# 1999 Subaru Forester build



## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

The goals of this build are pretty simple: SQ, uncomplicated installation and spending money smartly. As you’ll see, I’ve dug deep into my old school stash, as well as made some nice updated buys, where needed. 
Instead of trying to explain the current plan, here’s my diagram:


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## Miniboom (Jul 15, 2010)

I don't know if you've tried the MRP-F200 yet, but I've owned one, and it's not very powerful. At all... I'd bridge it for midbass usage (720PRS's), and use the PPI with passive crossovers for the L3's/Infinity's.

And save the center speaker stuff for later...


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

kenikh said:


> The goals of this build are pretty *simple*


Center channel =/= simple.

Good luck :thumbsup:


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

If that's simple, then my build is downright elementary. 

Nice to see another Subi owner here!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

The MRP-F200 did solid duty with my old Alpine DDDrives, the surviving woofer of which will occupy the center channel. I will admit that a little more horsepower would be desirable, but with my listening levels, I am confident the MRP will hang. I will agree with you using the PPI for the high/mid combo, though. Revised diagram below...

For the center then...options:


MS-8 power (18Wx1 - I am out of free channels, so can't run 18Wx2 active to components w/o additional active x-over)
A/D/S PQ8 (22x4, but two channels are fried, not bridgable either)
Pioneer GMH-22 (Shockingly clean 100Wx1 bridged @ 4 ohms)
Pioneer GM-x262 (shown - 100Wx1 bridged at 4 ohms...very similar to above)
Admittedly, I really don't want "random amp sprawl" and am already running short on space.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Cross-posting an interesting setup by the site mod. Similar to my setup, but the routing is pretty different. I like the flexibility you get through the gains by using this configuration...



thehatedguy said:


> I am running 3 way fronts, a 3 way center, coax rears, and a sub off of my MS-8.
> 
> The tweeters and midranges have a passive between them on all of the channels.
> 
> ...


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## Miniboom (Jul 15, 2010)

Having three 4-channel amps and using only 3 channels on each don't make any sense to me...

If I needed eight channels and had twelve, I'd bridge the two weakest amps down to two channels.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

So much for simple...well at least to most. I was having trouble reconciling the time adjustments from the MS-8 with tweets and mids in different locations when being run passive, soooo...I have started building dash top speaker pods. Pics below.

*Pic 1* is the tape setup. If you do this, OVER cover, not under cover the dash. Lacquer thinner, acetone will get it up, but an ounce of prevention is better than trying untested solvents on your dash.

*Pic 2* is the goods

*Pic 3* are the nice little strips of chopper glass I like to use for the nooks and crannies

*Pic 4* is the layup. BTW, using a sharpie to tace trimlines is a nice trick, because the marking will bleed back into the resin, saving guesswork later.

*Pic 5* is the cured rough form, with the little plastic half ball I will use to mount the Legatia L3s. Got this tip elsewhere on the forum for easy mounting and combating standing waves. BRILLIANT.

I will guess there may be some forum rules about pissing and moaning about not being able to show inline pics until you hit 50 posts, but not being able to annotate these pics really blows. If it was $20 to "upgrade" like most forums, I'd do it, but...oh well, off of my soap box.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Another quick update. 

I finally got tired of thinking about how I was going to fit three different amps cleanly w/ an MS-8 in my car without craploads of fabrication. I had a chance to pick up an old school a/d/s PH15 50x6 amp in great shape, which solves issues of space as well as getting the entire front stage on the same amp. Homogeneity is _good_.

New diagram is below.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

The driver side dash pod keeps coming along. 

As you will see below after trimming, I way over built the fiberglass, but it is by design. You want to have enough material to work, so as the design evolves, you have enough "canvas" to work with. Adding material later is much harder than trimming away the extra.

Picture 1 - I've taped the sphere in place at the prescribed angle and then stake it in palce with high viscosity cyanoacrylate (super glue)
Picture 2 - I've refined my trim lines in preparation for some Dremel goodness
Pictures 3 - Post Dremel


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Picture 4 - More post-Dremel
Pictures 5, 6 & 7 - Taping in the rough form in prep for the bondo/resin slurry

Once I pour in the slurry, I'll build and shape the pods to seamlessly transition back into the corner of the dash like a mini B&W Nautilus.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm following this because of the cool dash corner pods!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Friday progress...hot glued the pod to a board using odds and ends as leveling stakes. You get it done anyway you can, if not pretty.

I mxed the bondo/resin slurry by eye to the right, pourable consistency in disposable tupperware, using an auto paint bamboo stir stick to get everything uniform. It gets smooth really quickly.

I always use the resin hardener in these slurries. MEKP, being liquid, is way easier to mix in than BOP paste. I mix (by eye) the recommended specs on the resin can, then add a little extra squirt for good luck. I started doing this in college and it has never let me down.  

Here's the pod after the pour:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

In the meantime, another little piece kicks off - the tweeter pods. These will be stacked vertically, inline with the midrange pods.

I marked the high water mark for the tweeter, then offset for the mounting plate, using an exacto blade to mark it. Nice thing about acrylic being transparent!

I then tacked the smaller sphere to the board with hot glue and leveled it. Once leveled, I used a good bit of the left over slurry to fill the sphere to the mark. This will be a nice, solid, high mass pod for sure!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

And here we are, time to wait for things to set. 

The last wrinkle? A pregnant wife means no bondo fumes in the house, so with temps around 45 degrees, I get to keep the parts warm enough to set by idling my car in the driveway with the heat on full blast! :laugh:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Some out of the box thinking.....alright


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## Fight (Feb 17, 2011)

pregnant wife....I feel 4 U


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

A little bit of shaping, a little bit of test fitting...primer for contour and flaw filling will come next.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

One thing I didn't consider, because I was unaware...I need to vent these. Looks like I will need to drill a line. Admittedly, the sphere acts as a back wave disperser, so it may be partially moot, but will do it anyway.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

OK, that's solved. 

The hole you see in the pics was drilled at the correct angle to meet with the sail panel where it transitions into the dash. As a result, the enclosure will now vent into the nice, wide open cavity behind the dash. 

Now that we're IB, I will probably take it one step further and blend the angles of the opening inside the enclosure centered on the driver's magnet. OCD? Yeah. Oh well...


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Whew, 15 more posts and I can start using IMG tags instead of forum image uploads!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Blending done. This is going to work out really nicely...IB for optimal sound _and_ a place to run the wires.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

A quick hit of primer reveals all...well almost. If these were going to get a paint job, I'd be putting down some guide coat, but sinc these will either get vinyl overlaid or matte paint (undecided), perfection isn't needed.

With the prototype driver's side pod almost done, the passenger side should go much more quickly.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

And jus in case things aren't confusing enough, I've been thinking about what the system would look like if I ditched rear fill and went fully active of the front stage (minus the center). Then again, an active crossover on each channel of the Sedona would equal a fully active system. Decisions, decisions...


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## Fight (Feb 17, 2011)

Nice Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

Looking good. We're both in the middle of our installs. Looks like we are both making good progress. Can't wait to see it when it is done.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Yep! Going to test fit the MS-8 and amps today under the seats. Really don't feel like going down the slippery slope of fabricating amp racks. Last time I did that, it was 1991 and I built a hybrid sub enclosure and amp rack, loaded with 3/4" plexiglass, mirrors and other bling trickery. The dash pods are really as far as I want to go on fabrication.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Did a little test fitting of the sub amp and MS-8 today. I held out some hope that I'd be able to get everything under the front seats, but it wasn't to be. So the MS-8 will go under the passenger seat, the PH15 under the driver's seat and the Infinity in the back near the subs. I was very pleased to be able to actually get the sub amp fitted quite easily. A blade and a MAP gas torch make easy work of styrene foam.

Pic 1 - As the factory made it
Pic 2 - Cut away and melted to fit
Pic 3 - Amp in place...like a glove and with room to breathe
Pic 4 - Out of sight, out of mind
Pic 5 - The MS-8


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

That's not all - a little bit of fitting of the driver's side pod got done, too. The pics below will give a better sense of scale and fit, as well as showing the location of the IB vent and whwere it goes into the open area behind the sail.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

The a/d/s PH15 arrived today, so I test fit it on the passenger side. This sucker is tall, but will fit under the stock Forester seats, which have taller seat frames than the Impreza it is based on.

This in mind, I've decided that I will place the PH15 in this spot and put the MS-8 under the driver's side. Since I may upgrade the driver's seat to an STI bucket, which will olwer the seat, better to not play Russian amplfifier cleanance roullette.  As I am 6' 2", lowering the seat would be nice, too.

Photo below.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I HATE SOLDERING!!! Making the cable for the PH15 SUCKS!!!!!


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

I feel for you. Is the cable really small?


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## Fight (Feb 17, 2011)

Chayse said:


> I feel for you. Is the cable really small?


That's what she said.

Hope my sense of humor doesn't offend anyone. I'm just kidding.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

LOL...story of my life!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

No progress this weekend, but the best news is that I traded my PRS tweeter to a buddy for this ADS tweeter. DAMN is it clean...and the magnet is 2.5" in diameter!

In place of working shots, here's the epitome of "old school goodness". 
Enjoy.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

A little bit of progress. I decided to fit the Alpine amp in a similar manner to the Infinity, albeit in a much more challenging space. The compartment on the passenger side is quite tiny so required getting pretty creative cutting the foam.

TIP - if you didn't catch it before, the ultimate way to form styrene foam is with a MAP gas torch and a set of quality metal mud knives of multiple widths. Heat it up and melt your way to glory.

The end results turned out well, but the space required that I remove enough material that its a little flimsy. That will be quikly solved once I go back and add a little bit of fiberglass reinforcement. The results of my labor:

Rough Fit:

























Yes, that is a little corrosion on the bottom of the amp - the old RX-7 had a leak but luckily the amp is 100% good to go.

Here it is, fully trimmed and fitted:

















Not too bad and I get to keep my full size spare!


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

Looks pretty good under there. Not too worried about heat I suppose?

I miss the under floor storage my old Subies had. My first three Subie wagons had the spare mounted up front right on top of the engine, and there was a nice big covered storage area in the back. It just flipped up front the back of the hatch toward the front. Ahh, to have that space now.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

If heat ever becomes an issue, there's LOTS of room to add a relay and fan. The MRP runs so cool, though, I am not terribly worried.


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

Lookin good....giving me some ideas for my Outback. Not sure If I could squeeze my amp into the cargo area without losing access to my spare though.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

tibug said:


> Lookin good....giving me some ideas for my Outback. Not sure If I could squeeze my amp into the cargo area without losing access to my spare though.


I'll let you know - my brother's OBS is next after this one and considering how I am burning thourgh equipment, he's going to get one balls out system for free.

The feature creep bug hit again today. One day after trading my PRS tweets for the ADS tweet, I decided I just wasn't happy with the sound of the Alpine midrange. Getting that large driver into the dash was going to be a challenge anyway, so I bit the bullet and bought an L3SE for the center channel. 

Gonna run it full range and tweeterless. Boo yah...


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

To continue off of the above developments, some detail.

I am going down the taboo route and will run speakers outside of the MS-8. This will be for the rear fill speakers (oooh, controversy! ), running off of the head unit's delay, using 2 channels of the MRP-F200. These will be attenuated and bandpassed.

The L3SE center will run off of one channel on the MRP, but I will leave one channel unused in case I change my mind and want to add a tweeter later. The center channel _will_ receive its signal from the MS-8.

Anyhow, here's the revised diagram:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Mocking up the under seat amp rack, I'll use grommets for routing the wiring underneath the shelf. It is made of masonite and will be reinforced by one layer of fiberglass weave for light weight and strength.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

FINALLY! I have a full set of OEM cables for my amp:










The AC201 has a female end - the AC203 acts as the male to male bridge between the RCA cluster and the amp.


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## Topdown (Aug 12, 2009)

looking good!


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Impressive custom install work for sure. I pity you on the day you change cars and have to take all of that out.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Chaos said:


> Impressive custom install work for sure. I pity you on the day you change cars and have to take all of that out.


Lots of consideration has been given to this contingency. This install has actually been designed to be easily and cheaply returned to stock. The rear hatch components where the amps are mounted can be had at a junk yard cheaply, so yank the storage bin with the amp in situ, drop in the new one and done. 

The amp racks go under the seats and will be quick release, as well. Even though the racks will be nicely provisioned, there's no reason the can't be held in place by industrail velcro.  Last, the dash top speaker pods will be integrated into the sail panels, which snap out and are also cheaply available at the junk yard. 

All in all, an hour visit to the yard to get $100 in parts and I can remove everything of value from the car and have it back to stock in an hour or two, if I leave the wiring in place.

And considering I just bought my wife a brand spanking new, fully loaded 2011 Audi, I don't think I will be able to afford to replace the Subaru any time soon!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I finished drilling the grommet holes this AM before work. The next step will be to lay a fiberglass sheet over the top of the masonite. 

From there, I will be able to drill the cured fiberglass, centered on the existing holes to the diameter of the grommet recess, which will allow them to seat properly. 

Here it is mocked up with a little wire:


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

Looks good and gives me an idea.
Thanks!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

An off topic ramble, but I was messing with a colleagues touch screen laptop today with Windows 7 media center. The touch controls with that UI is a MEAN solution for a car PC front end! I wandered over to mp3car.com to check out what it would take and the SQ possibilities are astounding. Using an outboard audiophile DAC between the PC and MS-8 aux input would open up terabytes of storage for thousands of CDs in the jukebox in native WAV and DVD audio format. A follow up project perhaps?


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

kenikh said:


> An off topic ramble, but I was messing with a colleagues touch screen laptop today with Windows 7 media center. The touch controls with that UI is a MEAN solution for a car PC front end! I wandered over to mp3car.com to check out what it would take and the SQ possibilities are astounding. Using an outboard audiophile DAC between the PC and MS-8 aux input would open up terabytes of storage for thousands of CDs in the jukebox in native WAV and DVD audio format. A follow up project perhaps?


You're crazy! Do it.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Spoken like you've known me for years! LOL!!!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Beveled the holes w/ sandpaper, cut the glass weave, mixed the resin, painted the board with it (disposable brushes), laid down the glass, smoothed it with another brush and here we are!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Center channel in da house:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Looks like I am going to be facing an extended standstill on this project due to work related travel. Anything that gets done will ahve to be in scarce moments in the next two weeks. Bummer - I was really hoping to have this done sooner. Story of my life! 

So if there are no updates for an extended period, don't worry, they'll be back when I am back. The good news is that I'll be in places where Subaru JDM parts grow on trees!


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

kenikh said:


> Looks like I am going to be facing an extended standstill on this project due to work related travel. Anything that gets done will ahve to be in scarce moments in the next two weeks. Bummer - I was really hoping to have this done sooner. Story of my life!
> 
> So if there are no updates for an extended period, don't worry, they'll be back when I am back. The good news is that I'll be in places where Subaru JDM parts grow on trees!


Aww too bad. I heard JDM parts are all over the place in Japan. Not sure why, but it's like they make them there or something! :shrug:

This is gonna be one hot sounding subi!


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

kenikh said:


> I finished drilling the grommet holes this AM before work. The next step will be to lay a fiberglass sheet over the top of the masonite.
> 
> From there, I will be able to drill the cured fiberglass, centered on the existing holes to the diameter of the grommet recess, which will allow them to seat properly.
> 
> Here it is mocked up with a little wire:


Are these just plain rubber grommets?


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Chayse said:


> Are these just plain rubber grommets?


Yep. Home Depot has a few, but the really custom ones can be had here:

Rubber Grommets for Protecting Cables from Sharp Edges


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Trip to asia, half cancelled, so more time at home to tweak around. Say a prayer for the folks in Japan.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

So far so good man..!! I love the OS A/D/S...!!

I'm wantin a Fozzy... 

I noticed on the amp rack, it might be a little late now, but the wires that pass through the grommets, if you use snap grommets, you can get them SUPER close to one another (audi symbol esq. OOOO)

3/16" I.D. X 3/8" O.D. SNAP GROMMET - 100PK - eBay (item 230596151876 end time Mar-18-11 20:24:47 PDT)

Just a thought, it helps get the wires lined up real nice.. details are key...


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Nice tip on the grommets. Not done yet, so can give them a shot. 

Yes, Fozzys are great. I have tried to replace it and just can't do it.  So now I get to trick this one out.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm driving my mom's old Fozzy around right now,it's fun, with my RS in the garage..


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Mine will be more fun once my 22B rep motor is done. . Check out the build thread over on NASIOC in the built motor forum...


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

I wound up buying some of those plastic grommets in different sizes from Mouser. They came in the other day. I should be able to get them installed this week and get everything wired up. BTW I have that exact Monster Cable battery terminal from my Integra Type R from 2001. When it was stolen, they left me the terminal and amp wiring. Yay!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...why go without a tweeter in the center channel when you can score a set of matching ribbon tweeters to round out your existing set?


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Gratuitous side by sides of two types of Emit-N tweeters - quite a few differences actually:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

With time coming in minutes versus hours, I continue to work on the mundane task of running power. Surprisingly satisfying to know that I can now get the full draw of a 4 gauge power line into the cabin! Here's the goods:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Finally back on the ground after my long business trip/vacation stint. I have started working on the car again and have made a few minor layout changes, after having a lot of time to think about the install. More to come in pictures soon.

The biggest change is in regard to the dash pods - I have decided to go back to a more stealth approach and will place the 3" HA L3 mids into the doors behind the stock tweeter covers. They are actually good size to allow the sound to pass through, as the aperture size allows the entire driver cone to be exposed. With some minor modding to increase their transparency, they should to very nicely.

With some cutting and reshaping of the door metal, the L3s fit, _barely_. I have already cut the holes and clearanced the sheet metal by reshaping with a body hammer - the door panerls still need some final plastic massage, but am pleased that going full stealth is back in the mix. I don't think the SQ will take too much of a hit, either. I am hanging a bit of hope on the MS-8 being able to pick up the imaging slack, but am confident that the results will be excellent.

More good news - after opening up the top dash pod, I have a lot more room than I thought for placing the center channel. This will be the lynch pin for bringing up the image, especially with the lower, wider placement of the mids. I'll still mount the tweets high in the sail panels, which will also help. Regarding tweeter mounting, I will flush mount them, then paint the grills to match the color of the sail panel plastic. With some intense attention to detail, it will look flawless.

Stay tuned.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I lied. Well, not really - I sold myself some fool's gold. While it was close, I couldn't make the mids fit high in the doors, so we're back to the dash pods. Not a big deal really, as they really are nice. 

Spent yesterday afternoon adding a mounting plate to the driver's side pod and running wires to the driver's side door. 

For the speaker mounting faces, ghetto worked fine. I'd have preferred machinist like precision, but without a drill press, I just used a hand drill and 3" and 4" hole saws to make the plates. The "foot vise" held the MDF in place on floor of the garage, starting with the 4" hole saw to get the pilot hole going, switched to the 3" to cut the small hole out, then back to the 4" to finish the job.



























I then hand massaged the plate with a Dremel and sanding wheel and tacked the plate in place with some thick super glue. Once set, it was bondo time. I blended the ring into the body using a rasp and then sandpaper, ensuring that the integrity of the sphere's geometry was visually perfect. Again, turned out nice:


























I've seen some folks have luck with running speaker wire through the OEM channel, but F--- Me, I can't imagine how! Instead, I took the advice of someone from subaruforester.org and pulled the body gaskets out, punctured them with a tiny hole and pulled the wire through, outside and parallel of the OEM channel. The hole is small enough that it provides a water tight compression fit. 

A little attention to detail paid dividends: I used shrink tubing to get the speaker wires to blend in with the black OEM channel, then used black zip ties to bind them together. Looks very nice:



























Things are coming along - feels good to be back at it.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I figure an up to date system diagram is in order. The only real revision is that I am using the MRP-F200 bridged to drive the mid-bass and two PH15 channels bridged into a passive to drive the center channel:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Who likes custom grills? This is the prototype - the final version, once I am done building the form frames (so they can be pressed more uniformly), will really make them nice. 

Press formed laser cut hexagon sheet metal looks sooo killer...


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I assume you aren't making these at come with a hammer and homemade die, right? These look awesome!

Jay


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> I assume you aren't making these at come with a hammer and homemade die, right? These look awesome!
> 
> Jay


That's the basic idea. I'll show a step by step of the tooling once done, maybe even today. It's pretty lo-fi, but very effective.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I didn't get to the grills - instead, I concentrated on the meat and potatoes stuff, like routing speaker wire. I ran the wire to the passenger door, the wires to the dashtop mids and sail panel tweets, as well as the center channel. Feels pretty good to have the little stuff done. Here are some pics to make for the lack of detail when doing the other door:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Just for fun, a test fit of the head unit...











And for more fun, some nice metric cap screws in black to replace the ugly philips head bright zinc fasteners. For comparison:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

It needed to be done: with the other pod past the proving stage, it was time to finally build the other side and get this project moving toward the glide path:

Tape and resin:









The rough form:









Trimmed, sphere added and placed:









I can see the music spanning the entire horizon...


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

What a day - lots of progress, no pics. Why? Because as the day was wrapping up, I decided to give frying my head unit a solid try.

The head unit wasn't powering up off of the Crutchfield harness adapter in the car, so I decided to take it back to the test bench and double check to make sure it wasn't dead. Wired it up to the bench battery and heard a sickening sizzle of frying electronics. Looking down, I see smoke coming from the head unit and quickly unclip the alligator clip from the battery. The hint that I'd f---ked s--t up: the alligator clip was so hot I got blister on my fingertip! 

Yeah, I wired it up backward. As I stared at my now assuredly dead Alpine CDA-7995, the urge the pitch it across the garage entered my mind. As proof that we do get wiser with age, I didn't chuck it. I figured I'd might as well at least test it before going PC LOAD LETTER on its ass. You never know, right?

This time, I hooked it up to my bench amp, connected the positive power correctly, then the negative. It made a noise, like the CD transport was moving. An unexpected good sign - that's normal! I then reached over, hit the power button and to my amazement, the head unit fired right up. The display worked and I could hear the static of an empty radio station. I decided to test the left and right channels from the main preamp leads with a CD – the CD loaded and the music played great. 

WTF was all of that smoke????? Do older Alpines have 9 lives worth of capacitors and resistors built in so they can fry a few and keep going? Simply WOW.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Here are the photos from yesterday's work. The head unit is installed and works fine. For the speaker and RCA wires, I used split techflex style conduit to bundle them, through existing body openings. Wires were bound to the existing harness, where possible and where not possible, I like using adesive backed zip tie mounts They work great for those areas where you can't find an easy anchor.


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

Lookin good man! Glad to hear that your HU is not relegated to intensive care!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

More good progress today. Wiring is done: speakers, power, ground, low voltage, you name it - all done. I even got some CLD tiles down, as well as some ensolite for the floors. 

I decided not to overboard on the CLD/Raammat, as the floors aren't the major noise intrusion mode. The doors will be another matter. Here are the pics:

Before carpets:

















After carpets:

















What will tomorrow bring? We'll soon find out. :surprised:


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Looking good! I miss our old Forester, was a great car to take up to the snow!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

In my hurry to get the car back together in the dark, I didn't get any photos of the PH15 and MS-8 in place before putting the seats back in. Needless to say, all that's left is wiring up the speakers for a test run! Well at least for the front stage (minus center channel, that is).

I'm kind of bummed to miss documenting the car in its "finished" state, pre-interior, but not so bummed that I jinx myself into having to tear it back apart again if something isn't working! 

Once it's all running, then I can worry about grafting the center speaker into the dash and finishing the subwoofer enclosures. _Now _I remember why it's so expensive to have a full custom install done!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Things are coming together. Most progress has been in two minute spurts before work or 30 minutes after work this week. I've been able to get the minijack installed into the dash area, as well as getting the speaker pods done (driver side is awaiting one more coat of paint). 

I decided to go with paint after trying to wrap the pods in vinyl. Besides being brutally difficult to wrap these organically shaped pods, the leather texture just looked kind of creepy. So instead, I found a satin brown paint that is a good match for the dash color.

I prepped the pods by smoothing them with filler and high build primer, then sanding them reasonably smooth. Since I was not going for a high gloss, auto body style finish, I decided to add some texture to the pods using auto body bumper texture. This works nicely in normalizing minor imperfections, as well as the satin paint doing its part in making these pods look pretty much perfect.

Here are some pics of the paint drying:

















Test fit of passenger side:

















The grills still aren't final, so will do a breakout demo on how I build those once I get through getting the system running.

As far as tweeter placement goes, I will be flush mounting the ribbon tweeters in the sail panel, very close to the pods:









Keeping them off-axis helps keep their minor overbrightness of the highest frequencies in check.


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## 3cyltrbo (Apr 11, 2011)

whats under the cover? 356 B?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

kenikh said:


> I'm kind of bummed to miss documenting the car in its "finished" state, pre-interior, but not so bummed that I jinx myself into having to tear it back apart again if something isn't working!
> 
> Once it's all running, then I can worry about grafting the center speaker into the dash and finishing the subwoofer enclosures. _Now _I remember why it's so expensive to have a full custom install done!


Man, I feel your pain! Towards the end of an install, the LAST thing I feel like doing is stopping to take pictures! It's looking good, though, man! Keep it up! Can't wait to find time to dive back into my install.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

3cyltrbo said:


> whats under the cover? 356 B?


'69 911S. It's on 356 wheels until it gets painted.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

The twins have finally arrived:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Sneak peek:









Lots of pics and commentary tomorrow.


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

woah.... nice ! L3 FTW!!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Time for a real update. 

I spent A LOT of time this weekend working on the build and am happy to say that today I am now happily listening to music in my car! But before I get ahead of myself, there’s plenty to fill in.
There was still some house cleaning on the wiring, especially in terms of the sail panels. So I fit the pods to set the wire length, then trim and add connectors:









With all of the wires in place and pods done, it was time to finally do the interior work on the pillars. The goal was to flush mount the tweeters in the pillars, very near the pods and make it all look as OEM-like as possible. First, I had to cut the sails to accommodate the tweeters. I popped them out of their frames and used the body of the frame as a template, then got cutting with the Dremel.

Let me emphasize that this was done in baby steps as it is much easier to remove material than add it back. I spent at least an hour per side with a fine file, shaping, fitting, reshaping, and refitting until the tweeters were a nice press/friction fit. Notice I also had to accommodate one of the clips to ensure they stayed in place:

















Once they were massaged in place, it was time for attention to detail. As you can see above, black tweeters really don’t cut in my car, so I decided to cover them in matching acoustic fabric. Still, that wasn’t going to get me all the way to the level of detail I wanted, so I popped out the Infinity logos and filled the mounting cavities with body filler, then sanded them smooth – you don’t want funky seams showing up later, after all.

Filler:









Smooth as a baby’s butt:









Oooooh, stealthy:









From there, I needed to mount the pods in a manner more secure than double stick tape. Machine screws to the rescue:

















The brown stuff around the vent (for infinite baffle into the under dash area) is rubber sealing tape. I then potted the fasteners in epoxy to keep any chance of shorting away:









And all said and done, it looks like this:









The MS-8 setup was easy and everything sounds pretty darned good. The midbass is lacking, but tracked that down to a oddity in my amp that requires using a connection splitter when bridging (thus the signal isn’t reaching the amp correctly). I’ll fix that once I get home and we should be good to go, until I get after finishing the rear hatch and installing the two 8” subs.

Tunes - FINALLY!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I spent tonight Raam matting and weather sealing the doors with polypropylene sheeting and butyl rope. I also got the amplifier splitter issue settled and decided to take the system for a whirl in full force. 

One recalibration and a spin with my standard test track, Stevie Ray Vaughan's "Little Wing" and...

*HOLY SH--*

I now know what "subwoofer optional" means!  The image was nose high and out on the hood of the car. Listening to "The Butcher" by Radiohead at 48kHz was orgasmic: Thom Yorke's voice just hovered in space beyond my reach and I could hear the location of every detail, including things I have missed on headphones...FTW!

So far, my high expectations have been met. The emit-N tweeters are every bit as good as the rose colored lenses told me they were. The Legatia L3, pure silky butter. The Premier 6.75" midbasses just POUND out tight, smooth, accurate bass. 120W/channel helps, too. And the PH15...man, they don't make them sound like that anymore.

For reference, here's my crossover setup for the MS-8:

Bottom: 20Hz @ 24db/oct
Midbass/Midrange: 400Hz @ 24db/oct
Midrange/Tweeter: 8,000Hz @ 24db/oct

This keeps the L3s from overworking, taking full advantage of their smooth high-midrange capability, still leaving the emit-n tweeters room to impart their magical sparkle...and the 720PRS can _take the pain_.

The only niggling detail is some minor hum when I use the aux-in on the MS-8; probably a cable issue.

I am a happy camper! I can't wait to get to the center channel and twin 8" subs next! Then it will be a party.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Nice! Glad to hear you finally have music! Is this with Logic 7 on or off?


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Logic7 is on.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

A little frustration today. After taking steps to control resonance and vibration in the doors, the bigger drivers just won't behave with the doors. The sound deadening isn't isolating all of the resonance. I am going to have research a bit more regarding model specific ways to get the doors rock solid. Some pics of the open doors:


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

What about the backside of the inner door panels? I seem to get more noise from them than the metal skin.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

saMxp said:


> What about the backside of the inner door panels? I seem to get more noise from them than the metal skin.


Looks like I will have to go that route - I was really trying to avoid adding a moisture trapping layer in an area that can get drips from the exterior. that will be next move. Any specific areas that seem more offensive than others or should I just go after it all?

I have seen some folks also coat the outer door skin with Raam mat, too.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

saMxp said:


> What about the backside of the inner door panels? I seem to get more noise from them than the metal skin.


I re-read this - did you mean the door panel or the inside of the metal skin of the door? I get the resonance even with the panels off of the doors.


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## windowlickingood (Feb 10, 2011)

kenikh said:


> With time coming in minutes versus hours, I continue to work on the mundane task of running power. Surprisingly satisfying to know that I can now get the full draw of a 4 gauge power line into the cabin! Here's the goods:


Is there no hole on the driver side behind the pedals to route the power wire through on this year and model? I would quote the pictures, but im too noob. Its a nice big hole, (no ****) with no wires running through that you can just slice open a lil and not have to worry about fishing through your ecu wires.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Man, there is no understating the fact that doors SUCK for big midbass drivers!!! 

I have spent HOURS and HOURS tracking down points of vibration and resonance in pursuit of quieting the hum and ring that comes from playing anything in 80Hz and below range. I imagine that once I get the subwoofers installed and adjust the crossover settings to roll off higher on the midbasses, this problem will lessen/go away.

Leaving nothing to chance, I worked at it and finally got the passenger door quiet. It required Raam matting the door skin, the inside and outside of the interior door metal AND doing serious work on the door panel, as well as some other tricks. The door panel:










I used gap filling expanding foam where I could, fiber fill where I couldn't, then carved it to fit tight to the door. Once installed, I filled every accessible cavity between the door and panel with fiber fill as suspension and dampening for panel to door gaps. I even took fiber fill and loaded the cavities around the woofer with it.

The passenger door now closes with a soft thud that an S Class Benz would be proud of. Now to open the driver's side and do the same work.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Nice work! When I swap the Dayton RS150's for RS180's, I suspect I'll need to copy much of what you did!

And earlier I was referring to the plastic door skin. Seems a lot more challenging to quiet it than the sheetmetal.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

saMxp said:


> Nice work! When I swap the Dayton RS150's for RS180's, I suspect I'll need to copy much of what you did!
> 
> And earlier I was referring to the plastic door skin. Seems a lot more challenging to quiet it than the sheetmetal.


Some things I've learned:

Even though my driver's will push down into the 20Hz range, keeping the crossover set at no lower than 35Hz @ 24db/oct keeps the resonance (and tendency to clip at high volume) at bay

Crossing the MB/MR at ~300Hz seems to be the sweet spot for transition

8000Hz MR/Tweeter is where its at with my setup

BTW, I love my setup other than one niggling issue: hiss. 

I am not sure if it is my install or the unit, but I am running out of guesses to the cause. Irrespective of volume, input setup, source...whatever, I get hiss at a constant decibel level coming through my speakers. Sounds just like the hiss you'd get on audio tapes. 

Most critical observation: The hiss does NOT increase in volume as system volume increases. It stays at a constant decibel level. 

I am going to have to troubleshoot and the first thing I will do is remove the MS-8 from the equation and pipe my head unit directly to the amp. I have heard little grumbling about the MS-8 being "noisy", but cannot beleive that audible hiss would come from my speakers, even when there is no music playing. Weird.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

kenikh said:


> An off topic ramble, but I was messing with a colleagues touch screen laptop today with Windows 7 media center. The touch controls with that UI is a MEAN solution for a car PC front end! I wandered over to mp3car.com to check out what it would take and the SQ possibilities are astounding. Using an outboard audiophile DAC between the PC and MS-8 aux input would open up terabytes of storage for thousands of CDs in the jukebox in native WAV and DVD audio format. A follow up project perhaps?


Whoa nelly, this just blew my mind! This guy did a fully PC driven, discrete audiophile crossover network:

The Building of a Pure Digital System

I want this in a car!!!

In the meantime, I never posted a pic of the poor man's version in my car. Not totally elegant, but it is compact and functional:


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

The days are running out to get things wrapped before the baby arrives, so I got up before work to finish installing one of my two subs. Nothing like installing and testing a subwoofer in the driveway at 6:30AM! 

While it looks like having two subs installed would have to wait until after the baby arrives, after listening, I really don't think it is necessary. The sub sounds great and has more than enough muscle, even though it is only getting 150W from the Infinity amp (I designed the system for two 4 Ohm 8" subs, wired parallel to get the impedance 2 Ohms and 312W x 1).

Maybe I will slap the spare JL into my wife's car, which has a B&O factory sub in it. The JL is just better in every way. I have enough spare amps with high level inputs that I could really drive that sucker, as long as the mounting depth will accomodate. Decissons, decisions...

...Oh yeah, pictures! I didn't take a ton, as the install is bit less clean than I'd have liked. In retrospect, I'd have gone with a fiberglass enclosure instead of using a pre-built kit, which was deigned for a later car (e.g. it didn't fit). Anyhow, here it is:


















The sub will hide behind the stock carpet and cover nicely - now I just need to refit it.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Things are coming along regarding tuning. What, you mean the MS-8 isn't perfect??? 

Regarding the MS-8: it does one hell of a job getting you in the ballpark. That said, I've had to spend a lot of time using a highly specialized and sophisticated spectrum analyzser (my ear), to tune the personality of the sound curve in an attempt to manage out some harshness. The good news is that the the MS-8's EQ seems up to the task. 

Initially, the midrange and lower end of the high frequency band was way too bold, leading to harshness and fatigue, especially at higher volumes. I've been working with attenutating the frequency curve between 500Hz and 7KHz and as a result, things are starting to smooth out dramatically. Not perfect yet, but getting there. Any time I doubt the value of the MS-8, I simply defeat the processing, which results in an immediate desire to barf.  

My latest quibble with the MS-8 is the interface. In a world of tactile experiences like touch screens, haptic feedback and even old school physical buttons, the MS-8 remote/screen interface eats the ass out of a dead horse, in comparison. I'd kill for a nice upgrade unit with a touch screen, real buttons and/or a jog knob for quick and easy navigation and frequency tweaking. 

Oh well, for $500, the MS-8 still does more than the price of entry would suggest!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Some other items of note. I've settled into the following crossiver points:

7KHz @24db/oct - tweeters/mids
400Hz @24db/oct - mids/MBs
100Hz @24db/oct - Sub/MB
25Hz @24db/oct - "subsonic" filtering

Door resonance:
It is intuitive to think that door resonance would decrease, now that the sub is picking up the really violent frequencies. I used to push the massive, high excursion 720PRS drivers down to 25Hz, which would make the doors ring like a doorbell at moderate volumes, even with my Raam Mat sarcophagus encasing everything.

Since rebalancing, the resonance hasn't decreased - it has _*disappeared*_. It is SUCH good news to have the vibrations gone, even at head imploding volume levels. As an added benefit, I am no longer hitting excursion limits of the 720PRS, even when driving them hard. Their bass response at lower volume levels was amazing, but just couldn't keep up with the rest of the system when the power was on without being overdriven.

Now things are settling into a nice gestalt. I getting am happier every day.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Crap man, I thought that was a 10W6 till I looked at your sig. I bet it looks factory with the panel back on.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

ecbmxer said:


> Crap man, I thought that was a 10W6 till I looked at your sig. I bet it looks factory with the panel back on.


Yes - it does. Here's an example of what it will look like:










I am already thinking that a single 10w7AE would work out in that location - that would pretty insane. Then again, the 8" is doing nicely, even on only on 150W.


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## mtbwrx (Jan 9, 2011)

really digging the detail work you are putting into this.
Subscribed.


I have some of those old ADS tweets and 3 inch or 4" speakers that were on some plates, I was going to use them for a center channel in my forester as well. Silky smooth is right.

I had a decent system in my 2008 forester.
But had to remove it all prior to a trade in....

Still have the sub box (which is for sale), it's made of baltic birch.
fits in the spare tire well, uses the spare tire bolt to hold it in place.

https://picasaweb.google.com/mtbwrx/StereoRemovalOn2006Forester#


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I'd like to second two of your notions:

1) Historically, I'd made tremendous efforts to turn my door into a sarcophagus so that I could use massive midbass drivers that allowed me to cross over between the sub and midbass in that 50-70Hz region in an effort to "pull the bass forward". With this install, the lowest I've used is 80Hz. It may be that the MS-8 is doing a better job at time alignment and providing the illusion that the bass is coming from the front. At least the higher order harmonics resulting from the sub/mid interplay?
It's so nice not chasing resonances and buzzing! Especially in a Subaru! Now, of course, I'm still going to chase some more midbass anyway!

2) Upper midrange harshness. I've dealt with the same. Since you're using a tweeter, though, couldn't you just turn down the gains on the mids a bit since they are playing directly in the offensive range?


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I think the MS-8 does a nice job of pulling the bass forward, even crossed over at 100Hz. That said, lower would be nice, but isn't in option in the Subaru doors. Given subies have great big dash cavities, it would be fun to one day use a driver like a HAT L8 in the dash as a center/MB...I remember someone doing this on the install forum.

Harshness...one thing that helped a lot: I inadvertently had MX turned on from the head unit. Turning it off helped, although still not perfect. I do need to play with the gains, as I think some of my issues are stemming from gain levels.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

*Ludicrous SQ*

A reminder to all who think they know what the proper gain level is on their amps. Set it right, do it the long way and don't cut corners. I spent some hours over the last few days dialing in my gains on all three amp, incrementally dialing them up from zero to find the point where no distrotion could be heard, even at top volume. The results?

LUDICROUS SQ. 

The fatigue from moderate level listening is gone, replaced by pure, silken, buttery goodness. My ultimate test for how clean the sound is, is to throw in something like Swervedriver, early Catherine Wheel or Silversun Pickups and really crank it up...the ambient noise in those tracks will murder you if you are generating system distrortion. I can listen to SSP's Lazy Eye at full tilt and it just rides out of the soundstage like a velvet sledgehammer. FCUK.

Frankly, the levels that can be listened to now without discomfort is eerie. Details explode from the sound stage and the instruments place themselves with freakishly tangible accuracy. You can hear height and depth differentiation in the sound stage. It just sits up there at nose level and moves from there. 

The bass is *firmly *planted on the dash - the only thing giving away the sub is behind me is a body panel rattle in the hatch I'll need to ferret out. I decided to cross thee sub/MBs at 80 Hz and it works great, with no door rattles. It just works.

I had no expectation of getting the SQ to this level. I am floored.

One more note, an apology to the MS-8: I doubted you, I blamed you and I was WRONG. The MS-8 is a miracle, a noise free beast that does silly warlock magic on music. Now that I have my gains dialed in, I LOVE it. BUY it. Use it. Let it set you free.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Nice. So did you end up dialing your gains up a bit from where they were before? If so, just make sure you don't have unacceptable (to you) hiss with a silent track. I'm not really sure what level of hiss is OK. I know in mine, you can hear a bit when the volume is maxed (30/35 is my max) on a zero volume track. Not sure if it's just the amps' noise floor or what. FWIW, my amp gains are all at almost half (just a coincidence, I used the same method to set gains and kept them a bit conservative even).

Seriously jealous of how clean that sub panel is. Did they have a factory sub back there or what?


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

3 way active with 55Wx6 buys a lot of clean power. Idiotically, my gains were all the way up...not sure how that happened. Now, I have the gains dialed back, a few degrees below half, so hiss only begins to appear at 30 on a silent track. Barely.

My year car didn't have a sub there, but later cars did, a crappy IB 6x9. You can get about 1.25 cubic feet back behind the cover, so the options are good.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Thats awesome. I vote you stick a JL 8W7 behind it.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Ha. Then I'd need a JBL 1000.1!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

As promised, here's the newly obscured sub:









The side panels are semi-rigid and really lent themselves well to adding sound deading. I sprayed the inside surface with Super 77 adhesive, then formed Ensolite onto the sticky surface. Between that and stuffing the side panels with poly-fill, the car is slowly starting to get eerily quiet (comparatively speaking).


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Nice!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

And another chapter comes to a close...the Forester is being retired for a new vehicle and a new build. Check it out here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...a-sportwagen-sq-install-hat-morel-os-d-s.html


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Chaos said:


> Impressive custom install work for sure. I pity you on the day you change cars and have to take all of that out.


Damn you for your wisdom!!!


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