# HE 6.5" Alternatives



## HulkSmash (May 22, 2011)

I've seen the PHL 1120 and Audax PR170M0 used in three way horn set ups. 

Has anybody used any other 6.5" speakers in this service? I've looked at a few B&C pieces and found a JBL 195H that looks like it could possibly work. 

Any other possibilities?


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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

Just looking to try something different or is there something the pr170 is missing?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

both are dedicated midranges and shouldnt really be crossed as low as a typical 6.5


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

For $25, the Pyle PPA6 isn't too shabby.

I'm replacing my 8NDL51s with the Pyles.

The 8NDL51s are definitely cleaner above 1000hz, but they're also six times as expensive.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

18 Sound, Ciare, Beyma, Faital Pro just to name a few.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I have the Audax paired with Mylar CD2's on big bodies, and I can't imagine a better combo. It's like they were meant for each other, it's simply marvelous.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LumbermanSVO said:


> I have the Audax paired with Mylar CD2's on big bodies, and I can't imagine a better combo. It's like they were meant for each other, it's simply marvelous.


how low do you have the audax playing?


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

At the moment they are high passed at 200hz @48db, but I don't have any midbass drivers either, I just didn't have time to start on that project before hitting the road for 5 months. 

The mids are low passed at 1600 and the horns are high passed at the same. Playing with the different slopes seems to have very little effect on them. No matter what, they just blended well together. I've never before come across two different speakers that paired so well together.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Those should do well: 
Ciare NDK6-1.5 - Ciare NDK6-1.5 is a 6.5 inch lightweight neodymium midrange speaker for all midrange speaker systems- Ciare Speakers - Ciare NDK6-1.5 6.5 inch lighweight neodymium midrange speaker. Ciare NDK6-1.5 6.5 inch midrange speakers 
Faital Pro 6PR122 6.5" Speakers - Faital Pro 6PR122 midrange speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 6PR122 240 watt 6.5" has an efficiency of 97dB SPL woofer for all high quality midrange applications. Faital Pro 6PR122 

Kelvin


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## HulkSmash (May 22, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys. Just looking at options to see if anybody's used any thing other than the PHL and Audax pieces. I've got resin veritas horns with the Dayton D250 motor and a pair of JBL 2118's. Thought about using a dedicated mid operating from ~300hz to ~2,000hz. Use the JBL as a pure midbass.


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## HulkSmash (May 22, 2011)

Patrick Bateman said:


> For $25, the Pyle PPA6 isn't too shabby.
> 
> I'm replacing my 8NDL51s with the Pyles.
> 
> The 8NDL51s are definitely cleaner above 1000hz, but they're also six times as expensive.


Realistically, I should go all Pyle, lol (It's my last name).


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## HulkSmash (May 22, 2011)

ca90ss said:


> 18 Sound, Ciare, Beyma, Faital Pro just to name a few.


I've looked at a bunch from those guys, just didn't know if anybody had actually used one. I'm probably going with the Audax realistically, but wanted to make sure i'd crossed my I's and dotted my T's.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HulkSmash said:


> I've looked at a bunch from those guys, just didn't know if anybody had actually used one. I'm probably going with the Audax realistically, but wanted to make sure i'd crossed my I's and dotted my T's.


just make sure you got a beefy midbass to go with them


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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

Personally, I think the 2118 works best when you want to run a 2-way. If you were to go to a 3-way then I'd run a different midbass. Something with a lower FS and more xmax but still in the 94-95db range.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The Dayton PM180 is very good midrange from what I hear.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I felt balzy with my new dsp and decided to build a brick wall filter at 150hz with the pr170mo. And by god it plays through it just fine. I changed the filter to a self defined 96db @200hz and it's working and sounds great. I been trying to measure xmax real time, but I think it's right at its max limit of .5mm

I also tryed the Beyma 6g40. What a outstanding sounding driver. I am actually using it right now, good xmax fs is always too high so I stay above it slightly. But I'm comparison to the audax, the Beyma sounds noticeably better up to about 500hz above that the audax really comes out ahead. 

I've also have the b&c 6NDL38 which is a fantastic driver all around. Lower fs and a 
de-modring. Overall I like this one the best as far as getting down to 160-125hz.

The audax still sounds better above 500 and I really love a smooth midrange that just dosent quit. 

Out of the ones I have (and theaters a lot I don't have that are very very good) I like the b&c the most if there wouldn't be a midbass along with it . 

There's actually a Dayton that I've been eyeing that has been itching for me to buy at 94$ea. Can't remember the sku :/


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

BMS has a couple of 6s as well.

The 18Sound 6 is a really nice 6 as well.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

HulkSmash said:


> I've looked at a bunch from those guys, just didn't know if anybody had actually used one. I'm probably going with the Audax realistically, but wanted to make sure i'd crossed my I's and dotted my T's.


You WILL have to use a midbass along with it . Same goes for a 2118H (unless you like distortion under 300hz) ((flame me lets go))
The Beyma 8G40 IMO is a much better sounding speaker than the 2118H
And the 6G40nd is superb.


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

oabeieo said:


> I felt balzy with my new dsp and decided to build a brick wall filter at 150hz with the pr170mo. And by god it plays through it just fine. I changed the filter to a self defined 96db @200hz and it's working and sounds great. I been trying to measure xmax real time, but I think it's right at its max limit of .5mm
> 
> I also tryed the Beyma 6g40. What a outstanding sounding driver. I am actually using it right now, good xmax fs is always too high so I stay above it slightly. But I'm comparison to the audax, the Beyma sounds noticeably better up to about 500hz above that the audax really comes out ahead.
> 
> ...


How low could you get the 6ndl38? On paper it seems like 80hz wouldnt' be out of reach for it given it's xmax and lowish sensitivity. Kind of a mix of a hifi and pro audio driver.


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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

Using the thread topic as a reference, is the 6ndl38 sensitivity high enough? It's rated at 92db/1w and the fr graph makes it look like around 91db through it's usable bandwidth. The Beyma 6g40 looks to be a good 3db higher at the the expensive of a little bottom end.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

LumbermanSVO said:


> At the moment they are high passed at 200hz @48db, but I don't have any midbass drivers either, I just didn't have time to start on that project before hitting the road for 5 months.
> 
> The mids are low passed at 1600 and the horns are high passed at the same. Playing with the different slopes seems to have very little effect on them. No matter what, they just blended well together. I've never before come across two different speakers that paired so well together.


Crazy, that is exactly where I ended up with mine- except I have midbass. 
200-48 works, and 1600 I like to keep TA away from the horns. 

Must be right if we both ended up same spot


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

strohw said:


> Using the thread topic as a reference, is the 6ndl38 sensitivity high enough? It's rated at 92db/1w and the fr graph makes it look like around 91db through it's usable bandwidth. The Beyma 6g40 looks to be a good 3db higher at the the expensive of a little bottom end.


If your doing a 2 way, you won't want anything more sensitive than that, unless you sub can play quite high in frequency. For a 3 way, something more effecient would be useable.


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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

T3mpest said:


> If your doing a 2 way, you won't want anything more sensitive than that, unless you sub can play quite high in frequency. For a 3 way, something more effecient would be useable.


OP says 3 way unless you were referring to your comment? I was just mentioning it's low efficiency in reference to the OP and suggestions.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

oabeieo said:


> Crazy, that is exactly where I ended up with mine- except I have midbass.
> 200-48 works, and 1600 I like to keep TA away from the horns.
> 
> Must be right if we both ended up same spot


I agree!

I got to listen to it a bit while I was home for the weekend, and it was everything I remembered from before I left town 26 days before. The mids and horns are just "one" together. I can't think of any better way to describe it. What's crazy about it is how little tuning I have done with this setup. It shouldn't sound that good with so little tuning!

Hopefully when I get some time off in September Eric will be shipping his ES Audio 8's and 10's, I can see how they blend with the Audax mids.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

T3mpest said:


> How low could you get the 6ndl38? On paper it seems like 80hz wouldnt' be out of reach for it given it's xmax and lowish sensitivity. Kind of a mix of a hifi and pro audio driver.


It goes to 80. On a steep slope no problem. It looses a bit of efficiency under 125hz , but you could even play it with no HPF at lower levels. What I really like about it is on a 125hz HPF this thing gets silly loud with almost no breakup modes to 2k. 

Easily one of the very best all around drivers I have. Awesome SQ.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

strohw said:


> Using the thread topic as a reference, is the 6ndl38 sensitivity high enough? It's rated at 92db/1w and the fr graph makes it look like around 91db through it's usable bandwidth. The Beyma 6g40 looks to be a good 3db higher at the the expensive of a little bottom end.


The problem is you can't get under 100hz with high sensitivity unless you have a lot of surface area (8"-10"-12") meaning over 95db 1w . It's just not possible,

The Beyma dosent get as low as the b&c but has a amazingly awesome 300-1k range, the b&c is just really well executed for kinda all around. Dosent excel anywhere but also dosent lack anything.


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## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

Maybe I phrased my paragraph wrong. I meant that the 6ndl38 doesn't seem like a good suggestion when the OP intends on running at 3 way. The benefit of it playing lower doesn't seem like it would matter in this case.

I will say that I must have read the graph on the 6g40 wrong. It doesn't look like the 6g40 is any more sensitive than the 6ndl38 through most of it's bandwidth. If both graphs are done free air it also shows the 6ndl38 rolling off before the 6g40. I assume they aren't.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

strohw said:


> Maybe I phrased my paragraph wrong. I meant that the 6ndl38 doesn't seem like a good suggestion when the OP intends on running at 3 way. The benefit of it playing lower doesn't seem like it would matter in this case.
> 
> I will say that I must have read the graph on the 6g40 wrong. It doesn't look like the 6g40 is any more sensitive than the 6ndl38 through most of it's bandwidth. If both graphs are done free air it also shows the 6ndl38 rolling off before the 6g40. I assume they aren't.


Oh I was under impression he was doing a 6.5 alone as a "alternative ". As the thread reads. I guess I thought he meant three way total system not 3way fronts 

My mistake in that case yeah there's better than that with a added midbass. A lot better actually


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