# bmw 528i - hybrid audio - image dynamics - zapco



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

hello! new member and first time posting here...

i'm putting together a system for my "new" '00 bmw 528i. i'm not new to car audio, but at the same time i don't consider myself a pro installer or anything like that. just another diy'er trying to get the job done as well as possible without breaking the bank.

my goal is to build a "great" (subjective...) sounding system while still utilizing the oem head unit for a factory look and oem functionality/integration. while i am adding oversized woofers and pillar-mounted mids, i want it to look as oem as possible.

the chosen gear:

- oem business cd player (alpine-made) from an '03 5-series (allows sat radio integration and an aux-in)
- terk universal xm unit + blitzsafe xm integration unit for bmw
- tape to cd player "plugpaq" conversion harness from european auto source 
- hybrid audio legatia l8, l3, and l1
- image dynamics idq-12 (v2, from a previous install)
- zapco digital reference dc360.4 to drive the l3 and l1
- ppi pcx-4125 to drive the l8s and idq-12 (eventually to be replaced w/ zap dc1000.4)
- dynamat xtreme, 1/4" dynaliner, & xorb pads
- a spare set of door cards to hack up
- gray grill cloth


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

installation status:































































































































missed taking a picture of the sub box mounted to the baffle...it is actually attached to the baffle so that it seals to and directly pressurizes the cabin.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Nice. question: what mids and highs are you using?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

thanks!

going to use the l3 and l1. the l3 will go at the base of the pillars as on-axis as possible and the l1 will go in the oem location, right next to them on the back side of the side mirrors. this should be the widest location for stage width. i'm just hoping the 50w x 4 from the dc360.4 will be enough juice for them. being that they'll be so close to the listening position, i'm hoping it'll be enough.

any advice?

thanks!
- ben


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

Looking good, Ben.
So the L3's are going into the a-pillars on axis, right?
Remember that you need to let those "see" as much air as you can, so leave the back open and try to vent them to the side of the dash.
Also "chamfer" the back of the baffle to try and clear the basket as much as you can.
If you are going to modify the a-pillars, you might want to try and get those L1's up there. Try the totally off axis and slightly on axis. 
I think that would work better than the sail panel location.

Jorge.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

If I were you, I would mount the mid and tweet facing the same way. I don't know much, but I know that might sound better


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

if you look where the dash meets the door in this picture, you can see the oem tweeter grill. i plan to mount the tweeter under that grill aimed towards the center. then the l3 will go right smack next to it at the bottom of the a-pillar in a pod that brings it out to match the angle of the l1.

make sense? sound reasonable?

doitor - i definately plan to keep the backs of the pods open to vent down into the dash. scott was very certain to make sure i knew that they need as much air space behind them as possible.

thanks!
- ben


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

pics of the exterior.......I kinda of wish than when we post up install pics that we post atleast one pic of what it is going in.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

no problem! taken just after i bought it:










can you believe i scored this car for $8,500???



god, i love depreciation!


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## 8tz (Mar 6, 2008)

niiiiiice!


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

Sounds good, Ben.
If you already talked to Scott, I'm pretty sure you know what to do.
If I can help you in any way, let me know.
I'll be visiting your thread pretty often.
Keep it up.
And x2 with Borat, nice car.

Jorge.


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

veerrry niise! I like you car... it is niiise.

Good choice of machinery and +1 on the depreciation. 5 series were over $75G's when new here in Aus, now their all well under $30k, with the lower spec ones down to $15K... which is very cheap for cars that are 5 to 10 years old.


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## mulletboy2 (Aug 17, 2006)

Nicely done so far Ben  

If you're installing the mids on-axis, it makes sense to install the tweets on axis too. I assume you'll be using amplitude correction and running a single seat setup, so you might as well get the benefit of the tweet's on-axis response.

Keep up the good work 

Mark


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

he said he was'ng going to install the tweets on axis with the mids. I suggested he did


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

i did?

the angle of the tweeters behind those oem grills is pretty much on-axis. maybe i failed to mention that.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

so you are saying the tweeters are facing you? All I am suggesting is that you place the mid/tweet on the same axis point.  I don't know much, but I know a little about that.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

BigRed, please stop confusing Benny. 
He knows what he's doing.
j/k, man.
You can confuse him all you want. 

Jorge.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

perhaps i shall draw you a picture.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

here is your picture. 

it's slightly deceiving, though, in that in person it appears more on axis than it is showing in the picture. i'll likely aim the l1 a little more on axis than the oem angle, and the l3 will have the same axis. the oem axis has the tweeters aimed pretty much dead center of the car, in between the seats. make sense?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

finally had a spare evening to wire up the ppi amp to drive the l8s and idq.

i'm a little preterbed, though. it's doesn't allow me the crossover control that I really want. it's got a 12db/oct slope, which I knew (would prefer a 24db/oct slope)… but what i didn’t realize until last night is that the lowest frequency that you can high pass at is 52hz. i was really hoping to experiment with a 40hz crossover point on those l8s.

guess i'll have to live with it until i can afford the zap dc1000.4 to replace it.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Benny, with the L8's, you're mounting baffle must be really secure to have the L8's shine at 40hz. In other words, while you are waiting for equip. etc. to be able to go down to the 40 club, work on your environment you are placing them in  I learned this the hard way


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

great advice!

any input for inprovement in that area based on what you see? the baffles are birch covered in fg resin and glass reinforment around the speaker rings and door pocket recessed portion. they are attached with 3 oem screws and also mdf blocks with t-nuts and bolts, which clamp them to the frame at the bottom. matting all around to seal them up...


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

I went back and looked at your doors....looks pretty darn good. what did it sound like at 52hz? rattles? resonance?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yeah, they are pretty darn solid. 

from the brief testing last night, no rattles from the doors themselves, but the airbags, plastic wire clips, window switches, etc, are going nuts. lol! definately battles to be won there...


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## redgst97 (Mar 12, 2008)

My L6s are playing to 40hz....L8s would be killer though!!!

Looks great so far.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

That looks real nice and your doors look great.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

redgst97 said:


> My L6s are playing to 40hz....L8s would be killer though!!!


Yes they would. 
You HAVE to try it.

Jorge.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

doitor said:


> You HAVE to try it.


yeah, i've had all of a few hours listening time and can already tell you that i have a new definition for what up front midbass is all about.

i don't think i'll be buying a new midbass for a lonnnnnnnnnnnng time to come...


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

Ben, Once you finish your install turn the sub off and just play your front stage speakers. Let the L8's play down to 40 Hz.
You wont even notice the sub is off.
Those L8's are AWESOME.
Now stop readind the forums and go finish your install. j/k.


Jorge.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

unfortunately i'm on hold for a moment.

i'm doing this in a series of 3 "stages". first stage was the source unit upgrade & xm. second stage is the l8 and sub + ppi install. the final stage will be the l3 and l1 + zapco install.

i plan to run the l8s and sub with the oem mid and tweeter while i build the pillars for the l3s. i decided that a pro installer friend of mine has much better finishing skills than i do and have given him the door cards to build oem-looking grills onto to cover the l8s. it should be very clean...hoping to pick them up next week. the door cards have oem 2" mids in them, so for now i'm having to put up with a rear soundstage for anything over what the l8s are playing. ...but i think i've got the levels set to blend nicely. these should compliment the rest of the oem front stage very nicely.

i will likely end up having him also build the pillar pods for the l3s, too. his shop is likely going to be the newest hat retailer in illinois, so i'm holding off on buying the l3 and l1 until that process is finalized. he's very excited about the hat products, as well he should be! 

so, in short, this may be the last update for a few weeks.

cheers!
- ben


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

I just saw this install over on carsound forum.... ghost town.

I like your approach to your IB baffles. Enables a virtually stock looking door panel if thats whats yiu're after.

After looking at my doors my ONLY option considering my minimal cabin intrusion requirements is to go IB and your idea looks great. 

My initial plan to avoid all the rattles since I want to be in the 45/40 HZ club, was to do a small sealed enclosure that would be convertible to IB with a removable plug....but the doors would stick out too far.


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## Mr X (Aug 27, 2007)

I really do like the approach you took with the doors. It's giving me a few ideas to rebuild my own


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## bigjae1976 (Jun 21, 2007)

Looks great. Most BMW sedans have the tweet in the same location. You should get pretty good results.

I love the E39 5 series...conservative yet classy styling. Unlike the newer fugly 5 series.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

GlasSman said:


> I just saw this install over on carsound forum.... ghost town.


no kidding! i think i'm just going to stop posting there.



GlasSman said:


> I like your approach to your IB baffles. Enables a virtually stock looking door panel if thats whats yiu're after.





Mr X said:


> I really do like the approach you took with the doors. It's giving me a few ideas to rebuild my own


thanks guys... i'm really happy with how they've turned out. i cannot take credit for the design, as i've copied another e39 bimmer friend in new zealand who's just built the same type of baffles for his new 6x9 id midbass drivers. here is a link to a picture of how his turned out. as you can see, mine is nearly a carbon copy (even down to the color of the car!), but for hat l8s. he is doing the door cards differently (pods), but the guts underneath are the same.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rpandkp/BMW 540 e39/IMG_0512sml.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/rpandkp/BMW 540 e39/IMG_0518sml.jpg

today i turned the sub off and set the l8s to full pass...their signal is currently only a midbass signal as they are being tapped from the oem 3-way's midbass feed... played some music that i knew wouldn't destroy them, as i know scott recommended a 25hz filter which i don't have, and i was very pleased at the low end output. i had a friend give a listen and he said he'd be happy without an additional sub. being spoiled with it already, i'm going to keep it, but he's right...one really doesn't need a sub with these.

this would be a great lightweight sub alternative option!



bigjae1976 said:


> I love the E39 5 series...conservative yet classy styling.


indeed! i'm very happy with the car overall. an m5 would've been nice...but...


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## saucybmw540i (May 12, 2007)

ive got a 1995 540i... just installed a 10" brahma sub in the ski-thru trunk hole.

I like it a lot better than just a trunk-mounted sub.... covered the box in tan vinyl to match the leather and used foam to seal the box up to the firewall.

awesome install.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

In my 745, i used the ski hole with 2 12's and it sound suprisingly good as well.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

another arrival!


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

Are those a *matched* pair of L3's and L1's?
Nice.

Jorge.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

matched pair of l3s, yes. $35 was a small price to pay for such a service, imho. i can post the spec sheet later if you'd like.

cheers!
- ben


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## lostsuspect21 (Mar 28, 2008)

sexy


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

picked up the door cards today. pretty happy with how they turned out.










this shows a comparison of how they look compared to stock.










and installed.










unfortunately i'm having some fitment issues with the rear pocket. going to have to figure something out with those tomorrow. for now i left them off.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

Those look pretty much stock, benny Z.
I like'em.

Jorge.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

my installer friend and i finally found a couple of hours yesterday to mock up and aim some rings for the l3 mids. darned conflicting schedules!

i'm leaving the pillar builds to him, as i'm sure i'd do a stellar job at muffing them up.

here are some spy fotos...yes, i have full confidence that they will be ugly as sin!




























nevermind the mirror on crack!!!


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## Dougie085 (May 2, 2006)

Yes depreciation truly is awesome  I'm looking for a car right now and at the top of the list is a 2002-2004 Audi S4 which I normally would never be able to afford but I can almost pay cash for one now.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Nice doors Benny.

Any build pics?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

unfortunately not.

it is a pretty simple deal, though. i cut out the triangle section above the front door pocket and removed the pocket. this left a big open triangle for the woofer to fit through. i do have a picture of that. somewhere... ah, here it is.










then i took the door cards to my buddy because i knew he could stretch the grill cloth better than i could. he cut out the shape you see of the new grills from 1/4" mdf. it is thin enough to contour to the shape of the door and is simply screwed in place from behind.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

I hate BMW's and Hybrid Audio Technologies.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

OK, so I had made up my mind as to what to do....now revisiting this post, I am more tempted to follow your lead on the doors. I am assuming with the modification on the door panels, there is no way to turn them back to stock? Would have been nice. Also, PLEASE keep us posted about the pod build up for the L3's, I would really like to see how they turn out.

Ben, are you happy with the sound quality of the head unit? after all the adapters being connected?


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Benny, where you able to reinstall the OEM rear pocket? It looks like it in this pic:










I'm trying to grasp the reason for having to glass the rear pocket form. Fill me in. I think I might do the same thing (with respect to the front portion at least).


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

benny, why do you update this thread and not the one on BF.c


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

ianbiz said:


> benny, why do you update this thread and not the one on BF.c


because the audio forum on bf.c is mostly awful.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

I second that!!!^^


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

nice install!! quick question about the hat's. how much are the 8" and the 3" and tweet? and where can i get these? are you running them active or are you using a passive x-over? i'm interested in these and by the look of your install they are going to sound nice. keep up the good work.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

manish said:


> nice install!! quick question about the hat's. how much are the 8" and the 3" and tweet? and where can i get these? are you running them active or are you using a passive x-over? i'm interested in these and by the look of your install they are going to sound nice. keep up the good work.


Do it, you won't be sorry!


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## Auto (Jun 2, 2008)

Impressiv!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

wow - lots of replies. i need to check back in more often!

*slvrtsunami* - you are correct. no way will these door cards ever be stock again. although, honestly, to the untrained eye they could be stock. i picked up a spare set of door cards off ebay for under $80 shipped (can you believe it?), so i have another set to revert with if that time comes. same with the a-pillars...i've got another pair stock piled. as for the oem deck, so far i'm happy enough. could it be better? sure... and for that reason this car will likely be getting the denon treatment in the not so distant future. for now the oem alpine cd deck does just fine, though.

*blacksapphire* - yes, the reason for glassing up the rear portion of the baffle was to sink the recessed area so that i could reinstall the rear door pocket. i suppose you could find other ways to do this, but this way provides a very solid mounting baffle with no chance of front/rear wave cancellation. honestly, with this solid of a baffle, the l8s can play down to 40hz with surprising authority. i have them crossed at 63hz (12db), but without the crossover applied they do very well down lower for ib 8s.

*ianbiz* - i'll update the thread on bimmerforums when the pillars are complete. but i also agree with blacksapphire's and slvrtsunami's opinion. 

*manish* - this system is running active - no passive crossovers. the legatia line speakers do not come with passive crossovers, although hat will gladly custom design you a passive crossover network schematic tailored to your system's and car's needs, if you so choose. you can find info on all of the hat products online at www.hybrid-audio.com

thank you all for the compliments. hoping to have the mids and tweeters installed later this week.


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## suka4thong (May 14, 2008)

fantastic job!


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

manish said:


> nice install!! quick question about the hat's. how much are the 8" and the 3" and tweet? and where can i get these? are you running them active or are you using a passive x-over? i'm interested in these and by the look of your install they are going to sound nice. keep up the good work.


The L8, L3 and L1 component set is $879.99 (Model# L831-3)

I cannot tell you where to get them because we are not allowed to advertise on this site yet.

EDIT: Supporting Vendor membership is PAID. 

Here is a link to the Hybrid Audio Technologies product:

http://www.12velectronics.com/servlet/the-Hybrid-Audio-Technologies/Categories



BlackSapphire said:


> Do it, you won't be sorry!


+1


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Call Hybrid Technologies and ask for Scott. He can direct you to the closest dealer


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

BlackSapphire said:


> because the audio forum on bf.c is mostly awful.


lol, sad but true


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

benny z said:


> yeah, they are pretty darn solid.
> 
> from the brief testing last night, no rattles from the doors themselves, but the airbags, plastic wire clips, window switches, etc, are going nuts. lol! definately battles to be won there...


One of the biggest pains in this respect is that relay box on the passenger door. Tap on that baby.... it rattles.  I took it apart and can't recall what I found - lol.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

benny z said:


> picked up the door cards today. pretty happy with how they turned out.
> 
> this shows a comparison of how they look compared to stock.
> 
> ...


Benny, you say they made that grill baffle out of 1/4" MDF? Is the bottom edge of it flat/straight? I know the front most factory door pocket bows out towards the seat. How does this grill baffle fit against that area? Got any other pictures that show this part better?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

ah yes, i ended up covering every side of that darn relay box in dynamat. it's now a rather heavy plastic shiny box, but can still be opened for service if necessary. i think i've finally won all the rattle battles! 

i will take some more pics. the bottom contours to the form of the door - the mdf is thin enough that the screws from the back side just pull it in to fit the form.


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

benny z said:


> ah yes, i ended up covering every side of that darn relay box in dynamat. it's now a rather heavy plastic shiny box, but can still be opened for service if necessary. i think i've finally won all the rattle battles!
> 
> i will take some more pics. the bottom contours to the form of the door - the mdf is thin enough that the screws from the back side just pull it in to fit the form.


No rattles ftw.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

Benny, as you know, I do not usually like stuff that does not look OEM, but I have to say I really like your door panels. I think they look better than stock. They look so good that I believe BMW should have used your design instead of placing that factory grille where it is. It took a few looks to get used to, but I really like it. 

Of course you don't have door pocket's in the front of your doors, so you loose some storage there. (Ha! big deal More than enough trade-off for the SQ you gain)

By the way, how do you like my new dig's (green member name and all?) Makes me feel special.


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## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

welcome 12v... looking good benny.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

12v Electronics said:


> ...I have to say I really like your door panels. ...BMW should have used your design...


thanks, i appreciate the feedback, but honestly this is not my design. it is actually an inferior knock-off that i copied from a superior design i found that someone had done over on the carsound forums. theirs is similar, but somehow they were able to tuck the grill so that it is flush with the bottom. i would have preferred it this way, but i didn't have the rear clearance to mount them from behind - the l8s have too much excursion (wait - no such thing!).


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

benny z said:


> thanks, i appreciate the feedback, but honestly this is not my design. it is actually an inferior knock-off that i copied from a superior design i found that someone had done over on the carsound forums. theirs is similar, but somehow they were able to tuck the grill so that it is flush with the bottom. i would have preferred it this way, but i didn't have the rear clearance to mount them from behind - the l8s have too much excursion (wait - no such thing!).



Do you have link to this other build? I'd like to see it as well.

As for the relay box, mine is covered on all sides with Damplifier Pro - something inside of it still rattles though - it wasn't the plastic case itself. However.... it's quieter now and I can't hear it with the panel on.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

carsound forums are down, but i found where i had linked the images on bf...

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11907278&postcount=24

i still like what they did a lot better than mine... would have loved to be able to do that!


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Damn you Benny! Shucks... looks like I'm tearing up my doors now. That is very, very nice. I wonder how he made it look like part of the factory vapor barrier. It's tough to tell in those pics. Thank you for the link! I must find out more. 

EDIT: I see now that it's just Ensolite. Did the original post include any build info?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

not as it pertains to the door install, but there are some more pics of the car here.

http://www.hzemall.com/our_gallery/installs/2001_bmw_530i_second/install.htm


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Thanks benny. I'm not feeling that silver burl wood. However, his grilles are shweet. I'm ready to do this. I'm just still trying to visualize how they are secured on his door panels.


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

This is my first post here but when I saw your install I had to compliment it. It is a very nice install and I like how you made it look very factory or stealth. I would love to have that same setup. Great job. I do have one question. Now I'm a newbie so don't scald me. Are you using time alignment? If so are you using any on your sub? I have a networkable head unit that will give me time alignment for high, mid, and low but not more than that. So I want if there is a way to use time alignment on a 4-way system?


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

benny z said:


> not as it pertains to the door install, but there are some more pics of the car here.
> 
> http://www.hzemall.com/our_gallery/installs/2001_bmw_530i_second/install.htm


That some pretty nice work. I agree with BlSa about the silver wood. I really like the A pillars.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

ianbiz said:


> That some pretty nice work. I agree with BlSa about the silver wood. *I really like the A pillars*.


Me too.... A-pillars minus that strip of silver burl. lol


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

BlackSapphire said:


> Me too.... A-pillars minus that strip of silver burl. lol


Yeah. I need to learn to sew suede.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

OK, I just realized I posted my question on the wrong thread. OOps. sorry, black. Now, since I am in the right thread....Benny, any more build pics of the dash pods??


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

no, not yet... hopefully soon!!!

look what showed up on my doorstep today.

ready?










surrrrrrrrre you're ready?














REALLY sure you can handle this?





ok.












i think my erection might be as tall as the stack itself.


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## turbotuli (Jan 30, 2008)

WTF? 5 of them?! haha


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## mulletboy2 (Aug 17, 2006)

Coheednme13 said:


> This is my first post here but when I saw your install I had to compliment it. It is a very nice install and I like how you made it look very factory or stealth. I would love to have that same setup. Great job. I do have one question. Now I'm a newbie so don't scald me. Are you using time alignment? If so are you using any on your sub? I have a networkable head unit that will give me time alignment for high, mid, and low but not more than that. So I want if there is a way to use time alignment on a 4-way system?


With time alignment, you never/rarely want to align all of the channels - the furthest speaker away from you is what you "align" to, and that's usually the sub (but not always).. as a general rule of thumb though, TA for front tweet, mid and midbass will usually be sufficient.


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

thanks mulletboy


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## Ianaconi (Nov 11, 2006)

wow... 5?

wanna sell me one?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

hi guys - sorry, i missed the question about time alignment.

yes, i do have it by way of the built-in dsp in the zapco dc amp. i still need a 2nd to replace the ppi amp...looking to replace that with a dc 1000.4 to complete the system.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

And i tought I had a problem?
Only 3 Denon's and 2 Denford's?
What are you going to do with all those HU's, Benny?
Like Diogo, I also wouldn't mind trying one of those out.

Jorge.


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## Dougie085 (May 2, 2006)

Denon has HU's? When did that happen?


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

Benny, If they are the Denon's I think they are.....Then as a fellow E39 owner you should consider parting with one to me!!   


And Yes, Denon does make HU's.....just not recently or at least in the states.


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

zomg!!! Benny is srs bsns.


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

bumpy


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

sorry, no recent updates...

did finally nail down what i'm doing with the new source and amps.

going to use the denford 8250 and run symbilink cables from the balanced outputs directly to the amps... for amps i have landed on a trio of zap dc references... dc750.2, and 2 x dc360.4.

we're gonna do this up right one way or another.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

christmas in july!


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

OOOOHHHHH jealous!!


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

Does anyone know where I can get some of the specs on the denford headunits? I would appreciate it


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

what specs do you need to know?

might be able to help...

- ben


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

Just wondering does it have a 3-way or 4-way crossover. Does it have time alignment? What type of eq does it have and how many bands. Just things like that.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

gotcha.

no, the denon/denford decks don't have any bells and whistles. they are a simple high-quality source unit. you would need external processing power for the things you are asking about.


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## roysav (May 21, 2008)

hi to all,you just goto love the bigger bmw,s. lots of room to play with.


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

well if you don't mind me asking what do you use for external processing?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

The 8250 is a sweet unit. I ran mine through the balanced outs like you are doing except through a Rockford EPX2 symmetry processor. There was zero noise and excellent sq.
I do prefer my DRZ-9255 though due to the powerful crossover and processing built in, but they are both exceptional source units. You're gona love it


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## SPEEDBUILT (Jan 21, 2008)

What's that you say?
You want to sell the black one to me!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Coheednme13 said:


> well if you don't mind me asking what do you use for external processing?


this is precisely why i landed on the zapco dc reference amps. they are amps with on-board digital sound processing. there is software that drives the amps via a direct laptop connection. i also opted for the 1/2-din sized controller which allows you to hit a button to access stored preset configs, which i thought could come in handy.


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

can you find about these zapco amps on their website? Do the amps allow you to do such things as time alignment?


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

Thanks for all the info also I really like learning about ever option out there


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yessir - full onboard dsp including fully customizable crossover points/slopes, eq w/ selectable q and filters, and time alignment.


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## brandon5069 (Jun 16, 2008)

Good stuff, Ben!

I've got my eye on you...


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## Coheednme13 (May 10, 2008)

Wow!! That's pretty awesome. So there is another option for people who want to do a 4 or even 5 way active system.


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## AudioOutlaw (Jun 16, 2008)

benny z said:


> yessir - full onboard dsp including fully customizable crossover points/slopes, eq w/ selectable q and filters, and time alignment.





dont forget phase controls


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

brandon5069 said:


> Good stuff, Ben!
> 
> I've got my eye on you...


Welcome Brandon.

P.S. Benny - I'm BACK!!!!!!!!


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Gosh I want to do this in my 3 series... this is sweet.


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

haibane said:


> Gosh I want to do this in my 3 series... this is sweet.


When I get mine, you and I can have a competition like Benny and BlackSap.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

started on an amp rack. this will go vertically at the back of the trunk right behind the shallow sub box. will still leave plenty of trunk space.










i also deleted the red rockford fosgate logo from the 8250.



















considering deleting the zapco logo and model number from the drc-sl for a cleaner look.


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

SICKNESS!!! I really like that amp rack.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

benny z said:


>


I can has?


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## Hoot (Jan 18, 2008)

Benny, no issues with L8 driver depth and window clearance? Looks like your baffle builds out some, but probably a close call, eh?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

no issues - it just eeks by. 

you're in savoy? not far - i'm in bloom. come check em out!


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

I wish I was in Illinois, so I could check them out!!


Benny, you do realize I will be copying some of your install?!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

that is why we are here - to share ideas.

btw, my install uses bits and pieces of other peoples' installs i've seen. it's nothing original.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

benny z said:


> that is why we are here - to share ideas.
> 
> btw, my install uses bits and pieces of other peoples' installs i've seen. it's nothing original.


Yeah, stop copying me.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

Most good ideas have all been used up. It is getting very hard to be original anymore. 

Even this idea has been done:


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

12v Electronics said:


> Most good ideas have all been used up. It is getting very hard to be original anymore.
> 
> Even this idea has been done:


That looks kind of like your home theater Tom!!!!!!


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

BlackSapphire said:


> That looks kind of like your home theater Tom!!!!!!


No, I actually have more midbass. 60 inches to be exact.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

12v Electronics said:


> No, I actually have more midbass. 60 inches to be exact.


Braggart.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

ok - some more progress!

symbilink cables, phone wire for drc-sl, remote amp turn on lead, and xm antenna all bundled together for the run from the dash to the trunk. i'm not competing or anything and was not interested in tech flexing everything and strapping it to the body every 6 inches, so it is a pretty basic zip tied bundle.










for speaker wire i simply tapped into the oem speaker runs at the oem amp in the trunk. the oem speaker wire is twisted pair and sufficient for my needs. the wires were simply extended with stinger 16g speaker wire.










three runs of 4g power wire comes from the battery, also in the trunk.










for the grounding, i used a chassis point in the trunk. sanded this down to bare metal and securely attached the grounds to a 5/16 bolt, and the wire securely to the chassis via the access holes. this is right behind where the amps are located and is a short ground run.










first layer of the amp rack.










and completed.



















they are all running, however i had to set up each amp individually. when the network connections are plugged in so that all of the amps are connected to each other the computer doesn't recognize that there are any amps connected and goes into demo mode. i will have to figure that out.

the denford is also installed and looks pretty nice imo. the amber matches the bmw's amber perfectly.



















the l3s and l1s still aren't installed, so i have the amps playing the oem mids and tweeters along with the l8s and sub. here is how i set the crossovers for now.

sub - 70hz @ 24db
l8s - 60hz @ 24db to 700hz @ 12db
oem mids - 700hz @ 24db to 8khz @ 24 db
oem tweeters - 8khz @ 24 db


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## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

very nice benny!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

hey, thanks! 

i should note that my little bro david was an enormous help with all of this latest progress. we have had some serious scorchers here lately and despite the sweat he has been very loyal help. we will be putting a hybrid audio + zapco + jl system in his e46 bmw next.  it had just better not sound better than mine!!!


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

Benny, how far back does the amp rack go? I a assuming about 14 inches total? Thanx. I am in the process of trying to get my stuff installed!!!


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## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

BTW i LOVE THAT KNOB

that is the 'rare' black paint with leather 5 speed right? Only used for one year or two and only on certain trim levels...
Lemme know if it ever gets swapped for a zhp or other knob. I'll buy it off you for sure.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Yea! Progress! Looking good Ben.


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## backotruck (Jul 18, 2008)

the l3s and l1s still aren't installed, so i have the amps playing the oem mids and tweeters along with the l8s and sub. here is how i set the crossovers for now.

sub - 70hz @ 24db
l8s - 60hz @ 24db to 700hz @ 12db
oem mids - 700hz @ 24db to 8khz @ 24 db
oem tweeters - 8khz @ 24 db[/QUOTE]

OK, I'm a fresh one, so go easy. Here's a tarded question: HAT doesn't yet have crossovers for the l series, so what are you using for a crossover. I emailed Scott a month ago, and he offered his help on building my own...is that what you did?

Thanks, 
Nick


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

backotruck said:


> the l3s and l1s still aren't installed, so i have the amps playing the oem mids and tweeters along with the l8s and sub. here is how i set the crossovers for now.
> 
> sub - 70hz @ 24db
> l8s - 60hz @ 24db to 700hz @ 12db
> ...


He goin' active brotha... the DC's have all the processing power you'll ever need! To bad I had to sell mine 

And nice job Benny... its funny that's how I wanted my setup to look... minus the 3rd amp in the background.


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

ooops!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

backotruck - blueac is correct in that i am running everything active via the processing built into the amps.

i have a local friend who is running the legatia 6 + legatia 1 pro combo and he built a passive crossover network per scott's design.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

slvrtsunami said:


> Benny, how far back does the amp rack go? I a assuming about 14 inches total? Thanx. I am in the process of trying to get my stuff installed!!!


no idea - i didn't measure. you're probably about right. you can see how close it is to the strap points on the floor to get an idea.



Attack eagle said:


> BTW i LOVE THAT KNOB
> 
> that is the 'rare' black paint with leather 5 speed right? Only used for one year or two and only on certain trim levels...
> Lemme know if it ever gets swapped for a zhp or other knob. I'll buy it off you for sure.


lol - i had no idea the knob was rare.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

benny z said:


> no idea - i didn't measure. you're probably about right. you can see how close it is to the strap points on the floor to get an idea.


Good luck with getting to your spare.  Try it and see.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

BlackSapphire said:


> Good luck with getting to your spare.  Try it and see.


i carry no spare. 

have roadside - will use!


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

benny z said:


> i carry no spare.
> 
> have roadside - will use!


lazy bum.. 
RFTs & BMW assist ftw


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

ianbiz said:


> lazy bum..
> RFTs & BMW assist ftw


RFTs FTL ian!!


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

BlackSapphire said:


> RFTs FTL ian!!


I actually like them :shifty But I will agree that they aren't worth the price tag.


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## fish_ink (Jul 4, 2008)

lookin good!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

one pillar is done - hoping to pick up the driver's side monday.

woot!



















the texture and color is a damn close match to the lower part of the dash.



















yes, my pass side mirror is (still) cracked. and yes, i have the door cards off again.

l1 tweeters are also installed. nothing special to see, as they are tucked behind the oem sail panel locations right next to the l3s. i just used back strap and hot glue to secure those into position (same plane as mids).


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

ok, so if I ever change my setup, I am going to come to Illinois for Benny to do the work...me like!


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

BlackSapphire said:


> Good luck with getting to your spare.  Try it and see.


I dont have spare either. Just a flat repair kit that expired in '03!!!!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

you can have toby at mobile audio here in bloomington do it for you. he's who did these. 

i know my limitations and he's a good friend. could not be happier with how these turned out.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

You should have covered them in Dynamat. Then they would have matched your door panels


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

very funny.



do you think i should stuff some pillow stuffing in them?


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

that pillar looks awesome, Benny.
Two sugestions.
Chamfer the back of the L3's mounting ring.
Add some deadener, modeling clay or anything else to add weight and lower the resonance frequency of the pillar.
Also great location for the L1.
You should have a very wide stage.

Jorge


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

thanks jorge... i wondered if i should deaden them. i was afraid of taking up more air space, but makes sense with the fs. the baffle that the l3 is on is very thin, the picture is a little deceiving from the angle, but the openings on the back of the speaker are very open. i had read the threads about chamfering the baffles for these, but after looking at them and talking to my installer about it we figured they were plenty open. i'll try it this way for a bit and if i feel it isn't sounding right i'll go back and chunk it out.

cannot wait to get the other one in and dial things up. 

so far it sounds good, but hard to judge w/ just one running.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

benny z said:


> very funny.
> 
> 
> 
> do you think i should stuff some pillow stuffing in them?


 
Hmm, that's an idea!!


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

benny z said:


> do you think i should stuff some pillow stuffing in them?


Hybrid speakers are smart speakers. They cannot be fooled into thinking the enclosure is larger than it is. 

Seriously, I don't think it would help. I tried this with a pair of L4's and it didn't help at all. In fact it made it sound worse.

I agree with Doitor about the deadening. Also try to seal the pillar from any leaks around the windshield or other gaps. Let it vent below the dash. 

Those pods REALLY look good. I think they will not only sound great, but will not hurt the looks of your car either. Nice work!!


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

It turned out great Ben. Did you capture any build pics along the way?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

not sure. i had asked my installer friend to take progress pictures along the way, but i'm not sure if he did.

it was pretty simple...started with a 1/4" baffle ring the size of the speakers.



















from there he cut and glued on an outer ring made of pvc pipe so that the speaker rings were recessed down into them - this is where the grills pressure fit into.

super glued up some fabric to get the general form of the pod, resin over that, and then lots of body filler, sanding, primer, sanding, more primer, sanding, etc, until he was happy with the shape.

texture paint over the whole thing, giving it an abs plastic appearance, then the sprayed final color with an interior part specific paint.

i'll ask if he took any build pics later today. i kind of doubt it, though.


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## 2007sl (Jan 31, 2008)

very clean setup


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

Loving the pillars!


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Stellar! Epic! Stupendous!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

finally calling this install "done"!



















spent some time tuning last night. it's sounding really good. still some room to improve according to the rta...ran out of laptop battery and wasn't home, so i had to be done. will be more prepared next time.

very very very happy!


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

COOL!!! congrats, hope it will provide with a long time of music enjoyment. That is until we get the bug to change things.........again.


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## herrubermensch (Jan 23, 2009)

Beautiful e39 install. Someone ought to mass-market those pillars for the mids!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

herrubermensch said:


> Someone ought to mass-market those pillars for the mids!


agreed!

in fact i have gotten several pm's/emails about them requesting duplicates.


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## herrubermensch (Jan 23, 2009)

benny z said:


> agreed!
> 
> in fact i have gotten several pm's/emails about them requesting duplicates.


Indeed! I am one of them! Please let me know where I can have this done. I am doing an E39 install with L6s, L3s and L1Pros and need to put the L3s in the APillars. Thanks.


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## roysav (May 21, 2008)

a truly awesome build congrats duly given


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Awesome build, which has taken a fair while, but the good ones ussually do! Nice work!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

just an update - this car no longer exists. 

here's all that's left.










stay tuned for new build in a new car.

RIP


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Accident? Sale?  :surprised:


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

totaled it.

now driving a cherry '05 e46. still trying to decide how i want to go about the new build.


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## Problemhouston (Apr 2, 2009)

benny z said:


> totaled it.
> 
> now driving a cherry '05 e46. still trying to decide how i want to go about the new build.


IB IB IB. The trunk in my E46 was dang near air tight from the factory.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yep, that much i know for sure. i have no folding seats, so i have the metal firewall behind the seats which is perfect for ib through the ski pass.

tentatively planning clarus or legatis 6 mids plus l1 pro se tweeters. i want to keep the interior as stock looking as possible in this car simply because it is so cherry. i know i can make clarus 6 woofers fit under the door cards...legatia 6 will be a stretch. we'll see.

i am going to miss my legatia 8s and 3s, no doubt.


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## herrubermensch (Jan 23, 2009)

Benny, are you willing to sell your door pods and/or amp racks? I already have, as you well know, the A-pillar pods, but would LOVE to use your door pods and install some L8s! Please let me know!

--Peter


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

benny z said:


> totaled it.
> 
> now driving a cherry '05 e46. still trying to decide how i want to go about the new build.


Didn't you learn from this?

YouTube - BZ and Rogan


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

lol - yes...!

sorry - i've already got a buyer lined up for the legatia 831 set, door baffles, and pillars as a package.

the door cards would still be available, but iirc your car has black interior...right?


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

benny z said:


> totaled it.
> 
> now driving a cherry '05 e46. still trying to decide how i want to go about the new build.


Stay tuned...

You will be provided with ample inspiration for your E46 install in a little over a week.


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## herrubermensch (Jan 23, 2009)

benny z said:


> lol - yes...!
> 
> sorry - i've already got a buyer lined up for the legatia 831 set, door baffles, and pillars as a package.
> 
> the door cards would still be available, but iirc your car has black interior...right?


Ahhh. Well I would be willing to bid on the whole package just to get the baffles, so let me know if the sale falls through or if you are willing to entertain higher and better offers! Door cards I have (I copied yours!). Thanks.

--Peter


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## herrubermensch (Jan 23, 2009)

benny z said:


> lol - yes...!
> 
> sorry - i've already got a buyer lined up for the legatia 831 set, door baffles, and pillars as a package.
> 
> the door cards would still be available, but iirc your car has black interior...right?


What about the amp racks/trunk cards? Do you still have those?

--Peter


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yep! i still have everything pictured in my possession at this point.

i'll pm you...


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

best to you with new install...


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