# Audio Wave - the next generation of super amps?



## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

Grant, the owner of audiowave contacted me, looking for a master distributor of their products in the US.
The web site is lacking, but the info he sent me looks very impressive.
Retail price is aroudn $5000 for their cheapest amp..

Anyone heard of this company?

http://audiowaveltd.com/index.html

ANT


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

Never heard of them. They look Sinfoni-esqe minus the flames!


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

Good to see for that much they remove the mounting feet for you.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

I just sent them an email.....I got something back about the head guy wasn't available and at the London Hi Fi show.... British maybe...?


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

do they really NEED to be gold plated? i'm sure that drives up the cost quite a bit, and for what?


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## Robdoggz (Sep 16, 2007)

And the flames must lower distortion too wtf i wouldn't pay that much for any amp no amp imo is worth $5k you wont hear the difference from a $500 amp in the car.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice looking, but the gold is a turn off for me. Un-needed bling IMO.


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

beautiful amps. i like that for some of the DIY people, they show what it can do at 8 ohms. dont see that much. not worth 5k though


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

$5K? Sorry, can't see much of a market for that. Unless your dealing alot with celebs. and uber-rich. Even then, who knows. Unheard of in the States, really pricey, hope they don't plan on being a high volume, much less medium volume, company. What are their promtional plans for the product to be introduced in the states? BTW, the company is british in origin.


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## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

too bad they don't have black, black amps are better


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## Robdoggz (Sep 16, 2007)

fredridge said:


> too bad they don't have black, because once you go black you don't go back


Fixed hehe  Sorry i had too.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

They could do black gold, but oil isn't much cheaper these days.

Can't say they do anythin for me, you can get more appealing cosmetics and better power out of other amps for considerably less money.


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Agree with the others that they are very "Sinfoni looking". For that price point they should have used a more original design. I guess adding the cooling fan drove the manufacturing costs through the roof. I'm sure they are nice amps, but that is Sinfoni Desiderio pricing, which is an amp I would actually own.

What's up with rating the amps @ 14.4 volts??


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

What _*IF*_ they sounded as good if not better than the Desiderio?


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Five grand minimum for an ugly, gaudy commodity part? Are you ****ing kidding us?


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## Calum (Aug 13, 2008)

MACS said:


> What's up with rating the amps @ 14.4 volts??


?? Why wouldn't you rate an amp at 14.4, that's the voltage that most cars run at?

And yeah, $5K... That just leaves me speachless. I mean, what could an amp do/be to possible warrant that much money?


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

CAMSHAFT said:


> What _*IF*_ they sounded as good if not better than the Desiderio?


If it "sounded as good" isn't the issue I have with the Audio Wave amps. I'm pretty confident that they sound as good as anything offered by other companies. They better for that price.

Why I would pick the Sinfoni Desiderio is that it is rated at 325x2 @ 4 ohms, 605x2 @ 2 ohms, 1210x1 @ 4 ohms, 2100x1 @ 2 ohms all specs at *12 volts*(paying attention Calum??) Compare that to the 14.4 rated Audio Wave's and I think you'll see my point. Granted, the Sinfoni probably would cost more, but if I'm a person that can blow $5000.00 on a car amp I can just as easily afford the Sinfoni. 

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Calum said:


> ?? Why wouldn't you rate an amp at 14.4, that's the voltage that most cars run at?
> 
> And yeah, $5K... That just leaves me speachless. I mean, what could an amp do/be to possible warrant that much money?


So you're telling me that your car puts out a constant 14.4 volts all the time with your A/C, lights, and other accessories on?

Most high end amp manufacturers rate their amps at 12 volts and *maybe* will throw in the 14.4 specs just for conversation.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

I found this... 
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=443&Itemid=88

I have also been in contact with Grant, one of the heads over there! It looks like this guy has pedigree in building amps. In an email from him he said "I was the technical/production manager at Genesis and left to start my own company."

SO far everything with this amp company seems promising. And yes this amp is not for 90% of the people on this website. This amp is for the ballers on this website


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## veloze (Jul 2, 2007)

OMG, $5K for a ghetto looking amp!  I almost pissed on my pants.  Ant, this is totally insane. hehehe


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## Calum (Aug 13, 2008)

MACS said:


> If it "sounded as good" isn't the issue I have with the Audio Wave amps. I'm pretty confident that they sound as good as anything offered by other companies. They better for that price.
> 
> Why I would pick the Sinfoni Desiderio is that it is rated at 325x2 @ 4 ohms, 605x2 @ 2 ohms, 1210x1 @ 4 ohms, 2100x1 @ 2 ohms all specs at *12 volts*(paying attention Calum??) Compare that to the 14.4 rated Audio Wave's and I think you'll see my point. Granted, the Sinfoni probably would cost more, but if I'm a person that can blow $5000.00 on a car amp I can just as easily afford the Sinfoni.
> 
> ...




To your first question, no of course not. I realize the limitations of rating an amp at 14.4 volts, but it's no less realistic than rating at 12 volts. Amplifier wattage ratings are very easy to misconstrue, it would be really nice if a standard, any standard, were followed by all companies. 14.4 is the part of the CEA 2006 standard. I know not every amp company follows those standards but it would be nice if they did. 

Here's an example of why rating an amp at 12 volts is unrealistic, most cars very rarely see voltages that low.


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Calum said:


> To your first question, no of course not. I realize the limitations of rating an amp at 14.4 volts, but it's no less realistic than rating at 12 volts. Amplifier wattage ratings are very easy to misconstrue, it would be really nice if a standard, any standard, were followed by all companies. 14.4 is the part of the CEA 2006 standard. I know not every amp company follows those standards but it would be nice if they did.
> 
> Here's an example of why rating an amp at 12 volts is unrealistic, most cars very rarely see voltages that low.


So it is better for an amp company to show only the 14.4 specs? Especially a $5000.00 MSRP amp company. 

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather know the more realistic 12 to 13.8 volt specs. If the amp has a regulated power supply and makes the same watts from 12 to 14.4 volts then they should advertise it as such.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> Five grand minimum for an ugly, gaudy commodity part? Are you ****ing kidding us?


Thats the first word that popped into my brain when I heard car...audio...amp.... $5K..._*.COMMODITY*_.

BE real.....I could get a used Krell for less than $5K.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

Ant, we urgently need a group buy on those bad boys. Have him sign up as a vendor, so we can taste this fruit of the eden garden.


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## Calum (Aug 13, 2008)

MACS said:


> So it is better for an amp company to show only the 14.4 specs? Especially a $5000.00 MSRP amp company.
> 
> Maybe it is just me, but I would rather know the more realistic 12 to 13.8 volt specs. If the amp has a regulated power supply and makes the same watts from 12 to 14.4 volts then they should advertise it as such.


Cool man, enjoy your system.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

yermolovd said:


> Ant, we urgently need a group buy on those bad boys. Have him sign up as a vendor, so we can taste this fruit of the eden garden.


 
Well... Since you asked....


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## osiris (Mar 21, 2008)

Other amps in this price range have spectacular build quality and component selection,desirable aesthetics,and sound beyond reproach. Other than the higly subjective aesthetics,can you talk about the other aforementioned qualities "super amps" should posses? Silver wire?Mundorf caps?Lifetime warranty?


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

GlasSman said:


> Thats the first word that popped into my brain when I heard car...audio...amp.... $5K..._*.COMMODITY*_.


Amps are interchangeable commodity parts. Price has nothing to do with whether something is unique and worth discussing or just a faceless cog.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

Calum said:


> To your first question, no of course not. I realize the limitations of rating an amp at 14.4 volts, but it's no less realistic than rating at 12 volts. Amplifier wattage ratings are very easy to misconstrue, it would be really nice if a standard, any standard, were followed by all companies. 14.4 is the part of the CEA 2006 standard. I know not every amp company follows those standards but it would be nice if they did.
> 
> Here's an example of why rating an amp at 12 volts is unrealistic, most cars very rarely see voltages that low.



Wouldn't you agree that 12.75 is a whole lot closer to 12 than it is to 14.4?
Every car out there should be able to make a sustained 12 volts unless under huge loads. Not many cars will see 14.4 except under exceptional circumstances.

I'd rather see amps rated for 12 volts because it's more applicable.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

^ that engine bay looks mighty familiar.  ...gotta be 04-05 or newer since it's throttle by wire.

Hmm. They're tailoring to a very small market. It's definitely a "looks" game. I'm sure they can afford a good design and internals too, but a lot of what you're paying for is looks. Some folks will pay for that, others won't. What's super about them? I do agree they _appear_ to go to rather considerable lengths towards of the visual aspect of the amps. Beyond that, how special are they really? What can possibly justify the $5k plus price tags, besides their own egos?

Why only mono amps? There just isn't much benefit from only 100Hz on down. At least the amps are full range, but would anyone buy 3 to 7 individual Audiowave amps at $5k a pop to simply power their system?

If I wanted to spend a good chunk of money, I'll just buy Zed. I paid almost nothing for my power, about 5-6w rms per dollar. Think I am getting unclean sound? Think I could possibly be compelled to spend 0.04w rms per dollar? That's 125 *times* the amount I spend for my wattage. Why would I pay that? How could anyone possibly justify paying that, $25 per watt? Power is so absolutely cheap to get.

As for listing at 14.4v, pretty much every manufacturer does this. You pretty much can't gripe about that for Audiowave unless you equally gripe about 99% of the amp manufacturers out there. If it's not listed, it's most likely 14.4v. If you want to scale down to 12v, go for it. Your 75w amp can output 63w when the car's off. Happy?


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## Calum (Aug 13, 2008)

dogstar said:


> Wouldn't you agree that 12.75 is a whole lot closer to 12 than it is to 14.4?
> Every car out there should be able to make a sustained 12 volts unless under huge loads. Not many cars will see 14.4 except under exceptional circumstances.
> 
> I'd rather see amps rated for 12 volts because it's more applicable.


That was about 5 hours after the car had last ran. That was straight battery. Most cars will only see 12.0 volts in the charging system when the engine is being started. And if your car was running at 12 volts, that would mean the alternator is dead and the battery is almost completely discharged. 

Now I know that still doesn't make 14.4 volts the best voltage to rate amps at. All I'm saying is it's not less accurate than rating at 12 volts. 13.8, would be a great average, as most stock charging systems will be down to that when a sizable amp is run to peak. But I'd be happy if any voltage was used, as long as all companies used that same voltage.


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## Calum (Aug 13, 2008)

mvw2 said:


> ^ that engine bay looks mighty familiar.  ...gotta be 04-05 or newer since it's throttle by wire.


08 2.5i  Everybody ****s on them but I really like it, it could use a rear sway bar and some stiffer side wall tires but that'll come next spring.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Well, they sort of ignored the "sport" heritage of the car. It's nothing bushings, tires, and some minor suspension changes can't get you, but you sort of have to toss another $2k at the car post purchase to get it to where it probably should be stock. At least they wised up with the '09 WRX and revamped the thing favorably. Hopefull the STI get worked on in '10 and gets turned into the monster it always should have been.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

My bud is a subie sales guy and when I considered them he said to wait till 09 before buying one or I'd hate it, but he knows what I was looking for.

Glad to hear you like yours Calum, I honestly do like the styling of the sedan, but don't much care for the wagon.


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## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*Could be promising. Would put them up on SSA, but would not see one selling until they did some marketing. 

*


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## Locke (May 29, 2007)

5000 grand is much better spent on speakers, than a gaudy no name amp, maybe they should try to establish themselves with an entry level line


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

flaming IMO


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Not only is it disgustingly expensive, but much more so than whats disgustingly expensive out there for caraudio as is.

Say I do have $5k, and i have a fancy for such nonsense. I'd be hard pressed to pass up on a full Dynaudio Esostar or Supremo set with an ala carte custom TRU 8ch Billet to power it all...likely even squeeze processing into that budget....or should I up the ante and put $5k sinfoni-looking rip off mono block's on each end? 

The sad thing is there are people out there out of mere curiosity or disrespect for money that would spend as much on 1 or 2 channels of amplification. Just to say so..


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## FJF (Jul 5, 2007)

Much of the extreme high-end, at least in home audio, isn't geared toward the North American market. A lot of it is sold in the Asia, Middle East, etc, where prestige and personal well-being is culturally equated with items of high monetary value, not unlike the featured swag in a 50 Cent video. This product may be heading overseas, as well.


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## Locke (May 29, 2007)

Bon voyage


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

This isn't a no name amp company. If you read my post, this guy comes from the Genesis build house. I have a feeling this stuff sounds no hold barred excellent.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

But it's still $5k...at the cheapest. 

At what point do you sit back and laugh at the ridiculousness?


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

When it sounds awesome... the only laughing is the laughter of joy.......


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

And this awesomeness can't be had for, oh, $200?


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## Locke (May 29, 2007)

CAMSHAFT said:


> This isn't a no name amp company. If you read my post, this guy comes from the Genesis build house. I have a feeling this stuff sounds no hold barred excellent.


he may have come from genesis, but they earned thier reputation, I am sure they are great amps, but if I am going to spend 5000 grand on an amp it will be with a established company.


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## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

if I am going to spend 5 grand on an amp, I better be able to drop it in my engine bay and have it convert my car into a hybrid AND power my whole audio system


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

CAMSHAFT said:


> This isn't a no name amp company. If you read my post, this guy comes from the Genesis build house. I have a feeling this stuff sounds no hold barred excellent.





mvw2 said:


> And this awesomeness can't be had for, oh, $200?



So buy a Genesis.


As much as I've tried to be an amp snob, I can't tell the difference between my friend's Alpine MRV-F900 and his new Zapco Ref 1000.4.
It was as double blind testing as possible, he swapped the amps overnight (I had no idea he even had a Zapco, let alone the swap) We sat in the car listening to music and eating lunch yesterday, then we sat in the eating lunch and listening to music today and when he asked me whether I though it sounded different I had to say I couldn't tell.

Maaaaybe it's cause neither of them is an ultra dollar amp like these, but I have to imagine the F900 is "pretty good" to justify the cost and I've heard enough good reviews of the Zapcos to know they're "good" amps....

How good does it have to be for there to be an audible difference from a $1000 amp??


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## tomtomjr (Apr 24, 2008)

dogstar said:


> So buy a Genesis.
> 
> 
> As much as I've tried to be an amp snob, I can't tell the difference between my friend's Alpine MRV-F900 and his new Zapco Ref 1000.4.
> ...


I have listened to a few thousand amps over the years. (did repair work on amps for a long time) . Here are 3 that you can tell an SQ difference
immediately over your average amp.
McIntosh (only owned 1, MC4000m) , very clean sounding on the high end. Bass was not there even after I added EQ's. But for the high end, super...
Marantz 750 series. Just on a bench test, it has a warm tone (reminds me of a tube amp, but it has no tube). Great for high end. Sounds different than any other amp I have tried over the years.
Zapco 151 (nothing like the Zapco 1000.4 you mentioned) Just super clean. Takes lots of gain from several processors, and just won't distort. Push it till you pop a fuse. Will pick up 5hz, and 10hz you can see the sub try to jump out of the box. 
Listen to some of these. You can hear a difference. They are all older, but you can get them for way under $5k. Also, I think all 3 amps are handmade. Not sure on the McIntosh, but the Marantz and Zapco are. Save your money, and find some older well made amps. Or buy a new TRU. Never tried a TRU, but it is one of the few amps my collector buddies really like. They sure rant and rave about them. Sure beats $5k.


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## Adam Rayner (Sep 22, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I put blood into a majure participation as my first post and it seems to have been evaporated, so before chipping in, I'm just going to post this to see if your 'lightly moderated' site will let me take part...









Well, it did, so here goes, without multi-quoting some of you.....

You are absolutely correct in whom the product is aimed at.

The Money is on improbable levels of engineering and the use of cost-no-object components and the sheer scale of the man hours of craftsmanship in each one. My taste would be to order mine in Nickel plated cooling rods and brushed surgical steel casing. If you ain't fifty cent it's not an issue. This stuff is ALL bespoke. (That means they make them *all *to order, like Maybach)

I heard this at the HiFi show and the system was very high end. I have heard the Audi A4 of a two-year all-Europe champion from Finland at CES and the best ODR (Pioneer's $44,000 system used by SQ competitors over here.) of the current Euro champion who is a Brit.

Grant's car was not as well imaged as the winner's cars - the install is basic craftsmanship - but the sound was open, airy, sweet and you could feel the space around the recordings. It had incredible silence in gaps and vast uncompressed dynamics. 

It was as good as the Sinfoni I heard and the Audison Theta. Just beautiful.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

CAMSHAFT said:


> When it sounds awesome... the only laughing is the laughter of joy.......


I am sure the deep pocket folks that like to be different will be interested.....
However, for car audio 99.5% of the US enthusiast out there with $5K to spend on amps would choose $5K of Zapco or Genesis or something for awesome sound. Why buy one awesome sounding amp for $5K when you can get two or three or four?


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

Adam Rayner said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I put blood into a majure participation as my first post and it seems to have been evaporated, so before chipping in, I'm just going to post this to see if your 'lightly moderated' site will let me take part...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight Adam!


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## dvflyer (May 11, 2007)

Paging Richard Clark......


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Locke said:


> he may have come from genesis, but they earned thier reputation, I am sure they are great amps, but if I am going to spend *5000 grand on an amp* it will be with a established company.


5000 grand is ALOT more than their asking.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

dvflyer said:


> Paging Richard Clark......


**** Richard Clark


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Adam Rayner said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I put blood into a majure participation as my first post and it seems to have been evaporated, so before chipping in, I'm just going to post this to see if your 'lightly moderated' site will let me take part...
> 
> ...


lol.

gotta get me some of that 'incredible silence'

 cost no object


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## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

that is probably Euros or more likely Pesos



6spdcoupe said:


> 5000 grand is ALOT more than their asking.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> Amps are interchangeable commodity parts. Price has nothing to do with whether something is unique and worth discussing or just a faceless cog.


I'm _*agreeing*_ with you.

An amp board assembled overseas....and screwed to a heatsink probably made overseas....doesn't merit a $5k price tag.

So they might do the specialty finished in house...maybe not.

I bet most of the cost is due to the custom finishes.

My closet full of SS amps didn't cost me $5K.

And in this economy why the hell would someone even think that a $5K car amplifier is a good idea?


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## Locke (May 29, 2007)

6spdcoupe said:


> 5000 grand is ALOT more than their asking.


yea and that was for an entry level amp


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

Calum said:


> I mean, what could an amp do/be to possible warrant that much money?


Have a self lubing glory hole?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Locke said:


> yea and that was for an entry level amp


THAT is still ALOT more than a few of their highest priced ones.


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## Pantani (Jul 17, 2008)

Locke said:


> 5000 grand is much better spent on speakers, than a gaudy no name amp, maybe they should try to establish themselves with an entry level line


Just how much is 5000 grand? 5,000,000?


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## Locke (May 29, 2007)

Pantani said:


> Just how much is 5000 grand? 5,000,000?


well if u really don't it's 5 thousand


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Dude. 5000 = 5 grand.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

lol nice catch Don!


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## Adam Rayner (Sep 22, 2008)

60ndown said:


> lol.
> 
> gotta get me some of that 'incredible silence'
> 
> cost no object


It's a Signal to Ratio thang, you can hear the space a vocal was recorded in, stuff like the air being pushed around by the board of an acoustic guitar. It's all mad-end quality and the entire thing is made under the direction of one bloke, like Aston Martin cars. This is going to be bought by people who read HiFi Critic. The most up-in-the-clouds hifi mag in the world, written by Martin Colloms and his cohorts. No advertising - you pay $18 and issue or $110 for a year - a bit like an august journal of some scientific discipline. Again, the finish is done to sell to those described above so cogently, who value the material display as well as the implied performance. 

Ironically, the very sexiest 'finish' would be a plexiglas cover with a fine copper mesh Faraday cage lining......

It's really a bespoke thing - a concept so foreign that Kanye is still singing about it as a Brit joke along with the term WAGS and a reference to a soft drink as iconic for English people as Gatorade is for you, called Ribena, with this South London Chick called Estelle - she likes American Boys.

That means that you have to order them. The US Market is so much more want-it-this-minute that some dealers in California specify a Maybach with what they reckon ballers will dig and then put it in the showroom and people actually walk in and buy them! In Europe, you would choose it down to the last bit of burr walnut.

I don't know about the boards' source and creation, that's commercially sensitive stuff but I know Grant's the circuit designer and it is top level, with each board bearing their name as part of the copper, so it isn't off any shelf. The sections are on different boards and the connections are made from billet.

Grant was so pleased with certain bits inside, he wanted to patent them.

Right, so mine's now got Nickel plated cooling rods and a clear top, with a circular badge panel instead of a rectangular one and I'll have mine called "FatBloke Special"

I've known Genesis' designer Gordon Taylor as an old mate for fifteen years now. He is a genius. His favourite entertainment is tell you gross-out humour jokes, not simply because they amuse him, but to find out the point where you go "Haha...ha. er... urrgh!" It's one of those things that seems to go with the intellect. I tried to cope and he just kept upping the ante until I went green.

I use a Stereo 100 amp in my test rig on my site, on a Daiwa 30A lab PSU with esoteric Audio speaker wire on a set of B&W LM1 monitors. Great little head unit testing rig.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

BeatsDownLow said:


> **** Richard Clark


Please keep your homoerotic fantasies to yourself.



Adam Rayner said:


> It's a Signal to Ratio thang, you can hear the space a vocal was recorded in, stuff like the air being pushed around by the board of an acoustic guitar. It's all mad-end quality and the entire thing is made under the direction of one bloke, like Aston Martin cars. This is going to be bought by people who read HiFi Critic. The most up-in-the-clouds hifi mag in the world, written by Martin Colloms and his cohorts. No advertising - you pay $18 and issue or $110 for a year - a bit like an august journal of some scientific discipline. Again, the finish is done to sell to those described above so cogently, who value the material display as well as the implied performance.


That's really quite silly. You talk as if you're this thing is a handcrafted bauble to the sort of bloke who nips over to the Ritz for afternoon tea in his Bristol after an appointment with Patrick or Lee at Huntsman (that's "No. 1 Savile Row," for people who like to throw around the word "bespoke" without really getting the term; Patrick is the Head Cutter and Lee is an excellent Senior Cutter) to fix some loose ends on a suit he commissioned twenty years ago... and yet the damn thing has flames painted on it. Trying for Paul Smith style Cool Brittania irony? Well, to channel the late Sen. Lloyd Bentsen ca. the 1988 Vice Presidential debates, I know Sir Paul Smith, and no amp maker is Paul.



Adam Rayner said:


> It's really a bespoke thing - a concept so foreign


"Bespoke" overpriced commodity parts like audio amplifiers are certainly a foreign thing to those of us who actually do commission quite a lot of stuff bespoke, that's for sure. Believe it or not, one shouldn't commission his electric window motors bespoke, either, for a bespoke one will have no advantage whatsoever over a mass produced one, just as a bespoke car audio amplifier will have no advantage whatsoever over a mass produced one.

And Kanye doesn't know much about bespoke, that is true. He seems to wear mostly Ralph Lauren Purple Label or RL Black Label tailored clothes, which shows good taste as RLPL is generally well-made and well-priced for the quality. (I am less impressed with RLBL, though they have improved the line since it debuted; the jackets are currently fully-canvassed, whereas initially they were gluejobs. And to be fair it is cheaper than RLPL. At those prices corners have to be cut.) But his shoes are usually of considerably lesser grade than the Edward Green-made RLPL's, unfortunately.



Adam Rayner said:


> I use a Stereo 100 amp in my test rig on my site, on a Daiwa 30A lab PSU with esoteric Audio speaker wire on a set of B&W LM1 monitors. Great little head unit testing rig.


Maybe you should try spending money on some real speakers instead of blowing it all on overpriced commodities and shortchanging your ears where it counts.


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## Pantani (Jul 17, 2008)

Locke said:


> well if u really don't it's 5 thousand


I think your missing the sarcasm. 

5 grand = 5,000
5,000 grand = 5,000 x 1,000 = 5,000,000



6spdcoupe said:


> THAT is still ALOT more than a few of their highest priced ones.


I think some people are getting it though.


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## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> Please keep your homoerotic fantasies to yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I laughed my ass off on this one. Dude you're a riot


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## Locke (May 29, 2007)

Pantani said:


> I think your missing the sarcasm.
> 
> 5 grand = 5,000
> 5,000 grand = 5,000 x 1,000 = 5,000,000
> ...


Yea I get it I f up 5 grand how is that


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Adam Rayner said:


> It's a Signal to Ratio thang, you can hear the space a vocal was recorded in, stuff like the air being pushed around by the board of an acoustic guitar.


maybe if parked in outer space, 

but in a moving vehicle?

its a mobile amp right?


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## Adam Rayner (Sep 22, 2008)

I was mobile electronics editor of Max Power for four years and Fast Car for seven. I am a speaker reviewer with Home Cinema Choice magazine you can Google my ass Adam Rayner, not the actor or the insurance salesman from Toronto, but a fifteen year time –served respected reviewer who is a bit vexed your so-called light moderation has deleted me twice. Don’t worry, I’ll not hang around. My forum takes my time. 
Well done for the breath-taking pomposity. I’m impressed.
))


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## ccrobbins (Aug 19, 2006)

Deleted?


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Adam Rayner said:


> I was mobile electronics editor of Max Power for four years and Fast Car for seven. I am a speaker reviewer with Home Cinema Choice magazine you can Google my ass Adam Rayner, not the actor or the insurance salesman from Toronto, but a fifteen year time –served respected reviewer who is a bit vexed your so-called light moderation has deleted me twice. Don’t worry, I’ll not hang around. My forum takes my time.
> Well done for the breath-taking pomposity. I’m impressed.
> ))


No ones bashing your credentials Adam......just the merits and worth of an amp thats priced higher than many full setups.

And if the intention of this company was truely to cater soley to the rich that are buying a $150,000+ vehicle thats fine....

But we're* STILL* going to chime in with our opinion. 

Celebrities that pull in millions every month aren't actually grounded in reality.....

....but they have money to spend and *SOMEONE *has to profit....nothing wrong with that.

But being a *CAR AUDIO* amplifier...did you really think we'd keep our traps shut?


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Adam Rayner said:


> I was mobile electronics editor of Max Power for four years and Fast Car for seven. I am a speaker reviewer with Home Cinema Choice magazine you can Google my ass Adam Rayner, not the actor or the insurance salesman from Toronto, but a fifteen year time –served respected reviewer who is a bit vexed your so-called light moderation has deleted me twice. Don’t worry, I’ll not hang around. My forum takes my time.


What makes you think being a reviewer entitles you to more respect? If one of those "respected" reviewers such as Harry Pearson, Jonathan Scull, Robert Harley, or Jonathan Valin came on here and started spewing their idiot ******** about amps or wires or hockey pucks or whatever, they'd get the reception they deserve...

The only "professional" audio reviewers worth a damn are those who consistently provide the consumer with excellent measured data.


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## Sassmastersq (Jan 12, 2007)

did anyone else notice that the lowpass crossover uses modules a-la 1990's PG and audiocontrol? join the 21st century if you want to sell for 5k


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> Please keep your homoerotic fantasies to yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The man knows his clothing! rather impressive to pick up on that. So what's in your closet?! Also, I realy don't think they are building for the masses. Is it worth $5k? probably not, but when you make over $100k a MONTH, then its nothing. It's all relative.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Adam Rayner said:


> Well done for the breath-taking pomposity. I’m impressed.
> ))


I guess you noticed, but I certainly wouldn't mention the word "bespoke," or anything about expensive amplifiers, if you're not seeking a dose of pomposity from DS-21. And you used them both in the same sentence, bwahaha.



DS-21 said:


> and yet the damn thing has flames painted on it.


Your wardrobe doesn't impress me unless you have at least one suit with flames embroidered on it.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

slvrtsunami said:


> The man knows his clothing! rather impressive to pick up on that. So what's in your closet?!


Lotsa stuff! 

My most recent purchases were a pair of KMW 1950 raw jeans, two Loro Piana shirts (one spread collar, one buttondown collar), a pair of John Lobb William double monkstraps in brown suede, three RLPL polo shirts (the last ones in the Atlanta store in my size without the ****ing logo on the chest), a ribbed purple RLPL cashmere sweater, and a pair of special-order Alden Norwegian-toe derbies in cigar shell cordovan (This style, but Cigar rather than No. 8 or black shell, like the boots below.)












slvrtsunami said:


> Is it worth $5k? probably not, but when you make over $100k a MONTH, then its nothing. It's all relative.


People who make money appreciate value, too.



capnxtreme said:


> Your wardrobe doesn't impress me unless you have at least one suit with flames embroidered on it.


Sorry, dude. I like women.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

Nice shoes DS!


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

yermolovd said:


> Nice shoes DS!


Cheers.

The suede Lobbs were an NM Last Call sale impulse buy- I actually don't own a pair of the JL William in the iconic buffalo (pebblegrain) calf, and if I were paying close to full freight that's the direction I go - but I actually ordered those Aldens like seven months ago. For some reason it takes Alden _forever_ to get their hands on Cigar (or Whiskey) shell cordovan. Doesn't make any sense to me, considering they are Horween's biggest buyer and C&J, Vass, and Carmina never seem to have delays with Cigar vs. No. 8. (Horween is the Chicago tannery that supplies basically all of the better shoe companies with their shells.)

I'm glad I didn't wear either of those shoes today, though, because after the thrashing that those ******** are giving Georgia I'd likely think them cursed.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

so if someone were to put these magical amps up against other nice amps at a fraction of the cost would there be a difference in a blind test? i'd like to see heavy hitters in the sq world like genesis, audison, mcintosh, jbl, and zapco put up against these hideous amps in an independent study.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> so if someone were to put these magical amps up against other nice amps at a fraction of the cost would there be a difference in a blind test? i'd like to see heavy hitters in the sq world like genesis, audison, mcintosh, jbl, and zapco put up against these hideous amps in an independent study.


and im sure the 'bikespoke' shoes work much better then 'regular' shoes.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> so if someone were to put these magical amps up against other nice amps at a fraction of the cost would there be a difference in a blind test? i'd like to see heavy hitters in the sq world like genesis, audison, mcintosh, jbl, and zapco put up against these hideous amps in an independent study.


That has happened many a time, with the obvious result: amps are just commodity parts, and time spent kvetching about them is just time wasted.



60ndown said:


> and im sure the 'bikespoke' shoes work much better then 'regular' shoes.


Actually, yes. A last custom made for one's foot is far more comfortable than a generic one made to fit many. Not quite sure where that came up, though, because neither shoes I mentioned were bespoke shoes. One pair was just on sale at Neiman's, and the other was a stock last ordered in a different color. I guarantee you that any non-colorblind person can tell the difference between Cigar (dark brown) and No. 8 (purple-burgundy, ages to a beautiful black cherry color) shell cordovan, though. And anyone with functioning fingertips can tell the difference between shell and calfskin...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> The suede Lobbs were an NM Last Call sale impulse buy


Damnit! You found Lobbs at Last Call! WTF We get nothing down here. I've never seen a single Lobb here. The Saks outlet outside Philly had some killer items from Bergdorfs though.

Paul Smith is one of my favorites; never had a Boateng though. We Yanks still do it best. You can't say bespoke and not mention Bijan. Hmm, actually I guess that means Iranians make the best suits in the world. Damn Shah!



capnxtreme said:


> Your wardrobe doesn't impress me unless you have at least one suit with flames embroidered on it.


You'd be impressed with mine.  I've got some crazy ****!

Back to the arrogant poster, we Yanks know all about bespoke amps also. There are several people on here with bespoke Tru Technology amps and Linear Power amps--and they are all under $2k.



Adam Rayner said:


> It's a Signal to Ratio thang, you can hear the space a vocal was recorded in, stuff like the air being pushed around by the board of an acoustic guitar.


Are you kidding or what? Yes, S/N ratio is a critical component of an SQ amp, but you don't need to pay $5k to get a good S/N ratio. My modded LP has a better S/N ratio than any Audio Wave and some of them have a 115dB S/N ratio. My Soundstream could also probably rival them for S/N. Hell, any amp over $300 could rival them for S/N.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

Mooble said:


> Are you kidding or what? Yes, S/N ratio is a critical component of an SQ amp, but you don't need to pay $5k to get a good S/N ratio. My modded LP has a better S/N ratio than any Audio Wave and some of them have a 115dB S/N ratio. My Soundstream could also probably rival them for S/N. Hell, any amp over $300 could rival them for S/N.


Blah, all your Sounstream and LP amps had their S/N ratio measured by a human being, while for 5k I bet they have unicorns take measurements, while dwarfs are blowing them. this way you can feel special about your amp.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

DS-21 said:


> Lotsa stuff!
> 
> My most recent purchases were a pair of KMW 1950 raw jeans, two Loro Piana shirts (one spread collar, one buttondown collar), a pair of John Lobb William double monkstraps in brown suede, three RLPL polo shirts (the last ones in the Atlanta store in my size without the ****ing logo on the chest), a ribbed purple RLPL cashmere sweater, and a pair of special-order Alden Norwegian-toe derbies in cigar shell cordovan (This style, but Cigar rather than No. 8 or black shell, like the boots below.)
> 
> ...


Lol what's going on in here... lobbs, loro piana, st. andrews, edward green? If you can afford to be sporting these, what's $5k for an amp?  You can't really tell me that Lobb is that much better constructed than Alden or Allen Edmonds, or that RLPL is a better deal than Corneliani on sale at nordstrom rack?? You'd be better off spending that money on a gym membership and wearing some vintage 501's and a wife beater 

A few of my shoes from an old pic I found on my photobucket.. c&j nubuck chukkas, grenson MP, tricker's adelaide... a little funny looking, my first attempt at antiquing and dyeing... still much better than the original boring british tan. Much like working with fiberglass you'll easily lose 5 yrs of your life breathing the fumes... not recommended.










current watch collection. bp leman grande date, iwc port 7 day, vc overseas.










recent stuff that didn't make the cut-

























Now we're really off topic!


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Forgot the family photo.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Nice IWC collection. No Vacheron Constantin?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Actually, yes. A last custom made for one's foot is far more comfortable than a generic one made to fit many.


you have your 'undies' custom fit too?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

60ndown said:


> you have your 'undies' custom fit too?


Don't knock the Lobbs. They are the finest fitting dress shoes you can buy, the bespoke ones anyway. Many people have different sized feet. It's not at all unusual to have a 1/2 size difference in them. Why by shoes that are made for a generic model foot? I wish I could afford bespoke Lobbs, but I don't have $4k lying around for shoes.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Mooble said:


> Damnit! You found Lobbs at Last Call! WTF We get nothing down here. I've never seen a single Lobb here. The Saks outlet outside Philly had some killer items from Bergdorfs though.


Not at an NM Last Call store, but during the biannual NM Last Call sale. The only shoes I've ever bought at an NMLC store, that I can remember, are those Varvatos laceless Chucks two years ago.

Wonder why the Saks outlet had Bergdorf stuff, though. They're owned by NM. I've seen Barney's and Louis Boston (!) stuff at the local Filene's Basement. (That's a store I miss. Murray Pearlstein did such a great job there. Too bad his daughter's a twat.)



Mooble said:


> Paul Smith is one of my favorites; never had a Boateng though. We Yanks still do it best. You can't say bespoke and not mention Bijan. Hmm, actually I guess that means Iranians make the best suits in the world. Damn Shah!


Bijan is highly overpriced and overrated. I've only seen one Bijan suit (when I go to LA, I always stop in Carroll & Co. but I'm going to going to jump through hoops for Bijan.

PS has some great designs. If the quality wasn't often so awful, I would own a lot more more of it. My favorite of the "Cool Brittania" types is Richard James.



npdang said:


> Lol what's going on in here... lobbs, loro piana, st. andrews, edward green? If you can afford to be sporting these, what's $5k for an amp?


Money on something that matters vs. something that's doesn't. 



npdang said:


> You can't really tell me that Lobb is that much better constructed than Alden or Allen Edmonds, or that RLPL is a better deal than Corneliani on sale at nordstrom rack??


Well, I am a big fan of both Alden and Allen Edmonds, though I haven't bought any AE's in a while. The No. 8 last doesn't fit me well, which is a pity because I would've bought a pair of the old Moras if it was on the No. 4. (I love double monkstraps.) But yeah, I do think the Lobbs are better. Better commensurate with the price difference? No.

But we're also talking a whole different style of shoe. IMO, American (and Austro-Hungarian) shoes are best suited to chunky, casual styles. Longwings, chukka boots, Budapester, and so on. And they're at their best in horse's ass rather than calf.

In suits, I think it's much more clear cut. RLPL on sale is a better deal than Corneliani on sale. Construction is much better, fabrics are better, cut and fit are subjective but I prefer RLPL. (That said, I own one Corneliani suit - a navy Super 120's pinstripe side-vented 6x2 double-breasted, and I don't think I own a Saint Andrews-made RLPL. Lots of Saint Andrews-made Luciano Barbera and Sulka, and lots of the old Chester Barrie made RLPL, but none where they meet.) 

Not that the Corneliani isn't a fine suit, though I prefer the Samuelsohn-made Paul Stuarts or Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece (Martin Greenfield) at a similar price.



npdang said:


> A few of my shoes from an old pic I found on my photobucket.. c&j nubuck chukkas, grenson MP, tricker's adelaide... a little funny looking, my first attempt at antiquing and dyeing... still much better than the original boring british tan.


Good stuff. I have those same Grenson Masterpieces (Stuart's Choice), actually. Women love the antiquing on those shoes.



npdang said:


>


Nice collection! When I get serious about watches, a Reverso is in my plans.



npdang said:


> Now we're really off topic!


But at least we're talking about something interesting, instead of a boring overpriced commodity part. I think another shoe pic is overdue. Or maybe after this weekend, a cashmere pic. I'm putting away the linen and taking out the cashmere this weekend.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Mooble said:


> Don't knock the Lobbs. They are the finest fitting dress shoes you can buy, the bespoke ones anyway.


Keep in mind that we're talking about off-the-peg John Lobb Paris shoes here, not the bespoke John Lobb St. James shoes. Those are the most expensive shoes in the world, I think. Too rich for my blood, that's for sure! (I pretty much top out at bespoke from two Viennese cobblers: Georg Materna or Balint.)


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

if i had the money ds has put in his closet in clothes and shoes i'd buy one of these and still have enough to buy gas for it for about 10 years


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm a Texan, born and bred. There are 2 kinds of footwear, tennis shoes and boots. Tony Llama, Nakona or Larry Mayhan-FTW


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

SublimeZ said:


> I'm a Texan, born and bred. There are 2 kinds of footwear, tennis shoes and boots. Tony Llama, Nakona or Larry Mayhan-FTW


I'm a Texan by choice but I concur.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

SublimeZ said:


> I'm a Texan, born and bred. There are 2 kinds of footwear, tennis shoes and boots. Tony Llama, Nakona or Larry Mayhan-FTW


replace texass with arkansas and i wear newbalance shoes and redwing boots


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## tomtomjr (Apr 24, 2008)

Born in Galveston Texas, and I prefer sandals. But here in Dallas, tennis shoes and boots are rampant. Shorts in all weather, T-shirts, and sandals are my dress code. 
Strange how a topic can get this far off track. Talking about an amp costing too much, and end up talking about shoes.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Wonder why the Saks outlet had Bergdorf stuff, though.


This was 12 years ago. I think Bergdorf and Saks were both owned by Allied at that point. Needless to say, Bergdorf had the better items.



DS-21 said:


> Bijan is highly overpriced and overrated.


Overpriced, yes. Disgustingly so. I'm not dropping $30k on a suit no matter how good it is. I do have one of his jackets though. Fits like a glove! It's probably the finest constructed jacket I've ever seen. I've never worn a Kiton though. IIRC, Bijan gets much of his collection from Kiton.



DS-21 said:


> PS has some great designs. If the quality wasn't often so awful, I would own a lot more more of it.


True, I have two or three shirts and one already has a run in it. I love his designs though. Too bad.



DS-21 said:


> Or maybe after this weekend, a cashmere pic. I'm putting away the linen and taking out the cashmere this weekend.


Bah! Come to Texas and say that. It will be 2 more months before I even think about the Lucien Pellat-Finet and the Tom Ford era YSL Riva Gauche.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

For people who constantly look for the best "value" with speakers, some of you drop major coin on clothing and accessories. Are you looking for value there too, or just having the best you can afford? Cause I'm a bit confused.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

You _all_ have some ridiculous fashion obsessions.

My dress shoes were $49.97 on sale, straight off of Kohl's top shelf. And my next tennis shoes will probably be Walmart specials.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

squeak9798 said:


> You _all_ have some ridiculous fashion obsessions.
> 
> My dress shoes were $49.97 on sale, straight off of Kohl's top shelf. And my next tennis shoes will probably be Walmart specials.


Heh! I've never paid more than around $100 for a pair of shoes. I can't help it if I sniped $600 Tods chukkas brand new in the box off eBay for around $75 a pair.  That's the beauty of it. Why buy Florsheim when you can get Tods for the same price? Brand new in the box! 

My Bijan was the greatest steal. $6,000 bespoke jacket and I got it for $60 on eBay from a little Jewish guy who just happened to be my exact size.

I have champagne tastes on a club soda budget. 

I picked up my $1,500 subwoofer for $127 shipped!

I live for a bargain--and I'm a cheap bastard!


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

Mooble said:


> Heh! I've never paid more than around $100 for a pair of shoes. I can't help it if I sniped $600 Tods chukkas brand new in the box off eBay for around $75 a pair.  That's the beauty of it. Why buy Florsheim when you can get Tods for the same price? Brand new in the box!
> 
> My Bijan was the greatest steal. $6,000 bespoke jacket and I got it for $60 on eBay from a little Jewish guy who just happened to be my exact size.
> 
> ...


You've just crushed DS-21's spirit


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Man - I can't afford any of the stuff in this thread. Doesn't bother me, I'm just sayin'. Well, ok, the $49 boots I could cover.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

SublimeZ said:


> I'm a Texan, born and bred.


I'm sorry. You must need a lot of therapy to get over that personal problem.

How 'bout them Cowboys? Nice job against that rookie coach! 



Mooble said:


> Overpriced, yes. Disgustingly so. I'm not dropping $30k on a suit no matter how good it is. I do have one of his jackets though. Fits like a glove! It's probably the finest constructed jacket I've ever seen. I've never worn a Kiton though. IIRC, Bijan gets much of his collection from Kiton.


I've heard Bijan is variously Saint Andrews, Brioni, or Caruso. Does yours have one of those 
"Sig......"
"Data...." 

badges on sewn on the inside over the waxed paper fabric content label? If so, it's Saint Andrews.

And Kiton is overrated. Don't get me wrong, I love my lone cashmere Kiton sportcoat, and their ties are wonderful, but they're not the be-all-end-all. Saint Andrews is better made, and at Kiton's off-the-peg prices one can get real bespoke from Rubinacci or even Knize. Two American houses, Oxxford in Chicago and Adrian Jules in Ithaca (?), make higher-quality garments, though admittedly neither one quite gets the "sweater feel" down that Kiton (and Isaia) do so well.

I saw a Kiton suit _on clearance_ last August for $3k. That's just crazy! I've never paid more than $1500 for an off-the-peg suit. And that was an Attolini-made Luciano Barbera in a Carlo Barbera Super 160's fresco! Above that is bespoke money.



Mooble said:


> True, I have two or three shirts and one already has a run in it. I love his designs though. Too bad.


Mainline is occasionally really good. I won't pay two cents for Paul Smith London or PS Paul Smith, because I cannot abide plastic buttons.



Mooble said:


> Bah! Come to Texas and say that. It will be 2 more months before I even think about the Lucien Pellat-Finet and the Tom Ford era YSL Riva Gauche.


You like LPF? Not my style, really. Quality seems lacking, too. I think of them like I think of Berluti shoes.

I'm more a Scottish cashmere guy (lots of Ballantyne and Pringle) with a sprinkling of Italian stuff (Loro Piana, Brunello Cucinelli, Malo). The only "designer" sweaters I think I have are a 1998-vintage (pre-Prada) Helmut Lang charcoal heathered v-neck and a Karl Lagerfeld-era Scottish-made YSL RG turtleneck.

(Tom Ford is another one I just don't get. His tailored stuff is nice, but hugely overpriced. I even saw a sportcoat that cost $3k and had a machine-attached collar! Never mind that it was an exact replica style-wise of a jacket in my wardrobe that he did for YSL RG in A/W 2002, though Zegna did a much more careful job making than one than they do the current TF line...)



thehatedguy said:


> For people who constantly look for the best "value" with speakers, some of you drop major coin on clothing and accessories. Are you looking for value there too, or just having the best you can afford? Cause I'm a bit confused.


In both cases for me, it's the best, but no better than I need. For things like audio electronics, which are just faceless commodity parts, good enough is, well, good enough.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

SublimeZ said:


> You've just crushed DS-21's spirit


What would make you say that? Good for him for getting deals. Better that quality stuff be in the hands of people who can actually appreciate it, regardless of expenditure.


----------



## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> I'm sorry. You must need a lot of therapy to get over that personal problem.
> 
> How 'bout them Cowboys? Nice job against that rookie coach!
> 
> ...


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> if i had the money ds has put in his closet in clothes and shoes,


i bet for the money he has dropped into his 'bikespoke' closet we could get one of these EACH,


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

SublimeZ said:


> Yeah, it could have been worse. Did you see the Alabama vs. Georgia game?
> 
> Should I set you up with my therapist?


Nah, I'm good. Seeing burgundy and gold run rampant in the Texas Toilet cleansed any memories of Matthew Stafford seemingly facing all of Alabama by himself. (That kid is going to be a top-flight NFL QB.)

And for the record, boats are probably the biggest money-pit ever. After racing teams, at least. But obviously people have different priorities. It's quite different to have legitimate differences in preference, such as preferring a boat to a nice wardrobe or whatever, than to have illusory and illegitimate preferences, such as preferring one amp that sounds exactly the same as another amp on allegedly sonic grounds.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Nah, I'm good. Seeing burgundy and gold run rampant in the Texas Toilet cleansed any memories of Matthew Stafford seemingly facing all of Alabama by himself. (That kid is going to be a top-flight NFL QB.)
> 
> And for the record, boats are probably the biggest money-pit ever. After racing teams, at least. But obviously people have different priorities. It's quite different to have legitimate differences in preference, such as preferring a boat to a nice wardrobe or whatever, than to have illusory and illegitimate preferences, such as preferring one amp that sounds exactly the same as another amp on allegedly sonic grounds.


i agree boats are a money pit. for that reason when i do get one it will be a simple rig with not very much on it that can go wrong...nothing like what's in the pic above. more than likely an express or g3 with a 60hp on it. just need something to get me to the brushpiles to crappie fish and to the flats to brim fish in the summermy buddy has an older stratos similar to the one above and while it's nice he's ALWAYS dropping money into it and the lower unit is getting rebuilt this winter. the top part will be soon to follow with racing pistons or for that price he is also considering getting a powerhead for a 175hp to go under his 150hp cowl


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> For people who constantly look for the best "value" with speakers, some of you drop major coin on clothing and accessories. Are you looking for value there too, or just having the best you can afford? Cause I'm a bit confused.


i wonder the same thing. my work clothes were free from the company and i wear the pants everywhere since they're black and durable. everything else comes from either walmart or target. for the rare occasions i have to wear dress shoes my $20 puritans do fine. for work and play i have my newbalance flat-soled running shoes that are required for keeping my back aligned and also my woo daves slip-on shoes that were given to me and my fishing buddy by his uncle who was made a millionaire by winning the flw bass fishing championship. that's a whole different story though.

what i'm trying to get at is you have hardworking people that sport their fancy bass boats that they financed for 10 years and you have people that like clothes. i'm a country boy and no one can take that away from me


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> what i'm trying to get at is you have hardworking people that sport their fancy bass boats that they financed for 10 years and you have people that like clothes. i'm a country boy and no one can take that away from me


That's a really messed up attitude, and frankly one of the reasons America is in the toilet right now. What the hell makes you think that just because somebody likes clothes that s/he's not "hardworking?" That's the kind of ignorant ******** talk that gets us travesties such as George W. Bush and Sarah "Failin'" Palin.

Besides, chances are pretty good that the average doctor or BigLaw associate puts in far more time in her/his job than you do, while dressing to at least a reasonable standard.


----------



## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Besides, chances are pretty good that the average doctor or BigLaw associate puts in far more time in her/his job than you do, while dressing to at least a reasonable standard.


I work two ****ty jobs.  If I were a partner in a law firm, I could afford to pay retail.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

Hardworking? Maybe, but I'd rather be hardworking and dress to a reasonable standard than look like I'm "hardworking" wearing what appears to be cast off or secondhand clothing to afford a boat.
I can't compare to the clothing mentioned in this thread, but I like the way I feel and the way people look at me when I'm dressed in a suit and lookin sharp.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> That's a really messed up attitude, and frankly one of the reasons America is in the toilet right now. What the hell makes you think that just because somebody likes clothes that s/he's not "hardworking?" That's the kind of ignorant ******** talk that gets us travesties such as George W. Bush and Sarah "Failin'" Palin.
> 
> Besides, chances are pretty good that the average doctor or BigLaw associate puts in far more time in her/his job than you do, while dressing to at least a reasonable standard.


lol you looked too deep into my statements. people who finance something like a boat for 144 months or thereabouts are idiots. 

i'm not ashamed of what i do for a living. it beats sitting at a desk all day and/or dealing with high stress. i'd rather be poor and happy over rich and miserable. please don't try to pick this one apart also. i know you can be rich and happy but those people seem to be few and far between. just keep in mind money can't buy eternal happiness. i also know you're going to quote that too and i'm busting your balls totally

i respect ds21 for all he's accomplished and wouldn't pick on him if i didn't like him. now let's all get in a pile and ****


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> lol you looked too deep into my statements. people who finance something like a boat for 144 months or thereabouts are idiots.


We're on the same page there. Frankly, I wonder about the sanity (or at least the fiscal prudence) of anyone who finances any depreciating asset.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> i'm not ashamed of what i do for a living.


Nor should you be. But your notion that there are "hardworking people" and "people who wear nice clothes" is something straight out of the playbook Karl Rove, et al., have so successfully mined to get people to vote against their interests.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> i respect ds21 for all he's accomplished and wouldn't pick on him if i didn't like him. now let's all get in a pile and ****


Sorry dude, I like women.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> We're on the same page there. Frankly, I wonder about the sanity (or at least the fiscal prudence) of anyone who finances any depreciating asset.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol i was wondering how quick you'd catch thati just messin wit ya

about the long financing i don't know how it is in your area but you see A LOT of 35-50000 bassboats around here being pulled by older trucks. they get the truck they want and pay it off in 5 years then pay the boat off as quickly as they can. then before they can get the boat paid off their truck starts getting unreliable. and the 50 gallon tank that most of the big ones have LOVES premium gas


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And here I was getting all happy because I might finally get to get a couple pairs of True Religion jeans...lol. Maybe one day I can look at my favorite Brooks Brothers and J. A Banks clothes as common clothes...not that I wear those clothes much anymore.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

i'd like to at some point own one of these but only for the fronts. it i can get one for around $1500 or less out the door with warranty from a real shop i'd be happy.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> And here I was getting all happy because I might finally get to get a couple pairs of True Religion jeans...lol.


Please don't buy that stupid ****. Try something with a little bit more dignity. TR's are jeans for people of low discernment and moral character, who want everyone to see a stupid ****ing logo on their asses as if they were branded cattle. (Ditto Rock & Republic, and Evisu. OK, it's a bit hypocritical not to put Nudie in the same boat, but they use excellent denim and have some great cuts, so they get a pass from me despite the gaudy-ass back pockets. I usually wear mine with an untucked shirt in the summer and a sportcoat in the winter to hide the back-pocket nonsense.)

There are lots of great denim makers out there. Kicking Mule Workshop (KMW) is outstanding, Earnest Sewn and Ralph Lauren's RRL line are always reliable standbys. (My currently available* favorite jeans are the KMW 1950 and Earnest Sewn Fulton.50.) Nudie and APC are also decent enough standbys, though the latest I've seen from both seems to have taken a step down from what they were doing when I bought mine a couple years ago (Nudie Regular Ralf Dry Selvage, Bootcut Ola dirty dark, Baggy Bjorn Dry Selvage; APC New Standard and Anglais...yeah, I have too many pairs of jeans).

If you must go "designer," look to Red Ear (Paul Smith's denim line) rainbow selvage jeans, PRPS, Diesel (still great quality, even if most of the washes suck), or maybe Rag & Bone. Or even Seven For All Mankind!

*my favorite jeans regardless of current availability are the Classic Cut Raw Denim and Classic Bootcut Raw Denim models by Helmut Lang, ca. 1998 and 1999. Before Prada bought Herr Lang out and drove the label into the ground.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

i stick with cheap options cuz i'm always getting dirty. i'm not afraid of a little (or a lot) of dirt. the clean slacks in the closet rarely get worn. you've seen my pic and it's obvious i'm a rough one


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

DS-21 said:


> Please don't buy that stupid ****. Try something with a little bit more dignity. TR's are jeans for people of low discernment and moral character, who want everyone to see a stupid ****ing logo on their asses as if they were branded cattle. (Ditto Rock & Republic, and Evisu.)
> 
> There are lots of great denim makers out there. Kicking Mule Workshop (KMW) is outstanding, Earnest Sewn and Ralph Lauren's RRL line are always reliable standbys. (My currently available* favorite jeans are the KMW 1950 and Earnest Sewn Fulton.50.) Nudie and APC are always reliable standbys, though the latest I've seen from both seems to have taken a step down from what they were doing when I bought mine a couple years ago (Nudie Regular Ralf Dry Selvage, Bootcut Ola dirty dark, Baggy Bjorn Dry Selvage; APC New Standard and Anglais).
> 
> ...


And given the size of the "average American" these days, how many people do you think would look good in a pair of Nudies or APC?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

npdang said:


> And given the size of the "average American" these days, how many people do you think would look good in a pair of Nudies or APC?


that's where carhartt comes in. they're made for the stocky american that has every intention of beating the crap out of their clothes. let's not forget about dickies overalls either


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

npdang said:


> And given the size of the "average American" these days, how many people do you think would look good in a pair of Nudies or APC?


APC's are probably a bad idea, especially if one follows that "size 2 down" nonsense they (at least used to) push in their stores. 

As for Nudies, Grimm Timms or Slim Finns would both be, well, grim (ditto the RRL Slim Straight), but Average Joes and Regular Ralfs (now Regular Alf I think) are pretty forgiving jeans and except that they're overpriced relative to the quality (even more so than most "premium denim") I could see lots of Americans fitting into them.


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## Pantani (Jul 17, 2008)




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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Please don't buy that stupid ****. Try something with a little bit more dignity. TR's are jeans for people of low discernment and moral character, who want everyone to see a stupid ****ing logo on their asses as if they were branded cattle. (Ditto Rock & Republic, and Evisu. OK, it's a bit hypocritical not to put Nudie in the same boat, but they use excellent denim and have some great cuts, so they get a pass from me despite the gaudy-ass back pockets. I usually wear mine with an untucked shirt in the summer and a sportcoat in the winter to hide the back-pocket nonsense.)
> 
> There are lots of great denim makers out there. Kicking Mule Workshop (KMW) is outstanding, Earnest Sewn and Ralph Lauren's RRL line are always reliable standbys. (My currently available* favorite jeans are the KMW 1950 and Earnest Sewn Fulton.50.) Nudie and APC are also decent enough standbys, though the latest I've seen from both seems to have taken a step down from what they were doing when I bought mine a couple years ago (Nudie Regular Ralf Dry Selvage, Bootcut Ola dirty dark, Baggy Bjorn Dry Selvage; APC New Standard and Anglais...yeah, I have too many pairs of jeans).
> 
> ...


lmfao, $250 for a pair of jeans. 

and you think financing a boat is stupid.


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## Sassmastersq (Jan 12, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> that's where carhartt comes in. they're made for the stocky american that has every intention of beating the crap out of their clothes. let's not forget about dickies overalls either


I've had the worst luck with dickies... the stupid cast buclkes break on me, and I had the cover for one of the side buttons pop off, leaving a sharp metal edge right in the middle of my forearm to slice me open (hurt a lot, bled) carhartts have by FAR held up better than dickies for me... but I'm really hard on my clothes and tools. had a CRKT knife and snapped the blade in half, my spiderco has lasted better though.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

Sassmastersq said:


> I've had the worst luck with dickies... the stupid cast buclkes break on me, and I had the cover for one of the side buttons pop off, leaving a sharp metal edge right in the middle of my forearm to slice me open (hurt a lot, bled) carhartts have by FAR held up better than dickies for me... but I'm really hard on my clothes and tools. had a CRKT knife and snapped the blade in half, my spiderco has lasted better though.


Knives are not prybars 
Try a cold steel or benchmade (the Vex rocks)


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

60ndown said:


> lmfao, $250 for a pair of jeans.
> 
> and you think financing a boat is stupid.


Yes, _financing_ a boat (or a car, or any other depreciating asset) is stupid. _Paying outright_ for a pair of jeans is a matter of preference.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Now I gotta step in. I can see dropping some serious cash on dresswear if you are into that, its cool with me, in fact I have been known to be guilty of it (hillbilly card missing one punch.) But, I see bluejeans as WORK WEAR, AKA skin protection. And dropping that kinda cash on WORK WEAR is insane in my world.


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## DaleCarter (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't know how they sound, but flames are ALWAYS cool.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

chad said:


> Now I gotta step in. I can see dropping some serious cash on dresswear if you are into that, its cool with me, in fact I have been known to be guilty of it (hillbilly card missing one punch.) But, I see bluejeans as WORK WEAR, AKA skin protection. And dropping that kinda cash on WORK WEAR is insane in my world.


Fair enough. Maybe it is silly for a pair of jeans to cost more than a seven-fold Kiton or Bulgari tie. However, I wear jeans much more often than wool, corduroy, linen, or moleskin trousers. (I don't wear khakis at all. I dislike them.) My daily uniform for November through March is sportcoat with pocket square, dress shirt or cashmere sweater, leather-soled shoes or ankle boots...and jeans. 

And there's no denying that a man in well-cut denim creates the right kind of reaction in women. Workwear-type denim just isn't cut as flatteringly.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I forgot about 7 for all mankind.

I used to think that kind of money for jeans was absurd too. But the quality of the denim and fit of the pant is much better than my good old 501s...not that there is anything wrong with the 501s cause I love them. But I was once told life is too short to drink cheap beer...and it's better to have one really nice suit than 2 cheap ones.

So I figure I'm due for some nice clothes...baring that I don't gain anymore weight. That, and my ex was really into fashion...and it would burn her ass for me to have nice things when she couldn't But without her, I wouldn't have even known about some of these brands.

Thanks for the heads up DS-21, I'll check out some of those lines you mentioned.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> I forgot about 7 for all mankind.


I really like 7FAM's 5-pocket bootcut cords, even though they have some plastic in them (14% poly, 2% lyrca). My pair were definitely worth the $30 I paid for them on clearance at Scoop in NYC four years ago. (Yes, I have incredible capacity for remembering really stupid ****.) 

Yesterday I wore my pair (in brown) under an old (Chester Barrie-made) blue with silver triple-stripe windowpane RLPL sportcoat in that 99% wool, 1% cashmere fabric they were fond of in RLPL's English era, a white with light blue and navy check linen button-down collar shirt by Lorenzini for RLPL, a white linen with burgundy edges pocket square by Zegna, brown with green spots over-the-calf merino blend socks by Marcoliani, and caramel-colored Stuart's Choice (Grenson MP) wholecuts.
(Wow, reading this thread it would seem as if half of my wardrobe were RLPL! That is hardly the case. ) 

However, I cannot say I am a huge fan of their jeans. Admittedly, they don't fit my aesthetic - I overwhelmingly wear raw jeans heavily dyed in natural indigo, and my rotation is such that none of them really look worn - but quality-wise they seem like mall-store jeans that are occasionally cut more flatteringly. I think I would probably prefer H&M or Zara to 7FAM for denim, honestly. Still, one can generally find good prices on them at Saks Off5th, Nordstrom Rack, or NMLC. Even TJ Maxx/Marshall's sometimes get decent jeans and other clothes, though you'll wade through a lot to find the gems. 



thehatedguy said:


> Thanks for the heads up DS-21, I'll check out some of those lines you mentioned.


Cheers. IIRC, you're somewhat close to ATL, right? Labor Day weekend the NMLC at Discover Mills in Lawrenceville (near where 316 splits off from 85) had a bunch of sizes of Red Ear rainbow selvage jeans and a fair amount of PRPS, too. Completely different aesthetic, but they had some cotton/linen blend Loro Piana "jeans" as well. And, infuriating me, Incotex-made, Zegna-badged (Incotex seems to make most of Zegna's pants today) dark orange cords for about 1/6 of what I paid for my identical looking but for the label Inco's.

Dresscodes in Decatur (see KMW link above) is a really great store, too, though they rarely discount unless you're a regular.


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## Pantani (Jul 17, 2008)

Hey ladies, what do you think about getting back on topic instead of the "cashmere" and "flattering cut jeans"? Otherwise let this thread die? This is after all in the DIYMA section, not the fashion boutique section. Although, maybe an admin could make one for you guys to talk about the latest trends and hot accessories for the fall?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

DS-21 said:


> Fair enough. Maybe it is silly for a pair of jeans to cost more than a seven-fold Kiton or Bulgari tie. However, I wear jeans much more often than wool, corduroy, linen, or moleskin trousers. (I don't wear khakis at all. I dislike them.) My daily uniform for November through March is sportcoat with pocket square, dress shirt or cashmere sweater, leather-soled shoes or ankle boots...and jeans.
> 
> And there's no denying that a man in well-cut denim creates the right kind of reaction in women. Workwear-type denim just isn't cut as flatteringly.


And fair enough on my part too, I don't see jeans in dresswear and would refuse to wear denim as proper dress attire, Possibly my up-bringing?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Pantani said:


> Hey ladies, what do you think about getting back on topic instead of the "cashmere" and "flattering cut jeans"? Otherwise let this thread die? This is after all in the DIYMA section, not the fashion boutique section. Although, maybe an admin could make one for you guys to talk about the latest trends and hot accessories for the fall?


lmfao, classic


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

chad said:


> And fair enough on my part too, I don't see jeans in dresswear and would refuse to wear denim as proper dress attire, Possibly my up-bringing?


Makes sense. I'm trying to think if my father even owned a pair of jeans. I'm pretty sure the answer is either "no" or "maybe somebody bought him a pair once, but he never wore them."

And the "uniform" I mentioned was for casual, daily stuff. Going to class, the movies, the grocery store, a restaurant without a dress code, etc.

For anything requiring proper dress attire, it's either wool (worsted, flannel, or fresco, depending on the temperature) or occasionally linen in the summer.

Also, I think people's perception of denim generally has moved more towards the the European perception. Denim was never workwear in Europe. Until it was all over the place, it was kind of exotic, something that the rive gauche intellectual would wear beneath his black turtleneck from Colette. Levi's 501's always cost about 3x as much in Europe as they do here.

That makes historical sense. Basically everything men wear today is derived from either workwear, dress military uniforms, or field military garb. Even the cardigan and jackets with Raglan sleeves (no defined shoulder) are military, in both cases named for British officers in the Crimean War. And yesterday's casual workwear is tomorrow's formal attire. At the turn of the century, the modern dress suit was decidedly casual, and gentlemen went about in morning coats for formal business.


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## TokoSpeaker (Nov 12, 2010)

How to become a dealer from AudioWave?
How to buy?

I am very interested to buy this AudioWave and request to be their dealer in Indonesia.

Thank you.

Email : [email protected]


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## senior800 (Nov 10, 2010)

bursabaju said:


> How to become a dealer from AudioWave?
> How to buy?
> 
> I am very interested to buy this AudioWave and request to be their dealer in Indonesia.
> ...


Not sure if there are any American dealers but e-mail [email protected] and he'll hook you up I'm sure.


Just skimmed this thread and I know it was 3 years ago but the level of 'dickistry' in it wow. Audiowave make some absolute audio pornography!


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

love those d blocks lol


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