# Audible Physics Team & Product Information



## Mindcrime

This thread for Audible Physics product support, team chat, and general conversation. Lets try to keep things respectful


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## pcabinatan

Feals like a group session lol


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## decibelle

There is no official team AP anymore. Unless I have missed something, in which case, what exactly is going on here?


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## Mindcrime

You have missed something, go look at the old thread.


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## Mindcrime

Rishi is sponsoring a few of us.


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## pcabinatan

i guess thats what happens when your left in the dark.


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## decibelle

I'm glad to see it revived. That's neat. I hope it succeeds.


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## Mindcrime

Yeah, Rishi is a good guy... He should do well. The product is awesome


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## tnaudio

So there is team AP again but it's completely different people/cars?


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## Mindcrime

The owner of AP (Rishi) has never really gone anywhere. I will let him address this directly. I was part of the old team shortly before everything changed.


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## Offroader5

Well, once I get familiar with the rules and classes, I believe I'd like to have a go at competing. Who knows, maybe I could be persuaded to swap out the 15 for an AP 12 later on down the road


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## pcabinatan

Im thinking old school...two channel A/B amps per pair  Rockford T600.2's will fill the void perfectly


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## Mindcrime

pcabinatan said:


> Im thinking old school...two channel A/B amps per pair  Rockford T600.2's will fill the void perfectly


Get with the times son


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## pcabinatan

hecks no! lol nothing like 200 conservative 4 ohm power! Hell if i could find the T300-2 that was a 2006 model that was rated at 50w per channel that actually did 300w per channel at 4 ohms.


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## Golden Ear

Sub'd.


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## bigfastmike

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rishi S

I would like to thank Mindcrime for taking the time to start this thread on behalf of audible physics. The main purpose of this thread in my opinion is for me to directly get to know Ap fans , to develop a better communication and keeping things clear and open.


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## Rishi S

millerlyte said:


> I'm glad to see it revived. That's neat. I hope it succeeds.


Thank you and yes I hope it does succeed.Perhaps I can get some members from team AP Asia to post their experiences here.


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## Mindcrime

Rishi S said:


> I would like to thank Mindcrime for taking the time to start this thread on behalf of audible physics. The main purpose of this thread in my opinion is for me to directly get to know Ap fans , to develop a better communication and keeping things clear and open.


My pleasure Rishi


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## strakele

I've been using Rishi's speakers since 2010 I think and have been very pleased with their performance. The 3.5" form factor seems to strike a great balance between being able to fit in most places and low and high end extension.

Rishi, I think it would be very helpful to potential customers to post the specs of each speaker that's currently or soon to be available with a brief description of what makes them different from each other.


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## Rishi S

strakele said:


> I've been using Rishi's speakers since 2010 I think and have been very pleased with their performance. The 3.5" form factor seems to strike a great balance between being able to fit in most places and low and high end extension.
> 
> Rishi, I think it would be very helpful to potential customers to post the specs of each speaker that's currently or soon to be available with a brief description of what makes them different from each other.



Thank you Strakele.

we will be releasing a Ram 2 A and H12 Mid December 2013 Specification attached Photos will be available after finishing is done


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## Offroader5

So, evidently for MECA I would be placed in modified street class. Also looks like I'd need to neaten up some of my wiring


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## Mindcrime

Offroader5 said:


> So, evidently for MECA I would be placed in modified street class. Also looks like I'd need to neaten up some of my wiring


You can enter SQ only, you dont have to enter install. This is what I did before I finished my install.


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## Rishi S

Once released, I will be sponsoring 6 pairs of the Ram 2A for those who wish to compete with them.


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## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> Once released, I will be sponsoring 6 pairs of the Ram 2A for those who wish to compete with them.


Great initiative Rishi!!

Sent from my Find 5


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## blowrie54

Depending on rule changes (tweeter size )i woukld love to give them a shot. I've competed in meca street all year and i'm looking to do a larger "tweeter" to get more of freqs coming from up top. when are you looking to release them into the wild so to speak.


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## Rishi S

piyush7243 said:


> Great initiative Rishi!!
> 
> Sent from my Find 5


Thank you Piyush. This is simply my way of saying thank you to all those who have been supporting Audible Physics.

Guys I would like to introduce Piyush he is representing AP in India.


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## Rishi S

blowrie54 said:


> Depending on rule changes (tweeter size )i woukld love to give them a shot. I've competed in meca street all year and i'm looking to do a larger "tweeter" to get more of freqs coming from up top. when are you looking to release them into the wild so to speak.


plan is Mid December but will keep you posted


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## bertholomey

This is very exciting - looking forward to seeing the outcome.


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## pcabinatan

Rishi S said:


> Once released, I will be sponsoring 6 pairs of the Ram 2A for those who wish to compete with them.



Sounds Awesome! hint hint lol


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## Mindcrime

pcabinatan said:


> Sounds Awesome! hint hint lol


I know paul, those will work great in my Toyota. I will be entering that one in stock, and my Colorado in mod street.


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## Mindcrime

Rishi S said:


> Thank you Piyush. This is simply my way of saying thank you to all those who have been supporting Audible Physics.
> 
> Guys I would like to introduce Piyush he is representing AP in India.


Welcome Piyush!


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## Rishi S

I have just received news from Team Revealing Indonesia that their competition car came in 2nd place in Emma Asia Finals 2013 ( advance class 4k euro) It is was just announced in Foshan China.

I would like to congratulate Ricky (revvou) and thank him once again for his continuous support to Audible physics.


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## chefhow

Congrats Rishi!!


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## ReVVoU

Hi all team AP members. I am ricky from team AP indonesia. We've been competing for about 4 years now and Rishi has been supporting us all the way. His drivers keep getting better every time! The NZ3A is currently one of the best fullrange drivers around imho. And the competition result are great! We just got 2nd place in advance 4k emma asia championship yesterday. We will also be competing for the nationals title next january. Bravo sir Rishi for the amazing drivers. 
So when can we get the ram2a and the 12 subwoofer lol cant wait to try them


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## Offroader5

Rishi S said:


> we will be releasing a Ram 2 A and H12 Mid December 2013 Specification attached Photos will be available after finishing is done


What is the target power handling for the H12?


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## blowrie54

Rishi S said:


> plan is Mid December but will keep you posted


Good to hear, i've got a teammate looking for a good driver in that size range as well. looking forward to hearing a set.


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## Offroader5

I just thought of something. As far as I can tell in the MECA rules, if I install the NZ3's in the kicks, I will have to compete in mod street. If instead I use these new 2" (which I believe could fit behind the factory upper door tweeter location), then I could move up to street since I wouldn't be using the kicks. Question is whether I can get them to sound good in that location with the limited aiming I will have.

How much wiggle room do I have if a driver is installed in a stock location? Can I move it around and custom mount it as long as it fits behind the stock grille? I'm glad I was able to get the 8's installed in the doors with no trimming and below the OEM panel


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## Mindcrime

That is a good question, some of the MECA rules are not very clear, I will ask pcabinatan, he seems to have a good grip on the rules.


Offroader5 said:


> I just thought of something. As far as I can tell in the MECA rules, if I install the NZ3's in the kicks, I will have to compete in mod street. If instead I use these new 2" (which I believe could fit behind the factory upper door tweeter location), then I could move up to street since I wouldn't be using the kicks. Question is whether I can get them to sound good in that location with the limited aiming I will have.
> 
> How much wiggle room do I have if a driver is installed in a stock location? Can I move it around and custom mount it as long as it fits behind the stock grille? I'm glad I was able to get the 8's installed in the doors with no trimming and below the OEM panel


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## pcabinatan

per rule book, it dictates tweeter, but i would say confirm with Steve Stern. You are not limited on processing them, but you are limited in the amount ofmetal and plastic cutting to fit them in that location.
quote from 2013 roolbook pg 25 "Altering any speaker panel locations to improve sound."'Door panel modifications'


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## bigfastmike

Is there any printable info other than specs on internet that I can share with people that want to use AP? I always have people wanting to look into them after hearing mine but other than the forum I don't know what to tell them. Pics, specs, prices and where to buy would be great. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## bigfastmike

Is there any printable info other than specs on internet that I can share with people that want to use AP? I always have people wanting to look into them after hearing mine but other than the forum I don't know what to tell them. Pics, specs, prices and where to buy would be great. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## JVD240

bigfastmike said:


> Is there any printable info other than specs on internet that I can share with people that want to use AP? I always have people wanting to look into them after hearing mine but other than the forum I don't know what to tell them. Pics, specs, prices and where to buy would be great.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


Not much for pics. Prices and where to buy... contact Rishi directly.

Specs are on the site.


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## papasin

Offroader5 said:


> I just thought of something. As far as I can tell in the MECA rules, if I install the NZ3's in the kicks, I will have to compete in mod street. If instead I use these new 2" (which I believe could fit behind the factory upper door tweeter location), then I could move up to street since I wouldn't be using the kicks. Question is whether I can get them to sound good in that location with the limited aiming I will have.
> 
> How much wiggle room do I have if a driver is installed in a stock location? Can I move it around and custom mount it as long as it fits behind the stock grille? I'm glad I was able to get the 8's installed in the doors with no trimming and below the OEM panel





pcabinatan said:


> per rule book, it dictates tweeter, but i would say confirm with Steve Stern. You are not limited on processing them, but you are limited in the amount ofmetal and plastic cutting to fit them in that location.
> quote from 2013 roolbook pg 25 "Altering any speaker panel locations to improve sound."'Door panel modifications'


I agree with Paul, that for any clarification or questions with MECA rules, contact the MECA commish (Steve Stern) or someone in MECA R&E (Rules and Ethics).

Here is my understanding in a nutshell which is a progression in classes (but get confirmation before you take this as gospel )...

1. In stock, can't cut anything, and you're limited to processing of 16 bands of eq or less. For mounting tweeters, you can only put them in the stock location or sails/pillars, but they have to be flush mounted (you can't aim them or any sort of build outs).
2. In street, you can cut up to 1/2" of metal to fit the same size speaker in a stock location, but my understanding is you need to use the same size speaker in the stock locations that came from the factory. You can use unlimited bands of processing. So if my doors came with a stock 6x9 as some trucks come with, my understanding is you have to put a 6x9 in there. Even if you are able to fit an 8" in a stock 6x9 opening without cutting, my understanding is that moves you up a class.
3. In mod street, you can add kick panels and up to a 6.5" speaker in the kicks and a tweeter. So long as you can fit a different size speaker in the stock location and cutting up to 1/2" of metal to fit, then you're good (i.e. stuffing an 8" in a stock 6x9 location putting a 2" in a stock 1" location, getting a 4" in the dash location where there was a 3", etc.).

My $0.02 FWIW.


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## tnaudio

There is a car in mod street that has built a-pillars with 2" drivers similar to these running as wideband currently competing. We thought his seemed a little shady as well but kept quiet so to not seem like some winy people. But I would say go for it since you will be competing against it.


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## papasin

tnaudio said:


> There is a car in mod street that has built a-pillars with 2" drivers similar to these running as wideband currently competing. We thought his seemed a little shady as well but kept quiet so to not seem like some winy people. But I would say go for it since you will be competing against it.


That may require re-clarification for 2014, but in the 2013 rules thread, that seems to be "permitted".

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-meca-2013-rules-post1827921.html#post1827921


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## strakele

bigfastmike said:


> Is there any printable info other than specs on internet that I can share with people that want to use AP? I always have people wanting to look into them after hearing mine but other than the forum I don't know what to tell them. Pics, specs, prices and where to buy would be great.


This is why I was recommending having all available drivers listed here with specs, pics, and a brief description of how they differ. Rishi, once it's all written up you could ask a moderator to post it on the first page of this thread, or make a new one. And/or put it on the AP website.


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## quickaudi07

I had Ariens great speakers, good build quality, but i had to let them go


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## dgage

Yeah, as a potential customer I go to the AP site and see 3 speakers but no real understanding of how they differ. Is one better than the others? Does one work better off-axis and another on-axis? Just confusing.


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## Offroader5

papasin said:


> 2. In street, you can cut up to 1/2" of metal to fit the same size speaker in a stock location, but my understanding is you need to use the same size speaker in the stock locations that came from the factory. You can use unlimited bands of processing. So if my doors came with a stock 6x9 as some trucks come with, my understanding is you have to put a 6x9 in there. Even if you are able to fit an 8" in a stock 6x9 opening without cutting, my understanding is that moves you up a class.
> 
> My $0.02 FWIW.


Mine did come with 6x9's...and I have 8's in there now. It actually says "same size replacement speaker (cone area)" for street. Cone area for a 6x9 is about the same as a 7.5" diameter...6+9/2 = 7.5" It's so close...but I'm sure they follow a "no tolerance" rule. Hmm, may just have to stay in mod street.


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## papasin

Offroader5 said:


> Mine did come with 6x9's...and I have 8's in there now. It actually says "same size replacement speaker (cone area)" for street. Cone area for a 6x9 is about the same as a 7.5" diameter...6+9/2 = 7.5" It's so close...but I'm sure they follow a "no tolerance" rule. Hmm, may just have to stay in mod street.


Yeah, it's pretty close. Here's a handy chart I found:

Diameter of speaker | Cone area of speaker in square inches
18" ---> 254
15" ---> 192
13.5" ---> 143
12" ---> 113
11" ---> 95
10" ---> 79
8" ---> 50
6x9 ---> 42
6x8 ---> 38
6.5" ---> 33
4x10 ---> 31
5x7 ---> 28
5.25" ---> 22
4" ---> 13
3.5" ---> 10
2" ---> 3

I use that chart for example if I want to compare what it would be like to use two 12s vs. a single 15, etc., but also handy for just cone area comparisons in general. Something I've learned if you are ever in doubt is to go ahead and ask someone like Steve Stern or someone from R&E, since you can get verified at a local show, and compete in a certain class all year but then could get bumped later if there was a misinterpretation. Or...consider what you are thinking and just go with the higher class, as it would just leave less room for controversy if someone calls attention to your install.


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## Mindcrime

How about we post some pictures of AP installs?


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## Rishi S

Let me clarify about products.Pardon me, maybe I forgot to mention,Audible Physics drivers are most used by studio/home audio community.Usually they request only driver specs and graphs.And looking at these graphs and parameters its enough to understand the function of the drivers.It was only recently that our drivers were used by the car audio community.So it will take me a while to update the data and do a write up on performance

Currently I have 3 drivers 

Ram 3 A. As explained in the other thread these are more of wide band/mid range if placed on axis they can be used as a full range.otherwise usable is 180 hz - 8000 hz .

AR 3 A These drivers are new and are currently on the way to Richard.Maybe after auditioning them you can send me comments on their performance in the car audio.

Nz 3 A. this model doesn't need any introduction as many have experience with them.

If you have any questions please email me .

I would also like to add that the only driver designed with intended purpose for car audio will be the Ram 2A


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## papasin

Mindcrime said:


> How about we post some pictures of AP installs?


Sure, I imagine many have seen mine already, but here they are for those that haven't.

A-pillars with the Audible Physics Nz3-A/ATs
































































...and a set of pillars I have in progress for another vehicle










Audible Physics XR3M


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## Mindcrime




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## falstaff

Here are mine.... 

I would love the opportunity to try the AR3/A's, excuse my ignorance but how do I go about getting a set?


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## Offroader5

I'm glad I bought a second junk yard set of kick panels to install the NZ's into. I have a feeling that once the 2A comes out, I may want to go that route and put them in the pillars.

Rishi, the AT's could still be used with the 2A's right?


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## pjc

Subscribing to this because Im very interested in AP products.


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## bigfastmike

Mine

Used omnidirectional tops off my mirage bookshelf speakers to better control imaging and reflections. 





































Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rishi S

Here's mine with decoy tweeters 



Offroader5 said:


> Rishi, the AT's could still be used with the 2A's right?


yes ofcourse



pjc said:


> Subscribing to this because Im very interested in AP products.


Thank you


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## Mindcrime

Whats up Rishi


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## Rishi S

Mindcrime said:


> Whats up Rishi


oh nothing much, just relaxing


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## Mindcrime

When are you going to make a sub for me? Need to be 100% AP


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## Rishi S

Mindcrime said:


> When are you going to make a sub for me? Need to be 100% AP


:laugh::laugh:


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## bertholomey

Rishi S said:


> Here's mine with decoy tweeters


Those look fantastic!

The RAM drivers work extremely well in a speaker cabinet in a near-field presentation. I have a Parts Express 300 hertz crossover, and the drivers are being fed from a Peachtree Nova integrated similar to this one:

Peachtree Nova

I have a 10" powered sub under the desk, and the 'system' sounds very good. 



I have the AT's temporarily mounted on the face of the enclosure - need to come up with a better set up than that. I'll repost once I get the hickory stands done


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## Rishi S

bertholomey said:


> Those look fantastic!
> 
> The RAM drivers work extremely well in a speaker cabinet in a near-field presentation. I have a Parts Express 300 hertz crossover, and the drivers are being fed from a Peachtree Nova integrated similar to this one:
> 
> Peachtree Nova
> 
> I have a 10" powered sub under the desk, and the 'system' sounds very good.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the AT's temporarily mounted on the face of the enclosure - need to come up with a better set up than that. I'll repost once I get the hickory stands done



Glad you are enjoying the Ram 3


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## dgage

Man...I need some computer speakers too.  As a hobbyist woodworker, nice speaker enclosures!


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## bertholomey

dgage said:


> Man...I need some computer speakers too.  As a hobbyist woodworker, nice speaker enclosures!


Thanks! I had fun building them with my Father-in-Law.


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## Mindcrime

I am going to have to see how these work in Cyburg Needle's


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## Mindcrime

.........


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## Rishi S

@ mindcrime I would suggest just a fan club for now.Ap is still very young and for a company that only manufactures miniature drivers, a fan club is enough lol


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## papasin

Can count me in as a fan. I still have my very first XR3Ms, which I still have and will likely never let go...


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## Rishi S

This is a low cost paper midrange driver.Most use these to build pc speakers .Some also combine these with existing 2way systems in car audio


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## Rishi S

Thank you for the pm/email guys.I really appreciate the support

I have given your requests a thought and decided after I finish the Ram 2 A , I will directly focus on building the new XR 3M.

As for the Ar3a speakers they should Richard arrive soon.Hope to hear your comments on them


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## Mindcrime

That is great news, I am always up for testing new products


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## papasin

Rishi S said:


> I have given your requests a thought and decided after I finish the Ram 2 A , I will directly focus on building the new XR 3M.


As I've indicated, one of my favorites, and one of the speakers that got me really going in SQ and in competition. For some that may have never seen the original speaker, here are some pics from my build thread and comparing them to the AP Nz3 .
















































Rishi S said:


> As for the Ar3a speakers they should Richard arrive soon.Hope to hear your comments on them


I will be in contact to folks shortly.


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## bigfastmike

Rishi. Have you considered selling amt separate? A lot of interest in them with other full ranges. I feel bad telling people different place to purchase them. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rishi S

bigfastmike said:


> Rishi. Have you considered selling amt separate? A lot of interest in them with other full ranges. I feel bad telling people different place to purchase them.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


Yes its possible. I will have to request Takeshi to provide the independent versions


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## Mindcrime

Rishi S said:


> Yes its possible. I will have to request Takeshi to provide the independent versions


This would be good, that way when you drop one into your dashboard you can buy a replacement instead of tearing your dash out to find the little guy! :laugh:


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## Rishi S

Mindcrime said:


> This would be good, that way when you drop one into your dashboard you can buy a replacement instead of tearing your dash out to find the little guy! :laugh:


That's harsh
:laugh:


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## Mindcrime

Rishi S said:


> That's harsh
> :laugh:


It was real harsh when I was pulling my dash apart to find it! Lol


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## Rishi S

Mindcrime said:


> It was real harsh when I was pulling my dash apart to find it! Lol


next time drop me an email.lol


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## Rishi S

papasin said:


> As I've indicated, one of my favorites, and one of the speakers that got me really going in SQ and in competition. For some that may have never seen the original speaker, here are some pics from my build thread and comparing them to the AP Nz3 .
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hmmmmm looks will need a bigger basket for the new xr3m.
Yes, I will need a bigger basket lol


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## Golden Ear

Mindcrime said:


> It was real harsh when I was pulling my dash apart to find it! Lol


That sucks!


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## strakele

Rishi S said:


> hmmmmm looks will need a bigger basket for the new xr3m.
> Yes, I will need a bigger basket lol


Nothing says you can't do a 4" ... 

With as much cone area and as small a flange as possible


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## papasin

Rishi S said:


> hmmmmm looks will need a bigger basket for the new xr3m.
> Yes, I will need a bigger basket lol


The nice thing about the older one though with the same basket is it allowed for "drop-in" replacements into our current pillars. But I can understand the pros and cons. XR4M?


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## papasin

strakele said:


> Nothing says you can't do a 4" ...
> 
> With as much cone area and as small a flange as possible


Lol, I think Grayson and I are on the same page with similar goals :surprised: :laugh:


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## claydo

Yes, a 4" would be nice.........while we are requesting things, how about a Neo motor on that 4"!


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## Golden Ear

claydo said:


> Yes, a 4" would be nice.........while we are requesting things, how about a Neo motor on that 4"!


That's what I was thinking!


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## claydo

Yes, that's it, a Neo motored 4" optimized for small sealed enclosures. That will play down around 150 Hz with authority, and be as detailed as the nz......is that too much?


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## Golden Ear

claydo said:


> Yes, that's it, a Neo motored 4" optimized for small sealed enclosures. That will play down around 150 Hz with authority, and be as detailed as the nz......is that too much?


If he could make that happen I would be VERY tempted to have new pods built


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## claydo

My pods are already complete for said setup! So I'm one step ahead of ya, would just have to swap drivers out...

From what I've heard out of the AP drivers, I don't think I'd miss my tangs......


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## Offroader5

claydo said:


> Yes, that's it, a Neo motored 4" optimized for small sealed enclosures. That will play down around 150 Hz with authority, and be as detailed as the nz......is that too much?


As long as making it happen doesn't cost a fortune.


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## Golden Ear

Offroader5 said:


> As long as making it happen doesn't cost a fortune.


Oh yeah, and sell it for the same price or less than the NZ3, Rishi:laugh::laugh:


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## wdemetrius1

^^

With the current cost of Neo, that is a very tall order.

A 4 inch driver would be very nice.


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## Rishi S

Golden Ear said:


> Oh yeah, and sell it for the same price or less than the NZ3, Rishi:laugh::laugh:















wdemetrius1 said:


> ^^
> 
> With the current cost of Neo, that is a very tall order.
> 
> A 4 inch driver would be very nice.


wdemetrius1 is right about neo prices


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## piyush7243

Mindcrime said:


> Welcome Piyush!


Thanks Buddy and it's really fun with AP, not many know about it in India but we are working on the same


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## JVD240

Question for you AP owners...

Just got a set of the NZ3A to be used in factory dash locations firing off of the windshield. Is there any place in particular I should be trying to put the AMT? Is it ok if I just stick it to the underside of the factory grill?


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## papasin

JVD240 said:


> Question for you AP owners...
> 
> Just got a set of the NZ3A to be used in factory dash locations firing off of the windshield. Is there any place in particular I should be trying to put the AMT? Is it ok if I just stick it to the underside of the factory grill?


I think it would be "ok", but I was advised to try to get the transducers on-axis, within 6" of the Nz3s. Also, not sure how much attenuation the factory grill is going to cause. If you have an RTA, you might want to try to take some measurements...


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## bigfastmike

Great thing about them is you can easily stick em In different places to hear how they sound. Nobody can just tell you the best place to put them. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## JVD240

Ya, I'll play around with locations before permanently mounting. Just looking for any experiences, general rules of thumb, etc.

Trying to keep everything looking OEM.


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## Mindcrime

JVD240 said:


> Ya, I'll play around with locations before permanently mounting. Just looking for any experiences, general rules of thumb, etc.
> 
> Trying to keep everything looking OEM.


I have moved mine around several times, I have had them in front of the nZ, behind them, above, bellow... Never seemed to make too much of a difference..


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## bigfastmike

I have heard people say they don't notice much. Try switching phase if you don't think they don't do much. Lol. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Mindcrime

bigfastmike said:


> I have heard people say they don't notice much. Try switching phase if you don't think they don't do much. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


Missed my point, I was not saying I didn't notice a difference with or without them, I was trying to say I didn't notice a difference in sound by changing mounting locations


----------



## JVD240

Cool. Thanks guys!

I'll post impressions once they go in the truck.

Also paired them with H 6 MB.


----------



## bigfastmike

Mindcrime said:


> Missed my point, I was not saying I didn't notice a difference with or without them, I was trying to say I didn't notice a difference in sound by changing mounting locations


Oh. Gotcha 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Rishi S

JVD240 said:


> Cool. Thanks guys!
> 
> I'll post impressions once they go in the truck.
> 
> Also paired them with H 6 MB.


looking forward


----------



## piyush7243

There you go..


----------



## Mindcrime

Very nice!


----------



## karanbhatia

Hey Rishi

As we talked about, uploading the pics of the third set of RAM3 here.

The pair is a almost drop in replacement for a Morel CDM88 and MT22 tweeter however the final decision to go tweeter-less will be left to the owner 

The install is going on as I type and the owner's first impressions will be shared soon enough.


----------



## piyush7243

Nice snaps. Direction wise it would be around 15 degree Off axis


----------



## Rishi S

karanbhatia said:


> Hey Rishi
> 
> As we talked about, uploading the pics of the third set of RAM3 here.
> 
> The pair is a almost drop in replacement for a Morel CDM88 and MT22 tweeter however the final decision to go tweeter-less will be left to the owner
> 
> The install is going on as I type and the owner's first impressions will be shared soon enough.



Cool Karan , keep us posted


----------



## Winno

Hi from Australia. 
I'm Steve and I run an AP system too. 










I ran NZ3's for a while but upgraded to RAM3A's for a much more refined sound. 
The pic above shows the RAMs with H-Audio H6.5MB midbasses in the doors. The RAMs are housed in full spheres glassed onto the a-pillars and are about 19° off axis from the driver's seat. 

The RAMs are amped from an older school class A/B Phoenix Gold Titanium 600.2 (the Titanium coloured series) with the source from a Clarion HX-D2. 










I don't use the AT's that ship with these drivers. Simply no need when using a quality parametric processor. 

Can't wait to see the RAM2's. Due to their smaller size, they'll allow more fitment flexibility. Their wide range capability will also be a bonus.


----------



## Mindcrime

Steve, looks great man!


----------



## JVD240

Awesome, steve! I was just re-visiting your build log the other day. 

Still using the Seas SL for midbass duty? How are they keeping up? What do you prefer in the RAM over the NZ?


----------



## MacLeod

Sub'd. Definitely interested in these little speakers.


----------



## Winno

I went from the Seas L16RNSL to the H-Audio's. 
I've changed thing again and actually run some carbon fibre CSS SDX7's. 










I can now run a lower high pass point as I have more xmax and no mechanical noise. 

The RAM's are smoother than the NZ's up top but lack no detail that has made the NZ so well known. Their midrange is more 'real' and overall, they are just a much nicer driver to listen to - more refined, more 'hi-fi' sounding, more transparent.


----------



## wdemetrius1

^^

Your install looks great Steve!!!


----------



## Octave

falstaff said:


> Here are mine....
> 
> I would love the opportunity to try the AR3/A's, excuse my ignorance but how do I go about getting a set?


Beat me to it. 

I must say Dustin's install was my first experience with the AP speakers and I must say I'm impressed with them. The overall detail exhibited by them blew me away. I can't wait for them to be fully broken in.


----------



## Rishi S

@Steve 












Octave said:


> Beat me to it.
> 
> I must say Dustin's install was my first experience with the AP speakers and I must say I'm impressed with them. The overall detail exhibited by them blew me away. I can't wait for them to be fully broken in.


Thanks Russ and great work on the install


----------



## xwfalcon

Some nice install pics from all .Im have been running AP drivers for midrange first NZ now ARs for a while now i love them really amazing little drivers ,they have no problems keeping up with the 8s in the doors .

Patiently waiting for APs 12 cant wait to try this .

If the next driver your going to work on is another XR 3 M Rishi sign me up for sure to try a pair of them please ,from all the reading i did when i first found out about AP the XR 3 really is a driver i would have liked to try out but i was to late on the scene .

Keep up the great work Rishi .


----------



## piyush7243

Winno said:


> I went from the Seas L16RNSL to the H-Audio's.
> I've changed thing again and actually run some carbon fibre CSS SDX7's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can now run a lower high pass point as I have more xmax and no mechanical noise.
> 
> The RAM's are smoother than the NZ's up top but lack no detail that has made the NZ so well known. Their midrange is more 'real' and overall, they are just a much nicer driver to listen to - more refined, more 'hi-fi' sounding, more transparent.


Beautiful looking and sounding setup

Whats the LPF and HPF on the CSS driver?


----------



## papasin

Rishi S said:


> As for the Ar3a speakers they should Richard arrive soon.


Quick update...Rishi let me know that tracking shows they are delayed due to weather. Doesn't show an updated ETA. I'll let folks know as I get more info.


----------



## Winno

Rishi S said:


> @Steve


Thanks Rishi. 
I'll wave out the window as we fly over Bandung.


----------



## Winno

piyush7243 said:


> Beautiful looking and sounding setup
> 
> Whats the LPF and HPF on the CSS driver?


Thanks bud. 
Keeping it short (this thread is about Audible Physics after all);
RAM: 20kHz -> 250Hz @ -6dB 
SDX7: 250Hz @ -18dB -> 50Hz @ -18dB
Perfect 10VQ: 63Hz @ -18dB -> 20Hz


----------



## Mindcrime

Hey Gang,
If,anybody needs pricing on any of the AP drivers please PM me. If I do not reply right away please be patient, I will try my best to get back to you asap

Thanks
Dom


----------



## robtr8

Winno said:


> Thanks bud.
> Keeping it short (this thread is about Audible Physics after all);
> RAM: 20kHz -> 250Hz @ -6dB
> SDX7: 250Hz @ -18dB -> 50Hz @ -18dB
> Perfect 10VQ: 63Hz @ -18dB -> 20Hz


Squze please, WTF with the HU? All the yanks get is cheap crap from Clarion? Nice looking piece!


----------



## Winno

robtr8 said:


> Squze please, WTF with the HU? All the yanks get is cheap crap from Clarion? Nice looking piece!


You only have to look at the DRZ-9255 from Clarion. Not sure why it carries a different model number for the US market.


----------



## strakele

Mindcrime said:


> Hey Gang,
> If,anybody needs pricing on any of the AP drivers please PM me. If I do not reply right away please be patient, I will try my best to get back to you asap
> 
> Thanks
> Dom


Would it not be beneficial to everyone interested in AP drivers to have a price list posted for all to see? That way people can very quickly see if what they are interested in is within their price range.


----------



## Mindcrime

strakele said:


> Would it not be beneficial to everyone interested in AP drivers to have a price list posted for all to see? That way people can very quickly see if what they are interested in is within their price range.


Not my call, I just offered to help Rishi. If he would like to post prices it is up to him  I don't want to step on any toes


----------



## Mindcrime

For the record, I do agree though...


----------



## robtr8

Winno said:


> You only have to look at the DRZ-9255 from Clarion. Not sure why it carries a different model number for the US market.


Thanks, I didn't see it on the Clarion website. Nice looking unit. I take it that it's no longer in production?

I agree with you guy's about the price list. I get it that it's a boutique product, one that I certainly am interested in, but I'd like to see a little more professional website/marketing effort. Right now it kinda feels like you're buying speakers out of the trunk of some guy's car you just met at the gas station.


----------



## Rishi S

robtr8 said:


> Thanks, I didn't see it on the Clarion website. Nice looking unit. I take it that it's no longer in production?
> 
> I agree with you guy's about the price list. I get it that it's a boutique product, one that I certainly am interested in, but I'd like to see a little more professional website/marketing effort. Right now it kinda feels like you're buying speakers out of the trunk of some guy's car you just met at the gas station.


New detailed website in process.Will be up soon


----------



## robtr8

Rishi S said:


> New detailed website in process.Will be up soon


Thanks, hope no offence was taken, just some constructive criticism. I'd really like to get the back story on AP (without having to dig through the bowels of DIYMA). I have an additional set of AR6K's and AR3K's just waiting for a project. I really like these drivers!


----------



## Rishi S

robtr8 said:


> Thanks, hope no offence was taken, just some constructive criticism. I'd really like to get the back story on AP (without having to dig through the bowels of DIYMA). I have an additional set of AR6K's and AR3K's just waiting for a project. I really like these drivers!


None Taken  I am always open and glad to receive criticism.I really appreciate your comments


----------



## Rishi S

Congratulations Team Revealing Easca National Champion


----------



## Offroader5

Seeing a lot of A-pillars in winning vehicles. I may have to find a way to get my widebands up top. The 2" could help with this.


----------



## Rishi S

Offroader5 said:


> Seeing a lot of A-pillars in winning vehicles. I may have to find a way to get my widebands up top. The 2" could help with this.


it sure can


----------



## Offroader5

What kind of space requirements are we talking for the 2A's sealed? I assume much less than the 1 liter you recommended for the NZ's?


----------



## papasin

papasin said:


> Quick update...Rishi let me know that tracking shows they are delayed due to weather. Doesn't show an updated ETA. I'll let folks know as I get more info.


Package arrived. PMs sent to folks Rishi indicated to receive them...


----------



## papasin

papasin said:


> Package arrived. PMs sent to folks Rishi indicated to receive them...


All shipped...


----------



## Mindcrime

papasin said:


> All shipped...


Thanks for the help! Did you wire yours up yet? Lol


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> All shipped...


Initial impressions comparing to RAM plz....


----------



## Rishi S

papasin said:


> All shipped...


Thank you Richard.

Preview of H-12


----------



## Mindcrime

Nice! I will teat it


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> Thank you Richard.
> 
> Preview of H-12


Looks bigger than a 12incher and really compact

Sent from my Find 5


----------



## papasin

Rishi S said:


> Thank you Richard.
> 
> Preview of H-12


Recommended enclosure size?


----------



## papasin

piyush7243 said:


> Initial impressions comparing to RAM plz....


Here you go.


----------



## papasin

Mindcrime said:


> Thanks for the help! Did you wire yours up yet? Lol


Not yet. I like to solder and color code heat shrink short speaker wires onto mine, with quick disconnects on the other end as you see above, which allows me to easily swap them out. I plan on doing that to the AR3-As tonight, and when I have a chance, drop them into my pillars and take some measurements.


----------



## Rishi S

papasin said:


> Recommended enclosure size?


FS 32 hz
qts 0.477
Vas 48.053 liters
Spl 86.7db


----------



## DonH

Drivers look great Rishi!


----------



## Rishi S

DonH said:


> Drivers look great Rishi!


Thanks Don 

Really appreciate it coming from you


----------



## DonH

After the Holiday season I should be able to purchase some wide banders and throw them in the pillars


----------



## DonH

Rishi S said:


> Thanks Don
> 
> Really appreciate it coming from you


Obviously my Glue beads would be much cleaner :laugh:, no really they look great to the eye and from what it looks like sound dashing!


----------



## Rishi S

DonH said:


> Obviously my Glue beads would be much cleaner :laugh:, no really they look great to the eye and from what it looks like sound dashing!


 will try to improve


----------



## pcabinatan

Here's what I just received from Mindcrime


Here are the rings I made here at work. I have a 2013 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab TRD, and these will be built into the pillars.
I used a CNC with a water jet to cut these rings out of poly. I was having issues building these as a solid unit with a recess for the driver, so they became two piece, which is no issue, I'll glass them together.
The outer rim is going to get routered down and smoothed out to fix the little nicks and junk from the water jet.


----------



## bigfastmike

Got mine too! Thanks Rishi! 
A bit beefier than my nz3. Hope I can squeeze em into my current enclosures. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## falstaff

Are these going to be tested and then sent to the next willing recipient? 


My installer and I would both like to try these newer offerings.


----------



## Rishi S

Hope to hear your impressions soon.

@falstaff pm sent


----------



## falstaff

Wow no impressions yet?


----------



## Mindcrime

Sorry, been so busy with the holidays


----------



## strakele

Yeah, haven't had too much time with the holidays going on.

But mine are installed and I've been listening to them on the way to and from work for a couple days now. I don't have anything to complain about. You could easily be happy with these without tweeters. You'd probably want them more on axis than I have them though. And they play lower than the NZ3s which is nice. 

My normal full system is rather complex - 3-way front stage, front subwoofer, and rear subwoofer. But for a bit when I first put these in, I tried it simplified - just the two AR3-A's and the front sub, and it was quite good. I'd be interested to see how it would do in a competition with just 3 speakers.


After some level matching, I took these RTA graphs.

This is how these speakers respond in MY CAR in MY PARTICULAR INSTALL. They are installed in the base of my A-pillars, mostly off axis, with foam behind them. So don't read too much into these results, but I wanted to show some kind of objective data.

Left side, NO EQ:










Right side, NO EQ:










Left side, WITH EQ:










RIGHT side, WITH EQ:










Combined response:


----------



## Golden Ear

Thanks for posting some feedback and graphs on these, Greyson! It sounds like a good speaker to use in my truck. I might have to check them out.


----------



## splaudiohz

Yeah from what I've heard Rishi is the man ( Speaker Designer ) Mark was just using his name "Audible Physics" to market the speakers. Now Mark has his new speakers ( designed by Rishi ). 

Good luck to all of them...


----------



## piyush7243

Looks great. Needs some EQ above 10K but its Off Axis as well so makes perfect sense..


----------



## falstaff

Looking forward to hearing more.

Thx!


----------



## Rishi S

strakele said:


> Yeah, haven't had too much time with the holidays going on.
> 
> But mine are installed and I've been listening to them on the way to and from work for a couple days now. I don't have anything to complain about. You could easily be happy with these without tweeters. You'd probably want them more on axis than I have them though. And they play lower than the NZ3s which is nice.
> 
> My normal full system is rather complex - 3-way front stage, front subwoofer, and rear subwoofer. But for a bit when I first put these in, I tried it simplified - just the two AR3-A's and the front sub, and it was quite good. I'd be interested to see how it would do in a competition with just 3 speakers.
> 
> 
> After some level matching, I took these RTA graphs.
> 
> This is how these speakers respond in MY CAR in MY PARTICULAR INSTALL. They are installed in the base of my A-pillars, mostly off axis, with foam behind them. So don't read too much into these results, but I wanted to show some kind of objective data.
> 
> Left side, NO EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right side, NO EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left side, WITH EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHT side, WITH EQ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Combined response:


Thank you for posting these Jason


----------



## bertholomey

Rishi S said:


> Thank you for posting these Jason


These were from Grayson


----------



## Rishi S

splaudiohz said:


> Yeah from what I've heard Rishi is the man ( Speaker Designer ) Mark was just using his name "Audible Physics" to market the speakers. Now Mark has his new speakers ( designed by Rishi ).
> 
> Good luck to all of them...



I think your post is out of context but we sure do appreciate your well wishes.Thank you


----------



## Rishi S

bertholomey said:


> These were from Grayson


Oh my.....Very sorry Grayson.


----------



## strakele

Haha it's all good.


----------



## Rishi S

Something new for car audio application.


----------



## papasin

^ 4"?


----------



## wdemetrius1

Rishi S said:


> Something new for car audio application.



What is that?


----------



## Rishi S

This is something I thought possible to increase the spl of drivers like nz3a and reduce mounting depth.

A 4 inch cone design is in the works.Will take some time as it is being done in Japan.Hopefully we can have a slim 4 inch early next year


----------



## Golden Ear

That's looks sweet! If it's a widebander it might even push me to have my pods redone


----------



## Rishi S

Golden Ear said:


> That's looks sweet! If it's a widebander it might even push me to have my pods redone


the 3inch neo are wide bands.


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> the 3inch neo are wide bands.


3 inch neos or 4 inch...

Sent from my Find 5


----------



## Rishi S

piyush7243 said:


> 3 inch neos or 4 inch...
> 
> Sent from my Find 5



3 inch. 4 inch cone is still being developed 

Below is a test graph of the neo 3.


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> 3 inch. 4 inch cone is still being developed
> 
> Below is a test graph of the neo 3.


cool... What are they called?


----------



## Rishi S

piyush7243 said:


> cool... What are they called?


TBA


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> TBA


 

Sent from my Find 5


----------



## papasin

Got a lot of help from MrsPapasin, so would like to first thank her for her ears and assistance.

Let me start off with a quantitative comparison between the Nz3, RAM, and AR3-A.

Also, as Grayson indicated with his tests, let me do so with mine with a MAJOR DISCLAIMER: this is how these 3 pairs of speakers respond in MY CAR in MY PARTICULAR INSTALL.

They are installed in the little windows of my A-pillars, on-axis from the passenger side, and roughly 30 degrees off-axis on the driver side.

Color coding:
Blue - Nz3
Red - RAM
Black - AR3-A

Left side (no EQ)









Right side (no EQ)









Stereo (no EQ)










Qualitatively, and let me say that both MrsPapasin and I concluded the qualitative impressions before looking at the data, here's a short synopsis...

Again, keep in mind this is for my car and YMMV...

1. Nz3
Pros: The Nz3 paired with the AT has the best top-end of the bunch. The sparkle and the air is the best comparing to the other 2 sets in *my* particular install.
Cons: The Nz3 had the weakest lower midrange of the bunch.

2. AR3-A
Pros: Lower midrange was by far the best of the trio. The weight was more present in male vocals, but even in something like a flute, where one normally associates it with higher frequencies, there is a richness that is experienced (a flute's fundamentals extend to the lower midrange).
Cons: In my install, it was the most lacking for the top end. With more EQ work, it probably could be improved, but nowhere as natural and "out of the box" as the others that were tested.

3. RAM
Pros: Most "all-around" driver. Had close to the top-end of the Nz3.
Cons: Could not match the AR3-A's lower midrange. It was better than the Nz3, but not as good as the AR3-A.

Overall impressions: Both MrsPapasin and I are quite impressed with the AR3-A. It's not the best driver for my particular install in the Civic as my pillars are not as on-axis as some that may be utilizing pods on the dash, but it is a keeper that we'll be using in another vehicle that we will match up with a pair of tweeters.


----------



## Golden Ear

Excellent review, Richard! Thanx for your time and info. Knowing how on-axis my pods are, would you be able to recommend a set for my truck or would you feel that testing them is necessary?


----------



## piyush7243

Great Review and i totally agree the part of individual settings as they may behave differently in different setups. Also i presume the car is a Civic and drivers facing the Central rear view mirror. Please correct me if i am wrong.


----------



## papasin

piyush7243 said:


> Great Review and i totally agree the part of individual settings as they may behave differently in different setups. Also i presume the car is a Civic and drivers facing the Central rear view mirror. Please correct me if i am wrong.


2009 Honda Civic SI sedan, often dubbed as an 8th gen Civic. A little more on-axis than to the central rear-view mirror. Passenger speaker on-axis to the driver's seat, driver side speaker roughly 30 degrees off-axis. Pics of the setup:

With Nz3:
































































With RAM:














































Did not get a chance to take pics with the AR3-As, but should get the idea...


----------



## piyush7243

Yep. Saw these in ur build thread with NZ3 earlier. Full Onaxis should bring out more High freq from AR3A

Going to get them a try with a complete On Axis setup and share my thoughts here.


----------



## papasin

piyush7243 said:


> Yep. Saw these in ur build thread with NZ3 earlier. Full Onaxis should bring out more High freq from AR3A
> 
> Going to get them a try with a complete On Axis setup and share my thoughts here.


Look forward to hearing your thoughts. I think you're right that full on-axis should help and Rishi shared that these have done well in a few other setups fully on-axis. But as I also indicated, adding a tweeter could be another consideration (just not one for the Civic's current install).


----------



## audiophile25

I have installed the AR3-A in my truck and I am pleased with the initial results. The response seems much flatter and require less EQ than the Dayton RS75 they are replacing.


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> Look forward to hearing your thoughts. I think you're right that full on-axis should help and Rishi shared that these have done well in a few other setups fully on-axis. But as I also indicated, adding a tweeter could be another consideration (just not one for the Civic's current install).


Yep, i like my install to play completely on the dash so running a Hiquphon OW II at the moment with my RAM3 and they rock but would be trying them completely On Axis as i heard several notes which i didn't hear at all before.

Will keep you posted


----------



## Lorin

As to top end, did you use the "AT" and just swap out mids? Or did you only run the AT with the NZ-3s?


----------



## papasin

Lorin said:


> As to top end, did you use the "AT" and just swap out mids? Or did you only run the AT with the NZ-3s?



The AT was used with all three drivers during our testing.


----------



## Rishi S

I would like to thank both Mr and Mrs Papasin for taking the time to test and compare the drivers.


----------



## splaudiohz

I need to talk to you Rishi, I wanna start my own line of speakers.


----------



## MrsPapasin

Rishi S said:


> I would like to thank both Mr and Mrs Papasin for taking the time to test and compare the drivers.


It was my pleasure. I learned a lot from listening to them. You make beautiful drivers. Thank you for the opportunity!


----------



## Rishi S

splaudiohz said:


> I need to talk to you Rishi, I wanna start my own line of speakers.



most welcome to


----------



## Rishi S

MrsPapasin said:


> It was my pleasure. I learned a lot from listening to them. You make beautiful drivers. Thank you for the opportunity!


Really appreciate your kind words


----------



## papasin

Rishi S said:


> Really appreciate your kind words



MrsPapasin just tells it like it is. 

In all seriousness, when I had her perform the listening test portion of all three drivers, she did not know which was which...so most of the comments above are what she shared. She knew them as driver 1, 2, 3.

I think we will test them next in a different vehicle and add my trusty XR3M to the mix, and a tweeter.


----------



## DonH

Boy, Those look fantastic! great install

Thank you fro the detailed review also! Should help many in the future


----------



## papasin

DonH said:


> Boy, Those look fantastic! great install


Credit goes to JT of JT Audio and Accessories for the install!  You should come hear them too. We'll be in your neck of the woods in a little less than two weeks.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/12-volt-events-team-diyma/157363-socal-gtg-december-21st.html


----------



## DonH

papasin said:


> Credit goes to JT of JT Audio and Accessories for the install!  You should come hear them too. We'll be in your neck of the woods in a little less than two weeks.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/12-volt-events-team-diyma/157363-socal-gtg-december-21st.html


Well, thank you fro the Link! Looks Like I have something to do that day now! I hope to have a few things done on my truck :laugh:


----------



## strakele

I can echo the Papasin's comments on the NZ3 vs AR3A. I've never heard the RAM so can't comment there.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Great review Richard.


----------



## Rishi S

Melodic Acoustic said:


> Great review Richard.


some1 seems very happy


----------



## Rishi S

Few installs in the Easca Competition

Beberapa Mobil Dengan Speaker 2-Way Di EASCA Bandung | BosMobil.com


----------



## Mindcrime

Very nice!


Rishi S said:


> Few installs in the Easca Competition
> 
> Beberapa Mobil Dengan Speaker 2-Way Di EASCA Bandung | BosMobil.com


----------



## Offroader5

Any news on the 2"? I'd really like to give them a try in my A pillars


----------



## Mindcrime

Offroader5 said:


> Any news on the 2"? I'd really like to give them a try in my A pillars


Just man up and put the NZ up there!


----------



## Rishi S

Offroader5 said:


> Any news on the 2"? I'd really like to give them a try in my A pillars


still in the works


----------



## Rishi S




----------



## Golden Ear

Same to you, Rishi!!!


----------



## piyush7243

Same to you ..


----------



## casey

You too Rishi!

FedEx is on top of things this time of year. Rishi shipped my AR3 on Thursday of last week and they just got here today. Cant wait to go home and get a look at them


----------



## Rishi S

casey said:


> You too Rishi!
> 
> FedEx is on top of things this time of year. Rishi shipped my AR3 on Thursday of last week and they just got here today. Cant wait to go home and get a look at them


Hope you like them


----------



## AUDIO_GOD

did you get shipping cost figured out???


----------



## Rishi S

AUDIO_GOD said:


> did you get shipping cost figured out???


I will notify you after the nzs are ready


----------



## sbeezy

Hey rishi what's the time frame on the 2in mid?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


----------



## JVD240

Also VERY interested in that neo 3".


----------



## Fetus

Hmm... 2" A pillar array, anyone?


----------



## Better n' Reverse

Who do I need to talk to about pricing?


----------



## james2266

Better n' Reverse said:


> Who do I need to talk to about pricing?


Curious of this as well. I PM'd Rishi and Mindcrime for info myself but no response as yet.


----------



## Rishi S

My apologies, I have been travelling as this is my exhibition season so things are a bit hectic on my side.


----------



## james2266

Rishi S said:


> My apologies, I have been travelling as this is my exhibition season so things are a bit hectic on my side.


Hey no problem at all. i certainly understand. I am in no hurry and was more just looking for info at this time than anything else. Your drivers have intrigued me for a while now and hopefully soon I will hear what the fuss is all about.


----------



## Rishi S

james2266 said:


> Hey no problem at all. i certainly understand. I am in no hurry and was more just looking for info at this time than anything else. Your drivers have intrigued me for a while now and hopefully soon I will hear what the fuss is all about.


Thank you for understanding.


----------



## blackhorn

Hi Rishi,

I was wondering if there are any updates on the H 12 sub?


----------



## piyush7243

Exactly some updates please 

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## audiophile25

The speakers you sent me sound great. I just competed in my first contest of the year and was lucky enough to win my class. The judges left me some comments on things I need to work on. I will keep you updated as the season progresses.


----------



## Offroader5

Any news on the 2" ?


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> The speakers you sent me sound great. I just competed in my first contest of the year and was lucky enough to win my class. The judges left me some comments on things I need to work on. I will keep you updated as the season progresses.


Great news  If there is anything you need please let me know.


----------



## Rishi S

Offroader5 said:


> Any news on the 2" ?


the 2" drivers are ready but will be released under a "car audio" brand together with a mid-bass.


----------



## Offroader5

Rishi S said:


> the 2" drivers are ready but will be released under a "car audio" brand together with a mid-bass.


Please tell me it's a 8" midbass  Is this an existing car audio brand or something new that you are putting together? The 2" will still be available seperate though right?


----------



## Rishi S

Offroader5 said:


> Please tell me it's a 8" midbass  Is this an existing car audio brand or something new that you are putting together? The 2" will still be available seperate though right?


8 inch will be too big for the 2


----------



## Offroader5

Rishi S said:


> Thank you Richard.
> 
> Preview of H-12


Any word on these? Pricing, power requirements, enclosure recommendations? Sealed, vented?

Have been thinking lately I'd like to rework my sub stage and 12's are back on the table. Made me think of these


----------



## chithead

Rishi S said:


> 8 inch will be too big for the 2


That's NOT... what she said. :laugh:


----------



## Duckstu

Rishi S said:


> the 2" drivers are ready but will be released under a "car audio" brand together with a mid-bass.


Uh oh,

Will this "car audio" brand be willing to sell them separately?
.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I am interested in pairing an AP mid with a ribbon in my a-pillars. Which AP driver would be best for this application? Thanks!


----------



## papasin

Architect7 said:


> I am interested in pairing an AP mid with a ribbon in my a-pillars. Which AP driver would be best for this application? Thanks!



I personally would suggest the AR3-A.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Cool thanks!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

papasin said:


> I personally would suggest the AR3-A.


One more quick question, would people recommend sealed or IB for the AR3-A from 300hz-5khz?


----------



## papasin

Architect7 said:


> One more quick question, would people recommend sealed or IB for the AR3-A from 300hz-5khz?


My experience with most AP drivers has been very good in sealed, from 300Hz pretty much all the way up.

I did hear the AR3-As fullrange in audiophile25's vehicle and I believe they were IB (I'll let him confirm, or check his build log or PM him). He did quite well in a recent comp with these drivers...IIRC, took 1st in his class by a fair point spread amongst multiple competitors (3 judge format with scores averaged).


----------



## Rishi S

chithead said:


> That's NOT... what she said. :laugh:


lol

Below is a video I just received from a friend.He was competing in Easca and won 2nd place over the weekend 

Ram 3 A in Easca Comp 2nd Place - YouTube


----------



## Rishi S

Duckstu said:


> Uh oh,
> 
> Will this "car audio" brand be willing to sell them separately?
> .


I think that would be possible once they officially release the 2's


----------



## audiophile25

Richard is correct. Mine are ib. They have the little amt tweeter thing mounted right beside them. They are under the factory grill and are high passed at 400 Hz, with a 12dB slope.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Awesome thanks. Is the AMT tweeter still in production/available?


----------



## papasin

Architect7 said:


> Awesome thanks. Is the AMT tweeter still in production/available?


I believe they come with it when ordering the AR3-A, RAM3, or Nz3.


----------



## piyush7243

Yes they are bundled with the above 3 drivers.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Recommendations needed.. 

Ill soon be receiving a set of RAM drivers with the AMT.. (Partail trade deal) These will be used in an 09 Xb. For mid bass ill be running Illusion Audio Carbon C8 and had planned to run my Focal Beryllium tweeters with the C8 set. Now that these RAM are on the way I wonder if it is best to run the 3 and 8 only.. Are their adverse effects of running a seperate tweeter? I have no expieience with these drivers. With respect to all testimonials I have read im not sure what to do..

Run just 3" and AMT with 8", run Focal Be with 3" (no AMT) and 8"? Run Focal Be 3" (w/AMT) and 8"??

Another concern is aiming of the 3" and or in addition the Be tweet. All together off axis, aimed some what seperately.. I will be doing trial and error of coarse but off the top of your heads where should I start.


Power will be all Brax, Helix dsp and completely active regardless.

Thanks to all in advance


----------



## xwfalcon

I have been running 8s and AR3p (no AMT )with scan speak tweeters for a while now i very much enjoy this setup .

I know the Ram will play the highs a bit better than my AR3p ,but i have also tried my NZ3a in this setup with and without tweeters , i find i prefer to run a tweeter .

I have also seen a few people running no tweeter with great results .Listen to them with tweeter and AMT and make your own decision .

I am running one brax amp and one f4600 with alpine dsp all active.I also running a twelve inch sub in a very small ute (pick up ).


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Thanks for the input^

How is your aiming, are you dialed in with 3 and tweet together? On or off axis?

Another question I just thought of for those who run 3 and tweet together are we cutting off 3 at some certain point or letting it roll off naturally..


----------



## xwfalcon

I run my 3s from 200hz @12db to 5khz @12db but im still trialing with low pass point has been as low as 3.5khz and high as 6.5khz.

Same with position im still trialing ,but i have found i like the 3s on axis still trialing tweet position on and off axis .


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Try try and try some more.. Story of our lives dialing things in huh. Ha. Gotta love it.


----------



## bertholomey

I'm using the RAMs on my desk in speaker boxes that I built - near field, on axis and I love them. I don't have a set of the AMTs right now, but I liked the sound of the RAMs+AMT - directly on axis (just a 300 hz crossover at 12 db off of a Peachtree Nova). 

In the car with the right install (Papasin), they can be extremely satisfying with a tweeter. If you have the amp channels and DSP (which it sounds like you do), I would certainly run those awesome tweeters with the RAMs - would have a fantastic platform - especially paired with the 8's.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Wow thats great to hear, as soon as things settle down for me ill be making some pc speakers as well. I have a plethera of raw drivers as choices, including some Arians.

As for running without the AMT and being satisfied, ive heard that before also. I guess I just really need to try all scenario's.

As for power and channels Im covered. Brax X2400.2 -4 ch and a pair of X2000.2 -2 ch amps will be my arsenal. Not sure on configuration yet, likely 4ch on 3, tweet and a 2 ch for 8" and another on sub. Sub stage is still up in the air, several choices. Was planning on running my Focal 46kx4 18" but thats when I was going to run my Mosconi, those have since been sold and im not sure the X2000.2 will drive the 18 right. Probably would but im still thinking on sub stage.


----------



## bertholomey

bertholomey said:


> I'm using the RAMs on my desk in speaker boxes that I built - near field, on axis and I love them. I don't have a set of the AMTs right now, but I liked the sound of the RAMs+AMT - directly on axis (just a 300 hz crossover at 12 db off of a Peachtree Nova).
> 
> In the car with the right install (Papasin), they can be extremely satisfying with *no tweeter (using the AMT)*. If you have the amp channels and DSP (which it sounds like you do), I would certainly run those awesome tweeters with the RAMs - would have a fantastic platform - especially paired with the 8's.





deeppinkdiver said:


> Wow thats great to hear, as soon as things settle down for me ill be making some pc speakers as well. I have a plethera of raw drivers as choices, including some Arians.
> 
> As for running without the AMT and being satisfied, ive heard that before also. I guess I just really need to try all scenario's. *I fixed it above - typing at 0615 on my phone should be discouraged *
> 
> As for power and channels Im covered. Brax X2400.2 -4 ch and a pair of X2000.2 -2 ch amps will be my arsenal. Not sure on configuration yet, likely 4ch on 3, tweet and a 2 ch for 8" and another on sub. Sub stage is still up in the air, several choices. Was planning on running my Focal 46kx4 18" but thats when I was going to run my Mosconi, those have since been sold and im not sure the X2000.2 will drive the 18 right. Probably would but im still thinking on sub stage.


Sounds like a very solid plan. 

Pic of my desk speaker for reference (mated with a 10" powered sub ):


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Those look great! Sealed enclosure to Rishi spec or are those open back?

Im very unfamiliar with pc audio powering. What is the (peachtree nova) amp? Pardon my lack of knowledge on this one..


Sounds like a very cool and simplictic set up, 3" mids 10" sub. Short and sweet..ha


----------



## bertholomey

deeppinkdiver said:


> Those look great! Sealed enclosure to Rishi spec or are those open back?
> 
> Im very unfamiliar with pc audio powering. What is the (peachtree nova) amp? Pardon my lack of knowledge on this one..


These are sealed, simple crossover from Parts Express, based on this design: 

Zaphaudio speaker design

Peachtree Nova - I have a previous model than this

Nova Integrated Amplifier

So the RAMs are seeing about 80 wpc - beautiful sound - near field, on-axis. I think you will be very pleased with the tonality of these drivers, their range, and power handling.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Great info, thanks for the links! Will read up on those as I have time.

Ive heard great things over and over about the 3" offerings from AP and these were the last acquisition to my build, felt like I needed something between my tweet and 8" to help midrange vocals and details.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Boy that Nova is a pricey little booger.. Sounds like the ideal package for how your using it. It seems to be packed full of great processing while having some what of a 70's classic look. I like it- so that one may end up on my list, but it will be waaay down there. lol


----------



## papasin

bertholomey said:


> In the car with the right install (Papasin), they can be extremely satisfying with a tweeter. If you have the amp channels and DSP (which it sounds like you do), I would certainly run those awesome tweeters with the RAMs - would have a fantastic platform - especially paired with the 8's.



Actually (see post 186), I ran both the Nz3s and the RAMs with just the AMTs (no tweeter). Midrange and top end were great and had my highest scores in those categories...but very install dependent and would also suggest trying with and without a tweeter if you have the room and amp channels. In addition to sound preference, keep in mind that if you are able to skip the tweeter you also improve phase coherence and end up not splitting the vocals across separate drivers. Not everyone is sensitive to phase variance, so that might not matter as much but I know someone who is very sensitive.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

deeppinkdiver said:


> Boy that Nova is a pricey little booger.. Sounds like the ideal package for how your using it. It seems to be packed full of great processing while having some what of a 70's classic look. I like it- so that one may end up on my list, but it will be waaay down there. lol


A good friend of mine showed me his Nova 125 recently, those things are no joke. Great sound!


----------



## Rishi S

bertholomey said:


> Sounds like a very solid plan.
> 
> Pic of my desk speaker for reference (mated with a 10" powered sub ):


I like this alot


----------



## Golden Ear

Rishi S said:


> I like this alot


Same here. Nice job on those Jason!


----------



## robtr8

If you're interested in good PC sound, you might look at the Meridian Explorer DAC.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

papasin said:


> Actually (see post 186), I ran both the Nz3s and the RAMs with just the AMTs (no tweeter). Midrange and top end were great and had my highest scores in those categories...but very install dependent and would also suggest trying with and without a tweeter if you have the room and amp channels. In addition to sound preference, keep in mind that if you are able to skip the tweeter you also improve phase coherence and end up not splitting the vocals across separate drivers. Not everyone is sensitive to phase variance, so that might not matter as much but I know someone who is very sensitive.


Will head back to that post to read in a few. One of my concerns with having the multiple drivers was cancellation (?) and phase between them thats why I wondered if they should be crossed at seperate points, as in even though the 3" can play up to the top should it be cut off (in general, trial and real sound should determine this) or play along with the tweeter together running same freq..


----------



## deeppinkdiver

robtr8 said:


> If you're interested in good PC sound, you might look at the Meridian Explorer DAC.


Thanks for that tip ^ Robtr8. I just recently had a HTPC built by Victor and need to devise a plan of what to run it through (need everything) and what to use right at the desk top for my chill spot. Ill put this on the list of things to check out.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Just picked up a pair of AR3-A from strakele on here and will be pairing them with RAAL 70-10D ribbons in my A-pillars. Can't wait!


----------



## blackhorn

papasin said:


> Actually (see post 186), I ran both the Nz3s and the RAMs with just the AMTs (no tweeter) In addition to sound preference, keep in mind that if you are able to skip the tweeter you also improve phase coherence and end up not splitting the vocals across separate drivers.


i agree a hundred percent, more over i feel that the more drivers their are, the system becomes more complicated and difficult to tune(not all that difficult if you have an rta at hand) you'll have to even out peaks from two sets of drivers instead of one, but look at it like this, why use the RAM's at all if you want to use as a mid range as anyone will vouch for the fact that the AR3A are better for mid range use and the RAM's are better for a tweeter less install due to the presence of a phase plug, which is why it makes sense to use them in an on axis arrangement, i have it on axis on the passenger side and about 20 degrees off axis on the driver side, but even so the imaging is good, and i haven't felt the absence of detail at high frequency, and the sound stage sounds well integrated, the AMT's are doing their job well 

















its a personal preference but i would eliminate any potential complications wherever possible

this thread made for some interesting reading when i was setting my xo's
Crossover Basics


----------



## deeppinkdiver

I realize the extra time and effort and possible stress involved trying to dial in the tweeter and the RAM together and am very happy to hear from several users that its better (RAM) on its on. When I decided I wanted to add a 3 inch on the pillars upfront I really had no idea which one would be best. It was ironic that a recent trade involved the RAM as partial payment, so it wasnt something I had truely researched and chose to buy. It just worked out this way. 

Your pillars look fantastic blackhorn, as do papasin's. I'm taking bits and pieces from everything that I see to incorporate into my own A-pillar build. I have much testing to do, of course need to finish my amplifier install first.

Thanks guys -love the comments!

I was hoping to figure out what program software I can run in order to do RTA in the car myself. Just another thing on my to-do list before tuning.

Also thanks for the link..


----------



## james2266

deeppinkdiver said:


> I realize the extra time and effort and possible stress involved trying to dial in the tweeter and the RAM together and am very happy to hear from several users that its better (RAM) on its on. When I decided I wanted to add a 3 inch on the pillars upfront I really had no idea which one would be best. It was ironic that a recent trade involved the RAM as partial payment, so it wasnt something I had truely researched and chose to buy. It just worked out this way.
> 
> Your pillars look fantastic blackhorn, as do papasin's. I'm taking bits and pieces from everything that I see to incorporate into my own A-pillar build. I have much testing to do, of course need to finish my amplifier install first.
> 
> Thanks guys -love the comments!
> 
> I was hoping to figure out what program software I can run in order to do RTA in the car myself. Just another thing on my to-do list before tuning.
> 
> Also thanks for the link..


I read back a few posts that you had the Focal w3 utopia drivers as well. I am about 100% sold on getting the ar3/a to replace my Fountek fr89ex drivers. They will be pairing up in a 3 way front with the Morel mw265 (8 inch) on the low and the Scan illum D3004 tweets up top. My pillars orient the drivers close to on axis from the pass. side and about 30 degrees off on the driver's side. The reason I ask about the Focal drivers is they were the best sounding 3 incher I have heard to my ears and have not been lucky enough to hear any AP driver yet. What did/do you like about the AP over the Focal or vice versa. The w3 is a little out of my budget (unless your selling maybe) so I am seriously looking at AP. Another reason is they would be a drop in replacement and I already have grills that will fit them perfectly.

As for rta software, I have used several but the one I keep going back to is Tru-RTA. It is a breeze to use for quick measurements and has some nice features if you can get at least 1/6 Oct resolution. If you want completely free, I have found Room EQ Wizard (REW) to be good. Arta is also nice and m,ore powerful but you have to pay if you want to save anything for later. Really didn't like that so I stopped using it.


----------



## james2266

Everybody's quiet now? I just want some more info from people that have actually heard these drivers. The Papasin's have been a wealth of info but what does everyone else have to say?


----------



## papasin

james2266 said:


> Everybody's quiet now? I just want some more info from people that have actually heard these drivers. The Papasin's have been a wealth of info but what does everyone else have to say?


James, is there some specific info you are looking that you need someone to answer? Folks can only do so much to describe them, and I think I've been pretty open as to which one I would personally use based on the install and whether paired with a tweeter or not. For those that have used them, we can give all the accolades that we can, but my experience is these are fairly well designed (kudos to Rishi) and when installed correctly, are fairly easy to tune (in my experience of running the various ones).

For specific people who have heard/used them, here are some folks that I am aware of that have experience with them:

strakele has used AP drivers even longer than I have (original AR Duo, Nz3 Duo, etc.)
Golden Ear should be able to give some impressions on a well tuned set of Nzs shortly (in his work truck)
audiophile25 just won a 3x comp (with 3 judges averaged) with the AR3-As in his vehicle in MECA mod street

Anyway, feel free to pose specific question(s), and folks that have used them will I imagine be happy to answer them. Otherwise, kind of hard to answer an open ended question.


----------



## james2266

papasin said:


> James, is there some specific info you are looking that you need someone to answer? Folks can only do so much to describe them, and I think I've been pretty open as to which one I would personally use based on the install and whether paired with a tweeter or not. For those that have used them, we can give all the accolades that we can, but my experience is these are fairly well designed (kudos to Rishi) and when installed correctly, are fairly easy to tune (in my experience of running the various ones).
> 
> For specific people who have heard/used them, here are some folks that I am aware of that have experience with them:
> 
> strakele has used AP drivers even longer than I have (original AR Duo, Nz3 Duo, etc.)
> Golden Ear should be able to give some impressions on a well tuned set of Nzs shortly (in his work truck)
> audiophile25 just won a 3x comp (with 3 judges averaged) with the AR3-As in his vehicle in MECA mod street
> 
> Anyway, feel free to pose specific question(s), and folks that have used them will I imagine be happy to answer them. Otherwise, kind of hard to answer an open ended question.


Just looking for as many opinions on them as I can and was hoping for a comparison to the Focal w3 as I believe someone mentioned on here they had both sets of drivers. As I said, I am pretty much 100% on grabbing the ar3/a that you and Linda suggested to be the best for my setup. I am just tired of buying drivers for my midrange and being disappointed. I guess if I hate them I could always sell them on here and go back to the Fountek's until something better comes along. I am not saying I am going to hate them of course. I was also kind of hoping for some inside info on the build differences between the fr89ex I am running and the ar3/a that I am looking at. Rishi did build them both I am told so was just hoping. What has me looking at these is a hope to get more bandwidth and cross them lower than the Fountek's. Hoping for in the ball park of 200-5kHz or maybe even 6 kHz without inducing any added distortion.


----------



## strakele

I haven't heard the W3 as far as I remember. The AR3-A is probably fairly similar in sound and response to the FR89ex, but the AR3-A is more efficient which is nice. I don't think they'll play any lower though. 200Hz with a steep slope and not going overboard on volume should be ok, but you'll want to be careful. Do you intend to use them IB or in a sealed enclosure? I've run all my AP drivers IB in my pillars crossing between 300 and 400Hz. May have tried 250 for competition, but I like to rock out, so I usually have the crossover set higher. I usually use a good bit of power on them too.


----------



## james2266

strakele said:


> I haven't heard the W3 as far as I remember. The AR3-A is probably fairly similar in sound and response to the FR89ex, but the AR3-A is more efficient which is nice. I don't think they'll play any lower though. 200Hz with a steep slope and not going overboard on volume should be ok, but you'll want to be careful. Do you intend to use them IB or in a sealed enclosure? I've run all my AP drivers IB in my pillars crossing between 300 and 400Hz. May have tried 250 for competition, but I like to rock out, so I usually have the crossover set higher. I usually use a good bit of power on them too.


I have mine running as you do. ib in the apillars. I have a good amount of ensolite in behind the drivers and lining the inside of the apillars to try to kill some of the back wave. It did seem to smooth things out a little but it could of been my imagination too I have my fr89ex cut at 315/24 I believe and they do sound fairly good to me. I would love to move down to at least 250/24 or even better 200/24. I just want to make sure they can handle that with good output and no chance of damage. I was told the fr89ex have pretty nasty 2nd order distortion starting around 4500 Hz if I recall so had to cross them at 3700 Hz. I would love to get up to a 5 kHz/24 cross so as to more eliminate any potential phase issues. Has anyone done extensive testing on the ar3/a like distortion testing?

Oh, and you say more sensitive than my fr89ex but if I recall the numbers don't support that. If I recall (don't have specs of either handy) they are pretty much equal. I have the 4 ohm versions too for what its worth. I guess ultimately I want to know if there is going to be a large improvement in sound as there is a fairly large movement in price and I am fairly happy with the fr89ex too actually - just want more.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

james2266 said:


> I read back a few posts that you had the Focal w3 utopia drivers as well. I am about 100% sold on getting the ar3/a to replace my Fountek fr89ex drivers. They will be pairing up in a 3 way front with the Morel mw265 (8 inch) on the low and the Scan illum D3004 tweets up top. My pillars orient the drivers close to on axis from the pass. side and about 30 degrees off on the driver's side. The reason I ask about the Focal drivers is they were the best sounding 3 incher I have heard to my ears and have not been lucky enough to hear any AP driver yet. What did/do you like about the AP over the Focal or vice versa. The w3 is a little out of my budget (unless your selling maybe) so I am seriously looking at AP. Another reason is they would be a drop in replacement and I already have grills that will fit them perfectly.
> 
> As for rta software, I have used several but the one I keep going back to is Tru-RTA. It is a breeze to use for quick measurements and has some nice features if you can get at least 1/6 Oct resolution. If you want completely free, I have found Room EQ Wizard (REW) to be good. Arta is also nice and m,ore powerful but you have to pay if you want to save anything for later. Really didn't like that so I stopped using it.




Sorry James I just seen this. I only have the Tweeter from the Focal Be set up and its still bnib. Ive heard these before but only with Arian 6.5" drivers which sounded very very good! That Arian is also the only AP driver I have ever heard.

I planned on trying the TRu-RTA first with my Helix DSP to see if that will suffice dialing things in. I still need to get a good mic for tunning.

I am familiar with the Scan D2904-600000 and those are true audiophile tweeters in my own opinion!


----------



## papasin

james2266 said:


> I have my fr89ex cut at 315/24 I believe and they do sound fairly good to me. I would love to move down to at least 250/24 or even better 200/24.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't think there is a 3" that I would run at 250/24 and especially 200/24 IB. Could they be run at these crossovers, sure...but I doubt with any sense of impact or volume that I would be happy with. My main experience with the AP offerings personally have been in sealed in ~0.7L. When I tried the various AP offerings sealed, I got them to perform at 250/24 well and the cone barely moved even at high volumes. My $0.02. FWIW.


----------



## blackhorn

james2266 said:


> Hoping for in the ball park of 200-5kHz or maybe even 6 kHz without inducing any added distortion.


i am currently running them upwards of 400hz, but the lower i go the detail seems to disappear, for me the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, on the hpf aspect i don't think you'll have a problem, they can play easily above 15khz, some people run them open too(tweeterless setup), but i have them at 15khz sloped to 6db/oct to counteract the spike i hear which is also what you see in the response graph or maybe i just like a well leveled sound

but my only question is why would you want to run them so low?


----------



## james2266

blackhorn said:


> i am currently running them upwards of 400hz, but the lower i go the detail seems to disappear, for me the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, on the hpf aspect i don't think you'll have a problem, they can play easily above 15khz, some people run them open too(tweeterless setup), but i have them at 15khz sloped to 6db/oct to counteract the spike i hear which is also what you see in the response graph or maybe i just like a well leveled sound
> 
> but my only question is why would you want to run them so low?


I guess I want flexibility most of all. I also thought it was the goal to get as much vocal bandpass as possible from one driver up high for best imaging. Then again, in my current setup, I am not unhappy with 315/24 on the fr89ex. Maybe it is curiosity more than anything. 

Deeppink... thanks for the clarification on the Focals. I thought you had mentioned the 3 inch before. My mistake. 

I did find a rather nice thread last night on an apparent indian audio website about these drivers that was quite enlightening too. I think I am going to just have to bite the bullet and grab a set of those ar3a as everyone I've talked too has said they would work best of the AP drivers. From the descriptions of them, I tend to agree with that. You guys will likely have another AP fan soon.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

No problem bud. Glad to help, if and when I can.

Im also intrigued by the ar3a. Ill try my luck with the RAM and go from there. We can never have enough high quality drivers on the shelf I say.. Ill likely grab some of the ar3a's way before Ill get a chance to try them, it is my nature.


----------



## piyush7243

james2266 said:


> I guess I want flexibility most of all. I also thought it was the goal to get as much vocal bandpass as possible from one driver up high for best imaging. Then again, in my current setup, I am not unhappy with 315/24 on the fr89ex. Maybe it is curiosity more than anything.
> 
> Deeppink... thanks for the clarification on the Focals. I thought you had mentioned the 3 inch before. My mistake.
> 
> I did find a rather nice thread last night on an apparent indian audio website about these drivers that was quite enlightening too. I think I am going to just have to bite the bullet and grab a set of those ar3a as everyone I've talked too has said they would work best of the AP drivers. From the descriptions of them, I tend to agree with that. You guys will likely have another AP fan soon.


By any chance did you go through gearheads.in


----------



## james2266

piyush7243 said:


> By any chance did you go through gearheads.in


Yep, that's the one and you were quite active in that thread. Thanks for that. I am still a little worried I won't notice a great enough improvement for how much of an investment they are over my Fountek's but sometimes you just have to try stuff out for yourself. After all in the long run it isn't that huge an investment especially when you consider that they should be fairly easy to sell if they don't work out for me.


----------



## bertholomey

I feel confident that you will enjoy them once they are installed and tuned....I believe you won't look back. I've used the XRs and the RAMs, and I think these are all fantastic products. Well designed, great materials, and consistent manufacturing.


----------



## james2266

bertholomey said:


> I feel confident that you will enjoy them once they are installed and tuned....I believe you won't look back. I've used the XRs and the RAMs, and I think these are all fantastic products. Well designed, great materials, and consistent manufacturing.


I have actually been quiet impressed with my current Fountek's already. I mean for less than $100 a pair they are impressive. Probably the reason I keep coming back to the AP drivers. I don't think I have ever heard a bad comment about the ar3a yet when it comes to how I intend to use it - as a dedicated midrange with a solid midbass and tweeter surrounding it in the frequency spectrum. The only thing I really want that I don't have with the Founteks are a little more bandpass (really want at least 250 Hz-5kHz ultimately) and I think the ar3a will do that in spades. The other thing I am hoping for is alot less eq at the bottom end of that. I had to use all the eq I had available (-12db) to tame my driver's fr89ex at 400 Hz. I think I still had to use about -9db on the pass. side too. I still have a tiny bump at 400 Hz on the rta. Would love for it to be completely flat there without having to go to a higher hi-pass. We'll see if the AP driver is a little more behaved down there. I am going to go ahead and order up a set.

Does anyone happen to have a set of the ar3a they are looking to move? If not I will just grab a new set - can never beat new


----------



## subwoofery

james2266 said:


> I have actually been quiet impressed with my current Fountek's already. I mean for less than $100 a pair they are impressive. Probably the reason I keep coming back to the AP drivers. I don't think I have ever heard a bad comment about the ar3a yet when it comes to how I intend to use it - as a dedicated midrange with a solid midbass and tweeter surrounding it in the frequency spectrum. The only thing I really want that I don't have with the Founteks are a little more bandpass (really want at least 250 Hz-5kHz ultimately) and I think the ar3a will do that in spades. The other thing I am hoping for is alot less eq at the bottom end of that. I had to use all the eq I had available (-12db) to tame my driver's fr89ex at 400 Hz. I think I still had to use about -9db on the pass. side too. I still have a tiny bump at 400 Hz on the rta. Would love for it to be completely flat there without having to go to a higher hi-pass. We'll see if the AP driver is a little more behaved down there. I am going to go ahead and order up a set.
> 
> Does anyone happen to have a set of the ar3a they are looking to move? If not I will just grab a new set - can never beat new


Regarding your 400Hz bump, I actually think that it's a vehicle related bump and not driver related. Swapping drivers might actually need less cut (12dB vs maybe 10) but the bump will still be there. 

I would actually suggest you use a higher highpass and try to blend with your midbass. In the process, you will have a bigger cone to reproduce the lower midrange, less distortion from crossing your midrange higher and more potential to play your system louder if need be. 

Use your Xovers before the EQ, you'll be rewarded in the long run. 

Letting most of the vocal cues be reproduce by 1 pair of drivers not really nonsense... but it's not a requirement in order to produce good sound. Just look at home audio towers that have the Xover right in the middle (1.6kHz-2.5kHz) 

Kelvin 


Kelvin


----------



## piyush7243

james2266 said:


> Yep, that's the one and you were quite active in that thread. Thanks for that. I am still a little worried I won't notice a great enough improvement for how much of an investment they are over my Fountek's but sometimes you just have to try stuff out for yourself. After all in the long run it isn't that huge an investment especially when you consider that they should be fairly easy to sell if they don't work out for me.


Yeah the Thread was started by me and i am representing AP in India.

The drivers were probably designed by Rishi but the quality of components put into each driver justifies the higher cost of AP over Fountek's

Also you would see a stronger magnet as compared to Fountek and a much smoother response curve when compared to Fountek.

Rest all you would have to hear the differences and trust me they would be audible


----------



## james2266

subwoofery said:


> Regarding your 400Hz bump, I actually think that it's a vehicle related bump and not driver related. Swapping drivers might actually need less cut (12dB vs maybe 10) but the bump will still be there.
> 
> I would actually suggest you use a higher highpass and try to blend with your midbass. In the process, you will have a bigger cone to reproduce the lower midrange, less distortion from crossing your midrange higher and more potential to play your system louder if need be.
> 
> Use your Xovers before the EQ, you'll be rewarded in the long run.
> 
> Letting most of the vocal cues be reproduce by 1 pair of drivers not really nonsense... but it's not a requirement in order to produce good sound. Just look at home audio towers that have the Xover right in the middle (1.6kHz-2.5kHz)
> 
> Kelvin
> 
> 
> Kelvin


Yes, yes, I have tried higher hi-passes on my midranges before and was not satisfied when it came to imaging. Tonality might of been better and yes it probably did play louder but to be honest, it gets too loud now the way it is for me if I let it.

As for the home audio comparison, I don't see how it relates. That crossover is in the vocal spectrum sure but the drivers are always on the same plane and literally inches from one another usually. Also, do not have the reflection issues to contend with. I am not saying it can't be done in a car as I have gotten it pretty close before using a higher cross point but it is alot easier with a low cross point in my experience and it has always sounded better to my ears.



piyush7243 said:


> Yeah the Thread was started by me and i am representing AP in India.
> 
> The drivers were probably designed by Rishi but the quality of components put into each driver justifies the higher cost of AP over Fountek's
> 
> Also you would see a stronger magnet as compared to Fountek and a much smoother response curve when compared to AR3-A.
> 
> Rest all you would have to hear the differences and trust me they would be audible


Thanks for chipping in with that. Makes me want them even more. I am really curious what 'more added weight in my midrange' will sound like really. I truly do hope they do look better on the rta too. Would be nice to use a little less eq in the end. Have you ever had any issues with rising distortion on the ar3a that you've heard? I am just curious if there is a limit to how high it will run cleanly. No I am not interested in running it full range at all - just curious how much of the vocal cues I can get out of it before handing off to my Scan Illum. tweeters.


----------



## james2266

piyush7243 said:


> Also you would see a stronger magnet as compared to Fountek and a much smoother response curve when compared to AR3-A.


Also, I assume you meant fr89ex here and not meaning the AP driver would measure worse.


----------



## piyush7243

james2266 said:


> Also, I assume you meant fr89ex here and not meaning the AP driver would measure worse.


Thanks , corrected it out..


----------



## subwoofery

james2266 said:


> Yes, yes, I have tried higher hi-passes on my midranges before and was not satisfied when it came to imaging. Tonality might of been better and yes it probably did play louder but to be honest, it gets too loud now the way it is for me if I let it.
> Not succeeding in getting good imaging is more of a tuning issue... It's not easy - I'm still fighting with some imaging issues but it's higher in the frequency range.
> I usually don't cross my midbasses higher than 500Hz due to the phase problem you get with door mounted midbass.
> I've seen a few people on the forum that started with the same kind of knowledge that you need to cross the midrange as low as possible (160Hz being the best if it can handle it) but only a handful that tried to cross higher than the norm and reading on their comments, it's only for the better.
> I've read many times Andy Wehmeyer stating that you just need to spread the chaos in a car, as long as phase problems are taken care of - easier said than done but he's actually right
> 
> As for the home audio comparison, I don't see how it relates. That crossover is in the vocal spectrum sure but the drivers are always on the same plane and literally inches from one another usually. Also, do not have the reflection issues to contend with. I am not saying it can't be done in a car as I have gotten it pretty close before using a higher cross point but it is alot easier with a low cross point in my experience and it has always sounded better to my ears.
> Drivers being on the same plane doesn't mean they are timed aligned - that's why you see some speakers that have tilted baffles.
> As long as you have the Xover point right and the midrange not too far from the tweeter, you can manage to make them sound as if they were 1 driver.
> Mating a midbass to a midrange is IME much easier - especially with the type of processors we have available nowadays.
> 
> I won't force you into doing things but really, give it another shoot. Set your Xovers and play with T/A until both drivers sound as one. You have a few threads that can help you set your T/A. Erin even introduced a spreadsheet that can calculate it for you


Kelvin


----------



## Rishi S

speaking about the 89ex please view below.



This is the Trinity Mk 2 quite similar looking to the 89 ex but built to our spec.I would say its more of a mid range driver than a full range.You may see a significant difference in cone and cap shape. its 4 ohms with a dual neo motor design.


----------



## Golden Ear

That's a sweet looking driver Rishi!


----------



## Rishi S

Golden Ear said:


> That's a sweet looking driver Rishi!


Thank you sir


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Yeah that's really sexy!! 

Do we have a list price yet?


----------



## Rishi S

deeppinkdiver said:


> Yeah that's really sexy!!
> 
> Do we have a list price yet?


Roughly in $150 range


----------



## deeppinkdiver

With the testing that you have done so far is it safe to say you can run that and a midbass driver alone or do you suggest a 3 way?


----------



## Rishi S

deeppinkdiver said:


> With the testing that you have done so far is it safe to say you can run that and a midbass driver alone or do you suggest a 3 way?


3way will be best option.


----------



## piyush7243

Is it 3". I might want a pair to check..


----------



## james2266

Still interested in the differences in all of these drivers to my fr89ex. Yes, this new Trinity does look quite similar as does the nz3 really too but what is different internally amongst these and what can I expect different sonically. I am actually now set on the ar3/a being best for me but if there is minimal difference between this new Trinity and the ar3/a and it is substantially cheaper; well.... Just curious that's all. Do we have any specs on this new trinity too?


----------



## Rishi S

james2266 said:


> Still interested in the differences in all of these drivers to my fr89ex. Yes, this new Trinity does look quite similar as does the nz3 really too but what is different internally amongst these and what can I expect different sonically. I am actually now set on the ar3/a being best for me but if there is minimal difference between this new Trinity and the ar3/a and it is substantially cheaper; well.... Just curious that's all. Do we have any specs on this new trinity too?


Looks are similar but design and applications are different.

Ap drivers are designed for different applications. The cone is lighter in weight and differrent shape with a diferrent alloy mix. Coil material,suspension and surround material also differ. Nz's focus is more in high range while Ar's for lower.

The trinity mk2 is an older driver and are mass produced.

Now why ap drivers are more costly??? 

May be because I build them lol


----------



## james2266

Rishi S said:


> Looks are similar but design and applications are different.
> 
> Ap drivers are designed for different applications. The cone is lighter in weight and differrent shape with a diferrent alloy mix. Coil material,suspension and surround material also differ. Nz's focus is more in high range while Ar's for lower.
> 
> The trinity mk2 is an older driver and are mass produced.
> 
> Now why ap drivers are more costly???
> 
> May be because I build them lol


Rishi, thanks for the inside info. It actually does help put a few of these drivers in perspective a little for me. I also was not trying to say the AP drivers were overpriced by any means either. Far from it and one of the reasons I am looking at them. Just want to make sure I am getting the right one for me. I am certain that the ar3/a is it for me right now when it comes to AP drivers. I also love that they are drop in and I have grills for them too already. That is once it warms up enough to do some light (hopefully) modifications to make them fit. I can't wait to hear what exactly they bring to my setup once I get them in my hands.


----------



## Rishi S

james2266 said:


> Rishi, thanks for the inside info. It actually does help put a few of these drivers in perspective a little for me. I also was not trying to say the AP drivers were overpriced by any means either. Far from it and one of the reasons I am looking at them. Just want to make sure I am getting the right one for me. I am certain that the ar3/a is it for me right now when it comes to AP drivers. I also love that they are drop in and I have grills for them too already. That is once it warms up enough to do some light (hopefully) modifications to make them fit. I can't wait to hear what exactly they bring to my setup once I get them in my hands.


I understand completely.I would also like to share about why I started Ap. Its just my passion and not a business.In oem field (main business ) of speaker design we have to exchange ideas with clients/brand engineers, building to their request and expectations also keeping budget in consideration. In ap's case its all me.I like to build these toys for my own listening pleasure and for those who share the same passion.Some may like my work, some may not. That's human nature.We just have to respect opinions of others.


----------



## Rishi S

Happy Birthday MrsPapasin


----------



## MrsPapasin

Rishi S said:


> Happy Birthday MrsPapasin


Thank you, Rishi!


----------



## Velozity

Is there a 4" wideband available yet or in the works? I'm really enjoying my NZ3/a and for my next install I can go bigger on the driver size. Just curious.


----------



## Rishi S

Velozity said:


> Is there a 4" wideband available yet or in the works? I'm really enjoying my NZ3/a and for my next install I can go bigger on the driver size. Just curious.


I am so sorry  haven't started on a 4 inch yet. I am afraid it will still take a while.Still tied up with some projects.


----------



## casey

Hey Rishi, when will the 6" 2" set be available?


----------



## AUDIO_GOD

Does AP sell any product??? I have been trying to purchase product for some of my customers since last November and have not had any luck. Is there a distributor in the US that i can source from or does the product just come direct 
from the factory???


----------



## Rishi S

AUDIO_GOD said:


> Does AP sell any product??? I have been trying to purchase product for some of my customers since last November and have not had any luck. Is there a distributor in the US that i can source from or does the product just come direct
> from the factory???


What products you need?I will ask some friends here to assist you


----------



## AUDIO_GOD

Rishi S said:


> What products you need?I will ask some friends here to assist you


i need all that are in production... i was trying to have a demo car done for the Mid-West Electronics show April 17th and 18th in Lawrence KS i thought that i could debut your product and get plenty exposure for shops in the mid-west but i think that would be kinda of a time crunch now


----------



## Rishi S

casey said:


> Hey Rishi, when will the 6" 2" set be available?


I will notify you asap


----------



## mikechec9

Peace, Rishi

I've been attempting to determine the difference between the Melodic Acoustic Ascension and the AP RAM3 (I didn't know if it might be more appropriate to pm so I did but received no response).

Also can you expound on the proprietary R.A.M. technology? My abject apologies if it has already been stated elsewhere.


----------



## Rishi S

mikechec9 said:


> Peace, Rishi
> 
> I've been attempting to determine the difference between the Melodic Acoustic Ascension and the AP RAM3 (I didn't know if it might be more appropriate to pm so I did but received no response).
> 
> Also can you expound on the proprietary R.A.M. technology? My abject apologies if it has already been stated elsewhere.



Its the same driver. About the RAM technology maybe Mark is simply implying regarding cone design which is a proprietary to AP


----------



## mikechec9

Many thanks. So there is no "ram" technology per se, but rather the same cone design of the AP RAM3?


----------



## Rishi S

mikechec9 said:


> Many thanks. So there is no "ram" technology per se, but rather the same cone design of the AP RAM3?


Its the same cone. Are you facing some issues?


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

That would be correct Mike in what Rishi is saying in the reading. The technology design is only used in the RAM design. So yes there is RAM technology or topology.


----------



## mikechec9

Overstood. A multitude of thanks.


----------



## audiophile25

Had this made for the truck.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

I like it ^


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> Had this made for the truck.


Wow that's really nice  and Thank You


----------



## piyush7243

^Looks kickass

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## papasin

audiophile25 said:


> Had this made for the truck.



Very nice Mr. M.


----------



## james2266

A couple weeks ago, I received a little package from Indonesia.  Ok, first the shots comparing the AR3/a to my old Fountek fr89ex










That big ass on the ar3/a did pose a slight problem but nothing that my dremel could not handle. I think the drivers will breath a wee bit better now because of it anyways. I also took the opportunity to chamfer the backside of the baffle as I really think it was needed and especially on these drivers due to the wide magnet. 

It was all I could do to not post on here the day I got them in and playing as I really wanted to but also wanted to give them some time to break in a little as well. These probably have about 20 hours or so on them and I have noticed a few minor changes in them tonality wise but I must say these are the nicest sounding 3s that I have tried yet. They are so smooth and detailed that it is quite amazing. If I had to compare them to anything I would compare to something like the Scan 12m which is much larger. Impressive! I have been tuning these the past week or so with my newly acquired Omnimic v2 and have them dialed in quite nicely. I did notice a similar large rise in the lower midrange (800-400 Hz) like the Fountek's but it was a little easier to tame than before and I must say these sound completely different than the Founteks even if they were supposedly built in the same build house as the AP drivers. The ar3/a has far superior detail and tonality to the fr89ex and I am not saying the Fountek's were bad at all. I was fairly happy with them and everyone that heard them had nice things to say about them too. These ar3/a drivers are a large step forward however still. They match up very nicely with both my Scan Illum tweets and my Morel 8 inch midbasses. Anyways, I just wanted to share some of my findings. I also want to thank Richard for all his help and guidance here and Rishi for making such a fine driver and getting them to me in such a quick effortless way. Packing was awesome and shipping took just a hair over a week. Impressive man. I'll end with a few more shots I took of them before I installed them. I will see about getting some measurements possibly in time too if anyone wants.


----------



## itsmeferry

Hi All... Im from Indonesia n sorry for my bad english  

So Anybody can help me ? I've been looking midbass for my system now.. Right now i've p99rs + tw hustler enigma midrange trinity mk2 and midbass ar65 but it was blown n i dont know why it can broken  sub i've alpine sw x series  n for now i need recommended midbass for me  thx


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Euphoria if you can find them


----------



## itsmeferry

Sorry is Euphoria an brand of midbass? Bcoz i never hear that brand in Indonesia


----------



## 2010hummerguy

itsmeferry said:


> Sorry is Euphoria an brand of midbass? Bcoz i never hear that brand in Indonesia


Here are the ones to look for:
Melodic Acoustics Euphoria
Audible Physics H6MB

I'm sure others will comment if a newer midbass is available.


----------



## itsmeferry

Oh... I know if U called H6MB but for Euphoria ... Out of my mind heheheeeee...
What difference about my "ex" midbass ar65 with this new one? And can i know what midbass that look like seas lotus but that brand is ap/h audio  with phase plug laaaaaaa


----------



## deeppinkdiver

From James2266- A couple weeks ago, I received a little package from Indonesia. Ok, first the shots comparing the AR3/a to my old Fountek fr89ex


Very nice little write up James. Looking forward to seeing the graphs when ever you end up getting to them. Glad your enjoying your switch!


----------



## papasin

deeppinkdiver said:


> From James2266- A couple weeks ago, I received a little package from Indonesia. Ok, first the shots comparing the AR3/a to my old Fountek fr89ex
> 
> 
> Very nice little write up James. Looking forward to seeing the graphs when ever you end up getting to them. Glad your enjoying your switch!



Agree and thanks for the write-up James. One comment on the peak is that sounds like it maybe due to the vehicle more so than the driver.

I will also be using the AR3-As in my next little (side) project car and will post up pics when I get a chance.


----------



## Rishi S

Thank you james2266 for the review. I am glad you like them.

@itsmeferry you can contact revealing sound in Indonesia for details.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Just swapped my Arians for the H6MB drivers and very pleased with the results. Smooth punchy midbass and great blending with my subwoofer. I even turned my sub off to compare output and the H6MB easily go 5+ higher per my Eclipse volume control without straining. In fact, with 90w each and 80hz/18db cutoff, I could not get them to strain at all even at levels much higher than normal. Having owned some extremely high dollar gear, I can say with absolute confidence that these are the best midbass I have used in a door install, especially at this price. I may never part with these, well done Rishi!!!


----------



## papasin

Thanks Architect7 for the feedback. Might have to look into some new midbasses for a project car I am working on. 

In the meantime, Rishi sent me a new paper midrange and it recently showed up on my doorstep (and yet to be named).










We will be conducting a midrange shootout with my small collection of AP midranges pictured below, similar to the comparisons last time, but this time as dedicated mids. Enter the contestants: 










From left to right: XR3M-LE, Nz3-A, AR3-A, and TBD paper midrange

Stay tuned!


----------



## james2266

papasin said:


> Thanks Architect7 for the feedback. Might have to look into some new midbasses for a project car I am working on.
> 
> In the meantime, Rishi sent me a new paper midrange and it recently showed up on my doorstep (and yet to be named).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We will be conducting a midrange shootout with my small collection of AP midranges pictured below, similar to the comparisons last time, but this time as dedicated mids. Enter the contestants:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From left to right: XR3M-LE, Nz3-A, AR3-A, and TBD paper midrange
> 
> Stay tuned!


Most definitely staying tuned for that Richard. As the AR3/a is the only one I've heard from the lineup, I will vote for that one. It sure sounds beautiful in my setup especially with the latest addition of the Illusion C8. Those things are freakin' amazing and they blend transparently with both the Ultimo and the AP drivers. I truly wish you guys were close enough to take a listen. I would love your feedback once again. Oh well. If you two ever get up this way let me know as I definitely have a place for you to stay and that includes the little ones too.


----------



## bertholomey

papasin said:


> We will be conducting a midrange shootout with my small collection of AP midranges pictured below, similar to the comparisons last time, but this time as dedicated mids. Enter the contestants:
> 
> From left to right: XR3M-LE, Nz3-A, AR3-A, and TBD paper midrange
> 
> Stay tuned!


I'm really looking forward to your feedback on these excellent drivers. I have a feeling that each will have a characteristic that will stand out positively - so folks could choose based on what is most important to them. 



james2266 said:


> Most definitely staying tuned for that Richard. As the AR3/a is the only one I've heard from the lineup, I will vote for that one. It sure sounds beautiful in my setup especially with the latest addition of the Illusion C8. Those things are freakin' amazing and they blend transparently with both the Ultimo and the AP drivers. I truly wish you guys were close enough to take a listen. I would love your feedback once again. Oh well. If you two ever get up this way let me know as I definitely have a place for you to stay and that includes the little ones too.


I'm glad you are enjoying them! You seemed a bit apprehensive at first - it is good to hear that it was the right decision.


----------



## DBlevel

Now following 

I've been thinking about the NZ's but..............


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> Thanks Architect7 for the feedback. Might have to look into some new midbasses for a project car I am working on.
> 
> In the meantime, Rishi sent me a new paper midrange and it recently showed up on my doorstep (and yet to be named).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We will be conducting a midrange shootout with my small collection of AP midranges pictured below, similar to the comparisons last time, but this time as dedicated mids. Enter the contestants:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From left to right: XR3M-LE, Nz3-A, AR3-A, and TBD paper midrange
> 
> Stay tuned!


That's a great initiative. Looks like xr3m should trump all but lets wait and watch 

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## bertholomey

DBlevel said:


> Now following
> 
> I've been thinking about the NZ's but..............


........but I already have XRs........


----------



## DBlevel

bertholomey said:


> ........but I already have XRs........


Who you?? Or me?? 

I really want to try the NZ's........


----------



## 2010hummerguy

This thread is bad, I am trying to avoid building a-pillars lol...


----------



## piyush7243

Architect7 said:


> This thread is bad, I am trying to avoid building a-pillars lol...


Me too 3rd pillar in progress  

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## deeppinkdiver

I dont see the RAM in the line up, are those not contenders? New no name driver looks pretty tough!


----------



## papasin

Architect7 said:


> This thread is bad, I am trying to avoid building a-pillars lol...






piyush7243 said:


> Me too 3rd pillar in progress
> 
> Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk



You mean like this? 












deeppinkdiver said:


> I dont see the RAM in the line up, are those not contenders? New no name driver looks pretty tough!



We will see, but I am thinking these four for starters as will want to limit the number of drivers as it would otherwise take forever to test all of them lol. Right now, I do not have a set on hand, and depending on time, I may add them time permitting. But at the moment, my thought is to at least test one for each year/generation of ones I have had most experience with.

From the last set of tests, I believe we touched upon the midrange potential of a couple of these drivers discussed...so mainly adding the two for some level of comparison.

Anyway, I got a really quick listen of he latest paper midrange in the above set of pillars. I will wait to give a final verdict after I also take some measurements and some comparisons. But for now, all I can say is wow! I think Rishi might have another winner.


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> You mean like this?


I hate you. Mine look empty 










Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## papasin

piyush7243 said:


> I hate you. Mine look empty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk



Lol. I am very fortunate to have had help in all my pillar builds...the one above was started by a good friend and finished/wrapped by jtaudioacc. Great work on yours!


----------



## papasin

james2266 said:


> Most definitely staying tuned for that Richard. As the AR3/a is the only one I've heard from the lineup, I will vote for that one. It sure sounds beautiful in my setup especially with the latest addition of the Illusion C8. Those things are freakin' amazing and they blend transparently with both the Ultimo and the AP drivers. I truly wish you guys were close enough to take a listen. I would love your feedback once again. Oh well. If you two ever get up this way let me know as I definitely have a place for you to stay and that includes the little ones too.


Thanks James for the offer. If we ever make up your way, we appreciate it and will look into getting in touch with you. Very glad to hear that you are liking the AR3-As and good to know we steered you in the right direction. 

Also, would love to hear them paired with those Scans, C8s, and the Ultimo. That sounds like a pretty great collection of drivers too!


----------



## wdemetrius1

Great idea Richard, I'm looking forward to the results.


----------



## papasin

Ok everyone. First, the usual disclaimer like last time. What I'll be posting data on is how these 4 pairs of speakers respond in MY VEHICLE in THIS PARTICULAR INSTALL. YMMV.

They were all similarly installed in the A-pillars of our minivan, off-axis, with a very small angle into the cabin (maybe 5 to 10 degrees, so not directly cross-firing). Here are a couple pics:



















Ok, onto the data.

First up, the AR3-A:










Next, the Nz3-A:










Third, the XR3M-LE:










Finally, the new mid on the block:










All four overlaid left side only:










All four overlaid right side only:










All four stereo:










I spent about 15 minutes listening to each pair, and there was no science in the listening and please don't jump on my case because the testing was certainly not purely scientific or blind. I knew exactly which driver was going into the pillars so I don't pretend it was purely objective, so take my impressions FWIW and these are entirely MY subjective impressions.

If you were to ask me which one I thought was the "best"...that's a very hard thing to answer. You can look at the data above for our minivan and you can draw your own conclusions based on the data, but keep in mind this was for our install. With all that out of the way, here's what I think of the four.

If I were to pick one pair, and only one pair and price were no object (more on that in a bit), the XR3M-LEs are my favorites, but it's close. Based on the data, it's not the most sensitive. It doesn't have the best top-end extension. But as a midrange, it did everything very well. It was smooth, it was deep, it was just flat out solid. I guess there's a reason why I kept this pair, my very first pair of AP 3s. Maybe it's sentimental. Who knows. 

As a close second, my next pick would be the AR3-As. Obviously based on the plots, you see the sensitivity is the best amongst these drivers and without looking at the plots, my ears immediately told me that. But what gave the edge for me to the XR3s was the lower midrange. While the AR3-As are very good, the XR3s were still a tad better to my ears, even with the improved sensitivity of the AR3-As. Looking at the right side driver's plot (which is a little more on-axis and doesn't have a speedo hump that gets in the way), while this driver was pretty good around 400, only XR3M-LE doesn't come crashing down unlike all the other drivers. I certainly don't advocate running 3s below 250, but call me a sucker for lower midrange weight.

Next, I would call the other two sets a tie...and only because this is a midrange challenge. The Nz3 and the "new mid" have both very good midrange. In fact, if I didn't have the other two mids such as the XR3M-LE and AR3-A , I would be certainly running one of these two sets and no question would be happy with them. As some of you know, I ran the Nz3s in my Civic most of all competition season last year and did quite well with them, so it is no slouch. But the Nz3's biggest strength is in the upper midrange and highs when put on-axis paired with the ATs.

So what makes the new mid special if it's not better than the XR3M-LE or the AR3-A in the midrange department, or good in the highs like the Nz3s? Well, they are very good midranges. In all honestly, to my ears, it was very close to the others in terms of midrange purity. Keep in mind I did not spend any time to try to EQ any of the drivers, so with tuning, I think these new mids are going to be gems. The punchline is that I just learned from Rishi that these drivers are going to retail for $119 a pair! For that price, I'm not sure I could recommend a better set for the $ in the 3" midrange department. Well done Rishi!!


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> Ok everyone. First, the usual disclaimer like last time. What I'll be posting data on is how these 4 pairs of speakers respond in MY VEHICLE in THIS PARTICULAR INSTALL. YMMV.
> 
> They were all similarly installed in the A-pillars of our minivan, off-axis, with a very small angle into the cabin (maybe 5 to 10 degrees, so not directly cross-firing). Here are a couple pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, onto the data.
> 
> First up, the AR3-A:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next, the Nz3-A:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Third, the XR3M-LE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, the new mid on the block:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All four overlaid left side only:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All four overlaid right side only:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All four stereo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I spent about 15 minutes listening to each pair, and there was no science in the listening and please don't jump on my case because the testing was certainly not purely scientific or blind. I knew exactly which driver was going into the pillars so I don't pretend it was purely objective, so take my impressions FWIW and these are entirely MY subjective impressions.
> 
> If you were to ask me which one I thought was the "best"...that's a very hard thing to answer. You can look at the data above for our minivan and you can draw your own conclusions based on the data, but keep in mind this was for our install. With all that out of the way, here's what I think of the four.
> 
> If I were to pick one pair, and only one pair and price were no object (more on that in a bit), the XR3M-LEs are my favorites, but it's close. Based on the data, it's not the most sensitive. It doesn't have the best top-end extension. But as a midrange, it did everything very well. It was smooth, it was deep, it was just flat out solid. I guess there's a reason why I kept this pair, my very first pair of AP 3s. Maybe it's sentimental. Who knows.
> 
> As a close second, my next pick would be the AR3-As. Obviously based on the plots, you see the sensitivity is the best amongst these drivers and without looking at the plots, my ears immediately told me that. But what gave the edge for me to the XR3s was the lower midrange. While the AR3-As are very good, the XR3s were still a tad better to my ears, even with the improved sensitivity of the AR3-As. Looking at the right side driver's plot (which is a little more on-axis and doesn't have a speedo hump that gets in the way), while this driver was pretty good around 400, only XR3M-LE doesn't come crashing down unlike all the other drivers. I certainly don't advocate running 3s below 250, but call me a sucker for lower midrange weight.
> 
> Next, I would call the other two sets a tie...and only because this is a midrange challenge. The Nz3 and the "new mid" have both very good midrange. In fact, if I didn't have the other two mids such as the XR3M-LE and AR3-A , I would be certainly running one of these two sets and no question would be happy with them. As some of you know, I ran the Nz3s in my Civic most of all competition season last year and did quite well with them, so it is no slouch. But the Nz3's biggest strength is in the upper midrange and highs when put on-axis paired with the ATs.
> 
> So what makes the new mid special if it's not better than the XR3M-LE or the AR3-A in the midrange department, or good in the highs like the Nz3s? Well, they are very good midranges. In all honestly, to my ears, it was very close to the others in terms of midrange purity. Keep in mind I did not spend any time to try to EQ any of the drivers, so with tuning, I think these new mids are going to be gems. The punchline is that I just learned from Rishi that these drivers are going to retail for $119 a pair! For that price, I'm not sure I could recommend a better set for the $ in the 3" midrange department. Well done Rishi!!


Great writeup and explanation and as predicted xr3m-le rocks in the midrange department. But now people would get more confused. The new range does have a great price point to succeed. All the best but was also looking for on axis results that's where i think ar3a will pull ahead 

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## bertholomey

Great review! I really like those graphs - that is a really nice functionality of that software. Pretty cool to see the consistency of the responses - and then an aspect each driver edges forward of the others. Thanks for taking the time to complete this testing.


----------



## DBlevel

Awesome review!

Thanks for taking the time to compare them!


----------



## 1fishman

DBlevel said:


> Awesome review!
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to compare them!


What he said +1. 

When will the "TBD" be available?


----------



## Rishi S

Nice Review Richard

Preview Reverb Acoustic's F2Be



Video
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152172286428282


----------



## james2266

Rishi S said:


> Nice Review Richard
> 
> Preview Reverb Acoustic's F2Be
> 
> 
> 
> Video
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152172286428282


Hmmm... I spy Berilium That could be an interesting driver indeed.


----------



## Weightless

Any word on the 2"?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

My H6MBs have really come alive with my higher current Clarion amp. The midbass is now that often sought after chest punch. Loving them!


----------



## Golden Ear

Great review Richard. Thanks for taking the time to share your impressions with us.


----------



## mikechec9

Yes thanks indeed. Im certain someone will volunteer a set of ram3's soon for closure's sake.


----------



## DLO13

Architect7 said:


> My H6MBs have really come alive with my higher current Clarion amp. The midbass is now that often sought after chest punch. Loving them!


How much power are you giving them?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

DLO13 said:


> How much power are you giving them?


Only 75w but this Clarion amp must be way underrated or have much more headroom or both.


----------



## casey

Rishi S said:


> Nice Review Richard
> 
> Preview Reverb Acoustic's F2Be
> 
> 
> 
> Video
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152172286428282


very cool! i assume this is the 2" that has been under wraps for a while?


----------



## itsmeferry

OMG !!!!! That reverb look make me horny wkwkwkwkwkwkw 
How much is cost? N what midbas is Mr Roland used?


----------



## Rishi S

casey said:


> very cool! i assume this is the 2" that has been under wraps for a while?


You are right Casey 



itsmeferry said:


> OMG !!!!! That reverb look make me horny wkwkwkwkwkwkw
> How much is cost? N what midbas is Mr Roland used?


Hi Ferry, mid bass is the Reverb 5. As for the cost you may check with your local distributor


----------



## Rishi S

Architect7 said:


> My H6MBs have really come alive with my higher current Clarion amp. The midbass is now that often sought after chest punch. Loving them!


Glad you are liking them


----------



## papasin

Hmmm, what do we have here?  










Might take a little bit since this summer is crazy, but when I have a moment I will be testing this as well as the RAM3 to complete the 3" collection.  Stay tuned over the next few weeks.


----------



## james2266

papasin said:


> Hmmm, what do we have here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might take a little bit since this summer is crazy, but when I have a moment I will be testing this as well as the RAM3 to complete the 3" collection.  Stay tuned over the next few weeks.


Which one is that Richard? Personally, the Ar3/a are still doing a mighty fine job for me. Just curious.


----------



## papasin

james2266 said:


> Which one is that Richard? Personally, the Ar3/a are still doing a mighty fine job for me. Just curious.


Rishi tells me it's a variant of this one:



















Apologize for the difference in picture quality (1st one was with my phone) but you should see the similarity...basically, note the different dust cap.


----------



## Offroader5

Rishi, any idea on pricing/availability on the 2". Who local to me are you working with that I can get product from? Arizona/California area.


----------



## Rishi S

Offroader5 said:


> Rishi, any idea on pricing/availability on the 2". Who local to me are you working with that I can get product from? Arizona/California area.


We are still making arrangements for distribution of Reverb Acoustics in USA


----------



## DonH

I like where this is going


----------



## papasin

So you guys can see what I've been (and will be) comparing/testing, here are some close up pics of the 3" midranges/widebanders in similar lighting conditions...

New paper mid with alloy dust cap (Designation: MR3-P):



















Nz3-A:



















AR3-A:



















RAM3-A:



















I won't be testing this, but for size reference, here is a pic of the AT (Ambiance Transducer) that I believe most know about:


----------



## papasin

And a couple others that I recently received (for possible testing)...

H6MB:










For the midbass, there are some of you that are quite a bit more familiar than me and have had it for a few weeks/months now and have posted your impressions. I'm looking forward to giving these a shot. I suppose I could run this up and compare to my XR6Ms as well as the Arians. That would be an interesting mid bass challenge in its own right...got to finish the 3" one first.   

and AR20 (20mm tweeter):


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Very interested in your impressions of the H6MB. IMHO, best performance from a 6.5" even compared to stuff costing 2-3x as much.

I'd like to know more about that AR20 tweeter!


----------



## blackhorn

Looking forward to your review on the h6mb, specifically because architect7 said that he can't make out the difference between the h6 and the esotars till 2khz and that really is high praise for any mid bass, considering the quality of his gear, I would take his word for it, however it would be nice to hear more on the same from you ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2010hummerguy

blackhorn said:


> Looking forward to your review on the h6mb, specifically because architect7 said that he can't make out the difference between the h6 and the esotars till 2khz and that really is high praise for any mid bass, considering the quality of his gear, I would take his word for it, however it would be nice to hear more on the same from you ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, just to clarify, the Esotar has the H6 beat under 80-100hz but the H6 midbass output is no joke. If I hadn't gotten such a great deal on Esotars, it would not have been worth the additional cost to upgrade.


----------



## papasin

I'll do my best guys. Just so many things on my plate right now, many non audio related. So it maybe a few weeks until I get to some of this. When I am able, I want to finish up the 3" comparo and add the RAM3-A and the MR3-P to the mix.

Then I'll probably give some impressions of the AR20 tweeter. I will likely pair it with the AR3-A, what Rishi told me will be known as the AR 3.20-A combo. 

And finally, I will get to the midbasses. I don't have Esotars though to compare them to...just all AP...past and present.


----------



## Rishi S

Architect7 said:


> Yep, just to clarify, the Esotar has the H6 beat under 80-100hz but the H6 midbass output is no joke. If I hadn't gotten such a great deal on Esotars, it would have not been worth the additional cost to upgrade.


Thank you for your honest opinion.I really appreciate


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Rishi S said:


> Thank you for your honest opinion.I really appreciate


You are very welcome Rishi! Btw I have a pair of Arians setup with my RAAL ribbons, best mids I have heard with the RAALs. And I've tried the RAALs with some pretty nice stuff! I'm keeping a pair of these Arians for myself forever


----------



## Rishi S

Architect7 said:


> You are very welcome Rishi! Btw I have a pair of Arians setup with my RAAL ribbons, best mids I have heard with the RAALs. And I've tried the RAALs with some pretty nice stuff! I'm keeping a pair of these Arians for myself forever


Aleksandar of Raal does make excellent tweeters. And once again thank you Architect7 I am truly honored.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Yeah he does! Very nice guy too, answers customer emails personally, very cool there are still owners around like you and him. I have a pair of 70-10D ribbons on the way that I will be putting in an enclosure with the Arians for a high end 2 channel build at home.


----------



## blackhorn

Architect7 said:


> Yep, just to clarify, the Esotar has the H6 beat under 80-100hz but the H6 midbass output is no joke. If I hadn't gotten such a great deal on Esotars, it would not have been worth the additional cost to upgrade.



I was typing my post when u slipped ahead of me in posting ?, spending any amount on ice can be considered obscene or reasonable, all it takes is the correct perspective, at some point in time, I considered wouldn't have even considered spending what I spent purchasing my rams, but now, I think it was a worthy investment



papasin said:


> I'll do my best guys. Just so many things on my plate right now, many non audio related. So it maybe a few weeks until I get to some of this. When I am able, I want to finish up the 3" comparo and add the RAM3-A and the MR3-P to the mix.
> 
> Then I'll probably give some impressions of the AR20 tweeter. I will likely pair it with the AR3-A, what Rishi told me will be known as the AR 3.20-A combo.
> 
> And finally, I will get to the midbasses. I don't have Esotars though to compare them to...just all AP...past and present.



That's what I am looking forward to, not a comparo but an neutral virgin review ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DLO13

I will also be posting my feedback once I finish up my 3 way install.
Not that I am a well qualified person to provide a bunch of feedback, but i'll let you know if i'm happy


----------



## Rishi S

DLO13 said:


> I will also be posting my feedback once I finish up my 3 way install.
> Not that I am a well qualified person to provide a bunch of feedback, but i'll let you know if i'm happy



That will work


----------



## piyush7243

Great initiative Richard, would love to see the results.Having listened to almost all the speakers mentioned here, Liked Ar3a, RAM3A and H6MB a lot. Seems the new one with paper cone is the dark horse


----------



## Offroader5

Architect7 said:


> Yeah he does! Very nice guy too, answers customer emails personally, very cool there are still owners around like you and him. I have a pair of 70-10D ribbons on the way that I will be putting in an enclosure with the Arians for a high end 2 channel build at home.


I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with on enclosures to house the Arians. I'm also using a pair in my HT and have them in some simple bass reflex enclosures. Only feeding them about 100 watts each and essentially running them full range with a cut around 80hz from a Denon receiver. It's impressive how wide they'll play but would like to pair them with a tweeter or ribbon to fill out the top end better.


----------



## papasin

Been running this combo for a little over a week now. Very smooth!


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> Been running this combo for a little over a week now. Very smooth!


I have listened to tweeters with RAM and they are very smooth and great sounding in the higher octaves


----------



## DLO13

papasin said:


> Been running this combo for a little over a week now. Very smooth!


Acoustic guitar sounded like it was in there with us


----------



## Offroader5

How low can I safely cut off the AR20 tweets?

Richard, how much usable airspace are you getting in your pillars? How much power are you feeding the pillar locations? I'm guessing you have the AR3's cut around 250-275?


----------



## papasin

Offroader5 said:


> How low can I safely cut off the AR20 tweets?
> 
> Richard, how much usable airspace are you getting in your pillars? How much power are you feeding the pillar locations? I'm guessing you have the AR3's cut around 250-275?


In the pillars that I posted above, I'm running those AR20 down to 3k with a 24dB slope. YMMV and it would really depend on your aiming and vehicle environment IMHO. Maybe Rishi can chime in, but I think most folks usually cross them a bit higher, like 4.5k or even 6k as pretty much all of the AP 3" offerings play pretty high. But in my case, after a few measurements, I felt that the 3k crossover was optimal. 

The pillars above are IB and they vent down into the dash. I have a couple different presets for the high pass on the AR3. For daily driving/listening, I cross them around 400/12dB, and let the mid bass pick up from there to give more impact. When I'm really keying on imaging and stage height, etc., I cross them at 250/24dB and that works well. When I tested these in my Civic, having a sealed enclosure of about 0.7-1L yielded excellent results and I was able to cross them at 250/24dB and they got loud with very little movement on the cone.

As for power, I'm using a pair of PDX gen 2 amps in that build.



















Fits perfectly under the driver's seat. PDX V9 and F6. Up to 150x2 on the AR20, 150x2 on the AR3-A, 200x2 on the mid bass, and 500x1 on the sub.


----------



## Kriszilla

I have a post in the classifieds, but I thought I'd check in here at the source... I just scored a great deal on a pair of NZ3's that I'm going to pair with some Anarchy's.

However, they don't come with the AT's and I was wondering if anyone here had a pair they aren't using that they'd like to sell? PM me if so.

Thanks!


----------



## buguy

Im curious, everyone here is talking about the AR3A, but on the website it is designated as an AR3P? Whats up with that?


----------



## DLO13

I believe it is a newer driver.


----------



## buguy

Its too bad their website isnt a bit better. Very little information there.
And that means I cant look at specs on the AR3A (which is what it looks like is being delivered) because only the AR3P is listed there.


----------



## DLO13

buguy said:


> Its too bad their website isnt a bit better. Very little information there.
> And that means I cant look at specs on the AR3A (which is what it looks like is being delivered) because only the AR3P is listed there.


I will trade a crappy website for the designer/owner to directly give me info on this thread 

Post up your questions - you will get answered.


----------



## buguy

Agreed. And im not bashing by the way. Richard has been awesome answering my questions very quickly. And im getting information that I may never get on most other drivers on here. Just saying it would be nice to have some info to look at when im up eyeballing stuff at 3am.


----------



## Rishi S

Very sorry guys. Please find attached specs of Ar3a. And about the website I will work on it lol


----------



## iroller

Whats the best tweeter for a match with the ardians?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I bet the AR20 would match well. I've also used CSS LD25X XBL tweeters with great success as well as RAAL. SEAS DXT are also a good fit. I'd like to try them with a Dayton AMT someday. The Arian demands a tweeter with fantastic detail which isn't too common, unfortunately. A tweeter too dark will leave you wanting to play the Arian full range


----------



## papasin

iroller said:


> Whats the best tweeter for a match with the ardians?


It's been awhile since I ran the Arians in my wife's car, but when I did, I paired it with HAT Ring Radiators in the pillars



















with the Arians in the doors










A couple members heard that combo last year and it worked very well.


----------



## papasin

Architect7 said:


> I bet the AR20 would match well. I've also used CSS LD25X XBL tweeters with great success as well as RAAL. SEAS DXT are also a good fit. I'd like to try them with a Dayton AMT someday. The Arian demands a tweeter with fantastic detail which isn't too common, unfortunately. A tweeter too dark will leave you wanting to play the Arian full range


Excellent suggestions here as well!


----------



## piyush7243

Arian's work very well with HAT RR,I have also used them with Hiquphon ow1 n 2. Ow2 sounds great crossed at 5k.

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## buguy

Rishi S said:


> Very sorry guys. Please find attached specs of Ar3a. And about the website I will work on it lol


Do you by chance Also have one for the AR20?


----------



## Rishi S

buguy said:


> Do you by chance Also have one for the AR20?


I attached ar20 together with ar3a.Please view the jpeg file


----------



## buguy

Where would I find specs on the H6MB? I am probably going to get the H6MB, AR3, and AR20 component combo, but initially I may just want to run the H6 and AR20. Need to see if the H6 can run up high enough to not have a dead spot in the 3-4.5k range before the AR20 will take over.

Having a tough time deciding on that combo or get the H6, and RAM3 with the little AT's so I can run them in a "3 way" off of my Pioneer 80PRS without having to get a processor.

Also how do the little AT's do for adding highs? I like nice crisp hi hats and such. Will they produce that? Cant find much info/reviews on those.


----------



## Golden Ear

I have the NZ3s and the 80prs in my truck. Iirc the lowest that the 80prs allows you to cross your "tweets" is 1.25khz. It'll work but the nice thing about having a 3" instead of a tweeter is the ability to run lower frequencies up higher in your vehicle. My Nz3s are on my dash, for instance, and they're running from 250hz-20khz. The aat is not a tweeter and will not play anywhere nearly as low as a tweeter.


----------



## buguy

I never even considered running the 3" without a tweeter. How does that sound. I was looking at it 3 ways. Buying the 3 way component set (h6,AR 3, and AR 20) and just using the H6 and AR 20 for now (which is Why I wanted to see How high I could cross the H6). The component set is almost the same price as buying the H6 and tweet separate. 
Or
Get the H6, ram3, and the AT and run them all with the (amplified) 80prs since the AT is run in series with the RAM3. 
Or
Run the H6, AR3, and AR 20 and buy a processor. Of course this is the best option, But I'm trying to avoid having to get a processor. 

Just trying to figure out my best option. But now it Seems I may have another option of running the H6 and the RAM 3 with No tweeter. Just not sure that would give me the crisp highs I like. But I've never heard one like That so I have No clue. Maybe it's Great. But it still Seems like I couldn't lose by getting the H6, RAM3, and the little AT. Again, very little info on the ram3 and the AT.


----------



## Rusty

Golden Ear said:


> I have the NZ3s and the 80prs in my truck. Iirc the lowest that the 80prs allows you to cross your "tweets" is 1.25khz. It'll work but the nice thing about having a 3" instead of a tweeter is the ability to run lower frequencies up higher in your vehicle. My Nz3s are on my dash, for instance, and they're running from 250hz-20khz. The aat is not a tweeter and will not play anywhere nearly as low as a tweeter.


what mode are you using on your 80prs to run those 3's at 250hz?


----------



## Golden Ear

Rusty said:


> what mode are you using on your 80prs to run those 3's at 250hz?


I'm not running them active off of the 80prs and that was my point in my last post. Because the 80prs was designed for a 2-way comp set I had to get an external dsp to run my setup. I'm using the RF 360.3. 

The top end is very detailed without a tweeter. I get my best scores in meca on my top end. The only people that think I need a tweeter are those that judge with their eyes and not ears.


----------



## buguy

Thats interesting man, thanks for the information. Definately have to keep this option open.


----------



## Beckerson1

Purchased some Ram-3a today. Can't wait to get the a pillars done and get these going. Taking a chance tweeterless.


----------



## piyush7243

Beckerson1 said:


> Purchased some Ram-3a today. Can't wait to get the a pillars done and get these going. Taking a chance tweeterless.


I am running them Tweeter less in my A-Pillars and never miss anything..


----------



## Rusty

piyush7243 said:


> I am running them Tweeter less in my A-Pillars and never miss anything..


Very nice


----------



## buguy

Beckerson1 said:


> Purchased some Ram-3a today. Can't wait to get the a pillars done and get these going. Taking a chance tweeterless.


Not going to run the little AT's with them?


----------



## papasin

Wow, some confusion it seems...so let me see if I can help having used or played around with most of the various drivers. 

Nz3 and RAM3 both come with AT as confirmed by piyush in previous post. Most folks that I know and have seen when they run the Nz3 or RAM3 run them WITH the AT. This is still considered a "tweeterless" config since the AT is NOT a tweeter. Also, the AT is wired in parallel with the Nz3 or RAM3, hence not needing separate amp or processor channels. So when running the Nz3/ATs or RAM3/ATs with the H6MB, you are effectively running a two-way setup and only needing the same number of processor and amp channels as two-way configs...but often with the advantage afforded by most 3-way setups. However, in said "two-way" setup, your processor/HU needs to be able to go down into the ~300Hz range for its crossover to be able to make best use of the Nz3 or RAM3 (i.e. the 80PRS does not cross that low).

Now, going back to the 3-way (H6MB + AR3-A + AR20), and whether it's viable to run the AR20 and the H6MB by themselves as a 2-way...it is possible as anything can be, but that's not the recommended config and I personally would suggest to use the AR3-A with them if you can. Reason being, the AR20 is a 20mm tweeter and I would not run the AR20 below 4k to be safe (3k the very minimum with distinct caveats). The H6MB is a mid bass driver, and IIRC Architect7 mentioned he was able to run it up to 2k. I personally have run the AR20 down to 3k, but below that, in my particular install, it starts falling off rapidly. Unless you are able to measure the response of the drivers in your particular install and know what you are looking for and are doing, the H6MB+AR3-A+AR20 intended combo was I believe by intent and design.

Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## Beckerson1

buguy said:


> Not going to run the little AT's with them?


Yes I am. They will be located as close to the driver as I can get them. Depending on looks im looking at above the driver. The drivers will be aimed towards center rear of the car. So i think we figured at most 30 degrees off axis but may be less. Its similar to a build he did for a sedan and he said in this config it sounded amazing. I'm hoping to talk to Mark today and see how things are going and update him with my purchase of the drivers. 

I'm going to be pairing these with the Exodus Anarchy (4 OHM) crossed 50hz to between 500 to 1k. Won't know that till I can do a FR graph in my car on the APs. I know the Anarchys are in the zone for that range based on my measurments in my own car. The lower I can cross the APS the better as in my car I get a drop of a couple db from 300hz to 1k. It's consistent between multiple drivers so it's car/install based. It's fairly consistent to both sides so could be the doors or just the way the dash, center console, and reflections factor in. Not to worked about it.


----------



## buguy

Thanks Richard that does help. I thought the HU would cross at any place you wanted. I didnt know it was limited. Looks like I have more research to do there. 

And I wasnt really suggesting to run the AR20 lower than 4k, which was why I was asking for specs on the H6. I didnt know if it would run up to 4k or not. I think Architect7 said he ran his as high as 3k, which would still basically leave me a 1k "dead spot" between it and the tweeter in H6 and AR20 combo, but again I didnt know if it would run higher. 

So I guess in this situation, for me, if I am planning to run without a processor, none of these are the best choice for me. At least not if I run active.

I think I will still get the H6's and just will need to find a tweeter that will run down to 1.5-2k (or however low the HU will let me cross). Or bite the bullet and get a DSP.


----------



## buguy

Beckerson1 said:


> Yes I am. They will be located as close to the driver as I can get them. Depending on looks im looking at above the driver. The drivers will be aimed towards center rear of the car. So i think we figured at most 30 degrees off axis but may be less. Its similar to a build he did for a sedan and he said in this config it sounded amazing. I'm hoping to talk to Mark today and see how things are going and update him with my purchase of the drivers.
> 
> I'm going to be pairing these with the Exodus Anarchy (4 OHM) crossed 50hz to between 500 to 1k. Won't know that till I can do a FR graph in my car on the APs. I know the Anarchys are in the zone for that range based on my measurments in my own car. The lower I can cross the APS the better as in my car I get a drop of a couple db from 300hz to 1k. It's consistent between multiple drivers so it's car/install based. It's fairly consistent to both sides so could be the doors or just the way the dash, center console, and reflections factor in. Not to worked about it.


Nice! I was planning to use Anarchy's as well until I started hearing more about the AP H6's.


----------



## Beckerson1

buguy said:


> Nice! I was planning to use Anarchy's as well until I started hearing more about the AP H6's.


Ya. I've used the Anarchys and when I measured them it was really impresive. Right now as a temp setup I'm using other drivers as I just didn't have the power available for the Anarchys so I went with something a little more efficient. All of which used in a 2 way config. Anarchys did quite well, not amazing, up to 3k in my setup before things got out of hand. 

Anyway do miss the low end authority the Anarchys had. Can't wait to get them back in.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Great explanation Richard! We all picked up some good info from that.

Thanks.


----------



## Offroader5

I picked up a AR3a/AR20 combo recently. The AR3's replace my NZ3's in the same pods I have attached to the kicks. I made the pods a bit larger though to get them around 1 liter. I'm going to try the tweeters using the angled mount and attach them to what little sail panel I have. I have yet to install them though since I need to add wire runs from the doors to the rear.

After installing the AR3's and testing/resetting the crossover point as needed, I realized they're able to be crossed lower than the NZ's did with the same power. I was able to get them playing clean down to around 200hz on normal listening. I did however notice they still moved a bit more than I liked when I would listen to a well recorded dynamic track at higher volumes, so I brought them back up to 225hz and they seem to do well there.

I don't have a calibrated ear or fancy testing equipment, but from just the listening I've done in comparison, I do like the sound from the AR's more than the NZ's.

I've delegated the NZ's to the living room HT where they have been reunited with the Arians as my front channels.

I'll check in again once I get the tweeters installed and everything readjusted.


----------



## Golden Ear

Offroader5 said:


> I've delegated the NZ's to the living room HT where they have been reunited with the Arians as my front channels.


I was just thinking about doing this last night! I too have a pair of Arians and NZs that I was considering making bookshelf speakers with. Can you please elaborate on how you went about wiring these up and crossing them over? I think it's an appropriate convo for this thread as it still has to do with the drivers this thread is about.


----------



## Offroader5

Golden Ear said:


> I was just thinking about doing this last night! I too have a pair of Arians and NZs that I was considering making bookshelf speakers with. Can you please elaborate on how you went about wiring these up and crossing them over? I think it's an appropriate convo for this thread as it still has to do with the drivers this thread is about.


At this point I have only a high pass cut at 100hz through my Denon receiver. They are wired in series to net 8ohm. I would like to get much deeper into the HT and have fully active adjustments as in the car, but I have yet to focus on what I would need in the HT environment to achieve it. I'm sure it's not tough, just haven't done much research.

I didn't know if the NZ's would be safe just wired up to the 100hz cut, but they seem to be doing fine and sound very nice. I have them in tubes just over 1 liter on top of the Arian enclosures. I have them on axis using no tweeters. I was thinking of picking up a pair of Vifa, Morel, or even another set of AR20 tweets and see what happens. I'll probably wait though till I at least get some sort of 3 way passive network I can use to better manage frequencies.

The Arians can run in stereo without sub and have plenty of low end. I don't get the thunderous lows with them, but they work well listening to music. When I am watching movies, I switch on the sub to fill in the lows. This is what I have the Arians in:


----------



## LeDelmo

Hello, 

Does anyone know of a reliable place to purchase Audible Physics car speakers? I look them up and all I get is a HT Audio Physics website. I cant find anything else.

I might as-well mention I already purchased some ID xs57/x65 speakers but someone recommended I look these up and the more I look the more I am impressed with them.

I may purchase a set of mids "if they are affordable" to do a side by side comparison. They are very interesting.

Just wish I could get a set of HAT mids and compare all three but they cost way too much now.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## piyush7243

LeDelmo said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone know of a reliable place to purchase Audible Physics car speakers? I look them up and all I get is a HT Audio Physics website. I cant find anything else.
> 
> I might as-well mention I already purchased some ID xs57/x65 speakers but someone recommended I look these up and the more I look the more I am impressed with them.
> 
> I may purchase a set of mids "if they are affordable" to do a side by side comparison. They are very interesting.
> 
> Just wish I could get a set of HAT mids and compare all three but they cost way too much now.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Contact Rishi S/AP.he will be able to get it for you

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## bertholomey

I have posted these in the past, but it seems relevant here ?

I love these drivers as near-field desk speakers, utilizing a powered subwoofer, and Naim amplification. A simple 300hz high pass crossover from Parts Express. I need to get Mark to help me get the AT permanently installed, so forgive the jenky rubber band.


----------



## Golden Ear

Offroader5 said:


> At this point I have only a high pass cut at 100hz through my Denon receiver. They are wired in series to net 8ohm. I would like to get much deeper into the HT and have fully active adjustments as in the car, but I have yet to focus on what I would need in the HT environment to achieve it. I'm sure it's not tough, just haven't done much research.
> 
> I didn't know if the NZ's would be safe just wired up to the 100hz cut, but they seem to be doing fine and sound very nice. I have them in tubes just over 1 liter on top of the Arian enclosures. I have them on axis using no tweeters. I was thinking of picking up a pair of Vifa, Morel, or even another set of AR20 tweets and see what happens. I'll probably wait though till I at least get some sort of 3 way passive network I can use to better manage frequencies.
> 
> The Arians can run in stereo without sub and have plenty of low end. I don't get the thunderous lows with them, but they work well listening to music. When I am watching movies, I switch on the sub to fill in the lows. This is what I have the Arians in:


Very cool. I have a nice ht setup already so I may end up building them for my garage. Did you use something like winISD for figuring out the size of the enclosure for the Arians? 

Jason, I like those little bookshelfs you made, even tho your aat is mounted all jenky:laugh:. Have you tried them without the aat to hear if there's a difference?


----------



## bertholomey

Golden Ear said:


> Jason, I like those little bookshelfs you made, even tho your aat is mounted all jenky:laugh:. Have you tried them without the aat to hear if there's a difference?


Interestingly......I had the AAT''s in a very temporary mounting to the speakers (even more Jenky......painters tape :laugh......then I ran them without the AAT's for a while (because I 'lent' them to a buddy).......then Rishi / Richard got me a new set........big difference.......to my ears anyway.....just fills in that little bit that makes it complete. For me....it isn't as apparent when I just put my finger over them.....or even unhook them for a minute or two.......it was not having them there for a while, then having them there......that is when I had the Wow! experience. For me, in this set up, there isn't anything 'missing'. Except........the aesthetic of having them finished......hopefully some day soon


----------



## Offroader5

Golden Ear said:


> Very cool. I have a nice ht setup already so I may end up building them for my garage. Did you use something like winISD for figuring out the size of the enclosure for the Arians?


No, I sent Pete over at PWK Designs all the specs and he figured it all out.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

That is an awesome Arians enclosure.

I just found a bag of caps and inductors so i am going to attempt my first passive xover. Something shallow, probably 6-12db between a RAAL ribbon and the Arian.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

The Arian is by far the most well behaved midwoofer I've ever used. Sure other speakers in its size range will do certain things better but the Arian did it all very well. It's like the Cavenders seasoning of car audio:laugh:


----------



## gijoe

I'm hoping that my Melodic Acoustic Euphorias will be on par with the Arians. I've never gotten to hear either, but I found a good deal.


----------



## 1fishman

Anyone know the minimum air space the AR3-a ? 
I confused a half liter container with a liter container and it looks like my sealed pods will only have 0.6 liters.




gijoe said:


> I'm hoping that my Melodic Acoustic Euphorias will be on par with the Arians. I've never gotten to hear either, but I found a good deal.


From what i understand the Euphorias have a bit better midbass but don't cross as high


----------



## piyush7243

1fishman said:


> Anyone know the minimum air space the AR3-a ?
> I confused a half liter container with a liter container and it looks like my sealed pods will only have 0.6 liters.
> 
> 
> 
> From what i understand the Euphorias have a bit better midbass but don't cross as high


0.6 will do fine. Just put some pollyfill n it would be good. Where are you planning to cross these?

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## 1fishman

piyush7243 said:


> 0.6 will do fine. Just put some pollyfill n it would be good. Where are you planning to cross these?
> 
> Sent from Oppo Find 7


Thanks, 
Not sure where i'll cross them, I have Dyna mw172's in the doors, guessing 300ish. I'm just Putting them in the sail panels with some tweeters that should cut in around 3,500.


----------



## piyush7243

1fishman said:


> Thanks,
> Not sure where i'll cross them, I have Dyna mw172's in the doors, guessing 300ish. I'm just Putting them in the sail panels with some tweeters that should cut in around 3,500.


Put a little more polyfill then

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## papasin

papasin said:


> Been running this combo for a little over a week now. Very smooth!



I wanted to give an update on this pairing along with the H6MB (3-way set). We decided to give the van a try in the competition lanes in MECA. It competed against six cars in its class, the most competed class of the day. Considering the stiff competition, we were very fortunate and humbled by the result. Suffice it to say, I am very impressed with these speakers!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Congrats sir! The H6 truly are the real deal!


----------



## bertholomey

Wow! Congrats! You said you thought it was good.....validation! And with a Papasin tune!


----------



## piyush7243

Congrats Man. A very well deserved win.

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## papasin

Thanks everyone. We are definitely glad how the van came together. I will be posting in the build log section over the next few days.


----------



## Rishi S

Sometimes saying "Thank you" is just not enough, but I would like to thank everyone who has supported us overs the years. AP wouldn't be what it is today without you guys.


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> Sometimes saying "Thank you" is just not enough, but I would like to thank everyone who has supported us overs the years. AP wouldn't be what it is today without you guys.


Rishi, its a 2 way street. We get great support from you as well.


----------



## 1fishman

papasin said:


> Thanks everyone. We are definitely glad how the van came together. I will be posting in the build log section over the next few days.


 Sweet, it will be nice to finally have a build of a Odyssey.

Congratulations on the WIN!

Also thanks for all the informative post and contributions you make.


----------



## papasin

1fishman said:


> Sweet, it will be nice to finally have a build of a Odyssey.
> 
> Congratulations on the WIN!
> 
> Also thanks for all the informative post and contributions you make.


Thanks, and happy to help. 

As for the build log, just got it started. Gotta take care of a few things but will get it going in more detail throughout the day.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...2000-honda-odyssey-papasin-family-van-sq.html


----------



## tjswarbrick

Congrats Richard! Nicely done.

I knew I should have auditioned your Civic 2 weeks ago...


----------



## wdemetrius1

Congratulations Richard!!!


----------



## Dev1984

Shortly am also upgrading with RAM3 :happy:


----------



## Duckstu

I have a new set of Ram 3's I am not going to be using. We tested one in a lab and got a full set of spec sheets on it. Otherwise they haven't been out of the box. The little super-tweeter things are included.

There's 24 graphs,.. so I'll just post a smattering of them.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Duckstu said:


> I have a new set of Ram 3's I am not going to be using.


Is that a 3 or 3A?
Are they going up in the classifieds?

Also trying to understand your graphs. Was any smoothing applied in your Frequency Response? The presence region looks a lot messier that in appears on AP's 3A FR graph.
Does that show it reaches 3% Total Harmonic Distortion (+ Noise) at 200 Hz right around 360 millivolts? At 3.2 Ohms isn't that something like .04 watts?
I'm confused that a couple of the harmonics appear above the primary signal - I assume there was some offset applied to get everything on 1 page. Can you confirm?
Not saying it's bad - I took the Mechanical path and am a bit rusty on my electrical engineering.

Interesting that the ridge of delayed response just under 3K Hz coincides with a dip in the frequency response. Makes one think AP meant to do that... 

Now I've gotta do a search to see if you've posted similar testing on any other drivers...


----------



## piyush7243

The 3A n 3 are same


----------



## tjswarbrick

Thanks. Good to know.


----------



## Duckstu

tjswarbrick said:


> Is that a 3 or 3A?
> Are they going up in the classifieds?


I'm probably too lazy lol. Also, I don't know what they're worth.





tjswarbrick said:


> Also trying to understand your graphs. Was any smoothing applied in your Frequency Response? The presence region looks a lot messier that in appears on AP's 3A FR graph.


Narrow band, 1/48 th octave,... no smoothing. It's way too easy to cheat with smoothing. 




tjswarbrick said:


> Does that show it reaches 3% Total Harmonic Distortion (+ Noise) at 200 Hz right around 360 millivolts? At 3.2 Ohms isn't that something like .04 watts?
> 
> I'm confused that a couple of the harmonics appear above the primary signal - I assume there was some offset applied to get everything on 1 page. Can you confirm?


No offset.

There's bad kinds of distortion and harmless kinds. Harmonic distortion in bass for instance isn't noticeable,.. and just makes the bass seem fatter. (Better even)

So you have small valve amps that have huge distortion numbers,.. but sound marvelous,.. because the type of distortion they produce isn't the bad kind. But the machine they use to measure doesn't differentiate.


----------



## subwoofery

tjswarbrick said:


> Is that a 3 or 3A?
> Are they going up in the classifieds?
> 
> Also trying to understand your graphs. Was any smoothing applied in your Frequency Response? The presence region looks a lot messier that in appears on AP's 3A FR graph.
> Does that show it reaches 3% Total Harmonic Distortion (+ Noise) at 200 Hz right around 360 millivolts? At 3.2 Ohms isn't that something like .04 watts?
> I'm confused that a couple of the harmonics appear above the primary signal - I assume there was some offset applied to get everything on 1 page. Can you confirm?
> Not saying it's bad - I took the Mechanical path and am a bit rusty on my electrical engineering.
> 
> Interesting that the ridge of delayed response just under 3K Hz coincides with a dip in the frequency response. Makes one think AP meant to do that...
> 
> Now I've gotta do a search to see if you've posted similar testing on any other drivers...


Where you see a dip around 3kHz, I see a peak right after 2kHz. 
That would translate into 3rd order harmonics close or even above the 2nd harmonic one. I've seen a lot of drivers (3" and 4") that exibit that peak right around 2.2kHz-3kHz - sometimes it starts earlier, sometimes higher up in freq. 

It'll probably show as a really small blip or bump in the impedance graph too. 

I can assure you that AP did NOT mean to do that  

Kelvin


----------



## tjswarbrick

Thanks, Kelvin. As I look more closely, I think you're right - they correlate, not ameliorate.
I checked and didn't see the impedance curve either here or on APs site.


----------



## Duckstu

I have those graphs.

Was a mess to post,.. it was in a program I could only view,... so I had to take a picture of the screen with a camera.

But here it is,.. ohms v.s. phase.









Also a graph of compression.


----------



## subwoofery

Duckstu said:


> I have those graphs.
> 
> Was a mess to post,.. it was in a program I could only view,... so I had to take a picture of the screen with a camera.
> 
> But here it is,.. ohms v.s. phase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also a graph of compression.


Eh... Guess I was right... There's a small glitch in the phase and impedance graph right after 2kHz 

Kelvin


----------



## Dev1984

and upgraded with AP RAM3 s.. 



















Sent from my XT1033


----------



## Rishi S

Dev1984 said:


> and upgraded with AP RAM3 s..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1033


Nice


----------



## DonH

awesome!


----------



## mikechec9

...beautes


----------



## mikechec9

Can you expound on the difference from your perspective?


----------



## Dev1984

Hi Mike.. 
comparing my old setup there is a huge difference now. now am running tweeterless setup with RAM3s. am not expert to explain.. since a music enthusiast I can feel totally front stage sound in my vehicle. am getting pure vocals than earlier and even with decent highs. right now am not missing my tweeters. bass effect came to the front dash.. really like every bit of it. since it ran only 10 to 12hrs of playback.. the drivers not yet open completely. am told it should run min 40 to 50hrs of run to open. waiting for final tune.. ☺
all thanks to Piyush & Rahuul who made to go with RAM3s.. 

Sent from my XT1033


----------



## mikechec9

Thanks for sharing. I can attest to the breakin period as well. I appreciated the process of hearing mine become more and more open and natural. Beautiful setup.


----------



## Dev1984

Thanks Mike 

Sent from my XT1033


----------



## papasin

Taking it to a whole new level. Pics don't do them justice.


----------



## Guest

The long awaited 2" drivers ???


----------



## papasin

SQ_TSX said:


> The long awaited 2" drivers ???


No. These are the new Nz3s with an AlBe Foil cone. I'll take some hi res pics later on this week and will post up some impressions. These are going to be significantly easier from an install standpoint, not to mention the performance is going to be a few notches up.


----------



## Guest

Nice


----------



## james2266

Hmm... those look interesting and NICE PLOTS man... Same mounting diameters as previous AP 3s?


----------



## 1fishman

papasin said:


> Taking it to a whole new level. Pics don't do them justice.


Look forward to hearing your impression. 
Are those grills available for purchase or are those custom?


----------



## 1fishman

papasin said:


> Taking it to a whole new level. Pics don't do them justice.


Look forward to hearing your impression. 
Are those grills available for purchase or are those custom? I imagine they would fit the whole line.


----------



## james2266

I was also wondering the same thing exactly. I think they would look perty in my Lexus over my ar3/a drivers.


----------



## papasin

james2266 said:


> Same mounting diameters as previous AP 3s?


They are 3mm wider, but a whole lot shallower and taper in.



1fishman said:


> Are those grills available for purchase or are those custom?


Grills are integrated for this driver. No touching the beryllium!


----------



## fullergoku

any word on pricing yet?


----------



## 1fishman

fullergoku said:


> any word on pricing yet?


Yeah what he said.


----------



## piyush7243

Beautiful drivers that perform the best .


----------



## 2010hummerguy

fullergoku said:


> any word on pricing yet?


+1 these look very nice


----------



## SQLnovice

I'd like to buy a pair as soon as they are available.


----------



## Rishi S

@papasin .Are the NZs joining you for the party?lol


----------



## Rishi S

double post sorry


----------



## DonH

very nice


----------



## Winno

I've gone from XR3Ms, to NZ3A, to RAM3A and finally to the NZ3AlBe.

Hands down, without any doubt, these are the best driver so far.
Very transparent and revealing, and yet, supremely musical and enjoyable.
With significant improvements in the quality and extension of the treble, imaging is truly holographic. Performers are so solid it gives me goose bumps on my arms and neck.

All those people using tweeters with their older NZ and RAM drivers, you DO NOT need to do that with Rishi's new drivers. The treble on these would rival or better some well respected dedicated tweeters.

REVIEW ATTACHED


----------



## audiophile25

Those look amazing Richard. I can't wait to see if I can get my hands on a set.


----------



## tnaudio

These look great. Contact me if you are looking for a small dealer in Tennessee


----------



## Dev1984

loved the Grills and it's beautiful. I wish I could eat that kinda of grill for my RAMs 

Sent from my XT1033


----------



## 1fishman

Dev1984 said:


> loved the Grills and it's beautiful. I wish I could eat that kinda of grill for my RAMs
> 
> Sent from my XT1033


I think you can eat those grill. LOL,
Got to love auto correct. 

I think will just have to upgrade to the NZ3AlBe get those guys. i think my wife will understand .

Are the NZ3AlBe available yet?


----------



## papasin

Rishi S said:


> @papasin .Are the NZs joining you for the party?lol


Lol Rishi. Sorry guys I dropped off a bit as I was indeed away for a little party last night but the Nzs did not join. Was at a hockey game for my brother's bachelor party so nothing too crazy, but don't want anything to happen to these beautiful drivers! 

Regarding the AP Nz3AlBe, it is my understanding that these will be sold thru dealers only, worldwide. I believe the intent and desire is to support local dealers and support the retailers, rather than how things have been done in the past. For information on dealers in your area, suggest going to the AP website for inquiry. There are limited quantities right now, and I feel fortunate to receive a set. But with my brother's wedding this weekend as well as Thanksgiving today, not going to be able to do too much but will report back as soon as possible when I have something to share. I will try go get some measurements as well comparing to a few of the different AP offerings in my little collection. I would like to thank Winno for posting his impressions of the Nz3AlBe. I am confident my findings will be very similar! 

Will be offline for a bit. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## DonH

I want some. hah


----------



## Offroader5

Great...just what I need


----------



## papasin

Sorry for the delay on my own review and getting some measurements. Am a bit under the weather and taking apart my pillars in the rain isn't at all appealing. I'll try to give it a go tomorrow though.

In the meantime, I've been asked by a couple folks what the exact OD of these drivers are. See pic below (at least according to my digital caliper) give or take.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Nice n little. Thanks Richard. Hope you feel better.


----------



## james2266

Same here. Thanks for that Richard. Its smaller than I thought it was. I should be able to install them if I should choose too later on. Hope you feel better soon. Rain can be a ***** but try -25 C with about a foot of snow over a weekend...


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I may have missed this, best way to enclose the NZ3AlBe? Leave open, seal, etc.?


----------



## papasin

Architect7 said:


> I may have missed this, best way to enclose the NZ3AlBe? Leave open, seal, etc.?


Depends on crossover. I believe Winno has his in sealed spheres, and after confirming with Rishi, if you are able, sealed would likely be ideal. However, IB should also be fine and how I intend to test my set.


----------



## Winno

Yes, mine are in fully sealed 1 litre spheres.










More recently, I've started listening to them with a round over trim stuck to the top surface of the mounting flange (covering the screws). 
Audible difference!


----------



## unemployedconsumer

Whats the width of the mounting flange and cut out diameter?


----------



## papasin

unemployedconsumer said:


> Whats the width of the mounting flange and cut out diameter?



If you mean width of mounting flange as the outer diameter, that is on post #490.

As for the cutout diameter, see below.


----------



## piyush7243

Winno said:


> Yes, mine are in fully sealed 1 litre spheres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More recently, I've started listening to them with a round over trim stuck to the top surface of the mounting flange (covering the screws).
> Audible difference!


Pics Please!!


----------



## Dev1984

Piyush 
I need that grill for my RAMs 

Sent from my XT1033


----------



## unemployedconsumer

papasin said:


> If you mean width of mounting flange as the outer diameter, that is on post #490.
> 
> As for the cutout diameter, see below.


More than helpful as always. By width of the mounting flange I mean the width of the flange the screw holes are in so I can get a trim panel fabricated to have no screw holes showing when I install. Thanks again, only asking here cause I figured maybe others may want the same info.


----------



## papasin

unemployedconsumer said:


> More than helpful as always. By width of the mounting flange I mean the width of the flange the screw holes are in so I can get a trim panel fabricated to have no screw holes showing when I install. Thanks again, only asking here cause I figured maybe others may want the same info.



I would say about 8mm, give or take.


----------



## papasin

Preview......










Got a chance to do some listening today and also take some measurements. Stay tuned, but let's just say, I was not disappointed!


----------



## papasin

Ok, here goes. First off, without jumping to the conclusion, I'd like to thank Rishi for giving me the opportunity to test his various drivers. Through this process, I've really learned a lot. I don't have super advanced testing equipment and don't intend to get something beyond my trusty Omnimic. What I've attempted to do is to try to test things in a consistent manner, and also interpret what I've measured and listened to as objectively as I can.

In the picture above, you see an install that is fairly off-axis. This is in our minivan that many of you have seen, and is definitely not the ideal install for wideband drivers. With that said, it's still an interesting environment to take some data IMHO, just to see how the drivers would respond in an off-axis environment. We often see data and many drivers only measured from their direct on-axis response. But it's seldom that we can have drivers directly on-axis in a car. We can try, but often it's not dead on. Couple that with the fact that the car itself is going to introduce more havoc than a controlled environment, and sometimes I wonder why we even try. 

With that long prelude out of the way, I went ahead and measured the response (spatial averaged) of the latest driver (Nz3AlBe) compared with some of the previous offerings in our van in the configuration pictured above.

First, the original Nz3 vs. the Nz3AlBe










It's interesting to note that the original Nz3 is a little more sensitive, however, take a look at the lower midrange response, and just overall, how the new Nz3AlBe behaves compared to the original Nz3.

Next, comparing the RAM3 vs. the Nz3AlBe










The RAM3 looks to be equal or just a tad better in the lower midrange, but above 2k is where the Nz3AlBe pulls away compared to the RAM. On-axis, as was shown more extensively previously and as people have utilized it, the RAM does ok, but it's not going to be as good out of the box as the Nz3AlBe

Finally, comparing the AR3-A vs. the Nz3AlBe










The AR3-A is really an excellent midrange and the sensitivity in the midrange is great...but off-axis, just falls like a rock at the top end and as I'm using in our van, really needs a tweeter and crossing it as low as I can afford. But with power being cheap, the linear nature of the Nz3AlBe even off-axis, one can make the argument that it could potentially be crossed even lower than the AR3-A and serve as even a better midrange driver.

So what does this mean? Well, for one, I can see why Rishi has decided to go with one driver and focus on the Nz3AlBe. It really does what all the other 3 previous drivers do, but better.

Also, I spent some time listening to the Nz3AlBe this afternoon, full range (I turned off the tweeter in the setup pictured above). They were fairly off-axis, running roughly 250 on up, and they were very good. But as others have noted, where these drivers really shine is on-axis when run full range. I decided to put the pair on the dash, just with towels behind them, and all I can say is wow. These are without a doubt the best AP 3" drivers and surpass in every way the previous ones before them.


----------



## DonH

great write up. I want to note how you mentioned the install was not a near perfect on axis installation. Drives home the fact that the driver is capable of pleasing with decent forgiveness to install. Nice review.


----------



## audiophile25

Thank you for taking the time to give us your listening impressions. They look like they are fantastic drivers.


----------



## piyush7243

Very nice review Richard for a very nice set of speakers


----------



## bertholomey

Great stuff Richard! I'm excited about these! Lookin' forward to hearing them.


----------



## james2266

Yes, as always, thanks for taking the time to compare these drivers and putting it up for all of us to read here. Any info released on pricing yet? I do find it interesting that the grill comes with the driver; should be an easy install for all. I wonder if Rishi would offer to paint the outer housing and grill for any of us?


----------



## mikechec9

Thank you kindly for the write-up. 

Maybe I am misinterpreting your report, but it looks as if the RAM loses the battle in sensitivity above 2k but it is more linear from 800hz-20k. Is that what you were making reference to...the sensitivity at >2k?


----------



## papasin

mikechec9 said:


> Thank you kindly for the write-up.
> 
> Maybe I am misinterpreting your report, but it looks as if the RAM loses the battle in sensitivity above 2k but it is more linear from 800hz-20k. Is that what you were making reference to...the sensitivity at >2k?


Depends on the install. But IME, I found running the RAMs full range a little more of a challenge when off-axis than the original Nz, and similarly compared to the newer Nz3AlBe. The increased sensitivity at the top end is quite useful in a full range application, as I would rather cut than boost. I've been very impressed with each iteration as each driver has improved upon its predecessor.


----------



## mikechec9

Thank you for the clarification. I ran the og Nz and it did better in the upper detail but I found the RAM considerably smoother throughout. But both were off axis, so I appreciate your take on the new Nz. 

And I completely agree with the overwhelming benefit of cutting as opposed to boost. Maybe atl will have a successful mt some x soon where I can hear them for myself. Your review sounds promising.


----------



## Welder88

Hello all,

I'm in Seattle, Washington, and would very much like to buy some NZ3A or NZ3AIBe speakers, but I can't find a source. Can anyone help?

Thanks!


----------



## Golden Ear

I have a used set of NZ3s I'll be selling. I don't think they are available new any longer. The NZ3albe are available thru dealers.


----------



## Rishi S




----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


>


Happy new to you Rishi n everyone here as well. Have a blast!!


----------



## papasin

Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## fullergoku

any word on price for these?


----------



## Brettilly

Any info on a release date and specs for the arian v2? I'm looking for a dedicated midrange to pair up with my nz3 and c8 midbass.


----------



## JayinMI

papasin said:


>


Yeah. I just had a set of these pass through my hands a couple weeks ago. I new they were small, but WOW! They qualify as TINY. lol...I was afraid I was going to lose them before I forwarded them to their final destination, lol.

Rishi, out of curiosity, I was thinking that maybe making them round would make for a simpler install? Or is the shape part of the functionality?

Jay


----------



## Rishi S

JayinMI said:


> Yeah. I just had a set of these pass through my hands a couple weeks ago. I new they were small, but WOW! They qualify as TINY. lol...I was afraid I was going to lose them before I forwarded them to their final destination, lol.
> 
> Rishi, out of curiosity, I was thinking that maybe making them round would make for a simpler install? Or is the shape part of the functionality?
> 
> Jay


Hi Jay, I will try to add a round frame for car audio use. I will let you know soon


----------



## FunkPnut

Don't remember seeing this, but how much power is needed for the NZ3AIBe?


----------



## papasin

FunkPnut said:


> Don't remember seeing this, but how much power is needed for the NZ3AIBe?



75-150W RMS would be what I would be comfortable with.


----------



## FunkPnut

Hmm... I'd be running a bit low if I used my Audison.

Thank you.


----------



## papasin

Depending on what pass band you plan on running, you would likely be fine with less. There are a few guys that are going to be using them for home audio that will be using less power.


----------



## JayinMI

I remember getting to hear Strakele's car with some of Rishi's speakers in it (can't remember if they were AP or Melodic Acoustic at the time) and he was pounding those 3's with like 200w/ch. They took it, and sounded awesome doing it. Headroom is a wonderful thing, but with great power comes great responsibility. lol

Jay


----------



## JayinMI

Rishi S said:


> Hi Jay, I will try to add a round frame for car audio use. I will let you know soon


Cool. Thanks! Just sounded like something that would make it easier for people to use.

Jay


----------



## papasin

Repost from FB for those that don't go on there, Ram 6.5 Mid Woofer...


----------



## JVD240

Is it going to have binding posts... or spring terminals or whatever? I've never really been a fan on mids to be honest. Looks nice though.


----------



## Golden Ear

That's looks sweet! I bet it sounds even better than it looks.


----------



## mikechec9

Beautiful driver. Is the shallow 8" version going to look similar?


----------



## fullergoku

mikechec9 said:


> Beautiful driver. Is the shallow 8" version going to look similar?


So there is a shallow 8 inch coming? how shallow it going to be?


----------



## papasin

Lol. I'll let Rishi confirm when he gets back from out of town, but I don't believe a shallow 8 is the next in line. A 2" of the same lineage of the Nz3AlBe however is likely...and would be excellent to pair up with the RAM 6.5 to make for a potent 2-way. A teaser plot that Rishi posted on his personal FB page...


----------



## audiophile25

papasin said:


> Lol. I'll let Rishi confirm when he gets back from out of town, but I don't believe a shallow 8 is the next in line. A 2" of the same lineage of the Nz3AlBe however is likely...and would be excellent to pair up with the RAM 6.5 to make for a potent 2-way. A teaser plot that Rishi posted on his personal FB page...
> 
> I am in desperate need of such a driver and anxiously await its release.


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> I am in desperate need of such a driver and anxiously await its release.


Still working lol


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> Still working lol


----------



## audiophile25

Rishi S said:


> Still working lol
> 
> I completely understand sir. I will just have to start the competition season with a different driver, then switch when yours become available.


----------



## DLO13

JayinMI said:


> I remember getting to hear Strakele's car with some of Rishi's speakers in it (can't remember if they were AP or Melodic Acoustic at the time) and he was pounding those 3's with like 200w/ch. They took it, and sounded awesome doing it. Headroom is a wonderful thing, but with great power comes great responsibility. lol
> 
> Jay


200w on a 3" AP Driver... Sounds like a GREAT idea


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> I completely understand sir. I will just have to start the competition season with a different driver, then switch when yours become available.


why not start with New NZ ?? Mount it on pillars


----------



## audiophile25

Rishi S said:


> why not start with New NZ ?? Mount it on pillars


That's a great idea actually. But it would definitely move me up one class in MECA SQ competition.


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> That's a great idea actually. But it would definitely move me up one class in MECA SQ competition.



Let me see if I can work on a 2.5 inch prototype for you. Will you mounting these on Pillars?


----------



## audiophile25

Rishi S said:


> Let me see if I can work on a 2.5 inch prototype for you. Will you mounting these on Pillars?


The limit for the class that I am in is, the diameter of the cone can be no larger than 2". They will be installed in the sail panel location at the top of the door, adjacent to the a pillars. I will be trying to gain better image width than my last competition vehicle.


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> The limit for the class that I am in is, the diameter of the cone can be no larger than 2". They will be installed in the sail panel location at the top of the door, adjacent to the a pillars. I will be trying to gain better image width than my last competition vehicle.


The overall diameter of the prototype is 72mm. Will this be acceptable?


----------



## subwoofery

Rishi S said:


> The overall diameter of the prototype is 72mm. Will this be acceptable?


What kind of price are you aiming for this 2" driver? 

One of the most expensive right now is the Scanspeak Discovery 5F (2"). 

Kelvin


----------



## 2010hummerguy

This is very exciting...I'll be getting the RAM and the SI TM65 and one pair will end up in my convertible and the other pair will end up in my Jeep...can't wait to see how both sound especially since the Arian and H6MB are two of my favorite 6.5's ever made.


----------



## Rishi S

subwoofery said:


> What kind of price are you aiming for this 2" driver?
> 
> One of the most expensive right now is the Scanspeak Discovery 5F (2").
> 
> Kelvin



Perhaps we can develop a less complex cone and place price somewhere between $100-$150 for a pair.

suggestions are welcome


----------



## Rishi S

Architect7 said:


> This is very exciting...I'll be getting the RAM and the SI TM65 and one pair will end up in my convertible and the other pair will end up in my Jeep...can't wait to see how both sound especially since the Arian and H6MB are two of my favorite 6.5's ever made.



Thank you Sir.Really appreciate your kind words and support . I will start building the Ram 6.5 next week since I have some free time until end of March.


----------



## DLO13

Any possibility of seeing an 8" version of the H6MB? 
Or a larger tweeter? Perhaps a Ring Radiator?



Btw, The Prius is already sounding great!
I am glad Richard pointed me in the right direction!


----------



## Rishi S

DLO13 said:


> Any possibility of seeing an 8" version of the H6MB?
> Or a larger tweeter? Perhaps a Ring Radiator?
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, The Prius is already sounding great!
> I am glad Richard pointed me in the right direction!



Let me see what I can work on this year. To be honest, I am kind of tied up with some contracts.:blush::blush:

would love to see some photos of the install and I would like to thank you for giving Audible Physics a shot.

Ps: you guys are welcome to add me on facebook. Just look me up


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Rishi S said:


> Thank you Sir.Really appreciate your kind words and support . I will start building the Ram 6.5 next week since I have some free time until end of March.


Awesome, I'm ready to order a pair


----------



## subwoofery

Rishi S said:


> Perhaps we can develop a less complex cone and place price somewhere between $100-$150 for a pair.
> 
> suggestions are welcome


Not necessarily asking to reduce the price, just wondering what price you were aiming at. 
Since we're on topic? Would a much complex cone reduce modes that much? Suspension has something to do with lowering resonance too I believe. 

Kelvin


----------



## Rishi S

subwoofery said:


> Not necessarily asking to reduce the price, just wondering what price you were aiming at.
> Since we're on topic? Would a much complex cone reduce modes that much? Suspension has something to do with lowering resonance too I believe.
> 
> Kelvin


All depends on the design but yes suspension is one factor. 
For example, the older nz vs the new nz, there is a very significant difference in the overall performance which i think has already been reviewed here.I would say the New Nz is utilizing a more complex cone design compared to my other line of products which are also priced much lower.


----------



## Velozity

Put in my vote for an 8" version, even if it's just a prototype. I need something to replace my Dynaudio MW170. I know they're not built yet, but how will the RAM 6.5 compare with the H6MB or Arian? This would be used for midbass duties paired with the NZ3AlBe.


----------



## seafish

Velozity said:


> Put in my vote for an 8" version, even if it's just a prototype. I need something to replace my Dynaudio MW170. .


I am just curious what you no longer like about the MW170s??

so as not to totally derail this fine thread, please feel free to PM with a a reply… I'd MUCH appreciate it as I plan to soon install a pair of MW170 that I already have into my truck doors to go along with a pair of the AP NZ3 with ATs that I will install in the a pillars…any feedback on the MW170 is appreciated.


----------



## papasin

Velozity said:


> I know they're not built yet, but how will the RAM 6.5 compare with the H6MB or Arian? This would be used for midbass duties paired with the NZ3AlBe.



If I had to guess based on the progression of the other drivers in the 3" line, the RAM 6.5 will likely combine the best of both from the H6MB and the Arians...similar to how the Nz3AlBe combined some of the best characteristics of the AR3, RAM3, and original Nz3-A. Just my hunch. 

As for the use of the RAM 6.5, my suspicion is that pairing it with the Nz3AlBe or the upcoming 2" AlBe would be the likely scenario. I can imagine a use case of putting RAM 6.5 deep in kick panels on axis, along with a set of 2" AlBe up in the corners of the dash. PLDs should be incredibly good combined with the performance of these upcoming drivers...should be a pretty sweet setup.


----------



## Velozity

seafish said:


> I am just curious what you no longer like about the MW170s??
> 
> so as not to totally derail this fine thread, please feel free to PM with a a reply… I'd MUCH appreciate it as I plan to soon install a pair of MW170 that I already have into my truck doors to go along with a pair of the AP NZ3 with ATs that I will install in the a pillars…any feedback on the MW170 is appreciated.


It wasn't that I didn't like them. PM sent.





papasin said:


> If I had to guess based on the progression of the other drivers in the 3" line, the RAM 6.5 will likely combine the best of both from the H6MB and the Arians...similar to how the Nz3AlBe combined some of the best characteristics of the AR3, RAM3, and original Nz3-A. Just my hunch.
> 
> As for the use of the RAM 6.5, my suspicion is that pairing it with the Nz3AlBe or the upcoming 2" AlBe would be the likely scenario. I can imagine a use case of putting RAM 6.5 deep in kick panels on axis, along with a set of 2" AlBe up in the corners of the dash. PLDs should be incredibly good combined with the performance of these upcoming drivers...should be a pretty sweet setup.



Thanks. If you get the prototype set to test I'd also be interested in your opinions of the RAM 6.5 versus the XR6M since I used to own that driver as well. My guess is they are designed for two different things though. I want an AP driver that will compete with the Matrix 6.1, Carbon C6/C8, MW172 or Esotar 650.


----------



## audiophile25

As for the use of the RAM 6.5, my suspicion is that pairing it with the Nz3AlBe or the upcoming 2" AlBe would be the likely scenario. I can imagine a use case of putting RAM 6.5 deep in kick panels on axis, along with a set of 2" AlBe up in the corners of the dash. PLDs should be incredibly good combined with the performance of these upcoming drivers...should be a pretty sweet setup. [/QUOTE]

Now you are thinking like I am haha. And it would fall neatly into MECA's Mod Street class.


----------



## papasin

*Audible Physics MR3-P*

I went through some of the older posts, and I think one of the suggestions was to use this thread to document the different AP drivers and have their info in one place. I'm posting the parameters on Rishi's behalf and any questions about them, please don't ask me as I'm no designer. 

So let's start with the AP MR3-P...

*Audible Physics MR3-P*



















_T/S parameters:_
Fs = 106.55 Hz
Re = 3.20 ohms[dc]
Le = 21.73 uH
L2 = 229.85 uH
R2 = 2.36 ohms
Qt = 0.70
Qes = 0.91
Qms = 3.04
Mms = 2.95 grams
Rms = 0.650077 kg/s
Cms = 0.000757 m/N
Vas = 0.64 liters
Sd= 24.63 cm^2
Bl = 2.632781 Tm
ETA = 0.08 %
Lp(2.83V/1m) = 85.24 dB

_Power Handling/Enclosure:_
Suggested Minimum Recommended Crossover Point: [email protected]/HPF
Recommended Enclosure Size: 1 liter (0,035 ft3) or Infinite Baffle

_Mounting:_
Overall Diameter: 89 mm (3.5”)
Mounting Cutout: 73 mm (2.87”)
Mounting Depth: 42 mm (1.6”)
Magnet Diameter: 65mm (2.6”)
Flange Thickness: 5mm (.20”)


----------



## papasin

*Audible Physics AR20*

*Audible Physics AR20*










_T/S parameters:_
Impedance: 4 ohms
Re: 3.7 Ohms
Fs: 2250 Hz
Qms: 1.958
Qes: 6.235
Qts: 1.49
Sensitivity: 91 (1w/1m)
Sensitivity2: 94 (2.83/1m)

_Specifications:_
Frequency response: 2.25KHz – 20KHz
Recommended usable range: 4.5KHz – 20KHz @ 24dB
Power handling at recommend crossover point: 50 Watts RMS

_Mounting:_
Overall Diameter: 31.75mm (1.6”)
Overall Diameter with flush mount cup: 44.5mm (2”)
Mounting Cutout with flush mount cup: 38 mm (1.5”)
Mounting Depth: 14mm (.55”)
Mounting Depth with flush mount cup: 15mm (.60”)


----------



## papasin

*Audible Physics H6MB*

*Audible Physics H6MB*










_T/S parameters:_
Impedance: 4 ohms
Re: 3.6 Ohms
Fs: 56Hz
Qms: 5.12
Qes: .82
Qts: .71
Linear Xmax: 4mm +/-
BL: 4.9 Tm
Sd: 137 cm2
Mms: 16.02 grams
Vas: 13.5 Liters
Sensitivity: 86.4 (1w/1m)
Sensitivity2: 89.4 (2.83/1m)

_Specifications:_
Frequency Response: 50hz – 4.5khz
Recommended usable range: 55hz – 3khz @ 24dB
Power handling without high-pass crossover: 40 watts RMS
Power handling at recommend crossover point: 150 watts RMS

_Mounting:_
Overall Diameter: 166mm (6.5”)
Mounting Cutout: 144.75 mm (5.7”)
Mounting Depth: 71mm (2.8”)
Magnet Diameter: 75mm (3”)
Flange Thickness: 4mm (.16”)


----------



## 1fishman

When do you think we will have spec's on the new Nz3AlBe or the upcoming 2" AlBe ?
I'm guessing they will posted on a website along with MSRP when they get officially launched. really interested in hearing how they do tweeter-less.


----------



## papasin

^ I'll post up as soon as I have additional info.


----------



## strakele

JayinMI said:


> I remember getting to hear Strakele's car with some of Rishi's speakers in it (can't remember if they were AP or Melodic Acoustic at the time) and he was pounding those 3's with like 200w/ch. They took it, and sounded awesome doing it. Headroom is a wonderful thing, but with great power comes great responsibility. lol
> 
> Jay





DLO13 said:


> 200w on a 3" AP Driver... Sounds like a GREAT idea



Keeping in mind that required power is very frequency dependent and the dynamic nature of music etc. etc. etc.... I ran AR3K's on amps rated at 500W per channel, and won finals with NZ3's using amps rated at 320W per channel. Gains were NOT at minimums.

These speakers can take power for days and sound great doing it. At the levels I liked to push the system to on occasion, I was never worried about hurting one of the mids. And never did. Even when an error resulted in sending a near full range (80Hz and up) signal to them. It took a while to even notice because nothing sounded wrong.

Anyway, point being don't be afraid to use some power on these speakers as long as you use a halfway reasonable high pass filter


----------



## papasin

*Audible Physics AR3-A*



















_T/S parameters:_
Fs = 93.151Hz
Re = 3.9 ohms
Qts = 0.543
Qes = 0.677
Qms = 2.764
Mms = 2.679 grams
Cms = 1.090 m/N
Vas = 1.237 liters
Sd= 28.274 cm^2
Bl = 3.007 Tm
Sensitivity = 83.6 dB

_Specifications:_
Frequency Response: 93Hz &#150; 20KHz
Recommended usable range: 190hz &#150; 15khz @ 24dbs
Power handling without high-pass crossover: 30 watts RMS
Power handling at recommend crossover point: 120 watts RMS

_Mounting:_
Overall Diameter: 89 mm (3.5&#148
Mounting Cutout: 73 mm (2.87&#148
Mounting Depth: 43 mm (1.6&#148
Magnet Diameter: 70mm (2.75&#148

Flange Thickness: 5mm (.20&#148


----------



## plcrides

oh cool the specs to my new speakers is right there.i got a set of AR3'S with grills that i will soon be fiberglassing in my a pillars.so does this make me part of the team ? haha just kidding.but I'm really looking forward to hearing them,just hope i have success with aiming them.i kinda have a hard time with my music i listen to.is there a track on those test cd's that would help me?


----------



## papasin

plcrides said:


> oh cool the specs to my new speakers is right there.i got a set of AR3'S with grills that i will soon be fiberglassing in my a pillars.so does this make me part of the team ? haha just kidding.but I'm really looking forward to hearing them,just hope i have success with aiming them.i kinda have a hard time with my music i listen to.is there a track on those test cd's that would help me?


Congrats on your new speakers. There hasn't been a Team AP in the USA for a couple years. I'll defer to Rishi if that's something he wants to start back up. :surprised:

I'm not sure what you mean about using a track on test CDs to figure out how to best aim speakers. Maybe others will want to chime in...


----------



## james2266

plcrides said:


> oh cool the specs to my new speakers is right there.i got a set of AR3'S with grills that i will soon be fiberglassing in my a pillars.so does this make me part of the team ? haha just kidding.but I'm really looking forward to hearing them,just hope i have success with aiming them.i kinda have a hard time with my music i listen to.is there a track on those test cd's that would help me?





papasin said:


> Congrats on your new speakers. There hasn't been a Team AP in the USA for a couple years. I'll defer to Rishi if that's something he wants to start back up. :surprised:
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean about using a track on test CDs to figure out how to best aim speakers. Maybe others will want to chime in...


Curious on this one as well. I always have a helluva time trying to figure out the best angles to go with. I also, always think I have it off after its all done too. My current setup I wish I went with a little more on axis. My goal when glassing them in was to avoid reflections from all surfaces (windshield, and dash top mainly but also the near side glass). If I went more on axis, I think I would have less crosstalk from the reflections off the near window from the opposite side speaker but it also would of made them more in my face too. Anyways, thought I'd share my reasoning and definitely in for anybody else's thoughts on this just in case I convince myself to attempt yet another set of apillars.


----------



## plcrides

oh i was just kidding about being part of the team.as for aiming them,i always try for a two seat system,so it sounds good on both sides.i'll just find a song where the vocals aren't all over the place and go with it.do it yourself right.thats pretty much it.anyways can't wait to hear them.


----------



## james2266

plcrides said:


> oh i was just kidding about being part of the team.as for aiming them,i always try for a two seat system,so it sounds good on both sides.i'll just find a song where the vocals aren't all over the place and go with it.do it yourself right.thats pretty much it.anyways can't wait to hear them.


They will impress you. Very nice drivers for sure. As for getting a two seat setup with a-pillars tho - good luck without a center channel. Well, it'll sound good if your passenger doesn't care about imaging.


----------



## plcrides

imaging is what i meant,I've been reading too much on here and see the term center stage.i have a truck that has kicks and tweeters on the a/ pillars and the imaging is awesome,I'm going for the same thing but using a 3 inch instead of a tweeter oh and its in a brand new car,so I'm really going to take my time building these.


----------



## papasin

Might want to mock up the speakers with some towels behind them and play with aiming. Listen to a vocal track and see which aiming configuration gives you better focus.


----------



## DLO13

plcrides said:


> oh i was just kidding about being part of the team.as for aiming them,i always try for a two seat system,so it sounds good on both sides.i'll just find a song where the vocals aren't all over the place and go with it.do it yourself right.thats pretty much it.anyways can't wait to hear them.


Damon gave me a demo a disc that had a good track for imaging. 
I'll shoot him a text and get the name tomorrow.


----------



## james2266

DLO13 said:


> Damon gave me a demo a disc that had a good track for imaging.
> I'll shoot him a text and get the name tomorrow.


I'd be interested in this as well unless it is one I already have.


----------



## plcrides

oh yea very familiar with rolling up towels,I'm actually going to screw the speakers in the rings and then take a roll of masking tape and lay it flat on the dash by the pillar,and the wooden ring can be seated at any angle in the inner circle of the roll of tape since its a good size ring for a 3 inch.then laser pointers,or flash lights while in the process of building.

yea i could use a few track names,I've actually never ever used any of the test cd's so any songs that you think would make things easier would be appreciated thanks guys.

I'm really excited because my new head unit will be here any day,the pioneer 80 PRS yep totally psyched about this.


----------



## audiophile25

I spoke to Rishi for quite some time this morning. This was the first time I have actually spoken to him on the phone. I was impressed that he took the time out of his day to talk to me about his company and the speakers they manufacture. I am really looking forward to the new drivers he is sending. I will post my impressions as soon as they are installed.


----------



## OgreDave

I haven't had time to do a full review or anything but I'm definitely impressed w/the new NZ3's.


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> I spoke to Rishi for quite some time this morning. This was the first time I have actually spoken to him on the phone. I was impressed that he took the time out of his day to talk to me about his company and the speakers they manufacture. I am really looking forward to the new drivers he is sending. I will post my impressions as soon as they are installed.


The pleasure is all mine 



OgreDave said:


> I haven't had time to do a full review or anything but I'm definitely impressed w/the new NZ3's.


I would like to thank you for giving the new NZs a shot.


----------



## sbeezy

Rishi could you pm me the price of your drivers? I'd love to try a set in my upcoming 4way build.


----------



## papasin

sbeezy said:


> Rishi could you pm me the price of your drivers? I'd love to try a set in my upcoming 4way build.


For general contact regarding AP in the US, send an email to audiblephysics1 at gmail dot com where someone will be able to help with more info on the current offerings, an AP dealer in your area, etc.


----------



## papasin

OgreDave said:


> I haven't had time to do a full review or anything but I'm definitely impressed w/the new NZ3's.



You should post some pics. Would love to get a listen when I'm in town next.


----------



## bertholomey

Hey guys - I just posted a review of the NZ3ALBe's. 

My Review


----------



## OgreDave

papasin said:


> You should post some pics. Would love to get a listen when I'm in town next.


Richard, any time. I will try to show up to one of the meets but it's been a while for me and sometimes work takes over my life. Oh and thanks for giving me the last of the first batch  

I don't have pics to post, generally my cars look stock. The exception is the NZ3's which JT has on his FB account:


----------



## Kjekz

Whats the recommended power for the mr3-p?

Trying to decide if im gonna run them from my mosconi as 100.4 or 200.4


----------



## DLO13

Kjekz said:


> Whats the recommended power for the mr3-p?
> 
> Trying to decide if im gonna run them from my mosconi as 100.4 or 200.4


go 200.4! More power never hurts.


----------



## papasin

Kjekz said:


> Whats the recommended power for the mr3-p?
> 
> Trying to decide if im gonna run them from my mosconi as 100.4 or 200.4



Two channels from an AS100.4 I assume, which should be good. But if you power them with a 200.4, it won't hurt...just set your gains appropriately.


----------



## Kjekz

Hehe, im used to setting gains by dmm, first time im gonna try to do it by ear, lets hope i dont blow them up first 

200.4 it is


----------



## Offroader5

OgreDave said:


>


I need to build myself some pods like these and rid my kick panels of the PVC pods . Almost exactly what mine would need to look like to work with my door/dash.


----------



## JayinMI

OgreDave said:


> Richard, any time. I will try to show up to one of the meets but it's been a while for me and sometimes work takes over my life. Oh and thanks for giving me the last of the first batch
> 
> I don't have pics to post, generally my cars look stock. The exception is the NZ3's which JT has on his FB account:


Sexy. Did you install the AMT's as well (somewhere?) If not, how are they doing running full range?

Jay


----------



## ben54b

Hi off-roader. How much air do they have. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Offroader5

OgreDave said:


>



BTW...where did you get the grilles? Did JT make them?


----------



## ben54b

Doh. It's ogre daves build not off-roaders. Ogre Dave do you know how much volume your enclosures have. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JayinMI

The NZ3AlBe comes with an integral grille.

Jay


----------



## papasin

JayinMI said:


> The NZ3AlBe comes with an integral grille.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay



Correct. I borrowed this pic from FB. 










...unless you're winno and pry it off.


----------



## OgreDave

JayinMI said:


> Sexy. Did you install the AMT's as well (somewhere?) If not, how are they doing running full range?
> 
> Jay


Nope, no AMTs in use in the Prius. They sound pretty good but to be honest I need to do a bunch of tuning to do a fair review. Was just over at JT's to mess w/the DSP since I can't seem to get the software to work in Windows 8  I am pretty happy w/it as is and would rather try to eq a little bit than to add tweeters.

Mine are 300+ @ 24 right now.



ben54b said:


> Doh. It's ogre daves build not off-roaders. Ogre Dave do you know how much volume your enclosures have.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, no idea .. would have to ask JT.


----------



## 1fishman

OgreDave said:


> Richard, any time. I will try to show up to one of the meets but it's been a while for me and sometimes work takes over my life. Oh and thanks for giving me the last of the first batch
> 
> I don't have pics to post, generally my cars look stock. The exception is the NZ3's which JT has on his FB account:


Great looking sails!. I assume those are open into doors and not sealed pods right? Who is JT and what's his Facebook name I'd like to see what else he does


----------



## bertholomey

1fishman said:


> Great looking sails!. I assume those are open into doors and not sealed pods right? Who is JT and what's his Facebook name I'd like to see what else he does


Here is a thread you can reference

Click this to see JT Review Thread


----------



## Offroader5

papasin said:


> Correct. I borrowed this pic from FB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...unless you're winno and pry it off.


MAN...I just upgraded to the AR3A's. Now I have to see this? 

I'm back into looking at my sails and designing pods for them. Might be a good time to bring in some new mids too 

So, if in designing the pods and using the NZ3ALBe's, and aim them only slightly off axis, say less than 20-25 degrees...do you think I'd still need the AR20's?


----------



## papasin

Offroader5 said:


> MAN...I just upgraded to the AR3A's. Now I have to see this?
> 
> I'm back into looking at my sails and designing pods for them. Might be a good time to bring in some new mids too
> 
> So, if in designing the pods and using the NZ3ALBe's, and aim them only slightly off axis, say less than 20-25 degrees...do you think I'd still need the AR20's?


Depends on a lot of factors, obviously, your aiming in your car and your ears will be the best gauge. But as others have said, I concur that of all the other AP offerings, these are (by far) the 3" that works best IME without a tweeter. I still very much enjoy the AR3-A and AR20 combo in our minivan, but if you're looking to keep an install simple (like OgreDave has done), these are one of the best choices available today...until Rishi comes up with another awesome set. :surprised:


----------



## bertholomey

papasin said:


> Depends on a lot of factors, obviously, your aiming in your car and your ears will be the best gauge. But as others have said, I concur that of all the other AP offerings, these are (by far) the 3" that works best IME without a tweeter. I still very much enjoy the AR3-A and AR20 combo in our minivan, but if you're looking to keep an install simple (like OgreDave has done), these are one of the best choices available today...until Rishi comes up with another awesome set. :surprised:


......which reminds me of this fantastic (IMO) statement in Steve's review: 










He is constantly striving to provide drivers that we will enjoy.


----------



## seafish

So doe anyone know or want to talk about how the NZ3 compares to the NZ3-AlBe??


----------



## ben54b

seafish said:


> So doe anyone know or want to talk about how the NZ3 compares to the NZ3-AlBe??



When I spoke with winno he said that the Rams are a significant improvement over the nz3 ( I own his old ones) particularly up high and the new ones blow them all away all round. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## papasin

^ this is consistent with my experience. As a fullrange driver, the Nz3AlBe trumps every previous offering, in pretty much every category.


----------



## seafish

Thanks guys…I will likely be runningthe NZ3 that I already have on axis in between the sail panel and the a pillar with the AMT tweet up high on the a pillar…BUT if I get the bux, I can drop in some NZ3 AlBe into the same location later.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

What is the the price on the NZ3 AlBe guys?


----------



## papasin

deeppinkdiver said:


> What is the the price on the NZ3 AlBe guys?



Please see post 578.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ thank you sir


----------



## 300ZXNA

Hello all, 

At the recommendation of DLO13, I have purchased a pair of AP H6MB's. I am working on the system design and would like some feedback on whether to mount these in the doors, in the kickpanels. I would like to get as much bass extension out of this as possible. My initial goals for crossover points are along the lines of 60hz and 3khz and adjust from there.

First, here are the components I have:

Car: 2008 Toyota Prius

HU: Sony CDX-8850
Processing: Helix DSP
Amps: Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.3 200w x 2 (will run the H6MB's stereo on this)
Phoenix Gold ZX450 75x2 and 250 x 1(will run tweets and bridge to subwoofer)
Tweets: Scan Speak D2004/6020 (these are the ones that work best off axis)
Sub: Illusion Audio Carbon ND-12

My options for the H6MB location is either in the door or kickpanels. I would prefer to do kicks, I just have never done them and have questions about them.

I am just unsure of whether the kicks need to be sealed, or if they are setup as more an infinite baffle. What would be the best way to set these up to handle the power from the ZPA?


----------



## piyush7243

300ZXNA said:


> Hello all,
> 
> At the recommendation of DLO13, I have purchased a pair of AP H6MB's. I am working on the system design and would like some feedback on whether to mount these in the doors, in the kickpanels. I would like to get as much bass extension out of this as possible. My initial goals for crossover points are along the lines of 60hz and 3khz and adjust from there.
> 
> First, here are the components I have:
> 
> Car: 2008 Toyota Prius
> 
> HU: Sony CDX-8850
> Processing: Helix DSP
> Amps: Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.3 200w x 2 (will run the H6MB's stereo on this)
> Phoenix Gold ZX450 75x2 and 250 x 1(will run tweets and bridge to subwoofer)
> Tweets: Scan Speak D2004/6020 (these are the ones that work best off axis)
> Sub: Illusion Audio Carbon ND-12
> 
> My options for the H6MB location is either in the door or kickpanels. I would prefer to do kicks, I just have never done them and have questions about them.
> 
> I am just unsure of whether the kicks need to be sealed, or if they are setup as more an infinite baffle. What would be the best way to set these up to handle the power from the ZPA?


They are more suited for door location than kicks. The crossover point of 60hz would be perfect and would sound really nice.


----------



## papasin

I think H6MBs in kicks would work if they were IB (vented to atmosphere), or at the minimum, vented into the frame rails. Also, IME, I would never cross in a door below 70 or 80Hz (even an 8). Going door is something I personally avoid if I can. My $0.02 FWIW.


----------



## 300ZXNA

papasin said:


> I think H6MBs in kicks would work if they were IB (vented to atmosphere), or at the minimum, vented into the frame rails. Also, IME, I would never cross in a door below 70 or 80Hz (even an 8). Going door is something I personally avoid if I can. My $0.02 FWIW.


Are there any tutorials on venting through the frame rail? I imagine that the size of the vent would be critical for the performance of the speaker? Or do you just cut a hole and then damp it with some sort of aperiodic membrane until it sounds right?

I really have no idea, but am really intrigued by the idea...


----------



## papasin

300ZXNA said:


> Are there any tutorials on venting through the frame rail? I imagine that the size of the vent would be critical for the performance of the speaker? Or do you just cut a hole and then damp it with some sort of aperiodic membrane until it sounds right?
> 
> I really have no idea, but am really intrigued by the idea...


The same person that installed OgreDave's Nz3AlBe is who I had fabricate my kick panels...and probably one of the best if not best kick panel fabricator I know. I don't have many build pics of my kick panels (and I have 8s in my kicks), but here's another car that JT did that should be able to give you some ideas.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151963950754142.1073741842.75484824141&type=1

...or maybe just drive out to CA and have him fabricate some kick panels for you!


----------



## 300ZXNA

papasin said:


> The same person that installed OgreDave's Nz3AlBe is who I had fabricate my kick panels...and probably one of the best if not best kick panel fabricator I know. I don't have many build pics of my kick panels (and I have 8s in my kicks), but here's another car that JT did that should be able to give you some ideas.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151963950754142.1073741842.75484824141&type=1
> 
> ...or maybe just drive out to CA and have him fabricate some kick panels for you!


Definitely looks very cool. I'm in ABQ so that would be a bit far unfortunately. Looking at the pics, looks like he just cut a roughly 3"x 6" hole into the frame rail with nothing more than polyfill in the kickpanel; i.e. there is no tube length to the port, nor is there any sort of AP membrane over it.


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> I think H6MBs in kicks would work if they were IB (vented to atmosphere), or at the minimum, vented into the frame rails. Also, IME, I would never cross in a door below 70 or 80Hz (even an 8). Going door is something I personally avoid if I can. My $0.02 FWIW.


Why would that be? In most Asian cars we don't have an option of kicks hence have to contend with doors. Sadly don't have a choice.


----------



## papasin

piyush7243 said:


> Why would that be? In most Asian cars we don't have an option of kicks hence have to contend with doors. Sadly don't have a choice.


I drive a Honda Civic that's a stick shift and I have 8s in my kicks. Many people told me that it is impossible to do kicks in that "Asian car", some guys told me flat out: it's NOT an option (especially having a clutch). But where there's a will, there's a way. 

If you notice in my post, I said "if I can avoid it". I'm not saying that you can't put midbasses in doors, but my point is no matter what I tried to stop the resonance in a door especially when you try to cross it low (i.e at 60Hz), it was just impossible to get rid of buzzing. I even found certain frequencies up to 100 or 125Hz at high volumes would still have some resonance.

As with kicks, you can definitely go all out with doors...you can add 30 pounds to a door with all kinds of treatments, or completely box them and fiberglass an enclosure like garysummers, badfish, or Jon W. did to theirs and get rid of resonance. But IME, kicks also affords the physical location being deep in the footwell, and reduces any tactile feedback that could be firing into your legs.


----------



## DLO13

Just for the record, I'm a big guy.. 6 foot tall size 12 feet and when I got in his car I didn't think about him having kicks. That's also with me previously owning the same gen civic and driving it for 5 years. 
It's all about the install.


----------



## piyush7243

papasin said:


> I drive a Honda Civic that's a stick shift and I have 8s in my kicks. Many people told me that it is impossible to do kicks in that "Asian car", some guys told me flat out: it's NOT an option (especially having a clutch). But where there's a will, there's a way.
> 
> If you notice in my post, I said "if I can avoid it". I'm not saying that you can't put midbasses in doors, but my point is no matter what I tried to stop the resonance in a door especially when you try to cross it low (i.e at 60Hz), it was just impossible to get rid of buzzing. I even found certain frequencies up to 100 or 125Hz at high volumes would still have some resonance.
> 
> As with kicks, you can definitely go all out with doors...you can add 30 pounds to a door with all kinds of treatments, or completely box them and fiberglass an enclosure like garysummers, badfish, or Jon W. did to theirs and get rid of resonance. But IME, kicks also affords the physical location being deep in the footwell, and reduces any tactile feedback that could be firing into your legs.


Sadly my car is a Manual Transmission like most cars in India and Right Hand Drive,The Accelerator, Brake and Clutch Pedal, doesnt leave us with space on the right side to get a MB in Kicks. 


DLO13 said:


> Just for the record, I'm a big guy.. 6 foot tall size 12 feet and when I got in his car I didn't think about him having kicks. That's also with me previously owning the same gen civic and driving it for 5 years.
> It's all about the install.


Yeah it depends upon the install a lot, as i also have a Honda, i am pretty comfortable with the MB in doors, but that tactile feedback is always there when they are pounding


----------



## tjswarbrick

DLO13 said:


> Just for the record, I'm a big guy.. 6 foot tall size 12 feet and when I got in his car I didn't think about him having kicks. That's also with me previously owning the same gen civic and driving it for 5 years.
> It's all about the install.


+1 

I too am 6' with size 12s and had no problem in Papasins' Civic. Even worked the clutch and shifter to make sure. 
Oh. And the sound - awesome.


----------



## james2266

tjswarbrick said:


> +1
> 
> I too am 6' with size 12s and had no problem in Papasins' Civic. Even worked the clutch and shifter to make sure.
> Oh. And the sound - awesome.


+2 I'll play. I'm 6'4" and size 11-12 shoes too and while I always feel cramped in any car these days, I could of driven that Civic just fine I think. Sound was impressive of course too.


----------



## james2266

BTW, I have my Illusion C8s in the doors of my Lexus and I have virtually no rattles but that was after going into those doors many many many times trying to further deaden/isolate things to stop the rattles. I do notice that I have some issues getting a solid center image at certain lower frequency ranges with my midbasses. I also notice the entire door panel is transfering the sound wave and I do get some serious pant leg action from the drivers. I have wondered for some time if this is causing the issues with the lower midbass frequencies centering up. I have tried everything here too guys (time alignment, massive eq swings, levels, etc). I also find I have to use alot more eq than I would hope for to get the response I want too. All of this talk has me rethinking possibly going with kicks for my midbass or at least looking into feasibility of this further. I'm also seriously considering grabbing one of those soon to be released SI 12's and attempting an up front sub in the pass. footwell too which could severely prevent that from taking place too however. Only so much room up there.


----------



## papasin

Thanks for the kind words guys. James, you and DLO need to take a relisten. Tom has heard the recent build and tune, and I would say conservatively it is MUCH MUCH better. Hard to quantify, but from a MECA scoresheet it went up about 5-8 points!  The two to three recent events I competed in were also 3x comps so had 7 judges all together, not one had any complaint about the kicks. 

Another attribute is that L/R balance is also easier with kicks since the PLDs are lower. But again, it's not for everyone and I certainly acknowledge each car is different. We couldn't fit kicks in the Smart for example either.


----------



## james2266

papasin said:


> Thanks for the kind words guys. James, you and DLO need to take a relisten. Tom has heard the recent build and tune, and I would say conservatively it is MUCH MUCH better. Hard to quantify, but from a MECA scoresheet it went up about 5-8 points!  The two to three recent events I competed in were also 3x comps so had 7 judges all together, not one had any complaint about the kicks.
> 
> Another attribute is that L/R balance is also easier with kicks since the PLDs are lower. But again, it's not for everyone and I certainly acknowledge each car is different. We couldn't fit kicks in the Smart for example either.


I would love to have a re-listen Richard. It's just a shame that it is about a 30 hour car ride away. I really wish I had access to even 100th of what you guys have down there for car audio. i really, truly live in the wrong area of the world to be into this hobby. I just can't seem to find anything that I find more intriguing tho.


----------



## james2266

papasin said:


> Thanks for the kind words guys. James, you and DLO need to take a relisten. Tom has heard the recent build and tune, and I would say conservatively it is MUCH MUCH better. Hard to quantify, but from a MECA scoresheet it went up about 5-8 points!  The two to three recent events I competed in were also 3x comps so had 7 judges all together, not one had any complaint about the kicks.
> 
> Another attribute is that L/R balance is also easier with kicks since the PLDs are lower. But again, it's not for everyone and I certainly acknowledge each car is different. We couldn't fit kicks in the Smart for example either.


BTW, what are you running for equipment up front now anyways? I'll have to go to your build log and take a relook. I don't think you are using AP drivers at all anymore and I think you have moved from Illusion c4 now too if I recall. I know you are using Zapco now too for power. It likely does sound much different now.


----------



## JayinMI

Regarding installing speakers in the kicks vented into the kicks or frame rail...check out Highly's VW. I believe the idea is to have the opening be equal to or greater than the surface area of the cone, ideally.

Jay


----------



## 300ZXNA

Thanks for the ideas and links to how other projects were done. I keep coming back to the idea of trying to create some AP kickpanels that vent into the frame rail, however I'm a little fuzzy on the theory and physics of this arrangement.

So here is my line of thought, let me see if I have this correct: if you just do sealed kickpanels, the extremely small airspace will lead to poor low end extension though better power handling. Venting into the frame rails would improve low end extension, but since it would essentially be an IB setup, power handling is compromised. So this brings up what would happen if an AP into the frame rail was used. Seems it would be a compromise between the two, no? I know that normally AP vents lead to reduced low end extension, but my understanding is that that is because the AP is leaking sound waves back into the listening space, canceling out lower frequencies. So if it was instead vented into the frame rail, that would isolate the front and rear waves. Would that setup then lead to power handling and low end extension that would be a compromise between IB and sealed?


----------



## 300ZXNA

Through poking around on the internet yesterday, I think I may have answered my own questions. I found a good article on AP membranes basically saying that the speaker needs to have a low Qts for it to benefit from an AP enclosure. Which the H6MB is not. Modeling it is WinISD it appears that it is optimized for pretty close to an infinite baffle install. 

So it appears that kickpanel enclosures should only be an option if I vent the rear of the speaker since it really would not like a small enclosure.


----------



## papasin

Someone asked about T/S parameters for Nz3AlBe. See below.

*Audible Physics Nz3AlBe*

_T/S parameters:_
Fs = 110.224Hz
Re = 3.8 ohms
Qts = 0.787
Qes = 1.217
Qms = 2.229
Mms = 2.138 grams
Cms = 975.105u m/N
Vas = 1.107 liters
Sd= 28.274 cm^2
Bl = 2.150 Tm
Sensitivity = 82.7 dB


----------



## tjswarbrick

Which AP 3-incher has the smoothest off-axis response to work best in a cross-firing upper door location as a midrange from ~300-4kHz in a 3-way front setup? (Such as 2-or 3-series BMW, G37 Infiniti, etc.)?


----------



## papasin

tjswarbrick said:


> Which AP 3-incher has the smoothest off-axis response to work best in a cross-firing upper door location as a midrange from ~300-4kHz in a 3-way front setup? (Such as 2-or 3-series BMW, G37 Infiniti, etc.)?


IME, the AR3-A. The pillars in our van are fairly off-axis, and these work quite well. You are welcome to come take a listen.


----------



## tjswarbrick

I do definitely need to hear the van. Maybe I'll have time, and no sleeping kids, when I return your tools. 

I don't see the AR3-A on the AP website, and I can appreciate a good paper-cone midrange. How are the AR3-P's?


----------



## Tritty

Big fan of the AR3-P's. I am running a set of them off axis band passed from 300-4k currently and am quite happy with the results. Still playing with x'over settings though


----------



## unemployedconsumer

Have had these in my car for a while. Replaced an amp I was having issues with today and figured I would snap a pic. I love these speakers, the midrange clarity is far superior to anything I have ran before. Before I purchased these the questions I had been asking related to how they would compare to the xr3's I had in a previous car. These speakers are much more detailed and more capable running without a tweeter (not using the amt either). The bottom end on these may not be as beefy as the xr's but these sound more natural to me. A big thanks to Jay for getting these to me, and making the rings used in my sail panels, and thanks to cksigmapi for the assist in aiming them.


----------



## seafish

unemployedconsumer said:


> Have had these in my car for a while. Replaced an amp I was having issues with today and figured I would snap a pic. I love these speakers, the midrange clarity is far superior to anything I have ran before. Before I purchased these the questions I had been asking related to how they would compare to the xr3's I had in a previous car. These speakers are much more detailed and more capable running without a tweeter (not using the amt either). The bottom end on these may not be as beefy as the xr's but these sound more natural to me. A big thanks to Jay for getting these to me, and making the rings used in my sail panels, and thanks to cksigmapi for the assist in aiming them.
> 
> Don't know why the picture is upside down but damn is it making me dizzy.


So those are the NZ3 without the aatmounted on axis??

ARe you using any tweet above them?? Or plan to??

And can you please try to fix the pic?? lol


----------



## unemployedconsumer

seafish said:


> So those are the NZ3 without the aatmounted on axis??
> 
> ARe you using any tweet above them?? Or plan to??
> 
> And can you please try to fix the pic?? lol


Pic fixed i think lol. Yes these are the new Nz3AlBe without the aat mounted on axis. No tweeter installed, at some point I'll probably try them with one but its not a priority for me at this point. Next up is improving my substage.


----------



## seafish

Thanks for turning the pic around... that is exactly where I am going to mount my NZ3 (old style) in my truck, but I will also use some Illsuions CuBe tweeters that I just bought for the high end.


----------



## Rishi S

unemployedconsumer said:


> Have had these in my car for a while. Replaced an amp I was having issues with today and figured I would snap a pic. I love these speakers, the midrange clarity is far superior to anything I have ran before. Before I purchased these the questions I had been asking related to how they would compare to the xr3's I had in a previous car. These speakers are much more detailed and more capable running without a tweeter (not using the amt either). The bottom end on these may not be as beefy as the xr's but these sound more natural to me. A big thanks to Jay for getting these to me, and making the rings used in my sail panels, and thanks to cksigmapi for the assist in aiming them.


I think I have said this somewhere before in regards to your screen name , I love it and I would also like to thank you for giving the new NZ a try. Really means a lot to us.

I have seen how you have mounted the Nzs and they look really nice. I have the new Nzs running in my car too. However, I have one pair of Ats running in parallel on each side and I suggest those running AlBe to try these too.Just contact your dealer and you will get an extra pair of Ats gratis.


----------



## unemployedconsumer

Rishi S said:


> I think I have said this somewhere before in regards to your screen name , I love it and I would also like to thank you for giving the new NZ a try. Really means a lot to us.
> 
> I have seen how you have mounted the Nzs and they look really nice. I have the new Nzs running in my car too. However, I have one pair of Ats running in parallel on each side and I suggest those running AlBe to try these too.Just contact your dealer and you will get an extra pair of Ats gratis.


So you are saying to run two Ats per side (4 total)? Its hard for me to believe those little Ats can make much of a difference but if you say they do I can easily hook them up.


----------



## seafish

Curious... what IS the frequency response on the aat that comes with the nz3!!


----------



## JayinMI

unemployedconsumer said:


> Have had these in my car for a while. Replaced an amp I was having issues with today and figured I would snap a pic. I love these speakers, the midrange clarity is far superior to anything I have ran before. Before I purchased these the questions I had been asking related to how they would compare to the xr3's I had in a previous car. These speakers are much more detailed and more capable running without a tweeter (not using the amt either). The bottom end on these may not be as beefy as the xr's but these sound more natural to me. A big thanks to Jay for getting these to me, and making the rings used in my sail panels, and thanks to cksigmapi for the assist in aiming them.


Those turned out great. Glad you are happy with them. 

Jay


----------



## OgreDave

I'd be curious to try multiple AMT's but I have no idea on how to make it visually appealing ..


----------



## Weightless

Any more word on the 2"?


----------



## papasin

Weightless said:


> Any more word on the 2"?



Dealers should have them towards the end of May or early June. Email the AP mailing address for a dealer near you.


----------



## Weightless

Oh? I didn't realize they were finalized. I'd there any info on them? AP's website doesn't show much. 

Are these related to the melodic acoustics version?


----------



## papasin

Weightless said:


> Oh? I didn't realize they were finalized. I'd there any info on them? AP's website doesn't show much.
> 
> Are these related to the melodic acoustics version?



Rishi is traveling again but he messaged me saying that he'll work to update the website when he returns.

Didn't realize there was a Melodic Acoustic version. I'm happy for Mark as he helped me get a hold of AP products years back and was honored to be part of the original Team AP. However, I don't believe they have anything in common. Speaking of websites, I couldn't get to the Melodic Acoustic website, care to share where your info is coming from?


----------



## Weightless

Sorry, i wrote that in haste. I meant to say reverb acoustic. 

Rishi designs for so many different companies that sell similar products, it gets confusing. Ha.


----------



## Rishi S

Weightless said:


> Sorry, i wrote that in haste. I meant to say reverb acoustic.
> 
> Rishi designs for so many different companies that sell similar products, it gets confusing. Ha.


Hello and sorry for the confusion. These many companies you mentioned approach AP to build their products. Be assured each company's product and specifications are different, as everyone wants their own Ice Cream flavor. or CAKES and seems some of you know I am a die hard fan of cakes.


----------



## piyush7243

As Rishi Said, here is another cake he baked for me and trust me its Damn good


----------



## DLO13

It's just so beautiful!


----------



## piyush7243

DLO13 said:


> It's just so beautiful!


Yep. looks beautiful and performs really really well. Had a talk with Rishi when he came to India and told him how i want my CAKE to be and here it is. 

Now i want my CAKE!!


----------



## Weightless

I guess since i am asking about a 2" driver, i would like some nutritional info on the cupcake that you will be releasing soon. Chocolate frosting is preferred.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

piyush7243 said:


> As Rishi Said, here is another cake he baked for me and trust me its Damn good


These are going to be AMAZING!


----------



## Rishi S

Weightless said:


> I guess since i am asking about a 2" driver, i would like some nutritional info on the cupcake that you will be releasing soon. Chocolate frosting is preferred.


Vanilla butter cupcake with sprinkles


----------



## Rishi S

DLO13 said:


> It's just so beautiful!


----------



## DLO13

Rishi S said:


> Vanilla butter cupcake with sprinkles


I want some! Preferably a 2" cupcake with a copper filling, and a small 5" cake as well!


----------



## Rishi S

DLO13 said:


> I want some! Preferably a 2" cupcake with a copper filling, and a small 5" cake as well!


why does that request sound so familiar?


----------



## piyush7243

Rishi S said:


> why does that request sound so familiar?


Because that cake is in your cupboard and your eat it every day


----------



## audiophile25

I have definitely been enjoying my time so far with these 2" drivers that Rishi and Richard sent to me recently. Right now I have them playing from 600 HZ and up. I would say I really do not believe a tweeter is needed with these. They are quite efficient and had to be turned down to blend with the rest of the system. If you get a chance to audition a set, don't pass it up!


----------



## papasin

^ so modest. Based on your results, sounded like Vinny liked it. 










Congratulations, and I can't wait until you get the RAM 2.6 combo into your vehicle.


----------



## Weightless

Very cool! What is the outer dimension and depth?


----------



## audiophile25

I was fortunate enough to win the first contest I entered the car in. Vinny didn't put a lot of notes on the score sheet, but at the bottom he wrote; It ROCKS! Rishi is an artist and a craftsman. He makes some of the finest small speakers available. I am very excited to try out the new RAM combo when it is available.


----------



## papasin

Weightless said:


> Very cool! What is the outer dimension and depth?


The AP website and/or this thread will be updated when that info becomes available. The 2" set audiophile25 showed is not the final AP production run (different cake  ).


----------



## Rishi S

audiophile25 said:


> I was fortunate enough to win the first contest I entered the car in. Vinny didn't put a lot of notes on the score sheet, but at the bottom he wrote; It ROCKS! Rishi is an artist and a craftsman. He makes some of the finest small speakers available. I am very excited to try out the new RAM combo when it is available.


Congratulations my friend. I thank you for your continuous support.


----------



## Offroader5

DLO13 said:


> I want some! Preferably a 2" cupcake with a copper filling, and a small 5" cake as well!


I'm thinking an 8" midbass cake with high sensitivity frosting and maybe a neo filling.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ hahaa.. I like cakes too!


----------



## audiophile25

All this talk of cakes is making me hungry.


----------



## scottgi

Mindcrime said:


> This thread for Audible Physics product support, team chat, and general conversation. Lets try to keep things respectful


Unless I have missed something, in which case


----------



## Rishi S

Offroader5 said:


> I'm thinking an 8" midbass cake with high sensitivity frosting and maybe a neo filling.


Now that's a little too much for me to bake at this moment 



deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ hahaa.. I like cakes too!





audiophile25 said:


> All this talk of cakes is making me hungry.


Here guys dig in lol


----------



## Rishi S

scottgi said:


> Unless I have missed something, in which case


Ap fans are just spreading a little comedy. you are welcome to have a slice if you'd like.
with best compliments


----------



## JayinMI

piyush7243 said:


> As Rishi Said, here is another cake he baked for me and trust me its Damn good





DLO13 said:


> It's just so beautiful!





Architect7 said:


> These are going to be AMAZING!




So far, so good! lol

Jay


----------



## thehatedguy

How can one get a few of those little tiny tweeters?


----------



## Brettilly

Are all the amts from different speaker sets the same or do they differ per what driver they are sold with? Thanks


----------



## papasin

Brettilly said:


> Are all the amts from different speaker sets the same or do they differ per what driver they are sold with? Thanks



They are the same as far as I am aware.


----------



## papasin

Testing out the Reverb Acoustic F2BE and F5...


----------



## DLO13

Drool




papasin said:


> Testing out the Reverb Acoustic F2BE and F5...


----------



## ben54b

Love those grills. Are they custom. Or with the speakers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oops. Actually went to google and looked. Grills with speakers. And that sub looks nice. Website a little short on details though.


----------



## audiophile25

How do you like the F2be so far?
I have been enjoying them quite a bit.


----------



## papasin

audiophile25 said:


> How do you like the F2be so far?
> I have been enjoying them quite a bit.



They are very good. They have more detail at the top end than some tweeters I have tried, and to me that's very impressive.

I've been informed that the AP Ram 2.5 will be out shortly. Rishi has assured me they will not disappoint. I am looking forward to comparing them with these.


----------



## audiophile25

It is a very exciting time indeed. Rishi makes some pretty fantastic speakers.


----------



## rton20s

I look forward to checking out this latest iteration of the Smart. Hopefully, I actually have a chance to hear it before it changes again.


----------



## truckguy

I have a Dyn 110/650 combo with the 110s in pods on my dash on axis. 650s low in the door stock location. What are you thoughts on swapping out the 110s with either the Nz3albe or reverb f2be. Would I get better imaging and about the same output. I'd like to stay in a two way setup for easier tuning/time alignment etc. helix dsp for processing. Arc se amps for power. Is this a sideways move? Just continue to work on tuning what I currently have? Thanks


----------



## DLO13

truckguy said:


> I have a Dyn 110/650 combo with the 110s in pods on my dash on axis. 650s low in the door stock location. What are you thoughts on swapping out the 110s with either the Nz3albe or reverb f2be. Would I get better imaging and about the same output. I'd like to stay in a two way setup for easier tuning/time alignment etc. helix dsp for processing. Arc se amps for power. Is this a sideways move? Just continue to work on tuning what I currently have? Thanks


dyn drivers are definitely up there with the best, but I haven't heard anything like a Rishi mid or full range. I would say this... There is no way you won't be happy with them. They are natural and extremely smooth and can seamlessly melt/blend with your other drivers. Something that I don't think people consider very often is how good a driver can sound out of the box, with simple levels and crossovers set. No eq, minimal tuning and I would put Rishi's gear up against anything, in any budget. If you don't consider yourself a very skilled tuner, and even if you are ultra uber, I feel like the reverb and AP would allow you to more easily obtain a better stage and have your music sounding more realistic. 

Both of those drivers will play significantly lower, and will do it without straining, and as a direct result of that, you should be able to more easily achieve an excellent stage.


----------



## truckguy

DLO13 said:


> dyn drivers are definitely up there with the best, but I haven't heard anything like a Rishi mid or full range. I would say this... There is no way you won't be happy with them. They are natural and extremely smooth and can seamlessly melt/blend with your other drivers. Something that I don't think people consider very often is how good a driver can sound out of the box, with simple levels and crossovers set. No eq, minimal tuning and I would put Rishi's gear up against anything, in any budget. If you don't consider yourself a very skilled tuner, and even if you are ultra uber, I feel like the reverb and AP would allow you to more easily obtain a better stage and have your music sounding more realistic.
> 
> Both of those drivers will play significantly lower, and will do it without straining, and as a direct result of that, you should be able to more easily achieve an excellent stage.


Thanks for the reply. I'm hoping to get a few more opinions. I might have to wait for the RAM 2.5 to come out. The more I read I think it's going to come down to the F2Be and RAM 2.5. I don't plan on using the ATs with the Nz and don't want to lose any upper end sparkle since I'll be going "tweeterless". 

Such a great time to be in car audio with all the new innovations coming out.


----------



## bertholomey

I have the NZAlBe 3" drivers in speaker cabinets on my desk that sound phenomenal with a 300hz high pass crossover. 

I'm very pleased with the upper end response - great improvement over an already stellar set of drivers - the RAM 3" with the AT.


----------



## seafish

Can anyone please confirm for me the RMS watts on the original AP-NZ3 speakers that I have not yet installed.

The pdf I have says 15 watts and I am hoping that the number is a typo. If not, will they be able keep up with the mid door mounted ID- XS69 mid woofers getting up to 175 watts per side that I plan to run them with?? The NZ3 will be mounted mostly on-axis, deep up on the trucks dash, but facing the seats.


----------



## truckguy

bertholomey said:


> I have the NZAlBe 3" drivers in speaker cabinets on my desk that sound phenomenal with a 300hz high pass crossover.
> 
> I'm very pleased with the upper end response - great improvement over an already stellar set of drivers - the RAM 3" with the AT.


Do you also use these in your vehicle? I'm in contact with the distributor and he is bringing up some good points for why I should go with the NZAlBe over the F2Be for my 2 way setup with the 650 mid. Mostly because of size and the volume I like to listen to my music. Saying I could cross the NZ lower than I could the F2 and keeps its composure. What are other people's experience with them. I've ready thru what I could on the thread and it all seems pretty positive. Anything you don't like about them? It's always good to hear at least one negative. Even if it is small one.


----------



## bertholomey

seafish said:


> Can anyone please confirm for me the RMS watts on the original AP-NZ3 speakers that I have not yet installed.
> 
> The pdf I have says 15 watts and I am hoping that the number is a typo. If not, will they be able keep up with the mid door mounted ID- XS69 mid woofers getting up to 175 watts per side that I plan to run them with?? The NZ3 will be mounted mostly on-axis, deep up on the trucks dash, but facing the seats.


My guess, based on other spec sheets that I have seen, is that 15 watts was without a crossover - full range. The RMS with the proper high pass crossover would be significantly higher than the 15 watts stated on the pdf.


----------



## papasin

bertholomey said:


> My guess, based on other spec sheets that I have seen, is that 15 watts was without a crossover - full range. The RMS with the proper high pass crossover would be significantly higher than the 15 watts stated on the pdf.



I agree with bertholomey that the ratings are for with no crossover. I ran the original Nz3 in my Civic on a Mosconi A-class at 100x2 RMS. They were very happy with them. I was running them in about 0.7L enclosure, with a 250Hz HPF @ 24db slope.

EDIT: I found the pdf I got from Mark when he was distributing AP for the recommended power ratings with a crossover, along with recommended enclosure size. See attached.


----------



## seafish

Thanks you guys…initial XO will be about 250 at 18db and I will tune from there. They are going to be mounted in the Harman pods that I am converting from the older apple pod speakers to fit the NZ3. The cool thing about how I am doing it is that the sphere/pod that they are mounted in will be ENTIRELY adjustable in terms of aiming AFTER installation and will also be slightly sunk into the trucks dash so as not to interfere with vision. The pods will literally be able to be swiveled to be pointed straight up at the windshield, REALLY close to it, or aimed on axis at the driver or anywhere in between!! 

That being said, I didn't really think about the enclosure size. 1.75" radius sphere is only about .36 L internal volume and that does'nt even include the speaker volume or the fact that it is not a full sphere. 

Looks like I am going to have mount them AP vented in the spheres or vent the spheres into the well damped interior dash?? ANy ideas omn how that will work??

Papasin, that pdf would be very useful o have posted here..thanks!!

Plans right now are to use a Boston GTA275 that I have laying around for them, so that should be about perfect.


----------



## papasin

seafish said:


> Thanks you guys…initial XO will be about 250 at 18db and I will tune from there. They are going to be mounted in the Harman pods that I am converting from the older apple pod speakers to fit the NZ3. The cool thing about how I am doing it is that the sphere/pod that they are mounted in will be ENTIRELY adjustable in terms of aiming AFTER installation and will also be slightly sunk into the trucks dash so as not to interfere with vision. The pods will literally be able to be swiveled to be pointed straight up at the windshield, REALLY close to it, or aimed on axis at the driver or anywhere in between!!
> 
> That being said, I didn't really think about the enclosure size. 1.75" radius sphere is only about .36 L internal volume and that does'nt even include the speaker volume or the fact that it is not a full sphere.
> 
> Looks like I am going to have mount them AP vented in the spheres or vent the spheres into the well damped interior dash?? ANy ideas omn how that will work??
> 
> Papasin, that pdf would be very useful o have posted here..thanks!!
> 
> Plans right now are to use a Boston GTA275 that I have laying around for them, so that should be about perfect.


I found the pdf, see my previous post with the attachment. IMHO, 0.36L will be on the small side. I've never heard anyone tried them AP vented. That might be a cool thing to find out about (AP vented for AP speakers  lol). Let us know how it goes!


----------



## seafish

Papasin, thanks for the pdf info…will def start a build log once I have all the parts and components ready to install and I am just about there, missing mostly only down time for the truck and myself to do it all…it is fairly complicated as the build will include a FULL interior removal and full sound deadeaing treatment, including 2#/sqft sheet lead on the floor pan and up the foot wells, as well as thinsulate under the headliner all trying to quiet down the mighty cummins engine add well as the overhead lumber rack at highway speeds. Then leather seats from a later model Ram, as well as a front center seat bottom sub enclosure to house a BMmkIV that will still be available to use as a seat and will possibly be isolated from the truck floor by round cable isolators. 

All that being said, now I am going to have to look into just HOW and how MUCH to vent the pods for the NZ3. Thanks for the helpful input…at least I know now that they'l be able to keep up with the mid woofers as long as I get the pod vented right. Might as well ask now, I take to that the smaller sealed enclosure of .36L will not let me cross as low as a correctly sized or correctly vented one??


----------



## bertholomey

truckguy said:


> Do you also use these in your vehicle? I'm in contact with the distributor and he is bringing up some good points for why I should go with the NZAlBe over the F2Be for my 2 way setup with the 650 mid. Mostly because of size and the volume I like to listen to my music. Saying I could cross the NZ lower than I could the F2 and keeps its composure. What are other people's experience with them. I've ready thru what I could on the thread and it all seems pretty positive. Anything you don't like about them? It's always good to hear at least one negative. Even if it is small one.


Hi Truckguy......I do not have these currently in my vehicle. I probably don't need to explain, but I will  I have the Thesis 3-way set, which is not that big a deal or the main reason why I haven't switched......I have the Thesis 3's in custom pods on my dash, and with my installer's situation, I can't change them out easily. 

I have a feeling that the NZs could potentially do some things better than the Thesis based on my time with them in the cabinets connected to the Naim amp. I'd love to hear them with my tune on the Class A amp. 

I like the idea of the NZs for the reason you gave above - crossing over lower and still getting very good highs.....but I also like the idea in my own experience to be able to bandpass the mid bass and pour the power to them so they are able to really shine in that frequency range. 

A negative.....well, the only one that I have is that they are not a direct drop in if someone had the AP XRs in custom pillars previously  On one hand, the magnet / basket assembly makes installation much easier than the XRs for custom pillars. But....the flange is just a wee bit wider, so if you have close-tolerance pillar build with the older AP drivers, these might not fit directly into them. But......for most, that won't be an issue - if you are replacing a OEM dash speaker, this will fit easily in all of those instances. 

Not sure if you came across this impression thread on the NZs or not

AP NZ3AlBe drivers impression thread


----------



## lizardking

I've been reading this thread and find that the AP drivers might be a good choice for my 2-way tweeterless setup. Which AP driver would work best for running in the pillars mostly on-axis.....15-30 degrees? I would be looking to mate them up with my Scan Revelators around 250-400hz depending how it blends. I've been eyeing up the RAM3's.


----------



## papasin

lizardking said:


> I've been reading this thread and find that the AP drivers might be a good choice for my 2-way tweeterless setup. Which AP driver would work best for running in the pillars mostly on-axis.....15-30 degrees? I would be looking to mate them up with my Scan Revelators around 250-400hz depending how it blends. I've been eyeing up the RAM3's.



My vote would go to the Nz3AlBe. Bertholomey's thread linked before you post discusses the Nz3AlBe and compares it a little with the RAM3 in bookshelf enclosures. Should be somewhat relevant to your research to get some impressions.


----------



## lizardking

Couple questions if you don't mind?

1. How much smaller is the Nz3AIBe compared to the RAM3?

2. If you use the AMT's in parallel does that put a 2 ohm load on the amp?

3. Where can I get the Nz3AIBe? Any dealers you could PM me?


----------



## ben54b

I was under the impression that the nz3albe was 3 mm bigger in the flange. I know winno had to modify his pods that were made for nz3, Rams dropped straight in. Needed mod for albe. Winno actually won another sq comp with his two way front setup on fri night. Css sdx7 and nz albe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lizardking

ben54b said:


> I was under the impression that the nz3albe was 3 mm bigger in the flange. I know winno had to modify his pods that were made for nz3, Rams dropped straight in. Needed mod for albe. Winno actually won another sq comp with his two way front setup on fri night. Css sdx7 and nz albe.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I must of had it backwards....thought they were a tad smaller.


----------



## papasin

1. Overall OD of Nz3AlBe is ~2-3mm greater than the RAM3, but the reduction in depth and tapered magnet makes for pillar/pod/sail panel installs easier. The integrated grill also is often a feature that most here desire compared to the previous offerings, most except probably for Winno who removed his grill on the Nz3AlBe. 

EDIT: Here is a good comparo pic (picture courtesy of bertholomey) with the RAM3 on the left, Nz3AlBe on the left.










2. When I was using the AT's in parallel with the Nz3-A or the RAM3, it did not change the overall impedance.


----------



## lizardking

Thanks for the info! How does that little bugger work if it doesn't change the impedance?


----------



## Velozity

lizardking said:


> Thanks for the info! How does that little bugger work if it doesn't change the impedance?




It technically does change the impedance to the amp, but the change is so small that it has no measurable effect. The resistance of the AAT's is very high, like over 4k ohms I think.


----------



## papasin

Velozity said:


> It technically does change the impedance to the amp, but the change is so small that it has no measurable effect. The resistance of the AAT's is very high, like over 4k ohms I think.


Thanks...I should have said that the impedance change was negligible, at least, not anything that I ever thought twice about.


----------



## legend94

Would someone tell me the model number of these? Feel free to post in my thread.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...4-audible-physics-3-inch-driver-pair-new.html


----------



## papasin

legend94 said:


> Would someone tell me the model number of these? Feel free to post in my thread.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...4-audible-physics-3-inch-driver-pair-new.html


Those are the RAM3-A. Detailed info available on the AP site:

RAM 3A


----------



## legend94

papasin said:


> Those are the RAM3-A. Detailed info available on the AP site:
> 
> RAM 3A


Thank you!


----------



## Rishi S

How are you guys doing? As promised I have attached specifications of the Ram 2.6 A Car Audio Driver Combo.


----------



## lizardking

Looking for a pair of the "NZ 3 A" if anyone has a set.


----------



## Brettilly

lizardking said:


> Looking for a pair of the "NZ 3 A" if anyone has a set.


I have a pair with the amts that are bnib. Just upgraded to the albe set. Bought them from Richard last year and never used them. I do live in Canada but could get them to you for 260 shipped.


----------



## audiophile25

Rishi, thank you for the specs on the 2.6 set. They look fantastic, and I am excited to heara set.


----------



## papasin

Looks like a couple guys running Rishi's drivers did well at The Vinny this weekend. Congrats! 

https://www.facebook.com/audiblephysics1/posts/1606705549571554?notif_t=like


----------



## audiophile25

papasin said:


> Looks like a couple guys running Rishi's drivers did well at The Vinny this weekend. Congrats!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/audiblephysics1/posts/1606705549571554?notif_t=like


It was an awesome show with a great turnout. The competition was quite fierce. Most classes margin for victory was less than a point.


----------



## bertholomey

And I was informed that the NZ3AlBe was quite spectacular on the Class A Geny.....


----------



## Rishi S

Great news well done. You guys indeed make us proud.


----------



## legend94

any chance you will ever have a dedicated tweeter?


----------



## piyush7243

Great news. Great work done by Team AP.


----------



## piyush7243

legend94 said:


> any chance you will ever have a dedicated tweeter?


Wait n watch this space


----------



## Babs

Subscribed! Some folks have given me an idea for AP drivers there. I know virtually nothing about them and had original considered a conventional 3-way for a '13 Tacoma build. However utilizing a wide-bander in the stock location for a rather stealthy install might be great.

This is a tacoma door where a fellow installed an RS75. 









If this stock grill comes off, that might be a slick install somehow to show off the AP driver.


----------



## piyush7243

Babs said:


> Subscribed! Some folks have given me an idea for AP drivers there. I know virtually nothing about them and had original considered a conventional 3-way for a '13 Tacoma build. However utilizing a wide-bander in the stock location for a rather stealthy install might be great.
> 
> This is a tacoma door where a fellow installed an RS75.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this stock grill comes off, that might be a slick install somehow to show off the AP driver.


That should be a perfect fit for the RAM 2.6 set.Trust me the drivers sound sweet.You won't be disappointed


----------



## Babs

That was the driver mentioned to me.. I suspect a good install to dampen and deaden around the driver behind the card and eliminate backwave issues around the flange etc.. Trick is to do the job well. Considering the simplicity of the install, I must give it a shot.


----------



## papasin

legend94 said:


> any chance you will ever have a dedicated tweeter?


Posted on FB as "coming soon"


----------



## chillaxing

Babs said:


> Subscribed! Some folks have given me an idea for AP drivers there. I know virtually nothing about them and had original considered a conventional 3-way for a '13 Tacoma build. However utilizing a wide-bander in the stock location for a rather stealthy install might be great.
> 
> This is a tacoma door where a fellow installed an RS75.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this stock grill comes off, that might be a slick install somehow to show off the AP driver.


Yeah, I have an 06 4runner with the same driver locations. Been looking at widebanders also for a stealth build. Same as you I was thinking three way. But want to use a wideband for simplicity. AP is one of my top choices.

Don't k ow if this has been posted, but what are e looking at for a set of the 2.6?

Also, is the installer of the rs75 using the magnet to hold the driver in place?


----------



## Babs

chillaxing said:


> Yeah, I have an 06 4runner with the same driver locations. Been looking at widebanders also for a stealth build. Same as you I was thinking three way. But want to use a wideband for simplicity. AP is one of my top choices.
> 
> Don't k ow if this has been posted, but what are e looking at for a set of the 2.6?
> 
> Also, is the installer of the rs75 using the magnet to hold the driver in place?


You'll want to talk to a dealer on pricing for the AP's. Yeah your 06 I believe may be like the Gen 1 tacoma's I think. Don't know about that RS75 install but I believe he built a baffle with the two mounting points like the stock tweeter in shape similar to the tweeter mounts you see on tacotunes etc. And that's one concern I have about that spot though is all that metal directly behind the magnet. I wonder how that'd affect performance of the driver.


----------



## legend94

papasin said:


> Posted on FB as "coming soon"


awesome, i am guessing these are rishi designed all the way?

would you link where you go the photos from? i am not fb savvy


----------



## papasin

legend94 said:


> awesome, i am guessing these are rishi designed all the way?
> 
> would you link where you go the photos from? i am not fb savvy



Rishi posted it on his personal FB page.


----------



## legend94

papasin said:


> Rishi posted it on his personal FB page.


hope you didnt let the cat out!



meow


----------



## papasin

legend94 said:


> hope you didnt let the cat out!
> 
> meow



Lol. I think we're safe.


----------



## MikeDE

Anyone in the Texas region with Audible Physics to demo? I am in the San Antonio area & would be willing to travel a bit to hear them....preferably in a car. 

I would really like to hear the NZ3 Albe, but any will do.

Thanks in advance,

Mike


----------



## 2010hummerguy

papasin said:


> Posted on FB as "coming soon"


I'll take a pair of those tweets along with a pair of RAM 6.5's. 

Literally the only drivers I would even remotely consider instead of my current setup


----------



## dawaro

Where can these speakers actually purchased at? I went to the website and there is not an option to purchase or links to dealers.


----------



## papasin

dawaro said:


> Where can these speakers actually purchased at? I went to the website and there is not an option to purchase or links to dealers.


Let me quote myself. 



papasin said:


> For general contact regarding AP in the US, send an email to audiblephysics1 at gmail dot com where someone will be able to help with more info on the current offerings, an AP dealer in your area, etc.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

What size are those tweeters? And the tweets that were part of the original Ram set "I think" with the midrange and midbass were the best tweets I've ever heard. The ones above look like a fabric dome and metal dome offering?


----------



## papasin

I think Rishi may have said that the total flange size was 45mm, but I could be wrong. I believe the metal dome has gone into production.

I still run the 3-way set in our van (H6MB, AR3-A, and AR20) and if that is the set you are alluding to Hillbilly SQ, they are indeed quite nice. Looking back at the eq settings I ended up with on the tweeter, I don't think I changed more than 1-2 bands per side. Very detailed, articulate, and pretty smooth. Impressive for a metal dome and I am looking forward to the new offerings.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I never heard that midrange and midbass but heard the tweeters in Grayson's car once or twice, and MIGHT have heard them in Darrel's Altima, but not sure. I always liked the old MBQ tweets he was running.


----------



## papasin

*Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*

AP RAM 2A compared to Reverb Acoustic F2BE



















RAM 2A mounted with flush mount adapter courtesy of JT










and installed in MrsPapasin's car.


----------



## bertholomey

Those look fantastic! I'd love to hear those in that set up!


----------



## audiophile25

Those do look quite nice. How does the sound compare?


----------



## Golden Ear

I hope I get a chance to hear those


----------



## papasin

audiophile25 said:


> Those do look quite nice. How does the sound compare?



We have a very preliminary tune on the RAM2A. Take it FWIW, but comparing to the F2BE, the RAM2A is more articulate and detailed. The F2BE was very smooth, but the RAM2A brings out details in guitars and other string instruments that was not as apparent IMHO compared with the F2BE.

These are extremely versatile drivers. Put them on axis in sail panels as shown, with midbasses (installed more or less anywhere - such as a door install)...the stage is phenomenal. It is wide, high, and deep.

For anyone looking for a 2-way setup, I would strongly consider the 2.6A set. If one has existing midbasses, adding the RAM2A is a great solution. Contact your AP dealer for details or email audiblephysics1 at gmail dot com for a dealer near you.


----------



## wdemetrius1

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I never heard that midrange and midbass but heard the tweeters in Grayson's car once or twice, and MIGHT have heard them in Darrel's Altima, but not sure. I always liked the old MBQ tweets he was running.


^^


Who is Darrel?


----------



## wdemetrius1

The drivers look great Richard!


----------



## ErinH

D!

How's it going man!? hope to see you at finals. you and Marky Mark.


----------



## seafish

Is anybody still running a PAIR of the AAT tweets per EACH NZ3AlBe speaker like Rishi said he is doing??

If so, how are they wired?? differently then from one AAT per speaker?? 

And are you mounting them close in to the NZ3AlBE, or one close in and one up higher??

I will be soon receiving a pair of these and still have an extra pair of sat from the NZ3 I bought earlier…thinking about insatll options!!!


----------



## wdemetrius1

ErinH said:


> D!
> 
> How's it going man!? hope to see you at finals. you and Marky Mark.


^^

What's going on Erin? I'm doing well. I'm definitely looking to making to the Finals. Mark is doing good as well, we will probably come to the Finals together.


----------



## Rishi S

seafish said:


> Is anybody still running a PAIR of the AAT tweets per EACH NZ3AlBe speaker like Rishi said he is doing??
> 
> If so, how are they wired?? differently then from one AAT per speaker??
> 
> And are you mounting them close in to the NZ3AlBE, or one close in and one up higher??
> 
> I will be soon receiving a pair of these and still have an extra pair of sat from the NZ3 I bought earlier…thinking about insatll options!!!


Hi, you can wire direct in parallel. Mounting them close is better and one AT on each side is enough


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

wdemetrius1 said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> Who is Darrel?


Brain fart. I was thinking of a guy in the OKC area when it came to the name but your car was the car I was thinking of.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

papasin said:


> We have a very preliminary tune on the RAM2A. Take it FWIW, but comparing to the F2BE, the RAM2A is more articulate and detailed. The F2BE was very smooth, but the RAM2A brings out details in guitars and other string instruments that was not as apparent IMHO compared with the F2BE.
> 
> These are extremely versatile drivers. Put them on axis in sail panels as shown, with midbasses (installed more or less anywhere - such as a door install)...the stage is phenomenal. It is wide, high, and deep.
> 
> For anyone looking for a 2-way setup, I would strongly consider the 2.6A set. If one has existing midbasses, adding the RAM2A is a great solution. Contact your AP dealer for details or email audiblephysics1 at gmail dot com for a dealer near you.


Those are pretty much my thoughts on the 2". I'm glad you're running them the way they were intended to be run because my install won't allow it while still getting the results I want. That's why I'm going to use the tweeters corner loaded and on axis. To be honest, I'll probably be running the 2" from 1000-4000ish. I know where Rishi said the sweet spot was at 1600 but they seem pretty happy at 1000 the way I'm running them and 800 seemed a little sketchy with heavy metal at full volume. I haven't blown a speaker by accident in over 10 years so pretty comfortable with my judgement. I'll probably do a basic review without boring people by picking little details in songs apart. I want to assist people in making their own decision. The biggest quality this set has is they're forward without being overbearing in my opinion. And the little details pop out nicely without getting lost in the mix.


----------



## wdemetrius1

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Brain fart. I was thinking of a guy in the OKC area when it came to the name but your car was the car I was thinking of.


^^

I know. I was just joking with you. I'm glad that you liked my setup.


----------



## seafish

Rishi S said:


> Hi, you can wire direct in parallel. Mounting them close is better and one AT on each side is enough


Rishi, thanks for taking the time to answer my question... I am REALLY looking forward to running these. Being able to run the AAT parallel on the same channel will also leave me with enough DSP to add processed rear fill if I so desire. That being said, I AM curious ---

DO the FR charts for these speakers that are posted on the AP FB page include the AAT wired in parallel with the NZ3AlBe or are the FR plots of the 3" speaker minus the AAT??


----------



## piyush7243

seafish said:


> Rishi, thanks for taking the time to answer my question... I am REALLY looking forward to running these. Being able to run the AAT parallel on the same channel will also leave me with enough DSP to add processed rear fill if I so desire. That being said, I AM curious ---
> 
> DO the FR charts for these speakers that are posted on the AP FB page include the AAT wired in parallel with the NZ3AlBe or are the FR plots of the 3" speaker minus the AAT??


The graphs are taken without the AAT. Rishi or Richard can confirm the same

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

piyush7243 said:


> The graphs are taken without the AAT. Rishi or Richard can confirm the same
> 
> Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


Thank you..well no wonder they sound really good even without using the AAT !!

I mean they have a basically flat response from 150hz up to 15khz !!!


----------



## Arete

Anyone have specs on the Audible Physics H6MB driver? FR graph and T/S parameters?


----------



## rton20s

Arete said:


> Anyone have specs on the Audible Physics H6MB driver? FR graph and T/S parameters?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2231473-post559.html

I'm not sure if there are any FR graphs.


----------



## papasin

I honestly don't remember where I got these, but pretty sure these are H6MB graphs...


----------



## Arete

papasin said:


> I honestly don't remember where I got these, but pretty sure these are H6MB graphs...


Looks damn good. Hard to read the numbers but looks to pretty flat from 80 to about 3khz?? These speakers are designed for car use correct? When I say that I mean for use in a free air application? These can't be bought new any more can they?


----------



## adriancp

Subscribed


----------



## adriancp

Alright, going to confess my ignorance on this. Could someone explain to me the ties or correlation between Audible Physics and Reverb Acoustics? Is AP the oem manufacturer or.........?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## papasin

My understanding is AP is Rishi's own company and Reverb Acoustic licenses speakers that Rishi designs. Others in the know can correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Rishi S

papasin said:


> My understanding is AP is Rishi's own company and Reverb Acoustic licenses speakers that Rishi designs. Others in the know can correct me if I am wrong.


Your understanding is correct


----------



## adriancp

That's what I was assuming but didn't know for sure. Very cool speakers you're producing Rishi, I got to hear TNaudio's F2be's in his focus and was very very impressed!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## adriancp

****! Not TNaudio's, sorry, text that before quickly before getting my facts right. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## papasin

I think they're related


----------



## adriancp

LOL, it was Mike Myers focus that I listen to. Absolutely love the sound of that car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rishi S

adriancp said:


> LOL, it was Mike Myers focus that I listen to. Absolutely love the sound of that car
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad you like them.


----------



## audiophile25

adriancp said:


> LOL, it was Mike Myers focus that I listen to. Absolutely love the sound of that car
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Thank you sir. I am very happy you like the sound. The car is undergoing slight renovation right now, as I have a broken midbass in the driver's side door. TNaudio is my brother Chris by the way. So you we not far off.


----------



## audiophile25

Rishi designs fantastic speakers. I have tried a few of his designs in my installs, and I have always been impressed.


----------



## adriancp

Sorry about the mix up in DIYMA names. I remembered both of your real names but got the screen names mixed up. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brumledb

So, which 2" or 3" version would be best suited for dash location firing into windshield?

I can add a tweeter if need be. Is the AR 20 still made? How would the Scan D3004 match up with these?


----------



## papasin

I heard audiophile25's truck with the AR3-A firing up from the stock locations last year and enjoyed how they sounded.

I think for your case, a set with the AR20 would work well if you have the processing channels. This is the combo also I run in our minivan and am quite happy with them.


----------



## brumledb

papasin said:


> I heard audiophile25's truck with the AR3-A firing up from the stock locations last year and enjoyed how they sounded.
> 
> I think for your case, a set with the AR20 would work well if you have the processing channels. This is the combo also I run in our minivan and am quite happy with them.


Sounds like a plan. Thanks.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

The more important thing to think about is proper installation. If one driver is a little larger you might not be able to get the back of the driver properly isolated from the front of the driver. You can have the best speakers in the world but without proper installation they're pretty much worthless. Just seemed worth throwing that out there...and for what it's worth the Ram 2 and ar20 is a pretty magical combo


----------



## brumledb

Hillbilly SQ said:


> The more important thing to think about is proper installation. If one driver is a little larger you might not be able to get the back of the driver properly isolated from the front of the driver. You can have the best speakers in the world but without proper installation they're pretty much worthless. Just seemed worth throwing that out there...and for what it's worth the Ram 2 and ar20 is a pretty magical combo


I was originally considering the RAM 2 but then saw where you said Rishi suggested crossing them at 1600. But I also saw that you are running them crossed at 1k. I am currently running CDT 2" crossed at 1k and didn't want to have to raise my crossover point. I really don't have room for a 3" in the dash. It would require some modification. I have also been considering trying to glass my pillars.

How would you compare these to the Scan 5f's?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'm crossed at 1k to protect myself from myself, and they're in an enclosure. I'll have to go check the pm Rishi sent me, but I think he said .2 litres for the Ram 2 when used as a midrange. My enclosures are 2" rounded pvc endcaps with a little fiber fill in them. Not sure how much space that equates to, but they seem to be pretty happy in there. I could probably take them down to 800 safely, and may actually do that with a generous "safety gate" and ONLY use that crossing with the safety gate in the preset. 

Compared to the 5f the Ram 2 is a lot more dynamic with the little details coming through a lot easier. They're also a great deal more "forward" sounding. The 5f is a great driver though and very pleasant on the ears. The inefficiency of the 5f turns it into a current hog causing it to need 100rms or more at 8 ohms in my opinion to really make it shine. It has a HUGE coil so it can handle it. I had one of my 120.4's bridged to the pair.


----------



## lostthumb

brumledb said:


> I was originally considering the RAM 2 but then saw where you said Rishi suggested crossing them at 1600. But I also saw that you are running them crossed at 1k. I am currently running CDT 2" crossed at 1k and didn't want to have to raise my crossover point. I really don't have room for a 3" in the dash. It would require some modification. I have also been considering trying to glass my pillars.
> 
> How would you compare these to the Scan 5f's?


I have the RAM 2 and I crossed it over at 630 hz. It sounds much better than at 1600hz. 
I had a weird peak at about 600-800 hz and originally thought is was the 2" but the peak was in the midbass.

It's sounding better now.


----------



## Arete

Architect7 said:


> These are going to be AMAZING!


What are these?? Where can I find more info?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

lostthumb said:


> I have the RAM 2 and I crossed it over at 630 hz. It sounds much better than at 1600hz.
> I had a weird peak at about 600-800 hz and originally thought is was the 2" but the peak was in the midbass.
> 
> It's sounding better now.


How much power are you running to them and what are your listening habits? I do listen to my share of metal (Pantera, Metallica, Godsmack, System Of A Down, Sevendust, etc) so just wondering if the 600hz range would be safe for me.


----------



## brumledb

lostthumb said:


> I have the RAM 2 and I crossed it over at 630 hz. It sounds much better than at 1600hz.
> I had a weird peak at about 600-800 hz and originally thought is was the 2" but the peak was in the midbass.
> 
> It's sounding better now.


How do you have yours installed? Free air or enclosure?


----------



## lostthumb

Hillbilly SQ said:


> How much power are you running to them and what are your listening habits? I do listen to my share of metal (Pantera, Metallica, Godsmack, System Of A Down, Sevendust, etc) so just wondering if the 600hz range would be safe for me.


Currently, they are running off of a JL XD400/4 bridged which is rated at 200 watts per side at 4 ohms. I do like to listen to it kinda loud but my Metal days are over. I am listening to a lot of Indie Pop, Electronic, and Pop (kids) lately. FS is 138HZ and 600 hz is a lot higher. In theory, it should work but I am far from an expert. Maybe, you should try to lower the frequency is small increments to find the sweet spot. 

It just sounds better to me. Maybe it was just a nasty peak at that range from the mid bass (due to car) that I had to lower the 2" to that frequency and cut the eq for the mid bass considerably.


----------



## lostthumb

brumledb said:


> How do you have yours installed? Free air or enclosure?


These are recommended at .2L enclosures.


----------



## brumledb

lostthumb said:


> These are recommended at .2L enclosures.


Any idea what the effect would be if they were ran free air? I am not sure if I would be able to fit the enclosure into my stock location.


----------



## Arete

Is the new Audible Physics RAM 6.5 rated at 6mm xmax one way or peak to peak? I saw the specs listed for it a couple pages back but didn't see that mentioned. My guess is that it's peak to peak but hoping that it's one way.


----------



## piyush7243

Arete said:


> Is the new Audible Physics RAM 6.5 rated at 6mm xmax one way or peak to peak? I saw the specs listed for it a couple pages back but didn't see that mentioned. My guess is that it's peak to peak but hoping that it's one way.


Yep it's peak to peak 

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## adriancp

But isn't Rishi bringing the Ebony back? Supposed to be a badass midbass isn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## piyush7243

adriancp said:


> But isn't Rishi bringing the Ebony back? Supposed to be a badass midbass isn't it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will let Rishi answer that for you ?

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## lostthumb

lostthumb said:


> I have the RAM 2 and I crossed it over at 630 hz. It sounds much better than at 1600hz.
> I had a weird peak at about 600-800 hz and originally thought is was the 2" but the peak was in the midbass.
> 
> It's sounding better now.


I raised my crossover point to 1000hz and it might be better than 630hz. Scratch what I said as I am still discovering about the speakers. Might go even higher.


----------



## FunkPnut

adriancp said:


> But isn't Rishi bringing the Ebony back? Supposed to be a badass midbass isn't it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had a set in my old car and a set in a friend's car. I liked them a lot.


----------



## Rishi S

Arete said:


> Is the new Audible Physics RAM 6.5 rated at 6mm xmax one way or peak to peak? I saw the specs listed for it a couple pages back but didn't see that mentioned. My guess is that it's peak to peak but hoping that it's one way.





piyush7243 said:


> Yep it's peak to peak
> 
> Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk




*RAM 6 A 's has X max of 6mm ONE WAY*

and yes i am working on the Ar 166 (ebony) it should be released together with RAM 10


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

What's this Ram 10 you speak of? Is it a 10" subwoofer that I'll be tempted to replace my Arc 10 with? I do like the Arc a lot so will take some real convincing to replace that bad boy!


----------



## Rishi S

Hillbilly SQ said:


> What's this Ram 10 you speak of? Is it a 10" subwoofer that I'll be tempted to replace my Arc 10 with? I do like the Arc a lot so will take some real convincing to replace that bad boy!


yes its a 10 inch sub.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Any concrete details yet?


----------



## Rishi S

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Any concrete details yet?


not yet, the only thing concrete is I am starting to build one


----------



## Salami

Rishi S said:


> *RAM 6 A 's has X max of 6mm ONE WAY*


What is the price on these?


----------



## Mindcrime

Glad to see this thread still going strong! It looks like a lot has changed in the last two years. Rishi, good to see you are still making some of the best drivers in the industry!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Rishi S said:


> not yet, the only thing concrete is I am starting to build one


What power range are you shooting for? Something sensible in the 300-500 range or something more extreme as in big motor, heavy cone, long throw, tiny box, big power needed? My vote goes to the sensible approach. I think my days of throwing a lot of power to the subs are over. Hell I have more than twice the power going to my 3-way front than I do the sub:laugh:


----------



## mikechec9

Very nice prospective lineup. Where might the shallow 8" fit in this timeline of audible exotic practicality?


----------



## Velozity

Any chance the RAM 10 will be made to work well in small sealed enclosures of about .5 cu.ft? My IDQ 10v.2 is getting long in the tooth and I need to plan a replacement.


----------



## Rishi S

Velozity said:


> Any chance the RAM 10 will be made to work well in small sealed enclosures of about .5 cu.ft? My IDQ 10v.2 is getting long in the tooth and I need to plan a replacement.


Sorry for the late reply, have been really busy with projects this side. I will post specs in a few days.


----------



## chithead

Is there a dealer close to Charlotte, NC that I could get more information regarding AP products?


----------



## subterFUSE

chithead said:


> Is there a dealer close to Charlotte, NC that I could get more information regarding AP products?


Jason Bertholomey is near High Point, NC and sells AP.


----------



## chithead

Awesome! Thank you for that.


----------



## mechatron

*Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*

Hi guys I just finished installing a pair of NZ3A (non AlBe type) and they seem a little harsh at times with guitars and female vocals. They also seem a little weak on the lower frequencies.

The NZ3As are mounted on-axis and are band passed from 300Hz to 6000Hz with a 24dB slope and powered by a Mosconi AS200.4 amp. We've only done a base tune (no EQ, just band pass cross over settings, time delay and output levels on the PS8) and have a long way to go. My mate has a set of AR3P drivers so I'm wondering if these will be more suitable to my tastes or if I should continue on with tuning these NZ3As.

Sorry I'm not trying offend anyone or put this product down in any way. I'm just trying to get these drivers to really sing and get the most out of them. Thanks guys


----------



## piyush7243

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



mechatron said:


> Hi guys I just finished installing a pair of NZ3A (non AlBe type) and they seem a little harsh at times with guitars and female vocals. They also seem a little weak on the lower frequencies.
> 
> The NZ3As are mounted on-axis and are band passed from 300Hz to 6000Hz with a 24dB slope and powered by a Mosconi AS200.4 amp. We've only done a base tune (no EQ, just band pass cross over settings, time delay and output levels on the PS8) and have a long way to go. My mate has a set of AR3P drivers so I'm wondering if these will be more suitable to my tastes or if I should continue on with tuning these NZ3As.
> 
> Sorry I'm not trying offend anyone or put this product down in any way. I'm just trying to get these drivers to really sing and get the most out of them. Thanks guys


The Nz3A would require some break in period to actually let go of that harshness. Are these brand new drivers you just installed or they were playing Pink noise for some time. Please have them broken in for some time i.e 50+ hours. 

Also how much volume are you giving these guys? Try crossing them @500 and check if it decreases


----------



## mechatron

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



piyush7243 said:


> The Nz3A would require some break in period to actually let go of that harshness. Are these brand new drivers you just installed or they were playing Pink noise for some time. Please have them broken in for some time i.e 50+ hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Also how much volume are you giving these guys? Try crossing them @500 and check if it decreases



Thanks for the quick reply bud. Sorry I should have mentioned that these NZs are second hand and had plenty of running hours. And sorry I'm unsure if volume but the pillars did look this this


----------



## piyush7243

Welcome Bro. Thanks for the details, please try crossing them a bit higher and also check if you can run a quick RTA and check the same.


----------



## mechatron

*Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



piyush7243 said:


> Welcome Bro. Thanks for the details, please try crossing them a bit higher and also check if you can run a quick RTA and check the same.



Thanks buddy. Yes that's the next step - To actually use an RTA to get a better tune. And like I said before we've only done a very basic tune and these drivers produce soooo much detail however I just want to reduce the harshness and beef them up a bit more....if that makes sense.

Have you tried the NZ3As and the AR3Ps before?


----------



## piyush7243

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



mechatron said:


> Thanks buddy. Yes that's the next step - To actually use an RTA to get a better tune. And like I said before we've only done a very basic tune and there is soooo much detail but I just want to reduce the harshness and beef them up a bit more.
> 
> Have you heard the NZ3As and the AR3Ps before?


Yes i have heard bot of them before, NZ3A for extended sessions and also a little bit of AR3P. Ar3P are warmer as paper cone sounds whereas the NZ3A is very detailed. Thats why want you to do a RTA and see whats hitting your ears typically in the 3K-4K region.


----------



## mechatron

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



piyush7243 said:


> Yes i have heard bot of them before, NZ3A for extended sessions and also a little bit of AR3P. Ar3P are warmer as paper cone sounds whereas the NZ3A is very detailed. Thats why want you to do a RTA and see whats hitting your ears typically in the 3K-4K region.



That's awesome thanks buddy. I'll get an RTA done in the next few weeks and I'll report back. Do you think the AR3Ps go lower and sound beefier than the NZ3As?


----------



## piyush7243

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



mechatron said:


> That's awesome thanks buddy. I'll get an RTA done in the next few weeks and I'll report back. Do you think the AR3Ps go lower and sound beefier than the NZ3As?


The AR3P can go a little bit lower than the NZ3A but the difference is very less, regarding the other question, both are different Cone material so it's up to you what you would want. But trust me i always felt NZ3A to be a better driver as per my taste.


----------



## mechatron

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



piyush7243 said:


> The AR3P can go a little bit lower than the NZ3A but the difference is very less, regarding the other question, both are different Cone material so it's up to you what you would want. But trust me i always felt NZ3A to be a better driver as per my taste.



Excellent, thank you piyush, you're been extremely helpful. Thank you so much


----------



## piyush7243

*Re: Audible Physics Team &amp; Product Information*



mechatron said:


> Excellent, thank you piyush, you're been extremely helpful. Thank you so much


You are welcome bro. Feel free if you have any further questions

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

I'm jumping in this season with the RAM 2.6 combo. I'm pretty excited to see how my little Fiesta ST will do.


----------



## audiophile25

I can't wait to hear what you come up with. should sound great.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

My truck is sounding the best it ever has with the Ram 2.6 set and the ar20 tweeters. Hope to switch to the Ram tweeters and sub too at some point but that will be a project for next year. Did I mention I drive a Ram?:laugh:


----------



## Velozity

Rishi S said:


> Sorry for the late reply, have been really busy with projects this side. I will post specs in a few days.



Hey Rishi, any update on the 10" sub? Also, good call on using two ambiance transducers per NZ3AlBe. I just rebuilt my pods to accommodate them and it sounds outstanding.


----------



## seafish

Velozity said:


> Hey Rishi, any update on the 10" sub? Also, good call on using two ambiance transducers per NZ3AlBe. I just rebuilt my pods to accommodate them and it sounds outstanding.


So you just run the each pair of AAT in series with each NZ3 on the same channel??

I was thinking about this at one point in time and then IIRC Rishi said it was entirely unnecesary.

Care to clarify and/or subjectively describe what you hear as different??

ALSO, a pic or description of AAT placement in relation to each NZ3 would be much appreciated!!


----------



## Velozity

seafish said:


> So you just run the each pair of AAT in series with each NZ3 on the same channel??
> 
> I was thinking about this at one point in time and then IIRC Rishi said it was entirely unnecesary.
> 
> Care to clarify and/or subjectively describe what you hear as different??
> 
> ALSO, a pic or description of AAT placement in relation to each NZ3 would be much appreciated!!



Hi Clark, the AATs are in parallel with the mids, not in series. But yes, two AATs per channel. Somewhere in this thread Rishi mentioned to try this. I can't compare the sound of two AATs to one in this setup because previously I wasn't using the AATs at all. But I rebuilt my pods to put them less than 2" from the NZ3AlBe on the same plane. I've disguised them to look like a conventional tweeter. There is a sense of space around the triangles, ride cymbals, and piccolo instruments that's not as evident without using the the AATs (in my opinion). I actually saw these AAT for sale for over 5000 yen in a high end audio store on my last trip to Japan. I'm about to update my build log so you can see more pics of the install there.


----------



## cjbrownco

Subscribed


----------



## seafish

Velozity said:


> Hi Clark, the AATs are in parallel with the mids, not in series. But yes, two AATs per channel. Somewhere in this thread Rishi mentioned to try this. I can't compare the sound of two AATs to one in this setup because previously I wasn't using the AATs at all. But I rebuilt my pods to put them less than 2" from the NZ3AlBe on the same plane. I've disguised them to look like a conventional tweeter. There is a sense of space around the triangles, ride cymbals, and piccolo instruments that's not as evident without using the the AATs (in my opinion). I actually saw these AAT for sale for over 5000 yen in a high end audio store on my last trip to Japan. I'm about to update my build log so you can see more pics of the install there.


THANKS for the pix and explanation!!

For what it's worth, I DO remember Rishi talking about using a PAIR of AAT's per NZ3, but at some point, IIRC, he clarified to me that it is NOT necessarily what he meant….I HOPE he chimes in HERE at some point to again clarify this point aboput use of multiple aat's per NZ3.

That being said, your project is inspiring to me. It also makes me think that the distance and angling BETWEEN each individual AAT when insatlled as a pair could help with dispersion, in that the aats, like any other ribbon tweeter, have wide horizontal dispersion but very narrow vertical dispersion. Which, of course can be used to minimize reflections from surfaces above and below the aat. 

I have been thinking that I will mount my AAT in a single 3/4" wooden sphere directly in the center and barely in front of the NZ3, which itself will be mounted in an old Apple/HK speaker pod, hoping to achieve at least a semblance of "point source" or coincedent midrange and speaker drivers. The HK sphere is a little small (volume wise) for the NZ3, but I plan to open it up by drilling a 1" hole in its back and have that vent into the interior of a well dampened dash. If all goes well, the HK pod with NZ3 fitted into it will ALSO fit tightly into a 4" PVC coupler/ reducer, well sealed into it with with wool felt, but actually STILL adjustable for on/off axis aiming AFTER installation, while the AAT (as mentioned also recessed into its own 3/4" wood sphere) will be held in place in FRONT of the NZ3 pod by a 4" brass ring that is ALSO fully rotational (think of the moon in orbit around earth with the ring of the orbit being an actual brass ring that supports the moon…or something like that…LOL

Incredibly complex install??? ABSOLUTELY

Weird looking??? POSSIBLY

Worth it??? NO idea…but it DOES combine many ideas that I have learned here about coincident speaker placement as well as dash corner placement and I actually have all the pieces needed to do this, just not yet the time….woodshop has been busier then I expected this Winter.

Again, thanks for the pics and inspiration!!!


----------



## Velozity

Those are some neat ideas! I like the idea of being able to continually adjust the spheres. However I believe the AATs are a low effieciency piezo-electric element though, and not a ribbon tweeter by any means. So don't put to much thought into their dispersion characteristics. As long as they are within 6" of the mid in pretty much any orientation, you will still see a benefit.


----------



## katodevin

Are AATs available for purchase separately?


----------



## Ge_off_me

katodevin said:


> Are AATs available for purchase separately?


I believe so, contact Rishi to find out for sure.


----------



## katodevin

I was able to get my hands on a pair of ATTs (mainly cuz I was so curious about them). I'm also seeing a TON of cars coming from the factory with ~3" full rangers, but no tweeters. I was looking (out of curiosity) if something like these could be added to help with the top end easily.

Ran some tests on them, not really sure if I'm getting the expected results.

Basically in my observation, these guys don't do anything measurable, until you give them a TON of power. Even then, they are unnoticeable with any sort of program material coming out of other speakers.

Here is my reading. I'm using a calibrated mic 6" away from the ATT and a full range sweep. The pink reading is ambient noise. This is with my amp CRANKED, and I'm only getting ~ 15db increase over ambient. If I had a mid hooked up to the amp at the level I had it at, it would have been damaged for sure. There would be no way to hear the ATT over program material if I had anything else hooked up.










Is this expected behavior for the ATT? If so, I really don't see it doing anything at all (other than in people's heads) in the prescribed use case (I hope I'm doing something wrong).


----------



## DonH

guess what I got...


----------



## rton20s

DonH said:


> guess what I got...


If it lasts more than 4 hours. Call your doctor.


----------



## bertholomey

rton20s said:


> If it lasts more than 4 hours. Call your doctor.


Dude - that is awesome!!!


----------



## adriancp

B E A utiful!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

SEXY….Do the woofers have a grill too??


----------



## papasin

seafish said:


> SEXY….Do the woofers have a grill too??



Yep.


----------



## DonH

yeee  I paid for them EAGERLY awaiting them to come in the mail. Now I need to get onto installing


----------



## thehatedguy

Hell, no...

I would be calling everyone to brag...lol



rton20s said:


> If it lasts more than 4 hours. Call your doctor.


----------



## DonH

thehatedguy said:


> Hell, no...
> 
> I would be calling everyone to brag...lol


Always document with a small video and a high quality picture.


----------



## Winno

katodevin said:


> I was able to get my hands on a pair of ATTs (mainly cuz I was so curious about them). I'm also seeing a TON of cars coming from the factory with ~3" full rangers, but no tweeters. I was looking (out of curiosity) if something like these could be added to help with the top end easily.
> 
> 
> 
> Ran some tests on them, not really sure if I'm getting the expected results.
> 
> 
> 
> Basically in my observation, these guys don't do anything measurable, until you give them a TON of power. Even then, they are unnoticeable with any sort of program material coming out of other speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my reading. I'm using a calibrated mic 6" away from the ATT and a full range sweep. The pink reading is ambient noise. This is with my amp CRANKED, and I'm only getting ~ 15db increase over ambient. If I had a mid hooked up to the amp at the level I had it at, it would have been damaged for sure. There would be no way to hear the ATT over program material if I had anything else hooked up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this expected behavior for the ATT? If so, I really don't see it doing anything at all (other than in people's heads) in the prescribed use case (I hope I'm doing something wrong).




I've never used the ATs in my installations. Customers have also told me they feel they make no real contribution to what they're hearing from the 3" too.


----------



## ben54b

Winno said:


> I've never used the ATs in my installations. Customers have also told me they feel they make no real contribution to what they're hearing from the 3" too.


Hey win no, have you added more felt to your pillar from when I last saw it. What difference do you find the 'fingers' make.


----------



## Winno

ben54b said:


> Hey win no, have you added more felt to your pillar from when I last saw it. What difference do you find the 'fingers' make.




Yep, I have. 
Performers stand out more against a blacker background. 

For example, the main singer seems to have been placed a little closer to me now and the other performers moved further back. 

Tiny little details and micro-dynamics that give a performance it's intimacy show through better which I think is what makes front performers pop out from the background. 

Again, it's all about minimizing or controlling early deflection anomalies. 

The system as a whole is also benefitting from some specific focus on improving the t/a on the sub and its relationship with the midbasses. 

Bass is well out front of the car now, is louder, deeper, and punchier.


----------



## Rishi S

Hello every one


----------



## Guest

Hello good sir.... what's new ?


----------



## Golden Ear

Updates?!!


Sent from my mind using telekinesis


----------



## Rishi S

Haven't logged in for quite sometime now so thought I dropped in a line or two. Updates? I do apologize  haven't had much time building new drivers. Spending much of my time in design and study of various cone materials. that's about it.


----------



## b2okane

still waiting for updates mr rishi..
especially the ones that you've shown in your mobile phone. lol

ken.


----------



## lowcel

I just stumbled across this thread, thought I would show some of the goodies that I received this weekend thanks to my Audible Physic front stage. 

I did two shows this past weekend, on Saturday I went to Charlottesville, VA for the MECA Crutchfield triple points show. I then drove to New Kensington, PA for a MECA 2x show. I managed some pretty good results. 

Saturday
Best of Best of Show
Best of Show Install
Best of Show SQL
1st place SQ Street
1st place SQ Street Install
1st place RTA
1st place Park and Pound DB1
3rd place SPL Street 1
SPL PHAT Install










Sunday
Best of Best of Show
SQ Street - 1st
SQ Street Install - 1st
RTA - 1st 
SPL - Street 1 - 4th  
SPL - Park & Pound 1 - 1st
SPL - Phat Install
SQL - Phat Install
SQL - Phat Truck
SQL - Best of Show
SQ - Best of Show
Install - Best of Show










Combined.


----------



## lowcel

Some pics of my AP's.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Mr Miller that sure is alot of trophies!!

Congrats


----------



## lowcel

deeppinkdiver said:


> Mr Miller that sure is alot of trophies!!
> 
> Congrats


Thank you.


----------



## adriancp

That's awesome Bruce!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## adriancp

Am I the only one that's so overwhelmed with what Mr. Rishi posts on Facebook that I have no idea what the current product offerings are?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

adriancp said:


> Am I the only one that's so overwhelmed with what Mr. Rishi posts on Facebook that I have no idea what the current product offerings are?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All of the posts he makes are pretty much about future offerings and offering for the home audio community that will be offered through MCM.

For the latest offerings for automotive, checkout www.SLAAcoustics.com


----------



## bertholomey

lowcel said:


> Thank you.


And I totally missed a demo on Saturday! Hate it when I do that!!!

Great job Bruce! Fantastic vehicle, beautiful install, and I'll have to get another opportunity (maybe at the NCSQ Fall Meet?  ) to hear it.


----------



## adriancp

Ge_off_me said:


> All of the posts he makes are pretty much about future offerings and offering for the home audio community that will be offered through MCM.
> 
> 
> 
> For the latest offerings for automotive, checkout www.SLAAcoustics.com




Thanks for that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

bertholomey said:


> And I totally missed a demo on Saturday! Hate it when I do that!!!
> 
> Great job Bruce! Fantastic vehicle, beautiful install, and I'll have to get another opportunity (maybe at the NCSQ Fall Meet?  ) to hear it.


No love for your favorite lazy judge?


----------



## lowcel

bertholomey said:


> And I totally missed a demo on Saturday! Hate it when I do that!!!
> 
> Great job Bruce! Fantastic vehicle, beautiful install, and I'll have to get another opportunity (maybe at the NCSQ Fall Meet?  ) to hear it.


I apologize for that. Doing bobos gets a bit hectic at times. I am debating if I'm going to go for a full out bobos build next year or if I will just concentrate on SQ and SQ install.


----------



## bertholomey

Ge_off_me said:


> No love for your favorite lazy judge?


You had nothing to demo 

I failed to get you in my car for a quick listen  Guess you will have to come to NC in November


----------



## lowcel

Since finals are in October I may actually be able to get away for a day or two in order to make the NC trip. It will depend on if my wife and / or mom have any trips planned for me. I've done so many shows I'm going to have to be on my best behavior in the off sesason.


----------



## Ge_off_me

bertholomey said:


> You had nothing to demo
> 
> I failed to get you in my car for a quick listen  Guess you will have to come to NC in November


That could be feasible, we will see.

The wife and I are traveling a ton this year, so may as well finish off with a trip to NC


----------



## subiemax

Just picked up a set of Ram 136. Not finding a whole lot of info on these. Figured this would be the place to ask.
What kind of crossover fq do these like? 
Who is using this set?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'd like to see specs on the sub if it was ever brought over here. I don't see it on Tam's site so it may not have. Wouldn't hurt to start a new thread over on the general discussion forum with full specs for everything along with response graphs. If the 10" sub is just a standard woofer that takes an average sealed box and doesn't need a ton to get it moving and blending good I'd be interested in running it to give an all AP setup. The 200rms my xd800/8 is giving my Arc 10 is fine for blending purposes and was under the impression that the Ram 10 would be about the same in box and power requirements.


----------



## lowcel

Just in case anyone is on the fence about giving AP's a try I hope these pics will make your decision a little easier. 

To say that I am happy with my AP's would be a huge understatement. 

MECA
SQ Street - 1st
Install Street - 3rd
RTA - 1st

IASCA Championship
Novice SQ - 1st
Novice Install - 1st

IASCA TKE 3x event
Novice SQ - 1st
Novice Install - 1st


----------



## Babs

Fact! All the AP cars I had the privilege to hear were stellar. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lowcel

Photo by Nick A.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Babs said:


> Fact! All the AP cars I had the privilege to hear were stellar.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And to think I got mine MUCH better from the last time you heard it, and it sounded pretty damn good then. Just hope I can get the new Grand Cherokee sounding as good as my Ram does now. Truck has been good to me and really easy to do a system in. Time to move on though.


----------



## lowcel

It's been a while since this thread has been updated.

There are a few new drivers that finally made it here to the States.

First is the AP 6.25PP. This is new and improved version of the old AR166 Ebony drivers. They have a natural tone, plays well many other speakers, and efficient. Many people have been happy pairing this with low fs tweeters or wideband speakers.








[/url]AP 6.25 PP by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]AP 625 PP White by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]AP 625 PP White Back by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]AP 625P Midbass by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## lowcel

The other new drivers are the Brahma 2.6 component set. They are in limited supply. The set consist of the Ti2 wideband and Brahma 6W woofers.








[/url]Brahma 2.6 by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]


The Ti2 has a titanium cone and is very detailed and smooth.








[/url]Ti2 by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]Ti2 White by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]Ti2 White Back by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]Ti 2 by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]

The Brahma 6 W is a magnesium / alloy cone mixture. They are very good in the mid bass region. 








[/url]Brahma 6w by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]Brahma 6 W White by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]Brahma 6W White copy by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]Brahma 6 Spec Sheet by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## aldittodi

Hi, i'm one of AP user from Indonesia. I have heard some of AP's products and it's amazing and I was very very impressed, especially the Brahma and the RAM series. Now i'm using AP Vektor for the midbass but it was paired with a tweeter and passive from my old Alpine SPG17cs. I was planning to change my tweeter to a fullrange driver and play the active system. I still confused with these options :

AP Ram 2
AP Nz3a
Reverb Acoustic F2be

Here's my setup now :

Head Unit : Kenwood DDX4031
Midbass : Audible Physics Vektor
Tweeter : Alpine SPG17cs with it's passive
4ch : Rockford Fosgate 301x


----------



## lostthumb

aldittodi said:


> Hi, i'm one of AP user from Indonesia. I have heard some of AP's products and it's amazing and I was very very impressed, especially the Brahma and the RAM series. Now i'm using AP Vektor for the midbass but it was paired with a tweeter and passive from my old Alpine SPG17cs. I was planning to change my tweeter to a fullrange driver and play the active system. I still confused with these options :
> 
> AP Ram 2
> AP Nz3a
> Reverb Acoustic F2be
> 
> Here's my setup now :
> 
> Head Unit : Kenwood DDX4031
> Midbass : Audible Physics Vektor
> Tweeter : Alpine SPG17cs with it's passive
> 4ch : Rockford Fosgate 301x


They are all good options.
Do you have a DSP / Processor available?
Can you fit a 2" driver or 3.5"

For 2" (outer diamter 2.9")
AP has the RAM 2 A (alloy cone)

For 3.5" (outer diamter 3.6")
AP has the RAM 3 A (alloy cone) and NZ3 AlBe (alloy/beryllium cone)

Reverb is not AP. Just made by AP for Reverb.


----------



## rton20s

So long as this thread is being brought back up... Anyone care to comment on the differences between the Ram 1A sold by SLA Acoustics (in the US) and the 120-AL designed for and sold by MCM Electronics? 

I see the Ram 1 A is 4 Ohm rather than 8 and has a slightly lower Fs. Anything other substantial differences? Does anyone have FR or distortion graphs (including off axis) for the Ram 1A? (Rishi? )

RAM 1 A 18mm Tweeter | Audible Physics









Audible Physics 3/4" Aluminum Tweeter | 120-AL (120AL) | Audible Physics


----------



## aldittodi

lostthumb said:


> They are all good options.
> Do you have a DSP / Processor available?
> Can you fit a 2" driver or 3.5"
> 
> For 2" (outer diamter 2.9")
> AP has the RAM 2 A (alloy cone)
> 
> For 3.5" (outer diamter 3.6")
> AP has the RAM 3 A (alloy cone) and NZ3 AlBe (alloy/beryllium cone)
> 
> Reverb is not AP. Just made by AP for Reverb.


I don't have DSP/Processor, but I will change my HU into Pioneer AVH X5850BT after installed the fullrange whic is have built in processor.

How about the sound characteristic?


----------



## lostthumb

aldittodi said:


> I don't have DSP/Processor, but I will change my HU into Pioneer AVH X5850BT after installed the fullrange whic is have built in processor.
> 
> How about the sound characteristic?


I have not heard the Reverb but I know a few people who changed to the RAMs and were happy with the switch.

The RAM 2 A and RAM 3 A both have a lively presentation. It's dynamic and smooth.

The NZ3 ALBe, I have only heard once in a car. Very beautiful sounding. Very smooth and very detailed.


----------



## aldittodi

lostthumb said:


> I have not heard the Reverb but I know a few people who changed to the RAMs and were happy with the switch.
> 
> The RAM 2 A and RAM 3 A both have a lively presentation. It's dynamic and smooth.
> 
> The NZ3 ALBe, I have only heard once in a car. Very beautiful sounding. Very smooth and very detailed.


unding. Very smooth and very detailed.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the answer! Maybe I'll go for NZ3ALBe


----------



## bertholomey

aldittodi said:


> unding. Very smooth and very detailed.




Thanks for the answer! Maybe I'll go for NZ3ALBe[/QUOTE]



I have listened to the NZ3AlBe's in a car several times with Sinfoni Class A amps, and I have listened to my pair in enclosures on my home system - and I completely agree - wonderful resolution, very good range from lower midrange to upper highs!


----------



## aldittodi

bertholomey said:


> Thanks for the answer! Maybe I'll go for NZ3ALBe




I have listened to the NZ3AlBe's in a car several times with Sinfoni Class A amps, and I have listened to my pair in enclosures on my home system - and I completely agree - wonderful resolution, very good range from lower midrange to upper highs![/QUOTE]

By the way, I wanna asking a question again.
Is it true the different material of each driver component can make the sound not match? 
Exampel if the midbass made from PP, so the tweeter should be made from PP too.

In this case my AP Vektor made from PP with alumunium conus, and the NZ3ALBe made from Alumunium and Berrylium.


EDIT :
By the way, how's the look of AP RAM 3P? I never seen it before and I can't find any specs or images in Google of AP RAM 3P


----------



## Lanson

Can someone PM me realistic pricing on some drivers? I have a Colorado and it has some 3.5"-max openings in the dash. They aren't 100% on-axis so I was going to augment with some SPX tweeters in the pillars, so I really need more of a midrange instead of a full-range.


----------



## rton20s

fourthmeal said:


> Can someone PM me realistic pricing on some drivers? I have a Colorado and it has some 3.5"-max openings in the dash. They aren't 100% on-axis so I was going to augment with some SPX tweeters in the pillars, so I really need more of a midrange instead of a full-range.


If you haven't heard from him, PM lostthumb (Tam). You can also see the pricing for the AP Car Audio drivers on his website https://www.slaacoustics.com/


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## Lanson

Much appreciated, Papasin helped me out and it looks like I'm part of the family. Been looking at the woofers as well, perhaps an upgrade in the future too.

edit: researching this mega thread here for crossover points and such. These drivers are more than I had in mind for my little new truck so now I'm thinking of new possibilities. 

Rishi if you make a 6x9 woofer, I think you'd have a hot ticket for those that can't reconstruct their doors for an 8" driver. Only the ID (rare now), and the upcoming Audiofrog 6x9 currently could be considered "high-end". 

Just thinking out loud...


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## rton20s

fourthmeal said:


> Much appreciated, Papasin helped me out and it looks like I'm part of the family. Been looking at the woofers as well, perhaps an upgrade in the future too.
> 
> edit: researching this mega thread here for crossover points and such. These drivers are more than I had in mind for my little new truck so now I'm thinking of new possibilities.
> 
> Rishi if you make a 6x9 woofer, I think you'd have a hot ticket for those that can't reconstruct their doors for an 8" driver. Only the ID (rare now), and the upcoming Audiofrog 6x9 currently could be considered "high-end".
> 
> Just thinking out loud...


Quality 6x9 options is certainly someplace where the industry is lacking. Then again, even with more car manufacturers using 6x9s up front, it still seems to be quite a limited market. On Core has their new C69 coming as well, but the listed MSRP is pretty steep.


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## brumledb

Hybrid also makes the Unity 6x9 and I would say it is high-end. 

It's astounding to me how many people believe 6x9's are no good because they are oval. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lanson

brumledb said:


> Hybrid also makes the Unity 6x9 and I would say it is high-end.
> 
> It's astounding to me how many people believe 6x9's are no good because they are oval.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are 100% correct, I left out Hybrid and I need to stop doing that.

Yes, 6x9's (properly implemented) are awesome. KEF proved to me how wrong I was about ovals, about a decade ago, on this topic.

As far as market, its growing big-time. Nearly every Chevy (including my new Colorado), every new Toyota, Dodge/Jeep, Nissan, etc...they all use 6x9's.


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## jamesjones

After hearing the ID 6x9s in my Dodge I'm a 6x9 lifer.


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## dallasneon

CDT makes a bunch of different 6x9 drivers also....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## dcfis

Anyone use the Infinity Kappa Perfect 690?


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## Rishi S

fourthmeal said:


> Much appreciated, Papasin helped me out and it looks like I'm part of the family. Been looking at the woofers as well, perhaps an upgrade in the future too.
> 
> edit: researching this mega thread here for crossover points and such. These drivers are more than I had in mind for my little new truck so now I'm thinking of new possibilities.
> 
> Rishi if you make a 6x9 woofer, I think you'd have a hot ticket for those that can't reconstruct their doors for an 8" driver. Only the ID (rare now), and the upcoming Audiofrog 6x9 currently could be considered "high-end".
> 
> Just thinking out loud...


I will take your request into consideration. So sorry haven't logged in for a while.


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## dcfis

Been looking at the RAM 2A and wondering if I can use this as a wideband in the sail panel mated to a midbass with good results going tweeterless?


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## DC/Hertz

That's what it's designed to do. Pretty awesome at doing it.


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## rton20s

dcfis said:


> Been looking at the RAM 2A and wondering if I can use this as a wideband in the sail panel mated to a midbass with good results going tweeterless?


I would think that it would depend on your definitions of "wideband" and "midbass." I think of the 2A as a tweeter that can be crossed exceptionally low, moreso than a true wide band driver. I've seen people talk about crossing in the 1-1.6 kHz range. If that is the case, you'll need a midbass capable of playing that high. If you don't already have a midbass, perhaps just look at the Ram 2.6 combo. 

https://www.slaacoustics.com/products/ram-2-6-active-2-way-component-set


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## DLO13

fourthmeal S said:


> Much appreciated, Papasin helped me out and it looks like I'm part of the family. Been looking at the woofers as well, perhaps an upgrade in the future too.
> 
> edit: researching this mega thread here for crossover points and such. These drivers are more than I had in mind for my little new truck so now I'm thinking of new possibilities.
> 
> Rishi if you make a 6x9 woofer, I think you'd have a hot ticket for those that can't reconstruct their doors for an 8" driver. Only the ID (rare now), and the upcoming Audiofrog 6x9 currently could be considered "high-end".
> 
> Just thinking out loud...





Rishi S said:


> I will take your request into consideration. So sorry haven't logged in for a while.




I have used one of Rishi's 6.5" midbass (H6MB installed in doors), and also an Illusion C8 (installed in Kicks), and If I am being perfectly honest with myself, and not thinking of all the money I spent on the drivers/install, I think I liked my H6MB in the doors more. 

I am getting the Audiofrog 6x9 installed in the near future and will provide some feedback once I have them up and running. 

I would not hesitate in trying an AP 6.5", even if you are in love with the other 6x9s you have heard.


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## DC/Hertz

rton20s said:


> I would think that it would depend on your definitions of "wideband" and "midbass." I think of the 2A as a tweeter that can be crossed exceptionally low, moreso than a true wide band driver. I've seen people talk about crossing in the 1-1.6 kHz range. If that is the case, you'll need a midbass capable of playing that high. If you don't already have a midbass, perhaps just look at the Ram 2.6 combo.
> 
> https://www.slaacoustics.com/products/ram-2-6-active-2-way-component-set


When I spoke to them about using the RAM 6 to 2.5k until I can get the 2 they pretty much said not to play the 6 past 500hz. I don't know if this helps anyone but there it is.


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## rton20s

DC/Hertz said:


> When I spoke to them about using the RAM 6 to 2.5k until I can get the 2 they pretty much said not to play the 6 past 500hz. I don't know if this helps anyone but there it is.


Interesting. I have only seen on axis graphs for the Ram 6, but it looks like it is good to 1-1.5k. But without seeing off axis graphs to see that behavior, it is tough to tell. Maybe Tam or Rishi will chime in.


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## audiophile25

In most car doors you will notice a significant dip in the response around 500 HZ from the closest door which should be the most off axis.


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## lostthumb

DC/Hertz said:


> When I spoke to them about using the RAM 6 to 2.5k until I can get the 2 they pretty much said not to play the 6 past 500hz. I don't know if this helps anyone but there it is.


I think the 500 hz is just a recommended cutoff region to mate with the RAM 2. On the other side of the world, 6 db slopes are very popular. So at 500 hz at 6 db, they will extend pretty high. I had them playing at 2500 hz for about a month when I was working on my pillars. Didn't really spent the time to tune them at that point because it was only temporary. I do remember that I had to tame a few frequencies but cannot recall at the moment. It did not sound bad at all. 


If you are needing a 6.5 to play high, look at the AP 6.25PP driver. They can play high and very smooth sounding. Not as dynamic as the RAM 6.

https://www.slaacoustics.com/collections/audible-physics-driver-series/products/audible-physics-6-25-pp


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## Danny23

I the NZ3AlBe no longer produced? I can't find it on the Sla acoustics website.


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## lostthumb

Danny23 said:


> I the NZ3AlBe no longer produced? I can't find it on the Sla acoustics website.


SLA do not sell the NZ3 AlBe Drivers but they can connect to the person that does. Email [email protected]


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## lostthumb

Beautiful AP 25mm Tweeters!







[/url]AP 125 by tam.rmc, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## rton20s




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## DC/Hertz

Looks like a fairly deep chamber.


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## DC/Hertz

I wonder if a matching mid is on it's away also. I'd guess they have to have one unless this is a replacement for the 3 way.


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## crxsir121

Danny23 said:


> I the NZ3AlBe no longer produced? I can't find it on the Sla acoustics website.



https://www.slaacoustics.com/collec...-physics-nz3-albe-wideband-drivers-full-range

Mine should be here tomorrow


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## DLO13

I wanted to post this here so that these beauty's find a nice home.
I've thought about using these to make an epic set of bookshelf speakers, but I am low on funds after my recent build.


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## DBlevel

May have been asked before but anyone ever use the Ram 2a as a tweeter in a 3 way setup? Thoughts or opinions?


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## bertholomey

I saw this video earlier today 

https://youtu.be/qsfZpqtUOFA


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## damonryoung

bertholomey said:


> I saw this video earlier today
> 
> https://youtu.be/qsfZpqtUOFA


Nice... on a side note, I'd take that IB setup in a second.


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## rton20s

damonryoung said:


> Nice... on a side note, I'd take that IB setup in a second.


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## damonryoung

I'll wait for my next ride before I pull out the sawzall... Had I kept my last wagon, that would've been next.


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## Golden Ear

I’m surprised there hasn’t been any chatter on here about the rg100.4 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound

The RG 100.4 is about $700, don't quote me. From what I have seen and read it is built to last and full of quilty.


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## Huckleberry Sound

Considering a set. Thinking a few things out.


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## audiophile25

I have have been testing out a set of RG 100 in my car recently, and I really like them! I won't have time to build a set of pods for them until January. I believe these are the best that Rishi has built!


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## Lanson

these beasts are excellent https://www.slaacoustics.com/collec...ducts/audible-physics-ar3-a-3-wideband-driver

The AR20 tweeter is underrated as well. Best combo I've used and I'll continue to use them.


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## casey

been looking at the RAM 6 A to use with my RAM 2A wideband. Is the 8mm linear one way or total excursion? I have SI TM65 MKii currently so not sure if I would be upgrading or a linear move since I havent heard much about the RAM 6


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## chasingSQ

casey said:


> been looking at the RAM 6 A to use with my RAM 2A wideband. Is the 8mm linear one way or total excursion? I have SI TM65 MKii currently so not sure if I would be upgrading or a linear move since I havent heard much about the RAM 6



what you may lose in excursion you will make up x10 in sq , ive had both sets esp if you running a 2 way .


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## jamesjones

Golden Ear said:


> I’m surprised there hasn’t been any chatter on here about the rg100.4
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got a hold of a rg100 set and plan to install it in my X5 when I get it. I'll post my thoughts when it finally happens.


----------



## Ge_off_me

I'm going to have a set of RG100s paired with a pair of Dayton RS225s for a fun 2-way + sub in my Fiesta ST.


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## jamesjones

Any dealers on here able to get me one rg100 mid and tweet to use as a center channel?


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## Velozity

I too will be joining the RG100.4 club. They will replace my NZ3AlBe as the workhorse of my front stage (paired with Dynaudio MW182). Still undecided if I will use a tweeter or not. Check my build log this spring for pics and impressions.


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## jamesjones

Velozity said:


> I too will be joining the RG100.4 club. They will replace my NZ3AlBe as the workhorse of my front stage (paired with Dynaudio MW182). Still undecided if I will use a tweeter or not. Check my build log this spring for pics and impressions.


I might take the tweeter off of your hands if you decide not to use it.


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## mrichard89

Does anyone have any experience with the RG50 tweeter? Looking to pair this tweeter with a mid in a 2-way for now, but hope to add a dedicated midrange driver later on.

Matt


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## SkizeR

mrichard89 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the RG50 tweeter? Looking to pair this tweeter with a mid in a 2-way for now, but hope to add a dedicated midrange driver later on.
> 
> Matt


Good tweeter, but definitely not a tweeter designed for a two way setup 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## 1fishman

How small is too small of pods for the Audible Physics NZ3-AlBe? 

There's a guy who makes 0.4 liter pods for the NZ3-AlBe fit. Where would i cross them for 0.4 liter pods.


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## lostthumb

1fishman said:


> How small is too small of pods for the Audible Physics NZ3-AlBe?
> 
> There's a guy who makes 0.4 liter pods for the NZ3-AlBe fit. Where would i cross them for 0.4 liter pods.


.5 L to 1 L is ideal. .4 should work for the NZ3 AlBe. Please be sure that the person making the pods knows the exact dimensions. 
As far as crossing them over, you would probably need to RTA it once installed in the car. Maybe around 400hz LR4 give or take 100hz.

We have a few guys who ordered from a guy in Germany. He built them for the older NZ3 which has a smaller flange size. The NZ3 AlBe did not fit.


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## GreatLaBroski

Velozity said:


> I too will be joining the RG100.4 club. They will replace my NZ3AlBe as the workhorse of my front stage (paired with Dynaudio MW182). Still undecided if I will use a tweeter or not. Check my build log this spring for pics and impressions.


Still curious to hear your impressions.


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## 1fishman

lostthumb said:


> .5 L to 1 L is ideal. .4 should work for the NZ3 AlBe. Please be sure that the person making the pods knows the exact dimensions.
> As far as crossing them over, you would probably need to RTA it once installed in the car. Maybe around 400hz LR4 give or take 100hz.
> 
> We have a few guys who ordered from a guy in Germany. He built them for the older NZ3 which has a smaller flange size. The NZ3 AlBe did not fit.


Thanks
Good to have the NZ3 AlBe / NZ3 size issue heads up with the German Pod builder. He says he has the 0.4 pods standard for the NZ3 AlBe, but says he make any size, communication with him is a little tricky. Ill have to make sure he is clear as to which ones I have.


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## Velozity

GreatLaBroski said:


> Still curious to hear your impressions.



Right now they're still sitting on a shelf in my garage. Haven't had time to build new A-pillars yet. Hope to have it done by the end of the summer. Fortunately my NZ3AlBe are superb drivers and don't make me too anxious to upgrade.


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## GreatLaBroski

Velozity said:


> Fortunately my NZ3AlBe are superb drivers and don't make me too anxious to upgrade.


What frequencies do you have your pair crossed over at?


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## Velozity

GreatLaBroski said:


> What frequencies do you have your pair crossed over at?



350 LR4 and up. In sealed ~1L enclosures.


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## GreatLaBroski

Velozity said:


> GreatLaBroski said:
> 
> 
> 
> What frequencies do you have your pair crossed over at?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 350 LR4 and up. In sealed ~1L enclosures.
Click to expand...

Perfect, thanks! I was trying to gauge the HPF due to the very slim 0.5mm of x-max.


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## Velozity

Does anyone have TS parameters for the RG50 tweeter? I'm going to build a passive crossover network. Thanks.


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## SkizeR

Velozity said:


> Does anyone have TS parameters for the RG50 tweeter? I'm going to build a passive crossover network. Thanks.


Here ya go mike. PS, im hosting an event at the shop in late september. Come on by!


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## Velozity

SkizeR said:


> Here ya go mike. PS, im hosting an event at the shop in late september. Come on by!



Thanks Nick! I'm really hoping I can stop by to check out your new place and offer support. Spare time is a luxury with a new baby though. I'll see what I can do! :beerchug:


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## Truthunter

I'm trying to learn more about AP products.
Is there any rhyme or reason to the model number prefixes? Does AR, NZ, RG, RAM have any meaning behind them? Is there a quality/performance hierarchy?


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## Kocil

Dear all.

I just added nz3albe to my existing 2 way system.
I love the nz3albe, but now I'm tempted to replace the 2 way system.
Please recommend, which one will be more matched with the nz3albe:

a. AP ram 16
b. AP avatar 16

Some reasoning would be highly appreciated. Thank you


----------



## chasingSQ

so in regards to the nz3 albe , is anyone running them in a ib configuration ? esp with pillars or is it a mandatory deal to run them sealed , id be running them from 350 hz and up .


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## quickaudi07

I have NZ3 and love them sound great in the pillars with open back,

I also have RG50 tweeters if anyone is interested.. (brand new)


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## mrichard89

quickaudi07 said:


> I have NZ3 and love them sound great in the pillars with open back,
> 
> I also have RG50 tweeters if anyone is interested.. (brand new)



I'm tempted by these tweeters. What are you pairing with the NZ3, or are you using it as a wide-bander?


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## quickaudi07

I'm not using tweeters at all. They are paired with Audio Development W800NEO 8"

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Ericruiz911

Anyone listen to the new Avatar series yet?


----------



## mikechec9

Ericruiz911 said:


> Anyone listen to the new Avatar series yet?


No, but I will be unpleasantly surprised if they fail to include sparky sparky boom boom man


----------



## crdi_lover

Any updates on new products etc?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## rton20s

Most product updates are coming by way of Facebook these days.


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## locoface

So I got my hands on the new Aries SK3 midrange, and damn that is one thicc boi. Played around with it for rear fill and they are freaking great for the price. I'll post some pics for you all to check out and update you as these break in.


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## locoface

Jalapeño for reference. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## quickaudi07

Great reference lolz 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Ge0

locoface said:


> Jalapeño for reference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Jalapeño was clever 

Ge0


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