# Just out of sheer curiosity....



## enigma (Jul 5, 2008)

Anyone have any positive experience with a pro audio 12" midbass with a horn setup? Had some ideas and was curious.


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## funkalicious (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Start here: SpeakerWorks/USD Audio Install Gallery. Then do a search on this site for: 2003 S-10 Pro Audio Blowthrough. In short, "Yes." I run them (JBL 2206H) and love 'em. If you like your midbass to smack you around, do it !


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Hey, that's my truck! ^^^ 

I just completed my second install using them. Here's my build log:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...y/102176-2003-s-10-pro-audio-blowthrough.html

The first install (page 1) used 2204H; my current install (starts around page 5 IIRC) uses 2206H. They are in a lot of regards the same driver, with the 2204 capable of playing a bit higher into the midrange if you need that. The 2206 can take a bit more power, but I will never come close to approaching power limits on either of them. As it sits now, they are each getting about 150w and it is painful.  

I run mine ported, tuned around 50hz and in about 1.5cf net. If you are wanting to run 12" midbass with horns in a two-way, I can't tell you how that sounds. If you have room/processing for a dedicated midrange, that's what I do (2118H) and I think it works out very well in my setup. I run the 2206 like most guys would run an 8" midbass in a 3-way: from 60-280hz. I will say this- there's nothing like it. I've never heard or felt impact in a vehicle like I have in my truck, and that's across the frequency spectrum, not just the bottom end.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*




enigma said:


> Anyone have any positive experience with a pro audio 12" midbass with a horn setup? Had some ideas and was curious.


The most famous horn car of all time used horns up front and 12" midbasses in the quarter panel.
I crunched the numbers on it once, and it's a heckuva of an option. Basically your compression drivers have a lot of output potential, and there are tons of subwoofers that can get loud too. But there aren't a lot of solutions that can generate a lot of clean SPL in the three octaves between 125hz and 1khz. The octave from 125hz to 250hz is particularly difficult.


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## TheScottishBear (Feb 3, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

I run these in my door with my full size ES horns. I'm pretty happy with the output.
Eminence Beta 12LTA twin cone speaker. The Eminence Beta 12LTA is a 12" 8 ohm twin cone speaker. Beta-12LTA is a 225 watt RMS 12" twin-cone woofer.
It's more full range than a true midbass though. 60hz HP /24db slope.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

how do you guy fit a 12" in a door? lots of glassing?


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## TheScottishBear (Feb 3, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Yeah; lots of glassing. Need to replace the door panels. Staple holes are from a previous build.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

You sir, are not ****ing around.


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## TheScottishBear (Feb 3, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*



Patrick Bateman said:


> You sir, are not ****ing around.


Hey, this is serious business. hehe Yeah, It's a 20 year old Malibu so I'm not holding back. I wanted to do a 15" but as you can see a 12" is really all it can accommodate. I let them play their full range...all the way to 8k. With the horns and 3 18" IB I finally have the dynamics I've been looking for.


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## funkalicious (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Scottish Bear: Dem sum big ballz, bro. Props!


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Cutting a blowthrough in my truck for mine almost seems tame compared to those panels!  How do they do with rattles, etc?


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Wait, you play the mids up to 8khz?

Wonder how that works..


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Think you could hear them if they did?



mikey7182 said:


> Cutting a blowthrough in my truck for mine almost seems tame compared to those panels!  How do they do with rattles, etc?


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*



TheScottishBear said:


> Yeah; lots of glassing. Need to replace the door panels. Staple holes are from a previous build.


looks awesome but I fear you will have tons of panel vibrations and noise.


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## plcrides (Mar 21, 2014)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

thats just something you don't see everyday now is it ? i would love to sit inside when its done.thats awesome man.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*



thehatedguy said:


> Think you could hear them if they did?


Valid point  Although I am anal, and muted everything but my 2206, then everything but my subs to make sure I didn't have any. I even got outside the truck to make sure nothing rattled outside either.  I would just think the doors are so much more prone to vibration. I was fortunate to be able to completely decouple everything from the vehicle.


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## nadcicle (Aug 21, 2013)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Have a teamate running the Beyma 12P80Fe's in his doors with ES mini ultras. Zed Leviathan putting in work on the front 2 channels and bridged the other 4 channels on the mid's. I'm sure he won't mind me posting this for him.













































































































And a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6-ZbeRKbdQ&feature=youtu.be


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

Nice fabrication! In the description on the video, it says 'I must have blown the passenger horn..." and you/he mentioned the bass knob in the video. What are you using for processing and what are your xover points on the horns and 12s?


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## TheScottishBear (Feb 3, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*

To answer the panel vibration question. There is very little. The door card has 3 layers of fiberglass cloth and matte. That is covered by some lightweight mlv tiles from pe and that is covered with carpet. The pod is made out of several layers of chop matte and kitty hair. The baffles are 2 1/4" MDF with around 2.5lbs of nhmc surrounding them. In between the door card and the pod there is a decoupling layer of neoprene. I may not be a master fabricator but I can build a strong panel. 
I do have to do a little more reinforcement which I will get to this summer. Those door panels have been in the car for about six months. I won't lie the fullranges needed some burn in time. But I am pretty happy with how it sits. I don't want anyone to get the impression that this is an sq system. It's just built for dynamics and volume. To edzyy the 12" full range have no crossover point save the 24db/60hz. I'm not sure whether you were genuinely confused or just being antagonistic. In any case I provided a link to the drivers in an earlier post. 
It is true that at the volume I listen to it any vibrations get drowned out. Lol my rear deck is giving me the fits but I will tackle that in a couple weeks.


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## nadcicle (Aug 21, 2013)

mikey7182 said:


> Nice fabrication! In the description on the video, it says 'I must have blown the passenger horn..." and you/he mentioned the bass knob in the video. What are you using for processing and what are your xover points on the horns and 12s?


None of those comments were mine, but the mention on bass knob was to show that all bass was turned off from his 18" custom dss magnetar on a crescendo 5500. As far as crossovers he's using a clarion cx702 or whatever the dd model is. For playing at lower volumes he crosses the horns @1k and the mids up to 1k. When having fun and going that loud he crossed the horns around 2k and mids up to 2k or so. He has some other processors he will be installing soon, but that clarion is having some issues with excess noise he's addressing right now. We know it's the radio as we've testing it to direct power and noise is still there. He is pretty good at blowing horns as he demos like a mad man. 



Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*



nadcicle said:


> Have a teamate running the Beyma 12P80Fe's in his doors with ES mini ultras. Zed Leviathan putting in work on the front 2 channels and bridged the other 4 channels on the mid's. I'm sure he won't mind me posting this for him.
> 
> And a video
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6-ZbeRKbdQ&feature=youtu.be


That video


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*




mikey7182 said:


> Valid point  Although I am anal, and muted everything but my 2206, then everything but my subs to make sure I didn't have any. I even got outside the truck to make sure nothing rattled outside either.  I would just think the doors are so much more prone to vibration. I was fortunate to be able to completely decouple everything from the vehicle.


Actually, it's the opposite!

I noticed this on my current project, where I'm using dual 3" midranges. Due to the low SD, my new project needs a lot of excursion. And they're capable of it, but that excursion generates a lot of vibration.

But if you go the opposite way - like these people did - *there's less vibration.* Basically you generate more SPL with less displacement, and less displacement translates into less vibration.

Neat


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

nadcicle said:


> None of those comments were mine, but the mention on bass knob was to show that all bass was turned off from his 18" custom dss magnetar on a crescendo 5500. As far as crossovers he's using a clarion cx702 or whatever the dd model is. For playing at lower volumes he crosses the horns @1k and the mids up to 1k. When having fun and going that loud he crossed the horns around 2k and mids up to 2k or so. He has some other processors he will be installing soon, but that clarion is having some issues with excess noise he's addressing right now. We know it's the radio as we've testing it to direct power and noise is still there. He is pretty good at blowing horns as he demos like a mad man.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Is he burning out the voice coils or blowing up the diaphragms?
There's a couple of things that can be done to address that.
But it depends on how they're dying.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Just out of shear curiosity....*



Patrick Bateman said:


> Actually, it's the opposite!
> 
> I noticed this on my current project, where I'm using dual 3" midranges. Due to the low SD, my new project needs a lot of excursion. And they're capable of it, but that excursion generates a lot of vibration.
> 
> ...


That's a curious point... I'd never thought of that.  My 2206 hardly move considering the absolute visceral impact they have, which has always been cool to watch/feel. Your logic makes sense of that.


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## nadcicle (Aug 21, 2013)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Is he burning out the voice coils or blowing up the diaphragms?
> There's a couple of things that can be done to address that.
> But it depends on how they're dying.


I believe he's burning out the voice coils, but No damage can be seen on them at all to verify when he takes them out is what he says.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

nadcicle said:


> I believe he's burning out the voice coils, but No damage can be seen on them at all to verify when he takes them out is what he says.



On a compression driver diaphragm when they burn it is more like a fuse where the wire just burns in a very tiny spot so it doesnt look black and charred like a sUbwoofer voice coil. 

Other failure is the lead wire from terminal to voice coil and if it is failing there it is a manufacturing defect that is being exposed by high excursion. 

Need a loupe or magnifying glass and inspect closely.

What driver and what horn is it? 

Eric


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## nadcicle (Aug 21, 2013)

Eric Stevens said:


> On a compression driver diaphragm when they burn it is more like a fuse where the wire just burns in a very tiny spot so it doesnt look black and charred like a sUbwoofer voice coil.
> 
> Other failure is the lead wire from terminal to voice coil and if it is failing there it is a manufacturing defect that is being exposed by high excursion.
> 
> ...


They are your old ID mini ultra models. My eyes definitely couldn't see it, but my assumption tells me that it'd be the high excursion that you speak of. He likes to play super loud at 1k frequency and I'm sure the slope isn't very forgiving that he's playing at. I'll have to ask but I'd assume it's 12db.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The Ultra and PRO are still supported and I have replacement diaphragms available .

If burnt they would have a small brown spot at the location where the wire fused some where on the windings of the voice coil.

The dipahragm has a flat lead from terminal to voice coil and if it failed you would see a crack in it with black from arcing.

Also inspect for adhesive failure by gently tugging on the voice coil former all the way around.

Eric


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## nadcicle (Aug 21, 2013)

Ok, so I got the settings from him. Most recently there have been 2 different settings. 1 was [email protected] and the other was [email protected] He believes that the reason that they are blowing is cause his Clarion cz702 is putting out background noise no matter what. We hooked it up directly to a battery and it still put out noise. It almost sounds as if it associated with the fan that is built in to the unit.

As for the replacement diaphragms I believe he has been getting some from parts-express and going through them whenever they blow. He plays at max volume quite frequently and for long periods of time. Would getting the diaphragms from you have any benefits vs the ones offered at PE? Not price, but maybe the coil winding material or quality? 

He also mentioned that when doing the 24db slope it was at his leviathan vs the head unit and when he did the 12db it was from the head unit.


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