# Zuki amps, soon to be revieled.



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm a home member on another forum. There we have two people that repair amps. 1 does it as a hobby and the other is his 9-5 job. A bunch of us on that forum got together to and bought a Zuki amp to see just what is it that's so special about these amps compared to others. We're not sure just yet if we're going to share the posted forum thread to others, but we will let others know the "truth" behind the Zuki amps. We're keeping an open mind and hope it's as good as others report. I will keep you updated.


----------



## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

smgreen20 said:


> I'm a home member on another forum. There we have two people that repair amps. 1 does it as a hobby and the other is his 9-5 job. A bunch of us on that forum got together to and bought a Zuki amp to see just what is it that's so special about these amps compared to others. We're not sure just yet if we're going to share the posted forum thread to others, but we will let others know the "truth" behind the Zuki amps. We're keeping an open mind and hope it's as good as others report. I will keep you updated.


Im slightly mixed on this one. While i dont think theres any "magic" besides good engineering, i think its wrong to publish something that the creater has asked people not to publish.

However at the same time, i dont think its right for him to ban people from letting it out... 

IDK... Zuki will post his own opinions.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

"Lo que esta pa'ti nadie te lo quita"


----------



## audioman42 (Oct 20, 2006)

Automatically translated text:
What this pa'ti nobody ever removes what


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

lol, "No one can take what is meant for you".


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Just dont show any of the pics of the internals...or Elvis will get you....


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

It was bound to happen but this kinda makes me sad. I enjoyed watching people get so upset with his 5w ratings.


----------



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

t3sn4f2 said:


> "Lo que esta pa'ti nadie te lo quita"


yo no sabia que to hablas espanol. Eres hispano o que? yo naci en estados unidos, pero mis papas son de Espana....


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

AzGrower said:


> Just dont show any of the pics of the internals...or Elvis will get you....


Told you he wasn't dead!


----------



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> Told you he wasn't dead!


Nope, he just "left" the building thats all


----------



## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

Anyone that wants to keep the magic alive... dont read the thread.


----------



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

I dont care if he puts underwear gnomes in his amps....all I care about is how freaking clean these amps perform...its jawdropping.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

AzGrower said:


> yo no sabia que to hablas espanol. Eres hispano o que? yo naci en estados unidos, pero mis papas son de Espana....


Si soy Cubano, naci aya y vine paca con quatro años. I can speak it much better then how I write it.  

Translation for the curious. "Yeah I'm Cuban, came here when I was 4"


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

AzGrower said:


> I dont care if he puts underwear gnomes in his amps....all I care about is how freaking clean these amps perform...its jawdropping.


So clean you get messy drool on yourselfs? There's a whole lotta shakin goin' on with that statement.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

CMR22 said:


> It was bound to happen but this kinda makes me sad. I enjoyed watching people get so upset with his 5w ratings.


The big dogs in Vegas have it going out currently at 3:1 that the four channel does 75-85 watts per at 4 ohm. Want in on that?


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Si soy Cubano, naci aya y vine paca con quatro años. I can speak it much better then how I write it.
> 
> Translation for the curious. "Yeah I'm Cuban, came here when I was 4"


Damn, I should have been able to guess from your user name!

Juan


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Si soy Cubano, naci aya y vine paca con quatro años. I can speak it much better then how I write it.
> 
> Translation for the curious. "Yeah I'm Cuban, came here when I was 4"


i hope so. you write it like those annoying rafters or (escorias) talk it. like they have a huge potato in their mouth when they're talking. and they start everything with, Oye Mira!

LOL.

i could care less how many "actual" watts the Zuki Eleets 4ch provides. to me it sounds 200 times better than a JL300/4, DD S4 or Monitor 1. hot or cold, rain or shine, hip hop or classical this amp is candy to my ears. i'm saving up to buy another one.


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

I tried to buy one but couldnt get prices for the various amps to decide which ones I would want.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

email Patrick.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

BassBaller5 said:


> Im slightly mixed on this one. While i dont think theres any "magic" besides good engineering, i think its wrong to publish something that the creater has asked people not to publish.
> 
> However at the same time, i dont think its right for him to ban people from letting it out...
> 
> IDK... Zuki will post his own opinions.


I think it's wrong for a company to expect people to buy their products while at the same time refusing to provide the consumer with information about said products.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> The big dogs in Vegas have it going out currently at 3:1 that the four channel does 75-85 watts per at 4 ohm. Want in on that?


Shoot, I didn't see that. I bet on the over/under which is currently set at 80.5w (avg per channel at 1% THD with 12.6v).


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> I think it's wrong for a company to expect people to buy their products while at the same time refusing to provide the consumer with information about said products.


i think Bose would disagree. LOL.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> i think Bose would disagree. LOL.


I couldn't care less what Bose disagrees with. I won't buy their stuff either.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

I hope everything is revealed about these amps just to piss off all the secrecy people!


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

jj_diamond said:


> email Patrick.


we emailed back and forth about 10 times, and I answered the same questions about 3 times and then got no prices. And have been waiting about 3 weeks.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

grampi said:


> I hope everything is revealed about these amps just to piss off all the secrecy people!


What did Zuki refuse to tell you when you discussed the amps with him?


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> What did Zuki refuse to tell you when you discussed the amps with him?


The same thing all the other "secrecy" people refuse to tell, how much power the amps actually make.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> I hope everything is revealed about these amps just to piss off all the secrecy people!


nothing posted will piss me off because i have one and hear it everyday with a smile on my face.


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

dejo said:


> I tried to buy one but couldnt get prices for the various amps to decide which ones I would want.


.....and when you get them bring them by, I want a listen.


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

more looking at other solutions now, kinda turned off from the whole thing. I was all hyped up and ready to buy, but then just wait and wait is a turn off. would still like to hear them, and prolly would use them too.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

dejo said:


> more looking at other solutions now, kinda turned off from the whole thing. I was all hyped up and ready to buy, but then just wait and wait is a turn off. would still like to hear them, and prolly would use them too.


i'd love to see what makes teh zuki so "special". but really if someone were to make me swear to keep a certain secret about their amps i'd cancel the order. just not good business. i know i probably hurt some feelings by posting this but i don't care. and like with other things, one mans treasure is another mans "meh".


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

I wonder if Zuki realizes just how many perspective customers they're alienating by playing this stupid secrecy numbers game?


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

OldOneEye said:


> Damn, I should have been able to guess from your user name!
> 
> Juan


My user name? Whys that, it has nothing to do with that.


----------



## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

Well you knew it was going to happen sooner or later. Without any kind of protection circuitry, I give them about 11 seconds before they blow it up trying to measure max power.....if it starts a thermal runaway.....there is nothing to stop it from melting. 

I am more than pleased I bought mine, they work for me. Power ratings be damned, these things are clean.....incredibly clean.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> i hope so. you write it like those annoying rafters or (escorias) talk it. like they have a huge potato in their mouth when they're talking. and they start everything with, Oye Mira!
> 
> LOL.
> 
> i could care less how many "actual" watts the Zuki Eleets 4ch provides. to me it sounds 200 times better than a JL300/4, DD S4 or Monitor 1. hot or cold, rain or shine, hip hop or classical this amp is candy to my ears. i'm saving up to buy another one.


A singar! See, I can say that too


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> i'd love to see what makes teh zuki so "special". but really if someone were to make me swear to keep a certain secret about their amps i'd cancel the order. just not good business. i know i probably hurt some feelings by posting this but i don't care. and like with other things, one mans treasure is another mans "meh".


For the record: You are not sworn to secrecy, they are your amps in every way, he just has his reasons for not wanting the internals posted. I received top-notch customer service from the get go with him, out of pure respect for his wishes, I keep the lid on mine. How can you go against the wishes of someone who has been nothing but nice? I just can't ethically do it.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> HillbillySq,
> 
> Want to save some money and lose some weight?
> 
> Go to a restaurant and tell the chef unless he tells you how he makes his famous food, "That you won't eat IT", Then tell him he is driving away customers just like "Coca Cola" did by not revealing their ingredients, also explain to him why "Kentucky fried chicken will fail in your eyes...by not giving away their recipe


Somewhat valid point, the only difference is that anyone that wants to know whats inside the amp in order to steal a design can easily do it as opposed to trying to find a recipe and all others just want to look to make sure they are getting what they payed for. So basically hes not protecting anything, he's just keeping valuable inf. from honest customers.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

all points taken. might eventually try a zuki but now is not the time. the didn't mean to sound like an ass a couple replies up.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

exactly. I'd like to see some specs on what I'm purchasing that's all. Because of it I won't even consider them. Hell, he won't even publish measurements of the amp sizes, or of the subs etc.

I'm not saying they aren't amazing amps, but I'd like to know what I'm getting for my money. That's like buying a car and going "ooo I'll drop $30k because it's so secretive".


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

CMR22 said:


> Shoot, I didn't see that. I bet on the over/under which is currently set at 80.5w (avg per channel at 1% THD with 12.6v).


Oh, nice!

You know, lets say the amp is very generously underrated by 50%. That would put it 7.5 watts per and would definitely be satisfactory to me. As long as I get a real sense of what I'm getting, then I'm happy. And 7.5 watts should be more than sufficient for my needs. Did I mention I'm going to be doing a line array with supertweeters on the dash?


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

Daishi said:


> exactly. I'd like to see some specs on what I'm purchasing that's all. Because of it I won't even consider them. Hell, he won't even publish measurements of the amp sizes, or of the subs etc.
> 
> I'm not saying they aren't amazing amps, but I'd like to know what I'm getting for my money. That's like buying a car and going "ooo I'll drop $30k because it's so secretive".


Exactly. Let's say I'm looking for an amp that'll do 150 X 2 into 4 ohms to run a pair of comps. Am I going to be happy with an amp that only puts out 75-85 per channel? Probably not. No matter how amazingly clean that 75-85 watts is, it's just not enough power to do the job. But if I know that up front, I know I need to look elsewhere. If I don't know it up front, what's to say I wouldn't end up buying an amp that isn't capable of doing the job I need it to do? I don't know why all the secrecy enablers can't understand this simple notion. And I don't want to hear the crap about you can figure out what it puts out by using the fuse rating in some BS formula. Screw that! Just give me the damn numbers!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

cajunner said:


> what the secrecy does, is force people not to be able to compare numbers and determine the outcome based on "more or less" type thinking, but actually either purchase them on reputation alone, or seek them out to audition them. This in turn then forces anyone who has one to make damn sure their install is right, because they know people will want to hear them.
> 
> So it's forcing certain aspects of the hobby to be quality-determinant on the end user, and as a result ensures that the likelihood the first bunch of amps are going to be installed properly, compared to the mish-mash of install mishaps some people call a system.
> 
> ...


That's fine if you have the means to swap out amps until you're able to determine which one fits your power needs, but what is a person supposed to do when they buy an amp that's underpowered, put it on ebay and sell it for what you can get and then move on to the next more powerful amp? Sounds like a lot of wasted money to me. And the difference between 70 and 100 watts might be barely noticeable, but the difference between 75 and 150 is absolutely noticeable.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Here's the thing, what they want to know"doesn't help them to do what they claim it will help them do"
> 
> I need this info to keep from posting A] my amp goes into protect WHY !!
> B] My speakers blew WHY !! C] How is it they have all the info they need from the other amplifier manufacturers , but still can't be HAPPY
> ...


I get what you are saying, but I guess he only wants a select few to buy his stuff since not everyone can understand the logic behind how he specs things. 

He could be rating things 20-20K under .005% over a good period of time, in which 5 watts is probably the highest output that even the best amps will give when looked at that way.


----------



## QtrHorse (Oct 17, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> They are posted in various "Zuki Eleets" and Zuki amplifiers threads, can you search for them?
> 
> Or would you prefer I find it for you?


I would rather you found the info for me please.


----------



## MuTT (Apr 4, 2007)

I was talking to Patrick about picking some of these up, super nice guy thats for sure..
but, I was made to feel like I was applying for the position of owning a Zuki, was kinda weird. The pricing was definitely good if the amps are anywhere near as nice as "they" say.

I was two seconds from completing the transaction when the thought came to me.....

...if I went to McDonalds and ordered their new "magic burger" because I heard it was the best damn burger ever, then the cashier started to quiz me with stuff like "well what kind of burgers do you usually eat"...."what make you think you will even like this burger"........"I dunno man, those burgers you already had are some big juicy burgers, I don't think you need one of our "magic burgers""....

and after all that, I get my burger, sit down, and go to open it up to see whats inside and the whole restaraunt quickly tuns to me and gasps, and security comes over and says "hey, just eat the burger and enjoy, you can't just be opening up that burger and seeing what you paid for and even worse let the "others" see"...what were you thinking!

....I'm thinking the second best burger in the world is the one for me.



...(thats a baconator by the way)


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

QtrHorse said:


> I would rather you found the info for me please.


The thrill is in the hunt. You will be rewarded with joys that you can not get with any other amp when you search and search and find out that you can in fact fit the amp in your install.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

The car audio world is a bunch of suckers. Everyone eats up "hey this amp is overated I'm getting more power than what I paid for." 

Class A/B amps are old technology. They have been recycled and cloned to death since the 80's. What more are you going to get out of it? Technology has moved on, full range efficiency is the new kid on the block.

Buy an amp with enough power and headroom for what you want to do, and I think you get the same effect as the mystery amps.

BTW, if you headunit has a 2V preout, and you set the gain to minimum, than you will get your 5W that you paid for. You want more? Turn the gain knob until it reachs desired output before you hear clipping and hiss. Amazing concept.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

it makes me laugh how some of you can sit here all day and talk crap and hate on something you've never heard yet everyone that actually owns one is beyond satisfied with their purchase. lawry's!!!!! 

and some of you mental midgets also make fun of Patrick's "slime" covered reference CD's with "green sharpie" on them. ya'll really don't have a clue, do you??

by the way John, the Audionutz reference CD's are a nice add to any collection. but as far as SQ goes, they get spanked by Patrick's CD's IMO.

...although after speaking with Steve about the Audionutz CD's i have. they are not meant to be SQ recordings just a good addition to any music collection. so i appologize for bringing this up.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

QtrHorse said:


> I would rather you found the info for me please.


He's not going to give you that info. At best he'll come back with some numbers to plug into some cockamamy formula.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> it makes me laugh how some of you can sit here all day and talk crap and hate on something you've never heard yet everyone that actually owns one is beyond satisfied with their purchase. lawry's!!!!!


Yeah, but is that satisfaction due purely to the performance of the amp, or is it a slanted satisfaction because you were given the amp, or it was sold to you at an incredible discount in order to promote it? There's always a reason someone is willing to offer a glad hand.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> and some of you mental midgets also make fun of Patrick's "slime" covered reference CD's with "green sharpie" on them. ya'll really don't have a clue, do you??
> 
> by the way John, the Audionutz reference CD's are a nice add to any collection. but as far as SQ goes, they get spanked by Patrick's CD's IMO.


I appreciate zuki taking the time to make the CD's I got from him, but some of the tracks are still clipped like they are on the original discs and as far as the slime and green marker, the green marker does nothing and the slime makes it ***** for me to put into my CD album holder. They sound like all my other CD's.

BTW, zuki amps will clip liek any other amp. Don't think for one minute they have unlimited headroom. It's a little something called voltage rails-you can't exceed them in an amp and every amp has them.

Carry on Church of Zuki.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> Yeah, but is that *satisfaction due purely to the performance of the amp*, or is it a slanted satisfaction because you were given the amp, or it was sold to you at an incredible discount in order to promote it? There's always a reason someone is willing to offer a glad hand.


that's it. i paid full price. and waited over 2 weeks.


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Honestly, even with Zuki's posted price for the small 4ch Eleet, i'm suprised it took this long for someone to buy one just to open it up and get some pics. 

I looked into getting a pair of the 4ch Eleets to run an active 3 way front, but i couldn't make the pair fit behind my seat, so i ended up going with an Arc KS900.6. Had i got the Zuki's i would have kept them sealed if Patrick had requested it, but i understand wanting to "get the secret out."


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

durwood said:


> I appreciate zuki taking the time to make the CD's I got from him, but some of the tracks are still clipped like they are on the original discs and as far as the slime and green marker, the green marker does nothing and the slime makes it ***** for me to put into my CD album holder. They sound like all my other CD's.
> 
> BTW, zuki amps will clip liek any other amp. Don't think for one minute they have unlimited headroom. It's a little something called voltage rails-you can't exceed them in an amp and every amp has them.
> 
> Carry on Church of Zuki.


do you have any of the Audionutz Reference CD's? when have you ever seen me post that the amp has unlimited headroom? every amp clips.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> that's it. i paid full price. and waited over 2 weeks.


Sorry to bring this up, but these are the kinds of things secrecy brews up.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> Sorry to bring this up, but these are the kinds of things secrecy brews up.


i have nothing to hide and post only from owning and listening everyday. and it's not the only amp i've owned or listened to.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> do you have any of the Audionutz Reference CD's? when have you ever seen me post that the amp has unlimited headroom?


I didn't pinpoint the headroom comment on anyone, but it's worth thinking about for those considering buying mystery amps.

I don't have any Audionutz CD's, I have plenty of original discs though. 

Please tell me you could tell any difference in an original vs Audionutz discs in a blind ABX test and tell me what you hear that is different and make sure it's statistically significant I.E. not a 50/50 guessing game. Psychological effects are very powerful.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

durwood said:


> I didn't pinpoint the headroom comment on anyone, *but it's worth thinking about for those considering buying mystery amps.*
> 
> I don't have any Audionutz CD's, *I have plenty of original discs though*.
> 
> *Please tell me* you could tell any difference in an original vs Audionutz discs in a blind ABX test and tell me what you hear that is different and make sure it's statistically significant I.E. not a 50/50 guessing game. *Psychological effects are very powerful*.


if you think any amp has unlimited head room then you enjoy listening to distortion.

are you assuming i don't?

i can't. i've never done such a test.

both good and bad.  

if you don't own any of the Audionutz CD's how do you know what i'm talking about?


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> will have a little bit more when other amps don't [ read top end ].


So it's got some built in equaliztion in higher frequencies?

My comment about headroom was not in favor of Zuki amps. It was a general comment about what the absolute limit that determines the point of clipping in electrical terms.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> if you don't own any of the Audionutz CD's how do you know what i'm talking about?


We are straying OT, but I'll continue...because I know it doesn't matter. An original is an original CD. How do you get any more out of that? What gains are to be had?

BTW, If you already bought a Zuki amp and it fits your needs, more power to you for being brave. The ones considering buying, just ask yourself if it fits your needs, if not move on.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

wow.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Sorry more OT again,

You know what would be fun, do a bit for bit comparison of an original track against a burned copy extracted via EAC and see if it matches.


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Here is the part I don't get. The secrecy is so big on the part that as someone already mentioned, is class AB technology that has been worked on for decades. So why the big deal about pictures (which are just going to show a Class AB amp with probably some nice parts... but assuming the volume it could be a design anyone could take to a build house to get down since it costs extra to be able to own your own design). 

I mean, what I want to hear is "I know Garry Springgay and he will run a full test on it and I'll post the results". That more than pictures is what I'm curious about.

Juan


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> i am using 2 channels of the zuki amp so 5x2 on the new alpine spx pro components ran passive. it sounds so much better and gets louder then either the diamond 600.2 or the PG MS2125 i've had on these speakers previously!


Now we're getting somewhere! Finally something I can relate to. I used to have a 2125 and I can tell you it was an excellent amp, very powerful and clean sounding. If the Zuki outdoes the 2125, it must be a VERY impressive amp. Is the amp he's referring to the $405 or the $604 amp?


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

OldOneEye said:


> Here is the part I don't get. The secrecy is so big on the part that as someone already mentioned, is class AB technology that has been worked on for decades. So why the big deal about pictures (which are just going to show a Class AB amp with probably some nice parts... but assuming the volume it could be a design anyone could take to a build house to get down since it costs extra to be able to own your own design).
> 
> I mean, what I want to hear is "I know Garry Springgay and he will run a full test on it and I'll post the results". That more than pictures is what I'm curious about.
> 
> Juan


Who's that guy? A simple RMS test and Burst test would be great. Pro Audio has guy that does this for pro amps.

Anyone here could go to china, source a 100X4 or 200Wx4 amp, slap it into a heatsink and call if 5Wx4. As long as the power supply has high enough voltage rails, it's easy to get headroom. Optimise the amp for 8 ohm, 4 ohm, or 2 ohm load and get all available power depending on your need. Simple.


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

cajunner said:


> so you're going on the presumption that you need 150 watts for your personal requirements, that's a quantity number based on what you know for your needs, right?
> 
> I think Zuki is using this ploy for several reasons, the biggest of which is to create an aura of distinction whenever his amps come up in a discussion.
> 
> ...


I believe you hit the nail on the head, in that the amps themselves are not some weird 'physics defying' devices that somehow have 'WAYYY more output than anything else on the planet', but are a standard design with a certain sonic 'signature' built-in that gives them thier 'supposed' 'pleasing sound'...

That would most certainly show up on a distortion plot at a reasonable power output, but may not at only a 5watt output (which may show only .005% THD as claimed at that output level)... So maybe the THD at a 'given' 'real' rated power level of say 100watts, might just be something like 18%, or even 32% because of thier 'special sauce' circuitry to give them thier 'signature' 'sound'...

But, that begs the question, do you still *KNOW* what you are buying???

I mean an amplifier, as it has been argued forever, only has ONE purpose, and that is to amplify an input signal while adding NOTHING to it... The best amps on the market tout high output abilities with ruler flat frequency reponse and extremely low THD... THAT is the set of standards being applied to the amplifier market...

If you want these 'Zuki' products to stand out, then sell them because of thier 'Signature Sound', in that it is not 'pure' or 'unmodified' from the input signal, but a 'special' sound given to the output... Just like tube amplifiers are well known to have thier own 'special sound' to them, then these should be marketed as the same... Would get rid of a ton of the hyperbole and stupidity, and would offer a 'real' marketing basis for the product... But to argue that they are 'better' than all other amps and 'soo much cleaner' which to any of us that know better just shows those that tout them as such are either completely nieve and never have owned good amplifiers, are completely snowed and have more placebo affect than anyone else (and spending money can do that to people), or just plan flat out have been bought to sell the product in any of a number of ways... Take your pick, but if they are just 'good amps' that put out clean, undistorted, non-signaturized, completely exact per the input signal, sound, then there is nothing 'special' about them and it is all just hyperbole like everyone is saying...

Again, if they have built in 'distortion' to give them thier 'special sound' then so be it and sell it as such, but when something is marketed as an 'amplifier' with .005%THD, then it leaves the impression that it doesn't modify the signal in any way...

Any way you look at it, this 'Zuki'-stupidity is just that, stupid... I just can't stand people trying to 'sell' the 'zuki'-ness like a cult selling a religion... I love lots of products I own and have become faithful consumers of those brands because I expect the same quality, features, sound, etc from them that I liked in thier previous products, but that does not make me try to be blind about what they are, how they perform, where thier weaknesses are and how suitable they may or may not be for given applications... The 'zuki'-stupidity just has to stop, either by common explination or simple engineering discovery and the 'real deal' will expose what is what and in the end the 'zuki'-faithful will feel all the more stupid for furthering the ignorance just so that they can feel 'special' in thier own little lives... 

Fact of the matter is, enjoy what you want, but to further hyperbole and 'secrecy' does nothing more than to degrade yourself... If you don't care to open up the amps and post pics, great, but then don't try replying to every thread about the product pushing thier agenda... You stated you liked them, leave it at that, but to say they are 'special' has to be quantified and detailed to ascertain exactly 'why' they are so...


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

the true stupidity is, if you feel it's a hoax don't buy one and don't talk ****. lawry's!!!!!!!


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Zuki is the new eD cult...except EVERYONE is happy with their purchase


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> Now we're getting somewhere! Finally something I can relate to. I used to have a 2125 and I can tell you it was an excellent amp, very powerful and clean sounding. If the Zuki outdoes the 2125, it must be a VERY impressive amp. Is the amp he's referring to the $405 or the $604 amp?


i believe it's the $405. i can tell you from personal experience that the 4ch Eleets($405) get's my comps just as loud off 2 ch as the DD S4 did active off all 4ch's. but cleaner.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> the true stupidity is, if you feel it's a hoax don't buy one and don't talk ****. lawry's!!!!!!!


Whose talking ****? Do you consider wanting to know what all the secrect is about talking ****?


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> i believe it's the $405. i can tell you from personal experience that the 4ch Eleets($405) get's my comps just as loud off 2 ch as the DD S4 did active off all 4ch's. but cleaner.


What the power rating of the DD S4?


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> Whose talking ****? Do you consider wanting to know what all the secrect is about talking ****?


i'm not understanding what everyone thinks the secret is. but then again you have half a forum of what seems to be some pretty intelligent people going off specs and references and not taking anything else into consideration. personally, when i tried different gear off specs it sounded off everytime.

but all you lawry's will continue to post what you post and spend your money how you spend it. as i sit back everyday in my car and enjoy quality sounds. good luck.


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

Here's my outside perspective on this whole Zuki secrecy thing.

I see the fence, and I'm seeing what's being said on both sides. Those on the outside of the fence seem, in typical fashion, want to reveal something that isn't there; in order to show those on the inside of the fence that they are being duped.
Those on the inside, which seems atypical of the "bandwagon" types, don't seem to care what others are thinking. Sure, they promote the product, but not in the same way that you see snot nose kids in every forum boasting that one should use brand "X" sub, note: not a specific model, just the brand, because they hit supa hard or some other lame B.S.. 
Those on the inside do not care what makes the amp tick, just that it works, and that seems to me as mature a reason to buy something as any. No horsepower ratings to boost one's ego, nada.

If anything is "revealed", I don't believe that anyone owning a Zuki amp will give two ****s either way. Their stereo will sound just as enjoyable to them as it was before the "big secret" was let out of the bag.

Personally, I hope that the bottom cover to the amp is rigged to a dye pack full of something that will eat the traces right off the entire circuit board. I've never had a hankerin' to disassemble my truck's engine down to the main bearings just to see what what it is I am paying for. Quite frankly, and this comes with no loss of ego on my part, I wouldn't know what the hell to look for if I did take it apart. 

This whole thing is silly, and reminds me of those that felt cheated at the end of "Cast Away" because they never revealed what was in the package. I bet it was a Zuki prototype, built out of the same **** that was in Marcellus' briefcase from "Pulp Fiction".


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> What the power rating of the DD S4?


100x2 / 200x2 @ 4ohm


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

danssoslow said:


> I bet it was a Zuki prototype, built out of the same **** that was in Marcellus' briefcase from "Pulp Fiction".


Buwahahahahaaa....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

danssoslow said:


> Here's my outside perspective on this whole Zuki secrecy thing.
> 
> I see the fence, and I'm seeing what's being said on both sides. Those on the outside of the fence seem, in typical fashion, want to reveal something that isn't there; in order to show those on the inside of the fence that they are being duped.
> Those on the inside, which seems atypical of the "bandwagon" types, don't seem to care what others are thinking. Sure, they promote the product, but not in the same way that you see snot nose kids in every forum boasting that one should use brand "X" sub, note: not a specific model, just the brand, because they hit supa hard or some other lame B.S..
> ...


thank you sir.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Tune with amp, cables, headunit sonics...

or tune with my ears, a DSP, and proper planning to meet a desired goal.

Hmmmm...what to do what to do?

Besides distortion and noise, all other sonics go out the window the second you hit it with signal manipulation with a DSP (not limited to crossovers, EQ, gain...)

How much distortion can you hear before you notice a difference? Is that number larger or smaller than most amplifiers THD ratings? (Hint, if you aren't clipping it doesn't matter)


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

Will some give a$$hole his meds... He is rambling like a lunatic again... And I am completely serious...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> 100x2 / 200x2 @ 4ohm


????? Which is it, 100 X 2 or 200 X 2?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

Has anyone here ever used either of the 4 channel amps in 3 channel mode (2 channels in stereo, 2 bridged into one for a mono)? If so, did it provide sufficient power to the subs on the mono output?


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

man this thread blew up overnight..I didn't get a chance to read it because I have to go

1 quick question, is there anything in this thread that hasn't been said in the other 10k Zuki threads?


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

grampi said:


> Has anyone here ever used either of the 4 channel amps in 3 channel mode (2 channels in stereo, 2 bridged into one for a mono)? If so, did it provide sufficient power to the subs on the mono output?


i believe that pete36 used 2 channels bridged on one of his 16Ov2 was impressed with its output. And that was with the small 4ch.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Grampi which speakers do you have?


JL XR tweets

Illusion Audio LM-6 mids

(2) Sundown SD-1 10" (v1) subs


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> You must have missed in this thread where it was done.


Must have.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

fredridge said:


> 1 quick question, is there anything in this thread that hasn't been said in the other 10k Zuki threads?


No. It's the same whining that Zuki will not spoon feed everyone the specs.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> No. It's the same whining that Zuki will not spoon feed everyone the specs.


It's more like they can't be pried out of anyone's hands.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> What have you got for power now ?


Alpine MRV-F545


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

.....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Here are specs for sub
> 
> T/S Parameters:
> 
> ...


I know what specs for my subs are. How does that help?


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

grampi said:


> It's more like they can't be pried out of anyone's hands.


Sure it can. You just have to use:



grampi said:


> some cockamamy formula.


Otherwise known as Ohms Law. 

Hence why people need to be spoon fed. 

This used to be a forum about trying new stuff such as :gasp: home audio drivers in an automobile. Was everything that you needed to know about how that particular driver would resond in an automobile handed out on a silver platter or did people experiment and then write reviews of their experiences? Did people then take that information and decide whether the driver was right for them? 

Some people want to buy one amp and never experiment...and that is fine. Others like to try out new stuff.

I'm not telling anyone they should buy Zuki products. I do not own any and very likely never will. But I am open minded enough not to rule them out because I am not handed a birth sheet. You can get a birth sheet from Pyramid. Does that make it a great amp?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> Sure it can. You just have to use:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, so give me ALL the numbers and the formula and I'll figure it out myself.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> If you know them and I know them then we are getting closer to figuring out if you can do what you want.
> 
> Personally, I would buy the spl amp [pictured in this thread ]


Still not following you.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Zuki revealed!!!!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Grampi,
> 
> The amp will power your speakers !


Which amp, the $405 or the $604 amp? Will it power them as well, or not as well as the Alpine?


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

durwood said:


> The car audio world is a bunch of suckers. Everyone eats up "hey this amp is overated I'm getting more power than what I paid for."
> 
> Class A/B amps are old technology. They have been recycled and cloned to death since the 80's. What more are you going to get out of it? Technology has moved on, full range efficiency is the new kid on the block.
> 
> ...


I hear ya on that. This is really sad, as it seems more people on this forum are reverting back to an "Elitist" status with this amp. So it's a little different than the norm with unregulated output, maybe it's built like a tank and maybe it has the "gimmicke" cheater values we have all seen in the past, but in the end, its an AMP!

Some of these posters are starting to sound like the Home Hi-Fi so called "real audiophiles" and their non-scientifically supported $80K speakers or $400 cables, etc etc. At least for speakers you MIGHT be able to make some type of argument, but amps and cables is for clowns!

As far as all of the "recipe" analogies and fishing stories, Coke safe guards their recipe in volts and carefully thought out secrecy plans. Why? because there is no patent law on such things. If this amp is so "special" that it has some internal component that has not been used or used in some proprietary fashion, then it's not safe. People feeling "ethically" responsible for their secrecy are no different than all of the other people in society who partake in "elitist" organizations so they feel a sense of inflated ego.

In the end, whether its the fat chick next door, the ugly girl across the street or Pam Anderson...a hand job is a hand job is a hand job! One might be a little better at it, but it's not something that the others can't be taught/tweaked to do.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> alius123,
> 
> quote}
> Zuki Eleets (smaller one)
> ...


My QAA did 276 x 4. Are people really suggesting the output of the Zuki amp is anything near that figure? 

I've never seen Zuki claim that his amps have magical properties....rather a couple very zealous owners did. However, to be fair, the same type of enthusiasm has been expressed by people on here regarding other products, just not to the same degree as it has for Zuki stuff.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

CMR22 said:


> My QAA did 276 x 4. Are people really suggesting the output of the Zuki amp is anything near that figure?
> 
> I've never seen Zuki claim that his amps have magical properties....rather a couple very zealous owners did. However, to be fair, the same type of enthusiasm has been expressed by people on here regarding other products, just not to the same degree as it has for Zuki stuff.


SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

*whisper* The Masons make Zuki Amps.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> My QAA did 276 x 4. Are people really suggesting the output of the Zuki amp is anything near that figure?


I believe the term used was "leagues ahead." Hard to believe, isn't it?


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Yes, he posted what I copied, where is the confusion ?


I said "people". Does anyone other than him suggest the amp does 276 x 4 since that throws the current draw figures that Patrick gives out right in the toilet.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

This seems like a good place for this...

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0601/audiohell.htm


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
> 
> *whisper* The Masons make Zuki Amps.


:gives secret head knod:


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm now concerned this amp may put out TOO much power for my system.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Personally, take everything with a grain of salt [iodized ]


Then its time to shut down the Review forum. If we, the DIYMA family, cannot rely upon the reviews as being at least somewhat objective then what's the point of this forum? 

I can think for myself but I don't need reviews that cannot be trusted.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Hic (I don't like your new name  )

Keep in mind that I am recommending people keep an open mind about these amps. Telling us to take the reviews with a grain of salt doesn't help.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> I remember when you posted this
> CMR22
> DIYMA Enthusiast
> 
> ...


I don't recall what thread that is from, the context or what it has to do with this thread.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

Does anyone remember which thread had pics of these amps (not internal pics, just pics of the outside)?


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> A dollars hole is what sound quality represents to me


Yeah I know. I just like Hic better.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)




----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Zukified by Finebar has pics


Who??????


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> Fact
> 
> 1] The Eleets look great to me.
> 2] The Eleets sound great to me.
> 3} The Mono Eleets ie efn incredible to me.


Those all seem to be your _opinions_, not facts. 

However, opinions are all that is necessary for some people to buy something. They can be perfectly happy hearing other people say, "this amp is the best!" and then buying that amp. Others need facts to make their purchases, and will not buy something based on a few reviews. Whichever type of person you are will determine if you will ever buy a Zuki amp or not.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> Backwoods owned a few amps you may have heard of
> 
> Quote}
> Re: Zuki Audio Eleets 4ch Amplifier
> ...



This review is nonsense. My last amp sounded about as creamy as my last bowel movement! What the hell does that mean?!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

khail19 said:


> Those all seem to be your _opinions_, not facts.
> 
> However, opinions are all that is necessary for some people to buy something. They can be perfectly happy hearing other people say, "this amp is the best!" and then buying that amp. Others need facts to make their purchases, and will not buy something based on a few reviews. Whichever type of person you are will determine if you will ever buy a Zuki amp or not.


Forget it. I've tried repeatedly to get someone to post some useable numbers for these amps and have gotten nowhere. They won't even give me numbers to plug into a formula. Apparently these amps aren't about hard numbers.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

One thing that makes this amplifier special.

Every thread gets 10 - 20 pages.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

grampi said:


> I'm now concerned this amp may put out TOO much power for my system.


Honestly, how can one have to much power?!?! Excesive power is called "headroom" and is very useful since most CD's are not recorded at a 0db level. Unless I'm missing sarcasm here


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

thylantyr said:


> One thing that makes this amplifier special.
> 
> Every thread gets 10 - 20 pages.


Yeah , but 95% of those pages is people asking for numbers and and then being replied to with mostly subjective, useless garbage.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

grampi said:


> Yeah , but 95% of those pages is people asking for numbers and and then being replied to with mostly subjective, useless garbage.



I cannot understand how this is not resolvable?! Just measure the F'ing thing. Honestly, some common sense would help here. The four channel amp shows 2 30amp fuses. We know its not putting out 2000 watts with that type of protection. Who cares if its putting out 80 X 4 or 110 X4?! The audible difference is almost negligible. The stated figures of 5 and 10 watts are clearly fictitious. Whether its 60 or 80 or 100 per channel, it's enough to drive any speakers optimally, that would be used, omitting some subs.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Dillyyo said:


> I cannot understand how this is not resolvable?! Just measure the F'ing thing. Honestly, some common sense would help here. The four channel amp shows 2 30amp fuses. We know its not putting out 2000 watts with that type of protection. Who cares if its putting out 80 X 4 or 110 X4?! The audible difference is almost negligible. The stated figures of 5 and 10 watts are clearly fictitious. Whether its 60 or 80 or 100 per channel, it's enough to drive any speakers optimally, that would be used, omitting some subs.


Technically its not fictitious, its the output at an incredibly low THD percentage.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

Dillyyo said:


> I cannot understand how this is not resolvable?! Just measure the F'ing thing. Honestly, some common sense would help here. The four channel amp shows 2 30amp fuses. We know its not putting out 2000 watts with that type of protection. Who cares if its putting out 80 X 4 or 110 X4?! The audible difference is almost negligible. The stated figures of 5 and 10 watts are clearly fictitious. Whether its 60 or 80 or 100 per channel, it's enough to drive any speakers optimally, that would be used, omitting some subs.


So you'd think, except for the guy who wrote the review about the small 4 channel Zuki who said it was "leagues ahead" of another amp that supposedly put out 250 X 4, or everyone else whose said this amp is better than some other very well known ultra high end amps which quite certainly are rated at something much higher than 100 watts per channel. So the numbers just don't add up.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

jj_diamond said:


> it makes me laugh how some of you can sit here all day and talk crap and hate on something you've never heard yet everyone that actually owns one is beyond satisfied with their purchase. lawry's!!!!!
> 
> and some of you mental midgets also make fun of Patrick's "slime" covered reference CD's with "green sharpie" on them. ya'll really don't have a clue, do you??
> 
> by the way John, the Audionutz reference CD's are a nice add to any collection. but as far as SQ goes, they get spanked by Patrick's CD's IMO.


Who's hating? I see a lot of legit questions....as there has been whenever Zuki amps come up. The only thing yet to be seen in these treads is Zuki himself. Even if someone did talk "crap" about your product, are you just going to ignore it?

I have a clue! Bought it from a$$hole. Great deal on clues, that guy has. 

That's nice. Spankin' SQ, I like it! I still need to get my Zuki CD here one of these days. The guy really seems to know his stuff.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> it is all in the build quality.


And you verified that how, exactly, if you haven't had a peek inside?


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> ????? Which is it, 100 X 2 or 200 X 2?


http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/amp/amp.asp?series=S



grampi said:


> Has anyone here ever used either of the 4 channel amps in 3 channel mode (2 channels in stereo, 2 bridged into one for a mono)? If so, did it provide sufficient power to the subs on the mono output?


dynaudio 240mkII = 2 channels
1 IDQ10v2 d4(wired series) = 2 channels bridged


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

kevin, leave them alone. they're just haters to the fullest.  they assume everything, take what you say out of context and deny any truth to anything without specs.

lawry's!

*HATERS*
A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.

Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock somelse down a notch.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Look if you're not buying , why do you care ?
> 
> Go buy an amp you can afford that will give you what you want, ratings , pictures, whatever !!


Some may be looking to buy.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

grampi said:


> Some may be looking to buy.


then talk only to those who have one and talk to Patrick. but be patient. he is only one person.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

grampi said:


> So you'd think, except for the guy who wrote the review about the small 4 channel Zuki who said it was "leagues ahead" of another amp that supposedly put out 250 X 4, or everyone else whose said this amp is better than some other very well known ultra high end amps which quite certainly are rated at something much higher than 100 watts per channel. So the numbers just don't add up.


But you are omitting one important fact. Home audio and car audio "elitist" are usually fully of subjective crap. I have read of few of the in-depth reviews and there were many things that told me they were full of placebo BS. Can you imagine if we ran clinical drug trials the same way?! There is a reason we don't and it's due to human nature.

I would not be surprised if someone claimed they saw the virgin Mary when they opened up the amp.


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

jj_diamond said:


> then talk only to those who have one and talk to Patrick. but be patient. he is only one person.


I have been talking to those who have these amps, trouble is I'm not getting much info about them. Haven't tried Patrick yet.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> If you're keeping track , would you show me where John Yi posted in the threads about his amps and line drivers ?


Nope, not keeping track. Too hard to sort through all your nonsense. BTW, as Dbphelps suggested, it does seem your meds are waring down. Maybe take a break for a bit and re-dope???


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Can someone please tell me how "Zuki" actually designed these amps?! i don't know th gentleman and won't pass any judgment on his knowledge of the matter, but after reviewing some of his past history posts on Carsound, he either had to take a crash course in Electrical Engineering or fronting for someone.

Ex Post he submitted abut 3 years ago 

if i need 3 volts a/c

why can't i use 3 volts dc ?

like 2 d cell batteries ?


Now, there years later, not only does he design amps, but supposedly amps that exceed what many other multi million dollar amp companies are trying to produce. Must suck to think all of those Ph D's at JBL, Zapco, Jl, Infinity etc can come close to producing an amp with such NIRVANA values has this one. 

I wonder if they would know the answer to the above question?!


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> I never said I have not opened my amplifiers !
> 
> Linear Powers
> Zed's
> ...


I see a Zuki isn't on that list. How can you even bring build quality into the discussion when you haven't popped the top on the Zuki? It could be held together with arming wire, bubble gum and twist ties.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> Butt that does not change anything [ God , No God ] Faith is what you need to believe in something, that is all!


One for the money, two for the show....


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> Look if you're not buying , why do you care ?
> 
> Go buy an amp you can afford that will give you what you want, ratings , pictures, whatever !!


Because if we knew what we were getting we might actually buy them!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

jj_diamond said:


> then talk only to those who have one and talk to Patrick. but be patient. he is only one person.


I'm sorry, but I'm not going through an Q&A session to deem if I'm worthy enough to buy one of his amps. The gov't trusts me with top secret munitions items, I'm sure I can handle his "engineering marvel."


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

thylantyr said:


> One thing that makes this amplifier special.
> 
> Every thread gets 10 - 20 pages.


LOL. It's the mystery...it's working.

I've got a valid question for everyone,

Would you buy from a big name like ID, JL, Arc, Zapco...etc etc if they couldn't tell you a simple specification when you asked them? I.E. would you trust them to give you something for your money you would feel comfortable about?

How is the Zuki amp any different?

Either he doesn't know, or he is selling mystery and feeding on you guys, or he believes specs don't mean anything or he doesn't trust specs. Either way, would you still buy it?

It's makes it hard to figure out how many to but when you don't know how to plan your system out. Or you could just let the very person taking your money tell you how many to buy. Or you can buy on faith.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I know I wouldn't.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> If I may be allowed...[ Sir, you do not have to buy one of these amplifiers  ].
> 
> Whatever floats your boat would be my suggestion  if you feel offended by this ,I don't know what more can be said, seriously.
> 
> ...



So you're saying the only way you'll be honest with me is if I PAY for your honesty? Pretty hypocritical for a guy that says it's against his ethics to show the internals. Not to mention, if I bought one, what would I need you and your 'forthrightness" for???


----------



## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> So you're saying the only way you'll be honest with me is if I PAY for your honesty? Pretty hypocritical for a guy that says it's against his ethics to show the internals. Not to mention, if I bought one, what woudl I need you and your 'forthrightness" for???


Are we still having a discussion? I can't take my eyes off your avitar!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

durwood said:


> Or you could just let the very person taking your money tell you how many to buy. Or you can buy on faith.


And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home....


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

durwood said:


> LOL. It's the mystery...it's working.
> 
> I've got a valid question for everyone,
> 
> ...



Since you mentioned ID specifically, how is this person wanting to know the T/S specs for the XS69 different than what Zuki is doing? Here he is told that he doesn't need the information, that he should by a woofer tester and figure it out himself, and T/S specs and response curves are not given out to the public:



> What do you need the T/S parameters for?





> Midbass driver X-max for one. Sensitivity, etc...





> Woofer tester from PE FTW. It gives you the T/S parameters in about 30 seconds, and it's super easy to use. I tested on some old Fostex 10's and got some pretty neat results. Tip: try to test the speakers in a really open area, preferably outside to minimize room interference.





> I wont do business with companies that dont have all their specs/contact info on their site
> 
> just plain dumb in this very competitive market





> You really think the general public gives a crap about T/S parameters and what they mean?
> 
> No.





> Simple questions like XMAX I can answer quickly and easily, while requests for TS parameters and response curves on drivers that this data is not normally publicly supplied are not difficult, they can be time consuming.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28643


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

this thread has gone nuts. I cant believe the responses in the last day.


I am sure what Patrick is trying to say is that there is no way to know for sure what it will output (rms watt wise) but that he is sure that it will output at least 5 watts rms per channel to basically any normal driver with any normal (or even close to normal) input signal. 

Buy them or dont buy them, just dont buy it just because you need 5 watts/channel or because you need 100/channel.

they are beautiful amps that I would love to run, but am now less interested over the delays and questions while trying to purchase.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

you should all go buy one of these and call it a day. no more upgrades needed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-NEW-FUSION...ryZ39732QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

I don't think Patrick is Catholic... probably more likely to see Elvis 



Dillyyo said:


> I would not be surprised if someone claimed they saw the virgin Mary when they opened up the amp.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

Dillyyo said:


> Can someone please tell me how "Zuki" actually designed these amps?! i don't know th gentleman *and won't pass any judgment on his knowledge of the matter*, but after reviewing some of his past history posts on Carsound, he either had to take a crash course in Electrical Engineering or fronting for someone.
> 
> Ex Post he submitted abut 3 years ago
> 
> ...


That definitely reads like judgment.

There was a time and age when Chip Foose didn't know a wrench from a hole in the ground. Now he's selling cars for 100's of thousands of dollars. How dare he! What makes him think that, against GM's R&D staff, decades of years in the automotive industry, and the billions of dollars they have, that he could sell a car for 3 to 4 times what a Vette costs? 


And grampi, you honestly believe that you can validate all of your skepticism and ramblings by saying that potential buyers need to know the specs; yet have not attempted to contact the man that makes them?!?

That's like standing out in front of McDonald's, asking everyone that leaves "how's the burgers taste, how's the burgers taste?"; and claiming bad McDonald's customer service because the patrons told you to either "buy your own burger" or "get the hell away from me"... 

I'll give it to you, alot of the info given doesn't mean a damn to most people around here; but what does that have to do with Zuki itself? Those that have bought from him have honored his wishes; nothing more, nothing less. Lest you forget though; that it is a *privilege* to be able to come here and discuss with others the knowledge and experience with equipment we have yet to use ourselves, not a *right*. The answers are most definitely out there, and you could be doing yourself the favor of bypassing all of this B.S. and buying an amp yourself and testing it. As fanatical as the owners of these amps are, I'm sure you will have no problems at all selling the amp and getting every bit of your money back. I do recommend selling the amp first before revealing the Pyramid circuit board and the right-out-of-the-Radio-Shack-parts-drawer components being used.

I don't guess that anyone here complaining is at all a billiards player? Noone's reinvented the pool cue; but damn if they don't all feel different. I don't see anyone willing to dissect a Balabushka or Gina to validate its cost or feel.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> What kind of amps do you want to buy, Durwood?
> 
> I have some brand new amps [ 2.2 HV , Memphis mch1300 , US Amp 50 HC , PPI 1002 ]
> 
> see anything that you know the specs on that interests you ?


what are the specs on price for the mch1300.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> 2.2 HV


How much?


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

If you don't like the methods you can take your money elsewhere. I considered the Zuki Eleets for my new install. Trying to plan an active front stage with 8 ohm tweeters, and 4 ohm mids? Will 2 channels of the smaller Eleet bridged run a single 500 watt subwoofer, dual 350 watt, 2 ohm load or 4 ohm load? I could not even plan the space for my install, without trading phone calls or emails, because not even the dimensions are listed on the Zuki website. You could probably plan it safe and get a small 4 channel Eleet, the larger 4 channel Eleet, and the Mono monster and work your system around the available power and channels. Once everything is measured for the install and all the drivers are hooked up you can evaluate whether you should have bought 2 of the smaller or 2 of the bigger or 8 of the mono's. Personally I went with the Arc Audio SE series. Much easier to know what you are working with. Not hatin' on Patrick or the Zuki products just not my way of spending my $. Just my .02 cents.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

cajunner said:


> and people have already dissected Stradivarius violins, they have torn apart Balabushka's, they have mechanically separated most all of the things people have put together to deduce the secrets, or non-secrets. That's a founding principle of this place, to lay waste to the chaff and find the kernel of truth.


Who is "they"? If you are referring to those that are builders wanting to get some insight on the qualities of the parts they are dissecting to enhance the their own products, sure; it's been done. 
Do you honestly believe that there are enthusiasts that have taken these things apart to justify its usage? HELLS NO! It's hard to play with a cue that has been cut in half or play a violin that has been taken apart. And I'll put good money down that noone has bought two of these thing so that they can have one to use and one to dissect.

And what is so "bad business practice" about not wanting the consumer to open the amp up? Quite a few amps I've owned had a "warranty voided" sticker on the bottom of the amp. Are you saying that Rockford is trying to hide something? Are they practicing bad business putting that sticker on their amps? 
The RE MT came out without specs, was RE in the wrong? Were they practicing bad business by not supplying TS parameters for the MT? 
Should Chad Kuypers have been put up on charges of practicing bad buisness when refusing to give out the xmax spec on the Havoc? 
From what I hear, Tang Band's advertised specs have been known to be way off, should we put the word out that we as conscious consumers should not buy Tang Band products anymore?

This is silly.


----------



## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> CA90SS thank you for the reply, I'm not selling
> Dejo thank you for reply, I'm not selling


Now you are just being confrontational, more so than usual. Why would you post all those amps and ask several members if they are interested, just to come back and say they aren't for sale?

You can't possibly think anyone will take you seriously when you act like that. And maybe you don't care, you just post random stuff to stir the pot and watch the show. If you would at least learn to use the quote feature properly, maybe some sense could be made from your posts.


----------



## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

In 21 pages of briskly read replies, I have arrived at two conclusions:

1) a$$hole somehow is first in line for a zuki IPO.

2) a$$hole robbed a Power Distribution van and has been chugging Red Bulls laced with speeders..

Can't wait to see the gut shots and perhaps somebody will send them to someone that is respected unilaterally for a breakdown. Steven Mantz, anyone?


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

khail19 said:


> Now you are just being confrontational, more so than usual. Why would you post all those amps and ask several members if they are interested, just to come back and say they aren't for sale?
> 
> You can't possibly think anyone will take you seriously when you act like that. And maybe you don't care, you just post random stuff to stir the pot and watch the show. If you would at least learn to use the quote feature properly, maybe some sense could be made from your posts.


after I posted I realized that he was asking if we wanted to know the specs of these amps


----------



## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

khail19 said:


> Now you are just being confrontational, more so than usual. Why would you post all those amps and ask several members if they are interested, just to come back and say they aren't for sale?
> 
> You can't possibly think anyone will take you seriously when you act like that. And maybe you don't care, you just post random stuff to stir the pot and watch the show. If you would at least learn to use the quote feature properly, maybe some sense could be made from your posts.


x2

Thank you!


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

ah geez, there are REAL reasons there hasn't beein internal pics posted of the amps.

Another thing, Pat doesn't do this full time, he wants to keep it as a side business. In other words, he doesn't want to get to the level of sales that JL and Alpine have, or even Zapco. 

He enjoys helping out people, and dealing with his customers. He loves to talk about audio, and as far as I can tell, is his main hobby.

He did not reinvent the wheel with this amplifier. It is a straightforward solid state class AB amp. 

Incredibly similar to a couple other VERY HIGHLY REGARDED amplifiers but at a 1/4 of the price.

Guys, I gushed overboard on purpose on these amps, and have posted MANY times stating as such, and giving an explanation as to why. But for those who have not pulled the trigger on trying some, I am sorry, but you have been missing out on a steal.

Lot's of people on this forum and others, know the complete story, and several I'm sure, also know the TRUE reason pics have not been posted of the internals.

And yes, from a few, I have heard that pictures will be posted very shortly, and Pat is not going to come out and condemn someone for it afaik, they will just simply lose their warranty. Same as goes for ALOT of manufacturers.

There is nothing magical about these amps. There is no voodoo, but the quality for the price is currently unmatched.

But hey, this is also a diy forum, where people are willing to give up quality for price, so they are being questioned even more.

And who's to say, some of us who may know the full story, aren't telling because we enjoy watching all the intrigue..


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

backwoods said:


> ah geez, there are REAL reasons there hasn't beein internal pics posted of the amps.


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

My tv took a crap yesterday so this thread has been my source of entertainment.

But well said.

And I haven't said much and not to be mean but A$$HOLE... stop posting please. 

you have shared what you think, let the amps speak for themselves now.




backwoods said:


> And who's to say, some of us who may know the full story, aren't telling because we enjoy watching all the intrigue..


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

....


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

patent office does take all kinds, it also take a little bit of money.

Doubt a guy who sells or wants to sell as few as zuki wants to put up that much dough...

My guess is, Zuki doesn't have a real high profit margin on these amps.


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

cajunner said:


> RE, Chad, the rest never asked their customers not to cut open their product and show what made them special, did they? Once you get it in your head that you sold the product for money, you have released it into the world, and putting some kind of spin on disclosing the innards based on that is not a part of the bargain.
> 
> If there was something in need of protection, the patent office takes all kinds.


And THAT is my big point here; not to justify Zuki amps or Pat's wishes, but to say if the one must know something, seek the answers. Buy the amp and take the cover off, don't try to talk someone with the amp into doing it for you; especially people that have refused time and time again to do it. There is a clear and undeniable way around all of this.

The BIGGEST kicker of this entire thread, the OP is about someone doing this very thing. It's going to be done. There will be questions answered. The whole world will see what one man has tried to hide. Yet, in all 22 pages of this thread, that first post has been lost. The time for all of this is "do it! no! do it! no!" is done. I'm am absolutely baffled that there is so many people wanting to see the guts of this amp, yet noone has pulled the trigger until now.

I believe that Jack Johnson would have kicked the living S*&t out of Mike Tyson in his prime. This would be a much more intriguing debate than a damn amp.


BTW, let's talk about cues.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

danssoslow said:


> That definitely reads like judgment.
> 
> There was a time and age when Chip Foose didn't know a wrench from a hole in the ground. Now he's selling cars for 100's of thousands of dollars. How dare he! What makes him think that, against GM's R&D staff, decades of years in the automotive industry, and the billions of dollars they have, that he could sell a car for 3 to 4 times what a Vette costs?
> 
> ...




See, where your analogy with Foose falls flat on it's face is Foose designs cars artistic expression, not the engineering aspect. Thats would require a good amount of on hands experience or technical expertise. Some people choose to pay a million dollars for petrified dung, but another man might not...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Now if Zuki came and designed an exterior for an amp, maybe even a little thermodynamics and design heat dissipation apparatus, then I could see the comparative analogy. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that he designed the gust of the amplifier. That means proper implementation of all electrical components do produce what, from the tones of the owners, is something that has been accomplished by not many in this hundreds of millions of dollars industry Highly unlikely and all the more proven with such a basic physics question that I present from the Carsound forum. Unless of course it was designed in conjunction with an experienced designer or it was copied from an existing product. I tend to believe one of these than the former. 

Everyone knows, less said and the more mystique that will build. It's less said propaganda and has been brilliantly used here and for thousands of years. Believe the hype if you''d like, but I'm sure the amp is no better than a Zapco. And IMHO, Zapco is probably better because of the quality and the flexibility that it provides you with its native components


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

This "they're just a bunch of haters" is complete and utter crap. I'll put money down that everyone of us that is asking questions about the specs are doing so because we actually A) want information as this is what this board is about and B) would like to see what makes them so great and a possible choice for purchase. I know I'm going to buy 3 amps this spring all of which are in the same price range as the Zuki's, but I won't be grabbing Zuki's since it's a complete crap shoot as to what I'm getting. I would be all about the Zuki's if they had some numbers attached to them...AT ALL.


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

Well it is obvious what the deal with 'Zuki' amps really are, and it boils down to one of the following:

a) They are really cheap amps, made with a design that anyone can purchase from overseas and he is worried that it will get out and end his 'Zuki' amp business... 

b) They are exactly the same as any number of other major amps out there, built by the same manufacturer as those amps, but with his 'Zuki' nameplate on them in his specific heatsinks... Now they may or may not be a good amp, and they may be US made, or even made overseas, but there is the possibility that once it is out which amp he is rebranding either the manufacturer will stop making them for him, or there *could* be potential flash from this from the major brand that is selling these amps...

Either way, there is really nothing else besides those two scenarios (and yes many permutations of each with many little details, but still the general idea holds true)...

I will just laugh when it really gets out... For idjits like a$$hole I really hope it is the former, but in reality it really doesn't matter...

Honestly, this 'marketing ploy' is just that, and as any thinly veiled 'ruse' it will be up-ended and done with...

The fact that Patrick doesn't post in any of these threads is proof of his 'nervous' nature about this and as it was pointed out, if he in fact made such stupid posts only a few years ago, it is obvious he is a marketer, not a manufacturer... You can be almost certain he had very little, if anything, to do with the electronic aspect of his 'products' and most likely is laughing all the way to the bank about how people buy into his BS...

He doesn't want to sell more amps because the truth would get out quicker, he wants to sell to those that can be duped, thus his 'interrogation' of the buyer... It is easy to have it as 'everyone that owns one is happy' when you chose the lemmings of the group to sell to... And that is all it comes down to, and he is a marketer trying to control a market and make some money and he knows he could never make it selling tons of amps because he would then have to support them... This way he gets to sell a few at a much higher mark-up, gets more for each, figures since he 'qualifies' the buyer he won't have to do much support since they aren't you average schmo that doesn't know how to install and amp, and he keeps 'building' his company off the fools...

And honestly, if you like his product, good for you, just liek those that buy Zapco, Brax, Helix, JL, RF, etc... Nice products, do what they are supposed to, and amplify a signal... Are they 'worth' what they are being sold for? Only the consumer that ponies up the cash can decide that...

The difference here is that he is trying to sell to * THIS * distinct group of people, and I mean directly, and with all the croanies pushing his wares he thinks he has it good... Key point is that * THIS * group tends to see through most of this BS and are more willing to buy a 'budget' amp that has the same exact internals as a Arc Audio, or Zapco, for a fraction of the price since we know the quality is still there regardless of the name...

ALL HAIL AMPGUTS!!! It has been a treasure of a site that has exposed many a name brands folly in trying to take advantage of consumers as a whole... And 'Zuki' has done nothing to prove they are any different, and THAT, my friends, is the key point of this discussion... Are they, or are they not, a good design... And current owners praising and exclaming this, that, or the other thing are not partial enough to 'prove' to the masses that what they are doing is more than just a bought opinion...

Hell, if I owned one I would say F*CK the warranty, post the internals and shut everyone up about it... Hell how many times has a new amp gone out after being hooked up for over a month and getting daily use... Personally only had 1 amp ever go out and that was on initial startup and that is with well over 200 amps of all makes/manufacturers being installed over the past 20+ years... If it is a good product, well engineered, and everything everyone says it is, why not pop the cover, as it should be built well enough that a warranty isn't even needed, right?

Oh, I forget... He only sells to the guillible and weak-minded, so his 'Zuki'-mindmeld takes hold enough to control those he sells to... Totally forgot about that...


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

What makes me laugh more and more is that this board was all about learning things in the mobile audio arena, be it information from specs, information on installs or just the difference between home audio and the car audio cousin. Now it's becoming more and more like caraudio.com or caraudioforum.com where it's less about learning about things and curiosity and more about crap reviews and people posting pointless garbage comments like Hic that you can't even read, much less understand the point of. "Zuki amps are the best ever made blah blah blah." ok...why? "BECAUSE I SAID SO AND YOU ASKING THAT QUESTION MEANS YOU ARE A HATER!!!!!!" umm...no, it means I would just like to understand why. "YOU DO NOT NEED TO UNDERSTAND IT JUST THAT IT DOES." umm, this isn't the Force here Yoda "SHUTUP HATER".

(caps are because the supporters get so pissed for asking simple standard questions ).


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

This thread is sofa king we todd id.

I wanted to boost my post count too but I'm not as zealous as some dudes in here. Time to go have a life .. you know it's SATURDAY?


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

The Energizer thread, it keeps going and going and going..............


----------



## BaMaDuDe87 (Oct 31, 2006)

danssoslow said:


> That's like standing out in front of McDonald's, asking everyone that leaves "how's the burgers taste, how's the burgers taste?"; and claiming bad McDonald's customer service because the patrons told you to either "buy your own burger" or "get the hell away from me"...


I think it would be more like everyone walking out of McDonalds saying how awsome their burger was, then he asks what was on it that made it so good, and then they told him to get the hell away.

Im not takin sides here, as I know I wont be buying zuki amp, but if it sounds good to the owners of them then more power to them. If your about the specs leave them alone, if your willing to step out on a ledge and take a leap of faith then by all means go ahead.

I dont see any reason for arguement here?


----------



## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

Iv heard them they sounded great to me..
Power wise.. it pushed the speakers real well..
the Zuki's to me are like a Spyker Car..
Super Detailed & rare...
They get the job done very nice like..


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

dBhelps, they aren't a generic cheap amp from a Chinese parts catalog.


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

winslow, you know that statement is meaningless unless you have something to back it up with


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

The reason the pics have not been posted is LISTED on this page. 

And no, it's not because he ripped someone off, and that manufacturer will sue them.

Even IF he did copy someone's design, I'm POSITIVE the manufacturer isn't going to bother with a guy who sells as few as he did. Especially when there are larger manufacturers out there who sell ALOT more, who have copied amp designs and never been sued for it.

Like winslow said, these aren't generic amps, and they definitly aren't cheapo, simple boards like many amps out there. There is definitly some design to them.



I love speaking in generalities and riddles...


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> dBhelps, they aren't a generic cheap amp from a Chinese parts catalog.


So what are they? I mean, you have to order it from some catalog, right? So now that we have determined what they are not (a cheap chinese amp, rated with according to most established rating conventions, easy to find, etc.), what does that prove? 

Juan


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I have a really good idea about a couple of the amps.

I'm not saying anything b/c it's not my place to say something.

But cheap design they are not.


----------



## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

shoulda just dipped the whole thing in potting compound and said "go ahead, open it up as much as you want !!" LOL


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

vactor said:


> shoulda just dipped the whole thing in potting compound and said "go ahead, open it up as much as you want !!" LOL


But, you are forgetting, it would have taken some actual *WORK* to do jsut that.. He isn't an engineer, he isn't a designer, he is a MARKETER, he buys something he told someone to put his name on... That's all...


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

What's wrong with that?


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> What's wrong with that?


Never said there was anything wrong with it, jsut pointing out the obvious...  

Actually, many call him a designer, an electrical engineer (by saying he designed the amps the way they are), or some sort of audio genius... My whole point is he is a marketing schmuck... Nothing more....

One that has done a job (not even a good one at that) of creating 'spin' about his product with a given marketing style, that being 'mystery'...

I had snake oil salesman, and he is just that... Regardless of the product or how good it is, his marketing is just hyperbole and stupidity... Nothing will change that...

It just pisses me off when I see lemmings trying to 'lead the way' in generalized stupidity... If it is a good product, sell it as such, not with this 'Zuki'-minion stupidity...


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

None of the 'they are/are not' statements mean jack w/o any proof. I think that's the main problem .. a lot of owners, non-owners, whoever all say it's<insert detail here> but either way there is no proof of anything.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It's not a good job? Why are you still so concerned about it then?

I've never seen Zuki call himself an engineer or a designer. I know he is a lover of music though.



dbphelps said:


> Never said there was anything wrong with it, jsut pointing out the obvious...
> 
> Actually, many call him a designer, an electrical engineer (by saying he designed the amps the way they are), or some sort of audio genius... My whole point is he is a marketing schmuck... Nothing more....
> 
> ...


----------



## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

This thread = teh funnAy !


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

backwoods said:


> Another thing, Pat doesn't do this full time, he wants to keep it as a side business. In other words, he doesn't want to get to the level of sales that JL and Alpine have, or even Zapco.
> 
> He enjoys helping out people, and dealing with his customers. He loves to talk about audio, and as far as I can tell, is his main hobby.
> 
> ...


See now that's a level headed set of comments and I don't mind that as part of the review. I can digg that, it's not overbearing.


----------



## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

where are the pics and test results?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Serious question for those that have purchased his amps:

Did Zuki tell you how the amps will sound? 

Did he tell you what to listen for? 

Did he make specific claims about his amps in the sonics department? (Ex "sonic nirvana"). 

*Does he do any of this unsolicited? *


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> Serious question for those that have purchased his amps:
> 
> Did Zuki tell you how the amps will sound?
> 
> ...


I just placed a very large bet at the Bellagio on the answers to your questions.


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> I have a really good idea about a couple of the amps.
> 
> I'm not saying anything b/c it's not my place to say something.
> 
> But cheap design they are not.


Really good idea about what? Who is making them? What the design is based off of? 

Seriously, half this thread is like the "Who is on first" bit. It's a class AB amp, that I would bet was ordered from an amplifier supplier (china or otherwise) using the chinese menu method. Maybe the guy checked off every upgrade in the book (like ordering a $900 base laptop that turns into a $2000 laptop after you add all the upgrades), but how much can you really do with amplifier design? I mean, Linear Power is supposed to be the cat's meow and they went under. Phoenix Gold's earlier stuff was pretty damn solid, but they couldn't make money doing it the way they did.

I'm not sure why everyone is so hung up on seeing the inside. I mean, do people look at the inside of a Linear Power amp and say "wow, that is some messy board layout going on' (like I do)? 

Juan


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

CMR22 said:


> I just placed a very large bet at the Bellagio on the answers to your questions.


You mean on how many will honestly answer them?? Or if the congregation is meme-conditioned prior to handing over their cash?


----------



## CobraVin (Jul 31, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> I just placed a very large bet at the Bellagio on the answers to your questions.


is it just cause im tired or is everyone speaking in riddles, dropping little hints

ok ill play

did you play craps by the way


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> You mean on how many will honestly answer them?? Or if the congregation is meme-conditioned prior to handing over their cash?


I am hoping that if anything comes from this mess is that honesty will prevail regarding your question. I know my answer from my emails with him.


----------



## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> Serious question for those that have purchased his amps:
> 
> Did Zuki tell you how the amps will sound?
> 
> ...


----------



## phatredpt (Feb 22, 2006)

As a casual bystander having just wasted a decent amount of time cruising the postings in this thread ( and only seeing a small percentage of posts that are calm and informed) the only question that really seems important in my mind is....

Are they worth what the man is getting for them?

Beyond that the rest is just "drama"


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

finebar4 said:


> FoxPro5 said:
> 
> 
> > Serious question for those that have purchased his amps:
> ...


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

OldOneEye said:


> Really good idea about what? Who is making them? What the design is based off of?
> 
> Seriously, half this thread is like the "Who is on first" bit. It's a class AB amp, that I would bet was ordered from an amplifier supplier (china or otherwise) using the chinese menu method. Maybe the guy checked off every upgrade in the book (like ordering a $900 base laptop that turns into a $2000 laptop after you add all the upgrades), but how much can you really do with amplifier design? I mean, Linear Power is supposed to be the cat's meow and they went under. Phoenix Gold's earlier stuff was pretty damn solid, but they couldn't make money doing it the way they did.
> 
> ...


I don't see anything wrong with the chinese menu method. We ship them all our raw materials now, we supplied them with the standard class a/b designs from 20+ years ago (because nothing has really changed besides obsolete parts), and they build at a fraction of the cost with hopefully good QC. The reliable ones have good QC control and the important parts were not skimped (good thermal design).

Only improvements we should ask for are in power supply development. Let's focus on power supply improvements for dynamic power and efficiency. Let's all say it together- Class D/H/G please.


----------



## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> finebar4 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, and as usual finebar, you've always been forthright with info when this comes up.
> ...


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You mean like how Rockford has? They have had the D/B amps for what, 7 years?



durwood said:


> Let's all say it together- Class D/H/G please.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Zuki stuffs little bitty itty bitty Masons in his amps and they generate current through electromagnetic exercise bikes that they ride.


----------



## Duckman (Aug 5, 2007)

There are ALWAYS two things you can count on in a Zuki thread:

1)...A-hole gets another 500 on his post count

AND 

2)...Some of the best quotes you will ever hear...by far this is the best one so far.



Dillyyo said:


> This review is nonsense. My last amp sounded about as creamy as my last bowel movement! What the hell does that mean?!


EDITED FOR PROPER CREDIT...Dillyyo


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> finebar4 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, and as usual finebar, you've always been forthright with info when this comes up.
> ...


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

Dillyyo said:


> Believe the hype if you''d like, but I'm sure the amp is no better than a Zapco. And IMHO, Zapco is probably better because of the quality and the flexibility that it provides you with its native components


Is there anything that can be said to a person, that has already formed an opinion of something that he knows absolutely nothing about, that could sway his decision? If you like flexibility, flexibility Zukis don't have, then why are you worried about any of this. No hype here buddy, I'm the one trying to get everyone to look away.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> FoxPro5 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. Nothing like instant albums on Rhapsody
> ...


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> You mean like how Rockford has? They have had the D/B amps for what, 7 years?


Nah, that's only for sub useage.  

Sorry, my mistake--full range class D/H/G.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

phatredpt said:


> As a casual bystander having just wasted a decent amount of time cruising the postings in this thread ( and only seeing a small percentage of posts that are calm and informed) the only question that really seems important in my mind is....
> 
> Are they worth what the man is getting for them?
> 
> Beyond that the rest is just "drama"


Well, your "main point" is actually pointless, because it's subjective. Do you actually think that some home audiophiles don't believe and justify there is a worth to their $80K speakers?! Or their $400 wires?! Point is, without numbers, it's hard to justify or determine this "worth". Any good amp does just that, amplify. No coloration, inducement of sonic signatures yada yada yada. Its hard to put a worth on something that is strictly only measured by hard scientific variables. Now if you asked this same question about transducers, you could have a cordial debate as what you hear through them is not limited strictly by scientific variables.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Duckman said:


> There are ALWAYS two things you can count on in a Zuki thread:
> 
> 1)...A-hole gets another 500 on his post count
> 
> ...


Thanks! These amp type threads really churn up that bowel activity!


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

danssoslow said:


> Is there anything that can be said to a person, that has already formed an opinion of something that he knows absolutely nothing about, that could sway his decision? If you like flexibility, flexibility Zukis don't have, then why are you worried about any of this. No hype here buddy, I'm the one trying to get everyone to look away.


i don't know if I meant that as it seem intended but I could care less about this amp. I only get urked because it seems another "elitist" form of crud is evolving right before the DIY eyes. Sad to see so many sucker sheep get lead into the same monotonous slaughterhouse. After all of these years away, I guess some things just never change!


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

there is a term here I am not really understanding... I have heard it used a number of times to describe Zuki owners....

Sheep - I thought that was usually a euphemism used to describe someone who is a follower, not bright and does what other people tell them.... really no ability to make a personal choice

Here is where I am not understanding.... if I won a Zuki amp I am a sheep, I have been duped, cheated and hornswaggled by a snake oil salesman.

The problem is Zuki owners are the ones out there on the edge, trying something different, not waiting for all the "specs" but experimenting themselves..... I guess that makes any Zuki owner a sheep. 

I guess what I really need to know is how do I not become a sheep and become like all you intelligent people who need the specs before you try, can insult people and call them names, make outlandish assumptions with out any personal experience....maybe I can become intelligent on not see the irony in that.

Maybe then I wouldn't be a sheep..


----------



## phatredpt (Feb 22, 2006)

Dillyyo said:


> Well, your "main point" is actually pointless, because it's subjective. Do you actually think that some home audiophiles don't believe and justify there is a worth to their $80K speakers?! Or their $400 wires?! Point is, without numbers, it's hard to justify or determine this "worth". Any good amp does just that, amplify. No coloration, inducement of sonic signatures yada yada yada. Its hard to put a worth on something that is strictly only measured by hard scientific variables. Now if you asked this same question about transducers, you could have a cordial debate as what you hear through them is not limited strictly by scientific variables.


Actually we appear to agree...  
That is what I was getting at... post some basic real numbers, pics of decent design and components and couple that with the users reviews to add merit and we can then determine it's rough worth (within reason).
The "debate" is what is purely subjective at this point.


----------



## phatredpt (Feb 22, 2006)

fredridge said:


> there is a term here I am not really understanding... I have heard it used a number of times to describe Zuki owners....
> 
> Sheep - I thought that was usually a euphemism used to describe someone who is a follower, not bright and does what other people tell them.... really no ability to make a personal choice
> 
> ...


Good point!  

Sheep buy shiny things at (big box of your choice) because of full page glossy ads in (magazine of your choice) in my opinion...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

http://www.zukiaudio.com/

$3,000.00 and 110 watts of amps


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

I feel that the owner of Zuki's products are brave pioneers in the car audio realm. The analogy of "sheep" just doesn't fit. To be willing to purchase a product based solely on the sellers recommendations by phone or email is a very new concept to me personally. If I was setting up a passive 2-way with a single sub and could try the small Zuki 4 channel for $405 than maybe. To do an active system with multiple sub's and multiple amps?


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

phatredpt said:


> Good point!
> 
> Sheep buy shiny things at (big box of your choice) because of full page glossy ads in (magazine of your choice) in my opinion...


I thought sheep were people who didn't understand what they are getting, but decided to get it anyway......................................

For the longest time, Rolls Royce didn't publish HP figures. Just said "adequate" or something like that. But everyone knew what was going into it. How it took one guy like 2 days to build the grille, and he had been doing it for 30 years. How it took 12 hides to do the interior, etc. 

Some are beating around the bush like its the ****ing briefase in Pulp Fiction. Why not say "this amp is was inspired by the Linear Power 5002, and it uses TO-3 output transistors, 100 degree caps, etc." I'm not sure why people who have one are expecting those who don't to "believe" when the proof is in the amp. You don't need pictures to know if the thing is overbuilt, has enough output transistors, has high temp caps, etc. We are all smart enough to be able to extrapolate how well an amp is built from a few parts (assuming they used all parts of that caliber).

Juan


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

fredridge said:


> Sheep - I thought that was usually a euphemism used to describe someone who is a follower, not bright and does what other people tell them.... really no ability to make a personal choice


My pictionary fun was for what the marketing machine thinks of the car/home audio crowd. 

They think if they repackage old technology year after year we will keep buying it...and we do.

If zuki posted regular power ratings, do you think people would have bought it without knowing the guy personally? 

Test:

5Wx4 $400
25Wx4 $400
50Wx4 $400
100Wx4 $400
200Wx4 $400

At what point does your curiosity turn into doubt? At what point does the product get your attention if you want to design a system around some type of valid measurement system?

Consider the company is unknown to you, would you buy a 50X4 from them for $400 with no info? Would it even make it on your radar screen? What about the other power ratings?

5Wx4 was meant to get peoples attention...and it worked.


----------



## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*One thing I have learned from this thread is we need to charge more money on our products and not give out any info. Would get a ton of attention.

 *


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

As far as a business model goes I love it. Very little overhead with the advent of the internet. No marketing, sales, dealers, ect... Give the customer a good product at a good price. Basically build to demand. Do what you love to do. Maybe make a few bucks along the way. It's almost inspirational.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> As far as a business model goes I love it. Very little overhead with the advent of the internet. No marketing, sales, dealers, ect... Give the customer a good product at a good price. Basically build to demand. Do what you love to do. Maybe make a few bucks along the way. It's almost inspirational.



But........ the flavor of the month product shifts often


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

dbest2918 said:


> As far as a business model goes I love it. Very little overhead with the advent of the internet. No marketing, sales, dealers, ect... Give the customer a good product at a good price. Basically build to demand. Do what you love to do. Maybe make a few bucks along the way. It's almost inspirational.


X2  



thylantyr said:


> But........ the flavor of the month product shifts often


If you build a great solid product. Wich illustrates great value and makes people happy. People will still buy it regardless. Then tell others about it. Personal referals are more effective than most general marketing. If you try to be the "it" flavor of the month. Then your out to just make a quick buck.


----------



## VaVroom1 (Dec 2, 2005)

damn 28 pages trying to look for the reveal proper! 

smgreen, please hasten before it explodes to 100. thank you in advance.


----------



## alius123 (Jun 22, 2006)

wow, what a thread. So emotional, for the record, I never said the zuki was more powerful than the mb quart. I said that it played and handled my speakers alot better than the mb quart. The mb quart was just a reference. I posted the wattage just for those that we keep hearing from that wattage matters!!!! My speakers should by specs require at least 140 watts, and your right the zuki probably is less than a 100 watts, so how do you explain that?? I have a PPI A300.2 and it handled my speakers alot better than the mb quart as well and it's rating is 75 x 2 which im sure is a little underrated. Maybe it's dampening factor or efficiency...you tell me, I don't know the exact reason.

I was actually planning on posting the internals before I bought the amp, I was infact on the same side as those that want specs. I was initially excited to be the first to 'reveal' this amp. I just figured I wanted to know what this was about, and I am someone who likes to take risks cause it makes more fun. I did not in the end post internals for the same reason as everyone else. It works great and mainly because Patrick was very nice so I have no reason to post it just to be rude. I will open it up though probably sometime next week just to have a look myself. For those that think this is a big conspiracy haha... When he emailed me, he said nothing about not posting internals or not even being able to open it. For the record there are alot of amps that have ways of voiding their warranty upon opening. Now, what we talked about...he asked what music I listen too, obviously because of the cds!! Next we just talked about home headphones and alittle about home audio, nothing interagative into whether or not I would open his amp...in fact where do you see on his site that it says YOU MAY NOT OPEN MY AMP? nowhere. 

I would like to tell people that all reviews are biased opinions and even then, we hear and like different characteristics of sound. On the other note. We were able to play with the zuki to get my friend's mids not to pop if anyone was interested. Upping the gain made all the difference and we took zuki's recommendation of using the amps crossover to verify lower harmonics were not interfering. 

wew, anyway, in the end I just want people on here to stop name calling on Patrick because you are upset about specs and then start creating rude rationalizations against him. How about just assuming that he does not care enough to feel the need to make this official. I don't know the real reasons, but I just personally assume he is just doing this for fun of car audio and people are making his operation into something bigger than what it really is.


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

OldOneEye said:


> Some are beating around the bush like its the ****ing briefase in Pulp Fiction. Why not say "this amp is was inspired by the Linear Power 5002, and it uses TO-3 output transistors, 100 degree caps, etc."
> Juan


Not some, just me; and I can't answer it any other way because I don't own one.

I am willing to admit that I helped design this amp; and I will now let out the big secret to what makes this amp so great, and why it takes so long to get one.

The traces in the circuit boards are made from the Golden Tickets in Willy Wonka chocolate bars. As many know, it's a crap shoot on how often a Golden Ticket will appear in the Wonka Bar. I parted ways with Patrick shortly after the first few amps were made. I could no longer stand to watch him gain all that weight; nor stomach the smell of semi-sweet chocolate that would fill the room. 


If the guy is doing something illegal, I hope he gets put in a jail cell with Bubba; as I cannot stand a thief. I couldn't care less about his amps, because I will never buy one. There are far too many good amps that I know the specs for that I cannot currently afford; I don't need there to be another one on that list. If the worst that happens to anyone that buys one of these amps is that they somehow believe they are now better than me, so be it; all the things that surround me outside of this computer let me know that I'm doing just fine. Besides, if a little thing like an amp can make an ignorant, sucker sheep swell with elitist pride, who am I to take that away from them.

If this amp is snake oyl, it won't make a single intelligent person here an idiot, only expose those that already were idiotic. Then again, calling someone an idiot for enjoying something that others believe shouldn't be enjoyable is kinda subjective, isn't it?


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

alius123 said:


> wow, what a thread. So emotional, for the record, I never said the zuki was more powerful than the mb quart. I said that it played and handled my speakers alot better than the mb quart. The mb quart was just a reference. I posted the wattage just for those that we keep hearing from that wattage matters!!!! My speakers should by specs require at least 140 watts, and your right the zuki probably is less than a 100 watts, so how do you explain that?? I have a PPI A300.2 and it handled my speakers alot better than the mb quart as well and it's rating is 75 x 2 which im sure is a little underrated. Maybe it's dampening factor or efficiency...you tell me, I don't know the exact reason.
> 
> I was actually planning on posting the internals before I bought the amp, I was infact on the same side as those that want specs. I was initially excited to be the first to 'reveal' this amp. I just figured I wanted to know what this was about, and I am someone who likes to take risks cause it makes more fun. I did not in the end post internals for the same reason as everyone else. It works great and mainly because Patrick was very nice so I have no reason to post it just to be rude. I will open it up though probably sometime next week just to have a look myself. For those that think this is a big conspiracy haha... When he emailed me, he said nothing about not posting internals or not even being able to open it. For the record there are alot of amps that have ways of voiding their warranty upon opening. Now, what we talked about...he asked what music I listen too, obviously because of the cds!! Next we just talked about home headphones and alittle about home audio, nothing interagative into whether or not I would open his amp...in fact where do you see on his site that it says YOU MAY NOT OPEN MY AMP? nowhere.
> 
> ...


I couldn't say it any better.  

I vote NO!  to the amp being revealed. For those who are supposely so curious. If you are so curious. Why don't you do buy one. Then do what ever you please with it. Zuki has the right to market and run his business as he pleases. All the people that are making up irrational assumptions about Zuki. Are the ones that will never buy a Zuki amp anyways. So why does it really matter?


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

And the reason I'll never own a Zuki is because I know nothing about it besides "it's the bestest in the whole wide world".


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

OK , Everyone list your reasons while you'll never own so and so amp  

I'll never own a JY made amp because of personal reasons!  
This has nothing to do with the quality or the sound .


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

This is why I have a problem with you Hic. DIYMA USED to be about learning things and seeing how stuff worked. Seeing if items ARE what they are cracked up to be. Giving people information so that they could make an INFORMED purchase. Allowing them for themselves to decide if an item fits their application.

This is unfortunately going away more and more it seems to me. It's becoming elitist, closed off and becoming less about the knowledge and more about myths. Could I afford a Zuki? Sure. Will I consider one? Not a chance because I know nothing about it. I don't take people's opinions as my sole source of information on a purchase, especially one of several hundreds of dollars. I don't need EVERY detail, but at the very least some basic specifications.


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

MuTT said:


> I was talking to Patrick about picking some of these up, super nice guy thats for sure..
> but, I was made to feel like I was applying for the position of owning a Zuki, was kinda weird. The pricing was definitely good if the amps are anywhere near as nice as "they" say.
> 
> I was two seconds from completing the transaction when the thought came to me.....
> ...


You have an active imagination. Interesting .

Ge0


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Daishi said:


> This is why I have a problem with you Hic. DIYMA USED to be about learning things and seeing how stuff worked. Seeing if items ARE what they are cracked up to be. Giving people information so that they could make an INFORMED purchase. Allowing them for themselves to decide if an item fits their application.
> 
> This is unfortunately going away more and more it seems to me. It's becoming elitist, closed off and becoming less about the knowledge and more about myths. Could I afford a Zuki? Sure. Will I consider one? Not a chance because I know nothing about it. I don't take people's opinions as my sole source of information on a purchase, especially one of several hundreds of dollars. I don't need EVERY detail, but at the very least some basic specifications.


I understand what you are saying, for me personally it is what someone espouses [ sound quality is all I've ever seen from Zuki ], you want to know about the milk and I want to know about the refrigeration system,the cows lineage,etc..,

Several years ago Zuki CDs were exactly what they are today [excellence in mastering, you can tell he didn't take any shortcuts ]  

So read the specs to the milk you are going to buy, expiration date,etc..,
and then buy it...the milk I drank when I was a young-un came in metal crates glass bottles and had cream on it ,{Twin Pines , mascot was "Milky the Clown", Twin Pines is gone so is their milk, I have tasted milk right at the farm before it is pasteurized, homogenized and basically stripped of all its goodness},I know what I like. 

My mash potatos are to die for, unsalted sweet cream butter is the main reason.

I cook with out recipes [drives everone nuts  ] for my sisters B-Day I made spaghetti sauce from all fresh herbs and vegetables [even wrote it down on paper for her{thank God it was the best she ever tasted}be a shame to wing it, record it, and it be a flop  

There are a million amplifiers out there that will amplify the signal, this is all I can say "Bang for the Buck" is what should drive your choice, that's How I Roll !!


----------



## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

Daishi said:


> This is why I have a problem with you Hic. DIYMA USED to be about learning things and seeing how stuff worked. Seeing if items ARE what they are cracked up to be. Giving people information so that they could make an INFORMED purchase. Allowing them for themselves to decide if an item fits their application.
> 
> This is unfortunately going away more and more it seems to me. It's becoming elitist, closed off and becoming less about the knowledge and more about myths. Could I afford a Zuki? Sure. Will I consider one? Not a chance because I know nothing about it. I don't take people's opinions as my sole source of information on a purchase, especially one of several hundreds of dollars. I don't need EVERY detail, but at the very least some basic specifications.


Please don't get him started again.......please. 

Explain the eliteist theory.....where has anyone snobbed you because you don't own a Zuki? Where has anyone said that my amp is better than yours? I know there have been some "glowing" reviews that make some pretty far-fetched claims. I know Hic needs his meds and goes off in circles, but he hit a tree with his head and is one a different wavelength now.......but I have all my marbles, what do you need to know? I agree fully that this place has changed drastically and I am not liking the changes so much either, but I just don't get where I am an elitist or a sheep


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I am very impessed with Richard Clark, He went along way towards showing not talking, he has had an undefeated car [ when money was the prize  ], he built a subwoofer and powered it off of capacitors { 60 inch }, he has a CD manufacturing or pressing plant, he put his mouth where his money was!!

Werewolf totally impresses me !! CLASS can not be bought, you either have it or you don't !!

My recent TBI is an on again off again , trial and error process for my doctors, Friday the 29th of February, I had a plate removed from my jaw, the medication they gave me interacted with my other medications in a bad way.

Oh, enough about things...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Human nature is to fear what you don't understand.

Change is the only constant.

The commoness of certain things is a given, as it should be! 

The Sun will shine on nothing new !


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

A leopard cannot change his apperance, tigers and Zebras have a certain characteristic, Zuki cannot compromise when it comes to his hobby...


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

finebar4 said:


> Please don't get him started again.......please.
> 
> Explain the eliteist theory.....where has anyone snobbed you because you don't own a Zuki? Where has anyone said that my amp is better than yours? I know there have been some "glowing" reviews that make some pretty far-fetched claims. I know Hic needs his meds and goes off in circles, but he hit a tree with his head and is one a different wavelength now.......but I have all my marbles, what do you need to know? I agree fully that this place has changed drastically and I am not liking the changes so much either, but I just don't get where I am an elitist or a sheep


Ok, here's my issue, and maybe I could have used better word selection in my previous post, but I do feel there is a bit of "elitism" going on  Normally, when a new product came to the market or a new home audio driver was discovered people on this board were excited. Excited to not only try it out, but to test it. See what the numbers looked like, see if the unit was worth the price at least on paper. Then the listening reviews would be done. it was the combination between the two that gave DIYMA that aura about it to me. It wasn't to bash the product, it was to LEARN something new. Be it just information on that product, or some test procedure, theory or concept that came out from the thread. Basically it was about gaining knowledge that's all. I'm not saying that isn't still going on here, but there are more and more people coming here from other forums that not only go against that idea, but go out of their way to be closed off.

I hear comments from some Zuki owners like "why do you care what the specs are? It's not important." or "you're just a hater because you don't own one, but it doesn't matter anyways because it's not like you'd own one ever." That to me is the opposite of what this board was about when it was first started. That to me is the talk of elitist from the home audio world or some of the guys that are in the top end of the car audio world. To me those comments give me a couple of different feelings from Zuki owners. 1) I'm just an troublemaker because I want information that's "not important" and I'm trying to rain on their parade and convince them that what they bought is crap. 2) That I'm not good enough to own a Zuki, or not worthy enough to own a Zuki and therefore my requests are pointless and just there again, to stir up trouble.

My question is why is keeping the information secret so important? Why do I have to decide to buy the amp on blind faith from others opinions on how it sounds?

khail said it best. Some of us will buy on simple reviews on how it sounds, some of us will buy on specifications alone and some of us like both bits of information before we make a decision. That's why the Zuki's aren't for me, they just don't have that second bit of stuff, called specifications for me to take the blind faith leap that you and others have. Maybe I'm missing the boat on that, and if I am that's a shame, but I like information and therefore I'll take business elsewhere. Not just from a purchasing decision, but because of a personal decision to not buy into the blind faith group.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Daishi said:


> Ok, here's my issue, and maybe I could have used better word selection in my previous post, but I do feel there is a bit of "elitism" going on  Normally, when a new product came to the market or a new home audio driver was discovered people on this board were excited. Excited to not only try it out, but to test it. See what the numbers looked like, see if the unit was worth the price at least on paper. Then the listening reviews would be done. it was the combination between the two that gave DIYMA that aura about it to me. It wasn't to bash the product, it was to LEARN something new. Be it just information on that product, or some test procedure, theory or concept that came out from the thread. Basically it was about gaining knowledge that's all. I'm not saying that isn't still going on here, but there are more and more people coming here from other forums that not only go against that idea, but go out of their way to be closed off.
> 
> I hear comments from some Zuki owners like "why do you care what the specs are? It's not important." or "you're just a hater because you don't own one, but it doesn't matter anyways because it's not like you'd own one ever." That to me is the opposite of what this board was about when it was first started. That to me is the talk of elitist from the home audio world or some of the guys that are in the top end of the car audio world. To me those comments give me a couple of different feelings from Zuki owners. 1) I'm just an troublemaker because I want information that's "not important" and I'm trying to rain on their parade and convince them that what they bought is crap. 2) That I'm not good enough to own a Zuki, or not worthy enough to own a Zuki and therefore my requests are pointless and just there again, to stir up trouble.
> 
> ...


I have no problems with your decision, "Above all else To Thine Ownself be True".

The control of said product is in Zuki's hands !

Being that he has asked very nicely, informing me of his wishes, I will honor them


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

finebar4 said:


> Please don't get him started again.......please.
> 
> Explain the eliteist theory.....where has anyone snobbed you because you don't own a Zuki? Where has anyone said that my amp is better than yours? I know there have been some "glowing" reviews that make some pretty far-fetched claims. I know Hic needs his meds and goes off in circles, but he hit a tree with his head and is one a different wavelength now.......but I have all my marbles, what do you need to know? I agree fully that this place has changed drastically and I am not liking the changes so much either, but I just don't get where I am an elitist or a sheep


I think Daishi may have been suggesting that this topic was one of many symptoms of the problem and not the root of it. It is undeniable that the frequency of "because I have listened to the best equipment in the world and you are just an ignorant peasant" answers has increased. Attributing magical sonic properties to amps, wires, drivers and the like has gone way beyond Zuki.

Somebody talked about Zuki coating his CDs in green marker. How many times does that need to be ABX'd before it is put to bed? People have been comparing the quality of the "mastering" of Zuki CDs vs. Audionutz CDs. Audionutz himself participated in at least two threads on ECA that went into great depth about the possibility of improving a CD's quality when copying it. Richard Clark chimed in. It's worth seeking out for those who are interested in such things. To summarize, there isn't even a theoretical mechanism through which you can improve the overall sound of a CD by copying it, doodling on it or anything else. You can certainly change it, even in a way that sounds better to you, but that doesn't mean anything. Steve (Audionutz) doesn't claim his CDs are enhanced in any way, just that are great tracks for evaluating an SQ system, reproduced the best way he knows how. 

That's what I mean by elitism - debating stuff that defies objective quantification by members of a self identified priesthood.

In the old days, somebody would have started a post about how great their new Zuki amp sounded. Since the specs give no information about why that might be so. Somebody would have arranged to have it bench tested and discussion would have followed. Seeing the internals will be interesting, but not likely to be very useful - certainly not to people as ignorant about such things as I am. 

So what are the possibilities? Either these amps are distorting in a way that people find pleasing or they are not only producing more than advertised power, but producing more power than people are accustomed to seeing in packages like these. More "headroom" lets the system get louder without distortion - which always sounds better to me. 

What other options are there? By SQ, I mean accurate reproduction, not some magic sauce that gets sprinkled on products before they get shipped. As has been mentioned, Zuki amps are almost certainly white box jobs assembled from the same menu of components that anyone dealing with a build house will have access to. They could be great values or at the prices listed, they may be just decent values that produce more power than expected. Testing will answer the questions. Anything else is just golden ear ******** - elitism in this context.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

tonight the city is full of morgues
and all the toilets are overflowing
there's shopping malls coming out of the walls
as we walk out among the manure
that's why
I pay no mind
I pay no mind
I pay no mind
give the finger to the rock 'n' roll singer
as he's dancing upon your paycheck
the sales climb high through the garbage-pail sky
like a giant dildo crushing the sun
that's why
I pay no mind
sleep in slime
I just got signed
so get out your lead-pipe pipe dreams
get out your ten-foot flags
the insects are huge and the poison's all been
used and the drugs won't kill your day job...honey
that's why
I pay no mind
I pay no mind
I pay no mind
that's why
I pay no mind


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

This is why I had hoped Don read my post and commented because he has much more eloquence than I do  That's exactly what I see going on here more and more, and it just happens that the Zuki's are at the forefront right now that's all.

jj-diamond - are you and Hic on the same meds or something?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I try to get the most I can [run it at it's limits ]out of the things I use.

I have bungee jumped from 110 feet, I have waterskied,downhill skied,etc..,

I started out on mini bikes and proceeded to road bikes, I drove my 750 four down a dirt road in the rain at a very high rate of speed to see if it could handle the adverse conditions.

I modified my 30-06 [ pac skin, que industries muzzle brake and tuning[ ballistic optimization shooting system],trigger adjusted to 1 pound pull, decelerator pad added to butt [ some said it had less kick than a 30-30 ] 

I put airplane fuel in my mortorcycle, I have added anything and everything to my PSE compound bow, I have shot it 100 yds in front of many people, I tested it for distance because I like performance.

I had to learn quite a bit about F.O.C. to increase my arrows performance.

The funny thing about second best is if you'll settle for it you will get it!!

Second place is the first loser ! 

I am a systems man, it has to do it all ! "Plain an Simple"


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

So the rest of you don't put performance chips in your vehicles ? You don't care about making something the best you can, Pete and myself share a similar outlook on life!

Within our limits we try to make something the best it can be [I see that we are an abysmal flop in somes eyeys  ]


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

Oh, I mod my car no question about it, but I know WHAT I'm doing to it. I know all aspects of the part and exactly how it will work in my car and with my other modifications. I don't go and buy something because "it's great" I buy it because I know how it does what it does.

Oh well, I'm done with this thread as I can see we won't get any real info on these amps, so I'll just wait until we get a thread that does.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Are you a "is it payday" person ?

When i first returned to work, something I had never heard of happening in my several years working there occurred, the air pressure dropped and shut down my chiller, A person who has been there longer than me by a few years told me I would lose the building.

I had everything under control within 2 hours.

My manager was asking me why I was doing things, I couldn't talk at the time, but explained everything in detail once I had accomplished the task at hand.

I always needed to be the best I could and have the answers when others had questions, "HP~What if"  

I found out that this model chiller could run at 103% for an extended period of time and would only drop out at 105% for 10 minutes, that's where I run it 103%, it is quiet and efficient, there.

The guys on the second shift run two chillers at between 65 - 70 percent, it's noisy and it wastes money[ twice as much wear and tear, twice as much electricity, etc.., ].


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Daishi said:


> Oh, I mod my car no question about it, but I know WHAT I'm doing to it. I know all aspects of the part and exactly how it will work in my car and with my other modifications. I don't go and buy something because "it's great" I buy it because I know how it does what it does.
> 
> Oh well, I'm done with this thread as I can see we won't get any real info on these amps, so I'll just wait until we get a thread that does.


I agree with you, totally !

Who started the thread would be my question ?

Is this person coming through on his promises ?

Or is BS what I see  

some one talkin ish [hehe ]


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I think Daishi may have been suggesting that this topic was one of many symptoms of the problem and not the root of it. It is undeniable that the frequency of "because I have listened to the best equipment in the world and you are just an ignorant peasant" answers has increased. Attributing magical sonic properties to amps, wires, drivers and the like has gone way beyond Zuki.
> Anything else is just golden ear ******** - elitism in this context.


i remember when people were saying the Tru amplifiers were the best they had ever heard, some years back  

The Steel Series looks like it is a "No compromise" approach, I would think anyone would be happy with the performance of those


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> I think Daishi may have been suggesting that this topic was one of many symptoms of the problem and not the root of it. It is undeniable that the frequency of "because I have listened to the best equipment in the world and you are just an ignorant peasant" answers has increased. Attributing magical sonic properties to amps, wires, drivers and the like has gone way beyond Zuki.
> 
> Somebody talked about Zuki coating his CDs in green marker. How many times does that need to be ABX'd before it is put to bed? People have been comparing the quality of the "mastering" of Zuki CDs vs. Audionutz CDs. Audionutz himself participated in at least two threads on ECA that went into great depth about the possibility of improving a CD's quality when copying it. Richard Clark chimed in. It's worth seeking out for those who are interested in such things. To summarize, there isn't even a theoretical mechanism through which you can improve the overall sound of a CD by copying it, doodling on it or anything else. You can certainly change it, even in a way that sounds better to you, but that doesn't mean anything. Steve (Audionutz) doesn't claim his CDs are enhanced in any way, just that are great tracks for evaluating an SQ system, reproduced the best way he knows how.
> 
> ...



Excellent post and I think supportive of the so called "Zuki Opposition" stance.


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

Wow, and a$$hole is getting worse by the minute...  

I really think those of us that are truely 'sane' and in control of ourselves, really need to contact DIYMA about a$$hole and his completely insane ramblings...

I mean it is obvious he is way out in left field and barely keeping control of things... Any of his 'contributions' in this state are mass-distractions and add nothing to the conversation other than him being the 'rambling crazy one' that comes and goes...

For the 'sanity' of the board, something REALLY needs to be done...

Sorry about the outtake from the subject at hand (Zuki), but this just has to stop...


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

dbphelps said:


> Wow, and a$$hole is getting worse by the minute...
> 
> I really think those of us that are truely 'sane' and in control of ourselves, really need to contact DIYMA about a$$hole and his completely insane ramblings...
> 
> ...




LOL! I defended him prior due to his trauma induced mental limitations, but he's getting to the point of nausea! LOL He IS the uncle that is going senile and needs to be discussed whether a convalescent home is appropriate at this juncture in time! Sorry Hole, but for a person who can't really speak, you need the key board taken away from you because you are typing verbal diarrhea !


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

excellent post and I agree... deals directly with issues and not name calling. I also agree that this is probably the most common opposition to the "zuki" crowd, but just like anything there are people on both sides that are way out on a limb, calling names, making huge assumptions etc.... Let's get back to these type of conversations... I am totally up for that



Rudeboy said:


> I think Daishi may have been suggesting that this topic was one of many symptoms of the problem and not the root of it. It is undeniable that the frequency of "because I have listened to the best equipment in the world and you are just an ignorant peasant" answers has increased. Attributing magical sonic properties to amps, wires, drivers and the like has gone way beyond Zuki.
> 
> Somebody talked about Zuki coating his CDs in green marker. How many times does that need to be ABX'd before it is put to bed? People have been comparing the quality of the "mastering" of Zuki CDs vs. Audionutz CDs. Audionutz himself participated in at least two threads on ECA that went into great depth about the possibility of improving a CD's quality when copying it. Richard Clark chimed in. It's worth seeking out for those who are interested in such things. To summarize, there isn't even a theoretical mechanism through which you can improve the overall sound of a CD by copying it, doodling on it or anything else. You can certainly change it, even in a way that sounds better to you, but that doesn't mean anything. Steve (Audionutz) doesn't claim his CDs are enhanced in any way, just that are great tracks for evaluating an SQ system, reproduced the best way he knows how.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

dbphelps said:


> Wow, and a$$hole is getting worse by the minute...
> 
> I really think those of us that are truely 'sane' and in control of ourselves, really need to contact DIYMA about a$$hole and his completely insane ramblings...
> 
> ...


I would select "Ignore" on your buddy/ignore list


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

The person who started this thread was talkin out of his arse, he has not produced what he claimed he would  

No one is interested in that  

OK, I can get Ferraris all day long for anyone who wants one for $15.00 dollars  Brand New Ones  

What do you want on yours  

Look at what I can do, aren't I important  

He is talkin ish, the ones who claim to be showing us stuff, ain't showing me nothing !

       :


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Dillyyo said:


> LOL! I defended him prior due to his trauma induced mental limitations, but he's getting to the point of nausea! LOL He IS the uncle that is going senile and needs to be discussed whether a convalescent home is appropriate at this juncture in time! Sorry Hole, but for a person who can't really speak, you need the key board taken away from you because you are typing verbal diarrhea !


Please send money now to help  

seriously, somebody told you what you wanted to hear [ we were had  ].

If you feel like he has done us a service, add him to your buddy list !


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

Daishi said:


> This is why I had hoped Don read my post and commented because he has much more eloquence than I do  That's exactly what I see going on here more and more, and it just happens that the Zuki's are at the forefront right now that's all.
> 
> *jj-diamond - are you and Hic on the same meds or something?*


_\|/_ = only meds i need


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> i remember when people were saying the Tru amplifiers were the best they had ever heard, some years back


And others argued that they were just hugely hyped mediocre imports. As with anything, including all of the tuning/optimization of machinery you listed before, better and best can be quantified.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> better and best can be quantified.


I totally agree with this statement ^^^^^^^^^^^ !


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

dbphelps said:


> Wow, and a$$hole is getting worse by the minute...
> 
> I really think those of us that are truely 'sane' and in control of ourselves, really need to contact DIYMA about a$$hole and his completely insane ramblings...
> 
> ...


You disagree with someone's opinion so you want to run in and tell the teacher on them? 

Speaking of insane ramblings:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24887


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

AzGrower said:


> I dont care if he puts underwear gnomes in his amps....all I care about is how freaking clean these amps perform...its jawdropping.


True dat  

Even if the Maharishi won't tell me the meaning of life, I am glad I climbed the mountain


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> You disagree with someone's opinion so you want to run in and tell the teacher on them?
> 
> Speaking of insane ramblings:
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24887


he's too intelligent to use the ignore function like most of us.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

dbphelps said:


> Wow, and a$$hole is getting worse by the minute...
> 
> I really think those of us that are truely 'sane' and in control of ourselves, really need to contact DIYMA about a$$hole and his completely insane ramblings...
> 
> ...





Dillyyo said:


> LOL! I defended him prior due to his trauma induced mental limitations, but he's getting to the point of nausea! LOL He IS the uncle that is going senile and needs to be discussed whether a convalescent home is appropriate at this juncture in time! Sorry Hole, but for a person who can't really speak, you need the key board taken away from you because you are typing verbal diarrhea !


I'm hoping that he will get a little more concise as time goes on - but I'm sure more people wish that for me than for him. If you have no interest in what a$$hole has to say, ignore is always there. 

I see some poetry in his posts. Even though I find him exasperating at times, for me, the gems are worth the effort. However difficult it may sometimes be for us to parse his meaning, I suspect it is much harder for him to meet us halfway than it is us him. 

Senile uncles are entirely different. A$$hole isn't cursing people at random and telling the babysitter he wants to see her tits. Not here at least.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm hoping that he will get a little more concise as time goes on - but I'm sure more people wish that for me than for him. If you have no interest in what a$$hole has to say, ignore is always there.
> 
> I see some poetry in his posts. Even though I find him exasperating at times, for me, the gems are worth the effort. However difficult it may sometimes be for us to parse his meaning, I suspect it is much harder for him to meet us halfway than it is us him.
> 
> Senile uncles are entirely different. A$$hole isn't cursing people at random and telling the babysitter he wants to see her tits. Not here at least.


Rudeboy... thank You !

{my eyes are moist, probably the TBI or meds }

Thank You


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm hoping that he will get a little more concise as time goes on - but I'm sure more people wish that for me than for him. If you have no interest in what a$$hole has to say, ignore is always there.
> 
> I see some poetry in his posts. Even though I find him exasperating at times, for me, the gems are worth the effort. However difficult it may sometimes be for us to parse his meaning, I suspect it is much harder for him to meet us halfway than it is us him.
> 
> Senile uncles are entirely different. A$$hole isn't cursing people at random and telling the babysitter he wants to see her tits. Not here at least.


True True!! No harm intended towards Arsehole because I don't know him, but sometimes we have to take the scissors out of our kids hands. I think it's time that his sister gives him a keyboard timeout or at least restrict his usage! I partake in most forums, due to my interest, for more technical feedback/discussions. Now I must sift out meanings from riddles! 

Needless to say, hope you have a safe path to recovery Arse, just put down the pipe once in awhile!


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

smgreen20 said:


> I'm a home member on another forum. There we have two people that repair amps. 1 does it as a hobby and the other is his 9-5 job. A bunch of us on that forum got together to and bought a Zuki amp to see just what is it that's so special about these amps compared to others. We're not sure just yet if we're going to share the posted forum thread to others, but we will let others know the "truth" behind the Zuki amps. We're keeping an open mind and hope it's as good as others report. I will keep you updated.


no response after 32 pages. granted it's only been one day since this thread was started. 
it will interesting but not surprising what these folks have to say about the amp since one of them is probably affiliated with a major car audio name brand. i hope amp #13 will have the good Vegas odds for everyone to see. i don't feel it will prove anything unless you listen to the damn gear. but again that's my opinion. but no self righteous person on this board should ever listen to ones *real life* opinion on anything because specs don't lie.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> Rudeboy... thank You !


Not at all. Just because I disagree with you sometimes doesn't mean I think you are a bad guy. I'm learning a lot from you, not just in how you are overcoming, but from a lot of what you have to say. That's been especially true now that you are doing less essay length quoting and contributing more of your own thoughts. Keep it up.


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Here we go again...30 plus pages!

Well, the one thing I think we all can agree on is....Zuki Audio did a great job at stirring up the pot and getting people talking about amps. That is not an easy thing to do in this jaded market.

Come on....just look at the web site, then look at the products, then look at the specs...Looks like nothing special on the surface.

These amps may very well be the real deal or may be a spin on something done before but you have to give mad props to this small company that manages to generate twenty, thirty, and forty page posts on major audio forums.

I guess we will all have to wait and see if this will be another her hear today gone tomorrow Internet company or the making of an amplifier legend. Time will tell all.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

1. If you are interested in a zuki amp, you can tell from this thread, who you may want to contact to discuss them.

2. Those of you who are bashing, are not interested, and really just dragging out this thread for no other reason then to increase your post count.

3. 90% of the gear you have purchased, was done solely on the opinion of others. If you do not agree, then you are lying. Published specs on speakers only tell part of the story. You chose your amps based on power ratings, but those same choices are available from dozens of other manufacturers. So, why'd you choose the ones you did?

People's opinion?
Size? 


In other words, if you don't want a zuki amp, then why get involved in the thread? If you are interested in them, make a real thread to discuss and not bash, and you may get more in return.

I have answered literally DOZENS of PM's about the amps. That's how I can tell who I should take my time to talk to, and who is just wasting my time.

Most of you in this thread are just wasting my time.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

backwoods said:


> 1. If you are interested in a zuki amp, you can tell from this thread, who you may want to contact to discuss them.
> 
> 2. Those of you who are bashing, are not interested, and really just dragging out this thread for no other reason then to increase your post count.
> 
> ...


Use such an unorthodox marketing campaign and you may get some strong reactions. So what? People can be interested in exchanging ideas without just wanting to "increase their post count" - actually be sad and silly if people were bothering to post for that reason.

I didn't see any notices on this thread saying that anything but positive responses will be deemed wastes of backwood's time and will not be tolerated. See if you can get ANT to put a sticky at the top of the page to explain to us which topics and approaches will work with our schedule because ... oh damn, now that I think about it, that probably won't change anything.

Since you are presenting yourself as some sort of official/unofficial? Zuki rep, or at least somebody willing to answer his mail, you might want to consider getting ahead of the OP's project. It might be better if you make the information public before somebody else does.


----------



## LastResort (Oct 24, 2007)

It's interesting to see so many people attempting to set the frame for discussing these products. Keeping discussions to back rooms, avoiding technical benchmarks, and limiting the participants to "interested buyers" are all things that scream snake oil to me. Marketing and opinion is not sufficient for me as a buyer.


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

This thread has become a sense less/ use less debate. Two sides trying to shove each other's point of view down each other throats. In the end there is nothing to gain and nobody wins.


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

at the end of the day though we all know we are going to check this thread just to see if those nudie pics are here yet. Kinda like waiting for the new playboy mag to get to the house.


----------



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Damn! I don't read this for a few days and this is what happens. We're not sure we're going to post them. We are going to at OUR site. It depends on a few things IF we post it elsewhere. The more I think about it, they wanted this to be hush hush and IF it was released we wanted to suprise people. Again, this is not to say that we are, but at the time being it will be just our group. We don't want to offend people, but at the same time people have the right to know the truth IF there is any. I didn't read all 16 some pages on this thread.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

lol...

well, as far as that's concerned, they already are posted online. Just not many know where...


----------



## alius123 (Jun 22, 2006)

It seems to me that the issue is not so much wanting inside pics but someone to actually do an official test to get realistic specs. I personally don't have the equipment to do so and Im assuming since not very many others have this amp, they don't as well.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

smgreen20 said:


> We're not sure we're going to post them.
> 
> It depends on a few things IF we post it elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Well Mike thanx for everything  

quoted from his page}
"If you hate something, don't you do it too." A big fan of Clarion, Eclipse and Phoenix Gold! Been into car audio since 1992 and I take it seriously
end quote}


----------



## crazy8 (Mar 3, 2008)

since this is taking soo long to post, Ill do it myself. Here are the zuki internals!!!!!!! Note that it was a ***** to open!! The sides or folded into the amp, you have to pry it out from the holes on the bottom.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Kinda looks like a Genesis


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

crazy8 said:


> since this is taking soo long to post, Ill do it myself. Here are the zuki internals!!!!!!! Note that it was a ***** to open!! The sides or folded into the amp, you have to pry it out from the holes on the bottom.


Let me take a stab here, they are Genesis amps made for Zuki Audio???  

Now, was that so hard? 

I just don't get the stupidity involved if that is the case... Oh, I get it now! Zuki wants to be the US version of the 'special' Genesis amps... 

Big deal... Shoulda sold them as Genesis amps...


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> Kinda looks like a Genesis


So you're saying Genny copied Zuki!


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Not so sure, look at where the 2 sets of terminals are located (next to each other). I seem more resemblance to a manufacturer that used to be in the bay area. Here is a 4 channel Genesis:


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Hell has frozen over!

Note the absence of emitter resistors


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)




----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> So you're saying Genny copied Zuki!


I'd say they both copied Soundstream.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chad said:


> Hell has frozen over!
> 
> Note the absence of emitter resistors


Brrrrrrr, you cold too?

What are those?

Hey, I see he used those small vertical boards in the design you admire so much.  What exactly are they for?

Also, "design by Los Vegas"


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> Hell has frozen over!
> 
> Note the absence of emitter resistors


That is a good thng? .....Right?

Someone give us a break down on it?


----------



## crazy8 (Mar 3, 2008)

I just realized that the pos and neg indicators on the case are switched from the indicators on board. You can see on the pics...which is which


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> Hey, I see he used those small vertical boards in the design you admire so much.  What exactly are they for?


Drive for the finals I suspect.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

crazy8 said:


> since this is taking soo long to post, Ill do it myself. Here are the zuki internals!!!!!!! Note that it was a ***** to open!! The sides or folded into the amp, you have to pry it out from the holes on the bottom.


This amp will self destruct in 5, 4, 3..... AAAAAHHH RUNNNN!!!!!!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> This amp will self destruct in 5, 4, 3..... AAAAAHHH RUNNNN!!!!!!


Nah, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. Oh wait! Crapola!!


----------



## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

aw man, it all makes sense why these sound so good! there really IS magic!!

just look a little closer and you just might notice....


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BassBaller5 said:


> aw man, it all makes sense why these sound so good! there really IS magic!!
> 
> just look a little closer and you just might notice....


ROFL


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

So it's confirmed. These amps got a wee bit o tha Irish in 'em LOL.


----------



## crazy8 (Mar 3, 2008)

wew, Im having a hell of a time getting the cover back on...the screws are so small and the lid I bent trying to pull the thing off when I didnt realize it was tucked under two screws inside haha. owell. Still an amazing sounding amp and Im impressed with the internals either way.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

299.00 GBP = 593.394 USD 

http://www.incarexpress.co.uk/view_product.php?partno=PROFILE4

This is a Profile 4 channel amplifier made by Genesis 

4 x 70W @ 2 Ohms 
4 x 50W @ 4 Ohms 
Input Sensitivity 0.3-4 Volts 
Fully Adjustable HPF 
Full Frequency LPF
2 x 140w RMS Bridged


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I was kind of expecting separate power and audio boards like the old Sonys and the Genesis'. Nice layout nonetheless and does look a lot like the SS.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

crazy8 said:


> wew, Im having a hell of a time getting the cover back on...the screws are so small and the lid I bent trying to pull the thing off when I didnt realize it was tucked under two screws inside haha. owell. Still an amazing sounding amp and Im impressed with the internals either way.


Pssshit, you heard what happened to that one guy, right? You are one lucky SOB!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A4iRRkjmrFk


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

Oh no... the Zuki pcb parts layout look likes something else. This
hasn't been done before..............................   




Toyota












Nissan











On no... these two cars look similar  


The Zuki looks fine to me. What is the watt estimate? This amp probably can carry 
a 75w x 4 @ 4 ohms, 125w x 4 @ 2 ohm rating. My first guess a few weeks ago. It's a throw the dart guess.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Best Bang for the Buck !!  

35 volt , 6800 microfarads x 4 capacitors, 85 degree celcius


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

I was looking for that yesterday for this thread... nice find



FoxPro5 said:


> Pssshit, you heard what happened to that one guy, right? You are one lucky SOB!
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=A4iRRkjmrFk


----------



## anjing (Apr 24, 2007)

Finally.....

Thanks people....I am going to buy a genesis amp now.
What is the top of the line for genesis 4 channel amp?
Does anyone know what the lowest line to the highest line?

thanks,


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhbiFKHwak&NR=1


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

anjing said:


> Finally.....
> 
> Thanks people....I am going to buy a genesis amp now.
> What is the top of the line for genesis 4 channel amp?
> ...


PM autophile  Peter Lufrano

He'll set you up !


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Wow after going through thirty some odd pages of basically gibberish, the guts are finally posted LOL Now someone more technical break it down for the uneducated in the such?


----------



## alius123 (Jun 22, 2006)

well now I dont need to look at mine haha. yea, seriously now that everyone got what they wanted, someone actually analyse it. It would be cool if we could get some thoughts from zuki now...no pressure though


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

now that we have pics, can someone actually tell me if my amps sound good or not, I am dying to know


----------



## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

fredridge said:


> now that we have pics, can someone actually tell me if my amps sound good or not, I am dying to know


and in one quick post, this entire thread gets PWND!


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

fredridge said:


> now that we have pics, can someone actually tell me if my amps sound good or not, I am dying to know


no, they don't.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

fredridge said:


> now that we have pics, can someone actually tell me if my amps sound good or not, I am dying to know


 
LMAO!!!

And don't worry, genesis would be more worried about a bigger fish that stole their designs. Atleast a few higher ups for genesis have said as much.

What's funny is, no one has still noticed the item zuki was so worried about being seen...

by the way, here's the other link for more pictures...

they've only been posted online for around 6 months...

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/Backwoodspaintb/Zuki Amp/


----------



## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

backwoods said:


> What's funny is, no one has still noticed the item zuki was so worried about being seen...
> 
> ]


...which is...?


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

oh c'mon, only one piece at a time!!!

we gotta keep some intrigue...It helps keep us simple sheep entertained...


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

backwoods said:


> oh c'mon, only one piece at a time!!!
> 
> we gotta keep some intrigue...It helps keep us simple sheep entertained...


LOL seems like you are having fun with this....maybe you should bench test it too


----------



## anjing (Apr 24, 2007)

As far as I know, There are a lot of those Hi-End amps now is being manufacture in China. I found many of those amp have 'sibling' under different brand with the same board.

Example: Tru Tech --- Same as --- Abyss
Phass Tube version - Braxton t4
I also find one of the manufacture for Butler too....All in China.

Maybe someone else want to add......




backwoods said:


> LMAO!!!
> 
> And don't worry, genesis would be more worried about a bigger fish that stole their designs. Atleast a few higher ups for genesis have said as much.
> 
> ...


----------



## anjing (Apr 24, 2007)

For example;
These 3 siblings came from same factory;
- http://www.dynaquest-audio.com/dtb.htm
- http://www.phass.com/eap-4.htm
- Braxton T4 amp (Famous in S.E. Asia)



Thanks,


----------



## low (Jun 2, 2005)

okay who do i make the check to for providing the pics..im not gonna read the entire thread but a big thank you for posting them!! i can now rest my troubled soul....


----------



## anjing (Apr 24, 2007)

Here is the sibling of Tru Tec; (attachment) Ring any bells ???!!!  

What I heard is Abyss is the one that actually design the original amp for Tru Tech, Until Tru broke the contract and have it manufacture in China now with different company.

http://en.iabyss.co.kr/product/product_list.html?jong0=abyss&jong1=AMP


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

You're way off topic .. but IIRC the new Tru amps are assembled in SoCal.


----------



## anjing (Apr 24, 2007)

Sorry, not trying to override the topic.


----------



## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

crazy8 said:


> since this is taking soo long to post, Ill do it myself. Here are the zuki internals!!!!!!! Note that it was a ***** to open!! The sides or folded into the amp, you have to pry it out from the holes on the bottom.


crazy8 DELIVERS! Thanks for the pics man. 

Pretty clean layout if you ask me - it looks like a high end amp should.

After so many months of all the drama, someone FINALLY posts the guts... amazing!


----------



## tard (Jul 13, 2006)

anjing said:


> Here is the sibling of Tru Tec; (attachment) Ring any bells ???!!!
> 
> What I heard is Abyss is the one that actually design the original amp for Tru Tech, Until Tru broke the contract and have it manufacture in China now with different company.
> 
> http://en.iabyss.co.kr/product/product_list.html?jong0=abyss&jong1=AMP


i think fairchild was a good engineer in his own right in his day. there's a big scam going on if tru is made in china. as they preach they are hand made in so cal, with as much parts as possible coming from made in usa suppliers.

btw- zuki looks pretty stout. wonder what kind of repercussions from where and onto whom are going to come from this.


----------



## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

I spy that peanut butter and 'nanner samwich guy


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

finebar4 said:


> I spy that peanut butter and 'nanner samwich guy


Don't be steppin' on my blue suede shoes, now! Where the hell is he?


----------



## rimshot (May 17, 2005)

I see many similarities with my rubicon 604 as well but im not surprised since I have been praising them for years along with some others, no hype necessary 






















I guess this is the part where people say he uses better parts and improved the design and so on but the truth is that its a good looking black *Zukicon*, the more I look at it the more I see a hell of alot more similarities. I got my first mint rubicon on ebay for 245 shipped BTW


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> Don't be steppin' on my blue suede shoes, now! Where the hell is he?


I think ...


----------



## VaVroom1 (Dec 2, 2005)

crazy8 said:


> since this is taking soo long to post, Ill do it myself. Here are the zuki internals!!!!!!! Note that it was a ***** to open!! The sides or folded into the amp, you have to pry it out from the holes on the bottom.


thank you crazy8 for the porn + bringing us back.

now......... group hug anyone?


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

anjing said:


> As far as I know, There are a lot of those Hi-End amps now is being manufacture in China. I found many of those amp have 'sibling' under different brand with the same board.
> 
> Example: Tru Tech --- Same as --- Abyss
> Phass Tube version - Braxton t4
> ...





anjing said:


> For example;
> These 3 siblings came from same factory;
> - http://www.dynaquest-audio.com/dtb.htm
> - http://www.phass.com/eap-4.htm
> ...





anjing said:


> Here is the sibling of Tru Tec; (attachment) Ring any bells ???!!!
> 
> What I heard is Abyss is the one that actually design the original amp for Tru Tech, Until Tru broke the contract and have it manufacture in China now with different company.
> 
> http://en.iabyss.co.kr/product/product_list.html?jong0=abyss&jong1=AMP



This is not new info. You guys let marketing sucker you in. Handmade/Hand assembled...who cares. Class A/B is old-designs are recyceld and cloned over and over and over and over (keep riding that merry go round). Nothing new. As long as the factory has good quality control, it doesn't matter.

/end of story

So the Zuki amp has plenty of outputs to spread the load out, PSU looks solid, but the heatsink can only dissapate so much heat anyway. Nice layout, looks like everything else out there.

I think I found the "special part" though


----------



## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

it does look to be a nice design. but in the end it is up to the ears of the listener to decide if this is the amp of the decade. I personally think they are beautiful amps


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

dejo said:


> it does look to be a nice design. but in the end it is up to the ears of the listener to decide if this is the amp of the decade. I personally think they are beautiful amps


Agreed, they are beautiful amps. All in all I'm glad the mystery is out of the air. Not sure why it was so hidden to begin with? Its got beautiful guts.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

skylar112 said:


> Agreed, they are beautiful amps. All in all I'm glad the mystery is out of the air. Not sure why it was so hidden to begin with? Its got beautiful guts.


...and beautiful sound.


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

dejo said:


> it does look to be a nice design. but in the end it is up to the ears of the listener to decide if this is the amp of the decade. I personally think they are beautiful amps


I love the look of them as well......My question is.....now that the guts have been reviled does it make the non believers want a Zuki? It seemed alot of harking was going on about his rating system and questionable guts....so now that you have seen under Elvis's skirt will other be jumping on the Zukimobile?


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

jj_diamond said:


> ...and beautiful sound.


I'm not sure how to configure guts into SQ, but I'm sure they sound great. Everyone that has own them speaks highly of them, I'm sure they sound very nice.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

havok20222 
DIYMA Contributor


I don't understand why some people feel they MUST resist a good thing. It makes no sense. 

It's a great amp for a good price  and havok20222 has a point


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> havok20222
> DIYMA Contributor
> 
> 
> ...


Well......not everyone knows anything about them, so "good" was all in the eye of the beholder. Secrecy still doesn't make friends .


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

rimshot said:


> I see many similarities with my rubicon 604 as well but im not surprised since I have been praising them for years along with some others, no hype necessary


Why? Because the finals are mounted to the top and they use daughterboards?


----------



## Duckman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: Zuki amps, soon to be revealed.*

Like your mom said after taking some crappy cough syrup....NOW really was it all that bad. It's now over...shucks.

We now can all roll over hand have a cigarette...

I will miss the monster threads and A-hole will have to find a different way to to get to 10000 posts.

It's been a fun ride.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

skylar112 said:


> Well......not everyone knows anything about them, so "good" was all in the eye of the beholder. Secrecy still doesn't make friends .


Good point, skylar112  

I think you will find out,that, in life a little mystery can be a good thing  

A little faith can go a long way ,especially if you are hoping that someone cares enough to do their very best for you in each and everything they do !

You probably already know this, "A Rose by any other name , would still smell just as sweet"



So now that we have seen the inside of the amplifier, do you think it is a nicely designed product that will make your music come alive ?

I bought mine for what they do to the sound, as the going gets tough it's the composure of the amp that is simply sweet to my ears.

I think those who have listened with their "ears" as opposed to jumping to all sorts of various conclusions, decided that these are something that will enhance their enjoyment as they go about there busy lives !


----------



## rimshot (May 17, 2005)

chad said:


> Why? Because the finals are mounted to the top and they use daughterboards?


No because the influence from the 604 is obvious. The only difference I see beside very small changes to the layout is the 4 huge caps and two loosely wound toroids which I usually see in icepower and other class d designs. The powersupply looks beefier but considering these have no protection circuitry I believe the extra pieces were deemed necessary by Zuki. I don't know how someone couldn't clearly see this amp is heavily influenced by the old Soundstream amps, its like a 70% Stream 30% Genesis hybrid. Both amps sound kick ass from my experience and always stood out to me so its no surprise people buying these Zuki's are excited about them. I just feel like some times people need to give credit when credit is due instead of acting like its some all new magical **** when something of similar quality has been available to everyone for over a decade.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Thylantyr said it so succinctly  

quoted from "SQ Secrets Revealed"

thylantyr 
DIYMA Novice


Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: x
Posts: 116 


iTrader: (0)
Amplifier Design - SQ Secrets Revealed 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm inspired by the crazy Zuki threads to show you a twisted view on
audio. You will require concentration to see the meaning of this thread.
My delivery method of explaining things are odd, to allow the reader to think
about it. 

http://www.createforum.com/petereuro...orum=petereuro

Amplifiers are mystery. If nobody has tested it, nobody really knows
what it can do. Taking gut pictures only can reveal so much about
the amplifier.

If you analyze amplifier design, you will see that it's mostly recyled designs
as the core ingredients are the same.

end quote

The difference between, and what separates the so-so ones from the really good ones will always be the "The way it Sounds"


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

You know, what i never understood about the whole thing is that the amps aren't priced through the roof. It would be different if Zuki was trying to make a killing on these things, but he isn't. Are there cheaper amos out there? Sure, but these aren't outrageous or anything.


----------



## rimshot (May 17, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> Amplifiers are mystery. If nobody has tested it, nobody really knows
> what it can do. Taking gut pictures only can reveal so much about
> the amplifier.
> 
> ...



to that I completely agree but when the companies that share this design very closely are all highly revered, obviously they were onto something  

Genesis, Soundstream, Memphis (fultron) and now Zuki all have their place in peoples hearts and that is for good reason. It is a good design. I also think his price for the four channel is quite reasonable and as for the bet on power output after seeing the internals im betting 125-150 watts per channel


----------



## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> http://www.createforum.com/petereuro...orum=petereuro


Link didn't work for me.


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

rimshot said:


> I see many similarities with my rubicon 604........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ding ding ding.........we have a winner!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

autofile said:


> Ding ding ding.........we have a winner!


Why? How? Because it has "stickie up things" and the finals are "upside down"

Look closer.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

chad said:


> Why? How? Because it has "stickie up things" and the finals are "upside down"
> 
> Look closer.


Pics are nice, but I'd still rather have some specs I can compare to other amps. In lieu of that I'd be very interested in a paragraph from chad and any other experts who want to give their impressions of what they are seeing. I for one am too ignorant to really appreciate the implications of "stickie up things", etc.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Rudeboy said:


> Pics are nice, but I'd still rather have some specs I can compare to other amps.


I agree with you 100% there.



Rudeboy said:


> In lieu of that I'd be very interested in a paragraph from chad and any other experts who want to give their impressions of what they are seeing. I for one am too ignorant to really appreciate the implications of "stickie up things", etc.


From what I have seen in every "it's one of these pics" posted, and what I have said in this very thread, one could go to google and have a bunch of answers 

I have seen the inside of this amp before and I did not raise these coments then, Unless I have a scheamtic or the actual amplifier in front of me I'm not writing that paragraph, pics can't tell the whole story but they sure can give you an idea. 

Out of respect for the designer and everyone else here (and the whole car audio community at this point) I would hate to make a single small mistake in the description of how I feel it is designed, but it ain't rocket science. Just like you Don, I prefer to have the cold hard facts before I put MY head on the chopping bock 


Somebody will chime in, at which point I will be more that happy to carry on with the discussion of the design and it's possibilities. Too many are jumping to conclusions now, it will simma daaw and that will be the right time.

Chad


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

chad said:


> Why? How? Because it has "stickie up things" and the finals are "upside down"
> 
> Look closer.


Look closer at what exactly? I see a lot of resemblance (which is why I posted that specific amp in the first place.. I used to own that amp and it was quite nice back in the day, very well built). The chassink design isn't that common to begin with from what I understand (it's harder to build from what I could gather). The layout of the board (where the RCA connections are, power connections, gains, etc.) are very similar layout. I see more areas that seem similar than areas that are not (although if someone had said the Genesis was what it was based on I would have had to disagree like you). 

I would say that the Rubicon design isn't a bad design as far as "inspiration" (hey, I'm not an amp design expert and have no firsthand knowledge of what was involved in the design of the Zuki amp, so I can't draw any conclusions). The Esoteric (and Diamond amps) were designed by the same guy who designed the Art series. He basically took a pretty good design and figured what he could do to make it better. 

Now, without actually taking it apart (and see what the parts are rated at), the discussion here is still sort of at a standstill. Hypothetically, someone could say "I want an amp like this one, but better". Kind of what Ray at Tips can do. Modify it to put out twice the power. So the 75 x 4 amp could be 150 x 4 right off the bat (hypothetically). So without more details (and details that would probably void the warranty even more) its tough to say what the philosophy was when building that amp (if he went with much bigger transistors than that rubicon, that amp would be a monster).

Juan


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

OldOneEye said:


> (although if someone had said the Genesis was what it was based on I would have had to disagree like you).


The genesis is MUCH closer IMHO 



OldOneEye said:


> Now, without actually taking it apart (and see what the parts are rated at), the discussion here is still sort of at a standstill.
> Juan



You are looking WAY too deep into it.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

chad said:


> You are looking WAY too deep into it.


Exactly, it still needs to be tested and measured. Cosmetics are only skin deep.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

I spoke with Ding a few months ago about having them benched, but honestly, never got around to it, plus it costs quite a bit to get sent out. 

I had been heavily implying that if people were interested, I would share more info with them, but every thread resulted in just negativity. 

Lot's of people on here who were interested, had already seen the internals, and I do know that genesis was definitly an influence on the design. 

It is not a direct copy, but does share several similarities. Although, in today's day and age, most all amps do, since the general concept hasn't changed in so long. 

The amp seems to really shine in vocal reproduction, and I would not expect this amp to measure ruler flat in the Fr. I am not sure what was done, but there is definitly a noticeable improvement, much like you find on his cd's as well. 

There have been several discussions as well as to whether stereo seperation can be noticed in a vehicle and to what extent. I have noticed amps with better seperation seem to just image better. (yes it's debatable, but I do not know what other measurement could preclude this). And I think you'll find the same levels as the genesis dual mono in that regard. 

But, that is just pure speculation, and with some of you, it's grounds to be shot on site.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You guys should be proud of yourselves...really accomplished a lot.

But the mob is happy.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

durwood said:


> I think I found the "special part" though


OT, but... did you know you can actually buy Flux Capacitor replicas for about $150? No joke. I think I'm gonna get one and put it under my BttF movie poster. 



Back to the topic... I think showing the pics may have gotten him business. Everyone seems to have jumped on the ship now. 

I'm fine with my setup, and I don't care to buy any amps right now. However, I will say that I've e-mailed Zuki back and forth a bit concerning building a house and he supplied me with literally HUNDREDS of pictures of his house construction and offered to help me out with ideas if I needed them. Based solely on that, I would probably consider him if I were to buy a new amp. To me, aside from "will it do what I want", it's about who you're buying from.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
He figured that would happen, but he really wasn't interested. 

I've never seen him push his amps on anyone, or go anywhere to advertise.

There is just idiots like me who think it's a steal, and wish more people would have gotten in on them.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

backwoods said:


> He figured that would happen, but he really wasn't interested.
> 
> I've never seen him push his amps on anyone, or go anywhere to advertise.
> 
> There is just idiots like me who think it's a steal, and wish more people would have gotten in on them.


Maybe he doesn't want to be mobbed with orders if he really wants it as a side business. It's a ***** when you are a one man show and all of the sudden demand goes up.

I'm not afraid to admit my curiosity got me going on these at one point, but without valid power ratings to go off I could only guess how many amps I needed to power my enitre system. Sure he answered my questions when I asked, but it still did not answer how far open I had to crack my wallet open to power my entire setup...so I went another route.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

backwoods said:


> I've never seen him push his amps on anyone, or go anywhere to advertise.


I did see him start a thread about the 5 channel and for anyone interested to contact him. That, to me, _kind of_ counts. 

My question has always been: does Zuki TELL you guys how it will sound before you listen to it? It's hard to differentiate Zuki Church groupthink from real, honest feedback.

Like it's been said a million times before, since the man himself refuses to comment (even in the most replied to thread in DIYMA history - which is all about him) leads a lot of us to conclude he condones the ******** guys like a$$hole like to propagate. I'd love to see the guy just cherp in and say "Hey, a$$hole maybe chill a bit." But since he doesn't..............


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

chad said:


> The genesis is MUCH closer IMHO


We closely inspected the internals of the Zuki amps investigate these claims of possible infringements. Nope. The Zuki is NOT a copy of our amps.

They are quite close to the older Soundstream design however.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

autofile said:


> We closely inspected the internals of the Zuki amps investigate these claims of possible infringements. Nope. The Zuki is NOT a copy of our amps.
> 
> They are quite close to the older Soundstream design however.


Oh..... so you copied Soundstream ?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

autofile said:


> We closely inspected the internals of the Zuki amps investigate these claims of possible infringements. Nope. The Zuki is NOT a copy of our amps.
> 
> They are quite close to the older Soundstream design however.


Never said it was a copy, I sed it was closer than the soundstream that was _posted_.



thylantyr said:


> Oh..... so you copied Soundstream ?


HEHE.


----------



## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

Wow... 14 pages (30 posts per page) and half of them are "...." from Hic. About as useless as my posts!


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> I did see him start a thread about the 5 channel and for anyone interested to contact him. That, to me, _kind of_ counts.
> 
> My question has always been: does Zuki TELL you guys how it will sound before you listen to it? It's hard to differentiate Zuki Church groupthink from real, honest feedback.
> 
> Like it's been said a million times before, since the man himself refuses to comment (even in the most replied to thread in DIYMA history - which is all about him) leads a lot of us to conclude he condones the ******** guys like a$$hole like to propagate. I'd love to see the guy just cherp in and say "Hey, a$$hole maybe chill a bit." But since he doesn't..............


lawry!


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

Opening the guts only raises more questions.

1. Who designed the amplifier?

2. Is the design legally recycled 100% or partially?

3. Is the design cloned or modded from a reference design, 
but component placement chosen to make it apprear like a Genesis, 
perhaps a Jedi mind trick to sell boards?

4. If the Genesis design was sold and the Zuki PCB layout
just happens to look similar, if I were 'Genesis' I wouldn't
want people to know this because they'd just buy a Zuki
instead. So, this raises the question. Does a company sell
their old design in fear that this may happen ? But on the other hand, 
since the amplifier clone wars exist and designs stolen and recycled
[home, proaudio, car audio], ask John Curl, Nelson Pass, Stephen 
Mantz if their designs have been ripped off. I bet they will say yes 
because two of those already said so. I never asked John.

If you know your design may get ripped off, why not just
sell it ? At least you can make some coin.

If #3 above, if the offshore folks cloned another amplifier and made
the clone available, then the clone would be identical to the Genesis, 
but it's not. This raises another question?

Did the 'Kloner's improve their engineering skills? Instead
of a 100% copy, why not just make a few tweaks to circuit
design to make it appear like a new design? 

*Two things that stick out like a sore thumb for me
and others. *


1. Where is the current sharing transistors in the Zuki
and Genesis 4 channel amp ? Rarely does an amplifier
designer not use current sharing resistors in a production
amplifier, the risk is ver high as this can cause premature
transistor failure. The only transistors that you can get away
with doing this is lateral mosfet transistors, even so, most
designers choose the current sharing transistors to avoid problems.

*Look at the ampguts website, make a list of amplifiers that 
don't have these resistors.* Lets compare notes.

2. Why is theres is many diodes near the output stages?
This is not normal. Usually there is one diode per rail,
it seems like there is one diode per transistor which is in
parallel. Right now, it doesn't make any sense to me why
ths is so, perhaps a sign of designer paranoia ?


Each amplifier designer may leave a 'DNA' trace of circuit design
to reflect their personality. You can see this with Stephen Mantz
designs very easily. 

Those two items seem to point stick out for me as a signature.
I guess we need a schematic or reverse engineer those output stages
to see if what I'm thinking is 100% true.


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> 4. If the Genesis design was sold and the Zuki PCB layout
> just happens to look similar, if I were 'Genesis' I wouldn't
> want people to know this because they'd just buy a Zuki
> instead. So, this raises the question. Does a company sell
> ...



Not sure where this idea was pulled from, but I can assure you that our design has never been sold to anyone.
There is an old saying: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
If (and that is a very big if) Gordon's design has been imitated, it was not done with any sort of permission or licensing from GENESIS.
However is the case under discussion here, the Zuki amplifier, this is NOT a direct copy of a GENESIS (Gordon Taylor design) amplifier. The opinion of Gordon is that the Zuki amps we inspected were of much closer relation (or copy if you prefer) to older Soundstream models than to any of his designs, so we dropped it at that point.


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> *Look at the ampguts website, make a list of amplifiers that
> don't have these resistors.* Lets compare notes.


Just an FYI to all on this forum who look at the GENESIS amplifiers pictured on the ampguts site to draw conclusions, the last time we checked the pictures of our amps on the site are of pretty old models, not of any current designs, so they are most meaningless except for archival purposes.

The DMX is in fact a current model, but the pictures are of one at least 2 revisions old. The Profile 2 Ultra and Profile 4, while current models are also a couple generations old. The rest of the pictures are of pre-turn of the century designs.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

autofile said:


> Just an FYI to all on this forum who look at the GENESIS amplifiers pictured on the ampguts site to draw conclusions, the last time we checked the pictures of our amps on the site are of pretty old models, not of any current designs, so they are most meaningless except for archival purposes.


I don't believe that site has been updated for a very long time. Too bad. Nice idea.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

autofile said:


> Just an FYI to all on this forum who look at the GENESIS amplifiers pictured on the ampguts site to draw conclusions, the last time we checked the pictures of our amps on the site are of pretty old models, not of any current designs, so they are most meaningless except for archival purposes.
> 
> The DMX is in fact a current model, but the pictures are of one at least 2 revisions old. The Profile 2 Ultra and Profile 4, while current models are also a couple generations old. The rest of the pictures are of pre-turn of the century designs.


How about these?



















Not that it will do much by just looking at pictures but I do see different output stages and emitter resistors.



autofile said:


> The opinion of Gordon is that the Zuki amps we inspected were of much closer relation (or copy if you prefer) to older Soundstream models than to any of his designs, so we dropped it at that point.


Did you guys actually have one in hand and did you measure it? I know you have the equipment to measure so surely you were curious to measure it. Or were you just analyzing pictures?


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

*Not sure where this idea was pulled from*

My brain ?    

*but I can assure you that our design has never been sold to anyone.*

ok....

*There is an old saying: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". *

Just like bottled water sold in stores. The not-so recognized brand of bottle water copied a famous brand
like Alhambra. I'm sure they are flattered.  
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*If (and that is a very big if) Gordon's design has been imitated, it was not done with any sort of permission or licensing from GENESIS.*

+

*However is the case under discussion here, the Zuki amplifier, this is NOT a direct copy of a GENESIS (Gordon Taylor design) amplifier.*
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

These two statements are suspicous to me.

_Second sentence you say it's not a direct copy of a Genesis.

First sentence you say "If Gordon's design has been imitated". _

What's the skinny? It's not a direct copy. Of course
you can see the PCB is not 100%, it's 95%.  
The PCB doesn't tell the story that the circuit design is
the same, but it's suspicious.

If the design has been imitated, it can be the same circuit
design as Gordons with some extras. It can be a different
circuit design with similar PCB layout. We don't know
unless we see schematics. 

The PCB layout was a copied idea.

*The opinion of Gordon is that the Zuki amps we inspected were of much closer relation (or copy if you prefer) to older Soundstream models than to any of his designs, so we dropped it at that point.*

This is an interesting revelation. The Zuki amp was a
cyber secret until yesterday. *All of a sudden*,
you were able to inspect a Zuki amplifier instantaneously
and determine that there is no relation to a Genesis design?

How did you accomplish this feat in less than one day?

1. Did you look at those pics posted yesterday ? If yes,
then you don't know the circuit design, it's just a pic.
You can only say it's not a 100% copy. It can be 95%
imitated. You can also argue the design is improved if
the Kloner was skilled in electronics.

2. Did you buy a Zuki previously for inspection ? If yes,
why ? What would give you a clue that this amplifier
needed scrutiny ? Did you feel that it was a copy of a
Genesis previously and already ordered one for deep
evaluation ?

A picture is worth a thousand words. I saw the Zuki
vs. Genesis pictures. Now it's your turn to post a picture of
said Soundstream amp for comparison and your sins will
be forgiven   

This is like the thief who got caught on video tape stealing
and when confronted with the evidence......

"That's not me ...."


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

So, here is the biggest valid point that came out of this whoel thread, and it has nothing to do with the pics...



backwoods said:


> The amp seems to really shine in vocal reproduction, and I would not expect this amp to measure ruler flat in the Fr. I am not sure what was done, but there is definitly a noticeable improvement, much like you find on his cd's as well.


These are FAR from 'reference' amplifiers, ie the next best thing to sliced bread in the car audio world, in that they are not *JUST* amplifiers, they are also modifying the signal for the 'signature' sound... THAT is a HUGE problem, and EXACTLY what I was getting at is that they are not just a 'good amp' in that they MODIFY THE SOUND!!!

I expected this to end up being the end-result of all this a long time ago, and it was pretty transparent that 'Zuki' has his ideas of how things shoudl sound and modifys his CDs and his amplifiers to push that 'agenda'...

They are not just good 'amplifiers' they are actually modifying the sound, much like a tube-amp has a specific 'sound' to it...

That is the key point here and the crux of this... These amps are FAR from something 'everyone' should have, as they are not *reference* units that provide perfect amplification without adding anything... They change things quite a bit and it is obvious that is why his power ratings are what they are as it is low enough not to show his 'signature' at that level and at rated power the THD would end up being quite great and surmized due to his 'special processing'...

People should leave such 'agendas' to a third party device that can add his 'sound' if people like it, These should no longer be referred to as amplifiers, but sound-modifying amplifers... They basically ruin the 'ideal' of amp makers throughout the industry, in that being the direct amplification of an input signal without coloration or adding anything to change the 'sound' of the source signal...

Modified frequency response, added distortions, etc, etc... All signs of something that should have been an add-on and this whole 'Zuki' stupidity finally comes to light as those that have these amps love that certain type of EQing/signal modification that comes from these amps... That is not to say ANYONE ELSE may like them because of that same 'sound', and to try to push these amps as the 'next coming' as you idjits do is just pushing the 'Zuki' agenda of solidifying himself as a 'standard' of sorts that will push his brand to new heights in the marketplace... 

He likes his way, hopes others like it as well, but instead of marketing these things 'reasonably' and exposing what he is doing and why and letting the consumer choose knowing full well that it is not just a 'pure' amplifier, he choose to throw this 'mystique' about his doings around it and 'hoped' others like them jsut as much as he did and misleadingly tried to get others to believe his was jsut a 'better' amplifier and because of his 'better' design you enjoy the sound more... He should have came atraight out and said it is a modified output for a specific 'sound' and it is a crap shoot if you will enjoy it or not...

Again, boils down to pure and utter marketing BS, someone trying to push thier 'listening' 'ideals' upon others and dupe them... No wonder he tries to wualify his customers and he doesn't want someone that isn't of his 'tastes' to buy his amps as they may actually ***** and moan that it changes the sound, which is ovious at this point that it does...

To the 'Zuki'-minions, the emperor has no clothes and your amps are not 'reference' devices... Hope you enjoy the sound because not everyone will... And that is the key, don't go pushing a signal modifier as a 'great amp' for everyone...


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Wow dbphelps...come down and mingle with the ordinary people.

You talk alot about what should and shouldn't be. But have you heard one of these amps? How do you know that the changes are not for the better?


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

dbphelps said:


> To the 'Zuki'-minions, the emperor has no clothes and your amps are not 'reference' devices... Hope you enjoy the sound because not everyone will... And that is the key, don't go pushing a signal modifier as a 'great amp' for everyone...


 
nobody pushed anything on you, and you continually mock and degrade anyone who has tried it. 

You have presented absolutely nothing of relevance to this entire thread, and really have done nothing but brought this to the level of a juvenile forum. 

I also distinctly mentioned in my post other things that could have resulted in the improvement of the sound, and until one is benched, it is merely just speculation, but you continue to look for anything negative to attack on. 

Please, try and be useful and don't attack anything/everything. Everytime information is about to be revealed, or a thread starts making an improvement, you jump in.


----------



## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

autofile said:


> Not sure where this idea was pulled from, but I can assure you that our design has never been sold to anyone.
> There is an old saying: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
> If (and that is a very big if) Gordon's design has been imitated, it was not done with any sort of permission or licensing from GENESIS.
> However is the case under discussion here, the Zuki amplifier, this is NOT a direct copy of a GENESIS (Gordon Taylor design) amplifier. The opinion of Gordon is that the Zuki amps we inspected were of much closer relation (or copy if you prefer) to older Soundstream models than to any of his designs, so we dropped it at that point.



I haven't read any of the other posts, so forgive me if I'm sounding repetitious. Very similar to original Soundstream Reference series but with a much better power supply. 30V rails for about 75W x 4 into 4 ohms. No emitter resistors is a questionable practice unless the outputs are very closely matched. I don't see a true balanced diff amp like Soundstream - just a single LTP driving a conventional VA. No problems there... TL074 in the filter section? Oh my. Not terrible...but not quite the audiophile, either.

I bet it sounds great and distances itself well from the average car amp. It's probably among the better ones out there.  Interestingly, it is a very, very similar design to one I was working on (in my pre-S.O. Class D days). I guess I don't have to make my car amps now.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

thylantyr said:


> 1. Did you look at those pics posted yesterday ? If yes,
> then you don't know the circuit design, it's just a pic.
> You can only say it's not a 100% copy. It can be 95%
> imitated. You can also argue the design is improved if
> ...


 
I had spoken with Peter about it, several months ago, and even at that time, he had already been made aware of the possibility. They looked into it, and decided it wasn't a similar enough copy to warrant any type of reply. 

Additionally, Genesis took the high rode, just as they had done in the past, and continued with their line, instead of creating another rucus, like several are attempting at this point. Why would Peter lower himself to go after a guy, in a semi-trivial way, who is never gonna steal a customer from him in the first place?


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

*These are FAR from 'reference' amplifiers, ie the next best thing to sliced bread in the car audio world, in that they are not *JUST* amplifiers, they are also modifying the signal for the 'signature' sound... THAT is a HUGE problem, and EXACTLY what I was getting at is that they are not just a 'good amp' in that they MODIFY THE SOUND!!! *

Yawn .........  

These claims are not valid because the amplifier doesn't
have a $10,000 price tag ..............  

You can't make those silly audiophile claims for a $400
amplifier, don't you know the rules of high end marketing  

*I expected this to end up being the end-result of all this a long time ago, and it was pretty transparent that 'Zuki' has his ideas of how things shoudl sound and modifys his CDs and his amplifiers to push that 'agenda'...
*

Zuki can modify? Have him come here and post his circuit
design thoughts.


*They are not just good 'amplifiers' they are actually modifying the sound, much like a tube-amp has a specific 'sound' to it... *

Tube amplifiers have a sound when driven into distortion
because those amplifiers clip different than solid state.

This lead to the discovery that if you combine this distortion with an electric guitar, the guitar player can create some neat sound effects. While good for guitar players, it's not good for playback. You have to operate
the tube amplifier in it's linear region otherwise you will
be distorting the sound. Is this what you want ?


*They change things quite a bit and it is obvious that is why his power ratings are what they are as it is low enough not to show his 'signature' at that level and at rated power the THD would end up being quite great and surmized due to his 'special processing'... *

Power ratings are useless. Zuki can rate this amp for 20000watts, all it would do is create interesting conversion. The
same is true when you rate the amp for 5 watts, interesting
conversation.

Rate this amplifier near it's real operating power and there
is nothing to talk about.  

Measure the amp on a test bench, mystery solved.


----------



## Sex Cells (Jul 21, 2007)

Have the pictures of said internals been released yet? Or are we still in the pre-game?


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

backwoods said:


> I had spoken with Peter about it, several months ago, and even at that time, he had already been made aware of the possibility. They looked into it, and decided it wasn't a similar enough copy to warrant any type of reply.


You still don't see my point. What event created this
perception that a Zuki can be a Genesis?

You introduce a random amplifier to the market, right away
you suspect that it can be a Genesis? I want to know what
made people think this before they looked at the guts?

Why not Fosgate 
Why not Zapco
Why not all the other vendors?

What clues were used to figure this out and raise suspicion ?


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

Sex Cells said:


> Have the pictures of said internals been released yet? Or are we still in the pre-game?



http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32445&page=34


----------



## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> Wow dbphelps...come down and mingle with the ordinary people.
> 
> You talk alot about what should and shouldn't be. But have you heard one of these amps? How do you know that the changes are not for the better?


Both of you have valid points. From my viewpoint, Zuki isn't pushing a junk amplifier with snake oil but neither is he being transparent (for whatever reason) about the amplifiers capabilities - or even FR changes. Maybe he is trying to find another angle to market his amplifiers upon seeing that nobody would take notice of "yet another" car amplifier on the market. He certainly did this with his power ratings which are not misleading, just incomplete IMO. So, maybe he modifies the FR - Rockford Fosgate has/had done it for years on their Punch amps.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

A little bird said that certain woofers were causing a Zuki
amp to blow up?

If true, I know why now 

.. plus some early comments that the amplifier has no protection circuits.

This is misleading to the end user. There is a different between having no protection
circuits and having proper circuit design.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

If you want to pursue a 'show no mercy' discussion about
this topic, I have an on going thread here. Only the brave
can stomach that aggressive forum 

http://www.createforum.com/petereuro/viewtopic.php?t=461&mforum=petereuro


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> You still don't see my point. What event created this
> perception that a Zuki can be a Genesis?
> 
> You introduce a random amplifier to the market, right away
> ...


What drew our attention was all of the silly internet skuttlebut and "Internet experts speculation" going on over the past several months on forums such as this one. 

The speculation on this subject is not something that as you state above "The Zuki amp was a cyber secret until yesterday. All of a sudden, you were able to inspect a Zuki amplifier instantaneously and determine that there is no relation to a Genesis design?". It is actually old news by internet age standards, and this is hardly the only thread online on the subject, nor is this the only forum where it has been discussed.

In answer to your questions: Yes we had the amplifiers in our hands, we did not simply look at pictures as has been happening by nearly everyone involved in this conversation to this point, which by the way is mostly the cause of all this hubbub in the first place.

As far as performance testing them, we were prepared to do this, however after closely inspecting the units, we found no reason to do so because we found that the online assertions that the Zuki was somehow related to our products was entirely ludicrous, thus we have no interest in finding out anything more about them.

As for your suspicions about my statements in my previous post, you are apparently not comprehending my statements as intended, so allow me to clarify for your benefit:

"If (and that is a very big if) Gordon's design has been imitated, it was not done with any sort of permission or licensing from GENESIS."

In this statement I am referring to any other manupackagers <borrowing, stealing or whatever you prefer to call it> one of our designs.

and:

"However is the case under discussion here, the Zuki amplifier, this is NOT a direct copy of a GENESIS (Gordon Taylor design) amplifier."

In this statement I am referring specifically to the Zuki stuff under discussion here.

I hope this information helps to clear things up for you a little bit. And I hope that it will put an end to this silliness as far as GENESIS is concerned.


----------



## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

dbphelps said:


> So, here is the biggest valid point that came out of this whoel thread, and it has nothing to do with the pics...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm uncertain why you seem to have so much invested in those whole thing, dbphelps, but it's your choice... whatever.

What I won't abide is your negativity... all the assumptions, insinuations, character assassination, inferences, insults, and whatever other garbage you're spewing. All of this, seemingly, about a person you don't know and a product you're never even tried.  

You seem so bent on showing the forum how you've been on top of this thing all along... it's all been utterly "transparent" to *you*. How you've got the drop on all the rest of us. And, yet, you've shown us *nothing*. Nothing, that is, that could even remotely be construed as informational. And, most certainly nothing that could be considered a positive addition to this thread.

Seriously, unless you've got some facts to back up these little theories of yours you keep running up the flag pole, I really wish you'd just be quiet. Or, at the very least, behave more responsibly. Please.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

dbphelps said:


> These are FAR from 'reference' amplifiers, ie the next best thing to sliced bread in the car audio world, in that they are not *JUST* amplifiers, they are also modifying the signal for the 'signature' sound... THAT is a HUGE problem, and EXACTLY what I was getting at is that they are not just a 'good amp' in that they MODIFY THE SOUND!!!
> 
> I expected this to end up being the end-result of all this a long time ago, and it was pretty transparent that 'Zuki' has his ideas of how things shoudl sound and modifys his CDs and his amplifiers to push that 'agenda'...


Since I seldom get to put myself forward as a reasonable voice and, as far as I know, have never had the opportunity to quote myself, here goes, from earlier in this thread:



Rudeboy said:


> So what are the possibilities? Either these amps are distorting in a way that people find pleasing or they are not only producing more than advertised power, but producing more power than people are accustomed to seeing in packages like these. More "headroom" lets the system get louder without distortion - which always sounds better to me.


There's no reason to suspect that people who are happy with these are being dishonest. We don't have anything like enough information to prove your theory and my first option. Just because Zuki is doing something different doesn't mean he is doing something wrong. Even if he is doing something wrong, doesn't mean he is doing it maliciously. 

We're a long way from being able to draw any conclusions. Claiming to know from the beginning how this was going to turn out doesn't exactly bolster your credentials as a disinterested observer.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

As you global negative feedback drops so does your damping factor. A few other things happen too, like increased distortion profile.

You can't look at component choice and board layout to determine those kinds of things.

I wouldn't think the idle current would be too awfully high. But the amps aren't class A or near class A if that is what you are asking about.

Ray at TIPS IS for all practical purpose Linear Power. He has the schematics and knows the designers (who he still remains in contact with), and they have updated/changed/improved somethings on the amps that couldn't have/ or weren't done during production. The amps were meant for mass market, and such, there were (as nearly always) some compromises made to do so.

I think Zuki wanted a nice amp, something that sounded good, looked good, had good form factor, and priced really reasonable. And he wanted to remain small. I mean he could have given the amps away and people would still be bitching about it. I really believe that some people on this forum loose touch with reality at times.

So what if it doesn't have a ruler flat FR graph. So what if it doesn't measure among the greatest. Who cares? The people buying the amps and his target market probably really do not care about those things. They would be more concerned with how the amp actually sounds, looks, and costs. The measurements just aren't that important to them...and contrary to what many people like to think, it's not that important to a lot of people.

Let this be, damn.

Anyone who had any possible commercial interest in this has let it be.

The only witch hunt is the one created here.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

autofile said:


> What drew our attention was all of the silly internet skuttlebut and "Internet experts speculation" going on over the past several months on forums such as this one.


I still want to understand how these people in cyber
concluded that it could be a Genesis? Were they so lucky,
then low and behold, guts are revelead and it looks like one
to the naked eye.

Do you see my angle ? If these silly internet experts are
really silly, what are the odds that they threw a dart
and it landed right on that amplifier brand ? 

Strange if you axe me


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> I still want to understand how these people in cyber
> concluded that it could be a Genesis? Were they so lucky,
> then low and behold, guts are revelead and it looks like one
> to the naked eye.
> ...


Well, that IS kind of my point isn't it?

So here is my theory and admittedly this will sound incredibly pompous, conceited and I am sure you'll all roast me to hell and back for uttering the words, but what the hell:

The exterior cosmetics of the Zuki has some generic resemblance to our Series 3 models, (this is much the same as the cosmetic similarity between another popular brand and ours and has been discussed ad nauseum already) so to a casual observer, or a wishful thinker it might APPEAR to be a copy of one of our amps. 
And to further complicate matters, the company making the "similar product" tries to foster an air of mystery about their product, it can tend to stimulate rampant speculation.
(here is the pompous part) GENESIS products are pretty well respected around the world as being among the finest available. We are pretty well established as an audiophile caliber product.
I guess some casual observer thought that, "hey that amp looks just like a GENESIS, and if they look alike, they must be alike" and then came up with the idea that it would be so cool to be able to get a GENESIS product for flea market prices, (everybody wishes they could get something for nothing after all) There is no one from the "similar product" company making an effort to distance themselves from the idea and thus allowing the idea to spread, it does serve this other company to some extent, by having their product associated with an established well respected brand after all, even if it is in fact purely fictitious.
Flame away friends......


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

Jill Scott sounded amzing on the way to work this morning.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

autofile said:


> Well, that IS kind of my point isn't it?
> 
> So here is my theory and admittedly this will sound incredibly pompous, conceited and I am sure you'll all roast me to hell and back for uttering the words, but what the hell:
> 
> ...



I understand now.

I'm also speculating that the Genesis core design was copied 
plus more stuff added. They copied something unique from
the Genesis that is very rarely done and that is how I made the link.

It's still not proof.

The only way to know for sure is two buy both products
and reverse engineer it. Very easy to do


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

so now they're not "magical" anymore. but instead they are a processor of sorts. that amplify a "special" sort of sound. wow.


----------



## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

jj_diamond said:


> so now they're not "magical" anymore. but instead they are a processor of sorts. that amplify a "special" sort of sound. wow.


X 2000


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

jj_diamond said:


> Jill Scott sounded amzing on the way to work this morning.


Is it me or are most of your posts in this thread of no value .. 

How about the namecalling posts .. 



jj_diamond said:


> so now they're not "magical" anymore. but instead they are a processor of sorts. that amplify a "special" sort of sound. wow.


They were never 'magical' to start with except for those who claimed them to be God's gift to car amps .. a good sounding amp is a good sounding amp. It's mostly physics & regurgitation.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

cajunner, sorry, that whole reply wasn't aimed at you.


----------



## AUr6 (Apr 10, 2007)

If nothing else, this long thread definitely illistrates who's worth having a discussion with, and whose opinions I will respect in the future. I could care less which side of the fence you're on. I have no stake in the matter. A bunch of pictures mean nothing to me. There's no real point in discussing people's points of those whose opinions mean nothing, because they aren't open minded enough to be reasonable just because they disagree with a design/marketing implementation. 

Why are some so obsessed with labeling someone a liar/snake-oil dealer just because they don't answer your questions to satisfaction or do things the way you want them done? Why such negativity and personal hatred towards someone you don't even know or haven't talked to? Why is someone's over zealous endorsement of a product such a flagrant foul to you? Why can't it just be taken with whatever weight you deem reasonable and move on?

Why are some people with no involvement or investment in Zuki feeling so personally involved or offended in some way that they resort to personal attacks? I don't get it. I hope you don't treat those close to you like that. You probably do, but won't admit it, because that would be too open-minded. 

Oh, and just because yesterday was the first time you got to see the inside of the amp doesn't mean others haven't seen it long before then. They just smile knowingly, and go on about their merry way. 

//rant


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

AUr6 said:


> Why are some so obsessed with labeling *someone *a liar/snake-oil dealer just because they don't answer your questions to satisfaction or do things the way you want them done? Why such negativity and personal hatred towards *someone *you don't even know or haven't talked to? Why is someone's over zealous endorsement of a product such a flagrant foul to you? Why can't it just be taken with whatever weight you deem reasonable and move on?


That *someone* is a select group of over-enthusiastic fanboys that have been needlessly propagating sonic superiority and auditory bliss on this forum for a long time now. The King Pin likes to spout of random senseless drivel and then go back and .... it.  

Why is this a problem? You're kidding right? 

Why can't it be taken with whatever weight that's reasonable? Because there is no substance. Until a few pics came out, bassfromspace was probably them most accurate: the damn Mason's are all on little itty bitty bikes making all those sonic jewls one watt at a time. 

At this point in time, I have a lot of respect for backwoods, finebar, fredridge, and a couple of other guys for being diplomatic with the product. It's these other superfans that are straight RUINING it for Zuki. 

Again, where does the legitimate excitement for a product begin and the mind-numbing propaganda leave off. Is Zuki sitting behind his computer telling them say such things. He never posts, so you gotta wonder. 

At the end of the day, I'm not going to buy a Zuki amp because of all this garbage. Too bad.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

I am very guilty of giving the overly glowing review, and have mentioned many times that there was a reason.

The reason was, as I have been stating in MANY threads, that these amps are a steal at that price point and I was hoping to get more into it without betraying zuki and his request to not open it up or to publish specs. 

I was in a catch-22 and really wanted to pass along the deal. Have you noticed very few have posted what they have paid on the amps as well? It's not because he gave stuff away to get good representation, but because he has been very helpful and also worked on package deals if he felt that his amp did not have the needed power for your system.

Yes, many will argue that it's not his decision, but how often have you had a manufacturer cut you a discount, because he felt his amp could not power your entire system?

No one ever talks about his subs either. And, I haven't tried them out yet, but if you want specs, you'll have to contact the buildhouse, because he doesn't have any.

There are many types of people in audio, some that purchase purely on brand name or price, and others that get so caught up in specs, they forget that the main purpose of this entire hobby is to end up with a sound you enjoy.

When he first started selling these amps, I was too eager to not jump in. Same has happened MANY times in this hobby. And I don't regret it.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

OgreDave said:


> Is it me or are most of your posts in this thread of no value ..
> 
> How about the namecalling posts ..
> 
> ...


i will try to be more polite when name calling like all the others do. will that please you, your highness?


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

edit: I was having fun and on second thought shouldn't be stirring the pot:blush:


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> That *someone* is a select group of over-enthusiastic fanboys that have been needlessly propagating sonic superiority and auditory bliss on this forum for a long time now. The King Pin likes to spout of random senseless drivel and then go back and .... it.
> 
> Why is this a problem? You're kidding right?
> 
> ...


no one cares what you buy or don't buy. it doesn't matter who you respect when you talk crap about something you've never heard. you don't get respect. you wonder some ****ed up cynical **** little buddy. is that what you and your buddies do? sit around and talk **** about everyone? shure looks like it. when do you stop being a total *donkey pic* ? go talk **** about this forum on ECA. 

the ignore funtion is in your user cp. oh wait you're probably to scared to miss reading posts about you. guess what? no one posts about you. use it, it works.


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

jj_diamond said:


> i will try to be more polite when name calling like all the others do. will that please you, your highness?


Yes minion, b/c 'my amp sounds better than yours'.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

jj_diamond said:


> no one cares what you buy or don't buy. it doesn't matter who you respect when you talk crap about something you've never heard. you don't get respect. you wonder some ****ed up cynical **** little buddy. is that what you and your buddies do? sit around and talk **** about everyone? shure looks like it. when do you stop being a total *donkey pic* ? go talk **** about this forum on ECA.
> 
> the ignore funtion is in your user cp. oh wait you're probably to scared to miss reading posts about you. guess what? no one posts about you. use it, it works.


Does this mean we can't be friends?  

Zuki sonic nirvana: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SR-qT750Ndg&feature=related


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

WTF are you talking about dude? I haven't seen anyone, especially FoxPro Talking crap about the amps at all, just about the secrecy and the Zuki Army, which honestly should be discussed as it sounds like some of you (not all of the Zuki lovers) are turning into the next eD cult.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

OgreDave said:


> Yes minion, b/c 'my amp sounds better than yours'.


to you. thats awesome!  now go and play your WoW game.  

find me the post that i say my amp sounds better than anyone else's amp. please. amuze me.     and not the post where i compare my amp to another amp *I owned and listened to*.


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

fredridge said:


> edit: I was having fun and on second thought shouldn't be stirring the pot:blush:


Nah, you're pre edit post was funny. I got a kick out of it and if anyone took it as stirring the pot they are way too sensitive


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

jj_diamond said:


> to you. thats awesome!  now go and play your WoW game.
> 
> find me the post that i say my amp sounds better than anyone else's amp. please. amuze me.     and not the post where i compare my amp to another amp *I owned and listened to*.



Sure, find me the post where I said I was your Royal Highness first ..  You can't even handle your own level of reasoning.

And hmmm my handle has been OgreDave since 1999/2000 .. did WoW even exist then? I've never played it even once ..


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

The irony in all of this is there are probably worse amps that cost more money that nobody is jumping up and down about. Heck, for me I thought Audiobahn ran an incredible racket considering what they sold the stuff for compared to how it performed relative to some other guys.

Juan


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

Juan,

If you had touted Audiobahn as heaven or whatever the hell that review thread said, I'm sure we'd be jumping up and down about it. Better yet, if you had touted some unknown amp that refuses to show guts, list spects, and claims 5w of rated power .. you can bet ppl on here would be chiming in.


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

cajunner said:


> backwoods:
> 
> I think I actually like the sound of 95% of the products I have bought, depending on what's being played... and I've bought a lot of different things.
> 
> ...



Just a thought, your system might not be resolving all the details. Some people's ears are easier to please than others. It also can also be the combination of both.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

OgreDave said:


> Sure, find me the post where I said I was your Royal Highness first ..  You can't even handle your own level of reasoning.
> 
> And hmmm my handle has been OgreDave since 1999/2000 .. did WoW even exist then? I've never played it even once ..


if you say so Mr. 2000.  



OgreDave said:


> Is it me or are most of your posts in this thread of no value


me, as in you being the key word in that post. now find my post you speak of.....oh wait you can't. because you take things out of context. and say things that don't make sense but try to belittle me about my reasoning and posts. nice!  

btw, it says 2005 under your name, not 2000. might wanna crunch some numbers there, guy.


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

No, it's not just him that finds your posts somewhat pointless 

And there are forums that have been around before DIYMA so it's quite possible he's been using the same username before...like mine that has been around since '95 when I got AOL.

Anyways, back on topic. I'd love to see some bench testing of these amps now. They seem a bit too big for me to run in my application but in a larger car they might work.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

Daishi said:


> No, it's not just him that finds your posts somewhat pointless
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i'm glad you feel better about yourself now also.


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

cajunner said:


> but what you are indirectly saying is that unless you start with the highest possible signal integrity, you cannot end up with what amounts to a worthy contribution in sound quality threads....
> 
> So I guess anyone who isn't running a Sound Monitor or DCZT-1A or DEXP or wait a minute, just what is the purest...
> 
> and with that I've officially gone off thread, hahahaha...


No, I just pointing out a couple of possiblities. The SQ subjective is way more complex and very vague.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

FoxPro5 said:


> Does this mean we can't be friends?
> 
> Zuki sonic nirvana: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SR-qT750Ndg&feature=related


LMAO.

Zuki was in the middle.


----------



## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

I am reading this whole thread ... and it is retarted... I e-mailed Pat from Zuki... seems like a top shelf stand up guy to deal with.... if he simply asks not to open the amp to publish the internals... then just be a gentleman and honor his asking and don't do it!... simple as that. You have a great amp here from what is being reviewed.... leave it alone.


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

jj_diamond said:


> if you say so Mr. 2000.
> 
> me, as in you being the key word in that post. now find my post you speak of.....oh wait you can't. because you take things out of context. and say things that don't make sense but try to belittle me about my reasoning and posts. nice!
> 
> btw, it says 2005 under your name, not 2000. might wanna crunch some numbers there, guy.


And how does Jill Scott sounding in your car relate to this? Unless your car is dampened to high hell and back, quite a few amps will sound 'good' (read - the same/similar) in a moving car.

Why would I find a post when I was being *SARCASTIC*? You use sarcasm in over half your own posts but can't recognize it when you see it? I even gave the visual rolleyes clue.

And hrm .. considering I've been doing BBS's since 2400 8N1 days .. sure buddy. You have no idea.

Here's one, I can't crunch the numbers .. does 2000 = 2000?  
http://forums.maxima.org/member.php?u=136
Join Date: 08-21-2000

I was on it's predecessor too. And a few before that. But hey, I can't even do math, let alone use PCBoard, WWIV, Telegard, Renegade, Syncronet, or any of that bs.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

...right. thank you for explaining my posts to me, oh higher one.

are you serious? but i'm the one with issues. check yourself homie.


----------



## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

What exactly is '*revieled*' ?


----------



## anjing (Apr 24, 2007)

durwood said:


> This is not new info. You guys let marketing sucker you in. Handmade/Hand assembled...who cares. Class A/B is old-designs are recyceld and cloned over and over and over and over (keep riding that merry go round). Nothing new. As long as the factory has good quality control, it doesn't matter.
> 
> /end of story
> 
> ...


That's exactly my point.
It sounds like Zuki amp is nothing more than good old Recycled-clone class ab with different packaging.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Honestly, it could be argued that a majority of amps today could trace their history back to a couple amps from the 70s. There have been really few "new" amp designs for the car in the last 30 years.



anjing said:


> That's exactly my point.
> It sounds like Zuki amp is nothing more than good old Recycled-clone class ab with different packaging.


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

anjing said:


> That's exactly my point.
> It sounds like Zuki amp is nothing more than good old Recycled-clone class ab with different packaging.


And, the 'special-circuitry' that modifies the sound to be SOOO much better than any other amp out there...

Sorry, give me a transparent amplifier that does just that, amplify, without any special-sauce or anything else...

The recording artist expected you to listen to a track the way it was recorded... It comes down to how well your system can reproduce the original frequecies accurately...

Now my Zed Audio Draconia (w/burr-brown upgrade) and Duece (w/burr-brown upgrade) both reproduce the input signal without 'coloration', frequency response changes, or anything else to change the input signal, thus I know exactly what I am getting out of them, that being the pure input signal amplified... All my requirements are is to keep the gain below clipping and to feed them a pure signal (which is handled nicely by a pre-F1-Status CDA-7949 and PXA-H600 combo that I would gladly put up against any other 'reference' source unit)...

What *I* get out is a known... A pure output... Nothing 'mysterious'... Nothing 'special'... Just pure output from an amplifier that has great specs that result in a reference-standard output... All from a manufacturer that blatently posts his specs, posts pics of the internals, goes into detail to educate the masses about not only amplifiers, but a lot of the 'voodoo' surrounding electronics, and IMHO is one of the top driving forces to 'pure' audio...

Now, I have a ton of 'budget' amps as well, as well as Alpines, Protons (there is a name few have heard in the car audio market), hell even Bazooka (thier $26 each 300watt sub amps are an awesome bang-for-the-buck amp that works flawlessly on a Boston Pro 12.5LF), and honestly, almost ANYONE would be hard pressed to tell the difference between any of the same-power-range amps in any setup if they are installed and configured properly... Personally I choose amps based upon my own background and knowing that they are truely 'transparent' devices that do what they are expected without adding anything... Hell, I sold a few Rockford Fosgates over the years because I didn't like the fact that they 'colored' the signal...

Key point here is, can the amp do it's basic job, and that is provide a given *SPECIFIED* power output into a given load with enough control over the driver it is driving to satisfactorally provide an expected sonic output... That is also the rub with the Zukis, as per others inputs, they add to the sonic output...

Honestly, if you said a 75x4 @ 4 ohm amp was a 'good' price at $405, I would argue you are over-paying... If you say a 150x4 @ 4 ohm at $405 was a 'good' price, I would say *maybe*...

End result is, I wouldn't pay $100 for a 'Zuki' amp if it added ANYTHING to the signal that was not an exact amplified duplicate of the input... End of subject...

The key here is that most of the 'Zuki'-faithful have paid opinions (as expressed by Backwoods and others that they got a great 'deal' on thier amps), are over-zealous in thier ramblings, are non-factual based subjective feedback and in general are 'cultish' in thier paid-for marketing tactics...

If 'Zuki' himself was an upstanding producer of a quality product he, himself, would provide all the specs, the technical background, the in-depth information and foremost would be the first to post in ANY thread regarding his product... He is completely absent, lets others ramble and push his agenda, creates a farce of a 'marketing scheme', and in general is so far from as 'savvy' as his 'followers' try to make him out to be that it is laughable...

My whole 'issue' is with someone that is trying to be 'slick' to suck people in and make money off people without properly doing business is a joke... Key here is no-one knows how much 'Zuki' pays for his product from the manufacturer and for all we know his $405 amp is all of $101.25 in cost, so he is making 4x that in profit, especially playing the games he is??? Screw that... I am so sick of others saying that he is 'taking care of them' and 'giving them such a deal'... Don't say that unless you know his cost... Without that you can damn well be certain he is making his money off the product, plain and simple... So no 'credit' nor 'credibility' is owed, as money changes hands and in the end you bought something and someone made some money...

I wouldn't have an issue if he, himself, did all the manufacturing, but he doesn't, he is a marketer, plain and simple...

You 'cultish' idiots are mostly to blame for all of this by furthering his agenda and making it seem like it was 'cool' to be part of the 'in-Zuki-crowd'... You don't see anyone that likes Zed Audio amps to be acting the same way, you don't see people that like Brax acting the same way, you don't see people that like any number of other high-end brands acting the same way, do you??? (Now, I must point out that some brands HAVE had the same kind of stupidity, of those the most noteable being Elemental Designs, along with TRU, Genesis, Linear Power, which is a farce, and even DLS amplifiers, all of which people have acted like they are the second-coming or some-such, which is just as annoying, but no-where near as 'insane' as this 'Zuki' stupidity has been)...

If people would have said they liked the 'Zuki' amplifiers, that was fine, but posting as many threads, touting them as 'special' and furthering the 'mystique' like it was an exclusive 'members-only' club went beyond just informative into the realm of stupidity... THAT is why there is such backlash and that is why this has propegated so far and so long...

I think all of you 'Zuki'-supporters forget that the ENTIRE audio thing is COMPLETELY subjective... And with that comes all the elitism, stupidity and general manipulation that society has to offer... DIYMA was a crowned jewel to cut through the BS and be OBJECTIVE... Zuki has done nothing by skirt any sort of OBJECTIVE analysis and firmly went against EVERYTHING DIYMA was founded for, thus the strong backlash and tear-down on every level, and in every aspect...

Key is, he didn't try to inform and help the hobby... He is out to make a buck and scam, scheme and further his own agenda in doing just that... Plain and simple... My contention, do it honestly, do it with dignity, and be forthecoming and NO-ONE can hold anything against you... He has just done the opposite and gets the opposite in return... See how simple that is?


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> What exactly is '*revieled*' ?


revealed? :blush:


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

BLAH,BLah,BLah why is Patrick being blamed for not being apart of this very thread? Is it his fault others argue his amplifiers ability to sound amazing? If I wanted to argue Hitler was a people person or that Bush is knowleggable that is just my opinion. I think Alot of this is getting somewhat out of hand, and toi blame Patrick about his "marketing" is crazy, has he even said " guys, I am doing this to market may amplifier!?" I have not read it.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

g and h are variations on a/b

Balanced is just the preamp inputs.

Tubes? Tubes in a car came along before transistors...back when you could get an optional record player for your car.

The rest are random terms with really no meaning.

Any amp that doesn't have discrete components would have the amp on a chip.

Any amp that is being run on a DC supply has some sort of DC-DC converter. You have to step the DC up to a high enough voltage to run all of your devices and to provide amplification. 

Power Guard is McIntosh's protection circuit...not much to do with amp topologies. 

There are some varieties yeah, but it isn't as diverse as what most people would think. 



cajunner said:


> class d/g/h/a/ab/b/t....
> 
> tracking
> 
> ...


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You are going to talk about those amps being reference material and your playback system has a mediocre 10 year old processor in front of it?

Then go on to say Linear Power is a farce?

You have budget amps too? I thought the Zed amps were "budget" amps. You have got to be one of the larger cheapskates on this forum if you think $400 is too much money for a good 75x4 amp.

Why do you care that he didn't or doesn't post specs to his amps? You wouldn't buy one if he did.

Then here you go again with the alteration of tone. Dump that processor and get some transparent and reevaluate where you are coming from. 

Tell me where Zuki himself has tried to swindle ANYONE. He has not gone out and solicited people to buy his amp, they have gone to him!

And the whole thing about you wouldn't pay $400 for an amp that cost $100 in parts...please. You are a truly ignorant person when it comes to understanding manufacturing and how businesses work. Let me guess, you don't go out to eat a restaurant either...or buy CDs...shoes...clothes...or anything for that matter.

Then to further illustrate what I mean by you being ignorant is the point about no credit b/c he didn't do all of the engineering and is just a marketer. 

The real key is you are ignorant, and want to try to bust someone's balls...when that person really has done nothing wrong, nothing other than do something differently than you would seem fit. I see how simple it is b/c you are exemplifying the very thing you are trying to lay Zuki out with....you are just trying to ramrod your own personal agenda down everyone's throats. 




dbphelps said:


> And, the 'special-circuitry' that modifies the sound to be SOOO much better than any other amp out there...
> 
> Sorry, give me a transparent amplifier that does just that, amplify, without any special-sauce or anything else...
> 
> ...


----------



## LastResort (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm with thehatedguy on this, With a solid academic background knowledge, a senior level engineering student could build a basic amplifier from first principles, given enough time. An Junior level student could probably reverse engineer an amp with some assistance. Hell, The DC/DC converter is probably more technically advanced that the gain circuits in most A/B amps these days.


Don't get me wrong, I still think the marketing and loyalty is bizzare. Especially when people are avoiding the discussion of technical merits on a DIY forum.


----------



## alius123 (Jun 22, 2006)

ughh...I tried to be as polite as I can on here, but dbphelps...seriously??? All you do is say very emotional and irrational things on here putting down anyone that happens to own a zuki and Patrick himself. You seem not to get it through your head that I don't have ANY affiliation to Patrick. Stop making false accusations and putting words in all our mouths saying we were paid and that zuki did this or that. Nice words about ZED, are you part of the ZED cult?? They give no coloration?? How do you know?? Im sure they are great  
I have seen many over the top bonner threads on this forum, just not to this extent just because of the specs. I personally found the RS180 to be really overhyped. If I recall someone related it to the seas. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Oh, and we don't need to hear any other conspiracy theories


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I mean people are speculating about this and that over seeing a picture of the insides...****, if you are really concerned about specs, do some basic measuring- car battery, some large power resistors or a subwoofer, test tones, and a clamp meter.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

*Intermission - 50 pages cometh *

Get a beer
Get popcorn

Read;
http://www.createforum.com/petereuro/viewtopic.php?p=3814&mforum=petereuro#3814


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> What exactly is '*revieled*' ?


Cross between revealed and reviled.


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

thylantyr said:


> *Intermission - 50 pages cometh *
> 
> Get a beer
> Get popcorn
> ...


You gotta go turn off your "noob" settings dude  You can set it to 40 posts per page...makes it MUCH easier to read this trainwreck.


----------



## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

Daishi said:


> You gotta go turn off your "noob" settings dude  You can set it to 40 posts per page...makes it MUCH easier to read this trainwreck.


Thanks!


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

> Now my Zed Audio Draconia (w/burr-brown upgrade) and Duece (w/burr-brown upgrade) both reproduce the input signal without 'coloration', frequency response changes, or anything else to change the input signal, thus I know exactly what I am getting out of them, that being the pure input signal amplified... All my requirements are is to keep the gain below clipping and to feed them a pure signal (which is handled nicely by a pre-F1-Status CDA-7949 and PXA-H600 combo that I would gladly put up against any other 'reference' source unit)...


lmao, I would have bet my house that you would have stated how virgin clean your zed amps are and I'm glad you splurged on the burr brown upgrades!

Now why did you decide they were important? And also, seems to me you spent alot on those amps...

And, as far as your h600 combo...well...I'm glad they work for you.


Just when I thought you couldn't get anymore rediculous...



Now, can we TRY TO ATTEMPT to get this thread back to something useful?


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

backwoods said:


> Now why did you decide they were important? And also, seems to me you spent alot on those amps...


No, actually, for what you get I spent a very reasonable amount, as I knew what I was getting beforehand, as Stephen posts ALL the specs (which were independently verified to actually be at, or well above Stephens posted specs, so it performs even BETTER than stated), so it is a KNOWN reference amplifier, and he even went as far as to post pics of the internals (shock, gasp) himself to show the superior build quality and attention to layout and detail... Zed is so far on the opposite side of the spectrum from Zuki in all regards...

Oh, and hmmm, the Draconia was just slightly more than the Zuki low-end 4-channel, so no, not much more for a KNOWN GOOD solution that isn't surrounded with stupidity and ignorance the way Zuki is...



backwoods said:


> And, as far as your h600 combo...well...I'm glad they work for you.


Yep, heads and shoulders above most other setups... The 7949/H600 was the pre-F1 Status top-end competition combo, too bad many morons didn't know how to use the processor effectively, but even without DSP functions active it is a fantastically clean source setup...



backwoods said:


> Just when I thought you couldn't get anymore rediculous...


In what way??? Because I compared the Zuki stupidity against an industry standard that produces reference designs and a one of the best bets out there for 'pure audio nirvana' to steal a 'Zuki'-faithful mantra... So, some people didn't like the physical size or the cosmetics... Regardless there is no comparison between the two companies, as Zed Audio not only designs, but manufactures and distributes thier own product and Stephen is without a doubt one of the premier amp designers/manufacturers out there... Zuki is a marketing engine that buys a pre-made product that has his name put on it... BIG difference...


----------



## ATF Kuk (Jul 15, 2005)

Lets put this **** to rest. 

I doubt this amp sounds "THIS" good, when i say this, i mean a 50 page thread about it.

I vote we have an amp war and listen to this thing. Im sure someone can donate one for listening purposes. 

I have my trusty F#1 F900 ready to go against the Zuki. Anyone else?


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

nobodies arguing superiority...

several are just arguing that it's garbage.

And, winners like dbphelps on here are just wasting time and looking dummer at each post.



Really, it was quite a shame. All this pushing, bitching and groaning, name calling, etc..

And really, very little was accomplished on what could have been an interesting, and intelligent conversation.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

*And really, very little was accomplished on what could have been an interesting, and intelligent conversation. *

You need more data to proceed.

Step 1: Gut pics.

That was a huge hurdle. Now we have an idea on build
quality and it does raise on issue with me that needs further investigation.

Step 2: Test the amplifier properly. Even a crude sine
wave test into precision loads works for me. Get a ball
part on it's performance so people understand what it
can do instead of the 5w BS.

Step 3: [Advanced] Reverse engineer the output stage
and see what the quality of components are used and see
if there is current sharing resistors, if not, I personally would mod my amp to have them because it's not good
circuit design practive to remove them, you can have reliability problems.

Step 3: Take a close up pic of the integrated circuits
in the preamp area, just to get an idea on what they used.

Lets say this amplifier does 75w x 4 @ 4 ohms, 125w x 4 @ 2 ohms. Most amplifier with this rating will use four
transistors per channel. The Zuki has for sure six per channel, the other two need verification if they are output
stage or predrivers, not to mention there is more stuff in
here than that ancient Genesis.

You know what's funny? People in the computer overclocking world 'do work' to find the best bang for
buck overclocking chip.

In car audio, who is doing this type of work where they
take the product and do some in depth analyze with the
product in hand, doing tests? If you want answers, you
have to hook it up and check it out.


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

How loud is the noise floor in a moving car? 

I mean, everyone is so worried about talking about the nuance of Tequila when you are just going to use it to make a mango margarita and lose all of that anyway as soon as you turn the blender on..........

Why not talk about build quality first? Reliability? 

Juan


----------



## dbphelps (Jun 30, 2006)

backwoods said:


> And, winners like dbphelps on here are just wasting time and looking dummer at each post.


BWAHAHAA!!!

You are such a moron... It is 'dumber'... Get a clue... Actually, pretty funny considering you tried to slam me and made yourself look piss-poor in as a result... HAHAHA!!!  

Plus, to further that, how is that happening at all???  

I believe you are just a little upset that your 'Zuki'-elitest status just took a straight header into the crapper... Get a life you dope...


----------



## csuflyboy (Apr 20, 2005)

This is the one of the most ridiculous and disrespectful thread I've read on DIYMA. Pat (ZUKI) has said he would like to keep pictures of the internals of his amplifier off the web. Exactly HOW different did you think the internals would be from another amplifier? There's a power supply, input and drive sections, etc. It's the sum of it's parts and design that add up to it's sound. I can see several differences between the SoundStream and Genesis amplifiers. Suggesting Pat is copying even a portion of their designs is ignorant.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

csuflyboy said:


> This is the one of the most ridiculous and disrespectful thread I've read on DIYMA. Pat (ZUKI) has said he would like to keep pictures of the internals of his amplifier off the web. Exactly HOW different did you think the internals would be from another amplifier? There's a power supply, input and drive sections, etc. It's the sum of it's parts and design that add up to it's sound. I can see several differences between the SoundStream and Genesis amplifiers. Suggesting Pat is copying even a portion of their designs is ignorant.


Look at the facts.

1. Genesis or Soundstream don't rate an amplifier that
appears to be capable of maybe 500w and advertise it
as 20 watts. Right there is your root cause. Nobody likes
overrated amps. People love underrated amps. Grossly
underrated amps creates the 'zuki-effect'.  

2. If I bought a product I'm going to do whatever I want
with it. If I want to use it as a boat anchor, then fine.
If I want to take pics and show people -->  


3. Prove that PAT didn't copy a design? He can come here
and talk about his circuit design methodologies without
revealing too many beans.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I'll say i don't have much stance in this argument but just a few words....

I honestly don't understand the point of 51pages worth of absolutely nothing worth reading other than a few random posts made by a few guys that DO leave empirical testing to be the background of there comments, not word of mount, and rumors.

I havn't read the first 47 pages of the BS, no point...........Nothing is being said but constantly downplaying everything zuki has done. People are ignorant of things they have no clue about, and i'll admit i don't know anything about amp designs or really anything about them, but i'm not going to go around reaking havoc and BShitting the whole forum acting like i do know things i don't, because i don't agree with so and so marketing, THATS the whole power of marketing, either beleiving the bull or looking through it and recognizing it, and anyone with a half a brain knows that. IE Bose, etc. who are masters at marketing and anyone will give that, they earned it, products speak otherwise, but marketing top notch.

But nothing is being done productive here except arguing the same idiotic points to the same 3 people who just have it out to drag zuki through some dirt.

A few good points being made by Thylantar, and a few others.

Let the product speak for itself, if its anywhere near the quality its shown, and claimed to be, then it will speak very loudly of itself, and in a few week's/month, this 50pages worth of BS will probobly be 100-150pages. because the same people are gonna keep making the same idiotic claims that no one beleives, without some kind of proof to back there ignorant comments.

Ever seen the Mercury Auto's.....Ford's but badged as a Mercury, Yes i do realize ford is the parent. But reliable designs are used by others, why.....because there reliable, and proven. I just dunno wtf this has turned into 51pages worth of arguing what?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

backwoods said:


> nobodies arguing superiority...
> 
> several are just arguing that it's garbage.



I don't think anyone is arguing the amp's quality, but the marketing and frustration of a lack of specs from Zuki. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Zuki makes great amps but I know of a lot of other great amps and if I'm going to decide what to run it's going to come down to specs. Does that mean I'm making a *better* choice? Not necessarily, but for me I want to make an *informed* choice.


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

Not to pick on anyone, but the bandwagon is part of what causes the length. 

I mean, I could go and cut & paste 30 pages from ECA's Tru threads .. oh what fun. Not to say one bandwagon is better than another .. just illustrating a point. I could just regurgitate the same crap, put a rolleyes after it, and I'd be half of this thread.

Albert - we were supposed to have an amp wars like 6-8 months ago.  Also, I believe Patrick said something about not comparing his 5w amp against a top of line the F1 100w+ amp.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> Look at the facts.
> 
> 1. Genesis or Soundstream don't rate an amplifier that
> appears to be capable of maybe 500w and advertise it
> ...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't SoundStream rated the Lil Wonder as "Lots!" and "Lots More!"?


Having said that, SoundStream also never asked anyone to not to test it or open it up either.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't SoundStream rated the Lil Wonder as "Lots!" and "Lots More!"?
> 
> 
> Having said that, SoundStream also never asked anyone to not to test it or open it up either.


LoL...yep, FR flatter than a board! 

You know if you guys need a 5x4 watt amp, pretty much any HU these days will give you near triple that.  

FYI, the amp is in the hands of someone that knows their way around amps and will be throughly evaluated. It's only a matter of time. Questions will be answered and many people will probably be doing the "told ya so" dance a few times, I'm guessing. Most importantly, the propaganda train will come to grinding halt and everyone in the Zuki Church will be wandering the streets in disillusionment.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I don't think any reasonable argument can be made that this isn't exactly what Zuki wanted. I doubt that it's even legal to void the warranty for looking. It's a very creative way to do this. 

1) Get a few early adopters to buy in and start spreading the word. Great way to sell a few amps to see what sort of real world problems arise. Controversy stirs interest.

2) Wait until somebody opens the ark of the covenant and takes some pictures. Many pages of discussion and a few more sales. Everything looks good so far.

3) Wait until somebody bench tests them and specs that follow normal standards get out. If the specs are good, more people buy. Now Zuki amps are known and become forum pets - people ask about the weird published specs and people will say: No, no, the real numbers are X - great amps.

4) You have a business that cost nothing to market and controlled sales growth. Some risk, but less exposure than most approaches.

Yeah, don't put photos of the guts on the Web. Ask yourself why anybody would ask that and mean it.


----------



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

This was just to be a clearing up of things that a friend let slip asking a "which amp" type of question. Someone brought up ZUKI amps and he let it slip about the review. He later deleted the thread. I have asked the MOD here to please delete it or lock it. It wasn't supposed to get this far out of hand. It has also got me in a bit of hot water at the other site. I didn't mean for it to happen, but I'll deal w/the punishment I get. We're a tight knit family over there so I'm not worried about being "Shunned out".


----------



## csuflyboy (Apr 20, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> Look at the facts.
> 
> 1. Genesis or Soundstream don't rate an amplifier that
> appears to be capable of maybe 500w and advertise it
> ...


Both Genesis and SoundStream underrated their amplifiers. "Genesis watts", and "the SS Lil Wonder's "lots" and "more" (or similar words). 



thylantyr said:


> 2. If I bought a product I'm going to do whatever I want
> with it. If I want to use it as a boat anchor, then fine.
> If I want to take pics and show people -->


I suppose that's your "right" to do so. However, I hope karma visits you someday and something you would rather keep quiet is posted all over the interwebz.



thylantyr said:


> 3. Prove that PAT didn't copy a design? He can come here
> and talk about his circuit design methodologies without
> revealing too many beans.


It's obvious who on DIYMA knows what they're looking at, and who doesn't. I've told you I can already see several differences between Zuki, SoundStream, and Genesis design. There are MILLIONS of combinations in terms of parts content and values used that WILL change how a circuit performs and sounds. Other manufacturers have already post that they didn't "sell" any designs to Pat, nor feel the two amplifiers are similar enough to warrant any legal action.

What's the bottom line here? Why is everyone SOOO excited over the guts? How about STFU and listen? Decide if it's worth it...


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

> It's obvious who on DIYMA knows what they're looking at, and who doesn't. I've told you I can already see several differences between Zuki, SoundStream, and Genesis design. There are MILLIONS of combinations in terms of parts content and values used that WILL change how a circuit performs and sounds. Other manufacturers have already post that they didn't "sell" any designs to Pat, nor feel the two amplifiers are similar enough to warrant any legal action.


Feel free. Analyze the Genesis and Zuki and post your
comments. Unless you have the boards in front of you
and or schematics of said products, nobody knows for sure.

But it is interesting to see a design flaw from a 11 year old
Genesis find it's way into a Zuki design, almost as good as
fingerprint.. lol

What is more expensive?

1. To challenge Zuki with a lawsuit and spend tons of
money on lawyers?

2. Play stupid, look the other way, and say 'It's not our design', ours is better, we already looked at it.

It's easier to choose item #2 because Zuki isn't stealing
any business when he sells only a few amps. 

-> Certain things revealed can't be posted in public doman :wink:

hehehe


----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> Feel free. Analyze the Genesis and Zuki and post your
> comments. Unless you have the boards in front of you
> and or schematics of said products, nobody knows for sure.
> 
> ...


Sheesh........This is like a bad rash that will not go away.........what does it take to extract my brand from this discussion...........


----------



## csuflyboy (Apr 20, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> Feel free. Analyze the Genesis and Zuki and post your
> comments. Unless you have the boards in front of you
> and or schematics of said products, nobody knows for sure.
> 
> ...


You just don't get it...

Two Genesis DM's, Zuki, SS', or _____ (whatever amp you choose), can be identical with the parts content, and sound totally different! END OF STORY!

Design "flaw"? Care to elaborate? Perhaps Pat feels the "flaw", with a twist, is ideal for his design. I don't have the schematics here, and even if I did, IT WOULDN'T TELL ME ANYTHING about overall performance!

You're talking out of both ends...you're defending the pictures, yet won't post critical info on a public domain.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

Two identical amplifiers from the same brand and model
will sound different if you mismatch the gains on an
ABX test. 

The same is true. Match the gains and they will sound
the same.

Mix brands and can also create these two effects mentioned above.

>>Design "flaw"? Care to elaborate? 

It's been mentioned in this thread many times. You have
many pages of homework to do.  




> Sheesh........This is like a bad rash that will not go away.........what does it take to extract my brand from this discussion...........


Is there a forum rule I missed that I can't say the word
Genesis in a forum discussion ? if so, let me know.


----------



## csuflyboy (Apr 20, 2005)

IF you think gain is the only thing that changes how an amplifier sounds, we're done here.

I've read, and wasted my time reading your claims of a "fingerprint", and "design flaw". You've failed to do your homework in EE.


----------



## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

FoxPro5 said:


> FYI, the amp is in the hands of someone that knows their way around amps and will be throughly evaluated. It's only a matter of time. Questions will be answered and many people will probably be doing the "told ya so" dance a few times, I'm guessing. Most importantly, the propaganda train will come to grinding halt and everyone in the Zuki Church will be wandering the streets in disillusionment.


Like he said .

I may have just started up a project funded by a few people, to get on of these amps reviewed .


I will say I am impressed from the guts. For a $400 msrp amp, the thign is freakign impressive.

Soon some of us will have some real specs on that amp.


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)




----------



## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

thylantyr said:


> Is there a forum rule I missed that I can't say the word
> Genesis in a forum discussion ? if so, let me know.


Sheesh man! I have already clearly stated that we closely inspected the Zuki amplifiers to investigate these TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED claims swirling around that the Zuki is somehow a copy of our design, and they are simply NOT a copy of our designs!

They are not a product where someone got their hands on one of our amplifiers, and sent it over to some other build house and ordered copies of our amplifier with their own name on it.

Yet YOU continue to post these strange statements with our brand and the Zuki name somehow related by some supposedly shared "design flaw" or some other off the wall "suspicion" on your part.

These are quite frankly non-factual!

There is no deep dark secret as to why we did not pursue any action against Zuki, nor is there any reason for our lack of interest in the Zuki product, other than we proved to ourselves that there was nothing nefarious going on in this case, so there is nothing to be gained on our part to look into it any further other than burning time. Period.

So would you please stop perpetuating the silly notion of some connection between their products and ours by mentioning our brand in the same posts as theirs!


----------



## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

autofile said:


> Sheesh man! I have already clearly stated that we closely inspected the Zuki amplifiers to investigate these TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED claims swirling around that the Zuki is somehow a copy of our design, and they are simply NOT a copy of our designs!
> 
> They are not a product where someone got their hands on one of our amplifiers, and sent it over to some other build house and ordered copies of our amplifier with their own name on it.
> 
> ...


let me borrow a demo gene amp and Ill have a third party EE verify that along w/ the sinfoni amp hes getting too.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

csuflyboy said:


> What's the bottom line here? Why is everyone SOOO excited over the guts? How about STFU and listen? Decide if it's worth it...



I won't speak for anyone else, but for me it wasn't so much the guts I was interested in, but the specs. Why should I have to fork out $400-$600 _just to find out_ if this amp will do what I need it to? What happens if it's not? Can I get my money back? At best, yes, but I can't think of a single internet retailer that will give me full cash outlay, including shipping both ways, back if I'm not happy. At worst, I have to sell it and lose even more money on shipping and resale price. All of this just to find out when some real specs would have at least gotten me in the ball park of knowing if it'll work for me or not. I don't think it's fair to the consumer to have to come out of pocket for this information. I think it's _very_ reasonable to at least be given specs inline with the CEA standard. I'm NOT saying that the CEA standard is a good measuring tool but it's at least a _consistent_ measuring tool and gives at least something better than 5Wx4 or "Lots!." 

And to be fair, yes, I thought the Lil Wonder ratings, while pretty funny, were not helpful in selling them. But at least with the LW you had a dealer network available and could go to a store and demo one without paying $400. SoundStream also made it available for independent testing. 

I have no doubts the Zuki is a very capable amplifier, just as the LW was. I just think the way it's being marketed and sold is not in the best interest of the consumer, but rather the manufacturer. Some say he's not doing it for the money. I'd counter with, if that were true, you wouldn't have to pay to find out.


----------



## dingaling (Apr 14, 2005)

has anyone tested these amps on a bench yet?


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

dingaling said:


> has anyone tested these amps on a bench yet?


.....and I was just putting away my pitchfork and torch.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And by that logic, a headunit will have 4 times the power of a pair of Linear Power 2.2s.



FoxPro5 said:


> You know if you guys need a 5x4 watt amp, pretty much any HU these days will give you near triple that.


----------



## Duckman (Aug 5, 2007)

thylantyr said:


> *Intermission - 50 pages cometh *
> 
> Get a beer
> Get popcorn
> ...


That my freind doesn't even deserve a glass of pond water let alone a beer or popcorn...some things should be left alone.


----------



## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

Duckman said:


> That my freind doesn't even deserve a glass of pond water let alone a beer or popcorn...some things should be left alone.


There's more comics coming, all products are game


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

I thought it was pretty funny .. but I'm not religious.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

OgreDave said:


> I thought it was pretty funny .. but I'm not religious.


Hell yea i was laughing my ass off, damn funny, but likewise here too, now the threads gonna go back OT on an argument about religion.

So what are the realistic specs of the zuki amps, since theres been 50 some pages of discussion on simply that, someone even measured it yet?


----------



## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

No measurements, just guesstimates.

Looks like common speculation (oh no, not again) is ~4x75w or so.


----------



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

backwoods said:


> LMAO!!!
> What's funny is, no one has still noticed the item zuki was so worried about being seen...


I do....read my post on the first page...


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

The Masons and Zuki are in collusion.


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

If you draw a line between all the output transistors at a 90 degree angle.... you get a pentagram like the street layout of Washington DC.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

AzGrower said:


> I do....read my post on the first page...


I noticed your post...but I didn't think it was literal until the pics went up.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

OldOneEye said:


> If you draw a line between all the output transistors at a 90 degree angle.... you get a pentagram like the street layout of Washington DC.


I spit my drink on that one...


----------



## audionutz (Dec 22, 2005)

autofile said:


> Sheesh........This is like a bad rash that will not go away.........what does it take to extract my brand from this discussion...........



AMEN, brother! Amen.


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> The Masons and Zuki are in collusion.


I disagree, I think it's made on the planet Zukitron.


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

I just read a great article on a HUGE new college drinking game. Here is the way it is played:

1) They all gather around the table.

2) The lead person logs on to the internet.

3) They log onto this forum post.

4) Everyone at the table chants Zuki, Zuki, Zuki, starting very quite and progressively getting louder with each post. 
(very similar to the scene in Animal House)

5) The lead person starts reading the posts as fast as possible with minimal comprehension. 
(very similar to an SAT test)

6) Every time a post has random thoughts, not at all attributable to the original post, everyone at the table drinks.

7) Every time a post attacks another member of the forum personally, for no apparent reason, the lead person and the person directly to the left of the lead person drinks.

8) Every time a post lists the words MAGIC or MARKETING, the lead person and the person directly to the right of the lead person drinks.

9) When the lead person falls the first time he/she is given a standing 8 count and if able and willing are allowed back into the "lead position".

10) After the lead person is unable to continue, usually around page 12-14, the "lead position" is passed directly across the table. This spreads around the libations.

11) By this time the Zuki, Zuki, Zuki chant is reaching a fevered pitch and most of the initial participants are quite inebriated.

Dependent on the amount of people that start the initial game it rarely lasts for more than 90 minutes. The standing record was recorded at the community college for small engine repair in Podunk USA. It lasted 3 1/2 hours, contained 32 initial participants and went for a record breaking 41 pages.

Good luck to all trying to break that record!


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

drake78 said:


> I disagree, I think it's made on the planet Zukitron.


Zuki's bringing sexy back.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

bassfromspace said:


> The Masons and Zuki are in collusion.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

OK people, break it up. Nothing more to see here. When some bench test results show up we can reconvene in a new thread. Go on home now. Back to your families.


----------



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Rudeboy said:


> OK people, break it up. Nothing more to see here. When some bench test results show up we can reconvene in a new thread. Go on home now. Back to your families.


you mean start another 150 page thread?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

bassfromspace said:


> Zuki's bringing sexy back.


..the other ****ers don't know how to act...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/barnz008/jt.jpg

Ok, I done now....


----------



## iyamwutiam (Nov 20, 2006)

Where is our digital proceesing (mad crazy qualified EE) genius werewolf in all of this??? Seems strange that a true teacher would stay away from this tread. 

Thylanter -- mad props - right or wrong - you brought up some points-(questions)!!!!

Awesome thread-we have some truly contributory members on this board- my compliments to adding to our learning, experience and POV. I mean - it is amazing the amount of knowledge, insight as well as hubris, hyperbole brought up in this discussion.

Thank you EVERYONE!!!


We definitely should have MORE of it - include Zapco, Arc, McIntosh, Genesis,Brax, Linea Power, Altomobie, Tru Technology -everyone.

Anyway= thanks to everone - on the whole ---a nite well spent -despite reading over 50 pages!!!

    

Thanks to everyone for making it educational, intersting and most of all critical!!


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

iyamwutiam said:


> Where is our digital proceesing (mad crazy qualified EE) genius werewolf in all of this??? Seems strange that a true teacher would stay away from this tread.



He got his feelings hurt and left the forum.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

ca90ss said:


> He got his feelings hurt and left the forum.


Took his toys as well.


----------



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

I just wanted to share my initial impressions of Mr. Zuki. I think his primary motive to come out with his own amp line. Was simply fueled by his undeniable passion for music and great audio equipment.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

*my* posts don't bring anything to this thread???

i think this thread clearly separates idiots from true audio enthusiasts. keep it up fellas, you look like the complete morons you are.


----------



## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

jj_diamond said:


> tonight the city is full of morgues
> and all the toilets are overflowing
> there's shopping malls coming out of the walls
> as we walk out among the manure
> ...



Yeah, that is a stunning example of your excellent contributions to this thread


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

^ see what i mean?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

jj_diamond said:


> *my*
> i think this thread clearly separates idiots from true audio enthusiasts. keep it up fellas, *you look like the complete morons you are*.


So what you're saying is we look like ourselves. Now I'm not one to publish my own specs or really show my guts online, but by golly, I thinks you're right!!!!!!! 

CMR22, I'll take the pitchfork right through the back of my skull, thanks.


----------



## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

and you persistently take my posts out of context. please leave me alone and ignore me FoxPro5. PLEASE.


----------

