# 2011 scion xb, first build log.



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I discover this site and i'm very thankful for everyone that offered me advice in the past. i decided to become a paid member because of all the great people on here that share their advice and knowledge for free. i'm a stay-at-home dad with limited budged and work on my car as an escape/hobby, quality sound and a clean install. i never had the pleasure of demoing an sq car but i'm hoping to do so as soon as i find someone in Miami. here are the equipments i have so far. 

head unit
pioneer avh-x5600

processor
ms-8

amps
ms-1004 (2)
ms-5001

mids
silver flute 6.5

tweets
seas prestige 27TAFNC/G (H1397) 1" aluminum dome tweeter

sub
jl 12w3v3


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Had this installed at a shop a few days ago. Loving it so far.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.

I'm hoping to hear some competition systems next month - I'm afraid it'll put me in my place, but hopefully I'll learn a thing or two as well.

Where do you have the Silver Flutes crossed? How do you like them?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Pita, but worth it.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

tjswarbrick said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> I'm hoping to hear some competition systems next month - I'm afraid it'll put me in my place, but hopefully I'll learn a thing or two as well.
> 
> Where do you have the Silver Flutes crossed? How do you like them?


They are crossed at 80 and 2500 with 24db slope. And the seas tweets from 2500 roll off naturally (I think that's how you say that) with 24db also. 
I really like them, sounds really nice. With some songs I sometimes think I don't need a sub.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I currently only have one of the 4 channel amp installed to the silver flute and seas running active, along with the 5001 to the jl 12w3v3 in a 1 cubic feet prefab box. I'll be installing the ms8 and the other 1004 in a few weeks.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Just got this in from Joe at WestCo. Best rca cable I've seen, and it comes with a lifetime warranty. This will go from my head unit to the ms8.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Agreed - Joe makes a great cable.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

You may want to make an investment in some dampener and some egg crate or jute. The doors on the xB's are a rattle trap, I know, I've got one...


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Tks. I have 25% coverage of the inner and outer door skin, I'll completely seal off the inner skin and add some to the door card within a few weeks.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

If you do not find the foam or egg crate you can get some of this for the door cards, 


This one has glue but I would still use some Loctite 300 spray adhesive for it
Shop Frost King 12-in x 180-in Insulated Aluminum Duct at Lowes.com

This is another good material that could be used, it is less expensive I would probably try to use velcro or maybe some deadener CLD to keep it in place, it is only available on line

UltraTouch 48 in. x 6 ft. Radiant Barrier-30000-11406 at The Home Depot

I would also try to get a foam similar to this to have a better seal between the speaker and the door panel 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...urround-guides-who-sells-them-unnamed-98-.jpg


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for the links. I already have lots of stinger roadkill and the nvx brand, along with some stinger overkill for the 2 front doors. I just need to get the time to do it. 
I will do the sound deaden of the doors. Then I will figured out how to do a false floor to hide the ms8 and the 3 amps. I want to keep my spare tire, so i might have to raise the floor 1 or 2 inches.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

SQLnovice said:


> Thanks for the links. I already have lots of stinger roadkill and the nvx brand, along with some stinger overkill for the 2 front doors. I just need to get the time to do it.
> I will do the sound deaden of the doors. Then I will figured out how to do a false floor to hide the ms8 and the 3 amps. I want to keep my spare tire, so i might have to raise the floor 1 or 2 inches.


I found that the door card was horribly noisy, MAKE the time to properly dampen the card itself fully as well as the sail panel assembly.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks chefhow
and thanks to metricmuscle for suggesting this fused chart on another thread:
Use the proper sized fuse for the wire size.

American Wire Gauge Fuse Size

00 awg 400 amps
0 awg 325 amps
1 awg 250 amps
2 awg 200 amps
4 awg 125 amps
6 awg 80 amps
8 awg 50 amps
10 awg 30 amps
12 awg 20 amps
14 awg 15 amps
16 awg 7.5 amps


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Mmmm, I'm not sure about that. That is the maximum, I have a 60amp fuse for my 4 gauge wire and I doubt I would go higher than 80 amps. It's better to have some cushion of protection.


The products I listed will help just a bit on 2 things but not as much as the CLD road kill with vibration and rattles.

The CLD helps with rattles and vibration on the door card, but will not give the acoustic benefit of 3/4" open cell foam on the door card. 

The foam will help to reduce resonances in the panel and absorb sound waves that CLD will not do on the door card.

If a lot music will be played while driving and the doors are noisy (road and outside noise), then MLV and CCF on the inner door is what will reduce a lot of that noise, way more than CLD and foam, or the ultra touch or F king product.

And that is a lot of work, and improvising to fit the panels in place.

We just want you to do it right the first time


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Would there be any benefit going from the 6.5 silver flute to the 8" silver flute? And going from 100 watts to 200 each for the 8'?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm not familiar about placing 8"s on the doors, in most cases the ones using 8"s will also have some 3"'s for mids, and run a 3 way front system. The 6.5" flutes from what I read play up to 5khz well, making them ideal for a 2 way system. If the 8" flutes can play close to 2- 3khz then I would say it may be worth it except for the cutting, the new grill, extra deadener and custom work involved to do it. 
Maybe someone more familiar with those 8" s can share their experience or know other 8"s that can work well.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> I'm not familiar about placing 8"s on the doors, in most cases the ones using 8"s will also have some 3"'s for mids, and run a 3 way front system. The 6.5" flutes from what I read play up to 5khz well, making them ideal for a 2 way system. If the 8" flutes can play close to 2- 3khz then I would say it may be worth it except for the cutting, the new grill, extra deadener and custom work involved to do it.
> Maybe someone more familiar with those 8" s can share their experience or know other 8"s that can work well.


Thanks, somehow I missed that the silver flute plays that high. I now have the silver flute crossed from 80-3k, and my tweets from 3k up. System sounds much better.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

Alrojoca said:


> Mmmm, I'm not sure about that. That is the maximum, I have a 60amp fuse for my 4 gauge wire and I doubt I would go higher than 80 amps. It's better to have some cushion of protection.
> 
> 
> The products I listed will help just a bit on 2 things but not as much as the CLD road kill with vibration and rattles.
> ...



cld dampens panel vibration, ccf isolates panels from vibrating against each other, and mlv is a barrier. 3/4" foam can not absorb sound. its not thick enough. 

give sounddeadenershowdown.com a read sometime.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> Thanks, somehow I missed that the silver flute plays that high. I now have the silver flute crossed from 80-3k, and my tweets from 3k up. System sounds much better.


:rockon::rockon::thumbsup:

It takes time and trying different settings to make it better.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

lithium said:


> cld dampens panel vibration, ccf isolates panels from vibrating against each other, and mlv is a barrier. 3/4" foam can not absorb sound. its not thick enough.
> 
> give sounddeadenershowdown.com a read sometime.


I guess when 2 posts are placed within an hour, I do not get the instant notifications, and this one was one I miss, otherwise I would have replied minutes after reading it. 

It is just the way you want to understand it and interpret what I said.

Foam has acoustical properties, and it will absorb sound, not the sound you thought I was talking about. Different frequencies, not the road noise.

Many members use open cell foam on the panels. Some manufacturers like Hertz, put rubber over their magnets to help with the back wave or sound that is not related to road noise. Foam will not have the same effect of Thinsulate but it does help to put some foam over the CLD placed on the door panel.


OCF absorbs sound at some frequencies, not road noise. And it also does the same thing CCF does.

CCF also deflects sound and it does not absorb much or affects sound in anyway, it is used as gasket and it also helps with noise from vibration if placed between 2 parts of the panel that overlap and vibrate making noise when playing loud music. 
It also does not absorb water, it resists ozone, chemicals and moisture. 

OCF can also be used instead of CCF, the only reason CCF is preferred is because of the extra benefits it has that boils down to durability, and the higher cost reflects that. 

Foam thickness helps, depending on the quality and density, when I said 3/4" it was just one layer out of a few used, there are many air gaps in the door card, the ideal thing will be to fill up those gaps and spaces that will not affect the panel when putting it back in place, foam will delay or restrict air flow more than nothing being there.

CLD besides what we know it does, It also improves mid bass response (some good brands) others simply dampen the metal or plastic. I would not put CLD on the floors, most cars have very thick metal on the floor that does not need CLD, I would only place it on a area where a sub will be installed. 


There are many materials that claim to have sound barrier and acoustical properties, they may only have them in larger amounts or thicknesses.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

the absorption of sound by foam is dependent on thickness. frequencies with quarter wavelengths smaller than the thickness of the foam are absorbed. So to attenuate 1000hz you would need ~8cm thick foam. 

ccf is not dense enough to deflect sound for the frequencies produced by a woofer in a door. 

ocf doesn't compress well so its a ****ty gasket compared to ccf. 

no idea what you mean by cld improves midbass. it simply dampens panel resonance. i guess if the panels are vibrating in the midbass range than dampening those would improve midbass response.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

lithium said:


> the absorption of sound by foam is dependent on thickness. frequencies with quarter wavelengths smaller than the thickness of the foam are absorbed. So to attenuate 1000hz you would need ~8cm thick foam.
> 
> ccf is not dense enough to deflect sound for the frequencies produced by a woofer in a door.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I have some ccf by dynamat I just have to install it on the doors and see how it all sounds.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Center channel speaker recommendation for the ms-8. From my understanding, adding a center channel to a 2 way active with the ms-8 is great for the overall SQ. I have no idea what speaker to used as a center. I have the amp already and it will be getting approximately 200 watts. Can someone suggest a few center channel speaker so I can start looking into this option. Thanks.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

They have said in the MS8 thread that the bigger the driver the better. If you are using a 2way front (6.5"/1") then you should try to get a 6.5"coax in the dash, but where are you going to put it with the gauge cluster the way it is in the xB's?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Very true. I'll see if what I can do if it c be recessed into the dash a little an go from there. My wife and 3 year old daughter love music just as much as I do and my daughter's car seat is in the center of the back seat. So if I can get a center channel it will be perfect for her too. I'll read up on removing the dash or see if there is room under the middle of the dash closer to the windshield.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I had some time today and was trying to figured the layout of the ms8 and 3 ms amps. I spend about an hour staring at a piece of board 38" by 16" trying to come up with a layout that i like, which would have been attached to the back of the rear seat. I didn't get anywhere. I was doing this as a temporary setup until I have the time to build a false floor for the amps and ms8. I'll give it a shot again tomorrow. 
ps making your own rca's are not as easy as it looks on youtube.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Go to mono price for RCA's, they may not have too short ones but they are cheap and exceeded my expectations when I got a few pairs and I tested them. They are thick and take way too much space in car applications but for short runs from the DSP to the amps, they will be just fine. The thing about car RCA's the are built as a single cable and 2 channels. The Mono price are 2 separate cables, they can be separated, but take a lot of room.

Or Wesco here may make you some for a fair price with the Canare cables, I have used that same cable in home applications and it has worked very well for me, very flexible cables. These are also separated 2 individual cables but not as bulky as the the mono price ones if room is an issue.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Alrojoca, thanks. I got one 2 channel cable from from WesCo already. I'll use this one for the main run from my head unit to the ms8. I wanted to make my own because I could get them the exact length so the install would look nice and clean. I'll buy some cheap ones just to complete the install, and i'll practice soldering and try to make my own again.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Did you install the W12GTi yet? Interested to see your install and your thoughts on how it sounds.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Not yet, hopefully I'll install the ms-8 along with the 3 ms amps this weekend. I haven't done anything because I'v been very indecisive regarding where to put the amps/ms-8. I first was going to build a false floor. Then got carried away with buying tools for the build (plunge router, circular saw, jig saw, drill/router bits etc) Then I taught of displaying them on the back of the rear seat. Now I finally decided to put the ms-8 under the drivers seat and the 3 amps under the passenger seat. I have to make a modification the under part of the seat, but all 3 will fit like a glove. 

teldzc1- I see you have the jl750/1, If the 5001 is not enough for the 12gti, this will be the next amp i'll be considering. 

I'll definitely keep you posted.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Cool man. I like the 750/1, but if you're running sealed you might want to get the 1200/1. If you go ported the 750/1 is fine. Buying amps for these seem hard because most mono amps seem optimized for 2 and 1 ohm outputs and many 2 channel amps can't go to 3 ohm mono.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks that would be a good idea on the 1200/1. Thats why I might go with jl for this sub, because they do the same watts at 2 or 4 ohms, so I think it's safe to say they'll do the same at 3 ohms.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Did this today. Don't know if it will make a difference. I have some ccf to install on both doors, but can't decide if I should seal off the doors or just add the ccf.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

i have the 2012 xb and i did seal the doors,but i did leave 3 small but big enough holes to allow for any water that gets in there to drain,with a 1 inch thick mdf ring you can safely fit an 8 in each door that is 3 1/2 inches deep also,and still get the door card back on with having any problems with the speaker hitting it


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks, you have 8s in your.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

yes sir,dayton rs225 4 ohm


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I keep buying stuff. On vacation decided to check out a stereo shop. And decided to buy this, don't really need it but it's better than what I have.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

That's a nice fused power dist block.

I went with just a 2 way fused dist block recently. And I will just add a second 4G line for a third amp if I decide to do it.

One thing I am also doing is getting a circuit breaker to replace the in line fused box at the battery.

I am sick of loosing all my HU settings and saved stations every time I disconnect the neg T from the Battery.

The last 2 times I simply disconnected the amp's ground, then, removed the fuse at the battery to be able to swap amps, without risk of anything and not loosing my HU settings.

By the way my newer 4 ch MS amp, had no sound out of the 1st channel, RF. the mixer worked ok from the 1-2 inputs to play on the speaker terminals 3-4 and 3-4 inputs also played well out of speaker terminals 3-4.

Something wrong at spk terminal 1. I'm sending it back to Sonic this week for replacement.

I'm using a Kappa amp until I get the other one and it works very well, very clean sound and decent power also, sending unfiltered signals to my Morel MX22.2 passive biampable crossover


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Wow, i have a new ms 1004 still in the box, i'll test it this week just to make sure all is working fine. 
I was thinking of using a circuit breaker too, instead of the inline fuse.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

There are some good ones that do not require ring terminals, but I have not seen any below 120 amps, the big ones need ring terminals and that is a pain to deal with and cost extra time and cash.

Looks like Your Dist block also has a ground dist block included also, nice! 

Maybe for Florida weather you never have to worry about the circuit breaker failing or fusing the contacts due to cold or wet weather, it may dry fast if kept under the hood.

I am sure you can just place it right before the dist block and still leave the in line fuse holder in place, just make sure the fuses on the dist block are just below the value that is needed for each amp to have weak links but not too weak for fuses to keep blowing, maybe 50 amps for the MS amps with G4 wire and 40amps if used with g8 wire. 

you may also have to raise the fuse value at the main wire by battery if the 3 amplifiers exceed the power the main wire and fuse can handle, it's a good idea to use one that is within close to limits for the the total max power the amps will be delivering since you will never be using all the max power on the amplifiers.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

ANL fuse will react much quicker than a circuit breaker, a lot of the circuit breakers out there will actually flow up to 700% of rated for a few seconds. it only takes a few seconds to start a car burning. good luck, i have a 2008 xb, that is very slowly coming together, so i cant wait to see where your car audio journey takes you in yours.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

jpeezy said:


> ANL fuse will react much quicker than a circuit breaker, a lot of the circuit breakers out there will actually flow up to 700% of rated for a few seconds. it only takes a few seconds to start a car burning. good luck, i have a 2008 xb, that is very slowly coming together, so i cant wait to see where your car audio journey takes you in yours.


Thanks, I decided not to go with the circuit breaker because I already have the inline fuse and don't want to spend another $60 bux. Also, i read that every-time the circuit breaker pops, it gets less and less effective. Don't know how true this is but i'll stick with the inline fuse for now.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info about the C breakers

To me the purpose of the CB is only to cut the power off
Rather than disconnect the battery and loose stations and current time and HU settings

They are only $10.00 and can be placed anywhere it's convenient and the amperage is meaningless since it will be just used as a switch, and not so much for main protection. 

I just do not like seeing that spark every time I connect the gnd or an manl fuse
I'm getting used to it it but I would prefer to just flip a switch and save time and stress to the wires

Maybe there are other better alternatives and devices

I'm thinking a CB just for the ground will do the job for me


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I finally install my jbl w12gti sub into a sonic belva 1.5 cubic feet box. Omg this sub is a monster when it comes to bass. It's too much bass for me but after I get all my ms8 installed I should be able to tune it to my liking. 
I was worried that the jbl ms 5001 would not be enough for this sub but it should be perfect for my setup. 
Also I'm sending the jbl ms 5001 a full range signal (I think that's how you say it) I connect it to the output from the jbl ms 1004, and it's much more powerful. I have to recalibrate it with the cd tomorrow. I had it connected to the sub output from the head unit.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

I wouldnt worry to much about spark, that is usually because of stiffening capacitors, second battery, and or your amps have a fair amount of storage capacitance built in (which is a good thing . mo pics !


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

jpeezy said:


> I wouldnt worry to much about spark, that is usually because of stiffening capacitors, second battery, and or your amps have a fair amount of storage capacitance built in (which is a good thing . mo pics !


Good to know, i'm not going to be worried about that spark now too.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Just a temporary setup for easy access until I learn how to tune a little.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I'll attach the board to the back of the seat for now and I'll build a false floor later for the permanent install. 
These guys are sexy I'll figure out a way to show them off a bit once in the floor.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Question.
I'll be using one of the ms-1004 amp bridged to power my 2 midbass in the front doors. How should I set the imput mixer on the amp? And do I just connect 1 pair of rca from the ms-8 to the 1004 amp input channel 1 and 3?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> Question.
> I'll be using one of the ms-1004 amp bridged to power my 2 midbass in the front doors. How should I set the imput mixer on the amp? And do I just connect 1 pair of rca from the ms-8 to the 1004 amp input channel 1 and 3?


On page 12 it shows, 1,2 3,4 and 1 and 3 inputs, and also your speaker terminals show how they should be bridged for 2 channel output


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks I just reread that, it's slowly coming together.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for the pm. Just to clarify. The input mixer should read 1,2 for one channel and 3,4 for the other. I will not have them powered up until tomorrow, so I'm just going it over in my head and trying to clear up any perceived issue. No music for 2 days now so I'm starting to get withdrawals.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> Thanks for the pm. Just to clarify. The input mixer should read 1,2 for one channel and 3,4 for the other. I will not have them powered up until tomorrow, so I'm just going it over in my head and trying to clear up any perceived issue. No music for 2 days now so I'm starting to get withdrawals.


Yes that is what the mixer should display according to the manual bridging the 4 channels for a 2 ch stereo mode.

Unless those tweeters can handle 200W each, maybe I would use the extra 2 channels for rear fill or add some 2"-2.5" mids to fill the gaps the other 2 drivers will try to fill. if you bridge one amp to have 200w per tweeter keep the output level under 50. 
Remember these amps put like 300W/ch in bridged mode not 200 be careful with the tweeters, I would start at 30 output level and balance from there.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

What are you crossing the w12gti at? Also you'll probably need to eq the sub to get its best out of it.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> What are you crossing the w12gti at? Also you'll probably need to eq the sub to get its best out of it.


I'll try 30 - 90 first and go from there.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks Glen305. I'll give these a shot for mids. They are small, has a wide frequency range and the price is just what I want spend. 

Scanspeak Discovery 5F/8422T-01 2" Full Range

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...scanspeak-discovery-5f/8422t-01-2-full-range/


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Well I got everything wired up and did a few calibrations of the ms8 and ms amps. Everything sounded amazing. Right away i taught this is the best sounding system i ever had, with one exception. Not enough volume. I listened to the system last nigh for about 30 minutes including a few calibrations. 
The sound stage was up in front of me, bass was great, midbass was on the low side. 

Bradknob--thanks for the fast pm reply and the information you provided. I'll re-calibrate with your suggestions later on tonight. 

Well, today i went to eat lunch and about 15 minutes into the drive, i lost all sound from the left side. 
My left tweeter and left midbass, both of these are on different ms1004 amps. 

I have one ms amp running my tweets 200 watts each and the other ms amp on my silver flute. I know its a lot of power for the tweets but since the ms amps have the volume control, i'm assuming this will not be an issue. 

I'll re-calibrate tonight and see if i get back sound on the left side. Also if anyone has any suggestion, please feel free to offer me your assistance. 

I'm going to be driving to Orlando and back tomorrow, its a 4 hour drive each way, so i'm hoping i'll be able to have so good music for the solo drive.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

How'd the drive go? Did you get things sorted out before?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I had Okay music on the way back. I'm in the process of getting thing right based on some of my install, settings, and turning mistakes. I'm able to get acceptable volume. However my left tweeter volume is very low compare to the right. I will switch the amps around to see if it's still an issue. For now I'm thinking that the input #3 on the amp is defective. I will have time on Friday to get to the bottom of it. 
However sound quality is great. The sound of the bass is perfect, nice, smooth, punchy, fast, accurate (I hope I use those terms correctly lol) 
Still can't get any midbass out of the silver flute but it's my error. I'll get them dialed in once I read, learn, and with advice from this forum.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Well, one of my ms-1004 amp is defictive and was causing a bunch of tuning problems with the ms-8. So I switched everything to the other ms-1004 amp and now my sustem sounds really good. 
As far as getting enough volume. I set my ms-1004 and ms-1-5001 amp gain according to the instructions from the manual with the CD. I know when tuning with the ms-8, it stated to turn the gain down all the way. But I was not able to get enough volume when the gain was all the way counter clockwise. The way I did this was hooking up the rca directly to the amps. Once the gain was set, I then unplugged it from the amps and connected it back onto channel 1 & 2 input of the ms-8. I then set the volume of each channel to 55 and proceeded with my ms-8 calibration. Then when finished, i increased the volume on my midbass to 75, tweets to 70, and sub amp volume to 65. MS-8 volume during calibration was -45, and once completed I increased to -6.

teldzc1--The bass is really really nice, very punchy, accurate, and loud enough. As of now, I'm going to enjoy it until I see what sonic will do about the deffictive amp. I purchased it 4 months ago and didn't hooked it up until recently. 
I have my sub facing up in a sealed box and i'm loving the bass this combo produce. I tried it facing the side and rear and I like it facing up better. I can only imagine what bass would sound/feel like if I feed this jbl w12gti. 
As of now, a 3-way front system is on hold until I know what sonic will do regarding the amp.
My next project to tackle is to built a ported box for the sub.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Glad to hear it. Love that sub. What are you planning on for ported? Just an fyi, I had to tune quite a bit after going ported. Sounds totally different. Still good, but like a totally different sub. The low bass qty is unreal when ported. Actually had to tune a lot of it down.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I never build a box before. About 2 months ago I went ahead and purchased some tools (router, a few bits, circle saw, jig saw, and a few other small stuff) I have to build 2 saw horse and i'll give the ported box a shot. 
I'll go with jbl specs and see what happens. But this sub sounds perfect (never had the pleasure to listen to an SQ car yet) The clean, punchy, accurate, deep bass I had envision. 
I emailed sonic yesterday and they approved my return for the defective amp. I'll ship it out tomorrow and wait for the new one to come. 
I'm a little of a bass head, even tho i'm 41 i like my rap music along with other genres. I know yours must be sounding sweet with that amp. I'll enjoy listening to this for now and once i get the replacement amp, i'll then work on the false floor and get everything all nice and neat, then i'll work on the ported box. In the mean time, i'll do some more sound deadening and learn to make my own rca. I tried a few but keep melting the the rca ends. My iron was obviously too hot. 
My 3 year old daughter will start going to school for 3-4 hours beginning in January, so i'll have this time to work on my system. 
I really like those 2 amps you have (JL HD 600/4 - JL HD 750/1) These were out of my budget, I wish i had waited a little and went with the JL. Then i wouldn't have had to upgrade for quite some time. But for now these JBL's are doing a great job.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Be prepared to get an email from them to tell you, you need to pay for shipping back to you, they will not cover any shipping after 60 days.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

It cost $11 to ship it to them, so I'm assuming it will be about the same to ship back. Thanks for the heads-up.


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## Big_Valven (Aug 20, 2008)

Looking great. Nice car. Regarding your circuit breaker, I agree that I'd rather use a switch than get the spark. Lots of fun when you're connecting 4,000w mono amplifiers with twin 0 gauge inputs, the spark can take chunks out of the terminals. I now have a small tool with probes connected to a 22 watt light bulb. I connect the system through this first, the light glows and dims out when the capacitors are charged. Then no spark when you connect it up properly.

If you want the convenience of a switch, a battery isolator switch is the best bet. Something like below. I really loathe CBs for circuits above ~40 amps as they invariably cause more issues than they solve. Voltage drop, heat sensitivity, false triggering, etc.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I like the switch idea. Would this be installed before or after the fuse by the battery?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> It cost $11 to ship it to them, so I'm assuming it will be about the same to ship back. Thanks for the heads-up.


Mine was under 9 the first ticket I bought from them, the second one they jacked it up to almost 18. 

Expect your second one to be like $15 or more.








Big_Valven said:


> Looking great. Nice car. Regarding your circuit breaker, I agree that I'd rather use a switch than get the spark. Lots of fun when you're connecting 4,000w mono amplifiers with twin 0 gauge inputs, the spark can take chunks out of the terminals. I now have a small tool with probes connected to a 22 watt light bulb. I connect the system through this first, the light glows and dims out when the capacitors are charged. Then no spark when you connect it up properly.
> 
> If you want the convenience of a switch, a battery isolator switch is the best bet. Something like below. I really loathe CBs for circuits above ~40 amps as they invariably cause more issues than they solve. Voltage drop, heat sensitivity, false triggering, etc.




Thanks for sharing that, many here just disconnect the battery although I mentioned it, I was surprised nobody really complained about the spark, very interesting approach you have going with the light bulb.

I would let the lead terminal and factory terminals connectors take the shock maybe they will not be damaged as much as the, shinny and pretty terminals. But again, I loose my radio stations and audio settings on my HU so will continue to disconnect the amplifiers ground, then the inline fuse and the follow the same order making the ground last when connecting it again.

I was thinking 150 to 200 amps CB again just as a switch keeping the in line fuses for protection.

My GND Dist block uses 1 gauge terminal, that is the first thing I disconnect, I just need to get a more flexible cable to make the process easy if I continue doing it this way. When I connect the amps ground since my dist gnd block has 1gauge hole and my wire is 4g, the dist blocks takes the heat inside the hole, no big deal. And it is easy to not miss the hole either,  It is just a very uncomfortable process to go through. 

I will look into this option, to learn more, that switch saves quite a bit of time.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Just curious, i'm getting everything ready to do a 3 way and was wondering if this speaker wire for home instillation is recommended for auto instillation? I like this because of the price and because my midrange and tweeter will be next to each othet.

100ft 16AWG CL2 Rated 4-Conductor Oxygen-Free Pure Bare Copper Speaker Wire Cable (For In-Wall Installation) - Monoprice.com

Or should i just buy some regular 16 gauge OFC from monoprice?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I guess it depends on how bulky the jacket is and if you will not have issues running it, it is easier to run a single cable instead of 2 cables, at the same time even if the mids are within 5" or less from the tweeters, you will have to cut jacket and two conductors will have to be shorter before they split before you connect them.

I like a jacket over the 2 conductors cause it gives an extra protection, I reviewed a Fierce Metra wire in the review section sold at best buy, it has a gray smooth jacket over the ash and silver conductors and it matches with anything if any wire needs to be exposed, unlike the bright blue popular wires seen most of the time. On ebay I picked up two 20ft rolls of 12g for under $5.00 each, but you want want to look for 16 g even at that price range is a good non flashy wire with a nice color jacket that blends well in any interior when needed. 

But you simply can't go wrong with monoprice copper wire and pricing either, and it's nice to have different colors to know polarity and where they belong too. And that 4 conductor cable may be less bulky than the 2 regular 16g conductor wire they offer, look at they full diameter spec if they have it or call them.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Got back my emplacement amp from sonic. Hook it up and did a quick calibration with the MS-8, and i'm in sweet music ecstasy again. I'm very happy. 
I calibrate with ms-8 volume at 50, mid-bass volume at 60, tweeter volume at 55 and sub volume at 60. Gains on all the MS amps were all the way down. After calibration I raised mid-bass amp volume to 75 and increase gain a little. Tweeter amp gain stayed all the way down but increase volume to 68. Sub amp volume was increased to 75 and gain was also increased. MS-8 volume was increased to 6. 
Music sounds really good to my satisfaction. I would like a little more volume, but i'll be able to get there with a few more calibrations. 
The bass is the best I ever had. I honestly can not tell where the sub is located. This just happen this way, I did not intended to have this outcome, but its great. The only thing that takes away from the bass is that the back of my seat vibrates, and once you feel the vibration, it make it seems that the bass is coming from the rear. But if I sit without my back touching the seat, it just feels amazing.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Sounds good man, great.

Ever since I hooked up my MS amp to my sub sitting on the the corner on the rear right even without TA with an old HU, all my bass was always in the front and now that I TA mids and sub it is even better. 

I am curious to know how much was the total of your shipping tickets to get a replacement. I got mine over a week a ago and still need to install it.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

$14.xx I had to pay for the return shipping.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I did a search, but couldnt find it. I just have to search some more but taught I would asked.
I want to start fiber glassing my tweeter and mid-range (Scanspeak discovery 2") I never did any glassing before. There was thread about the list of materials/supplies needed, but i couldn't find it. 
Can someone give me a list of materials/supplies to buy please. I did body work (prep cars to be painted for 2 years back in the early 90s) I don't think I will find this difficult.


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## jpf150 (May 22, 2013)

SQLnovice said:


> I did a search, but couldnt find it. I just have to search some more but taught I would asked.
> I want to start fiber glassing my tweeter and mid-range (Scanspeak discovery 2") I never did any glassing before. There was thread about the list of materials/supplies needed, but i couldn't find it.
> Can someone give me a list of materials/supplies to buy please. I did body work (prep cars to be painted for 2 years back in the early 90s) I don't think I will find this difficult.


Off the top of my head...
Painters tape
Trash bags(and/or a roll of plastic)
Respirator(Don't cheap out on this, the fumes seriously suck)
Nitrile gloves(wear 2 pairs, makes it easy if the top pair gets to sticky)
A release agent for the mold
Mixing containers
paint stirring sticks
paint brushes
roller(get air bubbles out)
clothes you could care less about(make sure to wear at least a long sleeve shirt)

If I think of more I'll add to it


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

This is the one I followed:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ers/6125-another-fiberglass-box-tutorial.html

I had to double the cost, and probably spent some 60 hours on it (didn't fit the first time - someone else told me to 'glass it outside the car. Don't!) But other than that, it was pretty much spot on.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Jp & tj. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll start buying stuff soon. My scan discovery 2" mid will be delivered Wednesday. I've been told these can be used without tweeters. I'll experiment and see.


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## jpf150 (May 22, 2013)

^No problem man. Lowes or Home depot will have most of the stuff you need. And I'm pretty sure I used pam(yes the stuff you spray on pans lol) for the release agent.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...discovery-r2604/8320-1-tweeter-ring-radiator/
OR
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ers/vifa-xt25tg30-04-1-ring-radiator-tweeter/
Scan $50.20
Vifa $33.90 
I wanted to try one of these but don't know which? Are they the exact tweeter?


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

I was gonna say "No Way Jose'" but then it says at the bottom of the Scan part "This tweeter is the Scan-Speak Danish made version of the VIfa XT25TG30-04 tweeter."

But the Vifa's say DC Resistance is 3.0 Ohms; Scan's say 2.9. Vifa resonant freq at 436 Hz; Scan at 500. So they're probably tuned a little differently. 

Oddly, it shows a picture of the XT25GT60 on the bottom of the scan sheet.

Anyway, I have no direct experience with either of them, but had a set of Vifa tweeters in a monitor with Scan mids and LOVED them.

Either way, they look pretty awesome if you can mount that big ole flange so the drivers are on-axis. I'd go with the Scan's because it'll match the 5F's and they're still a good value at that price. But I'm sure a LOT of people would tell me I'm throwing my money away... Was going to say save a buck on the Vifa on PE, but they seem to be out.


Oh, and Lowes or HD will have most of what you need for 'glassing, but the Bondo resin contains wax. If you lay it up in stages, you've got to sand in between. If you do it all at once you should be fine. It also sets pretty quick. I had much better luck with the mid-range stuff from TAP (walking distance from my house) but if I had it to do again I'd get the good stuff from U.S. Composites.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Tj, thanks. I most likely will get the Scan to match my mids.


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## jpf150 (May 22, 2013)

^I don't have experience with the scan, but I am running the vifa's in my truck right now. They sound amazing to me, and from what I have read are basically the same as the scans..But if I was you, I would brand match just 'cus. Also x2 for US composites. They are great to talk to when ordering and ship pretty quickly.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

jpf150 said:


> ^I don't have experience with the scan, but I am running the vifa's in my truck right now. They sound amazing to me, and from what I have read are basically the same as the scans..But if I was you, I would brand match just 'cus. Also x2 for US composites. They are great to talk to when ordering and ship pretty quickly.


 thanks, just curious. You have a 2 or 3 way and what's your crossover points for the vifa.


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## jpf150 (May 22, 2013)

Only a 2 way with RS180s. I think they're at 1800 24db LR right now.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Vifa was purchased by Tymphany and is now manufactured in China. ScanSpeak is back in Denmark and still manufactured there. So essentially the same tweeter, 1 made in China and $17 cheaper, the other made in Denmark. 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209336


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> Vifa was purchased by Tymphany and is now manufactured in China. ScanSpeak is back in Denmark and still manufactured there. So essentially the same tweeter, 1 made in China and $17 cheaper, the other made in Denmark.
> 
> Vifa drivers, still made in Denmark? - diyAudio


Thanks, companies are getting bought/sold like hookers on a busy street. Trying to figured out some of these corporations is like trying to find out who's the pimp.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I found the perfect spot for the ms8 display. I always wondered what this spot was ment for in the scion xb.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

How nice that they made that spot just for you!
Looks good.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I made an impulse buy yesterday. I hope this comes in handy for car audio.


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

Oh it will! but also take a look at Dremel's Trio product - recommended.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

SQLnovice said:


> I made an impulse buy yesterday. I hope this comes in handy for car audio.


I think I got the next step up from that kit, couple extra dodads I haven't found the need to use yet. It comes in very handy! I've used it on a majority of the things I made for my build in one way or another.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Yea, I got it hoping it will help with my tweeter mount. It might work to cut small tweeter rings. I purchased my black and decker router along with the jasper jig and the jig is not compatible with the BD 250 router.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I got several of these bits and they work great on many things I worked on.

Dremel multipurpose cutting bit
Shop Dremel Multipurpose Cutting Bit at Lowes.com


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

bigbubba said:


> I got several of these bits and they work great on many things I worked on.
> 
> Dremel multipurpose cutting bit
> Shop Dremel Multipurpose Cutting Bit at Lowes.com


Tks I'm going to pickup a few of those tomorrow.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Little progress towards my 3 way.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Are those the 5F? Wow, a lot smaller than I expected. Can't wait to hear your impressions of those.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Yea they are small. I have to ordered some speaker wires and I'll get them installed hopefully this weekend. I'll let you know.
On a side note, I reverse the phase on my sub last night, and wow. All my bass is now up front. I taught it was up front before, but it just sound much better. Has a nice punch, but just a little less volume. This wasn't planned, but its nice.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

It's interesting how much phase can affect sub sound. I listened to mine one way for a while and then reversed it and it was like a new sub. Crazy. Had to re tune and everything but sounded way better.

Seriously, those 5Fs have me thinking...


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> It's interesting how much phase can affect sub sound. I listened to mine one way for a while and then reversed it and it was like a new sub. Crazy. Had to re tune and everything but sounded way better.
> 
> Seriously, those 5Fs have me thinking...


Hey, just a one time offer. You'v given me some good advice. If you want I can mail these to you to try and you can do a review on them. Totally up to you. The only thing you'll have to cover the shipping once you are done to ship them back to me. Let me know, no problem if the answer is no.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Sent you a PM.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Advice on crossover points for my 3 way. 
I'm adding the scan 5F (Not the 10F) 2 inch mids to my silver flute and seas tweets and i'm looking for recommendations of where to cross them. See signature for more info.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

As a starting point, I'd probably try ~ 450Hz and 4K and see how I like it - but other than considering those for my own system, I have no experience with anything other than the Silver Flutes.
5F response is modeled flat all the way down to about 200, but I'd start getting concerned about power handling, and overall power response, with a speaker that small running down there.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I'd start higher and then go lower until you hit the limit. It's only a 2in so no matter what the ratings are, it will have physical limitations that it can't overcome. 
I'd probably start at 1k and then work my way down. Like Tom, I'd be concerned about the power handling if you HP too low.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

@tjswarbrick--Thanks for the info. I just saw your build log, nice work. I like that you made your own RCA's. I purchased everything to make my own, but I keep melting the the RCA's. I'll give it a shot again this weekend. 

@Teldzc1--I'll start at 1k as you recommended and go from there. I'll keep you posted once i'm done. I'll get them installed this weekend and give it a shot. I cant wait.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

SQLnovice said:


> @tjswarbrick--Thanks for the info. I just saw your build log, nice work. I like that you made your own RCA's. I purchased everything to make my own, but I keep melting the the RCA's. I'll give it a shot again this weekend.
> .


Thanks! Did I mention that I had to do most of those connections twice? I'm kind of a klutz and I have a fat, loose, cold, super-cheapie soldering iron. I'd definitely spring for a quality unit if I were to try it again.

I want to hear how you like those 5F's. I've had this dream of doing an MTM arrangement with 4 of 'em, bust most folks around here think it would be more trouble than it's worth and recommend just getting a pair.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I'll be able to save/shape it with bondo. 
Man this stuff is toxic on the lungs and eye. I have to get a better respiratory and goggles for next time. Not the $7.00 mask I got 
Disclaimer : this is not to be used as a guide or inspiration, for I know not of what I'm doing.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Interested to hear your thoughts on the Scan 5Fs once you have them up and running. They have been a curiosity of mine as well.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Just a quick test fit and I'm I'm surprised how easy this was. It's not exactly symmetrical but will work for now.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

rton20s said:


> Interested to hear your thoughts on the Scan 5Fs once you have them up and running. They have been a curiosity of mine as well.


I definitely will. I'll be running these and the silver flute without a tweeter until Mark's tweets get here.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Kind of crazy just how small they are. If they could actually perform down to ~200 Hz, that would be incredible. If I were to incorporate them in my own install it would be in the stock dash location on my '04 xB firing up into the windshield. 

Once you have them up and playing, I'd like to get your thoughts on how they perform on vs off axis.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Yes, if they play down to 200, that would be great, because I have a pair of exodus anarchy to replace the silver flute.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

How many speaker wire joins are considered too many? 
I running all new speaker wires. Monoprice OFC 16 gauge to tweeters and mids and 12 gauge to midbass. I was wondering joins are considered too much. I plan on having those deans quick connection about 1 feet from all the speakers/tweeters for quick disconnect. Also, I'll have one of those quick disconnect strip somewhere in the trunk. This will be 2 places on each speaker wire. Assuming they are crimped soldered properly; are two joins considered too many?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

That's fine.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I assume you will solder the wire to the speaker terminals and put heat shrink on them, those xt60 connectors don't loose meaningful signal or increase significant resistance.

Some tweeters already come with soldered wire on the terminals others may not and it may be hard or risky to solder wire to them, those are not a concern since they are not exposed to water or much moisture, and any small insulated terminal is ok, the more critical ones are the ones on the doors since they will be splashed with water, a bare spade connector is better than an insulated one with huge gaps where water can rest and cause connection and corrosion issues unless you heat shrink the gap between the insulation and the spade connector insulation. I simply would avoid those light blue home depot insulated terminals on door speakers and use a bare non isulated terminals and heat shrink them if i have ro use those, if not I would Solder the pig tails on the terminals and heat shrink them if you plan to use a connector within inches from the speaker as many members do it here.

Hot glue may work on those terminals also instead of heat shrink black would be better like some manufacturers use  for a more professional look


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Not bad for a first-timer.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Pic's not working. Try posting another, want to see this.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)




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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> Pic's not working. Try posting another, want to see this.


Should work now.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Looks sweet! Want to hear how they sound installed.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I can't wait to finish up my install. I ordered the vifa ne 3/4 inch silk done tweeter to hold me over until Mark's tweeter gets here.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Hey SQL, nice build so far! Did you get the pillars in & hear it with no tweets and couldn't stand it? Or don't wanna retune for no tweets & retune again when the KAs show up?
And thanks for advice on the amps - I think I'll go with them also.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

SO20thCentury said:


> Hey SQL, nice build so far! Did you get the pillars in & hear it with no tweets and couldn't stand it? Or don't wanna retune for no tweets & retune again when the KAs show up?
> And thanks for advice on the amps - I think I'll go with them also.


I should have them in by next weekend. I have to run speaker wires for these mids, relocate my amps under the front seats, or build a false floor. 
I don't have the "technical know how" to make these mids work without tweeters.
I did a like 2 tune with the ms8, and did't want to try anymore. I'll start tuning all over again once get everything install.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I have to replace those silver screws with some black ones.


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## Maximilliano (Aug 14, 2011)

sub'ed


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Car audio gear $$$. Dad and daughter installation.? Priceless.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Great job! How's the tune coming along?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> Great job! How's the tune coming along?


Did my first tune last night. I have the 5F crossed at 400 and 4k. Just from the first tune, its now the best sounding system I'v had. However, there are lots of room for improvement. I can see myself being satisfied with this for a long time. The top end is very detailed. I can now hear more separation with all the instruments. Guitar strums are very lifelike. (I can't describe more, because I don't know the correct terminology to explain what i'm hearing. My apologies)


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Nice to see the progress. The pillars look good.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

rton20s said:


> Nice to see the progress. The pillars look good.


Thanks. It's a learning experience. I'll be enjoying this for a long time while I clean up and improve my installation techniques.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

How's the aiming on the 5F's? Kind of looks like they're aimed a little downward.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Yea, they are pointing down. For some reason, I taught it would be pointing eye level. But i'll leave it as is for now and work on my false floor in the hatch so I can clean up the spaghetti mess I have back there. Once I finish up that, I'll do over the apillar and get them pointing on axis. I'll also get the tweeters pointing towards the dome lite area instead of at each other. Still a lot more work as far as improving on the installation which will improve the sound tremendously.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Can't seem to load the calibration file for my imm-6 onto the app Audio tool. I'm not tech savvy. Anyone using this wit an android phone? I'm using my note-3.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

yeah. I think you have to rename the file's extension to something else (easier while the file is still on your PC). Then drop it into your phone in the correct subdirectory as the app.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Here is the directions from Dayton.
"AudioTool by Bofinit Corporation

AudioTool supports loading a calibration file for the Dayton Audio iMM-6 microphone. These files have names like "99-0101.txt" when downloaded from from above. For use in AudioTool, you will simply need to rename the file so that it has the .cal file type (e.g. "99-0101.cal") and save it in the AudioTool directory on your Android phone. Then, in AudioTool, select the "Load Cal" option from the Menu, and choose the Dayton file from the list. The calibration data will be loaded, power summed to the 1/3 octave bins used by AudioTool, and saved in your Preferences - there is no further need to load the file whenever you start AudioTool, unless you change the calibration method or alter the calibration values manually."

I download the .txt, changed it to .cal on my computer. I then connect my note3 to my computer and copy the file into the Audio Tool directory on my phone. 
Now when I open the Audio Tool app on my phone, I don't see a "Load Cal" button or option.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Okay I got it. Once the app is open, I hit the "store" button, enter the file name. Then I hit the "cal" button and the file was there, I tap it and it's done. And that's it, I think.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

it's hidden... try pressing the menu/settings button on the bottom left first. Then we can find the Load Cal button is on the middle-right of this new screen.

edit: ok looks like you found it!


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

diy.phil said:


> it's hidden... try pressing the menu/settings button on the bottom left first. Then we can find the Load Cal button is on the middle-right of this new screen.
> 
> edit: ok looks like you found it!


Thanks for your assistance.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Tuning CD?
I just purchased a JL HD 750/1 amp and i'm about to purchase the CleanSweep CD to set my gain. Before I make the purchase off the JL website, I was wondering if there is another CD out there that anyone would recommend instead of the CleanSweep one. 
I have a very old laptop and my CD burner died. Also, i'm open if someone wants to make me a Tuning CD for a paypal fee.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Go here: Realm of Excursion

Download whatever test tone, pink noise, white noise you need. Put on your phone or MP3 player. No noise needed. I don't know what's on JL's CD but I'd bet what's available on this site is what you'll end up finding on the JL CD you're talking about.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Wow.
Thanks a bunch sirbOOm.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Now how come a new sub amp?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

SO20thCentury said:


> Now how come a new sub amp?


First reason is that I don't know much of what i'm doing. 

I've been having some issues with tuning the MS-8 and the MS-amps. I know a few people that had similar issues (cannot get enough volume) and once they switch out their amps, they were able to get to the level of volume they wanted.

I was getting a little frustrated and got a used JL HD 750/1 for a decent price and decided to give it a shot. 
I did 2 tuning session the past few days and I was blown away at the SQ and the level of volume I was able to achieve. I'm extremely extremely happy with the SQL of my install now. However, The 750/1 was already on her way to me. 

I have a sickness, I have to have a matching set of amps. It makes the SQ sounds better just knowing this. (hehe)

On the other hand, my nephew will be 18 soon and I want to surprise him with a complete stereo upgrade once he gets his car. So i'm buying equipment that I would like and with the intention of passing it on to him as well. 

A buddy on here will be selling me his HD 600/4 and i'll switch out the JBL's to see if I can notice any difference. 

I just have to say, all the tuning issues I had in the past, it wasn't the equipment, it was tuning errors on my part.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

With all the debate going on about high end amp and sq, it would be interesting to see if I notice a different. With the different in price around $500, I don't know if that qualify as high end. 
The comparison is not a major reason why I'm experimenting with the JL. One of the main reason is I can stack 3 of these under my passenger front seat and my processor under the driver's seat. 
ps." I wasn't trying to be rude when I said I don't know much of what I'm doing " in the previous post, I just being honest and was trying to be funny.


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## carztoon1 (Jan 31, 2014)

SQL novice i'm from Miami, would love to get some seat time. When ever you have time.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

carztoon1 said:


> SQL novice i'm from Miami, would love to get some seat time. When ever you have time.


No problem. My wife is off all next week. Just let me know. I live by dadeland mall area. I'll pm you my number and we'll arrange something.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

The sickness! I gotta get out of here cuz I'm definitely coming down with summa this too! 
Be interesting to hear w different amps, and stacking 3 under seat! One JL might fit under my seats, one MS-A will fit but not allow the seat to move back.
As far as not knowing anything, when it comes to SQ I feel like I'm whacking my way around here with a white cane hoping the lights will come on


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

The xB has lots of room under the 2 front seat. I was actually considering doing 2 of the SI shallow sub at one point. One under each seat. However, I like my music a little bass heavy so I opted for the JBL 12GTI and I'm loving the bass out of this sub.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Well you definitely have me eating my heart out with all that room & excellent subbage. Especially cuz I got no music at all for now.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

If you love car audio, and need to find out why some amps are popular and cost more, why not. Worse case you may not notice a significant difference or no difference at all, but at least you know the built and reliability quality. I could have gotten an alpine pvx9 cheaper than the price combined of the 2 ms amps, new and with a 2 year warr for only $7.00 but I thought amps should not cost that much knowing this is a $600 amp and now I would not be hesitating about the SI MKIV or have the room issues I may face with a third amp.

One thing is when we pay more, in our minds as humans think or want to think it's worth the price and will sound better, it's human nature and if you got good and young ears you will find out, in my case, well I may not tell the difference.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Amp rack and sub is out. Wheeling them to storage. No music until next year. If all goes well I should finish sooner.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Cannot beat pizza for lunch.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Processor and amps will be on top of this. the cover will be 2.5 inches above this. I want to keep my spare tire so I can't go lower. 
Feel free to shoot me ideas because I never did this before.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

How important it is to keep the speaker wires/rca's separated from the power/ground wires? Also how much space in between should I have if running them side by side?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> How important it is to keep the speaker wires/rca's separated from the power/ground wires? Also how much space in between should I have if running them side by side?


NICE RACK! :thumbsup:

Signal wires go together, (RCA's speaker wires) no issues any channels mixed.

The only wires that can present a issue are large power amplifier's wires, close to speaker wires or RCA's. 

Many twisted pair designs reject interference if closed to a power wire. If you have to run them together, run them, many have reported not having issues, remote wires present no issues. I would use either a split loom on the Power wire or keep them about an inch away if you can, if not, its OK, you will find out if your RCA's have good shield and noise rejection


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks Alrojoca, I didn't know that an inch is sufficient. This is great news.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Sure! don't stress over that, if your RCA's are good, you will have no issues.
You are gonna have to change your avatar pic, to JL, 
You need a JL sub now 

Let us know if you hear any differences compared to the JBL amps


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Let us know you made a mistake and the JBLs were better. Since you convinced me they were great and then jumped ship when I got some! :uhoh:


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

SO20thCentury said:


> Let us know you made a mistake and the JBLs were better. Since you convinced me they were great and then jumped ship when I got some! :uhoh:


I still have the JBL's. I got these at a great price and decided to give them a shot and see if there will be a difference. A lot of members on here give the MS series amps high ratings. 
How you like yours so far?


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Glad I found your build. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the JL compared to the JBL.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

At least the set up of the MS-8 DSP will be way easier with those JL amps.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Golden Ear said:


> Glad I found your build. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the JL compared to the JBL.


I will definitely keep you guys posted on the difference in the amps from a noob pov.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I have seen these terminal circuit blocks used by many, placed near the amplifiers or amp rack.

for speaker wires? like a foot or two from the amp to the block then to the speakers. What is the purpose of it? protection? organization? looks? 


I plan to use one as a distribution point for wires for the front components, near one of the kick panels or behind the glove box.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Usually the small terminal blocks are for "quick disconnect" purpose, for example a rack/assembly that we want to disconnect and remove from the vehicle (without cutting any wires). Less small terminal blocks the better


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks! it's a shame I could not think of that one :surprised:


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Tks, I'll order some small ones from PE.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Anyone know what these clips are called?it's for a 2011 scion xb, a few are broken and I'd like to replace if possible.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

That looks kinda dealer-onlyish. Auto parts stores might have something like those for either the tube or wires but I bet not both. In Reno is R&E fastener and they do have a lot of OEM things like that Distributor of Industrial Fasteners, Tooling, Abrasives and Electrical Products - R & E Fasteners, Inc.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

My wife suggested to me today that I should trade in my scion xb for a bigger SUV. Something that is automatic, softer ride, more quiet, and a little more room. After 22 years I've learned that a suggestion or request is the same as an order. I'll continue my build until I get the final request.


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## soundqdoug (Jul 1, 2008)

I dig it. Currently using the ms amps in my work truck, and they do a great job!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

SQLnovice said:


> My wife suggested to me today that I should trade in my scion xb for a bigger SUV. Something that is automatic, softer ride, more quiet, and a little more room. After 22 years I've learned that a suggestion or request is the same as an order. I'll continue my build until I get the final request.


These kinds of requests always seem to come in the middle of an extended project. Make sure you get to hear the results before it goes! 


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I removed my door card to do some deadening and cut a bigger speaker hole for the JL ZR800 and found this.








The NVX deadner all melted and slid downwards about 2 inches. Every one of them slid down about 2 inches.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Not good. I'm guessing this was due to heat over the summer? It might be worth sharing in TooStubborn2Fail's CLD testing thread.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

rton20s said:


> Not good. I'm guessing this was due to heat over the summer? It might be worth sharing in TooStubborn2Fail's CLD testing thread.


Not bashing the company. But this must be some really poor quality stuff, because 95% of the time when my car is parked it's under covered parking. I have about 30 sq ft of this stuff now I have to figure out which brand to used for the outer door skin. 
I decided to hold off on installing the Zr800 and replace my silver flute with a pair of anarchy. Since I only have to swap them out and not having to make a new speaker adapter.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Man that sucks. For what it's worth I used some B Stock Second Skin Damplifier Pro and it's held up well. 

How are the Anarchy's so far? Notice a difference from the Silver Flutes? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> Man that sucks. For what it's worth I used some B Stock Second Skin Damplifier Pro and it's held up well.
> 
> How are the Anarchy's so far? Notice a difference from the Silver Flutes?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


I didn't power them up yet. I'm waiting on some RCA Y-adapters to be delivered tomorrow. I'll finish up this weekend.
My daughter starts pre-k tomorrow. So I'll be focusing on her adjusting to her new schedule all this week. 
I don't want to drop her off and leave her there for 4 hrs (cold turkey) even though turkey is probably the way to go. So I'll be hanging out at the parent's lounge/waiting room just in case if she needs me. It's going to be the first time she's away from me or my wife so all three of us are experiencing separation anxiety. I think my wife and I are experiencing the most lol. My daughter is probably excited to be interacting with lots of other kids her own age. I know that's not car audio stuff so enough of that.
I'll look into Second Skin Damplifier Pro. I will just need about 12 square feet for the outer door skin. The ones on the inner door skin are okay. I guess the inner door skin is not affected by the heat which is great.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Knu Konceptz Kno Knoise Kolossus has held up well for me in the Central California heat. It also performed well in the CLD testing that TooStubborn2Fail performed. I'd also recommend Sound Deadener Showdown tiles without hesitation.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I just realized I have a box of stinger road kill. I think it's 20 square feet. The hardest part now is getting the NVX CLD cleaned out really well so I can apply the stinger.


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## ZombieHunter85 (Oct 30, 2012)

Anybody know a good way to remove deadener? ^^


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Charcoal lighter fluid worked very well for me, when that crap got on my leather seats.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks, I'll give this a try.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

TooStubborn2Fail posted that he had the best luck with using mineral spirits followed by denatured alcohol. With as many brands as he has had to apply and remove, I would trust his advice.  

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2011168-post3.html



TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> You'll have to peel it off manually. After that, use mineral spirits, followed by denatured alchohol. I've had good luck with this set up on every brand I've tested so far.
> 
> 
> I disagree that putting new over the old is a good idea, especially if the idea is to try a better product. The new product won't work any better than the old product if applied over it, since the new product will be damping the constraining layer of the first product.


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## abusiveDAD (Jan 7, 2009)

Nice;


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all the tips. My knuckles are already afraid.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Any news? Or still hanging out @ preschool? Or removing NVX crap? Or shopping for SUVs?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Worked out my budget for the next 3 years and a new used SUV is not within our financial reach. So that's it for that. 
My daughter got sick with the flu and cold by the end of the first week of school. Then my wife and now its my turn. So i didn't do anything yet. I'm recovering form the flu and getting back a little side effects of some medications i'm on, mainly dizziness. 
I had a minor issue with my JL 750/1 amp. ntimd8n-k5--is an excellent seller. A really nice guy to deal with. I can't enough of this member, and I hope to do more business with him in the future. 
I'll take it easy for the next 2 weeks or so, then start taking apart the doors to remove the nvx deadner and replace it with stinger roadkill.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Resonance..........
I've been listening to my system for the past few days without the sub because of an amp issue. The anarchy mids that are temporary installed are a beast. I actually have to listen at a very low volume because of what I think is resonance. It's actually very uncomfortable to listen to at my normal volume of 20. I have to properly deaden and seal my door along with the door card. I have a feeling after this is done, the anarchy mids will sound insanely good. 
My question is, can resonance be this bad?


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Yes.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Yep. Usually is worse as the mid plays lower. Where do you have the HP set? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

From everything I read regarding the anarchy(s) I decide to cross them at 60 and 400. I'll try crossing them at 300 if the 5F can handle that low on my next tune and once I get my new sub amp installed. 
I have all my dream equipment (I dream within my budget) which was the easy part. I now just have to focus on the install to pull it all together and get the results i'm looking for. It will be an exciting year installation wise. I'm looking forward to it, since i'll be keeping the scion for a while, it's time to get creative.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Help selecting a tweeter.
I'm ready to resume my build after some time off.
I need some suggestions on a pair of tweeters to pair with my Eton Symphony 3" Mid-range 3-400/A8/25 MG
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...phony-3-midrange-3-401/a8/25-mg-matched-pair/
I plan on crossing the mid somewhere around 300hz to around 4000-4400 range. The tweeter will then pick up from around 4000 up. 

This is what i'm looking at as of now.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...sb29rdcn-c000-4-neo-magnet-ring-dome-tweeter/

Budget is between $100-$200 but I will not mind spending a little more also if it will make a difference. I also will not mind spending less than $100.
I have 2 JL HD 600/4 amps. So I'm debating running the tweets off the MS-8 or I can feed them 150 watts from the JL. 
Thanks in advance and I don't mind trying some of the not so popular brand.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Those SB tweets are nice. If you can fit them these are pretty awesome:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...04/6020-10-1-tweeter-soft-dome-ring-radiator/

If you can't fit them try these:
The Madisound Speaker Store


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I will sell you an entire Alpine Type X component set with everything except some of the tweeter mounting bits (used for 4 months). It has the ring radiator tweeter that is highly regarded and arguably a Hybrid copy. $150 shipped. Then you can have some rear fill midranges and fancy crossovers for paperweights.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Open see more choices and changes that take place faster than I can keep up with


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Tough choice between the SB and the Scan. Any size limitations? I think the SB are a little bigger. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I'm not too concerned about the size. I have a decent size sale panel to which I can glass something the size of the SB. I know everyone loves the scans. But since I'll be crossing them a little on the high side I don't know if I should spend that much on tweets. Maybe this is just a noob way of thinking. But I'll see. I'm also able to get a pair of HAT L1V2 for a decent price. Worst case scenario, I'll just wait until mark's tweeter gets here, install that and then go from there. Choices choices, I feel like my wife in a shoe store.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for all the recommendations. I ended up getting a pair of HAT L1V1. I'll give this a shot and see what happens.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Did you get your issue resolved with the JL amps?
Your sig isn't keeping up w your build:laugh:


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

SO20thCentury said:


> Did you get your issue resolved with the JL amps?
> Your sig isn't keeping up w your build:laugh:


I got it resolved. The seller was a super nice guy to deal with (ntimd8n-k5). I cannot say enough of how great it was dealing with him. I have a new sig that was done by (Gregest22). I'm waiting to get everything install before I put it up. 
I'm suffering from a case of noobitis. I keep changing my mind and wanting to buy a few different equipment. Now I know how my wife feels in a shoe store. I'm now settle on what I will do (I think). So hopefully I can get all the install button up by the ending of next month so I can start playing around with the tuning aspect of everything.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I think this is how it's done. 















Moving over to the driver's door now.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice job

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks. I know some must be wondering why are they no deadening around the mid-bass. I have some JL ZR800 to install in a few weeks, so I have some cutting to do.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Your build is going to be pretty sweet. I know you have the HAT tweeters, but I say hold out for the KSXBLTWT. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> You're build is going to be pretty sweet. I know you have the HAT tweeters, but I say hold out for the KSXBLTWT.


I'm glad you mention that. I'll leave my sail for last, that way once Mark's tweeter gets here I'll install that instead. Thanks for the links on the Helix DSP. I got lots of reading to do.


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## usmanx (Feb 28, 2015)

tjswarbrick said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> I'm hoping to hear some competition systems next month - I'm afraid it'll put me in my place, but hopefully I'll learn a thing or two as well.
> 
> Where do you have the Silver Flutes crossed? How do you like them?


I really like them


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

OOooo! Got a lot going in that slow-cooker! Gonna be delicious


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Got this in the mail today. Never used one or an RTA before. I'll be replacing my MS-8 with a Helix DSP over the next week. I have zero experience with any of this so feel free to post links or tips that will help make things easier. Thanks


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Bringin out the big guns!
...uh, what is that (for those of us that really are sql novices)?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

It's the magic wand. lol.

Man, every tweeter and mid should come with a little plastic ring to use as a template. I spend about an hour today trying to get a pair of rings for my Eaton mid and I still didn't get it done. I'll give it a shot again tomorrow. The job is 10 times harder and time consuming when you don't have the correct tools.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Spend most of my day doing this. Then when I went to wrap the fleece and staple it, everything fell apart. Will start new tomorrow. Feeling a little frustrated. But one of my favorite quote from 
Bob Marley 
"One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain" 
So I'm listening to some good tunes now to calm my frustration.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

After a few burnt finger tips with hot glue, apillars are finally done.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice work buddy! Are they fired up yet? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

No, i'll hook them up later and used the same crossover points as the 5F and see how they sound. I was going to, but I had a hot plate of curry goat, rice and a nice cold monk-in-da-trunk beer waiting on me inside. Hopefully I can get the Helix DSP up and running by friday.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Love me some curry goat! Is the Indian or Caribbean style? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I'm Indian and I'm from the Caribbean, so it's Indo Caribbean lol. Caribbean style.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I've built my last apillars for this car. Just a few more pics.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

SQLnovice said:


> I've built my last apillars for this car.


That's what they all say...

Those do look great, though. And once the door closes, it appears the tweets and mids will be very close to the same axis. Nice!


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

tjswarbrick said:


> That's what they all say...
> 
> Those do look great, though. And once the door closes, it appears the tweets and mids will be very close to the same axis. Nice!


Rookie mistake. I totally forgot about trying to get the mid and tweets as close as possible. I could have placed the mids a little lower and close to the tweets had I remembered this at the time, shuks. I'm waiting on Mark tweets and once those are delivered I'll redo my sail and try to get it as close as possible to the mids.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Nice pillars!!


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Golden Ear said:


> Nice pillars!!


Thanks, these Eton mids are amazing. I realize hot glue was my friend when it comes to holding the rings and support in place prior to securing the fleece.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Would this make a difference SQ wise or SQL wise.
I'm currently in the process of reconfiguring my equipments. I'll be replacing my MS-8 with a Helix DSP. I have the room and an open spot on my distro block for another amp.
Currently I have 2 JL 600/4. One bridge to the mid-bass and the other running midrange and tweets.
The question is, should I add a JBL MS 1004 (already have this as an extra amp) and bridge it to my tweeters.
So the final amp config will look like this:
JL 600/4 bridge to mid-bass, 300 x 2
JL 600/4 bridge to mid-range, 300 x 2
JBL MS-1004 to tweets, 200 x 2
Is this overkill, or should I just stick with the 2 JL amps for the 3-way front stage?

Of course I will adjust my amp gains accordingly. 

Thanks


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Overkill... JBL amp not needed. Mid and tweeter do not need that kind of power or headroom especially when you're using that JL amp.

You can sell me your JBL MS-1004 for $200, then.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> Overkill... JBL amp not needed. Mid and tweeter do not need that kind of power or headroom especially when you're using that JL amp.
> 
> You can sell me your JBL MS-1004 for $200, then.


Thanks. Glad I asked. Installation will be much easier.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Edited.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, some say never drive the tweeters with the head unit power, I did with a passive and 12 db slope, and still had to reduce the level by 2 points or db based on Alpine's settings. 

I added 100W to each when I got my second amp, with the passive I reduced the level from 80 to 66, and with active crossing now the level is at 54, I'm sure they are not getting 100 watts, probably just over 60W, reduced to prevent fatigue more noticeable running them active even experimenting with different crossing points.

Some people feed their tweeters 150W-250W, overkill and unnecessary


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks Al. I just didn't know if there was anything to be gained from adding the other amp. However, the Eaton mids are very loud and distortion free with the power it's getting from the JL.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Install looks really fantastic!!
As a fellow xB2 owner how did you find the width and depth with the mids mounted in the pillars? Have you installed the ZR8's yet?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

chefhow said:


> Install looks really fantastic!!
> As a fellow xB2 owner how did you find the width and depth with the mids mounted in the pillars? Have you installed the ZR8's yet?


I think the Apillars are very roomy. Even if I had wanted to ount them flat on the pillars facing each other, (kinda like Glen305) I still would have had the room providing i make like a half inch speaker ring. I didn't install the ZR's yet, but I cant wait. I hit a little equipment snag, and that kinda make me not want to work on the xB yet. So I'm taking a little break and i'll start in a few weeks. Another reason for me stalling on the installs, is that I will be switching out the MS-8 for a Helix DSP, and i'm a little concerned about my ability to get it up and running. 
I was thinking the other day, I should just remove the MS-8 and drive around without music, and after a few days, that will motivate me to get back on track. 
Going back to the apillars. I broke the 2 (apillar retention things, the plastic clips that would hold the apillars in place if the airbags were to be activated) So if you will be removing yours, be careful with those. 
Also, a thing you might want to considered. I think the sail panel, where the tweeters are, could be used for mids, and the apillars for tweeters. I think the sails are big enough to be able to glass something like the L3se. If I ever change things up, I will seriously considered putting the mids in the sails.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Thanks for the info.
I have a set of the 5f's, a set of 3" widebanders and a set of 4" mids and I have yet to decide which to put in the pillars. 
I have the XT25RR in the sails currently with a pair of ZR6's


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

The 5F I think is great for what it is, and I don't have any measurements to back up my claim. I'm not there yet knowledge wise to compare drivers, but I will soon.
I had the 5F in for a few months and I really liked it. I then switched to the Eton mids and it was a significant difference to my ears. I think the 5F should be used only if you have a space restriction.
I don't think glassing 4 inch mids on the apillar would be an issue, especially dept wise. Once you cut a hole in the pillars, you can sink it in as much as possible. If you do, make sure you go low enough to clear the white plastic airbag thing that is a little more that half way down the apillar. Also, you cannot go too low, because of the hump on top of the dash in front of the driver's seat. 
Do you have a build log? I did a quick search but didn't find any. I would like to see the tweeter in the sail.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

SQLnovice said:


> The 5F I think is great for what it is, and I don't have any measurements to back up my claim. I'm not there yet knowledge wise to compare drivers, but I will soon.
> I had the 5F in for a few months and I really liked it. I then switched to the Eton mids and it was a significant difference to my ears. I think the 5F should be used only if you have a space restriction.
> I don't think glassing 4 inch mids on the apillar would be an issue, especially dept wise. Once you cut a hole in the pillars, you can sink it in as much as possible. If you do, make sure you go low enough to clear the white plastic airbag thing that is a little more that half way down the apillar. Also, you cannot go too low, because of the hump on top of the dash in front of the driver's seat.
> Do you have a build log? I did a quick search but didn't find any. I would like to see the tweeter in the sail.



I dont have build log for this car, not on here enough and I always forget to take pics when I am working on the car.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Selling my car. Everything back to stock. Decide to give someone a nice little upgrade to the stock system.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I hope the next one is as easier to work on as this one


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Alrojoca said:


> I hope the next one is as easier to work on as this one


I think this is as easy as they come. I really liked this little car, but getting something a little more family friendly. I'm looking into a 2012/2013 acura mdx.
I think audio wise, it will be challenging. Crutchfield has no specs on the mdx yet. So I'll have to take everything apart measure and then buy. I have all the gear, assuming they fit, I will not have to buy anything. But then again, with this hobby, you never know.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Crutchfield doesn't always have the info on vehicles, so I always double check with Metra and Scosche directly. I don't think Scosche has anything on the 12/13 MDX, but the information below is from Metra...

Location	Size	Depth
Front 1	6.5	3.8
Front Tweeters	1	2
Rear 1	6.5	3.8
Rear 2	3.5	3
Subwoofer 1	10	4.5


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

rton20s said:


> Crutchfield doesn't always have the info on vehicles, so I always double check with Metra and Scosche directly. I don't think Scosche has anything on the 12/13 MDX, but the information below is from Metra...
> 
> Location	Size	Depth
> Front 1	6.5	3.8
> ...



Thanks a bunch for this. Hopefully I'll be able to purchase something this weekend. I met a few great cars sales men and women in the past. However, I still dread the process. I was lied to (well, I'm pretty sure I was, but not 100%) at carmax on Saturday. 
So I got my own finance in hand, and i'll try again this weekend. 

After listening to my previous system without the sub for a few weeks. I realized, I may not need as much bass as I normally have on tap. 

I learned quite a bit from this first build, especially when I was removing everything. One thing, I didn't realized is how much weight I added to the xb. This was never a consideration nor was it on my mind. I'll pay close attention to added weight for the next build. 
Well, I don't want to get ahead of myself. But the next one will be more taught out and planned a little better. 


Much thanks to this forum and all that contributed to my assistance. 

By the way, my noob ears are very impressed with the precision power components I installed. I have an alpine ktpu mini amp, I might install it and let it go with the car. It will definitely make those components sound even better. Even tho i'll be traded it in, the new owner will enjoy them.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

That's a nice SUV, Hondas are not hard to work on, maybe similar to accuras, and the 3.8" D in the front Dustin listed is plenty to put a decent driver in the front, that D can be increased by more using a 3/4" ring baffle for even more window clearance


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Man, I went to a dealer and saw an MDX I liked. I agree on their price posted online price and they offer me a little lower than expected price on my trade in, which I also agreed on. However, when the finance manager came and talked to me, I told him I have my own finance and would like a contract with my finance (Capital One). He didn't seems happy and said that he can save me money if I used their finance. I told him it's okay, I would like to use my finance. This was a week ago around closing time. I waited and then the sales man came and told me the Manager left for the day and to come back the following day. I called the following day and left him a message to please prepare me a contract with the capital one loan information and once it's ready to notify me so I can go over the numbers. It's now 8 days and nothing. So i'm going to another dealer today to look at another MDX with 15k miles less for the same price. 
I'm glad i'm not in a rush to buy. However, I'm excited to get a new car (well new to me) to start the audio build and not make the same mistakes I made with my scion xB.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Sorry to hear that.
When I bought my wife's 2013 Pathfinder in January (on a Sunday afternoon) , I used their finance but told them I was going to use my own. They told me a) if I was pre-approved and brought in paperwork they could have processed it for me on my CU's paper and b) since I wasn't pre-approved they gave me a week to refinance before turning everything in.

It did take them an extra week to reupholster the interior, but that was their subcontractor and some communication issues. 

Every car I've bought they offer dirt on trade-in. Like 1/2 what I could sell the car for. A couple times I've taken it anyway, several times I've sold private-party.

Hope you find another one, someplace where they appreciate your business.


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## Beatbox (Jun 7, 2015)

Tag

Wife has a XB 

Cool thread


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Picked up an MDX yesterday. It's a 2012, so i'll decide what i want to do audio wise. I know I want to do a K.I.S.S install with all stock locations and no cutting or modifying any panels. xB is going up for sales on cars dot com in a few days. Asking 12k, but will accept 11k if I have to go down. 

tjswarbrick--I'm looking into that DQ-61. I might pm you for some more info and your personal info. 





tjswarbrick said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> When I bought my wife's 2013 Pathfinder in January (on a Sunday afternoon) , I used their finance but told them I was going to use my own. They told me a) if I was pre-approved and brought in paperwork they could have processed it for me on my CU's paper and b) since I wasn't pre-approved they gave me a week to refinance before turning everything in.
> 
> It did take them an extra week to reupholster the interior, but that was their subcontractor and some communication issues.
> ...


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Congrats! What kind of stock locations does it have?


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

SQLnovice said:


> Picked up an MDX yesterday. It's a 2012, so i'll decide what i want to do audio wise. I know I want to do a K.I.S.S install with all stock locations and no cutting or modifying any panels. xB is going up for sales on cars dot com in a few days. Asking 12k, but will accept 11k if I have to go down.
> 
> tjswarbrick--I'm looking into that DQ-61. I might pm you for some more info and your personal info.


No problem!
I've posted about it a number of times. It's no 6-to-8, but I think it's pretty great for what it is.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

teldzc1 said:


> Congrats! What kind of stock locations does it have?



David, here you go. Specs are in this thread. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...x-base-no-navigation-help-recommendation.html


Thanks


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