# Another Matt Roberts install. BMW 535i



## audiguy

Seems like you guys enjoyed the Kevin K build log so much, I thought you might want to see the build that Matt used as the warm up to Kevin's install. This isn't one you would complain about a $40k install in a $4K car.

This all started when I knew I had to get a new company car because my Audi A4 had a dying transmission. I had done the install (if you could call it that) on the Audi last year. Due to my job and family, I don’t have much time to do installs.
The car I decided to get was the BMW 535i (say "driver’s car"). I knew that not only did I not have the time to do an install on that car, I didn’t have the talent either. Matt Roberts got me into the car audio competition scene a couple of years ago, so knowing his talents, I turned to him to do an install on the Bimmer.
My design goals for the Bimmer were way different than the Audi. Though I want the BMW to sound as good as possible, it’s first mission is to be the driver’s car that it was when I bought it. That said, these where the design goals that I started with:
•	Maintain the stock look of the car on the interior
•	As stealth as is practical elsewhere
•	Very little weight gain. Can add up to 150lbs to the rear and maintain perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Stay as close to that as possible.
•	Use the factory HU and produce from that Logic 7 sound without using the factory amp outputs.
•	Don’t fry the warranty
•	Can get rid of the spare as I use run-flat tires.
•	Don’t cut metal.
•	Make sure that it stays a BMW. In other words, this isn’t a 1994 Honda that you can torch to put a stereo in.


----------



## 03blueSI

Where are the pics?


----------



## kevin k.

audiguy said:


> •	Make sure that it stays a BMW. In other words, this isn’t a 1994 Honda that you can torch to put a stereo in.




Admittedly, I haven't seen it in a while, but last Matt told me, my Honda is still a Honda.


----------



## Mic10is

audiguy said:


> Seems like you guys enjoyed the Kevin K build log so much, I thought you might want to see the build that Matt used as the warm up to Kevin's install. This isn't one you would complain about a $40k install in a $4K car.
> 
> This all started when I knew I had to get a new company car because my Audi A4 had a dying transmission. I had done the install (if you could call it that) on the Audi last year. Due to my job and family, I don’t have much time to do installs.
> The car I decided to get was the BMW 535i (say "driver’s car"). I knew that not only did I not have the time to do an install on that car, I didn’t have the talent either. Matt Roberts got me into the car audio competition scene a couple of years ago, so knowing his talents, I turned to him to do an install on the Bimmer.
> My design goals for the Bimmer were way different than the Audi. Though I want the BMW to sound as good as possible, it’s first mission is to be the driver’s car that it was when I bought it. That said, these where the design goals that I started with:
> •	Maintain the stock look of the car on the interior
> •	As stealth as is practical elsewhere
> •	Very little weight gain. Can add up to 150lbs to the rear and maintain perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Stay as close to that as possible.
> •	Use the factory HU and produce from that Logic 7 sound without using the factory amp outputs.
> •	Don’t fry the warranty
> •	Can get rid of the spare as I use run-flat tires.
> •	Don’t cut metal.
> •	Make sure that it stays a BMW. In other words, this isn’t a 1994 Honda that you can torch to put a stereo in.


um Randy you left out one big Key Detail which I am sure Matt will remind you of as well--all the above is 7 weeks or less


----------



## Mless5

e34? Subscribed.


----------



## tintbox

All type and no pics.

Make sure that it stays a BMW. In other words, this isn’t a 1994 Honda that you can torch to put a stereo in. Are you kidding me?


----------



## audiguy

Mless5 said:


> e34? Subscribed.


Pretty sure it is an E60


----------



## audiguy

kevin k. said:


> Admittedly, I haven't seen it in a while, but last Matt told me, my Honda is still a Honda.


Kevin-

Hope I didn't offend. Point was that with a "driver's car" like a BMW, weight and strength at certain points is a big issue.


----------



## ErinH

I've heard a good bit about your car, Randy. Looking forward to seeing pictures.

*subscribed


----------



## audiguy

I thought I had a couple of general pics of the car that I could post up tonight and then Matt could take it from there with some install pics. I can't seem to find mine though. Give me a minute.


----------



## audiguy

Here is a before and after pic of the interior. One picture because they are the same.


----------



## audiguy

Matt accepted the challenge, but I think he struggled with the design goals. Matt kept wanting to put the stereo before the car. I appreciated his input because had we done it my way, we would have ended up with a half ass system. Matt kept wanting it to be world class. We had a lot of conversations where he kept bringing up a solution that involved a plasma cutter...
After we agreed on a plan and I sent the car to Matt, he called up with a couple of ideas on the amps and the line driver. I was the first one with the Zapco amp mods. I did those on the front 3 amps. The rest are the basic C2K's.


----------



## audiguy

So here is the set-up:
Factory HU, which also includes a USB and IPod input and Sirius
Via MOST fiber network-
To the factory amp, which was tapped into after the DAC and pre, but before the power amp (I bought one off EBay for experimentation)
To a 30-1 line driver taking my ½ volt signal up to 10 volts that Matt and his friend Mike Grainger made.
To the following:
3-Zapco C2K2.0’s bridged mono feeding the front L, C, R channels. These amps have the class A conversions (and run hot as hell). Of note is that the door speakers are passively crossed at 9K? to the factory tweets in the sails.
1-Zapco C2K2.5 bridged mono feeding what was the subs under the seats. These were replaced with Illusion Audio ND8’s doing MB duty from 40 to 160hz.
1-Zapco C2K3.0 that Matt modded with the parts into a 6.0 to run a Hertz Mille 15 sub in the trunk.
1-Zapco DSP6 processor to run all that stuff
1-Zapco DC360.4 4 channel amp with its own processing to run the rear four channels. We just used the stock speakers.
Pretty sure that comes up to ten channels of amplification. As I see it the new ground breaking stuff in this install is:
•	World class install in a late model BMW 5
•	Class A Zapco amps (now a factory offered standard)
•	Logic 7 using the car processor, but not going through the amps chanells
•	All while maintaining a 50/50 weight distribution
Maybe Matt can comment at this point on the design and some of the challenges he faced.


----------



## Xclusive

looking fwd to seeing pics!


----------



## thehatedguy

There is an 06 M5 on here that my buddy Mark is doing...all Audison Thesis speakers. Would that be world class?


----------



## Matt R

Hey, so here is the factory trunk taken apart.


----------



## audiguy

OK, let's get started. Maybe we can get you guys some pictures. If you don't mind, I prefer to go in order. One of the design goals was to use the factory HU and the factory Logic 7 system but not be encumbered by the distortion of the factory amp. 

The system runs fiber via a MOST network to the amp. There all the processing is done and then amplified. So the first thing I did was bought a factory amp off of EBay and a spare wiring harness to go with it. I brought the amp and the car to Matt's where he spent two weeks figuring out how to interface with the factory amp. Since that amp gets its signal from a MOST fiber, there is no way to test it without the car. In short, he found that he was basically able to unsolder the factory amplifier from the preamp and processing. That was run to a line driver that then multiplied the signal something like 30 times. Keep in mind, because of the Logic 7 processing, there are 10 channels to deal with.

After the line driver, 6 channels went to a DSP6 and 4 went to a DC360.4 for the rears.

After figuring all of that out, I took the car back and gave Matt a month or two to figure out the line driver and do the class A conversions on the amps. That way, when I brought it back later he could just bolt all that stuff in.

I got Matt to take a break from dealing with Kevin's car so he could help me with some pictures and stuff.


----------



## audiguy

Oh and by the way, the system has ZERO noise. NONE.


----------



## audiguy

That finned aluminum thing on the left side of the trunk is the factory amp.


----------



## Matt R

So we had plans of putting a 15 in the side of the trunk so we had to rearange things. I chopped grinded and welded the brackets and moved all the wire harnesses th get all this stuff out of the way. On the right we added a Batcap power pack which is basically a 35 farad cap and a batcap 400 in one box.


----------



## Matt R

So this is the factory amp, Randy sent it to me before he brought the car. That allowed me to take it apart and identify the parts and see what we had to start with. I was very pleased to see an Analog Devices 24bit delta-sigma DAC. That looked like a great place to retrieve the signal, before it goes through the factory amp but after the digital logic 7 processing.


----------



## Matt R

Here is the amp done!!


----------



## Matt R

The output connector was taken off the board, the majority of the connections are speaker output so that all needed to be redirected to the Zapco amps. The idea was to not cut or tap into the factory harness. Thats why the connector was taken off the factory amp.


----------



## audiguy

Of course, I had no idea that I had signed up for this level of sophistication.


----------



## Matt R

Nothing pretty here, Symbilink outputs were added to the factory ampss endpanel


----------



## Matt R

Here is the preamp/factory interface/line driver. It's the fully discrete Class A technology that Mike Granger and myself have been working on. The gain had to be much higher than we had ever done before. The voltage coming out of the DAC was .3v at it's max. That meant it needed over 30X gain to feed the Zapco amps what they want.


----------



## Matt R

Oh yeah, all of this is 100% handmade electronics. From the boards being cut on my table saw to them being etched in a pan in Mikes kitchen. All hand soldered and matched components.


----------



## ErinH

this is fuggin' ridiculous!


----------



## Sex Cells

oh wow. do you have a site? im assuming you can do this for other makes and models as well?


----------



## Matt R

Sex Cells said:


> oh wow. do you have a site? im assuming you can do this for other makes and models as well?


We don't have a web site yet, we're looking forward to doing that this coming year. We are still trying to figure out what we want to market. We are working on a 2ch production model of the line driver/balanced preamp. The custom stuff can be made too, just contact me.

Thanks, Matt


----------



## Matt R

So the install begins with the trunk, we need to get all the amps in the tire well. I started with cutting out the tire hold down tower and welding in a flat piece of sheetmetal. Then I needed to make a template of the bottom of the tire well to make an amp rack.


----------



## Oliver

Looking great ! Matt and Audiguy


----------



## Matt R

I put 1" blocks in the bottom of the well to leave room for the wiring. Then I cut a thin piece of plywood a bit short so I could mold it to the sides for a perfect template.


----------



## 12vTools

Winslow said you were a BEAST Matt,
he wasn't kidding.


----------



## Matt R

I attached the template to a piece of 3/16" aluminum and traced it with my router.


----------



## Matt R

I drilled the amp rack for mounts then welded threaded tabs to the car, making sure things stayed level and flat.


----------



## Mic10is

not to spoil the end result for anyone--but in the end there is Very little if any flash and the car looks very much like any other run in the mill trunk liner install-which was one of the goals. BUT after hearing Randy and Matt talk about how much went into this install as far as modifications to equipment, and all the extra stuff that went into each panel etc...this quickly became one of my favorite installs.
all these electronic mods are absolutely redonculous!! capiche redonclulous!


----------



## Matt R

This is the first mock up, if you can call it that. It gave me the idea of what would and wouldn't fit.


----------



## kapone

Another absolutely amazing piece of work.

Matta, lemme ask you a question about the amp bypass that you did. Since that stock amp has built in crossovers in addition to amplification, at what point in the signal chain in the factory amp were you able to tap, in order to retain the processing, but not the crossovers?

And I'm assuming you wanted to do the crossovers outside, right? Because those factory crossovers are mated to the factory speakers...


----------



## tinctorus

WOW man you really do truly incredible work

I wish I had the money to just send my car to you and say have fun and let me know when it's done...


----------



## Kenny_Cox

your skills are awe inspiring. Good stuff man.


----------



## audiguy

kapone said:


> Another absolutely amazing piece of work.
> 
> Matta, lemme ask you a question about the amp bypass that you did. Since that stock amp has built in crossovers in addition to amplification, at what point in the signal chain in the factory amp were you able to tap, in order to retain the processing, but not the crossovers?
> 
> And I'm assuming you wanted to do the crossovers outside, right? Because those factory crossovers are mated to the factory speakers...


To get the factory processing, we had no choice but to keep the factory crossovers. From the factory, the subs (under the seat), handle everything from 160hz down. So by changing that speaker to a midbass and adding a sub, we are able to cross it any way we want. The midbass to midrange is a little trickier. There we had to keep the factory crossover points. And unfortunately, the factory crossover points had a bit of a gap at 160. If you were to look at my EQ on the DSP6, you would see that there are some CRAZY EQ curves where I basically undid that gap and did it the way I wanted.


----------



## kapone

audiguy said:


> To get the factory processing, we had no choice but to keep the factory crossovers. From the factory, the subs (under the seat), handle everything from 160hz down. So by changing that speaker to a midbass and adding a sub, we are able to cross it any way we want. The midbass to midrange is a little trickier. There we had to keep the factory crossover points. And unfortunately, the factory crossover points had a bit of a gap at 160. If you were to look at my EQ on the DSP6, you would see that there are some CRAZY EQ curves where I basically undid that gap and did it the way I wanted.


Gotcha. I was just wondering. Those factory amps are way too integrated, which is what piqued my curiosity, and that MOST bus....sigh...it's a *itch to work with...


----------



## tinctorus

kapone said:


> Gotcha. I was just wondering. Those factory amps are way too integrated, which is what piqued my curiosity, and that MOST bus....sigh...it's a *itch to work with...


NO KIDDING!!!

I hate messing with the newer MOST systems in the cars I mean they really make everything overly complicated to try and integrate with

I really have been reading up on how the most system works and have a 30 page summary of them at work but for the life of me cant figure out why the companies that are using them would want to daisy chain the entire car together in such a fashion that if one component goes out they all go out...


----------



## ThipN

Subscribed.


----------



## sqhhr

Your awesome Matt. I see why Steve Mc comes to you. You do excellent work.


----------



## kapone

tinctorus said:


> I really have been reading up on how the most system works and have a 30 page summary of them at work but for the life of me cant figure out why the companies that are using them would want to daisy chain the entire car together in such a fashion that if one component goes out they all go out...


That's because the way BMW has implemented the MOST network in their vehicles is a "ring network". (as opposed to a more fault tolerant, but expensive star topology). With a ring network, every device on the network acts as a connection node in addition to whatever it's doing. Meaning, it has to let all "other" MOST traffic through on the fiber when it's not taking any part in the traffic, and when it IS, it adds its traffic to the overall stream.

A MOST stream can exceed 50mbps at any given point!

The problem is that when you disconnect a device from a MOST (ring) network, that connection "node" breaks the circuit and the whole ring goes down. It's not that that all other devices have gone down, it's just that the sentient stream got interrupted and the devices can no longer talk. If you were to patch that connection node back using a simple fiber adapter (with no device), I can promise you that all other devices will "work".

Now of course, if for e.g. if you removed the amp, then you would get no sound, but all other devices WILL work.

The ring topology is just cheaper to implement. The star topology would have involved a switch/router and addressing schemes, that I'm sure add way too much to the cost.


----------



## Matt R

g0a said:


> Winslow said you were a BEAST Matt,
> he wasn't kidding.


Aww, he was probobly talking about being big, hairy, ugly and sometimes stinky. I am kinda beast like

No, thanks man.

Thanks to all of you, I'll get some more pics up later tonight. I got to get some more work done right now.


----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R

The sharks are circling


----------



## Matt R

If you notice the shark fins on the right are layed back a few degrees more than the ones on the left. This bought me a bit more room as far as the height of the amps go. I don't remember exactly what the angle was I think it's wrote down on the piece in one of the pics. Anyways the amp at the back of the car is layed back about 13* more than the one closest to the front of the car. I think it was like 2-2.5 degrees each amp.


----------



## Matt R

So here is the first mock up on the rack. Notice I made the mounts short so they wouldn't take up too much room . The amps mounting feet were also cut down.


----------



## Matt R

And the first pics of it test fitted in the car. 

Sick Huh!!!


----------



## Matt R

This is how it looked before it went to get coated. Full of holes. I was able to sneak the dsp 6 in the back.


----------



## Matt R

The rear amp is a DC360.4 inside a C2K 4.0 case. Because of the amp swap I needed to run the wires through the side of the amp case.


----------



## Matt R

I made modular blocks that bolt to the amp rack, the square hole on the left is where audio signal is going to come through. The square hole on the right is where power will connect. I'll show the wiring later.


----------



## Matt R

Here's the goods!! Powder coated black with a decent texture.


----------



## Matt R

This is the signal cable block that will mount to the amprack. It's 1/2" abs with Amphanol military spec connectors. I'll solder symbilink cable and speaker cables to this.


----------



## Matt R

This is the other side, where power will come up through the amp rack.
These are the same connectors we use to plug our cars into our power supplies. They are just smaller, made for 12-8 gauge.


----------



## tinctorus

kapone said:


> That's because the way BMW has implemented the MOST network in their vehicles is a "ring network". (as opposed to a more fault tolerant, but expensive star topology). With a ring network, every device on the network acts as a connection node in addition to whatever it's doing. Meaning, it has to let all "other" MOST traffic through on the fiber when it's not taking any part in the traffic, and when it IS, it adds its traffic to the overall stream.
> 
> A MOST stream can exceed 50mbps at any given point!
> 
> The problem is that when you disconnect a device from a MOST (ring) network, that connection "node" breaks the circuit and the whole ring goes down. It's not that that all other devices have gone down, it's just that the sentient stream got interrupted and the devices can no longer talk. If you were to patch that connection node back using a simple fiber adapter (with no device), I can promise you that all other devices will "work".
> 
> Now of course, if for e.g. if you removed the amp, then you would get no sound, but all other devices WILL work.
> 
> The ring topology is just cheaper to implement. The star topology would have involved a switch/router and addressing schemes, that I'm sure add way too much to the cost.


Thank's for the rundown on that man I really appreciate it as I have been trying to better myself as an installer as I am sure most installers like to do by reading up on how the most systems works and the differences between the ones the different car manufactures use"bmw,mercedes and others" in order to help me determine how to best integrate and work WITH the factory equipment as opposes to AROUND it you know.


----------



## tinctorus

Matt R said:


> So here is the first mock up on the rack. Notice I made the mounts short so they wouldn't take up too much room . The amps mounting feet were also cut down.


So the dsp6 is only needed for the largest amp since it does not have internal processing?


----------



## Matt R

So the floor needed to be raised 1.5" in the back of the car . To keep things light but still solid I used 1/4" abs. I blocked it up and supported it then filled it with polyurethene foam. Trimmed it and covered it with carpet to match. The idea was to make this look like I didn't do anything.


----------



## Matt R

tinctorus said:


> So the dsp6 is only needed for the largest amp since it does not have internal processing?


No it's actually the other way around. The longest amp has internal processing and is 4 channels, it does the 4 rear surround speakers.


----------



## thehatedguy

Broke out the spool gun for some fun huh?


----------



## jorgegarcia

Matt R said:


> ]


That, to me, is Sexy. Big time. :2thumbsup:


----------



## audiguy

You know I think it is a great install Matt. But great job on the presentation also. It really highlights all the hard work you did.


----------



## audiguy

I don't think Matt mentioned it, but the main reason for the choice of aluminum for the amp rack was the whole weight and weight distribution thing--though it looks cool also.


----------



## Matt R

Just like giving a demo, you got to show off what you got.

Thanks man, theres more to come. Stll have the finished amp rack, sub enclosure, trim panels,ect.


----------



## chithead

This is artwork here...


----------



## Kenny_Cox

that amp rack is something to desire. All those C2K's! I know, one is really a DC in hiding but still. Hot! I cannot even manage to afford a pair of them, the last two builds you've done have had like 15, and modded! Envy is setting in now.


----------



## Matt R

Here's a pair of 'em breaking in on the bench being used as monoblocks. Little McIntosh to go along with it.


----------



## arrivalanche

crazy man. Ive done install for 14 years and I have a hard time following what you just did.


----------



## Matt R




----------



## Mless5

Jeeezbus man, I am in shock!!!


----------



## thehatedguy

It's a good looking install in person. Some of it like the trunk floor you would think was stock. Didn't get to hear this car yet, but if it's like the Audi, then it will be badassed for sure.


----------



## MaXaZoR

Matt,
Not sure if you referenced this in your post, but why does it look like some of the C2K case in the front are "empty" or have a gray type material in front of the holes.


----------



## audiguy

Hey Matt

When are you going to show them the trunk shot? Does that come after the sub? I think they want to see the trunk shot.


----------



## Sex Cells

Matt R said:


> Here's a pair of 'em breaking in on the bench being used as monoblocks. Little McIntosh to go along with it.


judging by all those post it notes it looks like you have a lot of stuff going on.


----------



## tinctorus

Can I ask what the purpose of "breaking in" the amp's is??

I've never heard of that being done before,Ive only ever heard of breaking in speaker's


----------



## The Dude

Sick fabrication/finishing work here. Subscribed. Nice having a McIntosh deck to use for testing........ I use an old CDA-7940 for that purpose at home.


----------



## Matt R

Matt R said:


>


Hey Randy, I already gave some of the money shot. You need to look at your own thread


----------



## Matt R

MaXaZoR said:


> Matt,
> Not sure if you referenced this in your post, but why does it look like some of the C2K case in the front are "empty" or have a gray type material in front of the holes.


Those are the first prototype Zapco Class A amps. The speaker terminal lets you know the main board is in there. All the other stuff that is missing is on the stock input board. In the Class A amps the stock input board is replaced with an all discrete class A input board.


----------



## Matt R

tinctorus said:


> Can I ask what the purpose of "breaking in" the amp's is??
> 
> I've never heard of that being done before,Ive only ever heard of breaking in speaker's


These amps are highly modified, If you notice in the pic the 2 2.0's are drawing over 15 amps of current from a 13.8 volt power supply at idle. Normally they would be drawing between 2-3 amps. Anyways, the push/pull class A bias is increased by manytimes and a single ended class A circuit is added. These have to be monitored very close at the begining. The amps can cycle up and down till they get up to operating temps. Amps without the single ended circuit can take over an hour to get up to temp. The nature of the circuit allows the output transistors draw more current as they get hotter. You really have to watch em, and set the bias very carefully.

On another note alot of highend electronics companies believe in break in of their components. Some of the best electronic parts manufacturers recomend a break in period too. I'm not a member of either camp on this one but it cant hurt to play electronics for a week or so before you really get started tuning or doing serious listening.


----------



## Matt R

So here is he start of the sub enclosure. I had to call in a little help on this one cuz I only had 7 weeks. My good bud Eric Parker came and put in about 4 hours and made the wood frame you see. Anyways, there is a tripple birch baffle, and its bolted into the floor and angle brace.


----------



## bboyvek

wow

Im shocked


----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R

So raising the floor meant I had to cut and section every panel in the trunk. Here I took the factory trim panel cut it in half and trimmed it to the shape I was thinking about and glassed it to the sub enclosure.


----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R




----------



## Kenny_Cox

it's just so impressive, it blends so well, shocking. I wish i could afford to pay somebody with your talent to work on my truck.

****, I wish there was somebody around here capable.


----------



## Hernan

Wow!


----------



## audiguy

Matt R said:


> Hey Randy, I already gave some of the money shot. You need to look at your own thread


I'm reading my own thread (from an IPhone in an airport). I'm talking about the stealth trunk money shot.


----------



## keep_hope_alive

damn. amazing skill, forethought, execution, and style.


----------



## slvrtsunami

Sign of a master.....make the extreme LOOK easy to do. Truly impressive.


----------



## Matt R

audiguy said:


> I'm reading my own thread (from an IPhone in an airport). I'm talking about the stealth trunk money shot.


You know man I remember taking those pics but cant find em to save my life. Send em to me if you have em.

Thanks, guys. I worked hard on this sucker!!


----------



## rollininstyle2004

Looks great so far!


----------



## Damo98

wow... impressive....


----------



## bertholomey

So that is the BMW you mentioned - fantastic job! And to think I was trying to figure out where to put 3 amps  Brilliant!


----------



## JayinMI

That looks sweet. What sub is that? and how much airspace is in the enclosure?

Jay


----------



## bafukie

impressive.... just so impressive...


----------



## Matt R

bertholomey said:


> So that is the BMW you mentioned - fantastic job! And to think I was trying to figure out where to put 3 amps  Brilliant!



Yeah man, thanks. You were about the only person I invited down to see it while I was building it. Glad you like it.


----------



## Matt R

JayinMI said:


> That looks sweet. What sub is that? and how much airspace is in the enclosure?
> 
> Jay


It's the Hertz Mille 15. Its really a huge sub I think it was almost 11" deep!!

Hertz reccomends a 1.2 - 1.6 cuft for this sub. Thats one of the main reasons we went with it. I believe we got about 1.3 - 1.4 out of it. This was done earlier in the year so some of the small details are a little fuzzy.

I have to say the Hertz subs are the best thing they have, although I haven't heard the Thesis stuff yet. I'm about to do an install with a friend that is gonna have a couple 12"s.


----------



## audiguy

Matt R said:


> You know man I remember taking those pics but cant find em to save my life. Send em to me if you have em.
> 
> Thanks, guys. I worked hard on this sucker!!


That might take a day or two. I don't have my computer on this trip.

And guys believe Matt when he says he worked hard. When I get to my computer I'll post a pick of the trunk in normal usage mode. It looks like a stock trunk with a sub added (I didn't want to cover up the sub). And of course the interior looks stock also. So we kept the design goal of leaving the BMW a BMW.

I'm definitely happy with it.


----------



## ErinH

where did the spare wind up?


----------



## KAPendley

Is this the same Randy that had the Audi at ESN in 08? With the Genesis midrange kick panels? I ****ing LOVED that car. I still think it was the best I ever heard. I did not get a chance to meet you Matt, regrettably. I got there late the last day. Winslow was busy finishing up judging. Fred and him were the only guys I knew well, and the only person who knew everyone else that was on another level. So I ended up bullshitting with Fred from Arc the rest of the show. Dammit. If you guys go next year I will try to be there. I am missing out on too much great work. I really want to hear them. lol.

Again, top notch work guys!!


----------



## tinctorus

bikinpunk said:


> where did the spare wind up?


There isn't a spare they should come with run flat's

But for some reason they still put a spare tire area I guess incase people want to buy an extra rim/tire then they have the storage


----------



## MaXaZoR

Is anyone else having problems seeing the pictures? All I see are X symbols

NM...I.E. just sucks. Awesome work!


----------



## kapone

tinctorus said:


> There isn't a spare they should come with run flat's
> 
> But for some reason they still put a spare tire area I guess incase people want to buy an extra rim/tire then they have the storage


Actually, I don't think the 535i came with runflats STOCK, hence the spare tire well. The M5s came with runflats stock, and there's no spare tire well, because of the dual exhaust. The exhaust sits where the spare tire well normally would be. The 535i does not have the dual exhaust.


----------



## audiguy

kapone said:


> Actually, I don't think the 535i came with runflats STOCK, hence the spare tire well. The M5s came with runflats stock, and there's no spare tire well, because of the dual exhaust. The exhaust sits where the spare tire well normally would be. The 535i does not have the dual exhaust.


A promise it comes with runflats.


----------



## audiguy

KAPendley said:


> Is this the same Randy that had the Audi at ESN in 08? With the Genesis midrange kick panels? I ****ing LOVED that car. I still think it was the best I ever heard. I did not get a chance to meet you Matt, regrettably. I got there late the last day. Winslow was busy finishing up judging. Fred and him were the only guys I knew well, and the only person who knew everyone else that was on another level. So I ended up bullshitting with Fred from Arc the rest of the show. Dammit. If you guys go next year I will try to be there. I am missing out on too much great work. I really want to hear them. lol.
> 
> Again, top notch work guys!!


Same Randy. Glad you liked the Audi.


----------



## kapone

audiguy said:


> A promise it comes with runflats.


Then you must have the "sport" package, which came with larger tires and runflats, but no dual exhaust, which is why the spare tire well is still there.  However, it's all a moot point.  It's a great car.


----------



## tinctorus

I still want want either way :laugh:
Any 5 series will do...

I'd even settle for an m5 or m6 :laugh:


----------



## Matt R

Randy really had to talk me into gettin rid of the spare. He got me when he told me some dont come with the spare and have runflats. I really cant stand the thought of making a car less useable. I did that when I was a teenager, its not good to have a cool car that you cant drive or trust.


----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R

This is the plug that used to be soldered to the board of the factory amp, all the factory amp needs now is power all speaker cables come from the spare tire well.


----------



## Matt R

This is probobly one of my favorite little circuits in the whole car. Mike made a remote turn on circuit that is trigered from the fiberoptic system.


----------



## smithee419

Love the attention to detail! Even the wiring was planned out throughly.


----------



## Matt R

The bottom of the tire well got pretty full. I welded ground studs to the floor to bolt the grounds to. The big distro block is power and the small one is to distribute the turn on.


----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R




----------



## Matt R




----------



## hancockd

Pretty sweet build!!


----------



## rcurley55

Matt R said:


>


first off, I love this build. It was my understanding that everything should be fused down stream of the relay or when you change wire size (such as stepping down the 12v+ to the amplifiers).

Am I doing things overkill or what?


----------



## Luke352

bikinpunk said:


> where did the spare wind up?


True SQ nuts always carry a can of Tyre Repair :: Repair & Maintenance :: Holts Auto .


----------



## Andy Jones

^^Not to speak for Matt, but my gut tells me his thining was the amps themselves have fuses in them. there is nothing between the distribution block and the amplifiers. A fuse would just be added resistance and overkill. If that wire was passing through metal or running 15 feet--maybe--but no need here. 

I don't know anyone that fuses each individual remote turn on wire (except Ben Vollomer).


----------



## Echo42987

Matt R said:


>


Are u using Deutsch terminals? Not that often I see them used for this kind of application.


----------



## methodsound

kapone said:


> Actually, I don't think the 535i came with runflats STOCK, hence the spare tire well. The M5s came with runflats stock, and there's no spare tire well, because of the dual exhaust. The exhaust sits where the spare tire well normally would be. The 535i does not have the dual exhaust.


The runflats are included as part of the "sport package" which is available on all the E60 models except the M5. Any E60 with the sport package also comes with a spare tire in the trunk.


----------



## Matt R

rcurley55 said:


> first off, I love this build. It was my understanding that everything should be fused down stream of the relay or when you change wire size (such as stepping down the 12v+ to the amplifiers).
> 
> Am I doing things overkill or what?


I wouldn't tell anyone not to fuse something if they wanted to fuse it. I only do what I think is nesissary though. The amps all have fuses built in that protect them individually. The Biggest concern when it comes to fusing a car is the fusing closest to a battery. You want it to protect the car in case theres an accident. After that is taken care of it's the individual components your protecting.

I've never heard of fusing wire because it changes size though.


----------



## Matt R

Sorry, I didn't see Andy already answered this ^^^ guess I should read before I start answering. I haven't shown the whole install yet either. There are fuses at the battery and the batcap and between the two.


----------



## Matt R

Echo42987 said:


> Are u using Deutsch terminals? Not that often I see them used for this kind of application.


I'm not sure if your refering to a brand name but these are Amphanol connectors (brand name). They are millitary spec. Definately not necissary for the application but really cool and a good connection too.


----------



## Matt R

So I have a bit of explaining to do cuz I am missing a few build pics of this cover. 

The BMW has some holes in the rear deck that allowed us to pull air from the cabin area and blow it into the tire well. Then the waterproof fans mounted outside move it out of there. To get the amount of air to move through the carpet I needed to make a big plenum. The aluminum plate was blocked up above the mesh and fiberglass was formed to the aluminum plate. This created a large cavity above the fans to draw air from. Then fiberglass and 2 part polyfoam was used to mold and shape around the fans. The wires were run inside the well cover. It is made of plastic that is formed like cardboard, kinda hollow in the middle.


----------



## Matt R

I welded a piece of heavy gauge sheetmetal to the battery strap with some spacers inbetween.


----------



## Hernan

Matt R said:


> I've never heard of fusing wire because it changes size though.


In fact is the rule. The fuse must protect the smaller wire in case of a short to ground. The amp fuses don't protect the smaller power cables.


----------



## tinctorus

Hernan said:


> In fact is the rule. The fuse must protect the smaller wire in case of a short to ground. The amp fuses don't protect the smaller power cables.


I agree,I have seen plenty of DIY guys that didnt fuse the remote wire and it melted one day when it got pinched on something


----------



## kizz

First of all, great build, just beautiful. I don't think I saw it anywhere but what speakers are going in the front?


----------



## 12v Electronics

Very nice work! 

Questions:

Waterproof fans? Are those also debris proof? I don't think they will work well under the car in Chicago weather. Also I hope you rustproofed the holes since you took those pics. I don't know what kind of corrosion issues you have in SC, but that would not do well in other parts of the country. 

I love your attention to detail on the wiring. I hope you made diagrams for them just in case there is a problem a year or so from now to make diagnosis easy.

Keep up the great work!


----------



## Matt R

Theres a large plastic cover that covers the whole underbelly of the car in this area. Undercoating was sprayed. I'm not by any means showing pics of every single step of the install, just the things I think are worthy of talking about. I think most people would really not like to see the 600+ pics of this install and I really dont have the time to do it either.


----------



## MarkZ

You only have to fuse the smaller wire if your original fuse didn't cover it.

For example, if your battery fuse is 50A and you drop down from 4 ga to 8 ga, you don't have to fuse the 8 ga wires individually because a short to ground of one of the little guys should pop the main fuse.

Basically, it's unnecessary unless you're going to like 16 ga, or something small like that.

Anyway, I like how things are coming along. The fan issue is intriguing...


----------



## KP

Andy Jones said:


> ^^Not to speak for Matt, but my gut tells me his thining was the amps themselves have fuses in them. there is nothing between the distribution block and the amplifiers. A fuse would just be added resistance and overkill. If that wire was passing through metal or running 15 feet--maybe--but no need here.
> 
> I don't know anyone that fuses each individual remote turn on wire (except Ben Vollomer).


Anyone using the PG DD10 or 5 has fused remote turn on's.


----------



## 12v Electronics

Matt R said:


> Theres a large plastic cover that covers the whole underbelly of the car in this area. Undercoating was sprayed. I'm not by any means showing pics of every single step of the install, just the things I think are worthy of talking about. I think most people would really not like to see the 600+ pics of this install and I really dont have the time to do it either.


I understand, and please believe me when I say I am not bashing this install in any way, but this pic is the reason for my post. I wouldn't believe a fan would last long under there even with a plastic shroud.










I work on many BMW's and know the car well. I just don't see why you would have gone outside the body for the fan's and connections like you did. 



MarkZ said:


> You only have to fuse the smaller wire if your original fuse didn't cover it.
> 
> For example, if your battery fuse is 50A and you drop down from 4 ga to 8 ga, you don't have to fuse the 8 ga wires individually because a short to ground of one of the little guys should pop the main fuse.
> 
> Basically, it's unnecessary unless you're going to like 16 ga, or something small like that.
> 
> Anyway, I like how things are coming along. The fan issue is intriguing...


Exactly. The main fuse is supposed to protect the wire and the amp's fuse is to protect the amp. 

I think that what he did will not be an issue and many installers (myself included) have downsized a wire a guage or two without fusing it seperately. This is pretty safe as even when a smaller gauge wire (within reason) reaches it's ignition point, it will draw far more current than the main fuse can handle which makes it pretty safe. The problem is when you go to smaller gauge wires like 16 awg as you said. Those will light up real quick with a 200 amp or so fuse and could cause a fire etc. 

I recently saw an 18 awg wire that was not fused seperately and shorted to ground. It was fused at the battery with a 250 amp fuse, but did enough damage to the wiring harness and amp rack carpet to remind me of the hazard. (p.s. I did not do it  )


----------



## d5sc

Randy,

Wow, AWESOME install! I remember you talking about your Audi awhile back at Marv's BBQ. 

However, I didn't think you would end up with a BMW of all things: Bring More Wallets, Bring More Wrenches; plus, you know the reputation that BMW drivers/owners have...

I imagine the systems sounds great with the modifications and Matt's tuning abilities. Have fun!

George


----------



## wdemetrius1

This is one of the best install I have ever seen. Simply phenomenal. Outstanding work!!!


----------



## HondAudio

Matt R said:


>


Ooh, orange positive wire  I'll be sleeving my positive in orange with red heatshrink.


----------



## Matt R

Thats not orange, its translucent red.


----------



## Matt R

This is why I would go outside the car with the fans and wiring. Theres no way to get the look and simplistic styling without doing that.


----------



## Andy Jones

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Anyone using the PG DD10 or 5 has fused remote turn on's.


yea I thought about that after I typed it, but didn't feel like correcting it. 

I mentioned Ben because he beats on it during his install speeches, and he stuck in my head.


----------



## audiguy

So this is the cool shot to me. After all that custom install work, this is what the trunk looks like on a daily basis. Can't even see the three fans above the amps.


----------



## mmiller

Mr Roberts, this is beautiful! and exactly how an install should look!

what is being used for front stage?? Scans?


----------



## Hernan

MarkZ said:


> You only have to fuse the smaller wire if your original fuse didn't cover it.
> 
> For example, if your battery fuse is 50A and you drop down from 4 ga to 8 ga, you don't have to fuse the 8 ga wires individually because a short to ground of one of the little guys should pop the main fuse.
> 
> Basically, it's unnecessary unless you're going to like 16 ga, or something small like that.
> 
> Anyway, I like how things are coming along. The fan issue is intriguing...


I don't see why not to fuse the remote.

This install use one big wire (and battery fuse) to power 5 amplifiers. This means a lot of conections and posible failure points... It is not bad but a fused distro block is safer. Safe is good. 

Awesome install!

I'm waiting for the front stage pics!


----------



## audiguy

Here is your pictures of the front stage. Of course it looks the same as a stock BMW as that was the plan.


----------



## keep_hope_alive

love the finished trunk. looks stock but is so far from it. 

as far as fusing, fusing should be sized for the wire. if you reduce wire size, fusing should provide over current protection... when the wiring is susceptible over current. 

in this case, i totally support Matt. the smaller wire is still protected from short circuit by the main battery fuse. the smaller wire is also protected from over current from the amp fuses. therefore, both criteria are met. 

same for motor protection in commercial applications. wire size can be smaller than the breaker feeder size IF there is overload protection at the load. this is very common since breakers are upsized for in-rush (or MOCP), and the wire is sized for FLA. 

outstanding work Matt. i love wiring pics and power distribution pics.


----------



## Arthurk

Now that is an awesome install!


----------



## Matt R

Thanks, guys. 

I don't know that Randy wants to disclose what the front stage consists of. I think the midbass drivers are ok to show.

There were several challenges to getting a better midbass driver in this cas factory location. This is where I really wanted to get the plasma cutter and welder involved. Randy found some of the old Illusion audio ND8's. I had to make them fit under the factory grill and they were larger than the factory sub. You can see in one pic where I drew the outline of the new woofer, then recessed the area around it. Then I had to fill the empty spaces where the flange of the speaker will sit. That was done with 3m's 4240. Now the speaker sits flush in the factory enclosure, this will let the factory grill to stay in place.


----------



## Matt R

Missed one, the baffle is ready to go here.


----------



## BigRed

I have the same car, and I was scratching my head as well with what to do when I pulled the seats and saw the enclosures  good call on the replacement


----------



## BigRed

I can see where you would want to break out that cutter Matt


----------



## Matt R

The speakers had big ol' binding posts that wouldn't fit so I did some standard speaker terminals on it.


----------



## Matt R

Yeah there was a pioneer sub that I wanted to try and we were very close to ordering them. These subs work very well as midbasses though.


----------



## 12v Electronics

BigRed said:


> I have the same car, and I was scratching my head as well with what to do when I pulled the seats and saw the enclosures  good call on the replacement


C'mon BigRed, you know what you want to put in there.  Just takes a little cutting which you are not unused to 

Matt, FYI- I recently put the Zapco ZSL-165 woofers in there and they performed very well. True they are only a 6.5, but worked well in the enclosure for midbass.


----------



## Matt R

We also had the Dyn 160 in there for a bit but the Illusion was a good bit better. I would have loved to get the 172 in there.


----------



## Matt R

That Dyn did go on to win another 2 seat world championship this year in an old Prelude


----------



## HondAudio

Matt R said:


> .photobucket.com/albums/hh203/mjmr1199/Randys%20BMW/DSC01633.jpg[/IMG]


I needed to use a relay in my old system for 2 amps and a crossover. The new system will be 3 amps but nothing else. Are modern head units able to push sufficient current on the turn-on lead for 3 amps, or am I going to need to use the relay again?


----------



## audiguy

Matt R said:


> We also had the Dyn 160 in there for a bit but the Illusion was a good bit better. I would have loved to get the 172 in there.


I don't know if the Illusions are sounding just perfect yet, but the thing that I really like about them is their ability to play really low. As I recall, I have them high passed at 40hz right now. No problems with upfront bass.


----------



## Matt R

HondAudio said:


> I needed to use a relay in my old system for 2 amps and a crossover. The new system will be 3 amps but nothing else. Are modern head units able to push sufficient current on the turn-on lead for 3 amps, or am I going to need to use the relay again?


The headunit should handle the load without problem


----------



## KAPendley

audiguy said:


> I don't know if the Illusions are sounding just perfect yet, but the thing that I really like about them is their ability to play really low. As I recall, I have them high passed at 40hz right now. No problems with upfront bass.


You had zero problems with upfront bass in the Audi as well. Man, you guys know how to bring excitement into car audio!! Love the work Matt!! I do NOT understand how some guys out there who claim to be "worldclass" installers, and dont have a clue, yet have all the credentials. Then someone like you comes along and DOMINATES with electrical interfaces hand built, and a COMPLETE understanding of how each individual component works and is supposed to come together!! EDIT: Joey and I were discussing this just the other day. It is a damn shame.

The Audi is STILL my point of reference of how a great sounding car should aspire to be. I cannot imagine how this one will thrill the ears of everyone who gets to listen!!


----------



## audiguy

KAPendley said:


> You had zero problems with upfront bass in the Audi as well. Man, you guys know how to bring excitement into car audio!! Love the work Matt!! I do NOT understand how some guys out there who claim to be "worldclass" installers, and dont have a clue, yet have all the credentials. Then someone like you comes along and DOMINATES with electrical interfaces hand built, and a COMPLETE understanding of how each individual component works and is supposed to come together!! EDIT: Joey and I were discussing this just the other day. It is a damn shame.
> 
> The Audi is STILL my point of reference of how a great sounding car should aspire to be. I cannot imagine how this one will thrill the ears of everyone who gets to listen!!


Yeah, the Audi is fun to demo. If all plans work out, the Audi will be back at ESN next year. And it will be better.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Very solid and clean install, loving it.

I've done a few BMW's, another driver to look for as a under seat mid-bass for these cars is the Hertz space 8; works very well. Not sure how it compares to the ND8 as I have not use it, but the Hertz space 8 works great. I would also look at the Critical Mass MB82 also, very similar design as the ND8.


----------



## audiguy

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> Very solid and clean install, loving it.
> 
> I've done a few BMW's, another driver to look for as a under seat mid-bass for these cars is the Hertz space 8; works very well. Not sure how it compares to the ND8 as I have not use it, but the Hertz space 8 works great. I would also look at the Critical Mass MB82 also, very similar design as the ND8.


I thought hard about that Space 8. As I recall, the fs was up there around 63. I could still try it some day. Glad to hear the feedback on the driver though.


----------



## Seth1784

Flat out amazing! Everything is very well thought out :bowdown:


----------



## Matt R

KAPendley said:


> You had zero problems with upfront bass in the Audi as well. Man, you guys know how to bring excitement into car audio!! Love the work Matt!! I do NOT understand how some guys out there who claim to be "worldclass" installers, and dont have a clue, yet have all the credentials. Then someone like you comes along and DOMINATES with electrical interfaces hand built, and a COMPLETE understanding of how each individual component works and is supposed to come together!! EDIT: Joey and I were discussing this just the other day. It is a damn shame.
> 
> The Audi is STILL my point of reference of how a great sounding car should aspire to be. I cannot imagine how this one will thrill the ears of everyone who gets to listen!!


Man, you alright. I appreciate the kind words, I'll buy you a beer when we meet!!! Actually Randy will have a cooler in the trunk!!


----------



## Matt R

Seth1784 said:


> Flat out amazing! Everything is very well thought out :bowdown:


Thanks, I appreciate it.


----------



## DAT

This install is incredible


----------



## sydmonster

How did I miss this????

Awesome install & indeed a great feat! After seeing Matt's truck I wondered what he'd been up to. Now I know...


----------



## Matt R

Thanks Syd, I was going to update my truck thread with some construction pics of the dash. Unfortunately most of the pics were lost in a lightening storm computer failure. I'm gonna try to recover some pics, we'll see. I did another car too, Kevin K's new build.


----------



## sydmonster

I'll be looking out for that then too!! 
Hope you have some luck recovering those pics, because selfish I wants to see .


----------



## audiguy

I wouldn't hold a lot of hope. I don't think Matt gets along all that well with the PC.


----------



## vwtoby

amazing attention to detail..in all aspects..

any links to the audi mentioned?


----------



## sydmonster

audiguy said:


> I wouldn't hold a lot of hope. I don't think Matt gets along all that well with the PC.


"the" pc... hmmm have to sort out this pc fella.


----------



## jorgegarcia

vwtoby said:


> any links to the audi mentioned?


Yes, links please.


----------



## Powers

Matt R said:


> I'm not sure if your refering to a brand name but these are Amphanol connectors (brand name). They are millitary spec. Definately not necissary for the application but really cool and a good connection too.


Any chance you know the model/model numbers? This opens up a new spectrum of my install. :surprised:


----------



## benny

Awesome install, but on Page 1 something was said about "driver's car". From what I can see, youre missing a pedal.


----------



## Matt R

Here are some 4 pin connectors in the same family

Digi-Key - 97-3106A-18-10P-ND (Manufacturer - 97-3106A-18-10P)
Digi-Key - 97-3102A-18-10P(946)-ND (Manufacturer - 97-3102A-18-10P(946))


----------



## Matt R

benny said:


> Awesome install, but on Page 1 something was said about "driver's car". From what I can see, youre missing a pedal.


Hahahahahah touche!!!!!!


----------



## audiguy

jorgegarcia said:


> Yes, links please.


There might be links to the Audi install in the near future. It is being sort of touched up right now.


----------



## AlpineAndy

Damn Randy! Very nice! Matts install skills are out of this world. I really wish I could have heard this car at finals.


----------



## 3.5max6spd

Very nice work! Wow, this install is sparking motivation to do something with my E60. Grats to Matt and audiguy on a nice project on a nice car.

I had not even got a chance to look through the the car for audio ideas, but this game me plenty of visuals.


----------



## yonigta

Hi Matt, from the Canary Islands I congratulate you, I love this installation simplicity, but very very complex at once, and read many things about you and the truth that in the car audio without you it would not be the same,

greetings and congratulations


----------



## Matt R

yonigta said:


> Hi Matt, from the Canary Islands I congratulate you, I love this installation simplicity, but very very complex at once, and read many things about you and the truth that in the car audio without you it would not be the same,
> 
> greetings and congratulations


Wow, thanks alot man. I appreciate the nice comments.


----------



## Schnitz

Beautiful! I love simple clean installs. You're electonics skills are amazing as well.


----------



## HondAudio

yonigta said:


> Hi Matt, from the Canary Islands I congratulate you, I love this installation simplicity, but very very complex at once, and read many things about you and the truth that in the car audio without you it would not be the same,
> 
> greetings and congratulations


That's what makes certain installs great. A lot of complicated work in the background, but a super-clean appearance.


----------



## wheelieking71

how did i miss this!? i freakin love the custom work not only on the install itself, but the modification of components! its just awsome. mucho kudos from me on this work. and the cajones to cut up not just one, but several C2Ks. love it. im pretty big on form follows function, and you nail it down.


----------



## Matt R

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I always try to make it look like the audio system belongs there.


----------



## GENEXXA

Nice install, but is it finished?

One thing that made me think. The 3 fans in the trunk, when it rains out side. How are you sure that no water/moisture can come near the amp's?


----------



## Matt R

There is an underbelly cover that protects the whole rear underside of the car. It's not air or water tight by any means but very good protection. The next line of protection is the waterproof fans that blow air outwards whenever the car is on. The car has been complete for over a year now and we haven't experienced any moisture in the trunk.


----------



## GENEXXA

Okey.
Thougt the fans blew air in the trunk. *slaps myself in the forhead*

Have you customized the interior? Or in other words, have you done more, then the last pictures?

_Sorry my bad english_


----------



## Matt R

Your english is real good. 

We have done a tweeter upgrade to the Scan illuminators. We haventput pics up of that yet. Randy really wanted to keep with the stock speaker locations so we didnt do much modifications other than the midbass enclosures so there wasn't much to show.


----------



## GENEXXA

Since he posted a "Before picture", I thougt it would be some customizin'.

But anyway, I love the outcome of the trunk. And the perfection of the custom work!


----------



## goodstuff

Matt R said:


> Your english is real good.
> 
> We have done a tweeter upgrade to the Scan illuminators. We haventput pics up of that yet. Randy really wanted to keep with the stock speaker locations so we didnt do much modifications other than the midbass enclosures so there wasn't much to show.


Which version of the illuminators? Very impressed with the hand made boards. Where did you even begin to learn how to build something like that, wow.


----------



## Matt R

We put the shallow 1" 3004 in the car. Those are great tweeters!!

My electronics mentor, Mike Granger, has tought me most of what I know about electronic circuitry. He started out as a tube repair guy in the late 60's early 70's. He's built studio equipment from scratch that were featured on albumbs by YES, Allen Parsons, and Ambrosia to name a few. The hand made circuitry is all designed and hand built by him. I do the wiring, packaging, implementation, and finishing work. 

He is really an electronics genius, the circit design is what really impresses me.


----------



## mmiller

Matt did you use the soft dome 3004's or the ring radiators?

Your work is an inspiration to all of us amateurs!


----------



## BassnTruck

Randy did you have a Fiero back in the 90s and early 2k?


----------



## Matt R

mmiller said:


> Matt did you use the soft dome 3004's or the ring radiators?
> 
> Your work is an inspiration to all of us amateurs!


We used the soft dome. Kevin K had the ring radiators, they are nice too.

Thanks!!


----------



## audiguy

BassnTruck said:


> Randy did you have a Fiero back in the 90s and early 2k?


No. In the 90's and early 2k I was driving an Audi A6 if I recall correctly.


----------



## ErinH

this install is unreal. great work. 

Randy, do you compete with this, too, or just the Audi?


----------



## pyropoptrt

Erin, to answer your question, Randy competed with his BMW at MECA Finals last year.


----------



## audiguy

Yeah, my plan was to go win modified street with the BMW at Meca finals this year. Unfortunately, there has been one schedule problem after another so I won't qualify. Either a show gets cancelled, or Nashville has the million year flood, or the freakin' Bimmer is in the shop for 6 weeks, or I get a bunch of new job responsibility and have to travel continuously for a couple of months. If it ain't one thing, its another...


----------



## usacimember

Awesome work man!


----------



## Inventor

Oh my..............I would like my e60 to be like this.


----------



## BigTDogg (MA)

The amount of work to keep the factory look, AND integrate into the factory MOST system is amazing. Some great electronics knowledge there, very impressive.


----------



## BigTDogg (MA)

Luke352 said:


> True SQ nuts always carry a can of Tyre Repair :: Repair & Maintenance :: Holts Auto .


Those products are definitely good in a pinch, but you still need to remove the tire ASAP to prevent damage to the wheel. Fix-a-flat and other temporary puncture repair products can damage TPMS systems as well.


----------



## Matt R

BigTDogg (MA) said:


> The amount of work to keep the factory look, AND integrate into the factory MOST system is amazing. Some great electronics knowledge there, very impressive.


Thanks man!!


----------



## quality_sound

Damn this is a good lookin install. Every time I see a BMW with a spare tire well it makes me sick. I have less than 2 inches in my "storage area" because of the dual mufflers.


----------



## bimmerman11

Sweetness! Great job.


----------



## optimaprime

ya its old but did it ever get finished?


----------



## Schramm

I just came across this installation. The factory "integration" and custom install is impressive; truly great fabrication skills evidenced. I have a few technical questions on the overall system.

1. I am most curious on how the vehicle was tuned with two DSP units involved. Any DSP unit will have some time delay in milliseconds required for processing. Did any problems result from the additional DSP further down the signal chain from the Harman/Becker DSP amp?

2. Given the higher amplification levels, were the OEM midrange drivers retained? 

3. Class A biasing draws significant current as noted. Were any changes required in the alternator to account for increased current draw from the system? Did you measure the increased load vs. OEM system. If so, what was the average and peak current draw at X level of dB (normal listening volume) with music?

4. What was the total weight added to the vehicle?

5. BMW trunks are typically well sealed from the interior cabin. Was anything required to allow the pressure wave from the subwoofer enter the cabin more easily?


----------



## Kevin K

Very nice work Matt.


----------



## Tnutt19

Nice to see this thread bumped back up, This build thread heavily inspired me for my build from the amp rack to the ideas for the sub and heck I even used illusion 8s under the seats allthough the new version.
I did cheat though and use a mObridge which was a night and day difference. I highly suggest to anyone that is thinking of adding a setup to a bmw.


----------



## Schramm

Well after reading the entire thread, I was disappointed that it died off without a conclusion on how the vehicle turned out as far as subjective listening impressions and if the vehicle owner felt the original goals from post #1 were met. Perhaps there is another thread. I am sure the system is much louder with the increased/higher quality amplification and larger subwoofer, but I can only imagine how difficult it was to improve on the BMW OEM tuning.


----------



## audiguy

Schramm said:


> I just came across this installation. The factory "integration" and custom install is impressive; truly great fabrication skills evidenced. I have a few technical questions on the overall system.
> 
> 1. I am most curious on how the vehicle was tuned with two DSP units involved. Any DSP unit will have some time delay in milliseconds required for processing. Did any problems result from the additional DSP further down the signal chain from the Harman/Becker DSP amp?
> 
> 2. Given the higher amplification levels, were the OEM midrange drivers retained?
> 
> 3. Class A biasing draws significant current as noted. Were any changes required in the alternator to account for increased current draw from the system? Did you measure the increased load vs. OEM system. If so, what was the average and peak current draw at X level of dB (normal listening volume) with music?
> 
> 4. What was the total weight added to the vehicle?
> 
> 5. BMW trunks are typically well sealed from the interior cabin. Was anything required to allow the pressure wave from the subwoofer enter the cabin more easily?


OK, I'll take a stab at these...

1. For the most part, no. The DSP6 can delay or EQ to compensate for what the factory processor is doing. Kinda like what a BitOne would do but manual. Only problem is the factory unit has a built in HP/LP crossover between the mids and the mid bass at 160hz that is weird to take out. Actually, that is the final problem that I need to correct with the system. Just been busy. There is a phase problem at 160hz that causes a suck out that I wasn't able to fix before Meca finals this year. Had to cost me 2 points. That said, I came in 4th out of 10 at world finals and a point or so from 2nd. That with about 2 hours of tuning this year. I just ran out of time.
2. I used Hybrid Audio Legatia 4's, but don't' tell anybody.
3. Class A could use up to 75 amps. No need for an alternator change. But don't think you are going to sit around parked with the engine off for more than 20 mins without a power supply hooked up. I would not recommend the casual listener use Class A. Only the most committed.
4. Sound deadening was used sparingly because of the car. No 6 layers of whatever on the floors. So maybe 20# of sound deadening, plus the weight of 5 amps, minus the weight of a spare. Probably 30#. I can't tell driving it.
5. No.

I listen to the car in stereo today. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have bought the stereo version, which just has stereo preamp outs from the HU. MUCH simpler.


----------



## audiguy

Schramm said:


> Well after reading the entire thread, I was disappointed that it died off without a conclusion on how the vehicle turned out as far as subjective listening impressions and if the vehicle owner felt the original goals from post #1 were met. Perhaps there is another thread. I am sure the system is much louder with the increased/higher quality amplification and larger subwoofer, but I can only imagine how difficult it was to improve on the BMW OEM tuning.


I never really got Logic 7 working right and the stereo sounds great, so I quit trying. Yeah it is loud, but would be louder if I fixed the 160hz phase problem mentioned in a nearby thread. It is totally stock looking, except that we later built tweeter pods for the scan tweets. The pods look stock unless you know what real stock looks like. The trunk looks like a trunk except for the sub. I'm happy with it, but as I mentioned elsewhere, if I did it again, I'd go stereo top to bottom.


----------



## Tnutt19

so have you thought about adding the mObridge, it was really cool what matt did with the logic 7 amplifier but the mObridge would solve your problems. IT really works well.
I had the same car, 2008 535i and now have an 08 550i and did the cic updgrade, I messed with balanced inputs from cic but ended up using the mObridge DA1 and wow it is awesome! I was skeptical that it would really work but it is flawless.
Definitely worth giving some thought into, and it will allow you to retain all volume controls via the stock HU.
Would you mind posting a picture of your tweeter pods?
Would love to see what you guys did with them, I put utopia be tweets in the stock pods and have thought about redoing.


----------



## Schramm

Thanks for the feedback and update. It is good to see you are still enjoying the system after all this time and that it met your goals. It is always good to see installations that improve sound quality while retaining the cars functionality and aesthetics, especially at this level.


----------



## audiguy

Tnutt19 said:


> so have you thought about adding the mObridge, it was really cool what matt did with the logic 7 amplifier but the mObridge would solve your problems. IT really works well.
> I had the same car, 2008 535i and now have an 08 550i and did the cic updgrade, I messed with balanced inputs from cic but ended up using the mObridge DA1 and wow it is awesome! I was skeptical that it would really work but it is flawless.
> Definitely worth giving some thought into, and it will allow you to retain all volume controls via the stock HU.
> Would you mind posting a picture of your tweeter pods?
> Would love to see what you guys did with them, I put utopia be tweets in the stock pods and have thought about redoing.


I don't have any pics on my computer. Maybe I'll take one tonight. That mObridge is just what I needed when we did this, but now I don't want to change, considering that I'm using the Zapco's with the balanced I/O. But thanks for the tip. Could come up in a future install.

To be clear, the line driver Matt built works great and provides a 10v input to the 
DSP6. Quiet as heck and I can use all the stock controls.


----------



## Tnutt19

But with the mObridge you could feed full range toslink into the dsp6, you may even be able to use a toslink splitter and feed one into the dc ref amp too. (not sure how you have that connected)
I understand not wanting to change it up but it certainly would solve your problems.
Ill look forward to seeing pictures when you post them of the tweeters.


----------



## dgage

audiguy said:


> I never really got Logic 7 working right and the stereo sounds great, so I quit trying. Yeah it is loud, but would be louder if I fixed the 160hz phase problem mentioned in a nearby thread. It is totally stock looking, except that we later built tweeter pods for the scan tweets. The pods look stock unless you know what real stock looks like. The trunk looks like a trunk except for the sub. I'm happy with it, but as I mentioned elsewhere, if I did it again, I'd go stereo top to bottom.


Can you share a picture of the tweeter pods that almost look stock? Awesome install.


----------



## quickaudi07

Bad ass install, cant wait for the rest of the pics, !!!


----------



## REGULARCAB

Bumping this because there is a lot of win all over this build!!


----------



## optimaprime

Ya one of my favorite builds right here.


----------



## SHAGGS

Matt R said:


>


Anyone got a link for these plugs? 
Any loss problems over the connection points?


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


> Bumping this because there is a lot of win all over this build!!


If you had come to Finals, you could have met Matt. lol
Next year, I'm planning better, and making sure I know where other people are staying before I choose a hotel 15 miles away. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> If you had come to Finals, you could have met Matt. lol
> Next year, I'm planning better, and making sure I know where other people are staying before I choose a hotel 15 miles away. lol
> 
> Jay


Maybe next year Ill strap my daughter in the back seat and she and I will go on a road trip...


----------



## justin30513

Hard to believe that no one's commented on this post it almost 5 years!
I go back to this about every two months when I am looking at my notes for my build. 
Hoping that might see this, I meant to get his attention at finals but he was busy judging.
Did any problems ever develop from using these connectors to use as quick release quick connects for your signal and speaker wires?
I'm wanting to do multiple different amp racks (with different amplifiers that I collect) and I'm trying to find the fastest easiest way to remove them and replace them while keeping the signal intact.
Matt R.....thank you in advance and it's such a wonderful educational build I definitely appreciate the effort and time!


----------



## justin30513

Anyone out there???


----------

