# Odds of placing top 3 in modern IASCA Pro SQ with "Stealth" system?



## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

The last sound-off I entered was over 2 decades ago. While I used to do quite well, most of the show systems I built were pretty flashy, and "stealth" wasn't really on my radar back then...pun intended.

I'm considering running a car in Pro SQ next season, and would like input on whether a "totally stealth" SQ system stands a chance in today's competitive circuit?

Neon, LEDs and little train sets racing around my trunk are the antithesis of what I'm going for this time.

I wish to showcase the interconnect and accessories I fabricate, and promote my work via successfully winning repeated events.

Of course, the system will have a few tricks up its sleeve, such as the air conditioned amp rack with dehumidifier I ran in my best setup in the 1990s, but when you open a door, the trunk, glove box, etc., there will be almost Zero evidence there's an aftermarket stereo, let alone an SQ comp system able to breach 140dB.

Those of you with lots of recent competition experience, please chime-in as to what your opinions are? Can a stealth system clobber systems with multiple motorized panels, plexi work, huge/intricate fiberglass panels, etc.?

The car in question is a 2001 E38 BMW short wheelbase, which, if you're familiar with, you know is already a VERY difficult car to get a good sound stage in when relegated to the OEM speaker locations.

I refuse to chop this car up. It's as close to perfect as I'm ever going to find in this particular model. 

I also have a Honda Fit I could chop to bits/ use as the base, but A) Too easy. B) Yuck. Any and all input would be great!


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)




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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Iasca has 2 install categories per class. Custom and stock.
If the goal is a stealth, mostly stock looking vehicle -compete in stock.

If you want to do a more highlighted build showcasing lots of the build..compete in custom


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Great info! Thank you.

I guess my lazy *** should download the rulebook, eh? Lol...


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## DiamondFanatic (Dec 26, 2007)

I’ve been reading the rules and it seemed like there were a lot of limitations if you didn’t have a good factory midrange location... or am I getting confused with MECA?


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Interesting, because the biggest challenge in an e38 is those crap midrange enclosures in the doors, 2.1" deep, and 70,000 yards long. Shame on the putz who designed the system in these and the E39.


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## Likeabat (Aug 19, 2020)

I wanna see the little train sets running around in the trunk!! 😁👍


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Ever hear of FishMan? He had fish in his builds.

If I do the Fit instead of the BMW, there won't be trains, but maybe something trippy like an HD LCD the shape of entire hatch floor. Very costly though. Would exceed the rest of system, just for glitz...

The challenge with the Bimmer is, any e38 owner can attest, the speaker placement stinks, and the "DSP" system eats it. Couple that to zero available aftermarket dash kits, an impossibly shallow radio opening (ac vents and flap cables abound), and zero room in kick panels make the e38 an enormous challenge. I hope to build a custom head unit using OEM chassis and the burl trim, which looks bone stock until PWR gets hit.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

DiamondFanatic said:


> I’ve been reading the rules and it seemed like there were a lot of limitations if you didn’t have a good factory midrange location... or am I getting confused with MECA?


Limitations on what? Meca classes are based upon install complexity so every car in the class competes against a similarly designed vehicle.
In "lower" classes like stock, street and mod street you are essentially limited to stock locations....so cars with poor locations could potentially be at a disadvantages.
But if that is a concern them build a car for a class that allows more modifications.

Iasca classes loosely follow the Meca templates to allow easier crossover competitions but allows many more modifications to be done in the lower classes.

Neither Org requires install to be done as part of scoring. Sound Quality is separate from install.

All org have rulebooks for downloads free online


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Mic10is said:


> Limitations on what? Meca classes are based upon install complexity so every car in the class competes against a similarly designed vehicle.
> In "lower" classes like stock, street and mod street you are essentially limited to stock locations....so cars with poor locations could potentially be at a disadvantages.
> But if that is a concern them build a car for a class that allows more modifications.
> 
> ...


What car did you run in IASCA in 05? I'm not familiar with Meca. 

I do not want limitations on mounting locations.

I wish to compete Pro or Expert. My concern is the points docked for things like "creativity" if the system is virtually invisible. 

Anyone with a decent shop and some creativity can build a sick Honda Fit; I want to challenge myself.

So far, here's the current BMW mockup:

Gutted JVC double-din, massaged into OEM radio housing (difficulty, 7/10)

Morel XO6 in doors, run active
Morel X06 in rear deck, active, limited to 8khz
1993 JBL 1500GTi sub, reconed by Creative Acoustics (proper) 
Custom aperiodic membrane, with electronic resistance adjustments (not Real time adjustment) can be set for RTA, SPL (closed), and SQ. (Difficulty 8/10)
Virtual "Aperiodic Normalization Network," based off an Autosound 2000 unit my friend hacked for me (or should I say...he improved) to work with multiple settings, and bypass when sealed for SPL.
Auricle Audio Design "Encore! Teflon" RCA cables from source unit to trunk
Auricle Audio Design "Micro Mass" RCAs, varying from 6.5" to 11.5", connecting DSP to amps
AudioControl DM810* (*not written in stone)
Gutted Phoenix Gold EQ231, used as shroud for the fugly AudioControl DSP. There will be a detent, and with the push of a finger, the face of the EQ231 will lower via simple hydraulic shocks (from a Tamiya RC truck!) The EQ231 will be re-powdercoated black to match amps.
Zapco (undecided) 6ch
Zapco Class A/B 2ch with no internal xover, bridged. (Both amps would appear to be one chassis, unless you get about 6 inches from them, and see the 3d printed material adjoining them is not real aluminum...)
0.26cu ft door enclosures, with resistive vents and laminar-flow rear walls, designed to direct rear waves 360° , minimizing heard cabinet reflections through cone. (Think "Hershey Kiss-shaped golf-ball.") The gentleman printing these for me makes some of the most incredible home speakers I've ever heard, and they are thin enough to mount next to a flat screen TV!
8" shallow-mount midbass drivers in an undisclosed location. 
I can get 8s in the front doors as well, but it would mean the front windows are no longer operable. (Not an option on this car, as it's also my daily driver in nice weather.)
Coustic RTA 33 in factory nav brain location in trunk.
HD camera, rigged to send image of RTA to the JVC in dash. 
Windows 10, with 5G internet, and touch GUI via JVC. (May be cost prohibitive.) Other option is rob the touchscreen from my Sony Micro PC and have it disguised as the retractable factory cup holder which sits at bottom of AC controls, or settle for an Android running a Windows emulator (barf).


With the FIT, I would literally just remove dash and center console, and have a 15" sub dead-center, and an 8", 5.25" and tweeter for left/right channels, which would be recessed almost to the firewall. Front seats would be moved back 6", further increasing pathlength. ZERO rear fill. Zero DSP, aside from 1/3 oct equalization. 18" sub, i.b., glassed into spare tire well. Custom LCD HD "monitor" rear hatch floor, exact shape of hatch, which flips up when using the 18, exposing an amp rack which appears to be bubbling under water. (The idea is to have the lcd monitor showing an image of OEM carpet, then footage of a deep-sea HD film, with sharks swimming around, so when the LCD is flipped up, the bubbling liquid between the monitor and amp rack literally makes the judges crap selves.) The software to interpolate a 16:9 image to a custom shape is proprietary and extremely hard to work with, but the end result would probably impress even folks who despise me.


Both systems would be fun, but the Fit could be built in 6-10 weeks, vs about 5 months for the BMW.

Not sure I can afford the Bimmer build, which is why I drew up the design for the FIT.

-O.C.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

2005 I won Pro Street 601+ Iasca.
2010 I won Meca Extreme Class.
Both w an E36 BMW coupe

My advice is go to some shows. See some cars. Listen to cars. Talk with owners.
The next big show is Steel Valley Regionals in WV at end of July.
Then Hybrid Audio Parkinson's event in end of Sept.
Joint Meca/Iasca/Emma finals is end of October in Arkansas

Things have changed dramatically since the 90s and 2000.


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

I gather things are insane these days, and I am DEFINITELY headed to the WV show!

Thanks for the advice. 

Was one your e36es a 318ti?


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## Irishklover (Nov 8, 2020)

Dave the fishman . Now there is a name i havent heard of in a while . Wonder what happened to him ?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Old'sCool said:


> I gather things are insane these days, and I am DEFINITELY headed to the WV show!
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> Was one your e36es a 318ti?


Yes I had a Ti that had moderate success ,not as succesaful as my coupe


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Irishklover said:


> Dave the fishman . Now there is a name i havent heard of in a while . Wonder what happened to him ?


Interesting dude, to say the least. Last time I saw him was 1993 Daytona SB Nats!


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Doug from MSC America said the Fishman is living in California and continuing to do all the fancy installs.


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## Alex C (May 19, 2021)

Im up in MD I might just have to make the drive down to WV. I’ve never been to a show before and Id want to enter and see what I score but Im not sure if its even worth it with my current build. All stock locations and trunk box with Audiofrog, Focal, stereo integrity and one Match7up and AC1.1500 in my Bmw X3


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Go for it, Alex!

I was nervous at my 1st show. We drove 6 hours to Savannah, GA to enter Novice 251-500W. Was sure I would get my butt kicked. There were some AMAZING cars in my class.

Took 3rd out of 8 or 9 cars.

Still have the trophy, and still remember cheering so hard when they called my name, and running to the podium so excited, that it got the entire crowd amped! (All 200 spectators...lol.) You'd have thought I won Best of Show.

Anyway, for a kid who didn't have much confidence at the time, THAT was the day I realized maybe I was a bit hard on myself.

Same car went on to win many events in Novice, and a few Pro events years later (with a makeover).


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Alex C said:


> Im up in MD I might just have to make the drive down to WV. I’ve never been to a show before and Id want to enter and see what I score but Im not sure if its even worth it with my current build. All stock locations and trunk box with Audiofrog, Focal, stereo integrity and one Match7up and AC1.1500 in my Bmw X3


Look up Meca car audio, Iasca, and EMMA. Read the rulebooks.
Get an understanding of the rules for each organization and how they class vehicles.
Get on Facebook and look up Sqology which runs most of the major events in the US.

For events like SVR, preregistration is very helpful for logistical purposes.

I'd definitely be curious to see/hear your X3 since we are currently building my wife's X3 which should be mostly complete for SVR


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Mic10is said:


> Look up Meca car audio, Iasca, and EMMA. Read the rulebooks.
> Get an understanding of the rules for each organization and how they class vehicles.
> Get on Facebook and look up Sqology which runs most of the major events in the US.
> 
> ...


I'd love to see one of your Bimmers in person. Not sure I'll be in Holly Spgs anytime soon, but I may hit the SVR. Are you running multiple cars?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Old'sCool said:


> I'd love to see one of your Bimmers in person. Not sure I'll be in Holly Spgs anytime soon, but I may hit the SVR. Are you running multiple cars?


My wife's X3 will be there. I'll have my TSX. My other 2 BMW are long gone.
I have another E36 coupe in progress but won't be making it out to shows anytime soon. Maybe 2022


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## Alex C (May 19, 2021)

Mic10is said:


> My wife's X3 will be there. I'll have my TSX. My other 2 BMW are long gone.
> I have another E36 coupe in progress but won't be making it out to shows anytime soon. Maybe 2022


Whats in her X3? What year? If SVR is that event in WV in July I may have to make that 6hr drive.


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Another question for ya, Mic10...

If a contestant wanted to enter a COMPLETELY ugly car on the outside, with a ridiculously sick install/interior , what would the best sanctioning body complete in?

In other words, say I had a car where the amount of work on the system required SO much work, it would be foolish to chop up a nice car. Which would dock no/or the least points for a beater car? Terrible paint, dent on the A pillar, steel wheels, but inside is like the Church of Sound Quality, and the build is impeccable?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Alex C said:


> Whats in her X3? What year? If SVR is that event in WV in July I may have to make that 6hr drive.


 2007 E83 X3 and yes. Steel.Valley Regional is WV.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Old'sCool said:


> Another question for ya, Mic10...
> 
> If a contestant wanted to enter a COMPLETELY ugly car on the outside, with a ridiculously sick install/interior , what would the best sanctioning body complete in?
> 
> In other words, say I had a car where the amount of work on the system required SO much work, it would be foolish to chop up a nice car. Which would dock no/or the least points for a beater car? Terrible paint, dent on the A pillar, steel wheels, but inside is like the Church of Sound Quality, and the build is impeccable?


I advise reading the orgs rulebooks.
Each org covers this exact topic.

Only Emma judges Install along with Sound but Emma is super basic check list of basic install practices.

The others are all Al la carte. If you want to compete in Sq then vehicle condition doesn't matter.
If you also want to compete in install, then preexisting vehicle condition should normally not be taken into account in most classes.


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## Old'sCool (May 16, 2021)

Mic10is said:


> I advise reading the orgs rulebooks.
> Each org covers this exact topic.
> 
> Only Emma judges Install along with Sound but Emma is super basic check list of basic install practices.
> ...


Wow. A lot has changed! Thanks man


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