# Looking for a tweeter that produces every sound acurately while sounding smooth



## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, I'm looking for a tweeter that will produce lifelike realism to cymbals,male and female vocals,and everything a tweeter produces, that not only sounds good at low volumes, but maintains their composure at the higher volume levels without every instrument seemingly blending together when you get into the lifelike high volumes ,while sounding very smooth.Aka the fun part of listening for me. Is it going to half to be a scanspeak model or a dynaudio esotar to get to this critical listening level, or is there something better or equal to these that will fill my needs.Also not interested in metal dome tweeters.Thanks


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Depending on where you cross them I have not been dissapointed by the vifa XT25...


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

Be careful when you ask for "lifelike" realism from cymbals. Real cymbals will make you wince and they don't sound smooth at all.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Never realized that about cymbals. Just thought it would be good to have all the instruments produced by the tweeter sound accurate with no harshness. Was hoping for more responses to this question from people with experience, so I didn't half to buy a tweeter blindly.Only to find out from others experience that there were better ,equal or cheaper tweeters that were on par with the scanspeak and esotar tweeters.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Wesayso said:


> Depending on where you cross them I have not been dissapointed by the vifa XT25...


X 2


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## nigeDLS (Nov 5, 2011)

The smaller Scan ring radiator is very good, and considerably cheeper than the Esotar


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

So am I, that's why I have a drawer full of them. Let me know when you find it.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

There must be tweeters that are head and shoulders above the rest.You can tune junk all you want but it will still be junk.I'd rather make the tuning part of it easier and more rewarding by tuning a high quality tweeter and just install quality once.These forums must have people that have tried the higher end tweeters and can eliminate fact from fiction.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

coomaster1 said:


> There must be tweeters that are head and shoulders above the rest.You can tune junk all you want but it will still be junk.I'd rather make the tuning part of it easier and more rewarding by tuning a high quality tweeter and just install quality once.These forums must have people that have tried the higher end tweeters and can eliminate fact from fiction.


i think your seriously doubting the power of a good install and tune...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

coomaster1 said:


> There must be tweeters that are head and shoulders above the rest.You can tune junk all you want but it will still be junk.I'd rather make the tuning part of it easier and more rewarding by tuning a high quality tweeter and just install quality once.These forums must have people that have tried the higher end tweeters and can eliminate fact from fiction.


you need to factor more into the equation than just the tweeter...just buying a $500 scan tweeter is not a guarantee you will achieve your goal. Music will only sound "right" when you address all frequencies.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

I hope you didn't take my post too seriously.

No matter what, you are asking for opinions. People can also give distortion figures and response graphs which really won't tell you much either. The XT25's seem to be very nice tweeters based on what people say. Does that mean i'll like them?, maybe. Don't discount a tweeter based on material either, I have liked hard domes and soft domes for different reasons, I don't prefer one or the other in particular. I get what you are saying, You want to install, tune, and listen. 

I really hope you find what you are looking for on the first shot. But here's where the addiction part comes in. You'll get it install it and tune it. Then you'll tune some more, and a little more. Something will not sound quite right. So you buy another set and tune them. Before you know it you'll have a drawer full of tweeters also. 

Get the xt's, they seem like a good bet, and the price is right.


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## mkeets (Oct 6, 2011)

I think large format is your best bet. Do people even do searches on their own anymore? lol. Jeeze I just googled "tweeter review diyma" and this is the first thing that pops up: 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...parisons/7256-diyma-tweeter-reviews-more.html


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

mkeets said:


> I think large format is your best bet. Do people even do searches on their own anymore? lol. Jeeze I just googled "tweeter review diyma" and this is the first thing that pops up:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...parisons/7256-diyma-tweeter-reviews-more.html


Why is large format his best bet? 

This test is b.s. imo. Don't get me wrong, the guy did a great job. He got a wide range of tweeters. He made sure the listening area was well damped. He listened to specified tracks. He took notes. And in the end, gave his *opinion*. There's nothing wrong with that but it's what i'm trying to say. *We all perceive sound differently.* You won't find heaven with a single purchase. It takes time, money, and patience. And that imo, is the fun part of the hobby.


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## mkeets (Oct 6, 2011)

Spyke said:


> Why is large format his best bet?
> 
> This test is b.s. imo. Don't get me wrong, the guy did a great job. He got a wide range of tweeters. He made sure the listening area was well damped. He listened to specified tracks. He took notes. And in the end, gave his *opinion*. There's nothing wrong with that but it's what i'm trying to say. *We all perceive sound differently.* You won't find heaven with a single purchase. It takes time, money, and patience. And that imo, is the fun part of the hobby.


The reason I posted that link is because the OP wants subjective opinions which is what the thread I posted has. There were also links for about 5 other _subjective_ reviews by other people. If he wants subjective opinions that link has the opinions of many members on this site since I believe it said there were multiple members that took a listen during that test.


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm not sure ill ever change out my Cal27's...lol. I do like them a lot and XO at 5k they are supper smooth and very easy on the ears.


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

oilman said:


> I'm not sure ill ever change out my Cal27's...lol. I do like them a lot and XO at 55k they are supper smooth and very easy on the ears.


Of course they are....you can't hear **** at 55Khz

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Just like a box can influence the sound of a subwoofer, a bad box can make even the best subs sound awful. It's the same with a tweeter and a bad install.

You have to pick the right tweeter and most importantly cross it over correctly. I know there's a lot of really nit-picky people that run line arrays of simple cheap piezo tweeters, just with the horns removed. They actually sound very good when used as an array because without the horn they lose a lot of efficiency but end up sounding much smoother.

And tweeters are tweeters, don't try to push them into reproducing vocals. Even though the frequency response charts say they can go down to 1000 hz with the 1" domes, with the impedance rise that you get you're going to get some funky response with a passive crossover and possible phase issues. This can be addressed somewhat with an all active system but you still have an impedance rise. So it's better to just cross them over higher at like 2000-3000.

If you need clear vocals get a midrange, that's what they're for. Or get a midtweeter that can cleanly reproduce vocals and most of the high frequency range, honestly above 16kz there's hardly any music information and unless you're very careful with your listening habits like I am you probably lost a lot of your 16khz+ hearing.

But even then with a mid-tweeter there'll be problems. Mid-tweeters tend to be larger so they may roll off earlier in the frequency response range and larger diameter drivers have a tendency to beam. So placement is even more critical. Actually beaming might be good if you plan on using them in reflected arrangement, but then you have to take into account time delay.

Basically just like a subwoofer throwing money at tweeters doesn't guarantee you good highs. It's also just as much about installs just like subwoofers. I've had very good luck installing cheap textile dome tweeters when I simply crossed them over higher. They sounded fantastic and they were only $20 a pair. I simply matched them with some woofers that had good response up to the 4kz range. Sure those wide range woofers had a little trouble with bass but they were real champs with vocals, bass of course was supplied in spades with a good subwoofer.

Things like this are you learn when you're forced to work with an extremely limited budget when you can't simply throw money at things but you still want the best possible sound.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

No one for ribbons?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

so..no metals.... beryllium is off the table? 
Dude there is no one single tweeter sounding better then next competitor, tune is the key if you start with quality tweet, and not necessarily most expensive one.
some cheaper wifas can sound amazing if tuned properly, Esotars can sound like crap if you crossed them too low. best sounding tweet is correctly crossed and powered one. 
some metal domes can be surprisingly smooth, detailed and lifelike. If ou don't have tuning abilty just buy what known to be good and call it a day.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Ultimateherts said:


> No one for ribbons?


too big for car application.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

It's all subjective, plus you need a tweeter that fits well with your mid. Are you running a 2 way or a 3 way system? Does your tweeter need to be able to play down low to meet your mid etc. To me your looking for the Holy Grail of tweeters, but there is no such thing. All tweets have different attributes they bring to the table. It's good to know what attributes you favor and what speakers deliver that. Me personally, I don't need a tweeter that plays low, generally tweeters that play low don't have as good of a high end extensions, it's a give and take. That's why I like 4 ways systems and speaker playing a narrower frequency range. Anyway things to think about. Also why no metal domes?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

the hertz ht 28 sounds like exactly what you want. I like more liveliness so I went to quart but they were very detailed and so smooth, never needed to eq between songs.

or morel mt22/23


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

SoundJunkie said:


> Of course they are....you can't hear **** at 55Khz
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Ok maybe there was an extra 5 in my crossover.


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

Coolmaster1, kindly elaborate on your system layout thus far. The original question asked is a bit vague without knowing the amplifiers & processing.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

coomaster1 said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a tweeter that will produce lifelike realism to cymbals,male and female vocals,and everything a tweeter produces, that not only sounds good at low volumes, but maintains their composure at the higher volume levels without every instrument seemingly blending together when you get into the lifelike high volumes ,while sounding very smooth.Aka the fun part of listening for me. Is it going to half to be a scanspeak model or a dynaudio esotar to get to this critical listening level, or is there something better or equal to these that will fill my needs.Also not interested in metal dome tweeters.Thanks


i have a drawer full of tweeters (focal, scan, vifa aluminum, vifa ring radiator, alpine ring radiator)

the ones that managed to stay in my car are also the most detailed, realistic (especially cymbals) and smooth. plus they are an amazing bargain. 

Boston Acoustics ISTS Imaging System Type-S1 1" Kortec® dome tweeters at Crutchfield.com

Boston Acoustics US)


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies.I have the alpine anniversary 7909 deck,an alpine 3321 equalizer,for front stage I have large format alpine,dynaudio 6022 tweeters in the sail panels,in the lower part of my doors I have a 4 inch focal utopia midrange and a little higher in the door I have a 6 1/2 seas lotus 165/RW1. For the rear deck,Yes I know,Rip out the rear stuff you will say,It is mutling up my sound and pulling the sound to the rear and all that bad stuff,but for me ,when faded to match everything else it just makes for a fuller sounding stereo with no sound being pulled to the rear.Been running it like this since 1988.so please don't turn the thread into rear speakers need to go thread.Lets just keep it tweeters.As a matter of fact my rear sound is better than my front.In the rear deck I have a two way which consists simply of alpine spxf17t 6 1/2 inch midranges and another 2 large format 6022 dynaudio ,alpine tweeters. In the trunk I have 2 alpine 3544 amplifiers and one alpine 1505 amp for two oldschool very efficient papercone alpine 6012 subwoofers.with all the sounds being separated up by 4 large Spx-f17t crossovers. I know I will also take flac for running passives as well.I like to keep the stereo simplified ,and they have allowed me to do that.I will be switching to pioneer dexp99rs active settability later in the future.I have also read all those tweeter reviews and purchased the peerless HDS 810921 because of it,also owned morel mdt 30,berringer ribbons,they didn't sound bad but it's very cold up here and ribbons and winter don't mix to well,Focal tn 51 ,tn52,didn't like the sound of them at all,small format scanspeak that came with alpine spx f17t set.Sound wasn't bad from them,just don't like the sound of small format tweeters for me.Like the tweeter.The sound is also small sounding.I think what could help any tweeter sound better in any vehicle is if they made an adjustable mounting bracket like your rear view mirror that you could adjust like your mirror 360 degrees so you could position it perfectly,and then when you got it positioned perfectly for your car,there was some kind of locking mechanism that kept it at the optimum position.I don't find it fun like some people to keep tweaking and swapping drivers and tweeters ,etc in and out.I hate it.I pretty much like the sound.,Just think the tweeter sound could be a lot better.The cymbals don't really sound like a cymbal,sound more like a glorified hiss.I've always liked the sound of large format soft domes.You can listen for hours without that much fatigue. Most of car audio tweeters are small format,I'd prefer to stick to the large format tweeters.Since so many of you guys actually enjoy swapping and experimenting with different drivers and tweeters,I'm pretty sure all of you are the people I need to talk to that have tried and found or disgarded which tweeter sounds better overall with all types of music.I know you don't get something quality for nothing,but if there are some large format tweeters that are surpassing or giving the big boys a run for their money .I and other would definitely like to hear about it. Thanks


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Try this one...
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/139948-morel-supremo-piccolo-tweeters-lightly-used-box.html

Never seen a bad review and these seem to be priced low for those tweeters.

But in all honesty, reading about your setup I bet you can achieve more with an install upgrade instead of changing speakers. Seriously! Spend some time learning how this stuff works and you'll get better sound with what you have now by changing how you use it. There is a lot more to a good setup than throwing in the "best" speakers.

You obviously didn't look at the specs of my first suggestion and you're more focussed on price so it seems. Check out this Sonus Faber set: 








_Do the tweeters look familiar? Look at the price, You'll like it: http://www.pcdistrict.com/sonus-faber-cremona-m-speakers-prod135187.html_

Look at http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/ for a tweeter comparison. Read the comment on the Scan Speak. Also read the comment on the XT25. The tweeter I chose is on there too, getting a lesser review (the small XT25). But even the bigger model is available for not much money.

I'd say try to listen to the tweeters you are considering first. Don't get hung up on the best this and that. You might not even like the best tweeter...

Another idea. Try to listen to your current front tweeters by them selves, disconnect all other speakers. How do they sound now? It's very possible they sound much better by themselves. Having tweeters in the rear seems like a bad idea to me. Look up comb filtering and how that works.

What do you play as source material? If you're playing mp3 at ~ 160 bitrates or below you are not going to hear the real sound of those cymbals even with the best tweeters. Start over with higher bitrates. Even better (but not necessary, 320 will do, mp3 or aac) uncompressed.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I know I'm going to be flamed for this but here goes. If you want to ensure you get it right the first time and buy the last tweeter you will ever buy get the Dyn 110. Everyone knows I'm a huge Dyn fan but I've truly never heard anything that comes close on anything you throw at it. Nothing will touch the accuracy and realism. Ive never been content with a set of tweeters until now. For the first time I'm running zero eq as well. I do not think theres ever been a negative review. There are times they Still surprise me on something with a lot of subtle detail and then theres a cymbal clash that scares me out of nowhere but never artificially harsh. Ive found a tweeter for life. There's a set for sale in the classifieds right now.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I know I'm going to be flamed for this but here goes. If you want to ensure you get it right the first time and buy the last tweeter you will ever buy get the Dyn 110. Everyone knows I'm a huge Dyn fan but I've truly never heard anything that comes close on anything you throw at it. Nothing will touch the accuracy and realism. Ive never been content with a set of tweeters. I do not think theres ever been a negative review. There are times they Still surprise me on something with a lot of subtle detail and then theres a cymbal clash that scares me out of nowhere but never artificially harsh. Ive found a tweeter for life. There's a set for sale in the classifieds right now.


Dyn fan, reallly??? 

I've heard the 110 at two different occasions. They are without doubt really good tweeters, but there are several other tweeters that share their performance too you know 

-------------- To OP;

Scan 6600-7000-7100 are without doubt some of best tweeters available if you crossing them low, but there are cheaper alternitives. I've listened to a home audio system in the 100000$ range that used 2-way speakers with Peerless HDS tweets and Scan Classic 6,5" mids and the level of detail and realism in that system was astounding. Those tweets ain't even considered highend, costs like 100$/each. Vifa XT25 are a cheap version of the Scans, if you not crossing them low they have similar performance. I own both Scan 6600 and XT25 and if you not going below 3kHz, get the XT25. Peerless HDS are also nice, they have great performance down to 2kHz. The Scans can do 1500Hz with a steep slope. There's really no need for paying outrageous amounts of money on tweeters imo. There are several cheap drivers with "highend" performance if used in their intended frequency range. What you pay for is sometimes just better low-end extention.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> I know I'm going to be flamed for this but here goes. If you want to ensure you get it right the first time and buy the last tweeter you will ever buy get the Dyn 110. Everyone knows I'm a huge Dyn fan but I've truly never heard anything that comes close on anything you throw at it. Nothing will touch the accuracy and realism. Ive never been content with a set of tweeters until now. For the first time I'm running zero eq as well. I do not think theres ever been a negative review. There are times they Still surprise me on something with a lot of subtle detail and then theres a cymbal clash that scares me out of nowhere but never artificially harsh. Ive found a tweeter for life. There's a set for sale in the classifieds right now.


 Care to give a price on those?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> Care to give a price on those?


I believe they're $1,200 in that thread. I got my modded ones never used for $1000. I believe retail is $1800 to $1900 but no one pays retail

To add to that, the seller was nice enough to let me hook them up in my car and listen to quite a few familiar songs. Prior to that point I was probably not going buy another set of tweeters and my opinion was very similar to yours. During the first song I knew I would own these one day and this was in the exact same position as the ones I was currently running. 

I look at it this way, how much money do you have tied up in a drawer full of tweeters. Now imagine you could buy one set of tweeters even if they are expensive and never spend another dime on a set of tweeters again, at least not on the current install. I like trying new equipment occasionally but I much prefer to hear different equipment in other people's installs. I mostly just want to enjoy the music and not swap out equipment. If something is "off" I can't enjoy the music. With the current setup I just enjoy the music without thinking about the speakers or amps or processor.

Now that I have the equipment out of the way I can concentrate on tuning. I really wish you lived close by so you could hear it. I have plenty tuning to do, there's too much 100-300hz among other things but you can still get a good idea of how well the tweeters perform.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Maybe one day. I might not be as particular as you yet, and though I have been interested in audio for about 15 years, I have increased my knowledge by about 20x's since my join date 8 months ago. I am happy with my $30 tweeters for now but on the other hand I would prob be just as happy with any of the $30 tweeters from my drawer. I went through a phase of constantly switching equipment until I realized that it wasn't the equipment, it was my tuning. So yeah the 20 pairs of tweeters was a lesson learned in a way. I don't doubt that the 110's are anything short of magic, but it's too soon for me to drop a grand on a set of tweeters.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

qwertydude said:


> Basically just like a subwoofer throwing money at tweeters doesn't guarantee you good highs. It's also just as much about installs just like subwoofers. I've had very good luck installing cheap textile dome tweeters when I simply crossed them over higher. They sounded fantastic and they were only $20 a pair. I simply matched them with some woofers that had good response up to the 4kz range. Sure those wide range woofers had a little trouble with bass but they were real champs with vocals, bass of course was supplied in spades with a good subwoofer.





avanti1960 said:


> i have a drawer full of tweeters (focal, scan, vifa aluminum, vifa ring radiator, alpine ring radiator)
> 
> the ones that managed to stay in my car are also the most detailed, realistic (especially cymbals) and smooth. plus they are an amazing bargain.
> 
> ...


Have to agree here, used a lot of soft dome 1" and had great luck with them. Even cheap home 1" domes were some of the best sounding. Radio shack used to have some for $8 each many years back that worked well. I always ran them at 5K xover at the lowest, but note that was just a cap so it was 6db slope. I gave up on active as I could get similar results fine tuning the cap/install even up to running resistors on them at times to cut them back.

The old silk dome BA were some of my favorites but not heard the new ones.

You can spend what you want, after installing high end stuff way back I came to the conclusion that with some work I could find a cheap tweeter that worked as well....as posted above in the home speakers. I never paid more than 100 for a set, often bought used. I've always had too many other toys to spend on to invest that much lol not sure how people do that unless they have big pockets or limited hobbies. Not saying expensive tweets are not good or that people recommending them are wrong.

I have contemplated trying to run a 1.5-2" dome mid (maybe a dayton) and just a tiny hard dome .5" or something way up high passive but this car is not the one to do it in, or just try to EQ the top end in with no tweet. The larger domes just seem to work that well for me but never got around to running much over 1" domes. Domes are also more forgiving of install/aiming.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I have other hobbies that are more expensive than this one the secret is no kids. I'll be married by summer and kids are in the very near future so this is my last fling of sorts. Will I ever spend a grand on tweeters again, probably not but hopefully I'll never feel the need to upgrade. 

Another point is these tweeters are not bandwidth limited within reason. If I ever go back to a 2-way these tweeters are more than capable of 2khz and up and more importantly they get everything right and I'm done shopping for equipment other than a pair or trio of 13w7s.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for everyones great options so far. I will take everyones idea, and fine tune everything to the max.I plan on doing a major upgrade to the existing stereo this spring by doubling the power of the stereo and running 5 alpine 3544 amps instead of two, and doubling up the power to the two subs for more headroom to everything, and swapping out the passive crossovers for a fully active crossover.Just by doing that alone, I should get overall better dynamics.Then I will have it professionally tuned,and if I half to.I will find someone with an RTA machine to get it set as best as it can. After that,if it still doesn't sound right, and tweeters seem to be still lacking .I will sell one of the cars that I'm not using and check of a pair of dynaudio 110 tweeters or some scanspeak. I actually heard that the dynaudio t330 tweeters were supposed to be better sounding than the dynaudio 110 tweeters when compared head to head for sound quality. If so I would rather have those.Anybody else tried them both to know for sure.Not ruling out scanspeak either.Sure wish I didn't live in a small town so I could swap them in and out quickly to see for myself, which are truly the best sounding in my system.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

coomaster1 said:


> Thanks for everyones great options so far. I will take everyones idea, and fine tune everything to the max.I plan on doing a major upgrade to the existing stereo this spring by doubling the power of the stereo and running 5 alpine 3544 amps instead of two, and doubling up the power to the two subs for more headroom to everything, and swapping out the passive crossovers for a fully active crossover.Just by doing that alone, I should get overall better dynamics.Then I will have it professionally tuned,and if I half to.I will find someone with an RTA machine to get it set as best as it can. After that,if it still doesn't sound right, and tweeters seem to be still lacking .I will sell one of the cars that I'm not using and check of a pair of dynaudio 110 tweeters or some scanspeak. I actually heard that the dynaudio t330 tweeters were supposed to be better sounding than the dynaudio 110 tweeters when compared head to head for sound quality. If so I would rather have those.Anybody else tried them both to know for sure.Not ruling out scanspeak either.Sure wish I didn't live in a small town so I could swap them in and out quickly to see for myself, which are truly the best sounding in my system.


If you have a smartphone, JL audio has a free rta app thats pretty accurate. Theres a few rta phone apps that do pretty good jobs.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for Rta heads up. I thought it had to be a specialized big machine that did your Rtaing. Those darn phones seem to be able to do everything.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

sqshoestring said:


> Have to agree here, used a lot of soft dome 1" and had great luck with them. Even cheap home 1" domes were some of the best sounding. Radio shack used to have some for $8 each many years back that worked well. I always ran them at 5K xover at the lowest, but note that was just a cap so it was 6db slope. I gave up on active as I could get similar results fine tuning the cap/install even up to running resistors on them at times to cut them back.
> 
> The old silk dome BA were some of my favorites but not heard the new ones.
> 
> ...


Tried these?

Dayton Audio ND20FA-6 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter 275-030

I'm not suggesting these as the tweeter the op is looking for but they are some sweet sounding tweets.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Pretty good reviews for such a cheap tweeter.I may try a set of those on some older home speakers, and see if they are as good as the reviews say.No dynaudio esotar, but they also don't come with a thousand dollar price tag.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

coomaster1 said:


> Pretty good reviews for such a cheap tweeter.I may try a set of those on some older home speakers, and see if they are as good as the reviews say.No dynaudio esotar, but they also don't come with a thousand dollar price tag.


Not exactly a large format tweeter as stated as in your original quest either.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

coomaster1 said:


> Pretty good reviews for such a cheap tweeter.I may try a set of those on some older home speakers, and see if they are as good as the reviews say.No dynaudio esotar, but they also don't come with a thousand dollar price tag.


Buy 50 of them.

For $40 a pair it's worth a try. I have these and also the nd16's which are the 5/8". Very non fatiguing.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

How many of these "under $1,000" tweeters do you think you will buy before it's all over? If you enjoy trying new equipment, go for it. If you want it to be over and just enjoy the music, you might consider something else. 

Here's one review from a member that was previously running Supremos, Esotars are not cheap but they're worth it.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/44434-dyna-esotars.html


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Here's a few great drivers: 

(recommended highpass)

* Seas Prestige H1283 22TAF/G (2,5kHz) 
Near perfect frequency response. Very good HD performance down to 2kHz.

* Vifa XT25 (3kHz)
Near perfect frequency response, very good performance above 3kHz. Ring radiator design.

* Peerless HDS 810921 (2kHz)
Really good 2-way driver since it can be crossed low, non-linear distortion products are very low. Tested and used in quite a few designs for home audio. Might need some EQ above 8kHz.

* Scan-Speak 6600-7000-7100 (1kHz)
"State of the art" drivers, all of them. Can be used really low, warm tonality and got that hifi feeling to them. Not heard the 7100, but I'm guessing it's similar to 6600. Quite pricy but the build quality is superb. Among the best drivers for 2-way systems. 

There are several really good drivers from Dynaudio and Accuton as well, but the price tag is just ridiculous on some models. Buying used drivers is an alternative I guess.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Wesayso said:


> Not exactly a large format tweeter as stated as in your original quest either.





spyke said:


> I'm not suggesting these as the tweeter the op is looking for but they are some sweet sounding tweets.




This tweeter suggestion was intended more for sqshoestring. And no, they are about as small format as you can get. The 5/8" model is hilariously small.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> How many of these "under $1,000" tweeters do you think you will buy before it's all over? If you enjoy trying new equipment, go for it. If you want it to be over and just enjoy the music, you might consider something else.


I've tried countless drivers simply because it's fun. Given me a lot of experience as well. Not sure why you think everything from Dyn is superior to every other driver out there, I listened to Dyn systems and demo cars and everyone sounded really great but I've heard systems with cheap(er) raw drivers perform equally well. In fact it's tuning and install that matters the most. Most drivers can sound really good if used in their optimal reproduction range, the cheaper drivers normally don't like to be played below 2,5-3kHz or so. 

I agree with your argument that if you buy the best available stuff from the beginning, you'll save money in the long-run. I still don't agree that you really need to spend above 1000$ to get good drivers. In a 3-way front, my opinion is that it's pretty redundant to even spend money on the Scans. The performance lies in the low-end, if you not using them there a much cheaper driver can do the job equally as good. 

If someone here feel up for it, take any decent driver, highpass it at 4kHz/12dB. Then measure amplitude and frequency response, level them and EQ the FR to match. Blindfold yourself or something, have someone to switch between the drivers, see if you can hear a difference.

I failed this test about a year ago. Me and friend tried this at his house, took half a day to setup but it was worth it. The drivers were Scan 6600 and some Seas driver, 27TG something, never remembers the name... At 4kHz, we both failed in picking the better driver, down at 2,5kHz the Scan sounded better and the Seas driver started to sound harsh because of audible distortion. Not that it was a bad driver, it was just used outside it's usable range. 

How much we like to turn up the volume needs to considered as well, non-linear distortion components ain't that audible at low levels, when we're turning up the volume this distortion follows along. At 90dB/1m, which is the SPL I use to HD test midrange/tweeter drivers for comparison, distortion usually stays well below 1%. I did that klippel hearing test and I failed hearing a difference at 3% added distortion to the music even with good headphones. So if I don't hear the non-linear distortion at the given SPL, what difference is there? It's the frequency response and this can be corrected with EQ. Of course different drivers have different dispersion patterns which effectively alters the sound pretty much inside the car, so this should be considered too. Argument nr.2 is that above 4kHz, the first intrusive harmonic (3rd order) happens at 12kHz. This is an area where we're pretty insensitive to sound, exactly as with the low frequency material. I realize that several people can score better than 3% which I did on the klippel test, that test just proves that some hear better than others, whether if it's a trained ability or not I'm sure of but I'm pretty sure what to look for and what to spend money on nowadays. Unfortunately we don't always have the luxury to buy equipment for our needs and tune to our own preferences if we're competing. Not that I had much of an issue with this, this summer I applied for some EASCA regional competition to get my system judged. Used a pair of Vifa DX25 back then and scored 19/20 on the highs, was kinda surprised that the judge said it was among the best tweeters he had heard. I didn't even like those tweets and removed them like 1 month later =/ I actually tested those drivers against a few others, a month back or so and found out that they performed best in HD testing but had worse FR than the other drivers I preferred over them. Too long damn post and I'll quit my rambling now...

Here's that test btw: Listening Test


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

avanti1960 said:


> i have a drawer full of tweeters (focal, scan, vifa aluminum, vifa ring radiator, alpine ring radiator)
> 
> the ones that managed to stay in my car are also the most detailed, realistic (especially cymbals) and smooth. plus they are an amazing bargain.
> 
> ...


I agree. Those tweeters are bright and detailed yet not overbearing. I'm surprised they don't get more notice.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Jimi77 said:


> I agree. Those tweeters are bright and detailed yet not overbearing. *I'm surprised they don't get more notice.*


Maybe it's because they don't cost enough.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Spyke said:


> Maybe it's because they don't cost enough.


Chivas Regal effect.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Spyke said:


> Maybe it's because they don't cost enough.


There is a solution though. I am willing to start selling big format XT25 tweeters for $1000,00, no make that $ 1250,00. I bet they sound awesome when you get them from me!  Shipping will be extra though..

Or another solution, Buy some Scan 6600 Air Circ and mod them:
http://www.speakerdesign.net/scan_speak/tweeters/6600/6600_tweeter.html

That should work for anyone, we all now modded is the best! (in this case it might actually work out well!)


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

You guys and price. People get so defensive but many times more expensive is better and while you can find many good cheap tweeters they're not going to do what the Esotars do. Some people aren't concerned about price. Price always used as a last ditch effort to make one tweeter better than the other, usually the cheaper one. When I see high end comparisons, the Esotar is the one everything else is compared to. How many in this thread have run the 110 tweeter?


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

You are in a very small percentage of audiophiles. 95% of people will not spend $1k on a set of tweeters. That doesn't mean that the rest of us can't have perfectly accurate sound, or at least what sounds good to each person. Imo, I honestly don't believe that they are worth $940 more than my tweeters. Besides that, they are very large format. If you sit in my car, there is absolutely no hint that there is a system installed except for the hu. That is important to a lot of people for security and aesthetic reasons. Some people wouldn't want a $200 set of tweeters in plain view. As far as how they sound, I'll bet they sound awesome. But my $30 tweeters can def give me chills. You said that they require no eq. Well, mine may need some eq. Oh well. Point is: If I want a concert experience i'll sit in my living room and crank my tower speakers and sub. If I want something that'll sound good over all of the road noise and reflections that a car environment has to offer, i'll put $200 into my front stage and call it a day.

Edit: And I have run the 110 and didn't care for it one bit.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> You are in a very small percentage of audiophiles. 95% of people will not spend $1k on a set of tweeters. That doesn't mean that the rest of us can't have perfectly accurate sound, or at least what sounds good to each person. Imo, I honestly don't believe that they are worth $940 more than my tweeters. Besides that, they are very large format. If you sit in my car, there is absolutely no hint that there is a system installed except for the hu. That is important to a lot of people for security and aesthetic reasons. Some people wouldn't want a $200 set of tweeters in plain view. As far as how they sound, I'll bet they sound awesome. But my $30 tweeters can def give me chills. You said that they require no eq. Well, mine may need some eq. Oh well. Point is: If I want a concert experience i'll sit in my living room and crank my tower speakers and sub. If I want something that'll sound good over all of the road noise and reflections that a car environment has to offer, i'll put $200 into my front stage and call it a day.
> 
> Edit: And I have run the 110 and didn't care for it one bit.


Wait, you've run the Dynaudio 110 in your car and didn't care for it? Pictures? I call BS on this one, you're lying.

It sounds like our goals are different. I want concert sound in my car as well as the home. I have more time to listen to the system in the car than at home. It sounds like you want a mediocre system and your car has a ton of road noise and honestly, reflections are road noise are a copout. My car sounds better with these tweeters sitting idle with the engnie off just as it does going down the freeway at 80mph. You can't say the 110s are not worth it when you have never heard them.

My system is more stealth than most. Stock HU, amps under the seats, IB subs with a panel behind the subs matched to the stock carpeting that shows no signs of subs, and the tweeters can barely be seen from the outside, no more than the small formats in the stock dash locations or the stock tweeters for that matter. 

But all of this is meaningless, you're trying to change the topic, resorting to price, stealth, home audio, roadnoise. The topic is "Looking for a tweeter that produces every sound accurately while sounding smooth". I suggested the best tweeter for this, the Dyn 110. Stop being so insecure. Don't worry about what others spend, like you know something I don't know. I'm going to start making fun of you for running cheap ****, it's only fair, it can go both ways. Price is not always the number one factor in choosing audio equipment.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Here we go again 

Did I do it this time?

One question BuickGN, why stop with the tweeters? You know from well documented research you need a Sprinter van for best sound to go with your Dynaudio drivers. (just kidding)


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Wesayso said:


> There is a solution though. I am willing to start selling big format XT25 tweeters for $1000,00, no make that $ 1250,00. I bet they sound awesome when you get them from me!  Shipping will be extra though..


LOL! Outstanding post!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Wesayso said:


> Here we go again
> 
> Did I do it this time?
> 
> One question BuickGN, why stop with the tweeters? You know from well documented research you need a Sprinter van for best sound to go with your Dynaudio drivers. (just kidding)


No Sprinter in the near future, just a lot of tuning. I have put some thought into how much further I want to go with this car with stealth being first and foremost and the fact that it's nearly 7 years old now and I'll probably get a new car in the next year. I don't know what to do because I'm not going to sell this one so do I leave the system in it or transer it to the new car. Back when this thing was new I didn't want to modify it just because it was new and it took nearly 4 years before I did any cutting on it. That's not going to happen with the new car, i want to enjoy it from day one. I really don't want to buy all of this stuff again for another car so I may just do a JL C5 set in one of the cars, not sure which one and get 85% of the benefit for 1/10 the price lol. Or start with a processor on the stock stuff.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Wait, you've run the Dynaudio 110 in your car and didn't care for it? Pictures? I call BS on this one, you're lying.


No **** Buick.

Here are the large format tweeters I'm running, you can see they're a bit larger than any small format:

They're about the same overall size as the 3.5" midranges, 4" in diameter. I'll take a picture of them next to my small format tweeters that came out of the car.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> I know I'm going to be flamed for this but here goes. If you want to ensure you get it right the first time and buy the last tweeter you will ever buy get the Dyn 110. Everyone knows I'm a huge Dyn fan but I've truly never heard anything that comes close on anything you throw at it. Nothing will touch the accuracy and realism. Ive never been content with a set of tweeters until now. For the first time I'm running zero eq as well. I do not think theres ever been a negative review. There are times they Still surprise me on something with a lot of subtle detail and then theres a cymbal clash that scares me out of nowhere but never artificially harsh. Ive found a tweeter for life. There's a set for sale in the classifieds right now.


these look like excellent tweeters and i would love to hear them. they are expensive but if the sound justified the investment i would do it. however at that price point there is no way i would purchase them without lots of auditioning time and I never buy used hardware- period.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> *I'm going to start making fun of you for running cheap *****, it's only fair, it can go both ways. Price is not always the number one factor in choosing audio equipment.


I don't think that would work out too well for you.

No one is making fun of you. Don't be so insecure.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

avanti1960 said:


> these look like excellent tweeters and i would love to hear them. they are expensive but if the sound justified the investment i would do it. however at that price point there is no way i would purchase them without lots of auditioning time and I never buy used hardware- period.


Agreed. Luckily in this case I was able to see them and try them before purchase. They weren't used but they were modified with a smaller flange. That extra 1/2" in diameter makes a bigger difference than I thought when trying to mount them. Right now they actually don't stand out that bad on the dash. They have a grill from a Morel dome mid and look like an ordinary midrange. I wanted to put them in the kicks and maybe one day I will but I came to the conclusion along with another member who has the same car and speakers that the fusebox would have to be relocated and there's no chance of that happening.


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

Spyke said:


> Maybe it's because they don't cost enough.


Could be. They're also the lower Boston model. The BA metal tweeters are horrible IMHO.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> I don't think that would work out too well for you.
> 
> No one is making fun of you. Don't be so insecure.


Why would that not work out well for me? Because people can't handle somone questioning their spending habits as people have questioned mine?

Making fun might have been a bad choice in words but everytime someone buys $50 tweeters I'm going to ask why they spent so little, why are they being cheap in their tweeter selection. How many times have you ever seen someone question anyone about buying a $20 tweeter? Now try to find a single thread where price is not brought up when talking about expensive speakers. You need to remember that just because it's important to you, it's not important to everyone so why do you care what others do with their money.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Jimi77 said:


> Could be. They're also the lower Boston model. The BA metal tweeters are horrible IMHO.


agreed, the metal tweeters are bad. but the kortec textile domes are fantastic- people were buying the Boston SR50 and SR60 sets just for these tweeters. 
i read lots of reviews of those sets and most everyone loved those tweeters but found the woofers not that great. 
these things are a niche in a haystack.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Why would that not work out well for me? Because people can't handle somone questioning their spending habits as people have questioned mine?
> 
> Making fun might have been a bad choice in words but *everytime someone buys $50 tweeters I'm going to ask why they spent so little, why are they being cheap in their tweeter selection.*


That's fine, then everyone will just think you're an arrogant ass.


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

To sum things up. 

NEVER insult a man's tweeter.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

JVD240 said:


> To sum things up.
> 
> NEVER insult a man's tweeter.


Especially when they are designed to look like small boobs


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

out of all the tweets i have used, two jump right to mind, seas lotus reference RT27F, Illusion Audio Carbon tweeter. right out of the box, revealing, detailed, airy, yet never harsh, walks that fine line very well.

b


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> That's fine, then everyone will just think you're an arrogant ass.


Just as you sound like a jealous prick who feels the need to comment on equipment you can't afford and make assumptions that the buyers of high end equipment are somehow less educated or unable to make a rational decision to make yourself feel better. It goes both ways. 

If I could find a tweeter with every one of the Esotars qualities for $10 I would be all over it but that's not going to happen.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Wesayso said:


> Especially when they are designed to look like small boobs


Put a grill on your tweeters. Those would be too tempting to play with lol.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> Put a grill on your tweeters. Those would be too tempting to play with lol.


But I like em topless :surprised:


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

This is getting ridiculous. "The best tweeter"?? Have anyone here done a ABX test of all speakers mentioned here? I've heard the Esotar110 two times, several month between each listen. Thought it sounded really good both times, but what does this prove? It means nothing at all. Listening to speakers with applied tuning and in different installs and trying to compare this to other speakers is meaningless. First off, auditory memory lasts for a very short period of time, you need to switch directly between drivers without delay to compare. It also need to be a blind test, nobody is completely objective, especially when you paid for new stuff. Furthermore, almost everyone has a bias towards different brands and the unique sounding of some products. Combine a ABX blind test with measurements of FR, HD and IMD and you can make a valid statement on what's truly the best driver.

I've done these forms of tests and I can say that the price has little to do with what's good or not when it comes to speakers. It can be completely random, some cheap drivers are crap, some expensive drivers are also crap. There are less bad expensive drivers than there are bad cheap drivers though. But that does not mean some cheap drivers can't compare or outperform more expensive drivers. Stop going on about this price discussion, you need to test each driver individually regardless of price and find one that suit your preferences and in the end it comes down to what works best in our individual installations.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/133444-fs-scan-speak-tweeters.html


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I've been wanting to try some scans in another car. I'm probably going with the Dyn 130s for sale in here but the scans would be awfully tempting. The problem is the other car will have no eq (don't ask) and I wonder if that might make a difference in my choice.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Buick,

Have you tried the hertz ht28? Ive been through lots of tweeters and these were the smoothest and still detailed tweeter I ever used. Hardly any eq was needed. All songs, sounded accurate. I stuck with my qtd25s because I like a dynamic tweeter but its definitely smooth. More so than the morel mt23 or seas rt27f in my experience. 

At home I use these are they are phenomenal and my reference.










SEAS Prestige 29TFF/W

Also seas has a new compact silk dome out










http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-prestige-h615-25ttfn/g-textile-dome-tweeter/


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Just as you sound like a jealous prick who feels the need to comment on equipment you can't afford and make assumptions that the buyers of high end equipment are somehow less educated or unable to make a rational decision to make yourself feel better. It goes both ways.
> 
> If I could find a tweeter with every one of the Esotars qualities for $10 I would be all over it but that's not going to happen.


chad was right, this is fun.

This has really made the last few days enjoyable but I guess i'll stop now.

Your tweeters suck Buick.

Ok, *now* i'm done.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

tyroneshoes said:


> Buick,
> 
> Have you tried the hertz ht28? Ive been through lots of tweeters and these were the smoothest and still detailed tweeter I ever used. Hardly any eq was needed. All songs, sounded accurate. I stuck with my qtd25s because I like a dynamic tweeter but its definitely smooth. More so than the morel mt23 or seas rt27f in my experience.
> 
> ...


Those Seas look very nice. I can't say I've heard them but it sounds like they're worth trying out. Now that I FINALLY found a house I'm going to be revisiting my HT. Going to look at them now. Heck, if they are better than what I have now Ill put them in the car for a while. I'm the opposite of most people, I want the best drivers in the car.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Those Seas look very nice. I can't say I've heard them but it sounds like they're worth trying out. Now that I FINALLY found a house I'm going to be revisiting my HT. Going to look at them now. *Heck, if they are better than what I have now Ill put them in the car for a while. *


How could they be better than the Esotars?




BuickGN said:


> I'm the opposite of most people, I want the best drivers in the car.


Makes sense, put the best drivers in the worst acoustical environment.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Jimi77 said:


> Could be. They're also the lower Boston model. The BA metal tweeters are horrible IMHO.


The old school pro 6.4 set has some nice metaldomes imo...

Wavecor has also some great high-end stuff, not too expensive and various diameters, magnets and with or without ferrofluid.. i can recommend them.. just look at some specs...

Exact! audio has the 22mm tweeter built by wavecor but to own specs and without flange but with a nice alu ring with very open mesh.. 
http://exactaudio.de/html/high_end/komp_hx22tg.php


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

SB Acoustics has some interesting stuff as well. Some of old ScanSpeak employees founded SB-A fyi.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Hanatsu said:


> SB Acoustics has some interesting stuff as well. Some of old ScanSpeak employees founded SB-A fyi.


true story..


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> bHow could they be better than the Esotars?



Still pissed, huh? They're probably not but you have to keep an open mind.


Spyke said:


> Makes sense, put the best drivers in the worst acoustical environment.


It makes perfect sense. I listen to music more in the car than in the home. I have some average speakers and my IB15s in the car are going in the home. Since I don't listen to music at home, all I want is a little rumble and decent dynamics but it doesn't have to be perfect for movies. Due to the bad environment of a car I want to start with the best possible driver so I don't have to deal with one more issue. The "worst acoustical environment" excuse is just that, an excuse for your **** equipment. Don't have you another 6 pack of tweeters to buy. If the truth were known you probably have more money in your tweeters than I do in mine. Aren't you the guy that just recently thought ported was no louder than sealed, it just "sounded different"?


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Still pissed, huh? They're probably not but you have to keep an open mind.


I don't get pissed about forum arguments. This has actually been quite entertaining for me. 



BuickGN said:


> It makes perfect sense. I listen to music more in the car than in the home. I have some average speakers and my IB15s in the car are going in the home. Since I don't listen to music at home, all I want is a little rumble and decent dynamics but it doesn't have to be perfect for movies. Due to the bad environment of a car I want to start with the best possible driver so I don't have to deal with one more issue. The "worst acoustical environment" excuse is just that, an excuse for your **** equipment. Don't have you another 6 pack of tweeters to buy. If the truth were known you probably have more money in your tweeters than I do in mine. *Aren't you the guy that just recently thought ported was no louder than sealed, it just "sounded different"?*


Yup that was me. I'm sure there's a lot of common knowledge that I don't know yet. You were just born knowing everything right? 

**** equipment? It's decent. I don't go around talking about how great it is or anything, but it does what I need it to do. So you have an ms8, 2 ib 15's, 9" midbasses, $1k tweeters and you can get good sound? Well no ****. I'd be worried if you didn't have a concert on wheels. And yes the automotive environment is pretty awful acoustically. But I don't use it as an excuse, I don't need to.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

No one can win this debate, so give it up allready. Choose what you want to choose and leave it at that. No way of knowing what is the best tweeter or woofer though. There are as many as there are taste differences.
Choose what works for you. Sure it makes sense to start with something good but doesn't that apply to all things? Why not start with a quiet car, big differences there.
People choose based on different priorities. I drive a 30 year old Porsche 911 daily and some think I am crazy. I drive it trough snow and rain. Why? Because I enjoy it.
Is it a wise choise? Probably not, with all the salt on the roads here in winters. But I have more fun in that car than any I had before it. It's not the best, it's not the fastest but it IS my choise. 
So Spyke has a budget audio wise. BuickGN wants the best audio equipment... different priority, that's all. I just like music and the chase of making it sound good, no not good, I have that allready, great in the car. But not trough buying gear but improving what I got. I like that chase... It's very possible I will end up with scan tweeters or Dynaudio mids if my curiosity is getting too big but the chase is fun too!
Many times I thought of going 3 way. But I like the battle of getting a good 2 way sound great. I should probably invest in scans that can play lower but it is fun to build some passive helpers for the lack of means of my particular head unit for tweeters that sound great with a little help.
Thats why I have been reading on here like crazy, enjoy the out of the box posts made by some members here. But that only shows I have yet another set of priorities. That's all.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

First I would like to apologize to the OP

Second, I'm not even trying to make a point really. I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. I've honestly been lmao this whole time. I respect Buick and know that he's a very knowledgeable member. It just got a little out of hand and long winded. I mean go back and look what my posts consisted of. It was nothing but meaningless rebuttal. Look at the 6th post down on page 3, I actually took his post and picture from another thread in response to his post.:laugh:

Sorry Buick.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

you two are worse than a married couple..


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> I don't get pissed about forum arguments. This has actually been quite entertaining for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I learn something new every day. I haven't been at this for a bunch of years as you claim. However, I just assumed there are certain things everyone knows regardless of experience level like ported is louder all else being equal. 

At least you can finally admit that good equipment can make a difference even though you got the equipment list wrong.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Can't wait to read what the OP is getting. I hope he is wise and reads a lot. Mostly on install. Then reads some more... Try some stuff and finally get what he wants.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> I learn something new every day. I haven't been at this for a bunch of years as you claim. However, I just assumed there are certain things everyone knows regardless of experience level like ported is louder all else being equal.
> 
> At least you can finally admit that good equipment can make a difference even though you got the equipment list wrong.




I admit that good equipment can make you *believe* it makes a difference.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> I admit that good equipment can make you *believe* it makes a difference.


Spoken like someone who has never tried anything but junk but what should I expect from someone that believes ported boxes are to give a different sound but sealed is just as loud lol. I'm guessing when you made that comment you had never run ported either. Like I said, I've run junk before. Now it's your turn to try some decent equipment, gain some experience on the other side of things before talking about something you have never experienced.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Spoken like someone who has never tried anything but junk but what should I expect from someone that believes ported boxes are to give a different sound but sealed is just as loud lol. I'm guessing when you made that comment you had never run ported either. Like I said, I've run junk before. Now it's your turn to try some decent equipment, gain some experience on the other side of things before talking about something you have never experienced.


Still messing with you.

I *do* think that equip makes a difference, jeez.


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## dodgerblue (Jul 14, 2005)

Wesayso said:


> Especially when they are designed to look like small boobs


Lol , 
I,d pay to demo those Perky,s !


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Why would that not work out well for me? Because people can't handle somone questioning their spending habits as people have questioned mine?
> 
> Making fun might have been a bad choice in words but everytime someone buys $50 tweeters I'm going to ask why they spent so little, why are they being cheap in their tweeter selection. How many times have you ever seen someone question anyone about buying a $20 tweeter? Now try to find a single thread where price is not brought up when talking about expensive speakers. You need to remember that just because it's important to you, it's not important to everyone so why do you care what others do with their money.


Problem I've seen with most of your post is that you're trying to push a brand so strongly (because you're using them) that it makes people itchy to try to provoke you: (too lazy to search for your posts but the whole idea is there)
* Dynaudio is the best speaker to buy - nothing can touch it and if you can find a cheaper alternative, you have to prove that it's better 
* Want deep bass in small space? AE IB15 in an IB alignment is best from an engineering point to an acoustic point - again, nothing can touch it unless you want more output then... 
* JL Audio 13W7 is the best - the engineering behind it still makes it the benchmark for which other subs are judged by 
* amps? Can't hear a damn difference so there's no need to go with a crazy expensive brand - JL Audio is small and the best class D right now
^ I see those kind of posts wherever you go and in most thread you post. 

Do you see people talking trash about the price of Rainbow Reference speakers? 
Do you see people talking trash about the price of Focal Utopia Be speakers? 
Do you see people talking trash about the price of Brax Matrix speakers? 
^ I know I usually don't - people are usually amazed at the install and what kind of price owners are dealing with - therefore, there has to be something about the Dynaudio messenger's method (YOU!) 


Kelvin 

PS: I think a few post above yours _*Spyke*_ did post a pic of the Esotar2 set he bought - you called him a liar yet I did not see you apologize...


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> you two are worse than a married couple..


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Problem I've seen with most of your post is that you're trying to push a brand so strongly (because you're using them) that it makes people itchy to try to provoke you: (too lazy to search for your posts but the whole idea is there)
> * Dynaudio is the best speaker to buy - nothing can touch it and if you can find a cheaper alternative, you have to prove that it's better
> * Want deep bass in small space? AE IB15 in an IB alignment is best from an engineering point to an acoustic point - again, nothing can touch it unless you want more output then...
> * JL Audio 13W7 is the best - the engineering behind it still makes it the benchmark for which other subs are judged by
> ...


Yes, he posted Mark's Esotars. 

I've been arguing mostly for the sake of arguing when resting during this Godforsaken move. Spyke gets it. But on a more serious note as I've said it gets old hearing the same old **** about price so I repeat the same old **** a out why it doesn't matter. Go back and you'll find several things I've owned that I have not pushed and some things I do not own that I have pushed. It's not like I go out and buy something and push it because I own it. I usually buy it because I really like it already. I see many of the same comments on other expensive brands and they get ignored mostly by the owner. Me, maybe I haven't evolved to that point yet.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Yes, he posted Mark's Esotars.
> 
> I've been arguing mostly for the sake of arguing when resting during this Godforsaken move. Spyke gets it. *But on a more serious note as I've said it gets old hearing the same old **** about price so I repeat the same old **** a out why it doesn't matter.* Go back and you'll find several things I've owned that I have not pushed and some things I do not own that I have pushed. It's not like I go out and buy something and push it because I own it. I usually buy it because I really like it already. I see many of the same comments on other expensive brands and they get ignored mostly by the owner. Me, maybe I haven't evolved to that point yet.


I can understand that... If you're tired of the same old sh!t, then stop suggesting Dynaudio ; you'll see, no one will be able to talk about price then  

Kelvin


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Yes, he posted Mark's Esotars.
> 
> I've been arguing mostly for the sake of arguing when resting during this Godforsaken move. Spyke gets it. But on a more serious note as I've said it gets old hearing the same old **** about price so I repeat the same old **** a out why it doesn't matter. Go back and you'll find several things I've owned that I have not pushed and some things I do not own that I have pushed. It's not like I go out and buy something and push it because I own it. I usually buy it because I really like it already. I see many of the same comments on other expensive brands and they get ignored mostly by the owner. Me, maybe I haven't evolved to that point yet.



Nuance TW5-073LR 1/2" Mylar Tweeter 279-060

You should consider these Buick. I'll bet with some eq they'll sound just as good as the Esotars. I just ordered 10 sets, I'll bring a pair with me when I make it out your way.  Good luck with the move.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Look at this for example. Zaphs tweeter mishmash; Zaph|Audio



Check the distortion figures above 3khz on Dayton ND16FA-6 and Seas Millennium.

Check the price difference.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

I started this thread, and am scared to even comment in my own thread after seeing what it has turned into. Is there no way we can turn this thread around by everyone agreeing to disagree.Also why can't we make a positive out of this thread, and get a bunch of high end large format tweeters like scan speak,dynaudio esotar 2 ,peeless HDS and vifa XT25TG30-04 etc and use a vehicle with all the tweeters ready to swap in and out using quick connectors ,playing the exact same music at the fairly high volume levels so we can hear how much better or worse each tweeter is,and post the results for everyone to see.That way if dynaudio esotar for example ended up being the very best sounding of the bunch at the high volume listening levels.At least people wouldn't feel bad spending that kind of money, knowing it was vastly superior.I'm not saying it would win,I am mearly using this as an example.Then you could place the other tweeters ,second ,third,forth etc and tell why they placed in that order.Mabe a tweeter like the Vifa XT25TG30 would end up placing just a little under,but be substantially cheaper.Again,I am not saying this would happen.I am just using it as an example like I did with the Dynaudio. Lets put all our resources, and years of personal listening experience together, and give all these forum members what they've been waiting for.Lets keep it to the larger format tweeters to keep the testing simplified.There can be a small format thread test down the road for those that are interested.Then we can test the best large format again the best small format. Gotta be better than arguing back and forth.This can turn into one of the best threads on the forum if we all work together.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Spyke said:


> Nuance TW5-073LR 1/2" Mylar Tweeter 279-060
> 
> You should consider these Buick. I'll bet with some eq they'll sound just as good as the Esotars. I just ordered 10 sets, I'll bring a pair with me when I make it out your way.  Good luck with the move.


Wow! Clean and efficient...... Spray em gold and put em next to 1 horn 2 horn 3 horn...


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

coomaster1 said:


> I started this thread, and am scared to even comment in my own thread after seeing what it has turned into. Is there no way we can turn this thread around by everyone agreeing to disagree.Also why can't we make a positive out of this thread, and get a bunch of high end large format tweeters like scan speak,dynaudio esotar 2 ,peeless HDS and vifa XT25TG30-04 etc and use a vehicle with all the tweeters ready to swap in and out using quick connectors ,playing the exact same music at the fairly high volume levels so we can hear how much better or worse each tweeter is,and post the results for everyone to see.That way if dynaudio esotar for example ended up being the very best sounding of the bunch at the high volume listening levels.At least people wouldn't feel bad spending that kind of money, knowing it was vastly superior.I'm not saying it would win,I am mearly using this as an example.Then you could place the other tweeters ,second ,third,forth etc and tell why they placed in that order.Mabe a tweeter like the Vifa XT25TG30 would end up placing just a little under,but be substantially cheaper.Again,I am not saying this would happen.I am just using it as an example like I did with the Dynaudio. Lets put all our resources, and years of personal listening experience together, and give all these forum members what they've been waiting for.Lets keep it to the larger format tweeters to keep the testing simplified.There can be a small format thread test down the road for those that are interested.Then we can test the best large format again the best small format. Gotta be better than arguing back and forth.This can turn into one of the best threads on the forum if we all work together.


They have in the past (though not in a car): http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/7256-diyma-tweeter-reviews-more.html
I even read it before I got the XT25 that does not get a good review here. It didn't stop me though and I'm glad for it.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

coomaster1 said:


> I started this thread, and am scared to even comment in my own thread after seeing what it has turned into. Is there no way we can turn this thread around by everyone agreeing to disagree.Also why can't we make a positive out of this thread, and get a bunch of high end large format tweeters like scan speak,dynaudio esotar 2 ,peeless HDS and vifa XT25TG30-04 etc and use a vehicle with all the tweeters ready to swap in and out using quick connectors ,playing the exact same music at the fairly high volume levels so we can hear how much better or worse each tweeter is,and post the results for everyone to see.That way if dynaudio esotar for example ended up being the very best sounding of the bunch at the high volume listening levels.At least people wouldn't feel bad spending that kind of money, knowing it was vastly superior.I'm not saying it would win,I am mearly using this as an example.Then you could place the other tweeters ,second ,third,forth etc and tell why they placed in that order.Mabe a tweeter like the Vifa XT25TG30 would end up placing just a little under,but be substantially cheaper.Again,I am not saying this would happen.I am just using it as an example like I did with the Dynaudio. Lets put all our resources, and years of personal listening experience together, and give all these forum members what they've been waiting for.Lets keep it to the larger format tweeters to keep the testing simplified.There can be a small format thread test down the road for those that are interested.Then we can test the best large format again the best small format. Gotta be better than arguing back and forth.This can turn into one of the best threads on the forum if we all work together.


How big of a tweeter can you fit? Suggest you look into AMT based transducers if you cross over 3kHz - you'll have highs for life and the dynamics no dome tweeter can provide  
Best bang for the buck right now is the Airborne RT-20021

Kelvin


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

coomaster1 said:


> I started this thread, and am scared to even comment in my own thread after seeing what it has turned into.


My bad.:blush:


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## mkeets (Oct 6, 2011)

Wesayso said:


> They have in the past (though not in a car): http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/7256-diyma-tweeter-reviews-more.html
> I even read it before I got the XT25 that does not get a good review here. It didn't stop me though and I'm glad for it.


Exactly I posted this exact link on page 1 but the OP probably missed it due to the constant bickering of some other members :laugh: 

If you (OP) want *subjective* opinions on tweeters, while having them rated in order from best to worse by the reviewer, I don't think you're going to find a better thread than that anywhere. They listened to a total of I think 15 tweeters varying in price, material, rings/domes, small/large format and they even gave their listening impressions to justify the way they ranked the tweeters. Hell that thread also has 5 links to other tweeter reviews where the reviewers gave listening impressions and listed the tweeters in order of what they felt were the best.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Those airbourne amt tweeters are only 46.00. They also look small compared to some original amt Ess amt tweeters on the original home speakers. Are you saying that these airbourne amt tweeters can beat out the esotar 2 and the top scanspeak versions or does it half to be the higher end Heil amt tweeters. If they were better in every aspect,Why would anybody be buying the scans and the esotars.Though I did hear good things about those old Heil amt monitor home speakers.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

you know, through it all i came to formulate some constructive advice for the OP. after researching the bat crap out of tweeters from zaph audio to DIYMA and all points in between- and I bought all the consensus best of the best (except for dyn) and I still ended up with a box full 'o tweeters- leading me to conclude just how highly subjective this whole deal really is. 
so make up a budget and buy a box of tweeters and run 'em until you find a winner. and BTW, for some reason I flat out HATED some of the best tweeters- I couldn't stand to have them in my car anymore- they all seemed to have these contributing coloration, excessive detail or other irritating quality. 
if you are suspecting that you are tweeter sensitive (in the least) by all means go with a soft material dome before you try anything else.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

coomaster1 said:


> Those airbourne amt tweeters are only 46.00. They also look small compared to some original amt Ess amt tweeters on the original home speakers. Are you saying that these airbourne amt tweeters can beat out the esotar 2 and the top scanspeak versions or does it half to be the higher end Heil amt tweeters. If they were better in every aspect,Why would anybody be buying the scans and the esotars.Though I did hear good things about those old Heil amt monitor home speakers.


Nope, it doesn't have to be big coz in a car, you're so close to your drivers... 

From what I've seen, the RT-20221 is very sensitive - although the literature claims a sensitivity of 88 dB, the AMT has a sensitivity more in the 93–95dB range. 
Impedance curve is flatter than any dome tweeter in existence - even near FS and @ the very end of the spectrum (40kHz). Inductance in my opinion should be very close to 0  
Dispersion is that of a 1" dome yet it has more than 3 times the Sd of a 1" dome tweeter @ 25cm2 VS ^7-8cm2<-- reason why I said that it will provide better dynamics than most dome (if not all) dome tweeter 

^ those are for the RT-20221 and I actually got my numbers wrong, the RT-20221 is better crossed around 4kHz with a steep slope. Want to use a 3kHz Xover point? Use the RT-4001 (Sd = 50cm2) or the RT-5002 (Sd = 95cm2) 

Kelvin


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

avanti1960 said:


> you know, through it all i came to formulate some constructive advice for the OP. after researching the bat crap out of tweeters from zaph audio to DIYMA and all points in between- and I bought all the consensus best of the best (except for dyn) and I still ended up with a box full 'o tweeters- leading me to conclude just how highly subjective this whole deal really is.
> so make up a budget and buy a box of tweeters and run 'em until you find a winner. and BTW, for some reason I flat out HATED some of the best tweeters- I couldn't stand to have them in my car anymore- they all seemed to have these contributing coloration, excessive detail or other irritating quality.
> if you are suspecting that you are tweeter sensitive (in the least) by all means go with a soft material dome before you try anything else.


You bought all of "the best tweeters" in zaphs test?? The better a driver is, the less coloration it would have. Irregular FR and high amounts of non linear distortion is the things that cause coloration. 'The best drivers' in that test excels in those areas, so that don't make any sense actually. It's much more reasonable to believe that it simply was a tuning issue. Many times when a speaker measures good, it sounds good. Once again, dispersion can be a major factor to consider, depending on how it's installed.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Hanatsu said:


> You bought all of "the best tweeters" in zaphs test?? The better a driver is, the less coloration it would have. Irregular FR and high amounts of non linear distortion is the things that cause coloration. 'The best drivers' in that test excels in those areas, so that don't make any sense actually. It's much more reasonable to believe that it simply was a tuning issue. Many times when a speaker measures good, it sounds good. Once again, dispersion can be a major factor to consider, depending on how it's installed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


i agree that it doesn'tmake sense but we should all try and realize that 2-dimensional plots and specifications in black and white do not tell the complete picture with respect to the vivid full color spectrum of sound reproduction as perceived by one's ears. 

FYI I don't like having to constantly remove door panels and swap tweeters. Therefore I tried to "tune" each tweeter as best as I could to make it workable. 
Some imparted more color than others but each one had its own distinct sound. Here are some examples-

Vifa NE19VTA- liked it at first but- eventually picked up on a ringing cold artifical quality, nasal and metallic. 
Vifa XT25- loved it at first- but the off axis performance (left speaker) made it often invisible in the mix and i eventually picked up some strain and harshness when reproducing lower high frequencies at higher volume. 
Scanspeak d2004. Loved this driver! Just a little too smooth, especially off axis. Did not play lower as advertised. 
Focal V30 tweeter. sounded great at first but grew tiresome and way too metallic- even way way off axis. this one might sound OK if you mounted them under the seats and carpeting!

Again, lots of subjectivity here. Many people love and live with these tweeters. Proceed with care, these are arguably the most important driver in your car!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Best home speakers never chosen by majority listeners, people choice always impervious speakers based on how "tasty" they sound or price- never on measured parameters. for many $1000 pair sounds better then $10000 pair but honestly i never hear a cheaper pair sounds better at least when price difference is that big 1000 vs 1500 - very possible.
esotars 2 IMHO is greatly over estimated, they do sounds great. but comparable sound can be done 10 times cheaper. we all know reasons people spent unnecessary amounts on what they believe is the best.
some scans and wifas can be tuned to be close to perfect sound, after all that what installed in some ungodly expensive HT speakers. passive crossovers can do wonders. 
best speakers I`ve heard was vandersteens 5A. not most expensive but best sounding. . but 3A model sound almost as good for many times less money, most people won`t tell the difference. BTW vandees use modified aluminum dome wifas, I never heard better highs then 5a model reproduced. 3A pair cost 5000 5A cost 19000

IMHO best tweeter money can buy today is this


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

avanti1960 said:


> i agree that it doesn'tmake sense but we should all try and realize that 2-dimensional plots and specifications in black and white do not tell the complete picture with respect to the vivid full color spectrum of sound reproduction as perceived by one's ears.
> 
> FYI I don't like having to constantly remove door panels and swap tweeters. Therefore I tried to "tune" each tweeter as best as I could to make it workable.
> Some imparted more color than others but each one had its own distinct sound


FR (with directional graphs)-HD-IMD do describe the performance of a speaker. What it does not describe is how we interpret the sound. Since everyone seem to have different opinions about drivers based on certain preferences, I rather take my chances with objective measurements, which can tell you a great deal if enough data is provided. We simply need to understand how the data translates into the speakers character to know what to look for. Might not be easiest of tasks but it's possible.Frequency response can be modified with EQ, but the unique distortion profile in non-linear domain cannot be fixed with DSPs without affecting FR (lower amplitude).

Tuning each tweeter as you did seperately makes a comparasion practically impossible. The thing that contributes most to irregularities in FR is the car's interior itself. Therefore is a major source of coloration is not the speaker itself, but the environment and the install. The sound will be altered by speaker location, car type, tuning and the speaker! That's an awful amount of variables to account for.

So, what am I getting at? Testing a speaker inside the car is meaningless for everyone else but you since the sound will be specific, based on your car's interior, placement, tuning and on top of that, your preferences. 

Fyi, XT25 is built for on-axis listening. Off-axis installs with this driver shouldn't even be attempted. FR drops above 5kHz when listening angle goes beyond 30deg or so. It's all in the spec sheet.

A speaker will only be as good as the environment it's installed in 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> FR (with directional graphs)-HD-IMD do describe the performance of a speaker. What it does not describe is how we interpret the sound. Since everyone seem to have different opinions about drivers based on certain preferences, I rather take my chances with objective measurements, which can tell you a great deal if enough data is provided. We simply need to understand how the data translates into the speakers character to know what to look for. Might not be easiest of tasks but it's possible.Frequency response can be modified with EQ, but the unique distortion profile in non-linear domain cannot be fixed with DSPs without affecting FR (lower amplitude).
> 
> Tuning each tweeter as you did seperately makes a comparasion practically impossible. The thing that contributes most to irregularities in FR is the car's interior itself. Therefore is a major source of coloration is not the speaker itself, but the environment and the install. The sound will be altered by speaker location, car type, tuning and the speaker! That's an awful amount of variables to account for.
> 
> ...


While I 100% agree with your last statement, I completely disagree about xt25 off axis one. subjectively xt25 can sound terrific off- axis in highly reflective car environment.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Victor_inox said:


> IMHO best tweeter money can buy today is this


I really like the look of it but I find the freq response and dispersion to be better on the Be D3004. 
Really like the waveguide thing going on the D2908 - Impedance curve looks better on the D2908 too... 

Kelvin


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Victor_inox said:


> While I 100% agree with your last statement, I completely disagree about xt25 off axis one. subjectively xt25 can sound terrific off- axis in highly reflective car environment.


Never had any success with it offaxis. Perhaps I didn't try enough 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Perhaps.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

avanti1960 said:


> you know, through it all i came to formulate some constructive advice for the OP. after researching the bat crap out of tweeters from zaph audio to DIYMA and all points in between- and I bought all the consensus best of the best (except for dyn) and I still ended up with a box full 'o tweeters- leading me to conclude just how highly subjective this whole deal really is.
> so make up a budget and buy a box of tweeters and run 'em until you find a winner. and BTW, for some reason I flat out HATED some of the best tweeters- I couldn't stand to have them in my car anymore- they all seemed to have these contributing coloration, excessive detail or other irritating quality.
> if you are suspecting that you are tweeter sensitive (in the least) by all means go with a soft material dome before you try anything else.


Amazing what a car will do to an otherwise great set of tweets. Not sure I've seen any good reviews in in-car testing of various tweeters side by side. Most of the reviews I've seen are in a controlled home environment and trying to take those results and expect the same thing in a car, yep box of tweets. Been there done that till I spent about 20 hrs of listening and positioning with a so called good pair of tweets I thought initially sounded like crap. Even not so good tweeters can sound phenomenal with the right x/overs, processing, and install. I think that's been said before.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

I have these little guys with Morel Elate 6's in the front stage, and how do they preform, Excellent! 

I wanted to go with Morel MT23's but I also didn't want to pay the sticker price on them. 

Vifa OT19NC00-04 3/4" Fabric Dome Tweeter 4 Ohm 264-1122

These little guys did the job very well, and i'm very impressed with them as well.
As other person has stated, unless you run your music at high bit rate, or original cd's than you may hear the sound difference, but if its mp3 or ipod music than I don't know if you will really hear the big difference that you are looking for.

I though my little tweeters were bad, or didn't sound right to me, until I went and got my car tuned by one of DIY member. Wow what a difference... 

No need for replacement, and if one of them burns out! I wont cry about it, its only 20$ some box


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> Never had any success with it offaxis. Perhaps I didn't try enough
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


I have always found that off axis requires higher xo point and or steeper slope.

$.02


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

RNBRAD said:


> Amazing what a car will do to an otherwise great set of tweets. Not sure I've seen any good reviews in in-car testing of various tweeters side by side. Most of the reviews I've seen are in a controlled home environment and trying to take those results and expect the same thing in a car, yep box of tweets. Been there done that till I spent about 20 hrs of listening and positioning with a so called good pair of tweets I thought initially sounded like crap. Even not so good tweeters can sound phenomenal with the right x/overs, processing, and install. I think that's been said before.


I did a test inside the car. Dunno if it's "good" but I tried making it as objective as possible for a in-car review. Same locations, same tuning applied. Would probably performed the test slightly different now in hindsight. I really hate using these audiophile terms when describing something subjective but anyway... It's not a very useful test other than for myself, but the measurement data might be interesting, idk.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/137194-tweeter-comparison-vifa-xt25-dx25-peerless-hds-dls-nob1.html


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Spyke said:


> I have always found that off axis requires higher xo point and or steeper slope.
> 
> $.02


I prefer my tweeters on-axis


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

cajunner said:


> quip:
> 
> my first good tweeters came from a set of West Germany produced, Alphasonik/Visonik plate speakers back in about '85.
> 
> ...


I do love finding those gems that just sound great to you. I have a pair of lightning audio 6.5" coax's that i've had for about 10 years. I won't use them in any serious installs but they've been in 2 personal and 4 company vehicles so far. I think it's the tweeters I like the most, kinda like your Alphasoniks.

Also in the "cheap and absolutely love" category: 

Jamo 4" woofer($6 each) I can't get these to sound bad to me.
1" Peerless aluminum domes($5 each) 
No name 2" aluminum neo driver($4 each) 

I love experimenting most of all. So yeah, just start buying and playing.

Edit: And before someone jumps down my throat, I'm not suggesting buying a bunch of $5 tweeters.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> I prefer my tweeters on-axis


You should install the xt's in some headphones then.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Best home speakers never chosen by majority listeners, people choice always impervious speakers based on how "tasty" they sound or price- never on measured parameters. for many $1000 pair sounds better then $10000 pair but honestly i never hear a cheaper pair sounds better at least when price difference is that big 1000 vs 1500 - very possible.
> esotars 2 IMHO is greatly over estimated, they do sounds great. but comparable sound can be done 10 times cheaper. we all know reasons people spent unnecessary amounts on what they believe is the best.
> some scans and wifas can be tuned to be close to perfect sound, after all that what installed in some ungodly expensive HT speakers. passive crossovers can do wonders.
> best speakers I`ve heard was vandersteens 5A. not most expensive but best sounding. . but 3A model sound almost as good for many times less money, most people won`t tell the difference. BTW vandees use modified aluminum dome wifas, I never heard better highs then 5a model reproduced. 3A pair cost 5000 5A cost 19000
> ...


I just have one question, how drunk were you when you wrote this trainwreck?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> I just have one question, how drunk were you when you wrote this trainwreck?


 You right, I hoped you''ll read this. Hanford Ca is where Richard Vandersteen factory is located, I highly recommend to anyone remotely interested in sound reproduction to visit that facility. finest american made speakers to found there


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> I did a test inside the car. Dunno if it's "good" but I tried making it as objective as possible for a in-car review. Same locations, same tuning applied. Would probably performed the test slightly different now in hindsight. I really hate using these audiophile terms when describing something subjective but anyway... It's not a very useful test other than for myself, but the measurement data might be interesting, idk.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/137194-tweeter-comparison-vifa-xt25-dx25-peerless-hds-dls-nob1.html


That's some good stuff, and finding what works or sounds best for you is what is important. When people understand human hearing and how it changes, they will be better equiped on what it takes to find some good tweets and it's not always what your buddy or Jo Blo says it is. I've sat in many top SQ cars across from others telling me how good it sounds when I'm like what's so special, I don't get it? I'm sure many have experienced the same thing. lol 

Hearing is much like taste, very subjective and it's what the listener says it is cause who can state otherwise. I hate pea salad, I don't care how good my mom says it is "this time". It can be the best pea salad in the world, but I hate it!!  But taste changes I may like it in a few years, this is much like our hearing. What sounds good today may not in a few years or even tomorrow. Also the reason hearing is so subjective is because our hearing acuity changes based on many factors, such as diet, blood pressure, body temperature, serotonin levels, exposed noise levels, temperature, drugs, ear wax, shape of ear etc.. What sounds good at first may change with listening time, many of us have experienced that. Certain frequencies I am more keen to than you are, just like certain tastes. This is exactly why no one speaker in a certain variable will be the "best" performer for everyone. It's an impossible task. Many hi end speaker manufacturers have scientific research teams consisting of audioligist that understand these variables. They produce many speakers for many tastes. Ever thought-how in the world did such a great company make a crappy sounding speaker? I bet it sounds good to someone.  Anyway just my thoughts wiw.


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