# linear power discussion



## ChrisB

JOMA1

JOMA2

I feel sorry for whoever wins these auctions because who knows what has been done to them


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## Oliver

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Why replace power and ground wires ?:surprised:


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## Notloudenuf

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Nice cursive writing on the end caps


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## circa40

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

JOMA has nice penmanship


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## SteveLPfreak

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I wouldn't pay a nickel for his amps. eBay's got enough scammers!


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## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



circa40 said:


> JOMA has nice penmanship


I am surprised he didn't charge extra for the one of a kind label on that one amp:laugh:


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Anyone know what I can expect out of a 5002 power wise running 8ohms mono? Wondering if it's more or less than a 2.2HV.


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## rhinodog00

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I have purchased from joma a couple of times. Never had a problem and the amps were exactly what he said they were. Definitely was not a great deal $$ wise, but the price was fair and he happened to have what I was looking for at the time. Just my 2 pennies.


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## SQ_MGB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

A stock 5002 is stronger than a stock 2.2HV at 4 or 8 ohms. 5002 is 250x2, 2.2HV is 125x2 at 4 ohm stereo. Modified to run 8 ohms a 5002 can be insane. 

I'm not sure which is stronger, my 3.2HV's which are 8ohm only now, or my 5002 which can do both 8 and 4ohm. My MGB doesn't have enough battery, alternator, or weight carrying capacity to run them. Maybe John can chime in???


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## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Ray emailed me a while back stating that I could get at least 850 watts RMS out of a modded 5002 @ 8 ohms and expect 1600 to 1700 watts of peak power. Depending on which revision you have will determine how much power the 8 ohm high voltage mod will get you. 

As for 6Appeal.... He has spent major money modifying his 5002s and I would be willing to guess that he is getting close to 2000 watts RMS out of his!


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## SteveLPfreak

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> I have purchased from joma a couple of times. Never had a problem and the amps were exactly what he said they were. Definitely was not a great deal $$ wise, but the price was fair and he happened to have what I was looking for at the time. Just my 2 pennies.


You were lucky. My experience was much different. Dishonest auction description just to try to make a few extra bucks.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Ray emailed me a while back stating that I could get at least 850 watts RMS out of a modded 5002 @ 8 ohms and expect 1600 to 1700 watts of peak power. Depending on which revision you have will determine how much power the 8 ohm high voltage mod will get you.
> 
> As for 6Appeal.... He has spent major money modifying his 5002s and I would be willing to guess that he is getting close to 2000 watts RMS out of his!


Your power numbers are right for your level of mods. Pretty much just about the peak for the "normal" mods, provided you can give the amp enough battery.

My 5002's have "special" mods that don't get done, except for a select few and many $$$'s. Two of my modded 5002's (mono only) will do over 1100 watts @ 8ohm and peak over 2200. Another is modded for stereo (cannot run mono) that will do 350 wpc @ 8 ohm and peak over 600 wpc. Yes, these numbers have been verified with power testing done by Ray. Can I get that much out of them in a car? Not without more battery and alternator than I currently have. I figure I'm getting about 2/3's of the peak power and that's with only 1 modded 5002 in a GN (200 amp alt, 2 1100 cca batteries).



SQMGB said:


> A stock 5002 is stronger than a stock 2.2HV at 4 or 8 ohms. 5002 is 250x2, 2.2HV is 125x2 at 4 ohm stereo. Modified to run 8 ohms a 5002 can be insane.
> 
> I'm not sure which is stronger, my 3.2HV's which are 8ohm only now, or my 5002 which can do both 8 and 4ohm. My MGB doesn't have enough battery, alternator, or weight carrying capacity to run them. Maybe John can chime in???


Rich, Your 3.2's are pretty much the same as my 5002's. But, you get there with less amperage draw because they are more efficient. Still, one of those has the ability to burn up all the wiring in your truck. The MG would just melt into a pool of molten metal.:laugh:

bass_lover1 - Also, mods for the 2.2HV are SQ only, no more power without redesigning the power supply and board.
John


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I'm not worried about modded power jerks, but now you have me wanting to do so.

I'm concerned about stock power levels. My 2.2HV is stock, and as far as I know the 5002 is stock as well. My plan is to move the 5002 to sub duty, and sell cry my 2.2HV. That is of course if the 5002 will give me the same power bridged running 8ohms as the 2.2HV does.


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## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> I'm not worried about modded power jerks, but now you have me wanting to do so.
> 
> I'm concerned about stock power levels. My 2.2HV is stock, and as far as I know the 5002 is stock as well. My plan is to move the 5002 to sub duty, and sell cry my 2.2HV. That is of course if the 5002 will give me the same power bridged running 8ohms as the 2.2HV does.


You are going to get at least your 4 ohm stereo power @ 8 ohms mono, probably more! I plan on running an unmodified 5002 to my JL Audio 13w6v2.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Stock 2.2 vs stock 5002, run mono will be pretty close. The 2.2 will draw less current due to it's more efficient power supply at the same power level (40 vs 60). But, when push comes to shove, a modded 5002 will walk all over a 2.2. Keep them both. Run the 5002 on sub and the 2.2 on highs. If using passive crossovers, be ready to rebuild them with better components. Don't ask me how I know.
John


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I thought it would be close, but wasn't sure. Going by the ratings on LP's site, the 5002 does 250 per channel stereo, but about 40 watts less bridged than the 2.2 is rated for.

I want to keep the 2.2 and run it on my mid ranges, but I'm trying to cut back on my stereo value, really I'm just trying to pay off some credit cards, so the 2.2HV will be for sale for what I paid for it. I get the 5002 tomorrow, and as long as it's functional, the listing said it was but I just want to make sure, I'll post the 2.2 shortly there after.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I might be down for another 2.2. Color? Price? PM me.
John


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## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

The 2.2 will put out way more than 125 x 2, WAY more. I really wish I could get one tested. I would say it's well over 200w x 2.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

It's black, but nothing is set in stone until the 5002 is tested and functional.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> The 2.2 will put out way more than 125 x 2, WAY more. I really wish I could get one tested. I would say it's well over 200w x 2.


Since the 2.2HV grew out of the 2502, it would make sense that it would be similar in the power rating. But the 2.2 is stronger than the 2502, IMHO. I agree that it's pretty close to the 5002 (in stock form). I might have to take one of my 2.2's to Ray for a little power test to get some actual numbers.
John


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



6APPEAL said:


> Since the 2.2HV grew out of the 2502, it would make sense that it would be similar in the power rating. But the 2.2 is stronger than the 2502, IMHO. I agree that it's pretty close to the 5002 (in stock form). I might have to take one of my 2.2's to Ray for a little power test to get some actual numbers.
> John


DOoooOOoooo it.


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## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

YES! YES! Please! I would love to see actual testing figures on a 2.2.


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## tristan20

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

a 2.2HV is definately underrated, but as is all LP amps, tons of headroom and specs mean nothing.

got a few 5002s, 3002s to get rid of if anyone is interested.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

There is another 5002IQ listed on eBay right now.


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## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I would be scared to see what it goes for though! Besides being dusty, it appears to be BNIB


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

tristan20 - E-mail me a list of what you've got and what you want for it. I know some folks looking. Pics wouldn't hurt.

That 5002IQ looks like the NIB that Ray had not too long ago. Seems to be some long forgotten and un-used LP getting out in the market. I don't know where Ray keeps finding them, and he ain't talking.:laugh:

I'll have to make some time to get over to Ray's with a 2.2 for a little testing.
John


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## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I would be scared to see what it goes for though! Besides being dusty, it appears to be BNIB


Already over $300 and 8 days left


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Hmmm, the two JOMA 5002IQs are no longer listed....wonder what happened.


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## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Hmmm, the two JOMA 5002IQs are no longer listed....wonder what happened.


He probably sold them outside of eGay which happens a lot with Linear Power amplifiers.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

True, I'd say 6 out of the last 8 LP amps listed on the bay were ended early.


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## zatchmo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I have a stash of them I was considering putting on eBay as well, but I haven't convinced myself which ones to part with yet. I have 2 2.2s and an 8002, all in new condition. I also have a 5002, but that has been modded and was my first amp, so I have to keep that one. I just can't convince myself to go through the hassle of a bigger alternator, more batteries, etc. etc. etc.


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## silverdiesel2574

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

ANyone got a 4753iq.  I want one bad, for my last project...


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## silverdiesel2574

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

If you cant convince yourself I'll take it my diesels got 4 batteries and dual alternators.. I've got no problem... hehehehe


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## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Hmmm, the two JOMA 5002IQs are no longer listed....wonder what happened.


After looking at the "cool" writing on the side of those things, he probably ran out of ink:laugh:


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



silverdiesel2574 said:


> ANyone got a 4753iq.  I want one bad, for my last project...


I can't even remember the last time I saw one of those for sale. The 4 channel LP amps are pretty rare.


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## silverdiesel2574

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I originally had 2. One in my Cobra1993 and the other in my truck. The one in the truck went to a repair place near Studio City and they "LOST IT" I call BS... But that was a long time ago and the one in the cobra was stolen one night. I'm always looking for 1 at least.


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## Blazemore

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Z06VETTE PIMP said:


> Already over $300 and 8 days left


Now up to $600 :shocked2:

Seriously are these amps really worth the cost or is this just the collector aspect of it all?

Me putting on a flame suit right now..:worried:


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## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

In that condition it's worth that price, but mainly for collectors. It's a great amp in superb condition. In mediorce condition they would be worth around $500, but I've seen some crazy prices lately. Evidently I sold my LPs at the one time when prices were low. 

LP has a reputation for a reason. They've been the holy grail of no-frills amplification for 25 years.


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



silverdiesel2574 said:


> ANyone got a 4753iq.  I want one bad, for my last project...


That's Ray's least favorite 4ch LP. apparently it was the one that was sent back the most with issues. I have a modded 4503iq and modded dpsq50... you'll never get your hands on em


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## SteveLPfreak

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kappa546 said:


> That's Ray's least favorite 4ch LP. apparently it was the one that was sent back the most with issues. I have a modded 4503iq and modded dpsq50... you'll never get your hands on em


Andre - I think those (2) custom modded 1002's you have put back-to-back would be unbeatable for its footprint.


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



SteveLPfreak said:


> Andre - I think those (2) custom modded 1002's you have put back-to-back would be unbeatable for its footprint.


I KNOW! i've been trying to find a heatsink for them but no luck. trust me, i've had wet dreams about that


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## silverdiesel2574

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Thanks Kappa, I know its hard to find those its just a nostalgia/collection thing for me.
I have a Plum Crazy 4503iq almost new I power it once and its been put away ever since. 
That dpsq50 is one me and ray talked about last week. I'd love to get my hands on one...


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



silverdiesel2574 said:


> Thanks Kappa, I know its hard to find those its just a nostalgia/collection thing for me.
> I have a Plum Crazy 4503iq almost new I power it once and its been put away ever since.
> That dpsq50 is one me and ray talked about last week. I'd love to get my hands on one...


well get that thing modded and put it to good use... great amp. yea it took me about 3 years to find the q50... those are probably the most rare LP's.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Indeed, the Q50 is rare....... to some people....... I horde them. I know where a couple of more are, but I ain't tellin'.:laugh:
John


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

yea, they were made when ordered for only a short time and now people don't let got of them... makes them more rare!


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## thehatedguy

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

My black 4.1s went to Japan...no one here in the states wanted to pay what they were worth.

No, I do have a nice black modded 3.2 that I want to sell. She's doing about 350-375 wpc at 4 ohms stereo. No 2 ohm operation...and I don't think it would like to be run mono. $650 for it.


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## zatchmo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



thehatedguy said:


> My black 4.1s went to Japan...no one here in the states wanted to pay what they were worth.
> 
> No, I do have a nice black modded 3.2 that I want to sell. She's doing about 350-375 wpc at 4 ohms stereo. No 2 ohm operation...and I don't think it would like to be run mono. $650 for it.


Don't say that! I have an 8002SW that needs to go. I'm pretty confident I'll be able to get rid of my 2.2s...


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Dude, why is it when I don't have the money to finance LP amps, everyone tries to clear house, and when I do have the money you guys sit on em.


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## zatchmo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Dude, why is it when I don't have the money to finance LP amps, everyone tries to clear house, and when I do have the money you guys sit on em.


I've had mine for a lot of years. I've just decided that there are a few things in my life right now that need the attention more than my stereo. I'll post them up as soon as I dig them out and snap some pics.


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## whitet

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Reading all this about LP makes me wish I kept mine 

I bought them years ago, I had (2) 2.2's, (2) 3.2's and (2) 4.1's.

zatchmo I will e-mail you.. if you are interested in selling any of them..

All I have left is a LP key chain I got with my order


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## thehatedguy

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I have a little girl coming.

Plus I am keeping some of my LPs.

Have a modded 3.2 and maybe a black 2.2 that needs a new home. But I am really tired of people emailing me for pictures and then low balling me on the prices that are already a good deal.


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## rhinodog00

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Look at this F_ _ king deal Linear Power 502 HV Amp - eBay (item 110376673020 end time Apr-13-09 11:47:08 PDT)

I hate looking at the completed listings because of stuff like this.


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> Look at this F_ _ king deal Linear Power 502 HV Amp - eBay (item 110376673020 end time Apr-13-09 11:47:08 PDT)
> 
> I hate looking at the completed listings because of stuff like this.


ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?? HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS? ARRGGGHH!!!!!


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## azngotskills

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

wow...that is a steal

LP prices/interest has gone up alot lately


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## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kappa546 said:


> ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?? HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS? ARRGGGHH!!!!!


You could really make the seller's day by emailing him and saying that you would have paid $800 for it.

P.S. OMFG I hate eBay now!!! When did they start hiding the bidder's transactions? You could figure out who the buyer was by the number of transactions they had even if the ID was hidden. Now you can't even do that. If JOMA got this amp or that crackhead pawn dealer in FL, I will **** bricks.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kappa546 said:


> ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?? HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS? ARRGGGHH!!!!!


OMG!!!!!!!!!:surprised: That's what I get for not looking!:mean:
John


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## SQ_MGB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

You and me both John....Had I seen this, I would have been all over it. I guess it's for the best....we both know I don't need any more "options" on building systems.


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## thehatedguy

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

****, if you would pay $800 for that amp, I'd make your day and sell you my modded 3.2 for $700.

That amp wouldn't bring $800 today. I couldn't get $800 for a mint 4.1 here in the states...with a fan shroud.



Mooble said:


> You could really make the seller's day by emailing him and saying that you would have paid $800 for it.
> 
> P.S. OMFG I hate eBay now!!! When did they start hiding the bidder's transactions? You could figure out who the buyer was by the number of transactions they had even if the ID was hidden. Now you can't even do that. If JOMA got this amp or that crackhead pawn dealer in FL, I will **** bricks.


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## thehatedguy

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Interest has...but prices haven't. Well atleast for me it hasn't. I get the "would you take $600 for that 4.1 including a fan shroud, shipping, and paypal fees" type of people. Just a bunch of broke dicks who have wasted too much of my time trying to beat me down on an already good deal...and there have been a few.



azngotskills said:


> wow...that is a steal
> 
> LP prices/interest has gone up alot lately


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## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



thehatedguy said:


> ****, if you would pay $800 for that amp, I'd make your day and sell you my modded 3.2 for $700.
> 
> That amp wouldn't bring $800 today. I couldn't get $800 for a mint 4.1 here in the states...with a fan shroud.


No, I wouldn't pay that, but it would be excessively cruel to tell the seller that.

I don't know what is happening with prices. There is some weird crap going on out there. Your 4.1 with a shroud should have gotten 1100. People are still buying amps. Case in point is that $610 bid for a DPS500 with scratches and dents. Why someone would pay $610 for that and not a modded 3.2 is insane.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> You could really make the seller's day by emailing him and saying that you would have paid $800 for it.
> 
> P.S. OMFG I hate eBay now!!! When did they start hiding the bidder's transactions? You could figure out who the buyer was by the number of transactions they had even if the ID was hidden. Now you can't even do that. If JOMA got this amp or that crackhead pawn dealer in FL, I will **** bricks.



Which crackhead dealer would that be?

I know there was a guy listing 2 8002SWs on there for like 850 each, and he was in FL. Same guy?


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## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Which crackhead dealer would that be?
> 
> I know there was a guy listing 2 8002SWs on there for like 850 each, and he was in FL. Same guy?


It's the guy who wins auctions (not great BIN deals mind you) and then tries to sell the item for $300 more. If you are the highest bidder, it stands to reason that no one is going to bid much more than you the next time you try to sell it. He was selling scratched and dented 2.2s for $800. Funny, he never got any buyers. He wanted $1,400 for 8002s.


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## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> No, I wouldn't pay that, but it would be excessively cruel to tell the seller that.
> 
> I don't know what is happening with prices. There is some weird crap going on out there. Your 4.1 with a shroud should have gotten 1100. People are still buying amps. Case in point is that $610 bid for a DPS500 with scratches and dents. Why someone would pay $610 for that and not a modded 3.2 is insane.


I would have paid 1100 for that 4.1


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## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> Look at this F_ _ king deal Linear Power 502 HV Amp - eBay (item 110376673020 end time Apr-13-09 11:47:08 PDT)
> 
> I hate looking at the completed listings because of stuff like this.


Hahaha,that amp was probably bought 20 seconds after he posted it


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



thehatedguy said:


> No, I do have a nice black modded 3.2 that I want to sell. She's doing about 350-375 wpc at 4 ohms stereo. No 2 ohm operation...and I don't think it would like to be run mono. $650 for it.


Yea, i gawked at the great price and just felt depressed that I still couldn't swing it. I definitely would if i could sell some of the stuff i have laying around. payment plan?


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## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

There is a pretty rough 4.1 on ebay now with a BIN of 1000


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

just saw that.


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## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



thehatedguy said:


> I have a little girl coming.


Congrats. Little girls have a way of wrapping Daddy's around their little fingers.:laugh: Ask me how I know (x2)! PM'ed ya.
John


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



> The amp is in very good condition. It has minor scratches and minor chips in the heat sinks.


I wouldn't exactly call that "very good" condition. First thing I noticed about it was how beat up the heat sink was. For it to get that many chips/dings, looks like it wasn't very well taken care of.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> It's the guy who wins auctions (not great BIN deals mind you) and then tries to sell the item for $300 more. If you are the highest bidder, it stands to reason that no one is going to bid much more than you the next time you try to sell it. He was selling scratched and dented 2.2s for $800. Funny, he never got any buyers. He wanted $1,400 for 8002s.


Heck, Ray doesn't even charge that much for 8002s, and I'm sure the ones he lists are in damn near pristine condition.


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## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Z06VETTE PIMP said:


> There is a pretty rough 4.1 on ebay now with a BIN of 1000


offered 800 he refused... probably a good thing heh.

seller said hes going to take it to an audio shop to get it tested.... 

thehatedguy, pm'd ya yesterday let me know.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Wait, so he's listing it for 1000, and doesn't even know if it works?!?!

I feel sorry for the sucker that buys that thing.


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## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kilumenati said:


> offered 800 he refused... probably a good thing heh.
> 
> seller said hes going to take it to an audio shop to get it tested....
> 
> thehatedguy, pm'd ya yesterday let me know.


He didn't bite on the 800?What a idiot.....


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## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

yep... probably a good thing he didn't accept my offer.

started at 750 and went from there, since someone here was offering an 8002sw for 800(mind you its probably in much better condition then this guys 4.1)
I was like in that condition at least theres some money I can still put into it to make it valueable, ie. mods and refurb the chassis.

Also, there was no indication in his listing that it worked or not... I just assumed it did... guess I'll have to be a bit more careful next time and ask before I get taken for my money...

guess I'll be poppin the LP cherry another time  :laugh:


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kilumenati said:


> yep... probably a good thing he didn't accept my offer.
> 
> started at 750 and went from there, since someone here was offering an 8002sw for 800(mind you its probably in much better condition then this guys 4.1)
> I was like in that condition at least theres some money I can still put into it to make it valueable, ie. mods and refurb the chassis.
> 
> guess I'll be poppin the LP cherry another time  :laugh:



I know it isn't a lot of power in it's current state, but keep an eye on that 652 on eBay right now, last one sold for like 50 bucks. Mods are another 125 IIRC, I'd bet you'd see around 50-60 wpc from that amp once modded.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Damn, there's a huge influx of LP listings on eBay. How often do you see 2 5002IQs, and 1 5002 at the same time?


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## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

The mint 5002IQ is up to $760!!


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## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

i didnt get near that much for the MINT 5002iq or the rougher but modded 5002iq i sold. geeeeeeez


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## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I've already gotten a few PM's about my 1502iq that I haven't been selling in months. 

Apparently the demand has gone up just a little bit. Might be artificial, or might be due to this forum.


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## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Too bad I didn't have a use for that one, would paired nicely with it's white siblings.


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Too bad I didn't have a use for that one, would paired nicely with it's white siblings.


Actually, the one listed was my red one. I eventually found a match for it, and then it was no longer for sale. I'm funny like that. Hence the reason I was offering you the white 1502iq. At this point though, I think i'll keep what I have left.

Basically, i'll have your 2.2hv, my 1502iq's one white, one red, and a red 2202iq. 

Not too shabby, but I'd like to have something larger for sub duty. I'd like to run two DIYMA 12's to their potential.


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

WTF, that 5002iq is up to $1000? The seller has 0 feedback. the pics are dark, and hard to tell what condition it's in. 

I guess all you have to do to be a successfull scammer at this point is to start a new ebay account and list an LP amp...


Something is fishy as all hell there. Schill bidding FTW?


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

How bad are the pops and noises from the non-IQ models?


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> WTF, that 5002iq is up to $1000? The seller has 0 feedback. the pics are dark, and hard to tell what condition it's in.
> 
> I guess all you have to do to be a successfull scammer at this point is to start a new ebay account and list an LP amp...
> 
> 
> Something is fishy as all hell there. Schill bidding FTW?



There has got to be some shadyness going on there. That's absurd pricing.

These LP prices keep going nuts like this and I'll sell all of mine!!


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Actually, the one listed was my red one. I eventually found a match for it, and then it was no longer for sale. I'm funny like that. Hence the reason I was offering you the white 1502iq. At this point though, I think i'll keep what I have left.
> 
> Basically, i'll have your 2.2hv, my 1502iq's one white, one red, and a red 2202iq.
> 
> Not too shabby, but I'd like to have something larger for sub duty. I'd like to run two DIYMA 12's to their potential.



Gotcha, wondered what happened to that one. If I didn't have two 2.2HVs I'd probably snag that 1502 off you, but then again I don't think I'd sell a 2.2 if I only had one 

Try running the DIYMAs on the 2.2HV, I bet you'll be surprised what that little thing can do.


----------



## kappa546

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

WOW. and I thought i was down to my core set of LP's i'd never sell.... hmm if this keeps up i might have to sell some. what goes first? Modified and mint (seriously, not 1 scratch) DPS500 in it's original box? That might catch a pretty penny.... Dang actually, i might just do that.


----------



## rhinodog00

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

This is typical of LP's on ebay. One person gets good bids on his lp auction and all of the sudden they come out of the woodwork. This to shall pass.


----------



## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> This is typical of LP's on ebay. One person gets good bids on his lp auction and all of the sudden they come out of the woodwork. This to shall pass.


Exactly the same thing happened with a/d/s/ PQ10 and PH15 amps. Someone went crackhead crazy and bought one for $500 when they normally sell for around $200. Within a week there were 10 for sale on eBay and everyone wanted $500 BIN. Of course they didn't sell and the prices went back down.


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

More LP goodness.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/57963-fs-linear-power-audiocontrol.html
Seems the current economy and recent LP price spikes are causing a few more LP's to show up.
John


----------



## zatchmo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



6APPEAL said:


> More LP goodness.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/57963-fs-linear-power-audiocontrol.html
> Seems the current economy and recent LP price spikes are causing a few more LP's to show up.
> John


Those are mine. It's actually only cause I now own a car with a tiny alternator that can't run this stuff and I'm building a house. This growing up thing sucks!!

I'm keeping my TIPS modded 5002 though. That is still my personal best SQ amp.


----------



## briansz

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> How bad are the pops and noises from the non-IQ models?


There is a definite turn-on thump from my 2202. Qualify 'bad'. Blow your sub bad? No. Distinctly audible? Yes.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> No, I wouldn't pay that, but it would be excessively cruel to tell the seller that.
> 
> I don't know what is happening with prices. There is some weird crap going on out there. Your 4.1 with a shroud should have gotten 1100. People are still buying amps. Case in point is that $610 bid for a DPS500 with scratches and dents. Why someone would pay $610 for that and not a modded 3.2 is insane.


We commonly sell 4.1HVS' for 1400.00+ when we have them, 8002SW's for 1200 and sold a brand new 5002IQ in the original box still sealed for 1175.00 two weeks ago, sold 2 5002IQ's out of their box used in mint condition for 900.00 each a week ago. Of course we are the factory and stand behind every sell and everything is checked to meet or exceed original specifications. We also only sell product that is near mint or mint condition cosmetically and electrically.


----------



## SteveLPfreak

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Oh, hell, yes. Ray's in the house! Good to see you here.


----------



## baggedbirds

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Hey look at that - Ray is here. Sweet !


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I would be scared to see what it goes for though! Besides being dusty, it appears to be BNIB


No this amp is not the one we sold here NIB, it went to a guy in Biloxi Ms. for 1175.00 with mods added


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

hi guys


----------



## zatchmo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Ray, I have a buddy with a pair of 3.2s that have an issue. I am pretty sure it was the last pair made. I'll PM you...


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I think you guys were right about one LP getting a high bid, now a bunch are up there.

Three more were added in the last 3 hours.


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

About time you got here Ray. I'll drop by the shop Friday or Monday.
John


----------



## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

eBay is starting to get out of hand:laugh:


----------



## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

wow thats a surprise that nick was still available all these years... interesting stuff...

welcome to DIYMA Ray, you'll fit right in ...

Oh, and that 4.1hvs that was a bit dinged up etc going for 1000 BIN wasn't working ... lucked out big time.

Roshan


----------



## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kilumenati said:


> wow thats a surprise that nick was still available all these years... interesting stuff...
> 
> welcome to DIYMA Ray, you'll fit right in ...
> 
> Oh, and that 4.1hvs that was a bit dinged up etc going for 1000 BIN wasn't working ... lucked out big time.
> 
> Roshan


He sure took it off fast yesterday:laugh:


----------



## rhinodog00

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Anyone notice that the 5002 that was going for $1000.00 plus is back down to $630.00.

I am glad to see you here Ray. Quite a few LP enthusiasts here.


----------



## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Z06VETTE PIMP said:


> He sure took it off fast yesterday:laugh:


ye, because he was honest with me and didn't accept my best offer of 800.
I emailed him saying take it down...




rhinodog00 said:


> Anyone notice that the 5002 that was going for $1000.00 plus is back down to $630.00.
> 
> I am glad to see you here Ray. Quite a few LP enthusiasts here.


That is odd... even the latest one from Ohio was around 600 last night and now its 510...


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> Anyone notice that the 5002 that was going for $1000.00 plus is back down to $630.00.
> 
> I am glad to see you here Ray. Quite a few LP enthusiasts here.


Hmmmm... a bid retraction from someone with zero feedback. I am so surprised...


----------



## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> Anyone notice that the 5002 that was going for $1000.00 plus is back down to $630.00.
> 
> I am glad to see you here Ray. Quite a few LP enthusiasts here.


WOW


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Does anyone know why the 1502iq makes 285x1 while the 2202iq only makes 250x1?


----------



## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Does anyone know why the 1502iq makes 285x1 while the 2202iq only makes 250x1?


I would be willing to bet that a 2202iq is just under rated more

I measured one of my unmodified 1502IQs at 110 watts RMS per channel just prior to clipping. Never had a 2202IQ to play with


----------



## SQ_MGB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I know my 1752's that are modded make 554 x1 at 4 ohms at clipping....not sure what they did stock, I never had Ray check. I think he told me he could get between 500-600 watts out of a 1502, but he had to really tweak it and longevity would suffer. Ray, want to chime in? Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I would be willing to bet that a 2202iq is just under rated more
> 
> I measured one of my unmodified 1502IQs at 110 watts RMS per channel just prior to clipping. Never had a 2202IQ to play with


A lot of these specs were accumulated from past paperwork and what was available, some tests were done at different times with different equipment, some old tests were done at 12.5 volts of supply voltage and some were done at 13.8 volts. I can tell you that the 250 watt figure for the 2202IQ was a typo, the 1752/2202/2202IQ (all the same power supply and output design) IQ having a inverted channel and a mute relay is the only difference, all make right at 385 watts RMS bridged.

Since all of these products and tests were produced and tested over a period of almost 30 years there are a few discripances, but it is not meant ot be on purpose.


----------



## GS3

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Linear Power 5002IQ Excellent Condition - eBay (item 140313138016 end time Apr-18-09 11:14:06 PDT)

wow! nice crack smoking schill bidding prices, seller with zero feedback. lol

not even a new 800sw would cost that much.


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Damn, MSRP was less than that when it came out.


----------



## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

thought I'd share this one since he's sold it anyway... 

kenwood cd player and amp

35 bucks for a deck and broken 2202IQ


----------



## GS3

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kilumenati said:


> thought I'd share this one since he's sold it anyway...
> 
> kenwood cd player and amp
> 
> 35 bucks for a deck and broken 2202IQ


 it's funny how people sometimes have things backward, in his case, the kenwood cd player is worthless item.


----------



## Z06VETTE PIMP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



rhinodog00 said:


> Anyone notice that the 5002 that was going for $1000.00 plus is back down to $630.00.
> 
> I am glad to see you here Ray. Quite a few LP enthusiasts here.


Now it's over 1200


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kilumenati said:


> thought I'd share this one since he's sold it anyway...
> 
> kenwood cd player and amp
> 
> 35 bucks for a deck and broken 2202IQ


Too bad the only LP find on Craigslist in FL is some guy wanting 1500 for an 8002SW, too pricey for me.


----------



## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Too bad the only LP find on Craigslist in FL is some guy wanting 1500 for an 8002SW, too pricey for me.


I think that's the pawn broker guy! I thought he was in the Lee Co area. $1,500 for an 8002, yeah that sounds like him.


----------



## Oliver

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

When it has to be the best !!! 


T.I.P.S.

Technical Information Product Services, Inc.
3455 Lanell Lane
Pearl, MS USA 39208

(601) 932-8477
Fax: (601) 939-0265

Please contact TIPS at [email protected]

The ONLY Factory Authorized Repair
Center for Linear Power Products


I know MANY people who have used them and the guys that work there and answer the phone are great. ask them... they might just do what you need!


glad to help


----------



## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



a$$hole said:


> When it has to be the best !!!
> 
> 
> T.I.P.S.
> 
> Technical Information Product Services, Inc.
> 3455 Lanell Lane
> Pearl, MS USA 39208
> 
> (601) 932-8477
> Fax: (601) 939-0265
> 
> Please contact TIPS at [email protected]
> 
> The ONLY Factory Authorized Repair
> Center for Linear Power Products
> 
> 
> I know MANY people who have used them and the guys that work there and answer the phone are great. ask them... they might just do what you need!
> 
> 
> glad to help


Just whatever you do, don't ask Ray about a Class D amp or an Optima Yellow Top battery. Don't say I didn't warn you:laugh:


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> I think that's the pawn broker guy! I thought he was in the Lee Co area. $1,500 for an 8002, yeah that sounds like him.



Pretty sure it is. I'm almost certain he had a 30day eBay add for the 8002SW. I guess on eBay, they're only worth 850, but off eBay their value almost doubled.


----------



## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Pretty sure it is. I'm almost certain he had a 30day eBay add for the 8002SW. I guess on eBay, they're only worth 850, but off eBay their value almost doubled.


I came close to giving him $900 for one but then he removed them from eBay.


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I came close to giving him $900 for one but then he removed them from eBay.


Yea, he had them up there for a quite a while, and they never sold, I think he had 2 of em.

If I were to list something like that on eBay, I know they're rare, but I would at least do a bit of research to see what the going price is for em.

I bet if they were listed for 800 OBO they would have sold in a few days.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

If this is the pawn guy, I sold him 3 8002SW's with modifications and he bought a 4th one from somewhere else and had me go thru it and modify it too. 1500.00 would not be too bad a price for any of those amps, they are in MINT condition cosmetically when I sold them to him.


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> If this is the pawn guy, I sold him 3 8002SW's with modifications and he bought a 4th one from somewhere else and had me go thru it and modify it too. 1500.00 would not be too bad a price for any of those amps, they are in MINT condition cosmetically when I sold them to him.


Yea that's him, or that's at least what his Craig's list ad says.


----------



## Ineedsq

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Hey people whats up, Im new here n I saw this post about linear power. Maybe you can answer this for me. What is the real world power output of a 302iq, I have one I want to power a pair of mbquarts in the doors of a mustang gt, will the amp drive the quarts with enough power. Thanks for any advise.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

The 302IQ was rated at 15 watts minimum continous RMS per channel, the amp will make closer to 30 by 2 RMS.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Ineedsq said:


> Hey people whats up, Im new here n I saw this post about linear power. Maybe you can answer this for me. What is the real world power output of a 302iq, I have one I want to power a pair of mbquarts in the doors of a mustang gt, will the amp drive the quarts with enough power. Thanks for any advise.


15W x2 RMS 0.100%


----------



## |Tch0rT|

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> The 302IQ was rated at 15 watts minimum continous RMS per channel, the amp will make closer to 30 by 2 RMS.


Are the old 1501's under rated as well?

Ryan


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

All Linear Power amps are under rated by most standards, the newer amps are more powerful than the older amps, the 3001, 1501, 901, 601, 401 were older designs; they have been replaced by the 3002,1502IQ, 952/952IQ, 652/652I/652IQ, 402/452/452I/452IQ. Then these have been superceeded, in order, by the 2502IQ/2.2HV, LP150/DPS500, LP100/DPS350, LP50/DPS200. 

Linear Power amps are rated by what Linear Power termed "minimum continous RMS" power rating, this is above a normal RMS rating. This test is performed at only 12.5 volts of battery power (not 13.8 or 14.4 that most manufacturers use to get the power figure up) the amps are tested running an extremely low continious test tone into the amp's inputs (most manufacturers use a higher frequency test tone, such as 1000 hz) running the amp into the extremely low frequency loads the amp down heavier than normal music or higher frequency test tones. Both channels are driven simultaniously also (a lot of manufacturers will drive only one channel at a time so as not to load the power supply down trying to drive both channels to achieve inflated power figures). Then the power is determined using the RMS power formula at a very low THD (distortion figure) Most manufactures rate at higher distortion levels than we do, most equipment currently is rated at up to 1.0 percent, we typically rate distortion at 0.08-0.004 percent. This insures the customer (even under the worst installation) should get far more than the amp is rated for.

Linear Power does not like to state Max or Peak power figures at higher distortion levels, as is the current practice in car audio. These "modern" testing procudures are more loosely governed and can represent more unrealistic inflated power output from the product, with no regards to sound quality. We only state Max or Peak figures as a reference to compare these units to other products rated under these newer "modern" power calculations.


----------



## |Tch0rT|

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Thanks. I know the 1501's are rated for 75 watts rms x 2 so what kind of real world power can I except out of one? I picked one up off of Craigslist for $25 about a year ago (I still don't even know if it works). It's a little beat up. Do you have any of the heat sink/case pieces (especially the silver plates) left over?

Ryan


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I'll give ya $50 + shipping now..


----------



## briansz

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



|Tch0rT| said:


> I picked one up off of Craigslist for $25 about a year ago



Nice find. I bought my 2202 with another very small LP amp (may have been a 302) and a JBL GT122 sub at an auction for $30. I sold the sub for $30 and the 302 for $60, then kept the 2202 that I was 'paid' $60 to buy.

I'll be down on the corner with a cardboard sign before I sell that amp.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



briansz said:


> Nice find. I bought my 2202 with another very small LP amp (may have been a 302) and a JBL GT122 sub at an auction for $30. I sold the sub for $30 and the 302 for $60, then kept the 2202 that I was 'paid' $60 to buy.
> 
> I'll be down on the corner with a cardboard sign before I sell that amp.



Great deals !

Just last week a member out of state emailed about a guy that had a Kenwood cd player and LP 2202 IQ for sale for $30 in my state ( about 1.5 hours away )
Notice *LINER* POWER he spelled wrong so any ways I emailed the guy and he had just sold it to someone but the amp was a "Plum Crazy" color and he said heatsink was almost 9.5/10 oh well I tried.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



|Tch0rT| said:


> Thanks. I know the 1501's are rated for 75 watts rms x 2 so what kind of real world power can I except out of one? I picked one up off of Craigslist for $25 about a year ago (I still don't even know if it works). It's a little beat up. Do you have any of the heat sink/case pieces (especially the silver plates) left over?
> 
> Ryan


I'm not sure what power figure you want for the "real world power" as you stated; we don't like stating anything but minimum continious RMS, but if you want a average RMS figure, we will say around 90-95 per channel. If you want "pie in the sky" figures like these other current amps you can say 150 watts per channel, even more of you want a distortion figure of 1.0 percent. My point is that you can pull a lot of rabbits out of a hat to get all sorts of figures. It has been called in engineering circles for years "ILS ratings", as in "If Lightning Strikes". Most offshore equipment follows this "ILS" rating.


----------



## |Tch0rT|

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> I'm not sure what power figure you want for the "real world power" as you stated; we don't like stating anything but minimum continious RMS, but if you want a average RMS figure, we will say around 90-95 per channel. If you want "pie in the sky" figures like these other current amps you can say 150 watts per channel, even more of you want a distortion figure of 1.0 percent. My point is that you can pull a lot of rabbits out of a hat to get all sorts of figures. It has been called in engineering circles for years "ILS ratings", as in "If Lightning Strikes". Most offshore equipment follows this "ILS" rating.


Ok, I understand the inflatted watt specs of other amp makers. I plan on using the 1501 as a mid amp in an active set tup and was just wondering how much it would put out since someone asked something similar for another amp...



> The 302IQ was rated at 15 watts minimum continous RMS per channel, the amp will make closer to 30 by 2 RMS.


Anyway do you have any left over silver face plates or heat sinks for a 1501?

Ryan


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

No, sorry, I don't have any end plates for the 1501, its only like 30 years old. Still a great amp, but cosmetic parts are few and far between. I do have power connectors and speaker harnesses. Still can reapir them internally too.


----------



## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



|Tch0rT| said:


> Anyway do you have any left over silver face plates or heat sinks for a 1501?


How handy are you? It's reasonably easy to make a face plate. You just need a piece of brushed aluminum that you can buy from hobby or hardware stores. Bend it between two 2x4s and then cut it with a Dremel or other grinding tool. If you want to silk screen it, make a stensil with the LP logo and paint it on there. It will look original. I was going to do this with one of mine, but I ended up selling it.

I still have this one though.


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> How handy are you? It's reasonably easy to make a face plate. You just need a piece of brushed aluminum that you can buy from hobby or hardware stores. Bend it between two 2x4s and then cut it with a Dremel or other grinding tool. If you want to silk screen it, make a stensil with the LP logo and paint it on there.


Or just write Linear Power in cursive with a Sharpie like JOMA does.


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



imjustjason said:


> Or just write Linear Power in cursive with a Sharpie like JOMA does.


Great! I just spit coffee on my monitor!!!!!:laugh::laugh:
John


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



6APPEAL said:


> Great! I just spit coffee on my monitor!!!!!:laugh::laugh:
> John


Sorry!! :blush: I couldn't pass... it was right there, I had to say it. :blush:


----------



## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Here it is, the JOMA special:


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Mooble said:


> Here it is, the JOMA special:


Karma!!! Now I have Coke on my computer screen!! :laugh::laugh:


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

The backwards R must mean that JOMA is a Korn fan. lol


----------



## briansz

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> The backwards R must mean that JOMA is a Korn fan. lol


Either that or Toys 'R' Us.


----------



## Blazemore

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*










All fixed ready to sell :laugh:


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

You guys are crazy

BTW - has anyone found some LP amps at Pawn shops for sale? I know craigslist has some every once in a while but of those guys know what they are worth usually.


----------



## Blazemore

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



DAT said:


> BTW - has anyone found some LP amps at Pawn shops for sale?


I found a couple but the Pawn shop owner knew what they were worth. At the time I was far into SS to really care.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



DAT said:


> You guys are crazy
> 
> BTW - has anyone found some LP amps at Pawn shops for sale? I know craigslist has some every once in a while but of those guys know what they are worth usually.


A friend of mine bought those two 5002IQ's off e-bay, one hand painted yellow, and the other plum crazy--the one with that nasty hand written gold endplate (the endplate you pictured on the end of this 901). 

He brought them in to get checked, repaired and cleaned up. So far we are stripping and powdercoating the heatsinks, replacing the endplates, and making corrrections to the internals too. One amp had the polarity reversed without a power fuse inline (I know no fuse was inline because it would blow before damaging the amp) for so long it started overheating and trying to melt the reverse polarity diode off the board. Now this is quite a feat when the reverse polarity diode used in these amps is a 300 amp Ford ambulance alternator diode which is stamped thru the circuit board before being soldered to the board. (Linear Power has NEVER replaced one of these parts)


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> A friend of mine bought those two 5002IQ's off e-bay, one hand painted yellow, and the other plum crazy--the one with that nasty hand written gold endplate (the endplate you pictured on the end of this 901).


Ray, those are the two amps that this very thread were started about. Go to the first post, select JOMA 1 and JOMA 2 to see them. They were for sale on ebay by the notorious / famous justonemoreamp. Most of the stuff he sells he bought the week before for half of what he is asking and claims that they all came out of his personal collection.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Where does this JOMA get all of his amps? I bought some old school Orion from him before and they worked great but traded them to another guy for more goodies


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Read up a couple posts.

Usually, he buys broken amps on eBay for dirt cheap, using a different name. Then he attempts to fix them him self, and sells them for a ridiculous price increase. 

He always claims that the amps are "from his personal collection." His personal collection must span a warehouse because this has been going on for 4 years at least.


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

He sits on the refresh button in the amplifiers section on eBay... someone puts up a PG MS2125 for $150 Buy It Now and he pounces on it... then a week later sells it for $400+... that's how he gets a lot of them.

The original 1moreamp called him an eBay prospector once. That fits.

Where he gets the rest I have no idea. He claims he bought out the stock of a shop that closed.


----------



## azngotskills

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Deal for LP fans??? 

OLD SCHOOL LINEAR POWER 2202IQ 2202 IQ - eBay (item 170321920665 end time Apr-25-09 22:58:20 PDT)


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



azngotskills said:


> Deal for LP fans???
> 
> OLD SCHOOL LINEAR POWER 2202IQ 2202 IQ - eBay (item 170321920665 end time Apr-25-09 22:58:20 PDT)


I was watching that but not for me too much looks wonderful but *sold as is *throw me , you'd have to drop another $250 for the mods + fixing the problem if any.

$300 for the amp plus $150 for mods if works 100% is great if that color is what you desire. 

Me I like the "plum Crazy " ones


----------



## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

This was another 5002 that JOMA sold. Notice anything "odd" about the internals?


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Nice, very nice 


gotta love that guy for trying. 

anyone have a 2202IQ for sale?


----------



## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Don't forget the shill bidding. That's another JOMA trait. To make matters worse, he will sell an item out from under you if you are bidding on it. He pulls many of his auctions early so he won't need to pay ebay fees.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

here is another LP, one of the models I want but not sure about this- look how the rca's were fixed big cut on the end and such.. 



> The unit was sold a while back and item was *lost and then found by the shipper*. I am reselling it again. It's a old school Linear Power amplifer, think I can see its a 2202, not sure if thats all but there is no model numbers anywhere else. The amplifier was working when I picked it up in a trade. The power wires were replaced with monster cable 4 guage and the *rca's were replaced by someone else*. The unit spears to work perfeclty no issues what so ever.


*LP What?*


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



DAT said:


> I was watching that but not for me too much looks wonderful but *sold as is *throw me , you'd have to drop another $250 for the mods + fixing the problem if any.
> 
> $300 for the amp plus $150 for mods if works 100% is great if that color is what you desire.
> 
> Me I like the "plum Crazy " ones


This amps works, BUT DOES NOT work right. It is working only on half the power supply, the guy called me and had bought it from someone else with a resistor melted off the board, he sent pics and I told him what was wrong, now he is selling it without telling the FULL story. One leg of the oscillator transformer has broken off the board, this has caused one of the resistors which goes out to both halves of the power supply transistors to over heat and fall off the board, since the regulator circuit's feedback windings go thru this transformer and depend on the signal from each half of the switching transistors to feed thru those resistors, the regulator can only see half of the power supply transistors with this resistor removed from the circuit and can not properly regulate the power supply, resulting with half the transistors sitting idle while the other are working, effectively generating only half the power. It is a easy fix for me, but he would not send it in. Now he is selling it off to someone that will end up trying to use it as is and NOT get everything the amp can do for them and WILL eventually damage the amp further. His pictures also show this revesion amp could benefit from several engineering upgrades done to late production models that this one did not have.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



DAT said:


> here is another LP, one of the models I want but not sure about this- look how the rca's were fixed big cut on the end and such..
> 
> 
> 
> *LP What?*


I can get this one back to PRIME condition with a little electronic work and a new buttplate and endplate


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> This amps works, BUT DOES NOT work right. It is working only on half the power supply, the guy called me and had bought it from someone else with a resistor melted off the board, he sent pics and I told him what was wrong, now he is selling it without telling the FULL story. One leg of the oscillator transformer has broken off the board, this has caused one of the resistors which goes out to both halves of the power supply transistors to over heat and fall off the board, since the regulator circuit's feedback windings go thru this transformer and depend on the signal from each half of the switching transistors to feed thru those resistors, the regulator can only see half of the power supply transistors with this resistor removed from the circuit and can not properly regulate the power supply, resulting with half the transistors sitting idle while the other are working, effectively generating only half the power. It is a easy fix for me, but he would not send it in. Now he is selling it off to someone that will end up trying to use it as is and NOT get everything the amp can do for them and WILL eventually damage the amp further. His pictures also show this revesion amp could benefit from several engineering upgrades done to late production models that this one did not have.


I see that he either read this post or someone cornered him about it, his description on the auction has been revised with more information. Any way who ever gets it, I can get it back to correct condition. I can't believe he is going to ask 250.00 for a broken amp, even if it plays, but I see he has NO bids either.


----------



## KP

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> I can get this one back to PRIME condition with a little electronic work and a new buttplate and endplate


How much $$?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



AcuraTLSQ said:


> How much $$?


The usual flat rate repair is 150.00, I would still do the endplate and correct the wiring and install gold rcas, as well as, any other minor repair and full test and specs for that rate. It would be put back to proper electrical and cosmetic condition for the connection side of the endlate. I can't believe anyone would hack a hole thru the endplate to run bigger wires like that. That just looked crappy, as well as, if that insulation is cut thru by the rough metal its gonna short to the case and arc and spark, damaging something. We would also include any engineering upgrades that were used after production of this amp,which the 2202/202IQ had a few changes during their production runs.


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I dont know about yall. But am sending my FIVE 2502IQ's to be modded by the one and only Robert Rayfield. He'll also be fixing two of my 2202IQ's. I can't wait to get them shipped off, and having him modded and test them will be more than an honor.

I wonder if he could sign each amps after modds. LOL.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I have a beautiful "Plum Crazy" 2202IQ I might be letting go, or send to Ray for the fix and Mods.

I believe it has a bad channel in it, plays perfect on one channel.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Jeanious2009 said:


> I dont know about yall. But am sending my FIVE 2502IQ's to be modded by the one and only Robert Rayfield. He'll also be fixing two of my 2202IQ's. I can't wait to get them shipped off, and having him modded and test them will be more than an honor.
> 
> I wonder if he could sign each amps after mods. LOL.




Post some pics so we can see them in the Ear Candy Colors


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

The two 2202's am sending Ray, I just got and seller said they were working. I showed Ray the internal pic and he did notice they both need to be repaired. I paid 200.00 each and now have to pay even more to get them fixed, so if I was to buy another 2202 thats not working, I wouldnt pay anymore than 100.00-150.00. But there might be someone out there willing to pay more.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Best part about that is he usually cuts you a deal if the amp needs to be fixed and modded at the same time...


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Makes sense though. I wonder how much more to the total he would add to modd those two 2202's since he will be already fixing them.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



Jeanious2009 said:


> Makes sense though. I wonder how much more to the total he would add to modd those two 2202's since he will be already fixing them.


If you have a unit modified at the same time it is repaired we reduce the repair price to one half of the normal flat rate. In the case of a 2202IQ the normal flat rate is 150.00 and the modification price is 150.00, but if done at the same time you only pay 225.00 plus return shipping for both the repair and the modifcation. Thats a savings of 75.00.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

The mods ot the 1752/2202/2202IQ makes a really nice amp, we have a lot of people that have had them done. It basicly make them as strong as a 3002, and improves the sound quality.


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Gotta love that deal... LP Rawks!


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

8002 models

If you really want them they are modified but high $$ as usual


----------



## Blazemore

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



DAT said:


> 8002 models
> 
> If you really want them they are modified but high $$ as usual


Craiglist never has anything worth a damn in my area 

Anyone know what the series of events that lead to not manufacturing the amps anymore?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

THE KOREAN JUNK AMPS BEING SOLD AT DIRT CHEAP PRICES, killed all the Amercican manufacturers,(only Kicker and Rockford are still American owned and run companies left under original ownership, they design in house but most everything is made offshore) It is hard to sell a high quality, high end amp, made in the USA (and I mean MADE in the USA) rated at TRUE RMS power ratings to the market which is 85 percent 16-24 year olds. They DONT care about Sound Quality, and dont realize the beneftis of Reliability. They want MAximum power for Minimum dollars. 

True car audiophiles are not the majority of the market, theya re a small fraction of the market. The Koreans stepped in and sold their junk and over-inflated the power figures and sold them for nothing. It is hard to sell a amp rated at 1000 watts RMS for 1000.00-1200.00 if some else is selling a piece of junk for 399.00 and saying it is 1000 watts. Of course most consumers don't understand Max, Peak, RMS power figures, distortion ratings or anything else that makes an amp a good amp or a bad amp. 

All of your American amp companies folded up, Soundstream, Lanzar, Hifonics, Crunch, US Amps, PPI, Orion to name most of them. All of these companies are owned by other companies now, the majority of the names being owned by DEI (Directed Electronics) and all of them made overseas now. Linear Power produced product and outlived most of these brands in their original forms.

Linear Power is not gone, we are still here and we are gearing up to produce product in volume again once the economy improves. We are producing limited product now.


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> THE KOREAN JUNK AMPS BEING SOLD AT DIRT CHEAP PRICES, killed all the Amercican manufacturers,(only Kicker and Rockford are still American owned and run companies left under original ownership, they design in house but most everything is made offshore) It is hard to sell a high quality, high end amp, made in the USA (and I mean MADE in the USA) rated at TRUE RMS power ratings to the market which is 85 percent 16-24 year olds. They DONT care about Sound Quality, and dont realize the beneftis of Reliability. They want MAximum power for Minimum dollars.
> 
> True car audiophiles are not the majority of the market, theya re a small fraction of the market. The Koreans stepped in and sold their junk and over-inflated the power figures and sold them for nothing. It is hard to sell a amp rated at 1000 watts RMS for 1000.00-1200.00 if some else is selling a piece of junk for 399.00 and saying it is 1000 watts. Of course most consumers don't understand Max, Peak, RMS power figures, distortion ratings or anything else that makes an amp a good amp or a bad amp.
> 
> All of your American amp companies folded up, Soundstream, Lanzar, Hifonics, Crunch, US Amps, PPI, Orion to name most of them. All of these companies are owned by other companies now, the majority of the names being owned by DEI (Directed Electronics) and all of them made overseas now. Linear Power produced product and outlived most of these brands in their original forms.
> 
> Linear Power is not gone, we are still here and we are gearing up to produce product in volume again once the economy improves. We are producing limited product now.


Even worse are the chinese buildhouses. Korean's at least have some semblance of quality control, the chinese have poor SQ, and poor quality control to boot. 

I think Zed and Tru are the only american builders left. 

Can't wait to see some new LP product... that would get just about everyone on this forum excited.


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Can't wait to see some new LP product... that would get just about everyone on this forum excited.


I've seen some of it!
John


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

It be crazy to see who will own the first LP made after their stop. I would want to get my hands on it.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Even worse are the chinese buildhouses. Korean's at least have some semblance of quality control, the chinese have poor SQ, and poor quality control to boot.
> 
> I think Zed and Tru are the only american builders left.
> 
> Can't wait to see some new LP product... that would get just about everyone on this forum excited.


We have already shipped a few 2.2HV's, XO-3, and PA-2 Audiopath Enhancers


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> We have already shipped a few 2.2HV's, XO-3, and PA-2 Audiopath Enhancers


I don't want this to sound wrong, but are these brand new from the ground up? or are they rebuilt classics with leftover sinks? If the former is true, are they identical internally to the old ones?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> I don't want this to sound wrong, but are these brand new from the ground up? or are they rebuilt classics with leftover sinks? If the former is true, are they identical internally to the old ones?


We have sold refurbished units, repaired units, and modified uniits for years, but these are units we have put together here. We had some blank 2.2HV boards left over and stuffed them from scratch. The two 2.2HV's we sold even are ina new color. 

I guess it would be kinda like when Carol Shelby found in one of his warehouses a few years back a whole group of 1965 Shelby Cobra frames already serial numbers but never built. These cars were assembled from the ground up and sold as NEW 1965 model cars in like the late 1990's. 

The XO-3 and PA-2 Audiopaths are completely NEW units metal cases, screen printing, circuit boards and all. The endplates on the 2.2HV are the new design endplates unlike any endplate used before. See attachment.

But we are making the product with same old way with QUALITY, not a name stamped on a offshore product!


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I love that Color, when might we buy some of the new stuff you guys are building?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

We are very limited on supplies and heatsinks currently, we are waiting for the economy to improve to really start producing equipment on a larger format. Currently we will be building what we can as we can, jsut keep checking the website for any changes on the product for sale. The first products we will be producing in mass will be the XO-3 and PA-2Audiopath. Here isthe new artwork on those units. See attachmentsin next post


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

I wish my 5002 and 3002 endplates were the same color with that silkscreening. My 5002 is gold and the 3002 is silver.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> We are very limited on supplies and heatsinks currently, we are waiting for the economy to improve to really start producing equipment on a larger format. Currently we will be building what we can as we can, jsut keep checking the website for any changes on the product for sale. The first products we will be producing in mass will be the XO-3 and PA-2Audiopath. Here isthe new artwork on those units. See attachmentsin next post



Here are teh pics of the units


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> Here are teh pics of the units


Ok, I don't know how it did that, but that is the wrong pic, I uploaded two pics of the XO-3 andPA-2. Let me try again.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> Ok, I don't know how it did that, but that is the wrong pic, I uploaded two pics of the XO-3 andPA-2. Let me try again.


Trying again


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> Trying again


and here is the XO-3


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



DAT said:


> I love that Color, when might we buy some of the new stuff you guys are building?


The color is a light grey color, it is much lighter than the Titanium (used to be called gun metal grey) which we have used for years.


----------



## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Anyone agree that it might be time to start new thread or move this to one of the other forums?

To much good info wasted in the hot deals forum for what?


----------



## shadowfactory

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

This is amazing news, NEW LPs are coming!  I for one plan to make an all LP system in the not too distant future, and this lines up perfectly with my plans. Keep us posted on any and all updates!

One other question, will the new LPs come pre-modded at all, like with the upgrades you can get at TIPS?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

We have not made up our mind on installing the mods, all or part or not at all. We may leave that as an option to add.


----------



## shadowfactory

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> We may leave that as an option to add.


That sounds perfect actually, being able to pick the mods you want during your purchasing process. 

Are there plans to produce all the 'old' models, or a limited number? Any new models coming?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



shadowfactory said:


> That sounds perfect actually, being able to pick the mods you want during your purchasing process.
> 
> Are there plans to produce all the 'old' models, or a limited number? Any new models coming?


We are going to start by producing processors first, the PA-2 Audiopath and the XO-3, then we will bring back the two most sold amps first, which were the 2.2HV and the DPS200, except the DPS200 will have a low profile version of the same style heat sink as the the 2.2HV has. It will look a lot like the low profile wide body heat sinks that the 4253IQ/4503IQ and 4753IQ came in. These heatsinks are only 2 inches tall as apposed to 3 inches in height on the 2.2HV and big amps. The next generation of amp to replace the 2.2HV will probably have the power capability of around an 8002SW but he same size as the 2.2HV now. 

We already have plans for the next generation of Linear Powr amps, which will still be HIGH QUALITY product built with the same principles they always were built with. Cosmetics will be along the same lines they always have been, but the amps will incorporate some new things internally to make them even better.


----------



## briansz

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

My entire system save for the wiring and the speaker level to line level converter has been purchased used. 

I think the last amp I bought new was a Crutchfield/PPI 4x75 model in the early 90's. But I would save my pennies for the chance to buy an new LP amp.


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



briansz said:


> My entire system save for the wiring and the speaker level to line level converter has been purchased used.
> 
> I think the last amp I bought new was a Crutchfield/PPI 4x75 model in the early 90's. But I would save my pennies for the chance to buy an new LP amp.


I read that and all I can think is... "I want that Crutchfield"


----------



## DAT

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Wow new LP's I'll take 3 of the 2202IQ's, and maybe a 8002SW or a decent sub amp.


----------



## Mooble

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Oh man, if I could get my hands on a custom 2.2, I'd never even look at another amp.

My wish list:
1) copper plated = sexy 
2) all WIMA film caps
3) Nichicon electro-caps
4) socketed op-amps


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Am about to get my 5 2502IQ's modified by Mr Linear Power. I can only imagine how their going to sound after the modds. They already sound great and are very powerfull amps.


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

omg what is goin on on this website
03


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Told ya Ray. Let me know when you need some help, I'll make some time in my schedule somewhere.
John


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Hey do you work for or is associated with Linear Power? Because am pretty new to Linear Power even though my collection grew overnight. And I only heard a lot about Robert, but no one else. And I would wish he himself modified my amps.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

My given name is Robert, but I am known as Ray by everyone in car audio and my friends; it's been my nick name since I was a kid. I actually prefer Ray from Robert.


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Yeah I know who you are, ray. I was talking about 6appeal. He stated he wanted to help you, and I dont know what he mean by that. So I ask if he was associated with Linear Power or you Ray.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

He has been a friend for about 25 years and lives about two miles from me


----------



## briansz

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



imjustjason said:


> I read that and all I can think is... "I want that Crutchfield"


There's a couple of them on evilBay at the moment, if they're worth enough to you <lol>. A little steep for me, and I now have the Gen VII Olympus that's a tad more robust. Still, a cool amp. Nice understated looks and quite rare.

My trip down memory lane actually ends with me purchasing three new closeout SS D100II's for use in my '90 Supra around 1994. That would have been the last new amps I bought, the Crutchfield piece was right before that <lol>. Believe I also had a Majestic MA9500 and an original Punch 45 Mosfet purchased new somewhere in there as well. Getting old.

Would still be worth the effort to own a new LP.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Now, here is a trip down memory lane, this is just a few of the Linear Power amps I have in our museum. Check next post for pics


----------



## SQ_MGB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Now Ray, if you post pics of the top shelf you might bring a tear to a few eyes....


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> Now, here is a trip down memory lane, this is just a few of the Linear Power amps I have in our museum. Check next post for pics


Here are the first few pics. These were made starting in 1975 under the name Shmegg, the name soon changed to Linear Power after the first year. The Model 250 is a two piece amp with the power supply in one half and the output stage in the other.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

Zapco nor Monolithic were not the first to come up with the idea of separating the power supply and output stages to reduce noise and increase sound quality. As seen in the picture of the Model 250, circa 1978


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> He has been a friend for about 25 years and lives about two miles from me


Actually it's about a mile. There's more in the museum than that!:laugh:
John


----------



## RoRo

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*

nice.. he sent me those last night...

must be nice livin near a legendary car audio temple so to speak


----------



## chad

thread moved and re-named, too much good stuff in here to leave in hot-deals......


----------



## RoRo

chad said:


> thread moved and re-named, too much good stuff in here to leave in hot-deals......


Thank you sir...


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



kilumenati said:


> must be nice livin near a legendary car audio temple so to speak


It's great and I've seen the "collection" grow through the years. The best part is that I don't pay shipping when I need my stuff worked on, just burn some gas.

In all seriousness, Ray has taught me a lot over the years. He's willing to listen to ideas and explain how and why something works or doesn't. I trust his judgement and recommendations. Ray still has a good ear (even after sooo many years of ground pounding, the Mustang, the Astro, the Breadtruck :laugh, so I get him to listen to my systems.
John


----------



## Oliver

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



6APPEAL said:


> It's great and I've seen the "collection" grow through the years. The best part is that I don't pay shipping when I need my stuff worked on, just burn some gas.
> 
> In all seriousness, Ray has taught me a lot over the years. He's willing to listen to ideas and explain how and why something works or doesn't. I trust his judgement and recommendations. Ray still has a good ear (even after sooo many years of ground pounding, the Mustang, the Astro, the Breadtruck :laugh, so I get him to listen to my systems.
> John


Somes luckier than others


----------



## TrickyRicky

Yeah his lucky. I wish I could be there when Ray modds my amplifiers. And I sure as hell cant wait too listen to them after the modds. I never heard of a Linear Power museum, is this Ray's personal collection? I wish I could go one day.


----------



## LinearPower

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah his lucky. I wish I could be there when Ray modds my amplifiers. And I sure as hell cant wait too listen to them after the modds. I never heard of a Linear Power museum, is this Ray's personal collection? I wish I could go one day.


It is the collection which has belonged to the factory, as well as, my own collection, when the factory originally closed and we restarted it; it was all handed to me to carry the torch so to speak. There is over 64 unique models of product in the museum covering all most all of the products ever made by Linear Power from the very first year and all the way to now. There are around 70 models that were made, so we are very clsoe to having all the models. There are even a few things that no one has ever seen or heard of.

24 volt amps for Disney World and Disney Land, 24 volt/240volt Civil Defense siren amplifiers (look like a 2202/2202IQ), specially made amps for the outdoor presentations of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra and a lot of first prototype products. Most people don't know that everything audio at Disney World and Disney Land was powered by Linear Power amps, we get an amp or two every few years in for repair still. They bought the 5002's and 8002SW's 15 years or so ago.


----------



## LinearPower

Oh, and yes EVERY model in the Museum works, some have never had a single repair. I have also had the priveledge of tweeking and working on Linear Power products for MC Hammer (he had all 24 Carrot gold plated amplifiers, I still have one of them here we made extra), and amps for Axel Rose, as well as, products for other well known names in sports, film, and music.


----------



## imjustjason

I remember a CA&E article on one of hammers cars. It was a 500sl loaded with gold plated everything. I don't know if the amps were LP or not. All I remember is a hideous gold plated waffle subwoofer grille!!


----------



## TrickyRicky

I bet MC Hammer said "Cant touch this" to the repo guys when they took the amps away. LOL.


----------



## gfbl

Jeanious2009 said:


> I bet MC Hammer said "Cant touch this" to the repo guys when they took the amps away. LOL.



rofl.dies.


----------



## |Tch0rT|

LinearPower said:


> MC Hammer (he had all 24 Carrot gold plated amplifiers)


I wonder if he sent those into Cash 4 Gold? :surprised:

YouTube - Cash4Gold - MC Hammer & Ed McMahon in Cash 4 Gold Ad

Ryan


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

I can't believe i've missed this thread till now... lol... sheeze.. 

I just found out how hard it is to get the finish off of black LP100's... I would guess powder coated (anyone??) 

I've now just left the stripper on, it's been 8hrs... nothing... I guess I should rinse then before bed..


----------



## RoRo

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I can't believe i've missed this thread till now... lol... sheeze..
> 
> I just found out how hard it is to get the finish off of black LP100's... I would guess powder coated (anyone??)
> 
> I've now just left the stripper on, it's been 8hrs... nothing... I guess I should rinse then before bed..


ye...

it was in the Hot Deals forum and started as "More amps from our favorite seller" aka JOMA.

Then along came Ray who recently joined, which blew this thing up with insane amounts of information... so I had chad move it since it was a waste to leave in the Hot Deals.

glad ya found it


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Me to brotha.. me to... thanks..


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> Here are the first few pics. These were made starting in 1975 under the name Shmegg, the name soon changed to Linear Power after the first year. The Model 250 is a two piece amp with the power supply in one half and the output stage in the other.


Just finished putting to beauties (2 502HV's) together that are already sold to customer coming to get them along with a matching 8002SW


----------



## Oliver

Thanx for that Ray !!

Does a Heart good  

epper:


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Ray,

What can you tell me about the finish on black LP100's...?? Anodized or Powder? I thought all the original amps were paint (well the non-anodized ones at least), but paint stripper isn't touching it.. 

Maybe, possibly, you could stop over here and have a look? >>> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...int-stripping-my-lp-amps-fail.html#post729107

I would greatly appreciate it...


----------



## TrickyRicky

I bet that cutomer knows what his buying, if his spending a fortune. Come on, 50watt high quality competition amplifier, more like 2000 real world watts. I can only imagine someone new to LP looking at those amps and saying "I dont want a 50watt amp, are you kidding me", and then when they try them, be more like "DAWM why this amp has 50watts on the face, its really more like 2000watts".


----------



## Mooble

Jeanious2009 said:


> I bet that cutomer knows what his buying, if his spending a fortune. Come on, 50watt high quality competition amplifier, more like 2000 real world watts. I can only imagine someone new to LP looking at those amps and saying "I dont want a 50watt amp, are you kidding me", and then when they try them, be more like "DAWM why this amp has 50watts on the face, its really more like 2000watts".


It's Zuki syndrome. The only difference is that LP has been around for a long time and people know what these amps actually put out. I don't know why LP used the power ratings they did on the HV series. They were accurate in their ratings of all the other amps. It's not like these are cheater amps. They can't handle anything below 2 ohms.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Well as far as I know all LP amps are rated at half of the continues RMS. Compare to other brands that give you ILS "If Lightning strikes" numbers. And plus the other brands give you numbers at high voltage like 15v and low ohms like 1-ohm. Which as we all know is stupid, you need atleast 4-ohms to sound good with a loud thump, or 8-ohms for SQ. Thats why all LP amps are rated at 8-ohms and 11.6v (I believe its that or 12.6v), non of that crazy numbers. The HV series are rated at even lower ratings. But when run like suppost to their capable of 2000watts. My 2502IQ's pushed TWO Cerwin Vega Strokers (1000watts each) like they were a pair of 8" subs and the sound was amazing, so deep and so clean, unlike other cheap brands.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> Well as far as I know all LP amps are rated at half of the continues RMS. Compare to other brands that give you ILS "If Lightning strikes" numbers. And plus the other brands give you numbers at high voltage like 15v and low ohms like 1-ohm. Which as we all know is stupid, you need atleast 4-ohms to sound good with a loud thump, or 8-ohms for SQ. Thats why all LP amps are rated at 8-ohms and 11.6v (I believe its that or 12.6v), non of that crazy numbers. The HV series are rated at even lower ratings. But when run like suppost to their capable of 2000watts. My 2502IQ's pushed TWO Cerwin Vega Strokers (1000watts each) like they were a pair of 8" subs and the sound was amazing, so deep and so clean, unlike other cheap brands.


SQ is based on impedence? Why didn't anyone tell me this before? 


You might be stretching it a bit with 2000watts.


----------



## tomtomjr

I wanted to collect the Linear Power amps, but started too late. Most are extremely high in price now. Should have stocked up in the 90's rather than sell them off. I have some really early LP amps, but sold off 2 of them. Tried to get them back since then, but he won't come off of them. 
Ray, I really like that early EQ you have in the pics. Is that a production model? Or just a one-off?


----------



## TrickyRicky

WRX/Z28 said:


> SQ is based on impedence? Why didn't anyone tell me this before?
> 
> 
> You might be stretching it a bit with 2000watts.



Well when you lower down the impendence, your making the amplifier work twice as hard, and it will loose SQ and pull more current and just turn it into heat. I would defenetly run all my LP amps at 4-ohms stereo or 8-ohm bridge. 

I dont think am stretching it. The 2502IQ has a max peak listed of 1400watts, and thats without loosing any SQ. When I use two Strokers it might not sound like 2000watts, but it sure sounds clear and nice without any distortion. I useto use cheap amps like: JBL, Kenwood, new rockfords, even a JL audio and I never heard something so clear and deep like a Linear Power. They also have more heatsink to power ratio.


----------



## LinearPower

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Ray,
> 
> What can you tell me about the finish on black LP100's...?? Anodized or Powder? I thought all the original amps were paint (well the non-anodized ones at least), but paint stripper isn't touching it..
> 
> Maybe, possibly, you could stop over here and have a look? I would greatly appreciate it... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...int-stripping-my-lp-amps-fail.html#post729107


All of the LP and DPS heat sinks were anodized, I know of none that were powder coated and we NEVER used just paint. Anodization is not going to come off with stripper, it is basically electrically stained into the alluminum during the anodization process, you can lighten the color and or discolor it but you are not going to remove it. It should be very lightly bead blasted and then powder coated to properly change the color to something that will last.

Where is here??


----------



## LinearPower

Mooble said:


> It's Zuki syndrome. The only difference is that LP has been around for a long time and people know what these amps actually put out. I don't know why LP used the power ratings they did on the HV series. They were accurate in their ratings of all the other amps. It's not like these are cheater amps. They can't handle anything below 2 ohms.


The power rating was changed to combat the high current cheater amps in the stereo contests, if other people are going to build high current cheater amps, Linear felt they could lie the opposite way. The low power figures were derived driving the amps at abusrdly low distortion levels into high impedance loads.

There is no reason to try to build something that will go below 2 ohms, any electrical engineer will admit that high voltage design is better than high current design (this is one reason the auto makers are looking at going to 36 or 48 volt electrical systems, they can transfer the same amount of power across a circuit with 3 or 4 times less current, which allows them to use smaller wire taht saves weight and money. A 36 volt system is 3 times more efficent than a 12 and a 48 volt is 4 times more efficient) 

Higher voltage has more potential for higher power than high curent design, since it is more efficient, pulls less current, has higher damping factor and headroom (sound quality), created less heat, has reduced distortion, and longer life than high current design. THE ONLY reason for high current amps were to cheat in a contest, there is no benefits to the electrical design, it has major negatives to the design. Since you are driving the circuit to develop twice the power in the same given amount of time you effectively reduce the life of the circuit by one half, if you reduce the resistance across the circuit from 2 to 1 then the life of the circuit is reduce to 1/4 what it was at 4 ohms. You have also INCREASED distortion bya factor of 4, and you have REDUCED headroom and damping factor by a factor of 4 which means your sound quality is basically gone. 

On paper and theory a electrical circuit will produce twice its power as the resistance or impedance across the circuit is reduced by one half. This is true but what is not explained is that the circuit becomes less efficient and the extra energy does not all go to drive the speaker. Say you have an amp that makes 100 watts at 4 ohms, theoretically it makes 200 at 2 ohms, but with losses and reduced efficiency the actual musical power is not a 100 percent increase, a lot of the energy is wasted as heat energy. This is why running amps into lower impedance loads produces way more heat. The actual USEABLE power increase fro mreducing the impedance is more along the lines of 50 to 60 percent, the rest is nothing but heat. And the lower the impedance you drive the worse the efficiency is and more of the power is wasted as heat energy and not electrical power to teh speaker.

High voltage design does not have the limits that high current design does, they tend to sound much better and last much longer. What better indication of this is Linear Power, the products have survived 20,25, 30 years and most with out a single failure. this is why people want them.


----------



## LinearPower

tomtomjr said:


> I wanted to collect the Linear Power amps, but started too late. Most are extremely high in price now. Should have stocked up in the 90's rather than sell them off. I have some really early LP amps, but sold off 2 of them. Tried to get them back since then, but he won't come off of them.
> Ray, I really like that early EQ you have in the pics. Is that a production model? Or just a one-off?


It was a production model, I have two or three of them. I like that 120, we need one for our museum, that is one of the pieces we are missing.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

LinearPower said:


> All of the LP and DPS heat sinks were anodized, I know of none that were powder coated and we NEVER used just paint. Anodization is not going to come off with stripper, it is basically electrically stained into the alluminum during the anodization process, you can lighten the color and or discolor it but you are not going to remove it. It should be very lightly bead blasted and then powder coated to properly change the color to something that will last.
> 
> Where is here??



I feel dumb.... lol.. I can get anodizing stripper... lol... I just thought it was powder coat.. lol.. 

Oh, when I said "over here" I posted a link to my thread about trying to strip the finish off from my amps.. sorry.. the link is right at the end of that sentence.. 

Thank you Sir,
Aaron..


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> Well when you lower down the impendence, your making the amplifier work twice as hard, and it will loose SQ and pull more current and just turn it into heat. I would defenetly run all my LP amps at 4-ohms stereo or 8-ohm bridge.
> 
> I dont think am stretching it. The 2502IQ has a max peak listed of 1400watts, and thats without loosing any SQ. When I use two Strokers it might not sound like 2000watts, but it sure sounds clear and nice without any distortion. I useto use cheap amps like: JBL, Kenwood, new rockfords, even a JL audio and I never heard something so clear and deep like a Linear Power. They also have more heatsink to power ratio.


Hmmm... at that point then, why not just double your SQ and run 16ohms? Actually, while you're at it, why not go to 32ohm and quadruple your sq. 

While it may be true that your amp will run much happier, cooler and more efficient into a higher impedence load, an SQ increase is IMO not going to be realized. 

Sure the numbers will change on paper, and your THD may go up, your S/N may go down, but at the end of the day, they are generally pretty small changes, and are outside the range where human hearing could detect a difference. It's been shown that most people can not detect clipping up to 10%, and that people can't hear volume changes below 3db, so what makes you think you'll hear the minor changes made when an amp runs at 2ohm stereo vs. 4ohm, and 4ohm vs. 8ohm?

I never thought i'd be arguing on this side of the fence, but I've run plenty of amps at multiple loads with no appreciable SQ difference. In fact, subwoofer wise, back in the day, I changed from an XTR2150 to an HCCA250, and took my trio of 12W6's wired for 4ohm, and rewired them for 1ohm. I don't think I gained anything other than being able to compete in a lower wattage class, but I don't think I lost anything either. Both amps were in the same chassis, and made the same power, just at different loads.


I understand what Ray is saying about 1ohm stable amps being somewhat of a waste unless you're trying to cheat in competitions, but that doesn't mean some of the high current designs aren't excellent amps, and don't sound good when running a lower impedence load. 

Also, dampening factor may change, but when you factor in the wiring, dampening factor is usually moot point anyway. 


That 2502iq may make more than it's rated 600rms, but 2000 watts is just an IFSL rating.


----------



## tomtomjr

LinearPower said:


> It was a production model, I have two or three of them. I like that 120, we need one for our museum, that is one of the pieces we are missing.


We had spoke of the LP 120 about a year or so ago. Then got a buyer on it. Wish I would have kept that one. The buyer is same guy with an even bigger Linear Power surfboard than mine. He is nuts about his LP stuff. About as much as me with my old Zapco stuff. I am sure you know him...


----------



## LinearPower

WRX/Z28 said:


> Hmmm... at that point then, why not just double your SQ and run 16ohms? Actually, while you're at it, why not go to 32ohm and quadruple your sq.
> 
> While it may be true that your amp will run much happier, cooler and more efficient into a higher impedence load, an SQ increase is IMO not going to be realized.
> 
> Sure the numbers will change on paper, and your THD may go up, your S/N may go down, but at the end of the day, they are generally pretty small changes, and are outside the range where human hearing could detect a difference. It's been shown that most people can not detect clipping up to 10%, and that people can't hear volume changes below 3db, so what makes you think you'll hear the minor changes made when an amp runs at 2ohm stereo vs. 4ohm, and 4ohm vs. 8ohm?
> 
> I never thought i'd be arguing on this side of the fence, but I've run plenty of amps at multiple loads with no appreciable SQ difference. In fact, subwoofer wise, back in the day, I changed from an XTR2150 to an HCCA250, and took my trio of 12W6's wired for 4ohm, and rewired them for 1ohm. I don't think I gained anything other than being able to compete in a lower wattage class, but I don't think I lost anything either. Both amps were in the same chassis, and made the same power, just at different loads.
> 
> Even you, yourself said you can tell great differences in the 2502IQ you have verses waht you have used in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand what Ray is saying about 1ohm stable amps being somewhat of a waste unless you're trying to cheat in competitions, but that doesn't mean some of the high current designs aren't excellent amps, and don't sound good when running a lower impedence load.
> 
> Also, dampening factor may change, but when you factor in the wiring, dampening factor is usually moot point anyway.
> 
> 
> That 2502iq may make more than it's rated 600rms, but 2000 watts is just an IFSL rating.


The limit to high voltage design are the transistors that are currently made, you are limited to the voltage ratings available for audio devices, as well as, finding ones that have good sound quality aspects too. High voltage audio devices are few and far between. The parts we use and the voltages we run are well suited for 8 ohm bridged or 4 ohm stereo loads, and are still able to run 2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm bridged to better suit customers with what is available currently for speakers. But yes if parts were available to make higher power amps at 16 ohms and the market was more skewed to using high impedance loads we would make even higher voltage amps, but even we have to live somewhat in the current market and make the products that work with what is available for speakers.

The 2502IQ/2.2HV runs at nearly 90 volts internally, the 5002/5002IQ/502HV runs at 120 volts, the 8002SW runs at 140 volts and the 4.1HV runs at nearly 160 volts. This is why there are high voltage warnings on the biggest of these amps, if you have the bottom off the amp or touch the speaker terminals (in jsut the right way) with the amp at full power you can have a nasty shock if not electricuted. 

The original engineer set up a test one time with an 8002SW at a show. US Amp was there showing at the time how they could arc cut an aluminum can with the output of their amps. 

Linear's engineer had a 8002SW with a electrical outlet mounted on the end of the amp. The amp was playing the subs in the demo vehicle and he plugged a vacuum cleaner into the outlet and started vacuuming the carpet in the booth. THe US AMP guy just shut his demo down in he next booth and went to lunch. I have even tapped off the internal power rails to run play stations in SUV and vans for customers that needed houshold type AC voltage.

I know quite a few people that would argue the point of SQ with you, it is appreciable differences, every time the impedance is cut in half, distortion is DOUBLED but POWER IS NOT DOUBLED, damping factor and headroom ARE cut in half, the life of the amp is reduced, heat is greatly increased (showing the efficiency loss), battery current draw is doubled also. It is a self defeating design, and again ANY good electronic engineer barring poltical motivation form his high current amp companies policies will tell you it is a poor design.


----------



## LinearPower

tomtomjr said:


> We had spoke of the LP 120 about a year or so ago. Then got a buyer on it. Wish I would have kept that one. The buyer is same guy with an even bigger Linear Power surfboard than mine. He is nuts about his LP stuff. About as much as me with my old Zapco stuff. I am sure you know him...


Yeah, we have about 65 of the 70 or so pieces made by Linear Power, we don't lack much having a complete collection. We have several things that no one has ever even seen that were proto units.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Must have been running a 60hz test tone huh? That's pretty cool. 

I used to get a couple of the guys in my shop to hold the banana plugs coming off an Xtant 1001d while they had sweaty hands. I'd turn up the deck connected, and zap! As long as they only held it in one hand, they were safe, but it still made them drop it. lol

As you mentioned earlier, higher voltage would allow us to run smaller speaker wire, and smaller power cables. At some point though, there's going to be a trade off in the extra insulation needed, no? 

I'm curious though, I understand that as voltage increases, amperage can decrease proportionally, and the same amount of work is being done, but how is a higher voltage amp better than a higher current amp if the same work is being done at the end of the day? 

Heat and longevity wise, i've dealt with a few high current amps that ran lukewarm all day into low impedence loads, and there are plenty of HCCA's still running around out there from the late '80's. 

Not trying to argue, obviously you build amps, and I don't, just trying to understand.


----------



## LinearPower

WRX/Z28 said:


> Must have been running a 60hz test tone huh? That's pretty cool.
> 
> I used to get a couple of the guys in my shop to hold the banana plugs coming off an Xtant 1001d while they had sweaty hands. I'd turn up the deck connected, and zap! As long as they only held it in one hand, they were safe, but it still made them drop it. lol
> 
> As you mentioned earlier, higher voltage would allow us to run smaller speaker wire, and smaller power cables. At some point though, there's going to be a trade off in the extra insulation needed, no?
> 
> I'm curious though, I understand that as voltage increases, amperage can decrease proportionally, and the same amount of work is being done, but how is a higher voltage amp better than a higher current amp if the same work is being done at the end of the day?
> 
> Heat and longevity wise, i've dealt with a few high current amps that ran lukewarm all day into low impedence loads, and there are plenty of HCCA's still running around out there from the late '80's.
> 
> Not trying to argue, obviously you build amps, and I don't, just trying to understand.


Well, first of all, isnt it hard for most people to build a big enough battery and alternator system just to drive power to all of these amps??? Yeah, I think that has always been an issue, so why make something as IN-EFFICIENT as possible????? The more efficient you make your amp system the less battery current your going to need to run them, so guess what you can RUN more amps on a high voltage amp system for an electrical system of a given size than you can high current amps. (going back to the same example of using high voltage electrical systems in cars) If current was not an issue we would still be running 6 volt cars like were used until the late 1950's! SECOND, we are back to the SOUND QUALITY of the amp. And enough said there, thats already been through! And once again its NOT a better way of making an amp from an engineering stand point, and that is just that. You can't argue with OHM's Law, mathematics, or physics, they don't change or lie! Well, I guess some can argue with them but its fruitless.


----------



## LinearPower

Linear Power built amps before there ever was a car stereo contest, they never built amps just to make power, they were built for sound quality and reliability, in designing and amp for sound quality you need reserve power (headroom) and control (damping factor); for reliability you need transistors capable of high power output and to give it the headroom and reliability you don't want to run them hard, to have damping factor and control you need voltage. 

This is the philosophy that Linear Power amps were built around and in doing so they backed in to making a powerful amp as a by-product of building a reliable sound quality amp. Linear Power amplifiers are designed to run at 50 percent or less (most Linear Power amps up to the 502HV only run at 30 percent) of the capability of the transistor. an example is the 5002IQ, the amp has a transistor rating of 750 watts per channel at maximum design spec of the tranasistors by Motorola, while the amp is rated at 250 watts per channel.(33 percent)

Most other manufacturers run their transistors at 75-85 percent of the design limits of the transistor. Some even run the transistors past their SOA (safe operating area) I have even seen quite a few off shore products that run their parts at around 110 precent of design limits (these are hand granades). Running a transistor that hard leaves little room for any kind of issue in the car environment, such as, low voltage, high voltage, a speaker with a little lower impedance than others; any of these things can be enough to push the amp over the edge. 

The other benefit of running your transistors at only a fraction of their capability is sound quality, they are not pressed up against the wall all the time, they have some room to give a little extra when needed. That is why Linear Power amps have around 3 dB of headroom where as most other companies only have around 1 dB of headroom.


----------



## TrickyRicky

LinearPower said:


> The limit to high voltage design are the transistors that are currently made, you are limited to the voltage ratings available for audio devices, as well as, finding ones that have good sound quality aspects too. High voltage audio devices are few and far between. The parts we use and the voltages we run are well suited for 8 ohm bridged or 4 ohm stereo loads, and are still able to run 2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm bridged to better suit customers with what is available currently for speakers. But yes if parts were available to make higher power amps at 16 ohms and the market was more skewed to using high impedance loads we would make even higher voltage amps, but even we have to live somewhat in the current market and make the products that work with what is available for speakers.
> 
> *The 2502IQ/2.2HV runs at nearly 90 volts internally, the 5002/5002IQ/502HV runs at 120 volts, the 8002SW runs at 140 volts and the 4.1HV runs at nearly 160 volts.* This is why there are high voltage warnings on the biggest of these amps, if you have the bottom off the amp or touch the speaker terminals (in jsut the right way) with the amp at full power you can have a nasty shock if not electricuted.
> 
> The original engineer set up a test one time with an 8002SW at a show. US Amp was there showing at the time how they could arc cut an aluminum can with the output of their amps.
> 
> Linear's engineer had a 8002SW with a electrical outlet mounted on the end of the amp. The amp was playing the subs in the demo vehicle and he plugged a vacuum cleaner into the outlet and started vacuuming the carpet in the booth. THe US AMP guy just shut his demo down in he next booth and went to lunch. I have even tapped off the internal power rails to run play stations in SUV and vans for customers that needed houshold type AC voltage.
> 
> I know quite a few people that would argue the point of SQ with you, it is appreciable differences, *every time the impedance is cut in half, distortion is DOUBLED but POWER IS NOT DOUBLED, damping factor and headroom ARE cut in half, the life of the amp is reduced, heat is greatly increased (showing the efficiency loss), battery current draw is doubled also. It is a self defeating design, and again ANY good electronic engineer barring poltical motivation form his high current amp companies policies will tell you it is a poor design*.



I told you so! This is so true. Like I said I use to use amps that were 1-ohm stable. And yes I did notice a difference when I switched it to 8-ohms. It sounded better and had better damping control. And this was on a JBL. Now Linear Power amps, their the best. They have the most Damping Factor, less THD, higher Signal to Noise ratio, and more. My 2502IQ's may not be 2000 watts, but they sure can push anything that comes their way.

I tested a JBL GTO 1200.1 with JUST ONE Stroker 12" and within 10 minutes of normal play the amp just stop working and when I checked it was smoking and when touched that SH*T was hotter than a frying pan. This amp is rated at 750watts at 4-ohms and thats what I used. How come my 250watt Linear Power amp push TWO Strokers without any problems and I played them for over 45 minutes and not even warm. I guess that shows what I am going to use from now on.


----------



## LinearPower

Question! If I have some Linear Power T shirts made up, would any of you guys be interested in buying them? They will have the NEW Logo on the back which is the LP ball, the name Linear Power, and the phrase "for The Love Of Music" under the name, on the front it will have the LP ball on the upper left chest area. They will probably sell for 35-40 bucks. Just let me know, so I knwo who might want on and I will know about how many to make.


----------



## baggedbirds

I would be game ! 

$30-40 are the embroidered or something? screen printed?


----------



## bass_lover1

I'm game, also curious about the above question.


----------



## SteveLPfreak

LinearPower said:


> Question! If I have some Linear Power T shirts made up, would any of you guys be interested in buying them? They will have the NEW Logo on the back which is the LP ball, the name Linear Power, and the phrase "for The Love Of Music" under the name, on the front it will have the LP ball on the upper left chest area. They will probably sell for 35-40 bucks. Just let me know, so I knwo who might want on and I will know about how many to make.


I'm down. I still have a couple of the much older LP t-shirts I wear to bed.


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> I would be game !
> 
> $30-40 are the embroidered or something? screen printed?


It would be screenprinted on a T shirt, I am looking into embroidery on some Polo style shirts, but that would be down the road a little. The price maybe a little less for the T shirts, but I am planning on using a heavy weight Hanes T shirt or simular, no light weight T shirts that wear out in 6 months. I have to finish pricing everything. I am guessing on the price right now, but I know simular quality T shirts like Hard Rock, Eskimo Joes, and nice concert T shirts sell around the simular range.


----------



## TrickyRicky

LinearPower said:


> Question! If I have some Linear Power T shirts made up, would any of you guys be interested in buying them? They will have the NEW Logo on the back which is the LP ball, the name Linear Power, and the phrase "for The Love Of Music" under the name, on the front it will have the LP ball on the upper left chest area. They will probably sell for 35-40 bucks. Just let me know, so I knwo who might want on and I will know about how many to make.


If its embroided I would defenetly be interested. Or if signed by Ray, hell yeah.


----------



## LinearPower

Never seen anyone try to embroider a T shirt, but like I said it would be further down the road and we may offer a embroidered Polo style shirt. We will me using quality shirts and graphics in what ever we do, just like with our amps! LOL!!

If some wants my autograph I guess I can throw that in, but don't know why anyone would want to mess up a nice shirt with my scribble.


----------



## Mooble

Hell yeah, I'd buy one. I'm still freaking out about the possibility of new 2.2s.


----------



## LinearPower

What sizes you all need too. We are thinking about jsut offering large and XL for now, that seems to be the most popular size. If I can get enough orders by size I may can do any size needed then.


----------



## ChrisB

I would be down for a t-shirt or two (depending on color options)... Only problem is I need to drop some pounds so I would need a couple of 2XL shirts 

ETA: I can squeeze into most XLs so that would work too


----------



## ChrisB

Mooble said:


> Hell yeah, I'd buy one. I'm still freaking out about the possibility of new 2.2s.


Whatcha talking bout Mooble? I am pumped about something with the power of an 8002SW in the size of a 2.2HV


----------



## LinearPower

Tell you all just email me at [email protected] with t shirt as a subject and tell me what sizes and how many, so I can get an accurate count of how many I need to have done. Money is at a premium and I can't just do a bunch of each size and let them sit around, I also have to meet minimum screen print runs at the printers.


----------



## TrickyRicky

LinearPower said:


> Never seen anyone try to embroider a T shirt, but like I said it would be further down the road and we may offer a embroidered Polo style shirt. We will me using quality shirts and graphics in what ever we do, just like with our amps! LOL!!
> 
> If some wants my autograph I guess I can throw that in, but don't know why anyone would want to mess up a nice shirt with my scribble.


Hell I take one with your scribble. But am just like that other guy, I need to drop a few pounds to fit a XL. If theres a 2XL or something with a 52" chest, then I will defenetly take one.


----------



## Mooble

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Whatcha talking bout Mooble? I am pumped about something with the power of an 8002SW in the size of a 2.2HV


Then I can run my subs at 16 ohms and still have plenty of power. 

Money is at a premium for me too.  When would the shirts be ready?


----------



## baggedbirds

I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything :worried:. I am only asking because if your screeners are wanting more than $13-$15 for a shirt to be made then they might be charging you too much IMO. The Gildan Ultra cotton with 3 colors was only $9-$11 a shirt cost when I did shirts for my site. I thought it might have been embroidered because of the digitizing fee to get started usually jacks the price up some.

Budnik wheels offers a partially embroidered t-shirt. 

oh - I need XL 

Oh - How about a "pre-order". I do it on my site, I take money and sizes before production so people get what they want and I order a few extra for stock. The 2XL and larger ALWAYS cost more per shirt. Then you (Ray) have money in hand so you don't get stiffed. It usually costs me about $400 to get a run of shirts out (about 25 shirts) and it sucks to out of pocket that.


----------



## LinearPower

Jeanious2009 said:


> Hell I take one with your scribble. But am just like that other guy, I need to drop a few pounds to fit a XL. If theres a 2XL or something with a 52" chest, then I will defenetly take one.


I think we all have a few extra pounds to lose, I know I/m not as trim as I used to be. Just email me guys and if I know how many of each size I can make them what we need them to be, I jsut don't need to guess and havea bunch laying around not used. Money is to tight for me for that.


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything :worried:. I am only asking because if your screeners are wanting more than $13-$15 for a shirt to be made then they might be charging you too much IMO. The Gildan Ultra cotton with 3 colors was only $9-$11 a shirt cost when I did shirts for my site. I thought it might have been embroidered because of the digitizing fee to get started usually jacks the price up some.
> 
> Budnik wheels offers a partially embroidered t-shirt.
> 
> oh - I need XL
> 
> Oh - How about a "pre-order". I do it on my site, I take money and sizes before production so people get what they want and I order a few extra for stock. The 2XL and larger ALWAYS cost more per shirt. Then you (Ray) have money in hand so you don't get stiffed. It usually costs me about $400 to get a run of shirts out (about 25 shirts) and it sucks to out of pocket that.


Well, like I was saying I am just estimating, using known prices that I have personally bought shirts for. I will get the exact price soon, I also have to make a little bit on the shirts to be able to make it worth the time, as well as, raise funds to help get the products produced faster!!!! It's not all about profit, it's for the guys that love the product to have a shirt too. 


I guess that is what I may do is a pre-order if the guys want to do it that way.


----------



## baggedbirds

I trust you. Just keep us in the loop.


----------



## shadowfactory

I'd be down for a L or XL, but if it was $40 a shirt I would have to do some soul searching first. $20-25 on the other hand, is much more palatable. No offense, just that I have a **** ton of t-shirts of all kinds including some really nice designer ones and have never paid $40 for one.  $40 or 50 for a nice embroidered polo though, would be just fine.


----------



## kappa546

so how about some pictures of the said logos on the t-shirts... I'm unsure whether they'd be classic designs or something updated.


----------



## baggedbirds

this old school chrome logo is my favorite. I use to have one.










Did anyone ever have the little black 3"x.375" or so LinearPower metal badges with the adhesive on the back? I use to have a few of them somewhere.


----------



## TrickyRicky

baggedbirds said:


> this old school chrome logo is my favorite. I use to have one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone ever have the little black 3"x.375" or so LinearPower metal badges with the adhesive on the back? I use to have a few of them somewhere.


I would defenetly get the #2 muscle shirt and the #6 longsleeve shirt with "Linear Power running on the right sleeve. Man thats the ****. I never got to see this catalog. Were can I see the full-version or the full catalog.


----------



## WRX/Z28

LinearPower said:


> Question! If I have some Linear Power T shirts made up, would any of you guys be interested in buying them? They will have the NEW Logo on the back which is the LP ball, the name Linear Power, and the phrase "for The Love Of Music" under the name, on the front it will have the LP ball on the upper left chest area. They will probably sell for 35-40 bucks. Just let me know, so I knwo who might want on and I will know about how many to make.


Put me down for one.


----------



## 6APPEAL

I still have the black t-shirt with the gum machine (like the muscle shirt, #2). I have worn out the shirts like #3 and #4, still got'em, but they are thread bare. My wife and I have matching LP jackets (#7) with our names embroidered on the front. The really cool part is that they were delivered to Wood's Stereo (LP dealer) by Ruth. Got to meet her, very nice lady.
John


----------



## ChrisB

John, I saw a Buick GN here in town a few weekends ago in completely restored condition. The license plate said XTINCT


----------



## TrickyRicky

6APPEAL said:


> I still have the black t-shirt with the gum machine (like the muscle shirt, #2). I have worn out the shirts like #3 and #4, still got'em, but they are thread bare. My wife and I have matching LP jackets (#7) with our names embroidered on the front. The really cool part is that they were delivered to Wood's Stereo (LP dealer) by Ruth. Got to meet her, very nice lady.
> John


John, you just dont know how much I envy you right now. I wish I would of met Ruth and I wish I would of gotten all that gear. I probably would of never worn it just hang it in a case for history. This is history, just imagine 10 years from now, I know amps are just going to get cheaper, but Linear Power if for life.


----------



## DAT

Another addition to my collection:

Plum Purple 2202IQ


----------



## TrickyRicky

DAT said:


> Another addition to my collection:
> 
> Plum Purple 2202IQ


Thats a nice amplifier. I have 3 of those 2202IQ's. Five of the 2502IQ's, one 1502IQ, 452,652I, and a 952 and a XO2. And currently getting those five 2502IQ modded by Ray himself.


----------



## ca90ss

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> We have not made up our mind on installing the mods, all or part or not at all. We may leave that as an option to add.


If you're building new amps then why not install them? The price difference in parts can't be more than a few $. Why sell something that could be better instead of something that is as good as possible from the beginning? Will the newer models still use to-3's and if so will you still be using the same method of mounting them to the heatsink as the older models or will that be improved as well? Also when modding older amps for added power output what do you do to address the added heat?


----------



## 6APPEAL

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> John, I saw a Buick GN here in town a few weekends ago in completely restored condition. The license plate said XTINCT


I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that plate at previous Buick Nats. I'll be on the lookout at Buick Nats next week. Sweet vacation time is coming.
John


----------



## LinearPower

kappa546 said:


> so how about some pictures of the said logos on the t-shirts... I'm unsure whether they'd be classic designs or something updated.


Here is the new style logo, WE NEVER differ much on quality whether its electronic or our name, this is just a more classy logo than things had gone to in the recent past.

The last endplates on the HV products had gotten to looking fairly tacky when Dhramatronics were still building the amps. This is the LOGO that is now used on all new products.

As stated on another post, the FULL Logo will be on the back of the shirt and the LP ball on the front left upper chest area on the front.


----------



## Mooble

That works


----------



## zatchmo

oh man. You should have used the suggestion in Mooble's avitar.


----------



## Mooble

I give you permission to use the image.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



ca90ss said:


> If you're building new amps then why not install them? The price difference in parts can't be more than a few $. Why sell something that could be better instead of something that is as good as possible from the beginning? Will the newer models still use to-3's and if so will you still be using the same method of mounting them to the heatsink as the older models or will that be improved as well? Also when modding older amps for added power output what do you do to address the added heat?


I think we have addressed simular questions on the product in earlier posts, but the product WILL maintain the original sound quality and design principles, TO-3's will still be used in the larger products just as they always have, power supply transistors may change to fet devices in some of the products but all output devices will remain TO-3.

We already have designs on the next generation of product which include some of the improvements of the modifications. The modifications ARE NOT all about POWER, they are more greatly dealing with sound quality, and keeping reliability the same or better. WE DO NOT MAKE HAND GRANADES like some companies have in the past. The power increases are the least thing we or the customers are looking for in the mods, the power increases on most of the amp mods are from 10 to 30 percent increases. As far heat, Linear Power has always over built everything, including the heat sink, Linear Power originally designed the heat sink with more heat sink area per watt than any other manufacturer. There is more than enough heat sink to dissapate the extra heat. We have been doing mods for over 10 years for customers and have many many modified products out there and have never had a complaint on heat. You can check our customer comment page at www.linearpower.com there are customers that have left contact infor to answer questions.

As far as putting every mod in a product, hey no good card player shows all of his cards! We have to have additional things for the future, as well as, as pricey as the amps are, we don't want to drive the price even higher on the standard line. Thats why manufacturers give you choices, say such as a base model Mustang, A Mustang Cobra, or a Carol Shelby Mustang. Same basic car different packages at differeent prices for different peoples needs. 

Part prices ae not the only cost to consider in a product, enigneering and design time has to be paid for in ANY product. The price does go up with additional technology.


----------



## LinearPower

Mooble said:


> I give you permission to use the image.


Probably could not afford your licensing rights to use the image, SORRY!


----------



## DAT

Awesome Ray !

if we want mods we will send to JOMA for upgrades. J/K 

You should see my *952IQ* and *2202IQ* coming in the next few weeks for the MOD's Will PM you before I do this for total.


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> As far as putting every mod in a product, hey no good card player shows all of his cards! We have to have additional things for the future, as well as, as pricey as the amps are, we don't want to drive the price even higher on the standard line. Thats why manufacturers give you choices, say such as a base model Mustang, A Mustang Cobra, or a Carol Shelby Mustang. Same basic car different packages at differeent prices for different peoples needs.


That is the VERY thing that drives me nuts about LP amp and these Mods that I constantly read about. Why produce an amp that is NOT the best it can be? Your statement, by my understanding, eludes to the fact that LP amps alone are only producing 75-80% of what they can produce and it doesn't sound as good as it possibly can. You have to pay more to get the full potential and sound quality out of one. I don't know of anybody that buys a base model Mustang and is under the impression that it's going to perform anywhere near the level of a Shelby, but; EVERYONE I know that buys an amplifier thinks they are going to get the most possible out thier new amp straight out of the box. A guy that's going to spend what one of these amps will cost is wanting performance not economy. People buy base model Mustangs for economic reasons. A guy spending $500-$1000 on an amp wants full potential from his investment, not the economy version.

I have LP amps, have had for years, and love them, but this whole mod thing just makes me want to dissassociate myself from them completely. Honestly, if I'm only getting 3/4's of the available output and quality that's inferior to what's possible then it's an inferior amp in all aspects.


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> this old school chrome logo is my favorite. I use to have one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone ever have the little black 3"x.375" or so LinearPower metal badges with the adhesive on the back? I use to have a few of them somewhere.


I have tons of them, still!


----------



## baggedbirds

Ray - are you talking about the little badges?

Are they for sale


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> Ray - are you talking about the little badges?
> 
> Are they for sale


These were the little metal plates that were about an inch tall and about 3.5 inches long, were black backgound with a silver border.


----------



## bass_lover1

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



imjustjason said:


> That is the VERY thing that drives me nuts about LP amp and these Mods that I constantly read about. Why produce an amp that is NOT the best it can be? Your statement, by my understanding, eludes to the fact that LP amps alone are only producing 75-80% of what they can produce and it doesn't sound as good as it possibly can. You have to pay more to get the full potential and sound quality out of one. I don't know of anybody that buys a base model Mustang and is under the impression that it's going to perform anywhere near the level of a Shelby, but; EVERYONE I know that buys an amplifier thinks they are going to get the most possible out thier new amp straight out of the box. A guy that's going to spend what one of these amps will cost is wanting performance not economy. People buy base model Mustangs for economic reasons. A guy spending $500-$1000 on an amp wants full potential from his investment, not the economy version.
> 
> I have LP amps, have had for years, and love them, but this whole mod thing just makes me want to dissassociate myself from them completely. Honestly, if I'm only getting 3/4's of the available output and quality that's inferior to what's possible then it's an inferior amp in all aspects.


Think about it this way.

I have a 652 from 1989, my guess is that in the last 20 years, quite a bit has changed technology wise. When I get my 652 modded, it brings it up to date. It's not that the products are inferior, it's that the newer models are basically modded versions of the last model. So my 652, will be similar to a 652IQ.


----------



## LinearPower

Ok, guys if you want a T-Shirt send me an e-mail at [email protected] with the subjest line of T-Shirt, we have file set up accumulating these requests, once we have enough interest we will get back with you on the shirts. To hard to go back and get everyones post off here.


----------



## LinearPower

DAT said:


> Awesome Ray !
> 
> if we want mods we will send to JOMA for upgrades. J/K
> 
> You should see my *952IQ* and *2202IQ* coming in the next few weeks for the MOD's Will PM you before I do this for total.


Sorry to say, but I have seen JOMA's upgrades and custom endplates up close and personal, I have had to correct a lot of them, reverting them back to normal!


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



bass_lover1 said:


> Think about it this way.
> 
> I have a 652 from 1989, my guess is that in the last 20 years, quite a bit has changed technology wise. When I get my 652 modded, it brings it up to date. It's not that the products are inferior, it's that the newer models are basically modded versions of the last model. So my 652, will be similar to a 652IQ.


I get that completely. I understand updating a 20 year old amp. The IQ's are quiter (no turn on thump) and sound better, got it, that I can understand. Thanks for the peaceful response, I was expecting to get lit up like a pack of Lucky's. :blush:

He (Ray) was talking about new product and ca90ss asked if he was going to include the mods in the new amps. Ray responded with the "cards close to the vest" statement above. That is what I am referring to. Why not make the new amps the best they can be. Doesn't make any sense to me.


----------



## imjustjason

JOMA custom endplates are so last week, this is where it's at...



Mooble said:


>


Cover up of auto-dupe.


----------



## WRX/Z28

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



imjustjason said:


> I get that completely. I understand updating a 20 year old amp. The IQ's are quiter (no turn on thump) and sound better, got it, that I can understand. Thanks for the peaceful response, I was expecting to get lit up like a pack of Lucky's. :blush:
> 
> He (Ray) was talking about new product and ca90ss asked if he was going to include the mods in the new amps. Ray responded with the "cards close to the vest" statement above. That is what I am referring to. Why not make the new amps the best they can be. Doesn't make any sense to me.


I follow what you are saying, especially if the cost difference is minimal. However, if the cost difference is greater, why not have a base model, and an upgraded model.

I think the general idea is that the upgrades may not be worth the added cost to everyone. This is the same reason Zed built amps with and without burr brown upgrades. He himself said the performance difference was very small, but at the end of the day, some people were still willing to pay to make it the best it could be. I think others would see the value in a LP amp even without mods, and may elect to save a couple bucks on mod's that may not be that big of a difference anyway. 

The whole question here is what is the cost difference, and what is the true performance difference. If the performace difference is high, and the cost is low, it makes no sense not to build them that way off the bat. If the cost difference is high, and the performance difference is low, then it makes sense. Not everone want's to pay $200 difference on a $500 amp just to make it 5% better. Some might though...


----------



## Mooble

I would agree with the upgrade mentality. Some people don't want to pay for all the upgrades. It's not that the base line is low quality, but some people want a little more than that. Tru is probably the king of options and upgrades. Most people want that option.

As far as power goes, I prefer to have a nice safety margin built in. Old school Soundstreams had 1,800 watt output capability on 600 watt amps. You could have tweaked them for more power, but that's why they were so reliable. They were very "underpowered" or overbuilt. I think my Tru has six times the output capability that I run it at. Theoritically it could suck 640 amps if you ran it balls-out, but you'd only ever use 1/3 of that, even if you ran it into 1 ohm on all four channels.


----------



## SQ_MGB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



WRX/Z28 said:


> I follow what you are saying, especially if the cost difference is minimal. However, if the cost difference is greater, why not have a base model, and an upgraded model.
> 
> I think the general idea is that the upgrades may not be worth the added cost to everyone. This is the same reason Zed built amps with and without burr brown upgrades. He himself said the performance difference was very small, but at the end of the day, some people were still willing to pay to make it the best it could be. I think others would see the value in a LP amp even without mods, and may elect to save a couple bucks on mod's that may not be that big of a difference anyway.
> 
> The whole question here is what is the cost difference, and what is the true performance difference. If the performace difference is high, and the cost is low, it makes no sense not to build them that way off the bat. If the cost difference is high, and the performance difference is low, then it makes sense. Not everone want's to pay $200 difference on a $500 amp just to make it 5% better. Some might though...



X2

I'll put my stock LP amp up against anyone else's that is running similar amounts of power any day of the week, and feel confident that it can hang even though it was built in 1987. There is NOTHING inferior about any LP product in the design or functioning that I've ever seen or heard about and I've known about and used it for over 20 years.

As WRX stated, not everyone wants to pay for the upgraded model, just like everyone with a Mustang doesn't buy a Cobra, but they want the best possible product for the amount they have to spend. The mods are for people looking to get the absolute maximum sound quality out of the amp possible and the extra power is a bonus.

Stock LP product is IMHO one of the greatest products out there. There are very few manufacturers that have amps that old that still work without being in for repairs at some point in it's life. Modified LP product is IMHO the BEST product out there bar none. If there's something better, it sure as heck won't be in the same price range! All the mods do is get the last little bit of extra left in the amp that the "bean counters" (I'm a bean counter) wouldn't let them do at the factory.


----------



## 6APPEAL

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



imjustjason said:


> That is the VERY thing that drives me nuts about LP amp and these Mods that I constantly read about. Why produce an amp that is NOT the best it can be? Your statement, by my understanding, eludes to the fact that LP amps alone are only producing 75-80% of what they can produce and it doesn't sound as good as it possibly can. You have to pay more to get the full potential and sound quality out of one. I don't know of anybody that buys a base model Mustang and is under the impression that it's going to perform anywhere near the level of a Shelby, but; EVERYONE I know that buys an amplifier thinks they are going to get the most possible out thier new amp straight out of the box. A guy that's going to spend what one of these amps will cost is wanting performance not economy. People buy base model Mustangs for economic reasons. A guy spending $500-$1000 on an amp wants full potential from his investment, not the economy version.
> 
> I have LP amps, have had for years, and love them, but this whole mod thing just makes me want to dissassociate myself from them completely. Honestly, if I'm only getting 3/4's of the available output and quality that's inferior to what's possible then it's an inferior amp in all aspects.


Your own analogy is the best example. People by the base model because that's what they want or can afford. They are either satisfied with the product they purchased.... Or they go to manufacturer/aftermarket for upgrades that is not offered or when they can afford to upgrade. And that is anything, engine, trans, wheels, tires, suspension, stereo, paint and the list could go on. The mods on the LP amps are just that, an upgrade from the manufactor for folks that want that something extra.

If you're satisified with your LP's, then be happy. You are getting everything out of the amp's design and build that you were looking for. If you're not happy because the amps "can be modded" for better performance, then by all means "_dissassociate yourself from them completely_" to use your own words. But don't condenm the rest of us for wanting for something more or Linear for offering an upgrade.

By your logic, Ford's base model Mustangs are inferior in all aspects because it's not a Shelby. That logic could be applied against any manufacturer, take your pick, another car company? A clothing manufacturer? Another electronics company? Any gun company? Take your pick, then apply your own logic. Or is it that because a manufacturer gives a product different model number/name it's all well and good? If that's the case maybe Linear/Ray should designate the modded amps as a different model.
John


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



SQ_MGB said:


> X2
> 
> I'll put my stock LP amp up against anyone else's that is running similar amounts of power any day of the week, and feel confident that it can hang even though it was built in 1987. There is NOTHING inferior about any LP product in the design or functioning that I've ever seen or heard about and I've known about and used it for over 20 years.
> 
> As WRX stated, not everyone wants to pay for the upgraded model, just like everyone with a Mustang doesn't buy a Cobra, but they want the best possible product for the amount they have to spend. The mods are for people looking to get the absolute maximum sound quality out of the amp possible and the extra power is a bonus.
> 
> Stock LP product is IMHO one of the greatest products out there. There are very few manufacturers that have amps that old that still work without being in for repairs at some point in it's life. Modified LP product is IMHO the BEST product out there bar none. If there's something better, it sure as heck won't be in the same price range! All the mods do is get the last little bit of extra left in the amp that the "bean counters" (I'm a bean counter) wouldn't let them do at the factory.


Just to clarify one thing that he said here, Linear Power NEVER pushes anything to its limit, we may add mods that take it to what we consider a safe limit, but WE WILL NOT effect RELIABLITY!! 

If someone feels a Linear Power product is inferior because we won't take it to the limit like other manufacturers, all I can say is I'm sorry, but that is one of the reasons we still have product working 20,25,30,and even 35 years and it is STILL in high demand and selling close to, if not at, or above original retail. 

Also, some peeple can't afford a top model with all the options in the beginning, they can afford a base amp just as a base car, they can come back later for the "Max Daddy" add in. Thats why we do what we do and how we do it, and thats why Ford has SVT and SVO parts, to add to that base model. Just as other car manufacturers do. This is to the most customers satisfaction, sorry we can't please everyone, everytime, but that is an impossibility.

I think most of these guys here are stating what we do, and why we do it, pretty close. No further comments need from me.


----------



## imjustjason

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



6APPEAL said:


> Your own analogy is the best example. People by the base model because that's what they want or can afford. They are either satisfied with the product they purchased.... Or they go to manufacturer/aftermarket for upgrades that is not offered or when they can afford to upgrade. And that is anything, engine, trans, wheels, tires, suspension, stereo, paint and the list could go on. The mods on the LP amps are just that, an upgrade from the manufactor for folks that want that something extra.
> 
> If you're satisified with your LP's, then be happy. You are getting everything out of the amp's design and build that you were looking for. If you're not happy because the amps "can be modded" for better performance, then by all means "_dissassociate yourself from them completely_" to use your own words. But don't condenm the rest of us for wanting for something more or Linear for offering an upgrade.
> 
> By your logic, Ford's base model Mustangs are inferior in all aspects because it's not a Shelby. That logic could be applied against any manufacturer, take your pick, another car company? A clothing manufacturer? Another electronics company? Any gun company? Take your pick, then apply your own logic. Or is it that because a manufacturer gives a product different model number/name it's all well and good? If that's the case maybe Linear/Ray should designate the modded amps as a different model.
> John


Well, here we are again. You and I have had this discussion at least twice.

Ray come up with the car / amp analogy, I don't think there is a direct comparison. The consumer purchasing a NEW Linear Power product and the consumer purchasing a base model Mustang are two ENTIRELY different consumers. 

I just feel that the guy willing to buy an NEW LP amp would want that amp to be the best it could be. If someone was wanting an economic solution to car amplification they wouldn't be looking at LP in the first place. 

I don't think Bugatti makes a base model Veyron so why should a high end amp manufacturer.


----------



## guitarsail

I was wondering when we'd see you....next up...
FS a bunch of my no good nonmodded LP's


----------



## imjustjason

guitarsail said:


> I was wondering when we'd see you....next up...
> FS a bunch of my no good nonmodded LP's


What sucks is I would like to get my 5002 modded for 8 ohm mono... 

Plus, my 3002 was modded to IQ standards. So, I fail twice.


----------



## guitarsail

why does that suck? I mean your LP sucks now but it could be even awesomer!


----------



## TrickyRicky

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



ca90ss said:


> If you're building new amps then why not install them? The price difference in parts can't be more than a few $. Why sell something that could be better instead of something that is as good as possible from the beginning?



Good question, but thats why not all cars come supercharged. Because they range in prices where it can be afford by different budgets. Linear Power modds are not cheap, they run 150.00 plus S&H both ways. And custom modds cost even more, am sure. Thats a big difference between a 600.00 LP amp to the same amp for 800.00 just modified.


----------



## kappa546

Actually, i'm in agreement with ca90ss and imjustjason on this one. I'm in no way against modding any of my amps (in fact every single one of my amps has been modded). What they're saying is the current mods came in much AFTER the design and production of the amps and offered as updates (I don't think LP ever designed anything they didn't think was the best it could be at the time), not in the method that is being proposed. If i'm buying a new LP ($$$), i'm in the camp that would save up the extra bit to get the best. I can understand ommiting "power upgrades" because there will be many people that don't want max power at 4 or 8ohms, plain and simple. SQ options should be standard, AND i love Mooble's suggestion of having the option of *socketed op amps.* << RAY, you should really consider that... although i have a sinking feeling he won't.


----------



## MarkZ

kappa546 said:


> Actually, i'm in agreement with ca90ss and imjustjason on this one. I'm in no way against modding any of my amps (in fact every single one of my amps has been modded). What they're saying is the current mods came in much AFTER the design and production of the amps and offered as updates (I don't think LP ever designed anything they didn't think was the best it could be at the time), not in the method that is being proposed. If i'm buying a new LP ($$$), i'm in the camp that would save up the extra bit to get the best. I can understand ommiting "power upgrades" because there will be many people that don't want max power at 4 or 8ohms, plain and simple. SQ options should be standard, AND i love Mooble's suggestion of having the option of *socketed op amps.* << RAY, you should really consider that... although i have a sinking feeling he won't.


That's a recipe for chip creep! 

I haven't been following the whole thread, so forgive me if this is redundant, but... Depending on the SOA of the output transistors, and some of the voltage ratings of components elsewhere (particularly capacitors, and maybe drivers...), doing a mod to maximize power into 8 ohms shouldn't sacrifice anything else that the original designers intended. All that it really does is increase the rail voltage. So you only have to make sure the components are rated for that voltage. 

OR, give the rest of the amplifier (eg. input stages, etc) the lower voltage and give the VA/output stages the higher voltage. Like keep the original transformer for the other stuff, or replace it with a dual-tap transformer.

This is why amps with switchable rail voltages make me happy.


----------



## mjgonegm

I have a few questions,

1. This may be a stupid question, but what would LP amps be considers as? Class d, Class a, Etc...

2. What are some "no-no's" to look for when buying LP amps?

3. Does LP plan on making a new series of amps and if so would the prices be like?

4. will there be a 3x sized shirt made? Or a 2x long? (I also think pre order would be a good idea)


----------



## |Tch0rT|

mjgonegm said:


> I have a few questions,
> 
> 1. This may be a stupid question, but what would LP amps be considers as? Class d, Class a, Etc...
> 
> 2. What are some "no-no's" to look for when buying LP amps?


1. Class A/B

2. Buying them from JOMA.

Ryan


----------



## imjustjason

kappa546 said:


> Actually, i'm in agreement with ca90ss and imjustjason on this one. I'm in no way against modding any of my amps (in fact every single one of my amps has been modded). What they're saying is the current mods came in much AFTER the design and production of the amps and offered as updates (I don't think LP ever designed anything they didn't think was the best it could be at the time), not in the method that is being proposed. If i'm buying a new LP ($$$), i'm in the camp that would save up the extra bit to get the best. I can understand ommiting "power upgrades" because there will be many people that don't want max power at 4 or 8ohms, plain and simple. SQ options should be standard, AND i love Mooble's suggestion of having the option of *socketed op amps.* << RAY, you should really consider that... although i have a sinking feeling he won't.


That's my only question... why not make the new ones the best they can be.

I have finally accepted that the older ones can me made better. It was a VERY hard pill for me to swallow. I spent well over a year at age 19 scraping together $900 to buy a 5002 in 1987. Only to find out 20+ years later that it has only been producing 3/4's of it potential for me the entire time. Then to top that off I find out that it was only 50 bucks or so worth of parts away from being astonishing the whole time.


----------



## WRX/Z28

imjustjason said:


> That's my only question... why not make the new ones the best they can be.
> 
> I have finally accepted that the older ones can me made better. It was a VERY hard pill for me to swallow. I spent well over a year at age 19 scraping together $900 to buy a 5002 in 1987. Only to find out 20+ years later that it has only been producing 3/4's of it potential for me the entire time. Then to top that off I find out that it was only 50 bucks or so worth of parts away from being astonishing the whole time.


Well, Imagine in 1987 how much that $50 worth of parts really cost. Then Imagine the amp then cost $1300 after those upgrades. Then imagine that the 3/4 potential is really more like 90%. Would that last 10% really have been worth another $300-400 when you struggled for a year to get to $900? That's like another half a year for you. 

Also, 22 years later, the amp still works. Maybe if it had been run at 100% potential, it may have only lasted 10 years. 

Think back to 1986, when you were still saving. Would you have wanted to save another $400 for upgrades back then? 

In 1987, where could your money have been better spent? What better amp could $900 have bought you?


----------



## DAT

WRX/Z28 said:


> Well, Imagine in 1987 how much that $50 worth of parts really cost. Then Imagine the amp then cost $1300 after those upgrades. Then imagine that the 3/4 potential is really more like 90%. Would that last 10% really have been worth another $300-400 when you struggled for a year to get to $900? That's like another half a year for you.
> 
> Also, 22 years later, the amp still works. Maybe if it had been run at 100% potential, it may have only lasted 10 years.
> 
> Think back to 1986, when you were still saving. Would you have wanted to save another $400 for upgrades back then?
> 
> In 1987, where could your money have been better spent? What better amp could $900 have bought you?


Thats funny! 

oh funny thing is quite a few guys that compete in IASCA have there amps upgraded with different parts to get that extra edge on the others.


Same thing LP does now.... if you didn't know about the upgrades you were still so freakin' happy, & nothing else was good enough against your LP's.


----------



## LinearPower

mjgonegm said:


> I have a few questions,
> 
> 1. This may be a stupid question, but what would LP amps be considers as? Class d, Class a, Etc...
> 
> 2. What are some "no-no's" to look for when buying LP amps?
> 
> 3. Does LP plan on making a new series of amps and if so would the prices be like?
> 
> 4. will there be a 3x sized shirt made? Or a 2x long? (I also think pre order would be a good idea)


1. Class A/B

2. Not following directions, deciding that we don't know what impedance we designed the amps to work with and choosing to run them as high current amps!

3. We will eventually have a newer line of products, currently we are just working at re-establishing production of the last products made. PA-2 Audiopath, XO-3, 2.2HV will be the first models

4. Just e-mail us at [email protected] with the subject line"T-shirt" and list size and number of shirts, once we have enough people asking we will get back to everyone with their order and a price. We will have a price in the next few days, of course we may be able to lower it if we get enough volume.


----------



## imjustjason

WRX/Z28 said:


> Well, Imagine in 1987 how much that $50 worth of parts really cost. Then Imagine the amp then cost $1300 after those upgrades. Then imagine that the 3/4 potential is really more like 90%. Would that last 10% really have been worth another $300-400 when you struggled for a year to get to $900? That's like another half a year for you.


Your going to have to explain to me how a few different parts (not extra parts, different ones) installed here and there during the manufacturing process can possibly add up to an extra $400. The mod only cost $175 in todays dollars, that's to go back into the amp and mod it after the fact. I honestly don't see how it could even get close to a $400 increase in '87.

Let me quote Ray about the percentage of power increase...



LinearPower said:


> The power increases are the least thing we or the customers are looking for in the mods, the power increases on most of the amp mods are from 10 to 30 percent increases.


10% is the low end of the spectrum. If it's only a 10% increase I doubt that people would be paying $175 for the mod now. 



WRX/Z28 said:


> Think back to 1986, when you were still saving. Would you have wanted to save another $400 for upgrades back then?


No, I wouldn't have wanted to pay $400 for an upgrade. I don't want to pay $175 for the mod now. My contention is that it should have been the best it could be to begin with and if that price tag was $1,300 then that's what I would have paid. 



WRX/Z28 said:


> In 1987, where could your money have been better spent? What better amp could $900 have bought you?


Thank you for making my point. I made the decision to buy what I thought was *the best I could get*. Only to find out 20 years later that there was a better amp available... the one I already had, modded.



WRX/Z28 said:


> Also, 22 years later, the amp still works. Maybe if it had been run at 100% potential, it may have only lasted 10 years.


Well, let me quote Ray himself again for this one...



LinearPower said:


> Just to clarify one thing that he said here, Linear Power NEVER pushes anything to its limit, we may add mods that take it to what we consider a safe limit, but WE WILL NOT effect RELIABLITY!!



Colin, I think you missed my point. I have accepted that mine could be better. The backstory was just to explain why it was so hard for me to accept. My point was, I like it the way it is. It just pissed me off in the beginning to find out that an amp I've loved for 20 years could have been better the whole time. 

I don't want to be argumentative, quite honestly I am over it and have wasted enough time on it. I just wanted to try to explain what I was meaning.

I understand the mods now. 6appeal, basslover, 06blkmustang, stevelpfreak and a few others guys have helped to make me understand them. I liken it to a Hypertech chip for a car. GM or whoever has to design a car for the entire country, every possible scenario: 0-120+ degress, varying humidities, different elevations, and several other conditions. The chip takes away all of those safeguards and makes more performance based on a specific application. The amps are the same way they were designed for a wide array of uses and end users. The amps are now modded for a specific application and make more power, plus the benefit of upgrading to current engineering for noise reduction.

*The main point of my original post was that I think any new product to come out of a Linear Power factory should be the best it can be out of the box.*


----------



## Oliver

Modding things can be fun !!

I love to modify anything....PSE compound bow, Remington model 700 { 30-06 ], vehicles , etc..,

prolly not as much fun and pissing and moaning like some girl though 

never really cared for whiners { sorry if you enjoy it ! }

Continue On ...


----------



## imjustjason

edit


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

SOmething has to be said about running these amps at part throttle.. That is the point Ray is trying to make... 

LP doesn't run the amps in such a way that they are constantly stressed.. where others do... This shows up in reliability and SOUND.. 

Take a big ass 2 stroke dirt bike and run it at half throttle... the thing will last forever (barring all things 2 stroke, this is an example) be decently quiet and has LOTS of reserve power... 

Now take the same bike and race it... Reeds burn up, maybe a seized piston.. 

The point is, you aren't getting everything out of the amp for a reason.. 

It's much like if you were to simply set your gain at 3/4 and left it there.. regardless of anything else... you lose headroom, you lose sound quality.. sure, you get a lot of power, but to what end... ?? 

I don't know about you guys, but, I'd rather NOT have a nuclear reactor sitting behind me.. lol.. (Think SS Class A, Orion HCCA)

Now that i'm on the LP path, I like it here.. lol..


----------



## imjustjason

So you run that WRX at part throttle?


----------



## [email protected]

I got a question, are the new linear power amps gonna use TO3's, I ask because T03's are inferior to plastic power devices, or according to many well known EE's. And seeing the examples of them I would have to agree, they say that the plastic power devices has more linearity, Ft (transition frequency) and gain versus current


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

imjustjason said:


> So you run that WRX at part throttle?



Most of the time, i've got PLENTY of headroom under the hood, sound quality is GREAT, too..... lol.. ... 

Do you run what you drive at full throttle?


----------



## WRX/Z28

imjustjason said:


> So you run that WRX at part throttle?




I don't think I missed your point. I got it. My point is that mod's today cost $150. Electronic components are insanely cheap now. This was not the case in 1987. I bet $150 worth of mod's could easily have been $400 if not more retail. (This would only take $200 difference in parts in 1987 dollars, this is in a time when a PC was 1/100000th of the machine they are today, for $2000+). 

Also, and I may be wrong on this, but it sounds like the mod's were probably not available, or tested to be safe in 1987. Hence why LP decided to run the amp at 3/4 potential. They were looking for these things to last, and they did. 

If you ask me, and modded amp that lasts 10 years instead of 20 is still not compromising reliability (btw noone including Ray can predict reliability with 100% certainty). Compromising reliability is an amp that blows up in 1 year +/-. 10 years is a good life for an amp. Most of us don't keep cars that long. 

Think of it like this. My WRX had a td04 turbo on it from the factory. It's a small turbo, and is only good to 240whp, and even that is after mods. 

Switching to a VF39 turbo is a good modest upgrade 300whp +/-. Subaru probably could have done this from the factory (it's actually just the turbo from the production STI), and I bet it would have cost them a negligable amount of money. Production costs on the turbo couldn't be that different. 

At the end of the day, they needed different levels of cars to allow different end costs to the consumer. There is still a markup to be made, even on their cost changes. I bet the markup on the sti is larger than on the wrx. The markup on the wrx is larger than the regular imprezza. They do this so they have a car for everyone, and they don't exclude customers with less money, but they give customers with more money a benefit for spending it. 

Also, if they had done the vf39 on the wrx's 2.0, it may only last 100k, while the td04'd motor could go for 200k. If you ask Cobb tuning, they'll tell you reliability is not compromised. Longevity might be. 


Don't take any of this personal. I see you're getting frustrated. We're not all going to agree about everything, but i'm trying to help you understand why it's done this way in many different products. Even take Samsungs LCD tv's for instance. All the 46" look the same, and probably don't cost samsung much difference to make, but they charge different prices for different performance levels. 

BTW, 95% of the time, I run my wrx at part throttle.  Full throttle 100% of the time is a recipe for breakage. 

My point is that if Ray comes out with a 2.2hv that is modded, and costs $750, and then says I also have a 2.2hv that's $500, but it only makes 90% of the power of the modded amp, I'd probably still go with the $500 2.2hv. I don't get as much bang for my buck with a $750 2.2hv at 700 watts as I do a $500 2.2hv at 600 watts. It seems that you would choose the $750 2.2hv, and that's why Ray will probably offer both. 

Again, don't take it personal, I have no qualms with you.


----------



## imjustjason

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Do you run what you drive at full throttle?


Sadly, no. I pretty much grandma everything.



WRX/Z28 said:


> BTW, 95% of the time, I run my wrx at part throttle.  Full throttle 100% of the time is a recipe for breakage.


But that last 5% is fun. What about the Z, that doesn't look to be set up for part throttle.



WRX/Z28 said:


> Don't take any of this personal. I see you're getting frustrated. We're not all going to agree about everything, but i'm trying to help you understand why it's done this way in many different products.
> 
> Again, don't take it personal, I have no qualms with you.


I'm not taking anything you say personal, that's not a problem, we're cool. A$$hole calling me a whiner for trying to explain myself I took very personal, and I have yet to get an answer from him as to why that happened. I may never get one, apparantly it's not just a clever username. 

I do understand why manufacturers release many different levels of a product. It's marketing for the masses, I get it. I just don't understand holding back, that's just not my mentality. I think everything should be done to the best of your / my ability and putting out an amp that only does 80% of what it can is not upholding that mentality. Like you say we don't have to agree.

I may get the 5002 modded just to see what all the hype is about. He doesn't do 3002's anymore so I can't mod that one. The other 6 or 7 I have are worth less than the mods so I won't mod any of those. The guys that have had the work done swear by them, so there must be something to it.


----------



## WRX/Z28

imjustjason said:


> But that last 5% is fun. What about the Z, that doesn't look to be set up for part throttle.


Actually I kept the overdrive trans and 3.55's to keep it cruiseable. I did overbuild it with a 9" though. That probably wasn't needed, but I'll never blow a rear again. lol

The Z is also set up for nitrous, but I won't be spraying it 100% of the time, that's another recipe for disaster.


----------



## imjustjason

WRX/Z28 said:


> The Z is also set up for nitrous, but I won't be spraying it 100% of the time, that's another recipe for disaster.


That's an understatement!


----------



## LinearPower

BeatsDownLow said:


> I got a question, are the new linear power amps gonna use TO3's, I ask because T03's are inferior to plastic power devices, or according to many well known EE's. And seeing the examples of them I would have to agree, they say that the plastic power devices has more linearity, Ft (transition frequency) and gain versus current


TO-3 is a case style to begin with, there can be many different types of transistors inside (including fets) for output devices they are NOT outdated, or inferior devices, anyone that says that probably wished they wre using them. Plastic case devices are more numerous and CHEAPER this is why most use them. The first thing about a TO-3 is that it has MUCH larger thermal footprint than a plastic case device, and this equates to heat being dissapated faster from the device, which means better performance, cooler operation which increases SQ, and LONGEVITY. 

The case style plastic or TO-3 metal have no effect on the actual transistor housed inside as far as what electrical specs they have, other than the cooling asspect.

Fets are more abundant in plastic cases which I imagine this is waht you are aluding to, which yes fets make better power supply switching devices, but NOT output devices. Probably all the new designed Linear Power amps will eventually use fet pwoer supplys, but we WILL stay with very high quality TO-3 output devices. 

We have NEVER been like everyone elses amp, and will continue this in the future, our products and what we have used in them are still in very high demand, as proof to how long outr product stay in the marketplace and what value they still carry with them. They are appreciated to be one of the highest SQ and reliable amps out there and we will continue the designs that has put us there.


----------



## [email protected]

LinearPower said:


> TO-3 is a case style to begin with, there can be many different types of transistors inside (including fets) for output devices they are NOT outdated, or inferior devices, anyone that says that probably wished they wre using them. Plastic case devices are more numerous and CHEAPER this is why most use them. The first thing about a TO-3 is that it has MUCH larger thermal footprint than a plastic case device, and this equates to heat being dissapated faster from the device, which means better performance, cooler operation which increases SQ, and LONGEVITY.
> 
> The case style plastic or TO-3 metal have no effect on the actual transistor housed inside as far as what electrical specs they have, other than the cooling asspect.
> 
> Fets are more abundant in plastic cases which I imagine this is waht you are aluding to, which yes fets make better power supply switching devices, but NOT output devices. Probably all the new designed Linear Power amps will eventually use fet pwoer supplys, but we WILL stay with very high quality TO-3 output devices.
> 
> We have NEVER been like everyone elses amp, and will continue this in the future, our products and what we have used in them are still in very high demand, as proof to how long outr product stay in the marketplace and what value they still carry with them. They are appreciated to be one of the highest SQ and reliable amps out there and we will continue the designs that has put us there.


I see, I was talking about the info that is provided by Stephen on Zeds website


----------



## 6APPEAL

WRX/Z28 said:


> If you ask me, and modded amp that lasts 10 years instead of 20 is still not compromising reliability (btw noone including Ray can predict reliability with 100% certainty). Compromising reliability is an amp that blows up in 1 year +/-. 10 years is a good life for an amp. Most of us don't keep cars that long.


One of my 5002's has been modded for at least 18 years, probably more but I can't remember exactly when I got it modded. How's that for not compromising reliability.



imjustjason said:


> I understand the mods now. 6appeal, basslover, 06blkmustang, stevelpfreak and a few others guys have helped to make me understand them.


I made the list.:surprised: I glad you understand, but getting you to see the point....

In the end, it boils down to one plain and simple fact. Linear Power is Ray's business. He will configure the product lineup how he chooses based on what product and services (mods, repairs, etc) will best benefit Linear Power. It would not be a service to build everything "all out" if cost became a prohibitive purchasing factor, thus causing LP to fail. Having the amps available at 2 price and performance points with the ability to upgrade at a later date makes sense to me.

By the way, I believe that 5002 mod cost me $300 way back when. And that was after paying $600 for the 5002 used!
John


----------



## DAT

imjustjason said:


> I may get the 5002 modded just to see what all the hype is about. He doesn't do 3002's anymore so I can't mod that one. The other 6 or 7 I have are worth less than the mods so I won't mod any of those. The guys that have had the work done swear by them, so there must be something to it.


Well which models do you have that your ready to get rid of?


----------



## imjustjason

6APPEAL said:


> I made the list.:surprised: I glad you understand, but getting you to see the point....
> 
> By the way, I believe that 5002 mod cost me $300 way back when. And that was after paying $600 for the 5002 used!
> John


You not just on the list... you're first on the list. Even worse. 

What mod do you have on your 5002? I might could be talked into trying the 8 ohm mono one if I knew more about final spec's.


----------



## ChrisB

imjustjason said:


> You not just on the list... you're first on the list. Even worse.
> 
> What mod do you have on your 5002? I might could be talked into trying the 8 ohm mono one if I knew more about final spec's.


Trust me, you really don't want to know about some of his 5002s and how much he spent on them. Then again, I hear kidneys are still worth something to someone who needs one real bad:laugh:


----------



## DAT

Can you guys check out this auction? The power wire seems to have 2 of them coming out? This is not like my 2202IQ.

what do you guys think?

ebay link


----------



## imjustjason

The wiring diagram shows two fuses. It must just have two leads.


----------



## baggedbirds

So whats your max bid 

I am watching that one.


----------



## ChrisB

Internally, my 1752 has two powers and two grounds but they were soldered into one larger wire for each that runs outside the case! This may be an early version of the 2202, which was the successor model to the 1752!

This is the only photo that somewhat shows what I am talking about:


----------



## 6APPEAL

imjustjason said:


> The wiring diagram shows two fuses. It must just have two leads.


Exactly. It's an older unit when they used to come with a pair of 10 ga power and a pair of 10 ga ground wires. All 1752's were that way. I believe they changed to a single power and ground when the IQ series of the 2202 came out.

The mods and updates will easily get you close to the specs listed for 4 ohm output of an stock 5002 into an 8 ohm load. The mods in my 5002's are $$$$'s of custom work. I know there are very few 5002's with mods like mine and only 1 (I think?) with mods done beyond mine (complete insanity:laugh. My 5002's specs fall between those of the 8002SW and the 4.1HV. The mods done to my 5002's will most likely not be replicated. I've never had a problem with my modded 5002's, but it's just easier to find an 8002SW or 4.1 for less $$$'s.
John


----------



## SUX 2BU

Looks like I found the right thread for my question lol

What is a decent (but not perfect by any means) 3002 worth these days? I was told it works. Heat sink is black with some scratches. If someone wants to buy it, I'll get it and sell it to you. Middle man? Yes. Hey, a recession is on 

What would you guys say an LP jacket is worth? My brother has one he bought new back around 1990 when he bought a purple 5002 and 2202 for his car. It's letterman style with black melton body, black leather sleeves, LINEAR POWER embroidered on the chest and the same Ear Candy logo as the pic above shows on the back as a large stitched-on patch and says Ear Candy or something like that above or below it. It's been a while since I've seen it. It's a really cool item though. Size is large I believe.


----------



## TrickyRicky

SUX 2BU said:


> Looks like I found the right thread for my question lol
> 
> What is a decent (but not perfect by any means) 3002 worth these days? I was told it works. Heat sink is black with some scratches. If someone wants to buy it, I'll get it and sell it to you. Middle man? Yes. Hey, a recession is on
> 
> What would you guys say an LP jacket is worth? My brother has one he bought new back around 1990 when he bought a purple 5002 and 2202 for his car. It's letterman style with black melton body, black leather sleeves, LINEAR POWER embroidered on the chest and the same Ear Candy logo as the pic above shows on the back as a large stitched-on patch and says Ear Candy or something like that above or below it. It's been a while since I've seen it. It's a really cool item though. Size is large I believe.


I've seen one sold on ebay for 305.00 but it was in mint condition. As for your jacket, if its new I would pay no more than 60.00. But thats just my budget.


----------



## TrickyRicky

DAT said:


> Can you guys check out this auction? The power wire seems to have 2 of them coming out? This is not like my 2202IQ.
> 
> what do you guys think?
> 
> ebay link


Yeah the 2202 has two 10 gauge power and ground wires. And the new version "IQ" has just one 6 gauge power and ground wire. I have two 2202IQ's and one 2202 and notice that right away.

But Ray has my 2202, his about to do a minor repair and also change the two power/ground wires to a single 6 gauge power/ground wire. So I know thats going to be sweet.


----------



## Oliver

The only thing the auction company will test is the routing number on your check 

If they get their monies everything works !


----------



## TrickyRicky

a$$hole said:


> The only thing the auction company will test is the routing number on your check
> 
> If they get their monies everything works !


Thats true most of the time. About 80% of the time, lol. When sellers on ebay start with "here say" like -"this is my brothers, so I dont know if it works"- or even "this is my husband and I dont know how to test it". Then why the hell dont you ask them they're right there by you, lol. Also now that theres a ton of LP on ebay, make sure to check the internal board, as most are damaged by improper use and then sloppy attempts to repair. Trust me, I have sent some pictures of some auctions to Ray and he notice right away that they've been tampered with by an idiot. 

So buyers beware. If seller doesnt know if the item works or if makes excuses like "I dont know how to test it or dont have the proper equipment" then you know somethings wrong.


----------



## LinearPower

BeatsDownLow said:


> I see, I was talking about the info that is provided by Stephen on Zeds website


A very good example of what can be put into a particular case style, Motorola (On Semiconductor) makes one of the best SQ output devices on the market that we had started using in the amps toward the end of original production, we will be using this same device again with new production. This device is offered in both TO-3 metal case packaging and in what is called TO-3P (large body plastic case), both have identical SQ and electrical specs EXCEPT the TO-3 Plastic is 25 watts less power than the TO-3 metal case. This device is also offered in a TO218 style device which is another plastic cased device smaller than the TO-3P but larger than a TO-220 device, the TO-218 makes 50 watts total power less than the TO-3 metal device. 

So you can't judge a device by what case it comes in, or how old the case style is, old does not make it bad, or inferior. 

To further the info on the thermal footprint of a device, the WHOLE metal bottom (basically the size of a half dollar)of the TO-3 metal case dissapates heat into the heatsink,(heat being the enemy to electronics, by way of SQ loss, efficiency loss, and thermal hot spots and premature failures, you want to avoid it as much as possible and keep your electronics as cool as possible) Where as a plastic case device has a thermal metal tab imbedded into the back of the transistor, this pad on a TO-220 style plastic case device is less than 1/4 the area as a TO-3 metal device, the TO-3P (the largest plastic cased device) has a thermal metal tab of only around 60 percent of the area of the TO_3 metal device, this is the reason that Motorola cannot develop the same output from the device as it can from the TO-3 metal device. 

Hope this explains some on transistor case technology.


----------



## tomtomjr

Jeanious2009 said:


> Thats true most of the time. About 80% of the time, lol. When sellers on ebay start with "here say" like -"this is my brothers, so I dont know if it works"- or even "this is my husband and I dont know how to test it". Then why the hell dont you ask them they're right there by you, lol. Also now that theres a ton of LP on ebay, make sure to check the internal board, as most are damaged by improper use and then sloppy attempts to repair. Trust me, I have sent some pictures of some auctions to Ray and he notice right away that they've been tampered with by an idiot.
> 
> So buyers beware. If seller doesnt know if the item works or if makes excuses like "I dont know how to test it or dont have the proper equipment" then you know somethings wrong.


Unless you are a techie, and know how to fix. I would say that about 1/3 of everything I buy on Ebay has an issue. I stay busy with my purchases long after the deal is done. Seems like the 1/3 of the sellers "forget" to tell you something. Just part of buying stuff out of peoples closets and garages. The real bad ones are "worked when it was taken out". Then it has a 2 inch hole burnt through the board. Your are right, buyer beware! Buy it like it needs work...


----------



## ChrisB

It is to the point where I expect my Old School amplifiers purchased on ebay to NOT work properly! As a result, I bid accordingly. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

This amp works:









Does anyone notice anything a little odd right off the bat?


----------



## tomtomjr

Just a guess...Two 1w Resistors in the back at the edge of the board almost look like they need help. Hard to tell from the pic, but that is what I see. Oh, and the rubber grommet mounts are missing too...


----------



## tomtomjr

I spy another thing... There is some funk all over the ceramic resistors and the cables. Someone spill a coke, roach poo, cap blow up??? Do I win the amp for guessing the correct answer?


----------



## azngotskills

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Does anyone notice anything a little odd right off the bat?


Are those black (ground?) wires capped??? 

BTW Hi Tom  LOL


----------



## tomtomjr

Hi Mark. 

My next guess is more of an observation. You have a set of vice-grips next to it. When I break out the vice grips on an amp, it usually has a serious issue. Like small fire, large fire, under water, ect. Then someone could have turned it up, used the amazing Linear Power speaker wires for welding leads and heli-arc'd the casing shut for fun. Then put it on Ebay for even more fun...:laugh: That is about my luck on there lately.


----------



## ChrisB

tomtomjr said:


> Just a guess...Two 1w Resistors in the back at the edge of the board almost look like they need help. Hard to tell from the pic, but that is what I see. Oh, and the rubber grommet mounts are missing too...





tomtomjr said:


> I spy another thing... There is some funk all over the ceramic resistors and the cables. Someone spill a coke, roach poo, cap blow up??? Do I win the amp for guessing the correct answer?


I figured it would be a little hard to tell from the photos. That amp was full of mold and mildew when I received it from Oskar Electronics out of California. I need to get some more high purity alcohol so I can finish cleaning it  If I had to guess, this was either recovered from a junkyard or left in high humidity storage because the mold and mildew is horrific.

Two of the T03s, which are hard to see in the photos, are GE/RCA variants and the speaker relay is NOT stock. If it is, then I am wrong. I just don't recall any of the 5002IQs using a solid black speaker relay.

Oh and Tom, I may need your help with replacing a resistor on an Orion 280 GX. Do you have a working one handy if I can't read the values off of mine? If not, I'll ask Perry Babin next.


----------



## ChrisB

tomtomjr said:


> Hi Mark.
> 
> My next guess is more of an observation. *You have a set of vice-grips next to it*. When I break out the vice grips on an amp, it usually has a serious issue. Like small fire, large fire, under water, ect. Then someone could have turned it up, used the amazing Linear Power speaker wires for welding leads and heli-arc'd the casing shut for fun. Then put it on Ebay for even more fun...:laugh: That is about my luck on there lately.


That is just my messy workbench:blush:


----------



## ca90ss

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Does anyone notice anything a little odd right off the bat?


I recognize that amp. If you really want to get pissed pull the board out and look at the bottom side.


Here's what it looked like when I got it (I'm not the one who sold it to you on ebay).


----------



## tomtomjr

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Oh and Tom, I may need your help with replacing a resistor on an Orion 280 GX. Do you have a working one handy if I can't read the values off of mine? If not, I'll ask Perry Babin next.


Got an Orion 4100 GX here which is a pair of 280GX in the same case. This was another (works great when last used), and charged $375 shipped for it. Fixable, but needs about a dozen 2n6488's. Power light
comes on too. Never been worked on before. Clean board. Let me know where the resistor is, and I will email you a pic. PM your email address.


----------



## ChrisB

ca90ss said:


> I recognize that amp. If you really want to get pissed pull the board out and look at the bottom side.
> 
> 
> Here's what it looked like when I got it (I'm not the one who sold it to you on ebay).


Uh oh, now my curiosity has the best of me Be back later after I pull the board


----------



## ca90ss

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> That amp was full of mold and mildew when I received it from Oskar Electronics out of California.


I'm pretty sure that's electrolyte from the original caps that blew. I never got around to fully cleaning it before it got traded away.



> the speaker relay is NOT stock. If it is, then I am wrong. I just don't recall any of the 5002IQs using a solid black speaker relay.


I replaced that because the original had melted. It has the same voltage and current characteristics as the original.


----------



## imjustjason

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Oh and Tom, I may need your help with replacing a resistor on an Orion 280 GX. Do you have a working one handy if I can't read the values off of mine? If not, I'll ask Perry Babin next.


I've got a 280 and a GS1000 (the gold version of the 280) I can look at if you need me to.


----------



## LinearPower

SUX 2BU said:


> Looks like I found the right thread for my question lol
> 
> What is a decent (but not perfect by any means) 3002 worth these days? I was told it works. Heat sink is black with some scratches. If someone wants to buy it, I'll get it and sell it to you. Middle man? Yes. Hey, a recession is on
> 
> What would you guys say an LP jacket is worth? My brother has one he bought new back around 1990 when he bought a purple 5002 and 2202 for his car. It's letterman style with black melton body, black leather sleeves, LINEAR POWER embroidered on the chest and the same Ear Candy logo as the pic above shows on the back as a large stitched-on patch and says Ear Candy or something like that above or below it. It's been a while since I've seen it. It's a really cool item though. Size is large I believe.


I would be intereested in it, my personal one was stolen years ago. Email me at [email protected]


----------



## tomtomjr

Ok, here is a question. (I looked through here first, but did not see where it was answered). How can you tell if an amp has been modded by Ray? I have a few LP amps, but not an LP expert. Have some real nice ones too. Anyway...Is it just the op-amp BB conversion that I need to look for? Or is there something that says "modded by TIPS" on the board? Or what do I look for? Might have some modded amps here and not know it...


----------



## LinearPower

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I figured it would be a little hard to tell from the photos. That amp was full of mold and mildew when I received it from Oskar Electronics out of California. I need to get some more high purity alcohol so I can finish cleaning it  If I had to guess, this was either recovered from a junkyard or left in high humidity storage because the mold and mildew is horrific.
> 
> Two of the T03s, which are hard to see in the photos, are GE/RCA variants and the speaker relay is NOT stock. If it is, then I am wrong. I just don't recall any of the 5002IQs using a solid black speaker relay.
> 
> Oh and Tom, I may need your help with replacing a resistor on an Orion 280 GX. Do you have a working one handy if I can't read the values off of mine? If not, I'll ask Perry Babin next.



Speaker relays can be solid black, but most were the clear housing. We did use a few black ones though.


----------



## LinearPower

tomtomjr said:


> Ok, here is a question. (I looked through here first, but did not see where it was answered). How can you tell if an amp has been modded by Ray? I have a few LP amps, but not an LP expert. Have some real nice ones too. Anyway...Is it just the op-amp BB conversion that I need to look for? Or is there something that says "modded by TIPS" on the board? Or what do I look for? Might have some modded amps here and not know it...


Depends on the model as to waht was done, also depends on how long ago it was modified, we have modified thinks for almost 20 years, the mods have changed over time according to new knowledge and new parts.

I can usually tell from pictures if you have any.

There are some copycats out tryingto do work and butchering the amps too, BE CAREFUL. I have had to put several back right, then do the correct mods.

No Burr Browns are no all of the mod, and in most products they are not even used.


----------



## ca90ss

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> I think we have addressed simular questions on the product in earlier posts, but the product WILL maintain the original sound quality and design principles, TO-3's will still be used in the larger products just as they always have, power supply transistors may change to fet devices in some of the products but all output devices will remain TO-3.


So will they be mounted in the same way or will the mounting method be improved to something like the monolithic or tru pictured below? I'm not saying the heatsink on either is better than the lp but the transistor mounting definitely is.



















> We already have designs on the next generation of product which include some of the improvements of the modifications. The modifications ARE NOT all about POWER, they are more greatly dealing with sound quality, and keeping reliability the same or better. WE DO NOT MAKE HAND GRANADES like some companies have in the past. The power increases are the least thing we or the customers are looking for in the mods, the power increases on most of the amp mods are from 10 to 30 percent increases. As far heat, Linear Power has always over built everything, including the heat sink, Linear Power originally designed the heat sink with more heat sink area per watt than any other manufacturer. There is more than enough heat sink to dissapate the extra heat. We have been doing mods for over 10 years for customers and have many many modified products out there and have never had a complaint on heat. You can check our customer comment page at Linear Power, Inc. - For The Love Of Music there are customers that have left contact infor to answer questions.


So what about those claiming 2kw from a 5002?



> As far as putting every mod in a product, hey no good card player shows all of his cards! We have to have additional things for the future, as well as, as pricey as the amps are, we don't want to drive the price even higher on the standard line. Thats why manufacturers give you choices, say such as a base model Mustang, A Mustang Cobra, or a Carol Shelby Mustang. Same basic car different packages at differeent prices for different peoples needs.
> 
> Part prices ae not the only cost to consider in a product, enigneering and design time has to be paid for in ANY product. The price does go up with additional technology.


We're not talking about a ford here. You're marketing a premium product at a premium price to match. I don't see a ton of people running out to mod their ferrari. I'm not talking about mods on older amps, I'm talking about the new models. If you already have the mods in mind then the engineering is already done and if you're stuffing blank boards then it's not like there's any extra work involved and the price difference with substituting part a for part b is minimal.


----------



## LinearPower

ca90ss said:


> I'm pretty sure that's electrolyte from the original caps that blew. I never got around to fully cleaning it before it got traded away.
> 
> 
> I replaced that because the original had melted. It has the same voltage and current characteristics as the original.


The mold and mildew is from the center storage caps blowing from VERY bad electrical system voltage, excess AC ripple from over charging alternator and bad/weak battery system. The transformer is going to multiple voltage in the 5002 by a factor of 10, it is going to also multiply AC ripple that is not getting filtered out by the same amount, which can over load the storage caps and blow them, the 12 volt input filter cap toward the end of the pwoer supply in the amp is probably bad too if it has not been changed.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



ca90ss said:


> So will they be mounted in the same way or will the mounting method be improved to something like the monolithic or tru pictured below? I'm not saying the heatsink on either is better than the lp but the transistor mounting definitely is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about those claiming 2kw from a 5002?
> 
> 
> 
> We're not talking about a ford here. You're marketing a premium product at a premium price to match. I don't see a ton of people running out to mod their ferrari. I'm not talking about mods on older amps, I'm talking about the new models. If you already have the mods in mind then the engineering is already done and if you're stuffing blank boards then it's not like there's any extra work involved and the price difference with substituting part a for part b is minimal.


There is nothing superior about the TO-3 mounted thru the top, its just cosmetic, as well as dangerous, the TO-3 metal can on 4.1HVS is 160 volts AC if you touch across it to ground.... WELL you get the point. As well as you have shaved heat dissapation away removing the hest sink fins. 

Yeah, it looks cool, yeah we havea couple heatsinks cut out like that anyway, but putting it into use--- I don't know yet.

I have no idea those claiming 2k watts on a 5002, your asking he wrong person, you need to ask them, I have never stated that. They may be claiming peak or max power, which we have gone over also, and we do not like measuring by those procedures.

Other than that, everything about production and mods has been addressed, I will not be adding to that subject, it is well covered.


----------



## ChrisB

LinearPower said:


> Depends on the model as to waht was done, also depends on how long ago it was modified, we have modified thinks for almost 20 years, the mods have changed over time according to new knowledge and new parts.
> 
> I can usually tell from pictures if you have any.
> 
> There are some copycats out tryingto do work and butchering the amps too, BE CAREFUL. I have had to put several back right, then do the correct mods.
> 
> No Burr Browns are no all of the mod, and in most products they are not even used.


I may replace capacitors, FETS, resistors, and diodes, but I am not down with re-wrapping torrids and re-biasing amplifiers. Don't worry Ray, you are the only one who will be doing my mods

You did this one for me not too long ago:









Sorry for the crappy pic, but that is the only one I can find right now.


----------



## ca90ss

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



LinearPower said:


> There is nothing superior about the TO-3 mounted thru the top, its just cosmetic, as well as dangerous, the TO-3 metal can on 4.1HVS is 160 volts AC if you touch across it to ground.... WELL you get the point. As well as you have shaved heat dissapation away removing the hest sink fins.


I'm mostly pointing out that they're mounted directly to the heatsink and not to a thin piece of aluminum with a contact area of only 5/16" between that and the heatsink. I couldn't care less if they're on the top bottom or sides.





> I have no idea those claiming 2k watts on a 5002, your asking he wrong person, you need to ask them, I have never stated that. They may be claiming peak or max power, which we have gone over also, and we do not like measuring by those procedures.


I'll do some digging and get some quotes for you.



> Other than that, everything about production and mods has been addressed, I will not be adding to that subject, it is well covered.


Not really but whatever.


----------



## imjustjason

I think he believes the bashing I've been taking over it the past couple of days has covered it.


----------



## ChrisB

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



ca90ss said:


> I'll do some digging and get some quotes for you.


It may have been me misquoting someone else. AFAIK, the 5002 will produce about 850 watts RMS @ 8 ohms after modification with a 1,600 to 1,750 peak output. My sorry 13w6v2 doesn't seem to like much more than 600 watts RMS so I am just going to leave my blue 5002 stock for the time being.


----------



## ca90ss

Here we go.


6APPEAL said:


> Two of my 5002's have some special, custom mods done to them. Needless to say, subs have a hard time keeping up with the now 2000+ watts they produce (before clipping)!
> John


----------



## ca90ss

imjustjason said:


> I think he believes the bashing I've been taking over it the past couple of days has covered it.


Oh, I was looking for first hand info and not speculation from others.


----------



## LinearPower

ca90ss said:


> Here we go.


If you will read better he does say 2 5002's, combined power would be around this figure, max or peak power would be even higher.


----------



## LinearPower

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I may replace capacitors, FETS, resistors, and diodes, but I am not down with re-wrapping torrids and re-biasing amplifiers. Don't worry Ray, you are the only one who will be doing my mods
> 
> You did this one for me not too long ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the crappy pic, but that is the only one I can find right now.


Its all cool


----------



## imjustjason

ca90ss said:


> Oh, I was looking for *first hand info *and not *speculation from others*.


There's plenty of the second and not much of the first.


----------



## ca90ss

LinearPower said:


> If you will read better he does say 2 5002's, combined power would be around this figure, max or peak power would be even higher.


Here's another one. Looking at the quote it doesn't sound like combined power to me. Looks like a claim of 2kw each.


6APPEAL said:


> My 5002's all put out over 2000 watts mono


----------



## LinearPower

imjustjason said:


> I think he believes the bashing I've been taking over it the past couple of days has covered it.



All I'm saying is why re-hash the same stuff again. Just becasue a different person is going to take up a torch and start it again doesn't mean it is going to be any different. It is a turn off for people to waste space on here for repeated re-hashing. I come to here to chat and enough has been said on the subject, why does anyone still want to carry it on. I feel everyone has come to an understanding. This should be a nice place to share and chat, once something is said leave it be. If the site is going to be like this everyday, it will be without my presence I have better things to do. Sorry you have been bashed too.


----------



## LinearPower

ca90ss said:


> Here's another one. Looking at the quote it doesn't sound like combined power to me. Looks like a claim of 2kw each.


Speak to him, don't addresss me on it. The other gentleman is correct on the power specs, (850-900 with peaks of 1700-1800) he is recieving. I have no idea what power or testing figure is in the mind of 6appeal. he may be speaking of peak pwoer when he says the yall make over 2k, but the first qoute youo sent me sounds more like he is saying 2 5002 doing 2k together.

I have tweeked a few amps for the more specific impedance of 8 ohms with no possibility of 4 ohm use, that will develop a little more power than the regular mod, but they DO NOT DO 2K RMS, around 2K peaks but not RMS.


----------



## vjgli

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



6APPEAL said:


> Stock 2.2 vs stock 5002, run mono will be pretty close. The 2.2 will draw less current due to it's more efficient power supply at the same power level (40 vs 60).
> John


Just for curiosity, how is the 2.2 more efficient? Wasn't that a simple marketing ploy back in the days to meet IASCA power rating? it has been very long so my memory is little bit cloudy.


----------



## ca90ss

LinearPower said:


> All I'm saying is why re-hash the same stuff again. Just becasue a different person is going to take up a torch and start it again doesn't mean it is going to be any different. It is a turn off for people to waste space on here for repeated re-hashing. I come to here to chat and enough has been said on the subject, why does anyone still want to carry it on. I feel everyone has come to an understanding. This should be a nice place to share and chat, once something is said leave it be. If the site is going to be like this everyday, it will be without my presence I have better things to do. Sorry you have been bashed too.


I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just trying to get a clear and direct answer from the source. I'm sorry if that's asking too much, I'll rely on 2nd hand info from now on.



LinearPower said:


> Speak to him, don't addresss me on it. The other gentleman is correct on the power specs, (850-900 with peaks of 1700-1800) he is recieving. I have no idea what power or testing figure is in the mind of 6appeal. he may be speaking of peak pwoer when he says the yall make over 2k, but the first qoute youo sent me sounds more like he is saying 2 5002 doing 2k together.


I can see how the first quote could be taken that way and that's why I included the 2nd as well. I just figured since you were the one who mods them you would have an idea of what they're capable of but that's fine, I'll direct any further questions on the subject to the ones making the claims.



> they DO NOT DO 2K RMS, around 2K peaks but not RMS.


That's all I wanted to know.


----------



## vjgli

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> It may have been me misquoting someone else. AFAIK, the 5002 will produce about 850 watts RMS @ 8 ohms after modification with a 1,600 to 1,750 peak output. My sorry 13w6v2 doesn't seem to like much more than 600 watts RMS so I am just going to leave my blue 5002 stock for the time being.


after searching, I found the power supply transistor are 2N5302
with limitation of only 30amps each. You can get a TO-220 with 110A each.
Less than 1/2 the size but with much bigger Die.
I think these are Bi-polar power supply might be very outdated for any mobile application now days. The efficiency must be between 30%-40%?
All in all, the amp looks very solid.


----------



## imjustjason

SO! Say a man wanted to get his 5002 (not IQ) to produce 1,000w into 8 ohms mono, would the $175 mod get me that or is that particular mod more?



LinearPower said:


> Sorry you have been bashed too.


Bygones!!! Let's move on.


----------



## vjgli

LinearPower said:


> TO-3 is a case style to begin with, there can be many different types of transistors inside (including fets) for output devices they are NOT outdated, or inferior devices, anyone that says that probably wished they wre using them. Plastic case devices are more numerous and CHEAPER this is why most use them. The first thing about a TO-3 is that it has MUCH larger thermal footprint than a plastic case device, and this equates to heat being dissapated faster from the device, which means better performance, cooler operation which increases SQ, and LONGEVITY.
> 
> The case style plastic or TO-3 metal have no effect on the actual transistor housed inside as far as what electrical specs they have, other than the cooling asspect.
> 
> Fets are more abundant in plastic cases which I imagine this is waht you are aluding to, which yes fets make better power supply switching devices, but NOT output devices. Probably all the new designed Linear Power amps will eventually use fet pwoer supplys, but we WILL stay with very high quality TO-3 output devices.
> 
> We have NEVER been like everyone elses amp, and will continue this in the future, our products and what we have used in them are still in very high demand, as proof to how long outr product stay in the marketplace and what value they still carry with them. They are appreciated to be one of the highest SQ and reliable amps out there and we will continue the designs that has put us there.


I am gonna call out BULL ****! TO-3 or TO-218 comes in numerous die sizes. Working in Pro, we sure used many variations of them. To simply state TO-3 are superior to plastics is an ignorant statement. I agree that they are reliable but so are many of the plastics now days.
MJ15022 is 200v device with 16A current capability. SOA for this part is good for about 180w. Your amp thermal delivery system from TO-3 to heatsink simply is subpar. A piece of metal barely touching the heatsink is all you get. Ofcourse you have to use the TO-3 to handle the excess abuse those things must handle. Just because the heat cannot escape fast enough.

Now take a look at NJL4281D (TO-264) 350v device with 15A rating. SOA for this part is above 200w and with bigger die I may add.
This puppy even has thermal tracking built-in. So your bias will be always on target no matter what the temperature of the amp is. The die is much bigger and footprint is very large as well.

We still use TO-3 devices but simply saying TO-3 are the best is sheer nonsense.


----------



## WRX/Z28

vjgli said:


> I am gonna call out BULL ****! TO-3 or TO-218 comes in numerous die sizes. Working in Pro, we sure used many variations of them. To simply state TO-3 are superior to plastics is an ignorant statement. I agree that they are reliable but so are many of the plastics now days.
> MJ15022 is 200v device with 16A current capability. SOA for this part is good for about 180w. Your amp thermal delivery system from TO-3 to heatsink simply is subpar. A piece of metal barely touching the heatsink is all you get. Ofcourse you have to use the TO-3 to handle the excess abuse those things must handle. Just because the heat cannot escape fast enough.
> 
> Now take a look at NJL4281D (TO-264) 350v device with 15A rating. SOA for this part is above 200w and with bigger die I may add.
> This puppy even has thermal tracking built-in. So your bias will be always on target no matter what the temperature of the amp is. The die is much bigger and footprint is very large as well.
> 
> We still use TO-3 devices but simply saying TO-3 are the best is sheer nonsense.


 Did you even read what you quoted?


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



vjgli said:


> after searching, I found the power supply transistor are 2N5302
> with limitation of only 30amps each. You can get a TO-220 with 110A each.
> Less than 1/2 the size but with much bigger Die.
> I think these are Bi-polar power supply might be very outdated for any mobile application now days. The efficiency must be between 30%-40%?
> All in all, the amp looks very solid.



If you will look at my other posts, we agree fets are better for power supply, but not for output devices. And No the amps are not 30 or 40 percent efficient they are in the 60-62 percent range. The later power supplies (all HV series, 8002SW, and 4753IQ) combined the best of both worlds with a PROPRIETARY pwoer supply design, using our FMB (Fixed Modulation Block) which allowed us to continue using the TO-3 Bi-polar transistor for reliability and have it run like a fet. This was a hybrid power supply design which used the FMB and a pair of reference fets that ran the TO-3 transistors at the switching speeds of fets.

110 amps is fine but was not needed for the capability of the amp, they far exceeded what we ever claimed the amp to do anyway.

Our new power supply designs will be using different power supply technology than used in the past, but it will be sometime before we change that. Again all of this is discussed in a earlier post in this thread.


----------



## LinearPower

vjgli said:


> I am gonna call out BULL ****! TO-3 or TO-218 comes in numerous die sizes. Working in Pro, we sure used many variations of them. To simply state TO-3 are superior to plastics is an ignorant statement. I agree that they are reliable but so are many of the plastics now days.
> MJ15022 is 200v device with 16A current capability. SOA for this part is good for about 180w. Your amp thermal delivery system from TO-3 to heatsink simply is subpar. A piece of metal barely touching the heatsink is all you get. Ofcourse you have to use the TO-3 to handle the excess abuse those things must handle. Just because the heat cannot escape fast enough.
> 
> Now take a look at NJL4281D (TO-264) 350v device with 15A rating. SOA for this part is above 200w and with bigger die I may add.
> This puppy even has thermal tracking built-in. So your bias will be always on target no matter what the temperature of the amp is. The die is much bigger and footprint is very large as well.
> 
> The amps speak for themselves, they have out survived most any other brand of amp for longiviety, and the demand for the product STILL speaks for itself! The whole product speaks for itself. We are well aware of the connection between the rails and the case, but there again it has never caused an issue, but we are making new heat sink dies with a larger area there, we have to make new dies anyway so we are increasing this area while doing it..
> 
> As well, I spoke of the thermal effeicency of the case design, the TO-3 has a larger thermal footprint than a TO-3P, or a TO218, and therefore can dissapate the most heat. THAT IS FACT, its physics! The internals of the devices can be many different things, and do many diifferent functions with many different specs.
> 
> The transistor I spoke of is a very high quality SQ output device which is a MJ21193/MJ21194, the TO-3P plastic case counterpart is a MJL21193/MJL21194, these are also made in a TO-218 device, each of those has a LOWER output capability due to the heat dissapation of the device is NOT as great as the TO-3 metal case. AGAIN FACT FROM THE MANUFACTURER (Motorola) SO HOLLAR ALL YOUR ******** you want to. I will not reply to any more ******** emails like this. I do not appreciate being called ********. GOOD BYE!!!!!
> 
> We still use TO-3 devices but simply saying TO-3 are the best is sheer nonsense.


You have taken what I said out of context and with no regard to the rest of my post or posts. People like you want to cause dissent and issues. You are the ignorant one for not reading and stating what I worte in it's entire context.


----------



## LinearPower

*Re: More Linear Power from our favorite seller*



vjgli said:


> Just for curiosity, how is the 2.2 more efficient? Wasn't that a simple marketing ploy back in the days to meet IASCA power rating? it has been very long so my memory is little bit cloudy.



The 2.2HV, 3.2HV, 4.1HVS, 4753IQ and 8002SW use a totally different power supply design that increases the efficiency of the circuit, it is a fet driven bi-polar design, there is NO marketing ploys behind it.


----------



## chad

lol SQ output device......


----------



## chad

LinearPower said:


> SO HOLLAR ALL YOUR ******** you want to. I will not reply to any more ******** emails like this..


Quoting fail

Did he e-mail you or post on a forum?


----------



## LinearPower

chad said:


> Quoting fail
> 
> Did he e-mail you or post on a forum?


Some how my response and his post ran together


Originally Posted by vjgli 
I am gonna call out BULL ****! TO-3 or TO-218 comes in numerous die sizes. Working in Pro, we sure used many variations of them. To simply state TO-3 are superior to plastics is an ignorant statement. I agree that they are reliable but so are many of the plastics now days.
MJ15022 is 200v device with 16A current capability. SOA for this part is good for about 180w. Your amp thermal delivery system from TO-3 to heatsink simply is subpar. A piece of metal barely touching the heatsink is all you get. Ofcourse you have to use the TO-3 to handle the excess abuse those things must handle. Just because the heat cannot escape fast enough.

Now take a look at NJL4281D (TO-264) 350v device with 15A rating. SOA for this part is above 200w and with bigger die I may add.
This puppy even has thermal tracking built-in. So your bias will be always on target no matter what the temperature of the amp is. The die is much bigger and footprint is very large as well.


----------



## DAT

I hope none of you piss off "RAY" where he decides to leave this forum. I'd hate to .... umm lets just say.... #$%%^^

Please don't.



I enjoy reading about the improvements he can do, oh bye the way I know a guy that fried a TRU amp by grounding out the TO-3 by accident with a screwdriver.. or that is what he said when he showed me the broken amp.


----------



## chad

LinearPower said:


> Some how my response and his post ran together


It's a *****, you gotta do a lotta copy/pasting.

It ain't like the usenet days unfortunately


----------



## WRX/Z28

DAT said:


> I hope none of you piss off "RAY" where he decides to leave this forum. I'd hate to .... umm lets just say.... #$%%^^
> 
> Please don't..


I agree! Keep this civil. The BS call out was just ridiculous. 




DAT said:


> I enjoy reading about the improvements he can do, oh bye the way I know a guy that fried a TRU amp by grounding out the TO-3 by accident with a screwdriver.. or that is what he said when he showed me the broken amp.


I don't see how. They're covered by plexi windows. I call BS!!! :laugh:


----------



## chad

DAT said:


> I know a guy that fried a TRU amp by grounding out the TO-3 by accident with a screwdriver.. or that is what he said when he showed me the broken amp.


You oughta see what happens when a person decides to get a piece of bar bunny out of the side of a crown grounded bridge amp with a greenie (greenie is a small xcelite screwdriver often used as giveaways that have a green handle)


----------



## ChrisB

chad said:


> You oughta see what happens when a person decides to get a piece of bar bunny out of the side of a crown grounded bridge amp with a greenie (greenie is a small xcelite screwdriver often used as giveaways that have a green handle)


You should have seen the look on the face of one of my friends when I blew CO2 directly into a Peavey CS-1200 that went into thermal protect. I turned to him and said "ONE - NEVER do this yourself and TWO - *DO NOT* tell Jason (the owner of the setup) that I did this to his amp!"


----------



## TrickyRicky

LinearPower said:


> Some how my response and his post ran together
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by vjgli
> I am gonna call out BULL ****! TO-3 or TO-218 comes in numerous die sizes. Working in Pro, we sure used many variations of them. To simply state TO-3 are superior to plastics is an ignorant statement. I agree that they are reliable but so are many of the plastics now days.
> MJ15022 is 200v device with 16A current capability. SOA for this part is good for about 180w. Your amp thermal delivery system from TO-3 to heatsink simply is subpar. A piece of metal barely touching the heatsink is all you get. Ofcourse you have to use the TO-3 to handle the excess abuse those things must handle. Just because the heat cannot escape fast enough.
> 
> Now take a look at NJL4281D (TO-264) 350v device with 15A rating. SOA for this part is above 200w and with bigger die I may add.
> This puppy even has thermal tracking built-in. So your bias will be always on target no matter what the temperature of the amp is. The die is much bigger and footprint is very large as well.


Ray, dont worry about that vjgli guy. He is just mad that Linear Power is still the best and that his crappy company uses $0.10 mosfets. Some people are just stubborn like using a 1-ohm load to an amp instead of a 8-ohm load. So, trust me, there's more people here that enjoy having you here and listening to what you have to say to those trying to argue with you with non-sense. Thanks.


----------



## chad

Woah, Woah, woah, he had a viable argument and I ALSO agree that WAY too much excitement is put into a damn transistor case design. Many points were made, ALL VIABLE if you don't know the numbers or can add to the comments then don't jump on a bandwagon. 

Lets look at a few points:

Vjgli stated that there are many great plastic case transistors out there, and there are, in fact there are more continuing to come, the TO3 transistor is not as popular as they used to be and a majority of transistor designers are not concentrating on this case design as opposed to newer technology in plastic cases such as thermal tracking as stated. Hell, 5 years ago when I was getting out of the hard-core design/repair league it was rumored that the TO3 design is going away. Many designers switched. Failure rates really did not change, if not they improved because people were forced to re-think their heatsinks and cooling schemes!

Ray had the rebuttal of a Moto device that comes in 2 packages, each package has the same voltage and current specs EXCEPT that the plastic case has 50 watts less power dissipation, an EXCELLENT example BTW. Look folks, do you know what power dissipation is? It's the ability to shag-off the power that is NOT passed onto the speaker and is generated in heat. That given, for the same efficiency of device it becomes PAINFULLY evident that if you are designing an amplifier around that last 50 watts of power dissipation then you are a poor amplifier designer, I'm sure both parties will agree.

I have repaired THOUSANDS of amplifiers, both with plastic cases and TO3 devices, probably 50/50 each and if I were to say that the TO3 devices suffered a higher failure rate would it be taken well? No it would not, but it's true. Do I discredit this case design? NO!!!! because there's a LOT more to amplifier design than the damn case of a transistor, a LOT MORE, that's not rocket science. That aforementioned 50 watts of dissipation could be eaten up REALLY quick with an inferior heat sink design 

In other words, if you like shiny metal cases, fine, rock them, does a TO3 have slightly better power dissapation? Yes. Does it make THAT much of a difference? NO! Not if you can design a proper amplifier. I would NEVER use transistor case design to sell an amp, if the design calls for that case, then rock them, if you lineup calls for a plastic case then by all means. But to SPECIFICALLY design an amp around a TO3 device which is of aging technology and tout that as a merit is insane. Conversely to retrofit a TO3 designed amp to accept plastic devices (and I've seen it) is even more insane, on an epic scale. Reliability has little to nothing to do with transistor case design, it lies on the hands of the amplifier designer.

That's about as middle ground as I can be. If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay on the porch and watch. Don't jump a bandwagon.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

chad said:


> Woah, Woah, woah, he had a viable argument and I ALSO agree that WAY too much excitement is put into a damn transistor case design. Many points were made, ALL VIABLE if you don't know the numbers or can add to the comments then don't jump on a bandwagon.
> 
> Lets look at a few points:
> 
> Vjgli stated that there are many great plastic case transistors out there, and there are, in fact there are more continuing to come, the TO3 transistor is not as popular as they used to be and a majority of transistor designers are not concentrating on this case design as opposed to newer technology in plastic cases such as thermal tracking as stated. Hell, 5 years ago when I was getting out of the hard-core design/repair league it was rumored that the TO3 design is going away. Many designers switched. Failure rates really did not change, if not they improved because people were forced to re-think their heatsinks and cooling schemes!
> 
> Ray had the rebuttal of a Moto device that comes in 2 packages, each package has the same voltage and current specs EXCEPT that the plastic case has 50 watts less power dissipation, an EXCELLENT example BTW. Look folks, do you know what power dissipation is? It's the ability to shag-off the power that is NOT passed onto the speaker and is generated in heat. That given, for the same efficiency of device it becomes PAINFULLY evident that if you are designing an amplifier around that last 50 watts of power dissipation then you are a poor amplifier designer, I'm sure both parties will agree.
> 
> I have repaired THOUSANDS of amplifiers, both with plastic cases and TO3 devices, probably 50/50 each and if I were to say that the TO3 devices suffered a higher failure rate would it be taken well? No it would not, but it's true. Do I discredit this case design? NO!!!! because there's a LOT more to amplifier design than the damn case of a transistor, a LOT MORE, that's not rocket science. That aforementioned 50 watts of dissipation could be eaten up REALLY quick with an inferior heat sink design
> 
> In other words, if you like shiny metal cases, fine, rock them, does a TO3 have slightly better power dissapation? Yes. Does it make THAT much of a difference? NO! Not if you can design a proper amplifier. I would NEVER use transistor case design to sell an amp, if the design calls for that case, then rock them, if you lineup calls for a plastic case then by all means. But to SPECIFICALLY design an amp around a TO3 device which is of aging technology and tout that as a merit is insane. Conversely to retrofit a TO3 designed amp to accept plastic devices (and I've seen it) is even more insane, on an epic scale. Reliability has little to nothing to do with transistor case design, it lies on the hands of the amplifier designer.
> 
> That's about as middle ground as I can be. If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay on the porch and watch. Don't jump a bandwagon.



Thank you for that... 

Is it forgotten that LP ALSO uses plastic cased devices... (see post 367 above)

Lets not forget the fact that the amps *aren't* running in a highly stressed regime.. so, overall heat dissipation isn't the highest of factors.. Most claim they hardly break a sweat even after long periods of "pounding".. what's this say.. ? 

Why can't the fact that the amps are just WAY over built (to within reason) and way under-rated, be excepted? 

It ****ing feels like someone is on trial and there are 5 different lawyers grilling a defendant(one steps down, another steps up to continue)... Ray does not have to defend ANYTHING... The reputation and track records speaks for itself... *If you don't like a flat rate for repair or mods, don't use the amp... simple... Sell them, there are plenty of people that will gladly buy them from you and be happy about doing so... *

How many of you see using a Alpine PDX 20yrs from now.. ??


----------



## [email protected]

chad said:


> Woah, Woah, woah, he had a viable argument and I ALSO agree that WAY too much excitement is put into a damn transistor case design. Many points were made, ALL VIABLE if you don't know the numbers or can add to the comments then don't jump on a bandwagon.
> 
> Lets look at a few points:
> 
> Vjgli stated that there are many great plastic case transistors out there, and there are, in fact there are more continuing to come, the TO3 transistor is not as popular as they used to be and a majority of transistor designers are not concentrating on this case design as opposed to newer technology in plastic cases such as thermal tracking as stated. Hell, 5 years ago when I was getting out of the hard-core design/repair league it was rumored that the TO3 design is going away. Many designers switched. Failure rates really did not change, if not they improved because people were forced to re-think their heatsinks and cooling schemes!
> 
> Ray had the rebuttal of a Moto device that comes in 2 packages, each package has the same voltage and current specs EXCEPT that the plastic case has 50 watts less power dissipation, an EXCELLENT example BTW. Look folks, do you know what power dissipation is? It's the ability to shag-off the power that is NOT passed onto the speaker and is generated in heat. That given, for the same efficiency of device it becomes PAINFULLY evident that if you are designing an amplifier around that last 50 watts of power dissipation then you are a poor amplifier designer, I'm sure both parties will agree.
> 
> I have repaired THOUSANDS of amplifiers, both with plastic cases and TO3 devices, probably 50/50 each and if I were to say that the TO3 devices suffered a higher failure rate would it be taken well? No it would not, but it's true. Do I discredit this case design? NO!!!! because there's a LOT more to amplifier design than the damn case of a transistor, a LOT MORE, that's not rocket science. That aforementioned 50 watts of dissipation could be eaten up REALLY quick with an inferior heat sink design
> 
> In other words, if you like shiny metal cases, fine, rock them, does a TO3 have slightly better power dissapation? Yes. Does it make THAT much of a difference? NO! Not if you can design a proper amplifier. I would NEVER use transistor case design to sell an amp, if the design calls for that case, then rock them, if you lineup calls for a plastic case then by all means. But to SPECIFICALLY design an amp around a TO3 device which is of aging technology and tout that as a merit is insane. Conversely to retrofit a TO3 designed amp to accept plastic devices (and I've seen it) is even more insane, on an epic scale. Reliability has little to nothing to do with transistor case design, it lies on the hands of the amplifier designer.
> 
> That's about as middle ground as I can be. If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay on the porch and watch. Don't jump a bandwagon.


That is pretty much what Stephen @ Zed was saying in his PDF. That they are old and pretty much outdated design. He stated that he can use 3 small plastic devices in series and have better power dissipation and cost way less and be just as reliable. He says the T03 was designed to fit into the same space as the octal tube socket for power tubes.

"Plastic devices are no better than TO-3 and TO-3 are no better than plastic in terms of power dissipation if used within their limitations.

Plastic power devices are so much better, easier to mount, less expensive, better specifications, large selection of device types and more readily available."

either way some good info in here


----------



## chad

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> *If you don't like a flat rate for repair or mods, don't use the amp... simple... Sell them, there are plenty of people that will gladly buy them from you and be happy about doing so... *


I don't get that either, what is to NOT like about flat rate repair as a whole? Granted it can be a little humbling to pay a lot of money to have a single cold-solder joint, but if that sucker is flat-out nuked the customer ALWAYS ends up ahead, finals ain't cheap. Automotive Amp disassembly is time consuming.


----------



## DAT

See anything wrong with this amp? I'm getting it ready to send to "RAY" for the MODS, supposed to be 100% working I didn't see anything wrong. I can not wire the amp until this weekend. Thought I would ask the Pros on here.


----------



## chad

It very well may be working 100% but it could be totally cashed too. Sometimes things blow up in a phenomenal manner, and WE ALL LOVE seeing pics of carnage. But sometimes they blow up and you can't see anything. Then other times they blow up and their friend that is an "EE student" takes 63% of the blown up stuff out, pitches it, then the owner gives it to a tech that has to chase his tail.

IF AN AMP HAS ISSUES:

A: don't keep replacing fuses if it's chroming the inside of the fuse casing!!!
B: keep it in tact, the tech uses the blown stuff to look for telltale signs.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

chad said:


> I don't get that either, what is to NOT like about flat rate repair as a whole? Granted it can be a little humbling to pay a lot of money to have a single cold-solder joint, but if that sucker is flat-out nuked the customer ALWAYS ends up ahead, finals ain't cheap. Automotive Amp disassembly is time consuming.



Agreed 100%... I would hope after 10-15-20yrs, no cold solder joints would rear their ugly head, though...


----------



## ChrisB

DAT said:


> See anything wrong with this amp? I'm getting it ready to send to "RAY" for the MODS, supposed to be 100% working I didn't see anything wrong. I can not wire the amp until this weekend. Thought I would ask the Pros on here.


It is hard to tell from the photo, but those power supply caps look awfully small. Then again, they could have been replaced at some point along the way because the newer caps tend to be a tad bit smaller than the originals.


----------



## SUX 2BU

I'm a little surprised at the small amount of interest in the LP jacket. I'm sure very few are out there. 

Ray, I'll ask my brother is he's interested in selling or trading something for it.

Also, I'm very curious about those servo subwoofer systems LP used to offer. As I recall, there was a system with 4 8's and a system with 2 12's. Did LP ever sell any? I have yet to have ever seen one outside of an LP ad or the one CA&E test with the 2 12" system.


----------



## ChrisB

Servo system, did someone mention servo system? I never saw one of the LP setups but I do have this and it was designed to work with the Orion 280 GX:



















I still don't know if it is an official "servo" system in the true sense because I think it is a fancy equalization circuit. You have to build your sealed subwoofer enclosure so that it resonates at 70 Hz.... In other words, I believe it is more of an equalization/compensation circuit than a true "servo" setup since there is no cone position sensor nor does it require any specific TS parameters out of the woofers/subwoofers. RIP Mr. Lewis Erath


----------



## tomtomjr

I too would like to see one of the speaker setups with the servo amps. Can you post some pics of the subwoofers with the accelerometers ? I vaguely remember the subs from way back when. The only ones I have seen since then are the ones in the LP brochures I have.


----------



## Mooble

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> That amp was full of mold and mildew when I received it from Oskar Electronics out of California. I need to get some more high purity alcohol so I can finish cleaning it  If I had to guess, this was either recovered from a junkyard or left in high humidity storage because the mold and mildew is horrific.


Ooooh! You bought the LP from Oskar's. I guess I got lucky. The Tru I bought from him was absofreaking mint. Sorry to hear yours was bad.


----------



## ChrisB

Mooble said:


> Ooooh! You bought the LP from Oskar's. I guess I got lucky. The Tru I bought from him was absofreaking mint. Sorry to hear yours was bad.


ca90ss did a great job repairing it and the amp works! I still haven't gone to dig it out of the box to pull the circuit board. I may do that shortly if the person I am waiting on from work doesn't call me... My luck, they will call after 5 with a laundry list of changes saying they need their report done by tomorrow

But back to the amp... Sadly, what I thought was mold and mildew is really goop from a cap going boom Maybe I will break out the denatured alcohol while I am waiting.


----------



## Oliver

How were ca90ss rates ?


----------



## LinearPower

SUX 2BU said:


> I'm a little surprised at the small amount of interest in the LP jacket. I'm sure very few are out there.
> 
> Ray, I'll ask my brother is he's interested in selling or trading something for it.
> 
> Also, I'm very curious about those servo subwoofer systems LP used to offer. As I recall, there was a system with 4 8's and a system with 2 12's. Did LP ever sell any? I have yet to have ever seen one outside of an LP ad or the one CA&E test with the 2 12" system.


They were the 1752S and 2202S, as well as, the 5002S systems. Yes there were many 1752S systems sold, not very many of the 5002S systems. We have converted about 15 1752S back to normal 1752 operation in the past few years and sold them as regular 1752 with mods added. A lot of people had the servo units but the speakers have long ago rotted and the amps were not much use with out the subs, the card in the amp was specifically designed to work with the subs that were sold with the unit. Using other subs would not work correctly, they would play but the parameters would not match.

We also do a global feedback to some of the amps like we did to the production 8002SW's, which takes electronic feedback all the way to the speaker for greater damping factor and control with a little more power. Global feedback was a popular add on to the 1752/2202/2202IQ and the 5002/5002IQ. Taking feedback all the way to a speaker OR where the common wire splits to multiple subs, takes in all resistive losses of the speaker wire and connections, so the amp can make corrections to the signal. This feature can be added to most of the amps.


----------



## ChrisB

a$$hole said:


> How were ca90ss rates ?


Couldn't tell you. I believe he repaired it before Oskar Electronics got their hands on it.


----------



## LinearPower

chad said:


> Woah, Woah, woah, he had a viable argument and I ALSO agree that WAY too much excitement is put into a damn transistor case design. Many points were made, ALL VIABLE if you don't know the numbers or can add to the comments then don't jump on a bandwagon.
> 
> Lets look at a few points:
> 
> Vjgli stated that there are many great plastic case transistors out there, and there are, in fact there are more continuing to come, the TO3 transistor is not as popular as they used to be and a majority of transistor designers are not concentrating on this case design as opposed to newer technology in plastic cases such as thermal tracking as stated. Hell, 5 years ago when I was getting out of the hard-core design/repair league it was rumored that the TO3 design is going away. Many designers switched. Failure rates really did not change, if not they improved because people were forced to re-think their heatsinks and cooling schemes!
> 
> Ray had the rebuttal of a Moto device that comes in 2 packages, each package has the same voltage and current specs EXCEPT that the plastic case has 50 watts less power dissipation, an EXCELLENT example BTW. Look folks, do you know what power dissipation is? It's the ability to shag-off the power that is NOT passed onto the speaker and is generated in heat. That given, for the same efficiency of device it becomes PAINFULLY evident that if you are designing an amplifier around that last 50 watts of power dissipation then you are a poor amplifier designer, I'm sure both parties will agree.
> 
> I have repaired THOUSANDS of amplifiers, both with plastic cases and TO3 devices, probably 50/50 each and if I were to say that the TO3 devices suffered a higher failure rate would it be taken well? No it would not, but it's true. Do I discredit this case design? NO!!!! because there's a LOT more to amplifier design than the damn case of a transistor, a LOT MORE, that's not rocket science. That aforementioned 50 watts of dissipation could be eaten up REALLY quick with an inferior heat sink design
> 
> In other words, if you like shiny metal cases, fine, rock them, does a TO3 have slightly better power dissapation? Yes. Does it make THAT much of a difference? NO! Not if you can design a proper amplifier. I would NEVER use transistor case design to sell an amp, if the design calls for that case, then rock them, if you lineup calls for a plastic case then by all means. But to SPECIFICALLY design an amp around a TO3 device which is of aging technology and tout that as a merit is insane. Conversely to retrofit a TO3 designed amp to accept plastic devices (and I've seen it) is even more insane, on an epic scale. Reliability has little to nothing to do with transistor case design, it lies on the hands of the amplifier designer.
> 
> That's about as middle ground as I can be. If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay on the porch and watch. Don't jump a bandwagon.


I never said our whole world was designed around the TO-3, our engineering means much more than the device alone, my original discussion was about the dissapation factor of the designs NOT WHAT was in them. And again the case dos not have anything to do with whats inside, the gentleman originally posted electrical specs as referenced to the case, cases do not have anything to do with the die used, the electrical characteristics of the device, BUT it can and does effect teh heat dissapation. A case is just that a case, it is a container. 

As far as the electronic dies used I have seen TIP35C (TO-220 plastic case devices) made by ST, Motorola, the Jap counterpart as well as other manufacturers and they all use different die design and size. Some with very poor dies, I will not name the names but engineers know which brands to avoid when making an amp, or they will find out soon when their failure rate goes up for no apparent reason.

As far the extra 50 watts or so of power output from the TO-3 or other large case platic devices, that may not seem like a lot but if you have 3 pair of devices or more per channel it makes a significant difference. 

A good example of plastic case device use is in the older US AMP amps, they used a ton of TO-220 devices to make an amp of simular size to our equivelant amp. Try working on one, when it fails you have a TON of parts to replace. 
There are other issues that MOST people don't look at, 
1.effeciency losses thru using higher number of devices to get the same job done, every electrical junction inside or out side of a device is a resistive loss, every diode crossed internally or externally of a device is .75 volt loss. Using a smaller number of larger devices capable of doing the same thing as a large number of smaller devices is more efficient
2. The same point goes for SQ, it is deminished with each part added and processed thru. (Old audiophiles point of view "straight wire with gain") Keep it simple, stupid, the KISS effect!
3. Statisically, the more devices used the greater the chances of something failing.
4.And then to repair, it is more simple to repair and maintain a product with less parts and complexity.

These 4 statements do not mention case style, just larger or smaller devices, but TO-3 is in the largest case style. Our designs have proven themselves for nearly 35 years, we don't have to defend it. history speaks for itself.


----------



## SUX 2BU

Thanks for the info about the servo systems Ray. Very interesting indeed. And it's surprising to hear that many sold yet zero have seem to shown up on the internet. You listed 3 amps. Were the smaller 2 available with the 4-8's and the 5002S with the 2-12's?

I could see the foam suspensions rotting out, but would it have been a big deal to recone them? Seems a shame to abandon the servo system just due to a simple recone.


----------



## imjustjason

SUX 2BU said:


> Thanks for the info about the servo systems Ray. Very interesting indeed. And it's surprising to hear that many sold yet zero have seem to shown up on the internet. You listed 3 amps. Were the smaller 2 available with the 4-8's and the 5002S with the 2-12's?
> 
> I could see the foam suspensions rotting out, but would it have been a big deal to recone them? Seems a shame to abandon the servo system just due to a simple recone.


You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them. Most monkeys could re-foam something. That is a shame.


----------



## TrickyRicky

imjustjason said:


> You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them. Most monkeys could re-foam something. That is a shame.


If the foam rotted, then the spider suspension is next. So might as well recone when the foam is rotting. And then it will be hard to find a cone-kit with the exact same specs if its an old speaker model, its nearly impossible to find that cone kit as it might not even exist.


----------



## chad

LinearPower said:


> I never said our whole world was designed around the TO-3, our engineering means much more than the device alone, my original discussion was about the dissapation factor of the designs NOT WHAT was in them.


That's pretty much what I said also 



LinearPower said:


> As far as the electronic dies used I have seen TIP35C (TO-220 plastic case devices) made by ST, Motorola, the Jap counterpart as well as other manufacturers and they all use different die design and size. Some with very poor dies, I will not name the names but engineers know which brands to avoid when making an amp, or they will find out soon when their failure rate goes up for no apparent reason.


No doubt, and for you guys playing with Old PG's with 2SC3281's and 2SA1302's... watch for counterfeits too! they are rampant! Toshiba only!



LinearPower said:


> As far the extra 50 watts or so of power output from the TO-3 or other large case platic devices, that may not seem like a lot but if you have 3 pair of devices or more per channel it makes a significant difference.


Dissipation, not output, 2 very different things, the 2 listed had 50 watts difference in DISSIPATION.



LinearPower said:


> A good example of plastic case device use is in the older US AMP amps, they used a ton of TO-220 devices to make an amp of simular size to our equivelant amp. Try working on one, when it fails you have a TON of parts to replace.
> There are other issues that MOST people don't look at,


Good god, preach on, those designs are a DRAG!



LinearPower said:


> These 4 statements do not mention case style, just larger or smaller devices, but TO-3 is in the largest case style. Our designs have proven themselves for nearly 35 years, we don't have to defend it. history speaks for itself.


I never said anything to discredit your amplifiers reliability, in fact I gave sediment internally to the designer that was able to design such a robust circuit.


----------



## LinearPower

imjustjason said:


> You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them. Most monkeys could re-foam something. That is a shame.



The company was not under my control at the time, BUT we still don't appreciate the insult of "monkeys". These systems were made many years ago, and the woofer lasted a very long time. I cannot control what a customer does with the woofers when they fail due to age, and I sure can't control what the company when I was not running the company. But we MONKEYS sure made and still make a HECK of a product. 

You sure have no tact, respect or anything else. I am sure that you will be bashed again, seems like you have a propensity for it. Please make no mistake of ever attempting business with me, it just will not happen! 

If you dislike everything about the product PLEASE do as others have suggested SELL IT leave this blogg and go buy from and pester someone else. 

My pateince has worn out, I have been reserved, nice and professional and still am but one more person and I'm letting it all go. 

The narrator of this site needs to discuss the bashing of you, me or anyone. You complain of being bashed, but several of you have called me "Ignorant", "********" and now a comparison to a "monkey". I am taking far more abuse in this site than you are. I am probably leaving this site, due to arrogant, uneducated people such as yourself, I have far better things to do with my day. One of which is continuing to make my customers happy with their products. I WILL be telling others what type of conduct is performed on this site and not to waste their time. I really want to tell you and your group of bullies where to go, but I think you know where and you probably already stink from being there. 

To the others that just like to chat and act civil, it has been nice meeting you, and we will still be available on our site and thru e-mail. We have been here longer than most any other car audio amp company (unless one of these bullies is GOD and starts changing time, we have been here nearly 35 years) and we intend to still be here. PS I think there are a few self absorbed GODs on here!

Depending on the handling of this situation by site ownership, will determine whether I ever set foot in this place again. The rest of you that stay continue ot carry the torch!


----------



## chad

he basically said it was a simple procedure to re-foam a driver.

That's it, do you offer a re-foaming service for these particular drivers?


----------



## TrickyRicky

imjustjason said:


> You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them. Most monkeys could re-foam something. That is a shame.


Thanks a lot dummy, you made Ray leave this site. He posted a lot of good information, most of which I transfer to WordPad and saved for future references. 

And unlike other big companies that use overseas, there is not one that cares more about their name/company than Ray. He response to all my emails and his very friendly and shares his knowledge on car audio. Try talking to an educated tech (not some kid that answers the phone and thinks his knows what his talking about) of Kicker, JL Audio, Kenwood, not going to happen. So sad to see him leave. Hope all you bullies are happy.


----------



## LinearPower

chad said:


> he basically said it was a simple procedure to re-foam a driver.
> 
> That's it, do you offer a re-foaming service for these particular drivers?


No sir, that is NOT what he all said, I know pointed remarks when I see them, and its pretty easy to read MONKEY, as well as his history of remarks, and your handling of conduct on this thread. I will post a compalint with the administration of the amount of arragance in the site, probably do no good, but I will anyway. I don't come on here and slam dunk anyone, or product, I have answered questions, promoted our design and philosophy, if it is not for you don't BASH, retain your thoughts or leave.


----------



## chad

LinearPower said:


> No sir, that is NOT what he all said, I know pointed remarks when I see them, and its pretty easy to read MONKEY, as well as his history of remarks, *and your handling of conduct on this thread*. i will psot a compalint with the administration of the amount of arragance in the site, probably do know good, but I will anyway. I don;t come on here and slam dunk anyone, or product, I have answered questions, promoted our design and philosophy, if it is not for you don't BASH, retain your thoughts or leave.


I'm sorry you feel put out by a forum that is NOT heavily moderated, this is not how we do things here. 

I don't know what your problem is with me, I THOUGHT we were having a halfway intelligent conversation that involved no insults and good-'ol discussion. Evidently you don't feel the same of our discussion.


----------



## [email protected]

LinearPower said:


> No sir, that is NOT what he all said, I know pointed remarks when I see them, and its pretty easy to read MONKEY, as well as his history of remarks, and your handling of conduct on this thread. i will psot a compalint with the administration of the amount of arragance in the site, probably do know good, but I will anyway. I don;t come on here and slam dunk anyone, or product, I have answered questions, promoted our design and philosophy, if it is not for you don't BASH, retain your thoughts or leave.


Seems like might need to change your kotex and pop another midol, see thats a joke there, you know a funny haha.

But seriously this is a forum, bashing goes on, on forums, have you been on a forum lately? Not much bad has been said in here

I have enjoyed reading the information you provided


----------



## guitarsail

I'm a good friend of Jason and I know he wasn't bashing on you. I would without speaking for him say that he was simply saying it is easy to refoam/cone. I am most confident he was not saying you guys are monkeys by any stretch. I would hate to see you leave with your knowledge because something was mis-interpretted on the interwebz.


----------



## LinearPower

chad said:


> I'm sorry you feel put out by a forum that is NOT heavily moderated, this is not how we do things here.
> 
> I don't know what your problem is with me, I THOUGHT we were having a halfway intelligent conversation that involved no insults and good-'ol discussion. Evidently you don't feel the same of our discussion.


No insults??? You must not be reading the same post me or others are reading. Others are seeing the posts and responding to the negativity of them. A lot of people are responding to the insults. You are not making them, but just as you said a few minutes ago, "he was jsut asking a qusetion" (paraphrase) Yeah and he comapared our company to something LESS of a MONKEY. Please read more carefully!! ALL the posts


----------



## WRX/Z28

SUX 2BU said:


> Thanks for the info about the servo systems Ray. Very interesting indeed. And it's surprising to hear that many sold yet zero have seem to shown up on the internet. You listed 3 amps. Were the smaller 2 available with the 4-8's and the 5002S with the 2-12's?
> 
> I could see the foam suspensions rotting out, but would it have been a big deal to recone them? Seems a shame to abandon the servo system just due to a simple recone.





imjustjason said:


> You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them. Most monkeys could re-foam something. That is a shame.





LinearPower said:


> The company was not under my control at the time, BUT we still don't appreciate the insult of "monkeys". These systems were made many years ago, and the woofer lasted a very long time. I cannot control what a customer does with the woofers when they fail due to age, and I sure can't control what the company when I was not running the company. But we MONKEYS sure made and still make a HECK of a product.
> 
> You sure have no tact, respect or anything else. I am sure that you will be bashed again, seems like you have a propensity for it. Please make no mistake of ever attempting business with me, it just will not happen!
> 
> If you dislike everything about the product PLEASE do as others have suggested SELL IT leave this blogg and go buy from and pester someone else.
> 
> My pateince has worn out, I have been reserved, nice and professional and still am but one more person and I'm letting it all go.
> 
> The narrator of this site needs to discuss the bashing of you, me or anyone. You complain of being bashed, but several of you have called me "Ignorant", "********" and now a comparison to a "monkey". I am taking far more abuse in this site than you are. I am probably leaving this site, due to arrogant, uneducated people such as yourself, I have far better things to do with my day. One of which is continuing to make my customers happy with their products. I WILL be telling others what type of conduct is performed on this site and not to waste their time. I really want to tell you and your group of bullies where to go, but I think you know where and you probably already stink from being there.
> 
> To the others that just like to chat and act civil, it has been nice meeting you, and we will still be available on our site and thru e-mail. We have been here longer than most any other car audio amp company (unless one of these bullies is GOD and starts changing time, we have been here nearly 35 years) and we intend to still be here. PS I think there are a few self absorbed GODs on here!
> 
> Depending on the handling of this situation by site ownership, will determine whether I ever set foot in this place again. The rest of you that stay continue ot carry the torch!


I think you need to relax and re-read what imjustjason wrote, and what it was in reply to. I think you interpretted it wrong, and it appears i'm not the only one. 

It seems as though he was suggesting nothing more than that it was easy to refoam a subwoofer. I really do not think he was comparing your company to "monkeys" at all. I don't remember him ever having bad mouthed LP in any way. The only one instigating less than civil discussion was VJ(whatever). 


At any rate, it would be a shame to lose your input, and have this all get blown way out of proportion. I think just about everyone here is on board with LP being at the top of the amp game. The only debate going on is about whether the T-03 case style is superior or not. (I for one tend to think that there's a reason many respected amp companys use the metal cases.) Seems we have to agree to disagree on that one. 

Try to stay on, I appreciate reading what you have to say about your product. I always value info "straight from the horses mouth" (Please don't think i'm comparing you to a horse now)  :laugh:


----------



## guitarsail

haha /\/\ I would have a hard time believing he dislikes LP considering the stash..

See all this LP talk makes me want one to see what the hype is all about


----------



## LinearPower

BeatsDownLow said:


> Seems like might need to change your kotex and pop another midol, see thats a joke there, you know a funny haha.
> 
> But seriously this is a forum, bashing goes on, on forums, have you been on a forum lately? Not much bad has been said in here
> 
> I have enjoyed reading the information you provided


Im sure its good laugh material for all of you, since most of you know how to design an amp better than me. I don't go attacking people it doesn't have to be done to talk. If you can't say something good why say anything at all. I don't direct information against any product or person (but yall sure do), I speak of design and theory, if that fits a product fine if it does'nt fine, but others have to make sure they try to make pointed remarks about what we have done. I guess I'm expecting more mature behavor.

Just change the name of the site to "BASH ME PLEASE I'm dumb enough to let you!" then, don't label it an audio forum!


----------



## WRX/Z28

guitarsail said:


> haha /\/\ I would have a hard time believing he dislikes LP considering the stash..
> 
> See all this LP talk makes me want one to see what the hype is all about


I just got a 2.2hv in. I'm dying to try it. I love the 5 way binding posts for speaker connections. I also currently own a 2202IQ and (2) 1502iq's. I could basically run an entire LP setup. I was really waiting to see what exactly these "MODS" entail. I'd heard some people condoning them, but I don't know exactly what is done, or if it's even the same from amp to amp.


----------



## LinearPower

guitarsail said:


> haha /\/\ I would have a hard time believing he dislikes LP considering the stash..
> 
> See all this LP talk makes me want one to see what the hype is all about


He is the one who caused days of argument and said he wanted to, lets see, humm, "dissassociate himself" form the product. You need to read more of the thread.


----------



## WRX/Z28

LinearPower said:


> He is the one who caused days of argument and said he wanted to, lets see, humm, "dissassociate himself" form the product. You need to read more of the thread.


That was about his misunderstanding the point behind modded/unmodded amps in the new lineup. At any rate, it's obviously just talk. You're a manufacturer, grow a thicker skin! There will always be someone to talk nonsense about your company, it's how you respond to the nonsense that forms the readers opinion of your company. 

Man Up!!!


----------



## guitarsail

well fortunately I have the pleasure of living in the same town and having spent quite a bit of time at his house pouring over his LPs...he likes them, hes just more peturbed at the recent hype online about how LP's aren't any good without mods (not true we all know). It has nothing to do with you or LP, more to do with all of the people who have hyped up how LPs aren't any good without mods, which we know is not true, its just something that people have perpetuated and that bothers him. But again I don't want to speak for him he is much more eloquant than I and I will delete this all when he chimes in since it is his oppinion..


----------



## LinearPower

WRX/Z28 said:


> That was about his misunderstanding the point behind modded/unmodded amps in the new lineup. At any rate, it's obviously just talk. You're a manufacturer, grow a thicker skin! There will always be someone to talk nonsense about your company, it's how you respond to the nonsense that forms the readers opinion of your company.
> 
> Man Up!!!


I have paid my dues in the industry, I don't need to come here to respond to being battered to sell product. I have far better use of my time. I sure hate that is now a requirment to be able to sell product, or make me a man.


----------



## WRX/Z28

LinearPower said:


> I have paid my dues in the industry, I don't need to come here to respond to being battered to sell product. I have far better use of my time. I sure hate that is now a requirment to be able to sell product, or make me a man.


Noone is disputing your industry expertise. I haven't seen anyone battering you or LP besides VJgli. imjustjason expressed an annoyance over the mod thing. He agree'd with me when I asked what better amp could you have spent $900 on, and stated that the only answer was "a modded version of the same amp". What does that tell you? 

I think his feeling was that he bought a regular ferrari, only to find out that they released the same ferrari with a slightly better cam setup for a little bit more, and he didn't know about it. 

He even said "I thought my 5002 was the greatest thing ever, until I heard it could be made better". 


Seriously, grow a thicker skin. This is an internet forum, full of people who will disagree with you just for the sake of disagreeing. If you abandon the forum at the first sign of someone not professing their LP love, what does that say? 

Come on man, your product has been widely regarded on this forum as being the best available. Don't let a couple sour grapes spoil it for everyone else. 

I say again. Man Up!!!!


----------



## MarkZ

LinearPower said:


> The company was not under my control at the time, BUT we still don't appreciate the insult of "monkeys". These systems were made many years ago, and the woofer lasted a very long time. I cannot control what a customer does with the woofers when they fail due to age, and I sure can't control what the company when I was not running the company. But we MONKEYS sure made and still make a HECK of a product.
> 
> You sure have no tact, respect or anything else. I am sure that you will be bashed again, seems like you have a propensity for it. Please make no mistake of ever attempting business with me, it just will not happen!


Just an observation here, but...um...you're awfully defensive and condescending for a guy who should probably be a little more diplomatic about his products. A word of advice: there are enough _good_ amplifiers on the market for some of us to base purchasing decisions on superficial things like how representatives of a company portray themselves in public forums. You might want to keep that in mind.


----------



## WRX/Z28

MarkZ said:


> Just an observation here, but...um...you're awfully defensive and condescending for a guy who should probably be a little more diplomatic about his products. A word of advice: there are enough _good_ amplifiers on the market for some of us to base purchasing decisions on superficial things like how representatives of a company portray themselves in public forums. You might want to keep that in mind.


^^^^ He said it simpler, and better than I could.


----------



## ca90ss

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> ca90ss did a great job repairing it


Don't say that until you pull the board out. It was a very temporary repair just to see that it worked. I didn't have the eyelets to repair the solder pads that were damaged from when the caps blew. Pretty sure there isn't even any thermal paste on it since I had planned on taking it right back apart after testing it.


----------



## chad

MarkZ said:


> Just an observation here, but...um...you're awfully defensive and condescending for a guy who should probably be a little more diplomatic about his products. A word of advice: there are enough _good_ amplifiers on the market for some of us to base purchasing decisions on superficial things like how representatives of a company portray themselves in public forums. You might want to keep that in mind.


That's pretty much about what I was going to say in the next few minutes when I closed this thread. I'd hate to see someone shoot themselves in the foot over something as arbitrary as this.

It's time to take it in a different direction.


----------



## WRX/Z28

chad said:


> That's pretty much about what I was going to say in the next few minutes when I closed this thread. I'd hate to see someone shoot themselves in the foot over something as arbitrary as this.
> 
> It's time to take it in a different direction.


Still hoping the thread can stay open....


----------



## ChrisB

ca90ss said:


> Don't say that until you pull the board out. It was a very temporary repair just to see that it worked. I didn't have the eyelets to repair the solder pads that were damaged from when the caps blew. Pretty sure there isn't even any thermal paste on it since I had planned on taking it right back apart after testing it.


Ruh ro Then again, I should be able to take care of the rest I am not touching anything until I get some more sleep though... 3 hours of rest in the last 48 hours IS NOT enough


----------



## WRX/Z28

Actually, while we may still have your attention...


Do you have any plans to build any multi-channel amps (IE 4 or 6 channel)?

Was there a reason LP didn't make many of them? 

I'm sure most here would be highly interested in something multichannel for space conservation.


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> Just an observation here, but...um...you're awfully defensive and condescending for a guy who should probably be a little more diplomatic about his products. A word of advice: there are enough _good_ amplifiers on the market for some of us to base purchasing decisions on superficial things like how representatives of a company portray themselves in public forums. You might want to keep that in mind.


Well, in my opinion, LP is the best, just like everyone else that has used one knows. I have 12 LP amps and I just got into LP this January and fell in love with LP's sound, and had to buy more. It is .44'4'768++;9987987;8+8
':;

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'
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k
'


'
'
j
'']k']jk''l'lh[';/;/'''';/M?n;,jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## chad

Jeanious2009 said:


> Well, in my opinion, LP is the best,


No **** Dick Tracy?


----------



## guitarsail

Dig deeper Watson!


----------



## imjustjason

Are you guys ****ing kidding me!?!!?!! How in the world is this statement an insult to anyone? 



imjustjason said:


> You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them. Most monkeys could re-foam something. That is a shame.


Let me disect it for the quick of keyboard so that there are no hidden meanings...

_*You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them*._ Someone, and I don't give a flying **** who at this point, said that all people that had tossed the subwoofers that went with the LP Servo-Sub system would have had to do was recone them and they would have a new subwoofer. My simple statement was... foam rots way before anything else... and all one (not anyone associated with LP) would need to do is re-foam them.

_*Most monkeys could re-foam something*_ This is a simple statement meaning that... most people with a shred of mechanical ability can re-foam a speaker. I've been doing it since I was 8.

_*That is a shame*_ This is also a simple statement meaning that, it's a shame that all of those people that tossed thier subs from the servo system because of foam rot... is... well, a shame.


----------



## MarkZ

imjustjason said:


> Are you guys ****ing kidding me!?!!?!! How in the world is this statement an insult to anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Let me disect it for the quick of keyboard so that there are no hidden meanings...
> 
> _*You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them*._ Someone, and I don't give a flying **** who at this point, said that all people that had tossed the subwoofers that went with the LP Servo-Sub system would have had to do was recone them and they would have a new subwoofer. My simple statement was... foam rots way before anything else... and all one (not anyone associated with LP) would need to do is re-foam them.
> 
> _*Most monkeys could re-foam something*_ This is a simple statement meaning that... most people with a shred of mechanical ability can re-foam a speaker. I've been doing it since I was 8.
> 
> _*That is a shame*_ This is also a simple statement meaning that, it's a shame that all of those people that tossed thier subs from the servo system because of foam rot... is... well, a shame.


I'm insulted. Monkeys are quite dexterous. No denegrating monkeys in this forum!


----------



## WRX/Z28

imjustjason said:


> Are you guys ****ing kidding me!?!!?!! How in the world is this statement an insult to anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Let me disect it for the quick of keyboard so that there are no hidden meanings...
> 
> _*You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them*._ Someone, and I don't give a flying **** who at this point, said that all people that had tossed the subwoofers that went with the LP Servo-Sub system would have had to do was recone them and they would have a new subwoofer. My simple statement was... foam rots way before anything else... and all one (not anyone associated with LP) would need to do is re-foam them.
> 
> _*Most monkeys could re-foam something*_ This is a simple statement meaning that... most people with a shred of mechanical ability can re-foam a speaker. I've been doing it since I was 8.
> 
> _*That is a shame*_ This is also a simple statement meaning that, it's a shame that all of those people that tossed thier subs from the servo system because of foam rot... is... well, a shame.


We already knew this, but maybe now that it's come from you, it will carry more weight with Ray. I really don't understand how he misconstrued this...


----------



## chad

You mean I should not have tossed the 4 JBL L112's I own on the bonfire?


----------



## ChrisB

chad said:


> You mean I should not have tossed the 4 JBL L112's I own on the bonfire?


Crapola, or my 15" M & M Godfathers that I tossed in the trash due to the surrounds dry rotting. Sheeyat


----------



## TrickyRicky

imjustjason said:


> Are you guys ****ing kidding me!?!!?!! How in the world is this statement an insult to anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Let me disect it for the quick of keyboard so that there are no hidden meanings...
> 
> _*You wouldn't even have to recone them, just re-foam them*._ Someone, and I don't give a flying **** who at this point, said that all people that had tossed the subwoofers that went with the LP Servo-Sub system would have had to do was recone them and they would have a new subwoofer. My simple statement was... foam rots way before anything else... and all one (not anyone associated with LP) would need to do is re-foam them.
> 
> _*Most monkeys could re-foam something*_ This is a simple statement meaning that... most people with a shred of mechanical ability can re-foam a speaker. I've been doing it since I was 8.
> 
> _*That is a shame*_ This is also a simple statement meaning that, it's a shame that all of those people that tossed thier subs from the servo system because of foam rot... is... well, a shame.


I totally agree with JustJason, but if Ray felt like he was insulted then the other guy should be a bigger man, and just say sorry and let that be that. I am not kissing ass, but Ray is pretty mush a legand/god. Like I said before, his the only owner/co of a company that pays attention and replies to all emails sent to him. I have all of his given information saved and very thankfull as other smart people dont want to share any important info.

But lets just all forget about this and keep talking about the wonder world of music. "FOR THE LOVE OF MUSIC" lets all just be friends and talk more about the differences between amps and set-ups. Ray keep you the good work and dont pay any attention to any remarks/messages that you believe are negative, we all know who has the best amps out there already.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> I totally agree with JustJason, but if Ray felt like he was insulted then the other guy should be a bigger man, and just say sorry and let that be that. I am not kissing ass, but *Ray is pretty mush a legand/god*. Like I said before, his the only owner/co of a company that pays attention and replies to all emails sent to him. I have all of his given information saved and very thankfull as other smart people dont want to share any important info.
> 
> But lets just all forget about this and keep talking about the wonder world of music. "FOR THE LOVE OF MUSIC" lets all just be friends and talk more about the differences between amps and set-ups. Ray keep you the good work and dont pay any attention to any remarks/messages that you believe are negative, we all know who has the best amps out there already.


Dude, GTFO of here. If Ray felt he was insulted by someone making a statement that had nothing to do with him, he should grow a thicker skin, and realize that he is not the only person involved in the discussion. 

Ray is a man, not a god. He may make a good amplifier, but that doesn't excuse him for behaving like a 10 year old throwing a tantrum. He needs to act professionally, and rise above insults and any perceived jabs at his products (real or imaginary). They should stand on their own merrits, and I beleive they do...


This is where i'm coming from right now: 










Ray, it seems like you need some of this to help you unwind.


----------



## imjustjason

Well, allow me to be the bigger man here. 

*Ray, dude; I meant no insult toward you or Linear Power in any way. I've got LP's and like them, always have always will. *

The only thing I meant to say was that it was a shame that people tossed good equipment because of some simple foam rot. No pointed comments, no hidden agendas, no ill will in any way.

*If you want me to stay out of this thread just tell me to leave and I'm done.*


I go away to my son's baseball game and I come back and all hell has broke loose... and I'm right in the center of it!!!


----------



## ca90ss

Jeanious2009 said:


> if Ray felt like he was insulted then the other guy should be a bigger man, and just say sorry and let that be that.


Why should he apologize for Ray's reading comprehension problem? Everybody else knew what jason meant.


> I am not kissing ass,


Are you kidding? I can't believe you can still type with your lips planted so firmly on his ass.


> Ray is pretty mush a legand/god.


See above.


----------



## guitarsail

Haha I tried man...I tried...


----------



## chad

WRX/Z28 said:


> Dude, GTFO of here. If Ray felt he was insulted by someone making a statement that had nothing to do with him, he should grow a thicker skin, and realize that he is not the only person involved in the discussion.
> 
> Ray is a man, not a god. He may make a good amplifier, but that doesn't excuse him for behaving like a 10 year old throwing a tantrum. He needs to act professionally, and rise above insults and any perceived jabs at his products (real or imaginary). They should stand on their own merrits, and I beleive they do...


If there were a merit system here you would have probably gained the first +1 from me.



WRX/Z28 said:


> This is where i'm coming from right now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray, it seems like you need some of this to help you unwind.


I'm in, lets go! And talk about something other than audio


----------



## imjustjason

guitarsail said:


> Haha I tried man...I tried...


I don't think anything was going to stop that train...


----------



## WRX/Z28

This stuff is soooo good.... Bitting’s Black Magic 
A prime example of the hard to find German dark lager known as “Schwarzbier”. This lager has the character and color of a dark ale without the associated burnt bitterness. A cool conditioning temperature for 8 weeks ensures smoothness. (4.8%abv)


----------



## guitarsail

we need cat pics!!! and beer!!!!


----------



## ChrisB

WRX/Z28 said:


> This stuff is soooo good.... Bitting’s Black Magic
> A prime example of the hard to find German dark lager known as “Schwarzbier”. This lager has the character and color of a dark ale without the associated burnt bitterness. A cool conditioning temperature for 8 weeks ensures smoothness. (4.8%abv)


Can you drink a whole half gallon in one sitting and still stand? I drank a whole 750ml of Crown XR the first night after purchasing three bottles. When I woke up the next afternoon, I swore I would never do that again. In my defense, that was two weeks after my wife died

Now, I buy amps instead of drinking all the time


----------



## chad

nice, I'm chillin on Beam and the "new" pepsi throwback (sugar not HFCS) and it's like youth. Building the electrical system for the go-kart project and pulling radar duty for spotters for another couple hours.

(spring in Illinois)


----------



## guitarsail

MURRAAAAYYYYYY!!!


----------



## WRX/Z28

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Can you drink a whole half gallon in one sitting and still stand? I drank a whole 750ml of Crown XR the first night after purchasing three bottles. When I woke up the next afternoon, I swore I would never do that again. In my defense, that was two weeks after my wife died
> 
> Now, I buy amps instead of drinking all the time



I think I can, we'll see in a little bit. I'm about a pint and a half from finishing that half gallon. lol. I'm about 215lbs, and i'm Irish, so I can drink. 

I buy amps AND drink. lol. I have too many amps. RAY! Don't make me sell my LP's. Those were keepers! Come back and have a good time again!



chad said:


> nice, I'm chillin on Beam and the "new" pepsi throwback (sugar not HFCS) and it's like youth. Building the electrical system for the go-kart project and pulling radar duty for spotters for another couple hours.
> 
> (spring in Illinois)



We taste tested pepsi throwback at my house. My gf's comment was that it sticks to your teeth more. lol. 

I thought it tasted better!


----------



## chad

The stuff we grew up on as kids!

There are a few Mexican restaurants that import the soft drinks in bottles made with sugar and it's SOOO much better. Some think it sucks but you can certainly tell the generation difference


----------



## WRX/Z28

chad said:


> The stuff we grew up on as kids!
> 
> There are a few Mexican restaurants that import the soft drinks in bottles made with sugar and it's SOOO much better. Some think it sucks but you can certainly tell the generation difference


Theres a few cola's and soft drinks you can buy like that. They taste better, but damn are they more expensive. It's a nice treat.


----------



## TrickyRicky

chad said:


> The stuff we grew up on as kids!
> 
> There are a few Mexican restaurants that import the soft drinks in bottles made with sugar and it's SOOO much better. Some think it sucks but you can certainly tell the generation difference


Yeah, Mexican Cola is the best. I tried Jones soda but its too sweet and bold for me. I love the coca cola thats from Mexico, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. Anyone who hasnt tried it, ya'll dont know what your missing.

And as for beer, I only drink Olde English HG (high gravity 8.0%) 800 malt liquor. Its smooth and it gets you ****ed up with one 40oz or 2 to really turn your world upside down.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah, Mexican Cola is the best. I tried Jones soda but its too sweet and bold for me. I love the coca cola thats from Mexico, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. Anyone who hasnt tried it, ya'll dont know what your missing.
> 
> And as for beer, I only drink Olde English HG (high gravity 8.0%) 800 malt liquor. Its smooth and it gets you ****ed up with one 40oz or 2 to really turn your world upside down.


We used to drink OE in high school. It pretty much tasted like furniture polish and the next morning you had to shave your tongue in addition to your face:laugh:


----------



## bass_lover1

WRX/Z28 said:


> I think I can, we'll see in a little bit. I'm about a pint and a half from finishing that half gallon. lol. I'm about 215lbs, and i'm Irish, so I can drink.
> 
> I buy amps AND drink. lol. I have too many amps. RAY! Don't make me sell my LP's. Those were keepers! Come back and have a good time again!


If you ever decide to sell a certain 2.2HV, I'm personally going to shoot you in the face, and then take my amp back


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah, Mexican Cola is the best. I tried Jones soda but its too sweet and bold for me. I love the coca cola thats from Mexico, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. Anyone who hasnt tried it, ya'll dont know what your missing.
> 
> And as for beer, I only drink Olde English HG (high gravity 8.0%) 800 malt liquor. Its smooth and it gets you ****ed up with one 40oz or 2 to really turn your world upside down.


I used to work for a company that made the red coloring that went in OE. I would not ingest anything made by my former employer. It might cause death. 

I sneezed blue from that place for months after I stopped working there.


----------



## WRX/Z28

bass_lover1 said:


> If you ever decide to sell a certain 2.2HV, I'm personally going to shoot you in the face, and then take my amp back


You're not taking anything back :mean:. I'm just trying to bring Ray back to reality.


----------



## bass_lover1

WRX/Z28 said:


> You're not taking anything back :mean:. I'm just trying to bring Ray back to reality.


It's ok, I still have another one to play with.


----------



## ChrisB

I am glad I don't have a 2.2 in my list of Linear Powers. Never thought I would have to defend myself against an "amp jacking"


----------



## TrickyRicky

WRX/Z28 said:


> I used to work for a company that made the red coloring that went in OE. I would not ingest anything made by my former employer. It might cause death.
> 
> I sneezed blue from that place for months after I stopped working there.


Red coloring dye on OE? Well I dont care, since I've only been trying this beer for 8 years, and around the begining I drand Steel Reserve 211 which is really deadly. 211 will **** you up so good you wont know the difference between getting kissed and getting soccer punched. I rather keep drinking HG800.


----------



## WRX/Z28

bass_lover1 said:


> It's ok, I still have another one to play with.





06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I am glad I don't have a 2.2 in my list of Linear Powers. Never thought I would have to defend myself against an "amp jacking"



No worries! Hey bass_lover1, don't forget, if you take my 2.2hv, I take your 952iq, and 652i back! heheheheheh


----------



## bass_lover1

WRX/Z28 said:


> No worries! Hey bass_lover1, don't forget, if you take my 2.2hv, I take your 952iq, and 652i back! heheheheheh


Go ahead, I don't have a 952IQ, sucka.  And I'll give you the 652 that I got off ebay not too long ago lol, lets just say, not as pretty as the white one.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Oh crap!


----------



## WRX/Z28

bass_lover1 said:


> Go ahead, I don't have a 952IQ, sucka.  And I'll give you the 652 that I got off ebay not too long ago lol, lets just say, not as pretty as the white one.


****TY!!!! I'll take my damn white amps back! You know what I meant! lol

992IQ 652I whatever!

hehehehehe....


----------



## TrickyRicky

WRX/Z28 said:


> ****TY!!!! I'll take my damn white amps back! You know what I meant! lol
> 
> 992IQ 652I whatever!
> 
> hehehehehe....


I have a few amps I would be more than glad to trade for that 2.2HV. I have all in black a 452, 652I, 952, 2202IQ, and a modded (well being modded) 2502IQ. The only white amp I have is a 2202IQ. Let me know if you want to trade for that 2.2HV. Ray also told me after the 2502IQ's get modded they will be considered pretty closed to a 2.2HV amp.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> I have a few amps I would be more than glad to trade for that 2.2HV. I have all in black a 452, 652I, 952, 2202IQ, and a modded (well being modded) 2502IQ. The only white amp I have is a 2202IQ. Let me know if you want to trade for that 2.2HV. Ray also told me after the 2502IQ's get modded they will be considered pretty closed to a 2.2HV amp.


Negative! I already have a 2202IQ, and a pair of 1502IQ's. I'm good! 

Time for more beer! I can still type intelligably...


----------



## benny

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah, Mexican Cola is the best. I tried Jones soda but its too sweet and bold for me. I love the coca cola thats from Mexico, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. Anyone who hasnt tried it, ya'll dont know what your missing.
> 
> And as for beer, I only drink Olde English HG (high gravity 8.0%) 800 malt liquor. Its smooth and it gets you ****ed up with one 40oz or 2 to really turn your world upside down.


You sir, are a man with NO taste, and I imagine you really dont like yourself.


----------



## 6APPEAL

I stand corrected by the person that built my amp. I over stated the peak power output of my 5002's by a couple of hundred watts. Sorry about that guys (and Ray). It will not happen again. No more power specs from me. If you want to know, ask Ray. Someone get the target off my back:rifle: and calling for my head:behead:.

Now, back to enjoying my vacation.
John


----------



## Oliver

WRX/Z28 said:


> Oh crap!


quote
A number of U.S. breweries produce Schwarzbier. The Boston, Massachusetts based Samuel Adams distributes a Schwarzbier under the name "Samuel Adams Black Lager." Spoetzl, a 100 year old brewery in Shiner, Texas produces Shiner Bohemian Black Lager. The town of Shiner was settled by German and Czech immigrants in the 19th century. Saranac also produces a Schwarzbier under the name "Saranac Black Forest." The Gordon Biersch Brewing Company chain also produces and carries schwarzbier.


The Köstritzer brewery has been owned by the Bitburger Brauerei since 1991. It is located in Bad Köstritz, which is close to Gera in Thuringia. The brewery was founded in 1543 and it is one of the oldest producers of Schwarzbier (black beer) in Germany. 
quote


----------



## DAT

my LP Collection 











I hit the goldmine


----------



## SteveLPfreak

DAT said:


> my LP Collection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hit the goldmine


A REAL LP fan would sell some of those off and spread the love!


----------



## DAT

Yeah your right they are only models you probably would not be interested in.

302 IQ

652IQ

LP50

452IQ

Lp50z

992IQ

4253IQ


----------



## labcoat22

a$$hole said:


> quote
> Saranac also produces a Schwarzbier under the name "Saranac Black Forest." The Gordon Biersch Brewing Company chain also produces and carries schwarzbier.


MMMM Saranac I went to collage in the town with the Saranac brewery can you say every Friday brew tour. 

Life was good 

Ok sorry about being off topic.

R-


----------



## SteveLPfreak

DAT said:


> Yeah your right they are only models you probably would not be interested in.
> 
> 302 IQ
> 
> 652IQ
> 
> LP50
> 
> 452IQ
> 
> Lp50z
> 
> 992IQ
> 
> 4253IQ


Not true. Personally, I prefer the smaller amps. It doesn't take much power to drive speakers at ~300Hz and above. The smaller amps work great. Right now, I am running a 302IQ (tweets), 452IQ (mids), 952IQ (midbass) - all the smaller footprint LP amps. My low end is currently handled by a PG 600.1 running a DIYMA 12.

Have anything in black you want to sell?


----------



## DAT

Getting the colors for you and costs.

-Stay tuned...


----------



## DAT

302 IQ $290 - need to update the colors

652IQ $325 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray

LP50 $325 - Plum Crazy

452IQ $325 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray

Lp50z $340 - Plum Crazy

992IQ $400 - Black is only color right now maybe I'll let go a few white models??..

4253IQ $400 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray


all prices + cost of shipping to you.




These are new in the box !!


----------



## bass_lover1

SteveLPfreak said:


> Not true. Personally, I prefer the smaller amps. It doesn't take much power to drive speakers at ~300Hz and above. The smaller amps work great. Right now, I am running a 302IQ (tweets), 452IQ (mids), 952IQ (midbass) - all the smaller footprint LP amps. My low end is currently handled by a PG 600.1 running a DIYMA 12.
> 
> Have anything in black you want to sell?


I agree, the 652I I'm using on my Neo3s, is plenty, with gain maybe up 1/8th off the bottom.


----------



## TrickyRicky

DAT said:


> 302 IQ $290 - need to update the colors
> 
> 652IQ $325 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray
> 
> LP50 $325 - Plum Crazy
> 
> 452IQ $325 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray
> 
> Lp50z $340 - Plum Crazy
> 
> 992IQ $400 - Black is only color right now maybe I'll let go a few white models??..
> 
> 4253IQ $400 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray
> 
> 
> all prices + cost of shipping to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are new in the box !!


That aint your picture or your collection. I know this picture from a website thats in EUROPE. I WOULDNT ORDER ANYTHING from them since its in a whole different language and currency, plus you don't know if their running a scam.

DAT, have you ever order any from them? And if those are really yours (if we were to pretend) could you take more pics of your warehouse and line up all those amps without their boxes???:laugh:


----------



## DAT

all I know is my friend ordered a bunch of the amps for resale. He shot me the pic.

I'm buying a 952IQ from him next week. I'll pay him when i get it. And post pics here.

If it works out I'm buying more.


----------



## tomtomjr

I remember that pic. Everyone was going nuts and trying to buy it all. Never heard if anyone got any of the amps. Did anyone ever complete a transaction on any of them? Did it end up being a scam? Or was it a for-real deal?


----------



## DAT

I local friend of mine order 13 amps they are supposed to be here next week.

Will check everyone updated.


----------



## 86mr2

Jeanious2009 said:


> its in a whole different language and currency


Holy ****! Is that even allowed in this day and age? Imagine, a different language and everything. When will those furriners learn?


----------



## TrickyRicky

86mr2 said:


> Holy ****! Is that even allowed in this day and age? Imagine, a different language and everything. When will those furriners learn?


Well I dont know about you, but I dont trust anyone overseas. Imagine getting ****ed and your 1500.00 is long gone. Who the hell are you gonna call, the FBI???? Like they dont have bigger fish to fry. There will be NO ONE to help you, trust me. How the hell are you going to get intouch with them if they change their name/business/number/ect. And am pretty sure the authorities in that country wont give a **** about some foreigners money. I wish you go ahead and buy a few LP's overseas, then we will see who will be laughing.:laugh:


----------



## TrickyRicky

DAT said:


> 302 IQ $290 - need to update the colors
> 
> 652IQ $325 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray
> 
> LP50 $325 - Plum Crazy
> 
> 452IQ $325 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray
> 
> Lp50z $340 - Plum Crazy
> 
> *992IQ $400 *- Black is only color right now maybe I'll let go a few white models??..
> 
> 4253IQ $400 - mostly Plum Crazy + a few Gray
> 
> all prices + cost of shipping to you.
> 
> These are new in the box !!


Also there are a few 992IQ's on LinearPower.com for sale for 325.00-375.00, I rather buy them straight from LP's website than some overseas website. Who knows whos running that overseas website.


----------



## bobduch

DAT said:


> my LP Collection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hit the goldmine


And we thought Fort Knox only stored GOLD.


----------



## SteveLPfreak

DAT said:


> I local friend of mine order 13 amps they are supposed to be here next week.
> 
> Will check everyone updated.


Don't need any LP's. Was just fishin' cause I saw that pic for the original thread several weeks ago. Keep us posted. I am really curious to see if they actual arrive.


----------



## bass_lover1

DAT,

The prices you listed, if you (or your friend) actually DID get them from that website, he's upping the price quite substantially, Like an extra $160 bucks on the 992IQ.


----------



## Genxx

Jeanious2009 said:


> Like I said before, his the only owner/co of a company that pays attention and replies to all emails sent to him.


Wrong. You forgot about Zapco and Zed. They do the same thing email and get a reply.

BTW Zapco is the best.


----------



## OSN

Genxx said:


> Wrong. You forgot about Zapco and Zed. They do the same thing email and get a reply.
> 
> BTW Zapco is the best.


I'm not going to get into a Zapco > ______ thing because I just don't have a wealth of context for comparison, but Robert was most excellent in helping me out when considering an amp purchase. I told him I was buying BNIB DC Refs, but not from authorized dealer, and needed the software CD for programming the amps. He set me up with getting the software, and even ran a search on the serial numbers of the amps I was buying and confirmed their origins and clean history. I don't have warranty because I didn't buy authorized, but he gave me price estimates for repairs to set my mind at ease. I saved a bunch of cash and he set my mind at ease about it. Top notch, Robert.


----------



## ChrisB

Genxx said:


> Wrong. You forgot about Zapco and Zed. They do the same thing email and get a reply.
> 
> BTW Zapco is the best.


Kenny Lanclos from Lunar Amplifiers also responds via email and will answer your questions over the phone I just hope I didn't insult him by referring to him as Kenneth in my last email


----------



## TrickyRicky

Genxx said:


> Wrong. You forgot about Zapco and Zed. They do the same thing email and get a reply.
> 
> BTW Zapco is the best.


Sorry about that. I needed to do more research/tries before I posted that. But I have never call/emailed Zapco or Zed. I know Zed is considered a legend also in the amp world. But every time I email ray he responds and lets me know whats best with what am working with.

As far as Zapco being the best, I can judge that, because I never have had the chance of listening to a Zapco or Zed amp. I hear a lot of good things about it but thats it. I have listen to a bunch of LP amps and I have to say I love the SQ of the 2502IQ. I have five of them and Ray is modding them all as we speak. I cant wait to hear them modded, their modds are compared to be very close to a 2.2HV, but maybe with a little better Noise To Ratio and Power.


----------



## kappa546

i won't lie, i'm pretty jealous of 5 modded 2502iq's


----------



## TrickyRicky

kappa546 said:


> i won't lie, i'm pretty jealous of 5 modded 2502iq's


And thats not even all. Ray will aslo be modding three 2202IQ's and one 1502IQ. Thats a total of 9 modded LP's, and all use the TO3's (for those who dont know). And yes its my whole allowance, I spent all of my income tax on buying them and now modding them. It's an addiction to SQ, .


----------



## DAT

i'm pretty jealous of 5 modded 2502iq's, hell modded or not I'm still jealous 

Anyone know which models Linear Power put out that used the TO3's?


----------



## OSN

Jeanious2009 said:


> And thats not even all. Ray will aslo be modding three 2202IQ's and one 1502IQ. Thats a total of 9 modded LP's, and all use the TO3's (for those who dont know). And yes its my whole allowance, I spent all of my income tax on buying them and now modding them. It's an addiction to SQ, .


Hey, is Ray modding any amps for you? I don't know if you mentioned it.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> And thats not even all. Ray will aslo be modding three 2202IQ's and one 1502IQ. Thats a total of 9 modded LP's, and *all use the TO3's* (for those who dont know). And yes its my whole allowance, I spent all of my income tax on buying them and now modding them. It's an addiction to SQ, .


The 1502IQ uses TO3 cans?

Just asking because I happen to have a few of them myself:


















And I don't remember them using T03 cans:


----------



## kappa546

Jeanious2009 said:


> And thats not even all. Ray will aslo be modding three 2202IQ's and one 1502IQ. Thats a total of 9 modded LP's, and all use the TO3's (for those who dont know). And yes its my whole allowance, I spent all of my income tax on buying them and now modding them. It's an addiction to SQ, .


I love those little 1502iq especially modded because they are so small and pack succh a punch. sadly i've sold the majority of my LP's that were sitting around, down to my rare/irreplaceable ones 



DAT said:


> i'm pretty jealous of 5 modded 2502iq's, hell modded or not I'm still jealous
> 
> Anyone know which models Linear Power put out that used the TO3's?


oh god this will be a list. smallest is the 1002, the 1752, 2002, 2202, 2502, 2.2hv, 5002, 8002sw, 3.2hv, 4.1hvs and the different variations/updates of each.


----------



## kappa546

1502's don't. by the way, did i sell you that purple one? looks awfully familiar.


----------



## imjustjason

kappa546 said:


> oh god this will be a list. smallest is the 1002, the 1752, 2002, 2202, 2502, 2.2hv, 5002, 8002sw, 3.2hv, 4.1hvs and the different variations/updates of each.


3002's used TO-3's too.


----------



## ChrisB

kappa546 said:


> 1502's don't. by the way, did i sell you that purple one? looks awfully familiar.


No, I purchased that one off of eGay. It came to me with a bad speaker relay and a non-adjustable gain pot. Now I need to change the audio input filter caps


----------



## TrickyRicky

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Hey, is Ray modding any amps for you? I don't know if you mentioned it.


Yep, Mr. Rayfield is modding my LP's, which his the only person I would trust with my amps. 

This is going to make everyone jealous, he is going to add power distributor blocks on all 9 amps. This means no more short power/ground wires or messy tape connections, eat your heart out guys.

Dont worry, as soon as I get them back (which should be by the end of this month) I will post pictures of the modds.


----------



## Mooble

kappa546 said:


> smallest is the 1002, the 1752, 2002, 2202, 2502, 2.2hv, 5002, 8002sw, 3.2hv, 4.1hvs and the different variations/updates of each.


Nope, I've got one better. The 901 is all can as is the 1501.


----------



## DAT

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yep, Mr. Rayfield is modding my LP's, which his the only person I would trust with my amps.
> 
> This is going to make everyone jealous, *he is going to add power distributor blocks on all 9 amps*. This means no more short power/ground wires or messy tape connections, eat your heart out guys.
> 
> Dont worry, as soon as I get them back (which should be by the end of this month) I will post pictures of the modds.




*he is going to add power distributor blocks on all 9 amps*

Did i tell you that you really suck ? 


just kidding your alright. that would be a good idea with the short ground and power wires out of my LP's now. it would look cleaner for my installs also.


----------



## TrickyRicky

DAT said:


> *he is going to add power distributor blocks on all 9 amps*
> 
> Did i tell you that you really suck ?
> 
> 
> just kidding your alright. that would a good idea with the short gorund and power wires out of my LP's would look cleaner for my installs also.


Yep it will look 10x better. They will use the 2.2HV power terminals blocks.


----------



## imjustjason

Well guys. I have attempted to mend the fence with Ray. I have apologized openly in this thread (post 445) and privately this morning in an email. 

I honestly feel I have done nothing wrong and think Ray just misunderstood my statements. Ray felt that I personally attacked him and his perception is his reality, so I have tried to do the right thing and apologize.

It's a truth that he was a valuable asset to this forum and his knowledge in the industry is very helpful. In my email apology to him this morning I stated that I would stay out of this thread and he would no longer have to deal with me in any way. So now it's on Ray himself to put this all behind us and move on so you guys can continue to benefit from his knowledge.


----------



## Oliver

imjustjason said:


> Well guys. I have attempted to mend the fence with Ray. I have apologized openly in this thread (post 445) and privately this morning in an email.
> 
> I honestly feel I have done nothing wrong and think Ray just misunderstood my statements. Ray felt that I personally attacked him and his perception is his reality, so I have tried to do the right thing and apologize.
> 
> It's a truth that he was a valuable asset to this forum and his knowledge in the industry is very helpful. In my email apology to him this morning I stated that I would stay out of this thread and he would no longer have to deal with me in any way. So now it's on Ray himself to put this all behind us and move on so you guys can continue to benefit from his knowledge.


Bravo !!

That was very magnaminous , {is the virtue of being great of mind and heart. It encompasses, usually, a refusal to be petty, a willingness to face danger, and actions for noble purposes}of you

We'll have to wait and see !


----------



## LinearPower

DAT said:


> i'm pretty jealous of 5 modded 2502iq's, hell modded or not I'm still jealous
> 
> Anyone know which models Linear Power put out that used the TO3's?


model 90, model 150, model 300, 901, 1501, 1002, 2002, 2120, 2121, 1752, 2202, 2202IQ, 2502IQ, 2.2HV, 3001, 3002, 5002, 5002IQ, 502HV, 3.2HV, 8002SW, 4.1HVS


----------



## LinearPower

imjustjason said:


> Well guys. I have attempted to mend the fence with Ray. I have apologized openly in this thread (post 445) and privately this morning in an email.
> 
> I honestly feel I have done nothing wrong and think Ray just misunderstood my statements. Ray felt that I personally attacked him and his perception is his reality, so I have tried to do the right thing and apologize.
> 
> It's a truth that he was a valuable asset to this forum and his knowledge in the industry is very helpful. In my email apology to him this morning I stated that I would stay out of this thread and he would no longer have to deal with me in any way. So now it's on Ray himself to put this all behind us and move on so you guys can continue to benefit from his knowledge.


I havn't had time to get online till today, but I missed that e-mail. Any way i am here, a accept your apology.


----------



## Oliver

Hi Ray,

Have you heard of any issues with power for the LPs in small foreign cars?


----------



## ChrisB

a$$hole said:


> Hi Ray,
> 
> Have you heard of any issues with power for the LPs in small foreign cars?


Hey a$$hole, don't tell me you are worried that your Civic won't support your 8002SW? Oh, unless you do something to remove Honda's electrical load detector (ELD) and replace your alternator with a High Output alternator, it is highly likely that your stock electrical *WILL NOT* support the 8002SW! 

Even worse, I think you have an automatic transmission and I am not away of any tuners who will program an ODB1 ECU for an automatic


----------



## Oliver

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Hey a$$hole, don't tell me you are worried that your Civic won't support your 8002SW? Oh, unless you do something to remove Honda's electrical load detector (ELD) and replace your alternator with a High Output alternator, it is highly likely that your stock electrical *WILL NOT* support the 8002SW!
> 
> Even worse, I think you have an automatic transmission and I am not away of any tuners who will program an ODB1 ECU for an automatic


I have invested in some new electrical [ battery, alternator, wires, etc.., ]

I'm sure the car will do what I need it to, just a matter of how far I'm willing to go

Thanks for replying !


----------



## ChrisB

a$$hole said:


> I have invested in some new electrical [ battery, alternator, wires, etc.., ]
> 
> I'm sure the car will do what I need it to, just a matter of how far I'm willing to go
> 
> Thanks for replying !


If you run into the same "fun" that I did when swapping out the alternator you are probably going to hate life for a while. 

I had a FROZEN AC idler pulley bolt, my HO alternator had a smaller pulley resulting in me trying two different belts to get it right, the service manual specified the wrong torque value for the power steering pump resulting in a bolt with a sheered off head... I am sure there are a few other things I left out of there, but those were the highlights of my "fun".

At least my ODB2a to ODB1 conversion harness and P28 ECU worked fine to remove the ELD (knock on wood)

ETA: If they ever start testing for emissions in my area, I am going to have to put my stock P2P ECU back in there for test day. At least that is only a 10 minute swap


----------



## TrickyRicky

Oh man, thank god, Ray is back!!


----------



## LinearPower

a$$hole said:


> Hi Ray,
> 
> Have you heard of any issues with power for the LPs in small foreign cars?


What kind of issues?

As a rule of thumb we have always told anyone running a 5002 or bigger amp to add one additonal battery, if using multiple larger amps add additional batteries.


----------



## bass_lover1

LinearPower said:


> What kind of issues?
> 
> As a rule of thumb we have always told anyone running a 5002 or bigger amp to add one additonal battery, if using multiple larger amps add additional batteries.


No yellow tops, or so I've heard.....


----------



## TrickyRicky

bass_lover1 said:


> No yellow tops, or so I've heard.....


What good batteries to use are recommended guys? I plan on running 4-5 amplifiers.


----------



## LinearPower

bass_lover1 said:


> No yellow tops, or so I've heard.....


Use what you want in the way of batteries, there are advantages and dis-advantages from different technologies. Rule of thumb again, lead in contact with acid makes energy, the larger the contact area (more plates and acid) the more enregy and the longer reserve time. Bigger and heavier batties are better. You want Reserve time and CCA.
Recombant Glass Matt, gell cell and spiral cell technology batteries have the advantage of no leaks, no spill, no vapor,(or minimal issues of these) but have a higher internal resisitance than liquid lead acid batteries. The lower the internal resistance the more power dissapated in the same time period. In other words dump more power quicker. 
It is understood that in some situations liquid lead acid batteries may not be the best choice due to location, but if all possible I would always pick liquid over gell.

We had a dealer one time with a SPL car that used 4 spiral cell batteries, the first 3 weeks of contests were fine , then he slowly lost SPL, he cahnged speakers, sent amps back, but still low SPL, he changed to fresh batties and was up to the same SPL that he was before, same thing happen to him again in about another month. He move the batteries out of the inside of the car and made a rack underneath and went with 4 big 900 amp CCA liquid lead acids underneath the vehicle and never had another issue on his SPL.

This may not happen to everyone but it did happen to him.

The spiral cell batteries wraps the lead plates around themselves with a permiable insulator rolled with the plate to keep it from shorting. The acid is held in a gell suspension, the physics of the way this battery operates increases the internal resistance of the battery making it harder to give up large doses of current when needed. These batteries work well with small or medium sized amps, and regualted power supply amps and they are also suited for low to medium current draws over long periods (deep cycle use, trolling motors, lights etc...) Big amps with unregulated power supplies (used for headroom and dynamics) can ask for 4 to 5 times their nominal current ratings in very short periods of time, these style batteries do not like to give up pwor like these amps want power.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Genxx said:


> Wrong. You forgot about Zapco and Zed. They do the same thing email and get a reply.
> 
> BTW Zapco is the best.


John from TRU responds directly as well. 



OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Hey, is Ray modding any amps for you? I don't know if you mentioned it.





Jeanious2009 said:


> Yep, Mr. Rayfield is modding my LP's, which his the only person I would trust with my amps.
> 
> This is going to make everyone jealous, he is going to add power distributor blocks on all 9 amps. This means no more short power/ground wires or messy tape connections, eat your heart out guys.
> 
> Dont worry, as soon as I get them back (which should be by the end of this month) I will post pictures of the modds.



He was being sarcastic. Aparently you've told us no less than 4 times (in this thread alone) that he's modding your amps. We know you love LP, we know you're proud, but you're laying it on a little thick. 


*Edit



Jeanious2009 said:


> Oh man, thank god, Ray is back!!



See?


----------



## TrickyRicky

Sorry about that, but how many people can say they have 12 LP amps and 9 of them modded. I know there is a few people out there that have collections bigger than mine, but then again they have shops and use-to get speacial discounts when they were sold. I am just a normal average joe with a regular job that barely pays my bills.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> Sorry about that, but how many people can say they have 12 LP amps and 9 of them modded. I know there is a few people out there that have collections bigger than mine, but then again they have shops and use-to get speacial discounts when they were sold. I am just a normal average joe with a regular job that barely pays my bills.


No worries, at least you're enthusiastic about what you like.


----------



## MarkZ

You should probably create something yourself that you can be proud of. Being proud of other people's work is kind of...I don't know...sad?

Take up painting!


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> You should probably create something yourself that you can be proud of. Being proud of other people's work is kind of...I don't know...sad?
> 
> Take up painting!


I hope you wasnt talking/reffering to me. Because I love what I do for a living. And am very proud of what I do, since its going to be around for more than 50 years. Unlike amplifiers, my work will be standing for over 50 years. Since I build furrdowns, soffits, luxuries ceilings, ect for commercial bussiness that are going to be around for atleast 50 years. My last few projects were: Warren Theater, Firelake Grand Casino, Ford Center, ect.


----------



## OSN

Jeanious2009 said:


> I hope you wasnt talking/reffering to me. Because I love what I do for a living. And am very proud of what I do, since its going to be around for more than 50 years. Unlike amplifiers, my work will be standing for over 50 years. Since I build furrdowns, soffits, luxuries ceilings, ect for commercial bussiness that are going to be around for atleast 50 years. My last few projects were: Warren Theater, Firelake Grand Casino, Ford Center, ect.


That's you??? I saw over on soffitforums.com someone RAVING about the Ford Center ceiling details. 'I can't believe I will be able to get the one the only Jeanious2009 to decorate my ceiling!! He is the only one I trust with my ceiling!' Sorry, I couldn't resist. :laugh:


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Come on guys, lets not fault the guy for being excited.. Do you remember the last time you felt that much excitement? 

It's been a while for me to... lol... 

I think it's great that this guy has a nice collection of LP and is taking great expense in both collecting and modding them... It just means they will be around another 20yrs.. Something I can't say about the 5-6 smokestreams I've owned.. 

It may seem a little like bragging, but I just consider it excitement... I wish I could own 20 LP amps, but i'm happy with my 3 (soon to be 4) 

I know many of you in this thread have owned LP ever since and all... I respect that greatly... But, consider what you guys have in front of you.. newbs (to LP in my case) taking great interest in this wonderful OG company.. The oldschoolers know why they own and love LP... So why wouldn't you want to past that along... It just seems counter productive... 


I'm happy to see Ray back, I was rather disappointed at how much of this thread has gone... misunderstanding or not... so much splitting hairs... Almost seemed childish, but in very technical terms.. lol.. 

Thank you imjustjason, for stepping up...


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> That's you??? I saw over on soffitforums.com someone RAVING about the Ford Center ceiling details. 'I can't believe I will be able to get the one the only Jeanious2009 to decorate my ceiling!! He is the only one I trust with my ceiling!' Sorry, I couldn't resist. :laugh:


Wow dude, very tool'ish of you...:thumbsdown:

:thinking2:


----------



## SoCalBean420

I hope that I aint stepping on anyones toes, but I was wondering if you guys could tell me what these amps are worth as I'm going to be selling them soon.


----------



## benny

Give ya $20 and a green yoyo for all three!  Although, Mooble did have dibs on the yoyo...


----------



## SoCalBean420

benny said:


> Give ya $20 and a green yoyo for all three!  Although, Mooble did have dibs on the yoyo...


hahaha


----------



## dawgdan

Jeanious2009 said:


> I hope you wasnt talking/reffering to me. Because I love what I do for a living. And am very proud of what I do, since its going to be around for more than 50 years. Unlike amplifiers, my work will be standing for over 50 years. Since I build furrdowns, soffits, luxuries ceilings, ect for commercial bussiness that are going to be around for atleast 50 years. My last few projects were: Warren Theater, Firelake Grand Casino, Ford Center, ect.


How long do your ceilings last?


----------



## TrickyRicky

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> That's you??? I saw over on soffitforums.com someone RAVING about the Ford Center ceiling details. 'I can't believe I will be able to get the one the only Jeanious2009 to decorate my ceiling!! He is the only one I trust with my ceiling!' Sorry, I couldn't resist. :laugh:


No problem. Some people are turd/**** navigators (plumbers) and they seem to be proud of their jobs too. Now my collection, I seem to brag a lot about it, but come on 12 LP amps and 9 of them modded.


----------



## TrickyRicky

dawgdan said:


> How long do your ceilings last?


Depends if an Oklahoma tornado doesnt tear it apart, lol. But then it also depends what type of ceilings they are, but thats a whole 'nother website forum. lol.


----------



## TrickyRicky

benny said:


> Give ya $20 and a green yoyo for all three!  Although, Mooble did have dibs on the yoyo...


Thats a good one. But on a serious side, I wouldnt pay more than 100.00 for the 952, 150.00-200.00 for the 2202 and for the 901 probably 150.00.


----------



## [email protected]

Jeanious2009 said:


> No problem. Some people are turd/**** navigators (plumbers) and they seem to be proud of their jobs too. Now my collection,* I seem to brag a lot about it, but come on 12 LP amps and 9 of them modded*.


you want a ****in cookie?


----------



## TrickyRicky

BeatsDownLow said:


> you want a ****in cookie?


27 years old but talks like a 10 year old, what a shame. What is this world coming too.


----------



## ChrisB

Well, someone is going a little overboard with their bragging


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Well, someone is going a little overboard with their bragging


Yeah, I guess I went overboard. Maybe I should just keep it to myself and enjoy the music. I didnt know people could get that jealous and get mad over nothing. But I guess no one is interested in looking at a modded/customized LP amps. Sorry about that.


----------



## dawgdan

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah, I guess I went overboard. Maybe I should just keep it to myself and enjoy the music. I didnt know people could get that jealous and get mad over nothing. But I guess no one is interested in looking at a modded/customized LP amps. Sorry about that.


Perhaps you mistook apathy for jealousy.


----------



## Mooble

Jeanious2009 said:


> Thats a good one. But on a serious side, I wouldnt pay more than 100.00 for the 952, 150.00-200.00 for the 2202 and for the 901 probably 150.00.


In this market, yeah. I've sold a 952 for more, but $100 is about all you'll get for now.


----------



## TrickyRicky

dawgdan said:


> Perhaps you mistook apathy for jealousy.


I dont see myself as an individual that has an absence of interest or concern to emotional, social, or physical life. I dont know if thats what you meant or that the other guys where apathy. But either way it goes, I dont get mad over little stuff like that.


----------



## OSN

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Wow dude, very tool'ish of you...:thumbsdown:
> 
> :thinking2:


HAHA lighten up, Francis.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah, I guess I went overboard. Maybe I should just keep it to myself and enjoy the music. I didnt know people could get that jealous and get mad over nothing. But I guess no one is interested in looking at a modded/customized LP amps. Sorry about that.


The only part I thought was goofy was hearing it repeatedly. I'd love to see pics, I don't mind you telling us you have some cool stuff, but 4+ times in the same thread is excessive. 


That being said, it's really not that big of a deal. I'd poke fun at you for it, but those taking cheap shots ala "being proud of someone else's work" is just idiotic. I'm sure lots of people on this forum are proud of their possesions. Pride is one of the top motivators when making a purchase. 

I'd mention it once, until you have something new to add, such as: I just got them back, and check out these pics!


----------



## ChrisB

Just a word of caution... Be on the lookout for bad capacitors on these older amps:



















I believe I found the culprit behind my low volume audio breakup


----------



## LinearPower

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Just a word of caution... Be on the lookout for bad capacitors on these older amps:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe I found the culprit behind my low volume audio breakup


Thats a dried paint fleck from the paint seal on one of the case screws. That is not off that cap. Or that is what it appears to be, I don't think it's from that cap pictured though, its jsut stuck under it..


----------



## MaXaZoR

Ok, I need some help from the LP folks on this forum. I recently purchased a 952iq that running my Dynaudio 152's. Have the gains turned up about 1/2 way, and very happy with the output. Usually I only drive the car for 20 minutes or so to do some errands and it sounds great, but this weekend went for an 2 hour drive and after the first hour I start hearing my mids breaking up, almost like they are cutting in and out really quick. Shortly after they just go dead. (wtf) So turn off the sound for 10 minutes and turn them back on, sound kicks back in life is good for 20 minutes, then the LP overheats again. Is this common for LP's? I plan on putting a barrel fan on it, but an hour of play on moderate levels and its overheating?! That just seems strange, Any thoughts?


----------



## Mooble

Nope, not common. My LPs run pretty cool actually. They also have tons of reserve capacity built in.


----------



## ChrisB

Mooble said:


> Nope, not common. My LPs run pretty cool actually. They also have tons of reserve capacity built in.


I've noticed the same thing myself. All my LPs just get warm to the touch and that is it. Heck, my workaround for the one that broke up at low volume was to avoid low volume conditions:laugh: 

In the meantime, I am using something else until I can replace the filter caps. They need to be replaced on another amp too, so I am probably going to just order enough to do them all. Yeah... I know... poor me having to use another amp:bigcry:


----------



## bass_lover1

I've only had one LP overheat on me. Last summer, I was beating on my then RE XXX pretty hard for about 2 hours straight, and in the middle of summer the trunk of my car gets pretty damn hot, and it shut off on me. 

I turned the sub out completely off and just let it cool down for a few minutes, worked fine after that.


----------



## MaXaZoR

I find this to be very odd...I had an old A/D/S pq10 that would shut down on my after 3 hours of HARD playing, but an HOUR of just moderate playing seems a little ridiculous to me too, grant it is located under a amp rack where it doesn't get alot of room to breath, but I touch it the amp after it shuts down and it's still relatively warm, but not burning hot. I would think there is something wrong with the amp itself, but it play beautifullly during that first hour. Maybe need some input from LinearPower


----------



## ChrisB

I had another issue that I just thought about. I heard a rumor about counterfeit Linear Power amplifiers popping up on eBay and was wondering if anyone has ever run across any of them? 

I guess it could also be like one of my friends who purchased an Orion HCCA off of eBay and it had a Pyramid circuit board under the heat sink He was NOT happy!

ETA: I would love to see some pictures if anyone has encountered this!


----------



## SUX 2BU

Are 3002's a little on the rare side? I've read every post in this thread and I see that model hardly mentioned.

I talked to my brother about his letterman-style LP jacket. Seems it's at his wifes family farm back on the prairies  So probably no luck in selling that anytime soon. Sorry to any of those interested.


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> The only part I thought was goofy was hearing it repeatedly. I'd love to see pics, I don't mind you telling us you have some cool stuff, but 4+ times in the same thread is excessive.
> 
> 
> That being said, it's really not that big of a deal. I'd poke fun at you for it, but those taking cheap shots ala "being proud of someone else's work" is just idiotic. I'm sure lots of people on this forum are proud of their possesions. Pride is one of the top motivators when making a purchase.


Maybe. But those people are retarded. Why would anybody be PROUD of using their Mastercard? Seriously?


----------



## Mooble

MarkZ said:


> Why would anybody be PROUD of using their Mastercard? Seriously?


Because you put a lot of research into it and picked out the best amp for your situation, or maybe you got a bargain. As he said, millions of people are proud of things they didn't make. You didn't manufacturer your car did you? Millions of people are still proud of their stock cars.

I was proud of the NIB Soundstream Class A 6.0 that I bought for $75. All I did was spend money on it, but I bet you no one else on here can say they got one NIB for $75.


----------



## MarkZ

Mooble said:


> Because you put a lot of research into it and picked out the best amp for your situation, or maybe you got a bargain. As he said, millions of people are proud of things they didn't make. You didn't manufacturer your car did you? Millions of people are still proud of their stock cars.


It seems sort of a dumbass thing to be proud of though, doesn't it? Someone went out and picked a car they liked and paid for it. I can understand being proud of getting a bargain on something (in which case, you're proud of your bargain hunting skills, not so much the product).

But being proud of a PRODUCT is retarded. To me, it smacks of uncontrollable consumerism. Especially when someone buys, say, 9 amps of a particular brand just to store them in his closet, maybe to pull them out on special occasions and look at them lovingly.

Maybe some of these guys need to knock up a chick instead and be proud of what comes out. Or take up water colors. Or the tuba. 

Edit: Maybe these two guys should have learned how to play the tuba... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDpCT1tOqE


----------



## SUX 2BU

If nobody were proud of the product they purchase in the realm of SQ car audio, then we wouldn't go to the lengths and expense to display them like we do. Maybe you are the kind of guy to just hide stuff and not display anything, and find the joy in just experiencing the music. That's fine for you. To each their own. I'm proud of the 2 Alpine 3545 amps I own. Why? Since they came out and I was 13 I've always wanted at least one. Now 20 years later I can actually find and afford a couple and I'm proud and happy to own them. The fact that I got them for under $200 each is just a bonus. If cash wasn't a concern, I'd probably be happy to pay the $400+ people on Ebay pay for them. But anyway, yes, for some products I own, I'm happy and proud to own them. That's just me though. It's futile since it all doesn't matter after a person dies so consumerism as a whole is just silly when you think about it.


----------



## dawgdan

Being proud of the equipment you own and being boastful and wishing to have your ego stroked and feet kissed are two totally different things.

For example... I run a pair of Seas Lotus CW21EX001's for midbass duty.

Or:

I have a pair of the incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's in my doors. It's not every day that you see the incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's, especially in the US. When the incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's came out, Seas was just scratching the surface of the US market. You can read some glowing reviews about the incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's on this board. The incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's are basically the Lotus/car equivalent to the W21EX's that Seas made for home use. Only Seas modified the incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's to have a 4 ohm voice coil and a cone more suitable for car use. Other guys on here run some pretty nice drivers, but have I told you how rare the incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's are? If not, I guess no one is interested in some incredibly rare Seas Lotus CW21EX001's. 

See my point? If I sounded like that on a regular basis, I'd ask you to e-kick my ass.


----------



## Oliver

MaXaZoR said:


> Ok, I need some help from the LP folks on this forum. I recently purchased a 952iq that running my Dynaudio 152's. Have the gains turned up about 1/2 way, and very happy with the output. Usually I only drive the car for 20 minutes or so to do some errands and it sounds great, but this weekend went for an 2 hour drive and after the first hour I start hearing my mids breaking up, almost like they are cutting in and out really quick. Shortly after they just go dead. (wtf) So turn off the sound for 10 minutes and turn them back on, sound kicks back in life is good for 20 minutes, then the LP overheats again. Is this common for LP's? I plan on putting a barrel fan on it, but an hour of play on moderate levels and its overheating?! That just seems strange, Any thoughts?


Electrical system cannot keep up  [ battery and alternator will eventually DIE !! ] really basic stuff here !!

Since you are asking a girl to bench press over 200 pounds repeatedly and as quickly as she can [ eventually she tires out and drops the barbell on her pretty neck ]*

Ray does rebuilds and upgrades* so damage your amp and the rest of your electrical system 

Wanna do it quicker ? get a 4.1 HV ,and run that ... bwahahaha !!!!


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> It seems sort of a dumbass thing to be proud of though, doesn't it? Someone went out and picked a car they liked and paid for it. I can understand being proud of getting a bargain on something (in which case, you're proud of your bargain hunting skills, not so much the product). *<--- (Why would you be proud hunting skills or bargains if you get somethings thats a piece of **** at a low price??)*
> 
> But being proud of a PRODUCT is retarded. To me, it smacks of uncontrollable consumerism. Especially when someone buys, say, 9 amps of a particular brand just to store them in his closet, maybe to pull them out on special occasions and look at them lovingly.
> 
> Maybe some of these guys need to knock up a chick instead and be proud of what comes out.


This doesnt make any sense. Why do people wear Versace, Gucci, Burberry, Prada and the clothes have BIG logos or trademarks that everyone knows. When someone wears a Burberry Plaid shirt, you know they want attention and also have good taste or its like rubbing it in your face without saying nothing. Its the samething with amps, women, cars, ect.

Oh yeah, on my amps, yes I did get a great deal on all of them otherwise I would only have 1 or 2. And no am not going to keep them stored, they will be used on a few set-ups. I am proud that I got a great bargain, and not just that, that I got a really great product. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I havent seen any counterfit LP's. But I have seen counterfit Pioneer, Kenwood, Panasonic, JVC, Rockford. But anyone can notice a knockoff with a real on. I WOULDNT RECOMMEND BUYING ANY ELECTRONICS ON EBAY, especially when they dont show any internal/guts pictures. Or when the seller gives you the "here-say" like "Well this is my uncle's and I dont know how to test it". This is a big sign that states STAY AWAY AND DONT BUY.


----------



## TrickyRicky

bass_lover1 said:


> I've only had one LP overheat on me. Last summer, I was beating on my then RE XXX pretty hard for about 2 hours straight, and in the middle of summer the trunk of my car gets pretty damn hot, and it shut off on me.
> 
> I turned the sub out completely off and just let it cool down for a few minutes, worked fine after that.


A RE XXX, what size and which amplifier did you use? Thats a bad-ass subwoofer and requires a lot of power. And if I was to power something like that RE, I would defenetly use some barrel fans on the amplifier.


----------



## MarkZ

Jeanious2009 said:


> This doesnt make any sense. Why do people wear Versace, Gucci, Burberry, Prada and the clothes have BIG logos or trademarks that everyone knows. When someone wears a Burberry Plaid shirt, you know they want attention and also have good taste or its like rubbing it in your face without saying nothing. Its the samething with amps, women, cars, ect.


Some people do it because they have small-penis syndrome. And so they make sure that everybody knows about their big-name products. We call these people insecure suckers.

Others buy expensive things simply because they want a better quality product that they can't get at a cheaper price. These people usually don't feel the need to brag about the product they've bought. They're secure enough with themselves to be able to sit back and enjoy what that product does for them.


----------



## DAT

a$$hole said:


> Electrical system cannot keep up  [ battery and alternator will eventually DIE !! ] really basic stuff here !!
> 
> Since you are asking a girl to bench press over 200 pounds repeatedly and as quickly as she can [ eventually she tires out and drops the barbell on her pretty neck ]*
> 
> Ray does rebuilds and upgrades* so damage your amp and the rest of your electrical system
> 
> Wanna do it quicker ? get a 4.1 HV ,and run that ... bwahahaha !!!!


Nice 2202IQ or 250IQ would do wonders!


----------



## SoCalBean420

Jeanious2009 said:


> Thats a good one. But on a serious side, I wouldnt pay more than 100.00 for the 952, 150.00-200.00 for the 2202 and for the 901 probably 150.00.


Okay thank you very much, I'm going to try and sell them on my local CL listings.


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> Some people do it because they have small-penis syndrome. And so they make sure that everybody knows about their big-name products. We call these people insecure suckers.
> 
> Others buy expensive things simply because they want a better quality product that they can't get at a cheaper price. *These people usually don't feel the need to brag about the product they've bought*. They're secure enough with themselves to be able to sit back and enjoy what that product does for them.


Yeah because usually those are some rich motherfuckers, and they know its not work bragging since their rich friends can buy the product/item also. So theres no point in bragging in that situation. An might not brag because they spent retail, when "joe the plumber" got it for half price, lol.:laugh:


----------



## TrickyRicky

SoCalBean420 said:


> Okay thank you very much, I'm going to try and sell them on my local CL listings.


Good luck. Also if you ever run into any LP amps just remember that used LP's are like $1.00/per watt, or if modded $2-3/per watt. And am not talking about peak watts, am talking about the RMS LP listed.


----------



## LinearPower

MaXaZoR said:


> Ok, I need some help from the LP folks on this forum. I recently purchased a 952iq that running my Dynaudio 152's. Have the gains turned up about 1/2 way, and very happy with the output. Usually I only drive the car for 20 minutes or so to do some errands and it sounds great, but this weekend went for an 2 hour drive and after the first hour I start hearing my mids breaking up, almost like they are cutting in and out really quick. Shortly after they just go dead. (wtf) So turn off the sound for 10 minutes and turn them back on, sound kicks back in life is good for 20 minutes, then the LP overheats again. Is this common for LP's? I plan on putting a barrel fan on it, but an hour of play on moderate levels and its overheating?! That just seems strange, Any thoughts?


No, this is not normal. First, lets do some tests, do you have a multi-meter that reads ohms? If so test each one of your speaker wires and see what it says. Second, check the internal power supply taps and see where they are set. THis should match the speaker load you are runnig. How many speakers are playing per cahnnel? What type of passive crossovers are you running and do they over lap freqencies at any of the crossover points? Answer these things for me and I may be able to better diagnose the problem for you. Also measure from vehicle ground to each one of teh speaker wires and see waht it reads (should read infinte ohms, ie very very high meg ohms) Do all resistance testss with the speaker wires un-hooked from the amp.


----------



## LinearPower

SUX 2BU said:


> Are 3002's a little on the rare side? I've read every post in this thread and I see that model hardly mentioned.
> 
> I talked to my brother about his letterman-style LP jacket. Seems it's at his wifes family farm back on the prairies  So probably no luck in selling that anytime soon. Sorry to any of those interested.


The 3002 was not that popular of an amp, since it was still of the old style boards usinga single sided circuit board. It was not as reliable ass later products because of cracked solder joints causing issues over the years. Double sided boards for the most part remedy this problem. Also since it is a single sided board it is not a good candidate to modify so not many people chat much about it. It was a good amp, that did a ngood job other than that.


----------



## LinearPower

Jeanious2009 said:


> This doesnt make any sense. Why do people wear Versace, Gucci, Burberry, Prada and the clothes have BIG logos or trademarks that everyone knows. When someone wears a Burberry Plaid shirt, you know they want attention and also have good taste or its like rubbing it in your face without saying nothing. Its the samething with amps, women, cars, ect.
> 
> Oh yeah, on my amps, yes I did get a great deal on all of them otherwise I would only have 1 or 2. And no am not going to keep them stored, they will be used on a few set-ups. I am proud that I got a great bargain, and not just that, that I got a really great product.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I havent seen any counterfit LP's. But I have seen counterfit Pioneer, Kenwood, Panasonic, JVC, Rockford. But anyone can notice a knockoff with a real on. I WOULDNT RECOMMEND BUYING ANY ELECTRONICS ON EBAY, especially when they dont show any internal/guts pictures. Or when the seller gives you the "here-say" like "Well this is my uncle's and I dont know how to test it". This is a big sign that states STAY AWAY AND DONT BUY.


If anyone sees any counterfet Linear Power, I would like to get all the information possible and pics. Who ever is building it will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


----------



## TrickyRicky

LinearPower said:


> If anyone sees any counterfet Linear Power, I would like to get all the information possible and pics. Who ever is building it will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


AMEN to that.


----------



## chad

LinearPower said:


> If anyone sees any counterfet Linear Power, I would like to get all the information possible and pics. Who ever is building it will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


As for you too, If you find them please notify us and inform us how to identify them. I have a great hatred for counterfeiters and would be more than happy to help search them out.


----------



## chad

MarkZ said:


> Some people do it because they have small-penis syndrome. And so they make sure that everybody knows about their big-name products. We call these people insecure suckers.


I buy the vast majority of my clothing at Farm And Fleet or Kohls.. I also hide my audio gear.

You know what that means.......


----------



## MarkZ

chad said:


> I buy the vast majority of my clothing at Farm And Fleet or Kohls.. I also hide my audio gear.
> 
> You know what that means.......


Yeah? Then explain your small feet.


----------



## ChrisB

You know, I almost purchased a t-shirt with the following written on it: "I use my huge d*ck to compensate for my sh*tty car"


----------



## chad

MarkZ said:


> Yeah? Then explain your small feet.


Not enough sun, too much shade from above


----------



## TrickyRicky

chad said:


> Not enough sun, too much shade from above


Thats a good one chad, I'll remember that one just incase some childdish 31year old says something like "explain your small feet".:laugh::laugh:


----------



## WRX/Z28

MarkZ said:


> Maybe. But those people are retarded. Why would anybody be PROUD of using their Mastercard? Seriously?


Because they are proud of the hard work it took to attain that gear. Not everyone goes out and charges up a storm on their credit card. Also, some people work hard for their money. Some harder than others. At the end of the day, those that worked hard for it, appreciate it more, and are proud of their possesions. 



MarkZ said:


> It seems sort of a dumbass thing to be proud of though, doesn't it? Someone went out and picked a car they liked and paid for it. I can understand being proud of getting a bargain on something (in which case, you're proud of your bargain hunting skills, not so much the product).
> 
> But being proud of a PRODUCT is retarded. To me, it smacks of uncontrollable consumerism. Especially when someone buys, say, 9 amps of a particular brand just to store them in his closet, maybe to pull them out on special occasions and look at them lovingly.
> 
> Maybe some of these guys need to knock up a chick instead and be proud of what comes out. Or take up water colors. Or the tuba.
> 
> Edit: Maybe these two guys should have learned how to play the tuba... YouTube - Car Ad with Andy Richter & James Adomian


I don't much understand being proud of a bargain. I understand being happy about a bargain, but really, what did you do to get that bargain? Spend more time searching ad's? Abuse the salesman trying to sell it to you? Spend hours haggling? What's there to be proud of there? Was that harder work for you than making the money to buy the product to begin with?




MarkZ said:


> Some people do it because they have small-penis syndrome. And so they make sure that everybody knows about their big-name products. We call these people insecure suckers.
> 
> Others buy expensive things simply because they want a better quality product that they can't get at a cheaper price. These people usually don't feel the need to brag about the product they've bought. They're secure enough with themselves to be able to sit back and enjoy what that product does for them.


Listen, people that buy most of the mentioned clothing line do it out of pride and prestige. Stop fooling yourself into thinking that people really believe those clothes are better quality, or last longer. Most people buying those clothes wear them for a season and toss them the next year in favor of the newest style. That's something idiotic to be proud of. Who gives two craps what you wear? Clothing is supposed to keep you warm and modest right? 


Anyone that says they are not proud of anything they've ever been able to purchase is either a liar, or is a priest/nun dedicated to a life of poverty. 

MarkZ, i'm sure you'll come up with every argument in the book, but without even knowing you, I can practically guarantee your hypocrisy is growing with every word. I'm 100% sure there are things you've bought that you are proud of.


----------



## TrickyRicky

WRX/Z28 said:


> Because they are proud of the hard work it took to attain that gear. Not everyone goes out and charges up a storm on their credit card. Also, some people work hard for their money. Some harder than others. At the end of the day, those that worked hard for it, appreciate it more, and are proud of their possesions.
> 
> Anyone that says they are not proud of anything they've ever been able to purchase is either a liar, or is a priest/nun dedicated to a life of poverty.
> 
> MarkZ, i'm sure you'll come up with every argument in the book, but without even knowing you, I can practically guarantee your hypocrisy is growing with every word. I'm 100% sure there are things you've bought that you are proud of.


I dont think he'll get the point. He's very childdish and his last couple of posts show that. I dont even think his really 31 years old, I think thats dogs years.:laugh:


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> Because they are proud of the hard work it took to attain that gear. Not everyone goes out and charges up a storm on their credit card. Also, some people work hard for their money. Some harder than others. At the end of the day, those that worked hard for it, appreciate it more, and are proud of their possesions.


So, let me get this straight. You're saying that someone is proud of all the amps they've collected because they're proud of the hard work it took to be able to afford those amps? 

I don't buy it. When people are proud of their hard work, we generally consider them ASSHOLES when they flaunt their money or possessions in people's faces. If they work some stupid office job and get paid six figures doing it, allowing them to go out and buy more expensive stuff than another guy, does that mean they worked harder than the guy working the construction job? Of course not.

And what about when a guy who doesn't work very hard spends a lot less money on a particular product than someone else? How can he be proud of the hard work that he did to be able to afford the product when he didn't pay as much for the same product? Can you only be proud of a product when you pay full price for it?

When people brag about the **** they have, and when they're "proud" that they own something, it's usually because they define themselves by their possessions. That youtube link I posted was a joke, of course, but I think it hammers the point home. It's funny precisely BECAUSE there are so many people who pull that ********! They collect expensive **** and then they show it off. People like that usually don't actually PRODUCE anything on their own, so they live vicariously through the possessions they acquire. It's sad.



> I don't much understand being proud of a bargain. I understand being happy about a bargain, but really, what did you do to get that bargain? Spend more time searching ad's? Abuse the salesman trying to sell it to you? Spend hours haggling? What's there to be proud of there? Was that harder work for you than making the money to buy the product to begin with?


Yeah, I don't really get being proud of getting a bargain either. That's something that someone else brought up. I know some people are proud of the bargains they get though. I don't really get it. But at least it's being proud of something you DID, rather than something that someone else did (ie. the producer of a product).



> Listen, people that buy most of the mentioned clothing line do it out of pride and prestige.


Then they're not exempt from what I'm saying either. What's your point? That there are douchebags all over? 



> Stop fooling yourself into thinking that people really believe those clothes are better quality, or last longer. Most people buying those clothes wear them for a season and toss them the next year in favor of the newest style. That's something idiotic to be proud of. Who gives two craps what you wear? Clothing is supposed to keep you warm and modest right?
> 
> Anyone that says they are not proud of anything they've ever been able to purchase is either a liar, or is a priest/nun dedicated to a life of poverty.


Or isn't insecure. This may shock you to learn, but some of us can actually buy things that give us some form of enjoyment or provide utility, and not puff out our chests afterwards as if we've accomplished something. You can get excited about something you bought. The line between being excited and being a douchebag is somewhere around when you start thinking you're king **** because you swiped your mastercard through the machine.



> MarkZ, i'm sure you'll come up with every argument in the book, but without even knowing you, I can practically guarantee your hypocrisy is growing with every word. I'm 100% sure there are things you've bought that you are proud of.


Then you'd be wrong. Congratulations.


----------



## MarkZ

Jeanious2009 said:


> I dont think he'll get the point. He's very childdish and his last couple of posts show that. I dont even think his really 31 years old, I think thats dogs years.:laugh:


Who the **** are you anyway? Aside from the Linear Power cheerleader. Aren't you supposed to have a minimum post count in this forum before you start giving company representatives analingus?


----------



## WRX/Z28

This was the type of reply I expected from you. Wordy, and full of contempt, but completely off the mark. (no pun intended)

I really don't need to hear anything you have to say, I don't buy it. At some point in your life, you were proud of some material possesion. The longer and wordier your answers are, the more sure of it I can be. 

When you were a little kid, and you had some matchbox car that everyone else wanted, you were proud of it. (modify matchbox car for something you really had)

Guarantee'd you will deny it. At the end of the day, we both know you're FOS.


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> This was the type of reply I expected from you. Wordy, and full of contempt, but completely off the mark. (no pun intended)
> 
> I really don't need to hear anything you have to say, I don't buy it. At some point in your life, you were proud of some material possesion. The longer and wordier your answers are, the more sure of it I can be.
> 
> When you were a little kid, and you had some matchbox car that everyone else wanted, you were proud of it. (modify matchbox car for something you really had)
> 
> Guarantee'd you will deny it. At the end of the day, we both know you're FOS.


Actually, it was a pretty diplomatic reply, considering that you closed with calling me a hypocrite. Don't I get any bonus points?

You may be right. When I was 7, I may have been really proud of my matchbox cars. But then I grew up. Did you?


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> Actually, it was a pretty diplomatic reply, considering that you closed with calling me a hypocrite. Don't I get any bonus points?
> 
> You may be right. When I was 7, I may have been really proud of my matchbox cars. But then I grew up. Did you?


Grew up????? Are you sure about that. Your way of thinking is the way of a 12 year old. 

And for your cheerleader comment, I guess your right. Am a ****ing cheerleader for LP, there happy, I hope you bust a nut thinking about that. Your comments are more like jokes to me, and I hope to others too. Thats what your are, a big joke.:laugh::laugh:


----------



## WRX/Z28

MarkZ said:


> Actually, it was a pretty diplomatic reply, considering that you closed with calling me a hypocrite. Don't I get any bonus points?
> 
> You may be right. When I was 7, I may have been really proud of my matchbox cars. But then I grew up. Did you?


I could care less about diplomacy and bonus points are for pussies. 

My maturity is at a level where I don't need to bash others for having pride in their possesions. I have no need to belittle others for any of their choices. It does nothing for me.

I'm not sure what you get out of doing that, but i'm sure it's not much. Maybe it makes you feel like the better man? Maybe it's your way of pumping yourself up?

My best guess is that you have some sort of jealousy towards anyone that makes more money than you do. That's a horrible way to live your life. I could care less about that stuff. 

I have friends that make far less than I do, and friends that make far more. At the end of the day, both groups are proud of their toys. Hell, there's even a thread for it here ( http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/36261-old-school-showoff-thread.html ) . You should head over there and call them all douchebags. Best of luck with the warm welcome you'll receive.


----------



## TrickyRicky

WRX/Z28 said:


> I could care less about diplomacy and bonus points are for pussies.
> 
> My maturity is at a level where I don't need to bash others for having pride in their possesions. I have no need to belittle others for any of their choices. It does nothing for me.
> 
> I'm not sure what you get out of doing that, but i'm sure it's not much. Maybe it makes you feel like the better man? Maybe it's your way of pumping yourself up?
> 
> My best guess is that you have some sort of jealousy towards anyone that makes more money than you do. That's a horrible way to live your life. I could care less about that stuff.
> 
> I have friends that make far less than I do, and friends that make far more. At the end of the day, both groups are proud of their toys. Hell, there's even a thread for it here ( http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/36261-old-school-showoff-thread.html ) . You should head over there and call them all douchebags. Best of luck with the warm welcome you'll receive.


I totally agree with you. I guess he is jealous that others have more prized possisions (by that I mean anything that one considers prized possesions to them) than him. Meaning he doesnt have anything to be proud of so he just gets mad at other people who do. Thats why I just laugh at everything he states.


----------



## [email protected]

MarkZ said:


> Actually, it was a pretty diplomatic reply, considering that you closed with calling me a hypocrite. Don't I get any bonus points?
> 
> *You may be right. When I was 7, I may have been really proud of my matchbox cars. But then I grew up. Did you?*


That is great there:laugh:


----------



## [email protected]

WRX/Z28 said:


> I could care less about diplomacy and bonus points are for pussies.
> 
> My maturity is at a level where I don't need to bash others for having pride in their possesions. I have no need to belittle others for any of their choices. It does nothing for me.
> 
> I'm not sure what you get out of doing that, but i'm sure it's not much. Maybe it makes you feel like the better man? Maybe it's your way of pumping yourself up?
> 
> My best guess is that you have some sort of jealousy towards anyone that makes more money than you do. That's a horrible way to live your life. I could care less about that stuff.
> 
> *I have friends that make far less than I do, and friends that make far more. At the end of the day, both groups are proud of their toys. Hell, there's even a thread for it here ( http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/36261-old-school-showoff-thread.html ) . You should head over there and call them all douchebags. Best of luck with the warm welcome you'll receive*.



I dont see anybody in that thread that posts what they have over and over


----------



## ChrisB

Now that I think about it.... I tossed my hot wheels and star wars collection when my grandfather got rid of the office trailer he was using as storage for his shop. I was about 14 or 15 at the time.... Come to think of it, I could have made a FORTUNE on those items had i kept them another 20 years


----------



## chad

jeanious has officially tspenced this thread.


----------



## WRX/Z28

BeatsDownLow said:


> That is great there:laugh:


Really? 



BeatsDownLow said:


> I dont see anybody in that thread that posts what they have over and over


True. I know it was annoying, but come on, haven't you ever been excited about something you like? Hell, If I find a new band I love, I get all excited and play it for everyone. Did I write the music? 

Everyone in that thread is proud of their toys. Hence all the pictures...



chad said:


> jeanious has officially tspenced this thread.


Awww come on, he's not that bad. T-spence is on another level. Jeanious is just enthusiastic I think.


----------



## TrickyRicky

chad said:


> jeanious has officially tspenced this thread.


First I have no clue what tspenced (i suppost its a computer/geek term) means so I will assume is extended? But if its something bad, I guess I will just go ahead and laugh at that too. I have no reason to argue or bash or bully online, thats not what I do. I dont get a kick out of bullying like other do, they know who they are.


----------



## chad

oh, you will figure it out once you wander outside this thread


----------



## 86mr2

MarkZ said:


> Aren't you supposed to have a minimum post count in this forum before you start giving company representatives analingus?


Now THAT is sig-worthy!


----------



## [email protected]

WRX/Z28 said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> True. I know it was annoying, but come on, haven't you ever been excited about something you like? Hell, If I find a new band I love, I get all excited and play it for everyone. Did I write the music?
> 
> Everyone in that thread is proud of their toys. Hence all the pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> Awww come on, he's not that bad. T-spence is on another level. Jeanious is just enthusiastic I think.



I thought it was kinda funny and made the point come across well

I know they are but it seems like he wanted us to look up to him or be jealous of what he has, which I find kinda gay


----------



## OSN

WRX/Z28 said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> True. I know it was annoying, but come on, haven't you ever been excited about something you like? Hell, If I find a new band I love, I get all excited and play it for everyone. Did I write the music?
> 
> Everyone in that thread is proud of their toys. Hence all the pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> Awww come on, he's not that bad. T-spence is on another level. Jeanious is just enthusiastic I think.


I will agree he's not as bad as T-spence. The thread did, however, get completely derailed talking about whether he was being stalker-ish or just overly enthusiastic, past the point of control, about what he's worked to attain.


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> I could care less about diplomacy and bonus points are for pussies.
> 
> My maturity is at a level where I don't need to bash others for having pride in their possesions. I have no need to belittle others for any of their choices. It does nothing for me.
> 
> I'm not sure what you get out of doing that, but i'm sure it's not much. Maybe it makes you feel like the better man? Maybe it's your way of pumping yourself up?
> 
> My best guess is that you have some sort of jealousy towards anyone that makes more money than you do. That's a horrible way to live your life. I could care less about that stuff.
> 
> I have friends that make far less than I do, and friends that make far more. At the end of the day, both groups are proud of their toys. Hell, there's even a thread for it here ( http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/36261-old-school-showoff-thread.html ) . You should head over there and call them all douchebags. Best of luck with the warm welcome you'll receive.


Hey! I like that thread!

I also like that you have no idea what I've been talking about this whole time. It makes me feel like we can find a common ground somewhere.

I already said this once, but I'll say it again because I guess you missed it the first time. There's a difference between being excited about a new purchase or liking a product you own (like most of the people in that thread), versus taking "pride" in what you've bought and bragging about it. Pride is not an emotion that should be attached to the ownership of an amp. That's just retarded. And that's really been my one and only point all along.

This may have eluded you, but "showoff" is pretty much tongue in cheek in that thread. The word "showoff" generally has a negative connotation (and for good reason), especially when used as a noun. People are "showing off" things because, well, this is a forum full of audio enthusiasts and so people are displaying things that they think other people will find interesting -- that is, after all, what the thread is ASKING people to do. Many of us believe that some of the older equipment had certain virtues. And there's also some nostalgia involved. 

Maybe there are a few people in that thread whose dick feels just a little longer after they've "shown off" equipment, but that's not the sense I get from most of the people who have SHARED.

Anyway, you're being way too defensive over this whole thing. I appreciate the little psychoanalysis thing you've done. I'm gonna print it out and frame it, it's so good. You've somehow managed to turn the whole point I've made into something where I cry myself to sleep because I don't make much money or something. So, I guess you're saying I'm bullshitting everything because I wish I could afford 9 LP amps to stick in my closet? That's an awfully convoluted theory you've got there. In medical school, they like to talk about making diagnoses where, when you hear hoofbeats, you think horses and not zebras. It seems your diagnosis is something akin to a zebra with three heads and the body of a goat. I'm pretty sure it's more plausible that I'm actually telling the truth. But suit yourself.


----------



## MarkZ

Jeanious2009 said:


> I totally agree with you. I guess he is jealous that others have more prized possisions (by that I mean anything that one considers prized possesions to them) than him. Meaning he doesnt have anything to be proud of so he just gets mad at other people who do. Thats why I just laugh at everything he states.


"Toadie". Look it up.

When you're done with that, try to generate an original thought for once.


----------



## WRX/Z28

BeatsDownLow said:


> I thought it was kinda funny and made the point come across well
> 
> I know they are but it seems like he wanted us to look up to him or be jealous of what he has, which I find kinda gay



I guess my measure of maturity, and being a "grown up" has more to do with conduct and behaviour. Belittling others is not among my requirements for being a mature "grown up". 


I find that kinda gay too, and I definately voiced my opinion on that (in a more tactful way I think), but I don't think he deserves some of the excessive flak he's getting. I think he's gotten the point, although, judging from his signature, maybe not.


----------



## [email protected]

WRX/Z28 said:


> I guess my measure of maturity, and being a "grown up" has more to do with conduct and behaviour. Belittling others is not among my requirements for being a mature "grown up".
> 
> 
> I find that kinda gay too, and I definately voiced my opinion on that (in a more tactful way I think), but I don't think he deserves some of the excessive flak he's getting. I think he's gotten the point, although, judging from his signature, maybe not.


I hear ya I am down with being proud or excited about something, but there is a line to cross when you try to sell it off to people by repeating it

I dont have a big problem with it, I have commented on it and that is probably all you will hear about it from me

I would like to see it get back on topic again tho


----------



## TrickyRicky

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> I will agree he's not as bad as T-spence. The thread did, however, get completely derailed talking about whether he was being stalker-ish or just overly enthusiastic, past the point of control, about what he's worked to attain.


Well I didnt say kiss my ass because I have a few amps. Or nor do I feel like a king or better than anyone else in this earth. Its sad though that thats how some of ya'll think like that. Some have a lot of Zed amps, or Zapco amps or PPI's but that doesnt mean that they are gay because they have a lot of them or better than anyone. 

Like I said before, I WONT MENTION IT ANYMORE. I will just keep my enthusiastism to myself. If someone asks me on this thread about them I will just ingnore them since most of ya'll get jealous or think that am rubbing it in. Sorry about that, and I just hope this thread goes back to what the title is. And if you dont like it, go and create one that isnt about this title (since I cant meantion the actual word, because someone out there will think am rubbing it).


----------



## OSN

Jeanious2009 said:


> (since I cant meantion the actual word, because someone out there will think am rubbing it).


Oh, you're definitely rubbing it LOL


----------



## chad

this has certainly reached spence level.


----------



## TrickyRicky

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Oh, you're definitely rubbing it LOL


How, since am not the one with the signature list full with proudly own items. Atleast not anymore. Sorry, about that, I guess if it makes everyone happy, I dont have any amplifiers. Maybe this way we change the dawm subject and get back talking about the title of this thread, WHICH is Linear Power Discussion, oooops I said the magic word, I hope am not rubbing that in.


----------



## WRX/Z28

MarkZ said:


> Hey! I like that thread!


Why? It's full of people that are proud of their possesions. 



MarkZ said:


> I also like that you have no idea what I've been talking about this whole time. It makes me feel like we can find a common ground somewhere.


Sure, I have no idea what you've been talking about. I guess i've just been imagining you bashing the guy for having pride in a possesion. 



MarkZ said:


> I already said this once, but I'll say it again because I guess you missed it the first time. There's a difference between being excited about a new purchase or liking a product you own (like most of the people in that thread), versus taking "pride" in what you've bought and bragging about it. Pride is not an emotion that should be attached to the ownership of an amp. That's just retarded. And that's really been my one and only point all along.


Maybe he took it one step too far, but saying that noone else has pride in the gear they own, or the car they own, unless they are a douchbag? Insinuating that is just plain ridiculous. 



MarkZ said:


> This may have eluded you, but "showoff" is pretty much tongue in cheek in that thread. The word "showoff" generally has a negative connotation (and for good reason), especially when used as a noun. People are "showing off" things because, well, this is a forum full of audio enthusiasts and so people are displaying things that they think other people will find interesting -- that is, after all, what the thread is ASKING people to do. Many of us believe that some of the older equipment had certain virtues. And there's also some nostalgia involved.


You think it's "tongue in cheek"? Really??? Have you seen some of the pics in that thread? What does nostalgia entail? I guess people have nostalgia for things they have no pride in owning? (i'm sure that was your next statement)



MarkZ said:


> Maybe there are a few people in that thread whose dick feels just a little longer after they've "shown off" equipment, but that's not the sense I get from most of the people who have SHARED.


I think everyone likes to showboat once in a while, and that thread is the appropriate place. It's the place you can get away with it. (I guess I see your point that he was going overboard with it, but I don't think belittling him is the fix)



MarkZ said:


> Anyway, you're being way too defensive over this whole thing. I appreciate the little psychoanalysis thing you've done. I'm gonna print it out and frame it, it's so good. You've somehow managed to turn the whole point I've made into something where I cry myself to sleep because I don't make much money or something. So, I guess you're saying I'm bullshitting everything because I wish I could afford 9 LP amps to stick in my closet? That's an awfully convoluted theory you've got there. In medical school, they like to talk about making diagnoses where, when you hear hoofbeats, you think horses and not zebras. It seems your diagnosis is something akin to a zebra with three heads and the body of a goat. I'm pretty sure it's more plausible that I'm actually telling the truth. But suit yourself.


 Glad you enjoyed it. I bet i'm closer to the truth than you let on. You always strike me as an incredibly smug and self righteous individual. Sometimes you make good points, but other times you seem to like to assert yourself as the more intelligent individual. (IMO you come off as pompous and condescending in the process)

Theres a simpler saying from my childhood. "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are... it's a duck!"

You sir walk and talk like a verbal bully. Keep giving jeanious your pieces of wisdom, i'm sure he'll see the error of his ways and see your way of thinking. 

You're so elite...


----------



## MarkZ

Jeanious2009 said:


> How, since am not the one with the signature list full with proudly own items. Atleast not anymore. Sorry, about that, I guess if it makes everyone happy, I dont have any amplifiers. Maybe this way we change the dawm subject and get back talking about the title of this thread, WHICH is Linear Power Discussion, oooops I said the magic word, I hope am not rubbing that in.


Are you ok? You remind me of that guy on the side of the road talking to himself, getting pissed off about the grassy knoll or some ****. Although, with the advent of bluetooth, those guys get a lot less crap these days.

So I've single-handedly made it so you can't say the words "Linear Power" anymore?

There's no limit to what I can do with this power!


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> You're so elite...


If you insist.

It just struck me why you're so irrationally defensive in this thread. You're the self-annointed "amp whore"! It all makes sense to me now.


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> Are you ok? You remind me of that guy on the side of the road talking to himself, getting pissed off about the grassy knoll or some ****. Although, with the advent of bluetooth, those guys get a lot less crap these days.
> 
> So I've single-handedly made it so you can't say the words "Linear Power" anymore?
> 
> There's no limit to what I can do with this power!


Yeah, if its going to make you skitt skitt. And dream about it. :laugh:


----------



## TrickyRicky

MarkZ said:


> If you insist.
> 
> It just struck me why you're so irrationally defensive in this thread. You're the self-annointed "amp whore"! It all makes sense to me now.


Amp whore???? Oh my god, now what, someone else to attack. What a big ****ing loser. 31 years old and has nothing to due but talk ****, maybe thats what his mother fed him.:laugh:


----------



## Genxx

Jeanious2009 said:


> Well I didnt say kiss my ass because I have a few amps. Or nor do I feel like a king or better than anyone else in this earth. Its sad though that thats how some of ya'll think like that. Some have a lot of Zed amps, or Zapco amps or PPI's but that doesnt mean that they are gay because they have a lot of them or better than anyone.


That's the point right there. Because I have 30 amps on the shelf you don't here me running around telling everyone. They are mine, I like them, I know what I own and I don't need to tell anyone to make myself fell good about what I have. 



> Like I said before, I WONT MENTION IT ANYMORE. I will just keep my enthusiastism to myself. If someone asks me on this thread about them I will just ingnore them *since most of ya'll get jealous* or think that am rubbing it in. Sorry about that, and I just hope this thread goes back to what the title is. And if you dont like it, go and create one that isnt about this title (since I cant meantion the actual word, because someone out there will think am rubbing it).


No one is jealous of what you got. Plenty of us could have a bunch LP amps. Big freakin' deal who cares its a car amp.

You seem to think everyone is jealous of what you have.:laugh: You have it in your head everyone should be and you cannot except the fact that we don't give a **** if you own 100 of them. Its bunch of ****ing amps for Christ sakes not the holy grail or something jezz.

Great you got some amps, me to, and about 90% of the guys around here. You need us list them all to. 

Just stop man. Be happy with what you got, get it out of your head that because you have them makes you special, better, cooler, or gains you some respect.

You remind me of the Eddie Murphy skit-I got some ice cream you got no ice cream ect.

I don't care if you got the whole ****ing ice cream truck its a ****ing ice cream truck.

I got some LP, you got no LP-Who the **** cares, its a car audio amp that has a heat sink, some power supplies, gain pots, T-O3 ect.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Jeanious2009 said:


> How, since am not the one with the signature list full with proudly own items. Atleast not anymore. Sorry, about that, I guess if it makes everyone happy, I dont have any amplifiers. Maybe this way we change the dawm subject and get back talking about the title of this thread, WHICH is Linear Power Discussion, oooops I said the magic word, I hope am not rubbing that in.


Oh jeez. Dude, I don't know if I can even stand up for you anymore if you're going to pour on the sarcasm. 

Admit you went overboard with letting us know about your LP's, and the fact that Ray is going to modify them, and that he is the almighty supreme commander, and that you will drink the kool aid when he hands it to you. You keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper. 

Try to realize that you were acting a little goofy, and a little like that weenie kid in your high school class that got beat up for talking about things his dad owns. 



MarkZ said:


> If you insist.
> 
> It just struck me why you're so irrationally defensive in this thread. You're the self-annointed "amp whore"! It all makes sense to me now.


Yup, that's why man. Didn't have anything to do with disagreeing with you completely. lol.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Genxx said:


> That's the point right there. *Because I have 30 amps on the shelf *you don't here me running around telling everyone. They are mine, I like them, I know what I own and I don't need to tell anyone to make myself fell good about what I have.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is jealous of what you got. Plenty of us could have a bunch LP amps. Big freakin' deal who cares its a car amp.
> 
> You seem to think everyone is jealous of what you have.:laugh: You have it in your head everyone should be and you cannot except the fact that we don't give a **** if you own 100 of them. Its bunch of ****ing amps for Christ sakes not the holy grail or something jezz.
> 
> Great you got some amps, me to, and about 90% of the guys around here. You need us list them all to.
> 
> Just stop man. Be happy with what you got, get it out of your head that because you have them makes you special, better, cooler, or gains you some respect.


I guess you didnt get it either. When the **** did I say I was better than anyone. And why most of ya'll have the signature list full with items/amps yall own. Is that trying to make someone jealous, no. 

Oh and dont let MARKZ see that you have a bunch of them on the shelf, because he will go after you and call you a douchbag.


----------



## MarkZ

Well, you're easy enough to put on ignore. At least you got to double your post count in this thread though. I look forward to reading your...um...people responding to your posts for the next two weeks, or however long you decide to stick around.


----------



## OSN

Jeanious2009 said:


> How, since am not the one with the signature list full with proudly own items. Atleast not anymore. Sorry, about that, I guess if it makes everyone happy, I dont have any amplifiers. Maybe this way we change the dawm subject and get back talking about the title of this thread, WHICH is Linear Power Discussion, oooops I said the magic word, I hope am not rubbing that in.


Nobody said not to mention it or hide it from anyone, at least not that I read. Honestly, I didn't think anything of your posts until it starting to feel like Groundhog's Day when you were talking about Ray modding these amps for you over and over again. Perhaps it was my fault for reading the whole thread in one sitting, because that just magnified it for me. 

Don't sweat it, be an enthusiast. Most of the comments were just people having fun with you.


----------



## TrickyRicky

WRX/Z28 said:


> Oh jeez. Dude, I don't know if I can even stand up for you anymore if you're going to pour on the sarcasm.
> 
> *Admit you went overboard with letting us know about your LP's, and the fact that Ray is going to modify them*, and that he is the almighty supreme commander, and that you will drink the kool aid when he hands it to you. You keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
> 
> Try to realize that you were acting a little goofy, and a little like that weenie kid in your high school class that got beat up for talking about things his dad owns.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, that's why man. Didn't have anything to do with disagreeing with you completely. lol.


I did, only about 10 times, thats times than what I said about the amps. I only felt I needed to said that I was getting my equipment modded because this is a Linear Power discussion thread, I know I let everyone know 3 or 4 times, but like I said it before, sorry again and I will not mention a wear about my personal items.


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> Yup, that's why man. Didn't have anything to do with disagreeing with you completely. lol.


Cool. You realize you always had the option of disagreeing with me without resorting to calling me a liar, hypocrite, and whatever other **** you came up with that made sense to you at the time, right? When you got defensive, it prevented you from addressing the disagreement in a rational manner. And now I know why, that's all.


----------



## TrickyRicky

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Nobody said not to mention it or hide it from anyone, at least not that I read. Honestly, I didn't think anything of your posts until it starting to feel like Groundhog's Day when you were talking about Ray modding these amps for you over and over again. Perhaps it was my fault for reading the whole thread in one sitting, because that just magnified it for me.
> 
> *Don't sweat it, be an enthusiast. Most of the comments were just people having fun with you. *


Oh, I aint tripping about it, or worring. Am just having fun also. Its funny actually, how this thread is about a specific brand but here we are arguing like little kids.


----------



## WRX/Z28

MarkZ said:


> Cool. You realize you always had the option of disagreeing with me without resorting to calling me a liar, hypocrite, and whatever other **** you came up with that made sense to you at the time, right? When you got defensive, it prevented you from addressing the disagreement in a rational manner. And now I know why, that's all.


Wow. You have it all figured out. Good for you!

I still say you have pride in some of the things you own. There's nothing wrong with that, but attacking someone else for it is well... you know...


BTW, you realize you had the option of thinking jeanious was a wank for posting about his LP's 7,000 times without ****ting on him for it?


----------



## Genxx

Jeanious2009 said:


> I guess you didnt get it either. When the **** did I say I was better than anyone. And why most of ya'll have the signature list full with items/amps yall own. Is that trying to make someone jealous, no.
> 
> Oh and dont let MARKZ see that you have a bunch of them on the shelf, because he will go after you and call you a douchbag.


Well since you seem to have to know everything. 99% of my sig is to support my Teams and companies that have helped me out. So 99% of it is a big thank you to them.

However, don't see me posting just my sig in a thread now do you.

Just stop before you dig a deeper hole than you already have.

Best thing you can do is go take your amps and play in a different sand box, like when you took you Tonka trucks to a new sand box when you where a kid, when the other kids would not respect your new Tonka Truck and get jealous or give instant respect.

Come one guys "I got 10 Tonka trucks what you got" reply from the other kids "Shut the **** up before I break your Tonka truck" Your reply "I am going to play in a different sand box you guys suck".:laugh:


----------



## MarkZ

WRX/Z28 said:


> I still say you have pride in some of the things you own.


Yet, at the same time, you say you say you don't know me. Now that's a neat trick you did there.

I guess what you're really saying is that you find it inconceivable for someone NOT to take pride in products that they bought.

You've got it bad, man.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Genxx said:


> Well since you seem to have to know everything. 99% of my sig is to support my Teams and companies that have helped me out. So 99% of it is a big thank you to them.
> 
> However, don't see me posting just my sig in a thread now do you.
> 
> Just stop before you dig a deeper hole than you already have.
> 
> Best thing you can do is go take your amps and play in a different sand box, like when you took you Tonka trucks to a new sand box when you where a kid, when the other kids would not respect your new Tonka Truck and get jealous or give instant respect.
> 
> Come one guys "I got 10 Tonka trucks what you got" reply from the other kids "Shut the **** up before I break your Tonka truck" Your reply "I am going to play in a different sand box you guys suck".:laugh:


I guess so. If it makes everyone on this thread happy and talking back about the topic instead of bashing on one person. I got on this website for one reason and on reason only, and thats to get knowledge from some of yall audiophiles and see who is scamming people out there. So this will be my last post and hopefully we, I mean ya'll, can get back on topic.


----------



## WRX/Z28

MarkZ said:


> Yet, at the same time, you say you say you don't know me. Now that's a neat trick you did there.
> 
> I guess what you're really saying is that you find it inconceivable for someone NOT to take pride in products that they bought.
> 
> You've got it bad, man.


 I don't know you, but I know your personality type (the type that picks apart the faults of others). You probably were in Jeanious's shoes at one time, and someone else crapped on you for it, so you feel like you'll get some vindication by doing the same to others. 

I see no other reason why you decided to give him crap like you did. I don't see how it affected you at all, yet your condescending posts seemed to be aimed at comforting yourself, while trashing someone else.


----------



## ChrisB

chad said:


> this has certainly reached spence level.


Remember that lock you were talking about a few pages back?


----------



## shadowfactory

This thread has been ruined by fanboys and 'spencery.


----------



## ChrisB

shadowfactory said:


> This thread has been ruined by fanboys and 'spencery.


Yeah, but at least you are rocking the mau5 Deadmau5 > 'spencery any day


----------



## WRX/Z28

My apologies for my contributions to mucking up this thread. Sometimes I don't know how to let it go.


----------



## mjgonegm

Clean up on aisle 23-26


----------



## bass_lover1

mjgonegm said:


> Clean up on aisle 23-26


Sorry, my store ends at aisle 16 

If it were up to me, I'd start around post 560 to present and clean out the useless posts, so we can put this thread back to where it should be, instead of this childish bickering that has since ensued.


----------



## WRX/Z28

bass_lover1 said:


> Sorry, my store ends at aisle 16
> 
> If it were up to me, I'd start around post 560 to present and clean out the useless posts, so we can put this thread back to where it should be, instead of this childish bickering that has since ensued.


I agree. 

Again, I apologize for my douchebaggery...


----------



## kappa546

Request: buhleet the last 3 pages.


geez this thread is moving fast.


----------



## ChrisB

kappa546 said:


> Request: buhleet the last 3 pages.


Seconded... 

By the way, do I get a say in this since I started the thread?


----------



## baggedbirds

Well since this is the Linear Power thread, let me as this question. Since battery voltage to these amps was discussed and the ratings are done at 12.5V if I read/remember right and as the voltage increases they will continue to increase there output to a point. Could it be said that with my voltage at 15V charging that the LP's output would benefit?

Would this voltage benefit an LP processor also, say a modified PAII-R


----------



## bass_lover1

kappa546 said:


> Request: *buhleet* the last 3 pages.
> 
> 
> geez this thread is moving fast.



lol, I haven't watched those in forever


----------



## ChrisB

baggedbirds said:


> Well since this is the Linear Power thread, let me as this question. Since battery voltage to these amps was discussed and the ratings are done at 12.5V if I read/remember right and as the voltage increases they will continue to increase there output to a point. Could it be said that with my voltage at 15V charging that the LP's output would benefit?
> 
> Would this voltage benefit an LP processor also, say a modified PAII-R


Personally I wouldn't go over 14.5 volts, but, to answer your question, yes more voltage will be to your benefit with a high voltage amp!


----------



## SQ_MGB

baggedbirds said:


> Well since this is the Linear Power thread, let me as this question. Since battery voltage to these amps was discussed and the ratings are done at 12.5V if I read/remember right and as the voltage increases they will continue to increase there output to a point. Could it be said that with my voltage at 15V charging that the LP's output would benefit?
> 
> Would this voltage benefit an LP processor also, say a modified PAII-R


I can't remember exactly where the cutoff point is for over voltage in LP amps (I think it's around 15-16 volts), but I know they continue to make more power up to 13.8 volts. Any more than that, I can't speak to, but Ray would be able to tell you how much is too much, and what the benefits would be for higher voltage.

As far as the processors go, PAII, PAII-R, XO-2, XO-3, etc...I'm not sure you would gain anything with higher voltage, just as long as you don't have too much going into them, you should be fine. I'm sure I haven't been much help, but it's a start.

I'll shoot Ray an email and tell him about your question and he'll be able to give you the information you want.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Wow, I sure wish someone could re-name this the LP discussion FAIL thread... 


What a ****ing train wreck...


----------



## LinearPower

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Personally I wouldn't go over 14.5 volts, but, to answer your question, yes more voltage will be to your benefit with a high voltage amp!



DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT go over 14.4 volts!! The amps are designed for a maximum of this. There actually is more danger of damaging the amps when they are playing at low volume due to the increased charge voltage. As they play at higher volumes the amp is keeping the voltage low enough HOPEFULLY not to hurt.

EXAMPLE: 5002/5002IQ uses a 1 to 10 step up power supply transformer, meaning the amp will internally produce 10 volts for every 1 volt of battery voltage, so at 12 volts it produces 120 volts (+/-60 volts)at 14.4 volts it produces 144 volts (+/-72 volts) There are many components on the cicuit board that are rated for 75 volts continuous and peaks of 85 or 90, charging a normal 12 volt system takes 13.8 to 14.4 volts, charging a higher voltage system takes even more voltage, (16 volt battery has to charge at 18.2-18.5) this would put many parts over the edge and damage the amp, as it would with a lot of other amps too. This level of charge on a 5002 would produce 182 to 188 volts (+/-91 to +/-94 volts) well over the continous rating of most of the parts.


----------



## baggedbirds

ok then.

Not that it matters, but it is a 12V system the car just charges at that level while running.

Ray - any comment for the processors, is it the same as you were saying for the amps? I haven't had any damage from this voltage yet.

My amps are actually Zapco, but I have a LP 452 I thought about using for my tweets so I thought I would ask.


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> Well since this is the Linear Power thread, let me as this question. Since battery voltage to these amps was discussed and the ratings are done at 12.5V if I read/remember right and as the voltage increases they will continue to increase there output to a point. Could it be said that with my voltage at 15V charging that the LP's output would benefit?
> 
> Would this voltage benefit an LP processor also, say a modified PAII-R


I posted info about this under someone elses post, please check there for more of your answer, but no it will not benefit a proccessor, and itt could possibly damage an amp. Charging a 12 volt battery at 15 volts will cause it to sulfate and boil excessively reducing the life and performance of the battery. They are designed to be charged at 13.8 to 14.4 volts. Extra charge voltage will quickly dissappear when loaded by a larger amp(s) and be no benefit for extra power. The alternator does not support the eelctrical system, it is there to back up and condition the batttery, you high current demands come from the battery and that is what stablizes the voltage and current. Even a high output alternator (200-250 amp) will not produce enough current to support one BIG amp on its own, and with increased current flow is extra heat and more AC ripple coming form the alternator which is HIGHLY damaging to electronics also. The harder an alternator is worked the hotter and less effiecent it becomes and the more AC is passed thru the rectifier diodes in the alternator, this is why you hear the WHINE when your battery is low and your alternator is charging hard. All car electronics have a 12 volt input filter cap or caps to help filter out extra AC coming into the product, that the weak/poor condition battery is not filtering. Properly maintained batteries of adequate size for their use wil lfilter most all AC ripple out of the system.(stiffing caps are good for helping clean the DC voltage up, as well as, tightening up your bass resonse) 

When the capability of the 12 volt input filter caps is surpassed the caps overheat from trying to filter this AC and they explode, if this extra AC makes it past the 12 volt input stage and passes thru the transformer and into the main capacitor bank and output stage of the amp the damage is even more severe!


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> ok then.
> 
> Not that it matters, but it is a 12V system the car just charges at that level while running.
> 
> Ray - any comment for the processors, is it the same as you were saying for the amps? I haven't had any damage from this voltage yet.
> 
> My amps are actually Zapco, but I have a LP 452 I thought about using for my tweets so I thought I would ask.



Same electrical principles are going to hold true with any product, the damage does not have to be instant, it can take time for it to do its damage, depends on how high the internal voltage goes and how close it is to the voltage ratings of ANY given part, once that is exceeded on a continous basis it is just time before the part fails, may be a short time it may be a long time. High voltage is just as damaging as low voltage. This is why a lot of manufacturers will not warranty for either condition. US AMP was one which stated this policy explicitly. They had many problems from this type damage, I know this because I was their factory authorized servicer for many years, till they were sold out.


----------



## LinearPower

baggedbirds said:


> ok then.
> 
> Not that it matters, but it is a 12V system the car just charges at that level while running.
> 
> Ray - any comment for the processors, is it the same as you were saying for the amps? I haven't had any damage from this voltage yet.
> 
> My amps are actually Zapco, but I have a LP 452 I thought about using for my tweets so I thought I would ask.


Just to remind you, if you missed it in the middle of my other post, but you are doing damage to the battery itself, it is not made to charge at this voltage, it will actually reduce the life of the battery and decrese its performance over a period of time. You are causing excessive boiling of the acid which reduces the life of the battery and adds nothing for additional power.


----------



## SUX 2BU

LinearPower said:


> The 3002 was not that popular of an amp, since it was still of the old style boards usinga single sided circuit board. It was not as reliable ass later products because of cracked solder joints causing issues over the years. Double sided boards for the most part remedy this problem. Also since it is a single sided board it is not a good candidate to modify so not many people chat much about it. It was a good amp, that did a ngood job other than that.


Cool, thanks for the answer Ray.


----------



## MarkZ

LinearPower said:


> DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT go over 14.4 volts!! The amps are designed for a maximum of this. There actually is more danger of damaging the amps when they are playing at low volume due to the increased charge voltage. As they play at higher volumes the amp is keeping the voltage low enough HOPEFULLY not to hurt.
> 
> EXAMPLE: 5002/5002IQ uses a 1 to 10 step up power supply transformer, meaning the amp will internally produce 10 volts for every 1 volt of battery voltage, so at 12 volts it produces 120 volts (+/-60 volts)at 14.4 volts it produces 144 volts (+/-72 volts) There are many components on the cicuit board that are rated for 75 volts continuous and peaks of 85 or 90, charging a normal 12 volt system takes 13.8 to 14.4 volts, charging a higher voltage system takes even more voltage, (16 volt battery has to charge at 18.2-18.5) this would put many parts over the edge and damage the amp, as it would with a lot of other amps too. This level of charge on a 5002 would produce 182 to 188 volts (+/-91 to +/-94 volts) well over the continous rating of most of the parts.


How come you (or I guess most manufacturers?) don't use a crowbar chip after your fuse?


----------



## Oliver

MarkZ said:


> How come you (or I guess most manufacturers?) don't use a crowbar chip after your fuse?


Like this ?

quote:



* HOME
* SEARCH PATENTS
* CHEMICAL SEARCH
* DATA SERVICES
* HELP

Title:
CMOS *circuit with crowbar limiting function*
Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 5296766

Abstract:
Crowbar current in a CMOS amplifier circuit is limited during a transition state where one transistor is being turned on and another transistor is being turned off. The transistor that is being turned off is caused to pass through a midpoint state before the transistor that is being turned on is allowed to transition through a similar midpoint state. In one embodiment, independent gate voltages are applied to the P and N transistors of a CMOS amplifier. The gate voltages are independently controlled prior to passage through a midpoint level and then converge towards one another after passage through the midpoint state.

quote:


----------



## MarkZ

a$$hole said:


> Like this ?
> 
> quote:
> 
> 
> 
> * HOME
> * SEARCH PATENTS
> * CHEMICAL SEARCH
> * DATA SERVICES
> * HELP
> 
> Title:
> CMOS *circuit with crowbar limiting function*
> Document Type and Number:
> United States Patent 5296766
> 
> Abstract:
> Crowbar current in a CMOS amplifier circuit is limited during a transition state where one transistor is being turned on and another transistor is being turned off. The transistor that is being turned off is caused to pass through a midpoint state before the transistor that is being turned on is allowed to transition through a similar midpoint state. In one embodiment, independent gate voltages are applied to the P and N transistors of a CMOS amplifier. The gate voltages are independently controlled prior to passage through a midpoint level and then converge towards one another after passage through the midpoint state.
> 
> quote:


Not exactly. It's a standard overvoltage circuit that you put after the fuse. When it detects an overvoltage condition, it creates a "short" that pops the fuse. You see it as protection circuitry for equipment that has some voltage sensitive "stuff" tied to the supply.

In amplifiers, a lot of overvoltage situations could be solved by the PWM switcher to try to level off the rail voltages. But your filter caps and switching FETs would still be vulnerable, I suppose. But I've wondered why manufacturers don't just use a crowbar circuit. Maybe because amps are so high current that it's a pain in the ass to pop the fuse? [In other words, you have to find an SCR or whatever that can sink enough current to pop it.] Or maybe manufacturers don't want customers sending back their "broken" amps when really the electrical system is what's broken?


----------



## Oliver

Thanx, MarkZ


----------



## sqshoestring

An automotive 12V system is expected to operate about 10v to 14.5v span, most any product I've ever seen is designed to operate across that voltage. But going over 14.5v could certainly damage some things.

I would get a quality meter and verify the readings you have, a HU or cheap meter may not be correct.

My current car will go over 14v in cold weather but I've never seen it top 14.5v.

I put in a lot of new 2002 and 3002. 3002 was a great sub amp back then and would power about any IB sub setup you could build as most all subs were IB then. In the 80s there was little use for 5002s because they would blow up most things, and not that many could fit 12s let alone 15s which is the only thing I ever put a 5002 on back then. Heck the company show car had 8" subs in it, but we did laugh at that even then. At least it was that way here.

Some amps, I know some alpines, just regulate the PWM above around 13.5v. It is quite easy to shut down or limit the PWM in about any newer amp using a TL494/594 (most all use those) from a design aspect. I've been told the input section like the op-amps are what will fry with over-volt.


----------



## chad

MarkZ said:


> Not exactly. It's a standard overvoltage circuit that you put after the fuse. When it detects an overvoltage condition, it creates a "short" that pops the fuse. You see it as protection circuitry for equipment that has some voltage sensitive "stuff" tied to the supply.


Some pro amps use a SAC187 to dump the output to ground in the event it goes DC to protect the speakers. this in turn ALWAYS destroys the device but said device is cheaper than a new driver. I don't know how one would do it for over voltage without destroying the device or using a really big relay with quenching magnets to open the path. Another thorn in the side when using 12V


----------



## MarkZ

chad said:


> Some pro amps use a SAC187 to dump the output to ground in the event it goes DC to protect the speakers. this in turn ALWAYS destroys the device but said device is cheaper than a new driver. I don't know how one would do it for over voltage without destroying the device or using a really big relay with quenching magnets to open the path. Another thorn in the side when using 12V


I meant to run it on the 12v input to pop the amplifier's fuse. You wouldn't destroy anything in that case.


----------



## chad

They use it on the speaker end to pop the amplifier's fuse  it still nukes the device as it fails short and the fuse chromes it's internals. It would still have to pass the current on the PS end to blow the fuse unfortunately.


----------



## Oliver

Hey Chad,

What's a good size cap to charge up at work and leave out for the guys to touch ?


----------



## baggedbirds

sqshoestring said:


> An automotive 12V system is expected to operate about 10v to 14.5v span, most any product I've ever seen is designed to operate across that voltage. But going over 14.5v could certainly damage some things.
> 
> I would get a quality meter and verify the readings you have, a HU or cheap meter may not be correct.
> 
> My current car will go over 14v in cold weather but I've never seen it top 14.5v.


Its not a meter issue on my end. I have done this on purpose :shocked: I have a module made by a company out of Las Vegas Missing Link Audio. This module changes the charging curve of the car and a few other goodies. I have a Wrangler 160 amp, externally regualted Alternator. I did it to combat voltage drop when the system is cranking. For tech stuff you have to talk to them, I am not a that smart on its inner workings and don't want to give out mis-information and the way this thread goes, wouldn't want to try . ok let me have it :snacks:


----------



## ChrisB

baggedbirds said:


> Its not a meter issue on my end. I have done this on purpose :shocked: I have a module made by a company out of Las Vegas Missing Link Audio. This module changes the charging curve of the car and a few other goodies. I have a Wrangler 160 amp, externally regualted Alternator. I did it to combat voltage drop when the system is cranking. For tech stuff you have to talk to them, I am not a that smart on its inner workings and don't want to give out mis-information and the way this thread goes, wouldn't want to try . ok let me have it :snacks:


Missing Link Audio isn't that hard to find I've heard about the module, but don't really need it myself.


----------



## LinearPower

sqshoestring said:


> An automotive 12V system is expected to operate about 10v to 14.5v span, most any product I've ever seen is designed to operate across that voltage. But going over 14.5v could certainly damage some things.
> 
> I would get a quality meter and verify the readings you have, a HU or cheap meter may not be correct.
> 
> My current car will go over 14v in cold weather but I've never seen it top 14.5v.
> 
> I put in a lot of new 2002 and 3002. 3002 was a great sub amp back then and would power about any IB sub setup you could build as most all subs were IB then. In the 80s there was little use for 5002s because they would blow up most things, and not that many could fit 12s let alone 15s which is the only thing I ever put a 5002 on back then. Heck the company show car had 8" subs in it, but we did laugh at that even then. At least it was that way here.
> 
> Some amps, I know some alpines, just regulate the PWM above around 13.5v. It is quite easy to shut down or limit the PWM in about any newer amp using a TL494/594 (most all use those) from a design aspect. I've been told the input section like the op-amps are what will fry with over-volt.


That regulation does nothing to help the 12 volt input stage of the amp before it is switched, the regulation would be after the fact. Also, Linear Power has always used non-regulated design to give higher headroom and damping factor to the output circuit, so Pulse Width Modulation is not an answer.

As far as the show cars, it was all about SQ and transient response and low freq response not about VOLUME, most of the factory show cars Linear ever showed were SQ cars and not made to hammer. The outdoor CES vehicles were made for the head bangers, like the astro van, the dodge caravan, and a few others, but the T'bird was a SQ car totally, nothing to laugh about if one knew what was trying to be accomplished, and depending on when you saw it it either was a 5002S (servo amp) or a 8002SW with servo and feedback driving it. It was very amazing for the low freq and subsonic sound reproduction, those 8 inch drivers were in FREE-AIR also, further to demostrate the absolute control these amps has over the drivers with the servo and feedback running to them.


----------



## Oliver

John Yi use to drive a van with 24 8002SW's connected to 12 Cerwin Vega subwoofers [ dual voice coils ].

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8969&highlight=8002

quote:

All (24) 8002 were modified by John Fairchild. All the gains are 100% bypassed.

It made about 800w at 12.5 volts and did and I repeat did 1200w at 14.8 volts for 3~5 seconds. That was when the amps were fresh for the 1995 ISACA and USAC finals.

BTW, the entire Stroker Van [ (24) Linear Power 8002, (2) 2502iQ, (1) 4753iQ, (3) XO2 and (1) PA II-R.

quote:


----------



## chad

Hmm, gains bypassed, if it were attenuation then it would be WFO all the time, if they truly bypassed the first gain STAGE then what's the point? Especially if you are gonna put a line driver (another gain stage) in front of it.


----------



## Oliver

Werewolf got this amp... black 4.1 HV [ I was at work when the auction ended ].
quote:

Wish I hadn't been outbid on a brand new "Linear Power Competition Mono Amp" !

Jeff got that one !

quote:


----------



## sqshoestring

chad said:


> Hmm, gains bypassed, if it were attenuation then it would be WFO all the time, if they truly bypassed the first gain STAGE then what's the point? Especially if you are gonna put a line driver (another gain stage) in front of it.


The amps I've seen or done that way, you just toss resistors in the pot holes for half the value. Then it is set at 50%, but in reality you can vary them anyway you want. Long as each side adds up to the pot value it should work the same. ie: 10K pot would be 5K each side in the center (if linear, audio pot would be different) so 5K each side would be 50% of pot setting.

LP amps on the other hand back then just loved input. You could run a 5v (low power back then) HU speaker wires into the RCA (not that it was always a good idea). The PA-II is 5v line driver IIRC and works perfectly with them. Big line drivers are common now, back in the 80s that was the first one I saw with that much voltage. I have one sitting here but hard to use with the xovers in my HU. Have two more sitting here a friend is going to run in a system. If you wanted all those amps to run the same output, it would be easier to take the pots out and put resistors in. Then you can set the output of the PA-II as they have the adjustments on them and all the amps should run the same. Otherwise you would have to screw around checking the voltage on each one and trying to match them. If the resistors were off just fine tune them, and never mess with them again.


----------



## MarkZ

Why replace the gain pot? To avoid scratch?


----------



## chad

MarkZ said:


> Why replace the gain pot? To avoid scratch?


One of 2 reasons..

1. accurate matching using high tolerance resistors
2. all the cool kids are doing it and it adds another goofy thing to add to your competition book.


----------



## sqshoestring

LinearPower said:


> That regulation does nothing to help the 12 volt input stage of the amp before it is switched, the regulation would be after the fact. Also, Linear Power has always used non-regulated design to give higher headroom and damping factor to the output circuit, so Pulse Width Modulation is not an answer.
> 
> As far as the show cars, it was all about SQ and transient response and low freq response not about VOLUME, most of the factory show cars Linear ever showed were SQ cars and not made to hammer. The outdoor CES vehicles were made for the head bangers, like the astro van, the dodge caravan, and a few others, but the T'bird was a SQ car totally, nothing to laugh about if one knew what was trying to be accomplished, and depending on when you saw it it either was a 5002S (servo amp) or a 8002SW with servo and feedback driving it. It was very amazing for the low freq and subsonic sound reproduction, those 8 inch drivers were in FREE-AIR also, further to demostrate the absolute control these amps has over the drivers with the servo and feedback running to them.


True I suppose the high voltage could trash the remote circuit or I'd have to look up how much the IC can take, and who knows what they use in related parts. But it should save the amp section and unless the IC freaked out it would not harm the mosfets. (in a typical newer amp)

IMO the way they fuse amps these days you would risk a fire hazard shorting them to make them blow. I never see fuses blown on newer amps that are toast. Using twice what you need looks cooler and thus is a requirement. Maybe some use that much current and mostly cheaper amps do that, just the same who wants to short 100A of fuse? I put a clamp meter on my ZX700.5 and clipped the subs and got a peak of 74A, and I would not call that a huge amp at 4x70 and 420x1 rms. Of course that was a peak so a lower rated fuse would easily pass that.

The place I was at, the 3002 and 5002 were the largest amps they had. They put out. The first 5002 I put in the RF guy came in with a set of 15" subs we had not carried before. I put my hands on the cone and lifted my feet off the floor. It was amazing, no other sub I'd seen was that tough back then. Maybe they could get other amps because we sold some RF and other brands, but they always put LP amps in for big power.

We tried but never found any brand 8" sub that put out much they just can't move the air to get under say 40Hz with much of any volume. Today maybe they are better with the huge xmax, but I've never tried 8s again. You would just beat them silly when you could use a 10 or 12 without the abuse.


----------



## LinearPower

a$$hole said:


> John Yi use to drive a van with 24 8002SW's connected to 12 Cerwin Vega subwoofers [ dual voice coils ].
> 
> ICIXSound.COM Forums - Linear power 8002
> 
> quote:
> 
> All (24) 8002 were modified by John Fairchild. All the gains are 100% bypassed.
> 
> It made about 800w at 12.5 volts and did and I repeat did 1200w at 14.8 volts for 3~5 seconds. That was when the amps were fresh for the 1995 ISACA and USAC finals.
> 
> BTW, the entire Stroker Van [ (24) Linear Power 8002, (2) 2502iQ, (1) 4753iQ, (3) XO2 and (1) PA II-R.
> 
> quote:


Yes, he did, those 8002SW's were sent back in and internally changed, they were the predecessor of the 4.1HVS, but not quite. But they WERE NOT modified by Jon Fairchild, they were worked on by Jeri McCord and Mike Ferrara at our factory in Ca at the time.

John Fairchild, speaker engineer from Cerwin, God rest his soul, and Jeri McCord our engineer designed both the stroker and the 8002SW during the same period and used each others product when testing each, this made the two products work extremely well together, since they were designed around each other.

If you can take out a gain stage and drive it with a pre-amp of a set voltage range you don't have to have a gain control or op amp in the front end of the amp, it increases SQ and gives a little extra too. Amps have to have a gain control and op-amp to be able to match the amps input to the output of a variety of different headunits with all types of line output impedances and voltages. 

If you have a known output impedance (headunit not speaker impedance) and voltage you can bypass a lot of those parts, which gives you the capability of driving everything with a single pre-amp and have every amp track power exactly the same,(as exactly as possible) taking away the variance of the gain pot which are +/- 10 percent parts at best some are +/- 20 percent. If you have one gain at the low end on one amp, and another amp with a gain control at the high end of the scale there can be quite a difference in tracking the two amps together is the same system.

Our PA-2 can provide up to 32 dB of gain undistorted and up to 10 volts of line output, with a impedance that matchesthe input impedance of the amps exactly, and it can drive over 25 devices without loading itself down. Using this unit as a master gain for the ssytem provides better performance even when used on stock amps, but even better if it is the matched control for all amps without using gains on each amp.


----------



## Mooble

Ray, how hard would it be to remove the preamp gains from an existing amp? If you were building a new 2.2, would it be easy enough to design it without any preamp stage or does it require significant changes?

Tru is doing this now as an option but they are ungodly expensive. Could you design or modify amps to be run from a line driver also?

I would be interested in building the best line driver possible and using it to power three LPs with no preamp stages.


----------



## MarkZ

I still don't really get it.

What about the tolerance of the resistors in the feedback loop that determine the actual gain of the amp? It seems to me like a pot would actually help you to set the gains to match between two different amps. Sort of like a compensation pot. So the user can just grab his meter and set it.

Also, I understand what you're saying about the op amp buffer. But not all amps need that, right? If the input goes directly to the input differential stage, the input impedance should be high enough to make the op amp redundant.


----------



## LinearPower

MarkZ said:


> I still don't really get it.
> 
> What about the tolerance of the resistors in the feedback loop that determine the actual gain of the amp? It seems to me like a pot would actually help you to set the gains to match between two different amps. Sort of like a compensation pot. So the user can just grab his meter and set it.
> 
> Also, I understand what you're saying about the op amp buffer. But not all amps need that, right? If the input goes directly to the input differential stage, the input impedance should be high enough to make the op amp redundant.



I am speaking of level matching two or more amps, and this does make it VERY easy, also anytime you can remove parts out of line it makes for a better circuit. The feedback in msot amps of the same brand are going to be very close, and realy doesn't have anything to do with input level matching. The gain pots are very wide tolerance parts much more so than fixed resistors. 

You are basically pre-amping a pre-amp to a pre-amp by the time you leave a radio and go thru processing and into the amp. These processes are put there to MATCH different headunits to DIFFERENT eqs and amps. If every headunit had identical output impedance nad voltage you would not need a lot of things in an amp. 

If these can be reduced to one it is much better for SQ and performance. Yo u don't buy a Mark Leviston, or McIntosh home unit with multiple pre-amps, you buy all separate pieces and have one pre-amp perform everything for best SQ.


----------



## LinearPower

Mooble said:


> Ray, how hard would it be to remove the preamp gains from an existing amp? If you were building a new 2.2, would it be easy enough to design it without any preamp stage or does it require significant changes?
> 
> Tru is doing this now as an option but they are ungodly expensive. Could you design or modify amps to be run from a line driver also?
> 
> I would be interested in building the best line driver possible and using it to power three LPs with no preamp stages.


It could be done if the exact radio specs are known, if you change headunits everything would have to be re-calibrated in the amp.


----------



## LinearPower

Mooble said:


> Ray, how hard would it be to remove the preamp gains from an existing amp? If you were building a new 2.2, would it be easy enough to design it without any preamp stage or does it require significant changes?
> 
> Tru is doing this now as an option but they are ungodly expensive. Could you design or modify amps to be run from a line driver also?
> 
> I would be interested in building the best line driver possible and using it to power three LPs with no preamp stages.


You can't remove the compete preamp stage, it is in stages to gain the sifganl enough to be high enough signal to driveteh output devices to their capability. You remove the first stage of this which includes the gain control.

The PA-2 is about the best driver on the market and MATCH the input impedance of the amps exactly, it would be far easier and better to use one of them, than it would be to try to make something, that would end up basically the same, jsut minus the EQ section. The PA-2 as stated earlier can provide up to 32 dB of gain (massive gain) with no clipping and up to 10 volts of line level.


----------



## kappa546

Ugh can we close this thread. this thread is whoring out my beloved eLPeez and I don't like it. Leave it for the true oldschool fans, all you newbies please continue using whatever it is "others" use.

*Post prompted by the influx of LP suggestion threads ie: "I want 500w on front stage and 2000w for subz... i need their SQ!"

\end of rant


----------



## Mooble

kappa546 said:


> *Post prompted by the influx of LP suggestion threads ie: "I want 500w on front stage and 2000w for subz... i need their SQ!"


In all fairness though, who did you turn to when you wanted old school POWER? Linear Power. They were top rated SQ amps for sure, but very few could touch LP for brute power also. In the old days you DID turn to LP for 2000w sub amps because no one else could beat their power reliably.


----------



## kappa546

i think you missed my point. all i'm saying is there is no reason to make them some forum boner fad, there are enough LP purists out there to compete with  Sorry i'm just being a little selfish right now


----------



## Mooble

kappa546 said:


> i think you missed my point. all i'm saying is there is no reason to make them some forum boner fad, there are enough LP purists out there to compete with  Sorry i'm just being a little selfish right now


Ah! Yes. Linear Powers are a bunch of old, plain-looking, and frankly boring amps. Stop buying them and driving the price up.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

*I'm a DAD today*... My First TO3 LP...lol... 
















Yeah, it's the 2202 from FleaBay.. It's in decent shape, barring the holes in the mounting fins and bent fins arouns said holes... Needs a refinish job to... It wasn't stripped of the anodization before being painted, so it's flaking off.. Someday i'll send it it for freshening up, converting to IQ status and whatever else I can have done... For now, i'll just get it looking the best I can and tuck it away.. 











I see now what was being said about how the T03's are mounted.. I always thought they were set into a much larger solid aluminum casting.. I see that is not the case, now.. 

This doesn't concern me, with the track record and all, but now I understand what someone was saying about that..


----------



## DAT

I bid on that mini monster also, but i didn't like the yellow cover and such, now seeing all the red color it was originally why would someone paint it blue and not do it correctly.

Good job for you!


----------



## manina

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> *I'm a DAD today*... My First TO3 LP...lol...
> 
> 
> .


Congrats. The first of many I hope. 

I started with a 2202 as well and now had many more Once you get one, you can not stop buying them:laugh:


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

DAT said:


> I bid on that mini monster also, but i didn't like the yellow cover and such, now seeing all the red color it was originally why would someone paint it blue and not do it correctly.
> 
> Good job for you!


Couldn't tell ya, but thanks.. I think I did alright by it... 

I'll have the blue stripped off in short order, now that I know anodizing isn't hurt by paint stripper.. :laugh:



> Congrats. The first of many I hope.
> 
> I started with a 2202 as well and now had many more Once you get one, you can not stop buying them:laugh:


Me to, me to.... I also own 2xLP100's and a DPS200, this is just my first T03 version of LP... 

I was shocked by the weight of the 2202, or I should say lack OF.. lol, I figured it would weigh more.. I don't know why, I just did...


----------



## LinearPower

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> *I'm a DAD today*... My First TO3 LP...lol...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's the 2202 from FleaBay.. It's in decent shape, barring the holes in the mounting fins and bent fins arouns said holes... Needs a refinish job to... It wasn't stripped of the anodization before being painted, so it's flaking off.. Someday i'll send it it for freshening up, converting to IQ status and whatever else I can have done... For now, i'll just get it looking the best I can and tuck it away..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see now what was being said about how the T03's are mounted.. I always thought they were set into a much larger solid aluminum casting.. I see that is not the case, now..
> 
> This doesn't concern me, with the track record and all, but now I understand what someone was saying about that..



The thermal contact patch was never an issue, it was more than enough to cool the amp, 30 plus years of production proved that, but yes the contact area could have been better, but that's just people being critical about something just to be negative. When we do have the extruding dies remade we are planning on enlarging the contact points, anyway.


----------



## ca90ss

LinearPower said:


> but that's just people being critical about something just to be negative.


I don't think anyone is trying to pick on you personally. If the guys from tru were here talking about redesigning the h-1 and sh-1 I'd be bitching about the way they mounted the transistors on those as well or if the guys from ppi were redoing the art series I'd be bitching about the retarded way they use the bottom cover to clamp the transistors.



> When we do have the extruding dies remade we are planning on enlarging the contact points, anyway.


If you're redesigning the heat-sink anyways I still don't quite understand why you don't make it so the transistors mount directly to the sink. Sure, the old way worked in the past but if an improvement can be made then why not do it? It comes back to the whole making things just good enough or making them as good as they can be.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

LinearPower said:


> The thermal contact patch was never an issue, it was more than enough to cool the amp, 30 plus years of production proved that, but yes the contact area could have been better, but that's just people being critical about something just to be negative. When we do have the extruding dies remade we are planning on enlarging the contact points, anyway.


Oh, I know Ray, it's been discussed at length... I know... At the time (not to distant past, in this thread), I didn't understand what was being said about what... I thought one thing, but something completely different was happening... Retract the claws, big guy.. 

I'm sure there are a number of improvements (you)LP plans on making, I mean, it would be silly not to..


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

ca90ss said:


> I don't think anyone is trying to pick on you personally. If the guys from tru were here talking about redesigning the h-1 and sh-1 I'd be bitching about the way they mounted the transistors on those as well or if the guys from ppi were redoing the art series I'd be bitching about the retarded way they use the bottom cover to clamp the transistors.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're redesigning the heat-sink anyways I still don't quite understand why you don't make it so the transistors mount directly to the sink. Sure, the old way worked in the past but if an improvement can be made then why not do it? It comes back to the whole making things just good enough or making them as good as they can be.


I feel the same as Ca90ss on that first point... I mean, once things got ugly, well, lines got erased and things were all anti-ja-mojo-anateing, i'm sure it felt like it, but, these guys mostly stay objective, not so personal, but don't take ANY BS... lol... It takes time to see that, especially if you are remotely new to forums or even THIS one ..

I don't want to speak for Ray or LP, because i'm much a noob to LP myself, but there are too-many-to-count, accounts of LP running cool, even after extended "sessions"... So even with a minor or major re-design on the contact area, it wouldn't be a vast improvement.. from my readings... 

I don't want anyone to think I'm an authority on the subject, or even have a clue.. I just retain my reading...


----------



## ca90ss

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I don't want to speak for Ray or LP, because i'm much a noob to LP myself, but there are too-many-to-count, accounts of LP running cool, even after extended "sessions"... So even with a minor or major re-design on the contact area, it wouldn't be a vast improvement.. from my readings...


Or maybe the heat-sink is cool because the heat isn't being transferred from the transistors as efficiently as it could be.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

ca90ss said:


> Or maybe the heat-sink is cool because the heat isn't being transferred from the transistors as efficiently as it could be.


Meh, I don't believe it.. 

It's been gone over, they are running in a "less stressed" state than most amps.. they could likely make more power than they do already, but, as already been gone over, that is more of a compromise than they were willing to take.. 

I'm not getting pulled into this... I shouldn't even be acting like I know something... lol..


----------



## ca90ss

All I'm sayin' is that if an improvement can be made then why not do it? 

Either way I don't really care. I've already unloaded all of my lp's and moved on.


----------



## LinearPower

ca90ss said:


> Or maybe the heat-sink is cool because the heat isn't being transferred from the transistors as efficiently as it could be.


There again we don't have heat issues, there is a thermal switch attached to the alluminum bar directly beside the transistors on all the big amps which will trip if the transistors get too hot, this is set at a lower temp than most companies and we NEVER had any complaints of tripping thermal excessively. Again over 30 years of production. Thermal tracking has been far close enough to work just fine. 

We are also not interested in copying someone elses looks with a mounting design, we have never been a "me too" company. I don't want to go into the history of this issue, since we had this idea long ago. 

I have no claws out, merely stating what had been stated earlier. But again im not going to hash something that has worked and worked well enough in the past to satisfy the customer, if it had not worked we would not have had the reputation we have and the product would have died long ago from heat related failures. We don't have parts desoldering from the boards, we don't have heat marks on our boards from excess heat build up, we don't have heat failures of parts. 

I am merely responding to your questions with answer.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

I know Ray, it's your passion... I was just trying to make light of all of this the best I can... Maybe you do take all of this a scosch to seriously.. Maybe start playing offense, rather than defence? Insted of always backing it up, just simply ask for examples of others manufactures that can campair to the 30yr track record and be done with it... simple Sir... Cause very few can... 

I have a feeling i'll be with LP for a long time... understand, i'm on your side..


----------



## LinearPower

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I know Ray, it's your passion... I was just trying to make light of all of this the best I can... Maybe you do take all of this a scosch to seriously.. Maybe start playing offense, rather than defence? Insted of always backing it up, just simply ask for examples of others manufactures that can campair to the 30yr track record and be done with it... simple Sir... Cause very few can...
> 
> I have a feeling i'll be with LP for a long time... understand, i'm on your side..


Oh, I have no issues with you, and congrats on the 2202. We can make it sound even nicer for you in the future if you opt for that!

I just don't like to leave information or miss-information left un-answered, If it is being put forth , I assume someone is expecting an answer or a re-buttal. I tend to respond with factual information not quesses, or conjecture as some things have been put forth here. 

We have had many years of testing, evaluating, building, selling, and using product (not just or own) to know what weakness we have as well as in other peoples products. We have and will continue to correct ANYTHING that is truely an issue, that has been seen in the years of our production. If something truely is an issue we DO address it. The surface area is not a real issue, it could be bigger but we are not going to stop everything and spend 10,000 on a new die to just get it bigger for no real reason. We are looking at changing somethings on the heatsink in the future, at that time we may address the surface area as a secondary thought.

Thanks for your patronage and support, again no bad feelings here!


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

ok cool, was just making sure I wasn't being misunderstood, is all... 

thanks.


----------



## Morals

I just got my first 2202. Ill be sending it in for mods soon.

Now all i need is 1 more 2202 and a 5002 and my system will be set.


----------



## sqshoestring

I never heard of LP amps in a proper install in good condition having a heat issue, but yeah the mounting is smaller. That is the way TO3 are though, not many good ways of mounting them inside the amp like that. Actually the best way would be on the outside of the sink IMO, but not the best idea on a car amp. However it is proven to work well, so can't really complain about it. I've heard more about TO3 from techs actually, and not sure what products they worked on may not have even been car amps.

If the amp does not stress them beyond what heat they can dissipate, then it would not be an issue. New amps tend to use less parts and stress them more, so it depends on how they are used for any transistor.

I need to try this pair of 1002 in my car just can't get to it.


----------



## manina

LinearPower said:


> There again we don't have heat issues, there is a thermal switch attached to the alluminum bar directly beside the transistors on all the big amps which will trip if the transistors get too hot, <edit>


I have been using LP amps for years and only once the thermal switch turned off the amp (a 5002iq) but I can say I was expecting to happen much more earlier. It was a very hot summer day and I can blame the amp for this.

Before the LPs I had other amps but I always had to add fans to ensure a proper airflow otherwise the risk of triggering the thermal protection was too high.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## bass_lover1

JOMA strikes again!


He purchased this pair: Linear Power 5002 and 2202 - eBay (item 160332619518 end time May-02-09 18:11:38 PDT)

And is now selling just the 5002 for 100 bucks more (shipping included): O/S Linear Power 5002 Satin Case, Beautiful Amp,Super!! - eBay (item 300315337634 end time May-25-09 12:11:53 PDT)

You can tell they are the same amp by the writing on the caps, they are identical.

I'm gonna email him and ask if he'll throw the 2202 in for the asking price, since he got both of them for cheaper.


----------



## baggedbirds

bass_lover1 said:


> I'm gonna email him and ask if he'll throw the 2202 in for the asking price, since he got both of them for cheaper.




I would love to see his response :laugh:


----------



## ca90ss

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> just simply ask for examples of others manufactures that can campair to the 30yr track record and be done with it... simple Sir... Cause very few can...


First of all, how many 30 year old LP amps have you come across? I'd wager to say that there's about as many as there are from any other manufacturer that's been around that long. The large majority of LP's that are out there are closer to 15-20 years old and if you want a list of manufacturers with 20 year old amps that are still going strong I can name a buttload of them.


----------



## DAT

I emailed him also telling him to stop buying all the LP's and relisting them, it would be different if he kept them for a collection. 

I just had some fun on Ebay.



> I got a response back. He asked what GLWS stood for .


need to ask him a question?


> [email protected]


----------



## DAT

Well there are a few other companies that were building amps back then but sold out and the name is still strong just higher power ratings and cheap **** inside.


----------



## Morals

ca90ss said:


> First of all, how many 30 year old LP amps have you come across? I'd wager to say that there's about as many as there are from any other manufacturer that's been around that long. The large majority of LP's that are out there are closer to 15-20 years old and if you want a list of manufacturers with 20 year old amps that are still going strong I can name a buttload of them.



I have a pair of 652's i bought in 1988, so i guess you can add 2 more to that list.


----------



## Oliver

*ca90ss* swears at Linear Power amps { not by, AT !! :laugh: }


----------



## bass_lover1

baggedbirds said:


> I would love to see his response :laugh:


His response was he believed it was already sold.

Here was my response:



> So you aren't denying your use of two eBay accounts? One that buys amps, and one that resells them with a significant markup from his "personal collection?" You're doing true enthusiast a disservice, you really should be ashamed of your self.



Oh, and I offered 250 on his 5002, since that's about all he paid for it anyway


----------



## SoCalBean420

What do you guys think this is worth? As I'm going to be listing it up for sale.


----------



## WRX/Z28

SoCalBean420 said:


> What do you guys think this is worth? As I'm going to be listing it up for sale.


$5 and I'll give it to you right now!


----------



## SoCalBean420

WRX/Z28 said:


> $5 and I'll give it to you right now!


I'll take it...


----------



## ChrisB

bass_lover1 said:


> JOMA strikes again!
> 
> 
> He purchased this pair: Linear Power 5002 and 2202 - eBay (item 160332619518 end time May-02-09 18:11:38 PDT)
> 
> And is now selling just the 5002 for 100 bucks more (shipping included): O/S Linear Power 5002 Satin Case, Beautiful Amp,Super!! - eBay (item 300315337634 end time May-25-09 12:11:53 PDT)
> 
> You can tell they are the same amp by the writing on the caps, they are identical.
> 
> I'm gonna email him and ask if he'll throw the 2202 in for the asking price, since he got both of them for cheaper.


Well, I corrected him on his "satin finish" by telling him the amp was stripped. I also know the person he purchased it from 

Lastly, that 5002 was modified, but not by Ray @ TIPS


----------



## DAT

SoCalBean420 said:


> What do you guys think this is worth? As I'm going to be listing it up for sale.


List as Buy It Now, so some LP guy can get the LIVE 8% off deal 

I'd say if it is mint and nothing wrong about $1 a watt so say $500

but try it a bit more if you want.

If I wanted the amp I'd say it's worth $250


----------



## SoCalBean420

Yeah I'm going to be listing some of my LP's on ebay.


----------



## DAT

SoCalBean420 said:


> Yeah I'm going to be listing some of my LP's on ebay.


Why not posted them here first and save money on the ebay fees?

which models do you have you want to sale?


----------



## bass_lover1

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Well, I corrected him on his "satin finish" by telling him the amp was stripped. I also know the person he purchased it from
> 
> Lastly, that 5002 was modified, but not by Ray @ TIPS


I think I insulted him with my offer, and me accusing him of giving true enthusiasts a bad name.


> hmmm...why should i deny having two accounts, most people on ebay have more than that. as to your outrageous claim for shame, America runs off of buying low and selling high. there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. yes, i do have a personal collection of amps. i have been collecting since 1978, which i believe qualifies me as an enthusiast. i do nothing on ebay that half of the members are doing as well. find a real cause to get bent about and do some good


----------



## SoCalBean420

DAT said:


> Why not posted them here first and save money on the ebay fees?
> 
> which models do you have you want to sale?


I don't have the 50 post required to post in the classifieds, and the one's that I'm going to sell are...

901
952
2202
5002


----------



## bass_lover1

I love LP amps, it's just too bad that I can't bring my self to buy more than what I'm going to use.


----------



## |Tch0rT|

SoCalBean420 said:


> I don't have the 50 post required to post in the classifieds, and the one's that I'm going to sell are...
> 
> 901
> 952
> 2202
> 5002


How much for the 901?

Ryan


----------



## DAT

Interested in these:

*952
2202*


----------



## mmmadog

Iam the one that sold the 2 lp amps to jim. I tried to list them on here but because of silly rules I put them on ebay. I bought both for 250.00 and sold them for 625.00 so I am not crying at all. What he does with them is his buisness. If he can make more money more power to him. I have had more than a few people butting into my buisness with this deal. If you dont like him dont buy from him!!!! By the way I have a modded 1752 and a stock 2202iq I might sell or trade. Also have a xo3 crossover thats been modded that I would let go also. Looking for a high end home amp under 100wpc. prefer class A.


----------



## Oliver

ummm... in case you missed it ^^^^ this guy has started 6 threads FIVE are in classifieds 

He is here for ____ ???

1] knowledge
2] the scenery
3] he luvs music

buying and selling


----------



## RoRo

kappa546 said:


> i think you missed my point. all i'm saying is there is no reason to make them some forum boner fad, there are enough LP purists out there to compete with  Sorry i'm just being a little selfish right now


I kinda see where you're coming from... but I think calling it a "forum boner fad" is wrong. The reason more people are interested all of a sudden is for various reasons I believe. 

1st, *following*, is because they get a lot of respect from various users on here, including yourself and you swear by them.

2nd, *price*, a lot of people may want to try TO3 can based amps but can't really afford Tru's, then LP's are pretty much your only option as they can be had for reasonable prices.

3rd, *performance*, most swear by their performance and won't try or use anything else, that says a lot for someone who is a car audio enthusiast. 

4th, *value*, the value you get from the performance and if you find that LP's aren't for you they retain their value very well so its not a complete loss in investment.

The last reason and major impact I think is from Ray. He takes the time to edjucate and explain things if you''re a newbie, novice or pro. This to me is invalueable and adds a great amount of trust in what your buying.
Plus, since there are talks of new amps being made, this will only benefit you since it will make it more justifiable for them to actually start producing some.


peace...

Ro


----------



## Oliver

kilumenati said:


> I kinda see where you're coming from... but I think calling it a "forum boner fad" is wrong. The reason more people are interested all of a sudden is for various reasons I believe.
> 
> 1st, *following*, is because they get a lot of respect from various users on here, including yourself and you swear by them.
> 
> 2nd, *price*, a lot of people may want to try TO3 can based amps but can't really afford Tru's !
> 
> 4th, *value*, the value you get from the performance and if you find that LP's aren't for you they retain their value very well so its not a complete loss in investment.
> 
> The Best reason and major impact I think is from Ray.
> 
> He takes the time to educate and explain things if you''re a newbie, novice or pro. This to me is invaluable and adds a great amount of *trust in what your buying*.
> 
> Plus, since there are talks of new amps being made, this will only benefit you since it will make it more justifiable for them to actually start producing some.
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Ro


Here..Here !!!


----------



## Mooble

mmmadog said:


> What he does with them is his buisness. If he can make more money more power to him. I have had more than a few people butting into my buisness with this deal. If you dont like him dont buy from him!!!!


What about the shill bidding? 

What about pulling auctions out from under bidders because he was only getting back what he paid for the amp 2 weeks previously only to repost the supposedly lost or broken amp 2 weeks later?

What about lying about the condition of his amps consistently?

There are so many reasons why JOMA is despised. 

And if there is nothing wrong with it, why does he use two IDs? Why doesn't he want you to know that he just bought the amp for half of what he is charging you? He has a lot more than 2 IDs also. That one he used for the "satin finish" LPs only has 39 transactions and JOMA has been doing this for years. He must drop IDs every couple of months when people catch on.


----------



## Oliver

Hey Mooble ,

JOMA is his template for how to make MONEY


----------



## mmmadog

I will say it again if you dont like him dont buy from him. These forums are getting to be nothing more than a bunch of assholes voicing there opinions about everything. Most dont have a clue what there even talking about. I was reading last nite and you have people giving ray from tips all kinds of crap about nothing. Ray is 1 of the most knowlegable people in this industry and also 1 of the nicest people your ever going to meet. But you people seem to think you know everything. Its getting to be a real joke.


----------



## Mooble

mmmadog said:


> I will say it again if you dont like him dont buy from him. These forums are getting to be nothing more than a bunch of assholes voicing there opinions about everything. Most dont have a clue what there even talking about. I was reading last nite and you have people giving ray from tips all kinds of crap about nothing. Ray is 1 of the most knowlegable people in this industry and also 1 of the nicest people your ever going to meet. But you people seem to think you know everything. Its getting to be a real joke.


Fair enough, but I don't want anyone else buying anything from JOMA either. Since he is already a joke on the forum, that isn't much of a concern.

Most people in this thread are incredibly respectful of Ray and his knowledge. Linear Power amps are one of the most beloved here and that's largely because of Ray and the work he has done. It is a fact that the TO-3 mounting in LPs is not ideal. You don't need a degree in EE to see that. I don't think it's wrong to point that out. He even said that improvements will be made on the new models.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Sorry but I couldnt resist. Has anyone seen/made any custom faceplates for a Linear Power amplifier?


----------



## sqshoestring

Hey, you guys can pay what you want for any old amp...that is the way the game goes. Someone like JOMA does run the prices up and makes a business of buying anything lower and selling high. Part of the reason some people dumped their old amps for good money and moved on. Heck I bought an old SS amp local for $40 a couple years ago, I searched for a _year_ to get a twin for $75 shipped. I might have been better off selling the first one for a profit (@~$100+) because there are a ton of good amps out there. But take a look at sold LP and you see most did not sell. Couple years ago the economy was good too and now is not. *That old hard to find stuff is worth exactly what someone will pay for it at the time, and don't think people don't shill bid and buy their own stuff, etc. *You pay or wait for a real price. I was shopping one amp for a while they were going for around 80-90, next thing I know they were 150-200 for the same amps for half a year. Why, who knows.

LP were one of the best and most powerful amps back in the day and still work well today. I'd guess much of the value on them is from people who wanted one back then and can afford one now. Back in the late 80s when you made <$5/hr at your summer job they were like a full month's take home. I drove cars I bought for half that, and you only had three months in a summer, lol. Someone like JOMA is going to push that for all its worth. I get a great laugh out of some of the text on ebay, I swear some of those amps could make me dinner, bang me, and paint my house they are so great.

I see 1002s on there for 200, some that did not sell for 180 (plus ship). I bought one NIB and another 8/10 for far less than that (<100 shipped for the used one), but hey maybe I paid too much. I don't care, a friend of mine wants them and will pay what I did. His rod is in storage so he told me to try them.


----------



## Oliver

When i get ready to sell mine, I am going to say they all came from JOMA's personal stock and add on a few more dollars than he sells his for


----------



## lsm

Ear Candy!


----------



## MarkZ

mmmadog said:


> These forums are getting to be nothing more than a bunch of assholes voicing there opinions about everything.


Haha, that's pretty much what a forum IS.


----------



## rmenergy

MarkZ said:


> Haha, that's pretty much what a forum IS.


LOL!! Nice.


----------



## ChrisB

Hey, at least I didn't say what happened when I replaced my TIPS modified Linear Power LP150 with two Lunar L60x2s


----------



## DonovanM

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Hey, at least I didn't say what happened when I replaced my Linear Power LP150 with two Lunar L60x2s


You mean how they were better in essentially every way? :laugh:


----------



## ChrisB

DonovanM said:


> You mean how they were better in essentially every way? :laugh:


More power, more headroom, and no hiss


----------



## DonovanM

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> More power, more headroom, and no hiss


But LP has magic SQ dusts... and aren't built by monkeys!


----------



## rmenergy

Hey now, magic dust is only in electric motors (and it does get let out every now and again he,he). I think LP is a solid brand with great products. I only own a 652IQ right now, but have not had any trouble with them in the past. That is not to say that I hang on their nuts either. I've had great luck with many amps, including SS, US Amps, Monolithic, G&S (PPI), & Nakamichi. I think it is great that Ray is here to share and hopefully bring back some great Made in the USA products. There are other companies that still make great products here and I say support them all as long as their ethics are sound. There are nuthuggers that seem to ruin every brand at times, I say just ignore them and try not to associate the brand with the pukes (kind of like most BMW & Prius drivers wink wink nudge nudge).


----------



## tomtomjr

Why is there such a problem with JOMA? I have bought amps from Jim, and haven't had a problem. Hell, they work when they show up. He makes a few $$$. That is fine. Takes time to look for the stuff, and he takes the risk of buying it. If he makes a few $$$ off of me, that is fine. No problems out of any of the amps I have bought over the years. Had good amp purchases with Tristan too. Can't say that for a lot of the sellers out there.


----------



## rmenergy

I never said a word about JOMA. If someone makes money on a deal, more power to them. I was commenting on the LP bashing (as mild as it was). That is all. If people pay the price, that is their problem and I will shop on. BTW tomtomjr, I greatly admire the collection you have going on, I may hit you up later to see what you have that you are willing to part with that fits my needs.


----------



## ChrisB

tomtomjr said:


> Why is there such a problem with JOMA? I have bought amps from Jim, and haven't had a problem. Hell, they work when they show up. He makes a few $$$. That is fine. Takes time to look for the stuff, and he takes the risk of buying it. If he makes a few $$$ off of me, that is fine. No problems out of any of the amps I have bought over the years.


As long as Jim didn't try to repair the amp, I wouldn't have a problem with him. The only problems I ever had with him on eBay is that he tends to skirt the issue when questioned as to if the amplifier has been repaired.

This was one of the 5002s he had for sale a while back:


















He tried to say that it was NEVER repaired Yeah, sure


----------



## tomtomjr

Looks like someone has been in there. 2 caps are changed, and the wires extended. I haven't seen that in anything that I have bought from Jim. Maybe I am just lucky with the purchases from him. Have spent over $10K with him in the past few years and no issues. If there ever is, he has offered to take the item back. So far, nothing has been sent back. This is just my experience so far. No problems like the LP issue you had. But that is for sure a previous repair of some type. Can't defend that if it says "no previous repairs". Kind of obvious on that one...


----------



## Oliver

I'm sending mine to *JOMA* for some upgrades ,[ wires, end plates, etc.., ]


































He wants too much for the cap thing


----------



## benny

JEEZ Hic, that thing ever look minty!


----------



## Oliver

Hmmmm

Minty FRESH :2thumbsup::jester:


----------



## Oliver

JOMA...JOMA.....!! JOOOOO >> MA 

Ahh...Satin Finish


O/S Linear Power 5002 Satin Case, Beautiful Amp,Super!! - eBay (item 300315785929 end time May-27-09 12:14:46 PDT)


----------



## ChrisB

a$$hole said:


> JOMA...JOMA.....!! JOOOOO >> MA
> 
> Ahh...Satin Finish
> 
> 
> O/S Linear Power 5002 Satin Case, Beautiful Amp,Super!! - eBay (item 300315785929 end time May-27-09 12:14:46 PDT)


But, but, this can not be. Just a few days ago it was "No Longer Available"


----------



## Oliver

Bwa ha ha ha

$1,099.23 BUY IT NOW

Next time ...


----------



## TrickyRicky

That auction just ended, with a best offer of 560.00. He stated that amp was modded, but fail to mention by who.......?


----------



## chad

are those 85 deg caps in those?


----------



## ChrisB

I just came up with a money making idea.... I can strip the anodizing off of my Linear Power amplifiers and sell them as rare, one of a kind, factory "satin finish" amps on eBay. Brilliant, I tell ya, brilliant!


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> That auction just ended, with a best offer of 560.00. He stated that amp was modded, but fail to mention by who.......?


Two words: NOT TIPS


----------



## WRX/Z28

Remember though guys, nothing wrong with JOMA. He's a good guy! One of us! He's just trying to provide a service for all us enthusiasts... trying to make sure we all find the amps we want!  :laugh:


----------



## TrickyRicky

Yeah too bad his making a living out of it. Oh yeah, has anyone seen/made any customized face plates for LP's? I ran across two of them and man they are made by a pro, beautiful etched and filled lettering.


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I just came up with a money making idea.... I can strip the anodizing off of my Linear Power amplifiers and sell them as rare, one of a kind, factory "satin finish" amps on eBay. Brilliant, I tell ya, brilliant!


That sounds like a plan to me too.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Just make sure that JOMA didnt patent/register that idea.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Just make sure that JOMA didnt patent/register that idea.


I'll have my lawyers call his lawyers and we can work something out. If not... well, remember the Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice thing:surprised: I'm certain he will have no problems seeing things my way as well as signing the necessary documentation when all is said and done:laugh:


----------



## vjgli

After reading this thread [quite long now], I feel the passion in many people and is exciting to read. LP has seen better days. I can understand with TIPS trying to keep the name going and more power to them. 
I have installed all of them, runt, 1502, 2502, 2502iq, 5002, 6002, 4753, PAR II, PA IIR remote(I think) and multiple 8002 with shroud always.

But guys this **** was designed back in 1980's. Who the hell brags about their 1978 camaro with weber carbs when one whats the best????
The only reason why the amp sits in a time capsule is when Peter died Ruth made him into a martyr and refused the change the design. Jerry finally gave up on her and left for Kicker back in 1997. Ruth buried this company all by herself.

The amp is still a great product. But to compare current amp designs using advanced PWM controller, no chance.
You can do all the frigin MODS but it's still a Carburetor not fuel-injection. 

To Ray, if you have no experience in designing a FET PS from scratch, then just say it. Don't try to discredit the clear advantage.

Still pissed off or confused? 
A '68 Camaro SS is a classic. However, it will not be a fair comparison to '10 Camaro. Especially, if they had to race against each other.

LP is a great nostalgic piece of equipment. Hell, I still own my 2502iQ & 6002 which Jerry removed the gain stage for me back in 1995. So that I can run a DBX line driver with 30dB gain.


----------



## Oliver

Finally some one to lead us in the right direction !

OK, vjgli ....ummm, cheaper more powerful and better record 

25 years, and dozens of award winning product lines later, LINEAR POWER™ products remain superior to other brands.

More efficient, lighter weight, no fans, etc..,

Whatcha got ????

20 some years ago we had a 6 yr warranty on an amp that produced over 1 Hp = One mechanical horsepower of 550 foot-pounds per second is equivalent to 745.7 watts

2.2HV 12.5W x2 RMS 0.004% 600 Watts 1500 Watts 300/150 >72 dB >95 dB 40 Amps Yes Yes 5Hz-200kHz


----------



## WRX/Z28

vjgli said:


> After reading this thread [quite long now], I feel the passion in many people and is exciting to read. LP has seen better days. I can understand with TIPS trying to keep the name going and more power to them.
> I have installed all of them, runt, 1502, 2502, 2502iq, 5002, 6002, 4753, PAR II, PA IIR remote(I think) and multiple 8002 with shroud always.
> 
> But guys this **** was designed back in 1980's. Who the hell brags about their 1978 camaro with weber carbs when one whats the best????
> The only reason why the amp sits in a time capsule is when Peter died Ruth made him into a martyr and refused the change the design. Jerry finally gave up on her and left for Kicker back in 1997. Ruth buried this company all by herself.
> 
> The amp is still a great product. But to compare current amp designs using advanced PWM controller, no chance.
> You can do all the frigin MODS but it's still a Carburetor not fuel-injection.
> 
> To Ray, if you have no experience in designing a FET PS from scratch, then just say it. Don't try to discredit the clear advantage.
> 
> Still pissed off or confused?
> A '68 Camaro SS is a classic. However, it will not be a fair comparison to '10 Camaro. Especially, if they had to race against each other.
> 
> LP is a great nostalgic piece of equipment. Hell, I still own my 2502iQ & 6002 which Jerry removed the gain stage for me back in 1995. So that I can run a DBX line driver with 30dB gain.


Hey, let's compare top camaro's for the analogy. The 2010 currently is being reported to run 13.3 quarter mile times. The fastest 1st gen would be the 1969 ZL1. The ZL1 was reported to run in the 11's out of the box, and in the low 10's with a tire on it, and some headers. This is currently a 40 year old car! 

Now, we're not talking cars here. We are talking technology. While fuel injection may net you better gas mileage. Carburetors are still used today in racing. Why? They are simple, low maintenance pieces with all the power potential of current fuel injection. Funny how technology has advanced, and yet, a proven "Old School" method is used and proven to be superior in racing. 

I liken this to your power supply argument, and the current direction of amps in general. 

Today's amp designers are pushing towards class D amps. This is similar to today fuel injection. They are certainly more efficient, but are they really better as far as SQ is concerned. I've yet to hear anyone give a resounding yes to that question. Most often the argument degenerates into an efficiency argument. 

Todays amps are also rolled off an assembly line, and built by the cheapest bidder. They are disposable amps. There is no build quality. There is no thought into what is the best part for the job, simply what is the cheapest part for the job. 

There are a few exceptions to this rule, Zed, Tru, and hopefully soon LP will be those exceptions. 

BTW, What real benefit does a pwm supply give you? It makes the same output regardless of the cars voltage? Where is that truly helpful? What supposed sound benefits do newer PWM supplies have?


----------



## SQ_MGB

vjgli said:


> But guys this **** was designed back in 1980's. Who the hell brags about their 1978 camaro with weber carbs when one whats the best????
> 
> The amp is still a great product. But to compare current amp designs using advanced PWM controller, no chance.
> You can do all the frigin MODS but it's still a Carburetor not fuel-injection.
> 
> To Ray, if you have no experience in designing a FET PS from scratch, then just say it. Don't try to discredit the clear advantage.
> 
> Still pissed off or confused?
> A '68 Camaro SS is a classic. However, it will not be a fair comparison to '10 Camaro. Especially, if they had to race against each other.QUOTE]
> 
> A Buick Grand National is from the 80's as well, uses 6 cylinders, and I would stack it up against most anything from Detroit in 2009-2010.
> 
> I haven't seen too many manufacturers today that have amplifiers that last as long or sound as good as these "20-30 year old design" LP's, maybe you could educate all of us and build one yourself and show all of us how much we don't know.
> 
> I am an accountant by trade, but I spend my money where I feel I get the best value. If I buy a "modern" amplifier, and it breaks in a year or two, and I buy another and it does the same thing, how many amps do I have to buy to equal the longevity of ONE LP? I end up spending the same amount of money over the long haul and have the added inconvenience of having to crawl in and out of the trunk multiple times to change them out.
> 
> LP amps have a PROVEN track record...anyone remember the "Big Amp Test" one of the magazines did many years back where they compared the HiFonics Zeus or whatever their big amp was, the Fosgate Power 1000 and all the others including the LP 5002? They killed all the other amps in that test (several of the same amp from each manufacturer) but they could not get the 5002 to fail. They could NOT kill that amp. And that's based on a 20 year old design. If the new stuff is so good, why doesn't it LAST?
> 
> I have no problem with someone coming in here and talking about the merits of someone else's product and showing how it's better, so please show us all how the new stuff is superior with examples, not by knocking one of the most knowledgeable people in the industry and definitely the most straight shooting person I know. I may not like the answer I get from Ray every time, but at least I know if he tells me something I can take it to the bank. Give me some examples of how the new stuff is better....PLEASE!! Enquiring minds want to know!!!


----------



## Oliver

quote>

Previous tests of a dozen high-end car stereo
power amplifiers in the home (parts one through
three of "The Big Amp Test," November/Decem-
ber 1988, January/February 1989, and March/April
1989) demonstrated that these components were
fully the equal of their home counterparts.

quote>

I couldn't find the article


----------



## Genxx

WRX/Z28 said:


> Hey, let's compare top camaro's for the analogy. The 2010 currently is being reported to run 13.3 quarter mile times. The fastest 1st gen would be the 1969 ZL1. The ZL1 was reported to run in the 11's out of the box, and in the low 10's with a tire on it, and some headers. This is currently a 40 year old car!


The ZL1 in stock form without a few mods like headers, exh. ect. ran 13.2 1/4 0-60 5.3 sec. Only 69 of these cars were produced and it was a COPO project.

'69 Camaro SS 1/4 mile 16.0 0-60 8.0 sec.

Looks like the New SS kills the old SS playing the numbers game.
2010 Camaro 1/4 mile 13.3 0-60 4.6.

The fastest Camaro with no additional mods is the Yanko 1/4 mile 11.9 0-60 5.4.

Modern Day Yanko version-Hennessey HPE550 11.67 1/4 mile 0-60 3.6 sec. and this is not even talking abou the HPE700 yet. 

After the ZL1 and Yanko the numbers fall off drastically.

OOPs we are getting off topic again. I don't care about the LP amps you guys enjoy.


----------



## MACS

Genxx said:


> '69 Camaro SS 1/4 mile 16.0 0-60 8.0 sec.


I can assure you that a 1969 Camaro SS 396/375hp, which could be ordered from any dealership, is quite a bit faster than 16.0 in the 1/4 . Can it compare to a newer model in comfort and driveability? Absolutely not, but damn it was fast and could shred a set of G60-15 tires. Put modern drag radials or slicks on one and look out.

Unless someone has had the pleasure of driving a 60's-70's big block muscle car they will never understand what they were capable of. Numbers on a website or in a magazine article don't mean squat.


----------



## 6APPEAL

vjgli said:


> After reading this thread [quite long now], I feel the passion in many people and is exciting to read. LP has seen better days. I can understand with TIPS trying to keep the name going and more power to them.
> I have installed all of them, runt, 1502, 2502, 2502iq, 5002, 6002, 4753, PAR II, PA IIR remote(I think) and multiple 8002 with shroud always.
> 
> But guys this **** was designed back in 1980's. Who the hell brags about their 1978 camaro with weber carbs when one whats the best????
> The only reason why the amp sits in a time capsule is when Peter died Ruth made him into a martyr and refused the change the design. Jerry finally gave up on her and left for Kicker back in 1997. Ruth buried this company all by herself.
> 
> The amp is still a great product. But to compare current amp designs using advanced PWM controller, no chance.
> You can do all the frigin MODS but it's still a Carburetor not fuel-injection.
> 
> To Ray, if you have no experience in designing a FET PS from scratch, then just say it. Don't try to discredit the clear advantage.
> 
> Still pissed off or confused?
> A '68 Camaro SS is a classic. However, it will not be a fair comparison to '10 Camaro. Especially, if they had to race against each other.
> 
> LP is a great nostalgic piece of equipment. Hell, I still own my 2502iQ & 6002 which Jerry removed the gain stage for me back in 1995. So that I can run a DBX line driver with 30dB gain.


Homes, you (and any other basher) need to put your money where your mouth is. Start a business, design your "great amp", tool up (in the USA), build it (in the USA), market it (world wide), and sell it (world wide). Call us back in 20 years to see it anyone still wants your amp (if it even still works), much less still have it selling used for nearly as much as it did when it was produced 20 years ago or in some cases more than it retailed for 20 years ago.

Pretty much everyone here knows Ray and I are good friends. But damn, Ray, LP and some LP fans have been bashed to hell and back since Ray started posting on this board. And I sure as hell haven't see Andy (Andy Wehmeyer, JBL), Manville (msmith, JL Audio) or any other manufacturer/rep/owner getting the crap beat out of them just about every time they post. Is it any wonder why other car audio boards have failed after they turn into a ***** and bash fest.

Ray does a good job of defending himself/LP and sure as hell doesn't need me or anyone else's help, but he shouldn't have to catch crap everytime he posts. Since Ray started posting, every time I go see him at the shop the conversation starts with the latest bashing. No wonder he's ignored so many "audio enthusiasts" board invitations in the past. Damn, if you hate LP that much, then by all means ignore the LP threads.

I guess I better put my flame suit back on:z: and prepare for my next round of getting bashed.:bash:
John


----------



## ca90ss

WRX/Z28 said:


> Most often the argument degenerates into an efficiency argument.


That's because arguing about amp "sq" is retarded. At least the efficiency and size argument has some merit.


----------



## ca90ss

6APPEAL said:


> Homes, you (and any other basher) need to put your money where your mouth is. Start a business, design your "great amp", tool up (in the USA), build it (in the USA), market it (world wide), and sell it (world wide). Call us back in 20 years to see it anyone still wants your amp (if it even still works), much less still have it selling used for nearly as much as it did when it was produced 20 years ago or in some cases more than it retailed for 20 years ago.


Why do that when you can just buy the name of a dead company and recycle their old designs?


----------



## benny

nvrmnd. everybody here knows better anyway.


----------



## SQ_MGB

ca90ss said:


> Why do that when you can just buy the name of a dead company and recycle their old designs?


Ray has done a HELL of a lot more than "just buy the name of a dead company and recycle their old designs." He has been involved with LP since the beginning, and he and Jerry have made many improvements to the design over the years. 

What have YOU built/designed/manufactured?

Flame suit on.... :z:


----------



## 6APPEAL

ca90ss said:


> Why do that when you can just buy the name of a dead company and recycle their old designs?


Well then by all means, buy a dead company and recycle their designs.

Ray would have to speak about the "dead company" aspect, since I do not know the business details of him/TIPS becoming LP. But, I do know that Ray is LP with Ruth's blessing.
John


----------



## chad

WRX/Z28 said:


> While fuel injection may net you better gas mileage. Carburetors are still used today in racing. Why? They are simple, low maintenance pieces with all the power potential of current fuel injection. Funny how technology has advanced, and yet, a proven "Old School" method is used and proven to be superior in racing.


I firmly believe that you will see carbs die off (actually it's happening) in racing as the new generation that's savvy with the newer technology comes into the arena. I got a LOT of **** running an injected, laptop tunable vehicle at the track, But it worked, EVERY TIME and 50 percent of the olf farts hated me, 25 % were confused but admitted it was cool, and the other 25% were right behind me. Incidentally the last 25 percent were also the group that owned a calculator with an LCD display


----------



## DAT

MACS said:


> I can assure you that a 1969 Camaro SS 396/375hp, which could be ordered from any dealership, is quite a bit faster than 16.0 in the 1/4 . Can it compare to a newer model in comfort and driveability? Absolutely not, but damn it was fast and could shred a set of G60-15 tires. Put modern drag radials or slicks on one and look out.
> 
> Unless someone has had the pleasure of driving a 60's-70's big block muscle car they will never understand what they were capable of. Numbers on a website or in a magazine article don't mean squat.



I used to own a 72 Camaro Z28 , factory everything 300+hp / 350 fast as **** and I loved it, hated to sale at the time but I was young. 

anyway I still love the Camaro but have to say the Dodge cars of today are better looking. Have you seen the ugly dash and interior of the Camaro yuck.
I would still take an old Chevy Camaro over anything new because they have style and power. 

LP's are like that to me Mod fixed or not I love them. 

But honestly who cares whats fast or better, this is a *LINEAR POWER Discussion* and not a slam fest. If you don't like them get F' off the thread.

I don't come to your threads and bash your amps or speakers.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Genxx said:


> The ZL1 in stock form without a few mods like headers, exh. ect. ran 13.2 1/4 0-60 5.3 sec. Only 69 of these cars were produced and it was a COPO project.
> 
> '69 Camaro SS 1/4 mile 16.0 0-60 8.0 sec.
> 
> Looks like the New SS kills the old SS playing the numbers game.
> 2010 Camaro 1/4 mile 13.3 0-60 4.6.
> 
> The fastest Camaro with no additional mods is the Yanko 1/4 mile 11.9 0-60 5.4.
> 
> Modern Day Yanko version-Hennessey HPE550 11.67 1/4 mile 0-60 3.6 sec. and this is not even talking abou the HPE700 yet.
> 
> After the ZL1 and Yanko the numbers fall off drastically.
> 
> OOPs we are getting off topic again. I don't care about the LP amps you guys enjoy.


I assure you these numbers are only correct with stock tires. 

If you put nothing more than a good tire on a ZL1, 11 second 1/4 passes all day. Look it up. 

Same goes for the SS. If you think a 375hp 396 powered SS really ran a 16.0 when driven by anyone with any smidge of experience, and a decent tire, I have some lovely property in the everglades I'd like to sell you. 

I don't know about you, but I don't consider a different tire to be a "modification". I'm sure some will disagree though. 

Yenko's were dealer Modded, so I left them out. They too prove that old school doesn't always mean poor performance. 

BTW, the fastest production camaro was not the Yenko. Sorry bud, it was actually the phase III 2002 ZL1 Camaro. Look it up. 

Also, all cars dropped off after 1970 or so, do I really need to explain why?


----------



## WRX/Z28

ca90ss said:


> That's because arguing about amp "sq" is retarded. At least the efficiency and size argument has some merit.


Oh jesus, this argument again? Really?


----------



## WRX/Z28

chad said:


> I firmly believe that you will see carbs die off (actually it's happening) in racing as the new generation that's savvy with the newer technology comes into the arena. I got a LOT of **** running an injected, laptop tunable vehicle at the track, But it worked, EVERY TIME and 50 percent of the olf farts hated me, 25 % were confused but admitted it was cool, and the other 25% were right behind me. Incidentally the last 25 percent were also the group that owned a calculator with an LCD display


It's really not that the current racers don't know how to use fuel injection, it's just that cost/performance ratio is in the toilet. 

FYI, my camaro is injected, despite the nagging of a few friends to "rip it off and throw on a carburetor"


----------



## chad

WRX/Z28 said:


> FYI, my camaro is injected, despite the nagging of a few friends to "rip it off and throw on a carburetor"


I liked the ability to change the tune, switch from the fuel cell, put the cooler in the back, and driver the sucker home


----------



## 6APPEAL

WRX/Z28 said:


> It's really not that the current racers don't know how to use fuel injection, it's just that cost/performance ratio is in the toilet.


X2 Just got home from Buick Nationals. All the modern cars (GN's, FWD GS's) were FI and all the NA and supercharged old cars (GS's, Skylark's, etc) were carb'ed. Carbs just work, so hy mess with something that works. I agree that the price point is the big kicker. To move a carb'ed car to FI is quite an investment of time and parts, which is money. The aftermarket would not be developing carb manifolds for the new motors if they could not sell them. I've seen plenty of Rod's and old school muscle cars with LS motor conversions running a carb. It's just too easy. I will agree that there is a group of old schoolers that flat don't understand FI and stay stuck in their ways. You will not see a carb on a new car, but I don't see the aftermarket and Muscle car/Rod guys giving up the ease and "period correctness" of carbs.
John


----------



## WRX/Z28

chad said:


> I liked the ability to change the tune, switch from the fuel cell, put the cooler in the back, and driver the sucker home


My buddy has pointed out to me that he can change jets, adjust timing, and basically "tune" his carbeurator more quickly than I can pull out my laptop, and start it up. lol

I'm not a carburetor fan by any means, I don't own one, but they have their advantages.


----------



## chad

WRX/Z28 said:


> I'm not a carburetor fan by any means, I don't own one, but they have their advantages.


Absolutely, we are on the same page. I've been in both circles.


----------



## 6APPEAL

chad said:


> I liked the ability to change the tune, switch from the fuel cell, put the cooler in the back, and driver the sucker home


That's what I love about my GN's. Except I just turn up the boost controller, dial in more methanol with the controller, air down the drag radials, then burn down the strip a few times. Reverse the changes and cruise home with the air on. I rarely touch the base program in my FAST system, but I know what you're talking about Chad.
John


----------



## WRX/Z28

6APPEAL said:


> That's what I love about my GN's. Except I just turn up the boost controller, dial in more methanol with the controller, air down the drag radials, then burn down the strip a few times. Reverse the changes and cruise home with the air on. I rarely touch the base program in my FAST system, but I know what you're talking about Chad.
> John


Stop stop, I don't need to buy a 4th car. lol


----------



## 6APPEAL

WRX/Z28 said:


> Stop stop, I don't need to buy a 4th car. lol


Come to the Dark Side!:laugh:
John


----------



## 6APPEAL

Vader awaits!


----------



## Genxx

WRX/Z28 said:


> If you put nothing more than a good tire on a ZL1, 11 second 1/4 passes all day. Look it up.


No **** look it up, really. Were they hell do you think I got the info I published from. You think I new that off the top of my head.

Those are published specs from 1969 and the ZL1 numbers came from a test done in 1993. They tested a bone stock one with stock tires it ran a 13.3. They then tested one that had headers, exh. and a some tuning and ran a 11.97 best pass with street slicks.

You cannot compare a car that only 69 were made to the mass produced 2010 Camaro SS. If we are doing that then the its the ZL1 agianst the HPE550 that can be special purchased from your local dealership just like the ZL1 was. The HPE kills the ZL1 all day, as the HPE ran 11.67 1/4 all day.

I am not going to own either a ZL1 or Camaro period but let's at least compare apple to apple's here.


----------



## PimpMySound

DAT said:


> my LP Collection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hit the goldmine





DAT said:


> all I know is my friend ordered a bunch of the amps for resale. He shot me the pic.
> 
> I'm buying a 952IQ from him next week. I'll pay him when i get it. And post pics here.
> 
> If it works out I'm buying more.


Nice thread here!

Unfortunately, it is *my* collection and *I* shot this pic in *my* warehouse:












And here, as a little proof, is another pic that hasn't been online yet:









No one has ordered 13 amps from me so far.

And 400 $ for a 992IQ is a nice 50 % markup over my price of 267 $ for 1 amp including shipping to the US. By the way, if someone orders more than 1 amp, the shipping costs would be much lower per amp.

By the way, is someone interested in new heatsinks for 2502 IQ and 5002 IQ?


----------



## bass_lover1

Interested in the heatsink for the 5002IQ  

The heatsink on my 5002 is pretty banged up. What color do you have?


----------



## TrickyRicky

PimpMySound said:


> Nice thread here!
> 
> Unfortunately, it is *my* collection and *I* shot this pic in *my* warehouse:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here, as a little proof, is another pic that hasn't been online yet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one has ordered 13 amps from me so far.
> 
> And 400 $ for a 992IQ is a nice 50 % markup over my price of 267 $ for 1 amp including shipping to the US. By the way, if someone orders more than 1 amp, the shipping costs would be much lower per amp.
> 
> By the way, is someone interested in new heatsinks for 2502 IQ and 5002 IQ?


I need more proof than that. I seen those pics on a website that was in Russia or Germany. Give everyone the website and let all of us buy all those from you.


----------



## [email protected]

Jeanious2009 said:


> I need more proof than that. I seen those pics on a website that was in Russia or Germany. Give everyone the website and let all of us buy all those from you.


this is the website they are on

pimpmysound


----------



## TrickyRicky

BeatsDownLow said:


> this is the website they are on
> 
> pimpmysound


Yeah, thats the website I was also talking about. I knew I seen those pics before (about 8 months ago). I was very interested in buying a few, but when I translated it in english it didnt let me check out any LPs. Could you send me some pics of those new heatsinks. I need a few for my 2502IQ's.


----------



## bass_lover1

And that is his website. Another member on here is friends with the guy.


----------



## kappa546

I need a 2502 heatsink! i'd love to stuff my two HIGHLY modified 1002's in the same case and make them a kickass 4ch


----------



## TrickyRicky

BeatsDownLow said:


> this is the website they are on
> 
> pimpmysound


The real owner is me, lol I couldnt resisnt since DAT and BeatsDownLow stated that was their picture. I know that the real owner of the website or warehouse is in Germany, so yes PIMPMYSYSTEM is the guy.


----------



## [email protected]

Jeanious2009 said:


> The real owner is me, lol I couldnt resisnt since DAT and BeatsDownLow stated that was their picture. I know that the real owner of the website or warehouse is in Germany, so yes PIMPMYSYSTEM is the guy.


You own those?


----------



## DonovanM

I am not sure what you all are talking about... the real owner of the LP amps in those photos is me. PimpMySound, kindly remove your logo from my picture. Thank you!


----------



## TrickyRicky

DonovanM said:


> I am not sure what you all are talking about... the real owner of the LP amps in those photos is me. PimpMySound, kindly remove your logo from my picture. Thank you!


Well I dont care whos the owner. I just want a few new heatsinks for the 2502IQ's. So send me some pics of the heatsinks and prices.


----------



## ca90ss

SQ_MGB said:


> Ray has done a HELL of a lot more than "just buy the name of a dead company and recycle their old designs." He has been involved with LP since the beginning, and he and Jerry have made many improvements to the design over the years.
> 
> What have YOU built/designed/manufactured?
> 
> Flame suit on.... :z:


So how many has Ray come up with all by himself? Which amps are completely designed by Ray? Enlighten me on all of the great Ray's accomplishments because as far as I see it he's just been piggy backing of someone else's work

I don't see how that matters since building amps isn't my chosen profession. How many houses have you built? 


WRX/Z28 said:


> Oh jesus, this argument again? Really?


You're right, picking on "amp sq" people is kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. It's just too easy.


----------



## kappa546

this thread officially sucks now.


----------



## Mooble

ca90ss said:


> You're right, picking on "amp sq" people is kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. It's just too easy.


Why do people buy Linear Power? Mostly it's because of the purity of the sound. Why is that not legitimate? The more you put between you and the original signal, the more opportunity there is for distortion and coloration. There are plenty of good amps out there with crappy built-in crossovers or bass boost that is non-defeatable. LP and Tru are the only major manufacturers to embrace the less-is-more philosophy. That is pretty much my definition of SQ.


----------



## kappa546

Disclaimer: This is not an pro-LP statement by any means

I just don't understand how someone can make the argument that there is NO difference in sound in amps when i can just point at one component on most amps that certainly have an effect on the sound... the op-amps. 

But anyways... not a discussion I want to get involved in because it's old and lame so that's all i'll say about it.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Well I dont want to get involved, since i did once already with all this bashers, but if someone doesnt like or appreciates LP products, then just stay off the thread. It seems like people are jealous that LPs still are reliable, have premium SQ, Low distrotion percentages, high signal to noise ratio, and all of that is noticeable. I personally tried Linear power, and never will go back to any other brand (unless is really made and not just designed then made by some overseas cheap company, in the USA). 

Like I probably said before, I tested one CV stroker 12" (single 4-ohm) to a JBL GTI 1200.1 (which is 784watts RMS at 4-ohms, and 1150 watts RMS at 2-ohms) and within 20 minutes of regular play the freaking amp blew up and was smoking. That really pissed me off, especially after thinking the amp was going to push that stroker. Then I bought a 2502IQ (250watts rms at 8 or 4 ohms) and hooked it up to the same stroker, and it pushed it pounded it nicely and the SQ was amazing. And I kept it playing for about an hour and the amp didnt even get hot or near hot. I cant believe how a 250 watt amp could push vs a (suppost to be) 1200watt amp.


----------



## ca90ss

Mooble said:


> Why do people buy Linear Power? Mostly it's because of the purity of the sound. Why is that not legitimate? The more you put between you and the original signal, the more opportunity there is for distortion and coloration. There are plenty of good amps out there with crappy built-in crossovers or bass boost that is non-defeatable. LP and Tru are the only major manufacturers to embrace the less-is-more philosophy. That is pretty much my definition of SQ.


So what do Linear Power amps have that any one of a dozen other brands that have amps with only a gain knob don't have? I have an amp that doesn't even have a gain so does that make it an even better sq amp than an LP? The fact is that there are dozens of other amp brands out there that are sonically indistinguishable from Linear Power. They are nothing special and there's no fairy dust inside. They're just amps.


----------



## chad

kappa546 said:


> I just don't understand how someone can make the argument that there is NO difference in sound in amps when i can just point at one component on most amps that certainly have an effect on the sound... the op-amps.


mother of god........


----------



## chad

my fault manual dupe


----------



## ca90ss

kappa546 said:


> I just don't understand how someone can make the argument that there is NO difference in sound in amps when i can just point at one component on most amps that certainly have an effect on the sound... the op-amps.


Other than possibly lowering the noise floor I seriously doubt you'll hear an audible difference from one op-amp to another in a car amp.


----------



## unpredictableacts

Sorry, but I love to add fuel.....it is a hobby of mine that I picked up during the LA riots......So here goes nothing........



*ZUKI*

:laugh:


----------



## DonovanM

unpredictableacts said:


> Sorry, but I love to add fuel.....it is a hobby of mine that I picked up during the LA riots......So here goes nothing........
> 
> 
> 
> *ZUKI*
> 
> :laugh:


I was gonna clean the Elvis sweat off mine... but that's when I realized that that's what makes it sound so good :thumbsup:


----------



## unpredictableacts

DonovanM said:


> I was gonna clean the Elvis sweat off mine... but that's when I realized that that's what makes it sound so good :thumbsup:


That is not sweat.
jizz never sounded so damn good.


----------



## kappa546

chad said:


> mother of god........


care to add anything constructive to that? have either of you a/b'ed different chips rather than going by their specs? 

My experience has taught me better than to trust those numbers anyways. I actually would like to swap these on some of my amps for this very reason... Plus it's a reasonably affordable mod. *Noobs disregard this whole paragraph 

Whether they make an amp sound different and whether or not you can hear the difference in a moving car are different questions altogether. ok, THATS the last i'll say on the subject


----------



## unpredictableacts

kappa546 said:


> care to add anything constructive to that? have either of you a/b'ed different chips rather than going by their specs?
> 
> My experience has taught me better than to trust those numbers anyways. I actually would like to swap these on some of my amps for this very reason, the existing ones still sound great but aren't the purest... Plus it's a reasonably affordable mod. *Noobs disregard this whole paragraph
> 
> Whether they make an amp sound different and whether or not you can hear the difference in a moving car are different questions altogether. ok, THATS the last i'll say on the subject


What about the source that is feeding the amplifier?


----------



## kappa546

Yet another "myth" i believe in... *cough*DS-21*cough*


----------



## ca90ss

kappa546 said:


> have either of you a/b'ed different chips rather than going by their specs?


Yep, socketed the op-amps on one of my amps for just that purpose. Other than a difference in noisefloor they sounded exactly the same.


----------



## MarkZ

Mooble said:


> Why do people buy Linear Power? Mostly it's because of the purity of the sound. Why is that not legitimate? The more you put between you and the original signal, the more opportunity there is for distortion and coloration. There are plenty of good amps out there with crappy built-in crossovers or bass boost that is non-defeatable. LP and Tru are the only major manufacturers to embrace the less-is-more philosophy. That is pretty much my definition of SQ.


The lowest distortion amplifier designs have the most parts and are FAR from simple.

I don't have extensive experience with LP, but from what I gather from others and taking a casual look at the internals, they probably get their reputation by having some serious nuts to them. They're "overbuilt" in the output stage, are they not?

Too bad that most distortion characteristics are dictated by the input stage. 

Well, and the bias thermal tracking circuit. But I don't think LP does a particular special job in that arena either, if I was reading Ray right. The guys over on diyaudio have been talking about all kinds of tricks that the homebrew guys and a few amp companies are doing in that regard, but that LP (or most other CAR amps for that matter) aren't doing. The car audio companies always seem to be behind the rest. This seems true for speakers too, which is one reason why so many of us look to the "home" and "pro" sound arena for that. Too bad we can't (easily) do the same for amps.

But disregard the above.  I'm with ca90ss...there's not much use in chasing the percentage points when speakers and install are introducing distortion and FR variations that trump it. But...if it gives you a boner, then you want an amp with an "overbuilt" input stage and superior thermal tracking.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Genxx said:


> No **** look it up, really. Were they hell do you think I got the info I published from. You think I new that off the top of my head.


No, you and google are best friends. I can google **** too yah know.  Maybe you new that off the top of your head, but actually I knew it. 1969 reports are skewed a bit. 



Genxx said:


> Those are published specs from 1969 and the ZL1 numbers came from a test done in 1993. They tested a bone stock one with stock tires it ran a 13.3. They then tested one that had headers, exh. and a some tuning and ran a 11.97 best pass with street slicks.


Dude, in 1969 the published specs were skewed by crappy drivers and horrible bias ply tires. Are you seriously contending that the ZL1 gained most of its 11.40 pass (yes 11.40) from the damn headers? They might have added 10hp. Give me a break dude. You're missing it here. 

1/4 mile times are most often fought in the first 60ft. It's called traction! If you don't understand this, bow out of the conversation.



Genxx said:


> You cannot compare a car that only 69 were made to the mass produced 2010 Camaro SS. If we are doing that then the its the ZL1 agianst the HPE550 that can be special purchased from your local dealership just like the ZL1 was. The HPE kills the ZL1 all day, as the HPE ran 11.67 1/4 all day.


Why not? We're comparing 40 year old technology to current technology. That was the analogy? Or did you forget that I responded to someone elses post? 

Did you miss where I posted the 2002 ZL1? That car made 620hp, and ran in the 10's. What crack are you smoking that you think Hennessey's camaro is top dog? Jesus man. Digging yourself a hole are you?




Genxx said:


> I am not going to own either a ZL1 or Camaro period but let's at least compare apple to apple's here.


Then shutup about it, and stop making like your the expert on them. :laugh:

I might someday own one, if everything unfolds the way i'd like it to. lol.

Oh wait, I already own a 450+hp camaro. lol.


----------



## kappa546

ca90ss said:


> Yep, socketed the op-amps on one of my amps for just that purpose. Other than a difference in noisefloor they sounded exactly the same.




ok, thats YOUR experience and I respect that more than a blanket statement. So i'll respectfully disagree


----------



## WRX/Z28

ca90ss said:


> Yep, socketed the op-amps on one of my amps for just that purpose. Other than a difference in noisefloor they sounded exactly the same.


Ok, I'll bite. What did you compare the 2134 to, and what amp is that?


----------



## MarkZ

All this discussion about op amps... Wouldn't NO op amp be better than gazillion dollar op amp anyway? I mean, you don't NEED an op amp anywhere in an amp. People use it for all sorts of things (usually just a buffer). But the base of a BJT can be an adequate buffer too. And guess what the first component is that the signal hits in most amps (without gain knobs)? 

[Hint: don't say resistor. Those don't count.]


----------



## chad

kappa546 said:


> care to add anything constructive to that? have either of you a/b'ed different chips rather than going by their specs?


****ing-A right I have, whole consoles of money wasted... the only difference was in drivers driving INSANELY long lines... like up to a quarter mile  When driving a VERY, VERY long line quality DOES make a difference, but unfortunately if an amplifier is designed right you ain't gonna be driving a line that long 

In an older amp you are gonna hear the big difference by changing out the Passives that have dried out.... THaT made the difference in consoles that bake in the sun like a car amp 

some designs actually CALL FOR a FET based op amp such as a TLO72.. they don't suck at all.

I did not ADD my criticisms because I have added them here countless times before and said the exact same thing.


----------



## kappa546

MarkZ said:


> All this discussion about op amps... Wouldn't NO op amp be better than gazillion dollar op amp anyway? I mean, you don't NEED an op amp anywhere in an amp. People use it for all sorts of things (usually just a buffer). But the base of a BJT can be an adequate buffer too. And guess what the first component is that the signal hits in most amps (without gain knobs)?
> 
> [Hint: don't say resistor. Those don't count.]


HAHAHA yea that's why in my original statement I said "most amps". PG ZPA's come to mind... which those are pretty sick and have always wanted one.


----------



## kappa546

chad said:


> ****ing-A right I have, whole consoles of money wasted... the only difference was in drivers driving INSANELY long lines... like up to a quarter mile  When driving a VERY, VERY long line quality DOES make a difference, but unfortunately if an amplifier is designed right you ain't gonna be driving a line that long
> 
> In an older amp you are gonna hear the big difference by changing out the Passives that have dried out.... THaT made the difference in consoles that bake in the sun like a car amp
> 
> some designs actually CALL FOR a FET based op amp such as a *TLO72*.. they don't suck at all.
> 
> I did not ADD my criticisms because I have added them here countless times before and said the exact same thing.


cool... like i said before, i respect that more than a blanket statement. I'm pretty sure my Q50 has TLO74's in it.


----------



## ca90ss

WRX/Z28 said:


> Ok, I'll bite. What did you compare the 2134 to, and what amp is that?


It's an old crutchfield ca. 1984. Didn't do an extensive comparison, just a couple common ones, the original 4558, a tl072, a ne5532 and the BB.


----------



## WRX/Z28

kappa546 said:


> Yet another "myth" i believe in... *cough*DS-21*cough*


Do NOT summon that guy! If he shows up, i'm holding you personally responsible! :laugh:


----------



## WRX/Z28

ca90ss said:


> It's an old crutchfield ca. 1984. Didn't do an extensive comparison, just a couple common ones, the original 4558, a tl072, a ne5532 and the BB.


You are aware that's the crappiest BB there is?


----------



## thehatedguy

Glad someone said it...the 2134 is a step up from the other junk opamps you tried out. Talk about old design...5532 is the grand father of operational amplifiers.


----------



## thehatedguy

Ray, what would it take to do the servo mods to my 4.1 and the 3.2 you modded last year?


----------



## kappa546

ca90ss said:


> It's an old crutchfield ca. 1984. Didn't do an extensive comparison, just a couple common ones, the original 4558, a tl072, a ne5532 and the BB.


not exactly an apples to apples comparison here. At least we know what you consider to be on par with LP's


----------



## ca90ss

WRX/Z28 said:


> You are aware that's the crappiest BB there is?


They were $2 and I got the desired effect I was looking for so why look any further? 


kappa546 said:


> not exactly an apples to apples comparison here. At least we know what you consider to be on par with LP's


On par.... hell, it's better than the LP's I had. At least it makes rated power which I can't say the same for a couple of the LP's I tested.


----------



## WRX/Z28

ca90ss said:


> They were $2 and I got the desired effect I was looking for so why look any further?


If it did what you wanted it to, you don't need to look any further. 

My point is, you compared a low end BB to some other low end op amps. You heard only a noise floor difference, and surmised that op amps don't make any difference. Not exactly a fair, or proper test.


----------



## thehatedguy

Nope not a fair "test" at all.

Would be like me getting a 78 Caddy and dropping a 4 cylinder into it and then saying it is still bad on gas.


----------



## WRX/Z28

thehatedguy said:


> Nope not a fair "test" at all.
> 
> Would be like me getting a 78 Caddy and dropping a 4 cylinder into it and then saying it is still bad on gas.


Or testing a 78 caddy against a 78 Buick, and a 78 Pontiac and surmising that all cars are the same big, slow, gass guzzling POS"s.


----------



## ca90ss

WRX/Z28 said:


> My point is, you compared a low end BB to some other low end op amps. You heard only a noise floor difference, and surmised that op amps don't make any difference. Not exactly a fair, or proper test.


So what specifically makes them "low end" and what makes the others "better"? What makes the ne5532 bad for that matter? What would I supposedly gain going from these to something "better"?


----------



## Oliver

ca90ss said:


> So what specifically makes them "low end" and what makes the others "better"? What makes the ne5532 bad for that matter? What would I supposedly gain going from these to something "better"?


Hey to some people beef is beef 

Filet mignon, porterhouse, T-bone .... NO THANKS  { I ain't paying that much  }

I like me some McDonalds, Jack-in-the-Box, Arby's ,etc.., ...ummmm the good ****


----------



## circa40

Hey the old crutchfield has 105 degree caps


----------



## ChrisB

ca90ss said:


> They were $2 and I got the desired effect I was looking for so why look any further?
> 
> 
> On par.... hell, it's better than the LP's I had. At least it makes rated power which I can't say the same for a couple of the LP's I tested.


Don't tell me that Purple 5002IQ that you worked on that subsequently made its way to me didn't make rated power. I don't think my mind can take much more disappointment.


----------



## MarkZ

It's usually fairly easy to find the published specs of op amps.


----------



## chad

MarkZ said:


> It's usually fairly easy to find the published specs of op amps.


You can't trust specs because they have yet to derive a unit of measure for Ess-Que.


----------



## ChrisB

MarkZ said:


> It's usually fairly easy to find the published specs of op amps.


I got a bunch of hits on the TL072CP when I was comparing "modified" versus "stock"


----------



## Genxx

WRX/Z28 said:


> Dude, in 1969 the published specs were skewed by crappy drivers and horrible bias ply tires. Are you seriously contending that the ZL1 gained most of its 11.40 pass (yes 11.40) from the damn headers? They might have added 10hp. Give me a break dude. You're missing it here.
> 
> 1/4 mile times are most often fought in the first 60ft. It's called traction! If you don't understand this, bow out of the conversation.


I understand it just fine. Thanks though for thinking you are the only one on this forum that knows anything about how HP/Torque the role each plays and the 1/4 mile.:laugh:

The numbers I posted I said where done in 1993 but also gave you the claimed numbers in 1969.

Here is what many claim even Hot Rod mag. about the header situation. It can be verified all over the web that with headers and slicks the car will run a 11.6 1/4 mile with those just those two mods.
The HOT ROD 1 69 Camaro Aluminum ZL1 454 Crate Motor
The Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - FirstGenCamaro.com - Only 67/69 Camaros.

I am not disagreeing with you that the '69 and '02 ZL1 Camaro's are badass. What I am disagreeing with is that newer technology is not kicking the **** out of older technology in this comparison.



> Why not? We're comparing 40 year old technology to current technology. That was the analogy? Or did you forget that I responded to someone elses post?


No, comparing a 2002 model to a 2010 model is a new to new comparison.



> Did you miss where I posted the 2002 ZL1? That car made 620hp, and ran in the 10's. What crack are you smoking that you think Hennessey's camaro is top dog? Jesus man. Digging yourself a hole are you?


You did originally post the '69 version for a old vs. new comparison. The 2002 ZL1 is new technology, not old. So you are still comparing new to new with the 2010.

Read about your beloved 2002 model which had the Z06 engine in it. It did not make 620hp from the factory it was 400hp. They did sell what they called a Phase III conversion with 620hp which cost an additional option price of $23,995. Total purchase price of the Phase III was around $90,000.

CamaroZ28.Com - 2002 Camaro ZL1 Prototype





> Then shutup about it, and stop making like your the expert on them. :laugh:
> 
> I might someday own one, if everything unfolds the way i'd like it to. lol.
> 
> Oh wait, I already own a 450+hp camaro. lol.


I am not the expert on anything Camaro, I know the Mustang much better and know the Prelude/S2000 way better than both. Anyone can google and the information is there in abundance. 

Actually the HPE700 from Hennessey is the top dog. Newer technology.
Hennessey 2010 Chevrolet Camaro 705-HP!! (HPE700) - Camaro Forum - 2009 Camaro / 2010 Camaro / New Camaro SS Z28 Forums - Camaro5.com

I think we actually agree on this more than we disagree. The only issue I had was comparing the '69 as better than newer technology, which IMO is just the case on this particular car discussion.

I may have misunderstood what your point was entirely, which happens on the interwebz.

This conversation has nothing to with LP and could care less about LP as it is a amp, if you like them great, I like amps to. However, all this nut hugging and banter about their the most awesomest (not even an actually word) is just plain silly.IMO

This car conversation is more interesting anyways.


----------



## manina

Sorry but I'm getting lost. 

When Ray started to build the Camaro?

Because this is a thread about LPs and the current owner of the brand, right?


----------



## Oliver

LP equals BMW


----------



## Oliver

MarkZ said:


> *The lowest distortion amplifier designs have the most *parts and are FAR from simple.
> 
> I don't have extensive experience with LP, but from what I gather from others and taking a casual look at the internals, they probably get their reputation by having some serious nuts to them. They're "overbuilt" in the output stage, are they not?
> 
> Too bad that most distortion characteristics are dictated by the input stage.
> 
> Well, and the bias thermal tracking circuit. But I don't think LP does a particular special job in that arena either, if I was reading Ray right. The guys over on diyaudio have been talking about all kinds of tricks that the homebrew guys and a few amp companies are doing in that regard, but that LP (or most other CAR amps for that matter) aren't doing. The car audio companies always seem to be behind the rest. This seems true for speakers too, which is one reason why so many of us look to the "home" and "pro" sound arena for that. Too bad we can't (easily) do the same for amps.
> 
> But disregard the above.  I'm with ca90ss...there's not much use in chasing the percentage points when speakers and install are introducing distortion and FR variations that trump it. But...if it gives you a boner, then you want an amp with an "overbuilt" input stage and superior thermal tracking.


True Dat


----------



## mokedaddy

a$$hole said:


> quote>
> 
> Previous tests of a dozen high-end car stereo
> power amplifiers in the home (parts one through
> three of "The Big Amp Test," November/Decem-
> ber 1988, January/February 1989, and March/April
> 1989) demonstrated that these components were
> fully the equal of their home counterparts.
> 
> quote>
> 
> I couldn't find the article


The article is from October 1991. And actually included (2) 8002s. And I am pretty sure the article stated that the orion was the only amp that did not shut down. I have the issue somewhere just cant place it at the moment.


----------



## ca90ss

a$$hole said:


> Hey to some people beef is beef
> 
> Filet mignon, porterhouse, T-bone .... NO THANKS  { I ain't paying that much  }
> 
> I like me some McDonalds, Jack-in-the-Box, Arby's ,etc.., ...ummmm the good ****


We're not talking filet mignon vs. Arby's here, more like comparing a burger cooked on the left side of the grill vs. the right.


circa40 said:


> Hey the old crutchfield has 105 degree caps


Only because I put them there. The power supply caps are still 85 degree but only because I couldn't find a decent 105 degree axial cap. I did go from 2200uf each to 4700uf each though.


06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Don't tell me that Purple 5002IQ that you worked on that subsequently made its way to me didn't make rated power. I don't think my mind can take much more disappointment.


Never benched that one. In all fairness to Oskar I did sell him a dozen amps or so and I told him a couple weren't %100 and to check them out before doing anything with them and he probably tested it and since it worked assumed it wasn't one of the ones that needed work. I don't think he would have intentionally sent that amp out if he had known it needed work.


----------



## capnxtreme

ca90ss said:


> We're not talking filet mignon vs. Arby's here, more like comparing a burger cooked on the left side of the grill vs. the right.


I'll take the one on the left, as long as it's grilled by a monkey.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Genxx said:


> I understand it just fine. Thanks though for thinking you are the only one on this forum that knows anything about how HP/Torque the role each plays and the 1/4 mile.:laugh:
> 
> The numbers I posted I said where done in 1993 but also gave you the claimed numbers in 1969.
> 
> Here is what many claim even Hot Rod mag. about the header situation. It can be verified all over the web that with headers and slicks the car will run a 11.6 1/4 mile with those just those two mods.
> The HOT ROD 1 69 Camaro Aluminum ZL1 454 Crate Motor
> The Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - FirstGenCamaro.com - Only 67/69 Camaros.
> 
> I am not disagreeing with you that the '69 and '02 ZL1 Camaro's are badass. What I am disagreeing with is that newer technology is not kicking the **** out of older technology in this comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> No, comparing a 2002 model to a 2010 model is a new to new comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> You did originally post the '69 version for a old vs. new comparison. The 2002 ZL1 is new technology, not old. So you are still comparing new to new with the 2010.
> 
> Read about your beloved 2002 model which had the Z06 engine in it. It did not make 620hp from the factory it was 400hp. They did sell what they called a Phase III conversion with 620hp which cost an additional option price of $23,995. Total purchase price of the Phase III was around $90,000.
> 
> CamaroZ28.Com - 2002 Camaro ZL1 Prototype
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not the expert on anything Camaro, I know the Mustang much better and know the Prelude/S2000 way better than both. Anyone can google and the information is there in abundance.
> 
> Actually the HPE700 from Hennessey is the top dog. Newer technology.
> Hennessey 2010 Chevrolet Camaro 705-HP!! (HPE700) - Camaro Forum - 2009 Camaro / 2010 Camaro / New Camaro SS Z28 Forums - Camaro5.com
> 
> I think we actually agree on this more than we disagree. The only issue I had was comparing the '69 as better than newer technology, which IMO is just the case on this particular car discussion.
> 
> I may have misunderstood what your point was entirely, which happens on the interwebz.
> 
> This conversation has nothing to with LP and could care less about LP as it is a amp, if you like them great, I like amps to. However, all this nut hugging and banter about their the most awesomest (not even an actually word) is just plain silly.IMO
> 
> This car conversation is more interesting anyways.


I think you did miss it. The2002 Phase III ZL1 was a gm production car. It ran in the 10's with a good tire on it. The HPE 2010 camaro is not running those #'s. Probably due to the extra weight the 2010 has on it. Again, the ZL1 is superior. 

I wasn't comparing the 2002 to the 2010. Even though they are really 13 years seperated in technology. (the base LS motor came out in 1996 as the new '97 vette motor) 

My comparison was the 1969 ZL1 car to today's SS. The old '69 is completely capable of shredding the new SS with exhaust mod's and a tire (I still say the tire was the main time changer). 

Comparing that to LP was just my way of saying "Hello, just because it was designed a bunch of years ago doesn't mean it's obsolete, or a poor performer." 

Maybe we're more in agreement than disagreement. Except for the top camaro argument. I still say the 2002 ZL1 poops on the HPE.


----------



## Z06VETTE PIMP

mokedaddy said:


> The article is from October 1991. And actually included (2) 8002s. And I am pretty sure the article stated that the orion was the only amp that did not shut down. I have the issue somewhere just cant place it at the moment.


You are correct, the Orion did not shut down......now I gotta go find the magazine..........


----------



## TrickyRicky

mokedaddy said:


> The article is from October 1991. And actually included (2) 8002s. And I am pretty sure the article stated that the orion was the only amp that did not shut down. I have the issue somewhere just cant place it at the moment.


I bet Orions CEO's must of paid that magazine some money to state that. Most amp test that I known of is to turn up the volume all the way up, and measure ratings like that, but I think is more of a "who gots the cleaner deeper and louder bass amps" by louder I mean still having top SQ.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> I bet Orions CEO's must of paid that magazine some money to state that


Uh, apparently you don't realize how tough those Orion amplifiers were built back then! I knew a local installer who ran his whole setup at 1/4 of an ohm off of a HCCA 225 in 1990. I didn't care for how he used light bulbs to protect his mids and highs because they seemed to "cut out" when the bass hit. Regardless, you would be hard pressed to find an amplifier built these days that could run at 1/4 of an ohm on a DAILY basis!

Lastly, I highly doubt Richard LeMay paid a magazine off, as you are implying, because his products were that damn good!

ETA: Just face it.... Linear Power amplifiers WERE NOT designed to be tortured! Don't believe me? Torture yours then come back and report the outcome of said torture! Better yet, send one to me, and I bet it won't survive MY torture test


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Uh, apparently you don't realize how tough those Orion amplifiers were built back then! I knew a local installer who ran his whole setup at 1/4 of an ohm off of a HCCA 225 in 1990. I didn't care for how he used light bulbs to protect his mids and highs because they seemed to "cut out" when the bass hit. Regardless, you would be hard pressed to find an amplifier built these days that could run at 1/4 of an ohm on a DAILY basis!
> 
> Lastly, I highly doubt Richard LeMay paid a magazine off, as you are implying because his products were that damn good!


I agree with how the old Orions were built tough. But now they all seem to be built in a foreign country with cheap components.

.25 ohm isnt very good to run amps. Just because and amplifier can/could go down that much is very un necessary. The lowest I would ever go is 2-ohms, and if possible I would avoid that. But ofcourse that depends on the amplifier (class D or AB). I do know that when you lower the resistance, you double the current being pulled, and double the distortion, not to mention you loose damping factor points, but you dont double your power since most of it is being burnt off through heat.


----------



## |Tch0rT|

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Uh, apparently you don't realize how tough those Orion amplifiers were built back then! I knew a local installer who ran his whole setup at 1/4 of an ohm off of a HCCA 225 in 1990. Regardless, you would be hard pressed to find an amplifier built these days that could run at 1/4 of an ohm on a DAILY basis!


And people wonder why Old School gets so much love around here. They don't make **** like they used to. Old school Rockford Fosgate, Orion, MTX, PPI, Linear Power, and some others always have my respect. It's like having a old school muscle car in the garage. 

Speaking of lower impedence (at least in the mid/late 90's) I remember that supposedly a lot of RF amps could be run at 2ohm mono no problem which very few amps could do at that time if I remember correctly. I dunno I could be wrong about that haha.

Ryan


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> I do know that when you lower the resistance, you double the current being pulled, and double the distortion, not to mention you loose damping factor points, but you dont double your power since most of it is being burnt off through heat.


This is a *BLANKET GENERAL ASSERTION* and is *NOT* true of *ALL* 12 volt amplifiers produced today!

Or to flip it, just think of the power that certain old school amplifiers would make if you had rated their 4 ohm, 2 ohm, and 1 ohm power ratings all at 1%. You fell victim to marketing because 4 ohm power could be something like .001%, 2 ohm power that doubled could be .01% and 1 ohm power could be rated at 1%. If they had rated all distortion levels evenly, you wouldn't have seen the theoretical doubling of power output as impedance kept being cut in half

ETA: I suggest you read **THIS**!


----------



## Oliver

quote>

But doubling the voltage instead (to achieve the same power) will still generate that heat.
*A 1 amp fuse would work in the following example:*
quote>
A 1.2 kohm resistor passes a current of 0.2 A, what is the voltage across it?

* Values: V = ?, I = 0.2 A, R = 1.2 kohm = 1200 ohm
(1.2 kohm is converted to 1200 ohm because A and kohm must not be used together)
* Equation: V = I × R
* Numbers: V = 0.2 × 1200 = 240 V 
quote>


We use smaller wire in commercial or residential,etc.., wire size can be smaller if less current flows 

So 110 volts, 220 volts, 440 volts { *If pressure is high/current is low* }

Current or gallons per minute of flow rate equals high heat [ high current design ]

ewes a gunna need some big wire !!!!


----------



## mokedaddy

|Tch0rT| said:


> Speaking of lower impedence (at least in the mid/late 90's) I remember that supposedly a lot of RF amps could be run at 2ohm mono no problem which very few amps could do at that time if I remember correctly. I dunno I could be wrong about that haha.
> 
> Ryan


Adcom, PG, Original SS, Pre Zed Optis, Zed Optis, Adcoms, Autoteks, Rodeks, VII and VIII Hifonics (not all), Rockfords, Kicker Zr's, Orions are just a few old schools that I have played with that would all do lower than rated impedance. Amps were simply overbuilt back then.

And FWIW about the amp test, it was the GS 500 that was tested and didnt shut down. Pretty friggin bulletproof amp right there.


----------



## WRX/Z28

chad said:


> You can't trust specs because they have yet to derive a unit of measure for Ess-Que.


They have come up with specs for sondsasame. Not to be confused with sondsaidentical.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Z06VETTE PIMP said:


> You are correct, the Orion did not shut down......now I gotta go find the magazine..........


What is Best Amp Ever made? - Page 11 - CARSOUND.COM Forum

Check post 109.


----------



## ChrisB

WRX/Z28 said:


> What is Best Amp Ever made? - Page 11 - CARSOUND.COM Forum
> 
> Check post 109.


It would appear that ear candy can't take the heat without closing down the kitchen:laugh:

5 minutes at 1/3 power... I am impressed. I am sure disciple of Ray, aka Jeanious2009, is going to come back with some conspiracy theory against Linear Power by the magazine doing the testing.:dead_horse:


----------



## mokedaddy

Constant duty even at 1/3 power is still a tough load to handle. 

I would be willing to bet there is no more than a handful of amps ever that could go for the entire half hour.

As to whether or not 5 minutes is enough...I doubt it shuts down during music but I have little experience with LP so I can not give first hand knowledge of the build quality.


----------



## ChrisB

Someone needs to scan this article into a PDF and post it. All my CA&E magazines from that time frame were ruined during Hurricane Rita 

ETA: Wouldn't shutting down after 5 minutes at 1/3 power seem to point to the amplifier not being as overbuilt as some have claimed it to be? Also, what about all these T03s only running at a fraction of their capacity. If all those other assertions were true, then the amp shouldn't have been begging for mercy after 5 minutes!


----------



## mokedaddy

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Someone needs to scan this article into a PDF and post it. All my CA&E magazines from that time frame were ruined during Hurricane Rita
> 
> ETA: Wouldn't shutting down after 5 minutes at 1/3 power seem to point to the amplifier not being as overbuilt as some have claimed it to be? Also, what about all these T03s only running at a fraction of their capacity. If all those other assertions were true, then the amp shouldn't have been begging for mercy after 5 minutes!


Like I said I am not very familiar with LPs so I can not comment on that. Maybe someone else with an objective view can chime in...

'Overbuilt' is also subjective so one persons idea of overbuilt may not match someone else's.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Eh, keep in mind, just because one amp "shut down" doesn't make it less of an amp. Maybe the thermal protect was set lower on that amp. Keep in mind "shut down" does not equal "blew up". If LP's were set to shut off at 160ish, and the orion was set to shut off at 180ish (or higher), that could explain the difference.


----------



## mokedaddy

WRX/Z28 said:


> Eh, keep in mind, just because one amp "shut down" doesn't make it less of an amp. Maybe the thermal protect was set lower on that amp. Keep in mind "shut down" does not equal "blew up". If LP's were set to shut off at 160ish, and the orion was set to shut off at 180ish (or higher), that could explain the difference.


All of them shut down with the exception of the Orion. I was not in any way knocking the LPs.

There are very few amps that could pass that kind of test and yes it could be for any number of reasons.


----------



## ChrisB

This: Linear Power: 4 ohms @ 660w, 2 ohms @ N/A and bridged at 4 ohms @ 660w (each 8002 is already internally bridged).

Is a tad bit different from the 800 watts RMS claimed at 4 or 8 ohms with a distortion rating of 0.080% at 12.5 volts! "Official Specs" taken from **HERE**


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> This: Linear Power: 4 ohms @ 660w, 2 ohms @ N/A and bridged at 4 ohms @ 660w (each 8002 is already internally bridged).
> 
> Is a tad bit different from the 800 watts RMS claimed at 4 or 8 ohms with a distortion rating of 0.080% at 12.5 volts! "Official Specs" taken from **HERE**


Anyone should know that LP's aren't made for SPL, but for SQ. Your comparing class D amps to a Class AB. I am pretty sure most of test were done running the amps at 2-ohms if not lower. And LP's are not made for that, their 4-ohms mono and up. The other am I do agree in being pretty strong are the old school rockfords. You can run those boys at 2-ohms and they push a lot, ofcourse with low SQ and damping factor.


----------



## ca90ss

Jeanious2009 said:


> Anyone should know that LP's aren't made for SPL, but for SQ. Your comparing class D amps to a Class AB. I am pretty sure most of test were done running the amps at 2-ohms if not lower. And LP's are not made for that, their 4-ohms mono and up. The other am I do agree in being pretty strong are the old school rockfords. You can run those boys at 2-ohms and they push a lot, ofcourse with low SQ and damping factor.


What differentiates a spl amp from a sq amp? All of the amps tested were a/b and if you'll notice the power given for the 8002 was at 4 ohm as well as the bridged power for all of the others.


----------



## TrickyRicky

ca90ss said:


> What differentiates a spl amp from a sq amp? All of the amps tested were a/b and if you'll notice the power given for the 8002 was at 4 ohm as well as the bridged power for all of the others.


Well I'll have to double check twice next time. But what I think differs a SPL from a SQ amp is that those SPL are made with high levels of distortion, and low levels of damping factor and signal to noise ratio. Ofcourse some people say you cant notice a note with 2% distortion to the same note with .010% distortion. So it doesnt matter to some people aslong as its loud and it can handle 1-ohm load.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Anyone should know that LP's aren't made for SPL, but for SQ. Your comparing class D amps to a Class AB. I am pretty sure most of test were done running the amps at 2-ohms if not lower. And LP's are not made for that, their 4-ohms mono and up. The other am I do agree in being pretty strong are the old school rockfords. You can run those boys at 2-ohms and they push a lot, ofcourse with low SQ and damping factor.


The 8002SW couldn't run for more than 5 minutes in 1991 at 1/3 of its rated power into a 4 ohm load. Back then, a Rockford Fosgate Power 1000 bridged to two channels @ 4 ohms would have been a better amp for your money versus spending $1,600 per Linear Power 8002SW! Hell, the 8002SW couldn't even produce its rated power at 4 ohms. Pretty pathetic for an amp that was guaranteed to produce a minimum of 800 watts RMS @ 12.5 volts on a 60 amp slow blow fuse! 



Jeanious2009 said:


> Well I'll have to double check twice next time. But what I think differs a SPL from a SQ amp is that those SPL are made with high levels of distortion, and low levels of damping factor and signal to noise ratio. Ofcourse some people say you cant notice a note with 2% distortion to the same note with .010% distortion. So it doesnt matter to some people aslong as its loud and it can handle 1-ohm load.


It's OK Jeanious2009, it really is. I just hope you don't come to the realization, like I did, that all those specs are just Hype and BS!


----------



## manina

I have a 2202 I want to run in mono - it's NOT the IQ and the bottom picture is missing so I'm not 100% sure of which connectors I have to use.

Step 1 - move the internal switch to bridge
Step 2- close the bottom of the amp
Step 3 - connect the sub to? PositiveR & Positive left? PositiveR and NegativeL?

Help is appreciated


----------



## TrickyRicky

manina said:


> I have a 2202 I want to run in mono - it's NOT the IQ and the bottom picture is missing so I'm not 100% sure of which connectors I have to use.
> 
> Step 1 - move the internal switch to bridge
> Step 2- close the bottom of the amp
> Step 3 - connect the sub to? PositiveR & Positive left? PositiveR and NegativeL?
> 
> Help is appreciated


All Linear Power amps are bridged with the two middle terminals, not the outter ones. Which is the two positives will be your connections. The right positive becomes your negative for you speaker/subwoofer. 

Just make sure that you use an external crossover to cut out any unwanted frequency. Also make sure that you dont go any lower than a 4-ohm mono load, if you do your on your own. For SQ go with 8-ohms and you wont be sorry.


----------



## DAT

Correct, I just hated that you can not at least go 2ohm maybe 3 ohm mono.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> All Linear Power amps are bridged with the two middle terminals, not the outter ones.


Here you go with your blanket general assertions again and as usual you are *WRONG* yet again! What about the LP, DPS, and HV series? 



Jeanious2009 said:


> For SQ go with 8-ohms and you wont be sorry.


 Prove it and reference my comment above about your blanket general assertions being WRONG!


----------



## briansz

manina said:


> I have a 2202 I want to run in mono - it's NOT the IQ and the bottom picture is missing so I'm not 100% sure of which connectors I have to use.
> 
> Step 1 - move the internal switch to bridge
> Step 2- close the bottom of the amp
> Step 3 - connect the sub to? PositiveR & Positive left? PositiveR and NegativeL?
> 
> Help is appreciated



You're talking about the power supply taps on the circuit board as far as a switch, right?


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Here you go with your blanket general assertions again and as usual you are *WRONG* yet again! What about the LP, DPS, and HV series?
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it and reference my comment above about your blanket general assertions being WRONG!


Well all the LPs that I own are bridged with the inside terminals, of course unless some idiot switched the wires inside, which has happend before. I havent own any HV's or DPS so dont know how their wired, also those are the newer line of LP which were made in the late 90's (hope am not wrong again). 

Also LPs are HIGH VOLTAGE not high current amps. So there is no need to go down to 1-ohm or .5-ohm to get the wanted power. Most amps today use a different power supply. And yes there has being a lot of discussions and disagreements about the power supplys (so am not going there). LPs are made for SQ, and everyone knows that when you lower the mono load the: SQ, Signal To Noise, THD and damping factor divides in half but your power (watts) doesnt double and most of the current being pulled on a 2-ohm load is being transfered to heat.


----------



## briansz

Label:










Switch:










PSU Taps:










You'll want to download a manual and make sure you get the PSU taps correct. I believe that you risk damaging the amp if they are set incorrectly when running anything below an 8-ohm mono load (going by memory here).

The amp in the pix is my personal 2202 that is configured for mono operation. Believe I last ran a 4 ohm sub as far as the taps position, but again, CHECK THIS with the manual or Ray before you run it!


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Well all the LPs that I own are bridged with the inside terminals, of course unless some idiot switched the wires inside, which has happend before. I havent own any HV's or DPS so dont know how their wired, also those are the newer line of LP which were made in the late 90's (hope am not wrong again).


So how can you say ALL then? 



Jeanious2009 said:


> LPs are made for SQ, and everyone knows that when you lower the mono load the: SQ, Signal To Noise, THD and damping factor divides in half but your power (watts) doesnt double and most of the current being pulled on a 2-ohm load is being transfered to heat.


Hmm, some things are not jiving here with your mythical ESS-QUE comments. 

Do you really think you can hear damping factor on modern subwoofers that have super stiff suspensions with XMAX that would literally walk all over a late 80s/90s era subwoofer? I think in most tests people can't determine damping factor differences until it drops below 100 and in some cases 50. 

Also, do you think you are going to hear Signal to Noise ratio on a subwoofer? Really? You should be able to tell on your mids and highs that exhibit a slight hiss, but on subs, NEVER.

Here is another one for you, I have a modern produced Lunar L2125 that absolutely walks all over my Linear Power 5002. I bridged the Linear Power 5002 @ 8 ohms mono to a JL Audio 13w6v2 and it can't touch the power that the L2125 puts out at 2 ohms mono!

Next, I will blow your mind with distortion. Do you really think you can hear 1% in subwoofers? In real world tests, many don't hear distortion in subwoofers until it reaches 10 to 30%. Sometimes they don't hear distortion until it hits 50%... 

You just keep believing the magical, mythical, hype involved with the TIPS modifications on an amplifier that can't even produce a test tone for 45 seconds @ 1/3 power due to its ancient power supply design! Before you say there is nothing in the real world that will ever push an amplifier to those limits, just know that there is. I have some Drum and Bass tracks that are harder on an amplifier than test tones. I should have taken a video of one of the Ell Pees going into protect on a DJ Hazard track. It works fine on other genres of music, but anything that stresses it drives it into protect. Pretty crappy for an ESS-QUE amplifier if you ask me! 

Lastly, all of your comments sound like you are just regurgitating the same BS spouted by Ray as to why Ell Pees are better than modern amplifiers.


----------



## chad

briansz said:


> Label:


You have already shot yourself in the foot, the label states that the amp is to be used with a shaft-style tape deck!


----------



## briansz

chad said:


> You have already shot yourself in the foot, the label states that the amp is to be used with a shaft-style tape deck!


Don't forget the two power wires, each with a 30A AGC fuse too. It won't turn on if you use a 60A Maxi on a single run of cable. 

This 2202 did well for sub duty, but it did get very very hot when flogged and occasionally shut down in the summer. It's a collectible for me, don't know if I would call it an ultimate SQ amp or anything. It is a robust amp that has for the most part not failed me, and I love the TO3's just because they are unusual.

Personally, I'm going to try out my Hifonics VIII Zeus at 8 ohms for sub duty now and if that doesn't work for me I will flash forward ten years and run the Rockford T5002 at 2 ohms. The LP lives in my attic.


----------



## chad

briansz said:


> and I love the TO3's just because they are unusual.


Although that was a great post... the quoted material just gave you mad props in my, and other people's book I'm sure


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> So how can you say ALL then?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, do you think you are going to hear Signal to Noise ratio on a subwoofer? Really? You should be able to tell on your mids and highs that exhibit a slight hiss, but on subs, NEVER.
> 
> Here is another one for you, I have a modern produced Lunar L2125 that absolutely walks all over my Linear Power 5002. I bridged the Linear Power 5002 @ 8 ohms mono to a JL Audio 13w6v2 and it can't touch the power that the L2125 puts out at 2 ohms mono!
> 
> Next, I will blow your mind with distortion. Do you really think you can hear 1% in subwoofers? In real world tests, many don't hear distortion in subwoofers until it reaches 10 to 30%. Sometimes they don't hear distortion until it hits 50%...
> 
> Lastly, all of your comments sound like you are just regurgitating the same BS spouted by Ray as to why Ell Pees are better than modern amplifiers.



Yeah I know you cant hear distortion and signal to noise nor THD on a subwoofer. You need mids and highs like you stated. If your so pissed off at LP, why dont you just sell me the ones you got that you never was satisfied to beging with. And just forget about LP, cause really what I think is your trying to let people know that they aint **** so you can buy them off of them for cheap. SO since I think your trying to do that, why dont you sell me all the ones you own real cheap since they dont live up to the hype. I will be more than glad to buy them so you wont have to mess with LP and live a happy life.


----------



## OSN

Jeanious2009 said:


> Yeah I know you cant hear distortion and signal to noise nor THD on a subwoofer. You need mids and highs like you stated. If your so pissed off at LP, why dont you just sell me the ones you got that you never was satisfied to beging with. And just forget about LP, cause really what I think is your trying to let people know that they aint **** so you can buy them off of them for cheap. SO since I think your trying to do that, why dont you sell me all the ones you own real cheap since they dont live up to the hype. I will be more than glad to buy them so you wont have to mess with LP and live a happy life.


I bet he'd bite if you low-balled him at $400 each.


----------



## bass_lover1

Why sell em cheap when you know someone will pay full price for them.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> why dont you sell me all the ones you own real cheap since they dont live up to the hype. I will be more than glad to buy


I paid top dollar for them, so guess what.. I am selling them for top dollar. I don't NEED to sell them, but I figured I may as well start ditching them and get something a little more worthwhile for my money.



OldSchoolNewbie said:


> I bet he'd bite if you low-balled him at $400 each.


He can try. Maybe I will bite, maybe I won't. I am leaning towards the latter though.:laugh:



bass_lover1 said:


> Why sell em cheap when you know someone will pay full price for them.


Exactly! This is America and capitalism rocks. If they don't sell here, they will go quick on eGay.


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I paid top dollar for them, so guess what.. I am selling them for top dollar. I don't NEED to sell them, but I figured I may as well start ditching them and get something a little more worthwhile for my money.
> 
> 
> 
> He can try. Maybe I will bite, maybe I won't. I am leaning towards the latter though.:laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! This is America and capitalism rocks. If they don't sell here, they will go quick on eGay.


Sorry to let you in on a little secrete. Egay isnt doing too well on LPs right now. Trust me I know since I just bought a new 2121 for 135.00, and a PA-II for 185.00 (which is pretty high). But i've been keeping track off all the LPs being sold and their not going like they use a couple of months ago. I guess everyone is struggling with money, not just me. But if you ever do decide to sell your LPs let me know, am intersted in your trash, lol.


----------



## Oliver

Very considerate of you , Jeanious2009 

I offerred him $300.00 for those door stops 

He even has drum tracks that are harder on those amps than a pure tone sweep 

From what I've read they can almost play for a minute before they thermally limit out , go into protection at 1/3 power :surprised:


----------



## TrickyRicky

a$$hole said:


> Very considerate of you , Jeanious2009
> 
> I offerred him $300.00 for those door stops
> 
> He even has drum tracks that are harder on those amps than a pure tone sweep
> 
> From what I've read they can almost play for a minute before they thermally limit out , go into protection at 1/3 power :surprised:


I never heard that, except from Mustang sally. I test each of my 2502IQ with two Cerwin Vega Stroker 12's (8-ohm mono load) and I turn up the volume and keep it that way for 30 minutes and yes they tend to get warm (but come on, thats how you know they're working). Also only the front half gets warm, the other half stays cool, I guess when one half goes hot the other half takes over, maybe???. When I turn up the gain 1/4 up the way they are really loud, and then get a little bit more warmer than usual. But I never had one of those 2502IQ shut off on me because of any reason.

The Strokers are rated at 1000watts each, and trust me they will pull as much power as they can get. I know I said this before but, I hooked a JBL GTI 1200.1 to just ONE STROKER, and within 20minutes the amp was boiling hot and just blew up in smoke, magic smoke. I just wonder why my 250watt LP doesnt do that with TWO strokers hooked on to it. TRY THAT with any other amp that is rated 1200watts or even a 250watt amp to be more specific and let me know what happends.


Also when I heard the 2502IQ with two strokers, the bass was way more clear, cleaner and deeper notes and tunes. Uncomperable to that JBL. It would be like comparing Pyramid sound quality to a theater.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Sorry to let you in on a little secrete. Egay isnt doing too well on LPs right now. Trust me I know since I just bought a new 2121 for 135.00, and a PA-II for 185.00 (which is pretty high). But i've been keeping track off all the LPs being sold and their not going like they use a couple of months ago. I guess everyone is struggling with money, not just me. But if you ever do decide to sell your LPs let me know, am intersted in your trash, lol.


I sold a LP 150 for $400 on eGay LAST WEEK, so say what you will!

ETA: If they don't sell now, I can just hang on to them and sell them later. It is not like I NEED the money.


----------



## WRX/Z28

Strange how quickly people jump off one bandwagon so they can jump right on to another one.


----------



## [email protected]

WRX/Z28 said:


> Strange how quickly people jump off one bandwagon so they can jump right on to another one.


Ya and dont feel validated unless the majority agree


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Wow, this abortion of a thread is STILL running and 22 pages LONG...... 

Give a man(men) a box, and he(they) will stand on it and speak his(their) mind..


----------



## ChrisB

a$$hole said:


> He even has drum tracks that are harder on those amps than a pure tone sweep


I knew I should have made a video of that test because of dissenters like you! Unfortunately, that amplifier has already been sold off.

Here is the kicker.... The test tone that shut the amplifier down was played at 1/3 power while trying to determine the output at clipping. Basically, I didn't get everything connected fast enough and learned to start the tone AFTER connecting the oscilloscope, and meters. (DOH!)

On the other hand, the Drum and Bass track that shut it down was played at close to full tilt just to see what would happen. I wanted to see if the amp could take a whole song of shifting bass patterns, and it couldn't do it on my subwoofer at 8 ohms without going into protect.

For everyone else, if you are happy with your almighty Ell Pee amplifiers, fine. Conversely, if you don't like them, fine. Either way, IDGAF!


----------



## Oliver

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I would be willing to bet that a 2202iq is just under rated more
> 
> I measured one of my unmodified 1502IQs at 110 watts RMS per channel just prior to clipping. Never had a 2202IQ to play with





06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> It would appear that ear candy can't take the heat without closing down the kitchen:laugh:





06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Someone needs to scan this article into a PDF and post it. All my CA&E magazines from that time frame were ruined during Hurricane Rita
> 
> ETA: Wouldn't shutting down after 5 minutes at 1/3 power seem to point to the amplifier not being as overbuilt as some have claimed it to be? Also, what about all these T03s only running at a fraction of their capacity. If all those other assertions were true, then the amp shouldn't have been begging for mercy after 5 minutes!





06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I knew I should have made a video of that test because of dissenters like you! Unfortunately, that amplifier has already been sold off.
> 
> Here is the kicker.... The test tone that shut the amplifier down was played at 1/3 power while trying to determine the output at clipping. Basically, I didn't get everything connected fast enough and learned to start the tone AFTER connecting the oscilloscope, and meters. (DOH!)
> 
> On the other hand, the Drum and Bass track that shut it down was played at close to full tilt just to see what would happen. I wanted to see if the amp could take a whole song of shifting bass patterns, and it couldn't do it on my subwoofer at 8 ohms without going into protect.
> 
> For everyone else, if you are happy with your almighty Ell Pee amplifiers, fine. Conversely, if you don't like them, fine. Either way, IDGAF!


In just this one thread first you say ....

Now you say ....

Can you at least stay on one side of the fence 

shouldn't it have been via my testing ... I can honestly say they are junk :laugh:


----------



## ChrisB

a$$hole said:


> In just this one thread first you say ....
> 
> Now you say ....
> 
> Can you at least stay on one side of the fence


Depends on the amplifier in question! I've been selling off the useless ones, now I am selling off the ones that I had once planned on keeping.

As for the fence, there is no fence! As for my plan and agenda, there is no plan or agenda. 



a$$hole said:


> shouldn't it have been via my testing ... I can honestly say they are junk :laugh:


Again, depends on the amplifier in question. The TIPS Modified LP 150 that I sold was the one that choked on test tones and DnB tracks. There, feel better now? It was fairly powerful because when it wasn't busy going into protect, I could squeeze 150 to 180 watts RMS out of it prior to clipping as verified with the oscilloscope.

Regardless, that is all water under the bridge and I still don't care if you like the amps or not just as I don't care what anyone says or thinks about me on a fricking internet forum! If you think I am losing sleep at night over all this mumbo jumbo, Ell Pee jerk fest BS, you are SADLY mistaken!


----------



## WRX/Z28

I think what he's trying to say is that you used to be at the forefront of the LP jerkfest. It seems that somewhere along the line, someone changed your mind, so so it would seem anyway...


----------



## ChrisB

WRX/Z28 said:


> I think what he's trying to say is that you used to be at the forefront of the LP jerkfest. It seems that somewhere along the line, someone changed your mind, so so it would seem anyway...


I woke up, smelled the coffee, and changed my mind after some facts were brought to my attention by a former Linear Power employee. Last time I checked, that was allowed in this country... Right?


----------



## bass_lover1

Oh noes, the LP naysayers!

Chris knows where I stand on this, and to be honest I'm not looking back.


----------



## WRX/Z28

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I woke up, smelled the coffee, and changed my mind after some facts were brought to my attention by a former Linear Power employee. Last time I checked, that was allowed in this country... Right?


Absolutely. I'm just curious as to what changed your mind so quickly, and so convincingly.


----------



## ChrisB

WRX/Z28 said:


> Absolutely. I'm just curious as to what changed your mind so quickly, and so convincingly.


First, I bought into the hype and BS associated with the Linear Power modifications (*click me*). Don't get me wrong, I am not dogging the price because that is right for all the labor involved but what I actually received for my $150 in terms of output wasn't worth the money spent! 

Next, I found out that my Ell Pee reducing its output at full tilt had nothing to do with clipping, protection, or any of that other fun stuff. It was the power supply sagging under load. I was told to measure the voltage on the power supply rails if I didn't believe the person who brought that to my attention. He was correct!

I paid the price for nostalgia and the memory of a high school buddy shaking everything around him with a 1752 powering four 12s in his truck. Compared to modern amplifiers produced today, the power output of even a TIPS modified Ell Pee 1752 can't come close to them. Also, all those paper specs touted by a certain person are just numbers on a sheet of paper. Regardless, I learned the hard way that memories fade over time and are better off left in the past.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Lets just revive this thread and start back talking "GOOD" things about LP, and lets keep all the negative things on another thread/forum. 

But I would like to thank Mustang, for the 5002IQ, Modified 1502IQ, Modifed 1752, and 652I he sold to me. He might not like/love LPs any more but I still do. Not to diss Mustang, but he did leave a positive feedback on LPs official website stating how great/wonderfull the modifications were. I myself still collect/use LPs rather than other brands than use ILS numbers.


----------



## bass_lover1

I have nothing bad to say about Linear Power, though I've listed my last two on eBay. That's not to say they weren't nice amps, they most certainly were and still are, however in my eyes, they're just amps.

I needed the money, so I sold off all my high dollar LPs, and replaced them with low dollar Clarion amps designed by Robert Zeff, and to be honest I'm 100% happy with these Clarions, just as I was 100% happy with my Linear Powers.

Maybe a few years down the line when I've got deeper pockets, I'll rebuild the collection again.


----------



## Oliver

The efficiency drops as the power drops 

Let's say it can be 60% efficient at full out , at 1/3 power it may only be 25% efficient.


----------



## TrickyRicky

a$$hole said:


> The efficiency drops as the power drops
> 
> Let's say it can be 60% efficient at full out , at 1/3 power it may only be 25% efficient.


When I run my Modded 2502IQ with two 12" strokers it doesnt cut off or clips. My 50amp power supply does though, so I can tell you one thing it does pull more than 50amps at slight periods. For a 250watt amplifier it sure can push two 1000watt 12" Strokers unlike other amps that state to be 1000watts or more and then blow up within 20 minutes.

Even when they werent modified they could perform w/o any problems. I know that any LP amp below the 2.2HV should be used for midbass or tweeter speakers. But I currently dont have any 8002SWs, 4.1HVs.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> When I run my Modded 2502IQ with two 12" strokers it doesnt cut off or clips. My 50amp power supply does though, so I can tell you one thing it does pull more than 50amps at slight periods. For a 250watt amplifier it sure can push two 1000watt 12" Strokers unlike other amps that state to be 1000watts or more and then blow up within 20 minutes.
> 
> Even when they werent modified they could perform w/o any problems. I know that any LP amp below the 2.2HV should be used for midbass or tweeter speakers. But I currently dont have any 8002SWs, 4.1HVs.


I wouldn't use that 1752 for anything above midbass frequencies though.  

It is a tad bit harsh on the higher frequencies.


----------



## TrickyRicky

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I wouldn't use that 1752 for anything above midbass frequencies though.
> 
> It is a tad bit harsh on the higher frequencies.


Okay, I will test it with my EV 12" which is about 100-400hz. Very loud ass subwoofer/speaker. And its only 200watts RMS so it will be a perfect match for that 1752 amp.


----------



## ChrisB

Let's bump up this blast from the past!


----------



## silverdiesel2574

I want to see the new amp,


----------



## TrickyRicky

They look like the 4--3IQ amps (same heatsinks). New boards, I think they will start the LP2150 around 600 bucks. That being a 150watt amp, if I dont have it wrong.

Ray compared that LP2150 to be almost as strong as the old 5002.


----------



## LinearPower

TrickyRicky said:


> They look like the 4--3IQ amps (same heatsinks). New boards, I think they will start the LP2150 around 600 bucks. That being a 150watt amp, if I dont have it wrong.
> 
> Ray compared that LP2150 to be almost as strong as the old 5002.


150 watts x 2 RMS @ 12 volts input @ 33 amps of current.
218 watts x 2 RMS @ 14.4 volts

retail price has NOT been established yet, but 700-850 would be a ballpark range. 

more info on our forum @ caraudio-forum.com


----------



## LinearPower

silverdiesel2574 said:


> I want to see the new amp,


Internal and external pictures are on caraudio-forum.com, as well as, it can be seen at every industry show and contest we attend. We post all events we will be attending on a thread at teh website also. We have at least one on hand to show internally and externally, and one in the demo vehicle playing. Several contest vehicles had the amps in their cars all winter, but have removed them for the contests, since they are NOT currently production amps and illegal to use in contests not being production amps as of yet.


----------



## Mike_Dee

LinearPower said:


> Internal and external pictures are on caraudio-forum.com, as well as, it can be seen at every industry show and contest we attend. We post all events we will be attending on a thread at teh website also. We have at least one on hand to show internally and externally, and one in the demo vehicle playing. Several contest vehicles had the amps in their cars all winter, but have removed them for the contests, since they are NOT currently production amps and illegal to use in contests not being production amps as of yet.


Are those WIMA caps on your new amp?


----------



## LinearPower

Mike_Dee said:


> Are those WIMA caps on your new amp?


Yes, those are WIMA by-pass caps and high grade electrolytics, other specs are listed about the amp, but everything is high grade parts and extreme SQ topology.


----------



## manina

LinearPower said:


> Yes, those are WIMA by-pass caps and high grade electrolytics, other specs are listed about the amp, but everything is high grade parts and extreme SQ topology.


I'm going to get one for sure I have not enough LPs at home. 

Ray, I'm sorting the custom clearance for the 2202S mod Getting something out of Italy is just crazy:mean:


----------



## TrickyRicky

I just got my hands on a Q50.


----------



## Cablguy184

WOW !!! This was a LONG thread to read !!!

Hopefully I will be pulling my Linear 2.2hv and 5002iq out soon ... 
For some NEW Linear Power amps !!! 

and no !!! Before anyone ask, my 2.2 and 5002 will NOT be for sale ... 

I'm going to need a new alternator to power these bad boys ... so Please go over to SMD and vote for me System of the Month so I can win one !!! 
SMD FORUMS - SYSTEM OF THE MONTH Sponsored by MECHMAN Alternator! Win a High Output Alternator! - SMD Forum
Thanks, Randal ...


----------



## DragonSworn

Got to see & listen to the prototype LP2150 this weekend. The best part was speaking with Ray at length about where they went with the design & why. I love the small footprint & how it nails the things Ray has always lauded as the best part of LP designs (HQ devices capable of far in excess of the circuit design requirements + emphasis on voltage not current.) The new LP amps are a spec whore’s wet dream & I will change my plans for the supra to make use of the added firepower. The Blues speakers were impressive too & I enjoyed meeting Mike Flanagan listening in his Trail blazer.

I wish them much success because they aren’t relying on LP’s good reputation to move product. Instead they are improving the design & should beat the old school amps in the important areas while keeping manufacturing in the US.

Wade Boatman
Feed your faith & your fears will starve to death


----------



## TrickyRicky

When I listen to the Blues 6.5 component sets I was blown away. They actually produce notes that many only believe a 10 or 12 can. Not only that, they sounded so clean when they were loud, no harsh noises or tweeters. I just wish I could afford a set or two.

I got a 1502IQ powering a cheapy Pioneer component 6.5 set, but they sound really good (no where near the blues set, lol). I had an AudioArt 70.2X before it, and it just wasn't enough power for the set.


----------



## snoopysnooper

bringin this thread back to life. i just recelntly became OBSESSED with linear power. i am currently running 2 2202s and blues 6.5" components


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## ChrisB

Wow, I just realized that this thread was bumped back up. Talk about a different time in my life when all this nonsense was going on.

With that said, it's a free country, so run what you want to run. Life is too short to be on one's death bed saying "I wish (fill in the rest!)" I'd rather be on my death bed with a smile saying to myself that I did what I wanted when I wanted, no matter how right, or wrong, I was at the time.


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