# I just hate helix dsp P6 mk1-- and dam all this dsp journey



## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

lets say it like this I am not a professional installer, nor would I claim I am best in understanding the gibberish things that get thrown around here

BUT i regret the day I decided to go to better car audio route using dsp's especially helix

I just hate everything about the Helix P6 mk1, from it crap connectivity of the dam Director controller that keeps disconnecting and make the unit not function unless I re plug the dam cable

Now also the freaking 5 meter cables where the threads are going into the plug I see one thread got disconnected and not the dam Director wont turn on
How on earth will I be able to fix that now, so badly designed connection - I really despise Helix now

Let alone the crappy sound I get in my car, I just can not get it sound right and its not dynamic, and so anemic sounding that I stopped listening to music altogether. Dam the day I went the dsp and helix route. I see myself never ever messing with car audio especially with new cars where the systems are engineered to sound great in stock

Dam this dsp, and all this crappy car audio journey


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

If you've already got a DSP installed, you've got the infrastructure laid (wiring, RCAs, ground, etc.). So all the hard work is done. That being said, if I were you, I'd consider trying a different DSP. It might just be plug and play at this point. 

The Dayton DSP-408 is $150 USD with another $30 for the Bluetooth Dongle. Mini DSP 6x8, I think is $275 USD. 

You've come this far, might as well cough up another few hundie and go down swinging. 

Sell the Helix on eBay or on this forum to recoup some of the loss.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Take it to a professional to get it sorted out

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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> Take it to a professional to get it sorted out
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Yes, this is a way in over your head situation.


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## vietjdmboi (Jan 3, 2015)

if all else fails and you decide to change there are plenty of other brand dsp's out there. I have a p six mk2 and i absolutely love it.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Really hard to blame the gear here (assuming it's functioning properly) as it doesn't get much better. As a few others have said - take it to a pro.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Look at the OP's location. There may not be anyone local to take it to.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Plenty of tuning totorials to help you out.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Plenty of tuning totorials to help you out.


Audiotec Fischer Sound Tuning Magazine


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Bizarroterl said:


> Look at the OP's location. There may not be anyone local to take it to.


A high density first world country doesn't have a 12v shop?


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

hykbooks said:


> Dam the day I went the dsp and helix route.
> 
> Dam this dsp, and all this crappy car audio journey


These excerpts could be my new sig line. Going to sleep on this.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Imagine if he went with a different dsp... lol

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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

hykbooks said:


> lets say it like this I am not a professional installer, nor would I claim I am best in understanding the gibberish things that get thrown around here
> 
> BUT i regret the day I decided to go to better car audio route using dsp's especially helix
> 
> ...


By threads do you mean wires? Of course if you have pulled out the wires the thing won't work properly. That said, the Director isn't necessary to use the P-SIX. It should work just fine without it, or until you are able to replace or repair the cable if I understood your post.

I'd be willing to bet that you will be able to find a dealer nearby that can help you with the issues you are having. The Helix is one of the easiest DSPs to set up and use, if you are having issues I strongly suggest visiting a dealer.


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

Sorry OP,can't relate.My MiniDSP 6x8 took car audio to another level.I will NEVER look back.....


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## ominous (Apr 21, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> Imagine if he went with a different dsp... lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


I imagine we'd get the same post, just with a different manufacturer in the title. 

My guess is he got to reading about how good DSP's are and decided to give it a try. His research probably lead him to the Helix being the best out there, so he went out and got himself a P Six. He spent hours getting it installed but ran into hardware issues. On top of that, when he tried to set up his DSP (my guess is without a lot of tuning experience) he couldn't get his tune right. So he's sitting there with this nice piece of equipment with (probably) easily correctable hardware issues that sounds like crap because he doesn't have the knowledge needed to do it properly. So all of the time, effort and money he's invested isn't showing any positive returns. 

I understand where he's coming from. Now it's time to step back, relax and put together a plan to address the issues. There's not one complaint he's listed that can't be resolved.


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## FlyingEagle (Sep 22, 2017)

I don't understand the stock car system sounding good or better than the AM parts he was installing and using to help his stock system. I think he should have talked himself out of this whole situation, and probably would have if he had posted his thoughts here first, then taken the plune - sending the car to a professional. I don't think many people in Jerusalem run 12v shops ... but maybe I am way off base.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

This is unfortunate but is also typical when you lack experience & knowledge for the depth & complexity of such a setup. There's no autotune or easy setup like some aftermarket decks may offer. You're on your own with nothing but a couple of forums and videos that assume you know what you're doing, to begin with, not to mention you have tackled the installation side of things to get the most out of your gear. 

Personally, I love the Helix but find the Director more unnecessary than needed. I have a Helix in each vehicle and have never found the need to include the Director for either one. It is known to have issues at times for many while others have not had issues. To rid that chance, I'd remove or leave it disconnected for a bit. It's not like you need it to tune the setup. 

Go back and start with the basics... gain & level settings. Hard to get this wrong even if it isn't perfect. Setting up of crossovers is pretty easy as well even if you use the arbitrary frequency points most throw out, 80hz for sub and mid with the rest depending upon what sort of setup & drivers you are using (2-way or 3-way fronts). The Tracerite calculator site does the time alignment homework for you as long as you can operate a tape measure. It gets you very close or even one & done in some cases. If you have invested in a full blown DSP as such, a calibrated mic & laptop should have also been purchased (who doesn't have a laptop these days?), and REW is free to use with plenty of tutorials on how to get it going. If REW is too complex, there are a few others that can be used that are fairly simpler. 


The point here is don't give up! It's much simpler than you think and you can do it yourself if there's no local place you can go to for help. It's installed so the worse case at this point is starting over with setup and even many of us with plenty of time in the seat will do the same periodically. Once you have the order of process for a tuning session down, it becomes easier and the results become more apparent. But do yourself a favor.... watch some of the tutorials and study. Don't just go into it haphazardly or not knowing what is being affected. Take the time to research a little more and go at it again.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

While I feel for the OP and hate to agree (due to my general disagreeable nature), There is a point here...



Bayboy said:


> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Assuming that he could arrive at a solution, then he could be a beacon for others in his region...


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## sareea (Oct 19, 2016)

I understand you man... But believe it or not... If you do it all yourself it is hard. It is not a plug-n-listen journey. 
When you enter a car audio journey you need to allocate money to basic installations and pro help when needed... As others said here take it to a pro, pay some money to sort it out and your done.
But choose that pro wisely.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

That is a lot of jive. With the tons of people on here and elsewhere, I do not believe the majority are going to pros. Most are tackling the jobs themselves just like I have. Can't recall the last time I've been to a shop. Not to take away from those that do or the shops that do good work, but honestly, I take the words with a grain of salt from those who haven't gotten their hands dirty. Like what can a person who entirely depends on a shop do for another on a forum besides say " throw more $$$$ at it until it fixes itself!"? Not a dig at anyone in particular, but an obvious clue of how this place has changed over the years... 



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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

OP's plight is not unique at all. I'm still not out of the water, so to speak, with my DSP journey. But I know there are enough people who are adamant that they can provide a night and day difference in the SQ of their vehicles and those people, usually, have gone through a great deal of struggle, trial-and-error, frustration, and failures before they finally succeeded. 

Knowing that, I'm not letting my frustration get the best of me. I'm committed to seeing it through. I may not be done for months, but I'm fine with that. I knew that from the outset. So even though the system that I have with a DSP doesn't sound excellent, I'm confident I can get there. 

Each time I allocate a good chunk of time to sit in the vehicle and learn to use REW, the SQ improves. 

But it's a LOT to learn and it takes a LOT of time. 

Do not give up.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Ya know, there is a guy on the forum who offers remote tuning and happens to be pretty familiar with the Helix stuff. 

He's right here in this thread actually. 

But in the spirit of DIY, there are many more willing to help walk you through this process. 

Alternately, although I've never been there, I'm pretty sure OP isn't in an audio black hole. IIRC this is where Morel is based. There are 12V people there.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

OneGun - bring your car to Illinois. We'll get you all tuned up and happy.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Funny thing is... I remember thinking the same thing, the first time I got a DSP.

I had read all these great things on DIYMA about guys turning their stereos into absolutely phenominal sounding systems with this 'magic box'. I had to have one...

Went online and ordered a Rockford 360 (Version 1). Hooked it all up. Didn't have a clue how to tune... and my systems sounded like sh!t. Worse than how it sounded with LOC going straight into the amp. 

I totally get this guy's frustration and disappointment.
To be honest; I drove around with my stereo sounding crappy for about a month, while I read and studied how a DSP actually works. Then I started playing with the software...

If the OP is still reading, then I would just say; "hang in there". You have a couple options:
1. Take it to a shop, and have them check over all your wiring and do a proper tune. When it's done properly, you will be happy with your purchase. 

2. Suffer with it for a few weeks, and start to study how to use the Helix software (and how to use a DSP in general). This is valuable knowledge that you can use for the rest of your audio life. Definitely worth the time investment.


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

benny z said:


> OneGun - bring your car to Illinois. We'll get you all tuned up and happy.


I've still got some fight left in me... can't say for how long though. If I decide to fly the flag of surrender, expect a PM.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

OneGun said:


> I've still got some fight left in me... can't say for how long though. If I decide to fly the flag of surrender, expect a PM.




Word!


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Must have been an evil person that created something that costs a lot of money and has a steep learning curve,

Then placed that project in something that most must face daily, and which also happens to be one of their largest financial investments (vehicle),

And to top it all off, they had the product of that project be something as emotion inspiring as music..

I can’t imagine why the OP is frustrated


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

OneGun said:


> These excerpts could be my new sig line. Going to sleep on this.


And so this hath cometh to be.


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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

I've only used the Helix DSP Pro mk2 and the JL Twk. The TWK interface is super easy but limited to 10 adjustments. Also unfortunately the Helix actually sounds noticably better (in my subjective humble opinion) so I kept trying to learn it (and continue to learn). Maybe try the TWK? I eventually went back to the Helix though. 

But I totally understand there's a lot about the Helix interface that I don't enjoy and even reading the entire tuning manual and watching vids still leaves question marks. There's also random glitches I've experienced (specifically with the load and save states I've had to reset on several occasions) and I forget but there's something funky after playing with a certain tab where audio will just not work unless you power cycle or something like that ... I also strongly dislike the director or urc remotes "s-video" style plug which does not like to stay firmly in place. 


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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

And it's true about using the knowledge elsewhere haha. I just used my umik mic and REW to measure the frequency of a high pitch painful whine from an LED photography light I just purchased. It's at 15.5k which not everyone can hear


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I remember dealing with my first encounter of left and right EQ. An RTA can be a little tricky, so I resorted to tuning by ear with 1/3 octave pink noise and still utilize it to this day along with the RTA. There's an older thread on this forum that's a big help... something titled ".. My Stage Ate My Windshield" or something to that effect. Look it up, read and try it. Really helps to center things in a more simpler way albeit a house curve will still need to be applied. 

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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

JH1973 said:


> Sorry OP,can't relate.My MiniDSP 6x8 took car audio to another level.I will NEVER look back.....


I'm right there with you, but with an 8x12.
OP, ditch that Helix and get anything else that doesn't screw up when the remote disconnects. Sure, you can fix it, but that sort of thing is a deal breaker for me, along with separately purchased remotes that are absolutely necessary for basic operation.


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

Bayboy said:


> This is unfortunate but is also typical when you lack experience & knowledge for the depth & complexity of such a setup. There's no autotune or easy setup like some aftermarket decks may offer. You're on your own with nothing but a couple of forums and videos that assume you know what you're doing, to begin with, not to mention you have tackled the installation side of things to get the most out of your gear.
> 
> Personally, I love the Helix but find the Director more unnecessary than needed. I have a Helix in each vehicle and have never found the need to include the Director for either one. It is known to have issues at times for many while others have not had issues. To rid that chance, I'd remove or leave it disconnected for a bit. It's not like you need it to tune the setup.
> 
> ...


Actually the Helix does autotune, and it does quite well.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

dobslob said:


> Actually the Helix does autotune, and it does quite well.


What is included in this "autotune" aside from auto EQ?


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

dobslob said:


> Actually the Helix does autotune, and it does quite well.


how do you do that? it only for p series?


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Hi guys, yes I live in Israel, and to be honest there is no one what so ever that knows how to tune dsps, I tried installation shops, and private individuals as well who claim they could do it

Before Helip Psix, I helix Pro and then I sold my car and sold with it the helix pro and with that as well I was not liking the sound of my system. I had at the time hybrid audio 3 way speakers and a sub and 3 audison amp lxr 4.1, 2.1 and 1.1 and dynamat in my car and the sound was horrible.

So when I sold my car, and got a company car, I could not install 3 amps and 3 way system in the new rented car. So I opted for Psix and kept hybird audio 2 way and a sub. 

Now the car sounds like literally crap on steroids. I went to so many people no can tune this this setup

Yes there are installers here that can install this in Israel but no one can tune it the right way, heck I even paid someone 150 usd to someone to tune the car. Which was awfully tuned

Anyhow, the bass is all over the place, the mids are thin and metallic sounding and the highs are like knives in my head

To salt ot the injury, I tried to tune the car like I tune my planar headphone with no success what so ever. Also the inability to put dynamat in the rented car is adding more difficulty to the tune the car

I am just in need for help to get it decently tuned and do not know what to do any more


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

hykbooks said:


> Hi guys, yes I live in Israel, and to be honest there is no one what so ever that knows how to tune dsps, I tried installation shops, and private individuals as well who claim they could do it
> 
> Before Helip Psix, I helix Pro and then I sold my car and sold with it the helix pro and with that as well I was not liking the sound of my system. I had at the time hybrid audio 3 way speakers and a sub and 3 audison amp lxr 4.1, 2.1 and 1.1 and dynamat in my car and the sound was horrible.
> 
> ...




Can you post your full setup if you already haven't? I mean from the type of vehicle, headunit, speakers & location, etc. 

We could try to get deeper into the issue right on here where many minds can mesh (and hopefully not bicker from showy pride of know-it-all knowledge) to get you off to a better start. 

Have you confirmed that the vehicle is not doing anything to the signal? That is a major problem with most newer models that require solutions like the JL Fix or whatever. Not saying that is the issue, but let's start there to determine if it is a problem


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Hi there thanks so much for trying to help

Car: Toyota Rav 4 --2012 model
Head Unit: OEM --- orignal head unit
Speakers : Hybird Audio Legatia L1 pro and Hertz Mille Woofer 1600Ml-- Speakers are placed in the door like where the original speakers are
Sub: arc series 12d4----1 subs--350rms/700 ( non vented closed design )
No Dynamat

I do not see any issue that could be from the head unit

I hope this gives you an idea about my setup, and if I can do anything to at least make it sound decently


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

hykbooks said:


> Hi there thanks so much for trying to help
> 
> Car: Toyota Rav 4 --2012 model
> Head Unit: OEM --- orignal head unit
> ...



What audio package is the stock stereo? Base, JBL, etc? What are you using to grab signal from the stock stereo to aftermarket?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

My questioning might seem redundant, but what I'm trying to get at is despite your thinking that the OEM headunit may work fine (it does as long as it's all stock), there may very well be some funky response issues when trying to upgrade as Toyota somewhat detunes their headunits so as not to overtax the speakers. You may want to stick with the stock deck, but that may also be the source of issue unless you're using something that can fix it before it enters the DSP as the Helix is not equipped to fix an altered incoming signal. Replacing the headunit can really solve a lot of audio issues.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> What audio package is the stock stereo? Base, JBL, etc? What are you using to grab signal from the stock stereo to aftermarket?


I am sorry the question is a bit not clear to me, its what came with the car the HU is an unknown brand completely. 

If it makes it any easier for you to help, I can use the AUX out of helix and use one of my digital player I have, like a fiio x5 dap, if you find that my HU could be problematic.

I like the idea to use my dap as source unit more than my head unit anyway, could that be an option to move forward and forget about the head unit, also the idea to replace the HU is out of question as I send the car for service every month to where I am renting it from and they will not allow change of a HU, so every month I remove the sub so they will not know I installed anything in the car. Also I hid the helix under the seat and covered it so they will not notice it

I have the umik mic some mentioned here, but I am so bad in using REW as it just gibberish to me. 

I am so sorry for sounding so illiterate, I tried watching youtube and stuff, but all this is just too much for me to follow. Once a guy helped me tune my car he was in Sweden and I am here, he setup up REW via team viewer and guided me step by step that was when I had the helix pro days and 3 amps and I was having 3 ways and dynamat. 

Wish I could get hold of him again to help


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

hykbooks said:


> I am sorry the question is a bit not clear to me, its what came with the car the HU is an unknown brand completely.
> 
> If it makes it any easier for you to help, I can use the AUX out of helix and use one of my digital player I have, like a fiio x5 dap, if you find that my HU could be problematic.
> 
> I like the idea to use my dap as source unit more than my head unit anyway, could that be an option to move forward and forget about the head unit, also the idea to replace the HU is out of question as I send the car for service every month to where I am renting it from and they will not allow change of a HU, so every month I remove the sub so they will not know I installed anything in the car. Also I hid the helix under the seat and covered it so they will not notice it


Yes, that would be a good way to test that the headunit is sending an altered signal. Just be aware that since the DSP has been tuned to the headunit, it may not be optimal for anything else with a good signal, so a retune may be in order with the DAP. However, if you're able to get a good tune using the DAP as a source, welp.... 

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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> Yes, that would be a good way to test that the headunit is sending an altered signal. Just be aware that since the DSP has been tuned to the headunit, it may not be optimal for anything else with a good signal, so a retune may be in order with the DAP. However, if you're able to get a good tune using the DAP as a source, welp....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


No i am not able to get a good sound as well using the dap, my whole issue is tuning. 

I have 2 separate tuned setups on the helix different from each other, one for the HU and the other for the dap

Both are bad


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

hykbooks said:


> No i am not able to get a good sound as well using the dap, my whole issue is tuning.
> 
> I have 2 separate tuned setups on the helix different from each other, one for the HU and the other for the dap
> 
> Both are bad


I understand, but I would not hold the one with the headunit as valid for now. What tuning steps were taken with the DAP? Did you start from scratch or augment the tune from the headunit? 

Lots of questions, I know, but details are necessary to get to the root of the issue even if your tuning skills aren't that great. Just hang in there as we try to help you. 

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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Your car is similar to mine, and your set up is similar to mine as well and i have done ZERO tuning and mine sounds great. I mean its not SQ show great, and i am sure if someone like Skiezr sat in the car he may cringe a little...BUT, my point is there is no way you should not be able to get really good sound out of it. Would you be willing to send me your AXP file and i could load it into the software and see what it sounds like in my car?


Assuming you can load a MK1 AXP file into a MK2 system? And vice versa i am willing to send you mine to try.

Mine is set up as follows.

Tweeters are HP at 2500hz with 24db LR filters and i have cut the output of both at 2.75db

Mids are LP at the same 2500hz with 24db LR filters and i have cut the output of both at 2.75db and HP at 80hz with the same 24db LR filter.

sub is a 10" ported driver and low passed at 80hz at 12db LR and HP at 24hz at 12db. And the output gain is raised by 3db.

I have set the T/a manually using a tape measure...but no other tuning and it sounds awesome. I am sure it can get a LOT better once i am ready to tune it, but for now it is great.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Oh boy.... 

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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Bayboy said:


> Oh boy....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


huh?


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## BillC (Feb 26, 2017)

sareea said:


> I understand you man... But believe it or not... If you do it all yourself it is hard. It is not a plug-n-listen journey.
> When you enter a car audio journey you need t7o allocate money to basic installations and pro help when needed... As others said here take it to a pro, pay some money to sort it out and your done.
> But choose that pro wisely.



No pun intended, but even the most advanced car audio systems are extremely simple to wire up it is basic 12 volt system. And does not get much simpler when it comes to dealing with electricity. Now having said that ... it is in a car and attention to wire routing and component mounting is critical. And I think most of us on this website understand that. It sounds like maybe the OP was over his head from the start, and now has a significant amount of money wrapped up in a system he cannot get to work right, probably made some mistakes and possibly damaged a cable or connector... and I say this because I have been the over zealous guy that spent a pile of my hard earned cash and haphazardly went about installing it and made mistakes. Best advice I can give anyone, even a professional installer is read read read! Become intimately familiar with the car and system you are going to be working on.. then take your time and proceed slowly. And if it's your daily driver that you cannot be without.. then write down a list and plan the work in stages.. and things will go much smoother.. then in the future if you have a problem you will be intimately familiar with the system and better prepared to troubleshoot the install/ system.... then tuning brings on a whole new discussion. I am referring only to hardware here.. but to say its hard?? Um no, no it is not. Its basic electricity and rough wiring in the tight confines of a car. Here is an example of being over zealous. I ran speaker wires in my Volkswagen a few years ago, right on top of the wheel speed sensor wires and introduced a humm into the system when the car was at highway speed. Now had I become familiar with the cars wiring before hand i would have known to not lay speaker cable along side it, as wheel speed sensors are a reluctor and pickup, basically creates a low voltage ac sine wave and it can cause an eleftromageneric field around it.. hmm maybe that's why the factory took so much care routing it away from other wiring?? See where I am going with this? And I have a background in electric system troubleshooting, and repair. But in my rush to hear the results of the money I spent I made mistakes. Sorry but it sounds like the OP got in over his head unprepared and should backup and recheck everything or take it to a pro as others have said


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

let me just get the hardware installation out of the way, as it was done by a very professional installer and used best wires and everything is installed very well

its now all about tuning the car


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> Your car is similar to mine, and your set up is similar to mine as well and i have done ZERO tuning and mine sounds great. I mean its not SQ show great, and i am sure if someone like Skiezr sat in the car he may cringe a little...BUT, my point is there is no way you should not be able to get really good sound out of it. Would you be willing to send me your AXP file and i could load it into the software and see what it sounds like in my car?
> 
> 
> Assuming you can load a MK1 AXP file into a MK2 system? And vice versa i am willing to send you mine to try.
> ...



Hi I will send mine tomorrow to you so you can take a look


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> I understand, but I would not hold the one with the headunit as valid for now. What tuning steps were taken with the DAP? Did you start from scratch or augment the tune from the headunit?
> 
> Lots of questions, I know, but details are necessary to get to the root of the issue even if your tuning skills aren't that great. Just hang in there as we try to help you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


yes i started form scratch using the dap in tuning the car


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

hykbooks said:


> Hi I will send mine tomorrow to you so you can take a look


email to tim.morton (at ) comcast.net


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

I think in my setup the bass is tight and hits hard and is good enough in my setting. My main problem is the mids and highs. I used a measuring tape to set TA. I set the crossover at 80Hz for subs, the hertz mille from 75Hz-4Khz and the Tweeters from 3.5 Khz to 20khz, at a slope of 12 using all butterworth . For now I disabled the director and will think bout fixing it later. 

Maybe a background of me would help, I am big into headphone and iems, were I am used to very expensive headphones like audeze, and hifiman headphones and great dacs like chord Qutest and digital players like astell and kern. I am found at head fi under the user name Sound Eq, and I appreciate good sound quality

Yes I am very illiterate in car audio and installations, but I understand frequency curves and where usually instruments played are on the frequency curve

With car audio, I had so many equipments and spent so much money, I started with the first helix, then bought helix pro, then alpine 800 and so one, and had bought one of the worst 3 ways which were the focal KrX3 or whatever it was called, then people told me about Hertz Mille, so had that as well, then people told me about hybrid audio and so on. Hek I even bought the sony P80 and then P99 for my old car, I just I was literally taken advantage of that I sold everything for pennies in frustration and just kept the hybrid audio tweeters and hertz Mille, and when I changed cars, and heard about P six, I thought that is interesting, at its a one device do all, lowered my expectation to try to achieve good and not great but no avail. And here we are again starting at ground zero


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

miniSQ said:


> Your car is similar to mine, and your set up is similar to mine as well and i have done ZERO tuning and mine sounds great.


So no EQ whatsoever? Just flat across the board?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Without a graph to see why, shallow slopes and overlapping crossover points usually aren't a good idea. Phase issues in the crossover region plus left & right EQ possibly not being optimal..... I would consider revamping those settings.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

OneGun said:


> So no EQ whatsoever? Just flat across the board?


Actually there is an eq of course, and I spent hours trying by ear equiping everything, but I am not getting close. Car audio is so different than equing headphones which I do alot.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

OneGun said:


> So no EQ whatsoever? Just flat across the board?


so far that is correct. Its a reasonably new install, and i have had a couple of hook up issues and equipment swaps. So i want to get everything nailed down on the install including gains and XO points before i take the time to learn how to use my audiofrog calibration mic.

Been very busy at work this summer with the Vail take over of the Resort i work for so brain power is being spread thin

So its not set flat by choice, i just havent for the bones set right yet.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Now there is one thing, which I guess I need to do is to take measurements. Now the irony the aux in of the HU is not working to make a loop measurement with REW. Like a friend of mine used to tell me to do when he guided me with my old car 

Anyway I do not want to use the HU anyways.

I was wondering if maybe anyone can help me getting REW setup with my umik and tell me how to take measurement, and where to place the crossovers when I do the measurements. REW to me is so complicated in setting up the mic.

So after we loot at the measurements we maybe can take it from there

Also I wish I could install dynamat but that is a no no as I mentioned as its a rent a car

Can I ask should I change the title of my thread, as I wrote it in frustration and I feel I am coming across as an annoying guy


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

hykbooks said:


> My main problem is the mids and highs. I used a measuring tape to set TA. I set the crossover at 80Hz for subs, the hertz mille from 75Hz-4Khz and the Tweeters from 3.5 Khz to 20khz, at a slope of 12 using all butterworth .


i really dislike these settings and i think they could be causing your problems.

Have you tried more standard XO settings?

Lower the XO point on between your mids and tweeters below 3k, don't over lap them and try 24db linkwitz riley.

then mute the subwoofer, and lower the tweeter gain on the amp so you hear predominately the mid...find the level where the mid sounds the best and then raise the tweeter level until it starts to get too harsh and back it off so the mid and tweeters sound good. Then bring the sub in and see how it sounds.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> i really dislike these settings and i think they could be causing your problems.
> 
> Have you tried more standard XO settings?
> 
> ...


you mean i should not use any eq when i do that


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

hykbooks said:


> you mean i should not use any eq when i do that


I didn't say anything about EQ, because that is nothing i have done yet. I am just saying before you EQ, you should get it to sound really really good without EQ. And i think a better starting place would be the settings i suggested.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> I didn't say anything about EQ, because that is nothing i have done yet. I am just saying before you EQ, you should get it to sound really really good without EQ. And i think a better starting place would be the settings i suggested.


I never thought that you can get a great sound without using the eq, I will do as you suggested, but I am surprised you are getting a great sound without any eq, as my understanding was that there is lots of sound reflection in cars and eq is a must


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Gotta go finish the yard as I told myself I'd leave this for a while, but before I go I have to stress this as much as possible and you can go from there, or discard it. *Measure, measure measure!* That can't be stressed enough. Picking arbitrary crossover points or even slopes for that matter is just as bad as blindly sliding EQ bands. An RTA no matter which one you choose is a very handy tool to avoid setup pitfalls such as this. Before just lowering the crossover points, find out where.. find the limits, find the acoustic slope (not just electrical) and you will see where you need to be on both mid and tweet. The same can be done for sub and mid. You will spot nulls & peaks that may give clues to why changes should or shouldn't be made and where to make them whether it be in the crossover or EQ. *Measurements are very important!* That's if you want to make good use of a DSP.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> Gotta go finish the yard as I told myself I'd leave this for a while, but before I go I have to stress this as much as possible and you can go from there, or discard it. *Measure, measure measure!* That can't be stressed enough. Picking arbitrary crossover points or even slopes for that matter is just as bad as blindly sliding EQ bands. An RTA no matter which one you choose is a very handy tool to avoid setup pitfalls such as this. Before just lowering the crossover points, find out where.. find the limits, find the acoustic slope (not just electrical) and you will see where you need to be on both mid and tweet. The same can be done for sub and mid. You will spot nulls & peaks that may give clues to why changes should or shouldn't be made and where to make them whether it be in the crossover or EQ. *Measurements are very important!* That's if you want to make good use of a DSP.


I agree with this as well, but REW is complicated for me, and this is why I was wondering if anyone can help me set up the mic with REW , using team viewer so i can do measurements, as I tried myself and I was in a mess

And how to do the measurements maybe if anyone has time and give me few minutes tomorrow over whatsapp, that would be amazing

Now that the AUx in of the HU, can I use the dap to make measurements


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Bayboy said:


> Gotta go finish the yard as I told myself I'd leave this for a while, but before I go I have to stress this as much as possible and you can go from there, or discard it. *Measure, measure measure!* That can't be stressed enough. Picking arbitrary crossover points or even slopes for that matter is just as bad as blindly sliding EQ bands. An RTA no matter which one you choose is a very handy tool to avoid setup pitfalls such as this. Before just lowering the crossover points, find out where.. find the limits, find the acoustic slope (not just electrical) and you will see where you need to be on both mid and tweet. The same can be done for sub and mid. You will spot nulls & peaks that may give clues to why changes should or shouldn't be made and where to make them whether it be in the crossover or EQ. *Measurements are very important!* That's if you want to make good use of a DSP.


i agree with this too...but i think you can get 85% to your goal with your brain and your ears. I think he is only 30% to his goal and trying to EQ with his ears from a bad set up. I also do not think there are many people who can EQ without measuring, which is why haven't gone there yet.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

hykbooks said:


> I agree with this as well, but REW is complicated for me, and this is why I was wondering if anyone can help me set up the mic with REW , using team viewer so i can do measurements, as I tried myself and I was in a mess


If REW is too complicated (it definitely can be for a beginner!) and you fail to get help, try a simple to setup RTA (Helix software has one built in). Try a lower resolution to begin with so you don't get too caught up on very fine details. Nothing wrong with smoothing. You can advance to more complex tuning later on.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

hykbooks said:


> I agree with this as well, but REW is complicated for me, and this is why I was wondering if anyone can help me set up the mic with REW , using team viewer so i can do measurements, as I tried myself and I was in a mess
> 
> And how to do the measurements maybe if anyone has time and give me few minutes tomorrow over whatsapp, that would be amazing
> 
> Now that the AUx in of the HU, can I use the dap to make measurements


Skiezr has a step by step video on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyTkS0iNBtk


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> Skiezr has a step by step video on youtube...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyTkS0iNBtk


That video is good for people who have a basic understanding of REW or who have had a "little" success with it.It is NOT a beginners video as Nick talks very fast in it and at times sounds irritated.He also assumes a person already has a house curve loaded in which is another complicated aspect of REW.It's definitely a much more advanced video than the title claims.He is better off reading through Hanatsu's thread which will get him close and then watching videos like Nick and Kyle made. 

People who are first learning about how to use a DSP and take measurements,etc are very intimidated.They're not calm and thinking clearly in the car.The microphone is falling around while they're trying to get a sweep to play,at the same time wondering how to use the RTA and is it better?Forehead starts sweating and causing irritation.Settings are wrong causing further questions which lead to more anxiety then the car battery dies and the wife starts calling him in for dinner in frustration.The list goes on and on and on.......and YOU ALL know what I'm talking about.We've all been there so before giving this guy advice start thinking about it from his pespective.He needs baby steps first....


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> That video is good for people who have a basic understanding of REW or who have had a "little" success with it.It is NOT a beginners video as Nick talks very fast in it and at times sounds irritated.He also assumes a person already has a house curve loaded in which is another complicated aspect of REW.It's definitely a much more advanced video than the title claims.He is better off reading through Hanatsu's thread which will get him close and then watching videos like Nick and Kyle made.
> 
> People who are first learning about how to use a DSP and take measurements,etc are very intimidated.They're not calm and thinking clearly in the car.The microphone is falling around while they're trying to get a sweep to play,at the same time wondering how to use the RTA and is it better?Forehead starts sweating and causing irritation.Settings are wrong causing further questions which lead to more anxiety then the car battery dies and the wife starts calling him in for dinner in frustration.The list goes on and on and on.......and YOU ALL know what I'm talking about.We've all been there so before giving this guy advice start thinking about it from his pespective.He needs baby steps first....



Lotsa win in this post, you're on point. And yes... the settings... the fk'n settings... awash in a SEA OF SETTINGS!!!

And yeah, Skizer's video shows the tweets, but what are the settings for the mids/subs?

BTW, I've gone through REW tuning a few times now and after all the EQ filters are set, my curves look damn close to the target house curves and, guess what... my system sounds like ****. 

NFC what I'm doing wrong. Fk me running.


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

OneGun said:


> Lotsa win in this post, you're on point. And yes... the settings... the fk'n settings... awash in a SEA OF SETTINGS!!!
> 
> And yeah, Skizer's video shows the tweets, but what are the settings for the mids/subs?
> 
> ...


Had something similar to this.Mids playing together sounded pretty good after EQ but there was an annoying dip at 350.Tried EQing it out and crossing differently but couldn't budge it.Then for giggles I inverted the left driver and bam,the dip was gone.Graph looked prettier(flatter)but the stage sounded like sh%#. Hollow and unbalanced.Reinverted it and left it alone.Bottom line is that your ears are what matter in the end.You can use FR's to get into the ballpark but the polishing should be done with your ears.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Just to make a note.. my video wasnt meant to be a full tutorial. My video was meant to be quick and simple-ish so that someone whos semi-familiar with tuning and rew could get it right. It wasnt meant to get someone who has no experience in the tuning department to follow. That video would be hours and hours long. Its just showing you how to use rew's auto eq and how to make sure your doing it right.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

I think this is simply too complicated for me to do alone, unless someone can use team viewer to make all setting on my laptop and whatsapp to guide me for step by step

I do not know anymore what to do.

I will just try Minisq suggestions for now.

Why did I do this to myself I do not know . Yes I like music and aimed to have a dsp but I am among the worst to follow such technical things unless it is step by step by step detailed form A-Z


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Before anyone can properly help you, the first thing needed is a measurement. So there is the first thing you must work on. Doesn't matter if you use a dumbed down version of TrueRTA or any other version. Get a measurement of each driver playing pink noise. 

Skizer's tutorial is for people that have some experience and are familiar with REW. Before that, I found Kyle's tutorial to be more beginner based and understandable. He has several sequenced videos showing actual in-car tuning. Subscribe to his channel and watch them several times before giving it a go. I would repeatedly play/pause while following along with my own laptop/DSP, making notes where needed and that really helped. 


https://youtu.be/-i8cxJaDyjg


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hykbooks said:


> I think this is simply too complicated for me to do alone, unless someone can use team viewer to make all setting on my laptop and whatsapp to guide me for step by step
> 
> I do not know anymore what to do.
> 
> ...


I offer this to others who are in your boat. Shoot me a message 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## ominous (Apr 21, 2017)

OneGun said:


> BTW, I've gone through REW tuning a few times now and after all the EQ filters are set, my curves look damn close to the target house curves and, guess what... my system sounds like ****.
> 
> NFC what I'm doing wrong. Fk me running.


It's helpful when tuning to think of a house curve as a guide, not an actual result to try to emulate. You can try different curves to find one that's close, then modify it to match your specific tastes. 

I'm not sure what DSP you're using (the Dayton?), but I found using the presets very helpful. My DSP has six presets and I use them like a "undo" button. I do a tune then save that as a preset. I listen for a couple of days, then copy that tune to a new preset and make any adjustments needed to the new (copied) preset. I listen for a couple more days, then I'll copy that preset and so forth and so on. They're a great way to compare separate tuning sessions. If I like it I'll keep it and use it to make the next improvement. If not, I delete it, go back to the previous preset and try something else. The current tune I listen to is basically a progression of continuous improvements I've made over the last couple months. 

It's a long process, but the experimentation is invaluable in learning how to tune.


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

optimaprime said:


> how do you do that? it only for p series?


Auto tune is a part of the software and works with any of our processors. You just need a USB microphone set up for your computer and it works in the RTA tab of the software.

The RTA can be used as a standard RTA, it can be used to help you see the adjustments necessary to hit a preset curve (house or your own design), or it can be used to automatically set eq while you sit and hold the microphone. It can be used to adjust your chosen channels and your chosen frequency range.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

ominous said:


> It's a long process, but the experimentation is invaluable in learning how to tune.


The way I see it, learning something new can never be a bad thing. I try to keep this fact in the back of my mind, especially when things aren’t working out or if I mess something up.

Learning anything new and complex is truly an awesome thing for our minds. There’s no telling how many other things learning something like tuning a stereo will benefit us in the future.


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

ominous said:


> It's helpful when tuning to think of a house curve as a guide, not an actual result to try to emulate. You can try different curves to find one that's close, then modify it to match your specific tastes.
> 
> I'm not sure what DSP you're using (the Dayton?), but I found using the presets very helpful. My DSP has six presets and I use them like a "undo" button. I do a tune then save that as a preset. I listen for a couple of days, then copy that tune to a new preset and make any adjustments needed to the new (copied) preset. I listen for a couple more days, then I'll copy that preset and so forth and so on. They're a great way to compare separate tuning sessions. If I like it I'll keep it and use it to make the next improvement. If not, I delete it, go back to the previous preset and try something else. The current tune I listen to is basically a progression of continuous improvements I've made over the last couple months.
> 
> It's a long process, but the experimentation is invaluable in learning how to tune.



Yes, I'm using the Dayton 408. And I understand that house curves are just a guideline, but I must be doing something very wrong (settings, perhaps) because the sound of my tune after I'm done isn't even close to acceptable. 

But yes, I know it's going to be a long process, that's clear.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

OneGun said:


> Yes, I'm using the Dayton 408. And I understand that house curves are just a guideline, but I must be doing something very wrong (settings, perhaps) because the sound of my tune after I'm done isn't even close to acceptable.
> 
> But yes, I know it's going to be a long process, that's clear.


Doesn't have to be a long process. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> Just to make a note.. my video wasnt meant to be a full tutorial. My video was meant to be quick and simple-ish so that someone whos semi-familiar with tuning and rew could get it right. It wasnt meant to get someone who has no experience in the tuning department to follow. That video would be hours and hours long. Its just showing you how to use rew's auto eq and how to make sure your doing it right.


Yeah,it's quite obvious the video is not for beginners when right in the middle the teacher says......"You're going to have to figure it out"


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

OneGun said:


> ominous said:
> 
> 
> > It's helpful when tuning to think of a house curve as a guide, not an actual result to try to emulate. You can try different curves to find one that's close, then modify it to match your specific tastes.
> ...


Have you checked phase on all your drivers!?


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> Have you checked phase on all your drivers!?


Admittedly I haven't done this with any app/tool, but I'm very cautious and double/triple check my "+" and "-" connections during installs. 

But my sound, although I don't know exactly what out-of-phase condition would produce, is not likely to be the culprit in my opinion. 

The sounds of the bass/treble/mids are not even close to realistic. In most cases, it's totally bright/tinny/empty... a complete mess. 

Again though... I'm not certain of the severity an out-of-phase condition would result in but, in my mind, I'm thinking there's no way that could be the issue... at least not any big part of the issue. 

My last tune, which I did a couple days ago, I did individual drivers using pink noise, the "Jazzi" curve, with my MiniDSP UMIK-1. 

Each driver's eq'ing seemed to go pretty smoothly. I applied the recommended filters, then retested and was getting pretty encouraged to see the results going the right way... curves started matching right up and at the end, REW was only recommending the slightest tweaks. 

But lo and behold, once I tested it with music, it sounded like I was listening to and old 8 track through someone's flip phone. 

So then I spent a good 15 minutes tuning by ear doing some absolute basics (boost the bass a bit, roll of the highs). It sounds light years better after that than the 30 minutes I spent doing the REW tune. So based on that, my guess is it isn't something inherent in my setup/install, but instead a mistake I'm making using REW. 

It's good times.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JH1973 said:


> Yeah,it's quite obvious the video is not for beginners when right in the middle the teacher says......"You're going to have to figure it out"


lol.. i made that video on a whim one day when i woke up to 3 different people messaging me asking me about how to tune in some way shape or form. So what i did was i got up, grabbed a bowl of cereal, fired up the microphone and recording software, and just went with it :laugh:


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> JH1973 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah,it's quite obvious the video is not for beginners when right in the middle the teacher says......"You're going to have to figure it out"
> ...


What kind of cereal did you eat that night?Don't lie either and say Wheaties or some other crap like that,now what kind was it?


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

JH1973 said:


> What kind of cereal did you eat that night?Don't lie either and say Wheaties or some other crap like that,now what kind was it?




I am
Curious to I am learning to tune but damn I love me some PB captain crunch anytime . Atleast on my cheat day 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

cinnamon toast crunch


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

Pretty good choices,both of ya....myself I'm a Life guy,regular or cinnamon.Cocoa Pebbles are pretty righteous too.


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

OneGun said:


> JH1973 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you checked phase on all your drivers!?
> ...


I don't know,something's not right.If you have descent gear on a descent install and you've done the things in REW that you'd mentioned then your system should not sound like a tin can 8 track player.Your speakers could be in horrible locations and it should still sound better than you're describing.

I don't know that Dayton software but if it's possible try inverting phase on your mids one at a time and then both.Do the same with sub and tweeters.Everything you're describing sounds like phase issues or possibly less than optimal gear.


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

well tried using Minisq suggestion for crossovers and playing around with gains. But not an optimal result

Can anyone suggest next move that is easy for a beginner

REW to be set up by myself and use it is way too ward 

Also as I mentioned since my aux in of the HU is not working, how can I go about and make measurements using a dap.

I have the umik to take measurements, but I do not know how to start


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## rlee777 (Apr 28, 2009)

OneGun said:


> Admittedly I haven't done this with any app/tool, but I'm very cautious and double/triple check my "+" and "-" connections during installs.
> 
> But my sound, although I don't know exactly what out-of-phase condition would produce, is not likely to be the culprit in my opinion.
> 
> ...


I have the REW/MiniDSP 2x4 setup and also struggled with a lifeless sound, even though the final RTA curve matched the target house curve well and was smooth and flat. 

Found the problem. The REW AutoEQ function, though fast and easy to get a good match to the target HC, was creating WAY too many opposing narrow (Q=5) EQ filters next to each other. For example, filter 4 would be a 8db boost at 1,034Hz with a Q=5 filter, while filter 5 would be a -7.7db/Q=5/1,215Hz drop. Sure the final curve was "flat and smooth" but these adjacent filters cause havoc with the sound.

Suggestion: Use the AutoEQ function to get a ballpark tune, then go through each EQ FILTER and eliminate these narrow, opposing adjacent filters that REW suggests. The predicted EQ curve may not be perfectly aligned to the HC target, but the final sound is less processed. Too much EQ with aggressive filters can definitely be a problem.

Here is an article that highlights this though the author is concerned with sub EQ: https://www.hometheatershack.com/fo...target-levels-hard-knee-house-curve-long.html


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

rlee777 said:


> I have the REW/MiniDSP 2x4 setup and also struggled with a lifeless sound, even though the final RTA curve matched the target house curve well and was smooth and flat.
> 
> Found the problem. The REW AutoEQ function, though fast and easy to get a good match to the target HC, was creating WAY too many opposing narrow (Q=5) EQ filters next to each other. For example, filter 4 would be a 8db boost at 1,034Hz with a Q=5 filter, while filter 5 would be a -7.7db/Q=5/1,215Hz drop. Sure the final curve was "flat and smooth" but these adjacent filters cause havoc with the sound.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. 

FWIW, while I have yet to tackle (or even try) REW, I think I may have produced such an effect in the process of trying to manually tame audibly sharp subwoofer peaks and dips/nulls (that I was hearing via an online tone generator) by creating opposing sharp peaks and dips via manual miniDSP 2x4 PEQ settings. In short, the more I messed with it, and the more radical the adjacent PEQ peaks and dips, the worse it sounded (tone sweep response seemed quite smooth, but music was another matter...).

The thing is, it didn't sound bad without EQ (while tone sweeps suggested that it should), and in the end it seems that all I really needed was the right subwoofer low-pass and mains high-pass.

While I doubt that any of this will be of any use to the OP's situation, I thought I'd share my admittedly purely anecdotal experience in the off chance that it might be of some use to others.

Great thread.


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> I don't know,something's not right.If you have descent gear on a descent install and you've done the things in REW that you'd mentioned then your system should not sound like a tin can 8 track player.Your speakers could be in horrible locations and it should still sound better than you're describing.
> 
> I don't know that Dayton software but if it's possible try inverting phase on your mids one at a time and then both.Do the same with sub and tweeters.Everything you're describing sounds like phase issues or possibly less than optimal gear.


I'm running an Alpine iLX-207 > Dayton DSP-408 > Infinity Reference 4555a > Pioneer TS-Z65CH components > Rockford Fosgate R2S-1x10. 

Doors are all CLD treated, all wiring is 16 gauge Monoprice OFC or Crutchfield 4ga. OFC.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Chris12 said:


> The way I see it, learning something new can never be a bad thing. I try to keep this fact in the back of my mind, especially when things aren’t working out or if I mess something up.
> 
> Learning anything new and complex is truly an awesome thing for our minds. There’s no telling how many other things learning something like tuning a stereo will benefit us in the future.


Others say ignorance is bliss.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Others say ignorance is bliss.


Here’s a good one I head today - 

“It takes many nails to build a coffin,
but only one screw to fill it..”


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Chris12 said:


> Here’s a good one I head today -
> 
> “It takes many nails to build a coffin,
> but only one screw to fill it..”


isn't that many nails to build a crib?


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

miniSQ said:


> isn't that many nails to build a crib?


LOL That's a lot more along the lines of what I was thinking.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

miniSQ said:


> isn't that many nails to build a crib?


(Only takes one thing to screw you over and you’re done)

It’s a little twist on the old classic, I heard it on Sirius XM driving today - quote from some 80’s rocker


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

OneGun said:


> I'm running an Alpine iLX-207 > Dayton DSP-408 > Infinity Reference 4555a > Pioneer TS-Z65CH components > Rockford Fosgate R2S-1x10.
> 
> Doors are all CLD treated, all wiring is 16 gauge Monoprice OFC or Crutchfield 4ga. OFC.


Doesn't sound like the gear then.I don't know much about phase and in fact have been trying to learn more about it lately.I just know that when I sit and mess with inverting drivers it definitely changes the sound in many ways.Gets hollower,fuller,stage moves,etc..In my Sentra I've got both mids inverted and both subs inverted.Tweeters are normal(0). That seems to be the optimal setting for my stage and frankly I'm VERY happy with how it sounds.I'm inquiring more about phase with regards to the Terrain build I did recently.It sounds good but I know it can sound WAY better with the right tune.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JH1973 said:


> Doesn't sound like the gear then.I don't know much about phase and in fact have been trying to learn more about it lately.I just know that when I sit and mess with inverting drivers it definitely changes the sound in many ways.Gets hollower,fuller,stage moves,etc..In my Sentra I've got both mids inverted and both subs inverted.Tweeters are normal(0). That seems to be the optimal setting for my stage and frankly I'm VERY happy with how it sounds.I'm inquiring more about phase with regards to the Terrain build I did recently.It sounds good but I know it can sound WAY better with the right tune.


phase is very simple. If you want i'll give you a call tomorrow and explain.


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> phase is very simple. If you want i'll give you a call tomorrow and explain.


I'll take you up on that.Maybe I can give you some pointers about how to deal with that "nagging" girlfriend whose biggest complaint against you is probably......"You NEVER listen to me!!" 

You know I do have 20 years on you


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## hykbooks (May 27, 2017)

Hello everyone, since I see that my original post ended up being kinda forgotten, and people advise was to still try to figure out software and such, which as I mentioned before I will not be able to do anyway. I want to ask is there not a system that is simple plug and play with a built in amp that tunes it self by just pressing a button, like for example the alpine 800 was kinda good with that, when I owned it. Wish alpine 800 had a built in amp for my speakers, I would have gone back to it.

Also I read about this clarion full digital system

https://www.clarion.com/us/en/products-personal/fds-system/

Wonder how user friendly that would be for someone who really can not dive into REW and measurement taking like myself. So any feedback to that clarion


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

A product like that doesnt exist. Might be time to hand it off to a professional if you want it sounding good and done properly without needing to spend months of time doing research

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

With a basic setup of crossover and time delay the Helix will autotune with the software, all you need is a microphone plugged into your computer. It works quite well, although a good set of ears and more time can certainly get you better results.


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## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

I have heard that the Helix DSP Pro Mk2 will do auto tune. I have also heard of other amps, DSPs, and HU's that also have an autotune feature. However, as to how good they do, I cannot say. 

This Kicker Amp is a new product that reportedly does a decent job. 


If I were you though, I'd just start over with all EQ flat and just get your crossovers set and maybe TA. In one of my vehicles, I have an active front stage (2-way) and just a rear sub. It's got a DSP (Dayton), but I don't have time to do REW tuning, so I just set the crossovers and TA. ALL EQ is flat and it sounds pretty damn good.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

dobslob said:


> With a basic setup of crossover and time delay the Helix will autotune with the software, all you need is a microphone plugged into your computer. It works quite well, although a good set of ears and more time can certainly get you better results.


are there instructions posted someplace for this?


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## tjframe (Jun 17, 2015)

Bayboy said:


> Personally, I love the Helix but find the Director more unnecessary than needed. I have a Helix in each vehicle and have never found the need to include the Director for either one.



Same here. Have a DSP pro and tried the director for about a week and decided I just didn't need it because it was very finicky. I had the remote installed in a small factory center roof compartment above the rear-view mirror. 

I was planning on having a tune for driver only, and a setting for when I had passengers, but I just tune and time align it to split the difference, and everything now targets a spot right between the two front seats. Works fine for my needs. 

Once I roll down the window a tad, or open the sunroof, suddenly all those subtle changes get drowned out anyway .


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

miniSQ said:


> are there instructions posted someplace for this?


http://audiotec-fischer.de.dedivirt284.your-server.de/media/pdf/4c/6d/b3/ATF_Sound_Tuning_Magazine-DSP_Special_Vol2_Web59e70d008e6b1.pdf

Page 60. I think you’ll need the compatible Helix mic.


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## anr11 (Nov 18, 2018)

Long time lurker, first time poster. 

I by no means consider myself a pro but do have lots of years (decades) experience working with lots of different equipment in several cars I have owned over the years. I dove headfirst into the world of DSP car audio tuning a couple years back and have also often found myself frustrated and completely scrapping hours-long tuning results and restarting from scratch. 

What has helped me more than anything was running across Andy Wehmeyer's guide entitled, "A Straightforward Stereo Tuning Process and Some Notes About Why It Works". I don't know the forum rules here regarding the posting of links so I will refrain from linking it directly but if you Google it you will find it easily. It is available in the Test Gear section of the Audiofrog homepage. Andy does an excellet job explaining things so that even a novice I think could understand. @ the OP, I think you will find most useful the REW setup guide in which he explains the process in detail with screenshots starting on page 38.


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

anr11 said:


> Long time lurker, first time poster.
> 
> I by no means consider myself a pro but do have lots of years (decades) experience working with lots of different equipment in several cars I have owned over the years. I dove headfirst into the world of DSP car audio tuning a couple years back and have also often found myself frustrated and completely scrapping hours-long tuning results and restarting from scratch.
> 
> What has helped me more than anything was running across Andy Wehmeyer's guide entitled, "A Straightforward Stereo Tuning Process and Some Notes About Why It Works". I don't know the forum rules here regarding the posting of links so I will refrain from linking it directly but if you Google it you will find it easily. It is available in the Test Gear section of the Audiofrog homepage. Andy does an excellet job explaining things so that even a novice I think could understand. @ the OP, I think you will find most useful the REW setup guide in which he explains the process in detail with screenshots starting on page 38.


https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf


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## OCD66 (Apr 2, 2017)

Grinder said:


> https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf


And, the test gear is on sale. Andy makes it pretty easy. 
https://testgear.audiofrog.com/


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