# 10 more small fullrange drivers reviewed for center channel use



## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

In this thread I had previously tried a bunch of extended range drivers:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...er-full-range-drivers-center-channel-use.html

I am using my favorite driver from that group as a standard comparison, that is the Vifa TC9FD-18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer

Once again, I tried out all of the below "extended range" drivers from Parts Express. My goal was to see if I could find a single 3.5" inch or smaller single driver that would work as a center channel with the JBL MS-8. This means I don't need anything to play under 200HZ. I'm guessing with the MS8 there is going to be more interest in small form center channel speakers among the diyma crowd.

My testing was pretty unscientific. This time I ran my SACD player into my old school Adcom GTP400 preamp set to mono mode which combines L+R signal. I then ran this to an Perreaux 150watt/channel amp. At first I listened to the drivers full range. I then used a Behringer CX3400 crossover to run the drivers bandpass and then teamed them up with a Vifa 1" fabric dome tweeter also using the crossover. Every driver that I preferred in full range was also preferred in bandpass and when run with a tweeter.

I did measurements...on absolutely nothing. I didn't do any level matching (except when pairing with the tweeter). I adjusted the volume with each driver as I wanted to get an I idea of how things sounded at low, medium, and high level...whatever my ear decided this was.

I listened to several tracks on Tracy Chapman self titled debut, Eric Clapton Slowhand, Dire Straights(Mark Knopfler) Brother in Arms, and this time I listened to U2 Joshua Tree. The Clapton and Dire Straights were SACD's, which on my home systems clearly outperform Redbook CD's...it wasn't close to relevant here

This list is in order of listening:

Vifa/Peerless TC08SD69-08 3-1/2" Shielded Midbass Driver ($15)- Alright. Played low well. A bit fatiguing after a while. At first seemed more detailed than the reference but then with replay of reference started to sound colored/overly bright. 

MAX Fidelity DA 3.5 3" Poly Cone Woofer 6 Ohm ($8)- Wow, almost broke my eardrums. High frequencies sounded strident. Couldn't play at even moderate levels because of this. Actually played down low better than most others. Not a full range driver due to high frequency coloration. Still sounded bad once crossed over and paired with tweeter.

Bravox WFR-03MX01 3.5" Poly Cone Woofer 6 Ohm ($7)- Wow. I had to double check because I started listening and then went to cross reference the speakers markings with the invoice. I couldn't believe this was a 7 dollar driver. It was a little bright, but not too irritating. Didn't have a lot of "punch" but once again, sounded smooth down low. Tried valiantly to play the really deep rumbling on a track on Dire Straights, and managed to do so without distorting even at high volume. I found myself turning the volume up louder and louder, and bopping my head on all the CD's listened to. In the end still fell a bit short of the Vifa TC9FD-18-08, which was a bit more neutral at higher frequencies and once paired with a tweeter had less midrange coloration as well.

HiVi B3N 3" Aluminum Driver Round Frame($11) - this driver gets good press but I was pretty underwhelmed. It was muddy down lown, and strident at high frequencies. Mediocre power handling. So-so overall.

HiVi M3N 3" Aluminum/Magnesium Midbass ($15)- Like the above but a bit smoother at high frequencies.

Dayton RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm ($20)- Dayton tricked me because this is actually a 2" cone, but Dayton size naming uses the flange measurement. I thought I was getting the RS100. Anyhow, my wife commented-"that sounds 'tinny' " as in strident. It actually was pretty smooth, but the complete lack of low end gave it the perception of being too bright, and it was very limited in power handling. Really well built. This would be my choice if I truly had limited room to work with for a center channel.

Tang Band W3-1723SA 3" Coaxial Midrange ($20)- Yikes, it is SHOUTING at me. Very colored, midrange driver and the tweeter is really terrible. Tried lots of different crossover points and level setting. The tweeter in the throat of the voice coil is probably part of the problem. Skip it.

Z35MK 4 OHM, Miller & Kreisel Surround 3.5" ($15 at deepsurplus.com)-I had high hopes for this driver until I opened the box. Pretty cheap and light with plastic frame, but it was made in Denmark. Clearly had a number of peaks and valleys in the midrange with now low or high frequency extension. Not a good deal.

8 ohm Miller and Kreisel 3.5" coaxial with 1/2 inch fabric dome tweeter ($5 at deepsurplus.com)- This is the best bargain I've ever found. It is a nice sounding midrange driver that would place in my top 3 overall when run full range. Once crossed over and run with the tweeter, it is really quite nice. The tweeter is a bit bright, but not ridiculous. Good power handling. Has a bucking magnet, and I'm going to try to remove it. The best full range $5 speaker I've ever heard. 2 weeks ago they had hundreds of them, now I found the page on the sight, but couldn't order them. I was going to pick up a couple more just for fun.

Peerless 830881 4" nomex midrange ($46 at solen, they have a bunch currently in stock)- This is by far the biggest driver, and of course has better relative bass response. Not a full range driver, but pairs up nicely with a tweeter when crossed around 2500Hz. Very, very well made. Deserves the good reviews it has received. Sounds just a fraction better and is more dynamic than the Vifa TC9FD-18-08.

Next on my testing regimen are the Peerless 830986 3" Full Range Woofer, Dayton RS100 3 inch (called 4") woofer, and finally the Fountek FR88ex and FR89ex 3" woofers.

Right now the Peerless 830986 3" Full Range Woofer is winning this comparison- for only $14, I'm pretty impressed. Each time I think another driver is better, I listen to this again and figure out it is really only coloration that at first sounds better then becomes fatiguing.

Regards,
Justin


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Good reviews again! I pulled the trigger on that Vifa TG9FD-10-04 this week based on your other reviews.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Looking forward to your impression of the Founteks. Also you may want to consider evaluating the Faital Pro 3FE20: http://www.faitalpro.com/img/products/schede/FES/3FE20/3FE20_datasheet.pdf


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## VaVroom1 (Dec 2, 2005)

A Tang Band W3-1364SA in the mix will complete the review hehe


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> Looking forward to your impression of the Founteks. Also you may want to consider evaluating the Faital Pro 3FE20: http://www.faitalpro.com/img/products/schede/FES/3FE20/3FE20_datasheet.pdf


The Faital Pro 3FE20 is really interesting due to the 1.6 inch depth. Can it be found anywhere but US speaker?

Regards,
Justin


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

chithead said:


> Good reviews again! I pulled the trigger on that Vifa TG9FD-10-04 this week based on your other reviews.



I'd like to hear how the Vifa works for you. Hopefully you like it.

Regards,
Justin


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

VaVroom1 said:


> A Tang Band W3-1364SA in the mix will complete the review hehe


I actually skipped that one because it isn't supposed to play well in an infinite baffle. Also, every tang band I've listened to has sounded like poo, granted, I haven't listened to the higher end stuff.

Regards,
Justin


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah, the Failtal Pro is pretty much identical in dimensions to the Fountek FR88EX, except for the square frame.

I don't know of any other online store than US Speaker, and I have never dealt with them. But it looks like Patrick Bateman who is a guru and a regular on this board has bought 4 of them. Maybe check where he bought them from, or see if he can loan you one for a while?

-Jason



wadejg said:


> The Faital Pro 3FE20 is really interesting due to the 1.6 inch depth. Can it be found anywhere but US speaker?
> 
> Regards,
> Justin


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

I just called deepsurplus.com and the website was screwed up. The website was screwed up, the fixed it and they still have the 3.5" coaxial (neodymium magnet on both drivers) for only $5. They are just a killer deal and would make a great center channel when used with a crossover.

Model #A10CC-07 Coaxial Speaker, Vifa<font color="red">$5.00 Special Price

Regards,
Justin


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> Yeah, the Failtal Pro is pretty much identical in dimensions to the Fountek FR88EX, except for the square frame.
> 
> I don't know of any other online store than US Speaker, and I have never dealt with them. But it looks like Patrick Bateman who is a guru and a regular on this board has bought 4 of them. Maybe check where he bought them from, or see if he can loan you one for a while?
> 
> -Jason


I should be getting the other Faital in tomorrow, & hopefully have them in in a couple of weeks.
Are you going to try some out Jason?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah, I am thinking about giving them a shot. I have been super busy so was hoping somebody else would review first so I'd have a reason NOT to buy them if some major flaw was found. If I do end up getting them, I'll feel compelled to post a review/comparison with the FR88EX.




fish said:


> I should be getting the other Faital in tomorrow, & hopefully have them in in a couple of weeks.
> Are you going to try some out Jason?


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Do you think we can have a battle of the winners at the end? TG9, Peerless 830986 and what ever else wins your next test?

Thank you!


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> Yeah, I am thinking about giving them a shot. I have been super busy so was hoping somebody else would review first so I'd have a reason NOT to buy them if some major flaw was found. If I do end up getting them, I'll feel compelled to post a review/comparison with the FR88EX.


CraigE has them in his car. I sent him a PM about them, said he likes them. Has them high passed @200hz, which for his listening habits works out good.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks man. I pinged him with some more questions.
I did some tuning today and will post some notes in my build log thread so not to hijack the OP's thread.



fish said:


> CraigE has them in his car. I sent him a PM about them, said he likes them. Has them high passed @200hz, which for his listening habits works out good.


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

Just received my Faital Pro 3FE20. The shipping from US speaker was 1/3 the total cost, too bad, but oh well. It is an interesting looking speaker. Made in Italy. The quality control is a bit lacking as one of the pieces on the motor is not perfectly centered (I can't tell if it is the magnet or metal). I'll see how it sounds shortly.

Regards,


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## CraigE (Jun 10, 2008)

I was using the Peerless 3" (830986) for midrange duty, and they were impressive. They didn't stand out, just blended right in, with the Dyn MB and tweeter.
Shortly after replacing the above with the Faitals, I received and installed 2 way passive x-overs to go between mids and tweeters. There were caps on the tweeters previously.
So I'm not comparing them on a level playing field.
Now that the Faitals have some break in time,... .
I'm interested to see what you guys think of them.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

wadejg said:


> I'd like to hear how the Vifa works for you. Hopefully you like it.
> 
> Regards,
> Justin


Just from my initial listening impressions, it is going to work perfectly. I can't believe how much it pulled the bass guitar and kickdrums right to the center of the dash. I love it!!!


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Hey Daniel, I also pulled the trigger on these Vifas. I am undecided about trying the Faital Pros as I want to hear what others say about whether they can dig any deeper than the Founteks.

Are you using this for a center channel or stereo setup?




chithead said:


> Just from my initial listening impressions, it is going to work perfectly. I can't believe how much it pulled the bass guitar and kickdrums right to the center of the dash. I love it!!!


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

any chance you are gonna try the Tang Band 1337 4" mids?


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

jsun_g said:


> Are you using this for a center channel or stereo setup?


It's strictly to replace the factory center channel. But wow does it make a huge difference in overall sound.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Ok now I am getting excited to try them out. I'm tossing them on a home stereo overnight to break them in once they are delivered.



chithead said:


> It's strictly to replace the factory center channel. But wow does it make a huge difference in overall sound.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I got 2 of the glass-fibre cone version in today and they do have some lower midrange and even dare I say midbass (if you cup your hands around the flange) that belies their size. I don't like the plastic basket though; it is not sturdy at all and I can visualize it deforming the speaker alignment if care is not taken when mounting to a baffle. They don't have the upper extension or strong basket of the Founteks, but their output in the lower registers may win me over yet. I hope to try them in my A-pillars soon.



chithead said:


> It's strictly to replace the factory center channel. But wow does it make a huge difference in overall sound.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

If you really want a laugh, try them in a plastic cup.

I just popped a 16 oz. plastic cup into my dash tonight (it fit right in the factory dash opening) and pow! 

Crystal clear sound...

I am HOOKED on these things!


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

I tried the Faital Pros. I was underwhelmed. They were a bit grating at higher frequencies. However, they could play LOUD without complete cone breakup. They would strain but they absolutely refused to bottom out. I'm guessing it is part of the "Pro" ability in the title.

Now I've got the glass cone version of the VIFA to listen to compare to the paper cone version.

Regards,
Justin


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Looking forward to your review of it... 
Any thoughts about the CSS WR125s?


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

wadejg said:


> I tried the Faital Pros. I was underwhelmed. They were a bit grating at higher frequencies. However, they could play LOUD without complete cone breakup. They would strain but they absolutely refused to bottom out. I'm guessing it is part of the "Pro" ability in the title.
> 
> Now I've got the glass cone version of the VIFA to listen to compare to the paper cone version.
> 
> ...


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## rugdnit (Dec 24, 2007)

vactor said:


> any chance you are gonna try the Tang Band 1337 4" mids?


I would also like to hear from someone who has run the titanium tang band.


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

fish said:


> wadejg said:
> 
> 
> > I tried the Faital Pros. I was underwhelmed. They were a bit grating at higher frequencies. However, they could play LOUD without complete cone breakup. They would strain but they absolutely refused to bottom out. I'm guessing it is part of the "Pro" ability in the title.
> ...


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

The opening post states that the center in the MS-8 does not need to play lower that 200 Hz. I do not want to dig through that long MS-8 thread but I would swear Andy said you wanted center to play as close to the L/R midbass as possible. I probably missed something else that explains why 200 Hz is OK. 

So why 200 Hz for a center?


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## wadejg (Apr 20, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> The opening post states that the center in the MS-8 does not need to play lower that 200 Hz. I do not want to dig through that long MS-8 thread but I would swear Andy said you wanted center to play as close to the L/R midbass as possible. I probably missed something else that explains why 200 Hz is OK.
> 
> So why 200 Hz for a center?


Not sure. If I was to guess it is because of driver size limitations and vibration limitations of a center channel. I would also guess the Logic 7 steering just doesn't put much low frequency info into the center channel.

Regards,
Justin


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> The opening post states that the center in the MS-8 does not need to play lower that 200 Hz. I do not want to dig through that long MS-8 thread but I would swear Andy said you wanted center to play as close to the L/R midbass as possible. I probably missed something else that explains why 200 Hz is OK.
> 
> So why 200 Hz for a center?


Post #26,#29.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It will put as much into that you let it. My center is crossed at 65 or 70 hertz. A center of any sort will be better than no center...but the lower you can play the center the better.



wadejg said:


> Not sure. If I was to guess it is because of driver size limitations and vibration limitations of a center channel. I would also guess the Logic 7 steering just doesn't put much low frequency info into the center channel.
> 
> Regards,
> Justin


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Hey Justin, any updates on your testing? I am interested in seeing your thoughts specifically on the Fountek FR88EX and TG9 since I have both.


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

CraigE said:


> I was using the Peerless 3" (830986) for midrange duty, and they were impressive. They didn't stand out, just blended right in, with the Dyn MB and tweeter.
> Shortly after replacing the above with the Faitals, I received and installed 2 way passive x-overs to go between mids and tweeters. There were caps on the tweeters previously.
> So I'm not comparing them on a level playing field.
> Now that the Faitals have some break in time,... .
> I'm interested to see what you guys think of them.


Very nice sounding little drivers... but they don't have enought guts for midrange duty.
Today I installed and compare the Peerless and the Founteks FR 89 and the later have much more output capabilities. And... they sound very good.

Car and home are different beasts. The noise floor at the car is a killer.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmmm... so the Fountek FR89 is impressive?


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## dvcrogers (May 31, 2007)

My Fr88EX's came in yesterday. Man they are small. I can't wait to try them out.


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## benhinkle711 (Jun 30, 2009)

wadejg said:


> 8 ohm Miller and Kreisel 3.5" coaxial with 1/2 inch fabric dome tweeter ($5 at deepsurplus.com)- This is the best bargain I've ever found. It is a nice sounding midrange driver that would place in my top 3 overall when run full range. Once crossed over and run with the tweeter, it is really quite nice. The tweeter is a bit bright, but not ridiculous. Good power handling. Has a bucking magnet, and I'm going to try to remove it. The best full range $5 speaker I've ever heard. 2 weeks ago they had hundreds of them, now I found the page on the sight, but couldn't order them. I was going to pick up a couple more just for fun.


Also available here:

Speaker Stuff


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Most of these small drivers are going to sound lacking guts if installed IB. They dont have enough cone area and xmax to produce the lower vocal range with strength. I think you should check out the TC9/TG9/FR89EX/W3-1364SA in small sealed enclosures and you'll really see what you're missing. Grab a piece of 3" PVC end and end cap and set them right on the center of the dash and test. World of difference.

Oh and in reference to the earlier question about the W4-1337 titanium- yes they are very nice. They share the exact same frmae and motor as the W4 bamboo but the cone material makes for better top end resolution and a bit better sensitivity to my ears. That said, I still prefer the more natural sound of the bamboo/paper cone. But they are a terrific speaker for sure.


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## jagosaurus (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm currently using two RS75s in the dash as midranges, any advice on xover points? Currently 500 - 3000 hz, seas neo taking over after 3k.


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

Great reviews! I might have to try a few of these myself while I wait for my Trinities.


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