# Dynaxorb squares....any experience?



## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

I have a set of 4 i plan on installing against the outer door skin behind my midbass speakers. I like the concept behind them but i want to see if they are more snake oil than actual decent products. Anyone with real world experience will be greatly appreciated for their knowledge on the subject.

Chris


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

any experience????????????


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## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

im kinda curious about these too... hopeing someone will chime in


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Same concept as Cascade Deflex and the similar pads sold by Second Skin. They add mass to a panel. They may convert some sound to heat internally through deformation and rebound. Eliminate those effects of insufficient damping and it is very hard to see how they would work as well as foam behind the speaker.

The widely promoted idea that the angled facets do anything to redirect back waves off at 90 degrees where they won't do any harm seems like marketing hype. It makes for nice illustrations but ignores the laws of physics. Sound isn't light and the angled faces aren't mirrors 

All of this said, if you start with an untreated door and glue these things behind the speakers, you will very likely hear the difference because of the added mass. Gluing a rock in the same place should have a similar result, minus whatever viscoelastic damping happens inside the body of the pad.


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

i am under the impression those facets are not for redirection or any mirroring effect (wouldnt redirecting the sound any direction be just as sonically harmful?) but simply to give the square more surface area. and when that surface area happens to be super soft and rather gooey material, the sound is absorbed more efficiently than, say, a flat gooey surface.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

freeride1685 said:


> i am under the impression those facets are not for redirection or any mirroring effect (wouldnt redirecting the sound any direction be just as sonically harmful?) but simply to give the square more surface area. and when that surface area happens to be super soft and rather gooey material, the sound is absorbed more efficiently than, say, a flat gooey surface.


That could be, but some of the marketing copy I've read on these is pretty specific about sending the broken up waves out of the way. I'm not sure how greater surface area could come into play. The convoluted surface would want to be more than 1/4" from peak to trough to have much effect in any way I can see. The more I think about it, the less I can see any benefit other than adding mass, but someone else may have a clearer understanding.


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## ~thematt~ (Sep 14, 2007)

The purpose of these isnt to add mass to the panel. Thats for Sound Deadening. Wouldnt work here either because these are very light. Nor is it to convert sound to heat. That too is for Sound Deadening. 

The intention is exactly as mentioned, to diffuse the reflected waves and 'scatter' them. This is very effective for the appropriate wavelengths (any with a 1/4 length smaller then the valley to peak distance) but DO NOT work for midbass. The Wavelengths are far to long. They do however, work very effectively for cone midranges in sealed enclosures.

This is a well-known technique employed in all Anechoic chambers across the globe. Scattering of reflections prevents coherent echo's, and therefore begins to eliminate any wave that isnt the direct source. Great for cancelling backwaves, not so great for an open baffle setup


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## Smoked Tails (Apr 10, 2006)

You saved your first post for that. Well done, sir.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

~thematt~ said:


> The purpose of these isnt to add mass to the panel. Thats for Sound Deadening. Wouldnt work here either because these are very light. Nor is it to convert sound to heat. That too is for Sound Deadening.
> 
> The intention is exactly as mentioned, to diffuse the reflected waves and 'scatter' them. This is very effective for the appropriate wavelengths (any with a 1/4 length smaller then the valley to peak distance) but DO NOT work for midbass. The Wavelengths are far to long. They do however, work very effectively for cone midranges in sealed enclosures.
> 
> This is a well-known technique employed in all Anechoic chambers across the globe. Scattering of reflections prevents coherent echo's, and therefore begins to eliminate any wave that isnt the direct source. Great for cancelling backwaves, not so great for an open baffle setup


I wasn't suggesting they were replacements for sound deadening, I was being generous by suggesting that they may serve additional, more useful functions that overlap with those of proper sound deadening. If they don't, there's no point in using them in any but fully sound deadened and sealed doors, and even then will likely provide a very small improvement effecting the only highest frequencies. Might be great in an Anechoic chamber, but unlikely to make an audible difference in a moving car - particularly since the targeted frequencies are the least problematic in this application.


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## ~thematt~ (Sep 14, 2007)

Didnt mean to come across as brash 'Rudeboy', my apologies. I agree with your assessment on them having almost no effect in the car if the targeted frequencies are too low!! They do however, make a noticeable difference to the midrange. 

It is unfortunate though, thats not where these things are targeted. "Gives you more bass" is totally a marketing ploy!!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

If the pad scatters the back wave that would normally bounce back and cause cone interference and cancellation, would it not then sound like the driver has more bass? 

And isn't Dyna_*xorb*_ kind of misleading anyway? It almost implies that the sound is absorbed, when it's really not. It's my understanding (at least with Deflex Power Pads) that the wave is basically scattered but not absorbed. In order for it to be absorbed, something tells me it would have to be transformed into heat or be forced to fight its way through a labyrinth of sorts (ie the cells of foam or other absorptive material).


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## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

So then these pads are only truly useful in "diffusing" certain target frquencies in a given range?

As mentioned earlier, wouldn't this "better bass" be nullified by the diffraction of the soundwaves and the vehicles' own natural harmonics? (this is assuming that it is used alone and not along with another product that would provide actual harmonic damping?)


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

well here's the best i can suggest....i will try to do the install such that i will do a writeup when i install these. first test a speaker without and then with...i cannot guarantee it, though, as there is so much to be done i might just not have time.

if anything, my doors will be a good test chamber. they will be as dead as i can possibly muster so that is a plus.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I've used 4 of them behind each of my MW160s in my doors as well as lining the walls in a sub enclosure with them and in both cases they made and audible difference. With the MW160s (playing [email protected]@6dB) the 160 had a lot less midrange reflecting back through the cone off the door than with deadening alone. Midbass seemed cleaner as well but that could have been a byproduct of the lack of midrange slapback. For the sub it sounded like there was less ringing. They seem to work very well and I'll continue to use them in future installs.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

~thematt~ said:


> Didnt mean to come across as brash 'Rudeboy', my apologies. I agree with your assessment on them having almost no effect in the car if the targeted frequencies are too low!! They do however, make a noticeable difference to the midrange.
> 
> It is unfortunate though, thats not where these things are targeted. "Gives you more bass" is totally a marketing ploy!!


No, no, brash is good. We like da facts.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

The Deflex pads I've used allowed the system to be "turned up" louder and still sound good.

dieasel ford pick-up,300/4 JL Audio, four speakers...two in rear corners of an extended cab.
excerpt:
Deflex Power Pads are a revolutionary new waterproof damping pad, specifically designed to prevent distortion caused by the back wave of a speaker interfering with the front wave. Deflex panels are made of an advanced polymer that acts as a shock absorber to all harmful enclosure standing waves. The unique conical surface serves to deflect speaker back waves instead of converting it into heat like Dacron or fiberfill. The result is a high output with greatly minimized cone distortion and breakup. The audible benefits is greater control and increased detail. The inside of vehicle doors is the perfect application since Dacron or fiberfill cannot be used due to water exposure. Kit comes with two 7" disks.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Hic said:


> The Deflex pads I've used allowed the system to be "turned up" louder and still sound good.


Were there other door treatments or were the Deflex pads all there was?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Deflex was all!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Hic said:


> Deflex was all!


If the improvement was consistent across the frequency range for the speakers the pads were behind and if ~thematt~ is correct (and I believe he is) then there has to be something else going on, like the effects we typically look to sound deadener for.

OT, who is the woman in your sig. She makes it very difficult for me to concentrate


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

Liv Tyler FTW


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## Abmolech (Nov 2, 2006)

~thematt~ Is correct.

If this sort of marketing was true, do you think that your sub box would have standing waves (IE it has larger dimensions so it must to right?) 

How about standing waves for enclosure your mid bass?

This stuff is a joke and should be taken to task.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

freeride1685 said:


> Liv Tyler FTW


I'll be damned. She's maturing nicely.


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## delerium168 (May 13, 2007)

she's hot


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## delerium168 (May 13, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> If the improvement was consistent across the frequency range for the speakers the pads were behind and if ~thematt~ is correct (and I believe he is) then there has to be something else going on, like the effects we typically look to sound deadener for.
> 
> OT, who is the woman in your sig. She makes it very difficult for me to concentrate


I know..i keep staring at her too


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

Glad I just put 2 deflex pads in my doors behind my 8s.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Straight from the horse's mouth (Doug Moir, Engineer and owner of CAE) on Deflex Power Pads:



> ...The pattern is important for mid to upper frequencies. The low frequency benefit comes from the compliance ratio of the material. When a low frequency sound wave hits the Deflex panel the material will act as a compliant wall that absorbs the impact. You could probably get a similar effect from foam but automotive door systems can get too wet and the last thing you want is water retention in your car door. Mold and mildew can start to form on the foam, where the Deflex is impervious to moisture!


Call it snake oil or a complete joke all you want, but do it AFTER you've used the product. Not assuming those who have commented as such thus far have not, but I think all statements need to be viewed openly and objectively.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Call it snake oil or a complete joke all you want, but do it AFTER you've used the product.


John, 

Is there any other product category in the world for which you would suggest that approach? There really wouldn't be much point in forums like this if the only way to determine how well a product meets its advertised claims was for everyone to try it for themselves. It's great for product sales, but ignoring the science involved and the likely placebo effect when money and effort are invested isn't the best way to get to the bottom of things.

Doug is a nice guy, but who could have more reason to want these things to work as advertised? How about some real test results? It would be way easier than real world testing of vibration dampers. Deaden a door then select a measurement methodology and do a series with and without the pads. Should be easy enough to see what effect they have, if any.

I'd like to somehow say this gently, but I have already tried to communicate this to you via PM and now I guess I should just say it straight out. I really miss the days when you could be counted on to make a contribution that wasn't transparently driven by your desire to sell products. Are you a rep for Cascade now too? If so, I think your signature should say so. Either way, you should make it clear that you are selling Cascade products. I don't think there's anything wrong with that - they make some great stuff, but your post here might be taken in a different light if other members knew what your relationship with the company is. A link to their Web site isn't enough and since the Vertex company name doesn't link to anything, it is not at all obvious where your loyalties and priorities are. There is no way to walk that line without being completely transparent. You can't be B-Squad giving objective advice when it isn't absolutely clear to everyone that you might benefit from the advice you are giving.


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

i hope B-Squad has Deflex pads on his ears to reflect the harshness and dynamat on his temples to absorb some of the weight of those comments  ....but i kid. i won't attempt to get in the middle of that.

The best i can say, being that this has generated a more heated debate than i anticipated, is that on one of my doors i will do some subjective and objective tests with and without the pad in place. This will be kind of far off, however, but once all the equipment is in place, tuned to my likings, i will try my best to show some MLS data of the door before and after placement of my dynaxorb square, as well as a response based on my listening experience.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

freeride1685 said:


> The best i can say, being that this has generated a more heated debate than i anticipated, is that on one of my doors i will do some subjective and objective tests with and without the pad in place. This will be kind of far off, however, but once all the equipment is in place, tuned to my likings, i will try my best to show some MLS data of the door before and after placement of my dynaxorb square, as well as a response based on my listening experience.


Good stuff. No free ride after all


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

heck, it is the least i can do after such a comprehensive roundup of the sound products that you went through. i read your article from start to finish and decided to go with Second Skin because it proved to me that they were in it for the right reasons. Don't get me wrong, Dynamat Extreme has been nothing but good to me, but for the price I would rather squeak out that last bit of performance.

It also led me to my latest creation, a new generation of sound deadener based on shredded 5-cheese blend with Tostitos as the substrate....which is great because then when i heat test it in the oven i can just scrape up the drips and eat them, and my gf won't mind as much either


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

freeride1685 said:


> It also led me to my latest creation, a new generation of sound deadener based on shredded 5-cheese blend with Tostitos as the substrate....which is great because then when i heat test it in the oven i can just scrape up the drips and eat them, and my gf won't mind as much either


Excellent. I'm trying to finish up the new version and I'm always interested in seeing new products. Send me a sample and I'll be sure to include it - has to smell better than baked asphalt or butyl. Might have to add a new test to see how well each attracts flies.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Is there any other product category in the world for which you would suggest that approach? There really wouldn't be much point in forums like this if the only way to determine how well a product meets its advertised claims was for everyone to try it for themselves. It's great for product sales, but ignoring the science involved and the likely placebo effect when money and effort are invested isn't the best way to get to the bottom of things.


You know what dude, I agree with you.....but PIP!!!!! The thread is about _exprience_. I have NONE! Zero! With any of these types of products. Are they snake oil? No, they work. My post was an attempt help those in the position to buy Deflex pads understand how they work. That's it! Should I cut my head off and send it to in a box, Don!?!??!   

Re-read the post directly above mine in this thread to understand my motives. 




> Doug is a nice guy, but who could have more reason to want these things to work as advertised? How about some real test results? It would be way easier than real world testing of vibration dampers. Deaden a door then select a measurement methodology and do a series with and without the pads. Should be easy enough to see what effect they have, if any.


Real world testing? Lets be honest, you bake mat at temps a car door will never see!
You take mat samples and hang weights from them. When does a VE dampener encounter forces similar to that? 

If you want test results, just PM me and I'll see what I can do. It's all good. No need to go overboard with the internet sound deadening policing here bud. 



> I'd like to somehow say this gently, but I have already tried to communicate this to you via PM and now I guess I should just say it straight out. I really miss the days when you could be counted on to make a contribution that wasn't transparently driven by your desire to sell products.


That's YOUR interpretation of my post, now isn't it. You know what, in sound deadening more then anything, EVERYONE'S and expert. Deflex pad?? Shiiiiit, just glue an old flip flop sandal to your door. Does the same thing. It's foam, ya know!  



> Are you a rep for Cascade now too?


Too? In addition to what else?

Yes, I am a CAE dealer. 

I also went out of my way to contact the person that essentially engineered the products we discuss here on a daily basis. You on direct dial? Call him up!



> If so, I think your signature should say so. Either way, you should make it clear that you are selling Cascade products. I don't think there's anything wrong with that - they make some great stuff, but your post here might be taken in a different light if other members knew what your relationship with the company is. A link to their Web site isn't enough and since the Vertex company name doesn't link to anything, it is not at all obvious where your loyalties and priorities are. There is no way to walk that line without being completely transparent. You can't be B-Squad giving objective advice when it isn't absolutely clear to everyone that you might benefit from the advice you are giving.


Signature limit 100 characters.  But I agree, if I could I would. 

Tell me Don, who pays for the SDS?? I go to your site and see adds! Who's really benefiting from your sig??


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

freeride1685 said:


> i hope B-Squad has Deflex pads on his ears to reflect the harshness and dynamat on his temples to absorb some of the weight of those comments  ....but i kid. i won't attempt to get in the middle of that.


I have nothing against the guy, that's just how he is.  Keeps you on your toes, I guess.

I'm looking forward to that review both as an amateur sound deadening idiot trying to find the best stuff for my dollar and as a greedy, professional thread dumper with slick ulterior motives who's got a bottom line to keep and a family of mini shyster's to support.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> You know what dude, I agree with you.....but PIP!!!!! The thread is about _exprience_. I have NONE! Zero! With any of these types of products. Are they snake oil? No, they work. My post was an attempt help those in the position to buy Deflex pads understand how they work. That's it! Should I cut my head off and send it to in a box, Don!?!??!
> 
> Re-read the post directly above mine in this thread to understand my motives.


Don't know what PIP means. You say you have no experience AND you say they work. WTF. Head in a box seems a little over the top.



B-Squad said:


> Real world testing? Lets be honest, you bake mat at temps a car door will never see!
> 
> You hang samples of mat from weights. When does a VE dampener encounter force similar to that?
> 
> If you want test results, just PM me and I'll see what I can do. It's all good. No need to go overboard with the internet sound deadening policing here bud.


I clearly said it would be easier to test Deflex pads yes/no than to compare vibration dampers. That said, If you want to go down that road, I can get you plenty of evidence for the basis for the tests I did. Turns out to be much more useful than I thought. Baking turns out to be a good way to see accelerated aging under less extreme conditions. Hanging weights from the materials and timing how long it takes them to fall off is exactly how the manufacturers of these products test adhesive strength. Surprised you don't know that, being in the business and all. Oh, I hang weights from the mat, the reverse WOULD be silly.

This really doesn't have anything to do with Internet sound deadener policing. It has to do with you using this forum to sell products without being clear about what you are doing. It certainly isn't up to me to police that activity, but you are a vendor now, not a regular member. You came into this thread with a quote from Doug and presented it as if you had indeed gone to the trouble to contact the guy and get his take, instead of calling up the guy you work for to figure out how to deal with a thread that wasn't moving in a way that was helpful to your shared business.



B-Squad said:


> That's YOUR interpretation of my post, now isn't it. You know what, in sound deadening more then anything, EVERYONE'S and expert. Deflex pad?? Shiiiiit, just glue an old flip flop sandal to your door. Does the same thing. It's foam, ya know!


Yeah, OK. flip flop?



B-Squad said:


> Too? In addition to what else?


Seriously now. Are you claiming memory loss as a defense?



B-Squad said:


> Yes, I am a CAE dealer.


That wasn't too hard now was it? It is a very important piece of information.



B-Squad said:


> I also went out of my way to contact the person that essentially engineered the products we discuss here on a daily basis. You on direct dial? Call him up!


You just said you were a dealer. How in the world did you ever track him down?  



B-Squad said:


> Signature limit 100 characters.  But I agree, if I could I would.


Priorities



B-Squad said:


> Tell me Don, who pays for the SDS?? I go to your site and see adds! Who's really benefiting from your sig??


Google ads. I have no control over which ones appear. It pays for hosting and if I'm lucky, a tank of gas each month. What I say there has absolutely no bearing on which ads appear or how much I get paid. Pretty obvious difference.

Be a smart ass if you want. When I first contacted you about this, I figured you would say something like: Oh, I hadn't thought of it like that, I'll make sure I clear it up. But you didn't. Now I've stepped it up a notch and you apparently think that what you are doing is OK. Maybe everyone else does too, but I like to know when I'm listening to a salesman with a stake in the outcome of a discussion. Do what you want.

By the way. Cascade VB-Max is going to get a good review in the new version of SDS. Taking cheap shots at SDS will actually hurt you if you end up discrediting it. That'd be kind of funny. Just so that we are clear, SDS is a real loser for me. It doesn't even come close to being worth doing financially. If enough people feel I've been wasting my time, I'll be more than glad to bury it. So far the only ones suggesting I do that are the ones it has stopped from scamming people.


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

well i like harsh criticism because it helps keep me in line, or even better, helps to reinforce the motivation behind why i do what i do. i am leaning towards believing that these products are more hype than anything, but then again, i am also the guy who ripped apart my pre-configured SPG555 and added a foam gasket ring and layer of flexible roofing sealant to help give the sound a crisp, yet forgiving quality to it  

and who is to say that the placebo effect is not equally, if not more enjoyable than hard data? i love believing something works, and in the OCD world that i live in, i can never be satisfied until i draw the line within myself and say enough is enough, i just busted my butt to get the last drop of goodness out of this and i think it is ok for now. in my case, that will probably involve sticking those dynaxorb pads in the doors, whether the objective data is very promising or not :blush:


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

i am leaning in agreement of rudeboy, but i do feel like this is all based on an ongoing argument.

if it was simply about the deflex pads themselves then i am hard pressed to believe that B-Squad would go out of his way so elaborately to sell $40 worth of stuff. but then again, i was never a very good salesman anyway


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

freeride1685 said:


> i am leaning in agreement of rudeboy, but i do feel like this is all based on an ongoing argument.
> 
> if it was simply about the deflex pads themselves then i am hard pressed to believe that B-Squad would go out of his way so elaborately to sell $40 worth of stuff. but then again, i was never a very good salesman anyway


There really isn't an ongoing argument. I'm also not saying that he is doing this to make $40 or that he is even doing anything wrong intentionally. I think he is trying to operate below the radar and I think that is a mistake on several levels. 

I'm not trying to harm his business in any way. I believe he would be better served by complete transparency and the forum would benefit as well. When Anthony from Second Skin (and new owner of this forum) or Rick from RAAMAudio post here, we all know exactly who they are and what ulterior motives they might have. In both cases, they have a lot of experience with these products and make useful contributions. B-Squad may fall into the same category, but until he makes his situation obvious to all, we won't know. If everybody on this board were fronting a business, it would be a very different kind of resource.

I'm just asking that he make it clear that he is operating a business through the forum. Not sure why it is such a bid deal. Oh, and I thought this was completely over the top, if he was a Cascade Dealer:


B-Squad said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth (Doug Moir, Engineer and owner of CAE) on Deflex Power Pads:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

When Ant takes over, I'm sure he'll decide what to do.

I asked legit questions about the SDS. Keep in mind we're all reading what I'm writing on a computer screen. This is hardly a constructive communication process. No insult or cheap shot intended.

I couldn't even possibly count the number of times I've referred others to the SDS and/or told people to read your comments on how to do this the right way. Hundreds???

I know a lot of dudes on this site. I've done business with a lot of them. I don't think you're going to find too many whom I've pissed off at me for bad business dealings or who feel I'm in error for the things I say. Thought that gave me SOME credit, but apparently not. To them I'm just one of them, to YOU I'm a dealer. 

I apologize if my intentions are misconstrued or people are confused as to what I'm trying to do. I thought my FS threads made it pretty clear without me going into a new personal introduction. I guess I still think like a regular member here, when actually now I'm not anymore. Guess I need a new user name? Could just leave as well. Again, the Admin is in charge of that.

It's actually kind of funny. I've spent hours and hours of research time to find the best stuff for the least amount of money, as I've said before. I was very close to just coming to DIYMA (I have like a lot of posts here) and doing a group buy on some sweet barrier product that works fantastic. I thought about it and how much of a mess that could turn into and decided just to box it and sell it instead. 

And in the ongoing process have found other cool stuff that can really help guys out here that I've personally never seen used before. I'll be driving over to the warehouse to get it and driving back. You buy a tank of gas, I buy a tank of gas. Are we even?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

freeride1685 said:


> i am hard pressed to believe that B-Squad would go out of his way so elaborately to sell $40 worth of stuff. but then again, i was never a very good salesman anyway


Not one dollar has come my way from any comments I've made in any thread besides my own FS threads. I've NEVER tried to directly sell CAE products to anyone. You will NEVER hear me say 'Hey, wanna buy some Deflex pads?!?!" I might be kind of a dumbass business man, but I'm not a turd.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I don't expect that you would have unhappy customers. I really feel like I am banging my head against a wall here. The quality of your products or the ethics of your business practices have nothing to do with this. You sell products that we sometimes discuss here. I have a problem with you contributing to those threads without making your status completely clear. You don't need a new user name, you shouldn't leave. Clarity will only help your business. Be creative.



B-Squad said:


> When Ant takes over, I'm sure he'll decide what to do.
> 
> I asked legit questions about the SDS. Keep in mind we're all reading what I'm writing on a computer screen. This is hardly a constructive communication process. No insult or cheap shot intended.
> 
> ...


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> To them I'm just one of them, to YOU I'm a dealer.


This pretty much sums it up for me. 

I think of people like B-Squad as someone who sells products but doesn't sell the products he sells for the money, as much as because he truly believes in that particular product. Therefore, I think that B-Squad pretty much recommends every product he sells. So why fault him for recommending something he also sells? Seems asinine to me.  

You expect every time he gives an opinion on something he should also state his entire inventory?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

02bluesuperroo said:


> This pretty much sums it up for me.
> 
> I think of people like B-Squad as someone who sells products but doesn't sell the products he sells for the money, as much as because he truly believes in that particular product. Therefore, I think that B-Squad pretty much recommends every product he sells. So why fault him for recommending something he also sells? Seems asinine to me.
> 
> You expect every time he gives an opinion on something he should also state his entire inventory?


I should take a picture of my inventory! You guys would laugh your asses off!  No way I'd ever sell anything. Barrier/decoupler pad...lawn mower....golf clubs...that's friggen it!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Not one dollar has come my way from any comments I've made in any thread besides my own FS threads. I've NEVER tried to directly sell CAE products to anyone. You will NEVER hear me say 'Hey, wanna buy some Deflex pads?!?!" I might be kind of a dumbass business man, but I'm not a turd.


I'm not trying to beat up on you and I'm feeling sort of bad because you seem crestfallen. This isn't about you being a turd. I'm perfectly willing to believe that these concepts aren't second nature to everyone. I work with the Internet and businesses every day, so I have probably thought about these things more than most people do.

It's not a question of you coming into this thread and saying: Hey, buy Cascade Deflex pads from me! It's a lot less direct than that. You opine on the virtues of a particular product. You establish yourself as an expert over time. When people are in the market for the products you sell, they think of you. 

Now that I think about it, you really are doing a poor job of it - you're pushing the products like a salesman, but you aren't making it easy to close the deal. Poor sales technique aside, whether you profit form the activity or not, you are biased because you are in the business. As it is, you may be helping Cascade more than yourself, but my objection still applies. You are more enthusiastic about certain products than you would be if you were not connected to them. People need to be able to evaluate your enthusiasm in context.


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

it's almost like a chicken or the egg kind of thing....one may have gotten involved out of sheer interest and belief, and then once they hold a position in regards to that particular market their beliefs come with a grain of salt as alterior motives are potentially at play. but that's all i'll say, i like watching from the outside, too.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

freeride1685 said:


> it's almost like a chicken or the egg kind of thing....one may have gotten involved out of sheer interest and belief, and then once they hold a position in regards to that particular market their beliefs come with a grain of salt as alterior motives are potentially at play. but that's all i'll say, i like watching from the outside, too.


I think that's right and why complete transparency is the best policy. It gets very complicated very fast if we have to try and figure out which of the secret dealers are good and which aren't. If you're good, say it loud, say it proud!


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## Need-sq (May 26, 2007)

I thought this thread started as basically do dynaxorb/deflex/etc work as advertised?

I also thought that a pretty clear answer was given by at least two people. there is an effect in the upper midrange frequencies. 

I don't know that it's completely productive to bring into the post, what seems to be more of a personal conflict between two people 

It may be more useful/helpfull to start a thread regarding conflicts of interest etc...and or keep the more loaded/personal replies for elsewhere. Just my two cent, "big picture" observation/opinion, that's all.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Now that I think about it, you really are doing a poor job of it - you're pushing the products like a salesman


I know, I can't help it. Born on a used car lot. You should see my cheezy grin...much better than this --->  

If you expect every one of my posts from now on to be a dissertation, prepare to be disappointed. 

But way to lay it out there Don. One day I think I might really value your criticism. Honestly, I think it's great. For now, my sig remains the same. My post count remains the same. My user name is still the same. All the reviews I've written and feedback I've given to this site is still there. THAT'S my context. The INTERPRETATION of which relies on the READER!!!!!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Need-sq said:


> It may be more useful/helpfull to start a thread regarding conflicts of interest etc...and or keep the more loaded/personal replies for elsewhere. Just my two cent, "big picture" observation/opinion, that's all.


I agree, but when you're called you need to respond or else you look like you left the building on purpose.

Don calls people out. You'll see him do it a lot. Some get pissed and view it as condescending....maybe call him an *******. It's happened before. I have no issue with it, as he doesn't make it personal. I agree with the merit of his posts, but sometimes his delivery is ****.  No offense, Donald. 

No one's perfect and no one knows everything about everyone else. I wear pink slippers and listen to Duran Duran on my Hello Kitty iPod around my house. Sue me.


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

and let's face it....B-Squad is an *ultimate* member....meaning that if we were playing Final Fantasy or something, he would have at least 10,000 more hit points than everyone else...except maybe npdang, since he would have lightning magic level 3...which kind of just owns.


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## Need-sq (May 26, 2007)

B-Squad said:


> I agree, but when you're called you need to respond or else you look like you left the building on purpose.


agreed.

Don calls people out. You'll see him do it a lot. Some get pissed and view it as condescending....maybe call him an *******. It's happened before. I have no issue with it, as he doesn't make it personal. I agree with the merit of his posts, but sometimes his delivery is ****.  No offense, Donald. 

agreed.

No one's perfect and no one knows everything about everyone else. I wear pink slippers and listen to Duran Duran on my Hello Kitty iPod around my house. Sue me. 

there's nothing wrong with that


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

My experience with Cascade Audio deflex pads is that it helps to clearup the midrange. I didn't hear any gain in midbass output. Very minimal improvement for the price. I might try to do ensolite or neoprene foam behind the midbass in future installs.


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## ~thematt~ (Sep 14, 2007)

Abmolech said:


> ~thematt~ Is correct.
> 
> If this sort of marketing was true, do you think that your sub box would have standing waves (IE it has larger dimensions so it must to right?)
> 
> ...


Never get tired of hearing that from you Abmo!!  Its amazing what someone can learn through Education, and it was really yourself and a few others (thumbs up to werewolf!) that really helped me join the dots between my education (engineer) and my hobby (audio). From there, lots of research and white papers later, and I can confidently call bull$hit to heaps of marketing gimmicks!!

As a follow on from some other discussions around (minus the main business interest one) here is something to note. Dispersion of sound waves works on the principle of the dispersion occuring when the peak to valley depth is greater then 1/4 of the wavelength. 

Since the calc is C=Frequency x Wavelength, and C=343m/s (because we use real units here!) to diffuse midbass frequencies, the pad would need to be around ~1m from peak to valley in depth. This is why Anachoic chambers DO have diffusers of this size (even though they are only effective in the stereo directional rhelm as well)


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## Abmolech (Nov 2, 2006)

Should I quote the marketing that claims better response from SUB bass. 

The product is misleading and overly priced. 
The "softness" responds to midbass energy (IE acts like a spring??) Just how soft is it?
Come on this is a sad joke.

Save some intergrity and let this product fall ito a suitable "round file" were it belongs.


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## freeride1685 (Oct 3, 2007)

> The "softness" responds to midbass energy (IE acts like a spring??) Just how soft is it?


keep in mind...i am holding this dynaxorb square right here as we speak...
to be completely honest and somewhat crass, these squares feel about as soft as the most realistic cyber skin female replacement for the lonely men out there   

not that i have any...i repeat *any* knowledge relating to that subject whatsoever....

it has a bit of an oily coating on it too...maybe to keep it supple? it feels like it is coated with vitamin e or something.

and to repeat, it is VERY supple....mmm mmm  

so as far as sound absortion goes, i might actually believe it....but i dont know if it can really do much for bass without being much thicker...midbass though, i may believe and definitely midrange.


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## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

ECLIPSEsqfan said:


> So then these pads are only truly useful in "diffusing" certain target frquencies in a given range?
> 
> As mentioned earlier, wouldn't this "better bass" be nullified by the diffraction of the soundwaves and the vehicles' own natural harmonics? (this is assuming that it is used alone and not along with another product that would provide actual harmonic damping?)


So was this answered then? If it was, I apologize. I just didn't see if this was actually covered with all the thread-jacking going on.

Mario


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## zacjones99 (May 11, 2009)

So does anyone have any experience with these. I can't find much info on them here or anywhere else. I'd just use ensolite, but I'm trying to figure out a way to spend another $30 at onlinecarstereo.com to get a $15 discount after buying a dxz785usb. A 2-pack of these and a dynamat roller does the trick, but at the same time I would just get 2 dynamat rollers if these are really worthless. I'd be placing the pad behind a 6.5" midbass/midrange driver in each door. I've got about 1.5" of clearance behind the back of the driver to work with.


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