# PS8 popping in cold weather, potential blown speakers



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I just wanted to start a feeler to see if anyone else is having this issue. The PS8 works flawlessly when it's warm. Over the past couple days when I go to work and the temperature is in the 30s it lets out these extremely loud pops mosty though the tweeters but also through every speaker but the subs. It sounds like a large rock hitting the windshield at 80mph. It's the kind of pop that blows speakers, no a subtle click (it does that too during it's episodes but I'm not worried about that). It does a series of pops for about 10-15 seconds and then it's fine again. During this time, music plays just fine. I have made no changes to the PS8 or the entire setup. Laptop is not plugged in. In the evening when I go home and temps are in the 60s-70s everything is fine. My passenger side Esotar tweeter might be toast so this could be a $1,800 problem is that's the case. PS8 is coming out, I'm not about to attempt to troubleshoot and lose more speakers. I pulled the main system fuse and I guess I'll be without a system until this gets resolved. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Wow I am really sorry to hear that your tweeters maybe be done as they are really really nice. I was about to pull the trigger on one of these and then I read that you were having some morning problems with it. Now my tweeter are nowhere near as nice as yours, yet I still don't want to lose the. Please keep us informed as to what you find and I really hope that is not the case of your tweeter being blown. Good luck....


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Did you call Arc yet?

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

Sounds like it's clipping those channels, maybe low voltage issue at startup and an over compensation in the software for levels (gain)? Not sure if that type of thing exists. Where is the PS8 mounted out of curiosity?

X2 on calling ARC!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## BoomHz (Apr 20, 2007)

Condensation.

I see it lots here in AK. Gradual circulation, but tough in some locations.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

did you see the thread by oca123 indicating the chips used in the ps8 are not automobile friendly, and rated at 0-30 degrees celsius or something like that? I don't know if thats the case for you but it is definatley something to look at.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

If I were you I'd throw a cap on the next tweeters you get and move master volume control to the RLC circuit on the amps. That way the signal level potential to the speakers will be significantly lower pretty much all of the time, and likely not damage anything if something out of the ordinary happens again. 

Most of the time your volume knob will be in the 1/4-1/2 range. And since the master volume scale is logarithmic, that means that the power being delivered by your amps will be ~15% of what it would be if you control volume from the head unit (even under a worst case DC or full scale noise dump).

You can look at the graph below as x being the volume setting and y being the wattage output. Only at the very top of the scale does the amp really start to pump out the juice.









http://www.sosmath.com/algebra/logs/log4/log003.gif

And wire up one of these to your amp remote ins and mount it on your dash. 









http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/the-box-image4.jpg


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

BoomHz said:


> Condensation.
> 
> I see it lots here in AK. Gradual circulation, but tough in some locations.


This is why I was asking where it was mounted. Should have also asked in what position.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I haven't called Arc yet, I know, I know, that's the first thing I should have done. I just incredibly busy at home and forgot to call. In fact, I have lot more free time at work, I'll call them in the next hour or so.

The noise is at the same level regardless of the HU volume. It's mounted in the trunk. Very, very low humidity over here. The point Big Red brought up seems to pertain here, I've had no issues until it hits 32-35F.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I'll give you $300 for it. Shoot me your Paypal. 

(I hope you call my bluff. )


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> I'll give you $300 for it. Shoot me your Paypal.
> 
> (I hope you call my bluff. )


You're about an hour late..... Literally. It's pretty much sold for little more than that.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Well. If he backs out....


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Well. If he backs out....


Definitely. There's always the chance arc might want to take it back and help out but it's good to know I have options.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I should mention I checked all of the normal things like power and ground it uses the ms8's old 8ga power and ground so it's overkill for this thing.


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## BoomHz (Apr 20, 2007)

Where are the amps in reference to the processor? I'm low humidty compared to you, still condensation was the culprit. It only takes minuscule amounts of moisture to cause board pops.

Big Red does bring up a very valid point, which I'm hoping is not true. ARC should know better and I would think with as much as they put into this they would have found better components.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks BigRed for point this out. Yes, the two DSP chips in the PS8 are "general market" chips and not intended for automotive use.



> BigRed
> did you see the thread by oca123 indicating the chips used in the ps8 are not automobile friendly, and rated at 0-30 degrees celsius or something like that? I don't know if thats the case for you but it is definatley something to look at.


Yeah, they're not rated for anything under 32F. Proof is here
- http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS470xx_PP9.pdf - End of 1st page
- Picture of PS8 PCB - It's on the forum somewhere. It's good enough that you can zoom in and tell that it says CQZ, not DQZ on the Cirrus chips.

I think it has to do with the internal clock.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BoomHz said:


> Where are the amps in reference to the processor? I'm low humidty compared to you, still condensation was the culprit. It only takes minuscule amounts of moisture to cause board pops.
> 
> Big Red does bring up a very valid point, which I'm hoping is not true. ARC should know better and I would think with as much as they put into this they would have found better components.


It's very possible. I remember now that I found it strange that the PS8's internals were this open to the outside. There's even an open hole, maybe for an antenna add-on for BT or something?
I guess you could throw a couple of silica gel bags in there....

EDIT: If it's a clocking issue due to temperature, I think Arc could fix it, or at least make it less likely, via a firmware update.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

Uh oh, Please keep this updated. I am very interested to see what arc has to say!


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## yeldak99 (Mar 5, 2008)

req said:


> Uh oh, Please keep this updated. I am very interested to see what arc has to say!


Damn you're fast!


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## DevilSun (Oct 25, 2012)

Yeah, they are definitely CQZ -- the commercial and not automotive grade which appears to have a wider operating temp range by a considerable amount, and barely more expensive.

cs42448-cqz (14F to 158F) -- http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS42448_F3.pdf
cs48560-cqz (32F to 158F) -- http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS485xx_F5.pdf

PCB picture reference here

Guess that means the device (or specifically chip) shouldn't be below 32F ... or else? Good thing I let my diesel warm up lol. Curious to see the outcome as well...luckily it doesn't get as cold here. Considering they have an internal temp on the device, they could most likely delay or stop unit operation as a safety fallback...one would think.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I'm mostly concerned with my 1 week old tweeters. I'm going to turn the amps way down when I get home and switch sides on the tweeters. Right now one side sounds less detailed than the other. It could just be a level difference but I doubt it. Can you partially damage a tweeter where it works and doesn't pop at high volumes but lose some of the detail??


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

DevilSun said:


> Considering they have an internal temp on the device, they could most likely delay or stop unit operation as a safety fallback...one would think.


the DSP needs to boot up for that to happen.... seems the issue is happening while the DSP is booting up, maybe its the clock, maybe it's because its not waiting for the PSU to be stable...
either way, they could just mute the outputs until the DSP is fully booted.


EDIT: for whatever it's worth, Cirrus even came out with an "Extended Automotive" grade. Also the datasheets talk about something called "Popguard" which requires the use of DC-blocking caps on the outputs. I don't remember seeing these, they could also be on the back of the PCB.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I'm mostly concerned with my 1 week old tweeters. I'm going to turn the amps way down when I get home and switch sides on the tweeters. Right now one side sounds less detailed than the other. It could just be a level difference but I doubt it. Can you partially damage a tweeter where it works and doesn't pop at high volumes but lose some of the detail??


I've always wondered about this as well.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

If this is true, then this is going to be a big problem.
I know a number of members that are looking really hard at buying one.
Awaiting what Arc told you with anticipation.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> I'm mostly concerned with my 1 week old tweeters. I'm going to turn the amps way down when I get home and switch sides on the tweeters. Right now one side sounds less detailed than the other. It could just be a level difference but I doubt it. Can you partially damage a tweeter where it works and doesn't pop at high volumes but lose some of the detail??


Most definitely, Kinda like a sub that only has part of the coil attached.
It plays but doesnt sound right.


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## xxlrg (Oct 2, 2012)

Subscribed


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> If this is true, then this is going to be a big problem.
> I know a number of members that are looking really hard at buying one.
> Awaiting what Arc told you with anticipation.
> 
> ...


As sad and as troubled as I am right now, wtf is going on with your avatar, did you lose a bet or something or have a nervous breakdown? 

I'm looking forward to what happens as well. If this is a glitch with the PS8 and not something I did, IMO they owe me a new tweeter.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> As sad and as troubled as I am right now, wtf is going on with your avatar, did you lose a bet or something or have a nervous breakdown?
> 
> I'm looking forward to what happens as well. If this is a glitch with the PS8 and not something I did, IMO they owe me a new tweeter.


Yes I lost a bet. 
24 more days to go.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Yes I lost a bet.
> 24 more days to go.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Whew. I was scared for a second.

Anyone who has dealt with this stuff before, say I trouble shoot and prove beyond a doubt that the PS8 is causing this through no fault of my own and that it took out a tweeter. Is it fair to expect them to cover the cost of a new tweeter? I would be pissed if these were $20 tweeters, but this is a set of tweeters I thought I would never replace and that's how I justified the cost to myself. I'm more than a little upset right now.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You didn't "lose some detail" in your tweeter. It's fine, I promise.

I'm wondering why the hell you'd sell something you bought, from an authorized dealer no less, for a substantial loss rather than, I dunno, return it to the dealer or call Arc for an RA number? Even if it IS bad the dealer should have NO problems letting you return it for a full refund. 

Do you just look for new ways to burn cash? Seriously. You're not making any sense.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

If it did ruin your speaker, I highly doubt they will replace it. Sad to say.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I wonder if someone local to you can test the tweeters. First thing I would do is check DC resistance. See if it's the same for both, and see if it matches published ts parameters
Also, since Dyns are supposed to all be mfg'ed within very tight tolerances, and since the pops happened before the DSP was fully booted, the signal going to them should have been the same, and they should have suffered the same amount of damage?


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

yea but you cant say that they will both react the same way to that spike.

either way - if you were me - the first thing i would have done is contacted arc immediately. they need to have anticipated people hooking top notch gear to this processor, they need to expect issues to happen. i would highly expect for them to pick up the tab on something like this, and then issue a warning to everyone who bought one, and then find a solution... because if there is not a solution that solves this problem, then they might as well start over.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

req said:


> yea but you cant say that they will both react the same way to that spike.
> 
> either way - if you were me - the first thing i would have done is contacted arc immediately. they need to have anticipated people hooking top notch gear to this processor, they need to expect issues to happen. i would highly expect for them to pick up the tab on something like this, and then issue a warning to everyone who bought one, and then find a solution... because if there is not a solution that solves this problem, then they might as well start over.


i agree with this.


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## Big_Valven (Aug 20, 2008)

BigRed said:


> did you see the thread by oca123 indicating the chips used in the ps8 are not automobile friendly, and rated at 0-30 degrees celsius or something like that?


For those too lazy to read the datasheet, the lowest spec DSP in the range Arc uses is rated at 70 degrees C. A manufacturer is NOT going to release a chip that only works up to 30 degrees C, that's just stupid.

This thread should be locked and deleted until OP has consulted Arc to a resolution. Hype and speculation like this doesn't help anyone.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

req said:


> yea but you cant say that they will both react the same way to that spike.
> 
> either way - if you were me - the first thing i would have done is contacted arc immediately. they need to have anticipated people hooking top notch gear to this processor, they need to expect issues to happen. i would highly expect for them to pick up the tab on something like this, and then issue a warning to everyone who bought one, and then find a solution... because if there is not a solution that solves this problem, then they might as well start over.


Agreed. I contacted arc the day after it happened and left a message. Usually work is not that hectic but we have the company owners in town this week and things have been very busy so it's hard to get the time to make a non work related call except at lunch but that's been taken up on other personal business plus I flat out forgot until this afternoon. I just got a house and am in the process of moving, an iPhone 5 that took an hour to get working right at Verizon, had to fix 3 broke motor mounts and a torn power steering hose on one of the cars or pay the dealer $1,900 so that my GF can make it to work which I wasn't going to do, and an unexpected but required dinner with the owners that has completely overwhelmed me over the past few days. Plus I was out shopping all day Sunday buying an engagement ring so things have been pretty hectic for me. While I'm extremely upset about this, audio been put on the back burner. Starting tomorrow things should calm down a bit and I'll be able to focus more attention on this stuff. Believe me, I'm very upset and I'm going to go through the right avenues but it's going to be slightly late. I've been completely scatterbrained and half asleep since Sunday.

Going to check resistance now and I'll report back in a few. If both are the same, I'm going to power it up with the amps turned way down and swap sides to see if it's a difference in tuning. The Esotars are very sharp and crisp. One side still is, one side not so much but I have very little listening time since this stuff happened. 

Thanks to everyone for the help so far.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> You didn't "lose some detail" in your tweeter. It's fine, I promise.
> 
> I'm wondering why the hell you'd sell something you bought, from an authorized dealer no less, for a substantial loss rather than, I dunno, return it to the dealer or call Arc for an RA number? Even if it IS bad the dealer should have NO problems letting you return it for a full refund.
> 
> Do you just look for new ways to burn cash? Seriously. You're not making any sense.


If you heard what these things are doing you would probably be afraid of ever using this thing again. I didn't know speakers were capable of making that kind of noise at that SPL. I'm going to inspect the 430 midranges as well, I wouldn't be surprised to see a deformed cone. I'll get my money back, that's already taken care of off the board.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Would it be easier to swap them side to side to see if the problem follows the tweeter or stays on that side? That would let you know that it's the tweeter or something else...provided the dcr is reasonably the same.

Can swap the speaker wires at the amp or rcas at the processor, or physically swap the speakers.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I'd rock it. I'm still waiting for your Paypal. Lol. 

How was it taken care of off the board? Someone refunding you?

I do agree with Paul. As much as I'd like to buy yours because I have a gut feeling its not a problem with the unit or if it is can be resolved by contacting Arc, I would rather see you approach this in a way that allows you to find the answer. I can only imagine what would happen should you get a new DSP and run in to similar issues ...

All the speculation here isn't really conducive to helping the community. Until you know exactly why the cause is, the only thing that is going to happen is people are going to jump on the bandwagon and bash the mfg. Look a few years back. I ran in to this with the bit1. I handled it all wrong. Of course, I did find a legitimate issue. I just wish I had contacted them first, gotten the answer, and then let others know what they can do should they have the same issue. this way if it was my fault I wouldn't have sent people on a witchunt for no reason.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Swapped sides, the dull tweeter sounded fine on the other side and the good tweeter sounded dull on the other side. Both ohmed out at 5.5ohm. Going to pull up the spec sheet but I would say that's got to be close and they're just about identical in comparison so I would say I'm out of the woods. Amps are turned down. No pops this time and it's 58 degrees ambient, probably warmer in the trunk where the PS8 is. I had plans to move it to the cabin when time permits.

Edit: Spec is 5.2 ohm, would most agree they're close enough to manufacturers spec?

Just read the witch hunt post. It's up to the readers how they want to interpret the information. I've only stated what has happened, it's a message board after all. I haven't bashed the PS8. The worst thing I've said is that I'm disappointed as anyone would be when they have their entire system popping and clicking anytime the weather gets down in the 30s. I have a pop over all speakers but the subs which I think most would agree eliminates the amps. Nothing has changed in regards to the HU and line driver. I'll pull the fuse on the PS8 and start it up in the morning, listen for pops, wait a minute so if it's the HU or line driver it can finish doing what it's doing and pop the fuse in. The signal from the HU is 2 channel as is the line driver so I'm not aware of how a problem in either could cause pops in only the front stage but still... If it pops I'm pretty sure its the PS8. I unplugged the USB as well. I wasn't aware that I had to find a solution before posting. I posted a problem, put in a call to Arc and to Jerry (actually Jerry called me) to help out in case one of the tweeters are bad and I'm sure I'll have an update from Arc tomorrow as well as my own little experiment in the morning. If this thing is causing these kinds of pops, people need to know. I just checked my midranges and I halfway expected to see a cone inside out lol. On the flip side, I think most are smart enough to realize that the cause is not pinpointed yet but the PS8 certainly looks guilty and that I'm only one case of this happening so far. If I went too far with an opinion, feel free to delete whatever it is that offends people so badly. I'm fully aware that people think it's something I did by the number of PMs I've received offering full retail price for it which doesn't offend me at all, it's nice to know I have options. So far I've seen a couple people that are concerned, waiting for a resolution and some that are offended for even suggesting Arc could be at fault but no where have I seen anyone bash the product or say they're not going to buy one based on the information I've presented. The other concern I posted early on was the PS8 hitting over 160 degrees on a 70 degree day. The last time I tuned it, ambient was in the 40s and it was still in the 160 degree range. I popped the trunk and it was cool inside. Maybe the 160 to 30 degree swing is causing condensation inside, I don't know but I should not have to worry about that. If it is a problem that can be resolved with Arc, that's great but it doesn't excuse what it's doing unless they want to pay for damaged equipment. I still can't believe these speakers survived this.

Honestly, delete the whole thread or change the title if it's that bad. I probably won't have a full resolution for a while. I have the tweeters sitting here at the computer desk and they seem to be fine so I'm a little more at ease for now. Maybe I'll try them out in the HT until I get a resolution.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Hopefully this gets resolved... Looking forward to seeing how arc handles this.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Erin-I would lock this thread. Give Buick time to contact ARC, his dealer ect. gets a reply and all trouble shooting is done.

Then once all that is complete he can contact you to open back up and add the information and then maybe a productive conversation can be had.

Right now it is just a bunch of guessing and will then start into full on bashing.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

The OP has a good handle on it with his troubleshooting and attempts to reach Arc. 
Plus there's three mods subscribed to this thread who won't let it get out of hand.
We should leave the "door" open in case Buick needs help as he progresses through this issue.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> The OP has a good handle on it with his troubleshooting and attempts to reach Arc.
> Plus there's three mods subscribed to this thread who won't let it get out of hand.
> We should leave the "door" open in case Buick needs help as he progresses through this issue.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This thread was started first and foremost for help. Second to see if others have had this issue. It was never intended to bash anyone. It's an exchange of information. If Arc gets bashed, it won't be coming from me and I can't control others. I really hope this board has not gotten this PC to where we can't go through a troubleshooting process for fear of offending anyone. If that's the case, lets delete the MS8 bashing thread, the W7 thread, half of the Dynaudio threads, etc. 

Now that I know my speakers are ok, I'm not that pissed though I am annoyed. I'm sure Arc will respond and everything will be fine. They have not had a chance to reply so I'm obviously not mad at them as they have done nothing wrong but locking a thread as suggested by some until I get a call back is absolutely retarded. I have to wonder about affiliations.

I've done everything that can be expected albeit a day late due to personal issues ( a proposal comes waaaaaaaaaaaay before car audio). If this thread is open I'll post what happens in the morning and what arc says. If it's closed, don't expect an update. Everyone can speculate indefinitely what the outcome is for all I care.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

We don't know what is causing the issue, that's true. However it is NOT speculation that the two DSP chips that are on the PS8 are not intended for automotive use, when the automotive kind are available and could have been used by Arc.
There is some confusion between degrees Celcius and Farenheit, though. To set the record straight, the CS470xx series DSPs for example, in their commercial versions, are rated between 0C and 70C, which is 32F to 158F.
Also, that does not mean that if the temperature goes from 32F to 31F, the chip will stop working. It will just be operating outside of the range for which it has been tested, and Cirrus just does not guarantee its performance at this point.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I've done everything that can be expected albeit a day late due to personal issues ( a proposal comes waaaaaaaaaaaay before car audio).


a proposal is the end of car audio, actually.

Congratulations  soon you'll be joining this club I'm a member of... a club where members wait until their wives are asleep to slowly sneak out of bed, and then spend hours in their garage until the wee hours of the morning, cutting baffle boards with a dremel at the slowest speed, hoping not to get caught.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> If you heard what these things are doing you would probably be afraid of ever using this thing again. I didn't know speakers were capable of making that kind of noise at that SPL. I'm going to inspect the 430 midranges as well, I wouldn't be surprised to see a deformed cone. I'll get my money back, that's already taken care of off the board.


You think a pop deformed a poly cone? Seriously? 

How will you get your money back if you sold it? I hope you told the new owner about the issues you suspect it has.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> We don't know what is causing the issue, that's true. However it is NOT speculation that the two DSP chips that are on the PS8 are not intended for automotive use, when the automotive kind are available and could have been used by Arc.
> There is some confusion between degrees Celcius and Farenheit, though. To set the record straight, the CS470xx series DSPs for example, in their commercial versions, are rated between 0C and 70C, which is 32F to 158F.
> Also, that does not mean that if the temperature goes from 32F to 31F, the chip will stop working. It will just be operating outside of the range for which it has been tested, and Cirrus just does not guarantee its performance at this point.


That's great lol. Mine has already exceeded both the high and low end.:surprised: Maybe it's been tested on both extremes and while the chips aren't specifically rated for the typical automotive temps Arc knows they will work ok???

Any chance changing the turn on delay to something significantly longer could help my situation? If you have a free moment over the next week or so, I'll be glad to let you hear it if it's not resolved by then. Maybe with your background something will be obvious to you. Then again, the tricky part would be replicating the problem since it only happens when temps are in the 30s. That might be a tough one lol.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I still suggest you call Arc _during business hours_ and speak to Fred or Brad. They will get you farther faster than ANYONE on this forum and will also keep you from flipping your gourd with all the speculation.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Agreed. Fred was there today. I called to ask them a specific question regarding the mixer section. And that was while this thread was getting a lot of replies.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Agreed. Fred was there today. I called to ask them a specific question regarding the mixer section. And that was while this thread was getting a lot of replies.


We'll see what he has to say tomorrow.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> a proposal is the end of car audio, actually.
> 
> Congratulations  soon you'll be joining this club I'm a member of... a club where members wait until their wives are asleep to slowly sneak out of bed, and then spend hours in their garage until the wee hours of the morning, cutting baffle boards with a dremel at the slowest speed, hoping not to get caught.


Lol. I can picture that perfectly. I've gotten lucky so far. She knows audio is cheaper and safer than racing and I stopped racing quite a while ago so I haven't gotten in too much trouble yet. She complained about the recent purchase of my "$150" Dyn tweeters for a second but nothing a little ice cream and a new purse couldn't make her forget about. Just got a house, I should have put the distance of the garage from the bedroom as a criteria in my search. :laugh:


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

This seems an appropriate time to mention the value of a passive crossover inline with the tweeter to help protect it in the future. Choosing to run a fully active setup unprotected is a game of Russian roulette. By adding passive protection to the tweeter in the form of a crossover will help prevent out-of-band signals from damaging those beautiful little jewels we so very much enjoy. To determine the crossover frequency a certain amount of capacitance will give you, use the formula: 
0.16/(C x Load Impedance) = Frequency of the crossover

For a 4 ohm load, a 33uF capacitor would provide you a highpass crossover of ~1200 Hz. This should be well below the crossover frequency you use actively but will go a long way towards protecting the tweeter if this sort of thing happens - whatever the root cause. It would be installed in series on the + signal between the amplifier and the tweeter (cut the + lead and solder the capacitor between the two cut ends for reference...).

This is a informational response for anyone reading this thread and is good practice in all cases. It is not directed at anyone in particular and is directed at everyone in general. Protect your investment!

-T


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

^^^^great point


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Agreed. I ran caps inline with my tweeters. It saved them a few times, most of these times it was from myself, running full range sweeps at 0db because my damn touchscreen was too small.

My bedroom is on the opposite side and one story above my garage. It was one of the criteria when I bought the house. Not because of car audio specifically, but because I am always up until 5am doing something that makes noise.

So, you bought the house, then got the ring, and now you're going to propose? What's next, you guys are going to date, then you're going to meet?


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Big_Valven said:


> For those too lazy to read the datasheet, the lowest spec DSP in the range Arc uses is rated at 70 degrees C. A manufacturer is NOT going to release a chip that only works up to 30 degrees C, that's just stupid.
> 
> This thread should be locked and deleted until OP has consulted Arc to a resolution. Hype and speculation like this doesn't help anyone.


the point is it was mentioned that the chip has limited temp ranges. turns out its 0-70 degrees C which equates on the lower end to 32F. Oddly enough, that is around the temp that Buick was at when he had his problems, specifically in cold weather.

I'm trying to help, but I do find it odd that some people want to lock a thread because of educated guesses. If we are going to do that, maybe the MS8 thread and many others should be locked as well. 

I have been lucky enough to play with one of the first units available. It is easy to use and well thought out in its GUI as well as sounding excellent in analog inputs. This of course was all done in warm weather


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Sub'd


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It isn't getting locked by me.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Hopefully this is a fluke. It's going to suck for the northern states. LOL.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

40 degrees this morning, no pop. Going to call arc in an hour. It's going to be real embarrassing if it turns out to be something I did.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

highly said:


> This seems an appropriate time to mention the value of a passive crossover inline with the tweeter to help protect it in the future. Choosing to run a fully active setup unprotected is a game of Russian roulette. By adding passive protection to the tweeter in the form of a crossover will help prevent out-of-band signals from damaging those beautiful little jewels we so very much enjoy. To determine the crossover frequency a certain amount of capacitance will give you, use the formula:
> 0.16/(C x Load Impedance) = Frequency of the crossover
> 
> For a 4 ohm load, a 33uF capacitor would provide you a highpass crossover of ~1200 Hz. This should be well below the crossover frequency you use actively but will go a long way towards protecting the tweeter if this sort of thing happens - whatever the root cause. It would be installed in series on the + signal between the amplifier and the tweeter (cut the + lead and solder the capacitor between the two cut ends for reference...).
> ...


 
^^^^^This. Couldn't have written it better a thousand times myelf.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

BowDown said:


> Hopefully this is a fluke. It's going to suck for the northern states. LOL.


Ask TOM to see if his is doing the same. 39 in [email protected] 6am on my H800.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

AVIDEDTR said:


> Ask TOM to see if his is doing the same. 39 in [email protected] 6am on my H800.


Good call. Has my curiosity.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Just txt Tom. He was like "how did you know?". Said he has noticed it a couple times in the cold but power cycling the unit quick seemed to stop it.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

highly said:


> This seems an appropriate time to mention the value of a passive crossover inline with the tweeter to help protect it in the future. Choosing to run a fully active setup unprotected is a game of Russian roulette. By adding passive protection to the tweeter in the form of a crossover will help prevent out-of-band signals from damaging those beautiful little jewels we so very much enjoy. To determine the crossover frequency a certain amount of capacitance will give you, use the formula:
> 0.16/(C x Load Impedance) = Frequency of the crossover
> 
> For a 4 ohm load, a 33uF capacitor would provide you a highpass crossover of ~1200 Hz. This should be well below the crossover frequency you use actively but will go a long way towards protecting the tweeter if this sort of thing happens - whatever the root cause. It would be installed in series on the + signal between the amplifier and the tweeter (cut the + lead and solder the capacitor between the two cut ends for reference...).
> ...



Very true, but it's worth pointing out here that he said he had his amp's HPF engaged. If the pop is coming from the processor, this is functionally equivalent to adding a capacitor in the manner you described. Of course, this doesn't protect the tweeter if the amp ****s the bed or if it produces a pop. But for this case, he was protected.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

I would imagine having the HPF on the amp is the only thing that saved the tweeters.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Any word from arc?


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear about this problem!

But congratulations on getting engaged!


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

BowDown said:


> I would imagine having the HPF on the amp is the only thing that saved the tweeters.


Significant possibility. I pondered including that (using the amp's HP) as an alternative but wanted to keep the post concise (and I was just leaving work at midnight!). Either one is an excellent plan, and the amp's HP has less possibility of an effect on overall sound. Either one... or both... should be considered. I just wanted to see something of the sort included in this thread as another opportunity for the unwary that there is protection available. Choosing not to use it may not be a life decision, but can certainly become a life lesson!

-T


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Todd, now you are going to have threads on which is the best sounding caps to use...

But a cap would be better protection for the speakers. If the amp went bad, then there is nothing left to protect the tweeters. The cap would help the tweeters from anything connected to them.


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Todd, now you are going to have threads on which is the best sounding caps to use....


That's easy. The one you actually install that protects the driver sounds better than the one you didn't install that let the tweeter's magic smoke out. 



thehatedguy said:


> But a cap would be better protection for the speakers. If the amp went bad, then there is nothing left to protect the tweeters. The cap would help the tweeters from anything connected to them.


:thumbsup:


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

highly said:


> That's easy. The one you actually install that protects the driver sounds better than the one you didn't install that let the tweeter's magic smoke out.
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbsup:


better get a list of all the gold-plated mil-spec caps i have and start sellin em retail...


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

oca123 said:


> better get a list of all the gold-plated mil-spec caps i have and start sellin em retail...


I'm sure Ant will appreciate the new Vendor's subscription


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Just got off the phone with Fred. Very nice guy, I'm sending the unit back for what sounds like a torture test. Fwiw these things have been tested to well below freezing and well above the 160 degrees that mine runs at. It probably doesn't matter but I don't want to post the actual numbers just in case. Everything should be taken care of shortly. I'll probably throw the MS8 in there if I get the time just out of curiosity. I would feel better about sending it back knowing there are no pops with a different processor. Anyway, very nice people.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeah Fred is a good guy...DK is a great guy as well.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Todd be ready for the film vs. electrolytic cap debates...and then battery biasing cap debate- that one might get into which batteries are the best sounding to do the biasing.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

They have great CS and stand by their product. Brad Ott is nice too.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

If I were Arc I'd just throw a Onesie in the box.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Brad is exceptional when it comes to tech support... He's one of the biggest reasons I run the product... (Besides the fact that most of the amps they offer are bullet proof )


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> Todd be ready for the film vs. electrolytic cap debates...and then battery biasing cap debate- that one might get into which batteries are the best sounding to do the biasing.


uuuuuh
how about the use of dehumidifiers in competition vehicles?


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

oca123 said:


> uuuuuh
> how about the use of dehumidifiers in competition vehicles?


Out of ignorant curiosity... if relative humidity is such a problem here how is it that the interwebz works on tablets built using consumer grade devices in the tropical rainforests of Puerto Rico? Or that cell phones appear to operate without consequence in New England year after year? What exactly seems to be the argument here? I'm clearly confused.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm sure he was bring sarcastic. lol


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

highly said:


> Out of ignorant curiosity... if relative humidity is such a problem here how is it that the interwebz works on tablets built using consumer grade devices in the tropical rainforests of Puerto Rico? Or that cell phones appear to operate without consequence in New England year after year? What exactly seems to be the argument here? I'm clearly confused.


i was joking.... i know someone who always says that he lost iasca finals (almost 20 years ago) because the humidity was different from where he had tuned his car



edit: i'll say, i'd love to see both your avatars get humid together!


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

oca123 said:


> i was joking.... i know someone who always says that he lost iasca finals (almost 20 years ago) because the humidity was different from where he had tuned his car!


I must have missed the smiley  Sorry, the many mentions you have made wrt the commercial grade nature of the related parts allowed the last statement to be mistaken for a trend. You can see how that might happen. Just curious to better understand your viewpoint were that the case.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

highly said:


> I must have missed the smiley  Sorry, the many mentions you have made wrt the commercial grade nature of the related parts allowed the last statement to be mistaken for a trend. You can see how that might happen. Just curious to better understand your viewpoint were that the case.


this got blown out of proportion. I made a post in the 3sixty.3 forum where I posted pictures of the PCB, because no one else had. Since both the PS8 and the 3sixty.3 use the Cirrus DSPs, I posted a picture of the PS8 PCB side by side.
That's when I noticed that the 3sixty.3 used automotive chips, and the PS8 commercial/home chips. I made a note of that and explained what the difference between automotive and commercial was, in regards to their temperature ratings. I also alluded to why Arc might have gone with non-automotive versions, but I took that comment out, because the truth is, I can only guess why they made that choice at the time. (as of today, there is an 18 week factory lead time on the automotive kind, and no traceable US stock)

A day or so later, BuickGN started this thread, and BigRed mentioned my post about the temperature ratings, and here we are.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

One thing I learned from Arc today is my 12' USB cable is not exactly ideal lol. I'll be installing it in the cabin with a 4' cord when I get it back. Not going to have time to put the MS8 back in today. I never got around to removing the display so it would be as easy as making the connections, no wires to run, probably a 15 minute job to have it up and running.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Why so about the usb cable?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Why so about the usb cable?


Voltage drop I believe. I guess you can get amplifiers for the longer cables. I didn't realize they have to license a USB connection for use with their product or any product for that matter. I forget what the maximum recommended cable was but 12' was definitely on the long side and apparently the cable quality/construction matters. I wish I could remember the conversation better. He went into a lot of detail and I learned some new stuff. He seemed genuinely interested/curious in getting to the bottom of it if a problem actually exists.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Didnt the issue happen without the USB cable connected? How comes the Alpine H800 comes with a long (very long) cable?
IIRC you dont have to license USB unless you want to use their logo, but there is something about device drivers and manufacturer IDs. There is also USB compliance testing, but 5 meters is the cable length in the spec, which is 16 feet.
I understand voltage drop, out of sync issues, blah blah blah, but I fail to understand how that's a problem with the PS8. If you were trying to stream 8 channels of PCM audio at 192khz over a USB run, then you might have some issues. As far as I can tell, the protocol used is RS232 (think of the old school 8 pin serial ports) and the driver creates a virtual serial port (COM1) and does the translation. That's similar to how the BitOne works IIRC. There is very little data traveling between the computer and the PS8.

*EDIT* actually, I might be wrong, the USB driver that comes with the PS8 is huge, easily the biggest file in the archive. I'll have to take a look at it later. That said, the USB has nothing to do with your problem.
*EDIT 2* nope, I was right, it's a usb to serial driver, *this one specifically.* http://www.cmx.com/cmx_usb_device.htm
nothing wrong with that at all, by the way. if anything, you should NOT have a problem using a long USB cable.

My point is, I fail to understand how the length of your USB cable:
1) Has anything to do with the issue
2) Is even a problem, since 12 feet should be ok. Do make sure that the USB logo is somewhere on that cable. Lower quality cables might not be compliant.

I will say this... the USB cable that came with my 3sixty.3 didn't even work AT ALL. Turns out, it's wired wrong. So, it could be worse


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I call complete total bs on the usb cable stuff.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I guess you can get amplifiers for the longer cables.


Yeah, but they don't fix the timing issues that come with using longer cables.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Guys... He didn't say the USB cable caused the issue. Calm down.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Every time I called Arc, I got a very helpful lecture from someone over there. Whether the lecture was relevant to the issue I was calling about, well, that's another story.
They are nice over there.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Sorry... To clarify, the USB is not the issue. It was a logical question of course but was dismissed quickly once I told him that the problem was there with it unplugged. So many times you get guys at the top of the food chain that won't share any information. While the USB was not my problem, we went on to talk USBs and other stuff. I was all ears, soaking up as much information as I could. It was very interesting learning about some of the R&D of this product first hand, along with several other things. He was in no way trying to say the USB was to blame and keep in mind electronics aren't my strong point and I'm reciting a conversation by memory so the context might get lost and details forgotten. 

Had it blown a speaker I might be upset but right now it's going to cost me a couple days without a radio which is fine. My ears could use a rest. While I believe it's a problem with the PS8, nothing has been proven yet. Thanks to everyone who has replied. 

I haven't pulled it out of the car yet and won't ship it until sometime tomorrow so it could easily be next week before we know anything.


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## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

oca123 said:


> soon you'll be joining this club I'm a member of... a club where members wait until their wives are asleep to slowly sneak out of bed, and then spend hours in their garage until the wee hours of the morning, cutting baffle boards with a dremel at the slowest speed, hoping not to get caught.


awesome!!!! I'm in this club too


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

The USB cable quality- length only becomes an issue during updates. 6' is the max recommended length.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

turbo5upra said:


> The USB cable quality- length only becomes an issue during updates. 6' is the max recommended length.


While 6ft is the certified length, I have no troubles running my V-Link soundcard off a 15ft length cable. It's just that 6ft with normal design criteria is the limit to their test tolerances.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Glad u finally called and spoke to Fred about this. If there is anything wrong with the unit arc will certainly figure it out and take care of it. That's a fact jack !!


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Latest Buick?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Latest Buick?
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


I will have an update in the morning if it pops or not. It likely ends with me being a dumbass.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

BuickGN said:


> I will have an update in the morning if it pops or not. It likely ends with me being a dumbass.


No pops this morning. It was in the mid 40s but this thing has popped as high as 56 degrees. One more cold morning before I throw myself under the bus.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Didi Arc not fix it?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

what if it's not the processor?


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

"Throw yourself under the bus" meaning it was user error?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I have some documents I need you to sign before you throw yourself under the bus. They will ensure that your fiancee gets a little more than what you told her each one of the car audio items you purchased cost you.
That works out to about $110 for the PS8, $115 for the dynaudio tweets, etc.
instead of $100, $103, etc. I'm generous you see!


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

Buick-you have some rough times with procesors!

WRT the chips I have always been under the impression ALL computers/chips work better at lower temperatures (lower internal resistance) and 0-70degC is pretty reasonable range for anything a human is going to be using...

What's you battery voltage at when you get in on a cold morning? What else do you have on that may further drain the battery on your cold starts? Heated windows/seats/mirrors? Air con? Demister?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

The Baron Groog said:


> Buick-you have some rough times with procesors!
> 
> WRT the chips I have always been under the impression ALL computers/chips work better at lower temperatures (lower internal resistance) and 0-70degC is pretty reasonable range for anything a human is going to be using...
> 
> What's you battery voltage at when you get in on a cold morning? What else do you have on that may further drain the battery on your cold starts? Heated windows/seats/mirrors? Air con? Demister?


The chips rated for automotive vs home use are the same chips. In a nutshell, they are simply tested and binned differently at the end of the production line.
Reading this thread again, I feel I should point out that Arc did NOT use the home chips in an attempt to save money. The Cirrus DSP home chips are ~5 bucks. The automotive version is a little more, but we're talking USD2.00 at the most. The problem is that the automotive chips have longer lead times and probably were not in stock at the time of mfg.

There are problems with lower temperatures with clocking, etc. and in fact, the automotive-rated chips are rated to run at a slower clock speed than the home chips.

I saw some stuff related to overclocking in the PS8, It's possible they designed it around the automotive chip with plans to overclock it and instead just went for the home version.

Regardless, the failure rate due to the use of home chips should be very low and not a concern. These just don't automagically stop working below 0 degrees. The chips that ended up in the "home" bin vs "automotive" are the ones that didn't work around where the automotive rating starts.... that's like -20C to -40C or something.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

It's leaning heavily toward user error. Just one more cold morning with no pops and I'll be more comfortable posting something that will follow me for a long time around here.

The internal temps have already dropped from close to 170F to 104F. I'll make the call to ARC first and then post in here. To clarify I did not have time to pull it out till Friday so it has not been shipped to ARC.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

so it was getting too hot?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

My question is, "Why is no one from Arc on this board helping you guys?"

I can't count the number of hours I spend here, which ought to be worth something.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

oca123 said:


> so it was getting too hot?


Doesn't seem logical if it's happening when the weather is cold?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah, but he said "The internal temps have already dropped from close to 170F to 104F. I'll make the call to ARC first and then post in here. To clarify I did not have time to pull it out till Friday so it has not been shipped to ARC. "

As to what Andy said... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1726195-post67.html


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> My question is, "Why is no one from Arc on this board helping you guys?"
> 
> I can't count the number of hours I spend here, which ought to be worth something.


I think I speak for a lot of people around here when I say that your help and guidance is very, very much appreciated. I know some of my future builds will include JBL products due to your presence here alone. I've always been worried you're going to stop posting with some of the MS8 bashing threads and I hope that never happens because you're one of the few people whose words I take as gospel, without question. What you did for me with the mics was above and beyond what any other manufacturer has done or probably ever will do.

In this particular case with the PS8, I'm 98% sure I caused the issue. Just waiting on one more cold morning to prove it.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

So you're waiting until one more cold morning to be sure, but you also said the internal temperature was 170F and now has dropped to 104F.....
So what is it? Was it mounted to an A/C grill or something?

The commercial chips are rated up to 175F... the automotive ones are rated to 185F.... ok ok just teasin

EDIT: thanks for the PM. And no worries... if I were you I'd be more worried about planning for a baby, etc. since it looks like the engagement is on track


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

interisting. i am very curious as to what you are going to post sir


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> It's leaning heavily toward user error. Just one more cold morning with no pops and I'll be more comfortable posting something that will follow me for a long time around here.
> 
> The internal temps have already dropped from close to 170F to 104F. I'll make the call to ARC first and then post in here. To clarify I did not have time to pull it out till Friday so it has not been shipped to ARC.


It should be cold enough by Thursday and definitely through the weekend with this cold front coming in to make a determination.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> My question is, "Why is no one from Arc on this board helping you guys?"
> 
> I can't count the number of hours I spend here, which ought to be worth something.


Yeah I thought that was odd.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Mostly because every time Fred DOES come on here, to help or not, some of the members get on the "Arc isn't a manufacturer" train and start talking all kinds of ****. I don't blame him. I wouldn't come here either.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Mostly because every time Fred DOES come on here, to help or not, some of the members get on the "Arc isn't a manufacturer" train and start talking all kinds of ****. I don't blame him. I wouldn't come here either.


That's one way to look at it.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Mostly because every time Fred DOES come on here, to help or not, some of the members get on the "Arc isn't a manufacturer" train and start talking all kinds of ****. I don't blame him. I wouldn't come here either.


I don't blame him but it also gives a better appreciation of Andy, he's taken a ton of abuse and keeps coming back with patience I could only dream of having.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

falstaff said:


> That's one way to look at it.


And your way would be? Whether you agree that Arc is a manufacturer or not, ****ting on the people that come here to help is a sure fire way to get them NOT to help. People have begun ****tin on Scott Buwalda lately and if you've noticed his presence has gone down a lot too. 

Plus, and this is just me, why is it more important for Arc to have a presence here than expect a consumer to, I dunno, actually call the company and ask the question they need answered instead of HOPING they'll see a random thread on a forum? That's just retarded. 



BuickGN said:


> I don't blame him but it also gives a better appreciation of Andy, he's taken a ton of abuse and keeps coming back with patience I could only dream of having.


I don't think I've seen him take any abuse. I've seen him answer the same question and explain himself more times than I can count, but nothing liek what Fred, Scott, and a few others have seen.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I think I speak for a lot of people around here when I say that your help and guidance is very, very much appreciated. I know some of my future builds will include JBL products due to your presence here alone. I've always been worried you're going to stop posting with some of the MS8 bashing threads and I hope that never happens because you're one of the few people whose words I take as gospel, without question. What you did for me with the mics was above and beyond what any other manufacturer has done or probably ever will do.
> 
> *In this particular case with the PS8, I'm 98% sure I caused the issue. Just waiting on one more cold morning to prove it*.


One more thing Buick.
I just want to mention that your attempt at getting to the truth is what's important here and far outways any mistake on your part.
Looking forward to hearing what you found. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> And your way would be? Whether you agree that Arc is a manufacturer or not, ****ting on the people that come here to help is a sure fire way to get them NOT to help. People have begun ****tin on Scott Buwalda lately and if you've noticed his presence has gone down a lot too.


 I assume you mean my way of looking at the situation. In that case I would look at it as simple as this. Its good enough to come on a site when convient to build up and bolster a product but when the product has issues that pop up and are made known on the same forum all of a sudden nothing..... just makes me wonder. 



quality_sound said:


> Plus, and this is just me, why is it more important for Arc to have a presence here than expect a consumer to, I dunno, actually call the company and ask the question they need answered instead of HOPING they'll see a random thread on a forum? That's just retarded.


 See above. 

By the way where is the PS8 instruction manual? Oh thats right you suggest we should call ARC with every question. Get real man


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I don't think I've seen him take any abuse. I've seen him answer the same question and explain himself more times than I can count, but nothing liek what Fred, Scott, and a few others have seen.


Have you read the MS8 threads?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

falstaff said:


> I assume you mean my way of looking at the situation. In that case I would look at it as simple as this. Its good enough to come on a site when convient to build up and bolster a product but when the product has issues that pop up and are made known on the same forum all of a sudden nothing..... just makes me wonder.


It's called advertising. Every rep here does it. I know shortly Fred was out of the country when Buick's issues started. Kinda hard to fault a guy for not checking in. And as always, he could have called Arc. 



> By the way where is the PS8 instruction manual? Oh thats right you suggest we should call ARC with every question. Get real man


Who said to call for EVERY question? Stop being a douchebag just to try and make a point. Yes, Arc is behind on the manual. It SHOULD have been ready at the shipping date. None of that is related to Buick's problem.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

They shipped the unit without an instruction manual?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Yarp. HUUUUUUUGE **** up on their part.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> It's called advertising. Every rep here does it. I know shortly Fred was out of the country when Buick's issues started. Kinda hard to fault a guy for not checking in. And as always, he could have called Arc.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said to call for EVERY question? Stop being a douchebag just to try and make a point. Yes, Arc is behind on the manual. It SHOULD have been ready at the shipping date. None of that is related to Buick's problem.


I did call ARC and you don't know what the problem is so you can't make that conclusion.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

So what was the problem? Swapped the + and - feed? Really... There's not a whole lot to the physical dsp install. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

I don't know, Andy has been real good at avoiding the jet noise problem and still comment on everything else


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

personally, if I were a mfg and saw half the retarded **** people said and the lengths they went through to post a problem publicly and avoid contacting me so I could help fix it and possibly alert others if there's a legitimate problem... I wouldn't want to post on the forum, either. Just sayin'.

I don't know how Andy does it. Maybe he gets paid by post from his company's marketing department. That, or the dude is a masochist. No offense, Andy.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I did call ARC and you don't know what the problem is so you can't make that conclusion.


That what? He was out of the country when your issue started? It's not a conclusion, it's fact. Does ANYONE know what the problem is? You haven't even sent it to Arc yet. They could troubleshoot it over the internet but you haven't done that either.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BigRed said:


> I don't know, Andy has been real good at avoiding the jet noise problem and still comment on everything else


I thought when that started he simply said "unplug the mic, dumbass" or something to that effect. lol :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> personally, if I were a mfg and saw half the retarded **** people said and the lengths they went through to post a problem publicly and avoid contacting me so I could help fix it and possibly alert others if there's a legitimate problem... I wouldn't want to post on the forum, either. Just sayin'.
> 
> I don't know how Andy does it. Maybe he gets paid by post from his company's marketing department. That, or the dude is a masochist. No offense, Andy.


LOL, I would quit if I were given the task to deal with diyma members. Mark Brooks is another example, though not as extreme because he sells directly on here and benefits financially directly... but the dude will take calls 24/7, he answers PMs at all hours of the day and night, and I had a conversation w/ him when it was 4am where he is. I've seen him get bashed in various threads. Of course, he doesn't have Andy's patience, but still...
I know I'm thankful.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I think Mark is a little different situation since DIYMA is almost his entire customer base. I know what you mean though. It's nice to have that available but I could never bring myself to call a manufacturer at 4AM, even if it was a personal friend.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Mark's an up late kinda dude. His neighbor has a horse. And apparently his other neighbor wants to get jiggy with him. So.. He stays busy.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

This is going downhill. I like it.
anyway, Buick was kind enough to PM me what happened. It's probably user error.... it happens. I think he said he will post what happened tomorrow.

So, it's not the horse that wants to get jiggy with Mark?


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> I think Mark is a little different situation since DIYMA is almost his entire customer base. I know what you mean though. It's nice to have that available but I could never bring myself to call a manufacturer at 4AM, even if it was a personal friend.


booty call?


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I thought when that started he simply said "unplug the mic, dumbass" or something to that effect. lol :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Oh yeah , it was the mic....NOT!! Lmao


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> That what? He was out of the country when your issue started? It's not a conclusion, it's fact. Does ANYONE know what the problem is? You haven't even sent it to Arc yet. They could troubleshoot it over the internet but you haven't done that either.


It's not hard to understand. I had a problem. I called Arc. They said to send it in. I found the problem before I had a chance to send it in. Im waiting one more cold morning free of pops to call it good. As i said at least 3 times if what I did fixed it, the problem is my fault, something i screwed up. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. If I weren't concerned about Arc's reputation I would just let this thread die with all of the **** talkers. If you take the time to read instead of looking for any excuse to talk **** I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself. So sit back and shut up or you might never know the outcome.


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Mostly because every time Fred DOES come on here, to help or not, some of the members get on the "Arc isn't a manufacturer" train and start talking all kinds of ****. I don't blame him. I wouldn't come here either.


Exactly!! He isn't the only company rep that has distanced themselves from this forum either.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> It's not hard to understand. I had a problem. I called Arc. They said to send it in. I found the problem before I had a chance to send it in. Im waiting one more cold morning free of pops to call it good. As i said at least 3 times if what I did fixed it, the problem is my fault, something i screwed up. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. If I weren't concerned about Arc's reputation I would just let this thread die with all of the **** talkers. If you take the time to read instead of looking for any excuse to talk **** I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself. So sit back and shut up or you might never know the outcome.


I don't really care what the issue is. I know it's not the PS8 like all the "it's chip is not rated for automotive use" wagon jumpers claimed. If nothing else I just wanted to see people backpedal from a retarded WAG when you DID find the problem. Call it morbid curiosity. 

And you REALLY need to get that chop off your shoulder. Jesus Christ...


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I don't really care what the issue is. I know it's not the PS8 like all the "it's chip is not rated for automotive use" wagon jumpers claimed. If nothing else I just wanted to see people backpedal from a retarded WAG when you DID find the problem. Call it morbid curiosity.
> 
> And you REALLY need to get that chop off your shoulder. Jesus Christ...


Me with a chip on MY shoulder? Have you ever read your own posts? 

No one is going to back track. If anyone made a mistake it was only me. Believe me when I say I'm keeping the peace. If I summarized some PMs I've received from some very well respected members, no one who has posted in this thread, it would not end here. So tone down the self righteousness and enjoy the show.

The "wagon jumper" you talk about owned and sold his PS8 long before my post and he most certainly did not seem as though he was on any wagon. In fact it seemed just the opposite but I can't speak for him. . I'm not sure why you have to be on a wagon as you imply in the first place. Arcs customer service is top notch as is the PS8. You continue being Arcs #1 fan maybe you can get a mod to setup an alert to page you if there's any anti Arc propaganda and you can blindly defend their honor at all hours of the night.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Big Red,
I cannot fix the jet engine noise. I'm not a code-writer. All I can do is replace units and I've replaced units in and out of warranty, purchased through authorized dealers and those not purchased through authorized dealers. I haven't avoided it and I've appreciated the help in troubleshooting that people on this forum have provided. I spend countless hours here answering all kinds of questions--MS-8 related and plenty of others. I've done my best to help you--in fact, you came to my house so I could help you tweak yours--you're not the only one, either. 

To the rest:

I don't denigrate other people's products and that's more than I can say about a few of those who compete with my products. I do call out BS when I see it, though. I've purchased and explained the differences between MS-8 and BitOne, Alpine PXE-Hxx, CarPCs, Rockford 360 and every other processor available and have called out what they do well and why someone would choose them over MS-8. In fact, I've suggested several times to several people that they might be happier with a competing model. I've also put many of those other products through our reliability testing procedure, so I know how they fare in terms of longevity when they're installed in cars. In some cases, I probably know more about those things than their tech support people and their trainers do. When I travel and do clinics all over the world, I tune those products, But I don't bad-mouth them. Providing good products is hard work, whether that work is in designing from the ground up, designing part of the product, or specifying a product to be designed by someone else. When you go to the burger joint, is the hamburger worse or less worthy of respect if you find they've used Heinz ketchup rather than making their own? The experience in buying and using a product is a combination of product performance, purchase experience and customer service. I think that the latter is the most important, and that's why I do what I do. 

As far as Arc not being a manufacturer? That's a bunch of crap. They spec their products, they have designers in house and they use consultants to do some additional design work. They have ODM (original design manufacturers) build the products, just like EVERY OTHER car audio COMPANY. 

Here is a list of a few of thoseODMs who build products for everyone:

EverVictory (Amps, speakers, head units, subwoofers)
Ultimate Sound (Amps, speakers, subwoofers, cabinets)
Meiloon (Speakers, subwoofers)
Artco (Amps, speakers, subwoofers)
Sonavox (Amps, speakers)
ESTEC (Speakers and subwoofers)
ForYou (Head Units--the biggest head unit supplier in the world)
Foster (Speakers, subwoofers)
LiteOn (electronics)
GGEC (Speakers)
Tymphany (Speakers, Subwoofers, Cabinets)
Actiway (Amps and electronics)
Bravox (Speakers)

And the list goes on and on and on. These companies provide design engineering and manufacturing. They'll build what you ask them to build, or you can choose from one of their designs. They usually won't build something better than what you ask for, so it's important to be involved and to be competent in working with them. That's the way it works. Arc Audio is no different than any other company--they design stuff and someone builds it. 

Sorry to derail this thread. Buick, I hope you get your issue resolved.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> Mark's an up late kinda dude. His neighbor has a horse.


I'm sorry dude but this has got to be the most non ****ing sequiter thing I have ever heard in my life.

I'm sigging that ****.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

chad said:


> I'm sorry dude but this has got to be the most non ****ing sequiter thing I have ever heard in my life.
> 
> I'm sigging that ****.


I was thinking the exact same thing. I read that and literally said out loud "What?" :laugh::laugh:


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I know one thing, when my wife gives me **** about staying up late all I have to do is point and say "Bob has a horse."

And my ass is CLEAR!


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Glock model 20.
Think of it as sound deadening for horses.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Glock model 20.
> Think of it as sound deadening for horses.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


In my neck of the woods, if you shoot someone's horse they may return volley with a RPG.

But then again horses are FAR from nocturnal.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing. I read that and literally said out loud "What?" :laugh::laugh:


Said neighbor


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

chad said:


> In my neck of the woods, if you shoot someone's horse they may return volley with a RPG.
> 
> But then again horses are FAR from nocturnal.


Same here.
It was a tongue in cheek kind of statement. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> Said neighbor


Still totally lost. 

Horse does not appear to have a loud stereo?

But then again if that dude was sitting on his horse across the street, or even at the end of my lane staring at me.. I'd have a hard time sleeping too.

Hell, we have longhorns around me, sounds like Jurassic Park at times. They sleep at night too.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Glock model 20.
> Think of it as sound deadening for horses.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


In no way related to this thread, I just got my Remington 870 tactical. I feel like a kid in a candy store. It's killing me that I have no time to take it to the range. In fact, it will probably be months before I get to actually try it out.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> It's killing me that I have no time to take it to the range. In fact, it will probably be months before I get to actually try it out.


Backyard FTMFW.

And congrats, I want one.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

chad said:


> Still totally lost.
> 
> Horse does not appear to have a loud stereo?
> 
> ...


Oh. Wait. You thought I was trying to stay OT? Silly, Chad. 

Backstory... Mark had a GTG. Marks neighbor came by on a horse. He apparently has a neighbor with a thing for him as well. We have a lot of jokes about it. Welcome to the inside.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

City folk........


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

BuickGN said:


> In no way related to this thread, I just got my Remington 870 tactical. I feel like a kid in a candy store. It's killing me that I have no time to take it to the range. In fact, it will probably be months before I get to actually try it out.


If your PS8 continues to cold pop I say you video tape the toss and shot. :laugh:


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

Since we're staying on-topic, I might need to buy me a new Buick Grand National when it's released. That would be better than the original. oke:


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't understand how anyone can get angry. No matter how hard I try, I am simply unable to get angry at anyone on this forum. I might get angry at myself for spending too much time on here, and irritated at best, at myself only again, when i say things i shouldn't say, but that's about it and it's all good because that's how we grow as humans.

Seems like a lot of people on here take things too seriously? Or maybe the keyboard/monitor thing makes it seem so, but really yall ROFL while insulting each other back and forth?

This is a forum, we can throw ideas around, speculate all we want, as long as its not slander, right?
Do we have to act proper, stand straight, and act as socially responsible, loyal customers? cause last time I checked, none of us pay MSRP when we can pay less, so perfect customers, we're not 

Maybe some of us like to vent and let out our frustration on here, i dont know. this is the only online forum i post in and i'm new at this stuff.

I personally sold my PS8 because it is not convenient without a remote and because I would probably end up burning some coils if I kept it. I had no complaints about sound quality. What I didnt like was related to the marketing, and everyone will feel different. I felt like the product description on their website was condescending, and I felt like the person who wrote it intentionally fluffed it up thinking "these idiots wont even know what it means" - sure, other companies do it, but not to this extent.
And of course, I waited for it, like everyone else, and was told that it was late because it had to be so puuuurfect.
"We're staggering shipments so everyone gets it at the same time" - really? then they must think we're ****ing idiots. This one is personal, because I shamefully admit that I have used that very excuse before, and I was full of **** and convinced that the customers were a bunch of deadbeats anyway.

And Andy's right. There aren't too many real OEMs out there. It's just not a good model anymore. Look at Sanmina, Flextronics/Solectron. These two companies make an utterly stupid amount of stuff, for everybody... Did you guys know that the same company makes the Xbox, part of the iphone, HP printers, cisco equipment, nokia phones, a ton of other ****? That's right, the zune and the iphone... the xbox... same company.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

chad said:


> City folk........


I grew up with a horse and a barn. 


Edit: forgt the funniest part of the dude in the horse. Did you see his Mohawk?

I saw him trotting down the street and told him I had to get a pic. Dude cheeses it up. Totally down with it. 


Marks other neighbor makes late night calls. Lol. Mark knows what I'm talking about!


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I think it looked like this








but it was a white unicorn, and the dude was carrying a plastic sword, and he said something like 'sire mark, will you ride my unicorn, we will fly away through the rainbows'


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

oca123 said:


> I don't understand how anyone can get angry. No matter how hard I try, I am simply unable to get angry at anyone on this forum. I might get angry at myself for spending too much time on here, and irritated at best, at myself only again, when i say things i shouldn't say, but that's about it and it's all good because that's how we grow as humans.
> 
> Seems like a lot of people on here take things too seriously? Or maybe the keyboard/monitor thing makes it seem so, but really yall ROFL while insulting each other back and forth?
> 
> ...


Arc's biggest issue with the site is that Fred is a terrible writer. Like, T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. 

Why do you think you'd have burned coils with the PS8? 

We talk **** and follow it with "LMAO", "LOL", smileys, etc. since we talk on here like we would in a parking lot GTG. We screw around. We talk ****. It's RARELY serious. But as you noted, unless you make an effort to put these identifiers after a post people will think you're serious. Humor and sarcasm don't read well online.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> We talk **** and follow it with "LMAO", "LOL", smileys, etc. since we talk on here like we would in a parking lot GTG. We screw around. We talk ****. It's RARELY serious. But as you noted, unless you make an effort to put these identifiers after a post people will think you're serious. Humor and sarcasm don't read well online.


This is true. I know I say a lot of stuff sometimes briskly here and don't follow it up with an emoticon. If we were in person, you'd know I'm just funnin around. But sometimes the net makes it easy to get pissed at someone's attitude. Them there are times we just flat out disagree. But most of us here are cool with each other. There's probably only a few people here I genuinely don't like... And they're on my ignore list. So, odds are if I'm quoting and replying to you, we're cool.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Paul.

Burned coils because using the optical input, sometimes volume would start at 0db, sometimes not... this is due to the ipod, not the PS8. A sine wave at 0db results in over 8V out of the PS8, which maxes out every single one of my amps at their minimum sensitivity settings, which results in every channel of every amp putting out its maximum rater power (within the limits of my alt+bat of course) which, considering I like tons of headroom, is not pretty.
I have an ID69 midbass driver that literally got welded into place. Not a pretty sight 

I am unable to obtain a signal that I'm happy with off of the stock bentley HU. Before the amp, no volume control, after the amp, there's weird artifacts, like reverb, etc.
I have a 360.3 in the meanwhile. it has a remote for volume. it's not adequate, and it has quirks, but it does the job for now.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> Marks other neighbor makes late night calls. Lol. Mark knows what I'm talking about!


That might be interpreted the wrong way.

Edit: I saw the mohawk. it really does look like the guy actually believes he's riding a white unicorn


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> That might be interpreted the wrong way.
> 
> 
> 
> It's intended to be. That's the inside joke part.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

the wrong way being the least convenient of the ways.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

OSN said:


> Since we're staying on-topic, I might need to buy me a new Buick Grand National when it's released. That would be better than the original. oke:


Ooh, nice... A modern day 450 HP LT1 mated with a 6 or 8 speed auto-tragic should make the new one haul azz. Stock for stock, new should be faster than the old.

One of the fastest vehicles I was ever a passenger in was a 1989 trans-am anniversary edition. Of course that was overshadowed by a later boss who had a 1000 HP 1996 Lingenfelter Vette. I will say this though, 1000 HP isn't exactly easy to drive on the streets because the slightest blip of the throttle would make the rear tires break loose.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> It's intended to be. That's the inside joke part.


Nice quoting Oliver.


----------



## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

chad said:


> Nice quoting Oliver.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Fred having bad grammar and spelling...nnnnoooooooooooo. lol.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> I grew up with a horse *and* a barn.


We just parallel park them in the street here.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Speaking of burned coils, I just had the car dropped off at the dent repair shop and forgot to pull the main fuse to the system...


----------



## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

I hope they don't trip over your kickpanel


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Big Red,
> I cannot fix the jet engine noise. I'm not a code-writer. All I can do is replace units and I've replaced units in and out of warranty, purchased through authorized dealers and those not purchased through authorized dealers. I haven't avoided it and I've appreciated the help in troubleshooting that people on this forum have provided. I spend countless hours here answering all kinds of questions--MS-8 related and plenty of others. I've done my best to help you--in fact, you came to my house so I could help you tweak yours--you're not the only one, either.


just to be clear, I've never said you were not helpful, with any problems with the MS8. But if you go back in the half million post thread and look, you never publicly said the jet engine noise was a cause of coding after being asked countless times. You've replaced units and tried to help, and for that I applaud you.

back to our regularly scheduled program


----------



## s4k4zulu (Mar 2, 2010)

man! i missed 3 pages and i'm completely lost


----------



## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

s4k4zulu said:


> man! i missed 3 pages and i'm completely lost


Don't worry, from everything I've read there has been no mention of what caused the unit to pop. :/ The only thing we've gotten is a possibility of user error. Even at that, we still don't know what was done to cause the unit to pop. I'm even beginning to question whether the unit popped at all.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

BigAl205 said:


> I hope they don't trip over your kickpanel


You have no idea how scared I am right now. I hope he doesn't sue me when he trips over the kick panel that's being held on by a small piece of velcro.

But seriously, with the 9s in the doors and a door panel that will probably be removed it's making me sweat. Plus the tweeters are now in the dash on axis with the driver and they're large so they really stand out. I'll be very lucky if nothing is blown or damaged. Luckily he owns his own shop so there's no minimum wage kid working there which makes me feel a little better. All of this because one of the GF's family members door dinged the hell out of my car on Thanksgiving. Her excuse was that she was drinking all day.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

s4k4zulu said:


> man! i missed 3 pages and i'm completely lost


we're throwing ideas around for a new sitcom.it will involve car audio reps who can't spell, gay black males with mohawks who like to ride horses (or unicorns, if i get my way)
there will be gay love... maybe a hopeless romance between PPI's avatar and said unicorn riding neighbor....
there will be action... BigRed's truck turns out to be Optimus Crime, Prime's evil cousin...
a chick who will tease you but never put out (sound_quality's avatar) and in the end turns out to be a dude and runs off with the unicorn guy
some science, where a team of mad scientists figure out what was causing the ms8 jet engine noise
we find out that Erin secretely wants the street walker who lives next door
in the end, as I take off my silicon mask and reveal that I am the street walker,
a Buick GN lands from outer space. The trunk opens up, and we finally find out that [......] was causing the PS8 to pop.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Speaking of burned coils, I just had the car dropped off at the dent repair shop and forgot to pull the main fuse to the system...


I'm assuming paintless dent repair.

Do you have any acoustic treatment stuck on the inside of your door skins? If so how do they deal with this?

I'm 8 years dent free (knocks on my solid as hell wood desk) But it is always a matter of time.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

chad said:


> I'm assuming paintless dent repair.
> 
> Do you have any acoustic treatment stuck on the inside of your door skins? If so how do they deal with this?
> 
> I'm 8 years dent free (knocks on my solid as hell wood desk) But it is always a matter of time.


7 years here until Thursday. 112,000 miles too. I do have deadening but this dent might be accessable just by opening the door, in the door jam area...hopefully. It's a hard spot to get to, that's for sure. I realized it was going to piss me off seeing it every single time I used the car so I decided to go ahead and get it fixed quickly. But now with the engagement, new house, new job title, etc, etc it's crazy right now. I fold under pressure and I'm in the process of folding lol.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> we're throwing ideas around for a new sitcom.it will involve car audio reps who can't spell, gay black males with mohawks who like to ride horses (or unicorns, if i get my way)
> there will be gay love... maybe a hopeless romance between PPI's avatar and said unicorn riding neighbor....
> there will be action... BigRed's truck turns out to be Optimus Crime, Prime's evil cousin...
> a chick who will tease you but never put out (sound_quality's avatar) and in the end turns out to be a dude and runs off with the unicorn guy
> ...


Lol... Great summary! Pinched wire between the glass and frame.... But you knew that already.  We still haven't seen any temps in the 30s yet but I'm pretty sure it's cured.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

See mine is stuck to what would be the backside (outie) of the dent... and removal of said treatment would suck.

Congrats on the engagement/house/job. I pulled that stunt on '04, it will change you


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Lol... Great summary! Pinched wire between the glass and frame.... But you knew that already.  We still haven't seen any temps in the 30s yet but I'm pretty sure it's cured.


****, that does it every time. Really pisses amps off, even the "ground" as the common of a car amp is "floating" When you "unfloat it" all hell can break loose.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Job? I missed the mention of the job.
In any case, I hope you're not folding under debt. It certainly doesn't seem like it, but ya never know.
I put 1500k miles on my boom boom car since Jan 1st, and I managed to get a dent on the freeway.
I really don't know what else to type to drown out the cause of the popping sound Buick. I'm doing my best to cover it up.

Ironically, a shop called BigRedT has something quite fitting:


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

chad said:


> ****, that does it every time. Really pisses amps off, even the "ground" as the common of a car amp is "floating" When you "unfloat it" all hell can break loose.


My leviathan was acting all sorts of crazy. I power each one of my midbass with two bridged channels @ 8Ohhm, so rated 380W. At med-high volumes, one of the midbass sides would pop, and both midrange drivers would pop, with like 200V.
It took a while, but eventually I figured it out. I was using a barrier strip, and at high volumes, one of the speaker leads was literally arc'ing and electricty would jump into the next wire. I saw it with my own eyes. crazy.


----------



## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Lol... Great summary! *Pinched wire between the glass and frame....* But you knew that already.  We still haven't seen any temps in the 30s yet but I'm pretty sure it's cured.


Boy, I can tell you a story of a similar situation when I first used Dynaudio many years ago.


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> It's called advertising. Every rep here does it. I know shortly Fred was out of the country when Buick's issues started. Kinda hard to fault a guy for not checking in. And as always, he could have called Arc.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said to call for EVERY question? Stop being a douchebag just to try and make a point. Yes, Arc is behind on the manual. It SHOULD have been ready at the shipping date. None of that is related to Buick's problem.


Nobodys faulting anyone. I just wanted to see how big of an ******* you are.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

falstaff said:


> Nobodys faulting anyone. I just wanted to see how big of an ******* you are. :biggrinflip::thumbsup: LMAO LOL ROFL J/K


fixed


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

oca123 said:


> fixed


I'm LOL....


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

To get back on topic, I once crushed a DC power connector in a similar fashion. Only, it wasn't fused, and it immediately caught on fire, along with most of the wire. It happened so fast, it was scary.
And then I found out about this nifty $7.00 item:








http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-H84960091-6-Way-Lateral-Single/dp/B000VU9D1G/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_4
I use the smallest fuses I can use, and they blow sometimes. I'm perfectly OK with that. I'd rather sacrifice a 15c fuse to save a $800 amp, than the other way around.


----------



## yeldak99 (Mar 5, 2008)

oca123 said:


> To get back on topic, I once crushed a DC power connector in a similar fashion. Only, it wasn't fused, and it immediately caught on fire, along with most of the wire. It happened so fast, it was scary.
> And then I found out about this nifty $7.00 item:
> 
> 
> ...



This is what I use as a fusebox in my Honda Ruckus.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

falstaff said:


> Nobodys faulting anyone. I just wanted to see how big of an ******* you are.


I'm a HUGE ******* but I'm also big on common sense. Plus, I'm a question-asker and most people HATE being questioned. They see it as aggressive. Joys of the internet.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> I'm a HUGE *******


your avatar suggests otherwise


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

oca123 said:


> your avatar suggests otherwise


What makes you say that?


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> What makes you say that?


that looks like a small ass to me.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Truth.


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

I understand every brand has their fanboy base.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

you don't say.....


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

falstaff said:


> I understand every brand has their fanboy base.


I'd hardly say I'm a fanboy. I haven't run anything from Arc since 2007.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Since I'm a dealer, does that automatically make me a fanboy? lol


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Niebur3 said:


> Since I'm a dealer, does that automatically make me a fanboy? lol


Like shooting fish in a barrel....


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^^^What do you mean? Why did you say that. Why are you being such an ass. In the words of my former brother-in-laws parents...."I am offended and pissed off!" (in an extreme southern accent, and spoken at the pace of a freakin' sloth)

Just kidding, of course! 

For the record, I was a Dyn fanboy LOOONNNGGG before becoming a dealer ! Oh, and a car audio fan boy!!!!!


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> 7 years here until Thursday. 112,000 miles too. I do have deadening but this dent might be accessable just by opening the door, in the door jam area...hopefully. It's a hard spot to get to, that's for sure. I realized it was going to piss me off seeing it every single time I used the car so I decided to go ahead and get it fixed quickly.* But now with the engagement, new house, new job title, etc, etc it's crazy right now. I fold under pressure and I'm in the process of folding lol*.


*****.....


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Niebur3 said:


> ^^^What do you mean? Why did you say that. Why are you being such an ass. In the words of my former brother-in-laws parents...."I am offended and pissed off!" (in an extreme southern accent, and spoken at the pace of a freakin' sloth)
> 
> Just kidding, of course!
> 
> For the record, I was a Dyn fanboy LOOONNNGGG before becoming a dealer ! Oh, and a car audio fan boy!!!!!


****, My pic did not come through.. Just noticed when I switched over to winders. Hang on


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

fixed it


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

chad said:


> ****, My pic did not come through.. Just noticed when I switched over to winders. Hang on


****, My pic or my **** pic?


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Absolutely the best active thread on DIYMA right now.....


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I'd hardly say I'm a fanboy. I haven't run anything from Arc since 2007.


Then that would mean I'm not a JL fanboy.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> *****.....
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


You got that right. You should see my phone right now, it seems like I have a reminder going off every 15 minutes for something associated with the move or the job or the car or whatever. The first thing to go is my memory when I get stressed but luckily I can remember just long enough to enter it into my phone. I was so wound up at work today that I didn't realize until 4PM that I forgot to eat today. Maybe some good will come from this. The fiancee loves to plan and organize so it's to the point that she sticks her hand out and I give her money and that's that. In a few days I'll have my shotgun to go blow off some steam (in a legal way of course lol). I even look forward to fighting with Chad to relieve some stress. I'm from the South, I don't like it when things get too fast paced.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

BuickGN said:


> You got that right. You should see my phone right now, it seems like I have a reminder going off every 15 minutes for something associated with the move or the job or the car or whatever


Lol. You don't have kids do you? Try every 1 minute you've got a baby yelling at you and you don't know wtf for.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I aim to please. 

Sent from my Sony Tablet S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Lol. You don't have kids do you? Try every 1 minute you've got a baby yelling at you and you don't know wtf for.


That sounds like every relationship I've had. Kids are on the short list and being a little older than most that are just starting out is going to make it a little harder. At least we're somewhat stable financially but still. Lack of sleep is my kriptonite. Lately it's been 2-3 hours a night and it makes me...... Stupid for lack of a better word. I don't drink but maybe twice a year but I've read some of my posts after being tired and thought WTF was I thinking, it's worse than drinking.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

We tried later in life, did not work... Had to draw the line.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I tried not to and had 2. It was never part of my life plan but I don't regret it at all. Especially now that I realize I'll be young enough to enjoy life once they're out of the house.


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

fanboys...hilarious.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

so if using a brand name as your forum name doesnt make you a fanboy, i wonder what does...


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> I tried not to and had 2. It was never part of my life plan but I don't regret it at all. Especially now that I realize I'll be young enough to enjoy life once they're out of the house.


kids are actually a topic that keeps getting brought up more and more here at home. in the past few years, i've been able to dodge it... everytime she has wanted a baby, i got her a dog.
but i believe there is a law that restricts the number of dogs you can have under one roof, unless you get a kennel license.
i really don't want kids, and i can find enough hobbies to keep busy until i die. but i'm afraid my wife might go crazy without kids, and, i might regret it later.
i really don't have any motivation to have kids, and any reasons to have some are purely selfish. probably not a good start, i would say.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Erin...a baby with colic is even more better.


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

oca123 said:


> so if using a brand name as your forum name doesnt make you a fanboy, i wonder what does...



Touche.... However I never even seen the beer for sale anywhere.


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> I'd hardly say I'm a fanboy. I haven't run anything from Arc since 2007.


Your to easy to get fired up. Lol


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

*You're

You think that's me fired up? lol It was just a rebuttal to a statement. Nothing more.


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Lol. Your the best.

Wouldn't it also be "you're too"?

I guess you got all excited to point out my error you missed one.


----------



## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

falstaff said:


> Lol. Your the best.
> 
> Wouldn't it also be "you're too"?
> 
> I guess you got all excited to point out my error you missed one.


Lol!


----------



## xxlrg (Oct 2, 2012)

So no verdict yet on the popping?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

falstaff said:


> Lol. Your the best.
> 
> Wouldn't it also be "you're too"?
> 
> I guess you got all excited to point out my error you missed one.



I get less worked up about that one than your, and you're. Don't even get me started on their, there, and they're, brake and break, and sell and sale. I would love to murder everyone that says irregardless and "should of"...


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> I get less worked up about that one than your, and you're. Don't even get me started on their, there, and they're, brake and break, and sell and sale. I would love to murder everyone this says irregardless and "should of"...


It's errlavant

OTOH, I have a dictionary for sell.


----------



## req (Aug 4, 2007)

i cant believe i wasted the last 30 minutes reading from my last post in this thread just to see if there was a solution to the enigma.

why are you all babbling...

wait, i have a great idea. don't answer that. stay on topic


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

xxlrg said:


> So no verdict yet on the popping?


No popping. The coldest it's been is mid 40s but before I found the likely problem it was popping in the 50s. Just waiting on the weather but I'm 99.8% sure it was the wire, making it my fault.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I get less worked up about that one than your, and you're. Don't even get me started on their, there, and they're, brake and break, and sell and sale. I would love to murder everyone this says irregardless and "should of"...


Its the apostrophe on every single plural word that ends in S that gets me. Even documents issued from our legal department that gets sent to Sacramento has been known to have an apostrophe where it doesn't belong.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> No popping. The coldest it's been is mid 40s but before I found the likely problem it was popping in the 50s. Just waiting on the weather but I'm 99.8% sure it was the wire, making it my fault.


We need to chat about that, I can open this up a bit technically... I kinda posted in the other thread about that inadvertently.

But rightfully so by the rules in place.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Its the apostrophe on every single plural word that ends in S that gets me. Even documents issued from our legal department that gets sent to Sacramento has been known to have an apostrophe where it doesn't belong.


Yeah, that one too. Or the it's/its...ugh...


----------



## xxlrg (Oct 2, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> No popping. The coldest it's been is mid 40s but before I found the likely problem it was popping in the 50s. Just waiting on the weather but I'm 99.8% sure it was the wire, making it my fault.


Sorry I missed it but what wire are you speaking of exactly?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

A shorted speaker wire


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> A shorted speaker wire


I wish that was what happened, that wouldn't have been so embarrassing. On the top of the PS8 there's a little glass cover with several led indicators. I pinched one of those wires between the glass and frame. From the angle the wire was at, it's possible it was shorting between one another indicator wire as well. I found no tracks but I'm not sure if they would show up with such low voltages. I think I just destroyed any chances of any warranty coverage down the road if something goes out but that's my punishment for being a dumbass.

The system is outright louder and more dynamic with no other changes, internal PS8 temps have dropped about 60F and there's the tiniest of clicks as it turns on (or maybe it's the amps) but nothing out of the ordinary. Regardless I still tense up bracing myself for the pop everytime I start the car. It's going to take months of no pops to get over that.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

chad said:


> We need to chat about that, I can open this up a bit technically... I kinda posted in the other thread about that inadvertently.
> 
> But rightfully so by the rules in place.


Definitely. We can take it to PM, chat, or email (work or home depending on the time of day), or face time lol. I would love to hear what you have to say.... unless you're talking **** in which case I would probably have to piss up a rope.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Definitely. We can take it to PM, chat, or email (work or home depending on the time of day), or face time lol. I would love to hear what you have to say.... unless you're talking **** in which case I would probably have to piss up a rope.


**** man, we could piss up a rope, tell each other to **** off and shoot down my 100 yard range in my back yard.

Bring that shotgun you just bought 

Yeah... car amps can be funny, but when I'm done with you after an hour, you will likely be able to diagnose failures that do not include "burnt up ****."

And it will be funny. Because that's how I roll.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

chad said:


> **** man, we could piss up a rope, tell each other to **** off and shoot down my 100 yard range in my back yard.
> 
> Bring that shotgun you just bought
> 
> ...


I'm on the way, rope in hand.

Edit: that doesn't sound right.:blush:


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I'm on the way, rope in hand.
> 
> Edit: that doesn't sound right.:blush:


Got one last shove at the Uni through finals and the recital rush.... Then I am free......

Audio Engineer Olympics is now on where I work.

In 2 weeks I will never ever want to hear another note of Classical or Jazz.

And then I will get over it.


----------



## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Yeah, that one too. Or the it's/its...ugh...


Walla...there you have it


people can't spell 'voila' :laugh:


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BigAl205 said:


> Walla...there you have it
> 
> 
> people can't spell 'voila' :laugh:


or "prolly" or "suposably"...


----------



## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> or "prolly" or "suposably"...


Your point is mute.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

highly said:


> Your point is mute.


Or as Joey Tribiani would say it's "moo".


----------



## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Or as Joey Tribiani would say it's "moo".


If a tree falls in the woods and there's nobody around to hear it is it a mute point? 

Sorry. 

Back to the previously concluded thread...


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Or as Joey Tribiani would say it's "moo".


"It's like a cow's opinion, it doesn't matter" :laugh:


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

highly said:


> Your point is mute.


I just spent 10 minutes reading the comments. My head is spinning. It somehow turned into a military debate, where one poster's parents ended up posting that they love him. Can't wait for buickgn's parents to sign on next time he starts a thread... "we love you son".


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Or as Joey Tribiani would say it's "moo".





t3sn4f2 said:


> "It's like a cow's opinion, it doesn't matter" :laugh:


Good to see some Friends fans around here. Somehow Joey's explanation actually made sense (as Racheal said). I've literally watched all 10 seasons at least 5 times. When I first met my GF she got me into Friends and it's become our ritual before falling asleep. We talk in Friends quotes most of the time. People just shake thier heads.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It was a great show. Even when it was long in the tooth and you could tell it needed to end there were still some gems in there.


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> Good to see some Friends fans around here. Somehow Joey's explanation actually made sense (as Racheal said). I've literally watched all 10 seasons at least 5 times. When I first met my GF she got me into Friends and it's become our ritual before falling asleep. We talk in Friends quotes most of the time. People just shake thier heads.


My wife's a huge friends fan.
We both actually met Matt Leblanc in Vegas at the Pantera Owner's Club of America's annual get-together as he owned one as well.
A really nice guy and he sounds just like Joey when speaking.
It was funny to hear my wife ridiculously giddy while talking with him.
If three's a crowd, then I was the third person and should have just gone to the bar and let them talk.
I don't think he was all that much interested in our Pantera as he was with her. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## postman18ny (Dec 3, 2008)

I had a similar problem with mine popping I blew 2 scans tweeters and it really hurt me emotionally. I found out it was my remote wire( I did not have it properly secured.) so I would check that if I were you


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> My wife's a huge friends fan.
> We both actually met Matt Leblanc in Vegas at the Pantera Owner's Club of America's annual get-together as he owned one as well.
> A really nice guy and he sounds just like Joey when speaking.
> It was funny to hear my wife ridiculously giddy while talking with him.
> ...


Lol. I'm sure you could have figured out a way to benefit from it.... kidding.

I went through the same thing with my GF when we were first together. We went to one of Chuck Liddel's parties and at the time he was dating my ex (the Erin Wilson that I mentioned earlier). This was my GF's first time meeting him so she was a bit starstruck and wanted a picture with him but I told her not to because as far as I was concerned you take the celebrity away and it's my GF wanting a picture with my ex's boyfriend which just looks bad on me. Me and Erin did not end on a good note (she's a heavy drinker and occasional meth user) and I was already getting dirty looks from across the table as it was. Long story short. my GF asked for a picture anyway even though I told her she would have ample opportunity when Erin was not there, Erin had this huge smirk and to save face or so I thought at the time and being buzzed, I jumped in the picture at the last second. That was our first fight.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

postman18ny said:


> I had a similar problem with mine popping I blew 2 scans tweeters and it really hurt me emotionally. I found out it was my remote wire( I did not have it properly secured.) so I would check that if I were you


Thanks, I will be sure to check that shortly.


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Where's all the mods that wanna cut your dick off when u go off topic? Lol


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BigRed said:


> Where's all the mods that wanna cut your dick off when u go off topic? Lol


I still have a dick.


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BigRed said:


> Where's all the mods that wanna cut your dick off when u go off topic? Lol


I liked the off topic topic. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

There was a topic?


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Lol. Me too


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

chad said:


> I still have a dick.


Send Ant Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> Send Ant Pics or it didn't happen.


There went the neighborhood...!


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

highly said:


> There went the neighborhood...!


What? I thought that was the thing to do... Do I need to link it?


----------



## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> What? I thought that was the thing to do... Do I need to link it?


NO! PLEASEFORTHELOVEOFGODNO!


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/122652-diyma-dipshit-year-award-goes.html done.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

2012 thread of the year nominee.


----------



## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> No popping. The coldest it's been is mid 40s but before I found the likely problem it was popping in the 50s. Just waiting on the weather but I'm 99.8% sure it was the wire, making it my fault.



Maybe you/or a mod can edit the original post with above quote. Just an idea... reading up to the 10th page can take a few minutes for someone looking for a conclusion.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

adrenalinejunkie said:


> Maybe you/or a mod can edit the original post with above quote. Just an idea... reading up to the 10th page can take a few minutes for someone looking for a conclusion.


I agree. I've thought about asking several times as well as changing the title to something like "I'm a dumbass" so Arcs reputation is not questioned.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

cajunner said:


> wait, it was a wire?
> 
> I got so lost.. then there were boobies and Friends, I started to have feelings for actors and with Pantera playing, must have been some whole home partay..


Lol, yeah it was a pinched wire between the glass cover and the frame, one of the wires that powers an LED. The problem is we still have not had a day in the 30s or even close to it since. I know the problem is fixed but I would still like to have just one 30 degree day.


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

BuickGN said:


> Lol, yeah it was a pinched wire between the glass cover and the frame, one of the wires that powers an LED. The problem is we still have not had a day in the 30s or even close to it since. I know the problem is fixed but I would still like to have just one 30 degree day.


Come o'er for a beer, it's -11 Celcius outside


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> Lol, yeah it was a pinched wire between the glass cover and the frame, one of the wires that powers an LED. The problem is we still have not had a day in the 30s or even close to it since. I know the problem is fixed but I would still like to have just one 30 degree day.


Yep drive up here.
Cold and very wet.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Yep drive up here.
> Cold and very wet.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know if this is in your area but I did some work in Tahoe on top of Mt Rose (I think) many, many years ago when I used to work on cell towers. It was far from winter but in the 20s, raining, and on a tower there's always wind, just constant unrelenting wind. I always say I can tough out anything, mind over matter so forget about freezing while up there, on the way down my hands weren't really working too well. I was having to climb one peg at a time and visually verify my hand was wrapped around the peg. Due to feeling nothing and no strength in my hands I was using my fall suppresant on each peg as I went down which quadrupled the time. I literally couldn't do it. Plus I learned that FWD cars on R compounds absolutely suck when asked to go uphill on slippery roads. What area are you in again?


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I don't know if this is in your area but I did some work in Tahoe on top of Mt Rose (I think) many, many years ago when I used to work on cell towers. It was far from winter but in the 20s, raining, and on a tower there's always wind, just constant unrelenting wind. I always say I can tough out anything, mind over matter so forget about freezing while up there, on the way down my hands weren't really working too well. I was having to climb one peg at a time and visually verify my hand was wrapped around the peg. Due to feeling nothing and no strength in my hands I was using my fall suppresant on each peg as I went down which quadrupled the time. I literally couldn't do it. Plus I learned that FWD cars on R compounds absolutely suck when asked to go uphill on slippery roads. What area are you in again?


I'm just West of Lake Tahoe close to the Rubicon Trail.
Haven't seen the sun for six days with no end in sight on the rain. :mean:
Feels like I'm in Seattle.

Yep, it can definitely get very cold and windy at that altitude.
There's so much snow up here every year that it literally supplies the central valley and much of the L.A. basin with water through the Summer via the California Aqueduct.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

i can understand why you can't edit posts after a while and i can deal with that, but i also find it really annoying that you can't edit the original post when you're the OP.

About the popping, i understand a pinched wire was involved, and that it was a wire going to the front window of the PS8 where the LEDs are. The thing is, the front panel is used as a display, and if you remove it, the PS8 works just the same, so to me, the actual reason for the popping has not been given.
Was it heat caused by the short? Was current going through there only when the PS8 was on, or did it happen with the car off and nothing into Rem in?

Oh, and I doubt we're talking millivolts here. Were the LEDs on when the issue was going on? Also, how hot was the PS8 getting? I think you said 170F?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Why couldn't it have caused it? A wire carrying power was shorted to the chassis ground.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

that still doesn't explain what was going on and how it made the unit pop.


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

oca123 said:


> that still doesn't explain what was going on and how it made the unit pop.


You could always buy one- ship it to him... take his old one- install it and drive to somewhere cold and try it yourself.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

A pinched wire establishing a connection where there was not supposed to be one can cause problems, we all agree on that. However, I have had pinched wires that have caused nothing but some LEDs to not light up, etc.
In this case, I believe the LEDs if hooked up normally would need 3V and a little bit of current. If hooked up backwards, they would be a diode, and backwards voltage would be much higher, with a threshold past which the diode would give up and open up. That would cause a lot of current to go through.
It's also possible that current was flowing through the metal case, which was heating up as a result, baking the insides.

I'm just curious as to why the unit was popping like this, and why it was only happening when it started up, and not after it was started. Was because it didn't have enough power available?

This is what I meant, but failed to express properly yesterday.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

All has been well until today. It was the coldest it's been in a while, low 40s and I heard some mild pops. But that's not the big problem. The big problem was when I went to start the engine after a couple hours of attempting to install new kicks that have no chance in hell of fitting. So I start the engine and get a pop and a ton of engine noise. It's like the gains are maxed out. At volume 1 of 40 its loud. By volume 6 its very loud and goes into protect. Best of all every speaker is playing full range. I have female vocals from the subs, sub bass from my midranges and I'm glad I have the highpass activated on the tweeter amp so they "only" had to take 500hz.


----------



## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

My, you have some sorry luck! Hope you get to the bottom of it


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Car audio is the least of it. But it definitely sucks, almost enough that I'm considering selling everything. I put the main system fuse back in this morning and it was the same thing, tons of hiss like the gains are maxed, very loud on volume 1 of 40 and everything is playing full range. I haven't had a chance to put the laptop on it yet. I had been playing music for a couple hours and went from "on" to "start" and when it came back on everything was screwed up.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I hate to ask the dumb question here, but why have you not sent it back to Arc? even if you think it might be something in your system, you have been offered by the manufacturer the ability to send it back for testing to at least eliminate one potential issue. Plus, your title is pretty staunch. Attracting a lot of negative attention to a component that may not be at fault. Before continuing to bring this negative attention to the PS8, I'd make sure that it's not the reason for your issues. 

If you're not willing to send it in, do you have anyone local to you who is good at troubleshooting? I know you say this is an even that only occurs in the cold... so meet up early before it gets warm.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I did not send it back because I found the pinched wire and its been fine ever since but on the flip side we haven't had any really cold weather. Everything has been fine until yesterday, I thought the problem had been solved. You might have missed the part where I said this whole thing was my fault in regards to the popping. This particular issue has never happened before. It happened around midnight last night. Today is Saturday. What exactly should I do right now, drive it down to Arc and leave it on the doorstep? I told you to change the title if you don't like it. Will I send it back this time, yes. No matter what I find and even if I think this new issue is my fault I'm sending it back. I can't imagine the carnage had I had the volume above 1 when I started it. I'm also glad I have the high passes activated on the amps.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Plugged the laptop in. Everything looked normal but it wasn't I had to go to each setting such as every crossover setting and hit enter to reapply the crossover settings. Same goes for TA, output, input, etc. I lost my eq setting but luckily I have practically zero eq used. I guess turning the volume down to zero before turning the car off will become a ritual.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Plugged the laptop in. Everything looked normal but it wasn't I had to go to each setting such as every crossover setting and hit enter to reapply the crossover settings. Same goes for TA, output, input, etc. I lost my eq setting but luckily I have practically zero eq used. I guess turning the volume down to zero before turning the car off will become a ritual.


I just installed my PS8 and WOW what an improvement over the p99rs. I havent even tuned the system yet.

I love the DSP via optical input. I am highly impressed and I am sorry that you had some problems. Any cool features you can share with a noob?


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## frmdrkside (Jul 13, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Plugged the laptop in. Everything looked normal but it wasn't I had to go to each setting such as every crossover setting and hit enter to reapply the crossover settings. Same goes for TA, output, input, etc. I lost my eq setting but luckily I have practically zero eq used. I guess turning the volume down to zero before turning the car off will become a ritual.


This is exactly one of the issues we had with our ps8's. We documented our experiences at length with Arc. I would contact them or return to the dealer you purchased it from and have them talk to Fred. This issue was the primary reason we removed it from the customers vehicle as it's a fully active 3way up front and this was a recipe for destroying speakers.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Should be a simple fix


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

First cold day since I found the wires yesterday, had pops, sending it in early next year. Even colder today, I warmed it up with a hair drier before starting the car, no pops. I guess this will be my procedure anytime the temperature gets into the 40s. I left an old hairdrier in the trunk for cold days so it's not too inconvenient.

With the amp's 500hz highpass on the tweeters and 150hz highpass on the mids it doesn't sound quite as bad as it used to but it's still pretty scary. I'm wondering if I should set a 40hz highpass on the midbass..... But then again, if the tweeters can handle it, I doubt I'm going to hurt the midbass.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

cajunner said:


> shoot that *****er *(excuse my french)


That would be *enculé* (an cue lay) 

And so the saga continues...

BuickGN, if you ever end up driving down to OC, I like troubleshooting stuff... and when troubleshooting doesn't work, well, there's always just plain shooting.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> That would be *enculé* (an cue lay)
> 
> And so the saga continues...
> 
> BuickGN, if you ever end up driving down to OC, I like troubleshooting stuff... and when troubleshooting doesn't work, well, there's always just plain shooting.


If you want a shot at it before I send it in, we can do that.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> If you want a shot at it before I send it in, we can do that.


Jesus.......just send it in and get this resolved.
That's what warranties are for.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Jesus.......just send it in and get this resolved.
> That's what warranties are for.
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly!!!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Cool. Close the thread. I've got one foot out of car audio already after another $300 wasted on junk that won't fit my car and I'm sol, exactly what I needed right before Christmas. Maybe I'll make a video of it being burned or runover. I'm not sending the PS8 in right now due to Christmas and NewYears delays so it can't hurt to have a forum member take a look in the meantime. 

As I said, close the thread apparently its too much for people to handle what I do with my equipment.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh, yeah, I was just looking for an excuse to hang out and as my wife says "do speaker stuff"
Another post up here says the problem was experienced with multiple units, therefore, there's a good chance it's not something that can be fixed on a sunday,
and I'm sure BuickGN has already gone through the normal troubleshooting steps.

But I wouldn't ship it until after xmas.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> Cool. Close the thread. I've got one foot out of car audio already after another $300 wasted on junk that won't fit my car and I'm sol, exactly what I needed right before Christmas. Maybe I'll make a video of it being burned or runover. I'm not sending the PS8 in right now due to Christmas and NewYears delays so it can't hurt to have a forum member take a look in the meantime.
> 
> As I said, close the thread apparently its too much for people to handle what I do with my equipment.


What kind of $300 junk?
When the iPad first came out, I had plans to get one and blow it up with a 50 cal BMG, but I pussied out of waiting in line at the store with a bunch off annoying **** in turtlenecks and square glasses


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> Oh, yeah, I was just looking for an excuse to hang out and as my wife says "do speaker stuff"
> Another post up here says the problem was experienced with multiple units, therefore, there's a good chance it's not something that can be fixed on a sunday,
> and I'm sure BuickGN has already gone through the normal troubleshooting steps.
> 
> But I wouldn't ship it until after xmas.


Same here. It would be a good excuse to meet you. You have done some very nice things for me and you've been very helpful. While we probably wouldn't fix anything I would still love to hear your setup.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

Sorry did you say "high pass tweeters set at 500hz and up"? That seems way too low...hopefully this gets resolved for you, I say send it back to Arc. They can run some tests and maybe learn from this situation.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Sound Suggestions said:


> Sorry did you say "high pass tweeters set at 500hz and up"? That seems way too low...hopefully this gets resolved for you, I say send it back to Arc. They can run some tests and maybe learn from this situation.


The amps high pass as a back up, way out of the passband yet covers dsp failures or accidental settings.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

^sorry I haven't read all 12 pages, I did read the first few ones when he started having problems, looks like I missed a few posts 

Still sucks he's having so many issues, I know arc was trying to test these units for a long time to make sure no issues would arise once at launched...i know because I tried very unsuccessfully to test one prior to launch!...looks like they should have let me try one since I live in canada (great white cold north!)


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Yeah, I wish the amps highpass would go higher but 500hz is much better than 20hz. They did sound amazingly good when the PS8 lost its settings and they were playing 500hz and up. No popping or spitting or distortion even with it fairly loud.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Cool. Close the thread. I've got one foot out of car audio already after another $300 wasted on junk that won't fit my car and I'm sol, exactly what I needed right before Christmas. Maybe I'll make a video of it being burned or runover. I'm not sending the PS8 in right now due to Christmas and NewYears delays so it can't hurt to have a forum member take a look in the meantime.
> 
> As I said, close the thread apparently its too much for people to handle what I do with my equipment.


You're bitching about Christmas spending but are going to buy a trip of 1200s or 13W7s seriously? 

And it CAN hurt to have a forum member look at your PS8. If he messes with it, Arc MIGHT be nice to still work on but personally, I'd tell you to GFY. You've been dicking around with this for months instead of just taking a few minutes out of your day and sending the god damned thing in. 

Jesus Christ...


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Dude, we'd probably just hang out, put a scope in the inputs and outputs, but I would never touch the PCB or do anything funny to the firmware, or even communicate with it directly via serial connection, since it's under warranty. I may be crazy, but not with other people's stuff!!

BuickGN, I don't have a set up right now, everything is out of the car, except for the 8'' midbass. The amp rack is half built and wired outside of the car and I have all of the new speakers, etc.
CVJoint is coming over to work on his car, I plan on using that time to work on mine and finish my set up as well. There's probably 3 days worth of work left to do.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> Dude, we'd probably just hang out, put a scope in the inputs and outputs, but I would never touch the PCB or do anything funny to the firmware, or even communicate with it directly via serial connection, since it's under warranty. I may be crazy, but not with other people's stuff!!
> 
> BuickGN, I don't have a set up right now, everything is out of the car, except for the 8'' midbass. The amp rack is half built and wired outside of the car and I have all of the new speakers, etc.
> CVJoint is coming over to work on his car, I plan on using that time to work on mine and finish my set up as well. There's probably 3 days worth of work left to do.


Yeah, I would just love to know what's happening even if we can't do anything about it. I'll PM you shortly. You're welcome to take the controls of mine, I'm sure you can come up with a better tune than what I currently have. 



quality_sound said:


> You're bitching about Christmas spending but are going to buy a trip of 1200s or 13W7s seriously?
> 
> And it CAN hurt to have a forum member look at your PS8. If he messes with it, Arc MIGHT be nice to still work on but personally, I'd tell you to GFY. You've been dicking around with this for months instead of just taking a few minutes out of your day and sending the god damned thing in.
> 
> Jesus Christ...


Off the wagon again, huh? I have not bitched about Christmas spending, I bitched about $300 worth of product that is not usable, something I bought for myself and my car. Not sure where you got Christmas spending out of that. I don't mind spending money on a product that works

If you take the time to read before spewing that diarrhea of the mouth you might see where I thought the problem was fixed up until a couple days ago. Now sober up or get back on your meds or whatever it is that you do but it's Christmas time, try and have a better attitude. Just because your wife left you doesn't mean you have the right to be condescending to everyone else. If what a stranger does with his PS8 gets you this mad, I can only imagine what you're like in person. Jeez.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Ouch.

I think I might regret getting in the middle of this later.... but while I kind of agree with BuickGN, I don't think that the comment about the wife is appropriate. I understand that the quarrel between you to has been going on for a while, and I understand Paul made some comments that were hurtful towards you Matt, but making equally hurtful comments back is not a very mature way to deal with this, especially on Christmas eve, with xmas being a family holiday, the kids, etc. etc.
But it's all good 
Oh and Buick, I was going to PM you yesterday, and I completely forgot, PE was having a special on the omnimic setup for $200. I believe it's now back to $300. If you call them, maybe they will be willing to sell it to you at yesterday's price....


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Yeah, I would just love to know what's happening even if we can't do anything about it. I'll PM you shortly. You're welcome to take the controls of mine, I'm sure you can come up with a better tune than what I currently have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol....


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

From Arc audio's Facebook:
As we move thru this rather chilly time of year we have recently received some inquiries on the PS8's capabilities to operate in cold weather climates. Rather than just talking specifications we figured the best way is to let the PS8 do the talking itself.

This video is a full representation of its complete operation and stability below zero degrees Fahrenheit. For this test a PS8 PCB was placed in our environmental test chamber and let there for several hours at negative 45 degrees Fahrenheit to ensure that core temperature of every component was also at this same temperature. The unit was then rapidly removed, hooked up and signal was confirmed passed thru the PS8. Then a 20Hz - 20kHz frequency sweep was completed showing less than .0271dB deviation at any point in this test. Phenomenal results!

The initial temperature measurements are confirmed thru the test chambers on board temperature gauge along with an external temperature gauge certified to -60 degrees Fahrenheit. After the unit was removed temperature readings are with a thermal site probe which unfortunately is only certified to zero degrees Fahrenheit and below that will only display the temperature as "- - ".

We hope this will handle the inquiries and interest. 

http://video.ak.fbcdn.net/hvideo-ak..._=1358304589_b6097ab7b2a2414a2fadf2baab797e56


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I've been wanting to say this for a while now. If it'll handle -60 just below freezing won't hurt it.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

I just watched the video on FB too. Hopefully this one has been sent into arc and the issue is being resolved.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I think we would all like to see some resolution to Buick's saga.
Hopefully he'll post soon about what came of sending it in for warranty and the final results.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Did he actually send it in or did he come up with another ******** reason not to?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Did he actually send it in or did he come up with another ******** reason not to?


Off the meds again I see. You really should get help with that bipolar or whatever makes you so pissed about something you're not a part of at someone you've never met. Don't worry about what I do, don't take your ****ty personal life out on me. I didn't take everything from you. Car audio is at the bottom of my list at the moment.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

To Bret, I've been driving around with no radio, main fuse pulled over the past month or two, too many more important things going on right now to worry about this stuff. I have tomorrow off so I might send it in. I read a neat post on here a week ago and had to try it out so I pulled out the old hairdrier I keep in the trunk, heated it up and spent a little time tuning which was fun as I don't get to do it much anymore. I accidentally left the fuse in that night and the fiancee had to use my car the next morning. Apparently it scared her pretty bad but the speakers survived once again.

I have a pair of tweeters that I'm a day late sending out to a member because I had to go out of town unexpectedly yesterday so I'll have to get down to the post office anyway tomorrow. I'll also have to refund a few bucks off of the tweeters for being late unfortunately but I'll probably send both of these at the same time. Once I get it back I doubt I'll install it anytime soon. At most I'll probably send a full range signal to my 9s in the doors just to have some tunes in the near future. I've been losing interest quickly.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> To Bret, I've been driving around with no radio, main fuse pulled over the past month or two, too many more important things going on right now to worry about this stuff. I have tomorrow off so I might send it in. I read a neat post on here a week ago and had to try it out so I pulled out the old hairdrier I keep in the trunk, heated it up and spent a little time tuning which was fun as I don't get to do it much anymore. I accidentally left the fuse in that night and the fiancee had to use my car the next morning. Apparently it scared her pretty bad but the speakers survived once again.
> 
> I have a pair of tweeters that I'm a day late sending out to a member because I had to go out of town unexpectedly yesterday so I'll have to get down to the post office anyway tomorrow. I'll also have to refund a few bucks off of the tweeters for being late unfortunately but I'll probably send both of these at the same time. Once I get it back I doubt I'll install it anytime soon. At most I'll probably send a full range signal to my 9s in the doors just to have some tunes in the near future. I've been losing interest quickly.


Sounds like works running you ragged again.
Here's hoping the PS-8 gets fixed quickly so you can once again enjoy your car audio; something that I know you're so very passionate about.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Sounds like works running you ragged again.
> Here's hoping the PS-8 gets fixed quickly so you can once again enjoy you car audio; something that I know you're so very passionate about.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you it means a lot. Work has become a lot more stressful but there's so much else going on besides work along and with the complete lack of sleep that I forgot my way home the other day (no I don't drink lol). I know I owe it to ARC to send this in otherwise I would be fine enjoying the silence on the way home.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I pass my exit sometimes, comes with age.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I can't see my exit unless my highbeams are on. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

A lot of my drive is cruise control interstate 

Then you extit, turn left, drive, listen for the sound of dueling banjos, go 10 minutes further.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Try calling the fiancée because you can't remember if you take a right or a left on a route you've done roughly 900 times. The silence has been really nice... seriously. I've had the flu for 3 days each day has been worse, no idea how bad its going to get but this is really not cool. I also parallel parked this morning and took my bumper down to the urethane against a really tall curb. It needs to be replaced. I never screw up driving, first scrape the car has ever had and I haven't had the energy to get angry about it. I MUST get those tweeters a member bought shipped tomorrow so I'll get the PS8 shipped as well. I'll let you guys know.


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

We had 2 units with Cold Weather Popping. We contacted Fred and we sent the 1st unit out around the end of November. I believe he used ours as a guinea pig it might even be the one in the video. Anyway we received it back last week and it works flawless in cold weather. We also performed an OP amp upgrade per Fred's recommendation we choose these:

LM4562NA/NOPB Texas Instruments | LM4562NA/NOPB-ND | DigiKey

What a difference this made its unreal !! Thanks FRED !

I sent the 2nd unit in today overnite. Fred even offered to turn it around quick so we have it ready for this weekends IASCA event at the shop. 

Anybody who is having issues call the dealer you bought it from get it taken care of its there job as a dealer to support there products they represent ! If they won't help you call ARC send it in get it warrantied END OF STORY !! ARC has bent over backwards to help us out with this issue and many other things no questions asked !! :beerchug:


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Syracuse Customs said:


> We had 2 units with Cold Weather Popping. We contacted Fred and we sent the 1st unit out around the end of November. I believe he used ours as a guinea pig it might even be the one in the video. Anyway we received it back last week and it works flawless in cold weather. We also performed an OP amp upgrade per Fred's recommendation we choose these:
> 
> LM4562NA/NOPB Texas Instruments | LM4562NA/NOPB-ND | DigiKey
> 
> ...


LM4562 are awesome! I used them in several of my amps . I suggested them to Fred when he was doin the Opamp test...and they went on to win.
the stock 5532 are very nice opamp as well for audio.


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

Mic, Look forward to seeing you this weekend hope all is well !


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> Off the meds again I see. You really should get help with that bipolar or whatever makes you so pissed about something you're not a part of at someone you've never met. Don't worry about what I do, don't take your ****ty personal life out on me. I didn't take everything from you. Car audio is at the bottom of my list at the moment.


Who's bipolar? It's ludicrous that this has dragged on as long as it has. You ALWAYS have a "reason" why you couldn't send it out. I'm not pissed at all. I called it ******** because that's what it is. You're all excuses. 

Why do you think anyone that ever questions you has personal life problems? I think you might need to take a good look in the mirror there, Pot.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Who's bipolar? It's ludicrous that this has dragged on as long as it has. You ALWAYS have a "reason" why you couldn't send it out. I'm not pissed at all. I called it ******** because that's what it is. You're all excuses.
> 
> Why do you think anyone that ever questions you has personal life problems? I think you might need to take a good look in the mirror there, Pot.


I hope you see the post above with the two cold weather popping PS8s. So you can keep your BS. Again, I have enough going on that car audio just isn't important right now. I didn't bring this thread up again, someone else did. You're always angry. Don't worry about what I do, worry about your own life.


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## laroid (Jan 9, 2013)

Arc Audio has a video of the PS8 cold weather testing. here is a link. Below 0 degrees and performs fine. Popping could be from the amp turn on delay in settings. even after a software update this setting may require adjustment to allow amps and other electronics a delayed turn on. The video link allowed me to view it without being a facebook member. Hope this helps!

Videos Posted by Arc Audio | Facebook


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I hope you see the post above with the two cold weather popping PS8s. So you can keep your BS. Again, I have enough going on that car audio just isn't important right now. I didn't bring this thread up again, someone else did. You're always angry. Don't worry about what I do, worry about your own life.


I'm not angry. I question people that whine about **** but never want to do anything to fix their problems. It's always "woe is me".


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Let's get this back out of the ditch and between the lines...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I'm not angry. I question people that whine about **** but never want to do anything to fix their problems. It's always "woe is me".


Are you kidding? I have not brought this thread up in months. I've admitted that I just don't care enough to take the time to send it in right now. I have other priorities. It is a problem with the processor, others have had the same problem in this very thread and you should see my PMs of people with the issue that don't want to post. I haven't complained about it, I just don't care about it right now. You hate your life and you look for any excuse to pick a fight for no reason with someone who's halfway across the country. We all know why. Go back under your rock.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Syracuse Customs said:


> We had 2 units with Cold Weather Popping. We contacted Fred and we sent the 1st unit out around the end of November. I believe he used ours as a guinea pig it might even be the one in the video. Anyway we received it back last week and it works flawless in cold weather. We also performed an OP amp upgrade


Interesting. Any idea what they did to it? If it wasn't a customer's, a picture of the PCB would help....
I'm guessing the issue has been resolved for new units, and old units are being fixed as part of the warranty. That's a good sign.
The fact that they fixed yours and sent it back before posting the video means they acknowledged the issue, yet they say there is nothing wrong with the units? Hmm.

On another token, some guy in Europe got ahold of a PS8 and put it on a test bench. He doesn't speak English, unfortunately, and I only got his comments on the results, not the actual measurements. He will be sending me pictures of the results a some point, though, so I can post them along with a translation of his interpretation.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Wow, how do I get these kinds of fanboys?


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

oca123 said:


> Interesting. Any idea what they did to it? If it wasn't a customer's, a picture of the PCB would help....
> I'm guessing the issue has been resolved for new units, and old units are being fixed as part of the warranty. That's a good sign.
> The fact that they fixed yours and sent it back before posting the video means they acknowledged the issue, yet they say there is nothing wrong with the units? Hmm.
> 
> On another token, some guy in Europe got ahold of a PS8 and put it on a test bench. He doesn't speak English, unfortunately, and I only got his comments on the results, not the actual measurements. He will be sending me pictures of the results a some point, though, so I can post them along with a translation of his interpretation.


I spoke with the repair tech and the repairs where completely unrelated on the 2 units. The fact of the matter is the repairs are unrelated. They are standing behind the product and correcting it !



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Wow, how do I get these kinds of fanboys?


Andy .... Was that aimed for me ? I can tell you exactly how to create loyal dealers :laugh:


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## tommybuiltinc (Mar 20, 2008)

Almost 15 years of being an installer and learning how to use my ears to make vehicles sound good for my customers/friends and what have i learned? 

That the ARC AUDIO PS8 is the finest Audio Tool i have ever ever had my hands and ears on. It has completly changed the way my personal vehicle sounds. The Team at Arc Audio has always been there to anwser any questions or concerns that i have had. They really are a company who cares about this Car Audio Lifestyle. Yes i call it a Lifestyle. 

I have been dealing with Arc Audio for about 4 years now and If there was ever an issue with any product they fix it. END OF STORY. 

Arc Audio has the best team of people i have ever worked with. There Product knowlegde and Tech support to me is priceless. So dont hesitate to call and ask about your issue. They will make it right


I have installed and tuned with Rockford 360.2 -Audison BIT one- Helix Pdsp- and now the ARC AUDIO PS8. 

ALL I CAN SAY IS THANK YOU ARC AUDIO FOR PUTTING A SMILE ON MY FACE EVERYTIME I GET INTO MY CAR.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

So the PS-8 does, in fact, have an issue with popping.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> So the PS-8 does, in fact, have an issue with popping.


yes-How many of them I can't say- However I know the first one to go to arc for the issue was tom's and it came back and seems to be working flawless from then on.

And with the op amp upgrade it makes my se's sound even better.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

cajunner said:


> pay for an op amp upgrade and it'll come back fixed?
> 
> that's like a surcharge on a warranty repair, but if it saves 1.5K in speaker kills it's probably best to send it in.


I've got to get mine sent out... I know I keep saying that but sooner or later my $1,900 (retail) tweeters are going to be blown when I forget to unplug it or warm it up. I decided to listen to the stereo today. 2 minutes with the fiancee's old pink hairdryer that I keep in the trunk before starting the car and I was ready to go lol. Money is a bit tight for the next two days. Maybe Monday.


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

cajunner said:


> pay for an op amp upgrade and it'll come back fixed?
> 
> that's like a surcharge on a warranty repair, but if it saves 1.5K in speaker kills it's probably best to send it in.


I performed the Op Amp upgrade .... ARC did not charge me for anything cause they stand behind there products !


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> yes-How many of them I can't say- However I know the first one to go to arc for the issue was tom's and it came back and seems to be working flawless from then on.
> 
> And with the op amp upgrade it makes my se's sound even better.


Brian .... not exactly confirmed issue. Unrelated repairs on 2 units does not equal a confirmed issue. Fact of the matter is ARC is standing behind the product !

I want to bring up a point BuickGN purchased his PS8 from OCA123. OCA123 did do some premature evasive testing on the unit which led to phone calls to ARC to essentially unbrick the unit. So now we have an entire thread bashing a respected manufacturer who poured there heart and soul into what I feel is the best processor on the market. Over a USED processor that somebody may have damaged and passed it on to another user. Now ARC was willing to fix for OCA123 and now BuickGN. But somehow the lets Crucify the next best processor assault continues. We have seen it with the Audison Bitone, JBL MS-8, Rockford 360.3 etc... If we sound quality enthusiasts want to continue to see manufactures bring high quality products to market these threads will make them hesitant to even attempt anything !


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I doubt a little criticism we'll stop production of anything.
Does anyone know if the PS8s coming of the line today have the op amp upgrade already done?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I doubt a little criticism we'll stop production of anything.
> Does anyone know if the PS8s coming of the line today have the op amp upgrade already done?
> 
> 
> ...


all PS8 come with opamp sockets so u can roll your own standard dip8 opamps into it. doing so voids warranty, but the option is there for SQ enthusiasts.


----------



## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I doubt a little criticism we'll stop production of anything.
> Does anyone know if the PS8s coming of the line today have the op amp upgrade already done?
> 
> 
> ...


People make buying decisions based off what they read on the internet and if us enthusiast say negative things about a product people will not buy them simple as that.

They come standard with the 5532 we opted for the 4562 based on the fact they mesh well the the SE amps. However different op amp may be better suited for your setup or amplifiers. Swapping them is super simple and straight forward.


----------



## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

cajunner said:


> 5532 is considered a fine op amp for audio
> 
> there's a bunch of 'em out there, though
> 
> I'd like to see a reputable company's mark on 'em instead of generic Chinese 5532 chips


Texas Instruments 5532 standard


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Syracuse Customs said:


> Brian .... not exactly confirmed issue. Unrelated repairs on 2 units does not equal a confirmed issue. Fact of the matter is ARC is standing behind the product !
> 
> I want to bring up a point BuickGN purchased his PS8 from OCA123. OCA123 did do some premature evasive testing on the unit which led to phone calls to ARC to essentially unbrick the unit. So now we have an entire thread bashing a respected manufacturer who poured there heart and soul into what I feel is the best processor on the market. Over a USED processor that somebody may have damaged and passed it on to another user. Now ARC was willing to fix for OCA123 and now BuickGN. But somehow the lets Crucify the next best processor assault continues. We have seen it with the Audison Bitone, JBL MS-8, Rockford 360.3 etc... If we sound quality enthusiasts want to continue to see manufactures bring high quality products to market these threads will make them hesitant to even attempt anything !


Whoa! Mine was bought brand new through a dealer. Get your facts straight before you start talking ****. Mine has never been altered in any way. How did you manage to come up with that story?


----------



## DevilSun (Oct 25, 2012)

Syracuse Customs said:


> I want to bring up a point BuickGN purchased his PS8 from OCA123


To be clear, I bought oca123's PS8 ... not BuickGN. And originally oca123's problem with the PS8 stemmed solely from his tablet PC he was trying to use which wouldn't connect to it if I recall correctly. I unfortunately cannot comment on the PS8 from him yet as I havent been able to get it installed yet (had hand surgery a few weeks back) but I have fired it up and thrown a few baseline setting tunes on it without a problem. I do wish I could have had it in and working before my hand surgery as it's been quite cold here and it would have been nice to test it out under these colder than normal conditions.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I doubt a little criticism we'll stop production of anything.
> Does anyone know if the PS8s coming of the line today have the op amp upgrade already done?
> 
> 
> ...


There is no factory op amp upgrade. No parts have been changed or modified since production started. Any and all op amp upgrades are done by the consumer.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

LOL this is great. 


I like lamp......

OCA123- I am very interested to see the bench results from the European gentleman.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Whoa! Mine was bought brand new through a dealer. Get your facts straight before you start talking ****. Mine has never been altered in any way. How did you manage to come up with that story?



He_ probably _was told by a little loud mouthed birdy....


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Syracuse Customs said:


> People make buying decisions based off what they read on the internet and if us enthusiast say negative things about a product people will not buy them simple as that.


I think the source needs considered, atleast it is when I read something.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

So lemme get this straight? An OP AMP was causing this popping. Because man, I have pulled every op-amp ever made out of a near zero degree (F) box truck into a humid, hot venue and have yet to discover this popping issue, condensation and all.


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

DevilSun said:


> To be clear, I bought oca123's PS8 ... not BuickGN. And originally oca123's problem with the PS8 stemmed solely from his tablet PC he was trying to use which wouldn't connect to it if I recall correctly. I unfortunately cannot comment on the PS8 from him yet as I havent been able to get it installed yet (had hand surgery a few weeks back) but I have fired it up and thrown a few baseline setting tunes on it without a problem. I do wish I could have had it in and working before my hand surgery as it's been quite cold here and it would have been nice to test it out under these colder than normal conditions.


I stand corrected. buickgn sorry ! however oca123 did alot more than that i've got the pm's. So now the world waits for a guy in France to test a product before they purchase one. I'm I the only person using a PS8 and loving it ?


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Syracuse Customs said:


> Andy .... Was that aimed for me ? I can tell you exactly how to create loyal dealers :laugh:


It wasn't really aimed and it wasn't meant to be derrogatory. Every brand needs enthusiasts to believe...and I understand that creating brand loyalty takes more than a Product Manager answering questions and facilitating returns of defective or destroyed products. 

As a matter of fact, I started this career in retail as an installer and I know the value of great products, paying attention to retail partners, providing help and most importantly, providing high-quality products and standing behind them.

It takes a village, not one guy.


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Syracuse Customs said:


> So now the world waits for a guy in France to test a product before they purchase one. I'm I the only person using a PS8 and loving it ?


Where do you come up with your information? The world isnt waiting. The guy got a hold of one, tested it to verify all claims were true, and he is going to show his findings. 

I think the ole' two ears (eyes in this case) one mouth adage fits here.

Also you upgraded the opamps then sent it in? Or was the opamp upgrade done after you sent it in?


----------



## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

From the "facts" on this forum .... Lol !


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Andy would have been nailed to the cross...and was/has been hung up there. But the PS8 guys, even ones who haven't used the processor are fanantical in the opposite spin way with this processor.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Mic10is said:


> all PS8 come with opamp sockets so u can roll your own standard dip8 opamps into it. doing so voids warranty, but the option is there for SQ enthusiasts.


True to a point. From the ARCforum :



> beuase of the research we (ARC) can now have an approved device list to include with the PS8 that we will approve for swaps without violating the warranty etc.



However the list wasnt included with my PS8 nor 3 others I saw unpackaged. Maybe it is included in the manual?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And I haven't seen anyone from Arc get on here to help, but Andy has bent over backwards to help with his product...offering help at his house too.

I think that was what he was getting at.


----------



## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> It wasn't really aimed and it wasn't meant to be derrogatory. Every brand needs enthusiasts to believe...and I understand that creating brand loyalty takes more than a Product Manager answering questions and facilitating returns of defective or destroyed products.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I started this career in retail as an installer and I know the value of great products, paying attention to retail partners, providing help and most importantly, providing high-quality products and standing behind them.
> 
> It takes a village, not one guy.


I agree ... If you have been nailed to the cross Andy then I'm gonna get burned on it to ! I'm not gonna let anybody down talk this product like has happened in the past with all these processors. I've used and installed personally all of them every single one. This is the best one. I don't have 5000 posts because i actually work on cars every day and install new products on a daily basis. i've been in this industry since i was 15 years old. Over 18 years of installing and sales. I love this industry ! I love high end equipment even more ! its hard for me to sit here and watch as so many products being bashed on this forum by guys who don't have any experience. The fact is the products are typically great and the companies always stand behind them. I rarely ever post on this forum because you cannot speak your mind without being attacked for it.

So please check my grammar. Check my facts Tell me I don't know anything trash my integrity I don't care. I speak from the heart I'm not trying to win an essay contest. And i have not had any energy drinks yet this morning I'm typing on a iPhone which we all know is junk ! Thanks for listening I'm done !


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

pat pat


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> And I haven't seen anyone from Arc get on here to help, but Andy has bent over backwards to help with his product...offering help at his house too.
> 
> I think that was what he was getting at.


That guy goes above and beyond to help and it's greatly appreciated throughout our community. Arc has great in-house customer service but It would be nice for them to appoint someone to support their products in the same way. One would think it would pay for itself in the long run.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Syracuse Customs said:


> I'm I the only person using a PS8 and loving it ?


Nope. I've got my hooked up to the bench in my garage and will be posting a review when I am able to. It'll be in English. I don't speak French.


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

Agreed about the help provided by Andy on the MS-8. His attendance on this site was a major reason for me in going with the MS-8, and staying with it since. I cant\wont speak to the PS-8 as I havent used one (and cant say as I feel the need). I do like the Arc amps and run one. Without bashing Arc or its products, it would be awesome to have a presence of sort on this forum. I cant imagine too many places where an Audio company can get as much "visibility" in its market as on web sites like this one.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

falstaff said:


> True to a point. From the ARCforum :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Texas Instruments 5532
National Semiconductor LME49720
Burr Brown OPA2134
Texas Instruments 5532
National Semiconductor LM4562
Burr Brown OPA2604

Pretty much any DIP8 opamp will be interchangable. PS8 has a pretty big power supply so its should be capable of supporting just about any opamp


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> It'll be in English. I don't speak French.


I would offer my services to translate it, but OCA123 says my french is "hill-billy french"


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

IBcivic said:


> I would offer my services to translate it, but OCA123 says my french is "hill-billy french"


Are you a french model? Maybe you played one on TV?



bikinpunk said:


> Nope. I've got my hooked up to the bench in my garage and will be posting a review when I am able to. It'll be in English. I don't speak French.


 Great! what will you be testing? Thanks


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Mic10is said:


> Texas Instruments 5532
> National Semiconductor LME49720
> Burr Brown OPA2134
> Texas Instruments 5532
> ...


Thanks, I knew where to find it. Ive got some waiting to be installed in my PS8. I also wanted to clear up any misconceptions about warranty.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> And I haven't seen anyone from Arc get on here to help, but Andy has bent over backwards to help with his product...offering help at his house too.
> 
> I think that was what he was getting at.


Fred stopped coming here because every time he does he gets **** on
and the conversation always turns to "you're not a REAL manufacturer". 

Would you keep coming here and dealing with that when you're tying to help?


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

quality_sound said:


> Fred stopped coming here because every time he does he gets **** on
> and the conversation always turns to "you're not a REAL manufacturer".
> 
> Would you keep coming here and dealing with that when you're tying to help?


Manville and Andy have taken WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more **** than Fred could ever claim to have taken. And they're still here.

And passing off re-badged drivers as ground breaking products and marking 'em up 300% is going to get your ******* torn everytime.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

falstaff said:


> Are you a french model? Maybe you played one on TV?


French SUMO-wrestler


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Fred stopped coming here because every time he does he gets **** on
> and the conversation always turns to "you're not a REAL manufacturer".
> 
> Would you keep coming here and dealing with that when you're tying to help?


Yes. :laugh:


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yes. :laugh:


You instigator.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I would.

But I do taxes this time of the year and get roasted on a daily basis over why the IRS hasn't either gotten their money to the people on time (last year) and why we have to wait until the 30th for them to accept the returns.

So yeah, I would go to help people that appreciate it though I have to wade through the sea of idiots and assholes.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Wowoww slow down here.
I bought my PS8 new. I had some issues initially getting it to boot. This was BEFORE connecting the unit to a computer. So, right out of the box, the unit would not boot.
Next, it wouldn't connect to the computer. I eventually tracked it down to a USB to serial driver issue on my tablet PC. I had another USB->serial driver, which had been used with a bunch of magstripe reader/writers, taking up a bunch of COM ports.

I got the unit in flash mode and after attempting to flash its firmware repeatedly, eventually, it "woke up" and started working. No issues after that. No complaints on sound quality, either. I stated that the only reason I sold the PS8, was because without a remote and the ability to attenuate the volume coming from a digital/optical source, I was taking a huge gamble with my speakers.
I did poke around the software, and found some things that really should not be included at all in production software that is available for download.

I also took a picture of the PCB, and noticed that the "commercial" version of the chips was being used. While that may cause a small percentage of units to have issues in very cold weather, generally, commercial chips are fine in an automotive environment. In fact, "commercial" and "automotive" chips are the SAME chips, except the automotive ones are tested and confirmed to be stable across a broader range of temperature. Additionally, in this particular case, the Automotive version of the DSP runs at a slower clock speed.
If ARC AUDIO had decided to use the Automotive version of the chip, we might still be waiting for the PS8. In fact, it looks like their intent was to use that version, and overclock it, but high lead times and low stock from franchised distributors of the Cirrus chips, meant they went with the Commercial version.

Also, ARC Audio's support is VERY nice. They do stand behind their product. I got my PS8 on a Friday night, but when I called in on Monday morning, they issued me a RMA number right away. However, I tried to flash the unit before shipping it out, and it started working.

I sold my unit to DevilSun. BuickGN bought his from a reseller, brand new.

So let's get this straight:



Syracuse Customs said:


> I want to bring up a point BuickGN purchased his PS8 from OCA123.


No, he bought his unit from a reseller, brand new



Syracuse Customs said:


> OCA123 did do some premature evasive testing on the unit which led to phone calls to ARC to essentially unbrick the unit.


 The only premature thing here, is your allegations. The unit would not boot up out of the box. So I made ONE phone call to Arc Audio, and they suggested I return the unit. Eventually, after flashing it several times, it booted up. So ARC did not unbrick the unit, and the unit was not bricked as a result of my "testing."
FIY, the only "testing" I did that isn't what a normal user would do, is hook up an oscilloscope to the outputs of the PS8, and measure Vrms with no load. And FIY, I never mentionned this, but with a 1khz test tone @ 0db into its optical input, the PS8's output voltage varied by as much as 6db between its different outputs. I didn't mention it, after all tuning is done by ear, so its a non issue. Plus, I was told that ARC has addressed the issue since then. Also, I did not take pictures of the oscilloscope, so I was not going to post about it without some kind of evidence to back it up... but to hell with it.




Syracuse Customs said:


> So now we have an entire thread bashing a respected manufacturer who poured there heart and soul into what I feel is the best processor on the market.


This is the internet. When a product/service does not have a bashing thread, it's either fake, a scam, or your search results are being hijacked by some spyware. 




> Over a USED processor that somebody may have damaged and passed it on to another user. Now ARC was willing to fix for OCA123 and now BuickGN.


Over a NEW processor bought for MSRP from an authorized dealer.
As to the unit that was in my posession, the only damage I did to the processor was kind of strip the screws from the acrylic cover, and another member has it and he has not posted about it, but as far as I'm concerned, there was nothing wrong with the unit when I sold it.


And for the record, it was only AFTER I sold the unit that I unlocked the hidden menus in the PS8's software. So DevilSun, who has not installed the unit yet, can be assured that nothing strange was done to this unit that wouldn't be expected from a normal user, EXCEPT:
1) Taking out the PCB and snapping pictures of it
2) Hooking up a scope to its outputs



Finally, I don't see ANYWHERE any indication of whether the findings of the bench testing done in France were negative, or positive. I only indicated that someone had tested the unit, but I will refrain from posting any comments until there are graphs to back it up.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't get why/how JBL poured their heart and soul into the their processor (which was under development for many more years than the PS8) that is is ok to roast them while the Global Product Manager is here catching the heat helping any and everyone...but you aren't going to stand by and let someone say something negative (but true) about the Arc processor with no factory support on here.

Coming from using proaudio processors...I guess I am still missing what makes this processor so magical and untouchable. And I like Arc, the people are great...I've personally have known Fred for what, 10 years now?


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> I don't get why/how JBL poured their heart and soul into the their processor (which was under development for many more years than the PS8) that is is ok to roast them while the Global Product Manager is here catching the heat helping any and everyone...but you aren't going to stand by and let someone say something negative (but true) about the Arc processor with no factory support on here.
> 
> Coming from using proaudio processors...I guess I am still missing what makes this processor so magical and untouchable. And I like Arc, the people are great...I've personally have known Fred for what, 10 years now?


100% agree, and I too have high expectations, having used pro audio processors as well.

Addendum: I would like to add that if I ran Arc Audio, I wouldn't be on these forums either... **** that. Andy is a masochist, and his relentlessness borders on insanity.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

[double post]


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

oca123 said:


> Addendum: I would like to add that if I ran Arc Audio, I wouldn't be on these forums either... **** that. Andy is a masochist, and his relentlessness borders on insanity.


Dude, you have no idea. This forum is like a walk in the park...


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> Nope. I've got my hooked up to the bench in my garage and will be posting a review when I am able to. It'll be in English. I don't speak French.


some teaser testing...

Time delay testing to see just how accurate the displayed T/A is. Dead on to what I typed in.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

and another teaser...

EQ settings comparison. The values I typed in on the PS8 were exactly what was measured... to the 100th of a decimal. Pretty nice. 












THD comparison varying the input level. Keep in mind this is in percentage, and 0.025% is 72dB down from the fundamental...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Damn...


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> and another teaser...
> 
> EQ settings comparison. The values I typed in on the PS8 were exactly what was measured... to the 100th of a decimal. Pretty nice.
> 
> ...


 Why would you expect anything different? Delay resolution is determined by sample rate (1-sample is the minimum amount of delay) and the rest are simple IIR filters where the biquad coefficients are calculated using your entry. If there's no limit to the number of decimal places you can enter, then it'll be pretty difficult to figure out where the coefficients are rounded. Digital EQs are different than analog EQs, especially when they operate like a calculator and you have all the keys exposed for input. In Analog EQs, the resolution is often much poorer and filters interact with one another to create unintended results. For an example of this, go grab a 31-band EQ (you can probably do this with most digital EQs too) and boost all the available frequencies by 6dB. Then, measure the output. What you'll probably expect to see is a graph where the frequency response has been raised evenly by 6dB across the spectrum. What you'll probably see is something VERY different. 

Congratulations to Fred and the guys. Developing these kinds of products isn't simple and the testing that's required to make sure things don't crash under any of the millions and billions of button-press combinations in the several interations of the state machine is a huge piece of work. Looks like a nice piece of gear. 

Kudos to the Arc guys for providing what looks like really high resolution EQ tools. Now it's up to users to be successful. The trick in EQ-ing isn't about being able to reduce a peak with a Q of 100, it's about interpreting your measurement according to what's audible and detemining the best way to correct.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

The THD looks great.
I would be very surprised if the t/a was off considering this is a digital signal processor. I would also be surprised if EQ cuts/boosts were off.
Could you measure all 8 channels at 0db using a 1khz tone, to see how close they are matched?
Also, if you have the time, a confirmation of the signal to noise ratio at 0db (8vrms) would be great.

Finally, on the PAS review, the graph for crosstalk vs frequency starts at 600Hz, while every other measurement is shown from 20hz - See here, it's on the last page
I have no idea if your setup allows you to measure this, but if it does, I would love to see what's below 600Hz.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Why would you expect anything different? .


I didn't. The honest answer is because I know some out there may question the accuracy. I've seen it implied about other DSPs and many have referenced a test on the alpine h701 as evidence alpine didn't get it right. So my measurements are for nothing more than to stop a fire before it starts.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> The THD looks great.
> I would be very surprised if the t/a was off considering this is a digital signal processor. I would also be surprised if EQ cuts/boosts were off.
> Could you measure all 8 channels at 0db using a 1khz tone, to see how close they are matched?


I swept all channels for channel to channel matching purposes last night but didn't post the results because there's nothing to "see". All channels measured the exact same. If I posted that all anyone would see is a single line. Lol.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> I didn't. The honest answer is because I know some out there may question the accuracy. I've seen it implied about other DSPs and many have referenced a test on the alpine h701 as evidence alpine didn't get it right. So my measurements are for nothing more than to stop a fire before it starts.


Ah. Wasn't aware about the Alpine.



bikinpunk said:


> I swept all channels for channel to channel matching purposes last night but didn't post the results because there's nothing to "see". All channels measured the exact same. If I posted that all anyone would see is a single line. Lol.


Hmm. I'm pretty sure mine didn't, but since I didn't really pay much attention to it, didn't keep a record, and don't have a PS8 anymore, well, as Eviling says, it didnt happen.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> Hmm. I'm pretty sure mine didn't, but since I didn't really pay much attention to it, didn't keep a record, and don't have a PS8 anymore, well, as Eviling says, it didnt happen.


Yea, I measured all the outputs with a swept sine for FR deviation. None at all on any channel. I then split out the channel assignments and sent 100% of the left input to channels 1, 3, and 5, then 0.5*L that to channel 7. This simulates the standard use for left tweeter, midrange, midbass and sub. All measured exactly as they should and the exact same (except ch7 was cut in half as it should be).


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't want to mention this too much on this thread as it may be misinterpreted by some people. I do recall all channels were all pass and no attenuation or boost, yet I had different voltages across all 8 outputs, though all of them hovered around 8Vrms. It doesn't matter.
Now how about that sub 600Hz crosstalk vs frequency measurement


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I don't have the means to do crosstalk with this setup. I'd have to go through some trouble to provide that and honestly don't see the point. My goal wasn't to provide entire signal analysis. More so to provide some basic 'fact check' measurements. The review will focus on features rather than specs. If I had access to an audio precision unit, I'd be all over it, though. 


Edit: Heck, I'll see if I can dig up some cables to do crosstalk... no promises, though. I'm not about to start making cables just for that. lol.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> I don't have the means to do crosstalk with this setup. I'd have to go through some trouble to provide that and honestly don't see the point. My goal wasn't to provide entire signal analysis. More so to provide some basic 'fact check' measurements. The review will focus on features rather than specs. If I had access to an audio precision unit, I'd be all over it, though.
> 
> 
> Edit: Heck, I'll see if I can dig up some cables to do crosstalk... no promises, though. I'm not about to start making cables just for that. lol.


I'm curious as to why the marketing broch... i mean pasmag review only shows 600Hz and up. Maybe it's because it's standard for this kind of test, to be honest, I wouldn't know.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Wait a second, what kind of cable? Don't you just feed one channel signal, and measure the other ones?
I can see how that would work for 2 channel stereo devices, but I don't know what the methodology would be when there are 8 channels, and since I didn't sleep last night, I couldn't figure it out if my life depended on it.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Interesting stuff Oca123 and Bikinpunk


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

I can't imagine why anyone would need to measure crosstalk for a car audio product. There's so much acoustic crosstalk that if the product measured better than -12dB no one would ever hear the difference. 

Now, if an upmixer was involved, better crosstalk on the input might be important.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I was looking at an audio analyzer once. I remember that it was meant to run a set of basic tests on an audio device (I think it was meant for testing DACs, but can't confirm, because it was part of a lot of junk that came from a failed company and half of the stuff that came with it was missing)
Anyway, I recall the following tests:
- Frequency response
- SnR
- Phase
- Crosstalk
- Gain
- THD

There might have been more, but I can't remember. Crosstalk was definitely one of them. I know that for sure, because I made a joke about crossdressing that was met with an awkward silence.

Anyway, aside from the fact that the pasmag graph starts at 600Hz which seems odd to me, I have another reason for asking Erin to test it if he has the time.


Edit: I missed the word "Acoustic" in Andy's post, and therefore I missed the point.
Agreed, there is a lot of crosstalk in a car's cabin. What if there was one or several 10db bumps in the crosstalk vs frequency graph below 600Hz? Would that be audible?


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> I can't imagine why anyone would need to measure crosstalk for a car audio product. There's so much acoustic crosstalk that if the product measured better than -12dB no one would ever hear the difference.
> 
> Now, if an upmixer was involved, better crosstalk on the input might be important.


I can't even find crosstalk specs on any of the major home audio mag measurements. Seems to me the car audio publishers are catering to the latest trendy spec, IE damping factor part two.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe there was a blank space that needed to be filled in the pasmag marketing bro.. i mean review.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> Anyway, aside from the fact that the pasmag graph starts at 600Hz which seems odd to me, I have another reason for asking Erin to test it if he has the time.



No problems as far as I can tell. I fed 1v and then 4v to the inputs and obtained the following results. I smoothed the results to 1/24 octave because 1/99 is just too high to read. Both 1v and 4v testing yielded nearly the exact same results; even when overlaid on top of each other the difference is negligible in every sense of the word.

After all that, I don't see anything here to support the notion of crazy things happening below 600hz. In fact, the largest separation is above 2khz, and averages about 2dB delta between left and right, with the largest shift being approximately 3.7dB. Below this point, the crosstalk measurements are nearly dead even from side to side. And, yes, I did test each set of outputs. I used the input mixer to assign the left signal input to channels 1, 3, 5 and 7 and the right input was assigned to channels 2, 4, 6 and 8. 

1v:












4v:












After all this, I'm not seeing anything that meets the claims of bad channel voltage deviation or poor crosstalk. As far as I'm concerned, any claims about poor signal performance of the PS8 are unwarranted and false without actual proof (ie: not just a hunch). IOW, if someone says that it's bad, they'll need to *prove it* to me or send me theirs to test. I've done my fair share here so hopefully it will qualm the naysayers.

Side Note: If someone wants to nitpick the 2dB delta above 2khz, keep in mind what Andy said... and furthermore, keep in mind the wavelength you're talking here. You have more issues in comb filtering off your pillar than you do this level in crosstalk. I've measured other DSPs with HUGE shifts in crosstalk performance on the lower end, so IMHO.. and not being an EE, the measurements of the PS8 are excellent.



FWIW, I ordered a set of the LM4562 opamps just for the heck of it. For $19 shipped for 5 (I ordered one extra just in case), it'll be a neat exercise in measurement. Maybe there's a way to legitimize the claims that it's a superior opamp. But, maybe not.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> No problems as far as I can tell. I fed 1v and then 4v to the inputs and obtained the following results. I smoothed the results to 1/24 octave because 1/99 is just too high to read. Both 1v and 4v testing yielded nearly the exact same results; even when overlaid on top of each other the difference is negligible in every sense of the word.
> 
> After all that, I don't see anything here to support the notion of crazy things happening below 600hz. In fact, the largest separation is above 2khz, and averages about 2dB delta between left and right, with the largest shift being approximately 3.7dB. Below this point, the crosstalk measurements are nearly dead even from side to side. And, yes, I did test each set of outputs. I used the input mixer to assign the left signal input to channels 1, 3, 5 and 7 and the right input was assigned to channels 2, 4, 6 and 8.
> 
> ...


Any chance you could post a thread showing the installation process of the opamps on they arrive?
That would be useful to all of us that like to do things ourselves.
Here's hoping there's no soldering involved.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Any chance you could post a thread showing the installation process of the opamps on they arrive?
> That would be useful to all of us that like to do things ourselves.
> Here's hoping there's no soldering involved.
> 
> ...


Of course dude. 

I planned to do that in my review. I plan to talk to Fred about it just to make sure I do it right and I can cover anything important.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Alright. Now don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.

These two French guys bench tested the PS8. One of them is an old school car audio guy, who tuned some US IASCA winning cars. The other one is a signal processing guru who has specialized in car audio for 30 years, developed car audio processors as early as 1987 (I was 2 years old then) and apparently, is the single individual holding the most patents in the field of car audio.
I don't recall what equipment was used to bench test the device, but IIRC they used 2 dedicated devices, and one PC-based rig, to cross-check their findings.
They found mismatched outputs, and PSU issues which caused two bumps - 8db @ 250Hz and 10db @ 400Hz.
Since your unit works fine, their unit is probably one of a very few that are faulty. I was also told that they would be making a video or typing up some kind of document to show their findings along with their supporting evidence.

And before anyone asks, yes, they have been in touch with Arc. I venture to guess that they would already have a new working unit if they had been in the US, since Arc has excellent after-sales service.

My personal opinion in all of this? The PS8 is probably the finest processor out there for hardcore tuners. All it needs is a goddamn remote. The 3sixty.3 comes close but the software is buggy and it doesnt allow as much flexibility as the PS8.
For most users, the MS8 is still the shiznit... in fact, my system was far more functional when I had the MS8, which was my first processor. Too bad it's broken (I think the female 2.5mm connector on the PCB is at fault, not sure) or I would probably be using it.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

oca123 said:


> My personal opinion in all of this? The PS8 is probably the finest processor out there for hardcore tuners. *All it needs is a goddamn remote.* The 3sixty.3 comes close but the software is buggy and it doesnt allow as much flexibility as the PS8.


^That is the only reason I don't have a PS8 in my car(s). I know that I've said it before, but for me, it's a $900 brick without the remote. Do all of the Arc team members with a PS8 have the remote, or what are they doing to work around this?

Please Arc, get the remote on the market ASAP (and make it right).

Thanks Pascal and Erin for all of your testing and information. It's greatly appreciated. Looking forward to seeing more soon.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> For an example of this, go grab a 31-band EQ (you can probably do this with most digital EQs too) and boost all the available frequencies by 6dB. Then, measure the output. What you'll probably expect to see is a graph where the frequency response has been raised evenly by 6dB across the spectrum. What you'll probably see is something VERY different.


this reminded me of a test I did with the 80prs' 16-band EQ... copy/paste from a post I made a while back:


> BUT getting 5v out is nearly impossible.
> Here's why:
> Using a 0dB 1khz tone, the preout voltage with all settings to flat (no eq, no boost), the output voltage measures about 1.2v rms.
> If I increase the source level volume by 4, the maximum, the output voltage gets to around 3v.
> If I then increase all the eq bands +2dB, I can get to about 4.5v but the frequency response is a *jigsaw *+1/-1dB where without the +2dB it's flat.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> Thanks Pascal and Erin for all of your testing and information. It's greatly appreciated. Looking forward to seeing more soon.


I didn't do anything. Credit goes to Erin.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Great information. Thanks guys. If nothing else your a great translator


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

-80 dB. There's probably more crosstalk at low frequencies in the headand or the cord of a pair of headphones.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> this reminded me of a test I did with the 80prs' 16-band EQ... copy/paste from a post I made a while back:


And this isn't a "design flaw" this is a misunderstanding about the way this stuff works. Unfortunately, these kinds of misunderstandings result in serious difficulties when people attempt to use these things. FWIW, the 31-band EQ in MS-8 adjusts adjacent bands when you adjust so that what you'll see when you boost them all by 6dB more closely resembles a straight line at +6dB. 

Now, if you develop a signal processor and include a parametric EQ and not a graphic, you can eliminate this kind of a misunderstanding, but the tool is MUCH more difficult to use and much more powerful.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Yesterday or the day before, I received a bunch of images, and some documents from the guys who bench tested the unit. I have not gone over any of them yet. I think they also requested that I get in touch with them before posting any of it online, so it will be a few days.
I have to admit that even with my BitOne, I ended up with very little EQ settings.... simply because I just never could take the time to properly tune. It is likely that if I had kept the PS8, I would have seen very little added value over the BitOne, since I probably would have used a little bit of the P-EQ... if I even got around to tuning it.
Every processor that I've had, mainly ended up being used as a crossover, and I never really used that much EQ in my car.
And I started missing the MS8. Sure, I couldn't tweak individual channels, but things sounded pretty damn good very fast.
I wonder if JBL is planning another car audio processor


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> Yesterday or the day before, I received a bunch of images, and some documents from the guys who bench tested the unit. I have not gone over any of them yet. I think they also requested that I get in touch with them before posting any of it online, so it will be a few days.


why not just ask them to post it up themselves and be done with trying to speak for someone else or try to imply someone has readings that better match a faulty unit. Or have them contact me (hardisj at gmail dot com) and I'll post their results. 

At this point, I don't know any other way to take your input other than trying to cast a bad shadow over this unit because everything you've said has had a negative connotation to it. First it was the post about the temp ratings of the chip which got in to Matt's head and resulted in this thread (no offense, Matt). Then it was this French review that has yet to bear any fruit, then it was the notion that PAS mag has something to hide by providing only crosstalk measurements >600hz which I thought I had helped debunk. Now it's back to the French post after I provided data showing how mine is about as good a performer as one could hope for. So, again, I'm not trying to be a d-bag to you but you've seemed to throw a lot of stuff out there in a way that seems like you're trying to make the ps8 look like it's got bad written all over it and haven't done anything to really supply any evidence to back up these nebulous notions. I provided you specifically with data so you'd not fret but it doesn't seem to have made a dent. 

I measured my unit and provided results... everything looks just fine on my end. Maybe some funky software things that I've yet to uncover but I've had mine on the bench for a week now, tested every input and output, listened to each channel (I was listening to 4 channel stereo last night and playing with the input mixer to create some weird stuff) and I've not had anything weird show up. It's been plugged in on the bench for 48 hours at a time and no issues. I measured the temp in the garage a few nights ago at 30F (I do this when measuring drivers; and yes, my rental SUCKS) while I was using the unit as a crossover to see how highpassing a driver affects its HD and IMD results (I am doing a 'study' of sorts for my site).. no issues here. No turn on pops. No buzzing, no noise, no shrieks, no dieing and coming back on, no devils popping up and prodding me, no monkeys with wings picking me and my buddies up and heading toward the witch's castle... nothing. 

So, back to this conglomerate of French testers; if their data shows anything wrong they either need to a) send it back to Arc and get it fixed because they have a faulty unit or b) learn how to test products. It's either one of those two. If it's (a), then that's the nature of the beast it seems. Arc has addressed issues and seems very open to working with anyone to resolve them. So rather than poke and prod over something for no apparent, legitimate reason, why not discuss facts. If Arc was unwilling to address concerns this would be an entirely different topic altogether. But from the reports and personal concerns I've had, it seems to me that Arc is doing their best to make every person who owns this unit satisfied. 

Sorry for the potentially uneeded rant. I'm still your e-friend. I'm just aggravated at these inconclusive and alluding posts.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

.....


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Erin, Now that needed a "THANKS" button!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

My issue isn't with tests that show a faulty unit (assuming the testing was done correctly). Look at all the driver testing I do. I've tested drivers that were just plain bad and I've contacted the companies when it's happened to the degree that I think there's a fault; not just an issue with the design (these are two completely different things). My problem is with the allusion to these data that support the claim. If it's legit, that's fine. But let's see it if so. Let's discuss why we see what we see. Is it a design flaw or a fault that can be addressed? What is it and does it affect us? Has Arc refused to help them? My point in all of this is pretty simple: what is the point of it? What's to be gained? If the company is burning people left and right that's a very legitimate reason to point these potential issues out. 

Do I speak french? No. If that was a sarcastic reply it doesn't fit. If not, sorry for being touchy.  


So, here's where I'm coming from. I ordered one back in October. I got it in 2 days before Finals. I hooked it up and something didn't seem right so I contacted Arc (side note: it had nothing to do with pops or temperature related issues). I supplied them with my info, and they said to let them know when I was ready to ship. I was too lazy to get it out of my car for a couple weeks but I finally packed it up and called Arc and then shipped it back. Fred actually contacted me personally to let me know they got it in and were going to check it out. I was contacted a bit later and told it was ready to come back and I asked them to hold off a week since I would be on vacation and I didn't want it to sit on my porch. I called when I got back home and a week later it was back. 
I said all of that to say this: when I noticed the issue my first inkling wasn't to rush out and tell everyone. I told a couple friends who might have an idea but I didn't make it public knowledge for one main reason: Arc was very helpful in the process to resolve the issue. They didn't tell me I was stupid or on crack. So, while I may seem like I'm defending them... well, I am in some regard because I am a happy customer. And so far I've seen them doing what they need to do to help others, such as Matt and Oca. If Arc had snubbed me or I was concerned this was a real problem that would affect many others and potentially harm their systems, (anyone who knows me) knows I would make that public knowledge. I've done it a few times before.

Just to reiterate: I'm completely fine with people exposing faulty products. Moreso when the company is deadbeat. I'm fine with people discussing issues in order to resolve them. But I think there's been an overwhelming desire to continually bring up issues without evidence. I have yet to write my review but so far, I've been more than happy with the process, even considering my initial concerns and slow start. At the end of the day, Arc took care of my issue and I'm a happy customer with a product that performs as well, if not better, than I had hoped. I've posted data to show mine works fine. If others have issues then they should contact Arc if they haven't. If Arc isn't helping then, by all means, share that info. So far, I've not seen anything to back up the notion that Arc isn't doing what they can when a legitimate issue is brought to light.

So, before we all break out pitchforks, let's consider the benefit. 

- Erin


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> My issue isn't with tests that show a faulty unit (assuming the testing was done correctly). Look at all the driver testing I do. I've tested drivers that were just plain bad and I've contacted the companies when it's happened to the degree that I think there's a fault; not just an issue with the design (these are two completely different things). My problem is with the allusion to these data that support the claim. If it's legit, that's fine. But let's see it if so. Let's discuss why we see what we see. Is it a design flaw or a fault that can be addressed? What is it and does it affect us? Has Arc refused to help them? My point in all of this is pretty simple: what is the point of it? What's to be gained? If the company is burning people left and right that's a very legitimate reason to point these potential issues out.
> 
> Do I speak french? No. If that was a sarcastic reply it doesn't fit. If not, sorry for being touchy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Erin. I didnt know if you spoke french or not thats why I asked. OCA clearly stated in an earlier post these guys dont speak english, so to say post everything here I thought was silly. however I wasnt being snarky, I really didnt know. I for one dont speak it, but imagine how I felt when a piece of hardware I recommened Mr. Richard to purchase arrived and once tested the gentleman asked me if the processor had been finished being developed, and had he possibly gotten a prototype unit. Once OCA stepped in I was left out of the picture. Let's just wait and see what happens, but as mentioned earlier ARC has been contacted about the problem. Mr Richard is certainly not new to the car audio game. Heck he was using dual berhingers while we were still sucking our thumbs.....(not literally)

Now your comment on the "french conglomerate", that doesnt fit. 

Hopefully mine will sell quickly and someone can put it to good use.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Any chance you could post a thread showing the installation process of the opamps on they arrive?
> That would be useful to all of us that like to do things ourselves.
> Here's hoping there's no soldering involved.
> 
> ...


remove cover. locate Opamps which will be by the output side.
PS8 comes with OPamp sockets, so there is no soldering involved.
grab the Opamp and pull straight out. put new opamp in place. only thing to note or pay attention to is aligning the "dot" with where the original opamp was located. there is usually a dot on the PCB to indicate where it should be.
thats it--its nothing complicated to say the least


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

falstaff said:


> Thanks for the reply Erin. I didnt know if you spoke french or not thats why I asked. OCA clearly stated in an earlier post these guys dont speak english, so to say post everything here I thought was silly. however I wasnt being snarky, I really didnt know. Now your comment on the "french conglomerate" that doesnt fit either.
> 
> Hopefully mine will sell quickly and someone can put it to good use.


I literally meant conglomerate. I took Oca's posts to mean more than one guy. So, yea... not a coorporation, but a couple dudes. Wrong choice of words. But it wasn't meant as anything bad.


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> I literally meant conglomerate. I took Oca's posts to mean more than one guy. So, yea... not a coorporation, but a couple dudes. Wrong choice of words. But it wasn't meant as anything bad.


:jester::argue::biggrinflip:


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

lol, i hear ya, I guess it may sound like that. Someone needs to be the devil's advocate, though.
I am a native French speaker if you've ever traveled and met anyone from France you know that English proficiency among the French is probably the worst out of every 1st world country, for some reason. There is no "conglomerate" of testers, just a couple of car audio fans with a lot of experience apparently. There could be a conflict of interest because one of them designs DSP units, but apparently his work is for manufacturers now and he's in a completely different segment.
Anyway, yes, as I have stated previously, Arc is VERY good with addressing issues, and they are really doing their best to make sure every customer is taken care of. They might not be on these forums dealing with idiots like me in public, but if you call them they will take care of you.
*So, let me state this and make it clear.... no one will be left in the gutter with a non-working or faulty unit, so buying the PS8 is not a bad decision by any means, if it provides the features you need. Arc has excellent customer service and any issues have been dealt with.*

I quickly went over the testing data that I received. It's actually mostly positive now. The unit was exhibiting strange behavior and there were issues with outputs not being matched, and some noise issues under 600Hz, but apparently, these have been fixed by Arc, and I have a set of pictures showing test results following the update, and *everything looks good*.
There is just one issue left, which shows some PSU noise. It's nothing major and probably not audible. I'll get permission from the guy to post this ASAP so you can be the judge, but this may be due to testing conditions, or a faulty unit, which as stated before, Arc would take care of immediately.
*So, all of the issues that they had with the unit have been resolved in the latest firmware version. There is still some PSU noise, but it seems minimal. Also, this was I believe one of the first units to get shipped out.*

Sorry it seems like I'm on a mission to disgrace the PS8 or something. I'm not. If I were talking to all of you in real life it might sound different and you would understand the space I'm coming from... not negative at all. But then there's the snowball effect online and things can get out of hand quickly.

However, I just have absolutely no guilt when it comes to pointing out flaws in products. I've owned businesses, and I've gotten my balls stepped on, stabbed, fried, chewed, and kicked by customers (figuratively) and it is my understanding that in America anyway, when there a selection of products available, the seller is the *****, not the other way around, period. Customers will poke around, try to break your product, fiddle with it, try to return it, etc. and mfgs should be prepared to deal with that. If we were all "responsible" customers and we truly cared about the manufacturer or reseller, we would all be paying MSRP for everything, no one would use coupons, and the idea of a "good deal" wouldn't exist.



> First it was the post about the temp ratings of the chip which got in to Matt's head and resulted in this thread


Actually, the temp ratings post was in the 3sixty.3 thread where I posted pictures of the Rockford unit's PCB next to the PS8's PCB since they use the same DSP architecture from Cirrus Logic. I made an observation that the RF unit I had was using the Automotive chip... that post is here
This thread here was started 24h later, but I don't think Matt had read my post in the 360 thread... if he did, he didn't make a mention of it in his OP. BigRed (nothing on this website escapes this guy, it's like he reads every single post on here somehow) mentioned my post shortly after the OP and then txt'ed me to tell me about this thread, and if he hadn't, i would have never known about this discussion or Matt's issue because I just dont browse the forum index.

Anyway, there are people here who make a living installing car audio, like Syracuse who is defending ARC. If he didn't make a living in this industry, he would be a nuthugging fanboy, but as a professional, he has more experience than regular hobbyists and if he decides to stick his neck out for Arc it's probably because (aside from DC/MSRP = ~.50) their products cause him better results with less headache.

Anyway, I dont even know where I'm going with this. I'll just leave it at that.


EDIT: By the way, the PSU on the PS8 is shielded. The one on the RF 3sixty.3 isn't. It's a nice touch.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Gosh, I get done posting and there's a whole other page of stuff to read.

The benefit to this? I dont know, to me this is kind of like chatting over coffee, I usually come on here when I'm having breakfast or coffee. I don't really think about it anymore than that.

If they think this is getting out of hand and they want to deal with it, there is nothing that says it is wrong or illegal to hire a social media manager. There are people who specialize in this who can be hired full time, there are 1099 people for this, and there are agencies. Heck, there's probably a fanboy on this very forum who is willing to get paid to officially represent Arc.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Lol. It's all good. 

Regarding the posting timeline of the temp thing, I kind of have a feeling it wasn't just coincidence. Not implying ill intent. Actually completely the opposite.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> I literally meant conglomerate. I took Oca's posts to mean more than one guy. So, yea... not a coorporation, but a couple dudes. Wrong choice of words. But it wasn't meant as anything bad.


Conglomerate?
Perhaps I do the same thing when I post, and I pick words that carry a negative connotation like this one. When I think Conglomerate, I think HSBC, Phillip Morris, Dassault, Safran.... far from a couple dudes in a garage just messing with car audio ****.
And don't go editing your post and changing it to "sausage fest" or "gay slumber party" either


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> Conglomerate?
> Perhaps I do the same thing when I post, and I pick words that carry a negative connotation like this one. When I think Conglomerate, I think HSBC, Phillip Morris, Dassault, Safran.... far from a couple dudes in a garage just messing with car audio ****.
> And don't go editing your post and changing it to "sausage fest" or "gay slumber party" either




I was talking about a couple dudes who formed one data set. Nothing bad. 

Let's continue to cherry pick misused words, though. It'll provide entertainment until data is posted. 

(yea... That was sarcasm, lol)


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> I was talking about a couple dudes who formed one data set. Nothing bad.
> 
> Let's continue to cherry pick misused words, though. It'll provide entertainment until data is posted.
> 
> (yea... That was sarcasm, lol)


I was messing around too. 
anyway, they are reading this thread i'm sure, and I'm sure they speak basic english, but i dont think the ratio of time+work vs reward is good enough, with having to look up words in the dictionary etc. I'm emailing the guy now to get his permission to post the stuff.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Wait, is there any doubt that some people have experienced severe popping in cold weather with some of these units? The popping is very real. It's temperature related. If I want to listen to music which is rare I stick the hair dryer on it. If I accidentally forget to do so and leave the main fuse in, it pops like no other. I think between myself and a few others with the problem we have established that some of these units pop in cold weather through no fault of the owner/install. 

I skimmed over the last few posts and I'm not sure what's being implied but I had the popping first, before I read anything about chips and whatever else is being said. 

I had dropped this subject until I send mine out for repair but it seems (through a quick skim) that this popping is being questioned as to whether it exists. It most certainly exists in several units. If that was not implied I'll go back under my rock till I get it repaired. 

This thread has had several twists, my favorite being the origin of this unit and how it was tampered with. Got to love the crowd. The people who called me a liar remain silent when others "popped up" with the same problem. The guy that created the huge lie about me buying this unit from another member..... Gone after being proved a liar.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Matt, i wasn't directing my replies toward you. If I were, you know I'd stand behind it.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> remove cover. locate Opamps which will be by the output side.
> PS8 comes with OPamp sockets, so there is no soldering involved.
> grab the Opamp and pull straight out. put new opamp in place. only thing to note or pay attention to is aligning the "dot" with where the original opamp was located. there is usually a dot on the PCB to indicate where it should be.
> thats it--its nothing complicated to say the least


Thanks Mic. :thumbsup:
I am leaning very hard towards using one in my build.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> Wait, is there any doubt that some people have experienced severe popping in cold weather with some of these units? The popping is very real. It's temperature related. If I want to listen to music which is rare I stick the hair dryer on it. If I accidentally forget to do so and leave the main fuse in, it pops like no other. I think between myself and a few others with the problem we have established that some of these units pop in cold weather through no fault of the owner/install.
> 
> I skimmed over the last few posts and I'm not sure what's being implied but I had the popping first, before I read anything about chips and whatever else is being said.
> 
> ...


Matt,
I know you have a lot on your plate right now but have you sent it in?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

Mistaken not a liar ..... Thanks for the great info Erin.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oca123 said:


> That would be *enculé* (an cue lay)
> 
> And so the saga continues...
> 
> BuickGN, if you ever end up driving down to OC, I like troubleshooting stuff... and when troubleshooting doesn't work, well, there's always just plain shooting.


Actually, it's more like _on-cue-lay_  lol

Kelvin


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

oca123 said:


> I wonder if JBL is planning another car audio processor


Noooooooo! I don't think Andy would survive this! He'd suffer cardiac arrest, or go Postal, or....


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> Actually, it's more like _on-cue-lay_  lol
> 
> Kelvin


Not in the south, where it would most commonly be heard. Maybe I should have added "peuchere" at the end 

Also, it just hit me that a few those of us here who don't think that the PS8 is the holy grail, have experience with pro audio products... it would make sense, because in the car audio world, the PS8 ranks up there...
But take a look at the DCX2496 for example. It sits at the low-end of the pro audio lineup and sells for less than $300 brand new. Two of them would cost less than $600 and you would have 12 channels and a stupid amount of features.... and that thing was out in what, 2004?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> Noooooooo! I don't think Andy would survive this! He'd suffer cardiac arrest, or go Postal, or....


what are you talking about, Andy has wet dreams about this every night... and right before he gets on diyma, he looks at himself in the mirror, and goes "don't you know that i'm loco?"


----------



## laroid (Jan 9, 2013)

I have recently been in contact with Arc about some of the features on the mixer and they were able to answer my question on the install I have coming up. My preordered PS8 should ship sometime soon and be available for pick up by this Friday according to Soundsational Audio Dealer. 

I do plan on getting the controller when available and understand that Arc is in the process programing the code to talk to the PS8's software update.


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oca123 said:


> Not in the south, where it would most commonly be heard. Maybe I should have added "peuchere" at the end
> 
> Also, it just hit me that a few those of us here who don't think that the PS8 is the holy grail, have experience with pro audio products... it would make sense, because in the car audio world, the PS8 ranks up there...
> But take a look at the DCX2496 for example. It sits at the low-end of the pro audio lineup and sells for less than $300 brand new. Two of them would cost less than $600 and you would have 12 channels and a stupid amount of features.... and that thing was out in what, 2004?


Nicely played "mon brave"  

Kelvin


----------



## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

oca123 said:


> English proficiency among the French is probably the worst out of every 1st world country, for some reason.


Likely because we've been kicking the crap out of each other for centuries and have a pretty healthy disdain for each other-I suspect being saved from the Nazis by the Brits and Americans is still a sore point for the older generations who couldn't fight their own battle. As a half German in the UK I was still getting racist comments in the 90s, the war left some deep scars.

Parisians are particularly noted for their arrogance and ability to avoid speaking English to allow the tourist to make a fool of himself. In less tourist heavy areas I've met many French who love to speak and practice their English and I have a French friend who speaks English better than anyone I know, he is Parisian and will happily admit to their arrogance!


----------



## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

oca123 said:


> Not in the south, where it would most commonly be heard. Maybe I should have added "peuchere" at the end
> 
> Also, it just hit me that a few those of us here who don't think that the PS8 is the holy grail, have experience with pro audio products... it would make sense, because in the car audio world, the PS8 ranks up there...
> But take a look at the DCX2496 for example. It sits at the low-end of the pro audio lineup and sells for less than $300 brand new. Two of them would cost less than $600 and you would have 12 channels and a stupid amount of features.... and that thing was out in what, 2004?


True, though they're pretty bulky, mains voltage and my only audio buddy with experience of Behringer didn't have great things to say about their quality-though I was recommended the DCX2496 on here for a HA project...


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

I gots me some plans.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

The Baron Groog said:


> True, though they're pretty bulky, mains voltage and my only audio buddy with experience of Behringer didn't have great things to say about their quality-though I was recommended the DCX2496 on here for a HA project...


My 1st point was that the PS8 is not a technological breakthrough by any means, in fact it is odd that car audio DSPs are years behind, since the behringer came out almost a decade ago. My 2nd point was that it is priced based on supply/demand. The Behringer is larger to ship, and might cost less to mfg for 12v. I actually just found out that therer is a bunch of information on this very forum about converting these for car audio use.

Anyway, I dont want to steer this off-topic.



> Wait, is there any doubt that some people have experienced severe popping in cold weather with some of these units? The popping is very real. It's temperature related. If I want to listen to music which is rare I stick the hair dryer on it. If I accidentally forget to do so and leave the main fuse in, it pops like no other. I think between myself and a few others with the problem we have established that some of these units pop in cold weather through no fault of the owner/install.
> 
> I skimmed over the last few posts and I'm not sure what's being implied but I had the popping first, before I read anything about chips and whatever else is being said.
> 
> I had dropped this subject until I send mine out for repair but it seems (through a quick skim) that this popping is being questioned as to whether it exists. It most certainly exists in several units. If that was not implied I'll go back under my rock till I get it repaired.


I don't doubt it. Just because Arc posted one video of one unit performing while cold, does not mean all of them will. This goes back to the way these DSP chips are separated so they can be sold as automotive vs commercial. This is called binning, and this is how it works in normal people terms:


```
montreal   freezing ballz   kinda cold   warm   hot   i'm melting

[ automotive ---------------------------------------------------- ]
[ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ][ commercial ---------- ] [ xxxxxxxxxx ]
```
A threshold of what is considered acceptable is set (for example, an error %) and chips that exceed this threshold at any point in the [ xxxxx ] zone are thrown in the "commercial" bin.
But the automotive and commercial chips are the same, off the same production line, and chances are, commercial chips will work error-free across most of the automotive temperature range as well.....
EXCEPT the automotive version of this particular DSP chip is also meant to run at a lower frequency than the commercial version. I wonder why that is :surprised:

Maybe Arc can, and has, fixed the issue via a firmware update, or maybe they need to service the processor.... at any rate, they take care of their customers, so just ship yours out already, and it will be fixed.

Now I think the money and time spent making that facebook video, could have been spent paying for two-way shipping for these units, but you know..... at least they are 100% behind their product and new units likely don't have this issue.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

And yes, you are 100% right on the French/English stuff


----------



## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

oca123 said:


> My 1st point was that the PS8 is not a technological breakthrough by any means, in fact it is odd that car audio DSPs are years behind, since the behringer came out almost a decade ago. My 2nd point was that it is priced based on supply/demand. The Behringer is larger to ship, and might cost less to mfg for 12v. I actually just found out that therer is a bunch of information on this very forum about converting these for car audio use.


If they sell you all the tech they have today they've nothing to sell you tomorrow! Not everyone is blessed to know guys in PA, have learnt a few things off them on here!


----------



## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

oca123 said:


> Now I think the money and time spent making that facebook video, could have been spent paying for two-way shipping for these units, but you know..... at least they are 100% behind their product and new units likely don't have this issue.


Yes it's good to know. Now if they could just finish the manual.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oca123 said:


> Not in the south, where it would most commonly be heard. Maybe I should have added "peuchere" at the end
> 
> Also, it just hit me that a few those of us here who don't think that the PS8 is the holy grail, have experience with pro audio products... it would make sense, because in the car audio world, the PS8 ranks up there...
> But take a look at the DCX2496 for example. It sits at the low-end of the pro audio lineup and sells for less than $300 brand new. Two of them would cost less than $600 and you would have 12 channels and a stupid amount of features.... and that thing was out in what, 2004?


I've had experience with pro audio DSPs as well. I don't run them in my car because in some way, each has issues I don't want to deal with. If what you said is true, then all car audio DSPs should equally be as displeasing.

Edit: not to say that the pro audio pieces don't have their benefits. They just don't outweigh the negatives enough for me to use them. I have friends that do, though.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah, well, they aren't made for car use. The Behringer from a build quality standpoint is miles away from the PS8.
The PS8's build quality is great. The PCB is pretty. I took apart a lot of pro audio stuff, and it usually looks like ****.

anyway, im late, gotta go


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> Edit: not to say that the pro audio pieces don't have their benefits. They just don't outweigh the negatives enough for me to use them. I have friends that do, though.


well, its not as extreme as, but not unlike comparing an exotic car (in the days when they weren't all owned by VW/BMW) to a mass-produced vehicle


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

oca123 said:


> well, its not as extreme as, but not unlike comparing an exotic car (in the days when they weren't all owned by VW/BMW) to a mass-produced vehicle


Isn't Germany exotic enough?


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Matt, i wasn't directing my replies toward you. If I were, you know I'd stand behind it.


I know. I was in a hurry and caught a couple key words. I probably could have saved some typing time if I had read the whole thing.


PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Matt,
> I know you have a lot on your plate right now but have you sent it in?
> 
> 
> ...


I know it's turning out to be totally rediculous and that's why I would rather this thread die out until I get it fixed or maybe a less aggressive title. The fiancee agreed to mail it tomorrow once I get it boxed up. I _am_ busy but the main reason is I just lost interest in car audio over the past couple months. My last couple car audio transactions have left a sour taste in my mouth, the Esotar tweeters don't have that sparkle and airiness to them anymore and I don't even want to think about them being hurt so it's easier to get out of this thing and cut my losses. If I get it repaired, I can sell it for more, that's my main motivation for repairing it. 

I'll update tomorrow if I get it sent out.


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

The Baron Groog said:


> Likely because we've been kicking the crap out of each other for centuries and have a pretty healthy disdain for each other-I suspect being saved from the Nazis by the Brits and Americans is still a sore point for the older generations who couldn't fight their own battle. As a half German in the UK I was still getting racist comments in the 90s, the war left some deep scars.
> 
> Parisians are particularly noted for their *arrogance* and ability to avoid speaking English to allow the tourist to make a fool of himself. In less tourist heavy areas I've met many French who love to speak and practice their English and I have a French friend who speaks English better than anyone I know, he is Parisian and will happily admit to their *arrogance*!


Amen! 

Kelvin


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

there is paris, and then there is france.


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

http://www.mobileaudiosolutions.com.au/downloads/InCarPS8.pdf 

Kelvin


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

OK, Bikinpunk, a fellow named Richard is going to contact you. He decided that it would be best for you and him to discuss his test results and there is some testing he would like you to do on your unit.
He has decided that posting the graphs of his noisy unit is not fair, at least until he can figure out whether it is his unit only that is defective. (which is probably the case)
if it turns out to be a problem with several units, then the data will be posted, if not, then the unit will be shipped to Arc, the issue resolved, and no graphs of his defective unit will be posted as they wouldnt be representative of the bulk of the PS8s out there.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I know. I was in a hurry and caught a couple key words. I probably could have saved some typing time if I had read the whole thing.
> 
> 
> I know it's turning out to be totally rediculous and that's why I would rather this thread die out until I get it fixed or maybe a less aggressive title. The fiancee agreed to mail it tomorrow once I get it boxed up. I _am_ busy but the main reason is I just lost interest in car audio over the past couple months. My last couple car audio transactions have left a sour taste in my mouth, the Esotar tweeters don't have that sparkle and airiness to them anymore and I don't even want to think about them being hurt so it's easier to get out of this thing and cut my losses. If I get it repaired, I can sell it for more, that's my main motivation for repairing it.
> ...


I promise you they aren't damaged. They either work or they don't. If they were damaged you'd hear something definitive like a scratchy coil or something. It would be more than a vague "loss if airiness".

Sometimes it seems like you WANT things to be wrong with your system. That might not be the case but it seems like you always think something is broken just enough to not be 100% or to be replaced without being outright bad. 

That said, if you're out I'll take your Dyns.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> The fiancee


Hah, its settling in... notice how it goes from "My fiancee" to "The fiancee?"



BuickGN said:


> I just lost interest in car audio over the past couple months.


Could be due to being engaged and having to transition into "grown up" things.... watch out or you could become mr boring next door.



BuickGN said:


> the Esotar tweeters don't have that sparkle and airiness to them anymore


I highly doubt that your tweeters have become unable to reproduce 14khz+. If they were damaged, they wouldnt be working at all, or they would be rubbing and it would be obvious (when you first posted I did some research on tweeter damage) - at the very least, the lower end of their f/r would be impaired, not the high frequencies associated with airiness and sparkle.

Your tweeters are fine. Its possible you're just too busy, depressed, or maybe car audio was a temporary passtime that was meant to fill a void that has now been filled.

I hope its not depression. If you do decide to get out of car audio and sell some stuff, lemme know


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I promise you they aren't damaged. They either work or they don't. If they were damaged you'd hear something definitive like a scratchy coil or something. It would be more than a vague "loss if airiness".
> 
> Sometimes it seems like you WANT things to be wrong with your system. That might not be the case but it seems like you always think something is broken just enough to not be 100% or to be replaced without being outright bad.
> 
> That said, if you're out I'll take your Dyns.


I'll make you a damn good deal if I sell. 

I've been on the verge of getting sick for a while, hopefully it's my ears and not the tweeters, I definitely have some hearing loss and I'm sure if I were to google it, the upper frequencies probably go first when your ears are plugged up. That's the main reason I haven't tried adjusting anything just yet. I want to believe you and I do for the most part. Plus if something is damaged I can blame it on something other than my lack of tuning skills.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I've been on the verge of getting sick for a while, hopefully it's my ears and not the tweeters, I definitely have some hearing loss and I'm sure if I were to google it, the upper frequencies probably go first when your ears are plugged up.


My ears will tell me that I'm coming down with something before my body does. Even with a little low level tinnitus, mental state can change things too, especially stress.

Pretty nifty if you use your ears for a living because when it comes on I can get it under control before it gets me down....

Not to sound like a cliche but listen to your body.


----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

No popping on my ps8 this winter, we had a few cold days. I had an abnormally long "boot up time" which was corrected by the lastest firmware update


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I'll make you a damn good deal if I sell.


Don't tease me. lol



> I've been on the verge of getting sick for a while, hopefully it's my ears and not the tweeters, I definitely have some hearing loss and I'm sure if I were to google it, the upper frequencies probably go first when your ears are plugged up. That's the main reason I haven't tried adjusting anything just yet. I want to believe you and I do for the most part. Plus if something is damaged I can blame it on something other than my lack of tuning skills.


That's how it is for me. My ears
Have been worthless since about Xmas because of the flu and it was the top end I noticed going first. Then vocals got cloudy.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Don't tease me. lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you get one immediately do a firm ware update... 
You have to hold the reset button until the red light comes on. Then start up the software and update. 

Fixed many of the issues I had. Including the issue I had from switching the input modes (the dam thing didn't want me to use optical). One time the ps8 was stuck in an infinate turn on turn off loop, wiped the firmware and now I am going 1 month strong with no issues, the latest patch appears to be a winner.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

This may or may not belong here but what the heck.

I mentioned earlier some of the "airiness" or whatever missing from the tweeter. Basically the upper end and I thought on several instances I caught a fair amount of distortion from the driver's side tweeter. The vocals also slowly drifted over toward the passenger side with no adjustments on my end. So tonight I had a few moments so I hooked the laptop up and muted all speakers but the left tweeter.

What I got was lots of scratchy distortion and no top end and even a little popping. In comparison to the right side tweeter, the left side was at not even half the volume. I turned the left tweeter output up an extra 10db and was still not able to match the volume between the two or with the rest of the system. Naturally I'm thinking PS8.... I checked the obvious, RCAs, speaker wire connections, etc. I switched the tweeters and the "badness" stayed on the driver's side...whew. So tweeters are fine. I switched RCAs and the problem stayed on the same side. It's looking like the amp or wiring.

I have a couple extra channels on the 900/5 not being used. Just for the heck of it I switched the tweeters over to the unused rear portion of this amp and it was an instant improvement, perfection. The left channel was perfect again and even the right sounded like it was better but who knows. Even the sub seems to sound better but I'm sure it's just the placebo effect.

So I have a bad channel on my 900/5. I was going to sell it cheap anyway, I may have to practically give it away. 

I'm sure the PS8 popping and the bad amp channel are unrelated, I guess I should chalk it up to my usual bad luck. The good thing is I took the PS8 out of the car, now all I have to do is ship it. I guess this would be a good time to buy the 1200/1 I've been putting off.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Sorry to hear about anyone having problems. Nothing is more frustrating than when everything SHOULD work right but doesn't.

Glad you got the problem isolated. That's a win for sure.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> This may or may not belong here but what the heck.
> 
> I mentioned earlier some of the "airiness" or whatever missing from the tweeter. Basically the upper end and I thought on several instances I caught a fair amount of distortion from the driver's side tweeter. The vocals also slowly drifted over toward the passenger side with no adjustments on my end. So tonight I had a few moments so I hooked the laptop up and muted all speakers but the left tweeter.
> 
> ...


Excellent!
Do both of these asap. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> This may or may not belong here but what the heck.
> .


everything belongs in this thread at this point 



BuickGN said:


> I guess this would be a good time to buy the 1200/1 I've been putting off.


and he's baaaaaack! phew, i was actually thinking you might actually leave us here for a second, hah.
putting off buying stuff sucks when you cant get it no more. like, i wanted to get a couple more ar15 lowers, and now, theyre all gone.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

oca123 said:


> everything belongs in this thread at this point
> 
> 
> and he's baaaaaack! phew, i was actually thinking you might actually leave us here for a second, hah.
> putting off buying stuff sucks when you cant get it no more. like, *i wanted to get a couple more ar15 lowers, and now, theyre all gone*.



Go to your local/favorite gun store, pay for them in the form of a deposit, and wait out congress.
Money talks with the gun stores and they'll make sure you get put on the waiting list for the next batch.
I'm betting you get them before congress acts on gun legislation.

Also, I 2nd the welcome back Buick! 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Go to your local/favorite gun store, pay for them in the form of a deposit, and wait out congress.
> Money talks with the gun stores and they'll make sure you get put on the waiting list for the next batch.
> I'm betting you get them before congress acts on gun legislation.
> Also, I 2nd the welcome back Buick!
> ...


I was going to buy them and flip them for a profit as soon as I heard Obama was going to speak following the shooting. A good friend who owns a large nationwide retailer of ammo and guns calls him "greatest gun salesman in the country?'


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Go to your local/favorite gun store, pay for them in the form of a deposit, and wait out congress.
> Money talks with the gun stores and they'll make sure you get put on the waiting list for the next batch.
> I'm betting you get them before congress acts on gun legislation.
> 
> ...


Thanks to both of you guys. I was disappointed with the mediocre sound. I would probably have been out if it weren't for accidentally finding the reason why my tweeters have been sounding so terrible but now that it sounds good again I'm going to give it another shot. More power, maybe another 15. The biggest problem I'm having right now is the door cards vibrating like crazy even at relatively low volumes. The bass hasn't been as snappy as I would like from the midbass. After muting all speakers but the midbass I could hear all of the rattles. By putting pressure on the door card and eliminating most of the rattles the snap was back. I don't know what else to do about it, I've done everything I can think of. Right now they're highpassed at 80hz instead of the usual 60hz and it makes very little difference.


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

what slope?


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## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

I get the same popping at temps below freezing. I honestly have not read through all 19 pages of this post but does it sound like what I've captured in these two videos? It doesn't appear to be related to the volume position on my head unit. And it goes away after about a minute or so. I have power cycled to see if that would correct the issue and none of the power cycles I did actually stopped the popping. I have to remember to power off my head unit at night so that when I remote start my car in the mornings it doesn't do it. It hasn't been loud enough to cause any problems that I am aware of but I definitely don't want it popping and potentially doing something damaging while I'm not there to possibly stop it. Anyhow, I'll go back through the pages to see if a resolution has been found. Just curious if it is the same type of popping that I am experiencing.











By the way, why aren't my videos showing up embedded? I've seen other posts where the videos embed. I tried searching for instructions on how to properly embed a YouTube video here in case I was doing it wrong but I can't seem to find those instructions. Nevermind, looks like it was a IE issue. They take a long time to show up in IE whereas Firefox displays them immediately. Strange.


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Looks embedded to me?


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)




----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

I haven't gotten a popping issue in my ps8 even when it is cold outside. BUT I do get engine noise when the unit powers for about 2 minutes after the system starts.

I take it that this is "normal"??


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

There is no spoon. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

jsampsell said:


> I get the same popping at temps below freezing. I honestly have not read through all 19 pages of this post but does it sound like what I've captured in these two videos? It doesn't appear to be related to the volume position on my head unit. And it goes away after about a minute or so. I have power cycled to see if that would correct the issue and none of the power cycles I did actually stopped the popping. I have to remember to power off my head unit at night so that when I remote start my car in the mornings it doesn't do it. It hasn't been loud enough to cause any problems that I am aware of but I definitely don't want it popping and potentially doing something damaging while I'm not there to possibly stop it. Anyhow, I'll go back through the pages to see if a resolution has been found. Just curious if it is the same type of popping that I am experiencing.



I don't get the popping you do, but I think I heard a high pitched whistle coming from your system? I get that.


----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Richericks said:


> I don't get the popping you do, but I think I heard a high pitched whistle coming from your system? I get that.


YUP! Engine noise for me.
Not a ton of it but enough to aggrovate me slightly.


----------



## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

oca123 said:


>


 :freak: Well that solves it for me. Thanks!


----------



## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

WestCo said:


> YUP! Engine noise for me.
> Not a ton of it but enough to aggrovate me slightly.


I have found that if I unplug the antenna from the HU, it goes away. Seeing if I can resolve it this weekend.


----------



## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

Richericks said:


> I don't get the popping you do, but I think I heard a high pitched whistle coming from your system? I get that.





WestCo said:


> YUP! Engine noise for me.
> Not a ton of it but enough to aggrovate me slightly.


I definitely have engine noise. It doesn't bother me too much since I'm usually listening to music and it gets drowned out.


----------



## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

I have it too but was hoping to find the answer to fixing it this weekend. I was going to start with PS8 levels.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The antenna is a ground path as are the RCAs. Probably have a ground loop of sorts formed giving you the noise.


----------



## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

Odd thing is, I took out my AVH8400 last weekend and put in my older DEH-P940MP. The noise is there but barely audible. I have to get really close to the tweeters to hear it.


----------



## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> The antenna is a ground path as are the RCAs. Probably have a ground loop of sorts formed giving you the noise.


The ground is what I am planning to tackle. Bought an antenna ground loop isolator this week. We'll see how well that works. Maybe a few other grounding tricks as well.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Richericks said:


> I have found that if I unplug the antenna from the HU, it goes away. Seeing if I can resolve it this weekend.


That is absolutely a HU ground issue. Seen it a million times.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Richericks said:


> The ground is what I am planning to tackle. Bought an antenna ground loop isolator this week. We'll see how well that works. Maybe a few other grounding tricks as well.


You don't need the isolator, you just need a better HU ground.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Does everyone with issues have the latest firmware? Mine has no noise (my 6to8 had a little), no popping, no nothing, but I have the latest firmware.


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## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> Does everyone with issues have the latest firmware? Mine has no noise (my 6to8 had a little), no popping, no nothing, but I have the latest firmware.


I have the latest firmware/software that came out a few weeks ago. I took the second video this past Wednesday morning, 02/20/13, so my issue still persists. I have no idea whether what I am experiencing is the same that the OP and others are experiencing, though.


----------



## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

For the record, yes I am having this popping but I LOVE my system now that I have my PS8. To the point that over the past two years that I have been in some form of transition between devices and tunes, the day I picked up my car from the guys that installed and tuned the PS8 for me was the first day in a long time that I grinned from ear to ear all the way home. And I've been grinning ever since. I absolutely LOVE it.

I'm not sure that this information adds to the discussion at all but since the tone of this thread is slightly negative towards the PS8, I wanted to at least say that I am in no way unhappy with the device. I just want the popping fixed as it is not normal.


----------



## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> You don't need the isolator, you just need a better HU ground.


The ground from the HU's harness currently set up as follows:
connection to the factory ground
connection to the front stage amp ground under the passenger seat
connected to the PS8 in the rear of the car
connected to the Micro bypass.

Am I over-grounded lol

This weekend I will try disconnecting the ground at the amp. If that has no effect I will try disconnecting it from the OEM ground. I will also try grounding the PS8 at the sub amp in the back instead of the HU.

Do you think that running a ground directly to the HU's chassis will help. Perhaps I'll give that a shot as well.


----------



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

jsampsell said:


> I get the same popping at temps below freezing. I honestly have not read through all 19 pages of this post but does it sound like what I've captured in these two videos? It doesn't appear to be related to the volume position on my head unit. And it goes away after about a minute or so. I have power cycled to see if that would correct the issue and none of the power cycles I did actually stopped the popping. I have to remember to power off my head unit at night so that when I remote start my car in the mornings it doesn't do it. It hasn't been loud enough to cause any problems that I am aware of but I definitely don't want it popping and potentially doing something damaging while I'm not there to possibly stop it. Anyhow, I'll go back through the pages to see if a resolution has been found. Just curious if it is the same type of popping that I am experiencing.
> 
> Video snip...


I have the same exact popping in my PS8. It goes away after a few minutes. My garage probably never gets below 60 deg. where I live so I'm not sure it's a cold related issue or has more to do with it being ~12 hours between power ons. Once the popping subsides, I can cycle the PS8 on over a several hour period and the popping won't be present, until the next day. BTW, I never had this issue until I installed the latest firmware/software updates. My PS8 is going back to Arc.

Besides that issue, I thought my PS8 was noisy and harsh sounding, although I have not ruled out improper level settings by me as a culprit. So no PS8 love for me yet but I'm not giving up unless Arc fails me.


----------



## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

Level settings is my issue, I haven't done anything except set XO's. I've heard the PS8 shine in southsyde's car. I was blown away.


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

ISTundra said:


> Besides that issue, I thought my PS8 was noisy and harsh sounding, although I have not ruled out improper level settings by me as a culprit. So no PS8 love for me yet but I'm not giving up unless Arc fails me.


Two things I wouldn't say about it- I've listened to about 10 now... Poping I have heard and that unit was corrected when sent in. I must say there are 2 cars I was blown away by at meca finals... Both sporting ps8's....


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ISTundra said:


> I have the same exact popping in my PS8. It goes away after a few minutes. My garage probably never gets below 60 deg. where I live so I'm not sure it's a cold related issue or has more to do with it being ~12 hours between power ons. Once the popping subsides, I can cycle the PS8 on over a several hour period and the popping won't be present, until the next day. BTW, I never had this issue until I installed the latest firmware/software updates. My PS8 is going back to Arc.
> 
> Besides that issue, I thought my PS8 was noisy and harsh sounding, although I have not ruled out improper level settings by me as a culprit. So no PS8 love for me yet but I'm not giving up unless Arc fails me.


Not setting the levels correctly can make it sound bad. Really bad. When I did it by ear I wasn't thrilled. Then I remembered about the meters and use them and it's been great. It ALMOST makes the OEM HU livable. Almost.


----------



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Not setting the levels correctly can make it sound bad. Really bad. When I did it by ear I wasn't thrilled. Then I remembered about the meters and use them and it's been great. It ALMOST makes the OEM HU livable. Almost.


No doubt I'm doing something wrong, but I went through my levels several times, using a DMM/o-scope and the meters and couldn't get it under control. I also noticed some digital noise in certain channels that competely went away when I removed the PS8.

I'm sure the PS8 in competent hands is a marvel and there are plenty of happy users. That still doesn't exclude there could be/is an issue with some out there, including mine.


----------



## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> I have the same exact popping in my PS8. It goes away after a few minutes. My garage probably never gets below 60 deg. where I live so I'm not sure it's a cold related issue or has more to do with it being ~12 hours between power ons. Once the popping subsides, I can cycle the PS8 on over a several hour period and the popping won't be present, until the next day. BTW, I never had this issue until I installed the latest firmware/software updates. My PS8 is going back to Arc.
> 
> Besides that issue, I thought my PS8 was noisy and harsh sounding, although I have not ruled out improper level settings by me as a culprit. So no PS8 love for me yet but I'm not giving up unless Arc fails me.


Well, the fact that you get the popping above freezing is quite interesting. That has been the only common denominator that I have noticed. Although, technically, the 12-hour timeframe between turning on the unit is a common denominator for me too but I just never considered that as an issue. I do not recall having the popping with the first firmware but the popping has occurred in my system with the current and previous firmwares loaded. The firmware may or may not be the culprit though.

After reading through this today, I have contacted the shop I bought it from and they are going to talk to Arc about what to do and get back to me. In the end, all I want is to be in the group of PS8 owners who don't have the popping.


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

jsampsell said:


> Well, the fact that you get the popping above freezing is quite interesting. That has been the only common denominator that I have noticed. Although, technically, the 12-hour timeframe between turning on the unit is a common denominator for me too but I just never considered that as an issue. I do not recall having the popping with the first firmware but the popping has occurred in my system with the current and previous firmwares loaded. The firmware may or may not be the culprit though.
> 
> After reading through this today, I have contacted the shop I bought it from and they are going to talk to Arc about what to do and get back to me. In the end, all I want is to be in the group of PS8 owners who don't have the popping.


pick up the phone and call arc yourself if you have a moment! Great bunch of guys...


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## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> pick up the phone and call arc yourself if you have a moment! Great bunch of guys...


I certainly don't mind doing that if it comes to it but I'm going to let the shop that sold/installed it call them first. They know the guys there very well so they'll probably take care of it just fine. I'll get involved directly if I need to. Technically that's the chain things like this are supposed to go through anyway right?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

cajunner said:


> until Arc starts an online presence and has a rep online here


Won't happen.


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## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

cajunner said:


> until Arc starts an online presence and has a rep online here, I'd go with the local shop doing what they do, but if they try anything stupid get on the horn before coming here and putting more negativity in the pot.
> 
> jmho, have your guy that installed it, take it out and send it off so there's no issues, or "excuses"


I am confident that my local guys will take care of it but if they for some reason can't I wouldn't bash Arc for a bad local experience. I love the product so I'll do what I need to do to get a good one. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

For whatever its worth, my 3sixty3 will not accept my OEM signal. I set the volume to "1" on my head unit and the 3sixty3 overloads. (using speaker-level)

so, it could be worse


----------



## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

oca123 said:


> For whatever its worth, my 3sixty3 will not accept my OEM signal. I set the volume to "1" on my head unit and the 3sixty3 overloads. (using speaker-level)
> 
> so, it could be worse


Since off-topic doesn't seem to be a problem here  , I'm curious about what kind of vehicle you have and why the OEM signal is so hot compared to everything else. I've heard of BMWs and some Cadillacs being tricky to deal with doing aftermarket radio stuff but nothing along these lines.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

jsampsell said:


> Well, the fact that you get the popping above freezing is quite interesting. That has been the only common denominator that I have noticed. Although, technically, the 12-hour timeframe between turning on the unit is a common denominator for me too but I just never considered that as an issue. I do not recall having the popping with the first firmware but the popping has occurred in my system with the current and previous firmwares loaded. The firmware may or may not be the culprit though.
> 
> After reading through this today, I have contacted the shop I bought it from and they are going to talk to Arc about what to do and get back to me. In the end, all I want is to be in the group of PS8 owners who don't have the popping.


I originally had popping around freezing the the required temp gradually moved up until I was getting popping at 60 degrees and only 1hr of off time.


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## jsampsell (Apr 20, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> I originally had popping around freezing the the required temp gradually moved up until I was getting popping at 60 degrees and only 1hr of off time.


Did you listen to the popping in the videos I posted by chance? I'm curious if it is the same as what you originally had. I'm wondering if we are experiencing different kinds of popping and just describing it the same way. Of course, that could be me grasping at thin air in the hopes that I don't start getting the popping at higher temps. I am hopefully going to send the unit in this week sometime so it may be a moot point.


----------



## lbp775 (Jul 7, 2011)

jsampsell said:


> Did you listen to the popping in the videos I posted by chance? I'm curious if it is the same as what you originally had. I'm wondering if we are experiencing different kinds of popping and just describing it the same way. Of course, that could be me grasping at thin air in the hopes that I don't start getting the popping at higher temps. I am hopefully going to send the unit in this week sometime so it may be a moot point.


I'm not Buick but the popping noise I got was spaced apart more and really loud. To the point that I have removed the unit for fear of damage to the speakers. This occurred before and after a firmware upgrade. Each time the temp has been in the mid 40's.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

jsampsell said:


> Since off-topic doesn't seem to be a problem here  , I'm curious about what kind of vehicle you have and why the OEM signal is so hot compared to everything else. I've heard of BMWs and some Cadillacs being tricky to deal with doing aftermarket radio stuff but nothing along these lines.


bentley conti gt, not sure what's up with the OEM signal, but the 3sixty.3 doesnt like it. i swapped for my old bit1 and it doesnt have a problem with it. no problem though, i just tapped the signal before the amp, i lose park distance control, but i dont really care.

EDIT: the PS8 actually did fine using the speaker-level signal. But honestly, the OEM signal is terrible, and there is more than just EQ applied to it, so even with de-EQ it doesn't sound right.


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## SQHemi (Jan 17, 2010)

Is there any relation to the op amp upgrade and the popping, engine noise, excessive noise floor issues people seem to be having? I would think there would be more to actual swapping sequence. Some sort of firmware re-calibration / reset to accept the new values of the newly installed opamp. Can anyone shed some details on the software>firmware>hardware scenario.

I definitely have a love/hate relationship with my PS8 and the other four I have installed/tuned. Some days I want to kick Fred squarely in the nuts and then the next I wanna buy him a beer. And yes I have told him this directly too...:laugh:. I wont even get into the software glitches as I know they are working on a resolution.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I thought this thing did the processing and gave you head while you were driving...


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> I thought this thing did the processing and gave you head while you were driving...


LOL :laugh:


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> I thought this thing did the processing and gave you head while you were driving...


I think that's called a 'Personal Assistant'. That's different.


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## lbp775 (Jul 7, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> I thought this thing did the processing and gave you head while you were driving...


That's the main reason I bought it!




SQHemi said:


> Is there any relation to the op amp upgrade and the popping, engine noise, excessive noise floor issues people seem to be having? I would think there would be more to actual swapping sequence. Some sort of firmware re-calibration / reset to accept the new values of the newly installed opamp. Can anyone shed some details on the software>firmware>hardware scenario


Wish it were that simple. Mine was using stock op amps.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

have any of you guys tried running a (temporary) dedicated ground to your battery? 

what headunit are you guys running (if you're not running OEM front)?


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> I thought this thing did the processing and gave you head while you were driving...


Sweet! I'll take 2!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> have any of you guys tried running a (temporary) dedicated ground to your battery?
> 
> what headunit are you guys running (if you're not running OEM front)?


Mine is grounded to an OEM ground. I didn't even sand it. 

Using the POS OEM HU for now.


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Mine is grounded to an OEM ground. I didn't even sand it.
> 
> Using the POS OEM HU for now.


Paul were you always noise free? I never got a chance to go back and troubleshoot mine before pulling most of my gear. I'm still hoping its the levels on the on the 8 and gains on the amps because I had both engine noise and wine.

Edit; I'm using the 7990


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Yessir. Never had any noise issues at all. Other than a really long turn on delay and that might be HU related I'm 100% bug free.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Stupid duplicate posts


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Stupid duplicate posts


so much for bug free, huh?

lol.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

jsampsell said:


> I get the same popping at temps below freezing. I honestly have not read through all 19 pages of this post but does it sound like what I've captured in these two videos? It doesn't appear to be related to the volume position on my head unit. And it goes away after about a minute or so. I have power cycled to see if that would correct the issue and none of the power cycles I did actually stopped the popping. I have to remember to power off my head unit at night so that when I remote start my car in the mornings it doesn't do it. It hasn't been loud enough to cause any problems that I am aware of but I definitely don't want it popping and potentially doing something damaging while I'm not there to possibly stop it. Anyhow, I'll go back through the pages to see if a resolution has been found. Just curious if it is the same type of popping that I am experiencing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I missed this the first time around. This sounds almost exactly like mine. It's probably the mic or my computer speakers but mine sounds much louder. Maybe it's where the amp's gain is set making the difference in loudness. At one point I was thinking about maxing out the gain on the PS8 and turning the gain down on the amps to see if it helped with the intensity of the pops. It's scared people in the passenger seat before. I could feel the midbass in my legs and the midrange in my feet. Originally it would only happen in the 30s. Toward the end it was happening well into the 60s. I found that if I immediately cranked the music the popping would be less severe and for a shorter duration or not at all.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> so much for bug free, huh?
> 
> lol.


Youuuuuuu


----------



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Mine was grounded to chassis bare metal, never tried to it the battery

My HU is a P99, which is clean and dead quiet.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I found that if I immediately cranked the music the popping would be less severe and for a shorter duration or not at all.


This screams cold solder joint. Weird.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> This screams cold solder joint. Weird.


or bad ribbon connection.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> have any of you guys tried running a (temporary) dedicated ground to your battery?


Battery is not ground, battery is attached to ground.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

chad said:


> or bad ribbon connection.


But which ribbon connector? I can't think of one that would affect the audio.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

dunno, but the ribbon thing is a VERY common problem, solder joints don't do that as much as many think. Also socketed IC's will give fits too.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

chad said:


> Battery is not ground, battery is attached to ground.


I think they understood what I meant.


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## DevilSun (Oct 25, 2012)

I finally got mine in (I bough oca123s unit a while back) and fully hooked up last week, and did some setup and a lot of listening this weekend. In short, it is absolutely amazing so far. Haven't done any cold start tests or anything like that as it wasn't really cold and I slept in each day, but it appears to have a very quiet noise floor and is quite transparent hooked up to the crappy '11 stock Ford head unit meeting and surpassing my sound quality and processing expectations. I think my neighbors truly hate me from the amount of time I've sat with my truck idling while tuning and listening...if only they didn't know I wasn't done yet.

At first after hooking it up, I too had a VERY long start-up as well -- turns out updating the firmware on it, retrieving settings from it (as per instructions somewhere), shortening/setting the REM out delay then sending all the settings back to it again fixed that and it turns on and processes music immediately as expected or whatever it's set at for delay. I know at one point the delay was set to 10s or more, but I know for a fact it was less than that when I put my initial base tune xover settings on it. Maybe the firmware update wiped that settings, either way it doesn't do it anymore.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The Behringer DCX had a problem with ribbon cables that would cause a popping...it was also known as the frying egg problem.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> I think they understood what I meant.


Regardless, unless said NEGATIVE WIRE is fused, it's dangerous.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> The Behringer DCX had a problem with ribbon cables that would cause a popping...it was also known as the frying egg problem.


one of mine did it.. I fixed that bish.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

DevilSun said:


> I finally got mine in (I bough oca123s unit a while back) and fully hooked up last week, and did some setup and a lot of listening this weekend. In short, it is absolutely amazing so far. Haven't done any cold start tests or anything like that as it wasn't really cold and I slept in each day, but it appears to have a very quiet noise floor and is quite transparent hooked up to the crappy '11 stock Ford head unit meeting and surpassing my sound quality and processing expectations. I think my neighbors truly hate me from the amount of time I've sat with my truck idling while tuning and listening...if only they didn't know I wasn't done yet.
> 
> At first after hooking it up, I too had a VERY long start-up as well -- turns out updating the firmware on it, retrieving settings from it (as per instructions somewhere), shortening/setting the REM out delay then sending all the settings back to it again fixed that and it turns on and processes music immediately as expected or whatever it's set at for delay. I know at one point the delay was set to 10s or more, but I know for a fact it was less than that when I put my initial base tune xover settings on it. Maybe the firmware update wiped that settings, either way it doesn't do it anymore.



Glad to hear it! Thanks for the update! Sounds pretty much exactly like what I went through with the unit not starting up and needing to be flashed several times over, etc.


----------



## hifitodd (Apr 24, 2010)

PS8 just ordered from my dealer to replace a MS8 that unfortunately makes my car audio sound terrible. Can't wait to get this thing installed and tuned!


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## DevilSun (Oct 25, 2012)

oca123 said:


> Glad to hear it! Thanks for the update! Sounds pretty much exactly like what I went through with the unit not starting up and needing to be flashed several times over, etc.


Oh no, it wasn't that at all. The unit itself has always turned on immediately, and so did the amps -- it just wasn't playing sound for 10-15 seconds. Nor did I ever have problems updating or flashing it as I've done it twice now. I just figure my delayed sound output at the time was one of two things, A) firmware update cleared out the output delay settings, or B) I never really actually set them and thought I did. Either way, it's amazing at this point


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

hifitodd said:


> PS8 just ordered from my dealer to replace a MS8 that unfortunately makes my car audio sound terrible. Can't wait to get this thing installed and tuned!


First thing to do when you get it is do a firmware update.

It is an awesome processor. Probably the best out there (in that price range.)

What deck are you pairing it with?


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## hifitodd (Apr 24, 2010)

Car is a 2007 Audi S4. I'll be pairing it to a Kenwood 9990HD with McIntosh MCC406 driving a morel supremo tweeter/elate mid driver and 2 amp channels bridged to power the Morel sub. Tweeters are custom installed in the kick panels.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

hifitodd said:


> Car is a 2007 Audi S4. I'll be pairing it to a Kenwood 9990HD with McIntosh MCC406 driving a morel supremo tweeter/elate mid driver and 2 amp channels bridged to power the Morel sub. Tweeters are custom installed in the kick panels.


I have an mcc406m for my next install. I love mac amps! 

Morel speakers are very nice as well.

How do you like the sound out of the Kenwood? I haven't heard many of their double dins. If you aren't dead set on a double din, some of the old school SQ headunits are awesome to pair with it. But you won't have all the fancy features of the 2x dins 

In any case you should be very pleased with the ps8. It is very transparent. 

Last tidbit of advice I can give you is to try some vampire wire RCA's. I recently compared them to some much more expensive Encore II Rca's and they are very, very close! They are in the 35$ price range for 2 channels and are well worth the money. I think they could really help your system shine imho. 

I only mention this because I had a real headache with KNU and stinger RCA's my system had noise and a lack of detail until I got the vamps.


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## MikeS_1974 (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok Everyone,

So I've been pouring over this thread, and trying to absorb all of the "popping" information, and where it stands (as I too am quite interested in the PS8, but I currently see no definitive resolution)...
*
@BuickGN, did you ever finally send that unit in? (I apologize in advance if I missed the post about you sending it in)*

I see there have been multiple issues of this "popping" with the PS8, and it seems most (if not all?) were resolved after "sending in the unit to ARC"......but yet no one seems to know what the actual resolution was? Did ARC inform anyone as to what they found?

Being in the hardware field for quite some time, and designing PCBs, etc, as *quality_sound* pointed out, these types of issues can quite easily be cold-solder joint issues....these types of bad/intermittent solder connections almost always start to show themselves in the colder temperatures, or even just fast temperature swings.
(and "pops" many times are in fact ICs powering up/down due to Vcc/Gnd flaky connections)

As far as I can tell (and others correct me here if I'm wrong!), but ARC appears to do their own PCB design, and populating of the boards; so, they may have now (or did have before), issues with consistency of solder flow during population of the boards?

I would hope that we can get some clarification is to what they (ARC) have found, or didn't find, with these boards turned in for popping issues?

I can't say I want to go ahead and purchase one until I feel more at ease with what is really going on with these issues? anyone have any more insight at this point?


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

hifitodd said:


> PS8 just ordered from my dealer to replace a MS8 that unfortunately makes my car audio sound terrible. Can't wait to get this thing installed and tuned!


Hey how do you like your ps8?


----------



## lbp775 (Jul 7, 2011)

MikeS_1974 said:


> Ok Everyone,
> 
> So I've been pouring over this thread, and trying to absorb all of the "popping" information, and where it stands (as I too am quite interested in the PS8, but I currently see no definitive resolution)...
> *
> ...


Mine came back to me with paperwork simply stating, "Fixed ppng issues". So far, it looks to be corrected and that's all I care about.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

And ARC is unlikely to ever say what the issue was. It could have been a simple programming issue. It's like wondering how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop. The world may never know.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> And ARC is unlikely to ever say what the issue was. It could have been a simple programming issue. It's like wondering how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop. The world may never know.


True story.


Unfortunately. 

This has made me hesitant to pick one up as well. That, and not having any idea if or when the remote controller will ever be released, and/or how much $ it might set me back.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

bbfoto said:


> True story.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately.
> ...


Want mine? No issues at all. Let me know. 

The controller WILL be released. I've played with the prototype. I have the price written down somewhere but I wan tot say $299. I'll double check.


----------



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

When I got my PS8 back from Arc (re: popping), I emailed and asked about their findings. Fred responded with a lengthy detailed email. To summarize:

A bad cap was found in the unit. The cap was creating a power supply oscillation that caused increased distortion and reduced dynamic performance. They didn't feel that the bad cap was a direct cause of the popping issue but he theorized that the power supply issue in conjunction with a known firmware bug at the time (or some other setup factor(s)) could have all been contributors that led to the popping.

They replaced the cap, flashed the firmware, and I have not experienced the popping issue any more.


----------



## MikeS_1974 (Apr 26, 2013)

FYI:

I just emailed out a question to Brad, at ArcAudio. Very curious as to whether or not he will actually respond, I'm really hoping they don't play the "political" game and can answer truthfully, as it surely seems we have many potential buyers on here, that are holding back because of the unknowns with this issue.

This PS8 certainly does seem like an outstanding product, and has enormous potential for making it even better, the best out there, but it's hard to bite on this type of expense, when a serious issue like this appears to be fixed after "sending it in", with no explanation whatsoever.

I would think Arc would want to have good relationships with folks like the ones on here, as we "DIY'ers" on here represent a major portion of the market they need and want to sell too!


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> Want mine? No issues at all. Let me know.
> 
> The controller WILL be released. I've played with the prototype. I have the price written down somewhere but I wan tot say $299. I'll double check.


How much?


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Want mine? No issues at all. Let me know.
> 
> The controller WILL be released. I've played with the prototype. I have the price written down somewhere but I wan tot say $299. I'll double check.


Thanks for offer, Paul! It's effin GREAT to know that the remote actually exists and will be released at some point! I'm going to hold off for now...I don't want to be the ginnea pig for the remote testing. I'd rather wait for the public release and real-world tests/reviews. If the combo was more in the $800 range I might bite the bullet, but $1,100-$1,200 is a bit too much until I know that it'll work 100% for me.

You see, what's wrong with this is that we are learning of this through you, and not from Arc directly. BUT, I'm not a member on their forums so maybe this info is there and I'm just out of the loop/clueless. 

@ISTundra, it's fabulous that your PS8 is now working perfectly.  What a relief! And that response from Arc could be completely legit, but it just seems too vague with too many variables stated to be on the level. Then again, I'm the pessimistic/skeptical type if you haven't noticed. LOL

THANKS everyone for the info!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Arc has made announcements on their FB page and I KNOW their dealers know, or should know, about the controller. Arc has been talking about the controller for some time and has talked about it at dealer training. 

I know there was a change made to the PS8. I don't know exactly what it was, it could have been a cap change, or software, or something esle, because I was told that was why my unit was delayed before it shipped.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm just glad I had the foresight to sell mine when I did, instead of wait around for the controller they said would be released in January.
The pS8 software also included some hidden menus, etc. related to the controller and based on the stuff that I saw back then, it was going to be a while, as they were learning the architecture as they went. Steep learning curve. 

As to the popping.... they decided to deviate from what is proven to work and yield consistent results, and instead they decided to produce and populate the PCB boards here in the US. (for marketing reasons???)
Cold solder joints are to be expected.

Zed Audio goes through the same stuff.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I wouldn't call selling a perfectly good processor because a controller that isn't necessary in any way, shape, or form, "foresight". You lose absolutely nothing by not having it.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Paul, that makes sense...go figure, I'm anti-FB. I just thought that someone might post those findings here sooner. Glad the remote is finally known to be at least in the prototype phase. Still can't rely on their release date announcements due to past failure to meet them.

Well Pascal, I pretty much deduced that the main issue was a potential CSJ right from the start, and posted those thoughts way back in this thread, as I had a BNIB Pioneer DEQ-P9 years ago that suffered the EXACT symptoms people were describing with the PS8. My dad is a Ham/Amateur Radio techie and figured it out almost instantly, found the bad joint and cleaned up some others on the PCB.

Thanks again for further insight.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> I wouldn't call selling a perfectly good processor because a controller that isn't necessary in any way, shape, or form, "foresight". You lose absolutely nothing by not having it.


Huh?! As far as I understand (from the initial "test report") you absolutely need the external remote controller in order to use Digital Inputs and to have Volume Control of that source! It said that Bluetooth functionality would require it as well. How is that "not necessary in any way, shape, or form"???


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

If you want to run optical yes, but from hearing it analog, it's a complete waste of time. Analog on the PS8 sounds better than digital on every other processor I've heard.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Well some people have BMW's and various other vehicles that have known inducted noise gremlins that are very difficult to irradicate. Optical is usually the easiest and quickest solution to a noise-free, high-quality source signal. Especially if you have a source unit/PMP that has optical outputs and the analog preouts are less than 2vRMS.

I wouldn't have a problem with it if Arc decided not to include an Optical digital connection. But they did, and it is noted as a feature in the (marketing) "test report", yet this feature is still not available. 9 times out of 10 an optical connection will provide a lower noise floor, which is always desirable in competition, and a bonus for everyday listening. An extreme example is the PXA-H700/701. At the very least, I would like to have the option to switch presets without hooking up my computer.

I know I've voiced my opinion on this too many times as it is and sound like a broken record, so I'll leave it alone with this simple note: I can't even be considered a potential customer until this functionality is 100% operable. I realize that 95% of current or prospective users may have no need for it, but it would be sheer bliss in my install.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

In a BMW you just recode it for non-EP audio and you're good to go. Hell, you could even leave the EP audio in and tap signal AFTER the amp. The PS8 will take that much signal just fine. 

I know what you mean, but also remember that the PS8 is NOT the first processor that needed a controller to use optical that didn't have the controller available at launch.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

^And IMO Arc should have taken note of those previous fiascos and made sure not to make the same mistake. It just leads to constant product bashing by sour members like bbfoto in threads like this one. 

But there are many other EMI/RFI noise-producing components in a multitude of vehicles...fuel pumps, ignition coils, computer modules, HID ballasts, cyclic-voltage DRL systems, drive-by-wire accelerator and steering systems, electric power steering pumps, etc. They are accounted for in the OEM system design, but not for aftermarket systems.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

With all of the things that WON'T break a PS8, trust me, they did. As you know, however, you can never plan for everything.


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## MikeS_1974 (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

just wanted to get back to this, I did hear back from [email protected] definitely nice of him to respond back.

So essentially what he said was initially, they did have issues that were addressed from the firmware updates, and some boards did come back that had capacitor seating issues, most likely cold solder joints/low solder, etc)...he didn't elaborate on that.

Also, he stated they had tech calls in, related to popping, but those were more of the user not correctly setting up turn-on delays for the down-stream amps, etc..

So, my guess is that whatever the major factor was, solder issues, or firmware, or both, they seem to have a handle on it, and he stated the PS8 is quite reliable now....

I have a unit on the way, so I will post back as to how it works for me, and definitely the first thing I'll be looking for is how it's behaving compared to the 3sixty.3 I have in there now. I want to verify 100% that the horrible white noise floor I have now is solely the 3sixty (or not).....

I will take an extensive look at the board, etc, and check the solder joints, etc, and see how it checks out...

I've already spent some time with the PS8 application itself (offline mode), and i can definitely give them some recommendations for cleaning it up a bit....not that it's horrible or anything, but it certainly can be improved to appear and feel a bit more professional...


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Good to hear that you got a reponse at least, and that they should be trouble-free from now on as far as the popping issue goes.

And the software for just about every car audio processor that I've tried could use a lot of work on the GUI design and practical/ease of use department. I guess they just don't have the time or money to hire a top-notch programmer/developer.  Most aren't much better than the old Windows 3.1 GUI and also aren't scalable to work with different resolution displays.

Hmmm...I never had ANY noise floor issues with my 360.3. Did you have the latest firmware and software installed?


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

I have what i call the "PS8 hiss" it sounds different than noise floor, in my car anyway. I can completely get rid of it (input volume) but I run out of the headroom I built my car around. When i changed out HU's it got a little louder. You have to turn off the AC and listen closely to hear it. I picked up a Tru SSLD6i line driver I'm installing Friday in hopes it will help knock it down to where only a dog could hear it. 

Just curious. Where is your turn on delay set at?


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## MikeS_1974 (Apr 26, 2013)

oilman said:


> I have what i call the "PS8 hiss" it sounds different than noise floor, in my car anyway. I can completely get rid of it (input volume) but I run out of the headroom I built my car around. When i changed out HU's it got a little louder. You have to turn off the AC and listen closely to hear it. I picked up a Tru SSLD6i line driver I'm installing Friday in hopes it will help knock it down to where only a dog could hear it.
> 
> Just curious. Where is your turn on delay set at?


Hi Everyone,

Yep, got the PS8 installed last night, so far so good!! Yes, there is is that "hiss" floor, same type as I had with the 3sixty.3, but at least it's much lower with the PS8...it was quite a bit louder with the 3sixty..

and same deal, I can completely kill it by minimizing DSP output gains, amp gains, etc, but at some point you have such a small swing from HU min volume to max, you can't get any good output anymore!

So it seems many of us will have to get used to some type of "hiss"....especially if you have very 'clear' tweets, and you are more of a high range person like me, that really accents the highs in the music....(ie higher ranges tweaked upwards in the Eq)..

As of now, I have my *turn-on delays at 2sec, turn off at 3*....that is more than enough time from what I can tell.....I've done about 10 or so powerups/downs, and had ZERO issues with pops or noise so far..

*I must give credit to ArcAudio for this PS8, the pictures you see on their site, and in the manual, really don't truly show how slim and small a profile the unit really is..plus the board looks much sharper when you see it up close, it's actually a well-designed board, nice surface-mount layout, etc...it was hard to appreciate that from the pics online and in the manual...*

This DSP is very sharp, and sleek, especially when you take off the top 'cosmetic' cover....it really slims it down well! I only just started getting it setup, so by the weekend I should have some better feedback once I get my amp gains, EQ ranges set, etc...

*But so far, I am quite impressed, it's looking to be well worth the risk of taking out the 3sixty and going with the PS8!*

(As far as the other question about that 3sixty a couple posts back, and the "noise", I posted more info about that in the "3sixty.3" thread on here...but yes, at the latest firmware and software...)


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Make sure you have the PS8 in advanced mode and the mixer levels down around .15. The PS8 front end is VERY sensitive. 

Ricky, did you have the hiss with the 7990? I pulled Navarr's P01 and put my 535 back in and it's louder. No idea why. I'm going to try my OEM HU tonight and see what happens.


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

Ricky, did you have the hiss with the 7990? I pulled Navarr's P01 and put my 535 back in and it's louder. No idea why. I'm going to try my OEM HU tonight and see what happens.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I had a lot of noise at first and blamed it all on the PS8 because, it was a direct swap out from my old DSP that was dead quite. I bought a ground loop isolator and all noise went away. That gave me hope that the PS8 was just more sensitive to picking up noise. I had mounted 7990 converter to a metal bracket under the steering wheel and that was the root-cause to my problem. Made a foam pad for it to set on, zip-tied it down, no more noise. 

This week I did a direct swap from the 7990 to the 535 and very small hiss was back. Most wouldn't even notice it or it wouldn't bother them, you sure cant hear it when music is on. However, when we put all this time and money into our cars we want want it quite. right? In addition, I don't want to lose a point or five to noise. 

I'm not sure what the volts were on the 7990 vs the 535, but I'm hoping by installing line driver it will allow me some room to play with the processing gains. 





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I hear ya. I'm going to try my OEM HU tonight and see what happens. 

The 535 has some SOLID outputs. I'd say a real 4V at least. Line driver's never hurt. 

Oh, make sure you have the input selector in the right position. Might want to try moving it to speaker level setting.


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## MikeS_1974 (Apr 26, 2013)

oilman said:


> Ricky, did you have the hiss with the 7990? I pulled Navarr's P01 and put my 535 back in and it's louder. No idea why. I'm going to try my OEM HU tonight and see what happens.





> Yes, I had a lot of noise at first and blamed it all on the PS8 because, it was a direct swap out from my old DSP that was dead quite. I bought a ground loop isolator and all noise went away. That gave me hope that the PS8 was just more sensitive to picking up noise. I had mounted 7990 converter to a metal bracket under the steering wheel and that was the root-cause to my problem. Made a foam pad for it to set on, zip-tied it down, no more noise.
> 
> This week I did a direct swap from the 7990 to the 535 and very small hiss was back. Most wouldn't even notice it or it wouldn't bother them, you sure cant hear it when music is on. However, when we put all this time and money into our cars we want want it quite. right? In addition, I don't want to lose a point or five to noise.
> 
> ...


BTW, along these issues with Ground Loop noise, etc...*did either of you use the "Signal Ground" input into the PS8?* 
(ie connecting it to your HU ground, etc?)....

I did not do anything with it, yet, but being that my HU uses differential outputs, I may want to make sure it too is connected to chassis ground...there is no "signal" ground separate from the differential outputs from my HU, which we must assume means "chassis" ground is signal ground..

I'm not sure how Arc did that part of the circuit, where exactly that "signal ground" is routed to...but if the HUs you guys are talking about are all standard single-ended, then this input may not matter for you...but because you mentioned ground-loop noise filters, it seems like you have different "ground" references between your HU and your DSP...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Odd turn off thump with my OEM HU which is odd because it didn't do it before. Hmmmm.

edit: It's not my PS8 that I'm getting the thump with. I have another processor in right now and the thump is HU generated. I need to recheck the coding. Stupid VWs.


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

MikeS_1974, I originally did not have it grounded that way. During the initial troubleshooting I was on the phone with Brad and that was the first thing I was told to do. There were many different things I tried including disabling my install looking for something wrong.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I hear ya. I'm going to try my OEM HU tonight and see what happens.
> 
> The 535 has some SOLID outputs. I'd say a real 4V at least. Line driver's never hurt.
> 
> Oh, make sure you have the input selector in the right position. Might want to try moving it to speaker level setting.


4.23v RMS at full tilt, unclipped.


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

Zero noise and sounds as good as it ever has dynamically, I haven't put it through the paces yet. Vocals being my highest bar. But no noise and I haven't even plugged in my laptop.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Good to hear!!


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## MikeS_1974 (Apr 26, 2013)

oilman said:


> Zero noise and sounds as good as it ever has dynamically, I haven't put it through the paces yet. Vocals being my highest bar. But no noise and I haven't even plugged in my laptop.


Yep, I can finally report the same!! I realized this morning I did have that input selector out for high-level, instead of in for my low-level inputs, which made a huge difference. Finally I had proper swing range, so almost completely silenced any hiss whatsoever....there is very very slight hiss, but again, I also contribute a bit to that since I like to push the highs up even higher!

But so far, with just my initial tweaking (still have many hours to go), this thing is outstanding. Blows away the 3sixty as far as how much I can tweak the input and output levels....It just sounds awesome already.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Good news gentlemen!


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## TheBlindMan (Feb 7, 2013)

I want a PS8, but these problems with noise floor are holdoing me back. I'd be using the factory head unit with aftermarket equipment. Any of you purchased a PS8 recently and used it with a factory head unit with success?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I have used mine with the OEM HU and my Alpine. It works great with either.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

Umm. I just received a cricket, or maybe it's a junebug. It was stuck on its back, so I gently turned it around with a Bentley flyer.

Which is perfectly fine with me.

On a different note, I am in urgent need of somebody who can help me retrieve a stolen S63 AMG without waking up the whole town. I don't mind the hovering cop, I'm a saint myself, but this is about as much **** as I can take.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

oca123 said:


> Umm. I just received a cricket, or maybe it's a junebug. It was stuck on its back, so I gently turned it around with a Bentley flyer.
> 
> Which is perfectly fine with me.
> 
> On a different note, I am in urgent need of somebody who can help me retrieve a stolen S63 AMG without waking up the whole town. I don't mind the hovering cop, I'm a saint myself, but this is about as much **** as I can take.


What's going on? I'll be driving past you either today or Saturday to pick up my mountain bike. Do you need help with something or someone?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I just need someone to talk to. I'll PM you my address.
Plus, I'd love to hear your system.


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## laroid (Jan 9, 2013)

Hey guys, I have had my PS8 for a very long time and have had no popping noise at all. I just this past two weeks been using the digital input and wow what a game changer.
I used a Razer Edge pro tablet, installed a 1 tera byte ssd and drivers for a Highface m2tech usb sound card. on the tablet I used Media Monkey player. Had to have Quicktime to play apple lossless files. And I can also play flac files too, as well as others. I switched back to my Alpine INE W927HD and played the exact music files to compare SQ. I currently am going through the win 8 kernel so that I can adjust the volume level, but can also charge the driver for direct digital stream for even better audio(need a PS8 controller). All I can say is that even through windows kernel as a digital out into the PS8 is astounding in clarity and focus. looking to install tablet with docking in car.


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

..... what? I demand to see pictures of what you describe...


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## lbp775 (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm curious as well.


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## laroid (Jan 9, 2013)

I took a few pics, but can't attach jpgs. I could email them if you like. I still don't have the tablet mounted. Picked up a Griffen powermate volume control. It was a complete waste of money. Would like to use steering wheel controls, but nobody can interface to windows....yet.


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