# PPI Powerclass vs Soundstream Reference



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Seems like more people have used the Art series but not as many talk about the Power Class. 

I was wondering how they compare to the Soundstream reference amps. 

I have a ppi pc coming but don't have a reference amp to do a side bu side. But I had found a couple of refs that are fixable. 

I have a white limited edition pc4400 on its way and I am considering a matching pc2600


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Where you at folks? I am about to pull trigger on that 2nd LE.


----------



## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

there is not as much for the pc series of amps as there should be, i ran a pc 4800 for a few years in my mazda milenium (car had a huge trunk) on 2 jl 10w6, it was outstanding, i had a second pc series 4 chan on the rest of the car and it also was better then i expected in both power and clairty. the 4800 is a beast and you need to have a car with enough space to mount and cool. imho the only reason i can guess people are not as into the pc series is they came out just before ppi started to assemble lower end amps in korea, and then they where bought out by dei...but to me the pc series where the end of the line for ppi old school greatness, possibly some of the most advanced amps they designed and built. i also know that from the install side the shop i worked for hardly had any of the pc series come back for service, except when customers (or installers) would shove the power plug in backwards.. but i am not an expert, just a user and abuser.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I hate the plugs. That is why I love soundstream terminals so much. 

I also think the PCX was a bit ugly. Specs were not


----------



## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

in an old work truck i had a rubicon 102 (still have it too) powering a set of a/d/s plates..i think the best connections on amps of that era are the later audio arts, you could easily run any size of speaker or power wire, just needed the right size of blade terminals..


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

marvnmars said:


> in an old work truck i had a rubicon 102 (still have it too) powering a set of a/d/s plates..i think the best connections on amps of that era are the later audio arts, you could easily run any size of speaker or power wire, just needed the right size of blade terminals..


I must say I love the clean no bare wire look of the SS amps. 

I can do without all them terminals and such.


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey guys long time no talk I just stuck my head back here after being gone for a while, my other hobby of vintage lighting along with housework kind of got me sidetracked LoL! Ok I'm a traitor to old school audio sometimes! I sometimes try to stay off audio forums for a bit so I'm not tempted to buy anything. Anyyyways hope all is well, I've got some serious catching up to do here, this will be fun reading the posts over the past two or three months that I haven't been here! So the Powerclass line particularly the graphite 1st gen of them 1997/1998 run is my favorite, I got into car audio around 1996 and discovered precision power just after the art series left right before I got my drivers license and the PowerClass had just debuted. This reminds me, I would kill for a 1997 to 1998 precision power brochure LoL. I used to reminiscne and carry one in my backpack to school each day!during that production run came the chrome limited edition ones with plexi bottoms… I saw the collection of MACS wholly sh*t  Then came second run, chrome models rebadged with the full RMS power rating, same board. Then came the .2 version, same with the gray sparkle paint job with sparkles and graphics similar to the chrome. It is my understanding that all 3 of those were the exact same board. When I saw the next line PCX I knew things were going downhill. If they too were same board Americans I apologize, What it was at that time that I have become a big MMATS fan lol. So Soundstream reference amp in comparison... (Disclaimer this is only my personal opinion, i'm not a pro nor have i had the perfect setup to extract the best quality out of each amp, I love Soundstream and many brands., i ran reference 200,300,500, class a3.0, and class a 6.0, I ran PC225,PC250,PC275,PC2100,PC2150,PC4100 (BEAST...front half to OZ Audio superman highs and ass end bridged mono to JL Subs for a 144.3 on audio control!!!) and honestly I like the full power availability of the precision power at 4 ohms… Very high signal-noise ratio.02%THD Very controlling,clean crisp, I felt they had more control than the references. Pretty bold of me as I know the class a 3.0 got a perfect IASCA SQ score lol. However don't try to ohm them down… When I would take them down to 3 ohms mono they would chug along but sound sloppier and run hot. 2 ohms depending on what mood they were in they'd stay out of protect until they eventually thermalled. That's with as stiff of voltage and current and forced air cooling (not just the PC2150,2350,4100's built in but squirrel cage fan too). I would def grab both of those LEW amps! You don't hear much about those… I was actually going to bring up a post bout those. Woofers etc. had a few brand-new in box ones until 2007 but i never had the money dammit LoL. DEF DEF get them just keep at 4 ohm mono 2 ohm stereo range, they will serve you well I promise. And they are white dipped limited editions of the Chrome lineup, please take pics for me! I'm jealous!


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

well I just paid for the 2600LE so when it arrives next week I am sure then I will take a shot of them..6 channels of LE PPI in white.


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

That's awesome bro! I feel like I didn't give Soundstream refs and rubis credit although i own more of them then Powerclass amps lol! The terminals on streams are unmatched have to say that and they are top notch with sound q I'd have to be an idiot to argue that. I love how much snap and clear raw power the ppi's make straight up at 4 ohms and have lots of balls and cotrol. I love how a reference will chug down any ohm load you can throw at it and keep going like a high torque diesel engine


----------



## NonSenCe (Jun 4, 2011)

oh yeah. there are still Two Amps I still wish I would have. 

my PPI pc450. Bought it from my trip to usa in 98 or so, and it was stolen few years later. The guys got caught and jailtime but PPI and the Infinity beta15 they stole was never recovered, I also want the beta back.. and its been what, 11-12years.  

maybe it is just that they were infact stolen from me that makes me wish I still had them. But they were awesome in my mind. (I switched to Audison LR series and Soundstream Exact12, and while they were nice, they werent equal in my mind.)

and my friends SoundStream Ref 405. I actually had it in loan for 2 winter months as he used it only in his summer car first years, he never sold it to me, I asked several times.

Come winter I got him a case of beer as "payment", and swapped my 2 bigger amplifiers and Cervin-Vega ai12 away from my car for his ref405 (and used my old cheap 10" mtx as subwoofer for winter).

I actually bought one SS Reference on online auction site few years ago.. sadly it was bogus, it had the casing of SS but innards were cheap no name junk. (glad I opened it up to check it out and clean it). So I took a roadtrip of 100miles, and returned it to seller in person. So I got my money back rightaway.


----------



## EriCCirE (Apr 14, 2010)

I have two PC450s that im going to use for my three way active setup. I have the PC2350 for my sub stage. 

There are two sized spacers out there for the PC amps. I have the 6 inch one (pretty sure shes 6) I would be very happy to trade someone who has the 3 inch spacer, as then my two PC450s would be nearly the same length as the 2350


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

That's a shame they were stolen from you, and that's really rotten they put another amps guts in a reference shell, how lame and sad. That's like when I bought an art amp in 2000 and it came wrapped in duct tape and that's it... The spacers neat! I didn't know they came in two sizes, I have no spacers however I hope you get the 3" ones as that'd look wonderful next to a PC2350!


----------



## EriCCirE (Apr 14, 2010)

Well, according to This I must have the 5in spacer. 

Theres a guy on ebay with 2 of the 3in spacers, but he wants 150


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I got my PC4400 LE . it is suprisingly clean considering yet another asshat packing job by the seller.

2 in a row now ebay sellers that want to get negs over stupid shipping


----------



## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

good looking amp, enjoy


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I will find out today how she sounds


----------



## alm001 (Feb 13, 2010)

I loved my pc amps. I bought a pc1400.2 brand new, got a pc4400 chrome from a friend in college... then I had a couple pc2600's, and a couple pc1800's. (The 1800's had power supply problems, and after fixing BOTH of them twice, I moved to JL for the xovers)


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

So far I think its a upgrade over the GH amps I have had in the car. I am only running front channels off the pc400 and its not quite as strong but its crystal clear and some of the music has more details than before . 

I am going to bridge this puppy for sure and then it should be great.


----------



## Shinju (Jul 11, 2008)

The PC class amplifiers are an upgrade build to the Art class amplifiers. They support lower impedances and are a little more stable.

I think you are going to enjoy them. I am sure the Art series guys will come in here and argue but it is true. I have worked on various art series amplifiers and very very few PC class amplifiers.

Dont get me wrong as we talked about via pm on caraudio.com I love Art series stuff but this is a case of were the next level of PPI amps were an upgrade internally.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Via some sort of miracle I got the 2600 this afternoon

From Minnesota to Louisiana in like 3 day or less postal. 

I can't explain it but its in my hands. 

Pics tonight or tomorrow. Install tomorrow. Or tonight.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

ok got them both installed. lots of odd settings for the pc2600. I for a while couldnt get any sound out of the 4400 after I bridged it until I checked my rca cables after I thought about it. I must have not hooked up the rear channel rca at the head unit cause when I bridged the amp I got no sound out of rear ...so I just pushed the combo button which uses front rca for both and works fine.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

when using a 4 channel powerclass does it matter sound wise if you actually use front and rear intputs or just the front and use the combo switch? 

I normally dont do that but I didnt feel like taking head unit out to make sure my rear rca was disconnected. but I do wonder if it makes any difference in sound output. I want true stereo output.


----------



## EriCCirE (Apr 14, 2010)

couldnt you just measure the rca's with a multimeter to see if the rears are getting signal? seems easier than taking apart the dash


----------



## EriCCirE (Apr 14, 2010)

or just try having the rear rcas hooked up, with and without the combine button


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I am pretty sure last time I removed the deck I didnt hook up rear rca cause I was just running front. 99% sure.

its not that hard to get to it. I will try to today.


----------



## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

jax, a set of rca Y adapters can also do it fot you.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Lol yeah but just in case I want to run my 8's in rear or something I need to have it 100%. 

It's not that hard really


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

My rear RCA was not hooked up but after hooking it up it does not work still so I need a new RCA cable. 

I hate the ones I have anyhow. I wanted new ones


----------



## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

while you have the hu out, did you try the rca's on different hu outputs, just to make sure it is not the amp. i learned from doing cabeling, it can be the equipment, not often, but it is darn easy to run a set from the hu tot he amp while the hu is out just on top of everything. heck, even borrowing a set from your home equipment will work. i know if you pull up your carpet and re run new rca and it still doesn't work, you might be a little pissed.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I know its not the inputs on the amp. when I swapped them at the amp the front and rear flipp flopped like they should. 

right now I have other issues...head unit has started acting up.


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey they are beautiful man! I hope you get the issues resolved. Bad RCA cables… I have a story for this one and i'll make it short. Back around 1998 I made a 40 min trip to my fav stereo shop for Rockford RCA cables...and do to my OCD I took the 3rd 20 foot RCA cable package in line behind the first one on the rack because I figured more people would've looked at the first one is the package was a little bit bruised up. I drive all the way home, remove my deck, pull up the carpet and trim panels and run the cable. I connected and put everything back together and only have sound in the left channel!!!! Karma! I had to take everything back and drive back 45 minutes and the guy kindly exchanged it when I showed him with a multi meter that there is no continuity in the center pin of the right side. LOL! And I conscientiously took the first one off the wall, the second one off the wall and stopped at and kept the third… Ever since that day I grab whatever thing is first as long as it looks fine lmao! Somebody in the sky was playing a trick on me that day!


----------



## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Sounds like me lol. I never grab the first item on the rack, always the one behind it.

As far as these amps go, I've never owned a Soundstream product so I can't compare. However, I traded an old Legacy LA for a PC450 and I love it. I had to do some custom work to it so its usable but now it's good to go. I have it running my front doors and my kick panels and it gets plenty loud. Very clean power, and it never runs hot.

Hate the dumb ass plugs though... I'm afraid to post a pic of my PC450 or my Orion CS150.2 because the "custom" work I had to do to make them usable may be considered very offensive material.


----------



## MikeT1982 (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes, those plugs are a pain I agree, especially making sure that the four gauge power strands plug in without any frays that could short… I always have to wrap things in electrical tape and even then you can still see the copper half the time especially if the wire comes out and down to an amp rack or something where it has strain on it. I think the plugs of the next model year up, the chrome ones have a recessed plug design to better improve design that will eat up the insulation 1/2" or so like a Soundstream. I never did buy those though but I think they would make a nice addition to the gunmetal amps. Custom modifications? That would be neat to see what you did! It couldn't be as bad as what happened to a guy at the shop I remember… the poor guys unknowingly took the back off a PC2350 to showcase the board on display like the limited-edition amps and just put a plexiglass window on it… Guess what happned? Most here already are laughing and know. All those metal fingers on the bottom cover that squish the transistors nice and tight to the heat sink...not there anymore. Effectively letting all of the transistors floating in midair pretty much other than the little bit of electrolytic grease underneath them… There may as well at the no heatsink. I think they got a couple seconds of sound before the smoke and flames came! LoL man oh man. Expensive mistake!!!
Of course I was just mentioning that because it was a funny mistake modification, yours are good and functional to make the amp work as you said. I have gotten clever with quite a few mods myself! Soldering wires to the boards and such when necessary, adding fans etc


----------



## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

MikeT1982 said:


> Yes, those plugs are a pain I agree, especially making sure that the four gauge power strands plug in without any frays that could short… I always have to wrap things in electrical tape and even then you can still see the copper half the time especially if the wire comes out and down to an amp rack or something where it has strain on it. I think the plugs of the next model year up, the chrome ones have a recessed plug design to better improve design that will eat up the insulation 1/2" or so like a Soundstream. I never did buy those though but I think they would make a nice addition to the gunmetal amps. Custom modifications? That would be neat to see what you did! It couldn't be as bad as what happened to a guy at the shop I remember… the poor guys unknowingly took the back off a PC2350 to showcase the board on display like the limited-edition amps and just put a plexiglass window on it… Guess what happned? Most here already are laughing and know. All those metal fingers on the bottom cover that squish the transistors nice and tight to the heat sink...not there anymore. Effectively letting all of the transistors floating in midair pretty much other than the little bit of electrolytic grease underneath them… There may as well at the no heatsink. I think they got a couple seconds of sound before the smoke and flames came! LoL man oh man. Expensive mistake!!!
> Of course I was just mentioning that because it was a funny mistake modification, yours are good and functional to make the amp work as you said. I have gotten clever with quite a few mods myself! Soldering wires to the boards and such when necessary, adding fans etc


Dear God, that poor guy... He'll go down in history for that goof lol

Later today I'll get some quick pics of what I did.


----------



## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Took a while but here are the pics. The speaker wires are soldered onto the lugs, easily removable. The power and ground was a little easier. I found some terminals that worked perfectly at the Home Depot. I refused to take a dremel and grind down the opening so I just left the side panel off. You can see why it never runs hot 


















The Orion was a pain in the ass too. I managed to find the right speaker plug at a local electronics shop but had to improvise with the power and ground. Ended up soldering some 6awg ring terminals on and bolting the wires to them.I'm gonna shorten the bolts and put some shrink wrap over it. Looks pretty sketchy but it's perfectly safe.


----------



## jnoga (Oct 1, 2013)

I love the *********** class amp. Just how rare are they?


----------



## jnoga (Oct 1, 2013)

I have installed these into several cars. Most recently in my 1984 HURST/OLDS


----------



## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

Shinju said:


> The PC class amplifiers are an upgrade build to the Art class amplifiers. They support lower impedances and are a little more stable.
> 
> I think you are going to enjoy them. I am sure the Art series guys will come in here and argue but it is true. I have worked on various art series amplifiers and very very few PC class amplifiers.
> 
> Dont get me wrong as we talked about via pm on caraudio.com I love Art series stuff but this is a case of were the next level of PPI amps were an upgrade internally.



Exactly the PC amps weren't as sexy but they were a upgraded/reinforced version of the art boards. Now there were slight sound differences out of the box. Stronger yes but some think at the cost of slight SQ drop off. The direction they were headed caused many of the leadership to splinter off and create Xtant. The early PC was slightly improved arts. The rest I don't know may not have changed much.


----------



## Big T (Apr 4, 2012)

jnoga said:


> I love the *********** class amp. Just how rare are they?


I have 2 PC 4400 LEWs and a PC 2300 LEW. I often wondered how many were made. Mine are like new sitting on a shelf iin my shop wrapped in bubble wrap.

I had white .2 Arts and Precision Power called my buddy who was a dealer and told them they were comming out with a white limited edition amp and asked him to see if I wanted some because they knew I would only run white amps. LOL... They sent me a pic and I traded my Arts. I wish I had been able to keep them too tho.

Anyway the story I heard is they had some heat sinks left over that they hadnt chromed and needed to do something with them so they decided to make these. I know they didnt make a full line and several amp models were missing in the L.E.W.s.. Mine were the only ones I have seen till this.


----------



## firey_kimchi (Feb 5, 2011)

I've been collecting PPI Power Class amps since 1999. I like the sound quality that they put out. I have a PC250, (2) PC275, (2) PC2100, PC 2150, (2) PC1400, PC450, (2) side links, and a spacer. My rare ones are the PC2300 LEW and PC4400 LEW (both NIB). I also have the EPX-223 in charcoal gray and white. Here's a couple pictures.


----------



## firey_kimchi (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's another pic of them all. The one thing I don't like about the PPI's are the terminals. Mine are extremely hard to remove once I insert them in. I had to pop one off with a screwdriver. The PC250 is currently in my vehicle.


----------



## JPOSEY (Nov 9, 2011)

I love all the PC amps and just because the PCX were manufactured overseas does not mean they were inferior.  They are the same design. Over the years, only the higher rated amps were tightly regulated. I've owned a lot of PC amps and several PCX designed amps and I love them. The PCX-4125 is my favorite. Flexible and powerful.


----------



## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

firey_kimchi said:


> Here's another pic of them all. The one thing I don't like about the PPI's are the terminals. Mine are extremely hard to remove once I insert them in. I had to pop one off with a screwdriver. The PC250 is currently in my vehicle.


Nice collection. 

I know this is a really old thread, but I'll give my feedback. I have a pc250 and a pc275 that sit in a box until I need them. I just take em out, hook em up and they work every time. They have been used and abused and yet they still sound great and perform well.

I have limited experience with with the ref series but from my understanding they are a bit more complicated to set up and the switches tend to have issues. Not a fan of having the crossover switches on the bottom side.


Of course anyone that has seen my "twins" thread knows that I'm working on restoring a pc2350 and touching up a pc21400.2 and those are great too. I'm a little annoyed about the transistors hanging off the edges of the board, it's really easy to break them off, but it's also a great design for cooling.

The boards are gorgeous too. The 2350 is getting the heat sink repainted and the board will be sitting outside of the sink in a display once it's done.


----------

