# Midrange Suggestions



## Loudsounds1 (Jan 27, 2012)

I am looking for suggestions for a small midrange driver. I have a pair of Hiquphon OWII tweeters and Peerless HDS 6.5's. I am looking to add 3-4 inch mids for a 3-way active setup which with be powered by a Zapco ST-6x SQ (100x6 RMS @ 4 ohms). All things being equal I'd prefer to go smaller since they will be in the kickpanels and space is limited in my Camaro. My budget is $300 or less for the pair. 

Right now I am leaning towards the Dynaudio Esotan MF 171 due to their high power handling and Dynaudio reputation, but I haven't really read any first-hand reviews. I also like how they come with grills, unlike many of the home audio raw drivers.

One concern is if it makes sense to use a 4 ohm driver, since my other drivers are 8 ohm. Does it make sense to have double the power to the midrange only?


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## jesh4622 (Aug 31, 2016)

https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce-fan03071-3-neodymium-full-range-woofer-8-ohm--293-708

These are what I'm going with. Look at the top review. Hard to beat that. 
However. If you want to take some dollar bills and light them on fire, feel free to get a ScanSpeak 10f. 
I guess it depends on if you want to go with more of a hi-fi sound or fun-fi. 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-discovery-10f/4424g-4-midrange-4-ohm/


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## Loudsounds1 (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks Jesh. Those LaVoce drivers are intriguing, and the price is definitely right. They're rated at 30 watts RMS. I'm not sure what the Zapco amp puts out at 8 ohms, but I'm assuming at least 50 watts. I wonder how the LaVoce would handle that amount of power or potentially more.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Morel cc254wr


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## Ifixtheinternet (Jan 29, 2016)

Loudsounds1 said:


> Thanks Jesh. Those LaVoce drivers are intriguing, and the price is definitely right. They're rated at 30 watts RMS. I'm not sure what the Zapco amp puts out at 8 ohms, but I'm assuming at least 50 watts. I wonder how the LaVoce would handle that amount of power or potentially more.


The RMS rating is usually for full-range, at maximum clean volume. With the tweeters high passed, and after setting gains, they'd be unlikely to get more than 20-25 watts.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## jesh4622 (Aug 31, 2016)

Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about them handling the power. They're a well constructed Italian pro driver. With a bandpass crossover, I think even 3x RMS would only add to their impact.
I also quite like their dispersion. It's only 5 dB down at 5khz, 45° off-axis. 

That also means they give you extra flexibility in setting your cross over to the tweeter. It becomes realistic to use nearly any tweeter. Ribbons, AMT, are not outside the realm of possibility, nor are smaller Dayton ND tweeters. Without the need to cross over a tweeter below 3 kilohertz, you can use whatever you think will give you the best tonality, soundstage, or practical mounting location.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk


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## gavin28 (Feb 20, 2019)

Loudsounds1 said:


> Thanks Jesh. Those LaVoce drivers are intriguing, and the price is definitely right.


They sure are! Looked great until I saw the paper cone. Yes many OEM systems use paper cones but when I'm looking for an upgrade, it just seems like this LaVoce mid wouldn't be much of one.


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## jesh4622 (Aug 31, 2016)

There are many excellent drivers with paper cones. I don't think it's quite fair to assume the quality of a driver based on the cone material. 

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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Scan speak revelators and illuminator series have paper cones. And are some of the best mids out there. Should probably not assume things like that especially with a 4 post count. ?


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## gavin28 (Feb 20, 2019)

jesh4622 said:


> There are many excellent drivers with paper cones. I don't think it's quite fair to assume the quality of a driver based on the cone material.
> 
> Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk


Fair enough... I like cones that are inherently more stable in the automotive environment


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## gavin28 (Feb 20, 2019)

foreman said:


> Should probably not assume things like that especially with a 4 post count. ?


Should probably not assume that a 4 post count means no experience in car audio. Been in the R&D part of the industry likely longer than you've been alive.:laugh:


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## jesh4622 (Aug 31, 2016)

Gotcha. Well, a small mid like this needs only a very small amount of air space (pod) or even just mounted on your door card. I believe Patrick runs his speakers free-air? Any of those should keep it safe from moisture.
There are trade-offs going with other cone materials, as well. Poly comes will give up detail, and aluminum cones will introduce third order harmonic distortion.
It's also pretty rare to run into a completely paper cone. Most of the time, other materials are added into the pulp to help achieve the sonic properties that the engineers want, and coatings applied to reduce the impact of the operating environmental - like moisture. 

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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

gavin28 said:


> Should probably not assume that a 4 post count means no experience in car audio. Been in the R&D part of the industry likely longer than you've been alive.:laugh:


He’s not, he’s basing it off a sweeping statement that demonstrates a lack of knowledge regardless of your job and what it entails


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## gavin28 (Feb 20, 2019)

dumdum said:


> He’s not, he’s basing it off a sweeping statement that demonstrates a lack of knowledge regardless of your job and what it entails



And how many laser scanning vibrometer measurements of tweeters, midranges and woofers have you and your friend analyzed? 

Username checks out.


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## jesh4622 (Aug 31, 2016)

I don't think that last guy was trying to offend you. Anyways, have you tested anything noteworthy between 3 and 4 in?

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## Tom Westling (Feb 13, 2011)

I have both Scan Speak 10f's and Gladen Pro 80's in builds my boys and I have done. I picked up the Gladen's during a trip to Germany. They are very small and sound fantastic! The 10f's are great as well. 

I tried the Morel CDM 880's as part of an Elate 603 set and wanted to cross them lower than they like to go.


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## Ifixtheinternet (Jan 29, 2016)

gavin28 said:


> And how many laser scanning vibrometer measurements of tweeters, midranges and woofers have you and your friend analyzed?
> 
> 
> 
> Username checks out.


Probably none. 

How many posts have you made that were constructive or helpful?

You'd think with all that measuring and analyzing, you'd have suggested a good mid for the OP, that was sorta the point of the thread.

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## Loudsounds1 (Jan 27, 2012)

Yeah, let's stay on topic and keep it civil guys. So for now I've narrowed it down to a few options (until some other compelling option pops up):

Dynaudio Esotan MF 171 3 inch 
Pros - size, Dyn reputation, power handling, 4 ohm, style, included grill
Cons - price, lack of reviews/info

Lavoce FAN030.71 3 inch
Pros - size, price, potential value
Cons - lack of reviews, no grill, less rated power handling (although probably not an issue), possibly a lower tier of quality vs Fyn/Scan

Scanspeak Discovery 10f 4 inch
Pros - Lots of positive reviews
Cons - size, no grill, considerably cheaper than the Dyns, but still not cheap

Also looking at options from Seas, Morel, Peerless, Eton


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

gavin28 said:


> And how many laser scanning vibrometer measurements of tweeters, midranges and woofers have you and your friend analyzed?
> 
> Username checks out.


You're gonna be a favorite here, I can tell.


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## gavin28 (Feb 20, 2019)

jesh4622 said:


> I don't think that last guy was trying to offend you. Anyways, have you tested anything noteworthy between 3 and 4 in?
> 
> Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk


I no longer measure many off the shelf drivers because most of our drivers are custom designs. 

Back in the day, my favorite midrange was the Vifa MG10MD09-04. Vifa is long gone from the Videbaek factory and now it's 100% Scanspeak which itself has substantially changed since being acquired by Eastech HK.

The closest substitute I can find to the MG10MD09-04 is the Scanspeak Discovery 10F/4424G. I also like the Eton 4-212/C8/25.


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## gavin28 (Feb 20, 2019)

phroenips said:


> You're gonna be a favorite here, I can tell.


love the facetious comment! Couldn't have come up with a better one myself ... cheers


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

gavin28 said:


> Should probably not assume that a 4 post count means no experience in car audio. Been in the R&D part of the industry likely longer than you've been alive.


Idk, foreman's pretty dang old lol. Sorry chris 

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## jesh4622 (Aug 31, 2016)

Yeah I have seen measurements of the 10f and have been very impressed. Does your company make anything in that size range?

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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

For a tiny midrange in the 2.5" range I suggest the Morel ccw254 (or something like that mentioned above) on the cheap. The guy that suggested them sent them to me to do a test for the forum and then I sold them for him as part of the deal. They do lack a little in output but they sound great. A little laid back in sonic timbre for my tastes but a lot of people are into that type of sound.

For a 2.5" that can't be topped in its size class the Audiofrog gb25 is the clear winner. Cross them at 300hz and dump the power on them because they have 4mm of Klippel verified LINEAR coil travel. They're $400 a pair retail but you can find them for sale gently used on here for $300 or a little less even if you're patient. And they come with a ton of parts to make life a lot easier on the installer.

Out of your top choices I'd do the 10f if you can fit it simply because it's been proven to be a great performer time and time again on this forum. And was also put on the Klippel to verify that it is a great performer if memory serves. But who knows, that LaVoce could end up being a new forum boner. I'm waiting for a trusted member that's been here a while to test a pair.


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## Loudsounds1 (Jan 27, 2012)

Those Audiofrog drivers are great I'm sure, but a little out of my price range unless I find them used. Another option I came across is the Hybrid Audio U3. Anyone have experience with them and how they might compare to the SS 10f?


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Haha thanks Nick. That guy has nothing credible to say in my book. But whatever. Lol
I would look at the morel as the price point is probably perfect. I will say this, I have yet to hear the audio frog 2.5 in an install and did not like it. Rather than try 2 or 3 different drivers, save the money and do it once. You won't be sorry with the frogs. 





SkizeR said:


> Idk, foreman's pretty dang old lol. Sorry chris
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

foreman said:


> Haha thanks Nick. That guy has nothing credible to say in my book. But whatever. Lol
> I would look at the morel as the price point is probably perfect. I will say this, I have yet to hear the audio frog 2.5 in an install and did not like it. Rather than try 2 or 3 different drivers, save the money and do it once. You won't be sorry with the frogs.


Buy once cry once. And yeah I actually thought the Morels sounded SLIGHTLY better than the gb25 for reference level listening. Personal preference and nothing more. They were just a more laid back and smooth sounding driver where the gb25 is a more forward sounding driver. The gb25 just seems to do a lot of other things better while still sounding great.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Loudsounds1 said:


> Those Audiofrog drivers are great I'm sure, but a little out of my price range unless I find them used. Another option I came across is the Hybrid Audio U3. Anyone have experience with them and how they might compare to the SS 10f?


they dont compare. the 10f's sound much better imo


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

foreman said:


> Haha thanks Nick. That guy has nothing credible to say in my book. But whatever. Lol
> I would look at the morel as the price point is probably perfect. I will say this, I have yet to hear the audio frog 2.5 in an install and did not like it. Rather than try 2 or 3 different drivers, save the money and do it once. You won't be sorry with the frogs.


well, to be fair we have no idea who that is.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Buy once cry once. And yeah I actually thought the Morels sounded SLIGHTLY better than the gb25 for reference level listening. Personal preference and nothing more. They were just a more laid back and smooth sounding driver where the gb25 is a more forward sounding driver. The gb25 just seems to do a lot of other things better while still sounding great.


It's a shame that it sold quickly. I would have grabbed them to do an OmniMic comparison between my GB25's, SB65's, CCWR254's, 12mu's, and 10F's. 5F's would be fun too.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

U can find second hand Hybrid Audio L3/L3SE for good money...


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