# Audiofrog... Convince me



## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

all i hear about in the car audio industry is audiofrog. are they really that damn good? i swore when i bought this 2018 nissan altima that i was not going to put a ridiculously expensive system in this car. here we are climbing down that rabbit hole getting ready to do that dumb crap again. if i am going to spend the money... is audiofrog going to really make me happy? i listen to my music somewhat loud and it will be paired up with a stereo integrity rm15 sealed. i listen to mostly metal and "fun music". with this system i want to hear snappy double kick drum coming from the front.

i plan on doing audiofrog gb60 and gb15 in a 2-way powered by a Zapco st.6.sq. channels 1 and 2 will be for the GB 15, channels 3 through 6 bridged will be for the gb60.

my other choice is stevens audio sa-6 components

i have a brand new JL audio twk DSP not installed yet.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Dont forget about the GB 25. ?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

They're obviously good, but let's be fair... they're not the only ones on the market that are of value. Capability is provided by drivers but the final result lies in your ability to put together something and tune it. That said, a nice system can be had for less but it depends on the level you want to reach. Anyone that denies that is just riding...

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> Dont forget about the GB 25. ?


wrong. the gb15 is a large format tweeter. you do not need a gb25 to pair up with this 2-way for it to sound optimal.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> They're obviously good, but let's be fair... they're not the only ones on the market that are of value. Capability is provided by drivers but the final result lies in your ability to put together something and tune it. That said, a nice system can be had for less but it depends on the level you want to reach. Anyone that denies that is just riding...
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


you can't polish a turd. a DSP can only do so much. i just don't think that my pioneer TS-Z65 components are going to be able to make me happy. i don't know what the hell i was thinking buying these speakers especially with an aluminum dome tweeter. they sound absolutely terrible in my car. i understand, i don't have the DSP hooked up to them but i don't even want to try to give them a chance. i'd rather try to sell them here and go after the big guns


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Who said anything else is a turd?? But you obviously already have that bias that everything is so this whole topic becomes rather silly. What is there to convince with that train of thought? Nothing

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

No boss. 
I was making an attempt at humor and simply saying that if a 3 way was a consideration then the GB 25 would work really nice as a midrange. I know you said a 2 way so I was obviously joking.
That said, I dont think you would be dissapointed with the GB 60 GB 15 combination, but as Bayboy stated, installation is going to be key.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> No boss.
> I was making an attempt at humor and simply saying that if a 3 way was a consideration then the GB 25 would work really nice as a midrange. I know you said a 2 way so I was obviously joking.
> That said, I dont think you would be dissapointed with the GB 60 GB 15 combination, but as Bayboy stated, installation is going to be key.


my doors are sound deadened pretty well. the amp is probably not the absolute best but i'm sure i could do worse. my current issue is going to be tweeter location. right now i have my tweeters in the dash aiming at the windshield. it might work for these particular tweeters but id probably be better off getting some pods made for the gb15 if i go that route


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> Who said anything else is a turd?? But you obviously already have that bias that everything is so this whole topic becomes rather silly. What is there to convince with that train of thought? Nothing
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


i'm open to any and all suggestions and i apologize if i offended you


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm not offended at all, but let's look at the facts. You don't want to pay Frog tier prices, but you haven't maximized what you have either by not even giving them a fair chance with the DSP you have. 

Sure there's better, but it's also important to maximize what you have to see what needs improving. Until then you really don't know what you might be happy with and there's plenty of brands and tiers available to choose from

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> I'm not offended at all, but let's look at the facts. You don't want to pay Frog tier prices, but you haven't maximized what you have either by not even giving them a fair chance with the DSP you have.
> 
> Sure there's better, but it's also important to maximize what you have to see what needs improving. Until then you really don't know what you might be happy with and there's plenty of brands and tiers available to choose from
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


is it true that audiofrog is made in China?


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> is it true that audiofrog is made in China?


Yes, but that shouldnt dissaude you. My understanding is that bulild quality is stellar.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

A DSP can take mediocre speakers a LONG way. You might be really surprised by what you can do with a DSP and a microphone. Hell, I’d love to throw together a real “budget challenge” project just to prove this point. Even with the super basic DSP in my Kenwood head unit, I feel pretty confident that I can make a pretty decent 2-way front with really inexpensive speakers.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Kountz said:


> wrong. the gb15 is a large format tweeter. you do not need a gb25 to pair up with this 2-way for it to sound optimal.


GB60 GB25 and GB10 :0

the SA comps will also make you happy....but keep in mind these are SQ drivers and while they will get loud, if you are looking to play loud and louder most the time, you might want to save your money since you might not be able to appreciate them at super loud volumes.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> GB60 GB25 and GB10 :0
> 
> the SA comps will also make you happy....but keep in mind these are SQ drivers and while they will get loud, if you are looking to play loud and louder most the time, you might want to save your money since you might not be able to appreciate them at super loud volumes.


i just want to hear and feel the doubke kick drum in the front of the vehicle and the cymbale not sound like someone threw 10000 dimes in a dryer with a roll of aluminum foil.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Kountz said:


> i just want to hear and feel the doubke kick drum in the front of the vehicle and the cymbale not sound like someone threw 10000 dimes in a dryer with a roll of aluminum foil.


That will be mostly subwoofer and tuning.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

gijoe said:


> That will be mostly subwoofer and tuning.


when listening to primus i want to hear those bass guitar licks blend in perfectly with the kick drum like there is a miniature nuclear bomb going off in the bass guitar and drums.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> i just want to hear and feel the doubke kick drum in the front of the vehicle and the cymbale not sound like someone threw 10000 dimes in a dryer with a roll of aluminum foil.


Removal of any sibilance will be done with a DSP via high frequency attenuation and precise crossover implementation.
The key takeaway is that the digital signal processor is an *immensely* powerful tool when used properly.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> Removal of any sibilance will done with a DSP via high frequency attenuation and precise crossover implementation.
> The key takeaway is that the digital signal processor is an *immensely* powerful tool when used properly.


play this video in your car and turn this **** up. i want my **** to be pristine and badass


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> play this video in your car and turn this **** up. i want my **** to be pristine and badass


Interesting to say the least.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> Interesting to say the least.


this band uses 8 string guitars everything is megalo drop tuned and it's tight. i want a sound system in my car that can replicate what they do live but i don't want to spend $800,000 to do it LOL


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> this band uses 8 string guitars everything is megalo drop tuned and it's tight. i want a sound system in my car that can replicate what they do live but i don't want to spend $800,000 to do it LOL


Again your success will hinge upon proper installation and proper signal tuning via a capable DSP.
Pair that with extremely capable drivers like the AF GB series loudspeakers and you possess the recipe for sonic bliss.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

You don’t need audiofrog drivers to get the sound your looking for. I have changed out my front stage 7 times before giving in and putting a dsp in and I wish I had done it way earlier. Keep what you have and put the dsp in and tune it.

but it sound like you have already convinced yourself that audio frog is what you need. They are nice drivers but certainly not the only or “best drivers”. There is no such thing. Many drivers will give you what your after.

actually, tuning will do most of it along with the a great install.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> Interesting to say the least.


this is the kind of stuff i like to listen to in a sound system. i want the mids and bass to blend in perfectly where it sounds like im in the recording studio with this drummer. i want to feel my chest plate crack in half(and live)

at 5:01 marker... drumming kick drum bliss


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I fear your setting your self up for disappointment. Your going to need at least 8s in the doors as a part of a three way and some large subs with a lot of power. 
mans after you spend a ton of cash on audio frogs the next thread will be “I thought these were the end all of end all. I got ripped off”


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

Iamsecond said:


> I fear your setting your self up for disappointment. Your going to need at least 8s in the doors as a part of a three way and some large subs with a lot of power.
> mans after you spend a ton of cash on audio frogs the next thread will be “I thought these were the end all of end all. I got ripped off”


if i wanted to run 8's in my doors i'd have to completely rebuild the door.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

That’s my point. I get what your looking for but that is not cheap or easy. Your wanting to compete with large midbass drivers in a concert or studio environment and recreation that in a car. 
Just trying to help you not be disappointed. But a 6.5 and tweet with a couple of 12s are not going to do what your looking for no matter what brand they are.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Iamsecond said:


> That’s my point. I get what your looking for but that is not cheap or easy. Your wanting to compete with large midbass drivers in a concert or studio environment and recreation that in a car.
> Just trying to help you not be disappointed. But a 6.5 and tweet with a couple of 12s are not going to do what your looking for no matter what brand they are.


Hence why I added the midrange comment with the GB 25 jokingly. Not necessarily AF but a 3 way set up, just the same.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Iamsecond said:


> You don’t need audiofrog drivers to get the sound your looking for. I have changed out my front stage 7 times before giving in and putting a dsp in and I wish I had done it way earlier. Keep what you have and put the dsp in and tune it.
> 
> but it sound like you have already convinced yourself that audio frog is what you need. They are nice drivers but certainly not the only or “best drivers”. There is no such thing. Many drivers will give you what your after.
> 
> actually, tuning will do most of it along with the a great install.


Look at Frogs as the last part in the chain. Important, but its the last piece. You can have a very good sounding system and not use Frogs. There are many other drivers that will get you a good sounding front stage. Most of this is going to be install and equipment before the speaker. A good speaker cant fix a bad install or equipment. I have heard Frogs a few times as we have a local dealer here. They are good not question. On the flip side I heard some of the cars from that shop that moved to the frogs from other brands, can say how much they improved or not. For example they had a truck that previously used ARC black and then moved to the Frogs. The first install i heard sounded damn good so cant speak how much it improved. 

I would first define your budget and then work within that defined budget. For me, I am still looking at raw drivers and used becasue there is a certain price point in my head that I just wont cross. I also miss the spirit of this forum from years back. When I first joined, guys really looked and researched raw drivers or looked for deals to do true DIY installs. Over the last few years I have really seen the shift to purchase really high end/commercially available speakers, which is fine. I would define your budget, get the install and DSP set and then find drivers you like. At the end of the day, must will say it is the tuning that will have the biggest impact


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## crdi_lover (Jul 19, 2018)

Kountz said:


> if i wanted to run 8's in my doors i'd have to completely rebuild the door.


Look for speakers by Audible Physics. 

May be of some help to you and what you are looking for over the Frogs. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

I think that speakers are the single most important piece of equipment in car audio, with DSP, HU, and amps following behind them in importance, though not necessarily in the order I just listed. However, the best speakers in the world still require proper installation to perform their best (i.e. solid baffles, true separation of front vs back wave, aiming, etc.) Additionally, installation alone won't make the best speakers in the world perform their best without proper tuning.

So, I don't think its as simple as a "this brand over that brand" proposition. From my own experience, I've used very cheap raw drivers that I've gotten to perform on a very high level, through proper installation and tuning. However, I've not used anything (in the past) that out-performs the setup that I'm currently running, which happens to be all-Audiofrog. That said, my ability to install and tune have also improved over the years, through research (forums, YouTube & Facebook groups) and lots of practical application. So, it's probable to think I could now get better performance out of some of the drivers I've used before, based on my own improvements in installation & tuning.

Audiofrog are without a doubt, top-notch performing drivers. But they'll still require (just like any other brand/model) proper installation & tuning to achieve their full potential. You may try to get the most out of the equipment you currently own through installation & tuning, then decide if you still need more. Or you can bite the bullet, get the speakers you want and get them installed and tuned properly (by yourself or by others). It's your money, and your car, and you can't take either of them with you...YOLO!


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

anuraagshenoy said:


> Look for speakers by Audible Physics.
> 
> May be of some help to you and what you are looking for over the Frogs.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


what's so special about audio physics? i went on their website and i don't see nothing that really stands out.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> what's so special about audio physics? i went on their website and i don't see nothing that really stands out.


Theyve been used in many high end installs.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Jroo said:


> At the end of the day, most will say it is the tuning that will have the biggest impact


I agree. Speakers are important and the install is very important but a good DSP is more important.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

VegasStereo said:


> Theyve been used in many high end installs.


Its Audible Physics.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> Its Audible Physics.


a couple years ago i bought a pair of audible physics 3 1/2 inch mid woofers from a member here. they were taken out of a bentley custom install. one of them came damaged during shipping. the actual magnet came apart from the voice coil. just listening to that one speaker that worked, it sounded okay but i didn't think it was as good as the hertz mille mid-range that replaced it.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> a couple years ago i bought a pair of audible physics 3 1/2 inch mid woofers from a member here. they were taken out of a bentley custom install. one of them came damaged during shipping. the actual magnet came apart from the voice coil. just listening to that one speaker that worked, it sounded okay but i didn't think it was as good as the hertz mille mid-range that replaced it.


Right. I think thats one of the points being made here...
That speaker selection is entirely subjective. What sounds good to you might not to someone else. 
That being said, there are some people here that really know their stuff, and It looks like the general recommondation is to try and eek out as much performance as possible with your current DSP before buying any new drivers.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Kountz said:


> this is the kind of stuff i like to listen to in a sound system. i want the mids and bass to blend in perfectly where it sounds like im in the recording studio with this drummer. i want to feel my chest plate crack in half(and live)
> 
> at 5:01 marker... drumming kick drum bliss


That's bad ass. I'm going to play that in my vehicle.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

gregerst22 said:


> That's bad ass. I'm going to play that in my vehicle.


what kind of gear you got in your car? the kick drum in this video is really nice. i wish i had a flac file of this recording


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Kountz said:


> if i wanted to run 8's in my doors i'd have to completely rebuild the door.


No, if you ever decide to go with 8's do not put them in the doors. For the sound you want at the volume your looking for, you want a pair of 8's, but they need be installed in the kicks. Trust me, I've installed 8's in a few different cars and it is never tight and clean. You'll always be fighting resonance, chasing vibrations and issues that color the sound, it's just not worth it. Once you mount them in the kicks and vent them to the outside all of those issues disappear and the 8's can really shine. One reason I bought the car I have now is because I could mount 8's in the kicks. I am happy I did, because listening to music in my vehicle is like sitting in front of nice home theater system, and I have never had the door cards off.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

gregerst22 said:


> No, if you ever decide to go with 8's do not put them in the doors. For the sound you want at the volume your looking for, you want a pair of 8's, but they need be installed in the kicks. Trust me, I've installed 8's in a few different cars and it is never tight and clean. You'll always be fighting resonance, chasing vibrations and issues that color the sound, it's just not worth it. Once you mount them in the kicks and vent them to the outside all of those issues disappear and the 8's can really shine. One reason I bought the car I have now is because I could mount 8's in the kicks. I am happy I did, because listening to music in my vehicle is like sitting in front of nice home theater system, and I have never had the door cards off.


i really like how you done your system. i'm not going to lie i'm interested in buying a ford edge LOL. what are you powering those 8-inch midbass has with?


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm running the whole front stage off a singe 900w 6-channel, mmats 150x6 amp and the subs are getting 2000watts from mmats2000.2. Clean and simple with plenty of power. I love these amps.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

gregerst22 said:


> I'm running the whole front stage off a singe 900w 6-channel, mmats 150x6 amp and the subs are getting 2000watts from mmats2000.2. Clean and simple with plenty of power. I love these amps.


i called a shop and i was told that there's no way in hell i could fit eights in the kick panels of my altima


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Time to get an Edge. I have the ZR800's in mine which are not shallow by any means but they fit with room for a foot rest. I used the ZR's because I had them from a previous build and the kick ass. but there are some pretty good shallow 8's now that would take up less room.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

But to your original question about audio frog. They do perform as you would expect and live up to a lot of the hype imo. I've used the GB60, GB25, GB10, GB12 and heard a lot of great things about the GB15. The GB60 is an awesome little 6.5 that puts out bass like a larger driver would. It's probably the best on the market right now. If I were going to install a 2-way it would be the GB60, GB15 combo.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

gregerst22 said:


> But to your original question about audio frog. They do perform as you would expect and live up to a lot of the hype imo. I've used the GB60, GB25, GB10, GB12 and heard a lot of great things about the GB15. The GB60 is an awesome little 6.5 that puts out bass like a larger driver would. It's probably the best on the market right now. If I were going to install a 2-way it would be the GB60, GB15 combo.


what did that video sound like in your car? i'm heavily leaning toward the gb60 and gb15 in my car but i want to install this DSP and see if i can live with these pioneer components. My other option is a stevens audio sa 6 active components


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I’ve got the GB15/GB60/GB12 two way in one car and GB10/GB25/JLC5/Sundown SD3-10 three way in another. I like what metanium said in post #31. The GB60 is just an awesome midbass driver. Easily the best 6.5” I have ever heard or had and I’ve had a decent amount over the years. I heard Audio Development once and those were very good too. In my opinion the GB series speakers are just incredible if properly installed and tuned and capable of getting very loud without distortion creeping in. If you can afford them then you won’t be disappointed provided you know how to install and tune.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

JCsAudio said:


> I’ve got the GB15/GB60/GB12 two way in one car and GB10/GB25/JLC5/Sundown SD3-10 three way in another. I like what metanium said in post #31. The GB60 is just an awesome midbass driver. Easily the best 6.5” I have ever heard or had and I’ve had a decent amount over the years. I heard Audio Development once and those were very good too. In my opinion the GB series speakers are just incredible if properly installed and tuned and capable of getting very loud without distortion creeping in. If you can afford them then you won’t be disappointed provided you know how to install and tune.


with your gb60 and gb15 car i would like for you to listen to this song at loud volume and tell me if it shines


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

This thread is making me want to go and buy a set now. ?


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> This thread is making me want to go and buy a set now. ?


i spoke to a very well-known installer here in this group and he thinks audiofrog is crap made it very clear that morel is much better and that audiofrog is made in China. he obviously really likes morel.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

That flies in the face of what most people are saying about AF. I would question his motives. Morel is pretty well known for having really good tweeters. I owned a pair and enjoyed them. You don't hear too much praise for their midrange and midbass. I've owned those too.


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

gregerst22 said:


> That flies in the face of what most people are saying about AF. I would question his motives. Morel is pretty well known for having really good tweeters. I owned a pair and enjoyed them. You don't hear too much praise for their midrange and midbass. I've owned those too.


i've had too many people recommend audiofrog to me obviously they must make one hell of a speaker. i'm just concerned about that stereo integrity rm15 in a sealed enclosure at 2.5 cubic foot completely drowning out my front stage.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

The AF shouldn't have any problems getting loud. Give them 100w - 150w each.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> i spoke to a very well-known installer here in this group and he thinks audiofrog is crap made it very clear that morel is much better and that audiofrog is made in China. he obviously really likes morel.


Yea I dont understand that at all.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Kountz said:


> what did that video sound like in your car? i'm heavily leaning toward the gb60 and gb15 in my car but i want to install this DSP and see if i can live with these pioneer components. My other option is a stevens audio sa 6 active components


I suspect that it will sound pretty darn awesome! I'm going to give it a listen on my way to work tomorrow. I'm trying to finish up a paper for school.which begs the question as to why I'm on DIYMA right now. J


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

VegasStereo said:


> Yea I dont understand that at all.


i'm not going to call him out but he is a very well known installer that has his own shop that is highly respected here. he does not like audiofrog at all. he is 100% Morel. the only morels i've ever listened to was some piccolo tweeters and they sounded awesome. i don't know about a full component set.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> i'm not going to call him out but he is a very well known installer that has his own shop that is highly respected here. he does not like audiofrog at all. he is 100% Morel. the only morels i've ever listened to was some piccolo tweeters and they sounded awesome. i don't know about a full component set.


You have a PM


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

gregerst22 said:


> That flies in the face of what most people are saying about AF. I would question his motives. Morel is pretty well known for having really good tweeters. I owned a pair and enjoyed them. You don't hear too much praise for their midrange and midbass. I've owned those too.


Thats what gain is for. ?


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

I could understand why whoever said it did, if your looking for the ultimate set of speakers and come here 99% will say audiofrog, it’s so funny that this morning I was listening to a morel setup in a car that we’re about to redo and was saying to myself damn these are so tonally correct. Frogs are good, actually they’re very good at their price point but there’s a lot of better speakers out there, even in their price range. Anybody ever listened to a set of Blam multix or scanspeak 12mu? These in my opinion are superior to the GB’s, I hate to be the first to sprinkle a little salt on the frogs but there’s a lot of better speakers out there.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Kountz said:


> i've had too many people recommend audiofrog to me obviously they must make one hell of a speaker. i'm just concerned about that stereo integrity rm15 in a sealed enclosure at 2.5 cubic foot completely drowning out my front stage.


Thats what the gain is for. ?


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

gijoe said:


> A DSP can take mediocre speakers a LONG way. You might be really surprised by what you can do with a DSP and a microphone. Hell, I’d love to throw together a real “budget challenge” project just to prove this point. Even with the super basic DSP in my Kenwood head unit, I feel pretty confident that I can make a pretty decent 2-way front with really inexpensive speakers.


Paradyme Audio did just this in the Lexus RX I owned. The stock Pioneer 3 way with DSP was amazing. Went a long way to making it sound awesome. Enjoyed every minute I owned that vehicle


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

Anyway I'm leaning towards AF myself and will install it next week.

Lol, I remember a few years ago it was Sinfoni was all the rage on this forum. Just a tad bit out of my league. I have the green light to get anything I want but I have a Ford F-250 with 84k miles. Let's get real.  Saving up for a new transmission soon.


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## Fujitsu (Jul 4, 2015)

I have an F-150 that is fully GB frogged. The paint color is even green. We all know the marginal return on each additional dollar spent became insignificant thousands of dollars ago. I shamelessly have spent money to scratch itches, knowing there is no pragmatic return on the investment. Value is relative, blah blah blah... but it AF is very good equipment.

FWIW, a pair of GS62s and a GB10D4 is beautiful simplicity and effortless midbass for those that haven't tried.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Kountz said:


> all i hear about in the car audio industry is audiofrog. are they really that damn good? i swore when i bought this 2018 nissan altima that i was not going to put a ridiculously expensive system in this car. here we are climbing down that rabbit hole getting ready to do that dumb crap again. if i am going to spend the money... is audiofrog going to really make me happy? i listen to my music somewhat loud and it will be paired up with a stereo integrity rm15 sealed. i listen to mostly metal and "fun music". with this system i want to hear snappy double kick drum coming from the front.
> 
> i plan on doing audiofrog gb60 and gb15 in a 2-way powered by a Zapco st.6.sq. channels 1 and 2 will be for the GB 15, channels 3 through 6 bridged will be for the gb60.
> 
> ...


For my install coming up, it was between Audio Frog and ARC Audio. AF has a great reputation and reviews but I went with ARC Audio RS series. And an ARC 10 subwoofer in the passenger footwell.... ARC was less $ but in my limited knowledge delivers the best bang for the buck between the 2 companies. Good luck!


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

*ScanSpeak Revelator 18W vs Audiofrog G60? 

back in the day those scanspeak revelators were super popular. i never got a chance to listen to a pair. are they still relevant?*


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Kountz said:


> play this video in your car and turn this **** up. i want my **** to be pristine and badass


I was at that Bar-Mitzvah.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> I was at that Bar-Mitzvah.


You were?


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

VegasStereo said:


> You were?


No. I was making a joke.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Kountz said:


> play this video in your car and turn this **** up. i want my **** to be pristine and badass


If there is ever a zombie dance party, I imagine that it would look almost exactly like that.... ;-) That's all that I can think of when I watch that - dancing zombies....


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> No. I was making a joke.


Lol. Yea I figured. Had to ask anyway though because you never know.
I tell people that I shared a glass of wine with the late great Neil Peart back in 1991 and nobody believes me. Lol
You never know.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

VegasStereo said:


> Lol. Yea I figured. Had to ask anyway though because you never know.
> I tell people that I shared a glass of wine with the late great Neil Peart back in 1991 and nobody believes me. Lol
> You never know.


I believe it. Those guys LOVED wine.


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## Savackz (Feb 25, 2020)

Convince me why to get the GS690s/GS10s over the Hybrid U69s/U1 combo.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Savackz said:


> Convince me why to get the GS690s/GS10s over the Hybrid U69s/U1 combo.


cuz that particular comparison is not even close. I am not a AF is the only way by any means, but in this comparison...go AF.


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## Savackz (Feb 25, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> cuz that particular comparison is not even close. I am not a AF is the only way by any means, but in this comparison...go AF.


But why? I have heard that but no one has given me any proof.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> I believe it. Those guys LOVED wine.


Lol. Yup that they did.
He had just come off of the stage after doing his infamous YYZ drum solo and I got a chance to meet him. This was at The Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert that Buddy Rich's daughter Kathy Rich used to organize every year.
Neil was last up on the bill to perform that evening, and I got to meet him when he came offstage. I later got to talk to him in depth and was eventually offered a glass of red wine. We talked for an hour at minimum about music, drums etc... then parted ways. Ill never forget that night, I was all of 17 years old, with a long, long life out ahead of me. My god.
Anyway, sorry for the interruption.
J


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

Went to go listen to some today and Paradyme audio was fresh out of them. Nada, zilch. Sigh. 
BUT I did listen to Audison AVK6 two way components. I really liked those. 
So much for AF.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

VegasStereo said:


> Lol. Yup that they did.
> He had just come off of the stage after doing his infamous YYZ drum solo and I got a chance to meet him. This was at The Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert that Buddy Rich's daughter Kathy Rich used to organize every year.
> Neil was last up on the bill to perform that evening, and I got to meet him when he came offstage. I later got to talk to him in depth and was eventually offered a glass of red wine. We talked for an hour at minimum about music, drums etc... then parted ways. Ill never forget that night, I was all of 17 years old, with a long, long life out ahead of me. My god.
> Anyway, sorry for the interruption.
> J


That is a fantastic story. How appropriate for him to perform at a Buddy Rich event.

Thanks for sharing!

A great album of mine:


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Yea anytime Slick55.
Great nod to Max Roach too.
You have great taste man. ?
Again to the OP, pardon the intrusion.


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## Savackz (Feb 25, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> cuz that particular comparison is not even close. I am not a AF is the only way by any means, but in this comparison...go AF.


Ill say more so, which one would provide me more midbass? That’s what I’m after. On 100w a speaker or so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Savackz said:


> Ill say more so, which one would provide me more midbass? That’s what I’m after. On 100w a speaker or so.


AF GB60 is known to have some of the most midbass of any 6.5 on the market. I’m not saying the absolute most but I’m not sure what would have more.

Or are you asking for the most midbass in a 6.5” speaker that doesn’t cost over $300? $500?


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Im actually dying to hear the GB 60s.


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## Savackz (Feb 25, 2020)

dgage said:


> AF GB60 is known to have some of the most midbass of any 6.5 on the market. I’m not saying the absolute most but I’m not sure what would have more.
> 
> Or are you asking for the most midbass in a 6.5” speaker that doesn’t cost over $300? $500?


I’m looking at the GS series. Just need a 6x9 and a tweeter combo. I haven’t ever heard any high end-ish setups, let alone 6x9s as a whole. Comparing the Unity from Hybrid and the GS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

miniSQ said:


> cuz that particular comparison is not even close. I am not a AF is the only way by any means, but in this comparison...go AF.


a guy has won finals in his category with just the u69 and u2 as a wideband, and no subwoofer...

now i know that is a wideband. but why do you think the AF is that much better?


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## Rainstar (May 22, 2017)

Audio frog is perdy gud. Would consider it a top 15 of speaker brands can't go wrong.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Kountz said:


> *ScanSpeak Revelator 18W vs Audiofrog G60?
> 
> back in the day those scanspeak revelators were super popular. i never got a chance to listen to a pair. are they still relevant?*


I have not used those but have owned and tried the ScanSpeak Illuminator 18WU which are better by many accounts. They are really, really good midbass / midrange with lots of bass, but are terribly difficult to install for most people due to their depth. I took those out and replaced with the GB60 and I was seriously impressed by them. The GB60 can nearly keep up with the illuminators and are much more install friendly and not to mention, designed for the harshness of the car environment. Also somebody mentioned the ScanSpeak 12MU, I have tried those as well. They are an awesome sounding midrange but really need to be installed in a sealed enclosure to really shine. Again, not designed for the car environment. Seriously, the GB line is really good and install friendly. At the higher end of AF, ScanSpeak, DynAudio, Morel, etc etc it is really less about the speakers than it is about install and tuning.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Kountz said:


> play this video in your car and turn this **** up. i want my **** to be pristine and badass


This is what happens when people try to dance to death metal.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

ckirocz28 said:


> This is what happens when people try to dance to death metal.


Not to be funny here, but the movements (body mechanics) remind me of "The Walking Dead" on AMC.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

ckirocz28 said:


> This is what happens when people try to dance to death metal.


Cool tutorial on groove. ?


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

The funny part is that I can't quit watching it.  I especially can't keep my eyes off the girl in the red sweater....


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Savackz said:


> Ill say more so, which one would provide me more midbass? That’s what I’m after. On 100w a speaker or so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Over at CarAudioJunkies I modeled these and others for Hillbilly just recently with Bassbox pro and posted the graphs. The AFGs690 models better for midbass over the shallow unity.


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

Did the OP get convinced yet to go with AF's haha? It's funny how we can model everything before goes into our vehicles but it still doesn't always determine the best in car outcomes. Acoustical variables are inherent in every vehicle so nothing seems to beat a good ole fashion install and a listen. I've learned over the last 25+ years that the only rule is there are no rules and no two installs are the same.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Bchester6 said:


> Did the OP get convinced yet to go with AF's haha? It's funny how we can model everything before goes into our vehicles but it still doesn't always determine the best in car outcomes. Acoustical variables are inherent in every vehicle so nothing seems to beat a good ole fashion install and a listen. I've learned over the last 25+ years that the only rule is there are no rules and no two installs are the same.


Agreed, a lot of people forget that and tuning with the DSP is paramount to get right. Fail anywhere along the whole process and like a weak link in a chain it will have a less than desirable outcome. Having low distortion high qaulity and high output drivers does make getting the best sound easiest to attain. The frogs are proven high qaulity high output and low distortion with installation accessories that make that installation easier. Yeah there are arguably better drivers out there and certainly ones that cost even more so. That will always be a factor no matter the brand.
I’m certainly very happy with my GB series and want nothing more than they give me now for the money they cost. I think at this point in my installation, putting more time and money into tuning and possibly driver installation would net me more than changing out $2400 worth of drivers.


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

Once you start getting in the high echelon of drivers that we're discussing they are all elite and it's just a matter of picking one that fits your application and finding their sweet spot. Your in car response determines where to go from there.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Modeling isn't useless as that seems to be suggested. There's certain aspects that are revealed with modeling that helps determine which route to go with. Yet, the biggest issue with modeling is that most aren't familiar with their vehicle's acoustics and that must be taken into account in the data. It's pretty much a shortcut to just playing lotto... swapping drivers until you finally win. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## fmedrano1977 (Aug 18, 2017)

gijoe said:


> That will be mostly subwoofer and tuning.


How does one go about tuning a subwoofer to accomplish just that?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

The transition from subwoofer to midbass, and from midbass to midrange/tweeter all need to be smooth, especially around the crossover point. 

It's ok to have the sub several decibels louder than the midbass (not just ok, ideal) but when you bump up the bass you need to make sure that where the sub crosses over with the midwoofer that you have a smooth transition. The same goes for the midbass to midrange/tweeter. The midrange/tweeter is still very active in playing bass (especially from real instruments) so that transition needs to be smooth as well. 

Time alignment will get you started. All of the speakers in the system need to be set to arrive at the listener at the same time. Crossovers need to be smooth so that the frequency response around the crossover is pretty flat. You can boost or lower frequencies but do it carefully so that you don't have sudden changes in SPL around your crossover points. EQ is necessary as well. 

I'm not going into a full tuning tutorial here, there are plenty of those already, but the key is smooth transitions.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

@Kountz
I'm not sure if you've come to a final decision on this, but I'm going to echo the responses of many others. Particularly @Bayboy.

Your current install is admittedly compromised and hasn't been tuned. To write off your Pioneer Zs at this point would be a waste. And any future comparison between the Zs in your current installation and the Audiofrog GBs with a better installation and tuning would be completely invalid. I'm not saying that the Zs are on par with the GBs, simply that they aren't on a level playing field to begin with.

Ultimately, you are going to need to install your DSP and tune. Ultimately you are going to need to optimize your installation. Do those things now, with the gear you currently have. You know what the Zs sound like when they aren't optimized. Time to find out how much better they can be when you give them a fair shake. If after you have done everything you can to address your installation and tuning you still aren't satisfied with the Pioneers, by all means, order the Audiofrogs. Or whatever other brand you might want to try.

And don't listen to anyone telling you that to get the impact you want you need to have a three way and 8" midbasses. That is absolute nonsense. My car has a pretty simple install of 1" tweeters (sails), 5" mids (dash corners), and two 10s (under front seats) and impact/output is not a problem. In fact, it is better now than when I ran 6s in my doors, 3s on my dash and tweeters in the sails. Proper driver selection, installation and tuning are the big factors for having an SQ system that can also "rip your face off." Two way, three way, 12 way... doesn't really matter.


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## Bottombunk (Dec 7, 2016)

I had my midbass part of a 3 way using audio frog. It was really good. However the mid and upper freq were hertz. Which also was as well. Helix dsp and image placement of rhe upper range played a big part though along with proper sound deadening to remove some resonant freq issues. Like a few said. There are plenty of great speakers out there and dsp does play a good part as well. Proper tuning is a must.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

The comment about three was plus 8 may have been a response to me because I suggested 8s. That is a great observation and true. I may have written my comment and it was not written clearly. I never meant to suggest a three way plus 8. But a three way that included an 8 instead of a 6.5. Or even a 6x9 which is very close to an 8 in output and cone area. 
but I would think a 10/12 midbass would be great. I have not had the opportunity to use a 8/10/12 midbass but it might happen one day.

also agree on the dsp and tune before replace speakers. I went through 5-6 different front stage sets and then decided to just get a dsp. Turns out myvehicle hates tweets in the stock locations without a dsp. Could have saved a lot of money by just getting a dsp to begin with. I basically gave away some great speaker sets.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Iamsecond said:


> I basically gave away some great speaker sets.


Hey, don’t tell everyone that! That is how I got most of my equipment for a fraction of the cost of new, lol.


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