# Need help with car audio sub for home audio prefab/flatpack/knockdown cabinet



## jv92red (Nov 17, 2018)

Hoping to get some help with a home sub box project I have in mind. So I have leftover from years ago 2x BNIB eD 13.0v.2 subs. These are the rare black cone variety and I have been saving them for a build. I recently purchased an Audiofrog GB10D2 sub for my current car because I wanted to go with a single smaller higher quality driver and stay with the Audiofrog theme I have going with my front stage. I figured I would use these eD 12" subs in my home audio system since I probably wouldn't get much back selling them and my home system has no sub currently.

My goal is to have these two subs both in their own individual ported enclosures used in my living room for movies and TV. I have zero woodworking skills and have no desire to build my own enclosure from scratch or spend over 1K something from a Home Audio sub vendor like a SVS, HSU or Monoprice as their offerings for something comparable will be well over 1K, and that's just for one sub assembly. I'm sure with a pre-cut cabinet that I am able to assemble with just glue and clamps along with a few small parts and I can still be well under 1K for 2 completed sub cabinets and that includes the amp. I won't be doing plate amps on the cabinets because even a ~$400 1K watt plate amp and with a Dual 4 wired sub I can only wire it for an 8ohm load and that's about 500 watts (looking at the Dayton SPA1000 specs), rather, a more cost-effective and sensible route will be to get a 2 channel Crown XLS-1502 amp and wire it stereo with the amp seeing a 2ohm load on each channel (each sub wired in parallel) This will drive each sub with about 775 watts per Crown's website and cost just about $430. Big D (Williston Audio labs YouTube channel) just dyno'd a Crown XLI 1500 a week ago and found it was underrated. eD lists the ideal wattage range for the 13Ov.2 sub at 300-700 watts so I should be ok with lower gains. The XLS I'm looking at has basic DSP, can run 2ohm stereo unlike the XLI series and the XLS being class D it should run cooler than the XLI. The reviews I've read said the fan doesn't come on much if at all and this is a big plus being that other pro audio amps have noisy fans and in my small living room that would be a deal killer for me. 

Here is the flatpack I'm looking at: 4.0cuft, 13ply 3/4" Baltic Birch tuned to 20hz using two 3" ports (or higher if the ports are cut shorter) fully braced and using Rabbet joints and dado grooves for $120: 
Denovo Audio Kuda™ M4-12k Baltic Birch 4.0cuft Subwoofer Flat-Pack for 12" Subwoofers

I am not familiar on how to model the sub to see how to tune it in this enclosure. It's odd that the site says the box is tuned to 20hz so I'm guessing I'll have to re-tune it for the subs but not sure at what Hz and how basically?

I have been looking for specs online for these subs and it seems that there are a few different sets of parameters. Apparently what eD was publishing and then what other people have measured?

I really appreciate any assistance with this. 

below is what I can find online on the specs:

Qts: .28
Qes: .30
Qms: 3.3
Fs: 21.00Hz
Re: 8.3
Vas: 176L
Mms: 195.0g
Bl: 21.70T*m
SPL: 89.1dB
Sd: 545cm²
Xmax: 18.3mm
Voice Coil: 62.5mm
Magnet Width: 6.750"
Cutout Diameter: 11.000"
Mounting Depth: 6.600"
Weight: 25lb
Total Height: 7.600"
Displacement: .07 ft³
Outside Diameter: 12.375" 

or from another person online who measured it and came up with:
Re: 7.256 (coils in series - not sure if this is a D2 or a D4?)
Fs: 28.3 Hz
Qts: 0.456
Qes: 0.496
Qms: 5.697
Le: 3.454 mH 

Below from their site: http://www.edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=2&pid=20&tab=Specs&cur=USD (using waybackmachine link I found online)


pec*13Ov.2 Subwoofer*​Qts.28​Qms3.3​Qes.3​Re8.3​Vas (Liter)176​Sd (cm^2)545​Fs (Hz)21​Bl21.7​MMd127.00​MMs134.00​Xmax18.3​


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

I am in a never ending quest for the best way to run car audio in the house. I have looked into the alleged 1000w DA plate amplifiers myself, but have a hard time believing that it is truly 1000w class A/B RMS.. and they give no specs on RMS, impedance, THD, etc. While I am no electrician by any means, I dont understand how anything more than a 20amp draw wouldn't flip a breaker.. and theres no way a true 1000w amp could operate at 20amp or less draw. Not to mention they're damn near $500/e. What I have done is run an electronic crossover [car audio] off a 12v 1 amp trickle charger and from there go into 4ohm stable 4 channel PeaVey mixer amps which is the most cost affordable solution i have found. I've using one, but have another if you''re interested.. tho that wont help if two ohm is your goal. However, I have 4 x 4ohm 12" SVC woofers running off of one channel right now without any problems. So I guess that would be my suggestion as of now.. though I'm always looking for a better suggestion so if anybody has one please dont hesitate to post.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

jv92red said:


> ...
> ... I won't be doing plate amps on the cabinets because even a ~$400 1K watt plate amp and with a Dual 4 wired sub I can only wire it for an 8ohm load and that's about 500 watts ...


Or a stereo plate and each channel feeds a single coil?




jv92red said:


> ...
> I am not familiar on how to model the sub to see how to tune it in this enclosure. It's odd that the site says the box is tuned to 20hz so I'm guessing I'll have to re-tune it for the subs but not sure at what Hz and how basically?
> ...


There are always passive radiators...




BJG said:


> I am in a never ending quest for the best way to run car audio in the house. I have looked into the alleged 1000w DA plate amplifiers myself, but have a hard time believing that it is truly 1000w class A/B RMS.. and they give no specs on RMS, impedance, THD, etc. While I am no electrician by any means, I dont understand how anything more than a 20amp draw wouldn't flip a breaker.. and theres no way a true 1000w amp could operate at 20amp or less draw.
> ...


For a maths check...
How much current would a 1000W RMS amp draw?
And how much would it draw at 100W?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

jv92red said:


> Hoping to get some help with a home sub box project I have in mind. So I have leftover from years ago 2x BNIB eD 13.0v.2 subs. These are the rare black cone variety and I have been saving them for a build. I recently purchased an Audiofrog GB10D2 sub for my current car because I wanted to go with a single smaller higher quality driver and stay with the Audiofrog theme I have going with my front stage. I figured I would use these eD 12" subs in my home audio system since I probably wouldn't get much back selling them and my home system has no sub currently.
> 
> My goal is to have these two subs both in their own individual ported enclosures used in my living room for movies and TV. I have zero woodworking skills and have no desire to build my own enclosure from scratch or spend over 1K something from a Home Audio sub vendor like a SVS, HSU or Monoprice as their offerings for something comparable will be well over 1K, and that's just for one sub assembly. I'm sure with a pre-cut cabinet that I am able to assemble with just glue and clamps along with a few small parts and I can still be well under 1K for 2 completed sub cabinets and that includes the amp. I won't be doing plate amps on the cabinets because even a ~$400 1K watt plate amp and with a Dual 4 wired sub I can only wire it for an 8ohm load and that's about 500 watts (looking at the Dayton SPA1000 specs), rather, a more cost-effective and sensible route will be to get a 2 channel Crown XLS-1502 amp and wire it stereo with the amp seeing a 2ohm load on each channel (each sub wired in parallel) This will drive each sub with about 775 watts per Crown's website and cost just about $430. Big D (Williston Audio labs YouTube channel) just dyno'd a Crown XLI 1500 a week ago and found it was underrated. eD lists the ideal wattage range for the 13Ov.2 sub at 300-700 watts so I should be ok with lower gains. The XLS I'm looking at has basic DSP, can run 2ohm stereo unlike the XLI series and the XLS being class D it should run cooler than the XLI. The reviews I've read said the fan doesn't come on much if at all and this is a big plus being that other pro audio amps have noisy fans and in my small living room that would be a deal killer for me.
> 
> ...


4 ft^3 is way too big for the first set of specs and too small for the measured set of specs (the 3rd set of specs only changes MMs which will only affect apparent load and small changes in group delay, etc. won't model any differently with the small change in mass.)

The 1st set of specs you gave wants a ported box 1.872 ft^3 tuned to 35 Hz.
The 2nd set of measured specs you gave wants 8 to 10 ft^3 @ 24.7 Hz.

This screenshot from WinISD shows what each version of the specs you've provided "wants" in the dark flatter traces and what is predicted in the brighter traces. 1st version is in Green. 2nd version is in Blue.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> I am in a never ending quest for the best way to run car audio in the house. I have looked into the alleged 1000w DA plate amplifiers myself, but have a hard time believing that it is truly 1000w class A/B RMS.. and they give no specs on RMS, impedance, THD, etc. While I am no electrician by any means, I dont understand how anything more than a 20amp draw wouldn't flip a breaker.. and theres no way a true 1000w amp could operate at 20amp or less draw. Not to mention they're damn near $500/e. What I have done is run an electronic crossover [car audio] off a 12v 1 amp trickle charger and from there go into 4ohm stable 4 channel PeaVey mixer amps which is the most cost affordable solution i have found. I've using one, but have another if you''re interested.. tho that wont help if two ohm is your goal. However, I have 4 x 4ohm 12" SVC woofers running off of one channel right now without any problems. So I guess that would be my suggestion as of now.. though I'm always looking for a better suggestion so if anybody has one please dont hesitate to post.


20 Amps at 120V = 2,400 Watts

Breakers trip on a time curve that operates at the speed of light and it takes many cycles of 60Hz power at logarithmic levels above the rated value to trip. A 20A Breaker will trip in about 6 cycles on a bolted fault of 2,000 Amps or higher but at 25A continuous draw it would take many minutes to trip...

Here's a chart from Crown showing what you can get from each 20A Circuit (these are touring grade circuits meant to be run off dedicated runs from a dedicated 3-Phase Supply):


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> I am in a never ending quest for the best way to run car audio in the house. I have looked into the alleged 1000w DA plate amplifiers myself, but have a hard time believing that it is truly 1000w class A/B RMS.. and they give no specs on RMS, impedance, THD, etc. While I am no electrician by any means, I dont understand how anything more than a 20amp draw wouldn't flip a breaker.. and theres no way a true 1000w amp could operate at 20amp or less draw. Not to mention they're damn near $500/e. What I have done is run an electronic crossover [car audio] off a 12v 1 amp trickle charger and from there go into 4ohm stable 4 channel PeaVey mixer amps which is the most cost affordable solution i have found. I've using one, but have another if you''re interested.. tho that wont help if two ohm is your goal. However, I have 4 x 4ohm 12" SVC woofers running off of one channel right now without any problems. So I guess that would be my suggestion as of now.. though I'm always looking for a better suggestion so if anybody has one please dont hesitate to post.


Those 1000watt dayton amps are GARBAGE. see there is something we can agree on. I am still running my Elemental Design L/T1300 amp and recently spend $400 to have it repaired after 15 years of use.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

daloudin said:


> 20 Amps at 120V = 2,400 Watts
> 
> Breakers trip on a time curve that operates at the speed of light and it takes many cycles of 60Hz power at logarithmic levels above the rated value to trip. A 20A Breaker will trip in about 6 cycles on a bolted fault of 2,000 Amps or higher but at 25A continuous draw it would take many minutes to trip...
> 
> ...



And are you saying that 2400W is greater than 1000W?
And that 1000W is somewhere around 8 or 9 Amps?
And at 80% efficiency that is is maybe 10-11 Amps.
And then the 1000W RMS may be no where near continuous power delivered to the. Speakers?...


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Holmz said:


> And are you saying that 2400W is greater than 1000W?
> And that 1000W is somewhere around 8 or 9 Amps?
> And at 80% efficiency that is is maybe 10-11 Amps.
> And then the 1000W RMS may be no where near continuous power delivered to the. Speakers?...


#Blushing 😎 [OP was 3 months ago... DOH!!!]


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Those 1000watt dayton amps are GARBAGE. see there is something we can agree on. I am still running my Elemental Design L/T1300 amp and recently spend $400 to have it repaired after 15 years of use.



Well there goes that idea.. Thanks for heads up!


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## jv92red (Nov 17, 2018)

Posted 3 months ago and finally gets some good info to look over. Thanks for running the numbers through WinISD. So am i still ok running this sub in a 4.0cuft ported Kuda box tuned somewhere higher in the 20Hz-30Hz range? My concern is blowing these subs out running them in less than ideal enclosure even though i would run a subsonic hi pass below the tuning frequency. Or should i just throw these in 2.0 cuft sealed boxes and call it day?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> #Blushing 😎 [OP was 3 months ago... DOH!!!]


I realize that.. but instead creating a new thread about car/home audio conversion I just bumped this one up instead. I know absolutely nothing about home electricity.. to the point I thought 20amp meant 20 amp. Lol. However, I am having a part of my house remodeled and was talking to an electrician today. I asked him if there was anything that could take 120v to 12v - 100amp and he swore up and down that there was a some type of conversion box that would do that.. and I told him I didn't believe it. If something like that did indeed exist, certainly somebody in this forum would be aware of it. Yet again, he swore up and down that it does exist and is going to bring me a picture of it. I'm assuming that I was either explaining what I was looking for incorrectly, or he misunderstood what I exactly I'm in search of. Nevertheless, he will be back today, and clearly by the reply by @daloudin there are people here who know a lot about electricity..

So let me ask this.. the reason there is no conversion box is not because of the voltage or the wattage as there 12v 1amp trickle chargers, etc... that means it's because of the amperage then? Is that correct? Or why does such a thing not exist?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Sorry - been concentrating on the Mobile side.

The concern is that the two sets of specs are SO different. I'd be inclined to go with the manufacturers specs. And at that spec, yes you could use the 4 ft³ box tuned at 28hz which reduces average output by about 1db but actually gives you a lower f3 than the optimal box with more low end. 

If it sounds boomy and thick without the low bass extension then you know it needs the bigger box at which point if you grafted the two boxes into one 8 ft³ box you'd get what the other specs are calling for...

Yes, a 20hz LR24 HP will be needed. 

No to the sealed, neither set of specs would work well with a sealed enclosure. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> I realize that.. but instead creating a new thread about car/home audio conversion I just bumped this one up instead. I know absolutely nothing about home electricity.. to the point I thought 20amp meant 20 amp. Lol. However, I am having a part of my house remodeled and was talking to an electrician today. I asked him if there was anything that could take 120v to 12v - 100amp and he swore up and down that there was a some type of conversion box that would do that.. and I told him I didn't believe it. If something like that did indeed exist, certainly somebody in this forum would be aware of it. Yet again, he swore up and down that it does exist and is going to bring me a picture of it. I'm assuming that I was either explaining what I was looking for incorrectly, or he misunderstood what I exactly I'm in search of. Nevertheless, he will be back today, and clearly by the reply by @daloudin there are people here who know a lot about electricity..
> 
> So let me ask this.. the reason there is no conversion box is not because of the voltage or the wattage as there 12v 1amp trickle chargers, etc... that means it's because of the amperage then? Is that correct? Or why does such a thing not exist?


The mention about 3 months was basically an apology to the OP because no one had answered the original question and the first actual reply detoured the whole thread. 

Conversion from AC to DC is noisy (harmonics and RF, not audible frequencies) complex and lossy. It's easier to generate DC power than it is to convert it in large quantities. It is done regularly though in industry - Induction Arc Furnaces for smelting metal, etc.

The real dinger is why would you want to? Amplifiers need both positive and negative voltage which AC already has, converting to DC means you also have to create the negative as well. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> The mention about 3 months was basically an apology to the OP because no one had answered the original question and the first actual reply detoured the whole thread.
> 
> Conversion from AC to DC is noisy (harmonics and RF, not audible frequencies) complex and lossy. It's easier to generate DC power than it is to convert it in large quantities. It is done regularly though in industry - Induction Arc Furnaces for smelting metal, etc.
> 
> ...


Never thought about the ground.. and is it safe to assume that one could not properly ground even if the power was there?

Again.. I know absolutely NOTHING about DC.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Never thought about the ground.. and is it safe to assume that one could not properly ground even if the power was there?
> 
> Again.. I know absolutely NOTHING about DC.


No

Grounding is not the issue. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> No
> 
> Grounding is not the issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Then what exactly is the issue.. or why are people spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars on plate amps, etc instead using some sort of conversion box? Why do they not exist?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

BJG said:


> 120v to 12v - 100amp


Unless I missed what you meant I own a couple that do this. They are readily available. One is a cheap eBay one. It was like $60. Another was one that allegedly provides clean power and retailed for a few hundred. They both work exactly the same in my garage.

Like this. I believe this is a 50amp. I wasn't searching for a 100amp but you get the idea 









AC 110/220V to DC 12V Volt Transformer Switching Mode Power Supply Converter | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AC 110/220V to DC 12V Volt Transformer Switching Mode Power Supply Converter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> Well there goes that idea.. Thanks for heads up!


Look for something that is ICEpower designed. Stay away from Crown amps too.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Theslaking said:


> Unless I missed what you meant I own a couple that do this. They are readily available. One is a cheap eBay one. It was like $60. Another was one that allegedly provides clean power and retailed for a few hundred. They both work exactly the same in my garage.
> 
> Like this. I believe this is a 50amp. I wasn't searching for a 100amp but you get the idea
> 
> ...




Oh man that is EXACTLY what I am looking for! I have been searching for like that for over 15yrs! Now I run all of the spare amps I have in the house. I have gotten past the impedance problem using 4ohm stable PeaVey mixer amps and running DVC subs @ 8ohm off of Sony receivers.. but the problem is that home AV just doesn't handle the <50hz range very well. I have 4 Sony 10" active woofers set @ 100hz and my crossover set at 50hz for the 6 12" car audio subs.. but the subs can't produce what the signal doesn't supply.

I will be ordering several of those today.. THANK YOU!!!!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

There's no problem converting AC to DC - you can buy 200A even 400A DC car jump boxes/battery chargers at the auto parts store. It's just not an efficient way to use power. 

Get an Adcom GFA-565 and run your subs at 2 ohm if you want to see what a real amplifier is like.









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## jv92red (Nov 17, 2018)

What would be the issue of running Crown amps for home audio? Perhaps in the pro audio world they are subject to more harsh environments and get beat to hell but in a controlled home audio environment where the temperature is controlled and they're never moved the only negative with pro amps were the noisy fans which the XLS line does very well with being silent or rarely running in home environments.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

The power inverter is definitely the cheapest route so long as you already have the amps on hand, as I do.. I have several JL 500/1 which have an internal 50amp fuse. My question is that the inverter is rated at 50a/600w Max.. so if the amperage falls below 50amps, but maintains a consistent 12 volts... that shouldn't trigger an undercurrent cutoff switch in the JL amp, right?

And if not, I also have couple of amps with a 90amp fuse.. can I use those off a 50 amp max inverter as well?

Of course, I would use one inverter for each amp..


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Sorry for the bump.. but I am seriously going to get some of these if they will work. I'm just trying to save myself the hassle of having to go through the return process if they won't.

Thanks.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> The power inverter is definitely the cheapest route so long as you already have the amps on hand, as I do.. I have several JL 500/1 which have an internal 50amp fuse. My question is that the inverter is rated at 50a/600w Max.. so if the amperage falls below 50amps, but maintains a consistent 12 volts... that shouldn't trigger an undercurrent cutoff switch in the JL amp, right?
> 
> And if not, I also have couple of amps with a 90amp fuse.. can I use those off a 50 amp max inverter as well?
> 
> Of course, I would use one inverter for each amp..


There are a bunch of people who use extra car audio amps and radios in their shop or home. It will work fine - to a point. If you're planning to run the amp up to its maximum current threshold then the power supply would need to be able to supply the in rush charging current for the amplifier in question. 

There's a whole host of things to take into consideration. A power supply that's rated to supply 50A max with a 100% duty cycle may be able to supply much higher amperage short term as a function of the design. It's why generators say they'll provide 8,500 Watts continuously and 10,000 Watts starting capacity. There's spinning reserves, eddy currents, transformer magnetizing current and other factors that all go in to that number. 

To say that it will work is true. At what point will you have problems if the margin is too close? It depends on a whole host of variables. Better to error on the side of having too much capacity versus not enough. 

High current amplifier design is an art and anytime you use a power supply designed for steady state current supply and subject it to the transients required for audio reproduction your mileage may vary. 

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

That's the description. I guess I'm a little thrown off by what "fit rate" power is. Although as you stated, the start power is higher than what the rate power is. Of course, I don't plan on running the amps wide open all day long.. but that doesn't mean I won't get to cranking it up from time to time.

My direct question is, if rate power is less than 50amp on a JL 500/1 which has a 50 amp fuse.. will it trigger the undercurrent cutoff switch?

Thanks.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> While I am no electrician by any means, I dont understand how anything more than a 20amp draw wouldn't flip a breaker.. and theres no way a true 1000w amp could operate at 20amp or less draw.


Home Theater
1000 watts / 110 volts = 9.1 amps
1000 watts / 120 volts = 8.3 amps
Car Audio
1000 watts / 14.4 volts = 69.4 amps

Supply voltage makes a huge difference.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Those plate amps may be a better plan?

One would lilely want to run some capacItors behind the power supply if they went 12V..


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> View attachment 291387
> 
> 
> That's the description. I guess I'm a little thrown off by what "fit rate" power is. Although as you stated, the start power is higher than what the rate power is. Of course, I don't plan on running the amps wide open all day long.. but that doesn't mean I won't get to cranking it up from time to time.
> ...


Fit rate appears to be a problem in translation intended to mean that it's not designed to output 50 Amps continuously. 

Never heard of an undercurrent cutoff on a JL Audio 500/1 - if you're talking about Under Voltage (JL Amps will shutdown if the supply voltage drops under 11 volts) then it's quite likely that it would shutdown when the DC power supply can't supply enough voltage. Again, having more capacity than needed would prevent this from happening. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Fit rate appears to be a problem in translation intended to mean that it's not designed to output 50 Amps continuously.
> 
> Never heard of an undercurrent cutoff on a JL Audio 500/1 - if you're talking about Under Voltage (JL Amps will shutdown if the supply voltage drops under 11 volts) then it's quite likely that it would shutdown when the DC power supply can't supply enough voltage. Again, having more capacity than needed would prevent this from happening.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk



You are correct, I was talking about the under voltage cutoff. Having said that if it was able to put out a constant 12v, but the amp was not able to draw a full 50amps from the power source.. the only downside would lack of reaching max power. Is that correct?

I have also looked for something more powerful than the 50 amp model, but I end up wading through pages upon pages AC to DC inverters.. and haven't found anything larger than the 50 amp model.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> Those plate amps may be a better plan?
> 
> One would lilely want to run some capacItors behind the power supply if they went 12V..



That was initially what I was looking at.. but @miniSQ told me to stay away from them so I have. I could see if one didn't already have a spare amp they may find them appealing.. but Ive probably got 15-20 amps just collecting dust that I've collected (all work, but half of them aren't worth a ****) over the years so to pay $450+ for a plate amp is something I am no longer interested in.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> That was initially what I was looking at.. but @miniSQ told me to stay away from them so I have. I could see if one didn't already have a spare amp they may find them appealing.. but Ive probably got 15-20 amps just collecting dust that I've collected (all work, but half of them aren't worth a ****) over the years so to pay $450+ for a plate amp is something I am no longer interested in.


I have used a battery and a charger to power a subwoofer amp before (in my house), it would probably be better to add a capacitor to that setup. It wasn't ideal but it worked.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

what type of charger did you use that was able to maintain a minimum 12v when running the amp off the battery? and was it just a standard auto battery?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> what type of charger did you use that was able to maintain a minimum 12v when running the amp off the battery? and was it just a standard auto battery?


It was a 15 amp Walmart charger and an Optima Yellow Top battery running a 300 watt cheater amp on a Kicker C12 in a bandpass box. The battery provides the large bursts of power and the charger refills it. A smart charger would be better, you could just leave it turned on.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> You are correct, I was talking about the under voltage cutoff. Having said that if it was able to put out a constant 12v, but the amp was not able to draw a full 50amps from the power source.. the only downside would lack of reaching max power. Is that correct?
> 
> I have also looked for something more powerful than the 50 amp model, but I end up wading through pages upon pages AC to DC inverters.. and haven't found anything larger than the 50 amp model.


Depends on design. 

Standard power supplies will automatically lower voltage in an attempt to maintain the current flow. 

Rarely there are regulated power supplies that will maintain voltage and limit current (which is worse in your usage scenario) which would cause the amplifier to not be able to complete the waveform distorting the signal, generating heat and terrible stress on the driver. 

There are lots of DC power supplies that can do the job but as previously mentioned they are not designed to be audio power supplies. Your best bet would be to build a battery bank that one of these Battery Chargers would maintain. The battery (or supercap if your really going to do this) supplies all the instantaneous power while the DC power supply maintains the charge like an alternator in a car. 

A DC power supply that could run multiple car amps with clean, filtered power without noise or spikes would be laboratory grade and cost way more than purchasing a quality amplifier. 









Amazon.com: Powermax Brand New 120 Amp 12 Volt Battery Charger Power Supply- Advanced Switch Mode Design, Overtemperature Protection with Brownout Input and Includes 15 feet Clamp. : Automotive


Amazon.com: Powermax Brand New 120 Amp 12 Volt Battery Charger Power Supply- Advanced Switch Mode Design, Overtemperature Protection with Brownout Input and Includes 15 feet Clamp. : Automotive



www.amazon.com





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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Depends on design.
> 
> Standard power supplies will automatically lower voltage in an attempt to maintain the current flow.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the informative reply, even tho the price is 6x the other one.. I am not afraid to spend the money on something that would work. As i've stated before, I've overcome the impedance issue in the house.. the problem is that home equipment just isn't designed to reproduce the low frequencies that car audio amplifiers do. So I will invest in what you suggested over the other.

Once again, thank you for the helpful advice!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Thank you for the informative reply, even tho the price is 6x the other one.. I am not afraid to spend the money on something that would work. As i've stated before, I've overcome the impedance issue in the house.. the problem is that home equipment just isn't designed to reproduce the low frequencies that car audio amplifiers do. So I will invest in what you suggested over the other.
> 
> Once again, thank you for the helpful advice!


Suggesting that home audio equipment can't reproduce bass is naive...

Home equipment: 

"Adcom GFA-575se 2018 Black | Affiliated Electronics Inc | Reverb" Adcom GFA-575se 2018 Black | Affiliated Electronics Inc | Reverb

"Fathom f212v2-GLOSS – JL Audio" Fathom® f212v2-GLOSS









Amazon.com: SVS PB16-Ultra 1500 Watt 16" Ported Cabinet Subwoofer (Piano Gloss Black) : Electronics


Buy SVS PB16-Ultra 1500 Watt 16" Ported Cabinet Subwoofer (Piano Gloss Black): Subwoofers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> That was initially what I was looking at.. but @miniSQ told me to stay away from them so I have.
> ...


Stay await from what?
(Capacitors or plate amps?)

For all the dickinaround, selling the sub amps and getting a couple of plates seems like it could still be worth considering.

What are you doing with all the vented hydrogen gas?
It seems like it could make the subs sound a bit Mickey Mouse...


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Suggesting that home audio equipment can't reproduce bass is naive...
> 
> Home equipment:
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go as far as calling me niave. I'll bet those active home subwoofers would sound pretty good.. or at least they better for $2,500/e. Same goes for the $8,000 amplifier. However, generally speaking home audio equipment does not reproduce <50hz frequencies anywhere near as effectively as car audio equipment. That does not mean that it is not possible.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> Stay await from what?
> (Capacitors or plate amps?)
> 
> For all the dickinaround, selling the sub amps and getting a couple of plates seems like it could still be worth considering.
> ...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> I wouldn't go as far as calling me niave. I'll bet those active home subwoofers would sound pretty good.. or at least they better for $2,500/e. Same goes for the $8,000 amplifier. However, generally speaking home audio equipment does not reproduce <50hz frequencies anywhere near as effectively as car audio equipment. That does not mean that it is not possible.


That is not true.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> That is not true.


How so.. given that most receivers today focus more on a X.1 or X.2 surround sound type configuration where the bass is offloaded to the subwoofer channel(s)? Those subwoofers are nowhere designed nor powered anywhere near your average car audio setup.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> As i've stated before, I've overcome the impedance issue in the house.. the problem is that home equipment just isn't designed to reproduce the low frequencies that car audio amplifiers do.


The good stuff does just that.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> I wouldn't go as far as calling me niave. I'll bet those active home subwoofers would sound pretty good.. or at least they better for $2,500/e. Same goes for the $8,000 amplifier. However, generally speaking home audio equipment does not reproduce


You seem to have a ported bookshelf speaker as a point of reference, home theater stuff goes very low, like single digits low.
I get your point though, the prices for some of that stuff are quite high. You can get a decently powerful amp for under $500 bucks, Crown XLS or similar.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> View attachment 291591


The hypex plate amps may be better quality than the daytons??


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> I wouldn't go as far as calling me niave. I'll bet those active home subwoofers would sound pretty good.. or at least they better for $2,500/e. Same goes for the $8,000 amplifier. However, generally speaking home audio equipment does not reproduce <50hz frequencies anywhere near as effectively as car audio equipment. That does not mean that it is not possible.


Home theater is designed to shake the yesterday's curry out of your system.

A car however, has more cabin gain, than a residential cabin...


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

ckirocz28 said:


> You seem to have a ported bookshelf speaker as a point of reference, home theater stuff goes very low, like single digits low.
> I get your point though, the prices for some of that stuff are quite high. You can get a decently powerful amp for under $500 bucks, Crown XLS or similar.


cmon man.. do you really think I'm using a ported bookshelf as a point of reference? I mean I'll be the first to admit that I'm certainly no self'-proclaimed know it all. but here's my reference: a car audio pre-amp crossover running off a 12v 1A trickle charger which feeds my Sony receivers a maximum 50hz signal. I use the main R/L channels rated at 250w RMS/e, I connect a JL W6V3D4 raised to 8 ohm to each channel in a separate, but equal, ~5 cubit foot box with a 4x15" port (woofer inverted). I take the same box, same crossover set @ 50hz, and connect just one box to a JL 500/1 @8ohm (full range) which lowers the output of the amp to 250/1 so I am comparing apples to apples.. and there is simply no comparison between the two. the JL amp will beat the **** out of that woofer compared to the Sony receiver. Now when I raise the setting to say 75-100hz on the crossover inside I get a lot of dish rattling vibration (which to me is mid bass) and I hate that. This is the basis of my statement that home audio just simply, AND EVEN BY DESIGN, doesn't replicate the frequency response of a car audio setup. I understand that many people are not looking for a car audio sound out of their home theater setup.. but I am. And I admit my Sony receivers are definitely not high end as far as Sony goes, but theyre not low end either. They are a few years old, but I ordered them direct from Sony and at that time they cost me a little over $900/e. So all that to say, hopefully, maybe now you understand my point of reference a little better.

EDIT - when I do connect the same crossover, same box to the JL amp.. it has been in my garage. So that eliminates, by default, any sort of cabin difference as I'm not putting them in the trunk which would then take my point of reference from apples to oranges.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> cmon man.. do you really think I'm using a ported bookshelf as a point of reference? I mean I'll be the first to admit that I'm certainly no self'-proclaimed know it all. but here's my reference: a car audio pre-amp crossover running off a 12v 1A trickle charger which feeds my Sony receivers a maximum 50hz signal. I use the main R/L channels rated at 250w RMS/e, I connect a JL W6V3D4 raised to 8 ohm to each channel in a separate, but equal, ~5 cubit foot box with a 4x15" port (woofer inverted). I take the same box, same crossover set @ 50hz, and connect just one box to a JL 500/1 @8ohm (full range) which lowers the output of the amp to 250/1 so I am comparing apples to apples.. and there is simply no comparison between the two. the JL amp will beat the **** out of that woofer compared to the Sony receiver. Now when I raise the setting to say 75-100hz on the crossover inside I get a lot of dish rattling vibration (which to me is mid bass) and I hate that. This is the basis of my statement that home audio just simply, AND EVEN BY DESIGN, doesn't replicate the frequency response of a car audio setup. I understand that many people are not looking for a car audio sound out of their home theater setup.. but I am. And I admit my Sony receivers are definitely not high end as far as Sony goes, but theyre not low end either. They are a few years old, but I ordered them direct from Sony and at that time they cost me a little over $900/e. So all that to say, hopefully, maybe now you understand my point of reference a little better.


I meant no offense with that statement.
I'm using a Sony DTS receiver feeding the sub channel to a Sony stereo receiver that puts out 135 x 2, that is powering a sealed RE Audio HC15 (dual 2 ohm). That setup gets obscenely low and more than loud enough, cannon fire will make you flinch. I've got a couple of 1500 watt car amps on a shelf a few feet away from that sub, I just don't feel the need for that much power in the house.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Your Sony receiver can support a 2ohm load??


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

BJG said:


> Your Sony receiver can support a 2ohm load??


It doesn't like it, but yes. It makes metallic popping noises inside the receiver if you turn it up too much!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Someone just posted this in the Facebook "Stereo Integrity Owners Group".








SVS 13-Ultra Amplifier Upgrade Kit


Upgrade SVS 13-Ultra subwoofers with greater output and all the benefits of the SVS subwoofer app.




www.svsound.com


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

ckirocz28 said:


> Someone just posted this in the Facebook "Stereo Integrity Owners Group".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I'm little confused.. that appears to be an upgraded amp for a previously active home subwoofer which I don't have... Or am I just misreading it?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

ckirocz28 said:


> It doesn't like it, but yes. It makes metallic popping noises inside the receiver if you turn it up too much!


Yea that's basically what mine does at anything lower than 4ohm.. but like I said I have overcome the impedance issue by raising DVC subs to 8 ohm.. along with using 4 channel / 4 ohm stable peavey mixer amps to power the other 4 12s off of just one channel which means it actually has to be 2ohm stable at least. Unless my math is wrong.. which is not an uncommon issue lol


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> Yea that's basically what mine does at anything lower than 4ohm.. but like I said I have overcome the impedance issue by raising DVC subs to 8 ohm.. along with using 4 channel / 4 ohm stable peavey mixer amps to power the other 4 12s off of just one channel which means it actually has to be 2ohm stable at least. Unless my math is wrong.. which is not an uncommon issue lol


How did you wire the 4 subs, and what were their impedences?

Did you check the end result with a DMM?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> How did you wire the 4 subs, and what were their impedences?
> 
> Did you check the end result with a DMM?


I did not check the result with a DMM. but the 4 12s are svc so there isn't much flexibilty to adjust the impedance. All I know is that they are 4ohm woofers. I bought them at a price where the enclosures are worth as much, if not more, than the woofers as they are made with 3/4" high density partical board and braced extremely well. the boxes alone probably weigh ~75lbs/e. I got them both with woofers for $50.. which is way less than i would have spent on just the wood needed to replicate them. I have every intention of replacing the MTX woofers with JL W6s, which i already have 2 of.. and am currently shopping for 2 more.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> I did not check the result with a DMM. but the 4 12s are svc so there isn't much flexibilty to adjust the impedance. All I know is that they are 4ohm woofers. I bought them at a price where the enclosures are worth as much, if not more, than the woofers as they are made with 3/4" high density partical board and braced extremely well. the boxes alone probably weigh ~75lbs/e. I got them both with woofers for $50.. which is way less than i would have spent on just the wood needed to replicate them. I have every intention of replacing the MTX woofers with JL W6s, which i already have 2 of.. and am currently shopping for 2 more.


Well I can imagine 4x 4-ohm subs being connected as

1-ohm
4-ohm
16-ohm

But I am having a hard time ending up with them arriving at 2-ohm or 8-ohm??

However with 2-ohm SVC subs, I can get to 2 or 8 ohms.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> Well I can imagine 4x 4-ohm subs being connected as
> 
> 1-ohm
> 4-ohm
> ...


To be honest I don't even know what they are or how they're wired. I pulled them to the just to twist the label on the cone and the wires were so tight thats all I could do, or at least care to do. those MTX are getting replaced. 100% chance of that.

And of the above choices.. 4ohm. fact.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I am just unclear how to wire them to 2-ohms... But using a DMM is something I usually do, if for not other reason than to make sure that the cables are not shorted.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Holmz said:


> I am just unclear how to wire them to 2-ohms... But using a DMM is something I usually do, if for not other reason than to make sure that the cables are not shorted.


Don't go there with him LOL. walk away quietly while he is sleeping. Let him find someone else to play with.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> Don't go there with him LOL. walk away quietly while he is sleeping. Let him find someone else to play with.


I was responding to his last sentence.



BJG said:


> Yea that's basically what mine does at anything lower than 4ohm.. but like I said I have overcome the impedance issue by raising DVC subs to 8 ohm.. along with using 4 channel / 4 ohm stable peavey mixer amps to power the other 4 12s off of just one channel which means it actually has to be 2ohm stable at least. *Unless my math is wrong.. which is not an uncommon issue lol*


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> cmon man.. do you really think I'm using a ported bookshelf as a point of reference? I mean I'll be the first to admit that I'm certainly no self'-proclaimed know it all. but here's my reference: a car audio pre-amp crossover running off a 12v 1A trickle charger which feeds my Sony receivers a maximum 50hz signal. I use the main R/L channels rated at 250w RMS/e...


What model is the Sony Receiver that's rated 250x2 Watts per channel? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Don't go there with him LOL. walk away quietly while he is sleeping. Let him find someone else to play with.














Like I said, I don't know how they are wired because when pulled them out to twist them so the logos they weren't upside down, the wires had so little slack that I couldn't even get my hand in there to disconnect the wires to see what model they were.. when I do swap them out I will have to reach in cable cutter and snip the wires to pull them out. I have no idea how they got hooked up originally with such little slack. However, when I said 4ohm, fact.. ^^^ is why.

Because, by default, everything coming off the peavey uses 1/4 plugs I ordered a bunch of 1/4 to speaker wire adapters from amazon which came yesterday.. and when I connected the woofers, that were previously connected to the Sony, to the peavey the difference was amazing. I have already unhooked the Sony and have replaced it with the other identical peavey amp I have and will be using that instead.

To start with, I was simply just looking for help/ideas/advice from people who are more knowledgeable than I am, and I thank those who took the time to reply. However, I already see this thread heading to hell in a handbasket.. so from here on out I will just go about alone.

@jimmydee please feel free to close this thread.

Thanks.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> \
> 
> @jimmydee please feel free to close this thread.
> 
> Thanks.


Can you ask to close a thread you didn't start? I was just joking around based on your short history of not understanding wiring and impedance.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> Can you ask to close a thread you didn't start?


No, you can't.



miniSQ said:


> I was just joking around based on your short history of not understanding wiring and impedance.


I thought you said you were going to put BJG on ignore...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> No, you can't.
> 
> 
> I thought you said you were going to put BJG on ignore...


I'm weak. i thought a corner was turned.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> I'm weak. i thought a corner was turned.


Unfortunately, I did too.. I have never tried to pick a fight with you. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and expertise, and I am admittedly not even in the same as league as you are as it pertains to this stuff. And if I have offended you in some way.. I do sincerely apologize.



miniSQ said:


> Don't go there with him LOL. walk away quietly while he is sleeping. Let him find someone else to play with.


However, comments like this are unnecessary in my opinion.. as I was truly seeking advice on this topic.

That being said.. if you feel that my questions/comments are so simply and altogether invalid to the point you feel you need to ignore them..then do what you have to do I guess.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> ...
> However, comments like this are unnecessary in my opinion.. as I was truly seeking advice on this topic.
> ...


Some good faith to do things, Ike using a DMM, would go along way towards understanding the system as well as being perceived as serious and quelling those sorts of oomments that led to your response.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> Unfortunately, I did too.. I have never tried to pick a fight with you. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and expertise, and I am admittedly not even in the same as league as you are as it pertains to this stuff. And if I have offended you in some way.. I do sincerely apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you miss the smile emoji? I was joking in reference to you standing by your statements for 2 days about wiring and impedance. If i was trying to be mean spirited, i would have messaged him.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> Some good faith to do things, Ike using a DMM, would go along way towards understanding the system as well as being perceived as serious and quelling those sorts of oomments that led to your response.


would you please recommend one? I don't want to spend a ton of money on some professional grade model.. as I really have no use for it after this project.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Did you miss the smile emoji? I was joking in reference to you standing by your statements for 2 days about wiring and impedance. If i was trying to be mean spirited, i would have messaged him.


Fair enough. And as it pertains to that, i guess the technically correct way to state what was in my head is to wire the subs in a series.. and then connect the speakers in parallel.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> would you please recommend one? I don't want to spend a ton of money on some professional grade model.. as I really have no use for it after this project.


If you own nothing. This one would be worth getting. Otherwise any DMM can be picked up for $20









2 in 1 Handheld Oscilloscope Multimeter, New Update Professional LED Oscilloscope Multimeter with 2.5 Msps High Sampling, Automatic Waveform Capture Function,DC/AC Voltage/Current Test: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


2 in 1 Handheld Oscilloscope Multimeter, New Update Professional LED Oscilloscope Multimeter with 2.5 Msps High Sampling, Automatic Waveform Capture Function,DC/AC Voltage/Current Test: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com








Amazon.com : dmm multimeter


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

BJG said:


> would you please recommend one? I don't want to spend a ton of money on some professional grade model.. as I really have no use for it after this project.


They are 10-20 $ for most of them.
Ad they go up to hundreds of $ for ones like Fluke, which you donot red,but. Which many people use professionally.
Just get the $15 one from Amazon and call it day.

Even both of my girls have DMMs, one a cheapie and the other uses a Fluke. The one with the cheapie mentioned she was putting in a switch and turned off the breaker and thought, I'll measure it to be sure... Her eyebrows jumped up like Spock, as the wrong breaker was turned off... so they are useful to have in general.

That Luimy is also handy

FWIW: I have a cheaply, a Fluke and a Luimy


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> If you own nothing. This one would be worth getting. Otherwise any DMM can be picked up for $20
> 
> 
> 
> ...


given that i do already own a multi-meter is there something less expensive that will just capture the waveforrm? Although I could be wrong, it appears that the only thing that model can do that I cannot due with my multi-meter is capture/measure the waveform.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> They are 10-20 $ for most of them.
> Ad they go up to hundreds of $ for ones like Fluke, which you donot red,but. Which many people use professionally.
> Just get the $15 one from Amazon and call it day.
> 
> ...













When I type DMM in amazon.. all i get are a bunch of multi-meters like I already have. Is there a more technical name or some other way to identify what exactly it is that I need?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Luimy is good.
If you were a inclined you could just use avoltage divider and capture it with lap top.

They also make iphone type of things for this (I believe).


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> Luimy is good.
> If you were a inclined you could just use avoltage divider and capture it with lap top.
> 
> They also make iphone type of things for this (I believe).


Now I'm typing from a laptop, but I have a Note 20 Ultra.. is there any android equivalent? Of how exactly do I use my laptop? because that i could do right now..


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## Ifixtheinternet (Jan 29, 2016)

jv92red said:


> What would be the issue of running Crown amps for home audio? Perhaps in the pro audio world they are subject to more harsh environments and get beat to hell but in a controlled home audio environment where the temperature is controlled and they're never moved the only negative with pro amps were the noisy fans which the XLS line does very well with being silent or rarely running in home environments.


I am doing exactly that.
I have a Crown XLS2502 with a Dayton UM18 in a sealed box and Iove it for home theater. The Crown amps are very efficient. I run it on the same 15a circuit with everything else and never had an issue.

I've pushed the sub really hard many times, easily giving it 1500 watts RMS. Fan has never come on, it's silent.
Can't beat the power/dollar ratio either.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Ifixtheinternet said:


> I am doing exactly that.
> I have a Crown XLS2502 with a Dayton UM18 in a sealed box and Iove it for home theater. The Crown amps are very efficient. I run it on the same 15a circuit with everything else and never had an issue.
> 
> I've pushed the sub really hard many times, easily giving it 1500 watts RMS. Fan has never come on, it's silent.
> ...


my question remains.. how do I test using my laptop?


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## Ifixtheinternet (Jan 29, 2016)

BJG said:


> my question remains.. how do I test using my laptop?


Test what?

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Holmz said:


> Luimy is good.
> If you were a inclined you could just use avoltage divider and capture it with lap top.
> 
> They also make iphone type of things for this (I believe).


 that reply got my attention..so that is what im looking for more detail as into how to use my laptop..


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