# iOS to S/PDIF converter



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Simple question; would you buy a high quality 12 VDC device that could extract the digital signal and output it via coaxial digital and/or Toslink from your iOS device while providing a full charge?
The truth is tablets and phablets make the need for a HU obsolete. With the amount of quality DSPs on the market it seems like its time to see who would really purchase a device such as this and what would you be willing to pay?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I have to agree.. I've pretty much decided a mini tablet (very probably an iPad mini) will be going in the truck when I do that build, feeding optical to a Helix or JL DSP, unless something cooler comes out between now and then.

Although I do kinda wish Audison would get their Bit Play HD firmware fixed, unless they finally did and I missed it.. And I wish more companies would get into that external high-def storage/player solution. I think that might be the more viable option since car companies continue to make head units harder to swap, and the head unit market seems to be doing some really really weird stuff now, that's got nothing to do with good sound.

In terms of what I'm willing to pay.. I currently have a wired idevice to optical solution that was well under $100 via the Apple AV adapter into a toslink converter. However it's not a simple plug/play for power, but 5vdc at least which is standard lighter-plug USB power. There is a bit of funky wiring to do, feeding 5vdc to the converter and charging back lightning 5vdc.. I'm going to try using a dual car-charger for this if I can and fold up the whole mess in center console.

My scribbling for the system:


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Nuforce Ido will charge and extract digital, providing a coax out.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hextall 27 said:


> Simple question; would you buy a high quality 12 VDC device that could extract the digital signal and output it via coaxial digital and/or Toslink from your iOS device while providing a full charge?
> The truth is tablets and phablets make the need for a HU obsolete. With the amount of quality DSPs on the market it seems like its time to see who would really purchase a device such as this and what would you be willing to pay?


Is this just an academic "what-if", or are you actually capable of making this device come to production if the market seems viable?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> Nuforce Ido will charge and extract digital, providing a coax out.


The NuForce Icon iDo is no more.. Discontinued


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Hextall 27 said:


> Simple question; would you buy a high quality 12 VDC device that could extract the digital signal and output it via coaxial digital and/or Toslink from your iOS device while providing a full charge?
> The truth is tablets and phablets make the need for a HU obsolete. With the amount of quality DSPs on the market it seems like its time to see who would really purchase a device such as this and what would you be willing to pay?


Ya know.. From a purely performance stand-point, we might be thinking this thing wrong.. If an outboard DSP is a given, and the iDevice is a given, then why not an ideal solution (wired) of the DSP being able to directly connect and stream from android/ios devices via a USB port? 

The problem appears because I think there's some typical Apple-nazi licensing pay-outs to Apple, for any device maker to be able to stream directly from iPhone or iPad directly. I might be wrong there. But if that's true, it would certainly explain why there's so very little products out there for audio "player" or "DAC" devices that are a direct plug-in for an Apple device. Well, that, and the size of the market.. Us guys who look to get from lightning to toslink are probably quite far and few between.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs said:


> Ya know.. From a purely performance stand-point, we might be thinking this thing wrong.. If an outboard DSP is a given, and the iDevice is a given, then why not an ideal solution (wired) of the DSP being able to directly connect and stream from android/ios devices via a USB port?
> 
> The problem appears because I think there's some typical Apple-nazi licensing pay-outs to Apple, for any device maker to be able to stream directly from iPhone or iPad directly. I might be wrong there. But if that's true, it would certainly explain why there's so very little products out there for audio "player" or "DAC" devices that are a direct plug-in for an Apple device. Well, that, and the size of the market.. Us guys who look to get from lightning to toslink are probably quite far and few between.


Not over lightning. I use the camera connection kit to USB, into a portable balanced dac into headphone amp, works flawless, and is pretty damn amazing sound.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs said:


> The NuForce Icon iDo is no more.. Discontinued


Still can be found though. There's several on ebay each week.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

nineball76 said:


> Nuforce Ido will charge and extract digital, providing a coax out.


That's not for 12V. Neither was the Pure i20, they had to be hacked.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> Is this just an academic "what-if", or are you actually capable of making this device come to production if the market seems viable?


I know someone that can. The issue is $$$. That's why I'm asking here. A small device such as this is perfect for a crowdfunding project. What we're thinking is something similar to the HRT iStreamer except that it would output S/PDIF via coaxial and Toslink. Think of the possibilities of such a device; no more HU, built in music storage, your choice of media player (Onkyo is my fav), better sound quality than ANY BT protocol, built in NAV, BT phone calls, a larger touch screen display, all the power of Audison, Helix, Mosconi, Alpine DSP....




nineball76 said:


> Not over lightning. I use the camera connection kit to USB, into a portable balanced dac into headphone amp, works flawless, and is pretty damn amazing sound.


What does home or personal audio have to do with what we're discussing?



nineball76 said:


> Nuforce Ido will charge and extract digital, providing a coax out.


You just contradicted yourself. In the first post you say its not possible and then you say Ido will do it??
I know that you can extract digital asynchronously and charge the device. My wife's Ford Fusion with Sync does it daily. The device you mentioned is for personal or home audio use. What we're talking about is something specific to the 12VDC market.



Babs said:


> Us guys who look to get from lightning to toslink are probably quite far and few between.


Currently? Yes. However once the possibilities of this are fully demonstrated you'll see a lot more people who want this kind of technology.



Babs said:


> If an outboard DSP is a given, and the iDevice is a given, then why not an ideal solution (wired) of the DSP being able to directly connect and stream from android/ios devices via a USB port?


You're exactly right, it has to do with licensing via Apple. ie "Made for iPhone"


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hextall 27 said:


> That's not for 12V. Neither was the Pure i20, they had to be hacked.


It has a dc 6.5v input. Easy to find a dc to DC adapter for it


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hextall 27 said:


> I know someone that can. The issue is $$$. That's why I'm asking here. A small device such as this is perfect for a crowdfunding project. What we're thinking is something similar to the HRT iStreamer except that it would output S/PDIF via coaxial and Toslink. Think of the possibilities of such a device; no more HU, built in music storage, your choice of media player (Onkyo is my fav), better sound quality than ANY BT protocol, built in NAV, BT phone calls, a larger touch screen display, all the power of Audison, Helix, Mosconi, Alpine DSP....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why is there a difference in home, personal, or car audio. No signals are different. Seems you're stretching to make a point.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

And with your Ford, are you saying it charges a full size ipad or a mini and a phone?


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm not stretching, first we're talking about a device that easily works in 12V without adapters, USB charging plugs, noisy power supplies, hacks that not everyone is comfortable with etc
This would be purpose built, the other solutions all have compromises. They also add layers to the signal path such as volume control
Yes the Sync in her Fusion will charge my iPad Pro while simultaneously playing music a synchronously and even providing Siri support for NAV, pause for phone calls, etc. 
I get if you're happy with your solution, most aren't. Plug N Play is a huge feature


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Hextall 27 said:


> What we're thinking is something similar to the HRT iStreamer except that it would output S/PDIF via coaxial and Toslink.


That actually would be slick. Simply plug in as just an iDevice lightning dock with digi outputs. Sounds like basically a replacement for what the Pure i-20 used to do, but the i-20 I believe is obsolete for lightning iDevices unfortunately.

I'd think an easy 12v external box with a phone/tablet on one end, DSP on the other, would be the outstanding missing link. 

Ports being:
12v pos
ground
12v acc (turn on).. Or make it signal sensing even?
Lightning / USB input (for Audio in, charge back out)
Toslink and Coax output

The Pure i-20 was $100 I think.. This could easily fetch that. 
Add one to cart..


----------



## speakerman99 (Apr 18, 2016)

Another option that hasn't been mentioned so far is the Apple Airport Express. I've been extremely happy with my APE solution. I have a fairly new GMC truck so that helps a lot. I've been surprised actually, very seamless. Much better than I would have guessed. 

Basically you setup the airport express as local wireless network (purchased refurb model for $50 directly from Apple). When I get in the truck the phone auto joins the wifi APE network. Simultaneously, the phone's bluetooth sync's up with the truck. To engage the APE music service I simply open the music app and hit the airplay button and voila all my tunes streamed uncompressed over wifi with no crappy blue-tooth compression and then pumped over optical back to the Helix. 

Here's the best part. Most of the integration still works. The Helix can prioritize the digital signal from the APE. If I get a phone call the phone auto shuts down music and switches to the bluetooth connection. The Helix senses the change and switches to the analog input from truck (high-level inputs). Phone call is over, music resumes, helix switchs back to the restored digital signal. 

Also, I can change tracks and display track names on the factory head unit so long as the bluetooth or usb wired connection is present. Only real compromise at this point is I have to control the Helix volume with the Director which I planned to integrate anyway. 

I forgot to add that the truck has an AC plug-in that I was able to tap in to for power. I plan to eventually hack the APE and run direct DC current via 12V > 3.3 DC Converter. 

Here's a few links for those looking to research.
Apple AirPort Express Audio Quality
How to Add AirPlay to Your Car for High Quality, Wireless Audio

To the OP. Yes, a device such as you describe would be amazing and certainly fill a much needed void in the industry. But in the mean time this airplay option has far exceeding my expectations.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hextall 27 said:


> I'm not stretching, first we're talking about a device that easily works in 12V without adapters, USB charging plugs, noisy power supplies, hacks that not everyone is comfortable with etc
> This would be purpose built, the other solutions all have compromises. They also add layers to the signal path such as volume control
> Yes the Sync in her Fusion will charge my iPad Pro while simultaneously playing music a synchronously and even providing Siri support for NAV, pause for phone calls, etc.
> I get if you're happy with your solution, most aren't. Plug N Play is a huge feature


If you think it's a simple solution and easy to build, you should have just done one. Asking if anyone else is interested shouldn't be the reason to build it. Worst case, you'll have a one off and you'll be special. If it works, then maybe bring it to market.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

I agree it's a good idea, and I'd like to have one. So, why don't you go ahead and start a Kickstarter campaign and see what happens? The only way to really find out if this is a feasible product is to give people the chance to vote with their money. Sitting around arguing about it on a forum really isn't going to tell you anything meaningful. Get some features, specs and designs hashed out and I'll kick in some cash. Otherwise, this whole thing is a waste of time.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I've tried the Airport method.. Wired I believe is still king.


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

I stream 16/44.1 lossless to a Focal iBox which then feeds digital coax to my Mosconi 6to8 but intend to eventually run optical to the DSP so I can input untouched 24 bit audio. I would love to accomplish this with one lightning cable from an iDevice to an unobtrusive port so am definitely interested in your hypothetical product.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Catalyx said:


> I stream 16/44.1 lossless to a Focal iBox which then feeds digital coax to my Mosconi 6to8 but intend to eventually run optical to the DSP so I can input untouched 24 bit audio. I would love to accomplish this with one lightning cable from an iDevice to an unobtrusive port so am definitely interested in your hypothetical product.


Interesting.. Also discontinued, which is strangely coincidental I think.


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Any opinions on this option:

U18 asynchronous USB interface

Runs on 12vdc.


----------



## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Build it and I would probably buy it. I'm actually looking for a simple and reliable way to plug an iPad directly into my DSP. It looks like currently its HRT istreamer or airport express? Has anybody tried this? 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GP3PB4G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2JVCW1GQY516A

The thing I would miss though is having a physical knob or button for volume up/down. trying to move a little volume slider on the iPad while driving seems like it wouldn't be ideal.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

ryanougrad said:


> Any opinions on this option:
> 
> U18 asynchronous USB interface
> 
> Runs on 12vdc.


Interesting, but couldn't find much about it. A little pricey at $180, but not unreasonable if it works well. The only real used evaluation I could find on it keeps talking about having to load drivers on their computer in order for it to work. I didn't have enough time to figure out exactly what they meant, but that sounds like it could be problematic if running an iPad or iPhone directly into it. Here's a link to the eval. 

YULONG's new U18 USB 24/192 Async digital Interface


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Onyx1136 said:


> Interesting, but couldn't find much about it. A little pricey at $180, but not unreasonable if it works well. The only real used evaluation I could find on it keeps talking about having to load drivers on their computer in order for it to work. I didn't have enough time to figure out exactly what they meant, but that sounds like it could be problematic if running an iPad or iPhone directly into it. Here's a link to the eval.
> 
> YULONG's new U18 USB 24/192 Async digital Interface


The drivers issues seemed to be for Windows. Apparently no issues with MAC OS. The need for drivers is b/c Windows doesn't support some codecs without drivers. 

I found out about it digging around on Head-Fi. While pricey, I like that no DSP is involved and it's strictly converting signal from USB to Optical. This means I can run my phone or a tablet direct. Most of the other options involve a DSP prior to hitting my processor. The less processing I can have involved the happier I will be. 

I posted on Head-Fi in the thread about it. If I receive feedback will post here. Same thread you linked.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

ryanougrad said:


> The drivers issues seemed to be for Windows. Apparently no issues with MAC OS. The need for drivers is b/c Windows doesn't support some codecs without drivers.
> 
> I found out about it digging around on Head-Fi. While pricey, I like that no DSP is involved and it's strictly converting signal from USB to Optical. This means I can run my phone or a tablet direct. Most of the other options involve a DSP prior to hitting my processor. The less processing I can have involved the happier I will be.
> 
> I posted on Head-Fi in the thread about it. If I receive feedback will post here. Same thread you linked.



How would you connect an iOS unit with a lightning cord to it? It looks like the unit has a square type B USB ... Would you still need the apple camera adaptor and the use a type A USB cable to type B?


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Timelessr1 said:


> How would you connect an iOS unit with a lightning cord to it? It looks like the unit has a square type B USB ... Would you still need the apple camera adaptor and the use a type A USB cable to type B?


They make a lightning to USB type B cable. Charging is an issue for long trips. I can't find a y cable that will also charge.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

ryanougrad said:


> They make a lightning to USB type B cable. Charging is an issue for long trips. I can't find a y cable that will also charge.


Yeah, charging is def the issue with wired solutions. It seems the apple AV adaptor and hdmi extractor solution is one of the only senerios which allows charging and digital extraction. My pure i20 only "trickle charges" my mini :-( BUT it sounds phenomenal!


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Thus my going with the AV Adapter instead. It has a lightning charge-back port. 1 foot HDMI cable showed up today as matter of fact. I'm sure as I get that going I'll have some details on how I harness it all up in the build log. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Babs said:


> Thus my going with the AV Adapter instead. It has a lightning charge-back port. 1 foot HDMI cable showed up today as matter of fact. I'm sure as I get that going I'll have some details on how I harness it all up in the build log.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you planning to use to convert HDMI to Optical? I actually thought about doing something similar with an Nvidia Shield. It's $200, already has an HDMI output built in, with separate USB port that can be used for charging. Additionally, 64gb of HDD and up to 128mb expandable. Runs Android 6.0 so output can push unprocessed sound over USB or HDMI, bypassing internal DAC.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

ryanougrad said:


> What are you planning to use to convert HDMI to Optical? I actually thought about doing something similar with an Nvidia Shield. It's $200, already has an HDMI output built in, with separate USB port that can be used for charging. Additionally, 64gb of HDD and up to 128mb expandable. Runs Android 6.0 so output can push unprocessed sound over USB or HDMI, bypassing internal DAC.



Pick up an HDMI to optical "audio extractor" or "converter" (I've seen them called both). Parts Express or Amazon or Monoprice. I picked up some brand called ViewHD on Amazon that runs on 5v. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Here you go. 

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter?fnode=91


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs said:


> Pick up an HDMI to optical "audio extractor" or "converter" (I've seen them called both). Parts Express or Amazon or Monoprice. I picked up some brand called ViewHD on Amazon that runs on 5v.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From what I've seen, hdmi out will turn off the ipad display.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

There's always this option. It charges and doesn't turn off the display. And the cable and extractor are both cheaper than the HDMI alternatives. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...6-cost-effective-iphone-ipad-digital-out.html


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Onyx1136 said:


> There's always this option. It charges and doesn't turn off the display. And the cable and extractor are both cheaper than the HDMI alternatives.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...6-cost-effective-iphone-ipad-digital-out.html


Was going to link to this as it appears to be working well at home I have no reason to believe it won't work in car..
Have also tried it with a cablejive 60cm Lightning extender and no problems so have modified a Brodit dock to fit the cablejive extender..


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> From what I've seen, hdmi out will turn off the ipad display.


I didn't recall that from an iPhone 6.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> There's always this option. It charges and doesn't turn off the display. And the cable and extractor are both cheaper than the HDMI alternatives.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...6-cost-effective-iphone-ipad-digital-out.html


There is always going to be a pro and con for each solution. This solutions con is it only plays "or allows thru" cd quality sampling which might be perfectly fine for some people. The hdmi extractor since it's not a dac will allow a higher sampling rate thru, and since in my case I have a helix pro I can get 24/96 which is what hdtracks.com sells , so your getting better then cd quality. The con to the hdmi extractor is certain video playback will not be allowed on your source unit.

It comes down to what's important to you...


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Babs said:


> I didn't recall that from an iPhone 6.


x2. It only happens when playing videos. And the display doesn't turn off, it just goes to a black background and leaves the navigation icons on screen. For music, nothing changes so you can navigate tracks as usual.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

ryanougrad said:


> Any opinions on this option:
> 
> U18 asynchronous USB interface
> 
> *Runs on 12vdc.*



You'll still need a regulated DC to DC power supply, preferably ground isolated as well. 12v volt in mean exactly 12 volts in, not the ~9-14 volt range you get in a car. As well as other nasties that come into the line..


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Timelessr1 said:


> There is always going to be a pro and con for each solution. This solutions con is it only plays "or allows thru" cd quality sampling which might be perfectly fine for some people. The hdmi extractor since it's not a dac will allow a higher sampling rate thru, and since in my case I have a helix pro I can get 24/96 which is what hdtracks.com sells , so your getting better then cd quality. The con to the hdmi extractor is certain video playback will not be allowed on your source unit.
> 
> It comes down to what's important to you...


The Delock USB/SPDIF Adapter supports 24/96 according to its manual and this review backs that up... it outputs to optical whatever sample rate you put in...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/revi...L7X3IK/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

The problem with AirPlay is that if the file is higher resolution that 44.1 kHz 16 bit, then it gets down sampled to that. 

The problem with the HDMI out kit is there is a cheap D2A chip in the adapter cable. 

If someone were to come out with a DSP with a USB port for MTP device access, then I would say here, take my money. MTP(Media Transfer Protocol) let's you get access to the music digitally from the device attached. That is how head units source iPhones, walkmen, android, etc. to play from them. I want a DSP that supports MTP through a USB port.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Timelessr1 said:


> There is always going to be a pro and con for each solution. This solutions con is it only plays "or allows thru" cd quality sampling which might be perfectly fine for some people. The hdmi extractor since it's not a dac will allow a higher sampling rate thru, and since in my case I have a helix pro I can get 24/96 which is what hdtracks.com sells , so your getting better then cd quality. The con to the hdmi extractor is certain video playback will not be allowed on your source unit.
> 
> It comes down to what's important to you...


But the digital AV adapter that goes with it re-samples outgoing audio to 48kHz, so it is compatible with the supposed video devices it connects to.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The Delock USB/SPDIF Adapter supports 24/96 according to its manual and this review backs that up... it outputs to optical whatever sample rate you put in...
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/revi...L7X3IK/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1


I'm curious why the company for this product doesn't advertise its capabilities? It's only from a review that states the capabilities


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Timelessr1 said:


> I'm curious why the company for this product doesn't advertise its capabilities? It's only from a review that states the capabilities


Have a look on their website..

Delock Products Delock USB Sound / SPDIF Adapter


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Have a look on their website..
> 
> Delock Products Delock USB Sound / SPDIF Adapter


This looks promising... This way it can keep all video playback on the idevice

And it eliviates an extra power supply that would be needed for the hdmi extractor


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

If you don't like the delock, there's the turtle beach one for a little more 
Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro II USB Analog & Digital Audio Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036VO4X4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_OJ4MxbGF3BCB3


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs said:


> I didn't recall that from an iPhone 6.


I didn't consider the iPhone. It wouldn't be a choice for me for a source. I don't like cables all over the place. Only thing I'd consider is ipad, hard mounted in the dash.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Zippy said:


> The problem with AirPlay is that if the file is higher resolution that 44.1 kHz 16 bit, then it gets down sampled to that.
> 
> *The problem with the HDMI out kit is there is a cheap D2A chip in the adapter cable. *
> 
> If someone were to come out with a DSP with a USB port for MTP device access, then I would say here, take my money. MTP(Media Transfer Protocol) let's you get access to the music digitally from the device attached. That is how head units source iPhones, walkmen, android, etc. to play from them. I want a DSP that supports MTP through a USB port.


HDMI is all digital. PCM encoded into the hdmi protocal. It does however resample to 48kHz. Which isn't really an issue since the signal will be resampled to that anyways in all processors. Unless of course the recent ones that run at 96kHz, but it still doesn't matter since you *can't pull high resolution music through the digital av adapter's hdmi out.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

It's enough to make a person think of a dedicated player device such as Fiio maybe.
The goal, I'd think, is to eliminate all the conversions possible, so it's an uncorrupted source signal all the way to final single DA conversion, right?
I tell ya, if those guys ever come out with a mini-tablet player with spdif output, well alrighty then! 

I think a really purpose built solution would be a "good" version with "good" external device UI, of a 12v player such as the Bit Play HD.
A stay resident box, hidden away with the amps etc, feeding a DSP directly, controlled from device upfront.


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Babs said:


> It's enough to make a person think of a dedicated player device such as Fiio maybe.
> The goal, I'd think, is to eliminate all the conversions possible, so it's an uncorrupted source signal all the way to final single DA conversion, right?
> I tell ya, if those guys ever come out with a mini-tablet player with spdif output, well alrighty then!
> 
> ...


I've strongly considered the Fiio X7. Only has digital coaxial out though. Otherwise, perfect and has WiFi so you can tether to your phone for streaming or has it's own built software for playing your own files. I can keep a head unit for the radio and phone calls.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

nineball76 said:


> If you don't like the delock, there's the turtle beach one for a little more
> Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro II USB Analog & Digital Audio Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036VO4X4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_OJ4MxbGF3BCB3


Now this one even looks better since it comes with the toslink adapter. It also supports DTS and 5.1. Not that our Helixs can (yet). The company doesn't give or at least I can't find and documentation on actual specs or sampling rates that it supports.. Might have to call them ...

One thing also.. There would be no way to charge the iPad with this plugged in.. Does Apple make a lightning to dual USB adaptor to accept the USB from the turtle beach and also a USB to charge the iPad ?.. Hmmm. Maybe the apple camera kit.. It has a USB and female lightning .... So I can charge through the lightning and hook the turtle beach onto the USB ... And retain video playback on my source and still get full digital out with out any DACs in the way


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Now this one even looks better since it comes with the toslink adapter. It also supports DTS and 5.1. Not that our Helixs can (yet). The company doesn't give or at least I can't find and documentation on actual specs or sampling rates that it supports.. Might have to call them ...
> 
> One thing also.. There would be no way to charge the iPad with this plugged in.. Does Apple make a lightning to dual USB adaptor to accept the USB from the turtle beach and also a USB to charge the iPad ?.. Hmmm. Maybe the apple camera kit.. It has a USB and female lightning .... So I can charge through the lightning and hook the turtle beach onto the USB ... And retain video playback on my source and still get full digital out with out any DACs in the way


Yes, you'll need the Apple lightning 3 camera connection kit, has a USB and a lightning out. Usb plus charging. $39.99 from Apple


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Babs said:


> It's enough to make a person think of a dedicated player device such as Fiio maybe.
> The goal, I'd think, is to eliminate all the conversions possible, so it's an uncorrupted source signal all the way to final single DA conversion, right?
> I tell ya, if those guys ever come out with a mini-tablet player with spdif output, well alrighty then!
> 
> ...


BTW, the new Zapco dsp's have a built in HD player, through usb that you can control through an app. Plus 12 and 16 channels when they ever make it to market. Just pop a USB flash drive into the dsp and it goes digital straight in to it.


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

nineball76 said:


> BTW, the new Zapco dsp's have a built in HD player, through usb that you can control through an app. Plus 12 and 16 channels when they ever make it to market. Just pop a USB flash drive into the dsp and it goes digital straight in to it.


Yeah, but when will we see these on the market?


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ryanougrad said:


> Yeah, but when will we see these on the market?


I think I read 3q 2016. You know Zapco, they keep in the shadows.


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

​


nineball76 said:


> I think I read 3q 2016. You know Zapco, they keep in the shadows.


Since Zapco claims they have Wi-Fi, I'm hoping they just enable Wi-Fi streaming and that solves all problems. The best solution, in my mind, is for a DSP to have built in Wi-Fi for streaming.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

ryanougrad said:


> ​
> Since Zapco claims they have Wi-Fi, I'm hoping they just enable Wi-Fi streaming and that solves all problems. The best solution, in my mind, is for a DSP to have built in Wi-Fi for streaming.


I'd rather have a wired usb connection.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

nineball76 said:


> I'd rather have a wired usb connection.


Just got off the phone with a tech at turtle...and the max sampling their unit does is 16/48


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just got off the phone with a tech at turtle...and the max sampling their unit does is 16/48


Ok, Peachtree X1. It's more expensive at $149, but it's asynchronous 24/192.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> BTW, the new Zapco dsp's have a built in HD player, through usb that you can control through an app. Plus 12 and 16 channels when they ever make it to market. Just pop a USB flash drive into the dsp and it goes digital straight in to it.



That's right I remember that. First Google result: http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Zapco_sheet_dsphdr.pdf


I'm hoping more folks get into that. The Audison player is very flawed unless the firmware update fixed it, but sounds absolutely glorious. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

For anyone interested across the pond.. 
This appears to be the same as the Delock USB to optical converter that I have been testing with an apple USB3 cable..


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006...0_SR100,91_&psc=1&refRID=D4PKF5N67RA1CJJ56AVQ


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

____


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Here's another one folks in here have mentioned before that looks tasty if you've already got USB..
http://hifimediy.com/U2-DAC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Drop11 (Jul 4, 2016)

I've been digging a little into this though I can't say I quite understand it all. 
Have you guys finally found a solution for going from andriod to optical? If so where do I sign up and what's the price of admission?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Drop11 said:


> I've been digging a little into this though I can't say I quite understand it all.
> Have you guys finally found a solution for going from andriod to optical? If so where do I sign up and what's the price of admission?



See my above post. There are actually several ways. That hifime USB DAC I posted above I saw a guy in here is using with a nexus tablet. So for android devices with a USB port it's fairly easy. With iOS not so much. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

Babs said:


> It's enough to make a person think of a dedicated player device such as Fiio maybe.
> The goal, I'd think, is to eliminate all the conversions possible, so it's an uncorrupted source signal all the way to final single DA conversion, right?
> I tell ya, if those guys ever come out with a mini-tablet player with spdif output, well alrighty then!


Quite a few of the DSP's on the market use sample rate converter IC's to fix the rate and bit depth feeding into the digital signal processing IC.

For most of them this is the signal path with an analog input:
RCA line level input>ADC>ASRC>DSP>DAC.

With a digital input:
SPDIF input>ASRC>DSP>DAC.

If you know the sample rate and bit depth of signal processing in your DSP then fixing sample rate and bit depth of your digital source to the same and it can pass through the ASRC.

Here's an analogy to explain the problems with sample rate conversion. Imagine that the original source is a set of 16 stepped horizontal lines each one the same length and they form a very stepped sine wave. Then it needs to get resampled to 1/4 the original frequency, like from 192 to 48 khz. Now try taking every 4 of those samples and creating only one value to leave 4 stepped horizontal lines to represent the original 16.

Not that's it's going to be huge deal for most people the difference is negligible. But just like anything there are ways to do things that will improve the signal quality. There are several new DSP IC's that are easily capable of higher sample rate and bit depth processing. There is considerably more to it than just swapping out chip A for chip B and bam new DSP. There is tons of hardware, firmware, and software that allow things like remotes and real time tuning. Real challenge for the R&D departments.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

brother_c said:


> If you know the sample rate and bit depth of signal processing in your DSP then fixing sample rate and bit depth of your digital source to the same and it can pass through the ASRC.


All you are doing by setting the sample rate output at the source to that of the native rate of the DSP is performing that sample rate conversion at a different point in the signal chain. And chances are that it will be of poorer quality than a purpose built chip that has been refine for over 10 years now.


----------



## Drop11 (Jul 4, 2016)

Babs said:


> Drop11 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been digging a little into this though I can't say I quite understand it all.
> ...


Cool. I'm really wanting to try this for a few reasons. Of course the obvious but also to see if it's worth the upgrade to and optical head unit.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> All you are doing by setting the sample rate output at the source to that of the native rate of the DSP is performing that sample rate conversion at a different point in the signal chain. And chances are that it will be of poorer quality than a purpose built chip that has been refine for over 10 years now.


Unless the files have been converted prior to uploading them into your source. Say you have a library of 24/96 or 192 even, use your computer to convert them to whatever your dsp sample rate is, most i believe are 24/48, the dsp pro, ps8 and p six are all 96khz I think.


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

t3sn4f2 said:


> HDMI is all digital. PCM encoded into the hdmi protocal. It does however resample to 48kHz. Which isn't really an issue since the signal will be resampled to that anyways in all processors. Unless of course the recent ones that run at 96kHz, but it still doesn't matter since you can pull high resolution music through the digital av adapter's hdmi out.


Looks like we both are wrong with the Lightning AV kit. The link below shows what is inside the piece and explains that it is an AirPlay target. DVD grade audio signals at 96kHz is out the window. 

apples-lightning-digital-av-adapter-found-to-have-embedded-arm-processor

The AirPlay will put out what the target can do up to 48kHz. The commonly used airport express with toslink only supports 44.1kHz out.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> Unless the files have been converted prior to uploading them into your source. Say you have a library of 24/96 or 192 even, use your computer to convert them to whatever your dsp sample rate is, most i believe are 24/48, the dsp pro, ps8 and p six are all 96khz I think.


The only differance there is that you are doing a conversion to the complete file before it ever plays, versus an on the fly conversion you do to it with your DSP. It's the same as comparing a file you pre process in Audacity, and play through any format/device and a base file you process on your DSP.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Zippy said:


> Looks like we both are wrong with the Lightning AV kit. The link below shows what is inside the piece and explains that it is an AirPlay target. DVD grade audio signals at 96kHz is out the window.
> 
> apples-lightning-digital-av-adapter-found-to-have-embedded-arm-processor
> 
> The AirPlay will put out what the target can do up to 48kHz. The commonly used airport express with toslink only supports 44.1kHz out.


Eerrr, I meant to say can't* pull high rez. :blush:


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

So, if anyone is wondering about why I want MTP on a DSP. When I start up an app on my iPhone 6 that supports MTP and play a Hi-Res song connected to my 8000NEX, I can hear a difference in detail and overall sound quality. The 8000NEX 96kHz D2A chip is doing the conversion. I want that capability on a DSP. For years consumers and installers have asked for something other than RCA to run audio signal. RCA cables are large, subject to crosstalk, and anchient in technological lifespans today. I think USB should be the answer. A USB cable between head unit and amp with a D2A in the amp/DSP would make install soo much easier and allow both normal consumer and Hi-Res guys to both be happy.


----------



## ryanougrad (Jan 31, 2016)

Zippy said:


> So, if anyone is wondering about why I want MTP on a DSP. When I start up an app on my iPhone 6 that supports MTP and play a Hi-Res song connected to my 8000NEX, I can hear a difference in detail and overall sound quality. The 8000NEX 96kHz D2A chip is doing the conversion. I want that capability on a DSP. For years consumers and installers have asked for something other than RCA to run audio signal. RCA cables are large, subject to crosstalk, and anchient in technological lifespans today. I think USB should be the answer. A USB cable between head unit and amp with a D2A in the amp/DSP would make install soo much easier and allow both normal consumer and Hi-Res guys to both be happy.


I'd still prefer HU's to have SPDIF. USB is inherently noisy, as it was never created as an Audio delivery device. The problem is most of us now use our phones as an audio transport and streaming device. As such, I do agree that some sort of USB asynchronous chip built into a HU or DSP is a positive step. I would like both options I suppose.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> The only differance there is that you are doing a conversion to the complete file before it ever plays, versus an on the fly conversion you do to it with your DSP. It's the same as comparing a file you pre process in Audacity, and play through any format/device and a base file you process on your DSP.


The idea is to remove the asrc step from the chain. It's one less thing the dsp needs to do.


----------



## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

Somewhere in those nice AV head units there's an i2s signal that none of the manufacturers seem to want to part with. Which is why it is such a big hassle to get a digital source. What gives? Most DAC IC's have i2s out, which is easily converted to SPDIF. Why they don't give the option is beyond me.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

brother_c said:


> Somewhere in those nice AV head units there's an i2s signal that none of the manufacturers seem to want to part with. Which is why it is such a big hassle to get a digital source. What gives? Most DAC IC's have i2s out, which is easily converted to SPDIF. Why they don't give the option is beyond me.


Yea I actually bought 4 toslink pcb mounts for this reason. Was going to try my hand at the spdif mod.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> The idea is to remove the asrc step from the chain. It's one less thing the dsp needs to do.


The sample rate conversion step is an unavoidable step. It's just performed by a differant device (ie any digital source playing a cd format).


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> The sample rate conversion step is an unavoidable step. It's just performed by a differant device (ie any digital source playing a cd format).


No ****!?! Whether it's the computer or the dsp.. Duh. I'd rather it be the computer doing it


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

nineball76 said:


> No ****!?! Whether it's the computer or the dsp.. Duh. I'd rather it be the computer doing it


Sorry for that. What I'm trying to say is, given the ability to do so, I'd make any effort in taking the burden off of one piece of equipment if i can. No sense in making the dsp do the conversion of I have something more powerful to do it elsewhere beforehand. Likewise is the reason I prefer AIFF and wav over flac and Alac. Storage is cheap, and am uncompressed file is just easier on things. No uncompressing needed for playback. Whether it's audible or not, just how I was made.


----------



## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

> Yea I actually bought 4 toslink pcb mounts for this reason. Was going to try my hand at the spdif mod.


If only this was the a thread full of hacked HU's instead of 101 ways to give yourself a headache with an SPDIF transceiver dongle thing a ma jig. Interested in seeing what you come up with please post if you can.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

nineball76 said:


> Sorry for that. What I'm trying to say is, given the ability to do so, I'd make any effort in taking the burden off of one piece of equipment if i can. No sense in making the dsp do the conversion of I have something more powerful to do it elsewhere beforehand. Likewise is the reason I prefer AIFF and wav over flac and Alac. Storage is cheap, and am uncompressed file is just easier on things. No uncompressing needed for playback. Whether it's audible or not, just how I was made.


No problem. I'm the other way around. I prefer to have it done from the device that was designed with audio performance and quality in mind. Instead of from an OS that is doing it and multi tasking 20 other non audio related functions. FWIW the ASRC is a dedicate chip between the SPDIF input and the DSP. 

https://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P53.html
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/metronome.aspx
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/minidigi


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

brother_c said:


> Somewhere in those nice AV head units there's an i2s signal that none of the manufacturers seem to want to part with. Which is why it is such a big hassle to get a digital source. What gives? Most DAC IC's have i2s out, which is easily converted to SPDIF. Why they don't give the option is beyond me.


A quote from Andy W. about why they didn't add digital inputs on the MS-8 to the ms-8. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1236157-post3.html

"There are no digital inputs. Why? Because the real benefit of digital input is "no noise". The downside to providing one is that for 99 percent of users, it's more hassle than it's worth and will cause a great deal of confusion. Not too many people understand that the connector doesn't determine the signal. What I mean is, if we put a toslink input and a user hooks up a toslink output, it will only work is the signal is compatible. DVD-Audio isn't available on a digital output, DVD signals are 48k, PCM is 44.1, home-made digital audio can be anything. The signal from tuners is often only output on the RCAs. For the vast majority of users, there is no benefit and too much opportunity for disappointment. As far as noise goes, our inputs are differential, so the common mode noise rejection is super high. There won't be any noise."

Seems manufacturers don't want the support headaches from a feature hardly anyone will be using. Modern DSPs are a different story though, thanks to the proliferation of portable digital options out there lately. The only reason you see Alpine top tier headunits with digital out is that they have the full compatible H800 to connect it too.


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

I honestly understand why there aren't a lot consumer digital ouputs in vehicle sound equipment but I don't see why there shouldn't be a simple lightning cable dongle available that allows an iDevice to feed a DSP with at least 24/96 uncompressed audio. HDMI and USB both have plenty of bandwidth to spare at that bitrate.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Catalyx said:


> I honestly understand why there aren't a lot consumer digital ouputs in vehicle sound equipment but I don't see why there shouldn't be a simple lightning cable dongle available that allows an iDevice to feed a DSP with at least 24/96 uncompressed audio. HDMI and USB both have plenty of bandwidth to spare at that bitrate.


Probably so you're forced into using the airplay and airport things. Not sure what each do, as I've found work arounds for my uses.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Catalyx said:


> I honestly understand why there aren't a lot consumer digital ouputs in vehicle sound equipment but I don't see why there shouldn't be a simple lightning cable dongle available that allows an iDevice to feed a DSP with at least 24/96 uncompressed audio. HDMI and USB both have plenty of bandwidth to spare at that bitrate.


There is and it's been linked to and discussed in this thread..
Apple USB3 cable lets you charge and extract a digital signal over USB and quite a few different little USB to toslink convertors will work..
The Delock one I linked to works and is dirt cheap I have also tried my Meridian Director DAC and it doesn't recognise the iphone and I have a Starting Point Systems NOS DAC that works at home so I'm guessing if a dac or USB to toslink or spdif convertor is plug and play it will work but if you need to install drivers it wont?


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> There is and it's been linked to and discussed in this thread..
> Apple USB3 cable lets you charge and extract a digital signal over USB and quite a few different little USB to toslink convertors will work..
> The Delock one I linked to works and is dirt cheap I have also tried my Meridian Director DAC and it doesn't recognise the iphone and I have a Starting Point Systems NOS DAC that works at home so I'm guessing if a dac or USB to toslink or spdif convertor is plug and play it will work but if you need to install drivers it wont?


Does the Apple adapter support 24/96 output or is it limited to 24/48?


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Catalyx said:


> Does the Apple adapter support 24/96 output or is it limited to 24/48?


Unless they did some cockamammy *********t to it like they did with the hdmi av adapter, it should just be a USB pass through. The hdmi adapter had some chip in it doing something to the signal. SoC with 2gb ram converting the output.


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

nineball76 said:


> Unless they did some cockamammy *********t to it like they did with the hdmi av adapter, it should just be a USB pass through. The hdmi adapter had some chip in it doing something to the signal. SoC with 2gb ram converting the output.


I couldn't find any solid info on what it supports so I just ordered a used one from ebay to test and see.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Cool, slice it open and see if theres some kinda dac in it


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Found this. If you're good with digital coax, it's another option. 

Welcome to FSA~ Enjoy your New Idea~~~


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

I grabbed one of these to test with the lightning to usb 3 camera adapter since it's so cheap and still does 24/96:

Syba SD-AUD20101

This one also looks good, gives you coaxial output and even does 16/192 but I don't see much use for that bitrate:

PHIREE U2S

Here are a couple others of interest that do 24/192, one based on the CM6631 chip and the other on the XMOS U8:

SMAKN Hi-Fi CM6631

Makercell XMOS U8

Those look a bit unpolished so I will probably spend the extra $25 to get this one or another like it eventually:

SMSL X-USB

It's cheaper than the Peachtree X1 while supporting 32/384 and DSD.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Catalyx said:


> I grabbed one of these to test with the lightning to usb 3 camera adapter since it's so cheap and still does 24/96:
> 
> Syba SD-AUD20101
> 
> ...



That SMSL looks really good.. And as you said cheaper then the peach tree BUT the SMSL unit has a power button on the front, it would kind of suck if you had to press it to turn the unit for every power up


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

Timelessr1 said:


> That SMSL looks really good.. And as you said cheaper then the peach tree BUT the SMSL unit has a power button on the front, it would kind of suck if you had to press it to turn the unit for every power up


All the USB bus powered devices I have use mechanical power switches that stay on between startups so I think it probably does the same.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

I just ordered one of these to test from Massdrop.. As it's quite a saving..

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fire-s-audio-redkey-usb-coaxial-adapter


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I just ordered one of these to test from Massdrop.. As it's quite a saving..
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fire-s-audio-redkey-usb-coaxial-adapter


Looks decent. I assume you will try yours with a iOS device?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

EmptyKim said:


> Looks decent. I assume you will try yours with a iOS device?


Yes I have a 128gb iPhone6. Have already tested the Delock USB to optical convertor and it works but would prefer to run coaxial through my car...


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yes I have a 128gb iPhone6. Have already tested the Delock USB to optical convertor and it works but would prefer to run coaxial through my car...


Sweet. Let us know. I have a coax cable running to my MiniDSP in the back but don't have a source yet to utilize it. If this works with iOS I might have to give it a try.


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

The Apple lightning to usb camera adapter 3 (because of its ability to 'talk nice' to a lightning port and eliminate the 55 mah limitation of the current iOS) has made getting Hi Fi from your phone/tablet to your in-car DSP a pretty simple matter - just add your USB to S/PDIF converter of choice and you're done. To the OP, wish you luck, but don't think I'd want to fund your project. Here's why:

Currently using the #3 camera adapter and a Peachtree X1 to stream HD files in excellent SQ to a 3sixty.3. Very high SQ, IMHO. However, the #3 adapter and X1 are a $200 solution, plus USB cable - not everyone's gonna want to spend like that. As noted above, there are lots of less expensive USB to S/PDIF converters. And for under $100, you can go with the Apple lightning to HDMI converter and an HDMI break out box. It's a totally reliable and good sounding solution. I used this solution until the #3 adapter became available.


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

The $10 Syba SD-AUD20101 arrived yesterday and it works fine with the Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter which I got on ebay for $28 so I now have 24/96 optical out for $38 total.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Catalyx said:


> The $10 Syba SD-AUD20101 arrived yesterday and it works fine with the Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter which I got on ebay for $28 so I now have 24/96 optical out for $38 total.


Just a question... How do you know for sure you are getting 24/96 out to your DSP?


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

I haven't plugged it into my 6to8 yet but I did verify by running 24/96 digital into my computer audio interface and the iAudioGate app I use on the phone shows what bitrate is being output.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Just a heads up...I got a Peachtree X1 and my iPad mini won't allow the X1 to power up while using 2.1amps through the usb3 kit. My iPhone powers it up with 1amp going to the usb3, but the iPhone won't power it up by itself while plugged into the camera kit


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just a heads up...I got a Peachtree X1 and my iPad mini won't allow the X1 to power up while using 2.1amps through the usb3 kit. My iPhone powers it up with 1amp going to the usb3, but the iPhone won't power it up by itself while plugged into the camera kit



Will it work if you have a separate charge-back Lightning power source going back into the USB3 kit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just a heads up...I got a Peachtree X1 and my iPad mini won't allow the X1 to power up while using 2.1amps through the usb3 kit. My iPhone powers it up with 1amp going to the usb3, but the iPhone won't power it up by itself while plugged into the camera kit


I can't quite make out what you're saying here. 

Are you saying that when you plug in the USB3 camera adapter to the phone and connect it to the X1 without connecting power to the Lightning charging cable, the phone itself won't power up the X1? 

But, when you connect the USB3 camera adapter to a 2.1 amp power source through the Lightning charging port, it has enough power to charge the phone as well as turn on the X1?


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> I can't quite make out what you're saying here.
> 
> Are you saying that when you plug in the USB3 camera adapter to the phone and connect it to the X1 without connecting power to the Lightning charging cable, the phone itself won't power up the X1?
> 
> But, when you connect the USB3 camera adapter to a 2.1 amp power source through the Lightning charging port, it has enough power to charge the phone as well as turn on the X1?


That is exactly correct! And the phone will also work with the X1 with 1 amp power charging the phone! But the iPad mini (version 1) is not working with both 1amp or 2.1 amp powerd connected.


I have a 3amp USB powered charging system that is on the way, but I don't know if that would do the trick with the iPad mini


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs said:


> Will it work if you have a separate charge-back Lightning power source going back into the USB3 kit?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only the phone will work.. With both 1amp or 2.1 going into the Lightning charge port on the camera kit. The iPad mini doesn't have enough power to run the X1 with either 1amp or 2.1. It actually says it on the mini's screen when it's hooked up, something to the fact of... This unit doesn't have enough power to run the Peachtree X1


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

The good news is when using my iPhone5 and the X1 am definitely getting 24/96 out of it. Now I just need to get the mini to play nice with it!


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Timelessr1 said:


> Now I just need to get the mini to play nice with it!



As much as I like iOS I have to say, that's the real trick isn't it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs said:


> As much as I like iOS I have to say, that's the real trick isn't it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the truth! I also believe it's not the iPad's issue... I read somewhere that the camera kit might limit the amount of "charge amperage" it allows from the source.. This way power hungry 3 party vendor products don't drain the source units battery.


That's a plus of using the hdmi extractor.. It has its own power supply ;-)


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

Just tried an ipad instead of my iphone. It works fine - outputs digital music and charges the ipad. You do have to connect the #3 adapter to power via its lightning port. See post 99. Current IOS devices will not supply more than 55 mAH of power to a connected device. The X1 uses 500 mAH. So you have to have another power supply for the X1. The lightning port on the #3 adapter allows you to connect to another power source (your car, a battery, whatever) to feed power to both the X1 and the ipad (or iphone). It just works.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

jsolo53 said:


> Just tried an ipad instead of my iphone. It works fine - outputs digital music and charges the ipad. You do have to connect the #3 adapter to power via its lightning port. See post 99. Current IOS devices will not supply more than 55 mAH of power to a connected device. The X1 uses 500 mAH. So you have to have another power supply for the X1. The lightning port on the #3 adapter allows you to connect to another power source (your car, a battery, whatever) to feed power to both the X1 and the ipad (or iphone). It just works.


I was feeding the #3 power through the Lightning plug.. 2.1amps. And the X1 still wasn't getting enough power! But when feeding the #3 only 1amp of power the X1 would work with an iPhone!


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

Does your ipad have a lightning port? I'm new to ipads. What version of ios are you running?


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

jsolo53 said:


> Does your ipad have a lightning port? I'm new to ipads. What version of ios are you running?



Yes.. Mine has a lightning port.. It's an iPad mini1 I believe I'm on iOS 9.2 I haven't downloaded the newer ones due to I'm waiting on jail breaks


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

It's possible that it depends on the generation of the device. Apple is notorious for making major changes to the battery size and capacity from one generation to another. Do either of you have access to an iPad mini 2 or later with the most recent iOS update? That would seem to be the most likely device for vehicle use, at least to my mind.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> It's possible that it depends on the generation of the device. Apple is notorious for making major changes to the battery size and capacity from one generation to another. Do either of you have access to an iPad mini 2 or later with the most recgent iOS update? That would seem to be the most likely device for vehicle use, at least to my mind.


I just looked and I'm running iOS 9.3.2 and it's an iPad mini first gen


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok... Awesome news!! I located a scoshe cigarette lighter USB charger that puts out 2.4amps and sure enough.. My iPad runs with the X1!! So now when I get the 3amp hardwirwed USB plug I should be golden!


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Ok... Awesome news!! I located a scoshe cigarette lighter USB charger that puts out 2.4amps and sure enough.. My iPad runs with the X1!! So now when I get the 3amp hardwirwed USB plug I should be golden!


Check this out 

http://www.dx.com/p/dc-dc-6v-24v-to...-car-charger-module-black-249113#.V7Uuw0lOnqA


----------



## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

In terms of an iphone powerering a device over USB it will come down to the device reported power requirements under the USB protocol. Many USB dacs will report 500 milliamps of consumption where as they are closers to 40- 60 milliamps.

By putting a USB hub (camera kit) between an iphone and dac will often work as the phone thinks its connected to a hub rather than a down stream device (Dac) the iphone will supply power through to the hub and the hub to the dac.

More info on how USB works USB in a NutShell - Chapter 2 - Hardware. Check vbus section for explanation.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

nineball76 said:


> Check this out
> 
> DC-DC 6V~24V to 5V 3A Step-Down Module USB Car Charger Module - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


Thanks nineball! That is def the right piece I'd need. I ended up buying one of these.. 

https://powerwerx.com/usbbuddy-powerpole-usb-converter-device-charger


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Too late now but I would have gotten one of these. Low noise and over load/temp protection.

Robust 5V DC/DC converter, wide input range 5 volts output, 15 watts or 25 watts continuous output with wide temperature range, common ground










This one would be even better since it's ground isolated and made for automotive applications, but unfortunately it only outputs 2 amps.

http://www.powerstream.com/dda.htm


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm using a cigarette lighter adapter to power the #3 adapter and X1. This has been reliable and trouble free. And it does charge an ipad mini 4 and power an X1. Power problem solved.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Here's another option for Coaxial out...
Arcam Rdock Uni (with infra red remote for play, pause, skip forward and back) to DSP...








With this and using a Mini RC controller on my DSP I can program my steering wheel controls using a PAC Swix to control both the DSP controller and play, pause, Skip forward and back on my iPhone ...


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Thanks nineball! That is def the right piece I'd need. I ended up buying one of these..
> 
> https://powerwerx.com/usbbuddy-powerpole-usb-converter-device-charger


Just wanted to give an update in case anyone was trying to go this route...the USB buddy I linked to earlier does NOT put out enough amperage to run the Peachtree. I spoke to one of their techs who said on their test bence the unit was able to do 3.2 ... I find it hard to believe since it couldn't even power my application. So what I ended up doing was buying a socket adaptor, powered it with its own circuit and fuse plugged in the Scosche USB charger and I was good to go... Works perfect with an iPad mini gen1

And this wasn't how I left it... Don't worry all connections we cleaned up.. This pic was taken during testing ;-)


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Just wanted to give an update in case anyone was trying to go this route...the USB buddy I linked to earlier does NOT put out enough amperage to run the Peachtree. I spoke to one of their techs who said on their test bence the unit was able to do 3.2 ... I find it hard to believe since it couldn't even power my application. So what I ended up doing was buying a socket adaptor, powered it with its own circuit and fuse plugged in the Scosche USB charger and I was good to go... Works perfect with an iPad mini gen1
> 
> And this wasn't how I left it... Don't worry all connections we cleaned up.. This pic was taken during testing ;-)



yeah, not all usb power supplies are created equal. no matter what it says, 21., 2.4, 3...etc. my usb buddy seems inconsistent, and i've stopped using it.

i have a usb amp meter and i've never gotten the usb buddy to put out that much amperage. dead ipad pro, nope. i know it will vary with each device and what it needs at the time. but, a few other 2.4, 2.1 chargers have pulled that through the amp meter.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

It may be overkill but I'm going to be using one of these for power...

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/39072.pdf

All these little cigarette lighter USB adapters will be working at maximum and will create a lot of heat and after a while probably smoke...


----------



## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Catalyx said:


> I grabbed one of these to test with the lightning to usb 3 camera adapter since it's so cheap and still does 24/96:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






I ended up using Catalyx's option number one running my iPhone 6->lightning camera USB #3 adapter->Syba SD-AUD20101->optical -> Bit Ten D. This still allows me to charge my phone and the sound quality is pretty solid as far as I can tell. This is a hell of a cheap option. 

With that being said, I am curious as to what the downside of utilizing the hobo route for iOS to S/PDIF would be? Or should I say, what advantages would I have going forward with a more expensive route or utilizing a setup that requires more voltage? Obviously, I know a better DAC is going to give you better quality, but at what point would there be diminishing returns if I generally play music streaming at extreme quality from Spotify?


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Nickcoleman85 said:


> I ended up using Catalyx's option number one running my iPhone 6->lightning camera USB #3 adapter->Syba SD-AUD20101->optical -> Bit Ten D. This still allows me to charge my phone and the sound quality is pretty solid as far as I can tell. This is a hell of a cheap option.
> 
> With that being said, I am curious as to what the downside of utilizing the hobo route for iOS to S/PDIF would be? Or should I say, what advantages would I have going forward with a more expensive route or utilizing a setup that requires more voltage? Obviously, I know a better DAC is going to give you better quality, but at what point would there be diminishing returns if I generally play music streaming at extreme quality from Spotify?


When I used my iPhone as the source I didn't run into as many hurdles as I did trying to use te iPad. I was actually able to power the Peachtree using 1amp when using my iPhone as the source.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Nickcoleman85 said:


> I ended up using Catalyx's option number one running my iPhone 6->lightning camera USB #3 adapter->Syba SD-AUD20101->optical -> Bit Ten D. This still allows me to charge my phone and the sound quality is pretty solid as far as I can tell. This is a hell of a cheap option.
> 
> With that being said, I am curious as to what the downside of utilizing the hobo route for iOS to S/PDIF would be? Or should I say, what advantages would I have going forward with a more expensive route or utilizing a setup that requires more voltage? Obviously, I know a better DAC is going to give you better quality, but at what point would there be diminishing returns if I generally play music streaming at extreme quality from Spotify?


The Dac is in your Bit10D it's being passed the digital signal any more expensive option will end up at the same Dac but your wallet will be lighter...


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

Nickcoleman85 said:


> I ended up using Catalyx's option number one running my iPhone 6->lightning camera USB #3 adapter->Syba SD-AUD20101->optical -> Bit Ten D. This still allows me to charge my phone and the sound quality is pretty solid as far as I can tell. This is a hell of a cheap option.
> 
> With that being said, I am curious as to what the downside of utilizing the hobo route for iOS to S/PDIF would be? Or should I say, what advantages would I have going forward with a more expensive route or utilizing a setup that requires more voltage? Obviously, I know a better DAC is going to give you better quality, but at what point would there be diminishing returns if I generally play music streaming at extreme quality from Spotify?


Downside: No Asynchronous, no reclocking, jitter. But with your chosen source, I'd say you're at the point of diminishing returns. IMHO there's no need to upgrade your converter until you go lossless.


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> When I used my iPhone as the source I didn't run into as many hurdles as I did trying to use te iPad. I was actually able to power the Peachtree using 1amp when using my iPhone as the source.


with that cheapy convertor does it give you the warning that it won't work when power is off? does it kill the battery when not in use but connected? i'm using a turtle beach sound card, and it give the warning, and it's also killing the battery slowly over night. 

my guess is if i didn't drive my car for 3 days, the ipad would be dead from starting at 100%. that's the one drawback i see with the camera kit option. at least with the turtle beach unit.


----------



## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

jsolo53 said:


> Downside: No Asynchronous, no reclocking, jitter. But with your chosen source, I'd say you're at the point of diminishing returns. IMHO there's no need to upgrade your converter until you go lossless.


Thanks for the clarification guys. There is one more thing that I am trying to pin down. As I understand it, the DAC in the iPhone mic jack isn't that bad, so is there even an advantage to utilizing the peasant DAC that I am currently using over RCA inputs? Again, considering that the source is Spotify extreme(allegedly ~320 kbps).


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

Nickcoleman85 said:


> Thanks for the clarification guys. There is one more thing that I am trying to pin down. As I understand it, the DAC in the iPhone mic jack isn't that bad, so is there even an advantage to utilizing the peasant DAC that I am currently using over RCA inputs? Again, considering that the source is Spotify extreme(allegedly ~320 kbps).


Oh yeah - the advantage is fewer d to a and a to d conversions. You have a Bit10 which supposedly has a pretty good sounding DAC. Of the three DAC's that could be in your signal path, it's got to be the best sounding. So you want to be using it, which you are.

Every time you convert from A to D or from D to A the SQ gets degraded. Every time. So fewer is better when it comes to digital/analog conversion.

Using the camera adapter 3 via the lightning connector gives a digital music stream to your little black box. Using the optical out on the little box also gives a digital music stream for your Bit10. The only conversion happening in the little box is from USB digital to S/PDIF digital. No DAC has messed with your music before it gets to the good one in your DSP. And that's the way it should be. You've optimized what you've got. Enjoy it until you want to up your SQ.


----------



## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks. That really clears things up.

I hope this isn't off topic, but have any of you guys utilized WALTR to add FLAC recordings to your iOS device? It's a drag and drop application that allows you to overcome some of the obstacles from iTunes in adding non-approved media to your iDevice. I am definitely going to start using it more often.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

jtaudioacc said:


> with that cheapy convertor does it give you the warning that it won't work when power is off? does it kill the battery when not in use but connected? i'm using a turtle beach sound card, and it give the warning, and it's also killing the battery slowly over night.
> 
> my guess is if i didn't drive my car for 3 days, the ipad would be dead from starting at 100%. that's the one drawback i see with the camera kit option. at least with the turtle beach unit.



Yes.. Using the USB buddy I get the power warning on the iPad... When I use the Scosche revolt charger or some name like that it works perfect... Except I originally had 2 led headrests monitors and a small 3 inch monitor powering up down stream on the same circuit the USB was getting power on. The second I pushed the switch to activate all the monitors, I got the power warning on the iPad. Seems I was just over the amperage draw, so I ran a dedicated circuit to the USB power.

Now my experience is when the car shuts off, power is off at the USB, I get the message that the iPad doesn't have enough power for the Peachtree , the music stops playing. I haven't left the iPad in over night yet to see if it draws power.. But I'm assuming it doesn't bc it doesn't have enough power by itself to power the Peachtree.


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Yes.. Using the USB buddy I get the power warning on the iPad... When I use the Scosche revolt charger or some name like that it works perfect... Except I originally had 2 led headrests monitors and a small 3 inch monitor powering up down stream on the same circuit the USB was getting power on. The second I pushed the switch to activate all the monitors, I got the power warning on the iPad. Seems I was just over the amperage draw, so I ran a dedicated circuit to the USB power.
> 
> Now my experience is when the car shuts off, power is off at the USB, I get the message that the iPad doesn't have enough power for the Peachtree , the music stops playing. I haven't left the iPad in over night yet to see if it draws power.. But I'm assuming it doesn't bc it doesn't have enough power by itself to power the Peachtree.



mine definitely uses some power. i'm not sure if maybe it keep trying, or what. i did think that i saw the warning on after i thought the ipad went to sleep. could be that it wakes up trying to power and the screen being on repeatedly is what is draining the battery.

seems like it took about 15% last night. i need to figure out if the screen is waking up cause i don't want the screen to attract attention if i'm parked somewhere. other than that issue, it seems to work great.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Got the Firestone Audio Redkey from Massdrop this morning..

Welcome to FSA~ Enjoy your New Idea~~~

Tested and it works for anyone who would prefer a coaxial cable to optical..
It also lets me change volume with my iPhone so I guess you could control your functions on your phone or iPad including volume with a Satechi Bluetooth media button..


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

yanked this out of my car today.










and went with old faithful.











IF, you leave the USB camera kit installed, with the turtle beach, it kills the battery on the ipad. i believe it's always warning you that there's not enough power to power the sound card. while doing so, the screen is turning on each time. 

the other sound card next to it, doesn't pause when power is taken away. so that's lame. plus, the second time i went to put my ipad in after charging it, it made some nasty digital noises and there wasn't any audio.

so, after removing my i20, i finally just went with the hdmi option Mrs.Papasin figured out a while ago.

i have bluetooth if i ever want to watch a video.

so, as far as i can tell, if you leave your device in the car, and connected, forget using the usb camera kit. if you don't do that, then i think it's a very simple and good solution.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

jtaudioacc said:


> yanked this out of my car today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So far the Peachtree has been working for me... But I do remove the iPad every time. I should just leave it plugged in for a day to see what happens to the battery.

I'm assuming you using the apple hdmi adaptor plug... What are you using to put a charge into it, to charge the iPad? I remember you saying you weren't thrilled with the USB buddy either


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> So far the Peachtree has been working for me... But I do remove the iPad every time. I should just leave it plugged in for a day to see what happens to the battery.
> 
> I'm assuming you using the apple hdmi adaptor plug... What are you using to put a charge into it, to charge the iPad? I remember you saying you weren't thrilled with the USB buddy either


i have some triple usb cig power adapter hardwired powering both the ipad/hdmi thing and the hdmi adapter. i just made a simple usb to the power plug of the hdmi box and plugged it in. made it simple and fast swap.


----------



## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Timelessr1 said:


> I'm assuming you using the apple hdmi adaptor plug... What are you using to put a charge into it, to charge the iPad? I remember you saying you weren't thrilled with the USB buddy either



USB buddy in MrsPapasin's Smart has been reliable with the HDMI plug for nearly two years.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

I guess since the hdmi converter has its own power supply, the USB buddy just has to supply power to the iPad.. Which would take anywhere from 1amp to 3 amps fine. But according to my testing it was under 2.4amps.. How much under I couldn't say for sure...

I'm just trying to figure out which route I want to take in my commuter car. I don't need the expense of the Peachtree, and wiring expense in that car..


And thanks for the reply guys!


----------



## ugnlol (Apr 14, 2010)

For those that have problems powering their devices, try other cables. There are big differences between cables and how many amps/watt they are capable of delivering.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Well I left my iPad plugged in all night to the Peachtree and when I went to get it this morning the iPad battery was dead. Bummer. Oh well... I do take te iPad everyday just for security purposes... Sucks to know though if i do forget it plugged in, that it'll be drained by morning


----------



## Ride154 (May 14, 2016)

Hi Guys,
Does anyone know if it's now easier to get a digital signal out of the fresh iphone 7?
They dropped the 3,5 mm jack and i understand they include an adapter of some sorts

Greetings Menno


----------



## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

iPhone 7 comes with lightning to 3.5 mm RCA adaptor but you can't charge the phone as well. 

I'll go lightning hdmi adaptor and then into another hdmi to composite video with RCA audio adaptor .

I would go digital but my dsp only has one digital input which is occupied by a Raspberry PI running a media centre . Haven't managed to sort AirPlay with it.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Timelessr1 said:


> Well I left my iPad plugged in all night to the Peachtree and when I went to get it this morning the iPad battery was dead. Bummer. Oh well... I do take te iPad everyday just for security purposes... Sucks to know though if i do forget it plugged in, that it'll be drained by morning


Was that with or without the Lightning power cable plugged into the adapter for charging?


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Timelessr1 said:


> Well I left my iPad plugged in all night to the Peachtree and when I went to get it this morning the iPad battery was dead. Bummer. Oh well... I do take te iPad everyday just for security purposes... Sucks to know though if i do forget it plugged in, that it'll be drained by morning


that's a bummer, but expected. i think if any usb sound card that gives the power error will kill the battery. overnight, roughly 8-10 hours, the turtle beach killed about 30%. do that a couple days in a row and it's down to nothing.


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

NealfromNZ said:


> iPhone 7 comes with lightning to 3.5 mm RCA adaptor but you can't charge the phone as well.
> 
> I'll go lightning hdmi adaptor and then into another hdmi to composite video with RCA audio adaptor .
> 
> I would go digital but my dsp only has one digital input which is occupied by a Raspberry PI running a media centre . Haven't managed to sort AirPlay with it.


how about just a cheap toslink switcher?


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> Was that with or without the Lightning power cable plugged into the adapter for charging?



That was with it plugged in. It's always plugged in but no power going through it when the car is off. All my wiring is hidden... I use a slider for my iPad , so all the power connections are behind the dash


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

jtaudioacc said:


> that's a bummer, but expected. i think if any usb sound card that gives the power error will kill the battery. overnight, roughly 8-10 hours, the turtle beach killed about 30%. do that a couple days in a row and it's down to nothing.


I agree... And the DACs that don't give the power warnings seem to keep on playing when you turn the car off bc they are getting enough amperage through the iPad.

I think you are right..the hdmi route might be the most user friendly with charging and power issues with the iPads. Do you know what but rate the hdmi allows through? Bc I'm enjoying my 24/96 Flac files through my Peachtree ;-)


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok. I figured that was the case, I just wanted to make sure. So, the only issue there is leaving ur iPad in the car overnight drains the iPad battery. Seems like an easily avoidable issue.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> Ok. I figured that was the case, I just wanted to make sure. So, the only issue there is leaving ur iPad in the car overnight drains the iPad battery. Seems like an easily avoidable issue.


I agree... And 99% of the time I remove the iPad when I leave the truck... I'm just going to be bitching that one time I forgot ;-)


----------



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I have the gear for both the USB DAC and the HDMI audio de-embeder. 

I used the HDMI method for awhile and both the phone and HDMI de-embedder were powered by the same USB hub. When I shut off the USB hub, it paused the music on my phone. To me that's a compelling reason to go the HDMI route instead of the USB DAC.


----------



## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

I just want something I can plug into my lightning port on my iphone that will charge the phone while sending an optical signal to my bit one so I can play my premium spotify.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Doc Fluty said:


> I just want something I can plug into my lightning port on my iphone that will charge the phone while sending an optical signal to my bit one so I can play my premium spotify.


I know.. Such a simple thing, one would think.


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

Doc Fluty said:


> I just want something I can plug into my lightning port on my iphone that will charge the phone while sending an optical signal to my bit one so I can play my premium spotify.


This. Except I'd like coax s/pdif out too.


----------



## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> I just want something I can plug into my lightning port on my iphone that will charge the phone while sending an optical signal to my bit one so I can play my premium spotify.




Just use the Apple Lighting USB camera adapter 3 with SYBA USB Optical SPDIF Output ( SD-AUD20101). It's the cheap hobo route, but it works. I've been using it on my PXA-DH800 with good success. I also mostly stream on Spotify as well. My understanding is that it's fine to use that combo if you you are only using that as the source.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Doc Fluty said:


> I just want something I can plug into my lightning port on my iphone that will charge the phone while sending an optical signal to my bit one so I can play my premium spotify.


That's what we all want. Unfortunately, at the moment nothing that elegant and simple exists. You have to cobble together several adapters and extractors to make it work.


----------



## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Just to say that I finally installed my peachtree, in replacement of the istreamer.
I wasn't convinced when I quickly tried before, always had some troubles with connections.
But I cleaned my phone port and now it's reliable like the streamer.

So far the sound is different, it seems cleaner, lighter.
Not that I instantly prefered it, but it's clearly different.
Almost if there was a slight ascending slope on the whole spectrum, I'll have to adjust my tune (might have been the streamer who modified the FR).

Noise is lower too, that I appreciate, with my recent gain adjustment (unrelated) it's now perfect.


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

Elgrosso said:


> Just to say that I finally installed my peachtree, in replacement of the istreamer.
> I wasn't convinced when I quickly tried before, always had some troubles with connections.
> But I cleaned my phone port and now it's reliable like the streamer.
> 
> ...


Was the iStreamer putting out digital? If so, there should be almost no discernible difference between that and the Peachtree besides some possible subtle jitter.


----------



## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Nope analog out. Otherwise I would have kept it.
Might have been the rca, or anything else I agree.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

IStreamer is an ios dac, not a converter. Takes the digital from the lightning, gives you a really clean rca output. Much cleaner than the headphone out. Line level


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

Does anybody have experience with the ifi nano iDSD? It looks like it would do what we are looking for also by using lightning to USB-B to ifi to spdif coax.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

Velozity said:


> Does anybody have experience with the ifi nano iDSD? It looks like it would do what we are looking for also by using lightning to USB-B to ifi to spdif coax.


I guess it would work but it's not cheap !!
The Firestone Audio Redkey will do what you want for a lot less money..


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I guess it would work but it's not cheap !!
> The Firestone Audio Redkey will do what you want for a lot less money..


Yeah I've been trying to find out where to get a RedKey. Firestone hasn't returned my email.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Velozity said:


> Yeah I've been trying to find out where to get a RedKey. Firestone hasn't returned my email.


I think Massdrop is working on another group buy for them.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

I got mine from Massdrop.. cost me $24.99US delivered to the UK..
Keep an eye on their site and register interest as they might run the deal again...


----------



## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

Been using one of the new lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapters into my dsp via rca input. Must say that its noise free and sounds quite good. No more data noise or buzzes that I'd get randomly on the old iPhone 6.

Sound stage isn't half bad either.


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

I ended up going with the ifi Nano iDSD. It may be overkill but it sounds unbelievably good does the job perfectly. Only cost me a few bucks more than a Peachtree X1 and it doubles as a portable headphone dac/amp if I ever wanted.


----------



## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Interesting, looks smaller than I thought, and it has a knob, will you use it? Well maybe not since rca are in front too.
Is it a c-dsp remote on the pic? Where will you put it?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah that iFi unit coax into a DSP Pro would be a nice combo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

giving this another try. my hdmi box kept screwing up and wasn't connecting. this time, i added a usb extension and a relay. the relay cuts the power to the turtle beach usb soundcard when the key is off. so, hopefully not ipad battery drain. everything seems to work great. i'll have to wait overnight to see if there's any battery drain. but, so far, after a few hours, no drain. i expect it to be fine...hopefully.


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

Elgrosso said:


> Interesting, looks smaller than I thought, and it has a knob, will you use it? Well maybe not since rca are in front too.
> Is it a c-dsp remote on the pic? Where will you put it?



No I'm not using the knob on the iFi. The unit is buried in the dash. Yes that is a C-DSP remote. I extended the potentiometer off the board and extended new switches for the presets. Then I used light pipes to "port" the blue LEDs on the original switches to a new panel I fabbed for my dash. I'll upload these pics and more to my build log soon.


----------



## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Wow well done!


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Might be a stupid question, but what are you guys using for the remote turn on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

aholland1198 said:


> Might be a stupid question, but what are you guys using for the remote turn on?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


for myself, i use an Alpine H800. Accessory power to it, then turn on output to the amps. i'm sure most are just using accessory.


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks JT. I figured as much, but you never know. 

So, there seems to be a handful of solutions here. Is there one that will allow you to use the phone as volume control? I have a helix pro with the old controller, but just wondering what is possible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Got the Firestone Audio Redkey from Massdrop this morning..
> 
> Welcome to FSA~ Enjoy your New Idea~~~
> 
> ...


This is available again. 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fire-s-audio-redkey-usb-coaxial-adapter


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I just ordered one of these to test from Massdrop.. As it's quite a saving..
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fire-s-audio-redkey-usb-coaxial-adapter


I received my Firestone Audio Redkey about a week ago. Took me a few days to actually try it out. Been driving around the last few days with it. It sounds great but I might go back to OEM headunit as I like steering wheel controls. 

Current signal path:

iPhone 7+ -> Apple USB 3 Camera Kit -> Firestone Audio Redkey -> MiniDSP C-DSP

Interesting thing with the digital out. I thought I would lose the volume functionality on the iPhone, but it still works. I thought it wouldn't work in the digital domain.


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

EmptyKim said:


> I received my Firestone Audio Redkey about a week ago. Took me a few days to actually try it out. Been driving around the last few days with it. It sounds great but I might go back to OEM headunit as I like steering wheel controls.
> 
> Current signal path:
> 
> ...


It doesn't. Apple is forcing d2a at the device now. I have a SMSL USB-X and I could not get better than 48 kHz/16 bit out of a 192 kHz/24 bit file on the 7. Same from my iPad mini retina. My old unpatched iPhone 4 on the old camera kit will play the full 192/24 on my SMSL. Apple did something in the software to support their wireless headphones would be my bet why.


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

Zippy said:


> It doesn't. Apple is forcing d2a at the device now. I have a SMSL USB-X and I could not get better than 48 kHz/16 bit out of a 192 kHz/24 bit file on the 7. Same from my iPad mini retina. My old unpatched iPhone 4 on the old camera kit will play the full 192/24 on my SMSL. Apple did something in the software to support their wireless headphones would be my bet why.



Well damn. Do you know which iOS made this change? I have an old iPhone 5 with iOS 7 on it still.


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

EmptyKim said:


> Well damn. Do you know which iOS made this change? I have an old iPhone 5 with iOS 7 on it still.


That I do not know. I can say for certain that my 4 hasn't been patched in years and streams full quality.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

EmptyKim said:


> I received my Firestone Audio Redkey about a week ago. Took me a few days to actually try it out. Been driving around the last few days with it. It sounds great but I might go back to OEM headunit as I like steering wheel controls.


Nav-TV sells a piece that will let you control your iDevice through steering wheel audio controls. It interfaces with a regular steering wheel control unit, like the Metra one. Works really well.


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

i have a turtle beach sound card and some cheapo sound card that i believe is in this thread somewhere. the turtle beach has no volume control but the other does. similar to the pure i20, you could still control volume.


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

Zippy said:


> It doesn't. Apple is forcing d2a at the device now. I have a SMSL USB-X and I could not get better than 48 kHz/16 bit out of a 192 kHz/24 bit file on the 7. Same from my iPad mini retina. My old unpatched iPhone 4 on the old camera kit will play the full 192/24 on my SMSL. Apple did something in the software to support their wireless headphones would be my bet why.





Are you sure about that? Is this based on your experience or do you have a source? My Google search hasn't come up with anything to back this up. If digital audio is no longer available through the lightning port I would think there would be quite a stir. Plus, your statement seems contradictory. If the device is forcing DAC, then how are you still getting a 16-bit/48kHz _digital_ signal out of it?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Zippy said:


> It doesn't. Apple is forcing d2a at the device now. I have a SMSL USB-X and I could not get better than 48 kHz/16 bit out of a 192 kHz/24 bit file on the 7. Same from my iPad mini retina. My old unpatched iPhone 4 on the old camera kit will play the full 192/24 on my SMSL. Apple did something in the software to support their wireless headphones would be my bet why.


Yep.. I'm going to be taking another look at the Pixel I think.. I'm kinda done with Apples nonchalant obsessive media control and undisclosed manipulation. I can understand OS control.. That's all well and dandy. If their darn OS just didn't work so well, plus their ability somehow to shed off all the carrier bloatware. And there's only one skin.. Apple's skin. While a bit handcuffed, there is something to be said for standardization there.


----------



## Ride154 (May 14, 2016)

Hi Guys,

Did any of you had a look at the Bluekey?
BlueKey


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Did you look at the price of the Bluekey? I paid $30 for my Redkey. I couldn't justify the extra $130.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

So I finally hooked up the AV Adapter and HDMI/Toslink converter. After a day or two of actual use, It rocks. Ain't bad at all. However it's time. Going 99RS because I know where there's a spare in need of a new home and they're lovely. And because I can't afford the Sony. LOL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

I am also looking for a solution being halfway through my build. Have wasted a bit of money to be honest, started as a little upgrade and has now gone beyond!!! Currently running an I simple jamlink, but the dac seems to be rubbish as audiocontrol app has picked up a low sample rate. Have just bought a bit one which is on the way, but wondering whether to buy an hrt istreamer, or try and go to slink directly in (in the best possible way) so I can go apple camera kit, but then which USB to toslink, as there are many Ebay cheapos. On the other hand would a cheapo be ok as I am not trying to convert the signal as such, just the connection


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

I've got the FSA RedKey and Phiree U2S I'll part with. I'm going to stick with the ifi Nano iDSD. In fact I may even upgrade to the Micro iLink.


----------



## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Ahhhh snap!!!! Understood... been looking at the ilink for a minute.


----------



## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Got the ilink in and I love it. It's very home audio sounding for lack of better terms. The stage became more defined and bass became more transparent... but I lost some of the meat of my vocals... over all I like it better than amas via Bluetooth and through my alpine via optical out... the hole point of this was to replace my alpine with has digital output for everything but I preferred the sound of my c90 via optical output...


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Evening chaps, I keep reading you are all having problems with charging, have a look at the belkin audio rockstar, this will sort most problems I believe. It's actually on the apple uk website.

I am still waiting on a few bits, but will be going iPad mini2-apple av-hdmi-cheapo extractor-toslink-bit one.

Unfortunately reading previous threads I do like YouTube, so this may be an issue if it knocks the screen off???

Back to the drawing board or do you think I will be ok?


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

Question for everyone using the Firestone Redkey are you having a problem with the battery going dead overnight with it connected to a IPad.


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

Hammer1 said:


> Question for everyone using the Firestone Redkey are you having a problem with the battery going dead overnight with it connected to a IPad.


I don't leave my iPhone connected when I turn the car off. It does give me a notification when I turn off the engine that the accessory doesn't have enough power. 

BTW: selling my Redkey in classifieds if anyone wants to try it.


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

Just installed a wifi to toslink converter today and so far it works great. I was using the Apple digital av adapter to a hdmi converter but you lose some video with it. The wifi unit gives me all functions of the IPad. And I think it sounds better


----------



## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

FWIW, I've been rocking iPhone>AirPlay>AirPortExpress>optical>H800 for over a year now, and it works awesome. Minor issue is you have to choose AirPlay as the target anytime you want to listen... Minor inconvenience for the simplicity (and lack of multiple conversion operations).

I wasn't happy with the Internet's solution of plugging the Express into a 12V lighter socket charger, so I built a board with a 3.3V voltage regulator and some capacitors/relay to keep it active for 10-15 minutes after the van's shut off. Gets around the AirPort's need to go through a 60 second boot every time the power's cut.


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

I have not had to choose airplay each time with this converter.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Good to see people are still discussing this.

So I'll come clean here. I work for one of the Big 5. My group has several engineers who are responsible for the HU in your ***** or ***** Although many outside companies build units for us the actual design and engineering goes on inside. That's all I can say about my day job. Sorry. 

The original idea was for this to be a side project. The issue is that in order to sell this you have to pay Apple a liscensing fee. A very BIG fee that would make a seemingly simple device expensive for a small group of engineers. I still believe after experimenting with an iPad and several home based transports (in the garage of course) and the Mosconi 6to8v8 and DSP 1.8 that a dedicated 12V transport that can output SPDIF/Coaxial audio from an iOS device is a huge hole in the market just waiting to be filled. Add in steering wheel controls and the ability to interface with your DSP master volume and you'd have a winner.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Hammer1 said:


> Just installed a wifi to toslink converter today and so far it works great. I was using the Apple digital av adapter to a hdmi converter but you lose some video with it. The wifi unit gives me all functions of the IPad. And I think it sounds better


If you don't mind me asking, what is the Brand and Model # of the WiFi-to-Toslink Converter that you are using?

Link?

TIA


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

bbfoto said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what is the Brand and Model # of the WiFi-to-Toslink Converter that you are using?
> 
> Link?
> 
> TIA


I bought a made in China unit I found on Ebay to try and so far it works great. Connects quickly and better than my Apple digital A/V to hdmi converter setup.

Here is a link to it
Audio Receiver music streaming receiver for iOS & Android Airmusic DLNA AirPlay | eBay


----------



## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Subscribed


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

All right, so after a lot of unanswered emails and dismissive phone calls I finally have someone who is able to manufacture this and is willing to listen to those of us that would like to see a product like this come to fruition. BUT its going to take more than just 30 people. I'm guessing it needs to be a couple hundred. So let's organize this.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hextall 27 said:


> All right, so after a lot of unanswered emails and dismissive phone calls I finally have someone who is able to manufacture this and is willing to listen to those of us that would like to see a product like this come to fruition. BUT its going to take more than just 30 people. I'm guessing it needs to be a couple hundred. So let's organize this.


Organization, that's what I like to hear. 

First step- You need to provide us with specs. What will it do, what it will not do, etc. Is this just a Lightning to optical adapter? Is there an option for a digital coax out instead of optical? What sample rate and bit depth signal will it output? Will it allow charging of the iDevice at the same time? 

Second- Give us at least a rough idea of the potential cost landed to our doorstep. If this is a $200 gizmo, I'm still in. If we're over $300, I'm out. 

Third- Put together a Kickstarter/Gofundme page for the concept and start advertising it here and on other sites. Hit up other car audio centric media outlets, like certain YouTube posters, and see if you can get them to talk about it on their channels and drive more interest in the project. If you limit the scope of this project to just DIYMA, it is guaranteed to never come to fruition.


----------



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Hextall 27 said:


> All right, so after a lot of unanswered emails and dismissive phone calls I finally have someone who is able to manufacture this and is willing to listen to those of us that would like to see a product like this come to fruition. BUT its going to take more than just 30 people. I'm guessing it needs to be a couple hundred. So let's organize this.


If it can be made to run off a car 12v electrical system, and a 12v wall wart, then that'll REALLY open up the market.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

^Yes, if you can make this in a form factor that will work for both car & home, that would be ideal. That will more than double your market.

I think it would be best if it operated off of 5VDC @ 1 Amp or less with both micro-USB & Lightning connector jacks so it could be used with both home and car cigarette lighter chargers that nearly everyone already has.

I'm interested. As mentioned, post the specs. Thanks.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Guys, I think you misunderstood me, We at work aren't going to engineer this, a well known company who's products I see some of you using is interested in the feasibility of producing this.


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hextall 27 said:


> Guys, I think you misunderstood me, We at work aren't going to engineer this, a well known company who's products I see some of you using is interested in the feasibility of producing this.


Ok, no big deal. We still need more information to know whether or not we would actually be interested. If someone can't even tell us what it will or won't do as far as charging goes, there's not likely to be much serious interest. 

More info put out will yield more info put back in.


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

I think a box that does the following would be great:

* 12V
* Takes a 'remote' input to trigger the device to turn on
* charges iPhone
* USB input
* Coax digital output (optical cables are too fragile)


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Attached is the obviously edited email from one of the company's technology development engineers 

Features I plan to ask for:

-dedicated 12V device, designed primarily for car audio. Of course a wall wart would also be capable of powering the device
-12V remote to turn for ease of integration
-USB input for use with Apple Lightning and legacy 30 pin cable
-charging for iPhone, iPod, and iPad
-S/PDIF output via RCA Coaxial and Toslink optical for use with all DSPs
-3.5mm TRS plug for adaptation of aftermarket steering wheel control interfaces

NO DAC
NO VOLUME CONTROL CIRCUIT


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

I'm using the Ifi Audio iLink and Apple USB 3.0 lightning adapter to connect my iPad mini directly to digital coax on my Helix DSP Pro. Works perfect so far. (Also has digital optical out as well)


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Can't get this out of my head and am considering building one.

I have solved my issue of going iPad to bit one optically like so


iPad-apple camera kit- phiree u2s-bit one

The one modification I made was to cut the USB lead open in between camera kit and phiree, and break the power wire via a relay to prevent phiree being constantly on.
I will probably mod the camera adapter the same way as it does drag the iPad battery down when not using the car.
Forgot to add I have the newer camera adapter with the charge port which is fed by a 2.1a belkin 12v charger.

So, supposing I was to combine all these components in a sexy little aluminium project box similar to an istreamer, who would buy it?

I would have a female USB on one end, 3 wires coming out (or a little screw type connector like a bit one) red black and blue (self explanatory)
The other end would have spdif and coax

I reckon I can do this for around about £120 cost, then there is the issue of my profit.

It's so flipping easy, it's kind of bugging me it does not yet exist


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Oh and I forgot to add, I live in rip off Britain, the cost for me to build could potentially be greatly reduced, I am being lazy as far as sourcing components goes, and also buying these as a plain old consumer.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

I understand there are other solutions out there but none of them is what I am proposing. ALL of them have some type of drawback to them. See above for the feature list as well the email sent to me by the person in charge of development. 
I've been too busy at work to follow up but now that I have some time I need to provide him with further information. I am however not in marketing, if someone here has marketing experience and wants to see this manufactured please chime in.
I'm going to reach out to Doug at Soundman as well, he has a large YouTube audience and specializes in iPad integration.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Here's another option for Coaxial out...
> Arcam Rdock Uni (with infra red remote for play, pause, skip forward and back) to DSP...
> 
> 
> ...





Hextall 27 said:


> Good to see people are still discussing this.
> 
> So I'll come clean here. I work for one of the Big 5. My group has several engineers who are responsible for the HU in your ***** or ***** Although many outside companies build units for us the actual design and engineering goes on inside. That's all I can say about my day job. Sorry.
> 
> The original idea was for this to be a side project. The issue is that in order to sell this you have to pay Apple a liscensing fee. A very BIG fee that would make a seemingly simple device expensive for a small group of engineers. I still believe after experimenting with an iPad and several home based transports (in the garage of course) and the Mosconi 6to8v8 and DSP 1.8 that a dedicated 12V transport that can output SPDIF/Coaxial audio from an iOS device is a huge hole in the market just waiting to be filled. Add in steering wheel controls and the ability to interface with your DSP master volume and you'd have a winner.


I already pretty much figured this out see post 123


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Arcam is another home audio based, discontinued solution unfortunately.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

ifi audio iLink will cleanly convert USB audio signal to digital coax or optical. Compatible with iPad via newest USB 3.0 Camera Lighting adapter.

And for the audiophiles wanting to go the extra mile, I started to also use the ifi audio Micro iUSB 3.0. It is directly compatible with car power DC at 12 volt. 

Clean pure USB to Digital (coax or optical):

iPad or iPhone > Lightining USB 3.0 Camera adapter > iFi micro iUSB 3.0 > iFi iLink > digital input of car audio system

Yes its pricey. But it is audiophile grade equipment. Hunt and you may find one used. I found my iLink second hand.

I went OCD with getting the cleanest signal possible from my iOS devices.

I get digital signal up to 24/192 and the capability to charge my device and run everything off of car's power system.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

iFi Micro looks like a nice piece, but it's over $459 new, requires you to fabricate a switchable. power supply and uses the CCK harness that's is larger than a simple lightning cable and still doesn't have steering wheels control capabilities. Which is the whole point of this device DEDICATED 12V solution.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

I hear you completely! When that product is made, it will fill a giant void in the market. I searched and searched but it's not out there. 

Only reason I can assume this is so, is because of Apple's position with CarPlay. Apple has always been about control. They don't want someone to use their tablet as a center dash and cause an accident. They want people to use "car friendly" (painfully limited) CarPlay. 

I have a newer CarPlay OEM head unit in a Honda Civic that also controls several car functions/settings. Unfortunately it has an stupid built DSP tuned to stock speakers that can't be disabled. So I was stuck with it.

But I still wanted a SQ setup from a clean source. 

After all my searching an iPad mini connected to the digital in on a Helix DSP Pro is a solid method. 

Just wanted to share my route of doing so.

The ifi unit I mentioned can accept a standard DC output from cigarette lighter. (You can achieve stealthier installs directly to car battery).

I spent a lot of $ (in the same justification of someone spending on an Alpine F1, P99RS, or Sony RSX-GS9 for a clean source). I did not enjoy doing so. Patiently saving gave me more time than I prefered to look and research for something to do what you ask. I had no success.

Build that product and people will buy. I'm a supporter!!

I just feel any 12 volt product like that will ultimately by Apple's requirement somehow need to be tied to CarPlay. Which may entail high licensing costs and maybe the reason no one has done it yet?


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

How did you you handle the power supply? Remote on/off?

I hadn't seen this new Apple CCK. Running that into a Helix DSP.2 may be a workable solution for now.
You are right about CarPlay.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Yep! I too believe running the new CCK directly into newer USB HEC module for the Helix DSP mk2 is an awesome idea!

I bought my Helix DSP Pro mk1 a couple months too soon


For now I'm using simple cigarette to DC adapter from Amazon to power the iFi. So whenever the car is on or in accessory mode, the cigarette lighter adapter turns on iFi unit (which also charges iPad). Next step is to get it connected directly to car battery system via some DC adapter. It can run safely in range of 5-13.5 volts.

My Helix and amps use their standard included remote on features connected to an isolated secondary battery in the trunk.


----------



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Beastbike said:


> Can't get this out of my head and am considering building one.
> 
> I have solved my issue of going iPad to bit one optically like so
> 
> ...


I don;t know about oversea shipping, but StarTech makes USB hubs that work great in cars and will run off your ACC circuit. I have one in my Bronco and it works great, powers my iPhone, audio de-emebedder, and gives me a single USB cable for my DSP's and ECU.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Beastbike said:


> So, supposing I was to combine all these components in a sexy little aluminium project box similar to an istreamer, who would buy it?


Don't forget that pesky little issue of the payment you'd have to make to Apple.....

Why do you think a group of engineers from the Big 5 haven't moved forward with this "easy" device.


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Hextall 27 said:


> Don't forget that pesky little issue of the payment you'd have to make to Apple.....
> 
> Why do you think a group of engineers from the Big 5 haven't moved forward with this "easy" device.


That's only if you want the "made for apple" blurb

Anyway, it's happening, and will be compatible with all tablets.

So, a box, USB female in, toslink and coax out (debating rca out as Well)
3 bare wires hanging out
Red, black and blue (self explanatory)
It will charge and stream any type of tablet.

Give me 2 weeks.

P.s. I have worked with many engineers over the years, I have issues with engineers!!! Highly intelligent people with zero common sense, who also will not listen to a good idea if it hits them in the face. Yet they spend hundreds of hours and an awful lot of money developing a bad idea they have come up with that does not work!!!

Been there, done it, got countless t shirts


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

^Sounds good to me.

Most important thing IMPO is a clean, noise-free 2-amp+ Power Supply that is able to Charge large tablets, iOS & Android compatibility, AND Steering Wheel Controls. Both Coaxial & Toslink Optical SPDIF outputs are desireable with at least 24/96 bit depth & sample rate capability (anything higher is pointless). Analog RCAs would be nice, but would require a High-Quality DAC.

SWC Functions:

- Track Next/Previous/FF/RW
- Pause/Play
- Volume (without losing Digital bits)
- Mute
- Initiate Siri Hands-Free/Google Now/Samsung S-Voice & Bixby Voice Commands
- Mode (cycle through): Music Player App of choice, Stock Music Player, Tidal, Spotify, TuneIn/iHeart Radio, etc.

Take my money (up to $350 Max.)!


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Don't waste time with analog out. Plenty of products do that including the company we're talking too, the people who make the iStreamer. 
I'd buy your device if you incorporate steering wheel controls, but here's a marketing tip don't act like a dick to potential customers. Not all engineers are as you described, if they were cool **** like 600 HP Mustangs and Camaros that drive and idle like stock wouldn't exist. Hell, what you're doing is engineering. Don't assume because... well u know.


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Hextall 27 said:


> Don't waste time with analog out. Plenty of products do that including the company we're talking too, the people who make the iStreamer.
> I'd buy your device if you incorporate steering wheel controls, but here's a marketing tip don't act like a dick to potential customers. Not all engineers are as you described, if they were cool **** like 600 HP Mustangs and Camaros that drive and idle like stock wouldn't exist. Hell, what you're doing is engineering. Don't assume because... well u know.


Noted, just haunts me to this day some stuff that engineers poo pooed during my apprenticeship!

That aside, I will not be adding steering wheel controls to the first incarnation. 
Previous functions listed should be met (sorry I am rubbish for multiple quotes on forums)

I can confirm various functions, i.e. It should work with all tablets (which I can test). But please bare in mind I am just a mechanic with an electrical background. I don't know how I will be able to give technical figures other than theoretical. Something I need to figure out. Will be happy to send a prototype to the right person providing it remains unmolested/not opened up.

Back to steering wheel controls. I believe there is plenty available products to solve this. My personal setup is in a Mitsubishi Lancer evo 8, no steering wheel controls so I simply bought 2 satechi buttons. Multi function and home. Home is mounted on the left spoke of the steering wheel and multi on the right. Multi has pause/play up/down volume and next/previous. It suits my needs. Yes ther is the wake up part, but I simply hit both buttons as I climb into the car. By the time I put me seatbelt on and start the car after arsing about with the immobiliser, everything is in sync and the bit one has fired up. All ready to listen to my idol Bieber lol lol


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Your car doesn't have steering wheel controls but damn near everything else does. Adding aftermarket buttons looks like crap most of the time and more importantly you want this device to market itself on integration. If you don't want to pay Apple for the MFi licensing you'll need a solid selling point to those who want plug n play. And trust me plug n play devices are what sell. It's all well and good to believe the hardcore people will keep you afloat. But the truth is it's the noobs and people who don't understand the how and why, all they know is your device works. 
Your best bet would be to make it compatible with iDatalink Maestro products. That greatly simplifies the circuitry. 
As for technical testing get a hold of ErinH.


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Hextall 27 said:


> Your car doesn't have steering wheel controls but damn near everything else does. Adding aftermarket buttons looks like crap most of the time and more importantly you want this device to market itself on integration. If you don't want to pay Apple for the MFi licensing you'll need a solid selling point to those who want plug n play. And trust me plug n play devices are what sell. It's all well and good to believe the hardcore people will keep you afloat. But the truth is it's the noobs and people who don't understand the how and why, all they know is your device works.
> Your best bet would be to make it compatible with iDatalink Maestro products. That greatly simplifies the circuitry.
> As for technical testing get a hold of ErinH.


 Cheers for the feedback, I still feel like these are kind of separate products at the moment, and only just got my head around this!!

It does seem like the demand is kind of there. Although I do feel plug n play AND universal is kind of difficult, especially for the likes of myself.

I actually chose my aftermarket buttons pretty carefully for integration, and believe I have done a nice job. Will have to do a walk around video of my personal install.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Hextall 27 said:


> Your car doesn't have steering wheel controls but damn near everything else does. Adding aftermarket buttons looks like crap most of the time and more importantly you want this device to market itself on integration. If you don't want to pay Apple for the MFi licensing you'll need a solid selling point to those who want plug n play. And trust me plug n play devices are what sell. It's all well and good to believe the hardcore people will keep you afloat. But the truth is it's the noobs and people who don't understand the how and why, all they know is your device works.
> Your best bet would be to make it compatible with iDatalink Maestro products. That greatly simplifies the circuitry.
> As for technical testing get a hold of ErinH.


^Agreed 100%. Niether the experienced car audio pros or Noob's will want to deal with adding aftermarket SWC buttons. That would kill the deal and SWC are a MAJOR Desire for everyone who has to comply with "Hands-Free" laws. And I know that there are exceptions, but *most* vehicles from 2005 onward come with SWC even at the "bare bones" trim level. 

And agreed...no need for Analog RCA line level outputs! Plenty of available devices offer that.

.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I agree with the statements being made here. While my '04 xB did not have steering wheel controls, the 2006 model did. And this was one of the cheapest cars available for purchase at the time. Again, this was 10 years ago. SWC compatibility is a HUGE plus for people looking at a product like this. 

And if you can't charge a device at least as large as an iPad (preferably the 12.9" iPad Pro) while the device is operational (including streaming content), don't bother. It is extremely frustrating that in this day and age, we have to come up with a work around to charge devices even when connected to head units from top tier manufacturers. For instance, the Alpine in my wife's car won't even charge an iPhone 6 while in use. Pathetic.


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

Just got the SMSL X-USB and even though the first one was defective. Would power up but not connect I received a new one today and I am very happy with it. No problem with it draining the battery when left connected to Ipad it just shuts down when I turn off the truck and the Apple usb 3 adapter works with the jailbreak unlike the apple digital A/V adapter. So I think I have now found the best way to use my Ipad as my source and I have tried many ways.


----------



## elijahscott (Jun 23, 2017)

I just tried running my iPhone to my DSM with two channel RCA to 3.5mm adapter and I was very surprised on how well the signal was and my dsp able to amplify it to well enough power. I can also change the jumpers inside the dsp to push out 10v instead of 5v its on now. The signal was super clean and even playing pink noise also. So I'm going this route now everything seems to match better too(factory system has bass rolloff and horrible eq'ed).
Whats the consensus on optical or coax out? I know people where talking about jutter with Digital to digital but is there a better option? I can get a converter with either of these and my DSP takes both inputs and converts them to RCA outputs into the amps. 
I tuned the dsp to the two channel audio and it came out really good. Would going digital be an even better signal? I know some of the converters do 5.1 channel out not sure if that would make a difference from an iPhone/ipad setup.
Im going to be running a hdmi apple adapter out of the phone with lighting. Then connecting the other end lightning in port to the factory iPod connector ill just use a USB adapter and get power to my phone.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

You WILL hear an audible difference if you A/B analog out of the iDevice against digital.
I stopped pursuing this idea after Helix debuted the asynchronous USB adapter for DSP.2 and the Pro/Pro MkII. I honestly was surprised that people here tried to argue with the idea. 
I first played with the idea in my garage using a few high end home theatre Lighting to Coaxial digital devices and the original Helix DSP. The difference was very apparent.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Hextall 27 said:


> You WILL hear an audible difference if you A/B analog out of the iDevice against digital.
> I stopped pursuing this idea after Helix debuted the asynchronous USB adapter for DSP.2 and the Pro/Pro MkII. I honestly was surprised that people here tried to argue with the idea.
> I first played with the idea in my garage using a few high end home theatre Lighting to Coaxial digital devices and the original Helix DSP. The difference was very apparent.



Yeah I have the USB HEC, but haven't installed and tested it yet. I'm hopeful that it compares favorably to coax SPDIF from my Fiio X5ii. 

The direct SPDIF is actually about equal in SQ to an analog signal from my Sony GS9. In fact I want to get some better ears than mine in the car to AB compare the Sony analog to SPDIF direct into the Helix. It's changed my perception that direct digital must be better simply due to less conversions. That said since I'm currently "in-between" jobs, I may pull and sell the Sony just because with SPDIF and USB, it's kind of redundant as a source. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## elijahscott (Jun 23, 2017)

Hextall 27 said:


> You WILL hear an audible difference if you A/B analog out of the iDevice against digital.
> I stopped pursuing this idea after Helix debuted the asynchronous USB adapter for DSP.2 and the Pro/Pro MkII. I honestly was surprised that people here tried to argue with the idea.
> I first played with the idea in my garage using a few high end home theatre Lighting to Coaxial digital devices and the original Helix DSP. The difference was very apparent.


so you're saying a/b out of an iPhone vs lightning to usb/converting to coax out will make a difference in sound? 
Did you try optical also? Im thinking coax is better to run about 10 feet under car panels than optical being they are easily broken.


----------



## Beastbike (Oct 24, 2016)

Hey guys not posted in ages

Still working on the idea of creating this product. Bit of a setback on my part. My own personal bit one went bang. And with wifeys birthday, holiday etc, simply not had the spare cash to replace my processor and do some more developing.

Anyhow, after a shocking experience with audison. I have switched to x fire.

So far so good. I believe I have one of the first X fire processors in the uk.

As far as steering controls go, I still think this should be a seperate product. It's simple enough in its own right, and for the steering controls at least, it's already on the market.


Will keep you updated as and when


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Do you have a link to this new X Fire DSP?


----------



## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

rton20s said:


> Do you have a link to this new X Fire DSP?


http://www.xfireaudio.eu/index.php/processors/dsp-pro


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Catalyx said:


> http://www.xfireaudio.eu/index.php/processors/dsp-pro


Thanks. Pretty short on info, and no place to download the software. Nice to see they have developed iOS and Android apps for the DSP. I don't have my iPad here to run through that app, but the controller for the iPhone is serviceable. Not the prettiest, or likely very easy to use while driving, but it could do in a pinch. It would also appear that phone apps are the only controller option?


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

elijahscott said:


> so you're saying a/b out of an iPhone vs lightning to usb/converting to coax out will make a difference in sound?
> Did you try optical also? Im thinking coax is better to run about 10 feet under car panels than optical being they are easily broken.


Test A was iPhone 6 connected with a 3.5 mm to RCA cable directly to the Helix DSP. 
Test B was the iPhone6 connected to a Wadia 171i (with 30 pin to Lightning adapter). The 171i fed the Helix with a Toslink signal

I used The Director to toggle the inputs. 

Never had an issue with quality optical cable in 20 years.


----------



## fackamato (Mar 18, 2013)

I want to control the media from the vehicle, i.e. scroll on the steering wheel watching songs fly by on the HUD, then picking one.

If the audio output is going to my DSP's toslink input, then I would have no control over anything as the HU is entirely bypassed - cannot even control the volume - right?

Or am I misunderstanding the product...


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

fackamato said:


> I want to control the media from the vehicle, i.e. scroll on the steering wheel watching songs fly by on the HUD, then picking one.
> 
> If the audio output is going to my DSP's toslink input, then I would have no control over anything as the HU is entirely bypassed - cannot even control the volume - right?
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding the product...


You are correct. It would have to run through the head unit to have those functions


----------



## Ride154 (May 14, 2016)

Hi Guys,

What are the pro and cons for using optical cable or coax?


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> ifi audio iLink will cleanly convert USB audio signal to digital coax or optical. Compatible with iPad via newest USB 3.0 Camera Lighting adapter.
> 
> And for the audiophiles wanting to go the extra mile, I started to also use the ifi audio Micro iUSB 3.0. It is directly compatible with car power DC at 12 volt.
> 
> ...


Sent you a PM.


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Or just buy one of the Helix DSPs that use the HEC USB input. The less BS between your device and the DSP the better.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

What is the iFi iLink's advantage and differences over the ifi Nano iDSD? They both play 24/192 correct?


----------



## fackamato (Mar 18, 2013)

Hextall 27 said:


> Or just buy one of the Helix DSPs that use the HEC USB input. The less BS between your device and the DSP the better.


How are you going to control the volume as you'd bypass everything in the cabin of the car this way?


----------



## Hextall 27 (Jan 20, 2010)

Helix DSP Director controls the volume of my iPhone (which is asynchronously connected via USB) and the factory volume control does everything else. (Over analog) Eventually the factory steering wheel control will interface with the Directors main functions.


----------



## elijahscott (Jun 23, 2017)

Hextall 27 said:


> Helix DSP Director controls the volume of my iPhone (which is asynchronously connected via USB) and the factory volume control does everything else. (Over analog) Eventually the factory steering wheel control will interface with the Directors main functions.


does your helix show clipping signal? If my iPhone is 100% max almost all outputs show clipping. I have to bring it down one click from max to have it not showing a clipped signal.


----------



## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

outroku said:


> What is the iFi iLink's advantage and differences over the ifi Nano iDSD? They both play 24/192 correct?



Yes they both play 24/192. But the Nano adds the capability to play DSD/DXD files also. So depending on your library, the Nano may be the better choice.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

Velozity said:


> Yes they both play 24/192. But the Nano adds the capability to play DSD/DXD files also. So depending on your library, the Nano may be the better choice.


Thanks for the update! After much research and persistence, I located a new iLink from an ifi dealer for $264. Just opened it tonight. Looking forward to seeing how it will function with a jailbroken ipad.

FWIW - I recently tried the smsl x-usb DAC with a jailbroken ipad. It would sometimes not power on after cycling ignition. It would take cycling the ignition twice, which was a huge inconvenience. So I returned it. Hoping the iLink will solve this issue.

If it does, I will be going all out by adding the following in bold:

ipad -> Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter -> *Oyaide Class A USB cable* -> *ifi micro iusb 3.0 Power Supply* -> *ifi Gemini dual-headed USB cable* -> ifi iLink -> *Coax Digital Cable (open to suggestions - Wireworld or AudioQuest perhaps)* -> Mosconi 8to12 Aerospace


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

outroku said:


> Thanks for the update! After much research and persistence, I located a new iLink from an ifi dealer for $264. Just opened it tonight. Looking forward to seeing how it will function with a jailbroken ipad.
> 
> FWIW - I recently tried the smsl x-usb DAC with a jailbroken ipad. It would sometimes not power on after cycling ignition. It would take cycling the ignition twice, which was a huge inconvenience. So I returned it. Hoping the iLink will solve this issue.


So I hooked up the ifi iLink tonight and I'm pretty bummed. It will not allow music to play through a jailbroken ipad. I tried both ios 9.3.2 and 9.3.3 ipads. The track plays for 2-5 seconds through the ipad's speaker, then pauses. I tried the Leechtunes app and the free version on Onkyo HF player. 

The iLink's 3 LEDs (Power, Jitter, Play) continually cycle every 8-12 seconds. Do I need to feed the ipad and iLink more juice perhaps???

I then hooked up my iphone ios 10.3.3 and it played successfully through the iLink using the Leechtunes app. The iLink's 3 LEDs stayed constant. For some reason, the free version of Onkyo HF player would not play any music. I don't understand that either.

Another question...I only have a toslink optical cable right now. With my iphone connected, I could only control the volume with my Mosconi RCD controller. The volume on the iphone will not function using the iLink. Would a digital coax cable change anything? Would an ifi Nano iDSD change anything?


----------



## fackamato (Mar 18, 2013)

You cannot change the volume on a digital signal from the source, as that would degrade the signal. You need to change the volume on the device that does the DAC (e.g. DSP or head unit).

Unless I'm mistaken, of course.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

fackamato said:


> You cannot change the volume on a digital signal from the source, as that would degrade the signal. You need to change the volume on the device that does the DAC (e.g. DSP or head unit).
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, of course.


That's what I seem to recall reading recently. Hence the Mosconi RCD only being able to change the volume. 

Which presents another problem. Is it possible to use your steering wheel controls to change volume on a DSP, particularly a Mosconi? I'm doubting it, but wanted to ask.


----------



## fackamato (Mar 18, 2013)

Not that I know of. These are the reasons that I'm still looking for a way to hook up an audio source digitally to my car (it appears an iPhone plugged in over USB works, but...)


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

fackamato said:


> Not that I know of. These are the reasons that I'm still looking for a way to hook up an audio source digitally to my car (it appears an iPhone plugged in over USB works, but...)


Yeah I've been researching other tablets, particularly ones that have Wolfson or Cirrus Logic internal DACs. Would that alleviate the source volume issue?

If you use a non-ios tablet and connect digitally, do you still have to use a USB to SPDIF converter?


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

outroku said:


> Yeah I've been researching other tablets, particularly ones that have Wolfson or Cirrus Logic internal DACs. Would that alleviate the source volume issue?
> 
> If you use a non-ios tablet and connect digitally, do you still have to use a USB to SPDIF converter?


When you go digital out on a iPad you bypass the internal Dac. So no you would still need to use the rcd. To use a non iOS tablet if it does not have optical or coaxial out you would still need the converter. And as far as I know there are no tablets with optical or coaxial out.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

Hammer1 said:


> To use a non iOS tablet if it does not have optical or coaxial out you would still need the converter. And as far as I know there are no tablets with optical or coaxial out.


Would that alleviate the source volume issue?


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Hextall 27 said:


> Helix DSP Director controls the volume of my iPhone (which is asynchronously connected via USB) and the factory volume control does everything else. (Over analog) Eventually the factory steering wheel control will interface with the Directors main functions.


Correct. For my iPad / ifi iLink digital coax setup, I’m using the Helix DSP Director to control my digital volume as well.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

outroku said:


> So I hooked up the ifi iLink tonight and I'm pretty bummed. It will not allow music to play through a jailbroken ipad. I tried both ios 9.3.2 and 9.3.3 ipads. The track plays for 2-5 seconds through the ipad's speaker, then pauses. I tried the Leechtunes app and the free version on Onkyo HF player.
> 
> The iLink's 3 LEDs (Power, Jitter, Play) continually cycle every 8-12 seconds. Do I need to feed the ipad and iLink more juice perhaps???
> 
> ...


I believe the iLink might need more juice than the apple adapter can supply. I’m using the ifi micro usb 3.0 to power the iLink and have no issues (Nano usb 3.0 would work fine too). But also take into account that my iPad isn’t jailbroken. 

The ifi Micro usb 3.0 requires 9v / 1.5 a for optimal functionality. So far I’m using a RadioShack cigarette adapter that converts 12v to 9v dc.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Velozity said:


> Yes they both play 24/192. But the Nano adds the capability to play DSD/DXD files also. So depending on your library, the Nano may be the better choice.


Yes. But if you don’t use dsd/dxd, only the iLink has the “Super Digital Output” which is further explained here:

https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/iLinkTechNote.pdf

Probably doesn’t make a difference in car audio but I tend to go overboard for piece of mind.

The USB HEC adapter is an awesome solution for those who have Helix DSP but like I said I wanted to go for super quality components, hence the ifi route. 

Similar to someone spending the $ for Pioneer dex-p99rs , alpine f1, or the newer Sony rsx-gs9


----------



## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Have any of you tried this DAC? 
https://www.m2techusa.com/collections/frontpage/products/hiface-two-hi-end-s-pdif-output-interface

Also I can get the same thing with a BNC connection for half the price. Can I go BNC to digital coax with and adapter? I've looked online and can't find a definitive answer.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

AyOne said:


> Also I can get the same thing with a BNC connection for half the price. Can I go BNC to digital coax with and adapter? I've looked online and can't find a definitive answer.


Yes you can have a BNC to digital coax cable, with no need for an adapter:

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/

Scroll down and under "Belden 1694A Digital Audio Cable", and under "Connectors", select "RCA/BNC"


----------



## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

outroku said:


> Yes you can have a BNC to digital coax cable, with no need for an adapter:
> 
> https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/
> 
> Scroll down and under "Belden 1694A Digital Audio Cable", and under "Connectors", select "RCA/BNC"


Thanks, is there anything special going on in the cable for the conversion. I ask because I already have a nice coax cable and the adapters are like $1. So if I can save $19, I'd like too.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

AyOne said:


> Thanks, is there anything special going on in the cable for the conversion. I ask because I already have a nice coax cable and the adapters are like $1. So if I can save $19, I'd like too.


No, nothing special. Just different connectors. Use the adapters or solder on a BNC connector.


----------



## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

AyOne said:


> Have any of you tried this DAC?
> https://www.m2techusa.com/collections/frontpage/products/hiface-two-hi-end-s-pdif-output-interface
> 
> Also I can get the same thing with a BNC connection for half the price. Can I go BNC to digital coax with and adapter? I've looked online and can't find a definitive answer.


You should look at the SMSL X usb only 50 bucks and works great.


----------



## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Hammer1 said:


> You should look at the SMSL X usb only 50 bucks and works great.


I've looked at that one it's on the short list, I've narrowed it down to 4. One I can't get(firekey), the smsl, the m2tech(bnc), and the the hifime ess9018. I'm leaning towards the last one because I like the sound of sabre dacs and would use it outside of the car. If Audioquest Dragonflies did spdif I'd get one of those in a heartbeat.


----------



## outroku (Jul 20, 2014)

Hammer1 said:


> You should look at the SMSL X usb only 50 bucks and works great.


I couldn't get the SMSL xUSB to power on with the first ignition start hardly ever. Usually took two times, which was highly inconvenient, so I returned it.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

AyOne said:


> I've looked at that one it's on the short list, I've narrowed it down to 4. One I can't get(firekey), the smsl, the m2tech(bnc), and the the hifime ess9018. I'm leaning towards the last one because I like the sound of sabre dacs and would use it outside of the car. If Audioquest Dragonflies did spdif I'd get one of those in a heartbeat.


I've had the best luck with the Peachtree X1--gives you either coax or toslink output


----------



## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Timelessr1 said:


> I've had the best luck with the Peachtree X1--gives you either coax or toslink output


Those are nice but unfortunately discontinued and hard to find used.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

AyOne said:


> Those are nice but unfortunately discontinued and hard to find used.


True..i have two for sale


----------



## viriato (Dec 13, 2018)

Hi, this is my first post here. I’ve been following this thread for quite a while since I had the same basic problem: to go from iOS to my car's new DSP/amplifier without unnecessary AD/DA conversions, i.e., without leaving the digital domain. This is how I solved it:
I purchased a device named August WR320, basically a WiFi receiver with optical (toslink) output (about 50 USD with a toslink cable). It is powered by a standard cigarette lighter charger through a USB cable. The device allows for multiroom transmission, etc, but I just use it for my car. Its dimensions are quite small and allow for easy placement in the glovebox. It has the toslink output, which connects to the DSP/amp directly and also a 3.5mm audio output, that I connected to the car stereo aux input, thus allowing to use volume and tone controls and bluetooth calls, if needed. It also has bluetooth connectivity, but I don't use it.
The connection to the iPhone takes about 20-30s from the moment I put the key in the ignition, which is reasonable, but not great. The WiFi connection can also be made by providing the WiFi from the iPhone (hotspot) and this allows for the phone to keep the 4g network for various functions, namely music streaming, email and so on.
There is a clearly audible difference between the optical and the audio outputs, the optical being clearer, with a wider and more precise soundstage. And I can still control the volume from the iPhone.
Thanks everybody for the great posts here which helped me to get this solution!


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Nice find!

Caveat with Wi-Fi streaming for iOS devices is that your tied to the AirPlay limitations.

AirPlay transmits “CD quality” audio at 16bit / 44.1kHz. Any files with higher bitrates will be downsampled.


----------



## viriato (Dec 13, 2018)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Nice find!
> 
> Caveat with Wi-Fi streaming for iOS devices is that your tied to the AirPlay limitations.
> 
> AirPlay transmits “CD quality” audio at 16bit / 44.1kHz. Any files with higher bitrates will be downsampled.


This is indeed true and a limitation of this setup. Anyway I confess that I can not hear any difference between CD quality and higher bitrates/sample rates... Even between compressed and uncompressed audio I find it very hard to distinguish them. Of course this is a theme of much debate and probably beyond the scope of this thread! Anyway, what I can clearly hear is a difference between 3.5mm audio and optical outputs from the device and this is something I was not expecting to be so clear, but as this bypasses the stock radio all the controls are lost and volume must be controlled via the amplifier remote or the iPhone itself.


----------



## vietjdmboi (Jan 3, 2015)

viriato said:


> This is indeed true and a limitation of this setup. Anyway I confess that I can not hear any difference between CD quality and higher bitrates/sample rates... Even between compressed and uncompressed audio I find it very hard to distinguish them. Of course this is a theme of much debate and probably beyond the scope of this thread! Anyway, what I can clearly hear is a difference between 3.5mm audio and optical outputs from the device and this is something I was not expecting to be so clear, but as this bypasses the stock radio all the controls are lost and volume must be controlled via the amplifier remote or the iPhone itself.


do you have pictures of your set up? it sounds quite interesting.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

I mentioned the Wi-Fi iOS AirPlay limitation because the same playback bitrates can be achieved with Bluetooth aptx (CSR or HD).

The iFi iOne is another similar unit. No Wi-Fi but has Bluetooth CSR and is much more flexible. It can input Bluetooth, usb audio, or SPIDF and output RCA, SPIDF, or USB.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-ione/


----------



## viriato (Dec 13, 2018)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> I mentioned the Wi-Fi iOS AirPlay limitation because the same playback bitrates can be achieved with Bluetooth aptx (CSR or HD).
> 
> The iFi iOne is another similar unit. No Wi-Fi but has Bluetooth CSR and is much more flexible. It can input Bluetooth, usb audio, or SPIDF and output RCA, SPIDF, or USB.
> 
> ...


----------



## viriato (Dec 13, 2018)

vietjdmboi said:


> do you have pictures of your set up? it sounds quite interesting.


Thanks! Unfortunately I am new here and do not have permission to post links. The installation photos are on the installer's Facebook page (Autosom & Alarmes) posted on October 23rd 2018. I can take some of this particular device, which I installed myself and post them here as soon as I am given the permission.


----------



## Ride154 (May 14, 2016)

Hi Guys, any progress?
My iPhone 7 and Zenec navi are once again not playing nice and I’m fed up. So looking for a nice solution to feed the audio from my iPhone to my Bit 1.1 with volume en sw controls. Greetings Menno


----------



## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

Apple camera connection kit then into a usb DAC like the Topping D10 (coax and optical digital outputs). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ride154 (May 14, 2016)

Thanks for the tip on the Topping D10!
Didn’t know that one yet


----------



## Ride154 (May 14, 2016)

Hi SiW80,

How do you power the D10 and your iPhone in your car?
The iPhone takes 2A to charge and the D10 2A to power up
and there are not a lot sig chargers who give more than 2,4A

Thank Menno


----------



## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

Ride154 said:


> Hi SiW80,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You need the Apple Camera Connection Kit which gives the usb output for the DAC and power connection for the phone 

I assume you have a Lightning connector on your iPhone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jamesj562 (May 26, 2020)

After hours of searching does anyone know how much quality am I giving up by playing Amazon HD flac files from my iPhone 8 through an Apple lightning to 3.5mm adaptor and running a 3.5mm to rca cables to my helix DSP.2 RCA inputs E and F(recommended in the manual) 

Right now the quality sounds outstanding (but volume lacking a tad) but I’m wondering if it’s worth $150 to buy the digital AV/HDMI Apple cord and Topping D10 and send that all into the optical in on my Helix DSP.2. Am I chasing a minimal gain or nonexistent gain over current setup above?


----------



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I think amirm at Audio Science Review tested an Apple lightning to 3.6mm dongle it performed pretty well.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Jamesj562 said:


> After hours of searching does anyone know how much quality am I giving up by playing Amazon HD flac files from my iPhone 8 through an Apple lightning to 3.5mm adaptor and running a 3.5mm to rca cables to my helix DSP.2 RCA inputs E and F(recommended in the manual)
> 
> Right now the quality sounds outstanding (but volume lacking a tad) but I’m wondering if it’s worth $150 to buy the digital AV/HDMI Apple cord and Topping D10 and send that all into the optical in on my Helix DSP.2. Am I chasing a minimal gain or nonexistent gain over current setup above?


Lumberman is correct. I just responded to the thread that you started:








3.5mm vs Optical from iPhone Direct into DSP. Highest...


After hours of searching does anyone know how much quality am I giving up by playing Amazon HD flac files from my iPhone through an Apple lightning to 3.5mm adaptor and running a 3.5mm to rca cables to my helix DSP.2 RCA inputs E and F(recommended in the manual) Right now to me the quality...




www.diymobileaudio.com


----------



## Jamesj562 (May 26, 2020)

gijoe said:


> Lumberman is correct. I just responded to the thread that you started:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then I guess my question is am I leaving anything on the table by going 3.5 mm analog versus optical into the DSP


----------



## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

If you go toslink or coax you'll also need a digital volume control. URC.2, URC.3, or Director.


----------



## Jamesj562 (May 26, 2020)

DaveG said:


> If you go toslink or coax you'll also need a digital volume control. URC.2, URC.3, or Director.



Is there any reason I can’t use the iPhone volume up and down button as I do now?


----------



## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

I used Amazon Music HD for a while and I couldn’t get any tracks of above 48kHz bit rate using my Topping NX4S which can do 192kHz. 

I wonder how many HD tracks are actually ‘HD’ higher bitrate tracks. 

However, Amazon Music standard quality doesn’t sound as crisp and full to me, but maybe it’s psychological. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Jamesj562 said:


> Is there any reason I can’t use the iPhone volume up and down button as I do now?


iphone volume control only effects analog and will not raise and lower the volume when going digital. You positively will need one of the 3 I mentioned previously for volume control.


----------



## Jamesj562 (May 26, 2020)

SiW80 said:


> I used Amazon Music HD for a while and I couldn’t get any tracks of above 48kHz bit rate using my Topping NX4S which can do 192kHz.
> 
> I wonder how many HD tracks are actually ‘HD’ higher bitrate tracks.
> 
> ...



Im seeing the 48kHz cap as well due to my device. I am a bit ignorant and not aware how much of a difference this makes vs 192kHZ or 96kHZ all at 24-bit

this is without being plugged into my DSP I did not check to see if it changes when connected to the helix.


----------



## Jamesj562 (May 26, 2020)

DaveG said:


> iphone volume control only effects analog and will not raise and lower the volume when going digital. You positively will need one of the 3 I mentioned previously for volume control.


Doug from Helix the technical director for their products claims the iPhone volume button itself can be used control the helix digital signal via the apple usb output/camera kit

"Gotcha. Yes it is a form of device misidentification. I’m sure Doug can elaborate further why that’s the case specifically for the USB HEC.

However, as Doug previously mentioned, iOS devices are also able to modulate the volume. Lightning is digital and USB is digital which can only mean a form of digital volume control is implemented by the iOS device.

Bluetooth audio is also digital audio. iOS devices let you control that volume as well. So iOS digital volume control is not a foreign notion.

Current methods of digital volume control does mean losing bits as volume is decreased (inaudible in most cases but probably the reason why digital volume control is disabled with many ‘recognized’ or ‘compatible’ connected digital audio devices). The specific dithering method or algorithms Apple is using for digital volume control will probably never be disclosed unless we have an Apple engineer in our midst?"



> Redliner99 said:
> What I'm wondering is with the camera adapter issues it calls for a digital signal get the "this accessory isn't supported" issue and spits out an analog signal where the a/v adapter calls for digital in a different way and it actually gets it? The A/v adapter was charging as well too


----------



## viriato (Dec 13, 2018)

Jamesj562 said:


> Doug from Helix the technical director for their products claims the iPhone volume button itself can be used control the helix digital signal via the apple usb output/camera kit
> 
> "Gotcha. Yes it is a form of device misidentification. I’m sure Doug can elaborate further why that’s the case specifically for the USB HEC.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is correct. I am now using a Topping D10s, with the optical out directly to the DSP/amp and the RCA out into the car's factory audio in, and I can change the volume in the iPhone (although I don't do it, to keep the digital signal with the maximum bits). When I had a previous setup, with a wireless transmitter, I could also change the volume.


----------



## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

DaveG said:


> iphone volume control only effects analog and will not raise and lower the volume when going digital. You positively will need one of the 3 I mentioned previously for volume control.


Erm, nope, the topping does allow volume control via the iPhone! So no you positively don’t, it lowers the bit depth from the phone and is in big steps unless you get a volume modulation app also...


----------



## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

dumdum said:


> Erm, nope, the topping does allow volume control via the iPhone! So no you positively don’t, it lowers the bit depth from the phone and is in big steps unless you get a volume modulation app also...


Once again dumdum you are right and I stand corrected (I'm going to add that to my signature! LOL). At least you are tactful in your approach! The slider in the app or the volume controls on side the volume do work but as you said it's touchy. Now in CarPlay the phone wont control the volume (unless you're going to tell me I'm wrong once again lol) but guess who needs it to.


----------



## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Once again dumdum you are right and I stand corrected (I'm going to add that to my signature! LOL). At least you are tactful in your approach! The slider in the app or the volume controls on side the volume do work but as you said it's touchy. Now in CarPlay the phone wont control the volume (unless you're going to tell me I'm wrong once again lol) but guess who needs it to.


Sorry, I don’t always read what I type so sometimes it can be a little bit lacking in tact lol... yeah the first notch is about 10db I reckon... 😂 the really odd thing is that with optical from my Apple TV 3 the volume control gives a load of really nice steps of 2-3db each, I did toy with the idea of the Apple TV in the car, and had even converted one to 12v, but it worked well, but having to connect each time was a pain in the arris...

and no, you are correct, CarPlay uses the external devices volume control 👍🏼


----------

