# Legends of Car Audio ebay store



## stickpony

this guy has some amazing stuff, for those looking for New Old School goodness.... just thought i would share:

Legends of Car Audio | eBay Stores


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## rob feature

sweet


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## pickup1

Proud of those prices..


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## nineball

where in the hell would you find a collection as large as this all NIB some 20-35 years old? it just baffles me.


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## rayray881

Prices look high on a lot of items.


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## stickpony

rayray881 said:


> Prices look high on a lot of items.




What! Almost Everything is brand New, never used. Where else can you find 15 and 20 year old equipment brand new??!!


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## stickpony

nineball said:


> where in the hell would you find a collection as large as this all NIB some 20-35 years old? it just baffles me.




Exactly. It's crazy. I was a car audio dealer back in the day, and many of his prices are close to distribution cost, so they are very reasonably priced. A couple of the rare items are expensive, but that's normal


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## sq2k1

Its all been stashed in a time capsule.....a fairly large time capsule......


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## kyheng

While it is new, but for the duration of keeping, I'll pass, considering the capacitor's lifespan.


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## leonpiper69

stickpony said:


> Exactly. It's crazy. I was a car audio dealer back in the day, and many of his prices are close to distribution cost, so they are very reasonably priced. A couple of the rare items are expensive, but that's normal
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I used to work in a shop in the 90s I a lot of the stuff I am seeing listed is higher than dist pricing and most is junk. Most are 20-30 yr old subs that people forget were all the same parts with diff labels and the reason they are rare is because no one saved them because they weren't worth saving. And while it might be cool because it's older you can buy ten times better gear for a fraction of the price today.

a Petra sub isn't worth 10 bucks LOL let alone 300 

That being said I still have some older stuff myself but I won't overpay for it.


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## rayray881

Just my opinion that prices are high. If you think an item is worth it then go for it.


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## Victor_inox

kyheng said:


> While it is new, but for the duration of keeping, I'll pass, considering the capacitor's lifespan.


Capacitors without power applied can be stored almost indefinitely (in terms of human life span)

current flow and heat killing capacitors not time.


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## Victor_inox

rayray881 said:


> Just my opinion that prices are high. If you think an item is worth it then go for it.


In comparison what you can get today for comparable amount prices indeed high. Old **** has sentimental value for some people despite that fact.


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## rayray881

Exactly


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## Victor_inox




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## Victor_inox

Now this is a steal


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## felix509

kyheng said:


> While it is new, but for the duration of keeping, I'll pass, considering the capacitor's lifespan.


Something a wise man once told me:

_Capacitors do fail, but it has nothing to do with charge / discharge or age. It is a function of temperature & ripple current._


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## grinkeeper

This guys collection is extensive to say the least and there is some real nice pieces. I find the prices are too high usually. The NIB stuff can be argued as closer to fair market value as they are new. 

If I was selling some of my O/S amps then this Ebay Seller is helping keeping the price of Old School gear high. 

Now on the other hand if I was buying O/S amps this Ebay seller is working against my best interests.

So it works both ways I guess. Truth is that this guy has lots of gear and its all been for sale for a long time. It doesn’t look like he is selling a whole lot. It is nice to see that someone is keeping the O/S/market alive and well and is working to document the progression of O/S history through his sales. So good on him.


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## MACS

I have bought a few rare items from him and the prices we settled on were very fair. Those Ebay prices are not necessarily what you have to pay .


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## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> In comparison what you can get today for comparable amount prices indeed high. Old **** has sentimental value for some people despite that fact.


old **** tends to be better built too.. today's gear is riddled with garbage components. newer isn't always better.. i would think that YOU of all people, who is selling TUBE pre-amps would understand that. 


what the **** is wrong with some of the people in this thread!!??? nothing but negative nancy's! i post a really cool find, a store with hundred of pieces of legacy and classic car audio gear, NEW, and you find a way to **** on it!??


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## stickpony

​


MACS said:


> I have bought a few rare items from him and the prices we settled on were very fair. Those Ebay prices are not necessarily what you have to pay .


indeed. the Art of negotiation


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## DC/Hertz

stickpony said:


> old **** tends to be better built too.. today's gear is riddled with garbage components. newer isn't always better.. i would think that YOU of all people, who is selling TUBE pre-amps would understand that.
> 
> 
> what the **** is wrong with some of the people in this thread!!??? nothing but negative nancy's! i post a really cool find, a store with hundred of pieces of legacy and classic car audio gear, NEW, and you find a way to **** on it!??


New stuff is built fine if you are not buying junk. Don't forget, there was a lot of crap built back in the day also.


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## Victor_inox

stickpony said:


> old **** tends to be better built too.. today's gear is riddled with garbage components. newer isn't always better.. i would think that YOU of all people, who is selling TUBE pre-amps would understand that.
> 
> 
> what the **** is wrong with some of the people in this thread!!??? nothing but negative nancy's! i post a really cool find, a store with hundred of pieces of legacy and classic car audio gear, NEW, and you find a way to **** on it!??


Not all old **** was better build and that guy listing is perfecr demonstration of it.
Where do you find me ****ting on it?
I just expressed my opinion why people buying old stuff.
I despise term "old school" as overused and presented as superior by default.


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## DC/Hertz

Same as people that still think A/B is superior to D. Go get a A/B boss amp


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## rayray881

Guess the op is triggered from differing opinions.


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## PPI_GUY

I think some of his asking prices for subs are a little too high. Actually owning some 80's-90's subs, I can tell you that they are night and day from what is offered nowadays. Completely different animals. Older subs were built when big power would have been 250 watts to a single sub. So, they were more efficient and power sensitive. And the build quality was just OK, not superior in most cases. 
I like and use the older V1 and V2 Image Dynamics IDQ subs from back in the day. So, I guess the market is there. But, I do USE those subs. There are some people who will pay a lot for nostalgia pieces that they can sit on their shelves and brag about owning.


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## DC/Hertz

Speaking of old subs. 
A friend pulled a old mid 90s Rockford out of his attic. Everything was rubbed off so I'm not sure the model, it looked to have a 2.5in coil. 
We built a 1cu sealed box for it, basic 12in. 
Thing wouldn't play under 45hz for nothing. Maybe it needed more airspace but it killed my idea of doing a old school build.


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## stickpony

DC/Hertz said:


> Speaking of old subs.
> 
> A friend pulled a old mid 90s Rockford out of his attic. Everything was rubbed off so I'm not sure the model, it looked to have a 2.5in coil.
> 
> We built a 1cu sealed box for it, basic 12in.
> 
> Thing wouldn't play under 45hz for nothing. Maybe it needed more airspace but it killed my idea of doing a old school build.




The sub was the problem, not the amp, I assure you 


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## stickpony

DC/Hertz said:


> Same as people that still think A/B is superior to D. Go get a A/B boss amp




Comparing a technology to a brand makes no sense. Comparing a brand to a brand is what you should be doing, or comparing different technologies within a brand name. For example: compare a class A/B Boss amp to a class D Boss amp . 

Randomly pulling 'Boss' out as a testament to A/B amps being inferior to class D makes no sense. That like comparing say the job of President of the United States is better than the Vice President, but only if it's Barack Obama. The comparison make ZERO sense


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## stickpony

PPI_GUY said:


> I think some of his asking prices for subs are a little too high. Actually owning some 80's-90's subs, I can tell you that they are night and day from what is offered nowadays. Completely different animals. Older subs were built when big power would have been 250 watts to a single sub. So, they were more efficient and power sensitive. And the build quality was just OK, not superior in most cases.
> 
> I like and use the older V1 and V2 Image Dynamics IDQ subs from back in the day. So, I guess the market is there. But, I do USE those subs. There are some people who will pay a lot for nostalgia pieces that they can sit on their shelves and brag about owning.




Supply and demand buddy. It's legacy equipment


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## stickpony

DC/Hertz said:


> New stuff is built fine if you are not buying junk. Don't forget, there was a lot of crap built back in the day also.




And those same crap brands permeate the marketplace today. What's your point!


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## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> Not all old **** was better build and that guy listing is perfecr demonstration of it.
> Where do you find me ****ting on it?
> I just expressed my opinion why people buying old stuff.
> I despise term "old school" as overused and presented as superior by default.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk




So go look at the store and tell me in your esteemed opinion, what qualifies as good and bad in that eBay store. 

'Despise' sure is a strong word, coming from an old school guy. Make sense! 


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## Victor_inox

stickpony said:


> So go look at the store and tell me in your esteemed opinion, what qualifies as good and bad in that eBay store.
> 
> 'Despise' sure is a strong word, coming from an old school guy. Make sense!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I have better things to do than browse his 600 items again. 

Don`t you agree than term "oldschool" is overused by many?
Old stuff doesn`t make it "old school" 

Many of his things is top shelf **** if you stuck in 1990, I`m trying not to. 
Top shelf means top dollars, see that surfboard he posing with for example? 4 grand-yeah right... same power can be had for 1/10 today. 
building tube amplifiers doesn`t mean I use old tech, well audio part of it is but making 300-700V out of available 14 is nothing old school nor old tech.


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## PPI_GUY

stickpony said:


> Supply and demand buddy. It's legacy equipment
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, his supply seems to be healthy as he has a lot of gear for sale. 
Demand? Maybe not so much. I see a lot of his stuff stay up for a long time and eventually get reposted.
I'm not hatin' on him. I hope he keeps selling gear for crazy high prices. Makes all mine worth more!


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## PPI_GUY

Victor_inox said:


> I have better things to do than browse his 600 items again.
> 
> Don`t you agree than term "oldschool" is overused by many?
> Old stuff doesn`t make it "old school"
> 
> Many of his things is top shelf **** if you stuck in 1990, I`m trying not to.
> Top shelf means top dollars, see that surfboard he posing with for example? 4 grand-yeah right... same power can be had for 1/10 today.
> building tube amplifiers doesn`t mean I use old tech, well audio part of it is but making 300-700V out of available 14 is nothing old school nor old tech.


You're right about the obsolescence of older gear. I have a 1600 watt PPI amp sitting across the room from me. It's 30" long. The same power can now be had in a chassis roughly only 12" long. Yeah, it'll be class D and no one...NO ONE will ever be able to tell the difference. Especially on a subwoofer(s) playing 20Hz- 80Hz.
But, I do love this old stuff. And of course it's totally a nostalgia thing. I literally have nothing I could put that PPI surfboard in without major modifications. So, I'm as guilty as anyone I guess.


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## Pseudonym

this zuki's old collection?


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## High Resolution Audio

All I can say is thank God for this guy. I've purchased several things from him.

Including my Old School BNIB MB Quart Discus 15" subs, that I just installed in the Time Machine.

Best Subs I have ever heard in my life.


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## will.

Here are some old school goodies...

Pair Old School Boss American 12" subwoofers, Rare, Vintage, Made in USA | eBay

Let this hilarious thread carry on...


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## DC/Hertz

No. It's old school it must be praised as the best ever. Nothing today is made that well.


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## stickpony

PPI_GUY said:


> You're right about the obsolescence of older gear. I have a 1600 watt PPI amp sitting across the room from me. It's 30" long. The same power can now be had in a chassis roughly only 12" long. Yeah, it'll be class D and no one...NO ONE will ever be able to tell the difference. Especially on a subwoofer(s) playing 20Hz- 80Hz.
> But, I do love this old stuff. And of course it's totally a nostalgia thing. I literally have nothing I could put that PPI surfboard in without major modifications. So, I'm as guilty as anyone I guess.


exactly. 

todays new cars are superior to cars from 20-30 years ago in every way, except for Nostalgia and collectors curiosity.

now some old school gear truly does have some amazing sound. AND, collecting it transports you back in time , invoking feelings from years ago. 

perfect example:

years ago i always wanted the US Amps tu-4360 amp in my car, but for whatever reason, i never purchased one. But fast forward to modern times, thanks to ebay, i found some NOS( new old stock) of that exact amp from 1999, and i bought it.

Is the sound 'superior' to new equipment? who knows. that's the beauty of music. sound is subjective. But it does sound unique compared to other sound systems from today. it has more warmth and separation than many modern high tech amps ive listened to. newer isn't always better. 

thats just one example of course. naturally, there is good with bad mixed in as well in regards to the guy's ebay store. 

All i know is that all the people bitching and whining about price are obviously not collectors, and do not understand the principle of supply and demand. if the supply is low, or something is obsolete or hard to find, and there is still a demand for it, then the price will fluctuate according to those principles.

MOST( not all, but most ) of that equipment on that ebay listing are below distribution cost from that time period, i know this because i was a dealer for about 3 years and was familiar with distribution costs so they are priced affordably in my opinion. you can compare technologies and time periods all you want, but its not about that. it is supply... and demand. plain and simple


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## PPI_GUY

DC/Hertz said:


> No. It's old school it must be praised as the best ever. Nothing today is made that well.


There are arguments both ways. Older amps were very basic...no crossovers, bass boost circuits (except for RF, ha!) or subsonic filters, etc. 
Those amps just did what they were meant to do...amplify the signal. 
But, they were terribly inefficient. Even modern class A/B amps from better known manufacturers are better. 

Meanwhile, newer class D amps offer a lot to the consumer. Much smaller footprint, sometimes bordering on tiny. More power with less heat and strain on the electrical system. Quality crossovers and even in a few cases, onboard processing is becoming the norm. How long till we see a 1000 watt amp the size of a credit card? 

So, a new 2017 Corvette will run rings around a '65 split-window. But, there are still plenty of people who desire the older car, either for collectability purposes or for pure nostalgia. 
I don't think it's an either/or kind of thing. You can own and enjoy both.


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## DC/Hertz

That's true. I just never had the desire to go back to the 90s. I don't have a disposable income to be a collector. 
I do still think the old PG ZX amps are some of the best looking amps out there. It was also my first amp I bought on my own. All the ones before where pass downs from my dads RF sponsored SPL rig.


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## PPI_GUY

stickpony said:


> exactly.
> 
> All i know is that all the people bitching and whining about price are obviously not collectors, and do not understand the principle of supply and demand. if the supply is low, or something is obsolete or hard to find, and there is still a demand for it, then the price will fluctuate according to those principles.


I disagree. In recent years I've seen prices for PPI amps (just an example) skyrocket and I believe much of it is because of an artificially induced frenzy. Primarily by sellers on eBay continually listing gear at higher and higher prices. I know there are circumstances unique to each item being listed but, an average or "neighborhood" price isn't hard to figure. So, if an amp that was selling for a BIN of $125 three or four years ago now has an asking price of $225-$250, what happened? 

My opinion is that there are quite a few more "flippers" and "basement retailers" around now that are trying to make a living off of the car audio collector hobby. A few years ago they saw an old amp in very average condition sell for $125 and they say to themselves "I can go to yard sales and flea markets, buy up all this old gear and jack up the price and make bank."
Only, we all know making $30-$40 profit on each piece soon isn't enough and therefore the prices start to go up. That isn't supply and demand ruling the market. 

I don't call myself a collector as I actually only have maybe 25-30 pieces. But, some are very rare and most are in extremely nice condition. Most all of them cost me a fair price. When I say "fair" I mean a fair price for 20-25 year old equipment that even though it says "Made In The USA", is in all likelihood inferior to comparable modern gear made in some far off land. 

Finally, I would advise shoppers to learn to walk away from prices that are just thru the roof. A used piece of equipment, even though it may be nice and perhaps even rare, is NOT worth the same or more than retailers asked for it 20 years ago. Common sense FTW.


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## DC/Hertz

I still see Alpine F#1 status HUs fetching just a bit under retail. Sure it was great then but now it's nothing.


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## will.

PPI_GUY said:


> I disagree. In recent years I've seen prices for PPI amps (just an example) skyrocket and I believe much of it is because of an artificially induced frenzy. Primarily by sellers on eBay continually listing gear at higher and higher prices. I know there are circumstances unique to each item being listed but, an average or "neighborhood" price isn't hard to figure. So, if an amp that was selling for a BIN of $125 three or four years ago now has an asking price of $225-$250, what happened?
> 
> My opinion is that there are quite a few more "flippers" and "basement retailers" around now that are trying to make a living off of the car audio collector hobby. A few years ago they saw an old amp in very average condition sell for $125 and they say to themselves "I can go to yard sales and flea markets, buy up all this old gear and jack up the price and make bank."
> Only, we all know making $30-$40 profit on each piece soon isn't enough and therefore the prices start to go up. That isn't supply and demand ruling the market.
> 
> I don't call myself a collector as I actually only have maybe 25-30 pieces. But, some are very rare and most are in extremely nice condition. Most all of them cost me a fair price. When I say "fair" I mean a fair price for 20-25 year old equipment that even though it says "Made In The USA", is in all likelihood inferior to comparable modern gear made in some far off land.
> 
> Finally, I would advise shoppers to learn to walk away from prices that are just thru the roof. A used piece of equipment, even though it may be nice and perhaps even rare, is NOT worth the same or more than retailers asked for it 20 years ago. Common sense FTW.


Prices are on the rise for high end OS strictly due to a steady demand and less and less supply. Regardless of who is selling the gear, if the price is too high for demand, it won't sell plain and simple. 

In the case of hurricane, this is not his primary source of income, enjoys hoarding and therefor is only half motivated to sell hence the ridiculous prices.

He hasnt moved any of his bnib US Amps stock in over 2 years. Yet it still sits there, why? Because he can and it doesn't matter because I won't buy it.

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## PPI_GUY

will. said:


> Prices are on the rise for high end OS strictly due to a steady demand and less and less supply. Regardless of who is selling the gear, if the price is too high for demand, it won't sell plain and simple.


I don't know, I haven't seen a significant drop in the amount of old PPI amps that pop up on eBay. But, for other manufacturers there may be something in what you say. I just don't notice the stuff I am not interested in I guess.

I wasn't specifically calling out any eBay retailer but, rather the market as a whole. If someone wants to collect a hoard of old gear then, by all means they should do so. But, the continually skyrocketing prices are beginning to "price out" some would-be enthusiasts who would like to just pick up a few nice old pieces.


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## KillerBox

I bought 5 BNIB Coustic BassPumps from him. They were delivered in a timely manner, condition as stated & for the agreed price. That is all I want from a seller. 

It is up to Buyer (me) to agree to pay his price or not, just like it is with stuff being produced today. 

So I am glad there are people like him finding this old school stuff & saving it! I know that I don't have time to drive all over looking for it!


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## Hillbilly SQ

High Resolution Audio said:


> All I can say is thank God for this guy. I've purchased several things from him.
> 
> Including my Old School BNIB MB Quart Discus 15" subs, that I just installed in the Time Machine.
> 
> Best Subs I have ever heard in my life.


They did sound good and was shocked when I looked up and saw what they were. I assume those are from before the Maxxonics buyout?


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## rob feature

KillerBox said:


> I bought 5 BNIB Coustic BassPumps from him. They were delivered in a timely manner, condition as stated & for the agreed price. That is all I want from a seller.
> 
> It is up to Buyer (me) to agree to pay his price or not, just like it is with stuff being produced today.
> 
> So I am glad there are people like him finding this old school stuff & saving it! I know that I don't have time to drive all over looking for it!


Werd. And seriously - who else has this kinda stuff BNIB? Let alone five? 

I personally found most of the prices to be quite reasonable. Some are inflated yes, but for BNIB stuff as rare as some of it is, there are some bargains there too.


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## DC/Hertz

There is shop around here that has a ton of NIB late 90s Memphis, and PG stuff. But they want late 90s retail for it. I don't think he really wanted to sell it. He wanted $450 for a orange basket mojo 12. It wasn't the big one either.


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## High Resolution Audio

Hillbilly SQ said:


> They did sound good and was shocked when I looked up and saw what they were. I assume those are from before the Maxxonics buyout?


They are from way back......Just did a re-tune for center seat. Just realized there was a gap between the mid-bass and subs. I had no 40-50. The Quarts play from 50 down now. Van has a nice punch now. 

I didn't get to sit in your ride this time around. Hopefully at the next event.


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## stickpony

PPI_GUY said:


> I disagree. In recent years I've seen prices for PPI amps (just an example) skyrocket and I believe much of it is because of an artificially induced frenzy. Primarily by sellers on eBay continually listing gear at higher and higher prices. I know there are circumstances unique to each item being listed but, an average or "neighborhood" price isn't hard to figure. So, if an amp that was selling for a BIN of $125 three or four years ago now has an asking price of $225-$250, what happened?
> 
> 
> 
> My opinion is that there are quite a few more "flippers" and "basement retailers" around now that are trying to make a living off of the car audio collector hobby. A few years ago they saw an old amp in very average condition sell for $125 and they say to themselves "I can go to yard sales and flea markets, buy up all this old gear and jack up the price and make bank."
> 
> Only, we all know making $30-$40 profit on each piece soon isn't enough and therefore the prices start to go up. That isn't supply and demand ruling the market.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't call myself a collector as I actually only have maybe 25-30 pieces. But, some are very rare and most are in extremely nice condition. Most all of them cost me a fair price. When I say "fair" I mean a fair price for 20-25 year old equipment that even though it says "Made In The USA", is in all likelihood inferior to comparable modern gear made in some far off land.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I would advise shoppers to learn to walk away from prices that are just thru the roof. A used piece of equipment, even though it may be nice and perhaps even rare, is NOT worth the same or more than retailers asked for it 20 years ago. Common sense FTW.




Two things happened: inflation ( the dollar is literally worth less than 1/3rd of what it was worth back in 1995 ), and again supply and demand. If dealers who still carry the gear are listing at higher prices, and the market dictates that they can sell at those higher prices, then that's exactly what the amp is worth in the marketplace.

This 'artificially induced frenzy' that you speak of doesn't exist. All the 'basement retailers' didn't get together and have a convention about colluding and jacking up the price on old school gear. This isn't the Fed releasing paper short sales for Gold or Silver into the marketplace to drive up or down the price of commodities, its audio gear bro. Again just simple economics at play here: supply, and demand.


Additionally, you are talking about used equipment. The listing I posted was mostly NOS gear ( New Old Stock), which carries a higher value than good condition used equipment. 

Again, supply and demand.


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## will.

stickpony said:


> Two things happened: inflation ( the dollar is literally worth less than 1/3rd of what it was worth back in 1995 ), and again supply and demand. If dealers who still carry the gear are listing at higher prices, and the market dictates that they can sell at those higher prices, then that's exactly what the amp is worth in the marketplace.
> 
> This 'artificially induced frenzy' that you speak of doesn't exist. All the 'basement retailers' didn't get together and have a convention about colluding and jacking up the price on old school gear. This isn't the Fed releasing paper short sales for Gold or Silver into the marketplace to drive up or down the price of commodities, its audio gear bro. Again just simple economics at play here: supply, and demand.
> 
> 
> Additionally, you are talking about used equipment. The listing I posted was mostly NOS gear ( New Old Stock), which carries a higher value than good condition used equipment.
> 
> Again, supply and demand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well put. No such thing as inflated prices by design.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## PPI_GUY

stickpony said:


> This 'artificially induced frenzy' that you speak of doesn't exist. All the 'basement retailers' didn't get together and have a convention about colluding and jacking up the price on old school gear. This isn't the Fed releasing paper short sales for Gold or Silver into the marketplace to drive up or down the price of commodities, its audio gear bro. Again just simple economics at play here: supply, and demand.
> 
> 
> Additionally, you are talking about used equipment. The listing I posted was mostly NOS gear ( New Old Stock), which carries a higher value than good condition used equipment.
> 
> Again, supply and demand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who said anything about colluding? 
I'm talking about everyone from the basshead kid who casually lurks on Car Audio forums or even cruises eBay to the casual enthusiast, to the guys who try to make a living selling old school gear. They ALL exist and they have all contributed to the rising price of older gear. Of course they aren't working together but, they all see $$$ in old gear. 
Maybe they see an old amp in a pawn shop or their dad has some pieces stashed in a garage, whatever the scenario guys see it as a chance to make some money. OK, that's fine but, don't double the price of your Zed-made Hifonics because you saw a few sell on an auction site. 
Perception becomes reality. If a old RF amp is perceived to be worth twice what it was 6 months ago then that is what the new going rate will become. 

There is no shortage of old school gear. There is plenty of it everywhere. Is it all NOS? Of course not and as I said if people can get ridiculous prices for 25 year old gear then more power to them. But, unless it's a PPI 2500F1 or something along the lines of super exotic then I think there is a limit on its value. In the last 6-12 months I have seen some ridiculous prices start showing up. $1000+ for a set of used (but, in good shape) PPI A600.2 amps??? Come on! We're talking about 25 year old technology. For just a bit more you can buy new Brax/Helix/Audison/Tru Technology gear that is all of superior quality, more efficient and smaller in footprint.

You don't see the artificially induced frenzy then, fine that OK. But, I got into car audio in the mid-eighties. I remember what stuff cost back then and we are getting darn close to those prices again. In some cases even surpassing them. That's just not good common sense and it's being helped along by some (maybe not everyone) who are in it solely for a profit. And I'm all for profit but, it does come at the expense of widening the hobby. 
And now we are seeing more and more unscrupulous sellers trying to make quick cash grabs. Don't tell me people aren't seeing these rising prices as an opportunity to grab some cash...and the more they can grab the better. So, there's another contributing factor in the ever-inflating prices.


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## stickpony

PPI_GUY said:


> Who said anything about colluding?
> I'm talking about everyone from the basshead kid who casually lurks on Car Audio forums or even cruises eBay to the casual enthusiast, to the guys who try to make a living selling old school gear. They ALL exist and they have all contributed to the rising price of older gear. Of course they aren't working together but, they all see $$$ in old gear.
> Maybe they see an old amp in a pawn shop or their dad has some pieces stashed in a garage, whatever the scenario guys see it as a chance to make some money. OK, that's fine but, don't double the price of your Zed-made Hifonics because you saw a few sell on an auction site.
> Perception becomes reality. If a old RF amp is perceived to be worth twice what it was 6 months ago then that is what the new going rate will become.
> 
> There is no shortage of old school gear. There is plenty of it everywhere. Is it all NOS? Of course not and as I said if people can get ridiculous prices for 25 year old gear then more power to them. But, unless it's a PPI 2500F1 or something along the lines of super exotic then I think there is a limit on its value. In the last 6-12 months I have seen some ridiculous prices start showing up. $1000+ for a set of used (but, in good shape) PPI A600.2 amps??? Come on! We're talking about 25 year old technology. For just a bit more you can buy new Brax/Helix/Audison/Tru Technology gear that is all of superior quality, more efficient and smaller in footprint.
> 
> You don't see the artificially induced frenzy then, fine that OK. But, I got into car audio in the mid-eighties. I remember what stuff cost back then and we are getting darn close to those prices again. In some cases even surpassing them. That's just not good common sense and it's being helped along by some (maybe not everyone) who are in it solely for a profit. And I'm all for profit but, it does come at the expense of widening the hobby.
> And now we are seeing more and more unscrupulous sellers trying to make quick cash grabs. Don't tell me people aren't seeing these rising prices as an opportunity to grab some cash...and the more they can grab the better. So, there's another contributing factor in the ever-inflating prices.


You just described supply and demand. just because someone lists something at a price doesnt mean its going to sell. the market is self-correcting. 

additionally, you are completely overlooking inflation. perfect example: Gas prices today are more than double what they were back in the 80's, BUT, the value of the dollar in relation to Gold and Silver is literally 1/3rd of what it was in the 80's, so that gallon of gas you buy at $2.25/gal is CHEAPER than the gallon of gas you bought in 1988 at $0.95/ gal, when you adjust the value of the dollar for inflation. 

Likewise, a $300 amp is no longer a $300 amp.. if you are comparing it to 1980's prices, and adjust for inflation, that's really only $100 amp, in 1980's money. 

So lets say you see this nice NOS amp that you want, and a seller lists it at $300, but the original sale price back in 1988 was only $200. if you adjust that 1988 price for inflation, that $200 would actually be $600 in today's money, so that NOS amp is actually half off, after you adjust for inflation


you are thinking very one-dimensionally, and need to adjust your thinking. With the exception of a small handful of extremely rare items the guy is asking too much for, everything els ein that store is very well priced, IMO. Granted, if you aren't making 3 times as much money than you were in 1980, i can see why you would have room to complain, but thats really not the case. salaries have gone up... waaaay up in fact, with inflation, in most industries.

we can argue till the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that basic economic principles disagree with what you are saying.

just my humble Opinion


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## PPI_GUY

:2thumbsup:


stickpony said:


> You just described supply and demand. just because someone lists something at a price doesnt mean its going to sell. the market is self-correcting.
> 
> additionally, you are completely overlooking inflation. perfect example: Gas prices today are more than double what they were back in the 80's, BUT, the value of the dollar in relation to Gold and Silver is literally 1/3rd of what it was in the 80's, so that gallon of gas you buy at $2.25/gal is CHEAPER than the gallon of gas you bought in 1988 at $0.95/ gal, when you adjust the value of the dollar for inflation.
> 
> Likewise, a $300 amp is no longer a $300 amp.. if you are comparing it to 1980's prices, and adjust for inflation, that's really only $100 amp, in 1980's money.
> 
> So lets say you see this nice NOS amp that you want, and a seller lists it at $300, but the original sale price back in 1988 was only $200. if you adjust that 1988 price for inflation, that $200 would actually be $600 in today's money, so that NOS amp is actually half off, after you adjust for inflation
> 
> 
> you are thinking very one-dimensionally, and need to adjust your thinking. With the exception of a small handful of extremely rare items the guy is asking too much for, everything els ein that store is very well priced, IMO. Granted, if you aren't making 3 times as much money than you were in 1980, i can see why you would have room to complain, but thats really not the case. salaries have gone up... waaaay up in fact, with inflation, in most industries.
> 
> we can argue till the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that basic economic principles disagree with what you are saying.
> 
> just my humble Opinion


Uh, I think it might be you that should "adjust your thinking". Ever heard of depreciation? As I have said repeatedly, technology changes and becomes obsolete. It's OK to have a soft spot for this old gear and I'll be the first to admit I do. But, I just looked at an auction on eBay for a NOS Sony CDX-R79 in dash (pull out) CD player where the BIN price is $799. That deck was clearance out by Crutchfield in 1988 or '89 for around $200. Ask me how I know that. Yep, I bought one and even competed with it for a year or two. It performed really well until you started the car and ran over a crack in the pavement. You can't tell me that is supply and demand. Seller probably found it at an estate sale and posted it with that crazy price hoping to find some idiot who would actually pay it. BTW, I have one just like it sitting in my basement (not NOS but, nice) that I'll take half that price for. 
Just one example but, others are easily found. 

Bottomline is just because something sold for $200 in 1988 doesn't mean it automatically quadruples in value over time. It certainly shouldn't double in a 12 month time frame. 
There are still reasonable sellers out there if you take some time and know where to look. Those people realize that we are dealing with 25 year old technology and that much better options are available today. Many are in the hobby for nostalgia and are OK with making a few dollars for their time and trouble but, are fair and have no interest in gouging fellow enthusiasts. 

I'm happy to agree to disagree. Experience tells me I'm right and that's good enough for me. No ill will intended friend. :thumbsup:


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## SHAGGS

You guys think O/S audio gear is pricey, try buying any original '32 Ford parts! 
You'd think they were made of 24k.


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## Dubstep

In the last 3 months or so, heres what I sold on FB.. Prices are definitely on the rise..

Bnib alpine 3558, $950
used alipne 3558 $650 (mint)
chrome shrouded PG ms2250 $1100 or $1300 I forget...(mint)
recapped PG ZPA .5 $650 x 2 (mint)
recapped PG ZPA .3 $450 (mint)
Bnib white PG ZPX2 $350
used black PG ZPX2 $275
used mint PG 2250 shroud $300


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## Brian_smith06

Brad is a good dude. If you don't like his price hit him up and discuss it with him. He is super reasonable and def an audio guy.


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## delerium168

I agree..Brad is great and trustworthy guy to deal with..been doing business with him for about 2 years now.
He stands 100% behind his stuff and service.


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## geshat00

delerium168 said:


> I agree..Brad is great and trustworthy guy to deal with..been doing business with him for about 2 years now.
> He stands 100% behind his stuff and service.


He also sits with it too!

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