm also hoping I can use some type of flexible Butyl Sealant like this and then tape the panel in place until it sets up so I don't have to use screws. Hopefully the sealant, plus the Damplifier Pro on top, will hold it all together.
> 
> Dap BUTYL-FLEX Gutter and Flashing Sealant
> 
> View attachment 36463
> 
> 
> 
> I also grabbed a bucket of this stuff and am hoping to use it instead of modelling clay around the speakers.
> 
> http://www.hardcast.com/products/pdfs/DS321.pdf
> 
> View attachment 36464


Home Depot sells ~3/4" butyl strip in a role. It comes in a plain, clear, plastic bag with no label except a bar code. The butyl itself is gray and has a white, peel-off backing. It's really cheap, and works wonderfully for lining the area around hole to be covered and to seal off speakers. 

No taping and waiting to dry.

Edit: The method requires screwing the metal down. Sorry, I missed that you didn't want to use screws.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

tulse said:


> No taping and waiting to dry.
> 
> Edit: The method requires screwing the metal down. Sorry, I missed that you didn't want to use screws.


 
Not necessaraly... see my post just above..


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## cabro

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> You might consider making a silicone "bumper" out of a cured thin bead of silicone all around the hole...
> 
> Stick the metal in with a few small dabs of the non-hardening stuff and apply deadener over, trapping the metal to the bumper (not hurting paint) and sticking it all in place...


Just to make sure I understand, are you suggesting to make a cured "bumper" so that it will be easier to remove the metal panel in case I need to gain access in the future?

I'm assuming you feel that a few small dabs of non-hardening stuff plus the deadner over top will be enough to hold it in securely?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Yep... 

Sent from the other side using mind bullets...(YapaTalk)


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## adrenalinejunkie

tulse said:


> Home Depot sells ~3/4" butyl strip in a role. It comes in a plain, clear, plastic bag with no label except a bar code. The butyl itself is gray and has a white, peel-off backing. It's really cheap, and works wonderfully for lining the area around hole to be covered and to seal off speakers.
> 
> No taping and waiting to dry.
> 
> Edit: The method requires screwing the metal down. Sorry, I missed that you didn't want to use screws.



What department @ Home depot can this stuff you speak of be found?


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## cabro

adrenalinejunkie said:


> What department @ Home depot can this stuff you speak of be found?


I was just there and couldn't find it either. I checked where the caulking is as well as roofing as per a suggestion from one Home Depot employee. I also asked another employee and he didn't recall every seeing it there.

I might try a heating and plumbing store this weekend. They often has more "exotic" products. That's where I found my duct sealant, which Home Depot also didn't carry.


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## tulse

Should be near roofing, flashing, roof repair....


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## HondAudio

I hadn't noticed if they sold it before, but I picked up a 2'x4' sheet of 1/8" MDF at Home Depot yesterday. This will be much easier to cut than acrylic and will have the same weight and 'bendiness' properties


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## abdulwq

thanks for the tips


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## 92blacktt

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I would find a 1/4" thick cutting board large enough and use that, it won't cut the paint like metal could..... That's a pretty large hole...
> 
> The more the door is sealed the better...


what is that black foam ontop of the sound deadener?


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## jcollin76

Looks like 1/8" ccf or Ensolite.


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## 92blacktt

jcollin76 said:


> Looks like 1/8" ccf or Ensolite.


is that to reduce noise? (road noise or other?)


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## jcollin76

92blacktt said:


> is that to reduce noise? (road noise or other?)


No, not so much. Its more for mechanical use. Decoupling MLV and panels, reducing rattles , etc. By itself it won't stop much noise, but between mat and MLV it does help. The more complex, and different the substance being used as a barrier, the better.


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## doeboy

I got a big piece of plexiglass I used in a project years ago. I was wondering if that duct seal would be something to use to place a plexiglass over a hole in the door panel. I hear liquid nails works as well but which kind of liquid nails as there are all kinds of different application types. I already have stinger roadkill all over the metal so it would need to get the plexiglass to stick to that.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

You woukd be better off applyi.g a bead of silicone to the edge of the opening, allowing it to cure... You just made a gasket that wont smush out of the way..

Apply plexy attach and deaden over... 

Sent from the other side using mind bullets...(YapaTalk)


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## doeboy

i was just going to get some like all purpose liquid nails and put it on the plexi and then place it on the door. like this Sealing access panels in doors - Focus Fanatics


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## tulse

doeboy said:


> I got a big piece of plexiglass I used in a project years ago. I was wondering if that duct seal would be something to use to place a plexiglass over a hole in the door panel. I hear liquid nails works as well but which kind of liquid nails as there are all kinds of different application types. I already have stinger roadkill all over the metal so it would need to get the plexiglass to stick to that.


If it's a flat surface, that butyl would be ideal if you were using screws to hold the plexi in place. It makes a near perfect seal. It will not crush and leak from the edge unless you apply excessive fore, which won't be necessary. The consistency is not like clay; it's more of a malleable rubber. 

I have compound curves in my door. It was easier to simply pound flashing into a rough shape then screw it tight using the butyl as a gasket b/w the door and flashing. I'm not concerned about rust where I am. The butyl gets pulled into the screw hole to help seal it; however, it's not going to 100%. I used this method on a smaller scale before I did the entire door with no rust issues in 3 years. But as mentioned before, you need to take your climate and road conditions into account.


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## HondAudio

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> You woukd be better off applyi.g a bead of silicone to the edge of the opening, allowing it to cure... You just made a gasket that wont smush out of the way..
> 
> Apply plexy attach and deaden over...
> 
> Sent from the other side using mind bullets...(YapaTalk)


This is my plan. The 1/8" MDF isn't 'bendy' enough for one of the holes I need to cover - but might be fine for a different one.

I also plan to use my heat gun to gently form the acrylic into the holes; I built a "push stick" to hold the acrylic in place and form to the openings while I use a heat gun with the other hand - results to come


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## tulse

HondAudio said:


> This is my plan. The 1/8" MDF isn't 'bendy' enough for one of the holes I need to cover - but might be fine for a different one.
> 
> I also plan to use my heat gun to gently form the acrylic into the holes; I built a "push stick" to hold the acrylic in place and form to the openings while I use a heat gun with the other hand - results to come


Keep us updated with the head gun molding. That sounds like an interesting idea.


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## Cooter69

I would use thin guage steel material and place over the holes, then apply the deadner.


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## HondAudio

The 1/8" acrylic cut nicely for the smallest holes in my doors. I plan to heat-form it this weekend and get it attached. the second sheet of acrylic I tried to cut for a different set of openings had some cracking issues, so I'm trying a different material instead: ~1/16" polystyrene. It's lighter than the acrylic and has the same flexibility characteristics of the cardboard templates I made, so it might 'do the trick' for the holes in question. If I try to use the acrylic again, I'll need to sandwich it between two MDF templates for routing, and I'll need to use more screws to hold it together.

I'm still finalizing the template for the largest openings in the doors, which will likely be covered by MDF sheeting for strength.


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## doeboy

are you coating the mdf with some kind of water protectant?


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## HondAudio

doeboy said:


> are you coating the mdf with some kind of water protectant?


Yes, obviously.


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## ScottyGreen

A quick tip to anyone deadening your doors. Wherever your door locking vertical rod and door handle connecting rod have to come through your deadening material take a plastic pen apart or small plastic hose (like aquarium hose) and cut a slit down it and slide it over your rod so your deadener doesn't stick to these important to move parts.

I made the mistake once of simply cutting slits/holes in my deadening material and the next day a piece had stuck to my locking rod and my door wouldn't open. I could still get in my car through another door but felt like an idiot and had to remove my panels yet again!

just my .02 while you're at it


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## Fronty2011

I used corrugated plastic like they use for "for sale" signs and silicon to seal around it, then I put wire loom over all the wires and door lock/handle cables.


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## cabro

ScottyGreen said:


> A quick tip to anyone deadening your doors. Wherever your door locking vertical rod and door handle connecting rod have to come through your deadening material take a plastic pen apart or small plastic hose (like aquarium hose) and cut a slit down it and slide it over your rod so your deadener doesn't stick to these important to move parts.
> 
> I made the mistake once of simply cutting slits/holes in my deadening material and the next day a piece had stuck to my locking rod and my door wouldn't open. I could still get in my car through another door but felt like an idiot and had to remove my panels yet again!
> 
> just my .02 while you're at it


Excellent tip!


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## cabro

cabro said:


> Grabbed a bucket of this stuff and am hoping to use it instead of modelling clay around the speakers.
> 
> http://www.hardcast.com/products/pdfs/DS321.pdf
> 
> View attachment 36464


Kind of reviving an old thread here but wanted to save you guys some time and money and let you know that this stuff sucks. The best way to describe it is it's like a really firm tofu/play doh and doesn't stick to anything at all. So disappointed.


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## nervewrecker

Well while the thread here I might as well share how I did mine. 

I cut a piece of card board to the shape, temporarily stuck it unto the door, masked off the door properly and brushed on some fiberglass resin. 
When it dried it took the undulating shape of the metal opening around the hollow and I was able to cover it then lay a few layers of glass and mat on it to make a cover. It took some test fitting and cutting to get it right. When I got it right I lined the back with fiberglass and concrete, put it in place and dampened over it. 

Will take some pics of the next door when I scrap it down this weekend.


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## quietfly

nervewrecker said:


> Well while the thread here I might as well share how I did mine.
> 
> I cut a piece of card board to the shape, temporarily stuck it unto the door, masked off the door properly and brushed on some fiberglass resin.
> When it dried it took the undulating shape of the metal opening around the hollow and I was able to cover it then lay a few layers of glass and mat on it to make a cover. It took some test fitting and cutting to get it right. When I got it right I lined the back with fiberglass and concrete, put it in place and dampened over it.
> 
> Will take some pics of the next door when I scrap it down this weekend.



i'd love to see pics/ a tutorial on that.


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## goodstuff

qI will quickly give a run down of my entire door treatment.
First I applied some c.l.d ( cascade vmax) to the outer door skin. Then I put in a deflex pad behind the speaker. Next I wrapped all the door wiring in plastic flex loom and 3M electrical tape. Then I made cardboard templates to fit the sizes of the holes in the doors. Using the templates I made sheet metal covers that fit the holes. Then I wrapped the sheet metal in a bunch of electrical tape. Then I glued pieces of mass loaded vinyl to that and siliconed them into the holes. After that was dry before I put the door card back on I covered the whole door with vmax ( made by cascade audio) to replace the moisture barrier, further deaden and block road noise. So then I built my birch baffles, sandwiched them between layers of closed cell foam, siliconed them to the door and attached them with concrete screws. I sealed all the gaps with more silicone. The last step was to glue mass loaded vinyl to the door card. I also cut the door card so that it does not touch the speaker or baffle at all and the speaker is mounted directly to the baffle and not the door card. I think that's it, lol. I wish I had added Roxul to the inside, like user Jazzi did here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/135023-2002-vw-golf-stealth-sq-build-engineering-students-perspective.html 

to take care of a few resonances that pop up from time to time. 

Hope that helps,
Let me know if you want pics of all that^.


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## Dadee

Anyone ever try using 1/8 or 1/16 inch fiberboard? I feel fiber board would be stiff/flexible enough to cover most holes. I was considering using 3m sticky tape to stick fiberboard over the holes then dynamat over the top. Does anyone know if the mat will stick well to this?


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## minbari

like wood fiberboard? that stuff soaks up water like a sponge! wouldnt recommend it.


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## Dadee

I dont believe its wood(might be) I think its some composite material.... ANYWAYS I used that in the past to fab some home made speaker mounts in the doors of my 98 Chevy years ago and it worked out perfectly and moisture didn't effect it at all. I also know for a fact there was moisture in there considering the stickers on the back of the speakers were all soaked at one point and peeled off but like I said didn't effect the fiberboard at all.


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## samual

Some serious cover the hole with metal sheets. You may try various type of metal sheets and let see the result.


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