# Lowest crossover points?



## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

I currently have CD1pro minihorns, anyone know the lowest xover point recommended? 

Also if I switched to full bodies, how much lower could I go? 

And full bodies with what other drivers will allow me to go lower?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

CD1PRO MH are good to 800hz at low power with steep slope. I prefer to keep them above 1khz though and recommend 1200 hz.

The full size horn loads really well to 600Hz and is acceptable to 500 Hz. The original CD2 would handle 500 crossed over with a steep slopes at moderate volume levels. 


Eric


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Wow I have been keeping them way too high.


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

If I switched to full bodies, how much power could I give them safely down to 600hz?


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

are they the new cd1pro or the old ones?


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Umm Idk? Lol


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

Hi Guys!

Don´t want to start another Thread. 
I have the CD Ultras in Mini Horns, how low can i go with the xover for best result?
My Amp is a Steg K2.02, so round about 80Watts at 8Ohm (i know, a little bit oversized ^^)


Regards


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Don´t want to start another Thread.
> I have the CD Ultras in Mini Horns, how low can i go with the xover for best result?
> ...


No lower than 800Hz @ 24dB/oct 
Would run better @ 1kHz. 

Kelvin


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

cajunner said:


> did you notice where he says the full size with CD2 motors go down to 500 hz?
> 
> the small diaphragm of the CD1Pro is not going to be able to do the same as the CD2, you're talking about two different animals pushing the same cart...
> 
> ...


Thank you.

Any recommendations (if any) on any drivers in a full body horn that could run to 500-600 with a good chunk of power?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

the727kid said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Any recommendations (if any) on any drivers in a full body horn that could run to 500-600 with a good chunk of power?


Which mids do you use? Just asking coz you won't be sending more than 10rms to your horns before it overpowers your mids... 

Kelvin


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Also, it all depends on the cars interior... It's no use to drop your Xover point down low if it doesn't work for you... 
My girlfriend's BMW has a Xover point of 1.6kHz @ 18dB/oct. Tried 1.25kHz, 1kHz, 800Hz but it didn't work for me. 

Horn is a full body CD1e v.3

Kelvin


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Right now Sundown NeoPro8s, I want my mids to play lower though. 80hz @24dB is about their limit.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

the727kid said:


> If I switched to full bodies, how much power could I give them safely down to 600hz?


CD1Pro is best above 800 Hz @24dB/oct on the full size horns. They get edgy and forward if crossed over lower than that


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

the727kid said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Any recommendations (if any) on any drivers in a full body horn that could run to 500-600 with a good chunk of power?



Look for a 1" throat driver with a 2" diaphragm that has a stated response to around 400 Hz.

I am thinking chunk of power as in a real world 50 watts. Remember to be able to have balanced sound with something like that you will need 800 watts to each channel on the midbass side of things.

Eric


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Eric Stevens said:


> Look for a 1" throat driver with a 2" diaphragm that has a stated response to around 400 Hz.
> 
> I am thinking chunk of power as in a real world 50 watts. Remember to be able to have balanced sound with something like that you will need 800 watts to each channel on the midbass side of things.
> 
> Eric


Daily usage would be very low powered, but when football season kicks in I use my horns just to get stupid loud for tailgating. I can get around 250watts per mid right now, if I have to I have a 850.4 laying around to give them over 400 per side.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

If used for tailgating you no longer care about imaging and staging so raise the crossover as necessary and let 'er rip.

I would suggest a CD2 or Cd Ultra driver though to be able to cross at 600 Hz low power though.

With my old Sable for demo tailgating style I would bring the sub to midbass xover up to about 110Hz and the midbass to horns up to the 1200 Hz range and you could hear my car over the RF Suburubans with 6 15's . Tha was using my favorite amp set up, 5 of the same 2 channel amp with 4 bridged mono for subs and midbass and the last one in stereo at 8 ohms on the horns. The sable had 5 Zapco Z600's.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

that was a nice car


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Stupid MS-8 won't let you save alternate crossover settings lol, only takes 5 minutes to change though. 

Sounds like a sick car, what did you run for mids if I don't mind asking? 

I'm stuck right now on if I want to switch to full bodies because I need to find a powerful mid that can play strong into the 60-70 range but still keep up with the horns.

On a side note, I dropped them down from 1500 to 1000 and I am much happier.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

the727kid said:


> Stupid MS-8 won't let you save alternate crossover settings lol, only takes 5 minutes to change though.
> 
> Sounds like a sick car, what did you run for mids if I don't mind asking?
> 
> ...


Plenty of mids for horns application... Just need to search around the forum. 

Kelvin


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

the727kid said:


> Sounds like a sick car, what did you run for mids if I don't mind asking?
> 
> I'm stuck right now on if I want to switch to full bodies because I need to find a powerful mid that can play strong into the 60-70 range but still keep up with the horns.


I had IDQ8's which were good for full tilt boogie for 45 minutes, at 46 minutes both were dead and in need of replacement if I didnt back off the volume level. 

If its strong at 60Hz at very high levels it will be too inefficient and have too much inductance to keep with and mate to horns. Better off with a good subwoofer that plays well to above 100 Hz.

Eric


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

I know my subs play no problem that high. Just when its lower the subs blend so much better and you can't really localize them.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

the727kid said:


> I know my subs play no problem that high. Just when its lower the subs blend so much better and you can't really localize them.


That is one of the changes you make when switching to tailgate mode. Go from 70 Hz to 100 or 110 Hz for tailgating.

For 70 Hz crossover point you can get an 8" with about 92 to 94 dB 1w1m that will do well to 70 Hz. Just look for at least 3.5 to 4mm of VC overhang or XMAX in the 4mm or higher range with an Fo in the 60 Hz range. Just look at the FR and make sure it doesnt have any nasty peaks for at least an octave above the intended freq range.

Eric


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

the727kid said:


> I currently have CD1pro minihorns, anyone know the lowest xover point recommended?
> 
> Also if I switched to full bodies, how much lower could I go?
> 
> And full bodies with what other drivers will allow me to go lower?


Horns suffer from poor impulse response when they're too small. And car audio horns are dramatically undersized. Therefore, car audio horns tend to sound unpleasant when you use a crossover point that's uneccessarily low.

This type of distortion isn't easy to quantify because it's somewhat unique to horns. In other words, it's not like harmonic distortion, which is easy to spot. Problems with the impulse response sound obnoxious and they're a challenge to 'tune.'

Even worse, *this type of distortion exists at high and low volume levels.*

To make a long story short, use a high xover with horns if you can.

Also, this distortion is the reason that I never finished my under-dash Unity horns. I was able to get the horn to play down to 250hz, but the problems with the impulse response were insurmountable. *The only solution is to use a larger horn.*

If you want to read more on this, set aside a few hours and read this thread front-to-back:

Horn Honk $$ WANTED $$ - Page 28 - diyAudio


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