# What am I looking for? Sq and Practicality.



## JohnRichard (Jan 9, 2014)

Greetings, 

I have been reading for some time now this forum and decided it was time to post. This being my first post I hope I can follow forum conventions and rules, I'll also try to stay on topic the best I can: 

I have posted this in the Old School category as I simply prefer the old school equipment. Let me give you a bit of back story and then talk a bit about what I am looking for. 

I started my car audio obsession with my '91 SW20 (MR2). I used some Pioneer deck I can't even remember, Infinity Kappa's, PPI (I think) amp and an Infinity 10" sub. I was an Infinity fan, that was 20 years ago. In that small space, the 10" sub was TOO MUCH! 

I decided that it might be better to try out an 8" sub in a small sealed enclosure behind the seats. This is a two seater with a cockpit air volume of what those kats that run six 15"s use in their Esclades.... 

So that worked ok. 
I never did get my MR-S setup the way I wanted it, and come to learn I rather hate convertibles. Moved to VW for a while, then to BMW, and now I'm back at Toyota. 

I have a Supra (Mk3). 

I am a professional musician, classically trained. I lissen to the following:
89% "Classical" as in specific albums of recordings, produced at different levels and NEVER any of the "Best of classical $3.99 special from the walmart" Think Telarc, Deutsche Grammaphone, and DECCA

12% can be filled with Jazz: Porter, Goodman, Davis, Coltrane, Spyro Gyra, Hancock, et al. 

5% Electronica, Jpop, and other: re Daft Punk (Mostly just Discovery and a little of the new Tron album), Janelle Monae, X Japan, Michael Jackson, Beach Boys, Van Halen, HANSON! (WHO ARE STILL TOTALLY LEGIT!). 

So I've been trying to figure out what to build. And thus I discovered your site. I'm super glad I did. 


The problem:
Mk3 supra has 4" driver in the door, (Link to picture of speakerbox...) 
Speaker Install 08

The hatch area speakers are 4.25", the backseat shoulder speakers are 3.5".

Now, it is entirely possible that I can get two doors from a 91 supra that has 6.5" in the front, but that seems a bit overkill to me personally. And, as I have no plans for this car to be an audio competition car, that's likely a non-starter.

I also realize that a 4" surface isn't physically going to be able to provide anything much past 250Hz? (I'm just guessing). But perhaps it will go down in the 20Hz range, just not audible. 

There is also a factory sub that's about 4" in some Supras... 

So with all this wisdom floating around, what do you suggest for a quality system? My requirements? CD's are fine, I generally hate mp3's, I'll accept FLAC but no headunit supports that. I would prefer a better sounding older unit over a new one with bells and whistles. There is a lovely CDX-c90 on the ebay for $250 right now. 

I do not want to add a giant box with 20" sub in the back. I don't need flashy videos playing. I do not want to spend $1000 on a head unit; I spent more than that on my home system. Since I usually lissen to music on long GT drives to help eat away the miles, pleasantness is more important to me than the best equipment money can buy. I am happy with a 4-6 channel amp. I don't care to have time aligned sound stages, DSP, multiple magic boxes filled with spirit-children that do wonderful things to your hertz.... I don't want to go there with this vehicle. 

A decent head unit, single outboard amp (or multiple, provided they are small). Why does everything have to be gigantic? Single-Din, CD, no surround sound cause Stereo is wonderful. 

I'm happy with 24-bit mahogany cased burr-brown electrolytic diamond encrusted whatever. But since I'm not building an audio only car, nor a show car, and don't want to pay those diamond encrusted prices, I think something in the $500 category should do nicely. 

On the other hand, perhaps I should just purchase a new unit. But I HATE blue LED's, and they all look like they were designed by a 12 year old. I've been leaning towards Nakamichi in my thoughts, but I'm not opposed to other makes. Alpine is fine, Clarion is fine, Pioneer is fine. 

Some final thoughts, tho I'm sure some of you readers might not make it this far: The only recordings I own that I know go down into the 20Hz range are the Fantasia 2000 recording of Chicago playing Stravinsky's Firebird, and Messiaen Transports di Joie (Pipe Organ). 

Oh, please don't take any of the above descriptors to be condescending for that is the last thing I want. If I knew everything I wouldn't be asking. I fully realize and understand that 24-bit burr-brown DAC's are excellent, and that if I want the best sound quality from any equipment I am going to have to pay for it. Also, I am aware of the likes of Denon, McIntosh, and other brand names that make legendary equipment. I don't think that's what I'm looking for. Sure, if I find a craigslist Alpine-7990 for $45 I'll buy it. Wouldn't you? 

I hope we might start a good discussion on this topic. 

TL;DR Thoughts on simple sq setups:
Single-din head unit
single or dual amp
4 - 6 drivers + very small optional sub
Stereo
Focus on "classical" music
Reference recording: Tchaikovsky Telarc CD 80137 Nutcracker
Reference recording: Miles Davis - Kind of Blue - CK 64935 CD re-release Columbia LP


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## car8961 (May 7, 2013)

Hey, Pioneer 80prs($250ish). 5 channel amp so you can go active easily with 80prs, or a 4 channel if you can't, some pre packaged components or raw drivers via Parts express, madisound, meniscus audio. You have to use the research tools under forums here. And a 12" sub 1 cu. ft. box. Research, get back to me or someone else. You are a musician, metal tweets for accuracy and or aluminum 3" fountek drivers on floor at kick panels or dash. Sound may be a bit fatiguing at times (recording dependent) but you will also have access to vast amounts of music info. lost with other speaker materials. enjoy


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## JohnRichard (Jan 9, 2014)

I like the Pioneer 80PRS. 
12" Sub in a 1 cubic foot box is too big for my taste. I realize it's going to sound great, but It's not something I care to haul around.


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## car8961 (May 7, 2013)

I had a .5 cu ft box and a .75 and the one cu ft makes no difference at all on trunk real estate. I was surprised and the 12" is nice. If you have a tiny car a 1.5 cu ft might be inconvenient.


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## mrnix (Mar 2, 2009)

I had the Sony CDX-C90 with the optical output to the XDP-210EQ for a time, and it did wonders for CDs. I recommend it, or the XDP-4000 (?) EQ if you can get your hands on one.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm running an 80prs and really like it. In another vehicle I have an alpine pdx-v9 and am happy with it too. An alpine type R 8 in a sealed enclosure would fit the bill perfectly for you. 

Now about the speakers, are you limited to a 4" driver in the door or can you make a baffle that'll allow you to go bigger? What about separate tweets? If you can do separates what are your location options for the tweets?


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## 82cj8 (Jan 21, 2011)

I believe the ground zero hydrogen series 8" sub would be just right for you.You can 
pm the rep on that thread for pricing.(A comparison of a few 8"s in the same .35 enlcosure)the thread
Does soundstage matter to you?If you could fit a 5 1/4" hybrid audio mirus coaxial in the door with that sub and a decent amp I believe it would sound very nice for your money.


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## JohnRichard (Jan 9, 2014)

Golden Ear said:


> I'm running an 80prs and really like it. In another vehicle I have an alpine pdx-v9 and am happy with it too. An alpine type R 8 in a sealed enclosure would fit the bill perfectly for you.
> 
> Now about the speakers, are you limited to a 4" driver in the door or can you make a baffle that'll allow you to go bigger? What about separate tweets? If you can do separates what are your location options for the tweets?





82cj8 said:


> I believe the ground zero hydrogen series 8" sub would be just right for you.You can
> pm the rep on that thread for pricing.(A comparison of a few 8"s in the same .35 enlcosure)the thread
> Does soundstage matter to you?If you could fit a 5 1/4" hybrid audio mirus coaxial in the door with that sub and a decent amp I believe it would sound very nice for your money.



I have sourced 92 year doors so can now fit larger drivers. (5.25 at least perhaps 6.5, can't recall at the moment). 

I'll look in to the "Ground Zero Hydrogen 8"" Sub. Thanks for the info. 

I am almost set on the 80prs as it has loads of features I'll actually use, like digital file playback. 
Now I know, I hate digital files too, but I hate getting all my CD's stolen out of my car even more. Sure that might have only happened once 15 years ago, but still, ever since I keep my good original copies at the house, and burned copies in the car. However, I also have having 50 jewel cases sliding around everywhere. Since I don't have that much music, a 4GB flash card is plenty for my needs. If I purchase a CD while out and about, I'll still have the means to play it.


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## 82cj8 (Jan 21, 2011)

What is your budget for all of it.Was $500 for just the head unit or total for all of it?


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## JohnRichard (Jan 9, 2014)

82cj8 said:


> What is your budget for all of it.Was $500 for just the head unit or total for all of it?


In my original post, $500 was mentioned for the head unit. Even that for what I need is a bit steep, in my opinion.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

You can find a used 80prs on here for around $200 so you have more money for speakers


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## [email protected]'go (Aug 22, 2013)

perhaps, I'll could help you with my channel and my collection?

popothym - YouTube


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## ripready (Nov 30, 2013)

Definitely stay away from the CDX C90 fantastic sounding deck but im on my third one as both have mysteriously died. One blown face place and one on its way to the grave.


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

So do you like a more clinical sound our warm natural sound?


So the pioneers are nice the 80prs, and the 880 in that price range. I would also consider the Clarion CZ702, DRX9255. Also the Eclipse decks were also very nice.

Now you have options.
Answer that and amps and speakers I can then recommend.


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## car8961 (May 7, 2013)

I like the cold , dry , clinical , almost some how lifeless sound coming from a system. Whoa. Just kidding. You may want to consider speakers, amp, processing, speaker placement, interior reflections etc., with possible problem from HU sound signature.


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

Lol some musicians I have dealt with mainly classically trained professional and classical music as 80% of there listening like to heardetail that most don't realize is there. There for some like to lean to a more clinical sound where the details stand out more. It is kind of like if the average football fan watches a game vs a player or coach watching to prepare for there next game. They have different needs and want there viewing to be different in some ways. 

Here's my recommendation.
Old school amps great balance and sound out of gate. They seam to be more linear right out of the gate.

Smooth but detailed
Lanzar Opti (original blue/gray and black/gold) square tanks
Linear power
Soundstream
Adcom
PPI art , m, am, arguably PC
PPI sedona
Zed esx, hifonics series vi,vii,viii, autotek bts and original mm

More clinical sound in my opinion
Most new amps
PG ms, m not as much as new stuff
Alpine 35xx, v12 not as much as new.
Earthquake PA slightly on this side.
Us amps
Zapco


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

Now speakers 
I would say you would be happy with Morel components entry price level maximos, temps are more but much improved. The virus are probrobly the best value in the line up and a primo 8 or 10. The ultimo sc series will give you great low endin a small enclosure. But there is a price jump.

I would also recommend the new IDQ 8 or 10 I think you'd be more than happy with any of those choices. 

Good luck my friend. Happy listening


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