# full range driver reccomendations for ht line array



## savagebee (Sep 12, 2006)

Im getting my self into ht, and I want to start with a basic 2.1 system, using line arrays...

so.. suggest away.. they need to be inexpensive, maybe 100-200 for the sets...

also, I may do voight pipes, but im not too sure its what Im wanting here...

the line arrays will be matched with a dual 18"/1300 wrms ported cabinet Im planning on right now... just waiting for an excuse to rip them out of my car and put them in the house...

Ill only have about 50 wrms per side as of now, but that will be upgraded @ a later point, so.. please.. suggest away!


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

lol, i talked to PE tech support yesterday for about an hour on this very thing.

for a medium livingroom (10-15 feet from the speakers), the line needs to be at least 2 feet long, with 8 drivers and 4 tweets on each side. also, he said don't get any higher than a 3" or 3.5" driver or you'll have lobing issues with 4kHz.

The dayton 3/4" rear mount tweeter is what I was looking at, and he said it'd be great. On the mids, find something that can cross with the bottom end of that driver without a problem. You're going to be buying 16 mids, so if they're 10 bucks each, that's $160. The PE guy recommended a 3" TB driver, but it was about $19. They have some closeout no name drivers that are ugly, but are cheap. However, you're going to be pushing it on frequency response. The challenge with a driver that small is to get one that'll play low enough to have a sub pick up on. I wonder if you can't just use a 4" and then gap the crossover to dodge the lobing.

Or get a pair of Vifa Trinity6 speakers and be done with it!


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## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

"Basic 2.1" and "line array", eh? 

The best cheap full range drivers (in my opinion) are the Aura NS3's and the Hi Vi B3S's.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Punk0Rama said:


> "Basic 2.1" and "line array", eh?
> 
> The best cheap full range drivers (in my opinion) are the Aura NS3's and the Hi Vi B3S's.


Yuck. Of course that is my opinion. Both of those drivers are widebanders and not really fullrange drivers IMO. I hated the highs from both those drivers, very un-natural, I think they are best used with a tweeter.

I prefer some of the tang band solutions either the W3-871 or the W3-1364.

If your budget was a little higher, the Vifa TG9 I think would sound even better in an array without a tweeter.

PE had a buyout of a driver similar to the NS3 at half the price if that floats your boat. Specs were slightly different though.


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## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

durwood said:


> Yuck. Of course that is my opinion. Both of those drivers are widebanders and not really fullrange drivers IMO. I hated the highs from both those drivers, very un-natural, I think they are best used with a tweeter.
> 
> I prefer some of the tang band solutions either the W3-871 or the W3-1364.
> 
> ...


The top end on any of these drivers is usually quite poor. The NS3 and B3S were only recommended because they are so dirt cheap. 

The Vifa TG9 is a good option, but also a little poor on the top end with what I would consider distortion limited output below 400-500 Hz...not a big deal, though, if your subs can play up that high.

I found the W3-1364 a bit disappointing...nothing particularly special about it and the same ragged top end as the Hi Vi B3S but at a higher price. If I were going with a TB driver, I might consider the W4-1337...using a notch filter up top (break-up from metal cone) can make it go full range without too much trouble. A little bit more pricey, though.

In the end, there are actually very few *really* good full range drivers and they are almost all out of the budget here.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Punk0Rama said:


> The top end on any of these drivers is usually quite poor. The NS3 and B3S were only recommended because they are so dirt cheap.
> 
> In the end, there are actually very few *really* good full range drivers and they are almost all out of the budget here.


ah so true.


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

well if you want to try it on the cheap, then look at those MK 3" drivers. You will most likely need to EQ the system, but for trying out an array usen a singal drivers line just might be the ticket.

http://www.apexjr.com/speakerstuff.html


If you could figure out how to mount that Vifa 4" 2 way, and didn't mind the fact there will be some combing effect, you can get them by the case.....



and again, on the cheap use the Cerwin-Vega 6" 16 ohm and Sonance Tweeter. get better low end and cleaner hi end, still going to comb but it will perform better.


And for the rest of you number crunchers, my array`s have the tweeters at 4 inch c-t-c. To tell the truth at the listening position that all encompassing comb filter effect isn't that noticeable.


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

using the w4-1337's, that's $800 for a 2 channel line array! 

I think a cheaper mid/tweeter line array would be much more cost effective.

what about the TB W3-879SC with the dayton 3/4" tweet?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-810

You'd be under $300 for the drivers, then would just need two passive xovers.


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

durwood said:


> Yuck. Of course that is my opinion. Both of those drivers are widebanders and not really fullrange drivers IMO. I hated the highs from both those drivers, very un-natural, I think they are best used with a tweeter.
> 
> I prefer some of the tang band solutions either the W3-871 or the W3-1364.
> 
> ...


x2. I favor the TG9 over the Aura, HiVi, and TB


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

durwood said:


> Yuck. Of course that is my opinion. Both of those drivers are widebanders and not really fullrange drivers IMO. I hated the highs from both those drivers, very un-natural, I think they are best used with a tweeter.
> 
> I prefer some of the tang band solutions either the W3-871 or the W3-1364.
> 
> ...


x2. I favor the TG9 over the Aura, HiVi, and TB

I suggest you 1st make a small fullrange loudspeaker if you are just starting to get into home audio.


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## Bob Blickle (Oct 27, 2007)

durwood said:


> Yuck. Of course that is my opinion. Both of those drivers are widebanders and not really fullrange drivers IMO. I hated the highs from both those drivers, very un-natural, I think they are best used with a tweeter.


Yes, but that problem is easily remedied with one good Tweeter centered in the array or a line of tiny ones adjacent. 

I would be more worried about several other things on the B3s/n:

250 Hz realistic bottom end and the sound your Sub is going to make up that high.

Brutally low sensitivity (80db!)

I love them but having thought about it, I would not consider them for a LA.

If you want an inexpensive Line array that is already engineered and is supposed to work fairly well check out the ART Array over at Audio Round Table dot Com. It was a combined effort of several guys on that forum for the exact purpose you described.

If you want to homebrew a design, IMO you should look at a bigger Mid that actually can reach your Sub.

I am currently homebrewing a very economical 7' 12 mid LA myself but don't have any documentation to share at the moment. Mine is all active with DCX-2496 so probably not in your current plans anyway.

bb


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## Bob Blickle (Oct 27, 2007)

*Re: Pick Two*



savagebee said:


> Im getting my self into ht, and I want to start with a basic 2.1 system, using line arrays...
> 
> so.. suggest away.. they need to be inexpensive, maybe 100-200 for the sets...
> 
> ...


Pick any two:
Inexpensive, Good, Full Range

bb


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## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Pick Two*



Bob Blickle said:


> Pick any two:
> Inexpensive, Good, Full Range
> 
> bb


Hmmm, well put. The "Hoffman's Iron Law" of full range speaker quality.


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## savagebee (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: Pick Two*



Bob Blickle said:


> Pick any two:
> Inexpensive, Good, Full Range
> 
> bb


hah
thanks for that
I kind of assumed thats what I was going to run into here

Thank you for all the suggestions and reading suggestions everyone
keep em coming
even though this will be far from an audiophile system, Im almost just wanting to do this so I can have something to do..
so I genuinely appreciate all thoughts and criticisms..
Ill start doing some more research, and return if I have any other questions

thanks again
Brent


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

*Re: Pick Two*



Bob Blickle said:


> Pick any two:
> Inexpensive, Good, Full Range
> 
> bb


TG9


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8267


Look at this jewel, but your going to need a sub to get up to 150hz and sound good.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Diru said:


> http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8267
> 
> 
> Look at this jewel, but your going to need a sub to get up to 150hz and sound good.


Or what about this contender? Looks like it's best used at 30deg off axis. We will ahve to wait though. I think thye said it won't be released until the beginning of next year.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24763&highlight=peerless


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

Diru said:


> http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8267
> 
> 
> Look at this jewel, but your going to need a sub to get up to 150hz and sound good.





durwood said:


> Or what about this contender? Looks like it's best used at 30deg off axis. We will ahve to wait though. I think thye said it won't be released until the beginning of next year.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24763&highlight=peerless



With the 3'er you will get a lower f3, but you also start comb filtering at a lower frequency.

This was about doing it on the cheap, how much for the 3"er?

Not sure if I like that peak at 10khz, seems to be a bit more wild up there over the 2"er. I'm sure you could work it out in the xover thou.

Is something to look at yeppers..


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Reviewed the 3" now. It's in the suitable section.


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## iyamwutiam (Nov 20, 2006)

EJ Jordan-especially for an array
I think the new one is the HD6- one I heard was the JX-53- best midrange I have heard yet and that includes the rainbows- although the rainbows are VERY close and definitely excel toward the lower end.


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

Rbsarve said:


> Reviewed the 3" now. It's in the suitable section.


seen the reveiw, nice detail.

sense you played with the 3"ers, whats the chances you getting a set of 2"ers.

Something also to think about, with the confirmed 10khz nasty, one could expect the comb effect to tame that down on its own merits from the C-T-C starting under the 10k peak.

Useing a array box volume way larger then needed by this 3" driver will make it think it is in IB. hell you need a footprint to stand it up right.


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Well I can get the 2" but I doubt I have the time to test it in a resonable time.


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

Rbsarve said:


> Well I can get the 2" but I doubt I have the time to test it in a resonable time.


I'm not in any rush, anyone else?


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

mcintosh used the whispers... http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/...Loudspeaker+Systems&prodid=1114&product=XRT2K


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

kappa546 said:


> mcintosh used the whispers... http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/...Loudspeaker+Systems&prodid=1114&product=XRT2K



And where does it say that?


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

rarely does one company acknowledge another company providing the drivers for their loudspeakers... those are whispers.


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

The tweeters also look suspiciously like the Aurasound NT1-204-8D. Though I don't understand how the frequency response for the loudspeaker can reach 45K Hz with the C-T-C spacing being so large.


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