# Wanted-BIG,BAD AND RED(orion HCCA)



## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi Guys
I was wondering what the best Orion amp would be for my Orion HCCA 15.2?
I had a HCCA 2100 coming but it is not now.I like my BIG RED Orions but not sure if the 2250(beast) came in red?Its preferred but hey!
Anyone have one in MINT shape ,I am looking.
I am also wondering any experience with the current 2500.1 amp(OK-not bad-stay away???).I am not up to par on the entire Orion history but correct me if I am wrong
-HCCA 2100....GOOD
-NT 200..........BETTER
-EXT 250(BEAST).....STILL BETTER
-HCCA 2100GS...BEST

I would love to be better informed guys
thanks john

PS-If you have a big bad ass to move..let me know please


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

The Orions you're talking about are not optimal for the sub you have. I used the word optimal because although you can certainly push it with one of these, the HCCA 2100 will be operating at 1 ohm. At that load, (even though they're rated for it) they turn into nuclear reactors. Hot as fish grease. The SX and XTR 2250 for all intents and purposes do the same thing as the HCCA, but it does it at 2 ohms. Meaning it runs cooler. The 2250 does not like to be run below 2 ohms. So your 15.2 would be putting a 4 ohm signal to it. And isn't that a 2 to 4k subwoofer? I can't remember.

There are people who talk about coaxing upwards of 2k from each of these amplifiers. And with the appropriate voltage, fusing, and wire upgrades, I'm sure they can. But for how long and at what cost to your amplifier? Are you willing to continue spending money replacing amps they don't make any more? Because they won't last long when you're running them at full tilt which is pretty close to what that sub is going to require.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem spending money on Orion equipment. My wife might, but I don't. And I'm not trying to steer you in a direction you don't want to go. I just want you to think about the fact that your subwoofer has some pretty high power requirements, from what I remember. The amps you're asking about have the ability to push it. But some of them are coming up on 20 years, so how far are you willing to push them?

The NT 200 is one of the most beautiful looking and sounding dual mono blocks ever made (imo). Turning it into an spl amp would be blasphemous.

The 2500.1 is the amp best suited to your needs. Too bad I hate DEI.

I could probably drone on, but I'm pretty tired.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

OP, StockA4 is giving you good advice. The new 2500.1 HCCA, while not a true High Current amplifier is a good, solid amp and will beat the crap out of your HCCA 15.2 sub. I hate to recommend anything made by DEI but, it appears they have finally realized that building crappy products and simply putting an old school brand name on it won't fool too many people anymore. I've looked at that 15.2 sub and it is a brute. The new Extreme (black) series amps are made very well too. 
You'll definately need an electrical system that can handle the 2500.1 amperage draw. Do some research and plan accordingly. Good luck.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Hey thanks guys
I will be running my Big Reds at a 2 ohm load(I hear what your saying about nuclear) and the sub has the 1or4 or a stereo 2 ohm option(correct???).
I was a late80' early90's car audio buff and PPI,Orion,RF and alpine dominated.PG was just starting to kick ass with the nail in the fuse holder demostration.BUT I loved the big Orions.
I just picked up a Phoenix Gold Tipowercore 15fa(NIB) for a good price and will be looking into a new alternator(but that seems to be another adventure).
I will take any advise thanks.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Ya, when you start running anywhere over the neighborhood of 1kw you'll need to beef up the system. What vehicle are you using?

And it looks like you're wanting to run two 2100's into your 15.2? It would certainly look cool. But you have to set each amp identically (with a DMM). That's all I know about that, so I won't recommend it. I also know if you don't have everything exact you'll just end up tearing your subwoofer apart. Ok, but since I really don't know for a fact what I'm talking about, I'll go on to a different point. Maybe someone who has experience strapping amps that weren't initially intended to be strapped can help us out.

Now the question is going back to power. How much power are those HCCA's going to supply at two ohms? 800 apiece I think. As long as you keep your voltage up, you can get real close to your 2kw rms. 

Voltage: The biggest killer of these amplifiers (besides idiots) is low voltage. You absolutely have to keep your voltage up. Orion put out a bunch of accessories to assist in this. I'm not looking at my manuals but I'm pretty sure they don't like anything under 5 volts rms. After that it's time to take into account that you are now running a pair of amps that pull up to 240 amps together. Plus I'm sure you have some mids and tweets in there, so let's say your system is pulling roughly 300 amperes of current. You will need at least a 220 amp alternator and a few batteries. I say 220 amp because not everyone can afford a 3 or 400 amp alternator. And whatever you lack in alternator, you make up for in batteries. (I guess it all everages itself out in the end).

I hope this helps. Though I'm not sure how it would


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## Pimpy101 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mclsound... you messages me earlier today on eBay about my hcca 425. If you wanna bid on it and win it I'll only charge you the extra $25 to ship out of the states. I just gave you the buy it now price earlier because you have a zero rating on eBay. It ends in an hr and a half though just FYI.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

I was looking at the 2500.1 for sub.
It is a 2011 Malibu with the 4cyl Ecotek,so I will do some research.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Actually, I wouldn't feel comfortable allowing voltage to drop below 11 volts for very long. It wasn't as big a problem on later HCCA's as it was on the 1st generation. But, voltage drops on any system are not a good thing and are especially bad on high current Orions. Overkill is a good word to learn if you plan on using high current amps. That reason alone is enough to go the class D route (new Orion 2500.1).


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

PPI_GUY said:


> Actually, I wouldn't feel comfortable allowing voltage to drop below 11 volts for very long. It wasn't as big a problem on later HCCA's as it was on the 1st generation. But, voltage drops on any system are not a good thing and are especially bad on high current Orions. Overkill is a good word to learn if you plan on using high current amps. That reason alone is enough to go the class D route (new Orion 2500.1).


That's sound advice. When you're running an old school class A/B setup, you've got to fortify the crap out of your electrical system. The operative words here are "high current". So it's your job to make sure your elec. system provides that.

You can spend a ton of money on a monster alternator, or you can get one for about $350. I'll p/m you the link because right now I can't remember the rules on links.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Plus, the 2500.1 is perfect for your needs. I'm on an old school kick right now, and I hate dei. And Maxxsonics. The list goes on.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Ok
Here is what I just picked up(BNIB)
-all Audio Control
1-EQL,2/EQT's,1-2XS,1-DQXS w/DDC,and a Phoenix Gold Tipowercore 15fa.
What is worth keepin and whats not...any suggestions?
I pulled out my old Alpine head unit and it is the 7915 with 2 pullot brackets..one new in box.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

In my opinion? Keep it all. The Audio Control goes with any install. The EQT has a line driver to keep the voltage up around 9 (I think) volts. The EQX has balanced inputs, and doesn't your voltage double with balanced? The DQXS makes coffee. And the Powercore is cool. I would hide it if I was doing a strictly Orion system. No offense to the PG phans out there. Just trying to keep the theme straight. 

But ya, it's all good. They each have their function. It all boils down to what looks and sounds good to you.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

If my alpine doesn't work out,I may have to look for a new head unit with pre-outs only,if they even have this anymore?I would love any advice on this one.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Just get an old Eclipse. I have a CD8051 8 volt dead head. I don't know who makes new dead heads. SQ is becoming a thing of the past. Everything is "done for you" these days.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

thanks Stock
I would have never thought of eclipse.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Well I got the Coustic XM7,Alpine 7915 and 3545 opened up and did some major cleaning.I forgot I painted my 3545 and 3554 Tremclad Barbeque RED.It is stlill holding up nice.I will have to learn how to post pics.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

What I did was:
Open myself a Photobucket account
Upload pics
Go to my uploaded pics and click on the bar that says "Direct Link"
Copy Direct Link

Come back over here
Click on the icon above that says "Insert Image"
At this point a box will open up with some writing in it. I hit backspace to get rid of it, then I paste my direct link and voila!


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

You put those pics on to make me want them and then I would have to ask you to PM me and sell them to me (especially the big red one)


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

I am looking for the big Orions by the way
HCCA-2100,425
-2250
Pretty much anything as long as it is in excellent shape.
I donnot want any beaters.I am building a HCCA system,a ""BEAST"" system and a EXT/NT system. 
I will post pics when I get my systems together.All old school.I can have it shipped to Niagra Falls NY for ease of shipping of course(my cousin is 25mins away).
Let me know what you got but the bigger the better(LOL)
I have a couple 2100's promised to me already(hopefully) but will need 5 in total for each system.
PM me if you have something 
thanks john


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Easy John. That's just a complimentary pic of a couple Orions. I'll tell you a little bit about me: Everything I do revolves around the collecting of Orions. I've gotten rid of a couple here and there, but when the price is right, I definitely keep the ones I like.

Right now I'm putting together a 1997 system. In the future, I'm going to be replicating a 1st gen system I found in a 1990 issue of CSR. I've been picking up pieces of that system here and there.

I also want to do a full HCCA 2100 system. That includes going fully active with my CDT components. I need a couple more 2100's and I'm about to consider getting rid of my bnib G4 HCCA's to do it.

Here's another pic for ya!


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

let me know


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Where are your 2100's coming from, and what gen are they? Digiref, or Competition? I have a Competition Amplifier 2100, and I'd like to keep everything the same, but I wouldn't mind picking up a couple Digiref 2100's.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

not the beat up ones on ebay...but mine are comp.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Haha! I feel you on that, buddy. I pick up odds and ends from ebay, but I have never used ebay to buy and amp that went into my personal collection. I've gotten rid of some, but I haven't bought any for myself. I have to know the buyer. And right now there's only acouple I trust.

I'm trying to get a 2250 SX from somebody right now but I got financially derailed for a minute. I'll get it though.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Well you talk to me first and I will do the same for you.I would rather talk on the phone anyday if I am seriously buying something.I have no feedback on ebay but lots on Audiogon/Canuck Audio Mart as I was out of car audio the last 12yrs(but not out of audio).
I just pulled out all my BNIB Platinum series distbution blocks,300/500amp fuses.I found a 4-pack of 50 and 60 amp glass fuses.Several gold plated battery connectors and ""T"" connectors for dual rear batteries...Its a great day(LOL)


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

I dont have any red ones but I do have a bunch of black XTREME's including 2 1200's a 1400 and a chrome 2500d.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm looking for 1st through 3rd gen these days. If anything, I'll be trading in my G4 HCCA's for older models.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Before we get derailed,UNTILL I complete my HCCA 2100 system,I am still looking and once it is complete and you are still looking and I have seen,heard or been in contact...I will send them your way.But untill then,I am still looking.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Yes sir.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Hey Stock
Great chat and thanks for understanding


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Any time, my friend.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Here's what I was referring to. Really up in the air about them.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

let me know


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## DukeDurham (Mar 1, 2012)

StockA4 said:


> What I did was:
> Open myself a Photobucket account
> Upload pics
> Go to my uploaded pics and click on the bar that says "Direct Link"
> ...



StockA4, you interested in selling your 2100 HCCA?


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

already tried but he is a stickler.He told me not even for $10,000(although he may have been holden out for a little more)


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Haha! He's almost right, Duke. As it sits I'm on the hunt for more.


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

yahhhh buddy thats the nitty gritty


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

the hcca pile is packed away no pics lol but what you know about the old pa's lol


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

puffah said:


> yahhhh buddy thats the nitty gritty


One of my dream systems. That's an impressive pic right there. I don't have any XTR's right now. I was going to buy a 2250, and 475 XTR, both were a 9.5 out of 10. But the guy backed out of the deal. (Which turned out to be a good thing since he was shady as #@&* anyways).

I don't have what a lot of these guys have here. But I'm piecing it together slowly. The fun for me still lies in that transition point between the hunt and the acquisition.

Thanks for sharing. What PA is that? Looks like two end to end. Monstrous!


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

You just pack those up and ship them my way + the HCCA


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

man I wrote a one page thing describing the system and it never posted WTF


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

thats a earthquake pa4300 they only made 500 I think. Its 2 pa2300 basically in one heat sink and a x over. Those are 0 gause ins by the way. Real world power is like 380x4 and will do about 1200x2 or so bridged. Power hungry class A/B you need like 120 amps to power it up. Bought it of a mexican kid who blew a single IC when he tried to show it worked to me. He said it wasnt as loud as his crap series xx hifonics noise. He had no idea he was barely turning it on with his charging system I got it for 250 bucks LOL idiot. I still need to send it to my amp guy and get it hot rodded out.. There is a couple gouges in the fins but Ill just get it powder coated white when I send out the board They turn up for about a G every 4 months on e bay


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

Ohhh yah if you dont know about the pa stuff it was basically what made earthquake famous. It was only made for 2 years really. This is the 2nd year production. At the time It was going head to head with the hifonics zed series vII and VIII. The amp above is basically the same as two series VII zues's Or about the same as a series VII collossis. They were a little cheaper then the hifonics and the disro channels made them easier to buy wholesale. I would put any of these old quackies up to the old zed hifonics. I had all the series 7 and 8 line up at one point of my life or another. Build quality power and sound was pretty much the same just 30 pecent cheaper. OHH the good old days


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

that will be one hot MF'n amp if it was yanking 120amps
nice score...so then packn up a couple big Orions shouldnt be a prob.(LOL)


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

my toys lol


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

There's a guy out here selling an Earthquake PHD 20,000. I'm not too familiar with Earthquake, but I think his is too new. Your PA, that's a nice amp. I've seen them come up on ebay now and then. That's just crazy power though.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if MCLSOUND has pm'd you about having too many Orions???


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

The pic is a bit fuzzy, but every one of those XTR's, and SX's look to be in pretty amazing condition. Kudos for keeping hope alive!


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

No I didn't PM him actually(unusuall)but he can PM me if he feels he has 1/2 to many 2250's!!


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## puffah (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok so my post explaining the system never turned up so I will do a quick re write. The stereo is going into a 1987 fj60. The truck is over the top. I bought it off a guy who sunk 45 thousand into it. LOL I got it for 15 K. and had to fix some stuff well worth it. The body has 120k on it and 20 on the drive train. It has a fuel injected 350 small block with a dodge nv4500 transmission. The truck is a rocket. I just pulled a interior out of a range rover and thats getting done this week. Nice new dark grey leather and power seat. Sweeeet. 

Ok so the plan is to build a SQ SPL car. I have been picking pieces up for ever and ever. 

There are dual kinetics hc 3800 under the hood and dual 350 amp alts. this is running to the back all in double 0 gauge.

I have piles and piles of morel ref gear but I wanted to try something new. I actually have piles all over. Home audio car video pa control systems on and on and on. I have owned custom audio companies since I was 14 and am 38 now. So I have been in the mix for some time. 

So front stage from the top of the pillar to the floor. Its set up as a d'appolito. Im using planner drivers for my mids and highs. So Bohlender Graebener neo 8 then a neo 3 then another neo three and a neo 8 then 2 SEAS Prestige L22RN4X/P (H1208) 8" in each door. take a look 

Planar Transducers & Tweeters allow for Ultra Low Distortion and Effortless Sound over Dome Tweeters in Hi-Fi Speaker Systems for Home A/V.

SEAS Prestige L22RN4X/P (H1208) 8" Aluminum Cone Woofer: Madisound Speaker Store

neo8
neo3 
neo3
neo8
2x seas 8"

Then there is a neo 8 in the dash as a center

so thats the front stage LOL LOL LOL DIRTY

for rears there are no tweeters just a SEAS Prestige L22RN4X/P (H1208) 8" and a neo 8 at the left and right of the sub box. may or may not run the mid bass maybe just 2 neo8's

For subs I am running 2 soundsplinter RLS-12's in about 3.5 cubs sealed. EVIL PURE EVIL
[ SoundSplinter Subwoofers - RL-s 12" Subwoofer Information ]

. Ok so here is the amp bit you guys most likely want to hear. Im lifting the back seat about 4 inches to get a little better breathing room. I am actually not going to use any of the orion 275's or 450. Even though I have a huge pile of them i cant fit what I want to run so Im changing it up. Im instead going to run 2 butler audio TDB 575 5 channels under the seat. 

Butler Audio

They do about 120 watts per channel. 10 channels

Then the subs will each get a xtr2250 bridged. I know!!!! Im running 3 ohm on a 4 ohm amp. Risk Im taking. But the amps are also modded out and have been re built. So each sub should see about 1500 1600watts. I also have 2 lightning audio 50 farad caps. If i have the room each sub amp will have its own 50 farad cap on it. These are not cheap caps. They work and really are 50 farad. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIGHTNING-A...723?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5dd38f33

The third xtr2250 will run the front midbass. 

Then for processing and eq I have not desided. Either a audson bit one, a jbl MS8. or a minidsp 2x8. I like the idea of the JBL but I am afraid I might not like the time alignment on it. I guess build it and order one. If I dont like it send it back. The bit one is cool but I dont know if I want to spend that much time on tuning. The minidsp is by far the cheapest and even if I just use it for the x over curves Id be happy with it. I dont plan on using any of this to process the subwoofers. Instead I will be running a ZED RA mounted in the little dash pocket. I also for some reason want to mount my sony 744 digital eq in the dash just above it. Yah I know Im old school. I like being able to adjust things on the fly and fast. I ****ING hate digging through menus to adjust subs and gains or just bring down the mid a little. Its the same for me and push button gains. I really wonder how many times somebody has blow things because they can not turn them down fast enough without a knob.

RA

Head unit I have not figured out yet. But something with blue tooth. Im really hoping they make the mini I pad so I can mount it in my dash. If not I got a couple ideas on a ipad dock Im still working on

So try and knock a hole in it if you can. But this system will crush. PERIOD


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Wow,those subs are a crazy 80db sensitivity,even the midbass are only 86db and unless you have them side by side in what looks to be a full cubic foot each.I know the 2250 can tame them but the 2 on the subs should be sold to me and we should set you up with a couple HCCA 2500.1's or something.
Those planers are interesting,what kind of material are they?Like a metal ribbon...will they be a soft sound or a metallic sound?I have never listened to ribbons before.Well actually once in 1993 in a highend stereo shop in Ohio,they were the $12,000(back then)baby Grand Infinity's(the GRANDS were the $30,000 ones)and were had the first debut CD of Firehouse cranked on them.I didn't much care for them as they were more designed for classical and Firehouse is big hair rock.
Have you ever looked at Volt speakers.They are British and 89db with 2 in a single foot cubed.They are sold at Solen in Montreal and I know them well.Not trying to sell but I use the in my center channel and they see some awful crazy SPL's at times.They are used in alot of high powered Studios from several large name speaker companies like PMC,Genelec,Quested,Rel,etc.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

I know a guy who ran his JL 13w7 at 3 ohms to his 2250 XTR without a hitch. He kept it there for a long time too. So I don't see where that would be too much of a problem. But of course, I'm far from an expert on such things.

I have a question maybe one of you guys can answer though; I have a set of four Black Knight 8" midrange. I can't seem to find any info on them. I know they're home speakers, but I think I can use them in the car for sq purposes. Either of you had any experience with these?


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

Yea,I remember them.G&S Designs.Good luck with info unless some of the boys have some.


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## StockA4 (Aug 26, 2011)

I'll have to put the question out publicly then.


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## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

a shot of some bad caps on a recent 2100 purchase...looks like a full overhaul


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## money mike (Aug 5, 2015)

I have a orion hcca 2500.1 for sale make me a offer


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