# best peerless, vifa, seas 6.5"-7" midbass



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I know this question has been asked a million times in different forms, but I'm getting dizzy running through all the old threads and keeping the numbers straight. Answering the question or pointing me to the right thread would be helpful.

Basically, I'm looking for either a 6.5" or 7" dedicated midbass driver. Requirements are great power handling, not ridiculously large mounting depth, great power handling, 4ohm is a plus but not essential (the amplifier that will be used is a 4 channel that will dedicate 2 of its other channels to a 4 ohm Morel midbass in the rear doors, and so the amplifier is designed around that impedance), oh yeah and great power handling.

The crossover point will be down to about 90Hz or thereabouts, with a steep slope from my DCX, and the upper point will likely be in the 500Hz range or so. The midrange driver is a 4.5" Seas P11RCY.

To make the question simple (and perhaps a little different), I'll ask it this way: which is the best Seas, Peerless, and Vifa driver for my application, and of the three that you recommend, which would you choose? Or are you all going to throw a changeup and recommend something from Dayton?


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

Try the adire. a lot of output.


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

CA18, L18 & yes... the RS180 4ohm 
I think all 3 of those would be better than anything from Adire...


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## Slammed (Jan 27, 2006)

x2 ^^^

CA18RNXs > Kodas


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

racerraul said:


> CA18, L18


Which one's "better"?



> & yes... the RS180 4ohm


That would make my third Parts Express order in 1 week.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Also, doesn't the Seas C18 have a greater power handling spec (not that it's necessarily accurate to cross-compare) and greater Xmax? The sensitivity ratings also appear to be equal, although the testing conditions are lacking on the Dayton site. Can anyone address these concerns?


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

the seas rnx series and the daytons have about the same xmax, just that the rs180's xmax is underrated by PE. visually, they look about the same xmax. so i think output should also be around the same.

adire will have greater output than both of these i'm sure. only drawback is that it won't have the warmth that the seas and dayton drivers have.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

cotdt said:


> the seas rnx series and the daytons have about the same xmax, just that the rs180's xmax is underrated by PE. visually, they look about the same xmax. so i think output should also be around the same.
> 
> adire will have greater output than both of these i'm sure. only drawback is that it won't have the warmth that the seas and dayton drivers have.


By greater output, are you referring to sensitivity?


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

not sensitivity, but how loud they can get for midbass duties...


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

peerless exclusive vs Ca18rnx?


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/
http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/Woofer1/7_inch_driver_comparison.htm

I think I would opt for the L18.
If cost was an issue the Dayton RS180 is almost as good.

Both of these have excellent tonal accuracy well up to & above 500hz. I would not be concerned with their output because they have plenty of it.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

I like this post! I use the L18s and I love them. I HP them at 63 Hz with a 24dB/oct slope, I think, and LP at 250 or 300 Hz, I think with 18dB/oct slope. 

I wouldn't suggest the CA18RNX unless you are going to be sealing your doors. A couple of weeks ago when it was really cold here in NH, my drivers started sputtering. I think water might have gotten on them and froze. This happened for a few days in a row. Anyway, they are playing fine now and I feel that the aluminum cone will withstand some pretty horrible conditions. I am not sure if the CA18RNX is capable of this, thus my recommendation.

I have a 150 watts for them and the gain is to its minimum. I also have my P9 attenuating them a bit.


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## Ocelaris (Jun 23, 2005)

The CA18RNX has a exposed Voice Coil, Chad had that concern, but built a little shield over top of them:



















Best Bass: Seas L18 - Very clean, reasonably deep with decent output potential, and it does so in a reasonable size enclosure with reasonable efficiency. All the right tradeoffs were made in this driver in regards to it's bass quality. The 3rd and 5th order HD products were excellent in the 50 to 150Hz range. The Extremis takes second place with great depth and output, but slightly higher HD. 

From Zaphaudio...

But the L18 looks to be similar basket and spider construction:


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## Ocelaris (Jun 23, 2005)

L18






CA18


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Thanks for the links.

It looks like either the CA18RNX, L18, or the RS180 would be my best choice. One link seems to slightly favor the L18, but the other link basically calls it a tie. So then I'd like to let power handling and sensitivity be the deciding vote, and if a tie still remains, I'll go with whichever one is physically smaller (for ease of installation). Still tied? Then I suppose price, which would mean the Dayton.

According to the graphs, it appears that the L18 and RS180 are roughly equally sensitive in the region I'm interested in (80Hz-1kHz) -- I'm making the assumption that they were both measured at 2.83v, as the impedances are very different. The CA18RNX appears to be the most sensitive. 

In terms of power handling, it's not clear which one can handle the bigger thermal beating (if I knew the answer to that, it may sway my decision) -- as for linear xmax, the three drivers are equal. The L18 boasts a higher "long term maximum power", but power ratings are often misleading. It looks like I'll probably go with one of the Seas drivers -- the C18 for its increased sensitivity or the L18 for its supposedly higher power handling capabilities. That is, unless someone sweeps in and tells me the Dayton was measured at 1w instead of 2w and is really the most sensitive of the three.

The tiebreaker may just end up being the exposed coil issue. I'll have to go back and see how Chad got around that problem.

So does Peerless not offer a driver that can compete? They've got a ton of different ones to choose from.


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Thanks for the links.
> 
> It looks like either the CA18RNX, L18, or the RS180 would be my best choice. One link seems to slightly favor the L18, but the other link basically calls it a tie. So then I'd like to let power handling and sensitivity be the deciding vote, and if a tie still remains, I'll go with whichever one is physically smaller (for ease of installation). Still tied? Then I suppose price, which would mean the Dayton.
> 
> ...


1watts equals 2,83 volts. often you se 2.83 volts and that is the same as 1watts, not 2!

Wich of the drivers is the best up to about 1,5-2,500 hz?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

hc_TK said:


> 1watts equals 2,83 volts. often you se 2.83 volts and that is the same as 1watts, not 2!


I believe the Dayton driver is 4 ohms, though, which would mean 2 watts.


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

Mark... IMO.

The 3 are so close in performance that it makes sense to go with the cost effective option. Dayton.

So only this one time... give in to the Dark side of the force  They sure are sexy in black...


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

racerraul said:


> Mark... IMO.
> 
> The 3 are so close in performance that it makes sense to go with the cost effective option. Dayton.
> 
> So only this one time... give in to the Dark side of the force  They sure are sexy in black...


Thanks. I must admit also that it's enticing to order from PE where I'm basically guaranteed shipping by Friday if I get the order in tonight, giving me a nice weekend project (weather permitting). Dayton has just jumped back into the mix.


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## Ocelaris (Jun 23, 2005)

The Peerless Exclusive was not reviewed by Zaphaudio.... but they do have one, it's called the 830883 





Peerless Exclusive 7" woofer
Nomex fiber cone
Phase plug - silver color
Rubber surround
Cast frame - silver color
Ventilated raised spider
Shorting rings
180mm flange
147mm cut out
78mm depth

Znom 8 ohm
Re 5.8 ohm
Le 1.3 mH
fs 52.3 Hz
Qms 2.79
Qes 0.50
Qts 0.43
Mms 17.7 g
Cms 0.52 mm/N
Sd 134 cm2
BL 8.2 N/A
Vas 13.0 ltrs
Xmax 5.5 mm peak
Voice Coil Ø 33 mm
Sensitivity
2.83V / 1m 87.5 dB
Power (IEC) W
Magnet weight 0.68 kg

Suggested box alignments:
Sealed box of 7 liters (0.25cf); F3 of 87Hz
Vented box of 10 liters (0.35cf); 1.5" vent by 3.6" long; F3 of 55Hz


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## MiniVanMan (Jun 28, 2005)

hc_TK said:


> Wich of the drivers is the best up to about 1,5-2,500 hz?



Personally, at 1.5 khz, the Daytons, at 2.5 the CA18's (because they extend higher). I learned that one with a direct swap between the two (8 ohm version of the Dayton's). Dayton's are extremely hard to beat up to around 1800 hz. Just because they're so inexpensive.


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## J2JD (Nov 14, 2005)

Ocelaris said:


> The Peerless Exclusive was not reviewed by Zaphaudio.... but they do have one, it's called the 830883


 Mark K tested the 830883, very good driver...

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/testing.htm


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

J2JD said:


> Mark K tested the 830883, very good driver...
> 
> http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/testing.htm


It looks like a very favorable review. But my concern would be: "It does not seem to have the brute force excursion of either the RS180 or L18, though, as demonstrated by the spectral distortion and 40 Hz HD tests." My application calls for decent low end extension and excellent power handling, so that's a bit worrisome.

Anyway, I just ordered a pair of RS180s. Can't go wrong at that price. But that doesn't mean the question is answered. I may still go with one of the Seas sets also, perhaps moving the Daytons to the rear doors currently occupied by a set of Morel MW164s (I think that's the number?). The Morels would be a nice starting point for a bookshelf pair...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

My vote goes for the L18RNX/P. Good cooling of the vc, and the largest vc out of all the drivers mentioned. Also the highest p-p excursion, and subjectively I think it just sounds better out of the box than the Dayton rs180 in the bass region. Or you can make it easy on yourself and just pickup the w18nx 

I know the exposed voice coil might be a problem, but in my experience I've used the w18 for almost 2 years in my door through some pretty bad rains and weather, and they still looked like new when I recently replaced them with the w18nx.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

hc_TK said:


> 1watts equals 2,83 volts. often you se 2.83 volts and that is the same as 1watts, not 2!


2.83V = 2w, not 1w...


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## airj (Dec 15, 2005)

What about this one:
http://www.visaton.de/english/artikel/art_130_1_19.html

I have Seas L18RNX-P and Visaton AL170. Visaton is still new, so i can't compare listening impressions right now, but for now i think it's better, because it has more kick bass and it doesn't have such a nasty cone breakup (it's at about 5khz but much lower, similar to the magnesium cone of Seas)


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

airj said:


> What about this one:
> http://www.visaton.de/english/artikel/art_130_1_19.html
> 
> I have Seas L18RNX-P and Visaton AL170. Visaton is still new, so i can't compare listening impressions right now, but for now i think it's better, because it has more kick bass and it doesn't have such a nasty cone breakup (it's at about 5khz but much lower, similar to the magnesium cone of Seas)



How much do those cost a pair? They have a nice freq. response and appear to have a shallow mounting depth. 

Ryan


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

I think they where $80+ @ e-speakers.com


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## airj (Dec 15, 2005)

That should be the right price..more or less. They cost about the same as Seas L18RNX-P here in Europe


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

Those do look interesting, can't seem to find the 8" specs (T/S)on e-speakers though......


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Visaton seems to have much of the same specs... same vc height, top plate, t/s parameters. Looks like you have one wider q breakup, rather than several high q ones. A mounting depth of 63mm seems strange to me though. That's about a whopping 15mm shorter than the Seas, which would lead me to believe that the driver has rather limited bass output due to shallower clearances in the motor, especially given the long 18mm vc height.


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## airj (Dec 15, 2005)

I don't know how much is real Xmax of L18, but AL170 doesn't play so low, it has more kickbass, so it is probably becouse of this why it doesn't have bumped backplate and just 63mm of depth


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

airj said:


> I don't know how much is real Xmax of L18, but AL170 doesn't play so low, it has more kickbass, so it is probably becouse of this why it doesn't have bumped backplate and just 63mm of depth


 Spec wise, I'm not sure why it would unless the published t/s parameters are not accurate, or the driver is highly non-linear. It could also be that the driver is not fully broken in yet, or who knows?


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## airj (Dec 15, 2005)

It has around 20% higher Fs (33Hz vs. 39Hz) This is high enough to not play equally low as L18.. i think  but they are not broken in yet (they played 5h max till now)


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## dragon76 (Jan 9, 2006)

isnt that second pic by ocellaris of the CA18 the rly,not rnx.For what its worth I plan on getting the L18 after much research,mainly for size reasons but consensus seems you cant go wrong with any of them for midbass.


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## Ocelaris (Jun 23, 2005)

You're Right, I must have not realized it when I borrowed that pic from madisound and hosted it myself. The post above has pics of Chad's CA18RNX... my apologies... madisound doesn't have any pics of the ca18rnx available at the moment.

Found this on madisound:



> Posted By: Chris (S01060006259a47fd.du.shawcable.net)
> Date: 1/24 8:10a.m.
> 
> In Response To: Seas CA18RLY vs. CA18RNX (johnnybravo)
> ...


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