# Going from 4V to 2V preouts: Noticable drop in sound quality?



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I have 4V preouts right now but having been on the prowl over the past 6 months for a Pioneer double din at a good price. I came across a Pioneer AVHX1500DVD for $165 this week. Obviously thats a price that attracts me, but it has 2V preouts. I realize that unless im willing to fork out a lot more for a DD with 4V P.O....ill have to settle for 2V in this price ball park.

My question is, is it worth the downgrade in sound quality? How noticable will it be?

Another thing is, I have a single din 3 year old Pioneer right now. The new DD is Pioneer as well. Can I run the DD off my current wiring harness and power cord? Will it work or do DDs require more power and thicker/different wiring?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

4volt preouts are really just better at rejecting noise. With 2volt u will have to turn up the amp gain a bit compared to 4volt but that usually is not an issue unless maybe u where pushing a tiny sub amp to the limit and didnt have any more gain to go lol... 

At $165 id be happy with a 2volt ddin.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> 4volt preouts are really just better at rejecting noise. With 2volt u will have to turn up the amp gain a bit compared to 4volt but that usually is not an issue unless maybe u where pushing a tiny sub amp to the limit and didnt have any more gain to go lol...
> 
> At $165 id be happy with a 2volt ddin.


I see thanks. So i shouldnt be able to hear any difference?

Also, I added a part where about running the DD off my current wiring. Do you think it will work?

And where is the cheapest place to buy dash kits?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

It should be fine with wire size, the plug may be different but from the 6 or 7 pios ive installed over the last 10 years ive noticed if the plug fits then it will work. I would check the wiring diagram real quick just to make sure theres not something stupid like they switched power and gound pins on ya.

Amazon has dash kits, its about the only place i have bought them i didnt price search.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> It should be fine with wire size, the plug may be different but from the 6 or 7 pios ive installed over the last 10 years ive noticed if the plug fits then it will work. I would check the wiring diagram real quick just to make sure theres not something stupid like they switched power and gound pins on ya.
> 
> Amazon has dash kits, its about the only place i have bought them i didnt price search.


Ok thanks. The deck i have now is DEH-4200UB and the DD is DVXH1500DVD. I cant tell if the 1500 DD is the same connector plug. 

Also dont DDs require a special harness or no? I always thought this.

Backside of my Pioneer DEH4200UB deck now










Back of DVHX1500DVD double din. Also whats the yellow connector for?


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

All depends on your amps. Some amp will will give full output with less than 2 volts, and some will sound lifeless with less than 2 volts. If you have the room, you could add some sort of a line driver, as to boost the line level 4~6 volts.

From what I've found in most installs, high output rca's sound better.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

CrossFired said:


> All depends on your amps. Some amp will will give full output with less than 2 volts, and some will sound lifeless with less than 2 volts. If you have the room, you could add some sort of a line driver, as to boost the line level 4~6 volts.
> 
> From what I've found in most installs, high output rca's sound better.


My speakers are running off the Alpine power pack. Do any of you happen to know if this power pack gives full output with les than 2V? 

I cant refudn this DD after i install or if i try to plug in to see how it sounds so im trying to figure out if its worth it for me. If the power pack will sound lifeless with 2V preouts then ill pass on the double din and just upgrade to the newer Pioneer 4V single din.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I called Pioneer and the connector on the DD wont work on mine now. It has to be all rewired. What a major PITA since i already have all my wires from my Alpine power pack tapped into my current head unit power cord. Uhhh so that means the easiest way would be to cut the connector off my current power cord and splice all those wires to the new harness. Wow.

Ya as much as i want this DD for the big screen im most likely gonna have to pass on it, that and the fact I have no idea how my power pack would sound on a 2V connection and i cant refund the product once opened. So its not worth it for me.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Why would you run the Alpine power pack? The Pioneer speaker output also giving the same power....


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

kyheng said:


> Why would you run the Alpine power pack? The Pioneer speaker output also giving the same power....


The Alpine Power pack does 45x4 rms, deck probably does half of that.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

The Dude said:


> The Alpine Power pack does 45x4 rms, deck probably does half of that.


Then? Are you sure that Pioneer's speaker output of 18W cannot be as clean and powerful as Alpine's 45W?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

A difference of 3db for pretty much doubling the power, but isn't worth it in my opinion. Something more around 75 watts per channel won't cost too much more or may even cost the same or less, and will net 6db which is surely audible. Even if you don't need that amount of power, the headroom would be nice. Alpine power pack is a no-go IMO.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> A difference of 3db for pretty much doubling the power, but isn't worth it in my opinion. Something more around 75 watts per channel won't cost too much more or may even cost the same or less, and will net 6db which is surely audible. Even if you don't need that amount of power, the headroom would be nice. Alpine power pack is a no-go IMO.


Well, clean power are more important than more power.
I used to have JL Audio A6450 for my 3-way front setup, then because of space constraint I ditch it and change to Pioneer's DEH-P01 mini amp that only have 18W of output. But the power are way cleaner than A6450. So power means nothing most of the time.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

kyheng said:


> Well, clean power are more important than more power.
> I used to have JL Audio A6450 for my 3-way front setup, then because of space constraint I ditch it and change to Pioneer's DEH-P01 mini amp that only have 18W of output. But the power are way cleaner than A6450. *So power means nothing most of the time.*


You couldn't be any more wrong

and with 18 watts per channel, you have zero headroom


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

kyheng said:


> Well, clean power are more important than more power.
> I used to have JL Audio A6450 for my 3-way front setup, then because of space constraint I ditch it and change to Pioneer's DEH-P01 mini amp that only have 18W of output. But the power are way cleaner than A6450. So power means nothing most of the time.




That's throwing in dirt to prove a point isn't it?  There's plenty of amps for that same price that WILL have clean power as well as headroom. I would not suggest any raggedy amps just to have more power. No need to assume such.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

edzyy said:


> You couldn't be any more wrong
> 
> and with 18 watts per channel, you have zero headroom


Are you sure? Even with this mini amp, I still have to set the level to -17dB from my P9 on the tweeter and -12dB on my mids.
Choose the right raw driver and you have less headache on "headroom".


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> That's throwing in dirt to prove a point isn't it?  There's plenty of amps for that same price that WILL have clean power as well as headroom. I would not suggest any raggedy amps just to have more power. No need to assume such.


In my storeroom I still have an Audison LRX6.9 and Alpine MRV-F409. Those amps are for my new 8ohm power hungry drivers that I'm waiting for shipment from Germany.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Mayosandwich said:


> I have 4V preouts right now but having been on the prowl over the past 6 months for a Pioneer double din at a good price. I came across a Pioneer AVHX1500DVD for $165 this week. Obviously thats a price that attracts me, but it has 2V preouts. I realize that unless im willing to fork out a lot more for a DD with 4V P.O....ill have to settle for 2V in this price ball park.
> 
> My question is, is it worth the downgrade in sound quality? How noticable will it be?
> 
> Another thing is, I have a single din 3 year old Pioneer right now. The new DD is Pioneer as well. Can I run the DD off my current wiring harness and power cord? Will it work or do DDs require more power and thicker/different wiring?


The sound difference's you will hear will not be from the output voltage. In a car audio environment 4v is preferable to 2v, because you essentially get a stronger signal to your amps.

Will the sound change? Yes, because odds are those two decks have different internals. Go to best buy or a local audio shop and make sure you like how the deck sounds before you buy one. I am not a Pioneer fan nor did I like the sound from my avic-x930bt. It certainly did not sound like a 550$ headunit unit.

You also need to understand that companies focus on what DD headunits can do (bt, nav, dvd, etc). They are not geared toward true audiophiles. One double din that sounded pretty good was the Clarion NX604. It sounded very similar to the cz702 and has a lot of features.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

I will agree with westco on the point that I do look for 4v+ assuming that they are PROBABLY better units.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

My brother has been running the Alpine power pack for the last 6+ months. The difference between it and deck power is night and day. He also swapped out a 3 year old JVC deck that had 2.5 volt preouts with the Kenwood 997 a few weeks ago which has 5 volt preouts, everything sounded better with the Kenwood. He even backed his gains down for the fronts and sub. Granted the 997 has about 10x the EQ/processing capability built in, compared to the JVC.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

With the power pack you can also bridge it to 2 channels, which is what he has done, for 90 watts a side.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

WestCo said:


> The sound difference's you will hear will not be from the output voltage. In a car audio environment 4v is preferable to 2v, because you essentially get a stronger signal to your amps.
> 
> Will the sound change? Yes, because odds are those two decks have different internals. Go to best buy or a local audio shop and make sure you like how the deck sounds before you buy one. I am not a Pioneer fan nor did I like the sound from my avic-x930bt. It certainly did not sound like a 550$ headunit unit.
> 
> You also need to understand that companies focus on what DD headunits can do (bt, nav, dvd, etc). They are not geared toward true audiophiles. One double din that sounded pretty good was the Clarion NX604. It sounded very similar to the cz702 and has a lot of features.


Ok thanks. Sounds like since i value my sound quality highly that im best off sticking with what i have now or else just upgrading to a new single din with 4V. But im most likely going to just continue using wjat i got now and save my money. The thing is i cant hear this double din in stores cause they dont have it on demo.

Also

I got this power pack because my head unit for the most part at 22w rms per channel gave me enough volume, i just wanted a cleaner signal at loud volumes which the power pack does provide. The power pack also provides a bit more volume. Before i had to turn up the head unit as high as 52 on the knob...now 46 max. I wasnt looking to blow the roof off my car with 75 or 90 w per channel. I got this power pack for $80. Cant beat that and nothing comes close in 4ch amps at that price. Nice upgrade for me at a dirt cheap price


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

The Dude said:


> My brother has been running the Alpine power pack for the last 6+ months. The difference between it and deck power is night and day. He also swapped out a 3 year old JVC deck that had 2.5 volt preouts with the Kenwood 997 a few weeks ago which has 5 volt preouts, everything sounded better with the Kenwood. He even backed his gains down for the fronts and sub. Granted the 997 has about 10x the EQ/processing capability built in, compared to the JVC.


Hows the sound quality on kenwoods? Are they as good as pioneers? Ive always had pioneer and had a JVC...which i immediately noticed a huge immediate improvement going to the pioneer that i wont ever settle for anything less.

But i do notice that kenwoods provide much more features for the same price or less. If the DACs on them are on par with pioneers id consider one.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

I am a big fan of the 997, and the Excelon decks from the last couple of years in general. My knowledge level compared to most guys on here is minimal, but I know what sounds good to me. Strong preouts, excellent crossover section with multiple tuning options, time alignment, good Bluetooth connectivity, the 997 appears to be a great deck. I have been running a KIV-BT900 for the last 3+ years, very happy with it also. When it dies, I will go with a 997. I ran a Premier deck for a few years before that, DEH-600UB, not a bad deck, but I much prefer the Kenwood. I found that I was always playing with the EQ section on the Premier to dial in what I liked, and I never seemed to be happy with it. My .02


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Not bad, but for the price I'd personally desire something else. They don't list it's bridged power. Not sure why. 


PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Alpine Electronics KTP-445U Amplifiers


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> Not bad, but for the price I'd personally desire something else. They don't list it's bridged power. Not sure why.
> 
> 
> PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Alpine Electronics KTP-445U Amplifiers


90x2. I guess Pasmag never tested it in bridged mode. Hmm. Alpine KTP-445U Power Pack Upgrade any car radio to 45 watts RMS X 4 at Crutchfield.com


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The Dude said:


> 90x2. I guess Pasmag never tested it in bridged mode. Hmm. Alpine KTP-445U Power Pack Upgrade any car radio to 45 watts RMS X 4 at Crutchfield.com



I saw the 90x2 on Crutchfield's site, but I tend to look at what it produces below 14.4 volts. It was only 3 watts over the rated 45 watts when at 14.4 volts. At 12.6 volts it was down into the high 30's.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

Gotcha. Looks like it would do 74x2 then, going off the test numbers.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I'd say more than that. It probably does the full 90 at a real world 13.8 volts. However, plenty amps that can do 75x4 at 13.8 for close to that price. The only advantage I see is size.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

it is probably true, that a deck manufacturer in today's market will put a high output pre-amp section into a unit designed for better sound quality.

The dubble dins, pushing *only* 2V of pre-amp, may even have as much baseline output voltage as the 4V unit with all pre-amp controls set to flat.

As you push more circuits onto the signal, with various bass boost or BBE enhancements, or whatever, it may take more voltage from the baseline to run, in other words, the deck with more bells and whistles, maybe only pushing the 4V maximum, when you've engaged several of these circuits in a signal boost capacity.

If you're running a separate DSP or even any outboard crossover unit before the amps, that becomes your weak link in the chain and the deck voltage is basically not a factor.

so it's likely you'll hear "more ess que" with a higher voltage, but it's probably not because of the extra voltage, but the extra circuits involved.


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## The Dude (Mar 24, 2007)

For the small amount of time/cost, I would run a dedicated 10awg power lead off the battery to the KTP-445U, with an inline fuse for it by the battery.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

The Dude said:


> 90x2. I guess Pasmag never tested it in bridged mode. Hmm. Alpine KTP-445U Power Pack Upgrade any car radio to 45 watts RMS X 4 at Crutchfield.com


I know forsure that the power pack does 48W RMS per ch at 14.4V. I dont have the link but one of the reviews noted this.

With car off, its 38w. Not an issue to me anyways since i dont crank my system with car off....its hard on your battery and itll kill it in no time.

I just replaced my car battery and my old one was onnly 2.5 yrs old. I guess i cranked it at high volume with car off one too many times. I dont crank it for hours and hours, but 20-30 or even 40 mins here and there adds up and takes a toll on the battery.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

What are the odds that this JVC sounds jist as good as the pioneer? 

JVC USB/CD/DVD Car Deck with 6.1" Touchscreen & iPod/iPhone Control (KW-AV61BT) : Double DIN Car Decks - Future Shop

4V preouts for only $100 more.


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## amalmer71 (Feb 29, 2012)

Your ears will tell you.


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