# My somewhat old school build so far. Thoughts? Suggestions?



## Buickmike (Aug 10, 2012)

This is for my '87 Buick Grand National:










I am going somewhat old school with this since I'll be using crap that I have laying around. I'm out of money on this project, so buying something other than basic supplies is not really an option.

I started mocking up stuff for the audio system. I had grandiose plans at first, but have scaled way back. Here is what I’ve done so far:

My headunit is an Eclipse 5303. It is super clean, but I hear noise from the servo on the CD player in the speakers when changing tracks and that bothers me. I may need to ditch it for something else if I can't fix that.

I’m using an old school Kenwood 5 band EQ / crossover. This is the 2nd gen one with the switchable display.










I had big plans to use my CDT 6.5's and incoporate some kick panels, but I decided to get lazy and just mount my Focal 136K polykevlar 5.25’s in the factory door locations.










I played around with the tweeters in different locations and found that mounting them under the dash in the corners and angled them towards the center. The driver’s side tweeter is a little shrouded, but I think it is acceptable. 



















I used Boston Acoustics plate speakers as rear fill. I just made adapter plates for them out of masonite to make them fit.










Here are the amps that I plan on using:

Orion Xtreme 500.4 and an Orion XTR Pro 1000.










So this is where I'm at a point where I haven't made a final decision yet and need some input.

I temporarily hooked up my Orion Xtreme 500.4 with the front channels on all 4 speakers and bridged the rear channels to test the sub. The rear speakers were way louder, so I unhooked them for the moment. The imaging with the Focals is really impressive. Anything mono sounds like it comes right out of the center of the dash. 

I hooked up my JBL 1000GTi in a 2 cu ft ported box facing backwards. It was LOUD. The sub wasn’t even being pushed that hard. The JBL is tight and clean, but just doesn’t sound very natural in the trunk like it does in a hatchback.

I then tried one RF Audiophile 10” in a 1.2 cu ft box ported at 35hz (this is the 1st gen, so you have to go ported) and it sounded real musical and clean. Looks like I’ll go that route.

--My initial idea was to go isobaric on 2 of these, but porting a .6 cu ft box at 35hz is pretty much impossible with a decent size port. I have enough room to put both of them in if I want.

So then I had an idea about the rear speakers. Instead of putting them on their own channels and turning down the gains, why not make them surround sound? Ever hear of left plus right and left minus extraction? If you take some rear speakers, connect the + terminals normally to the same channels as your front speakers, but tie the – terminals between the speakers together, they only play signals that either come out of one channel or the other. So I tried this, but added about 120 ohms resistance to the ground that connects them to quiet them down. All I can say is wow! This really opened up the soundstage. It does not sound processed or unnatural at all. BTW, you can run a wire from the connected rear speaker – side and connect it to the + terminal of a center channel speaker and connect the – terminal of the center channel speaker to either – speaker terminal on the amp. The center will only play mono signals.

I’m pretty content with this setup, so I’m thinking that I may just use one amp, but I'm still up in the air on the sub. Here are my ptions:
1. Bridge the rear channels to a single RF 10" Audiophile, however that is to many watts (250) for it to handle. I can aways turn the gain down though. I could make
an enclosure on the left rear of the trunk because I want to keep my spare, or put it at the front and face it backwards.

2. Run two 10" audiophiles facing backwards. The amp puts out 67watts RMS to each channel, and these subs are only rated at 75watts RMS, so perfect.

3. Run both amps. Put the Bostons on the rear channels of the 500.4 and run the 1000 (250W @ 4 ohms) o my JBL and just make it stupid loud.

4. Same as above, but go infinite baffle wit the JBL.

Thoughts? I'm kind of leaning towards option 2.


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## Old Skewl (May 30, 2011)

Nice GN! One of my favs. I had a 86 Monte Carlo SS. Brings back memories. I didn't know they offered door speakers though. I thought you were limited to the 3 1/2" dash speakers. If you like the sound of the RFs, stay with them. Try 2 so you run them safe.


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## Buickmike (Aug 10, 2012)

Old Skewl said:


> Nice GN! One of my favs. I had a 86 Monte Carlo SS. Brings back memories. I didn't know they offered door speakers though. I thought you were limited to the 3 1/2" dash speakers. If you like the sound of the RFs, stay with them. Try 2 so you run them safe.


The Buick Regal T types and GN's had an optional "Concert Sound II" system available which added 5.25" mids in the doors. It had 3.5" in the dash and the 4X10's as well.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

JBL infinite baffle. I might be a little biased though. Are you concerned about the weight at all? It seems like everything I put in the GN sounded good. The TL is another story.


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## Buickmike (Aug 10, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> JBL infinite baffle. I might be a little biased though. Are you concerned about the weight at all? It seems like everything I put in the GN sounded good. The TL is another story.


I'm not converned with weight at all. I already have a T top car that is fully optioned and 2 layers of sound deadening throughout. I still have run mid 11's at 118 with a 1.9 60ft (street tires) and shifting into 4th because I ran out of gear. That was before I put on new DR's, made suspension improvements, dialed in the tune, and have WOT TCC lockup. Considering all the tracks are closed around here and I'm not going to put a cage in it, adding weight is a good way to slow me down lol.

As far as the JBL in infinite baffle, I really want to try it before I go that route. Maybe I can get some scrap wood from the nearby construction site and mock something up to get an idea.

I see you have the GNX that Heath Elmer built as your avatar. That was a sweet car. I'm a big fan of Heath's work. He actually repained my GN a few months ago.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> It seems like everything I put in the GN sounded good. The TL is another story.


Ahh, it makes sense now... Maybe that is why Richard Clark likes Grand Nationals so much.


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

I think your off to a great start with the equipment choices, I like the Orion amps they are just "old school" enough to count. I love the eclipse 5303 (I had a 5306 I believe). I actually picked up an old school Eclipse 4311 cassette deck and ESD-430 changer yesterday, I love old school eclipse. I have a single Eclipse 4x10 for a center channel that I can offer you for really cheap to help your build if your interested. I was doing an old Chevy truck build but the truck is gone.

I also have some old school alpine head units and changers if you end up wanting to change out that 5303. I might be able to do some trades depending on what you have.

The Buick GNs and the GMC typhoons are my favorite vehicles, I am so excited to see how this goes.


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## Buickmike (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. My dash top has no spot for a center speaker, so the 4x10 won't work for me. If I ever to a center, I would have to move my oil and temp gauges out from the center console and put something there. I have a Coustic xm5e, so I can always use the center channel processor on that. 

Let me know what Alpine head units you have. I had a 7903 years ago and to this day I still remember how good it sounded. 

I'd also like to find a good 1/2 din parametric eq.

My original plan was not to use the Orion's. I bought them a few weeks ago from a friend. It was too good of a deal to pass up. I have older amps laying around. The original plan was to use my early 90's era Lanzar Opti Drive 100 and 50. I also have a Xtant 404m and a Hifonics Europa VIII.


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

I would go with the lanzar and or the Europa. Great very strong amps. That car was always just so easy to make sound good so many options. I would not worry as much about over powering the sub as if your are responsible. The headroom is important and many subs can handle short transients many times there max ratings. I have heard many old school subs were underrated to match their underrated amps for competition. Could be a rumor but it is true that that the thermal ratings are typically based on constant power.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Buickmike said:


> I'm not converned with weight at all. I already have a T top car that is fully optioned and 2 layers of sound deadening throughout. I still have run mid 11's at 118 with a 1.9 60ft (street tires) and shifting into 4th because I ran out of gear. That was before I put on new DR's, made suspension improvements, dialed in the tune, and have WOT TCC lockup. Considering all the tracks are closed around here and I'm not going to put a cage in it, adding weight is a good way to slow me down lol.
> 
> As far as the JBL in infinite baffle, I really want to try it before I go that route. Maybe I can get some scrap wood from the nearby construction site and mock something up to get an idea.
> 
> I see you have the GNX that Heath Elmer built as your avatar. That was a sweet car. I'm a big fan of Heath's work. He actually repained my GN a few months ago.


Back in the old days I thought I was fooling the tech guys by making 1/8 passes and shutting down in an attempt to get my launch perfect before making a full pass. I got warned twice and on my 3rd weekend I got my elusive 10 second pass. Fine tuning the fueling and timing up top on the street since I couldn't do it at the track was "fun" to say the least. As I'm sure you know even on drag radials on the street the car is still going to spin near triple digit speeds which makes the tuning near useless. 

Heath's GNX is one of my favorites and it's the closest picture I could find to my GN before the bodyshop stripped it down and left town. The GNX flares, the old school FP guage on the hood, and the Simmons rims all of which are gone now. I still have the "fast" car but that was my 10 second street car that will never be the same. I won't sell it because I bought it in highschool in '94 so it sits on the side of the house under a cover now. I'll never have the time to get it going again and I can get another GN for what it would cost me to get that one back on the road. Luckily I got the ok from the boss to buy another so hopefully within a month or two I'll be back on the street. In fact, I'm getting ready to put my whole audio system for sale to soften the blow since whatever I buy has to be in cash. 

About the weight though, as I lightened mine, it did become more reliable, especially the second gear band. I have one of Bruce Toelle's "billet" transmissions but I still had to freshen it every year or two depending on whether or not it saw much track use (read traction lol).


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## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

Very Nice Ride


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## Buickmike (Aug 10, 2012)

Looks like I neglected this thread. Here is an update:

I ended up going with the RF subs because they sounded more natural in the trunk. The JBL has found its happy place in the hatch of my CRX. It seriously pounds even though I'm only powering it with 2 channels of the Europa.

Here is the box I built. Yes, my techniques are "old school" too. It turned out good considering I don't have a table saw. I just used a really long level and clamped it in place to make straight cuts with my circular saw. I managed to get 1.2 cubic feet per side. I added fiber fill mainly because it can remove any unwanted resonances. I know it really doesn't make a lick of difference otherwise.



















Amp and subs loaded and ready for testing:










Sub box fits well. I listened to it with this amp and it was adequate. I was thinking that it would be a shame to only use one of my Orions and I didn't want to take up the real estate needed to house the 1000, so I put my Xtant 404M in its place. The result is that the 404M is noticeably cleaner than the Orion, so I am going with the Xtant. 










Starting to work on the carpet.










I carpeted the box.










So then I added carpet to the wheel wells and used some heavy board from the local upholstery supply shop to make panels for the sides. I just got in the zone on that part and forgot to take pics. Anyway, here is the finished product. I think it turned out decent for an amateur DIY project. Sorry for the blurry cell phone pics.




























I might make the cover I made to hide the amp wiring smaller and get some grills for the subs, but that's it.


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## sqchris (May 27, 2013)

Nice car, nice old school setup. Let me know if you decided to part with your car


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## 49konvict (Mar 18, 2013)

Damn would love to see that 1000 in the build. I have the same amp but I also font wanna give up the room to fit that tank in my tiny trunk. Build looks great.


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

That Europa is no slouch.
Very nice old school build. I like it The trunk looks good. Old school trick just build a frame/cover across the rear of the box frame around the amp then staple wire mesh across the frame and carpet over for a hidden clean protected finish. Unless you want to see the grills.you could even just have it Velcro in place easily to the box. Simple and clean. You should post pics on the I've seen the collections let's see the builds thread.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## Buickmike (Aug 10, 2012)

sqchris said:


> Nice car, nice old school setup. Let me know if you decided to part with your car


Thanks. Not looking to part with it for a looong time since I have over 6 years of blood, sweat, tears, and $$$$$ into the restoration. 



49konvict said:


> Damn would love to see that 1000 in the build. I have the same amp but I also font wanna give up the room to fit that tank in my tiny trunk. Build looks great.


I will save it for another build. Maybe my '59 LeSabre.



SilkySlim said:


> That Europa is no slouch.
> Very nice old school build. I like it The trunk looks good. Old school trick just build a frame/cover across the rear of the box frame around the amp then staple wire mesh across the frame and carpet over for a hidden clean protected finish. Unless you want to see the grills.you could even just have it Velcro in place easily to the box. Simple and clean. You should post pics on the I've seen the collections let's see the builds thread.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks for the idea. I may try that out.


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