# Help Me Setup My Expensive Equipment



## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

I purchased a set of Focal 165KRX2's & a Zapco C2k 2.5X from a user on here. Now I need to make sure I get it setup correctly, so I have a few questions.

- Should I be using a capacitor with a 400W amplifier? (being installed in a 1988 truck)


- Does it matter where in the flow path the fuse is mounted? (closer or farther from the amp)


- Should I upgrade my stock battery ground(s)? There is a pigtail that comes off the battery and is bolted directly to the inside of the fender, is this what supplies ground to the chassis because it would be a huge bottleneck at 8-10 gauge! (I will be using 1/0-gauge amp wire)


- Where should I mount my tweets? I have been playing with two locations, I see many people use their door panels (see circle in photo). However from sound reinforcement gigs I was always taught that for best performance use tweeters slightly above ear level, like on the rear column panel above the seat belt pivot point (see circle in photo). On the downside I will not have as good highs with my doors open if I am listening outside the truck:










- This is where I want to mount my amplifier, cross-overs, capacitor and fuse (if the fuse does not have to be under the hood close to the battery). However the rear cab walls aren't THAT thick, so I can't use long bolts. I guess the best I can do is use the widest bolts I can?










- I need to run my amp wire through my firewall somehow, I found this unused grommet next to my steering column I can puncture a hole through:










On the inside you can see it to the left of the column (inside the circle), I planned on running the 1/0-gauge wire through and to the center of the dash. Then bundled with the RCA cable directly down the center of the cab to the rear:


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

-I would not use the capacitor
-You want the fuse as close as possible to the battery.
-Upgrade the factory grounds to 1/0 since that is what you will be running.


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## crispin (May 23, 2011)

Also you want some separation between the power wire and the RCA's - it is not recommended to run them together.

x2 you do not need a cap.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

crispin said:


> Also you want some separation between the power wire and the RCA's - it is not recommended to run them together.


Interference? I will be using HQ cables with thick shielding; Knukonceptz eKs RCA Kable & Kolossus Fleks Power Kable. How far apart should they be are we talking inches or feet?


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

It's usually easiest to just run them on opposite sides of the vehicle.

As long as they're not touching you should be fine, give yourself a few inches to be safe.


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## crispin (May 23, 2011)

I have always ran then on different sides of the car myself, however I heard that 6 inches apart is a safe distance.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Wattser93 said:


> It's usually easiest to just run them on opposite sides of the vehicle.


Only reason I am doing it this way is because it is a matter of a $50 6.5ft RCA cable becoming a $100+ double the length cable, also I don't want to stress my side panels under the door with a 1/0-gauge cable; I don't think it will fit.




crispin said:


> I have always ran then on different sides of the car myself, however I heard that 6 inches apart is a safe distance.


I will run them on opposite edges of the transmission hump on the floor panel.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

1/0 wire is major overkill for 400 watts. You would save a lot of money using 4 gauge oxygen free copper wire. Fuse the power wire within 18 inches of the battery.


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

x3 - Capacitor not required, thou invest your money on a Deep Cycle Battery (Kinetic, XS Power, Deka, Odyssey etc). 
Run the In Line Fuse within 12" - 18" from the Battery Power out to the C2K. If you intend on adding a secondary amp, purchase Distribution Block [1/0 In, (2) 4 Gauge Out].


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

If you run them on opposite sides of the tranny hump in the center of the truck you'll be fine.

If the side panels in yours are anything like mine, it'll give the panel a bit of hump in the middle but that's it. If you can run it all under the carpet and it doesn't show, go for it. I've always ran power and RCAs under the panels on the sides because it's been the easiest way to do it for me.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

trumpet said:


> 1/0 wire is major overkill for 400 watts. You would save a lot of money using 4 gauge oxygen free copper wire.


Saving myself the time and setting it up for the future 18" woofers.




robert_wrath said:


> x3 - Capacitor not required, thou invest your money on a Deep Cycle Battery (Kinetic, XS Power, Deka, Odyssey etc).


Deep cycle before a high output alternator? I thought a deep cycle battery had a loss of cranking amps for a gain of lifespan?


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Deep cycle before a high output alternator? I thought a deep cycle battery had a loss of cranking amps for a gain of lifespan?


IF you have a big budget, add Both the HO Alternator & Battery to complete the Big 3. Your electrical will run flawless.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I have to say it.....I don't know who told you that a possible mounting position for tweeters would be above the seat belt (as your circle indicates as a possible mounting position) but you need to NEVER talk to that person again as they obviously have no clue about car audio....lol. 

My advice would be the other spot you are looking at or the a-pillar. But please, stop the install immediately. You have some really nice equipment and need to spend some time learning and reading from the members of this forum before starting. If you can't or won't, then I would advise to sell the gear you have and go to walmart to replace it. 

I'm not trying to be mean, but high end equipment with a bad install won't sound much better than Walmart level equipment with a bad install, you just spend more. There is a ton of info on here about properly installing and the "search" button should be your new friend.

Good Luck!


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> I have to say it.....I don't know who told you that a possible mounting position for tweeters would be above the seat belt (as your circle indicates as a possible mounting position) but you need to NEVER talk to that person again as they obviously have no clue about car audio....lol.
> 
> My advice would be the other spot you are looking at or the a-pillar. But please, stop the install immediately. You have some really nice equipment and need to spend some time learning and reading from the members of this forum before starting.


I'm the one who theorized the B-pillar placement in contrast to the way a PA system is setup, not at ear level but all the way at the very top above your head.

A-pillar is an eyesore I will stick with the doors, and that is what I am TRYING to do here, I am in no rush and spending hundred$ on cabling as well (only the best).


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## Jonny Hotnuts (Mar 15, 2011)

> I'm the one who theorized the B-pillar placement in contrast to the way a PA system is setup, not at ear level but all the way at the very top above your head.


In sound reinforcement the tweets above is because the fz are directional and people in the back would not be able to hear them. 
Where the tweets are proposed would effectively make it sound like the high hat was coming from behind you and the vocals in front. 

Properly placed drivers in the limited CA environment is paramount to having it sound good. 

I suggest not trying to re-write the book and look at examples of other installs and understanding the logic in why the drivers were placed where they were. 

Good luck

~JH


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

High output alternator and a Kinetik battery to start.
Fuse next to battery.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Angrywhopper said:


> High output alternator and a Kinetik battery to start.
> Fuse next to battery.


For 400 watts?? Factory battery and alternator. When he puts his 18's in, he can upgrade.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*Not sure if it's worth doing my whole doors in Dynamat yet, the "whole door" seems to be more aimed toward blocking exterior noise and less direct speaker improvement. I need to hear my truck to make sure nothing is wrong with it (I mute my stereo and just listen sometimes) so with that being said should I at least use a speaker kit with my Focal's??

In this photo it looks like they used the circle they cut out on the back of the door; inside, is this a good idea?*


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I am in no rush and spending hundred$ on cabling as well (only the best).


Esoteric, cryogenic and pixie dust wires, are for the home audio nuts. Car audio nuts use coat hangars . Seriously though, use that money for something more worth while.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

sqnut said:


> Esoteric, cryogenic and pixie dust wires, are for the home audio nuts. Car audio nuts use coat hangars . Seriously though, use that money for something more worth while.


*This is what I had planned on using:*

Knukonceptz product detail for EKS KABLE 2 CHANNEL SILVER PLATED RCA 2M

Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 1/0 BLACK POWER/GROUND WIRE

Knukonceptz product detail for KASA KABLE SILVER PLATED 12 GAUGE SPEAKER WIRE


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> *This is what I had planned on using:*
> 
> Knukonceptz product detail for EKS KABLE 2 CHANNEL SILVER PLATED RCA 2M
> 
> ...


Those RCA cables are high IMO & I doubt you'll be able to hear a difference in the car environment.


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## The Wet 1 (Dec 4, 2011)

rockytophigh said:


> Those RCA cables are high IMO & I doubt you'll be able to hear a difference in the car environment.


Strongly agreed, spend your money elsewhere.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

You should spend some time in the installs forum looking at single cab trucks and their installs and information. 
If you spent the money on KRX's you should plan to spend some money on deadening and dampening too. If you don't you're just wasting some very nice equipment. 

Everyone was brand new once, I still consider myself a novice too...but there is some outstanding info here if you search and read. You really need to hold off on the install and read...a LOT. If you just throw your stuff in and crank it up you're in for some serious disappointment.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

rockytophigh said:


> Those RCA cables are high IMO & I doubt you'll be able to hear a difference in the car environment.





The Wet 1 said:


> Strongly agreed, spend your money elsewhere.


*What about this one lol still overkill? ($20 cheaper)*

Knukonceptz product detail for NEW MKS SILVER PLATED 2M RCA CABLE


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> You should spend some time in the installs forum looking at single cab trucks and their installs and information.
> If you spent the money on KRX's you should plan to spend some money on deadening and dampening too. If you don't you're just wasting some very nice equipment.
> 
> Everyone was brand new once, I still consider myself a novice too...but there is some outstanding info here if you search and read. You really need to hold off on the install and read...a LOT. If you just throw your stuff in and crank it up you're in for some serious disappointment.


I've heard this before on here, I am really in no rush and trying to do as much research as possible. Learning WHY you do or do not recommend certain things is what helps, I can never find exactly what I am looking for with the forum search. 

When you say sound dampening do you really think the entire door is necessary??


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

That's a stout driver in a flimsy old door. Absolutely I think it's necessary as well as sealing all the holes on the inner door skin and decoupling the driver from the door itself.

You'll read it on here everywhere...install is everything. It's true. Pay attention to the details now and you'll be much happier in the end.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> That's a stout driver in a flimsy old door. Absolutely I think it's necessary as well as sealing all the holes on the inner door skin and decoupling the driver from the door itself.


*Old truck doors are solid as a rock lol. Oh I see seal off the door to make it like a non-ported enclosure? I would say doing the whole door speaks for itself on sealing all the skin holes (Dynamat would cover them)?

This guy did the back of the exterior panel panes, but my door panels are not as open as his to do this...*









*Here are MY door panels, much less room to get your hands inside. I would just have to make sure I don't Dynamat over my decompression flaps (bottom right corner):*









*I could at least fit a square behind the speaker itself to act as a deflex panel:*










*Lastly as you said, decoupling. Had to do some research never heard of the term before, this guy used: driver>ensolite>ring 1>ensolite>ring 2>ensolite>door panel. I was going to see how 1 ring sounds or possibly two thinner things, seems to act like a shock absorber. Now can I use Dynamat between the rings or do I have to use Ensolite?*


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

The KRX2 manual has lots of great info on where to install your drivers. Please read it... 

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

rockytophigh said:


> Those RCA cables are high IMO & I doubt you'll be able to hear a difference in the car environment.





The Wet 1 said:


> Strongly agreed, spend your money elsewhere.


*Luckily I was looking through my cable duffel bag and found an 8ft Monster RCA cable. I know the brand Monster is highly overrated among home media enthusiasts but they should work great in this purpose right?*










*Thick enough shielding to resist any interference I may encounter right?*










*The cable says "Monster Standard - THX i100 - THX Certified - Shielded Audio Interconnect Cable With Dual Balanced Connectors and Duraflex Protective Jacket" there is even a signal path flow direction indicated on the cable??*


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Yup use em since you got em.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*What about when it comes to connecting the power/speaker wires? Should I use end connectors or just fan the wires out and screw them down?*










*I can always use these 1/0-gauge ring connectors for the power, and the 12-gauge spade terminal connectors for the speakers?*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*Turns out the amp came with an RCA cable that I HAVE to use since it only has Symlink inputs, but the shielding on this cable does not look of high quality especially the little pigtails coming out the end with no shielding?*










*Having a look at my tweeters I see the wires are soldered on, but I don't think these wires are going to be long enough to reach my cross-overs. Instead of "patching" two wires together to make the reach I thought it would be cleaner to solder my new wire directly on, but I'm afraid of heating it up... this wasn't cheap.*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*Does anyone recommend using the angled raisers? I was going to mount them flush in the door originally in one of the three circled locations but now I'm not sure what to do? Personally I like the cones they tuck down into a corner that they wouldn't of worked in if mounted flush, they are also high enough up the door not to interfere with a large passenger (knocking it with their knee). Thoughts? *


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> *Does anyone recommend using the angled raisers? I was going to mount them flush in the door originally in one of the three circled locations but now I'm not sure what to do? Personally I like the cones they tuck down into a corner that they wouldn't of worked in if mounted flush, they are also high enough up the door not to interfere with a large passenger (knocking it with their knee). Thoughts? *


To me the best part about this hobby is trying new things. Some work great and some fail.
Thats what your going to have to do with your tweets to see what sounds best.
I've had mine all over the front of my car. you can use double sided tape or velcro for a temp install untill you find the spot that works best for you.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

Those Symbilink cables are balanced, meaning they have a return line that results in completely nullifying any noise. You don't need to worry about that little part that isn't shielded. The tweeter speaker wires can be spliced without compromising the signal. Use solder and heat shrink if you want the cleanest look, but there's no reason to not use a good crimp connection.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

thomasluke said:


> To me the best part about this hobby is trying new things. Some work great and some fail.
> Thats what your going to have to do with your tweets to see what sounds best.
> I've had mine all over the front of my car. you can use double sided tape or velcro for a temp install untill you find the spot that works best for you.


Good advice, I think that is what I am going to do then!



trumpet said:


> Those Symbilink cables are balanced, meaning they have a return line that results in completely nullifying any noise. You don't need to worry about that little part that isn't shielded. The tweeter speaker wires can be spliced without compromising the signal. Use solder and heat shrink if you want the cleanest look, but there's no reason to not use a good crimp connection.


But the RCA end of the cable is bottle-necked down to a non-balanced connection right? I thought you needed something like a 3 conductor XLR to be a balanced channel?

*Do you recommend soldering the terminal ends for the amp end of the speaker wires or just crimping? OR no terminal ends at all just sandwiched wire between the screw plate and the square washer under each screw head?*


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> But the RCA end of the cable is bottle-necked down to a non-balanced connection right? I thought you needed something like a 3 conductor XLR to be a balanced channel?


Zapco - Symbilink Cables



> *Do you recommend soldering the terminal ends for the amp end of the speaker wires or just crimping? OR no terminal ends at all just sandwiched wire between the screw plate and the square washer under each screw head?*


Depending on the amp I prefer to crimp on forked terminals. You can crimp and solder them if you want, but if they're well crimped they won't come apart.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

trumpet said:


> Zapco - Symbilink Cables
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the amp I prefer to crimp on forked terminals. You can crimp and solder them if you want, but if they're well crimped they won't come apart.


Thanks I read up on it, I still don't understand how a 4 wire 2 channel cable can be a balanced connection but I will take their word for it. 

I'm not concerned about them coming apart, I was going to solder for a better contact between wire strands and the terminal which is why I almost skipped the terminals all together with. My buddy cut his wire ends really neat and then fanned them out between the square washers, he also added some sort of contact grease on the bottom side of the square washers where they came in contact with the wire strands (just a dab).


*I had to drive all over the place just to find the right size terminals made at good quality. CROOKS! I had to pay $1.95 EACH for the stupid things by the time he was done ringing them up my total came to over $60 for 16 terminals... I'm like dude that's less than $32 without tax and he goes alright $40. I just turned around and hes like ok ok $30 so I took them anyway for $30 because I needed them and was already that deep in my travels for the stupid things: *









*Went with the sturdy ones instead of the forked slip on terminals, sure it takes longer to put them on I don't care they are solid as a rock:*
















*^ I told him I needed them for 12 gauge wire, he said all we have is 10 gauge but they will work fine. I got home and the receipt says 8 gauge! The whole reason I went looking is because KnuKoncepts.com did not have 12 gauge terminals. *


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

If you just wanna throw money away send it my way.
Sonicelectronix.com is your friend.

I just made another order there today myself....


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> Sonicelectronix.com is your friend.
> 
> I just made another order there today myself....


Durr, I forgot about checking them for terminals wow lol


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*This is what my door looks like, 2 measly mounting holes for speaker screws:*









*With the factory baffle and an aftermarket speaker:*









*Use the factory baffle as a template and cut one out of MDF?*









*The red arrow points at the darker brown ring, I notice most people have spacer(s) on their baffles. Why? Is this just to provide magnet clearance from the window components or does this improve sound performance? *









*Do I have the right idea here?*


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## ballisticuffs (Oct 5, 2009)

I've been reading through this thread and am a bit confused. It seems like you have some knowledge of sound, but I think you're already jumping ahead with certain questions. Maybe you are a musician of some kind or have spent some time inside of a studio? I think it's just your knowledge of basic electrical theory and sound theory that are a bit lacking. For instance, (and I know "soundstage" may not be your general goal) the reason you put the tweeter in front of you, along with all the other speakers, is simple: When you go to a concert, where is the band in relation to yourself? You keep them far from your ears because you want the air pressure from each driver (highs mids lows) to have room to disperse and coalesce. You dont want high pitched sounds of a guitar to come from above your head and then when the player moves through the scale to sound like the guitar is comming from below.

Please dont let me offend you, but I was definitely where you were once. If I knew then what I know now there would have been alot less holes in my cars. If you want to buy the best equipment (cables, speakers) but are complaining about $1.95 for a crimp connection, it sounds confusing. You have a lot of questions, and the answers you're getting are not descript enough to answer all of the "WHYS" and "HOWS" that go into a good solid install. It would be SWEET if you could get a part time job at an install shop (or one that will let you hang around) and get free learning. 

My other 2 cents, because it bothers me if I let this go:
1) you don't "fan out" your speaker wires. the thickness should be maintained
2) Crimped connections are NOT enough, solder them. Don't cut corners. The crimp gives you a nice clean looking connection to work with, but the solder fills in air gaps in the exposed wire so that you don't get CORROSION (one of the main differences between home and car....anything, really.) If someone disagrees, remember, you've got a 1988 (american?) truck. It's no longer, and probably never was, sealed like a brand new european luxury car. You WILL get water in it.
3) Watch some youtube videos, typing is long and tedious and exact meaning gets lost in posts. Not to mention, you have no idea who exactly the guy is your getting this information from. There are just as many poor installers here as there are competent ones. Ask the same question to multiple installers, and watch how many different answers you get.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

ballisticuffs said:


> My other 2 cents, because it bothers me if I let this go:
> 1) you don't "fan out" your speaker wires. the thickness should be maintained


The current travels along the skin of the strands, and it doesn't matter if they're bunched up tightly or spread out evenly. If they're all contacting the metal terminal and the fastener is holding tightly that's adequate.



> 2) Crimped connections are NOT enough, solder them.


It depends on the type of job. I don't have time to solder every connection, and I use crimp connections whether it's a car audio job, a land mobile radio installation, or anything 12V. If you believe wire connections at an amp are going to be exposed to enough moisture to corrode than why bother installing an amplifier at all? Obviously that's going to be destroyed because you can't seal that off from moisture.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

ballisticuffs said:


> I've been reading through this thread and am a bit confused. It seems like you have some knowledge of sound, but I think you're already jumping ahead with certain questions. Maybe you are a musician of some kind or have spent some time inside of a studio? I think it's just your knowledge of basic electrical theory and sound theory that are a bit lacking. For instance, (and I know "soundstage" may not be your general goal) the reason you put the tweeter in front of you, along with all the other speakers, is simple: When you go to a concert, where is the band in relation to yourself? You keep them far from your ears because you want the air pressure from each driver (highs mids lows) to have room to disperse and coalesce. You dont want high pitched sounds of a guitar to come from above your head and then when the player moves through the scale to sound like the guitar is comming from below.
> 
> Please dont let me offend you, but I was definitely where you were once. If I knew then what I know now there would have been alot less holes in my cars. If you want to buy the best equipment (cables, speakers) but are complaining about $1.95 for a crimp connection, it sounds confusing. You have a lot of questions, and the answers you're getting are not descript enough to answer all of the "WHYS" and "HOWS" that go into a good solid install. It would be SWEET if you could get a part time job at an install shop (or one that will let you hang around) and get free learning.
> 
> ...


Yup, I have done interning for sound reinforcement and used to own my own small mobile audio / DJ business. I was complaining about the price of the crimp because your not getting what you pay for, with my expensive equipment I got what I payed for, there's a difference between being cheap and overpaying for something. 

1) What if the plate your crimping/screwing to is twice as wide as the wire itself? 
2) I was pretty much planning on soldering my wires right to the drivers with the exception of the tweeters. So you think I will have water in my doors getting to the rear of my speakers?!
3) I shall continue on Youtube than lol


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*As someone mentioned about doing a "smart install" I went to the hardware store I work at and bought four "security screws" for the amp. They only had two types these pin holes or the star with the hole in the middle which is too common, I've seen much better styles online but they are expensive. *










*I hope they are enough to hold the Zapco C2K 2.5x against the back of my cab wall under the rear window in a vertical position. I got the widest ones I could get to fit in the holes on the amp chassis, did not want to go too long though and crank them through the outer wall on the cab! Maybe I will use some mini lock washers to keep them snug.*


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

What did you do with the door speakers? If you make baffles from mdf make sure you paint them or seal them somehow. The moisture in your doors will ruin them. I am local to you and I might be able to find some time to help if you want to meet up when it's warmer.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

goodstuff said:


> What did you do with the door speakers? If you make baffles from mdf make sure you paint them or seal them somehow. The moisture in your doors will ruin them. I am local to you and I might be able to find some time to help if you want to meet up when it's warmer.


I haven't made the baffles yet, but the moisture is scaring me. What about my KRX2's!? What do I do to protect my speakers? Is there such thing as High Density Fiberboard? What if I made the baffle out of steel? My buddie works at a machine shop.

I planned on taking a piece of sheet metal and cutting it from a template to the size of the door and welding it on, leaving a hole to access the inside and window/lock motors (I will Dynamat the hole but can tear and replace for access). That would be better than Dynamat right? 

Hit me up when it's warm


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## Dubstep (Apr 7, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> *Not sure if it's worth doing my whole doors in Dynamat yet, the "whole door" seems to be more aimed toward blocking exterior noise and less direct speaker improvement. I need to hear my truck to make sure nothing is wrong with it (I mute my stereo and just listen sometimes) so with that being said should I at least use a speaker kit with my Focal's??
> 
> In this photo it looks like they used the circle they cut out on the back of the door; inside, is this a good idea?*


Do the entire interior, EVERYTHING (roof,doors,floorboards,FIREWALL,rear of the cab etc)in sound deadening, you thank us later. It has always made a huge difference in all my rides. I drive my car so I want to hear MORE of that expensive sound Ive invested in, and less tire,wind,road noise. I covered BOTH insides of each of my doors, 2 layers each, and 1 final layer covering all the holes that the door panel usually covers. Yea its a lot of extra work, but if you dont do it, and your system is installed, youll question it constantly until you do it and realize for yourself, what a great job you did!

good luck.

Brad


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Dubstep said:


> Do the entire interior, EVERYTHING (roof,doors,floorboards,FIREWALL,rear of the cab etc)in sound deadening, you thank us later. It has always made a huge difference in all my rides. I drive my car so I want to hear MORE of that expensive sound Ive invested in, and less tire,wind,road noise. I covered BOTH insides of each of my doors, 2 layers each, and 1 final layer covering all the holes that the door panel usually covers. Yea its a lot of extra work, but if you dont do it, and your system is installed, youll question it constantly until you do it and realize for yourself, what a great job you did!
> 
> good luck.
> 
> Brad


You don't need to do this^.
Go here: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com


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## bahlgren342 (Dec 31, 2009)

goodstuff said:


> You don't need to do this^.
> Go here: Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information


Agreed, people tend to not know the difference between resonance dampeners and actual 'sound proofing' so to say.


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## SQ Audi (Dec 21, 2010)

If you have questions specific to Focal, Nick Wingate is on here sometimes. I can text him and let him know to check out this thread. He may have some great ideas for your install.

As for dampening the whole car and the "showdown" site, I doubt that the Showdown people used a 25yr old truck as their test bed. I would tend to use as much as you can afford to use to make sure that the truck is not only rattle free, but, also can ward off moisture. 

I would lay down one layer of dampening product on every metal surface in your truck's cabin, and try to keep out any gaps. Then cover that with mass loaded vinyl to seal it in. Then replace your window seals too. Your cabin will be must quieter, alot more rigid and you will enjoy your music much more. 

As for using expensive equipment. It was spoken before, they sound only as good as your install. I have heard a brand new BMW, that used all stock speakers, that was treated with D-Mat, and MLV, then stock speakers placed back in, using an MS-8 and a center channel that was added, using JBL amps and it was one of the nicest setups I have ever had the ability to listen to. Ask Gary Biggs (the guy that built it) if he thinks install is everything.

Good luck with your install. You have excellent equipment, don't cheapen it by cutting corners.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Yeah if you could get me in contact with Nick that would be great.

I will sound proof / dampen as a second stage, for now I will just install with baffles and new window seals. Still don't know if I'm better off machining steel baffles??


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## SQ Audi (Dec 21, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Yeah if you could get me in contact with Nick that would be great.
> 
> I will sound proof / dampen as a second stage, for now I will just install with baffles and new window seals. Still don't know if I'm better off machining steel baffles??


I will email him today. Hopefully he will get on here this evening.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

SQ Stang said:


> As for dampening the whole car and the "showdown" site, I doubt that the Showdown people used a 25yr old truck as their test bed. I would tend to use as much as you can afford to use to make sure that the truck is not only rattle free, but, also can ward off moisture.


Well if you had even looked at the site, you would notice it's just one guy, and he uses science as his "test bed."


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Don't over complicate things man. Just go with the tried and true methods. 
Get some aluminum sheets or something similar and make panels to cover the holes in your doors to seal them. Deaden everything inside and out. Mount your drivers the right way and enjoy it. 
You don't need to reinvent the wheel here...others have done the homework just follow their lead. 
All the info you want is here...you just gotta read up on it.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> Get some aluminum sheets or something similar and make panels to cover the holes in your doors to seal them.


I wonder if my doors are made out of aluminum or steel. If they are not made out of aluminum I'm not sure you can weld aluminum to steel. Also the baffle plate, I don't necessarily see any reason why they are made out of wood besides the ability to easily cut and shape wood; steel would be stronger.


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## SQ Audi (Dec 21, 2010)

goodstuff said:


> Well if you had even looked at the site, you would notice it's just one guy, and he uses science as his "test bed."


You took one point as my whole point. His truck was made in an era that didn't have ANY deadener installed into a car. Now even the cheapest car will have some dampener put in. Therefore his "science" would be more applicable. Unlike the majority of this site's members, I have witnessed the evolution of car audio and the prepping that goes with it. With his truck, a full coverage would be more beneficial due to being able to seal the cabin, but in my car, I am just adding mlv due to the amount of deadener in my car stock.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

My truck is so ****in loud I can hear every single noise, my buddie farted standing outside the door with my window up one time and it was clear as day inside the cab to everyone.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Again...you're over complication things. Make the panels out of aluminum, deaden them then screw them to the door. 
It's not rocket science and there's no need to weld anything to the door. 
You want to retain access to the inner area anyway for any needed repairs or maintenance. 
Yes, MDF baffles are easy to cut. They're also easy to seal up and install and they WORK. 
All you're doing is making your own life difficult. 
You need some materials and a day in the garage and you're done.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I'm worried about water getting in my doors I have an old truck even with new seals it's not 100% waterproof... those baffle cups degrade sound quality by limiting the enclosure/door volume correct?? What if I took a baffle cup and cut it in half so that the air can move out of it into the doors space but it will also have a roof with sides for the water to hit and run down the sides and hit the floor rather than into my speakers?? *


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*The cab wall deff shakes when I shut my door(s). I hope the vertical mounting doesn't bite me in the A$$*










*Since the amp is not flush mounted either there is a cooling channel/space that runs through the underside:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

I'm only keeping these doors temporarily so I need a temporary install since expensive dynamat is non-transferable. I sprayed 1 can in each door that's $12 total, not much of a sound deadening but it lowered the pitch; knocked out some of the higher sounds and the doors sound deeper when shut now as well. 










I have some spray glue, since the undercoat claims paintable it should be glueable. I will hit the junkyard and get some sound deadner out of like a Cadillac headliner/trunk/doors or something then cut it and glue to the inside of my doors ($10-15 for both doors). To seal the large holes in my doors I will use some water sealed MDF (new doors will be aluminum plates)


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*These are the blocking baffles (minus the speaker baffles; I still have the old speakers in). It's approximately 5lbs of water sealed wood and screws...plus my new speakers are about 5lbs a piece so I'm looking at adding 10lbs to each door without even including Dynamat. The doors slam harder now that they are heavier so I will absolutely be adding springs to dampen the door slam:*










*Worried about water I came up with a solution that works great, a piece of vacuum hose (tried the hardware store, plumbing store, automotive store, then I tried a shop vac until I found the perfect indoor vacuum hose. This will guide the water from the window channel away from the speakers and into the water channel:*


























*Of course I also added the traditional assurance of foam rain guards:*


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Very creative, I like it!


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

niceguy said:


> Very creative, I like it!


The seal design is so poor on my truck I literally HAVE TO do this or it will destroy speakers


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

thomasluke said:


> To me the best part about this hobby is trying new things. Some work great and some fail.
> Thats what your going to have to do with your tweets to see what sounds best.
> I've had mine all over the front of my car. you can use double sided tape or velcro for a temp install untill you find the spot that works best for you.


If you think tweeters in the a-pillars are going to be an eyesore, this is going to be ten times worse. not to mention they are in harms way. easy to catch on you or clothing or something and pull off the door and possibly damage. check out the tweeter mounted a-pillar pics around here. they can be made to look fantastic, and are out of harms way.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

kizz said:


> If you think tweeters in the a-pillars are going to be an eyesore, this is going to be ten times worse. not to mention they are in harms way. easy to catch on you or clothing or something and pull off the door and possibly damage. check out the tweeter mounted a-pillar pics around here. they can be made to look fantastic, and are out of harms way.


The drivers side is fine, if anything the passengers side might be in harms way without the dash corner hiding it. If they are attached to the door well enough I don't think I should have to worry?


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

well, if it were me i wouldn't want them there. if you like them there that is what matters. but if you are trying to get the best sq possible...which i assume you are with such nice gear, give them a listen while they are on the a-pillars. they them off axis and on. your stage will be much better and the path length distance will improve. being in the door they will be so close to you, and you will hear all tweeter and little midbass/midrange. just some food for thought for you.


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

It's like watching a train wreck with really nice equipment involved. 

Come on bud. You get out of it, what you put in to it.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Kellyo77 said:


> It's like watching a train wreck with really nice equipment involved.
> 
> Come on bud. You get out of it, what you put in to it.


What?


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Kellyo77 said:


> It's like watching a train wreck with really nice equipment involved.
> 
> Come on bud. You get out of it, what you put in to it.


Seriously dude you wana give me your 2 cents or some advice instead of an insult?


*I found a Mercedes build where they reworked the pillar to accept tweeter pods with a screen but why did they displace the tweeter so half of it fires at the inside of the pillar wall??*


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

After a recent experience, I would say to hell with mdf. I took apart my install to fix a rattle and even though it was painted and sealed, it broke off like cheap cardboard. 
I got some nice birch ply from woodcraft in Woburn. I should be ready to reattach the speakers tonight so I will left you know how it goes.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

This guy is planning ahead for 18's in a single cab truck. If you want sq then dynamat the whole inside. If you want SQL then spot treat all the areas you get noise. If your just wanting spl then run 1/0 to everything, upgrade the alt/batt, buy decent signal/speaker cable, and mock up to find out where your tweets sound best. Bottom line this isn't rocket science and the guys telling you to sell your gear and go to Walmart should leave this thread.

Sent From Your Moms Closet Using TapaTalk Pro


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

oh yeah I also meant to say you should seal the gaps between the wood panels covering the door holes with silicone so they are air tight. Try to make it one sealed panel.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

goodstuff said:


> oh yeah I also meant to say you should seal the gaps between the wood panels covering the door holes with silicone so they are air tight. Try to make it one sealed panel.


Wouldn't it be easier to just cover everything with Dynamat, over the small holes and wood plates?


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> Wouldn't it be easier to just cover everything with Dynamat, over the small holes and wood plates?


Do the silicone first then do this...
What I did, but wasn't sure you wanted to take it that far...

Mineral filled vinyl-copolymer - damper


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Use that instead of Dynamat? I eventually want to replace these with metal plates since edges cracked etc but I figured I would run them until I upgraded from manual to power doors since I will have to disassemble the door anyway (I'll get bored this winter). I would have to throw away my matting though and re-do it


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> Use that instead of Dynamat? I eventually want to replace these with metal plates since edges cracked etc but I figured I would run them until I upgraded from manual to power doors since I will have to disassemble the door anyway (I'll get bored this winter). I would have to throw away my matting though and re-do it


Yes Instead of it.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*So, I first made up a set of flat baffle adapters out of 1/2" plywood thinking that was as far as I was going to go:*


















*Then I decided that angled would be worth the hassle, so here is my attempt so far. I am limited on leg room so I can't angle them enough to line up your ear that's facing the door, should I angle them so (ex) the passenger side is aimed at the drivers ear and same goes for the drivers speaker aimed at the passengers ear? I've heard some people aim them both for the dome light etc. *










*Now someone please guide me I have a few concerns here, I think the angle looks funny with the reverse taper (original flat baffle is not as wide so the pod will have a smaller base than the top). I would be stretching fleece and painting on epoxy, yada yada. I see some design flaws; I'm not sure if the base opening has to be larger than the top both holes are 6.5+ a tad and changing the speaker angle might cause magnet clearance issues with the bottom hole. Another corner I ran into is how to mount this thing onto the door once it has been fiberglassed over since the face of the bottom baffle will be completely covered...I could drill holes but that would be ugly:*










*Only other option I can think of is to remake the bottom baffles larger to cover the entire indented area:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I got some more gear in the mail today, KnuKonceptz.com 10G Ultra Flex Kord (OFC) along with some pants, 1/0G ring terminals and a negative battery terminal. Now I can 1/0G ground both my frame and body:*










*I was forced to bundle things in this way underneath the B-pillar paneling in my single cab truck, this is the two OFC speaker outputs from my amp (400W) the remote wire and amp input (Neutrik Speakon). Will this cause interference?*


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Try it and see. I'm upgrading my frame to neg battery soon with some spare 1/0. Waiting to see how yours comes out.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I plan on getting some 1/0G marine battery terminal caps for the frame and body terminals:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*The lead on my Focal tweeters are very short, the speaker wire I wired my vehicle in is the blue. I'm thinking there are two ways I can go...for a clean install I figured solder the blue cable right to the tweeter itself but that kind of scares me it's part of a really expensive set. The other way would be just splicing them together, I guess since the tips of the smaller wires are pre-soldered (stiff) I might as well just stick them into the large blue wires and solder them up then heat shrink them.*


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## Jonreedy (Oct 19, 2012)

Great stuff


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks

*If it's not a problem then look at more of my nightmare, I don't think a ground over a positive cable will do anything:*










*The ground under speaker wires may be an issue?*










*Here's a good one...speaker wires crossing under the positive lead I would THINK this would be an issue:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*Got a few questions on setting up my Zapco amp...*










*2- If #16 is set to FULL then this range selection won't even be used right?

5- Would this be right in bridged mode the way I have it crossed out?

11- Should I use the subsonic filter with my external Focal crossovers? I'm trying to output a clean untouched/unequalized signal to my crossovers right?

12- Do I use 1-4v or 4-16v? For now I am using it connected to my head unit via a SymbiLink-to-RCA cable so I assume most head units pre-amp output is 4v or less?

16- Set to FULL will bypass all internal EQ right? I assume "full-range" clean signal?

20- Would I be setting it to unbalanced? I know SymbiLink is balanced but the opposite end of the cable is RCA's...*


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> *Got a few questions on setting up my Zapco amp...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which amp is this?


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*5-* Why? I thought if I'm using it in bridged mode only the FRONT crossover is being used? I thought l/r sum mono is for woofers?

*20-* Yes I'm using the actual Symbilink on the amp side, RCAs on the deck side of the cable but RCA is only 2 wires per channel where balanced is 3 wires per channel?

It's the C2K-2.5X amplifier, thanks for answering my questions!


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> *5-* Why? I thought if I'm using it in bridged mode only the FRONT crossover is being used? I thought l/r sum mono is for woofers?
> 
> *20-* Yes I'm using the actual Symbilink on the amp side, RCAs on the deck side of the cable but RCA is only 2 wires per channel where balanced is 3 wires per channel?
> 
> It's the C2K-2.5X amplifier, thanks for answering my questions!


Running bridged doesn't have anything to do with the crossovers or I am missing something. You are summing 2 channels into 1 on each side so you have to set them the same way.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

crispin said:


> Also you want some separation between the power wire and the RCA's - it is not recommended to run them together.
> 
> x2 you do not need a cap.



Stop it. Just, stop. Really. There is nothing wrong with bundling RCAs and power cables.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

goodstuff said:


> Running bridged doesn't have anything to do with the crossovers or I am missing something. You are summing 2 channels into 1 on each side so you have to set them the same way.


*Oh okay I see what you mean, so if both #9 and #16 are both set to FULL (so I have full-range on both channels) why would I set #6 to l/r sum mono if #3 is 2ch Left?

My thought was set both #3 and #6 to 2ch left/right?*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*My Focal manual says to space them 20cm apart (just shy of 8") The thing that has me worried is the manual in box C (upper left) does not indicate mounting the tweeters anywhere in the kick; just the A-pillar, door, and dash. If this was followed then you could not get your 8" spacing however I think the 8" was for display purposes in a showcase:*










*You can see where I have my tweeter pod temporarily placed on my passenger kick, using one of the kick mounting screws but I will need to drill my own hole to aim the pods upward more. As it stands in the photo they are about 10" apart which is not all that far off I just need to bring the tweeter in a little over 2" *










*As well as my drivers side kick panel, I just need to get my 20cm and calculate my PLDs:*







[/IMG]


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I haven't read that manual but are you sure the 8" isn't the maximum distance they can be separated? Ideally you'd want them as close together but I'd still go with upper door or sail panel mounting before kick panel mounting, especially with those pods.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> I haven't read that manual but are you sure the 8" isn't the maximum distance they can be separated? Ideally you'd want them as close together but I'd still go with upper door or sail panel mounting before kick panel mounting, especially with those pods.


*Wouldn't that be further from the listener in those positions? I just don't get it; higher in the doors or sailed would just be MUCH further than the 8" which I re-read the tiny manual and all it says requarding this spacing is "we make different measure types on baffle plan of our speakers and crossovers in order to guarantee the best settings according to the placement of your loudspeakers (Fig. A) For a use on a display shelf, we recommend the crossover settings as follow: tweeter level at 0dB, woofer in Flat mode and filtering slope at 10dB/oct. for the kits that have this function. For installation in your vehicle, please refer to the remainder of this manual." *

*^ Never mentioned anything about measurements of spacing in the text ^*


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Focal is recommending the 8" based on using the passives, which you are doing. That said, playing with the polarity of the drivers can overcome most of the issues you'll run in to having them separated. 

Hmmm, now I want to read the manual to see what the "referr to the remainder of the manual" has to say.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> Focal is recommending the 8" based on using the passives, which you are doing. That said, playing with the polarity of the drivers can overcome most of the issues you'll run in to having them separated.
> 
> Hmmm, now I want to read the manual to see what the "referr to the remainder of the manual" has to say.


*Polarity? Switching the positive and negative?! 

I will show you what the rest of the manual says; not much!

To recap, this is what box D shows for mounting the mid-range...I am using location #2 (bottom of door)*









*This is all it says corresponding box D look at (D,2) it says see section "adjustment" page 7-8:*









*Here is the big whopping midrange/woofer adjustment section on page 7/8 which says nothing about location (D,2) or what to adjust it to corresponding to location (D,2): *









*As far as see what the "referr to the remainder of the manual" page 7/8 are the only adjustment pages which show the two images above, and the two below:*




















cajunner said:


> The problem that Focal is trying to prevent by recommending no more than 8" of distance from mid to tweet is to keep the crossover phase coherent, or preventing a hole in the sound that comes from lobing.
> 
> What you need to worry about is aesthetics, along with practical considerations in mounting your speakers. Tweeters on the floor will get kicked, and don't look nice down there in those bayonet pods. Put them up on the door above the mids for your first try, it's a good rule of thumb to try and keep within Focal's 8" guidelines when you're first starting out.
> 
> I like flush mounts with angle cups, but once you cut you're left with a hole if you want to move them, so know first that's where you want them. Obviously an old truck will have plenty of door panels in the junkyard, get some on the cheap and use them as test beds for your tweeter mounting experiments.


*Not too worried about them getting kicked it's not a work truck and the first person to kick my tweeter is going to get their ass kicked. 

So if I am to keep the 8" when starting out...then how do I put them higher on my doors on my first try? Literally the only place I can mount them within that guideline is on the kicker or lower on the doors; not where I wanted them in these pictures below:*

















*Luckily the baby blue door panels that came with my truck I already planned on swapping out because I swapped most my interior to grey already so they will be all hacked up trying different placements before I install my good grey panels!*


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Don't post too much, I'm running out of "_thanks_"  

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

cajunner said:


> do you see where the dash runs parallel to the door?
> 
> and where there is a groove in the door panel above the handle and below the edge of the dash?
> 
> ...


*Red circles? So flush as in no angled cups; flush like my door speakers? If I use this off-axis style you are recommending should I rotate the tweeters at all to take advantage of the wings/ears/tabs/wave guides? The red circles would be 15-16" from the door mid-range driver:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

cajunner said:


> the biggest advantage of using components, (some will argue this, haha) is that you can place the tweeter above the area where the legs block sound transmission.
> 
> Everything else, is secondary to this main concern.
> 
> ...


*Well technically the tweeters on the kick panels (in my truck) are out of the way of legs and further away from your ears then the door panels. 

Unfortunately my mids are low and blocked by legs, actually the kick panels are in a more open sight then the doors are!

Those pods are temporarily pointed, I have heard two completely different theories on here; some tell me to point both the tweeters on-axis at the drivers headrest/head...then leave my passengers mid flush in the door (off-axis) and point my drivers mid in the door up slightly to match the same degree of off-axis as the passengers mid is while flush. *


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I think the best thing to do in this case is to get everything up and running and try the tweeters in different locations and see which you like best.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> I think the best thing to do in this case is to get everything up and running and try the tweeters in different locations and see which you like best.


*Wish I knew where to start; on-axis or off-axis, then work on placement from there. 


Any recommendations at all out there on tweeter rotation? Here would be my drivers door with the tweeter rotated sideways to change those tabs/wave guides:*










*Then here is my passengers door with the tweeter installed the normal way, but being against the dash and using the dash (wood grain area) to reflect waves off I wasn't sure if there was any benefit in rotating them?*


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Have you actually listened to anything yet?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> *Wish I knew where to start; on-axis or off-axis, then work on placement from there. *


*

Seriously, just start listening. It won't take long to figure out what you like best. We can't say on or off axis is better simply because some locations are better on axis and some are better off axis. I like upper door off axis myself. You might lose a little detail on a soft dome but it'll keep the sound from pulling to the left.*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*Okay it is agreed I will get it up and running then play with tweeter locations and axis alignments which I have a few local acquaintances on this forum that might be able to help me with that once my mids are properly installed so let us focus on that.

So my mids should not be (at least for now) mounted on axis? Mount them flush in my doors BUT have the drivers door at least a little angled upward to compensate the extreme obvious angle/off-axis? I really wouldn't know how to measure exactly by how many degrees my passengers mid is off by to be able to match the drivers...
*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I'm going to try flush mids in the doors but they still have to be lifted 1.5" out of the door (might end up flush with the door panels). Then for the most part, on-axis tweeters with the left/pilot's tweeter slightly off-axis.*


*Flush pod:*










*Angled at the pilot's right ear, maybe face at best (just an insider tip I got so I'm going to give it a try):*










*Flush pod (passengers face):*










*Angled to the pilot's right ear:*










*Angled pod goes right by the passengers face; not at it:*










*I really don't have much depth to my dashboard so the kick panels make the most sense being able to get the greatest distance from my ears. I will install my tweeters and finish my door baffles by the end of this weekend, no more procrastinating! *


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

I will try the A-pillars and high in the door I made sure to leave enough wire, and right now I'm using the stock kick panel anchoring screw hole with a longer screw so no holes have been drilled yet. I eventually think moving the mids into the vented kick panel will be the solution and keeping the tweeters close in the kick panels. Then using the doors for future lows/mid-bass. 

The only thing I'm contemplating about is the flush mids in the doors, maybe doing a slight angle on the drivers side door but if they were in the _kick panels_ I would *not* do a slight angle on the drivers side since it would be _further away_. If I had a mid-bass in the door I don't think it would benefit even a slight angle since it's a lower frequency.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

johinsyly said:


> I would specifically do the necessary......
> -I would not use the capacitor
> -You want the combination as near as possible to energy.
> -Upgrade the maker factors to 1/0 since that is what you will be managing.


Okay?


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*This is what I am going to do for maximum tuck distance:*










*But for now, my door baffles are almost done just another coat of deck sealer. The tweeters are installed just waiting on these mid drivers! *


*Here is an update on my stereo I'm complete the wiring I just need to install my drivers, you can see how large my power cable is but it's more flexible than all the other smaller cables pictured:*










*The 0G terminals had to be modified to fit directly into my amp ("just because"):*










*I went with some 16G remote wire, a little bigger then needed but whatever:*



















*No equipment board/rack but I will craft one later down the road, I shouldn't have any ground loop problems with this amp but just in case it's mounted on rubber washer risers (I'm missing my rear window bezel; swapping to grey):*










*The string of blue cables are the amp output/crossover input, right tweeter and mid driver:*










*The input/output and remote wire are run under the passenger B-pillar panel:* 










*The amp input (Symbilink), remote wire, right tweeter and mid driver are run down the passenger side:*










*Drivers side carries the power cable, left tweeter and mid driver:*










*The 1/0G is a tight fit on the drivers side:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I'm back on flat/flush baffles, I had to stack two more rings to clear the magnet of the window track but they are going into the kick panels soon enough:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*The bottom 4 speaker screws hold the whole assembly to the door, then the top two hold everything together and the two side top screws are not long enough to reach the door because I wanted at least two security screws on there. I will use another 5 screws on the top wing to fasten to the door...another two security screws on the bottom of the wing. I bent the two wire tabs on the speakers carefully upward more, hopefully there is enough room for air flow with the rain guard:*


























*I went to the hardware store and got some 10AWG (I think stainless steel) terminals, I was able to just barley get every single strand of the positive in there, fluxed and soldered. The negative is a smaller terminal on the speaker so the wire size opening is smaller, I got the most I could inside and pushed the rest against the outside all the way around, fluxed and soldered everything inside and out so it still gets the same continuity with no bottlenecks:*


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## BlueOval (Nov 10, 2012)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> But the RCA end of the cable is bottle-necked down to a non-balanced connection right? I thought you needed something like a 3 conductor XLR to be a balanced channel?


Keeping unbalanced cables as short as possible helps to minimize RF interference, since it's not easily filtered out of an unbalanced signal since there is no reference as to what is noise and what is the audio signal. Without getting too technical, "balanced" simply means the 2 conductors carrying the signal are exposed EQUALLY to the interference, making it much easier to filter it out. Symbilink really IS a balanced 2 channel interconnect, much like a pair of XLR cables sharing a common shield, or a 5-pin DMX cable. Keep the RCA's as short as possible and the Symbilink cable only as long as you need it to be. I bet that old Dodge makes a ton of RF noise from the alternator and ignition system. Also, while it's not the end of the world to cross cables, running them in parallel is how noise is transfered from one to the other. I would instead, try to avoid OEM cabling in that old truck, especially ignition related noise. Modern vehicles with coil-on-plug ignition, don't really generate the kind of ignition and electrical noise that the old ones do. 

I would really love to know how you end up liking your components as I'm considering using them in my truck, I just hope the inherent problems associated with the vehicle it's being installed in, doesn't spoil it for you. As someone who has a studio-ish background, I'm sure you understand the importance of a sonically neutral enviroment to start with, so try to concentrate quite a bit on improving the acoustics of the vehicle at the same time you build the system, or you may turn it on when you're halfway through and be disgusted by what you hear, and not want to go any farther... 

I don't remember reading what H/U you're driving this system with...is it the one in the pictures?


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

I will be dropping that cable anyway soon for a SLDIN.BTL-F and netbook driven DAC sound card that has stereo XLR outputs. I will custom make a SLDIN.BTL-F-to-XLR cable or solder the SLDIN.BTL-F cable right into the sound card. Right now I am driving the system with a cheap Pioneer DEH-1800 with the EQ set to flat/natural...I do not want to invest in a HU because for the same price a netbook can be purchased and upgraded to SSD.

I will go back and sound deaden the environmental AFTER because of budget reasons, it is my daily driver there is no going back I WILL make this system sound good starting with my drivers all in the kick panels for the furthest distance since I have a steep windshield. As far as interference goes with cable crossing etc I will have to try my Zapco amp and see, I have been told this amp should isolate almost all noise.


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## BlueOval (Nov 10, 2012)

Whoa, slow down there. I never said a SymbiLink cable IS the same as an XLR, or that the 2 are electrically equal. I sure hope you've done some research to verify that they're compatible. It honestly may be just as effective to use a DAC with RCA outputs going directly into the converter. Otherwise, you could start getting into all kinds of voltage blocking, transformer coupling, ground lifting issues by just putting together a DIN to XLR Y-cable. Just make sure you've done your research first, or you really COULD ruin both pieces of equipment. And I'm definitely not the one to ask, I know very little of Zapco amps. If I did, I'd give you a hand


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

BlueOval said:


> ...by just putting together a DIN to XLR Y-cable.


That is not the case here, no XLR-Y.

I am talking about a 2-channel; 6 wire Symbilink connection (minus the others) which is the same as a 2-channel; 6 wire balanced soundcard output which is usually in an XLR terminal style.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*All fused correctly now:*










*Heat shrunk the terminals:*










*Installed....for now:*


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I do not have my tweeters in yet, this weekend but have been playing the mids on the way to work etc to begin the break-in period on low-med volume. It's hard to tell without being able to turn the volume up high but I did play with the bass on my HU and tried both "full" and "12dB/octave" it seems like the bass is smoother on 12dB/octave...if I set my mid to full isint that pretty much a cross over bypass? When I have my tweeters in it will be easier to tell which I like, one thing I am surprised how much X-Max the speaker has; that thing really moves at a low volume!*


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Stop worrying about break-in. That was COMPLETELY done about 10 seconds after you turned them on.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> Stop worrying about break-in. That was COMPLETELY done about 10 seconds after you turned them on.


Why does the manual say to run them in for a few weeks on medium volume?


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## BlueOval (Nov 10, 2012)

Lots of good speakers recommend an extensive break-in period, but it's not to keep from destroying them, it's typically so they'll actually meet or exceed their published specs. I'd continue breaking them in before you really start tuning, as their output and response characteristics can change during break-in. 

It sounds like the setting you're adjusting on your H/U is a low-pass for the line-out. In which case, once you connect your tweeters, you'll really be able to hear the difference, and NEED to leave it on full. Never ran a Pioneer H/U though so don't quote me, but it sounds like it's either a crossover slope adjustment, or a Q adjustment for the bass setting of the EQ. Running your H/U in full range, low-pass, high-pass, or mountain-pass will NEVER play full range through your mids since you have passive crossovers. But the low-pass side of your outboard x-over won't have any kind of subsonic filter. You should consider a high-pass setting from your H/U or on the amp (if it has it) somewhere down around the 100Hz range, to keep from damaging them, when your break-in period is over and you start turning it up. Obviously you'll need to tune and adjust it to match the response and limits of the midwoofer, without a sub though, be careful how low you go. Otherwise you might find the limit of that Xmax pretty quick.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

To minimize returns. Seriously.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BlueOval said:


> Lots of good speakers recommend an extensive break-in period, but it's not to keep from destroying them, it's typically so they'll actually meet or exceed their published specs. I'd continue breaking them in before you really start tuning, as their output and response characteristics can change during break-in.
> 
> It sounds like the setting you're adjusting on your H/U is a low-pass for the line-out. In which case, once you connect your tweeters, you'll really be able to hear the difference, and NEED to leave it on full. Never ran a Pioneer H/U though so don't quote me, but it sounds like it's either a crossover slope adjustment, or a Q adjustment for the bass setting of the EQ. Running your H/U in full range, low-pass, high-pass, or mountain-pass will NEVER play full range through your mids since you have passive crossovers. But the low-pass side of your outboard x-over won't have any kind of subsonic filter. You should consider a high-pass setting from your H/U or on the amp (if it has it) somewhere down around the 100Hz range, to keep from damaging them, when your break-in period is over and you start turning it up. Obviously you'll need to tune and adjust it to match the response and limits of the midwoofer, without a sub though, be careful how low you go. Otherwise you might find the limit of that Xmax pretty quick.


No, this was debunked YEARS ago.


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## BlueOval (Nov 10, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> No, this was debunked YEARS ago.


Maybe things have changed? Maybe it needs a few heat cycles in the voice coil? If Focal puts it in the manual, I'd do it...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Nothing has changed. Speaker manufacturers tell you to break it in for X amount of time for one reason, to give you time to get used to it. Period. Nothing in the specs changes enough for break-in to be of any benefit. There is a VERY long thread on here about it. Do a search, There's good info in there.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> To minimize returns. Seriously.


... and to let your ear adjust to what you're hearing - also to minimize returns  

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

*I turned it up a little bit and since my HU EQ is on FLAT, and gave the bass a few + I was surprised how some mid tones were deep and rich but the very lows you could tell the passive crossovers from Focal cut-off (also on the "flat" setting on the Focal crossover) *




BlueOval said:


> It sounds like the setting you're adjusting on your H/U is a low-pass for the line-out. In which case, once you connect your tweeters, you'll really be able to hear the difference, and NEED to leave it on full. Never ran a Pioneer H/U though so don't quote me, but it sounds like it's either a crossover slope adjustment, or a Q adjustment for the bass setting of the EQ. Running your H/U in full range, low-pass, high-pass, or mountain-pass will NEVER play full range through your mids since you have passive crossovers. But the low-pass side of your outboard x-over won't have any kind of subsonic filter. You should consider a high-pass setting from your H/U or on the amp (if it has it) somewhere down around the 100Hz range, to keep from damaging them, when your break-in period is over and you start turning it up. Obviously you'll need to tune and adjust it to match the response and limits of the midwoofer, without a sub though, be careful how low you go. Otherwise you might find the limit of that Xmax pretty quick.


*Not my HU, the external Focal crossover. The HU EQ is set to flat which I think is full? The thing is the only RCA pre-amp output is for rear speakers because when I fade all the way forward the audio fades out...I don't think it's a subwoofer out. My amp has a subsonic filter I was not sure if I should use it or not.... it says "sub filter" (#11)*


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## jasoncancio (Nov 17, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Nothing has changed. Speaker manufacturers tell you to break it in for X amount of time for one reason, to give you time to get used to it. Period. Nothing in the specs changes enough for break-in to be of any benefit. There is a VERY long thread on here about it. Do a search, There's good info in there.


Good info.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> *I turned it up a little bit and since my HU EQ is on FLAT, and gave the bass a few + I was surprised how some mid tones were deep and rich but the very lows you could tell the passive crossovers from Focal cut-off (also on the "flat" setting on the Focal crossover) *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please read the KRX2 manual, I don't think you know what the _"full"_ setting does on the external Focal passive Xover... It has nothing to do with the HP setting of the midrange. 

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> Please read the KRX2 manual, I don't think you know what the _"full"_ setting does on the external Focal passive Xover... It has nothing to do with the HP setting of the midrange.
> 
> Kelvin


Will you please help because my manual does not go into ANY detail or explanation it is pathetic. I got my tweeters up and running today and got to hear the whole system! WOW!

I toyed with the 2 settings adjustable from the outside of the external crossover housing; mid-driver "FLAT12dB/FULL" and tweeter "0dB/-3dB/-6dB" I found my tweeters are fine at 0dB even on-axis they are not too much (with I think a clean signal from my HU) the mid-driver I'm 50/50 between the FLAT/12dB Octave and the FULL...obviously on full I hear much more highs from them along with possibly lower frequencies but on flat/12 the range seems constricted but the mid-bass is very strong and deep and the cross over makes it very obvious where a subwoofer would pickup on very low frequencies but I am very curious if "FULL" is a cross over bypass??


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Ok, try this: 
- driver's side passive: "High" for the midrange and "-3dB " & "18dB" for the tweeter 
- passenger's side passive: "Flat" for the midrange setting and "0dB" & "18dB" for the tweeter (also try "12dB" for the tweeter setting and decide which you like best) 

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> Ok, try this:
> - driver's side passive: "High" for the midrange and "-3dB " & "18dB" for the tweeter
> - passenger's side passive: "Flat" for the midrange setting and "0dB" & "18dB" for the tweeter (also try "12dB" for the tweeter setting and decide which you like best)
> 
> Kelvin


I can see what your getting at with fading the tweeter to the passengers side more but they don't have a 12 & 18dB setting just 0-6

The midrange also does not have a "high" setting only full or flat. The 12dB I was talking about is part of the flat setting with a slash; FLAT/12dB OCTAVE --or-- FULL


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> I can see what your getting at with fading the tweeter to the passengers side more but they don't have a 12 & 18dB setting just 0-6
> 
> The midrange also does not have a "high" setting only full or flat. The 12dB I was talking about is part of the flat setting with a slash; FLAT/12dB OCTAVE --or-- FULL


You don't have another setting under the cover? Here's a pic of your passive unless they changed it: 









Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Yup that's the one, the internal settings are for the tweeter only if I read the manual correctly. One switch is for extreme treble or a linear response, the other is for 12 or 18dB Octave your right! 

When you say high for my drivers side mid do you mean unfiltered/full?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> Yup that's the one, the internal settings are for the tweeter only if I read the manual correctly. One switch is for extreme treble or a linear response, the other is for 12 or 18dB Octave your right!
> 
> When you say high for my drivers side mid do you mean unfiltered/full?


The "high" setting (connector UP) lets the driver play unfiltered. 

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> The "high" setting (connector UP) lets the driver play unfiltered.
> 
> Kelvin


So in theory one speaker would start to distort before the other if it's unfiltered right?

What is the 12 & 18 dB? Not the volume level right I thought that was the 0-6dB?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> So in theory one speaker would start to distort before the other if it's unfiltered right?
> 
> What is the 12 & 18 dB? Not the volume level right I thought that was the 0-6dB?


 I've only been talking about the passive Xover settings here - moving connectors up or down on the passive Xover. 
The passive isn't doing any HP on the midrange so it's not going to distort any sooner than the other side. 

What are you referring to here coz I don't understand what you're asking... 

Please do a search on "highpass", "bandpass", "lowpass" and "slope"... Seems like you're mixing things up

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

Yes external passive crossover adjustments, an unfiltered driver will distort before a filtered driver right? I thought the smaller range of frequencies allowed a speaker to be played louder? The passive does not do HP on the midrange but it does do LP in "flat mode" I thought? 

What I am confused about right now is why the tweeters have two separate dB leveling adjustments.... I know the 0-6 is volume but what is the 12 and 18 more volume settings or frequency slopes? Sorry this is so hard to interpret between us I will admit I made a bad investment here....

On the bright side though I do love the system! I have been cranking it up lately and you can feel the drums and symbols in your chest even with your ears blocked you can feel those frequencies that you could not before...I mean I have felt music before with subwoofers but it's a whole different part of the song/frequencies


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Having a LP or not on a driver has nothing to do with being able to play your driver louder - a HP does 
12dB-18dB is the tweeter HP slope 

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

At least half my theory is correct, I thank you again!

I will try 12 & 18 what threw me off is it wasn't labeled in different frequencies; it's in dB. The way I was reading the manual it sounded like there were TWO internal switch adjustment but I only see one for 12 & 18. I will research "slopes" this evening. 

When the CD is paused there is some slight noise, much more when the volume is cranked up with it paused. Not sure if that is a ground loop issue since my amp feet are mounted against my metal cab wall....until I build a mounting board I picked up some rubber fender washers I'm going to try on both between the amp and cab and amp and bottom of the screw head but it might still make its way through the side edges of the screw against the amp mounting holes.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

subwoofery said:


> Having a LP or not on a driver has nothing to do with being able to play your driver louder - a HP does
> 12dB-18dB is the tweeter HP slope
> 
> Kelvin


No, an LP on a large midrange driver should help it play louder cleanly since it won't be breaking up in the top end.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> No, an LP on a large midrange driver should help it play louder cleanly since it won't be breaking up in the top end.


I was just trying to keep it simple  

Kelvin


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> I was just trying to keep it simple
> 
> Kelvin


*Sounds more like complete opposite to me lol 

I kind of seem to like the mids on flat/filtered. I really like this system and how you can feel drums and symbols in your chest compared to the bass guitar in cheap systems...deff more live sounding! I do believe tweeters on-axis is the way to go it sounds much better than in the passengers seat but not over the top just crisp and clean; cuts through the mids only on highlighted notes so it sounds very live. I installed the grills today and screwed down the top tab/wing on the baffle:*










*I think some of my noise can be reduced by turning my gain down on the amp I'm afraid of pushing them any louder anyways because with my deck at half volume it's loud enough to scare me and the gain is already 1/2-3/4 on the amp.*


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

I think you need to search " gain settings" as well.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

thomasluke said:


> I think you need to search " gain settings" as well.


Turn the HU up to 80% then bring the amp gain up until it begins to distort or I get pre-clip amp warnings?


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm astounded that this thread is still going....and still going nowhere.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> I'm astounded that this thread is still going....and still going nowhere.


Thought i was the only one that noticed.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

As in what? What do you base your theory off? I bought equipment....posted a thread....installed the equipment and learnt a lot....sounds like it's going somewhere to me....would you like to add your 2 cents and make it go somewhere else? If you don't feel it went anywhere then this website as a community is a failure because you guys are suppose to help guide me!!!


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I tried...a year ago...in this thread.
I just read it for amusement now.
Carry on....


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> I tried...a year ago...in this thread.
> I just read it for amusement now.
> Carry on....


Like what? What did I not do?


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

thomasluke said:


> I think you need to search " gain settings" as well.


I turned my gain down 100% to the lowest setting and it still provides me with enough volume and reduced some noise, plus the Zapco manual says to set the gain all the way down if possible.


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Can't wait to hear your new set up!

.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

derickveliz said:


> Can't wait to hear your new set up!
> 
> .


I know same to yours! By the time you get back from vaca I'll be going to FL for a weekish so when I get back we got to make plans. 


On a side note to everyone after listening to it almost every day for a while now I'm noticing some huge flaws in the install that being the doors as a location. If you stick your head down between the seats over the transmission hump on the floor it sounds like night and day (the mids - tweeter pods are already angled towards drivers headrest). I will have to work on getting them angled into the kick panels this summer to get the most out of them for sure!


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Mr.Anonymous said:


> I know same to yours! By the time you get back from vaca I'll be going to FL for a weekish so when I get back we got to make plans.


I'm stuck down here in the tropics for another 2 days, the new-england Blizzard is not going to let us go back home this weekend.

I still have to re-install my new right tweeter.

D.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

derickveliz said:


> I'm stuck down here in the tropics for another 2 days, *the new-england Blizzard* is not going to let us go back home this weekend.
> 
> I still have to re-install my new right tweeter.
> 
> D.


Boo hoo. At least you don't have to shovel. Here take this:








No I kid. That stinks you can't come home. 
I should have time to plan the next meet during the BLIZZAHD,
I will get it posted soon.


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

goodstuff said:


> Boo hoo. At least you don't have to shovel.
> No I kid. That stinks you can't come home.
> I should have time to plan the next meet during the BLIZZAHD,
> I will get it posted soon.


I know, I called AA to change dates, and didn't charge me extra.

Yeah! looking forward for next meet!

D.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

At least this storm will bring good snow shoeing adventures for some contrast to FL, we should meet somewhere closer to me this time lol I really wish I had airbags it kinda sketches me out on the highway but whatever.


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## Mr.Anonymous (Jun 12, 2011)

The wooden infinite baffles are a bit thick and I heard they add to resonating of the doors which I think I have been experiencing. I read some people recommend plexiglass which can flex when needed, it's just more expensive and harder to work with....well I have some experience cutting plexuglass and I have this high quality piece from the front of a large projection TV which has more then enough for both doors! I will post pics of the updated blocking baffles in the near future.


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