# Acoustic treatments, simple to crazy...what have you tried?



## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Just looking to see what people have tried, and had success with... even if minor.

I know everyone has tried different things to tame reflections, some work...some don't. Some are simple ... some extravagant. I saw that Erin's pillars looked like a mad wookie not too long ago , but hey if it works....Lol

Foam, dash mats, covered panels, suede, insulation, grill cloth etc.. what have you tried? How well did it work? Did you try to keep it aesthetically pleasing, or just go for pure function... 

Post pics if you can.
Thanks guys


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Not a whole lot of interest here...

As my truck sets, I'm just trying to "soften" things up some. I don't compete, but I love tinkering and modifying things... in hopes of improvement.
Currently I'm trying 1/8 ccf on panels covered in black grill cloth. I covered my sails first, and a small piece under the dash. Doing the sails was mainly to cover a previous tweeter install. I was pleased enough with the outcome, to think about treating other reflective areas.
I imagine it may not do "much", but anything would be better than smooth solid panels, right?

Also looking into suede as well...


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Ive covered just about every possible panel and window in various cars.

in my BMW, I had center console panels made from 2" acoustic foam , covered in a suede type material I cant find anymore

This helped with center console reflections which caused the image to seem farther inside the pillar than it truely was

Underdash panels , same as above. helped with Kick panels

I made an insert panels for my Map pockets, same as above. helped w breaking up reflections off the door

Custom dash pad made from 1/2" headliner material.

Headliner redone in thicker material

Rear side windows , I had removable panels with 3" foam covered in the suede material.

Also had a panel that covered the rear window.


Lancer, used 1" foam on center console. B and Cpillars. 1/2" on dash
1" is the maximum allowed for my class.
also did 1" removable panels on rear door windows.


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## underdog (Jul 5, 2011)

Throw pillows
The lady's really like them.
They have other uses and they supposedly help tame reflections.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

You weren't kidding about almost everything. Lol

When you refer to panels, did you apply directly to the panel, are make a semi removable treatment? I'm kinda kicking around form fitting panels that could be removed if needed.

I'm just at a crossroads of deciding how much effort I want to invest in a non competitive vehicle. Lol but it gives me something to do.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

center console panels, i Taped then glassed the sides of the panel so I had the exact shape. Then covered in foam and material and they are held in place w velcro.

windows panels are all pressure press fit

BMW Dash, I glassed the top of the dash, removed it. covered it and it sits in place with no movement unlike an aftermarket dash pad


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

You might want to take a look at my headliner sillyness in my build thread (check my sig).

I've got other plans in my head, not sure how much will actually materialize.

I'm also writing a piece in my spare time about the acoustics of a car. I'll keep you posted once I publish that.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

underdog said:


> Throw pillows
> The lady's really like them.
> They have other uses and they supposedly help tame reflections.


Lol like your thought process! Reminds me of my first car... no rear seats.. lots of bean bags.  was pretty fun.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

stochastic said:


> You might want to take a look at my headliner sillyness in my build thread (check my sig).
> 
> I've got other plans in my head, not sure how much will actually materialize.
> 
> I'm also writing a piece in my spare time about the acoustics of a car. I'll keep you posted once I publish that.


I will, thank you very much!

I currently have a dash mat and enjoy what it does for the dash mounted speakers. Looking to treat the underside of the dash, sides of the center console, and possibly the headliner. 

Was curious if people found certain materials were better suited for treatments, keeping in mind cosmetics to a certain degree. Velour, carpet, suede, grill cloth, etc

Obviously, some are far more noticeable cosmeticly than others.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> center console panels, i Taped then glassed the sides of the panel so I had the exact shape. Then covered in foam and material and they are held in place w velcro.
> 
> windows panels are all pressure press fit
> 
> BMW Dash, I glassed the top of the dash, removed it. covered it and it sits in place with no movement unlike an aftermarket dash pad


Awesome! That was exactly the path I was looking at doing. Not worried about windows so much, but your center console is exactly what I was going to try.
However I think I may use my existing dash mat as a base, with added layers on top. Not so sure if I want to glass that.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

glassing the dash was easy. Just tape it off. release agent. Taped the window with plastic to prevent and splashing, but even if there was any, it peels off easily with a razor blade
couple layers. done...


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> glassing the dash was easy. Just tape it off. release agent. Taped the window with plastic to prevent and splashing, but even if there was any, it peels off easily with a razor blade
> couple layers. done...


True, not like you have to build it up structurally. 
Damn, add one more project to the list.
Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it!

How did you go about your under dash panels, cardboard template transfered to your backing material?
Just curious, as it can be pretty convoluted under there...


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> True, not like you have to build it up structurally.
> Damn, add one more project to the list.
> Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it!
> 
> ...


BMW underdash are flat so it was just a matter of covering the existing panel and then securing it in place, usually with OEM attachment points

but all you need to do is just make a flat board across.you can use peg board that has the holes in it already. and do foam on each side, that way you can do thicker foam without it hanging down into the footwell too much


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> BMW underdash are flat so it was just a matter of covering the existing panel and then securing it in place, usually with OEM attachment points
> 
> but all you need to do is just make a flat board across.you can use peg board that has the holes in it already. and do foam on each side, that way you can do thicker foam without it hanging down into the footwell too much


Ah, lucky man. Lol
Never thought of peg board... nice!

On a side note, window treatments are usable in competition? Or is that for the particular class you compete in?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Ah, lucky man. Lol
> Never thought of peg board... nice!
> 
> On a side note, window treatments are usable in competition? Or is that for the particular class you compete in?


yes you can cover all windows behind the Bpillar.
nothing may cover the front side windows or the interior of the windshield.
The outside of the windshield may be covered to keep car cool, remove judging distractions etc...but not the inside.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> yes you can cover all windows behind the Bpillar.
> nothing may cover the front side windows or the interior of the windshield.
> The outside of the windshield may be covered to keep car cool, remove judging distractions etc...but not the inside.


Okay, that makes sense. Just had me curious, thanks.

I'll post up some pics of my panels as I make them for critiquing. Hopefully others will as well... I'd like to see there solutions.

Again, thanks so much for sharing what you've done!


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Okay, that makes sense. Just had me curious, thanks.
> 
> I'll post up some pics of my panels as I make them for critiquing. Hopefully others will as well... I'd like to see there solutions.
> 
> Again, thanks so much for sharing what you've done!


anytime

at some point in the next few months as i get closer to competition of my new project, I'll post results , if any, of using acoustic treatments


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

Mic10is said:


> yes you can cover all windows behind the Bpillar.
> nothing may cover the front side windows or the interior of the windshield.
> The outside of the windshield may be covered to keep car cool, remove judging distractions etc...but not the inside.


What about clear tints on your windshield to keep the heat out? If a car has this done are they banned from all classes of competition?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Hmmm lets see... I spray foamed my rockers full.. the rear side panels where I couldn't get deadening (around the door latches) filled the cavity over the rear wheel wells and all along the floor of the trunk... basically down the whole sides of the car where deadener couldn't be put... 

Roof treaded with deadener and 1/8-1/2" CCF, headliner covered in 1/8" CCF and then my "fuzz" (see build log)

A/B/C pillar trim all covered in 1/8" CCF and fuzzed.. 

5x8' chunk of memory foam cut up and stuffed in the car... rear side panels full, dash full... 

Trunk lid filled with 1gal Spectrum liquid... 

Floor pan/firewall coated externally with 1gal Spectrum Sludge..

Dashmat.. 

This is beyond the "normal" deadening in mutiple layers (screw SDSS)


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> Not a whole lot of interest here...
> 
> As my truck sets, I'm just trying to "soften" things up some. I don't compete, but I love tinkering and modifying things... in hopes of improvement.
> Currently I'm trying 1/8 ccf on panels covered in black grill cloth. I covered my sails first, and a small piece under the dash. Doing the sails was mainly to cover a previous tweeter install. I was pleased enough with the outcome, to think about treating other reflective areas.
> ...




Closed cell foam would generally not absorb sound well. You probably want open cell foam but that also absorbs moisture. The common substance in DIY pro audio for absorption is rigid fiberglass board as it works just as well as open cell foam but at half the cost. Typically the fiberglass is covered by a sheet of fabric to keep the glass fibers in place. Rockwool is also used, there's also a similar product made from old blue jeans, but I imagine they might have issues with moisture in a car environment.

You originally mentioned your goal was to tame reflections - you can do this by either absorbing them or diffusing them. Absorption is easier, but you loose energy that way. Way too much diffusion can be a bad thing, but not enough makes the space sound small. Diffusers are also notoriously bulky in most designs - MLS and BAD diffuser designs work with a low depth profile, though under the dash of some cars may have room for other types.

I'd also take a look at which frequency range the acoustic treatment is designed for as that may change which treatment methods are realistic. Soft fabric can easily absorb at high frequencies, but midrange and lower make things tricky. Also, soft fabric and CCF will likely only have an absorption coefficient below 0.5 even at 6kHz (probably 0.2 around 2kHz) whereas open cell foam or rigid fiberglass boards will have absorption coefficients in the 1.1 or higher range across a wide spectrum of frequencies (just not below 200Hz or so unless the thickness is measured by feet rather than inches).

As a side note glass has absorption coefficients too, 125Hz~0.35 250Hz~0.25 500Hz~0.18 1kHz~0.12 2kHz~0.07 4kHz~0.04 (these figures came from Modern Recording Techniques 4th ed. by Focal Press) so maybe smooth solid panels aren't as bad as you originally assumed.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

stochastic said:


> Closed cell foam would generally not absorb sound well. You probably want open cell foam but that also absorbs moisture. The common substance in DIY pro audio for absorption is rigid fiberglass board as it works just as well as open cell foam but at half the cost. Typically the fiberglass is covered by a sheet of fabric to keep the glass fibers in place. Rockwool is also used, there's also a similar product made from old blue jeans, but I imagine they might have issues with moisture in a car environment.
> 
> You originally mentioned your goal was to tame reflections - you can do this by either absorbing them or diffusing them. Absorption is easier, but you loose energy that way. Way too much diffusion can be a bad thing, but not enough makes the space sound small. Diffusers are also notoriously bulky in most designs - MLS and BAD diffuser designs work with a low depth profile, though under the dash of some cars may have room for other types.
> 
> ...


 
My car has the deadest interior I've been in (not been in a lot mind you) 

Echo decay is incredible.. hard surface reflections minimal (there's still glass) and I haven't even covered the door cards yet.. (my non-scientific observation)

clapping your hands gives you a pretty good indication of reflections... music being dynamic, reflections are as well, making it harder to realize then a simple hand clap.. 

I can't imagine Mic10is car..


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

stochastic said:


> What about clear tints on your windshield to keep the heat out? If a car has this done are they banned from all classes of competition?


Tint wouldnt be considered something to enhance sound, unless you have some special tint..if thats the case please share

covering the inside of the windshield with anything would remove or reduce reflections from one of the worse offenders in a vehicle, thus taking the entire challenge of Car Audio competition out of the equation.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

edit... Doh...nevermind, answered my own quesiton..lol.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Mic10is said:


> Tint wouldnt be considered something to enhance sound, unless you have some special tint..if thats the case please share
> 
> covering the inside of the windshield with anything would remove or reduce reflections from one of the worse offenders in a vehicle, thus taking the entire challenge of Car Audio competition out of the equation.


What about claims made here...?? (courious of your opinion)

Automotive - S-LEC™


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

Mic10is said:


> Tint wouldnt be considered something to enhance sound, unless you have some special tint..if thats the case please share
> 
> covering the inside of the windshield with anything would remove or reduce reflections from one of the worse offenders in a vehicle, thus taking the entire challenge of Car Audio competition out of the equation.


Any tint on a window will do two things to the sound of that window (sometimes in very small doses, but as I already pointed out in this thread the window glass does these things already in small doses):
1) Reduce sound transmission through the window (both directions).
2) Reduce reflected sound energy on the side the tint is applied to.

Clear tint on the windows (provided it's on the interior) will be a softer surface for the sound to hit, as well as a slightly malliable surface, thus a naturally better absorber of the sound. I'm not saying the absorption coefficient would be terribly high, but it would help.


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> My car has the deadest interior I've been in (not been in a lot mind you)
> 
> Echo decay is incredible.. hard surface reflections minimal (there's still glass) and I haven't even covered the door cards yet.. (my non-scientific observation)
> 
> ...



I don't doubt that you have a very dead sounding interior, your headliner, pillars, door acents, and I'm sure other sections all have shag carpeting. The ballpark absorption coefficient of heavy carpeting is ~0.7 for frequencies 1kHz and up. That's almost the level of performance of materials specifically designed to absorb sound like open cell foam, rigid fiberglass, etc... (most score above 1.0 for that range of frequencies, but 70% isn't far off - it is a linear scale of coefficients).


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> edit... Doh...nevermind, answered my own quesiton..lol.


Glad ya posted Aaron, I love your shag pillars... but a bit much for the truck. Lol

Was your choice in materiel just your style, or you found it had better function in killing reflections?


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

jcollin76 said:


> Glad ya posted Aaron, I love your shag pillars... but a bit much for the truck. Lol
> 
> Was your choice in materiel just your style, or you found it had better function in killing reflections?


I totally think you could pull off shag in the Truck man


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

stochastic said:


> I don't doubt that you have a very dead sounding interior, your headliner, pillars, door acents, and I'm sure other sections all have shag carpeting. The ballpark absorption coefficient of heavy carpeting is ~0.7 for frequencies 1kHz and up. That's almost the level of performance of materials specifically designed to absorb sound like open cell foam, rigid fiberglass, etc... (most score above 1.0 for that range of frequencies, but 70% isn't far off - it is a linear scale of coefficients).


Yeah, I realize the numbers I'm getting aren't great, but it all adds up.. 

Again, non-scientific observation here, no measurments of any sort... 

I've even got holes in my treatment (doors/side panels not MLVed)

It's just pretty interesting to be able to notice the change from my car to others..


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Stoph said:


> I totally think you could pull off shag in the Truck man


Lol i dont know man.... but id try it.







Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Yeah, I realize the numbers I'm getting aren't great, but it all adds up..
> 
> Again, non-scientific observation here, no measurments of any sort...
> 
> ...


I appreciate people that know the numbers, and the technical ramifications, but I'm not at that level with this project. Lol

Like you, I just enjoy the quiet and notice the difference. I imagine if I busted out the rta, I'd probably be disappointed in how little change is there... but, maybe not.


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

jcollin76 said:


> Lol i dont know man.... but id try it.


Think I would be scared to sit in your truck after that ...

On a new side note after reading this I have a few things I might want to give a shot at trying on mine as well lol


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Stoph said:


> Think I would be scared to sit in your truck after that ...
> 
> On a side note after reading this I have a few things I might want to give a shot at trying on mine as well lol


Nah, you'd only have to worry if I had the "bow-chic-a-wah-wow" music going. Lol


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Nah, you'd only have to worry if I had the "bow-chic-a-wah-wow" music going. Lol


I certainly have that going in my car with the pillars. 


Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Stoph said:


> I totally think you could pull off shag in the Truck man


Anybody can pull off the shag, with the right "give a ****" attitude... don't like it I could give a ****.. :laugh:



jcollin76 said:


> Lol i dont know man.... but id try it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's hard to say, I didn't test as I added things, I just wanted to get it done... sooooo much time... 



Stoph said:


> Think I would be scared to sit in your truck after that ...
> 
> On a new side note after reading this I have a few things I might want to give a shot at trying on mine as well lol


Don't fear the shag.... Chics LOVE it.... (I know, not a chic)



jcollin76 said:


> Nah, you'd only have to worry if I had the "bow-chic-a-wah-wow" music going. Lol


 
See above... :laugh:


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Glad ya posted Aaron, I love your shag pillars... but a bit much for the truck. Lol
> 
> Was your choice in materiel just your style, or you found it had better function in killing reflections?


Thanks

It was part style, I don't see anyone coming close to this... most of my "subaru" people give me grief for it.. :laugh:

Keeps me squarely outside of the box.. 

I also thought of outdoor mics and how they usually have a big fuzzy sock on them WITH foam underneith to control wind noise... (knowing that MOST noise passes though)

I had a bunch of SS Overkill (and pro) to use... 

An idea was born... 



Side benifit is it was SUPER easy to work with, covers mishaps and BS rather well... You can't tell I have molded ridges in the rear deck cover I built... 



W/Overkill


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> I certainly have that going in my car with the pillars.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


I dont know man, I get more of the Star Wars theme looking at those wookies... er, I mean pillars. Lol







Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Anybody can pull off the shag, with the right "give a ****" attitude... don't like it I could give a ****.. :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but I got one " chic " I need to keep marginally happy... to keep MY life happy. 
She's gives me a lot of creative room, but... lol

If I was planning to compete, sure I'd test and crunch numbers. But I'm just not worried about it. However, I understand guys at that level wanting/ needing hard data to justify the efforts.

Me, I want some busy work related to my truck and audio. That's all...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Did I mention it's like the softest thing you've ever felt, most want to crawl in and go to sleep.... 











My brother (funny ass dude) said he was going to take leftovers and make a thong out of them.... I said "man, the wife will love that" ... He said "screw the wife"....


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Damn your trunk too?! Lol now that's over the top, but cool!

I'm leaning towards foam and suede, and cloth and suede. I have a two tone interior that I kinda want to preserve. Just convert to a more "acoustic friendly" materials.

Lol nothing like a shag banana hammock!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

It's a "crossover".... performance/show/audio... the whole bag..


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

Do they make a suede that's actually stretchy enough like grille cloth etc?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Stoph said:


> Do they make a suede that's actually stretchy enough like grille cloth etc?


 
Good question.. Various microfiber suedes maybe... I've got like 4-5yds of black microfiber suede that doesn't stretch well at all.. 

A steamer would help a lot too...


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

I was thinking suede in the large flatter surfaces... maybe headliner material. Then just the suede for more convoluted shapes. Grill cloth and foam for the really tough stuff.

Won't know till I try. Lol

Probably be using what I can get here...

http://www.yourautotrim.com/


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Stoph said:


> Do they make a suede that's actually stretchy enough like grille cloth etc?


Yes,a company does make it bc covered all my panels and the dash mat for my lancer in it.problem is now,the company I got it from ,Acousticmac, changed suppliers so they no longer carry it and the replacement stuff is worse than stuff you get at Joanne fabrics. They've refused to tell me who their supplier was for the other stuff and I have asked some upholstery shops and they said they can't get anything like it
But it was awesome!very suede like texture and appearance and I could wrap a basketball with it.


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

Mic10is said:


> Yes,a company does make it bc covered all my panels and the dash mat for my lancer in it.problem is now,the company I got it from ,Acousticmac, changed suppliers so they no longer carry it and the replacement stuff is worse than stuff you get at Joanne fabrics. They've refused to tell me who their supplier was for the other stuff and I have asked some upholstery shops and they said they can't get anything like it
> But it was awesome!very suede like texture and appearance and I could wrap a basketball with it.


Acoustic Fabric | Castielle Suede | Acoustic Fabric by the Yard

Is that the new stuff they carry now? Funny they list it as Excellent stretch quality fabric ...


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Stoph said:


> Acoustic Fabric | Castielle Suede | Acoustic Fabric by the Yard
> 
> Is that the new stuff they carry now? Funny they list it as Excellent stretch quality fabric ...


Nice find man


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Stoph said:


> Acoustic Fabric | Castielle Suede | Acoustic Fabric by the Yard
> 
> Is that the new stuff they carry now? Funny they list it as Excellent stretch quality fabric ...


 
That's a "keeper" regardless.. :laugh:


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Stoph said:


> Acoustic Fabric | Castielle Suede | Acoustic Fabric by the Yard
> 
> Is that the new stuff they carry now? Funny they list it as Excellent stretch quality fabric ...


Its garbage imo.it isn't like suede at all. More like moleskin or velveteen. Has minal stretch in one direction.almost none in the other. Fine for wrapping flat panels w no curves like most home panels. Not good for conforming to curves like car panels

I got 5yds of that garbage and it wasn't returnable. I think I did some flat panels with it


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

What about cutting a 12x12x24 bass absorber in half long ways and putting it under your dash on both sides? Like these:

Acoustical Foam Panels

I'm not sure what all this would help with, but they are pretty thick so I would imagine they would absorb a TON of frequencies.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

Doh!

I didn't even see that they already have a 6x6x24" bass absorber too that you wouldn't have to cut in half... I think I may try this. I don't think you would even see them under my dash area on both sides... couldn't hurt anything anyway I don't think... will let you all know if they did anything once I get them.

Acoustical Studio Foam - Bass Trap/Absorber 24" x 6" x 6" (2 pack)


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Mic10is said:


> Its garbage imo.it isn't like suede at all. More like moleskin or velveteen. Has minal stretch in one direction.almost none in the other. Fine for wrapping flat panels w no curves like most home panels. Not good for conforming to curves like car panels
> 
> I got 5yds of that garbage and it wasn't returnable. I think I did some flat panels with it


 
Removing link fom faves.. :laugh:


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## kmarei (Nov 13, 2009)

i've had a lot of success with thick velour curtains


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Anyone have experience with the faux suede from Yourautotrim.com?

I purchased some GM match vinyl from them, and it was dead on (light cashmere).


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

ScottyGreen said:


> Doh!
> 
> I didn't even see that they already have a 6x6x24" bass absorber too that you wouldn't have to cut in half... I think I may try this. I don't think you would even see them under my dash area on both sides... couldn't hurt anything anyway I don't think... will let you all know if they did anything once I get them.
> 
> Acoustical Studio Foam - Bass Trap/Absorber 24" x 6" x 6" (2 pack)


Those traps are made from open cell foam. Great acoustically, but they absorb moisture like a sponge. I'd be pretty hesitant to put them in my car. Go for rigid fiberglass instead.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

stochastic said:


> Those traps are made from open cell foam. Great acoustically, but they absorb moisture like a sponge. I'd be pretty hesitant to put them in my car. Go for rigid fiberglass instead.


While I don't disagree with you, I think its dependent on where the foam will be used. Floor, in or on doors, I agree with you. But other, more interior locations, wouldn't be so bad. 

The only real problem would be spilled drinks and the like. But if I'm (or anyone else) going through the lengths of putting suede and acoustic treatments in, we're probably going to have pretty tight control of that.


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> While I don't disagree with you, I think its dependent on where the foam will be used. Floor, in or on doors, I agree with you. But other, more interior locations, wouldn't be so bad.
> 
> The only real problem would be spilled drinks and the like. But if I'm (or anyone else) going through the lengths of putting suede and acoustic treatments in, we're probably going to have pretty tight control of that.


Well my concern is ambient moisture. A car is exposed to the elements and it can get pretty moisture rich in the air. Condensation on the windshield will likely fall below the dash at some point.

I also live in a rainforest here in Vancouver, so my concern in a bit stronger than others might need. Iowa might be nice and dry. If I was in Pheonix I'd be much more concerned about the heat stability of that foam. Essentially the foam isn't designed to be exposed to the elements so one needs to take into consideration the elements the product is exposed to...


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

stochastic said:


> Well my concern is ambient moisture. A car is exposed to the elements and it can get pretty moisture rich in the air. Condensation on the windshield will likely fall below the dash at some point.
> 
> I also live in a rainforest here in Vancouver, so my concern in a bit stronger than others might need. Iowa might be nice and dry. If I was in Pheonix I'd be much more concerned about the heat stability of that foam. Essentially the foam isn't designed to be exposed to the elements so one needs to take into consideration the elements the product is exposed to...


I am not sure this as much of an issue as you think. If it was, your entire interior would be rotted by now. I think that the issue is not the foam itself, but crap that might get on or in the foam. So if you are spraying organic material around like food, soft drinks, bodily fluids (aw man i shot﻿ Marvin in the face) then there might be concern.

I wouldn't put it under my feet or on the dash top or center console, but it should be ok in most places.

If you do get messy stuff on your acoustic material it would be nice to be able to take it off, hose it down, and let it dry. So if that is built into the design, I don't think there would be much issue even if you have made such a mess that you have to go inside, chill out and wait for the Wolf.

IMO, UV is way more of a concern.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

The bass absorbers will go under the cars dash and after measuring you won't be able to see them nor hit them with feet even. There is a large area on both sides (chrysler 300) the drivers side will be a little trickier but quite doable.

I'm not too concerned about moisture, seats have foam inside and there is foam under the carpet so I'm not too scared of anything being tucked up under the dash getting moisture.

I'll let you know once they arrive and I have installed them... I'm hoping to make my midwoofers as clean sounding as possible. They already sound pretty darn good actually, but just curious as to what they do since they are pretty cheap and won't be seen.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Sounds good, keep us posted.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

It is very possible to make a car too "dead"
reflections help sound. so many people think that they are evil and the cause of bad sound, but in reality reflections is what gives us a sense of space.

Andy at JBL has made several posts about this in other topics.

so its a matter of determining of determining areas where reflections may be causing an issue and either absorbing or dissipating them but leaving other areas untreated.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> It is very possible to make a car too "dead"
> reflections help sound. so many people think that they are evil and the cause of bad sound, but in reality reflections is what gives us a sense of space.
> 
> Andy at JBL has made several posts about this in other topics.
> ...


This coming from a guy who's car is what... 98% treated? 

But, I have heard that. But determining what is a problem, and what isn't would require testing. May just have to get the rta out. Lol 
initially I just want to treat panels adjacent to the pillars and kicks.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> This coming from a guy who's car is what... 98% treated?
> 
> But, I have heard that. But determining what is a problem, and what isn't would require testing. May just have to get the rta out. Lol
> initially I just want to treat panels adjacent to the pillars and kicks.


I treated or covered hard services immediately around the speakers or in the direct path of the speaker.
in the case with the center console--I ran horns in my BMW and reflection off the console made it seem like the left side image was 1.5" inside the pillar. simply putting fabric over it, helped it stay at the pillar. covering it with foam moved the boundary slightly outside the pillar.

Rear treatments in that car are all window coverings. hard surfaces still remain. Doors werent recovered, but there are parts , like the map pockets where I did something to diffuse sound to prevent reflections.

underdash panels were to absorb reflections from kick panels.helped with stage height. using too thick a material, anything over 2" kills stage height bc it starts to absorb too much high frequency info in the 1.6-3.2 region.



I have yet to ever take measurements to see if there is a measurable difference.
Maybe in this new Install I will do it and post any results


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Hope ya don't think I was digging at ya. Not at all! Lol
If your familiar with the new silverado, its a tall dash and shallow footwell. My goal is to get as much direct sound from the kick, while limiting any chaos down there. 
The ltz also has a large center console that will be getting nailed by the kick, and door mounted mb/Sub. Toss in some widebanders in the pillars too. Lol

I got a lot going on!

I don't plan on treating anything that's not directly inline with a driver, like you suggested.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Hope ya don't think I was digging at ya. Not at all! Lol
> If your familiar with the new silverado, its a tall dash and shallow footwell. My goal is to get as much direct sound from the kick, while limiting any chaos down there.
> The ltz also has a large center console that will be getting nailed by the kick, and door mounted mb/Sub. Toss in some widebanders in the pillars too. Lol
> 
> ...


Not at all, i was just explaining there was some thought into why I did what I did....and despite all that, there was no dynamat or dampening done in my BMW. Germans do a good job already.

take measurements when u do yours, Id be curious to see the results as well


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Lol will do!


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> This coming from a guy who's car is what... 98% treated?
> 
> But, I have heard that. But determining what is a problem, and what isn't would require testing. May just have to get the rta out. Lol
> initially I just want to treat panels adjacent to the pillars and kicks.


I wouldn't use an RTA to test these issues. Use your ears.  If your space sounds too dead chances are you would prefer some hard surface treatments and you want to remove the soft absorption areas. In your original post you claimed you enjoyed the effect of covering hard surfaces and making the space softer - sounds like you didn't need an RTA for the conclusion.

To truly model acoustic properties of cars takes silly complex equations. The info gained from an RTA isn't terribly useful, or could be misguiding, unless all the complex equations are being looked at. Your ears understand the acoustic equations quite well, you just have to listen to them.



ScottyGreen said:


> The bass absorbers will go under the cars dash and after measuring you won't be able to see them nor hit them with feet even. There is a large area on both sides (chrysler 300) the drivers side will be a little trickier but quite doable.
> 
> I'm not too concerned about moisture, seats have foam inside and there is foam under the carpet so I'm not too scared of anything being tucked up under the dash getting moisture.
> 
> I'll let you know once they arrive and I have installed them... I'm hoping to make my midwoofers as clean sounding as possible. They already sound pretty darn good actually, but just curious as to what they do since they are pretty cheap and won't be seen.


I like this idea for cleaning up the midbass provided they're located in kicks or doors - though an a-pillar mount could find this trap usefull if the dash was perforated to allow sound absorption from above. That cavity might actually currently be creating an early echo delay in the midbass region. 

I plan on putting a bass trap behind the driver's side rear tire (beneath the stock interior pannel) right across from my subwoofer box on the passenger side rear tire. That way the room modes will be tamed slightly (hopefully).

I'd bet money the other foam in your car is closed cell foam - just sayin'. Though maybe I'm making too big a deal about the moisture issue.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Anyone have experience with the faux suede from Yourautotrim.com?
> 
> I purchased some GM match vinyl from them, and it was dead on (light cashmere).


I just got the suede headliner and its pretty decent.still very little stretch but enough to wrap a fairly flat headliner


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mic10is said:


> I just got the suede headliner and its pretty decent.still very little stretch but enough to wrap a fairly flat headliner


I can deal with pretty decent. Lol 
More comfortable ordering some now, thanks. I'll also order some plain suede from them... maybe it will have more stretching capability. When I get it, I'll report back.


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

So their headliner kits stretch more then the normal suede, well that's good to know 

Still wish I could find something better tho.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Just a couple small panels I've been working on. I'm no upholsterer... 

Started with the sails, doesn't get much easier than those. If I couldn't do them, no point trying other stuff. Like I said earlier, this was just to cover a previous tweeter install.








This is a cover panel forward of the center console. Figured it would maybe catch some from the kicks. This is Ensolite PS (1/8 ccf), then grill cloth.








First attempt at a little more difficult form. The shroud around the steering column is a clam shell, bottom was treated with Ensolite and cloth as its in direct line with the kicks.
Top side is just cloth for even cosmetics. Its snaps together solid, but has some gapping due to the cloth... there was NO room in the seam for it! Lol


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

Reminds me back in the days of mini trucks and wrapping the interiors in tweed


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Stoph said:


> Reminds me back in the days of mini trucks and wrapping the interiors in tweed


Lol your right, maybe why the look doesn't bother me so much.? Could I be dating myself, and not even know it?!

I think this is all I'm doing, until I order some suede. Lord knows I have more important stuff to finish, before I worry about this too much.

Was just a indoor/night project. Lol


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## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

eggs cartons work wonders in the doors...


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

abdulwq said:


> eggs cartons work wonders in the doors...


Styrofoam I assume? For breaking up the rear wave? Interesting... cool, cheap idea if they hold up well. 

However, I'm mainly looking at in cabin treatments.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

UPDATE ON BASS ABSORBERS:

I got the 6x6x24 bass absorbers in and installed. I cut one to approx 17" wide (long) for the pass side under dash. It friction fits horizontally into place and you can't even tell its there unless you squat down beside the open door and look forward. Doesn't hit my wife's feet either which is a bonus (she thinks I'm crazy enough as it is)

The driver side I had to cut into 2 pieces because of the brake and gas pedals. One of the pieces (brake piece) I just cut a slit/notch in and put it behind the brake pedal area and zip tied up so I don't have an accident should it fall down, and the other piece is between the gas and transmission tunnel. All pieces are up high under dash and as deep as they can go basically.

Listening impressions?

In order to really hear a distinct difference I had my daughter sit in pass side and while playing music had her reach down quickly and remove the pass side absorber and toss it on the back seat real quick (super scientific huh?!)

There WAS a noticeable difference! With the bass trap in place it removes some of that "echo" from the pass side midwoofer in the door and sounds "smoother" The sound is also less locatable if that makes sense. I think my ear picks up the slight echo or delay in sound that bounces around in that foot well area coming from the pass side midwoofer and helps to locate the sound source, but with it in place I can't seem to pin point the sound as easily. The midbass is more distinct. I think my stage actually stays more solid too with less left to right movement but I need to drive around more and listen for a few more days.

I'm installing a deh-80prs next and going active to help with another issue, but so far this has helped with my soundstage.

Overall it was a cheap investment and easy to do.
I got them here.
Acoustical Foam Panels


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Very cool!
But... I need to see some pics!
Keep us posted on if/ how your perception changes over time. With my mids in the kicks, ill be looking into this further, in the future.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Mic10is said:


> Not at all, i was just explaining there was some thought into why I did what I did....and despite all that, there was no dynamat or dampening done in my BMW. Germans do a good job already.
> 
> take measurements when u do yours, Id be curious to see the results as well


Don't BMWs have, like, 3" carpet pads in the floors? That much of anything will have a deadening effect


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

HondAudio said:


> Don't BMWs have, like, 3" carpet pads in the floors? That much of anything will have a deadening effect


Depends on which area
Floors are a combination of foam and styrofoam for some rigidity about 3" total.passenger side front floor is 4" of foam at its deepest point but thins to about 2" by tranny tunnel.
And my Ti has slightly less padding than my coupe which doesn't make sense bc its built on a sedan platform which imo should have more paddding


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Has anybody tried sensuede?
http://www.newtoto.com/hipeensu.html?gclid=CP-OmbigxLACFbEBQAodihJa3w


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

I know it might be a weight issue, but I was watching an epoisode of Flip this house and I guess they make sheet rock now that has dampening material built into it. They used it in a garage on the episode I had watched so that the owner could practice with his rock band and not disturb the neighbors. The houses were pretty close to each other too as it was a small neighborhood!


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Ultimateherts said:


> I know it might be a weight issue, but I was watching an epoisode of Flip this house and I guess they make sheet rock now that has dampening material built into it. They used it in a garage on the episode I had watched so that the owner could practice with his rock band and not disturb the neighbors. The houses were pretty close to each other too as it was a small neighborhood!


Lol that's pretty sweet... I need to finish my garage one of these days. May be an option, as long as its not priced outrageously. 
Not so good for the auto environment though.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Ultimateherts said:


> I know it might be a weight issue, but I was watching an epoisode of Flip this house and I guess they make sheet rock now that has dampening material built into it. They used it in a garage on the episode I had watched so that the owner could practice with his rock band and not disturb the neighbors. The houses were pretty close to each other too as it was a small neighborhood!


quietrock?

can't imagine using that in a car, unless the surface you're using it on (or the manner you use it) does not have any contours.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Crazy?!

How about my CLD treatment?
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...diy-vibration-damper-cld-tiles-real-time.html

The adhesive didn't end up holding up long, but the concept is sound. It works! With the right glue holding it together this is full proof!


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

This is all going in my dash tonight.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Fricasseekid said:


> Crazy?!
> 
> How about my CLD treatment?
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...diy-vibration-damper-cld-tiles-real-time.html
> ...


Yeah you got the corner covered on crazy. 
great info in that thread though! 


had forgotten about that one.




Brian_smith06 said:


> This is all going in my dash tonight.


Lol nice. I always see scrap foam, and think... where could I stuff that. 
I have a full size mattress topper cut, and stuffed in my dash too.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeah its amazing how something like this can make such a huge difference. I have some buzzing noise coming from my dash that I cannot figure out where its coming from! I'm stuffing this and wrapping what I can with some ccf to hopefully fix the problem.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Brian_smith06 said:


> Yeah its amazing how something like this can make such a huge difference. I have some buzzing noise coming from my dash that I cannot figure out where its coming from! I'm stuffing this and wrapping what I can with some ccf to hopefully fix the problem.


Had same thing happen to me. Lol didn't have my setup going yet... so that buzz liked to drive me crazy.

Found it was a friction clip on a panel. Put silicone where the clip mounted to the panel, and covered the receiving area with ccf. Cut a slit for the clip to go through... worked like a charm.
Every panel I remove gets silicone on the clips now!


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

jcollin76 said:


> Has anybody tried sensuede?
> SENSUEDE Retail $79.90 for $19.98


I'm very interested in this if anybody has info on it?




jcollin76 said:


> Had same thing happen to me. Lol didn't have my setup going yet... so that buzz liked to drive me crazy.
> 
> Found it was a friction clip on a panel. Put silicone where the clip mounted to the panel, and covered the receiving area with ccf. Cut a slit for the clip to go through... worked like a charm.
> Every panel I remove gets silicone on the clips now!


I like the way you think. That may have to happen too!


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

I ordered a couple samples... more for color than anything. Tough to tell any properties like stretch from a small section. 
It'd be nice if somebody has tried covering something with it, and can say if it's worth a crap.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

I would love my a pillars in something like that. Def keep us posted on how well you like/dislike it. The price makes it very appealing


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Brian_smith06 said:


> I would love my a pillars in something like that. Def keep us posted on how well you like/dislike it. The price makes it very appealing


I agree, and I will.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Anywho back on topic I suppose. Stuff I have done to help with noise in my car. 

Hmm where to begin?
Doors
I have approximately 40-50 square feet of deadener in each door. (4 layers under each mid) Mostly raammat in them. followed by 2 layers of ccf on the outer skin and a layer on the inner skin. Along with a single layer of luxury liner pro. These poor doors are heavy! Oh and the door panel has 1-2 layers of deadener followed by ccf. Each rod was also wrapped in flex loom and then ccf ziptied around them.


Cabin area
1-2 layers over everything including firewall followed by a layer (2 in some) of luxury liner pro. I even did a layer on the inner and outer skin of rear quarter panel with a lot of foam as well. I unfortunately have not done headliner yet. I'm waiting until I can wrap in suede before I pull it out. 

Trunk
Single layer of damplifier pro throughout with 3 layers on rear deck. I followed up with a gallon of spectrum here. Oh and deck lid has 3 layers as well.

Underneath/wheel well
Underneath the car I sprayed everything with 2 gallons of spectrum. I also did a layer of damplifier pro in the wheel wells followed by more spectrum. I'm waiting until the next time I go to my dads shop to install a layer of luxury liner pro in each wheel well. I still get more road noise than I care to have.

Hood.
Did a layer of damplifier pro on the hood with a sheet of thermal block over that. 

Yes I know everything I did was excessive and overkill but let's face it. That's sort of the nature of the beast with this hobby


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

The single best thing Ive ever done to my doors was my own custom _angled_ baffles. My goal was to get my 6.5 more on axis in their lower door location. Not only did they sound much better being more on axis, but ALL door resonance was eliminated.

This "side affect" wasnt even part of my plan, but after thinking about it, it makes perfect sense. When you have a speaker cone mounted parallel to the door skin, vibrations are easily transmitted, but when the cone is mounted at an angle to the skin, not so much. 

I tested it out playing songs that used to vibrate the heck out of my doors, but simply swapping baffles made a HUGE difference!

The baffles I made slope from 2.75" thick to only 1/4" thick. I simply glued (4) .75" rings together then cut them down at an angle to form 2 perfect baffles.

For $22 spent on ebay mdf rings, the results are truly amazing!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Any ideas how to quiet down the roar of the HVAC blower that's behind the dash? I think there's this huge cavity around the top of the unit, and there might be a second flap that opens at higher fan speeds to let more air into the system, and it sounds like it's coming from behind and under the passenger's airbag - very annoying.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

HondAudio said:


> Any ideas how to quiet down the roar of the HVAC blower that's behind the dash? I think there's this huge cavity around the top of the unit, and there might be a second flap that opens at higher fan speeds to let more air into the system, and it sounds like it's coming from behind and under the passenger's airbag - very annoying.


Not sure about that one. I know that applying cld to the outside of the ducting help with some of the drone. 

Maybe some MLV on the inside of panels that surround the blower would tame it. I wouldn't want to put anything directly around the blower though. 

To those interested in the sensude, I got my samples today. Tried to take some pics of the texture it has...








































Overall, its a very nice sturdy feeling material. Soft feel, no backing, and feels like it might have a "mild" stretching ability.. but nothing great. 

One side has a more refined texture, but its very similar on both.
It also cuts very cleanly with scissors or blade, no raveling or chunking up.

I can't compare to other synthetics like ultra.. I haven't used them before. But in researching, this is priced as much, or more than ultra suede. We could hope its on par with the quality of ultra. However, for the price I think its quite nice. Probably order a couple yards and see how it does wrapping panels.


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## 000zero (Mar 12, 2011)

I like the idea of glassing the dash to get a template then putting some foam then material of some sort. The only thing stopping me is the passenger side airbag I can't help but think if I get into an accident and the airbag deploys, my passenger is basically sitting in front of a claymore that will shoot fiberglass everywhere. Has anyone had to deal with this?


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

000zero said:


> I live the idea of glassing the dash to get a template then putting some foam then material of some sort. The only thing stopping me is the passenger side airbag I can't help but think if I get into an accident and the airbag deploys, my passenger is basically sitting in front of a claymore that will shoot fiberglass everywhere. Has anyone had to deal with this?


Don't glass that area. Leave it open but have the foam ( double up foam to keep the same height) and material cover the area. Cut it on the front and sides like dash mats do, leaving the side near the windshield connected. 
Wouldn't be any more obstruction to the air bag then a dash mat.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Filling my trunk lid with Spectrum liquid did a great job with a typically difficult area... Full gallon used in this lid.. (IB subs) 





























It's roughly 1/8-1/4" thick over the entire outer surface of the lid, capturing the sheet metal TO the frame over the entire surface it touches, rather than the 10 places it was glued...


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Was gonna ask how you got it in there... then I noticed the funnel. 

You foamed your lid, didn't you?
Was this in place of, or addition to the spray foam?


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

ultimateherts said:


> I know it might be a weight issue, but I was watching an epoisode of Flip this house and I guess they make sheet rock now that has dampening material built into it. They used it in a garage on the episode I had watched so that the owner could practice with his rock band and not disturb the neighbors. The houses were pretty close to each other too as it was a small neighborhood!.







bikinpunk said:


> quietrock?
> 
> can't imagine using that in a car, unless the surface you're using it on (or the manner you use it) does not have any contours.


What I was thinking was more or less for use on the floor.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Was gonna ask how you got it in there... then I noticed the funnel.
> 
> You foamed your lid, didn't you?
> Was this in place of, or addition to the spray foam?




No the lid, didn't need it... 

Did the rockers and all long the lower extremes of the car... pretty much the areas I coudn't get deadening into, so I got isolation of sorts..


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Got the sensuede in today. Figured I'd do a simple panel to see how it is. 








Turned out pretty good, I think.

It stretches around corners okay, but I wouldn't say its a strong point. 

Feels nice, good thickness to it. I'm pretty pleased with it. Well, until I try wrapping something more difficult.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Nice, did you put anything under it? 

I'd a put 1/8" CCF under.. lol..


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

jcollin76 said:


> Got the sensuede in today. Figured I'd do a simple panel to see how it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks good. Does it do that thing that regular suede does, where if you brush it in a certain direction, you see streaks, but if you smooth it in the other direction, the surface looks undisturbed?

It's a difficult way to ask - but I think you know what I mean


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Nice, did you put anything under it?
> 
> I'd a put 1/8" CCF under.. lol..


Lol, that was the plan. Have a good amount of ensolite peel and stick. I just had reservations about its sticking power with suede on it. 

But your right... i was in a hurry to try out the sensuede. 







HondAudio said:


> Looks good. Does it do that thing that regular suede does, where if you brush it in a certain direction, you see streaks, but if you smooth it in the other direction, the surface looks undisturbed?
> 
> It's a difficult way to ask - but I think you know what I mean


 yeah, I know what your meaning. And yes, it has all those qualities! It really is a very nice texture. My only worry is it's limited stretch... but so far, so good.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

jcollin76 said:


> Lol, that was the plan. Have a good amount of ensolite peel and stick. I just had reservations about its sticking power with suede on it.
> 
> But your right... i was in a hurry to try out the sensuede.
> 
> ...


I was interested because there's a scratch on my glovebox door, and I thought I might cover the whole thing with some kind of material for a pinch of "dress-up". I don't know if I can do it on the driver's side, though, because there's no panel seams in convenient places to tuck it into :surprised:

Fun Fact: Alcantara "suede"... is not actually suede; it's a synthetic:

Alcantara (material) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

What's the acoustic goal of that sensuede wrap?


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

HondAudio said:


> I was interested because there's a scratch on my glovebox door, and I thought I might cover the whole thing with some kind of material for a pinch of "dress-up". I don't know if I can do it on the driver's side, though, because there's no panel seams in convenient places to tuck it into :surprised:
> 
> Fun Fact: Alcantara "suede"... is not actually suede; it's a synthetic:
> 
> Alcantara (material) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Lol yes, I'm aware it's synthetic. I couldn't afford, nor do I want the real stuff. The sensuede is made from recycled poly if I'm not mistaken. 






stochastic said:


> What's the acoustic goal of that sensuede wrap?


Well, for me its twofold. I like the look and feel of it, and its a good project for me.
Acoustic goal is to hopefully soften the reflections some in the cabin. Surely the texture of it would be slightly less reflective than a hard plastic panel.

If not, it'll still look and feel nice.


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> Well, for me its twofold. I like the look and feel of it, and its a good project for me.
> Acoustic goal is to hopefully soften the reflections some in the cabin. Surely the texture if it would be slightly less reflective than a hard plastic panel.
> 
> If not, it'll still look and feel nice.


What frequency range are you looking to deal with? You don't have tweets down in your kicks or doors do you? I doubt the sensuede alone will have much mid or low freq absorption or diffusion properties.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

stochastic said:


> What frequency range are you looking to deal with? You don't have tweets down in your kicks or doors do you? I doubt the sensuede alone will have much mid or low freq absorption or diffusion properties.


Not any particular frequency I'm looking at really. I'm not to the level of trying to address it specifically with treatments.

This is first, and foremost, a busy project for me. Showing my truck a lil love, if you will. 
But, if in the process we can get good discussion about it, and highlight materials and technique for others... bonus! 
Any subsequent panels will have foam backing behind the suede. But I also don't feel all the panels need the bulk of the foam. But I can still continue the theme with just the suede over the panel.


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't think ensolite or CCF would be the best foam for such a task. There are some much more absorbent foams and composites on the market, though the sensuede might not let too much acoustic energy through anyway.

The panel does look nice with the sensuede wrap, but I just wanted to point out that it's probably not going to change your acoustics very much.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

stochastic said:


> I don't think ensolite or CCF would be the best foam for such a task. There are some much more absorbent foams and composites on the market, though the sensuede might not let too much acoustic energy through anyway.
> 
> The panel does look nice with the sensuede wrap, but I just wanted to point out that it's probably not going to change your acoustics very much.


Okay, thanks. My heart isn't going to be broken if I can't tell a difference. 

But a part of me says that it will have a little bit of softening effect. I look at it as a bare room with hardwood floors. Put some carpet and drapes in there, it changes the acoustics. You lessen that echo that was there.
Soften hard panels, dash mat, plush seat covers, etc... the cumulation has to change the acoustics, and reflective potential some.


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## stochastic (Jan 24, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> Okay, thanks. My heart isn't going to be broken if I can't tell a difference.
> 
> But a part of me says that it will have a little bit of softening effect. I look at it as a bare room with hardwood floors. Put some carpet and drapes in there, it changes the acoustics. You lessen that echo that was there.
> Soften hard panels, dash mat, plush seat covers, etc... the cumulation has to change the acoustics, and reflective potential some.


This is a good train of logic to take. However in practical terms, the material you're using will likely only attenuate reflections in the 3kHz+ range. If you ray-trace reflections off that particular section of the car from your tweeter you'll probably find they hit many soft surfaces before reaching your ear. I don't know where your tweet is mounted so I can't say for sure.

I'm not trying to insult your mod, just trying to educate so that your future mods can be well designed.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

jcollin76 said:


> Okay, thanks. My heart isn't going to be broken if I can't tell a difference.
> 
> But a part of me says that it will have a little bit of softening effect. I look at it as a bare room with hardwood floors. Put some carpet and drapes in there, it changes the acoustics. You lessen that echo that was there.
> Soften hard panels, dash mat, plush seat covers, etc... the cumulation has to change the acoustics, and reflective potential some.


This is true. My room at my fraternity house was basically a concrete cube. It wasn't perfect, as there were a couple of recessed, door-less closet areas on one wall, and another wall had a low cabinet/desk and some shelves hung from midway up the wall to the ceiling, but everything else was a hard, reflective surface - cinderblock walls, a flat ceiling [with popcorn texture!] and a linoleum floor.

If you stood in the 'naked' room and did something as simple as clapping your hands, the slap echo was actually a bit painful :surprised:

Once I had some indoor/outdoor carpet and some furniture in there, however, the echoes went away. I also covered two cinderblock walls with reed fending, to turn my room into _The Bamboo Lounge._ 

Now, then, about that Sensuede: do you know what the pricing is per yard?


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

HondAudio said:


> This is true. My room at my fraternity house was basically a concrete cube. It wasn't perfect, as there were a couple of recessed, door-less closet areas on one wall, and another wall had a low cabinet/desk and some shelves hung from midway up the wall to the ceiling, but everything else was a hard, reflective surface - cinderblock walls, a flat ceiling [with popcorn texture!] and a linoleum floor.
> 
> If you stood in the 'naked' room and did something as simple as clapping your hands, the slap echo was actually a bit painful :surprised:
> 
> ...


Copied from my build log. 

It was like $19.95 a yard where I got it. When I was researching it, was just as expensive, or more than ultra suede. So I was happy with the price. Lol other places had it at like $60 - $70 a yard! ￼

http://www.newtoto.com/hipeensu.html?gclid=CPyB4IuxzLACFQZtKgodWTfXVg
Shipping was fast too. Ordered Monday, and got it this morning. Not bad!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

jcollin76 said:


> Copied from my build log.
> 
> It was like $19.95 a yard where I got it. When I was researching it, was just as expensive, or more than ultra suede. So I was happy with the price. Lol other places had it at like $60 - $70 a yard! ￼
> 
> ...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Copied from my build log.
> 
> It was like $19.95 a yard where I got it. When I was researching it, was just as expensive, or more than ultra suede. So I was happy with the price. Lol other places had it at like $60 - $70 a yard! ￼
> 
> ...


Excuse me if it's in here somewhere, but how does that stuff stretch? 

I've got like 4-5yd of some AMAZING microfiber suede, that doesn't stretch for ****...


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Excuse me if it's in here somewhere, but how does that stuff stretch?
> 
> I've got like 4-5yd of some AMAZING microfiber suede, that doesn't stretch for ****...


Meh... very minimal. Had a colossal fail with it last night. Trying to do my door card, my vocabulary was stretching pretty far...


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

stochastic said:


> This is a good train of logic to take. However in practical terms, the material you're using will likely only attenuate reflections in the 3kHz+ range. If you ray-trace reflections off that particular section of the car from your tweeter you'll probably find they hit many soft surfaces before reaching your ear. I don't know where your tweet is mounted so I can't say for sure.
> 
> I'm not trying to insult your mod, just trying to educate so that your future mods can be well designed.



Suggestions, then, as to what material to use with kickpanel mounted tweeter and mids? I too was thinking of using suede or other fabric ,that is acoustically 
transparent, with sound absorbing material underneath. Foam? What type? How thick?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Meh... very minimal. Had a colossal fail with it last night. Trying to do my door card, my vocabulary was stretching pretty far...


 
Sounds like me when I opened the roll when it came in the mail... first thing I did was try and stretch it... happy.... NOT...


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

As long as we're discussing "stretchiness", who sells a good stretch carpet for my amp rack/subwoofer? Walmart sells rolls of black carpet with a light backing: 36"x72" for $8.96. I won't have to pay shipping because I can buy it about a mile away; just tax.

Crutchfield is wildly overpriced, but how about Parts Express? I can get it via Amazon and not have to pay out of pocket.

Does the Parts Express carpet stretch enough that I can glue, tuck, and staple it without any problems?


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

Not sure if this is along the same vein that you are on, but I had good luck using the padded headliner material on my fiberglassed a-pillars. had enough stretch to form around the curves and looked pretty good when completed.


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## Machine7 (Nov 17, 2010)

If you want to check how much moisture is trapped by open cell foam or any other material- maybe put some different ones in a bathroom during a hot shower with no exhaust running. See him much moisture it absorbs compared to a towel. 
Or set up a humidifier in there...


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