# Real world differences between a cheap amp and expensive amp with equal power



## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

So Ive been looking into alot of the tech side of amplifiers and such. A couple of YouTube vloggers are dynoing basically every amp they can get their hands on. I saw that the small Kenwood mono amp dynoed it's listed rms numbers almost 100% with a Steve Meade Dyno without clipping. + Or - 10 watts at 300x1 at 2ohm which is what it was rated at. This amp can be found online for $79. Throws out the power and Dyno shows this without clipping. So let's say I get just as an example a JL XD300 for $300+ dollars. So we got 2 amps big price difference putting out the same wattage without clipping. 

This is just an example. Let's say I'm blind and I do a listening test with these 2 amps in the same car and listen to the same songs on the same good quality sub. Rotate back and forth hooking up that amp. Would that guy be able to tell the difference in anything, sound quality, accuracy, etc. With today's technology I'm just wondering how much it's worth spending big bucks on amps in 2017. 10-20 years ago is a different story. Materials, etc is cheap these days, probably more than one think, especially cars. I can't give out this number but a GF of mines mother is in a high position at Toyota and can obtain a Toyota at a price nowhere close to what we are led to believe dealer cost is. 

I know it's irrelevant but really want to here opinions on the amp subject. The equally powered amps dynoed at equal power one costing 3x as much as the other. What am I getting for the money.


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## sensarmy (May 25, 2014)

:dead_horse:


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

History and real world test have shown a clean watt sounds like a clean watt. 
Why pay more? Better quality, customer service, the name, newer tech

Now a dyno doesn't show what the power supply can do over time. Look at the cheap amps that have big dynamic power which they say simulates music, it doesn't but anyway. 
That shows they have a crap power supply and can't maintain power.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Swaglife81 said:


> So Ive been looking into alot of the tech side of amplifiers and such. A couple of YouTube vloggers are dynoing basically every amp they can get their hands on. I saw that the small Kenwood mono amp dynoed it's listed rms numbers almost 100% with a Steve Meade Dyno without clipping. + Or - 10 watts at 300x1 at 2ohm which is what it was rated at. This amp can be found online for $79. Throws out the power and Dyno shows this without clipping. So let's say I get just as an example a JL XD300 for $300+ dollars. So we got 2 amps big price difference putting out the same wattage without clipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There is a 3500+ post thread about this here already... enjoy the read...

Don't think it came to any conclusion 3500 posts later...

I would say 1 year ago I would have done the whole monty - Brax amps and Utopia speakers, Sony and Helix DSP all active 

After a bad experience with Paypal which isn't resolved - I am like 3 channels and a DSP and done 

And it's getting simpler by The month.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I think in the subwoofer frequency range its almost impossible to hear difference in equal power/class amps. in the high frequencies especially midrange? there will be difference, even though some say "all amps sound the same" they simply don't. sometimes you pay more for a name..i don't..but some do. sometimes its worth paying more for build quality and rnd, and that's why people will spend on jl..I wont..but I'm using your example.

one concern I have with cheap amps is..yes they work and do rated..but for how long? stress, heat, daily abuse? sometimes that's worth the price of a higher end amp simply because of "buy once, cry once"


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

does the dyno sweep all frequencies?

assuming it does...

Unless you also saw a dyno for the JL, it's likely the JL will do a bit more power as JL doesn't rate using CEA typical 1%THD @1khz.

Will you hear a loudness difference if the JL amp has 20-30% more power? 
No

50% more power is likely where you could start hearing a loudness difference in side by side tests.
Double the power and it will be noticeable.

You need ten times the power to double loudness.

Outside of features (like a remote bass know) , the sound will be the same.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

AAAAAAA said:


> You need ten times the power to double (PERCEIVED) loudness.


Fixed


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

2x power doubles intensity. 3db gain. 
6-10db gain is procieved as being 2x as loud. 

The amp dyno test 40hz on bass amps and 1khz on full range amps.


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## BrainMach1 (Jun 19, 2014)

AAAAAAA said:


> does the dyno sweep all frequencies?


I was watching the Old School Audio guy dyno some amps and he commented that he was testing at 40 Hz since most people use the large amps for bass.

What was interesting is that the Old School Orion 2100 HCCA did rated power at 1k Hz but not at 40 Hz where people would want 800+ Watts.

A non-linear output is going to make music sound different. I have not scene anyone test at multiple frequencies, pink noise or a sweep of frequencies.


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## TallTexan (Dec 14, 2007)

As other posters have said, SQ differences between similar amps has been discussed ad nauseam. My contention is after a certain point, buying a more expensive amp is an exercise in diminishing returns and your money would be better spent elsewhere when chasing improved SQ.

From a practical standpoint, your amp should "match" the rest of your system. Meaning if you have high end speakers price wise, your amp should also be. Of course, putting a cheap amp on great speakers probably won't degrade the overall SQ. Likewise, an expensive amp feeding cheap speakers isn't going to improve your SQ much.

I just think for the same money DSP + less expensive amp is better than an high priced amp by itself.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Not all amps sound the same. Not at all.
They can be eq'ed to mostly sound the same but straight out of the box simply swapping from one amp to the next no.
It has gotten better over the years . There is less and less difference in today's amps than there was 20 years ago.
I once bought a Kenwood amp. Relatively in expensive but made good power and got plenty loud.
It had a weird sort of hollow sound to it. The music had no warmth to it at all.
I couldn't take it. I went and bought a jl slash that put out the same power. Sounded world's different. 
Clipping also isn't the only type of distortion an amp can have. 
I think it's just hard for the old schoolers that have tried many amps long ago when amps did sound very different to understand that with each passing year technology has us to a point that the differences are becoming harder and harder to hear.
These days I don't worry so much about it. I buy amps that can make the power I want from a reputable brand.
This time around I chose the jl hd. Last time was the focal fps. I liked the focal better but I can't tell you why.
Nothing stands out to me with either. There was just something about the focal that sounded better to me.
I'll never forget the sound of that Kenwood though. Possibly the worst sounding amp I've ever owned.
It reminded me a lot of my technics turntables.
I spent thousands of hours djing on these.
My buddy cheaped out and bought some stanton tables.
They had the exact same meek hollow sound.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

If any amplifier is adding color to the sound it's not an amplifier. 
Drop1 of course a cheap kenwood and a tightly regulated slash amp will sound different. Completely different power delivery. 
That's the difference. POWER.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

BrainMach1 said:


> I was watching the Old School Audio guy dyno some amps and he commented that he was testing at 40 Hz since most people use the large amps for bass.
> 
> What was interesting is that the Old School Orion 2100 HCCA did rated power at 1k Hz but not at 40 Hz where people would want 800+ Watts.
> 
> A non-linear output is going to make music sound different. I have not scene anyone test at multiple frequencies, pink noise or a sweep of frequencies.


No amps have linear output through out it's entire range.

It's why the CEA rating came out with 4ohm @1khz....


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

OP, if you are buying this amplifier primarily for daily use, back and forth to work, etc. and will likely never compete at any level, go the cheaper route. Just make sure you install it correctly, have adequate ventilation and supply it with exactly what the manufacturer says it needs in the way of voltage and amperage. Do not over work the amp and do not load it down to resistances that are below rated parameters. 
Do all of that and you'll be happy.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

PPI_GUY said:


> OP, if you are buying this amplifier primarily for daily use, back and forth to work, etc. and will likely never compete at any level, go the cheaper route. Just make sure you install it correctly, have adequate ventilation and supply it with exactly what the manufacturer says it needs in the way of voltage and amperage. Do not over work the amp and do not load it down to resistances that are below rated parameters.
> Do all of that and you'll be happy.


But what about the triple crown that was won using cheap china class D amps from bought out PPI?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> If any amplifier is adding color to the sound it's not an amplifier.


what about that makes it NOT an amplifier? its still amplifying the signal, just not 100% true to the input source


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> what about that makes it NOT an amplifier? its still amplifying the signal, just not 100% true to the input source


You just answered the question. If the signal is modified then it's doing more then amplifying.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Numbers are just numbers. A cheapo 75W do output 75W of power comparing to a high end 75W amp. 
What make the price tag difference will be the internal parts used and how they market them.
You can have a tube amp but you will be facing some issues before getting them, the price, warm up time and bla-bla-bla. So the manufacturers come out with just output stage tube amp which can balance some setbacks from a true tube amp yet you can have a feel of what tube amp does.


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

Technically and objectively, there's no difference. Subjectively, there's a difference but the cause is probably the fact that it's extremely difficult to make sure the signal is exactly the same when comparing amps. Things would be easier if there were no gain adjustments, bass boost, crossovers,etc. and all amps had an adequately isolated signal path.

That being said: If I had $100 to spend on speakers and amps I'd buy the cheapest amp I could and invest the majority in the speakers.

also +1 on beating a dead horse, lol.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

If you buy a $100 5 channel amp that claims to produce 150x4 plus 1000x1, there is a good chance you wont get even a third of that power. And if the amp actually produces 150x4 and 1000x1 its not going to be a cheap amp.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Without subjective & objective testing, you won't know what any amp will do or how it will sound. Err on the side of brands known to do close to or dead on rated. Spend less... you're taking a chance. Spending more is no guarantee either.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

And that's the thing. In a car you are not hearing the amp, you are hearing the car. 
Demo the amp on a board or in another's car it's totally 10000% different then your car. 
It's just stupid. It's all in the head. 
You have no idea what any amp no matter the cost will sound like in your car until you put it there. Same goes for speakers


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

DC/Hertz said:


> And that's the thing. In a car you are not hearing the amp, you are hearing the car.
> 
> Demo the amp on a board or in another's car it's totally 10000% different then your car.
> 
> ...




That's assuming the other car has the identical equipment with the same amount of hours on them and the exact tune as well

This is why testing in a car is pointless... far too many variables to factor in

Car could sound better or worse depending on how it was installed and tuned IR if the equipment is the same or not... 

The only way to test a amp is in a environment which is controlled where most of the variables are removed...


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

It's all pointless. Just get what you want and make it happen. Get the most power you can. You can't magically make more if you don't buy enough.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Audibly checking out an amp is somewhat helpful. A buddy buys an el cheapo amp, that distorts way before a satisfactory listening level is reached. Well, I'm sure that helps to avoid that one, no? And I know we've seen many of those amps over the years. People still buy them. 

As far as sonic signatures? Too subjective outside of amps intended to impart such qualities such as tube amps. It's there in many amps, but I'm not going to chase a dragon. In the end, all you want is an amp that performs for the money spent and lasts long enough to be worth it. Not much to ask for, and surely not expensive to achieve. I still have a working set of Cadence Flash amps that I enjoyed very much. They were just too big for my last install.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

DC/Hertz said:


> If any amplifier is adding color to the sound it's not an amplifier.
> Drop1 of course a cheap kenwood and a tightly regulated slash amp will sound different. Completely different power delivery.
> That's the difference. POWER.


If you had said "it's not JUST an amplifier" then I would certainly agree. Even if it colors the sound it's still an amplifier, maybe not a good one, but it is an amplifier.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

gijoe said:


> If you had said "it's not JUST an amplifier" then I would certainly agree. Even if it colors the sound it's still an amplifier, maybe not a good one, but it is an amplifier.


 Agreed. "Just" fits better


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> But what about the triple crown that was won using cheap china class D amps from bought out PPI?


Obviously it can be done but, I got the feeling from the OP that he wasn't planning on competing at that high of a level. Hence, my suggestion that he go a more inexpensive route with his limited budget. 

BTW, I am a huge fan of the JL Audio XD amps and believe they offer a great bang for the buck bargain. But, compared to those PPI amps you referenced, they are a bit pricey.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

PPI_GUY said:


> OP, if you are buying this amplifier primarily for daily use, back and forth to work, etc. and will likely never compete at any level, go the cheaper route. Just make sure you install it correctly, have adequate ventilation and supply it with exactly what the manufacturer says it needs in the way of voltage and amperage. Do not over work the amp and do not load it down to resistances that are below rated parameters.
> Do all of that and you'll be happy.


Appreciate the replies everybody. I'm 35 and been a full time car enthusiast since 15 and always a DIY. From a car tv to exhaust to paint correction, etc. I think I had some bad experiences in the past with known good names and good experiences with lesser know names as far as aftermarket.

I wont be in any competitions or anything and not looking for the cheapest anything. The tech that's came around the last 5 years in all aspects wouldn't even be contemplated 15-20 years ago. 

Part of my question for asking is I left the car audio game for a while when I was drag racing alot. Back in the late 90s and early 00s everything sounded different but brands started catching up with each other. I'm pretty much set on a NVX JAD 5 channel, right off hand can't remember the PN but the popular one.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

PPI_GUY said:


> Obviously it can be done but, I got the feeling from the OP that he wasn't planning on competing at that high of a level. Hence, my suggestion that he go a more inexpensive route with his limited budget.
> 
> BTW, I am a huge fan of the JL Audio XD amps and believe they offer a great bang for the buck bargain. But, compared to those PPI amps you referenced, they are a bit pricey.


I like the RDs. Same switching as the XD but they added a clip light and imo way better chassis.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I've often wondered how companies go about having separate lines.
Do they they start with the flagship and start removing Certian aspects or technologies or do they build each amp from the ground up using less and less expensive methods and components.
Amps are something I never buy unless they are flagship models.
If they aren't the top line that means they could have done better and that leaves me wondering what I'm not getting.
I'm much the same with speakers except I know as long as the speakers I'm buying can cover the freq range I need and the distortion is low enough at the volume I intend to play them at i can make them sound however I like.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

drop1 said:


> I've often wondered how companies go about having separate lines.
> Do they they start with the flagship and start removing Certian aspects or technologies or do they build each amp from the ground up using less and less expensive methods and components.
> Amps are something I never buy unless they are flagship models.
> If they aren't the top line that means they could have done better and that leaves me wondering what I'm not getting.
> I'm much the same with speakers except I know as long as the speakers I'm buying can cover the freq range I need and the distortion is low enough at the volume I intend to play them at i can make them sound however I like.


Lol what you think about speakers is even more true with amps. 
Some work there way up. Some work down to fill price points. It's all about grabbing an market segment. 
Some just give you all they got the first time and offer variations of that platform. Mostly channels and power.


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