# 2010 Fusion SQ Installation Thread



## BowDown

I figured I would start a progress thread for my custom stereo project. Little info:

*Car*:
-2010 Fusion Sport FWD w/Sony 12 Speaker Stereo (no navigation)

*Goal*:
-To fill in the freq curve gaps the stock stereo misses
-Bring the stage up in front of the driver
-Clean/Simple install to resemble a factory appearance

*Equipment*:
*Front*
-Alpine F1 SPX-Z18T 3-way X-overs
-Alpine F1 [Tweeter]
-Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer (Parts-Express.com:Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer | neo8pdr planar tweeter ribbon tweeter planar transducer) [Mid-range]
-Tang Band W5-1138SM 5-1/4" Neodymium Subwoofer (Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W5-1138SM 5-1/4" Neodymium Subwoofer | subwoofer 5-1/4" subwoofer neodynium subwoofer tangband tb speakers tangband-22008) [Midbass]

*Rear*
-_No Rear Fill_

*Subwoofer*
-IDQ12D4

*Amplifier*
-US Acoustics 2150 2x150 @ 4ohm RMS [Front Stage]
-US Acoustics 2075 1x240 @ 4ohm RMS [Sub] (I realize the sub w/present a 2ohm load in parallel, if I run into issues I will swap out the sub for the IDQ12D2)

*HU*
-Alpine CDA-9833 3way Crossover/Time Correction/EQ


*Installation Basics*:
-Alpine F1 Tweeter in stock location
-The Planar Mid-Range is going to be molded into the A-Pillar
-Midbass will be install in the stock front door midbass location
-Doors will be sound deadened
-Subwoofer will be installed in a cylinder shaped enclosure in the spare tire well sized so a full 18" Sport wheel/tire (spare) and be placed over top of the box as a speaker grill. 
-Trunk floor will be raised 4" to account for the added full spare height, along with speaker volume requirements.
-Amps to be installed under raised floor
-Access hole to be cut in stock carpet floor cover to expose the full spare w/sub inside
-Stock subs to be removed.


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## BowDown

Removed Stock Spare Mount:









Painted Bare Metal. I'm going to install studs there to fasten the new enclosure:


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## BowDown

Check out the box/amp rack construction!

*1st Coat of resin jelly:*

























*2nd coat:*

















Amp Rack:


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## BowDown

*Test fit of box/amps/spare:*



























Amp rack has studs that fasten down to stock trim mounting tabs.

Well be building a crossover tray off the front of the amp rack. Then using 1/2 plywood to create a top (carpeted) w/spare exposed.

Box needs to have a fiberglass bottom baffle constructed, and then carpeted.

It's great progress for only 5hrs work!


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## JediMentality

That sub enclosure looks awesome! Can't wait to see the progress.


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## BowDown

Thanks! I'm very happy with the way it came out. After some more glassing it'll be time to wrap it in automotive carpet. Figures the install I would be most proud to show off is going to be 95% hidden. Oh well . 

Reminds me, I need to pick up some more resin jelly during lunch today.


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## LegendJeff

wow now thats an organized introduction! good luck looks great so far


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## Notloudenuf

Bout time someone with a car like mine came on here. :thumbsup:

Subscribed


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## turbo5upra

Did you get permission to post my arm??? wtf!


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## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> Did you get permission to post my arm??? wtf!


Haha. Thought that was Sasquatch! 


Oh ya, Brian (turbo5upra) is helping on this install.


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## BowDown

Just ordered the cabinet/false floor carpet, enclosure foam dampening sheet, and some 4 conductor speaker wire!


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## IBcivic

very nice craftsmanship ... looking forward to seeing more


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## BowDown

Progress will be slow until black friday. I'm going to putz around with it a bit during lunch hours but with my house remodeling projects are taking up any free time. 

I'm setting aside black friday to finish up most of the fabrication work left.


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## bruther

Looks like it's going to be a great setup


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## BowDown

Small updates today. During my lunch hour I cut and routed out the planar midrange speaker rings!


























Still needs some sanding...


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## kota_sounds

holy huge mids!!!!!

lol install looks great


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## BowDown

Thanks. 

You're telling me. They are like 4" x 8" x 3/4" in the rings. Going to flush them into the pillars but there will be a bump out on each side. More install pics to come when I work on it tomorrow during lunch. 

Planars sound phenominal as mids! I had a buddy here running them in his scion. Crisp and clean!


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## rycka

perfect start


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## BowDown

More updates!

I temp installed my extra set of pillars in the car and marked where I thought I wanted them. Afterwards I noticed one of my marks was 3/8" lower than the other so I worked to square them up. At first I used the bandsaw to cut the trim panels... really wasn't needed. 3 passes with a sharp utility blade cut em like butter. Anyway, here's some pics of them tacked with hot glue. I'll get some pics of them mocked up in the car after work.


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## Peerless Guy

That is so cool. Thinking outside the box!


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## bruther

I dig the A pillars....Can't wait to see more.


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## gijoe

The construction looks great. The only concern I have is mixing those drivers with those passive crossovers, with all the work you're putting in I'm afraid the sound is going to be less than optimal.


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## BowDown

Well that's a valid concern. I have been selecting drivers that I deam compatible... But worst case the HU is 3-way active compatible. So I could sell the passives and swap to a 6ch or add a 4ch amp. I'm wiring the crossovers in the amp rack w/extra wire. 

Thanks for the complements. Its coming along nicely.


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## BowDown

I did a blind hot glue mockup outside the car... Turns out the rings are aimed off a bit. I broke the glue joints and will have adjusted pictures later today.

1st Mockup:


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## jemfr59

very good job!!!


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## BowDown

Aiming to get them wrapped in glass this weekend.


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## n_olympios

Subscribed. This looks very promising, good job so far.


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## BowDown

Test Fit #2!


































Much better angle to work with. Also less interference with the wiring and such behind the trim piece. Next up fiberglassing it home.


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## asc55

Wow!


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## titan 3

Subscribed! Great start!


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## newtitan

wow that is amazing routing skills on those planars

those are excellent mids by the way!!!! never even thought to mount them like that

well of course I dont have skill like that with my router either lol

great work


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## sydmonster

cool install, certainly not normal.
+1 on the going active for now route.


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## BowDown

Thanks guys. I love thinking outside the box. Still hoping to fit some fiberglass into my already crazy weekend.


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## sydmonster

oh and cool avatar...


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## BowDown

Haha. Going to be a longer winter.


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## pwnt by pat

You would have been better off going with the first aiming. You're going to lose a lot of detail firing across the dash like your second pics. Also, instead of beaming being located around the width of the tweeter (4khz), you're looking at beaming based on length (1740hz).

The best way to go about it is doing it vertically on-axis. You don't loose too much visibility. Fab is slightly harder though




Or if you can push the tops towards the inside of the a-pillar and pull the bottoms out like this, that would be better too.









The closer you can keep the driver to on-axis the better. They look better your way, but you'll regret the way it sounds.


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## dominilaos

hope everything is going good


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## JKashat

That sub enclosure looks SO NICE. When I don finally far asleep tonight I'm gonna be dreaming about that, for sure. LOL. Looks like your headed in the right direction. Can't wait to see the progress come along.


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## BowDown

Well painting all my trim and attempting to install it took up my whole weekend and then some. Crown molding sucks when installing an in older home!!! Nothing square about it. Also shouldn't of went out drinking saturday night... that didn't help me figure out the compound angles. Still more to go.

Well those are some good critiques regarding the placement. I do realize the planars off-axis response diminishes higher up the freq curve. These are being used as midranges, and not tweeters. I expect the crossover to be approx 700hz -> 3 or 4k. I don't know for sure what the F1 crossovers have in store for me. 

I'm glad that I had them installed in the car while I was driving around this weekend. I think I will be tipping them back a bit towards me. Maybe 1/2way between install 1 and 2.


Thanks for all the compliments.. This install is coming along nicely.


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## turbo5upra

pwnt by pat said:


> You would have been better off going with the first aiming. You're going to lose a lot of detail firing across the dash like your second pics. Also, instead of beaming being located around the width of the tweeter (4khz), you're looking at beaming based on length (1740hz).
> 
> The best way to go about it is doing it vertically on-axis. You don't loose too much visibility. Fab is slightly harder though
> 
> The closer you can keep the driver to on-axis the better. They look better your way, but you'll regret the way it sounds.


Here's are a set in my car firing across the dash,(temp install) off axis on these are drop kick to the [email protected]$ flooring.... the only reason they aren't installed now is.... the left seems to be comming from in front of me, well because it was lol, his are alot more on axis than mine, I think he should do just fine, these have great response to 160 deg. iirc


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## ANT

Very creative. I like it!

ANT


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## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> Here's are a set in my car firing across the dash,(temp install) off axis on these are drop kick to the [email protected]$ flooring.... the only reason they aren't installed now is.... the left seems to be comming from in front of me, well because it was lol, his are alot more on axis than mine, I think he should do just fine, these have great response to 160 deg. iirc



True. I had these in a box for like 4yrs... just collecting dust. Then we tried them out in turbo5upra's car and I fell in love. Awesome midranges!


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## BowDown

DIYMA said:


> Very creative. I like it!
> 
> ANT


Ha got the Admin approval. Must be doing something right.


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## BY-RONALD

Great !!! Good Job!!!


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## BowDown

Ha, always in the quest for perfection I'm creating new rings. Deal hasn't come along for the F1 tweeters I had my heart set on.. so I'm going line array style. I'm going to run a neo3PDR for a tweeter on top of the neo8PDR as a mid. More pics to come today.


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## BowDown

Changing rings to accomodate my neo3PDR tweeters, and the neo8PDR midranges. Haven't cut the holes for the rear poles yet. Ran out of time during lunch.


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## baggedbirds

subscribed.

Do you work in a cabinet shop or something?


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## BowDown

Ha. Good guess. I'm actually the systems administrator for a local truss/stair/wall panel manufacture. As a fringe benefit, and being friends with foreman's I get free reign to use the shop tools for personal use. Also get materials at a discount cost. Helps to feed the addiction. 

I have pretty much any tool I want available to me. Good way to spend lunch hours.


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## baggedbirds

Oh rats - that was my next guess. I saw the trusses in your first pic.


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## n_olympios

And you keep yourself thin. It's obvious you're not using your lunch breaks for their intended use.


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## WLDock

BowDown said:


> I figured I would start a progress thread for my custom stereo project. Little info:
> 
> *Car*:
> -2010 Fusion Sport FWD w/Sony 12 Speaker Stereo (no navigation)
> 
> *Goal*:
> -To fill in the freq curve gaps the stock stereo misses
> -Bring the stage up in front of the driver
> -Clean/Simple install to resemble a factory appearance
> 
> *Equipment*:
> *Front*
> -Alpine F1 SPX-Z18T 3-way X-overs
> -Alpine F1 [Tweeter]
> -Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer (Parts-Express.com:Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer | neo8pdr planar tweeter ribbon tweeter planar transducer) [Mid-range]
> -Tang Band W5-1138SM 5-1/4" Neodymium Subwoofer (Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W5-1138SM 5-1/4" Neodymium Subwoofer | subwoofer 5-1/4" subwoofer neodynium subwoofer tangband tb speakers tangband-22008) [Midbass]
> 
> *Rear*
> -_No Rear Fill_
> 
> *Subwoofer*
> -IDQ12D4
> 
> *Amplifier*
> -US Acoustics 2150 2x150 @ 4ohm RMS [Front Stage]
> -US Acoustics 2075 1x240 @ 4ohm RMS [Sub] (I realize the sub w/present a 2ohm load in parallel, if I run into issues I will swap out the sub for the IDQ12D2)
> 
> *HU*
> -Alpine CDA-9833 3way Crossover/Time Correction/EQ
> 
> 
> *Installation Basics*:
> -Alpine F1 Tweeter in stock location
> -The Planar Mid-Range is going to be molded into the A-Pillar
> -Midbass will be install in the stock front door midbass location
> -Doors will be sound deadened
> -Subwoofer will be installed in a cylinder shaped enclosure in the spare tire well sized so a full 18" Sport wheel/tire (spare) and be placed over top of the box as a speaker grill.
> -Trunk floor will be raised 4" to account for the added full spare height, along with speaker volume requirements.
> -Amps to be installed under raised floor
> -Access hole to be cut in stock carpet floor cover to expose the full spare w/sub inside
> -Stock subs to be removed.


*I Like It!*
IMO, this is a getting back to basics true DIY system. Simple in component make up but thought and work in the install!

I am sure many will tell you that using the F1 Three-way passives with those drivers in those locations will not work. However, you already have shown that you have put thought and creativity in this project. You already seem like the type that will go through the steps of modifications and tuning to get things to work. Good luck with the project man and thanks for keeping it simple and clean yet thoughtful and provocative in the approach.


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## turbo5upra

I have pretty much any tool I want available to me.[/QUOTE said:


> Can't forget the most important tool.... then one doing the install!
> 
> 
> lol, saw that and had to throw that in.
> 
> 
> 
> Ps... i'll be awaiting retaliation in one of my threads


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## BowDown

More ring pics from after work yesterday:


























I like em alot better! They actually flow better on the pillar.


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## BowDown

Ha, thanks for the complements. I've put alot of thought into this setup. Have to say the biggest tool in this thread is Brian (turbo5upra)! Haha. 

Brian and I are going to be devoting this coming Saturday to my car. Have alot of fiberglassing, carpet, and wiring to do yet.


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## jbholsters

Make sure that plug that runs up the pillar won't interfere with your depth of fit. I had to lengthen the plug and move it up higher for the pillar install in my Fusion.


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## BowDown

The ring actually gives me a little depth behind that you can't really see in the blurry pic. Also the planar mid has no depth, and the tweeters backcup has about 1/4" depth. Should be good.


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## BowDown

Final Mockup/Design: 

I love the way they came out. Took my time to match each panel perfect to the other.


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## urban96

NICE!


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## audio+civic

These A pillars with planars look great. I want to hear it when it is done.


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## BowDown

Sealing up the top baffel:

















A-pillar's


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## BowDown

Subwoofer Bottom Baffle:



































Still lots of sanding/filling to do on the A-Pillars. Some sanding on the sub enclosure.

Also did some power/speaker wiring on the fusion. Was an awesome 6hrs on Saturday.


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## turbo5upra

looking good man, I might have to take a listen to it when it's all done.....


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## BowDown

Ha I'm sure you'll be there for the initial powering up.


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## akanoon

Nice job on the woodwork. And a thumbs up for trying something different.


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## Irishfocus06

Amazing craftsmanship! Love the sub enclosure as you don't normally see one like that. Very cool! I will say I am against the masses on the mid placement as IMO it don't flow well, but I am sure it will sound fantastic. Wish I could take a listen. 

Good luck with the rest of the build.


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## rollininstyle2004

I like the A-pillars, great build so far.


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## nuggr

Very good installation...


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## Freijojo

Good installation !
You want put the F#1 tweet on the Front with the ribon tweeters?


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## turbo5upra

he opted for the b&g tweeters....



Freijojo said:


> Good installation !
> You want put the F#1 tweet on the Front with the ribon tweeters?


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## BowDown

Thanks!

I will be using the BG Neo3PDR's as tweeters. The Neo8PDR's are midrange.


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## BowDown

First coat of fiberglassed reinforced bondo. Wow I didn't have long to play with this stuff! Made the mix a bit hot... Opps. So excuse the rough application. I'm sure there's going to be at least a couple more.


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## jbholsters

If you need some really thin mix, take some fiberglass resin and body filler resin and mix a little of both together, then mix in some hardner.


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## doogz

Awesome build!


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## BowDown

Thanks for the tip. I used the reinforced bondo for this layer to add some strength. I only used a medium thickness cloth. Next 2 layers will be the "milkshake".


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## BowDown

High-Speed Sander makes quick work of my rough bondo work. Box also belt sanded:


















Box Dampened:


















Wires Installed:


















Bondo/Resin (Milkshake) Mix on the pillars:


















Pillars Sanded (2nd Coat):


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## audio+civic

Looking good


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## BowDown

Love the signature. Lol. I agree.


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## turbo5upra

a bit more work today, needs more sanding!


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## BowDown

Sweet! There's even progress while I'm at work. Thanks for the effort Brian. Pillars and sub box look good.


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## BowDown

Revised the Specs!


*Car:*
-2010 Fusion Sport FWD w/Sony 12 Speaker Stereo (no navigation)

*Goal:*
-To fill in the freq curve gaps the stock stereo misses
-Bring the stage up in front of the driver
-Clean/Simple install to resemble a factory appearance

*Equipment:*
*Front*
-Alpine F1 SPX-Z18T 3-way X-overs
-Bohlender Graebener Neo3-PDR Planar Transducer [Tweeter]
-Bohlender Graebener Neo8-PDR Planar Transducer [Mid-range]
-Tang Band W5-1138SM 5-1/4" Neodymium Subwoofer [Midbass]

*Rear*
-No Rear Fill

*Subwoofer*
-IDQ12D4

*Amplifier*
-US Acoustics 2150 2x150 @ 4ohm RMS [Front Stage]
-US Acoustics 2075 1x240 @ 4ohm RMS [Sub Voice-Coil #1]
-US Acoustics 2075 1x240 @ 4ohm RMS [Sub Voice-Coil #2] 

*HU*
-Alpine CDA-9833 3way Crossover/Time Correction/EQ


*Installation Basics:*
-The Planar Mid-Range/Tweeter is going to be molded into the A-Pillar
-Midbass will be install in the stock front door midbass location
-Doors will be sound deadened
-Subwoofer will be installed in a cylinder shaped enclosure in the spare tire well sized so a full 18" Sport wheel/tire (spare) and be placed over top of the box as a speaker grill.
-Trunk floor will be raised 4" to account for the added full spare height, along with speaker volume requirements.
-Amps to be installed under raised floor
-Access hole to be cut in stock carpet floor cover to expose the full spare w/sub inside
-Stock subs to be removed.


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## mSaLL150

Nice work, I love the install! Sure wish I could do a large chunk of my install during lunch hours...

Have you gotten a chance to listen to the USA amps yet? I have a 4080 and 4050 I'm about to put in to power my front stage, curious on your thoughts.


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## BowDown

Ya it is nice having the shop to mess around in during my hour lunch. Right now I've been pretty busy outside of work so I haven't gotten anything more done on the pillars. Once they are ready for paint I will be painting all the new interior trim pieces. Then back to the amp rack/flooring. 

Haven't heard the USA amps yet. Will be a surprise! :lol:


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## BowDown

Updates 12-12-2009:

Updates are slow to come in.. been really busy with all the holidays and such. I got them in another coat of icing, and sanded them down. Next will be a quick wet sand then primer to proof my work.


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## turbo5upra

bout time you made some progress....


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## Greg S

BowDown said:


>


You using the garden shears to trim the edges?:laugh:


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## BowDown

You mean the end of the a-pillar panel that will be covered by the dash? I haven't cleaned them up. I will actually have to mark where the pillar meets the dash and clearance the area that's recessed. The tolerances are tight between the pillars/dash. When I wrap these in grill cloth I don't think they will fit. So I'm not that concerned with the ends yet.


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## BowDown

Oh! I gotcha now. I didn't even notice the pruning shears on the work bench. :lol:


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## BowDown

More updates!

Added a crossover attachment to the amp rack










Before Undercoating









After Undercoating

















Test fit before primer

















Primer Time!


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## BowDown

Time to prewire amp rack

























Mockup in car










The wiring hasn't be tied up in these pics. It's actually very clean. More pics to come.


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## flapp1

sweet build,keep up the good work


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## wheelieking71

man, thats freakin awsome. that under the spare sub is bad-ass!


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## BowDown

Thanks! I actually got a chance to preview it. Turbo5upra was helping yesterday, and we swapped out his DIYMA 12 for my IDQ12 (in my enclosure) and it sounded great! Tight, accurate, and even reached deep. Everything I wanted. Can't wait till it's in MY car. :lol:


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## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Can't wait till it's in MY car. :lol:


*scratches head* isn't it in your car now???


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## BowDown

Hmm... True. But it's not functional. :lol:


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## BowDown

flapp1 said:


> sweet build,keep up the good work


Looks better in person Bob. *cough*


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## BowDown

Threw some semi-gloss rattle can black on them. Just for protection from whatever sun might get em. Though the grill cloth you can't see anything anyway..


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## BowDown

Lunch updates:

Put some 1/4" thick double-sided foam tape on the bottom of the planar mounting edge. Stuck em in place and zipped em down with 1/2" long screws. They are looking sweet. 1 last test fit, then I will wrap them in grill cloth and install them in the car.

Had to paint the rivit heads black on the neo8. Stuck out like a sore thumb through the grill cloth.


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## FLYONWALL9

Pardon me if this has been asked already, I didn't see/find it. Could you tell me where you purchased your kerfkore/core? I used some 10+ years ago but the company I got it from is now out of biz.

Thanks, and great install!!


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## BowDown

Well more updates, not so many pictures.

Removed the amp rack and finished up all the wiring.
Removed front door panels, created 1/2" MDF adapter rings.
Fished 4 conductor wire up to the a-pillar & terminated
Fished 4 conductor wire into the doors. WOW what a PITA!! Took about 1hr per door.
Created a bracket for the fuse block under the hood & painted it.
Test fitted the pillars w/speakers installed.

That's actually about it. 5hrs went so fast... I think I'm going to pick up some marine grade plywood and remake the adapter rings. There actually is alot of moisture inside the doors, and I want to make sure the rings don't swell up. 

I dropped one of the pillars and it cracked the fiberglass on the end of the pillar. Epoxy and a light sand/paint and it'll go away. Just set me back! Along with pissed me off.

Speaker mounted with 3/4" material, swapped it out for 1/2" after discovering clearance issues.









Bracket


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## BowDown

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Pardon me if this has been asked already, I didn't see/find it. Could you tell me where you purchased your kerfkore/core? I used some 10+ years ago but the company I got it from is now out of biz.
> 
> Thanks, and great install!!


It's not kerfkore. It's actually 5/4 x 10 Southern Yellow Pine lumber. We use it for stair tread stock here @ work. I kerf'd it myself here in the shop with a dedicated saw we have.


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## FLYONWALL9

"We use it for stair tread stock here @ work. I kerf'd it myself here in the shop with a dedicated saw we have. "

Roger, Roger.... Yeah I would cut it myself but my radial arm saw
cant cut a piece as wide as I need it; not even flippin it over. 
Thanks for the reply.....

Keep up the good work!!!


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## mattyjman

i really like the ingenuity of the install here...i am really curious how those pillars are going to sound


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## BowDown

Thanks guys! I can't wait to hear em myself.

Thursday is an all day work day on the car. Should be able to wrap this install up!


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## BowDown

Wrapped the passenger-side pillar during lunch! Came out pretty good I think!


























Rest of the work is coming tomorrow...


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## TREOUSAMPS_GP

nice work


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## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Ha I'm sure you'll be there for the initial powering up.


Twas so nice of you to fire it up while I was in the other room!


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## BowDown

I had it cranked?!? Lol. That and I had to be sure the crossovers were wired correctly.


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## nostromo

hello, i'm new
I live in italy
the job is very beautiful but doesn't convince me the neo8s must work on axis to the listener!!!
if the 4 extreme sides have different distances from the listener annullamemnti of phase they are had and the acoustic answer in out axle worsens above all drastically to the tall frequencies

they are a dipole and they must work in a closed box (1,5 liter) to avoid acoustic short-circuit

this is my work with neo8...

La mia saxò: voglia di migliorare!!! - Audio Car Stereo Forum

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=300930

sorry for intrusion


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## nostromo

this is my work

bye bye


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## turbo5upra

unsure why a box would have a huge effect,.... since its not sealed like a speaker with a surround, the back wave can exit out the front of the plannar correct? the rear side is firing into acoustic foam. 



nostromo said:


> this is my work
> 
> bye bye


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## nostromo

hello
the back volum influences the frequency of resonance with 1 liter you can be arrived to around 500hz

bye bye


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## nostromo

as it regards axis / out-axis from the measurement he is seen that out-axis the neo8 sends forth little....


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## turbo5upra

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-712.pdf correct me if i'm wrong but these are great off axis? I had them 90 off... and they really sounded great.



nostromo said:


> as it regards axis / out-axis from the measurement he is seen that out-axis the neo8 sends forth little....


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## BowDown

Exactly. The Neo's are great for off-axis response. Especially the PDR flavors. If you weren't over the pond I would love for you to have a listen to my system. The speakers in my opinion sound great! Sure the aiming could be tweaked, EQ's could be tweaked, I could listen to people singing about ruined picnics... but when it's all said and done if I'm happy with the install that's all I care about. 

Your pods while creative are very intrusive. Part of my install was to have a more stock like appearance. This car is my daily driver and I want a trunk to put things in, a spare in case I get a flat, visibility out of the windshield, and no blockage of my HVAC system.


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## BowDown

Also.. Given they are dipole they DO NOT require an enclosure. Actually the freq curves are worse when installed in a sealed enclosure. They become very peaky in the upper octaves.. and extremely peaky around the 8-10k range. My neo8's are crossed over from 600 to 4.3k, and the neo3's take it from 4.3k+.


----------



## nostromo

Specifications

Horizontal dispersion (monopole, -6 dB):

Below 2 kHz 180°
4 kHz 150°
8kHz 85°
10 kHz 70°
12.5kHz 50°

after that

I found me on measurements and tests done in cabin of a car.
you excuse if I have disturbed


----------



## turbo5upra

so they don't make good off axis tweeters?


----------



## nostromo

me on my car with that configuration use only the neo8 with cut 500/20k

bye bye


----------



## BowDown

Actually those are the non-PDR specs. Mine are as follows:

Neo8PDR

Below 2 kHz 180°
4 kHz 170°
8kHz 120°
10 kHz 110°
12.5kHz 85°


----------



## BowDown

Well it's after the holidays and I'm back at it again. Put about 4hrs into the install yesterday. Got the sub amp issues straightened out. Installed a gasket on the IDQ, made a nice difference. Also created a card board template for the floor, cut it out of plywood, and wrapped it in a thermal carpet pad. Next up is charcoal carpet.. but ran out of time and staples. :lol:

Special thanks to turbo5upra for the assistance.


----------



## turbo5upra

*tear* your welcome!.... just be ready to tear into mine! lol (stereo that is)


----------



## BowDown

No prb. We'll be pros by then. :lol:


----------



## Jboogie

That sub box sucks!! 

U should sell it to me and build a better one for yourself. 

Great Job! Mad props!!


----------



## BowDown

Jboogie said:


> That sub box sucks!!
> 
> U should sell it to me and build a better one for yourself.
> 
> Great Job! Mad props!!


How much you got? :lol: I can always build another!


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


>


Looking good.
Your not concerned with the amps overheating though? Also, how did you attach the amp rack to the car?


----------



## BowDown

Well right now it's between -10 and 30 deg out so I can't really say if heat will become an issue. It may come summer time around here. For piece of mind I will be keeping tabs on it once it gets warmer. There's a good amount of airspace down there with the floor installed.. so just a few fans to get things moving should help.

The amp rack on the latch side of the trunk has 2 studs that mount to stock trim tabs and are secured with wing nuts. On the front of the amp rack I'm going to make some L brackets that will utilize the stock seat bracket bolts. The amp rack fits nice and tight as is.. but front brackets will ensure it's secure.


----------



## NOFATTYS

Great looking, creative install!! How do you like the Fusion Sport as a whole? I love the look of the car, but they arent real popular down on Long Island yet. Any issues with it yet?


----------



## BowDown

Lunch update! Got 1 wrapped up. Other one tomorrow!


----------



## BowDown

NOFATTYS said:


> Great looking, creative install!! How do you like the Fusion Sport as a whole? I love the look of the car, but they arent real popular down on Long Island yet. Any issues with it yet?


Love the car. No issues yet. I've had it for almost 5 months now and have put about 8k on it. Great power, sporty suspension gives you great feedback. Only gripe was the sony stereo sucked! So much for "premium sound." Would highly recommend it for someone looking for a sport sedan under 30k.


----------



## Jboogie

BowDown said:


> How much you got? :lol: I can always build another!


PM me with a price.


----------



## BowDown

Floor is done!


----------



## Galante

very nicely done!


----------



## turbo5upra

wheel looks a little off buddy..... might want to line that up.


----------



## Greg S

Came out very nice.


----------



## Phillips

Pure awesomeness!! A good description of how well it sounds when you're done would be great!!


----------



## BowDown

People have been asking for a review, so here goes:


To summarize the system in one work: Awesome!

This is by far the most impressive system I have heard! The front stage is strong, clean, and images very well. The planars do a great job replicating vocals, toms, crash symbols... Don't know why they aren't used more? The tangband 5" Subs also get 2 thumbs up. They do a great job from 80hz to 600hz. Old school US Acoustics (ZED) amps are clean, and powerful. Hell they are cheap too! I'm sending 480watts (240x1 to each VC) RMS to the sub, and 150x2 to the front stage all for $280 shipped. The front stage was reasonable as well. The tweeters were $100 for the pair, midranges were $130 for the pair, and the midbass were $100 for the pair. $330 well spent.

Only issue I have at the moment is the headunit. It's on loan until I get my Eclipse HU... but not having handsfree calling is kinda a bummer. As is not having the aftermarket SYNC module. All to come.

More pics will come when I swap my pillars grill cloth to a dark gray.


----------



## BowDown

All I have to say is "Primus - My Name is Mud" is PHENOMENAL!


----------



## BowDown

I have the pillars out now, going to recover them in the dark gray grill cloth today. Also my purchased HU (as opposed to the one I'm borrowing) will be here today. Little grill cloth on the stereo bezel piece, then I can take some final summary pics.


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Also my purchased HU (as opposed to the one I'm borrowing) will be here today.


Charlie you sir got a rock......


----------



## BowDown

Lunch update. Other one will be finished after work.


----------



## Big_Valven

I love your boot so far, just very nice


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Got the pillars recovered, clipped down, and installed my 9835 HU last night! Have to say I liked the 9887 better, but that's because I knew the menus and had it tuned how I liked it. Now it's time to start over... but I love the look, and features of the 9835 better.

Brought my actual camera to work today (not my camera on the blackberry). I'll get some summary pics to show the completion of stage I. 

Stage II will involve some interior (re)coloring, and a custom dash mat.


----------



## Brian_smith06

Your going to love that 9835 once you get the hang of it. By far my favorite alpine I have owned. And I have had the 9815 and 9855 in the past. Currently run the 9835


----------



## turbo5upra

going to have to second that after stepping back to my 9833 from the 9887,.....

Might have to snag me a 9835 for my car, put the 33 in the old ladies summer car, and the 87 in her daily....


----------



## BowDown

I'm sure its a better hu. I just gotta get the bugs worked out. I found the hu defaults to subwoofer stereo, and after changing to mono that fixed my phasing issues. I'm going to fire up the 9887 and check some eq and ta settings. Had the 9887 sounding sick!


----------



## BowDown

Pics with my real camera from 1/22/2010:


----------



## sydmonster

nicely done and really well executioned


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Did over an hour of tuning last night and she's sounding sweet! Little more delay in the front will make the sub completely transparent again. Well I say again because I had the 9887 tweaked.. and in my haste swapping out to the 9835 I lost all my settings.


----------



## slvrtsunami

Too bad Im on the West Coast (BTW, whats that white stuff on the ground??? ). I would like to hear the planars...

Good execution.


----------



## BowDown

Haha. What white stuff. We got about 2 inches of rain today and it took all but some of the snow banks away. 

Anyway, had an "oh ****!" moment during lunch. I had held off clipping the a-pillars in till I was absolutely sure they were done. Well I was thinking that I probably added about 1/8" of material to the edge of the pillar and I should probably shim the metal claw style clip out 1/8" to compensate. I did the passenger side one first. Looked like ass! It was hanging out 1/8".  So I did the driver side one without the spacer and it looked great.. now is the fun part. THEY DON'T COME BACK OUT without bending the crap out of the pillar trim. So I spent 20 min just pulling, shifting, pulling, shifting... till finally "POP!". I felt so relieved to see there was no damage to the pillar. Didn't hear any nasty sounds while pulling the panel either. Well I put the clip back on without the spacer.. walla! Done.


----------



## audio+civic

its freekin snowing again. I will never get to wash my car.


----------



## BowDown

New addition to be installed soon. 2-Channel, 32-Band per channel EQ. Time to tweak it a little here, little there.


----------



## BowDown

Well I listed the EQ on ebay. I figured there was no use getting it all tweaked and such when I physically have no room to install it. I refuse to expose the EQ. I want everything hidden best I can. So I bought a PPI EQ230 off a fellow member here. I will be able to fit that under the false floor, and remove it from the cradle to tweak settings up front. 

More grill cloth action to happen soon. Going to wrap my radio bezel in burgandy colored grill cloth along with a couple accent pieces in the car. Want to get my 2 tone interior back. 

Also in this off time I have been working on the car. I installed a nice compustar remote start system. Mmm... nothing like coming out to a nice warm car in the winter. 

More updates in the next week or so. Project is VERY close to being done. Don't think I have ever been able to say those words. :lol:


----------



## brandont

Grest looking install, especially the a-pillars; they remind me of when I had planar tweets up there.

I can appreciate the need for a stealth trunk, here's something you can do with the PPI EQ: I made a custom straight through Cat-5 cable and kept the cradle in the trunk and the control piece stayed in my glove compartment. Works great, if your glove compartment has room, if you're like my wife, it may not even close due to all fo the stuff inside


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man.

I just swapped out the IDQ12v2D4 for a DIYMA R12. Given the ohm differences I also swapped out the (2) 2075 amps for my old JBL BP1200.1 (1200 @ 2, 600 @ 4). Verdict is still up in the air. The DIYMA sub defiantly has more output. It gives you that kinda kick drum thump that was missing with the IDQ. But the IDQ had a more natural sound to the bass. It really didn't stick out in the stage and blended well with the midbass/front stage. The DIYMA kinda reminds me of being at a concert with a mic'd kick drum. Not exactly realistic sounding, but in your face force. 

Verdict is still out on this one. I'm thinking just to be fair I might swap back to the IDQ and keep the JBL installed.. but I really have to watch it because with the ohm load the IDQ will present the JBL is going to unleash 1200watts RMS.


----------



## BowDown

Subs swapped back and the IDQ w/JBL is the winning combo. Just sounds so much better! Natural bass is a wonderful thing. Put a conservative tune on the gain... we'll see how long before I explore more.


----------



## 2167

Is that Diyma broken in?


----------



## BowDown

Ya, it was being used by a buddy of mine. He offered it to me straight up trade for the IDQ. I tried it out with various crossover points/slopes... just like the IDQ better.


----------



## BowDown

Amp swap time!

Well my (2) 2075's weren't quite cutting it in the power dept. So I have retired them.. and I got such a good deal on a pair of matching old school (early 90's, note the hardwired power wires) Alphasonik PMA-2150IX's  .

They put out the same current as my old USA2150 was (front stage).

I only have a picture of the 1.. but they are in excellent shape. Even have the protective film still on the decal plate!

Installation pics will be taken today.


----------



## BowDown

Got 1 of the 2 in temporarily because I had to ship out my USA2150. Sounds very nice. Have to say all the pigtail wires off the amp is a pain in the ass. What I wouldn't do for screw down terminals. :lol: I'm going to solder/heatshrink all connections this weekend. The amps don't have any fuses either.. requires an inline 30A. So I picked up a MAXI style stinger fuse block. Should be here saturday.


----------



## SQCherokee

Looks great. I like stealth installs my self. I think you definatly accomplished what you were going for. What do the pillars look like from the front and side windows now that they are wrapped?

I am considering doing something similar with my truck and am curious to know if they still stand out to somebody who is just walking by the car.

Also Have you thought about making up something that would fill in the spokes of the spare with mesh? this would provide a bit more protection for the sub and would keep it from geting jabbed by anything in the trunk that may slide under there.


----------



## BowDown

I will snap a couple pics for ya from the window view. 

I'm actually going to cut out an over-sized circle cover of automotive carpet and sew a nice stitch all the way around with a couple velcro pads. That way I don't have to worry about trunk contents damaging the wheel. There's no real worry about anything getting to the sub.

More install pics this weekend!


----------



## BowDown

I did find 1 pic of the pillars installed from the windshield view. I don't believe you will be able to see them from the side windows. I'll check later today.


----------



## SQCherokee

Wow, I like that...some one would really have to be scouting cars to break into to even notice. 

Does it throw off your view while driving?

[edit]
Wow, I just looked these up on parts express...I was under the impression that they were really really expensive...they are not bad at all.

They look alot like the tweet units martin logan uses in the preface speakers.

MartinLogan | Preface

I may do a similar setup in my truck.


----------



## BowDown

Na it doesn't effect my vision at all. Prbly sticks out an inch or so beyond the stock trim piece. More pics tomorrow.


----------



## turbo5upra

Mine are even less noticeable... I had bigger pillars to work with....


----------



## niceguy

Very nice job overall....I've always wanted to try the TB mini subs and have just ordered a pair of the 6.5" subs for my little brothers Dakota R/T truck....

I'm about to try some Neo3s (PDR or not, can't remember) in my van's a pillar as well to replace some large format tweets...

Keep up the good work and nice choice on the car....Ford's finally offering some nice sporty cars instead of keeping them all in Europe or Aussie land


----------



## BowDown

New amps are in. EQ is in. 1hr tune on EQ and I would have to say the stereo sounds phenomenal! Best system I have ever heard. 

Had to rewire for the new equipment:


----------



## BowDown

Alphasonik amps are very nice.

Got a good solid bass tune on the PPI EQ. Sounds great!


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Nice Crossovers !


----------



## turbo5upra

wonder where he picked that junk up from  lol.....



ruffryderso said:


> Nice Crossovers ! [/QUOTE


----------



## BowDown

ruffryderso said:


> Nice Crossovers !


:laugh:

I'm completely happy with them. Thanks again!


----------



## BowDown

MORE UPDATES!:

I'm going to start the sound deading phase of this install soon. I plan on sound deadening the doors foil backed material, and foam. Will also be installing some second skin speaker tweaker pads. The trunk area is also going to receive some foil backed material.

I originally used MDF baffles, but while I'm at it I'm going to swap them for these baffles I made from a non-porous cutting board. Some sanding is in order yet once I mock them up.




















Thinking of starting a new thread once I get the rest of my material.


----------



## jorgegarcia

I said it once and I'll say it again, 

I love your trunk 

And please keep all your post about this car on this thread, I have it bookmarked and keep looking back and forth thru all your pics and post.


----------



## thechainrule

You have inspired me. I am going to do a Neo8 A pillar install in my grand cherokee. Do you have the dimensions of the first enclosure you made by chance? The one with just the neo8 driver or would you be willing to sell them?


----------



## turbo5upra

I ended up with the old mounts,.... My set are in the classifieds, trying to simplify my life.


----------



## thechainrule

damn i already have the planars. Would you be willing to sell the enclosures only?


----------



## BowDown

Well the extra set did go to Brian's car. They were actually pretty easy to make if you have access to a router w/a cutting bit? They weren't really enclosures.. just mounting rings that would then need to be fiberglassed into your A-Pillars.

I'm curious to hear what your system plans are. Have you started a build thread of your own?


----------



## thechainrule

Not yet. Ill get on that at some point this week. How are you liking the neo3s?


----------



## BowDown

Neo3's are nice. They are clean, but not harsh. I've heard quite a few different metal domes and they tend to get a little shrill. These neo3's off-axis are pretty clean and flat. I have very little eq on the tweeters.


----------



## pimpedout97x

wheelieking71 said:


> man, thats freakin awsome. that under the spare sub is bad-ass!


the spare sub?


----------



## BowDown

:lol: tru.



I ordered some SPL tiles, closed cell foam, and I already have the speaker tweakers for the front doors. Going to get all the rattles and flex taken care of this weekend or maybe next week.

I found the fabric I've been waiting for to redo the headliner! Woohoo! Also ordered new pillar grill cloth in a light sand color to match the new headliner fabric. That project to start in a few weeks.

After having my car RTA'd and judged I'm pretty damn happy! The judge was very impressed with the overall sound. I was given some suggestions which a few I have already implemented. 

-Change crossover point on the mids from 800hz to 500hz. (I love Alpine F1 crossovers for being able to set whatever I want).
-EQ adjustment to bring up the 400hz -> 1.2khz range. Was a little low on the RTA and might hinder some staging of vocals. I adjusted the EQ by ear and I tend to like my music a little muted in the 1k range, but after making the adjustment up a little it still sounds awesome. 
-I might have a slight phasing issue around 2k range. So I'm going to work on adjusting the midrange in the driver-side slightly to get a better angle and possibly correct this. 

Overall I'm still very happy with the system. 

More updates to come.


----------



## BowDown

Well I tried 

-Both mids out of phase [made stage wider, but lost alot of depth of sound]
-Both mids/tweets out of phase [no real change in highs, same as above]
-Both mids/tweets/midbass out of phase [eh]

-Right mid out, left in [pulled the stage to the right, kind narrowed the stage]
-Right mid/tweet out, left in [same as above]
-Right mid/tweet/midbass out, left in [total ass]

-Right tweet out, left in [seems to be a winner. the right tweet isnt as bright which helps center the stage. I also changed the left tweet from +1.5 to +4db. Have to see how I like it later]


----------



## BowDown

Ok well I believe I have a winner:


tweet - Left *out* / Right in
mid - Left *out* / Right *out*
midbass - Left in / Right in 


The image seems cleaner and more defined. Now I just need to tweak my EQ again. 

Door deadening material should be here Tuesday.


----------



## BowDown

Well a frustrating day for the stereo. After not getting it to sound like I wanted I put it back to all in-phase and set the EQ back to the pics i took... still wasn't completely happy. I think my ears are just spesnt for today. Going to start fresh tomorrow during lunch on EQ'ing.

I did however cut down the DEQ230 . Actually come to think of it.. that saw was kinda loud, wonder if that had an effect. Doh!










The cutoff section is underneath it. I cut it down to fit into my amp rack. The EQ will live in the glove box or under a seat.


----------



## BowDown

Purchased my new headliner material this weekend!










I also have a matching cream colored grill cloth to re-wrap my A-Pillar pods in. The fabric should go pretty well with the cream colored plastic trim.

Discuss. :lol:


----------



## turbo5upra

looks like a bad pair of golf pants.


----------



## BowDown

Just about the Irish/Scottish look I was going for.


----------



## BowDown

I just picked up a couple nice case fans for my amp rack cooling! Double Ball-Bearing 3-speed Antec fans. Very quiet on setting 1 and 2... still decent on setting 3. I figure for those hot days where I'm going to beat on the system I can set them on position 3, otherwise 2 should work great. 

Best of all got em for $7.50 each locally cause of my awesome discount. 










Going to wire em up with the 4-pin molex connection for easy replacement.


----------



## BowDown

Got quite a bit down today. Strategically sound deadened the doors. Installed the speaker tweakers. Installed the new baffles. Sounds nice. Not a night and day difference but the midbass is a little stronger and cleaner.

I remounted the HU. Replaced the RCAs. Mounted the EQ and ran a long perm remote line to make adjustments from up front. Also tied up alot of loose ends like the antenna power wire, and lots of cable ties. 

Was a great day.


----------



## thechainrule

Dont mean to hijack but I commented earlier that your project was sort of an inspiration for me. I just finished making these enclosures. Do I need to cut a hole in the back of these or leave them sealed up for the neo8s?


----------



## BowDown

You're going to want the back of your baffles routed out. That would sound pretty peaky otherwise. Just the space behind the pillar seems to work well for me.


----------



## Apothacon

BowDown thx for postin your build... gave me lots to think about as i plan my first noob install especially the trunk and A pillars


----------



## thechainrule

What did you use to keep the cloth tight on the enclosures/panels while you glassed and covered them with speaker cloth. 

Im about to bust out the staple gun and try my luck making it look neat when its dry. Im having a hard time keeping fold and wrinkles out of the fabric.


----------



## BowDown

Hot glue my man. I used it to secure the fabric for glassing, and the grill cloth for finishing. Works well if you clean the panel with some kind of thinner, and rough it up a bit with some course sand paper.


----------



## BowDown

Updated!

Per a suggestion from my buddy Brian I swapped out the flat & egg crate acoustic foam for 5oz of polyfill. Made a nice change to the sub. Little louder, deeper, and smoother if ya will. Well worth the $3.50 for the bag.


----------



## dvcrogers

awesome build man. I wish I had skills!!!!!


----------



## BowDown

Ha. Thanks for the props. 

Only one way to get better at something... research and do it.


----------



## SmallSoldier

BowDown,

First and most importantly... Congratulations! Very nice install... Which I had the skills 

One question, from the pictures I couldn't see if there was any type of grill protecting your subwoofer... With it's current position and the fact that your trunk is functional, you wouldn't like something being dropped in there and harming the surround of the sub... and small grill on top of it wouldn't hurt

Regards,
SS


----------



## BowDown

SmallSoldier said:


> BowDown,
> 
> First and most importantly... Congratulations! Very nice install... Which I had the skills
> 
> One question, from the pictures I couldn't see if there was any type of grill protecting your subwoofer... With it's current position and the fact that your trunk is functional, you wouldn't like something being dropped in there and harming the surround of the sub... and small grill on top of it wouldn't hurt
> 
> Regards,
> SS


Thanks for the input. While the wheel does offer some protection I do know what you mean about small objects getting down there. I don't really tend to carry anything loose.. but no fear... I am ordering some charcoal carpet to make a circular shaped cover to put over the spare tire (and lap the floor a bit). It will be acoustically transparent as far as bass goes, and it will protect the spare along with sub while I'm actually using the trunk. Otherwise I will have it rolled up and set aside. 

The hub section of the wheel actually recesses into the cone area of the sub. This would make any normal grill impossible to use.


----------



## SmallSoldier

It's an awesome install... I am sure it will look great!

The problem is that you never know what may happen and it's better just to prevent it

Congratulations again!
SS


----------



## Afronaut

great install...it's given me alot of ideas for mine


----------



## BowDown

Just competed at my 2nd Sound Quality show in Oswego last Saturday. Placed 1st again! Brought my score up from 86 to 91 (out of 100). I just need to make a few minor changes and upgrade my factory ground then I will easily be mid 90's.

So happy with this installation!


----------



## zblee

looks awsome, love the subbox under the tire...


----------



## BowDown

Well here's the pics from Friday's work! I removed the amp rack and sub enclosure.. then all the trunk carpet pieces. Sound deadened the trunk lid, then wrapped the wheel wells, and laid strips on the long panels/rear deck/spare tire well. Also installed a couple cooling fans for my amp rack.

More to come!


----------



## turbo5upra

hows those womanly hands hold'n up?


----------



## BowDown

Haha. Healing. That damp pro **** is sharp!

BTW: Thanks again for the hand.


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> BTW: Thanks again for the hand.



I thought what happened in the gayrage stayed in the garage....... oh wait you meant with the install....


----------



## BowDown

Like I always say... you're not gay if you're driving.


----------



## KnightWhoSaysNI

Great build! I really like the fact that you went with the Alphas. Are you still using the JBL to power the sub or are just the two alphas powering the whole system?


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. . Ya the alphasoniks are the whole deal.


----------



## KnightWhoSaysNI

gezzzzz... I can remember drooling over those in the Crutchfield catalog...


----------



## BowDown

Ha nice. Well considering the amps are about 21years old.. that would make me 8 when they were in the crutchfield catalog. How old are you?!? :lol:


----------



## KnightWhoSaysNI

35  I was a freshman in high school in Albuquerque NM at the time and just got my permit... car audio was HUGE back then! I fact at that time I cant remember any of my friends not having a system in their car. I just really like that you can win with old gear, your amps are probably older than some people on here


----------



## BowDown

Just bought a matching PMA2050i amp. Also bought a couple matching audio transformers.. Going to work on some ambient rear fill. Just gotta locate a couple more neo8PDR's for the rear.


----------



## BowDown

My new midbasses are here!



> Tang Band W6-1721 6-1/2" Underhung Midbass Driver - Description
> 
> The W6-1721 6" midbass features a long throw, underhung 1-1/2" voice coil driven by a massive 50 oz. ferrite magnet. A shorting ring on the polepiece is responsible for the speaker's extremely low levels of second and third order harmonic distortion. This impressive motor is coupled to an optimized paper cone with rubber surround, supported by a cast aluminum frame. The driver's naturally high and smooth upper frequency rolloff facilitates simplified crossover designs. Specifications: Power handling: 50 watts RMS/100 watts max *VCdia: 1-1/2" *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.4 ohms *Frequency range: 40-5,000 Hz *Fs: 40 Hz *SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 1.04 cu. ft. *Qms: 3.58 *Qes: .49 *Qts: .43 *Xmax: 8 mm *Dimensions: Overall diameter 6.95", Cutout diameter 5.8", Depth 4.3".



Going to install them in a couple weeks. For now here's some eye candy:


----------



## BowDown

Also purchased an additional 30band EQ so I can adjust L/R separately. 

Going to be swapping out the amps as well. Bought a 5 channel Tube Driver Blue.


----------



## Notloudenuf

I don't see those fitting in your doors, but I'm looking forward to seeing you try.


----------



## BowDown

LOL. Thanks. 

Figure if they don't fit with the stock place baffle pieces I could always drill out the rivits and make some new baffles.


----------



## turbo5upra

Notloudenuf said:


> I don't see those fitting in your doors, but I'm looking forward to seeing you try.


I didn't see him getting a 10" sub in his dash


----------



## Notloudenuf

turbo5upra said:


> I didn't see him getting a 10" sub in his dash


Yea, I wanted to be sure I did NOT say it 'couldn't be done'


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Yea, I wanted to be sure I did NOT say it 'couldn't be done'


Just from some estimated measurements the motor structure should fit in the same hole as my 5.25" subs, and I just need to make a wider/larger baffle cutout for the midbasses to secure to. Only concern is depth and hitting the metal lip behind the plastic baffle.


----------



## scott2mil

I've been following your posts for awhile now. I admire your persistency, ambition and deviation from the norm for better sound. I have a Scion XA and want to either mount either the NEO8's in the A pillar like yours or mount them horizontally on the dash. Can they be mounted horizontally? I ask this because I remember a company at CES show back in 97 who made planar's for car audio. They were mounted horizontally under the dash much like horns. Do the NEO 8's lack upper frequency response? Is that why you ran NEO3's?


----------



## BowDown

Well the neo8's (PDR version) have a wide horizontal dispersion, but a fairly narrow verticle. Just a nature of the planar. So as long as you can use the windshield to help widen the stage somehow u'll be set. Might be tricky. 

I went with the neo3's cause when demo'ing the neo8's in a friends car I found the highs a bit harsh. I kinda attriuted this to the large size of the planar. Turns out it was prbly just reflections. I haven't went back to confirm or deny this logic yet. Actually would be an interesting experiment. Might try it when I swap amps for the tube driver.


----------



## turbo5upra

or it could have been the polks making it harsh. lol

Neo's are very smooth and can get loud but its been too long to comment on them by themselves.


----------



## BowDown

Ahh! Polks! Ears bleeding...


----------



## drocpsu

I've been following your dash-sub project but just saw this one again.

Do you have a full-sized spare in your Sport? I think my SE only came with a doughnut. How much trunk depth did you lose by raising the floor like that? I love the under-spare sub enclosure. That's awesome. I would like to keep my trunk as usable as possible as well, and that would be a great option (though I Dont think I'd ever be able to make an enclosure like that one!) I've also been considering attempting a fiberglass side-facing enclosure behind one of the tire wells. 

What's the max mounting depth for the front door woofers?


----------



## BowDown

My sport only came with a donut as well. I bought a used 18" sport wheel, and put on a tire that was plugged from me running over a screw. If you look back in the install thread I used 2x4's to create a frame, then 5/8" CDX covered in pad and carpet to create a new floor. 

Thanks for the complements. I may be selling the amp rack, floor pieces, and sub box soon. They aren't being used in the new setup. 

Max depth is subjective. It all depends on how thick your adapter piece is, and how big the motor structure is. If my motors were a bit smaller on the new midbass they would fit in well. Those are 4.3" deep.


----------



## BowDown

Oh I forgot the other question. I lost about 4.5" of floor depth. 3.5" for the 2x4, 5/8" for the CDX, and about 3/8" for padding/carpet.


----------



## req

well, your install looks pretty cool. I will be moving back to Syracuse in about 5 months. 

by the way, what shop are you working at? i have been to a few ultimate edge shows in oswego and some at installations unlimited in syracuse.

Keep up the good work man!


----------



## BowDown

I work at a manufacturing facility. I get use of the tools after hours or during lunch hours. Don't work for a car audio facility. I know Ultimate Edge does alot of SPL shows.. I've only been to their store once. I met them at the car audio competition (SPL) down in Moorisville NY.


----------



## req

ah ha! right on, i just figured you worked at a shop since your boss said it was uneven haha! well, if you are in the area when im around after may, ill shoot ya a pm and have a little SQ meet or somethin


----------



## turbo5upra

Is it just me or do the people @ Installation Unlimited seem above everyone else? every time I ask about a product I get talked down to. I called about a Prs800 and the guy told me thats old they have the prs99 out. I asked what the changes are and he replied its a full competition headunit I asked what that meant as far as features and he said "it's competition headunit....." thanx but that doesn't get me any farther.


----------



## req

Ya they have been snooty for a long time because they are one of like three or four install shops in syracuse. They had some good guys working there a few years back but most of them were shady and I've heard stories of people getting robbed a few days after the install.. wonder who did it :uhoh:


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Well good news is I'm opening my own shop In Syracuse for those very same reasons I'll be open in a few weeks I welcome anyone on the forum Love to help anyone I can out. Oh and I can tell you the difference between a 800 and a 99. All without acting like a stuck up prick !


----------



## BowDown

ruffryderso said:


> Well good news is I'm opening my own shop In Syracuse for those very same reasons I'll be open in a few weeks I welcome anyone on the forum Love to help anyone I can out. Oh and I can tell you the difference between a 800 and a 99. All without acting like a stuck up prick !


Sweet. I'll be sure to stop by.


----------



## turbo5upra

Let us know when.... not that I want to dig into my pocket for a 99 but... wouldn't mind seeing what you have to offer.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

I'll have ARC Audio, Exile Audio, some raw drivers and some used equipment  I thank you for the support


----------



## req

ill check it out too when i get back


----------



## BowDown

Figured my amp rack install is better to have in the general building thread than the dash mounted subwoofer thread.

Here's some pics of the amp rack so far:


----------



## BowDown




----------



## BowDown

CURRENT:

Amp rack in place. I'm thinking a 1/4" MDF panel wrapped in charcoal carpet to cap the end. I'm also going to install a trunk latch assembly to lock the amp rack in place.


----------



## StruckBy99

Good job on the amp rack and I love those huge F1 xovers!


----------



## BowDown

Thanks.

After I make my custom RCA cables the clutter will be gone. Also going to center up the amp, and mount the distro blocks on the side wall of the tray (have a smaller + distro now). Then it's time to paint the inside, LED lighting, and a windowed cover.


----------



## urban96

wow, lots of cuse ppl in here


----------



## tr0y_audi0

ha ha you change your gear more than me!!


nice job keep it up!


----------



## LeandroVeterinario

I love your Spare Subwoofer Box too! I get the pictures to show to the Audio Store, here in Brazil, to do a "copy" (with fiberglass and wood) in my Ford Focus Sedan. My subwoofer is a Morel Ultimo SC 121

I bought a used well too, with a new tire... thank's for that great idea!

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...0-new-focus-sedan-brazil-january-20011-a.html


----------



## eviling

cheese and rice how many amps are in this thing i lost count? now your adding one to the rear deck? >_<


----------



## bikerider

I think from his sig he is running everything off of the single Butler amp.

Justin, I have been reading this thread since you started this build, all I can say is wow, nice job - you definitely have some good fabrication skills!

Is anything else changing when you get the dash sub in?


----------



## BowDown

Well outside of new midbass that should be about it. Once the sub is in, it's all about tuning. Maybe some aesthetic changes, but not sure yet.


----------



## BowDown

Look for more updates this Sunday.

This Sunday morning is dedicated to working on the amp rack latch, and air cylinder. Once this is done I will be removing the amp rack and doing all the aesthetic touches. Then running new vehicle RCA wiring. Then after this is done the stereo bezel will be removed from the car and I will start the fiberglass work on that.


----------



## nostromo

The coiled cable signal is the worst thing you can do ... becomes inductive


----------



## BowDown

nostromo said:


> The coiled cable signal is the worst thing you can do ... becomes inductive


They are only temporary. My GEPCO cable and Neutrik ends have arrived and while I'm cleaning up the amp rack I will custom make new RCA cables. Also am replacing the existing vehicle RCA cables because I had to extend them 4ft to reach the new amp rack location.


----------



## Mixerdriver

subscribed


----------



## BowDown

Well the pictures have some gaps.

First I had to cut off the bracket on the catch piece. Then I welded on a 6" long 1" x 1/8" mild steel strip. After removing the stock trunk light assembly I was able to slip in the strip with the catch attached. Center it up. Pre-Drill holes for 2 mounting screws, and mounted the catch strip. The weight of the catch is held by the car because the strip goes up inside the stock sheet metal.

After this was done I created a 3/4" spacer block to go behind the latch mechanism.. and then temporarily mounted that with self tapping screws.

Works very well!

Once I remove the amp rack to finish it I will paint the latch, and replace the self taps with T-Nuts. 

The functionality is there though.


----------



## BowDown

Worked outside in single digit temps to create a cardboard template for the face of my amp rack. There's a couple arcs I will draw in based on markings after transfer, and the center area around the latch will be squared up. I'm also creating a cover for the latch itself.


----------



## baggedbirds

looks like a latch from a T-bird?


----------



## BowDown

Close.. 88-89 Ford Taurus. :lol:


----------



## BowDown

Bathroom project is still going on.. Sold off everything I was planning to. I have the carPC all operation on my desk @ work. Thing is going to be awesome! 6 fully active channels of DSP, dvd, wireless keyboard, touch screen monitor... Stay tuned.


----------



## turbo5upra

none of that stuff up there is in the car is it???? thought I saw a for sale thread with it.


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> none of that stuff up there is in the car is it???? thought I saw a for sale thread with it.


What are you smokin?


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> What are you smokin?


eq's... head unit....


----------



## BowDown

You said none?


----------



## Ludemandan

Hey BowDown, do you have those underhung midbasses installed yet? I'm curious to know how they sound. Oh, and first rate work on the front stage! 

I say you replace your spare with a lightweight thin-spoke wheel for more transparency. It would probably be the first time a wheel was bought for acoustics.


----------



## BowDown

Ludemandan said:


> Hey BowDown, do you have those underhung midbasses installed yet? I'm curious to know how they sound. Oh, and first rate work on the front stage!
> 
> I say you replace your spare with a lightweight thin-spoke wheel for more transparency. It would probably be the first time a wheel was bought for acoustics.


Might want to give the thread a read-over. :lol: I wasn't able to get the underhung in the doors. I stopped myself before cutting up the door cards. That would cross the line in this install. Gotta stick to my guns. 

I pulled the spare tire sub box and amp rack out. I'm not finishing up my next amp rack that is hinged under the rear deck. I put the donut back in for now as a spare. 

The sub is now in the center of my dash.


----------



## BowDown

Been awhile on updates. Bathroom project is killing my time and motivation.. but it's almost done!

Today I routed out the window for the amp rack top. I flushed the 1/4" plexy into the bottom. I plan on routing out another either window on each side, or perforated steel for air flow. This will give ya a taste though...















































Plan on getting a goof 5-6hrs to work on it next Saturday along with lunch hours this week. Outside is going to be charcoal carpet to give it a more stealth appearance.


----------



## BowDown

Also bent up a couple mounting brackets from 1/2" x 1/16" aluminum.


----------



## English audiophile

I love the idea of a tube amp driving those planner drive units, sweet & warm sounds


----------



## BowDown

English audiophile said:


> I love the idea of a tube amp driving those planner drive units, sweet & warm sounds


That it is.. nothing like the effortless sound of the planars picking up the subtle harmonics of the tube driver. 

I can't wait to hear my system again! This downtime is killing me. Have to remember this the next time I think of changing the system around. :lol:


----------



## req

amen to that. i was going to do some fiberglassing to day but its like 45 degrees out, it was like 70 yesterday!


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> amen to that. i was going to do some fiberglassing to day but its like 45 degrees out, it was like 70 yesterday!


Ouch! Been there done that. Luckily I can use the shop here after hours. Pretty consistent humidity and temp. But back in the day glassing outside was FUN.


----------



## req

dont make me sad!


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> dont make me sad!


:lol: Well at the rate I'm going I wont have tunes for another month.  How sad is that!


----------



## BowDown

Lunchtime updates:

Well my depth on the router mess up made the decision for me whether I was going plexy or perforated steel. LOL. Steel it is! Going to put in 1 on each end for venting. Center will stay plexy.

She'll look great either way.


----------



## BowDown

Had to clearance the top a bit to clear the trunk lid wiring harness. Kinda sucks, but nothing I can do except try to make it look planned. Also smoothed out the end cap pieces and a teaser shot of the mesh in the side vents.


----------



## BowDown

Amp rack and other pieces wrapped in carpet. Need to install the mesh, plexy, and dress the edges of the top.


----------



## BowDown

After looking at the top cover a bit, I'm going to redo it. Don't like the way it came out. Boo!


----------



## n_olympios

Why not? It looks fine from here.


----------



## BowDown

I wrapped the base carpet around the edge. The top panel couldn't be trimmed down enough to fit with the carpet wrapped around the edges. So when it's placed in you can see the plywood edges of the top at certain angles. Along with the vent cutouts were a bit too large due to a router depth setting error. So today during lunch I ripped down some solid red oak and dato'd some plows into it. Going to assemble the frame tomorrow then Wednesday after some sanding hope to put a couple coats of poly on it.


----------



## BowDown

Mmm... Cherry. :lol:

Anyway I got the pieces cut and all glued up. Hope it turns out well.


----------



## BowDown

Cherry panel survived the sander. Also did some manual sanding on it. Then I re-cut the plexy piece to fit the new opening. Will stain this piece and cut/paint the mesh pieces tomorrow during lunch.


----------



## BowDown

Last nights updates!

Top staining pictures. Will poly it today during lunch:

























Mesh is cut, cleaned, and ready for black paint:









Speaker box needed some carpet on the back to stop this annoying tick sound I was getting with it vibrating against the cross support:

















Used plastic push in fasteners to hold down the trim panels. Might need to find a better solution:


----------



## turbo5upra

So full of fail.











 Like the look of the push pins.... makes it look like something Ford would do 
Nice job with the wood too.


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> So full of fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like the look of the push pins.... makes it look like something Ford would do
> Nice job with the wood too.




Thanks. Can't wait to see it with 3 coats of poly.


----------



## IBcivic

Busted!... I knew it was "Nawm" Abrams, all along...

Nice woodworking skills there, man!


----------



## BowDown

Put on 3 coats. Didn't take a pic of the last coat. Will take a pic tomorrow after it dries. Installed the LED's. Also bolted down the latch with a pair of nut/bolt combos. Didn't like a self tap in MDF. 

1st coat:









2nd coat:









LED's installed:


----------



## BowDown

Saturday updates:

Test fit the top:









Got the mesh, and plexy installed into the top.









LED Test:











Sunday updates:

Trial fit w/plexy and mesh:









LED's lit!!:

















Soldering Station:









RCA's made for 5 channels of 3.5mm goodness:


----------



## BowDown

Got some more wires loomed, and the right angle connectors on the amps 8ga power feed soldered.


----------



## BowDown

Final amp rack wiring done. Got everything secured down. Bit tight but clean. 


















Will have it installed into the car tomorrow during lunch.


----------



## BowDown

If anyone is wondering that small green circuit board and black power supply below it (in the pic) is my light triggered switch for amp turn-on. When running a carPC there's no good way to tell the amps when to power up. Normal headunits have a remote turn on lead for this purpose. I thought about running an ignition-on feed to the amp.. but in an effort to avoid any pop's during PC boot I decided to install a LDR (light dependent resistor) over the LED power indicator on the soundcard, and ran it back to that circuit I made. That way the amps wont power up till the carPC is fully booted. The power supply was required because of the fluctuating voltages of a cars power system.


----------



## BowDown

Lunch Updates:

Got the amp rack mounted, and wired up the LED's to the trunk light circuit.


















I'm going to remake the front fascia piece out of 1 continuous piece of wood with a bump out for the latch. Will look cleaner. Also need a catch strap to keep the amp rack from swinging all the way vertical.


----------



## NickMDX

LOVE this setup!! 

I'm doing a 2-way active install with HAT L6's and BG Neo3PDR's and I love checking out other related systems. Mine won't be quite so elaborate but will be very stealthy and look pretty much stock.

Love that butler amp too! I run a hybrid tube driven amp in my home 2ch. setup and love the way they sound!! 

I'm a little jealous over here.


----------



## turbo5upra

I could have used a station like that one this weekend!


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> I could have used a station like that one this weekend!


Ya I found it at a flea market. Nice stuff.

Thanks for the props. neo3's are great tweeters! 

Will be posting some updated pics later in the week. Lunch hrs haven't been as productive as I'd hope. 

All the wiring is DONE. Everything is in techflex. Looks nice. Will post some pics of that tomorrow.


----------



## Fus1on

I looked for the answer myself and didn't see it mentioned, checked the Creative Labs site for it and didn't see one on there so my fellow Fusion Fan, What is the Creative Labs box and it's purpose?


----------



## BowDown

Fus1on said:


> I looked for the answer myself and didn't see it mentioned, checked the Creative Labs site for it and didn't see one on there so my fellow Fusion Fan, What is the Creative Labs box and it's purpose?


It's an external 24bit usb soundcard that hooks to my Samsung Q1 tablet PC (my HeadUnit). I'm using 5 of the 6 channels with a software DSP.

Channel 1-2: >450Hz for Midrange/Tweet passive crossover feed
Channel 3-4: 125Hz -> 450Hz for Midbass passive crossover feed (bi-amping F1 Status crossovers)
Channel 5: <125Hz for Sub feed


----------



## Fus1on

Ah ha, very "Creative" ... pun fully intended


----------



## BowDown

Tru Tru. I haven't done a carPC since prbly 2003 in my Focus. Software has come along way. I like the idea of having full crossover, eq, ta, and other tricks available with a few keystrokes. Also MP3, CD, DVD, FM, Bluetooth, and Internet Radio is a plus too.


----------



## Niebur3

Lookin Good!!!


----------



## BowDown

Grr.. running into an issue with my USB hubs. If the power supplies are on before you connect it to the PC you're set. If you connect the PC and power it up before the hubs power up on their own it starts pulling madd power from the PC USB and none of the USB devices work due to lack of power.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

By the way, that trunk latch and downward hinging setup is brilliant IMO. I like the cherry too, I've been saving some nice pieces of curly cherry for a future install. I was going to use it on my F150 before I sold it...

And there's no wood trim in any of my other vehicles, drat!


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. I'm going to work on the new latch cover/trim piece today during lunch. CarPC bracket should be done this weekend. Then it's back to a bit of fiberglass work on the stereo bezel. 

I don't have any other wood in my car. Figured it would be a nice accent piece.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Thanks man. I'm going to work on the new latch cover/trim piece today during lunch. CarPC bracket should be done this weekend. Then it's back to a bit of fiberglass work on the stereo bezel.
> 
> I don't have any other wood in my car. Figured it would be a nice accent piece.


I think this use is brilliant because it's in the trunk and out of sight so it really doesn't need to match, and when you flip down the amp rack most people are probably expecting to see bare MDF and messy wiring...

In the truck my subwoofer box was designed to be under the seat inside the cab, so the trim would have been visible all the time. The stereo bezel and all of the dash trim was faux burlwood (gotta love an old Lariat, perhaps the original "luxury truck" :laugh, so I was going to stain the cherry to match as closely as I could.

It's mostly the latch that inspires me, you could almost pass it off as OEM (except for how good the audio is). OEM integrated to say the least. Have you used some kind of gas strut, or does it just swing down freely? Something to consider, it could perhaps protect the equipment from the sudden jolt if you or someone else unwittingly bumps the latch.


----------



## BowDown

Well the latch requires a screw driver, or key to release. There's no real way to bump it. I actually purchased a heavy duty storm door closer cylinder to try out. The main reason for this is a typical gas cylinder wants to push away from a closed state. This would actually force the amp rack down at a faster rate. I figured the door closer would kind of dampen the swing of the amp rack, and when it's fully extended just act as a catch. 

Right now the amp rack will swing down via gravity, so I have to guide it down. Once down it will swing completely vertical. Not ideal cause the cover will try to pop out. :lol: The air cylinder will be mounted soon. Just wanted to finish all the wiring before adding another object to work around. 

Worst case I will just run a catch strap on each side and guide it by hand. 

I was beating my head during design trying to think of something that would work as a latch. I was thinking a snowmobile hood strap system on each side of the amp rack.. till I noticed it would be pretty tight quarters and the amp rack might still move because of the rubber straps. Searching eBay for 'latches' gave me the idea of a 80's Taurus trunk latch. Worked out great re-using the stock trunk light location for the catch.


----------



## BowDown

I made a rookie mistake with my accessory circuit. I took about 15A worth the load between (2) 5v DC-DC converters, power antenna, 12v DC-DC, 19v DC-DC... and wired it into the accessory + feed off my Metra Axxess interface module. Was fused but didn't matter because the circuit was not designed to handle 15A load and I burnt out the Metra box.  I should of known better... most of a HU's load comes from the continous feed. Oh well. Falls into the live and learn category. 

To correct the issue I'm not going to use any of the stock wiring except to tap into the steering wheel controls. I'm going to run a 10GA + feed from the battery to a 30A relay. The relay will get its coil power from a T-Tapped Accessory circuit. The relay will then output to a dedicated 6 circuit fuse block (I bought at summit racing), then each device I have added to the car will run off a fused circuit. No worry about overloading any stock circuits.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Nice thing about the door closer is it's adjustable. If you got a real nice one, it will have a separate latch speed adjuster, too. Either way, that should fit the bill nicely.


----------



## BowDown

Mine has an adjustable relief valve.. that's about it. It will work well till the weather gets cold. I know my storm doors on the house slam closed if the weather is below 0. :lol:


----------



## mellephants

Woah, you're still at this? Hell yeah!!


----------



## BowDown

Haha. Just looked back. It's been a year and a half! Wow. (3) different systems since then (not including the stock). At least on the plus side it's gotten better with each change?

There wont be a 4th. The wife will kill me before that happens. :lol:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Mine has an adjustable relief valve.. that's about it. It will work well till the weather gets cold. I know my storm doors on the house slam closed if the weather is below 0. :lol:


Your amp rack may have enough weight to counteract that. If not, add another amp.


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Your amp rack may have enough weight to counteract that. If not, add another amp.


One way to find out! Don't know that I would ever let it go down naturally anyway. Even with the 32 screws holding the piano hinge. :lol: 25lbs or so of expensive equipment. 

Ha see comment above. This system is 'IT'.


----------



## BowDown

Started the new latch cover/trim piece. Took some 4/4 poplar and cut/ripped it to size. Then planed it to 1/2". I proceeded to kerf the wood to allow bending. Then I created a bending block to simulate the latch piece. Tomorrow I will use some resin jelly in the cuts and clamps to form the bend (more of a bend than shown). Afterwards I'm going to cut out the shape.


----------



## BowDown

New dedicated Accessory fuse block came in!










Also jigged/resined/clamped my new latch cover/trim piece. Tomorrow after it cures I will cut the final shape, quick sand, test fit.. then if time wrap it in carpet.


----------



## mellephants

I know that trim piece isn't load-bearing, but after you test-fit, why not throw a thin layer of glass & resin on it for strength?


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> I know that trim piece isn't load-bearing, but after you test-fit, why not throw a thin layer of glass & resin on it for strength?


Ya the thought crossed my mind to brush a milkshake mixture into the cracks to help strengthen it. I'll see how strong it is after the curing process.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Ya the thought crossed my mind to brush a milkshake mixture into the cracks to help strengthen it. I'll see how strong it is after the curing process.


Yup. IMO, do it. I never can get myself to trust anything that has been kerfed and bent... but then you're the expert on that, not me


----------



## turbo5upra

How much for the canoe????


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> How much for the canoe????


1-million-dollars


----------



## BowDown

Lunch updates:

After examination I figured some resin and a layer of cloth on the backside will help. 











Also transferred my carPC mount bracket templates to steel and drilled/cut them out. Came out nice. Need a little dressing. Going to fab up the cross pieces Sunday.


----------



## mellephants

Sweet, good to see you strengthened it.

Do you have a thread about your carpc? I'm curious about how usable the sound settings and filters are. Does the carpc have functionality for stuff like EQ, crossover, time delay, as well as conveniences like steering wheel control inputs, etc?


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> Sweet, good to see you strengthened it.
> 
> Do you have a thread about your carpc? I'm curious about how usable the sound settings and filters are. Does the carpc have functionality for stuff like EQ, crossover, time delay, as well as conveniences like steering wheel control inputs, etc?


No thread as of yet. Once I get the unit mounted I will make a thread about how I did it.

In a quick description the PC is a Samsung Q1 UMPC running XP Pro SP3, 1.1ghz processor, wifi, bluetooth, 2GB RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, 7" Touch screen. It has 2 USB Ports that each run to a powered Hub. First hub has the steering wheel control module, wireless keyboard receiver, WinTV USB FM Tuner, Samsung DVD-RW. Second Hub has just the Creative Labs 24-bit 5.1 USB Soundcard (high bandwidth requirements), and USB cable to console USB port for memory sticks or whatever. 

For software I'm running Foobar2000 as the media player along with various DSP add-on modules for processing. Also use Virtual Cable Adapter to port all other windows sounds through Foobar2000's DSP. 

DSP has independent Left/Right 30band graphic EQ. Full Crossover w/up to 8th order slope, time alignment, level controls, along with a ton of other DSP options I don't need like dolby surround, reverb, stereo width adjustment, filters...


----------



## mellephants

****, sounds awesome. With so many low-power solid-state devices around nowadays, it seems silly that I haven't set up a carputer yet. Is Windows still the way to go, or does good Linux software exist, too? Last I remember, Linux was pretty far behind with audio processing, unfortunately.

BTW, this discussion is related to your build, right? If not, feel free to ignore, and stop me from derailing the thread.


----------



## BowDown

Ha it's ok.

I didn't find a linux or android option that would work for me. Most of the issue is finding compatible hardware. The software prbly exists somewhere to do a full DSP but with the unit I had it was just much easier to stick with XP and run proven software/hardware. I know my soundcard, and steering wheel control module wasn't Linux compatible.


----------



## mellephants

Yep, makes sense. Even though I run Linux at work, on my home server, on my HTPC, and on my phone, I would probably use XP as well. Another reason for me to use Windows is that I have windows-only tuning software (SCT PRP).


----------



## BowDown

Small updates from yesterday. Spent most of the time helping Turbo5upra build his new box/amp rack. But I did fight with the welder and got some tacks on my carPC bracket. Once I get some more time I will run some nice looking welds. Also got the 10ga + feed to my new accessory fuse block in the dash. (no pics)


----------



## BowDown

Found a home for the new accessory fuse box circuit! Going to put a couple mechanical fasteners in it along with the 3M tape. Will also insulate the + post in case it does break free.


----------



## mellephants

Perfect


----------



## BowDown

Bracket is finish welded. Just need to wire brush, prime and paint. 

Also did some wire work on the new fuse block devices. More pics tomorrow after install.


----------



## turbo5upra

I nose' those aint yer welds... those look decent


----------



## BowDown

Ha. These welds were with a functional welder. It was setup for a heavier gauge steel though. So the wirefeed was a bit aggressive. They are nice and strong though.


----------



## BowDown

Figured creating a list might keep me more focused. I didn't write down every detail, but here's the list for those that are curious. :lol:


----------



## BowDown

Well I descided on the inner wall of the glove box. Should work well. Might create a cover for it.

Fuse Block:









Rats Nest (so far). Got the FM Tuner, and (2) DC supplies secured down:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Coming along nicely.


----------



## RoscoeM

Dam this is a clean and nice looking build man.


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Have most of the wiring cleaned up now in the dash. The wiring should be finished today during lunch, and I'll get a couple coats of paint on the bracket.


----------



## BowDown

Got the fuse block wired up. No matter what I do I can't seem to make it look clean? Prbly shop for a more enclosed block to swap it out with. Relay is secured out of sight but accessible. 

Still have more wiring to do.. but found a nice home for the carPC power supply, and usb hubs. Still have to finish securing them down.


----------



## BowDown

Bracket gets painted today, and wiring finished up. Going to eliminate a USB hub from the mix. I want the soundcard exclusive on a usb port. No worries about disconnecting during cranking, and backfeed. I bought some diodes to try out to fix the hub issue on the other port.

Also bought a subscription to Pandora One. Awesome little app that manages your playlists and streams 192kbps. Now I hope my 3G hotspot on my droid can provide enough bandwidth to stream. Like my own internet based sat radio.


----------



## BowDown

Bracket painted, some more cleanup in the wiring dept. Prbly another hr to go there and I'll be happy. 








LOL


----------



## Fus1on

Slight overkill on the bracket hanger lol


----------



## BowDown

Fus1on said:


> Slight overkill on the bracket hanger lol


 Only thing I could find to suspend it from. (toys are fun)


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

On the bright side, if you ever want to paint the whole car you could probably suspend it from the same arm.


----------



## leepersc

BowDown said:


> Got the fuse block wired up. No matter what I do I can't seem to make it look clean? Prbly shop for a more enclosed block to swap it out with. Relay is secured out of sight but accessible.


Hey buddy, have you thought about using one of those project boxes to enclose your fuse block? Works like a charm for me. Good luck!

-Scott


----------



## BowDown

leepersc said:


> Hey buddy, have you thought about using one of those project boxes to enclose your fuse block? Works like a charm for me. Good luck!
> 
> -Scott


Ya I believe that's the route I'm going. Just need to find a hobby box with the correct dimensions. Was hoping to stumble upon a plastic case of some kind that hinges open like a stock fuse box. I know my electric shaver came in a similar box.


----------



## BowDown

Came in last night and did some more work. Got the wiring buttoned up. Bracket mounted. Screws to hold sub drilled out. Sub mounted. Bezel cut to allow bracket in (will clean up). Mocked up carPC mount. Created a DVD-RW tray.


----------



## mellephants

looks good

think about how long the answer will take when someone is riding with you and asks "What did you do to the dash?"


----------



## BowDown

Well ideally things wont look way out of place. I like to keep as much hidden as possible. I thought of flush mounting the PC in.. but it just wouldn't work out... the build-out would be large, cooling would suck, pain in the butt to remove it, and i would have to wire up a trigger switch to turn it on.


----------



## mellephants

Yeah, definitely. That's why I mentioned it. Most passengers would probably just notice that it isn't stock... since there will be a computer screen and a computer cd tray. Then they might ask "what did you put in the dash"

And then you can say anything from "a stereo" to a 3 hour conversation explaining the whole process, including the subwoofer and etc. 

(by the way, why not use a slot loader? are they too expensive?)


----------



## BowDown

Most of the slim USB2 DVD-RW's offered are either top load, or tray load. Didn't see any offerings for slot. For the amount of use the drive will actually get I figured the tray load was fine. 

Ya, I believe a quick overview would be enough to overwhelm people.. but I'm more than eager to tell someone how everything works. Beauty of doing everything yourself.. you know how it works.


----------



## BowDown

Lunch updates today should include piecing in the other piece of plywood, and sanding down the edges on what I already installed. After that it's onto fiberglassing tomorrow.


----------



## BowDown

Very productive lunch hour today! Awesome!

I cut/shaped/glued/screwed another filler piece on the bezel. Then sanded down the piece I put in last night to match the profile.

I then trued up the edge on the latch cover trim piece and then cut it to length/width. I cut up the original piece I did and used it as a template. I then transferred it to the piece, jig saw/belt sanded it. Afterwards I then matched the curves on both ends of center. Small amount of filler on the ends and the center and she'll be ready to carpet! 

Going to fiberglass both pieces tomorrow during lunch.


----------



## turbo5upra

Wow... see what can get done when you don't have the co-workers helping you out on the back seat of the car?


----------



## BowDown

Is that really the best you can come up with?


----------



## BowDown

Had to play with warranty repair work on the car during lunch yesterday so no fiberglass updates. Will have some today after lunch.


----------



## BowDown

Got some glassing done today. Used a combo of 2/3rd short hair fiberglass, and 1/3rd liquid resin to fill in the gaps on the backside of the radio bezel. Then took resin jelly and filled in the front gaps and kerf cuts on the latch cover bezel. 

I will continue with another thin layer of short haired fiberglass on top of the bezel to add some strength. Shouldn't take much to blend the section in.


----------



## BowDown

Sanded both pieces and applied a hot coat of short haired resin milkshake. I touched it one too many times as you can see. LOL. I used painters tape to edge off the milkshake and cover the CD-ROM hole.


----------



## BowDown

5-14 Updates:

Cleaned up the fuse block wiring a bit. Still looking for an enclosure.










Wiring done.










HVAC duct blocked with 1/4" Plywood w/gasket tape, and aluminum backed duct tape.










Bezel coat #1 sanded










Coat #2 applied


----------



## BowDown

5-15 updates:

Bezel coat #3 applied









Coat #4 applied (icing)



















During lunch today I will finish feathering out the icing coat, and do some minor spot filling, sand one more time (wet), and then shoot it with some primer.


----------



## BowDown

CarPC things are changing. Kinda sucks.. but it's all in the name of SQ. My creative labs 5.1 USB sound card is becoming a little flaky and I believe it's got some odd artifacts when being pushed. Not to mention it's not ASIO compatible. So I'm ditching it for a new Gigaport HD 8-Channel ASIO USB sound card. Figures this sound card uses RCA connectors and not 1/8" stereo.. so I also ordered (3) KnuKonceptz Krystal Kable 2 Channel 1/2M Twisted Pair RCA cables. Nothing like blowing another $160. Hopefully this corrects the issue.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> CarPC things are changing. Kinda sucks.. but it's all in the name of SQ. My creative labs 5.1 USB sound card is becoming a little flaky and I believe it's got some odd artifacts when being pushed. Not to mention it's not ASIO compatible. So I'm ditching it for a new Gigaport HD 8-Channel ASIO USB sound card. Figures this sound card uses RCA connectors and not 1/8" stereo.. so I also ordered (3) KnuKonceptz Krystal Kable 2 Channel 1/2M Twisted Pair RCA cables. Nothing like blowing another $160. Hopefully this corrects the issue.


Sigh. Heh. Well at least you are discovering it so those that copy your setup won't have to go down the same road


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> Sigh. Heh. Well at least you are discovering it so those that copy your setup won't have to go down the same road


This is true. Glad to be the guinea pig. Guess if the sound card doesn't fix the issue I'll have a 6 channel sound card available for ya cheap. :lol:


----------



## n_olympios

Well done on changing out the sound card. Creative is very good for surround or gaming, but for real hi-fi it just doesn't cut it.


----------



## BowDown

Just tried out my bargain basement 6.5" midbasses that looked good on paper.. but they SUCK in reality. :lol:

So I bought a pair of Peerless 830946 SLS 6.5" Woofer - 4 ohm.


----------



## BowDown

Got a good bit done during lunch today. 

Took a forester bit and hogged out some material to allow the carPC bracket to rest in. Also have to relief cut a spot for the plastic gusset on the vertical piece. Then bored 2 holes behind the bracket piece to allow cables to come through the bezel. 1 USB on each side, power on the right side. The carPC bracket leaves about 1/4" space behind it for the cables to sneak out.

Also notched the blocks on the back of the trim piece to allow for the LED strip trunk light, and used a power sander to knock down the majority of the high spots.

She's almost there!


----------



## n_olympios

It's starting to take shape, great! 

Hey, I've got a pair of CDT mids just like that in the last photo! (Actually they're borrowed).


----------



## BowDown

n_olympios said:


> It's starting to take shape, great!
> 
> Hey, I've got a pair of CDT mids just like that in the last photo! (Actually they're borrowed).


Ha, thanks. Part of me wishes I could mold the bracket in.. but it's just not possible without a huge bulge. Simpler is better in this situation. 

Those CDT mids I bought way back in the day. One has some surround issues from hitting the door card in my focus. Eventually I will get around to replacing the surrounds.


----------



## BowDown

Wow these things are massive! Hope they fit in my doors.


----------



## TheScottishBear

Great build. The dash sub is crazy. lol


----------



## tintbox

Lookin good.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Getting soooooo close, man. I think you're almost to the "mess with the dash mat and try to make it look normal" phase.


----------



## turbo5upra

So peerless drivers continue to impress me. from the 10$ ones in my doors to the sls in his car. Shocked with the sound from his carputer so far.


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Getting soooooo close, man. I think you're almost to the "mess with the dash mat and try to make it look normal" phase.


Got a plan for that tomorrow.


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> So peerless drivers continue to impress me. from the 10$ ones in my doors to the sls in his car. Shocked with the sound from his carputer so far.


Thanks for the hand. 

Ya the peerless do sound impressive in both vehicles. I would of went with the $10 ones myself if they were still available.


----------



## BowDown

5-22-2011 Updates!

Got the new SLS midbasses installed. OMG I love them! Also got the fasteners drilled out for the trim piece.


----------



## BowDown

5-23-2011 Updates:

Took the whole day off to work on the car. Didn't get as much done as I would of hoped. Seems to be the case. Anyway I first tackled the amp rack. The hot glue I used to secure the LED strips didn't work out. So I took off all the glue, then used 1x1 stick on tie downs w/1/2" screw in the middle... then cable tied the LED's in. Next I removed the old soundcard.. then discovered the new soundcards RCA jacks are too tight to fit my RCA ends... so I took it apart and used a step bit to open the holes. Works great now! After some debate with the stereo bezel piece I got talked into taking more time with the primer and such and painting it. Came out pretty nice.. it's not perfect.. but damn nice. Also removed/primed/painted the strip above the glove box to match. I filled/carpeted the trim piece. Turns out I didn't have as much carpet on-hand as I thought. So the backside of the piece is less than stellar. Going to re-carpet it after the show. Applied grill cloth to the sub grill.


----------



## req

impressive man! 

looking forward to having a listen!!


----------



## BowDown

Me too! Going to get the new USB extension cable during lunch today. Have high hopes for the new soundcard.


----------



## turbo5upra

Happy I twister yer arm to paint? lol


----------



## BowDown

Well it's ready for the show. Got everything hooked up, and reassembled. Wires are pulled through the bezel like they should. All controls are set. The bezel piece is stress cracking a small amount. Really sucks! Guess after the show it will get wrapped in the CF vinyl or some kind of fabric.


----------



## BowDown

Can't see it in the dark pic.. but the background on Foobar2000 is a perfect color match to the illumination on my dash.


----------



## Notloudenuf

Nice work man.


----------



## BowDown

Thanks. Found a new EQ plugin and will correct the artifacts I'm hearing. Really excited to try it out during lunch. 

Still have a few things to do before considering it 'done' but it's come a long way.

-Create a carpet cover for sub box, or carpet the box itself. (not sure yet)
-Recover the radio bezel w/CF vinyl or fabric
-Recover latch cover trim piece w/1 piece of carpet
-Enclose Acc. Fuse block
-Fish USB ext. cable through center of car (need to pull up carpet in rear area)


----------



## chefhow

Very excited to see and hear this on Sunday!! What time are you guys arriving in Balt on Sat?


----------



## BowDown

We should be on the road about 3PM at the latest. Have a family cookout to attend before we leave. So if there's no traffic issues we should arrive about 9PM @ the hotel.


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Nice work man.


You should make the Baltimore trek!


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Thanks. Found a new EQ plugin and will correct the artifacts I'm hearing. Really excited to try it out during lunch.
> 
> Still have a few things to do before considering it 'done' but it's come a long way.
> 
> -Create a carpet cover for sub box, or carpet the box itself. (not sure yet)
> -Recover the radio bezel w/CF vinyl or fabric
> -Recover latch cover trim piece w/1 piece of carpet
> -Enclose Acc. Fuse block
> -Fish USB ext. cable through center of car (need to pull up carpet in rear area)


If you carpeted the box to match the dash cover, I think it would stick out too far on the front lip. In other words, I really like the vinyl wrap, especially because it still shows great if you ever remove the dash mat.


----------



## Fus1on

It looks nice, good luck at the show


----------



## eviling

I had the pleasure of listening to this car down in MD in the Baltimore show, and I loved the originality in this system, nobody at the show had as many original thought as this car, and it was the only carputer in the whole show that i'm aware of. idk how he did i the winning but I perosnaly loved it.


----------



## thechainrule

So pissed I couldn't make the show. I have a similar setup in my Jeep too. I would have loved to take a listen.


----------



## eviling

theirs another one down at the same shop on july 17th i think it is.


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> I had the pleasure of listening to this car down in MD in the Baltimore show, and I loved the originality in this system, nobody at the show had as many original thought as this car, and it was the only carputer in the whole show that i'm aware of. idk how he did i the winning but I perosnaly loved it.


Thanks for the kind words man.

I made a mistake setting the gains that cost me a **** ton of points. I set my gains quickly using music I listen to.. I didn't think that they might have a gain built into the recording. When the judges used their test CD's they are recorded in 0db gain. So in turn my system couldn't go loud enough to complete some of the tests. 

That and I have some tuning issues to work through. Was only able to do a quick tune before going. 

I will be going to another show.. but not the next one. Too close and have alot of things going on in the month of July.


----------



## tintbox

That what shows are all about you take everything in then evaluate everything. The show was a good time and I came away with all kinds of things I need to work on as well. It was nice meeting you.


----------



## BowDown

tintbox said:


> That what shows are all about you take everything in then evaluate everything. The show was a good time and I came away with all kinds of things I need to work on as well. It was nice meeting you.


Ya it was a great time. Kinda wish I stayed for the competitor eval.. but it was after midnight as it was when I got home. 

Your system was pretty stout overall. Was amazed how far back you can sit from your stage. Man I should of had one of those vehicles when I was in high school. :lol:

What was that track from Korn Unplugged you were showing me?


----------



## tintbox

Throw me away. Get drums in the beginning.


----------



## BowDown

I noticed when I muted the sub, and lowered the midbasses down to 20hz highpass that I actually got more lowend output than I did when running the sub. Goes to show there might be some phasing issues brought on by TA. Going to try and throw more power at the sub after I iron that out.


----------



## BowDown

tintbox said:


> Throw me away. Get drums in the beginning.


Thanks man. 

Congrats on the 1st place! Sucks you had the midrange issue during ur Iasca run.


----------



## tintbox

Thats tuning when you change something for the better you have pulled from something else. You gotta love tuning!


----------



## BowDown

Tru Tru. These peerless SLS midbasses are like mini subs. They reach deep into the 50hz range before rolling off. Might have to re-eval the crossover points. :lol:


----------



## turbo5upra

yeah... Mike has a nice box.:surprised:


----------



## BowDown

Just ordered an RTA setup. Should aid in my tuning battle... 

TruRTA software
Dayton Measuring Mic
10ft Cable
Low-Profile Mic Stand
Mic Clip
Mic Mate XLR-USB Adapter

$175 shipped


----------



## chefhow

turbo5upra said:


> yeah... Mike has a nice box.:surprised:


That just sounds so wrong yet I can't stop laughing.


----------



## Mic10is

chefhow said:


> That just sounds so wrong yet I can't stop laughing.


and you would definitely know how nice his box really is...

Oh wait, that was me who helped him stuff his box Sat night..


----------



## turbo5upra

I tried.... I thought mike would enjoy it.... glad to see others did too....lol




chefhow said:


> That just sounds so wrong yet I can't stop laughing.


----------



## BowDown

Lol. Nice.


----------



## turbo5upra

Mic10is said:


> and you would definitely know how nice his box really is...
> 
> Oh wait, that was me who helped him stuff his box Sat night..


Someone pass the bleach... I need to pull what little of a brain I have left out and scrub it.


----------



## BowDown

Tuning is underway. Keeping the sub OFF, and dropping the midbasses down to 20hz->450hz has been great for tuning. I noticed some TA issues, along with LEFT/RIGHT gain issues. 

I got in touch with the creator of the Time Alignment plugin and he programmed a couple custom features for me. So now I can sweep the TA range using pink noise instead of keying in every value.


----------



## BowDown

Just discovered today that my plugins for FooBar2000 were totally messed when I was at the show.

Mid/Tweet were time aligned.. but midbass, and sub we not getting aligned. Also the midbasses were running mono ala Right channel feed. 

Wow something is really messed in the software.

Going to try downgrading versions, upgrading the soundcard drivers, and if that doesn't work chat with the guy writing the plugin. 

Makes me feel better about my scores.


----------



## tintbox

From what I see it means correct said problems. You found them and are now correcting them. That's the fun and the heart ache in this sport.


----------



## turbo5upra

not to bring sad things up again but mike... you handled the rca thing rather well if I do say so myself!


----------



## Mic10is

turbo5upra said:


> not to bring sad things up again but mike... you handled the rca thing rather well if I do say so myself!


its like a divorce, you learn to handle it better the 2nd time around....only this time it wasnt at finals.










There are about 20 trash cans, mailboxes and windows near The Darkside that say he could have handled it differently..LOL
JKG!!!:laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Mic10is said:


> its like a divorce, you learn to handle it better the 2nd time around....only this time it wasnt at finals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are about 20 trash cans, mailboxes and windows near The Darkside that say he could have handled it differently..LOL
> JKG!!!:laugh:


:lol:


----------



## BowDown

tintbox said:


> From what I see it means correct said problems. You found them and are now correcting them. That's the fun and the heart ache in this sport.


Ya really.

I'm curious to see what kind of impact (positive) this is going to make on the overall sound.


----------



## BowDown

Well today I have gotten back into more fab work. 

After the show and seeing the flaws in my software/tuning I have decided to go completely active. Given the tube driver is a 5 channel and I have 7 speakers.. that's not going to work. I don't want to have amps outside of the created amp rack.. so the tube driver has to go.

I found a crazy deal on some awesome old school Aura MR series amps.. I actually owned the same amps in my 3rd system about 10yrs ago. Wicked clean AB power.

So the breakout is going to be as follows:

MR 2150 (2x150 watts):
-1/2 Midbass

MR 675H (6x75, or 3x150 watts):
-1/2 Tweeters
-3/4 Midrange
-5/6 [Bridged] Subwoofer


So I'm gaining 75watts each in the midbass, 75 watts in the sub, and doubling the power to the midrange/tweeter because they are no longer sharing a channel. So effectively I'm doubling power all around.


I also changed my DSP software from foobar2000 to Console w/VST plug-ins. This gives me alot more control over the setup. 

Look for more updates this week!


----------



## BowDown

Just came up with a pretty sweet idea for refinishing the Aura amps.. The paint is a bit scratched up on the top, and 1 of the amps is missing the plexy cover... What about taking a 5.5" strip of cherry veneer and going down the center of the amp, then just cut out the area where the gain/crossover controls are. I still have extra stain left from the cover piece. Might give it an expensive look for under $15. 

Thoughts?


----------



## brad0069

Great idea! I think that would look very clean and classy, and it fits with the rest of the rack.


----------



## BowDown

Me too!


Did some wiring today, and layout work. Also installed my StreetWires 90deg RCA adapters into the soundcard. So glad I got a killer deal on them. Complements to Syracuse Customs. Damn things are like $20/pr.


----------



## SLICKDSG

Very NICE !!!!!!


----------



## garrett2r2taz

a pilliars WIN!


----------



## Bampity

From beginning to end(pictures mostly)both threads... Damn.
That is some dedication.
Very nice.
I know there's supposed to be a conclusion to this story but I'm expecting not.
It's like twist after twist after twist...
In the beginning I was all 
"damn, that's a sweet trunk install but... there's 15... more... pages...?"
"oh minor upgrades, fans, drivers... oh he's changing everything..."
Suddenly there's a sub in the dash. I'll go see that now.
"Damn, that came out better than I expected. Back to the SQ install."
"Oh. My. God. He's got it done. He finished it."
2 pages later...
"He's changing everything again... should've expected that." LoL
Frickin awesome.
No complaints here.
:2thumbsup:


----------



## req

cool stuff man! looking forward to having more seat time next time 

ill have new amps in my ride soon as well lol. new stuff all the way around for lots of people now huh?


----------



## BowDown

This is true. The project that never ends. :lol:

I'm ditching the soundcard and software DSP for a H700. This will free up some CPU power on the headunit, along with give me reliable tuning. 

The veneer came in for the amps. So I will have to stain/poly that soon. The amps are mounted down, wired, and almost ready to install back into the car. 

I'm going to get Syracuse Customs to wrap the carpet on the sub box prbly next week. Hopefully she'll be operational again soon.


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> cool stuff man! looking forward to having more seat time next time
> 
> ill have new amps in my ride soon as well lol. new stuff all the way around for lots of people now huh?


Any time man. It sounds like a completely different system with all phasing issues worked out. 

What do you hope to get from changing amps? Find any work around for the H701 issues you were describing?


----------



## req

I have some noise issues im tying to get rid of. I have had the Memphis amps for quite a while now and for competition I think I can do better. Besides I have to remake the floor of the amprack because the mdf is not holding screws like it used to. So two birds with one stone, double the power the Memphis amps have and the price was right. I hope to be able to sell my amps and recoup some equity out of them you know =]


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> I have some noise issues im tying to get rid of. I have had the Memphis amps for quite a while now and for competition I think I can do better. Besides I have to remake the floor of the amprack because the mdf is not holding screws like it used to. So two birds with one stone, double the power the Memphis amps have and the price was right. I hope to be able to sell my amps and recoup some equity out of them you know =]


Very cool man. Hope to meet up with you at the SYR show in sept?


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> This is true. The project that never ends. :lol:
> 
> I'm ditching the soundcard and software DSP for a H700. This will free up some CPU power on the headunit, along with give me reliable tuning.
> 
> The veneer came in for the amps. So I will have to stain/poly that soon. The amps are mounted down, wired, and almost ready to install back into the car.
> 
> I'm going to get Syracuse Customs to wrap the carpet on the sub box prbly next week. Hopefully she'll be operational again soon.


Are you using the 701 to control the 700, or can you just do manual setup and then keep the carpc in charge of everything?


----------



## BowDown

The H700 I'm buying is basically the same thing as a H701 w/RUX. So I will be using the H700 setup w/controller to do all DSP processing, along with volume control and audio source switching. The soundcard from the carPC will hook into the optical IN on the H700. 

So the carPC will just become a source unit. No processing needed.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> The H700 I'm buying is basically the same thing as a H701 w/RUX. So I will be using the H700 setup w/controller to do all DSP processing, along with volume control and audio source switching. The soundcard from the carPC will hook into the optical IN on the H700.
> 
> So the carPC will just become a source unit. No processing needed.


That should be a good configuration; I would definitely prefer that to DSP'ing on a carpc. I wouldn't be happy without discrete physical buttons for commonly tweaked settings; this is especially true for volume control.


----------



## BowDown

Amps are secured down. Power/speaker wiring done. Just waiting for the RCA's to arrive tomorrow. Going to stain the veneer tomorrow as well. But this is more a preview.


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> That should be a good configuration; I would definitely prefer that to DSP'ing on a carpc. I wouldn't be happy without discrete physical buttons for commonly tweaked settings; this is especially true for volume control.


This is true. The touch screen is a PIA. I was tunneling into the carPC via a laptop to make most of the changes.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


>





BowDown said:


>





BowDown said:


>


The stained cherry and black mesh looks great over the aluminum amp. Refresh me, why did you bother with the plexiglass? Swapping the plexy for black mesh would look better and provide better ventilation.


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> The stained wood frame and black metal grilles look great. Refresh me, why did you bother with the plexiglass? Swapping the plexiglass for black metal grille would look better and provide better ventilation.


Mostly because I didn't have more mesh on-hand. The old amp that was in there had active cooling. I have a cooling idea that I'll show later in this thread.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Mostly because I didn't have more mesh on-hand. The old amp that was in there had active cooling. I have a cooling idea that I'll show later in this thread.


That makes sense.  Be very careful, though, I had an amp die on me when I was venting it on the intake and exhaust of its active cooling system. I had three xtant amps bolted to the top of an enclosure with nothing covering them
























for awhile, then installed a 40mm fan at each end, and plexiglass covering the top, with slots cut out for the subwoofer vents. My airflow plan was:

cool air in -> [40mm fan] -> [xtant 301a] -> [vent 1] -> [xtant 302a] -> [vent 2] -> [xtant 301a] -> [40mm fan] -> hot air out

The 301a that was on on the hot side died, and I couldn't find another one to replace it, so I wound up selling the good 301 and the 302, and switching to a pg 400.1 & jbl p180.2. Long story short: I won't cover an amp with plexi again.


Anyway, what was your source for the mesh (I assume it is expanded metal)? I was planning to find a sheet of metal that has been perforated with lots of small holes, but I am thinking now that I'll want to use expanded metal instead.

Kind of like this



JOey Knapp said:


>


----------



## BowDown

The mesh actually came with an aftermarket bumper cover for my old ford focus. Just happen to have it laying around.


----------



## MTopper

love the look of your amp rack. your wood working skills are pretty amazing too


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Wouldn't go that far.. but I've learned alot over the years.


----------



## tyroneshoes

You can get the expanded metal at home depot. I think they come in 2x3' size. Its not black but a little spraypaint and youre good.


----------



## mellephants

tyroneshoes said:


> You can get the expanded metal at home depot. I think they come in 2x3' size. Its not black but a little spraypaint and youre good.


thanks.

BowDown, sorry for sidejacking


----------



## BowDown

Got the H700! 3m taped the sound blaster soundcard to it. Also used some mounting bases on each of the ports to help secure the connections. My new radio bezel came in as well!


----------



## BowDown

Lunch hr updates!

Bye Bye Sony POS:









Mounted the H700 to the bracket using 1/4" double-sided foam and sheet metal screws:

















Mocked up:


----------



## BowDown

Did some work last night. Got the amp rack back in. Wired up the ground/pos feeds. Fished the H700 controller wire. Mounted H700 to car and started wiring that. Also soldered up the other 1/2 of the speaker harness quick disconnect. 

Just picked up a used DVA-7996. Oy it doesn't stop! I hope after this recent batch of changes I can be really happy with the setup. :lol:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Mounted the H700 to the bracket using 1/4" double-sided foam and sheet metal screws:


Can you explain how the Creative thing is mounted to the Alpine thing? It almost looks like the two are fastened directly together, which seems a bit reckless and, well, unlike you... So I maybe I'm seeing it wrong.

Also, how "live" is that metal bracket? I'm speaking both electrically and acoustically. I know you've decoupled the Alpine somewhat from the bracket with foam glazing tape, but your screws are still giving you a rigid, metal-to-metal connection. Perhaps without a sub (or a gorilla) in the truck, the vibrations are less of a concern, but it still seems like you might create multiple ground paths by grounding the chassis of the component like that. If it works, it works, I'm just wondering if/how you have addressed that, or why it is not a concern.

What I've typically done in this context is laminate a sheet of 1/2 or 3/4" MDF to the mounting face of the bracket so it is stronger, less flaccid, and a flatter surface. The MDF of course would be treated for water resistance, or you could use sheet HDPE/plastic. I secure the MDF with liquid nails, hold it in place with clamps while it cures, and generally use a few small wood screws from the back of the metal. Then I secure to that instead of the metal.

I don't know if any of that is necessary, it's just a precaution I generally take. The MDF could be carpeted or otherwise finished if it will be visible. The question of attaching directly to metal may create a grounding issue, but I'm not sure this is a concern in most modern equipment. My real concern is simply that thin metal tends to deflect quite a bit and jostle things around inside the case.

Just food for thought, no criticism intended. Excellent use of space, as always.


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Can you explain how the Creative thing is mounted to the Alpine thing? It almost looks like the two are fastened directly together, which seems a bit reckless and, well, unlike you... So I maybe I'm seeing it wrong.


The Creative Labs thing is the USB soundcard for my carPC. I ditched the 8 channel soundcard for my original soundcard because of the optical out. So I used some 3M tape to secure the soundcard to the H700. The H700 is in OK condition on the top, so I'm not worried about any adhesive damage. I have a good bit of room behind the side wall carpet so I figured why not keep the soundcard close to the processor. The USB cable is already run back there. As is the line-in for the FM tuner. 



TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Also, how "live" is that metal bracket? I'm speaking both electrically and acoustically. I know you've decoupled the Alpine somewhat from the bracket with foam glazing tape, but your screws are still giving you a rigid, metal-to-metal connection. Perhaps without a sub (or a gorilla) in the truck, the vibrations are less of a concern, but it still seems like you might create multiple ground paths by grounding the chassis of the component like that. If it works, it works, I'm just wondering if/how you have addressed that, or why it is not a concern.
> 
> What I've typically done in this context is laminate a sheet of 1/2 or 3/4" MDF to the mounting face of the bracket so it is stronger, less flaccid, and a flatter surface. The MDF of course would be treated for water resistance, or you could use sheet HDPE/plastic. I secure the MDF with liquid nails, hold it in place with clamps while it cures, and generally use a few small wood screws from the back of the metal. Then I secure to that instead of the metal.


I understand your concern. The foam tape was there to help decouple the H700 from the car. I originally used self tapping sheet metal screws to hold down the H700 but I'm going to swap them out for plastic screws/nuts to ensure no ground loop issues. The unit will not be seen so there's no need to make a carpeted panel. All about clean wiring, and function at this point. 



TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Just food for thought, no criticism intended. Excellent use of space, as always.


Thanks man. I wish I had room in the amp rack.. but the Aura's are HUGE.


----------



## BowDown

As it stands I'm going to have 3 devices inputted into the H700. 

CarPC via Optical 1
DVA-7996 via Optical 2 (DVD/CD Only  )
DVA-7996 via RCA Line-in (FM/MP3 CD/XM)

Wish the DVA would upconvert.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> ...I understand your concern. The foam tape was there to help decouple the H700 from the car. I originally used self tapping sheet metal screws to hold down the H700 but I'm going to swap them out for *plastic screws/nuts* to ensure no ground loop issues. The unit will not be seen so there's no need to make a carpeted panel. All about clean wiring, and function at this point...


Thought of zip ties? You have no idea how many components I've installed with zip ties. In fact, one of my corner marker headlights has been held in place with zip ties for four years now, installed from the back side so you'd never know. I'm sure you have some on hand...



BowDown said:


> Thanks man. I wish I had room in the amp rack.. but the Aura's are HUGE.


Indeed. Sounds like you've thought it all out though, I was just curious.


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Thought of zip ties?


In order to zip tie it down I would have to wrap around the whole thing. The holes in the H700 are slotted. So there's no real grip unless I install those stick down mounts. 

I really don't need any screws on the unit. The adhesive on the double-sided 1/4" thick foam tape is crazy.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Ah, I see that now.

On that note, if you can get your hands on some curtain wall tape, it's about the stickiest stuff I've seen. It's CCF with adhesive designed to hold the glass panes in skyscrapers and other commercial buildings, I've used it on windows in areas with 80+ MPH winds and it holds up fine. Holds glass, aluminum, steel, etc. Clean both surfaces with rubbing alcohol for maximum grip. But yeah, what you've got is probably adequate, even sans screws.


----------



## BowDown

H700 is wired in minus an optical cable I had to order. Also ordered some ABS plastic to fill in the sync display area on the new radio bezel. 

The new PC adjustable mount is in mockup stages. Pulled the sub out so I can rip off the vinyl and make way for the new carpet. Also changes to the wiring are done to accommodate the Alpine DVA-7996. Going to need to create a custom stereo mounting bracket because of the sub box bracket sharing the same mounting point. 

Amp rack is back in and wired up. Just need to re-carpet the bezel. Lots of things in motion.. look for more pics in the coming week. 

She's on the home stretch!

Wife is cracking the whip financially now.. good thing I have the hardware to pull off what I want. Just hoping everything works in harmony when I fire it up. I can't blame her.. as you know this project has went on a long time. Consuming alot of time/money. Back to the house project after this summer.


----------



## BowDown

Grr. During mockup I discovered the Scosche Radio bezel located the din openings about 1/2" higher up than the Metra. Now my HU wont fit without cutting apart the bezel. Sun-of-a.. I bought the better bezel because there would be LESS modification needed.


----------



## Fus1on

If it's not one thing, then it's another ..... I know that one too well


----------



## BowDown

Tru Tru. I broke down and ordered the Metra bezel. Will make life easier, but the wallet didn't like it.


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Tru Tru. I broke down and ordered the Metra bezel. Will make life easier, but the wallet didn't like it.


I'm telling the warden!


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> I'm telling the warden!


Didn't your mama tell you no one likes a tattle tale?


----------



## Sound Effective

Hello, greeting from Puerto Rico.
Nice job, a pillar A+ nice & clean.
My recommendation is, use audigy nx2 but this descontinued or vantec nb-200u with audio control lc8. Have a better sound for SQ. 
Good Luck with this proyect. God Bless!


----------



## req

If your dva has an ainet output on it, then run that back to the 701 right with your optical and it will autoswitch between analog and digital when you switch to tuner or xm from cd or dvd. And you will be able to control the volume/bass/fad/bal/defeat of the 701trunk thru the headunit.

Its a wonderful thing!


----------



## BowDown

Actually I just ran the cables today.. I'm going to have the optical and a pair of RCA's for the H700. I will just get used to using the H700 controller as the volume for both the carPC and DVA headunit. Will make life easier in that aspect. 

I'm taking Friday off from work to get the system back up and running. Saturday I'm going to Syr Customs to have them carpet my sub box w/their industrial glue.


----------



## turbo5upra

Use ur own glue.


----------



## BowDown

Man glue?


----------



## BowDown

The plastic loom pieces going down the passenger front door trim piece are going today during lunch. There just isn't room for the factory run, optical, usb, 1/8" stereo cable, rca cable, remote wire, and H700 controller cable, and 3 pairs of speaker wire down there with it. :lol:


----------



## BowDown

Alright. The wiring has been redone on the passenger side for my carPC, DVA-7996, and H700 w/controller. Fun times, but I'm happy with the turn out.

I have 3 pairs of speaker wire, optical cable, usb cable, 1/8" stereo cable, 1 pair of RCA's, remote turn-on and H700 controller cable. 


Trunk:

















Passenger Side Rear:









Passenger Side Front (had to remove stock wiring harness plastic shell to gain more space):















25ft Optical Cable FTL. LOL.









Dash:











Tomorrow I will have updates with the sub/carPC mounting bracket changes. Friday I took the whole day to hopefully button things up. Saturday the box is getting carpeted, and more tweaks done.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Dude,
The amount of cable your having to run and pull really makes me feel good 
about the 24 some off signal cable I have to make and run. I followed your 
earlier installs/systems and this by far is right up there! You've come leaps 
and bounds without a doubt learning LOADS as you go, very inspiring!. The 
work your doing now is absolutely stellar, not just great gear but your 
attention to detail is great. :2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

I'm sure I missed it, but what are your thoughts about the Tube Driver? 
(forgive me if you've done a comprehensive review, if so you could just link it?) 
Can you give me a reference of what you could compare it to? They were a 
very serious consideration on a really short list of 'dream' amps for me and in 
the long run as you know I went with 8 channels of Blade SE. The killer would 
be a tube Blade but those are unbelievably rare. In the long run it came down 
to size and the lack of room in my 911. So, when you get a few extra moments 
could you do me up a little user review....

Cheers and have a great week, 
Scott


----------



## BowDown

Thanks for the props. Ya my attention to detail has went up exponentially with each revision of the install. Never thought I would be a techflex kinda guy... but it really does look nice and neat. 

As far as the tube driver blue goes... It's a very clean amp. I would have to say out of the 20 something amps I've auditioned/listened to it's the cleanest. But does it remind me of a home audio tube amp? No. Honestly I didn't notice any tube 'effect' or coloring in my sound. The tube driver in a 5 channel format had more than enough power for my needs and I'd still be running it if I had room to add another 2 channels... But I would have to say there is a bit of hype around the tube driver that didn't quite live up to expectations (as far as a tube amp goes, clean class A/B.. hell ya!).

When you find the amps on eBay direct from Butler they are right in line with other decent quality amps of comparable size. So in that case I would go back to a tube driver.. but would I keep it on the dream list? Eh I have woke up. :lol:


Sorry I cant be any more technical on it.. I didn't benchmark the amp. If there's any more info you would like just ask. 

Looking forward to firing it up tomorrow!


----------



## BowDown

CarPC bracket extension done. I had to extend the sub mounting bracket to now support the adjustable carPC mount ball.


----------



## BowDown

Not really impressed with the way the carpet came out. Miscommunication w/SYR Customs lead to them wrapping the carpet around the box instead of leaving it overhanging on all edges so I could put a matching edge cap on it.

The plastic shim between the 2 Alpine units is just temp...


----------



## chefhow

And now the $64,000 question, Are you happy with how its sounding?


----------



## blackknight87

holy crap my eyes are burning from 19 pages of this thread. but i like builds like this that takes me an hour to scroll thru. makes the work day go faster. 

Half the stuff time i dont even know wtf you are putting in. but it looks cool

im about to go read the dash sub thread now too.


----------



## eviling

ahh, i really loved that little computer you had in their, was surprised at how acurate it was and responsive. 

is that 701 new? i would love to hear the difference. sorry if that's a silly question, i don't remember what you had, but i dont think you had it back in may.


----------



## tintbox

Nice. How does it sound?


----------



## mattyjman

glad to see this wrapping up... lots of work and finished product looks really nice. I bet that sounds stellar.


----------



## BowDown

Well as far as how it sounds... not quite there yet. Going to need alot of tuning. The sub hasn't been mounted in the car yet. So far so good on tuning just the front stage though. The computer will be put back into the car, just need to finish the bracket. Only difference is all processing will be done on the H701. No it's not new, but in a perfect condition. I just felt going to a hardware tuning solution would be more reliable than the software had proved to be.

Will have more pics to follow as I modify the radio bezel to accommodate the carPC. She's almost there!


----------



## BowDown

mattyjman said:


> glad to see this wrapping up... lots of work and finished product looks really nice. I bet that sounds stellar.


Me too. It will sound awesome. Just take some time to tweak all the speakers/parameters at my fingertips.


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> ahh, i really loved that little computer you had in their, was surprised at how acurate it was and responsive.
> 
> is that 701 new? i would love to hear the difference. sorry if that's a silly question, i don't remember what you had, but i dont think you had it back in may.


I will be at the Sept 3rd show in Syracuse, NY. You should make the trip.


----------



## BowDown

What about blending the radio bezel into the dash color:

Current:









Monochrome:


----------



## jorgegarcia

Monochrome, all the way. Makes even the sub enclusure blend better with the dash. IMHO.


----------



## BowDown

jorgegarcia said:


> Monochrome, all the way. Makes even the sub enclusure blend better with the dash. IMHO.


Ya that's the way I'm leaning as well. If I cut the flap off the center of the dashmat I will have material to seam in a small flap on the left side of the box to blend the sub box in better.


----------



## BowDown

Cut out the filler piece from ABS plastic. Also started trimming off pieces I need to clearance. I ended up nicking the piece.  but I can fix it. Here's the filler piece in place. Bought the glue during lunch.


----------



## BowDown

Also bought paint that closely matches the vinyl color on the dash.


----------



## eviling

ahh, i meant new to you  not new. 

I might swing by, we'll see how things are with money, that's 200 miles and i'll be back in school than working full time. so that'll be tough.


----------



## bigdwiz

I have gone through this entire thread tonight and have been very impressed. If anyone deserves "Rep Power", BowDown does! I can't believe his rep powa is so low compared to the work he's done and information he's shared on the forum. I think it is only fair for us to give those Rep who deserve it....no doubt this cat does! 

My 0.02


----


----------



## BowDown

7-22 (Birthday updates):

Got the bezel clearanced, filler piece glued in place w/plastic weld adhesive, first coat of icing over the area, bracket fab finished, bracket painted, subwoofer mounted, grill mounted, box mounted, wired, dash mat cut, more tuning done on the car... Was a pretty productive 95 deg day!

Rotated the sub to get fresh meat for the screws. Can't see sub through anyway.









Grill mounted.


----------



## BowDown

Bezel clearanced & glued. First un-sanded coat of icing.

















































Bracket done.









Drive home. Can you see my stage?


----------



## BowDown

OMG. I have the biggest grin on my face. Today I fished out the wires for the carPC and decided to hook it up for the first time w/optical and H700 processor.. IT SOUNDS PHENOMENAL. Cleanest sound reproduction I have ever heard. The impact was awesome, the imaging was near spot on.. I can't believe this is mostly the same system as before. In the picture I removed the HU to get the wires for the carPC. I do need to order longer cables now that the carPC is higher up. I think it's a bit tilted. I have alot of adjustablity with the new mount. It makes the PC much easier to use as well.


----------



## mellephants

sweet


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> sweet


Hell ya! Tomorrow I'm going to work on smoothing the bezel. Then I have to create the HU mounting brackets. Then the front is done! After I re-carpet the amp rack trim piece the fab work is DONE.


----------



## BowDown

veritasz34 said:


> Love what you have done..Some very good ideas presented in this install..Great job...


Thanks man. I try to think outside the box. So far it's paid off.


----------



## BowDown

Been riding the bike the past few days, so not a whole lot of progress. I ordered new USB cables to reach the new carPC location. I also removed the carpet from the amp rack trim piece, and sanded off most of the glue. It's almost ready to re-carpet. I started fab on my new HU mounting brackets. I so wish I didn't throw away the first set I made. Would of saved me alot of time. Going to work on finishing those brackets during lunch today. 

I also found a great deal on a mint JBL BP300.1 amp. Not sure if I'm going to use it for anything.. but figured I may give an aura bass shaker mounted to the floor pan under my seat a try. Thinking if it's crossed over up to 35hz or so.. it might give the illusion of a larger sub. The sealed 10 kinda rolls off around 35hz. 

Outside of that it's been tweaking of the H700. She is sounding great at the moment! 

Stay tuned for more updates.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

I went back a few pages but didn't see, what did you use to wrap that grille? Is it just grille cloth? How did you hold it down to fit the contours?


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> I went back a few pages but didn't see, what did you use to wrap that grille? Is it just grille cloth? How did you hold it down to fit the contours?


Ya it's the same grill cloth as what's on the A-Pillars. It was spray glued (lightly) to the grill. I would imagine each year after the sun beats on it I may have to recover.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Well let us know how it's held up at the end of the summer, lol. I was actually thinking you could take some gray thread and stitch around that bottom contour to hold it snug. Unless of course you are worried about the fabric itself loosing it's elasticity over time...


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Well let us know how it's held up at the end of the summer, lol. I was actually thinking you could take some gray thread and stitch around that bottom contour to hold it snug. Unless of course you are worried about the fabric itself loosing it's elasticity over time...


Ya that could be an idea. I have noticed that the fabric does 'relax' a bit in the sun. The grill will come off without too much trouble. It's just friction fit in because of the carpet. Tis a tight fit without the bottom bracket. No resonance either.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

My other thought would be contact adhesive instead of generic spray, if the stitching proved inadequate.


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> My other thought would be contact adhesive instead of generic spray, if the stitching proved inadequate.


As long as it goes on thin enough. I was worried about clogging up the holes and creating a pressure cavity underneath the grill. :lol:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> As long as it goes on thin enough. I was worried about clogging up the holes and creating a pressure cavity underneath the grill. :lol:


This is a worthy concern. Might end up with some unwanted fourth-order bandpass effects.

:laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Or projectiles into the windshield. :laugh:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

With practice, you could probably aim it at the passenger.


----------



## BowDown

Well damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess I should of just modified the Scosche bezel.. cause I had to cut this one up. The sub now sits 1/4" deeper into the dash than before.. must of not been fully sealed the last install.. so I have to cut the opening larger. I'm thinking that both bezels are abs.. so I will cut and graft a section from the scosche bezel onto the metra. In the mean time I clearanced the metra bezel accordingly.

What do you think? HU at bottom, H700 controller at top, and middle divider bar between? Or HU bottom, controller directly on top, and fill in the gap above the controller?


















Hole for the carPC mount is actually center and round. It's just icing that extended over the hole that I didn't clean up yet.


----------



## BowDown

Just realized I had done the mockup before using the Scosche bezel. Ya this is the ticket! Going to cut out that opening section and graft it onto the Metra.


----------



## chefhow

Looking good Billy Ray!!!!


----------



## BowDown

chefhow said:


> Looking good Billy Ray!!!!


She's getting there. On the home stretch. Going to finish the HU mounting brackets during lunch, and work on cutting out the piece to graft into the bezel.


----------



## BowDown

chefhow said:


> Looking good Billy Ray!!!!












Wanna go horse back riding on a mountain trail?


----------



## BowDown

Alright. Outside of a few holes to be drilled (forgot my drill bits, doh!), the brackets are done! Cut up a LVL hanger. Figured it was close to what I needed. Good way to blow $6.


----------



## trojan fan

BowDown said:


> Wanna go horse back riding on a mountain trail?



My horse or your's:laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Only Chef can ride on my horse. :laugh:


----------



## turbo5upra

‪Family Guy - Brokeback Mountain from the point of view of the horses‬‏ - YouTube

saddle up partner.


----------



## MHLY01

Love the sub work


----------



## BowDown

HU Brackets are done and mounted:











Also measured, cut, trimmed, and fitted the donor piece for the radio bezel. Going to glue it in place today during lunch.


----------



## BowDown

Bezel mocked in place. She'll work out great! I have some adjust-ability in my brackets to get the opening perfect. Controller fits great on top of the HU (no pic).











Started gluing the pieces together. Stuff sands nice once cured so the sloppy application is no worry.


----------



## BowDown

Lunch update:

Amp rack trim piece has been re-carpeted. Looks much better the 2nd time! Amazing what you can do when you have a big enough piece of carpet.


















The pads wont be seen. The anchor bolts are just long enough.. with the carpet on the pads I would have a hell of a time grabbing threads to secure it down.


----------



## Notloudenuf

lol I have ridden past JW Jones Lumber Co. before. Funny it made it all the way to NY.

I'm confused why you cut out the center of 1 dash kit to fit in the center of another dash kit. Seems (to me) easier to just fill in the top of the silver one. I dunno. 

Either way it looks good.


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> lol I have ridden past JW Jones Lumber Co. before. Funny it made it all the way to NY.
> 
> I'm confused why you cut out the center of 1 dash kit to fit in the center of another dash kit. Seems (to me) easier to just fill in the top of the silver one. I dunno.
> 
> Either way it looks good.


Well it turned out neither bezel actually fit correctly when using 2 dins worth of equipment. I had originally bought the silver one because I liked the curves better, and the fact the opening was smaller so you didn't have to use the din trim rings... but the hole was in a different spot because I used the red bezel to mock up last time I had a HU. So I bought the red bezel again.. but it turns out that opening was off about 1/2" (instead of 1" on the silver). So I had to choose a bezel to use.. Given I had already modified the red one to accept the carPC mounting ball/bracket I figured the easiest thing to do was to take the silver opening section out and graft it onto the red because the red one was larger to begin with (cause you need the trim rings).

The whole thing of making lemonade out of 2 lemons. :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> lol I have ridden past JW Jones Lumber Co. before. Funny it made it all the way to NY.


This is true. Not too many stair (hardwood) vendors out this way.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> What do you think? HU at bottom, H700 controller at top, and middle divider bar between? Or HU bottom, controller directly on top, and fill in the gap above the controller?


any considerations for heat? I'd say the more free space around each unit, the better


----------



## BowDown

More lunch updates. Power sanded the bezel down. Gotta say I'm a happy camper! Just a quick sand and the pieces are blended really well. Going to hand sand a bit, and apply some icing tomorrow.

I also remounted the LED strips, and this time I started tech flexing the wiring.


----------



## BowDown

Took lunch hr and pealed off the rest of what I would describe as a plasticoat on the bezel. Not really a clear coat, kinda like a shelf liner. Fun times.. I also hand sanded the piece and applied a coat of icing. After tomorrow's work I should be able to proof it in primer and see what spots I may have to fix. Woohoo!


----------



## mellephants

What is the big hole at the top for?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## BowDown

mellephants said:


> What is the big hole at the top for?
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk












Allows the ball mount to poke through so I can attach my carPC mounting cradle to it.


----------



## mellephants

ahhh yes. Durr! 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## chefhow

BowDown said:


> Only Chef can ride on my horse. :laugh:


Giddie up cow girl!!!


----------



## BowDown

chefhow said:


> Giddie up cow girl!!!


:laugh: You making the trek up to the Syr IASCA show 9/3?


----------



## chefhow

BowDown said:


> :laugh: You making the trek up to the Syr IASCA show 9/3?


Cant, long weekend and I am going to Chattanooga to take my sons fishing and camping.


----------



## eviling

this has to be by far one of my faverate build logs, i always catch new stuff when i read this log. I just read it from beginning to end again  has always been a great inspiration. I'm gonna be doing an amp rack, ive been looking at ideas for things, and i remembered reaidng your log and seeing your rear deck mount and thought..you know what, that might be a fantastic ****ing idea :O i should do that. so that's why i was poking around  and i saw some of the updates. hope you have it ready before the seasons out so i can see it at another show.


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. 

Ya it's been quite the journey, but I'm really loving the state it's in now. Some finishing touches and she's done!


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> Ya it's been quite the journey, but I'm really loving the state it's in now. Some finishing touches and she's done!


sweet. i'm gonna start my shelf tomorrow, bright eyed and bushy tailed at 8 sharp thats me rocking the table saw and router at 8 in the morning  my neighbors love me  

got any tips you could share? im gona do a small shelf, maybe 8 inches tall and layer it i think. we'll see how things turn out, but i can't go to wide, gatta make sure i have room for the subs


----------



## BowDown

Was hard to see the areas I had to fill/build up so I put a couple coats of filler primer down. Not too bad. Little cleanup on the body line, and spots here and there.


























Yes I haven't cleaned up the hole yet. :lol:


----------



## BowDown

More updates from yesterday:

Coworker had a great suggestion. Use velcro to attach the wiring to the back of the amp rack trim piece. Worked well.

I also mounted the trim piece and tucked the wire ends. 

Found out I did have my Cont +, and Switched + wires reversed on the H700. That's why I had to load my settings every time, and was getting a turn-on pop. Doh! That's what I get for not having the original wiring harness.


----------



## scooter99

Damn it man, every time I see that thing I want to do my rear deck drawer more and more. I can't wait to get it done and in! I love the wood look of it! Looks soo sick! Nice work!


----------



## blackknight87

It never ends!


----------



## eviling

where did you get this latch?


----------



## BowDown

ebay. it was pulled off an 88 ford Taurus. I did alot of window shopping online to find one that would work for my configuration. the Taurus one was pretty flat in design and the auction came with the catch.


----------



## eviling

IM doing an amp rack like that


----------



## BowDown

its a fun project.

be sure to start a build log thread to keep track of your progress.


----------



## BowDown

8/22 updates:











Much happier with the latch mechanism. She closes so easy! I shimmed out the bottom 2 bolts 3/8" to better align the latch. Also used worm bolts on the top w/lock nuts all around to hold the latch down. This picture also gives you a good shot of how the latch works. The trim piece is all installed now and looking great! 

Today I'm going to remove the H700 from the stock amp bracket, install the carpeted piece of birch ply, and also going to mount my isolation transformers on the DVA-7996 analog RCA input. I figure isolating the HU from the H700 isn't going to do any harm and the transformers are just laying around. Might help with the slight turn-on pop. 


So the current to do list (as of this moment):

-Remove H700 from bracket, install carpeted board w/isolation transformers, reinstall H700
-Tape off and spray amp rack latch assembly black, install rubber weather strip to finish factory look.
-Pull out dash sub & bracket and install new (longer) USB cables, cable tie up new wiring.
-Finish sand/primer radio bezel & dash strip, paint, install pieces.
-Experiment w/Roxul behind door cards as an isolator.


----------



## scooter99

Just curious, how do you unlatch it? Is the white piece in there what you use to unlatch it? Maybe with a screwdriver or something like that? Just guessing.


----------



## BowDown

scooter99 said:


> Just curious, how do you unlatch it? Is the white piece in there what you use to unlatch it? Maybe with a screwdriver or something like that? Just guessing.












See the small hole (darker spot) in the center area of the trim piece? That's where I put in the key of my choice. I just use my house key most of the time. Anything flat like a screw driver would work. You just stick it in and turn. That unlatches it. Just gotta make sure you have a hand under it to guide it down.. otherwise it'll come down pretty quick. :laugh:


----------



## Notloudenuf

What is that carpeted build out on the right side held in with those 2 black clips?


----------



## BowDown

Actually dark gray clips, but that's where the stock Sony amp, and sat radio module lived. It now is the home to my H700 and Creative Labs sound card (reusing the stock bracket).


----------



## BowDown

Power wiring at the bottom of the H700 will be cleaned up if my back ordered Alpine wiring harness ever ships.


----------



## scooter99

Nice. Have you thought of using those, for lack of better terms, air shocks on each side. Just to help it drop slower and easier? I think it's sweet as hell the way you set it up. I'm doing a rear drawer too, but I'm having it slide out instead of drop down. Probably going to incorporate an actuator to slide automatically.


----------



## BowDown

scooter99 said:


> Nice. Have you thought of using those, for lack of better terms, air shocks on each side. Just to help it drop slower and easier? I think it's sweet as hell the way you set it up. I'm doing a rear drawer too, but I'm having it slide out instead of drop down. Probably going to incorporate an actuator to slide automatically.


I tried to use a heavy duty air cylinder from a storm door to dampen the fall.. it did nothing. It doesn't come down too often.. so I figure it's not that big a deal.

Very cool on the drawer. Look forward to following the build.


----------



## scooter99

Ah. Well regardless it loos nice. Nice job! Hopefully I can get some progress done on mine so you can follow. Been very busy lately. New schedule = no time!


----------



## BowDown

scooter99 said:


> Ah. Well regardless it loos nice. Nice job! Hopefully I can get some progress done on mine so you can follow. Been very busy lately. New schedule = no time!


I know the feeling man! Only real time I get is my hour lunch. :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Will be working on the bezel for the rest of the week. Hopefully she'll be ready for paint this weekend. 

So the current to do list (as of this moment):

*DONE*-Remove H700 from bracket, install carpeted board w/isolation transformers, reinstall H700
-Tape off and spray amp rack latch assembly black, install rubber weather strip to finish factory look.
-Pull out dash sub & bracket and install new (longer) USB cables, cable tie up new wiring.
-Finish sand/primer radio bezel & dash strip, paint, install pieces.
-Experiment w/Roxul behind door cards as an isolator.


----------



## BowDown

More fill/sand/primer. She's damn close!

Once I wet sand this coat I will have a good idea what imperfections are left.


----------



## eviling

I would just do a sandable primer from their, and use some glazing putty if i find something larger. 

im curiouse what kind of bondo you're using though


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> I would just do a sandable primer from their, and use some glazing putty if i find something larger.
> 
> im curiouse what kind of bondo you're using though


Ya, the filling should be done. Just filler primer and wet sanding from here.

USC Icing Polyester Finishing Putty

Stuff is great! Can build it up, cures quick and smooth, sands easy.


----------



## maKe|

I'm really interested of your CarPC setup but I'm having hard time to figure out few things.

Which device is doing the digital/analog conversion? SB or H701? Obviously the PC acts as a source and the SB as... transport passing the digital signal to H701 or as a DAC and the H701...? I got confused lol.

Are you using Foobar and playing bit perfect via ASIO or WASAPI? If not, you are missing alot. Windows Kmixer degrades the sound before it gets converted to analog. I don't know how it does it, but it's so easily noticed with my home setup that it's just stupid not to do bit perfect.

If I were you and the SB just acts as a transport passing digital I'd suggest HiFace asynchronous usb to spdif converter instead. Much much lower jitter than your SB card and mighty impressive sound. I use also PC as a source in my home setup and it's plugged to HiFace EVO that passes digital coax to Eastern Electric minimax DAC. 100% lowest jitter free digital passed to nice sounding DAC.


----------



## BowDown

I am doing usb to soundblaster, then optical to h701. I am just using windows audio from foobar. I will look into this bit perfect next time im at my pc.


----------



## maKe|

I don't know does you're soundblaster have native ASIO drivers, but you can get bit perfect playback with ASIO4ALL or WASAPI. Takes less time setup one than make coffee.


----------



## BowDown

In my experiences with asio4all it's junk. I despise all the patches, hacks, and such... that's why I bought the 701. Wen I enable the optical out for the soundblaster the windows mixer is disabled. The clarity out of the soundblaster is awesome. Granted if I was using it as my DAC I may have another opinion. Lol. At the moment im happy with the sq and am just trying to finish up the install. Thanks for the tips though.


----------



## BowDown

Progress on the bezel is going to be minimal this week. I'm focusing on cleaning up the tune for this Saturday's SQ comp. Going to try using some pink noise to TA. Then RTA w/no EQ. Dial in the EQ close with L&R the same. Then use sectioned pink noise to tweak L/R.


----------



## BowDown

Well I found out I had a big opps on my amps! I was out during lunch today adjusting gains up a bit to give me some headroom for the 0db IASCA material I'll be competing with.. anyway, I was getting ready to dial the midbass up a hair and was like WTF? Why is my low pass filter enabled? Ya, I was wondering why my vocals were a little shrill... Flipped the switch and HOLY ****. I actually have too much between 300-710hz now. Time to reset all the EQ settings and start over. Might also have to adjust crossover settings between sub/midbass as there is some cancellation because of the amps crossover changing phase on me. 

Good discovery for sure.. but means I gotta start over with my tuning!


----------



## quality_sound

You don't want the LP filter on your midbasses turned on?


----------



## BowDown

quality_sound said:


> You don't want the LP filter on your midbasses turned on?


Everything is running fully active on my H700. I had the crossovers on the midbass via the H700 set for 53hz -> 710hz. The amps LPF was set on 60hz. So my midbasses were pretty much doing nothing except assisting the sub.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

BowDown said:


> Progress on the bezel is going to be minimal this week. I'm focusing on cleaning up the tune for this Saturday's SQ comp. Going to try using some pink noise to TA. Then RTA w/no EQ. Dial in the EQ close with L&R the same. Then use sectioned pink noise to tweak L/R.


PLEASE do post your results on this. I HAVE NEVER been able to
use PN to TA my systems. Or I should say with my processors, that
is the one common factor. I have had GREAT results with an RTA 
and EQ/levels adjustment with several perfect scores. I'm just not
all that sure about the TA part, mostly because I've had very small
cars and depending on where the mic was placed that could drastically
alter TA figures and how your ear may pick it up differently.

BUT, that is with the old SONY XES P1,T1 that is very dependant on
math but more so on ear final tuning. 

really, detail your process if you would. I would like to try it......

cheers
Scott


----------



## BowDown

I have had good luck using my ears and pink noise to do RTA and eq left to right balancing. I do use an RTA and my ears to eq left and right together first. 

So basically what im going to do is level match each speaker using a db meter.

Then take my crossover points and stretch then so the bottom and top points lap the neighboring speaker. 

Then set my ta on the furthest speaker to zero. Using pink noise I will work the right midbass with the right midrange. Then i'll work the right midrange with the right tweeter. From there I will go back to the right midbass and bring in the left midbass. Once that is set I will do the left midbass to left midrange and left midrange to left tweeter. After all is done I bring in both midbasses and blend the sub.

After thus I can set the crossover points back and listen to some music. I may have to tweak the theaters. I have a hard time with those.

Now is where I would RTA the system with no eq and see where I should start making adjustments. If a whole crossover point is off I can lower the gain on the amp to make the curve more flat.

After this is done I tweak with music.

From here I use the sectioned pink noise and adjust left to right eq points by lowering one side to compensate for the other.


----------



## BowDown

Wow! Gotta say my midbass opps was really holding the peerless back. Just plain awesome.

Today I forgot my wet sanding paper, but figured I would finish scraping off the plasti-coat (factory) on the bezel around the intricate areas that I didn't primer. So I scraped it off with my fingernail, and cleaned it, and put 3 coats of primer on. After tomorrow's wet sand I should be pretty close to paint! Provided I remember the paper. Took the bike today, and completely forgot about the paper in my trunk. :lol:


----------



## BowDown

Alright. So I did the basic part of my tune last night. Gotta say I'm VERY happy with the results so far...

I used my phone as a quick RTA. Thursday I will setup my trueRTA and confirm, but by ear it's pretty accurate (except in the bottom register).

My method has changed a bit from what I typed out before. 

-Set the EQ flat
-Set TA to 0ms
-Set all Phase to 0deg.
-Expanded my crossovers a bit. I took the tweeters down to 2k instead of 4k, took the midranges down to 450hz instead of 710hz, and brought the sub up to 200hz instead of 56hz. This lap allows you to check with pink noise.
-Pink noise w/RTA to see any crossover sections uniformly loud. Tweeters had to come down a couple db as a whole.
-I used Pink noise to match the R-Midbass to R-Midrange, then R-Midrange to R-Tweeter. Then I matched L-Midbass to R-Midbass. Next I matched L-Midrange to R-Midrange. Followed up by L-Tweeter to R-Tweeter. Last I matched the Subwoofer to the L&R-Midbass.

After confirming with music I was pretty damn happy. Not a huge change from the old settings I had (flipped between old preset and new). But my old settings had the midranges out 180deg, and had some odd TA points where the new tune makes more sense to the eyes and ears. 

-Next I RTA'd again and noticed my 500hz was a bit low so I created a 1Q curve in the midbass EQ to make it a bit flatter. I also lowered 4k, 5k, 6.3k, and 8k by 3db to flatten the curve, and take care of the S's. 

She is pretty damn close! So far all my EQ and Crossover adjustments have been using L/R together. 

Thursday after confirming my curve using trueRTA I will break out the sectioned pink noise and do L to R EQ adjustments to perfectly center the image.


----------



## eviling

i cant wait to hear this in the allentown meet


----------



## BowDown

What allentown meet? lol


----------



## quality_sound

BowDown said:


> Everything is running fully active on my H700. I had the crossovers on the midbass via the H700 set for 53hz -> 710hz. The amps LPF was set on 60hz. So my midbasses were pretty much doing nothing except assisting the sub.



Ooooooh. You didn't say it was doubled-up so I was confused. Yeah, that'll do it.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> What allentown meet? lol


oh your not doing the PA, state finals? i thought you were


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> oh your not doing the PA, state finals? i thought you were


Na, I wont get to too many meets. I'm not even a member of either organization. Just doing it for fun.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Na, I wont get to too many meets. I'm not even a member of either organization. Just doing it for fun.


me too, but i could of sworn you said you were going :mean: I know REQ is going, and most the other guys from my area, howard, mic, josh, and tom, at least those are the ones i can think of, but bummed to hear you're not going  i'll have to catch you in NY i guess , theirs a show coming up isnt their up north NY? hmm


----------



## BowDown

This Saturday at 11:30 in Syracuse.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> This Saturday at 11:30 in Syracuse.


oh im in NJ this weekend, my dads birthday is this weekend, hiting the big 50, ya know how it is.


----------



## BowDown

Alright. Some L&R independent pink noise EQ'ing today during lunch. Then tonight I will install the primed bezel, new usb cables, and clean out the car for Saturday's show.


----------



## aV8ter

Awesome build you going on. The dash mounted sub looks incredible!


How do you like the 7996? What do you use it for since you have a carputer now? FM? Or do you still prefer it for disc playback?

I just picked one(7996) up off ebay since it was too cheap to pass up and I am thinking about installing it along with the c701 controller instead of a w505 I have here waiting to go in.


----------



## BowDown

aV8ter said:


> Awesome build you going on. The dash mounted sub looks incredible!


*Thanks man. I'm very happy myself.*



aV8ter said:


> How do you like the 7996? What do you use it for since you have a carputer now? FM? Or do you still prefer it for disc playback?
> 
> I just picked one(7996) up off ebay since it was too cheap to pass up and I am thinking about installing it along with the c701 controller instead of a w505 I have here waiting to go in.


*I really do like the HU. You are correct though.. I'm only using it as an FM tuner through analog to the H700, and CD through optical to the H700. I could do CD on the carPC, but it's just more convenient to use it on the 7996 because the optical drive is in the glove box. Seems like a great HU. Reminds me a bit of my 9835.. but not having used the imprint on it I don't know how well it works for tuning. Comes highly regarded in the SQ community though.*


----------



## BowDown

9/1:

Did some RTA! I did 3 runs.. I straight forward with the mic where my head would be, another 45deg left, and 45deg right.

Gotta say, the results speak for themselves! I love the way the car sounds...


----------



## BowDown

Ah prbly should caption the dips.. 

It dips at 160hz, 500hz, and 810hz...


----------



## BowDown

Went to another IASCA show 9/3. Did really well! Turns out Tom Shaw was in my class. Gave him a fun for his money... he scored a 242, I got a 230. Very happy with the sound.


----------



## eviling

230 is very good I scored a 215 at my last iasca and the 230's took place ay that sure


----------



## BowDown

There's a couple areas I might be able to improve on.. but I'm hesitant to change anything.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> There's a couple areas I might be able to improve on.. but I'm hesitant to change anything.


the best advice I can offer is to look at your best atributes and tweak them, of course not dampening your weaker performing aspects. say your doing 6.5's and your mids are doing a 7.5, than try and bring it all up, but focus more on your mids. thats just some of the advice ive been given, but perosnaly i like to try and tune for jamming rather than for the comp, i like an over all good quality rather than just having amazing mid impact with a **** high end. of course it doesn't work with that trade off but you get the idea.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Good scores....

Not to be Capt. Obvious here but,

Personally I wouldn't change a thing! I would least go to 1 or 2 more shoes
perhaps a greater distance from this past one to MAYBE get another SQ judge.
This way you can get a true comparison from someone completely different. Then
maybe you can better judge yourself what really may or may not be a true issue.


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> There's a couple areas I might be able to improve on.. but I'm hesitant to change anything.


Are you happy?
Yes?
Don't change anything

No?
Tweak what will make an improvement.

Problem solved. :laugh: Great scores BTW. Thanks for posting the judging sheet.


----------



## BowDown

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Good scores....
> 
> Not to be Capt. Obvious here but,
> 
> Personally I wouldn't change a thing! I would least go to 1 or 2 more shoes
> perhaps a greater distance from this past one to MAYBE get another SQ judge.
> This way you can get a true comparison from someone completely different. Then
> maybe you can better judge yourself what really may or may not be a true issue.


This is true. I plan to get in a show. Really the scores don't matter a whole lot. The car is my daily driver and I'm happy with it. I would like a lower sub extension, but it's a compromise going small sealed in the dash.


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Are you happy?
> Yes?
> Don't change anything
> 
> No?
> Tweak what will make an improvement.
> 
> Problem solved. :laugh: Great scores BTW. Thanks for posting the judging sheet.


Tru Tru. That's all that matters in the end.


----------



## turbo5upra

I hear the judge is an idiot and maybe ghey.


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> I hear the judge is an idiot and maybe ghey.


No wonder I got the shaft!


----------



## Mopar244DIY

Awesome commitment. Bravo ! This thread has held my interest from start to finish. How about a complete finished go over? Maybe a rehash of where your system is now and what you like (or don't like) the most about it. And don't forget ......... lots of pics!. Any guess as to the number of hours ? Must be a lot.

Great build. I hope you enjoy it to it fullest potential. You deserve it!

Mopar244DIY


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. I will get on that synopsis in a bit...

Got one more change in the works though. Only thing I'm not happy with is the sub stage. Turns out I had the specs on the driver wrong, and it has an almost 50hz F3 when used in 0.55ft^3 sealed. Now I know why I had to EQ the crap out of the bottom end to get a nice uniform sound. Well nice wasn't quite.. it's actually more over processed sounding. 

So after hearing one of Alpines new SWR-823D TypeR 8's I just had to get one. I'm going to adapt the baffle down and continue to use the 10" grill I have now. Should be a pretty easy swap out. This will give me an F3 closer to 30hz! Should be here by the end of the week.


----------



## BowDown

Figured I would make sure the bezel still fits. She'll be done soon.


----------



## BowDown

Will have a couple hours to work on it tonight. Should be ready for paint soon. Going to Lowe's during lunch to source some 2.5" diameter flex conduit and hardware for my port. The new subs tracking info says Friday delivery! So I might be rocking it Sunday morning.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> 2.5" diameter flex conduit and hardware for my port


cool idea


----------



## BowDown

Ya, with the waterproof grommet mounted to the box I should be able to install the port after the box without too much trouble. Going to run the port above the glove box a bit, then exhaust it down to the passenger-side footwell. If that doesn't work at least I can bend the port in a different direction.

More pics to come soon.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Ya, with the waterproof grommet mounted to the box I should be able to install the port after the box without too much trouble. Going to run the port above the glove box a bit, then exhaust it down to the passenger-side footwell. If that doesn't work at least I can bend the port in a different direction.
> 
> More pics to come soon.


you're giving me (bad) ideas, like:

two SWR-823D/843D's, in my spare tire well under a false floor with ~0.4 each, at 30hz or lower, with flexible ports venting into the cabin where the factory rear speakers used to be (right under the rear windows)

I've got a jbl bp1200.1, so power isn't an issue


Okay now I must forget this idea, and stick with a single sealed 12"


----------



## BowDown

Muuhahaha. Give into the idea. You'll end up doing it anyway...

I just got back from Lowe's. No flex in 2.5". Nor did they have any compression fittings that large. So I bought a coupler with a threaded end on it, nut, and a 10ft piece of SCH40. $13 well spent. Going to have alot of port tube left over.. but I can swap out lengths till I'm blue in the face. :laugh:


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Muuhahaha. Give into the idea. You'll end up doing it anyway...
> 
> I just got back from Lowe's. No flex in 2.5". Nor did they have any compression fittings that large. So I bought a coupler with a threaded end on it, nut, and a 10ft piece of SCH40. $13 well spent. Going to have alot of port tube left over.. but I can swap out lengths till I'm blue in the face. :laugh:


flex is hard to source? okay, another idea, three of them, sealed in 1cuft


----------



## BowDown

After looking at the modeling.. porting is the only way to go.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> After looking at the modeling.. porting is the only way to go.


Good to know. Haven't had time to model them, yet. I obviously would before buying or building anything.


----------



## NucFusion

Wish I had the guts to try the center mounted sub in my 2010 Fusion. Just not ready to do all the mods neccessary. Great looking build.


----------



## BowDown

Some mockup pics.

Finished port length.. no way to get it in.. so I bought a coupler. 









Looks like the terminals are going to have to be moved. 

















Barely fits over the glove box latch support bracket!










It'll work though. I also bought a radius-ed 90deg bend. I will run a straight piece from the box to the top of the glove box bracket, then start the bend and dump down into the passenger side footwell. More pics to come.


----------



## Notloudenuf

You should look for pump suction hose kinda like this Suction Hose, 2 In ID x 20 Ft, 79 PSI Max - Water Suction and Discharge Hoses - Hoses - 1ZMW6 : Grainger Industrial Supply
Lowe's may have some in the plumbing section but a plumbing or pump supply house will definitely have it. They will sell it by the foot off of a big coil.


----------



## BowDown

While that may work.. the easiest port setup to do is 2.5". If I run 2" I risk a louder port and need a longer distance to go.. The conduit should work out pretty well. Just is a pain in the ass working in the small confined area of the dash.


----------



## BowDown

New sub has arrived! Can start fabbing the baffle today.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Whats Up with the CDt-M6 in the background ?


----------



## BowDown

I've had those for quite awhile. I think about 8yrs... Bought 2 of CDT's classic 3-way component sets to keep up with my (2) TREO SSX 15's in the ZX3. I found em while going through my parents garage attic. The surrounds are shot.. was looking to repair em.


----------



## BowDown

Thinking of undermounting the new 8" sub without the rubber gasket surround on it. Just cut a 1/2" birch ply circle the diameter of the xtant sub.. then cut a hole large enough to allow the surround to poke through w/carpet on the adapter. Maybe put some gasket tape on the woofer to buffer between the metal basket and the wood? Thoughts?


----------



## turbo5upra

yes,.... gasket.... need something b/c that basket is the same height as the surround no?


----------



## BowDown

No. I'll get a pic.


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> yes,.... gasket.... need something b/c that basket is the same height as the surround no?


----------



## turbo5upra

at least you and it will have something in common... (underhung)


----------



## BowDown

Don't be jealous of my massive motor structure.


----------



## scooter99

What are you planning on putting over it? I have to go back and re read where you're putting it. Sounds like it would work though.


----------



## BowDown

Lunch updates! 

Got a **** ton done in 1hr. I removed the radio bezel, bracket, sub box, grill, sub, fiberfill. Test fit the 8" sub. Just as I thought it will need to be offset. I traced the xtant onto a piece of 1/2" birch plywood. Then using what I had for circles I drew an inside cut line that will reveal the sub surround and cone (leaving room for carpet on the baffle). Then I cut out both circles, sanded both cuts, and marked the holes to drill for the t-nuts! Tomorrow I will pound in the t-nuts, test fit the box, remove the terminal pegs and mock up for the port cutout.


----------



## MTopper

looking good so far.


----------



## BowDown

Debating between matching gray, or charcoal to help match the sub. Either way I don't think you're going to see it through the gray grill cloth...


----------



## scooter99

That's hella funny, I have the exact same colored desk with the same edging! I know it's not on topic, but funny anyway!


----------



## eviling

hybrid is coming out with an 8" sub soon, maybe look into that guy  the 6" sub from hybrid is surprisenly not even that expensive.


----------



## BowDown

No thanks. Check out the thread in sq about this sub. It really does sound larger than it is.


----------



## Kellyo77

I'm anxious to see what you think about the 8" in your car. Seriously considering one a well.


----------



## BowDown

Me too. Should have it back in the car by the end of the week.


----------



## BowDown

Had a short lunch, but was able to get some stuff done. Used the drill press to do a 2 stage drill for the nutserts. Tapped em in, and mounted the sub with 4 screws, and test fit it into the box.


----------



## scooter99

Trying to understand. Looks great by the way! How are you going to attach it to the box itself? Through the T-Nuts?


----------



## BowDown

The last 1/2" around the perimeter of the wood adapter meets the original baffle piece. So I'm going to prbly just make some counter sink holes and use wood screws to attach the 2 pieces. I thought of using nutserts in the original baffle, but I'm not sure there's enough meat.

Also by not perm modding that baffle I can always go back to a 10" sub.


----------



## Kellyo77

Would you just use some sort of gasket material between the new baffle and the enclosure? I like the idea of leaving it versatile for either an 8" or a 10".


----------



## BowDown

Well the carpet on the top of the enclosure wraps around the baffle, and when matted down actually seems to create a decent gasket.. but part of me says to use the 1/2" x 1/8" thick gasket tape between them. With the 2.5" diameter port the pressure in the box should be greatly reduced from the sealed version I previously had.


----------



## scooter99

Well done. Personally I'd use some cheapy weatherstripping between it. It sticks but if you ever go back to the other sub, you can easily take it off. Cant wait to see it in!


----------



## BowDown

Me too. No work today. I ended up scoring some free 3yr old laminate counter tops w/stainless double-bowl sink on Craigslist. So I spent my lunch hour picking that up.


----------



## mellephants

Great baffle, I'm sure this thing will sound awesome in the car - although it will sound different in drivers vs passengers seat


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man.

Ya the TA is the main difference between the seats.. but there is a bit of level adjustment and EQ differences too. I'm going to take a suggestion by Chefhow and reverse my tune under a new preset for the passenger seat. That when when I demo the passenger seat could be used.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> Ya the TA is the main difference between the seats.. but there is a bit of level adjustment and EQ differences too. I'm going to take a suggestion by Chefhow and reverse my tune under a new preset for the passenger seat. That when when I demo the passenger seat could be used.


yeah, I keep a mirrored TA preset for showing off to passengers on the road. Your situation will be more interesting, though, with the port over there. Bass might sound a lot better on one side. I'm guessing better on the passenger's side, but that's a wild guess


----------



## BowDown

I know some people like video clips... but here is a 1min clip of my system at 90% volume w/xtant sub...


----------



## n_olympios

Nice, although there seems to be something wrong with the music you're listening to. :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

n_olympios said:


> Nice, although there seems to be something wrong with the music you're listening to. :laugh:


Haha. Would you rather have some chic singing about a picnic? . Sometimes I just like some hard rock. Impact in the chest keeps the heart beating. :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

It's actually pretty cool with the staging. It's like the singer is about the size of a small kickball floating in the center of my dash screaming at me.


----------



## n_olympios

BowDown said:


> Haha. Would you rather have some chic singing about a picnic? .


LOL not really, but there's stuff in the middle too. 

J/K man, I'm fine with it.


----------



## BowDown

Mic on my phone turned Rebecca Pidgeon into Periphery!


----------



## Salami

BowDown said:


> I ended up scoring some free 3yr old laminate counter tops w/stainless double-bowl sink on Craigslist.


So your system will have everything including the kitchen sink!! Can't wait to see how you mold that into the dash too.


----------



## scooter99

Just make sure you don't criss cross the hot with the cold plumbing! LMAO! And make sure the water line is at least 8" - 10" away from any electrical outlet! HA!!! :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Well I feel like a moron.. 

I last measured the box using packing peanuts. I came up with an estimate of .58ft^3... Well it was way off when I double-checked it with water. I put a trash bag in.. which did leak a little but not bad.. and filled it with exactly (6) 1.7l tupperware containers of water. Will that = 10.2l which according to the calculator online is .36ft^3. Wow. WTF. No wonder my 10" small sealed sub struggled to go below 35hz. 










Guess with this change of events I'm going to seal the 8" sub. It'll fit right into the manufactures recommended box w/displacement. 


























Here's a few pics of today. I pre-drilled the mounting screw holes, and countersinks, and wrapped the baffle adapter w/carpet.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Well I feel like a moron..
> 
> I last measured the box using packing peanuts. I came up with an estimate of .58ft^3... Well it was way off when I double-checked it with water. I put a trash bag in.. which did leak a little but not bad.. and filled it with exactly (6) 1.7l tupperware containers of water. Will that = 10.2l which according to the calculator online is .36ft^3. Wow. WTF. No wonder my 10" small sealed sub struggled to go below 35hz.
> 
> Guess with this change of events I'm going to seal the 8" sub. It'll fit right into the manufactures recommended box w/displacement.


haha! well, that works


----------



## ecbmxer

I did the same thing. Used packing peanuts and thought I was at 0.8 or so when I built the box, turned out it was 0.63 exactly when I filled it with water (didn't think to do the trash bag inside mine, but it was out of the car so oh well).


----------



## BowDown

Almost there. Going to cut the port hole out today, run new wiring into the box, put in some fiberglass, mount the sub baffle down, then reinstall in the car.


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Almost there. Going to cut the port hole out today, run new wiring into the box, put in some fiberglass, mount the sub baffle down, then reinstall in the car.


port hole? thought your last post said you were sealing it?


----------



## BowDown

Wow quick reposonse eh?

I'm going to still run a port tube, but I will cap the end. The port will be 12.5" long which will increase my box volume to 0.45ft^3 which is an ideal Q enclosure.


----------



## slvrtsunami

so, let me get this straight. The port tube is not for making the enclosure a tuned port from a sealed, its just adding necessary volume?

Looks great by the way but will you EVER be done??


----------



## BowDown

Ha. Sub stage is the only thing I'm not completely thrilled with. Hopefully this is the ticket.

Ya the port will be capped so effectively it's just adding to the box volume.


----------



## BowDown

Alright. Sub is perm mounted to baffle adapter. Gaskets applied. Mocked up box extension tube and cut out the hole. Had to do some sanding by hand as I don't have a 2-7/8" hole saw, just a 2-9/16"... Mocked up the tube after cleaning the box. I tried to fit the box w/tube coupler attached but there's no way. So I'm going to have to notch the nut and with a few screws fasten the nut to the inside wall of the box so I can then just screw the port into the box after installation.

Need to install the fiberglass insulation, 2 new pairs of wires, and fasten down the sub baffle yet. Not as much progress as I would of liked. Looks like Monday might be the day to hear this thing. Still gotta buy the cap from Lowe's for the tube.


----------



## IBcivic

I'm likin' where this is heading....great job with the 2 tone carpet on the sub enclosure :thumbsup:


----------



## Salami

Hah!! Your sub enclosure has a boner!


----------



## IBcivic

Salami said:


> Hah!! Your sub enclosure has a boner!


So does your screen name....


----------



## Salami

Well of course, and a big one at that!!!


----------



## quickaudi07

This is very impressive build. ton of work, but it looks great!


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## BowDown

True.

Well I used some adhesive and glued the wires in, and also glued the ring down. I also used 4 screws against the tabs on the ring to take stress off the ring when removing/attaching the port tube. 

I also stuffed the enclosure with some R13 un-faced. As long as I'm happy with the glue after it cures I just need to make an MDF plug for the 2.5" conduit tube and I'm good. Apparently they don't ****ing make 2.5" Conduit end caps?


----------



## BowDown

Great progress today. I stripped back the wires inside and outside of the box. Terminated them to the sub and disconnect connectors. I also cut a proper length piece of conduit, glued the ends on, and also fabbed up a plug from poplar for the end. The sub is now screwed down to the box baffle. The security screws and bit I bought from PE suck! So I used drywall screws. All that's left is to put a piece of insulation in the port tube, and mount everything back in the car!


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## eviling

lol your getting really good at that sub box. it looks professionaly done. very nice.  but i still dont get why the type r? is it because of the size of it? what size is that sub anyways. :\


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## BowDown

Check out the thread in SQ about it. Then you'll know. 

I heard one first hand and it sounded awesome for a lowly 8" sub. 

They love small sealed, ported, and IB. Not your ordinary Alpine sub.


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## 3cyltrbo

BowDown said:


> Check out the thread in SQ about it. Then you'll know.
> 
> I heard one first hand and it sounded awesome for a lowly 8" sub.
> 
> They love small sealed, ported, and IB. Not your ordinary Alpine sub.


Mine wasn't even broken in when you heard it. 

literally it had about 1hr of normal use (with zero break in) 

imagine once it loosens up a bit!!!


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## BowDown

Can't wait. I will power mine up for the first time tomorrow during lunch.


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## BowDown

Well the tube is a bit long and is running into a dash obstruction that I can't do anything about.. is I'm going to have to build a shorter one and try again. Hope to finish up the new one after work. But I was able to get the sub in and hooked up despite the sub box sticking out of the dash about 1/2" :laugh: .

Initial thoughts.. sounds damn good. I think I lost a little impact, but I gained alot of what I was missing in the 30-45hz range. Sub does fall on it's face below 30 though.. but it is an 8" w/half the RMS rated wattage going to it. 

Should be able to loosen it up in the coming days.


----------



## jtedrick

Very impressive setup. I have a 1022d in my jeep that I love.

Thank you for your help on my issue, still contemplating that Aura.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Wow, I blinked and now you have a different sub. Too bad the Xtant struggled down low, I was surprised until I saw your actual enclosure volume.


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## BowDown

Ya she was getting suffocated. According to WinISD the gain was crazy around 50hz...


----------



## BowDown

Well everything fits well now that I built a 1.5" shorter extension. After 3hrs of play time on this sub I gotta say it's an awesome piece! Hell it sounds like a 12" sub! I'm only able to feed it less than 1/2 the RMS wattage (135 vs 350 rating)... I do have the JBL BP300.1, which I may try... but something about classD running @ 1ohm doesn't sound all that SQ? But for the power I have it really fills out the bottom I was missing with the choked xtant!

Now to get back to work on that radio bezel!


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## oldturd

Color match between dashmat, box carpet and painted grill is spot on. Contours of the box blend very nicely with the dash. Looking good!


----------



## GavGT

Very impressive install, well done!


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## BowDown

Thanks guys. 

The covering on the sub grill is the same grill cloth I wrapped the pillar pods in. The dash radio bezel is really going to seal up this project.


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## scooter99

Nice progress man! Way to go!


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## BowDown

Thanks. Been spending lunch hrs the past could days playing with the tune. The sub has introduced more seat vibrations...

Going to get back to the bezel next week. This week will be dedicated to tuning. RTA (again) on Sunday morning.


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## Orion525iT

BowDown, how does a pipe like that work in regards to volume? It seems to me you might still get some resonance in the tube section simply from compression of the air.

I could be totally wrong, it may behave just like any volume of air.


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## BowDown

Placed a digi-key order!

Bought the following for the (2) USB interfaces:















(3-pin shown, bought 8-pin plug)


Bought the following for DC Power:


















This should give me the parts I need to create the quick disconnects for the carPC. The plugs will be mounted into the steel sub/carPC bracket. Then there will be a corresponding hole in the radio bezel for the jack.


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## BowDown

Very happy with my tune.. and figured I should archive my settings on a spreadsheet just in case my H700 takes a dump.


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## BowDown

Cut off a USB header from a dead PC. Should work well for what I need. Now to get some small heat shrink to cover the pins, and solder the USB Cables together.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Very happy with my tune.. and figured I should archive my settings on a spreadsheet just in case my H700 takes a dump.


so bassicly you just softened the top end of your system, that's not to bad if it's playing good with just those simple tweaks,did you run an RTA to come up with those or did you tune my ear?


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## BowDown

eviling said:


> so bassicly you just softened the top end of your system, that's not to bad if it's playing good with just those simple tweaks,did you run an RTA to come up with those or did you tune my ear?


Well I did the Crossover settings, slopes, and TA by ear first. 

Then I RTA'd it and noticed it was a bit hot in the entire midrange spectrum so I lowered the midrange db level down as a whole. 

From there the mid/tweet transition was a bit hot... could tell by ear, but the RTA confirmed it. So I backed the 4k-8k range down till flat on the RTA. 

From there I sat in the car with sectioned pink noise and listened for center alignment with each of the EQ bands tweaking left and right EQ settings. 

After this was done I noticed the left midbass was a bit hot and seemed to tug my ear over by way of tactile vibrations and sound, so by ear I lowered the level down a bit. Then I'm where it sits. 

It's a completely different car than what you heard in Baltimore.


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## eviling

BowDown said:


> It's a completely different car than what you heard in Baltimore.


awwh man that make's me excited  can't wait to hear it next season!!! haha you wanna see changes you should see the toys ive been collecting :X haha i'm pretty revamping my entire system. hybrid audio front end completly, switchable rear fill from some bad ass DLS 7x10 3 way coax's, both them and the mid woofers bumped by 210 watts rms...mmm getting excited just talking about it :laugh: 

I can't wait to hear everyones changes though, andy made some huge changes this season but he never made it back out to many shows if any that i'm aware of? i believe he's been having issues with his 701.

edit - oh i wanted to ask, did you run truRTA on that? I have that program, i just got my mic stand, and cables this weekend. im quite lost with the proigram it's self, i mean i figuired a couple things out, but I dont have a way of pushing out the tone generator :\ is it worth getting an adapater to plug into my processor from my laptop or should I just use a disk? i'd have to manualy. I can't tune each speaker sadly though i can only do a general tune with the ms-8, at least untill I get the 3sixty.3 :X


----------



## Mopar244DIY

OK. Thats where you guys just lost me.


----------



## BowDown

I use trueRTA. Even though I could interface the audio from my laptop into the system I just use a CD with Pink noise. Pink noise is pink noise...

I learned how to use it from a thread on the net. Key is to take a straight on value, 45deg left, and 45deg right and merge. Otherwise your readings might be skewed.


----------



## BowDown

Opps, double-post.


----------



## BowDown

Mopar244DIY said:


> OK. Thats where you guys just lost me.


With the RTA stuff?

Real-time analysis. It involves using a measuring microphone, software, and some 'pink noise' which can be related to the static noise you get on older tv's when the cable is out. Pink noise is a generated noise of all the audible spectrum playing at once. By using the microphone and software you can measure the stereo's reproduction of this pink noise. Flatter the resulting 'curve' the more accurate the system is. (generalization. It's not really that easy.. but it's a good tool to check if there's peaks and dips in your systems response)


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## BowDown

Applied some heat shrink to each pin connector, then the group, then the group including the shielding tabs for the hell of it.


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## ecbmxer

Looks good! That spreadsheet is a handy way of keeping track of your settings. I often forget what is what within my presets and its a pain to have to scroll through everything and compare to be like, "oh this is the tune where I bumped up the sub crossover to 80Hz" or "this is where I cut 2kHz by another 2dB". I might make a similar spreadsheet.


----------



## BowDown

ecbmxer said:


> Looks good! That spreadsheet is a handy way of keeping track of your settings. I often forget what is what within my presets and its a pain to have to scroll through everything and compare to be like, "oh this is the tune where I bumped up the sub crossover to 80Hz" or "this is where I cut 2kHz by another 2dB". I might make a similar spreadsheet.


I can email you the one I based mine off of? I just removed the center channel boxes and shuffled a couple things around.


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## ecbmxer

Thanks for the offer, but I don't have as many EQ bands as you so I may as well just do it myself.


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## BowDown

Wires on the vehicle end are all soldered together. Off the back of the 8-pin mini-din connector I have a mini-usb, and a female usb end. From the other side (after determining length) I will have (2) male USB 90deg ends.


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## BowDown

Data cable fab is done! And it even works.. :lol:

Power cable will be done tomorrow. Soldering/heat shrinking these small wires is a pain in the ass!


----------



## blackknight87

Intense bro.


----------



## quietfly

Might not be completely on topic, but have you put any thought in to the bg neo 10? i'm still trying to get straight answers but supposedly it has range to 150hz, which would do WONDERS for my front stage.........


----------



## BowDown

quietfly said:


> Might not be completely on topic, but have you put any thought in to the bg neo 10? i'm still trying to get straight answers but supposedly it has range to 150hz, which would do WONDERS for my front stage.........


Well when I started this project the neo10 wasn't available. I read a review (I think here?) that states the neo10 can indeed get down to 150, but it needs a proper back enclosure to do so. The problem with enclosing these planars is it creates a wicked peak further up the freq response curve. If you can adjust crossover points to account for this it may be a great option.

To directly answer the question I'm not going to redesign the system for them. The pillars would be a bit too bulky.


----------



## BowDown

Also guess this is a good time to give a status update.

I received a pair of Dayton RS180's in a trade.. and figured they looked good on paper, why not try them. Well I'm glad I did. I didn't lose much at all bottom end, but gained a much cleaner response up top (700hz range). Really did wonders for male vocals.

I have been working on the house a **** ton the past couple months. Put in a concrete sidewalk, skylight, and totally gutted/rebuilt my kitchen. 

Sunday I should be able to continue my project.

My CarPC power adapter died. Cheap eBay ****.. so that will be replaced, the quick connector installed, and detail sanding done on the bezel and accent strip. She really is almost done and I'm very happy. Only issue is the midbass amp has a bit of a static noise from the left channel. May need to replace the amp in the future.


----------



## quietfly

How would you compare the sound of the neo 3/8 combo versus other high end installs you'd heard using traditional drivers. The reason i'm so interested is that these drivers seem to be a perfect match for my 6th gen (97) Honda civic pillars. I've been racking my brains trying to find a good way to get my H.A.T. L4SE's in the dash with out MAJOR modification and being really obvious. after running across your installs i'm very tempted to copy/adapt your methods. My biggest concern is with staging and placement. everything i've read says to place these(neo 8's) at ear level and even though I have an ms8 to handle my processing and TA duties i worry about the drivers being so close to my head (in the pillars) did you find this to be an issue at any point?


----------



## turbo5upra

I really prefer the upper range of the spectrum out of these. They seem very lifelike and detailed. I would love to try them in a home type setup.


----------



## BowDown

quietfly said:


> How would you compare the sound of the neo 3/8 combo versus other high end installs you'd heard using traditional drivers. The reason i'm so interested is that these drivers seem to be a perfect match for my 6th gen (97) Honda civic pillars. I've been racking my brains trying to find a good way to get my H.A.T. L4SE's in the dash with out MAJOR modification and being really obvious. after running across your installs i'm very tempted to copy/adapt your methods. My biggest concern is with staging and placement. everything i've read says to place these(neo 8's) at ear level and even though I have an ms8 to handle my processing and TA duties i worry about the drivers being so close to my head (in the pillars) did you find this to be an issue at any point?


There are a couple drawbacks to my placement... One is there is a slight cutoff of the left side. The stage is well centered, and is pretty much the width of the pillars.. maybe a slight bit wider on the right. But having the left driver off axis more than the right actually works out great for gain settings. There is very little level matching needed from the left/right. 

One word describes the planar combo.. Effortless.

I have heard a good amount of setups and none of which have made me want to go back to a cone. The planars are just so clean and clear. 

There are some drawbacks to my system.. with taller people the vertical dispersion takes effect and the system doesn't have the same response as when your head is lower in the car. It's not an issue for me.. but it did become an issue for a judge that sat in my car. And the stage width limitation of having the mids/tweets off axis in the pillars.. but crossing the neo3/8 combo over at 710hz is a great advantage in staging. I have a nice high stage regardless the freq. I never feel the stage getting tugged down.


----------



## BowDown

If I had it to do all over again I would try to put the left pillar a bit more on axis.. This might increase the stage width a bit. Other than that she sounds great, and I'm not going to be tearing it out any time soon.


----------



## quietfly

thats great to hear! where upstate are you? i'd love to get to hear your setup some time.


----------



## BowDown

Just outside of Utica, NY. Looks like I'm about a solid 3.75hr trek from the city in your signature. If you're in the area and I'm free I'm more than eager to show it off.


----------



## quietfly

well if i'm ever in the area i'll shoot you a pm! thanks again for the advice.


----------



## turbo5upra

we are having a show this winter.. I need to get the payment sent out for hosting the event. There will be several members there and I'm sure a demo wont be out of the ?


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> we are having a show this winter.. I need to get the payment sent out for hosting the event. There will be several members there and I'm sure a demo wont be out of the ?


This is true. Car will be open for demo's at the show. Check the 12v Meet forum for more details.


----------



## BowDown

Awesome! New toy arrived today! (complements of Sam - sy0296 [DIYMA])

Sam was curious to hear my thoughts on the v-link compared to my 24-bit Sound Blaster USB. It's documented that USB sound cards digital output is susceptible to artifacts or jitters. On a high-end system this is audible, but the ear tends to tolerate it (much like distortion in small quantities). Supposedly Musical Fidelity has created some sort of 'jitter free' technology that eliminates most of this. 

What I want to know is if it actually has any audible differences, or if it's all just ink on paper. 

I'm going to install this unit during lunch. I will get to some A->B testing (by ear, and RTA) in the coming week.


----------



## crabbdaddy

bowdown .... wow! thanks for writing up your build progress!! i had an old build in a 96 cobra on another forum mp3car, using the H701 and a carpc. The car was totaled so i pulled what i could from the car and have been considering building a new pc based setup in my 69 mustang.... thanks for the inspiration to do so!!!! ill be picking up a v-link soon to feed my H701, hope to get it working with an android device, if not ill fall back to a XP device. also, i have magnepan speakers in my home with a tube preamp and solid state amp, and they are the closest thing to live music i have ever heard, i can only imagine the planer you have. now if i can just finish my 69 to begin work on the audio setup, with tube preamp and alpine amps.... ah one day!!!


----------



## BowDown

My quick v-link review from the carPC forum:



BowDown said:


> *Name:* V-Link
> *Manufacture Website:* Musical Fidelity V-LPS Phono Stage (nearly identical except brushed aluminum vs. black)
> *Price:* $99 on Amazon.com
> 
> *What does it do?:* It connects to a Windows PC/Mac and allows Asynchronous 24-bit 96KHz output to your Optical/Digital Coax device. Essentially you can think of it as a digital only USB sound card.
> 
> *My test-bed:* Samsung Q1 Ultra Mobile PC running Windows XP Pro SP3, 1GHz CPU, 2GB Memory, 18GB SSD, 32GB USB Thumbdrive (music storage), (2) USB 2.0 Ports, Standard USB Cables, LIND Power Supply.
> 
> *My Vehicle Audio System:* B&G neo3 Tweeters & neo8 PDR Midrange mounted in A-Pillar Pods. Dayton Audio RS180-4 mounted IB in Front Doors. Alpine Type-R SWR-823D 8” Subwoofer mounted in sealed Dash Enclosure (0.41ft^3 net). Alpine H700 Processor. Aura MR (old school) ClassAB Amplifiers. Stock vehicle electrical system.
> 
> *Tools for evaluation:* My Ears
> 
> 
> Now that the into stuff is out of the way let me give you a bit of a crash course on how I went about testing this unit..
> 
> For those of you that have been following my build thread you know this vehicle is coming up on the 2yr mark for fabrication. I have been through quite a few different pieces of equipment in a no hold bared quest for car audio perfection. Obviously I'm limited by money, and the ability to drive my vehicle... but I could care less about designing a car to conform to any SQ class definition. A few things have remained static.. my tweeters, midranges, and carPC setup. These seemed to be the staple of my system, and what I had felt was what I needed to achieve my goals. Till yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> So here goes:
> 
> 
> For my first test I chose to use the IASCA SQ CD as my media. I used tracks 39, 40, 41 for evaluation. This was a 3 step process for testing. I used my actual CD loaded into my DVA-7996 which is connected to the H700 via optical, my SoundBlaster 24bit USB Sound Card connected via optical, and the V-Link which was also connected via optical. [PC using FLAC rip of IASCA CD]. Each unit was set to the same input level so when switching between them mid-track I was able to keep a level playing field. In order to switch between them I had to change the input on the RUX, and if changing sound cards pause, cable swap, then couple clicks and resume. Not much time elapsed between changes.
> 
> 
> 
> _39. (00:06:49) IASCA - Michael Ruff: 'I Will Find You There'_
> *DVA-7996 [baseline]*
> 
> *V-Link:* A bit more atmosphere. I think this is because the sound is a bit livelier in the 6-8k range. There is also a bit cleaner bass guitar overtones. Cymbals are crisp and clean. Snare drum as a bit more snap. Notice the bottom end of the bass guitar has just a cleaner more defined presence on the stage.
> 
> *SoundBlaster USB:* Room atmosphere is lost. The sound is clean, but it no longer has a 'room' it just feels dry. There is now an obvious bit of compression over the whole track. The only way to describe it is to compare an MP3 file to a FLAC file back to back. I had never noticed parts I was missing until running a back to back test. It's almost like comparing a partly cloudy day to a sunny day. You just don't feel the energy of the track.
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest I started writing this review thinking of all the different things I was hearing between the 3 different devices.. but in the end it all ties back to the V-Link being the superior device. In all honesty I am listening to my whole library again and thinking “whoa, I don't remember hearing the maraca that clean”, or “hey where did that harmonizing guitar riff come from?”. It's really that big of a change.
> 
> The V-Link gets (2) thumbs up.. and that's because I only have (2) to give.
> 
> I need to thank Sam again for the opportunity to evaluate this unit. I would be expecting a new V-Link delivered to your address. I'm going to keep this one. :laugh:


----------



## scooter99

Are you planning to use the V-PSUII to put it in your car?


----------



## BowDown

scooter99 said:


> Are you planning to use the V-PSUII to put it in your car?


Really find no use for it. The soundcard is running from a dedicated USB port and all specs conclude that the power feeding it is adequate.


----------



## scooter99

Ok thanks!


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Really find no use for it. The soundcard is running from a dedicated USB port and all specs conclude that the power feeding it is adequate.


I think they make a new usb 3.0 version. your right your likley gonna have noise, especily with that little tablet you run. you still run that same little unit or did you upgrade it? because if it was xp, it might of had usb 1.2 or something, which had HORIBLE bandwith compared to todays. sitll would of had overhead for a soundcard but I'd feel better with a usb card on a 3.0 slot. just my .02$ :laugh: I finily finished building my carputer, i havnt installed it yet though, i need more time to install sadley. but my next few steps will hopefully be to finish my front end, i wanna get the screen, usb hub, and everything wired up in the cabin before i start mounting my tower in the trunk, i dont even have amps or even speakers installed for that matter currently, and i just finished picking up parts. but now it's far to ****ing cold to work on it you know what im talkking about i'm sure your in ny.


----------



## BowDown

I'm still using the Q1. It has USB 2.0. There's no noise as a result of the tablet's USB, nor the 15ft USB cable between them. There's no reason for a dedicated power supply. It can only introduce noise.


----------



## upgrayedd

i have went through this thread in a single night. I am impressed with creative solutions you have tried. Nice install.


----------



## BowDown

upgrayedd said:


> i have went through this thread in a single night. I am impressed with creative solutions you have tried. Nice install.


Thanks man. 

Eventually once the dust settles on alot of projects I'll get back to finishing up the esthetics on this build.


----------



## pocket5s

Just went through this build, namely because I've been contemplating a dash sub setup myself. Very nicely done. Now I'm going to go through your other build thread


----------



## BowDown

Love the dash sub. But it does take a bit of tweaking, and production auditioning to find the correct sub for up close listening.

Those that are interested in hearing this setup I'll be at a local IASCA event 2/12 in Syracuse, NY. Car will be open for demos.


----------



## xanderin

Do you have a different repository of pictures available? I cannot see any pictures you have. I just read 29 pages of thread with no pictures aside from those posted by others. Can you make a video showing current setup? I want to see more of your pillars.


----------



## BowDown

Sorry about that. I was doing some server overhaul at work and had to take down my shared photos.


----------



## claytonzmvox

I'm from Brazil and I am following the progress of your project and I am amazed at the quality of the care he can put you in your work, congratulations!!


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Tis defiantly some of my better work. Now to get the thing finished. Nursery is kinda taking over my time @ the moment though.


----------



## robert_wrath

+1 Subscribed. BOL on IASCA this year. Hope the tweaks payout ion dividends,


----------



## claytonzmvox

BowDown said:


> Thanks man. Tis defiantly some of my better work. Now to get the thing finished. Nursery is kinda taking over my time @ the moment though.



the peerless sls behave well in doors? Please opniões need!


----------



## BowDown

claytonzmvox said:


> the peerless sls behave well in doors? Please opniões need!


Peerless did great in the doors. If my midranges were a bit beefier and could reach into 400hz range a bit I would of kept them. Great for midbass impact in the IB setting.


----------



## claytonzmvox

BowDown said:


> Peerless did great in the doors. If my midranges were a bit beefier and could reach into 400hz range a bit I would of kept them. Great for midbass impact in the IB setting.


My 3-way L1 is composed of tw PRO SE + FULL TANG BAND+ MID PEERLESS SLS and use a idq10d4v3+ Boston GT24 for mono and stereo using an audio art 340.6 xe incredible, and I just bought a PXA-H800 + RUX to rule them all, I hope to be doing something right!!


----------



## BowDown

Try and keep the crossover point of the sls about 600hz or lower. They start to create audible distortion after 600hz.


----------



## claytonzmvox

BowDown said:


> Try and keep the crossover point of the sls about 600hz or lower. They start to create audible distortion after 600hz.



use cuts like this: sub 50Hz LP
MID HP 50Hz 300Hz LP
FULL HP 300Hz LP 5KHz
TW HP 5 KHz

I love this setup, but used the peerless in boots, I'm changing car and now I have to put them in the door!!

in nissan versa ----- out peugeot 206


----------



## brandontw

Went through all 29 pages of this tonight... a project in and of itself!

Amazing build tho. Props. You take pride in your work.

I'd love to see a nice gathering of finished pics, showing how everythng came out, and how it looks installed. Especially the planars in the pillars. i dont know if we ever saw a great completed pic of those..


----------



## BowDown

brandontw said:


> Went through all 29 pages of this tonight... a project in and of itself!
> 
> Amazing build tho. Props. You take pride in your work.
> 
> I'd love to see a nice gathering of finished pics, showing how everythng came out, and how it looks installed. Especially the planars in the pillars. i dont know if we ever saw a great completed pic of those..


Thanks man. It's been a long time coming. She does sound great though. I just need to say 'screw the weather' and get my ass out there during lunch to finish the new cables & power supply install. That way I can paint the trim pieces and install em for good.


----------



## Better n' Reverse

Build like this are why I love this site... After hearing some amazing high dollar Home audio systems I have decided to go more SQ... I wish I enjoyed wood working a little more though


----------



## BowDown

I'll take woodworking over fiberglass sanding any day. :laugh:


----------



## marvnmars

BowDown said:


> I'll take woodworking over fiberglass sanding any day. :laugh:


not as itchy and you don't have to wait for it to dry and set as much.. agree. I found your thread because I did a search for spare tire...wow, your sealed sub and spare was greatuse of space and your wood working skills..now you have really gone waaayyyyy outside of the box. 
I have 1 question about your orignal setup, how did you insulate the sub wires from grounding out on the body with the weight and rubing of the spare,or was the spare sitting on top of the sub? I am asking because i reciently had to buy a new wheel for my car (pot hole took a divit out) and now have the quasi repaired wheel as my full size spare, for me the spare will fit in the orignal spare well with out any mods to the trunk floor when replacing the doughnut. I would like to do the sub there, but I don't have the access to a wood shop, skills, or ability to be without my car for more then a weekend at a time right now. I currently have my amp rack ontop of the doughnut, but when i put the full size in I would rather have the outside of the wheel up as that looks to be the best way it will really fit. I am thinking of either using a battery quick connect for the wiring or trying to run it under the wheel.


----------



## [email protected]

Love the build. Did you use the port to increase internal volume by sealing it off? I have done that with an old setup where I had to use 2 enclosures to get the proper airspace and connected them with PVC...

How are you liking the 8" alpine?


----------



## BowDown

[email protected] said:


> Love the build. Did you use the port to increase internal volume by sealing it off? I have done that with an old setup where I had to use 2 enclosures to get the proper airspace and connected them with PVC...
> 
> How are you liking the 8" alpine?


Ya the box was a touch small so i descided to use the space under the passenger air bag via the sealed/stuffed port tube.

8 is a great sub. Best small sealed sub i have ever heard. Musical for sure. Doesnt reach much below 30hz small sealed, but heard ported its a little monster. Wish i had the space.


----------



## [email protected]

BowDown said:


> Ya the box was a touch small so i descided to use the space under the passenger air bag via the sealed/stuffed port tube.
> 
> 8 is a great sub. Best small sealed sub i have ever heard. Musical for sure. Doesnt reach much below 30hz small sealed, but heard ported its a little monster. Wish i had the space.


Badass!

I am beginning my install soon and am considering the Alpine 8 or 10! I want decent bottom end fill not overall SPL...

How do you compare the tube driver to the aura amps?

I have access to a NIB Aura 75 x 2 that matches your amps if you ever need one send me a PM.


----------



## BowDown

What kind of price? Lol


----------



## BowDown

I think the aura's are cleaner. Tube driver didnt really add any noticeable tube effect.


----------



## [email protected]

BowDown said:


> I think the aura's are cleaner. Tube driver didnt really add any noticeable tube effect.


Interesting... I wonder how much the processing played a role in that....

I am just getting back in to this after an 8 year absence and my last install was parted out with a Tube Driver 1500 on my 2 way front stage. I loved the organic sound of the TD versus my previous amps (PPI art series, McIntosh)

I will get you a price on the Aura. It is at a shop I frequent and figured if you needed it I could help.

What's next for the build?


----------



## BowDown

Ya I believe Butler in an effort to make the amp cleaner sounding ended up negating some of the 2nd order distortion the 'tube effect' control had on the older amps. Don't get me wrong.. nice amp. I would still be running it if the amp rack would fit another couple channels of it.

Well I still have to replace the midbass amp. I'm running a borrowed amp at the moment. Thinking of running 2 channels for processed rear fill. Just to see if it has any positive effect on the stage depth. 

In the near future though it will be finishing up the quick disconnect for the carPC, and getting the trim panels back on the dash.


----------



## BowDown

Well after a 2 month hiatus I'm back. 

I have been doing a good deal of tuning. Trying tons of different crossover points and techniques for tuning. I'm VERY happy with the current sound. 

Now that life has settled a bit after renovating 1/2 my house express style, and the new addition to the family.. I descided to step back into my car audio project. Main things left to do are:

-Finish fabrication on data/power quick connectors for carPC
-Finish sand bezel and accent strip
-Attach amp rack top with mechanical fasteners as carpet has matted and made cover a bit loose
-Chase a few rattles/buzzes
-Troubleshoot steering wheel controls. Some kind of resistance issue w/JoyCon controller.
-Fit larger battery in stock battery location. My stock battery has left me to die one too many times now.
-Enjoy it!

Here's a few picture updates of my quick connector bracket/bezel modifications. I still have to bore the holes larger and clean up the bezel before paint can fly. 

Unfortunately my sub box is sitting lower in the dash than when I first mocked it up. So I'm going to have to pull the sub enclosure and take 1/8" off the bottom so the receiver can live where it did during mockup of the bezel.


----------



## Notloudenuf

Congrats on the addition.
I'll pencil you in for a Christmas 2012 visit?


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Congrats on the addition.
> I'll pencil you in for a Christmas 2012 visit?


I'll throw it on the calendar. :laugh:


----------



## mellephants

BowDown said:


> Well after a 2 month hiatus I'm back.



Yay!


----------



## BowDown

Wow talk about taking steps backwards to go forward! During my lunch hour I bored the holes in the bezel to the correct diameter using my unibit I forgot last night. Then I removed the bracket, sub woofer port, sub box, HU, and some extra wiring I have since abandoned. I then planed 1/4" off the bottom of the sub enclosure using the jointer here. Wow that was hairy. So now I should have 1/8" gap between the bottom of the sub box and the HU. 

While I have the sub box out I'm going to work out any bugs in the joyCon steering wheel interface. 

Also I just ordered some Fleece tape to wrap all the wiring in so it looks OEM. I hope it comes in quickly.. Hope to have everything back together by the weekend. 

Ran out of time to take pics.. Will post more later.


----------



## n_olympios

Notloudenuf said:


> Congrats on the addiction.


Well that's what I read anyway.


----------



## BowDown

Worked on the car a bit yesterday. I fit my new 48 group larger battery in the stock tray, cleaned up some more wiring, and figured out the wires going to the other 1/2 of the steering wheel controls. 

Here is the How-to from battery swap I posted on the Fusion Forums.



> *Why I did it:*
> 
> 
> [li]More Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)[/li]
> [li]Increased reserve capacity for my aftermarket stereo[/li]
> [li]Larger selection of aftermarket batteries[/li]
> 
> As my aftermarket stereo system has gotten more demanding, and SQ competitions every month or so seem to kill my battery dead (they are indoors and require the car to be off during judging).. I felt this project was a must do. I really wanted to keep the stock battery location as my install design was to keep the entire truck available for cargo. After much research I determined that with some tray modifications we can fit the larger Group 48 style battery. It's a bit taller and longer.. but it really wasn't that difficult to install.
> 
> 
> *Battery Size Difference:*
> _*Motorcraft BXT-96R (OEM) --- 9-9/16L x 6-13/16W x 6-7/8H_
> CCA: 500
> Reserve Capacity: Unknown, but from experience terrible
> Replacement Cost: $100
> 
> _*Deka 9AGM48 --- 12-1/16L x 6-7/8W x 7-9/16H_
> CCA: 590
> Reserve Capacity: 30A for 75min
> Replacement Cost: $150
> 
> 
> *Scope of Work:* 60-90min
> 
> 
> *Tools Required:*
> 
> 
> [li]8mm Nut Driver[/li]
> [li]10mm Deep Socket[/li]
> [li]Wire Cutters[/li]
> [li]Cutoff Wheel of sum kind. A Hacksaw would prbly do the job, just take alot longer![/li]
> [li]Cable Ties[/li]
> [li]Razor Blade[/li]
> [li]Beer (optional)[/li]
> 
> 
> First let me show you the size differences between the (2) batteries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 1 (Remove Battery):*
> 
> 
> [li]Using the 8mm Nut Driver loosen/remove the battery tie down block on the engine side of the battery.[/li]
> [li]Next loosen the ground terminals 8mm tension nut and remove the terminal from the battery.[/li]
> [li]Followed by the positive terminal.[/li]
> [li]Lift battery out of the engine bay and set aside.[/li]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 2 (Remove Tray):*
> 
> 
> [li]To remove the tray you will need to use the 10mm Deep Socket and remove the (2) well nuts, and (1) Hex bolt.[/li]
> [li]There is also a wire on the positive side of the tray that is held in by a tree clip. Just firmly pull up on that wire to remove the tree clip.[/li]
> [li]Now don't try to remove the tray quite yet.. there is what I believe to be an EGR tube that's cable tied to the bottom on the engine side. There are clips that can be
> 
> accessed by using a flat blade screw driver from the engine side, but I just flipped the tray up and cut the ties.[/li]
> [li]Remove tray for modifications.[/li]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 3 (Modifications):*
> 
> 
> [li]Cut off both side wings and the catch nubs on the fender side of the tray (opposite of the battery tie down block).[/li]
> [li]Using a razor slice the tape on the (2) illustrated mount points for the ground cable. Slide the wire down 1" and re-secure mounts with cable ties.[/li]
> [li]The positive terminal has (2) cable ties holding it to the fuse box, cut these off. (not shown)[/li]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 4 (Reassembly):*
> 
> 
> [li]Reinstall the battery try. Don't forget the (2) Cable ties you will need to install to hold the EGR tube. Make sure the rubber slip cover is over the tube before you cable tie. Also make sure the positive (red) cable from the fuse box is over the ear on the front of the tray. This will make it easier than trying to pull the cable out after the tray is in place.[/li]
> [li]Attach wire held in by tree clip. Using (2) cable ties attach the positive wire to this clipped wire.[/li]
> [li]Place battery onto tray. Ensure it's slid all the way to the fender side, leave a little gap between the back of the battery and the brake fluid reservoir.[/li]
> [li]Reinstall battery tie down block.[/li]
> [li]Install positive battery terminal.[/li]
> [li]Install negative battery terminal.[/li]
> 
> Here is where I would say you could stop. The battery is in.. and really isn't going anywhere given the space it now lives. Also there is nothing conductive in the area of the battery.. so if it did happen to slide forward or backward a bit there's no harm. I did however grab an appliance foot I had kicking around, and using a coarse thread machine screw I attached it to the angled ear off the front of the tray to act as a stop. I do need to get another screw that's more pleasing to the eye, but for not it does it's job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Conclusion:*
> So far so good. I can tell the engine whirls over faster than it ever did with the stock battery. Can't wait to try it out during the next SQ comp. Winter starting should also be superior. Well worth the extra $50 and hour of my time.


----------



## BowDown

Going to try out a varivent in place of the port tube extension piece today. I cannibalized a scanspeak varivent and using some automotive hot glue, and a couple pieces of 2.5" conduit I made a removable cap so I can swap in different materials and thicknesses of material. At the moment I'm going to run with the 3/4" thick yellow fiberglass insulation and see how it sounds. 

Here's some assembly pics:


























































And yes, it comes apart.. very hard. :lol:


----------



## req

pics no worky.


----------



## BowDown

Server is very bogged from other processes. Check back in a bit. Lol. But to reply back about it... it sounded like ass. Like i had a leaky sealed enclosure. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## Got-Four-Eights

Hell of a job.. took me all day to get through this.. it was like a build log.. on top of a rebuild log.. on top of a rebuild log... on top of a build log.... you get the point.. I enjoyed this!


----------



## BowDown

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Hell of a job.. took me all day to get through this.. it was like a build log.. on top of a rebuild log.. on top of a rebuild log... on top of a build log.... you get the point.. I enjoyed this!


Thanks man. Has been quite the ride. Been very happy with the audible outcome so far. Getting very close to finishing the esthetics now..


----------



## BowDown

Updates!

Bezel and trim strip are finally DONE. 

Did some more sanding, primer, sanding... and ultimately some metallic rattle can on Sunday. I think it came out pretty nice. Installed pics to follow today.

Primer DONE:


























During painting:


























Paint is dried:


----------



## turbo5upra

Pics?


----------



## BowDown

I see pics here? Anyone else not seeing them?


----------



## pocket5s

I sure see them


----------



## BowDown

pocket5s said:


> I sure see them


Sweet. Thanks. Must be his crummy iPhone.


----------



## f5racing

Just finished reading this thread from the begining. Good work sir, very impressive. I like seeing all the different ideas, plans, and executions.


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Must of been a long ass read through. :lol: Maybe some point I will reflect back.. Gotta say I don't regret any of the changes.


----------



## f5racing

BowDown said:


> Thanks man. Must of been a long ass read through. :lol: Maybe some point I will reflect back.. Gotta say I don't regret any of the changes.


Took a while, but was worth it.


----------



## BowDown

Both pieces are mounted and looking damn nice. Bit of dust around in the interior.. but that'll come later in the week:


----------



## Salami

BowDown said:


> I see pics here? Anyone else not seeing them?



I see dead people. 












Awesome work as always. Being pretty lazy here, are you still using the SWR in the dash? Still happy with it?


----------



## BowDown

Ya still using the swr.  i ended up crossing it over at 36hz with a 12db slope. Allows me to take advantage of the bottom end without tons of eq correction. My dayton 7's are handling the rest very well. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## BowDown

To do list is getting shorter:
-Mount hazard switch
-Cover DVD drive with felt cloth
-Finish amp rack cover mounting screws
-RTA tune and tweak EQ if needed (after by ear adjustments)
-Through interior clean


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Both pieces are mounted and looking damn nice. Bit of dust around in the interior.. but that'll come later in the week:


you REALLY need to tint those windows man, or you are gonna just be teasing every theif who walks by your car. :mean:


----------



## BowDown

Ya the windows do need tint.. but the carPC comes down when I park in a public location. Stows in the glove box out of sight. The HU and RUX tho are exposed.


----------



## IBcivic

BowDown said:


> The HU and RUX tho are exposed.













Detachable Dummy Security Face Plate Panel for Double Din car dvd player Stereo | eBay

This would probably work great, for your app.


----------



## BowDown

That is a pretty cool idea. I'm just wondering how it mounts and if it will scratch my freshly painted bezel. May give it a shot though. Thanks.


----------



## BowDown

Outside of cleaning the windows, and washing the car... it is DONE. 

Granted I will be installing my double-din fake stock HU cover, and a nub cover for the PC mount. Maybe a cable tie here or there in the glove box.. but fabrication is DONE. . Final pictures with my digital camera to come Sunday @ the SQ Comp.


----------



## captainobvious

Whew! A long read through, but alot of great stuff bud! I like the fab techniques and materials used and your creativity. Very inspiring stuff. I hope to get my install wrapped up in about a month or so and I'd love to head out to a comp sometime to hear your system. The neo8's are an intriguing driver for car audio with their wide dispersion, and small mounting depth. A nice choice for the pillars!

-Steve


----------



## Thrill_House

Hey great meeting you at the show this past weekend dude, car sounded/looked awesome as well, great work!!!


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. The show was a great cap to the project too. Your car has an awesome center stage. What did you end up scoring? Sucks i had to leave early..

Sent from my cell.


----------



## IBcivic

Those neos did sound phenomenal! As did the dash mounted sub. The workmanship is flawless and listening to your "unique" set-up was like a breath of fresh air.


----------



## Thrill_House

BowDown said:


> Thanks man. The show was a great cap to the project too. Your car has an awesome center stage. What did you end up scoring? Sucks i had to leave early..
> 
> Sent from my cell.


I scored a 244, only 3 point behind louis's van.

Sent from my HTC-Z710a using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BowDown

Thanks guys. Much appreciated. Those planars really are gems in the pillars. Gotta say that show was the best yet with the pure collection of quality sq systems. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## captainobvious

What are your crossover settings on the 3 drivers (RS180/NEO8/NEO3)? Im wondering where you transition the midbass and the mid. Do you have any issues with male vocals being lower in the soundstage because of the seperation of the rs180 and the neo8? 
I currently am working on a 3" widebander in dash pillars and 8" midbasses in the doors. I haven't done any equing or measurements yet, but with my basic tuning method I run through (I do it by ear), I have vocals locked dead center and high. I have some lower midrange peakiness and some thinness in other areas I need to sort out once I get to that stage and get the mic and EQ rocking, but it left me wondering about your setup. Im very intrigued by the neo8's, but the 700hz+ frequency response range scares me. Would love to hear some of your thoughts.


----------



## BowDown

I used to cross them over at 500, the 700... but the best yet is the following:

See post a couple down. 


No problems with male vocals pulling down. I would check your db level of the midbasses. If you have them even off a db too loud you can get ear tugging left, right, or both. Hell even bass guitar throughout the entire range of the instrument stays dead center on the dash about 4-6" or so up.


----------



## BowDown

I mainly chose the 5.6khz crossover point because of the peak that starts to develop around 8khz in the neo8. Sure I could EQ it out.. but why when the crossover does it for me. Also keeping as much of the midrange in one speaker did wonders for the stage. 

I am going to double-check the 1khz @ 24db. I believe the slope is correct on that.. but I am having a brain fart at the moment.


----------



## BowDown

Scratch that. Lol

Sub is 35hz @ 24db
Midbass is 45 @ 24db to 1khz @ 12db
Neo8 is 1khz @ 18db to 5.6khz @ 18db
Neo3 is 5.6khz @ 18db +


Sent from my cell.


----------



## captainobvious

Hmmm, interesting. Did you test with just the neo8 (without the neo3) and determine that it just didnt play high enough or was the breakup just too much to overcome with eq that you needed the neo 3?
Im surprised you have an 8" sub at 35hz @24db. Do you get any significant output from it at that point? Most 8's start rolling off around that point.


----------



## BowDown

You are correct. That is the exact reason i crossed the 8 over that low. The 8 is capable of a decent amount of output. More than i need sitting 2-3ft from it. So by lowering the xover down i can increase the level and get the low extension i need without much eq. The midbasses do well filling in the gap.

I did try the neo8 alone. The quality of sound up top left something to be desired. One of the objects of this build was to keep the drivers in their comfort zone and minimal eq needed. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> You are correct. That is the exact reason i crossed the 8 over that low. The 8 is capable of a decent amount of output. More than i need sitting 2-3ft from it. So by lowering the xover down i can increase the level and get the low extension i need without much eq. The midbasses do well filling in the gap.
> 
> I did try the neo8 alone. The quality of sound up top left something to be desired. One of the objects of this build was to keep the drivers in their comfort zone and minimal eq needed.
> 
> Sent from my cell.


Sweet. I look forward to hearing it sometime in the future!


----------



## BowDown

If we do a combination Canada, NY, PA show for IASCA in a couple months I'll try my best to get there.


----------



## hyundave

All the work in here is unbelievable... One day... One day...


----------



## BowDown

Thanks for the positive feedback. Much appreciated. It's been a long road but the journey was just as fun as the end result. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## mirek

wow that looks amazing


----------



## shaneckc

very nice work on the in dash subwoofer. i hope it was worth all of the effort!


----------



## BowDown

So was... love the truly upfront bass. :beer:

Sent from my cell.


----------



## JayinMI

BowDown said:


> Also keeping as much of the midrange in one speaker did wonders for the stage.


That's why I like my Bamboo's on the dash. 315 Hz and up worked pretty well.
I wish there were shows in Michigan so I could hear some of the cars on this forum. LOL I'd be curious to hear the planars.



Jay


----------



## IBcivic

JayinMI said:


> That's why I like my Bamboo's on the dash. 315 Hz and up worked pretty well.
> I wish there were shows in Michigan so I could hear some of the cars on this forum. LOL I'd be curious to hear the planars.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay


Tonally, they litterally knocked my socks off!


----------



## JayinMI

Hope your feet were clean. LOL

My biggest thing is that I don't have a basis for comparison. I'm trying to learn about what things are supposed to sound like...I don't have a home reference system. My car has always gotten most of my audio attention.

How's the scene in Ontario, Canada? Might be worth getting my passport. LOL

Ocassionally going to Ohio, Pennsylvania or maybe NY would be OK, but I couldn't do it enough to compete.

Bowdown, as your system gets better, do you notice that music you used to like sounds horrible? I have.

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Defiantly. Not all lossless is created equal. I have discovered that a great deal of today's music truncates and boosts alot of bands to help low-fidelity systems increase output.

Www.hdtracks.com is my new download site. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## BowDown

IBcivic said:


> Tonally, they litterally knocked my socks off!


Thanks man. 

Can't wait for the next show. 

Sent from my cell.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> Can't wait for the next show.
> 
> Sent from my cell.


 
Whens the next one you'll be attending?


----------



## BowDown

I will be @ the End of Summer Showdown in Pottsville, PA on 9/16. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...$-prize-pottsville-pa-sept-16-meca-iasca.html


----------



## BowDown

Also figured I would post a pic of the dash from the back seat. With the computer not mounted.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> I will be @ the End of Summer Showdown in Pottsville, PA on 9/16.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...$-prize-pottsville-pa-sept-16-meca-iasca.html


thats awsome man im gonna swing by for that one i would love to get a demo  and i'll demo mine or whats done in mine at least :-s hopfuly this darn video cable gets here so i can finish :mean:


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> thats awsome man im gonna swing by for that one i would love to get a demo  and i'll demo mine or whats done in mine at least :-s hopfuly this darn video cable gets here so i can finish :mean:


Sure thing man. Will be night and day from when you heard it last time.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Sure thing man. Will be night and day from when you heard it last time.


yeah man, i was more blown away by the types of drivers you ran last time. i cant wait to see what you've come up with this time. i think you were running an xtant sub last time, still runing the alpine type R now right?


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> yeah man, i was more blown away by the types of drivers you ran last time. i cant wait to see what you've come up with this time. i think you were running an xtant sub last time, still runing the alpine type R now right?


Ya, typeR sub, dayton rs180 midbasses, aura mr amps, dva-7996, h701 processing has been added/changed out since you heard it. 

So pretty much the pillars have stayed, rest has changed.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Ya, typeR sub, dayton rs180 midbasses, aura mr amps, dva-7996, h701 processing has been added/changed out since you heard it.
> 
> So pretty much the pillars have stayed, rest has changed.


I just picked up the h800 my self. i picked up the h701 the end of last season based on how much i liked it in yours, REQ's, TINTBOX, i think howard ran one too. and many many other awsome sounding cars i loved with 701's so i picked up the 701 didnt like it but i just picked up the h800 since it has a much easier interface and software options  plus the 3sixty.3 was takingt o long XD


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> I will be @ the End of Summer Showdown in Pottsville, PA on 9/16.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...$-prize-pottsville-pa-sept-16-meca-iasca.html


Excellent! I'll be there as well. Definitely excited to get a demo


----------



## IBcivic

BowDown said:


> Also figured I would post a pic of the dash from the back seat. With the computer not mounted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Get that computer back in there and hide that big furry bulge


----------



## BowDown

Lol and the slightly off center bezel hole. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## IBcivic

BowDown said:


> Lol and the slightly off center bezel hole.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


That is one of those things that only bothers the builder ...I never noticed it


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Excellent! I'll be there as well. Definitely excited to get a demo


Were you at the show? I'm terrible with names... :lol:


----------



## JayinMI

Hey Bowdown, how do you like your Galaxy S III, and how long have you had it? Thinking of getting one to replace my Vibrant. But all the reviews I read are people who posted them up on the first day they got it. LOL

Dash looks great. 

Are your RS180's in the door?

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Love the Galaxy S III. Highly suggest changing the keyboard app over to SwiftKey though. After that I have no real gripe with the phone. Great alternative to the evil empire.

Thanks man. I'm pretty happy with everything. The glue on the abs radio bezel shrunk in the car's hot temps.. so in certian light I can see the body work more on the bezel. Boo! But overall the car still impresses me every day.

The RS180's are in a pretty well constructed door. I run them down to 45hz w/130watts RMS to each. They take it all day long. Love them.


----------



## BowDown

I tied for 2nd place in the MECA state finals in MODEX @ the End Of Summer Showdown.. but the rules dictated for a tie breaker it come down to the tonality section where I was edged out by 0.5 points.

I took first in IASCA 3X event in Pro-AM. 

Was a great weekend!

MECA judges were a bit scattered on gripes.. but some common suggestions were a bit cleaner in the midbass/midrange, and more output.


----------



## JayinMI

I imagine once I'm done, I'll hear something similar. lol
I may hit up a few shows next year...I may have to hit up the PA area since it isn't _ridiculously_ far away from me. 

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Tru Tru man. Was a great show. 21 SQ cars, 2 formats, and other fun events makes for a win win.


----------



## JayinMI

Our company just held our first "Monster Sounds" show in years...and of course it was all SPL. They didn't even have SQ classes. In Michigan, there are only 4 MECA shows that I'm aware of, and they are all in Benton Harbor...*affectionately* referred to as Benton Harlem...it's not a great area.
So, I'm thinking if I were to compete, I'd spend alot of time in Ohio, Illinois, PA, etc.

Jay


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Were you at the show? I'm terrible with names... :lol:


 Sadly, no.

I couldn't make it out because I had to many other commitments.


Congrats though, looks like you scored pretty well!


-Steve


----------



## BowDown

Ya, I did well. Not sure how much I can really change in my setup to do better. The critiques were a bit lacking.. but a larger sub stage wouldn't hurt.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

You need to ditch the 700 and get some IB in there I currently have no true IB woofers for sale


----------



## Syracuse Customs

when you grow up you buy an iPhone


----------



## BowDown

Lol why would I want that piece of junk? 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Syracuse Customs said:


> You need to ditch the 700 and get some IB in there I currently have no true IB woofers for sale


Well keep me in mind. Still planning the sub install. Going to need more amplification too. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## chefhow

JayinMI said:


> Our company just held our first "Monster Sounds" show in years...and of course it was all SPL. They didn't even have SQ classes. In Michigan, there are only 4 MECA shows that I'm aware of, and they are all in Benton Harbor...*affectionately* referred to as Benton Harlem...it's not a great area.
> So, I'm thinking if I were to compete, I'd spend alot of time in Ohio, Illinois, PA, etc.
> 
> Jay



Benton Harbor has one of the best Mexican Restaurants I have been to north of the border. Its in the back of a grocery store and you have to ask for the English menu, FANTASTIC food and pastries. I go thru there 2 times a year for work and always stop for lunch.

I heard you had a HUGE turnout for the SPL show last weekend from Steve. It cant hurt to try to add the SQ portion, I know there are several guys in your area that would come out to compete. Make it a 1X SQ show and charge $20, its worth a try.


----------



## JayinMI

That's not a bad idea. There aren't enough SQ guys over here to warrant multiple shows, like there were in the late 90's/early 2000's, but I'm sure there are enough to make it worth while. Around here SPL is king, and when we get some decent SQ products in, they sit around too long and the owner freaks and gets rid of it. 

I wish there was more of an SQ presence around here.

Happen to remember to name (or street names) of the restaurant?

/hijack off LOL

Jay


----------



## chefhow

JayinMI said:


> Happen to remember to name (or street names) of the restaurant?
> 
> Jay


La Perla, its VERY GOOD!!


----------



## JayinMI

I was just going to ask if it was La Perla.
I googled it and every review was 5 stars, except for a couple of 4 star ones. Might have to keep it in mind when I take my vacation.

BTW, who is Steve?



Jay


----------



## BowDown

Lol where did this even come from? 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Never mind. I found the link. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

Sorry for the hijack. I think we're done now.

Jay


----------



## goodstuff

How did the Roxul work out for you*?
*


----------



## BowDown

Works very well. I have a **** ton left. If you want I can bring you some to the Mid-winter event in a few months?

I just installed the door panel with the power lock/window control and door handle area not installed and packed it into all the voids. It really helps isolate some of the back waves from the front. Especially around the speaker baffle area where there was a good amount of open area.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Works very well. I have a **** ton left. If you want I can bring you some to the Mid-winter event in a few months?
> 
> I just installed the door panel with the power lock/window control and door handle area not installed and packed it into all the voids. It really helps isolate some of the back waves from the front. Especially around the speaker baffle area where there was a good amount of open area.


Sure that would be great. Very nice of you. Let me know if you need any heatshrink.


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> I just installed the door panel with the power lock/window control and door handle area not installed and packed it into all the voids. It really helps isolate some of the back waves from the front. Especially around the speaker baffle area where there was a good amount of open area.


Could you reach from the door lock down to where the speaker mounting bracket is? 

I hadn't thought of packing stuff between the door panel AFTER you put the panel back on. I may give that a try the next time I have the door panel off.


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Could you reach from the door lock down to where the speaker mounting bracket is?
> 
> I hadn't thought of packing stuff between the door panel AFTER you put the panel back on. I may give that a try the next time I have the door panel off.


Ya u can with the power windows piece out. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

In an effort to get more sub 30hz I'm going to add a 15" Boston G215–4 in the trunk. Don't have an amp yet but will be getting material to start the box next week. Going to install it into the recommend 2ft sealed. 



















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Finally real bass


----------



## tyroneshoes

I have that sub in the 2ft sealed enclosure and its friggin loud. Just caused too much rattling for me and was overkill. All it needs is about 250-300 watts in 2ft. Just sitting in my garage, guess Ill craigslist it.

I had it play 80 hz with no 8" and also tried below 40 hz and below while the tc 8" did 40-80 and it was nice to have extended lowend, but it was so loud, I would have to matt my truck even more and add more power up front. So back to stealth with a single 8" and Im happy.


----------



## BowDown

Syracuse Customs said:


> Finally real bass


I believe your definition of bass has been clouded by the street thumpers your customers request. :laugh:

But it will be nice to fill out the bottom end a bit. Really didn't know what I was missing till I demo'd Blair's car @ the last meet.


----------



## BowDown

tyroneshoes said:


> I have that sub in the 2ft sealed enclosure and its friggin loud. Just caused too much rattling for me and was overkill. All it needs is about 250-300 watts in 2ft. Just sitting in my garage, guess Ill craigslist it.
> 
> I had it play 40 hz and below while the tc 8" did 40-80 and it was nice to have extended lowend, but it was so loud, I would have to matt my truck even more and add more power up front. So back to stealth with a single 8" and Im happy.


:laugh:

They make a 'knob' for that..


----------



## tyroneshoes

BowDown said:


> :laugh:
> 
> They make a 'knob' for that..


Yeah, I had a "knob" hooked up. even atlow volumes it caused all sorts of rattles due to having to back fire it to my tailgate and my 8 is currently side fired and attached to the chassis. But no need to derail, try it and tell us if you like it. I like trunk space.

Id also consider a tc epic 8". It has no problem with the sub 40 stuff in a critically damped enclosure. Low fs


----------



## BowDown

Was interesting.. while shopping for wood for the enclosure I found some 1/4 sheets of 18mm lauan plywood? Almost 3/4" in thickness, but 11-ply! Best thing was it was cheaper than the poor excuse for birch ply they sell (whopping 5-ply). 

Guess I'll see how easy it is to work with Monday.


----------



## BowDown

Box pieces cut minus the sub hole. Lol. Not bad for an hours work.

























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Box pieces cut minus the sub hole. Lol. Not bad for an hours work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Gonna put that in the glovebox? :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Gonna put that in the glovebox? :laugh:


Ha! Now that's an idea. But alas I am going to take up some trunk space for a 15" sub. Will be removable though.


----------



## quality_sound

Jesus man...I would kill for a shop like that.


----------



## BowDown

quality_sound said:


> Jesus man...I would kill for a shop like that.


They do have quite a few tools.. but even as many as they have I'm still wanting more. A drum sander, scroll saw or circle jig would be great for holes. I still use a jig saw. Also a dovetail jig would be clutch for cabinet making. Otherwise I use a half lap joint. 

But other than that it's a great fringe benefit.


----------



## quality_sound

Hell yeah it is. I haven't been to a base in probably 15 years that still has a hobby shop anymore.


----------



## BowDown

Another productive lunch. Got the sub baffle cut, and box glued and stapled together. Thursday during lunch I will give the edges a light sand and fill the staple marks. Then Friday I will try to fill the box and mount the sub. Will wait to carpet it after demo. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Excess glue will clean up easy. I used extra so I could swipe the cut edges of the plywood for a bit of sealant.


----------



## BowDown

Not a bad looking box. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


You should repaint the dust cap so it says bowdown instead of boston, lol.


----------



## BowDown

Ha. Would be awesome. Might be a touch-up thing after it's installed.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> Ha. Would be awesome. Might be a touch-up thing after it's installed.


O_O that's quite the switch up. a temp setup perhaps?


----------



## BowDown

Will just add some bottom below 30hz that the 8 is lacking. But will be completely removable for boot space. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## req

nice dude. thats a solid looking enclosure.

you could always make a fiberglass one into the corner like i did for my wife.


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> nice dude. thats a solid looking enclosure.
> 
> you could always make a fiberglass one into the corner like i did for my wife.


Thanks. It is beefy but should fit under the amp rack and allow a forward facing sub orientation. 

I thought about the side mounted fiberglass enclosure, but getting the sweet spot 2ft sealed would be difficult. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

NICE wood work as always! I'm sure you already know this but anyway, you
can make a circle jig in about 10min and a piece of hard board.


----------



## quality_sound

^^^Right?? LMAO


----------



## BowDown

FLYONWALL9 said:


> NICE wood work as always! I'm sure you already know this but anyway, you
> can make a circle jig in about 10min and a piece of hard board.


True. It's just one of those things I have learned to live without, but always look for first. :laugh:

Going to test fit the box today, and if everything works out will give it a quick sand... and install the t-nuts. Tomorrow will seal up the seams on the inside (for ****s and giggles) and line the box with fiberglass insulation.


----------



## BowDown

Had to remove rear carpet and spare to get the box in. But they do go back in after. Lol. Guess that works. Now to finish it.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Qyota

Wood glue and staples for the box construction? I like it! I used mostly wood glue and screws for my latest creation, but would have used big staples if I had the right gun. I have a BN200, which just shoots brads. Drilling/countersinking/screwing is for the birds!


----------



## BowDown

Fasteners are really only needed to keep the joints tight while the glue dries. After that it's all up to the glue. The staple gun I used has a 1/2" crown and shoots 2" long staples. 1 every 4-6" was enough .


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> Had to remove rear carpet and spare to get the box in. But they do go back in after. Lol. Guess that works. Now to finish it.


I really wanted to put an IB 18 back there in mine but it would have had to fit behind the rear (strut tower?) I think that's what that drop down is right behind the back seat.


----------



## BowDown

I guess... Or the rear deck is what I would call it.. but ya anything larger than a 12" would require you to angle the baffle. Before I built this box I was thinking of throwing in the towel and walling off the trunk for a pair of 18" or 15" IB subs.. but after measurements I figured it would be way too much work. Especially considering my amp rack hangs off the rear deck too.


----------



## BowDown

Box has been caulked, stuffed with insulation, wire installed, and sub secured down. All ready for a test tomorrow.


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

I think if I tried using that type of wood to build a box I would end up angry and needing more wood.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> I think if I tried using that type of wood to build a box I would end up angry and needing more wood.


Been there done that. Not my first rodeo on this box .

Thinking a bit of bondo and carpet will be in order next week. Going to give it a good few days of break-in to make sure all is what I expected.


----------



## NucFusion

Hmm, never thought about trying to get a 15 incher in the back of the Fusion. Does that box interfere at all with the springs for the seat release on the passenger side? My ported 10in box sits just right under those release levers. 

So, how does it sound firing forward rather than to the rear?


----------



## BowDown

NucFusion said:


> Hmm, never thought about trying to get a 15 incher in the back of the Fusion. Does that box interfere at all with the springs for the seat release on the passenger side? My ported 10in box sits just right under those release levers.
> 
> So, how does it sound firing forward rather than to the rear?


No the box is just below it. Total height is 15" for the box. It ends up just below the rear cross support. Which in my install is the level of the fold down amp rack. 

I didn't get to hook it up today. It was pretty miserable weather wise during my lunch. Will give some listening impressions tomorrow or Saturday. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Sub is in and functional. All I have to say is wow.. Going to have to re listen to a lot of music to see what I've been missing. 

Have a basic crossover and ta setup, more tweaking is needed but so far I give it 2 thumbs up. 

Pics to come tomorrow. Possibly next week I will finish the carpet on the box. For now I need to make some mounting brackets. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## tintbox

Nice.


----------



## BowDown

Brock_Landers said:


> What wood are you using? It looks like 5 ply. Do you have any weird resonances from it? I have a bunch of 5 ply laying around from other projects that I was going to re-purpose for my build.


It's actually 11ply luan.  

No issues so far. Box is stuffed with r19 fiberglass insulation. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Bit more tweaking this morning. I changed the dash sub from center channel selection to Left sub. This allowed me to kick the level up to the point where it used to be. Blends the rear sub in very well now. Awesome!

Gotta bring out the RTA this week to get it tweaked in.

Superman track on the IASCA CD never sounded so good.


----------



## goodstuff

Boom like so. **** now I need two subs to compete with you?


----------



## BowDown

Did some tuning during lunch using fcarpio's writeup on mono music & out of phase TA.. Wow the results were phenomenal.


----------



## BowDown

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...5069-better-technique-ear-time-alignment.html 

Link for people that haven't tried it.


----------



## JayinMI

So, do you use both subs at the same time, or one or the other?

Jay


----------



## BowDown

JayinMI said:


> So, do you use both subs at the same time, or one or the other?
> 
> Jay


Both at the same time. 


15" sub in the trunk goes from 0hz -> 28hz @ 18db | 0 phase
8" dash sub goes from 31.5hz @ 18db to 36hz @ 12db | 180 phase
7" midbasses take over from 45hz @ 18db | 0 phase

Looks complicated but works seamless.


----------



## BowDown

Still all grins each time I listen to this system. Going to bring the RTA in tomorrow and double-check the curve. 

Turbo5upra got a listen last night.. maybe he'll post some impressions.


----------



## quality_sound

The dash sub play FOUR Hertz? Why bother?


----------



## BowDown

:laugh:


> 8" dash sub goes from 31.5hz @ 18db to 36hz @ 12db | 180 phase


May appear so.. but that's where the slope comes into play. For example if my system is playing @ 90db output, and assuming all drivers are outputting the same level... my sub will play well below the 31.5hz crossover, and well above the 36hz crossover point.

If we take the threshold of 70db which is about talking level... my sub will play down to about 15.75hz @ 70db, and 145hz on the top @ 70db. Theoretical; not factoring natural rolloff, EQ adjustments or cabin gain.

Keep in mind an octave change is 1/2. So if you're thinking in terms of music the C scale of c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c will fit in 1 octave of output. Down low on a sub that is starting at say 30hz will finish an octave up in another 30hz.. so between 30hz and 60hz you have an octave. Alot more musical information down low than up high. Figure most tweeters that are crossed over @ 2khz will only play 3.25 octaves before 20hz. A sub from 20hz to 80hz is 2 octaves right there. 

Just because you set a crossover point at a given freq doesn't mean that's all the range you're going to get. I lapped the sub @ 12db on the high end so that it would blend with the midbasses and bring the stage up. Which it does well.

I did raise the low pass on the sub to 45hz, and the high pass on the midbasses to 56hz. Figured I would take a bit of stress off the midbasses trying to play down low now that I have more sub power available.


----------



## JayinMI

In my 1st Neon, I tried to implement something similar to bring my bass forward. I had 3 10" Kicker F10's on the rear deck, and built an enclosure in the open space where the A/C stuff would have been (if I'd ordered the car with it). The Enclosure had a Kicker C6.5 in it and was getting about 150 watts. It never was what I'd call a drastic change, but it also ran in a pretty narrow bandwidth. Your idea was much better implemented. lol

Jay


----------



## derickveliz

BowDown said:


> Sub is in and functional. All I have to say is wow.. Going to have to re listen to a lot of music to see what I've been missing.
> 
> Have a basic crossover and ta setup, more tweaking is needed but so far I give it 2 thumbs up.
> .


I tried this a couple of times but most of the time the bass would feel like coming from behind, when you say "basic crossover" and "ta" what are you referring to? would you share more details? 

Thank you.


----------



## quality_sound

BowDown said:


> :laugh:
> 
> 
> May appear so.. but that's where the slope comes into play. For example if my system is playing @ 90db output, and assuming all drivers are outputting the same level... my sub will play well below the 31.5hz crossover, and well above the 36hz crossover point.
> 
> If we take the threshold of 70db which is about talking level... my sub will play down to about 15.75hz @ 70db, and 145hz on the top @ 70db. Theoretical; not factoring natural rolloff, EQ adjustments or cabin gain.
> 
> Keep in mind an octave change is 1/2. So if you're thinking in terms of music the C scale of c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c will fit in 1 octave of output. Down low on a sub that is starting at say 30hz will finish an octave up in another 30hz.. so between 30hz and 60hz you have an octave. Alot more musical information down low than up high. Figure most tweeters that are crossed over @ 2khz will only play 3.25 octaves before 20hz. A sub from 20hz to 80hz is 2 octaves right there.
> 
> Just because you set a crossover point at a given freq doesn't mean that's all the range you're going to get. I lapped the sub @ 12db on the high end so that it would blend with the midbasses and bring the stage up. Which it does well.
> 
> I did raise the low pass on the sub to 45hz, and the high pass on the midbasses to 56hz. Figured I would take a bit of stress off the midbasses trying to play down low now that I have more sub power available.


Oh I know, and I could have worded my reply better but the point is it's a VERY narrow band. I wonder how it would sound if it played a wider band. Just spitballin' here.


----------



## thehatedguy

Yeah a 4 hertz pass band?


----------



## BowDown

I would invite you guys to come up for a demo. Lol. Sometimes hearing is believing. :thumbup:



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## n_olympios

Whatever works, guys. 

I know you like your bass, and it might have already been mentioned, but have you tried to run it without a HPF and with the rear sub switched off? 

Personally, if at 35Hz its response isn't massively low, I could probably live without a rear sub.


----------



## BowDown

n_olympios said:


> Whatever works, guys.
> 
> I know you like your bass, and it might have already been mentioned, but have you tried to run it without a HPF and with the rear sub switched off?
> 
> Personally, if at 35Hz its response isn't massively low, I could probably live without a rear sub.


Ya I had the dash up working pretty well down to low 30s but I was losing points for sub stage. Also after hearing what I was missing it really does take the car to the next level SQ wise. Lol. 

In case you guys missed the post I did adjust the passband a bit. It now has 31.5 to 45hz.  



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

thehatedguy said:


> Yeah a 4 hertz pass band?



Keep in mind the curve for the sub in a small sealed (.38ft) causes it to run up into the 80hz range like it's being chased by a black bear. So by starting the slope early it saves me a great deal of EQ. 

I will be breaking out the RTA today. I plan to meter each speaker pair separately so I can see the actual contribution to the overall sound.


----------



## BowDown

derickveliz said:


> I tried this a couple of times but most of the time the bass would feel like coming from behind, when you say "basic crossover" and "ta" what are you referring to? would you share more details?
> 
> Thank you.


When I had mentioned that I applied a basic crossover, and time alignment (ta).. I was referring to just pulling numbers that I figured would be a decent starting point for the crossover slope (which I set in the H700 processor), and for time alignment I just aligned the new sub with the other sub/midbass using Rage Against the Machine's - Take the power back. 

Since I have re-aligned all drivers TA using the out of phase, mono music method. HIGHLY recommend!


----------



## BowDown

Bit of RTA and a bit of rattle finding during lunch today. This was my end curve using TrueRTA.

Looks like my dash sub grill has a wicked resonance at 80hz, along with the passenger door panel. Got both of them tamed. 

The 450-500 dip has always been there. Has to due with the door to center trim piece length. Not exactly sure what to do to correct that.

The tweeters starting at 5.3k are a bit hot.. adds some detail though. Overall it's closer to a SQ tune. I saved the old street pounder tune though.


----------



## BowDown

I will get the individual RTA graphs another day. Today I just didn't have the time to play games with isolating speakers.


----------



## Orion525iT

BowDown said:


> I lapped the sub @ 12db on the high end so that it would blend with the midbasses and bring the stage up. Which it does well..


Up as in forward, or Up as in more stage height?

I think I posted this on your build thread some time ago, but my experiments with the dash mounted sub managed to bring the stage higher. Although many pointed out that the science would suggest this is not possible, it was a very clear difference. It also seemed to center the stage somewhat more. Mind you, I was running the sub up to 150hz, so its not the same.

Just looking for clarification to that statement, thanks.

At some point, I plan to run a large rear sub to augment my two front mounted 8" type Rs. Physical placement will be within the "cone of confusion" just to see what happens .


----------



## BowDown

I guess both. Lol. Bass in the center of the stage as opposed to just filling the cabin. Gives your ear some point to focus on. I guess some 2nd order distortion is a good thing when trying to place something that should be omnidirectional.



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

After lunch hour today just listening and tweaking a little by ear on the crossover settings I left with nothing but a huge smile on my face. Wow. I can't wait for the next IASCA SQ show to be able to share and get scored.


----------



## BowDown

Well after giving it some thought I really want to try a new dsp. H700 has served me well but I want a bit more sampling rate. So I traded my dsp for a minidsp 2x8. Should be here on black Friday. 

On another note, I toasted my passenger side mid bass. Doh! Going to stick with the Daytons though. It's my fault. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

Is the amp rack latch a hood latch or a trunk latch? I'm stealing your idea if you couldn't tell.


----------



## BowDown

Some progress despite the weather. Haven't programmed it or listened yet... But I'm sure some would appreciate the conditions I was working in. Lol. 

Also included a test mount picture. 

I will hopefully be able to fire it up later tonight.


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## IBcivic

Nice! Can't wait to audition the modded set-up
Still snow free o'er here...eh?


----------



## BowDown

IBcivic said:


> Nice! Can't wait to audition the modded set-up
> Still snow free o'er here...eh?


As of 2 days ago No. Lol. 

I hopefully will have the kinks worked out of the tune and the processor hidden by then. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

After a kink with the remote out + being too low to trigger my amps its alive! My crossover and ta settings are very close from the alpine. No eq leaves a bit to be desired. I'd say I went from a 90% tune to a 60% tune but there is a lot of promise with the clarity and power of all the new slopes and parametric eq. Looking forward to the re-tune.  



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quality_sound

BowDown said:


> Some progress despite the weather. Haven't programmed it or listened yet... But I'm sure some would appreciate the conditions I was working in. Lol.
> 
> Also included a test mount picture.
> 
> I will hopefully be able to fire it up later tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


The word "**** THAT noise!" come to mind... :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

quality_sound said:


> The word "**** THAT noise!" come to mind... :laugh:


Ya, nothing like having snow coming down on a bare board miniDSP. So I broke out the umbrella to make life easier. The snow had stopped when I took the pic.. but it was still 25deg F outside!


----------



## BowDown

Well I got the miniDSP installed and working last night.

First impressions: I love it.

The software is very easy to use.. and not overly intimidating. The on the fly changes work very well. I keyed in the TA, Crossover, and GAIN settings from my H700 and it's pretty damn close. I will be tweaking the tune for sure though.


Things I miss coming from the H700:
-Small footprint of the H700 was nice.
-Optical In (miniDSP 2x8 doesn't have one without adding the DIGI-FP card)
-Physical Volume Control
-31-Band Graphic EQ

Overall I believe this miniDSP is a step in the right direction for me. It's just going to take a **** ton of tweaking to figure out how to tune with this 5-Band Parametric EQ. I'm going to break out the RTA this week and see what I'm looking at. Having control over each of the tweeter/midrange in the pillars is adding a new level of tuning. The H700 used to combine them when controlling EQ, now I can figure out which one is the problem around 4-5.6k.


BTW: No noise what so ever. I'm using that regulated power supply listed above, and a pair of 1:1 isolation transformers on the analog inputs.


I did run into an issue using the delayed REM option on the board. It appears that (3) amps is too much for the board to handle. Specs say the board only outputs 10ma? Ouch. I'm going to wire up a relay on the delayed REM... but even with the amps coming on along side of the miniDSP I have no pops.


----------



## goodstuff

Just hose it down with some salt water to take care of the snow.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Just hose it down with some salt water to take care of the snow.


Would give ya a chance @ the next show? :laugh: Muuhaha.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Would give ya a chance @ the next show? :laugh: Muuhaha.


OH burn. Makes me want to reveal my secret weapon.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> OH burn. Makes me want to reveal my secret weapon.


Acquire a PS8?


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Acquire a PS8?


See you on the 20th.


----------



## derickveliz

BowDown said:


> Would give ya a chance @ the next show? :laugh: Muuhaha.


I would love to hear your set up guys! When and where is this next show? goodstuff are you going?

.


----------



## BowDown

derickveliz said:


> I would love to hear your set up guys! When and where is this next show? goodstuff are you going?
> 
> .


Show is 1/20/13 @ Syracuse Customs in Brewerton, NY. There is a thread about it in the 12v Events Forum here.


----------



## goodstuff

derickveliz said:


> I would love to hear your set up guys! When and where is this next show? goodstuff are you going?
> 
> .


yes.


----------



## BowDown

Love and hate with the the new minidsp. Love using the computer to control slopes and such... Really miss my graphic eq. Bit disappointed with the rta in trying to level match and such. Was definitely a bust there. It's going to be a bit of a change in tuning approach but it'll get there. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## derickveliz

BowDown said:


> Show is 1/20/13 @ Syracuse Customs in Brewerton, NY. There is a thread about it in the 12v Events Forum here.


Grrr,  I thought it was going to be on December, I leave to the Tropics on the 17th of January 2013.

*I'm going to have to wait for the next one.*

That's too bad. 

.


----------



## BowDown

derickveliz said:


> Grrr,  I thought it was going to be on December, I leave to the Tropics on the 17th of January 2013.
> 
> *I'm going to have to wait for the next one.*
> 
> That's too bad.
> 
> .


That sucks man. This is going to be a great show!


----------



## BowDown

I just love it when I have a 1.5hr tuning session at rather high volumes.. I think I get it dialed in pretty well.. but know damn well my ears are toast by the end and I should stop tuning... Then I get in the next day and am still 'ear hungover' and think, "hmm... center is nice.. but wtf?" :laugh:


----------



## derickveliz

BowDown said:


> That sucks man. This is going to be a great show!


*When and where is the next one? *

Not too many shows like that in New England area or near Massachusetts. 

.


----------



## goodstuff

derickveliz said:


> *When and where is the next one? *
> 
> Not too many shows like that in New England area or near Massachusetts.
> 
> .


You just have to keep an eye on the events section and wait for the next one. Also look at the Iasca site.


----------



## BowDown

Swapped the xtant 10" sub back into the dash. I want something that I can bring up into the 80hz range to help out the midbasses now that I have the rear sub. TypeR is sold.. which gave me the money I needed to order the digital input module, and preset controller for the miniDSP 2x8. Now it will be a miniDSP 4x10HD. Hope it comes in before the show on the 20th.. I have really missed my carPC. 

More tuning has been happening on the miniDSP. The tune is at the level I had it before the switch.. now to continue learning the parametric EQ, and experimenting with slopes some more. Lots of power at my fingertips.


----------



## gckless

Just read all 37 pages. Wow. Incredible work.

Those planar's have me intrigued. Did you test either one of them for use in a 2-way system? You mentioned that you might when you switched amps somewhere back there, did you ever do that? 

I'm trying to put a system together now, 2-way, maybe crossed at around 2-2.5kHz. Trying for a louder setup than I believe you have, what kind of output can be reached with these tweeters? The Neo8's are a larger format and can handle more power at the same efficiency, so those are what I'm looking to use, but I am unsure of the upper frequency response. I was hoping you tested those. Are they usable as a tweeter in a 2-way?

Don't mean to thread jack, just looking for your input.


----------



## BowDown

gckless said:


> Just read all 37 pages. Wow. Incredible work.


Thanks man.



gckless said:


> Those planar's have me intrigued. Did you test either one of them for use in a 2-way system? You mentioned that you might when you switched amps somewhere back there, did you ever do that?


Yes I did.. I tried using the neo8 from 2k+.. it worked decent.. but above 10k the neo8 would need a good amount of EQ work to tame some of the peaks. I didn't feel the work was worth the reward. Just enabling the neo3 and running a bandpass on the neo8 was far easier. I may revisit this in the future now that my new processor makes muting drivers easy. 




gckless said:


> I'm trying to put a system together now, 2-way, maybe crossed at around 2-2.5kHz. Trying for a louder setup than I believe you have, what kind of output can be reached with these tweeters?


I'm not sure on the tweeters itself. I can prbly measure them for you at a later time. I know at near full tilt holding a db meter from the driverseat I hit about 92db. I'm sure if the tweeters were on-axis there would be a few more db available. Mine are very off-axis on the driverside.



gckless said:


> The Neo8's are a larger format and can handle more power at the same efficiency, so those are what I'm looking to use, but I am unsure of the upper frequency response. I was hoping you tested those. Are they usable as a tweeter in a 2-way?


People have used them as tweeters before. Check out threads by cvjoint. Just takes a bit of EQ work. I will be looking into this in the future as well.




gckless said:


> Don't mean to thread jack, just looking for your input.


 No problem man. Hope it helped.


----------



## phxdemon

Awesome install!


----------



## BowDown

phxdemon said:


> Awesome install!


Thanks man. First post on DIYMA even. :laugh:

The install seems to be never ending.

Overall I'm pretty pleased with the miniDSP, but am having issues of random 'dead' starts. Meaning I power it up, looks good, but no sound. Going to take some troubleshooting to figure that out.

I did pretty well at the 2x IASCA show.. placed 3rd of 5 in a very stacked pro-am class. I will be created a 'SQ' preset tune.. My bass overall was a bit hot and I lost a decent amount of points as a result.


----------



## BowDown

About sums up today's hour worth the work. After shutting off the neo3 tweeters, and dash sub I adjusted the crossover points so the neo8's were going from 900hz to 20khz. Midbass from 45hz to 900hz, and sub up to 45hz. I flipped around between crossover slopes till I found a combo I liked. Then proceeded to re-TA one pair at a time. Some quick EQ work, and wow is the stage so much tighter. Reminds me alot more of the Prius. Curious to see how it RTA's tomorrow or Wednesday.

miniDSP also added my suggestion into their 4x10HD plug-in! They added an increment capable text box under the gain sliders so you can now increment the gain by 0.1 increments, not 1.0 with the slider you had no idea where it was set previous because of the lack of a clear indicator.


----------



## gckless

BowDown said:


> About sums up today's hour worth the work. After shutting off the neo3 tweeters, and dash sub I adjusted the crossover points so the neo8's were going from 900hz to 20khz. Midbass from 45hz to 900hz, and sub up to 45hz. I flipped around between crossover slopes till I found a combo I liked. Then proceeded to re-TA one pair at a time. Some quick EQ work, and wow is the stage so much tighter. Reminds me alot more of the Prius. Curious to see how it RTA's tomorrow or Wednesday.
> 
> miniDSP also added my suggestion into their 4x10HD plug-in! They added an increment capable text box under the gain sliders so you can now increment the gain by 0.1 increments, not 1.0 with the slider you had no idea where it was set previous because of the lack of a clear indicator.


So you preferred the Neo8's all the way up versus crossing them to the Neo3's? People have said the Neo8's drop off pretty quick after about 12kHz, did you experience that?


----------



## BowDown

gckless said:


> So you preferred the Neo8's all the way up versus crossing them to the Neo3's? People have said the Neo8's drop off pretty quick after about 12kHz, did you experience that?


Yes I can tell by ear they are dropping pretty good up top. I am only 1hr into the full retune but I think there's alot of potential. Worst case I will enable the neo3's to pick up where the neo8's left off.

One thing to keep in mind is the neo8's tend to run wild about 3k-7k'ish... I have to dial them back in that range a good 3-4db. So in turn you will gain that up top.

Keep checking back for more updates throughout the week. I will be RTA'ing the setup Wednesday or Thursday. Going to work more by ear tomorrow.


----------



## gckless

BowDown said:


> Yes I can tell by ear they are dropping pretty good up top. I am only 1hr into the full retune but I think there's alot of potential. Worst case I will enable the neo3's to pick up where the neo8's left off.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is the neo8's tend to run wild about 3k-7k'ish... I have to dial them back in that range a good 3-4db. So in turn you will gain that up top.
> 
> Keep checking back for more updates throughout the week. I will be RTA'ing the setup Wednesday or Thursday. Going to work more by ear tomorrow.


That's awesome, definitely watching this man. I want to use one of the Neo's, but I'll be running a 2-way, so what you find will have a huge impact on what I run.


----------



## BowDown

One thing that's for sure.. even with a 48db slope anything below 900hz is subject to audible breakup @ 90-92db output level. (on the neo8).


----------



## goodstuff

Hey I gotta ask why the mini-dsp AND Carputer? 
Doesn't the carputer do anything and everything the mini dsp would do?


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Hey I gotta ask why the mini-dsp AND Carputer?
> Doesn't the carputer do anything and everything the mini dsp would do?


Car puter is only as good as the sound card. I have done the software tuning and it's a real *****. And it was glitchy. So I only use mine as a source. Hardware processing solutions are just cleaner and more reliable I've found. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Stay tuned. Stripping stereo back to neo8 mid/tweet, rs180 midbass, Boston G215 sub. Removing the 7996 and q1 tablet and replacing it with a double - din touch screen and mac mini. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> Stay tuned. Stripping stereo back to neo8 mid/tweet, rs180 midbass, Boston G215 sub. Removing the 7996 and q1 tablet and replacing it with a double - din touch screen and mac mini.


What about just an iPad mini? It does everything both of those could do by itself.

And if you remove the dash sub I might have to drive to NY and punch you in the kneecap.


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> What about just an iPad mini? It does everything both of those could do by itself.
> 
> And if you remove the dash sub I might have to drive to NY and punch you in the kneecap.


:laugh: 

So that's what it'll take to get ya up here? I may end up removing it... will have to see. The phasing issues that were resolved from cutting back on drivers is awesome. Need to work on getting more bass focus in the center of the stage though. I have an extra RS-180 now.. thinking of doing a tight bandpass in the dash sub enclosure and see if it helps or hurts.

Far as the iPad goes... I want to retain my Music Fidelity Soundcard. Really don't want to drop $400 on the iPad and then another $200 in accessories to get it digital out. 

If I play my cards right the setup should look like a factory navigation unit, and be a cleaner install in general.


----------



## n_olympios

Less is more, KISS and all that eh? 

Either way, I enjoy this thread very much and I'm sure others do as well. Keep up the good work.


----------



## BowDown

n_olympios said:


> Less is more, KISS and all that eh?
> 
> Either way, I enjoy this thread very much and I'm sure others do as well. Keep up the good work.


It truly is when you have drivers that can handle the spectrum in multiple ways. Kind allows you to manipulate the best of what you have.

I was beat at the last show by a Yaris w/L8 & L1's, and a low pro sealed sub in the back. At first was a little offended then I sat in and gave it a listen. Really did stage better than my car, and was cleaner. Made mine seem a bit cluttered and massive on the stage. 

Guess it's all about what you have to reference against. 

This thread is getting massive, but I think it's only fair to continue the build log in the same thread. :laugh:


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> This thread is getting massive, but I think it's only fair to continue the build log in the same thread. :laugh:



I agree. This thread should be a stick it has a massive amount of refference material and good info and allot different than allot of the other logs in the way you don't do the same things everybody else is doing st the time 
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BowDown

Let the fun begin.

New plans:
-Remove neo3 tweeters
-Remove Dash Sub
-Remove DVA-7996 HU
-Re-aim neo8's in Pillars
-Recover Pillars
-Modify stock Fusion Radio bezel to accept double-din screen @ cannibalize stock HU controls to utilize stock vol control for miniDSP & buttons for mac mini by patching into joycon steering wheel control boards extra channels. 
-Sell off Aura 675H 6-Channel amp and replace with another 2150 2-channel so all (3) 2150's can live in fold down rack. Or possibly just bridge up the 675H and eliminate one of the 2150's.
-Create fiberglass sub enclosure for boston g215 sub in either spare tire well, or driverside wall of trunk so amp rack can again be accessible.


----------



## IBcivic




----------



## BowDown

IBcivic said:


>


Big shocker eh!

Going to be able to make the next show?


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> New plans:
> -Remove Dash Sub


Prepare to have your kneecaps busted 



BowDown said:


> -Modify stock Fusion Radio bezel to accept double-din screen @ cannibalize stock HU controls to utilize stock vol control for miniDSP & buttons for mac mini by patching into joycon steering wheel control boards extra channels.


This sounds fun and interesting. I bet that will be cool when completed.



BowDown said:


> -Create fiberglass sub enclosure for boston g215 sub in either spare tire well, or driverside wall of trunk so amp rack can again be accessible.


So much more room on the passenger side. Yeah, yeah the jack is there but take the jack out and move it to the driver's side instead...eureka it fits!!! 

This is assuming that the amp rack is still accessible with stuff on the passenger's side.


----------



## IBcivic

BowDown said:


> Big shocker eh!
> 
> Going to be able to make the next show?


Might be in an *IB*journey(2013). ....more on this later


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Prepare to have your kneecaps busted


:laugh: Come to the next show and we'll talk about that. 




Notloudenuf said:


> This sounds fun and interesting. I bet that will be cool when completed.


Ya, I figure why not make a bit of OEM integration. Just need to figure out if the stock buttons are resistive, or if I will need to create a resistive network. 



Notloudenuf said:


> So much more room on the passenger side. Yeah, yeah the jack is there but take the jack out and move it to the driver's side instead...eureka it fits!!!
> 
> This is assuming that the amp rack is still accessible with stuff on the passenger's side.


Possibly... but I have my miniDSP over there. I may be able to shift things over to the driver-side area... Will have to do some measuring. I need all the space I can get.


----------



## goodstuff

whoa, very interested.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> whoa, very interested.


Indeed. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Been collecting parts:

-Mac Mini has been acquired and update
-Screen has arrived
-Power Supply is here
-Used stock radio (donor) bezel is here
-Bluetooth APT-X receiver/hands-free here/tested (works surprisingly well)
-Aura MR 2150 (to make 3 total) is on it's way
-Funky looking B/W Checkard Flag Pex is coming
-Ordering up some new power wire and SEM factory matching spray for the pillars after recovering. 

Still pondering replacing the dashmat with a different type... but may hold off till later in the revamp.


----------



## eviling

i like the ultra dash mat, thats what i used in my monte. but they all collect dust  blah. 

hope you enjoy that screen. can't wait to see it come to life again. I never did figuire out what the hell that usb was for, i think it was part of the origonal housing as a charger or power plug or something. I suspect a mic would work behind that meshed area though. 










it was accualy pretty nice. i just never was able to finish...procastanting and than i just got into trouble with **** i coudlnt do  idk maybe its time i call it a day in car audio.


----------



## BowDown

Ya, I would imagine the front USB is for plugging some kind of phone, or mini-usb memory stick? Would of been better to have a type-A usb connector there.


----------



## BowDown

Ok I'm looking for some design feedback... 

My current design will be a raised false floor in the trunk. The spare will have the 15" sub firing up, and in front of that (directly behind the seats) I will have the (3) MR2150's also flushed into the floor. I'm going to have removable covers to expose the sub w/reveal, and amps w/reveal for a little flash.

What I was wondering is all (3) amps will be in a row L to R... should I:

1) Run all (3) amps Face Up
2) Left amp Face up, Middle Amp Bottom Up w/Plexy (to show guts), Right amp Face Up
3) Left amp Bottom Up, Middle amp Face Up, Right amp Bottom Up

The guts aren't awesome, but are something nice to look at. I may add in some LED lighting for more effect. 

So which option?


----------



## gckless

BowDown said:


> Ok I'm looking for some design feedback...
> 
> My current design will be a raised false floor in the trunk. The spare will have the 15" sub firing up, and in front of that (directly behind the seats) I will have the (3) MR2150's also flushed into the floor. I'm going to have removable covers to expose the sub w/reveal, and amps w/reveal for a little flash.
> 
> What I was wondering is all (3) amps will be in a row L to R... should I:
> 
> 1) Run all (3) amps Face Up
> 2) Left amp Face up, Middle Amp Bottom Up w/Plexy (to show guts), Right amp Face Up
> 3) Left amp Bottom Up, Middle amp Face Up, Right amp Bottom Up
> 
> The guts aren't awesome, but are something nice to look at. I may add in some LED lighting for more effect.
> 
> So which option?


Option 3 for sure. I love seeing guts! I cut plexi literally yesterday for amp.


----------



## jcwgibson

Wow, took a few days to get through this. Very impressed with your tireless efforts, pretty sure my wife would have kicked me in the forehead Chuck Norris style by this point.

I've been playing with CA since I was a broke kid running a coustic 160 to a pair of 8's.
Recently did an install (Basic) on the wifes car, which, naturally, was padding to get really carried away on my Tundra soon. 

Just wanted to let you know from an R&D perspective, I'm fairly sure you've saved me a couple grand, about 32 band-aids, and some ideas I had, that you've de-bugged. THANKS.

Quick opinion, after hearing the (F### they're expensive) L8/L1 combo, how would you compare bang for buck with RS180's?

Keep up the great build!


----------



## BowDown

jcwgibson said:


> Wow, took a few days to get through this. Very impressed with your tireless efforts, pretty sure my wife would have kicked me in the forehead Chuck Norris style by this point.
> 
> I've been playing with CA since I was a broke kid running a coustic 160 to a pair of 8's.
> Recently did an install (Basic) on the wifes car, which, naturally, was padding to get really carried away on my Tundra soon.
> 
> Just wanted to let you know from an R&D perspective, I'm fairly sure you've saved me a couple grand, about 32 band-aids, and some ideas I had, that you've de-bugged. THANKS.
> 
> Quick opinion, after hearing the (F### they're expensive) L8/L1 combo, how would you compare bang for buck with RS180's?
> 
> Keep up the great build!


Thanks for the praise. Ya, the wife has been pretty patient overall. Most of the fabrication efforts are happening on lunch hour, or the occasional personal day off. Things have been alot harder with the addition of my daughter (money/time wise). 

Well I have only had limited exposure to the L1/L8 combo in a few different vehicles. They do have a nice clean sound with minimal effort.. but honestly I have heard better with less. It all comes down to installation/tuning/natural car response. I have no doubts my RS180 midbass is just as capable as the L8 in my vehicle.. They have definitely impressed me with their 45hz capabilities down low, nice punch of the kick drum, and smooth male vocals. Only thing I would say the L8 has over the RS180 is the upper range. The L8 is a superior driver when carrying the crossover point past 2.5khz. 

It all depends on what else you are running, and how much research & design effort you want to put in. 

HAT is too rich for my blood.


----------



## BowDown

Tis alive on the test bench. More software work for sure but the itunes and Bluetooth a2dp receiver/hands free is working great so far.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Ok I'm looking for some design feedback...
> 
> My current design will be a raised false floor in the trunk. The spare will have the 15" sub firing up, and in front of that (directly behind the seats) I will have the (3) MR2150's also flushed into the floor. I'm going to have removable covers to expose the sub w/reveal, and amps w/reveal for a little flash.
> 
> What I was wondering is all (3) amps will be in a row L to R... should I:
> 
> 1) Run all (3) amps Face Up
> 2) Left amp Face up, Middle Amp Bottom Up w/Plexy (to show guts), Right amp Face Up
> 3) Left amp Bottom Up, Middle amp Face Up, Right amp Bottom Up
> 
> The guts aren't awesome, but are something nice to look at. I may add in some LED lighting for more effect.
> 
> So which option?


I don't think I understand. Mounting them upside down( is this what you mean by bottom up?)? Seems like they would overheat if so. I've always been a fan of horizontal, flat mount layouts for longevity and heat concerns.


----------



## BowDown

I'm not concerned with heat on these amps. They barely get warm under the load I put them through. If needed I can add active cooling to the amp rack.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> I'm not concerned with heat on these amps. They barely get warm under the load I put them through. If needed I can add active cooling to the amp rack.


I'd still pick option 1.


----------



## BowDown

Tore apart the OEM Radio Control Unit. Looks like CanBus for me. :laugh:

So i'm going to ditch the board, and create a resistive ladder of momentary push buttons to re-purpose the buttons I want. The rest will be glued solid. Then I will patch this into channel B on my JoyCon EX steering wheel controller.


----------



## Neil_J

You have a pm. I would look for a module to decode the CAN bus, or interface the buttons with an Arduino (I can help you with that if you'd like). The end result would be much nicer, IMO, especially the knobs.


----------



## quietfly

wow this is a serious build too!!! looks really good


----------



## BowDown

Cut like butta on an industrial bandsaw. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quietfly

nice!!!


----------



## BowDown

quietfly said:


> nice!!!




Figure I need the real estate on the bezel for the double-din screen.. and I'm going to need to tap, or drill for new buttons anyway.. couple sparks cutting through the chip, but other than that it was butta.


----------



## quietfly

I'm jealous of all you guys that can work during lunch time. i sit in front of a computer and just run my tps reports..... some days i even get spunky and send them without cover letters......


----------



## goodstuff

quietfly said:


> wow this is a serious build too!!! looks really good


----------



## BowDown

quietfly said:


> I'm jealous of all you guys that can work during lunch time. i sit in front of a computer and just run my tps reports..... some days i even get spunky and send them without cover letters......


You run tps reports during your lunch hour? Lol



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Hegel122

Very sweet build...


----------



## Hdale85

I almost got a Fusion a couple weeks ago because of your sub install haha....

If you plan on using Centrafuse I hope you have more luck then I did. I never could get it all working right. They tend to have some rather buggy software that instead of fixing they would rather release newer versions that are even more buggy


----------



## BowDown

I will be using the 10.6.8 operating system. Itunes will be the main media player, and I'll have a few other apps on the dock bar. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

quietfly said:


> I'm jealous of all you guys that can work during lunch time. i sit in front of a computer and just run my tps reports..... some days i even get spunky and send them without cover letters......


A little bit late, but... 

Man, that is sig-worthy


----------



## BowDown

Project is kind of stagnet at the moment. I have been working with the mini software-wise, and collecting parts.

I did hack up the stock radio bezel, but am not finished with the hack enough to post pictures. Hopefully I will get some time to continue this week.

I shipped off the button panel to Neil_J. He's going to work his magic on it, and patch the OEM radio buttons into an Arduino controller so I can then program them to emulate keystrokes on the mini.


----------



## BowDown

Project is kind of stagnet at the moment. I have been working with the mini software-wise, and collecting parts.

I did hack up the stock radio bezel, but am not finished with the hack enough to post pictures. Hopefully I will get some time to continue this week.

I shipped off the button panel to Neil_J. He's going to work his magic on it, and patch the OEM radio buttons into an Arduino controller so I can then program them to emulate keystrokes on the mini.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Ok I'm looking for some design feedback...
> 
> My current design will be a raised false floor in the trunk. The spare will have the 15" sub firing up, and in front of that (directly behind the seats) I will have the (3) MR2150's also flushed into the floor. I'm going to have removable covers to expose the sub w/reveal, and amps w/reveal for a little flash.
> 
> What I was wondering is all (3) amps will be in a row L to R... should I:
> 
> 1) Run all (3) amps Face Up
> 2) Left amp Face up, Middle Amp Bottom Up w/Plexy (to show guts), Right amp Face Up
> 3) Left amp Bottom Up, Middle amp Face Up, Right amp Bottom Up
> 
> The guts aren't awesome, but are something nice to look at. I may add in some LED lighting for more effect.
> 
> So which option?


I would recommend either all 3 bottom up exposing guts or all 3 face up. Its a much cleaner look that way.


----------



## BowDown

Did a scaled sketch of my new amp rack/false floor. There are a couple wings that go into the wheel well area at the bottom of the floor that I didn't sketch.. but those will be charcoal carpet as well.

The recessed red section keeps changing in my mind.. I was thinking perforated leather like the inserts in my seats.. or maybe painted, or maybe stained oak flooring... I don't know.

Either way the amps, and sub will be flushed into the section, and the perimeter of the red section will have plexy and color changing led's. I will then have a carpeted panel that's reinforced with steel mesh to cover the area for normal daily use.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> The recessed red section keeps changing in my mind.. I was thinking perforated leather like the inserts in my seats.. or maybe painted, or *maybe stained oak flooring*... I don't know.
> 
> Either way the amps, and sub will be flushed into the section, and the perimeter of the red section will have plexy and color changing led's. I will then have a carpeted panel that's reinforced with steel mesh to cover the area for normal daily use.


 
I vote stained wood flooring. Hell yeah. Thats a seriously classy look. In fact, one of the nicest parts of your build 

By the way- This build is still one of my favorites on this site. I like the out of the box thinking with regard to equipment choices and application. I still want to hear this car someday...
I have some equipment changes of my own to totally revamp my install as well you may find interesting.

I'd still love to get to an Ipad mini interface and forego the oldschool head units. I just dont have the know-how to do it yet. I need to study up on some of these builds. 

-Steve


----------



## goodstuff

2nd the stained oak/


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> By the way- This build is still one of my favorites on this site. I like the out of the box thinking with regard to equipment choices and application. I still want to hear this car someday...


Thanks man.

Most of the show's I hit up are semi-local (Syracuse, NY). I will be hitting up the end of summer showdown again this year... I believe it was early September last year in Pottsville PA. Unless you're in the central NY area anytime before then. No problem-o.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> Most of the show's I hit up are semi-local (Syracuse, NY). I will be hitting up the end of summer showdown again this year... I believe it was early September last year in Pottsville PA. Unless you're in the central NY area anytime before then. No problem-o.


 
Sounds great, thanks!

I actually _*may*_ be in Syracuse this Saturday. Waiting to hear from the boss-man if I need to take the drive out. :surprised:


On another note...I know you mentioned missing the 31 band eq for tuning earlier...Have you considered fronting your 4x10 with a minidsp setup with the Graphic EQ firmware?


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Sounds great, thanks!
> 
> I actually _*may*_ be in Syracuse this Saturday. Waiting to hear from the boss-man if I need to take the drive out. :surprised:
> 
> 
> On another note...I know you mentioned missing the 31 band eq for tuning earlier...Have you considered fronting your 4x10 with a minidsp setup with the Graphic EQ firmware?


From what I understand the miniDSP 4x10 does not support the graphic EQ that the 2x4 did. Any more information on this?

Well my 2way front stage is still active.. but no sub. Prbly wouldn't be a good indication of how my system sounds this Saturday. :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> From what I understand the miniDSP 4x10 does not support the graphic EQ that the 2x4 did. Any more information on this?
> 
> Well my 2way front stage is still active.. but no sub. Prbly wouldn't be a good indication of how my system sounds this Saturday. :laugh:


 
Yeah, I'm referring to actually puting a 2x4 in front of the 4x10 so you can eq your outputs before they hit the 4x10. (Output from source to 2x4 with graphic EQ software, tune EQ on this unit and then from 2x4, run your outputs to the 4x10).

Are you using optical/toslink into the 4x10 currently or RCA's ?


----------



## BowDown

Ah I gotcha. Well I have 5 bands of parametric on the input side of the 4x10. Have been getting used to it. 

I'm using toslink for minidsp input. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Ah I gotcha. Well I have 5 bands of parametric on the input side of the 4x10. Have been getting used to it.
> 
> I'm using toslink for minidsp input.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Ahhh....ok
I was going to say, I have some extra MiniDSP's floating around here and I have the Graphic EQ software loaded on one as well. But it doesn't have a mini-digi installed for digital inputs. If you'd like to toy around with it (or even put a mini-digi on to expand your eq-ability), let me know. I can send it up your way to play with.

-Steve


----------



## BowDown

I will keep that in mind, but as of now I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I can pull off L/R tuning with just the 5 bands on both input/output. Going to be tougher now that I'm running a 2-way front stage. Alot of bands in the 900hz->20khz.


----------



## BowDown

Got wood?










Red Clear w/Gunmetal paint on amps.


----------



## goodstuff

I like the first one better.


----------



## captainobvious

Same here. Although the stain u used earlier in the build on the amp rack was realllly nice.


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Same here. Although the stain u used earlier in the build on the amp rack was realllly nice.


Ya, that was a mahogany stain on Cherry material though. A nice clear on the oak may give it that modern punch I'm looking for though.


----------



## BowDown

Thinking maybe a high metallic silver paint would make the amps blend/show better. The gray they come from the factory isn't as blingy as modern aluminum amps. I kind of like the billet look.










Also the wood I used as a reference has a mild yellowish tint on it. If I go natural I will just lacquer clear the wood. No tint.


----------



## captainobvious

Yup, looks like a very nice combination 

I'd either do them silve rlike that, or black. Black with a light walnut stain on the oak would look REALLY nice.


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Yup, looks like a very nice combination
> 
> I'd either do them silve rlike that, or black. Black with a light walnut stain on the oak would look REALLY nice.


Possibly. Would be sleak.. Just fear that indoor shows the details would be lost in the shadow of the trunk. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Aura NRT18-8 on it's way to me.  

Hello invert mount IB spare.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

BowDown said:


> Aura NRT18-8 on it's way to me.
> 
> Hello invert mount IB spare.


Holy IB'd 18 Batman :surprised:

Isn't that the same thing Highly is doing?


----------



## BowDown

No idea? Here I thought it was unique. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quality_sound

I like the second one better.


----------



## BowDown

quality_sound said:


> I like the second one better.


As in the red stained oak?


----------



## quality_sound

Yessir


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Aura NRT18-8 on it's way to me.
> 
> Hello invert mount IB spare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Balls. Did you get this off ebay? I saw one listed the other day with the neo magnet.


----------



## BowDown

Ya. Guy has like 6 more. But is only listing one at a time apparently. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

Niiiiiiiice!


----------



## BowDown

Got alot done in a couple hours tonight. Most of my measurements are set and did some sub floor cutting.  








































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

Did you get the sub yet?


----------



## BowDown

Na. Seller shipped it parcel Usps. Chances of it showing up in one piece is dwindling. I think tracking says 19th?



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

I know the cuts are a bit rough but all will be covered in carpet and oak flooring. That's where I will take time to be meticulous. 

Working out a deal with my boss on some 1/2" thick white plastic sheathing. I plan to use 3 plys of it for the bottom baffle/vent and another play on the bottle for a removable piece to change the foam filter post installation. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## req

man- must be nice to have that kind of work space -_-


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> man- must be nice to have that kind of work space -_-


True. Would be even better if it was in my garage.. but the extra hour between travel, and getting in/out of the building definitely gets made up with all the tools @ my disposal.


----------



## goodstuff

x2 on the shop jealously. Trade for a worn out cheap jigsaw and a wobbly bench?


----------



## BowDown

Sub arrived.

Packaging was terrible as expected. I could hear the motor clank on the floor as the USPS lady delivered it. After a quick inspection and cone check it appears that somehow the basket survived without breaking or tweaking. I haven't applied power to the sub yet... but it may be ok.

Here's some pics of the beast!


----------



## captainobvious

That thing is a tank... 
Here's hoping USPS didn't screw you. Let us know once you get it powered up and tested. I'm looking forward to seeing the sub baffle and floor work progress.


----------



## quietfly

hmm 18 inches of low end love...

This kind of sounds so wrong....

:laugh:


----------



## goodstuff

Is the dust cap pushed in? Sucks.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Is the dust cap pushed in? Sucks.


Ya, I didn't know that was pushed in till I opened the box. Some tape should allow me to pop it back in shape. It's going to be invert mounted anyway.


----------



## goodstuff

Or a vacuum.


----------



## mellephants

Or a razor blade, some glue, and a new dust cap


----------



## sinister-kustoms

Wow, that thing is awesome! Sucks about the dustcap, but like you say, you'll never see it inverted. Looking forward to seeing it installed


----------



## thisgsx

Wow! I wish I had the skills to do what you're doing. Awesome progress so far.


----------



## BowDown

Couple hours progress last night. The floor is a bit taller than I had hoped. Going to see if there's a way to reduce the height a bit... but I'm going to sand the oak and hopefully start mockup on that the next couple lunch hours.


----------



## goodstuff

mellephants said:


> Or a razor blade, some glue, and a new dust cap


Or an avocado, an ice pick and a snorkel.


----------



## BowDown

Start of the oak dry run.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Your over a 1000 posts congrats !!


----------



## BowDown

Syracuse Customs said:


> Your over a 1000 posts congrats !!


Build had been going on for a long time. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## ryanr7386

goodstuff said:


> Or an avocado, an ice pick and a snorkel.


Ohhh no, Chicken **** and goats milk! Mix thoroughly and spread with a spoon! It'll stink so bad you won't want to get near it to even notice!!!!  :laugh:


----------



## goodstuff

ryanr7386 said:


> Ohhh no, Chicken **** and goats milk! Mix thoroughly and spread with a spoon! It'll stink so bad you won't want to get near it to even notice!!!!  :laugh:


What?


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> What?


If ya don't mind.. Take it to pm. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> If ya don't mind.. Take it to pm.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Whoa post nazi?!


----------



## Neil_J

So weren't you doing something with your OEM head unit a while back? Button integration or something? <nudge> <nudge>


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> So weren't you doing something with your OEM head unit a while back? Button integration or something? <nudge> <nudge>




Yes sir... that's alot of stuff in the works. I have the button panel all reassembled, programmed, and tested. I'll see if I can get some info posted here tomorrow. 

Not alot of free time these days. I'm hoping this week to get the amp rack cover done/mocked up.. Then it's onto sub baffle rings/filter cap. After that it's wiring of the new rack... Not sure if the mac mini will make the next SQ comp on the 21st. May just have to compete with the current Q1. Lots of work to go on the bezel, wiring, and brackets to throw that into the mix.


----------



## BowDown

Hopefully Saturday or Sunday I'll get some quality time to work on relocating the vapor canister. That's going to hold up this whole project.


----------



## Neil_J

BowDown said:


> Yes sir... that's alot of stuff in the works. I have the button panel all reassembled, programmed, and tested. I'll see if I can get some info posted here tomorrow.
> 
> Not alot of free time these days. I'm hoping this week to get the amp rack cover done/mocked up.. Then it's onto sub baffle rings/filter cap. After that it's wiring of the new rack... Not sure if the mac mini will make the next SQ comp on the 21st. May just have to compete with the current Q1. Lots of work to go on the bezel, wiring, and brackets to throw that into the mix.


That's a lot of work a guy in his 70's :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> That's a lot of work a guy in his 70's :laugh:


On top of a day job and other obligations. I'm a late bloomer.  



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Here's the writeup promised about my button panel modifications/integrations.











When browsing NeilJ's awesome Mini carPC build I was in awe of his abilities to re-purpose the OEM radio buttons into a USB/Bluetooth keyboard. Well after some PM's back and forth we came to some design agreements and I shipped off the button panel to him. Not before running it through a bandsaw to eliminate the buttons I didn't need! Hahaha. So not only did I send him a button panel, I sent him one that had been brutally hacked! Hey, I didn't say this was going to be easy Neil. 











The scope of work was to reuse all stock buttons, (2) rotary encoders w/buttons & the arrow pad by way of an Arduino Leonardo controller. The Leonardo version has the ability to emulate a USB Keyboard/Mouse. So this would foot the bill for what I'm looking to do with the buttons & mac mini.


After what looks to be a ton of work I ended up with the following:



























After figuring out what was what Neil desoldered what was left to the original controller chip, then soldered some 30ga trace wire where needed to interface with the button matrix. He also broke out the button under the VOL encoder so I could wire this directly to the mac mini power switch. He also reverse engineered the LED circuit on the board and wired in the proper resistors to make it 12v friendly. Given that my stock button panel was originally CANBUS this proved to be the easiest solution to reverse engineering the button panel.


Next up Neil took his 'Sketch' (Arduino SDK) from his Mini project and adjusted the code to match up with the buttons/encoders on my button panel. This proved to be a great start as I have never programmed in Sketch prior to this. So once I received the button panel back I went to work learning how Sketch works. It's basically 'C' programming. There's a Main() loop in which just loops forever. Within that loop you can define subroutines to scan for button changes and do resulting actions. In an effort to not duplicate work I created a Sudo sheet of what buttons I would like what..











From there I modified Neil's code to perform these actions and troubleshoot my encoders knack for doubling the result. Basically Ford designed the encoder to have a nice ratchet like feel.. but there's actually an encoder position between the ratchet bumps. If you turn the encoder slow enough you can tell at the top of the 'bump' is another position in the encoder. A quick incremented integer and IF/Else took care of this.











From there I determined I really didn't like macOS when it came to custom programming. Sure there's Apple Script, but for me in Windows there's 100% compatibility with software/usb hardware.. and there's VB .net.  While some don't like VB, for me it's cake to create console/windows apps to 'script' Windows events. For example I wrote a couple apps... One being a Windows app that runs on the left side of the screen. It reads an INI file which I put a list of full exe paths. From there onOpen it visits the exe, pulls the default icon out, then creates a dynamic list of the apps I want. This is kind of like a desktop icon on steroids. From there I can interpret custom things on a per icon bases. For example I can tell my program to put an optical drive eject button on the list.. and it will assign the correct code to eject the media. Or display select control panel icons. The big bonus is due to my miniDSP software requiring 1024x768 and my native screen resolution being 1280x720.. I have my program change the windows screen resolution prior to launching the miniDSP software, then changing back after I close. Just automates some steps.


Next custom program is a console app. When using the AM/FM|CD|AUX|SIRIUS buttons it would launch the software just fine.. but if another program was running I would have to press the close button prior to pushing the button. Kind of seemed like it would defeat the convenience of the button itself. So I wrote a console program that reads an INI process names. So when I launch the application I give it the full exe path of the program I wish to open, it then reads the INI and gracefully closes all apps listed in the INI and then opens the program I wanted. That way the only program I have open is the button I pressed.


For volume I found an application called 3RVX. It runs in the system tray and allows you to assign hotkeys to control main system volume. I love this app.. it allows you to skin the headsup display, and also define a percentage to adjust the system volume per hotkey press. So I can now make my volume control as variable as needed.


I really have to thank NeilJ for all his hard work with the button panel! I feel bad the project seemed to grow a bit from what we originally described.. but he did an awesome job with the hardware modifications and the software boilerplate. You've got some madd skills man. Keep it up!


I will post a demo video of the carPC & Button panel a bit later today. I'm not much of a camera guy but I will try to show you everything described above.


----------



## WR Sugar

How do you like the Neo8 by itself, without the Neo3?


----------



## Neil_J

Glad it worked out 

We're raising the bar of OEM integration, one mad scientist project at a time :laugh: The wireless Bluetooth keyboard emulation that I'm doing in my install is going pretty darn good, I need to update my build log sometime soon.


----------



## BowDown

WR Sugar said:


> How do you like the Neo8 by itself, without the Neo3?


The change has been great. I don't miss the neo3. The stage clarity has been awesome. The neo8 really does work well from 800+.


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> Glad it worked out
> 
> We're raising the bar of OEM integration, one mad scientist project at a time :laugh: The wireless Bluetooth keyboard emulation that I'm doing in my install is going pretty darn good, I need to update my build log sometime soon.


Hell ya man. Would be kind of sad (in a way) if someone mistakes the install for OEM though.


----------



## BowDown

Lame Video as promised!







:laugh:

I didn't show every button, but it's tough to film a videoclip with the mini @ work.


----------



## Neil_J

Great, now get back to work!


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> Great, now get back to work!


:laugh: Tru.

During lunch I got 1/2 the flooring glued/stapled down to the subfloor. Will finish it up after work.


----------



## bbfoto

NICE work guys! Looking forward to seeing this IN YOUR CAR.  So like Neil said, Get Back to Work! 

Seriously...great stuff.


----------



## WR Sugar

BowDown said:


> The change has been great. I don't miss the neo3. The stage clarity has been awesome. The neo8 really does work well from 800+.



Good to know. I've bumped mine to 900 because i was lifting the low end to much, but, I'm free air (on axis.) Give it a go. The front and back waves xcel each other out at 90deg and eliminate most glass reflection. The spatial advantage is difficult to describe. Suffice it to say... I'm ruined.


----------



## BowDown

WR Sugar said:


> Good to know. I've bumped mine to 900 because i was lifting the low end to much, but, I'm free air (on axis.) Give it a go. The front and back waves xcel each other out at 90deg and eliminate most glass reflection. The spatial advantage is difficult to describe. Suffice it to say... I'm ruined.


Very cool man. I did try them dipole for a bit.. but I do prefer them off axis firing across. Just gives more depth to the stage.


----------



## ecbmxer

Really awesome! All these Arduino threads make me wish I had a carpc to do something with!

You have a full on carpc with the minidsp. I wonder if it would be possible to run something like a Raspberry Pi, whose sole function was to display the minidsp software on a monitor. Although I think those only run Linux so not sure the minidsp software would run. Sorry not trying to get your thread off track....


----------



## BowDown

ecbmxer said:


> Really awesome! All these Arduino threads make me wish I had a carpc to do something with!
> 
> You have a full on carpc with the minidsp. I wonder if it would be possible to run something like a Raspberry Pi, whose sole function was to display the minidsp software on a monitor. Although I think those only run Linux so not sure the minidsp software would run. Sorry not trying to get your thread off track....


This is true. The main issue is Adobe AIR & USB. The plugin will run on any Adobe AIR compatible platform.. but when you use AIR to connect to the miniDSP via USB is where you run into compatibility problems.


----------



## BowDown

Oak is glued and stapled down! 

Next up is trimming the ends, cutting the sub hole, and then a bit of light sanding/edge routing. 

Then I hand it off to my father to spray a few layers of automotive clear coat.










Then onto sub box and vents. 


Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

bbfoto said:


> NICE work guys! *Looking forward to seeing this IN YOUR CAR*.


OK, now you're simply asking too much :laugh:


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> OK, now you're simply asking too much :laugh:


Tru. I'd love to see it in my car too. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

Nice job, guys. I finally got my Arduino to intercept my steering wheel controls, and I managed to get the rotary encoder off the board of my BitOne DRC (after A LOT of work, and about 8 inches of desoldering braid). 

I'm a huge fan of factory integration, so the stuff you and Neil are doing is pretty cool to me. 

Can't wait to see the wood floor done too.

Yes, Neil, you *DO* need to update your thread. lol

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Well I took my time measuring and triple checked. Was a pain to mark the hole perfectly centered but I got it. Will leave 3/4" lip over sub box walls. 

I kinda wish a couple pieces were layed out differently but oh well. It'll work.



















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Well I took my time measuring and triple checked. Was a pain to mark the hole perfectly centered but I got it. Will leave 3/4" lip over sub box walls.
> 
> I kinda wish a couple pieces were layed out differently but oh well. It'll work.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


What kind of airspace do you need for this sub?
Is the oak going to lay flat in the trunk or is it going to be a vertical wall?


----------



## BowDown

Oak will lay flat like a floor. There will be a carpeted piece around the perimeter and a removable carpet piece that will cover the oak for daily use. Amps go in the 3 square openings. Sub will be visible through the hole in the oak. You will see the motor structure because the cone will be firing through a 12" vent in the spare tire floor. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Air space? All you got. I think the sealed box is like 14ft3 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Air space? All you got. I think the sealed box is like *14ft3 *
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


LOL. I can't wait to see it. So are you losing the spare? 
Running this IB then?


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> LOL. I can't wait to see it. So are you losing the spare?
> Running this IB then?


Tru tru 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Relocating was a big negative... But I was able to create some drop brackets to give me enough breathing room without becoming a hazard. I will paint the brackets black when I cut the hole.

























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## mattyjman

did I miss something... are you going IB like Highly did in his VW? that's badass man...


----------



## BowDown

mattyjman said:


> did I miss something... are you going IB like Highly did in his VW? that's badass man...


True.

Aura 1808 IB from the spare tire well.


----------



## mattyjman

HOLY CHIT... I've been watching your builds every since you did the dash sub... still going ....  Looking forward to seeing how this turns out


----------



## BowDown

Circle is cut and nipped off the edge. Then I gave the top a 50grit belt sand. Tomorrow I will switch to 120grit and finish the cuts.


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Ah the joys of custom programming.  

I just added an automatic screen brightness adjustment function to my dockBar application. It reads a csv export of last year's sunrise sunset times and compares the current system time... If it's daylight it's full brightness, dark it's half, and within 20min of either it adjusts accordingly each min till full adjustment. 

I also added auto/full/half buttons for override. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

That's sweet. One of the things I'm looking at with my project is that I can add functions by rewriting the code. Currently, my plan will be to make my Mode button function normally by pressing it, but if you hold it down it acts like a shift button and lets me access EQ presets...but I'll worry about writing that part when I get the basic stuff working.

Out of curiosity, could you have simply read a light sensor with the Arduino and used it to react to ACTUAL conditions?

Jay


----------



## BowDown

I'm sure you can do it with a photo sensor and some logic to delay changes. Otherwise you could be in for a strobe effect driving on an overcast day, or in the city. :laugh:

I figured this was a nice simple way to implement some screen brightness. If I need to override the button is easily accessible.


----------



## BowDown

Updates. Did more sanding. Just have some wood filler here and there and she'll be ready for clear.























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## phxdemon

Nice work! How did you get the circle so round for the sub opening? Steady hand and a jigsaw?


----------



## BowDown

phxdemon said:


> Nice work! How did you get the circle so round for the sub opening? Steady hand and a jigsaw?


Tru. Jig saw and a dark trace line. Didn't have a circle jig that large. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## mattyjman

your circle makes those amps look tiny...


----------



## BowDown

mattyjman said:


> your circle makes those amps look tiny...


Tru. The squares are 10" and the circle is 21"  



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## phxdemon

BowDown said:


> Tru. Jig saw and a dark trace line. Didn't have a circle jig that large. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


With a steady hand like that who needs a router? lol


----------



## captainobvious

That's looking sweet. Can't wait to see the wood finished. It's gonna look purdy...


----------



## BowDown

More woodwork today. I finished the sanding then applied some really crazy grain filler stuff I got from my boss. Maybe another touch up coat tomorrow and it's ready for clear.

I also modified one of my amps (middle one) because my space for the middle amp was 1/8 too small to fit the amp between the outside amps. 























































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## mattyjman

looks nice... any other wood treatments in the install at all?


----------



## BowDown

No. The rest of the interior is fairly modern kind of sporty. Less is more I guess. 


Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

Vibration much? WoW....if it survived the band saw those amps must be built pretty soild.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Vibration much? WoW....if it survived the band saw those amps must be built pretty soild.


No vibration issues really? Cut as smooth as butta. You apparently have never used a thick bladed industrial bandsaw.


----------



## BowDown

Spent 8 hours on the sub woofer baffle/enclosure. It's pretty much ready to bolt in.. Just need to find the time to do it. 

Here's some pictures to see how everything went. Wow my arm is ragged from all the drilling. Lol. 











































































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Wow! Fantastic handiwork as always. How will this be protected from the elements? I really love the concept and execution so far, FWIW.


----------



## BowDown

The bottom will be exposed. It will be just below the spare tire well. Partially protected by a heatshield and evap canister. Lol. 

The oiled filter will keep the air clean and water free. 

Stainless hardware so I can replace the filter when needed. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## mattyjman

dude, nice work. 

i think it's cool you'll have to "change your filter" for your sub... i know its dumb, but in the right thought, it sounds pretty badass actually. 

all sillyness aside... i thought i was doing something crazy... i would love to hear this one day.


----------



## tintbox

looking good.


----------



## BowDown

Thanks guys. I scheduled some time Saturday morning to get the car on the lift for installation. Hopefully my existing tune is close. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

Oh lord. I just saw the amp mutilation pictures. You're an assassin with that bandsaw. 


Great work as always.


----------



## eviling

yeah but that subs not gonna last like that, especily if you start driving around this month with it like that..


----------



## BowDown

eviling said:


> yeah but that subs not gonna last like that, especily if you start driving around this month with it like that..


U missed the air cleaner eh? 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## eviling

BowDown said:


> U missed the air cleaner eh?
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


yeah XD guess so.


----------



## BowDown

Tomorrow morning is the moment of truth. I hope all the work and semi-perminate modification is worth it. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Didn't get time to wire up the sub amp. Will do a temporary wiring job for the competition tomorrow morning. Lol. Here's pics from today's work:














































Missing picture of the sub bolted in. Ran out of time. Will post a picture of that tomorrow. Along with initial listening impressions. 


Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Notloudenuf

Oh dear Lord


----------



## mattyjman

whatever that is hanging under the sub, do you expect to have it rattle? 

pics of the sub installed please


----------



## phxdemon

taking "going all out" to a new level!


----------



## BowDown

mattyjman said:


> whatever that is hanging under the sub, do you expect to have it rattle?
> 
> pics of the sub installed please


Unfortunately it's a mammoth evap charcoal canister. I could not find a way to relocate it. It shouldn't make any noise. Also kind of shields the vent. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Very happy with the sub! Basic tune on it and I feel it's a great improvement. 

Here's a pic of what it currently looks like.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

That's just Cwazy!


----------



## BowDown

Tru. Very happy with the equipment now to finish the install cosmetically. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## derickveliz

*BowDown,

It was very nice to meet you, and many thank yous for letting me have a taste of you install, sounds awesome!*

and I feel very lucky to have you sit in my car, Thank you for taking the time.
I appreciate it a lot. It does means a lot for me.












Thank you,
Derick


----------



## BowDown

derickveliz said:


> *BowDown,
> 
> It was very nice to meet you, and many thank yous for letting me have a taste of you install, sounds awesome!*
> 
> and I feel very lucky to have you sit in my car, Thank you for taking the time.
> I appreciate it a lot. It does means a lot for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Derick


No problem man. I appreciate the props, it's been a long journey. :laugh:

I like what you have going with the install. Alot of potential there. Just need to write down your current settings and get to experimenting with crossover settings, and EQ work. 

I know your system was setup for daily driving, but next time play the game a bit a lower the sub level down. Would yield you a good 10 points I'm sure. Sometimes ya just gotta play the game. 

BTW: I kicked my sub up another 3db before I left .


----------



## BowDown

Bit more tuning is on the horizon. My lunch hrs for the next week or so is going to be taken up with other projects. 

Next up will be getting the amp secured down to the new amp rack in the trunk.. and then back to the radio bezel/screen bezel integration. 

I already test fit the mini in the center console and it's going to work very well.


----------



## BowDown

More updates of sorts:


-Sold the neo8-PDR drivers. I just received the replacement neo8-s drivers. Why you ask? neo8-s is based off the neo10 enhanced design. This increases the low end of the driver from 700hz to about 400hz.  More info up top! Wow these things are alot heavier too .

-I received the broken Behringer DCX2496 DSP from Goodstuff yesterday. She's up and running now. So I ordered some XLR to RCA cables, and an USB to Serial Adapter. I'm going to demo the unit against my miniDSP and see which I like better. The other one will be sold. (I have a feeling that will be the miniDSP 4x10HD in a box)

-I gave the filter a once over (it doesn't have oil treatment on it yet because I miscut it and have been waiting for the new filter to arrive). It looks clean despite the rain we have gotten recently. I believe the EVAP Canister and large heatshield over the exhaust/gas tank area is to thank for this.

Really want to get the mini installed for the 6/16 show... but I have relay for life coming up the first weekend of June.. and alot of my efforts will be going there.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## sydmonster

wooo.... products envy!


----------



## BowDown

sydmonster said:


> wooo.... products envy!


Tru tru. Lots of products to install... No time to do it. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## req

wow justin. you are still working hard as ever 

looks like highly wont be the only one with an 18 in his car. haha!

why the big duct around the sub? just for looks after the floor goes on?


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> wow justin. you are still working hard as ever
> 
> looks like highly wont be the only one with an 18 in his car. haha!
> 
> why the big duct around the sub? just for looks after the floor goes on?


Yes. It's more for looks than anything.

I figure this way I can pack around the sub enclosure for acoustics.

It will make more sense after the oak flooring is installed. There is a 3/4" lip that will overhang the ductwork and allow LED lighting as well as a finished look.


----------



## gckless

This makes me want to scrap my Vifa NE25's and get the Neo-8's so bad.


----------



## BowDown

gckless said:


> This makes me want to scrap my Vifa NE25's and get the Neo-8's so bad.


 Do it!

I will be swapping out the Neo8-PDR's during lunch hour.


----------



## gckless

BowDown said:


> Do it!
> 
> I will be swapping out the Neo8-PDR's during lunch hour.


I'm just now sanding down my pods for the NE's. I'll probably get these in and roll with them for a bit, but if I ever decide to change, you can bet I'll be using the Neo-8's! This build log is fantastic, incredibly useful info in here. Congrats!


----------



## BowDown

Took the neo8 PDR's out today. Wow. The left driver had most of the magnets shifted all over the place. WTF? Needless to say my tune is ****ed now with the new neo8-s's. :laugh:

What sucks worse is loosing the money I was paid for that driver. 

Guess it explains why my L/R EQ was always a bit odd.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Took the neo8 PDR's out today. Wow. The left driver had most of the magnets shifted all over the place. WTF? Needless to say my tune is ****ed now with the new neo8-s's. :laugh:
> 
> What sucks worse is loosing the money I was paid for that driver.
> 
> Guess it explains why my L/R EQ was always a bit odd.


Hmm...now I'm really, really confused....how DID you make that snare hit sound better in your car than mine....with a ****ed up tweeter taboot/


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Hmm...now I'm really, really confused....how DID you make that snare hit sound better in your car than mine....with a ****ed up tweeter taboot/


Skills!


----------



## subwoofery

BowDown said:


> Skills!


Luck! 



Kelvin


----------



## req

bummer to see that. hope it does not happen to the new ones


----------



## captainobvious

Damn that's crazy. I wonder how the magnets shifted like that.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the NEO8S.


-Steve


----------



## BowDown

My only guess is heat and vibration. Lol. We'll see how these survive. Lots of tuning needed. My left driver is at least 3db hot now. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Thanks! Now I know what is most likely wrong with the stage in my Niece's '60 Ford F-100 pickup. It's the ranch "hay hauler" truck and gets driven on some rough washboard dirt roads.


----------



## BowDown

Could be. Did some minor tweaking on the drive in this morning. Had to lower down the left driver 6.5db, and the right 1db. I dropped the crossover to 350hz @ 36db. Stage is pretty tight. Throws the EQ'ing out the window though.. but it's a good start.


----------



## BowDown

While the install is kind of on hold.. I have been thinking... Uh oh.

I'm considering the idea of ditching the mac mini, touch screen, and power supply.. and running a 7" Android powered tablet w/HDMI Audio Extractor. That way I can remove the unit for security, and would also provide a sleak install.

The downside to this is I need to add-on a bluetooth module to the Arduino so I can transfer my OEM controls and steering wheel controls to the tablet. 

HDMI Extractor has been ordered. I will test the SQ output using my existing nook HD+ tablet.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> While the install is kind of on hold.. I have been thinking... Uh oh.
> 
> I'm considering the idea of ditching the mac mini, touch screen, and power supply.. and running a 7" Android powered tablet w/HDMI Audio Extractor. That way I can remove the unit for security, and would also provide a sleak install.
> 
> The downside to this is I need to add-on a bluetooth module to the Arduino so I can transfer my OEM controls and steering wheel controls to the tablet.
> 
> HDMI Extractor has been ordered. I will test the SQ output using my existing nook HD+ tablet.


Allow me to be blunt....I've never cared for the way your dash looks with the monitor and stuff popping out....sleek would be nice.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Allow me to be blunt....I've never cared for the way your dash looks with the monitor and stuff popping out....sleek would be nice.


Welcome to the first generation of my install.

2nd generation was flushed LCD.

3rd will be flushed tablet tray. So there will be like a dent in the bezel and 4 corner catches that wrap around the tablet. Rest of the clutter of wiring and such will be hidden.

While I agree the Q1 tablet is bulky and unsightly at times.. it's very practical having the arm to adjust the position for sunlight, and comfort.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Welcome to the first generation of my install.
> 
> 2nd generation was flushed LCD.
> 
> 3rd will be flushed tablet tray. So there will be like a dent in the bezel and 4 corner catches that wrap around the tablet. Rest of the clutter of wiring and such will be hidden.
> 
> While I agree the Q1 tablet is bulky and unsightly at times.. it's very practical having the arm to adjust the position for sunlight, and comfort.


I saw some terminals in the dash last time around and guessed you still had the big arm thingy.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> I saw some terminals in the dash last time around and guessed you still had the big arm thingy.


Ya, I would have no tunes if I removed the original car computer from dash. So I'm going to keep that there while I work on the next generate outside the car.


----------



## captainobvious

I'm curious, what subs were you looking at for the IB installation besides the Aura? I've been searching around for something with great cone area that I can stuff in the spare well in an IB configuration as well. Right now it's looking like an AE as I havent seen much else that impressed. The w15GTi is nice too, but mounting depth is rediculous.


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> I'm curious, what subs were you looking at for the IB installation besides the Aura? I've been searching around for something with great cone area that I can stuff in the spare well in an IB configuration as well. Right now it's looking like an AE as I havent seen much else that impressed. The w15GTi is nice too, but mounting depth is rediculous.


Mostly AE, Dayton HO, Pyle (blue flame)... Aura NS series was also on the list.


----------



## BowDown

I'd say at almost 13" mounting depth the NRT is no picnic either. :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> I'd say at almost 13" mounting depth the NRT is no picnic either. :laugh:


Yeah no kidding! lol 

Another thing I wanted to find out is how do you determine how much venting space you need to simulate your IB environment? I know that you want more than 4 times VAS for airspace, but when using a vent like you've fabricated, how do you determine the amount of vent area will provide no restriction/acoustic suspension effect?

EDIT: also, I contacted John at AE about the possibility of an 18" IB, but he can't make an IB version using the existing TD18 frame. Oh well...guess a 15" will have to do...It would have been nice to capitalize on the space and get as much cone area as possible for best efficiency.


----------



## BowDown

Rule of thumb is 2/3rds the cone area or more. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Bench testing the new setup. I will use a smaller 7" nook but for now my 9" is a good indication. Need to get a 5v power supply for the hdmi extractor.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## req

neat!

does that work with specific android models, or does is the audio extractor specific to a tablet?

how are you going to handle power on\off? DSP? crossovers? equalization?

thats why i didnt go with the tablet... mainly power on\off + digital audio output ...


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> neat!
> 
> does that work with specific android models, or does is the audio extractor specific to a tablet?


The J-Tech audio extractor is HDMI universal. It gives you Toslink, SPDIF digital out in 2CH or 5.1CH, and analog 1/8" stereo. Along with HDMI pass-through if needed. Very niece piece so far. Runs on 5v 2A DC.

Not too sure on SQ till I get it in the car via SPDIF.




req said:


> how are you going to handle power on\off? DSP? crossovers? equalization?
> 
> thats why i didnt go with the tablet... mainly power on\off + digital audio output ...


My Nook HD wakes up on charger power so as long as the charger is fed switched voltage I'm good there. As far as sleep I just need to change the power settings to sleep the tablet within 30 seconds of being off charger. I will get more into that as I prep the actual unit. The nook HD 7" is on order.

For DSP I'm going to try the DCX2496 and the miniDSP as standalone DSP. No need to complicate things. One thing that sucks about android is no software tuning options for either DSP I have... but the DCX2496 has the ability to tune it via the controls on the face. Otherwise I will have to bring a windows laptop with me for tuning. (or my old Samsung Q1 WinXP UMPC that is pretty much worthless will serve as a nice Windows tuning unit)

As android has matured there are alot more tweaks and hacks out there to make it a viable carPC option.

I'm going to add the bluetooth modem onto my Arduino Leonardo so I can pair it to the Nook HD and emulate various keyboard commands/volume control. 

To retain a physical power button I'm thinking of cracking the case on the Nook and wiring in a quick pigtail that will tie back to the power button on the OEM controls. Or an even sleeker solution might be to use a small solenoid that when energized would physically push the tablet power button when triggered on the OEM panel?


----------



## BowDown

2mm 0 5W Push Type Motion Solenoid Electromagnet DC 5V | eBay


----------



## JayinMI

One thing about tablets, I see you're using a Nook, and some people are running Kindles. Do you have to do anything special (like rooting a phone) to make it work with other software? I was under the impression that they were running a very limited Android firmware. I sure hope I'm wrong. lol

Jay


----------



## BowDown

I rooted the one in the picture. But since I bought that Nook on black Friday they have licensed all Nooks for Google play. So any new Nook, or one with the 2.1.0 update is a full tablet w/Nook benefits. 

Best of both. Nook's have great hardware for the money. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

Looks great, man. I'm basically doing the same thing with the new Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 3G/Phone/Wifi (GT-N5100). ...Designing a custom mount for it now. I've got an old, rooted Nook Color, but I wanted updated hardware.


----------



## BowDown

Not much of an update really but here goes:

I temp installed the HDMI Extractor and Nook HD. So far so good. Been a few glitches though. One is getting the power management to cooperate with the car turning on and off. Think I have this straight, but it's kind of a custom take on android power management. 

Another large hurdle is that not all apps can control volume over HDMI. As I found when I scared the crap out of my 14month old daughter trying to play Toddler Radio on Pandora. :laugh: So I have ordered a 6 channel motorized potentiometer, some rca jacks, project box, and wiring to make a 6 channel passive volume control box. This will work on the miniDSP or the DCX2496 (non-balanced). 

I also picked up a bluetooth modem for the arduino that I'm using to interface the OEM controls. This will allow me to wirelessly connect the radio controls that are now an emulated keyboard into whatever bluetooth ready tablet I have in the car. The arduino will also be controlling the motorized potentiometer. That way when I adjust the volume using the radio control knob it adjusts the volume in the trunk.  

Lots of planning really. No time to really do anything till after 6/8.

I did get a chance to swap out one of my temp amps that was having issues with it's new replacement. Small steps I guess.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Not much of an update really but here goes:
> 
> I temp installed the HDMI Extractor and Nook HD. So far so good. Been a few glitches though. One is getting the power management to cooperate with the car turning on and off. Think I have this straight, but it's kind of a custom take on android power management.
> 
> Another large hurdle is that not all apps can control volume over HDMI. As I found when I scared the crap out of my 14month old daughter trying to play Toddler Radio on Pandora. :laugh: So I have ordered a 6 channel motorized potentiometer, some rca jacks, project box, and wiring to make a 6 channel passive volume control box. This will work on the miniDSP or the DCX2496 (non-balanced).
> 
> I also picked up a bluetooth modem for the arduino that I'm using to interface the OEM controls. This will allow me to wirelessly connect the radio controls that are now an emulated keyboard into whatever bluetooth ready tablet I have in the car. The arduino will also be controlling the motorized potentiometer. That way when I adjust the volume using the radio control knob it adjusts the volume in the trunk.
> 
> Lots of planning really. No time to really do anything till after 6/8.
> 
> I did get a chance to swap out one of my temp amps that was having issues with it's new replacement. Small steps I guess.


Hmmmm....Thinking that passive volume pot might wreak havoc with your ESSQUE....So you should go ahead and install two or three of them, laughs. The way this Zapco Dspz8 install is going I will be lucky to not have blown tweeters come contest time.


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Hmmmm....Thinking that passive volume pot might wreak havoc with your ESSQUE....So you should go ahead and install two or three of them, laughs. The way this Zapco Dspz8 install is going I will be lucky to not have blown tweeters come contest time.


Haha. Actually with the SQ crowd it's the way to go. The dcx when using the oem crude vol adjustment actually takes a bit of information away every 6db of adjustment. This way there is no loss. Also there is no worries about built in volume influenced eq curves on the source unit. 

Only other way to do it and still be sq is to run a resistor relay network. I was going to go that route but the parts were like 4x's the cost of this. 


Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Maybe you should put some bass blockers in line with your tweeters. Just in case. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

What MECA class would you be competing in with the new sub build? Modex? I have been wanting to do an IB setup and in my car the spare tire well is the only option being it's a hatchback. Plus it would save some good spacebeing able to sit it in the tire well.

Thanks!


----------



## BowDown

I am in modex in meca. I double checked at the last show to make sure the huge hole in the spare didn't move me and it was a ok. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> I am in modex in meca. I double checked at the last show to make sure the huge hole in the spare didn't move me and it was a ok.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Thanks!


----------



## ecbmxer

captainobvious said:


> What MECA class would you be competing in with the new sub build? Modex? I have been wanting to do an IB setup and in my car the spare tire well is the only option being it's a hatchback. Plus it would save some good spacebeing able to sit it in the tire well.
> 
> Thanks!


Yea, us hatchback guys are almost out of luck unless we want to cut metal. I did have an idea to use those little air vents that are typically in the hatch corners so you don't blow out your eardrums when you shut the doors as passages for IB. But then I guess you'd have to add in a new vent system. I don't remember what the rule for required area to fire IB through is...


----------



## BowDown

2/3rds the cone area. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Hoye0017

So besides you already having one, what is driving you towards the nook vs other tablets? Not questioning in a doubting/negative manner, just curious.

As for the 5v supply, you could probably get away with just an lm7805 regulator. Is that what you were thinking?


----------



## FairLacyZ

I want to know why he chose a nook too over a nexus or something.


----------



## BowDown

My reasoning behind the Nook is:

-Screen's are great. The HD (7") is 720p, and the HD+ (9") is 1080p. 
-Fast processor
-SDCard Slot
-Android 4.1 Under the hood
-Easily rooted
-Google Play is now standard on it
-HDMI Adapter is fairly low profile and $39. 
-HD was $139, and HD+ was $169 @ target recently when BN had a huge Mother's Day sale recently.

Great bang for the buck. Granted you can do with something else what I'm doing with the Nook.. but the screen on the Nexus and Tabs aren't quite what the Nook is. If I could of used an HD+ in my car I would of. The screen is awesome! But the HD will work just fine in the car.

Main drawback I'm running into is connecting to a WiFi hard drive via SMB. I want to mount the share.. but it's fighting me. I'll figure it out soon enough.


----------



## BowDown

As far as a power supply I bought a 5v 10A DC Converter on eBay. I will be powering some other 5v items with it as well. Going to just created a USB A jack off the power supply. Nook requires 2A to charge.


----------



## Hoye0017

BowDown said:


> As far as a power supply I bought a 5v 10A DC Converter on eBay. I will be powering some other 5v items with it as well. Going to just created a USB A jack off the power supply. Nook requires 2A to charge.


Ah. Good call. I wasn't thinking about powering the nook too, only the hdmi audio device. I suppose that 10 amp capacity will help you future-proof.


----------



## BowDown

Hoye0017 said:


> Ah. Good call. I wasn't thinking about powering the nook too, only the hdmi audio device. I suppose that 10 amp capacity will help you future-proof.


True. I have a few things on 5v...

Nook
HDMI Extractor
Arduino Power Source for motorized potentiometer
Cell Charging port
Bluetooth Hands Free Device


----------



## BowDown

Sweet my Alps potentiometer arrived from Germany.  moving on up. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

BowDown said:


> My reasoning behind the Nook is:
> 
> -Screen's are great. The HD (7") is 720p, and the HD+ (9") is 1080p.
> -Fast processor
> -SDCard Slot
> -Android 4.1 Under the hood
> -Easily rooted
> -Google Play is now standard on it
> -HDMI Adapter is fairly low profile and $39.
> -HD was $139, and HD+ was $169 @ target recently when BN had a huge Mother's Day sale recently.
> 
> Great bang for the buck. Granted you can do with something else what I'm doing with the Nook.. but the screen on the Nexus and Tabs aren't quite what the Nook is. If I could of used an HD+ in my car I would of. The screen is awesome! But the HD will work just fine in the car.
> 
> Main drawback I'm running into is connecting to a WiFi hard drive via SMB. I want to mount the share.. but it's fighting me. I'll figure it out soon enough.


Any USB host support? I assume if it's got a USB mini or micro port, you can have host support via USB-on-the-go?


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> Any USB host support? I assume if it's got a USB mini or micro port, you can have host support via USB-on-the-go?


I wish! The tablet itself supposedly has support for it... but there is no 30-pin OTG cable, and B&N hasn't released the pinout for someone to make one. 

I ordered the OTG cable for the S3 phone and I'm going to give this MF DAC a try on that before shipping this out to you. Figure I can compare side by side with the nook over hdmi to extractor.


----------



## Neil_J

USB OTG is 5-pin. Any USB mini or Micro connector can, in theory, if the chip supports it, reconfigure back and forth between being a device or a host. So I would assume your usb charging port could possibly let you hook up a hard drive or USB hub, for example.


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> USB OTG is 5-pin. Any USB mini or Micro connector can, in theory, if the chip supports it, reconfigure back and forth between being a device or a host. So I would assume your usb charging port could possibly let you hook up a hard drive or USB hub, for example.


This is true. But the port on the HD nooks is a 30-pin proprietary connector. The previous generations had a miniUSB. 

So it's been assumed by the Nook HD developer crowd that the unit itself supports OTG, but no one knows the connector pinout to make it work. The charging cable is 4-pin once it gets to the charger.


----------



## Neil_J

Ahh, got it.


----------



## bbfoto

Neil_J said:


> USB OTG is 5-pin. Any USB mini or Micro connector can, in theory, if the chip supports it, reconfigure back and forth between being a device or a host. So I would assume your usb charging port could possibly let you hook up a hard drive or USB hub, for example.


The microUSB/MHL port on the Samsung Galaxy S3 , S4, Note II, and Note 8.0 are now 11-pin, not 5-pin as on the older Galaxy S2 and original Galaxy Note 5.3". Samsung makes a 5-pin to 11-pin microUSB/MHL adapter for backwards-compatibility, or there is a newer 11-pin OTG adapter and 11-pin microUSB/MHL-to-HDMI adapter.

Support for USB Host/MHL/OTG is in the Android Kernel, and AFAIK, the newer Nooks do not have the proper Kernel with this support, unless somebody has recently created a custom Kernel and ROM for Rooted Nook HD and/or HD+ devices. Even then, they are gimped by using the 30-pin connector.

In general, you want to avoid any device that has a proprietary connector, as USB Host, MHL, and OTG are all standardized for use with regular USB or microUSB ports. However, if a device has a separate mini- or regular HDMI port, you can use an HDMI-to-SPDIF Digital converter.


----------



## BowDown

bbfoto said:


> Support for USB Host/MHL/OTG is in the Android Kernel, and AFAIK, the newer Nooks do not have the proper Kernel with this support, unless somebody has recently created a custom Kernel and ROM for Rooted Nook HD and/or HD+.


Indeed they have. CM10.1 is ported over. Gives you android 4.2.2. 

I hope you are incorrect on the otg adapter. I just ordered one on amazon. Claimed compatibility but I believe it was 5pin. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

[QUOTE However, if a device has a separate mini- or regular HDMI port, you can use an HDMI-to-SPDIF Digital converter.[/QUOTE]

This is how I am testing this nook. Unfortunately CM10.1 does not support hdmi. So I am using a rooted version of the stock. 

Hdmi to digital leaves a bit to be desired. 





Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Main drawback I'm running into is connecting to a WiFi hard drive via SMB. I want to mount the share.. but it's fighting me. I'll figure it out soon enough.


Try the "Paragon exFAT, NTFS, HFS+" app in the Google Play Store.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paragon.mounter


----------



## BowDown

bbfoto said:


> Try the "Paragon exFAT, NTFS, HFS+" app in the Google Play Store.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paragon.mounter


Main issue with the stock os is its missing cifs.ko library. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Hdmi to digital leaves a bit to be desired.


Agreed.

Google search for "DanBa Galaxy S III USB DAC". Dan keeps an up to date list of USB DACs that are proven to be working with specific Android devices, but mostly for the Galaxy S III. I'm pretty sure at least one of the MF DACs works. This might lead you to a link about the Nook HD/HD+.

Samsung devices seem to be the most widely-supported in this regard. I've only done this succesfuly with the original Nook Color. I can't really speak for the newer Nooks as I wanted to update my hardware, but with a tablet that had true GPS and Google Maps/NAV.


----------



## BowDown

Ya. I'm thinking of returning this Nook and getting a Tab 2 or Nexus 7.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Main issue with the stock os is its missing cifs.ko library.
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


So it's not possible to sideload/install it if I email you the .apk?

I'm not too knowledgeable in this regard.


----------



## BowDown

Maybe but not by me. 

Touch the system library and it restores the os to day 1 on next reboot.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Ya. I'm thinking of returning this Nook and getting a Tab 2 or Nexus 7.


Yeah, it's too bad, because the Nook HD/HD+ are really great hardware for the money. I checked them both out as well, and the displays really are the bomb-diggidy.


----------



## BowDown

Hell ya. If the new rom did hdmi I could live with it.


----------



## takeabao

If you're doing Android, you must get a Nexus device.


----------



## BowDown

bbfoto said:


> Samsung makes a 5-pin to 11-pin microUSB/MHL adapter for backwards-compatibility, or there is a newer 11-pin OTG adapter and 11-pin microUSB/MHL-to-HDMI adapter.



Thanks for the tip! I canceled my order because you are correct.. I need the 11-pin!


----------



## BowDown

takeabao said:


> If you're doing Android, you must get a Nexus device.


Main thing holding me back is no microSD slot!


----------



## BowDown

Nexus 7 ordered today. Also got the powered OTG cable. Figure this will also help with my SQ Competition rules of being able to plug in a thumbdrive. I plan to run the tablet into a powered USB hub, then off the hub have my DAC, external HD, and an extra USB port for thumbdrive access.


----------



## Neil_J

Do you have a spare USB port for the USB coffee maker?


----------



## BowDown

Ha I just emailed you this update before posting it. 

Actually I have 3 of 7 allocated... Hmm... What I am wondering is if I can get a USB FM radio to function under android?

Thinking of selling off the Gauntlet Wifi hard drive. Really will not need the unit, and given it has a lithium ion battery in it, that would make for a fun time powering it off and on in the car environment.


----------



## Neil_J

Sell it or use it at home


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> Sell it or use it at home


Selling it sounds like a better option at this point. Already have a NAS for the house.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Ha I just emailed you this update before posting it.
> 
> Actually I have 3 of 7 allocated... Hmm... What I am wondering is if I can get a USB FM radio to function under android?


Don't know, that would be cool. But one other reason I decided to start my project/install using the Int'l versions of the Galaxy Note 1 & 2 is that they both have built-in FM Tuner chips and native tuner apps. Unfortunately, the Note 8.0 doesn't have this, though there are strong rumors that the hardware is actually there, but the firmware/radio stack isn't included in this build. I need to look back into that.

And Neil, you of all people should know that the last two USB ports are ALWAYS reserved for the espresso machine and the direct satellite uplink to NORAD.


----------



## Neil_J

Lol can't comment on the last part. But my DIY radio frontend does support AM, RDBS, shortwave, and longwave, in addition to FM. Can't wait to try and tune in stations from far off places. A whip antenna on my Mini would be pretty badass, no?


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> Lol can't comment on the last part. But my DIY radio frontend does support AM, RDBS, shortwave, and longwave, in addition to FM. Can't wait to try and tune in stations from far off places. A whip antenna on my Mini would be pretty badass, no?


Something like that.


----------



## crabbdaddy

so i am going down a similar route for a system in my 69 mustang.. i ordered the minidsp USBStreamer and the JarekC USB>optical based on TAS1020B -- i have a Nexus 7 32G and plan on sending the optical out to a Alpine H701 setup with RUX etc.. i hope to test some this weekend, but a quick connection to the Nexus7 with a OTG cable and the MiniDSP USB Streamer and it powers up but i have not found a way to "route" the audio out to the usbstreamer, when playing audio it still plays from the built in speakers... i installed the jetaudio app but thats been in the last few min..


----------



## Neil_J

Nice to know theres someone else out there with a MiniDSP USBstreamer. As far as I know, it's not supported by Linux (that includes Android) without some serious software hacking. Good luck and let me know if you do get it to work.

Also, the TAS1020B device is USB Audio 1.1 compatible, whereas the USBstreamer is USB Audio 2.0 compatible, meaning the latter will have better jitter and skipping/dropout specs.


----------



## crabbdaddy

Neil_J said:


> Nice to know theres someone else out there with a MiniDSP USBstreamer. As far as I know, it's not supported by Linux (that includes Android) without some serious software hacking. Good luck and let me know if you do get it to work.
> 
> Also, the TAS1020B device is USB Audio 1.1 compatible, whereas the USBstreamer is USB Audio 2.0 compatible, meaning the latter will have better jitter and skipping/dropout specs.


yeah i have some recent geek grads that may be interested in making one for the android world.. we will see how it goes.. 
on another note.. so what do you use in place of FLAC files on the mac side? what file type and app are you using for SQ in the mac world?


----------



## BowDown

Nexus 7 has arrived. In a short time there after it's been rooted, and a new kernel installed. USB OTG is active for keyboard, mouse, and removable media. Now to test the USB DAC with it!


----------



## BowDown

Everything appears to be working. Going to try it out during lunch today.  .











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

Where do I insert my CD?


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Where do I insert my CD?


In ur pooper.


----------



## crabbdaddy

BowDown said:


> Nexus 7 has arrived. In a short time there after it's been rooted, and a new kernel installed. USB OTG is active for keyboard, mouse, and removable media. Now to test the USB DAC with it!


gotta share the kernel man...  hopefully the test goes good!!


----------



## BowDown

crabbdaddy said:


> gotta share the kernel man...  hopefully the test goes good!!


Nexus 7 Kernel Download Page
Android 4.2.x kernel for fixed installation

timur-usbhost-2013-01-29-jb42-fi.zip


That's the one I used. I liked the idea of the fixed install better because on loss of AC power it puts the unit into a deep sleep automatically. 

5min till test install time!


----------



## BowDown

Nexus finds the sound card, disables built in speakers, but no sound out of DAC. 

Even tried a usb audio app. Finds it but no sound. Also no sync light on the DAC. Boo. Looks like I'm going to need another dac. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Next up I'm going to try USB ROM. Supposedly is the cats ass for USB Host work and USB Audio. Would be nice if it enabled the DAC, but either way I think it'll be a good step forward.


----------



## BowDown

Music fidelity v link not compatible with Android


Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## crabbdaddy

BowDown said:


> Music fidelity v link not compatible with Android
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


that sux.. was kinda wanting to use the v-link as a backup plan if the lower cost solutions didn't pan out...


----------



## BowDown

Ya me too. On to shopping for a new... 


Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

Don't know if this thread will help you or not?

Use a standard USB DAC with a Nexus 7 (step by step guide)

Good luck, man! Sooooooo close!


----------



## bbfoto

crabbdaddy said:


> on another note.. so what do you use in place of FLAC files on the mac side? what file type and app are you using for SQ in the mac world?


Usually Apple Lossless (.m4a)

If you're interested in USB DACs that work with the SGSIII check out post #1716 here:

Android phones and USB DACs


----------



## BowDown

Behringer UCA222 ordered. Will be a quick and dirty (hopefully not lol) DAC solution. Android is limited to 48khz anyway... no need to get crazy on the DAC.


----------



## crabbdaddy

BowDown said:


> Behringer UCA222 ordered. Will be a quick and dirty (hopefully not lol) DAC solution. Android is limited to 48khz anyway... no need to get crazy on the DAC.



i thought they had kernel(s) out that allowed 96khz out .. here is an example. im learning as i go so please excuse my ignorance 

worse case i can fall back on a carpc windows or linux based OS, but i was trying to simplify (i think) the main source for audio. sorry i guess i need to create my own thread, but you seemed to have a similar goal.


----------



## BowDown

I don't believe it's a kernel mod thing... But who knows. Neat the HTC claims to have it. Maybe it will work it's way down to other android distros.


----------



## crabbdaddy

ok ... based on the Android link to USB DAC compatibility ... i downloaded USB Audio Recorder PRO and installed on my NEXUS7 32gb, connected generic OTG cable from amazon, connected to miniDSP USBStreamer, connected optical out to Alpine PXA-H701 with test bench power, RUX-C701 and MRV-F545 with some generic speakers...

success!! plays FLAC audio file at 44100 24-bit without any problems!!!

i have not ben able to get the JarekC usb>optical device to work under windows or android device, ill keep testing... the miniDSP USBStreamer works under both windows 7 (driver installed) and Android 4.2.2 (no driver installed, but only works with Audio Recorder PRO player)


----------



## BowDown

Ya, I didn't bother trying the audio recorder pro because I want all android generated audio to pass through the DAC. Otherwise I would be SOL for pandora, AM/FM Tuners and such...


----------



## BowDown

Got the Arduino working with Nexus 7 via USB Keyboard emulation and External Keyboard Helper App. This allows me to remap the USB keys (Arduino interfaced OEM buttons/knobs) into something Android can use. Also allows me to create application shortcuts and assign them to buttons. Well worth the $2.45! 

USB DAC should be here Saturday. 

Next week I will also work with my steering wheel controls to patch them into the Arduino so I can resell my joyCon EX adapter.


----------



## bbfoto

Nice. Making good progress.  If you have the JoyCon EXR and are looking to sell it, send it my way. I need another one.


----------



## BowDown

bbfoto said:


> Nice. Making good progress.  If you have the JoyCon EXR and are looking to sell it, send it my way. I need another one.


Same car or different?  ya I believe it's the exr. Can confirm next week. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

Different car. Cool. LMK. Thanks.


----------



## BowDown

Behringer UCA222 and memory card reader arrived this weekend. Tested the DAC on the bench and it works great!

Only downside is there is no coax spdif out, just optical. Works great for the miniDSP, but will put a kink in my DCX2496 plans.


----------



## BowDown

Behringer UCA222 and memory card reader arrived this weekend. Tested the DAC on the bench and it works great!

Only downside is there is no coax spdif out, just optical. Works great for the miniDSP, but will put a kink in my DCX2496 plans.


----------



## crabbdaddy

BowDown said:


> Behringer UCA222 and memory card reader arrived this weekend. Tested the DAC on the bench and it works great!
> 
> Only downside is there is no coax spdif out, just optical. Works great for the miniDSP, but will put a kink in my DCX2496 plans.


awesome!!! looks like a good unit for USB>optical.. looking forward to your review on the sound..!


----------



## req

wow justin - this is why i dont want to go down this road.

a win8 tablet would be a million times easier :'(


----------



## Neil_J

BowDown said:


> Behringer UCA222 and memory card reader arrived this weekend. Tested the DAC on the bench and it works great!
> 
> Only downside is there is no coax spdif out, just optical. Works great for the miniDSP, but will put a kink in my DCX2496 plans.


Just pipe the optical into a FiiO D3 DAC and then into your Behringer, they're like 30 bucks on Amazon.


----------



## Neil_J

req said:


> wow justin - this is why i dont want to go down this road.
> 
> a win8 tablet would be a million times easier :'(


Yea, but you'd be running Windows 8 :'(


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> Yea, but you'd be running Windows 8 :'(


Very true.

I believe I have overcome all the issues with Android in the car so far. 

The USB Host version of CM10.1 really is the cats ass. It handles the power management well and also enables host mode. I can now tie in pretty much everything I want. 

I believe cables to go has a well rated optical to coax converter. It's about $17 on amazon.

I would rather not convert to analog to feed the DCX2496. Figure the DCX2496 would then convert back to digital to convert to analog again. Less conversion the better.


----------



## BowDown

BTW: The UCA222 does have RCA analog outputs, along with 3.5mm. Issue is the only digital output is optical spdif.


----------



## BowDown

Initial listening impressions... Hell Ya.  





Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

Awesome. Glad you're up and running.  The UCA222 seems to be working for a lot of people across a lot of devices. And it's inexpensive, too. Maybe it's not a Buffalo DAC III or Benchmark DAC 1, but it gets the job done for most. Enjoy.

Maybe Neil could show you how/where to grab the S/PDIF signal off of the board before the optical transmitter?


----------



## BowDown

Well today I worked for awhile. Removed the dash sub. Removed old wiring. Created a mounting board for tablet. Wired the tablet into the car with radio bezel controls. Working well! Also put the center dash console with vents back in. Just need to create a trim piece for the tablet, get steering wheel controls in... And tune. 

Tuning to start after my daughter is down tonight.
































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

Sweetness.


Good to have it recessed too as it will cut down on screen glare.


----------



## BowDown

Thanks. Not quite what I like had planned to do in my head but I think it came out better. This will work for this show. Lots of work to go though. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

^Looks like sex...hope it sounds it, too!




BowDown said:


>


 
Funny place for a cup holder.


----------



## BowDown

bbfoto said:


> ^Looks like sex...hope it sounds it, too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny place for a cup holder.


It does .

Big Gulp FTW!


----------



## quickaudi07

Dont get me wrong. I like the idea of android tablet. I just did a install in my car of Windows 8 tablet. I will tell u why i went this route. I could do anything i want with it. From stupid face book to youtube. To hd radio.. on top of that tune my car on the fly. Less hassle of playing with wires connections. Im not fully done with the install waiting on silent power supply to feed from usb to universal docking station to optical sound output. Also the tablet is 11.6" big as hell. But well worth it...... i like ur install looks nice and clean! 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## JayinMI

Out of curiosity, what are you doing about bluetooth phone stuff? Did your car come stock with handsfree? I seem to rememeber it having SYNC.

Mine does, and keeping it and my satellite radio (yes, I know there's an app, but I don't want to have to use my data plan for EVERYTHING) is kind of holding me back from doing this right now. 

I *could* add a Parrot to my BitOne and keep handsfree, but that would be more work for me. lol

Jay


----------



## DaleCarter

BowDown said:


> Let the fun begin.
> 
> New plans:
> -Remove neo3 tweeters
> -Remove Dash Sub
> -Remove DVA-7996 HU
> -Re-aim neo8's in Pillars
> -Recover Pillars
> -Modify stock Fusion Radio bezel to accept double-din screen @ cannibalize stock HU controls to utilize stock vol control for miniDSP & buttons for mac mini by patching into joycon steering wheel control boards extra channels.
> -Sell off Aura 675H 6-Channel amp and replace with another 2150 2-channel so all (3) 2150's can live in fold down rack. Or possibly just bridge up the 675H and eliminate one of the 2150's.
> -Create fiberglass sub enclosure for boston g215 sub in either spare tire well, or driverside wall of trunk so amp rack can again be accessible.


This is why I always chuckle when I see one of you guys post that you are "done" with the install. I

I think you said that about 20 pages into this thread, before the carputer, tube amp, trunk sub, and anything I haven't read yet in the next 2,000 pages of this thread 

Seriously, what an awesome read. This should almost be a "sticky" and a requirement for being able to post on DIYMA. It's THAT good.


----------



## BowDown

DaleCarter said:


> This is why I always chuckle when I see one of you guys post that you are "done" with the install. I
> 
> I think you said that about 20 pages into this thread, before the carputer, tube amp, trunk sub, and anything I haven't read yet in the next 2,000 pages of this thread
> 
> Seriously, what an awesome read. This should almost be a "sticky" and a requirement for being able to post on DIYMA. It's THAT good.


:laugh: Thanks man! Much appreciated. The build has kind of taken on a life of it's own. Ocassionally I will look back and be like "wonder what it would sound like if I had the ears I do today".


As far as updates they should resume coming in as I now have my lunch hours back, and more time outside of work.

I received my RTL8232U USB Stick from china. This along with SDR Touch allows me to tune in FM Radio on my tablet. Pretty trick setup! Now I just need to connect it to a powered antenna for better reception when driving.

I will be working on amp relocation to the new amp rack.. and the screen trim bezel.

I worked out some software glitches with the OEM controls. They now work great! I'm going to program in some long press functionality for easier fast-forward and such. Still need to make some changes to the userinit.sh file so it remounts my SDCard media correctly after waking from deep sleep. Internet radio is also good to go. GrooveShark is pretty cool.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## req

nice dude. are you going to fill in those sides with like a horizontal 'duct' type thing and keep the screen that far recessed? is it at all irratating to reach?


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> nice dude. are you going to fill in those sides with like a horizontal 'duct' type thing and keep the screen that far recessed? is it at all irratating to reach?


Most definitely. I just wanted to make sure the placement was where I wanted it. I will take some 1/8" ABS and make a plenum kind of adapter to smooth the bezel into the screen. 

When I installed this I just ran short on time before the show. I will be revisiting the bezel this week.

Overall I find the screen pretty easy to reach. With my short arms and seat pushed back a bit more than normal it's a little lean to touch the screen. But I really only need to touch the screen to change radio stations, or change apps (at the moment, I plan to script the app launch and assign a button for it). 

The OEM controls take most of the touch requirement away. I actually find it a further reach to use the tune knob to change tracks.


----------



## BowDown

Cleaned up the opening. Now to start mockup of the trim assembly.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

New grill cloth from the UK arrived today.  I believe with some creative base color change in the pillars it should work well. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## ecbmxer

Is that white or a kind of grey or a kind of beige? Hard to tell, haha


----------



## BowDown

Supposedly Ivory... But it does take on whatever color it's near. Going to have to figure out what color to paint the pillars to get the final product to go with the odd colored headliner. I'm almost thinking the pillars will need an Army green color as a base.


----------



## Changchung

BowDown said:


> Lame Video as promised!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> I didn't show every button, but it's tough to film a videoclip with the mini @ work.


This is awesome...


----------



## captainobvious

I checked back a few pages but didn't see any updates on the neo8S. Are they already installed? Can you give your impressions of the differences you've noticed? I have a pair of neo10's I was going to install (in the kicks) but since there isn't enough room there (or in the pillars) for them, I may switch out to the neo8S.


Thanks!


.


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> I checked back a few pages but didn't see any updates on the neo8S. Are they already installed? Can you give your impressions of the differences you've noticed? I have a pair of neo10's I was going to install (in the kicks) but since there isn't enough room there (or in the pillars) for them, I may switch out to the neo8S.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> .



Hey, sorry for the delay.

The neo8-s's are awesome.  Much improved over the neo8-PDR. I am currently running the neo8-s's @ 360hz w/36db slope. The midbasses are also crossed at 360hz but are running an 18db slope to help out a bit. The neo8-s's do rolloff a bit sooner... about 12k instead of 16k on the PDR's. I was able to EQ them a bit to give me the response curve I wanted up to 15-16k... but it's about all they are good for at comp levels. 

Really when going to the neo8-s's a dedicated small format tweeter would help out alot allowing you to keep some meat in the midrange frequencies. But overall it makes a pretty stout 2way setup! 

I have been to a MECA 3x/IASCA 1x comp and neither format commented on lack of brightness so I must have taken care of the rolloff pretty well. . 

Overall a vast improvement over the neo8-PDR's, and a definite improvement in staging in my car by having so much information up top.


----------



## BowDown

Changchung said:


> This is awesome...


Thanks man. I will post up a new video using the Nexus 7 tablet & OEM Controls. I was waiting to get the steering wheel controls patched in.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Hey, sorry for the delay.
> 
> The neo8-s's are awesome.  Much improved over the neo8-PDR. I am currently running the neo8-s's @ 360hz w/36db slope. The midbasses are also crossed at 360hz but are running an 18db slope to help out a bit. The neo8-s's do rolloff a bit sooner... about 12k instead of 16k on the PDR's. I was able to EQ them a bit to give me the response curve I wanted up to 15-16k... but it's about all they are good for at comp levels.
> 
> Really when going to the neo8-s's a dedicated small format tweeter would help out alot allowing you to keep some meat in the midrange frequencies. But overall it makes a pretty stout 2way setup!
> 
> I have been to a MECA 3x/IASCA 1x comp and neither format commented on lack of brightness so I must have taken care of the rolloff pretty well. .
> 
> Overall a vast improvement over the neo8-PDR's, and a definite improvement in staging in my car by having so much information up top.


Thank you !

I already have a pair of the neo3's so they would mate up very nicely with these based on your comments about the rolloff. Are thes eonly available at Meniscus? I know PE sells B&G but I didn't see them on their site. Guess I'll have to inquire about that...


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Thank you !
> 
> Are these only available at Meniscus?


True.

Great guy to deal with too!


----------



## BowDown

Filter pictures after 3 months of rain. Barely any dirt on the bottom and none on the top. This was a non oiled filter. 

I installed a new one (cut to the correct size this time). This one is also treated with oil.
































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Changchung

BowDown said:


> Thanks man. I will post up a new video using the Nexus 7 tablet & OEM Controls. I was waiting to get the steering wheel controls patched in.


Great, I will waiting for it


----------



## captainobvious

Looks like water is a non issue for your filter there. Well done!


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Looks like water is a non issue for your filter there. Well done!


Thanks man! I'm very happy with the design. The 18" sub is performing great as well. Hopefully there will be some cosmetic updates in the near future.


----------



## BowDown

Hardwood owned me. I pulled out the oak top I was working on only to find it curled like a blue hair lady. 

I tried to save it but it now lives in the dumpster. 

Time to figure out a new game plan. 


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

Try using solid Bamboo flooring. You can get edge grain or flat grain depending on which look you prefer and can stain it if you'd like. Bamboo is a type of grass, not wood, so it does not expand and contract due to heat and moisture variances like wood. For this reason I've used it in my house that incorporates radiant heat slab floors...no buckling or warping. The edge grain is much harder and less prone to scratches, gouging, and dimples, but I prefer the look of flat grain.

...Just an option.

Also, it helps if you seal BOTH sides of any wood surface. If you just seal one side, or don't seal it at all (e.g. with varathane, shellac, etc.) it will be more prone to warping and curling. I think you also had a problem because you laminated the oak (which will expand/contract quite a bit), to the plywood substrate, which is more stable and will not expand/contract nearly as much. If you had not laminated the oak to the plywood the piece probably would not have curled, but it still would have expanded laterally.


----------



## BowDown

bbfoto said:


> Try using solid Bamboo flooring. You can get edge grain or flat grain depending on which look you prefer and can stain it if you'd like. Bamboo is a type of grass, not wood, so it does not expand and contract due to heat and moisture variances like wood. For this reason I've used it in my house that incorporates radiant heat slab floors...no buckling or warping.
> 
> Just an option...


Ya that's a good idea.

I'm thinking of ditching the whole wood thing at the moment. 

Current idea is to reuse the carpeted pieces I made to go around the spare tire back when I had the sparetire sub... and then make a circle cover for daily driving. The amps will not be exposed, but it would make the trunk install a clean stealth look.


----------



## bbfoto

BowDown said:


> Ya that's a good idea.
> 
> I'm thinking of ditching the whole wood thing at the moment.
> 
> Current idea is to reuse the carpeted pieces I made to go around the spare tire back when I had the sparetire sub... and then make a circle cover for daily driving. The amps will not be exposed, but it would make the trunk install a clean stealth look.


Sounds good. You can always revisit it later if you decide you want more flash. That should make it easier to finish up your install in the meantime. My preferred M.O. is usually the clean and stealthy look, but I can understand wanting something different and visually appealing.


----------



## BowDown

Fits pretty well. Just need to check the left radius. Either the floor piece is off or the box is out of round. Either way easy fix.  



















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## bbfoto

Mmmmmm...BASS. Looks good!


----------



## req

bummer that floor curled!

also, look for NEVERWET at home depot. i am not sure how well it breathes, but it is a super hydrophobic coating that this company made and teamed up with rustolium or some spray paint company that they now carry at home depot. its like $20 for a set. spray the base, let it dry, spray the top coat, let it dry. will not get wet or dirty. 

checking the "breatheablity" is something you should check on before you actually use it - but its worth checking into. i bought a set the other day, but i have not tried it yet.

http://www.neverwet.com/


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> bummer that floor curled!
> 
> also, look for NEVERWET at home depot. i am not sure how well it breathes, but it is a super hydrophobic coating that this company made and teamed up with rustolium or some spray paint company that they now carry at home depot. its like $20 for a set. spray the base, let it dry, spray the top coat, let it dry. will not get wet or dirty.
> 
> checking the "breatheablity" is something you should check on before you actually use it - but its worth checking into. i bought a set the other day, but i have not tried it yet.
> 
> Superhydrophobic Coatings | Corrosion Control & Waterproof Coatings | NeverWet


I'm confused on why I would need that coating? Nothing is coming to mind. :laugh:

Ya, at least it curled in the shop (now that it's a humid summer and they are opening doors to the shop). If it curled like that in the car I would be pissed.


----------



## goodstuff

Also sold as "Ultra Ever Dry". Space age ish...


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Also sold as "Ultra Ever Dry". Space age ish...




I have no problems with water.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> I have no problems with water.


I think Req was thinking if the filter /current design failed after awhile...not sure.


----------



## BowDown

With the monsoon that has been upstate this summer I am confident the foam air cleaner will work well. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Not much of an update but still an update. Braved thr 90deg temps to remove the amps from the fold down rack and then removed the rack itself.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

I totally forgot your car was red. lol

Jay


----------



## BowDown

JayinMI said:


> I totally forgot your car was red. lol
> 
> Jay


Lol



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

How are the RS180's doing with the 18" in there now?
I have a set left over from my last car, and I'm trying to decide if I want to run them or get something new. I liked them in the last car, but my substage was only a ported 10" Dayton HO.

Jay


----------



## BowDown

JayinMI said:


> How are the RS180's doing with the 18" in there now?
> I have a set left over from my last car, and I'm trying to decide if I want to run them or get something new. I liked them in the last car, but my substage was only a ported 10" Dayton HO.
> 
> Jay


They are great! Running them at 45hz with a 24db slope. They love it and makes for a great sub to midbass transition. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Got the amps moved down to their new home. Some clean but not final wiring done. I also took this opportunity to run the left off one amp, right off another, and sub off the 3rd. I swear I hear a difference in staging by doing this... Could be in my head though. :laugh:


----------



## req

lol justin. no just another alternative to oil. thats all.

you putting them in the floor now?


----------



## BowDown

Ya the 3 amps will be in the floor. More than likely hidden until removal of the false floor panel. The sub will be able to be showed from removing a protective round cover.. but otherwise will blend into the false floor carpet.


----------



## req

were you tired of your sweet fold down rack? was it too small?

its a shame, because it was very cool.


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> were you tired of your sweet fold down rack? was it too small?
> 
> its a shame, because it was very cool.


The rack wasn't large enough for the 3 amps I now run. I could of reworked it.. but in the end I would still require the floor to be raised for the 13" deep 1808 subwoofer. In the end trunk space won out. I had to buy a smaller stroller for my car because the normal one we carry around wouldn't fit with the raised floor/fold down amp rack.


----------



## req

gotcha.

i would love to have hidden amps under the floor again haha. the only other option is the roof in my car... :uhoh:


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> gotcha.
> 
> i would love to have hidden amps under the floor again haha. the only other option is the roof in my car... :uhoh:


:lol: The wheels are turning.

That's how my idea of cutting a 14" hole in the bottom of my car started. 2yrs later I finally got out the body saw. 

You going to the End of Summer Showdown? Curious to hear your setup, and your impressions of my N7 tablet setup.


----------



## jcwgibson

more incredible work, does this thread contain a table of contents? Keep going strong!


----------



## BowDown

Pillars are out, new drivers perminately installed. Old neo3 spots blocked off. And 1 of 2 pillars wrapped in grill cloth. 

I also swapped the behringer usb dac for another dac that can do 96khz @ 24bit. 


























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

They look great. So neo3's were definitely NOT needed then, right?


----------



## BowDown

Well from about 14-15k and up the neo8-s's are lacking.. I was able to work some EQ magic.. but the extra amp, phasing, time alignment and hassle of having dedicated tweeters is definitely not worth the slight rolloff.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Well from about 14-15k and up the neo8-s's are lacking.. I was able to work some EQ magic.. but the extra amp, phasing, time alignment and hassle of having dedicated tweeters is definitely not worth the slight rolloff.


Ahh, ok gotcha. I'm using the same drivers in my setup (or will be once my install is finished), albeit in the kicks vs your pillar install.


----------



## BowDown

I believe you are looking for an on-axis setup right? If so the rolloff up top may be even less.


----------



## BowDown

2nd pillar wrapped. Gotta get em back in ASAP.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Pillars are back. I figured I would add some foam deadening and see if it helps with the bit boom box like midrange. 
































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## sydmonster

wow... those a pillars work really well! In the photos they seem totally unobstrusive!

Could you post a photo from a distance, like on the back seat so we can see both pillars at the same time.
Good to see this ever evolving build still going strong.


----------



## BowDown

sydmonster said:


> wow... those a pillars work really well! In the photos they seem totally unobstrusive!
> 
> Could you post a photo from a distance, like on the back seat so we can see both pillars at the same time.
> Good to see this ever evolving build still going strong.


Sure. I will snap one today at the show. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> I believe you are looking for an on-axis setup right? If so the rolloff up top may be even less.


I'll have to measure them, but they are aimed toward the center of the cabin, so a little off axis- 15-30 degrees I'd guess. But since they will be in the kicks as opposed to up top in the pillars, I'll lose output due to increased distance and obstructions  
Plus, looking at their data sheet, they have useable response out to about 10K on axis, but they start beaming around 3K horizontally and about 1.5K vertically so ideally, they should probably be crossed over close to 2K to provide even sound power response.


----------



## rollajake2012

BowDown said:


>


I have been lurking through your thread for a while and read through every page in 2 days, 

this is not really audio related but what brand is you dash cover I have one but it will not lay flat no matter what I do and it is frustrating! 

I've tried velcro all over but it ends up pulling off after a few days, it has been in the car sense december


----------



## BowDown

Mine is a sash designs. Fit well from the start. Just had to relax it a bit on the sun... Came rolled up pretty tight. I only have a small strip of velcro on each of the side vents. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Disregard the dash mat shimmed with a sweatshirt during competition. But this is how the pillars look.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

BowDown said:


> Mine is a sash designs. Fit well from the start. Just had to relax it a bit on the sun... Came rolled up pretty tight. I only have a small strip of velcro on each of the side vents.


You mean Dash Designs? Because all I found on Sash Designs were links to beauty contest sashes


----------



## BowDown

Neil_J said:


> You mean Dash Designs? Because all I found on Sash Designs were links to beauty contest sashes


Doh. Damn auto correct. Lol. 

Did great in iasca today. 232.5. 1st place and 2nd overall. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Jcharger13

That setup in your trunk is very interesting in a good way. Hopefully I get to hear it sometime. 
Your pillars looked very nice also.

Which car placed first overall today?


----------



## BowDown

Jcharger13 said:


> That setup in your trunk is very interesting in a good way. Hopefully I get to hear it sometime.
> Your pillars looked very nice also.
> 
> Which car placed first overall today?


Julian new avenger. Was 2 different judges, but it sounded sweet. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Jcharger13 said:


> That setup in your trunk is very interesting in a good way. Hopefully I get to hear it sometime.
> Your pillars looked very nice also.
> 
> Which car placed first overall today?


You going to finals in Pottsville? 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Jcharger13

That's in September, correct? If so yes I am planning on going.


----------



## BowDown

Jcharger13 said:


> That's in September, correct? If so yes I am planning on going.


Sweet. Can check it out there. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Jcharger13

BowDown said:


> Sweet. Can check it out there.


Good deal.


----------



## tintbox

I can say your car gets down!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BowDown

tintbox said:


> I can say your car gets down!!!!!!!!!


Thanks man. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to listen to yours. Just got crazy at the end. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Getting sick of thinking of ways to trim out the tablet... Now I start building something to see if it works.


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

2 passes with the stationary belt sander and she is pretty close.  

Will be making a removable trim piece to blend it in. The wood will stay attached with the tablet. 



















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## goodstuff

I'm feeling some wood grain for the trim....


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> I'm feeling some wood grain for the trim....


Haha. I was thinking more a carbon fiber di-noc finish . Nothing else is woodgrain in the interior.


----------



## captainobvious

Yeah, CF or vinyl would look great. Nice shaping there


----------



## BowDown

Be prepared for some updates in the next 7 weeks. I'm going to IASCA Nationals in SQC this year. Gotta get all the cosmetic crap buttoned up before then .


----------



## BowDown

Had to fix a usb hub power issue. Then I created filler pieces for either side of the wood trim piece. Will belt sand the profile into the added pieces and work on the mounting tomorrow. 

Had to order abs plastic online. Amazing no one local has it.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## naiku

BowDown said:


> Getting sick of thinking of ways to trim out the tablet.


Glad to see I am not the only one getting a headache from this piece!! It's the biggest part left on my Nexus 7 to finish, just trying to get that last piece to sit flush/look factory is tough. Have you thought about adding a matte screen protector to the Nexus? I have one on mine and it cuts out the screen glare entirely, but it's still perfectly readable day or night. 

Read through about 2/3 of the thread, wow is all I can say. Awesome looking set up! 

Saw you had posted in my thread at rootzwiki as well.  I started trying to work on a custom launcher today, but am having (what I feel like is a dumb issue) that while I have created the wallpaper in photoshop, when I put it on the Nexus, and try to set it as the wallpaper, it's forcing me to crop it.


----------



## BowDown

naiku said:


> Glad to see I am not the only one getting a headache from this piece!! It's the biggest part left on my Nexus 7 to finish, just trying to get that last piece to sit flush/look factory is tough. Have you thought about adding a matte screen protector to the Nexus? I have one on mine and it cuts out the screen glare entirely, but it's still perfectly readable day or night.
> 
> Read through about 2/3 of the thread, wow is all I can say. Awesome looking set up!
> 
> Saw you had posted in my thread at rootzwiki as well.  I started trying to work on a custom launcher today, but am having (what I feel like is a dumb issue) that while I have created the wallpaper in photoshop, when I put it on the Nexus, and try to set it as the wallpaper, it's forcing me to crop it.


Ha doesn't that suck about the wallpaper? Lol. I had to oversize my background with white space. 

Thanks for the props. I'm really happy so far. I have more shaping done on the trim ring... Will post more tomorrow. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

naiku said:


> Have you thought about adding a matte screen protector to the Nexus? I have one on mine and it cuts out the screen glare entirely, but it's still perfectly readable day or night.




Ya I am going to add one before final install. Which one did you go with? 

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## naiku

BowDown said:


> Ha doesn't that suck about the wallpaper? Lol. I had to oversize my background with white space.


What size did you have to make it with white space? At the moment, that's the only thing I can think of to make it work. 



BowDown said:


> Which one did you go with?


I bought these

Been on there for about 6 months now with no issues, I may remove the first one and put the second on soon. Only because there is a single piece of dust under the one currently on there, which causes a small air bubble.


----------



## BowDown

The one you linked doesn't appear to be an anti-glare one. Is this correct? How thick was it? Pain the ass to apply?


----------



## naiku

BowDown said:


> The one you linked doesn't appear to be an anti-glare one. Is this correct? How thick was it? Pain the ass to apply?


Ah, crap. Sorry linked wrong one. This is the correct one.

It's pretty thick, but easy enough to apply. Just take your time to make sure the screen is really clean first before putting it on.


----------



## BowDown

naiku said:


> Ah, crap. Sorry linked wrong one. This is the correct one.
> 
> It's pretty thick, but easy enough to apply. Just take your time to make sure the screen is really clean first before putting it on.


Cool thanks! I've installed quite a few on company phones.. but wasn't sure of the quality of these.


----------



## naiku

If you have installed any on phones, you will have no problem with this one.


----------



## req

naiku said:


> What size did you have to make it with white space? At the moment, that's the only thing I can think of to make it work.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought these
> 
> Been on there for about 6 months now with no issues, I may remove the first one and put the second on soon. Only because there is a single piece of dust under the one currently on there, which causes a small air bubble.


as far as the dust spot goes, you can use a few pieces of tape to fix it.


put a piece of tape on the screen protector near where the dust is.

get a second small piece of tape

lift the screen protector up slowly using the tape you stuck to the screen protector

using the adhesive side, slide the tape sticky side toward the screen protector and smooth side on the LCD glass until it is under the dust.

push down on the screen protector to get the dust to stick to the tape

pull the protector back up, remove tape, slowly put the protector back down until its perfect

remove tape from screen protector 

here is a diy i found with a quick google, but it should be really easy

How To: Remove Dust Bubbles from Screen Protector with Tape | Perfect Fit Technologies | Screen Protection for Apple & Samsung Devices


----------



## naiku

req said:


> here is a diy i found with a quick google, but it should be really easy


I think that is the same link I used on my wife's Kindle and my phone, just not yet gotten around to it on the Nexus. Here is a quick updated shot of it in my dash, spent some more time on the trim and trying to create a custom (RNS-E style) launcher:











Wow is it ever slow going with UCCW trying to position hot spots.


----------



## BowDown

naiku said:


> I think that is the same link I used on my wife's Kindle and my phone, just not yet gotten around to it on the Nexus. Here is a quick updated shot of it in my dash, spent some more time on the trim and trying to create a custom (RNS-E style) launcher:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow is it ever slow going with UCCW trying to position hot spots.


Looks damn clean man. Good job. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## n_olympios

Indeed! We might need more info on that launcher.


----------



## BowDown

Created a one piece amp rack board. Going to install cleats and such Monday then after nuts wrap in carpet.


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

New amp rack false floor underway. Spacer blocks, removable extension wings... Will finish the floor and get the shims done tomorrow. Then carpet it Tuesday.
































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Blocking added. 










Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> New amp rack false floor underway. Spacer blocks, removable extension wings... Will finish the floor and get the shims done tomorrow. Then carpet it Tuesday.


With all of your other build pics coming from your office I didn't even know you had a house. :laugh:

I don't know that I've ever seen OSB 2x4s. What is that stuff typically used for?


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> With all of your other build pics coming from your office I didn't even know you had a house. :laugh:
> 
> I don't know that I've ever seen OSB 2x4s. What is that stuff typically used for?


:lol: True. That's another never ending project.

Actually it's an LVL beam product. It's dimensional like a 2x10. We sometimes use it for bottom cords on Attic Trusses.


----------



## BowDown

Little bit of black paint. Next up carpet. 

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## tintbox

Loving it dude!


----------



## BowDown

tintbox said:


> Loving it dude!


Thanks man. I wish I could get it done before Sunday, but it'll be done for Finals. Got alot of work to get all the ducks in a row. At least my tune is pretty solid.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

BowDown said:


> Lunch updates:
> 
> Put some 1/4" thick double-sided foam tape on the bottom of the planar mounting edge. Stuck em in place and zipped em down with 1/2" long screws. They are looking sweet. 1 last test fit, then I will wrap them in grill cloth and install them in the car.
> 
> Had to paint the rivit heads black on the neo8. Stuck out like a sore thumb through the grill cloth.





























Does this look familiar? 

Martin Logan Mosaic

If anyone curious why they flipped it, here's why:

Your crossover point between two drivers is typically set by the center to center spacing. For instance, if you use a NEO 8 and it's oriented vertically, you would typically put the tweeter at a point where the spacing is constant. With a vertical height of about 20cm, that means a spacing of about 20cm.

That sets your crossover point, and then you would typically set the crossover at one wavelength, 1/2WL or 1/4WL. That gives us the following frequencies:

1700hz (1 WL)
850hz (1/2 WL)
425hz (1/4 WL)

Flipping the NEO8 on it's side tightens up the spacing to about 3", which gives us the following frequencies:

4461hz (1 WL)
2231hz (1/2 WL)
1116hz (1/4 WL)

Martin Logan runs both drivers as a dipole, so that hurts the power handling, due to excursion. So I'm betting that Martin Logan crosses their NEO8 over to the NEO3 at 4461hz.

The downside to this configuration is that it's going to be very directional, due to the width of the NEO8. I have some NEO8s here, and they're not only directional, they're also poorly behaved as you reach the limits of their beamwidth. Conventional drivers don't suffer as much from this, because the cone isn't flat.


----------



## captainobvious

Good point. I guess they wanted to make them respond like typical Martin Logan panels- ie laser beam sweetspot with bad off axis response. The vertical polar response is far worse than the horizontal when arranged in the typical fashion. I guess they chose to go for better vertical response and sacrifice horizontal response in this design, but even still, a crossover point around 4K is much too high if you want good power response. Which is very odd considering they chose to mount the neo3 traditionally capitalizing on its horizontal response and the exact opposite with the neo8...I'm puzzled. :laugh:








Patrick Bateman said:


> Does this look familiar?
> 
> Martin Logan Mosaic
> 
> If anyone curious why they flipped it, here's why:
> 
> Your crossover point between two drivers is typically set by the center to center spacing. For instance, if you use a NEO 8 and it's oriented vertically, you would typically put the tweeter at a point where the spacing is constant. With a vertical height of about 20cm, that means a spacing of about 20cm.
> 
> That sets your crossover point, and then you would typically set the crossover at one wavelength, 1/2WL or 1/4WL. That gives us the following frequencies:
> 
> 1700hz (1 WL)
> 850hz (1/2 WL)
> 425hz (1/4 WL)
> 
> Flipping the NEO8 on it's side tightens up the spacing to about 3", which gives us the following frequencies:
> 
> 4461hz (1 WL)
> 2231hz (1/2 WL)
> 1116hz (1/4 WL)
> 
> Martin Logan runs both drivers as a dipole, so that hurts the power handling, due to excursion. So I'm betting that Martin Logan crosses their NEO8 over to the NEO3 at 4461hz.
> 
> The downside to this configuration is that it's going to be very directional, due to the width of the NEO8. I have some NEO8s here, and they're not only directional, they're also poorly behaved as you reach the limits of their beamwidth. Conventional drivers don't suffer as much from this, because the cone isn't flat.


----------



## captainobvious

BTW- It was great meeting you this weekend. Thanks again for the very long awaited demo of this great install. The system sounds great! The Aura 18 is even more imposing in person, and I can't believe the excellent transient response it has- what a great driver!


----------



## BowDown

Productive lunch hour today. Pulled out the tablet with all usb accessories, amps, minidsp and mounted the minidsp in its official enclosure. Lol. Time to finish this car up cosmetically.

























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## captainobvious

Niiice! Love the rack-mount enclosure for the miniDSP. And of course the Behringer piece which I'm familiar with as well (used it on a home build). You'll have EQ and tuning a-plenty now


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## BowDown

Tru. But alas just 1 will make the cut. Chances are the minidsp for finals. Unless I get some time to swap them and tune before then. Haha. 



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## ndramountanis

Followed through most of the thread, Very impressive work! Good job!


----------



## BowDown

More progress today. Got the amps test fit on the amp rack, along with the processor. So it's now ready for carpet. I also cut and glued/stapled a tray off the back of the tablet mounting plate so I can attach other tablet oriented things like the USB Hub, Soundcard, Arduino, PAC delay, Fuseblock, relay board...


----------



## BowDown

Layed down some carpet on the base piece today.


















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## Neil_J

Lol, how'd you get your build log on the front page of diyma?


----------



## BowDown

Not sure. The picture used is not even of my car. Lol. But it's prbly been up there like a year now. 



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## fast94tracer

You car sounds great. Thanks for the listen. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4


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## BowDown

Thanks man. Despite the tablet giving me fits! Lol. 



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## fast94tracer

Thanks to your car and captainobvious' s car im gonna try neo10's

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4


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## BowDown

Awesome man. Look at the specs on the neo8s's first. They were crossed over at 320hz in my car and did well. The Neo 10's go lower but I'm not sure what kind of enclosure u may need to get that response? I just used foam deadening material behind mine to deaden the harsh sheet metal. Either way start a build log I want to see! Lol. 



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## fast94tracer

I know I would save money with the 8's but we'll see what I'll do

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## BowDown

Soldered up my 4 bank 15a transistor switch.  dead silent and will work great with my usb programmable delay module.











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## BowDown

Gotta fab up the heat sink Monday. 



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## fast94tracer

Looks good now wire my car for me lol 

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## Orion525iT

Great build.

Got a few questions that hopefully you can answer. I am the process of making an IB setup for my wagon. Its no easy task in a wagon. There are various things to consider, various ways to go about it. The easiest, is what you have done here. I rejected this option for a few reasons, but those reasons are operating on theory and not practical experience.

With that said, do you notice any adverse effects while driving the car due to your venting to the outside? Have you noticed increased road noise? Have you noticed any cone movement*due to pressure changes under the car? Are there any worries about CO entering into the cabin (I doubt this would happen with the sub well sealed, but it was a thought)?

Thanks.


----------



## BowDown

Can't say I even notice a difference. The sub is pretty well sealed and I haven't noticed any co2. Sub operates just ad expected when driving at highway speeds. There is Prbly a difference in quality of sound but with road noise I can't tell. I have no idea if the cone moves on its own as I drive. Never had someone in the trunk with a flashlight. Lol. 

Gotta say I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat. 



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----------



## JayinMI

Cool. I've been thinking of taking this approach in my Rio. I can either do a 10" in the side panel in the back, and amps in the spare tire well, or amps on either side of the trunk and a 15" IB in the spare tire well....still trying to decide. I've only got about 350 (old school class A/B) watts for it, and was considering an FI 15IB3.

Still trying to decide, and had the same worries.

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Got the amp rack done and a pre-wired. Now it's back in the car. Have to wired up the power and speakers. 

I'm definitely proud of how this came out and how it mounts to the car. 













































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## Jcharger13

Looking good. 

Quick question for you, how do the judges listen to a test disc/audio file in your car? Do you have the discs saved to your HD or do they have it on a USB drive?


----------



## BowDown

I have them stored on a usb thumb drive. Or they can use their own usb thumb. 



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## BowDown

Most of the tablet module prewiring is done. Need to modify the usb hub for direct power, modify the arduino to accept steering wheel controls, and run a simple system-wide kill switch. 











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----------



## JayinMI

What is the transistor switch board for?

Jay


----------



## BowDown

The TR7 Pro delay controller has 3 outputs that are weak (300ma), and 1 that is 1A. 

So I'm using 3 of the transistor switches to beef up the capability. The 4th will be a backup in case one fails.

Total I will be switching :

3 Amps off the 1A output 

DSP 
USB Hub 
Arduino 

Off the transistors. 


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## BowDown

Will have slightly different delays to help curb thump and sync issues with the tablet. 



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## bbfoto

Nice progress. Looking good.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Looks awesome from my hospital bed


----------



## BowDown

AVIDEDTR said:


> Looks awesome from my hospital bed


Must be the pain killers! :laugh:

Thanks man.


----------



## BowDown

More updates. Close to installing the tablet back into the car. Lol.







































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----------



## BowDown

Going back in tonight. Setup the arduino for steering wheel controls, power supply mounted and ready to use, tablet back on module.... Moving on up. 


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----------



## captainobvious

Lovely attention to detail on the wiring. Tech flex, heat shrink...wrapped up neatly. Well done Justin !


----------



## Neil_J

BowDown said:


> Going back in tonight. Setup the arduino for steering wheel controls, power supply mounted and ready to use, tablet back on module.... Moving on up. .


Did you get the code working for the steering wheel controls? How far off were my ADC value calculations?


----------



## BowDown

No I haven't tried it yet. I have the resistor at home so I didn't get a chance to solder it on yet. I probably won't have any feedback on that until almost Saturday when I'm at the show.



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## BowDown

Very deflating sort of night last night. I finally got the tablet in so I could power everything up. The unit seemed to power up decent with delay, but no sound. After an hour of troubleshooting it looked like a bad barrel connector in the MiniDSP case. Now I have sound... But then my tablet starts forgetting the arduino and the usb stick. About 10 power cycles it comes back.. at this point it was after 11PM and I was fried. ****ing car... So this morning I get in the car, nothing. Absolutely nothing... I believe it blew a fuse on the constant 12v+ overnight. WTF would cause this ****? What a nightmare... I wont know what exactly happened until later today when I can work on it.

Finals is looking grim.


----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Very deflating sort of night last night. I finally got the tablet in so I could power everything up. The unit seemed to power up decent with delay, but no sound. After an hour of troubleshooting it looked like a bad barrel connector in the MiniDSP case. Now I have sound... But then my tablet starts forgetting the arduino and the usb stick. About 10 power cycles it comes back.. at this point it was after 11PM and I was fried. ****ing car... So this morning I get in the car, nothing. Absolutely nothing... I believe it blew a fuse on the constant 12v+ overnight. WTF would cause this ****? What a nightmare... I wont know what exactly happened until later today when I can work on it.
> 
> Finals is looking grim.


Sometimes taking a break is the best thing...I think you will come up with something....


----------



## BowDown

goodstuff said:


> Sometimes taking a break is the best thing...I think you will come up with something....


Keeping my fingers crossed. 



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----------



## BowDown

Source of problem... PAC TR7-PRO delay module. What a piece of ****. Has 4 outputs.. 1 is 1A that i had my 3 amps remote trigger off, the other 3 are 0.3A and I had them powering a transistor switch that doesn't pull 1/4 that... and it's dead now. MOTHER F***


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Source of problem... PAC TR7-PRO delay module. What a piece of ****. Has 4 outputs.. 1 is 1A that i had my 3 amps remote trigger off, the other 3 are 0.3A and I had them powering a transistor switch that doesn't pull 1/4 that... and it's dead now. MOTHER F***


ugggg. well at least you found the culprit.

Will a standard relay work or do you need to use the delay module?


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> ugggg. well at least you found the culprit.
> 
> Will a standard relay work or do you need to use the delay module?


I really need the delay to curb the turnoff pop. Also you get docked for relay clicks. 



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----------



## goodstuff

BowDown said:


> Source of problem... PAC TR7-PRO delay module. What a piece of ****. Has 4 outputs.. 1 is 1A that i had my 3 amps remote trigger off, the other 3 are 0.3A and I had them powering a transistor switch that doesn't pull 1/4 that... and it's dead now. MOTHER F***


So sounds good? Damn man tough break. Thought I was in the same boat this weekend when I couldn't get the Audison to turn on. The stooge that owned it before me jacked up the remote wire terminal. It was stuffed way into the amp and I had previously pulled it out with pliers and made it work. Well it fell back into the amp again and I decided to fix it right. That didn't work out, lol. I ended up using the speak-on connection to turn it on. Good luck.


----------



## BlackHHR

Cure for turn off pop ... place a small non polarized cap and diode ( electrical check valve ) on the remote lead you want to delay turn off . Then you can use a simple relay from auto zone . We had to do this for the EXP2 Symmetry . Problem solved .
Greg



BowDown said:


> I really need the delay to curb the turnoff pop. Also you get docked for relay clicks.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Neil_J

BlackHHR said:


> Cure for turn off pop ... place a small non polarized cap and diode ( electrical check valve ) on the remote lead you want to delay turn off . Then you can use a simple relay from auto zone . We had to do this for the EXP2 Symmetry . Problem solved .
> Greg


Or use an extra digital pin on the arduino wired to a transistor driving a 12V relay.


----------



## BowDown

She's alive and back together. The tablet trim piece and sub enclosure trim piece are not going to make it... But otherwise it works great now. With the snap of the toggle button you can't even hear the faint click of the relay. Lol. 



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----------



## BowDown

BlackHHR said:


> Cure for turn off pop ... place a small non polarized cap and diode ( electrical check valve ) on the remote lead you want to delay turn off . Then you can use a simple relay from auto zone . We had to do this for the EXP2 Symmetry . Problem solved .
> Greg


Thanks for the tip. Problem is the amps are the only thing that have a remote trigger. My processor, tablet, hub, arduino are connected to a switched source of power. 



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## JayinMI

Neil_J said:


> Or use an extra digital pin on the arduino wired to a transistor driving a 12V relay.


Exactly what I was thinking.

Jay


----------



## BowDown

JayinMI said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.
> 
> Jay


Lol I bet. I do have my transistor switch available now. 



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## Neil_J

Const byte outputPin = 7; //change this to your output pin #
pinMode(outputPin, OUTPUT);
digitalWrite(outputPin, LOW);
delay(2000);
digitalWrite(outputPin, HIGH);

Simple enough


----------



## BowDown

Thanks to Neil's assistance I now have working steering wheel controls! It's nice when a plan comes together. Oh how I have missed the steering wheel controls. 

So far the buttons are just single function.. but after finals I will program a short/long-press button routine.


----------



## BowDown

I setup a basic tune on the dcx2496 and then installed it into its temp home. Just need to connect a few wires then I can try it out. I'm leaving the minidsp installed with original wiring so I can easily swap between the 2 for comparison. Prbly take 2 min total time switch between them.


















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## Freijojo

Hi, the dcx 2496 is a very good DSP. I use it in my car, mine's modified for have a optical input and a volume control. You can deport the control panel for use adjustement without pc.
Enjoy it !


----------



## BowDown

Freijojo said:


> Hi, the dcx 2496 is a very good DSP. I use it in my car, mine's modified for have a optical input and a volume control. You can deport the control panel for use adjustement without pc.
> Enjoy it !


Awesome. Do you have a link to your optical mod? I was planning to run digital Bnc to impedance matcher to aes. 



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## Freijojo

BowDown said:


> Awesome. Do you have a link to your optical mod? I was planning to run digital Bnc to impedance matcher to aes.


Unfortunately, I did not modified by myself. If you want i send you the contact of the guy that can do it ? 

























(it's not a actually picture, now i have remplace the XLR by RCA )

And in my car:
















The left comand is for the Balance and the Right comand is for the Volume


----------



## BowDown

Very cool man. Looks like he replaced the whole input/output section. So the network jack is for the display hookup? How far away do you have the 2 pieces? 



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----------



## Freijojo

You have 2 digital enter: in B one optical and in A is one Coaxial.
In Tern on/off it's a selector for the both inputs.
And you have in the input C a conector for the volume and balance control


----------



## n_olympios

Do you use the two knobs under the C90R as the volume and balance control then?


----------



## Freijojo

n_olympios said:


> Do you use the two knobs under the C90R as the volume and balance control then?


Yes. When the c90r is in digital out mode, if you don't use a Sony processor you can't use the C90' volume control.
This is the same for Alpine/ Pioneer... if you don't use a brand processor.


----------



## BowDown

Luckily enough my source unit controls volume prior to the DSP. So I don't have to worry about such things .


----------



## BowDown

Freijojo said:


> Yes. When the c90r is in digital out mode, if you don't use a Sony processor you can't use the C90' volume control.
> This is the same for Alpine/ Pioneer... if you don't use a brand processor.


I powered mine up today and with having my amps come on at the same time as the processor I have a wicked on/off noise. Did you experience the same thing?


----------



## Freijojo

No, i haven't a noise when i make power on or off. 
But my input/outpout bord in the dcx is not the original part of Behringer...


----------



## BowDown

I think I may have a ground issue. Could be causing the floor noise I was experiencing with the other processor. Will know more when I upgrade the



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## ebrit003

BowDown said:


> I think I may have a ground issue. Could be causing the floor noise I was experiencing with the other processor. Will know more when I upgrade the


Now that is some professional type suspense plotting. I read 55 page of build log, stay up until 1AM, and the very last post is a cut-off sentence. Ring, ring - pick up the phone it's Hollywood calling.

Great build bro - a good read indeed. 

Two questions:
How are you powering those giant processors?
What ever happened to the dash sub?


----------



## BowDown

ebrit003 said:


> Now that is some professional type suspense plotting. I read 55 page of build log, stay up until 1AM, and the very last post is a cut-off sentence. Ring, ring - pick up the phone it's Hollywood calling.
> 
> Great build bro - a good read indeed.
> 
> Two questions:
> How are you powering those giant processors?
> What ever happened to the dash sub?


Haha. Upgrade the ground connection. 

Thanks man. It's been quite the ride. 

Minidsp is powered off a +/- feed from my accessory fuse block I added ip front. It's a native 12v piece. The dcx2496 has been converted to 12v by swapping the power supply. 



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## BowDown

Dash sub is sitting in my office at work. Lol. 



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## BowDown

Ground was the issue. All is fixed!!


Ok, initial DCX2496 listening impressions left me way confused.

I programmed the DCX2496 with the same TA/Phase/Crossover/Level settings as the miniDSP.

No Go!

So I left the crossover settings, but started from scratch. First I played some mono noise, and level matched the front 4 drivers.
Values were completely different from what I had on the miniDSP.

Then I started working with the output delay (short delay)... I could barely notice a difference at all! Image was not moving. So I reset the values back to 0.00ms, and started moving phase (in 5 deg increments). OMG! Image centered right up on the wide bands, did the same for the midbasses. Cleanest sound I have ever heard in my car! 


While I'm very early into the tune on this I'm already at a point I feel is beyond what the miniDSP had given me. No EQ what so ever yet!


----------



## BowDown

Freijojo said:


> No, i haven't a noise when i make power on or off.
> But my input/outpout bord in the dcx is not the original part of Behringer...


Does your short delay for TA tab make any stage placement changes? When adjusting TA I didn't notice any changes.. but when adjusting phase I was able to center up the image nicely!


----------



## ecbmxer

Wow, 5 deg phase adjustment. Fancy


----------



## BowDown

ecbmxer said:


> Wow, 5 deg phase adjustment. Fancy


True.

I found out I need to toggle "long delay" on from another tab before the short delay works. LOL.

I'll try centering up image using TA first, then see how the phase adjustment thing works .

So far i'm saving the preset I have now.. it's perdy .


----------



## BowDown

Got to say. After 0'ing out the phase, enabled delay functionality, and ta'd the car... It's very close to the phase settings. I did end up keeping the left midbass out 90deg in phase. Really helped shrink the size of the midbass center image. 



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----------



## Freijojo

BowDown said:


> Does your short delay for TA tab make any stage placement changes? When adjusting TA I didn't notice any changes.. but when adjusting phase I was able to center up the image nicely!


Have you disengaged all the setting, and put the delay in on position ? 
In my car the short delay work...


----------



## BowDown

Well it's been over a month without update LOL...

I have the DCX2496 dialed in pretty well. OMG I wish I had this in before finals. Imaging is phenomenal.. everything has an exact place, and space around it. Listening position has moved from the back of the steering wheel to midpoint of the dash. Increased depth.. and the blend between drivers is great. No rainbow what so ever.

I have reprogrammed the Arduino that is running the OEM controls/Steering wheel controls. It now connects to the N7 via bluetooth modem. I have long/short press buttons. It's really an OEM like integration now. 

I purchased another Arduino (one I have is tapped). I'm going to use this Arduino to drive a 4 channel MOSFET switch bank, small 1.5" LCD Screen, and a temperature probe. The main point of this unit is to provide me with a delay module to time everything on/off. It also allows me to have a key-off runtime feature by just pressing the OEM on/off button for demoing... I can also have outside temperature displayed on the screen post bootup. 

I purchased a broken DEQ2496 on eBay for almost the cost of shipping. As I had hoped the fix was easy.. it was a couple bad caps, and a loose power supply cable inside. So for $30 I got a $350 unit! I'm going to convert the unit to 12v DC and install it on top of the DCX2496. The capabilities of this EQ are just mind boggling. Check it out on Behringer's site. 

I'm fighting either a CAP issue, or a bad speaker wire on my left midbass. I'm still troubleshooting it.. but in the end I really didn't care much for the in-wall wiring I used as speaker wire.. it just gets really stiff in colder weather. With the door opening/closing I'm sure the wire casing is starting to stress crack because of it. So this may be my issue... but if not I will try swapping the midbass driver with a spare I have. Worst case I'll open up the amp and investigate. After putting power through it at medium volume for a few minutes the problem clears up. So it may be a VC on the driver, or a CAP in the amp?

Cosmetics still aren't done. I have a good gameplan now of what I want to do... but lunch hours are getting eaten up, and with holiday's coming I don't think much progress will be made there till after the new year.

I did get a nice HAKKO FX-888D Soldering Station as a gift. So having all this new Arduino stuff to play with is going to make for a fun project.


----------



## ecbmxer

What did you do to fix your ground issue you mentioned before? Just find a new bolt or drill out a hole for a dedicated ground bolt? Just curious. Nice work on fixing that Behringer unit!


----------



## BowDown

Instead of running the const +/- feed from my accessory fuseblock up front where the tablet get it's power, I ran it off the distroblocks that feed my amps in the trunk. Apparently the ground is much better back there. When I finish my delay module the wiring up front will be upgraded/replaced so I'll choose a better ground point.


----------



## ecbmxer

Oh I see. It wasn't the amp ground. I was curious as I have a slight bit of hiss with gains real low on my amp and turn on pop (slight). I plan to upgrade the ground from the existing bolt I used under a seat, but just haven't got around to it. May or may not even help.


----------



## coolmind

i am impressed with your installation,actually you make me want to give a try to neo 8 in free air installation in my car.


----------



## BowDown

coolmind said:


> i am impressed with your installation,actually you make me want to give a try to neo 8 in free air installation in my car.


Thanks man. I'm happy to say I'm impressed as well. :thumbup:



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## BowDown

Coming along nicely.


















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## OldScoolCA

Nice work dude, glad to see over the top installs still live.


----------



## BowDown

Delay module is done! 

Just need to find a home for the screen and assemble the halves. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9aVG6NlWOM&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## captainobvious

Nice work Justin. I can't wait to get a chance to see and hear this thing again this season 


-Steve


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Some might think it's a fairly simple device but there's a lot of logic that went into it. Between 2 different power inputs, starting thump protection, momentary timer function, 2 temperature probe display on running status.... Along with the steering wheel controls and oem radio controls converted to bluetooth. Lol. 



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----------



## JayinMI

BowDown said:


> Thanks man. Some might think it's a fairly simple device but there's a lot of logic that went into it. Between 2 different power inputs, starting thump protection, momentary timer function, 2 temperature probe display on running status.... Along with the steering wheel controls *and oem radio controls converted to bluetooth.* Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Say what?!? 

So you converted them to bluetooth to control the tablet? Nice solution. I figured you were going to interpret the buttons and emulate a USB keyboard function to make them work, tho that would have required writing some android software instead of staying mainly in C++/Arduino. 

The installer that used to work for me was telling me that PAC is working on (or has just come out with) a piece that does the same thing, converting steering wheel controls to BT to work with the iPad.

I wish the weather would warm up so I could go back to being motivated to work on my car. Not having a garage sucks, especially when it's going to be -4*F tomorrow (not the wind chill...the actual temp.)

Jay


----------



## BowDown

True. The arduino that's interfacing the controls is now running via a bluetooth modem. Running a usb keyboard emulator worked Ok.. But I did need memory resident software on the tablet and the software was flakey. This setup is much better all around. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

More mockup. Now to cut an abs piece to trim it out. 

















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## tlk09

Would love to see your video clip. (YouTube blocked it).. I just installed N7 in my dash this week. My car has steering wheel controls using resistive ladder. I'm having that go to arduino Leonardo then will send certain controls to N7 and will pass on the volume and handsfree button presses to factory radio using a digital pot 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## BowDown

tlk09 said:


> Would love to see your video clip. (YouTube blocked it).. I just installed N7 in my dash this week. My car has steering wheel controls using resistive ladder. I'm having that go to arduino Leonardo then will send certain controls to N7 and will pass on the volume and handsfree button presses to factory radio using a digital pot
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


They blocked my video? The video was the delay module working. 

In all honesty I'm using a Leonardo for my resistive ladder steering wheel and button matrix on the oem radio buttons... I had it connected via USB to emulate a keyboard and it was flakey. Problem is you need to use an app like external keyboard helper to remap the Leonardo keys to media keys. The Leonardo can not emulate a media key. The power on and off of the tablet (deep sleep) would cause some timing issues between the Leonardo and the keyboard app. Also it disables your onscreen keyboard so you have to toggle between the 2 for searching. 

Do yourself a favor and get the bluesmirf bluetooth modem. That will emulate a full keyboard. I can send you my sketch if you want to see the programming end. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## tlk09

Yeah I did notice during my testing, when using external keyboard that my onscreen keyboard wouldn't open. So Bluetooth is the best option huh? I'll send you a PM to get the sketch.


----------



## BowDown

Next time I'm on my pc I'll shoot that over. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## carbos

Technology class！


----------



## BowDown

Bezel revisited. 

































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

So you switched to a newer fusion bezel?

Jay


----------



## BowDown

I wanted the navigation screen trim piece so I can complete the oem integration of my Nexus 7 tablet. The one from my model year would be too small. Also when you got the navigation package you also got digital hvac controls. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

Makes sense. I haven't seen very many Fusions with the nav bezel, so I wasn't entirely sure what I was looking at.

Nice progress.

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Edges all sanded. Ready to tape off and glue tomorrow. 












Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Slow progress but some progress... Got the piece all tapped off and got the abs material shaved down and put into a jar waiting for acetone.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

A little late, I know, but another suggestion I've used successfully for years is to sand ABS with 80 grit sandpaper and save the dust. Put the dust in the gaps (I put masking tape on the back side) and add thin 2 sec CA glue. Might be less messy than using ABS sludge, tho I've never tried that way...looking forward to progress pics.

Jay


----------



## BowDown

First stage with the abs slurry. Worked pretty well I think. The backside is going to take alot of abs! So I ordered some abs pellets on ebay... Save me a lot of time trying to shred this abs sheet I have. So far so good though. 


























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Test fit! Now that I know it'll work time to start sanding/filling.


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quietfly

nice... can you post pics of the front interior again to give us an overall view of what it looks like? in my head i still see plannars in the a pillars


----------



## eddieg

BowDown said:


> First stage with the abs slurry. Worked pretty well I think. The backside is going to take alot of abs! So I ordered some abs pellets on ebay... Save me a lot of time trying to shred this abs sheet I have. So far so good though.
> 
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> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


Hi, 

I have a question as for the abs pellets, how do you use them? How do you turn them into sludge? 

Do you just heat them with a burner? Solder? Cook them some how? 

I've seen before a glue gun for abs rods but it is expensive for a common diyer and pellets are usually used by 3d printers for all I could find on Google up so far, so what is the technique?

Thanks, been following this install for quite a while


----------



## BowDown

You take ABS pellets or small pieces and put them into a glass jar... add some Acetone and stir (I used a popsicle stick). After a couple min it was melted into a sludge. I then applied it to the 2 pieces (that were sanded down to just ABS exposed) and it starts to melt the base material as well. Takes a bit to fill in the gaps, but if you work in thin passes you can build it up to the point of sanding. It's like a chemical weld.

Odor wasn't that bad.


----------



## thehatedguy

That's old school abs bonding at it's finest...one solid piece of plastic when it is done.

I didn't have the patience to do that and bought some Weld-On IPS 2354 (or was it 4707 or 1802?) when I was making a bottom of a dash in my old car out of plastic.

If anyone decides to go the Weld-On route, you better have a WELL ventilated area to work in...it has fumes like nothing else I have worked with.


----------



## moparman79

you guys could also use plastic repair when doing bezels. That is what i use for any plastic and fiberglass mods. Easy to sand, only takes 15 min to dry and 1hr for full cure. 3M gun and paste, not cheap but gets the job done. The gun is around $65 and the abs paste around $30 for 6.75oz tube part#(04240).


----------



## eddieg

So simple that it escaped my mind 

Thank you! :laugh:

I guess it would also work with super glue as it creates a similar reaction on plastics.

And thank you all for the further tips provided.

I just hope that people notice that the gun in the picture is a double paste tube gun - first time for me to see this.


----------



## moparman79

yeah, I used to use duramix 4058 and 4040 years ago. the gun was $100 then, then 3M bought that company and they change the gun style. So I had to buy another gun. yes its double piston, one is small and the other one is larger. 

3M Duramix 04240 4240 Semi Rigid Plastic Repair Urethane | eBay

Autobodynow.com - 3M


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## eddieg

That is just awesome! thank you! 

Why did they ever removed the thanks button?


----------



## n_olympios

There's the "add to reputation" button right there (between online status and report).


----------



## eddieg

Just did, just did


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## req

wow justin. way cool stuff going on here. i need to pay more attention 

im glad the ABS plastic welding technique worked for you!!


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Technique works very well. 

More updates. Between abs shims, and the straps this tablet is not going anywhere. Need to order a new anti-glare film. 


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quietfly

looks sweet


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. Waiting on the bag of abs pellets to come in so I can finish this bezel up. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

More abs work on the backside. Once this cures it'll be good to go strength wise. Now back to finishing the face.

























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Cured up nicely. Time to start sanding/filling!


----------



## BowDown

Sanded and light 2nd coat applied.  


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Orion525iT

Looks great! In regards to the abs/acetone, does it dry just as strong as nornal abs? I have a thick piece of abs that trims my hatch opening, and also abs on the hatch pillars. I needed to modify these to work with trunk board I made for the subs. But these areas need to be fairly strong because they will take abuse when loading/unloading stuff.


----------



## BowDown

Yes sir. This thing is a strong as the original piece. Once the acetone dissipates it's just pure abs left behind. The acetone also melts the base material on application so it's truly a chemical weld.


----------



## BowDown

Found the abs pellets suck ass. Leaves little pin holes all over after sanding. So back to making my own shavings. I put a 3rd coat on the top. Hopefully the last. 


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Blown Mustang GT

Looking good, bud! Can't wait to see it in person.


----------



## BowDown

Blown Mustang GT said:


> Looking good, bud! Can't wait to see it in person.


Thanks man. Glad to have this part of the project approaching the finish line. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Ready for spot filler primer! 












Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quality_sound

That looks awesome


----------



## BowDown

quality_sound said:


> That looks awesome


Thanks man. I'm really happy with how things are progressing. I still need to radius out the bottom of the screen section to allow the knobs to fit back where they need to. Other than that it's just primer/paint.


----------



## BowDown

Shot a couple proof coats of spot builder primer. So far so good!


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Dylanmott

my question, why not make an actual pan from the tablet?


----------



## BowDown

Dylanmott said:


> my question, why not make an actual pan from the tablet?


Well I could of used the tablet to shape some sort of tray, but the idea was to make the install look like a factory navigation. I would rather not have the tablet itself exposed in any way. Also the bezel piece has a compound angle/curve surface to it.. making something with a bevel type reveal to show only the viewable area of the screen proved to be too much of a challenge for me. So I bought a factory nav bezel and harvested the piece I needed to make it work.


----------



## Mic10is

BowDown said:


> Shot a couple proof coats of spot builder primer. So far so good!
> 
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> Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


if thats high build from an aerosol can, it can take forever to dry properly and even still it has a tendency to eventually lift.


----------



## BowDown

Mic10is said:


> if thats high build from an aerosol can, it can take forever to dry properly and even still it has a tendency to eventually lift.


That it is.. Dupli-Color High Build Primer. I know what you mean about lifting, but I've only seen it happen on hard edges. I laid it down in 3 fairly light coats. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't run into any finishing horror stories after all the work that has gone into the fabrication of this. :laugh:


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Let it cure for 1 year

Thats what mic is saying


----------



## The Performer

You'll be fine if you've worked with it enough to get the feel of it. Just keep it super light coats. You'll know it's cured right when you wet sand it and there's no issues. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## BowDown

Just in case I'm thinking the best course of action is to sand it down to just a fill like use. Once smooth enough for regular primer do the whole piece. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

AVIDEDTR said:


> Let it cure for 1 year
> 
> Thats what mic is saying


Not sure if anything really lasts a year in my car...


----------



## BowDown

Nexus 7 is getting sent down the road. She's been good to me.. but I'm going with a Toshiba WT8 Windows 8.1 8" Tablet. 

Will fit the trim ring better, and allow me to do alot more custom programming.. Also I will be able to adjust the DCX and DEQ settings as it's Win32.


----------



## quietfly

nice... your going with a reall win32 tablet not a win RT?


----------



## BowDown

Ya it's a real Win8.1 tablet. Want the ability to run all windows software.


----------



## quietfly

very cool i look forward to seeing it


----------



## BowDown

While progress has been slow on this tablet project it has been moving forward.

Anyway I ditched the N7 tablet, and purchased a Toshiba Encore 8 Windows 8.1 Tablet for my car. It will fill out the bezel screen opening without having any black border, it boots very fast from full shutdown, it supports everything USB on the planet, and I can write apps for it easily. Also adding a USB CD drive for people that have their own CDs for demoing would be a plus.

Anyway the tablet out the box was not car friendly... but nothing a bit of soldering iron work, and some software programming can't fix.

The tablet does not support simultaneous charging while using an OTG cable.. so My only 2 options was to have my system control center (SCC) break the OTG ground pin and start charging the battery at the early hours of the night, or remove the battery all together and power the tablet with a DC-DC converter. I chose the 2nd option. 

I also made my own USB OTG cable as I really wanted a cable that went directly from microUSB to USB A connector for the USB HUB. 

The SCC is also done. I rewrote the program on it so it now does all it's functions based on real-time analysis instead of using oldschool delay commands. 

So in a nutshell this is what my SCC does for me:

When idle:
-checks 2 temp probes every minutue that will be positioned with 1 outside the cabin, and 1 inside the cabin.
-checks a pin tied to various components that interface the vehicle ACC+ to a digital pin on the Arduino to monitor when the cars ACC+ is active.
-checks a pin tied to the momentary PWR button the re-purposed OEM Radio Controls.
-Runs logic on the outside temp probe readings and if ambient temp is below 0deg F it will not allow the system to power on without a special user override button being pressed. Also reports this state on the LCD screen attached.


When PWR button is pressed and no ACC+ is available or ACC+ goes HIGH:
-illuminates LCD backlight
-checks for ambient temp flag
-powers on 2nd arduino that interfaces the OEM radio controls and steering wheel controls into a bluetooth keyboard
-powers on DCX/DEQ processors
-powers on USB Hub
-virtually presses the tablets power button to prompt it to turn on
-powers on amps
-If running on PWR button it starts a 15-Min run clock. After 15-min expires it shuts the system down automatically. If ACC+ comes into play during runtime it will disable the automatic shutdown. 
*[all this is done in a timed sequence to ensure that no noise is a result, and devices are located by the tablet correctly]*

When PWR button is pressed and SCC is running, or loss of ACC+ power:
-amps off!
-virtually presses the tablets power button to prompt it to turn off (shutdown)
-powers off USB Hub
-powers off DCX/DEQ
-powers off 2nd arduino
-turns off LCD backlight
-goes idle


If at any point during power on the trigger that caused the SCC to activate goes LOW it will immediately power off the amps, then start the shutdown sequence on the rest of the items. 

The tablet DC-DC will remain powered up at all times.. When the tablet is off it pulls trace amounts of current just to keep the CMOS on the laptop powered up for date/time and system settings. The SCC arduino will also stay powered up at all times. It really doesn't pull much either.


----------



## Orion525iT

BowDown said:


> Nexus 7 is getting sent down the road. She's been good to me.. but I'm going with a Toshiba WT8 Windows 8.1 8" Tablet.
> 
> Will fit the trim ring better, and allow me to do alot more custom programming.. Also I will be able to adjust the DCX and DEQ settings as it's Win32.


I have been thinking about this too. With all the contortions one has to go through with android, and compatibility of software, ect. I think x86 based Windows tablets are the way to go. They have come down in price quite a bit, and you can get one for around $400 or so. Not bad. I think Microsoft had some intial reservations about the x86 tablets competing with their own Arm based RT tablets at the same (or nearly the same) price points. I think that concern went out the window when they failed to sell large numbers of either. 

Nice build as always. Maybe this has been asked, but where have you picked up most of your information on the arduino and how to set things up?


----------



## BowDown

Orion525iT said:


> Nice build as always. Maybe this has been asked, but where have you picked up most of your information on the arduino and how to set things up?


Lots of Google my friend. Lol. 




Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## JayinMI

Arduino.cc is a great resource. That's where I got almost all of the info I needed, so far. That and Neil. lol

Jay


----------



## BowDown

Larger tablet fits great after some trimming. 


























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quietfly

Damn thats amazing! i might just have to venture up 87 and see/hear this sometime over the summer......


----------



## BowDown

quietfly said:


> Damn thats amazing! i might just have to venture up 87 and see/hear this sometime over the summer......


Hell Ya man. I'm working on getting the Damn install done for good by then. Lol. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## RunninRedline

Awesome build. Those are some huge pillar mids!


----------



## BowDown

RunninRedline said:


> Awesome build. Those are some huge pillar mids!


Very true. There's a bit of dead space in them now that the neo3's are no longer there. But I'll be damned if I redo them . lol 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Black Rain

I love what you've done with the tablet. I once thought of doing this but didn't have the right info to do so. I'd love to hear it if we were closer to NY. Maybe we can get you to come doen to one of our NC GTGs.


----------



## naiku

The Windows tablet looks great, I had debated an 8" in my dash but it would have needed too much chopping of the area around where the tablet goes (which would then give me problems down the line when I want to put the stock stereo back in the car).


----------



## Joenaz2003

I just started reading this build yesterday and I finally finish. Awesome build doesn't cover it. You do some really great work and have a lot of patients.

Is the windows tablet fully functional with your other equipment yet? I may have to pick your brain in the near future if AT&T ever releases one on their cell network. I'm not going to control everything from it but would like to be able to tweak my 3sixty.3, monitor temps/voltage and use it for nav and 360deg cameras.


----------



## BowDown

Joenaz2003 said:


> I just started reading this build yesterday and I finally finish. Awesome build doesn't cover it. You do some really great work and have a lot of patients.
> 
> Is the windows tablet fully functional with your other equipment yet? I may have to pick your brain in the near future if AT&T ever releases one on their cell network. I'm not going to control everything from it but would like to be able to tweak my 3sixty.3, monitor temps/voltage and use it for nav and 360deg cameras.


Thanks man. It's definately been a build of passion. :laugh:

Still trying to 'finish' it up. The tablet is almost ready to install. I'm doing some finish work on the bezel. I would like to have the install all buttoned up before the April show. 

Bring some music on USB thumb drive.. Higher the quality the better .


----------



## Joenaz2003

It's definitely awesome. Great fab skills. Your build is very inspiring and gave me an idea of what to do with my 2 JL 6w3v3s.

I saw a video of some guys wrapping an iPad in saran wrap then painters tape and fiberglassing a shell right to the back of it. They put some felt on the shell and magnets. Don't know if you've seen or tried it but it may be a good option as often as you change your equipment around lol.

Once I get the windows tablet I'm going to give it a try and FG the shell in the dash with my HU and HVAC controls set back. Then maybe a flip down or out or something to get to them. I may do a test run with my iPad or iPhone. At least I can use it for Nav or BT streaming for now.


----------



## BowDown

More shaping underway. Cleaned up tuner and vol holes. Started with small lcd trim. Need to clean up the edges and that'll be done. Next up primer and paint!

























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Bit of rough sanding done.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quietfly

looks good!


----------



## req

right on with the windows tablet. 

i have been looking and looking for a capatance lcd screen to use with my carpc and the only one that keeps popping up that is worth a damn is vaporware for over a year. i dont understand why 8" touch screens (NOT RESISTIVE) are not a thing i can buy yet. it seems like there are a million different types of tablets running the screens - where are they for the oem\pc market?

i just want to get that, so i can wipe my hard drive and load windows 8 so i can control my dsp.


the bezel is looking real nice. i wish i had the programming skill you have man.


----------



## Orion525iT

req said:


> right on with the windows tablet.
> 
> i have been looking and looking for a capatance lcd screen to use with my carpc and the only one that keeps popping up that is worth a damn is vaporware for over a year. i dont understand why 8" touch screens (NOT RESISTIVE) are not a thing i can buy yet. it seems like there are a million different types of tablets running the screens - where are they for the oem\pc market?
> 
> i just want to get that, so i can wipe my hard drive and load windows 8 so i can control my dsp.
> 
> 
> the bezel is looking real nice. i wish i had the programming skill you have man.


^This. I started to put together a car PC way back, and got stymied on the screen. With the massive supply and availability of devices with HD capacitive multi-touch it seems insane that there is a lack of stand alone screens. I can't get my head around it. Instead we are stuck with crappy low res resistive screens at a premium price. At this point a Windows 8.1 tablet is a better option, especially once you factor in all the extras required to get a car PC up and running. Windows recently lowered the price of 8.1 licensing because of lack of sales. In the next few months, 64-bit on lower tiered tablets will be available too.

The only other saving grace maybe the release of Ubuntu for tablets and phones that allow for cross platform applications. 

Sorry, didn't mean to take away from the build, I just feel a bit frustrated on this subject.


----------



## BowDown

Exactly my thoughts.. for the cost of a decent screen you could have the whole unit.. now with Windows RT on life support.. full blown Win8 tablets are the norm. This is great news for HU applications! Flexibility, capacitive screen, small foot print. Just takes a little modification to integrate.


----------



## captainobvious

req said:


> right on with the windows tablet.
> 
> i have been looking and looking for a capatance lcd screen to use with my carpc and the only one that keeps popping up that is worth a damn is vaporware for over a year. i dont understand why 8" touch screens (NOT RESISTIVE) are not a thing i can buy yet. it seems like there are a million different types of tablets running the screens - where are they for the oem\pc market?
> 
> i just want to get that, so i can wipe my hard drive and load windows 8 so i can control my dsp.
> 
> 
> the bezel is looking real nice. i wish i had the programming skill you have man.


What's the difference between the two screen types?

Why wouldn't something like this work:

High Bright Lilliput 869GL-80NP/C/T/RCI 8" Touch Screen with HDMI and Auto Switch


----------



## BowDown

Resistive is single touch, and pressure based. Cheaper resistive screens can be inaccurate, and limiting as it tends to have the mouse cursor follow your presses. 

Capactive is multi-touch.. more of a modern 'touch screen'.


----------



## captainobvious

Ahhhh, I see. Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## req

not to mention - temperature changes strongly affect the resistive film membrane inside the screen. strong temperature swings can make the touch calibration innacurate therefore ending up with touch points that are not where your finger is. currently, the bottm left corner of my screen where the volume is expierences a 3mm or so shift to the right, and turning the volume down can be tricky as it hits the volume up arrow to the right.

its really starting to piss me off - so i am desperately trying to find a screen that is not attached to a tablet - but the market is barren.


----------



## BowDown

Full primer coat. Light wet sand and if all looks good paint tomorrow!











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Mixed kind of day today. Got a good amount of things done thanks to Brian's (turbo5upra) help... But the main thing I was hoping to finish was the bezel. After wet sanding and 2 coats of paint some defects in the panel halted progress. I'll consider the 2 coats of paint a proof coat. Lol. More bodywork is needed. 

































Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Nice work, that is a really nice 'guide coat' you have laid down 

not sure how your sanding this piece, but a tip I learned from painting
lots of irregular motorcycle parts is to use a sponge between your hand
and the paper. helps relieve finger pressure points too. if you already
know this, pretend I wasn't being Capt. Obvious. Little bit of spot putty 
and this part will be good to go


----------



## BowDown

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Nice work, that is a really nice 'guide coat' you have laid down
> 
> not sure how your sanding this piece, but a tip I learned from painting
> lots of irregular motorcycle parts is to use a sponge between your hand
> and the paper. helps relieve finger pressure points too. if you already
> know this, pretend I wasn't being Capt. Obvious. Little bit of spot putty
> and this part will be good to go


Lol this is true. Main problem was not being able to see the imperfections due to multiple color variations and flat finish of the primer. Oh well, spot putty is in my future. 

I used a fairly flat medium to level out the joints on the piece but I used a folded piece of sandpaper to do most of the finishing work. 

Gotta get it near perfect or it will drive me up the wall. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

2 more rounds of fill, hopefully some primer today and see if I have the piece in a near flawless condition I'm after...


----------



## quietfly

very cool, finish sanding always takes me forever as i get nit-picky and always continue too long/ to many coats...


----------



## captainobvious

FLYONWALL9 said:


> if you already
> know this, pretend I wasn't being Capt. Obvious. Little bit of spot putty
> and this part will be good to go


Someone call me ?



That color looks very rich Justin, I'm digging it. That's going to look great when complete. I'm definitely looking forward to getting another demo in Syracuse.

-Steve


----------



## req

i noticed when i was sanding my bezel that the seams were a pain in the ass to smooth out. it seems like plastic heats up when sanded, and bondo has more of a uniform heat index compared to plastic. so maybe wet sand it to keep the plastic cool while you are sanding?

but thats just a guess.


----------



## BowDown

req said:


> i noticed when i was sanding my bezel that the seams were a pain in the ass to smooth out. it seems like plastic heats up when sanded, and bondo has more of a uniform heat index compared to plastic. so maybe wet sand it to keep the plastic cool while you are sanding?
> 
> but thats just a guess.


You may be onto something there. Could be that the heat causes the panel to expand then contract. 

I worked with a couple thin layers of spot filler and it's like 99% now! Just need a couple minor touch-ups on the primer and it should be good to go for paint.

Can't wait to get this bezel project done so I can listen to the system again. At least the rear floor panels are not critical to system operation.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## quietfly

Prudy!


----------



## BowDown

Got paint? Sure do... I like it! 99% is close enough.











Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Bezel back together. Looking sharp.  


















Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## BowDown

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Orion525iT

BowDown said:


> Can't wait to get this bezel project done so I can listen to the system again. At least the rear floor panels are not critical to system operation.



Did I miss somethin? What are you doing to the floor panels?

That bezel looks friggin awesome! Totally stock looking. I guess the down side is that nobody will realize just how much effort you put into that thing


----------



## BowDown

Orion525iT said:


> Did I miss somethin? What are you doing to the floor panels?
> 
> That bezel looks friggin awesome! Totally stock looking. I guess the down side is that nobody will realize just how much effort you put into that thing


Truth. Lol. 

The panels are from a previous generation of install. Don't fit well around the subwoofer tub. So I'm making new ones. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


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## BowDown

Did a test fit in the car and finished securing everything down. System control center is done!

























Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


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## Black Rain

I have been starring at these new pics for a while and can't seem to figure out what type of power distro this is. What is behind all this giving it juice? It looks interesting though just curious.


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## jdsoldger

It only took 2 days, but I managed to get through this and the dash sub thread. Wow! What a fantastic read. Keep at it!

What drivers ended up replacing the RS180's though? *is curious*


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## BowDown

Looks like I haven't updated this in awhile. The bezel is in and outside a little bit of filler shrinkage is looking great. New tablet and system controller are working well. I'm currently working on the new trunk floor panels. On the home stretch! 

I replaced the rs180s with HAT L6v2's. 

Hair less output below 63hz but a bit tighter and more realistic sounding. Nit picking really... system sounds ****ing awesome though. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## BowDown

More pictures to come later today. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## BowDown

Looks like I need to take more pics. Lol. Look for updates later. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## req

keep up the good work justin. that bezel looks perfect.


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## BowDown

Floor fabrication is almost done. Just gotta glue the pieces down light sand and carpet.























Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## ebrit003

Bro, that looks so good. Thanks for the pics


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> On the home stretch!


Riiiiiight...

(Four and a half years later) 

Just busting your chops bro, it's looking good. I would love to hear this car some day. I will say your build saga has at least given me fair warning of what I am getting myself into before I tear into my brand new Focus.


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## req

dont mean to thread jack justin - but (@tj Mobile Audio) where in nova are you? im assuming you have a shop?


btw the false floor looks great.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

@req: I'm in Alexandria. No shop at this time; I did freelance installs for three or four years while I lived in Idaho, but have not had time or space to set up my operation since moving east.


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## AVIDEDTR

bout time Justin


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## BowDown

AVIDEDTR said:


> bout time Justin


Still not done. Haven't had a lunch hour to devote to it since. Lol. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

Still...that's a long time coming and is looking really fantastic Justin. Great work there! I'm looking forward to seeing that puppy finished. Are you going to wrap it in matching carpet?


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## Black Rain

Very nice floor cover for sub. That amp rack looks like an engine for a Rat Rod, which is actually pretty cool and unique.


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## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Still...that's a long time coming and is looking really fantastic Justin. Great work there! I'm looking forward to seeing that puppy finished. Are you going to wrap it in matching carpet?


Ya I'm going to wrap it in the OEM matching charcoal carpet. The panels on the floor are there just to add subtle accents. I'm not sure if I'll paint the grill a charcoal color or keep it black. Figure that one out when I get there.

Still planning on illuminating the sub tub with RGB leds.


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## BowDown

Black Rain said:


> Very nice floor cover for sub. That amp rack looks like an engine for a Rat Rod, which is actually pretty cool and unique.


Thanks man. That sub is a beast with it's neodymium motor structure and 13.5" depth. :laugh:


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## Niebur3

That looks great. I really like the design. Something new.


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## Orion525iT

Black Rain said:


> That amp rack looks like an engine for a Rat Rod, which is actually pretty cool and unique.


Hilarious and true, yet something that will never be seen. 

Really cool to see the evolution.


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## BowDown

Floor is finally coming together. Ran out of carpet but here's some pics so far.























Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## req

dope man. 

but one question - why are you using oriented strand board for the false floor instead of plywood?


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## BowDown

req said:


> dope man.
> 
> but one question - why are you using oriented strand board for the false floor instead of plywood?


Well I was planning on using MDF for the entire thing.. but couldn't find 1/4" MDF in the 1/2 sheet I needed.. so I used what I had which was 1/4" OSB left over from my nursery room project. Not ideal material, but it's pretty well laminated to the MDF using construction adhesive.


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## quietfly

looks sweet


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## deltasaurus

I'm a little late to this party and just finished this entire build log. Have to say, Incredibly Awsome build! Also great dedication and perseverance. You are a true credit to the hobby. Only wish I lived closer so that I could enjoy the sound as well as the quality of work. I also am thinking of running either the Neo8s or Neo10's in one of the current builds I am working on, but don't know of anyone local to me running them.


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## BowDown

Wiring finished. Carpet done. May move the leds under the lid instead of around.









Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

that looks awesome.


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## BowDown

Thanks. Sort of looks like a power plant. Especially lit up with a yellow-green color. Lol. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## edouble101

The sub install looks great!


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## req

Badass Justin


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## Thrill_House

Look amazing Justin! Cant wait to see it in person next month!


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## BowDown

Thanks man. I should be there.. 

Just found this morning that my lack of tunes on the way home from work was my DSP puked the tune and reset itself back to factory... and unfortunately the tunes are stored in the DSP's internal memory and not on the laptop. ****!


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## req

oh mega bummer! i hope you can remember most of your settings...

now i have this twitch that makes me want to go write down all my current settings :uhoh:


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## BowDown

req said:


> oh mega bummer! i hope you can remember most of your settings...
> 
> now i have this twitch that makes me want to go write down all my current settings :uhoh:


May be worth it... I did a backup before finals but that was on the miniDSP. Not going to help here. Damnit.


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## captainobvious

That sucks Justin 

On a positive note, the trunk finishing looks great in the pics and even better in person from this past weekend. You've done a great job on it.

I need to make a point of demoing the car for the Syracuse meet to hear your changes. Looking forward to it.


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## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> That sucks Justin
> 
> On a positive note, the trunk finishing looks great in the pics and even better in person from this past weekend. You've done a great job on it.
> 
> I need to make a point of demoing the car for the Syracuse meet to hear your changes. Looking forward to it.


Thanks man. Glad to have something that I can show when opening the trunk. It's been years!


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## BowDown

The syracuse show will be nice as I will not have to judge it.. so I can give and ask for demos .


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## BowDown

Well my fan installation and face panel relocation seems to be a success on the DCX/DEQ processors. I had an overheating issue with the DSP which would cause some nasty sounds through the system @ full tilt. 

I also purchased a replacement soundcard for the Japanese knockoff ebay wonder. I believe there is some unwanted noise coming from the soundcard initialization. I went back to my old Music Fidelity V-Link. This soundcard was the cats ass, never should of sold it. LOL.

The cosmetics are still in the 'done' category. Just need to fab up a mount for the relocated displays so i can do some on the fly tuning without a laptop. 

I will post some pictures of the fan installation soon.


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## BowDown

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## BowDown

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

Sweet! Where are you planning to mount the displays?


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## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Sweet! Where are you planning to mount the displays?


I have room behind the rack mount blocks to push the units further towards the passenger rear quarter panel. Then I will rotate the control units face up and secure them in front of the dsp units. I do not need them upfront as I do 99% of tuning via a laptop. It would be nice to be able to change presets, or do a minor tweak without firing up the laptop though.


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## crept

Great work!!!


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## goodstuff

Good luck at finals bro.


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## BowDown

Thanks guys. I have high hopes for finals this year. She is sounding pretty sweet..


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## speakerboy

I just went through this whole thread, and it is so good. The level of craftsmanship and ingenuity here is impressive. I was looking for a "simple" tablet install, but this is definitely quality work. I hope to be able to here this system at some point. Rep given for the attention to detail and detailed logging of your progress. I'm curious as to why you still need a laptop for tuning? Wasn't that the main point for switching to the Windows 8 tablet? I'm just curious as I am looking to start on this venture as well.


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## BowDown

speakerboy said:


> I just went through this whole thread, and it is so good. The level of craftsmanship and ingenuity here is impressive. I was looking for a "simple" tablet install, but this is definitely quality work. I hope to be able to here this system at some point. Rep given for the attention to detail and detailed logging of your progress. I'm curious as to why you still need a laptop for tuning? Wasn't that the main point for switching to the Windows 8 tablet? I'm just curious as I am looking to start on this venture as well.


Thanks for the feedback. It's been a labor of love for sure. LOL.

Yes, with the Win8 tablet I can tune the DSP. It works decent.. but the software for my Behringer is OLD, like Win95 old. And running it on a 720P 8" tablet screen makes everything very small and not touch friendly. I can use a bluetooth mouse and a squinted eye to see everything.. but other than that I use the laptop for longer tuning sessions

Win8 has a magnification option, but it works like ball sac on this old of a program. It ends up making things cut off on the edge of the window and unusable as a result.

I'm switching out to a helix DSP this week.. just before finals too. Fun times.. but that should be more touch friendly for tuning.


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## speakerboy

The more I look at your install, the more I like the Neo8's. I wanted to do a widebander on my pillars, and these are thin enough to not be intrusive. Any issues with how close the metal pillar is to the back of the driver? Any more magnet shifting issues?


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## BowDown

I put a small piece of acoustic foam to help, but really it's the only way I've heard the drivers so I'm not sure if there's any ill effects. All I know is the neo8s's sound great up top from 300hz+ @ 48db slope. 

As far as magenets shifting I really don't know on this pair. My pillars are wrapped in grill cloth that's attached on the backside... not exactly easy to investigate. Nor do I really want to know at the moment. . I have been using a windshield screen all summer and my windows are now tinted dark to help with cabin temps.


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## upgrayedd

this build has went from nice to amazing. Awesome progress


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## BowDown

upgrayedd said:


> this build has went from nice to amazing. Awesome progress


Did very well at this years FINALS! Woohoo. I put myself in the Pro class at the beginning of the season even though my car is technically Amateur. 

I placed 5th in East Coast Championship, 5th in Nationals. 

Not bad considering I only have like $3k invested in equipment.


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## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Did very well at this years FINALS! Woohoo. I put myself in the Pro class at the beginning of the season even though my car is technically Amateur.
> 
> I placed 5th in East Coast Championship, 5th in Nationals.
> 
> Not bad considering I only have like $3k invested in equipment.



Way to go Justin! It's a testament to all of the hours spent tweaking and tuning to get things where you want it in this car. Congrats on a great performance!


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## BowDown

Thanks man. 

You have alot of great things going in your car as well. Curious where you lost the points.

I've already purchased some L1v2 tweeters to install in the sail panels. Hope to gain 2-3 points in width, and maybe a point or 2 on height.


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## few35t

Insane work, my head is spinning after going through this whole thing, sheesh.

Any updates? Did we ever get a pic of the dash after the final install? I didn't see one.


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## BowDown

Hmm.. it doesn't appear that I did post a pic of the dash. :laugh:

I have changed a few things:

-Pulled the DEQ/DCX and replaced it with a Helix DSP
-Redesigning the tablet controller by simplifying the Arduino, and letting a USB 8ch relay controller handle the triggering of accessories.
-Wrote a new front end software for the tablet.
-About 75% done with a 3.5" headsUp display add-on for the tablet to sit on the dash and keep me from glancing down at the tablet.
-Going to be adding some L1v2 tweeters to the sail panels.


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## JayinMI

Is it sad that I'm already looking forward to 2015 Finals so I can see some more of the cars I saw this year? lol This kind of stuff is really impressive to me. Now I guess I need to get my ass in gear and integrate my arduino controls/tablet/Audison display sooner rather than later. 

Jay


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## BowDown

Me too man. Look forward to someone else going down. Similar path. 



Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## BowDown

Bit of filler shrinkage to be corrected in the spring. Lol. More pics to come.


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## BowDown




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## JayinMI

I was glad I got a little seat time in this at 2014 Finals. I was really impressed with the integration of the factory controls. Do you know where finals will be this year? I'll probably be coming down from Michigan again, so much fun.

And I'll have sound this year as well as a CD to listen to. lol
I was so unprepared. smh.

Jay


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## few35t

Looks oem as fawk. I'm gonna have to get some fiberglass, resin, and body filler stuff and just fail a bunch of times at trying to fab something up so I can eventually maybe do it lol.


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## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> You have alot of great things going in your car as well. Curious where you lost the points.
> 
> I've already purchased some L1v2 tweeters to install in the sail panels. Hope to gain 2-3 points in width, and maybe a point or 2 on height.



Sorry, I guess I missed this reply a few months back.

Thanks, I really like where the Mazda is heading. I thought it was very good at finals and just needs a few small tweaks. I've attached my 2 scoresheets. The first is the INAC championship one (231 score) which was scored by Travis. The second one is the INAC triple points event (239 score) which was scored by Ben. 

I'll post these in my build log along with some notes.



I'm interested to hear how your car will sound with the addition of tweeters. Looking forward to the next time we meet up.


Steve


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## BowDown

Going to try something new. Never thought I would remove the planars, but these drivers have had my curiosity for awhile. So I'm going to take my spare set of pillars and create some new pods for these L3V2 wannabes, and my L1V2 tweeters. 

Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm


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## captainobvious

Those look very interesting actually. Definitely interested to see how they do for you.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

I am also interested to see how this goes for you. I have considered the idea of running a 3" class widebander in the sail panels along with a tweeter nearby in the stock location. The main thing stopping me is that the affordable drivers in this class (like the Dayton you linked) all seem to have very low power handling.

Perhaps I am being naive to think that 10w RMS is not nearly enough? Interesting concept no less.


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## BowDown

Well I'm betting money that the 10watt rating is full range without a crossover. Running them 250-6k should help them handle a great deal more.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Well I'm betting money that the 10watt rating is full range without a crossover. Running them 250-6k should help them handle a great deal more.


Makes sense, seems unlikely 10w RMS would be a thermal rating... Thanks for being a guinea pig!


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## TJ Mobile Audio

One more question - where will you be getting two extra amp channels? Or will you be sneaking a passive crossover in there?


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## BowDown

:laugh: Ya, tell me about it. I'm thinking of upgrading the amp on the sub as bridged to an 8 ohm load it's only seeing about 135-150watts. Then repurpose that amp... but I'm not finding what I want for the cheap price I want. LOL. 

So for testing I will be running subless.


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## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> Well I'm betting money that the 10watt rating is full range without a crossover. Running them 250-6k should help them handle a great deal more.


Exactly, and usually on a baffle, not in a sealed enclosure which also increases power handling.


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## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> :laugh: Ya, tell me about it. I'm thinking of upgrading the amp on the sub as bridged to an 8 ohm load it's only seeing about 135-150watts. Then repurpose that amp... but I'm not finding what I want for the cheap price I want. LOL.
> 
> So for testing I will be running subless.


How much power would you want/need on the front 6 drivers? And how about on the sub?


There is an excellent deal on a pair of like new JL XD amps in the classifieds that just recently came up. An XD600/6 and an XD600/1. I was actually considering it for the wifes vehicle. Might work great for you.


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## BowDown

Well I like the front stage power. Currently I have 4 channels of power up there:
135watts @ 4
65watts @ 8

Hoping to get 250watts to the sub at a minimum.


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## captainobvious

You can borrow my AS300.2 if you'd like. I think that might supply enough power for the sub...?



300 Watt per channel @ 4 Ohm
550 Watt per channel @ 2 Ohm
1100 Watt bridged mode @ 4 Ohm
1800 Watt bridged mode @ 2 Ohm
Or if it sells, I can buy the gear needed so you could borrow the AS200.4 which would beast your midbass and sub:




200 Watt per channel @ 4 Ohm
320 Watt per channel @ 2 Ohm
640 Watt bridged mode @ 4 Ohm
950 Watt bridged mode @ 2 Ohm


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## BowDown

500+ would really move that sub. Are you looking to sell it?


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## BowDown

My guess is it's crazy expensive. Was thinking Arc when I posted that, turns out is Mosconi. LOL.


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## captainobvious

Hah, yeah they are a bit pricey for sure. But very cheap when *borrowed *


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## BowDown

While I do appreciate the offer, I don't know if the temptation will be good for the wallet .


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## JayinMI

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Makes sense, seems unlikely 10w RMS would be a thermal rating... Thanks for being a guinea pig!


My Tang Band Bamboos are only rated at 12W, and I was running them off the front 2 channels of a JL HD 900/5 in my Genesis Coupe, and off 2 channels of a Sony Mobile ES XM-450G now. Haven't had any power issues. They're in pods, and crossed over in the 350ish range, IIRC.

Jay


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## Bankrupt

I just got a 2011 Ford Fusion sport with the sony 12 speaker W/ navigation. I as with many other's have been inspired by the work you put into your build. I would love to immatate your spare tire IB set-up but everyone tells me I'm crazy. lol I think I want to go active for the front stage for the first time and I also am planning a removable Microsoft surface pro 3 in and was wondering your thought's as the best way to wire it in. (besides wireless bluetooth) Have you looked into any of the many "gesture" controllers for headunits?


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## BowDown

Bankrupt said:


> I just got a 2011 Ford Fusion sport with the sony 12 speaker W/ navigation. I as with many other's have been inspired by the work you put into your build. I would love to immatate your spare tire IB set-up but everyone tells me I'm crazy. lol I think I want to go active for the front stage for the first time and I also am planning a removable Microsoft surface pro 3 in and was wondering your thought's as the best way to wire it in. (besides wireless bluetooth) Have you looked into any of the many "gesture" controllers for headunits?


It does take a bit of madness to cut such a large hole in the spare tire well. But damn the results were worth it. 

Just make sure you use materials and oiled air cleaner to keep the elements out. 

I haven't done much into the gesture end of things. Mainly because the steering wheel.controls are so convenient. Waving my hand in front of my face instead of just moving a finger that's already in the steering wheel.doesnt make much sense. 

Are you planning on keeping sync? If so u could bluetooth the surface to the sync system? Not exactly sq but good enough otherwise. 


Bankrupt said:


> I just got a 2011 Ford Fusion sport with the sony 12 speaker W/ navigation. I as with many other's have been inspired by the work you put into your build. I would love to immatate your spare tire IB set-up but everyone tells me I'm crazy. lol I think I want to go active for the front stage for the first time and I also am planning a removable Microsoft surface pro 3 in and was wondering your thought's as the best way to wire it in. (besides wireless bluetooth) Have you looked into any of the many "gesture" controllers for headunits?


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## JayinMI

Don't mean to mess up the thread, but it might be helpful info to others.
I'm getting ready to switch up to a Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4. Not 100% sure if I plan to use it with one of Sony's AppRemote capable radios (which would allow me to retain satellite radio, AM/FM tuner, etc.) or not, but I don't need to the way I'm doing it.

I used a Behringer UCA222, which is essentially a USB mixer which gives me a set of RCA outs, an Optical out and a headphone jack out. I'm using an Anker 4.8A car charger, an OTG USB Y cable, and an Amazon 4 port USB hub. This will all be feeding into my Audison Bit One via the optical out. 

I don't know if this setup will work with the Surface, tho. It should, but I'm no expert. 

The down side is if I don't retain a HU of some sort, I lose my tuners...AM/FM/satellite. Not a huge deal, except I listen to a lot of baseball and football games while commuting, and they usually get blacked out online, so I can't stream the station's website feed. I could do the satellite radio app, but it sucks and drops signal when standing still. 

But, anyway, I figured other people might stop in here to see this install and the previous tablet install, and this might help.

Jay


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## Bankrupt

I really want to do the spare tire IB setup so I think I might just cut the hole, then I don't have a choice! ha ha ha
I think it would be super easy to interface everything with bluetooth in the fusion, just looking for ideas on hardwiring. I do plan to use a bluetooth DSP though!
I'm trying to mold the dash piece so when the tablet is absent from the dock all you see is a 1/4" high bar. (with magnets in it) So everything would be "stock." Click, click, in go's the tablet (with a retainer under HVAC vent) and an 8" Navigation turns into a 12". I don't know how to integrate the backup camera to switch to the Tablet when it's docked, but play on the in dash 8" without the tablet, any ideas? Hardware or Software with bluetooth? 
Do you have any changes planned in your audio system anytime soon?


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## barracuda777

Really nice build, with a tons of work!

I also try to put a pair of BGneo8s in my car and just dismissed. Too much phase conflicts in my car (Honda Accord 08); even with DSP-Z8 tuning possibilities.
I just keep my Neo3PDRW as tweeters, ones are just amazing in details.

Did you have difficulties when you tuned your config with Neo8s, like center focus?


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## BowDown

Can't say I have with just the neo8's. When I had the neo3's in there too my imaging was a bit large. 

Past 2 iasca finals I have scored 48 out if 50 in imaging. Have it dialed in. Lol.


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## BowDown

Anyone following this thread that wishes to continue on my next installation journey you can find it here! http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...on-sq-installation-thread-v2-0-audiofrog.html


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## derickveliz

Thanks for letting us know!
we love it!
D.


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## sc1984

Has anyone tried using just using a single unit? I am looking at using a AMT uppermidrange/tweeter. Don't really have the room for a midrange up high in the doors or on dash. Is this possible while maintaining quality and staging? Or is this unrealistic without using a supertweeter for higher frequencies on axis?


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## BigFishK5

Sweet, build. Now ... to get my wife to let me tear her 2012 fusion apart.


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## BowDown

Coming soon...
















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