# What's the truth about RCA Cables?



## Mty Mous (Jun 23, 2005)

Hey guys,

I know the general consensus about amps is that they're all pretty much the same, and that I shouldn't get caught up in the hype. But what's the deal with RCA cables?

Right now I'm using the Lightning Audio cables, they're the mid grade level that's silver\blue in colour. I'm planning on ripping everything out and re-wiring it again as I'm not happy the way it was initially done by the shop.
Now that I'm more confident in what I can do and how far I'm willing to go, ... I want to do it right.

So should I just spend the money on the top of the line rca cables that companies like Monster Cable\Pheonix Gold\Lightning Audio has to offer? Or is that a waste of money?

The reason I can't use the existing ones is due to the male ends being screwed up, and it isn't the type that I can unscrew and replace. Although I guess I could just cut it\strip it\then solder it to a new screwable male end. But I'd rather upgrade if it's worth it.

Any and all input is much appreciated.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

there is a write up about RCAs in this months CA&E mag.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

I fond no sonic differences based on shielding. I DO notice a difference if the cable is UNshielded (cheapest thing radio shack has got) versus shielded, but once its shielded? I cant tell between the most expensive gear and the radioshack gold series.

dont get me wrong! there is a reason to be picky with cabling! It has to do with reliability of the connector and solder joints. Great example would be one of the KNU rca cable lines. the heads looked great, screwed on, felt secure, etc. But the shroud would slip out of the rca head threads, and pulling a connector to remove it, you would end up with a stress relief shroud in one hand, and your cable still plugged in! Thats a bad cable!

Radioshack gold series are another issue. the cable connector shield itself is flimsy metal. perfect for one time use, or home use where equipment isnt subject to the same violent vibration as a car environment. But if we are constantly changing things around (and who isnt here?) the shield tends to widen out, cables get loose over time, and the signal gets intermittant, scratchy, all sorts of problems arise. and crimping it back smaller is just never the same for signal transfer.

the last is solder joint reliability. Ive not had too many issues here, but its not uncommon to have a cable with a sheild that feels great, a solid connection, and then an audio signal that just sucks; then the installer wiggles the cable behind the head and the signal comes in crystal clear, everything is great? thats a bad cable!


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## fej (Feb 8, 2006)

I personally have always spent a little extra money on RCA cables .. not only for connection quality and signal retention, but for shielding and noise purposes. Understand when I say a "little extra money" I mean not using the $4 rca's from radio shack, using the $12-30 Knukonceptz cables.

If you head over to places like head-fi.com or other "audiophile" sites you will hear a lot of talk about cables. You will also hear about "critical listening" and training yourself to hear differences. To each their own. I doubt very much that you would hear any significant difference between properly installed and functioning RCA cables that were $1 a foot vs $80 a foot, especially in the car environment. Maybe in a much more audio friendly environment like the home or even more so in the high end headphone arenas. Lot less reflections and other distorted sound issues in those places than in the car, where some of the smallest details may be heard ... maybe

Just read White's response .. I have been using RS gold connectors in my home for years heh.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

If someone can make a business out of convincing people to buy $80 RCA cables, more power to them. But they won't be getting my money. 

Restating what fej said, as long as the cable is shielded and the connectors are solid enough to be used over and over again, they are good enough for me.


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> If someone can make a business out of convincing people to buy $80 RCA cables, more power to them. But they won't be getting my money.


$80? Thats cheap. What about the $1000+ per foot?


I prefer to just make my own. I have the choice of ends, make it what ever color I want, exact length, plus I know the solder joints are good. Plus if you use good ends you can just de-solder them and use them again.


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## Mty Mous (Jun 23, 2005)

Cool, that's what I thought, but I wanted to see what other have to say.

I'm upgrading my head unit to the Clarion DRZ9255, and I already had the JL Audio 250\4 and 300\1 amps, so I figured I'll spend the money on RCA cables if it really makes a difference, but if not, then I'll spend the money on upgrading the speakers instead.

Please keep posting your input on this topic as I'd like to know how many others agree or disagree.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

just buy knuconcepts. or get whatever brand can be found cheap on ebay. anything made by a car audio company should be shielded and that shoudl be good enough.

personally, i bought my RCA cables based on looks. for the long runs from HU to trunk i have some MTX-somthing cables that are black and look great. i am also making my own cables for the shorter runs so the install looks clean.


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## Mty Mous (Jun 23, 2005)

NaamanF said:


> $80? Thats cheap. What about the $1000+ per foot?
> 
> 
> I prefer to just make my own. I have the choice of ends, make it what ever color I want, exact length, plus I know the solder joints are good. Plus if you use good ends you can just de-solder them and use them again.


Any particular manufacturer in mind? For the ends or the cables?

Like I said, I already have the shielded mid-grade Lightning audio Blue\silver RCA cables, it's just that one of the male ends it screwed up and I'm contemplating just redoing the ends with screwable ones instead of the sealed ones that it currently has. After reading the responses, I guess I should forget upgrading now, as it seems that it'll just be a waste of time and money.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I build mine out of install grade audio/data cable that has a 100% foil sheild. BUT my car is VERY noisy in the RF arena. I have a Big Strapper fuel pump, gen-fer good buddy! My fuel pump can whipe out damn near the whole HF radio spectrum from 25-35 feet away and even dicks with the VHF spectrum up to around 175Mhz. 

Um yeah, I use heavy shielding  and the wire is only 20 cents a foot 

Chad


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

I have been buying mine from here-> http://www.homegrownaudio.com/ Not the cheapest by any means but they are solid and well built. You can find cheaper ones at partexpress or other online stores.

If money was no option I think I would be rollin' with WBTs.


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## solacedagony (May 18, 2006)

I've used both the cheap, thin Walmart ones and KnuKonceptz (running now) and I couldn't notice a difference.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Whiterabbit said:


> dont get me wrong! there is a reason to be picky with cabling! It has to do with reliability of the connector and solder joints.


Agreed. Any guitar players in here? How many cables do you have lying around? Ok, now how many BAD cables do you have lying around? Those damned things have a life that seems to be on the order of hours for some of them.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I don't generally use shielding. Call me a mental patient if you want, but I've had more problems with shielded "car audio" RCAs than non-shielded and I'm not sure why. I wonder what happens if the shield breaks somewhere along the line...


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> I don't generally use shielding. Call me a mental patient if you want, but I've had more problems with shielded "car audio" RCAs than non-shielded and I'm not sure why. I wonder what happens if the shield breaks somewhere along the line...


x2 for me
ive had far less problems with shielded as well in the car audio environment. so i guess im in the same ward as you MarkZ


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> Agreed. Any guitar players in here? How many cables do you have lying around? Ok, now how many BAD cables do you have lying around? Those damned things have a life that seems to be on the order of hours for some of them.



And then how many have heard microphonic guitar cables? That will drive you batty!

Chad


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Guitar cables are a totally different environment. Those get run over by heavy equipment, stepped on, pulled every which way, and then rolled up and unraveled over and over again.

Car RCAs are installed once and pretty much kept in place (unless you swap out equipment regularly). Sure they endure cold and hot climates but they don't have to move around nearly as much.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

chuyler1 said:


> Guitar cables are a totally different environment. Those get run over by heavy equipment, stepped on, pulled every which way, and then rolled up and unraveled over and over again.
> 
> Car RCAs are installed once and pretty much kept in place (unless you swap out equipment regularly). Sure they endure cold and hot climates but they don't have to move around nearly as much.


...except for initial installation, where car RCAs are yanked, pulled, and bent.


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## skierxx5556 (Dec 1, 2006)

I found this article I havent read the entire thing but its pretty interesting. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/skineffect/page1.html


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

I started a post like this on another forum once. The consensus what that the law of diminshing returns starts at around $30 a pair or so.

I totally agree with whiterabbit. But I would also say that I've had some Stinger cables with VERY tight fitting plugs get ripped apart due to the wire getting tugged away from the plug over time. 

The Knu cables I've had for probably 4 years still work great, but the plugs have loostened over time and I find myself taking a needle nose plyers after them from time to time to keep the connection snug.

So if you can justify the cost based on the level of equipment in your system as a whole, then spending over $30 makes sense. But spend that money on the quality, construction and durabiltiy of the cable, not on it's marketing ********. 

I was thinking of making my own line of car audio RCA cables and calling them Monsterous SQizze, but I probably can't afford the court fees when Monster Cable sues my ass.  

This place has some good stuff for pretty cheap: www.accessories4less.com otherwise Darvex (bagboy) on ebay is good as well. Also Bobdutch has a make your own sale going if you want to go the custom route.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

The " difference " in the sound of cables , is directly related to the quality of your equipment and install , but most importantly : How well your ears are trained to hear differences. 
Recently , I had Rockford Fosgate Riot Matrix , Streetwires Zero Noise 6N , and Daxx R-99 RCA cables in my car at one time , and could switch from one to another very easily. 
There were VERY noticible differences in tonality , as well as imaging / soundstaging.
In the end , only YOU can decide what is right for you ...


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## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

If I bought a 50" plasma TV for some grands, it would look better to me no matter how ordinary it appeared to others  

I don't think there will be an actual difference under 30'. But I agree, if it makes (or seems to make) an audible difference to the owner, that's what matters.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

AVI said:


> The " difference " in the sound of cables , is directly related to the quality of your equipment and install , but most importantly : How well your ears are trained to hear differences.
> Recently , I had Rockford Fosgate Riot Matrix , Streetwires Zero Noise 6N , and Daxx R-99 RCA cables in my car at one time , and could switch from one to another very easily.
> There were VERY noticible differences in tonality , as well as imaging / soundstaging.
> In the end , only YOU can decide what is right for you ...


Until you can prove that with cold hard numbers... I have a bridge to sell you.... In central Arizona.

Chad


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

chad said:


> Until you can prove that with cold hard numbers... I have a bridge to sell you.... In central Arizona.
> 
> Chad


Your ears don't hear numbers


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## The Blue Blur (Sep 14, 2006)

your ears only hear the faint breeze whisping through your wallet. That primarily accounts for the light airy sound.


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## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

I just build my own. I made up 12 runs for my last install and it cost me less than $100 total including shpping. The nice thing was that by doing that I could keep the runs down to the minimum possible and only ground the shield to one side of the cable cutting down potential problems.


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

Nass027 said:


> Your ears don't hear numbers


fine... what measureable attribute of the cables is different?


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Thoraudio said:


> fine... what measureable attribute of the cables is different?


So if it can't be measured then it can't be true?


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

Nass027 said:


> So if it can't be measured then it can't be true?


if it can't be measured, how do the 'engineers' know what materials to use, what metals, what connects, what solders, what dielectrics?


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Thoraudio said:


> if it can't be measured, how do the 'engineers' know what materials to use, what metals, what connects, what solders, what dielectrics?


The difference could start with something simple like a solid core piece of copper wire as compared to an equal thickness Litz wire configuration.That would be a similarity in that they are the same thickness but one solid piece as compared to several individual wires equal to it.Would it sound different?


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

Nass027 said:


> The difference could start with something simple like a solid core piece of copper wire as compared to an equal thickness Litz wire configuration.That would be a similarity in that they are the same thickness but one solid piece as compared to several individual wires equal to it.Would it sound different?


would it measure differently? Are the LCR properties significantly changed?


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

well i dont think there is to much difference here... i DO THINK there is however a difference as others stated between 2.99 20ft ones and 20$ 20ft ones... i am using the dlc corp "audiophile" ones... they really work pretty sweet and are well built i think the 17ft ones are like 20 or less....however i didnt like the pure silver ones i used they didnt sound right to me almost a harsh tone to them..and to that i say buy a good cable but dont spend a fortune on them. normally i build my own using belden twisted / shielded pair and whatever ends i can find that are of good quality right now i bought up some zn6.0 ends i have tons of them,..lol...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

^^^so is there a difference or not? first you say there's not, but then that you heard a difference. ??????

i swapped out the base Phoenix rcas connecting my IDX to my XEQ with some Monster 402s and there was a noticeable difference in the lower midrange and midbass. 

on another note, why all the hating on Monster? if i had to pay for them i probably wouldn't use them based on price alone, but i do like them. i really like MITs too but i'm not going to sell my car to buy them either.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Thoraudio said:


> would it measure differently? Are the LCR properties significantly changed?


You got me?I'm not an engineer or any other kind of scientific person.My intent here wasn't to get into a i know more etc. discussion.When i said you ears don't hear numbers i was alluding to the fact that there are a lot of things in the audio/video world that can't be measured but can sound different.I have read interviews with product builders where they were asked why a certain "????" and replied it just sounded better in there or we can't figure out why,it just works.Some people can't hear differences in a Walmart stereo as compared to Mark Levison(a little extreme i know) but should they buy the Levison?Hell no,they can't hear the difference so keep your money and you will be happy with the Walmart special.One mans reference and ideas of what should be is different than another designers, so who is right?In a car it would be pretty tough to hear the differences in the RCA's with all the other noise factored in,too many variables i would think.In the house where it is nice and quiet you have a lot better chance of hearing any difference.If one person can't hear any difference it doesn't mean that no one else can either or is that what you think?


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

This is REAl simple actually ..... There is NO END to this arguement ... PERIOD.

Here's my simple take .... Go ahead and spend 5 to 10 thousand on a great car audio system. Then hook it all up with $100 worth of wire. Your system will NEVER sound better than it's weakest link.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

i do not think there is a difference among the copper based cables.. i do think the pure silver ones have a diff sound to them.. that was what i was saying.. but those pure silver obes are huge dollars and i think they sounded worse imo..


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

AVI--i agree 100% zfactor--every silver cable i have heard sounded different than a copper cable,but (gulp) i have heard different sounding copper cables too.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

i would rather take rc's amp challenge than to hear a difference of "tonality" and "imaging / soundstaging" of rca cables


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## fej (Feb 8, 2006)

As was said earlier, there is no end to this arguement. What one person hears is not the same as another .. never will be. Tuning is its own animal as well. I just don't feel that $500 per ft cable is going to make an ant dick worth of difference in the car ... its dirty listening in there as is even with tons of work to clean it up. If I was not paying for cable and making "vendor" car builds I would be using cable like that just because it would add to the "kewl" factor, no other reason (oh and it would not be on my dime)

Save your money and upgrade your front stage, buy more watts, or do more sound deadening .. these will all have a far greater impact on your system than any $500 cable will.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Absolutely,if you're looking for the cables to make the difference you are looking in the wrong place.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Maybe I should clarify one little thing .... While I definitely am one of the guys who hears differences in every part of an audio system , I FULLY believe there is a reasonable and practical limit of diminishing returns ! The only real difference in myself and the other crowd , is that my upper cut-off point for RCAs is around $250 for a 16ft pair ( silver btw ) ... and probably $6 per foot for speaker cable.
However , allow me to emphatically state that _*to me*_ , the difference UNDER this price range can make the sound vary GREATLY to my ears


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Now are we talking standard interconnect or are we including the cables such as MIT (Music Interface Technology) and Transparent Audio cables? These cables have network modules that are suppose to improve sound, staging and imaging. I have also noticed differences in the standard cables; they were small, but a difference never the less. When you move the the networked cables the difference is more noticeable. On the silver or copper thing, I like the best of both worlds, I like silver plated copper myself.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Here-I-Come said:


> Now are we talking standard interconnect or are we including the cables such as MIT (Music Interface Technology) and Transparent Audio cables? These cables have network modules that are suppose to improve sound, staging and imaging. I have also noticed differences in the standard cables; they were small, but a difference never the less. When you move the the networked cables the difference is more noticeable. On the silver or copper thing, I like the best of both worlds, I like silver plated copper myself.


Well , as crazy as this may sound .... I used to own a high end home audio shop , and I actually used Tara Labs " The One " cables in my car one time , and as awesome as those cables are in home audio , they did NOT sound good in my car ... LOL


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

AVI said:


> Maybe I should clarify one little thing .... While I definitely am one of the guys who hears differences in every part of an audio system , I FULLY believe there is a reasonable and practical limit of diminishing returns ! The only real difference in myself and the other crowd , is that my upper cut-off point for RCAs is around $250 for a 16ft pair ( silver btw ) ... and probably $6 per foot for speaker cable.
> However , allow me to emphatically state that _*to me*_ , the difference UNDER this price range can make the sound vary GREATLY to my ears


I'm in full agreement with you.I also hear the differences and as you said there is a limit of diminishing returns.I just think that like was stated before chances of you changing cables and suddenly it turned your system in to 'The BOMB" are probably unlikely.Spend your money on the best components you can afford and finish off with some good quality cables but don't expect miracles.If you have the coin and the ears to experiment well then 'tally-ho"


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## paintrodsey (Nov 15, 2006)

Check out audioholics.com, go to the cable section, its a home theater website, but it goes into different types of speaker cables and interconnects. It has alot of good info, with the numbers to back it up.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Nass027 said:


> When i said you ears don't hear numbers i was alluding to the fact that there are a lot of things in the audio/video world that can't be measured but can sound different.


No there aren't.

If there isn't a difference present in the compression and rarefaction of the air, then there is no difference. This is not debatable.

Now if you want to make the argument that cables can result in a difference in the sound wave that makes its way to your ears, then fine. But you can't say that it's not a measurable quantity.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> No there aren't.
> 
> If there isn't a difference present in the compression and rarefaction of the air, then there is no difference. This is not debatable.
> 
> Now if you want to make the argument that cables can result in a difference in the sound wave that makes its way to your ears, then fine. But you can't say that it's not a measurable quantity.



I concur, and not only that, numbers can vary rather greatly and we won't hear squat! You would be amazed to what we are tolerant to in terms of numbers /vs/ what we hear. A big part of my gob is using those limitations to make things better, and there ARE ways to do that.

Chad


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

There may be situations where we do not have the tools to measure numbers...but our ears are actually the best sound recording piece of equipment available...unfortunately the mind can corrupt what they hear. The only opinion I will accept in comparison tests are ones that are done blindly or ones that have physical data to back them up.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Actually our ears suck, it's our minds, that interpret data, manipulate it to depict direction, height, and fore/aft is what's amazing. 

Remember we are not born to listen, we are born to hear. People blind from birth have to be trained to sense height from sound, it's a combined sense with eyesight or feel from learning.

Thru all ths remember we are born to hunt and protect, not listen to music, just like any other animal. Our mind plays an important role in this.

I know a man that is deaf in one ear but one of the best listeners I now, he can pick things out of music that you will never hear. Now, plug one ear for a day and imagine doing just that. His mind has learned to adjust to the handicap, the mind is a wonderful thing.

Chad


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> No there aren't.
> 
> If there isn't a difference present in the compression and rarefaction of the air, then there is no difference. This is not debatable.
> 
> Now if you want to make the argument that cables can result in a difference in the sound wave that makes its way to your ears, then fine. But you can't say that it's not a measurable quantity.


 You are probably right sir.I am stating what i have read in Sterophile and the absolute sound over the years where on more than one occasion a designer has said i don't know it just works.Now they might be saying this tongue in cheek,i don't know.And i am not one of these people who believes that if it is written then it has to be true.I don't have a side on this,it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.At the time i just thought it was funny coming out of the mouths of the guys that make it happen. Please don't ask for an example  as i don't keep my back issues anymore.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Be careful of what manufacturers say. They've been known to be wrong more often than being right. Especially when you've got JL Audio writing "tech articles" that directly contradict Adire Audio's "tech articles. Even the Zed Audio guy whose ass gets kissed by everyone has a webpage up full of nonsense. He's designed some nice amps at a good price, but that doesn't mean he's the all out expert on everything.

So when the designer you read says he doesn't know, take him at his word.


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

chad said:


> Actually our ears suck, it's our minds, that interpret data, manipulate it to depict direction, height, and fore/aft is what's amazing.
> 
> Remember we are not born to listen, we are born to hear. People blind from birth have to be trained to sense height from sound, it's a combined sense with eyesight or feel from learning.
> 
> ...


Very well said. 

I think this is why many of us never stop tinkering with our systems. Our minds are constantly changing and we are constantly learning how to interpret the data and the more we improve the data going to it the more we learn.

On the same token, I believe this is why we will never agree on a topic like this. It all depends where you are on the listening evolutionary scale. Some may have trained their ear to hear differences as minute as a change in cables. 

I myself cannot hear the difference among RCA cables unless the quality of the cable is VERY low. I also have not had much listening experience. My current system consists of only coaxes. Luckily, I'm moving up soon because en route is a set of Seas Neos, a DCX-730, and some Phaze Audio mids. :shamelessplug:


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Be careful of what manufacturers say. They've been known to be wrong more often than being right. Especially when you've got JL Audio writing "tech articles" that directly contradict Adire Audio's "tech articles. Even the Zed Audio guy whose ass gets kissed by everyone has a webpage up full of nonsense. He's designed some nice amps at a good price, but that doesn't mean he's the all out expert on everything.


... he certainly didn't get an ass-kissing from me, on ECA a year or two back


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

if your pure silver RCAs art in some way 'coloring' the sound signal, then you have a pretty bad set of RCAs. there should be no difference in the signal from when it exits one component and arrives at the next. if you are swapping RCAs and hearing sonic differences, either your ears or your cables are broken.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

internecine said:


> if your pure silver RCAs art in some way 'coloring' the sound signal, then you have a pretty bad set of RCAs. there should be no difference in the signal from when it exits one component and arrives at the next. if you are swapping RCAs and hearing sonic differences, either your ears or your cables are broken.


But exactly what one is supposed to hear? How do you know its not the lesser grade cable making the most difference to/or coloring the signal? Thats the debate IMO.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

blind testing set up by someone else, or taking measurements.


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

Ok guys. Not to change the subject, BUT...

This is kinda along the same topic.
What about speaker wires- both guage differences and "manufacturer differences" ? I mean, is that $2/ft. Monster Cable wire better than a $.50/ft. wire from Lowes or Home Depot? What should the choice be based upon?


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

have you ever noticed that, despite the lack of real data, that they always seem to come out with something better....

and it's always 'just right'.... 

with DSP and EQ, you can make a system sound bad in a heart beat.... but these tweeks and tunes always make the 'soundstage wider' (but not too wide), the highs clearer (but not shrill), the bass deeper (but not boomier), etc... etc...


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