# (3)Rare Polished Orion 425



## Old Skewl (May 30, 2011)

Not mine! Sweet though! Nice PG amp too!

sancho2424 | eBay


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

these are mine ...havent had much interest in them..its weird ive seen regular 425's go for $350 but i cant even get $400 for these.


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## Vanlan (Jul 20, 2011)

hmm, any interest in trading either an orion or the soundstream for a couple w10gti mkii's?


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

Nice subs but really have no use for them..Im open to trades but i have an overabundance of subs..Doesnt even have to be car audio stuff ..I could use a new cell phone..Or other amps mainly old school phoenix gold.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

sancho20 said:


> these are mine ...havent had much interest in them..its weird ive seen regular 425's go for $350 but i cant even get $400 for these.


if you look close at the amps.. it counters what you say in your auction.. Those were not special made for Orion vehicles.. Some one has taken very nice 425's and stripped them.. they polished the screening right off the sides.. The reason your not getting hits is that most any knowledgable collector of Orion amps knows this, and does not want a amp that has been done this way.. The 425hcca is one of the most desirable amps out there that orion made.. And not being red is actually a degrade in price, believe it or not.. and its a little late to anodize them now (or maybe not).. If i were you, (if you wanted to invest the time), i would take them to a reputable screen printer and have the settings screened back on them.. I had this done to a old GS that had been just work out over time, had it stripped and replated, then had a company silkscreen the layouts back on.. wouldnt cost you too much just to design and do your ends, and you would probably fetch a decent penny for them if enough pictures showing the amp were present, other than that, the amps look to be in great shape, GLWS


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

well i had the serial numbers checked by someone that worked for orion and he confirmed they were made this way and werent production amps and were not sold to the public..I understand people being skeptical since there is no printing on the end but since they were not released to the public that there was no reason to put it on there.Believe me if you saw the amps in person you would be able to tell that they were not stripped down.Im trying to get some documentation for these amps since people think that just because they have never seen these then orion didnt make them like this..I was the same way before i bought them ..But im probally just gonna hold onto them until i get something that proves they were not stripped down..heres the thread 
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifiers/526350-orion-hcca-425-amp-question.html


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

well if anyone told you they could tell on a serial #, they lied to you... nothing was retained prior to i believe 1999 or 2000. The only possibility that they could have come that way was they got a concept heat sink, as the concepts were the only ones that were ever un anodized.. but then again, the heat sink at least would have been changed, as any plating or polishing that orion did, the screening was always present, the gs, nt's, anything... If you look at the heat sinks (cant tell from pic) or post one pic really close, if the heat sink has small lines in it like grain, then its a actual raw aluminum heatsink, if the sides are shiny and smooth, then it has been polished and not factory.. So could be the possibility that a competitor (like i was), got hold of factory unfinished heat sinks.. which is not saying couldnt or wasnt done, but i can guarantee the bottom plate of amp was not factory or the screening would still be there.. And my actual point to this whole response was just the fact that the factory anodized ones happen to bring more money, why, hell i couldnt tell you, most people would pay more on the note that they are more familiar with the red than anything, just like the NT, not a ton made, but people know they are out there.. and also from the other link, yeah the pink floyd was a funny one, not many made, as they were a flop for orion, a mint one worth more now, then back then, lol.. its a shame on your amps, as they are in nice shape.. If you do keep them, you should do as i mentioned earlier with the screening, then would really look much better, and if you want to go a step further, have the bottom and ends brushed.. , that would really be the shiznit then.. anyway, Again, GLWS... 

OH, and you mentioned in your other thread that the Concept 97.1 and your hcca 425 are the same amp, NO they are not!.. The 425 is 4 ch. high current, basically 2 of the 225's, the 97.1 is basically a HC225 on one side and a 250R on the other...

GLWS


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

i looked at the one pics you posted.. looks grained, so yes those are factory raw heatsinks.. and actually those were still if i remember right machined in Arizona, they would actually be the concept heatsinks, as they were both the same. and those would be just prior to the release, so those would have been preproduction runs, 1996.. and would have come with 2 xover modules and 4 bypass boards.. I have kept most of my Orion stuff from early 90's, i need to dig, we used to get sponser sheets showing what we could and could not have and all upcoming releases. I need to see what was showing in 96-97, i was going out when concepts were releasing as my rep was moving from the line at the time and were not going to have a orion vehicle. If i have anything i will post it up for you..


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

i did think the 425 and 97.1 were the same as the guts are pretty much identical on them..but there are fins on them but thats what i was saying before is that if you saw the amps you would be able to tell they werent polished by someone.And if someone got ahold of a raw heatsink why would they put serial numbers on them and were would they get them from? Those are the links to the guts of each..I dont see any differences.Im not trying to argue with i was just looking at the pics and though they looked the same thats why i said that in the ca.com thread.

AmpGuts.com

AmpGuts.com


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

oh one more question for you ..what do 97.3's bring nowadays..One of my buddies has a couple hes looking to get rid of.. thanks


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

sancho20 said:


> i did think the 425 and 97.1 were the same as the guts are pretty much identical on them..but there are fins on them but thats what i was saying before is that if you saw the amps you would be able to tell they werent polished by someone.And if someone got ahold of a raw heatsink why would they put serial numbers on them and were would they get them from? Those are the links to the guts of each..I dont see any differences.Im not trying to argue with i was just looking at the pics and though they looked the same thats why i said that in the ca.com thread.
> 
> AmpGuts.com
> 
> AmpGuts.com


no they are different, same heatsink, but different. The 425 is stable to .5 ohms on all 4 channels.. 

The 97.1 is stable to .5 ohms on ch 1/2, but ch. 3/4 is only stable to 1 ohm.. Hence the difference...

As far as the 97.3, depends on alot of things, just like these amps.. demand, shape, etc.. they are only worth what someone wants to pay.. 

Ive seen $300-$800, i sold a new in the box one a few years ago for $1000, only because it was still factory sealed completely, and was never even opened till the day i sold it.. but i would venture to guess from what ive seen the past yr., about the $600 range, now keep in mine, you may never get a hit on it, or you may get someone who has to have it, and may be willing to pay more.. you have to just test the market is all i can say.. I will say, if he plans on selling his or whatever, be SURE it works.. too many were destoryed because too many people believed the amp would do what it said and low impedence, a white lie took serious, lol..


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

so what do you honestly think about these then?Ive had alot of people doubt that they came from the factory like this and its obvious they did.And If someone got ahold of the raw heatsinks why would they put serial numbers on them.Im just trying to figure all this out.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

sancho20 said:


> so what do you honestly think about these then?Ive had alot of people doubt that they came from the factory like this and its obvious they did.And If someone got ahold of the raw heatsinks why would they put serial numbers on them.Im just trying to figure all this out.


maybe they got prior to being anodized.. the only thing that makes no sense at all is why they would polish the ends on them.. that means they have been opened up and bottoms removed... but still makes no sense as that pretty much ruins them... I mean from a legitimate standpoint... real collectors are gonna be gun shy with them.. its still a 425 that can produce good power at low ohm loads, someone will come along and want one i suppose.. you would have a better chance of selling them here, but you need to include all the boards that come with them, and post LOTS of pictures.. People here are very leary, and want honesty and integrity above all, if a sale goes bad on here, you will be severely punished on the boards.. you should also verify the working condition of them.. There are some good collectors who may be interested for a fair price, you will just have to see.. If anything post better pics. and descriptions on ebay, and get off that buy it now price, start your auction at $50 (you can put a reserve) and let people bid on it, thats half the fun to most of them.. anyway again GLWS..


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

If someone stripped them after leaving the factory they did a great job and even put the warranty sticker back on.......


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Maybe the were custom built for an Orion employee? Back in those days people that worked in the field actually enjoyed the hobby as well.

That or they could have been custom made for a Team Xtreme member. 

I personally think they are gorgeous.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Sancho, i have to run out on a job, and will edit this quick response when i get back, but after spending alot of time on phone with my old rep (N. texas Orion rep up till late 90's), they are Orion amps that were not anodized and were indeed a option.. Will explain how was explained to me when i return.. 

take Care


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

glad its finally cleared up ..i always knew that they were not stripped and were factory ,i just wasnt sure why they made them or for what..


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Ok Sancho20, Here's the Skinny on the amps, as was told to me....

OK, the amps were not really considered a special order.. Back in the 90's, the factory REP's for Orion were all actually REPS/Stocking Distributors... That means they Repped the line, as well as Distributed the line for Orion.. There were very few FACTORY DIRECT accounts, like me I did enough volume to be factory direct, but didnt matter as all orders went through the Rep Firm/Distributor anyway... It was their responsibility to track serial #'s, submit them, make sure territories were covered without overlap etc... All this is pretty familiar old news that most dealers knew anyway..

So on the 425's like you got... On the Distributor order sheets you could order them standard in RED or SILVER (aluminum) or BLACK (I never even knew that)... funny thing, Anodized RED was the base model you could say, Silver was about 10% less in cost, and Black was about 20% cost increase (all based on dealer of the RED), only difference, RED and Silver was a stocking color from Orion, Black was a 2-3 wk. delay ( i guess from having to send out for anodizing, not sure)... I have also never seen a black one, but i know there are a few of the 225's that were factory black out there... And the RETAIL remained the same across the board...

Anyway from memory, the rep said they did stock the Silver ones, and from his memory again, they were a HARD sell, as they only sold a few, but yet the RED ones were constantly going out the door, they even returned stock on the Silvers to get the RED's, and they never ordered a black that he can remember... 

Ok, the interesting part, as this gets better... Of course everyone knew the outragous bass wars of the 90's (some of this i already am familiar with), basically the cheater amps of the days.. Factory states one thing on a amp, and yet the amp would do tons more.. Hence the FAMOUS ORION HCCA 225... I mean the amp was rated at 25x2, but did well over 400 rms... sure you could fry a egg on the amp, but it ran and ran good without shutting down... Remember the good old days of Orion, Soundstream, Linear Power, Rockford... they were all under rating their amps, and big time for the Big Game Manufacturers.. And Orion pretty much set the standard on that one ( I fully believe this is true, as once the hcca orions were killing the competition, others followed suit)... Anyway enough babbling...

Orion was BOUND to MAKE A POINT!!!!!! They were going to put out a amp that did under 1 watt of power (per factory manual specs), but kicked some ass in the lanes.. But they really didnt want (or couldnt, i dont know) to invest a ton of Money in tooling, etc. for a NEW redesigned amp line... Off of studies, or sales reports, etc.. They decided, that the silver series of the 425hcca there were not alot sold (i do not know the actual figures), so they would NOT have to retool anything, they would use the same chassis as the 425's were, and release them as the CONCEPT series, and be able to use everything they currently had tooled to do so.. They made ch. 1/2 the smaller side and 3/4 the higher side. with a 25x2 on one side and 50x2 on other.. And the ONLY thing they would have to do is engrave the pop off top differently (smart)

ok, round 2 (this was common knowledge to competitors, and i knew this), Orion now had the mids/highs amp principle designed using existing parts, they needed a power house to rock the lanes and compete... So they simple took the existing Beast 2250 and used a raw heatsink and stampled it the 97.3... There they made their point, a 1 watt amp, stable down to .000666777 or some crazy thing, and stated that into their manual, therefore they were legally able to compete in the lowest of power classes while putting out in excess of 1000 watts... But then came the big problem... the amp would only do 4 ohm mono, or 2 ohm mono in burst.. Oh, they made the point, for those who knew what to do with the amp.. but the normal customer actually took the amp at face value and started burning them up, that was orions own doing.. 

As far as on your amps why the ends are polished, he even had no idea, because they did come with the settings, etc. marked on the amp, just like any other amp they had.. He figured maybe they got scratch up from install or nicked or something, or someone was actually going to try to polish them to a show finish or something, no real idea, but they are the same markings as the 425, so any speck sheet will show that...

So i guess you could actually say, the 425 had a helping hand to the birth of the CONCEPT 97.1 

Hope this all helps you clear all this up.. You have a bad side and good side.. The ends being polished off, Hurts the amp value, that being said, seeing how these were factory produced, BUT at the time no one was interested in the color scheme, then that means not alot sold, so SHOULD bring the value back up...

Only the market can decide on the value... But you now have the FULL skinny on these amps...

The 225, 425, and Concept still remain the most sought after amps in the field... if kept in good clean shape such as yours are in, i dont see a decline in any value.. 

I would repost up in ebay or even here... And if need be, you have my permission to use this thread statement to post with it.. 

GL..
DMAN


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks dman i really do appreciate all of this.Guess we both learned something new today..


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

sancho20 said:


> thanks dman i really do appreciate all of this.Guess we both learned something new today..


yeah... good luck on your sale.. I really think if you post them up again with plenty of good pics, and lay out all the modules that are supposed to come with them (6), i dont see why you couldnt get $450-$500 ea., but like i said before, its a little bit tough market right now.. Worse case scenario if your in no big hurry, hang on to them and post every 4-6 months or so. Its really a timing thing.. When someone is ready to buy one, they buy, know what i mean.. You need any other help or info, let me know..


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## sancho20 (Jan 6, 2011)

yea i thought they would sell quick on ebay ..but i may keep 1 and try to trade the other one for one of my buddies 97.3..


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

Wonder what my polished 280GX is worth?


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Wonder what my polished 280GX is worth?


nothing more than any other 280gx.. any polishing or whatnot was never done at the factory, only original GS series (gold plating).. if its done really nice, you might fetch a little more.. We used to plate all the time back in the day.. But what you need to look at, is the plating.. is it chrome or nickel? It should be nickel, as chrome would not take correctly because of the fins, look between the fins, if its smooth and looks perfectly clean, more than likely its nickel, if it looks more webby or i should say kinda sandy paper like, then someone attempted to chrome it.. it its actually polished, then they would have had to hot dip it first to remove the anodize, the polise the hell out of it, and it would take the fine lines in the ribbing off, its almost impossible to explain without standing there and pointing it out, what im trying to say.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Wonder what my polished 280GX is worth?


$50.


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

imjustjason said:


> $50.


You just want to buy it.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

i would think a little more than that, lol.. of course if its all pitted up, etc. Then imjustjason is offering to overpay...


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> You just want to buy it.


You have many, many Orion's I'd like to have... that 280 is pretty low on the list.


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