# Need a new home theater subwoofer



## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

So, I need a new powered sub for my home theater system. What I have s nothing special, just one of the refurb'd Onkyo home theater in a box 5.1 setup, but I sold off the sub awhile back when my old roommate picked up a nicer one. Now, I've moved, and have no sub anymore. 

Preferably, I'd like to spend <$150 shipped, $200 max. I can't really DIY something because it's going to look like hell, unless I can find something with a blown river but a good, powerful amp, and replace the driver with something better?


Thanks in advance!!


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## todd4198 (Oct 13, 2009)

Sounds exactly like what my budget was...and after looking over on the avs forum, I picked the BIC F12. It's been really good so far, especially for the money- $183 shipped at amazon. I'm still messing with the placement of it though, makes quite a difference...
Amazon.com: BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer: Electronics


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

todd4198 said:


> Sounds exactly like what my budget was...and after looking over on the avs forum, I picked the BIC F12. It's been really good so far, especially for the money- $183 shipped at amazon. I'm still messing with the placement of it though, makes quite a difference...
> Amazon.com: BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer: Electronics


Thanks, that looks nice. Any idea what that driver is?


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## todd4198 (Oct 13, 2009)

What the driver is specifically? I don't know and haven't heard anyone say. Aluminum cone with a foam surround is what I know. Forgot to say don't expect too much for music, I've noticed it can get a bit sloppy on some songs. It's awesome for movies though.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

What about this guy, the BIC V220? Seems like it gets a touch better reviews on AVS, and has a more powerful amp (200 rms).

Amazon.com: BIC America V-1220 12-Inch 430-Watt Down-Firing Powered Subwoofer: Electronics


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## todd4198 (Oct 13, 2009)

Hmmm hadn't seen that one...guess all the threads on the F12 caught my attention. I say go for it, little more powerful amp and plays a tad lower. The F12 has a 5 year warranty, and the 1220 has 2/amp and 7/driver if that makes any difference.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

I've done some CL shopping too, and from some comparison threads on AVS, the JBL PB10 also seems liek a good buy. I've found one new on CL local for $75,a nd a used one for $100. Potentially purchasing both of those (and having (2) 150W 10's could be quite exciting for the price of a single one of these guys


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

What about this Klipsch:Klipsch SUB10 10" black 200W powered subwoofer (SUB 10) at Vanns.com

However in my case it would be for my 2.1 bedroom music system, not my home T.


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## m R g S r (Oct 1, 2009)

I have an older Denon powered sub made in the USA, the original 8" speaker blew so I cut a new piece of MDF and screwed it to the bottom to hold (2) tang band 6.5 subs. It sounds great, but I want to build a horn. So I'll sell it for $235 shipped if you're interested. I have pics if you want..


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

newegg.com has deals on a few HT powered subs right now... 
Newegg.com - Home Audio Speakers,subwoofer

of note is this: Newegg.com - Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered Subwoofer Each


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

94VG30DE said:


> newegg.com has deals on a few HT powered subs right now...
> Newegg.com - Home Audio Speakers,subwoofer
> 
> of note is this: Newegg.com - Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered Subwoofer Each


Thats a 50w sub man. I know power ratings aren't everything, but you mean to tell me that thing sounds SO good, and is SO efficient, it'll make up for having 1/3-1/4 the power of the other subs mentioned here?


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## todd4198 (Oct 13, 2009)

kennyg said:


> I've done some CL shopping too, and from some comparison threads on AVS, the JBL PB10 also seems liek a good buy. I've found one new on CL local for $75,a nd a used one for $100. Potentially purchasing both of those (and having (2) 150W 10's could be quite exciting for the price of a single one of these guys


If you have the room, a lot of the guys on AVS run 2 subs and rave about it, so I imagine two of these would be pretty good, and you could always just resell them and get something different if they weren't good enough. How low do they go since they're 10's? 



Dr_jitsu said:


> What about this Klipsch:Klipsch SUB10 10" black 200W powered subwoofer (SUB 10) at Vanns.com
> 
> However in my case it would be for my 2.1 bedroom music system, not my home T.


I hear a lot of good things about these too, never heard one in person though.


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

kennyg said:


> Thats a 50w sub man. I know power ratings aren't everything, but you mean to tell me that thing sounds SO good, and is SO efficient, it'll make up for having 1/3-1/4 the power of the other subs mentioned here?


Here is the sub from Newegg I am looking at:Newegg.com - Polk Audio PSW Series PSW505 12" Powered Subwoofer Each

It is either the Polk or the Klipsch...it will be going with a pair of Polk Monitor 70's, a Harmon Kardon 3490 (150 watts per channel) and an Onkyo 24 dac cd player.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

kennyg said:


> Thats a 50w sub man. I know power ratings aren't everything, but you mean to tell me that thing sounds SO good, and is SO efficient, it'll make up for having 1/3-1/4 the power of the other subs mentioned here?


haha sorry for not spending more than 30 seconds researching before I gave you links to work through. I won't post links next time  You said cheap, but you don't want to fabricate anything. Your choices are then either low power or getting patient and buying used.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

What about these guys? Can't find many reviews, there is a thread for them ont he Blu-Ray forum, people seem to be impressed. Hardly any reviews on AVS about them though.

New Acoustic Audio RWSUB-15 600W 15" Powered Home Sub - eBay (item 380306859825 end time Jan-17-11 18:32:35 PST)


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

94VG30DE said:


> haha sorry for not spending more than 30 seconds researching before I gave you links to work through. I won't post links next time  You said cheap, but you don't want to fabricate anything. Your choices are then either low power or getting patient and buying used.



Every single review I've read everywhere about the Polk subs is that they sound like complete trash. 


I think I've narrowed it down to either a pair of JBL PB-10's, or one of those BIC drivers. I found a killer deal on the JBL's local, and a few reviews have said they sound great.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

I really liked the Definitive Technology 8". I have seen them go on sale recently for $150.00

I have the Infinity 10" now. I wish I still had my Difinitive.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

kennyg said:


> Every single review I've read everywhere about the Polk subs is that they sound like complete trash.
> 
> 
> I think I've narrowed it down to either a pair of JBL PB-10's, or one of those BIC drivers. I found a killer deal on the JBL's local, and a few reviews have said they sound great.


Yep, everything I have ever had from JBL has been good stuff. By going local you save shipping, which is a big deal on subs. That's the direction I would go, provided you don't need the sub _this instant_. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer to find a good deal locally.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

94VG30DE said:


> Yep, everything I have ever had from JBL has been good stuff. By going local you save shipping, which is a big deal on subs. That's the direction I would go, provided you don't need the sub _this instant_. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer to find a good deal locally.




Whaty would you say a JBL PB-10 is worth, any idea? I found one brand new, and there are 2 used. Was thinking I could try to get 2 of them, and have a matched set?


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

how about this Mirage Mirage OMD Prestige S8 8" black 200W powered subwoofer Gloss Black Upgrade from Omni S8 subwoofer at Vanns.com

How does it compare to the $150 Definitive tech 8?


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## topdawg (Jan 13, 2011)

If you had a box for them I have 3 eD EHQS's that would make a pretty sweet HT setup...


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

kennyg said:


> Whaty would you say a JBL PB-10 is worth, any idea? I found one brand new, and there are 2 used. Was thinking I could try to get 2 of them, and have a matched set?


Not sure. I found this on my local CL, but outside of that I've never directly looked into it: PREMIUM SUB 300-watt JBL home theater powered sub MODEL: Jbl Venue 10


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

topdawg said:


> If you had a box for them I have 3 eD EHQS's that would make a pretty sweet HT setup...


How would that driver compare to any of the drivers in any of the powered subs I've been looking at?


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## topdawg (Jan 13, 2011)

kennyg said:


> How would that driver compare to any of the drivers in any of the powered subs I've been looking at?


I really don't have much experience with any of them. I bought them on eD's forum as an impulse and haven't really used them yet. But I figured with your budget I would offer them up to you. (I don't have enough post on here to start my own thread yet) I'll add the specs of these and you can let me know if your interested. I was looking for $75 + shipping and I'll throw in a 4th for a spare motor.

Qts : .375
Qes : 0.49
Qms : 1.506
Fs : 25 Hz
Re : 1.8
Vas : 157 L
MMS : 90g
BL : 7.2 Tm
SPL : 89.1 dB
SD : 510 M^2
Xmax : 9.1 MM

Magnet Width : 5.25"
Cutout : 11.00"
Mounting Depth : 5.00"
Total Height : 5.60"
Displacement : .04 cF
Outside Diameter : 12.00"

Box Size : 1.5cF Sealed / 2.0cF Vented
Power Handling : 200w


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

topdawg said:


> I really don't have much experience with any of them. I bought them on eD's forum as an impulse and haven't really used them yet. But I figured with your budget I would offer them up to you. (I don't have enough post on here to start my own thread yet) I'll add the specs of these and you can let me know if your interested. I was looking for $75 + shipping and I'll throw in a 4th for a spare motor.
> 
> Qts : .375
> Qes : 0.49
> ...



Considering they were $15 or $20 each.... I have their specs, they're on ED's site  If I'm gonna build something, I guess I could use my old ass Orion XTR Series 2 10's that I love love LOVE. Would put them to nice use instead of sitting in an attic, and they're ridiculously efficient. Not sure if they'd go low enough for home theater use though.... Would need to find somebody local to build me an enclosure though, as there's no possible way I could do it.


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## topdawg (Jan 13, 2011)

kennyg said:


> Considering they were $15 or $20 each.... I have their specs, they're on ED's site  If I'm gonna build something, I guess I could use my old ass Orion XTR Series 2 10's that I love love LOVE. Would put them to nice use instead of sitting in an attic, and they're ridiculously efficient. Not sure if they'd go low enough for home theater use though.... Would need to find somebody local to build me an enclosure though, as there's no possible way I could do it.


I wan't trying to hide the price they were when they were closed out, but like most discontinued items the older they are the harder it is to find a matching pair let alone 4. So I figured it was worth the extra $15. But like I said I just thought I would toss the offer out there. No hard feelings, but you never know until you try.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

topdawg said:


> I wan't trying to hide the price they were when they were closed out, but like most discontinued items the older they are the harder it is to find a matching pair let alone 4. So I figured it was worth the extra $15. But like I said I just thought I would toss the offer out there. No hard feelings, but you never know until you try.


Oh no, it's cool, I wasn't trying to be rude. Sorry if I came off that way 


It just seems it's hard to compare many of these home theater powered subs, as they give very, very few specs to go from.


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## topdawg (Jan 13, 2011)

kennyg said:


> Oh no, it's cool, I wasn't trying to be rude. Sorry if I came off that way
> 
> 
> It just seems it's hard to compare many of these home theater powered subs, as they give very, very few specs to go from.


No worries, I'm just new on this forum and didn't want to be that guy that thought his stuff was "gold" and everyone else had crap! Good luck finding what you're looking for, I'll keep an eye on this to see what you end up with!


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

topdawg said:


> No worries, I'm just new on this forum and didn't want to be that guy that thought his stuff was "gold" and everyone else had crap! Good luck finding what you're looking for, I'll keep an eye on this to see what you end up with!




I'm not completely against building something, but if *I* build it - it's going to look like complete ass. That, and plate amps seem to be expensive, more expensive than buying a powered subwoofer.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Building yourself can be more expensive in this case, bc of the cost of plate amps. If you can use an older PA amp or something (which is what I will be doing) that might work too and save you some money, or get more power for the money. Partsexpress has plate amps on sale last time I checked, but they have some low-power stereo amps that might do the trick too. Also check your local CL for used PA amps, as they come up all the time.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

94VG30DE said:


> Building yourself can be more expensive in this case, bc of the cost of plate amps. If you can use an older PA amp or something (which is what I will be doing) that might work too and save you some money, or get more power for the money. Partsexpress has plate amps on sale last time I checked, but they have some low-power stereo amps that might do the trick too. Also check your local CL for used PA amps, as they come up all the time.


Ya, I've noticed this (about the cost of plate amps at least). Any chance you'd be willing to link me to a reasonably priced PA amp? I really know nothing about them.


EDIT: Also, how much power should I be looking for, realistically. I don't have alot of (well, none really) of experience with home subwoofers. Perhaps I'll get that JBL, since it's cheap, and just re-sell it if I need more?? I think thats a 150 wattm rms single 10. If I were doing a pair of 10's, or a pair of 12's, I'm guessing I'd want twice as much power as well, maybe more??


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## todd4198 (Oct 13, 2009)

kennyg said:


> Ya, I've noticed this (about the cost of plate amps at least). Any chance you'd be willing to link me to a reasonably priced PA amp? I really know nothing about them.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Also, how much power should I be looking for, realistically. I don't have alot of (well, none really) of experience with home subwoofers. Perhaps I'll get that JBL, since it's cheap, and just re-sell it if I need more?? I think thats a 150 wattm rms single 10. If I were doing a pair of 10's, or a pair of 12's, I'm guessing I'd want twice as much power as well, maybe more??


Well with my F12, I have it set around 3-4 and it gets pretty loud, especially for 150 watts. If you end up not being happy, can always get a second one  Or just go with the 2 JBLs and see how that goes too.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

PA amps: PRO AUDIO AMPLIFIERS from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog. 

Saw a JBL PB-10 at a local pawn shop today for $100. Seems to be a pretty decent unit, although I didn't have time to do any listening. 

Amount of power all depends on what you are expecting out of it, and what speaker you are putting it with. If you are matching it to a regular home theater in a box, probably anything in the 100-200W range will be fine. Just remember it isn't a custom built high power 15" cab with tons of airspace, and you should be fine.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

Well, I got the JBL last night. At full volume, it sounds great. However, at lower volumes - it's simply not enough, and I can barely feel/hear it. I don't want to have to max the little guy out in order to reach my desired volume.


Also, whats the deal with front-firing drivers vs down-firing drivers? Do you not hear any cone distortions or mechanical noise (if the driver has any) in a front-firing subwoofer? I'm assuming the down-firing options have more overall spl output, right? Just curious, need to weigh my options, and see how much space I'm willing to give up for a subwoofer solution, and the thought of paired driver front-firing enclosures came to mind, but I'm not sure how it works in reality, and where to aim the port on an enclosure like that.


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

Probably need 2....I seriously considered the JBL, but I am going with the Polk PSW 505 (12 inch) instead.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

Dr_jitsu said:


> Probably need 2....I seriously considered the JBL, but I am going with the Polk PSW 505 (12 inch) instead.



Ya, I'm looking for a second one now, but just weighing my options if I'd be better off selling this one and doing like,a pair of standing sub towers with 2 drivers each, or something else utterly ridiculous?


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

All the research I did suggested that the JBL is a quality piece, I would just keep things simple and get another.


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## todd4198 (Oct 13, 2009)

Have you moved it around at all? Put it up against the wall and see if that helps at lower volumes.


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## kazlx (Feb 17, 2011)

Check out AudiogoN high-end Audio for sale, high end HiFi classifieds, audiophile auctions, audio forums. They have a pretty big for sale area and you might be able to find a good deal on a sub. Most home theater stuff is in really good shape used and will look and sound fantastic. I have an SVS that I got on sale when they released a new model and I love it. I know HSU makes some pretty good subs that are around 4-500 new. You might be able to find one in your budget if you look.


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

After lots of research, I am going with a Chase Home Theater 18.1 series 2.


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## kennyg (Jun 23, 2007)

Dr_jitsu said:


> After lots of research, I am going with a Chase Home Theater 18.1 series 2.


Link?


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

Uses the same driver as the Seaton Submersive:http://www.chasehometheater.com/ind...tegory_id=29&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=119


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## subdude7227 (Mar 2, 2011)

Dr_jitsu said:


> Uses the same driver as the Seaton Submersive


How can it be the same driver when the CHT site says "Driver: Custom designed and manufactured in the USA, to CraigSUB specifications, exclusively for Chase Home Theater"

Seaton used a driver designed for craig sub specs exclusively for CHT subs? I highly doubt that. 

The misinformation being bandied about regarding the quality of CHT parts & subs is unreal...

I saw another post somewhere where a CHT fan mentioned that CHT has received glowing professional reviews. As far as I can see, the only reviews come from the ex-av123 forum cult that migrated to the CHT forum when CHT and av123 were flirting with partnerships. Does anyone have links to professional reviews of CHT subs? anyone? Or reviews from someone NOT previously a big fan of av123 and the assorted mess? 

I haven't seen one yet.


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

Correct, it is not the same driver. CHT received excellent reviews from an objective test done by dub aficionados on avs:SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - AVS Forum 

I purchased a pair of the 18.1's and they are the most amazing subs I have ever had. They sound phenomenal! They shook my whole house on the beginning scene of Star Wars 2, ATT of Clones.

I played a Deadmou5 song with driving bass, and it was very tight and fast, not at all laggy. 

While these are excellent products, There are however a few individuals with a personal agenda against Craig Chase (the CHT deginer) who go so far as to join forums for the express purpose of bashing him and his products. Its rather sad.

Having said that it is interesting that the above is your first post.


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## subdude7227 (Mar 2, 2011)

Dr_jitsu said:


> Correct, it is not the same driver.


Interesting that you didn't feel the need to correct the info until called out on it. 

Regarding the avs thread, those are not "objective reviewers." You know the history between them and CHT as well as the rest of us. If you frequent the CHT forums, and the avs thread, you know the relationship history. 

Regarding the content of my first post, why shouldn't I respond when I see clear overrepresentation of the origin or quality of CHT parts such as trying to link it to a well-regarded designer like Seaton? That's the same kind of stuff av123 did all the time, and why so many folks got sucked into subpar products and scams. 

You do get points for finally admitting that it's not true, however I'm not sure it offsets the points you lose for posting the misleading Seaton comment in the first place. Makes one wonder about the _other_ agenda out there- the one pumping CHT at every turn.


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## Dr_jitsu (Dec 17, 2010)

Look, I have absolutely no agenda whatsoever. I do not go around joining forums for the express purpose of bashing someone and their products.

All I wanted was the best sound for the price that I could get and the CHT18.T has more than delivered.

Yes they were more expensive than the subs being discussed on this thread ($1445 delivered) .

They shake my whole house on HT scenes such as the beginning scene of Star Wars 2, ATT of Clones.

For music, when I played a Deadmou5 song with driving bass, and it was very tight and fast, not at all laggy. 

For the price they can't be beat. And you are wrong in your claim that the testers had a predisposition to favor CHT. This fact was demonstrated clearly over at AVS where you have lost any and all credibility so now you start up over here.

I am not going to waste any more time on you, in fact I am going to go listen to some music.


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## subdude7227 (Mar 2, 2011)

Dr_jitsu said:


> This fact was demonstrated clearly over at AVS where you have lost any and all credibility so now you start up over here.


Wow. 

 I am not registered on avs. In fact, I'm hardly registered anywhere online. I mostly lurk. I just felt compelled to register here given the blatent attempt to hitch CHT to the Seaton wagon.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

kennyg said:


> So, I need a new powered sub for my home theater system. What I have s nothing special, just one of the refurb'd Onkyo home theater in a box 5.1 setup, but I sold off the sub awhile back when my old roommate picked up a nicer one. Now, I've moved, and have no sub anymore.
> 
> Preferably, I'd like to spend <$150 shipped, $200 max. I can't really DIY something because it's going to look like hell, unless I can find something with a blown river but a good, powerful amp, and replace the driver with something better?
> 
> ...


For those that forgot, ^that^ is the OP. $1400+ subwoofer systems are ridiculously off topic. If you boys want to bicker at each other about who made what, take it into a different thread. It's not relevant here.


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