# State of SQ competition today?



## Buff

So I have been away from Car Audio for a while, but I am curious to the state of car audio competition today.

Anyone still competing in the US - IASCA or otherwise?

Hope all my old car audio friends on here are doing well!


----------



## ALL4SQ

It depends where you live. IASCA, USACi and Meca are still all doing shows. 

Making it to a finals if you live on the west coast is still difficult.
The Canadians know how to do a finals in my opinion. They hold one west coast finals and one east coast finals and then declare the champions. 
We really need to try this format here in the states. It could possibly help motivate a few more people to build cars and compete. 

Welcome back.


----------



## Buff

Thanks Mike,

I have been excessively busy but just got a more relaxed schedule.

Say is there a way to make announcements on here like a new business or return after a long time departure.

thanks again!


----------



## Blown Mustang GT

12Volt Dave's just did a show in Pottsville, PA about 2 weeks ago, and in MECA, there were 29 SQ cars! Not sure how many were in SPL, or in the IASCA portion of the show. I was pleasantly surprised by how many SQ cars there were, considering I was at a show in Cumming, GA a month prior and there was maybe 10 SQ cars, and a buddy of mine hosted a show in NC with about the same number of SQ cars on the same day as the GA show.


----------



## chefhow

Buff, there is a section of the forums for show and GTG anouncements, but there have been several shows in the NE with good turnouts. I hosted 2 this year in Baltimore where we had 15 SQ cars for SQ only shows. Dave had 21 cars show up for SQ total and that was an awesome turnout.


----------



## Mic10is

EVERY show I have been to this year has had a larger turn out for SQ than SPL.
I have directed 3 IASCA events. All but 1 had 15+SQ cars.

and in SPL, the big draw now is Bass boxing, not so much IDbl and your traditional test tone SPL.
Bassboxing is playing music and is head to head competition with others in your class.
1st round the vehicle is completely sealed up. next round one door open. 3rd round both doors open.

So music in general is doing well.


----------



## UNBROKEN

Why can't you just get judged on how it sounds and that's it?
There's a show coming up in Houston I had considered getting my feet wet with. 
I don't qualify for the beginner stuff because my sub is forward of my b-pillars and my STOCK alternator puts out more than they allow at idle. 

Not really feeling like walking in to a higher class and getting torn down right off the bat. 

Face it...there's some dumb ass rules that can and do keep new people out of it.


----------



## narvarr

I have been following the SQ sceen for a while (mid '90's) and think it is more of a challenge than SPL. I too ,like UNBROKEN, am considering compeating for the first time at the Houston show in November. I think sites like this one help to encourage people to get involved in the SQ side. Especially when they can talk to knowledgable people that can help them.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


----------



## Darth SQ

UNBROKEN said:


> Why can't you just get judged on how it sounds and that's it?
> There's a show coming up in Houston I had considered getting my feet wet with.
> I don't qualify for the beginner stuff because my sub is forward of my b-pillars and my STOCK alternator puts out more than they allow at idle.
> 
> Not really feeling like walking in to a higher class and getting torn down right off the bat.
> 
> Face it...there's some dumb ass rules that can and do keep new people out of it.


Sure would be nice for us that have never competed to get it right the 1st time.
I would love for someone that competes and wins in sq to post a thread regarding how everything should be wired, set up, and configured, including pics detailing every step, and with a long written list of all the things that take points away.
Now that would be helpful.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Mic10is

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Sure would be nice for us that have never competed to get it right the 1st time.
> I would love for someone that competes and wins in sq to post a thread regarding how everything should be wired, set up, and configured, including pics detailing every step, and with a long written list of all the things that take points away.
> Now that would be helpful.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


every organization posts there rulebooks available for download or viewable by PDF online.


----------



## SQ Audi

Every sanction has a list of exactly what you need. You just have to download it. 

Things to consider, FUSE everything...anything that gets current, have a fuse for it. It must be easily accessible. Make sure that all wires are protected by a secondary outer covering. The plastic/rubber that surrounds the wire is not enough. The Power cable must be fused no more than 18" from the battery. The stock alternator will not put you into a different class. But having larger than 8" drivers forward of the B-Pillar will. 

Be sure that wiring is ziptied every 4-6". Mine is done every 3". For more points, have each wire labeled at each end.

There should be NO wires extruding from any location. To get max points, make sure you have every end shrinkwrapped.

Every amplifier should have adequate cooling. Adequate cooling is NOT the built in fans. They must be in a well ventilated place, easy to get to, and remove if needed. All speakers must be protected. Depending on the sanction, you may not be able to get away with inverted subs (the cones are still exposed).

These are a few of the tid bits you will need to know for install competition.

In USAC, you have Q, SQ, and SQ+
Q=Sound only
SQ=Sound and Install
SQ+=Sound, Install and SPL

MECA you have sound only, install only, RTA only, and SPL...you will have to pay for each of these if you want to compete in each. No "one price fits all"

IASCA, you have SQC and IQC I believe. 

SQC is Sound only
IQC is Sound and Install.

The November show will be a good show. It is a USAC show at Fry's in Webster, TX.

There will be quite a few world class cars at this event. If you can't make Shreveport for WF, then this is the show to get the next season points. 

I am sorry UnBroken that you don't like the rules. I know alot of people that put a ton of time in developing the rules for SQ in USAC (myself included). We know that most people don't want to be grouped into a car that was built by a professional up against a DIY'er who just threw his car together for better sound. This is why the install will make or break the competition. If you are spunky enough to put a subwoofer forward the B-Pillars, that would make the Sub in the cabin of the vehicle which is a modification that the average joe off the street would not attempt. Therefore, it is in the class above Modified.

We can't make rules that everyone likes, we can't bend the rules to help out the ones that are just getting started. We have to play it like it reads.

Come out, listen to some cars in November, and if you feel sassy, put your truck in the lanes to see how you compare. You never know, you could surprise yourself.

--Joe
USAC SQ Judge
MECA SQ Judge


----------



## Mic10is

^^^^^^^^
Joe Nailed a couple key points.
rules cant be made to make everyone happy, but the current rules for most organizations are as about as fair as they have ever been.

the interesting dynamic we now have, that has never been a major factor before, is the internet. Forums like this, provide people with a wealth of knowledge and give many people the basis to attempt things that were typically even 10years ago reserved for "professionals".
things like up front subwoofers, externally vented kick panels, apillars with multiple speakers etc....

Majority of classes now all base their classes on modifications done to the vehicle for the purpose of SQ. It isnt perfect but it does make a fairly level playing field across the board. So youre now competing against "like" installs, so the advantage really becomes around tuning and tweaking, not so much about who has more $$$ to pay a "professional" to do it, like years past.


----------



## brad0069

on the post about the wiring, you do all that for the system, and then you still have the stock wiring thats NOT heat shrunk, techflex'd, soldered, wire-tied every 3", etc. Kinda seems a little off to me, this bad ass wired system and the rest of the cars wiring is stock.


----------



## wdemetrius1

Mic10is said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> Joe Nailed a couple key points.
> rules cant be made to make everyone happy, but the current rules for most organizations are as about as fair as they have ever been.
> 
> the interesting dynamic we now have, that has never been a major factor before, is the internet. Forums like this, provide people with a wealth of knowledge and give many people the basis to attempt things that were typically even 10years ago reserved for "professionals".
> things like up front subwoofers, externally vented kick panels, apillars with multiple speakers etc....
> 
> Majority of classes now all base their classes on modifications done to the vehicle for the purpose of SQ. It isnt perfect but it does make a fairly level playing field across the board. So youre now competing against "like" installs, so the advantage really becomes around tuning and tweaking, not so much about who has more $$$ to pay a "professional" to do it, like years past.



Great point Mic!!! I couldn't agree more. This forum and many other hold a wealth of knowledge.


----------



## UNBROKEN

So telling a new guy that may not even like competing after giving it a shot that he has to techflex every wire, label them, zip tie them, etc JUST to try it out is inviting?
I think not...it's excluding a multitude of people. 

Why not have a straight beginner class ? Just let a guy get judged and scored to try it out then let him decide if he wants to take apart his whole system and build it for a set of class rules. 

As far as a sub ahead of the b-pillars. 
I invite you to find another place in a crew cab truck to fit a W7 without cutting the cab wall out. THEN you're in a whole nother class even higher. 

I plan to be at the event in Houston but there's no way I'm taking apart a system I just spent weeks building just to put some techflex and more zip ties on. 

And tell me this....what exactly does that stuff accomplish anyway?
As mentioned above there are thousands of OEM wires in a car, none of them are techflexed. 
From a functionality and sound quality standpoint it serves absolutely no purpose.


----------



## Mic10is

UNBROKEN said:


> So telling a new guy that may not even like competing after giving it a shot that he has to techflex every wire, label them, zip tie them, etc JUST to try it out is inviting?
> I think not...it's excluding a multitude of people.
> 
> Why not have a straight beginner class ? Just let a guy get judged and scored to try it out then let him decide if he wants to take apart his whole system and build it for a set of class rules.
> 
> As far as a sub ahead of the b-pillars.
> I invite you to find another place in a crew cab truck to fit a W7 without cutting the cab wall out. THEN you're in a whole nother class even higher.
> 
> I plan to be at the event in Houston but there's no way I'm taking apart a system I just spent weeks building just to put some techflex and more zip ties on.
> 
> And tell me this....what exactly does that stuff accomplish anyway?
> As mentioned above there are thousands of OEM wires in a car, none of them are techflexed.
> From a functionality and sound quality standpoint it serves absolutely no purpose.


every organization offers SQ only classes. You donot have to be judged on install. In fact, there are only a handful of people who continue to be judged on install. Majority do SQ only classes.

When I started competing again, I had no plans to ever get judged on install, but I still build all my cars following IASCA and USACi install rules..

If you want to try out competing, it shouldnt matter what class you are in. But the fact is, based on your posts, you want to compete and you want to win, which means you are looking for every possible advantage you can gain but then crying foul when you find out you may have to be in a class with guys who have competed before.
If you just want to try it out, why should it matter what place you finish?


----------



## SouthSyde

UNBROKEN said:


> So telling a new guy that may not even like competing after giving it a shot that he has to techflex every wire, label them, zip tie them, etc JUST to try it out is inviting?
> I think not...it's excluding a multitude of people.
> 
> Why not have a straight beginner class ? Just let a guy get judged and scored to try it out then let him decide if he wants to take apart his whole system and build it for a set of class rules.
> 
> As far as a sub ahead of the b-pillars.
> I invite you to find another place in a crew cab truck to fit a W7 without cutting the cab wall out. THEN you're in a whole nother class even higher.
> 
> I plan to be at the event in Houston but there's no way I'm taking apart a system I just spent weeks building just to put some techflex and more zip ties on.
> 
> And tell me this....what exactly does that stuff accomplish anyway?
> As mentioned above there are thousands of OEM wires in a car, none of them are techflexed.
> From a functionality and sound quality standpoint it serves absolutely no purpose.


Yes, all the techflex and zip ties are for when you want to do sound AND install. There are classes that you are judged solely on the sound. MODQ and SupermodQ. 

This November I will be competing for the first time also, and having a rane rpm88 puts me in supermod 2 seat, where majority of the cars have rebuilt dashes and etc. But o well, Im still gonna give it a try. Competing seems to be so fun and at the end of the day thats all that matters. FUN!


----------



## BowDown

UNBROKEN said:


> Why can't you just get judged on how it sounds and that's it?
> There's a show coming up in Houston I had considered getting my feet wet with.
> I don't qualify for the beginner stuff because my sub is forward of my b-pillars and my STOCK alternator puts out more than they allow at idle.
> 
> Not really feeling like walking in to a higher class and getting torn down right off the bat.
> 
> Face it...there's some dumb ass rules that can and do keep new people out of it.


I love your equipment signature banner. I'm going to steal that idea.


----------



## sqnut

I've never competed cause out here, there are no competitions. I would love to compete though, for two reasons. First and foremost, I think it's the fastest way to build on whatever knowledge one has and hence take the sound to the next level. Next if you're competing and don't have a burning desire to win, there is no point in competing. 

If the objective is to win, I would want to hit the lanes either ahead of other first timers or at least within shouting distance of repeat competitors, depending on the class my install placed me in. The knowledge to give me that edge, i.e. get my sound to a certain level is what is missing on most forums. A fair bit of it is there on this forum, but its in bits and pieces and scattered over many threads.

Fact is, if you told someone how to set things up for good sound quality, you would run contrary to so many forum beliefs that folks would either run you out of town or you'd start ww3 .

The only way you'll get that starting edge is to either get a mentor and spend a few years tweaking and understand things or jump in and learn on the job. You're probably not going to learn it on a forum.


----------



## BowDown

If you've got the ear, this forum has a **** ton of information to help you use it.


----------



## sqnut

BowDown said:


> If you've got the ear, this forum has a **** ton of information to help you use it.


I think the difference between 'a fair bit' and 'a **** ton' is splitting hairs . 

Yes there is a ton of information, but the point is that common forum beliefs would prevent most folks from putting the pieces of the jigsaw together. That and the fact that unless you what you're shooting for (a reference sound) you're going to struggle, even if you have all the information. Plus like you mentioned, till you learn to hear and critically evaluate your sound, you're not going to make much progress.


----------



## BowDown

sqnut said:


> I think the difference between 'a fair bit' and 'a **** ton' is splitting hairs .
> 
> Yes there is a ton of information, but the point is that common forum beliefs would prevent most folks from putting the pieces of the jigsaw together. That and the fact that unless you what you're shooting for (a reference sound) you're going to struggle, even if you have all the information. Plus like you mentioned, till you learn to hear and critically evaluate your sound, you're not going to make much progress.


True. That was the main point. Some people have a natural ear, some need reference material to get started, other's will never get it and need to have a professional do the install/tune.

Information is here... just a matter of finding it, understanding it, and implementing it.


----------



## sqnut

Even with a decent pair of ears, having a ref standard will speed up your journey.


----------



## chefhow

Thats what a good set of head phones are for.


----------



## sqnut

See that's the thing. A lot of people say that cans are a great way to understand staging, imaging tonality etc but I have yet to hear one where the sound was projected from the front. The sound is always at L/R ears. 

Then again I've mostly listened to expensive buds. Never heard the sound from proper high end headphones. I just use my home 2ch as a reference point. Of course dimensions have to be scaled down, but I'm looking for similar detailing, image clarity, focus and balance. Hence impact.


----------



## BowDown

This is true. Headphones will help you with tonality, but wont do squat for staging, and impact.


----------



## Darth SQ

BowDown said:


> This is true. Headphones will help you with tonality, but wont do squat for staging, and impact.


This is what's driving me crazy.
After reading many of these posts, I have concluded that I still have a lot to learn to get my system as close to right the 1st time as I can.
But that doesn't help the other side of me screaming to pull the truck apart this weekend and just get on it.

One question, so if I have a pair of 8" subs in a console enclosure between the front seats of my Suburban that puts me in a class above beginner?
Thanks in advance,
Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## khanhfat

sqnut said:


> See that's the thing. A lot of people say that cans are a great way to understand staging, imaging tonality etc but I have yet to hear one where the sound was projected from the front. The sound is always at L/R ears.
> 
> Then again I've mostly listened to expensive buds. Never heard the sound from proper high end headphones. I just use my home 2ch as a reference point. Of course dimensions have to be scaled down, but I'm looking for similar detailing, image clarity, focus and balance. Hence impact.


I don't know about you guys but I often go to different hi-end home theater store and listen to their stuff to get a reference of what's good and what's not. However, I'm more into vintage audio from the 1970s so I used the speakers and amps I have at home as my reference system. I get to hear a few legendary vintage system to get a better understanding of what's called "standard" in audiophile's ears. So far I've listened to AR-3a , AR-2ax, Altec A7, Altec 604 duplex, a full Altec active 4 way horn system, old school japanese full range Coral speakers, the big blue JBL studio monitor 4300 series ( check this amazing JBL site out ENGLISH /). I think if you have a chance to listen to some of these legendary vintage speakers , they will help you alot in getting a reference point of how to tune and find which drivers and amp that match best for your application . The reason I don't want to use newer speakers system as reference point is first , they're too expensive, and second, the sound from the newer speakers doesn't sound as good as the vintage one, unless you have few hundred to spend on a new hiend tower speakers  . There's a reason a 1970s speakers last until today is because of better sound and they costs less. 

Of course, having a hiend system that means you gotta have some hi-end quality disc to listen to . The recordings in those CDs are better remaster in studio so the sound production is more accurate and pleasing to the ears as well as satisfy critical listeners. If anybody in Houston wants a few reference CDs , give me a PM I'll be glad to share with you what I have.

Sorry a little off topic here guys . I might get into competition for the first time too so far the car needs alot of work to do in sound deadening and install.


----------



## SQ Audi

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> This is what's driving me crazy.
> After reading many of these posts, I have concluded that I still have a lot to learn to get my system as close to right the 1st time as I can.
> But that doesn't help the other side of me screaming to pull the truck apart this weekend and just get on it.
> 
> One question, so if I have a pair of 8" subs in a console enclosure between the front seats of my Suburban that puts me in a class above beginner?
> Thanks in advance,
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Yes sir, that is correct. Having up front bass without processing puts you with an unfair advantage against the others that have them in the hatch, trunk or even in the cargo area. Therefore, these things would put you in SuperMod Q in USAC, MODEX in MECA.

As for IASCA, I have only competed once in a show this season, so I am not completely up with the information there.

--Joe


----------



## Darth SQ

Do you recommend joining a team?
Or is it best to go independent?

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Mic10is

SQ Stang said:


> Yes sir, that is correct. Having up front bass without processing puts you with an unfair advantage against the others that have them in the hatch, trunk or even in the cargo area. Therefore, these things would put you in SuperMod Q in USAC, MODEX in MECA.
> 
> As for IASCA, I have only competed once in a show this season, so I am not completely up with the information there.
> 
> --Joe


HE could compete in Modified in MECA. Modified allows subwoofers to be mounted anywhere except IN the dash. so long as there is no external venting

IASCA classification would be either Amateur or Pro/AM depending on the level of integration and appearance of the subwoofer.


----------



## Mic10is

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Do you recommend joining a team?
> Or is it best to go independent?
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR



If you are serious about competing or at least have a very serious interest. I still give the same advice I was given over a decade ago--go to some shows, check out the cars, talk to other competitors, listen to as many vehicles as possible.

or, just do it. whats the worst thing that can happen? You dont win a plastic trophy at your 1st event?
what you hopefully will get is good feedback on the improvements you need to make to do better at the next show.

and outside of a few exceptions, I have never met a single person who got things "right" the 1st time.

I happened to be one of those exceptions bc I debuted my BMW at IASCA Finals in 2005 and won. but I had also spent 5 years competing with 2 other cars, plus built 5 other cars in that time. had 2 2nd place finishes etc....so I had the experience and knowledge to implement a winning system and everything just went my way that weekend.


Shows now are far less intimidating than they once were. show up. register. Listen and ask questions. and then LISTEN some more.
Key is to LISTEN to what the judges are telling you. LISTEN to other cars. Listen to other competitors.


----------



## SQ Audi

Mic10is said:


> HE could compete in Modified in MECA. Modified allows subwoofers to be mounted anywhere except IN the dash. so long as there is no external venting
> 
> IASCA classification would be either Amateur or Pro/AM depending on the level of integration and appearance of the subwoofer.


My bad, thanks Mic...it was the extended seat rails that puts you in modex. I had to go read my book to make sure. Thanks for setting the record straight.


----------



## eviling

Blown Mustang GT said:


> 12Volt Dave's just did a show in Pottsville, PA about 2 weeks ago, and in MECA, there were 29 SQ cars! Not sure how many were in SPL, or in the IASCA portion of the show. I was pleasantly surprised by how many SQ cars there were, considering I was at a show in Cumming, GA a month prior and there was maybe 10 SQ cars, and a buddy of mine hosted a show in NC with about the same number of SQ cars on the same day as the GA show.


and their were more cars just hanging around  i would of been in meca competing, which is where i compete, but I was having issues with my ride so i just hung out. good show though. not sure if anyone else was just chilling i think i was the only one 

daves show was a larger one. the SQ meets alone can be a bit ont he lower side, i think their were only like 15 cars down in MD a week before daves show, and it was a meca only meet. still not a bad turn out, enough to be worth it i suppose. I enjoy the cmpany my self ^_^ good people. Ive only recently started hitting the shows, i'll be competing next year ...assuming i can get some damn speakers my R2's jsut came and they were broked  so i'm working on that now, and i am starting to suspect that weird noise in my door might be a blown L6...we'll see once i finily get a chance to crack the door panel open :-s


----------



## narvarr

Ok, a little off topic, but can someone clarify this for me please?



> All speakers (except for subwoofer(s)) will be placed in stock locations as originally provided from the manufacturer without making any alterations and will not hinder the vehicle’s operation or visual appearance. Interior panels may not be modified/removed/replaced in any way. Factory speakers may be replaced with aftermarket coax speakers in stock locations. One pair of tweeters 1.5” or smaller in total diameter may be added to the A pillars.


So I can modify (add) a pair of tweeters to the A-pillars that were not there from the OEM and still be within the rules?


----------



## Mic10is

narvarr said:


> Ok, a little off topic, but can someone clarify this for me please?
> 
> 
> 
> So I can modify (add) a pair of tweeters to the A-pillars that were not there from the OEM and still be within the rules?


which rules are you quoting, MECA, USACi,IASCA?

if MECA then you can only surface mount the tweeters to stay in stock class. so you cannot cut or mold anything into any panel.
IASCA follows similarly as well.


----------



## Darth SQ

Mic10is said:


> which rules are you quoting, MECA, USACi,IASCA?
> 
> if MECA then you can only surface mount the tweeters to stay in stock class. so you cannot cut or mold anything into any panel.
> IASCA follows similarly as well.


Looks like I'm screwed in so many ways.
I am going to get spanked in the higher up classes. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Mic10is

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Looks like I'm screwed in so many ways.
> I am going to get spanked in the higher up classes.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


unless you are fixated on doing an install presentation, just compete in SQ only class.
you will be up against similarly built systems. Then it will strictly be which car sounds the best.

there are quite a few people who do everything they can, but just miss the boat on tuning. 
there are veteran competitors who, "just dont get it" and have never made a break through....

focus on tuning. but most importantly--and I cannot stress this enough---LISTEN!!!


----------



## eviling

Mic10is said:


> which rules are you quoting, MECA, USACi,IASCA?
> 
> if MECA then you can only surface mount the tweeters to stay in stock class. so you cannot cut or mold anything into any panel.
> IASCA follows similarly as well.


oh really, i thought you could mold to tweeters but if you had a mid up their you would be pushed into a modafied of street class


----------



## narvarr

Mic10is said:


> which rules are you quoting, MECA, USACi,IASCA?
> 
> if MECA then you can only surface mount the tweeters to stay in stock class. so you cannot cut or mold anything into any panel.
> IASCA follows similarly as well.


These are from USACi's 2011 rules.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


----------



## narvarr

Right now, I'm using Peerless 830985 mids in the factory location but they could use some help above 10k.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


----------



## Cooluser23

UNBROKEN said:


> Why can't you just get judged on how it sounds and that's it?
> 
> I don't qualify for the beginner stuff because my sub is forward of my b-pillars and my STOCK alternator puts out more than they allow at idle.
> 
> Face it...there's some dumb ass rules that can and do keep new people out of it.


So much for ever competing at the beginner level in my Fiero. Since the car is mid-engined, the sub would be under the dash in the front. There really isn't a point installing anything behind the B-pillars.


----------



## Mic10is

cajunner said:


> so, how about if you're using subwoofers up front, but have subwoofers in the back?
> 
> and what about if you're using surface mount enclosures, like the old Pioneer wedges?
> 
> and, if you don't have any speakers in stock locations, does that automatically kick you into a higher bracket?
> 
> and what about full range speakers?
> 
> seems like a few of these rules are going to have to be on a judgement call basis.


what if you ever took 10minutes to go read the damn rules for competition organizations so you can get rid of all your conspiracies and conjecture and maybe contribute something educational to posts regarding competition.
The rules are FREE to download or are available FREE via PDF.


----------



## ErinH

cajunner said:


> considering how other people are confused as I am about how one car gets put in one class and another doesn't, this doesn't seem like a conspiracy or conjecture, more an acknowledgement that some of the time, questions will have to be answered by decision at each event to know what will happen for sure.
> 
> I also find your tone somewhat hostile and intentionally disruptive to the flow of this thread.
> 
> In the spirit of competition and team effort, I will overlook this temporary moment of emotional display for the longer term outlook. I appreciate all your posts on competition and defer to your many wins and accomplishments as proof that we all have a lot to learn from your input here, and wish you would continue to post good, usable content.


Mecacaraudio.com

If one has specific questions he feels is not addressed explicitly in the rule book, a simple email will take care of it. The proper contacts can be found on the link above.


----------



## ErinH

cajunner said:


> Odd, that questions about competition in a thread titled "State of SQ competition today?" would be handled with a broom stick instead of a screw driver.
> 
> point taken, I'll leave the competition part of the hobby to the experts, where answers are given by discrimination and summary judging of the questioner.


Wtf?


You had questions. I gave you a way to answer them absolutely if no one here can. 
A person here just asked last week about class placement. He was advised who to send an email to to clear up any doubt and he got an answer quickly. 

I was pointing you in the direction to find the answer since you asked. If you wanted to help the forum, you could post the answers after you found them. 
Or, were your questions only rhetorical just to kick up dust? 

You spit a lot of garbage at people for no reason at all sometimes, man.


----------



## sqnut

cajunner said:


> so, how about if you're using subwoofers up front, but have subwoofers in the back?
> 
> and what about if you're using surface mount enclosures, like the old Pioneer wedges?
> 
> and, if you don't have any speakers in stock locations, does that automatically kick you into a higher bracket?
> 
> and what about full range speakers?
> 
> seems like a few of these rules are going to have to be on a judgement call basis.


Dude, face it. You just like being a contrarian .


----------



## chefhow

sqnut said:


> Dude, face it. You just like being a contrarian .


You're far kinder than I wanted to be but that sums it up perfectly, thanks!


----------



## BowDown

cajunner said:


> hmmm.
> 
> I'd have to agree about 18% with this.
> 
> The rest of my inquiry-making process, is contrived to precipitate other ends.
> 
> Like discussion of competition differences between organizations. Some of the people here compete in more than one organization, and are uniquely qualified to offer constructive commentary that illuminates the small minutiae of each organization's details.
> 
> But mostly, I find the repeated insistence that I am supposed to answer my own questions by sending emails to MECA or it's institutional head, a direct response to my throwing the whole lot of them under the bus several months back. I let that kind of thing go on, and yes, I participate in instances where there is opportunity for the various competing members here to slam me for it, because I feel like a lot of them subconsciously need to vent and can't on account of their involvement/affiliations.
> 
> It's an undercurrent of hostility that runs pretty deep here, which means I exposed an area of soreness which is taking a long time to heal based on the repeated attacks on my character and pointed attempts towards devaluing my contributions or outright inability to answer direct questions relating to the thread topical matter.
> 
> Alas, message board theatrics are part and parcel of the site's unique "draw" and I'm guilty of putting on the black hat occasionally.


Internet is full of win, and loss. While we are all guilty of ranting online with no basis, it's truly not a good medium for communication. Too much reading into ****, or using personal bias to conclude **** that's not there. Pretty much useless at times.. but does hold entertainment value.


----------



## BowDown

cajunner said:


> off topic:
> 
> what do those MR amps look like under the skirt?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/632889-post5.html

There's a shot of the MR675h. I'll look through my pics.. I had snapped a couple of the MR2150.


----------



## BowDown

cajunner said:


> off topic:
> 
> what do those MR amps look like under the skirt?


MR2150:


----------



## BowDown

This is true. I always found built-in crossovers useless. Subsonic filters sure.. but otherwise always had them set to OFF.


----------



## BowDown

cajunner said:


> I wonder what happened to clbolt, his sig makes me think he's possibly out of the realm.


Possibly. Last post was 2-19-10.


----------



## chefhow

cajunner said:


> off topic:
> 
> what do those MR amps look like under the skirt? I see the Force and RPM models on ampguts and they look really clean, I was wondering how much nicer the Mobile Reference series might be?
> 
> / off topic.
> 
> 
> *yes, I get a lot of feathers ruffling but it might be wise to consider that it's all plumage at some point.*


Thats called trolling, the thing you like to leave negative rep points for...


----------



## BowDown




----------



## narvarr

narvarr said:


> These are from USACi's 2011 rules.
> 
> Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


Ok, just an update, I emailed USACi this morning about this and got a fairly quick reply. Tweets can be added by cutting and mounting but no remolding of the pillars.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


----------



## chefhow

cajunner said:


> um, you first?
> 
> *Yeah, you told a guy that the way he was memorializing his dead Mother was "trivial" and "not what most would consider an act of respect towards that loved one" I wasnt trolling, I was just telling you that your actions and words were rude and un-necessary to somebody who was greiving.*
> 
> obviously, the concept of retaliatory negative reputation escaped your attention until after making use of the rep system to work in a negative fashion against another member.
> 
> *So its ok to act like a child and retaliate? No problem, I guess its my turn then. *.
> 
> 
> that's not really my fault, chefhow.
> 
> and I didn't say I was trolling, nor would I define what I did in the MECA judging thread to be trolling behavior.
> 
> 
> *Whose talking about a MECA thread? I am talking about the here and now, this thread is about the "State of SQ competition today", something that you arent involved in, have no desire to be a part of as you said in the past and dont know a whole lot about except from what you have read. Why comment on something you dont know about if only to troll and cause trouble?. There are members here that are interested in competing, have legit questions that get asked and are answered. The rules as you have been told countless times are on the web and free to read. The head of the rules commitee isnt Steve Stern and he isnt who you ask. There is a group of people who take care of those things, they arent arbitrary and taken on a case by case basis but use the rules that are clearly written in the MECA rule book and define them to people who dont fully grasp the concept of cutting a whole vs surface mount.*
> 
> I had a legitimate point that was raised well before I entered the thread by SEVERAL of the posters that were either intimately involved or on the periphery, so if I was trolling it was after many others passed through and collected a toll at that particular bridge.
> 
> *Again the past is history and cant be changed. If you want to dwell on something that happened 10 months ago and keep rubbing the sand in your vagina go right ahead but we have moved past it. In fact most of the people who were affected have actually gone back and competed in MECA this year. *
> 
> I rarely troll, and when I do it's usually with a reason. Like when ID got the Klippel, and I questioned the issues of a business defining the use of the device.
> 
> *But you do troll and that in itself is against the forums rules*.
> 
> Or, when bikinpunk's Klippel graphs had difficulties with their defining the performance of JL's product, that was more to an end than just to get a rise out of people for sickness' sake.
> 
> *And when he decided to bow out rather than say "hey send me the Klippel and let me take a stab at it I'm a smart guy" you go on about some other BS and conspiracies. All I did was offer up the thought that you should take over as somebody who was so caught up in it and tried over and over to tell Erin how to do it. Just do it then and show everyone how great you are rather than throwing out theories of how you think things should work, or might work, or could work. DO THE ****ING WORK FOR YOURSELF AND REPORT YOUR FINDINGS BACK TO US FOR A CHANGE!!!*
> 
> Let's just tango on, shall we?


I'm sure youre going to comment as getting the last word is part of your persona and thats fine. I've said my peace and am done. Tango on as you say...


----------



## sqnut

BowDown said:


>


You little piggy . Agent provocateur


----------



## sqnut

Ok, this thread has gotten way off topic. 

Caj, sq is about how it sounds not how it measures. If you can't understand / accept that then sq is not for you. We're not forcing it down your throat, so if you don't agree with whats being said and don't like the way you're being treated, just move on. Ever seen a spiders web? notice how every ring is linked. How you're treated today has a lot to do with how you come across today as well as how you were at the ring furthest away. 

One of the first lessons you learn in sq is that with sound everything is connected. So patterns are picked up much easier. Granted you do better in threads that deal with how it measures.


----------



## SQ Audi

cajunner said:


> so, how about if you're using subwoofers up front, but have subwoofers in the back?
> You still have subwoofers up front, you are still going to be in a more advanced class.
> 
> and what about if you're using surface mount enclosures, like the old Pioneer wedges?
> If you are still using these, then you are good to go. unless they are subwoofers and they are forward the b-pillars, then you would have to compete in a higher class
> 
> and, if you don't have any speakers in stock locations, does that automatically kick you into a higher bracket?
> yes it would. you cannot call your car a stock car if you have speakers placed in locations other than STOCK locations...ergo, higher class.
> 
> and what about full range speakers?
> Full range speakers are fine. Just so as not to confuse others, what are you getting at with the full range speakers?
> 
> seems like a few of these rules are going to have to be on a judgement call basis.
> 
> The rules are not subjective. There are no judgement calls when pertaining to the rules. If you encounter a Head Judge that is will ing to bend the rules to help out a competitor, then IMHO, that judge should be released from his position.


See the answers in Red.


----------



## sqnut

cajunner said:


> stop drinking the Kool-Aid if it tastes funny?
> 
> 
> gee, maybe you didn't even need to type all that up.
> 
> 
> sound quality is not your crop of ants, no matter how you pretend you have any more bearing in it's definition or substance by simply proclaiming so...
> 
> "I am Sound Quality guru, hear ye all!"


I've been on this forum long enough to be able separate the chaff from the wheat. If what you posted above, came from the 'wheat' yes I'd be crushed a bit. But from the chaff? Trust me I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 

I never claimed to be a guru. Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a student not a guru. When you start off in this hobby, the mind focuses in on what's right. So you have many moments where you feel, 'I've arrived'. Only to discover that you haven't and aren't anywhere close to it. You make real progress when you start focusing in on what's wrong. Oh and yes you have to forget about the numbers, well mostly.


----------



## trojan fan

cajunner said:


> obviously, the ability for wheat/chaff separation protocols, exists in a separate plane for your viewing/posting pleasures.
> 
> You made the distinction first, that I was to "move on" and "sound quality is not for you" without any basis for such a provocative summation.
> 
> I say summation, because you attempted to derail my input into the discussion by calling me a "contrarian" and that's subjective, not objective in content.
> 
> Only when it's your opinion/point of view does it count?
> 
> 
> sure seems like that's how you're putting it out there.


Not to sound rude , but are you ever wrong about anything?

Your credibility is starting to take a hit, which I think is a product of your pompous attitude


----------



## trojan fan

sqnut said:


> Ok, this thread has gotten way off topic.
> 
> Caj, sq is about how it sounds not how it measures. If you can't understand / accept that then sq is not for you. We're not forcing it down your throat, so if you don't agree with whats being said and don't like the way you're being treated, just move on. Ever seen a spiders web? notice how every ring is linked. How you're treated today has a lot to do with how you come across today as well as how you were at the ring furthest away.
> 
> One of the first lessons you learn in sq is that with sound everything is connected. So patterns are picked up much easier. Granted you do better in threads that deal with how it measures.



Well put.....That guy is always way over the top


----------



## trojan fan

bikinpunk said:


> Wtf?
> 
> You spit a lot of garbage at people for no reason at all sometimes, man.



Sounds like a understatement:laugh:


----------



## trojan fan

cajunner said:


> every damn day of my miserable life...


I feel sorry for people that have to deal with you:devil:


----------



## trojan fan

cajunner said:


> no amount of damage control can stem the flow of truth.
> 
> good luck with that course of action, trojan ham.



What exactly is the truth?


----------



## ErinH

cajunner said:


> that you are an instigator and precipitate useless misdirection as a means of pretense.
> 
> 
> run along little doggy, the porch is full.



Ummmmm....
Kettle, I'd like to introduce you to pot.


----------



## Darth SQ

cajunner said:


> Ummmmm....
> 
> 
> that's a mighty big stick you're swingin', Erin.
> 
> can I touch it?


I was thoroughly interested and in what the members that actually compete (sqtang, mc10is, and others) have to say regarding sq competition and how to avoid mistakes during my build.
Then you jumped in and almost singlehandedly derailed the entire thread.

AND YOU DON'T EVEN COMPETE!!!!

For those of you trying to help us with our questions in this thread, I thank you and please continue; we are listening.

CAJUNNER, someday's I really like and get what you're saying, but today, you remind me of the douchebag that sits in the corner of a Starbucks writing poetry on his laptop just because he thinks it's cool.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## schmiddr2

cajunner, stop the derailing and negative attitude.


----------



## schmiddr2

cajunner said:


> thank you for making me aware of it, schmiddr2.


You're not stupid; you've known all along what you were doing, but you don't seem to care about this threads purpose or you just can't stop yourself from running off at the mouth. Don't respond, just stop. PM me if you have to or make an OT thread about whatever it is that concerns you but keep the crap out of the discussion threads.


----------



## Blown Mustang GT

...and now back to our regulary scheduled program


----------



## ErinH

cajunner said:


> that's a mighty big stick you're swingin', Erin.


That's what she said.


----------



## UNFORGIVEN

Here in the Bay Area you're lucky to find any kind of competition going on within a 2-3 hour drive... I wish i could hear some real SQ setups


----------



## chefhow

Contact SimplicityinSound(Bing) or Boostedrex(Zach) about Nor Cal shows


----------



## KP

Originally Posted by cajunner 
so, how about if you're using subwoofers up front, but have subwoofers in the back?
You still have subwoofers up front, you are still going to be in a more advanced class. 

and what about if you're using surface mount enclosures, like the old Pioneer wedges? 
If you are still using these, then you are good to go. unless they are subwoofers and they are forward the b-pillars, then you would have to compete in a higher class

and, if you don't have any speakers in stock locations, does that automatically kick you into a higher bracket?
yes it would. you cannot call your car a stock car if you have speakers placed in locations other than STOCK locations...ergo, higher class.

and what about full range speakers?
Full range speakers are fine. Just so as not to confuse others, what are you getting at with the full range speakers?

seems like a few of these rules are going to have to be on a judgement call basis.

The rules are not subjective. There are no judgement calls when pertaining to the rules. If you encounter a Head Judge that is will ing to bend the rules to help out a competitor, then IMHO, that judge should be released from his position. 

See the answers in Red. 


Why is going from one class to another considered moving up or down, more or less advanced? Vehicles with like mods or lack of are grouped together in a class. Its very simple. There is no up/advanced or down/less advanced. The scoring in the past has proved this in MECA, many times over.
Every class has its own challenges.


----------



## chefhow

Actually those arent the MECA classes they are as follows
Stock
Street
Street Modified
Modified
ModEx
Extreme
Master

Last year at finals the top scoring car came out of Master, #2 was in Street.

Again, please feel free to reference the rule book on the home page of the MECA website. It will break it all down for you so it's easy to understand and leaves very little for interpretation.


----------



## Mic10is

cajunner said:


> probably has something to do with the actual names of the classes:
> 
> novice
> 
> rookie
> 
> advanced
> 
> modified
> 
> extreme
> 
> 
> 
> who wants to be called a beginner, when they have a highly optimized, carefully selected few components in the build, and use highly advanced passive circuits to equalize their sound yet no equalizer, no DSP, no kickpanels cut out of the car, etc.?
> 
> and does that guy, a true ringer, want to be in the beginner brackets for some nefarious purpose, such as always winning using the most minimalist design criteria?
> 
> I guess it takes all kinds, and I haven't gone and read up on the various classes and what puts you into each, so this is all off the cuff or just for the sake of explaining my own ideas about competition.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's fun no matter where you end up being placed, and if you intended on being put there or not. I feel like it would be more fun to me if the potential for an upset existed, but the way they have the different classes set up it looks like most of the things that people could use in their favor are just legislated higher up in the chain.



please just stop posting in any thread that has to do with competition. You are completely and utterly clueless.
Worse yet, you cant even take time to read a damn rule book for any organization yet you continue to try and make a mockery of competition organizations.
Move along Troll


----------



## ramos

Guess I'm the odd man out. I never really cared what class my car ends up in. I just build it the way I want it. For an old fart like me, competing isn't about winning a plastic trophy. It's more about getting to meet people with like interests and finding other old farts ( Tom Shaw LOL) to hang out with at shows and have fun.....and to sit back and watch the SPL guys bicker with each other lol


----------



## imjustjason

cajunner said:


> ...words...


Did these posts not sink in?



schmiddr2 said:


> cajunner, stop the derailing and negative attitude.





schmiddr2 said:


> You're not stupid; you've known all along what you were doing, but you don't seem to care about this threads purpose or you just can't stop yourself from running off at the mouth. Don't respond, just stop. PM me if you have to or make an OT thread about whatever it is that concerns you but keep the crap out of the discussion threads.


This was the original post. 



Buff said:


> So I have been away from Car Audio for a while, but I am curious to the state of car audio competition today.
> 
> Anyone still competing in the US - IASCA or otherwise?
> 
> Hope all my old car audio friends on here are doing well!


He wasn't asking if you like or dislike competition or the competitors. Move along if you have nothing to add of any value.


----------



## simplicityinsound

Cajun man, you sure hate on SQ comps for having a competition system your self 


yes, you have a competition system in your car....if you have any kind of stereo system in your car, hell, even stock, you can compete with it and have fun.

for 95 percent of my customers, they were not, is not, and never will be dedicated SQ competitors like Mic and Kirk...infact, virtually none of them knew about such a thing when they came to me, and some expressed interest in competing, and some after the install is long done, i talk then into coming out.

in other words, in my opinion, aside from the selected few, most of us with systems should come out and compete with our cars just for the good times, the opportunity to listen to many other nice sounding cars all at once (a VERY rare opportunity if you think about it), and get feedback on your own system.

and i say this to virtually everyone i talk to, unless your goal is to win the world championship, there is no distinction between a comp sq system and a non comp sq system, you can go with any car and just enjoy the experience


----------



## SQ Audi

UNFORGIVEN said:


> Here in the Bay Area you're lucky to find any kind of competition going on within a 2-3 hour drive... I wish i could hear some real SQ setups


Check out Modesto California...I think that is close to you. Vince Miranda has one of the nicest sounding vehicles I have ever listened to. And this is when he was running Dynaudio.

I think he is now running Arc/Hybrid, but he would be a good person to check out his cars that he builds. Also, there are plenty of MECA events up that way.

I don't know California all that well, but I think that Vince's shop is there near the Bay area...maybe.

Also, if you can get a listen to Fred Lynch's Saturn (Daily driver) then listen to his Passat, you will see what can be done from mild to wild.


----------



## Darth SQ

SQ Stang said:


> Check out Modesto California...I think that is close to you. Vince Miranda has one of the nicest sounding vehicles I have ever listened to. And this is when he was running Dynaudio.
> 
> I think he is now running Arc/Hybrid, but he would be a good person to check out his cars that he builds. Also, there are plenty of MECA events up that way.
> 
> I don't know California all that well, but I think that Vince's shop is there near the Bay area...maybe.
> 
> Also, if you can get a listen to Fred Lynch's Saturn (Daily driver) then listen to his Passat, you will see what can be done from mild to wild.


Modesto is fairly inland (East) of the bay area but definitely accessible to and from in a day.
Definitely do-able.

I would love to meet all these people.
They would know where all the shows are and can help us in a way that can only be done by listening to our vehicles and then making suggestions.
For example, I know what I am building, but have no understanding of how to properly tune it all.
However, once I see it done once, and hear how it should properly sound after it's done, I've then got it down, and will know what to do and listen for in the future.
IMHO, you can read all the posts ever uploaded on this fine website, but until you hear proper tuning, and see how it's done, you'll always wonder if you got it right doing it yourself.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Cooluser23

Where could I listen to a car with a good stereo system. (SQ) I'm starting to wonder if I want to venture down the path of a good SQ setup.

I live on the Central Coast of California (San Luis Obispo area), but I travel frequently into the Bay area, mostly Silicon Valley and East Bay (Fremont, CA)

I would love to listen to how great of a sound quality can be achieved in a small vehicle (2 seater), but for starters, any car is fine. I have a friend who wants to talk me out of installing a nice system into a car "because I won't hear the difference in a moving vehicle anyhow". I wouldn't mind proving him (and myself) wrong by example.

Any ideas?


----------



## Darth SQ

Cooluser23 said:


> Where could I listen to a car with a good stereo system. (SQ) I'm starting to wonder if I want to venture down the path of a good SQ setup.
> 
> I live on the Central Coast of California (San Luis Obispo area), but I travel frequently into the Bay area, mostly Silicon Valley and East Bay (Fremont, CA)
> 
> I would love to listen to how great of a sound quality can be achieved in a small vehicle (2 seater), but for starters, any car is fine. I have a friend who wants to talk me out of installing a nice system into a car "because I won't hear the difference in a moving vehicle anyhow". I wouldn't mind proving him (and myself) wrong by example.
> 
> Any ideas?


Yes, he is sooo wrong.
Done right, it can make a traffic jam a welcomed opportunity to finish the cd.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## narvarr

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Modesto is fairly inland (East) of the bay area but definitely accessible to and from in a day.
> Definitely do-able.
> 
> I would love to meet all these people.
> They would know where all the shows are and can help us in a way that can only be done by listening to our vehicles and then making suggestions.
> For example, I know what I am building, but have no understanding of how to properly tune it all.
> However, once I see it done once, and hear how it should properly sound after it's done, I've then got it down, and will know what to do and listen for in the future.
> IMHO, you can read all the posts ever uploaded on this fine website, but until you hear proper tuning, and see how it's done, you'll always wonder if you got it right doing it yourself.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


This is SO true. My first experience with a true SQ system was at the USAC triple point regionals in Jackson, MS back in '97. A gentleman running an all Sony mobile ES system invited me to listen to his car. I got out with a new found respect for SQ built rides and a new obsession.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


----------



## Cooluser23

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Yes, he is sooo wrong.
> Done right, it can make a traffic jam a welcomed opportunity to finish the cd.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


I'm listening. :surprised: Anything to make commute traffic less of a hassle.


----------



## simplicityinsound

if you pass by san jose, you are welcome to listen to my little car


----------



## SouthSyde

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Yes, he is sooo wrong.
> Done right, it can make a traffic jam a welcomed opportunity to finish the cd.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


X2.. hehe I soo feel what you are saying. From a guy that gets stuck in traffic for 2 hrs a day... It makes long cummutes and traffic jams a pleasureable experience, and to me thats priceless!


----------



## SQ Audi

Cooluser23 said:


> Where could I listen to a car with a good stereo system. (SQ) I'm starting to wonder if I want to venture down the path of a good SQ setup.
> 
> I live on the Central Coast of California (San Luis Obispo area), but I travel frequently into the Bay area, mostly Silicon Valley and East Bay (Fremont, CA)
> 
> I would love to listen to how great of a sound quality can be achieved in a small vehicle (2 seater), but for starters, any car is fine. I have a friend who wants to talk me out of installing a nice system into a car "because I won't hear the difference in a moving vehicle anyhow". I wouldn't mind proving him (and myself) wrong by example.
> 
> Any ideas?


Jayhawkblk lives in Palm Springs, I believe he still has his system in his car. You might pm him and see if you can listen to his car. I am not sure of anyone else in that area that I know personally.


----------

