# so i cant believe i had such an awful experience - please help



## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

I have to say for the short time I have been on this website I have been treated respectfully and EVERY transaction I have had here has gone extremely well. 

I am going to give you a small back of background information about me prior to the intention of my post in an effort to gain some credibility.

I am 40 years old and have never married. I have been to over 3500 sets of music in my life starting as a 3 year old child when my father promoted concerts. My first concert was Alice Cooper and my parents took me to the 1978 KISS Love Gun tour including a backstage experience with the band(as a 6 YO that was pretty incredible, I loved KISS!) I absolutely love music, especially live and have TONS of crazy concert stories but don't want to bore you with that. I have acquired an extensive collection of high quality gear starting with my parents buying me a set of American Monitor Speakers in the early 80s and a tube amp to run them with. Clearly I have graduated from that setup but it was a pretty good start. I already had my fathers old reel to reel and his old LP player. In the late 80s I began recording concerts. I purchased Schoeps microphones and pre amps. Currently I still record EVERY concert I go to and make incredible recordings. I love audio....

Fast forward to today....

I have biochemistry degree and I sell Hematology and Chemistry analyzers. I have been on the top of my game for 11 years. Negotiations are all know how to do. Most importantly, I have earned the respect of many doctors who constantly refer me to other hospitals. 

I spent the last 1.5 years purchasing the equipment for 2 stereos both I believe to be really fun and exciting SQ builds.

I am going to ask for advice today on build #1 and how I have been treated by a local dealer. Additionally, I would like some constructive criticism if you feel I am the problem here. 

My local shop is an Audison dealer. In the last year I have purchased a lot of Elettromedia equipment not all from this shop but a lot. I purchase a full set of MLK3 speakers in the suitcase with the Ribbon Midrange from them. I purchased a $1000 alarm system. 2 Head units. $500 in cables. And over $2500 in installation fees in other stereos BEFORE I decided to do the overhaul of equipment I had. 

Prior to giving car to them 9 weeks ago I had installed the MLK3's with custom pillar work not done to my specifications that the manager was supposed to fix on this build. that front stage was being run by an audison VRX 4.300 passive. I had a diamond d6 sub being run by a phoenix gold zx500. The stereo was really fun, but not to my specifications yet because I was researching and purchasing the amps.

I negotiated the shop to do a full buildout of my maxima. built in ML2500s in the trunk totally trimmed out with my amps recessed mounted to the box with no wires showing. They were to install 3 amps the VRX 4.300, a VRX 1.500, and a VRX 2.400. All the amps were to have BTX2s run to them 3 of which were already installed he needed to install 1 more for all of the channels I needed. The bitone was to be installed in the glove box and the BTX2s as well so the unbalanced cable runs were as short as possible. 

I added a pair of ML1600s to the kick panels as well for an 8 channel front stage with 2 subs in the trunk. 

The WHOLE car has been sound deadened to the extreme.

So I dropped it off 9 weeks ago tomorrow and it is not done. I have been going to this shop for over a year planning this with the manager. He told me it would take 5 days. When I dropped off the car he said it would take 2 weeks because he was short staffed. I have a second car but I am in the middle of refinishing the interior/exterior of the vehicle and it is 1996 nissan hardbody, not exactly the car a sales rep for a billion $ company should be driving around in. 

I have been uber patient. I have sent the shop lunch 3 times and taken the manager out to dinner and drinks on multiple occasions. During every one of those conversations I empathized with what was happening at his business and he made promises to me regarding delivery.

Last week he promised me the car today and he did not deliver. In fact he told me that he was done with this project and would show me what he has done so far (which was nothing 2 weeks ago) and that he does not want to do the project any longer. I gave them a $500 deposit on a $1700 installation fee. 

I didn't give all the information here but I can't type anymore.

What do I do? I am picking up car tomorrow and I don't have anywhere to take it to be finished. I live in Philadelphia and I am very anal about how correct this build is and I need to have my second build done on my truck. This guy is such an idiot, I was sending him other business from my friends and I had another custom build I was going to have him do.

Can anyone help me to find a really good custom shop near Philly? I'm willing to drive as much as 3 hours for the right quality.

thanks for reading, sorry for drama....


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## Devourment (Jan 23, 2010)

Dang dude. That sounds horrible. I wished I had the skills to install. Or the balls. Either or. I'd do everything myself. It's so hard to trust shops now-a-days. It's ridiculous. Hopefully some locals are able to help you out.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

todd131,

Might try starting a new thread or checking out some of the other sections here on installing threads.

We have multiple threads that show builds in progress.

Your new thread title : looking for ????? ???? in philly area

I think you need to get in touch with someone you will find on this site, who does car audio because they love it.

Shops are trying to make money, plain and simple 

A couple of subs, some amps, etc.., ....... ChaChing ! NEXT


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok I am really sorry to hear about your experience with the shop. I have exactly the place that will finish your car to your standards. I don't want to put their name out here so I will pm you the info. I know that they can/will do you right. Pm coming your way.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> Ok I am really sorry to hear about your experience with the shop. I have exactly the place that will finish your car to your standards. I don't want to put their name out here so I will pm you the info. I know that they can/will do you right. Pm coming your way.


That's good to hear that my sub will get installed correctly. Sorry to hear all of the issues you've been having. I highly doubt it is anything you did. It sounds like you went way above and beyond and the guys at the shop just turned around and gave you the royal bone. Personally, if it were me, I would be very publically broadcasting the name of that shop so noone else has a similar experience.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

Was this guy a friend of yours?.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

i'm sorry. i sound like a rambling idiot. wow. i'm simply that invested in this project emotionally and financially. i just wanted the work to be done

i find out if "your" sub is OK tomorrow James. I don't think he will mess with my gear....

no he is not a friend of mine however, yes there are some personal connections....


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## bgalaxy (Aug 18, 2006)

I hate hearing stories like this. I'm sorry to hear all the troubles you have had given all the prep work you did to get this project going. It sounds like you have the passion for this and trusted the wrong place. My opinion is, anything less then the agreed on work, warrants no further money and even a refund on what you have given them. If you were local, I would say bring the car over, and I would gather a group of guys to put in the work needed to deliver the car the way it was intended by guys who have a love for this industry. Not some jackholes looking to make that quick buck


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

for the record, i am not looking for any handouts simply suggestions on how to handle and quality shops in my area any LONG TERM members have had experience with. 

I appreciate the suggestions already offered. really, it means a lot...


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Pick the car up and have Todd Crowder of TC Audio in Benton Arkansas come pick your car up and build it for you.

TC Audio




todd131 said:


> I have to say for the short time I have been on this website I have been treated respectfully and EVERY transaction I have had here has gone extremely well.
> 
> I am going to give you a small back of background information about me prior to the intention of my post in an effort to gain some credibility.
> 
> ...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Cliffs notes please...


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^lol I know

Ok s at the suggestion of 3 people I set an appointment for Friday at a shop in new jersey. Guy was really nice on phone and seemed to genuinely feel bad.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

What a surprise as I will also be there on Friday. I'm in need of a remote start and some odds and ends from them. Hopefully this experience will be more on a positive side then your last.


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

Good luck, I think i know that place in Jerze, lol. I will PM you, let me know if i am right. If it is the same place then, that guy is awesome, always takes care of me. His customer service is first class


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm going first thing at 10am. It'd be fun to meet you there.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I can make 10:00 am, as I've taken off from business for the rest of this year. I will pm you my number just in case you have more questions...


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Very cool! I look forward to it.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

where is this installer in Jersey? i am just north of philly and am looking for a descent installer as well...


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## aznbo187 (Jun 21, 2011)

Please post some pictures after you get the work done


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

This sounds typical of every shop I have seen in decades. They talk a good game ...and if you want a simple 'boom and doom' system they may deliver. Your dealings is just a reinforcement of why no shop will ever touch my vehicles. I am the only one I trust for a reason.


>^..^<


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Catman said:


> This sounds typical of every shop I have seen in decades. They talk a good game ...and if you want a simple 'boom and doom' system they may deliver. Your dealings is just a reinforcement of why no shop will ever touch my vehicles. I am the only one I trust for a reason.
> 
> 
> >^..^<


I agree and it seems like its gotten worse over the years and not just with car audio. I no longer even let a shop rotate my tires. If I have to get new tires I remove the wheels and take them to the shop in the other car because in my experience many shops can't even get installing the wheels right and you end up with all kinds of issues. They bend the jacking points or smash the side skirts or destroy the under cladding or strip or break a stud. No one returns calls as promised. No one keeps their word. Huge promises are made to get your business and once they have it everything that was promised is forgotten. It's as it they're doing you a favor by working on your car.


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## Devourment (Jan 23, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I agree and it seems like its gotten worse over the years and not just with car audio. I no longer even let a shop rotate my tires. If I have to get new tires I remove the wheels and take them to the shop in the other car because in my experience many shops can't even get installing the wheels right and you end up with all kinds of issues. They bend the jacking points or smash the side skirts or destroy the under cladding or strip or break a stud. No one returns calls as promised. No one keeps their word. Huge promises are made to get your business and once they have it everything that was promised is forgotten. It's as it they're doing you a favor by working on your car.


There is nothing that pisses me off more then when someone says "We'll keep you updated. I'll call you" and they never do. Ever. Drives me freaking nuts. Seems like no one provides updates. 

Even when I PM people on here about inquiries on installs for me, or information about something I may or may not be interested in, or selling something, I always make sure I try keep good contact with them. It's common courtesy.


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## Devourment (Jan 23, 2010)

cajunner said:


> common courtesy is an uncommon commodity.
> 
> I know when I see "the way it's supposed to happen" I make sure and say something positive, because there's too much negative in the world already.
> 
> Of course, a mechanic getting a pat on the back for doing a rotation with some modicum of skill is stretching it, but they just think I'm a friendly guy...


I hear ya, lol. I'm much too friendly to get confrontational most of the time. I just hate being the individual causing a seen. Plus it's a easy decision for me. I'll never do business with that place again. So just smile and wave. 

However, in OP's case, yeah, I'd be totally pissed. That's far too long to go without a vehicle.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

everything you guys are saying is resonating with me. i am in sales so my word is all i have. referrals and references are my bread and butter and one gets those by following through every time. 

no he never once called to update me or anything. i had to stop by the shop any time i wanted an update and he thought he was cute by keeping it a secret because he wanted it to be a surprise. this whole experience has really soured me. i really trusted this guy. :sigh:

so i was totally cool up until last sunday. he told me on wednesday of last week that he would finish the car this weekend even if he had to do it in his spare time. he said that on sunday he would be tuning the car and he would text around noon for me to come by and he would show me how to use bitone with my laptop. at 2:30 i texted saying, Hey (persons name) are we on for today? no response for over a half hour. now remember it's 2 days before christmas and this is time i allocated to him. like all of you, i am a busy guy and my time is valuable. when he finally did respond it was hey man, just woke up (really?!) then another half hour passes by so i call his cell phone, no answer. at this point i don't have any more time for this on sunday because i still had a bunch of shopping to do as well. the text that broke the camels back was the WTF text, "it's been nine weeks and i have been overly patient with you and your shop, you are really ****ing up here."

then he tries to make me feel guilty because this is his day off and he was giong to "help me out."

i lost it. then come to find out it wasn't even ready to be tuned because he did not work on it saturday. ugh!

Anyways, thank you to all of you who have taken the time to respond to me. it really means a lot. 

is it inappropriate to mention name of shop on internet so others don't go there and have the same experience? i am getting my car back today unfinished and i would like to write a review on Yelp and then perhaps post that review here. i just don't know the rules regarding that....or if it would be unprofessional of me.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Well as a professional I encourage my clients to share their experience good or bad. It helps us as a team to improve areas in which we are weak, and maximize our strong areas. As a forum we possess a lot of input as to what is sold or shops that are frequented. We can only do this by sharing our real world experiences so that others in turn don't make this mistake. All I ask of you is that before you put the shop's name out there, is that you have proof of what has transpired. The reason I state this is people will call you out on this if they have dealt with said shop and have had great experiences. If you feel more comfortable, you can pm those who want to know starting with me of course.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

how can i possibly prove it? i'll happily take some photos and post them however, someone has to show me how or direct me to the instructions on how to do so.


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

todd131 said:


> is it inappropriate to mention name of shop on internet so others don't go there and have the same experience? i am getting my car back today unfinished and i would like to write a review on Yelp and then perhaps post that review here. i just don't know the rules regarding that....or if it would be unprofessional of me.


I'd flame the heck out of the shop and whoever you dealt with at the shop on here, on Yelp, on CitySearch and anywhere else you can think of. :z:


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

No need as far as that, if the shop gets on here to defend them self just be prepared. We try to keep it as neutral as possible as far as judgement. Pm me and we can talk more about helping you out on this matter.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I would like to know the name of the shop as well. I live in the same area as you and I know that car audio shops are hard to find.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

thanks coppertone! you have been so kind to me and it means a lot right now. i'm not sure i want to open that can of worms but i would like to hear your thoughts, pm on way. plus i am going to take them to small claims so i'm not sure how that plays in...

ok so this just keeps getting better! went to pick up car and it's a freaking mess. <1> he lost multiple panels that i had flocked prior to the project that took me a lot of time and effort <2> he ruined multiple other panels that were flocked because they were improperly cared for <3> no glove box <4> my amp boxes are gone (i had all of the audison boxes still <5> this is the best part, i left him a camera so he could take photos during the build and he put pictures of male genetalia on it. Who does that?! how creepy! i'm just appauled. plus i like chicks. LOL

anyways, the good <1> the sub box and buildouts for trunk are completely done and installed the amps just need to be mounted, wired and tuned <2> all of the wiring is installed for whole build except for from HU to bitone and bitone to btx2s. the job is almost done. 

so friday i go to another shop to see if they can help me.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

todd131 said:


> thanks coppertone! you have been so kind to me and it means a lot right now. i'm not sure i want to open that can of worms but i would like to hear your thoughts, pm on way. plus i am going to take them to small claims so i'm not sure how that plays in...
> 
> ok so this just keeps getting better! went to pick up car and it's a freaking mess. <1> he lost multiple panels that i had flocked prior to the project that took me a lot of time and effort <2> he ruined multiple other panels that were flocked because they were improperly cared for <3> no glove box <4> my amp boxes are gone (i had all of the audison boxes still <5> this is the best part, i left him a camera so he could take photos during the build and he put pictures of male genetalia on it. Who does that?! how creepy! i'm just appauled. plus i like chicks. LOL
> 
> ...


Holy, this just keeps getting worse. Just when I think they can't slink any lower, they do! I really feel for ya man.


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

Small claims + those pictures (hopefully with date stamp to prove possession) = win!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

DANG, and I don't curse are you kidding me. How could 9 weeks worth of work turn into such a nightmare. Well based upon my experiences and my knowledge of where I am sending you, you will be taken care of. I fully understand about not revealing their name until matters are handled. Just know that you weren't the only one who has experienced the pain of entrusting your car to an inept shop.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

thanks guys. as silly as it sounds all of you are really helping me feel better. it's sad to hear but good to know that i am not alone and this has happened to others. i couldn't believe it when he said he wasn't going to finish it. i'll admit i'm probably a high maintenance customer with lots of questions but i know people as enthusiastic about this as i have become don't walk through the door of shops every day. 

oh and i forgot now my heat doesn't work. my buddy is a subaru certifiec mechanic so he'll figure it out but geez!

i really want to post some photos, will somebody please tell me how?!


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## jking29 (Jan 6, 2008)

Upload photos to a web hosting service like Photobucket, then link them here.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Check out 12 Volt Daves in Pottsville Pa or KL Audio in Tower City Pa. Both are run by great people who have been in the biz for years.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

jking29 said:


> Upload photos to a web hosting service like Photobucket, then link them here.


got it. thanks! i suck at the interwebs!


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

This is unfreaking believable, i mean I would ask for my boxes and panels be replaced from the dealer. Thats crazy. Soo sorry to hear Todd. Not a way to end a year or start a new one. Good luck my friend.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

thanks Ham! i've learned things always work out the way they are supposed to and this will as well.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

after further review with my mechanic the <1> airbag light is on (this could cost a small fortune) <2> my spare tire does not remove from the buildout. it's the gift that keeps on giving. merry christmas, Todd!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

oh and he did not bolt my drivers seat in all the way so it was rocking while driving. this is a serious safety concern. i can bolt it back in no problem, but really?! you're giving my car back like this?!

fortunately it was a short drive home...


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

Holy crap man this is really unbelievable!
I feel so bad for you..


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

todd131 said:


> is it inappropriate to mention name of shop on internet so others don't go there and have the same experience?



First off, I'm very sorry, however i'm also very concerned. 

Laugh if you will but in my 5 years running fakeheadphones.com I had a section called 'Name and Shame' for this very purpose. 

I can't comment on DIYMA rules, however there is no need to hide what has happened. 

As for small claims court, I'm not sure how the law works in the U.S. but my friend was ripped off by a customer, proved to the judge that the evidence (email) had been falsified ... and my friend (the shop owner) still had to pay up. The judge basically alluded to to simple fact that the shop is always wrong! 

The fact that the shop never called you, and has been evasive is not good. 

I started fakeheadphones.com (offline at present) for that very reason, and spent many hours comparing counterfeits and genuine item side by side, pictures, Youtube clips, even publishing live chats with far east sites that admitted their products were counterfeit. 


... Sorry, but right now I'm, fuming over this. If you can come to some sort of arrangement then go for it, however either way .. exposure is the only route I would want you to take! *How would you feel if I sent you to a rip off merchant by omission?*

Sorry for the emotional response, like i said I had 5 years of dealing with the likes of such traders, and fakeheadphones.com was noted and backed up by Bose, Monster, Sennheiser, Audio Technica and other prestigious sites and manufacturers ... so i do have a little bit of experience exposing dishonest traders!

As I used to advice my visitors/readers; be brave, stand your ground because you've done nothing wrong. and when you've got your money back .. expose them, report them to the various manufacturers / websites .. ebay, paypal or whatever.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

BTW ... Subscribed


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

^^^^ said it all, this is freaking crazy. Shame them


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

captainscarlett said:


> BTW ... Subscribed


not what my intention was however, i don't believe you are the only one....:blush:


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

Todd just shared the pictures of his car with me and all I can say is WOW!
It looks even worse than he describes it it is truly unbelievable and I feel terrible for him.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

nuttin a bottle of jack daniels and a can of asswhoop wouldnt fix around here..

seriously sue the bastard for the entire value of the car aplus what it cost to fix it back right.

then let the judge decide the monetary damages.. once you get ur car back make his life a living hell thru legal channels.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

post the name of the shop.. and tell them you are going to do so on every car audio forum with pictures.. after you get car back.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

^^^^^^^^^
Todd is handling this the right way and when the te is right he will let everyone know the name of the shop that did this.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

It's such a train wreck I can't stop looking at the pictures!
I'm looking saying WTF???


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^ strange fascination huh?! (to put it in david bowies words....) LOL


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

Sorry about your current situation. Hopefully the new shop will clean up the current mess the yam bag left.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

$1700 in labor on a 5 day job....for an admittedly anal customer..thats is not where near enough money.

It sounds like you negotiated all of the profit for the store out of the job and he was trying to finish it during slow times in the shop and just never found the time.

So he cut his losses....he sounds like a terrible business man.

Did i hear there were pictures?


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

miniSQ said:


> $1700 in labor on a 5 day job....for an admittedly anal customer..thats is not where near enough money.
> 
> It sounds like you negotiated all of the profit for the store out of the job and he was trying to finish it during slow times in the shop and just never found the time.
> 
> ...


hi. good pionts and questions.

that wasn't for 5 days of labor it was going to take his shop 5 days because of the current status of personnel. additionally, in my original post i noted work he didn't do my pillars how we discussed, frankly, not even to what the hertz manual states. most of the work was already done. there was a ton of preperation put into this. i did everything i was capable of and when i post the log of the build i assure you all my weaknesses will come out. i'm ok with that.

yes, there are pictures and i may post them at some point soon.

edited for fat fingers and 3 vodka sodas. LOL


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

What an awful shop, among the worst I've heard of actually. It's unacceptable to be treated this way! Can't understand how these so called professionals can behave in this manner...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

If you're not the first one he's done this too, should be a much easier case. GL


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

todd131 said:


> thanks coppertone! you have been so kind to me and it means a lot right now. i'm not sure i want to open that can of worms but i would like to hear your thoughts, pm on way. plus i am going to take them to small claims so i'm not sure how that plays in...
> 
> ok so this just keeps getting better! went to pick up car and it's a freaking mess. <1> he lost multiple panels that i had flocked prior to the project that took me a lot of time and effort <2> he ruined multiple other panels that were flocked because they were improperly cared for <3> no glove box <4> my amp boxes are gone (i had all of the audison boxes still <5> this is the best part, i left him a camera so he could take photos during the build and he put pictures of male genetalia on it. Who does that?! how creepy! i'm just appauled. plus i like chicks. LOL
> 
> ...


Wow man i would have flipped my lid. Thats is so disrespectful of other peoples property.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

On the plus side, the airbag light should be a very easy fix. It was likely tripped by having the seat out of the car and the ignition on.


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## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

For the airbag issue - There are wiring harnesses under the seats that can be unplugged if the seats need to be removed. Check that they reconnected them.


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Even if you we're, "A Tough Customer" a good business should have been honest with you. 

I realize that I can't possibly please everyone, all of the time, but I try to always put myself in the customers shoes. Ultimately, if someone messed up, I would eat it and do my best to make it right. I realize that I might even get sued if I do the right thing and I am OK with that, because at the end of the day I have to live with myself.

I have to say that I really feel for you because the pictures on your camera are the truest indicator of what kind of ingrates you are dealing with here. In the end, I am sure that it will all work out and I am hoping that you will make some new "Trusted" friends along the way. I can tell that you are very thoughtful as you bought them lunch and etc..., but there was no reciprocation on their part.

Get an attorney and take them to court. I only hope that their insurance is up to date, because ultimately they will most likely be the one on the hook for monetary compensation.

Good Luck!!!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

AudioBob said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Even if you we're, "A Tough Customer" a good business should have been honest with you.
> 
> I realize that I can't possibly please everyone, all of the time, but I try to always put myself in the customers shoes. Ultimately, if someone messed up, I would eat it and do my best to make it right. I realize that I might even get sued if I do the right thing and I am OK with that, because at the end of the day I have to live with myself.
> 
> ...


thanks for your input and support! Very good feedback that made me think a little....

i think "tough customer" is maybe slightly off, but ok. i'm in sales, so if i step out of myself (as best i am able) and objectively look at the last 9 weeks my car was at the shop and how i acted, i'm not tough at all. in fact, i am a compassionate, kind, enthusiastic customer. where i may have been "tough" was prior to the installation i would stop by and shoot the **** with him bi-weekly. 

he would ask to see some of the gear he couldn't provide that i decided on when i purchased it. for example he wanted to check out the morel speakers his shop doesn't carry when i got them so at some points there was more frequency. the shop was also next to a local pub that's pretty fun so i would stop by shop at 15 minutes to six (closed at 6) and buy him drinks on occasion. it was my way of saying thank you for understanding my decisions regarding my equipment that you can't provide in addition to the questions you help me resolve. please recall from original post that i have purchased 1000s$ in equipment there. 

now i feel comfortable just asking you guys. thanks for that! 

so i did get "tough" in the last week, i had had enough of the games and the empty promises. 

i am the first to admit i have my flaws, i strive every day to become a better person, its hard to live to those standards. i'm very hard on myself. but in this situation i was pretty cool. 

i'm sure not perfect tho. certainly not once my frustrations set in. they were justified frustrations though based on the responses of folks here, including you i think. 

i've learned a lot from this experience and i believe i will learn more soon. this is going to be a growing experience for me so at least i have that to look forward to! as well as hopefully scheduling something with a shop again. i'll admit it will be hard to trust another one....seems like there are a lot of shady business out there. i know there must be some good ones as well.


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

I don't want you to think that I thought that you were a tough customer. I think that you seem very reasonable to me. Maybe I took some of your self directed comments when you were asking questions that way. You should be angry, but you have handled yourself very well. You have not even named the shop and I find that to speak of your character.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^ thank you! there are a couple people helping me out via PM's who have asked and i have not told them either. 

i actually liked your post because i did some self reflection. so it's good.

i know a couple of other shop owners have posted and i thank you for that however, i would really enjoy hearing some more constructive criticism here. 

it's kind of funny the internet right now for me is like therapeutic. LOL kidding but not if you know what i mean!


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

The owner got your deposit and spent it.
His installers are paid by the job and dont want to touch it for what he wants to pay them because they can do simple fast jobs to make more money day by day.Which means he would have to do the work personally and doesnt have the skills or the time.
He could be addicted to drugs or alcohol.
The shop could be having money problems.

Its got to be one or ALL of the above.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^prolly true.

loading up car right now and heading to new shop. it's a bit of a drive but i am hoping it's going to be worth it!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

what a totally different experience and that was our first meeting. this guy made me feel like it was my project, not his. he already started setting expectations and we worked up a loose quote. i am going back in a week so that another guy at the shop can look at the car to see if he is in the right ball park. 

it's going to be ridiculously expensive to fix this...oh well. i'm all in now.


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

Good luck, hope these guys get it right.


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

DAMNN todd, good luck buddy, in for pics of fresly, properly done equipment in your max.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

It's going to take an audiogeek to help an audiogeek. 

I think you're in the right place, but I may be a little biased. lol, just a little. 

I hope I didn't scare you too much when you stopped by, and I think reading through this thread has given me even more insight into what you've been through thus far. I'm certain that we can help you. It's never easy to assume a large project when it's partially completed by another shop, but I know we're up to the challenge. 

I'm going to PM you my personal contact info later this evening, if you have any questions for me, or want to go over anything in further detail, feel free to give me a yell anytime. 

Colin


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

WRX/Z28 said:


> It's going to take an audiogeek to help an audiogeek.
> 
> I think you're in the right place, but I may be a little biased. lol, just a little.
> 
> ...


Nice. I don't know anything about your business, but this post leads me to believe you'll be taking care of business.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Jimi77 said:


> Nice. I don't know anything about your business, but this post leads me to believe you'll be taking care of business.


My thoughts exactly. I think you found one of the good shops here man. I sure hope they give you what you crave after all you have been through.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Any updates on this ?


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

I was just wondering about this one too earlier today actually. Hopefully he's bopping to some sweet tunes by now


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## Jimi77 (Jul 4, 2005)

james2266 said:


> I was just wondering about this one too earlier today actually. Hopefully he's bopping to some sweet tunes by now


Agreed. Update required.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I talked to him over the weekend and he had his secon appointment with the installer and was getting a estimate. He said he was very impressed with them. I don't know when he is dropping the car off but no work has been done yet.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Todd and I have been in contact since then and we're going to do the job. Due to the Philadelphia International Auto show being the 19th through the 27th (we'll be exhibiting 6 cars this year), we decided on the first week of February for a start date. We're shooting for one week, but as these larger projects always work out, they sometimes run over. I'm certain he'll have tunes up and running by mid/late 2nd week of february. 

The gear itself is all top notch, and I personally can't wait to tune using the Bit One. I've used almost everything but the Bit One so far, PXA-H701, Imprint, MS8, 360.1-2-3, Cleansweep, active via the deck, audiocontrol stuff. The Bit One piece looked like a pretty nice setup. 

Todd's been through a lot with the car, but we're going to restore his faith in the "Car Audio Shop".


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

WRX/Z28 maybe you should make or send photos to tod so a proper work log can be made?

(sorry if this comment are out of bounds or just plain silly)


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

hey guys! all is good. i spoke with wrx/z28 and another one of the installers at the shop. i feel confident that they can finish this build to the specs i am looking for in a timely manner. they took a lot of time with me on saturday to go through my car and develop a plan to complete the work. i was treated professionally and they showed some empathy for my current situation. i feel like they are genuinely excited about my project which is something that i haven't felt at all since i started this from anyone except myself (my friends and coworkers all think i'm nuts for doing this). The cost is significant however, i trust them and at this point that is very important to me. i am hoping it doesn't take them quite as long as expected.  

i can't wait to hear this in a few short weeks. i am going on a trip to boston the first week of February and i am dropping my car off prior to leaving. once the shop gets into the vehicle for a few hours they should have a good idea of when they can finish the job by. i am crossing my fingers that when i return that thursday it will be done. if it takes a few more days, i will understand.

thanks again to everyone for the interest, support, direction, and being cool to me.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Glad you found a decent shop


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^ i believe i did, thank you! the best part about it was that i felt no pressure. in fact, when i spent some time in the showroom while they worked out how much time they felt it may take i overheard multiple conversations that the sales people were having with current and prospective customers. my confidence increased when i overheard, "i encourage you to shop around. you'll find we are competitively priced however, here's what you are going to get from our shop....." selling the value of the expertise of the shop in an effort to win this customers business on a remote starter. That resonated with me. that is only one example of the positive environment i witnessed them creating with their customer base. i am confident i will be a satisfied customer of theirs soon.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

I like this thread now.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

As do I....glad things are working out for you.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

ok. i realized on saturday that i would be bringing my car to the new shop thursday which is now only a mere 3 days away. i'm so close. 

Additionally, i went to auto show and these guys happened to have a booth and i have to say, i was amazed at how nice the work they do is. they had a beamer that was done and it was some of the most beautiful work i've ever seen. 

anyways, i leave for Boston this friday for business for 6 days (2 are personal any recommendations?!) and there is a chance, maybe slim that it may be close to being done by the end of next week or basically upon my return.


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

Todd, this is great news. Glad to see this thing turning around for you. Keep us posted on the outcome. Have fun in Boston!!! I will be there for businees end of Feb.

Ham.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

nice ham. thanks!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

todd131 said:


> ok. i realized on saturday that i would be bringing my car to the new shop thursday which is now only a mere 3 days away. i'm so close.
> 
> Additionally, i went to auto show and these guys happened to have a booth and i have to say, i was amazed at how nice the work they do is. they had a beamer that was done and it was some of the most beautiful work i've ever seen.
> 
> anyways, i leave for Boston this friday for business for 6 days (2 are personal any recommendations?!) and there is a chance, maybe slim that it may be close to being done by the end of next week or basically upon my return.


Gotta stop by the Sam Adams Brewery... oh and probably halfway there is SBC (Southport Brewing Company) in connecticut. They have great food and beer. Well worth the 5 mins off 95


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

So I'm dropping car off tomorrow! Holy crap. Soon I will get to hear the gear that I spent 2 years time purchasing/finding/researching built to the specs I originally asked for. I have no doubt that its going to be perfect. Thanks so much!


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

As someone who takes pride in working at a quality shop, I'm stoked to see that you are typing as if you are excited to take your vehicle to another quality brick and mortar shop. We do still exist !!!! and the good ones aren't going anywhere!

I really hope you get the results that you are looking for(ending sentence with preposition). Keep in mind, you will need to let the system have a break-in period and future tuning will be required. The shop can only do so much until you schedule a re-tune(which may be at cost) or until you are ready to retune it yourself and assume them free of "blatent wrong crossover liability". I hope that makes sense.

But absolutely, I am glad you restored your trust in taking your vehicle to a retailer who really cares about the quality of their work. again, I am only assuming since I don't personally know them, but as a respected member here, open to the public, that they will be proud enough to show the nightmare they were tortured with, and the glory they came out with at the fair price to which you agreed.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Is it finished yet?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

RandyJ75 said:


> Is it finished yet?


Have Patience. Todd dropped the car off to us yesterday for the build to start Monday. We have a plan in place and we're aiming for the end of the week for it to be finished. As always with big builds, it may run a little long, but not more than a few extra days. 

Thanks guys...


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Gotta stop by the Sam Adams Brewery... oh and probably halfway there is SBC (Southport Brewing Company) in connecticut. They have great food and beer. Well worth the 5 mins off 95


Just did Sam Adams brewery tour with trolley ride to Doyle's. holy crap, funniest trolley ride. Ever! Full dj booth, lighting, bubble machine, strip poles, etc. great time. Good suggestion wrx/z28!


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Show us some shots after the build!

I think it's great how members from here stepped up to help you with your system.


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## rdubbs (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm also excited to see how this turns out  Make sure you post the build log when you get the chance!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

1996blackmax said:


> Show us some shots after the build!
> 
> I think it's great how members from here stepped up to help you with your system.


It's exactly what I needed to happen. I have no doubts that coppertone sent me in the proper direction. I'm fortunate that folks on this site cared about me and my project.


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## K-Mike (Sep 17, 2012)

Subscribed, can't wait to see how this turns out


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Subscribed.


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## audiobaun (Jun 8, 2011)

Wow! Total disappointment at the beginning..Though, it seems that it is going to finally turn out with some real honest professional car audio people who actually give a crap about people in general,and theyre love for car audio,in which has become quite rare these days.2 years,and finally, a real system install that will be completed by professionals.I myself am excited to hear, and see the final outcome of the system.Im Tuned in !!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Not only do I believe i found a great shop with people who know how to treat people they take a lot of pride in what they do; the folks on this site who have supported me and are supporting my build by subscribing to the thread makes me feel awesome. My emotion is tied to this project. Thanks to all who are interested and who care.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

todd131 said:


> Not only do I believe i found a great shop with people who know how to treat people they take a lot of pride in what they do; the folks on this site who have supported me and are supporting my build by subscribing to the thread makes me feel awesome. My emotion is tied to this project. Thanks to all who are interested and who care.


I hope it works out great. A few years ago I paid a shop to completely ruin my install, and thus caused me to go DIY. It's now an enjoyable hobby for me. Hopefully you'll get a quality install you can enjoy and be proud of for many years.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Saw my car today. What a concept; invite the customer to view ones property and the progress made on it.....


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

sounds like you're pleased so far


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I've seen pictures...impressive work so far with lots of attention to detail.
Quality work takes time


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## fast4door (Aug 2, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> I agree and it seems like its gotten worse over the years and not just with car audio. I no longer even let a shop rotate my tires. If I have to get new tires I remove the wheels and take them to the shop in the other car because in my experience many shops can't even get installing the wheels right and you end up with all kinds of issues. They bend the jacking points or smash the side skirts or destroy the under cladding or strip or break a stud. No one returns calls as promised. No one keeps their word. Huge promises are made to get your business and once they have it everything that was promised is forgotten. It's as it they're doing you a favor by working on your car.


1000%%%%%% agreed !!!!!!!


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I've seen pictures of the progress. This is going to be a really nice install.
Todd picks his car up on Saturday!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

3 days!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

It's like Christmas, only louder lol..


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

keep us posted! i can't wait to see the results!!!! i'd also love to see the before pics of the work done by the bad shop.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd love to know who the bad shop was.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^lol. Not happening.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

todd131 said:


> ^lol. Not happening.


Why not? You think they're trolling the board in case you say something? Do you want someone else to have the same experience? Stop being a ***** and help the board out.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> Why not? You think they're trolling the board in case you say something? Do you want someone else to have the same experience? Stop being a ***** and help the board out.


I agree. Just post your experience.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Guys, ease up on knowing which was the bad shop. I understand where you're thinking about protecting other people, but if Todd doesn't want to reveal the name, you have to respect that. I think anyone that decides to choose a shop in NJ already knows where they can go for quality work.  

Let's keep everything positive, and avoid trash talking.


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## audiobaun (Jun 8, 2011)

Man, Just a couple more days..It sounds like you should be very pleased with the finished install.And waiting to get everything in,has got to make you feel at ease as well.I cant wait to hear about the Pick Up on Sat.myself!


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Why not? You think they're trolling the board in case you say something? Do you want someone else to have the same experience? Stop being a ***** and help the board out.


If taking them to court and not saying the name of the shop because I don't know how it will turn out makes me a ***** then so be it. 

What if I have to sign something when this is all over? I know you simply want quid pro quo but I can't do it now. Sorry. Dood, it's killing me not to say anything. I hope you understand.

Edit: I want to tell the whole world, write reviews, go to BBB etc.


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm glad to hear you are taking them to court. too many shops get away with treating customers like crap


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

todd131 said:


> If taking them to court and not saying the name of the shop because I don't know how it will turn out makes me a ***** then so be it.
> 
> What if I have to sign something when this is all over? I know you simply want quid pro quo but I can't do it now. Sorry. Dood, it's killing me not to say anything. I hope you understand.
> 
> Edit: I want to tell the whole world, write reviews, go to BBB etc.


Well thats another story. Try firing someone and then not being able to tell any of your coworkers why because they are suing you.
Can't even have a meeting with the unemployment rep because of the liability.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

oh man todd got more bad news today. he just found out the mids installed in his kick panels were damaged by the other shop. I feel so bad for this poor guy. on top of everything his 3500$ speakers are damaged.

I edited this post because I mis spoke about details that were speculation on my part.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

How did they not notice this before? Did they not rewire them during the install? If they rewired them wouldn't they have had to remove them and noticed these issues BEFORE tuning? 

Something seems off here.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

*im speculating on when and how they figured it out.*
I know the mids were in finished kick panels for all I know they could have figured it out while rewiring them.


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## TheBlindMan (Feb 7, 2013)

What a nightmare.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

WOW That's a shame.

I hope he has a good lawyer.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

deleted


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

jel847 said:


> *im speculating on when and how they figured it out.*
> I know the mids were in finished kick panels for all I know they could have figured it out while rewiring them.


Damn. Dude can't catch a break.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

the prices they advertise as "weekly specials" are so cheap the would scare me instantly. Although I'm sure the "$199.99 VSS4000" is probably a refurbished unit, since that's a Best Buy product only, unless it's a Bvss4000 refurb.
We could take a picture of every high end car that comes into our shops and let them flash on our website every few seconds....but who cares. 99% of the cars that come into our shop are not $120,000+ cars. Yes, there's at least one in the garage almost every day, but that's not the bread'n'butter. It's the average guy with a new Kia, Honda, '96 Caprice, '57 BelAir, or any year F-150 that are really where we are providing what people want.

The one thing I will tout about an install, the integrity is not about what it looks like, it's the quality of the wiring and install behind the "beauty panels." But yes, a trim panel should actually fit and look good if the customer is dropping a fair wage on it.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

miniSQ said:


> :: High End Car Stereo, Philadelphia, PA ::
> 
> only audison dealer in philly...


Please don't make assumptions. Whether that shop is good or not, I have absolutely no clue, but it is not involved in this subject.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

If that shop is not involved in this vehicle, I vote that the post is completely deleted and absconded of having any relations.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

D-Bass said:


> the prices they advertise as "weekly specials" are so cheap the would scare me instantly. Although I'm sure the "$199.99 VSS4000" is probably a refurbished unit, since that's a Best Buy product only, unless it's a Bvss4000 refurb.
> We could take a picture of every high end car that comes into our shops and let them flash on our website every few seconds....but who cares. 99% of the cars that come into our shop are not $120,000+ cars. Yes, there's at least one in the garage almost every day, but that's not the bread'n'butter. It's the average guy with a new Kia, Honda, '96 Caprice, '57 BelAir, or any year F-150 that are really where we are providing what people want.
> The one thing I will tout about an install, the integrity is not about what it looks like, it's the quality of the wiring and install behind the "beauty panels." But yes, a trim panel should actually fit and look good if the customer is dropping a fair wage on it.


I was going to say the same. I just looked through a good amount of the installs and didn't see one wiring pick at all. Given enough time I could make a great looking panel. Would it fit? Better than some of the ones I saw on there.
I also didnt notice how many f150 trucks are on the road until until I picked one a couple weeks ago.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

D-Bass said:


> If that shop is not involved in this vehicle, I vote that the post is completely deleted and absconded of having any relations.


Second that also. Remove it anyway. Hell the op didn't want to put them out there in the first place because of legal issues and if by some chance he can be linked to this thread in court then it would snowball I'm sure.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

So yea my drivers are all jacked. 1 is a newer version ml1600 the other is an old school ml1600 from the briefcase set. They butchered the terminal. Ill post pics

Please stop speculating about shops. Any assumptions should be modded out. Imo


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

So they messed up your drivers then swapped them out for whatever they had laying around? That's garbage.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

RandyJ75 said:


> Dammit, I was going to go there for my install..They offer a senior citizens discount





quality_sound said:


> SO they messed up your drivers then swapped them out for whatever they had laying around? That's garbage.


No. I'm not sure why this discussion is even happening without my post.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

miniSQ said:


> :: High End Car Stereo, Philadelphia, PA ::
> 
> only audison dealer in philly...


Whoever posted this should delete it. They are absolutely not the only audison dealer in the Philadelphia area. He never said they where in philly and I believe he bought his amps someplace else. Philly is big cuz and obviously you've never been there.
Poor todd is sick to his stomach over this he doesn't need this ******** on top of everything else that has/is happening.

I have seen pictures of his install and it looks amazing. His pillars are sick! His trunk is full of those beautiful blue amps...

One good thing is he was going to use double midbass's so he still has fully functioning midbass's in his doors.

Todd keep your chin up, it will work out. You've been very patient so far.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

Todd needs a group hug!


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...b-hertz-ml600-old-school-briefcase-style.html


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> How did they not notice this before? Did they not rewire them during the install? If they rewired them wouldn't they have had to remove them and noticed these issues BEFORE tuning?
> 
> Something seems off here.


Please refrain from jumping to conclusions. It was rough enough having to deliver that news, it's even rougher having a finger pointed in your direction about it... (Todd knows this did not happen on our watch)



jel847 said:


> *im speculating on when and how they figured it out.*
> I know the mids were in finished kick panels for all I know they could have figured it out while rewiring them.


The midbass were already installed/wired when the car came to us. It was probably the only area we thought we wouldn't have to touch. The wires for the midbass were already at the trunk of the car too. 



jel847 said:


> Whoever posted this should delete it. They are absolutely not the only audison dealer in the Philadelphia area. He never said they where in philly and I believe he bought his amps someplace else. Philly is big cuz and obviously you've never been there.
> Poor todd is sick to his stomach over this he doesn't need this ******** on top of everything else that has/is happening.
> 
> I have seen pictures of his install and it looks amazing. His pillars are sick! His trunk is full of those beautiful blue amps...
> ...


Agreed. I can tell that it's not the implicated shops work. Please stop with the negativity about the original shop. Lets focus on how awesome Todd's car is turning out.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I can't wait until this build is done, and Todd is smiling once again. Soon my friend, very soon.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Coppertone said:


> I can't wait until this build is done, and Todd is smiling once again. Soon my friend, very soon.


Extremely soon.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I've seen pictures... Very impressive work so far!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

They do impressive work if not I would not have suggested them.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

That did not happen at second shop. They had no reason to be in doors.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)




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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

^^^Wooooooowwwww... Another reason I don't solder speaker wires. Even when I do it looks better than that. That's amateur right there.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)




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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> ^^^Wooooooowwwww... Another reason I don't solder speaker wires. Even when I do it looks better than that. That's amateur right there.


I solder EVERYTHING, but then again I do it for a living. That looks like a monkey with a lit cig did it.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm worse than a retarded Bonobo monkey during mating season and I could make it look better than that.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> I'm worse than a retarded Bonobo monkey during mating season and I could make it look better than that.


A good part of that just went into the long term storage.


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

just realized how big those band speakers or what you call them are...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

chad said:


> A good part of that just went into the long term storage.


I can't let you get ALL the good one-liners, Chad.


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## noop (Jan 18, 2009)

Wow, I feel for you Todd, I've been through something similar to this.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> ^^^Wooooooowwwww... Another reason I don't solder speaker wires. Even when I do it looks better than that. That's amateur right there.


more than amateur, that is just unskilled completely. you dont need to solder push-on spades in the first place, but if you do. its really not that hard, you can have to use 100 watt iron and melt the damn basket, lol.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Noobdelux said:


> just realized how big those band speakers or what you call them are...


Ribbons


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

can we have an updated equipment list?


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Audison vrx 2.400 running at 2ohm 4 hertz ml1600 mid bass drivers (2 were damaged so there are only 2 for now)
Audison vrx 4.300 2 channels running hertz ml280 tweets and 2 channels running hertz ml500r midrange
Audison vrx 1.500 running at 2 ohm 2 hertz Mille ml2500 subs
All channels have btx2 balanced line drivers. 
I used Audison connection Sonus cable except for balanced lines
Everything is active through bit one. 

I think that's everything.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

todd131 said:


> Audison vrx 2.400 running at 2ohm 4 hertz ml1600 mid bass drivers (2 were damaged so there are only 2 for now)
> Audison vrx 4.300 2 channels running hertz ml280 tweets and 2 channels running hertz ml500r midrange
> Audison vrx 1.500 running at 2 ohm 2 hertz Mille ml2500 subs
> All channels have btx2 balanced line drivers.
> ...


Wow, nice equipment list once everything is working that is. I would be pissed if I were you and I am sure you are. Wish I was close enough to hear it. I have never had the luxury of hearing those ribbon midranges and even moreso the VRx Audison line. I have always wondered how much better sounding that line is than my current LRx line. I really wanted to pick up a VRx 500.1 chromie that was up on a local fs site a while back. That would have complicated things even further and deep down I have a feeling the Mosconi AS 200.4 would be more to my liking on midbass and sub. Haven't been able to hear that yet either although the Zero 1 had to be the most powerful clean sub amp I have heard to date. I have not heard much however so that might not be saying much:shrug:


----------



## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

todd131 said:


> Audison vrx 2.400 running at 2ohm 4 hertz ml1600 mid bass drivers (2 were damaged so there are only 2 for now)
> Audison vrx 4.300 2 channels running hertz ml280 tweets and 2 channels running hertz ml500r midrange
> Audison vrx 1.500 running at 2 ohm 2 hertz Mille ml2500 subs
> All channels have btx2 balanced line drivers.
> ...


awesome list... maybe i'll get to hear it sometime when i drive down that way!!


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

Seems to me you would have a perfect case for a few things.

1. Charge for the time they held your vehicle. Some amount of dollars per day, especially beyond the originally stated time.
2. All moneys paid
3. Moneys for your time to and from the shop checking on status and attempting to advance completion of the project.

It would be a pain in the ass but at the end you'd have some satisfaction and they'd end up paying for their terrible cs.

If you haven't already done so (and I only read through the first page of the thread) I would post a review of the shop on every social media site I could. Yelp for sure. DIYMA, Car Audio, even Craigslist and related. You've probably done so already, or maybe you've already gotten taken care of, but if not... time to get even ;D


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

Just read the rest of the thread... good to see you are getting things setup. How's the build going?

Any recompense from the original shop?


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Oh man.....the soldering (if you can even call it that) on those push terminals. Why?
Makes baby Jesus cry even when he's riding a t-rex. Damn.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

I have a question about your equipment choice. Do you really need a line driver before the Bit One?
The reason I ask is that I was going to use a line driver before my MS-8, but was told I should not do that. My HU is a DD DVD w/ 4 volt out puts, but I have read that they are not really 4 volts; then I read that the amp does not need more then 2 volts.

Any insight?


----------



## JimHTP (Nov 12, 2012)

i always solder terminals since I can never seem to find disconnects that fit oversized speaker wiring when I need them...but after seeing this I think I may stop the soldering.

I imagine they must have let a new guy try to do it inside the car instead of making a pigtail and doing it outside the vehicle...how else can you explain that ****ty of a job? I was doing this at 16 with a 5 dollar iron and I never ****ed anything up that bad.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

JimHTP said:


> i always solder terminals since I can never seem to find disconnects that fit oversized speaker wiring when I need them...but after seeing this I think I may stop the soldering.
> 
> I imagine they must have let a new guy try to do it inside the car instead of making a pigtail and doing it outside the vehicle...how else can you explain that ****ty of a job? I was doing this at 16 with a 5 dollar iron and I never ****ed anything up that bad.


there is absolutely no excuse.
even if you had no thumbs, no experience and just read the instructions in a how to book you couldn't make a mess that bad.
they had to be high or drunk..had to be right after lunch on a Friday!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

goodstuff said:


> Oh man.....the soldering (if you can even call it that) on those push terminals. Why?
> Makes baby Jesus cry even when he's riding a t-rex. Damn.





> ^^^Wooooooowwwww... Another reason I don't solder speaker wires. Even when I do it looks better than that.* That's amateur right there.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> The correct expression, should be "That's professional" - meaning, expressly for money !
> ...


----------



## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

RandyJ75 said:


> I have a question about your equipment choice. Do you really need a line driver before the Bit One?
> The reason I ask is that I was going to use a line driver before my MS-8, but was told I should not do that. My HU is a DD DVD w/ 4 volt out puts, but I have read that they are not really 4 volts; then I read that the amp does not need more then 2 volts.
> 
> Any insight?


No you don't. They are after.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

todd131 said:


> No you don't. They are after.


OK Todd, why do you need a line driver after the Bit One? How many volts does the Bit One put out? I will be running Audison amps in my setup (Lrx 6.9 & Lrx 1.1K), and would like to know how many volts I should be giving them.
How many volts do the Audison Line Drivers put out? Or are they adjustable?

Thanks for your help. 

Randy


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

RandyJ75 said:


> OK Todd, why do you need a line driver after the Bit One? How many volts does the Bit One put out? I will be running Audison amps in my setup (Lrx 6.9 & Lrx 1.1K), and would like to know how many volts I should be giving them.
> How many volts do the Audison Line Drivers put out? Or are they adjustable?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> ...



You don't NEED to put a line driver anywhere. Todd's system is all about eliminating noise and being the absolute best it can be. The BTX's are not simply line drivers, they are balanced line drivers. Here's a pretty good explanation of Balanced Line Drivers (Balanced Line Drivers ) These pieces and the signal level and type produced are all about eliminating electrical noise, and let me tell you, this car has ABSOLUTELY 0. We currently have his gains set at the minimum, and initial impressions are that they won't need to go up unless channel output needs to be further matched beyond what the bit one can do. 

The VRX amps are capable of taking a balanced line input, so these pieces are sending a true balanced signal directly into his amps with no conversion back to unbalanced. 


All that being said, my only question is this, why does it seem like you are looking to 2nd guess the choice of running them? I may be taking your post out of context, but through the interweb (obviously a horrible method for conveying tone) i'm sensing some "bad juju". lol. :laugh:

In your case w/ the MS8, from my experience with the piece, the output is no different than a high end deck's pre-outs. Using a line driver AFTER the MS8 wouldn't be a bad thing (unless it was counterproductive and actually added electrical noise), although it may be overkill. I really wouldn't add an unbalanced line driver unless I really felt that there was a noise issue, or a signal level issue in the setup.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

WRX/Z28 said:


> All that being said, my only question is this, why does it seem like you are looking to 2nd guess the choice of running them? I may be taking your post out of context, but through the interweb (obviously a horrible method for conveying tone) i'm sensing some "bad juju". lol. :laugh:


Colin, this is exactly why I told Todd not to post the build pics until the car was complete. Everyone would be telling him what they would have done different and have him second guessing himself.

But in this balanced line driver case I think it's a legitimate question. I was curios myself so thanks for the explanation!


----------



## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

WRX/Z28 said:


> All that being said, my only question is this, why does it seem like you are looking to 2nd guess the choice of running them? I may be taking your post out of context, but through the interweb (obviously a horrible method for conveying tone) i'm sensing some "bad juju". lol. :laugh:


Hold on here dude, I am just tiring to learn something, not pee in any ones Cheerios. I was not second guessing there use at all, just tiring to see if I should use something similar for my build. I have not seen the balanced line drivers before, and until your post, did not know what they did.

Thanks for the link, I guess.

Randy


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

RandyJ75 said:


> Hold on here dude, I am just tiring to learn something, not pee in any ones Cheerios. I was not second guessing there use at all, just tiring to see if I should use something similar for my build. I have not seen the balanced line drivers before, and until your post, did not know what they did.
> 
> Thanks for the link, I guess.
> 
> Randy


Sorry if I jumped to conclusions. As I said, the internet masks tone. If it was an honest question, then my apologies. 

From what I can recall, the LRX do not have balanced in capability like the VRX do, so unless you plan on changing amps, I don't think you can go the BTX route.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Sorry* if *I jumped to conclusions. As I said, the internet masks tone. If it was an honest question, then my apologies.
> 
> From what I can recall, the LRX do not have balanced in capability like the VRX do, so unless you plan on changing amps, I don't think you can go the BTX route.


"IF"??? You obliviously did. Why I have no idea, as after rereading my posts several times, I don't see how anyone could think that.

Perhaps you should read the quotes in your sig and think about what they mean.

Randy


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## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

I just want to see the finished project already.


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## noop (Jan 18, 2009)

THEDUKE said:


> I just want to see the finished project already.


x2 :snacks:


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

RandyJ75 said:


> "IF"??? You obliviously did. Why I have no idea, as after rereading my posts several times, I don't see how anyone could think that.
> 
> Perhaps you should read the quotes in your sig and think about what they mean.
> 
> Randy


Wow. Maybe you need to re-read this one, and what it's in response to. 

P.S. I don't think I was oblivious at any time...


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

THEDUKE said:


> I just want to see the finished project already.





noop said:


> x2 :snacks:


There are some pics about halfway down page 6. 

This was never supposed to be a super flashy build, we were more focused on SQ and a utilitarian clean build. We'll get some better pics up soon. There are some interior pieces that were still missing/wrong color from the original shop that Todd is still trying to replace.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

WRX/Z28 said:


> This was never supposed to be a super flashy build, we were more focused on SQ and a utilitarian clean build.



LOL


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

I thought those were pictures from the original built.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

chad said:


> LOL


What? We had to get them on axis, and those things are in your face no matter what we did with them. 

The trunk is still simple carpeted wood panels. Simple but effective...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Yall don't worry about that side window defroster vent?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

chad said:


> Yall don't worry about that side window defroster vent?


Small price to pay for on axis ribbon mid A-pillars...


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

I think everyone is happy you are getting help out of the bad situation you were put into. First and foremost.

As to the comments on the current build, well, I guess you have to remember what this forum is all about, which in general is feedback/questions/help/etc on builds.

I look at the current situation and (with my lesser experience than most) I see a difficult situation. Ie the ribbons.

Your options are certainly limited in placement I guess (like I say I have limited knowledge) but the "lols" are an easier way of saying "they don't look good in their current location". You say it's a small price to pay, but after all you've gone through maybe you are willing to settle where you wouldn't normally.

Frankly, and I say this with all good intentions, those ribbons look terrible where they are and I'd do everything I could to find a better less visible location or even consider an alternative. They are a huge eye sore and are akin to putting a huge tail on the back of your car.

Just trying to point out the painful obvious so that down the road you won't have regrets you might not envision now.


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

I think everyone is happy you are getting help out of the bad situation you were put into. First and foremost.

As to the comments on the current build, well, I guess you have to remember what this forum is all about, which in general is feedback/questions/help/etc on builds.

I look at the current situation and (with my lesser experience than most) I see a difficult situation. Ie the ribbons.

Your options are certainly limited in placement I guess (like I say I have limited knowledge) but the "lols" are an easier way of saying "they don't look good in their current location". You say it's a small price to pay, but after all you've gone through maybe you are willing to settle where you wouldn't normally.

Frankly, and I say this with all good intentions, those ribbons look terrible where they are and I'd do everything I could to find a better less visible location or even consider an alternative. They are a huge eye sore and are akin to putting a huge tail on the back of your car.

Just trying to point out the painful obvious so that down the road you won't have regrets you might not envision now.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Small price to pay for on axis ribbon mid A-pillars...


Says the person in the crosswalk you can't see because your window is fogged to ****.... 

NOT utilitarian.

Don't get me wrong, I'm stoked that this is getting solved and you are a wonderful person for stepping up to the plate.... Kudos.

I just would not go so far as to call it Subtle or Utilitarian even if something hidden by the trunk lid is carpeted.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

This install is exactly what Todd wanted, Todd was the customer. If Todd's happy that's all that really matters.
I think that some of the criticizem is rude especially after all the guy has been through. He finally gets his car back on all ou can do is find fault with it. Don't bother asking how it sounds or if he's happy or maybe been congratulate him...


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

WRX/Z28 said:


> What? We had to get them on axis, and those things are in your face no matter what we did with them.
> 
> The trunk is still simple carpeted wood panels. Simple but effective...


Did you try in the upper door location? I've heard a nice install with them there... Horizontal axis towards the passenger's ears with a small toe towards on-axis. 

Kelvin


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

chad said:


> Says the person in the crosswalk you can't see because your window is fogged to ****....
> 
> NOT utilitarian.
> 
> ...


LOL. If your window is that fogged, and you can't wipe it with your elbow enough to see a person in a crosswalk while going normal turning speed... actually, nevermind. You're reaching there... 

The a-pillars are the only part of the setup that you can't ignore, and as much as they're in your face, they really don't block that much of your view when you see them in person, and the defroster vents are NOT completely obscured they actually still function. 

My point was that Todd's goals of having dash/a-pillar mounted mid/tweeter combination was acheived in the simplest manner we could devise. We remedied the problem where Todd's spare tire could not be removed due to the previous installation, and now the spare can come out and be used with very little effort and no tools required. . We mounted amps and processors under seats and in a very simple trunk setup. We tucked his bit one display in the factory ash tray location. 

There is no painted fiberglass anywhere in this install, it's all carpet and wood save for the A-pillars and kick panels. No lighting, no mirrors, no plexiglass, no bling or flash, nothing that didn't need to be added to acheive the goal. It's simple and effective for getting the speakers where he wanted them and still keeping the car completely usable and serviceable. We even added quick disconnects into his a-pillars so they can easily be removed. We added a simple cover to all the electronics under his seat to keep them protected from wet feet (this wasn't even asked for, but we knew it was needed). 



subwoofery said:


> Did you try in the upper door location? I've heard a nice install with them there... Horizontal axis towards the passenger's ears with a small toe towards on-axis.
> 
> Kelvin


No we didn't because it wasn't what the customer requested. He wanted them high up on the dash/a-pillar location. It was the next best location IMO to the kick panel area (which was already taken up by midbass drivers). 

FWIW, we were given these examples to replicate. 

Audio Tekhnika : Your Professional Audio Consultant

http://consultant.audiotekhnika.com/...ar_name=Toyota Yariz MLK 3 VRX&type=Elegance type 




Listen guys, i'm all for constructive criticism, but this is getting ridiculous. 

We put the pics up there so everyone could see what we did to acheive Todd's goals, not so we could debate the merits of his choices. Certainly not so we could debate how the pillars look. If you don't like them, fine. It's not your car, and you've never heard them, so judging an audio setup on it's aesthetics is certainly the only thing you can judge via the internet. 

Plenty of people have done far crazier things to acheive their idea of sonic nirvana. 

With a rough tune on the car, I can safely say that this car has a front presence that will be very hard to equal without duplication. 

Time alignment was roughly dialed in, crossover points were guestimated based on the drivers capabilities and no equalization was done, and the car still sounded incredible right out of the gate. This was the goal. This was the vision that Todd had when he thought this setup up. 

He could have went with simpler more conventional methods, but where would the fun be in that? 

Aren't there any of us anymore that are here to see what can be acheived when we stretch the envelope and think outside the box?


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Very well said and I agree with everything 110% here!

Has anyone asked if Todd likes the way it sounds and looks? That is all that really matters. I wish you guys were closer as I wouldn't mind hearing it myself. I have heard pretty much every driver in the Hertz/Audison lineup but have never heard those ribbon mids. I am sure that sub of mine sounds incredible along with its brother


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

How would those ribbons sound if they were mounted under the dash like Waveguides?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

SaturnSL1 said:


> How would those ribbons sound if they were mounted under the dash like Waveguides?


Probably would be obstructed by the steering wheel, and not much real estate to put them there being that the 2nd set of midbass are already there...


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Just wondering


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

WRX/Z28 said:


> LOL. If your window is that fogged, and you can't wipe it with your elbow enough to see a person in a crosswalk while going normal turning speed... actually, nevermind. You're reaching there...


My bad, I mistook it for a LHD car 

I KNOW windows fog that bad, where I live and where you live.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

chad said:


> My bad, I mistook it for a LHD car
> 
> I KNOW windows fog that bad, where I live and where you live.


You're right. It causes me to run people down every day. Fogged windows are the #1 killer of northeastern US pedestrians. :laugh:


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

Your's won't fog up because you don't have speakers installed right in front of your vents.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

chad said:


> Says the person in the crosswalk you can't see because your window is fogged to ****....
> 
> NOT utilitarian.
> 
> ...


sorry, i haven't been on here for a while. things got nutty at work. 

funny. i could care less about the silly vent. i have a moonroof, i can simply crack it if i have any fogging. frankly i don't believe that they work very well anyways. 

as far as being obstructive, they are not. anyone who couldn't drive with them shouldn't have a license IMO. if i hit someone on the crosswalk (won't happen because they aren't obstructive) then that's my problem. they are below eye level and really no more obstructive than the a pillars themselves.

not sure where all of your negativity comes from, seriously. i really don't understand when people pick fights on internet boards. but hey i suppose we all have to entertain ourselves somehow. 

Additionally, the bitone puts out 4V to the amps, the BTX2's put out 16V and they are balanced lines. a bitone IS NOT A LINE DRIVER. audison actually included the BTX2's with all VRX EX models sold. i guess i would've expected people on this board to understand the difference between a balanced and unbalanced signal prior to sounding off about how it was going overboard.....

the build is simple in design the pillars are the only "flash" and frankly there was no other way to do them. i wanted them upright and on axis at ear level. i discussed my options with the shop (they gave me 2 other options) and i chose to stick with this. ive seen wicked crazy builds on this site and on other sites, for anyone to say this was overboard is simply inaccurate. it's a total SQ build and i wanted my vehicle to look as stock as possible. 

most importantly, i earned the money, i'll spend it however, i choose. i'm sure lots of people not even into car audio would say, "what's the point" about your system too. isn't audio all about going overboard? i have a friend who has $4K speaker cables on a $26000 set of speakers for his home system, snake oil, perhaps but it's his money.

wrx/z28 posted a nice write up about balanced lines...

anyways, i have a bad amp channel and now the 4.300 is going back to elettromedia. i can't get a stinkin' break man. LOL

i found some old school briefcase drivers I purchased from saladfingers (thanks man!) and i should have them this week. so those will be replaced soon. 

Additionally, the 4.300 will be replaced with 2 2 channel VRX amps eventually and i will go class a. i'm sure that is a waste of my money as well.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

:snacks:


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Im very excited to show I think the folks on the crosswalk will be ok 
View from driving position


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

todd131 said:


> Im very excited to show I think the folks on the crosswalk will be ok
> View from driving position


might be best to just let this go...the original comment that was made, if you go back and read it again was totally tongue and cheek. If anything it was made to compliment the installer. At least thats how i think most people took it.

So coming back here and pouring gas on the fire is not going to help your cause..IMO.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Well, how's it sound besides the bad amp channel?


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## LIMITED (Mar 10, 2013)

After you took the first shop owner out for dinner , bought the whole shop lunch 3 times and washed everyones car twice,did u try jerkig him off ?

Maybe he would have finished your install?

Just trying to be helpful.This is only my 3rd post or something so what do I know?

Nice ribbons. I mounted mine right on the windshield at eye level.


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

todd131 said:


> Im very excited to show I think the folks on the crosswalk will be ok
> View from driving position


thats a terrible wrap job on the material. looks really rushed, as does the tweeter pod.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

cruzinbill said:


> thats a terrible wrap job on the material. looks really rushed, as does the tweeter pod.


valid...


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## haromaster87 (Jan 20, 2012)

I cannot believe the people coming in here trying to piss on the little bit of happiness this guy might have found. Unreal. Dude's been through a **** ton. You think his install looks weird? Try something new, stick your comments where the sun don't shine.

Todd, I think it looks awesome. Those pods are just great, bet it sounds beyond great. I'm glad you finally got someone to get the install done the way you like, and it seems like you're happy, so I think that's great. Sorry to hear about your whole ordeal. but again I'm glad you finally got it sorted. Congrats!


----------



## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

haromaster87 said:


> I cannot believe the people coming in here trying to piss on the little bit of happiness this guy might have found. Unreal. Dude's been through a **** ton. You think his install looks weird? Try something new, stick your comments where the sun don't shine.
> 
> Todd, I think it looks awesome. Those pods are just great, bet it sounds beyond great. I'm glad you finally got someone to get the install done the way you like, and it seems like you're happy, so I think that's great. Sorry to hear about your whole ordeal. but again I'm glad you finally got it sorted. Congrats!


I'm not tryn to piss on anything, if the guy got screwed he got screwed. Im not gonna lie to him and say it looks awesome tho. If he wants to send them down to me Id be glad to clean them up and re cover them correctly for mats and a few bucks. Just on the principle there is no reason why he should have had 2 bad run ins let alone the first.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

^^^^^well said haromaster I agree 100%^^^^^^^^


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

LIMITED said:


> After you took the first shop owner out for dinner , bought the whole shop lunch 3 times and washed everyones car twice,did u try jerkig him off ?
> 
> Maybe he would have finished your install?
> 
> ...


Hahahaha


----------



## cchrono (Oct 8, 2009)

I gotta agree the install might sound great and function fine. But I would not have been happy paying someone for my pillars to be wrapped like that, I think anyone could cover them and get those results.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

miniSQ said:


> might be best to just let this go...the original comment that was made, if you go back and read it again was totally tongue and cheek. If anything it was made to compliment the installer. At least thats how i think most people took it.
> 
> So coming back here and pouring gas on the fire is not going to help your cause..IMO.


I don't think it was tongue in cheek. I think it was a stab at my "Utilitarian" comment. Either way, it was silly. 



cruzinbill said:


> thats a terrible wrap job on the material. looks really rushed, as does the tweeter pod.





cruzinbill said:


> I'm not tryn to piss on anything, if the guy got screwed he got screwed. Im not gonna lie to him and say it looks awesome tho. If he wants to send them down to me Id be glad to clean them up and re cover them correctly for mats and a few bucks. Just on the principle there is no reason why he should have had 2 bad run ins let alone the first.





cchrono said:


> I gotta agree the install might sound great and function fine. But I would not have been happy paying someone for my pillars to be wrapped like that, I think anyone could cover them and get those results.


Wow, you guys can see all that from one distant shot in bad light? I'm not seeing the wrap issues w/ the a-pillars. Granted I'm biased, but the seams are clean and kept to a minimum, especially considering the irregular shape and they haven't even seen any summer heat yet. What are you guys seeing? The suede being brushed in different directions? Come see them in person, then judge the wrap job.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

haromaster87 said:


> I cannot believe the people coming in here trying to piss on the little bit of happiness this guy might have found. Unreal. Dude's been through a **** ton. You think his install looks weird? Try something new, stick your comments where the sun don't shine.
> 
> Todd, I think it looks awesome. Those pods are just great, bet it sounds beyond great. I'm glad you finally got someone to get the install done the way you like, and it seems like you're happy, so I think that's great. Sorry to hear about your whole ordeal. but again I'm glad you finally got it sorted. Congrats!


Trolls are everywhere man, not just under bridges anymore... :laugh:


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## JimHTP (Nov 12, 2012)

This thread has been a classic example of internet rage. WTF cares about side window vents? if this was such an issue in the northeast (or anywhere for that matter) every ****ing car on the market would have side vents. Not to mention rain-x sells anti-fog window treatments for 4 dollars at wal-mart if you really want to get serious.

and I agree with wrx on the wrap job, could everyone not tell it was freaking suede not vinyl?

this thread is a great example of the degeneration of humanity. Between the silly attacks on the car, some guy jumping all over somebody else's **** for asking about the line driver ( never understood how it seemed he was criticizing to anyone) and the idiot who created a username just to troll...i mean damn. I think it looks great and I wish I could get an opportunity to hear drivers and an install of the caliber. Congrats on the car todd


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

JimHTP said:


> This thread has been a classic example of internet rage. WTF cares about side window vents? if this was such an issue in the northeast (or anywhere for that matter) every ****ing car on the market would have side vents. Not to mention rain-x sells anti-fog window treatments for 4 dollars at wal-mart if you really want to get serious.
> 
> and I agree with wrx on the wrap job, could everyone not tell it was freaking suede not vinyl?
> 
> this thread is a great example of the degeneration of humanity. Between the silly attacks on the car, some guy jumping all over somebody else's **** for asking about the line driver ( never understood how it seemed he was criticizing to anyone) and the idiot who created a username just to troll...i mean damn. I think it looks great and I wish I could get an opportunity to hear drivers and an install of the caliber. Congrats on the car todd


And your post is a classic example of bandwagon hopping.

There wasn't a single critical post in this thread that didn't have the OPs best interest at heart. There were a couple of posts that were not critical or constructive but were disruptive. Those deserve rebuke.

As for the specifics.... from looking at that shot, suede or poor light or not, the job appears to be very shoddy. And IF it's shoddy (and not just bad light and "suede"), and WRX charged the OP for the job, I hope he get's a rework or a refund. However if it's just the light (and the rough lines along the rubber and the small gap between the two speakers and the offset placement of the tweeter in the ring are just illusion...) then it looks like solid work and I'm happy for the OP. 

If you are going to post your work here and how you are saving the day (and gaining free advertising) I'd hope you'd be ready to be held to standard, especially when you are charging the customer for the work.

Now if WRX is just doing this out of the goodness of his heart then no criticism is reasonable unless he's tearing apart the customers car in the process.

But if you make it public expect there to be public responses of varying degrees. Especially since most of us are doing this out of the best interest of the OP not a vendor.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

JimHTP said:


> This thread has been a classic example of internet rage. WTF cares about side window vents? if this was such an issue in the northeast (or anywhere for that matter) every ****ing car on the market would have side vents. Not to mention rain-x sells anti-fog window treatments for 4 dollars at wal-mart if you really want to get serious.
> 
> and I agree with wrx on the wrap job, could everyone not tell it was freaking suede not vinyl?
> 
> this thread is a great example of the degeneration of humanity. Between the silly attacks on the car, some guy jumping all over somebody else's **** for asking about the line driver ( never understood how it seemed he was criticizing to anyone) and the idiot who created a username just to troll...i mean damn. I think it looks great and I wish I could get an opportunity to hear drivers and an install of the caliber. Congrats on the car todd


Unfortunately I was "some guy", can't always sense tone over the internet, assumption made an ass out of me...


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## JimHTP (Nov 12, 2012)

> And your post is a classic example of bandwagon hopping.


Sure. Because if someone does not agree with you but does with 10 other people, they are a bandwagon-hopper and you are the oh-so-righteous loner with principle. 

Onto the pillars, i would agree the shop should be willing to accept the criticism. I just don't see where and why it looks so bad according to everyone, even after going back and looking with your specific criticisms in mind.The only thing I think we can actually see well enough for me to agree with you on are some of the seams on the pillar, but that could just be a bad shot. 

wrx-28- as my above statement also indicates, rage is the name of the game in this thread. Everyone is so pissy and high strung in here it's infectious, and it seems like everyone is waaaay to personally involved ( myself included)


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

santiagodraco said:


> And your post is a classic example of bandwagon hopping.
> 
> There wasn't a single critical post in this thread that didn't have the OPs best interest at heart. There were a couple of posts that were not critical or constructive but were disruptive. Those deserve rebuke.
> 
> ...


What bandwagon hopping? The bandwagon seems to be to nitpick it to death. 

FWIW, the tweeter is sitting about a half inch to an inch in front of the ribbon midrange in it's own texture coated cup with a curved piece that sits against the A-pillar. The suede is brushed in different directions in the photo's, and really suede never photograph's well. Anyone that has ever worked with suede knows that. It's kind of like chrome in that regard. Anyone that has ever tried to get a picture of a chrome amp knows what i'm talking about. 

Please clarify what looks shoddy, especially being that there is no rubber in the install and the speakers are intentionally offset. 

I'm not seeing how anyone can judge anything from that photo. It doesn't show any detail, nor any flaws that I see aside from the suede pattern. 

We are a shop that handled this, and no, we did not do it out of charity. In that regard I agree with you, and we expected some scrutiny. It just seems misplaced in this instance. The wrap is suede, and it's clean. It was a fabricated pillar and hand wrapped. The pieces have also never seen heat, so any minor ripples (none are visible in the photo that I saw) will smooth out once they sit in the car in the summer for a few days. 

As I said, come see them in person. Everyone that came through the shop during the build was loving them, and they got to see them up close and personal. 

Constructive criticism is always welcome. "I could do that better" criticism with no proof is not... everyone on the internet could do it better.


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

WRX/Z28 said:


> What bandwagon hopping? The bandwagon seems to be to nitpick it to death.
> 
> FWIW, the tweeter is sitting about a half inch to an inch in front of the ribbon midrange in it's own texture coated cup with a curved piece that sits against the A-pillar. The suede is brushed in different directions in the photo's, and really suede never photograph's well. Anyone that has ever worked with suede knows that. It's kind of like chrome in that regard. Anyone that has ever tried to get a picture of a chrome amp knows what i'm talking about.
> 
> ...


Well you know that the Internet is an instant ego booster right? You automatically are 2x more capable on the Internet that you are in person 

Yes, Suede doesn't photograph well and I really did mean what I said that if it IS just due to the Suede then it's a moot point and it looks great. From the pic there looks to be some rough edges along the back of the pillar against the rubber trim, some kind of black gap behind the right mid side of the ribbon and also some kind of fold across the pillar about mid way between the two. Just from the pic, and like you said it could all be just from the shot.

I've not been a fan of suede because of the rough look it can give. Some love it, some hate it.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

Those pillars 

if you like it..then yeah.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Wow, you guys can see all that from one distant shot in bad light? I'm not seeing the wrap issues w/ the a-pillars. Granted I'm biased, but the seams are clean and kept to a minimum, especially considering the irregular shape and they haven't even seen any summer heat yet. What are you guys seeing? The suede being brushed in different directions? Come see them in person, then judge the wrap job.


i think what shows up in the picture is some wrinkling behind the mid, and between the drivers, but the two seams, one between the drivers, one on a arc between drivers and the one above the tweeter seem to be what caught my eye. 

They may not be wrinkles or seams...but thats what it looks like.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

I really didn't want this thread to create any negativity. Prior to that picture being posted I had a conversation with the shop about the passenger pillar. I was told it would be fixed. That's all I really have to say about that....


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

That phot was actually taken after installer did an inspection and tore the seam more and wrinkled the pillar. Bottom line, I was told to bring it back.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Didn't realize the one seam had split and I didn't see it in the photo until now. We'll obviously be correcting that.


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

todd131 said:


> That phot was actually taken after installer did an inspection and tore the seam more and wrinkled the pillar. Bottom line, I was told to bring it back.


If that's the case good. My beef was there were a lot of wrinkles where there shouldn't have been. I understand the mid makes it hard to do without any seams, but wrinkles are not acceptable to have. Only other thing was the tweeter ring doesn't seem like it was done as good as it could have been. Prolly could have smoothed it out more and contoured a bit better. 

If they are willing to fix the fabric tho then I would say sure, its fine then after that.


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

WRX/Z28 said:


> I don't think it was tongue in cheek. I think it was a stab at my "Utilitarian" comment. Either way, it was silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will save and circle the problems I had seen, some of them may be just an illusion of the picture. If that's the case then ok that's understandable.

I just don't want to see this guy get shafted anymore than he has. If that means coming off like a dick and calling out every detail, then sure Id rather him get what he deserves in the end.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Yes they do/are. Lol ^

Completely unrelated:
I find I learn more in life when I ask questions rather than make assumptions.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

JimHTP said:


> This thread has been a classic example of internet rage. WTF cares about side window vents? if this was such an issue in the northeast (or anywhere for that matter) every ****ing car on the market would have side vents. Not to mention rain-x sells anti-fog window treatments for 4 dollars at wal-mart if you really want to get serious.
> 
> and I agree with wrx on the wrap job, could everyone not tell it was freaking suede not vinyl?
> 
> this thread is a great example of the degeneration of humanity. Between the silly attacks on the car, some guy jumping all over somebody *else's **** for asking about the line driver ( never understood how it seemed he was criticizing to anyone) *and the idiot who created a username just to troll...i mean damn. I think it looks great and I wish I could get an opportunity to hear drivers and an install of the caliber. Congrats on the car todd


Thank You


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## santiagodraco (Feb 9, 2012)

todd131 said:


> That phot was actually taken after installer did an inspection and tore the seam more and wrinkled the pillar. Bottom line, I was told to bring it back.


Thanks Todd. At least now we know we aren't seeing things and that it's being corrected. That's all that matters. I wish I could image my speakers properly but Infiniti felt it was necessary to put the defrosting/air ducting inside the A-pillars in my car ;D Oops!


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

Wrapping that pillar would be no fun, it's even harder to do it with suede.....a redo is not a surprise and not umproffesional. Kick ass that you guys helped him get his install squared away. Maybe try flocking the pillars, no seams, easy to do and not expensive. I have also had great luck wrapping things in fleece since it wraps around stupid huge concave sections like we all make when doing pillars with weird shaped drivers.


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

1. looks like a wrinkle, could be against the grain of the suede tho
2. looks like a seam that wasnt completed and a chunk missing
3. appears to be a rip
4. looks like a wrinkle also
5. ring doesnt look even, this was the part I meant looked rushed. Just looks like not enough filling and sanding was done to even it up
6. Another wrinkle.


These are the problems I had seen. Again as I said in a previous post. If its just an illusion for the stuff, and the other stuff is being fixed, then cool.

I wasnt tryn to piss in the Todds cheerios, just want to make sure he is aware that its not acceptable to have the above problems. Notice I didnt mention seams, as thats different and would be seen as a thin line. I understand that is not always possible to avoid seams.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^ all good man. I know you guys are looking out and being cool. Thank you.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

So how does it sound?


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

I guess in the end the important thing is that the OP feels as if hes gotten his moneys worth, and that he is happy with the finished product.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

Ok. I'm getting closer. I have all drivers in and working. Right now my mids and tweets are running passive with morel elate xovers. It sounds really good so far. I have to install the class a mods next. I have 2 I need one more. Thanks wrxz28 for working with me. It took too long but I'm happy with the angles now.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

D-Bass said:


> So how does it sound?


Non fatiguing


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Too long for sure... wish the angles had been 100% right from the get go, but we stand behind our work and they are right on now. Can't wait to get it back to active and all Chrome Shadow stuff... yah gotta come check out my dungeon of audio equipment soon and have a couple beers. 

Thank you for bringing the car to us, and thanks for all your patience. The few bumps in the road are a couple miles behind us now, and some new additions are on the horizon...  Very glad you're finally enjoying your tunes...


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

double post.


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## crackinhedz (May 5, 2013)

Hoping to see some more pics of the headunit, subs, even the car itself...

Glad you were able to overcome the first negative experience. I must admit the ribbons looked awkward to me at first, but seeing the driver side view made them look a little more at home. I like.

I still have my bit one waiting to be installed, and Im hoping to get it sounding anywhere near as good as how I imagine yours to sound. Although the closest audison installer to me is 3 hours away. (Might just get a "bit tune" done)


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

We're going to plan a get together for us, philly,south jersey guys...I can't wait to hear Todd's car!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm in, just let me know when and where.


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)




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