# Reference Quality Commercial Recordings



## Buzzman

Many forum members often ask for recommendations of reference quality recordings for demo purposes, and I came across an excellent list of recommendations that I want to share. This list is compiled not by an audiophile listener, but by John Vestman, one of the most respected recording engineers in the business. He states the *technical* reasons why these particular recordings stand out, and offers these recordings as a primer on engineering excellence to the aspiring or working recording engineer. I have many of these recordings and can attest to the qualities he cites. There is something here for just about everyone's taste in popular music, plus you can get most of these recordings really cheap on Amazon.com. Awesome stuff. 

Examples of Great Sounding Commercial CDs


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## onebadmonte

Thanks for the link. Very informative site there.


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## ryan s

Juice Newton is on that list :laugh: 

Sweet link! I have a bunch of albums on that list and they are pretty good to play


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## Apothacon

thx buzzman, great post... for anyone into pro-audio the rest of the sight has some really great info


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## Buzzman

You are all welcome! Yes, it's a great site. There is much to be learned from the information provided which will aid one's appreciation/knowledge of recorded music, especially the tutorials on "Compression" and "What to Expect From Mastering." Highly recommended reading.


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## nirschl

Great link! Much appreciated! I enjoyed the reading on the rest of the site as well. 

I own a lot of those albums as well. A few of which I was a bit embarrassed to own....but now have a new outlook!


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## Buzzman

nirschl said:


> Great link! Much appreciated! I enjoyed the reading on the rest of the site as well.
> 
> I own a lot of those albums as well. A few of which I was a bit embarrassed to own....but now have a new outlook!


I'm glad you found it useful. It's nice to read about recording technique and quality from someone who is in the studio doing it. I hear you about some of those albums. In some cases the music may not be the most compelling, but it's nice to have benchmarks with which to judge those recordings where the music and sound quality coalesce.


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## cheesehead

Very Nice...Thanks much!


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## pjhabit

Here's a few more links you might like... 
Honor Roll of Dynamic Recordings
Dynamic Range Database
Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


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## Buzzman

pjhabit said:


> Here's a few more links you might like...
> Honor Roll of Dynamic Recordings
> Dynamic Range Database
> Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


Hey, excellent additions to this thread! Thanks. I have many of the recordings on the Honor Roll, and learned about some others I will definitely seek out to add to my collection. You cannot go wrong with any Steely Dan or Donald Fagen recording. These guys were anal compulsive when it came to their work and how it was put on tape. I believe Roger Nichols did the sound engineering work on all of their recordings. Records engineered by Bill Schnee and Al Schmitt are usually a good bet to put a smile on your face. Notice also the dominance of recordings mastered by Doug Sax, Bernie Grundman, Bob Ludwig and Bob Katz. Hint, hint when looking for great sounding recordings. Let's hope they passed on their skills to some of the younger generation. And, check out the copyright dates on most of those recordings. It certainly confirms that old farts like me grew up listening to music when sound quality was the premium. Hmmm. Is that why you don't see us at SPL events?  

Bringing to the surface the debate over the "loudness" of most modern recordings (which is often misconstrued for dynamic) and the resultant deficiencies in sound quality is a good thing, and is something that should be discussed more often in real depth here because full enjoyment of our hobby is not just about the equipment. It all starts with the music, which is the source of any real pleasure we get when listening to our systems.


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## Torquem

I can't believe GWAR didnt make the list. Unbelievable.


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## pjhabit

Buzzman said:


> Hey, excellent additions to this thread! Thanks. I have many of the recordings on the Honor Roll, and learned about some others I will definitely seek out to add to my collection. You cannot go wrong with any Steely Dan or Donald Fagen recording. These guys were anal compulsive when it came to their work and how it was put on tape. I believe Roger Nichols did the sound engineering work on all of their recordings. Records engineered by Bill Schnee and Al Schmitt are usually a good bet to put a smile on your face. Notice also the dominance of recordings mastered by Doug Sax, Bernie Grundman, Bob Ludwig and Bob Katz. Hint, hint when looking for great sounding recordings. Let's hope they passed on their skills to some of the younger generation. And, check out the copyright dates on most of those recordings. It certainly confirms that old farts like me grew up listening to music when sound quality was the premium. Hmmm. Is that why you don't see us at SPL events?
> 
> Bringing to the surface the debate over the "loudness" of most modern recordings (which is often misconstrued for dynamic) and the resultant deficiencies in sound quality is a good thing, and is something that should be discussed more often in real depth here because full enjoyment of our hobby is not just about the equipment. It all starts with the music, which is the source of any real pleasure we get when listening to our systems.


Couldn't argee more...glad you liked em' :thumbsup:


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## jmontoya21

awesome post thanks


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## Notloudenuf

I have been looking for something like this since I read the Rolling Stone article "The Loudness Wars" 
Thank you for posting it. Hopefully I will understand it.


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## Bluenote

Buzzman, thanks for the references! I'd like to throw one of my favorites by a group called The Foreign Exchange - Album / Leave It All Behind produced by Nicolay. The Album is a hybrid of R&B and very tastefully done Hip/Hop. Very spacious and ethereal, good bass lines and voicing. Nicolay the producer, has a classical music background and you can hear those inflections in the instumentation. Great album! as a matter of fact all of his albums are good. 

Nicolay Music : Leave It All Behind


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## Buzzman

Bluenote said:


> Buzzman, thanks for the references! I'd like to throw one of my favorites by a group called The Foreign Exchange - Album / Leave It All Behind produced by Nicolay. The Album is a hybrid of R&B and very tastefully done Hip/Hop. Very spacious and ethereal, good bass lines and voicing. Nicolay the producer, has a classical music background and you can hear those inflections in the instumentation. Great album! as a matter of fact all of his albums are good.
> 
> Nicolay Music : Leave It All Behind


Bluenote, I love your user name. Since this thread is about reference recordings, it's a really relevant name as in the Jazz medium, Blue Note records and Rudy Van Gelder are responsible for some of the best sounding records around. I have several hundred Blue Note LPs dating back to the 1950's in my music collection. 

Thanks for the tip on Nicolay. I will have to check out this record. I have also found some reference quality recordings in the "World Music" genre. "Buena Vista Social Club," Hugh Masekela's "Hope," Gal Costa's "Plural" and Milton Nascimento's "Angelus" are four that I like quite a bit.


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## MarkZ

Yeah, but who would want to listen to any of that garbage?


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## Buzzman

This thread has me missing most of my reference recordings as with my upcoming move almost all of my records are in boxes. But, I went digging and a smile came across my face when I came across a couple that were within easy reach that deserve to be high on anyone's list of pop/rock recordings that should be considered "reference" quality:

Counting Crows, "August and Everything After" - The vocals have a bit too much sibilance for my taste, imparting a raspiness that I would have preferred not be there. But overall a very well balanced, spacious, dynamic record with bass/midbass to die for. Get this CD if you want to really "hear" something that often gets lost in most of today's popular music - articulate, clear bass. 

Phil Collins, "Face Value" - Just play "In The Air Tonight" and revel in the amazing dynamics as this track takes you from pianissimo to fortissimo with great ease.


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## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> Yeah, but who would want to listen to any of that garbage?


Thanks for your valuable contribution.  Please find another thread to pollute with your ignorance.


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## Bluenote

Buzzman, I chose Bluenote because of my affinity for Jazz and all things cool.  

You must have quite an impressive collection of Bluenote vinyl with all those boxes! I am hoping to audition more Jazz in my next SQ set up. My first set up was all Hertz and Audison and it was nice but at the time I was'nt really playing a lot of jazz in the car mostly in the house. Then I got the SQ bug 
( going on 2 years now ) and now I am planning a Morel Elate LE set with 2 Ultimos. I definitely plan to expand my music selections and get some better listening in this time around.  

I must add two more references : 

1. Jackson Conti/sujinho by MadLib! 

This is a BrazilianJazz project created by one of the most eclectic Jazz/HipHop producers out right now, combined with the percussionist from the brazilian jazz group Azymuth. A sleeper but funky funky funky! Definitely worth a listen... 

allmusic ((( Jackson Conti > Biography )))

2. Isaac Hayes Instrumentals! 

This is another sleeper...But so-so good. Isaac utilizes a full orchestra on most of the tracks. The tracks are from the 70's when he was at his apex and the quality of the recordings is very good IMO. For me...the key track on this album is "Pursuit of the Pimpmobile"  Yes! it is a pulsating track filled with horns, strings, cymbals, funky guitar, drums and a mean bass-line. 

Here's an Amazon link and reviews to those interested: 

Amazon.com: Instrumentals: Isaac Hayes: Music 
Bluenote


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## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> Thanks for your valuable contribution.  Please find another thread to pollute with your ignorance.


It's "ignorant" not to like any of that music? [I actually like "Sea Change", but whatever...]

I think you guys are doing things backwards. Audio systems are supposed to be the vehicle for listening to music that you like. Not the other way around! That's my contribution.


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## bassfromspace

MarkZ said:


> It's "ignorant" not to like any of that music? [I actually like "Sea Change", but whatever...]
> 
> I think you guys are doing things backwards. Audio systems are supposed to be the vehicle for listening to music that you like. Not the other way around! That's my contribution.


Agreed.


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## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> It's "ignorant" not to like any of that music? [I actually like "Sea Change", but whatever...]
> 
> I think you guys are doing things backwards. Audio systems are supposed to be the vehicle for listening to music that you like. Not the other way around! That's my contribution.


Clearly you do not comprehend the purpose of the thread, and your response demonstrates the ignorance to which I referred. I just never understand why people who have nothing substantive to add to a thread continually interject themselves into a dialogue that others find beneficial. I guess this is your way of jacking off.


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## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> Clearly you do not comprehend the purpose of the thread, and your response demonstrates the ignorance to which I referred.


Clearly.



> I just never understand why people who have nothing substantive to add to a thread continually interject themselves into a dialogue that others find beneficial. I guess this is your way of jacking off.


I didn't know it was a ****ing closed thread. I made a comment. Don't have a conniption.

Now go on and listen to your ****ty music. :laugh:


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## titansfan

Here are a couple that I just recently picked up:

Jeff Bradshaw- Bone Deep....nice horn work, clean bass, very clear recording.

Stereolab- Serene Veloctiy/A Stereolab Anthology...very interesting recording with a wide variety of instruments being utilized.

Walter Becker- 11 Tracks of Whack...good rookie recording from this ex-Steely Dan member. Produced by him and Donald Fagen.


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## Bluenote

To those who may know...

I am looking for a Steely Dan track that I heard a couple of years ago, it sounded fairly contemporary with an uptempo-calypso kind of beat to it. It was out of the norm from what I know about Steely Dan but it was still a great track!

Any references would be appreciated.

Bluenote


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## Buzzman

titansfan said:


> Here are a couple that I just recently picked up:
> 
> Jeff Bradshaw- Bone Deep....nice horn work, clean bass, very clear recording.
> 
> Stereolab- Serene Veloctiy/A Stereolab Anthology...very interesting recording with a wide variety of instruments being utilized.
> 
> Walter Becker- 11 Tracks of Whack...good rookie recording from this ex-Steely Dan member. Produced by him and Donald Fagen.


I know the Jeff Bradshaw record well. The Founder of that label, Hidden Beach Recordings, is a good friend of mine. They have made some good sounding records, but I wouldn't classify them as "reference" quality. I have the Walter Becker record, and sonically it's outstanding.


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## kyheng

My turn to pollute this thread...... 
Do you guys feels that the term "reference" is too general and too misleading sometimes? What reference that the CD A compare with CD B? I don't know, and I'm pretty sure most of us also don't. Back to back is still the same, a personal review by another person. I see nothing more than that. 
Just like equipments, some brands like to comes out with "reference" series and sell at sky high price. But how do this "reference" came along?


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## Buzzman

Bluenote said:


> To those who may know...
> 
> I am looking for a Steely Dan track that I heard a couple of years ago, it sounded fairly contemporary with an uptempo-calypso kind of beat to it. It was out of the norm from what I know about Steely Dan but it was still a great track!
> 
> Any references would be appreciated.
> 
> Bluenote


Well, talk about asking to throw darts in the blind.  But, it might be your lucky day. I own every Steely Dan album, and based on what you describe, my guess is that you might have heard a track off "The Royal Scam" an album that I LOVE, but which didn't garner the sales results Aja and others achieved. Kid Charlemagne, Sign In Stranger, The Fez and Haitian Divorce fit your description.


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## Buzzman

kyheng said:


> My turn to pollute this thread......
> Do you guys feels that the term "reference" is too general and too misleading sometimes? What reference that the CD A compare with CD B? I don't know, and I'm pretty sure most of us also don't. Back to back is still the same, a personal review by another person. I see nothing more than that.
> Just like equipments, some brands like to comes out with "reference" series and sell at sky high price. But how do this "reference" came along?


Wow.  It's obvious you don't understand what is happening in this thread so I will attempt to make this simple for you. We are not talking about "brands" of records, and some company's self promotion of its products as a "reference." We are seeking to identify those recordings where the engineering and mastering are of such a high level that when played through your playback system (whether it be your headphones, stock car stereo system or a world class, competition level system) these recordings allow you to experience the musicianship and the recording session unlike anything else you might have played previously. These recordings exhibit great detail, naturalness, balance and dynamic range, convey a "you are there" sense of realism, and thereby allow the listener to better appreciate his/her playback system. And, these recordings, whether you like the music or not, are of such a high quality that one is hard pressed to deny that they are great recordings and can properly serve as a "reference" for the listener. 

We have, for the most part, been talking about "commercial" recordings, which for me means mostly "popular" music, such as rock, r&b, etc. Recordings of these genres of music have tended to suffer in terms of sound quality over the years in comparison to say Classical or Jazz. Regardless the genre, the assumption is that you will only buy what you like to listen to in the way of music content. So, irrespective of your "taste," the objective is to identify those recordings that offer great sound engineering and mastering, and thus can become the "reference" by which you judge the quality of other recordings to which you listen, and become indispensable for you when judging your playback system. 

Many people go through life thinking they have heard great sounding recordings, when in fact they may not have because they weren't exposed to a truly great recording that can serve as their "reference" for comparing anything else they have heard or will hear. When you hear a truly reference quality recording you will know it. To drive home my point to you, I have a Jazz record, "Bill Evans - Live At The Village Vanguard." This recording is live and it's stellar in all respects. During Bill's piano solo in "Waltz for Debbie" I can hear a waiter opening a bottle of wine for some customers seated stage right. Yes, I hear the cork come out of the bottle.  Only a great recording will allow that level of detail to be audible within the context that it is heard. And, when you hear this kind of detail in a recording, trust me, it will excite you. People can debate whether a particular musical performance is great, and they might even debate whether a particular recording is as great as someone else thinks. But, the goal here is to help find those recordings that help us better enjoy our playback systems. Hopefully, this thread can become a good resource for you and others. Follow it, and participate in it, in that spirit.


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## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> Wow.  It's obvious you don't understand what is happening in this thread so I will attempt to make this simple for you. We are not talking about "brands" of records, and some company's self promotion of its products as a "reference."


Ironically, you didn't understand his post or the questions in it. :laugh:


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## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> Ironically, you didn't understand his post or the questions in it. :laugh:


What's "ironic" is that you understood his post, or think you did. You obviously don't have a life, and are clearly suffering from some serious pain and anguish. I feel for you, man.


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## MarkZ

Why are you getting your panties in such a twist over this thread? You're taking every comment personally. I said I didn't like the music... you insulted me. Kyheng asked a valid question about how we define "reference", and you insulted him. Get a grip.

Also, it's pretty obvious from your lengthy reply to him that you have no ****ing idea what you're talking about. You're not an engineer, you're a fanboi.


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## chad

Buzzman said:


> What's "ironic" is that you understood his post, or think you did. You obviously don't have a life, and are clearly suffering from some serious pain and anguish. I feel for you, man.


chiiillllax man


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## MarkZ

BTW... if you want to discuss this like an adult, I'm more than willing to give you my take on why I think the notion of an objective "reference" is a faulty one, and even why I think it's a bad strategy to take when evaluating an audio system.

And if you're nice, I'll also tell you what I don't like about Sea Change (on the dude's list of 5-star recordings).


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## bafukie

sigh... does anyone of u suffering from inferiority complex that u have to be a internet hero?

buzzman took his time to share GOOD QUALITY CD/RECORDING with all of us. it is a SHARING. why oh why do u guys need to be a dick and scrutinize everything under the sun?

i agreed with this quote 'Audio systems are supposed to be the vehicle for listening to music that you like'. but its not the end of a spectrum. I dont listen to REFERENCE CD everyday nor do i ONLY LISTEN to my type of music.. whats wrong with having best of both world?


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## MarkZ

Gee whiz! And all I did was say those CDs sucked. And they do. 

Over a decade ago I used to work for circuit city (back when they were in business, AND when they had commissioned salespeople with suits and the whole shebang  ). For a while I sold in a section called "ace" which was basically shorthand for random electronics crap. One of the big ticket items was mini systems (ie. glorified boomboxes). They were very popular at the time despite being awful-sounding migraine-inducing pieces of ****. But I made some coin, and I wasn't making anything in car audio because that demographic S-U-C-K-E-D.

Anyway, the way I used to sell those godawful things was by carefully choosing a set of "reference" CDs. I remember the selection vividly -- I had a Donald Fagen CD, a Lisa Loeb CD, a John Williams superman thing, Dire Straits, Phantom of the Opera, a Bush CD, and some others. I chose what to play based on who the customer was, but one thing that all those CDs had in common was that they could make those pieces of **** sound absolutely fantastic! When the customer got home and played his own music, and it didn't sound quite so hot anymore, it was out of my hands and no longer my problem. I counted on the fact that the customer would continue to choose "reference CDs" to show off for his friends and to otherwise feel good about his purchase. At least until the 30 days was up. 

So what am I blathering on about? It's _easy_ to reproduce some CDs. These tend to be the ones that are considered 5-star CDs. The Eagles... friggin come on. If I hear Hotel California in a demo at a store one more time, I'm gonna shoot everyone in the place.

The challenge comes in trying to reproduce *your own* music collection. That doesn't mean that everything's gonna sound good. Some things are just poorly recorded. But does that mean that you should strategize and tune based on how the friggin Eagles sound on your system so that you can then go on and crank The Smashing Pumpkins and Tool? Doesn't work that way.

Trying to list a bunch of CDs that sound good on your system is like Pyle finding just the right probe signal to make their crap-ass amps generate 1000w. It's masturbation.


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## Bluenote

Buzzman, thanks for the reference! I will look into The Royal Scam. Aja happens to be the latest SD record that I purchased, previous to that was the classic Gaucho and a best of album. 

Thanks again!

Bluenote


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## Austin

Im about 2/3 of the way through downloading all those albums haha. Made a playlist called reference albums and im gonna hit shuffle in that playlist for the next several weeks


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## kyheng

MarkZ said:


> Ironically, you didn't understand his post or the questions in it. :laugh:


Mark : Indeed he never understand what I meant. This same goes by the other thread. When I'm talking the first BitOne is a crap product(where most of the users confirmed on this) and he keep on saying BitOne.1 or .S is a good product. Does this makes sense? 

I think I need to start a thread to condamn DRZ-9255 and I'm sure he will jump in again.

And appreciate that if you can press the orange button.


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## kyheng

Buzzman said:


> Wow.  It's obvious you don't understand what is happening in this thread so I will attempt to make this simple for you. We are not talking about "brands" of records, and some company's self promotion of its products as a "reference." We are seeking to identify those recordings where the engineering and mastering are of such a high level that when played through your playback system (whether it be your headphones, stock car stereo system or a world class, competition level system) these recordings allow you to experience the musicianship and the recording session unlike anything else you might have played previously. These recordings exhibit great detail, naturalness, balance and dynamic range, convey a "you are there" sense of realism, and thereby allow the listener to better appreciate his/her playback system. And, these recordings, whether you like the music or not, are of such a high quality that one is hard pressed to deny that they are great recordings and can properly serve as a "reference" for the listener.
> 
> We have, for the most part, been talking about "commercial" recordings, which for me means mostly "popular" music, such as rock, r&b, etc. Recordings of these genres of music have tended to suffer in terms of sound quality over the years in comparison to say Classical or Jazz. Regardless the genre, the assumption is that you will only buy what you like to listen to in the way of music content. So, irrespective of your "taste," the objective is to identify those recordings that offer great sound engineering and mastering, and thus can become the "reference" by which you judge the quality of other recordings to which you listen, and become indispensable for you when judging your playback system.
> 
> Many people go through life thinking they have heard great sounding recordings, when in fact they may not have because they weren't exposed to a truly great recording that can serve as their "reference" for comparing anything else they have heard or will hear. When you hear a truly reference quality recording you will know it. To drive home my point to you, I have a Jazz record, "Bill Evans - Live At The Village Vanguard." This recording is live and it's stellar in all respects. During Bill's piano solo in "Waltz for Debbie" I can hear a waiter opening a bottle of wine for some customers seated stage right. Yes, I hear the cork come out of the bottle.  Only a great recording will allow that level of detail to be audible within the context that it is heard. And, when you hear this kind of detail in a recording, trust me, it will excite you. People can debate whether a particular musical performance is great, and they might even debate whether a particular recording is as great as someone else thinks. But, the goal here is to help find those recordings that help us better enjoy our playback systems. Hopefully, this thread can become a good resource for you and others. Follow it, and participate in it, in that spirit.


My million apologies. When first post I replied on your thread, indeed I never spend any time on the link you provided. But after I wasted some few minutes of time to read what he said, I want to retract my apologies. Because what I see from the link is some statement like "this is my favorite", "great", "amazing" and other subjective terms that we often use. 

Technical is an objective term and seems like this "sound engineer" mixed up objective terms with his own subjective feelings and come out some review. 

But still, I can see people praise him like god. Just like Jeremy Clarkson.


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## Buzzman

Austin said:


> Im about 2/3 of the way through downloading all those albums haha. Made a playlist called reference albums and im gonna hit shuffle in that playlist for the next several weeks


Austin, you "get it." Hopefully you will hear some music that you will really enjoy and, at the same time, become your "reference" for what constitutes a great recording. Hey, you might even want to create your own demo cds consisting of your favorite tracks from these recordings.


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## Buzzman

Bluenote said:


> Buzzman, thanks for the reference! I will look into The Royal Scam. Aja happens to be the latest SD record that I purchased, previous to that was the classic Gaucho and a best of album.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Bluenote


Since you seem to really like the Dan, I also highly recommend Pretzel Logic and Katy Lied. Again, great music and great sound. They pre-date Royal Scam, and showcase the group's progression from a rock based group to a duo influenced more by Jazz and R&B, backed by outstanding studio musicians, and provide a view into what their future releases would be like. For example, compare Dr. Wu off of Katy Lied, and fast forward to the title track from Aja. You will see what I mean.


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## JayinMI

MarkZ, I agree most of the music in that initial list is not my taste. My main sources are XM and iPod. I usually listen to Octane. I listen to about 90% rock and metal...however, as my system improves, I *am* willing to expand my horizons. I mean, I'd like to be able to hear the subtle nuances of someone like Norah Jones, or something, but it's not something I'll listen to all the time.

However, I've also found that the vast majority of the stuff I listen to is recorded kinda poorly and by improving my system, it makes it more obvious.
It actually makes me like certain songs/albums/artists less because of it.

I'm willing to try different things. If I don't like them, then meh. If I do, then I learned something new.

I mean, I understand where you were coming from with selling Mini systems at CC (as a former Roadshop Manager), and Dave Matthews, Michael Jackson and Dire Straits make anything sound good. 

I think that's it. I mean really, tho, just because you didn't like the selections of music, was there really any _valid_ reason for you to say they all sucked? Not everyone has the same taste in music as you.

Jay


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## chad

If I said rock and metal sucked would you have a litter of kittens?

Can I have pick of the litter? My neighbor is looking for a new cat.


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## MarkZ

Jay, I was just having fun with that comment. Dude got pissed. Maybe he's in one of those bands.

It's cool that you're willing to try new music. Just make sure you're listening to the music and not your audio system.


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## JayinMI

chad said:


> If I said rock and metal sucked would you have a litter of kittens?
> 
> Can I have pick of the litter? My neighbor is looking for a new cat.


Me? No. My mom always told me to consider the source 

j/k. Actually, no. As I said, everyone has different tastes. That's all.

Besides, don't you do some mastering for rock and metal bands? 

Jay


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## chad

LOL, yep 

and see that's the turn the thread should have taken.


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## zachcopp

I am actually surprised a couple of those songs made the list. I would have never considered them good "testers" of a system, but the more I listen to them the more I can hear how good they are


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## Buzzman

Bluenote said:


> Buzzman, thanks for the reference! I will look into The Royal Scam. Aja happens to be the latest SD record that I purchased, previous to that was the classic Gaucho and a best of album.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Bluenote


Bluenote, I forgot something very important. Make sure that any CD copy of the Steely Dan records I recommended you get is the remastered version from the 1998/1999 period or thereafter. The sonic improvement over earlier CD releases is quite dramatic. Check this out for some insight into what was wrong with the original CD releases (note in particular the comments from the engineer Roger Nichols): 

Metal Leg 18 - CD Scandal

I am sure this kind of stuff didn’t happen to just Steely Dan’s musical treasures.


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> MarkZ, I agree most of the music in that initial list is not my taste. My main sources are XM and iPod. I usually listen to Octane. I listen to about 90% rock and metal...however, as my system improves, I *am* willing to expand my horizons. I mean, I'd like to be able to hear the subtle nuances of someone like Norah Jones, or something, but it's not something I'll listen to all the time.
> 
> However, I've also found that the vast majority of the stuff I listen to is recorded kinda poorly and by improving my system, it makes it more obvious.
> It actually makes me like certain songs/albums/artists less because of it.
> 
> I'm willing to try different things. If I don't like them, then meh. If I do, then I learned something new.
> 
> I mean, I understand where you were coming from with selling Mini systems at CC (as a former Roadshop Manager), and Dave Matthews, Michael Jackson and Dire Straits make anything sound good.
> 
> I think that's it. I mean really, tho, just because you didn't like the selections of music, was there really any _valid_ reason for you to say they all sucked? Not everyone has the same taste in music as you.
> 
> Jay


Hey Jay, I am all for expanding horizons, as you might have figured. But a key objective of this thread is to help the listener discern, within the musical genre that he or she prefers, what recordings are of such a quality that they might become a "reference" for him or her. As a fan of metal, I thought you might find the following interesting reading:

Gateway Mastering & DVD

Even Heavy-Metal Fans Complain That Today's Music Is Too Loud!!! - WSJ.com

These articles were part of a link another poster put up above. Now, you may already have the Guns & Roses record mentioned in the first article. But my point is the resources are here for people to read, and ultimately learn about exemplars of the best recordings of the type of music they like. In an earlier post I pointed out some of the mastering engineers who tend to put out some of the best sounding records around. Look who mastered that Guns & Roses record mentioned in that first article. Bob Ludwig. I am sure he has mastered other metal records, so you can have fun searching.


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## chad

Bob Katz has a good site worth reading too.


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## Bluenote

Buzzman said:


> Since you seem to really like the Dan, I also highly recommend Pretzel Logic and Katy Lied. Again, great music and great sound. They pre-date Royal Scam, and showcase the group's progression from a rock based group to a duo influenced more by Jazz and R&B, backed by outstanding studio musicians, and provide a view into what their future releases would be like. For example, compare Dr. Wu off of Katy Lied, and fast forward to the title track from Aja. You will see what I mean.


Hey thanks Buzzman, I am always looking for something good! I will be suer to look them up. Thanks for starting this thread! It's been good to have these discussions about good music because good music is so important. 

Bluenote


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## Buzzman

chad said:


> Bob Katz has a good site worth reading too.


Yes, he is in that top tier too. A link to his site was also posted earlier, but for those who are interested, here is Bob's "Honor Roll of Dynamic Recordings":

Honor Roll

But as Chad said, you should read the other pages of his site. His FAQ page is an encyclopedia of helpful information.


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## MarkZ

"As the intrinsic loudness goes up, the sound quality can go down."

I'm glad he put 'can' in there. I don't want to take him out of context, because he's of course right about the loudness war, but there's ALWAYS some degree of dynamics compression required. This is why comopressors exist. Amplified guitars, vocals, and drums all need it. There's such a thing as too much dynamics. I can actually think of a couple recordings where this is the case (although nothing mainstream, and nothing where they had $$$ to record). I can also think of some albums where they made "too much" compression work for them.

This might be reflected in what he said about DSOTM. "Great example of progressive rock where the compressor was used for esthetic effect and for the sound, not to achieve a “loud record.”"


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## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> "As the intrinsic loudness goes up, the sound quality can go down."
> 
> I'm glad he put 'can' in there. I don't want to take him out of context, because he's of course right about the loudness war, but there's ALWAYS some degree of dynamics compression required. This is why comopressors exist. Amplified guitars, vocals, and drums all need it. There's such a thing as too much dynamics. I can actually think of a couple recordings where this is the case (although nothing mainstream, and nothing where they had $$$ to record). I can also think of some albums where they made "too much" compression work for them.
> 
> This might be reflected in what he said about DSOTM. "Great example of progressive rock where the compressor was used for esthetic effect and for the sound, not to achieve a “loud record.”"


Mark, I very much appreciate this post of yours. This is the kind of dialogue I prefer to have. Your commentary here is in the spirit of the thread and helps promote meaningful discussion. That's all I was asking for. :beerchug: When time permits later (got too many crises at work to deal with), I will read your comments more closely and offer any thoughts I might have. Others may well chime in before I can.


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## bigabe

I use various recordings from Pantera, Slipknot, Lamb of God, Exodus, and Hatebreed as my reference recordings. Why?? Because that is what I listen to.

If I tuned my stereo based on how it reproduces some Steely Dan recordings, it would sound like DOGSHIT when I pop in the CDs that I usually listen to. I know this because I've done it.


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## MarkZ

bigabe said:


> I use various recordings from Pantera, Slipknot, Lamb of God, Exodus, and Hatebreed as my reference recordings. Why?? Because that is what I listen to.
> 
> If I tuned my stereo based on how it reproduces some Steely Dan recordings, it would sound like DOGSHIT when I pop in the CDs that I usually listen to. I know this because I've done it.


:thumbsup:

Exactly what I was trying to warn against! Each individual should have their own set of "reference" CDs that should be representative of their collection and their goals. Then the whole "reference" thing is useful.


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## Knobby Digital

As much as I agree that people should listen to what they like and tune based on that, it's a 100% reality that for whatever reason there are folks yearning for some "SQ" music recommendations. [WeverTF that means, and I damn near **** myself just now using "SQ" as an adjective, BTW.]

FWIW, I listen to a huge variety of music from Steely Dan to Gucci Mane (and beyond on both ends), and I don't believe that there has to be much compromised to accommodate both other than maybe raising some XO points higher than what would be possible if you didn't have to account for some bass-heaviness. The rest can be done on the fly by means of HU tone controls once you get your room correction and general tonality preference set.



bigabe said:


> Hatebreed


:laugh: I used to know a bunch of sXe HC guys and gals in HS. Even played in some HC bands despite it not really being my thing, but it was fun. :laugh:


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## MarkZ

Knobby Digital said:


> FWIW, I listen to a huge variety of music from Steely Dan to Gucci Mane (and beyond on both ends), and I don't believe that there has to be much compromised to accommodate both other than maybe raising some XO points higher than what would be possible if you didn't have to account for some bass-heaviness. The rest can be done on the fly by means of HU tone controls once you get your room correction and general tonality preference set.


I think there are a lot of parameters that differ between various genres that make it so that you have to define your goals and your strategy differently. For example, energy content, dynamics, and imaging vary WIDELY between different recordings. 'Loveless' by My Bloody Valentine and 'Room For Squares' by John Mayer would be two examples of two extremes.


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## Knobby Digital

What would someone need to do to accommodate both those songs if they were on a mixtape? Maybe it would be a ****ty mixtape, but let's just say...


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## chad

well for starters.. a tape player.


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## Knobby Digital

chad said:


> well for starters.. a tape player.


:laugh: ****er...

Call it a playlist or mixCD if you must.


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## MarkZ

Not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying it will influence many decisions and goals. Without different goals, we'd all have the same audio systems.

BTW, that's one hell of a mix tape...


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## Knobby Digital

MarkZ said:


> BTW, that's one hell of a mix tape...


Yes. And one that can stay the **** away from my cassette deck.


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## MarkZ

lol @ ur cassette deck


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## Knobby Digital

Actually, I've got a pic of it hosted right now. Don't use it much, though.


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## Mack

I'm glad a few albums I have made the list. I really wish artists would insist on having there albums released in the same vein as these mentioned in the article.


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## chad

that's actually a kickass deck.

And one of the most unique mic stands I have ever seen


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## Knobby Digital

Pio 3-header. Was my pop's from the 70's, and he bought it because my uncle wanted one and couldn't get it in the Carribean so he bought one for himself too.

She's a tempermental one, though. It's worked for me when I seldom use it, but I lent it to my boy does re-issues (sometimes of **** that was never actually issued), and the only recording of this artist's was a cassette that he had. Dude was a 6'7, take-no-****, HUGE MOTHERFUCKER, ex-USAF, and the damn thing was acting up. He was telling my friend, "If you **** my tape up, THAT'S IT!".


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## chad

I have a temperamental Nak.. but then again who has a Nak that's not temperamental.


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## CraigE

Hey Buzzman thanks.
I went though my wifes CD collection, and found five that were on the list.
I (ahem) borrowed them.
Good fun stuff.


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## drtool

chad said:


> I have a temperamental Nak.. but then again who has a Nak that's not temperamental.


::well you get the picture 25 years of :only can use 10 smilies


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## Knobby Digital

A while back I bought a Nak on eBay for REAL CHEAP. Like $50 cheap because it was listed at a Nakamishi. I wanted to use it for recording - run an instrument or a mix through the monitor-out to get a neat tape compression sound. Damn thing didn't work, though. It may still be somewhere...

Personally I like the sound of cassette tapes. It's not accurate or "reference", but it's enjoyable, and I listened to cassettes in the car until relatively recently - 2004/5 when I got an iPod, which is interestingly enough wrapped in a Carribean cassette sleeve in its clear case.


BTW, I use that gooseneck drum mic clip to clip on my headrest. Works great!!!


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## audionutz

Since this is a topic near and dear to my heart, here's my soap-box moment:

I must disagree with earlier comments regarding tuning with certain types of music because they are misleading to the layperson reading this forum. What I mean is, if the system is properly designed and executed and is capable of reproducing real-lifelike dynamics and transients, it does NOT matter what material is used during tuning, because this system will be quite capable of accurate reproduction of ANYTHING, revealing both good recordings and garbage for what they are respectively. If a system makes a certain genre of music sound like piss after tuning, then it either wasn't tuned properly, OR the system has fundamental flaws that transcend tweakablity. 

The last thing I wanna do is thread-jack this topic into another "how to properly tune" talent showcase, so I leave you with this thought: If your goals are to have a system to jam/ listen to your favorite music, then by all means use that to make your system sound the best it can. If your goal however is to have a reference-level system (as this topic implies), then proper design/implementation and tuning will net a reference system, that by definition, will provide accurate reproduction of ALL musical genres and will reveal spectacular recordings for what they are. The only criteria needed to tune a properly designed system is to use reference material you are intimately familiar with (i know this horse has been killed, resurrected, killed again, and pummeled into a heaping pile of vermin long ago....).


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## Knobby Digital

^ That was actually my earlier point, except that I account for more bass-heavy music that many consider to be "****" that may require higher XO points. So they don't listen to it, so they don't try to accommodate it.


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## chad

audionutz said:


> (i know this horse has been killed, resurrected, killed again, and pummeled into a heaping pile of vermin long ago....).


Jesus man, you did not even make any glue? :laugh:


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## audionutz

chad said:


> Jesus man, you did not even make any glue? :laugh:


LMAO! How could I have forgotten that??? Sorry!

GREAT thread btw. Some of my personal fave ref-quality US-OEM standard run of the mill recordings that come to mind are
Meat Puppets- Too High To DIe
Collective Soul- greatest
Little River Band- greatest
Alice in Chains- Unplugged
Madonna- Immaculate collection
Rage against the machine- debut
Lyle Lovett- Joshua Judges Ruth
Fleetwood Mac- greatest
Savatage- Handful of Rain (please do yourselves a favor and audition "Chance", i think it's track 3...holy **** for a rock album, it is so complex and dynamic, one of the GREATEST rock tracks I have ever heard)

Too many more to list


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## Buzzman

audionutz said:


> Since this is a topic near and dear to my heart, here's my soap-box moment:
> 
> I must disagree with earlier comments regarding tuning with certain types of music because they are misleading to the layperson reading this forum. What I mean is, if the system is properly designed and executed and is capable of reproducing real-lifelike dynamics and transients, it does NOT matter what material is used during tuning, because this system will be quite capable of accurate reproduction of ANYTHING, revealing both good recordings and garbage for what they are respectively. If a system makes a certain genre of music sound like piss after tuning, then it either wasn't tuned properly, OR the system has fundamental flaws that transcend tweakablity.
> 
> The last thing I wanna do is thread-jack this topic into another "how to properly tune" talent showcase, so I leave you with this thought: If your goals are to have a system to jam/ listen to your favorite music, then by all means use that to make your system sound the best it can. If your goal however is to have a reference-level system (as this topic implies), then proper design/implementation and tuning will net a reference system, that by definition, will provide accurate reproduction of ALL musical genres and will reveal spectacular recordings for what they are. The only criteria needed to tune a properly designed system is to use reference material you are intimately familiar with (i know this horse has been killed, resurrected, killed again, and pummeled into a heaping pile of vermin long ago....).


Steve, thanks for chiming in man. It's been a while. You took the words right out of my mouth. I agree completely with what you said above. By the way, I am going to need another copy of Audionutz 9.4.  

I want to add one more comment in response to Big Abe's earlier post: The goal here is NOT to force anyone to listen to, or tune with, any particular type of recording. Geez, I don't listen to or tune with music I don't like.  So I understand where you are coming from. But, one cannot argue with the fact that certain genres of music have fallen short on the sound quality meter compared to other genres, and if you happen to like that form of music, wouldn't it behoove you to try and find the best possible recordings so that your enjoyment of your music and your system can be optimized? Big Abe, I am not a fan of the music you like, but take a look at Bob Katz's Honor Roll, for example, and you will see AD/DC, Rage Against the Machine, and Korn on there. On John Vestman's list you will see Metallica. I think it's fair to say that they fall into the same musical family as the bands you cited. If you already have those records then you have a starting point from which to assess whether your other favorite records match the sonic qualities these other recordings establish, and thus can create you own personalized collection of "reference" recordings.


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## Buzzman

audionutz said:


> LMAO! How could I have forgotten that??? Sorry!
> 
> GREAT thread btw. Some of my personal fave ref-quality US-OEM standard run of the mill recordings that come to mind are
> Meat Puppets- Too High To DIe
> Collective Soul- greatest
> Little River Band- greatest
> Alice in Chains- Unplugged
> Madonna- Immaculate collection
> Rage against the machine- debut
> Lyle Lovett- Joshua Judges Ruth
> Fleetwood Mac- greatest
> Savatage- Handful of Rain (please do yourselves a favor and audition "Chance", i think it's track 3...holy **** for a rock album, it is so complex and dynamic, one of the GREATEST rock tracks I have ever heard)
> 
> Too many more to list


Were it not for your custom CD mixes, I NEVER would have listened to Alice in Chains. The band's name alone made me not want to listen to the music, and I am as open minded as they come. But, I was playing one of your CDs and this track came on that simply mesmerized me. I played it over, and over, and asked myself, who the hell is that? It was Alice in Chains, "Brother" from the Unplugged CD. Now, it's one of my favorite pieces of recorded music. I mention this just as an example of what can be accomplished when you are exposed to something new. Call it enlightenment.


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## MarkZ

Knobby Digital said:


> A while back I bought a Nak on eBay for REAL CHEAP. Like $50 cheap because it was listed at a Nakamishi. I wanted to use it for recording - run an instrument or a mix through the monitor-out to get a neat tape compression sound. Damn thing didn't work, though. It may still be somewhere...
> 
> Personally I like the sound of cassette tapes. It's not accurate or "reference", but it's enjoyable, and I listened to cassettes in the car until relatively recently - 2004/5 when I got an iPod, which is interestingly enough wrapped in a Carribean cassette sleeve in its clear case.
> 
> 
> BTW, I use that gooseneck drum mic clip to clip on my headrest. Works great!!!


I like cassettes too, although I don't actually have any. The problem with them is long-term storage. And I don't think they're releasing very many albums in cassette anymore. 

I was lol-ing at the thought of you rocking out in your car with a delco tape player.


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## MarkZ

audionutz said:


> Since this is a topic near and dear to my heart, here's my soap-box moment:
> 
> I must disagree with earlier comments regarding tuning with certain types of music because they are misleading to the layperson reading this forum. What I mean is, if the system is properly designed and executed and is capable of reproducing real-lifelike dynamics and transients, it does NOT matter what material is used during tuning, because this system will be quite capable of accurate reproduction of ANYTHING, revealing both good recordings and garbage for what they are respectively. If a system makes a certain genre of music sound like piss after tuning, then it either wasn't tuned properly, OR the system has fundamental flaws that transcend tweakablity.


And everybody farts butterflies. 

We face a **** ton of limitations in the car. There's no such thing as the perfect system. I don't care whose competition vehicle it is, we're listening to music in a phone booth and we're trying like hell to minimize the crappiness associated with it. Somewhere along the line, sacrifices are being made to accommodate some goal at the expense of another.

As I always say ... you can reproduce the entire spectrum with a single 3" driver pointed right at you (or two, if you're fond of stereo) and an EQ. 20-20k. The reason we don't is because it won't get nearly loud enough to be practical! So then we introduce multiple speakers. This gets us greater output, but then phase coherence becomes a factor, reflections become more complex, mounting locations might require customization, etc. And then we add even more speakers to get even louder, and those problems are further exacerbated. Etc.

Every design has tradeoffs. _Every_ one. What we choose those tradeoffs to be depends (err... SHOULD depend) on our intended goals. And our intended goals depend not only on our listening habits, but also the program material.

Show me the best system you've heard, and I'll show you a BETTER one playing a different CD at a different volume level. This I guarantee.


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## MarkZ

audionutz said:


> Meat Puppets- Too High To DIe


One more thing. I agree with you about the "SQ" of this album, but I'd also like to point out that it's pretty ****ty.  Yeah, yeah, I know, subjective and all that. I'm not trying to **** on your musical taste or anything. I'll just say that it's generally not considered to be one of their better albums by most fans. Certainly not up there with Meat Puppets II. The reason I make this point is because it goes back to what I was saying at the start of the thread, about good albums musically not always being in line with good recordings. I think we, as audio enthusiasts at some level, should resist the temptation of listening to stuff just because it makes our audio systems sound good.


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## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> . . .Show me the best system you've heard, and I'll show you a BETTER one playing a different CD at a different volume level. This I guarantee.


Please clarify. Are you comparing *both *systems, playing this "different" CD, at this "different" volume level?



MarkZ said:


> . . . I was saying at the start of the thread, about good albums musically not always being in line with good recordings. I think we, as audio enthusiasts at some level, should resist the temptation of listening to stuff just because it makes our audio systems sound good.


In my view NO recording "makes" a playback system sound better. The playback system is simply reproducing what it is fed, and allows the listener to ascertain differences between/among the recorded material that is played back. I, personally, have heard great recordings sound like crap on improperly executed or poor playback systems. 

I do agree with your overall sentiment that we, as lovers of music, should not ignore music that for whatever reason was not recorded with the highest level of engineering. There is great art out there that was not recorded well, and we are less informed and enlightened if we ignore it. That's why Robert Johnson, early Louis Armstrong, Bix Beiderbecke, Charlie Parker, Marvin Gaye "Let's Get It On," Curtis Mayfield "Curtis," etc. have their proper place in my music collection. But, when I put on Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" I immediately know what was missing from those other recordings, and I have a much better understanding of why.


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## Lanson

I torrented them all in HQ, and am listening throughout the week. Thank you! I already had most of these discs in the past but animals, time, and thieves have reduced my stockpile of CD's.


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## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> Please clarify. Are you comparing *both *systems, playing this "different" CD, at this "different" volume level?


What I meant was that you can take a "great sounding" system in one application and find a better sounding one in another application. And that better sounding one won't sound as good as another system in another application.

IOW, there's no universal answer in car audio. If there was, we'd all be running the same system!

Some people use 3" widebanders to reproduce their entire midrange and upper end (this is actually what I use in my home theater...). There are lots of good reasons to do this, including ease of mounting/aiming, superior polar response, wider bandwidth, lower distortion (for most good ones), more ideal crossover points, etc. But there are also lots of reasons you _wouldn't_ use them. Crappy sensitivity and limited output capabilities come to mind. So, for applications where the sound level is fairly moderate and the energy content isn't very demanding in the midrange (here's where I invoke Steely Dan), it might be a great strategy. For other apps, where ear-bleeding levels of post-rock and shoegaze will be the norm, those mids will be charred within a week. 

Wanna see my box of blown mids?  

At one time, in a previous car, I had considered installing two midranges per side and letting the carPC switch the processing so that it would use only one midrange for 'easy listening' and both midranges when the need arose (I was limited to 4" speakers because of the mounting location). This has its obvious disadvantages. Just another example of application-dependent tradeoffs in car audio.

There's no perfect system unless you listen to the same CD over and over again. Unfortunately, a lot of people tune that way.


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## DynaudioNut

Buzzman, this is one of the best threads I've read thus far. Typically I don't comment on these threads because ultimately some wise-ass is going to side track thought provoking conversations to something bordering on elementary. At some point, most of the serious music lover's such as yourself are going to throw in the towel, I hope this doesn't happen to you...


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## Buzzman

DynaudioNut said:


> Buzzman, this is one of the best threads I've read thus far. Typically I don't comment on these threads because ultimately some wise-ass is going to side track thought provoking conversations to something bordering on elementary. At some point, most of the serious music lover's such as yourself are going to throw in the towel, I hope this doesn't happen to you...


Thanks, much appreciated! Trust me, there was a point in this thread where I almost did throw in the towel, but Bikinpunk sent me a really nice PM which helped me keep it alive. I am glad I did.


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## Knobby Digital

MarkZ said:


> I like cassettes too, although I don't actually have any. The problem with them is long-term storage. And I don't think they're releasing very many albums in cassette anymore.


Yeah, they're not the perfect format. Mostly I listened to tape rips of LP's, and anytime I'd be at a record store, I'd look through the cassette racks to see if there was something good for the car. When my dad gave me that Pio, along with it came all of his tapes. Mostly all Soca and Calypso. 



Not to drag this too far OT. I really just chimed in again because this piece of timeless brilliance has been mentioned. 










The most gentle voice. And speaking of West Indian music, he was a huge influence on early Reggae.

And for a Marvin Gaye record this one is probably my fave as a full-length. Good Times cover and all.


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## Buzzman

Hey Knobby D, much props to you man! It's nice to learn that there are others who are also aware of these timeless classics. And that Ernie Barnes painting on the cover of the Marvin Gaye album is itself a classic. Soca and Calypso; you are speaking my language. I am from Trinidad & Tobago, and my Dad was a Calypsonian.  

Sticking to the focus of this thread, Mobile Fidelity has just issued a new 24K version of the "Curtis" album which I am eager to acquire and see if they were able to work some sonic magic on it. It's not a bad recording by any means in its original form, but if the sound quality is made to match the quality of the music, hot damn!! I will report back on that. The excitement and interest this thread has stimulated has motivated me to go digging through my boxes and rediscover some music treasures that haven't seen a CD player in a while. My next mission is to supplement the lists that have already been published in this thread with my own, though limited to "popular" or "commercial" recordings.


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## Knobby Digital

Shouldn't surprise you. When you sat in my car we listened to Bobby Wommack.

My folks are from TNT, also. And my uncle who wanted the high-end cassette deck is a steel-drum player.

PM sent.


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## Notloudenuf

<======== Ignorance alert:

I have been looking at albums listed on multiple links of this thread.
For example:
The John Vestman site lists Beck's Sea Change album as a 5-star reference CD


> Beck - Sea Change - 5-Star Reference CD*
> 
> An amazing recording. Great production, incredible vocals, awesome kick drums (best mid-bottom around) and mastered by the best of the best, Bob Ludwig. This has excellent dynamics, excellent apparent level (top of the line recording experts on this one) and it's a great reference for many mixing and mastering concepts. Plenty of level for my taste, but not as hot as some of today's kiln-cookin' CDs.. but better this way, frankly. You'll still want to listen to it years from now.


However, when you look at the DR Database dr.loudness-war.info the Beck album (depending on which issue 2002 or 2009) shows poor dynamic range DR Database

What is the difference in a 5-star reference CD and a CD that has good dynamic range?


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## MarkZ

Where does their calculation of DR come from? If it's the "simple" one, then it's going to inherently favor dynamic music. The Beck CD isn't one that I would expect to be very dynamic. But the songs themselves aren't very dynamic, so I don't think we can fault the recording. I find the bass guitar a little overbearing in the mix, but overall it's well done. I sure wouldn't consider it a casualty in the loudness war. 

As a side note, it's one of the few Beck albums where the vocals are prominent and the drums aren't.


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## pjhabit

Yeah, there probably isn't alot of dynamic range in the instrumentals of that album, iirc its a pretty mellow acoustic folk type record. 
You'll also notice its an "un-official" database & not a definitive guide to good recordings.


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## Buzzman

Following up on the comments made by MarkZ and pjhabit regarding the Beck's "Sea Change," I assume the 2009 version referenced in that database is the Mobile Fidelity version. It would be interesting to get input from anyone who has compared both to find out whether the MoFi version is truly more "dynamic" or just louder.


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## MarkZ

A couple _interesting_ mixes..

separates the wheat from the chaffe as far as upper midrange reproduction goes
Beach House - Norway

fun with two channels
Low - Breaker


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## pjhabit

Here are a couple more links that may spark this discussion further...
Kids Prefer Poor Quality MP3
Hearing: Our Conditioned Response to Music


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## DS-21

MarkZ said:


> It's cool that you're willing to try new music. Just make sure you're listening to the music and not your audio system.


Though I'll admit, I would expect any audio system of mine to rebel and shut down and/or self-destruct were someone to attempt to subject the poor thing - and my poor ears! - to Celine Dion! 

It's not the worst list overall. Besides Sea Change, the Weezer green album is pretty good. And who doesn't wanna crank some Dre now and again? But overall it really looks like the dude took a couple engineers and simply listed everything they've done. That's a bad strategy. Bob Ludwig, for instance, comes up 13 times. But he's also responsible for ****ting on Pearl Jam's "Ten" in the "redux" version, doing everything he's been railing against in terms of compression.

Two of the albums on there (Vertical Horizon's "Everything You Want," the Goo Goo Doll's "Dizzy Up the Girl") strike me as odd choices for a "reference" recording, simply because while I enjoy listening to them sonically they don't seem special to me.


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## pjhabit

DS-21 said:


> Bob Ludwig, for instance, comes up 13 times. But he's also responsible for ****ting on Pearl Jam's "Ten" in the "redux" version, doing everything he's been railing against in terms of compression.


 Wow, I would have never thought he was responsible for that brick wall of sound. It's a shame too, I'm a big fan of Brendan O'Brien's production & Pearl Jam's music  ...the vinyl was well mastered at least .


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## 70 chevelle

Could someone please explain to me how they remaster an album. When an album is recorded the adjustments are also recorded to the master, right? If an album is remastered do they bring the artist back in and rerecord (is that a word?) the album. Or, do they make adjustments to the original master. If they just tweak the original master would they not be very limited as to what they can do when when tweaking because they are tweaking the poorly made adjustments that required a remaster in the first place?


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## rawdawg

I'm going to guess that they get access to the original multi-track session tape. From there, they can tweak, shift, discombobulate to their hearts content. Do I get a cookie, anyone?


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## rain27

I actually enjoy quite a few of the songs listed as commercial reference cd's, even Celine and Kenny G! 

So I guess I get the best of both worlds...songs I like recorded in high quality.

This collection of music I can actually listen to, unlike the Focal demo cd's.


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## Buzzman

70 chevelle said:


> Could someone please explain to me how they remaster an album. When an album is recorded the adjustments are also recorded to the master, right? If an album is remastered do they bring the artist back in and rerecord (is that a word?) the album. Or, do they make adjustments to the original master. If they just tweak the original master would they not be very limited as to what they can do when when tweaking because they are tweaking the poorly made adjustments that required a remaster in the first place?


Here is a pretty good overview of how the mastering and remastering process works: Remaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, not all remastering results in a better product. For example, Mobile Fidelity has released a new version of Santana's debut album (the self-titled one with the lion on the cover) noting that ". . . until now, Santana has never been heard correctly. After securing the original analog master tapes, Mobile Fidelity engineers realized a colossal mistake had been made. For nearly four decades, copies were produced with the left and right channels reversed. Now, for the first time, you can listen to Santana the way it was meant to be experienced."  How about a refund?! And this is not the only example of a remastering screw-up.

Roger Nichols, the recording engineer on all of Steely Dan's work, which whether you like the music or not, is universally hailed for the sound quality, had this to say in an article he wrote in October 1991 for EQ magazine: 

_"Snap, Crackle and Pop Music
A tale of the (wrong) tape when remastering

By Roger Nichols

I originally got involved in recording music because I hated clicks and pops on record. I figured that the only way that I was going to get good quality recordings to play was to record them myself. I could then bring home two-track 15 ips copies to play on my stereo. Much better than the Rice Crispy sound of vinyl LPs.

When the Compact Disc became a reality, I was beside myself. I was also close by the side of any record company exec who could get me any discs to play on my new found CD player. Since CDs preserved all the characteristics of the original master tape, I could now enjoy music without the drawbacks of black vinyl.

Vinyl Verdict?

The first project I worked on that became a Compact Disc was Donald Fagen's "Nightfly" album. I couldn't wait to get the CD in my hot little hands and compare it with the original mixes. When the CD arrived, I ran to my audio system and threw the CD into my player. After about 30 seconds I was ready to throw in the towel. The CD didn't sound anything like the final mixes. Was I wrong about digital audio? Was the Compact Disc truly inferior to the vinyl disc that it was to replace?

I started doing some checking with the mastering facility where we mastered the album. Bob Ludwig at Masterdisk in New York told me that the record company never asked for the 1610 digital master that we'd made. Instead, they had requested a 30 ips half-inch analog tape copy of our digital mixes. Then they made the CD master from this analog copy. No wonder my CD didn't sound like the original mixes. After we raised enough hell, new CD masters were prepared and new CDs were pressed. I compared the new one to the original mixes. It matched perfectly. Whew!

This was in late 1982. I figured that there was a necessary learning curve for the record companies to get their act together and realize that digital audio Compact Discs should not be made from second or third generation analog tape copies. Isn't nine years enough time?

Aja-Ta

In 1982, Donald Fagen, Gary Katz and myself gathered up all of the original Steely Dan tapes (15 ips analog) and transferred them to digital format so that they would not deteriorate any further. This was in anticipation of catalog re-release in the new Compact Disc format. The first two albums to be released on CD were "Aja" and "Gaucho." I listened to the CDs and they were fine.

Mobile Fidelity is licensed to produce gold-plated CDs of "Aja" and "Gaucho." They called me up to ask me if I liked the sound of their pressings. I listened to them and compared them to the CDs from MCA. I figured the only difference I would hear would be the difference between the gold plating and the aluminum plating on the stock CD. I was shocked! They sounded completely different. The gold ones sounded worse. The gold "Gaucho" CD was even a different speed, about a quarter tone sharper than the original CD from MCA.

A writer I know called me to ask if I heard any difference between the stock CDs and the gold CDs. I told him what I found. He said that he didn't hear any difference. The lightbulp went on in my thought balloon! The stock CDs that I had were produced seven years ago and the ones my friend used were just purchased at Tower Records. I jumped in my car and zipped over to the nearest record store and purchased new copies of the CDs in question. He was right, the new stock CDs sounded exactly like the gold CDs, including the pitch shift on the "Gaucho" CD.

The time we spent transferring all of the original masters was wasted. The record company in their infinite wisdom decided that when they needed new 1630 CD masters to send to the CD plant, that it would be better to use the EQ'd analog copy that had been sitting around for 15 years instead of the digital tapes that we supplied to them nine years ago for just this purpose. And on top of everything else, they couldn't even make sure that the analog machine that played back the "Gaucho" tape was going the right speed. . . ."_

Finally, check out this web site: SA3 - Sound Archeology - Analog Sound In A Digital World".

If their claims are true, this is real hope for those of us who care about hearing great sound along with great musical performance. I don't know if the SA3ri technology mentioned in this article has ever been used in the modern day mastering process, but I plan to find out and get samples of their work if possible.


----------



## Buzzman

DS-21 said:


> Though I'll admit, I would expect any audio system of mine to rebel and shut down and/or self-destruct were someone to attempt to subject the poor thing - and my poor ears! - to Celine Dion!
> 
> It's not the worst list overall. Besides Sea Change, the Weezer green album is pretty good. And who doesn't wanna crank some Dre now and again? But overall it really looks like the dude took a couple engineers and simply listed everything they've done. That's a bad strategy. Bob Ludwig, for instance, comes up 13 times. But he's also responsible for ****ting on Pearl Jam's "Ten" in the "redux" version, doing everything he's been railing against in terms of compression.
> 
> Two of the albums on there (Vertical Horizon's "Everything You Want," the Goo Goo Doll's "Dizzy Up the Girl") strike me as odd choices for a "reference" recording, simply because while I enjoy listening to them sonically they don't seem special to me.


:laugh: I think my wife might hate Celine Dion more than you. I don't dare put on any of her recordings around my wife, no matter how good the sound engineering and mastering, if I want to stay married. 

Regarding Bob Ludwig and that Pearl Jam recording, do consider that what you hear may not be what Mr. Ludwig wanted or desired. There are many examples of the musician/band or record company demanding a certain sonic result that the mastering engineer was obligated to deliver.


----------



## DS-21

pjhabit said:


> Wow, I would have never thought he was responsible for that brick wall of sound. It's a shame too, I'm a big fan of Brendan O'Brien's production & Pearl Jam's music  ...the vinyl was well mastered at least .


That pisses me off more than anything else. Ludwig himself has said in interviews, often rather haughtily, that his vinyl and CD mixes are different, with the implication being that the vinyl mixes are superior. (And you're right: in the case of his "Ten Redux," the vinyl is clearly the better mix. I can't say that I've bought any other new vinyl since high school, so I can't comment on other comparisons.)

Why the hell would any decent person take the better mix and put it on the Rice Krispies no-bass-resolution, no-treble, drag a goddamn rock through a soft ****ing petrochemical rut medium, and **** on the mix intended for the low-noise, high resolution from DC until as high as anyone can hear, high dynamic range, no physical degradation medium? 

Is it all just a ploy to get us to re-buy "Ten" - now with dynamic range! - when we're forty, for $400?


----------



## Oliver

MarkZ said:


> Clearly. U can see me when U pee , xcept my head is bigger :laugh:
> I didn't know it was a ****ing closed thread. I made a comment. Don't have a conniption.
> 
> Now go on and listen to your ****ty music.


*
Fixxed*:laugh:


----------



## pjhabit

DS-21 said:


> That pisses me off more than anything else. Ludwig himself has said in interviews, often rather haughtily, that his vinyl and CD mixes are different, with the implication being that the vinyl mixes are superior. (And you're right: in the case of his "Ten Redux," the vinyl is clearly the better mix. I can't say that I've bought any other new vinyl since high school, so I can't comment on other comparisons.)
> 
> Why the hell would any decent person take the better mix and put it on the Rice Krispies no-bass-resolution, no-treble, drag a goddamn rock through a soft ****ing petrochemical rut medium, and **** on the mix intended for the low-noise, high resolution from DC until as high as anyone can hear, high dynamic range, no physical degradation medium?
> 
> Is it all just a ploy to get us to re-buy "Ten" - now with dynamic range! - when we're forty, for $400?


I understand what you're saying & the fact that it has so much more potential is disappointing, I guess it just doesn't bother me as much. Even w/ its faults, I'd rather listen to the redux version over the dated sound & reverb of the original. And you're right, putting the superior mix on vinyl doesn't make alot of sense...though I still love the physical art work & nostalgia of LP's. 


Not directed at you (DS-21), but I think there are a few here that don't understand what "reference" recordings are about. They are just that..."references" or comparisons for HiFi evaluation. Whether or not the music is good or bad, it servers as a more accurate reproduction (w/o having poor recording techniques getting in the way) to help w/ system setup. We all love music & can listen to it independently of the way it was recorded...having music you enjoy in "reference" quality is just an added bonus. 



rawdawg said:


> Do I get a cookie, anyone?


----------



## Bluenote

Jaco Pastorius / Big Band - Word of Mouth Revisited!

Bluenote


----------



## Buzzman

Well, I went digging through my vast CD collection to find those pop/commercial recordings that I consider worthy of “reference” classification. What follows is a listing of 30 recordings that I “rediscovered” today. I had not listened to them for a while, and they offer something special. These are recordings I love for both the quality of the music AND the quality of the sound. They have not been listed elsewhere in this thread, or in the articles that have been cited in this thread. I also did not review any special versions of these recordings such as Mobile Fidelity, JVC XRCD, DCC, etc. I wanted to use recordings that are readily available, and affordable. In describing these recordings, which are listed in the order in which I listened to them today, I also reference the “intrinsic loudness” level used by Bob Katz in his “Honor Roll” of recordings provided in an earlier post. This is done just as a means of comparison with the recordings Bob cited. I did not rely on any electronic assistance in offering my take on the intrinsic loudness level of the following recordings; only my trusty ears. So, here goes: 

1.	*Quincy Jones “Back on the Block”* – This is a recording released in 1989 that stands up extremely well today. I guess that the intrinsic loudness level is in the -6db/-7 db range. It’s “louder” than many of the other records listed below, but boy does it have great sonic characteristics. The bass is tight and well defined, and the midrange and top end are very smooth. Voices are rich with nice texture and body, and the spatial qualities are top notch. Well balanced overall with excellent dynamics. Quincy assembled an all-star cast of singers and musicians for this one, and it's killer, fusing jazz, R&B, and Hip-Hop/Rap. This record had two legends involved in the engineering – Bruce Swedien recorded and mixed it, and Bernie Grundman mastered it. There are some recording techniques used that might be fairly characterized as giving a nod to Roger Waters and Pink Floyd. If it matters, the liner notes proudly point out that Monster Cable was used everywhere in the recording/mastering process. Tracks 7, 9 and 14 are standouts that make great demos. There is a 2005 remastered version that is now on my to buy list.

2.	*Dire Straits “Brothers in Arms” *– I own the JVC XRCD2 and Warner Bros. Super Bit Mapping version of this CD issued in 2000. I listened to the SBM version. I guess that the intrinsic loudness level is in the -4db/-5 db range. What a great record. Outstanding dynamics, combined with great bass and excellent midrange clarity. Mark Knopfler’s voice is “there.” 

3.	*Sade “Lovers Rock”* – Another 2000 recording that has a lot going for it. Sade’s voice is rich and clear, and stands out well in the mix. The only thing I fault it on is the bass, which is a bit too fat in my view. But, the clarity of the bass notes is excellent. The treble is nicely extended too. 

4.	*Prince “Diamonds and Pearls”* – This is a 1991 recording that was recorded and mixed in analog. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -3db/-4db range. It has excellent dynamic range, with deep, extended bass that is tight and well defined. The vocals are clearly rendered in the mix and sound very natural despite the processing on Prince’s voice. 

5.	*Doobie Brothers “Minute by Minute”* – The bass on this recording is a bit thin, but it has a clear, detailed midrange and treble, and excellent spatial characteristics. The vocals are beautifully reproduced and the whole record sounds well balanced. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the 0/-1db range. It begs to be played loudly, and it sounds even better when you crank it up. The liner notes don’t indicate when this CD was released, but I believe it was around 1990. I am not aware of a remastered version.

6.	*Neil Young “Unplugged” *– This is an excellent live recording that was released in 1993. The crowd is in the room with you. The midrange and treble are outstanding, with great clarity and presence. The bass is fabulous; deep and tight. I would peg the intrinsic loudness level to be somewhere in the -3db/-4db range.

7.	*Bruce Hornsby & The Range “The Way It Is” *– This is a 1996 release and I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -5db/-6db range. What a dynamic recording, with great extension in the bass and treble. The drums sound very punchy. The midrange is very natural sounding, though not as “transparent” as some of the other recordings I list. The title track is just awesome.

8.	*Lauryn Hill “The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill”* – This is one of those rare hip-hop recordings that combines great music with great sound. They even use real instruments! Released in 1998, it has a very analog-like sound quality to it. Although it’s on the higher end of the intrinsic loudness scale (I would guess in the -7db/-8db range) the sound quality doesn’t suffer. It has great bass and a clear, detailed midrange, and cool spatial effects that add to the enjoyment of the record.

9.	*Joe Cocker “Organic” *– I am a huge Joe Cocker fan (geez, I don't like the way that sounds :laugh, and this recording shows him at his best. Released in 1996, his voice is “there” with great size (damn, there I go again :laugh and clarity. You can feel his emotion when he sings. The bass is tight and deep, with excellent weight. A very well balanced recording from top to bottom. The sound is big, and I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -7db/-8db range, but this is a good example of loudness without sacrificing great sound quality. There appears to be a remastered version issued in 2008, which I have not heard.

10.	*Keb’ Mo’ “Keb’ Mo’” *– I know, it’s really a blues record, but because of its many “commercial” qualities I include it here. What a fabulous sounding record. It’s his first, and in my opinion, his best overall. It was released in 1994 and quickly became one of my favorite records, and a demo staple for me. One listen and you will know why. The sound is so natural, yet dynamic. His voice is so rich and clear, and every instrument is reproduced with amazing clarity. The bass is simply outstanding. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -6db/-7db range, but the sonics definitely do not suffer. 

11.	*Galactic “We Love ‘Em Tonight – Live @ Tipitina’s”* – If you love your rock with a heavy dose of Blues and gumbo, then you gotta check out Galactic. This is an excellent live recording that was released in 2001. The bass is outstanding- tight and detailed. The midrange is not as “open” as that on other records on this list, but overall it’s a well balanced record that will make you tap your feet. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -5db/-6db range.

12.	*Joni Mitchell “Travelogue” *– This is one of my favorite records. It was released in 2002. The dynamic range is amazing. This is one recording that will push your amps toward clipping. Joni reprises her greatest hits with the backing of a large orchestra and some of the greatest Jazz musicians around. The midrange and bass will blow you away. Joni’s voice is beautifully reproduced, and the soundstage is wide and deep. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -6/-7db range.

13.	*Maxwell “Unplugged” *– Wow. What a great record. Another outstanding live recording. It was released in 1997, and I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -7db range. The bass on this record is to die for; it’s deep, tight and rich, with great clarity. The midrange and treble are also fabulous, and the spatial qualities and ambience are top notch. 

14.	*War “The World is a Ghetto” *– I listened to the 1992 Rhino Records reissue. I would peg the intrinsic loudness level somewhere in the -2db range. This record begs to be played loudly, and it rewards you when you do so. The bass is fabulous, and the midrange and treble are clear and natural sounding. Dare we say “analog” sounding? Check out tracks 3 (City, Country, City), 4 (Four Cornered Room) and the title track to hear War at their best. 

15.	*Bob Marley “Legend – The Best of”* – An excellent record. The bass goes so deep, you want to reach for your joint and smoke along with Bob. The vocals could be a bit more open on some of the tracks, but there is little to complain about here. The live tracks are the real sonic standouts. 

16.	*Tracy Chapman “Tracy Chapman”* – There’s great ambience on this record, and it’s well balanced from top to bottom. Tracy’s voice is beautifully reproduced, and the bass is well defined. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -2db/-3db range.

17.	*Donald Fagen “Morph The Cat” *– Another sonic masterpiece from Mr. Fagen. This CD is louder than most Steely Dan offerings, but it’s oh so dynamic. The bass is unbelievable - deep, tight and clean (probably the best bass of any Fagen/Steely Dan record), and the midrange is crystal clear. Every voice and instrument is clearly reproduced. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -5db/-6db range. Crank this one up. 

18.	*India Arie “Acoustic Soul”*- Wow, what a great sounding record. Her voice just drips from the speakers. The midrange clarity and naturalness is something to behold. The bass is a little on the fat side, but isn’t offensive. Released in 2001, I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -5db/-6db range. 

19.	*Neville Brothers “Yellow Moon”* – This is a 1989 release that sounds terrific. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the 0db/-1db range. So, it begs to be cranked up, and if you do so you will appreciate its dynamic range. The midrange could be a bit more “open,” but put on track 4 (A Change is Gonna Come) and you will soon forget this CD's limited shortcomings.

20.	*Ronald Isley “Isley Meets Bacharach”* - Ronald Isley (lead singer for the Isley Brothers) is blessed with a singing voice that few can match, and that belies his age. In this record he does his own interpretations of Burt Bacharach’s greatest songs, and boy does this record deliver. Trust me, if you want to get laid, put this record on.  It is great sounding, with deep, tight bass, and a midrange so pure it’s to die for. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -4db/-5db range.

21.	*Rickie Lee Jones “Pop Pop” *– Released in 1991, this record explores the Jazzier side of Rickie Lee Jones, and features some of the finest Jazz musicians of the time. It is a sonic masterpiece; practically perfect from top to bottom, it represents, in my opinion, one of Bernie Grundman’s best mastering accomplishments. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -3db/-4db range. 

22.	*Van Morrison “Back on Top”* – This recording dates back to 1999 and might be the loudest record on my list. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -8db range. But, it’s really great sounding. Van’s voice is clear, detailed and rich. The midrange is what really shines on this record. 

23.	*Lyle Lovett “I Love Everybody”* – This is another awesome sounding record from Lyle. Recorded in 1994, it was mastered by Doug Sax (Sheffield Records fame) and just sounds no natural and unforced. Top to bottom, very well balanced, with great dynamics and detail. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -2db/-3db range.

24.	*Greyboy “Land of the Lost”* – I love this record. Released in 1995, it’s a fusion of Jazz, Hip-Hop and Rock. It was progressive sounding at the time, and still works today. The sound is well balanced from top to bottom. The bass is stellar, and the spatial qualities are terrific. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is in the -4db/-5db range. 

25.	*Marc Cohn “Walking in Memphis” *– This recording was released in 1991 and has great midrange presence and clarity. Mark’s voice is rich and vivid, and the bass is smooth and deep. The treble is nicely extended. Overall, an extremely well balanced recording. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -5db/-6db range.

26.	*America “History – Greatest Hits”* - Awesome, analog-like recording; beautifully balanced from top to bottom. The version I have is the 1990 release. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -2db/-3db range, and it has great dynamic range. The 2004 version is now on must buy list. It will be interesting to see if they improved on the original. 

27.	*KD Lang “Drag” *– Released in 1997, this is a terrific sounding CD with great dynamics and midrange clarity. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level is somewhere in the -6db/-7db range.

28.	*Everything But The Girl “Acoustic”* – This recording was released in 1992, and it is excellent. Tracey Thorn is blessed with one of the best voices around, and this record really showcases it. Here, everything is stripped down, so her voice stands out. The midrange is clear, and the bass is extended and detailed. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level of this recording is around -7db/-8db. 

29.	*Level 42 “World Machine” *- I had forgotten how much I loved this record. They really knew how to pound out a groove. The sound is fabulous. Great bass, excellent midrange clarity and dynamic punch in the lower octaves. The original recording was released in 1985, and sounds so smooth, largely due to the analog recording and mix. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level of this recording is around -2db/-3db. A remastered version, with deluxe packaging, came out in 2009, and I am now eager to buy that and give it a listen. 

30.	*Eva Cassidy “Live At Blues Alley” *– What a voice. Had she lived longer, I think she would be the standard by which other female singers were judged. She sounds great even on bad recordings, and this one is pretty darn good. This record was released in 1998, two years after her death. The recording quality improves once you get to the second track. I guess the sound engineer needed some warm up time. But when they got it right, it’s a showcase for Eva’s special gift as a singer. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level of this recording is around -6db/-7db.

If you don't have any of these recordings, and my notes encourage you to buy them, happy listening!!

*Bonus Record: 31. * This is one I played this morning and just cannot leave off the list: *Enigma “MCMXC aD”* – Released in 1990 (hence the title), this is one AMAZING record. Gregorian chant is seamlessly fused with New Age themes, thumping, funky bass lines, cool synthesizer generated sound effects, and surreal vocals (including Opera!). This record has a sense of space and realism that is uncanny. It is smooth and detailed, with fully extended bass and treble. The midrange clarity really puts it over the top as you want to reach out and touch the voices that appear in front of you. Many females fell under the Buzzman's spell with this disc spinning.  This record won't be going back into storage anytime soon. Enigma released several records after this that are quite good, but for me this one stands at the mountain top. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level of this recording is around -5db/6db. 

*Bonus Record: 32.* Another one that must be on this list: *Hugh Masekela “Hope” *– Simply put, a stunning live recording. Released in 1994, this was recorded and mixed in analog, and the overall smooth, natural sound of the recording is a pleasure to hear. From top to bottom, this recording is fabulous, and the dynamics, particularly in the lower octaves, are incredible. There is tremendous clarity and detail in the midrange, with vocals and horns coming through crystal clear in the mix, with real presence. I would guess that the intrinsic loudness level of this recording is around -3db/-4db. Turn this one up and feel the power of ensemble drums!


----------



## xxx_busa

AUDIOPHILE CD LIST

SHEFFIELD LABS
1.THE SHEFFIELD JAZZ EXPERIENCE (NEW)( GOLD CD)
2.SONIC DETOUR(NEW)
3.NEW BABY, DON RANDY & QUEST
4.A TALE OF TWO CITIES
5.THE CIOMPI QUARTET
6.PRIME CUTS II 
7.STRAUSS & DVORAK
8.PAT COIL-GOLD( GOLD CD) 
9.PAT COIL-STEPS
10.KODO 
11.THE KING JAMES VERSION, KING JAMES & HIS BIG BAND 
12.MY DISC( GOLD CD) 
13.ROBERT STANTON-ACOUSTIC STORM 
14.THE SHEFFIELD DRUM RECORD
15.THE SHEFFIELD/COUSTIC SETUP & TEST CD
16.CREME DE LA CRÈME
17.SHEFFIELD DRIVE 
18.PRIME CUTS 
19.THE POWER OF SEVEN-UP FRONT 
20.THE USUAL SUSPECTS
21.EARTH CHANTS 
22. POLARITY TESTER & SHEFFIELD TEST CD


STS DIGITAL
1. HEADPHONE ACOUSTIC REFERENCE CD 
2. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 1ST ED.(SACD) 
3. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 2ND ED. 
4. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 3RD ED.
5. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 4TH ED.
6. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 5TH ED. 
7. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 6TH ED.(SACD)
8. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 7TH ED.(SACD)
9. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 8TH ED.(SACD)

OPUS 3
1.SPECIAL 20TH ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION DISC(HDCD)
2.SHOWCASE 2005(SACD)
3.TEST CD 4(SACD)
4.SHOWCASE-DEPTHOF IMAGE,TIMBRE, DYNAMICS(SACD)

FOCAL
1.FOCAL DISC NO.3
2.FOCAL DISC NO.4
3.FOCAL DISC NO.5
4.FOCAL DISC NO.6

TOPMUSIC
1.ROMANCE IN VENICE(SACD)
2.WILSON AUDIO, ULTIMATE REFERENCE CD(SACD)
3.MCINTOSH, DEMO REFERENCE DISC(SACD)
4.THE SYMPHONIC SOUNDSTAGE(SACD)
5.WILSON RESEARCH, VIVALDI FOUR SEASONS(SACD)
6.AMPZILLA 2000, BEN WEBSTER-MY ROMANCE(SACD) 
7.SOUND OF RHYTHM-THE BEST CHINESE MUSIC FOR THE WORLD(SACD)
8.BE ONE AUDIO,THE ONE-REFERENCE VOCAL SOUND(SACD)
9.ELAC, SPIRIT OF SOUND-THE LONDON TRUMPET SOUND(SACD) 
10.TIVOLI AUDIO, NAT KING COLE-THE KING OF SOUND(SACD) 
11.ISOCLEAN POWER, ULTIMATE REFERENCE SACD(SACD) 

FIM
1.FIM SUPER SOUND(XRCD) 
2.FIM SUPER SOUND II(XRCD)
3.FIM AUDIOPHILE REFERENCE II 
4.FIM AUDIOPHILE REFERENCE IV 

TACET
1.THE BEST OF TACET ON SACD 2004/2005(SACD) 
2.DIE ROHRE-THE TUBE(SACD)
3.DAS MIKROFON VOL. 1(SACD) 
4.DAS MIKROFON VOL. 2(SACD) 
5.TACET AUDIOPHILE SAMPLER(SACD) 

TELARC
1.TELARC SACD SAMPLER 1(SACD) 
2.TELARC SACD SAMPLER 2(SACD) 
3.TELARC SACD SAMPLER 3(SACD) 
4.JAZZIN’ SURROUND(SACD) 
5.TELARC SURROUND SOUNDS 2
6.TELARC JAZZ-CELEBRATING 25 YEARS 2CD 
7.MULTICHANNEL SACD SAMPLER(SACD)
8.DAVE BRUBECK QUARTET-LIVE AT STARBUCKS SERIES(LIMITED ED.)
9.TELARC SAMPLER VOL.1 
10.TELARC SAMPLER VOL.2 
11.MUSIC OF TAKEMITSU 
12.TELARC’S GOT THE BLUES 
3.TELARC’S GOT MORE BLUES 
14.THE TELARC COLLECTION VOL.1-10

MFSL
1.ART BLAKEY & THE JAZZ MESSENGERS-A NIGHT IN TUNISIA(GOLD) 
2.THE POLICE-SYNCHRONICITY(GOLD)
3.PINK FLOYD-THE WALL 2CD(GOLD) 
4.KADANS-THE MOSCOW CHAMBER JAZZ ENSEMBLE 
5.JAZZ 84-HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE IXTH MOSCOW JAZZ FESTIVAL 

CHESKY
1.CHESKY RECORDS,STEREO & SURROUND SOUND SETUP DISC 
2.BEST OF CHESKY JAZZ & MORE, AUDIOPHILE TEST DISC VOL.1
3.BEST OF CHESKY JAZZ & MORE, AUDIOPHILE TEST DISC VOL.2
4.BEST OF CHESKY, CLASSICS & JAZZ, AUDIOPHILE TEST DISC VOL.3
5.CHESKY-THE ULTIMATE DEMO DISC
6.CHESKY 10TH ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL ED. JAZZ & WORLD CELEBRATION 2CD 
7.CHESKY 2K SAMPLER 
8.JVC JAZZ FESTIVAL-A NIGHT OF CHESKY JAZZ LIVE 
9.ANA CARAM-BLUE BOSSA 
10.SONGWRITERS, SINGERS 
11.DAVID CHESKY-CLUB DE SOL 
12.BEST OF BRAZIL
13.DAVID CHESKY-THE TANGOS AND DANCES
14.THE NEW YORK CHORINHOS 
15.CHESKY-4 GENERATIONS OF MILES

VARIOUS SACD
1.STOCKFISCH RECORDS-CLOSER TO THE MUSIC(SACD) 
2.JACINTHA-HERE’S TO BEN(NEW)GROOVE NOTE(SACD) 
3.ISOMIKE-KIMBER KABLE(SACD) 
4.FRIENDS OF CARLOTTA-LIVE IN STUDIO, CLEARAUDIO(XRCD) 
5.ALR JORDAN-BASS & DRUMS, THE COLLECTION 3(GOLD) 
6.MIMI LO(SACD) 
7.TAS 2004(SACD) 
8.LINN SELEKTIONS(SACD) 
9.SOMETHING WILD, SOMETHING MILD 2CD(XRCD) 
10.TERESA TENG-ONE & ONLY NHK LIVE 2CD(XRCD)
11.FRANK SINATRA-DUETS(GOLD)DCC
12.DMP MULTICHANNEL REFERENCE CD(NEW)(SACD) 
13.SUPERARTISTS ON SUPER AUDIO(NEW)(SACD)
14.BACH-GOLDBERG VARIATIONS(NEW)(SACD) 
15.DIANA KRALL-THE GIRL IN THE OTHER ROOM(NEW)(SACD)
16.VIVINO BROTHERS-BLUES BAND(NEW)(SACD) 
17.ALISON KRAUSS & UNION STATION-NEW FAVOURITE(NEW)(SACD) 
18.THE CLASSICS SAMPLER(NEW)(SACD)
19.IT’S THE BIRTH OF THE NEW SOUND(NEW)CHALLENGE RECORDS(SACD) 
20.THE CONGA KINGS-JAZZ DESCARGAS(NEW)(SACD) 
21.JVC XRCD SAMPLER(XRCD) 
22.AUDIOPHYSICS CD-SACD STEREO SURROUND SAMPLER(SACD) 
23.DISQUE OFFICIEL DU FESTIVAL,FIDELIO(SACD) 
24.SONY MUSIC MULTICHANNEL SACD SAMPLER(NEW)(SACD) 
25.RS500 SUPER AUDIO CD SAMPLER(SACD)
26.CONCORD JAZZ, SACD SAMPLER(SACD) 

VARIOUS
1.HUGO DEMO DISC 3, HK AUDIOPHILE GREATEST HITS
2.AUDIOPHILE CLASSIC TEST CD 2005, THE IGNITER 
3.TREASURES ISLAND SOUND,ENCORE
4.SUSAN WONG-CLOSE TO YOU
5.VERY BEST, HORN ALBUM BEST PERFORMANCE,VENUS RECORDS 
6.KRAJAN FOREVER-THE GREATEST CLASSICAL HITS 2CD 
7.MUSIQUE-TRIANGLE ELECROACOUSTIQUE 
8.STEREOPHILE EDITOR’S CHOICE, SAMPLER & TEST CD 
9.THE FAMOUS SOUND OF THREE BLIND MICE VOL.1 
10.DUAL-CD DEMONSTRATION 
11.SUITE ESPANOLA, LONDON 
12.KING RECORDS AUDIOPHILE COLLECTION-SFR REFERENCE 
13.JANIS IAN-BREAKING SILENCE
14.SHIZUKA KUDO-SUPER BEST
15.AUDIOPHILE FEMALE VOICES, ROCK IN MUSIC 
16.AUDIOPHILE TEST CD 2005, FORWARD
17.AUDIOPHILE REFERENCE, ROCK IN MUSIC
18.MANGER-PRAZISION IN SCHALL
19.BURMESTER CD II
20.BURMESTER CD III 
21.TAG MCLAREN-TEST TRACKS 01 
22.MARK LEVINSON-RED ROSE MUSIC VOL.1
23.AUDIOQUEST MUSIC, WORKS OF ART VOL.2
24. AUDIOQUEST MUSIC, WORKS OF ART VOL.3
25.THE FI/ANALOGUE PRODUCTIONS SAMPLER
26.DENON HI-FI CHECK CD
27.BOSE-HEAR THE DIFFERENCE 
28.BOSE-LIFESTYLE MUSIC SYSTEM CD 
29.BOSE-CLASSICAL SAMPLER, THE BOSE MUSIC SHOW
30.BOSE-WAVE RADIO CD 
31.BOSE-BLUES
32.GRP DIGITAL SAMPLER, JAZZ VOL.1 LIMITED ED. 
33.REFERENCE CLASSICS-FIRST SAMPLING, REFERENCE RECORDINGS 
34.THE JAZZ SAMPLER, GEMINI/TAURUS RECORDS 
35. TCHAIKOVSKY-1812 OVERTURE, MERCURY 
36.FOUR DRUMMERS DRUMMING-ELECTRICITY 
37.PHILIPS-INCREDIBLE SURROUND TEST CD 
38.PANASONIC-EXPLOSIVE POWER DEMO DISC 
39.PANASONIC-DNA OF SOUND 2 
40.BANG & OLUFSEN-A DIFFERENT WAVES 
41. SONY MOBILE DEMO CD, DISTURB THE PEACE, XPLOD
42.BOSTON ACOUSTICS-CAR SOUND IS OUR RELIGION
43.ALPINE-DISC DRIVE
44.IASCA CD
47.EMMA 2003/2004 COMPETITION DISC 
48.EMMA 2005/2006 COMPETITON DISC
49.MONSTER CABLE-JAZZ
50.BMW AUDIOPHILE DEMO DISC
51.AUDI, JAZZ FROM WARNER BROS 
52.CADILLAC DEMO DISC
53.THE ULTIMATE TEST CD
54.HIFI NEWS & RECORD REVIEW TEST CD II
55.TDK-TEST CD 
56.TDK-TEST CD 
57.SOUNDCHECK I,THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO TEST CD-ALAN PARSONS & STEPHEN COURT 
58. SOUNDCHECK II,THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO TEST CD-ALAN PARSONS & STEPHEN COURT
59.ACOUSTIC AUDIOPHILE VOICES
60.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 1
61.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 2
62.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 3
63.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 4


----------



## tyort1

Jeff Buckley - Grace. Not the most bass, but an incredible acoustic recording.


----------



## Buzzman

tyort1 said:


> Jeff Buckley - Grace. Not the most bass, but an incredible acoustic recording.


Nice call. Are you suggesting the original or the 2004 remaster? There's a difference of opinion among Jeff's fans on which is "better" sounding. Interestingly, you will see Eva Cassidy on my list, and though they died under different circumstances, their short lives and their music legacy are somewhat parallel.


----------



## 6APPEAL

xxx_busa said:


> AUDIOPHILE CD LIST
> 
> SHEFFIELD LABS
> 1.THE SHEFFIELD JAZZ EXPERIENCE (NEW)( GOLD CD)
> 2.SONIC DETOUR(NEW)
> 3.NEW BABY, DON RANDY & QUEST
> 4.A TALE OF TWO CITIES
> 5.THE CIOMPI QUARTET
> 6.PRIME CUTS II
> 7.STRAUSS & DVORAK
> 8.PAT COIL-GOLD( GOLD CD)
> 9.PAT COIL-STEPS
> 10.KODO
> 11.THE KING JAMES VERSION, KING JAMES & HIS BIG BAND
> 12.MY DISC( GOLD CD)
> 13.ROBERT STANTON-ACOUSTIC STORM
> 14.THE SHEFFIELD DRUM RECORD
> 15.THE SHEFFIELD/COUSTIC SETUP & TEST CD
> 16.CREME DE LA CRÈME
> 17.SHEFFIELD DRIVE
> 18.PRIME CUTS
> 19.THE POWER OF SEVEN-UP FRONT
> 20.THE USUAL SUSPECTS
> 21.EARTH CHANTS
> 22. POLARITY TESTER & SHEFFIELD TEST CD
> 
> 
> STS DIGITAL
> 1. HEADPHONE ACOUSTIC REFERENCE CD
> 2. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 1ST ED.(SACD)
> 3. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 2ND ED.
> 4. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 3RD ED.
> 5. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 4TH ED.
> 6. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 5TH ED.
> 7. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 6TH ED.(SACD)
> 8. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 7TH ED.(SACD)
> 9. MARANTZ, HIGHEND AUDIOPHILE TEST DEMO CD 8TH ED.(SACD)
> 
> OPUS 3
> 1.SPECIAL 20TH ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION DISC(HDCD)
> 2.SHOWCASE 2005(SACD)
> 3.TEST CD 4(SACD)
> 4.SHOWCASE-DEPTHOF IMAGE,TIMBRE, DYNAMICS(SACD)
> 
> FOCAL
> 1.FOCAL DISC NO.3
> 2.FOCAL DISC NO.4
> 3.FOCAL DISC NO.5
> 4.FOCAL DISC NO.6
> 
> TOPMUSIC
> 1.ROMANCE IN VENICE(SACD)
> 2.WILSON AUDIO, ULTIMATE REFERENCE CD(SACD)
> 3.MCINTOSH, DEMO REFERENCE DISC(SACD)
> 4.THE SYMPHONIC SOUNDSTAGE(SACD)
> 5.WILSON RESEARCH, VIVALDI FOUR SEASONS(SACD)
> 6.AMPZILLA 2000, BEN WEBSTER-MY ROMANCE(SACD)
> 7.SOUND OF RHYTHM-THE BEST CHINESE MUSIC FOR THE WORLD(SACD)
> 8.BE ONE AUDIO,THE ONE-REFERENCE VOCAL SOUND(SACD)
> 9.ELAC, SPIRIT OF SOUND-THE LONDON TRUMPET SOUND(SACD)
> 10.TIVOLI AUDIO, NAT KING COLE-THE KING OF SOUND(SACD)
> 11.ISOCLEAN POWER, ULTIMATE REFERENCE SACD(SACD)
> 
> FIM
> 1.FIM SUPER SOUND(XRCD)
> 2.FIM SUPER SOUND II(XRCD)
> 3.FIM AUDIOPHILE REFERENCE II
> 4.FIM AUDIOPHILE REFERENCE IV
> 
> TACET
> 1.THE BEST OF TACET ON SACD 2004/2005(SACD)
> 2.DIE ROHRE-THE TUBE(SACD)
> 3.DAS MIKROFON VOL. 1(SACD)
> 4.DAS MIKROFON VOL. 2(SACD)
> 5.TACET AUDIOPHILE SAMPLER(SACD)
> 
> TELARC
> 1.TELARC SACD SAMPLER 1(SACD)
> 2.TELARC SACD SAMPLER 2(SACD)
> 3.TELARC SACD SAMPLER 3(SACD)
> 4.JAZZIN’ SURROUND(SACD)
> 5.TELARC SURROUND SOUNDS 2
> 6.TELARC JAZZ-CELEBRATING 25 YEARS 2CD
> 7.MULTICHANNEL SACD SAMPLER(SACD)
> 8.DAVE BRUBECK QUARTET-LIVE AT STARBUCKS SERIES(LIMITED ED.)
> 9.TELARC SAMPLER VOL.1
> 10.TELARC SAMPLER VOL.2
> 11.MUSIC OF TAKEMITSU
> 12.TELARC’S GOT THE BLUES
> 3.TELARC’S GOT MORE BLUES
> 14.THE TELARC COLLECTION VOL.1-10
> 
> MFSL
> 1.ART BLAKEY & THE JAZZ MESSENGERS-A NIGHT IN TUNISIA(GOLD)
> 2.THE POLICE-SYNCHRONICITY(GOLD)
> 3.PINK FLOYD-THE WALL 2CD(GOLD)
> 4.KADANS-THE MOSCOW CHAMBER JAZZ ENSEMBLE
> 5.JAZZ 84-HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE IXTH MOSCOW JAZZ FESTIVAL
> 
> CHESKY
> 1.CHESKY RECORDS,STEREO & SURROUND SOUND SETUP DISC
> 2.BEST OF CHESKY JAZZ & MORE, AUDIOPHILE TEST DISC VOL.1
> 3.BEST OF CHESKY JAZZ & MORE, AUDIOPHILE TEST DISC VOL.2
> 4.BEST OF CHESKY, CLASSICS & JAZZ, AUDIOPHILE TEST DISC VOL.3
> 5.CHESKY-THE ULTIMATE DEMO DISC
> 6.CHESKY 10TH ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL ED. JAZZ & WORLD CELEBRATION 2CD
> 7.CHESKY 2K SAMPLER
> 8.JVC JAZZ FESTIVAL-A NIGHT OF CHESKY JAZZ LIVE
> 9.ANA CARAM-BLUE BOSSA
> 10.SONGWRITERS, SINGERS
> 11.DAVID CHESKY-CLUB DE SOL
> 12.BEST OF BRAZIL
> 13.DAVID CHESKY-THE TANGOS AND DANCES
> 14.THE NEW YORK CHORINHOS
> 15.CHESKY-4 GENERATIONS OF MILES
> 
> VARIOUS SACD
> 1.STOCKFISCH RECORDS-CLOSER TO THE MUSIC(SACD)
> 2.JACINTHA-HERE’S TO BEN(NEW)GROOVE NOTE(SACD)
> 3.ISOMIKE-KIMBER KABLE(SACD)
> 4.FRIENDS OF CARLOTTA-LIVE IN STUDIO, CLEARAUDIO(XRCD)
> 5.ALR JORDAN-BASS & DRUMS, THE COLLECTION 3(GOLD)
> 6.MIMI LO(SACD)
> 7.TAS 2004(SACD)
> 8.LINN SELEKTIONS(SACD)
> 9.SOMETHING WILD, SOMETHING MILD 2CD(XRCD)
> 10.TERESA TENG-ONE & ONLY NHK LIVE 2CD(XRCD)
> 11.FRANK SINATRA-DUETS(GOLD)DCC
> 12.DMP MULTICHANNEL REFERENCE CD(NEW)(SACD)
> 13.SUPERARTISTS ON SUPER AUDIO(NEW)(SACD)
> 14.BACH-GOLDBERG VARIATIONS(NEW)(SACD)
> 15.DIANA KRALL-THE GIRL IN THE OTHER ROOM(NEW)(SACD)
> 16.VIVINO BROTHERS-BLUES BAND(NEW)(SACD)
> 17.ALISON KRAUSS & UNION STATION-NEW FAVOURITE(NEW)(SACD)
> 18.THE CLASSICS SAMPLER(NEW)(SACD)
> 19.IT’S THE BIRTH OF THE NEW SOUND(NEW)CHALLENGE RECORDS(SACD)
> 20.THE CONGA KINGS-JAZZ DESCARGAS(NEW)(SACD)
> 21.JVC XRCD SAMPLER(XRCD)
> 22.AUDIOPHYSICS CD-SACD STEREO SURROUND SAMPLER(SACD)
> 23.DISQUE OFFICIEL DU FESTIVAL,FIDELIO(SACD)
> 24.SONY MUSIC MULTICHANNEL SACD SAMPLER(NEW)(SACD)
> 25.RS500 SUPER AUDIO CD SAMPLER(SACD)
> 26.CONCORD JAZZ, SACD SAMPLER(SACD)
> 
> VARIOUS
> 1.HUGO DEMO DISC 3, HK AUDIOPHILE GREATEST HITS
> 2.AUDIOPHILE CLASSIC TEST CD 2005, THE IGNITER
> 3.TREASURES ISLAND SOUND,ENCORE
> 4.SUSAN WONG-CLOSE TO YOU
> 5.VERY BEST, HORN ALBUM BEST PERFORMANCE,VENUS RECORDS
> 6.KRAJAN FOREVER-THE GREATEST CLASSICAL HITS 2CD
> 7.MUSIQUE-TRIANGLE ELECROACOUSTIQUE
> 8.STEREOPHILE EDITOR’S CHOICE, SAMPLER & TEST CD
> 9.THE FAMOUS SOUND OF THREE BLIND MICE VOL.1
> 10.DUAL-CD DEMONSTRATION
> 11.SUITE ESPANOLA, LONDON
> 12.KING RECORDS AUDIOPHILE COLLECTION-SFR REFERENCE
> 13.JANIS IAN-BREAKING SILENCE
> 14.SHIZUKA KUDO-SUPER BEST
> 15.AUDIOPHILE FEMALE VOICES, ROCK IN MUSIC
> 16.AUDIOPHILE TEST CD 2005, FORWARD
> 17.AUDIOPHILE REFERENCE, ROCK IN MUSIC
> 18.MANGER-PRAZISION IN SCHALL
> 19.BURMESTER CD II
> 20.BURMESTER CD III
> 21.TAG MCLAREN-TEST TRACKS 01
> 22.MARK LEVINSON-RED ROSE MUSIC VOL.1
> 23.AUDIOQUEST MUSIC, WORKS OF ART VOL.2
> 24. AUDIOQUEST MUSIC, WORKS OF ART VOL.3
> 25.THE FI/ANALOGUE PRODUCTIONS SAMPLER
> 26.DENON HI-FI CHECK CD
> 27.BOSE-HEAR THE DIFFERENCE
> 28.BOSE-LIFESTYLE MUSIC SYSTEM CD
> 29.BOSE-CLASSICAL SAMPLER, THE BOSE MUSIC SHOW
> 30.BOSE-WAVE RADIO CD
> 31.BOSE-BLUES
> 32.GRP DIGITAL SAMPLER, JAZZ VOL.1 LIMITED ED.
> 33.REFERENCE CLASSICS-FIRST SAMPLING, REFERENCE RECORDINGS
> 34.THE JAZZ SAMPLER, GEMINI/TAURUS RECORDS
> 35. TCHAIKOVSKY-1812 OVERTURE, MERCURY
> 36.FOUR DRUMMERS DRUMMING-ELECTRICITY
> 37.PHILIPS-INCREDIBLE SURROUND TEST CD
> 38.PANASONIC-EXPLOSIVE POWER DEMO DISC
> 39.PANASONIC-DNA OF SOUND 2
> 40.BANG & OLUFSEN-A DIFFERENT WAVES
> 41. SONY MOBILE DEMO CD, DISTURB THE PEACE, XPLOD
> 42.BOSTON ACOUSTICS-CAR SOUND IS OUR RELIGION
> 43.ALPINE-DISC DRIVE
> 44.IASCA CD
> 47.EMMA 2003/2004 COMPETITION DISC
> 48.EMMA 2005/2006 COMPETITON DISC
> 49.MONSTER CABLE-JAZZ
> 50.BMW AUDIOPHILE DEMO DISC
> 51.AUDI, JAZZ FROM WARNER BROS
> 52.CADILLAC DEMO DISC
> 53.THE ULTIMATE TEST CD
> 54.HIFI NEWS & RECORD REVIEW TEST CD II
> 55.TDK-TEST CD
> 56.TDK-TEST CD
> 57.SOUNDCHECK I,THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO TEST CD-ALAN PARSONS & STEPHEN COURT
> 58. SOUNDCHECK II,THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO TEST CD-ALAN PARSONS & STEPHEN COURT
> 59.ACOUSTIC AUDIOPHILE VOICES
> 60.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 1
> 61.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 2
> 62.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 3
> 63.BEST AUDIOPHILE VOICES 4


That is quite a list. I have quite a few of those. Gotta investigate to find a few more.
John


----------



## Buzzman

I intend to periodically bring this thread alive with updates as I acquire more CDs and get access to my collection that is now sitting in boxes. In keeping with the intent of this thread to identify "reference quality" commercial/popular recordings - that is, recordings that provide immense musical enjoyment and sonic pleasure, and will likely appeal to a broader spectrum of music lovers/listeners than say Jazz, Classical or the "audiophile" fare we are often exposed to at listening sessions - I offer the following must haves for your CD collection and audio auditioning purposes: 

*Bettye LaVette – Interpretations: The British Rock Songbook
*
Very rarely does music interpretation and performance, and recording engineering quality, coalesce into as fine a reproduction of the two arts as they do on this record. I must confess that notwithstanding my broad musical taste and vast knowledge of the art, I had not heard of Bettye LaVette until I heard her sing “A Change Is Gonna Come” as a duet with Jon Bon Jovi at President O’Bama’s Inauguration. I was instantly captivated by the power, passion, timbral quality and depth of her voice, especially given her age. She was 63 then, and at time she made this record, which, in my humble opinion, is quite easily one of the best records (regardless of genre) I have heard in the last decade! 

On this record Bettye tackles some of the greatest rock songs recorded by legendary British bands and singers: The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Who, Derek & The Dominoes, Elton John, Traffic, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, The Animals, Elton John, Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and George Harrison. Bettye proceeds to flip each song a full 180 degrees, rendering interpretations with a soul, blues and gospel blend that make them entirely distinct from the original. Bettye really puts her personal stamp on these songs, and this recording is a showcase for her interpretative and vocal abilities. In most cases you would think the original and Bettye’s interpretation are two different songs. I compared several of Bettye’s interpretations with the original, and in each case I “felt” the song more when Bettye sang it. Just give a listen to her renditions of “No Time To Live,” “All My Love,” “Nights In White Satin,” and “Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me,” for example. You will instantly know what I mean. Bettye sounds half her age, and her work on this record should serve as a reference for what young singers should aspire to accomplish with a song. 

I would peg this recording at around -8db on the “intrinsic loudness level” meter that I have referenced in earlier posts. But, the loudness level is not such that the overall tonal balance suffers. The bass is tight and well defined, there is excellent midbass impact, the midrange and treble are reproduced with great clarity and spatial qualities, and the soundstage has excellent depth and width. But, the real star of this record is Bettye’s voice and her interpretations of these great songs. Her voice is the focal point in the soundstage, as it should be, and is palpably real. It is rendered with a somewhat “dry,” “gritty” quality befitting her interpretations, allowing you to feel her pain, and her joy, with every word she sings. Highly Recommended.

*Bob Marley and The Wailers: Legend (The Best Of) – Deluxe Edition 
* 

Bob Marley recorded some of the greatest songs ever. His recordings combined not just great music, but in many cases outstanding sound engineering. I have the pleasure of owning many of Bob’s recordings in LP format, and the original analog recordings simply blow away the digital versions that have followed. Well, I recently acquired a copy of the “Deluxe Edition” of “Legend,” Bob’s greatest hits compilation which was released in 2002, and was quite impressed with what I heard. I would guess that this recording is around -6db on the “intrinsic loudness level” meter that I have referenced in earlier posts, and that it is about 2 db louder than the original CD version. Accounting for this loudness difference, it still simply kicks the original version’s ass, from top to bottom. This is a wonderfully balanced recording, with excellent dynamics. The bass is deeper and more extended, and is rendered with greater clarity, than in the original. The midrange is smoother and much more detailed, and background vocals and percussion instruments are no longer hidden in the mix. The treble is much more extended, with more air and sparkle. The spatial qualities inherent in these songs are more obvious now, and you get a better sense of the recording venue and the artifacts it contributes to the recording. On “No Woman, No Cry,” which was recorded live, you really get a sense of being at that performance, with the backing organ and audience being much more “present” now. The echoes in the studio on “Redemption Song” are even more discernible now. The opening intro of “Exodus” is amazing, with the piano, guitars, percussion and bass placed with great separation, wide and deep within the soundstage, and sounding life-sized. With the “Deluxe Edition” you also get a second CD consisting of various remixes of various songs from the Legend CD and others released on other albums by Bob. They all have their virtues, with most clearly intended for DJ use in the dance club. But, one track that really stands out for me is the Julian Mendelsohn remix of “Waiting In Vain” which I think is sonically superior to the original release. Julian has accomplished more precise placement of the instruments in the soundstage, particularly the organ and guitars which are now better located, and the overall tonal balance is better, with the bass not as dominant. This CD is Highly Recommended.


----------



## snaimpally

MarkZ said:


> It's "ignorant" not to like any of that music? [I actually like "Sea Change", but whatever...]
> 
> I think you guys are doing things backwards. Audio systems are supposed to be the vehicle for listening to music that you like. Not the other way around! That's my contribution.


I have a good audio system, and I have discovered that I tend to gravitate towards good sounding source material. I am listening to a lot of music I wouldn't normally listen to just because its so well recorded. Meanwhile, I don't listen to some of the music I used to listen to because my system reveals the flaws. I am now more into stuff that shows off my system, even if I'm just showing it off to myself. 

The purpose of the thread is to discuss "reference quality commercial recordings". You are free to contribute any CDs you think may be reference quality.

Here are a few contributions:

Any Cowboy Junkies album. Everyone talks of the Trinity Sessions but their other albums are equally well recorded.
Hugh Masekela - Hope. Worth checking out. A superb sounding live recording. The bass drum and brass are very well recorded.
Doug McLeod - Whose Truth Whose Lies - This is on Audioquest and is amazing. I don't like all the artists on Audioquest but McLeod is awesome. The clarity is startling.
Yello - All of their albums have a very full range of frequencies and the soundstaging is excellent. 
Rippingtons - 20th Anniv.
Rolling Stones - all the DSD masters sound like the band was recorded in a modern studio. I've rediscovered the Stones.
BT - Emotional Technology and Movement in Still Life (2 CD UK release) -Lots of good stuff, especially the bass.
Madonna - Ray Of Light - Produced by William Orbit. Excellent SQ.


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## MarkZ

"Reference quality" was never defined. It can't be defined, because it's ********.


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## kyheng

^X2, cannot be agree more with this statement. Reference is taking from what ground? From a self claim audiophile brand? Rather than it justifies to put a higher price tag on the CD, I can't find any other reason that it will sound better than other normal CDs. Unless the "audiophile" brands can prove that their recordings are done based on 48bit standard. Else it is just a CD. Another success of marketing gimmick and thanks to all the people that supported it blindly.


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## NRA4ever

Great list. I have many of the Sheffield lab cds. I use many of the cds listed by Buzzman. I have many gold cds mostly remasters of Pink Floyd & other 70s rock bands. The Quincy Jones Back In Black is a great cd. I'll check out some of the ones I don't own.


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## snaimpally

kyheng said:


> ^X2, cannot be agree more with this statement. Reference is taking from what ground? From a self claim audiophile brand? Rather than it justifies to put a higher price tag on the CD, I can't find any other reason that it will sound better than other normal CDs. Unless the "audiophile" brands can prove that their recordings are done based on 48bit standard. Else it is just a CD. Another success of marketing gimmick and thanks to all the people that supported it blindly.


Both of you seem to miss the point of the whole thread. Just good SQ CDs. Not all of them have special labels or are high priced or are called audiophile. Did you click on the original link of John Vestman? Reference means it is a well produced _commercial_ CD. Many are popular hit records, but have a really good sound. Vestman is suggesting that other engineers listen to these because they are all good examples of good SQ CDs. Thats it. If you don't get what Buzzman is trying to do then please stop posting in the thread since you are not adding anything useful to the discussion.

Depending on how many years you have behind a console, we recommend listening to commercial CDs at every stage of a recording. CDs allow you to hear the end result of the pros who are making musical history and to learn from their success.

_NOTE: These CDs all sound very different - and the more your system reveals those differences, the more accurate it is. Most of these albums are a few (or more) years old. Mixing Reference CD's should stand the test of time. We recommend these because they are not heavily based around gimicky ideas or trends._


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## snaimpally

It was interesting to see, like a few others have mentioned, that many of the reccomendations on Vestman's list are CDs that my wife listens to, such as Dixie Chicks, Allison Krause, Celine, Corrs, etc.

One thing about Steely Dan, the musicianship and production is great, I just can't stand the vocals.


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## snaimpally

MarkZ said:


> "Reference quality" was never defined. It can't be defined, because it's ********.


Examples of Great Sounding Commercial CDs

Fine, lets change the word "reference" to great sounding or great SQ.


----------



## MarkZ

snaimpally said:


> Both of you seem to miss the point of the whole thread. Just good SQ CDs. Not all of them have special labels or are high priced or are called audiophile. Did you click on the original link of John Vestman? Reference means it is a well produced _commercial_ CD. Many are popular hit records, but have a really good sound. Vestman is suggesting that other engineers listen to these because they are all good examples of good SQ CDs. Thats it. If you don't get what Buzzman is trying to do then please stop posting in the thread since you are not adding anything useful to the discussion.
> 
> Depending on how many years you have behind a console, we recommend listening to commercial CDs at every stage of a recording. CDs allow you to hear the end result of the pros who are making musical history and to learn from their success.
> 
> _NOTE: These CDs all sound very different - and the more your system reveals those differences, the more accurate it is. Most of these albums are a few (or more) years old. Mixing Reference CD's should stand the test of time. We recommend these because they are not heavily based around gimicky ideas or trends._


What you consider simple is _far_ more complex than you even realize. The fact that you don't think these points are debatable tells me that you've never considered them before. It's like when people in the "which brand speaker wires should I buy?" threads tell doubters that their contributions are worthless because they're not providing any brands.

It's usually a good idea for people to read opposing points of view, for just about every subject. That's how we learn.


----------



## MarkZ

snaimpally said:


> Examples of Great Sounding Commercial CDs
> 
> Fine, lets change the word "reference" to great sounding or great SQ.


I have a couple of those. I can make them sound great on a boom box. People think you need "revealing" systems to get the most out of some of these albums, but the opposite is usually true. Simple systems sound best with "SQ" cds (read: low energy content, usually lacking lower midrange) because they're generally easy to reproduce. It's a great trick that salesmen have been using for years. If my music collection consisted of the CDs on that website, I'd have spent a small fraction of the money and the energy on my audio systems than what I did.

And...

Too much weight is given to level on these recordings. Yes, level is important, but it's not the singular variable like it's being presented in so many of these lists. Count the clipped samples on a lot of remasters and they're usually higher. Compression is usually greater. Yet, more often than not, they sound better. [Official remasters, at least...] Level and compression are, IMO, only problems if they're abused to excess.


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## snaimpally

MarkZ said:


> What you consider simple is _far_ more complex than you even realize. The fact that you don't think these points are debatable tells me that you've never considered them before. It's like when people in the "which brand speaker wires should I buy?" threads tell doubters that their contributions are worthless because they're not providing any brands.
> 
> It's usually a good idea for people to read opposing points of view, for just about every subject. That's how we learn.


No, I realize how complex it is. I am a musician, I have a home studio, I have recorded in professional studios, and have been involved in different aspects of music for a long time. But your two line "********" answers contribute nothing. I have no problem reading opposing viewpoints if they are properly articulated. However, not all of your posts have been articulate as the one above. Just ****ting on other people's posts is not an "opposing viewpoint".

And I disagree with your point that reference cannot be defined. To a certain extent it is like the supreme court justice who said "I can't define pornography but I know it when I see it", but generally good SQ recordings have a good dynamic range (compared to the many compressed recordings), are well recorded (i.e. the frequencies of the vocals and different instruments are accurately captured), there is a good soundstage, etc.


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## tyort1

Roger Waters "Amused to Death" has some amazing Q-Sound imaging stuff going on in it.


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## snaimpally

MarkZ said:


> I have a couple of those. I can make them sound great on a boom box. People think you need "revealing" systems to get the most out of some of these albums, but the opposite is usually true. Simple systems sound best with "SQ" cds (read: low energy content, usually lacking lower midrange) because they're generally easy to reproduce. It's a great trick that salesmen have been using for years.


Yeah, I read your post bragging about your experience at Circuit City selling boomboxes.  Again though, I think you have missed the point. The engineers who take the time to really engineer their CDs, listen to the material on a variety of speakers - often they will have multiple monitor speakers in the control room, they engineer so that the music sounds great on ANY system, whether its a boombox or a ten thousand dollar stereo. That is engineering. When it sounds good anywhere you play it, the recording engineer earned his money. You should read some interviews with recording engineers and read what the better ones do to get a good recording.

I agree that its easy to compress the sound and goose the bass and treble so that it sounds great on a boombox but artificial elsewhere. There are plenty of those recordings. On a good stereo, those recordings reveal themselves as sounding artificially bright and/or bassy. But this thread is for those recordings that make ANY system sound good - that is not as easy as it sounds. Perhaps that is the definition of reference for you, that it sounds good on boombox AND on a quality stereo system. Most of the crap played on the radio can't do that. 

Contrary to what you assert, its not that easy to reproduce low bass notes on a boombox. 

Anyway, the original purpose of this thread was to share some good SQ recordings, stuff that is well recorded, has good dynamics, and a broad frequency range; either contribute or start your own thread.


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## snaimpally

Back to our original programming. There are some good CD compilations made by equipment manufacturers:

Alpine - Speed of Sound (1 CD)
Boston Acoustics - Rally Bass (3 CDs)
Focal/JM Labs (6 CDs)
B&W Audiophile Recordings
Burmester II and III

These CDs compile songs from many different artists in many different genres.


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## MarkZ

snaimpally said:


> No, I realize how complex it is. I am a musician, I have a home studio, I have recorded in professional studios, and have been involved in different aspects of music for a long time. But your two line "********" answers contribute nothing. I have no problem reading opposing viewpoints if they are properly articulated. However, not all of your posts have been articulate as the one above. Just ****ting on other people's posts is not an "opposing viewpoint".
> 
> And I disagree with your point that reference cannot be defined. To a certain extent it is like the supreme court justice who said "I can't define pornography but I know it when I see it", but generally good SQ recordings have a good dynamic range (compared to the many compressed recordings), are well recorded (i.e. the frequencies of the vocals and different instruments are accurately captured), there is a good soundstage, etc.


Like I said, dynamic range is overrated. There's such a thing as too much dynamic range. If there wasn't, you wouldn't use compressors when you record.  I can think of several records that are TOO dynamic. I think it's a terrible metric to use to define "SQ" I think it's sprung up as a reaction to the advent of the "loudness war".

I also think "soundstage" is waaaay too variable to be of any use at all in defining recordings. There are recordings where soundstage is an afterthought. There are some recordings where they reverb the holy **** out of the entire vocal mix and distribute it across both channels. Grab a copy of Pygmalion by Slowdive. You'll find that in some tracks "soundstage" is intentionally muddied. I posted a link earlier in the thread to a song by a band called Low, where they recorded the whole album in a _very_ unconventional way. They took the concept of "soundstage" and raped it in the ass. Vocals and main instruments in the right channel, ambience and background in the left. _100% panned_. I'm personally not a big fan of it, but who's to say they're wrong? It's "what the artist intended", which is usually what people get a big woody over. So either this is excellent reference quality, or it's terrible reference quality. I can't decide which, because I don't know what "reference quality" means (as I said, I'd argue that there's no such thing).

That's not to say that there aren't some BAD recordings out there. There certainly are. I've got some records that were recorded on a cheap 4 track in a basement with a single mic. But I also think it's a very bad idea to try to argue that recordings should conform to some universal definition of "sound quality", especially when you can't even define what it is.

My observation in this thread is that people are touting recordings that _mask the deficiencies of their sound system_ and call them "SQ recordings". It was funny, even when my tuning was screwed up a couple weeks ago, I still got Sea Change to sound good on it when demoing the system for my friend.


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## MarkZ

snaimpally said:


> Yeah, I read your post bragging about your experience at Circuit City selling boomboxes.  Again though, I think you have missed the point. The engineers who take the time to really engineer their CDs, listen to the material on a variety of speakers - often they will have multiple monitor speakers in the control room, they engineer so that the music sounds great on ANY system, whether its a boombox or a ten thousand dollar stereo. That is engineering. When it sounds good anywhere you play it, the recording engineer earned his money. You should read some interviews with recording engineers and read what the better ones do to get a good recording.
> 
> I agree that its easy to compress the sound and goose the bass and treble so that it sounds great on a boombox but artificial elsewhere. There are plenty of those recordings. On a good stereo, those recordings reveal themselves as sounding artificially bright and/or bassy. But this thread is for those recordings that make ANY system sound good - that is not as easy as it sounds. Perhaps that is the definition of reference for you, that it sounds good on boombox AND on a quality stereo system. Most of the crap played on the radio can't do that.
> 
> Contrary to what you assert, its not that easy to reproduce low bass notes on a boombox.
> 
> Anyway, the original purpose of this thread was to share some good SQ recordings, stuff that is well recorded, has good dynamics, and a broad frequency range; either contribute or start your own thread.


Thanks for playing king of DIYMA. Feel free to ask a mod to move or delete my posts if you don't like them.

No one said anything about bass or treble boosting. That usually sounds like ass on just about anything you play it back on. What you fail to notice is the general energy content _inherent_ in 95% of the recordings on that list. They're not necessarily simple to reproduce because of what the engineers did. 

There are certain things that are just EASIER to engineer than other things. eg. Single mic'd vocals can be a lot easier to mix than multiplacement or delayed recording. Mix a 5 mic studio and compare that to a booth. But I'm sure you'd say the booth is "SQ" and everything else isn't. 

IMO, recording is less science and more art than you give it credit for.


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## onebadmonte

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not. The sound track to the movie O'Brother Where Art'Thou is pretty good.


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## MarkZ

snaimpally said:


> Anyway, the original purpose of this thread was to share some good SQ recordings, stuff that is well recorded, has good dynamics, and a broad frequency range; either contribute or start your own thread.


One more thing. I said what I had to say long ago, and then let everyone else continue on with their polish-a-turd lists. It wasn't until you dredged up my old posts that I was dragged back into this. If you're really not interested in what I have to say, then don't quote & argue with my posts.


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## Buzzman

tyort1 said:


> Roger Waters "Amused to Death" has some amazing Q-Sound imaging stuff going on in it.


Yes! I just pulled my CBS Mastersound copy of this CD out of one of my storage boxes and was going to add it to the list.  It's definitely a "fun" record with the same acoustical tricks he used on the various Pink Floyd records. The track I recommend most is "What God Wants" - it will definitely allow you to test the frequency response and soundstaging capabilities of your system.


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## Buzzman

onebadmonte said:


> I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not. The sound track to the movie O'Brother Where Art'Thou is pretty good.


Yo Monte, great call. For those who love country, blues, bluegrass, folk, and gospel music, highly recommended. T-Bone Burnett did a terrific production job here. I have to go back and check who did the engineering work, but the sound is so natural, clear and balanced, top to bottom, offering terrific realism. 

Speaking of soundtracks, one of my all time favorites is the soundtrack from *"The Commitments." * I haven't listened to it in a while, so now I am motivated to go digging through my boxes to find it. There are 2 volumes, and I prefer Vol. 1. If you love the Motown "sound" and great R&B, these Irish performers really satisfy. Which reminds me of my favorite dialogue sequence in the film: The band manager assembles the group of musicians and singers he has recruited, then he is asked "what kind of music are we gonna be playin?" He responds "soul music." To which one of the performers responds "Aren't we a bit too white?" Band Manager: "...the Irish are the Blacks of Europe." :laugh: I expected Andrew Strong, the lead singer in the group, to be a star for years to come when I first heard him sing in the movie. At age 16 he had a voice that was so rich, and so mature, with all the power, soul and grit you expect from someone much older. His version of "Try A Little Tenderness" would have made Otis Redding proud. Anyway, this is a record with great music, and great sound engineering. The original 1991 release sounded great, and a deluxe version was released in 2007, with remastered versions of the tracks. I have not heard it. Hmmm. I guess I will have to buy that now too.


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## Wesayso

Buzzman said:


> Since you seem to really like the Dan, I also highly recommend Pretzel Logic and Katy Lied. Again, great music and great sound. They pre-date Royal Scam, and showcase the group's progression from a rock based group to a duo influenced more by Jazz and R&B, backed by outstanding studio musicians, and provide a view into what their future releases would be like. For example, compare Dr. Wu off of Katy Lied, and fast forward to the title track from Aja. You will see what I mean.


You'd also might like Rosie Vela - Zazu 1986 ... Should fit in seeing it was her that brought back 2 members of Steely Dan after quite a while to make her album...

I don't know about the SQ of Zasu and if it was ever released on CD but I remember loving that album on vinyl. I'll look for it though, this thread made me think of that album again as my vinyl collection is gathering dust on the attic.


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## onebadmonte

Buzzman said:


> Yo Monte, great call. For those who love country, blues, bluegrass, folk, and gospel music, highly recommended. T-Bone Burnett did a terrific production job here. I have to go back and check who did the engineering work, but the sound is so natural, clear and balanced, top to bottom, offering terrific realism.
> 
> Speaking of soundtracks, one of my all time favorites is the soundtrack from *"The Commitments." * I haven't listened to it in a while, so now I am motivated to go digging through my boxes to find it. There are 2 volumes, and I prefer Vol. 1. If you love the Motown "sound" and great R&B, these Irish performers really satisfy. Which reminds me of my favorite dialogue sequence in the film: The band manager assembles the group of musicians and singers he has recruited, then he is asked "what kind of music are we gonna be playin?" He responds "soul music." To which one of the performers responds "Aren't we a bit too white?" Band Manager: "...the Irish are the Blacks of Europe." :laugh: I expected Andrew Strong, the lead singer in the group, to be a star for years to come when I first heard him sing in the movie. At age 16 he had a voice that was so rich, and so mature, with all the power, soul and grit you expect from someone much older. His version of "Try A Little Tenderness" would have made Otis Redding proud. Anyway, this is a record with great music, and great sound engineering. The original 1991 release sounded great, and a deluxe version was released in 2007, with remastered versions of the tracks. I have not heard it. Hmmm. I guess I will have to buy that now too.


A little off topic here. Buzzman, that is an excellent flick. I was in California for the first time when I saw that movie. Ah, the memories.


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## Buzzman

Wesayso said:


> You'd also might like Rosie Vela - Zazu 1986 ... Should fit in seeing it was her that brought back 2 members of Steely Dan after quite a while to make her album...
> 
> I don't know about the SQ of Zasu and if it was ever released on CD but I remember loving that album on vinyl. I'll look for it though, this thread made me think of that album again as my vinyl collection is gathering dust on the attic.


Wow, I must confess this record is new to me, and I thought I knew everything Steely Dan related. Nothing like being enlightened.  How could I have missed this one back in '86?!  After reading your post I immediately went scrambling to find out what I could about this record, and since I have to own anything associated with The Dan, the reviews are just icing on the cake. Yes there is a CD version released in 1989 and a remastered version released in 2003. The vinyl version can still be found too. But, man, the prices they are asking for the CD are really up there because it's a Japanese only production. So, I am am going to reach out to Phass in Japan and see if they can locate a copy for me locally


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## Buzzman

onebadmonte said:


> A little off topic here. Buzzman, that is an excellent flick. I was in California for the first time when I saw that movie. Ah, the memories.


No problem with the OT. Excellent flick, indeed. And think about this, what was the last bad film you saw that had a great soundtrack?


----------



## snaimpally

MarkZ said:


> Thanks for playing king of DIYMA. Feel free to ask a mod to move or delete my posts if you don't like them.
> 
> No one said anything about bass or treble boosting. That usually sounds like ass on just about anything you play it back on. What you fail to notice is the general energy content _inherent_ in 95% of the recordings on that list. They're not necessarily simple to reproduce because of what the engineers did.
> 
> There are certain things that are just EASIER to engineer than other things. eg. Single mic'd vocals can be a lot easier to mix than multiplacement or delayed recording. Mix a 5 mic studio and compare that to a booth. But I'm sure you'd say the booth is "SQ" and everything else isn't.
> 
> IMO, recording is less science and more art than you give it credit for.


I'm not playing king - I'm just saying if you don't have anything to contribute, don't. I agree with you that recording is less science and more art - that is why if you look at the really good SQ stuff, you tend to see the same names - Allan Parsons, Bob Ludwig, etc. Its like movies and directors - I tend to have favorite directors and go watch their movies. It doesn't matter what the genre, the engineer/director knows how to make great recording/movie. 

Mixing is very tricky. When I had my home studio I found recording was relatively easy - getting a mix that sounded good everywhere it was played was tricky. That is where the art comes in. I would monitor on headphones and nearfields to do the initial mix and then listen to it on my home stereo, in my car etc and then discover all kinds of problems. I would then continue to tweak the mix until it sounded good everywhere. That is the art, getting a mix that sounds good no matter what type of equipment it is played on. Not many engineers can do that.

Your two main points seem to be:
1. Your first point is that a really good system is needed to make a mediocre recording sound good. I agree. But its hard to make this happen in a car unless you spend a lot of money. In a home audio environment, this can be more easily attained.

2. Your second point, is that CDs that make boomboxes sound good are not good SQ recordings. This I disagree with. I would say that there are 3 types of recordings. 

First, the medicore recordings that, don't sound great on an ordinary system but sound good on a great system, as per your point above. 

Second, there are heavily processed CDs that are designed to sound good on medicore equipment - lots of EQ and compression. Heard on a good system, you can hear the aritifacts (pumping and breathing of the compression, brittle or harsh top end, exaggerated low end, etc).

Third, the good SQ CDs that sound good on any equipment, boombox or $30,000 stereo. Thats where the artistry of the engineer, as you yourself said, it is more art than science, comes in. The processed CDs rely on science, the good SQ CDs rely on art.

You lump the second and third categories together. Both types of recordings will sound good on a boombox, but only the third category will sound good on a really good system.


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## WRX/Z28

If your system makes it so you don't want to listen to your favorite music, there's something wrong. I agree with the notion of listening to your music, not your stereo. 

That being said, there's nothing wrong with letting your setup get you excited about new types of music, and searching for great recordings to play loud. Everyone does this, whether they want to admit it or not...


----------



## MarkZ

snaimpally said:


> I'm not playing king - I'm just saying if you don't have anything to contribute, don't. I agree with you that recording is less science and more art - that is why if you look at the really good SQ stuff, you tend to see the same names - Allan Parsons, Bob Ludwig, etc. Its like movies and directors - I tend to have favorite directors and go watch their movies. It doesn't matter what the genre, the engineer/director knows how to make great recording/movie.


Haha you've seen spartacus, right? Kubrick did a lot of wonderful things, but there were certain movies where he screwed the pooch (giving a pass here to Paths of Glory, though I shouldn't...). Spielberg the same way. Tarantino, Shamalan, Scorcese, etc. Actually, I can't think of many directors who have done a good job across genres or styles. David Lean maybe? But then Great Expectations was an atrocity (he was young though).



> Mixing is very tricky. When I had my home studio I found recording was relatively easy - getting a mix that sounded good everywhere it was played was tricky. That is where the art comes in. I would monitor on headphones and nearfields to do the initial mix and then listen to it on my home stereo, in my car etc and then discover all kinds of problems. I would then continue to tweak the mix until it sounded good everywhere. That is the art, getting a mix that sounds good no matter what type of equipment it is played on. Not many engineers can do that.
> 
> Your two main points seem to be:
> 1.  Your first point is that a really good system is needed to make a mediocre recording sound good. I agree. But its hard to make this happen in a car unless you spend a lot of money. In a home audio environment, this can be more easily attained.
> 
> 2. Your second point, is that CDs that make boomboxes sound good are not good SQ recordings. This I disagree with. I would say that there are 3 types of recordings.


I've made neither of those points, actually. I'd accept the first point if you replaced "mediocre" with "varied". As I pointed out, there's more than one way to skin a cat. There are lots of decisions made during recording/production that are as much a creative process as the song writing/playing itself. There are lots of albums that are recorded with a particular goal in mind -- there isn't a singular goal and _that's_ why there's no "reference". There are even some albums that have multiple mixes (either rereleases or bootleg/demo releases have emerged), allowing you to hear the same album through two different lenses. That doesn't mean one is closer to "reference" than the other one. It just means they're _different_.



> First, the medicore recordings that, don't sound great on an ordinary system but sound good on a great system, as per your point above.
> 
> Second, there are heavily processed CDs that are designed to sound good on medicore equipment - lots of EQ and compression. Heard on a good system, you can hear the aritifacts (pumping and breathing of the compression, brittle or harsh top end, exaggerated low end, etc).
> 
> Third, the good SQ CDs that sound good on any equipment, boombox or $30,000 stereo. Thats where the artistry of the engineer, as you yourself said, it is more art than science, comes in. The processed CDs rely on science, the good SQ CDs rely on art.
> 
> You lump the second and third categories together. Both types of recordings will sound good on a boombox, but only the third category will sound good on a really good system.


And there are recordings that will sound really good on one $30,000 system (system A) and bad on another $30,000 system (system B). While there are other recordings that will sound bad on system A but good on system B. Which ones are the "reference" recordings? Which one is the better system?


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> If your system makes it so you don't want to listen to your favorite music, there's something wrong. I agree with the notion of listening to your music, not your stereo.
> 
> That being said, there's nothing wrong with letting your setup get you excited about new types of music, and searching for great recordings to play loud. Everyone does this, whether they want to admit it or not...


Not everyone does this.  I generally find new music based on recommendations or on pandora and listen to them on my laptop speakers or on my _very_ ordinary home system. I listen to new albums several times to get to know the songs. Then, if I like it (and I usually don't), it graduates to my car. Nowhere in the process am I looking for something to make my system shine. In fact, the majority of stuff I've gotten in the past year has had some serious flaws in the recording (some of which I can correct by level/EQ, some I can't ... that "Low" record that I referenced earlier I have to listen to in mono ).


----------



## D1g1tal V3n0m

I like all types of music personally. I would prefer everything to be well recorded but unfortunately that is a bit of a dying breed it seems.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, here are 2 more recommendations for musical and sonic excellence that should appeal to a lot of you: *The Subdudes: “Behind The Levee” and “Street Symphony”.*

I had never heard of these dudes (no pun intended) until a week ago. I was having lunch at PF Changs in Scottsdale, trying to escape the 118 degree heat , and this song comes on over the house system that just grabs me and won’t let go. The lead vocalist had a terrific voice, reminiscent of Eric Clapton, the rhythm was catchy, and the lyrics made you think. I asked the bartender who the performer was, he ran to the back, came back and told me it was The Subdudes, and the song was “Poor Man’s Paradise.” So, I get home, jump on the computer and do a search on the band on Amazon.com. I found several of their recordings, including the one with the track that got me interested in them, listened to clips of the tracks on these recordings, and was immediately captivated by this band. They are truly a hidden gem. 

Well, I ordered the two CDS that I am now recommending, listened to them yesterday, and consider them worthy of “reference quality” classification. Why? (And I will elaborate here as this concept continues to be debated in this thread.) - They contain great music and musicianship, along with excellent production and sound engineering, resulting in a highly satisfying, immersive music listening experience. You will want to play them over and over again. As I have articulated (or at least tried to) numerous times in this thread, assuming you like the music, these are the qualities that for me make a record a “reference quality” recording, and these qualities are present in every record I have recommended thus far. Each of these CDs can serve as an example of what, at a minimum, you wish all other recorded performances of the type(s) of music you enjoy were like in finished form. Due to the excellence of the sound engineering of these CDs, when played back through your system or someone else’s they reveal the system’s strengths and weaknesses. Contrary to what has been asserted elsewhere in this thread, they don’t “mask weaknesses” in a system (that’s what a poor recording does) and they don’t “make a system sound better.” The system is what it is; its inherent characteristics don’t change with the substitution of a particular recording. I also want to reiterate that I have focused on “commercial” or “popular” recordings in this thread because it’s in this category that such recordings are extremely hard to come by, and it’s a category of music that more people listen to and buy. 

Now, back to the recommendations:

*“Street Symphony”:* This record was made in 2007 and offers a more diverse “sound” in its music mix than “Behind The Levee.” It really demonstrates the obvious influence bands like the Allman Brothers, Little Feat and The Neville Brothers have had on this New Orleans based quintet. The songs are all terrific, but “Fountain of Youth,” “Poor Man’s Paradise,” “No Man,” “Brother Man,””Work Clothes” and the title track “Street Symphony” are the real standouts for me. This is definitely not one of those modern records that have fallen victim to the loudness wars. Using the “intrinsic loudness level” standard I have referenced before, I would peg this record at around -5db on the loudness meter. You can crank it up without fear of audible distortion, and it’s very well balanced and natural sounding, though a little light in the bottom end when compared to “Behind The Levee.” 

*“Behind The Levee:* This record was made in 2006 and was produced by Keb’ Mo’, who as you know by now is one of my favorite artists. His influence on this record shows, as the songs are more funky and representative of the urban blues than those on “Street Symphony.” Throw in the backing horns of the Dirty Dozen Brass Band and this one will make you wanna dance! Right off the bat with the first two tracks, “Papa Dukie & The Mud People” and “Next To Me,” this record will put a smile on your face. This recording is louder than “Street Symphony” (I would peg it at about -8db on the intrinsic loudness level meter), but not at the expense of great sound. I find the musicians to be more precisely placed in the soundstage on this recording, which offers more robust, extended bass than “Street Symphony.” 

Both Highly Recommended!


----------



## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> OK, here are 2 more recommendations for musical and sonic excellence that should appeal to a lot of you: *The Subdudes: “Behind The Levee” and “Street Symphony”.*
> 
> I had never heard of these dudes (no pun intended) until a week ago. I was having lunch at PF Changs in Scottsdale, trying to escape the 118 degree heat , and this song comes on over the house system that just grabs me and won’t let go. The lead vocalist had a terrific voice, reminiscent of Eric Clapton, the rhythm was catchy, and the lyrics made you think. I asked the bartender who the performer was, he ran to the back, came back and told me it was The Subdudes, and the song was “Poor Man’s Paradise.” So, I get home, jump on the computer and do a search on the band on Amazon.com. I found several of their recordings, including the one with the track that got me interested in them, listened to clips of the tracks on these recordings, and was immediately captivated by this band. They are truly a hidden gem.
> 
> Well, I ordered the two CDS that I am now recommending, listened to them yesterday, and consider them worthy of “reference quality” classification. Why? (And I will elaborate here as this concept continues to be debated in this thread.) - They contain great music and musicianship, along with excellent production and sound engineering, resulting in a highly satisfying, immersive music listening experience. You will want to play them over and over again. As I have articulated (or at least tried to) numerous times in this thread, assuming you like the music, these are the qualities that for me make a record a “reference quality” recording, and these qualities are present in every record I have recommended thus far. Each of these CDs can serve as an example of what, at a minimum, you wish all other recorded performances of the type(s) of music you enjoy were like in finished form. Due to the excellence of the sound engineering of these CDs, when played back through your system or someone else’s they reveal the system’s strengths and weaknesses. Contrary to what has been asserted elsewhere in this thread, they don’t “mask weaknesses” in a system (that’s what a poor recording does) and they don’t “make a system sound better.” *The system is what it is; its inherent characteristics don’t change with the substitution of a particular recording.* I also want to reiterate that I have focused on “commercial” or “popular” recordings in this thread because it’s in this category that such recordings are extremely hard to come by, and it’s a category of music that more people listen to and buy.


The music must have sounded TERRIBLE at pf chang's right? I mean, your logic has been that "great SQ" recordings reveal all of a system's weaknesses, and so the (presumably) very weak system at a restaurant chain must have been revealed with this recording.

My bet is that it sounded pretty good at pf chang's. I'd also bet that there are some recordings out there that would sound absolutely terrible over pf chang's audio system, yet far better on a system with better capabilities. Those recordings would probably not make these "SQ" lists. Which is unfortunate, if your goals are to test the weaknesses of your system. But it illustrates my point perfectly.

Also, the part of your post that I bolded above is _wrong_. Why? Because audio systems are, for the most part, _nonlinear_. This has been discussed in various forms in hundreds of threads in this forum. What you said would be absolutely true if it was a linear system. It's these nonlinearities that destroy linear transfer functions and make the quality (however we choose to define it) of the audio system _dependent on the program material_.

Now it's your turn to ask me what makes audio systems nonlinear systems.


----------



## BigRobRN1

Some of my favorite recordings:

Stevie Ray Vaughn- The Sky is Crying- Original Master Recording, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab

The Sheffield Jazz Experience, Sheffield Gold, 20+->16 Ultra Matrix Processing, Audiophile recording

Michael Ruff- Speaking in Melodies- Sheffield Lab live studio recording

Paul Hardcastle- The Jazzmasters

Boney James- Trust


----------



## Buzzman

Man, you are starting to remind me of my ex wife and the reasons why we got divorced: she loved being adversarial about everything (some kind of adrenalin rush or high I guess), was always picking a fight when there was no reason for one, and she thought she was always right about everything. :laugh:



MarkZ said:


> The music must have sounded TERRIBLE at pf chang's right? I mean, your logic has been that "great SQ" recordings reveal all of a system's weaknesses, and so the (presumably) very weak system at a restaurant chain must have been revealed with this recording. My bet is that it sounded pretty good at pf chang's.


First of all, where in my post did I say that I purchased the Subdudes CD because it sounded great (SQ-wise, that is) over the system at PF Chang? It should have been clear to you from what I wrote (lyrics, rhythm, lead vocalist’s voice) that it was the quality of the music, not the quality of the sound, that got my attention and led me to investigate this band. I made no assumptions about the sonic virtues of the recordings because I could not do so in that setting and under those conditions. The sonic virtues of the Subdudes recordings were ascertained AFTER I purchased the CDs and listened to them in my car, as I clearly said. 

Regarding the SQ of the PF Chang sound system, I couldn’t tell you because I was busy eating my Sesame Chicken, watching the British Open on the TV in front of me, and scoping out the hot brunette at the end of the bar.  The music was just background fill. Considering some of your prior posts I would have expected you to applaud the fact that a music purchase was made based not on sound quality (or presumptions thereof), but on the quality of the music.  



MarkZ said:


> I'd also bet that there are some recordings out there that would sound absolutely terrible over pf chang's audio system, yet far better on a system with better capabilities. Those recordings would probably not make these "SQ" lists. Which is unfortunate, if your goals are to test the weaknesses of your system. But it illustrates my point perfectly.


I have never championed the use of what I consider “reference quality” recordings solely to “test” a system’s weaknesses. I have stated over and over again that finding and listening to these recordings will allow you to maximize the enjoyment of listening to your system. Yes, they will reveal a system’s strengths and weaknesses, and will help the listener determine those areas of their playback system that he/she needs to address for better overall sound quality. But, in my view, no matter the strengths or weaknesses of a playback system, a better quality recording (and I know you keep wanting to debate what that means) of music that you like leads to a better listening experience. I would never expect ANY recording (whether it be what I would consider “reference quality” or not, to sound as good played over a chain restaurant’s system with ceiling mounted speakers as it would over a properly executed audio system intended for music listening. The results will always be relative to the capabilities of the audio system. The better the playback system, the more the qualities (good and bad – whether you think bad is really good or vice versa) of a recording will be revealed. I know the joy of upgrading my playback system and hearing voices, instruments and other details in a recording that I had not previously heard. If a “reference quality” recording sounds great on one system, and poor on another, it’s not the recording that’s at fault, it’s the playback system. 



MarkZ said:


> Also, the part of your post that I bolded above is _wrong_. Why? Because audio systems are, for the most part, _nonlinear_. This has been discussed in various forms in hundreds of threads in this forum. What you said would be absolutely true if it was a linear system. It's these nonlinearities that destroy linear transfer functions and make the quality (however we choose to define it) of the audio system _dependent on the program material_.
> 
> Now it's your turn to ask me what makes audio systems nonlinear systems.


I stand by my statement. The "quality" of a music playback system is dependent on the quality (parts, engineering, etc.) of the electronic components that comprise the system and how they are implemented given their design and capabilities. The quality of what you HEAR, as a listener, is dependent on this system, the environment or "room" in which the system is utilized, and your source material. Changing source material alone will not cure any deficiencies in your playback system and the room in which you listen. Depending on the source material, these deficiencies may well be even more audible and obvious. 


You don't have to listen to any of the recordings that have been recommended in this thread that you don't already own. But, if you don't, it's your loss in my opinion.


----------



## Buzzman

For those of you into music downloads, here is a great site I have been using to get high resolution downloads (96KHz/24bit) of some cool music: 

https://www.hdtracks.com/

Even the stuff based on the "normal" CD sampling rate sounds great. The site is related to Chesky Records.


----------



## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> Man, you are starting to remind me of my ex wife and the reasons why we got divorced: she loved being adversarial about everything (some kind of adrenalin rush or high I guess), was always picking a fight when there was no reason for one, and she thought she was always right about everything. :laugh:


Picking a fight? You said I was wrong and so I defended my points.

I really hate the trend around here lately where people think that having a different opinion is the worst ****ing thing on the planet. Every one of your posts has been "fall in line or find another thread." That attitude is _not_ what made diyma the place it is today.


----------



## trigg007

Willie Nelson - Stardust - Columbia Records

Booker T. Jones' masterpiece; one of the few that will tell you how good your system really is...


----------



## Buzzman

trigg007 said:


> Willie Nelson - Stardust - Columbia Records
> 
> Booker T. Jones' masterpiece; one of the few that will tell you how good your system really is...


The Willie Nelson record is awesome. I have 2 copies on vinyl, but can't attest to the quality of the digital transfer. You threw me for a loop with the Booker T Jones recommendation though. I am not aware of any album by that name. Or, is that a cover of the Temptations' record? Do tell us more.


----------



## Buzzman

BigRobRN1 said:


> Some of my favorite recordings:
> 
> Stevie Ray Vaughn- The Sky is Crying- Original Master Recording, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab. . . .


Check out the remastered version of "Couldn't Stand the Weather" (which is much more readily available than the MFSL version of "The Sky Is Crying", and much cheaper too) and listen to "Tin Pan Alley."  There is a new Legacy edition with this same name that was just released. It has 2 Discs, the second one containing live versions of most of the tracks on the original recording + other live songs! Can't wait to get it and give it a listen.


----------



## trigg007

Buzzman said:


> The Willie Nelson record is awesome. I have 2 copies on vinyl, but can't attest to the quality of the digital transfer. You threw me for a loop with the Booker T Jones recommendation though. I am not aware of any album by that name. Or, is that a cover of the Temptations' record? Do tell us more.




The album was produced and arranged by Booker T. Assuming you actually have one of the more sought after versions of the vinyl copies it could be worth a pretty penny ($500-$1000+).  

The CD version, just like the vinyl (albeit not quite as good) is still one of the best albums ever produced/recorded.


----------



## BigRobRN1

Buzzman said:


> Check out the remastered version of "Couldn't Stand the Weather" (which is much more readily available than the MFSL version of "The Sky Is Crying", and much cheaper too) and listen to "Tin Pan Alley."  There is a new Legacy edition with this same name that was just released. It has 2 Discs, the second one containing live versions of most of the tracks on the original recording + other live songs! Can't wait to get it and give it a listen.


I just might have to do that. 
Thanks!


----------



## Ct Drummer

For you Prog fans, you can't go wrong with anything by Porcupine Tree. Steven Wilson is known for setting his playback levels low so that he can use all of the headroom. And the quality of his recordings is as good as it gets. And for those of you running 5 channel surround, they have a few of their discs in surround sound. Steven Wilson has been nominated for a few Grammys for his Surround Sound recordings. 
Their latest album, The Incident has some huge transients that will push just about any system to it's limit.

Mike


----------



## Buzzman

trigg007 said:


> The album was produced and arranged by Booker T. Assuming you actually have one of the more sought after versions of the vinyl copies it could be worth a pretty penny ($500-$1000+).
> 
> The CD version, just like the vinyl (albeit not quite as good) is still one of the best albums ever produced/recorded.


LOL :laugh: Now it all makes sense. You were referring to Stardust as a Booker T. Jones masterpiece. I agree. But, I had no idea some pressings were fetching that kind of dough.  When I get my LPs out of storage I will have to see whether any of my copies are that desirable. If I can get that kind of money on sale they go and I will hunt down a copy of the Classic Records reissue on 200 Gram Vinyl. 

I also highly recommend "Always On My Mind" and "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" (both of which I also have on vinyl), the follow-ups to "Stardust" in Willie's "Standards/Pop" phase, but again I can't attest to the quality of the digital transfers. They can be gotten really cheap on Amazon, so you can't go wrong.


----------



## ErinH

MarkZ said:


> Picking a fight? You said I was wrong and so I defended my points.
> 
> I really hate the trend around here lately where people think that having a different opinion is the worst ****ing thing on the planet. Every one of your posts has been "fall in line or find another thread." That attitude is _not_ what made diyma the place it is today.


hmmm...



Original post:


Buzzman said:


> Many forum members often ask for recommendations of reference quality recordings for demo purposes, and I came across an excellent list of recommendations that I want to share.


Your 1st Reply:


MarkZ said:


> Yeah, but who would want to listen to any of that garbage?




So, how exactly is your reply not what you hate? 
I don't know either of you. I just see what I see. And, what I see is you, unprompted, expressing your opinion (rather forcefully by choice of words), then complaining about it.

So, having said that...


MarkZ said:


> Picking a fight?


Looks like you were by your very first reply. However, if that wasn't enough...



MarkZ said:


> I really hate the trend around here lately where people think that having a different opinion is the worst ****ing thing on the planet. *Every one of your posts has been "fall in line or find another thread."* That attitude is _not_ what made diyma the place it is today.


I honestly see no difference in your posts made in this thread and what you're complaining about. I've re-read this thread and can't see your replies as anything other than this (bolded)



I read this thread a while back. Saw the first post, checked out the link, thought "cool" or "lame" and carried on. I don't think all the albums in the link posted in the OP are great (seriousy, Avril Lavigne?) but I didn't jump all over the guy for providing a link and recommending we check it, and some of the albums, out. When I saw your first reply back then I was a bit surprised to see you post something so combative, yet unnecessary. Seemed like a genuine effort at giving forum members a viewpoint from an Engineer. No one said we have to love the link. Hell, it's not like Buzzy wrote the reviews himself and forced us to love them. So, I just don't get what your posts are trying to accomplish other than being contrary.

/view from an outsider...


----------



## ErinH

Oh, Buzzman, I forgot to say thanks for the links. It's kind of cool to see what another engineer has to say about albums. I'm not about to run out and buy Celine Dion's greatest hits, but it's still cool to read through that a bit. 


There's a local engineer here in my city who I've been fortunate enough to hang out with. I've gotten him to tell me what his goals were while listening to CDs _he_ engineered. Pretty cool. That's the only real way to know exactly what someone was doing.


----------



## Buzzman

bikinpunk said:


> Oh, Buzzman, I forgot to say thanks for the links. It's kind of cool to see what another engineer has to say about albums. I'm not about to run out and buy Celine Dion's greatest hits, but it's still cool to read through that a bit.


You are welcome! And, I agree re Celine Dion.  




bikinpunk said:


> There's a local engineer here in my city who I've been fortunate enough to hang out with. I've gotten him to tell me what his goals were while listening to CDs _he_ engineered. Pretty cool. That's the only real way to know exactly what someone was doing.


Lucky you! I was very fortunate back in 1979 to have an internship with CBS Records in the Jazz A&R Dep't and be able to sit in the studio during a few recording sessions, including when Miles Davis began his work on his "comeback" record "Man With The Horn." Joe Zawinul, the founder of Weather Report was a client of mine back in the mid -'80s and he shared with me a lot about what they were trying to accomplish on albums like "Heavy Weather." I agree with you that there is nothing like seeing and hearing first hand what the engineer (and producer and artist) were trying to do with a particular record.


----------



## Buzzman

Ct Drummer said:


> For you Prog fans, you can't go wrong with anything by Porcupine Tree. Steven Wilson is known for setting his playback levels low so that he can use all of the headroom. And the quality of his recordings is as good as it gets. And for those of you running 5 channel surround, they have a few of their discs in surround sound. Steven Wilson has been nominated for a few Grammys for his Surround Sound recordings.
> Their latest album, The Incident has some huge transients that will push just about any system to it's limit.
> 
> Mike


I had never heard of this band, and based on your post checked them out. I just listened to some MP3 clips from "Stupid Dream" and "Fear Of A Blank Planet" - Awesome stuff! The Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons influences are obvious to me. I am ordering copies of both, and if you are correct about the SQ qualities of the recordings, I will be a really happy camper. Thanks, Mike!

And, how could I neglect to include *The Alan Parsons Project's "I Robot" * in my list of recommendations?! It's one of the greatest prog. rock albums of all time - both musically and sonically. Grab a copy of that one folks. The remastered cd sounds terrific, and can be gotten really cheap.


----------



## ISTundra

Buzzman said:


> I had never heard of this band, and based on your post checked them out. I just listened to some MP3 clips from "Stupid Dream" and "Fear Of A Blank Planet" - Awesome stuff! The Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons influences are obvious to me. I am ordering copies of both, and if you are correct about the SQ qualities of the recordings, I will be a really happy camper. Thanks, Mike!
> .


Buzz, you heard a few short bits of Porcupine Tree when you first listened to my truck system a few weeks back. Overall, they're a bit heavy (especially on the more recent albums), and the vocals can be weak sounding on some songs (maybe intentionally), but I do think overall that they're well-recorded. I have both of those you mentioned, and a few other CD's of theirs if you would like copies.


----------



## Buzzman

ISTundra said:


> Buzz, you heard a few short bits of Porcupine Tree when you first listened to my truck system a few weeks back. Overall, they're a bit heavy (especially on the more recent albums), and the vocals can be weak sounding on some songs (maybe intentionally), but I do think overall that they're well-recorded. I have both of those you mentioned, and a few other CD's of theirs if you would like copies.


Todd, thanks for letting me know. I will gladly exchange some of my SQ compilations for a copy of "Stupid Dream" and "Fear of A Blank Planet." I will call you tomorrow.


----------



## sqnut

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this album earlier in the thread but, Eagles - Hell Freezes Over is just an amazing recording. 

It's great fun playing the dvd on my laptop and hearing the music from the car setup. No other cd that I own, shapes up like this one. Wide and deep stage, spot on location of vocalists and instruments vis a vis the video. Sharp imaging and great tonality. The sound really comes alive on this cd. Of course I don't do this while driving . 

Just curious as to what makes this recording so good?


----------



## WRX/Z28

Ct Drummer said:


> For you Prog fans, you can't go wrong with anything by Porcupine Tree. Steven Wilson is known for setting his playback levels low so that he can use all of the headroom. And the quality of his recordings is as good as it gets. And for those of you running 5 channel surround, they have a few of their discs in surround sound. Steven Wilson has been nominated for a few Grammys for his Surround Sound recordings.
> Their latest album, The Incident has some huge transients that will push just about any system to it's limit.
> 
> Mike



Agreed! Porcupine Tree is recorded as close to perfect as i've ever heard. 

Definately check out "In Absentia" and "Deadwing" too.


----------



## pjhabit

The Ultimate Audiophile CD Resource


----------



## Ct Drummer

WRX/Z28 said:


> Agreed! Porcupine Tree is recorded as close to perfect as i've ever heard.
> 
> Definately check out "In Absentia" and "Deadwing" too.


Also have a listen to Signify, Lightbulb Sun & Up the Downstair. A few of their earlier discs. They are a bit lighter than the later works. 

And I agree that they're among the best recorded commercially available albums out there. 

Mike


----------



## Buzzman

pjhabit said:


> The Ultimate Audiophile CD Resource


That's definitely a great list, and I have quite a lot of them already. Do you know if he is selling the record company releases or burnt copies? Depending on the answer, there will be copyright infringement issues.


----------



## basshead

Just got Eva Cassidy -- Live At Blues Alley CD and wanted to thank you since I would probably never heard of her otherwise. 

Anything similar in your collection?


----------



## pjhabit

Buzzman said:


> That's definitely a great list, and I have quite a lot of them already. Do you know if he is selling the record company releases or burnt copies? Depending on the answer, there will be copyright infringement issues.


Haha, I didn't even realise he was hawking the stuff :blush:.


----------



## cheesehead

Buzzman said:


> Check out the remastered version of "Couldn't Stand the Weather" (which is much more readily available than the MFSL version of "The Sky Is Crying", and much cheaper too) and listen to "Tin Pan Alley."  There is a new Legacy edition with this same name that was just released. It has 2 Discs, the second one containing live versions of most of the tracks on the original recording + other live songs! Can't wait to get it and give it a listen.


Oh no! I've got to find these! SRV could really make the guitar sing!


----------



## cheesehead

Buzzman said:


> Lucky you! I was very fortunate back in 1979 to have an internship with CBS Records in the Jazz A&R Dep't and be able to sit in the studio during a few recording sessions, including when Miles Davis began his work on his "comeback" record "Man With The Horn."


Nice! Any good Miles recordings that you would recommend?


----------



## MarkZ

bikinpunk said:


> hmmm...
> 
> 
> 
> Original post:
> 
> 
> Your 1st Reply:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, how exactly is your reply not what you hate?
> I don't know either of you. I just see what I see. And, what I see is you, unprompted, expressing your opinion (rather forcefully by choice of words), then complaining about it.
> 
> So, having said that...
> 
> Looks like you were by your very first reply. However, if that wasn't enough...
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly see no difference in your posts made in this thread and what you're complaining about. I've re-read this thread and can't see your replies as anything other than this (bolded)
> 
> 
> 
> I read this thread a while back. Saw the first post, checked out the link, thought "cool" or "lame" and carried on. I don't think all the albums in the link posted in the OP are great (seriousy, Avril Lavigne?) but I didn't jump all over the guy for providing a link and recommending we check it, and some of the albums, out. When I saw your first reply back then I was a bit surprised to see you post something so combative, yet unnecessary. Seemed like a genuine effort at giving forum members a viewpoint from an Engineer. No one said we have to love the link. Hell, it's not like Buzzy wrote the reviews himself and forced us to love them. So, I just don't get what your posts are trying to accomplish other than being contrary.
> 
> /view from an outsider...


Who jumped all over the guy? I didn't. I've continually made the point that music is music, and your love of music shouldn't be overruled by the quality of the recording. I then went on to explain that various measures and descriptors of recording "quality" are very often ass backwards anyway. My first reply is consistent with everything I said. What you've failed to notice is that nowhere in this thread have I told them to shut up or to stop posting. That's the "trend" I was referring to in here, not criticism. "Agree or go away" is what I take exception to.

So I can see where you think I'm being hypocritical -- it stems from the fact that you didn't understand my commentary about a current trend in this forum.


----------



## ErinH

MarkZ said:


> Who jumped all over the guy? I didn't. I've continually made the point that music is music, and your love of music shouldn't be overruled by the quality of the recording. I then went on to explain that various measures and descriptors of recording "quality" are very often ass backwards anyway.


Where? Definitely not in your first reply. 
Had you done that in your first reply, I wouldn't have said anything. You didn't, though. 

Furthermore, he never said that anyone had to listen to this music to enjoy a good system. The link wasn't even about that, so much. The link, at least in my eyes, was nothing more than an engineer's take on how albums were put together. Maybe things to listen for. We as 'audiophiles' often talk about wondering what the engineer was thinking. Well, the link was a pretty close second. A professional opinion of another professional's work. Again, I'm not running out to buy Avril Lavigne, but to those who may have the album or be interested in it, there's a couple good sentences on the quality of work put into it. I'm quite certain that's all Buzz was trying to say by posting his "recommendation" link.



MarkZ said:


> So I can see where you think I'm being hypocritical -- it stems from the fact that you didn't understand my commentary about a current trend in this forum.


Your original reply was pretty cynical and unnecessary. Surely you know this. That's the trend of this forum that I personally don't like. 
You didn't tell him he should shut up, explicitly, but you may as well have. So, it's not my misunderstanding that causes me to see hypocrisy in your posts: it's your posts that causes me to see hypocrisy. 


I don't wanna keep dragging this thread through the mud so I won't be replying about this particular topic. If you'd like to shoot me a PM to discuss further, feel free. I'm not playing a ***** game of posting and running... I just don't feel the energy spent on this topic is doing either of us any good and am checking out of the public eye on it. My main goal was to hopefully get you to realize that your initial reply was uncharacteristic of your typical replies and maybe have you say "damn, that was a bit dickish". Probably won't happen, but again, I'm not trying to argue. Just wanting you to understand why I even bothered to chime in (ie: trend of the forum).

- Erin


----------



## MarkZ

bikinpunk said:


> Where? Definitely not in your first reply.
> Had you done that in your first reply, I wouldn't have said anything. You didn't, though.


I said it was ****ty music. It was a comment. Underlying that comment was the fact (err...my opinion, that I later hashed out) that if someone doesn't like certain music, then no amount of essque is gonna make ****ty music sound good to them. I don't see the big deal.

I find these lists to be wholly singular in their assortment. I'm sure the people who made these lists think they're grabbing stuff from a varied assortment of genres (defined either by musical or recording styles), ... but they're not. It's a very _very_ homogeneous set of music. Hell, I described the energy content of about 95% of it in an earlier post. [and will back this up with "numbers", if you're really interested...]



> Furthermore, he never said that anyone had to listen to this music to enjoy a good system. The link wasn't even about that, so much. The link, at least in my eyes, was nothing more than an engineer's take on how albums were put together. Maybe things to listen for. We as 'audiophiles' often talk about wondering what the engineer was thinking. Well, the link was a pretty close second. A professional opinion of another professional's work. Again, I'm not running out to buy Avril Lavigne, but to those who may have the album or be interested in it, there's a couple good sentences on the quality of work put into it. I'm quite certain that's all Buzz was trying to say by posting his "recommendation" link.


Nah, that's cool. When you start ranking them, however, it becomes an exercise in who gives a ****. It would be analogous to compiling a "top 10 speakers" list. People here have probably done it at some point, but it's retarded. Sure, I guess making lists of things like that can get people to check things out for themselves, which is always good, but it would still be a ******** list and highly suggestible people should keep that in mind. 



> Your original reply was pretty cynical and unnecessary. Surely you know this. That's the trend of this forum that I personally don't like.
> You didn't tell him he should shut up, explicitly, but you may as well have. So, it's not my misunderstanding that causes me to see hypocrisy in your posts: it's your posts that causes me to see hypocrisy.


Who are you to decide what's "unnecessary"? That's exactly the point I was making. You and him and I don't have the right to decree what posts are "unnecessary" and which ones are a-ok. I'm not being hypocritical. I'm being consistent. People have opinions about various topics. People should be allowed to express those opinions without being told to shut up. You want to criticize someone else's criticisms? Great! That's not the same as telling someone to shut up. That's an on-point criticism. The difference should be obvious. I didn't tell anyone to shut up, and I dropped out of the thread and let them make their lists after I said what I had to say. I was dragged back into it when someone bumped the thread to argue with one of my posts.



> I don't wanna keep dragging this thread through the mud so I won't be replying about this particular topic. If you'd like to shoot me a PM to discuss further, feel free. I'm not playing a ***** game of posting and running... I just don't feel the energy spent on this topic is doing either of us any good and am checking out of the public eye on it. My main goal was to hopefully get you to realize that your initial reply was uncharacteristic of your typical replies and maybe have you say "damn, that was a bit dickish". Probably won't happen, but again, I'm not trying to argue. Just wanting you to understand why I even bothered to chime in (ie: trend of the forum).
> 
> - Erin


Oh, it was definitely a bit dick-ish. But so are a lot of things. It's dick-ish when people shoot down other people's stupid ideas, but that doesn't mean it's not valuable. We're grown men here, and it's a somewhat relaxed and close community. We should be able to express criticism without first having to tongue the other guy's taint.


----------



## Buzzman

basshead said:


> Just got Eva Cassidy -- Live At Blues Alley CD and wanted to thank you since I would probably never heard of her otherwise.
> 
> Anything similar in your collection?


Glad you got it and love it!  I also highly recommend Eva's "Songbird" CD which is an excellent compilation of tracks recorded during her so short career. Eva had a special voice, and also played guitar, explored the blues, jazz and pop. Someone you might also like, but who displays much better guitar playing chops than Eva, and an excellent voice (though not as exceptional as Eva's) is *Susan Tedeschi*. I would recommend her *"Live From Austin TX" CD (the remastered version)*.  Now, if you want to hear an amazing blues "singer" with a great voice and the ability to make YOU feel the blues, someone off the beaten path that not many people know about, check out *B.J. Sharp*. Get her CD *"Never Felt No Blues."* You can get a new copy on Amazon for less than $2! The musical reward is worth 1,000 times that.


----------



## Buzzman

cheesehead said:


> Nice! Any good Miles recordings that you would recommend?


LOL, :laugh: Man, just about everything Miles recorded would be on that list. But, in terms of musical and sonic excellence, I would put *"Kind Of Blue," "Sketches of Spain"* and *Cannonball Adderley's "Something Else" *(same band as on "Kind of Blue" but Cannonball was the "leader" for that session) at the top of the list.


----------



## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> I said it was ****ty music. It was a comment. Underlying that comment was the fact (err...my opinion, that I later hashed out) that if someone doesn't like certain music, then no amount of essque is gonna make ****ty music sound good to them. I don't see the big deal.


You still don’t seem to grasp the point that your comment was "unnecessary" because it was offensive and contributed nothing of value to the thread. All you did was tell those who happened to like the music you described as “****ty,” was that they had “****ty” taste. For example, look at your post in response to Audionutz' post in which he recommended Meat Puppets “Too High To Die” - 



MarkZ said:


> One more thing. I agree with you about the "SQ" of this album, but I'd also like to point out that it's pretty ****ty.  Yeah, yeah, I know, subjective and all that. I'm not trying to **** on your musical taste or anything.


Yeah, well you did "**** on [his] musical taste!" Why is it so hard for you to understand that comments like this do not endear you to the people to whom comments like this are directed (and I am among that group)? Unless, of course, you just don’t care that you offend people.  



MarkZ said:


> I find these lists to be wholly singular in their assortment. I'm sure the people who made these lists think they're grabbing stuff from a varied assortment of genres (defined either by musical or recording styles), ... but they're not. It's a very _very_ homogeneous set of music. Hell, I described the energy content of about 95% of it in an earlier post. [and will back this up with "numbers", if you're really interested...]


Considering that the list contained in the link I provided to John Vestman’s web site stated that it was a list of reference quality “commercial” recordings, and he did not list any music other than Pop/Rock recordings, clearly he *intended* to offer what you call a “homogeneous set of music” and was not deluding himself into thinking he was offering music recommendations from a “varied assortment of genres.” 




MarkZ said:


> Nah, that's cool. When you start ranking them, however, it becomes an exercise in who gives a ****. It would be analogous to compiling a "top 10 speakers" list. People here have probably done it at some point, but it's retarded. Sure, I guess making lists of things like that can get people to check things out for themselves, which is always good, but it would still be a ******** list and highly suggestible people should keep that in mind.


Again, if you don’t “give a ****,” why is not easier to simply ignore the subject, rather than tell those who do “give a ****” that they are less smart or enlightened for doing so? 



MarkZ said:


> Who are you to decide what's "unnecessary"? That's exactly the point I was making. You and him and I don't have the right to decree what posts are "unnecessary" and which ones are a-ok. I'm not being hypocritical. I'm being consistent. People have opinions about various topics. People should be allowed to express those opinions without being told to shut up. You want to criticize someone else's criticisms? Great! That's not the same as telling someone to shut up. That's an on-point criticism. The difference should be obvious. I didn't tell anyone to shut up, and I dropped out of the thread and let them make their lists after I said what I had to say. I was dragged back into it when someone bumped the thread to argue with one of my posts.


Yes, there are a variety of opinions expressed by everyone on various topics, and everyone has a right to express their opinions. However, there are opinions that are positive and helpful, and there are opinions that are offensive and inflammatory. In my opinion, there is no place for the latter. It’s just the way I was raised. And yes, I cringed when Shiv made his first post and referenced yours because I knew you would rise like the Phenix from the ashes. 




MarkZ said:


> Oh, it was definitely a bit dick-ish. But so are a lot of things. It's dick-ish when people shoot down other people's stupid ideas, but that doesn't mean it's not valuable. We're grown men here, and it's a somewhat relaxed and close community. We should be able to express criticism without first having to tongue the other guy's taint.


OK, so you now accept as fact that your comment(s) were “definitely a bit dick-ish.” But, you then have to defend being “dick-ish”! I am sorry, but there is nothing defensible about being “dick-ish.” That’s not a positive personal attribute in my lexicon. And, your comment that “_t’s dick-ish when people shoot down other people’s stupid ideas” is quite telling. Is it the case that anything you disagree with is a “stupid idea?” More importantly, why does one have to be “dick-ish” in order to debate theories or concepts with another? The answer: only if one chooses to be “dick-ish” because it's not "necessary" that one be so. _


----------



## MarkZ

Buzzman said:


> You still don’t seem to grasp the point that your comment was "unnecessary" because it was offensive and contributed nothing of value to the thread. All you did was tell those who happened to like the music you described as “****ty,” was that they had “****ty” taste. For example, look at your post in response to Audionutz' post in which he recommended Meat Puppets “Too High To Die” -
> 
> Yeah, well you did "**** on [his] musical taste!" Why is it so hard for you to understand that comments like this do not endear you to the people to whom comments like this are directed (and I am among that group)? Unless, of course, you just don’t care that you offend people.


Put on your big girl panties and learn to accept criticism without letting steam pour from your ears. Next time I'll write, "I don't mean to offend you, but I'm not fond of that record. I'm sure it's wonderful and so I'm probably just misguided, and I shouldn't even voice my opinion because someone somewhere may find it offensive. Forgive me kind sir for saying anything at all."

Dude, I put the ****ing smilies in there and everything, so obviously I wasn't taking a dump on his wife's tits. Just shooting the **** about music. Maybe I said it in a crass way. Big woop. 

Is this really what you're all bent out of shape about? Or is it _really_ that you're upset because you couldn't refute any of my technical criticisms intelligently? Or the corrections I made to your assertions about dynamics? Or because you couldn't post anything other than vague commentary on mastering? Ironically, if anyone's offered anything of substance in this thread, it's me. [For the record, I don't call, _dude, this album makes my system sound wicked essque!_ "substance."]



> Considering that the list contained in the link I provided to John Vestman’s web site stated that it was a list of reference quality “commercial” recordings, and he did not list any music other than Pop/Rock recordings, clearly he *intended* to offer what you call a “homogeneous set of music” and was not deluding himself into thinking he was offering music recommendations from a “varied assortment of genres.”


And that's a really good reason why those sorts of lists are pretty pointless. I mean, yeah, I guess it's a useful springboard for people who have no idea what they're listening to, but for anyone with ears and the ability to use them, it doesn't provide much.

Unfortunately, the whole problem with the words "quality" and "commercial" is that they've been left undefined. "Quality", as I've explained throughout this thread, isn't easily defined because it's mostly ********. "Commercial" is hard to define because it's arbitrary. But it's really hard to define it in a way that would justify how exclusionary and cherry picked his list is. And that's fine. It's hard for one guy to put hundreds or even thousands of albums on a list and categorize or rank them. I understand what his list is and what he was trying to do. But I also find his selections... odd. Whatever. I guess I'm not allowed to criticize his excellency.



> Again, if you don’t “give a ****,” why is not easier to simply ignore the subject, rather than tell those who do “give a ****” that they are less smart or enlightened for doing so?


Less smart or enlightened? What are you talking about? You're taking things waaay too personally here. Another DIYMA trait. You can't criticize someone's opinion without them getting butthurt.



> Yes, there are a variety of opinions expressed by everyone on various topics, and everyone has a right to express their opinions. However, there are opinions that are positive and helpful, and there are opinions that are offensive and inflammatory. In my opinion, there is no place for the latter. It’s just the way I was raised. And yes, I cringed when Shiv made his first post and referenced yours because I knew you would rise like the Phenix from the ashes.


It wasn't offensive. You're just easily offended. Unless you're a member of Steely Dan (who knows? maybe that's what you pretend when you're sitting in your car...), there's no reason for you to be offended when someone says they don't like their music. You're acting like a child in grade school when you get all hurt because not everyone else likes your favorite music. If that's what you're really hurt about -- I can't tell because you're all over the frickin map here.



> OK, so you now accept as fact that your comment(s) were “definitely a bit dick-ish.” But, you then have to defend being “dick-ish”! I am sorry, but there is nothing defensible about being “dick-ish.”


Go **** yourself. How's that for dickish?


----------



## Buzzman

MarkZ said:


> Put on your big girl panties and learn to accept criticism without letting steam pour from your ears. Next time I'll write, "I don't mean to offend you, but I'm not fond of that record. I'm sure it's wonderful and so I'm probably just misguided, and I shouldn't even voice my opinion because someone somewhere may find it offensive. Forgive me kind sir for saying anything at all."
> 
> Dude, I put the ****ing smilies in there and everything, so obviously I wasn't taking a dump on his wife's tits. Just shooting the **** about music. Maybe I said it in a crass way. Big woop.
> 
> Is this really what you're all bent out of shape about? Or is it _really_ that you're upset because you couldn't refute any of my technical criticisms intelligently? Or the corrections I made to your assertions about dynamics? Or because you couldn't post anything other than vague commentary on mastering? Ironically, if anyone's offered anything of substance in this thread, it's me. [For the record, I don't call, _dude, this album makes my system sound wicked essque!_ "substance."]
> 
> 
> 
> And that's a really good reason why those sorts of lists are pretty pointless. I mean, yeah, I guess it's a useful springboard for people who have no idea what they're listening to, but for anyone with ears and the ability to use them, it doesn't provide much.
> 
> Unfortunately, the whole problem with the words "quality" and "commercial" is that they've been left undefined. "Quality", as I've explained throughout this thread, isn't easily defined because it's mostly ********. "Commercial" is hard to define because it's arbitrary. But it's really hard to define it in a way that would justify how exclusionary and cherry picked his list is. And that's fine. It's hard for one guy to put hundreds or even thousands of albums on a list and categorize or rank them. I understand what his list is and what he was trying to do. But I also find his selections... odd. Whatever. I guess I'm not allowed to criticize his excellency.
> 
> 
> 
> Less smart or enlightened? What are you talking about? You're taking things waaay too personally here. Another DIYMA trait. You can't criticize someone's opinion without them getting butthurt.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't offensive. You're just easily offended. Unless you're a member of Steely Dan (who knows? maybe that's what you pretend when you're sitting in your car...), there's no reason for you to be offended when someone says they don't like their music. You're acting like a child in grade school when you get all hurt because not everyone else likes your favorite music. If that's what you're really hurt about -- I can't tell because you're all over the frickin map here.
> 
> 
> 
> Go **** yourself. How's that for dickish?


:bigcry: I Want My Mommy.


----------



## titansfan

I'm going to make a comment, and no, I am not here to get bashed or start an argument. As most people do, I have a varied taste in music, minus country...can stand it. As a matter of fact, I grew up listening mainly to heavy metal, which some people can't stand. Some of the groups I listen to now would be considered sh*t to others. I've actually bought most of the cd's on the list, if I didn't already have them. Others might not like the music list, and if the original post was intend to do this or not, the list has broaden my musical taste and diversifies my music collection.


----------



## cheesehead

Buzzman said:


> LOL, :laugh: Man, just about everything Miles recorded would be on that list. But, in terms of musical and sonic excellence, I would put *"Kind Of Blue," "Sketches of Spain"* and *Cannonball Adderley's "Something Else" *(same band as on "Kind of Blue" but Cannonball was the "leader" for that session) at the top of the list.


:blush:Yes I was asking about good recordings. I am very familiar with Miles recording. I have been a fan since the 80's. Love all his stuff!


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## bertholomey

I was asked to add a link to some recordings to this thread. I noticed it was 8 pages long, and so I started to read. Wow! An example of why I don't spend much time on DIYMA anymore. 

Anyway, here is the link - take it for what it's worth - to some, none.....others might give some ideas of recordings to try.

CommonSense Audio Recommended CD Page


----------



## emak212

Thanks for this! I have to respectfully disagree with anything Nickelback or Creed, though. 

Some great recordings I have listened to lately:

Ratatat - LP4
Empire of the Sun - Walking on a Dream
Big Boi - Sir Luscious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty
The Roots - How I Got Over
The White Stripes - Icky Thump

Enjoy!


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## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> I was asked to add a link to some recordings to this thread. I noticed it was 8 pages long, and so I started to read. Wow! An example of why I don't spend much time on DIYMA anymore.
> 
> Anyway, here is the link - take it for what it's worth - to some, none.....others might give some ideas of recordings to try.
> 
> CommonSense Audio Recommended CD Page


Aw, come on now Jason, we all know that a good natured fella like you would never get drawn into any mudslinging.  We want to see more of you around here.


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## wangch

most of the AM+ cds have good sound quality, all of the non remastered police cds with the AM+ symbol are great


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## onebadmonte

I didn't see it mentioned so here goes:

Artist/Group: Spoon Album: Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga

It's a good stereo recording, and the brass instruments aren't overbearing.


----------



## ashman5

another great comerical recording
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Endangered Species


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## bertholomey

Buzzman said:


> Aw, come on now Jason, we all know that a good natured fella like you would never get drawn into any mudslinging.  We want to see more of you around here.


For some reason, I just now saw this - thanks Buzz. 

I might as well add something - I just purchased the following which I am thoroughly enjoying:

Mapleshade's Music Festival
Mapleshade Best of Vol 2: 13 Shades of Blue
Mapleshade Best of Vol 3: Jazz Grooves
Mapleshade Boogeyin! Swamprock, Salsa, and Trane: A la Carte Brass & Percussion

Mapleshade Records - Music


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## Buzzman

Well, I have been scouring through my CD collection again and discovered/rediscovered some Pop/Rock/R&B gems that are must haves for both their sonic and musical qualities, and thus can serve as "references" for assessing your system's performance and the sound quality of other recordings. I have been focusing on Pop/Rock/R&B recordings because reference quality recordings in these genres are much harder to find than Jazz, Blues or Classical records, and the Pop/Rock/R&b categories have a larger consumer following. Some of these records I purchased years ago and never got around to listening to them for one reason or another, and others I haven’t listened to in many years and quickly remembered why they had remained a part of my music collection. Some of these will shock you with how good they are as examples of the highest level of recording engineering and musical accomplishment. Here they are, in no particular order: 

1.	*Talking Heads – “The Best of Talking Heads”: *Like most “best of” compilations, the recording quality varies from track to track. Fortunately, there is not a bad recording on this 18-track album, and there are some outstanding tracks, most notably “Once In A Lifetime,” “Burning Down The House,” “Girlfriend Is Better,” “Wild Wild Life,” “Blind” and “(Nothing But) Flowers.” The recording level would put this album at about – 6db/-7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. The tracks I mention are well balanced across the frequency range, with excellent clarity and detail, particularly in the bass. 

2.	*Dire Straits & Mark Knopfler – “The Best Of/Private Investigations”: *If you are a Dire Straits fan like me, or are seeking to explore the music wizardry of Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler, this is must have record. It’s a 2CD set with 22 of the best songs recorded by the group and Mark as a solo artist. The recording level would put this album at about a – 7db/-8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. Some tracks are much better than others for “demo” purposes, as is to be expected with a “best of” compilation, but every song is a joy to listen to. The recordings are well balanced across the frequency range, with excellent clarity and detail. 

3.	*Peter Gabriel – “So” (Remastered):* This is one of my favorite records of all time, and what a pleasure to hear this remastered version. The engineers did a terrific job of bringing out the details in the mix that had been lacking in the previous version, and the bass is just killer. Tight, clean and detailed. The recording level would put this album at about a -7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

4.	*Alison Moyet – “Voice”:* Alison is a British singer, blessed with a truly fabulous voice, so this album Is aptly named. She made her initial impact on music lovers in the mid-‘80s, and this album of pop standards from 2005 with a backing orchestra really does showcase her vocal talents. It is one absolutely beautiful recording. It’s natural, well balanced from top to bottom, with an airy midrange. Alison’s voice is well focused in the soundstage and is just a pleasure to listen to. The recording level would put this album at about -7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

5.	*Sting – “All This Time”: *This live studio recording is one of my all- time favorite records by Sting. It’s essentially a collection of Sting’s best songs performed with a stellar band of top Jazz musicians. It’s so natural sounding and dynamic. Sting’s voice is beautifully rendered in the mix, and the engineers did a great job of delivering outstanding bass, midrange and treble. This is one of the louder CDs on this list, but it’s loudness level is not attained at the expense of the record’s naturalness, clarity and detail. The recording level would put this album at about a – 8/-9 on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

6.	*Aaron Neville *– Aaron is blessed with one of the greatest voices of all time, and unlike most other pop recording artists, almost every album he releases is blessed with great sound quality to complement his fabulous musical gifts. The following two are at the top of the list (along with “Warm Your Heart” which is referenced in one of the links at the top of this thread). 

a.	*“Bring It On Home – The Soul Classics”: *It really does take someone with special musical talent to take classic soul songs that have been recorded by numerous artists over the years, and still make each song his own. Aaron does that with this record. The sound engineering is superb, and the mastering by Bernie Grundman make this a must have CD. The tonal balance from top to bottom is outstanding. Aaaron’s voice is palpably real, and the detail and clarity in the bass, midrange and treble is something to behold. The recording level would put this album at about a – 6/-7 on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

b.	*“The Grand Tour”:* This record predates “Bring It On Home” by 13 years, and the sound is spectacular. Recorded and mixed in analog, there is a naturalness and smoothness to this recording that few pop recordings attain. Aaaron’s voice and every instrument is rendered with great clarity and presence, and everything is beautifully balanced in the mix. This CD was mastered by Doug Sax, and it’s a gem. Go get it. The recording level would put this album at about a – 4/-5 on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

7.	*Rickie Lee Jones – “Flying Cowboys”: *Another sonic and musical gem from RLJ. This record is produced by Walter Becker of Steely Dan, so no wonder it sounds so damn good. Indeed, Roger Nichols, the sound engineer on all the Steely Dan records does most of the sound engineering work here. It has the lowest levels of the CDs on this list, which I estimate to be about a –2db/-3 db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread, so it begs to be cranked up. The recording level could have been another 2-3db louder without any ill effects in my view. But, if you want a seamless balanced recording from top to bottom, that is as smooth as a baby’s butt, this is one. 

8.	*Maxwell –“Urban Hang Suite”: *This is one of my favorite R&B CDs. It’s one you put on when you want to get laid! The songs are incredible, and the sound quality was a real eye opener for me. You don’t often get this type of SQ with a modern R&B recording. Though it’s one of the louder CDs on this list, it’s loudness level is not attained at the expense of naturalness, clarity or detail. The recording level would put this album at about -9db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. The bass is incredible, with great punch and articulation, and the midrange is open and airy, with a smooth quality, and there is excellent separation of the voices and instruments in the mix. I prefer the SQ on this CD to that on Maxwell “Unplugged,” which I have already recommended. I find this recording to be more dynamic, with deeper, more prominent bass, and a smoother midrange. 

9.	*Lisa Stansfield – “Affection”: *I recall jamming in the Manhattan nightclubs in 1990 to the many hit songs that came off this album. Lisa’s funky sound, so reminiscent of Teena Marie, was infectious. And, to top it off, this record has excellent sound quality. From top to bottom it’s well balanced, with nice transients and a smooth tonal balance. Lisa’s voice is nicely rendered in the mix and it’s qualities are very evident due to the clarity of the recording. At about -3db/-4db, this record is on the lower end of the intrinsic loudness meter I have been referencing, so crank it up and see your feet move!

10.	*Marvin Gaye – “Midnight Love” (Legacy Rhythm & Soul Series 2000 Remaster)*: Amazing! That’s all I have to say. This classic record sounds so much better with this remaster you will want to play it over and over. The intricate instrumental and vocal details that are revealed in the mix showcase a much more complex recording than I recall hearing with the initial CD release. The overall tonal balance is superb, and the clarity and detail are outstanding for a recording of this type from that era. The recording level would put this album at about a -5db/-6db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. I have this recording on LP and can’t wait to give it a listen again in its analog format. 

MORE TO COME


----------



## diebenkorn

A good deal of Zappa's stuff is very well recorded. Worth checking out are albums that had Steve Hoffman, Barry Diament, Kevin Gray and Steve Albini in the recording process. Others are

Tool
Primus
King Crimson 30th anniversary editions
Tortoise
Explosions in the Sky
Joe Jackson 
Danzig 
Fugazi
Morrissey 
and some other math and post rock albums I can't remember and will try and list later.


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## bertholomey

Thanks Buzz!

Because of David E., I have become a Dire /MK fan. The Live in Bergen album is fantastic. I will certainly look for that PG So album - love it. I have really enjoyed the copy of Seal's Soul album that I got recently.


----------



## danno14

Buzzman said:


> Well, I have been scouring through my CD collection again and discovered/rediscovered some Pop/Rock/R&B gems ..........
> 
> MORE TO COME


Thanks for the addition.... I concur on the 7 I already have and will be checking out the other 3 

Keep 'em coming!
Rgds


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Thanks Buzz!
> 
> Because of David E., I have become a Dire /MK fan. The Live in Bergen album is fantastic. I will certainly look for that PG So album - love it. I have really enjoyed the copy of Seal's Soul album that I got recently.


Hey Jason, glad to see you are still kicking! Hope all is well. Yeah, Dire Straits can become addictive. Definitely get that Peter Gabriel remaster of "So." It's killer. Unfortunately, it's not cheap. But, it's worth it. I like that *Seal "Soul"* album also, but I don't put it in the same league sonically as his *"Best- 1991-2004."* If you don't have that one, get it. It's a 2CD set and the CD with the acoustic versions of the original studio hits is fabulous.


----------



## Buzzman

danno14 said:


> Thanks for the addition.... I concur on the 7 I already have and will be checking out the other 3
> 
> Keep 'em coming!
> Rgds


Hey Danno, I will look forward to your feedback on the 3 you mention. If I am 7 out of 7, then I feel pretty good you will like the other 3.


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## ErinH

Audiophile MFSL Gold CD 24-Karat UDCD-730 / Tears For Fears / Songs From The Big Chair

but, at $250 for the MFSL version... I'll just stick with the non MFSL version.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, I promised more reference quality popular music CD recommendations, and here are 4 more. 

1.	*Erykah Badu – “Live”: *This is a surprisingly good sounding record. It is very well balanced, with excellent clarity in the midrange and the bass, and the treble is nice and airy. Erykah’s voice has real presence and all the vocals. The soundstage is deep and wide, and all the instruments and voices are nicely focused in the mix. You definitely feel as though you are at this performance. The clarity and detail of the electric bass is superb. There is real punch down there. If the bass were a little bit less prominent, the tonal balance would be near perfect in my view. And, though the levels are hot, they are not anywhere near that of so many modern recordings of this genre, and the record retains a natural musicality. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -7db/-8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

2.	*Johnny Cash – “American IV: The Man Comes Around”: *This is volume 4 of the six “American” recordings produced by Rick Rubin. This is my favorite of the six because I prefer the songs more. Though it’s recorded a bit louder than I would have preferred, this recording has an uncanny realism to it. Johnny Cash is in the room. You can see and feel him. The songs feature limited instrumentation, thus making Johnny’s trademark voice the centerpiece of the recording. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -9db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. A real triumph. 

3.	*Aretha Franklin – “Unforgettable (A Tribute to Dinah Washington)”: * What a find! Originally recorded in 1964 on Columbia with a Jazz rhythm section and horns, and a string section, this features a 21 yr. old Aretha before she moved to Atlantic Records and became the “Queen of Soul.” On this record she really showcases her bluesy/jazzy side. The recording is excellent, with wonderful dynamics. Every instrument is clearly visible and audible in the soundstage. Aretha’s voice could have been given a bit more presence and depth, and can sound a bit sterile at times, but man does she blow! You could see Ray Charles making this kind of record. It’s typical of the 60’s studio recordings where all the musicians were in the room together, feeding off of and driving each other. It has an organic feel to it that you don’t hear much anymore on popular recordings. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -4db/-5db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

4.	*Edie Brickell – “Picture Perfect Morning”: *This record was released in 1994, and was produced by Paul Simon (Edie’s husband) and Roy Halee, who also handled the engineering responsibility. Halee did a lot of Paul Simon’s work and he is highly regarded. This record is not widely known, but it is a real treasure. Edie penned some great songs and there are great musical guests such as Dr. John, Art and Cyril Neville, Michael Brecker, and Barry White of all people, and a host of top drawer studio musicians. You can hear and feel the Paul Simon influence, as it has an overall breezy feel to it. It is beautifully balanced from top to bottom, with a smooth, natural tonal balance. Edie’s wonderful voice really shines on this record. What a joy to rediscover this record. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -4db/-5db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

MORE TO COME. Yeah, I have been doing a lot of listening recently.


----------



## minibox

Thanks buzzman for a great thread. The wife's been working nights lately, giving me more time to sample your suggestions. Always love discovering more music and recordings!
I would add *Celtic Woman A New Journey* to this list. Great range and variety of vocals, percussion, and strings.


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## Buzzman

Hey Minibox, you are most welcome. I'm glad you are enjoying the thread. This hobby of ours is made that much more enjoyable when we make new discoveries, and for me it always has been, and always will be, about the music. Why else do we spend all this time and energy assembling and tuning our systems, right? I have a few more additions to the list that I am really excited about and will post once I get past this load of work I have been dealing with. I am not familiar with your Celtic Woman recommendation, but I will definitely check it out.


----------



## final frontier

"Let It Roll" by Little Feat is one clean, crystal-clear CD...and it's from '88(!!!). The first 3 songs, especially track 2, "One Clear Moment" are grandslam homeruns. The final track is a fantastic male/female duet.

I'm a HUGE Gov't Mule fan...so check out their rendition of "What Is Hip" off of their "Deep End, Vol 2", track 5...KILLER bass line. All their studio stuff is top notch, imho.


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## Resonant

Thanks for the link


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## minibox

I recently came across some incredible remakes of big band music, Duke Ellington etc. The album is called "Bug Music" by Don Byron. The instrumentals are outstanding and it's clear they didn't cut any corners with the recording and mixing. Highly recommended.
Amazon.com: Bug Music: Music Of The Raymond Scott Quintette, John Kirby & His Orchestra, And The Duke Ellington Orchestra: Don Byron: Music


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## bertholomey

What are you doing posting this early in the morning.......what am I doing posting this early in the morning?!

I'm looking forward to hearing that disc......hopefully  

Remember....Laura Satterfield, 'Dirty Velvet Lies', and Jennifer Knapp, 'Lay it Down' - track Peace. I really do want to get together before the meet and figure out what our final track list will be. 

Ok, enough of that, we can continue with this excellent thread.


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## SliderJeff

Wow! Very cool that Dokken's solo cd made the list. I LOVE that cd and the drumming by Ken Mary and Mikkey Dee slays! SWEET! Gotta go spin that disc now. 

J.


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## kustomkaraudio

Lee Ritenour " 6 string Theory" Great recording !!


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## flipnap

great thread. i used to actually wait for new releases from engineers that i like (rick ruben, mutt lange, etc) and when a new album would come out id go for it, sort of like a movie director would make a film and youd know it would be good. I was an engineer groupie. ha ha!! anyway, good to hear people discussing music. and to see companies considering the desire of the public for high fidelity downloads (even studio masters, my goodness!)


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## Buzzman

flipnap said:


> great thread. i used to actually wait for new releases from engineers that i like (rick ruben, mutt lange, etc) and when a new album would come out id go for it, sort of like a movie director would make a film and youd know it would be good. I was an engineer groupie. ha ha!! anyway, good to hear people discussing music. and to see companies considering the desire of the public for high fidelity downloads (even studio masters, my goodness!)


:laugh: A sound engineer groupie. If only they knew. But, it's nice to see another person serious about recording SQ. I really like Rick Ruben's work too (especially his Johnny Cash recordings), but wish he would bring his levels down at least 2-3 db. A couple of guys who have done great work over the years, but haven't gotten much love so far in this thread, and are just kicking ass right now, are Kevin Gray and Steve Hoffman. They have handled a wide variety of artists and music genres (including rock, pop, r&b, etc., that I have made the focus of this thread). For all those reading this thread, below are links to their websites and their recorded work. If you see a record by an artist you like, I strongly recommend you get that recording. You are very likely to acquire something that you will treat as a reference recording. I have seen a bunch that I had no idea they worked on, and plan to acquire because of their involvement and my love of the artist. Here you go:

Kevin Gray Discography at Discogs

Steve Hoffman Official Discography


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## minibox

Jackson Browne- Solo Acoustic Vol. 1 & 2

Not only are these songs beautifully recorded, but they also sound very personal and intimate, much like the feeling you get at a small venue unplugged concert. When these are played on a reference system it's easy to feel an instant emotional connection to the music and feel like he is performing in a small theater just for you. If you're looking for a recording that's been engineered to the point where you aren't getting an accurate representation of what the artist really sounds like, then this cd is not for you. If you like hearing the true character of the artist's vocals, then this is a must buy.


----------



## 8 Track

CD/Audio Mastering - Reference Audio CD's
This site is a Bob Ludwig worshipper... Nothing wrong with Bob he's a legend. But I recognize STEALTH marketing when I read it...
Next up is this one...Honor Roll a Doug Sax worshipping site...
Dieter Dirks, Martin "Headmaster" Birch, Ted Templeton, Jack Douglas,Jon Astley,Patrick Meehan, John "Speedy" Keen etc...all are worthy.

A good place to start if you listen to rock no matter what they say...

Aerosmith "Combination" from the album "Rocks" This motherfucker will melt your face in midbass if your ****'s right. Just tune it to this song for a great start in rock...

Once "Combination" sounds good check out Guns-n-Roses "Rocket Queen". yea I know... just shut the **** up and do it. Notice the space and how airy the bass is. 

Next up "Stagefright" from Def Leppards Pyromania. It has distance,ryhthm and the ability to make your girlfriend drop her panties. Just listen, tune and do what you do. If you like the sound from these 3 then congratulations, you can officially quit ****in' around and just Rock the **** Out!!

Yes, My Hearing is Superior and there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT...


----------



## St. Dark

Headmaster Birch?!?! Why, he did a lot of Maiden's recordings!


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## atxtrd

Dire Straits - Dire Straits
Joshua Judges Ruth - Lyle Lovett

Two of my faves on my old Carver home set up with my Polk SDA-1c's.


----------



## Mark the Bold

I can tune any car with the digitally remastered Downward Spiral - Nine Inch Nails. Its got it all. Dynamics, piano, synth, drums, screams, DELIBERATE distortion, reverb, clear channel seperation, and of course range. Man, I'm getting wood just thinking about how awesome it must have been to mix that CD.....


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## titansfan

minibox said:


> Jackson Browne- Solo Acoustic Vol. 1 & 2


Nice choice!! I've always been a Jackson Browne fan, but I didn't know about this acoustic collection. I just purchased it and it's great...thanks for the suggestion.


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## bertholomey

Mark the Bold said:


> I can tune any car with the digitally remastered Downward Spiral - Nine Inch Nails. Its got it all. Dynamics, piano, synth, drums, screams, DELIBERATE distortion, reverb, clear channel seperation, and of course range. Man, I'm getting wood just thinking about how awesome it must have been to mix that CD.....


I heard the remastered Pretty Hate Machine album this past weekend at a DIYMA meet, and it was fantastic.


----------



## Mark the Bold

bertholomey said:


> I heard the remastered Pretty Hate Machine album this past weekend at a DIYMA meet, and it was fantastic.


Amen. Trent and Atticus really know how to use a recording studio as an instrument.


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## atxtrd

bertholomey said:


> I heard the remastered Pretty Hate Machine album this past weekend at a DIYMA meet, and it was fantastic.


Saw it and bought it wothout even thinking about it! Had the original release on vinyl and played the grooves out of it. Trents best work in my opinion.


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## bertholomey

Good deal - I bought it when it came out - back in college - felt the same way, didn't much care for most of the material after that. I think it is pretty cool that some in the industry are re-releasing discs like this for enthusiasts.


----------



## Buzzman

Here are some more highly recommended discs courtesy of the Buzzman:

*Dirty Dozen Brass Band “What’s Going On”*- Man, I just love this record. If you want to hear a cool fusion of Hip Hop, Blues, Jazz and Funk, that comes with sound quality that is absolutely stellar, this is a recording to acquire. I guarantee that you will not be able to stop listening to this record, and you will use more tracks from this record for demo purposes than you will with most records. There is nothing to criticize about the sound quality of this recording. From top to bottom, it’s natural sounding, well balanced and highly detailed. Every instrument and voice is so clearly reproduced in the mix that you feel as though the performers are right there in front of you. You like an extended, airy treble with a bit of sizzle? Check. You like a transparent, but smooth midrange? Check. You like articulate bass that goes deep without being bloated? Check. You like a wide and deep soundstage? Check. I guess that this recording would be a -7 db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.

*Los Lobos “Kiko” *– Outstanding sound quality here to go along with great music. This record sounds so smooth and natural. I am talking baby butt smooth, with terrific tonal balance. There is a lot going on in this recording that comes through clearly in the mix. The percussion instruments, in particular, really benefit from the engineering here. The bass is excellent, with great extension and clarity, and the soundstage is wide and deep. I estimate that this recording would be a -6db/-7db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.

*Madonna “Madonna” (Remastered)* – The “Material Girl” has never sounded better. Terrific remastering here gives us a dynamic, well balanced recording. The voices and instruments are clearly reproduced in the mix, and intricate musical details are easily discerned. The bass is just plan killer – tight and deep, but with appropriate weight and excellent clarity. The midrange is smooth and transparent, and the treble is extended and airy. The soundstage width is a bit pinched, but that’s a minor quibble. I estimate that this recording would be a -7db/-8db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.

*Steely Dan “Everything Must Go”*- I own every recording Steely Dan has made, and I am always amazed at how they just keep getting it right when it comes to the sound quality of their recordings. From top to bottom this records nails it: outstanding bass clarity and extension, smooth, detailed midrange with excellent depth and focus, and tonal balance to die for. I estimate that this recording would be a -6db/-7db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.

*Widespread Panic “Dirty Side Down”* - Although I have a few quibbles, I really like this record. It’s well balanced from top to bottom, offering an open, airy midrange and treble. Instruments and voices are clearly reproduced and precisely placed in the soundstage. The bass is not as detailed as I would have liked, and it sounds a bit rolled off. But, everything else about this record justifies its recommendation. I estimate that this recording would be a -7db/-8db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.

More to come.


----------



## ISTundra

Buzzman said:


> *Steely Dan “Everything Must Go”*- I own every recording Steely Dan has made, and I am always amazed at how they just keep getting it right when it comes to the sound quality of their recordings. From top to bottom this records nails it: outstanding bass clarity and extension, smooth, detailed midrange with excellent depth and focus, and tonal balance to die for. I estimate that this recording would be a -6db/-7db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.


Buzzman, I went out and bought this after hearing "Godwhacker" on your system. I agree - a nicely recorded album overall, as all Steely Dan albums are, but it’s not my favorite content-wise. Donald Fagen’s voice seems to be giving out in recent years, so this might be the last good one vocally.

I don’t know if they’ve been mentioned previously in this thread, but I’ll throw out a few gems that I’ve recently discovered (or re-discovered). I’m not going to try to be technical in my assessment of the recording quality. To me, they have excellent detail and clarity and most of all, sound great.

*Talking Heads - Stop Making Sense Special Edition*
The clarity in this expanded/remastered version is amazing. The individual detail of all the instruments stands out from each other, yet blends together to make fine music. The recordings here are better than any studio versions. Crowd noise, always a pet peeve of mine on live recordings, is almost non-existent, yet listening to this sort of gives you the feel of being there in the audience. I particularly like “Once in a Lifetime”, “Life During Wartime” “Making Flippy Floppy”, and “Crosseyed and Painless”. I even like Tom Tom Club’s “Genius of Love”, although the ad-libbing by drummer Chris Franke is a bit annoying.

*Alison Krauss & Union Station - Live*
Totally not my style of music, but high recording quality and the musicality of the group really stand out. Alison Krauss’ voice is phenomenal, and all of the vocal harmonies are rich & detailed. The mostly laid back bluegrass sound really showcases the uniqueness of the instruments used. My faves are: “Down to the River to Pray”, “The Boy Who Wouldn’t Hoe Corn”, “Oh Atlanta”, “Bright Sunny South”, and “Baby Now That I’ve Found You”.

*Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet*
PT has been mentioned in this thread before, and all of their albums are known for high recording quality. FOABP is not my overall favorite PT album, but “Anesthetize” is my favorite PT track, by far. The complex and intricate drumming on Anesthetize really sucks you in to stay with the song as it builds, and really stands out in the middle when things really kick in. Stay with the track for its entire 17 minutes; it really showcases a lot of musical diversity in a well-recorded effort.

Some others I’ve picked up recently that are nicely recorded:
*Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds - Live in Las Vegas
Blood Sweat & Tears - Greatest Hits remastered
Jackson Browne & David Lindley – Love is Strange* (acoustic)


----------



## Buzzman

As promised, some more highly recommended discs courtesy of the Buzzman:

*Elvis Costello & Allen Toussaint “The River In Reverse” *– This record really demonstrates Elvis Costello’s range as a musician. He teams with Allen Toussaint, a legendary New Orleans musician, to create some awesome music as a tribute to the Crescent City in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Not only do you get great music, but great sound quality as well. This record has a natural, smooth sound with excellent transparency. The treble is well extended and airy, and the bass is deep and full, without being bloated. The soundstage is wide and the midrange really shines. The voices and instruments are well delineated in the mix and Elvis’s voice is so realistically reproduced you get the sense he is in the room with you. I estimate that this recording would be a -7db/-8db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.

*Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings “I Learned The Hard Way” *– What a cool record! If you love “old school” Soul and R&B, done in the style of the old Stax and Atlantic Records, you will love this record. Everything about it is old school. Sharon Jones has some serious vocal chops, and the band is awesome. Think of Gladys Knight singing with Tower of Power. The music style sends you back in time, really. Listening to this record I get visions of the old, dark basement parties I attended in Brooklyn as a teenager. It even sounds old due to the recording techniques employed. It was recorded in its entirety on an old Ampex eight-track tape machine by Gabriel Roth in Daptone Records’ House of Soul studios, and has a truly analog sound quality that we often describe as “warm.” The recording is clean and stripped down. The bass is a bit lean, but the midrange really shines, and the voices and instruments are precisely placed within the soundstage. I estimate that this recording would be a -5db/-6db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout. 

*Curtis Mayfield “Curtis/Live!” (Rhino Records Remaster) *– This record captures a genius live in 1971 at the Bitter End nightclub in NYC. Curtis really kills it on this one. He is at his best, and the sound quality is on par due to the terrific remastering here. The sound is oh so smooth, with terrific tonal balance. The soundstage is wide and deep, and the treble is airy and extended, but the midrange is where this recording shines. Curtis’s voice is really captured well here; smooth as silk with excellent clarity and with no unwanted sibilance. The midrange transparency is excellent. You can literally see the hands of the conga player hitting the skins. The soundstage is wide and deep, and the enthusiasm and presence of the audience is captured very well, thus giving the listener of sense of “being there,” Take a listen to track 4, “We’re a Winner,” and you will see what I mean. I couldn't help but clap along with the audience!  Yes, there is some feedback and guitar amplifier distortion you typically hear at a live performance. But, that is kept to a low level and actually adds to the authenticity of the musical experience you get with this record. My only quibble with this recording is that the bass guitar sometimes gets a bit lost in the mix, and sounds a little muddled. I wish they were able to consistently reproduce the bass with the clarity that Curtis’s voice, the conga and the snare drum are reproduced, for example. Don’t get me wrong. It’s not bad. It’s just me wanting a perfect musical experience to have perfect sound. I estimate that this recording would be a -5db/-6db on the intrinsic loudness scale that I have been referencing throughout.


----------



## Buzzman

ISTundra said:


> Buzzman, I went out and bought this after hearing "Godwhacker" on your system. I agree - a nicely recorded album overall, as all Steely Dan albums are, but it’s not my favorite content-wise. Donald Fagen’s voice seems to be giving out in recent years, so this might be the last good one vocally. . . .


Todd, I agree that "Everything Must Go" is not the best the Dan have put out. "Two Against Nature," which preceded it, is a superior record in my view. But, if one wants an expanded list of "reference" quality recordings, and you are a fan of the Dan, it shouldn't be left out. I saw the Dan in LA in 2008 at Nokia Theatre and Fagen's voice was not what it was. He was struggling with the upper register. But, perhaps he was just going through a bad period. I remember seeing Smokey Robinson live about 20 years ago and it was sad. I thought he had lost it forever. Different story now, though. He is sounding like his old self. Let's hope that's the case with Fagen.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, here are some more highly recommended reference quality pop/rock/R&B recordings to add to your collection:


*“Old School Soul Party” (3 CD Compilation)*: Wow! If you love “old school R&B and Funk, this is a must get compilation. The music is terrific, and the sound quality is as well. Shout Factory did an outstanding job of remastering the 58 tracks on this 3 CD set. As with every compilation there are some weak songs that you will not listen to often. But the bulk of the tracks are real standouts. Throw yourself a party and drop these disks in the changer and no one will be sitting for long. There are some serious “jams” here. This is the set for you if you want to hear funk/R&B dance tunes with real, not synthesized, bass that will give your subwoofer and midbass set-up a real workout. The real surprise for me is how good these tracks sound. The clarity and focus throughout the entire frequency range is excellent. The separation of voices and instruments in the mix is excellent. Overall, the tonal balance is superb, with a really smooth midrange and treble and no overt digital glare. Often times, so much gets lost in the mix with music of this type, but not here. The soundstage is deep and wide too. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

*Galactic – “Coolin’ Off”:* Galactic has become one of my favorite bands and I earlier recommended their “We Love ‘Em Tonight – Live @ Tipitina’s album in this thread. This record offers even better SQ. It’s a hybrid HDCD recording and that great love was put into this recording is obvious at first listen. It’s really transparent and dynamic, without crossing the brightness line. The tonal balance is superb, and as with “We Love ‘Em Tonight,” the bass and mid-bass is absolutely killer, with impressive impact, clarity and dynamics. This is a great recording to test the transient response of your sub and mid-bass speakers and their ability to resolve low level details in the lower frequencies. The treble is nice an airy, the midrange is open and smooth, and each instrument and voice is clearly delineated in the mix. The soundstage width is somewhat limited compared to other recordings I have recommended, but everything else about this record makes you want to play it over and over. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -5 / -6db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

*Ray Lamontagne – “Till The Sun Turns Black”:* An outstanding record and recording. Ray’s voice really “blooms,” and there is a real analog-like quality to this recording. The soundstage is spacious and the “air” around each instrument is palpable. The tonal balance is terrific, with a buttery smooth midrange and treble. The midrange really stands out in this recording, but there a number of tracks in which the lower bass frequencies really do get explored. Given the overall, mellow, sometimes somber, feel of the record, it catches you of guard. Check out track 4, “Three More Days” and track 6 “You Can Bring Me Flowers” for example.” Ray brings the funk here, and they are a welcome change of pace in the record. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*Indigenous – “Live At Pachyderm Studio 1998”: * This record and group is a terrific find. A Native American Blues/Rock band, I was introduced to them while listening to my Blues station on Pandora. The guitar playing of the lead singer Mato Nanji made my head spin. Man, this dude has some SERIOUS chops. Jimi Hendrix’s influence on him is quite obvious. So, I ordered this record on Amazon based solely on the quality of the music I heard. Well, the sound quality on this record is excellent. Overall, the tonal balance is excellent, but it’s in the bass frequencies where this record really shines. The electric bass is reproduced with outstanding clarity and detail. The treble is a tad rolled off, but the midrange is clean and dynamic, while also being smooth. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -6db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*Dusty Springfield – “Dusty In Memphis (Deluxe Edition)”:* A classic recording that sounds great due to the remastering magic performed by Rhino Records. The recording venue is so evident in this recording, and its analog roots are just as evident. Dusty’s voice and every instrument and background voice are rendered oh so smooth, and with great focus. The sound stage is wide and deep. The “Old School” recording techniques used on this record are really well displayed here. There is real dynamic range and no excessive compression. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -4db/-5db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*James Hunter – “People Gonna Talk”: * This is a real throwback record. It could easily have been made in the early-mid 1960’s. The feel is old school R&B and it is beautifully balanced from top to bottom, with a smooth, natural tonal balance. James is a British R^B singer/guitarist whose wonderful voice really shines on this record. His voice is really well focused, and the supporting instrumentation is nicely placed in the soundstage. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -7db/-8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.


----------



## Buzzman

Here are two more enthusiastic recommendations:


*Red Hot Chili Peppers – “Stadium Arcadium”: * This record was produced by Rick Rubin and it is terrific, both musically and sonically. I have already touted his work with Johnny Cash. Vlado Meller did the mastering, and I think this is one of his best efforts. It’s not as loud as many of the other recordings he has mastered tend to me, which allows you to really experience the inherent dynamics of this recording. It has the edginess you want with a record of this type, but the edge is softened which makes listening to it so pleasurable. The bass on this recording is absolutely outstanding. There is great impact and the electric bass and kick drums are reproduced with amazing clarity and resolution, and there is warmth often missing from digital recordings. This is another great disc with which to test the transient response of your bass and midbass transducers. The midrange and treble are crystalline, resulting in the guitars and voices being reproduced with wonderful realism and focus. The overall tonal balance is terrific. No particular frequency range stands out from the rest. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*Clair Marlo – “Behaviour Self”:* This record is hard to find now, but it’s really worth seeking out. Clair is blessed with a terrific voice, and it really shines on this record. The competitors on this forum will recognize the second track, “Too Close,” from the IASCA test CD. The selection of that track for a competition test CD is a testament to the recording excellence exhibited on this record. As good as “Too Close” is, musically and sonically there are others on this CD I prefer. This record epitomizes excellent tonal balance. It’s a real pleasure to listen to it. It’s “musical” from top to bottom, and there is great transparency and detail throughout. The bass is reproduced with a natural fullness and warmth, yet it’s wonderfully detailed at the same time. The midrange is simply spectacular; Clair’s voice and the supporting instruments are rendered palpably real. The treble is extended and airy with percussive details coming through clearly. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -5db / -6db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.


----------



## nirschl

Just wanted to bump this thread with a acouple recommendations. 

"Wynton Marsalis and Eric Clapton Play The Blues"

Just picked it up the other day and have not wanted to stop listening. Great album and great collaboration!

Also picked up George Duke's "A Brazilian Love Affair." 
This was a remaster of the original 1979 release. Another great album! 


Cheers


----------



## Ct Drummer

I've just listened to the new solo disc from Porcupine Tree founder Steven Wilson. Grace for Drowning is what I consider to one of the highlights of this years releases. 
Musically it is so much better than all of drivel that seems to be prevalent in modern music today. It crosses the lines between rock\psychodelia and jazz with ease. And though the styles change throught the 2 discs, none of the songs ever sounds disconnected from one another.
Sonically it's another masterpiece from Steven Wilson. The recording is crystal clear without being the least bit harsh. And though it's revealing, the warmth comes through. With the right system you can hear the depth in every layer and instrument from the deepest bass to the highest crash cymbals and synthesizers.
It is one of my new references for my home and car.

Mike


----------



## Notloudenuf

I found this website through a google search for Sausalito Audio Works.
Welcome to the SoundStage! Network - www.SoundStageNetwork.com
SoundStageRecordings.com


> 2L (Lindberg Lyd) records in spacious acoustic venues: large concert halls, churches, and cathedrals. This is actually where we can make the most intimate recordings. The qualities we seek in large rooms are not necessarily a big reverb, but openness due to the absence of close reflecting walls. Making an ambient and beautiful recording is the way of least resistance.


There are quite a few recordings available for free on this page.
High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services .:. FLAC in free TEST BENCH


----------



## minibox

Not your average commercial recording but I thought I'd share. Chesky records the same song and artist in the same space but using two different mics. You can get a sense of how dissimilar the same song can be when different recording equipment is used.
Album Title: Explorations in Space and Time (Binaural)
Artist: Jamey Haddad / Mark Sherman / Lenny White


----------



## Buzzman

minibox said:


> Not your average commercial recording but I thought I'd share. Chesky records the same song and artist in the same space but using two different mics. You can get a sense of how dissimilar the same song can be when different recording equipment is used.
> Album Title: Explorations in Space and Time (Binaural)
> Artist: Jamey Haddad / Mark Sherman / Lenny White


Thanks for this tip. I am a huge Lenny White fan. Here is a link for the download for those who want to check this out: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HX090368035264


----------



## Buzzman

I saw this on the Chesky HD Tracks web site and it is quite relevant to the subject matter of this thread. Steve is an old friend of mine and he knows his s*!t. 


"Steve Guttenberg's Top 25 Best Sounding Pop Albums


Selecting titles for this HDtracks top 25 list was a labor of love. First and foremost, the music had to be great, and I put a high priority on sound quality. Sure, defining exactly what good sound sounds like can be a little tricky, but there are objective standards that characterize sound quality: Low distortion, wide frequency response, and uninhibited dynamic range. On a more subjective basis, the best sounding music has an almost magical effect in the way it connects with me on an emotional level. That is, I feel closer to the music when it sounds realistic. 

The music was--after all--performed by human beings, and the best recordings preserve that feel. While most rock and blues records rarely provide the heightened transparency and unrestricted dynamic range I hear from well-recorded classical music, a good number of these titles are audiophile grade material. Instead of two-dimensional, pancake-flat soundstages, many titles feature life-like imaging. Dynamic "slam" will be visceral and midrange tonality superb. So when you upgrade your hi-fi the sound of all of these recordings will continue to astonish. In any case, the best-sounding rock or blues HDtracks downloads will get your mojo working. 

-- Steve Guttenberg 

Steve Guttenberg writes for CNET, Stereophile and Home Entertainment Magazine.


Belle And Sebastian, The Boy With The Arab Strap (Matador Records)


Jerry Garcia | David Grisman, So What (Acoustic Disc)


Cat Power, The Greatest (Matador Records)


The Kinks, One For the Road (Live) (KOCH Records) 96/24


John Hammond, Rough & Tough (Chesky Records) 96/24


Roy Orbison, The Original Sound (Sun Disc)


Jimmy Rogers, Blue Bird (APO Records) 96/24


David Grisman, Tone Poems (Acoustic Disc)


Steely Dan, Gaucho (Geffen Records) 96/24


Eomot RaSun, Three Days Walkin' (APO Records)


Sam Cooke, Sam Cooke at the Copa (ABKCO Records) 88/24


Rebecca Pidgeon, Four Marys (Chesky Records) 96/24


The Holmes Brothers, Simple Truths (Alligator Records)


Ted Hawkins, Songs From Venice Beach (Evidence Records)


The Persuasions, The Persuasions Sing U2 (Chesky Records) 96/24


Albert King | Stevie Ray Vaughan, In Session (Stax Records) 96/24


Ani DiFranco, Like I Said (Righteous Babe Records)


Livingston Taylor, Ink (Chesky Records) 96/24


Alison Krauss | Robert Plant, Raising Sand (Rounder Records) 96/24


Donovan, Beat Cafe (Appleseed Recordings)


David Johansen & The Harry Smiths, Shaker (Chesky Records) 96/24


Dave's True Story, Sex Without Bodies (Chesky Records) 96/24


Billy Burnette, Memphis in Manhattan (Chesky Records) 96/24


Jimmy D. Lane, Legacy (APO Records)


Corky Siegel, Corky Siegel's Traveling Chamber Blues Show (Alligator Records)"

Here is a link to the Chesky HD Tracks web page if you want to download any of these recordings: 

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=staticpage&pagename=criticspicks


----------



## minibox

I've downloaded a number of these albums and they are fantastic recordings of great music. After searching through a lot of the songs on hdtracks I found this list contains the best the site has to offer. 




Buzzman said:


> I saw this on the Chesky HD Tracks web site and it is quite relevant to the subject matter of this thread. Steve is an old friend of mine and he knows his s*!t.
> 
> 
> "Steve Guttenberg's Top 25 Best Sounding Pop Albums
> 
> 
> Selecting titles for this HDtracks top 25 list was a labor of love. First and foremost, the music had to be great, and I put a high priority on sound quality. Sure, defining exactly what good sound sounds like can be a little tricky, but there are objective standards that characterize sound quality: Low distortion, wide frequency response, and uninhibited dynamic range. On a more subjective basis, the best sounding music has an almost magical effect in the way it connects with me on an emotional level. That is, I feel closer to the music when it sounds realistic.
> 
> The music was--after all--performed by human beings, and the best recordings preserve that feel. While most rock and blues records rarely provide the heightened transparency and unrestricted dynamic range I hear from well-recorded classical music, a good number of these titles are audiophile grade material. Instead of two-dimensional, pancake-flat soundstages, many titles feature life-like imaging. Dynamic "slam" will be visceral and midrange tonality superb. So when you upgrade your hi-fi the sound of all of these recordings will continue to astonish. In any case, the best-sounding rock or blues HDtracks downloads will get your mojo working.
> 
> -- Steve Guttenberg
> 
> Steve Guttenberg writes for CNET, Stereophile and Home Entertainment Magazine.
> 
> 
> Belle And Sebastian, The Boy With The Arab Strap (Matador Records)
> 
> 
> Jerry Garcia | David Grisman, So What (Acoustic Disc)
> 
> 
> Cat Power, The Greatest (Matador Records)
> 
> 
> The Kinks, One For the Road (Live) (KOCH Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> John Hammond, Rough & Tough (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Roy Orbison, The Original Sound (Sun Disc)
> 
> 
> Jimmy Rogers, Blue Bird (APO Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> David Grisman, Tone Poems (Acoustic Disc)
> 
> 
> Steely Dan, Gaucho (Geffen Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Eomot RaSun, Three Days Walkin' (APO Records)
> 
> 
> Sam Cooke, Sam Cooke at the Copa (ABKCO Records) 88/24
> 
> 
> Rebecca Pidgeon, Four Marys (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> The Holmes Brothers, Simple Truths (Alligator Records)
> 
> 
> Ted Hawkins, Songs From Venice Beach (Evidence Records)
> 
> 
> The Persuasions, The Persuasions Sing U2 (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Albert King | Stevie Ray Vaughan, In Session (Stax Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Ani DiFranco, Like I Said (Righteous Babe Records)
> 
> 
> Livingston Taylor, Ink (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Alison Krauss | Robert Plant, Raising Sand (Rounder Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Donovan, Beat Cafe (Appleseed Recordings)
> 
> 
> David Johansen & The Harry Smiths, Shaker (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Dave's True Story, Sex Without Bodies (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Billy Burnette, Memphis in Manhattan (Chesky Records) 96/24
> 
> 
> Jimmy D. Lane, Legacy (APO Records)
> 
> 
> Corky Siegel, Corky Siegel's Traveling Chamber Blues Show (Alligator Records)"
> 
> Here is a link to the Chesky HD Tracks web page if you want to download any of these recordings:
> 
> https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=staticpage&pagename=criticspicks


----------



## Buzzman

I finally got around to reading my January, 2012 issue of The Absolute Sound yesterday on my flight to LA. Here is an editorial by Robert Harley that sheds more light on why most modern pop recordings sounds as bad as they do. Great reading.


----------



## minibox

Buzzman,
Thank you for sharing such an informative article that supports my increasing appreciation for music recorded in the late 50's and 60's. As my home setup improves I've dedicated a lot more time looking for accurate and well recorded music. 
One album I've been particularly impressed with is _Davy Graham: Folk, Blues and Beyond_. This album was recorded in 1964 and is a perfect example of the pure and straightforward recordings of that era.


----------



## Buzzman

minibox said:


> Buzzman,
> Thank you for sharing such an informative article that supports my increasing appreciation for music recorded in the late 50's and 60's. As my home setup improves I've dedicated a lot more time looking for accurate and well recorded music.
> One album I've been particularly impressed with is _Davy Graham: Folk, Blues and Beyond_. This album was recorded in 1964 and is a perfect example of the pure and straightforward recordings of that era.


Minibox, the pleasure is all mine. Music is my passion and I want to share with the members here any resource I have that will expose them to great music that is well recorded. I have recordings from the mid-'50's that put to shame the vast majority of "modern" recordings. It's just boggles my mind that recording quality could fall so far despite the much improved recording technology. That's why I put a premium on findings recordings by engineers and producers who understand that great music performance and great recording quality are not mutually exclusive. And, of course, there are a good number of artists who recognize this and insist that recording quality not take a back seat to the music performance. I only wish this were the norm. But, so long as the average consumer find average or less than average sound quality sufficient, circumstances won't change.


----------



## chad

Hmm, I'm going to have to give The Greatest a listen to again.


----------



## Buzzman

chad said:


> Hmm, I'm going to have to give The Greatest a listen to again.


Hey Chad, it's so funny you mentioned this album. I have been listening to the ones on Steve's list I hadn't heard, and listened to tracks from this album this morning. I am curious to learn your thoughts, but I think it's terrific and plan to pick up a copy. I cannot argue with Steve putting it on his list. And, it turns out that Rolling Stone had it at #6 of its Top 50 records of 2006, so it has some music cred.


----------



## chad

Buzzman said:


> Hey Chad, it's so funny you mentioned this album. I have been listening to the ones on Steve's list I hadn't heard, and listened to tracks from this album this morning. I am curious to learn your thoughts, but I think it's terrific and plan to pick up a copy. I cannot argue with Steve putting it on his list. And, it turns out that Rolling Stone had it at #6 of its Top 50 records of 2006, so it has some music cred.


I think it's a great album, but I guess I never really listened INTO it far enough, know what I'm saying?


----------



## chad

Elbow's Seldom Seen Kid does not suck at all either, well done album.


----------



## marvnmars

chad said:


> Elbow's Seldom Seen Kid does not suck at all either, well done album.


i have been loving that bass slide in grounds for divorce for a while... have you heard motopony's the seer yet? the kick drums make my break peddle vibrate under my foot....


----------



## Buzzman

chad said:


> I think it's a great album, but I guess I never really listened INTO it far enough, know what I'm saying?


Yeah, I know what you mean. I have been guilty of that too. :laugh: But, based on the limited listening I have done, there is a lot to like about this record’s sonics – her voice has a crystalline quality without any oppressive sibilance when she sings in the upper registers. There is quite a bit going on in the mix and the recording has an airy, transparent quality that reveals all of this.



chad said:


> Elbow's Seldom Seen Kid does not suck at all either, well done album.


Hmmm. I have never even heard of this group. I will have to check them out. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## GavGT

Good to S&M on that list, i've always liked that album. Metallica's version of Tuesday's Gone off the Garage Inc album also amazes me. Would love to hear your thoughts on it Buzzman if you get chance!

Gav


----------



## chad

Buzzman said:


> Hmmm. I have never even heard of this group. I will have to check them out. Thanks for the tip.


It was my favorite album of the year for 2011, maybe it was 2010, but regardless, you will like it.

I Have to move my router in the shop tonight so I'll be offline, maybe I'll get some listening in.


----------



## Buzzman

Gav[/QUOTE]

Gavi, I love that song, and “Turn The Page” also. I am not a fan of most of Metallica’s music, but those two songs are in my wheelhouse. I can’t opine on the recording quality of “Garage Inc.” as I have not listened to the actual CD. But, if it’s mastered by George Marino, who did S&M (which John Vestman praised in his list that I linked in my first post of this thread), it likely has a really good chance of being a recommended SQ disc. 



chad said:


> It was my favorite album of the year for 2011, maybe it was 2010, but regardless, you will like it. . . .


Chad, you were right about the Elbow album. I ordered it on Amazon.  By the way, the album was released in 2008. If the recording quality meets my standards I think “Grounds for Divorce” and “An Audience With The Pope” will be finding their way onto my next demo discs.


----------



## minibox

This is one of those rare albums where the sound quality from the first note takes your breath away if played on a good system. I've been listening to this album every evening and morning before work for the past two weeks. Fabulous.
Shelby Lynne
Just a Little Lovin'


----------



## Buzzman

minibox said:


> This is one of those rare albums where the sound quality from the first note takes your breath away if played on a good system. I've been listening to this album every evening and morning before work for the past two weeks. Fabulous.
> Shelby Lynne
> Just a Little Lovin'


Minibox, man you are definitely cut from the Buzzman mold! Shelby is the bomb and you are so right about that recording. If you love that album, and if you haven't bought this album yet, get a copy of - *Dusty Springfield's "Live In Memphis (Deluxe Edition)."* I recommended it earlier in post 220. Dusty's influence on Shelby will be quite clear. 

Also check out:
*Melody Gardot "My One And Only Thrill" *
*Sophie Milman "Take Love Easy."* and 
*Christy Baron "I Thought About You"*

You will be equally, if not more, impressed with these. Although these vocalists fall more into the Jazz genre, I had intended to list these recordings here for a while due to their clearly "pop" feel. So, here they are. I will provide more detailed reviews soon.


----------



## minibox

Buzzman said:


> Minibox, man you are definitely cut from the Buzzman mold! Shelby is the bomb and you are so right about that recording. If you love that album, and if you haven't bought this album yet, get a copy of - *Dusty Springfield's "Live In Memphis (Deluxe Edition)."* I recommended it earlier in post 220. Dusty's influence on Shelby will be quite clear.
> 
> Also check out:
> *Melody Gardot "My One And Only Thrill" *
> *Sophie Milman "Take Love Easy."* and
> *Christy Baron "I Thought About You"*
> 
> You will be equally, if not more, impressed with these. Although these vocalists fall more into the Jazz genre, I had intended to list these recordings here for a while due to their clearly "pop" feel. So, here they are. I will provide more detailed reviews soon.


Love Christy Baron! I will surely be checking out these other albums. Thanks!


----------



## Wesayso

After these jazz style females I am curious what you think about the POP singer Kimbra with her album Vows. I like her "live" recordings (floating on Youtube and available as a DVD in the deluxe set) even better but this clearly is pop with a bit of a jazzy feeling .


----------



## marvnmars

check out kandi by one eskimo then listen to some Candi Staton doing He Called Me Baby the song that inspired kandi...


----------



## Buzzman

Wesayso said:


> After these jazz style females I am curious what you think about the POP singer Kimbra with her album Vows. I like her "live" recordings (floating on Youtube and available as a DVD in the deluxe set) even better but this clearly is pop with a bit of a jazzy feeling .


Ronald drops the Kimbra bomb.  She has serious vocal skills. There's no doubt about that, and the live performances definitely showcase them. I just can't attest to whether the recording quality is of "reference" level for me as I don't own the album. If I can locate a reasonably priced copy I might just buy it.


----------



## marvnmars

Wesayso said:


> After these jazz style females I am curious what you think about the POP singer Kimbra with her album Vows. I like her "live" recordings (floating on Youtube and available as a DVD in the deluxe set) even better but this clearly is pop with a bit of a jazzy feeling .


she has def made an impact with gotye's song somebody that i used to know, but i have not been exposed to any of her other stuff yet, but i will. for jazz pop, i still like sade..soooo smooth.


----------



## Notloudenuf

minibox said:


> This is one of those rare albums where the sound quality from the first note takes your breath away if played on a good system. I've been listening to this album every evening and morning before work for the past two weeks. Fabulous.
> Shelby Lynne
> Just a Little Lovin'


I'm listening to this on youtube now :surprised: 
Please bring this CD with you to the meet in May.


----------



## Wesayso

marvnmars said:


> check out kandi by one eskimo then listen to some Candi Staton doing He Called Me Baby the song that inspired kandi...


I like this song! Going to check out that CD!


----------



## WRX/Z28

Days of the New III the red albumn is recorded very well. I use it as demo material all the time.


----------



## bertholomey

Buzzman said:


> Minibox, man you are definitely cut from the Buzzman mold! Shelby is the bomb and you are so right about that recording. If you love that album, and if you haven't bought this album yet, get a copy of - *Dusty Springfield's "Live In Memphis (Deluxe Edition)."* I recommended it earlier in post 220. Dusty's influence on Shelby will be quite clear.
> 
> Also check out:
> *Melody Gardot "My One And Only Thrill" *
> *Sophie Milman "Take Love Easy."* and
> *Christy Baron "I Thought About You"*
> 
> You will be equally, if not more, impressed with these. Although these vocalists fall more into the Jazz genre, I had intended to list these recordings here for a while due to their clearly "pop" feel. So, here they are. I will provide more detailed reviews soon.


I really like Melody Gardot - I have included 'Who Will Comfort Me', 'Your Heart Is As Black As Night' and 'Some Lessons' on my NC Meet discs. She has a fascinating story as well.

I haven't gone through this thread in a bit, so forgive if I mention an album that has been previously mentioned. 

Adele 19 - Deluxe Edition - the studio bit isn't that great a recording, but we have found the live disc to be exceptional.


----------



## bertholomey

WRX/Z28 said:


> Days of the New III the red albumn is recorded very well. I use it as demo material all the time.


Wow! I had no idea they released a Green album and now a Red album. I loved the Yellow album when it came out - heard they broke up and that was that. I'll have to pick it up - thanks for the tip.


----------



## bertholomey

Sorry for hogging up all the posts on this thread (probably sick of seeing the scary clown). 

Minibox and I had the opportunity to hear some of these tracks on some very nice equipment tonight. Audio Research tube pre + tube amp... Ariel 7t and Wilson Sophia 3's.... WOW! Great time, great music, and great gear.


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Sorry for hogging up all the posts on this thread (probably sick of seeing the scary clown).
> 
> Minibox and I had the opportunity to hear some of these tracks on some very nice equipment tonight. Audio Research tube pre + tube amp... Ariel 7t and Wilson Sophia 3's.... WOW! Great time, great music, and great gear.


Jason, you can hog as much as you like, especially when you showcase such great gear!!  I wish I could have been there to share that experience with you guys. In keeping with the goals of this thread, what recordings impressed you the most?


----------



## bertholomey

Well.....

Nickel Creek's _This Side_; 'Smoothie Song', 'Spit on a Stranger', 'Speak', and 'Sabra Girl' - the quality of the strings and voices were amazing

Davy Graham - brilliant strings

Leonard Cohen's 'Boogie Creek' - these speakers captured the nuance that is Cohen's voice - it was big, low, and raspy.

Jennifer Warnes, 'Bird on a Wire' - Absolutely amazing - perceived the level of detail and resolution between various drivers (percussion details primarily) - depth of bass response as well.

Shelby Lynn's 'Just a little lovin' - again, very revealing for detail / resolution

Alison Krauss and Union Station - Live - 'Touch me for a while' and 'The boy who wouldn't hoe corn' The Dobro was alive!

Interestingly, we heard a significant difference in the presentation of Alison and Shelby's voice on the Aerials versus the Wilsons. The Wilson speakers seemed to present their voices a bit more nasally. 

Jackie Evancho - absolutely brilliant with the large orchestra in an outdoor setting. On 'Lovers', the large crescendos seem very garbled / distorted in the car - one these speakers with good equipment, this passage was very defined - large and with wonderful presence. 

Basically, I'm going to stay away from my car for a few days to let my audible memory fade - I don't necessarily want my car to be compared to the reference that is my head


----------



## minibox

bertholomey said:


> Sorry for hogging up all the posts on this thread (probably sick of seeing the scary clown).
> 
> Minibox and I had the opportunity to hear some of these tracks on some very nice equipment tonight. Audio Research tube pre + tube amp... Ariel 7t and Wilson Sophia 3's.... WOW! Great time, great music, and great gear.


Seeing these pictures makes me want to jump in my car and head back over for another couple hours of listening  Hard to believe the level of control and authority of the Wilsons in the lower end. I had a difficult time sleeping last night just thinking about the delicateness and detail of the aerials though. Heaven help me and the inevitable damage that will come to my checkbook as a result of repeated visits like this


----------



## Notloudenuf

Wow, can I get an invite next time?


----------



## bertholomey

Sure can... I'm going to listen in West Palm next week.... 

We will let you know the next time we go to Raleigh.... although.... it will be hard to get all three of us on that couch.


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> . . . Basically, I'm going to stay away from my car for a few days to let my audible memory fade - I don't necessarily want my car to be compared to the reference that is my head


Actually, you should do the opposite and get in your car and play those recordings while your aural memory is still strong. You will have a much clearer sense of what you should be striving to achieve in your car with regard to music playback.



bertholomey said:


> . . . it will be hard to get all three of us on that couch.


Hmmmm. Something going on here we should know about, or is this a commentary on dietary habits?:laugh:


----------



## bertholomey

You are correct sir in theory, but I would be so thoroughly depressed that I might be driven to have a fire sale of all my mobile gear so I may purchase home gear.....  I'm hoping to listen to some Audio Note gear next week. 

No seriously, busy weekend, so not much time for listening unfortunately. I'm trying to learn how to use JRiver Media Center so it will take the place of iTunes (pc based system). If anyone has experience with it, please pm me). 

Concerning the 'couch', there was a theater 'love seat' in this listening room, and there was a bit of consternation about two dudes sitting close together listening to music. Three on that couch would really raise eyebrows, but I'm sure we could find another chair and take turns in the 'sweet spot'.


----------



## Wesayso

bertholomey said:


> Concerning the 'couch', there was a theater 'love seat' in this listening room, and there was a bit of consternation about two dudes sitting close together listening to music. Three on that couch would really raise eyebrows, but I'm sure we could find another chair and take turns in the 'sweet spot'.


The beauty of male bonding (lol)


----------



## bertholomey

Wesayso said:


> The beauty of male bonding (lol)


.... While tearing up to the crescendo of Jackie Evancho's 'Nessum Dorma'


----------



## minibox

bertholomey said:


> .... While tearing up to the crescendo of Jackie Evancho's 'Nessum Dorma'


Oh, don't even get me started on that song the other night. Absolutely beautiful. Wait, let me check, masculinity still intact......


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> You are correct sir in theory, but I would be so thoroughly depressed that I might be driven to have a fire sale of all my mobile gear so I may purchase home gear.....  I'm hoping to listen to some Audio Note gear next week.


Listen to those paired with Avantgarde Duo or Trio speakers. You thought last week's listening session was great? In addition to Kleenex tissues you will need diapers for that listening session.   



bertholomey said:


> No seriously, busy weekend, so not much time for listening unfortunately. I'm trying to learn how to use JRiver Media Center so it will take the place of iTunes (pc based system). If anyone has experience with it, please pm me).


I just downloaded JRMC last night, so I can't offer a tutorial yet. But, get a copy of the January, 2012 issue of The Absolute Sound. There is a great article called "Computer Music Audio Quality" and JRMC fares extremely well.



bertholomey said:


> Concerning the 'couch', there was a theater 'love seat' in this listening room, and there was a bit of consternation about two dudes sitting close together listening to music. Three on that couch would really raise eyebrows, but I'm sure we could find another chair and take turns in the 'sweet spot'.


I figured as much having been there and done that so many times. I was just busting your chops. True audiophiles know exactly where you are coming from.


----------



## bertholomey

Buzzman said:


> I just downloaded JRMC last night, so I can't offer a tutorial yet. But, get a copy of the January, 2012 issue of The Absolute Sound. There is a great article called "Computer Music Audio Quality" and JRMC fares extremely well.


That is what clued me into the software, and frustration with iTunes is what motivated me to learn something new (old dog....)


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> That is what clued me into the software. . . .


:laugh: Same with me.


----------



## antikryst

bertholomey said:


> Concerning the 'couch', there was a theater 'love seat' in this listening room, and there was a bit of consternation about two dudes sitting close together listening to music. Three on that couch would really raise eyebrows, but I'm sure we could find another chair and take turns in the 'sweet spot'.


sweet spot? that would be the center of the love seat then. have someone sit on the center... on the REAL sweet spot and not to the side of it. then dude 2 on dude 1s lap! hahaha.


----------



## trumpet

This might be off the typical path of recommended material for this thread, but I'm blown away by how good the album 'Frengers' by Mew sounds. I bought it on eMusic.com recently and I went for a drive to check it out at maximum volume. They're a Danish progressive rock band.


----------



## Wesayso

Buzzman said:


> I just downloaded JRMC last night, so I can't offer a tutorial yet. But, get a copy of the January, 2012 issue of The Absolute Sound. There is a great article called "Computer Music Audio Quality" and JRMC fares extremely well.


You guys got me hooked on JRMC... I was fine with foobar just a week ago .

But JRMC also does video so I can use this with the needed DSP for that as well. I like it a lot! Using Asio to my soundcard.
Here's a good start:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/JRiver-Media-Center-17-Detail


----------



## Buzzman

trumpet said:


> This might be off the typical path of recommended material for this thread, but I'm blown away by how good the album 'Frengers' by Mew sounds. I bought it on eMusic.com recently and I went for a drive to check it out at maximum volume. They're a Danish progressive rock band.


Actually, this is exactly the kind of music for which this thread was started. I had never heard of this band, but they are obviously highly regarded and have a dedicated fan following. I don’t have a copy of the CD but did listen to excerpts of the tracks, and based on that brief listening session the sound quality didn’t impress me. Enlighten us, please, on that topic. 



Wesayso said:


> You guys got me hooked on JRMC... I was fine with foobar just a week ago .
> But JRMC also does video so I can use this with the needed DSP for that as well. I like it a lot! Using Asio to my soundcard.
> Here's a good start:
> JRiver Media Center 17 In Detail | Computer Audiophile


Yes, there is a lot to like about this software.


----------



## bertholomey

I need to add back the photos I moved this morning of the listening room at Audio Advice in Durham, NC.




























More listening last night at a dealer who has a shop in his home (Wellington Audio). He sells many different lines of gear, but I went to listen to Audio Note speakers. Audio Note

2 sets of AN-E's - they are designed to be corner loaded like this. Very musical, natural sounding presentation. (that's a hemp cone!)









Various Audio Note amplifiers, pre-amps, and DACs









The cd player looking thing on the floor was very cool. Resolution Audio - The Cantata Music Center - Multiple sources, zero compromises.










Very different presentation of the same music that I played on the AR / Aerial / Wilson gear. These didn't image on the soundstage - very strange - things were just not pinpoint accurate where they aught to be, but overall, the sound was extremely pleasing to me. It is like getting in a car where the voice is imaging over the steering wheel in every track (either due to lack of time alignment, or owner's preference). Even if all other aspects of the sound is fantastic, unless you re-learn or somehow 'accept' it as ok, it might be difficult to totally enjoy. Anyway, that is enough of me and my home audio demos. 

I don't know if this album has been mentioned yet....don't know if any of you have it....it is what I'm listening to this morning......Hugh Laurie's 'Let Them Talk'. I can't really comment right now on how well it is recorded (iPod / headphones), but some excellent music. I played a track last night and asked the dealer to guess the artist - he was shocked that it was House.


----------



## marvnmars

hugh is a big time piano player/music fan, his voice is what it is, and he does not try to make it out perform it's limitations, all in all, not a bad album by the actor.


----------



## bertholomey

I agree completely.....and it's weird, I like his voice on this album... it is a bit 'tongue in cheek'.... a bit snarky..... like the character.


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> I agree completely.....and it's weird, I like his voice on this album... it is a bit 'tongue in cheek'.... a bit snarky..... like the character.


Yeah, Hugh is very talented indeed. I haven't heard that album though. I saw a performance of his at a Jazz/Blues club in New Orleans on PBS last year and I was very impressed. He definitely fit the New Orleans vibe. A lot of people didn't realize that he is actually playing the piano on those episodes of House. The thing that always caught my eye though was the SOTA Sapphire turntable in his house. I bought one of the first SOTA turntables back in 1986 or so. Anyway, back to Hugh, his voice has a "character" to it, the kind that distinguishes what I call "singers" from "vocalists." Think of Louis Armstrong, Chet Baker, Dr. John, Elvis Costello - to me, they are great singers because of despite limited vocal range, they communicate emotion very well through the tone of their voice and how they handle a lyric.


----------



## marvnmars

and then there was leonard cohen....maybe the best at bringing the spoken word to emotional fruition...although to me dylan made the most with the least, espacially his last few albums..if you see bob live, do not expect much, his youthful limited range has been replaced by even more limited range, still glad i got to see him live tho..


----------



## bertholomey

Buzzman said:


> *The thing that always caught my eye though was the SOTA Sapphire turntable in his house. * I bought one of the first SOTA turntables back in 1986 or so. Anyway, back to Hugh, his voice has a "character" to it, the kind that distinguishes what I call "singers" from "vocalists." Think of Louis Armstrong, Chet Baker, Dr. John, Elvis Costello - to me, they are great singers because of despite limited vocal range, they communicate emotion very well through the tone of their voice and how they handle a lyric.


That is funny - the dealer I met with last night stated the same exact thing about the SOTA table. 

I personally really like your distinction between singers and vocalists - makes a lot of sense to me.


----------



## Buzzman

marvnmars said:


> and then there was leonard cohen....maybe the best at bringing the spoken word to emotional fruition...although to me dylan made the most with the least, espacially his last few albums..if you see bob live, do not expect much, his youthful limited range has been replaced by even more limited range, still glad i got to see him live tho..


I agree 100% with this. I saw Leonard live in Vegas last year and he put on a show that would put 20 year olds to shame. The dude was what, 77 years old, and he performed for 3 hours and 15 minutes!


----------



## marvnmars

cohen, never pushes his voice, never tries to make it do things it can not, yet he is somehow able to envoke such emotion in what he does. cowboy junkies can do this as well as many others, but there will only be one cohen...tom waits, well that is why booze and smokes are legal..


----------



## basshead

Buzzman this thread is my goto when idk what to listen to!

An album I really like to listen to right now is Tricycle from Flim & the BB's.

I don't have big setup at home like some of you guys (no room), but i got myself some Senn HD650 and a Burson Audio DS-160DS Amp/USB-DAC and i can enjoy some of it now. Even if with cans there's no big stage, i get tons more information than anything else i own before. Problem now, most of my collection now sound not so good... Adele "Rolling in the deep" is a good example.


----------



## Buzzman

basshead said:


> Buzzman this thread is my goto when idk what to listen to!
> 
> An album I really like to listen to right now is Tricycle from Flim & the BB's.
> 
> I don't have big setup at home like some of you guys (no room), but i got myself some Senn HD650 and a Burson Audio DS-160DS Amp/USB-DAC and i can enjoy some of it now. Even if with cans there's no big stage, i get tons more information than anything else i own before. Problem now, most of my collection now sound not so good... Adele "Rolling in the deep" is a good example.


Basshead, I'm glad you find the thread helpful. "Tricycle" is one of may faves by the way. It's an outstanding recording that will really test your system's dynamic range capabilities.


----------



## chad

Willis, Come Get Some (a little dark, vocals are a TAD bit withheld but after listening to it, they are right)
Shawn Mullins, Eggshells


----------



## bertholomey

I'm bumpin' this thread with an album that I have been playing since I got it a few weeks ago. 

Ryan Bingham, Mescalito

Ryan Bingham and The Dead Horses - Ryan Bingham and The Dead Horses

The guy sounds like he is in his 60's but actually in his 20's....lots of cigs and whiskey. Great guitar sound, but phenomenal lyric (IMHO). I think it is well recorded - listened to several tracks on a reference system, and I was blown away.


----------



## donnieL72

I just purchased the Norah Jones Come Away With Me CD from all of your recommendations. All I can say is WOW. In time, I'm going to get some more of the artists and CDs that you all have recommended. 

Back in the day I used to tune with, showing my age now, 

Hootie and the Blowfish : Cracked Rearview - Awesome vocal harmonics
The Eagles : Hell Freezes Over - Very good live tracks
George Strait : various tracks - Don't laugh, some of them are actually quite good with with integrating midbass with the subs.
Queen : Greatest hits - What can I say, very dynamic.
Alice in Chains : Jar of Flies - If you can get this entire CD to sound good without too much sub, you've got it right.


----------



## oilman

Damn good thread "subscribed" 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ousooner2

Alice In Chains - Alice In Chains (MTV Unplugged Live) 

:laugh:



Also, 

Infected Mushroom - Avratz

Always thought this track was cool, but I played it for the first time in my car today & it's pretty wicked. Lots of separation in it, along with some solid bass lines. Might not be what most think when they hear "reference", but in FLAC/WAV format like I have it's very clear, great depth and separation and some really nice bass lines


----------



## donnieL72

ousooner2 said:


> Alice In Chains - Alice In Chains (MTV Unplugged Live)
> 
> :laugh:


I have that one too. Didn't have it a long time ago though. 

I always loved how Layne Stayley and Jerry Cantrell's voices harmonized with each other.


----------



## Buzzman

Folks, attached is another terrific piece of reading from the current Absolute Sound that fits nicely with the goals of this thread. Enjoy. By the way, I will be posting more recommended CDs soon.


----------



## ISTundra

Buzzman, interesting article there on the evolution of CD transfer technology and its effect on the recording quality.

Not sure I agree with their premise that today's CD's represent the best quality out there. From a tech standpoint -yes, but the loudness wars and recording/mastering engineers that use the tech to slam a recording to the media limits absolutely negate the benefits, IMHO.

One thing the article seems to imply is that the earliest 80's CD's that are clearly direct transfers of the vinyl mastering are of poor recording quality. But many of those early CD's often have fantastic dynamic range, usually better than followup remasters. Granted, those early CD's often suffer from low recording levels and lack of prominent low end emphasis that is prominent today, but they still sound good nonetheless. For example, I just picked up the original 1984 CD issue of Steely Dan's Aja (from the $1 bin at Zia Records!), and the recording of "Josie" on there kicks the crap out of the the other 3 versions I have of that song.

Even the digitally mastered CD's that started to appear in the later 80's are usually of high recording quality & dynamic range, but this article also implies that mastering techniques and hardware wasn't mature enough until the mid 90's to ensure the highest possible recording quality on CD's. I suppose that is the case, and that some remasters of early CD releases are sonically superior. Unfortunately, that advantage seems to be mostly squandered and it's really a hit or miss with remasters these days (mostly miss on anything from 2000 and up, IMHO).

I do agree that not all hi-res recording are not necessarily better. I've bought several hi-res recordings from HDTracks, and while they all tend to exhibit extremely low noise floor and generally good transients -some just don't sound as good as the standard redbook releases. And then there seems to be quite a bit of debate on some of the audiophile forums regarding the provenance of the recording.


----------



## MarkZ

article said:


> If the source is digital, the original 176.4kHz/24-bit source data are downsampled to 44.1kHz/16-bit using today's best conversion algorithm. Note that 176.4kHz is an integer multiple of 44.1kHz, making the conversion less sonically detrimental than if the source were 192kHz.


This doesn't make any sense. The bit depth conversion itself requires interpolation (rounding is a poor way of doing it...). So you don't gain any benefit in it being an integer multiple sampling frequency. Even if there wasn't a bit depth conversion, it's not obvious to me that there's a benefit either. Interpolation is still better than resampling. And higher sampling frequencies aid interpolation.

Not a big deal either way. We're better off first asking whether any increases in precision yield audible results. I've seen mixed reviews.


----------



## THEDUKE

Does anyone have any experience with a good quality recording of Stairway to Heaven? The version I have does not seem to be of very good quality. The copy I have is "Led Zepplin The Best of/Early days Volume 1 1999"


----------



## Buzzman

ISTundra said:


> Not sure I agree with their premise that today's CD's represent the best quality out there. From a tech standpoint -yes, but the loudness wars and recording/mastering engineers that use the tech to slam a recording to the media limits absolutely negate the benefits, IMHO.


Todd, I do agree with you about the negative effects of today’s over-compressed, extremely loud recordings, which seem to comprise the vast majority of records out there. But, when you hear the results of an original analog master tape of great recordings from the mid-‘50s through the early ‘80s transferred to the CD medium using the better technology of today in the hands of an engineer who places a premium on ultimate playback sound quality, there is no debate. For example, Steve Hoffman’s work on DCC and the work he is doing today with Kevin Gray. 



ISTundra said:


> One thing the article seems to imply is that the earliest 80's CD's that are clearly direct transfers of the vinyl mastering are of poor recording quality. But many of those early CD's often have fantastic dynamic range, usually better than followup remasters. Granted, those early CD's often suffer from low recording levels and lack of prominent low end emphasis that is prominent today, but they still sound good nonetheless. For example, I just picked up the original 1984 CD issue of Steely Dan's Aja (from the $1 bin at Zia Records!), and the recording of "Josie" on there kicks the crap out of the the other 3 versions I have of that song.


I don’t think Robert Harley was suggesting that those early’80s CDs were of poor recording quality. Rather, what I took away from his writing was that the sound quality represented on the CD was negatively impacted by the prevalent use of 4th and 5th generation masters that had been EQ’d and compressed for LP pressing purposes, and thus did not reflect what was originally recorded to the studio master. This mis-step was then exacerbated by the use of less than stellar digital transfer and mastering technology. Of course, there are exceptions to this statement as Harley’s indictment appears to be directed at the “major” labels that were placing economic interests above music sound quality interests. The re-mastering work done by labels such as Fantasy, Milestone, Concord and Blue Note during that time were excellent. 

Regarding your $1 copy of Aja, you appear to have a copy of one of the “original” CD reissues, but the 1984 date is interesting because the “original” run of Steely Dan CDs supposedly didn’t occur till 1985. That said, the “original” run were made from “proper” digital masters of the analog studio recordings, whereas subsequent runs were not. These subsequent runs were the subject of the ire of Fagen, Becker and Roger Nichols, as detailed in this eye-opening article which I cited early in this thread: Metal Leg 18 - CD Scandal. So, it’s not surprising that you found this recording of Josie to be superior to the other versions you have. The question is whether you are comparing it to the 1999 re-master which supposedly was personally overseen by Fagen and Becker. I have a copy of that so the next time we get together some comparison listening is in order.


----------



## Buzzman

THEDUKE said:


> Does anyone have any experience with a good quality recording of Stairway to Heaven? The version I have does not seem to be of very good quality. The copy I have is "Led Zepplin The Best of/Early days Volume 1 1999"


Try the 1994 re-master of Led Zeppelin IV:









Let us know what you think.


----------



## ISTundra

Been awhile since there's been an update to this thread, so I'll throw these in.

Dio - Holy Diver, Audio Fidelity Gold








This is one of the best metal albums ever (IMO), and it got even better earlier this year when Audio Fidelity released a newly mastered (by Steve Hoffman) gold CD. This is the 3rd version of this CD I now own, along with the original release & an early 2K remaster. It's easily the best sounding release. The clarity & separation is notably improved, and Ronnie's voice is easily a foot higher in my soundstage than the original master. The bottom end is slightly more pronounced, but I think that has partially to do with the improved separation. All the drum hits stand out more. I know people ain't dropping $20 on CD's these days, but I recommend this one.


The Police - Greatest Hits








This is the 3rd Police greatest hits CD I now own, and imo, the best. It's the most dynamic sounding for sure, and can be had for pretty cheap these days.


Buddy Guy - Stone Crazy








Blues guitar legend, what else do I need to say? Great recording. Damn right I Got The Blues is also a good one.


Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage








I'm not really a jazz afficionado, but learning to appreciate fine jazz recordings that sound great on my system. The trumpet & sax on this one hold me more so than Hancock's piano, but it's a great, well-recorded album all-around.


----------



## jriggs

Taj Mahal, Alabama Shakes, Gary Clark Jr., Olu Dara, Those Darlins, TV on the Radio to name a few...


----------



## Buzzman

jriggs said:


> Taj Mahal, Alabama Shakes, Gary Clark Jr., Olu Dara, Those Darlins, TV on the Radio to name a few...


Jriggs, thanks for joining the thread, but you need to identify specific recordings by the artists you mention that are worthy of "reference" status. I have heard many excellent Taj Mahal recordings, and many bad ones, for example. The Olu Dara recordings I have heard were quite good. I am not familiar with Gary Clark, Jr., Those Darlins, or TV On The Radio. I have tried to focus on pop/rock recordings in this thread because there are so few, in my opinion, that are worthy of "reference quality" status and that's the genre of music to which most people listen. On the other hand, I could easily list hundreds of Jazz, Blues and Classical recordings that meet my standards for "reference quality" classification. Perhaps that's a direction in which this thread could go if there is interest, and some posters have posted Jazz recommendations already. 

With regard to the artists you mention, I must disagree with you about Alabama Shakes. They have only one recording that I know of, "Boys & Girls," and it's a poor recording in my opinion. I heard the band perform on one of the late night shows and was blown away by the lead singer, Brittany Howard. So, like much of the music I own, I ordered the CD anticipating great music, and hoping for a great recording. I was very happy with the music and very disappointed with the sound quality. Brittany is a potential star, with a voice that shows influences from singers such as Etta James, Janis Joplin and Tina Turner. But, the entire recording sounds overly compressed and as though it was made in a enclosed space, with every performer standing right next to each other. Brittany's voice sounds tinny and hard, and hidden in a mid-bass heavy mix. The soundstage is very narrow, and there is no "air" around the various instruments and Brittany's voice. Too bad because her voice and the music this band plays deserved MUCH better.


----------



## trumpet

Buzzman said:


> Actually, this is exactly the kind of music for which this thread was started. I had never heard of this band, but they are obviously highly regarded and have a dedicated fan following. I don’t have a copy of the CD but did listen to excerpts of the tracks, and based on that brief listening session the sound quality didn’t impress me. Enlighten us, please, on that topic.


I missed your reply, but it was in regards to the band Mew. My enthusiasm for the sound quality of Frengers was clouded by my enjoyment of a new-to-me band, but since I wrote that post I don't think I would say that again now. It's a rock album with decent dynamic range. It's fun to listen to on a long drive, but I apologize if anyone bought it expecting brilliant engineering.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, it’s time to bring this thread back to life, so I am back with some more recommendations of recordings of popular music that I think are worthy of being a sound quality reference for you as you evaluate your and other persons’ systems.

*
Tower of Power – “Back To Oakland”:
* Tower of Power is one of my favorite bands of all time. Why? They had the greatest horn section I had ever heard in a band like this. This recording is my favorite of the records they made. Why? The music is terrific, and the recording quality of a high level. This CD is an excellent transfer of the original analog LP recording. It’s old school, with a recording level that I would estimate to be about -3db / -4db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. It’s so analog sounding, and has great dynamic range. The horns are to die for on this recording, and when you hear the burnished brass sound of the cymbals, you know you are listening to a recording that sets a high standard for popular music. 

*
The King’s Singers – “The Beatles Collection”:
* Want to show off your midrange and imaging? You need this record. It’s A capella music at its best. This is a wonderfully balanced recording. There are six vocalists, and each voice is discernible in the mix. The dynamic range of these solo voices is fabulous. They also cover a much broader portion of the music frequencies than you might realize, so it’s a good test for your midbass and treble too. It’s an EMI release, so the recording quality should be expected. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -4db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*
Karl Denson’s Tiny Universe – “The Bridge”:
* Karl Denson is one of my favorite sax players. He has great tone and plays with precision. He doesn’t shy away from experimenting across genres, and this record, which was released in 2002, is an excellent amalgamation of Jazz, R&B and Hip Hop, with lots of toe tapping grooves. If you are a fan of Maceo Parker, Medeski, Martin & Wood or Galactic, you will like this record. The recording is very well balanced, with excellent bass and an open, natural midrange. The voices and instruments are well placed within the soundstage and are easily discernible. The treble is nicely reproduced, with good extension. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. Though it’s on the “louder” side of the scale, it has a warmth to it that makes it quite pleasing.

*
Luther Vandross – “Songs”:
* I LOVE me some Luther! I saw him live several times and his music has served as the backdrop for many nights with the ladies.  This is one recording that surprised me with how good it sounds. Luther’s voice is wonderfully recorded, open and airy, and is not lost in the mix. The bass is very natural sounding, and extended, and overall the sound is very well balanced. My surprise at the sound quality led me to read the liner notes, and low and behold, it was mastered by Bob Ludwig. Now it makes sense. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*
Jose Feliciano – “From The Heart”:
* I saw Jose live at the Music Instrument Museum in Phoenix earlier this year and picked up this CD after his performance. I was very surprised by what I heard when I popped this disc into the CD player because most of his previous recordings just don’t do his voice justice. This is a game changer. Jose’s voice and guitar are recorded with great clarity, and the tonal balance of this recording is excellent. The bass is well extended and detailed, and the soundstage is wide and with good depth. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -6db / -7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. Now, an aside: when you see Jose Feliciano live, you truly realize what a genius this man is. Even at his current age of 67, his guitar playing is extraordinary, and he is blessed with a unique voice and an ability to re-work classics and familiar songs in ways that often make them better than the original in my opinion. This record shows this. And if you have any doubt about what I say, check out this video and you will see what I mean: Billie Jean By Jose Feliciano of Michael Jackson - YouTube

*
The Bird & The Bee – “A Tribute to Daryl Hall & John Oates”:
* As a former musician, I generally deplore keyboard generated instruments. Give me the real thing. But, I got this record because I am a huge Hall & Oates fan, and was curious to see what this duo would do with these great songs. I just love Inara George’s voice. She’s “The Bird.” The keyboard programming is not my cup of tea, but except for track 3 (“Rich Girl”), which contains too many distorted sounds that are not pleasing to hear, this is a really good recording. It’s all about showcasing Inara’s voice, and it does that really well. Her voice sounds like butter and honey, with lots of air around it. The bass is excellent too, with good clarity and extension. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.

*
Ledisi – “Lost & Found”:
* If you listened to just track 1 on this record you would ask what the hell is the Buzzman talking about. He must be losing his hearing. Well, have no fear. Track 1 is a wretched live intro that is on there for no musical or sonic purpose. From an SQ standpoint, you can skip the first 3 tracks in fact. Start with track 4 and you will be pleased with what you hear. Ledisi has an excellent voice, and this recording really showcases it. Her voice is rich and airy, and never gets lost in the mix. The bass is excellent too, and the overall tonal balance is very good. The treble is not as detailed as I would have liked, but if Neo Soul is your thing, you should feel very good popping this into your player as one of your reference discs. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.


----------



## ErinH

Don,
I've been on a Bobby McFerrin kick lately. Yes, the guy who sang "Don't Worry, Be Happy". Though, that is a really cool song... Not just because I'm an 80's fan.  

His music is really, really cool with all sorts of neat effects. He also composes and apparently had made quite a name for himself in musician circles. One track is an improv of him making mouth music and Robin Williams doing spoken word in a music type fashion in front of a live audience. Really cool. 

I'm still new to some of the albums but will post later on some of my favorite tracks so far. 


Thanks for bumping this thread.


----------



## Buzzman

bikinpunk said:


> Don,
> I've been on a Bobby McFerrin kick lately. Yes, the guy who sang "Don't Worry, Be Happy". Though, that is a really cool song... Not just because I'm an 80's fan.
> 
> His music is really, really cool with all sorts of neat effects. He also composes and apparently had made quite a name for himself in musician circles. One track is an improv of him making mouth music and Robin Williams doing spoken word in a music type fashion in front of a live audience. Really cool.
> 
> I'm still new to some of the albums but will post later on some of my favorite tracks so far.
> 
> 
> Thanks for bumping this thread.


Erin, I love Bobby McFerrin man. A true vocal artiste, is how I would describe him. This reaffirms that you are a man of good taste.  If you haven't heard it yet, check out his recording with Yo Yo Ma called "Hush." It's classical music with a pop spin, and it works. His runs on "Flight of the Bumblebee" will amaze you. I haven't listened to it in a long time, but my recollection is that it belongs among the music recommended in this thread.


----------



## bbfoto

Glad to see this thread alive again, too. 

Yeah, Bobby McFerrin is quite talented. Unfortunately, I hear that he was really tormented by the success of "Don't Worry, Be Happy". It pigeon-holed him and his career down-spiraled for several years, which caused him much anxiety and depression. I'll have to check out that "Hush" CD, though. Thanks.

Don, I can't imagine you not already having this, but if not, you may want to check out:

*Mighty Sam McClain - Soul Survivor: The Best of Mighty Sam McClain* - SACD. BLUES. Very well recorded and very Dynamic.

Standout tracks for me are, "Hangin' on the Cross", "When the Hurt is Over", "Where You Been So Long?", "Too Proud", and "Who Made You Cry?".

I already posted this another thread here, but I recently stumbled across a San Diego-based female jazz guitarist and vocalist named Steph Johnson of *The Steph Johnson Trio* and I highly recommend her new CD, *"Nature Girl"*.

Steph gave me permission to share a few songs with you guys from her new album.  You can find them in the link to my SkyDrive below, along with a few other SQ sample tracks.   If you like these, please consider supporting her by buying her CD or making a small donation. She's super chill and a VERY talented artist, as are the drummer and double bassist on these tracks. She's trying to get the word out to as many as possible. It is a new TOP 10 REFERENCE CD in my collection. Go to the link below and look for her cover of "Summertime". Just start with that one, but EVERY track is a SQ gem IMHO.

http://sdrv.ms/ZGr979

^Also check out *"Ziggy Marley - Dragonfly (Live in WBOS Studio)"*, along with "Live in Studio" tracks by Alanis Morissette, Los Lonley Boys, Nelly Furtado, Sarah McLachlan, and others, from the CD, "92.9 WBOS: Live From the Archives 2".

I also highly recommend the tracks by "Morley", Ryan Adams, and "Film Noir - Danger City" by Fay Lovesky...all in the link above.


----------



## Buzzman

bbfoto said:


> Glad to see this thread alive again, too.
> 
> Yeah, Bobby McFerrin is quite talented. I guess he was really tormented by the success of "Don't Worry, Be Happy" because it really pigeon-holed him and his career down-spiraled for several years from his anxiety/depression. I'll have to check out that "Hush" CD, though. Thanks.
> 
> Don, I can't imagine you not already having this, but if not, you may want to check out:
> 
> Mighty Sam McClain - Soul Survivor: The Best of Mighty Sam McClain - SACD. BLUES. Very well recorded and Dynamic.
> 
> Standout tracks for me are, "Hangin' on the Cross", "When the Hurt is Over", "Where You Been So Long?", "Too Proud", and "Who Made You Cry?".
> 
> I already posted this another thread here, but I recently stumbled across a San Diego-based female jazz guitarist and vocalist named Steph Johnson (Steph Johnson Trio) and I highly recommend her new CD, "Nature Girl"..
> 
> Steph gave me permission to share a few songs with you guys from her new album. You can find them in the link to my SkyDrive below, along with some other SQ sample tracks.  If you like these, please try to help support her by buying her CD or make smal donation. She's super chill and a VERY talented artist, as are the drummer and double bassist on these tracks. She's trying to get the word out to as many as possible.
> 
> http://sdrv.ms/ZGr979
> 
> Also check out "Ziggy Marley - Dragonfly (Live in WBOS Studio)", along with "Live in Studio" tracks by Alanis Morissette, Los Lonley Boys, Nelly Furtado, Sarah McLachlan, and others, from the CD, "92.9 Wbos: Live From the Archives 2"...


Wow, until you mentioned it, all these years I had no idea Bobby McFerrin suffered from clinical depression. He continued to record music of a high order, so he did overcome the challenges. Definitely check out the Hush recording.

I am a big Mighty Sam McLain fan. I have the Soul Survivor recording you mentioned, as well as "Give It Up To Love," "Sledgehammer Soul and Down Home Blues," and "Keep On Movin", all of which were released as audiophile recordings by Audioquest (the cable manufacturer) back in the mid '90s. Outstanding music combined with outstanding sound quality. The "Sledgehammer Soul" recording might be my favorite as the music is generally more upbeat and funky, and the best tracks on that recording, including the title track, aren't included in the "Best Of" recording. I have no idea how they determined the "best of," but I highly recommend you get the "Sledgehammer Soul" recording. 

Billy, thanks so much for turning us onto Steph Johnson. I checked out one of the tracks on your SkyDrive and I really like what I heard. The influences of Wes Montgomery and George Benson are easily heard. I will look for more from her.


----------



## bbfoto

Thanks, Don! I'll definitely check out McClain's "Sledgehammer Soul..." and other CDs.  I'm pretty sure I already have the "Give It Up To Love" disc around here somewhere, too.

I also love Bobby's work with Dexter Gordon on the 'Round Midnight soundtrack, and that CD in general. For me, it's kind of up there with Miles' Kind of Blue.

Alberta Hunter - Amtrak Blues 

For something more on the commercial pop side of things, try Florence+The Machine's "MTV Unplugged" CD. And someone else suggested the title track from Kimbra's "Settle Down" EP. Good stuff.

And since you're such a Hall & Oats fan, I'm sure you're familiar with the http://www.livefromdarylshouse.com/ site. 

Oh...Johnny "Guitar" Watson.

Can you recommend any really good FUNK SQ recordings? And I mean REAL funk, son.


----------



## Alrojoca

bbfoto said:


> Can you recommend any really good FUNK SQ recordings? And I mean REAL funk, son.


I guess everybody has a different perception of what real funk is. Tried this yet?
Not a super SQ recording but okay. 
It is called:

The Alien Challenges The Stick,The Alien Succumbs ToThe Macho Intergalactic Funkativity of the funkblasters. 


George Duke - The Alien Challenges The Stick - YouTube


----------



## Buzzman

bbfoto said:


> . . . And since you're such a Hall & Oats fan, I'm sure you're familiar with the
> 
> Live From Daryl's House with Daryl Hall :: Homepage site.


Billy, I am all over this show. I tape every episode on my DVR. So, so good!!



bbfoto said:


> Oh...Johnny "Guitar" Watson.
> Can you recommend any really good FUNK SQ recordings? And I mean REAL funk, son.


I posted this in post # 220 of this thread:

*“Old School Soul Party” (3 CD Compilation): Wow! If you love “old school R&B and Funk, this is a must get compilation. The music is terrific, and the sound quality is as well. Shout Factory did an outstanding job of remastering the 58 tracks on this 3 CD set. As with every compilation there are some weak songs that you will not listen to often. But the bulk of the tracks are real standouts. Throw yourself a party and drop these disks in the changer and no one will be sitting for long. There are some serious “jams” here. This is the set for you if you want to hear funk/R&B dance tunes with real, not synthesized, bass that will give your subwoofer and midbass set-up a real workout. The real surprise for me is how good these tracks sound. The clarity and focus throughout the entire frequency range is excellent. The separation of voices and instruments in the mix is excellent. Overall, the tonal balance is superb, with a really smooth midrange and treble and no overt digital glare. Often times, so much gets lost in the mix with music of this type, but not here. The soundstage is deep and wide too. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -8db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread.* "

Brother, you won't be disappointed with this. There are a lot of Soul/R&B tracks, but the real funkmeisters are well represented here: Parliament, Gap Band, Cameo, Slave, Ohio Players, Rick James etc.

You mentioned Johnny "Guitar" Watson. Shout Factory has remastered just about all of his recordings, with excellent results. Go here: Soul/R&B CD | Shout!Factory


----------



## ErinH

I'm a fan of that show as well. He always has cool guests. In some ways it seems weird sometimes but it is nice to see some of his guests rocking out some Hall & Oates tunes.


----------



## Buzzman

bikinpunk said:


> I'm a fan of that show as well. He always has cool guests. In some ways it seems weird sometimes but it is nice to see some of his guests rocking out some Hall & Oates tunes.


I like how they try to make it so chill, with the band just hanging out, eating and drinking, with a local chef doing the cooking, and then they turn to the music. And you get a music legend one week, and a newcomer the next. The thing that stands out most for me though is Daryl Hall's voice. I think it's better now than it ever was.


----------



## bbfoto

Thanks, Don and Alrojoca!

Guess I should have started reading at the beginning of the thread. :blush:

Ordering these now! 

Yeah, it's VERY cool what Daryl has done. Would be great to see more artists do the same.

Check out the "Jimmy Leans Back" track from my previous SkyDrive link in POST #300. I'm liking this style at the moment and would like to find more like this. Thanks again.


----------



## ashman5

A quick shoutout for the Dynamic Range Database for those trying to decide which version of an album to purchase. Not an end alll/be all for determination of quality, but another tool. Also, you can use their foobar plugin for checking your on catalog for high DR files.

www.dr.loudness-war.info/‎


----------



## Buzzman

ashman5 said:


> A quick shoutout for the Dynamic Range Database for those trying to decide which version of an album to purchase. Not an end alll/be all for determination of quality, but another tool. Also, you can use their foobar plugin for checking your on catalog for high DR files.
> 
> www.dr.loudness-war.info/‎


Ashman, your link isn't working. So here it is for those interested: DR Database. See also Post #9 on page 1 of this thread.


----------



## Ultimateherts

Santana - Supernatural DVDA


----------



## oilman

Buzzman, thanks for the old school 3 package cd suggestion. They came in the mail yesterday but I didn't see them until today. I've been setting in the garage for the last 30 minutes. Looking forward to my drive to the office tomorrow, this is a must have.


----------



## Buzzman

oilman said:


> Buzzman, thanks for the old school 3 package cd suggestion. They came in the mail yesterday but I didn't see them until today. I've been setting in the garage for the last 30 minutes. Looking forward to my drive to the office tomorrow, this is a must have.


Oilman, I'm glad you followed my recommendation, and it appears you confirm what I said about this collection. This 3CD set makes every drive that much better.


----------



## Buzzman

Ultimateherts said:


> Santana - Supernatural DVDA


I wasn't aware they released a DVDA version of this recording, and I did a quick search but couldn't find it. Can you direct me to it? I also noticed they have remastered it, and added bonus tracks. Have you heard this new version? I loved the music on the original, but the recording left a lot to be desired in my book, in terms of SQ, considering the many great Santana releases that preceded it.


----------



## bbfoto

oilman said:


> Buzzman, thanks for the old school 3 package cd suggestion. They came in the mail yesterday but I didn't see them until today. I've been setting in the garage for the last 30 minutes. Looking forward to my drive to the office tomorrow, this is a must have.


x2!

Thanks Don. This is an awesome collection. I already had quite a few of the tracks from their respective albums, but many of these do seem to be slightly better SQ. Great box set art and liner notes, too.  And I got a full-on awesome stamp collection on the package that the seller sent to me, HaHa. Check it out:


----------



## Buzzman

bbfoto said:


> x2!
> 
> Thanks Don. This is an awesome collection. I already had quite a few of the tracks from their respective albums, but many of these do seem to be slightly better SQ. Great box set art and liner notes, too.  And I got a full-on awesome stamp collection on the package that the seller sent to me, HaHa. Check it out:


Geez, cool stamps. Old school to match the music. :laugh: I am glad you are enjoying the music Billy.


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## oilman

Someone recommended Days of the New. This one showed up Wednesday for me, I had some time with this CD both setting in my garage and my long trip to the office. The vocals are super deep and acoustic guitar is spot on. This CD really shows off the hard work we put into our midrange installs.


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## bertholomey

Is that the 1st album? It is amazing. They have a few others that someone mentioned, I looked them up, but never ordered them.


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## oilman

bertholomey said:


> Is that the 1st album? It is amazing. They have a few others that someone mentioned, I looked them up, but never ordered them.


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## octan

I like Anna Stadling new album where she sings Johnny Cash. Good SQ and nice interpretations.
spotify:album:3hUsSXrJzgGNSZnt4rVcwz


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## mr.nice

hallo all,cant i joint to share? heres some my favorite commercial CD reff..hope u enjoyed
Tracy chapman -Tracy chapman,New beginning Albums
*unique Voice,great recording,many great songs..









Rim banna - The mirror of my soul Albums
*golden voice,great recording from the Palestine singers









Rammstein -reise,reise albums
*a dramatical rock band,great recording,even i dont understand the language but i very recommend their album to test ur system hahahaha..i love track 5 "Los"









cheers...


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## Buzzman

mr.nice said:


> hallo all,cant i joint to share? heres some my favorite commercial CD reff..hope u enjoyed
> Tracy chapman -Tracy chapman,New beginning Albums
> *unique Voice,great recording,many great songs..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rim banna - The mirror of my soul Albums
> *golden voice,great recording from the Palestine singers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rammstein -reise,reise albums
> *a dramatical rock band,great recording,even i dont understand the language but i very recommend their album to test ur system hahahaha..i love track 5 "Los"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers...


Mr. Nice, welcome to the thread and thanks for your contributions! I recommended "Tracy Chapman" back in post # 109, so we are in agreement. "New Beginnings" is a great recording also. I had not heard of Rim Banna, so I found her recordings on Amazon.com and listened to some tracks. What a nice surprise. I don't understand a word she is singing, but beautiful voice, and a nice blend of traditional and pop music. The sound quality also appears to be quite good. I plan to purchase this recording. I am not a fan of metal music, but a listen to some of Rammstein's tracks leads me to believe that metal lovers will be very happy with the sound quality. Thanks again.


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## mr.nice

thanks for ur hospitality mr buzzman 
i gonna share another colection of my CD again,hope u never bored...
















i loved every genres of music,have a lots of software help me to adjust my car audio system  

cheers..


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## ADCS-1

mr.nice said:


> Rammstein -reise,reise albums
> *a dramatical rock band,great recording,even i dont understand the language but i very recommend their album to test ur system hahahaha..i love track 5 "Los"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers...


Rammstein is from Austria, singing german language. Funny fact; the singer is an olympic swimming champion.


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## bertholomey

I don't know if this one has been mentioned or not (tough to go through the entire thread to search in a limited time, but even if it has, worth mentioning again). I was watching the Hunger Games last night, and lo and behold, there is Lenny Kravitz. Well, that made me want to pull out the only hard copy cd that I have of his, 'Let Love Rule'. 










This was released in 1989 (my Freshman / Sophomore year of college ), and Lenny produced it himself. He also did lead and back up vocals, lead and back up guitar, bass, drums, and percussion. He had a few artists contribute, but he laid down most of the music on the album. He did all of the music and lyrics except for a couple tracks that Lisa Bonet wrote lyrics. 

So I got in the BRZ and cued it up - Wow! dynamics, balance of instruments / voices, spacious soundstage on some tracks & extremely intimate presentation on other tracks - very well recorded as well. Certainly a disc to pull out of the archive and give a spin. Interestingly, I saw on Amazon that in 2009, they did a 20 yr Anniversary - can anyone here comment on that album - worth spending 20 bucks on?


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## mr.nice

ADCS-1 said:


> Rammstein is from Austria, singing german language. Funny fact; the singer is an olympic swimming champion.


wowwww :laugh:...thx for the info broo,i have 2 albums of rammstein and they give me a good listenning pleasure hahahahaah


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## rawdawg

Oh man, I can't believe bbfoto has Al-Naafiysh as one of his tracks. I've worn out all four copies of my wax going back and forth, front and back on my 1200's. I remember one summer that was all we listened to as we tried nailing down 10-D'ing and beat juggling which were new tech at the time.


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## bbfoto

LOL. Glad it brought back good memories. I'll try to upload a few more old school tracks that are similar. Not really amazing sound quality, but maybe you've spun some Egyptian Lover back in the day, too, haha.

Kinda related, you can probably pick up this BASS compilation CD for cheap..."Digital BASSics" on the Max Music & Entertainment label, Cat.# MXD-2189, along with some DJ Magic Mike and Techmaster P.E.B. bass CDs.

Digital Bassics CD Album

http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Basics-Various-Artists/dp/B00000ILY8

And a decent collection of old school classic Hip-Hop can be had on the MC Mastercuts Hip Hop 3-CD Box Set compilation, Cat.#MCUTCD12 on the Apace Music label.

Amazon.com: Mastercuts Hip Hop: Various Artists: Music

I wouldn't necessarily consider any of these "Reference-Quality" but there are some great tracks from the respective genres mixed in the bunch.


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## bbfoto

Love this woman's voice and it's a pretty good recording as well:

Sia - Some People Have Real Problems










Amazon.com: Some People Have Real Problems: Sia: Music

Sia (Sia Kate Isobelle Furler) was also one of the female vocalists for Zero 7 (check out the popular track, "Destiny"), and I would recommend those CDs as well.


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## bbfoto

Sting - Ten Summoner's Tales 1993 / Full Version - YouTube


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## bbfoto

rawdawg said:


> Oh man, I can't believe bbfoto has Al-Naafiysh as one of his tracks. I've worn out all four copies of my wax going back and forth, front and back on my 1200's. I remember one summer that was all we listened to as we tried nailing down 10-D'ing and beat juggling which were new tech at the time.


James, I came up with a few more old classics beats for you.  

Clear (11) - Cybotron
The Message (03) - Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five
Looking for the Perfect Beat (13) - Afrika Bambaataa & Soulsonic Force
One for the Treble (06) - Davy DMX

And something completely different:

Sweet Jane (10) - Cowboy Junkies - The Trinity Session

Check 'em out http://sdrv.ms/ZGr979


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## Buzzman

I recently moved and have been exploring my CD collection, trying to figure what I wanted to keep, and what I wanted to get rid of. During this process I listened to several recordings that inspired me to revive this thread. For those of you who haven’t read this thread from the beginning, my purpose was to identify recordings of popular music that are worthy of being a sound quality reference for you to you evaluate your and other persons’ systems. If you love Jazz, Classical or Blues (as I do) there is a plethora of high quality recordings dating back to the 1950’s with which to demo and evaluate your systems. However, if you love Rock, Pop, R&B, etc., your options are much fewer. And, most people want to demo their systems with music they enjoy and not be limited to “audiophile” recordings they would never listen to while cruising down the highway. That’s the genesis for this thread. Throughout you will also find numerous articles that will inform the reader about the music recording process and why high quality sound is not the norm in popular music. There is a lot of good reading in this thread, so I hope you take advantage of the opportunity to explore and learn. Here are some new recommendations:

*Vinx – “Rooms In My Fatha’s House”: *

I discovered this recording at a demo station in the Tower Records store on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in 1991. This was Vinx’s debut recording, and the buzz around him was due to the fact he was “discovered” by Sting. His talent is extraordinary. He has a voice that is as smooth as butter, with great range. Think Bobby McFerrin and Al Jarreau combined. He is a terrific percussionist, and he wrote or co-wrote all the songs on this recording. It is a great showcase for him. There are some amazing musicians on this record – Sting, Herbie Hancock, Branford Marsalis, Taj Mahal – and as you listen to it you will be transported to a beach in the Caribbean. 

This record is so analog sounding and has great dynamic range. Vinx’s voice is open and airy and is not lost in the mix. The bass is very natural sounding, and deep. The soundstage is wide and deep, and the variety of percussion instruments used add a lot of complexity that will challenge your system. Unfortunately, the credits do not list the Mastering Engineer. Whoever it is did a great job. I would estimate the “intrinsic loudness” level I have been referencing throughout this thread to be about -5db. So you can really crank this record and listen comfortably. 

*Quincy Jones – “Q’s Jook Joint”: *

Like all of his recordings, this features an All-Star cast of musicians and singers, all performing at an extremely high level. Q really knows how to extract the best from his performers. This recording was released in 1995 as is a product of the best engineers in the business - Bruce Swedien mixed some of the tracks and Bernie Grundman mastered it. It’s beautifully balanced, with tight, deep, well-defined and an open, airy midrange and top end. Voices are rich with nice texture and body, and the instruments are clear and distinct in the mix. It deserved its Grammy for Best Sound Engineering. I guess that the intrinsic loudness level is in the -7 db range. It’s not too loud, and is dynamic as hell. If it matters to you, the liner notes proudly point out that Monster Cable was used everywhere in the recording/mastering process. A remastered version was released in 2005, but I have not heard it. It will be difficult to improve on this, however. 

*The New York Rock and Soul Revue – “Live At The Beacon”: *

This record also features an All-Star cast of musicians and singers – Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Boz Scaggs, Phoebe Snow, among them. It’s a live recording of a concert at the Beacon Theatre on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in the Summer of 1991. And, I was there!! What a night of great music, and this recording captures all the passion of the performers and the excitement of the audience. And it sounds fantastic. It definitely is old school with a recording level reminiscent of what Sheffield was doing. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -3db on the “intrinsic loudness” level scale I have been referencing throughout this thread. You will have to turn up the volume to appreciate it, which is a good thing. The recording is very well balanced, with articulate, well-defined bass and an open, natural midrange. The voices and instruments are well placed within the soundstage and are easily discernible. The treble is airy, with good extension. You wouldn’t expect anything less with Donald Fagen involved and Roger Nichols consulting. 

*Supertramp – The Very Best of Supertramp (Remastered):*

Supertramp is one of my favorite bands of all time and this record really represents their music well. Combine that with terrific sound and you have a winner. Their music is complex, and this recording lets you hear everything going on in the mix. This is a very dynamic recording. The midrange is open and airy, and the vocals are clear and distinct with a natural quality to them. Supertramp’s harmonies are one of their hallmarks, and this recording really shines in this area. The treble has nice sparkle and the bass is very natural sounding, with a warm, detailed quality. Overall, the sound is very well balanced. Unlike many greatest hits compilations, the sound quality on this record is consistent from track to track. I estimate that the recording level would put this album at about -7db on the “intrinsic loudness” level meter I have been referencing throughout this thread. 

*Tina Turner – “Private Dancer” (JVC XRCD):*

This is an incredible, dynamic recording. It just breathes, and all the intricacies of the arrangements come through clearly in a wide, deep soundstage. Tina really shines. Her voice is so powerful, yet clear and natural. Listen to the title track at loud volume and your system WILL be challenged in the chorus section of this track. The bass is tight and super clean, and there is a musicality to it that is rare in pop recordings. The treble is outstanding, with great extension and an airy quality. I estimate that “intrinsic loudness” level of this recording is about -5db. Crank it up and you will have a big smile on your face.


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## minibox

Awesome! Thanks Buzzman!


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## Buzzman

minibox said:


> Awesome! Thanks Buzzman!


You are welcome! I will continue to add more as time permits. Happy listening.


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## Buzzman

Just thought I would give this thread a bump for those of you who haven't been exposed to all of the cool stuff contained here.  I will be adding some more recent discoveries soon.


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## brett.b10

Cant wait to see what you list next


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## Buzzman

brett.b10 said:


> Cant wait to see what you list next


Brett, I am out of town the next few days, but when I get back I will add some real goodies. One of them is what I consider to be the most realistic live recording I have yet heard regardless of music genre.


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## bbfoto

Glad to see this thread revived. 

I don't remember this one being posted, but it is a very well-recorded album that is a great test of your soundstage. This is not a binaural recording, but binaural recording specialist/engineer, Mark A. Jay (immersifi) recommended it to me:

GOMEZ - from the Album "In Our Gun"










Pretty much any track, but these are great:

"Rex Kramer"

"Shot Shot"

"Detroit Swing 66"

"In Our Gun"

Mark has made A LOT of his Live recordings (mostly binaural) available Free to the public as FLAC or 320kbs MP3 files on his SoundCloud page. He's a really nice guy to boot. Check it out at: 

https://soundcloud.com/immersifi

I haven't checked if it's still posted, but he recorded an amazing binaural live set of _The Cowboy Junkies_ that I highly recommend! 

EDIT: Found the Link to the _Cowboy Junkies_ set: 

https://archive.org/details/cj2009-10-05.ku100_at37

Also, his ambient environmental binaural recordings are really cool...Thunderstorms, etc!


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## bbfoto

Been enjoying Maggie Koerner's "Neutral Ground" album lately, too. I might describe her as a mix of Norah Jones, ZZ Ward, & Janis Joplin. You might recognize her from Galactic.

MAGGIE KOERNER

Maggie Koerner - The Difficult Kind (Sheryl Crow) - YouTube

Maggie Koerner "Cayute Woman" :: Sessions En Vida:: - YouTube


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## abusiveDAD

reviving this


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