# 2015 Toyota Camry XLE V6



## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I’ve always been interested in building a moderate SQ system ever since I heard a competition vehicle back in the 90’s, but never got around to dedicating the time/money to do so. Recent years have been dedicated to home improvements/repairs and I still have some more, uh, a lot more of that to do… actually I know now that will never end with owning a house. So I decided that I just have to do it. I sold my classic motorcycle to fund the project… it’s safer, and I’m safer, with it sitting in the private museum it resides at now anyway.

This is my first true full on car audio build. I’ve installed a few “deck ‘n four” in previous vehicles but never got past that. So if any of you see me doing something that doesn’t make sense or you feel there would be an easier way to accomplish it, please feel free to comment / criticize. It will take me awhile to complete (if it ever gets completed!) but I’ll update this thread as I make headway.

When it was time to buy a new vehicle; the ability to replace the head-unit without much hassle was toward the top of the list of “needs”. I know a lot of people have some great sounding systems using the stock unit but I wanted to have the option. I ended up with a 2015 Toyota Camry XLE V6. A dealer down in NC made me an offer I could not refuse which sealed the deal.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

The stock Entune Premium Audio w/ Navigation really leaves a lot to be desired. I can not hear a difference between playing 128k WMA file and the same track on the CD player. I can clearly tell the difference on my home system playing the same tracks. It’s almost like the DAC down converts the CD audio. Even the FM radio seams to introduce all sorts of digital artifacts to the signal that I never hear on the stock system in the wife’s car (2011 CR-V). And after reading about, and confirming it for myself, the noise floor issue people are having with the newer factory Toyota head units as a source to feed aftermarket equipment, I decided I would rather just start fresh with a clean source. I've researched quite a bit on what DSPs can fix (FR, TA, phase) and what they can't (poor SNR, Poor Dynamic Range, and Poor stereo separation from the source). I just can't see spending all the cash on downstream equipment and feeding it a poor signal.










Since the XLE V6 comes standard with Navigation, many vehicle options are controlled through the stereo, and it displays information on an aux screen in the gauge cluster; I had to choose an aftermarket Nav with Idatalink Maestro support. I spent many months reading & researching the differences between the Big Three’s offerings (Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine). Luckily a shop about an hour from me (Sounds Incredible Mobile Audio in Brookfield, CT) had each of the flagship ddin models on thier sound board. I spent several hours getting familiar with each one. I finally decided on the Alpine unit for the following reasons: I could care less about carplay or android auto, to me the UI is more intuitive than the others, it has more of a stock look and feel, the hard buttons are larger and feel more substantial, 9 band parametric eq AND bass/treble controls, and it comes in an 8” screen version that I will try to make fit. I actually chose to buy a previous gen X008U sound board demo instead of the new X108U because I'm not sure I'll like how it looks installed... if it don't work out I could sell it and not be out as much as if I bought the new one.

Here’s a photo of all the equipment I plan to install minus the subs which I haven’t decided on yet.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Unfortunately, Alpine does not make a perfect fit kit for the 2015+ Camry like they do for the 2012-2014 model years. That leaves me no choice but to get a dash install kit and modify it so the 8” Screen will fit. There are two companies that make a dash kit: Metra and American International (AMPP also sold under the BEST name). Sounds Incredible ordered both kits so that I could inspect them and see which one would be more suitable to fit an 8” screen in it. I chose the Metra kit in this case. Overall it felt much more substantial, using thicker plastic and the shape of the face provided for a flat surface to work with unlike the AMPP kit which would require cutting into compound curves.

I disassembled the dash kits main piece and masked it up for protection.










Then I cut a piece of ⅛” hdpe sheet the exact size of the face bezel on the Alpine. I used this piece to center and trace out the hole that will need be cut out.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

A scroll saw was used for the rough cut


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

The rough cuts were refined with a combination of a tile cutting bit on a rotary tool (Thanks @Theslaking for the tip), a file, and an mdf board covered in 120 grit sandpaper.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I found the bracket mounting holes and alignment tabs on the backside had to be removed also to get the Alpine to fit properly


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Thought it came out pretty good for my first go at it.


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## What? (Jun 5, 2008)

Truthunter said:


> 9 band parametric eq AND bass/treble controls,


"Bass" is #2 (of 9) parametric EQ adjustment, "Treble" is #8 (of 9). 


Truthunter said:


> I actually chose to buy a previous gen X008U sound board demo instead of the new X108U because I'm not sure I'll like how it looks installed.


 The X108U is much faster but no disc. Menu takes a little getting used to though. I have the X008 and it is great.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

What? said:


> "Bass" is #2 (of 9) parametric EQ adjustment, "Treble" is #8 (of 9).
> The X108U is much faster but no disc. Menu takes a little getting used to though. I have the X008 and it is great.


Glad to hear your happy with the X008U. Yes, I compared the two side by side and the X108U was about twice as fast, had a nicer display, plays flac, and gives the option of running separate 9 band PEQs on the front and back channels... basically 18 band PEQ built in! So damn expensive though for no cd player 
I got the demo X008U for a killer price with a full authorized Alpine dealer warrenty thanks to a member here.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Nice evening on the deck connecting the Alpine’s harnesses to the Maestro and TO2 Harnesses.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Used Tesa OEM fleece harnessing tape to clean it all up.
Notice the GPS antennae adapter in the upper right corner - Idatalink just released this adapter (sTO2) in Sept ‘16 and as far as I know is the only mfr that offers it for Toyotas. It plugs directly into the back of the Alpine and then into the Toyota GPS antennae connector in the dash. No need to build your own adapter or add an additional aftermarket antennae on top of the car.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

Wow, that's a lot of wires. I am thinking of adding the maestro in my wife's 2012 and using the Clarion NX605.

Once you get the maestro installed, I would be interested to know how difficult you thought it was to install/wire and if it retains all functions as advertised. The functions I am really curious about are the cars diagnostics like tire pressure, oil life remaining etc.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

brumledb said:


> Wow, that's a lot of wires. I am thinking of adding the maestro in my wife's 2012 and using the Clarion NX605.
> 
> Once you get the maestro installed, I would be interested to know how difficult you thought it was to install/wire and if it retains all functions as advertised. The functions I am really curious about are the cars diagnostics like tire pressure, oil life remaining etc.


I made a list of all the cars functions / options that the stock head displayed/controlled so that I can compare after it's installed. I plan on install tomorrow but you know how that goes 

On my vehicle, the oil life and tire pressures are on the auxillary screen between the gauges but from what I understand they will also be available on the Alpine's screen. And the maestro is supposed do display CEL codes too.

Wiring was pretty straight forward referencing the Maestro install guide, that you can download thier website, and the aftermarket head-unit's wiring diagram. I think if you have ever replaced a head-unit in the past then it shouldn't be all that difficult for you... just more wires. The only issue I had was I forgot to include the PAC TR1 bypass so I had to redo a few wires but that was my fault.

Now the only thing you may have an issue with is that I don't believe Maestro supports use on Clarion decks, at least they didn't the last time I looked on their website. I do believe the Clarion decks are supported by the Axxess brand though (Metra). Just go on Maestro's website and choose your vehicle and you will see which aftermarket brands/models are supported: iDatalink - Maestro - Maestro RR


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## What? (Jun 5, 2008)

"My Favorites" (the star on the bottom left) button is the most important button on the deck IMO. Once you set a few buttons up in there, many functions become a 2 button press operation instead of 15.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

What? said:


> "My Favorites" (the star on the bottom left) button is the most important button on the deck IMO. Once you set a few buttons up in there, many functions become a 2 button press operation instead of 15.


Yes, I like that feature, along with having the source buttons, which can be rearranged, right on the home audio screen. And a major feature that is important to me is that it has a dedicated mute hard button which the other brands did not have. The Kenwood DNX893S did not even have a mute button, hard or soft, anywhere. A steering wheel button had to be assigned or buy the wireless remote and use it to mute.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Just a quick update: I successfully installed the Alpine - I was really afraid I wouldn't be satisfied with how it looked / fit / felt. But I can say now that the fear was unwarranted as I'm very pleased with the results.

Right now it's powering the stock speakers with it's internal amp and there is quite an improvement in clarity, detail, dynamics, and stereo seperation that I immediately could detect over the stock head unit. I'm hearing instruments/details that I could not hear with the stock head unit no matter how I fiddled with it. I'm hearing sounds coming from only one side or the other that were just kind of all muddled together with the stock head unit.

When I get time, I will update this thread on all the steps I had to take in order to get it to fit right and on the Maestro's functionality.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Top notch fit!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

brumledb said:


> Wow, that's a lot of wires. I am thinking of adding the maestro in my wife's 2012 and using the Clarion NX605.
> 
> Once you get the maestro installed, I would be interested to know how difficult you thought it was to install/wire and if it retains all functions as advertised. The functions I am really curious about are the cars diagnostics like tire pressure, oil life remaining etc.


On my vehicle, tire pressure and oil life remaining information is displayed in the auxiliary screen between the main gauges. This has not changed. What has changed is now there is additional information available on the Alpine.

I made a short video showing the vehicle status & gauge screens. Notice the vehicle status screen TPMS shows both pressure and temperature. It also displays battery voltage, if any doors or the trunk is open, and display CEL codes if your vehicle is producing any.






^^^ Not sure how to have the Youtube video show right in this thread like I can on other forums?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Now that I've found some time to get working on this again, I wanted to update this on some other mods necessary to get this headunit in this car.

I had to use the factory steel head unit brackets as the bends in Metra brackets would not allow for the right mounting angle. I had to grind off a locating bump on each bracket and drill 2 additional holes in order to properly align the Alpine's face plate with the dash bezel.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Had to figure out where to stuff the wiring & Maestro without it interfering with anything


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

There were several areas in the dash that contained metal structures with sharp edges. I was concerned that they would be a wear point on all the wiring I had to make fit in the dash. So I took some Tesa fleece tape and covered all the sharp edges:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Took a photo of the pre-amp output connection color codes so I can reference it later when installing the amps in the back. The interconnect cables and remote turn on lead are currently coiled up and stored in void space in my console so I don't have to completely remove the stereo again in the future to route them to the back.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Because I knew it would be some time before I get the new speakers/amp in, I decided to take some quick RTA measurements, with an old Phonic PAA2, of the factory speakers and utilize the Alpine 9 band parametric to smooth out the FR as best I could. I set time delay for the driver's seat first before taking measurements. I sat in the car and took 5 samples from each side of my head and averaged them all together in order to get the before curve:










After EQ corrections:









EQ settings:









This week, I'm planning on fabricating custom mounting baffles to fit Morel Virtus 4" mids in the factory dash locations...


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## zebolsen (Aug 4, 2016)

Your photos recently posted do not seem to work. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

zebolsen said:


> Your photos recently posted do not seem to work.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Thanks for letting me know... just getting used to google photos and how to share them. I fixed the links and they should work now...


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Started working on the dash speakers. Here is the stock speaker:










Here is what I'm left with as a mounting surface:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Here's what I plan on making fit compared to the stock speaker


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Cut up some cardboard as a rough mounting baffle template:










Notice I had to trim some of the dash plastic back on the windshield side... This will be under the factory speaker grille so it will not be noticeable if I ever have to put it back to the stock in the future.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Transferred the cardboard template to 1/8" HDPE:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

My original plan was to use this 1/8" hdpe as the actual baffle... so I used the Morel mounting ring as a template to flush trim a perfect fit circle in the hdpe baffle using my homemade router table. Used 3m double sided mounting tape to hold in place:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Speaker fit just about perfect into the baffle:











And the baffle fit just about perfect into the dash:











BUT... the speaker and baffle together did not fit in the dash.... and at only 1/8" thick & considering the thin parts around the speaker opening; the baffle was a little too flimsy for my liking... So....


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Don't you hate how OEM make openings only big enough to fit their weak speakers. Almost every solution requires cutting out the opening or sacrificing speaker size. I'm liking the skill shown here so I'm sure you'll come up with something, just noticed the limitations you are fighting.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

schmiddr2 said:


> Don't you hate how OEM make openings only big enough to fit their weak speakers. Almost every solution requires cutting out the opening or sacrificing speaker size. I'm liking the skill shown here so I'm sure you'll come up with something, just noticed the limitations you are fighting.


Thanks for the encouragement! Just about every component I'm using, including the headunit (but that was my decision), is requiring some sort of modification. Even if I were to use some 3 - 3.5" speakers in the dash, like Crutchfield recommends, I would still need a baffle, to keep the rear wave from the front wave, which the stock mounting provision does not provide.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

My first thought was to try some 1/2" mdf but determined that would make it just about impossible to get the stock grill back on (If I decide to use it).
I determined that I would have enough extra 3/8" HDPE I plan on using in the door baffles to cut out 3 of these dash baffles: 2 to actually use and 1 to use as a prototype/fitting guinea pig.

Rough cut the prototype on the scroll saw:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Cleaned it up with flush cut bit & straight edge which left burr/flash :










Deburred with a utility knife:


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

wow, thats looking great! i have a 2013 camry and the similarities are uncanny. the dash configuration might be slightly different but similar styling. The tweeter location and mount seems to be exact. 

Im gonna be watching to see what else goes into this install.

which PG amp is that? My next install will include a pair of modern PG elite amps that ive already upgraded and customized.


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## Gibberish (Feb 24, 2016)

well just go ahead and make another set and send those bad boys my way!!!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

vwdave said:


> wow, thats looking great! i have a 2013 camry and the similarities are uncanny. the dash configuration might be slightly different but similar styling. The tweeter location and mount seems to be exact.
> 
> Im gonna be watching to see what else goes into this install.
> 
> which PG amp is that? My next install will include a pair of modern PG elite amps that ive already upgraded and customized.


Thanks for the feedback. Yes, there is a lot of similarities with the interiors of the 2012-14 and the 2015+. Do you have any photos of your camry install anywhere on the forums?... might give me some ideas 

That is a PG TI2 1600.5 although I may be trying something else out first while waiting to get the subs installed.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Gibberish said:


> well just go ahead and make another set and send those bad boys my way!!!


Haha, down boy!... Not sure these baffles will even work out yet. Will hopefully have some time this holiday weekend to get them finished up. If they do work out to my standards though, I may consider a little side job


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## Royboyproductions (Dec 18, 2016)

Truthunter said:


> Haha, down boy!... Not sure these baffles will even work out yet. Will hopefully have some time this holiday weekend to get them finished up. If they do work out to my standards though, I may consider a little side job


I have a 2012 SE and I'd be interested in some pre-built baffles. I haven't gotten into mine yet but with just pulling the grills it looks like exactly the same speaker locations.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Nice work that you have shown so far. That Alpine DD install looks great, looking forward to seeing how your build progresses. Keep it up!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

MoparMike said:


> Nice work that you have shown so far. That Alpine DD install looks great, looking forward to seeing how your build progresses. Keep it up!


Thanks for the encouragement.
Haven't been able to do much on this lately as my wife's 99yr old grandmother, whom she is a caretaker for in our home, was in the hospital for 10 days. We really didn't think she was going to make it. We spent several over nights in the hospital thinking she could pass at any moment but she miraculously pulled through and came back home this weekend. Hopefully things will soon get back to normal around here and I can get back in the garage soon.


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## Royboyproductions (Dec 18, 2016)

Truthunter said:


> Thanks for the encouragement.
> Haven't been able to do much on this lately as my wife's 99yr old grandmother, whom she is a caretaker for in our home, was in the hospital for 10 days. We really didn't think she was going to make it. We spent several over nights in the hospital thinking she could pass at any moment but she miraculously pulled through and came back home this weekend. Hopefully things will soon get back to normal around here and I can get back in the garage soon.


Take care of the important stuff, hope she feels better soon.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks Royboy, she is actually improving everyday.

Was able to work more on this last night. Finished up a prototype baffle for the dash. Learned some things doing so and will incorporate what I learned into the baffles I will actually use for a better fit.

Need to decide a way to secure the baffle to the dash. Was considering the 3m double sided tape that I've been using for holding down templates when routing. It's actually rated to hold up to 5lbs per linear inch, removes clean without residue and I feel would seal & act as a decoupler also. It is a little thick though, about 1/16", and I need all the height clearance I can get to get the stock grill to fit. Maybe a couple of machine screws and either riv-nuts or hex nuts from the bottom. Riv-nuts would require a clearance bore on the back side of the baffle. Would still need something to seal and decouple the baffle in either case... possibly use some clear silicone

Here's the baffle sitting in the dash by itself:











Had to use this router bit to cut relief slots on the ID of the baffle. These Morel mids mount with spring clips that will snap into these reliefs. Baffle is upside down in this photo:











Here is the mid snapped in place. Need to decide on how to seal the speaker to the baffle... maybe just a thin bead of clear silicone.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Royboyproductions said:


> I have a 2012 SE and I'd be interested in some pre-built baffles. I haven't gotten into mine yet but with just pulling the grills it looks like exactly the same speaker locations.


Yes the 2012 I believe has the exact same dash speaker mounting.
There is some plastic on the dash speaker opening that needed to be trimmed back for these baffles/speakers to fit. This trimmed plastic will not be visible once the factory grills are back on. And the grills themselves are going to need to be trimmed and opened up so as not to block energy from the larger diameter driver.
After really considering it and because of these necessary modifications, I don't think I would be comfortable supplying these baffles to others. I will point you to http://tacotunes.com/ though... they have adapters that will fit these dash openings to accommodate up to a 2.5" mid. m249saw has a photo of them installed in his Tundra with some Audiofrog GB25s here: m294saw Tundra Build Log


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## Royboyproductions (Dec 18, 2016)

I hear ya, but I see that what I want to do looks to be possible. I'd like to put a 4" Morel Inegra 402 up there, so now I have my mind set on it.  I might look into modding the grill to act as the baffle and mount from the top side like in that thread. Might be easier than making it all fit behind the stock grill then spending a few hours with the drill press and a tiny bit opening the grills up. But it wouldn't look as clean as what you're doing. Thanks for the inspiration!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Royboyproductions said:


> I hear ya, but I see that what I want to do looks to be possible. I'd like to put a 4" Morel Inegra 402 up there, so now I have my mind set on it.  I might look into modding the grill to act as the baffle and mount from the top side like in that thread. Might be easier than making it all fit behind the stock grill then spending a few hours with the drill press and a tiny bit opening the grills up. But it wouldn't look as clean as what you're doing. Thanks for the inspiration!


Cool, glad I could inspire you. I had the same idea with the Morel Integra up there but decided to go with the separates.

Actually, I think I saw someone selling Xtant 2.4i 4" point source drivers in the for sale section. They are basically the last generation Morel Integra Ovation just rebranded. They would be much cheaper than buying new Morel Hybrid Integras. I have been considering getting them but figured let me install what I already have before I start changing things and collecting more equipment... I can definately see how people can get caught up in that and spend a whole ton of money before actually getting something working :uhoh:


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

Royboyproductions said:


> I hear ya, but I see that what I want to do looks to be possible. I'd like to put a 4" Morel Inegra 402 up there, so now I have my mind set on it.  I might look into modding the grill to act as the baffle and mount from the top side like in that thread. Might be easier than making it all fit behind the stock grill then spending a few hours with the drill press and a tiny bit opening the grills up. But it wouldn't look as clean as what you're doing. Thanks for the inspiration!


I wouldn't recommend using a point source in the factory location. My wife has a 2012 and this was my experience using the Illusion C3cx in the stock location.

What could be causing this giant null?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

brumledb said:


> I wouldn't recommend using a point source in the factory location. My wife has a 2012 and this was my experience using the Illusion C3cx in the stock location.
> 
> What could be causing this giant null?


Must of missed your thread. Thanks for bringing it up here... very good information for us Gen7 Camry people.


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## Royboyproductions (Dec 18, 2016)

brumledb said:


> I wouldn't recommend using a point source in the factory location. My wife has a 2012 and this was my experience using the Illusion C3cx in the stock location.


Well... that's disheartening. So much for a stealthy install. I really don't want to get into building big pods anywhere. I did my time with people destroying my kick panels and the speakers in them 15 years ago, not looking to go that route and I'm reluctant to do anything on the pillars in a meager daily that will be driven for another 160k then sold. Back to the drawing board. Thanks for the heads up though.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Royboyproductions said:


> Well... that's disheartening. So much for a stealthy install. I really don't want to get into building big pods anywhere. I did my time with people destroying my kick panels and the speakers in them 15 years ago, not looking to go that route and I'm reluctant to do anything on the pillars in a meager daily that will be driven for another 160k then sold. Back to the drawing board. Thanks for the heads up though.


Depending on the frequency you want to xo, you dont need to have kicks that stick out or are aimed on axis. You can gave them flush in your kicks aimed at the opposite kick panel and still get 3-4khz extension











Pic stolen from a recent build I saw on here but I wonder if a wave guide wouldnt help.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Fab'd up both permanent dash speaker baffles. Didn't install them yet because I want to wait until I have everything else installed otherwise I be without tunes for a while. So still running the stock speakers for now.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Took apart the passenger door to start the NVH reduction process.

Here's how it looks with the trim panel removed:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Need more light so I built this frankenlight stand. Was tempted to buy a $80 LED work light stand but decided to spend just $40 on 4 brooding lamp fixtures & 4 100w equivalent cfl bulbs and attach them to an old camera tripod I haven't used in years. Ended up with 6400 lumens compared to the 3000 lumens the LED light stand would of provided.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Was pleasantly surprised to find these semi rigid molded panels plugging the large holes in the inner door skin. I'm thinking of maybe adding some aluminum angle cross bracing with some foam blocks behind them over these panels to make them more rigid and sealing the edges with some clear silicone. Does anybody know if they make a silicone like caulk that does not adhere to what it's applied to so it can be removed easily?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I'll be using products from sound deadener showdown. Starting with butyl rope and cld:











Butyl robe between the outer door skin and crash bars:




















Covered the butyl with aluminum foil to prevent debris from building up on it and collecting moisture:











CLD installed about ~40% coverage on the outer door skin, a lot less on the inner skin as it really didn't resonate much I guess from all the bends in it:


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Looks like a well designed door. What is the cutout size of the speaker opening?


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

That's what I like about Toyotas,just about all models come with 6x9's.Fitment for aftermarket 6x9's or even an 8" are endless.Unlike Hondas with their pathetic speaker cut outs from the factory


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

schmiddr2 said:


> Looks like a well designed door. What is the cutout size of the speaker opening?


The cutout measures ~ 7 x 10". There is 2" clearance from the inner skin mounting surface to the window (when rolled down). And there is 1.75" clearance between the mounting surface and the backside of the trim panel speaker grill.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Small update:
Dropped my Craftsman router and bent the spindle slightly which caused way too much run-out to use safely especially with my new longer 1/2" trim bit. Ordered a new Bosch fixed/plunge combo pack. Runs way quieter and smoother than the Craftman ever did and the depth adjustment & clamp mechanism are much more substantial. Will finish fabbing HDPE door baffles soon...

Meanwhile ran speaker wire through the factory door boot. It had quite a bit of extra room and the 14awg Stinger Pro speaker wire went right through, using a small fish tape, with no need for any lube.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Stock door speaker next to new one. Toyota uses some comparably large woofers than other vehicles I've messed with. Problem is look at that motor - they call it green technology


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I was thinking of using Tacotune's baffles as they have ones that would work with 6.5" drivers that I could of enlarged the cutout but I need something that provided more depth. Tacotunes only provide 3/4" and I need 1-3/8".

I decided to just build baffles from scratch out of some 1" and 3/8" HDPE that I would stack to get the depth I need.

I do not have a circle jig so I took the grill ring that came with the JLs and use it as a template. Problem is the ID of the grill ring is 1/4" larger than the required mounting cutout for the driver. So I bought a Whiteside bearing set that fit the Freud 1/2" trim bit that I had so I could offset the cuts.











Rough cut the 3/8" HDPE on the scroll saw. I found that a skip tooth blade (not pictured) worked best for this (out of the blades I have). Wish I would have experimented with different blades, and found this out, before I started cutting the dash baffles.











Grill ring temp screwed to the mounting ring to hold in place while routing:











Because the grill ring had a slight bevel on OD I had to use 5/8" bearing to get the OD I was after. At this point I also learned about using a pilot pin and built my own out of a scrap piece of 3/4" PVC pipe I had laying around. Definitely felt like it added an extra measure of control and safety.











Used the 3/4" bearing to cut out the ID of the baffle to give me the extra 1/4" I needed. Ended up with two perfectly round mounting rings:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Originally planned to use the stock speaker basket/baffle as a template to cut out a new mounting baffle. Problem is the mounting tab profile I need is in the middle not on an end I could just lay on a flat surface and I didn't want to destroy them. The other problem is that the stock baffle only overlaps the steel door mounting surface only by about 1/4" and I felt I needed more surface than that for a gasket.

So after measuring the stock baffle with a set of 18" calipers, I drafted a larger baffle layout in ACAD. Printed it full scale, cut it out and traced it onto 1" HDPE. Rough cut the baffle with the scroll saw. Then I used a combination of a straight edge, the 3/8" mounting ring I just fabbed, and the bell end of a piece of 1" PVC conduit to use as templates to flush trim the baffle out.





























For the ID cut I used the 3\8" mounting ring and the 3/4" bearing on the router. I figured the extra meat would provide additional rigidity and the 3/8" spacer allowed for the extra clearance to do so.











Why am I using Red HDPE? Well I found a seller on Amazon was liquidating his stock and it was half the price of any other color at the time.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I used the grill ring to locate and drill the driver mounting holes in both mounting ring and baffle. Used a drill press to ensure all the holes were straight through and not skewed.

Here is the hardware I plan on using to mount everything up. All stainless steel: M6x40 flanged button head cap screws, Nylock nuts and washers to mount the baffle to the door. And M4x35 button head cap screws, washer, and M4 press fit threaded hex inserts to mount the driver, mounting ring and baffle together.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Really really nice work!...
I got rid of my entire system when I traded the '10 Camry...
Itch is getting worse lately....
I now have the '16 xle 4cyl .... this is quite motivating...
Seems all around better than the 10 was.
Sub'd! 
:snacks:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Really really nice work!...
> I got rid of my entire system when I traded the '10 Camry...
> Itch is getting worse lately....
> I now have the '16 xle 4cyl .... this is quite motivating...
> ...


Thank you.
Glad I can be a motivator... actually you posting this motivates me also... so thank you.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Counter bored the back of the baffle with a 15/64" bit and hammered in the threaded inserts:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Baffle test fitted to door:











Now with spacer ring and driver:





























Well it clears the window but will it clear the door panel? From my calculations it should but will be close and I will likely need to shave off the gasket contact ring on the back of the door panel but I won't know for sure until I'm ready to put the door panel back on. But for now, I'm going to focus on reinforcing those molded plugs that cover up the large holes in the door skin and lining the door with MLV/CCF...


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Soooo.... any specific plans for the bottom end?... I had two IB 15's but by looking at the newer Camry it seems too low below the rear window for 15's straight up....

Doors came out very clean.. I never thought of using a good dense plastic.... 
I too was really focused on stealthiness... in fact two places I lived in had multi break ins in cars and my Camry sat there innocently amongst them....


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

My tentative plan for the bottom end is 2x 12" IB firing up through the rear deck. I first heard an IB config like that back in the mid 90's and really liked it.

I'd like to make it to some gtgs this year and hopefully get to listen to some different IB setups to help me decide a direction to go with subs.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

I was really happy with my IB setup...
2 15's firing backwards to put the magnets in the area behind the seats...so with the carpet grill it was an empty trunk.
It was crazy efficient, sounded very clean... only down fall seemed to be it didnt have that super heavy hitting authority like an enclosure has.... but the good out weighed the bad by far.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> I was really happy with my IB setup...
> 2 15's firing backwards to put the magnets in the area behind the seats...so with the carpet grill it was an empty trunk.
> It was crazy efficient, sounded very clean... only down fall seemed to be it didnt have that super heavy hitting authority like an enclosure has.... but the good out weighed the bad by far.


Thanks for the input. Was it a wedge wall that incorporated the rear deck or just parallel to the back seat?


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

I put them straight up but to clear the metal beam and avoid hitting the seats they were practically touching the bottom of the trunk and hitting the top cross beam at the same time... the baskets on the Acoustic Elegance speakers are very wide.
Sorry the pics don't show better on the way I attached the plate to the car.
It was bolted to that cross beam above the through hole and then I put a frame along the fender wells and across the bottom...( semi visible)...


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks for the photos!
Was the rear deck sealed up?


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Yes... NIGHT AND DAY difference when I sealed the 6x9 holes!
I just cut out some 1/4" mdf and used dynamat on the back and some dense foam on the face that faces the deck...( factory speaker bolts)


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Yes... NIGHT AND DAY difference when I sealed the 6x9 holes!
> I just cut out some 1/4" mdf and used dynamat on the back and some dense foam on the face that faces the deck...( factory speaker bolts)


And can you comment on the performance difference between when the seat backs were down versus up? Did you modify the seat backs any?


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Well....
The seats in the last one were cloth... but still fairly dense.
I actually for most of my stereo time had an MS-8 and always tuned with the seats up.
When I lowered them you definitely could hear the difference but in my case it was just real loose and boomy sounding. With the subs crossed at 80 (or lower) it just worked.
I am guessing the Pleather will be a little more of an obstacle but frequencies that low didn't seem too hindered by the seats.
If I had to keep my install non destructive... same as I had...
If I wanted over the top fun/cool....(and could cut up the car)
I would put subs somehow in the rear tray with magnets up and visible like headrests.
Saw it in an audi once and it was pretty badass.... nothin stealth about it tho... lol
Not sure if that helps any....


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Never modified the seats.
Also never tuned with the seats down... Since I'd never drive around that way I just never tried it.


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## kmatthews8 (Aug 9, 2010)

Any updates?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I've been working on this on/off here and there including some redo work. Really going slower than I anticipated but I guess it should be expected with life's responsibilities.

Since I will be installing a continous blanket of MLV/CCF under the door panel trim, I had to remove these reinforcement blocks from the door panel. These blocks basically put pressure on the molded plugs which covered the large openings on the inner door skin to keep them in place. They broke the plane of the inner door skin.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I planned on installing galv steel sheet over the molded factory hole plugs and filling the void in between with some expanding foam to reinforce them and stop them from vibrating. Silicone caulk was used to seal the plugs. Then I lined the surface with plastic grocery bags so as to be able to remove the foam from the plugs in the future if needed and to keep the surrounding area clean. Fabbed up some galv steel covers and drilled holes in them as injection ports for the expanding foam. Screwed them on with stainless sheet metal screws into pre-drilled & prime/painted holes.

Silicone applied to molded plug where the edge of the inner skin seals against it:











Grocery bag lining











Galv sheet installed and expanding foam injected into voids











Now this all seamed like a good idea but it ended up not working like I had hoped. :annoyed:

The void was so air tight that the expanding foam never fully expanded or cured even after 4 days of waiting... and YES I shook the can well before application.
When I pulled off the galv sheets I was left with a gooey mess. Thankfully it removed easily (because of the grocery bags) from the molded plugs but I could not salvage the galv sheet so that part had to be redone.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Take TWO

Even though it is hard to see in the photos, the surface that molded plugs attach to have multiple compound curves. I decided to use a combination of different sized adhesive foam weather stripping and OCF blocks (cut from window a/c sealing kit) to take up the void between the molded hole plugs and galv sheet covers.











I cut new galv steel covers & adjusted them to let the wires/cables pass through as needed. The edges of the molded plugs decouple the galv sheet from the inner door skin for the most part. But I used CCF in other areas where the galv sheet would have been in direct contact with the inner door skin.

This worked out very well. The molded plugs are reinforced and have very little flex in them now. Everything is sealed up tight & solid.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Now that those gaping holes in the inner door skin are sealed up solid, I went through & got intimate with anything that could rattle under the door panel. I used Tesa tape as a decoupler anywhere a harness or connector clipped into the sheet metal. Any connector that had a little play when fully mated to its counterpart got tesa tape wrapped around it to eliminate the play. Any parts of the harnesses that I felt could vibrate against the inner door skin and make noise I wrapped with scrap pieces of packaging foam I had laying around & tesa tape.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Had to make some adjustments to the mounting baffle for door panel clearance.

Adjustments seen on left one. Notches for door panel clip clearance & milled about a 1/3" off one of the corners & put a round over on the front edges which allowed the door panel to fit better/easier.











My "dust collector" started vomiting so had to clean it out


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Cut some CCF for gasketing between door skin and mouting baffle


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Used the door panel to rough cut MLV barrier











Used the MLV to cut CCF. On & off with the door panel (too many times) to make necessary modifications so that it fit and ended up with this:


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Glad to see the progress!..

Is it just me or are some of the pics not showing up?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Photo links should work now... still getting acquainted with new pc and a different browser


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Yep! All there now 

Thanks!...

All looks great!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I know when buying the ZR800s that it was going to be a tight fit. And it is a tight fit for sure which required me to do some rework on my spacer rings and slight modification to the door panel.

After test fitting the door panel with the ZR800 installed, on the combine 1-3/8" baffle/spacer, I found the clearance to the door panel grill unsatisfactory.... only had about 1/8" between the peak of the surround and the grill.

I took some clay and stuck it on the window right behind where the ZR800 magnet sit. Lowered the window, reinstalled the speaker, removed it again and measured the thickness of the clay where the magnet had imprinted itself. It showed 11/64" clearance to the window with the window in its lowest possible position.

So with this information I determined I could drop the speaker into the door another 1/8" and gain that clearance to the door panel grill. So I fabbed up some 1/4" HDPE mounting rings to replace the 3/8" ones.




















Mounted to the door with CCF between mounting ring and baffle











So with this change, there was still only 1/4" clearance from the peak of the speaker surround to the door panel grill. That's still less than the rated 9mm xmax of the ZR800s. So I took a dremel to the back of the door panel grill area and was able to remove ~1/8" of material. So now I have about 3/8" (9.525mm) clearance which should be good.... I hope


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Finally got the passenger door back together this past weekend. What was that.... like 3 months :embarassed:

It's nice and solid now though... really has some heft to it and closes with a dead thud.

I will have to replace the panel trim clips though as I think they wore out from so many test fits. Found the best price on https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Toyota_Door_Panel_Retainer_With_Sealer_67773_0E020_p/a21795.htm
Only ~$15 shipped for bag of 25 clips... enough for 2.5 doors worth.

Few more photos

Sail panel fit too loosely for my tastes and figured it may be a rattle generator. So I lined it with some leftover 5lb weight carpet padding to decouple.




















Removed the window seal from the top of the trim panel. This allowed for much easier door panel installation. While at it I decided to add some CCF to the clips that hold it on the door panel to firm it up and prevent possible rattles.




















CLD to the flimsey parts of the door trim panel:











CCF decoupled the map/cupholder pocket:











Used scrap pieces of CCF and some OCF on any surface on the back of the trim panel that came in contact with the MLV barrier. Also put a block of carpet padding in the rear to reinforce the thin plastic section (previously where the foam spacer block resided).











CCF wrapped the open/lock cables to decouple & prevent them from smacking around in there:











Not really convinced this is necessary or effective but installed 9/16" thick rubber foam weather seal around midbass to direct energy through the grill:


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

I only did a layer of the Cascade Audio VB-2 on the inner door panel and some dynamat and black holes on the exterior and it worked well... can only imagine how well all your deadening will work.

I do have a question.... after putting the barrier etc is it difficult to get the door panel pressed back on correct? Any issues with the bulk of the stuff you used?

I have a BUNCH of materials to do the doors and floor but hesitate since I have never done a thorough floor treatment either for fear the carpet and trim wont lay down well.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

It IS very nice watching the same car as I have get done so I see and learn all the tricks before I even begin.

Thanks for the in depth pics/ details!
:beerchug:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> I only did a layer of the Cascade Audio VB-2 on the inner door panel and some dynamat and black holes on the exterior and it worked well... can only imagine how well all your deadening will work.


I've read in many places about the havoc these ZR800s can wreak on doors. 
So I'm trying to implement as many havoc prevention measures as I think possible within reason. Really focusing on decoupling any surface I feel can vibrate together to create noise.

As far as the material usage. I'm really just implementing what I learned on the SDS website. Though I see a lot of builds where the dampener coverage is a lot more than what I'm doing which makes me at times think I should have used more CLD. But honestly, with the amount that I used there really isn't much panel resonance occuring (using the ol' knuckle rapp test). For the outer door skin, I found just using butyl rope between the crash bars and skin made a tremendous difference. And with the CLD added I really don't think adding any more would make a difference.

That VB-2 stuff looks interesting... just read about it. Marketed as a dampener but the CAE website states "VB-2 is much more dense than flimsy plastic making it much more capable of blocking airborne sound that normally enters the vehicle via the doors. VB-2 also blocks speaker backwave and prevents an acoustical short circuit." I wonder how well it works as a barrier at only 0.29lb/sqft.




nextproject said:


> I do have a question.... after putting the barrier etc is it difficult to get the door panel pressed back on correct? Any issues with the bulk of the stuff you used?
> 
> I have a BUNCH of materials to do the doors and floor but hesitate since I have never done a thorough floor treatment either for fear the carpet and trim wont lay down well.


This is the first time I've used MLV/CCF as a curtain like this in doors. It was definitely very frustrating test fitting the door panel over & over and making the necessary modifications for it to fit properly. And as I stated above, I'm sure the clips wore out as they seam to pop so much easier now. They are on order and will get replaced when they arrive. I've learned things doing the passenger door that I think will help me get the drivers door done quicker though.

I only bought enough materials to do the 4 doors as I feel this is where most of the road/exterior noise comes through in this particular car. When removing my kick panel to run new wires into the door, I thought I saw a kind of an MLV material already bonded to the back of the carpet. And there is a MLV/Jute composite material covering the entire firewall. I'm pretty sure the V6 version of the Camry gets some extra NVH reduction attention than the I4 including a noise reducing windshield.

This car is comparatively quiet to begin with compared to others I've driven. The Accord was the worst for road noise IMO. Sonata/Optima were almost as quiet as the Camry but they are only available in I4 which I felt added some NVH that is just not there in a V6. The Legacy 3.6R was as quiet or possibly a little quieter than the Camry.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

I ordered everything but the MLV from SDS.... seems all logical what he says.
I am excited to try the whole treatment....

You will be fine....
Literally Just VB-2 and a little Dynamat made cars next to me (including full tractor trailers) almost inaudible... cross winds would push me with no noise as well...
I feel my new Camry is a noisy tin can BUT after reading your post and thinking about it.... maybe its being compared too much to my last deadened car... 
New car is a 2016 4 cyl XLE and old was 2010 4 Cyl base....

Here was my first attempt at doors...



















Instead of cutting that foam protrusion like I should have... I just got the Cascade hot and pushed the door panel into it....


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Next time I will use more heat gun and try to make it look painted like the cascade guys do on their posts...


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Did your 2010 have the molded plugs covering the large holes in the door inner skin? Have you looked inside the door of your 2016 yet? I wonder if the molded plugs are used in the 4cyl version...

In my car the foam block on the rear of the door trim panel basically put pressure on the lower molded plug. I felt that, in that configuration, the back wave of the speaker would push on the molded plug transferring that into the door panel... basically making the door trim panel act like a passive radiator. That is why I chose to remove the block and cover the molded plug over with sheet metal... decoupling the whole thing & adding rigidity to the molded plug so it wouldn't vibrate.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Yeah.... Id say your suspicion of the transfer of energy would have definitely happened...
Good call....

My 2010 did not have those plugs... it was just the pinkish plastic sheet with that black tacky line around the edge...
I never thought about the V6 having more door treatments than mine... maybe...
If I pull the panel I will let you know....
It was funny (sorry no pics) that the plastic sheet had a molded pocket for that foam block.....
Here it is (wires moved and plastic pulled (you can see the little bit of door with the sheeting)


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

My car had that vapor barrier with the black adhesive too. I forgot to mention how I removed that black adhesive. I tried dabbing it off with butyl rope, like what the SDS site says, but that didn't work well at all for me. I found scraping it off with a waxed plastic spackling knife worked the best. Basically just applied some car wax to it which prevented the adhesive from sticking to it. I was able to take large chunks of adhesive off per swipe. Any left over residual wiped right off with a rag soaked in mineral spirits. Took like 10 minutes to completely remove it all.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Great idea with the wax/plastic putty knives!...... next time I hope to have more time and patience for the little details.... when i did the Camry it was our only car and I had to pretty much have it back together and working again every day.... definitely cramps the heavier projects...
Will remember that trick for sure


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Received the door clips this weekend. Replaced 7 of them along the outside edge of the trim panel. The original clips where definitely worn; If I looked at the door trim wrong way, one of them would pop. Now with the new clips, the door trim panel clips in tight.

Any of you with 2012+ Camrys out there need to know not to give the dealer or somebody on ebay ~$2.50 per clip. I got a box of 25 for less than $15 from the website I linked above. These clips are the exact OEM replacement just in different packaging:




















Dissassembled the drivers door and started the NVH reduction process this weekend also...


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## Sub Sonic (Dec 17, 2014)

Truth - how reliable do you find the Maestro RR module and T02 wiring harness? Does it crash every so often (either the car computer or headunit)? Do you get any incorrect info on the headunit? How long has the Maestro unit been installed in the car? At this point, what factory settings are you missing, if any from the headunit change? (I know you gained some gauges etc, but did you lose anything?) Thanks.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Sub Sonic said:


> Truth - how reliable do you find the Maestro RR module and T02 wiring harness? Does it crash every so often (either the car computer or headunit)? Do you get any incorrect info on the headunit? How long has the Maestro unit been installed in the car? At this point, what factory settings are you missing, if any from the headunit change? (I know you gained some gauges etc, but did you lose anything?) Thanks.


I had more lockup issues with the stock Entune Premium headunit than I've had with the Alpine/Maestro combo 

I've had the Alpine/Maestro RR/T02 harness installed and operating since October 10, 2016. Not once has the Maestro RR or Alpine crashed or locked up.

As far as getting incorrect information on the headunit; I'm not quite sure what your referring to... Can you be more specific?

There was an issue, in the beginning, with erratic power on delay behavior. I worked with Idatalink, through their forum, and it ended up being one of the settings "Accy when Crank" was set wrong as the default. They immediately released a firmware update (v1.7) to correct this. I guess I was one of their unofficial beta-testers.

Here is a list of the functions that were lost:

1. Voice Commands:
The stock Entune Premium w/ Nav could be controlled by voice commands which is not supported by the Alpine. You would press the button on the steering wheel and say what you wanted to happen. This is really a function loss due to the Alpine and not the Maestro. Below is the list of things that could be accomplished with voice commands:
Turn on/off or change audio source and choose radio station/preset, artist/album/song
Navigation: Set destination, find a point of interest
Phone: Call someone (though this can still be accomplished through Siri/Andriod with compatible phone)
There may of been other functions that could be controlled by voice commands but I just never really used this feature much to find out. I took longer to accomplish things with voice command compared to just pushing buttons. To further clarify: It did not provide voice control of vehicle functions (lights,wipers, etc.), just Audio/Navigation/phone functions.

2. GraceNote information:
The stock Entune Premium w/Nav had GraceNote which recognized nearly any song/artist/album and displayed that information (& some generic photo of the artist) regardless of the source

3. Sirius XM:
The Alpine does not have built in XM tuner but is XM ready with additional module. I could care less because I rarely listened to XM & refuse to pay for the poor sound quality it provides. HD radio sounds better to me and is free.

4. Maintenance Records
The stock Entune Premium w/Nav gave you the ability to manually enter in records of service that was performed and manually set reminders for service in the future. This was completely separate from the maintenance required light and display in the cluster. I never used it as I keep a spreadsheet for all service performed.... And the dealer never enter information into it either when I went in for the 5K service.

5. Navigation promps/compass/current street & speed limit no longer display on the auxiliary screen in the center of the main gauge cluster. So the navigation tab on that aux screen is just always blank now. To clarify; there is not a part of the default screen display that is always blank - it's a tab that has to be scrolled to... so it's not really noticeable unless you scroll to that part of the auxiliary display screen. However, this information is of course displayed on the Alpine's Nav screen. 
I confirmed with ADS that it is not a limitation of the Maestro RR but rather it's a limitation of the Alpine. Apparently, only Kenwood supplies the data signals for this to occur... Alpine & Pioneer do not... but perhaps their newer models do.

6. Lost the ability to change the color theme of the auxiliary display between the gauges. Originally, 4 colors could be chosen for the factory radio & this display: Blue, Aqua, Yellow, Orange. Honestly, I always kept it blue(default) as I never liked any of the other colors. The blue just matches the gauges and other lighting better IMO.

7. Factory mic is not supported by Idatalink Maestro so you have to install the mic that comes with the aftermarket unit.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other specific features/settings your concerned about...


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Lots of rainy days recently provided some quality time in the garage to tackle the driver's door.

Deadened and wires pulled


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Partially ran wires for mid & tweet and terminated / mounted midbass


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

It's tiiiight but no interference :smug2:











Holes sealed and covered











CCF/MLV went in a lot faster and came out a lot neater in this door


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Everything looks great ! Every factory looking!! More pics


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Driver's door trim panel treatment











CCFd possible rattle generation areas











Foam bits to decouple trim from MLV











Saw someone mention this in another thread and thought it was a good idea... used tesa tape on door clip mounting... really locked them down




















Carpet padded the sail panel


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Fab'd up a simple z-bend bracket and mounted the fuse holder




















Plan on painting this bracket but just wanted to get it in for now for routing purposes.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Need to determine the best way to get the power cable into the cabin.

There are factory wire bundles running through grommets on both the passenger's side and driver's side of the firewall. The passenger side location looks to be much more accessible but I'm concerned running the power wire too close to the HVAC blower motor which would be very close on that side.

Anyone with a 7th Gen Camry want to chime in and share how they ran their power wire? It would be very much appreciated :blush:


Passengers side grommet:











Driver's Side grommet:


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Not sure if it exists on the 7th...
My 6th gen had a "knock out" looking plate where a clutch pedal so I drilled it out and went through at that spot... the carpet insulation was even cut as well.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

BTW, if anyone needs a set of 3/8" thick HDPE spacer rings for JL ZR800s shoot me a PM. I have no use for these anymore. They may fit other 8" woofers but that would have to be verified.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Ended up using the passenger side grommet for the power. Just clipped the nip and 4ga went through with a little dish soap no problem.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Ran passenger speaker wires, power and remote turn down passenger side


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Very nice!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Pre-amp cables ran thru center console then under driver's seat and then meets up with the driver's side speaker leads running down the driver's side. I wanted the keep them away from all the factory harness / fuse boxes / blower motors under the dash and in the kick panels.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Home made profile tracer











Cut, routed, carpeted and mounted amp rack. This is kinda of temporary... just wanted something quick and easy to get things up and running for the gtg this weekend in VA.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

What RCA cables are those? Stinger 6000s?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Wanted to take my time with the wiring to be all nice and neat but again for the sake of getting things ready for the weekend, I just kinda connected it all up and tried to make it look somewhat presentable.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Ground. Sanded first. 0ohms to battery negative cable.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

JayinMI said:


> What RCA cables are those? Stinger 6000s?


You got it! I chose them because they were reasonably priced shielded directional twisted pair.... and the 2ch set came with the Stinger 6000 4awg amp install kit.... just had to add the matching 4ch set... future planned dsp / 6ch amp


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Battery connections. Ends were tinned to prevent fraying in the fuse block.











Had to trim some of the plastic off the the inside of the positive terminal cover for it to fit properly











Used factory matching split loom from the fuse to the firewall


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Next moved to installing the mids/tweets

Dug out my Anderson Power Pole connectors from my RC Heli days:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Directly below where the mids will be sitting (in the stock tweeter locations) is hard plastic HVAC duct. Stuffed some leftover carpet padding in there... to maybe minimize reflections back up through the cone.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Installed the baffles I had cut several months ago using 3m clear mounting tape and sealed up minor gaps in the mating surfaces with weather stripping.











Applied that same highly compressible weather striping to the speaker mating surface and snapped them into place. Factory grills will need to be trimmed and wrapped in grill cloth but that will have to wait until after this weekend's gtg.
Temporarily mounted the tweets in the angle surface mount cups to the pillars with 3m clear mounting tape. Permanent plan is to have them in the sail panels but wanted to keep them close to the mids for now considering there is no discrete TA ability for them.... yet.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Missed some of the last updates. Looking good.

Fix the recent pics, not working.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

schmiddr2 said:


> Missed some of the last updates. Looking good.
> 
> Fix the recent pics, not working.


Yes, need to fix the pics but no "edit" button anymore. Can you fix them if I pm you the links?


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Got to listen to this on Saturday, great work and still hard to believe you have no DSP in there!! Can't wait to hear it again.


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## crackinhedz (May 5, 2013)

Ha! I did see your build log a while back and when listening to it this weekend it never dawned on me! 

I loved the beige interior and your car was actually pretty spotless, I was super jealous. 

Great work, can only imagine how it will be sounding at the next gtg.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

OMG. THIS IS YOUR CAR?!?!!?

I kept thinking in my head, where I do know that name? I never put the two together!!!!! Shat. I'm mad now. You did an amazing job with your install. I'm embarrassed you had to sit in mine ;P Wow. This is definitely one of those threads that gives you a reputation. Great work! I feel like a complete *******. I had a chance to hear it and didn't get around to it. :/ Gorgeous car and install...I know it sounded just as good


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks for the kind and encouraging words fellas 

No worries if you didn't get to listen this time around Robert... I was embarrassed myself having people listen to it... Stupid temp mounted tweeter on the driver side kept falling off the piller  And even though there is no external dsp yet, I hadn't even had a chance to adjust the TA or PEQ in the head unit before the meet. I was grateful that Scott adjusted the TA and semi centered the image up before anyone else got a listen but the tonality was all over the place :blush:

Ordering mic soon to start measuring with REW... my old PAA2 can only get me so far and it's clunky to use.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Well... Once you get it dialed in I know it'll be impressive... Can't wait 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Truthunter said:


> Thanks for the kind and encouraging words fellas
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I still think check tweeter and mid polarity. Just a hunch. But she did stage up very nice I thought. Really liked it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Babs said:


> I still think check tweeter and mid polarity. Just a hunch. But she did stage up very nice I thought. Really liked it.


I measured it up last night with the PAA2 and it had that large dip at ~1.6khz like we saw. So I switched polarity on both tweeters. Remeasured and found it had not helped. I think it is just a natural null of the cabin with the current speaker location configuration or something the passive networks are doing. I was able to use the Alpines PEQ to cut before it and a little after it and was able to smooth it out quite a bit. Still more things to try though...


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

You have some nice people posting in your build log which can surely get you on the right path with getting it sounding good for sure. And thanks for your help Truthunter, much appreciated


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Truthunter said:


> I measured it up last night with the PAA2 and it had that large dip at ~1.6khz like we saw. So I switched polarity on both tweeters. Remeasured and found it had not helped. I think it is just a natural null of the cabin with the current speaker location configuration or something the passive networks are doing. I was able to use the Alpines PEQ to cut before it and a little after it and was able to smooth it out quite a bit. Still more things to try though...


As a little birdie whispers in your ear, "DSP, DSP, DSP..." LOL

Kidding aside, I was thoroughly impressed with how your system sounded. I kept wanting to hear more tunes, but felt like I was hogging up all your time. Lol. I imagine it will be stellar when you get a DSP installed and tuned.

Thanks for the seat time.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Truthunter said:


> I measured it up last night with the PAA2 and it had that large dip at ~1.6khz like we saw. So I switched polarity on both tweeters. Remeasured and found it had not helped. I think it is just a natural null of the cabin with the current speaker location configuration or something the passive networks are doing. I was able to use the Alpines PEQ to cut before it and a little after it and was able to smooth it out quite a bit. Still more things to try though...


Given the wavelength of a full 1600hz cycle, I can see that.. Phase related then.. Some cancellations going on that's likely tweeter to mid placement.. Maybe the mid off the windshield with nulls, possibly timing issues between drivers.. The types of challenges that a passive crossover can't fix.



Weightless said:


> As a little birdie whispers in your ear, "DSP, DSP, DSP..." LOL


Tweet tweet!  










Even something as inexpensive as landing on a 1st gen Helix DSP would be a great great asset here for the above items. 

Imagine having REW pulling from a mic fixed at the head-rest, moving the TA sliders with tweeters linked together so you can push/pull tweeter timing without upsetting TA between the tweeters, or phase as well, adjustable in 11 deg increments. On screen you could watch the RTA response changes in real-time. I'd also play around with crossing those babies much higher than what you told me Morel has them passively crossed.. 3500hz possibly.

Sounded fabulous to me with massive MASSIVE potential. Awesome foundation.. I'm still in awe of how well you did with the door work.. Rock solid.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Weightless said:


> As a little birdie whispers in your ear, "DSP, DSP, DSP..." LOL





Babs said:


> Even something as inexpensive as landing on a 1st gen Helix DSP would be a great great asset here for the above items.


I agree with these guys :laugh:



Babs said:


> Sounded fabulous to me with massive MASSIVE potential. Awesome foundation.. I'm still in awe of how well you did with the door work.. Rock solid.


And especially with this, such a solid start.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Looks like the xover point for the Virtus passives is 2200hz: http://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Virtus-modified-spec.pdf

Wavelengths! Found a nice pdf for that: http://www.jdbsound.com/art/frequency%20wave%20length%20chart%202013.pdf

As Scott said, I think this null has more to do with the mid reflecting off the windshield, interaction with tweeter placement OR maybe the energy coming off the front edge of the mid cone interacting with the energy coming off the rear edge. Now I'm starting to understand the reason Jason has his mids positioned in his dash like he does :idea2: ... hrrmmmmm

Yes, a DSP is in my future... right brain says buy one now but left brain says wait till you understand more :argue:


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Truthunter said:


> Looks like the xover point for the Virtus passives is 2200hz: http://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Virtus-modified-spec.pdf
> 
> Wavelengths! Found a nice pdf for that: http://www.jdbsound.com/art/frequency%20wave%20length%20chart%202013.pdf
> 
> ...


Get one.. We'll get ya through it.  IMHO a Helix will have the fastest learning curve because the UI is so great. Just send it a good single left/right pair, get a feel for initial setup, and you'll be hooked. Start by protecting the tweeters and mids and initial channel verifications etc. Josiah Buwalda did a couple youtube vids on setting it up.. You can even play with the software in demo mode without having the actual DSP to get an idea.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Was reading back just to absorb the level of magnitude of effort and thought and good fabrication that went into all that stuff you don't see behind your door-cards. I need you to do my doors! Bravo Sir! Bravo!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

He did a fabulous job!



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

I agree. Based on my experience with having 8's in the doors, I was surprised that Ryan had zero vibration/buzzing issues. I was very impressed.

Honestly, there were a couple of cars there that had beefy MB in their doors with no vibration either.

Hmmmm, I need to rethink my strategy. lol


Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Babs said:


> Get one.. We'll get ya through it.  IMHO a Helix will have the fastest learning curve because the UI is so great. Just send it a good single left/right pair, get a feel for initial setup, and you'll be hooked. Start by protecting the tweeters and mids and initial channel verifications etc. Josiah Buwalda did a couple youtube vids on setting it up.. You can even play with the software in demo mode without having the actual DSP to get an idea.


Actually, to be honest, it’s not that I think I can’t handle it technically, but more that I really need to focus on some projects on the home front at this time of year. *I replaced a deck two years ago that still needs railings installed on the stairs and I have some other outdoor projects too. *If I get a DSP right now, I'll either spend all my time in my car and not get anything else done or it will sit in my closet for several months before I get time to install it. *I'll need another two channels of amplification too so that's a whole nother thing to consider. *(Fourthmeal's KS900.6 been dancing around in my right brain lately too :drunk




Babs said:


> Was reading back just to absorb the level of magnitude of effort and thought and good fabrication that went into all that stuff you don't see behind your door-cards. I need you to do my doors! Bravo Sir! Bravo!





I800C0LLECT said:


> He did a fabulous job!





Weightless said:


> I agree. Based on my experience with having 8's in the doors, I was surprised that Ryan had zero vibration/buzzing issues. I was very impressed.


Awww, stop it now 
The doors are solid but far from ideal: There is a rattle that makes itself known in the upper rear passenger door during heavy midbass hits... I think it's the door card clip(s) dancing around in their cradles as I didn't wrap them in tesa tape like I did on the driver's door. Also, the door cards themselves get moving a bit, albeit quietly, with lower frequencies... hopefully that will be reduced once those freq's are handled elsewhere. I also plan to stuff any empty space, between the MLV & card, with denim insulation once I'm back in the doors.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Last week I finally got around to tinkering around with REW. Took some RTA readings using non-correlated pink noise and the mic around the head method (spatial averaging?) and adjusted the 9 band PEQ built into the Alpine accordingly.

Blew my mind when I played music and listened to the difference. I had adjusted the eq before with and old phonic PAA2 but the details I was able to correct with REW made a night and day difference. The single most positive improvement to the sound in the this car in the last 5 months.

While making adjustments I quickly realized the need for more DSP power. And I have a terrible null at ~1.5khz that I believe is destructive reflections from the mid off the windshield. EQ doesn't touch it and neither does swapping tweeter polarity. I feel it affects the sense of presence in voices so to me it must be corrected....

Here are the results... Black is with flat eq and blue was after corrections :










The blue trace is what ya'll heard at the Gouldsboro PA GTG today.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Can't wait to have another listen at Ians if you are planning on going.

Any more thought about adding a sub?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Weightless said:


> Can't wait to have another listen at Ians if you are planning on going.
> 
> Any more thought about adding a sub?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


It's going to be hard to get to Ian's this fall but I'll try. I can say that with speaker break in and these minor adjustments I made, I feel it's definitely at another level then when you last listened to it 

I have lots of thoughts about sub(s)  but I would like to get my current gear tuned properly before adding another layer of difficulty...

BTW, picked this up at the Gouldboro PA GTG today


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

It's on!

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

honestly, i almost dont want you to put in that dsp. the car is definitely a feat considering how good it sounds with just 9 bands of mono eq, and only 4 channels of amplification with no sub.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

One of my favorite builds


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> honestly, i almost dont want you to put in that dsp. the car is definitely a feat considering how good it sounds with just 9 bands of mono eq, and only 4 channels of amplification with no sub.


Your right in a way... I'm really enjoying the sound right now and the simplicity of the setup. I think I'm going to wait to add this other level of complexity until after I take care of the install issues that need remedied.

Also, I want to make records of measurements of each driver individually and document the acoustic crossovers currently present. Record all the current PEQ/TA setting in the head-unit and gain levels... So when I do decide to add something new I will have it's current configuration documented so I can fall back on it if need be.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Truthunter said:


> It's going to be hard to get to Ian's this fall but I'll try.


You can do it! And with the DSP installed!! 24 days is plenty of time right? haha



SkizeR said:


> the car is definitely a feat considering how good it sounds with just 9 bands of mono eq, and only 4 channels of amplification with no sub.


Agree entirely, and I heard it before he did those latest adjustments using REW.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Did some experimenting with the mid driver positioning, at the advise of some veterans, to see if I can correct the terrible null at ~1.5khz due to destructive reflections off the windshield.

Temporarily positioned the mids on-axis, wedged between the dash and windshield with towels behinds them:











Also tried it with the mids temporarily tilted up on the windshield side about ~20-25deg so that the distance between the windshield and driver piston surface is lessened & at a different angle:











The results speak for themselves:
RED = original dash mount, GREEN = On axis, BLUE = Tilted toward cabin











I'm really surprised that just tilting the mids slightly like that made such a difference.... I really didn't expect it. Some eq work can bring down the humps in response.

So now I will be trying to figure out a way to permanently tilt the mids toward the cabin on a sealed baffle and make it look nice... I really don't want to get into glassing (I've never done it, I don't have any materials or tools for it, and I'm not really interested in learning it) so I'm going to try and come up with some other method :thinking:


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Theres a very good tuner out this way who has told me more than once to tilt the drivers up maybe parallel to the windshield but he was pretty firm to NOT tow them in toward each other.. maybe see what that does for imaging.
(I just dont have the equipment to experiment with that at the moment)


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Reducing the distance between the driver and windshield is always positive in my limited experience. Diffraction and reflections are always rearing their heads some how some way though. Really glad to see that measured response!


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I just looked at this build log. Man, I'm jealous of those ZR's and I really like the head unit installation. Very impressive build overall.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Good work man!! You've been busy. Ok there was an article I thought of here. Andy posted it on FB I think and if I had to find it, I'd be hard pressed to now.. but it was excellent. My takeaway from it was considering how larger drivers and smaller drivers work in terms of polar response and "beaming", you are better with mids on-axis even at the expense of tweeters being off axis.. So I would approach it with that in mind, reviewing how your mids perform more on-axis.. How they image, how they sound, how there response is, etc. The mids will be covering the more crucial regions. Man this car is gonna sound stellar. Was great to get to meet up at Ian's and get to hear it, and offer up what little I could.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

SQLnovice said:


> I just looked at this build log. Man, I'm jealous of those ZR's and I really like the head unit installation. Very impressive build overall.


Thanks Man! Very encouraging words 




Babs said:


> Good work man!! You've been busy. Ok there was an article I thought of here. Andy posted it on FB I think and if I had to find it, I'd be hard pressed to now.. but it was excellent. My takeaway from it was considering how larger drivers and smaller drivers work in terms of polar response and "beaming", you are better with mids on-axis even at the expense of tweeters being off axis.. So I would approach it with that in mind, reviewing how your mids perform more on-axis.. How they image, how they sound, how there response is, etc. The mids will be covering the more crucial regions. Man this car is gonna sound stellar. Was great to get to meet up at Ian's and get to hear it, and offer up what little I could.


Thanks Scott!

Actually I haven't really done much to it at all lately... too many other life responsibilities right now. But I do plan on having many changes ready for the spring meets... I'm grateful for a heated garage  ... And look forward to finally hearing your car in the Spring too 

I really enjoy reading Andy's tech articles in the ME-Mag and on the AFrog forums but I know he posts more on Facebook too which I don't use. Would be nice if that info could be available on the AFrog forums too.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Truthunter said:


> But I do plan on having many changes ready for the spring meets... I'm grateful for a heated garage  ... And look forward to finally hearing your car in the Spring too


Roll on Spring!! Can't wait to hear what changes you are working on. 



Truthunter said:


> I really enjoy reading Andy's tech articles in the ME-Mag and on the AFrog forums but I know he posts more on Facebook too which I don't use.


I am close to giving in and signing up for Facebook... so many things I keep reading about how something was on Facebook, or needing a Facebook to enter things etc.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I thought he did the write up on Facebook but here:
On-axis vs off-axis

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...om/forum/showthread.php?t=136438&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Started working on this again recently. Lot's of stuff to complete for the Spring meets.

Some new tools I got for Christmas:











Needed some more cld to treat other parts of the car. I emailed Don @ SDS to see if he had any b-stock CLD. He did and saved myself some cash on stuff that will never be seen. Actually, the B-Stock he sent me would likely pass for A-Stock elsewhere :thumbsup:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

So there are several changes/improvements I would like to get implemented:

One of those improvements is to tame the back wave energy within my doors as much as possible. The doors are already dampened and sealed very well. But with the amount of energy these ZR800s push into these doors, I felt the need to go further. After reading threads about using materials inside the doors to absorb energy and the positive result some have had I decided to do some research.

From what I've seen so far, those who do this usually use rigid fiberglass insulation; Either Owens Corning 703 or fiberglass ceiling tiles bought at the local home improvement store. But I also found someone using Roxul brand mineral wool in the doors.

After reviewing the published absorption coefficients, considering the costs, and reading about how each reacts with moisture, I decided 1" Roxul AFB would be the best choice for my application. I found atsacoustics.com had the best price/shipping for this particular material.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I really like those whiteside bits, excellent quality for the price.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Everything helps!...
Here's one other minor thing to add as well maybe...
A previous co worker (who was also an AES member) asked a speaker engineer (JBL maybe?) what he would personally do to a speaker to make it sound better if he were to change something/ hot rod it in some fashion....
his only answer was to put Sorbothane on the back of the magnet/ basket.
So maybe add that to the mix... ?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Everything helps!...
> Here's one other minor thing to add as well maybe...
> A previous co worker (who was also an AES member) asked a speaker engineer (JBL maybe?) what he would personally do to a speaker to make it sound better if he were to change something/ hot rod it in some fashion....
> his only answer was to put Sorbothane on the back of the magnet/ basket.
> So maybe add that to the mix... ?


I have to look into that... always like learning new things. Thanks!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

So I took a little different approach to installing the insulation panels in my doors then I have seen others do.

The Roxul is basically pretty much water resistant. Water basically beads right up and rolls off of it like a fresh waxed car. Even though this is the case I still decided to wrap it in plastic for a few reasons. One reason is that it kinda lets off a bunch of particles/fibers when it is agitated or handled. I figure it will be very much agitated by the sound energy in my doors and I don't want those particles/fibers building up in the bottom part of the my doors. The other reason I chose to wrap it in plastic is, from doing some research and discussing with others, I learned that the plastic actually improves the lower frequency absorption creating sort of a bass trap. Another reason I chose to wrap it was the plastic provides a better surface to adhere foil tape to install it. I chose 3.5mil plastic sheeting.

I chose Gorilla Clear Repair tape to tape up the plastic. This tape is made for outdoor use. I feel it will basically stand up to moisture and temperature changes better than just packaging tape.

My doors will allow 2" of insulation in most areas. Since the Roxul AFB sheet that I bought is 1" thick; it will need to be double layered. I decided to adhere those layers together with DAP Weldwood contact cement. I also chose to adhere the plastic to the Roxul with the same product. I figure it will keep the plastic taught and adhered against the insulation not allowing it to loosely flutter to the mid-bass frequencies. Also I theorize doing this will help with that bass trap effect also.

First I measured, cut and test fit cardboard templates:











Then I transferred those shapes to the Roxul AFB sheet and cut them out:


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Good choice Ryan. My next vehicle I will be going with the Roxul as well. For the plastic wrapping, I would go no thinner than 1 mil. Anything thinner tears too easy in my experience.


Nextproject,

Did he give you a reason as to why add the sorbothane? I'm guessing to absorb vibration from the basket, but how well would that attenuate them and at what frequencies is sorbothane effective, especially when it is not compressed? 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Now here is where I got a little experimental:

There was some left over MLF scraps from lining my doors last year. I figure why not use those scraps to layer in between the layers of Roxul. My theory is these pieces of MLV will vibrate basically turning the back-wave acoustical energy into heat with the 1" thick Roxul on each side of it acting to decouple/dissipate ... Sort of like the idea of the MLV layer in those Black-Hole tiles or $oundskins Pro 3in1.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Ha, You posted just as I hit reply. 

I had to double up on mine as well, but did not need to use adhesive. The plastic held it together well.

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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Weightless said:


> Nextproject,
> 
> Did he give you a reason as to why add the sorbothane? I'm guessing to absorb vibration from the basket, but how well would that attenuate them and at what frequencies is sorbothane effective, especially when it is not compressed?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


He did not. I think it was a quick story to put how much a little reflection off the hard surfaces of the speaker itself can effect the sound. 
Mike no longeer works here so unfortunately I can not ask him to elaborate.
Sorry


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Truthunter,

I have a similar Camry (2016 XLE 4 cyl)
This car is ridiculously loud on the highway....
how did all the sound insulation work out for road noise?.. 
happy with the amount of noise floor drop?

I am collecting material to deaden it (before even thinking about the stereo) but it really needs to be night and day for me to have the urge to start it.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Truthunter,
> 
> I have a similar Camry (2016 XLE 4 cyl)
> This car is ridiculously loud on the highway....
> ...


To be honest with you, I feel the road noise levels in the car from the factory were very reasonable. Much quieter then my previous Accord or my wife's Honda CR-V and quieter then the other cars I test drove (except the Legacy 3.6R) back before I bought it in 2015. The only acoustical treatments I have done so far is in the front doors. I honestly can't say just doing that made a large noticeable difference in road noise.

I've seen some chatter on the Toyotanation forums suggested that the Bridgestone tires from the factory where pretty poor and that the vehicles that have the Michelin tires (mine does) from the factory performed better all around including less road noise.

I also know the V6 version gets more sound isolation from the factory compared to the 4cyl including a noise reducing windshield. And have you looked under the carpet in your car yet? Mine has what appears to be an MLV type layer and a thick formed rubbery foam layer fused to carpet all the way around the vehicle. There is zero room to add anything additional under there with the exception of maybe under the front seats around where the heating ducts come through.

Otherwise, the only places I see room for improvement is the rear wheel wells behind the rear seatback and in the kick panels where the connector blocks reside: The plastic connector blocks pass through the interior sheet metal frame creating a passageway for noise to enter and there is no recycled denim insulation there either like there is on the rest of the firewall. I plan on lining the kick panels with MLV/CCF and stuffing the void behind the connector block with Ultratouch denim insulation. I also plan on stuffing any voids in and under the dash with denim insulation also. I've got six rolls of it waiting in the closet.


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## mzmtg (Dec 8, 2009)

nextproject said:


> He did not. I think it was a quick story to put how much a little reflection off the hard surfaces of the speaker itself can effect the sound.
> Mike no longeer works here so unfortunately I can not ask him to elaborate.
> Sorry


https://www.sorbothane.com/material-properties.aspx

See also: https://www.sorbothane.com/impact-of-shock-absorption.aspx

This little program is pretty good for helping to pick the right sorbothane product for your application:

https://www.sorbothane.com/engineering-design-guide.aspx


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Ok...Thanks!
All good info.
Yours must be quieter than mine.. Wife and I xan hardly carry a calm conversation on the freeway. Way louder than my 2010 CE Camry. Could be tires tho.. I will go out at lunch and see which I have out of curiosity. I have been following this theead since it stsrted but wasnt sure if you did the floor or not or if you noticed differences from what has been done so far.
I will lift the carpet too... theres no way (from what I hear) that mine has the insulation yours does... I almsot bought the v6 but they were rare and loaded.. wanted a non JBl version.. my windshield cracked already so I will be replacing it with the Insulated g6 version (cheap upgrade.. safelite wants 20.00 more for that one)
Will let you know what I see... and if I remove the door panel I will post a pic to compare vs the v6 doors.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Ok...Thanks!
> All good info.
> Yours must be quieter than mine.. Wife and I xan hardly carry a calm conversation on the freeway. Way louder than my 2010 CE Camry. Could be tires tho.. I will go out at lunch and see which I have out of curiosity. I have been following this theead since it stsrted but wasnt sure if you did the floor or not or if you noticed differences from what has been done so far.
> I will lift the carpet too... theres no way (from what I hear) that mine has the insulation yours does... I almsot bought the v6 but they were rare and loaded.. wanted a non JBl version.. my windshield cracked already so I will be replacing it with the Insulated g6 version (cheap upgrade.. safelite wants 20.00 more for that one)
> Will let you know what I see... and if I remove the door panel I will post a pic to compare vs the v6 doors.


Yeah, something has to be different here. Wife & I and passengers in the back seat can easily carry a normal volume level conversation while highway driving. Matter of fact, my sister-in-law was riding in the back seat the other week on a 60 mile trip and commented how quiet she thought the car was on the highway and she drives a C-Max hybrid.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Do you have some sort of decibel app on your phone?...
Would be curious to try the same one mine vs yours at a given speed.
i had my friend drive while I was stuffed in the trunk to find the infamous freeway speed trunk ratlle that plagues these cars... crazy it was the bumper cover / fender attachment point.. sooooo sounded like it was inside the car
Two napkins and all quiet now..(of course after 30k miles it took 5 minutes to fix)
Anyways... his unprovoked comment was "Your car is pretty loud inside"... 
he has an 06 v6 accord.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Do you have some sort of decibel app on your phone?...
> Would be curious to try the same one mine vs yours at a given speed.
> i had my friend drive while I was stuffed in the trunk to find the infamous freeway speed trunk ratlle that plagues these cars... crazy it was the bumper cover / fender attachment point.. sooooo sounded like it was inside the car
> Two napkins and all quiet now..(of course after 30k miles it took 5 minutes to fix)
> ...


No, I do not have a smart phone :blush:

I have not heard the trunk rattle your talking about either 

The only rattle (actually more of a creek) I've had is from the top center stack cover where the center speaker grill is. Small pieces of ccf wrapped about the base of the clips fixed that.

You know, I just thought of something: Camry's were built in two plants back then; the main Georgetown, Kentucky plant and also in the Lafayette Indiana Subaru Plant. Mine was made in Kentucky... where was your's made? Maybe could be the difference :huh:

Subaru to expand capacity by 100,000 at Indiana plant


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Vin says Kentucky
Tires are Bridgestone Touranzas
So maybe the tires are part of the problem


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

It's been a while and a lot has been completed... so time for some updates:

First I'll talk about the Roxul AFB insulation that I installed in the front passenger door. To recap from post # 168, MLV scrap was glued in between the layers of Roxul AFB before being wrapped and installed.

Here are some photos of it before sealing the doors back up:





























Also lined the inside of the door trim panel, where space allowed, with Ultratouch denim insulation. This is in addition to the CCF/MLV layer that was already between the inner skin and trim panel.











I planned on treating both front doors but with time constraints & other responsibilities I was only able to complete the passenger door before the Spring meets started.

That may prove fruitful because now, if time presents itself, I can do some comparative testing between the two front doors - maybe take impulse response measurements of just the midbass with the mic in the center of the car to see if there is any major differences in decay.

Though I have not done any specific comparative listening tests, the treated door does seem to present at least one advantage:
Recently, at Ian's (Naiku) meet in Virginia, while he was demo'g my car with me in the passenger seat; I noticed the passenger side mirror was hardly moving while the driver's side mirror was doing is usual blurry dance during some heavy midbass material. I pointed it out to Ian and we both agreed seeing the same results. I do remember the passenger side mirror doing the blurry dance pre-treatment... so this additional treatment does seem to be dissipating energy in the passenger door.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Well, I planned on updating this thread with a whole bunch of photos but I'm going to hold off for now considering the 9 months of content that has disappeared between post #155 & #156.

I'll update it if & when the site admin ever gets it figured out and all the missing content is restored...


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Looks like they fixed the missing post issues so here goes:

Removed the original amp board to start work on the trunk










Planned to mount the amps under the rear deck this time round.

Before:










Speakers and other unnecessary items removed. Also re-routed the back seat release cables higher up to make clearance for amp board (only driver's side cable relocated in photo but both were done).


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Cut 1/2" mdf blanks and some ccf decouplers to cover over the openings:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

3/4 mdf for amp mounting board. Reliefs cut for bolts & brackets under the rear deck. Through holes cut & rounded over for proper airflow to amp fans.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Lots of the pictures don't seem to be showing up.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Notloudenuf said:


> Lots of the pictures don't seem to be showing up.


I'm using google photos. I link each photo the same way but for some reason some don't show up 

Just re-linked them all... let me know if they are showing on your end now..


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

1/2" mdf for mounting the processor on the right side of the trunk. Hot glued spacers/washers to the rear to properly space the board off the sheetmetal. Covered the mounting boards in carpet.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

They showed up that time. 

Looking good!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Mounted the amp & processor boards using M6 rivnuts and M6 Socket Head Cap Screws. Boards were counter bored so the heads of the screws are flush. Pieces of Dynaliner from a 20 year old roll are stuffed in between the boards and sheetmetal to dampen any panel resonances.





























Wired up:


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Loving the build, looking forward to seeing more!


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Subscribed. Really interested to see what happens with the mids and tweeters. I installed some 3's in my stock locations but abandoned them due to the reflection issue and went with some good coax because of the recurring "Nope, I'm not doing fab in this car. Just a simple stock location upgrade." And.....we all know how that goes.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bmiller1 said:


> Subscribed. Really interested to see what happens with the mids and tweeters. I installed some 3's in my stock locations but abandoned them due to the reflection issue and went with some good coax because of the recurring "Nope, I'm not doing fab in this car. Just a simple stock location upgrade." And.....we all know how that goes.


Alright. Now that I'm starting to feel better after a nasty bout with Tonsillitis, I'll post some photos of the dash speaker mounting solution for you. 

I ended up deciding to use the stock grill as a base to create a tilted pod. I started by modeling mounting rings in AutoCAD and had my machinist friend at work fab them out of steel. These rings were designed to have a minimal O.D. and a thickness made to accept the flangeless mounting clips of the Morels. MDF would not work in this application as it would be too flimsy at these thin dimensions for my tastes. I also designed in a slot around the perimeter to create additional area for resin to hold on to.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Cut the center of the grills out with a hot knife:











And hot glued the rings into a position that gets the mid more on-axis and closer to the windshield to move the null frequency up out of the pass band. At the same time I needed take into consideration proper mounting depth clearance and the ability to actually be able to install/uninstall without much hassle:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Now I've never messed with fiber-glassing before and I didn't really want to go out and buy all the materials and learn how to do it... and likely screw it up and have to start over. I just didn't have the time for all that. So I decided to farm this job out.

I met a local enthusiast last fall at a meet in PA that I kept in touch with. He works at a shop down in NYC and is experienced with this type of fab work. So I ended up having him finish these "pods" off for me.

A couple in progress pix he sent me:


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Nice!
What you're doing with the dash is almost identical to what I am working out in my head to do!... 
I like it!... only difference is I have point sources planned....
So nice to see what you're doing and what obstacles on the same car.
:snacks:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Initially, I had planned to have these pods wraped in the same fabric the dash pad I planned to use was made with. But with poor availability and time constraints, we decided just to cover them in black suede.

They basically just snap into place just like the factory grill. I lined the backside with some very compressible weather seal to help seal it to the dash. I also stuffed every crevice with foam made for sealing off a window A/C and lined the inside of the dash with dynaliner to hopefully reduce the sound waves from bouncing around below the dash.




















And this is how they sat for a few weeks while I pondered a way to make it more aesthetically pleasing:










As you can see above; the tweeters were relocated to the sail panels on the doors. They are just temporarily mounted with double sided moulding tape so that I can play with different aiming. I decided on the sails to widen the sound stage which was limited to within the pillars before. It worked and now the soundstage width is just beyond the pillars.


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Got it.... makes perfect sense... I will prob stick with simple and keep the point sources but width will probably suffer... I'm ok with that tho.
Just need to see what you do for subs and my plans are complete... 
theres a guy not far from here that makes what appear to be good corner loaded sub boxes fiberglassed to blend well in the trunk... and keep the fold down seat... kind of tempted but my last 10" single bassform enclosure never impressed me... maybe a 12 on both sides(corners) will make a big difference.
Curious to see what you come up with!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

So again, my initial plan was to have the pods wrapped in the same material as the dash mat I had. Then I would cut & hem the corners of the dashmat where they meet up with the pods.

But after pondering for several weeks I decided on a slightly different route. I cut holes in the dash mat so the speakers would mount directly on top of the mat and the mat would cover over the pods.

First I positioned the dash mat on the dash and taped templates over where the speakers where located. Then I cut holes in the mat the exact dimension of the mounting holes in the pods.




















For some reason I only took photos of the passenger side but here is how it turned out:




















Now I still needed a way to finish it off and cover the speaker with some sort of grill. The grills that came with the Morels were too large for this application. But I came up with another 3D modeled solution that my machinist friend at work helped me with again. I'll post some photos of that tomorrow... too tired to try to find and organize those photos right now... so stay tuned!


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Can't go wrong with XXK and Morel. I don't know if you had time to listen to it yet but I'm interested to hear if there's still a reflection issue with that mid being so close to the glass (even though angled). I glassed my grilles and then am mounting pods on top more on axis. Good looking work, man.


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## audiophile25 (Oct 5, 2008)

looks great my friend! I can't wait to hear it.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bmiller1 said:


> Can't go wrong with XXK and Morel. I don't know if you had time to listen to it yet but I'm interested to hear if there's still a reflection issue with that mid being so close to the glass (even though angled). I glassed my grilles and then am mounting pods on top more on axis. Good looking work, man.


Yes XXK and Morels seem to be a special combination for sure 

I've had these mids mounted like this since the beginning of April. It's still not ideal but the large null I had at 1.5k is completely gone on the left side and mostly gone on the right side. Not sure if your vehicles is the same but the factory dash speaker locations in my vehicle differ in their distance from the windshield between left & right. The left location is actually about a 1/2 in closer (forward) to the windshield. The pods that were made with the factory grills are symmetrical. So the front edge of left mid is right up against the windshield and is about a 1/2" away from it on the right side. So the slight null I still have on the right side I attribute to the increased distance from the windshield.

With that said, I have had surprisingly good results scoring in the high 70s at two different MECA competitions in June 




audiophile25 said:


> looks great my friend! I can't wait to hear it.


Thank you Mike!

Not sure if your going to SVR... but if so I'll see you there and reserve some demo time for you


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Truthunter said:


> Not sure if your vehicles is the same but the factory dash speaker locations in my vehicle differ in their distance from the windshield between left & right.
> 
> With that said, I have had surprisingly good results scoring in the high 70s at two different MECA competitions in June


Nice!! Not sure about that speaker placement. It looked the same so I would assume so. I tried to avoid the issue altogether but, yours looks pretty fantastic.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

To finish the look off on these dash mids and to protect them from the sun I came up with custom machined 2-piece grill. Again, modeled in AutoCAD and machined by my friend at work.

Here is the bottom view. The left piece is made to fit over the flange of the Morels and the right piece nests on top of the left piece.











Here's a top view of them:











The top part gets wrapped with Mellotone grill cloth using Tesa 4965 double sided tape to keep it in place:


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Pretty sweet, man. I envy your resources.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Those are niiiice


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Lower trim ring fits over the Morel flange using a tiny piece of Mortite in three different places:











Then the grill ring nest into the lower trim ring... basically a friction fit:




















Sorry, this one came out kind of blurry:


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Looks great!... I really like the grills!
Looks VERY clean/tasteful!


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

I may have re think my corner pods plan after seeing this... way more subtle the way you did yours...


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Oh yeah, that looks great. Good work.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Hey Ryan,

This is Chris from Toyota-nation. I finally signed up to this fantastic forum to learn more as I build my system. I ran some numbers yesterday, and I’ve already got $2300+ spent, with a substantial amount wasted through changing my mind as I continue to learn.

I’m thinking of going with a full active 3 way system, and I’m really considering using the same tweets and mids that you did. I mean, you have basically the same car I do, so why should I mess with success? Of course I won’t have the exact same system as I bought the gs690’s and I likely won’t have a honking 15” sub either..

If I go this route, I’ll buy new/used Oem dash corner grilles and customize them similar to what you did.

So I’m wondering - if you were buying today in the same price range, would you still buy the Morel Virtus MW4’s for the mids and the Morel Virtus MT120 tweeters? As I said above, I’m thinking of buying both.

Edit - These Morel Hybrid 402 components are around the same price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOREL-HYBR...Ipt19TWdzu7G7nojjaAQ:sc:UPSGround!94510!US!-1

Also, how is your temporary Dayton DSP-408 working out? Would I be wasting my money with one of these, or should I just bite the bullet and get the miniDSP straight out of the gates?

If all goes well, I could wrap my system up with less than another $1k.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris12 said:


> Hey Ryan,
> 
> This is Chris from Toyota-nation. I finally signed up to this fantastic forum to learn more as I build my system. I ran some numbers yesterday, and I’ve already got $2300+ spent, with a substantial amount wasted through changing my mind as I continue to learn.
> 
> ...


Whao... just saw this reply... forum's not sending me notifications for some reason 

I really like the Morel set and have had quite good success with them. They are more on the smooth side so that needs to be considered. Other options may provide more articulate and detailed sound through the midrange & highs.

I see from your other thread that you picked up a pair of AF GS10 tweets. They are very good also.. I've heard a GS690/GS10 setup before in a vehicle and was surprised how well they sounded.

The GS690 plays happy up higher to meet a tweeter... whereas I had to use a mid to fill in the midrange that the JL ZR800s will not provide.

My recommendation would be to just run the GS690/GS10 for now in a two-way set up... Tweets on the dash under or on top of the factory grill. You can play around with location and aiming to see what provides better results.

Learn how to tune with that setup before trying to shoehorn a 4" in the dash like I did. You may be perfectly happy with it and would avoid all the setbacks & time that I went through. You can always add a mid later... Maybe AF will bring a GS series 2-3" mid to market in the future.

The Dayton DSP is working well for me and I really like the user interface over the MiniDSP. But the Mini 8x12 has much more processing power so I will likely switch back to that once Mini sends replacement boards out.

Hope that all helps. Post up a build log when you get started so we can follow along


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Thanks for the reply.

I’ll definitely post a build log once all my equipment arrives, I can’t wait.

You won’t believe it but I ended up buying a miniDSP c-DSP 6x8 at a great price (very close to what the Dayton DSP would have cost). Biggest downside for me with the mini is lack of Bluetooth functionality. But, the compatibility with macOS, REW, and the UMIK-1 being designed for it edged the mini up for me. I plan on pulling the trigger on the calibrated mic soon.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

*Your final amp location and what underfelt carpeting?*

Hey Ryan,

I’m currently re-thinking my original plan of mounting my amps under the drivers seat for multiple reasons.

Where did you ultimately end up mounting your amps? I know they were originally mounted where your sub is currently.

Also, where did you get the grey underfelt carpeting that you covered the mounting boards with?

Thanks in advance!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

The factory matching charcoal trunk lining carpet I bought from Miami Corporation: A21 Charcoal >>> https://www.miamicorp.com/default.aspx?page=item+detail&itemcode=A21&catlist=104&parent=2768

The amps are now mounted under the rear deck and they just fit. In a couple of locations the trunk lid torsion bars are literally 1-2mm away from contacting the amps when the trunk is closed:


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Ahh, that looks really good! Thanks for the source on the matching carpet.

For some reason in the owners manual for my JL XD 400/4 they explicitly state not to mount the amp upside down. This isn’t in the literature for my other JL amp, and I can’t figure out why this would be an issue.

I’ll need to email them to see what the deal is.

Thanks again!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris12 said:


> Ahh, that looks really good! Thanks for the source on the matching carpet.
> 
> For some reason in the owners manual for my JL XD 400/4 they explicitly state not to mount the amp upside down. This isn’t in the literature for my other JL amp, and I can’t figure out why this would be an issue.
> 
> ...


That JL XD400/4 is such a small amp... how about mounting it on the side like where my DSP is shown?


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Truthunter said:


> That JL XD400/4 is such a small amp... how about mounting it on the side like where my DSP is shown?


You know, I was trying to stay “stealth”, which mounting upside down on the rear deck would achieve (unless you stuck your head in the trunk).

But, I think you’re right I will look into mounting on the side of the trunk.

I’m having a mental battle with the whole amp relocation issue because I’ve already purchased appropriate wire lengths for mounting everything under the front seats. Oh well, overall the accessibility gained by mounting this stuff in the trunk will pay off later I’m sure.

Thanks again!


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Truthunter said:


> Initially, I had planned to have these pods wraped in the same fabric the dash pad I planned to use was made with. But with poor availability and time constraints, we decided just to cover them in black suede.
> 
> They basically just snap into place just like the factory grill. I lined the backside with some very compressible weather seal to help seal it to the dash. I also stuffed every crevice with foam made for sealing off a window A/C and lined the inside of the dash with dynaliner to hopefully reduce the sound waves from bouncing around below the dash.
> 
> ...


Hey Ryan,

Do you have any more detailed photos showing how you finally mounted the tweeters?

If so, I’d love to see it. My frog tweeters are about the same as your morels.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris12 said:


> Hey Ryan,
> 
> Do you have any more detailed photos showing how you finally mounted the tweeters?
> 
> If so, I’d love to see it. My frog tweeters are about the same as your morels.


Lol, my tweets have yet to be permanently mounted 

They are just sitting in the angle mounting cup (that came with the Morel set) which is held on to the sail panel using 3m molding mounting tape. I also added some hot glue around the base to help stabalize/adhere the angle cup to the sail panel better. It actually doesn't look that bad to me and I'm good with it for now... until I start playing with other locations/aiming


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Time for some more updates to this log.

Most of this work occurred this past spring but I just didn't have the motivation/time to make updates here :blush:

Did some deadening in the trunk to prepare for trunk baffle sub. I would say it ended up being 25-35% coverage using SDS CLD tiles. I didn't bother with any CLD on the wheel wells as they are already resonant free due to being multiple layers of formed steel with no flat unsupported surfaces left to vibrate.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Great Day! (That is a Southern expression of alarm and surprise). 

How did I miss this thread? Well, I’ve got some weekend reading to do!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Did a more in-depth job of deadening the trunk lid. I used butyl rope between any accessible gaps between the inner & outer skins. I also stuffed the void in the rear (behind the license plate & around the tail lights) with Roxul AFB. And any harness or cable that could vibrate against a hard surface was wrapped with OCF/Tesa Tape


Before:











Butyl rope & CLD installed:











Roxul installed:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Now for details on the Sub & it's installation:

I heard an IB setup way back in the mid '90s which I was enamored with and always wanted to try it for myself. I like that it saves space, requires less power, and effortlessly digs low.

I debated, for a while, whether to use a few 8"s or 10"s in the rear deck, two 12"s or a single 15" in a trunk baffle. After pondering the pro/cons of each configeration, I chose to go with a single 15" in a trunk baffle. Overall, I concluded that it would be the easiest and least expensive option for my particular vehicle and needs.

Then came time to choose a driver... After learning how to use WinISD, modeling a multitude of options, considering price, and reading reviews, I decided on a single Acoustic Elegance IB15AU-8. I ordered it from AE on Feb 12th and it arrived at my door on March 22nd.

Now on to the install. First was to create a rough cardboard template which then was transferred onto a piece of 3/4" mdf. Test fit - adjust - test fit - adjust.... until it fit the way I wanted it to. Cut second layer 3/4" mdf and temporarily screw it to the first one... test fit - adjust - test fit - adjust...

Here is what I ended up with:











From the front showing an aluminum angle which I would use to fasten the top of the baffle:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

There were some rather larger gaps between the wheel wells and the support "wings" which I attached the baffle to.

View from the front:











From the rear:











I decided to use duct seal to completely fill in and seal off those gaps:

Front:










Rear:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Baffle was glued, screwed, and clamped overnight. I used other pieces of mdf as weights.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Cut the sub mounting hole and another test fit:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Drilled sub mounting holes, painted all the edges black and glued in 10-32 tee-nuts. I counter-bored so the tee-nuts would sit flush.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I like the use of duct seal in the gaps. I used it (and BBs) to add mass to the door speaker adapters in my Genesis Coupe. Neat stuff.

I see a lot of people use Roxul, and a lot who use shredded denim insulation. Any particular reason you chose Roxul?

Since you heard my car, I spent about 6hrs deadening my front doors (probably got rid of 90% of the resonances I had in NY) but now I hear more of them all over the car. Will be fun tracking them all down. I see a lot of deadener/Ensolite (CCF)/MLV in my future. I also had some gaps on the sides of the opening.

Jay


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Here is the hardware I used to attach the baffle to the vehicle.

5/16" bolts, washers and nylock nuts to attach it to the side reinforcement wings. Total of four - two on each side.

M6 x 60mm Socket Head Cap screws to attach the bottom of the baffle to the lower cross brace. Six of them.

1/4" x 2" Spax Construction Lags for the top. Six of them also.











M6 rivnuts were installed in the back side of the lower cross brace:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

JayinMI said:


> I like the use of duct seal in the gaps. I used it (and BBs) to add mass to the door speaker adapters in my Genesis Coupe. Neat stuff.
> 
> I see a lot of people use Roxul, and a lot who use shredded denim insulation. Any particular reason you chose Roxul?
> 
> ...


I used Roxul instead of denim because it is completely hydophobic just incase there was any water seepage into the trunklid.... and I had a whole bunch of it left over from treating the front door 

I did use denim insulation in the kick panels though and will likely use more of it inside the car in different areas where there are large voids like inside the dash and under the pillar covers... at least that is the plan for this coming winter.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Aluminum angle & hardware used to attach it to the underside of the opening. This will provide a mounting surface for the top of the baffle.

Fasteners are M6 x 20mm Button Head Capscrews, washers, and nylock nuts.

There is also a 3/8" wide piece of 1/16" aluminum flat used to shim the back side of the angle so that it sits straight once fastened down.











A piece of CCF was used to seal & decouple the angle to the body


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Carpeted the baffle:











I used CCF to seal the bottom & top edges where the gaps were minimal. And cut down pieces of Armaflex pipe insulation were used to seal off the sides to the "wings" where the gaps were slightly larger and irregular.

Sub can be mounted with cone facing front or rear. I had to cut a small groove in the aluminum angle for basket clearance when reverse mounted. But, when reverse mounted, the rear of the magnet was just barely touching the back of the rear seat when folded up... so in the end I decided to mount it with the cone facing forward for now. This coming winter I will be cutting/trimming out a passthrough behind the armrest and perhaps decide to reverse mount the sub again just to gain more trunk space.

Here is the final results:


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

MiniDSP controller was just surface mounted with 3M double sided mounting tape to the console just forward the armrest. It's hidden from view and protected from accidental operation with the armrest in the forward position. Will likely perform a more permanent install of it at a later date.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

The sub baffle and controller mount look really good! Great work.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice build!!!!


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Dude. I really need to get to work. Thanks for the motivation!!!


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ryan has done a great job on his build , and sounds great too !


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Dan750iL said:


> Dude. I really need to get to work. Thanks for the motivation!!!


YEAH! Get to it :whip: 

I've been waiting 2 years to hear your build, LOL


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

​


audirsfaux said:


> ryan has done a great job on his build , and sounds great too !


Agreed, and also took a really methodical and well thought out approach to the install and tuning.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks for all the encouragement here guys!


A little summary of my first season competing:

I attended several meets/comps this past year since finishing the install to the point where it’s at now. I never did intend to compete but Nick Apicella decided to have a MECA competition at his spring meet which I had planned on attending as I did the previous year... I figured might as well enter and see how the vehicle fares and it did much better than I would have ever imagined. That really encouraged me to attend a few other local-ish shows too.

Here are the results:

Apicella Summer Jam 2x - June 3rd, 2018:
1st Place (out of 5) in Modified Class with score of 77.25.
2nd highest score of show out of 19 entrants.

Brooklyn Car Audio Show 2x - June 23rd, 2018:
1st Place (out of 5) in Modified Class with score of 76.75.
2nd highest score of show out of 15 entrants.

Steel Valley Regionals 3x - July 28-29th, 2018:
9th Place (out of 11) in Modified Class with average score of 75.2.
The three judge's scores were 77.25, 69.5, and 78.5.

NYS Finals 3x - Sept. 23rd, 2018:
2nd Place (out of 2) in Modified Class with average score of 75.75.
The two judge's scores were 71.25 and 80.

To my ears, the car sounded it’s best at the 2nd show I attended - the Brooklyn Car audio show. The tune was simple and was based off the tune from the previous event with changes made to correct the lacking qualities that were noted on the score sheet.

For the next two events (SVR & NYS Finals), I tuned from the ground up in a much more thorough way: individual drivers, sides, then with everything playing using 1/12 octave and the results were mixed but overall I was disappointed with them. There are more ideas I’ve picked up since then that I would like to try.

I had a lot of fun and learned quite a bit competing. I never had a judge provide a critique that I didn’t agree with. I’m still learning how to listen critically and for certain qualities. Meeting and talking to a bunch of new folks this past season definitely has expanded my understanding of everything audio.

There will be a few changes & improvements that I will attempt to complete this winter for next season, so stay tuned….


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice. Even the carpet matches. There are probably 15 different gray colors, and I never seem to end up with the right one.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

schmiddr2 said:


> Nice. Even the carpet matches. There are probably 15 different gray colors, and I never seem to end up with the right one.


Dude, amen!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Ryan, I'm really impressed with how well put together your iterations are. It's evident that you take your time and are methodical about how you approach each new change to your system. I wish I had more of that. I look forward to seeing you maybe at Jason's meet next spring. Until then, keep up the good work!


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ryan we should make plans for a tuning summit this winter ..


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

audirsfaux said:


> ryan we should make plans for a tuning summit this winter ..


I would totally be up for that!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Truthunter said:


> Thanks for all the encouragement here guys!
> 
> 
> A little summary of my first season competing:
> ...


Most of the time I've had people tell me to use 1/3 or 1/6 Octave. Do you think the added resolution might have had some detrimental effect on your tune?



Truthunter said:


> I had a lot of fun and learned quite a bit competing. I never had a judge provide a critique that I didn’t agree with. I’m still learning how to listen critically and for certain qualities. Meeting and talking to a bunch of new folks this past season definitely has expanded my understanding of everything audio.
> 
> There will be a few changes & improvements that I will attempt to complete this winter for next season, so stay tuned….


That's kinda something I'd like to work on. Since quite a lot of the music that is used for demos/judging isn't something I'd normally listen to, I have no idea what I'm supposed to be listening for. I always wished there were liner notes on CD's like the MECA Tantric Tuning disc, that said what to look out for. 

I can usually tell if something seems to be an improvement or not, but sometimes the fine details go unnoticed. 

A friend of mine shared a playlist with me, and a text file telling me what I should listen for. I'm planning to start a fresh tune soon, and I think that more resources like that would be helpful.



Jay


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

schmiddr2 said:


> Nice. Even the carpet matches. There are probably 15 different gray colors, and I never seem to end up with the right one.





ErinH said:


> Dude, amen!


Try finding a matching tan carpet, even worse than finding matching gray. I gave up after about 20 samples. 



audirsfaux said:


> ryan we should make plans for a tuning summit this winter ..





Truthunter said:


> I would totally be up for that!


Depending when and where you guys do this I might be able to make it.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

naiku said:


> Try finding a matching tan carpet, even worse than finding matching gray. I gave up after about 20 samples.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


cool lets work it out !!


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Nov 17th seems a good date 

In all honesty, as long as it is a Saturday I should be able to make it, will let you and Ryan figure out a date / location. Sunday's are 100% out for me currently.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

JayinMI said:


> Most of the time I've had people tell me to use 1/3 or 1/6 Octave. Do you think the added resolution might have had some detrimental effect on your tune?
> 
> Jay


Not sure really if it was that specifically... and not that they were perfect or could not be much better... but the tunes I performed that sounded best to me were completed by just setting TA using distance, using mono eq to achieve a target curve at 1/6th octave with all drivers playing, and then using the headunit's balance control to achieve center image in the middle of the dash.

Who da thunk! LOL.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Truthunter said:


> Not sure really if it was that specifically... and not that they were perfect or could not be much better... but the tunes I performed that sounded best to me were completed by just setting TA using distance, using mono eq to achieve a target curve at 1/6th octave with all drivers playing, and then using the headunit's balance control to achieve center image in the middle of the dash.
> 
> Who da thunk! LOL.


unconventional ! i like it 

i would just change the balance from adjusting amplitude from the dsp , but whatever works .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

naiku said:


> Nov 17th seems a good date
> 
> In all honesty, as long as it is a Saturday I should be able to make it, will let you and Ryan figure out a date / location. Sunday's are 100% out for me currently.


let me check the family calendar at home and ill let you know


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Truthunter said:


>


Hey Ryan, everything looks great.

Quick question: Do you have any concerns with the stock door grills limiting your 8”s at all? I know it’d be a pain to cut out and install speaker cloth.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris12 said:


> Hey Ryan, everything looks great.
> 
> Quick question: Do you have any concerns with the stock door grills limiting your 8”s at all? I know it’d be a pain to cut out and install speaker cloth.


I guess I'm not sure what you mean by limiting?

In case of excursion, then no, there is enough room for the woofer to reach full excursion before contacting the back side of the door panel.

As far as other characteristics such as frequency response - I haven't really thought about it. I guess one would have to do some measuring under both circumstances (grill - no grill) to see if there is any differences. But I suppose I'm not too concerned about it since they are only play up to 300hz max.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Truthunter said:


> I guess I'm not sure what you mean by limiting?
> 
> In case of excursion, then no, there is enough room for the woofer to reach full excursion before contacting the back side of the door panel.
> 
> As far as other characteristics such as frequency response - I haven't really thought about it. I guess one would have to do some measuring under both circumstances (grill - no grill) to see if there is any differences. But I suppose I'm not too concerned about it since they are only play up to 300hz max.


I was referring to the restrictive grill reflecting sound back into the door. Sounds like this isn’t an issue at lower frequencies.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

I have been referencing this thread so much as I install my stereo that I decided to create a .pdf version of it. This way I can view it offline, print, etc.

I figured it may be of use to others, especially those doing builds on similar/identical cars like myself, so I wanted to share it.

It contains most of truthunters posts, but not all because some posts wouldn’t show up in safari “reader mode”.

I uploaded the file to google drive, but it’s 145 pages which is pretty large. I test downloaded it myself and it warns “too large to preview”, then “too large to scan for viruses”.

Hopefully others find it as useful as I have.

Here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cxZ1W67sdjTLPQK4-N1JM81gpbwXgLxl/view?usp=drivesdk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I'm glad this thread is so useful for other 7th Gen Camry owners 

I find that the build log section of this site has a lot of hidden gem posts in it. What others have learned and shared in their build log so that others can make better decisions is very valuable... Especially in those logs in which the thought process for why decisions were made is detailed.

I think one of the logs that has lots of gold to be mined is ErinH's build log:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/144179-2006-honda-civic-lx-sedan-build-neverending-tale.html


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I had to stop in, check out the build, and also give a big THANK YOU to all the advice from this Saturday. Definitely kicking myself for not staying just a bit longer and listening to your install. Spent most of the ride home pondering what you said, and tried a few things with minimal luck. But after resetting it all to zero, and starting fresh, it seems to be coming together a bit more. Especially that comment about the phase. Instead of leaning on phase use as a crutch, was better to just attenuate those speakers down a bit, but in phase. Also played with some crossover settings based on what you said in another thread. That seems to be helping too. Thank you again my friend!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh Chit......you should have heard it! I thought it was exceptional! For me - very much reference sound vs the ‘typical’ in your face car audio sound. Very good highs / mids (better integration of tweeter - not reflecting off B pillar), and amazing balance of mid bass and sub - incredible IB play - such a natural bass sound. You would have dug it Daniel!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Gosh, your review just makes it that much worse that I didn't get to listen. I mean, that sounds like exactly what we are all striving towards. Gahhhh!!!

And such a beautiful install too!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Oh Chit......you should have heard it! I thought it was exceptional! For me - very much reference sound vs the ‘typical’ in your face car audio sound. Very good highs / mids (better integration of tweeter - not reflecting off B pillar), and amazing balance of mid bass and sub - incredible IB play - such a natural bass sound. You would have dug it Daniel!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Oh most definitely.. This car is not even the same car I heard a couple summers ago at Ian's VA meet. Not even close.. Shouldn't even have the same vin number hahaha.  This car's owner has definitely partaken of and absorbed some genuine SQ ability and knowledge. I could listen to this camry all day long. I found only small things I could nit pick but that's about it. Tonality was nice. Stage was nice wide and deep, imaging was quite nice as well. Sub/midbass coherence and placement was good. Maybe just a little bit of coherence between mids and tweeters possibly as mentioned. The car sounded really really good.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

chithead said:


> I had to stop in, check out the build, and also give a big THANK YOU to all the advice from this Saturday. Definitely kicking myself for not staying just a bit longer and listening to your install. Spent most of the ride home pondering what you said, and tried a few things with minimal luck. But after resetting it all to zero, and starting fresh, it seems to be coming together a bit more. Especially that comment about the phase. Instead of leaning on phase use as a crutch, was better to just attenuate those speakers down a bit, but in phase. Also played with some crossover settings based on what you said in another thread. That seems to be helping too. Thank you again my friend!


Hey Pal, thanks for stopping by! Very nice to finally meet you this past weekend. Pretty sure your Jeep just needs some rightly applied TA and EQ to bring it to the next level. Keep us updated on the progress :thumbsup:




bertholomey said:


> Oh Chit......you should have heard it! I thought it was exceptional! For me - very much reference sound vs the ‘typical’ in your face car audio sound. Very good highs / mids (better integration of tweeter - not reflecting off B pillar), and amazing balance of mid bass and sub - incredible IB play - such a natural bass sound. You would have dug it Daniel!





Babs said:


> Oh most definitely.. This car is not even the same car I heard a couple summers ago at Ian's VA meet. Not even close.. Shouldn't even have the same vin number hahaha.  This car's owner has definitely partaken of and absorbed some genuine SQ ability and knowledge. I could listen to this camry all day long. I found only small things I could nit pick but that's about it. Tonality was nice. Stage was nice wide and deep, imaging was quite nice as well. Sub/midbass coherence and placement was good. Maybe just a little bit of coherence between mids and tweeters possibly as mentioned. The car sounded really really good.


Thanks Jason & Scott for all the encouraging comments here. I can say it's because of the warm friendly welcome and encouragement I was offered by you guys (and Ian) at Ian's meet a few years ago that really jump started my deep interest in this hobby. I'm proud to display that NCSQ sticker on my car 


==========================

For those of you following this build: There were a few changes I made this past winter/spring which I will be soon detailing here the why & how.

I attended the Sqology Cinco de Mayo event this past Sunday in Garner NC (First comp this year for me). I made some minor tuning tweaks just before the show to help attenuate some cabin resonances I was hearing. The results for Meca was a score of 77.75 and for IASCA a score of 208


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Those are great scores! Very much earned for sure!!! A force to be reckoned with.....now to move down to this area so you could compete a bit more (and put NY in the rear view....though that is not a possibility for now )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Great scores Ryan. I’m in your class. I’m comin after ya Bro! Hahaha!! That might be a tall order though.  If I can get to any comps at all. I’d have a real challenge on my hands to be sure. You’re sounding dang good man. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

I can't wait to hear the new incarnation. Your car has always sounded just right in my past experiences. Good luck with your new SQ piece.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Dam dog, I poked my head in to check out the mini install and ended up reading for the last hour. Okay, your car is sick. I frikkn love it man. I wish I had the time to have the little detail work like this. I can only imagine how it sounds. Not to mention I love IB. 


I missed out on the first pages of pics looks like they expired, but from what I can see is very nice.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks for the encouraging comments here! 


=====================================

It's going to be raining here for a while so figured I would try to bring this thread up to date over the next few nights.


First thing I did this year was replace the stock battery. It was showing signs that it needed to be replaced over the winter - car needed to be jump'd a few times. It was only 3 years old but had been compromised from me discharging it listening to music with the engine off many times.

I knew I wanted something with a higher reserve capacity and the ability to be deep discharged without being weakened. After some research I decided on the direct replacement X2Power 24F AGM.

It was actually slightly smaller (but much heavier) then the stock battery and didn't fully fit the battery bracket. The bracket was only contacting the battery about a 1/4" on both sides:




















So I made a couple of filler blocks out of leftover HDPE scrap:


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)




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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Truthunter said:


> It's going to be raining here for a while so figured I would try to bring this thread up to date over the next few nights.


I'm done on vacation now, send some of the rain this way to cool things off a little!! I have a ton of outdoor things to get sorted, but also want to really dig into the DL tune some and cannot stand sweating in the garage. 

Are you planning to compete at SVR again this year? I can see you coming home with a prize if so.... I had hoped to compete this year and spend the weekend up there, but won't actually be able to make it at all now (have a conflict on the Saturday).


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Spent this past weekend in WV at Steel Valley Regionals VIII.

Saw some old friends and met a bunch of new enthusiasts. Heard some excellent audio systems and received valuable feedback and tuning tips from some of the nations top competitors, tuners, and judges.

The competition was fierce! There was literally fractions of point separating the top three in many classes.

I hadn't planned on entering the top 30 (which ended up being the Top 40!) money round. But some dropped out at the last minute and my good friend Gerald (High Resolution Audio) encouraged me and made a way for me to enter which I'm very grateful for.

Ended up 18th out of 40 and did much better than I had expected in IASCA & MECA at such a large competitive event. Thank you Larry Chijner for hosting this event and also the Sqology team, judges, and sponsors for making it happen!


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Congrats on the warm reception, that has to feel good. (yes the image is not appearing)


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Congrats on the warm reception, that has to feel good. (yes the image is not appearing)


Thanks!

Not sure why I can't get shared google photos to display anymore so I guess I'll just start attaching them.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Congrats, Ryan! 

Any chance you're coming to finals this year? I am actively trying to convince Ian to make the drive over to Louisville to hang out with everyone and listen to some bad mammajamma cars that weekend.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Great job Ryan! I hope to see you in September 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Congrats!

I’ve been meaning to ask, how do you like the Dirac Live? Would you recommend it for a rookie tuner?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

ErinH said:


> Congrats, Ryan!
> 
> Any chance you're coming to finals this year? I am actively trying to convince Ian to make the drive over to Louisville to hang out with everyone and listen to some bad mammajamma cars that weekend.


There is one more 4x event for me to attend in NY... so yeah even if I don't place there I think I'll have enough points for finals 

BTW, I'll work on Ian too


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris12 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> I’ve been meaning to ask, how do you like the Dirac Live? Would you recommend it for a rookie tuner?


Thanks Chris!

I actually only partially used the Dirac function on the DSP for this past event. Like others, I'm still experimenting with different methods to implement the full room correction to achieve the tonality that is pleasing to me.

But, I will say that IME utilizing the time delay, that Dirac Live calculates, on a manual tonality tune made a very noticeable improvement over just using delays based on distance. The delays I'm using now are very different then I used previously.
My car sounded good previously but this alone brought it to the next level. The best way I can explain it is that the speakers disappear - I suppose much better coherence. I think it's do to the fact that it's measuring IR and the phase/time shift do to xover filters is taken into consideration compared to just delaying by distance.
Matter of fact, one of the judges made that exact comment- that it sounded like there were just two point sources and the individual speaker locations were hard to detect just from listening.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Congrats on your placings Ryan, your car sounded really good, I predict you winning the NY finals.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bertholomey said:


> Great job Ryan! I hope to see you in September


Thanks Jason. Yes, hope to see you in September too and if not October!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Mullings said:


> Congrats on your placings Ryan, your car sounded really good, I predict you winning the NY finals.


Thanks Kevin. You're car sounded the best I've ever heard... very suprised you didn't place better.

NY 4x event will be easy points especially if Nick doesn't start advertising it


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## nextproject (Oct 17, 2010)

Congrats Ryan!

I started following your thread right away since I had a similar Camry, i have since gotten rid of it but still subscribed and enjoy the progress!...

Thanks for all the great info!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

nextproject said:


> Congrats Ryan!
> 
> I started following your thread right away since I had a similar Camry, i have since gotten rid of it but still subscribed and enjoy the progress!...
> 
> Thanks for all the great info!


Thank you! You helped me out along the way with ideas from your old Camry build :thumbsup:


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Lol, I want him to advertise it but my car won’t be entering if Geoff is judging. This guy judged my car 4 times with 4 different setups and gives me his preset score for my car every single time, not one point above or below but I got genuine feedback from 5 other judges plus some heavy hitters so his opinion doesn’t count.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Congratulations again, well deserved after all the work you put in on the Camry. 



ErinH said:


> Any chance you're coming to finals this year? I am actively trying to convince Ian to make the drive over to Louisville to hang out with everyone and listen to some bad mammajamma cars that weekend.





Truthunter said:


> BTW, I'll work on Ian too


Trust me, I want to come!! Just not sure how realistic it will be at the moment with my wife's work schedule.




Mullings said:


> Lol, I want him to advertise it but my car won’t be entering if Geoff is judging. This guy judged my car 4 times with 4 different setups and gives me his preset score for my car every single time, not one point above or below


WTF... that's really weird, and I can imagine fairly annoying.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Yesterday, I competed in the MECA NE 4x show hosted by Apicella Auto Sound here in NY.

This is the only show this year in the NE. Thank you Nick (Skizer) for taking the time out of your busy schedule to host this for us NE enthusiasts! Also, I want to thank the judges for making the long trek out here to make this happen. Mr. Papisan from CA, Mike Flanigan from MS, and Anthony Davis from NC were the MECA judges. And Steve (captainobvious) was the money round judge. It was nice to have judges that have never heard my car before give me feedback.

Some of you know that I have a MiniDSP 8x12 v2 that is upgraded with the DL (Dirac Live) firmware. This is the first competition where I utilized the full Dirac Live correction. Possibly the first car to compete with it.

Usually at a show, just prior to being judged, I'll spend 1-2hrs waving a mic around my head making last minute corrections chasing that "just right" tune which I never really achieve. Well, this time was different - I was so pleased with the results of the full Dirac Live tune that I didn't feel the need for any further improvements before being judged. My average score was higher than at any previous show. It was good feeling 

Placed 1st in MECA Mod-Street (out of 3) and 5th out of 19 in the money round.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Great to meet you yesterday, sorry I had to leave so quickly but I had to get back south. 
Look forward to seeing you out next season


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

chefhow said:


> Great to meet you yesterday, sorry I had to leave so quickly but I had to get back south.
> Look forward to seeing you out next season


Yes, great to finally meet you too Howard! Wish I had more time to chat, tap into your experience and get some feedback on my car. Maybe I'll see you at finals?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Fantastic experience! I’m so glad you were able to make the show and get great results. I’m looking forward to my next demo in the Camry!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

This poor thread this in desperate need of updating..


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Fantastic experience! I’m so glad you were able to make the show and get great results. I’m looking forward to my next demo in the Camry!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Soooo, I finally got this experience! And Wow! Was it worth the wait!!!!

Ryan has put together an amazing sounding vehicle - it does dynamic and finesse equally well - with wonderful staging / imaging - larger than the physical space! 

The tonality was exactly in my wheelhouse! Great highs! Detailed mid range, and a very solid midbass / sub integration - stunning!!! 

I had a line behind me of some disgruntled folks waiting for their turn......but I had to listen to every track on my demo disc! But I could have stayed the rest of the day - just saying, “oh boy! What will this one sound like, oh no - I need to hear this one!” 

If you see this ‘non-descript’, stealth install Camry at Finals - do yourself a solid and ask for a long demo!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

Lol glad the judges ears heard the magic of mixed phase filtering of Dirac Live. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bertholomey said:


> Soooo, I finally got this experience! And Wow! Was it worth the wait!!!!
> 
> Ryan has put together an amazing sounding vehicle - it does dynamic and finesse equally well - with wonderful staging / imaging - larger than the physical space!
> 
> ...


Wow! Thanks for this Jason... very encouraging!

Your car sounded absolutely amazing too... even better than the BRZ ever did IMHO. Matter of fact, there were qualities I heard in your car that I want in my car.

And thanks for sharing the new demo music - the tracks you have shared with me over the last couple of years have allowed me to experience new musical horizons that I didn't even know existed.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> If you see this ‘non-descript’, stealth install Camry at Finals - do yourself a solid and ask for a long demo!


Agreed... well worth it.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

First car I wanna hear at Finals Sir. 
I fully expect tears of joy and jealousy.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Babs said:


> First car I wanna hear at Finals Sir.
> I fully expect tears of joy and jealousy.


I am glad you will be there Scott ... I didn't know you were planning on going. :thumbsup:

I've witnessed goosebumps & arm hairs standing up on end while giving a demo... but no tears yet :smug2:


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Truthunter said:


> I am glad you will be there Scott ... I didn't know you were planning on going. :thumbsup:


Yep my NCSQ crew got to me.. I went ahead and booked a room. Need a little road trip to hang out with Team Audiobro's ya know and get some spark back in my car tunes obsession. I'm more than sure mine won't be done but I'll be there at least.



Truthunter said:


> I've witnessed goosebumps & arm hairs standing up on end while giving a demo... but no tears yet :smug2:


Well I get emotional in my old age ya know.  I'll take goosebumps too of course.. I certainly had 'em when I last listened to it.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Truthunter said:


> Yesterday, I competed in the MECA NE 4x show hosted by Apicella Auto Sound here in NY.
> 
> This is the only show this year in the NE. Thank you Nick (Skizer) for taking the time out of your busy schedule to host this for us NE enthusiasts! Also, I want to thank the judges for making the long trek out here to make this happen. Mr. Papisan from CA, Mike Flanigan from MS, and Anthony Davis from NC were the MECA judges. And Steve (captainobvious) was the money round judge. It was nice to have judges that have never heard my car before give me feedback.
> 
> ...




Congrats !


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Truthhunter, in post 179 it looks like you have the Roxul right behind the driver. Can you speak to how you had the Roxul in the door, mainly I'm wondering about the window. I assume you attached some of the Roxul to the outside of the door skin but like I said, it looks like you also had some Roxul next to the inner door skin. Is that correct? How did you attach the Roxul to the interior door skin if you did. Thanks.

By the way, I have some Roxul from my home audio treatments so I will be copying all of your door sound deadening techniques. So thanks for the great documentation.

David


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

dgage said:


> Truthhunter, in post 179 it looks like you have the Roxul right behind the driver. Can you speak to how you had the Roxul in the door, mainly I'm wondering about the window. I assume you attached some of the Roxul to the outside of the door skin but like I said, it looks like you also had some Roxul next to the inner door skin. Is that correct? How did you attach the Roxul to the interior door skin if you did. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, I have some Roxul from my home audio treatments so I will be copying all of your door sound deadening techniques. So thanks for the great documentation.
> 
> David


Glad this thread is useful for you 

That picture is deceiving... The Roxul is only attached to the outer skin. There are two layers of 1" where it will fit and only 1 layer of 1" over the crash bars. In some spots the window mechanism clears the Roxul by only 3/8". The window only comes down about halfway behind the speaker opening before it stops... If it went down any further it would contact the Roxel. It's a tight fit but haven't had any issues with it so far.


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## atmiller70 (May 30, 2020)

Hey there. Great thread. I just picked up the same car in February and finished installing new speakers, new head unit and a powered sub. I came back to this several times. Thanks for being so thorough. I am very much a novice to all this so I was wondering if you upgraded "The Big 3?" I don't remember seeing it and I can't see where to search the thread (although I do remember seeing your battery upgrade). Anyway, it looks like there are 2 engine grounds, which I think may be unique to the V-6. Just wondering if you noticed the same thing and would you recommend doing it, especially if I add a small 4 channel amp. Thanks


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Hi there... I'm glad my thread was useful to you. 👍

I have not upgraded the big three or any other factory power wiring. I've never had a power delivery issue other than killing a standard stock wet cell battery from extended off engine play time. I have a power supply for that now. I really don't feel the big three is necessary with the power level I'm running. Possibly I would consider it if I was running double the power... but all that extra work doesn't make any sense to me for just a negligible 3db increase in output.

So with that said, I definately don't see a need for you to do so either if your just adding a small 4 channel amp.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Truthunter said:


> Yesterday, I competed in the MECA NE 4x show hosted by Apicella Auto Sound here in NY.
> 
> This is the only show this year in the NE. Thank you Nick (Skizer) for taking the time out of your busy schedule to host this for us NE enthusiasts! Also, I want to thank the judges for making the long trek out here to make this happen. Mr. Papisan from CA, Mike Flanigan from MS, and Anthony Davis from NC were the MECA judges. And Steve (captainobvious) was the money round judge. It was nice to have judges that have never heard my car before give me feedback.
> 
> ...


awe **** man he’ll yes!!! That’s bad ass ! All Dirac baybee!!! That’s so so awesome


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So Ryan 
Yeah , I’ve read this before…. I just forgot… dumb me…. Your car is so sick…. Awesome job man….. I know it sounds good…. I know it does


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

oabeieo said:


> So Ryan
> Yeah , I’ve read this before…. I just forgot… dumb me…. Your car is so sick…. Awesome job man….. I know it sounds good…. I know it does


yeah as he laughs in jealousy


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Just read back through this entire log this afternoon. Picking up some additional ideas 


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