# Butyl Rope or Foam under speaker mount



## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

So real quick. When mounting a door speaker to the actual adapter. Should one use butyl rope or some type of foam. I would normally use a type of thin foam tape but been watching and reading installs. Some guys prefer butyl rope behind the speaker mount before screwing down to close up air gaps. So the car will have a half inch to 3/4 MDF speaker adapter, than speaker mounted to that. I will go ahead and spray the adapters in a trunk liner material rather than just black paint. 

So maybe this, foam in between door skin and adapter, butyl rubber in-between adapter and speaker.

Is this the correct/proper tactic.

I'm planning out my full stereo install I will probaly do over Xmas to new year's timeframe. Just wanting to all this once and right the first time, rather than oh I should have done that. Car will have a full treatment of sound deadoning to interior and exterior skins along with the door card. It's an Infiniti G35 and I have plenty of room to do a CLD tile, MLV and CCF layer setup.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Swaglife81 said:


> So real quick. When mounting a door speaker to the actual adapter. Should one use butyl rope or some type of foam....
> So maybe this, foam in between door skin and adapter, butyl rubber in-between adapter and speaker.
> 
> Is this the correct/proper tactic.
> ...


yes, yes and yes.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

It would work well but here there are other options or ideas.

HDPE or ABS plastic, would be better than mdf but you can put bedliner coating on the mdf

Most pros, don't use sticky stuff between the inner door and the ring baffle, ccf is good, or simply a layer of cld, inner door cld, baffle, ccf, speaker, and OCF over the speaker or FAST rings, then maybe the caulk or butyl rope sealing the potential gap between the speaker and the door but on the edge, like 1/8" thick around the speaker circumference.

These 2 videos are good, some of the techniques could be applied 


https://youtu.be/h3EXuHlBy4M


https://youtu.be/S7WKCFHGwRY


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## grinkeeper (Jun 26, 2015)

decoupling


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

grinkeeper said:


> decoupling


It won't be decoupled, the screws still couple it to the baffle.


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## tRidiot (Jun 29, 2006)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> It won't be decoupled, the screws still couple it to the baffle.


I use butyl between the speaker and the baffle. Often between the baffle and the inner doorskin as well. Some vehicles have a very irregular doorskin and you can't get a good flat place without using the (****ty) stock plastic mount or something. Also, if you've cut your doorskin to accommodate a larger speaker (like me), you're more unlikely to have a true flat surface to mount to.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

i just use 1/4 foam weatherstripping. don't over think it. butyl will be a mess if you ever take the speakers or the adapters off.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

tRidiot said:


> I use butyl between the speaker and the baffle. Often between the baffle and the inner doorskin as well. Some vehicles have a very irregular doorskin and you can't get a good flat place without using the (****ty) stock plastic mount or something. Also, if you've cut your doorskin to accommodate a larger speaker (like me), you're more unlikely to have a true flat surface to mount to.


Definitely not saying it won't work as you've described, just that it won't decouple.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

jtaudioacc said:


> i just use 1/4 foam weatherstripping. don't over think it. butyl will be a mess if you ever take the speakers or the adapters off.




That is what I meant about sticky stuff, that can get dust or get on areas we don't want like the glass or other things.

Trying to duplicate the factory adapter or mounting part like one of the videos posted, will eliminate, gaps or none flat areas assuming the speaker or magnet is not bigger and the door opening does not have to be cut bigger.

Sometimes bonding 2 pieces, the ring to another 1/4"-3/8" plate, and screwing the plate to the door takes care of gaps that can be present just between a ring baffle and the door, then dealing or sealing the gaps between the plate or frame and the door may be easier.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I use Extruded Butyl Rope, stretched thin and squiggled over the surface, between the mounting plate and inner door skin. Not only makes an airtight seal but creates a vibration damper in place. Prefer a CCF gasket between the speaker and mounting plate since it's neater and I don't think you gain much using EBR on that interface.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Yep, what Don said makes the most sense. The only way you truly get a decoupled speaker is if you do like ErinH did in his build with the 10's. As far as I can tell, the butyl rope IS what is mounting the speakers in the kicks.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Thanks for the replies guys. Wasn't expecting so much input. It's appreciated. Here are pics of what the front and rear door factory speaker adapters look like with the speakers removed. I haven't gotten the actual speakers yet. I do agree about abs plastic. So scratch the MDF adapters. I seriously doubt I can reuse the factory mounts but I haven't done an install on a G35 before so just have to see.
I'm gonna have plenty of foam, MLV and CLD tiles, etc as I'm gonna do most of the car. The foam pieces that go around the speaker that protrude out like 2-3 inches and hit the door card will be added also be added. So I guess just use thin CCF rather than rope. Should I use the factory pod type setup behind speaker that's like a half enclosure or just use something behind the back wave like a 8x8 piece. The rest of the door I'm good on what I'm going to do.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

No need to worry about the back wave, as long as you have CLD on the outer door, a rain shield is more important, I made some from none sticky ccf and zip ties to attach them, 2 pieces, the top overlapping the one behind the magnet attaching them to the basket frame, some speaker's frames may not make it easier to hang the ccf pieces, an you may have to be creative.

And quite a few of the more than qualified guys posting here, can confirm the backwave is not reduced or the sound will improve with a rubber pad on the outer door behind the speaker


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## tRidiot (Jun 29, 2006)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Definitely not saying it won't work as you've described, just that it won't decouple.





TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Yep, what Don said makes the most sense. The only way you truly get a decoupled speaker is if you do like ErinH did in his build with the 10's. As far as I can tell, the butyl rope IS what is mounting the speakers in the kicks.


Exactly... explain to me a way to mount speakers to a doorskin without actually attaching to the doorskin. If you screw speakers in, no, they're not truly 100% decoupled, but all you can do it what you can do, right? How the hell can you mount to a door without actually mounting to a door? "Decoupling" is a progressively esoteric (and vastly overblown) concept.

And there's no mess with mine using butyl, I've taken them in and out, replaced speakers multiple times. I use good quality butyl from SDS and it will get softer in high heat, but it has yet to ever run or turn into pure goop.

Some of the "advice" given or "knowledge" expressed on this forum, I swear.... lol.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

tRidiot said:


> Exactly... explain to me a way to mount speakers to a doorskin without actually attaching to the doorskin. If you screw speakers in, no, they're not truly 100% decoupled, but all you can do it what you can do, right? How the hell can you mount to a door without actually mounting to a door? "Decoupling" is a progressively esoteric (and vastly overblown) concept.
> 
> And there's no mess with mine using butyl, I've taken them in and out, replaced speakers multiple times. I use good quality butyl from SDS and it will get softer in high heat, but it has yet to ever run or turn into pure goop.
> 
> Some of the "advice" given or "knowledge" expressed on this forum, I swear.... lol.


In the ideal environment, there is actually some evidence that decoupling improves sound. I remember a white paper where an engineer (I think Andy Jones) placed an accelerometer on the cone, and tested with the speaker rigidly mounted and then fully decoupled. Both the measurements and listening tests showed better performance when fully decoupled.

That said, there's only one way I can think of to do it in a door, and it's bulky and complicated. Plus, the door itself is far more of a problem than whether the speaker is decoupled or not.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Couldn't you just bolt it with nuts, an undersized bolt, washers, and a some good CCF in between the washers and mounting surface? Then the bolt and nut act like a decoupled clamp opposed to a bolt and washer making contact.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Alrojoca said:


> No need to worry about the back wave, as long as you have CLD on the outer door, a rain shield is more important, I made some from none sticky ccf and zip ties to attach them, 2 pieces, the top overlapping the one behind the magnet attaching them to the basket frame, some speaker's frames may not make it easier to hang the ccf pieces, an you may have to be creative.
> 
> And quite a few of the more than qualified guys posting here, can confirm the backwave is not reduced or the sound will improve with a rubber pad on the outer door behind the speaker


Any pics of your rain shield by chance. 

If anything other than cld tiles on the outer door skin isn't needed than I won't put anything behind the speaker. I have a lot of room inside these door panels compared to some other cars. So I guess in this case more isn't best. 

I agree with the above, I guess I'm overthinking it.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I've used these a bunch of times.

XTC 6-1/2" Round Small Frame Foam Baffle Pair


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Swaglife81 said:


> Any pics of your rain shield by chance.
> 
> If anything other than cld tiles on the outer door skin isn't needed than I won't put anything behind the speaker. I have a lot of room inside these door panels compared to some other cars. So I guess in this case more isn't best.
> 
> I agree with the above, I guess I'm overthinking it.


This, might give you an idea or a starting point, this ccf was about 1/4"- 3/16" thick, I never had any issues, and I would not know if 1/8" thick ccf would work being lighter and thinner.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

I'm excited to be honest. It's been about 10 plus years since I've done a full out audio install. I kept that car over a decade so really didn't need to do another install. Anxious on how the end result will be. As is, I have alot of vibration, road noise, wind noise with the factory G35 setup. Better than alot of cars but far from audiophile good


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

From what I read those old infinities G35's are very easy to work on, panel removal, doors etc, one of the easiest of all, with full potential and pleasant results.

Good luck with it.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

Alrojoca said:


> No need to worry about the back wave, as long as you have CLD on the outer door, a rain shield is more important, I made some from none sticky ccf and zip ties to attach them, 2 pieces, the top overlapping the one behind the magnet attaching them to the basket frame, some speaker's frames may not make it easier to hang the ccf pieces, an you may have to be creative.
> 
> And quite a few of the more than qualified guys posting here, can confirm the backwave is not reduced or the sound will improve with a rubber pad on the outer door behind the speaker


You mention CLD behind the speaker as being sufficient but earlier mentioned FAST rings as a solution. Don't FAST rings come with a sound absorber that sticks to the outer door skin behind the speaker?


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Fast rings has a 3 piece foam setup. One that goes behind the speaker. I'll use CLD tiles on the outer door and probably try out the full fast ring foam since it comes with 3 pieces anyway. I wasn't sure of the brand name prior to this post. So knew they were foam rings. 

Like the above said the G35 is like the easiest access most convenient door assembly you could ever want. That's why I looked deep into my options on deadoning. I can access almost all of the outter skin along with outer part of the inner skin. It's just a perfect situation I can do a full layered deadener, absorber, insulator, so on and so on


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## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

nevermind, found the foam:









Frost King 3/8 in. x 3/16 in. x 17 ft. Grey Vinyl Foam Weatherseal Tape V443H - The Home Depot


The vinyl tape can be used for both indoors and outdoors because it is water resistant. It is suitable for a multitude of uses. An extremely versatile self-stick tape with medium compression.



www.homedepot.com


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