# B&W Speakers for car



## s2groove (May 18, 2007)

I've been throwing around the Idea of getting a b&w center channel with 2 midbasses and using them in a active car system. I found a semi-inexpensive center with great looking drivers here: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207164872

I'm sure this can be done with other non-car audio brands. It just seeems like a good way to try something different. Anybody curious or ever try this? I may have to pick up that center if no one else does, but I see centers like these go for that price time and time again, and the drivers would probably be close to seas level performance around the same price.


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## effenay (Mar 2, 2006)

Great idea, but I think the main reasons you don't see many people doing this are:

Unknown mounting depth of the raw drivers

Unpublished T/S parameters for the raw drivers


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

Check this site out for a _crazy guy_ that competed in the '90s with different B&W speakers in different installs in his red BMW.

Earl Zausmer


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Earl Zausmer's BMW 540

It's rare to win over 90% of all car audio competitions entered in a 5-year period ("best of show", "best in class", "best sound") and even more rare to be featured not only in all of the major car audio magazines but also to appear in Time, on MTV and CNBC, and in more than 211 newspapers in the US as well as 27 magazines worldwide, yet that's only part of the acclaim and attention awarded to Earl Zausmer's BMW 540i which undoubtedly ranks as one of the most widely publicized car audio systems ever.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

to save the car from oblivion. In February, 2005 we purchased the car from a nice Christian family in Oregon for use as a demo and reference system.


Components:

Two Milbert BaM-235 vacuum tube amplifiers ($5k) 
Sony XES-Z50 system (~$8k) 
B&W Nautilus 801D + Silver Signature speaker system (~$13k) 
Straight Wire Maestro interconnect and speaker wires (~$7k) 
2-layer Dynamat on all resonant surfaces (~$3k) 
Racing Dynamics wheels ($4k) 
Dinan suspension and performance chip ($3k) 
Zapco transistorized subwoofer amps ($3k) 
Two Optima deep-cycle yellow-top sealed batteries 
Street Wires power wiring & fuses 
Features:

Milbert Tube amplification 
LASER positioning; Time alignment 
Head-up mirror-mounted display 
Trunk shock-mounted changer 
Custom enclosures & mounts 
15" subwoofers, all speakers mounted up front 
400 lbs. of sound deadening 
Remote & control stalk 
Vented battery compartment 
Gold


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

here you go http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-B-W-Nautil...oryZ3292QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

I am currently running the B&W FST (fixed suspension transducer) 6" midrange drivers in my truck. These are the ones that are used in the flagship 800 series B&W speakers. I'm afraid I'm a bit disappointed...these drivers are supposed to eliminate upper midrange coloration at breakup frequencies, and their tech white paper is very interesting. But I'm still getting coloration, even in a purpose-built out-of-car enclosure.

To me, the FST is the best of B&W (aside from the nautilus and tube enclosures). The rest you can get elsewhere.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

s2groove said:


> I've been throwing around the Idea of getting a b&w center channel with 2 midbasses and using them in a active car system. I found a semi-inexpensive center with great looking drivers here: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207164872
> 
> I'm sure this can be done with other non-car audio brands. It just seeems like a good way to try something different. Anybody curious or ever try this? I may have to pick up that center if no one else does, but I see centers like these go for that price time and time again, and the drivers would probably be close to seas level performance around the same price.


Good idea if its a ultra expensive speaker, and only because its is then a really great driver (maybe) among all the other known great DIY drivers out there but not necessarily _better_. 

But at that price that center channel probably has more money put into fit and finish and crossover then the drivers performance. It might be good quality but you will spend less buying good quality DIY driver since you won't be paying for pretty drivers, a box, and a xover.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> But at that price that center channel probably has more money put into fit and finish and crossover then the drivers performance. It might be good quality but you will spend less buying good quality DIY driver since you won't be paying for pretty drivers, a box, and a xover.


This is very true from the perspective of price. The B&W 800 series speakers cost $15,000 a piece. The FST driver alone (bought as a replacement driver from B&W) costs $95.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the raw drivers are not well-designed.  On the contrary, they seem to have put a lot of research into them. Too bad it doesn't seem to have quite worked out (IMO), but that's another matter.


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## s2groove (May 18, 2007)

I think if I get the center, then take the drivers out and send them to get measured by someone like npdang to see how they perform. If they are unworkable, or need too much eq'ing to sound right then I can just put them back in the center and sell it. Hopefully the cheaper drivers will work better in a car than the 800 series drivers did (probably not though). I had planned on pairing the drivers with morel supremo piccolos, so maybe I wont run into that upper midrange coloration by crossing them at around 2khz or a bit lower.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

s2groove said:


> I think if I get the center, then take the drivers out and send them to get measured by someone like npdang to see how they perform. If they are unworkable, or need too much eq'ing to sound right then I can just put them back in the center and sell it. Hopefully the cheaper drivers will work better in a car than the 800 series drivers did (probably not though). I had planned on pairing the drivers with morel supremo piccolos, so maybe I wont run into that upper midrange coloration by crossing them at around 2khz or a bit lower.


Yeah, crossing them at 2khz will probably do the trick. But then again, crossing at 2khz will do the trick for just about any 6" driver. The beauty of the FST was supposed to be that they explicitly designed it so that (1) cone breakup waves were randomized and self-cancelling, and (2) the effective radiating area decreased at higher frequency, reducing beaming. That was supposed to allow you to take it up to 4khz or so. But I built a large resonance-free enclosure, and there was still quite a bit of coloration at the higher freqs. Both in-car and out-of-car.

No need to spend all that money on B&W speakers. I only paid $95 for my FSTs, so I didn't waste too much money trying this experiment out. Since you already have the drivers, no risk in trying it out yourself...but if you really don't need your center, then I would sell the center for a ton of money, buy a DIY driver like the Dayton (or the B&W, for that matter), and pocket the change.


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## s2groove (May 18, 2007)

where can I get the raw 800 series drivers?


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Call B&W USA: (978) 664-2870


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## s2groove (May 18, 2007)

Don't you have to prove that it's a replacement driver for a speaker of theirs, or they just sell them to anybody who inquires? I'm suprised that they'd sell their premier driver at $95 each. I'll call them later in the afternood to see what happens. Thanks for the info and number.
-Andy


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

You don't have to prove it, but you do have to lie in the sense that you have to ask for a "replacement speaker".

"What advantages does this motor car have over, say, a train -- which I could also afford?"


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

I wonder if Earl Zausmer bought his drivers direct from B&W?

I remember reading somewhere that he had a driver or some drivers go bad do to the elements? I remember being blown away by that due to the fact that the B&W Nautilus speakers are very expensive... And some of the acticles about his car lead you to believe that he bought a set of the speakers and took them apart to use just the drivers. Now that would be crazy! I am sure he did not do that???


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

WLDock said:


> I wonder if Earl Zausmer bought his drivers direct from B&W?
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that he had a driver or some drivers go bad do to the elements? I remember being blown away by that due to the fact that the B&W Nautilus speakers are very expensive... And some of the acticles about his car lead you to believe that he bought a set of the speakers and took them apart to use just the drivers. Now that would be crazy! I am sure he did not do that???


The last time I talked to Earl was in the tweek and tune area of the '98 IASCA finals in Dallas, TX. (Jeez, almost 10 years ago.) He just got the last version of the install done, with the 15"s in the firewall and the huge pods on the dash. While he was cleaning he said after he moved from Philly to Phoenix, the AZ sun melted the epoxy coating on the kevlar cones on the 5.25" mids that rose out of the dash in the previous install.


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Maybe you can purchase the raw drivers from the Jaguar XKR system. Probably not cheap, but they would definitely be different and purpose built for the car audio environment.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2041&terid=2266


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

If my math is good, looks to be around $46,000.00 for this

excerpt]
Two Milbert BaM-235 vacuum tube amplifiers ($5k) 
Sony XES-Z50 system (~$8k) 
B&W Nautilus 801D + Silver Signature speaker system (~$13k) 
Straight Wire Maestro interconnect and speaker wires (~$7k) 
2-layer Dynamat on all resonant surfaces (~$3k) 
Racing Dynamics wheels ($4k) 
Dinan suspension and performance chip ($3k) 
Zapco transistorized subwoofer amps ($3k)


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

MACS said:


> Maybe you can purchase the raw drivers from the Jaguar XKR system. Probably not cheap, but they would definitely be different and purpose built for the car audio environment.
> 
> http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2041&terid=2266


Yeah, just imagine what Jaguar would want for that stuff. It is not worth it. Just grab any top name raw drivers that suite your taste and call it a day.


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## my89_928gt (Aug 22, 2006)

B&W did make car speakers back around late 80's early 90's.

I bought some off Ebay some years back. 
I had like 3 complet componet sets.
Also, had two 8" woofers.
I sat on them for a couple years and fnaly sold them. Never did install them 

Richard


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

cmusic said:


> The last time I talked to Earl was in the tweek and tune area of the '98 IASCA finals in Dallas, TX. (Jeez, almost 10 years ago.) He just got the last version of the install done, with the 15"s in the firewall and the huge pods on the dash. While he was cleaning he said after he moved from Philly to Phoenix, the AZ sun melted the epoxy coating on the kevlar cones on the 5.25" mids that rose out of the dash in the previous install.


I listened to it when it still had the 4" drivers in the elevator pods... fantastic!


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## my89_928gt (Aug 22, 2006)

I forgot witch catalog, but I have seen diamond tweeters. Two different pair. If memory serves $4000 for the cheeper ones.
I bet one of these are used in those expensive speakers they have with the diamond tweeters. 
Have not got to hear them yet. But, their is a store near me that has them.


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## bobduch (Jul 22, 2005)

I've got LM50 and LM60 car drivers.
Also some of the older version 801 tweeters.
Using some of the tweeters in my Honda van replacing the Dyn MD100s in my 360 set.


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## my89_928gt (Aug 22, 2006)

That would be them. I do not recall if it was the LM50 or 60 that I had.
Wish I had kept one set. Dam things were big and at the time I did not know what I was doing. I could not get them in the door of my 928(stock location) even with a 3/4" spacer.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

i had some pair of speakers years ago, i think it was 2 x 5" drivers in each frame (2 frames) and i think they were b+w? i also had some 8" subs by same b+w.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

MACS said:


> Maybe you can purchase the raw drivers from the Jaguar XKR system. Probably not cheap, but they would definitely be different and purpose built for the car audio environment.
> 
> http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2041&terid=2266


When this info came out, I looked into putting at least B&W technology in my car. They have very little info at B&W North America. The PR gal gave me a contact at the design center quoted in the article. In my very brief conversation with him, he wasn't very forth coming.... As for the drivers, I am sure they are great, however Ill keep my Dynes. 

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=146185


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## bobduch (Jul 22, 2005)

LM60 was two roughly 4" drivers on a plate.
LM50 was a single driver. The mid from the 801 but with a bigger surround and 4 ohm coil.

We tried the 801 tweeter (older version) against the MD100 and it stomped the MD100. It was also significantly better than the MD130. Wish we could have compared to a MD330 (esotar). xover for testing was 4khz.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

bobduch said:


> We tried the 801 tweeter (older version) against the MD100 and it stomped the MD100. It was also significantly better than the MD130. Wish we could have compared to a MD330 (esotar). xover for testing was 4khz.


What do you mean by stomp?

And I have tested ESOTAR (Confidence C1) vs 803.......


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

CAMSHAFT said:


> What do you mean by stomp?
> 
> And I have tested ESOTAR (Confidence C1) vs 803.......


How'd you find them?


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

THE ESOTARs were allot sweeter, more forgiving, as well as more true to life.....


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## bobduch (Jul 22, 2005)

Stomped as in so much better there really is no comparison.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

CAMSHAFT said:


> THE ESOTARs were allot sweeter, more forgiving, as well as more true to life.....


I like both but it seems the C1 has alot more emotion and sounds bolder than the 803. It's almost like you can touch the images. How I wish I can hear a car that can sound close to it.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

invecs said:


> How I wish I can hear a car that can sound close to it.


That was my goal.....  But sadly it was delayed with my crash.....


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## Ianaconi (Nov 11, 2006)

It is possible guys!

I know a guy here in Brazil who is doing it.

Here in my city there is the B&W National Distributor, I can buy the raw drivers if I want for the B&W 805 Series for example. In the store he also has one of the best audio rooms in the world for auditioning the B&W Nautilus.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

The Dynaudio Confidence C1 spanks the 803

I have a pair of C4's in my den and they are better than anything B/W have ever made at any price

Christian




CAMSHAFT said:


> What do you mean by stomp?
> 
> And I have tested ESOTAR (Confidence C1) vs 803.......


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

I agree, the ESOTARS are in another league

Christian




bobduch said:


> Stomped as in so much better there really is no comparison.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Don't waste your time. To many speakers available today for next to nothing that will be better and be complete with networks

Earles car sounded great but at the time there was a lack of highend drivers around, he also had wonderful gear and went to an extreme for imaging/etc, hell, any speaker would have sounded great in his car

Christian




s2groove said:


> I've been throwing around the Idea of getting a b&w center channel with 2 midbasses and using them in a active car system. I found a semi-inexpensive center with great looking drivers here: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207164872
> 
> I'm sure this can be done with other non-car audio brands. It just seeems like a good way to try something different. Anybody curious or ever try this? I may have to pick up that center if no one else does, but I see centers like these go for that price time and time again, and the drivers would probably be close to seas level performance around the same price.


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

^Agree. B&W's drivers are good, but I wouldn't say they're good enough to justify all that money and effort because you'd most likely get better performance spending not near as much on SEAS Excels, Scanspeak Revs, or Audiotechnology C-quenze mids and accompanying tweeters.


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