# another bmw e46 build



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

having just completed the audio build in my wife's car, it's time to get started on mine...basically a duplicate of her car.

wife's car build, in case you forgot: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/87806-simple-e46-build.html

this time i'm going to use the brand new, just released drivers from hybrid audio technologies, the legatia l6 special edition and legatia pro 1 ring radiator tweeter.



















with the legatia 6se driver being larger than the clarus woofer i used in my wife's car, and with as close a fit as that was, i've had concerns about the legatia 6se fitting under the oem door card.

played around with it this weekend, trying to get an idea of how i want to go about placement. the back side of the door pocket prevents a flush mounting of the speakers behind the factory grills, but i *think* that given the correct angle for clearance, it could possibly be done.



















and here they are up next to the 6.5" clarus woofer i installed in my wife's car. the legatia driver is 7.1".



















could it be done? maybe.

however, i decided to explore other options. the most promising location at this point i think is going to be the kick panel location. there's a crush zone down there which should have an open airspace cavity under the fender. the only "problem" is that there is a channel on the inner metal layer for the oem wiring harness. i removed everything from both sides of the car down there and it is basically identical on both sides. i need to find a flexible optical eye tool to explore this area - need to verify that the channel on the inner skin doesn't go deep enough to touch the outer metal. if it doesn't - if there's any gap at all - that means i can cut a hole for the magnet to recess into, and then build a baffle that matches the inner metal area to mount the legatias to. in this way they would be nearly flush mounted in this area, aimed across the car at each other.

this would actually provide more ideal path lengths to the driver's position, giving less need for electronic manipulation of the sound. it should also produce a deeper soundstage than the oem door location, as they are further forward in the cabin. i'm thinking the stage should extend beyond the windshield with them placed here.

this is the bare kick panel, showing the channel for the wiring harness that i'll have to deal with:










showing the space is there for the woofer:










and finally, mocking up how they might fire across the cabin:










in case you are curious about the rest, i intend to use a dedicated zapco dc reference dc500.1 on each mid, a dc350.2 on the tweeters, and a dc750.2 on the sub. at this point i'm teetering between a couple of different sub options.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Good luck with the build! I am super excited to see those bad boys installed. What kind of processing will you be using?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

thanks! me too!

all processing will be handled by the zapco dsp processing built into the amps. 

just swung by a friend's install shop for a quick peek with his sweet optical eye tool. 










i now have about a 70% confidence that this is doable. have to cut it out to get the rest of the confidence.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

That's a GREAT location for the drivers, benny Z.
You get the "Doitor's approval".

J.


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## vidizzle (May 30, 2008)

if you did some modifications to the door panel itself on the inside wouldnt you have gotten it to fit?

just be glad you got a sedan the e46 coupes are a nightmare when it comes to the doors..

GL with the build im very interested to see what your doing with the kicks!


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

This looks interesting. I'm subscribing for more updates.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

doitor - thanks...means a lot coming from you. 

vidizzle - there's really not much material to trim away from that part of the door card. basically, where the woofer's frame is hitting is the back side of the door pocket. it's plastic and pretty thin - don't think you could shave much from it without cutting into the door pocket. i do think, though (hopefully) won't be confirming, that one could squeeze them under there...with some serious skill and patience. honestly i don't plan to do any more fitting work under the door panel UNLESS the kick location idea doesn't pan out.

notloudenuf - not sure when the next updates will come. i had planned to do some more work with the kicks this saturday, but just found out i'm working.  maybe i'll be able to find some time to start cutting some evening this week, but at this point things are looking pretty busy. i don't have an air saw at the house and need to work within a friend's schedule, too, as he is gracious enough to let me use his professional install bay/tools for the hard part of the work.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

nothing new to see, but i thought i'd give a quick update.

after much internal debate, i finally landed on committing to an IB sub install in this car. last week i ordered up an Fi ib3 15" 4 ohm sub, but yesterday changed my mind and decided to "up" it to the 18".

so now i've got an Fi ib3 18" on its way to me.

problem is, i measured AFTER i decided to up-size it. whoops! i'll make it work, but it's not going to be as simple as i had envisioned.

the OD of the 18" is 18.5".


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

that'll be tough but car audio is never easy... especially with huge components to the system. i like your placement idea for the speakers. 

my buddy and i installed the woofer to his JL Audio C5 in the same location of his e36 coupe.. different i know but they work great


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

I like where this is going. I had a similar predicament with the w15GTi in the E32, , the solution was to move the sub so that the basket ducked down into a cavity under the floor. 

One other avenue is to angle the baffle to get more clearance.


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## stangman67 (Apr 8, 2009)

That should sound wonderful!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

played with amp placement mockup this afternoon. i think this is how they'll probably end up. all four fit into the spare tire well this way!


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

BMW + HAT speakers + Zapco amps (4) = me super envious.


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## timmay77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Subscribed. Love BMW builds for obvious reasons......


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

visited a friend's shop this morning and made some headway on the pass side kick. expiratory cutting reveals that what i had hoped could happen, will indeed happen. super excited at what we found...lots of airspace venting through the frame rail and upper fender area.

had to cut through about 4 layers of metal, but finally found the cavity and exposed enough space to mount the l6se.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice work!!! I like .


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Lookin good... what was your thoughts on the Clarus speakers?


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

yeah... that needed a re-post!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

haha - thanks sydmonster!

i'll agree - worth the repost.

i'm honestly not sure this has ever been done before. i've seen people *talk* about using the e46 kicks, have seen people theorize about the possibility, have seen many people say it CAN'T be done... but have never actually seen it explored. i've seen people install kick pods and the like in these cars (bing did some recently), but i've never seen the actual kick panel/crush zone cut and installed into.

now we know - it CAN be done!!!

...and, honestly, i'm pretty sure i could squeeze an L8 into there!


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

You now have the responsibility of documenting this process with extreme detail. so please take lots of pictures and post them.

You sir have grandes huevos, good work.


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## FLAstrongman (Sep 22, 2010)

looking good


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

just picked up a sheet of 1/2" baltic birch for the woofer baffles. $41 for the 5x5 sheet.


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

benny z said:


> just picked up a sheet of 1/2" baltic birch for the woofer baffles. $41 for the 5x5 sheet.


You need the 60/40 folding rear seat option.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yesterday i finished up the rear deck lid. think this is pretty much all the matting that will be done back here, except for the metal wall w/ the ski pass which will probably get a layer of matting + a layer of closed cell foam between it and the sub baffle that mates up to it.










from the top side, only the holes were covered. this will likely get a layer of closed cell foam over top of the whole deck.










finally, i made a cardboard template of the baffle i intend to cut for the mid driver. this baffle will actually be 3 layers of 1/2" baltic birch thick, making it a 1.5" baffle total. first two layers will be laminated together and attached to the car's metal, then the third layer will be attached to them w/ a high-shore, high-loss sealant. the woofer's mounting screws will only penetrate the first layer, which decouples the actual mounting baffle from the car.


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

benny z said:


> having just completed the audio build in my wife's car, it's time to get started on mine...basically a duplicate of her car.


Sooo, I'm guessing you wont be making a duplicate after all.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

haha - sorry, what i meant was that my car is basically a duplicate of my wife's car.

her's is an '04 330xi - mine is an '05 325xi.

totally different stereo installs.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

buwahahahaha lol omg wtf lmao wut?!?!?!


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

^ you must be really small or that sub must be really big!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

"small" is not something i'm used to being called... lol


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

So you went with the 18", right?

J.


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

jorgegarcia said:


> You sir have grandes huevos, good work.


I know I said it before, but I was for something totally different.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

doitor said:


> So you went with the 18", right?
> 
> J.


yes. I blame scotty b!


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

benny z said:


> yes. I blame scotty b!


I get you.
I also have soooooooooo much to blame (and thank) him for.

J.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

baffle build is in progress. 1/2" baltic birch x2, laminated together w/ wood glue.

this will become the first layer of the baffle.



















exciting update, i know...i know...i know...


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## Bryson (Jan 27, 2010)

you're creating a monster with that woofer! Are you going to be adding a skipass rear seat for the sub to fire through? Or is the skipass/armrest already there?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

ski pass/arm rest is already there... ready to roll! 

finishing up the pass side legatia baffle this morning.

layer one is the two laminated 1/2" birch pieces i glued and posted last night. now w/ the speaker hole cut and attached to the car...










to this i am adhering the second layer of the baffle, another 1/2" birch baffle. this one will be decoupled from the first layer via a sealant adhering method. the speaker will be screwed to this baffle with screws that only penetrate this baffle.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

Are those 4 screws on the top plate only temporary?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

the 4 screws are counter-sunk into the first layer. those are what attach the baffle to the car. the second (outer) baffle is only attached via the sealant. you might be seeing the markings i made for the speaker mounting holes...but those are not screws.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

You need a router and circle jig.

J.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yeah, i know... 

i actually bought a circle guide for my jig saw, but when i got home i realized it doesn't go small enough for what i needed.

so no nice circles for me!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

check out this perspective. the mid mount is at least as wide as the pillar. stage width should be impressive!


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

What is that sealant? And what do you expect it to do?

Curious, as I've never seen that approach before!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

idea is that it will be a decoupling isolation layer between the baffles. buddy of mine did this in his recent install and recommended i try it.

today i applied dampening over the entire finished baffle. over top of that went a layer of overkill pro. these help further decouple the driver.




























very happy with how this has gone - now when time permits i can begin on the driver's side.


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

yeah! more!


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## Texas Made (Jul 20, 2010)

well it sure is solid.


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## lucipha (Aug 5, 2009)

I like the progress of this so far, and I hope you are going to be running new wire to that speaker.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yes, when i install the amps i will run new speaker wire.

finished this up and got out the "real" camera.










carpet and glovebox back in place.










...and for those of you concerned about leg/foot room. no problem!


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## pandaboy50 (Sep 11, 2010)

looks really nice so far I'm subscribing!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

You deadened the outside of it but did you put any deadening on the inside as well? Lot's of metal in there.


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

super clean build 

You are going to love those speakers trust me they are really great sounding comps


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

scooter99 said:


> You deadened the outside of it but did you put any deadening on the inside as well? Lot's of metal in there.


some. not much. the metal in there is really thick. didn't really resonate when i flicked it. i put a few small pieces on a few choice spots, but that's about it.

when i pull the speaker out to run new speaker wire, i'll re-evaluate the situation. for sure i will be stuffing the area with poly... for now i just wanted to get it hooked up to factory power to start the break-in process. and honestly this one really stomps and sounds quite good as is!


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

Saw over there... and now posting over here. I really like the direction this is taking.


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

Yep saw over there as well looking good  i would recommend "opening" the back of the baffles though


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

thanks - i'm going to talk to scott about the chamfer idea to see if it makes sense. i know what you mean and understand it's necessity on the smaller drivers (L3 especially), but the basket on the L6 is much more open and i'm not so sure chamfering is as crucial.

no new progress over the weekend, but i've been thinking about tweeter placement. based on this picture, anyone care to share their thoughts on where tweeter placement might work best?

at this point i intend to run the L6SE out to 5khz w/ the tweeters taking over from there. initial thinking was to place them in the oem sail panel tweeter location, but looking at the perspective of this picture reveals that the sail location is quite a bit further forward (towards the listening position) than the mid. it's easily a foot closer on the lateral plane. however, that location is the *widest* potential position. another possible location would be at the base of the pillars, which puts them further forward, but not as wide. finally, the last option would be to place them in the kicks w/ the mids. i have stage height concerns w/ that option, though...and if i were to do that, i'd likely place another pair of helper "super" tweeters up in the sails or pillars to help raise the stage.

any thoughts?










i may create another thread in the main forum to pose the question, too...


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

Here are a couple of interesting threads on tweeter placement you should check out.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-using-one-tweeter.html?highlight=haas+effect

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ace-final-frontier.html?highlight=haas+effect


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## SteveH! (Nov 7, 2005)

Ihope you will post pics of the opened drivers side kicks.i am curious to see if there is any room there. i think the reinforcement is different.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

oh man - THAT would really throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing, huh?!?! lol

i will post pics - no doubt.

from what i have seen of the metal behind the carpet, they look identical from side-to-side. i really hope i'm not proven wrong...!


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## pwnt by pat (Mar 13, 2006)

Do you know why you had to cut through four layers of metal? It's because that's a structural zone on the car designed to crumple in the event of a front end collision. Cutting that wasn't a smart move.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

thanks for the concern. i had that concern as well and hesitated for a couple of weeks while i mulled it over with myself, friends, fellow bmw enthusiasts, a couple of pro installers, and a bmw master technician. in the end i obviously went forward with the project - and i'm happy about it. watching carefully what was cut, i'm confident that none of it compromises structural integrity. i kept the metal we cut out - will put up a picture of the pieces if i remember later.


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

pwnt by pat said:


> Do you know why you had to cut through four layers of metal? It's because that's a structural zone on the car designed to crumple in the event of a front end collision. Cutting that wasn't a smart move.


Yeah, now your speakers are in a crumple zone and they might get damaged in a collision! Putting them there was so irresponsible of you.

Actually, what that really cost you was resale value. If you ever sell the car you'll have to disclose those 6" holes in the chassis. I'm all for custom audio, but part of the reason I didn't buy a BMW was lack of room for speakers.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

my installer friend toby was kind enough to take time this morning to cut out the hole necessary for the mid woofer mounting in the driver's side.










rar!










the result...










and now i've been busy making the baffles. waiting for glue to dry.


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## SteveH! (Nov 7, 2005)

benny, that is going to be a great sounding setup


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## bimmerman11 (Aug 27, 2009)

I never get tired of seeing E46 builds.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

here's a tad more progress.

baffle 1 mounted. 4 self-drilling screws counter-sunk.










baffle 2 attached w/ silicone and clamped to set.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

...and we're up and running! temporary, but running.










this pic shows how much foot room i still have w/ my size 13 skis.


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

And now for the grills?

Speaker vs. foot = foot wins.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yeah, it will probably be a while before the custom panels/grills will be made. i should put something up temporarily to protect them.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

anyone have temporary protection ideas? i've driven the car 3 times now since installing this last night and i cringe every time i shift. :/


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

Cheap and effective? How about...
8" Economy Speaker Grill | Parts-Express.com


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Good luck with the build - I am very intrigued to see how those kicks come out. 

The only other time I saw this with an e46 was with Davy's car:

Buwalda Hybrids International Bulletin Board • View topic - My new build log...BMW goodness!

Certainly a way to get around the limitations that the doors present.

Edit! I just saw your build over there and you mentioned Davy's car....I'm curious what happened to his build - he didn't have any updates since '09 that I could see.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yeah, he is one crazy dude!

you can see his kick here...mine is less obtrusive if you compare my to my pic w/ the legs up above...



















also, i got ingenuous w/ a temporary "grill" - hah!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I really do like how yours came out - in the future I may either get an e92 (328i probably) or if I buy an e46 M3 - I may do the same as what you did. I'll be very interested in what you think of the sound when you get it completed.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> I really do like how yours came out - in the future I may either get an e92 (328i probably) or if I buy an e46 M3 - I may do the same as what you did. I'll be very interested in what you think of the sound when you get it completed.


cool, cool...

i went ahead and connected them up to the factory midbass wires...not sure what the LP crossover for them is...prolly 400ish hz...mainly just to get the suspensions moving for break-in. i can already tell you it is going to be worth the effort. the midbass is awesome! super clean, tight, accurate, and BIG! it's a new sensation for me with up-front midbass that DOESN'T vibrate/shake the door under your arm next to you. there is this glorious midbass that just "appears" in front of you - no tactile impact to tell you it's coming from the doors. and i do believe the decoupling technique is doing its job well, as i don't feel the floor vibrating a lot under my feet. there is some impact sensation, but not like there would be if they were directly attached to the car.

that might all change once the dc500.1 mono blocks are hooked up to them... :blush:


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

are you going to put the factory kick back in place and just wrap it with cloth, or leave the speakers as are?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

a pro installer friend of mine is going to build custom panels w/ grills - should look like it came from the factory this way when all is said and done... at least, that is the goal. he does grade A+ work. a reworked/custom dead pedal will also be included.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

sub baffle build is in progress. had to build it out far enough to clear some bracing to get the height necessary to mount the humongous sub.

4.25" total of baltic birch.


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

benny z, what happened? any updates?


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## nick650 (Feb 7, 2011)

Why would you want to put your speakers there?


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