# Cone area difference 6.5'' vs. 6x9?



## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Just wondering how much more cone area a typical 6x9'' dedicated midbass would have over a typical 6.5''? I'm asking because a friend with a Tundra wants me to upgrade his front stage. We did the substage a while back and will now be doing the front and he wants strong midbass so I thought about trying out some 6x9's. Possibly even the HAT Imagines or the Morel Tempo Ultra. He's not an audiophile or looking to compete. Just needs a decent upgrade from factory with lots of midbass. Would appreciate any input.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Here is a handy little chart...

Diameter of speaker*|*Cone area of speaker in square inches

18"*--->*254
15"*--->*192
13.5"*--->*143
12"*--->*113
11"*--->*95
10"*--->*79
8"*--->*50
6x9*--->*42
6x8*--->*38
6.5"*--->*33
4x10*--->*31
5x7*--->*28
5.25"*--->*22
4"*--->*13
3.5"*--->*10
2"*--->*3


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

papasin said:


> Here is a handy little chart...
> 
> Diameter of speaker*|*Cone area of speaker in square inches
> 
> ...


Nice. Thanks papasin. I know how to calculate cone area for round drivers but the ovals had me stumped. Will definitely save that chart. Thanks again!


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Can you shoehorn an 8" in the stock 6x9 location?

Here's an example courtesy of JT Audio


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

papasin said:


> Can you shoehorn an 8" in the stock 6x9 location?
> 
> Here's an example courtesy of JT Audio


Actually a quick google search tells me that I CAN fit an 8" in there. Problem is I would like to either stick with a passive setup or even a "point source". He is not wanting to go overboard here. If it were my truck though, there would definitely be 8's in the doors.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Remember HAT do a 7.1" version, based on the Imagine speakers ... if i remember rightly

http://www.biketronics.com/bt7p1-speaker-upgrade/

https://www.facebook.com/hybridaudi...178054.189181953946/10151926792398947/?type=1


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> Remember HAT do a 7.1" version, based on the Imagine speakers ... if i remember rightly
> 
> http://www.biketronics.com/bt7p1-speaker-upgrade/
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/hybridaudi...178054.189181953946/10151926792398947/?type=1


I actually discovered those earlier today but wasn't sure how close they are to the Imagines or if they would work well in a car door.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm trying to find the quote where someone pointed out that they; looked like the Mirus, but actually they were based on 'more' on the imagines than the Mirus.



mires said:


> or if they would work well in a car door.


Go on, be the guinea pig for us, then come back and tell us how they sound.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

if the drivers you are looking at have the T/S specs. look at the SD of the driver. that is driver area.

there is no pat answer for cone area, the whole geometry of the driver will effect it.

look at these (3) 6.5" all three have different SD

Peerless 830946 6-1/2" Paper Cone Woofer Speaker 4 Ohm

Dayton Audio PS180-8 6-1/2" Point Source Full-Range Neo Driver

Dayton Audio DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer

8" and 6x9 will have about the same SD (again, depending on model)

This is the 8" version of the dayton classic 6.5" woofer. about 74 cu cm more than the 6.5" 35% more in this case.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

papasin said:


> Here is a handy little chart...
> 
> Diameter of speaker*|*Cone area of speaker in square inches
> 
> ...



good chart for a general idea, but the depth of the cone will greatly effect the SD. This chart is for the area of a circle and doesnt take into account that it is a cone.

as an example, the area of an 18" circle is 254 sqin (as the guide says)

the sqin of an 18" that is 5" deep is 545 sq in. HUGE difference.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

minbari said:


> if the drivers you are looking at have the T/S specs. look at the SD of the driver. that is driver area.
> 
> there is no pat answer for cone area, the whole geometry of the driver will effect it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input minbari. I knew it was just a rough guide which is pretty much all I am looking for but what you have said is interesting. I never knew that is what SD was in the parameters. Learn something new every day


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## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

If a speaker is dished deeply or say, flat coned, does it truly make a difference? The "column" of air it is moving will be the same size regardless of how concave the piston. What am I not seeing correctly?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

From what I remember the depth of a cone makes no difference in effective piston area. If so we would have some really odd shaped comes to increase area. There's an old thread on this because I also thought depth and even those with an irregular surface had more effective area but I think it's entirely 2 dimensional.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

6x9 cone area is much bigger. If you can dig up the T/S specs, you can see that in most cases, the 6x9 cone area is close to an 8 inch mid-bass. Personally, I'd try to use the 6x9 speaker for better midbass, specially considering that a few good examples are available, such as Hybrid Audio Imagine or Image Dynamics xs-69


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Infinity said:


> If a speaker is dished deeply or say, flat coned, does it truly make a difference? The "column" of air it is moving will be the same size regardless of how concave the piston. What am I not seeing correctly?


I'm 99% sure you're right. 

Also, for the OP, Dyn drivers usually run on the small side. Not that small but small enough to where their 8" has less cone area than most 8s and might be an easier fit and also would have a higher beaming frequency to mate with the tweeter easier. Even my 10" 182s have just a little more cone area than the higher cone area 8" midbasses and pretty much on par with the typical 9" midbass (235cm^2). That's why I always refer to them as a 9". At 3" deep and a very slim design it was very easy to fit in my car door that came with 6.5s. If that tundra used a 3-way I would suggest this midbass but the mw172 would be a great choice and should fit in the 6x9 hole easily. 

There are/were some very cheap ($150) 172 8" midbasses in the for sale section.


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

mires said:


> I know how to calculate cone area for round drivers but the ovals had me stumped.


google ftw!

https://www.google.com/#q=area+of+an+ellipse&safe=off


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

gregerst22 said:


> Does anybody post Sd specs on 6x9's?


If you look at the Imagine manual, you can get the Sd of the respective drivers. For instance, the 6.5" mid is 11690 mm^2 (18.125 in^2) and the 6x9 is 20,420 mm^2 (31.656 in^2).


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Aren't most 6.5" mids 120-125cm^2? 116 seems so low. Maybe they don't include 1/2 of the surround?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I thought the same thing, but I pulled the numbers straight from the manual. I know my Illusion C6s (inverted motor) have an Sd of 129 cm^2, and the C6 CXs (concentric coax) are 128.7 cm^2. My wife's more traditional Illusion E6 have an Sd of 137 cm^2. So yes, the HAT numbers do seem pretty low to me. The Unity line from HAT has a similarly small Sd, and the Clarus does come up a bit to 124.69 cm^2.


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