# Boat post warning: which speaker components should I install?



## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

I am currently upgrading the audio in a new-to-me older boat and am getting down to the component speakers. The boat is a cruiser (big 34'), not a wakeboard boat with a big tower of ridiculousness.


*The current layout is as follows:*
Head Unit (Alpine double DIN 3DA-W882) down in the cabin 
A pair of $5 radio shack paper cone horrific 6.5" 2-way speakers on either side of the cabin 
A pair of the worst sounding marine speakers in the world in 6.5" on either side of the main outdoor area, either side of the radar tower about 3' up from the deck. 
A pair of pots, one inside, and one outside, that individually control the volume in the cabin and outside so you can effectively turn off the cabin speakers and blast the outside speakers and vice-versa. They are old and crackling, so they'll either be replaced or eliminated. Do they affect SQ substantially?
Both speaker mounting locations are flat and large enough for whatever components I choose. I have stuff leftover from cars and other things over the years and will be installing them. The boat has 4(!) group 31 AGM batteries. 2 of the batteries start the dual 454 big block engines and the other 2 are house batteries to run the fridge, stereo, water pump, etc. I also have a 5kw gas generator integrated into the hull and the engines power/charge when running. Either way, I shouldn't have a problem running the stereo for a few hours on just the house batteries and then switching to generator if needed.


*Planned setup:*

Head unit: keep the Alpine double-din from above. It was fairly high-end back in 2000 and should serve my needs. I'll wire in an input jack through the Ai-net for ipod/mp3. 
Amps: I have an Xtant X604 (75WRMS x4) and an X1001 (1000WRMS x1). They'll be wired in accordingly and mounted inside. I also have a 1F cap that I might put in-line with the X1001, but with the two group 31's, I don't think I'll need it. (right?) 
Subs: 2x JL 13W6V2-D4 either integrated into the rear seat box, ported, facing forward close to the deck, or in a separate ported box firing into the corners. The subs are difficult in open-space type situations. These will be wired together at 1ohm to maximize the amp's output. The X1001 is 1-ohm stable, but still only produces 1000W. 
Components: this is my main question. I need to buy some. I was trying to keep them around $300 (because I need two pair) to keep some decent SQ, but also stay on a budget (I don't need Morel Supremos in there). Here's a list of what I am considering: Morel Tempo 6, Hertz HSK 165, Crescendo Mezzo (?), Alpine SPX-17PRO, others?
For the components, I can go 6-3/4" easily. I can mount pretty much any tweeter size except large horns. There's plenty of room for crossovers too. For the cabin, I'll just have the speaker pair as the subs will only be outside, so I'd like them to have decent response in the lower range. If I get two different sets for inside/outside (a good possibility), I'd rather these be the better SQ as loudness isn't a big requirement. Most of the time spent inside will be when the boat is stopped and docked or on anchor.

For outside, I also have a lot of room to mount the speakers, but for obvious reasons will need them to be capable of slightly more volume. They will be competing with lots of noise, open air, and the subs. These will also be the speakers that will be used the mose while under-way, which means about 30mph. These are mounted in a location that is mostly protected from long exposure to UV and won't get wet, but the slight possibility of a drop of water here and there eliminates any paper cone woofers. The humidity is low and this boat is always covered in a slip in freshwater (no saltwater nastiness to deal with). I'd rather stay away from marine speakers because they mostly sound horrible and look like they belong on a wakeboard boat driven by someone with a mullet.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. I'm somewhat experienced in wiring for cars, but this is both easier and harder to manage. I'm an engineer, so I can figure out most schematics and other things you might post in response. Mainly I'm looking for some recommendations on the components, but anything would be helpful.

Thanks!

The willing patient:


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

No takers on this? I used to do boats like that and will just tell you what I found to work best...you don't have to agree with it. Our systems used mostly at the sandbar in and out of boat, sometimes at speed, usually it was party time. Lot of them didn't run subs due to weight/space/power issues. What worked the best was larger speakers. We used a lot of 6x9 and 7x10. Some people scoff, but there was never any serious SQ listening going on in any of these boats...you get a good brand/level of speaker they will sound acceptable, larger ones put out more sound you really need in open spaces of a boat, you only have to cut one hole that will fit many speakers that way, and lastly there was no point to running expensive SQ speakers there so why bother. You can run whatever, just saying this worked well for open boats. In the cuddy you can use something you would in a car. We often put switches on the remote wires to amps, sometimes another HU in the cuddy since they rarely get used at same time anyway and often no amp in the cuddy either. More speakers tend to work better, quad 7x10 really put out in party mode on 100rms each or better. Most of the subs we did put in were IB, most were more racy style boats with limited room. The sound we went for was like a good bar system and it worked well.

If I did a boat today I would look at 6x9, 8" coax, 7x10, 8x12s. I'd pick a good quality brand like alpine or better. I guess if you have good subs you could run 6.5, we also put 6.5 in the dash for example and larger in back that worked. The larger speakers give free spl, more bass and midbass. If you can put at least one set up higher like the dash or side area, they will travel the highs out of the boat better that way for outside listening. We used car speakers and rarely had any issue. You can do some tricks like carpet over them and spray it with waterproofing (spray can stuff for clothes), or use grille material, use chicken wire and carpet where they might get kicked/etc. Try to mount vertical so rain stays off them (though its usually beer not rain). You can check out Polks they are all marine rated.

Make sure your amp wires are large enough because with a boat you have only 12v on the battery (or often you do) and the ground is a wire not the body of a car so it adds resistance over a car system. Today I would only use class D amps maybe H, unless it was a smaller amp like 50wpc or less. I would try to use ported or IB subs, better efficiency really helps in drivers and install and amps. Be careful of cooling the amps, though class D run a lot cooler. We had to put fans on some class AB then they got hot enough in a couple hours to shut down, but PC fans take little power anyway.

The old pots work but only handle rated power as they have resistors in them usually and will overheat. It would be nicer to buy a powered amp gain remote, but depends on your budget. We often had none or small amp on the cuddy, so would just put a switch on the main amp to shut down the remote for it when cuddy only was used. The boats I worked on would run 50-80mph, mostly all cigarette style or some variant. Didn't even have to run mufflers back then, at least around here we got away with it. Dry pipes would get you in trouble though.


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## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

Sorry to post off-topic but. Nice looking boat Mate. Makes my lil 14.5 footer look sick.


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

West Marine's Pro speakers are worth looking at. They have a ton of bottom and aren't overly bright which is great for a boat when under way. The wind and wake and engine kill all the mid bass.


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

First question is Will this boat be in fresh water or salt water. If it is in salt water Id be more aprehensive about using expensive amps intended for automotive use. Its not a question of if the salt air will get to them its when. Id also prefer to use Marine rated speakers for above decks (my recomendations above decks are either JL marine or Polyplanar, both of which make some drivers that look at home on a boat like yours

I would also agree with sqshoestring on size. I generally try to use 7.7 inch or 8 inch separates or coaxials above decks

There are also some nice Marine head units that have multiple zones that will allow you to adjust the volume for the cabin speakers separately from the above decks speakers, and most of them have wired water resistant remotes. Kenwood, Polyplanar, Clarion and Alpine all make one from my recollection.


ps is that a sea ray? 
Which furuno radar is that?
edit avoid west marine for anything besides big ticket electronic purchases, and instant necesities, they are terribly overpriced on installation materials (wire, antenas, antenna mounts, etc)


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

BOAT = Bust Out Another Thousand


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## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

I appreciate the thoughtful replies:

sqshoestring: Thanks for the suggestions. I agree with you that the serious SQ isn't for above deck. I want SQ down below because it's usually quiet and the environment is more suitable to listening. For above, I will probably just run the two speakers, so I'll consider the larger coax that you recommended. They are mounted inboard of the canvas, so they will rarely get rain, but there is some other spillage that could occur. They are mounted vertically and are about 3' up from the deck, so not really in the direct path of most liquids. With respect to cooling the amps, I'm still looking for the best place. Both the Xtants that I have have internal pc-fans (the 1001 has 2 of them), that do a pretty good job cooling. I'll look into the amp gain remote.

jp88: I mentioned that I'm moored in freshwater and covered, but it probably got buried in my long post. I am trying to stick with that Alpine head unit, so I could easily just wire the front RCA outs to the below deck speakers and the rears to the above and just use the fader in the head unit instead of dealing with the old pots. The Alpine has a remote that I can point at the unit from the helm, so that's good. I'll definitely look into the JL and Polyplanar marine speakers for the above deck pair. Yep, it's a Sea Ray Sundancer 340. I have a Furuno 1731 Mk3 for the radar and a GP1610CF color GPS plotter.

Earzbleed: thanks! It's a handful in general (lol @ twin 454s), but I had 6 people out on it yesterday and you're never tripping over each other. I've had up to 20, and it's getting cramped, but that's a good party.

robtr8: I'll take a look, but I'm really apprehensive on West Marine for being overpriced junk. Also, I am pretty set on having my 2 13W6's in there, so I'm not going to be hurting for low-end at all. Mid is another story.

Sine Swept: yep, that's what people who don't have boats say all the time. Talking themselves out of owning one, I guess, or is it placating their inability to own one? It's clever, but the boat owners just wave at them sitting on the shore with everyone else.


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

Brazil said:


> jp88: I mentioned that I'm moored in freshwater and covered, but it probably got buried in my long post. I am trying to stick with that Alpine head unit, so I could easily just wire the front RCA outs to the below deck speakers and the rears to the above and just use the fader in the head unit instead of dealing with the old pots. The Alpine has a remote that I can point at the unit from the helm, so that's good. I'll definitely look into the JL and Polyplanar marine speakers for the above deck pair. Yep, it's a Sea Ray Sundancer 340. I have a Furuno 1731 Mk3 for the radar and a GP1610CF color GPS plotter.


I thought it looked like an older sundancer, but its been a minute since I have seen one of that vintage. It looks to be in pretty good shape from the pic you posted.

I missed the freshwater part in your op that is pretty big as saltwater is hatefull to damn near any material.




Brazil said:


> Sine Swept: yep, that's what people who don't have boats say all the time. Talking themselves out of owning one, I guess, or is it placating their inability to own one? It's clever, but the boat owners just wave at them sitting on the shore with everyone else.


I Installed and repaired Marine electronics along with a few other odds and ends on boats for about 12 years. In my experience the best kind of boat belongs to a friend.


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## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

I hear you on the friend's boat, but I have a great time working on it... even head down in the engine room working on a bilge pump just out of reach. The reward is worth it and I can do pretty much all the work myself.

On the other hand, I like being the owner/captain and getting to go out when I want, where I want, and invite whom I want. I don't like to be along for the ride as much or always be the "guest." Plus, this is the kind of boat you take out to the islands and stay overnight and no friend is ever going to let you do that kind of thing.


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## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

Sorry to be snide, but this isn't OT and your response wasn't helpful at all. Carry on.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

If you know what you are doing large boats can be had relatively cheap....meaning comparable to other entertainment/RVs/etc. Not sure why anyone would think they are particularly expensive. If they are expensive you can finance them cheap. This economy does not make it easier to own one however, doh:blush: but likely makes them cheaper to buy.

Anyway for the outside drivers, larger sure does help in the open spaces. We usually put the amps behind the dash or that side of the cuddy. There are some nice marine HU, guess it depends on your budget and use if you need them. Should have said yes here is all freshwater and in boats that size we rarely had issue with water/moisture using auto products and some common sense with install. We would use dielectric grease on plugs and solder or sometimes silicone on connections. The oxygen free copper wire turns green much faster on boats, maybe why I never liked it that much tinned is better IMHO.


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## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

Yeah, this boat is a 1985, but doesn't really look its age. Many things have been updated over the years. I bought it in October, at the end of boating season. The owner was in a hurry to finance his winter toys and sold it for far less than it's worth. I paid cash and can easily get out what I've put in so far with various upgrades. It's not an investment by any means, but it's not a hole either.

Here's how you make a boat really expensive: 1. buy it new; 2. let a mechanic/boat repairman do all the work for you; 3. buy all your parts at West Marine... 

I'm good on the head unit and amps. You may not be familiar with this layout, but the head unit is below deck, but within view from the cockpit with a remote, and is well protected from all elements. I will be mounting the amps below deck as well, a close shot to the batteries. There's plenty of regular home electronics below deck. I have a 40" LCD TV, blu-ray player, N64 (lol), microwave, fridge, etc. It's like a houseboat down there. So, above, the only components will be the subs (2x 13W6V2) and one set of the components. For the components below, I'll go regular automotive SQ something like Hertz HSK 165. 

For the ones above, you guys have made some good suggestions. There's an 8" 3-way Polyplanar platinum speaker that's only $170 and would run well off the 75wrms (conservative) of the Xtant X604. Poly-Planar MA6800 8" speakers - Set of Two The JL Marine 7.7" speakers (coax or component) are pretty good too, but quite a bit more expensive. I'll probably pick between those two. 

I'm pretty much set on the rest of the components. I just have to figure out what to do with the pots (probably delete them) and then do the amp and sub wiring. I'll be using silicone or something sealed for the connections above. Most of the boat wiring is exposed and doesn't have a problem with corrosion.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I'll definitely be watching your progress on this project. That is a great boat - nearly yacht territory to me  That would be a lot of fun - great place to listen below decks.


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## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

I got the MT23 tweeters today. They look great. I'll put them in this coming weekend and let you know how it goes. Thanks again.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Awesome! I'm glad they got there safe and sound.


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## Brazil (May 31, 2013)

As an update, I was able to get a great deal on a pair of the 8" coaxial 3-way Polyplanar MA6800 (the above deck speakers) for about $100 shipped, so it left a little extra for the below-deck components. These will work well with the pair of 13W6V2 subs.

For the components below-deck, I decided to bastardize a set of Morel Tempo 6. Someone was selling the woofers and crossovers alone for a good deal, and bertholomey was selling the MT-23 tweeters, so I'm pairing those together. The tweeters should be much better than the bundled Tempo 6 set, so it should be good.

I should get most of it installed this weekend, so I'll report back how it goes/sounds.


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