# My 2012 Kia Rio 5 Audio Build



## JayinMI

Back in April, I traded in my 2010 Genesis Coupe for a 2012 Kia Rio Hatchback EX. More room, better gas mileage, more features I'll actually use, more comfortable seats, lower payment.

I got it on 4/4/12. The Genesis (5 days from being 3 years old had almost 72k miles on it). Here's what it looked like after I took the pinstripe off.










This started on may 1, 2012:

Tint: 30% all around, 40% on the windshield.



















Then I rolled it over to Discount Tire where a friend of mine works to pick up my new wheels and tires. Drag DR-23 (Spoon 388/Rota Slipstream replicas) in 16x7, flat black with 205/50/16 Nitto Neo Gens.










Then over to Jasper's house to vinyl wrap the roof.










Wrapped (including the rear hatch spoiler, to the body line)





























more...


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## jcollin76

Oh, I like the vinyl on the roof!!


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## JayinMI

Then I wrapped the tops of the mirrors, chrome around the grills, chrome around the foglights, tinted the foglights yellow, and changed the emblems to Kadenza emblems.
































































StreetKiaz Michigan Chapter sticker:










Before:










After:











Now, the outside is almost done. I plan to have our tinter do my tail lights. Next summer I plan to do coilovers (I have a lot of stuff to pay down first, and I haven't found a set of coilovers stateside that I want yet.)

I never could afford to do anything to make the Genesis Coupe "my own," so I did that first on this car. 

Next up: Audio Plans

Jay


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## papasin

JayinMI said:


> Next up: Audio Plans
> 
> Jay


Looking good. I'm in. :snacks:


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## JayinMI

My first thoughts upon seeing the dash of the new Rio was "GalaxyTab 8.9!"
But since I ended up getting a car with more options than I had planned, it came with the UVO system. That has a backup camera, SiriusXM, a hard drive, USB, iPod, and Zune control, aux in and voice activation. After using it, I think I'll keep it. It also does BT hands free and streaming, which I now use frequently.










That will probably pass signal to my BitOne.1, which I already have. I was thinking of switching to the Mosconi 6to8, but I already have it and it works and will do what I need it to...plus it already has Optical input in case I go to a tablet later.

Signal will then pass on to a trio of Sony Mobile ES amps (circa 1996).
An XM-5046 will run my Vifa Ring Radiators and Tang band W3 bamboo's, which I will mold into the a-pillars. (50W apiece or so...the TB's are 8ohm)

An XM-2100g will run the 7" Dayton RS-180's (100W apiece) in the doors for midbass.

Another XM-2100g will be bridged to 2 ohms to run an Arc Black 10. I already have a Dayton 10" HO, but the port makes it difficult to build in where I want it, and it's a single 4 ohm VC. At 2 ohm mono, I'm told the 2100g puts out a little over 400 watts.

Sub box and amp rack will go in the spare tire well. The car didn't come with a spare, so no loss there.

I had planned on doing a nice, simple setup, with a nice trim panel on top, but then Bing had to go and build that Genesis Sedan with EVERYTHING finished on both sides, so now I have to step *MY* game up! LOL

I have a few things to pick up to finish my parts collection, then I will take my vacation and do the fabrication. Expect that sometime around early to mid August.

Jay


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## JayinMI

jcollin76 said:


> Oh, I like the vinyl on the roof!!


Thanks! That was my first time doing vinyl. It's not perfect, but I seem to be the only one who notices. I figured if I hated it enough, I'd redo it next summer.

I've probably got less than $200 in vinyl and it makes a pretty drastic change to a fairly plain car.

I get nearly as many comments, looks and compliments as I did with the Genesis coupe.

Jay


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## damonryoung

papasin said:


> Looking good. I'm in. :snacks:


Count me in too... :beerchug:


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## JayinMI

papasin said:


> Looking good. I'm in. :snacks:


This will be a budget undertaking. If (for some reason) I decide not to do the Arc Black sub, I may do an RE SE10, ported. I'm pretty impressed with those subs too, and I know I could get it cheap and we stock it.

I'm trying to find a source for the base model a-pillars (that don't have tweeters molded in at eye level) that isn't $70/ea...since I found them on a site for $16 ea but can't seem to verify they are the same parts I need.

This WILL be "done" this time. I swear it. LOL

Jay


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## JayinMI

DRTHJTA said:


> Count me in too... :beerchug:


Thanks.

My 4 channel is supposed to be here on Thursday.

I need to bench test all the amps, and I may recap them to be on the safe side....they are all like 7-8/10 condition and might need a little touch up. I was thinking of having the heat sinks powdercoated flat black and re silkscreened in silver, charcoal gray or gloss black...but that may come later since I have no idea how much that might run me.

Jay


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## JayinMI

Gratuitous shot of the whole car, in front of (oddly enough) the "Church" of Scientology (Grand Blanc, MI) LOL










Jay


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## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I had planned on doing a nice, simple setup, with a nice trim panel on top, but then Bing had to go and build that Genesis Coupe with EVERYTHING finished on both sides, so now I have to step *MY* game up! LOL


I assume you mean the Genesis sedan. If so, I was parked next to that car during last weekend's meet. Looks better in person, but definitely not a budget build so not a fair comparison. But seeing your work on that VW, you have nothing to worry about .


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## JayinMI

Thanks.

I'd love to be able to afford to do something flashy that totally negates the usefulness of a car ( :laugh: ), but this is my daily. It's been a long time since I've had an "extra" car. 

And my comment above is not directed at that Genesis at ALL. I love that thing. When I win the lottery, a Genesis Sedan R-spec might be in my future. LOL. But flashy is what gets installers noticed most.

Maybe someday I'll buy another Neon and gut the interior and do something nuts.

Jay


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## FartinInTheTub

I like the first pic on top! Cool little car! I've been looking at Rios since they get killer mileage and come with an awesome warranty. I used to have a Spectra and absolutely loved it. How much did you pay for it? I want the exact car... color and all.


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## JayinMI

It stickered at something like $18,500, the dealer came down to about $17,600 and I lost my ass on my trade in. LOL.

It's a Clear White 2012 Rio EX Hatchback with the Convenience Package.

It's the only car I drove that had rear disc brakes. The only thing I've found I miss from the Genesis Coupe is the Auto up/down passenger window. LOL

Probably the best electric assist power steering I've driven.

I am impressed with it, and I can't wait to get the audio done in it.

It's rated at 30/40 and I typically get 33 (avg, w A/C on) or 35.5 (avg, no ac) in mostly hwy driving. Of course I drive about 80 on the freeway so I don't expect to get 40, tho I did on one tank where I drove 65 on the freeway just to see if I could get to 40mpg.

Jay


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## 3cyltrbo

Love this car / love the lines / love all the equipment per dollar etc...

Its a very hard to beat car in its market. 

If they had been on dealer lots when my GF got her 2012 Accent sedan I would have insisted on this instead (but they only arrived about 3 months after she had her Accent) 

Can't wait to see what you do with it / loved the work in your Neon and the Gen Coupe. 

Will


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

JayinMI said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe someday I'll buy another Neon and gut the interior and do something nuts.
> 
> Jay


Do it! Found some more room in mine for some new crazy ideas, I'll update my log after I recover from surgury.


Car looks good though, nice daily.


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## JayinMI

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Do it! Found some more room in mine for some new crazy ideas, I'll update my log after I recover from surgury.
> 
> 
> Car looks good though, nice daily.


Hope the surgery goes OK. What are you having done?
I'll look forward to updates on your car.

Thanks. I like it. 

Jay


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## JayinMI

I've been searching for 8th gen civic sedan and honda fit pillar builds. Since they both have a small window in front of the mirrors. Seems like all of the builds that apply have had the pictures removed! LOL Figures.

Jay


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Fissurectomy. Had it yesturday, two weeks off. Not as bad as I expected, but the injury first happened last august, I always just thought it would go away. 

On that note, make sure you never get dehydrated while eating like crap while out of town. Doctor said thats the most common way to need one of these surguries.


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## JayinMI

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Fissurectomy. Had it yesturday, two weeks off. Not as bad as I expected, but the injury first happened last august, I always just thought it would go away.
> 
> On that note, make sure you never get dehydrated while eating like crap while out of town. Doctor said thats the most common way to need one of these surguries.


Don't worry, I only get dehydrated and eat like crap in town...when I go out of town I eat better and stay inside. LOL

Glad everything went ok.

Jay

PS. I just googled "fissurectomy," totally NOT what I expected. Hope you feel better, man.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Lol, I'm just glad I'm in the US. In England, they do something called the "Lord's Procedure". Much, much worse.

So far, have had 3 surguries. Broken arm at 6 years old, shattered ankle at 18, and this one at 28. This one was by far the easiest, 30 minutes, out for an hour and a half, no nausea upon waking up, and woke right up.


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## nadams5755

JayinMI said:


> I've been searching for 8th gen civic sedan and honda fit pillar builds. Since they both have a small window in front of the mirrors. Seems like all of the builds that apply have had the pictures removed! LOL Figures.
> 
> Jay


the yaris has the sail windows too, maybe you can find some builds with those also.


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## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I've been searching for 8th gen civic sedan and honda fit pillar builds. Since they both have a small window in front of the mirrors. Seems like all of the builds that apply have had the pictures removed! LOL Figures.
> 
> Jay


My pics are still there...although the pods were done by bikinpunk as I understand.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...sedan-redline-orange-pearl-2.html#post1490253

I've since cut angled rings for them, so they aren't pointing directly onto the dash. A few folks were able to listen to the car at Bing's meet this weekend, and seem to think overall it isn't too shabby .


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## JayinMI

I actually missed that part of your thread, and when I was searching on the first page you talked about wanting it to be "stealth, using all stock locations" (IIRC) so I moved on...my bad.

I remember reading your thread at one point, and catching all the comments from the recent meet, but somehow missed the middle. Very nice job. I'd like to try the Audible Physics stuff, but it's just not in my price range. I'd love to try HAT too, but alas, also out of my price range.

I'm not necessarily looking to use the area where the little windows are, but was more looking to see how people dealt with them.

For those guys razzing you about only having 1 10 in your car, I did a single RE SXX10 ported, tuned to about 35Hz (per RE's recommendation) that was down firing and used the air space under the driver's side rear seat, and between the seat and back of the center console. It was powered by an Alpine PDX-M12. OMG! Litterally sounded (and hit like) 2 decent 12's. It was in a Lincoln Mark LT. So, as men like to tell women, Size doesn't matter, it's all in how you implement it (or something like that. lol)

Jay


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## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I actually missed that part of your thread, and when I was searching on the first page you talked about wanting it to be "stealth, using all stock locations" (IIRC) so I moved on...my bad.


No worries, my build has evolved as probably many have on here so not out of the ordinary to miss . Still fairly stealthy if I do say so myself. IIRC, a couple during the meet wondered where the speakers were located (I currently have speaker grill cloth covering the pods).



JayinMI said:


> I'd like to try the Audible Physics stuff, but it's just not in my price range. I'd love to try HAT too, but alas, also out of my price range.
> 
> I'm not necessarily looking to use the area where the little windows are, but was more looking to see how people dealt with them.


The AP drivers are hard to come by, was lucky enough to pick mine up in the Classified section. Yep wouldn't call them cheap, but did get them well below MSRP (nearly 50% IIRC) BNIB, so was happy with that . 

Not sure if the TB you are thinking about are like the AP drivers, but while the AP drivers would work fine IB, I read that they work quite nicely in a small sealed enclosure, and when I measured the volume of the window area, just was about what it called for. Be interested to see what you come up with.



JayinMI said:


> For those guys razzing you about only having 1 10 in your car, I did a single RE SXX10 ported, tuned to about 35Hz (per RE's recommendation) that was down firing and used the air space under the driver's side rear seat, and between the seat and back of the center console. It was powered by an Alpine PDX-M12. OMG! Litterally sounded (and hit like) 2 decent 12's. It was in a Lincoln Mark LT. So, as men like to tell women, Size doesn't matter, it's all in how you implement it (or something like that. lol)
> 
> Jay


My build is just a single JL 10w3v3 sealed though, powered by a bridge set of channels of the PPI900.4 (getting 450W RMS). I do have though the stock sub on the rear deck removed acting as a "port" of sorts to let the sub-bass vent into the cabin. I've always thought it was fine. JT thought it was plenty, and BigRed even recommended I turn down 40Hz by 3.5dB after the MS-8 auto-tune. That's how I have it set now, and will have to listen with that set for a bit more and will post my impressions over in my thread after a little time.

I totally hear ya though. If I've learned anything, "install, install, install". I know having great hardware is nice, but I'll take a great install over expensive equipment any day. Of course, I'll take a great install with great equipment if my budget can afford it .


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## JayinMI

papasin said:


> Not sure if the TB you are thinking about are like the AP drivers, but while the AP drivers would work fine IB, I read that they work quite nicely in a small sealed enclosure, and when I measured the volume of the window area, just was about what it called for. Be interested to see what you come up with.


I already have the TB's, they were in my Genesis coupe. I had them in smallish pods on top of the dash, running tweeterless. I was pretty happy with them as is, but I bought the Vifa RR's at the same time and never used them. Figured I'd throw them in for a little added sparkle on top.

I tried to pick all of my speakers based on recommendations on here. So many people ask "what's the best speaker?" when it should be "what's the best speaker for my application?" I found the Fountek FR88's and TB W3 Bamboos both got very good reviews, and from the descriptions of the sound I read, I went with the Bamboos. I had narrowed my midbass selection down to the SWS6, RS180 or maybe the RS225. The SWS seemed to work best in a small pass band, in an enclosure. The RS180 seemed to work better in a door, but I read that it didn't go high enough to really use in a 2 way setup. The RS225's wouldn't have fit easily where I was going to put them.

I ran the 180's from about 63-300 (crossover points and slopes varied some) and then ran the TB's from 315 and up.

I was pretty happy with the whole setup.

I'd love to keep my Dayton, but I think the port might make that improbable...I'll add a plate amp to it and put it in my "home theater." LOL

Jay


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## JayinMI

My 4 channel came today...so I bench tested all of them, and they all work.

Here's a teaser pic:










Jay


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## JayinMI

Well, today, I finally decided to look at the a-pillar area. I've been trying to find the ones w/o tweeters, but the dealer wants like $75 ea for them. Thought I'd pop mine out and look for a part number, and see what kind of space I had to work with.

The airbag comes down about 6" or so at the top.










But there's a ton of room down by the window. I think I could actually build enclosures for some 6 inchers down there!



















There's a weird black clip at the top. you have to release it at the a pillar, or twist it and pop it out of the a-pillar. It was a pain and a bunch of manufacturers are using them, now. I think it keeps the a-pillar from becoming a potential projectile in an accident.

Here's the spare tire well:










It's pretty big, so I probably *do* have enough room to do my Dayton ported...so I'm going to try that first. I plan to mount the enclosure down to the spare tire hold down, and there are 4 points with plastic inserts in the floor I will use to mount the amp rack. 

Here's my initial idea for it:










The only problems I see is that the XM 5046 is about 3/4" taller than the 2100g's, and b) it is painted while the 2100g's are brushed. 

Almost enough to make me look for another 2100g (or a 260g) to replace it and go back to running tweeterless.

I don't want to raise my floor that much...or I'll show off the 2100g's and hide the 5046 on the box or otherwise in the spare tire well.

Just spitballing some ideas, right now.

Jay


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## trojan fan

JayinMI said:


> Gratuitous shot of the whole car, in front of (oddly enough) the "Church" of Scientology (Grand Blanc, MI) LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jay


I see Tom looking out the window


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## quietfly

nice job!!! any updates?


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## JayinMI

Not yet. I'm trying to figure out if I want to (or can afford to) change equipment, and then I need to take my vacation.

Hopefully not too much longer.

Jay


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## JayinMI

Bought my power wire, speaker wire, and fuseholder. Also ordered my techflex, but I'm waiting to see if Furryletters will give me a cheaper price.

I really wanted to try out some of the Audible Physics stuff, and Mark has offered me some great pricing, but things just keep happening that keeps them out of reach. Guess I'll have to wait til next year. Looks like I'm keeping the Tang Bands, Vifa's and Daytons.

Still need a new sub. (Part of what keeps the AP drivers out of reach). Anyone got an SI BM MKIII?

Jay


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## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I really wanted to try out some of the Audible Physics stuff, and Mark has offered me some great pricing, but things just keep happening that keeps them out of reach. Guess I'll have to wait til next year. Looks like I'm keeping the Tang Bands, Vifa's and Daytons.


XR Duo, or something newer (Arians?).


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## JayinMI

I really wanted the XR Duos, but Mark said he didn't have the XR mids. I ws going to try and get the XR3's, but they're just a little out of the budget. We talked about some of the H Audio stuff too, but the more I figure out I need, the less likely it is I'll have money for new speakers.

So, I may wait til next year and upgrade to the XR3/Arian combo.

I'm still trying to decide what to do about midbasses, since my car came with something like a 5.75" speaker in the door, and I can't build out hardly at all or the glovebox won't open.

Jay


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## Chaos

Isn't a trip that some cars don't even come with a spare anymore?

Another one of the guys at our shop just bought a new Hyundai, and he tore the dealer a new one when he got it home and found out there was no friggin' spare! He got the part in the end, but he also isn't planing to use the tire well for anything else. In your case, I guess it works out.

Nice looking car BTW, I like the tint & wheels with the white finish.

Maybe you could partially hide the larger amp beneath the other two, in a kind of layered arrangement? 

What happened to the Dayton 10? Would you really use an RE SEx10 instead? We've sold a few RE subs lately, and with the exception of the XXX series, they really haven't impressed me.


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## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I really wanted the XR Duos, but Mark said he didn't have the XR mids. I ws going to try and get the XR3's, but they're just a little out of the budget. We talked about some of the H Audio stuff too, but the more I figure out I need, the less likely it is I'll have money for new speakers.
> 
> So, I may wait til next year and upgrade to the XR3/Arian combo.


For my application, I'll have to say I am quite pleased with the XR Duos. Can't say I've tried anything and everything, but from what I've tried in the Civic, it's not going to be replaced anytime soon . With that said, it might be fortuitous to wait until next year, seeing that Mark says he has something upcoming.



Audible Physics said:


> *And Yes I have something Special coming on the 3.5" super wide-band front also some thing if my memory serves me right has not been done in/for Car Audio!!!
> 
> *


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## JayinMI

Chaos said:


> Isn't a trip that some cars don't even come with a spare anymore?
> 
> Another one of the guys at our shop just bought a new Hyundai, and he tore the dealer a new one when he got it home and found out there was no friggin' spare! He got the part in the end, but he also isn't planing to use the tire well for anything else. In your case, I guess it works out.
> 
> Nice looking car BTW, I like the tint & wheels with the white finish.
> 
> Maybe you could partially hide the larger amp beneath the other two, in a kind of layered arrangement?
> 
> What happened to the Dayton 10? Would you really use an RE SEx10 instead? We've sold a few RE subs lately, and with the exception of the XXX series, they really haven't impressed me.


We've had the exact opposite result. The SE ans SX's pound like mad. The XXX's seem to blow rather easily if the end user isn't responsible. I did an SXX 10 in a Mark LT truck downfiring in abour 1.1ft tuned to 35Hz on an Alpine PDX-M12 and it sounds like a pair of nice 12's. It's loud and goes deep.

I still have the Dayton, but I don't want to raise my floor at all if I can avoid it. We have a Culligan water cooler at home and I can fit 6-7 of the 5 gallon bottles in the back as it sits. I'd like to be able to keep doing that. 

I keep going back and forth on the sub. I've started to think about putting the amps in the well, and putting the sub on the passenger side of the hatch. If I could get something like an SI BM Mk III I'd do that and have to give up almost no room.

I guess we'll see what pops out when I start working on it. LOL

Jay


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## aktill

Spooky to find this build, since I'm going to be running a very similar setup. 

I've got a white 2013 SX sedan (which I sold a black ForTwo to buy lol), and will be running similar speakers for the front stage (Tang W3 bamboos and Dayton RS180's). The Tang's are going in pods made from a couple of these joined together (BLANDA BLANK Serving bowl - 12 cm - IKEA), and the Dayton's were mindlessly easy to install in the door locations.

Need both the full trunk and the spare however (often in the country miles from anywhere and move a bunch of horse-related tack around all the time), so for the low end I'm going with a couple of Tang Band w6-1139si's in the rear doors. We'll see how they do. Interestingly, up here in Canada we got the spares included rather than the patch kit. 

Spent the entire weekend buried in the car, and was very pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to work on. Lots of room everywhere, the trim comes apart easily and has tons of room under it, and even getting through the firewall for power was straightforward (drilled a couple of holes in the passenger footwell above the existing grommit). Only pain so far was getting through the front door molex's, but it's doable with some patience/swearing.

Thanks for your mention of the grounding upgrade issue on another thread...saved me some potential headache! Decided to run grounds from the battery as a result.

Will be following with interest!


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## Chaos

I understand that RE has a shallow mount sub, but we don't carry it. I wonder how that might sound.


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## JayinMI

It was the SL line. From what I can tell, they no longer make it. I've heard good things, tho.

Jay


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## JayinMI

aktill said:


> Spooky to find this build, since I'm going to be running a very similar setup.
> 
> I've got a white 2013 SX sedan (which I sold a black ForTwo to buy lol), and will be running similar speakers for the front stage (Tang W3 bamboos and Dayton RS180's). The Tang's are going in pods made from a couple of these joined together (BLANDA BLANK Serving bowl - 12 cm - IKEA), and the Dayton's were mindlessly easy to install in the door locations.
> 
> Need both the full trunk and the spare however (often in the country miles from anywhere and move a bunch of horse-related tack around all the time), so for the low end I'm going with a couple of Tang Band w6-1139si's in the rear doors. We'll see how they do. Interestingly, up here in Canada we got the spares included rather than the patch kit.
> 
> Spent the entire weekend buried in the car, and was very pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to work on. Lots of room everywhere, the trim comes apart easily and has tons of room under it, and even getting through the firewall for power was straightforward (drilled a couple of holes in the passenger footwell above the existing grommit). Only pain so far was getting through the front door molex's, but it's doable with some patience/swearing.
> 
> Thanks for your mention of the grounding upgrade issue on another thread...saved me some potential headache! Decided to run grounds from the battery as a result.
> 
> Will be following with interest!


Yeah, I have only taken the passenger door skin and rear trim apart. Like most Asian cars, they are pretty easy to work on, not overly complicated, and easy to reassemble. 

The speakers in the front of mine were smaller than I expected. Looks like maybe a 6" (as opposed to a 6.5 or 6.75), so I was expecting to have to rebuild the bottom of the door. Nice to hear I won't have to.

Jay


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## JayinMI

GF found my missing TB Bamboo, and my BNIB Vifa Ring Radiators. So, I should be able to get moving soon.

I made some fiberglass molds of the small window area, but haven't gotten much further than that.

Jay


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## JayinMI

OK. An update...

Today was REALLY slow at work. We close at 6, first job came in at 5pm. 
So, since I had some time, I took the fiberglass molds I made of the small front window area, and added my rings for my TB 3's.



Then stretched pieces of an old work tshirt over them. 





Then resined it and added a couple of layers of cloth/fiberglass. 





That's as far as I got today. 

I was looking at Erin's new pods that were molded into the a pillar, and really like them. I can't decide if I want to do that with mine, or if I want to leave them separate, in case I change equipment.

I guess we'll see when I get a little further.

I aimed them up slightly (to clear the cluster, mainly) and towards the back of the front windows. 

I also was reading Strakele's latest updates, and saw that he added the AMT's to pick up the high end. I have a set of Vifa Ring Radiators I haven't decided if I want to use or sell...I may just put them in before I finish the pods.

I like how low profile these pods are and there is enough room toward the front to add the tweets.

The other thing is that if I run the tweets, I'll have to reconfigure my amp setup, which will leave me with less power to my midbasses.

Jay


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## papasin

Just my opinion, but I think the choice between separate pods vs. fully integrated with the A-pillar depends on the replacement cost of the pillar vs. preference of appearance. For the 8th gen Civic sedans (like mine and Erin's), the pillars are actually quite inexpensive so I would go for an integrated pillar if I had the skill and experience. Right now, I'm actually using repurposed pods that were glassed by Erin, but looking to move toward a more integrated one in the winter with the new speakers.

Having said that, yours is better designed than mine as I had to cut angled rings for the speakers to get them level as the pods have the speaker holes pointed into the dash :shrug:...but that's part of learning in this hobby .


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## JayinMI

I was going to back cut the rings on a 45 degree angle, but the mounting hole is slight larger than required, to make it possible to fit some other 3's I was looking at. There seems to be plenty of room for the speakers to breathe.

I thought I had found the a pillars for $16-20 on a couple of different websites, but when I go to the dealer their computer says dealer cost is like $45...so I must be looking at the wrong thing.

I'm thinking they'll end up separate at first, but may get molded in in the future.

Jay


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## niceguy

That's a cool build man and those old Sony amps bring back memories....I had an XM 260g (don't even remember where I got it) out of high school and then sold it on this forum a couple of years back though I don't remember who bought it...

I also ended up using speakers that didn't work in car like my Tangband 740c 8" subs....did great till I decided to use an old Memphis HPO 15" in a 2cf sealed enclosure lol...


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## JayinMI

Yeah, I keep going back and forth...I can keep the old Sony's or get new Arc KS amps.

My first "good" amp was an XM-4040, which I've owned 6 of over the years. Good solid amp. Dead reliable. NO NOISE EVER...even if I ran cheap RCA's with my turn on and power wire all together. lol I've never had any of the Mobile ES stuff until recently, but I figure it can only be better. 

I guess I'll start with the Sony's and if I need to change the layout, or something seems to need more power, I'll sell them and get the Arc amps.

We'll see how it goes.

At this point I really want to get a system in my car, so I can take my vacation....I really need it.

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I was going to back cut the rings on a 45 degree angle, but the mounting hole is slight larger than required, to make it possible to fit some other 3's I was looking at. There seems to be plenty of room for the speakers to breathe.
> 
> I thought I had found the a pillars for $16-20 on a couple of different websites, but when I go to the dealer their computer says dealer cost is like $45...so I must be looking at the wrong thing.
> 
> I'm thinking they'll end up separate at first, but may get molded in in the future.
> 
> Jay


This is very much how I approached it/approaching it too! For Honda, I was super lucky to find hondapartscheap.com, and while there are a couple that might have things marginally less, the awesome part is I can do "local pickup" at the Milpitas Honda dealership (little town near San Jose) and bypass shipping. I think it saves quite a bit especially when shipping pillars and anything large that factors into the total cost.

Anyway, have you thought about how to secure the pods? What about blacking out the window?


----------



## JayinMI

The windows are already tinted to match. I left about a 1/2" open on the back side, so I can do some kind of lit plexi logo.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

papasin said:


> This is very much how I approached it/approaching it too! For Honda, I was super lucky to find hondapartscheap.com, and while there are a couple that might have things marginally less, the awesome part is I can do "local pickup" at the Milpitas Honda dealership (little town near San Jose) and bypass shipping. I think it saves quite a bit especially when shipping pillars and anything large that factors into the total cost.
> 
> Anyway, have you thought about how to secure the pods? What about blacking out the window?


kiapartsoverstock.com was where I found them for my car for like $19 or so...according to the pic, it is the a pillar, but it's so much cheaper than the dealer I go to lists it for, I feel like it must be something else.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, a little more progress today. The customers appear to have spent all their money on back to school stuff for the kids...except for the guy with the $400 '97 Caravan I put 6 12's in today. smh.







You can see that I have the overall shape near what I want (where it meets the existing panel). I'm debating on whether or not to add my Vifa RR tweets to the pod before I finish it up or now...or maybe I'll just rely on the illusion created by leaving the factory tweeter spot on the pillar. lol

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> kiapartsoverstock.com was where I found them for my car for like $19 or so...according to the pic, it is the a pillar, but it's so much cheaper than the dealer I go to lists it for, I feel like it must be something else.
> 
> Jay


About $22 each for Civic pillars plus tax, but no shipping.

Honda Parts OEM 30% Off | No Tax!! Outside California | Honda Dealer Parts

They charge a "handling fee" though, but it's around $3 per order no matter how many items you get. So I usually do things in "bulk", and buy a whole bunch of Honda items. It helps that I have 2 (a Civic & Odyssey), brother has a Pilot, sister has an Odyssey, parents have 2 Civics and they are all in the area lol.


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> OK, a little more progress today. The customers appear to have spent all their money on back to school stuff for the kids...except for the guy with the $400 '97 Caravan I put 6 12's in today. smh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see that I have the overall shape near what I want (where it meets the existing panel). I'm debating on whether or not to add my Vifa RR tweets to the pod before I finish it up or now...or maybe I'll just rely on the illusion created by leaving the factory tweeter spot on the pillar. lol
> 
> Jay


Looking good!


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks. It's coming along...tomorrow isn't looking like it will be real busy either. Just need to figure out if I need to seal off my Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter, or if I can have it share space with the TB 3". 
I might just seal it off, just to be safe.

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> Thanks. It's coming along...tomorrow isn't looking like it will be real busy either. Just need to figure out if I need to seal off my Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter, or if I can have it share space with the TB 3".
> I might just seal it off, just to be safe.
> 
> Jay


I like your plan, since IMHO gives you more flexibility.


----------



## JayinMI

OK, I think I'm going to scrap these, and start over. Since they were originally designed to hold just the 3", it's a lot of work to add the tweeter, and I think I would be better off to start over.

I am also going to try to order new a-pillars w/o tweeters.

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> OK, I think I'm going to scrap these, and start over. Since they were originally designed to hold just the 3", it's a lot of work to add the tweeter, and I think I would be better off to start over.
> 
> I am also going to try to order new a-pillars w/o tweeters.
> 
> Jay


Maybe you can save them in case you ever go with AP or L3SE drivers .


----------



## JayinMI

I'm not really happy with them, either way. I plan to rebuild them with a VERY similar appearance, but cleaner...I didn't have a well thought out plan I just started throwing them together since we were slow at work, and they're coming out rather amateurish, and I think I can do better...plus, I need to make the mounting area for the speakers a little bigger so I can make a grill for them. The hole size/depth should work for the AP drivers, the L3's or my TB's, so I can go with whatever. If I change my mind later and use one of those and ditch the tweeter (or need a spot to mount the AMT) I have it...if I don't need it, I can just make a cover out of ABS or something for the tweeter hole.

Jay


----------



## papasin

Sounds like a plan


----------



## JayinMI

Started the new pods today. I made a template for the tweeter/mid.
I'll get pics up tomorrow.

Jay


----------



## quietfly

i look forward to seeing what you come up with


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks, Quietfly.

OK, here's where I'm at. I started by arming myself with a plan and a shopping list. 

I picked up a piece of 1/2" mdf for the rings, some 2 sided carpet tape for duping the template for my pods, some high density weather stripping, some fiberglass resin, some fiberglass cloth and mat.

Last night before I left work I made a new template for the pods. I didn't get any pics, but here's what I did:
I cut 2 rings...1 for the mid and 1 for the tweeter. then I tacked them down to another piece of 3/8" mdf next to each other. I used my 1/2" flush trim bit on my router to get me 1 piece to hold both speakers. Pretty self-explanatory.

Today, I duped off 2 copies of the template in 1/2".




















Then I cut a 1/4" deep, 1/4" lip that I can attach fabric to.










Then I cut 45 degree angles on the back to give the mid more room to breathe. I did the tweeter hold for the heck of it.



















Then I taped off the pillars (partially) while they were still installed in the car, and marked the outline of my pods.



















I pulled the pillars out of the car and made some 1/2" pieces that fit into the window area on each side.










The reason I put the 1/2" piece in was to leave some space between the window and the back of the pod. I will put them in so they are flush with the back of the panel, and then when I tape off the whole area I will have a space leftover after I pull the mold. This gives me some room to do a light up logo or something...or I can mod the back of the pod later when I change speakers, if I need a little more depth.

I bought some high density 3/16" weatherstipping, and I'm going to stick that down to give me a lip along the outer boundaries of the pod...then tape off everything...once I pull the mold, I will have nice sharp markings of where to trim back to.

These should turn out much better than before.

I hope I can keep the shape very similar.

Jay


----------



## quietfly

looking REALLY REALLY good.... I wish i had the Skills and Time to do something similar


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Got the fiberglass molds made. I used 3M resin from Home Depot. They used to have Bondo brand, but now they just had this. And I like it. It is a little thicker than the "good" laminating resin I used on the last ones.

On the first setup, I had a gap at the bottom that (I think) came from gravity pulling the fiberglass away from the bottom of the opening. This time the first layer in that area I used fiberglass cloth instead of mat. it laid out nice and was relatively easy to fold over the end so gravity can't pull it away. I did about 4 layers on both pods. The fiberglass laid out nicer than the first ones.

I'm going to make a dummy speaker with a hole in the center for my laser pointer, so I can line everything up tomorrow.

Here's some pics from the progress:
































































Sorry the last two are so dark, my phone doesn't have a flash and it was getting dark out.

Jay


----------



## nadams5755

i'm looking forward to seeing how it finishes up.


----------



## JayinMI

Me too. I'm starting to think I might attempt to put the midbasses in the dash.
That should keep my stage height up high.

Jay


----------



## quietfly

Sweet. Looks like its going to be great!


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> I'm starting to think I might attempt to put the midbasses in the dash.
> That should keep my stage height up high.
> 
> Jay


----------



## takeabao

This looks very promising.


----------



## JayinMI

Once I get these done, I will do a little more in depth investigating to see if I can fit my RS180's in the dash (w/enclosures?) w/o cutting metal. I was thinking aperiodic (possibly), but somehow I imagine having the AP vent into the dash would cause some weird sonic effects.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Took my molds, cut them down. covered the insides in a layer of hushmat, lined the corners with ductseal impregnated with BB's, then another layer of hushmat to keep the ductseal/bb's in place.




























Stretched some fabric to get my basic shape.










added a couple of layers of cloth/resin.










Taped off my speakers. Used fiberglass reinforced filler to make an edge and get my basic shape.




























I would have preferred to shape it better before it fully setup, but it was time to go home.

Here it is in the car, so far. Sorry for the dark pics, phone has no flash.










Jay


----------



## JayinMI

For some reason, the pods aren't symmetrical. I aimed the pods to fire a little bit above the a pillar, and for some reason when they were symmetrical, they didn't point at the same spot.

I used a small jig I made of ABS that holds a laser pointer.

Jay


----------



## focused313

not a fan of the car, but what you've done definitely made it better than it was. As far as the interior sound.....great job so far. Something is telling me to just take my bezel to Car Tunes to have it fiberglassed.


----------



## JayinMI

Best car in it's class for the money. Trust me, I drove them all. Second was the 6 speed Sonic Turbo. I even looked at Focuses and Fiestas but the interiors are so awful, I couldn't bring myself to do it.

It's getting there. What are you trying to fiberglass your bezel for? What kind of car? (I assume a Focus?) Since the kits all fit (or can easily be made to fit) a double din onall the Focuses I've seen, I assume you have something more involved in mind.

Jay


----------



## papasin

Liking the progress.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

LOVE the amps! HUGE ES fan, only thing that would top this install off is an XES P1/X1/T1. 

I'm in, cant wait to see what you come up with.


----------



## JayinMI

I kept looking at my pods with the unfinished Easy Glass on them and thinking how ugly they were, and how much work it was going to be to get them how I wanted them...and thinking of starting over. 

But we were slow at work, and I got some time to work on them.
Now I can see the light at the end of the tunnel! (for the pods anyway.)














































Sorry about the reflection in the last one, I was trying to show how nice the fit was along the edge on top.

Jay


----------



## Lymen

Looks 1000% better with both tweet/mid combo, fills the space very nicely, and looks stock, cant wait to see them done!

Lymen


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks.

I was thinking of working on them tomorrow (day off), but the only filler I have is about 4.5 years old, so it's probably no good. lol

We'll see how things go on Wednesday.

Jay


----------



## papasin




----------



## Eskil

Hi Jay
The a-pillar trims are very cheap in Korea. I paid 15$ including local shipping for two including the tweeter down there. So I don't doubt the 15$/ea price you got.


----------



## subwoofery

Wondering how long does a vinyl on the roof last... 

Thanks, 
Kelvin


----------



## JayinMI

@subwoofery: When I looked into doing the roof, I saw alot of the better stuff was rated for 5 years, but that was on a vertical surface, and there were a bunch of things that might make it not last as long. The average seems to be 1-3 years depending on where you live. It only cost about $150ish for the vinyl, and if I get 3 years out of it, I'll be happy. You aren't supposed to take it through the car wash either, but I have been lately and it seems to be holding up reasonably well.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks, Eskil...but I think I'm going to stick with what I have, for now. But I'm glad to know that they might be that cheap.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Been plugging away on the pods...but we've been busier the last 2 weeks or so. I plan to get them in filler and/or primer sometime this week. 

Money's been tight....figured out a way to use the ENT tubing with PVC tubing ends, so I can run my power wire under the car safely.

I think I'm going to need more 4ga, more techflex, and I need to buy another JL Audio Blue RCA so I have enough ends to make new RCA's.

Things haven't gone quite as smoothly as I'd like, but I hope to have it ready for next season...

Jay


----------



## req

i love cars with that extra window. if it were me, i would get some real nice coaxial 5.25 component set - just the thought of having that kind of space up top makes it so easy lol.

keep it up man!

keep those speakers as wide as you can too


----------



## JayinMI

Progress!


















































































Jay


----------



## JayinMI

After the primer dried, I put them in to see what I thought. Passenger side still needs a little work to fit as well as the driver's side. There might be an obstruction on the back of it.



















Getting there...

Jay


----------



## FartinInTheTub

Wow! Those look fantastic.


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks! I left a little room on the edges in case I decide to mold them into the panel later...this also gives me the option of testing them out before I make anything permanent.

Jay


----------



## SoulMan76

Nice work, and thumbs up from a fellow KIA owner..I hope to get enough skill to build some pillars one day. Yours came out great.


----------



## JayinMI

Started my sub box.

Here's the inner frame:










Then I duped a couple more frames for the outer half.
Here's all of them:










I mounted the inner piece, marked the factory panel and cut it out. I don't have any pics of the cut. I plan to trim it with my flush trim router bit.

More pics soon.

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

REALLY NICE WORK.


----------



## JayinMI

Well, I got the plastic cut out, and tried to test fit some subs...looking like I may have to go with an Alpine Type R SWR-823d....Looks like I have the room to go ported...should do ok on about 400 watts, lol.

It was about the only thing we have that I would run that could clear the fender well and still be relatively flush.

I could probably do an SI BM Mk III, if I could find one.

Jay


----------



## subwoofery

JayinMI said:


> Well, I got the plastic cut out, and tried to test fit some subs...looking like I may have to go with an Alpine Type R SWR-823d....Looks like I have the room to go ported...should do ok on about 400 watts, lol.
> 
> It was about the only thing we have that I would run that could clear the fender well and still be relatively flush.
> 
> I could probably do an SI BM Mk III, if I could find one.
> 
> Jay


Found this sub a few days ago: 
P AUDIO_UFO 12 
specs 

Modelled in WinISD and it has a nice curve comparable to the SI BM mkIII but in a slightly larger box (0.8-0.9cuft) with 400rms

Kelvin


----------



## JayinMI

I see they make a 10, also....But I'd like to hear one (or read several reviews) before I plop down the cash for one...I know the Type R has gotten good reviews, and we carry them (well, we can special order them.)

Jay


----------



## subwoofery

JayinMI said:


> I see they make a 10, also....But I'd like to hear one (or read several reviews) before I plop down the cash for one...I know the Type R has gotten good reviews, and we carry them (well, we can special order them.)
> 
> Jay


Don't think you'll see many reviews unless you're in Europe and can read german or russian (the Pulsar is made by Wavecor for P.Audio) 
Specs looks really good and price is really attractive knowing the price of Neodymium nowadays... You can get 2 of those for the price of 1 x SWR-T12 
If I did not already had 2 x RE Audio SL10 and 2 x BM mkIII, I would see no problem going with those Pulsars 

The Pulsar-12 is more than USD500 in Australia so you're really getting a nice product at a nice price in US 

Kelvin


----------



## trojan fan

Kelvin, you need to order one up and spend a little one on one time with it, then report back with your opinion....

new forum boner sub?


----------



## subwoofery

trojan fan said:


> Kelvin, you need to order one up and spend a little one on one time with it, then report back with your opinion....
> 
> new forum boner sub?


Wish I could but I'm saving up to buy 2 amps for my next project... and am already set for subwoofers. Already have too much sh!t here so my girl asked me to at least install some of the stuffs in her car 

Kelvin


----------



## 58458

Could also look at the illusion audio Lucent 10 it's compact and easy


Pioneer/focal/digital designs


----------



## JayinMI

I don't really care for the Pioneer Shallows. I'm not locked into anything yet, so I'm keeping my eyes open. Thanks for the suggestions.

Jay


----------



## stef600rr

damn... works on the pillars are amazing! congrats


----------



## JayinMI

Looks like my old phone is going to sell...so now I can start looking at subs.
Yay.

Jay


----------



## quietfly

sweet!!


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Vacation starts tomorrow. I WILL achieve *something* on my car. lol Highs in the mid 40's all week. yay. 

Jay


----------



## Chaos

Those pods do look nice.


----------



## JayinMI

They will eventually get wrapped or molded in and wrapped if they work out. But for now they look decent. I'm pretty happy with them.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, so far I have not achieved anything, except to see that I might be able to fit my Dayton 10 in that spot in the back. I'll have to redo the wood frame pieces I made, but I think it can work....either that or I steal my GF's 8w3v3-4 out of her Jeep. Or I order an Alpine SWR-823d....I even looked at the Dayton RSS210HO-4, and it goes a little lower than the alpine, but it is about 2dB lower volume....The 10 Dayton plots almost identically to the Alpine Type-R 8 in the same .55 cu. ft. box.

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> OK, so far I have not achieved anything, except to see that I might be able to fit my Dayton 10 in that spot in the back. I'll have to redo the wood frame pieces I made, but I think it can work....either that or I steal my GF's 8w3v3-4 out of her Jeep. Or I order an Alpine SWR-823d....I even looked at the Dayton RSS210HO-4, and it goes a little lower than the alpine, but it is about 2dB lower volume....The 10 Dayton plots almost identically to the Alpine Type-R 8 in the same .55 cu. ft. box.
> 
> Jay


As you probably are aware, my wife's Smart went from an 8w3v3-4 to an Alpine SWR-843d. For the most part, it's an improvement, but I would not say it is drastic. The Alpine goes lower and stays tighter, but if your GF isn't using the 8w3, it should yield decent results in similar enclosure volumes...at least IME .


----------



## JayinMI

She's using it. lol. Problem I've been running into is finding an 8 that will handle the 300-400 watts I plan to run it with, AND fit in the VERY limited space I have to work with. I've looked at Alpine, Sundown, SKAR and a couple of others. But I've been modelling the Type-R and my current Dayton 10 HO in WinISD, and they model VERY similar in the same sized enclosure. Honestly the Dayton has a little more output in the midbass region, but rolls off about 1 or 2 Hz earlier than the Type R, but has a more gradual slope. So, I think I'm going to give it a shot. If I don't have to spend the money, why bother?
I plan to make it so I can swap the front part of the enclosure if I want...or need to later. Then I don't have to start completely over if it sucks.

Jay


----------



## req

Cone area is always king in my book. 

I would rather have a larger speaker with less xmax than a smaller one with more. I would do a shallow 10 or 12 over a beefy 8. 

There are tons of great and cheap products out there that fit the bill.


----------



## JayinMI

Yeah, I've actually heard good things about the MB Quart shallow stuff, and had considered using one of them. My plan is to build the box in such a way that the front and rear bolt together and I can change the front later if I want to try different subs...or I can make an adapter ring to try an 8 if I want. It seemed the most flexible way to go.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, working in 35 degree weather outside sucks. I got my new frame made, taped off the back of the car for glassing and froze my ass off. lol
I think I'm going to try to lay some glass tomorrow and just leave my small ceramic heater in the back to keep it warm. Maybe the cold temps will give me a little more working time. Regardless, it looks like the 10 will fit, so it's going.


Jay


----------



## JayinMI

He looks worried, cause he knows what's next!





































Jay


----------



## trojan fan

JayinMI said:


> OK, working in 35 degree weather outside sucks



You need to move out west, we have 300 plus days a year of sunshine


----------



## JayinMI

trojan fan said:


> You need to move out west, we have 300 plus days a year of sunshine


Yes. Yes I do.

Jay


----------



## papasin

trojan fan said:


> You need to move out west, we have 300 plus days a year of sunshine





JayinMI said:


> Yes. Yes I do.
> 
> Jay


But then you won't get your volume of remote start installs lol.


----------



## JayinMI

That's ok, I bet it'd be easier to find people who spend some money instead of the $500 2 12"/amp/box package all day long.


----------



## JayinMI

Little more work...going slow because of the crappy weather.


----------



## Miniboom

Creds to you, I hate working in cold weather!

I tried spray painting my box the other day. Turned out, it's too cold. So... it doesn't look particularly good at all. In fact, it looks so crappy, I have to think of another design, because I can't carpet the cutout I've now wasted hours on.

I hope you have better luck with your "heated fan-fiberglassing"!


----------



## Whiskeyface

papasin said:


> But then you won't get your volume of remote start installs lol.


remote start for the AC to kick on in phoenix is a MUST. :laugh: its all about where our west you go. vegas is the same way. stupid hot.


----------



## papasin

Whiskeyface said:


> remote start for the AC to kick on in phoenix is a MUST. :laugh: its all about where our west you go. vegas is the same way. stupid hot.


Not here, which is where Jay commented on one of my threads how he doesn't/didn't get why we don't have many people in the SF Bay Area who get remote starts installed. We just don't have that much of a temperature variance, not to mention weather here is relatively dry, and never gets too hot or too cold...just right :laugh:.


----------



## bryanlim10

Could you please tell me how did you get the stereo out? I've been searching everywhere for ages but I can't find anything!


----------



## JayinMI

The bezel around the radio just pops off. I used a plastic pry tool and started at the bottom and carefully worked my way around. There are 4 screws holding the radio in. Check out kiatechinfo.com. You can set up a free account and then you can look up wiring diagrams, assembly and disassembly instructions, etc. It's REAL handy.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

To get the front of my radio off, I removed my glove compartment, and then pushed the picture frame from the rear side. Also, if you adjust the steering weel as low as it goes, you can access some of the front plate better in the instrument aerea.


----------



## JayinMI

I didn't have to do anything with my glovebox. I didn't even have to open it.
Maybe we have different cars...Mine is a late '12 Kia Rio Hatchback (internal designation UB). If yours is an early '12, the car is completely different.

If you are just saying you pushed it from behind, that works too. I have plastic pry tools for work, and they worked fine.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

Hi Jay

I realized that I couldn't remove the front panel from the front side without making dents , just using a screwdriver with insulating tape. But maybe that can be done, if you fully lower the steering weel. But as I wrote, I just pushed from the back side - don't push the radio (it's screw mounted), push the picture frame.

I have the UB model too - it was in the car stores from november/december '11, maybe just for demo. I ordered mine in january, got it in may. I've made subs for under the seats, bought tweeter A-pillars i Korea, damped the car, made some analog filtering to take out some harshness around 4kHz. At some point I'll also make mid+tweet i the a-pillar windows. As I have extra A-pillar plastic covers (and I'm not fond of fiber glass work), I plan to make it "destructively" in one of the sets.


----------



## Eskil

Dear Jay

I've measured the HU frequency response. It is strongly equalized, especially when powertreble is on. You will need some DSP to flatten that HU frequency reponse for your nice system.

Please see here:
Modified Sound system and door damping - Kia Owners Club Forums - Page 8


----------



## JayinMI

That's why I have the BitOne. Of course, I'm making some changes to some things right now (and will post pics when I'm done).
Thanks for the heads up.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

Good to hear you're still alive!
My own project is evolving too slowly currently..
I forgot you had the BitOne, but still, especially if you plan to play using the power treble preset, there'll be a lot of equalizing to "undo".

I like the power treble preset, it does something really nice to the stereo perspective at both front seats at the same time. I tried to measure phase (=delay) during my measurements, but the delay was too long for the measurement system to measure it. It would be interesting to know what they do. An interesting thing is that R and L channel is equalized the same way, so all differences are in delay. Also, I measured with input on one channel to both outputs at the same time. And there's no "add a little minus L to R" or the like in any frequency bands. So all stereo manipulation is done with delays - though they might be frequency dependant delays.

Your design is really nice and encouraging. It'll be amazing, when it's done. A pity it's so far to come to listen to it..
Happy new year!


----------



## DAT

Sub'd to see what Jay does!


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks!

I hope I won't be keeping anyone waiting too much longer. I need to wait for the rest of my SparkFun order to continue. Remote start season has been kinda busy so far and I just put a new Pioneer AVH-X3500BHS in the GF's Jeep to replace the AVIC-F90BT that was in there.

NeilJ has given me some ideas from his CarPC build thread too.
I'm not looking for a CarPC, but he's using a lot of Arduino stuff too.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

I'm having an "What would you guys do?" moment...

Currently, the plan is to run the mids and tweets (1ch each) off of a Sony Mobile ES XM-5046. (estimate, 50w/ch on the tweets, probably around 35w/ch on the 3's), a Sony Mobile ES XM-2100g (100w/ch) to my Dayton 7's and another XM-2100g bridged (around 360w) to my Dayton 10" sub.
I like the fact all of these amps are class A/B, somewhat unique nowadays, and are clean as hell.

But...

I'm thinking of going with some Arc Audio KS amps instead:

KS 300.4 (about 90w/ch to the tweets, probably around 60-75w/ch on the 3's), another KS 300.4 bridged to something like 360w/ch on the midbasses and a KS 300.2 bridged to about 600 w to the sub.

I like these amps. They're dynamic as hell, would give me a ton of headroom and are physically smaller. But they're class G/H (a variation on Class D as I was told), so I don't know if they're as clean as the ES's. They also match my planned color scheme. I'd probably have to replace all of my speakers, tho.

Sooooo.....

What would you do?

Jay


----------



## papasin

Uh oh. Jay, you sure you want to open up Pandora's box and start an amp topology debate? 

You know you're going to get the two camps of all amps sound alike so long as gains are set correctly vs. I'll swear by my A/B amps, right?


----------



## JayinMI

We all know the "All amps sound the same" people are crazy. lol
Frankly, I've previously had a JL HD 900/5 which I liked very much, and I've installed a ton of other class D amps that only sounded OK. The KS amps actually sound very good and have remarkable dynamics. I haven't gotten to hear them in an SQ oriented install yet, tho. 

Jay


----------



## papasin

Careful . Doesn't Scott Buwalda and Mark Eldridge run JL HD amps in their championship IASCA and MECA cars?

I'm just messing with you. I say go with what you think . As a data point, I just got to audition those KS amps in an exact Civic sedan as mine built by Bing, also with a 6to8 and the Illusion Carbon C6s. Was ok, but the tune and the stock locations based on my experience were probably what didn't impress me vs. the gear. My $0.02 FWIW is that the tune and install will be a lot more important than the amps, especially since you will be using a BitOne.


----------



## WrenchGuy

Lookin real good man.


----------



## JayinMI

papasin said:


> Careful . Doesn't Scott Buwalda and Mark Eldridge run JL HD amps in their championship IASCA and MECA cars?
> 
> I'm just messing with you. I say go with what you think . As a data point, I just got to audition those KS amps in an exact Civic sedan as mine built by Bing, also with a 6to8 and the Illusion Carbon C6s. Was ok, but the tune and the stock locations based on my experience were probably what didn't impress me vs. the gear. My $0.02 FWIW is that the tune and install will be a lot more important than the amps, especially since you will be using a BitOne.


Guess I'll be selling some stuff...lol

And @Wrenchguy...thanks. Looking forward to more progress on yours.

Jay


----------



## papasin

Just curious, why more power to the tweets vs. the mids?


----------



## JayinMI

8 ohm mids. Rated to handle 12 watts. lol


----------



## WrenchGuy

JayinMI said:


> Guess I'll be selling some stuff...lol
> 
> And @Wrenchguy...thanks. Looking forward to more progress on yours.
> 
> Jay


yeah Im trying to come up with a creative way to mount the pods to the A pillar.......:undecided:


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> Guess I'll be selling some stuff...lol


Oh, and to be clear, when I said go with what you think, I meant that ultimately really up to you (not saying the KS is any better than what you got on hand).

As you know, in my Civic, I did the opposite...switching from all Class D amps to what I'm running now...and effectively "downgraded" the amount of total power. But in the current setup, I am being an equal opportunity amp topology person lol...A-class on the Nz3s, Zero3 (A/B) on the Arians, and PDX-M6 (D) on the sub . 

My overall take is changing the other things probably net me more of a noticeable improvement (i.e. the new processor and speakers)...but my take is the Mosconi amps have plenty of clean power for what they are rated for to go with my needs (i.e. even the A-class, though rated at 100Wx2 is plenty even head to head vs. the PPI900.4 that it's replacing that was being bridged at 450Wx2). People talk about A/B vs. D....but I guess not many discuss A vs. D which is essentially the comparison for my widebanders .

Bottomline, I'm sure whatever you decide, it will be all good...with likely the processor/tuning, your install, and speakers being more critical factors.


----------



## Eskil

Dear Jay

I develop class-D amplifiers for the living in a company highly respected for that. But as I'm senior R&D engineer and not in sales, I hope my comments are relatively neutral.

Basicly, you can make amplifiers in a lot of ways, and make them sound anything from good to bad, based on how good you are at it, and how much money and space you can spend. But some amplifier topologies are harder to make well than others.

Class AB amplifiers are the easiest to make well. There is switching as it isn't class A, but the distortions can be reduced well. Some companies use ClassAB for the high frequencies, as it is easier to make good treble in class AB than D, and the power demand is lower for the high frequencies.

Class G and H vary the supply to the amplifier with full signal speed to reduce loss=heat.
This modulates the signal, and will make intermodulation. Also, there will be delay in the power supply adjustment, this will make the compensation by loop gain more difficult.
I would expect lots of dynamics from Class G/H, but please listen for intermodulation: Ear-tireing sound, "noise between the instruments" in the stereo perspective, to see if the given AMP is well made.
Class G/H is currently mainly used in subs and automotive. It is not widespread in the sound quality critical businesses, high end Hifi etc, by this I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that I'm currently only meeting it as a competitor in the lower SQ end.

Class D also have the problem of delay, making the feed-back compensation more difficult - the leading class-D manufacturers spend most of their research time here (and patent work), so its difficult for small players to make good amps.
The delay, the switching noise, power supply dependance gives problems here. EMI is also an issue, but the aftermarket business isn't really regulated here.
Listen for ear tireing sound, noise between instruments, un natural sound, especially in the high frequencies.

So in general I'd say: your listening is more important than the topology. Sometimes you get fooled as the new topology typically make a different kind of errors.


----------



## subwoofery

Eskil said:


> Dear Jay
> 
> I develop class-D amplifiers for the living in a company highly respected for that. But as I'm senior R&D engineer and not in sales, I hope my comments are relatively neutral.
> 
> Basicly, you can make amplifiers in a lot of ways, and make them sound anything from good to bad, based on how good you are at it, and how much money and space you can spend. But some amplifier topologies are harder to make well than others.
> 
> Class AB amplifiers are the easiest to make well. There is switching as it isn't class A, but the distortions can be reduced well. Some companies use ClassAB for the high frequencies, as it is easier to make good treble in class AB than D, and the power demand is lower for the high frequencies.
> 
> Class G and H vary the supply to the amplifier with full signal speed to reduce loss=heat.
> This modulates the signal, and will make intermodulation. Also, there will be delay in the power supply adjustment, this will make the compensation by loop gain more difficult.
> I would expect lots of dynamics from Class G/H, but please listen for intermodulation: Ear-tireing sound, "noise between the instruments" in the stereo perspective, to see if the given AMP is well made.
> Class G/H is currently mainly used in subs and automotive. It is not widespread in the sound quality critical businesses, high end Hifi etc, by this I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that I'm currently only meeting it as a competitor in the lower SQ end.
> 
> Class D also have the problem of delay, making the feed-back compensation more difficult - the leading class-D manufacturers spend most of their research time here (and patent work), so its difficult for small players to make good amps.
> The delay, the switching noise, power supply dependance gives problems here. EMI is also an issue, but the aftermarket business isn't really regulated here.
> Listen for ear tireing sound, noise between instruments, un natural sound, especially in the high frequencies.
> 
> So in general I'd say: your listening is more important than the topology. Sometimes you get fooled as the new topology typically make a different kind of errors.


Interesting post... Thank you 

I have to ask though... Can the delay be heard when you compare 1 amp (bad delay) to another (good design)? Many on this forum will argue that if gains are set correctly, there is no difference in amps - meaning all amps sound the same and don't have a sound signature...

Kelvin 

PS: OP, can take it out to PMs if you don't want a mess in your thread


----------



## DAT

Eskil said:


> Dear Jay
> 
> I develop class-D amplifiers for the living in a company highly respected for that. But as I'm senior R&D engineer and not in sales, I hope my comments are relatively neutral.
> 
> Basicly, you can make amplifiers in a lot of ways, and make them sound anything from good to bad, based on how good you are at it, and how much money and space you can spend. But some amplifier topologies are harder to make well than others.
> 
> Class AB amplifiers are the easiest to make well. There is switching as it isn't class A, but the distortions can be reduced well. Some companies use ClassAB for the high frequencies, as it is easier to make good treble in class AB than D, and the power demand is lower for the high frequencies.
> 
> Class G and H vary the supply to the amplifier with full signal speed to reduce loss=heat.
> This modulates the signal, and will make intermodulation. Also, there will be delay in the power supply adjustment, this will make the compensation by loop gain more difficult.
> I would expect lots of dynamics from Class G/H, but please listen for intermodulation: Ear-tireing sound, "noise between the instruments" in the stereo perspective, to see if the given AMP is well made.
> Class G/H is currently mainly used in subs and automotive. It is not widespread in the sound quality critical businesses, high end Hifi etc, by this I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that I'm currently only meeting it as a competitor in the lower SQ end.
> 
> Class D also have the problem of delay, making the feed-back compensation more difficult - the leading class-D manufacturers spend most of their research time here (and patent work), so its difficult for small players to make good amps.
> The delay, the switching noise, power supply dependance gives problems here. EMI is also an issue, but the aftermarket business isn't really regulated here.
> Listen for ear tireing sound, noise between instruments, un natural sound, especially in the high frequencies.
> 
> So in general I'd say: your listening is more important than the topology. Sometimes you get fooled as the new topology typically make a different kind of errors.



:thumbsup:


----------



## Eskil

Dear Jay, I certainly hope this won't jam your excellent thread. Just a comment to Subwooferys post:
The delay I'm talking about isn't really an audible delay. All active amplifier components make errors. This is normally corrected by a technique called feedback. Imagine someone in the shower, they say the water is too hot, you turn down the heat, then they say a bit too cold, and you turn it a bit up again. If they react very slowly, it will make a problem for the adjustment accuracy and speed, and you have to make a very intelligent communication to adjust quickly and precisely anyways - you'll have to adjust almost right based on a single shout. I don't want to start a discussion about feedback, great sounding (expensive) amplifiers are made with lots of global feedback and limited or none. And please understand that the allegory above is a bit rough.
The delay I was mentioning is a problem for making very good and fast error-correction, not _directly_ for sound. But please use same amplifier for the same unit in both sides


----------



## JayinMI

Nope, it's interesting info, and I'm all for it. If it gets out of hand, I'll say something. lol.

Jay


----------



## subwoofery

Eskil said:


> Dear Jay, I certainly hope this won't jam your excellent thread. Just a comment to Subwooferys post:
> The delay I'm talking about isn't really an audible delay. All active amplifier components make errors. This is normally corrected by a technique called feedback. Imagine someone in the shower, they say the water is too hot, you turn down the heat, then they say a bit too cold, and you turn it a bit up again. If they react very slowly, it will make a problem for the adjustment accuracy and speed, and you have to make a very intelligent communication to adjust quickly and precisely anyways - you'll have to adjust almost right based on a single shout. I don't want to start a discussion about feedback, great sounding (expensive) amplifiers are made with lots of global feedback and limited or none. And please understand that the allegory above is a bit rough.
> The delay I was mentioning is a problem for making very good and fast error-correction, not _directly_ for sound. But please use same amplifier for the same unit in both sides


Thanks for the info  

Kelvin


----------



## Eskil

That's cool 
When you listen to an extraordinary dynamic amplifier, please listen for what happens, when they are dynamic. I've listened to (and made prototype) amplifiers that surpriced with their dynamic sound. When I've listened more closely, there can be an "extra sound/noise" during transients, making it (fakely)sound more "energetic" during transients.
So when you experience something "unusual", listen for if the unusual stuff behaves well.


----------



## subwoofery

Eskil said:


> That's cool
> When you listen to an extraordinary dynamic amplifier, please listen for what happens, when they are dynamic. I've listened to (and made prototype) amplifiers that surpriced with their dynamic sound. When I've listened more closely, there can be an "extra sound/noise" during transients, making it (fakely)sound more "energetic" during transients.
> So when you experience something "unusual", listen for if the unusual stuff behaves well.


Below is a few test done on amps to show their headroom/dynamics capabilities - 40ms impulse tone 









Wondering if you've ever done a test like this and would like to know if you can "see" what you described in your post (extra sound/noise) 

Thanks, 
Kelvin


----------



## Eskil

Hi Subwoofery

Interesting suggestion. I'm not sure I fully understand how those measurements are done - it looks like it is a 40ms burst of 5 simultaneous frequencies, and then a 40ms long FFT is made and pictured in a line.
The volume is turned 0.2dB up, and the same thing is done again. Do you have a desciption of the test from that italian magazine?

I haven't made such a test, and I'm not sure I can get sufficient headroom in a single, un-averaged 40ms FFT to see what we're interested in. The "noise" might be very short. But it's worth a try.


----------



## JayinMI

Not much of an update, but after trying a couple of different ideas with no luck, I finally ordered something to finish my current project. It may not be the elegant solution I was hoping for, but it will work, so I can move on.

I started off by purchasing an Arduino Uno R3...and learning a little C++. 
I found the wires for my factory steering wheel controls, and learning a little about electronics so I could add the required components to interface the Arduino with them.

Basically I used an analog input to read the voltage of each of the buttons and then compare them. If they are anything other than Volume up, Volume Down, or Mode (and potentially Mute later) then it will trigger a relay with a coinciding resistor tied to it so it will function as if the button was pressed. If it is any of the other buttons, I will use digital outputs to simulate the rotary encoder and some of the buttons on my BitOne DRC. 

This will allow my steering wheel buttons to function as a master volume control. The Mode button will switch modes (analog and optical), and possibly EQ presets depending on how I write the code. 

Here's the link to the relay board I bought.

I2C Bus Small Relay, 5V, PCF8574A [EI2C-9AIA] : ERE Company Limited.,www.ereshop.com, The electronics and ideas

A little pricey, but already assembled and will definitely do what I want.

I also ordered a new red on black display from Sparkfun:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/791

This display should be a pretty close match to the rest of my gauges. 

That will be a little harder to use, since I don't have a pinout for the display on the BitOne DRC display.

And a new soldering station and some miscellaneous parts.

Hopefully I'll have it all working in the next few weeks once the relay board arrives.

Jay


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## quietfly

ooh this should be a nice mod once it's done..


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## JayinMI

I also found points on the board marked "SPDIF+" and "SPDIF-". I'm hoping I can use them to add an optical out to the factory radio.

I already bought the Toshiba Toslink transmitter to do it.

Jay


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## JayinMI

OK, I ordered the relay board from a place in Thailand on Friday morning. I ordered a soldering station from Sparkfun at the same time. The relay board is out for delivery, and is estimated to be here by 10:30am today...the soldering station should be here tomorrow, from COLORADO?!? Both shipped FedEx. 


Edit: package from Thailand arrived at 9:45am. lol

Jay


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## stylngle2003

That happened to me also. I ordered a textbook from Hong Kong on a Monday, and some gifts from Vickie's Secret (for her, not me) (in Kentucky) the same day. The book arrived Thursday, the panties arrived the following Tuesday.


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## JayinMI

I suppose the stuff from Victoria's Secret could have been for you, depending on how you look at it. lol

Jay


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## stylngle2003

well put. i didn't buy it to never look at it, if ya know what i mean!


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## JayinMI

OK, got a little time in and soldered up a prototype board for my resistance ladder, while testing, one "button" did nothing, and another appeared to do nothing. The one that did nothing is the one that activates the voice recognition, the other was "On hook"...but I wasn't on a phone call, so it may be fine.

When checking terminals this morning, I found that on of the terminals had no resistance, so when I get back from the movies, I'll look into that. Hopefully just a cold solder joint.


I will fashion up some buttons/connectors so I can test the, w/o actually using a straight pick tool to short the connectors.

Once I get that worked out, I can move on to integrating with the relay board (which shouldn't be horrible.)

After that, next thing is to get a power supply or battery so I can start working on my DRC, but I need the BitOne to be on to check some stuff first.

I'll get pics of my prototype board up later. Once everything is finalized, I will design (or have some helpful soul design) a PCB and I already found all of my resistance values available in 1% tolerance Panasonic 1206 Surface Mount resistors. 

As a side note, I wonder if I could use an Android shield with the Arduino and use a tablet, but have the steering wheel controls work on the tablet? Hmmm....

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, since everyone likes pics, here they are:

Here's my diagram of the circuit: 










The bottom line that says "Out" goes to the steering wheel control wire on the head unit.
The input wire is ground (on top). Edit: just realized I don't have all 9 functions listed on the diagram. Oops.

Here's the top of the circuit board, don't mind the pins across the bottom, I put those in upside down, and they are non-functional.










I couldn't find an 8.2k ohm resistor locally, but a 10k and 47k in parallel got me in the area (thus the two resistors right next to each other.)

And here's the bottom (it's not pretty, but it's functional.)










Basically, I will be able to install 2 pin jumpers for each function, and connect them to the relay board I have. Then I will program the Arduino to activate the appropriate relay, thus closing the switch and completing the circuit. I'm tested it with a small pigtail and a button and all the functions work like they're supposed to. The reason one of them wasn't working, is I apparently didn't get enough solder on the connection, so the wire wasn't actually soldered the the resistor legs. Oops.

When I design the actual board with the SM resistors, it will be MUCH smaller. Right now, it's about 3"x1.5"...I could probably get it to 1.25"x.5" or so after designing a new PCB. I may also include my 7812 and 7805 voltage regulators to power the Arduino and the relay board, respectively.

The nice thing about going this way (using a relay board), instead of futzing with a DAC is that I don't have to mod the HU, and I can add a Metra SWC later, if I were to change the radio, and still use my circuit.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

JayinMI said:


> I also found points on the board marked "SPDIF+" and "SPDIF-". I'm hoping I can use them to add an optical out to the factory radio.
> 
> I already bought the Toshiba Toslink transmitter to do it.
> 
> Jay


I've also noted that the chipset in the radio has a "S/PDIF out" pin, without any guarantee that a signal is actually routed to it. I'd better investigate it.

But I can confirm that it is a "digital" radio chip, everything is converted to digital. The datasheet for the chip is only supplied under NDA, so I've only seen a short version.


----------



## JayinMI

Let me (us) know what you find out. I'd VERY MUCH like to run optical all the way back to my BitOne and run VERY short RCA's to my amps. My theory is that it will work, because I know some of the cars use S/PDIF inputs for the factory amp. I am under the impression that perhaps the UVO stuff is all basically the same, with different faces to fit different cars.

The steering wheel control interface isn't going as quickly as I'd like, but I feel like I'm still making progress.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

I expect to get the time to look at it during the easter-days.
The main chip is highly programmable, so if there's something routed to the pins, then let's see what it is. S/Pdif + and - could sound like something prepared to drive a trafo for cabled s/pdif, but that doesn't prevent adding a toslink TX.
The OEM headunits I've dealt with using optical cable, used the MOST bus. I haven't seen toslink TX/RX suitable for the automotive approval/temperature range (but no doubt they would work under normal conditions)


----------



## JayinMI

When I looked into it before, basically all the info I found said that S/PDIF and Toslink used the same protocol, but S/PDIF sent the signal via coaxial wire, where Toslink used digital light pulses via fiberoptic cable. 

I have a little bit left on the steering wheel control interface, then I need to work on integrating the BitOne DRC, after that I will worry about the optical output.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

The toslink TX is very easy to use, it just needs 5V or 3.3V depending on model, and then signal.
Driving the 75ohm cable is much more complicated. I have taken my radio front plate off, and will investigate it soon. 
Did you buy the 3.3V or 5V toslink transmitter?


----------



## Eskil

Dear Jay

You'll find my photo of the mainboard of the radio here:
I don't see any spdif signal labels. Where did you see them?









I've been looking everywhere for the datasheet for that NXP SAF7741, but I only find a block diagram here:

http://www.nxp.com/documents/leaflet/75016755.pdf
It specifies spdif in, I2S in and out. To convert I2S to spdif is not extremely simple. Sure, you can do it with a wolfson or cirrus chip, but without a pinout, I hesitate a little..


----------



## Eskil

In-depth:
We have the mediaplayer chip, telechips TCC8002 for playing mp3 and probably CD.
It outputs digital audio (I2S or spdif) to the NXP IC SAF7741.
That IC is second stage in radio reception (using a new way to recieve analog radio in a digital IC). It also makes signal processing and volume, and converts to analog.

The analog line level output signal is found on the bottom end of C138-140. It is DC-offset by 1.65V - not surpricing, coming from a 3.3V supplied IC.

The signal then goes to the 4ch power amplifier chip beside the connector.

It could maybe be possible to tap an spdif signal out of the media player. This would be a linear signal, without volume control and radio.

There's no datasheet for the IC, so it's not easy. If it's an unconnected pin it's not possible, as it is a BGA.

On the NXP IC they don't spec a spdif out. The IC is coated, so you can't probe around for the signal without breaking the coating. 
I've found the line out, but you would need to buffer it before taking it out, and is it worth messing with your radio to avoid the power amp and line level back-conversion? Dunno.

Update - theres a set of 3 data lines going from the CD drive to the NXP IC, so I guess I2S data goes directly from CD to NXP, not through the telechips IC.


----------



## JayinMI

OK, I think the labels were on the bottom of the board. The top of yours looks a little different than mine, (mine is a UVO radio, in case it matters). But here's the pic I can find. I can get more this weekend.










in the lower right hand corner, there are spots marked SPDIF+ and SPDIF-.

These correspond to pins in the plug for the radio, to it should be easy to find a spot to test from.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Eskil said:


> The toslink TX is very easy to use, it just needs 5V or 3.3V depending on model, and then signal.
> Driving the 75ohm cable is much more complicated. I have taken my radio front plate off, and will investigate it soon.
> Did you buy the 3.3V or 5V toslink transmitter?


5V, because I knew I could find 5V spots in the HU from having it apart. There's probably 3.3V too, but I didn't find those yet.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Eskil said:


> It could maybe be possible to tap an spdif signal out of the media player. This would be a linear signal, without volume control and radio.


That's fine, I'll be using my processor for master volume control anyway.



Eskil said:


> There's no datasheet for the IC, so it's not easy. If it's an unconnected pin it's not possible, as it is a BGA.


What's BGA?



Eskil said:


> On the NXP IC they don't spec a spdif out. The IC is coated, so you can't probe around for the signal without breaking the coating.
> I've found the line out, but you would need to buffer it before taking it out, and is it worth messing with your radio to avoid the power amp and line level back-conversion? Dunno.


Buffer it how?

Thanks,

Jay


Update - theres a set of 3 data lines going from the CD drive to the NXP IC, so I guess I2S data goes directly from CD to NXP, not through the telechips IC.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Eskil

JayinMI said:


> That's fine, I'll be using my processor for master volume control anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> What's BGA?
> 
> 
> 
> Buffer it how?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> Update - theres a set of 3 data lines going from the CD drive to the NXP IC, so I guess I2S data goes directly from CD to NXP, not through the telechips IC.


[/QUOTE]

First - is your board different, or does it just have more of the components, that are unmounted on my board?

Second.. you even disassembled the power amp with it's heat conductive paste, and dismounted the board from the box... Brave guy!

As the CD is directly connected to the NXP IC, I assume that the CD audio passes that way, and is not present in the stream from the media player chip.

A Ball Grid Array IC has all connections under the IC using solder balls. unconnected pins are thus not accessible.

Buffering: An internal DAC will normally have a very weak output (not low voltage), capable of crossing a PCB but not driving cables. Best option is to place opamps coupled as buffers before the cable, second best is to put a resistor in series with the output, like 470ohm or 1K or so before the cable, but this can also effect sound quality with long thin cables.

If you really have spdif out on the connector, that would be cool.. Are we talking about connector M34-B on the navigation radio, pin 15 and 6?Also dedicated something for rear view camera?

I just found 3.3V when I poked around on the PCB.


----------



## Eskil

Ahh, you have the UVO radio. It's not available over here, and if it is microsoft, I guess it's a completely different radio. We only have the basic or the navigation radio.


----------



## JayinMI

My only thing is that I have a 3 pin Toslink transmitter, which requires 5V, Gnd, and SPDIF...do I use SPDIF +, and then use the SPDIF - for ground or what?

Jay


----------



## JoeHemi57

Did you decide on amps? Seems like a KS900.6 could power the entire front stage or the mids and tweets and sub and another amp for the midbasses?


----------



## Eskil

JayinMI said:


> My only thing is that I have a 3 pin Toslink transmitter, which requires 5V, Gnd, and SPDIF...do I use SPDIF +, and then use the SPDIF - for ground or what?
> 
> Jay


Hi Jay.
Do you have an oscilloscope available, so you can check for signal on those spdif pins?

(edit: you could actually use a voltmeter. It should show half supply - 2.5V (dc) if 5V powered, 1.65V if 3.3V.)

SPDIF- should just be an inverted version of SPDIF+. Leave SPDIF- floating, use a GND for GND.
Remember you are dealing with a few megahertz, so keep wires short - like a few inches max.

I've been investigating my radio further.
It seems like there is no spdif out of the main audio IC, the NXP SAF7741.
I've located the two I2S out ports on it, but they are internally turned off.

Signal from the telechips ARM9/ media and CD player IC is sent to the NXP through I2S, not spdif. In this signal, a nice 44.1kHz signal is available when playing USB or CD, but not when playing radio.

I haven't found any info on the telechips IC so far, but I'll keep looking for it's spdif out, allthough it wouldn't contain the radio signal.


----------



## mattyjman

subd


----------



## JayinMI

JoeHemi57 said:


> Did you decide on amps? Seems like a KS900.6 could power the entire front stage or the mids and tweets and sub and another amp for the midbasses?


I could probably use a KS900.6 for the front stage, but where I'm planning to put the amps, it wouldn't fit like I want. If I go with KS amps (which is currently up in the air, at least until I get the steering wheel interface completed). Currently, I am planning to run my Sony Mobile ES amps, but if I change it'll be 2 KS300.4's and a KS300.2.



Eskil said:


> Hi Jay.
> Do you have an oscilloscope available, so you can check for signal on those spdif pins?


I have a small portable one, but I need to learn how to use it.



Eskil said:


> (edit: you could actually use a voltmeter. It should show half supply - 2.5V (dc) if 5V powered, 1.65V if 3.3V.)
> 
> SPDIF- should just be an inverted version of SPDIF+. Leave SPDIF- floating, use a GND for GND.
> Remember you are dealing with a few megahertz, so keep wires short - like a few inches max.
> 
> I've been investigating my radio further.
> It seems like there is no spdif out of the main audio IC, the NXP SAF7741.
> I've located the two I2S out ports on it, but they are internally turned off.
> 
> Signal from the telechips ARM9/ media and CD player IC is sent to the NXP through I2S, not spdif. In this signal, a nice 44.1kHz signal is available when playing USB or CD, but not when playing radio.
> 
> I haven't found any info on the telechips IC so far, but I'll keep looking for it's spdif out, allthough it wouldn't contain the radio signal.


Interesting. I don't listen to FM radio hardly ever, so if I don't get AM/FM, that's no deal. I would really only need Sirius, USB, and CD. I can do without Aux in.

Thanks for all the info you're figuring out. I appreciate the help.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

JayinMI said:


> Thanks for all the info you're figuring out. I appreciate the help.


Well, it doesn't look like I manage to help out that much. I took another measurement session in the car with a totally disassembled but connected radio, and then an awfully big oscilloscope on the other front seat..

I could NOT find a live SPDIF out of the TCC8002 on my board. It uses a I2S out, following connection:
(close to pin 1 on the telechips IC)
bitclk R363 (64*fs)
data R361 (msb first, 16bit)
LRclk R362

Same signals are found at these resistors, when running into the NXP IC
(NXP ~pin 35)
bitclk R135 (64*fs)
data R137 (msb first, 16bit)
LRclk R136

This is the digital audio stream out of the media player IC, containing USB and CD sound, possibly also blutooth and sirius for those equipped with that, but no analog radio and aux in.

It's not that compliated to make a spdif from this signal bus, (except that you need a 128*Fs master clock, 2x the bit clk), but for some reason boards for that are not cheaply available on the internet.
For reliability reasons I'm not a big fan of complicated birds-nest constructions in a car, so I'm not sure right now if I'll just take out the analog line level signals on C138-140 or what I'll do. 

As mentioned, the line level signals are available on one side of C138-140 (with a DC offset) on the top side of the board, or C132-135 on the bottom side.
PCB bottom side:


----------



## JayinMI

Well, maybe between the two of us, this info will help someone, anyway. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Yes! Finally some progress. After weeks of none-too-diligent working on the project, today yielded a breakthrough!

I figured out the bug in my software that was not allowing the relay board to trigger. 

Now, when I hit a button, the relays are triggering, however, it seems as though I might have had a cold solder join or bad connection in my resistor ladder, because only 3 functions were working. 

I resoldered the suspect connection, and hope to check it later tonight.
If it works as expected, I will post up a video so you can see what I've been shooting for....

and then I can move on to phase 2.

Yes! I'm pumped!

Jay

Edit: I checked it a few minutes ago and everything works like it's supposed to! Finally!



(Sorry, I'm no Spielberg)


----------



## nadams5755

sweet!


----------



## JayinMI

Sorta unrelated, but yesterday I met up with the guys from Redline Tuning, who make the QuickLift systems. Basically, it's a hydraulic hood lift system for cars that don't already have them. They prototyped the one for the 2012-2013 Rio off of my car.

Before:










After:










And today, my new wheels came:










They are Varrstoen T1 16x8 4x100 +25 offset. They're 1" wider and offset a little more to the outside than my current summer wheels. Should get me a little poke and stretch once I get them mounted. 

Now I need to lower it. Trying to hold out for coilovers, but it's getting harder and harder. Probably end up with H&R drop springs until next year.

Hopefully this weekend I can make some more progress on interfacing with the BitOne, but that will require a power supply or battery or something to do it.

Anyway, that's it for today.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK....had a huge problem with the wheels. One came chipped. So I texted the rep I was working with and arranged to have it sent back. Took about a week. Then it took 2 weeks of contacting him 1-2 times a day before they finally got one sent back to me, which took another week. So, from the time I ordered them to the time I could actually get them put on the car was 1 month.

Then I took my old rims and my new rims to the Belle Tire in Waterford (Telegraph Rd.). I specifically told the salesguy that one of the boxes had my hubcentric rings in it and I needed to make sure I got them back (my Varrstoen license plate frame was also in there). Well, they managed to put small gouges on the back side of all 4 new rims, leave a 9" long scratch on the inner part of the wheel on one, and forget to give me back my hubcentric rings and license plate frame back. They also managed to damage one of my old rims so it looks like it has about 3 inches of road rash that it didn't have when I took them in. One of the other black rims had a chip in it that wasn't there before, either. No wonder I hadn't been there in 8 years. In the future, I will stick with Discount Tire.

But after all that, they were on the car and I liked them. Then a couple weeks ago on my way home from a buddy's house I managed to rub the curb in a roundabout and ended up with about 7-9" of road rash on the lip. Grrrrr!!!

I wasn't sure I'd like the bronze, so I had planned to play with some Plastidip and do them in a bright neon green (just for kicks.) So, I bought all the stuff to do it before the last wheel arrived, but after I got them on the car, I like the bronze...until the rash on the lip...so they might end up green till next summer when I can get another wheel, and I'll just peel the plastidip off.

Here they are on the car (prior to incident with the roundabout).



I just ordered some coilovers from Korea, so hope to see those in the next couple of weeks.

Not much has happened on the audio front. The installer who works for me has been working on putting an iPad in the dash of his '08 GMC Sierra, which has me more seriously considering a Nexus 10 for mine....but not serious enough to do it this year, I don't think. My two most used feature of the factory HU are the Sirius and the Voice recognition/Hands Free.

Anyway, that's where it's at right now.

I did write some software for the Arduino that should allow me to simulate the rotary encoder on the BitOne DRC, but I haven't tested it yet. I did remove the encoder from the board of the DRC and tap in some leads for buttons I want to control, too.

Jay


----------



## req

very tasteful tire\wheel choice. there is enough meat on the tires to be useful and it does not look like a 4x4. a 1~2 inch drop should make it sit real nice


----------



## JayinMI

That is/was the plan. Since the roads in Michigan suck, I wanted to be able to raise it back up for winter. I'll probably slam it and have a couple of friends do a photoshoot on it, then raise it back up to a more driveable level. I had 17's w/ 40 series tires on my first Neon and it looked sick, but rode kinda harsh.

Jay


----------



## bbfoto

Regarding the Nexus 10, FYI the new Nexus 7v2 was just submitted to the FCC for approval, so it shouldn't be too long until it is released to the public. And it's possible that there might be a new Nexus 10 to follow it up as well. Have to wait a bit and see.

The wheels look good, J.  Just give it a bit of a drop like Andy said and it'll look even better.


----------



## JayinMI

Coilovers installed last week. Dropped about 1.75 in front and 1.6 in the rear.
Started making rings to begin my kicks for my RS180's. 



Not what I'd call a drastic difference, but better. Without taking out the locking collars, I can't go much lower.

I had planned on doing 8's in the kicks, but after playing with placement using my RS180's it would be a really tight fit, so I decided to stick with the Daytons.

I'll get some pics of the rings up tomorrow.

Put in my time off request, and if I get it, I'll be in the Mesquite, TX area mid October on vacation.

Hope to make some progress before we leave.

Jay


----------



## Jaloosk

Varrostens look fantastic Jay...never thought to mod a Rio, but it's looking great; you've done a good job with it.


----------



## JayinMI

My last car was a Hyundai Genesis Coupe (which I liked alot), but I couldn't ever afford to do anything to it. But I needed a car that I could haul my folding table saw in that got better than the 25 MPG I was getting in the Genesis.

Since I got this, I've pretty much been modding it. I had it about a month before it got tinted, vinyl'd and wheels. Just did suspension. Now I'm trying to get back to the stereo.

It was a PITA to find the suspension parts. Searched for months, and had to order them directly from Korea. Probably the first new body style Rio in the US on coilovers.

Seoulful Racing in Pennsylvania can do a tune on it that picks up something like 30+ horsepower too.


I like where your Jetta is going, too.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Made my mounting rings. 3/4 base. 1/2 top ring. chamfered the back side at a 45. Brass threaded inserts for the speaker mounting holes.











Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Trying to decide on something. I've seen people make kicks by taking a mold of the area and building on top of that (how I've usually done it.) and I've seen a few people (most recently Bing on the Acura RL) who have built the pods directly onto the car floor/kick panel area. 

I'm getting ready to start on mine, but then I was wondering if attaching them directly to the car, will that cause a problem with tactile feedback? 

I know Highly had to re-engineer his sub mount because of excessive tactile feedback, and I understand that 7" mids don't equal an 18" sub, but still.

Better off to attach directly, or make a piece based on a mold and perhaps line the back with some CCF to help isolate the pod from the car?

Just looking for some input (and others' experience) that might apply.

Thanks.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, I guess I need to build kicks since I removed the dead pedal today. lol
Started playing with positioning...mostly based on not being overly intrusive into the footwell. 

Still working out some issues with my phone. Probably have pics up tomorrow evening.

Jay


----------



## bbfoto

Very nice job on the MDF mounting rings.  Looking forward to what you come up with for the kick panel enclosures.


----------



## JayinMI

Well, so far, I know they will be vented into the open area in the sill panel. I was going to vent them into the a-pillar area, but found that it was capped right about the access hole. Would have made for a very small enclosure. lol

I removed the metal, added some deadener and taped everything off.

Hoping to get more done tomorrow.

Oh, and today, I made my own fiberglass roller. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. So yesterday I removed the dead pedal prior to beginning my kick panel build.

Before:



Drilled out the spot welds and removed it (saving it for possible reinstallation later).

After:



I looked into venting the kick pods into the kick panel/a-pillar area, but there is a panel right above the opening that wouldn't allow the speakers to work right. The area of the sill panel that that area does exit into is filled with expanding foam, so a no go there too...I finally decided to open a hole into each sill panel. It's between 70-80% the area of the cone, so I imagine it will probably work just fine.

So I cut holes:





Then deadened the area:



(Hushmat Ultra, since I still had several feet left over from the Genesis Coupe build)

On the passenger side I managed to reroute the harnesses up and over the kick panel area, but on the driver's side I had to leave the main front-to-rear harness in place. I trimmed the kick panel plastic piece also.



Played with aiming a little, too.





Looks like I should be able to keep them from intruding too much into the footwell area.

Hopefully more pics (and work) tomorrow.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, the high temp today was only 60, and even tho I mixed it hot the resin took FOREVER to get reasonably dry. It was still sticky 7 hours later. Hopefully it will dry by tomorrow morning, and I can go over it tomorrow.

Grrr....

Jay


----------



## rdubbs

Yea it was pretty cool today  It's going to be cool tomorrow too so hopefully time will help it dry! Looking great so far Jay


----------



## robdridan

Not sure its a good idea cutting that part of the sill ? This section forms a good part of structural integrity. Hence its square tube shape being the closest thing to chassis on a monocoque body.


----------



## JayinMI

There's actually like 2 or 3 sections that are right there. there's like an outer sill, inner sill and subframe rails. I only cut into the inner sill, the other sections are still intact. Lots of people have cut out more in other cars with no noticeable effect.

If I get into a car accident where that might be an issue, I have more important things to worry about than if my car collapsed an extra 1/2" on impact.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

rdubbs said:


> Yea it was pretty cool today  It's going to be cool tomorrow too so hopefully time will help it dry! Looking great so far Jay


Yeah, I hope so. If I can work on it at work tomorrow it's warmer in the garage, lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Took a day and a half to cure. Got more layers on and have a little fixing to do before I proceed. Things are looking up.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Little more progress today. I had to reshape a few areas that were impossible to get to while the panels were in the car. I cut out the offending areas, patched in some cardboard wrapped in green painter's tape and glassed over it so I get a nice contour. The I can remove the cardboard base.

I also had to do a little reshaping on the left side because the panel didn't fit right along the sill panel under the kick panel area...I think because the carpet sat funny when originally taped it off. So I cut out some sections and retaped everything off and redid those spots.

Pics to come soonish.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Not done yet, but here's some teaser pics.







I didn't get as many pics as I wanted, fiberglass and my phone don't mix. lol

Getting fillered today.

Jay


----------



## bbfoto

Very nice, clean job on the FG kicks so far. Are they venting to the outside free air, sealed, or venting behind the pod into the carpet?


----------



## JayinMI

bbfoto said:


> Very nice, clean job on the FG kicks so far. Are they venting to the outside free air, sealed, or venting behind the pod into the carpet?


They're venting into the sill panel.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Temporarily "finished" for my trip to Texas. Textured and painted for now. I'll order vinyl when I get back.





Jay


----------



## Installer Josh

looking nice


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks. I have a little touch up body work to do, then vinyl wrapping. Should look even better.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, I got the kicks "done enough" for my trip, and was trying to decide on how to work the grilles. Well, as it so happens a friend of mine gave me a bunch of old Alpine and MB Quart flush mount speaker grilles a long time ago....well the MB Quart ones are just about perfect. The diameter is workable, the depth is a little off, but nothing I can't fix with some filler and they use a 6 bolt patter ALMOST identical to my Dayton RS180s. Sometimes hoarding things works out! LOL So when I get home from Texas I'm going to work with those, the amp rack and possibly start my sub box (depending on how much money I have left.)

The trip has been a lot of fun so far, and I got my first trophy ever at a car show. Southwest Kia Mesquite sponsored it, and they had the Kia Racing team out with one of their Optimas. I got "Dealers Choice," and I'm told the driver for the race team picked my car as his favorite.

Having lunch with Strakele today and we'll be leaving tomorrow.

Yay, Vacation!

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Had a great day, met Grayson (and got to hear his car), and had some very good barbecue. Grayson's car was very impressive. The 3's he has were amazing. Can't believe a 3" speaker getting hit with 250 watts could sound that good and not try to launch itself out of the basket. 

Also finally got some pics of my kicks in the car.





Jay


----------



## edouble101

Your kicks look perfect. Great job!


----------



## bigbubba

Those kicks turned out really, really nice. I'm in the process of starting mine and was curious if you had a pic of the back side of those before you installed them?


----------



## JayinMI

Like the base before I glassed them up, or just what they look like from the back?

I'm in Texas right now (driving home tomorrow morning) but when I get home I plan to do some work on the stereo so I can get you pics if you need something in particular.

Jay


----------



## bigbubba

I was just wondering if you had any pics of them like this one except from the back. If you don't that's cool. 



I was looking at my kick panel area, trying to find out how to find more volume for mine without venting outside and I found a factory cutout along the door sill that was covered with factory deadener material. It's not a huge opening, may have to open it up a little if I chose to use it. Not able to tell whether it is open to the outside somewhere along the side or not yet.


----------



## JayinMI

I'll get some when I get home. I need to pull them out to re-deaden/maybe put down a new rivnut on one of them and run wires anyway.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. I'm gonna elaborate on my impressions of Grayson's car. For one, it's pretty subtle. Other than the a-pillar pods you'd be hard pressed to notice anything at a glance. Everything stayed above the dash, was AMAZINGLY well focused. On a couple of different songs he demoed the lead singer was anchored dead center in on the dash, and didn't wander AT ALL.
There were no -- and I mean NO -- rattles, squeaks, etc. If you closed your eyes, you wouldn't be able to tell where the midbasses are.
The Dayton 10 sounded AWESOME sealed. I was always worried about how it would do, since everyone says it really wants to be ported. It models well in something like .3 ft3 sealed. After hearing Grayson's car, I will probably keep mine.

If you ever get a chance to hear this car, do it. I've had a couple of cars that I *thought* staged/imaged pretty well, and now I know how wrong I was. lol

Thanks, Grayson.

Jay


----------



## damonryoung

JayinMI said:


> The *Dayton 10* sounded AWESOME sealed. I was always worried about how it would do, since everyone says it really wants to be ported. It models well in something like .3 ft3 sealed. After hearing Grayson's car, I will probably keep mine.


We are talking about this 10" Dayton, right?? >>> RSS265HO-4

That is the one I have and was about to build an enclosure of 0.6ft^3... If I can get away with 0.3ft^3 I will be a very happy camper


----------



## JayinMI

DRTHJTA said:


> We are talking about this 10" Dayton, right?? >>> RSS265HO-4
> 
> That is the one I have and was about to build an enclosure of 0.6ft^3... If I can get away with 0.3ft^3 I will be a very happy camper


Yep. That's it. I ran mine in a ported enclosure and loved it, but I just don't have the room for that now. I modeled it and the recommended sealed enclosure was .3 something on WinISD. After hearing Grayson's in around .6-.7ish, I'd stick with that. If you've got the room, it will just sound better. He's also running about 700 watts to it. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Dropped $250 at the local Fiberglass supplier tonight. So over the next few days I plan to start my sub box, and amp rack. Hoping to make some fairly good progress in the next 4 days or so.

Jay


----------



## Installer Josh

Sweet, Cant wait to see it.


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks.

I think I'm gonna be broke by the end of the weekend. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

So, of course it'd be raining and the shop needs me to come in on my last day of vacation to do some remote starters on Saturday. 

So, for today, I'm techflexing wires. Yay. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

My buddy let me use his garage (which is better equipped that the shop I work at, lol) to start my box, and I started my amp rack.

Actually I started with the amp rack, on Friday.

I cut a 22" circle out of 3/4" MDF and cut a hole out of the center so it would sit flat. Then I used 1/4-20 Rivnuts into the spare tire well brace to bolt it in, and the amp and processor are mounted with T-nuts. It will be a 2 tiered affair, with the top using thumbscrews into threaded inserts to make servicing the bottom amp and processor easier. The top layer will just have my 2 XM-2100G's. There will eventually be a false floor and they will be trimmed out in red backlit plexi.







I got about that far, and then my blood sugar crashed, so I quit for a while. I need to get some pics of the rest of it in the next day or so.

Then last night I worked on my box. I had already started one before, using Bondo brand cloth/resin, and left the area behind the box unmodified. But after laying up 6 or 7 layers of mat, I didn't like how it was coming out, so I trashed it, and decided to start over with better materials. And maybe get a little more airspace out of it.

The original box had a small section that fit back into existing small opening on the right.



But I decided to open that area up and get more space for the speaker. I left the double metal where pieces were spot welded together, and just did the single layer in between. I followed the seams where double and triple layers were.



Boom! WAY more room. Then I framed everything out with thick cardboard, making sure I had some play inside the opening. I also used the cardboard to leave space for deadener/ensolite and to make a flatter area around the plastic anchors the bumper attaches into.

This took WAY longer than I expected, but worked like I had hoped. 





Then I waxed the tape with the only wax I had handy, and laid up a layer of 3/4 oz. mat. I like to start with 3/4 oz because it gets into all the little nooks and crannies easier, and I've always had better luck getting 1.5oz mat to stick to it than to waxed tape. Especially upside down. lol



But by then it was almost midnight, so I packed up and will have to work on it some more today. Plan is to get 2 or 3 layers minimum on the mold today so I can take it out of the car and build it up at work...where it's 70 degrees inside. 

But it's progress.

BigBubba...I didn't forget about you, but things are taking longer than I expected and I haven't pulled the kicks out to run wires just yet.

Jay


----------



## bigbubba

JayinMI said:


> BigBubba...I didn't forget about you, but things are taking longer than I expected and I haven't pulled the kicks out to run wires just yet.
> 
> Jay


Hey man, no worries. I'm working on my install today as well. I came back from spending a day at Finals in Alabama last night and that REALLY got me motivated to get back to finishing mine.

When ever you have the time is good for me.


----------



## JP Fabrication

Very nice layup


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks. Some spots looked like bubbles, but since they're the first layer, I'm not too worried. lol It's all the layers to come that I'm worried about. hahaha

I've got another guy with the same car interested in having me make him one, but that's alot more work.

Jay


----------



## Coppertone

Great job so far but unless it's for a really good price, that second build may not be worth it. Either way you have the nicest Rio5 that I have ever seen.


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks!

Yeah, most of the people in the Kia community are doing Forte's, Koups and Optimas. In the Hyundai community it's Genesis coupes and Velosters. I kind of like being odd man out. lol

Jay


----------



## geeio

really nice looking kia, i rented one not too long ago and was really happy, so much better than the rio used to be, like the te37 knock offs, with really nice functional ride height, top marks for the kick panels as well.


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks. I had a Hyundai Genesis Coupe before this and loved it, so I decided to give another (sorta) Korean car maker a chance. They've really stepped it up. I drove everything in it's class, and liked it best.

A couple of other forums I lurk on rag on people for having "fake" wheels, but similar to fake boobs, "If you can touch them, they're real." lol

Jay


----------



## Coppertone

I always say to these people that you can't drive with "fake" wheels lol. Now if they are willing to come out of their own pocket for work on my car, I am there for them. Until that point in time, I will ride on what I please.

I've never had a problem with Hyundai/Kia. As long as it's a vehicle, it will have its plus and minuses. Show me the perfect car, and I will show you a manufacture who is out of business.


----------



## JayinMI

Got another layer on the box, but it still wasn't stiff enough to get it out in one piece. Guess it'll get another layer tomorrow, but til then I got the amp rack designed, built and assembled. Now I'm gonna blow it back apart and hit it with some bedliner.

Bottom tier, with threaded inserts installed in the standoffs.



Then top piece, screws into threaded inserts with wing bolts.





T nuts on the bottom for mounting the top amps.



Notched the corner so I can access the gains for the bottom amp without tearing the whole thing apart.



Fully assembled.



Old school, Japanese Sony Mobile ES goodness!



Sitting in place in the car.


----------



## Chaos

Looks like some nice progress, especially the work you put into the Arduino piece.

Also, ygpm


----------



## JayinMI

I think once I'm done, the modded Bit One DRC/Arduino interface will be my favorite part of the install. Some time after I got it basically worked out, I was over on Hybrid Audio's forum and saw that Scott Buwalda had a similar setup on his modded Bit One in his Infinity. I thought it was funny that I came up with the idea wholly on my own, and then find out it's been done. LOL

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

So, yesterday I got the back mold out. In about 8 pieces. :mean:

So starting over with Mk III.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

As I was retaping everything, I think I see why I had such a problem. There were areas that curved back under or behind that the whole thing was binding up on. So, I took a slightly different approach this time.

I used cardboard to shape the area to avoid this. And I made a template for the indented section that goes on the back, so I can make it on it's own out of the car, then make the piece in the car and combine the two pieces outside the car. Less to get hung up on, less upside down fiberglassing. If it works out that I can get the main part out without tearing up the tape/cardboarded areas, I will make a second set...but if it doesn't this will be the one and only. lol

Here's the main area.



Here's a pic of the template piece sitting in place.



But, I ran out of tape and it's been snowing on and off today, so I didn't get as far as I wanted.

More this weekend, I hope.

Jay


----------



## WrenchGuy

Sweet.....We got a flurry or two up here too....uh oh


----------



## bigbubba

JayinMI said:


> I looked into venting the kick pods into the kick panel/a-pillar area, but there is a panel right above the opening that wouldn't allow the speakers to work right. The area of the sill panel that that area does exit into is filled with expanding foam, so a no go there too...I finally decided to open a hole into each sill panel. *It's between 70-80% the area of the cone*, so I imagine it will probably work just fine.
> 
> So I cut holes:



Is there a specific rule that needs to be followed on this application? 

I'm lookin' to do the same thing on mine and want to make sure that the opening is big enough to aid in the enclosure volume and not hinder it.


----------



## spoonsports86

cant wait to see that sub box done


----------



## JayinMI

bigbubba said:


> Is there a specific rule that needs to be followed on this application?
> 
> I'm lookin' to do the same thing on mine and want to make sure that the opening is big enough to aid in the enclosure volume and not hinder it.



I don't know of anything specific. I looked at a few similar setups and they varied a bit, but near 3/4 the cone area seemed to be the most followed "rule," but I saw a couple where people went with about half and hoped for the best. I basically cut the hole to what I had to work with and it worked out to around 70-80% so I'm hoping for the best.

Just realized I never got those pics of the back side of the kicks (never took them out). You still need them?





spoonsports86 said:


> cant wait to see that sub box done


Thanks. Me too. I glassed the back part of the box and let it sit for a couple days and then I couldn't get it out of the car. I wasn't as careful as I should have been about filling/covering contours and there are a few areas where the fiberglass was behind brackets or something (just a little bit) and I ended up getting it out in like 8 pieces.

I went back in and used more cardboard and foam core board and re did my layout, but then we got busy at work and temps are now down in the 30's, so now I need to get a chance to use my buddy's heated garage, but it might be a little while.

I really had hoped to have all the fab work basically done by September, but things got in the way as usual.

Hopefully soon.

Jay


----------



## bigbubba

JayinMI said:


> I don't know of anything specific. I looked at a few similar setups and they varied a bit, but near 3/4 the cone area seemed to be the most followed "rule," but I saw a couple where people went with about half and hoped for the best. I basically cut the hole to what I had to work with and it worked out to around 70-80% so I'm hoping for the best.
> 
> Just realized I never got those pics of the back side of the kicks (never took them out). You still need them?


Thanks but I don't need the pics anymore. I went ahead and followed the same 70-80% rule you did and we'll see what we get. I can always go back in and make the openings bigger if I need to.


----------



## JayinMI

Well, no more fabrication progress (Remote Start Season gets in the way) but I just picked up another 4 channel that I plan to use in my install.

I searched, and put up ads on here, etc. and searched somemore. Basically everyone I talked to told me that the XM-450G is as rare as hens teeth and they almost never come up for sale. 

I wanted one because it is from the same series as my 2100G's. I had settled on an XM-5046 since it was the closest thing I could get, and everyone said it was good, but the 450G was better...tho probably not by much. lol

I happened to find one on eBay, and it went through twice without selling.
After a couple of emails with the seller, he offered it to me on a second chance offer.

I should have it in a few days.

Jay


----------



## quality_sound

The 450G is ABSOLUTELY a step up from the 5046. A quite noticeable step up at that. You're going to love it and it's ballsier than its rating would leave you to believe.


----------



## JayinMI

I'm going to hold on to the 5046 until after I verify everything works as it should (just in case)...and then I should be able to sell the 5046 for what I'm paying for the 450G, lol...

Jay


----------



## WAR Machine

Coming along nicely... Cant wait to see it finished...


----------



## JayinMI

Me either. lol

I got my new amp, and bench tested it. It works.

I have a lot of ideas, but I think to do everything I have planned will make it at least spring before it's done.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, not much to report. It's been stupid cold, and snowy up here, so not much fiberglass work is going to get done for now. 

I did, however find the pinout for the LCD display on my BitOne, and got 2nd party confirmation that the Sparkfun red/black LCD display I got should work. The pinouts are slightly different, but nothing too hard to figure out.

I might fire up the BitOne today and make sure it works, before I swap it over. I also need to figure out where I put the rotary encoder I removed from the board in case I need it later. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Before:



After:



Got it working. Swapped factory Audison LCD with a red on black Sparkfun LCD. I need to adjust the contrast a little, and in this pic, I have a 3V battery connected to the backlighting. I need to figure out how to interface it with the factory dimmer. Since the dimmer circuit on the LCD is on a 4.2V level, I can't just hook it into the 12V circuit in the car. But it's getting there.

Jay


----------



## quietfly

looking nice!!!


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks. It was nice to make some progress, no matter how small. 
Soldering .05" spaced pins sucks. I burned 2 tabs on the board, and managed to pop an SMD resistor off the board...but I got that soldered back on and traced where to two burned tabs lead to and got it all going. 

Made me feel like adding optical out might be easier than I thought.

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

Love the amps. We have similar taste. Great build.


----------



## Coppertone

^^^. Was this from your earlier build, or is this an updated state of affairs?


----------



## JayinMI

That's a pic from Tyrone's car, not mine.

Tyrone-
Thanks, I've liked Sony amps going back to the early 90's (until the Xplod stuff came out). They're a great value in used equipment because when people here sony amps, they automatically equate them with Xplod. lol

I'm also really looking forward to see what Simplicity in Sound does in GTRTRACK's GTR using 2 Sony 260G's and 2 2100G's.

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

Coppertone said:


> ^^^. Was this from your earlier build, or is this an updated state of affairs?


thats my old mazda 6


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Nice amps. I always wanted to try a pair of M3's, XM-G260, and XM-G2100 with my XES system. Maybe I'll see if I ca turn up some NOS or really clean ones for the build in my SUV. More than enough room in it for those beastly amps. 

Keep up the great work
Scott


----------



## JayinMI

The 450G seems to be pretty rare. It wasn't "hard" to find (just setup eBay to let me know if one came up) and waited. I never expected one to show up, especially in a range I wanted to pay, but it happened. lol Took about a year. 

The 260G and 2100G's pop up fairly often (typically one or the other at least once a month or so). Usually they vary in condition from 6/10-9/10 but rarely still have the covers. I've seen some nice (or maybe the same one a few times that didn't meet reserve?), ones go for around $200/ea.

I didn't mind the condition being a little under perfect as I planned to refinish them anyway, nor did I want to use the covers so I wasn't concerned about those either. 

GTRTRACK is having Bing and JOey do his car and he is using 2 260G's and 2 2100G's, so I'm looking forward to that.

If you pick any up and they don't have the plugs you can get new ones from places like Allied Electronics (but the shipping and handling are outrageous!) for pretty cheap. They use Molex Mini-fit Jr. plugs.

If I didn't want to retain all my convenience features and iPod controls, I'd probably be on the lookout for a CDX-C90 or something.

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Jay,

Thanks for the info, always nice to find someone else who really likes the older Sony ES gear.

I too wouldn't be overly concerned with cosmetics, these days to find one in pristine order is pretty hard to find. That is if you do not want to pay NOS prices which can be nearly what they cost back in the day. This is how I restored my XES P1, X1, I would really like to tinker around with fixing the decal portion. I have thought of printing some like plastic model decals in blue vs the black they used back in the day. That is about the best solution I have come up with, but I'm not all that worried about it. I know from memory what all the plugs are, being I have had it sense new in 93 or so. I have found a dead match color made by DupliColor in the event you ever want to repaint them.




Now a days the hard things to find from the ES line are the speakers, the subwoofers pop up from time to time. But, when was the last time you saw a set of ES ribbon tweeters? Not the ribbons that sold with the Z50 but those used with the XES. They are damn near as rare as tits on a chicken. 

I have just always wanted to have the complete ES system that the XES was designed to run. I have a couple magazines from the era, the volume of gear, well, no way it would come near to fitting in my Porsche. Not to mention the amount of weight it would add. lol. This last photo is from one of those articles.


CHEERS,
Scott

sorry for the brief derail


----------



## JayinMI

Car Stereo Review? I might have that issue somewhere. lol

Yeah, My thought was to take pics of the amps before I refinish them (and maybe scan them on my computer with a reference ruler or something). My main reason for wanting to re silkscreen them is because I think it would help break up all the black. I'm considering using VHT or Krylon wrinkle finish on them except the strip up the center, and then hitting them with a semigloss black. Then having the lettering done in dark gray again. I might be able to have them cut in vinyl, but it's not the same. 

Of course, not having any markings on it means I could say it was whatever brand I wanted. lol

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

Let me suggest flat black. It hides imperfections and looks slick

paint the fins with a narrow brush first so you dont get drip and mist on numerous coats 20 mins apart

when done, pop the gold es logo off the (imo unattractive) case and crazy glue it to the amp. Looks slick.










Overlook the mismatching rainbow of amp colors


heres hammered black vs flat black

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-audio-discussion/103882-big-red-sony-es.html


----------



## FLYONWALL9

I think if I had to repaint this series ES amp I would do so with an 
airbrush to keep the paint as thin and covering as possible. I surely 
wouldn't hammer or wrinkle finish it. Those coatings they use do s
erve a purpose, they tend to disperse heat better than painted finishes. 
If your not worried with it then shoot away. 

You mentioned about having vinyl decals made perhaps. Have you 
looked into making decals like I suggest? You can print them yourself, 
scan the font if you like Sony's font, or choose a font you like best. 
They would be thin like silk screening. Just another option for you


----------



## JayinMI

Got an example of the decals you're talking about? I'd be curious to see how to do it.


I thought about doing the main body of the amp in gloss black powdercoat and the fins in a flat or satin black ceramic coating at one point.

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

no, not really. I just GOOGLED printable model decals and this was
the first ones that I looked at.
Print Model Decals With Your Inkjet or Laser Printer

They pretty much are the same decals one uses with plastic model
building, like airplanes and such.


----------



## Eskil

Dear Jay
It seems like I'll finally get on with my project. 
I'd like to hear how you controlled your bit one with the arduino.
As I understand it, you "read" the steering wheel voltage using the arduino. Then you pass the same signal to the radio, except volume (and mute/input).
Then you send those signals to the bit one. But how do you send those signals to the bit one?


----------



## JayinMI

Well, I (unfortunately) have been extremely busy with work for the last couple months and am just coming back to it. Now that I've got the display swap worked out and I think I about have the backlight situation figured out (which I will test later today), I can move on.

Some time ago I did a bunch of research on how rotary encoders work, and wrote some software I _think_ will work, or will work with slight modifications. 

I may play with this later today too. (Weather is too cold to do much outside.) 

Essentially, there are 2 pins on the Bit One, and they will work something like this: (might not be accurate---need to refresh my memory)

Pin 1 Pin 2

0 0
0 1
1 1
1 0

0=low, 1=high

By interpreting the 0's and 1's you can determine which way the knob is spinning. So, I simply wrote some basic software that says something to the effect of "If pin 1=0 and pin 2=0 and volup=low then pin 1 value=0 and pin 2 value =1" or "If pin 1=0 and pin 2=1 and voldn=low then pin 1 value=0 and pin 2 value =0" so on and so forth through all the combinations. Haven't tested it yet, but should be soon. 

My idea for the Mode button was if I hold it down it will switch from Analog input to Optical input and if I tap it (it will work like a shift key) and I press vol up/dn it will cycle through my EQ presets. Or something like that. 

Another thought I had from yesterday, was to perhaps get a set of buttons from the back of a chrysler steering wheel, add resistor values in to the resistive ladder of the stock steering wheel control system to be interpreted by the arduino, and just make each one a preset button.

I will probably just hide a button for the "settings menu" button for adjusting things like contrast, etc. I don't need to do that very often, so it seems like a pain to write software to do it when a simple hidden button will suffice.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Eskil said:


> Dear Jay
> It seems like I'll finally get on with my project.
> I'd like to hear how you controlled your bit one with the arduino.
> As I understand it, you "read" the steering wheel voltage using the arduino. Then you pass the same signal to the radio, except volume (and mute/input).
> Then you send those signals to the bit one. But how do you send those signals to the bit one?


Yep. That's pretty much it. I tried using PWM on the outputs from the arduino initially, but it didn't work. So I picked up an I2C (single wire control) 8 Relay board from eBay, and have the appropriate resistors wired in with it. 

First I wrote a simple software to read the input value on the steering wheel control wire, and wrote down all the values for all the buttons. I did it with the car off and the car running to detect any variances. Then when I wrote the software to control the relay board, I gave it a range...like if the reading I got in the car was 255, I said if it was >253 and <257 then do xxx.

Jay


----------



## Eskil

But can you interface to the bus going to the bit one control panel, or did you solder out the rotary encoder... the "messy" solution? It's funny, I find nothing on hacking the bit one on the internet..


----------



## JayinMI

Eskil said:


> But can you interface to the bus going to the bit one control panel, or did you solder out the rotary encoder... the "messy" solution? It's funny, I find nothing on hacking the bit one on the internet..


No, I went the messy way. lol. Besides one MattR modded for better SQ, the only other modded B1 I've see is the heavily modded one running in Scott Buwalda's car. Nobody is really doing anything with them. 

I'm not an engineer or anything, so this was the easiest way for me to do it.

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

JayinMI said:


> Car Stereo Review? I might have that issue somewhere. lol
> 
> Jay



Sorry, forgot this question.. Yes, it was SEPT/OCT 1991 issue.
The photo on the cover is of a 5 series BMW, with the ES system in it.

If you have old mags like this, I have a question for you of a system
that was in a CRX from about the same time frame.


----------



## JayinMI

Jerry Ziegler's CRX, by chance? It was black and in it's first incarnation it had mostly MTX gear in it, and the second time around I believe it was USD and ODR stuff.

I remember that one and Rich Inferra's yellow(?) one, IIRC.

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

JayinMI said:


> Jerry Ziegler's CRX, by chance? It was black and in it's first incarnation it had mostly MTX gear in it, and the second time around I believe it was USD and ODR stuff.
> 
> I remember that one and Rich Inferra's yellow(?) one, IIRC.
> 
> Jay


Jay,

I am pretty sure I competed against Jerry back in the day with
my red CRX. However, the one I am talking about was a 1st gen
silver si. It was either in the 0-50, or 51-100 class. It had RF as
the amp, and I cant recall the drivers. The article talked about
how he and his father built the wide body kit and the system. 
It had really nice passives, but they would never give numbers
as to how much power the RF was putting out. I am wanting to
do a system like that in my Montero. It was either CSR or Car
Audio mag., I want to say it was a featured car but not on the
cover.


----------



## JayinMI

I'll poke through my collection this weekend probably, and see if I can find it.
Unless I'm motivated enough to work on my car, lol

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

I can understand that! And thanks

I don't think it will be in any mags newer than like 1994


----------



## JayinMI

I haven't seen it yet. I'll have to find the rest of my mags and look. Some are in the garage and some were in the basement last I saw them. Didn't forget, tho.

On the upside, I figured out my LCD display backlighting so it will dim with the factory dimmer. On the downside, I think I popped a fuse that feeds the illumination side of the dash lights. At least I HOPE it was just a fuse. I looked for the fuse and didn't find one, but I backfed the circuit and the lights still work, so I will keep looking.

Jay


----------



## TexSIN

I always envy people with the patience to do these big builds. Looks awesome so far just read through the whole thing. Crazy to think you started about when i got my new car in 2012.


----------



## Thrillhouse2500

First of all thank you for finally taking on modding the DRC! I've been wanting to do something to mine for years but Buwalda's car is the only one I've seen that has done so. I was planning on re-locating my DRC's display and was wondering if you could hook me up with what ever info you got on the DRC pin outs. Thanks again! I'm book marking this thread to keep up with your build.


----------



## JayinMI

Sure. I'll shoot you a PM when I get home from work with the info I have.
I'll post it in the thread when I get done with the rest of the work I have planned. 

Jay


----------



## GTRTRACK

JayinMI said:


> That's a pic from Tyrone's car, not mine.
> 
> Tyrone-
> Thanks, I've liked Sony amps going back to the early 90's (until the Xplod stuff came out). They're a great value in used equipment because when people here sony amps, they automatically equate them with Xplod. lol
> 
> I'm also really looking forward to see what Simplicity in Sound does in GTRTRACK's GTR using 2 Sony 260G's and 2 2100G's.
> 
> Jay


And thank you Jay so much for the plug!!!!!

Bing was not able to use my amp covers for all four Amps so I'm going to make them available here first,there about a 8/10.


----------



## GTRTRACK

JayinMI said:


> That's a pic from Tyrone's car, not mine.
> 
> Tyrone-
> Thanks, I've liked Sony amps going back to the early 90's (until the Xplod stuff came out). They're a great value in used equipment because when people here sony amps, they automatically equate them with Xplod. lol
> 
> I'm also really looking forward to see what Simplicity in Sound does in GTRTRACK's GTR using 2 Sony 260G's and 2 2100G's.
> 
> Jay


And one Mosconi Zero 3


----------



## JayinMI

How's the GTR coming? 

When it's done, I'll shoot you my address and you can send the plugs back to me.

Jay


----------



## GTRTRACK

JayinMI said:


> How's the GTR coming?
> 
> When it's done, I'll shoot you my address and you can send the plugs back to me.
> 
> Jay


I fly up next Saturday to bring her home!!!!

Bing said he was mailing them but I can do it no problem if need be. He's giving it his special touch.....and another lil special touch as well!!


----------



## JayinMI

Cool. It will work either way.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Well, two projects I was working on in the car didn't work out. 
The sub box (yet again) fought me coming out, so we get to try version 6 (IIRC).

I was down at the junk yard a couple of weeks ago, and while gathering some parts for one project, I came across a HUD from a 2000 Grand Prix. Junk yard charged me $3.97 for it, so I thought I'd try to integrate my BitOne display into it. But the alignment was hard to get right with the space I had to work with, and the unit was HUGE, so I would have had to cut ALOT of my dash, which I didn't want to do. So, I decided to pass on this and move on.

For those of you interested (or who have vehicles with more space for such a thing), the pinouts are all over the internet. People are swapping these things into all kinds of GM cars. I took the OE display out and tried positioning the B1 display inside but couldn't find the sweet spot for me.

If you happen to have a GM car with a 6 cylinder engine, it might me a neat upgrade. I even found a guy who put one in a Mitsubishi!

I am going to go outside and attempt to accomplish _something_ today!

BTW, I never could find that magazine with the CRX in it. Sorry.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

So, I lied. I was fine as I typed that, and then when I got up I pinched something in my back/shoulder/neck area. Must have been sitting weird or something. That and my bum knee didn't help, so I didn't get anything done.

But yesterday, I managed to get everything taped off, masked, plastic sheeted and tin-foiled.

Today I laid up about 4 layers of 1.5 oz. mat. Once it is out, I can affix it to the frame (which I will have to make a new one to take up some extra space I managed to come up with) and then attach it and do a few more layers once I can rotate it how I want. Should make it a lot easier.

Anyways, heres a couple of pics from today:

I decided to use aluminum foil this time since it seems to come away from the tape easier. I also tried a technique I tried on the last one and it went much better. I kept tape to a minimum, just on a couple of seams.



Then I got the glass laid in while I listened to the Tiger's game.



Looking forward to getting this done-ish.

I had wanted to run a Clarus 10 later, but after looking at the basket, I don't think it will clear the fender well. I've had my Dayton fitted in there and I know it clears, so we'll see what I can do if the Dayton doesn't work out.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Yay! It came out...in one piece. Got it trimmed up, now I need to build it up a few more layers and do a little woodwork.



Jay


----------



## quietfly

oh that looks like it came out really nice!!


----------



## JayinMI

After several tries. LOL. 

This time I was a little more careful about how I laid out the cardboard "walls," so that the angles of panels would not get caught up on the body. That probably helped a bunch.

The other thing that seemed to help was using relatively small pieces of fiberglass cloth that I wetted out on a board with tinfoil on it before I put it in the car. Only had a few bubbles, which I hit with the grinder.

I need to do maybe 3 or so more layers to make it as solid as I want.

I have today off, so I plan to work on it some.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Still need to do some glassing and need to combine the wood and fiberglass tub together, but I got most of the woodwork done.

(It's taped together to get things lined up and trimmed)

Sub Baffle:





Front panel:



How they fit together:









The outer trim panel:



Still needs the hole cut out, I need to 45 the woofer opening and roundover the edge near the seat...but it's coming along.

Jay


----------



## GTRTRACK

Looks great Jay!

Too bad there is not a simple way to scan the mold so it could be duplicated easily,something like a 3D printer does.

Scott


----------



## JayinMI

I had thought about using some filler on the back, and maybe pulling a mold off it, but since I had to cut the factory side panel and some metal behind that, it's not really convenient for anyone else.

I had looked into using Hydrocal (kinda like plaster of paris) but from what I've read, it would only be good for 2 or 3 uses.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Making some more progress on the back end of the car.







Not the sub I'm going to use, but just checking fitment.



Jay


----------



## quietfly

looks good!!!!


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks! I did a little more work on it today (not much to show), and will probably get more done tomorrow and Tuesday. Hoping to have the trunk trim panels all built by then. After that, i should just need to do a little body work and vinyl...I'll probably order my vinyl in a week or so.

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

looks real good man.

Can you do a system component rundown for me/us? I dont feel like scrolling through all the previews pages. Loving this install.


----------



## JayinMI

Sure:

Factory Kia UVO HU, which I am planning to add optical output to, feeding an Audison Bit One.1 that I replaced the LCD display on with a red on black one to match my factory cluster. The display will be going in my rearview mirror behind 2 way plexi so it is only visible when it's on. I built a circuit with an Arduino that intercepts the steering wheel controls, and volume will be controlled directly on the BitOne through it from the steering wheel. The Mode button will probably cycle through the options menu (and may later be set up to cycle through EQ presets if I hold it down...but that's a maybe). 
(Also seriously switching to an iPad Mini with a Sony radio with AppRemote in the glovebox)

The Audison will feed my amps:

Mids and Tweets on a Sony XM-450G
Midbasses on a Sony XM-2100G
Sub on a Sony XM-2100G bridged.

Tweeters are Vifa XT25SC90-04 dual ring radiators.
Mids are Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo full ranges.
Midbasses are Dayton RS-180-4's.

Sub was going to be a Dayton RSS265HO-4...but it doesn't clear the box anymore. Oops. Might be able to mod the box to fit, but right now I'm looking for other options.

Main fuse holder is a Tsunami compression style holder, rear distribution is going to be a StreetWires CBR44M. All Power and Speaker wire is from KnuKonceptz...everything up front gets 12ga OFC and the Sub gets 10ga OFC. The Power/ground wire is OFC 1/0.

The optical cable I plan to use is from Dayton.

I plan to make my own RCA's again.

That should about cover it.

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

cant believe you found a Sony XM-450G. Slick.

Dayton cutout too wide or deep? if so forget SA and TC epic

An arc 10 is a great choice for the power. Maybe the new dayton titanics have a smaller cutout.


----------



## quality_sound

In that space, Ultimo SC all day long. I like it better than an Arc 10 in that space and the Arc WAS my go-to small box sub.


----------



## JayinMI

The cutout is fine. The problem is the fender well the box is shaped around. In one of the previous attempts, I checked and it cleared, but this time it didn't. 
I tried an Arc 10 and had the same problem. The magnet hits the fiberglass on that and the Dayton. 

It looks like a JL 10w1v3 would fit and a 10w1v2 did fit. I was thinking of trying an Audiomobile GTS2110, if the rep has one I can test fit. I'm not looking to drop hundreds of dollars on a new sub, but it might come to that. I am also thinking of seeing if an Illusion C10 would go, but I don't know of any dealers remotely close to me.

I got lucky on the 450G, it went by on eBay twice without meeting reserve. The second time, I had the high bid, but it didn't meet reserve and when I emailed him he said the winning bidder didn't pay and I could have it for my bid of $75. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Worked on the driver's side today.





There will be a painted trim ring around the pocket to match the one around the sub. 

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

I went through something similar fitting a stealthbox with a new sub. The arc didnt fit but IDQ v2 did I found a bunch that did including the morel ultimo sc

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...8-10-subs-less-equal-5-25-mounting-depth.html

I ended up swapping the ultimo sc for an audiomobile evo 10. That sounded perfect and just fit. I totally recommend trying audiomobile. hell if you make me an attractive offer, I might sell my evo d4 10 but I think the new ones are shallow too.

Also morel primo are shallow so are the sd's but the magnet is wide

http://www.woofersetc.com/p-10239-sd-2-10d2-sundown-audio-10-dual-2-ohm-subwoofer.aspx


----------



## JayinMI

I wish Audiomobile had a website, it's hard to find info on their sub lines.

Jay


----------



## tyroneshoes

JayinMI said:


> I wish Audiomobile had a website, it's hard to find info on their sub lines.
> 
> Jay


yeah

bing and his crew simplicity in sound are your best bet for illusion or audio mobile or make a post asking for specs.


----------



## JayinMI

One of our reps also reps for Audiomobile, so I hope he can help me.
But as far as Illusion goes, yeah, I'll shoot a message to Bing.

Jay


----------



## rdubbs

JayinMI said:


> I wish Audiomobile had a website, it's hard to find info on their sub lines.
> 
> Jay


I actually emailed them, and they set me an online copy of their brochure... it was really low resolution and hard to see most of the info, but I zoomed in enough to get the info I needed. Then I confirmed it with Bing before ordering the 2210 Elite.

EDIT: Just saw you have a rep that deals with them, so don't mind me


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks for the heads up. Getting info from my rep without continuously bugging him doesn't always happen. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Making some progress on the hatch area:





I wanted to keep the pocket on the side:



Trunk floor idea:



Templates for inserts:







So, it's coming along...

Jay


----------



## TheDavel

I'm liking the direction you are going!


----------



## Nothingface5384

this is bad ass I got same car btw, but my front speakers dont have any speaker pods..i got the bottom barrel rio5 lol

I'm tired of the all trebble factory system


----------



## JayinMI

Mine didn't have any pods up front either. I built all of that. My plan is to be able to run all the stock stuff and then switch between it and my upgraded system as an A/B comparison for people as a sales tool.

Jay


----------



## Coppertone

:thumbsup:


----------



## JayinMI

Spent a couple hours on it today. 















Jay


----------



## TheDavel

Looks better than the factory front grills, which are nice. Well done!


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks. While I was messing with these, I was almost thinking of doing new inserts for the grills on the car too.

Trying to get all the woodwork done, then a little bodywork and upholstery.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

I'll be keeping my eye on how you finish that all out. I just yesterday traded in the Silverado for a Rio5. Its good to see someone doing audio in one of these little guys, and damn you do some nice work. I'll have to go over u pillar pod pics. Looks like a real bear but would be so nice to have some real space for some mids.... Its was not happening in the chev.


----------



## req

those grills are dope as **** jay.


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


> I'll be keeping my eye on how you finish that all out. I just yesterday traded in the Silverado for a Rio5. Its good to see someone doing audio in one of these little guys, and damn you do some nice work. I'll have to go over u pillar pod pics. Looks like a real bear but would be so nice to have some real space for some mids.... Its was not happening in the chev.


I love the car. Just wish I could have gotten a manual. They didn't offer a manual with keyless/power locks/windows. 




req said:


> those grills are dope as **** jay.


Thanks! I feel like I'm getting close now.

Jay


----------



## quietfly

This is going to be be great!!


----------



## REGULARCAB

Jay, you ever get a line on a-pillars for these cars?


----------



## JayinMI

OK...I ripped the center console out the other day, with the plan of running my signal wires down the center of the car. But then I couldn't find the nice braided wires my GF put together for me to send analog signal from the HU to the BitOne. And I need to Techflex a bunch of stuff (including my Optical cable). So I just spent 45 minutes braiding a new left side bundle, and will do the right side tomorrow, I hope.

This weekend, I hope to run most of my wires to the back of the car...if not sooner. 

Tomorrow I will probably paint my grills and try to techflex some stuff.

I've found (after going without my center console cup holders for 3 or 4 days now) that I need to put my center console back in soon! lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Jay


Alright I finally have to ask somebody. Shapes like this, I can understand duping a shape you already have with a router, but how do you get such odd shapes so accurate if you dont already have something to follow? Do you jigsaw a template and go from there?

Somehow 8 years of residential remodeling never taught me that.

Im liking the progress. Maybe your speakers will see some power soon. I know mine are aching for it.


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


> Alright I finally have to ask somebody. Shapes like this, I can understand duping a shape you already have with a router, but how do you get such odd shapes so accurate if you dont already have something to follow? Do you jigsaw a template and go from there?


Kinda. I drew the shape on a piece of 1/4" MDF. Then I cut out (on the outside of the lines) leaving about an 1/8"-1/4" of excess material. I usually rip some strips of MDF (typically 1/2" or so, whatever I have laying around) so the sides are straight. Then I trim the strips to fit together around the perimiter of the shape and double sided tape them down all the way around the shape I drew and run it through the router...this gives me a male template.

I used the same process to make this on one of my old cars:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/581363-post2.html

Check out CarAudioFabrication on YouTube. Mark has a lot of very helpful videos, including a series on how to make templates from scratch.

To size things up or down, I just use a rabbeting bit on the router.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Great explanation, and I'll check out that link to. I've gotten good setting up a straight edge for the router, the mdf strips and double sided tape would let me do so much more.

Now I just need to build that router table I've been thinking about for a year.


----------



## edouble101

I looked at this page and the first page of this thread. I don't have time right now to look at any more. I can tell you that I normally don't subscribe to build logs but yours I am. Soon I am going to sit down a drink a beer a read this thread in its entirety!


----------



## mikelycka

very nice amp and nice work on the fiberglass. just wish I could make the time to do that but my life is a little to busy


----------



## JayinMI

Today I techflexed and labeled my Dayton Optical cable, braided and techflexed my left and right analog audio wires, techflexed and labeled my remote wire, stripped techflex off my CCA 1/0 and re-applied it to my OFC 1/0, removed techflex from my speaker wires because I'm doing it differently. 
I painted my pressed grilles. 

This weekend I need to get some connectors for my speaker wires so I can run everything. Looks like Saturday evening or Sunday morning I need to hit the hobby shop. Probably get some Deans or Traxxas connectors.

Nothing to show, but I made some progress.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Progress! :thumbsup:

Ive seen way too many sick false floor builds these last few days to let my current install fly :blush:


----------



## JayinMI

I did some more Techflexing yesterday, and my GF was nice enough to pick up some Traxxas TRX High Current connectors while I was at work, so I can work on that tomorrow, assuming we don't get any serious storms...which is the rumor.










I need to get a few things done soon, I have a '67 Impala coming in on Tuesday/Wednesday for some work that will keep me from working on my car for a few days.

REGULARCAB -- My router table is a 32x32" square piece of 1/2" MDF with a top made of white board (like the stuff you use for dry erase markers). I set it over a garbage can when I need to use it. It works for now, until I start outfitting a real work area. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

I was wondering what I should use for a plate, chipboard seemed a little woblly, I know the white stuff you where talking about. I have been going without a router table and have been pretty happy that I have 4 different routers and almost never change bits, but some things would certainly be easier with a table. I'm going to have to find something to build just to use ur template method.

Those traxxis connectors are nice! They look better than the xt60's I like that there is no copper showing.


----------



## JayinMI

I've previously used Deans connectors (which you kinda need to use heat shrink on to keep wire from being visible), as well as Anderson Power Poles (which are pretty flexible and available in many colors.) The Traxxas connectors have gotten pretty widespread in the RC car world, and I could get them locally, so I decided to try them. As a matter of fact, the Traxxas connectors look remarkably similar to the Powerpoles, as far as assembly, but with the power poles you can put them together into all kinds of different combinations. 

But they're kinda pricey...8 male and female was $35! 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. I made a little progress today. 

Finished all the Techflexing and labeling. All of my signal wires are now run to the back of the car, down the center.



Behind the glovebox:







Down the passenger side of the console.





My high level analog signal wires are braided and Techflexed in checkered flag pattern Techflex. Remote Turn on is black with a red tracer. The Optical cable was also covered in checkered flag techflex as well.



Down the center:



Under the back seat. Left side speaker wires down on the driver's side, right side down the passenger's side. Optical, analog signal wires and remote turn on run down the passenger side of the center.



Left tweeter, black/white techflex.
Left midrange, black/green techflex.
Left midbass, black/yellow techflex.

Right tweeter, black/silver "dots" (I had to use a silver Sharpie to make them)
Right midrange, black/purple techflex.
Right midbass, black/orange techflex.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

And I plan to use strips of hushmat to hold wires in place under the seat, but I need to clean up the underseat area first.

Jay


----------



## req

carefule under the back seat. fuel pumps are notorious for being able to induce some EMI... with a high level signal you will most likely be fine, but just sayin 

the wiring looks awesome, and im really diggin the traxx connectors too!


----------



## REGULARCAB

Progress! Yup, loving those connecters, they look better than the xt60's. That wiring looks good, and I've always liked holding things down with cld, it just works You pull your remote turn on from behind the cigarette lighter?


----------



## JayinMI

I ran it up behind the radio, but it's still going to be hooked to accessory.

Jay


----------



## coogle

Nice work . Loving the trim work!!


----------



## JayinMI

req said:


> carefule under the back seat. fuel pumps are notorious for being able to induce some EMI... with a high level signal you will most likely be fine, but just sayin
> 
> the wiring looks awesome, and im really diggin the traxx connectors too!


Yeah, I routed them kinda away from the fuel pump access to avoid noise. Since I am running both high level analog audio (which will likely be pretty noise resistant), AND Optical, I should be OK. But the same thought had crossed my mind.

The Traxxas connectors are kinda cool, but the tabs don't lock in as well as I would have hoped. I'm sure they'll be fine (especially once the male and female ends are together.) I think for future reference, I will either stick with Deans connectors or do Anderson Power Poles. The Power Poles assemble in a very similar fashion to the Traxxas connectors, but they come in 1's, so you can put a bunch of them together, and they are available in several colors.

I need to run my 1/0, but first I want to pin down how I am going to mount my fuse holder. I want to put it on top of the battery, since it is basically dead space that keeps it out of the way of the air filter box and the brake fluid reservoir. Thinking of trying to bend up a piece of thin metal sheet to fit around the battery...still working on the design in my head.

But, I should be able to have sound in the not too distant future!

Oh, and Thanks, Coogle. It's not the wildest thing I could come up with, but I wanted it subtle, and I wanted it to tie in with the rest of the car. I still have to be able to fit groceries back there! lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

A stiff L (or rather z) bracket attached to that bolt?


----------



## JayinMI

That's kind of what I went with. My OCD kicked in and I bought a sheet metal brake at Harbor Freight, since I thought the bends would come out better, but it didn't bend as sharp as I wanted. I'll be returning that. I ended up using a couple of pieces of angle iron and a vice. Oh, and a hammer.

It actually fits around the battery hold down, and goes under the battery, so when the bolt is tightened down it holds it in place. I took some of the pics with my camera, so I don't have them in my Photobucket yet. But here's what it looks like right now. I need to round some edges, drill some holes and paint it, but I wanted to get it done before I ran my power wire.



1/0 Knu OFC in black/red Techflex, run through a factory grommet high on the driver's side firewall:



Behind the kick panel:



Kick panel back in place:



Ziptied every 5" or less.



I love how much room there is under the sill panels!



I think I ordered enough wire...



to put the amps in a trailer behind me. lol

Power wire routed around the seat belt.



Held down using a "Tie with an Eye" and screwed in to a factory plastic insert.



Also, the bracket under the back of the center console was modified for clearance and wire safety. When I ran the wires it was a snug fit, and I didn't want the sharp edges of the center leg cutting through the Techflex, so I trimmed about 1/8" off either side and added split loom tubing to help.



I also took my amp rack apart, drilled new mounting holes (since I'm using a different 4 channel than when I designed the amp rack) and picked up some more T nuts and screws for it. I'm going to paint it with Bedliner. I left the original Tnuts in the amp rack in case I have to temporarily swap back for some reason. Didn't get any pics of that. I hope to have it in bedline tomorrow so it will be dry enough that I could put it in the car on Tuesday.

I also realized I forgot to Techflex and run the USB for the BitOne. I might order a 10 footer to run from the BitOne to the center console. I have a Clarion USB jack to mount wherever I decide to put it. (CCAUSB is the model number).



Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

This all looks so familiar  I like the fuse bracket.

I didnt have my console completely out, are the sharp edges on the bracket that worrysome? Guess it couldn't hurt to protect it, I do need to pull the console one last time.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Oh hey you where able to get the power wire behind your kicks, nice!


----------



## JayinMI

On the driver's side I had enough room even after moving the factory harness to clear the main body of the kick panel. 

The edges were kinda sharp on that bracket, and would have been fine (I think) if I weren't running such a big bundle of wire through there. I had everything going through one side, so it was tight and the techflex was rubbing so I figured better safe than sorry. Only took like 5 mins to mod, since I hadn't put the bracket back in yet and my console is just sitting in place so I have access to cupholders. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Amp rack is coated in bedliner, and is in the garage drying.
I started with a can of Rustoleum bed liner (it's what the local Autozone had when I went) and used the whole thing! Coverage kinda sucked. Then I went to Advanced Auto Parts and picked up the Duplicolor Bedliner I wanted in the first place. Came out much better. Definitely get the Duplicolor if you're looking for bedliner for an audio projects. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Blue can?


----------



## JayinMI

That's the stuff.


----------



## JayinMI

So, I'm sitting here with one of my tabs open to my Bestbuy cart where I currently have (3) 2' Audioquest Golden Gate RCA's and (1) 3.3' Audioquest Golden Gate RCA. These lengths should work out pretty well for my amp rack...I just can't decide if I think $286 is too much for some short RCA's. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Rocketfish four footers are 14.99  but I'm a cheap a$$


----------



## rdubbs

REGULARCAB said:


> Rocketfish four footers are 14.99  but I'm a cheap a$$


+1 

there's always the lovely knukonceptz cheapies too


----------



## REGULARCAB

We really could blow up your thread about RCA's. I say If you like the audioquest go for it, i bet they are damn nice.


----------



## JayinMI

Yeah, I mainly think I like the way they look. The ends are nice. They come in sizes I can use and they got good reviews. I think I might pop for some of the lower end ones and see what I think. 

My birthday is coming up in another 2 weeks, so I need to keep some money for plates/license renewal...I think I might go for the Towers or Evergreens and I can always change them later if I want.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Ordered some Audioquest Tower series RCA's. Should be here by Aug. 1.
They were available in the lengths I needed from BestBuy, and about 1/3 the price of the Golden Gate ones.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Ordered some Audioquest Tower series RCA's. Should be here by Aug. 1.
> They were available in the lengths I needed from BestBuy, and about 1/3 the price of the Golden Gate ones.
> 
> Jay


That is far too long for me to wait for an update....


----------



## JayinMI

Well, I hope to have some more progress before they arrive, but I need them to have sound! lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Well, I hope to have some more progress before they arrive, but I need them to have sound! lol
> 
> Jay


I suppose that is an acceptable answer. I still need to figure out my rca's. I was going to use a bunch of rg6 quad I had. But the crimp connectors I bought had a 50% failure rate installing them. Also the couple I was able to secure the impedance jumped all over the place..... um no!


----------



## JayinMI

In my last build, I took the ends off of some JL "Blue" RCA's and used some Gepco 61801ez to make them. But I don't have enough ends for all the channels I have. And I didn't feel like making them this time, especially after measuring how long they needed to be and finding that 2ft and 3ft would be almost perfect.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Been 14 hours since your last post. That's 8 hours sleep, 1 hour for coffee and a morning poop and 5 hours build time. Hows that trunk coming? :laugh:


----------



## JayinMI

I don't drink coffee...but I had to work, so...

Working on one of the nastiest Range Rover's I've ever seen and a '90 Corvette convertible don't leave a lot of free time. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Bedliner is dry, so here's what I've been playing with a little:

Amp rack (layer 1): 



Bolts to the brace in the bottom of the spare tire well with 1/4-20 RivNuts and washers.



4 channel (XM-450G) and BitOne bolt down to this, T-nuts on the bottom side of the panel.

Layer 2: Held in place with Wing bolts and washers (not shown) for easy access to layer 1. Plan to route wires so that I can tilt it up if I need to service something on the bottom.



The 2 2 channels (both XM-2100G's) go on this panel. Bolted in with T-nuts.



Then I was trying to decide where I want to mount my Streetwires CBR-44M combo block. 

Probably won't go here:



Or here:



Still thinking what I'm going to do with it.

And I bought a new toy:





16 ton hydraulic wire crimper. Came with 11 sets of dies. Works pretty good. I believe they said it will do up to MCM600. So far I've used it on some 1/0 and some 4ga. 

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Nice!!! I was surprised what a good finish the bed liner made on my baffles. Now don't think I'm copying you if I do it on my rack.. 

I was looking into one of those crimpers. You like it so far?


----------



## JayinMI

So far so good on the crimper. It takes a little figuring out to get nice crimps.
I had to experiment a little. 1/0 was pretty easy. I started with the size closest to the ring terminal I had and went smaller until it was nice and snug. 4ga was a little different. I found I had to crimp it once with once size, and change dies and crimp it again to get a clean result, otherwise the ring connector split at the seam. 

It was $46.50 shipped, so I didn't have extremely high expectations, but if it lasts me through my build, I guess I won't be mad. If it lasts a year, even better. I bought this based on some recommendations from some guys in a FB group I'm in, and a few of them were even using the one from Harbor Freight, but I guess you have to mod some of the dies to get it to do 1/0.

Copy away! I wasn't the first to use it. lol Stuff seems to need a day and a half or so to dry enough not to be tacky.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

My AudioQuest Tower RCA's should be here on Tuesday. I was looking at the Golden Gate line, but couldn't justify nearly $300 for 9 feet of RCA's. Yet. lol
A coworker (former Scosche rep) was showing me some of their high end RCA's and they looked pretty nice. If I can find a near-cost hookup on Audioquest RCA's I might upgrade and just move these to my little-used home theater. If not, I might look at the Scosche ones.


Looks like the weather isn't going to cooperate tomorrow, so I don't expect to make much progress. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK...bolted the amp rack in, BitOne and XM-450G bolted to it. Painted the screw heads black that hold the BitOne in, but will probably switch to some allen head screws for everything later.



Then I crimped some spades on some 4ga to make sure it would fit on the amps...and it did. Here's a pic of the crimp with the hydraulic crimper:



And here they are on the amp. Nice to see the spades fit in the terminals, and the wire has enough clearance not to hit each other.




Looks like I'll have to order some more 4ga and maybe some more techflex.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Those crimps look nice. I had forgotten about the amps with spade connectors.

You happen to know the diameter of the circle you cut for the amp rack if the top of you head? Trying to figure out the minimum box volume I can get without pulling my rack.


----------



## JayinMI

Sorry I just got to respond to this, but I had to get home from work, and disassemble the trunk to measure it. It was 22" across.


----------



## JayinMI

Alright. Just sent off orders for more 4ga, spade connectors (darn old school amps! lol) and vinyl.

Looks like I might need to space the BitOne or the 4ch up a little bit because I need it to clear the bend of the optical cable.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Sorry I just got to respond to this, but I had to get home from work, and disassemble the trunk to measure it. It was 22" across.


Sweet thanks for the info.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Now that does mean that a simple cylinder placed in the spare tire well could accommodate 6.5 cubic feet without raising the floor more than the 3/4 for the top baffle. Just saying.

BTW I can't wait to "hear" that u have sound in this thing. You just need to not live so damn far away.


----------



## JayinMI

My RCA's came today. My vinyl shipped, my spade connectors shipped and my 4ga shipped today should all probably arrive by Friday. 

The RCA's are AudioQuest Tower series (3) 2' and (1) 3'. Nice small ends, pretty flexible. Bummed they don't techflex these, but oh well. 

Here's some pix: (Quarters used for reference)





They also have arrows to make sure you install them with the proper orientation.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Those do look like some nice cables.


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Today, my extra 4ga showed up (at work), my vinyl showed up (at home) and my spade connectors should be here by Tuesday. Now, the 4ga came from Ohio. I ordered it on Tuesday. Had it on Thursday (around 10am). My vinyl (also ordered on Tuesday) came from Missouri, and got it early on Thursday too. But, my spades are coming from Ohio also. They showed that they were at the post office in Pontiac, MI this morning. 2 blocks from where I work! But it is going to my house in Flushing...somehow this 45 minute trip is going to take 3 days. Or at least that's the estimate.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> OK. Today, my extra 4ga showed up (at work), my vinyl showed up (at home) and my spade connectors should be here by Tuesday. Now, the 4ga came from Ohio. I ordered it on Tuesday. Had it on Thursday (around 10am). My vinyl (also ordered on Tuesday) came from Missouri, and got it early on Thursday too. But, my spades are coming from Ohio also. They showed that they were at the post office in Pontiac, MI this morning. 2 blocks from where I work! But it is going to my house in Flushing...somehow this 45 minute trip is going to take 3 days. Or at least that's the estimate.
> 
> Jay


Hey, you could have a set of midbasses "at warehouse waiting for shipping" for 3 weeks and be unable to cancel the order because "it is in the process of shipping"


----------



## JayinMI

Yeah, that would suck. This SNAFU is because they use that new shipping method that starts with UPS and then they hand it off to the USPS. So, it's cheaper, but takes longer. I'd never used that before with Parts Express, and will never use it again. I'll pay the extra couple of bucks to do all UPS...or I'll have it shipped to work. The post office in Pontiac is almost literally a "stone's throw" away from my work.

Jay


----------



## SkizeR

Glad to hear you like the crimper.. I have the same one in the mail as we speak


----------



## JayinMI

So far, so good. Suggest ordering extra ring connectors so you can see what combination you need to use to get smooth crimps. I've had to use the "35" die to start, then go back with a 25 to get nice smooth results on 4ga. When I tried to just use one, it popped the seam on the ring connector and didn't work as intended. I think I could do 1/0 in one shot, but I know you're going bigger than that.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Ive always liked the solid copper closed end ring terminals. No seam to pop. Though I admit I didn't use them for my 1/0.


----------



## JayinMI

True, but I haven't seen them locally (and shipping the 2 I need would cost more than the terminals), I work at a car stereo shop where we have the split type ones, so those are the ones I use everyday. Since I plan to use the crimper for cars at work too, that's what I tested it on. 

Yesterday, I made a jig to cut the opening for my combo fuse block, and I plan to mount it on the rear wall of the hatch, just below the latch. That way, it's easy access to the fuses (it takes Maxi fuses that plug in through the top.)
I'll probably use a piece of 18ga sheetmetal to make a bracket to mount it to.

The vinyl I got doesn't quite look like the vinyl on the website examples on Yourautotrim. The texture isn't as pronounced (which is probably a good thing), it's shinier than I expected (not a big deal, guess I'll have to wipe down the rest of the hatch with low gloss Armor All.), and the color seems a little off. Seems a little more reddish, less blueish. Luckily the hatch is kind of it's own section, so I think it will work out.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

I was going to stay after work and do a little, but got stuck fixing a bunch of crap on a customer own Power A-poop-stick double din install. So that srewed up tonights plans, and it's supposed to rain all day tomorrow.

Hoping to do _something_ tomorrow, just the same.

I picked up some longer screws, spacers and zip tie hold downs at Home Depot this morning.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> I picked up some longer screws, spacers and zip tie hold downs at Home Depot this morning.
> 
> Jay


Isnt it amazing how all the little crap adds up in cost?


----------



## JayinMI

Eh, it was only like $11 or so.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

So this came in to work last night. Getting 2 sets of 6" coaxes and a 4ch amp.
72 Catalina Convertible, Green with a tan top. lifted on 24's or 26's. Whole interior (including the floor, pedals, sill panels, top boot, steering wheel, etc.) is done in Gator Skin.











When I got home tonight, I decided to mount my fuse block. I didn't get too many pics, but here's what I got:



It is mounted to a piece of flat sheet metal (18 ga) which is mounted to the car. I figured it would be easy to get to if I needed to since it used Maxi Fuses.

Here's a couple more pics:





Anyway, it's progress.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

This thing making noise yet?


----------



## JayinMI

Not yet, between the weather either being HOT, or it raining and we just had to deal with the slam of people coming in from the Woodward Dream Cruise, I haven't done much. I was going to finish techflexing wires, and hook them up, but I misplaced my 1/2" heat shrink, and now I've decided to move my fuseblock...

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

So how hot is "hot" over in MI? Im such a wuss when it comes to heat, Ive barely done anything because its been like 75 outside lol. I finally emptied out my garage just so I could get some shade.

EDIT: I wasn't going to say anything but since you are moving it, I wasnt a huge fan of that fuse block placement


----------



## JBThompson

Whoever thought it would be awesome to ghettofy that Catalina should be punched in the back of the head.


----------



## JayinMI

With a sledge hammer.


----------



## JayinMI

Made a new mount and relocated my combo block closer to the amps. Hoping to get the wire re-cut to length and techflexed by the end of this weekend, along with the connectors on the amp wires. Shouldn't be too long after that.







Jay


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


> So how hot is "hot" over in MI? Im such a wuss when it comes to heat, Ive barely done anything because its been like 75 outside lol. I finally emptied out my garage just so I could get some shade.
> 
> EDIT: I wasn't going to say anything but since you are moving it, I wasnt a huge fan of that fuse block placement


I liked the _idea_ of it in that location, cause it would be easy access. No panels to lift, nothing. But I kept bumping it, or getting the hatch floor pice caught on it and stuff, so I decided to move it underneath the false floor. Still easy to get to, just have to lift the floor. I like it better where I moved it to, I think.

It's been around 85 on days I could work on the car, and 85 in the sun is worse than 90 in the shade to me. I think I'm going to try and accomplish little bits at work where I have a garage to work in. lol



Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Ooooh fancy! Think I know where you got that idea, I like it.


----------



## sqnut

JayinMI said:


> Not yet, between the weather either being HOT
> 
> Jay





REGULARCAB said:


> So how hot is "hot" over in MI? Im such a wuss when it comes to heat, Ive barely done anything because its been like 75 outside lol.





JayinMI said:


> It's been around 85 on days I could work on the car, and 85 in the sun is worse than 90 in the shade to me.
> 
> 
> Jay


Umm you guys are soft. It was 102 yesterday with 90% humidity. We are in the rainy season so temp is slightly lower but humidity is high. Peak summers (Apr-May) and you're looking at 116-120. I'd rather have the higher temp but lower humidity. 102 with 90% humidity is unbearable


----------



## sirbOOm

What do you use to tint the fogs? I want to do that to my white "fog lights" on my truck. Why the hell are my fog lights white?!


----------



## JayinMI

I used Oracal transparent yellow vinyl I got from Metrorestyling.com

Jay


----------



## sirbOOm

Thanks!


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Metrorestyling.com


God damnit Jay! Quit spending my money, my wife would kill me If i did vinyl on my roof :laugh:


----------



## JayinMI

So I shouldn't probably direct you to exledshop.com, then. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, made a (very) little progress today. I cleaned part of the garage and found my molex connectors for my turn on leads. I bedlined my fuse block mount. I mounted some zip tie hold downs to the floor and cut some wires to length.

I hope Radio Shack is open tomorrow.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Got a fair amount done today, so far.

I finished mounting all my zip tie tie downs, deadened the whole hatch floor, followed by carpet. Speaker wires for the mids and tweets are now cut to length and terminated with gold plated forks and heat shrink tubing. Also painted the fuse block mount with Duplicolor truck bed liner to match the amp rack.













And I found my Molex plugs for the turn on leads, so I may get those done tonight sometime.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Lookin good!


----------



## jnchantler

That sub would look nice in the footwell


----------



## JayinMI

It's tight enough up there with the kicks. lol Besides, my GF rides in my car a lot.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> It's tight enough up there with the kicks. lol Besides, my GF rides in my car a lot.
> 
> Jay


I at least have the benefit of my wife riding in back with my youngest and my 12 year old riding in front. There is plent of leg room. But still not ready to go there... yet.

You make me want to hit that whole boot with some more CLD.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Where did you choose to ground all that Jay?


----------



## JayinMI

I get Hushmat pretty cheap from work, I used a trunk kit, 2 or 3 extra pieces and some samples of StP Black deadener I had. I did the whole thing because I didn't want to have to go back in later. Since I didn't install any speakers in the doors, and don't plan to use the ones that were in there, I haven't deadened the doors yet.


Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> I get Hushmat pretty cheap from work, I used a trunk kit, 2 or 3 extra pieces and some samples of StP Black deadener I had. I did the whole thing because I didn't want to have to go back in later. Since I didn't install any speakers in the doors, and don't plan to use the ones that were in there, I haven't deadened the doors yet.
> 
> 
> Jay


Yeah I went about 50-75% in the boot and just this weekend used up what I had left in the front doors for almost 100% coverage on the inner door skin and prolly 75% everywhere else. I sure wish I didnt have to worry about my doors.


----------



## JayinMI

I'm reasonably impressed by the midbass I get from the stock speakers in the doors off radio power, to be honest. My 7" Daytons in the kicks (vented into the frame rail) will have to do alot to impress me, now. lol

When I eventually get serious in the doors, It will involve MLV too.

Do you notice the top part of the inner door panel seems to rattle a little (like where you'd rest your arm with the window down?)

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Do you notice the top part of the inner door panel seems to rattle a little (like where you'd rest your arm with the window down?)
> 
> Jay



In fact I do. If you look at the back side it would seem to be a separate part that screwed on and also heat welded in a few spots but the then the front side is all one piece... I cant really make sense out of it unless it truelly is 2 pieces that they then molded together on the front side.

I did make sure to tighted the screws (they didn't really need it) and cld'ed the crap out of the area. Still it doesnt fare well in the tap test. Tho slightly better than it was.

The actual arm rest with the window controls and such did see a huge improvement with some more cld.

MLV is certainly on my to-do list... once I stop getting these god damn $400 water bills (hopefully the leak is fixed)


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


> Where did you choose to ground all that Jay?


I haven't yet. I need to find my ground wire. In my previous install I had used 1/0 with a Streetwires compression fit ring on the end that goes in the combo block. It's in my garage somewhere.

I'm probably just going to ground it to the floor or back panel. Luckily, running old school amps, it's unlikely I'd have engine noise at all anyway. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> I'm probably just going to ground it to the floor or back panel. Luckily, running old school amps, it's unlikely I'd have engine noise at all anyway. lol
> 
> Jay


I just chose the car seat mounting hardware, spot was nice n shined up of course. I have been pretty lucky in this car. Zero engine noise and the noise floor is non existent. No complaints so far.


----------



## JayinMI

I had thought about using the hold down bolts along the front edge of the hatch, but because of the position of my distro block, that wouldn't be convenient.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Didn't have much time today, but I pulled the bracket I made to mount my fuseholder out of the car, ground the rust off it, and painted it with bedliner.









The notch in the bottom is to clear the hold down bracket. The weight of the battery holds it in place, it can't come out because of the hold down bracket, and there is a little kinda fabric cover that surrounds the battery to hide most of the bracket.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Got the fuse holder mounted and in place.
Today it was 92 degrees (according to Google) but according to the Black, lifted, F350 crewcab diesel I spent 4.5 hours working on in the sun it was 101. And humid. BTW, did I mention I was also wearing jeans and a black Tshirt for work? So, I didn't get much done, but at least it's something.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

I like it. I didn't realize there was that much free space on top of the battery.


----------



## JayinMI

I think that would be about as high as I would go. There might be another inch or so, but I didn't check.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

On the question of whether or not our charging systems can handle the load. I am glad to say that I have had no issue whatsoever.


----------



## JayinMI

Well, in that case, I'm going to rip all this out and build a wall with 4 15's and 10kw of Audiopipe powa! All on the stock charging system. Cause a guy on the internet said his charging system didn't give him any problems! LOL

Seriously, tho, that's good to know. I can't remember but did you do a big 3 upgrade, or is all the wiring to the battery still stock? I plan to upgrade my ground and charge wires at some point. 

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

I haven't done a big three yet no. But like you I do plan to at least replace that little strap from the frame to the battery. Honestly the rest kinda scares me.... Its not a Chevy lol


----------



## JayinMI

Today was a nice day, so I made some progress. 

Fuse holder got mounted the other day:



Lower level of the amp rack:



Found the Streetwires compression ring for my ground wire. 



Decided to use my Streetwires GT10 ground thingy. I've had it for a long time, and decided to use it. I cut out some deadener to the shape and sanded the paint off. I sanded the bottom of the GT10 to make sure there were no weird coatings or anything on it.



Also found my small fuse block I used in the last car. Decided to use it to fuse the constant feed for my BitOne. I also have an accessory feed run from the front, so I have it hooked to the fuse block, but not hooked to anything. It's mainly there in case I need it later. The BitOne will do signal sensing, so I shouldn't need it now.



Need to pick up a 1/0 Ring connector so I can connect the battery up, but here's a pic of the fuse holder area.



Top layer of the amp rack



So, in the back, the wiring is nearly complete. I need to run wires from under the back seat for the kickpanels/sub up to the amps, and run the USB and DRC cables from the BitOne up toward the front. Then I need to run wires from the junctions in the kicks to the speakers. and start working on the mirror/DRC/Arduino stuff.

Hopefully not long now.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

I like that you carpeted the whole area and down into the tire well. What Arduino stuff are you planning?


----------



## JayinMI

I already have it started. I built an Arduino circuit that interrupts the factory steering wheel controls. If it sees Volume Up, Volume Down, or Mode, it will control the BitOne DRC. So, I will set the volume on my HU and leave it alone. The steering wheel controls will be my master volume controls. I can also add secondary functions in the future simply by altering my software. 

I also took the LCD display out of the DRC and replaced it with a red on black one and am mounting it in the rear view mirror behind 2 way plexiglass so it will only show up when it's lit up. 

My plan is to hold the Mode button down for over a second, and use volume up/dn to cycle through my EQ presets, or maybe just hold down the volume up/dn buttons to cycle through them and use Mode to switch between analog and optical inputs.

Once I get everything else buttoned up, I can pull the radio, add the optical out to it, and see what happens.

I need to do a little body work to the kicks to make my grills fit then vinyl them.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Page 7, starting at post 152. That's where I started the Arduino part of the project.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Gotcha, I had glazed over that stuff a bit. Bit one controls through the steering wheel buttons would be sweet. I just posted a q about wiring a new volume knob for the dsp-88r maybe I need to follow suit and read up on Arduino. I need something to sink my mind into anyway.


----------



## JayinMI

I used to program in BASIC and Assembly when I was a kid. So, I didn't necessarily *learn* C++ but I could follow the examples. The Arduino.cc website is a great resource. Since the vast majority of the code I needed was based on if...then....else type of stuff, it was simple to write.

Sparkfun has a ton of related products, too.

I may get it all working, and then switch up to either a smaller unit, or hardwiring the chip itself and make the overall circuit smaller.

I did use a relay board to simulate the button presses, but it might have been doable with an IC voltage regulator, but I couldn't figure it out, so the relay worked for me.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Luckily the programming side wouldn't be an issue for me. Especially if its mostly if then statements. My first love was programming, then I realized I was one of about 800 in my class and it was just at the start of the fall of the dot coms. Then I got into electrical engineering but was offered a job doing carpentry making 25 dollars an hour to start... that was a fortune for a 21 year old kid... prolly not the best choice in the long run however.

I will be very interested to see you get that all up and running.


----------



## JayinMI

Me too. I'm really hoping the Optical Output will work. I've already done some stuff to test the steering wheel control interface, I wrote the software (v 1.0) to simulate the rotary encoder, but haven't tested it yet. I need to run like 8-12 wires down to my Arduino which will go around the area of where the USB port is. I'm going to cut up an old Pioneer CD Changer cable to do that.
I am reasonably sure it will work, but I may need to revise some timing or something small.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> The bottom line that says "Out" goes to the steering wheel control wire on the head unit.
> The input wire is ground (on top). Edit: just realized I don't have all 9 functions listed on the diagram. Oops.
> 
> 
> Basically, I will be able to install 2 pin jumpers for each function, and connect them to the relay board I have. Then I will program the Arduino to activate the appropriate relay, thus closing the switch and completing the circuit. I'm tested it with a small pigtail and a button and all the functions work like they're supposed to.
> 
> Jay


Ok let me see if I have this correct in concept before I go too much further

You ran the audio headunit pin out (from the steering wheel controls) to the arduino and the arduino reads the resistance across the wire. The arduino is programmed to recognize what button is pushed based on that resistance and then outputs an on/off signal on a certain set of pins based on how you programmed it.

The arduino also outputs a signal that simulates a rotary encoder to control the bitone. (this is what Im more interested in but I want to make sure I have an understanding of what else you have done first)

You used the relay board just for safeties sake?

You needed the resistance ladder to convert the simple on/off signals back to different resistances because that is how the stock head unit reads it?


----------



## REGULARCAB

So I was going to ask about this wiring diagram and see how the hell you read this thing to determine what resistances where what considering they don't identify the switches.... then I realized you probably just took a reading at the pin when you pushed a button.....


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


> Ok let me see if I have this correct in concept before I go too much further
> 
> You ran the audio headunit pin out (from the steering wheel controls) to the arduino and the arduino reads the resistance across the wire. The arduino is programmed to recognize what button is pushed based on that resistance


Yep. More or less. I started by cutting the wire and testing the resistance values to make sure I knew what was what for when I wired in my resistance ladder. Then I wrote a simple program that read the same wire on an analog pin of the arduino. They show resistance (or voltage, I can't remember) on a 1024 scale. So I recorded the values for each button to use in my if then statements.



REGULARCAB said:


> and then outputs an on/off signal on a certain set of pins based on how you programmed it.


Nope. The output pins of the arduino can't for some reason control the buttons directly. That's how I tried it first. Then I thought I could use an IC adjustable voltage regulator, but couldn't get that to work either. So, I ordered an I2C controlled 8 relay board on eBay. I basically duplicated the needed functions of the resistance ladder and use the relay board to send the proper resistance to the HU based on what button was pressed. Hope that makes sense. I2C is a 2 wire bus so I didn't have to use like 8 pins to control all the relays. Worked perfectly.



REGULARCAB said:


> The arduino also outputs a signal that simulates a rotary encoder to control the bitone. (this is what Im more interested in but I want to make sure I have an understanding of what else you have done first)


Essentially what I did was write if then statements that say something to the effect of:

If the value of pin 1=0 and the value of pin 2=0 and someone pressed volume up, then change the values of pin 1=0 and pin 2=1....or something to that effect. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm fairly certain it will work, or else I am on the right track, anyway.

When I get a chance (after work probably) I'll post up some of the code I used and refresh my memory on it. I haven't messed with it for a while.




REGULARCAB said:


> You used the relay board just for safeties sake?


For functionality sake. I'm sure someone out there could have done it differently, but it was easy enough for me to figure out this way.



REGULARCAB said:


> You needed the resistance ladder to convert the simple on/off signals back to different resistances because that is how the stock head unit reads it?


Pretty much.



REGULARCAB said:


> So I was going to ask about this wiring diagram and see how the hell you read this thing to determine what resistances where what considering they don't identify the switches.... then I realized you probably just took a reading at the pin when you pushed a button.....


See above, but yeah, pretty much.

Jay


----------



## eddieg

REGULARCAB said:


> So I was going to ask about this wiring diagram and see how the hell you read this thing to determine what resistances where what considering they don't identify the switches.... then I realized you probably just took a reading at the pin when you pushed a button.....



Hey there - just raising a flag here - not sure if it was noticed already or not - the Rio OEM audio system does not have SPDIF exits, but the KIA Sportage and the Optima lines are equiped with an OEM system that does... 

Just an FYI in case it is useful information for you - if such upgrade is possible then maybe it is worth it?

Thanks, 

Eddie


----------



## tyroneshoes

wow nice find with the 4 channel g


----------



## REGULARCAB

Thanks for the info jay. Next step is to take apart that controller and see what's in there.


----------



## JayinMI

eddieg said:


> Hey there - just raising a flag here - not sure if it was noticed already or not - the Rio OEM audio system does not have SPDIF exits, but the KIA Sportage and the Optima lines are equiped with an OEM system that does...
> 
> Just an FYI in case it is useful information for you - if such upgrade is possible then maybe it is worth it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eddie


I know the Rio isn't available with an amplified system, but it still uses the UVO HU which (other than the appearance) may be similar to the Optima, Sportage, etc. internally. The wires are not in the plug, but the spots are listed on the board. I'm going to try it and see if it works. If it does, cool. If not, the cable is already run for future upgrades.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

tyroneshoes said:


> wow nice find with the 4 channel g


Thanks, probably the best $75 shipped from Canada ever for me. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, Ive been working on my mirror project. In the last couple days, I shaved the reading lights and the switches for them. I'll get pics up tomorrow. The inside has been gutted so I can fit the LCD Display and the board for the DRC inside.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Gonna be one tricked out Rio!!!

Of course it would be way cooler if it made sound


----------



## JayinMI

What? All the stock equipment is still in place and working. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> What? All the stock equipment is still in place and working. lol
> 
> Jay


----------



## JayinMI

REGULARCAB said:


>


I did just pay for a new sub. 

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Oooh oooh whatcha get watcha get?


----------



## JayinMI

Illusion 10XL. I'm thinking the smaller magnet might clear the hump in the back of the sub box. Hope it doesn't lead to having to upgrade my amps. lol

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

oooh c10xl tasty


----------



## papasin

We're running the sub channel of a PDX V9 from our minivan and it does well.


----------



## JayinMI

The amp I'll be running is only rated at 360 watts bridged...but it was rated in something like 1996 with lower distortion numbers, so I'm probably closer to 500 watts by todays standards. I'm hoping for good things. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, I did some work on my DRC/mirror project. Some time ago I went to the junkyard and grabbed a bunch of rearview mirrors that had lights and such built in so that there was some room inside them for my circuit boards. The one I elected to use is from a GM product...Either a 4th gen Firebird or Sunfire I think.

This isn't the exact one, but it was similar.



Obviously, I don't need the map lights, since there is a set in the headliners, so I needed to do something about that, but first I gutted the inside of the housing and made my parts fit.





Then I shaved the lights and switches.





Now, the ribbon cable I soldered on to all those super small terminals on the DRC (.050" spacing) is too short, and some of the very small wire broke after being flexed a few times. As a (hopeful) remedy, I ordered a set of .050" headers so I might be able to use some more robust wire to make my connections. Should be here this weekend.

I'm also thinking that I might put the buttons on the mirror for my presets instead of trying to work it into the Arduino programming.

Here's a pic of the buttons I want to use (black/red led, on the right):










I will probably still work the 5th button and knob in with the volume buttons from the steering wheel.

Trying to find a cheaper source for those buttons.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Im not very learned in mirrors. Do you have to scrape the silver of the back or anything or does it just shine right through?


----------



## JayinMI

I bought a 12x12 piece of 2 way mirrored plexi. Ideally, it should end up invisible until it turns on. 

If you used the stock lens, you'd have to scrape the backing off the mirror, but then you'd have a rectangle over the LCD that was always there.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Oh good so its not as simple as I though


----------



## JayinMI

We'll see. I haven't tested it yet. lol In theory, it SHOULD work.
A lot of people use the same plexi to hide TV's and when the tv is on it shows up through it. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

All the speakers are now connected to all their respective amp channels.
Need to get the mirror project going so I can fire everything up soon.
I'm off the weekend of the 4th (4th-7th) but that will probably be the time I spend doing the HID Projector retrofit.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Uh oh...



And:







It was a busy day. Got a new phone too. lol I Got the new 2nd Gen Moto X.

The Tablet is a Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4. Best Buy had them for $249 and with the ability to run multiple windows sounded like it might come in handy for car use in the future. Not planning on putting it in yet, but probably will go eventually.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Both look pretty sexy. Papasin pretty much has me talked into an Ipad in dash, so when my wife asks ill have her make an account here and beat him up for that one lol. You should get on that tablet install so you can make all the mistakes first.....

You liking the motox so far? I frickin bricked my Nokia Lumia Icon yesterday.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Of course the that C10 would look way better installed with some watts running to it oke:


----------



## papasin

Sub looks familiar.  Regularcab, that is the C10XL (not the C10). C10/C12 have the inverted motor whereas the XLs have the neo magnet on the back. Should have gone 12 Jay.


----------



## REGULARCAB

papasin said:


> Regularcab, that is the C10XL (not the C10). C10/C12 have the inverted motor whereas the XLs have the neo magnet on the back.


That's what I meant?


----------



## papasin

REGULARCAB said:


> Papasin pretty much has me talked into an Ipad in dash, so when my wife asks ill have her make an account here and beat him up for that one lol.



Just have her talk to MrsPapasin. She's the one with the iPad in her dash, not me.


----------



## JayinMI

papasin said:


> Sub looks familiar.  Regularcab, that is the C10XL (not the C10). C10/C12 have the inverted motor whereas the XLs have the neo magnet on the back. Should have gone 12 Jay.


Only had room for the 10 where I wanted to put it, or I would have.

REGULARCAB, So far all I've done is got all my stuff moved over (pics, contacts, etc...but my apps didn't transfer?) I haven't even made a phone call with it yet. We left the Verizon Store at 8:45 (after arriving around 5:30) and went to Best Buy to pick up the tablet. Then to get dinner for my GF's dad on the way home.

So far, I like it. It's bigger than I'm used to since I came from a RAZR M. With the case on it, it's about 3/4" wider and longer than my M with no case. But the processor is fast, the wifi strength is way better, and the screen is much crisper. Only has 16GB storage (a bunch of bloatware takes away from that) and no SD card slot. I'll probably have to root it (if possible) and get rid of a lot of the stuff I don't need. Since I have an iPod for music, that should be fine for me, but probably not for most people.

Still not really happy with the camera since I've only gotten to take pics in dark conditions...we'll see how it does in daylight.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

papasin said:


> Just have her talk to MrsPapasin. She's the one with the iPad in her dash, not me.


They both look pretty scrappy, probably best to keep it to myself then :laugh:


----------



## papasin

REGULARCAB said:


> They both look pretty scrappy, probably best to keep it to myself then :laugh:


Be careful...MrsPapasin might see your post.   :laugh:


----------



## JayinMI

I have a healthy fear of Linda. LOL

Looks like I got the 18th-20th off, but have to be back in time for a doctor's appt on the 20th. If I can scrounge the money I plan on coming down to TN for finals. Probably going to roll out after work (8pm EDT) on Friday, and arrive Saturday morning, maybe crash at a hotel for a few hours and come out, come out on Sunday and leave semi early for the drive home. Then I can go to the doctor and catch up on some sleep. lol

Hoping to demo some cars so I can get a better idea what I'm shooting for.

Richard, I know the Smart is coming. Are you bringing the Civic too?

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> Richard, I know the Smart is coming. Are you bringing the Civic too?


Quite a few people have asked, and the reason why I haven't answered is I'm not quite sure yet. I'll be there, isn't that enough?


----------



## JayinMI

papasin said:


> Quite a few people have asked, and the reason why I haven't answered is I'm not quite sure yet. I'll be there, isn't that enough?


But you're the state champ for California in your class aren't you?!?
And when I mentioned wanting to hear Linda's car you said you had some other cars that were no slouches either. lol

Short answer: Yes. lol

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> But you're the state champ for California in your class aren't you?!?



So my sig says. 



JayinMI said:


> And when I mentioned wanting to hear Linda's car you said you had some other cars that were no slouches either. lol



Sure, the van is no slouch and probably the ultimate sleeper. And wait until my electric is done which probably should be ready by November. I think you need to make the trip to Cali.


----------



## JayinMI

Eventually, I will definitely have to make it out to CA. But for now, this will have to hold me over. Haha.

Is JT doing the Electric too, or are you guys doing that yourselves?
I assume it isn't just going to be a clone of Linda's car, so I'm looking forward to seeing it when it's done.

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> Is JT doing the Electric too, or are you guys doing that yourselves?
> 
> I assume it isn't just going to be a clone of Linda's car, so I'm looking forward to seeing it when it's done.



Gonna be similar to the van in terms of DIY with a little assist. And as for being a clone, no although it will be similar to a previous build. Lastly, because it is an electric the car's range wouldn't make it down to JT.


----------



## JayinMI

So, is there perhaps a Cummins Tundra in your future to tow all your show cars around? lol


My "official" vacation starts today, and so far I've just been trying to get my new tablet set up. Of course it's supposed to rain 3 of the 4 days I'm off.
This tablet will eventually go into the car, but probably not until after winter due to temperature concerns.

Jay


----------



## papasin

Lol Jay. No Tundra, and in fact, none of our cars I would consider a show car. Only Linda's Smart was "purposefully" built to optimize every facet of the install and why we got the big gun (JT) to do the whole thing. But even that vehicle is Linda's daily driver, and probably the car that is driven everyday. I go back and forth between the electric and the civic, and for long trips, we either take the civic or the van. So no vehicle gets neglected. :laugh:


----------



## REGULARCAB

Jay. When you did your kicks did you retain the stock clip on the kick panel or did you use some other method to attach them?


----------



## JayinMI

The only part of the factory kick panel that still remains is the part by the door. The rest is all new. The back side will get lined with some closed cell foam, and it bolts to the upright part of the kick panel AND the floor with 1/4-20 bolts, and rivnuts isolated with rubber washers and fender washers. I can shake the whole car with them bolted in.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Also, in case you missed it, they're vented into the frame rail.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Sweet. I'm super bored and thinking of projects to do that don't require me buying equipment yet. 

I saw the frame rail cut. I'm not apposed to it now that the car will be paid off.


----------



## REGULARCAB

My feet may hate me tho and I certainly will need a hefty grill.


----------



## JayinMI

If I were to do it again, I might go with a slimmer driver for that area so I could make the kicks less obtrusive. They're not bad, but ever since I put them in, I've noticed my knees hurt a lot more after my commute. Could also be that I just turned 41 and shouldn't be kneeling on the ground crawling under dashes.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

What I've been working on for the past day or so. (Non-audio, but pro-trip-to-finals)



Jay


----------



## 0nbagz

Looking good mate keep up the good work


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> What I've been working on for the past day or so. (Non-audio, but pro-trip-to-finals)
> 
> 
> 
> Jay


So you are one of those assholes in my rearview mirror  Lookin good


----------



## JayinMI

No, I didn't just stick a $49 12k HID kit from eBay in my stock headlights. lol

I actually opened the headlights, cut the reflector, mounted high quality projectors into it (FX-R 3.0, 2.5") with Morimoto 5k bulbs and 50W Ballasts. 
I got all the parts from Theretrofitsource.com.

That pic was before I adjusted the height. It's been a 2 day project, and of course (like most of the time) since I NEEDED it to be done for today it rained like hell last night when I was trying to mount the projectors. smh.

They will be aimed properly when I get everything back in the car. I hate being blinded by HIDs from behind, but frankly, in the rain I can't see much of anything more than like 100 feet ahead of me with the stock lights. I didn't do this for any other reason than to be able to see better at night.

This is the first time I've done this, and I don't know if I'd do it again....will have to see the end result before I judge it. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

0nbagz said:


> Looking good mate keep up the good work


Thanks!

Jay


----------



## shawnk

Can't wait to meet you at the show and see this car/system. Excellent work Jay!


----------



## JayinMI

I hope it sounds reasonably good. If I get everything playing, I don't know how much time I'll have to tune it. I'm helping a friend out on Sunday to build kicks/door panels for his (and in the future, his step-son's) Jeep.

I doubt it'll be exceptional, but I'm looking forward to (finally) hearing the Vifa tweets (had them for something like 3 or 4 years and they've never see power) and the Illusion sub. Have to mod the sub enclosure and floor a little to get everything in how I want. Glad I didn't vinyl anything yet! lol

Thanks for the compliments!

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Just a quick update. I've been cramming to get everything installed before Friday. The box has been modified, blended and smoothed out. Same with the driver side hatch trim panel. Floor needs a little work to be about perfect. Ordered new rear transverse panel to replace the one i cut up and have it ready to install. Replaced 3 burned out bulbs and the broken panels under the front bumper. Supposed to be vinyling the parts tonight after work. 

Getting there.


----------



## JayinMI

shawnk said:


> Can't wait to meet you at the show and see this car/system. Excellent work Jay!


I wish it were going to be 100%, but there will be some details that just won't be ready before we leave. Most likely, I'll be running on a SUPER quick tune...although it seems our hotel is booked up solid and we're going to arrive hours before check in so there may be some parking lot tuning if I can stay awake. lol

After purchasing 3 different spray guns of various tip sizes/pressures and not being able to get ANY of them to spray Dap Landau Top Adhesive in a useable manner, I've lined up some help for the vinyl work. Hope he doesn't back out on me tonight.

The mirror/DRC project I've been working on (and Arduino circuitry that goes with it) will probably not be ready either. Looks like, quick tune, no DRC but at least functional. I hope to have the DRC *in* the mirror and able to plug in to show that the idea works, but the buttons I wanted to order are not available ATM, so it wouldn't be completely functional anyway.

I was at the shop til 11:30 last night trying to finish fabbing trim rings and getting the car ready for the trip. I'd like to get a good night's sleep on Thursday since we're leaving from work at 8pm on Friday.

Jay


----------



## shawnk

I like your drive to get as much done as possible. All of us installers know what that's like and can certainly appreciate that :thumbsup:

What kind of gun are you using for the Dap? Also what are you using for pressure. If your pressure is too high (or too low of course) she just won't spray. I've used several guns over the years. I've found that siphon fed guns work the best. Right now I'm using the cheaper gun from YourAutoTrim (like $40 iirc) and it works like a champ. 60-70 psi seems to work best from my experience. 

I hear ya about getting some rest before the long trip. I'm going to try to get to bed early on Thursday as well. I've always been a night owl so we'll see lol.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Sounds like I was using way too much pressure when I ran it through my latex sprayer.

Get er done Jay! I can't wait to see pics. Its going to be sexy I know it.


----------



## papasin

I'll be inspecting every detail. No pressure.


----------



## JayinMI

Confirmed there is something wrong with the landau top glue I have at work. It's the consistency of maple syrup. .. the stuff we used tonight on my trim panels was more like milk. Had to leave the box and kick panels to get done, and will have to pick them up tomorrow after work. 

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Confirmed there is something wrong with the landau top glue I have at work. It's the consistency of maple syrup. .. the stuff we used tonight on my trim panels was more like milk. Had to leave the box and kick panels to get done, and will have to pick them up tomorrow after work.
> 
> Jay


The dap contact cement (not landau I believe)that I bought was certainly more like maple syrup as well. Was it just a different batch of landau you used or something entirely different?

And dude... we want pics, cuz you aren't busy or anything.


----------



## JayinMI

Dap Weldwood Landau Top and Trim Adhesive is different from every day contact cement. It's meant to be sprayed, contact cement isn't. Since I'm in a "satellite" store where we don't do a lot of custom vinyl work, I usually get the leftovers from our Custom Shop, and I'm thinking that last bit of the glue went bad...but I don't use it enough to know what it was "supposed" to look like. I specifically poured some of this batch into a cup and saw the difference. We actually did the vinyl work at another store, so their glue was fresh. 

Wish I had known before I ruined 3 spray guns.

I've got to pick up the sub box and kicks tonight after work (I get off at 8pm) so I will probably have them by 9pm, and get home around 10:30. My GF is going to have my car tomorrow so I won't be able to do anything to it. 
So when I get home, I need to install kicks, midbasses, swap 4 wheels/tires, install the sub, and probably a few other things. She said she would try to get it cleaned up for the trip so I need to make sure to clean it out first so she can vacuum and clean the upholstery. She needs to take it to get an oil change too. 

As of right now, our hotel is booked solid, so we haven't been able to get an early check in/add a day to the trip...so I can't even drop off all of our luggage, etc. when we get there before the show.

Doing this on short notice wasn't the best idea. lol

I might have to see if my GF can bring my car down and have some pick her up and drop her back off. I may NEED to have the car on Friday for some tuning. Since I can't really tune anything without midbasses or subs. lol

I'll try and get pics up either tonight or tomorrow.

Jay

Edit: Here's a couple of teasers...it was dark.


----------



## shawnk

Great teaser pic! Looks awesome!


----------



## REGULARCAB

That all sounds totally doable... Lol

What ya have there looks great!


----------



## JayinMI

OK. It's 3:30am here, and I finally have the car back together (like 99%)...

Need to plug in fuses, tune processor (somewhat), paint a trim ring, run a speaker wire and put the sub in the box. Some of which I will be doing after work, but before we leave. It means we'll get a later start than I want, but it is what it is. On the upside, our hotel had an opening that we snatched up (Thanks to GF's dad) so now we can go check in right away and not have to find stuff to do for 5 hours.

Here's some pics:





I'm going to go pass out.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Finally on our way to finals... Forgot maxi fuses, so still no sound. Lol


----------



## jtaudioacc

JayinMI said:


> Finally on our way to finals... Forgot maxi fuses, so still no sound. Lol


try a quarter


----------



## JayinMI

Picked up some fuses at Auto zone. Charging netbook tonight. Sound tomorrow, I hope.


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Picked up some fuses at Auto zone. Charging netbook tonight. Sound tomorrow, I hope.


Pffftt, you have had two years to complete and tune... no excuses!!!

Have fun down there, I'm hoping this summer to make it to a few events or at least local ones once the comps start back up.


----------



## JayinMI

I felt so bad yesterday. I got lots of compliments on the install, nd then had to tell people it didn't make sound yet. But as of right now, the netbook seems to be working, the software is downloaded for the BitOne and I know where my USB cable is. Hoping to get some tuning done in the parking lot at the hotel, and some pointers/opinions at the show.

Yesterday I got to hear Shawnk's Accord, Linda's Smart Car, DRTHJTA's JSW, and Claydo's Cobalt SS.

It's funny, I had to ask Shawn if the subs were on because I could absolutely not localize where his 15" GTi's were. lol

Hoping to get to hear Bertholomey's "little blue car," BigRed's Ram, and Captain Obvious's MS3. I saw ErinH's car, but he didn't seem to be anywhere around it. I also saw a couple of other cars I recognized, but didn't see the owners.

Damon's Jetta sounded awesome. His all Dayton speaker setup sounded awesome, especially considering he has 2 10" subs in .55 ft3. lol It souned great and image nicely with SQ tracks, and got down pretty good with "everyday" musical tracks (like Linkin Park.)

Claydo's car was a fun system. It sounded great, nice and full. Center was locked in above the dash and it had plenty of impact. Very rarely did the 8W7's seem to pull the image back. If my car could sound like this for an everyday tune, I'd be ecstatic. 

Linda's smart sounded amazing. I violated the rules by not bringing my own CD (I ran out of time, and don't have a computer with a CD burner on it) so I listened to some tracks she had setup on her iPad Mini, and was quite impressed. I hope she does well. She got judged for USACi yesterday and is getting judged for MECA today.

Anyway, going to go get ready to go, eat breakfast and be back over there around 11, I think.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, more issues. Still no sound. I spent the morning trying to find a male USB a to male USB a cable. Them found out I couldn't install drivers for the bit one because my netbook is a 64 bit one. I'm going to see if my dad has one I can have.

Today, I got to hear Justin's car (Bow down), Captainobvious's (Steve) Mazda speed 3, Jason's BRZ (Bertholomey) and finally Jim Becker's Ram (BigRed).

I'll recap late, but I had a great time and congrats to Jim for taking first in class over Mark Eldridge.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

JayinMI said:


> Well, more issues. Still no sound. I spent the morning trying to find a male USB a to male USB a cable. Them found out I couldn't install drivers for the bit one because my netbook is a 64 bit one. I'm going to see if my dad has one I can have.
> 
> Today, I got to hear Justin's car (Bow down), Captainobvious's (Steve) Mazda speed 3, Jason's BRZ (Bertholomey) and finally Jim Becker's Ram (BigRed).
> 
> I'll recap late, but I had a great time and congrats to Jim for taking first in class over Mark Eldridge.
> 
> Jay


You are making me jealous I would give my left nut to hear those cars. Did you ever get your pillars wrapped in something?


----------



## JayinMI

Not yet. I'm waiting to hear them. If they work, I'll figure out something to wrap them in. If not, I'll make new ones.


----------



## nadams5755

Looks awesome, I'd love to hear it. I may have to come see you guys soon anyway.


----------



## JayinMI

Nick, if (for some reason) you switch to a different processor, would you be interested in selling your DRC? I'm looking for a backup.


----------



## JayinMI

JayinMI said:


> Today, I got to hear Justin's car (Bow down), Captainobvious's (Steve) Mazda speed 3, Jason's BRZ (Bertholomey) and finally Jim Becker's Ram (BigRed).
> 
> I'll recap late, but I had a great time and congrats to Jim for taking first in class over Mark Eldridge.
> 
> Jay


OK, recaps:

Justin's car sounded very nice. It was interesting to hear, since I've never even seen the Planar Transducers he uses in real life, I was curious how they'd sound. I was quite impressed. He no longer has the up-front-sub, and I had to ask because his sub stayed up on or near the dash the whole time. His work with the Arduino to retain and integrate the factory knobs/switches and stuff is quite impressive. Trunk was very clean.

Steve's MazdaSpeed3 was the first car I'd ever heard with dome mids. I don't if it was because of those, or just his tune, but I really liked the way it sounded. It seemed to have more presence in the lower midrange compared to some other cars that I heard and that is something I like. He still hasn't finished his iPad motorization (haha) but someone put a BM MkIV in the dash! lol Awesome sounding car. Mark's work was very impressive.

Jason's BRZ was a nice, clean sounding install. Another of the up-front-sub cars the stage stayed, well, up front and on top of the dash. Sounded great, and Jason had some of the most interesting, fun tracks I got to hear all weekend! 

I finally got to hear Jim's truck right after he won. I was kinda waiting in line to hear it when everyone started heading up for the judging. It was dark out when I heard it, so I had no idea where the sub physically was, and if I had to guess, it would have been out on the hood. His truck had (by a wide margin) the deepest stage of any car I heard over the weekend. It sounded amazing. The Scan mids sounded great, were clean and well detailed. Instruments were individually identifiable, not smeared together at all. If you get a chance to hear it, do it. It's worth it.

Next year I WILL REMEMBER MY OWN MUSIC. It was nice to be exposed to some stuff I wouldn't normally hear (Massive Attack, Queen with the Muppets, etc.). And you know what? I don't think I heard Rebecca Pigeon once. lol


Jay


----------



## nadams5755

JayinMI said:


> Nick, if (for some reason) you switch to a different processor, would you be interested in selling your DRC? I'm looking for a backup.


i never bought a DRC, my bit ten didn't include one.


----------



## JayinMI

OK...some progress.

First off, I think I fixed my netbook. It would not recognize the hard drive about half the time. I found the ribbon cable from the HD to the board was not locked into it's connector.

Then today, I managed to find the device drivers for the AC-Link interface. From a Slovakian link to a Google drive. Installed, and now I can access my BitOne from the Netbook. I reset it so I could reconfigure all the drivers and realized I needed the setup disc audio files.

I asked someone I met at the show this past weekend if he could zip them up and send them to me, and he did.

So, now I should have everything I need to make progress and sound. I'm just trying to get the audio files recorded on the disc in the proper format.

Shouldn't be long now.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

I.





















HAVE.




















SOUND!






Just got the crossover points rough set, haven't played with T/A or EQ yet. 
One the down side, it has a hell of a turn off snap. Need to work on that, but I'm happy to have it playing now.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

What what. Nice!


----------



## JayinMI

Yep. For the first time in over 2.5 years, I have an aftermarket sound system with a sub...so I listened to an audiobook on the way home. lol

So far, the 10XL is doing pretty well, even tho the box is too small. I gave it a little 40hz boost at the amp for the time being, until I get a chance to really work on tuning it.


----------



## JayinMI

OK, went back in and read the instructions for the BitOne, reconfigured the wiring and tamed the turn off snap some. Then I spent a couple hours in the car listening to tracks from Erin's GTG disc (in FLAC) playing with the EQ. I haven't touched the TA yet and I'm pretty happy with it so far. Janet Jackson's "Go Deep," has a hell of a bassline! lol

When I was at Finals, my ears were plugged up some. They still are. In many of the cars I demoed the "center" seemed a little to the right to me. My car exhibits this same trait. Makes me feel like I'm in the ballpark.

Except for a few bass heavy or metal tracks, the stage stays up front and on top of the dash. It seems to run from outside mirror to outside mirror.
I only expect things to improve once I start working on the Time Alignment.

Then I spent another hour or so listening to tracks off my iPod. 

For just having gotten it to play, I'm ecstatic. It's way better than the Genesis ever was.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

Wish I could hear it! I haven't done a ton of time alignment but I've spent an hour here and there. It always seemed in my car to always be a little too far right or smeared and not tight.


----------



## shawnk

Jay, 

It was killer that you made the hike all the way to finals! It was great to meet you in person.  Your install is absolutely fantastic bro! The fit and finish is just about perfect, and I really enjoyed being able look at it first hand and take it all in.... awesome stuff  

I'm glad that you got a chance to take a listen to the Accord (they're just measly 12s not 15s btw... no time alignment at all, and def not tuned for competitions ) It was hard to keep up with everyone popping in and out and I honestly can't remember who got a demo. I just wish we had more time!


----------



## REGULARCAB

shawnk said:


> Jay,
> 
> It was killer that you made the hike all the way to finals! It was great to meet you in person.  Your install is absolutely fantastic bro! The fit and finish is just about perfect, and I really enjoyed being able look at it first hand and take it all in.... awesome stuff
> 
> I'm glad that you got a chance to take a listen to the Accord (they're just measly 12s not 15s btw... no time alignment at all, and def not tuned for competitions ) It was hard to keep up with everyone popping in and out and I honestly can't remember who got a demo. I just wish we had more time!


See now I really wish I could see this thing.

I did have a question now that you have sound, and we have almost the same orientation for mid/tweet. Do you notice that everything that is panned hard left or right sounds tiny? I can get an epic center with this configuration but when it pans it sounds like everything is coming from a needle point right in the center of the mid.


----------



## JayinMI

To be honest, I haven't had a lot of time listening to it. Music, anyways. Typically on my way to and from work I listen to audiobooks. When I was listening to music (initial, simple tune, no TA) I was actually pretty happy with it. I didn't notice everything collapsing into the speakers with my setup. The stage seems a little wider than where the speakers are. Say, outside mirror to outside mirror. This was playing FLAC files (ErinH's GTG disc) from my tablet through the aux port on the factory HU. I had planned to set gains and put my RTA/REW on it last weekend, but I wasn't feeling well and on Tuesday (my day off) I had a lot of stuff to do, so I didn't get a chance. 

Tonight, I set the gains up, and will probably play with crossovers/TA/etc, this weekend.

I've been following a tutorial of sorts that ErinH put up over on Caraudiojunkies.com. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

shawnk said:


> Jay,
> 
> It was killer that you made the hike all the way to finals! It was great to meet you in person.  Your install is absolutely fantastic bro! The fit and finish is just about perfect, and I really enjoyed being able look at it first hand and take it all in.... awesome stuff
> 
> I'm glad that you got a chance to take a listen to the Accord (they're just measly 12s not 15s btw... no time alignment at all, and def not tuned for competitions ) It was hard to keep up with everyone popping in and out and I honestly can't remember who got a demo. I just wish we had more time!


Thanks for the compliments! I felt horrible that I couldn't demo it for anyone. I thought I was really close, and but then I couldn't get the driver to work for the BitOne.

I chalk the trip up to experience. Now I know that I NEED to bring my own listening material and some of the etiquette to asking for demos. But I had a great time and hope to make it again. I wish more shows were listed on the MECA website, because I might consider competing a few times.

I might have to make it down to one of the NCSQ meets after remote start season is over. 

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

I wonder if that is the one Erin started here and never really finished. Ill have to check it out. I was on CAJ for a bit but haven't in a while, it seemed a little quiet over there.

I just now realized I've never played anything above 320mp3 or VBR in this car. Hell I guess I could at least throw in a CD and see what I get.


----------



## JayinMI

I wasn't really aware of CAJ, but then I met BigAl at finals and he gave me a shirt, so I figured I at least ought to check it out. lol
It's not as busy as DIYMA, but it has some of the people who were banned (or left of their own accord) from here.

Here's a link to Erin's post over there:

The Essentials of Sound Quality: IMHO


----------



## JayinMI

Well, I broke down and ordered some stuff and started a new project. (Even tho, in order for it to work, I will have to finish at least 2 more.)

I ordered a USB Hub, USB OTG y cable, USB Buddy and an Anker car charger.

I also started with this:



That's my Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4,

Then I taped off the front with blue painter's tape. It doesn't adhere as much as the green stuff, which I was worried would take my screen protector off.

Then I taped it down to a flat board and taped the hell out of everything.





I added a little kick-up at the end, because my eventual plan is to have it work like a Soundman Side Slider mount.



Then I laid down a layer of fiberglass cloth, because it conforms to shapes better, and followed that with a layer of 1.5oz mat and another layer of cloth.

It made a pan for the tablet to fit into.





More to come in a few days.

Jay

Forgot to add, I also ordered a Behringer UCA222, which will give me optical output from the USB port. Glad I already ran optical to the Bit One.


----------



## quality_sound

I like the idea but wouldn't the kickout be on the side for a slider kit? So you can engage the USB. Or are you going straight BT?


----------



## jtaudioacc

quality_sound said:


> I like the idea but wouldn't the kickout be on the side for a slider kit? So you can engage the USB. Or are you going straight BT?


you leave some space so it lays flat, then slides into the connector. i can't tell if Jay left the room or not.


----------



## charliekwin

JayinMI said:


> Well, I broke down and ordered some stuff and started a new project.


Good luck! 

If you don't know about XDA, add this to your bookmarks: Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 - XDA Forums


----------



## JayinMI

quality_sound said:


> I like the idea but wouldn't the kickout be on the side for a slider kit? So you can engage the USB. Or are you going straight BT?


It is on the side, it will be mounted landscape style. I plan to use the USB connector.



jtaudioacc said:


> you leave some space so it lays flat, then slides into the connector. i can't tell if Jay left the room or not.


Funny you should mention that. The more I thought about it, the more I wasn't sure if I left enough room...so I started another one and still don't like the way it came out. I think I might change the materials I'm working with...or switch to a fixed mount. lol




charliekwin said:


> Good luck!
> 
> If you don't know about XDA, add this to your bookmarks: Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2, 10.1, 8.4 - XDA Forums


Yep, I've been there a bunch since I started looking into doing this. I see me rooting my tablet and installing CM in the near future.

Jay


----------



## eddieg

Hi Dr. Jay, 

Short question - If I understand correctly you will be using a USB DAC - will it be used as a DAC or as a converter from USB Audio to digital/SPDIF? 

If the current consumption of the DAC is not more the 200mA then I would like to recommend HIFIMEDIY products - take a look at their USB Isolator.

And as well a MASSIVE application called USB Player Pro which is basically a high end player that completely bypasses the ALSA (advanced linux sound structure) and is sending a bit perfect digital audio stream DIRECTLY to the DAC and can play files with sample rate up to 192/24 (yes, I know, android can't do that - but as I said, android is bypassed - your DAC does it instead of the android alsa).

Thanks, 

Eddie


----------



## JayinMI

eddieg said:


> Hi Dr. Jay,
> 
> Short question - If I understand correctly you will be using a USB DAC - will it be used as a DAC or as a converter from USB Audio to digital/SPDIF?


The Behringer UCA222 will just be converting USB audio to digital optical out for use with my BitOne. From what I've seen in a couple other tablet installs, even if I eventually use a Sony head unit with App Remote to integrate other functions (BT calling, satellite radio, etc.) I should still be able to have a digital optical out directly from the tablet. But that will be something for the future.



eddieg said:


> If the current consumption of the DAC is not more the 200mA then I would like to recommend HIFIMEDIY products - take a look at their USB Isolator.


The DAC says the max current draw is 100mA. 
Here's my list of goodies that came today from Amazon/Powerwerx:

Micro USB extension cable
OTG USB y-cable (micro USB male to plug in to tablet, with male and female full size USB connectors as well)
Anker 4.8A dual port charger
AmazonBasics 4 port USB hub

And a Powerwerx USBBuddy like MrsPapasin uses for her iPad mini.

The plan is to use the Anker charger to charge the tablet and things plugged into the hub...but if that doesn't work I can use the USBBuddy. If it does work, I will probably use the USBBuddy (5V, 3A) to power my Arduino circuitry.



eddieg said:


> And as well a MASSIVE application called USB Player Pro which is basically a high end player that completely bypasses the ALSA (advanced linux sound structure) and is sending a bit perfect digital audio stream DIRECTLY to the DAC and can play files with sample rate up to 192/24 (yes, I know, android can't do that - but as I said, android is bypassed - your DAC does it instead of the android alsa).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eddie


I will have to look in to that. I'll have to look again, but I think the BitOne can only accept 16-bit, 44.1k files, I'll keep that in mind if things don't work right off the bat.

I was planning to do a side slider type of install, but the more I play with it the more I think I might just go with a fixed install. That's essentially what my plan was to begin with, and why I chose the tablet I did. I rarely use it in the house, and it was only $250. I will probably start with using the tablet by itself, and use a Sony AppRemote HU later. The mechless ones are pretty cheap, and will allow me to do hands free calling, AM/FM (for baseball/football games), and Satellite radio. I'll stash it in the glovebox or something.

I'll probably need to pick up a JoyCon at some point as well....My Arduino circuitry is set up to control volume directly on the BitOne from my steering wheel controls, but allowing everything else to pass on to the radio like normal (track up/dn, etc.)

Jay


----------



## nadams5755

JayinMI said:


> and an Anker car charger.


----------



## eddieg

Hey Jay, 

The 192/24 was just to show that you can output such sample rate out of an Android if you really want to. 

The current version of the Bit One indeed does not support that, however, they are currently working on a version that will as their BitPlay product and the Voce series and as well the Prima series - can.

But that is not the only point for using the USB Audio Player Pro - their decoder is superb and as well it bypasses all sounds, noises and other interference that are caused directly by CPU clocking, sound mixing within the tablet and Android application - it bypasses all of those and leaves you with nothing but a clean data stream that goes directly to the DAC.

Then add to it an isolated DAC and what you get is a clean, quiet - head unit. 

As well - I also got a JoyConEX but I stopped using it and I only use the DRC volume controller of the DRC - the reason for that is that the DRC volume controller is a digital volume knob and display - but the volume control as for it self, is analog and it does not remove bits from the data stream like the digital volume control in the tablet. 

Try it and what you should notice is lack of field depth and dynamics in the lower volumes when you decrease the volume from the tablet.

While if you will decrease the volume from the DRC - linearity, dynamics and depth are kept unharmed. 


One more thing to consider - many of the USB DACs are not renegotiating (recognized) by the tablet until you disconnect them from the USB HUB and reconnect them and it becomes a pain. 

I'm using CM 10.1 and a Nexus 2012 and they don't handle this event type very well so I solved it using two power suppliers and a rocker button (on/off) that if this happens to be and dongles on the USB HUB are not recognized - I just reset the hub. 

Another way is to install a fast reboot app on the tablet. 

Another way is to use OTG-Y connector with an NPN and resistor.

And another way is to find a good ROM that handles such events - Autodriod over slimkat is very good at that. but I had with it a different issue at which music was not played smoothley over a 128GB USB key.

The SONY approach works well for what I've seen. 

Thanks, 

Eddie

OH OH - one more thing I forgot - recommendation for a power supplier - I use it for the Nexus -> USB 200 DCDC by MiniBox - it is a programmable power supplier that can output up to 15A at 12V and you can regulate it to ANY Out voltage you want with increments of 0.1Volts - it is a quiet power supplier to, has good isolation.


----------



## JayinMI

My little project evolved somewhat. I decided to switch up to either acrylic or ABS and use my router to make my pan for my tablet...which led to me spending $1000 on a router table setup and new variable speed router. lol
Waiting on a couple more things, but might play with it tomorrow on my day off. 

Planning to make the April 25th NCSQ GTG at Bertholomey's house, so maybe that will motivate me to get a few things done. Gives me almost 3 months.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK. Remote Start season is winding down, the weather is warming up and I got some motivation! 

Decided to move some stuff around, so the only thing going IN the mirror is the LCD Display for the BitOne. The main part of the DRC will go down by the HU. This gave me a little better access to it.

I used a Cat6 cable I had laying around, cut it in half, and covered part of it in black techflex. 








[/URL][/IMG]

A while back I bought some mirrored plexi for this project, but decided to try it with the original glass mirror, and it didn't work as well as I had hoped, so I went back to the plexi. Works pretty good, but because the original glass was cut in a wedge shape, and the plexi isn't, I lost my day/night mirror functionality. :mean:








[/URL][/IMG]

I used some foam inside the mirror to make sure there was no rattling.








[/URL][/IMG]

I used some female .1" headers to make a couple of 8 pin plugs for the display making it an easy swap if it dies. (But didn't really get pics.)

I also made a small circuit board with a couple of RJ45 jacks on it for the cat6 to plug in to. (No pics at the moment) and then soldered some wires I had already attached to the DRC board to the RJ45 Jacks.

I've been experimenting on this particular DRC for quite some time, and I don't know if it could handle much more. I already burned a trace or two, and had to track down where they went. I may swap it for a newer one at some point, but for now, I'm OK with it.

Anyway, here's an example of how well the plexi works as a mirror:








[/URL][/IMG]

Oh, I also put some tape on the back of the plexi to block out any light from behind so it wouldn't show through and become a distraction.








[/URL][/IMG]

With it all snapped back together, I used 3 AAA batteries to fire up the backlighting just for testing. Here's some pics of the mirror/display in action.








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]

I plan to add a contrast adjustment and illumination circuit to the board with the RJ45 jacks on it so it's relatively easy to get to to make changes.

Anyway, that's it for now.

Jay


----------



## ben54b

Great work on the drc. I've only read the last couple of pages but feel I now need to head back to the start. I have a similar idea for my mirror and now I know it will work. Damn. More jobs to do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JayinMI

ben54b said:


> Great work on the drc. I've only read the last couple of pages but feel I now need to head back to the start. I have a similar idea for my mirror and now I know it will work. Damn. More jobs to do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's been slow going. But it will be "done" soon. Now that the mirrow and display can go in the car, I can play with my software for the volume control. I just need to figure out what I want to do for the buttons.

I have some ideas.

Also, regarding info on mirror mods, check out this thread:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/172136-e36-m3-basic-sq-install-ppi-cdt.html

He did something similar. 

Jay


----------



## DLO13

JayinMI said:


>



so legit.


----------



## hot9dog

love the mirror!!! heck yeah, killer!


----------



## eddieg

Hi Jay, 

I have a question as for the DRC LCD screen - mine is totally burnt out by now and I wish to replace its LCD - 

What LCD do I need to buy? it is 2 lines but how many rows? 

I mean is it a 2*16 LCD and as well would any LCD do or do I require a specific voltage? 

As well - what are the pin wirings required? 

Thanks!

Eddie


----------



## JayinMI

Hey Eddie,

The original display had a part number of:
CC1602I-D-BSXTSWN-101

The link I have to the datasheet is now broken, so I can't find any info. Doing a search just finds a bunch of foreign language sites referring the the Audison DRC. 

I replaced mine with a red on black 16x2 LCD from Sparkfun

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/791

Now, I found that the pinouts were slightly different, the Sparkfun display is much larger than the original BitOne display, and the pins are of a different pitch. The original display has 15 pins at 1.27mm spacing. The Sparkfun Display has 16 pins 2.54mm spacing. This also means you wouldn't be able to attach it directly to the board as a replacement. This didn't concern me because of my plans for it anyway, but it might be a problem for you.

Jay


----------



## eddieg

Hey Jay, 

Thanks! well on the sparkfun site there is a datasheet 

https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/LCD/HD44780.pdf

But I'm not sure if I can figure out from it the exact pinout and which wire on the DRC display should be connected to which PIN on the sparkfun - by the way - how many wires did you had to extend - all 15? did you write down which wire goes to which pin? 

I don't care about installing the DRC install elsewhere and extended on a wire as long as it works  

Thanks!

Eddie


----------



## JayinMI

eddieg said:


> Hey Jay,
> 
> Thanks! well on the sparkfun site there is a datasheet
> 
> https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/LCD/HD44780.pdf
> 
> But I'm not sure if I can figure out from it the exact pinout and which wire on the DRC display should be connected to which PIN on the sparkfun - by the way - how many wires did you had to extend - all 15? did you write down which wire goes to which pin?
> 
> I don't care about installing the DRC install elsewhere and extended on a wire as long as it works
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Eddie


Yeah, I can find the datasheet for the Sparkfun unit. The one for the original DRC display is the broken link.

Ha! I just went back through my downloads and found the other datasheet.

I'll shoot you some info in a PM. 

On a side note, in my application, the display is actually kind of dim behind the mirrored plexi. It becomes all but invisible once it gets to be light out. I may switch to a black on red display to see if it helps.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

I switched displays, and have the same problem. If it's daytime, you can't see anything.

I hope to come back to it someday, but for now I decided to mount it in place of my map lights.

OK. Since the mirror idea didn't work as well as I hoped, I moved on...and the way I did it would allow me to switch back to the mirror if I figure it out in the future.

The day started off at 16 degrees, with a projected high of 45. I started when it was about 22 and I think it got to 38 in the sun. Yay. 

Anyway, I decided to scrap the map lights in the front of the car. I'm going to put the LCD up there, and then use one of the mirrors I got at the junkyard that already has map lights built in.

Here was my project for today.

Started with the map light pod.





Then I cut out the center bar, and made a piece of 1/8" ABS to fit.



Figured out where I wanted to cut it.











Got me to here:



Made these little buggers to add a little flair to the project.


----------



## JayinMI

And basically ended up here:









Then tomorrow, I can do a little more bonding, sanding, grinding and bodywork to get it all smoothed out and pretty.

Jay


----------



## bbfoto

Looks great, Jay. You could probably fit 5mm White LEDs in your ABS bezel on either side of the display, but i guess if the mirror that you picked up will handle that, there's no need.


----------



## JayinMI

So, the other night I started noticing what I thought was a mechanical noise in my right midbass. This resulted in a conversation with someone about it, who in turn talked to someone else, which got some new midbasses shipped to my door. 

These are the Vector 6.5's. They are one of Rishi's designs.





These are replacing my Dayton RS180's. 
I put them in tonight, but I think they are out of phase with my mids and tweets. Oops.

Anyway, here's a comparison to the Daytons:



Obviously, the Dayton's have a larger outer diameter...





But measuring from outer edge of the surround to outer edge of the surround is withing about a 1/16". 

Anyway, here's an installed pic:



Just had to drill some new holes for mounting.

A little too soon to have an opinion, but I figure a few days should give me some good break-in time and a chance to play with polarity.

The clarity does seem much improved so far.

Jay


----------



## ben54b

They are purty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JayinMI

After talking to someone else, I got my volume control to (kinda) work!

Basically, I have one piece of software that filters out Vol up/dn and mode and passes the rest back to the factory HU. 



Then I wrote a second piece of software that just used a couple of buttons on a breadboard to trigger my simulated rotary encoder. After working on it here and there, I finally got it working tonight! Turns out I had a small syntax error that was keeping it from working!

Big Thanks to Pocket5s for catching it.

Anyway, here's the video of it working:



Now I just (basically) need to cut and paste some parts of one into the other.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Well, made it to Jason's GTG and had a great time. (Thought I) Lost my tune/TA settings like the day before leaving, and in an effort to make it listenable for a 700+ mile trip, I flattened it out and zeroed out the TA.

What basically happened was I spent 2 or 3 hours making some progress on a tune, and then I had to run another cable up to my overhead BitOne display. I pulled the glovebox, ran the cable, reinstalled the glovebox and BAM! The right side seemed quieter and the image shifted to the left (above the cluster.)

So, it wasn't the best it's ever been, but it was listenable and as I told a few people "with it all flat/zeroes out, I don't HATE it. I figure that means it has some potential."

Then I got to listen to Steve's wife's (Mrs. Obvious) car. Right before I got in it, Babs was telling Steve how well focused and located the center was. I got it and (for me) it was above the cluster...

Turns out my ears are plugged or draining or something and it's throwing everything off. Driving through the Appalachian mountains probably didn't help. 

Today, a job we had booked for the rest of the week didn't show (or call  )so I had a little free time. I made a "jig" of sorts to help me TA my car. It's basically a dowel attached to a 1/4" mdf plate. The dowel is cut so that the center is pretty much where the center of my head is when I'm driving. I used different colored pieces of wire to measure the distance to each speaker, then too them inside, measured them all and determined the difference measurements. 

I plugged those into the BitOne and made a few slight adjustments, and everything is in front of me now. So, I feel like I'm headed in the right direction. 

I'm going to play with phase next. I'm pretty happy with stage height and width, the depth still sucks, and on most songs even when everything seems spaced correctly, the drum set goes from side to side. It seems bigger than everything else. I'm hoping maybe phase will help depth, or the drum issue or both.

Then I'll probably play with it by ear for a few days and then RTA it and see what I think I need to fine tune. 

I also think there's a good chance I'll be changing my Sub setup. The Illusion C10XL I have is an impressive sub, but the enclosure I have is too small for it and it just doesn't do what I want. 

Here's my jig:



The smaller horizontal dowel slides through so I can adjust where the top is. When I measured myself the other day my ears are about 7" from the headrest, this lets me adjust that.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Just wanted to say thanks to Jason (Bertholomey) for taking some time out of his busy schedule to help with my car. He happened to be near me for work, so we met up and he helped me get the stage in my car pretty well sorted out. What was a big help was seeing how he did it, so now if I need to redo it, I have some idea how to get the results I want.

And it sounds pretty good. Just need to EQ it now.

But I think there might be something up with my HU. Because when I left my center was pretty nice. Then a quiet track came on and I turned it up. After 20 on the volume scale everything shifted to the left. 

And then I switched to the radio and everything was in the left side pillar, pretty much. 

CD's actually stage pretty well, but everything else is way to the left! 

I'll look in to it, but it's getting there!

Thanks again, Jason!


----------



## JayinMI

Made some progress:







Joycon EXR hooked up just to do basic functions of Vol up/dn, track up/dn, play/pause, mute. I'm not yet running my integration with the BitOne because it takes up a lot of room, and I think I might have overwritten my working software....but using it with the EXR might let me use some different hardware to make everything take up less room.

Signal path is:

Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 -> AmazonBasics 4 port hub -> Behringer UCA222 -> Optical to BitOne. the Joycon is also hooked to the hub. I plan to add a video capture piece to integrate the backup camera at a later date.

But now I can at least try everything out.

Bass sounds MUCH better...I'm thinking the factory radio had some sort of equalization that backs the bass down at high volumes...and I had the setup tuned at like 34 of 35. 

Jay


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## damonryoung

Looking good Jay!


Beware of autocorrect...


----------



## quality_sound

I want to do a tablet install but I hate android and an ipad won't fit. Well, not easily or cosmetically, but this REALLY makes me want to try.


----------



## JayinMI

I'm a Mac user...but I prefer Android phones. I was between the Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 and an iPad Mini. One advantage for the Mini is that Soundman already makes kits for it to mold into the dash. Mrs. Papasin has also figured out a lot of the stuff needed for integration. However, I also found it wouldn't fit. The GTP fit where I wanted to put it, had higher screen resolution that the iPad Mini Retina, and I knew apps like Tasker and the Joycon were available to work with the GTP...besides, I can fab my own panels. lol

I was going to wrap the dash bezel in vinyl so that I didn't have to paint the dash trim on the other side of the steering column. I figured if I could wrap it, that if I changed my mind later I could reinstall the factory HU and unwrap it so the pieces would still match...but then I realized that Plastidip might be a better solution giving the same results. Dipyourcar.com offers it in a charcoal gray that should be pretty close to the factory dash color.
That's the next step.

Now I need to work on some Tasker profiles to get it to:

Turn on with the ignition,
look to see if my ELM327 ODBII Bluetooth unit is available
if so keep the screen on
On power loss, close the screen and put the unit to sleep. 
I might do a tasker profile on my phone to automatically setup a wifi hotspot...if it's possible.

But it's in enough for me to play with and I can see if I'll even like it.

Currently, I've lost my SiriusXM, AM/FM, iPod, handsfree, streaming and backup camera.

I've seen some guys running Nexus 7's using a video capture to USB device to do it (it can be triggered via the Joycon), so I'm confident I can get that functionality back.

I can put all of my music (and then some) on the SD card, using iSyncr to sync my iTunes library to my tablet. I can "replace" SiriusXM with Spotify, I think. 

I'm waiting on the creators of ACUI to bring out there A2DP module that (from what I understand) will allow me to control my phone (as well as have sound from my calls pass through my tablet...but I may be wrong. Waiting to see for sure.) Temporarily, I'll probably just get a clip on BT speaker for it.

I can use some different radio apps to listen to some things, so AM/FM might now be a big deal. I really only listen to baseball and some football on there, so I may just get the MLB At Bat app for the $19.99 it costs for the whole season.

I think I can work around most of the losses. 

Jay


----------



## jtaudioacc

mac user with an android phone. gotta be the blackest sheep in the bunch. LOL


----------



## JayinMI

It's mainly because everytime Apple updates iOS, the car integration stuff from most manufacturers takes a while to catch up. Or they change cables or something else stupid.

If this doesn't work like I want, I'll probably pick up a Pioneer 4100NEX. 
Android Auto is pretty sweet on the NEX stuff.

I have a Netbook for tuning stuff, but it sucks. Slow, constantly updates, etc.

My Macbook is 7 years old, all I've done is upgrade to 10.7 and swap the hard drive for an SSD and it's plenty fast, error free and workes great. I will probably get a new Macbook next year.

Jay


----------



## quality_sound

I don't think Apple will get away from Lightning for a good long while. It's pretty future-proof. 
I've used spotify and don't consider it a replacement for XM. I've found android to have the same issues after updates as well and since they update more often it's was always more of a PITA for me. That said, being open-source the DIY community has a TON of stuff figured out. I thought there was an FM app. I just remembered the iPod Nano has an FM tuner. I wonder why Apple hasn't incorporated that into ANY other products. FM in an iPad would be awesome. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JayinMI

Some Android phones have FM radio built in...but from what I've read, it uses the headphone cable as the antenna, so it won't work without headphones.

I know Spotify isn't a replacement for XM, but the SiriusXM app sucks. If it comes down to it, I'll just shift my account back to my GF's Jeep and then add online listening and deal with the app.

Jay


----------



## damonryoung

I tried keeping the XM app too on my iPad and found it unusable. 

I came across this site recently concerning fm radio on smart devices. 

http://freeradioonmyphone.org


Beware of autocorrect...


----------



## JayinMI

I've had this in for a few days now. So far, I like it, but with baseball season in full effect, I miss having FM radio available to me. 
Most of the radio-over-internet apps I've tried are subject to MLB blackout, so I can't listen to the games that way. I rooted my tablet the other day using 
CFAutoroot, and downloaded Tasker as well as Secure Settings (which requires rooting). 

Something else I've noticed is that my battery isn't working quite like it should. I'm using an Anker 4.8A smart charger for the car to supply power via an OTG Y cable and then have a 4 port hub and my Joycon EXR and Behringer UCA222 plugged into the hub. As soon as I plug it in, it says "Battery fully charged, disconnect charger." But when I take it out, it drops to about 70%. The same happened when I had it on charge in the house on the AC charger. Hopefully a power down/reset will solve it. (Not holding my breath.)

My plan with Tasker is to set up profiles to make it act the way I want in the car.

Like have it auto dim to something like 70% at 7pm, then to 50% at 8pm.
Keep the screen from turning off while plugged into the car (detects the Joycon as a keyboard. When I shut the car off, it loses coms with the Joycon and says "keyboard disconnected.) Or I could have it look to see if the Roadster 2 I bought is near.
Turn the screen off, close all tasks and go to sleep when I turn the car off.
Turn GPS off unless I run apps that require it (like Waze, Google Maps or Google Navigation)
I also need to program long presses on the track up/dn buttons to fast fwd/fast rewind on the Joycon.
I wish I could use the Joycon to activate Google Voice (or whatever it's called) via my handsfree button...I'll have to look more into that.

One other thing I realized after getting it basically done. The velvet sticks to the faux leather backing on the GTP 8.4, so it takes some work to get it to slide and dock with the USB connector. I may look at other fabrics for that part of the install.

I ordered some charcoal gray plastidip that should be here on Tuesday to redo the bezel with. I went with PD because there is a matching piece on the left side of the cluster that needs to match...but this way I can peel it off later if I swap the factory radio (or any radio, for that matter) back in.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

OK, the charging problem seems to have solved itself. It's worked fine ever since. Here's some pics/video:







Got my factory camera powered up, and I can get a picture through my video capture device on my Netbook, but it doesn't seem to be compatible with my tablet. The Easycap device I ordered on Amazon was a USB007 chipset, so I just ordered an STK1160 version from eBay to see if that works.

Jay


----------



## Kazuhiro

Looks great, what I am aiming for too.
Have you got any more pictures of the tablet mount in the making?
I see how you've done the soundman style slide in, but in the video it looks like the above layer has a lip/overhang over it when you slide in in? Or am I just seeing things lol.


----------



## JayinMI

Seicane said:


> I think the stereo is out of date
> I've just replaced mine with this :
> 7 inch Autoradio Navigation System for 2012 2013 Kia K3 Rio Pride with HD Touch Screen TV Tuner WiFi 3G CD DVD Player Bluetooth Music USB SD AUX DVR POP IPOD IPhone MP3 Backup Camera


My experiences installing "factory fit" Android based radios in cars has not been good. If they last 6 months, that's usually about as good as you get. I've done a few and they've all had software issues and had to be shipped back to China for repair/replacement. 




Kazuhiro said:


> Looks great, what I am aiming for too.
> Have you got any more pictures of the tablet mount in the making?
> I see how you've done the soundman style slide in, but in the video it looks like the above layer has a lip/overhang over it when you slide in in? Or am I just seeing things lol.


Not really on the top and bottom, but there is an overhang to the right side under the ABS layer so there is room for the tablet to move. Let me look for the pics of the parts I made to do it. Also, Soundman has a video on his Youtube channel about how to build a "cheap slider" kit. I started working on mine right before the video came out, lol.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Here's some pics of the construction:

I first taped up my tablet and cut out a piece of wood with a hole in it slightly larger than that the tablet itself. Then I taped the piece of wood down so it wouldn't move, and used body filler to take up the space and to give me an exact negative of the tablet. I can't seem to find the pics. This is the closest I can find.



Even tho that is a piece of wood cut slightly smaller, I used it to make a dupe of the tablet so I didn't have to risk damaging the tablet while routering. I used the same technique as above with body filler to get a perfect positive.

Used that to make a jig out of some 1/4" mdf.





I also left a notch to clear the buttons on the bottom.



Then I made a copy out of 1/8" ABS. After that I made a new piece out of 1/4" MDF and extended the opening to the right about 3/8". I can't find any pics.

I used the ABS on the top layer because it bonds to the ABS dash kit better and is less likely to show seams over time, versus using wood. 

A combination of CA Glue and ABS dust was used to hold things in place.
I ground the ABS layer and edges of the dash kit (once cut for the tablet) with 36 grit paper. I used Duraglass to bond the new piece in and shape it.





Followed by regular filler (Easylight) and some SEM texture coat (as seen above) which makes an acceptable high build primer in lieu of actual high build primer. lol

Then I painted it with SEM Trim Black (which doesn't match the dash nearly as well as it looks in this pic). 



Later, I redid the dash kit and the gray trim on the left side of the cluster with Charcoal Plastidip. I chose that because if I switch back to the factory radio (or an aftermarket one in a Metra kit) I can just peel the PD off the piece by the cluster and everything will still match.



The piece behind the kit is wrapped in black velvet. I did that because I didn't want to see the edges of a piece of suede when glued in, and it was cheaper than buying all the stuff to flock it.



Hope that helps some.

Jay


----------



## REGULARCAB

See Jay, I figured all I had to do was wait long enough and steal all your amazing ideas. Nice work man.

Life got crazy, still sitting w a half tuned system... A year (?) later.


----------



## FromSochi

Now i have problem with drc, help me))


----------



## JayinMI

Wanted to thank Linda for taking a few minutes to listen to my car and give me some feedback. Her and Richard were busy enough with everything they had going on. 

I haven't had much interest in my car for the last few months because of a metal on metal clunk that developed from the back from the car. 

I had the heat shields checked, they were OK.
All the exhaust hangers were good in place.

So I FINALLY got (made) a chance to look underneath the car and found the problem. The rubber was MISSING from both bottom shock mounts. Outer ring was intact, inner metal bushing was intact, rubber -- ALL GONE! I've never even heard of that happening. And they suspension is aftermarket I imported from Korea so the local auto parts stores (ALL OF THEM) were no help. Finally ordered some Prothane pivot bushing and cleared it right up...so now I don't hate my car anymore.

But Linda gave me some positive feedback, as well as some things she noticed that I should work on, so I will get back to that after I get some things done on my project truck. 

I need to get the roof welded back on, the motor and trans out of the donor truck (and get rid of the rest of the donor) and everything out of the driveway before it snows. 

Then I might have some time do audio stuff. lol

Jay

Here's a link to my PB album for my Finals pics:

2015 Unified Finals Huntsville AL by Jay McGraw | Photobucket


----------



## JayinMI

JayinMI said:


> I need to get the roof welded back on, the motor and trans out of the donor truck (and get rid of the rest of the donor) and everything out of the driveway before it snows.


Yep. Didn't happen. lol

Got to the point where I needed both vehicles to be kinda mobile, so I worked on that. Didn't want to pull the motor and stuff from the Silverado until I had room for it in the garage...and Beckerson1 is dropping his car this week for some work, so I didn't want it in the way.

So, the previous owner of thr S-10 said I just needed to bleed the brakes. That he had put new wheel cylinders on it, and that it should be good to go.

So, What I found:

The front brake hoses (and banjo bolts and washers) we missing, new calipers and pads, the rear brakes were OLD and WORN OUT and the rear brake hose has collapsed. 

I replaced front brake hoses, et al, the rear brake hardware on one side after I messed up the wheel cylinder after I stripped the bleeder screw.

So, it should be movable after I get done with Justin's Civic. 

Silverado battery is shot but can run if jumped, so I can move it easily enough. 

Also, I managed to stick my finger in a running router (1/4" spiral flush trim bit) so that slowed things down a little. Pics on request, lol.

The last few days, I've been cleaning the garage, hanging new lights, and bought a propane heater.

I went from 1 incandescent bulb to 4 4' LED shop lights and it lights the whole place up like mad. Should have done this years ago.

About to go back out and put a stereo out there, and continue cleaning.

I'm also considering some updates before Jason's meet in April. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

With helping to build our new display board, and getting ready for Bertholomey's meet in April, I guess I didn't feel like I had enough to do...









I decided to go ported with the sub, since I'm running about half the power it wants to see, I need more output from what I have. Only place to put the correct size box is in the spare tire well...that means the amp rack has to go.

The old sealed enclosure was only .55cu ft (about .2 too small) and was OK, but I want to change it up.

So I used the new EXP8 from 12Vtools (the first one sold, I'm told.) to make a copy of my original panel. No point reinventing the wheel. lol



Then I routered the back side with a 60 degree router bit. Looks much cleaner, even if it is on the back side.



Hard to see, but a nice tight fit with no filler.



The other side was a little different shape, so I made some mods to the original template and got the other side to fit just right.





Amps are going in a floating rack against the seat, sub is going in the spare tire well. Probably something Bing-esque for the truck floor. lol

Jay


----------



## lenivets

Hi, your project helped me to finish my CarPC project.
But i have some problems with DRC for Audison. Can you give some info how you made control for DRC from Arduino ? Added some cable from Arduino inside DRC to DigitalEncoder pins ?

I'm currently controlling my volume from wheel buttons - > Nexus 7. But it's not where comfortable to change volume in Tablet + DRC. So i'm working to emulate DRC to Audison..
I tried to attach DigitalEncoder to cable from DRC (white,black,red cables) - but volume is not changing 

Will be very appreciative for your help..


----------



## JayinMI

I haven't had it hooked up for a while, so I'd have to go back and look, but I actually tapped wires to the board where the rotary encoder was. I believe I used an I2C relay board instead of the pins straight from the Arduino. 

I plan to revisit this in the very near future. I simplified for a while, and just used a Joycon EXR for volume control from the tablet...but it's not quite what I want. I got it working, but it was ugly, so I want to clean it up some.

Jay


----------



## lenivets

JayinMI said:


> I haven't had it hooked up for a while, so I'd have to go back and look, but I actually tapped wires to the board where the rotary encoder was. I believe I used an I2C relay board instead of the pins straight from the Arduino.
> 
> I plan to revisit this in the very near future. I simplified for a while, and just used a Joycon EXR for volume control from the tablet...but it's not quite what I want. I got it working, but it was ugly, so I want to clean it up some.
> 
> Jay


Thank you Jay, for answer.
It's bad to know that you left work around Arduino 
I hope you will continue, your interesting project 

Have a good day !


----------



## JayinMI

A little more work...







Jay


----------



## djfourmoney

@Jay 

I will be trading in my '15 Accent Sport sometime in the summer. However I do want to try and keep it if I could.

I was wondering what your final air space was + port size + Hz. 

Did you also get the additional output you wanted?


----------



## JayinMI

djfourmoney said:


> @Jay
> 
> I will be trading in my '15 Accent Sport sometime in the summer. However I do want to try and keep it if I could.
> 
> I was wondering what your final air space was + port size + Hz.
> 
> Did you also get the additional output you wanted?


I went to several different websites, and the ported setup for that sub was recommended around 2.75 cu ft and tunes in the low 30's...but I didn't have the room for that. So, I went with a proper sized sealed enclosure. The old enclosure was .55 (recommended .75) and plan to upgrade to more powerful amps later.

I couldn't tell you if it will do what I want, since I haven't finished redoing the hatch and have just been rocking the factory radio and rear speakers for about 2 weeks now.

Jay


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Jay, 

Nice work on the tablet it came out VERY nice. Don't know if you 
recall but we spoke awhile back about my using a Galaxy 8.4 with 
my Sony XES system. 

ANYWAY, I did read where you couldn't find the photo's of much
of that part. I'm wondering about the charge wire. I see it in one
of the photo's. I'm wondering with as tight of an install, how was
the wire and plug itself mounted so it doesn't push in. Also, I've
seen where others make the pocket it sits in larger but the face
of the pocket smaller. So, the process to put it in, you put it in
and slide it to the side to plug it in. I like what you have done 
far better. I'm just wondering how all that works with the one
you have made? Also, sorry for missing it; but, what are you 
converting the signal to? RCA or TOSLINK or other, and what
you used for the conversion/charging? I'm trying to convert
mine into TOSLINK in order to run into Sony's XA-U40D. In
other words I'm trying to trick my XES-P1 into thinking the
tablet is a changer.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer up.

Cheers, 
Scott


----------



## djfourmoney

JayinMI said:


> I went to several different websites, and the ported setup for that sub was recommended around 2.75 cu ft and tunes in the low 30's...but I didn't have the room for that. So, I went with a proper sized sealed enclosure. The old enclosure was .55 (recommended .75) and plan to upgrade to more powerful amps later.
> 
> I couldn't tell you if it will do what I want, since I haven't finished redoing the hatch and have just been rocking the factory radio and rear speakers for about 2 weeks now.
> 
> Jay


 That's pretty much why I didn't go any further either. 

I don't know if a single 8 inch will provide the deep bass and go loud.

There some ridiculous long throw 8" on the market but they require deep mounting as well.

Space Saving Semi-Fiberglass Subwoofer Enclosure in a 2012 Accent - Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum

Maybe I'll just get a Sundown SA-8 v3. If I get a Fiesta ST there isn't much space in those either...

At least I know one SA-8 may tolerate the abuse -


----------



## JayinMI

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Jay,
> 
> Nice work on the tablet it came out VERY nice. Don't know if you
> recall but we spoke awhile back about my using a Galaxy 8.4 with
> my Sony XES system.
> 
> ANYWAY, I did read where you couldn't find the photo's of much
> of that part. I'm wondering about the charge wire. I see it in one
> of the photo's. I'm wondering with as tight of an install, how was
> the wire and plug itself mounted so it doesn't push in.


If I'm understanding you correctly, you're asking how I mounted the USB cable for the tablet to dock into? I notched the MDF portion of my "kit" slid the tablet in place, docked the USB cable, and CA glued the micro USB end in place. I carefully removed the tablet, and IIRC (it's been a little while) I used some body filler (might have been fiberglass reinforced) to fill in the rest of the gap around the plug and keep it from moving.



FLYONWALL9 said:


> Also, I've
> seen where others make the pocket it sits in larger but the face
> of the pocket smaller. So, the process to put it in, you put it in
> and slide it to the side to plug it in.


Like this?

[URL=http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc315/97acrcoupe/2012%20Rio/MOV02883_zpssr4vxbya.mp4][/URL]





FLYONWALL9 said:


> I like what you have done
> far better. I'm just wondering how all that works with the one
> you have made? Also, sorry for missing it; but, what are you
> converting the signal to? RCA or TOSLINK or other, and what
> you used for the conversion/charging? I'm trying to convert
> mine into TOSLINK in order to run into Sony's XA-U40D. In
> other words I'm trying to trick my XES-P1 into thinking the
> tablet is a changer.
> Thanks in advance for any help you can offer up.
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott


I'm using a Behringer UCA222 to convert my signal to Toslink, which runs back to my Bitone and then I use VERY short RCA's to my amps. Longest one is 3 ft.

The USB cable that the tablet actually docks in to, is an OTG Y cable. Then on one side I used an Anker car charger (with smart charging) to charge the tablet, I plugged a slightly modded Amazon Basics 4 port hub into the other side of the Y cable. I sliced the cable open from the hub, and cut the power feed. I then used a USB Buddy (3A, 5V power supply) to power the hub, but left the other end of the power wire unused so it doesn't backfeed to the tablet. The 4 port hub then powers my Joycon EXR, my FM tuner dongle, my backup camera interface (the app I was using stopped working, and is no longer available, however) and a male to female USB cable to I can plug in USB thumb drives and stuff.

Hope that helps.

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Little more work...

Mocking up a kerf on a compound angle.















Need to see if I can dig up a slot cutting bit and router some angles and cut out the center, but looks like it should work like I want.

Jay


----------



## hot9dog

The final look is starting to come thru.... good work with the kerfing


----------



## JayinMI

I scrapped those pieces (since they weren't going to work like I wanted.) And started over. Luckily the pieces above worked as a "proof-of-concept" and to help line things up while kerfing the new pieces.



Made 3 1/4" templates and 2 out of 1/2".
1/2" will be the front, 1/4" pieces will be the back.
I made all my pieces, routered all the edges how I wanted, and THEN cut the kerfs. Seemed to work better.



















Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Scrapped that idea too. The back kerfed pieces broke, and a couple of the joints didn't bond well in the front piece so I went a different direction...

I went out to the garage after work, and came up with something I liked. I've been trying to do this on a tight budget, I've probably got a little over $100 in wood, and a few misc. things, but other than that I'm trying to keep it cheap. 

Here's what I came up with tonight:







The back side...I cut a groove for the LED strips to sit in for the edge lit plexi (I had a 2' x 4' piece of 1/8 laying around)







Garage is absolutely trashed! lol...The circle in the middle will eventually have a CNC'd/edge lit plexi badge repping the shop I work at...for now this is just one of my Sonus circles stuck with template tape. 



Here's where I'm at right now. Just held in place with template tape for the pic.



Jay


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## TheDavel

Jay, your build is really coming along brother! I love all the attention to detail and next level fab going on!


----------



## JayinMI

TheDavel said:


> Jay, your build is really coming along brother! I love all the attention to detail and next level fab going on!


Thanks, Dave. Not sure how much "next level fab" is going on, but I'm pretty happy with it. lol. Trying to get it done this weekend. If I'd have gotten it done last weekend, I probably would have build new A-pillar pods, as well.

BTW, Anyone want to buy a Fukuda jig? the 12x12 one? I could use the money. lol

Jay


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## bertholomey

I'm looking forward to seeing this!


----------



## TheDavel

JayinMI said:


> Thanks, Dave. Not sure how much "next level fab" is going on, but I'm pretty happy with it. lol. Trying to get it done this weekend. If I'd have gotten it done last weekend, I probably would have build new A-pillar pods, as well.
> 
> BTW, Anyone want to buy a Fukuda jig? the 12x12 one? I could use the money. lol
> 
> Jay


I'll buy it #becausebroshelpbros you've got PM-


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## Ericdd

I think this looks much better than the design you were originally going for



JayinMI said:


> Here's where I'm at right now. Just held in place with template tape for the pic.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Ericdd said:


> I think this looks much better than the design you were originally going for




This was closer to my original idea, but now that I look at it, it looks like a face, and I'm glad I changed.

Jay


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## JayinMI

Worked on my side panels. Openings are the same height as the amp "window," and I was going to do plexi painted black from behind, but the plexi I had was scratched up pretty bad, so I'm going to paint some Sintra (1/8" expanded PVC) black instead, mesh will be painted the same gray as the center bar. The wood "leg" has to do with how I'm going to mount the center bar.









This is going over the sub and under the carpeted panels.



Some small details I plan to work on today if it gets over 30 degrees, and I should be able to wrap it early this week.

Jay


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## JayinMI

OK. I think everything is ready to wrap...













I left a groove for an aluminum rod where the vinyl on the sides and carpet meet. Should look pretty nice.

Jay


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## hot9dog

This should turn out Fricken nice!!!!


----------



## JayinMI

OK. So, for those of you who didn't get to see my hatch at Jason's meet, let's get caught up. lol

Heavy gauge mesh on the trunk bottom to protect the woofer, and actually support weight this time.



Made the front and top amp rack cover into 1 piece...



Top layer, truck floor wrapped in carpet...



Right side panel, wrapped.



At the last moment, I decided I was going to make time for molded mesh grilles instead of flat ones. Here's the Jig. My initial plan was to use a different mesh, but it tore when I tried to press it, so I used some mesh from my old trunk setup and it came out really nice.



Sub trim panel



Trunk floor:



Amp rack:



All together, still need to paint and add LED strips to the center bar. It's held in with magnets and rests on the things that hold shelves on like entertainment centers. 



I'll get some closeups of the grilles on the sides once the center bar is painted and lit up.

Jay


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## LBaudio

very nice


----------



## JayinMI

I made some more progress...



Jay


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## Azskateman

That Looks Awesome


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## lenivets

Hi, Jay.
I got same car but euro version.. (Cee'D)
And trying to make volume control though Arduino, i already made control of volume in my Tablet (Nexus 7 (2gen)).
But how did you control volume into DRC ?
Did you try to emulate all DRC with I2C protocol ? There is 2 addition cables in DRC, I2C need 4 cables, in DRC there are 6 cables..

Or most easy way is to take Encoder off the plate and replace it with a wires to move it out DRC ?

I would be very appreciate for some info about How you control DRC with Arduino..


----------



## Jscoyne2

JayinMI said:


> I made some more progress...
> 
> 
> 
> Jay


How do you create a waveguide like that for the pillars?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## JayinMI

lenivets said:


> Hi, Jay.
> I got same car but euro version.. (Cee'D)
> And trying to make volume control though Arduino, i already made control of volume in my Tablet (Nexus 7 (2gen)).
> But how did you control volume into DRC ?
> Did you try to emulate all DRC with I2C protocol ? There is 2 addition cables in DRC, I2C need 4 cables, in DRC there are 6 cables..
> 
> Or most easy way is to take Encoder off the plate and replace it with a wires to move it out DRC ?
> 
> I would be very appreciate for some info about How you control DRC with Arduino..


I removed the rotary encoder from the DRC board and interfaced it using an I2C 8 relay board. I soldered direct to the DRC's circuit board. I don't have the equipment to interface wit hthe cable betweem the DRC and the BitOne, so this was easiest for me. I wrote my own software. Essentially a lot of "if/then" statements and I2C encoding to make the relays turn on or off to simulate the DRC. If you look on Car Audio Junkies, there might be more info in my thread over there. One of the other users and I were discussing how I did it.
Also, there's a guy who makes a steering wheel control interface for Android devices. I use one. It's called a Joycon EXR.



Jscoyne2 said:


> How do you create a waveguide like that for the pillars?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


Popsicle sticks. Seriously.



I originally took a mold of the window area, so when I rebuilt these I cut the front part off so I didn't have to go through it all again. I made a PVC ring to mount the speaker to, wrapped it in Cintra to get a recessed area, used popsicle sticks to get my basic shape, and finished with body filler.

Looks cool, but SUPER hard to vinyl wrap. I need to adjust the design or the shape a little to get it where I'd want.

Jay


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## 1FinalInstall

I'm so happy I finally went through this! Man, the pics on IG don't show off how nice the trunk is. I LOVE the carpet/vinyl/polished alumi or plexi edge look you used, so nice. It looks like your skill level went up from the start of this thread, love seeing that, very cool. Can't wait to see what you have in your head for round two of the crazy custom DRC mount. 

+1 for Popsicle/Tongue Depressors *#NoMoreResin*


----------



## JayinMI

I really want to reinvestigate putting my display for my DRC in the rear view mirrow like I had it before. I may get everything worked out and then see if radarmirror.com can do some magic for me. 

I don't necessarily feel like my skills have improved as much as my budget. lol I never really had the money to do some of the cool stuff. This was actually a pretty cost-effective redo, I already had a big scrap piece of 1/8" acrylic, and I learned that using welding rod is a great simple way to simulate polished aluminum. So, I have maybe a 1/2 sheet of 1/2" and a 1/2 sheet of 3/4 and a few yards of vinyl into it. I was pretty happy with the outcome.

The next things will be to redo my tablet dash, reinstall the modded DRC (Thanks, BTW, I got them!) and spend some time tuning. 

I'll probably be down in NC in Spring if Jason has a meet. 

Thanks for compliments!

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Realized I never got any "done" pics up. I worked pretty hard to get everything ready for Finals with the intent of competing in the triple point IASCA event. But the car fought me every step of the way. Decided to do brakes...was out in my driveway til midnight on the Wednesday before I left beating the rotors with a sledge hammer. Friday night, I found out why my tablet wasn't working properly -- bad OTG Y cable. Which, of course, noone sells locally. So I needed to make one, and I had a hell of a time getting one made that worked...which took up the time I was planning to use to tune. SMH. So, I got it together enough for the drive, and went as a spectator instead.

Finally painted the parts of my accent piece.







Got the LEDs in



Then I made an acrylic disc that my friend Rick cut a vinyl sticker for.



I got my Y cable built and my Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 back in.



Wrapped my speaker pods (for the 2nd time) dyed them and the a pillars to match, and made acrylic trim rings to hide the screw heads.





And headed to Finals. I think Scott (Babs) was the only one who got a demo. lol

Jay


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## JayinMI

Well, it looks like I'll need to redo the center badge. About a week ago, I left The Sound Advantage to go back to my previous job. The owner of TSA has elected not to replace me, and is going to kill off the car audio department.

I've also started looking for a new (well, used or CPO) car.

Jay


----------



## Babs

You ditching this car!?!? Oh noes!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Coppertone

Sorry to hear this, but why the need for another vehicle ?


----------



## JayinMI

If you rode in it, you'd understand. lol

Something under the car (Pretty sure it's suspension related) clunks, the brakes squeak (I just did pads and rotors to solve this problem, yet it persists), and it has 137,000 miles on it. 

I'm already going to take a hit on it (about $4500 upside down on it) but I can dump a bunch of money into it to fix what's wrong with it (and still be upside down in it) or I can take the hit anyway and put the money towards something nicer.

I gave up my Genesis Coupe and got this because I needed something my table saw would fit in. I don't need that anymore (Shop that I'm at has it's own) and my GF's dad has an '03 Sierra 2500HD Diesel crew cab short box I can borrow if I need to move something that won't fit in the car)

And I just got a nearly $1200/mo raise...so I can afford to upgrade.

I'm looking to keep it around $31k or less, and I've found several cars I'm interested it. But I'm willing to wait for something, so I'm in no big hurry (I always say that, lol) and I can continue paying it down while I look. If I pay the car off sooner, maybe I'll look at something like an M235i, but right now I'm eyeing 228i's or 135i's. The big thing that makes me want a 2 series is I don't have to put the key fob in the dash. I miss prox key from when I had the Genesis, and want to get back to having something like that. I also think the 2 is a nicer looking car.

Ideally, I'd like an Estoril Blue, with black leather interior, Manual trans, M Sport pkg, with under 30k miles and CPO 228i RWD. I might consider the paddle shift 8 speed auto, and maybe white instead of blue if everything else is what I want, but that's about it. Don't need Harman Kardon (since I'll replace it), might like the Nav so I don't have to change the HU but not necessary.

Second choice is a Lemans Blue/black leather M Sport pkg 135i with a manual trans.
Jay


----------



## Coppertone

Congrats on the raise and good luck with the car hunt.


----------



## JayinMI

Coppertone said:


> Sorry to hear this, but why the need for another vehicle ?


Sorry for what? I'm not upset. I will make a lot more money, I can deal with it. lol

Also, a New GTI Sport has entered the race for my next vehicle. lol

Jay


----------



## Coppertone

Lol, you are all over with your choices of cars which makes for an interesting read. When I was saying about sorry, I was referring to the fact that your car was giving you woes.


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

Something about the Kia brand of car left me wondering.My son and I test drove a Forte then a Civic ,he went with the Honda.Anyways have fun with your decision.


----------



## Black Rain

Jay, Its nice to see that are finally able to finish up the Rio. The amp rack and a-pillar look stellar.


----------



## Babs

JayinMI said:


> If you rode in it, you'd understand. lol
> 
> Something under the car (Pretty sure it's suspension related) clunks, the brakes squeak (I just did pads and rotors to solve this problem, yet it persists), and it has 137,000 miles on it.
> 
> I'm already going to take a hit on it (about $4500 upside down on it) but I can dump a bunch of money into it to fix what's wrong with it (and still be upside down in it) or I can take the hit anyway and put the money towards something nicer.
> 
> I gave up my Genesis Coupe and got this because I needed something my table saw would fit in. I don't need that anymore (Shop that I'm at has it's own) and my GF's dad has an '03 Sierra 2500HD Diesel crew cab short box I can borrow if I need to move something that won't fit in the car)
> 
> And I just got a nearly $1200/mo raise...so I can afford to upgrade.
> 
> I'm looking to keep it around $31k or less, and I've found several cars I'm interested it. But I'm willing to wait for something, so I'm in no big hurry (I always say that, lol) and I can continue paying it down while I look. If I pay the car off sooner, maybe I'll look at something like an M235i, but right now I'm eyeing 228i's or 135i's. The big thing that makes me want a 2 series is I don't have to put the key fob in the dash. I miss prox key from when I had the Genesis, and want to get back to having something like that. I also think the 2 is a nicer looking car.
> 
> Ideally, I'd like an Estoril Blue, with black leather interior, Manual trans, M Sport pkg, with under 30k miles and CPO 228i RWD. I might consider the paddle shift 8 speed auto, and maybe white instead of blue if everything else is what I want, but that's about it. Don't need Harman Kardon (since I'll replace it), might like the Nav so I don't have to change the HU but not necessary.
> 
> Second choice is a Lemans Blue/black leather M Sport pkg 135i with a manual trans.
> Jay


I get that.. My Civ' has 90k or so miles and it's time for some suspension love, I might have mentioned.. Probably just springs or shocks or something. Motor's strong enough but I suspect just some general maintenance to do.. New clutch, tranny fluid, etc etc. New brakes. Usuals at just under 100k. I also wonder what's coming, being a newbie at owning one of these little honda's. And cosmetics.. Eeek.. door weather stripping/seals or whatever it's called, head lights look like steaming poop. Has honda paint disease. But by golly she's sounding good. LOL!


----------



## JayinMI

The Kia has been a great car, don't get me wrong. Equal to any Honda I've ever worked on. This was my second Korean car, and I was considering a 3rd (Hyundai Tuscon) but my commute is longer now, and I've been contemplating German cars. The maintenance and repairs is higher, but the cars are more solidly put together and quieter overall.

My car choices are mostly German and under $30k. 

I did coilovers and brakes, and I'm having issues with both, or at least the brakes. I can't for the life of me figure out what the clunking noise is (I'm almost thinking something fell down into the quarter panel during one of the iterations of my Install) but for the last year or so I've just chalked it up to the suspension. I still have all the stock stuff, so I may swap it back and see if that solves anything. If I could get rid of the noises, I'd probably keep it for a while longer and pay down some other bills.

Jay


----------



## Zippy

Normally most car maintenance plans don't list shocks and struts. It's about 70-80K miles where those need replaced. I let mine in my RAV4 go till 120k. After getting them swapped it went from handling like a boat to handling like a 1-2 year old vehicle again. 

Jay,

If you're looking at a new vehicle in that price range you could join the group of us with a .... BRZ. <- link


----------



## JayinMI

I could. And I have. I dig those cars.

I imported these coilovers from Korea a few years ago, they may just be worn out. I get that. I just don't know if it's worth putting the money into the car to bring it back up to stock condition. The rear calipers may just need grease on the caliper pins, I just don't want to mess with it anymore.

Maybe maintenance is the wrong word. It's just typically more expensive to maintain German cars than asian cars, and the dealers are usually d*cks about aftermarket equipment, but still.

I'm not locked into anything, and I may just be looking at cars because I sort of have money "burning a hole in my pocket." lol

I've only ever kept one car til it was paid off (97 Neon, I had for 8 years) the rest are usually gone well before 100k. I'm at 138k now. 

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

So, in the last couple of months, the Rio hit 151k miles, needed strut mounts, ball joints and stuff and then finally it started devouring oil (3 qts in 1.5 mos). So, today, I fixed it.



Replaced it with a CPO 2015 Mazda 6 i Touring.

Jay


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## diy.phil

Very nice!! :thumbsup: Congrats Jay!!


----------



## bertholomey

Mazda did such an excellent job with the design of those - great looking car! Probably a bit more comfy for the drives to NC Congrats Jay!


----------



## JayinMI

Thanks, guys!

And Jason, even though I won't make it this weekend, I won't lie. That was considered when making the decision. lol

I may go IB in this one. The friggin' trunk is HUGE! 

Jay


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## Babs

Jay that is nice!! Too bad you won't make it. And having done it, yes my vote is make that trunk one big enclosure. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JayinMI

I was going to sell off my old gear, and get new stuff for this car....but everything I want is so expensive! lol

Guess I need to start a FS thread soon.

Jay


----------

