# new pioneer DEH - 80PRS sounds terrible



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

I just hooked up my new pioneer DEH - 80PRS in a Toyota truck and it makes music sound conjested and cloudy. I bought it because it was marketed as an audiophile cd player but it sounds pretty bad. Anyone else have this issue with theirs? Are there any better sounding cd players available anymore?

Where are the old school good sq players?!


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

audiophile9 said:


> I just hooked up my new pioneer DEH - 80PRS in a Toyota truck and it makes music sound conjested and cloudy. I bought it because it was marketed as an audiophile cd player but it sounds pretty bad. Anyone else have this issue with theirs? Are there any better sounding cd players available anymore?
> 
> Where are the old school good sq players?!


I looked into that player, was going to use one, and most people find the sound pretty good (9/10 or so).

Whats your set up like?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Also did you configure the crossover network correctly?


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## beef316 (Dec 12, 2006)

This is a good unit. You must have some settings wrong.

Tapatalk owns my productivity.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

WestCo said:


> Also did you configure the crossover network correctly?


I'm using solobaric 8s. Rockford 200 amps. And jl c5 mids n highs. And using crossovers in the amps. I'm just using the 2 channel out of the pioneer right after I turned it on. I know the conjested sound is coming from the pioneer because I pulled the rca's off of it and connected my pioneer elite home player through my denon prepro and it sounds awesome. 

So just saying this cd player has bad sound to my ear. Unless there is something I'm missing?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

audiophile9 said:


> I'm using solobaric 8s. Rockford 200 amps. And jl c5 mids n highs. And using crossovers in the amps. I'm just using the 2 channel out of the pioneer right after I turned it on. I know the conjested sound is coming from the pioneer because I pulled the rca's off of it and connected my pioneer elite home player through my denon prepro and it sounds awesome.
> 
> So just saying this cd player has bad sound to my ear. Unless there is something I'm missing?


Did you configure the deck's crossover network correctly?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

It is not going to sound good without configuring the deck...


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

What needs setup? I'm not using the eq. Time delay or crossovers right now. The signal coming from the 2 channel front outputs is not clean. Really disappointed with the poor sq


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

What was you previous HU? Did you bother to reset your gains to the new preout voltage? The deck itself has a network mode and a normal mode. Which is your set to. Also it has seperate left and right 16 band eq's that are usable in either mode. 

Try playing around with it for a bit before you condem it.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Also are you really going to go into other threads about these HU's and just state you don't like without telling people that you haven't checked settings or adjusted amps or anything else?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

My gut is telling me its the gains or a setting that needs to be changed. These new decks are a lot more like computers than traditional stereo's. It takes some work to make them sound their best... 

There is always the possibility that you got one that has a defect as well. I have yet to hear from anyone that really thinks the sound out of the 80prs is poor by any stretch.

Pioneer also has some decient tech support, it's at least worth checking out.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

07azhhr said:


> Also are you really going to go into other threads about these HU's and just state you don't like without telling people that you haven't checked settings or adjusted amps or anything else?


What settings exactly do you belive need adjusted?
I never had a head unit that needed "Adjusting" to get good SQ. Ever. It either has it or it doesnt. Unless head units today are much different than old ones from the 80s and early 90s??? I dont really know.

The system gains were setup to accomodate this unit. Amps do not need "Adjusted" either. It's just power. As long as the input and output gains are setup so there's no clipping its fine. I also should not have try to EQ good SQ into a bad signal thats coming right from this units RCA level. EQs are for dealing with the sound coming from speakers reacting with the vehicle's interior.

Just so you know I also tried my friends brand new Pioneer double DIN DVD player and it also had a similar conjested cloudy sound. My bench test of the Elite going through the Denon and into the RCA's completey removed the cloudy conjested sound. Hence I am nearly certain its the head unit. Unless you can prove it otherwise?


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

WestCo said:


> My gut is telling me its the gains or a setting that needs to be changed. These new decks are a lot more like computers than traditional stereo's. It takes some work to make them sound their best...
> 
> There is always the possibility that you got one that has a defect as well. I have yet to hear from anyone that really thinks the sound out of the 80prs is poor by any stretch.
> 
> Pioneer also has some decient tech support, it's at least worth checking out.


Thanks. I have called Pioneer about it but have been unable to get in touch with anyone there that seems to have a solid understaning of my issue of this thing having poor sound, but I will try again before I dump it.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm not sure about what network mode or normal mode means? All previous head units I had just sounded good right out of the box. What are the audio quality differences between network mode and normal mode?


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## billyboymr2 (May 16, 2011)

I'll tell you from experience man, new head units are no where near what the 80's and 90's decks were as far as configuring. Hooking up your home stereo just means that your home stereo is set up properly, hooking up your friends DVD head unit and having the same sound leads me to believe that it's a setting. My 880PRS sounded like crap until I went in and configured it and changed the settings. The fact that you don't know about network mode would lead me to believe that you haven't read the instructions thoroughly enough. Read the instructions, set it up properly, and you should have a much better sound. These units are not like they used to be, there is some configuration necessary to get them sounding correct.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Tape a sudafed to the next CD you put in.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> Tape a sudafed to the next CD you put in.


I have found Benadryl to work better, YMMV.


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## kurupt1972 (Feb 13, 2008)

I think you have a bad one. I will gladly take that piece of crap off of your hands. how much you want for it???


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

kurupt1972 said:


> I think you have a bad one. I will gladly take that piece of crap off of your hands. how much you want for it???


I will let you know after I talk to Pioneer tomorrow. It's brand new and in perfect cosmetic condition.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

well if it takes this much work to get it to sound good I dont know if I would want one.

I am also used to just installing the deck and making a few adjustments. cant say I have had a deck that sounded "bad" out of the box.

I dont know what "cloudy and congested" means though in this situation. 

at least the OP has some one with similar experience that may make this normal for this deck meaning the deck doesnt automatically sound good till you tweak it


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

<~~Throws a bone......

By telling you to "check the settings" or "reading the manual" people are telling you to go through the menu and make sure that nothing is on that shouldn't be (ie mp3 enhancer super duper retorz). Not to go in there and rewrite software filter code.

Much like what the tech on the phone is going to have you do, except you can do the job in 5 minutes instead of 1 hour on the phone.

After that, if you still have such an obvious problem with the sound then you know its not a deck for you.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

Spoke with pioneer yesterday and tried to get them to understand the problem. They reccomended I take it to best buy and let them work on it. Haha. Pathetic customer support.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

It's very hard to diagnose problems over the phone. Even harder than over the forum. None of us have been able to tell you what's wrong either.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

So just a recap from reading this Cluster [email protected])* of a thread......Several people have already told you to check the network/normal mode (99% likely hood this is the issue) But you, rather then look into what it is, you just ***** about your old deck not having one switches like that? Get out your manual, READ, and fix! Or actually listen to the information you supposedly were asking for. Poor customer service? Really? They clearly dont have a clue what your talking (because it doesnt sound like you do) about and your clearly not listening to anyone so thats why they want to send you somewhere....That way they can take YOU out of the situation so a remedy can be had. 
Now.....DID you or DID you NOT check the settings! Do a little research before you purchase something, do a lot of reading when you actually do, and you will likely be a lot happier with your purchase. 
Sorry, this is just painful to read.....wishing I didnt!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> So just a recap from reading this Cluster [email protected])* of a thread......Several people have already told you to check the network/normal mode (99% likely hood this is the issue) But you, rather then look into what it is, you just ***** about your old deck not having one switches like that? Get out your manual, READ, and fix! Or actually listen to the information you supposedly were asking for. Poor customer service? Really? They clearly dont have a clue what your talking (because it doesnt sound like you do) about and your clearly not listening to anyone so thats why they want to send you somewhere....That way they can take YOU out of the situation so a remedy can be had.
> Now.....DID you or DID you NOT check the settings! Do a little research before you purchase something, do a lot of reading when you actually do, and you will likely be a lot happier with your purchase.
> Sorry, this is just painful to read.....wishing I didnt!



lol...justin....is it worse than a soup sandwich? 


so guys what I am getting from this thread other than the OP not checking what is mentioned, is that these decks dont sound that good until you change some stuff?


I just want to make that clear for the next buyer who might buy the deck and not have had chance to mess with settings and initially think it sounds like poop.

I am just suprised it would sound "bad" even without adjustments .


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> So just a recap from reading this Cluster [email protected])* of a thread......Several people have already told you to check the network/normal mode (99% likely hood this is the issue) But you, rather then look into what it is, you just ***** about your old deck not having one switches like that? Get out your manual, READ, and fix! Or actually listen to the information you supposedly were asking for. Poor customer service? Really? They clearly dont have a clue what your talking (because it doesnt sound like you do) about and your clearly not listening to anyone so thats why they want to send you somewhere....That way they can take YOU out of the situation so a remedy can be had.
> Now.....DID you or DID you NOT check the settings! Do a little research before you purchase something, do a lot of reading when you actually do, and you will likely be a lot happier with your purchase.
> Sorry, this is just painful to read.....wishing I didnt!


You sound like a miserable SOB. feel free to not comment on the thread then, since you dont know whats wrong either. bye.

BTW; When I talked to Pioneer I tried network and normal mode, neither fixed the problem.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

What did Best Buy say?


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## kurupt1972 (Feb 13, 2008)

Just sell it and be done with it. Ill give you $100 for it. Lol

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

best buy doesnt even sell that unit..what can they do ..I hate best buy anyhow.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

JAX said:


> best buy doesnt even sell that unit..what can they do ..I hate best buy anyhow.


haha...exactly. Best buy is a joke, would never go there for anything. bunch of low end trash


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

The installers at Best Buy may still be able to assist you. If not Best Buy, you can take it somewhere else. Even if they don't sell the unit, they can troubleshoot the problem.

Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous, but it appears that you're not really interested in solving the problem. It seems you just want to conclude that this is a "bad SQ" unit.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

MarkZ said:


> The installers at Best Buy may still be able to assist you. If not Best Buy, you can take it somewhere else. Even if they don't sell the unit, they can troubleshoot the problem.
> 
> Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous, but it appears that you're not really interested in solving the problem. It seems you just want to conclude that this is a "bad SQ" unit.


you're wrong, I'm still working on it and consluting with Experts ...will update when I find out what the problem is, ....if I figure it out


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

That's encouraging. I look forward to your update!


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

MarkZ said:


> That's encouraging. I look forward to your update!


I have a call in with Rockford, could be an issue with my punch 200


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I'll bet you one Shrute buck it's your non-blind evaluation of the unit. And there is nothing wrong with evaluating your gear that way. But since you are here looking for the why, then that is now the very likely reason.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Before everyone starts assuming the 80prs sounds bad...
There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with this units design. If there's a legitimate problem then it's either a faulty unit or user error. Head to head with numerous units and in my car, it performs just as well as many others. It's not built like a great unit but sonically there's no serious issues to be concerned of. 

Period.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

audiophile9 said:


> What needs setup? I'm not using the eq. Time delay or crossovers right now. The signal coming from the 2 channel front outputs is not clean. Really disappointed with the poor sq


Operators error/inexperience

_


audiophile9 said:



What settings exactly do you belive need adjusted?

Click to expand...

_


audiophile9 said:


> I never had a head unit that needed "Adjusting" to get good SQ. Ever. It either has it or it doesnt. Unless head units today are much different than old ones from the 80s and early 90s??? I dont really know.
> 
> The system gains were setup to accomodate this unit. Amps do not need "Adjusted" either. It's just power. As long as the input and output gains are setup so there's no clipping its fine. I also should not have try to EQ good SQ into a bad signal thats coming right from this units RCA level. EQs are for dealing with the sound coming from speakers reacting with the vehicle's interior.
> 
> Just so you know I also tried my friends brand new Pioneer double DIN DVD player and it also had a similar conjested cloudy sound. My bench test of the Elite going through the Denon and into the RCA's completey removed the cloudy conjested sound. Hence I am nearly certain its the head unit. Unless you can prove it otherwise?


*Really??? The owners manual is your best friend*



audiophile9 said:


> Spoke with pioneer yesterday and tried to get them to understand the problem. They reccomended I take it to best buy and let them work on it. Haha. Pathetic customer support.


*Read the owners manual it is your best friend*



audiophile9 said:


> You sound like a miserable SOB. feel free to not comment on the thread then, since you dont know whats wrong either. bye.
> BTW; When I talked to Pioneer I tried network and normal mode, neither fixed the problem.


*Do you expect to get help with this attitude??*


With everything stated above. It would be wise for you to start with the owners manual. Paying close attention to pages 5 & 19. Page 19 forward on has the fine details of setting up the signals to be sent to the amplifier. The fact that you even post this in the wrong section *"Bikinpunks Product Review Forum", * tells us you dont know what you are doing. Is your name "Bikinpunks"?? This is not a plug & play unit. It requires setting up from the moment it is first power up to be used. Same to be said about your freinds unit.

-


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

He's an audiophile, therefore he knows.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

audiophile9 said:


> What needs setup? I'm not using the eq. Time delay or crossovers right now. The signal coming from the 2 channel front outputs is not clean. Really disappointed with the poor sq


The head unit gives you

* Active front stage capability in network mode (in network mode, you unhook the tweeters and woofers from their crossover box and use head unit's digital crossover after it is tuned correctly)
* 16 band equalizer
* Time alignment
* Optional automatic calibration with a micrphone for the above.
* Set of an RCA input so you can hook up a laptop RTA setup

This is the principal draw for this head unit. If you don't use any of this, then a deck priced half of this Pioneer's price would suffice.

In any case, my unit did not seem to sound congested and clouded. I suspect there could be an issue in your setup. Check the amplifier setup. If you use the head unit crossover, then don't use the amplifier crossovers. If you don't use the internal amplifier, there is a setting to turn it off. Set gains on the external amplifier correctly so the amplifier gets higher voltage on its input. Also go through ALL settings and make sure that nothing funny is turned on by default. Select "Custom" equalizer curve, and make sure it is flat. Set Digital ATT (digital attenuation) to low in the initial settings. If none of this helps, I suggest to consult the manual on how to run the automaic tune for time alignment and EQ. Also, you can switch the head unit into network mode for an active front stage (this should really be done if you want the best SQ) and run auto tune this way. If you don't have an extra amp channel for tweeters, hook them up to head unit's internal amplifier.

I am surprised you got good SQ in the past without any tuning. One of requirements for a good SQ is to have a good imaging. You can't get this in a car without time alignment and without a center channel speaker if the other speakers are in standard locations. Also, the physical characteristics of your car will almost certainly do something to a speaker frequency response, so the same speaker will not sound the same as exactly the same speaker in a different car. Hence there is a need to adjust equalizer, gains, crossover slopes, etc. A lot of this requires experience. I suggest you flip through the manual and find out how to access those features. If nothing works, use auto tune feature.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

JAX said:


> lol...justin....is it worse than a soup sandwich?
> 
> 
> so guys what I am getting from this thread other than the OP not checking what is mentioned, is that these decks dont sound that good until you change some stuff?
> ...


HAHAHAHA, you remember the soup sandwitch line huh? LOL!!!! Its getting there fast!

I dont find them to not sound good in "normal" mode or what ever people wish to call it....... being just a simple deck......In fact I would consider it a little better then average....at least on par? Add the features? for the $$$ WIN in my book......assuming your willing to educate yourself on the actual unit instead of pounding sand hoping the deck re-engineers itself to work how you want rather then understand before its put in! If thats what someone wants.....go get a nice old DRX9255......Perfect! or a nice Nak....cd400 or something? 

Could it be an isolated issue with this particular deck? Of course! Anything can and will happen....****, how many of these things are out there? Law of averages says its going to happen! Based on the facts presented (more so those left out) I strongly doubt its electrical......I'm leaning ignorance personally......?

To many great things about the deck to poo poo it! Besides we all know it could be covered in leprechaun rainbow droppings and sound like heaven......you would sell it in a 3 days max


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

audiophile9 said:


> You sound like a miserable SOB. feel free to not comment on the thread then, since you dont know whats wrong either. bye.
> 
> BTW; When I talked to Pioneer I tried network and normal mode, neither fixed the problem.


Guilty as charged!

So why did you fail to mention the pioneer discussion about normal/network? Several people have and were mentioning that as an issue...... Would have made sense to mention that if you do in fact actually want help. Instead of asking in such a pissy manor why you need to change anything prior to listening (which again shows you did ZERO research into this prior to purchase and sadly after) you could have/should have asked about what things do and why? Wouldnt that help? Do you really want help? I'm being honest.....Re-read your thread and see what little info you have given in return to questions asked from people spending there time to help you? Then tell my I'm miserable.....I'll stick with you being ignorant at this point......willing to be subject to change! 
Not trying to be a dick but it really doesnt seem like you want help at all! Sounds like you just want to piss and moan from buyers remorse or the like. I could be wrong? I hope I'm wrong!


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

evo9 said:


> Operators error/inexperience
> 
> _
> *Really??? The owners manual is your best friend*
> ...


_
I have read the manual front to back. Also there is nothing in the manual trouble shooting section about objectionable sound...Cloudy...conjested sound like I'm describing, Hence is why talking to Industy people on the phone about now because its is easier than describing here in this forum where some here just dont get it and just want to bash and ridicule me and make sarcastic remarks about me being an audiophile._


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

evo9 said:


> Operators error/inexperience
> 
> _
> *Really??? The owners manual is your best friend*
> ...


_
I have read the manual front to back. Also there is nothing in the manual trouble shooting section about objectionable sound...Cloudy...conjested sound like I'm describing, Hence is why talking to Industry people on the phone about it now because its is easier than describing here in this forum where some here just dont get it and just want to bash and ridicule me and make sarcastic remarks about me being an audiophile._


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

bassfromspace said:


> He's an audiophile, therefore he knows.


Thanks for the sarcasim. It doesnt help my problem at all.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> Before everyone starts assuming the 80prs sounds bad...
> There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with this units design. If there's a legitimate problem then it's either a faulty unit or user error. Head to head with numerous units and in my car, it performs just as well as many others. It's not built like a great unit but sonically there's no serious issues to be concerned of.
> 
> Period.


Thanks for that info. You may be correct on user error or faulty unit, however it could also be something else in my signal chain. As I said, still working on it...


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

audiophile9 said:


> Thanks for that info. You may be correct on user error or faulty unit, however it could also be something else in my signal chain. As I said, still working on it...


Ok, so to rule out user error what are settings? In detail, are you using it in network mode or standard?
If your in network and only have one set of rca's running to the back are you using the top,middle or bottom set?


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> Guilty as charged!
> 
> So why did you fail to mention the pioneer discussion about normal/network?
> 
> ...


comments above in bold text.

Yes. You're wrong.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

thomasluke said:


> Ok, so to rule out user error what are settings? In detail, are you using it in network mode or standard?
> If your in network and only have one set of rca's running to the back are you using the top,middle or bottom set?


I have tried both settings, and both give me the same bad sound.


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## SentraStyleEMW (May 16, 2008)

audiophile9 said:


> Thanks for that info. You may be correct on user error or faulty unit, however it could also be something else in my signal chain. As I said, still working on it...


I would say just the opposite. If the only change made was swapping the Pioneer unit for another source unit and the cloudiness/congested sound went away, you can be 99.9% sure the problem lies somewhere in the Pioneer unit. Whether it be a defective unit or a setting problem no one knows, as you haven't really gone into any detail as to what your settings are now or how you have your system set up.

When you are changing source units are you using the same cables or simply plugging a new cable straight from your home setup into the input of the amp(s)? It could be something as simple as a pinched RCA somewhere down the line causing this issue.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

for what its worth , my tech told me its the best unit hands down for the money you can get and then some. he would know he helped with the developement of the older units and alpines. 

what he really knows about the current model I dont know. if he told me he would have to kill me.

I just took his word for it cause he is "in the know"

if I had the funds to drop $300 on a deck it would be this one despite my dislike of the current build quality of most units out in the last few years. 

i prefer the 800/880 but that is just me. I wish they had made it more like that but with the extra stuff they didnt put in the 800/880. actually I wish they took out the cd portion and made it like the 880/800 and added BT and USB

for what I need though the eclipse cd5030 is fine. I dont need all the extra pizazz


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

without telling us exactly how the unit is configured, in each menu and submenu, as well as what is down the chain, it will be impossible to figure out what is going on. what you describe in my experience, USUALLY turns out to be some hidden setting that is activated from the factory that is a compressor / limiter or boost function in the unit that needs to be turned off if installed in a moderately high end system. from there, often people reverse polarity, use front and rear outputs improperly, or otherwise inadvertently changed a setting that should not have been. also, some units use + and - in the reverse of the expected (alpine sub boost comes to mind) etc. in my experience i have never had the misfortune to be able to declare that CD player A simply sounds vastly worse than CD player B, once all the settings have been adjusted properly. even $99 units from the 90's and such could be made to sound 'good' with a bit of setup. so, i think a methodical approach, front to back will provide some guidance for what you should do. but once again, the hidden settings (meaning the ones that are hard to find once the manufacturers of most headunits these days have their ergonomic head up their collective asses) are usually the culprit for things sounding bad (if they are related to the source unit).


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> HAHAHAHA, you remember the soup sandwitch line huh? LOL!!!! Its getting there fast!
> 
> I dont find them to not sound good in "normal" mode or what ever people wish to call it....... being just a simple deck......In fact I would consider it a little better then average....at least on par? Add the features? for the $$$ WIN in my book......assuming your willing to educate yourself on the actual unit instead of pounding sand hoping the deck re-engineers itself to work how you want rather then understand before its put in! If thats what someone wants.....go get a nice old DRX9255......Perfect! or a nice Nak....cd400 or something?
> 
> ...


Well I have had 4 Pioneers in the past and never had bad sound like this "Out of the box" so maybe ignorance...maybe not. Yes, If I cant resolve the issue I'm looking at a Nak 400 as a possible replacement


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

audiophile9 said:


> I have a call in with Rockford, could be an issue with my punch 200


so can you change that and see how it sounds then?


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

vactor said:


> without telling us exactly how the unit is configured, in each menu and submenu, as well as what is down the chain, it will be impossible to figure out what is going on. what you describe in my experience, USUALLY turns out to be some hidden setting that is activated from the factory that is a compressor / limiter or boost function in the unit that needs to be turned off if installed in a moderately high end system. from there, often people reverse polarity, use front and rear outputs improperly, or otherwise inadvertently changed a setting that should not have been. also, some units use + and - in the reverse of the expected (alpine sub boost comes to mind) etc. in my experience i have never had the misfortune to be able to declare that CD player A simply sounds vastly worse than CD player B, once all the settings have been adjusted properly. even $99 units from the 90's and such could be made to sound 'good' with a bit of setup. so, i think a methodical approach, front to back will provide some guidance for what you should do. but once again, the hidden settings (meaning the ones that are hard to find once the manufacturers of most headunits these days have their ergonomic head up their collective asses) are usually the culprit for things sounding bad (if they are related to the source unit).



Thanks, I agree 100%. Thats why I called Pioneer and they walked me through all of the menus and it didnt help. So they think I should pay best buy to try and fix it? Why wouldnt they say send the unit to us for evaluation? Patheitc support from them.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

JAX said:


> so can you change that and see how it sounds then?


Possibly yea, Trying to find another amp I can try


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

"What We Hear"


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## QWK11gt (Sep 22, 2012)

JAX said:


> lol...justin....is it worse than a soup sandwich?
> 
> 
> so guys what I am getting from this thread other than the OP not checking what is mentioned, is that these decks dont sound that good until you change some stuff?
> ...


The way I'm reading it, I could be wrong, is they believe he has his one set of rca's set up as mid range speakers giving a less than stellar(cloudly, congested) sound. O.P. thinks otherwise.  If this was a double din unit it's what would be in my car.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

audiophile9 said:


> I have tried both settings, and both give me the same bad sound.


Still no details, are you using on set of rcas?


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## QWK11gt (Sep 22, 2012)

t3sn4f2 said:


> "What We Hear"


Why, oh why didn't I take the Blue pill?

Wow


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

QWK11gt said:


> Why, oh why didn't I take the Blue pill?
> 
> Wow


Blue pill has a hefty entrance fee. How's that moonshine?


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm using 1 set of rca's out and not using crossover in the deck at all


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with the design of the 80PRS, it's audible transparent just like many other headunits out there. If there really is an audible difference when using two different headunits with the DSP bypassed, I'd say that the bad sounding one is faulty/bad somehow.

If I may ask, why buy an unit with a DSP if you're not using it? The DSP alone is a really big upgrade if you care for realistic sound in a car. Try it's auto tune and see how it sounds after that (not that I'm a fan of autoEQ)... Just sayin.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

check the EQ settings. i can't recall for sure, but it might have a curve enabled automatically. it seems like I had to set it to flat after I installed it the first time. 

just a thought...


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> There is nothing wrong with the design of the 80PRS, it's audible transparent just like many other headunits out there. If there really is an audible difference when using two different headunits with the DSP bypassed, I'd say that the bad sounding one is faulty/bad somehow.
> 
> If I may ask, why buy an unit with a DSP if you're not using it? The DSP alone is a really big upgrade if you care for realistic sound in a car. Try it's auto tune and see how it sounds after that (not that I'm a fan of autoEQ)... Just sayin.


 cause I bought it for other reasons like dual 16 band eq. And 5 volts out. I may use or try the dsp at some point, but I will not use it to mask another issue such as poor sound. I'm working on one issue at a time.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> check the EQ settings. i can't recall for sure, but it might have a curve enabled automatically. it seems like I had to set it to flat after I installed it the first time.
> 
> just a thought...


Thanks but I have the EQ flat now. Still sounds bad


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

well, get rid of it. you're not happy with it.

but, realistically, there's either a fault in the unit, you have it set up incorrectly, or you have a different set of preferences than anyone else here (speaking for the general population) is looking for.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

What frequency you have the HPF set at , on the line out you are using?


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> check the EQ settings. i can't recall for sure, but it might have a curve enabled automatically. it seems like I had to set it to flat after I installed it the first time.
> 
> just a thought...


if you were near the chicago area i'd come take a look and help figure out what's up. however, this ^ seems very likely. most new headuints have some of the options turned on as part of the factory setup. and DSP isn't there to mask anything; things like time alignment help make the best out of the compromises we need to make in order to put speakers in a car.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> well, get rid of it. you're not happy with it.
> 
> but, realistically, there's either a fault in the unit, you have it set up incorrectly, or you have a different set of preferences than anyone else here (speaking for the general population) is looking for.


 I thought I made it clear I would get rid of it if I determine its the head unit. As I have stated multiple times. I'm working on it. And its clear its either a faulty head unit or something not set right in it. Or integration into my system.


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

vactor said:


> if you were near the chicago area i'd come take a look and help figure out what's up. however, this ^ seems very likely. most new headuints have some of the options turned on as part of the factory setup. and DSP isn't there to mask anything; things like time alignment help make the best out of the compromises we need to make in order to put speakers in a car.


 dsp will alter the sound. I know what good sound is without dsp so why would I turn it on now if I know there is bad sound? That's what I mean as masking.


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## gtsdohcvvtli (Aug 17, 2011)

Post 5

You stated your running multiple amps. Set of components and 8's. 

Your using one set of pre outs for your whole system? Use the specific pre outs of the deck to your respective amps. Set all your amps to pass thru. Use the built in HP and LP filters of the pio. This way you'll actually being using the deck potential as it was designed for and maximize control along with the eq. If you have an out board EQ, eliminate it.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

gtsdohcvvtli said:


> Post 5
> 
> You stated your running multiple amps. Set of components and 8's.
> 
> Your using one set of pre outs for your whole system? Use the specific pre outs of the deck to your respective amps. Set all your amps to pass thru. Use the built in HP and LP filters of the pio. This way you'll actually being using the deck potential as it was designed for and maximize control along with the eq. If you have an out board EQ, eliminate it.


yep, that's what to do... or at least try...


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

gtsdohcvvtli said:


> Post 5
> 
> You stated your running multiple amps. Set of components and 8's.
> 
> Your using one set of pre outs for your whole system? Use the specific pre outs of the deck to your respective amps. Set all your amps to pass thru. Use the built in HP and LP filters of the pio. This way you'll actually being using the deck potential as it was designed for and maximize control along with the eq. If you have an out board EQ, eliminate it.


no. I Can't do that because I'm running an audio control epicenter which requires a full range signal in to work properly.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

audiophile9 said:


> no. I Can't do that because I'm running an audio control epicenter which requires a full range signal in to work properly.


Also as i said I one of the reasons I got this unit was because of the dual 16 band eq. So why would I use an external one? And I'm Using an external x over that's built-in the amps


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

audiophile9 said:


> no. I Can't do that because I'm running an audio control epicenter which requires a full range signal in to work properly.


1. Why are you running a epicenter? 

2. Why are you running your entire system through a epicenter?

3. Do you actually know what the epicenter does or is designed to do?

4. Which epicenter are you running?

You running an entire system through a epicenter should tell everyone what we need to know.

Suggestion if you must run the epicenter, your sub out RCA is the only thing that should be running through it IMO. Everything else should be running on its own set of RCA's. There is no need for a epicenter with a 80PRS or anything other than a SPL system IMO. Now days the SPL guys do not even run them anymore.

You are living in the old school days and new technology has surpassed most of the old school fixes.


----------



## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

*


audiophile9 said:



I'm using 1 set of rca's out and not using crossover in the deck at all

Click to expand...




audiophile9 said:



no. I Can't do that because I'm running an audio control epicenter which requires a full range signal in to work properly.

Click to expand...

*
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: FYI this is what an Epicenter does. 

*Features Of The Epicenter Concert Series
Here are some of the nifty features that are enclosed in your magical box:
• Bass Maximizertm Circuitry
• Dash mount control
• Bass restoration lighted display
• Parametric bass control
• PFM Subsonic Filter
• Balanced inputs
• Bass Output Control
What all this means is more bass. . . louder bass with speaker protection.*

Taken from the epicenter manual you did not read!


You connected one pair of RCA to a bass box to run a full system??? Another FYI........................ Once the hi frequency is removed by the epicenter the amplifier connot replace it, regardless of where you set the hi-pass on the amp. So now we know why your system sounds crappy. The best advice I can give you is to see a local installer. You may want to consider a simpler HU. This HU at this time is too advance for your knowledge level. No............ I am not being rude to you! But it took 3 pages to get the information needed to help you. As suspected from the beginning it was all operators error.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

evo9 said:


> *
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Lol never heard of those epicenters, what is it? Some kind of bass-only DSP? Seems to be pretty reduntant to use.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

1. Running an epicenter because it restores bass lost in the mastering of old cd's I listen to.
2. Because the epicenter must see a full range signal to operate properly. I know this from running them for many years and also from close consultation with audio control engineers.
3. Yes. See answers to #1 and #2.
4. I'm running the standard epicenter. Not the plus or the half din unit

I disagree with your opinion on not needing epicenter as it sounds you so not have requirements for one nor do you realize there isn't anything in the pioneer that will perform the function of what an epicenter does. Epicenters are for restoring lost bass in the recording process and sounds like you belive they are only for spl guys which they do work well for but really isn't what they were originally designed for if you do some research on them.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Why don't you just try the given options? 

People are trying to help you here...


----------



## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

audiophile9 said:


> Also as i said I one of the reasons I got this unit was because of the dual 16 band eq. So why would I use an external one? And I'm Using an external x over that's built-in the amps


Your epicenter is a eq.... Why would you use it?


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

evo9 said:


> *
> 
> *
> 
> ...


OMG. stop, you are clueless.


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

Woosey said:


> Why don't you just try the given options?
> 
> People are trying to help you here...


I dont know what you mean by options?

I was answering specific questions from another user here.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

audiophile9 said:


> 1. Running an epicenter because it restores bass lost in the mastering of old cd's I listen to.
> 2. Because the epicenter must see a full range signal to operate properly. I know this from running them for many years and also from close consultation with audio control engineers.
> 3. Yes. See answers to #1 and #2.
> 4. I'm running the standard epicenter. Not the plus or the half din unit
> ...



The epicenter is a bass eq!!! Or bass generator or whatever bass device you want to call it. Very 1990s thats the last time I used one of them. 

THE EPICENTER CONCERT SERIES SPECIFICATIONS
All specifications are measured at 14.4 VDC (standard automotive voltage).
As technology advances, AudioControl reserves the right to continuously change
our specifications, like our weather.
Maximum input level.................................................................................15 Vrms
Maximum output level.......................................................................... 13.5 Vpeak
Frequency response.............................................................. 10Hz-100kHz;+/-1dB
Total harmonic distortion............................................................................ 0.003%
Signal to Noise ratio................................................................................... - 130dB
Balanced input noise rejection.....................................................................> 60dB
Input Impedance......................................................................................10 Kohms
Output Impedance...................................................................................150 Ohms
Power supply........................................................................High headroom PWM
Power draw..................................................................................................150mA
Recommended fuse rating.............................................................................1 Amp
Size.....................................................................................8” W x 5.5” D x 1.2” H
Weight............................................................................................................1.7lbs
Country of origin.......................................................................................... U.S.A.


----------



## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Running more rca's from you hu and connect everything like it should be connected?


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm almost starting to think this is a useless conversation....


----------



## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

^^^^ Agree!


----------



## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

audiophile9 said:


> 1. Running an epicenter because it restores bass lost in the mastering of old cd's I listen to.
> 2. Because the epicenter must see a full range signal to operate properly. I know this from running them for many years and also from close consultation with audio control engineers.
> 3. Yes. See answers to #1 and #2.
> 4. I'm running the standard epicenter. Not the plus or the half din unit
> ...


Ok, I've read the manual a bit and concluded it's full range in and full range out so that shouldn't be the issue... What could be an issue is running from your " front line-out " which could be high-pass = no bass to begin with to restore, try to connect it to rear/mid... if you measure resistance between rca ring and hu chassis do you have approx. 0 ohm? maybe a faulty pico could be the problem..

my last $0.02


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

evo9 said:


> The epicenter is a bass eq!!! Or bass generator or whatever bass device you want to call it. Very 1990s thats the last time I used one of them.
> 
> THE EPICENTER CONCERT SERIES SPECIFICATIONS
> All specifications are measured at 14.4 VDC (standard automotive voltage).
> ...


How has Audiocontrol the right to change our weather?


----------



## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

It seems they have redesign that unit. I dont have the old manual for the one I had in the 90s. But I don't remember it being connected that way back then. I too just got done looking at the online manual. 


I still dont know why he is using this unit. Makes no sense mated to this HU.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

audiophile9 said:


> 1. Running an epicenter because it restores bass lost in the mastering of old cd's I listen to.
> 2. Because the epicenter must see a full range signal to operate properly. I know this from running them for many years and also from close consultation with audio control engineers.
> 3. Yes. See answers to #1 and #2.
> 4. I'm running the standard epicenter. Not the plus or the half din unit
> ...


I do not need to do any research, I still own one, it on the shelf with another brand that does the same thing. I have owned many AC products since 1989 some I still own, however they have all been shelved.

For the Love of god it is a bass EQ period. For anyone to help you we would need to know the settings of the epicenter. 

What is the para-bass bandwidth set-on?
What is the para-bass freq. set on?
What is the PFM set on?

For someone that likes to talk about knowing this or that, you are clueless or still trying to live in the old days of car audio. IMO you about 10+ years behind the curve the way you are talking. 

I do not care if you talk to the guy who created the epicenter does not change what a epicenter does and is.

You need to read the manual on a epicenter very carefully. 

The pioneer has a damn EQ you can eq the bottom end just like a epicenter. 

Why do you think people use a DSP now days. I will give you hint to eq the sound to attain what they like to hear.

I am not even sure why I got in this thread, you are as clueless as they come. Do not come on a car audio forum with knowledgeable people and pretend that you have a clue and assume that everything they are saying is useless or they have not a clue. 

This is a complete waste of my time and knowledge at this point.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

And this.... See "The 80's- The era of bad video sound". http://download.phoenixphorum.com/Manuals/Processors/Basscubes/BassCube_Secrets.pdf


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

evo9 said:


> It seems they have redesign that unit. I dont have the old manual for the one I had in the 90s. But I don't remember it being connected that way back then. I too just got done looking at the online manual.
> 
> 
> I still dont know why he is using this unit. Makes no sense mated to this HU.



They have not redesigned ****, IMO. They have changed the way they market it now to move a product that has long surpassed its need in today's market.

Same with all the out-board cross-over stuff. You buy a mini-DSP for half the cost and it will take a **** all over the out-board stuff. AC new digital stuff like the DQX, EQL and OEM integration pieces are decent unless comparing them to a ARC PS8, MS-8, Zacpo DSP8, RF 3sixty3 ect. all of those processors are way more advanced than anything AC currently produces.

They are trying to sell you on something that is not needed with an Ipod. Look at the test that Erin has done or many other sites there are no issues with a Ipod freq. response. 

AC is way behind the times when it comes to processors, unfortunately they have no changed with the times and kept up with competing products.


----------



## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Ditch that epi-thing and just enable bass boost or EQ or whatever, seems just reduntant to use it. Sounds like it just EQs the bass. Try without it and listen if it sounds better and use all RCA outs on the HU directly to the amps. That's what I'd do.


----------



## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

audiophile9 said:


> dsp will alter the sound. I know what good sound is without dsp so why would I turn it on now if I know there is bad sound? That's what I mean as masking.


yes, DSP will alter the sound, insofar as it will allow you to change the arrival times of the sounds made by the individual speakers to make them all arrive at your listening position at the same time. it's like using a time delay to 'move' the particular speaker further away. it will 'alter' the sound by delaying it, and along with some use of an EQ will allow you to make the stereo sound as close to a good home stereo as possible, again, given the limitations of a car installation. but that's neither here nor there in terms of the problems you are trying to fix. i think another check of the factory EQ and settings will be the best starting point. also, i would urge you to not blanketly dismiss tools that can make things sound a LOT better (EQ, time alignment, crossover settings etc.)


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

The AC Epicenter is a bass SYNTHESIZER, it is NOT am Eq. Read the patent for chrissakes. An opamp circuit detects how much midbass there is in one frequency, and then mixes in a proportional amount of artificially synthesized low-frequency sinewave to "restore" bass (crock of **** really, it's not restoring, it's adding new information that was never present). The patent was obtained because they figured out how to not do this trick when vocals were playing.

An AC Epicenter is not in the same ballpark as what most audiophiles stand for, philosophically.

So who created a troll sockpuppet account for the lulz?


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I use something similar to the epicenter (it's a VST plugin that's a lot more sophisticated than the epicenter). It's more than just an EQ. There's some program material where it's useful.

But it's kinda silly to say you don't need DSP while using an epicenter.

It's hard for me to imagine a car that cannot benefit from DSP. How do you correct for pathlength differences? How do you flatten wide bandwidth driver responses? Sure, you can perform many of these tricks in the analog domain, but why is that superior to digital? You can in fact create a digital filter that's literally identical in operation to an analog filter.


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Neil_J said:


> The AC Epicenter is a bass SYNTHESIZER, it is NOT am Eq. Read the patent for chrissakes. An opamp circuit detects how much midbass there is in one frequency, and then mixes in a proportional amount of low-frequency sinewave to "restore" bass (crock of **** really, it's not restoring, it's adding new information that was never present). The patent was obtained because they figured out how to not do this trick when vocals were playing.
> 
> So who created a troll sockpuppet account for the lulz?



Neil-I fully agree with you.

The wording EQ was used as the other will be way to hard to explain to the OP. If you are MarkZ are up to explaining it to the OP more power to you.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Genxx said:


> Neil-I fully agree with you.


Agreed.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audiophile9 said:


> dsp will alter the sound. I know what good sound is without dsp so why would I turn it on now if I know there is bad sound? That's what I mean as masking.


You have a reference quality system with just amp crossovers and component passives? One of such an accuracy level that you can evaluate high end source unit quality with?

:icon_bs:


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

evo9 said:


> ^^^^ Agree!


Feel free to leave then if you feel that way. I know hi end sound and have done it for over 30 years fella.


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

vactor said:


> yes, DSP will alter the sound, insofar as it will allow you to change the arrival times of the sounds made by the individual speakers to make them all arrive at your listening position at the same time. it's like using a time delay to 'move' the particular speaker further away. it will 'alter' the sound by delaying it, and along with some use of an EQ will allow you to make the stereo sound as close to a good home stereo as possible, again, given the limitations of a car installation. but that's neither here nor there in terms of the problems you are trying to fix. i think another check of the factory EQ and settings will be the best starting point. also, i would urge you to not blanketly dismiss tools that can make things sound a LOT better (EQ, time alignment, crossover settings etc.)


It's flat. I know what flat is. And what is Supposed to sound like . Complicateing it with more processing isn't a fix. It's a band aid. After I get the sound correct then I can apply dsp. Eq. Or anything else...been doing hi end sound and former Iasca sq champion.


----------



## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

audiophile9 said:


> Feel free to leave then if you feel that way. I know hi end sound and have done it for over 30 years fella.


You really are on the wrong forum. Google caraudio and see what comes up. I bet you'll find someone there that will agree with you.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

audiophile9 said:


> It's flat. I know what flat is. And what is Supposed to sound like . Complicateing it with more processing isn't a fix. It's a band aid. After I get the sound correct then I can apply dsp. Eq. Or anything else...been doing hi end sound and former Iasca sq champion.


Then why are you asking for help and calling tech support lines? Why are you unable to achieve good results with the same equipment that others have been able to achieve good results with?

Sometimes the best way to design a system is to recognize that you don't have all the answers.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

You've been offered NUMEROUS suggestions yet don't seem to be pursuing them. So, rather than being argumentative and telling us how you know sound, start working in finding the issue. Troubleshoot. You've ha plenty of help here. Start using the advice given. 

Reply as you go. Explain what you tried and what the result was. Until then, we're all going in circles. 

However, I'd really suggest trying to get a replacement deck or take it to someone who understands what the deck is capable of and how to set it up. Because at this point, if you've still not be able to been able to narrow down if the deck itself is faulty or not, something that should be extremely easy, I don't really have much faith in your ability to accurately troubleshoot the issue. Furthermore, you seem more focused on arguing than resolving the issue. There are a lot of people on this site who are very knowledgeable and have only been in this hobby for 5 years. I suggest dropping the "IASCA champion" attitude because it obviously has no bearing whatsoever on your ability to fix a problem (as evidenced already) and doesn't really inspire folks to want to help you. This isn't a dig. This is the truth. 


If you choose to troubleshoot yourself, please provide SPECIFIC information on what you've done and the result. 


To everyone else, please do not reply until the OP puts forth legitimate effort at fixing the problem. This thread seems like a ploy and its not going anywhere.


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Swap decks and see if it sounds better. 

Or remove the epi. 

If you have already adjusted or check the deck then you are going to have to eliminate something and that would first be the newest item where the problem occurred. 

Otherwise I think everyone has done what they can do unless there is some never seen or heard of issue with the deck and your epi. 


I don't know why you are using that deck and the epi. 

I will take that pioneer and you can have my eclipse cd5030.

But for real logically this shouldn't be so hard to figure out.


----------



## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

bikinpunk said:


> check the EQ settings. i can't recall for sure, but it might have a curve enabled automatically. it seems like I had to set it to flat after I installed it the first time.
> 
> just a thought...


Yes it does....I think it's the powerfull setting. 
You also have to change it everytime you erase the audio setting.
Still not a "nasely" sound though.


----------



## Jrvtecaccord (Jul 3, 2008)

I've read over the thread and i am confused on how the OP has amps configured.

OP is it possible to make a diagram of your components with respective crossover points to get a high level of how its configured. If the source is set to FLAT without any processing I dont see how the HU can be the issue unless its a lemon or you feeding the HU crappy media.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

ou812 said:


> You really are on the wrong forum. Google caraudio and see what comes up. I bet you'll find someone there that will agree with you.


Still here eh? Why?


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

MarkZ said:


> Then why are you asking for help and calling tech support lines? Why are you unable to achieve good results with the same equipment that others have been able to achieve good results with?
> 
> Sometimes the best way to design a system is to recognize that you don't have all the answers.


Do you know what "Good results" are? I'm now realizing just how far high end sound has deteriorated over the years. Most seem to be concerned with bells & whistles head units these days and dont know what "Good sound" really is.

If I posted here, wouldnt that mean in itself I dont have the answer?

I belive many would think my setup sounded fine as is, but because of my experience, I know its wrong.

I'm away on business right now in a hotel, so it will be a while until I can run some more tests and trouble shoot further.


----------



## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> You've been offered NUMEROUS suggestions yet don't seem to be pursuing them. So, rather than being argumentative and telling us how you know sound, start working in finding the issue. Troubleshoot. You've ha plenty of help here. Start using the advice given.
> 
> Reply as you go. Explain what you tried and what the result was. Until then, we're all going in circles.
> 
> ...


I have used some of advice here as well as from Pioneer, nothing so far has worked. I have also received a lot of agumentative attitues from my post and yet you seem focused on discounting that I have any ability to troubleshoot the problem. So when I try to respond to the sarcacim and cheap shots here you say I'm focused on aruguing??? Me being an IASCA Champion does have a bearing on my abilities but sounds like you havent done it so how would you know? I Have been out of competition for several years and thought it might be easier to go to a forum to help me diagnose a problem I have never came across before in over over 25 years of doing audio I have seen a lot of problems. I think at this point it will be easier for me to continue to consult with some of my old school industry experts and friends than come here for further help. 

Best Regards.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

Jrvtecaccord said:


> I've read over the thread and i am confused on how the OP has amps configured.
> 
> OP is it possible to make a diagram of your components with respective crossover points to get a high level of how its configured. If the source is set to FLAT without any processing I dont see how the HU can be the issue unless its a lemon or you feeding the HU crappy media.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


Again, one of my thoughts, bad head unit...either defective or substandard design with subpar SQ.

My media source is a sheffield lab disc. One of the best SQ CDs ever to be produced.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

JAX said:


> Swap decks and see if it sounds better.
> 
> Or remove the epi.
> 
> ...


I bypassed the epicenter long before I even made the post here, thats why I know its not the issue and never brought it up until someone questioned why I was not using the decks Cross overs.

I also made it clear earlier why I'm running the Epicenter. So not sure why you're asking me why I'm running it....?

Yea, I might sell this unit, but I have received a PM on asking about it so that guy will have first shot at it before Ebay if I decide to dump it.

Again, I'm away from home so will be a while til I get to work on it some more...

Thanks


----------



## IDGAF (Dec 27, 2009)

If you, with over 25 years of experience and a championship under your belt, can't diagnose and/or fix the problem then the answer is obvious...

...crap deck. Get rid of it. Period. And never run another Pioneer product again since the other unit had the same problem.

Pics of said championship setup?


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## donnieL72 (Jun 20, 2012)

How did you connect your home source unit to you system? Did you unhook your RCA's at the amps and then go from there? Did you remove your head unit and connect it there? You stated that the problem was there with your friend's CD player as well. A bad RCA will make both units sound bad.

If you unhooked your RCAs at the amp, then you haven's eliminated just the head unit. You eliminated everything before the amps. You might have a bad RCA between the amp and the head unit. I would run a new RCA from front to back and see if that solves it. I've seen RCAs that were good and then swap decks and then BAM they were bad. Any time you hook up and unhook any type of signal cable this could happen, although rare.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

donnieL72 said:


> How did you connect your home source unit to you system? Did you unhook your RCA's at the amps and then go from there? Did you remove your head unit and connect it there? You stated that the problem was there with your friend's CD player as well. A bad RCA will make both units sound bad.
> 
> If you unhooked your RCAs at the amp, then you haven's eliminated just the head unit. You eliminated everything before the amps. You might have a bad RCA between the amp and the head unit. I would run a new RCA from front to back and see if that solves it. I've seen RCAs that were good and then swap decks and then BAM they were bad. Any time you hook up and unhook any type of signal cable this could happen, although rare.


My Elite unit was connected to the same RCA's the 80 was using, problem was gone. So thats why I think its a bad Pioneer deck.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

IDGAF said:


> If you, with over 25 years of experience and a championship under your belt, can't diagnose and/or fix the problem then the answer is obvious...
> 
> ...crap deck. Get rid of it. Period. And never run another Pioneer product again since the other unit had the same problem.
> 
> Pics of said championship setup?


haha! What would pics of my championship setup have to do with fixing this problem?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

audiophile9 said:


> haha! What would pics of my championship setup have to do with fixing this problem?


credibility! 


Mike....we have our soup sandwitch now


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

audiophile9 said:


> I bypassed the epicenter long before I even made the post here, thats why I know its not the issue and never brought it up until someone questioned why I was not using the decks Cross overs.
> 
> I also made it clear earlier why I'm running the Epicenter. So not sure why you're asking me why I'm running it....?
> 
> ...



I pm'd you first day posted saying I might be interested in buying. 

But really I am fine with my current deck. Thanks


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## IDGAF (Dec 27, 2009)

rexroadj said:


> credibility!
> 
> 
> Mike....we have our soup sandwitch now


Well... that too, but that's not why I asked. I just wanted to see what he was running and where and what not.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> credibility!
> 
> 
> Mike....we have our soup sandwitch now


haha! sure when I get home I'll dig you up a picture or 2 if you want


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

audiophile9 said:


> Do you know what "Good results" are? I'm now realizing just how far high end sound has deteriorated over the years. Most seem to be concerned with bells & whistles head units these days and dont know what "Good sound" really is.
> 
> If I posted here, wouldnt that mean in itself I dont have the answer?
> 
> I belive many would think my setup sounded fine as is, but because of my experience, I know its wrong.


Yes, I suppose it's possible that everyone who owns this deck doesn't know what to listen for, and only you do. But I think it's far more likely that the many many people who have achieved successful results with it -- including the engineers at Pioneer -- are not deaf, and that maybe... just maybe... you don't know as much as you think you do about this unit.

I also know that most of the knowledgeable and capable people here would know exactly how to troubleshoot this unit, without help. So that says a lot too.

Good luck to you.


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## audiophile9 (Sep 22, 2012)

MarkZ said:


> Yes, I suppose it's possible that everyone who owns this deck doesn't know what to listen for, and only you do. But I think it's far more likely that the many many people who have achieved successful results with it -- including the engineers at Pioneer -- are not deaf, and that maybe... just maybe... you don't know as much as you think you do about this unit.
> 
> I also know that most of the knowledgeable and capable people here would know exactly how to troubleshoot this unit, without help. So that says a lot too.
> 
> Good luck to you.


so you're another one that doesnt listen to what I'm saying and makes things up.

When did I say I know a lot about this unit? I didnt.

When did I say I'm the only one that knows what to listen for? I didnt.

That says a lot too.

I can trouble shoot the problem myself, like I said, just thought maybe someone here could easily shed some light on the issue cause they ran into the problem before.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

this thread has been closed. 

OP, when you've attempted to pursue suggestions given to you contact me with what you've done and your results and I'll open the thread back up. I've had too many PM me and suggest this whole thing seems staged and there has been zero evidence to prove otherwise so at the request of others this thread has been closed and will remain closed until evidence is given that you are genuinely looking for help and are making an honest effort at achieving results rather than spending a week arguing with the community to no avail.


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