# Diyma Reference 12"



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

This is the most excited I have been with a new piece of car audio equipment since I purchased the DRZ9255! With that being said, the Diyma Reference 12" sub is the best out of the box sound quality sub that I have ever owned or listened to.

I have had two days to listen to the sub in a 1 cubic foot box after displacement. I am using the Clarion DRZ9255's active filters and have the high pass filter set at 30Hz with an 18db/per octave slope and the low pass filter set at 80Hz with a 6db/per ocatave slope. I am using the Rockford Fosgate "25 to life" PUNCH150 amp to power the Diyma sub. According to its birth sheet it puts out 321 watts per channel at 14.5 VDC. I have both channels bridged to the sub, so its getting at least 642 watts.

The build quality of this sub is superior to any sub that I have owned since the Focal Utopia 33WX with the multi-mags (very sexy touch).

I can understand why it is called the Diyma "Reference" because of the natural transparent sound that it produces. It blends better with my front stage than any other sub that I have owned or tried. I have not done any eq work whatsoever and may not.  This sub makes you forget that you have something in the trunk when listening at normal levels. This sub will have a place in my car as long as it lasts.  

I had never wanted to try it because of the problems I have read about, but acquired this new one in a recent trade. I am sure glad that I did! 

Now a few things that I have noticed about this sub after reading reviews and getting to listen to one.

1. it sounds better in a 1 cuft box than in a .5 cuft box
2. it is a true sq sub, meaning it is not meant to measure a spl of over 120-130.
3. i think most people that have had problems with it either used it in a small enclosure and tried to get too much spl out of it, or used too little power and tried to compensate with the amps gain.
4. the sub is very inefficient and needs at least 500 watts rms imo
5. if you want the best sound quality with the extra boom, buy two and have a 1000-1500 watt amp handy.
6. read this before you use it, http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13751
7. listen and enjoy  

Npdang, you have created a truly great product and it is a damn shame the way this has turned out. You are a true audio genius and I hope you create more products soon. I honestly cannot believe how great this sub sounds! If you ever make a second batch, count me in.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

legend94 said:


> 1. it sounds better in a 1 cuft box than in a .5 cuft box


What was the difference in sound? Can you please elaborate? Thanks


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## eqrenthorn (Apr 18, 2007)

Definitely a wonderful subwoofer, and I agree with the enclosure size. I played around with both a 0.5 and a 0.9 sealed box after displacement, and preferred the 0.9 as well.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> What was the difference in sound? Can you please elaborate? Thanks


nothing wrong with the sound in either enclosure and i should have worded that different...it just seems like the 1 cuft box seems to give more output with less power as you probably already guessed  

with the same amount of power(a little over 600 watts), it seems the sub has no stress at all in the 1 cuft box

hope that helped, but that is a good as i can describe it....maybe someone can get more technical for us.


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## aneonrider (Apr 28, 2007)

Why are you highpassing? I know there isn't too much audio information below 30Hz (unless you are listening to orchestras & pipes). Just wondering...


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

aneonrider said:


> Why are you highpassing? I know there isn't too much audio information below 30Hz (unless you are listening to orchestras & pipes). Just wondering...


Less likely to blow something up? Even in a sealed box, I would use one around 20-30hz if possible.


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## 1darrely (Apr 15, 2006)

I 100% agree with this review. This sub is very clear and transparent. I use mine in a 0.5 cu ft net enclosure with only 350W from an Audison Lrx1.400, HP'd at 25 Hz 2nd order and LP'd at 80 Hz 5th order. Gets loud enough for me, but I'm probably much older than most here. Finding a 12" that can achieve a .707 qtc in a 0.5 cu ft enclosure is not easy. That it sounds this good and sells for so little is almost unbelieveable.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the comments and review! Glad you like yours... I don't see ever replacing mine


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Nice review. I guess i disagree on the enclosure size. I have one in a 1.0cu ft now, but i prefer the sound and impact it has in a 0.5 cu/ft.


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

Great review, Justin. I thought the same as you before I tried the DIYMA12 myself. What a silky smooth subwoofer!! I think a lot of people are missing out on THE best sounding small box 12 out there because of some negative experiences.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

I liked mine in a 1 cuft as well. Maybe because I only had about 300 w though?

Good review, now crank it and blow it already!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

They sound great, I just wish they could handle my listening habits.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

3.5max6spd said:


> Nice review. I guess i disagree on the enclosure size. I have one in a 1.0cu ft now, but i prefer the sound and impact it has in a 0.5 cu/ft.


I tend to agree with you Manny, the 1.0 is a little boomy for my taste. However if I was to do it again, I would want to try the .75 for the best of both worlds.


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## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

legend94 said:


> 5. if you want the best sound quality with the extra boom, buy two and have a 1000-1500 watt amp handy.


i think that's what i'll be doing. I'll give a one a try with 300watts first, but i'm guessing i'll end up with two off 1100. I'll prob. try .6-.7 with the single and see how i like that, then go from there with the dual setup, if i go that way.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

I have only 400w, and I'm plenty happy. Its louder than what I ever need it for. That might vary from car to car.


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## low (Jun 2, 2005)

i believe engbot's diymas are in a box of 1.5, so .75 cubic each and man, you can feel these puppies hit you. great speed/impact on these diymas.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I beleive my enclosure is around .9-1cf and i'm actually missing some of the snappiness from it in the 70-80hz region, gonna take the sub out soon and put some blocks in and see if i can get down to .7-.8cf and see how it sounds then with a little more upper subbass to blend better with my midbasses.

Feel as though i have PLENTY of low end in the current size i'm using, if i can figure up the appropriate sound with a single then adding another shouldn't be hard at all to get the appropriate sound out of.

Oh yea 500w.


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## Boring (Sep 21, 2006)

I'm using a 0.8cf. The sub blends seemlessly with midbass now. Sub is only about 1 week old. I hope it'll get louder and lower. I'm feeding sub with 420w


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Do you ladies think that this would make for a good HT sub with say 350-550 watts to it?


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

AzGrower said:


> Do you ladies think that this would make for a good HT sub with say 350-550 watts to it?


that's what i'm planning, it's critically damped in 1.5cf but i already have one of the PE 1cf sub boxes that'll have to suffice.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

thought i piggy back this review, ive seen all the good/bad reviews, and I dont understand it. 

I have mine (direct replacement for my w6v2's) off 300W each, 0.9 cu ft each stuffed. wired to 2 ohm mono so not quite enough power, and the box is too large (ill change that this weekennd to try a 0.5 cu ft each


these drivers sound absolutely WONDERFUL. They hit hard when needed, and disappear when needed (NO OVERHANG AT ALL, very important to me personally. They are not as loud as the w6's, but I think that is a matter of power, which at the moment I dont have at 2 ohm (since my belle is designed to run at 1 ohm mono)

I have the gain rather high at about 35-40%, and these sound as good if not better imo. which kinda suprised me considering there is soo much w6 love that I have read over the years (they are awesome dont get me wrong) these diyma's do as everyone has said BLEND exceptionally well, its rather impressive at low volumes, where I actually have impact, without having to change any levels. 

at high volume on low end cd reproductions, they hit the low notes (with not as much force and nausea as the w6's lol) but its more than enough if one wants to keep there ears (well at least in my car with the tweeters in the apillars)

i hear articulate drums, not killer oh my god bass, but the way it probably should sound in real reproductions of sound. and I havent had any cone tears either lol, and im beating on them for sure, just to see. anyone who listens to almost any rap record from the sound, knows the bottom is rather exagerrated--and thats pretty much what Ive been using to beat em to death lol (see outkast, one of favs and what I use to test low en, just throw in the discography). but All I know is my michael jackson Off the Wall, was never as pleasurable as listening to these VERY IMPRESSIVE

I wish some folks didnt have the issues (or should I say abused them lol), as these are some awesome drivers IMO.

street beaters they are not, but I just dont understand how someone could destroy on of these, unless you were "trying" to. dont go touching that cone though lol, as it amazingly thin. these would BE PERFECT IMO, if somehow there could be a pressed paper version---oooh to dream

but I assume since these have become a wallet strain on the forum host, that I doubt we will see another driver of this type for round two, 

I for one like em  at what npdang is selling for these are A STEAL!!!!


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

very well said. after a week of listening to mine i can see why you would want it in a .5cuft box. i think it really depends on your listening taste. either way, i dont think you could go wrong with a sealed box of .5-1 cuft. i would really love to see a pulp cone version as you mentioned, but im sure there is a reason npdang chose the cone material that he did.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

newtitan said:


> I wish some folks didnt have the issues (or should I say abused them lol), as these are some awesome drivers IMO.


Awesome review, I totally agree with you on your findings. 

Regarding the tears in the cone and abuse. Abuse is the right word. I have "tears" on my cone now. I just had to see if, you set the gains too high, if the cone would tear. Well you know what after 7 months of listening to the sub with the gain set right not a problem. A little over a month of the gain set higher than supposed to and a little hard pounding oh...... sure enough. The cone has "tears." Hmm abuse and inappropriate use is correct!!!


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

skylar112 said:


> Awesome review, I totally agree with you on your findings.
> 
> Regarding the tears in the cone and abuse. Abuse is the right word. I have "tears" on my cone now. I just had to see if, you set the gains too high, if the cone would tear. Well you know what after 7 months of listening to the sub with the gain set right not a problem. A little over a month of the gain set higher than supposed to and a little hard pounding oh...... sure enough. The cone has "tears." Hmm abuse and inappropriate use is correct!!!



could you go more in detail of the gain setting. i know this is a noob question, but i want to keep mine intact :blush:


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Well, I ruined 2, and if it was abuse, my current sub doesn't mind it at all as it's still as good as new...and I've run it even harder. 

Doesn't really matter though what anyone thinks about it. Besides, I'm happier with my current sub.

There is no way a sub knows where your gain is set.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

89grand said:


> Well, I ruined 2, and if it was abuse, my current sub doesn't mind it at all as it's still as good as new...and I've run it even harder.
> 
> Doesn't really matter though what anyone thinks about it. Besides, I'm happier with my current sub.
> 
> There is no way a sub knows where your gain is set.


is your name bob my chance?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

legend94 said:


> is your name bob my chance?


Is my name Bob? I don't get it. 


Why, because you want to hear something untrue like a certain gain setting tears the cone, and that's user error?

Setting an amp gain to high, causing the amp to distort like hell will burn the voice coil, not rip the cone.

But you can believe whatever you want.

I'm certainly not trying to turn this thread into a debate about the Diyma sub, it's been discussed enough. I'll stay out it.


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## SQdude (Mar 29, 2007)

Are there any inductance plots and/or distortion plots of this driver? I take it it wouldn't be a good sub for dipole / ib config, would it?


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

ive heard two ib... sounded good. are there drivers better suited for ib? yes, but many low Qts drivers have been used with success ib. it also helps that the diyma has a pretty stiff suspension if i remember correctly.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

legend94 said:


> could you go more in detail of the gain setting. i know this is a noob question, but i want to keep mine intact :blush:



For a long time I had my lanzar opti 200.2 set at 1/8th of a turn from zero. Anything above that I can hear the sub not sounding as good. So for ****s and giggles from hearing people complain about the sub. I turned the gain up to see if it fits the hype. So I turned it up to about almost a half turn over that. So about a 6/10ths of the way up from zero. 

Did it get louder? yes!! Did I get the crazy clapping sound that everyone else said? Yes? Did I get the clapping sound before? Nope!! not even at full blast with twice the power. If you want to keep your sub intact just keep the gains within a respectable level.





"There is no way a sub knows where your gain is set."

You are absolutely right. And the unfortunately part is yes your sub doesn't know where your gains are set. If it knew maybe it would limit itslef from playing sub destroying distortions. The gain on an amp is supposed to be calibrated with the preamp output of the headunit. If the headunit A is putting out 8v, where as headunit B is putting out 2v, obviously the gains on the amp will be lower for headunit A. And when both headunits going to the same amp, the gains properly set, in theory volume should be the same. The gains on amps are NOT volume knobs. They are there to calibrate with the source, so that your speakers can play clean without getting destroyed with distortion.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

skylar112 said:


> For a long time I had my lanzar opti 200.2 set at 1/8th of a turn from zero. Anything above that I can hear the sub not sounding as good. So for ****s and giggles from hearing people complain about the sub. I turned the gain up to see if it fits the hype. So I turned it up to about almost a half turn over that. So about a 6/10ths of the way up from zero.
> 
> Did it get louder? yes!! Did I get the crazy clapping sound that everyone else said? Yes? Did I get the clapping sound before? Nope!! not even at full blast with twice the power. If you want to keep your sub intact just keep the gains within a respectable level.


thanks,

so no clapping sound or other driver distress = gains set correctly? 

i think i have the gain set correctly, but im giving it at least 600 watts. i have not noticed any strange sounds, and i have been checking every day by popping the trunk for a close listen.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

SQdude said:


> Are there any inductance plots and/or distortion plots of this driver? I take it it wouldn't be a good sub for dipole / ib config, would it?


It's somewhat difficult to get accurate distortion plots for a sub, but there are Klippel plots including inductance posted on the shop page if you're interested.


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## solacedagony (May 18, 2006)

skylar112 said:


> Awesome review, I totally agree with you on your findings.
> 
> Regarding the tears in the cone and abuse. Abuse is the right word. I have "tears" on my cone now. I just had to see if, you set the gains too high, if the cone would tear. Well you know what after 7 months of listening to the sub with the gain set right not a problem. A little over a month of the gain set higher than supposed to and a little hard pounding oh...... sure enough. The cone has "tears." Hmm abuse and inappropriate use is correct!!!


FWIW, my cone didn't break, but it crinkled. My gains were and are still set at minimum (I'm running 1200w to it). When it happened, I posted about it and someone said to use a HP filter down there. So I did that (24db @ 20hz, amp filter) and it hasn't gotten any worse. I never experienced any of those popping sounds that people talked about. In fact, I only happened to notice that it was crinkled because I was looking at something on the passenger side of my truck and something looked weird. It still sounded great then and still sounds great now.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

solacedagony said:


> FWIW, my cone didn't break, but it crinkled. My gains were and are still set at minimum (I'm running 1200w to it). When it happened, I posted about it and someone said to use a HP filter down there. So I did that (24db @ 20hz, amp filter) and it hasn't gotten any worse. I never experienced any of those popping sounds that people talked about. In fact, I only happened to notice that it was crinkled because I was looking at something on the passenger side of my truck and something looked weird. It still sounded great then and still sounds great now.


can you post a photo?

im keeping my fingers crossed that mine lasts long time! if not i hope a new version is made! if not, i would just get it reconed


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## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

Currently no recones are available, trust me, I've talked to everyone from Npdang to Scott at FI... it just isn't available yet. A new version may come out though. However, you can be on the look out for a new cone in the coming months.

But yes, I would like to see more pics of the destroyed DIYMAs.

-Brad


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

I've had mine for awhile now and I still love every bit of it. 

It gets loud enough for me, sounds great, and best of all, it doesn't take up half of my trunk space. 

Truely a bang for the buck. I like it even more than my old IDMAX


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

I haven't had any issues with the sub crinkling, but I did get the pops when I had my gains set too highs playing at higher volumes. It was corrected a couple days after I got the sub and has not been a problem since.


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## Fixtion (Aug 25, 2006)

I am currently running my Diyma 12 is a 1.208 cu.ft sealed enclosure no poly fill. I've had no issues while running it off my Lunar 100x2 @ 4 Ohm Mono = 400 Watts x 1. Since the first shipment I've run the sub with no sub sonic filter and x-over with on board Eclipse 8443's features. Excellent transition to the point of fading into the soundfield rather than a separate driver in the truck of a car playing sub frequencies. I love it's optimal performing characteristics but . . . I have noticed the surround on the diyma is by far the thinnest and less beefy surrounds I've encountered. I almost feel as though the surround doesn't control the woofer as much as say the motor. In other words the surround is merely attached to limit at the xmax, which in turns is like a last ditch anchor to the baskets frame rather than a controlling device which works in conjunction with the motor. Honestly I feel the surround isn't sufficient in controlling the excursion of which the motor can perform and "yanks" the cone back to the frame, causing snaps and deformations of the cone. The Motor may be more capable of the limits and properties of the surround. I've come to these conclusions from merely watching the behavior of the cone in comparison to other drivers I've observed. Personally the Diyma moves way too freely without adequate suspension/tension from it's surround. 

-Fixtion


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

The surround isn't mainly responsible for controlling the cone motion. It's for the most part the motor, and to a small degree the compliance of the spider and surround, and the driver's mass. Comparing the qes and qms of almost any driver will give you a good indication of this. 

As far as the surround durability/performance, it's a low loss rubber surround which works well with the stiff straight profile cone, provides the correct compliance, and it has enough throw to match the spiders and motor capabilities perfectly (take a look at the bl/cms curves).


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

has anyone figured out what the popping sound was? i think i may know, when i dismantled my DIYMA i noticed that there was cup like thing over the vent in the motor, this cup had a screen inside it. when i removed the cone i noticed that this little cup appeared dented and that the dust cover of the cone had marks on the underside of it. it looks like when over exurted the cone starts bashing into this cup/screen, causing the popping sound and possibly warping the cone as well. soon after, with reduced strength, the pressure blows a hole in the cone. just a thought.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I can't wait to get my DIYMA12 installed. I was lucky enough to win one during one of Mr. Marv's raffle's and I just hit town so it's time to get it shipped to me.


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## hoamic11 (May 7, 2007)

so ndpang, can you comment/state what maybe other reasons to why some guys are blowing this sub up, and do you know how well it would work in a home audio use?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

hoamic11 said:


> so ndpang, can you comment/state what maybe other reasons to why some guys are blowing this sub up, and do you know how well it would work in a home audio use?


My take is that perhaps people are simply driving it too hard... looking for say Idmax output, rather than Adire Shiva/Peerless XXLS type of output. It is a bit deceptive because of the high xmax of the driver, but the goal wasn't necessarily to provide higher output, rather improved linearity and lower distortion over what I would consider a typical displacement range (12-15mm one way) for SQ use. 

Compared to alot of other high displacement drivers (with the exception of a few, notably the w7, xbl^2 drivers, certain underhung motors) you do not see the same kind of centering and extended plateau as you do with the DIYMA. Think of it as a Peerless XXLS, but with beefier coils to shed heat, lower inductance, a more extended bl/cms plateau, and a higher compliance for small enclosures... in other words a cleaner and more effortless sound, albeit not necessarily louder. 

As far as home audio use, the sub doesn't know whether you're using it in the home or car... although generally I recommend a passive radiator for the home and sealed box for the car.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Np, has anyone used say a 15" PR with the DIYMA 12?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I haven't, but I used 2 12" PR's.... made by TC sounds


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Np very appropriate


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

How did you like the DIYMA in a PR alignment?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I like it. Greatly improves the low end sensitivity in the home. The TC PR's are one of the best I've seen.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I got my DIYMA installed last night running off a U.S. Amps XT 1600.2. Lowpassed at 80Hz @ 18db/Oct with subsonic filter set at 30Hz. I have only had about 40 minutes of listening time so far, but the little time I've had has been very impressive. I couldn't quite understand what people were saying when they commented that the DIYMA "disappeared." But now that I've listened to it I know exactly what they meant!! I'll post again after I get more listening time in.

Off topic, but the XT1600.2 is an overlooked amp IMHO. For the $175 new I paid for it off of ebay it's one hell of an amp. Built in subsonic filter, clean look, and delivers every bit of rated power. I'd say that it's a pretty good deal. The only downside is that it's an AB amp and only capable of 4ohm mono configuration.

Zach


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## kornsined (Feb 22, 2008)

Does anyone think I'd have any issues running this off a Hifonics Zx6000? ([email protected])


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## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

Mostly depends on user there .. Personally I think it's fine. I think that's what my brother is using on his Shiva. 600w should be plenty of power.

SSF for safety and careful w/gains/volume knob? I dunno mine's on a PDX 1.1000 and I've been fine.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

kornsined said:


> Does anyone think I'd have any issues running this off a Hifonics Zx6000? ([email protected])


Searchhhhhhhh


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Yes, you should be just fine. But do take the time to set your gains correctly. My DIYMA sees more than 600w RMS, 800w RMS to be exact, and I haven't had any issues at all.


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## kornsined (Feb 22, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Searchhhhhhhh



Seriously do you think if I didn't search that I would be posting in this thread?


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

kornsined said:


> Seriously do you think if I didn't search that I would be posting in this thread?


Ok, common sense then. Do you think 600w rms is or is not enough? Have you put forth the effort to model up the sub and see what output you might be seeing off that wattage? Have you read through other DIYMA posts looking for the numerous mentions of people using various amounts of power with the sub?  There is a difference between a quick search and an in-depth one. I'm saying this because I have already read posts stating used power by many individuals who run this sub. The information _is_ there.

Blah, blah, blah, to answer your question, you're perfectly fine. The sub is decently efficient, and you will be fine off relatively low wattage. It really just depends on how loud you want to run it. So far I've run mine off a 400w rms amp and a 300w plate amp, both do just fine. I would suggest a little more wattage though for anyone who really want to bump. The sub fairs well off low power. At some point, it will just get a little blaty in sound when it starts wanting more power to move right, similar to underdriving a midrange or anything else. Just keep the gains set right on the amp so you maintain a clean signal. If you need more power, you need more power. In a SQ oriented install, just a few hundred watts will go far.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

mvw2 said:


> Ok, common sense then. Do you think 600w rms is or is not enough? Have you put forth the effort to model up the sub and see what output you might be seeing off that wattage? Have you read through other DIYMA posts looking for the numerous mentions of people using various amounts of power with the sub?  There is a difference between a quick search and an in-depth one. I'm saying this because I have already read posts stating used power by many individuals who run this sub. The information _is_ there.
> 
> Blah, blah, blah, to answer your question, you're perfectly fine. The sub is decently efficient, and you will be fine off relatively low wattage. It really just depends on how loud you want to run it. So far I've run mine off a 400w rms amp and a 300w plate amp, both do just fine. I would suggest a little more wattage though for anyone who really want to bump. The sub fairs well off low power. At some point, it will just get a little blaty in sound when it starts wanting more power to move right, similar to underdriving a midrange or anything else. Just keep the gains set right on the amp so you maintain a clean signal. If you need more power, you need more power. In a SQ oriented install, just a few hundred watts will go far.


For some odd reason this man speaks truth......just trying to figure out why.... 

The Diyma can take anything from 5w-1k, depending on box size .1cf-1.5cf and listening preferences.

Really...Love mine on 500rms .9cf, ungodly extension for a single driver, perfect blending, and with a REALLY beafy midbass department shouldn't need to run it over 50hz 24db, 200w should be plenty imho, BUT i don't exactly know how you treat subs (how many have you burned up or ruined in any way), nor your listening preferences......(DIYMA isint exactly the loudest sub out there, but it sure as hell is Clean, (not ideal for RAP/Bass music)


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

demon2091tb said:


> (not ideal for RAP/Bass music)


It does the job for me for that kind of "music" very well 

and word on the 500w mark if you like it loud. about that is great for some volume.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Hi guys,

After more detailed testing and driving 3 woofers to complete cone failure, I can say that for a fact smaller enclosures will dramatically reduce powerhandling. I tested a 1cft box, a .25cft box, and free-air. 

In free-air I can be very close to xmax for a sustained 30mins without any problems. Pushing it beyond that required significantly more power, and I could bend the cone instantly with a hard enough kick/pop or sustained low frequency tone at near xmech... at which time I could also see clipping indicators going off on my 1400w amp. With a cheaper sub, you'd probably fry the cone at this point.

In the 1cft box, it's almost as good as free-air. Your excursion capability is reduced somewhat though. It's kind of noticeable to the eye, but it doesn't seem significant. I don't think many people would have problems here, but again it's possible if you're really pushing the sub hard.... you can definitely tell that things become more "violent" and not as effortless as before.

In a .25cft to .5cft with the same power there is significantly reduced excursion, but you can immediately tell that the "sound" is much less effortless. I couldn't get the driver to move very far at all even with a full range high amplitude signal. Hard use here will immediately bend the cone. Funny I can see one bend after another appearing slowly, even though the sub isn't moving nearly as much as before. It also has this much much more "violent" sound to it, as if it's struggling in that tiny box.

So my advice, if you're more of a "sq" oriented listener who balanced their sub to match their frontstage, you should be fine with a .25 to .5cft box. 

For those that like a bit of bump and window vibrating, you always keep your levels +3db or higher on the sub... I'd stick with a 1cft box.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

interesting findings. makes sense. i just love this thing in 1 cube box.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

yermolovd said:


> interesting findings. makes sense. i just love this thing in 1 cube box.



me too, i HATE myself that I sold mine (wish I could store drivers and still feed my addiciton)

just dont think anything around "sounds" better

last drivers I want to try are the mw190, rainbow vanadiums, and the new PG RSDCs and then im back to the diyma's I think


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## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

Currently .85cuft or so on PDX 1.1000 & all sorts of music. I even threw a couple SoSoDef Bass Allstars tracks at it. It's still good.

20hz (ssf) to 63hz (24db)


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

yermolovd said:


> It does the job for me for that kind of "music" very well
> 
> and word on the 500w mark if you like it loud. about that is great for some volume.


Oh does the job very well for me as well, just wanted to squeek that in there. **** gets low and very effortless. 40hz 12db right now and it seems to blend VERY well, with ALOT of low end rumblage. Nice little -1db .5Q centered at 45hz for a little better midbass/sub integration.

Really comes alive on some Shpongle, Once upon a sea of Blissful Awareness (LOW end rumble, earthy techno)

Intresting findings as well Dang. Its been in my head for awhile that the smaller boxes have been the culprit for awhile, just no proof really. IE higher internal pressure for a realtively high excursion motor. High amplitude notes in a small enclosure have no where to go but the weakest point in the enclosure, in this case the cone. In larger boxes the air spring is reduced significantly allowing lower internal pressue inside the box for high amplitude notes. Is there any way to test pressure inside the box, and figure out how much pressure is needed to crumple the cone?

You've no idea how much i'm wanting to put my other DIYMA in. Again thanks Dang for one hell of a SQ woofer.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Thanks npdang for your efforts. It does make sense because this is such a small box sub. When modeled up, it uses a tremendously low amount of its available excursion. In "small" enclosures, you're really not using more than you would with a midwoofer, even off a considerable amount of wattage. For example, even at 1000w, a DIYMA in a 0.25 cu.ft. sealed box will use up only 10mm of excursion, basically the xmech of a Seas midwoofer. Still, you're shoving 1kw into the thing and it is providing a good deal of output. The forces have to go somewhere and the cone is the structure that has the carry the load. Unfortunately, thin metal materials have a tendency to crumple, generally requiring support ribs of a sort. Actually I wouldn't mind seeing a thinner material cone, but something like a two layer setup with a honeycomb core.

A note for some of you folks, feel free to try a ported/PR enclosure. I am still absolutely loving mine in-house. The low end response isn't even bad, not even overpowering, but I would call it full and effortless. 

I'm not sure, but it might have to make its way back into my car despite me trying to step to a subless install.  ...especially since I recently acquired a PG X600.1 for cheap and I've got nothing to use it on, lol.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

demon2091tb said:


> In larger boxes the air spring is reduced significantly allowing lower internal pressue inside the box for high amplitude notes. Is there any way to test pressure inside the box, and figure out how much pressure is needed to crumple the cone?
> 
> You've no idea how much i'm wanting to put my other DIYMA in. Again thanks Dang for one hell of a SQ woofer.


You could put a PSIA guage [in the box, just thread it into the side or back, etc.., ]


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the support guys, I can't tell you how much it means to me.

I'm glad I finally put that one to rest though. Internal pressure is usually the last thing you'd think of, but then again you don't usually use box sizes this small.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

89grand,

Says it can get quite warm in Arizona [ 120 degrees in summer time ] !

I'm not going to throw mine in the oven to test it ! 

I asked what if anything special ,[fans ], he used for cooling his stuff, he said he didn't use any


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