# andys buildpage/help me page



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Hi all. Its been a while, with a whole new badge.

So I am just starting a build. I am just starting...So excuse the mess I promise withing the next two weeks it will look great. So my equip list real quick

dex99
focal hps4160 
jl hd6004
jlhd12001
Eric's old skool ID CD2 pro drivers with OLD BCde25's I believe
Beyma 8g40s
Morel 6.5's (was a maybe if I would do but after hearing the 8g40 I think Im doing them obviously)
Morel tw25's (will eventually change to some horn supers)

well hears some pics than Ill explain whats wrong

































































































































So...I am dead smack in the middle of it all, got the deck in all the wires run, doors done, I am waiting on new horn lenses so I temporarily mounted my old dynamated chipped up old ones but they still usable. I Got the Beymas and the HLCD's hooked up to the Focal amp just to see if this amp rips and also to see if it has the power of a HD6004JL and witch speakers I will use/Amps on what. (I wanted to try it out .:surprised:.)
So Its just the 8's and HLCD's right now the rest is coming and please ask what I plan to do because You may find it different? or doable.
So the HLCD's and the 8's sound like poo..Bad and I am kinda confused as to why. If you look at the install pics. Maybe you can help me figure out whats going on. So the Beymas have a ton of mid and ample mid bass. 60 to 100 sounds okay, 100 to 315 sounds like ass 315 to 1k is super strong, its LOUD but doesn't sound good, 1K to 3K is phazy 3K to 5K is mashed and sounds distorted 5K to 10K is not defined, can hear it but distorted. 10K up sounds like it drops off and If I add boost on P99 eq i cant hear it boost it just gets crappy sounding. and I have Engine Noise! Crap almighty, Last HLCD install I could tune to sound allot allot better, Maybe I am not used to High Sensitivity Mid bass , But I am finding it a ***** to tune. I have Lots of Eq cut, Its like I get 60 to 100 sounding good, but than I run out of room on EQ for turning down 125-315, And Its still muddy in that range.I have HLCD's XO at 630 30db and 8s at 80-630 24db
I have 3.15k shut down on eq and everything looks to be cut at least 6db except 12k is flat 16kis boosted 12db and 20k is flat. I really was hoping to get these two sets speakers to sound really good before I think about adding more. Imaging is crappy also, I think for sure my dash pods will help with that but that is only the other half of it. I just want for now to get these to sound tonally correct before I start playing with more . Any Ideas. Questions Much Appreciated. BTW I have been trolling this form for a while now, Ive read all the threads. So I am up to speed on a few things..BTW No Boost on EQ all cut. Thank you for your help.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

The morels and the tweeters..Ok that's a whole different thing. So , This car sits the driver up high away from the doors, The doors have to be out of phase to get them to sound right, than all mid bass goes away, cant have that and also its imposable to get the image to be over dash line, so I thought I would put some mids and some tweets up there to make the image go up. and to the center. So I am running the beymas off the sub channel with no relative delay between them. The low channels I will run the morels up in the dash the mid channels i will put on horns and high channels to some tweets, My thought was make it sound good for one seat not 2. Acoustically and speaker placement this car is hard, so If I run the 8s like that and morels I can play with Xo points /amplitude and make them blend with beymas and HLCD's and the morels I can add some delay to to get them numbers under 630 to have matching arrival times with HLCD's and Hope for a nice strong center image, The tweets are obviously to get the sound off the floor. The HLCD's are down there, This ain't no Honda, However I almost bought one But that's a different story. I just want awesome imaging all the way down to 200HZ, A dynamic sound and to get decently loud and clear. For now I just want to figure out these Beymas and how to EQ them with horns. They are so different than a Dayton or old IDQ or something. Again any help I will defiantly try.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I just went and did a good ole' RTA, Have a major dip right at 500hz everything else is manageable, Wow did that help a ton. I just don't have a golden ear like I do my wife's van. The Focal amp is defiantly the sickness, It gets stupid loud now and sounds dam good on trance songs. But for regular music it sounds all mashed up still with way too much mid. UUGH the RTA did make a HUGE difference, Its mostly flat within 3db except 500 is -8db . The Wifeys van is flat as a board and sounds killer with Dayton 8s in doors and Dayton 5's and 1's in dash pods, this flat sounds so different and in your face So, About the 8G40....Any ideas on eq tips or XO. It seems to do well XO at 100 12db. and 630 30db but eq ing them is so different, Is it OK to boost with high efficient midbass??


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Pics of your installed horns if you can. 

Think that 630Hz highpass is a bit low for horns... If you managed to install it very deep into the firewall, then maybe. 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> Pics of your installed horns if you can.
> 
> Think that 630Hz highpass is a bit low for horns... If you managed to install it very deep into the firewall, then maybe.
> 
> Kelvin


Hi Kelvin, Thanks for help. I have always crossed this set at 630 with good luck, just not in this car lol. Here's a few pics. Thank you!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

They go all the way back to the firewall. This car is not deep beyond the lip of the dash. They Barely fit up to the edge. I even had to jack up the HVAC fan and heater box 2 inches.They are far from my head tho but down low on my legs.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Guess you did read this thread for horn system tuning but I'll post it anyway: 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hlcd/168317-system-tuning.html 

If the system is well tuned, you won't need to install any kind of tweeter up high - I have a horn system and it plays @ eye sight level from extreme left to extreme right. 
A tweeter will lower the output potential of your system as a whole too. 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> Guess you did read this thread for horn system tuning but I'll post it anyway:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hlcd/168317-system-tuning.html
> 
> If the system is well tuned, you won't need to install any kind of tweeter up high - I have a horn system and it plays @ eye sight level from extreme left to extreme right.
> ...


Yes of course I read it. , however. This tune is for a two seat car...iI'm doing a one seat car. , I have apply ed the eqing principles it outlines just still sounds like poop. Well not totally bad just not perfect or great. I'm adding other speakers just as means to get sound off the floor. No matter how much phase/aamplitude mmanipulation iI try the music above 5k and below 600 is at my feet! The horn does nice in mid area getting sound upwards. .?? No?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

oabeieo said:


> Yes of course I read it. , however. This tune is for a two seat car...iI'm doing a one seat car. , I have apply ed the eqing principles it outlines just still sounds like poop. Well not totally bad just not perfect or great. I'm adding other speakers just as means to get sound off the floor. No matter how much phase/aamplitude mmanipulation iI try the music above 5k and below 600 is at my feet! The horn does nice in mid area getting sound upwards. .?? No?


I will try a tone genorator left/rright today and see if there is some diffrance between left right from listening position today.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

You need to have your levels between your horns and mids set correctly before doing any kind of phase or T/A adjustments. 
Setting your Xover point of 630Hz because that's what worked in another vehicle is not the right way to do it IME. I like to turn everything off except the horns when I start then HP the horns @ 1600Hz to listen to familiar tracks. 
Sounds good without being spitty? Lower the HP to 1.2kHz, then to 1kHz, then to 800Hz, and so on... 

In my car, I once had the HP set around 2kHz (yes it's a bit high but it worked) - now I'm using much shallower slopes. 

Kelvin


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> I will try a tone genorator left/rright today and see if there is some diffrance between left right from listening position today.


I like to do that right after setting my Xovers  

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> You need to have your levels between your horns and mids set correctly before doing any kind of phase or T/A adjustments.
> Setting your Xover point of 630Hz because that's what worked in another vehicle is not the right way to do it IME. I like to turn everything off except the horns when I start then HP the horns @ 1600Hz to listen to familiar tracks.
> Sounds good without being spitty? Lower the HP to 1.2kHz, then to 1kHz, then to 800Hz, and so on...
> 
> ...


Okay, I will try that actually. ..I did notice these 8g40s dO dam good in the mid area where another brand speaker would fall short to inefficient /ssound characteristic. Thank yOu.bOu.btw my phone likes to duplicate letters without showing me. Sorry ...llol


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> I like to do that right after setting my Xovers
> 
> Kelvin


Okay, I will try that first than. I'm going to the shop now,..tthank you. Like I says, I really hope to get just the 8's n horns dialed in before I do anything else As far as speakers go.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Do you think I can even get the sound up above dash line in this car without adding pods? I've try ed , but now this whole [email protected] thing has me thinking .....


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> Do you think I can even get the sound up above dash line in this car without adding pods? I've try ed , but now this whole [email protected] thing has me thinking .....


Definitely 

Kelvin


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Andy,

With just levels set properly, crossovers set, and phased correctly it should sound good and listeninable. This suggests to me you have some problems or issues. 

First I suggest you remove the diaphragms from the comepression drivers and clean the voice coil gap and Inspect the diaphragms for problems including tugging on the voice coil to make sure it all glued together well still.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The horns should be installed farther left and right is another observation.

For the 8's The factory grill opening is contributing to your problems also, and if you havent sealed the driver to the door panel with some closed cell foam around them it will be even worse. The cavity between the door panel and the door creates cavity and it will resonate badly


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Eric Stevens said:


> Andy,
> 
> With just levels set properly, crossovers set, and phased correctly it should sound good and listenable. This suggests to me you have some problems or issues.
> 
> First I suggest you remove the diaphragms from the compression drivers and clean the voice coil gap and Inspect the diaphragms for problems including tugging on the voice coil to make sure it all glued together well still.


Its crazy you say that, I think I have one buzzing at low volumes. Well not think I DO ! I will email you tonight and get a price on a new diaphragm. Heck, Ill probably just get two.







Eric Stevens said:


> The horns should be installed farther left and right is another observation.
> 
> For the 8's The factory grill opening is contributing to your problems also, and if you haven't sealed the driver to the door panel with some closed cell foam around them it will be even worse. The cavity between the door panel and the door creates cavity and it will resonate badly


They were a tight fit, The 8's are right up against the door panel. I have dynamat on the in side of the door panel sandwiched between the rim of the speaker and the door panel. My installers and I were shocked that those spaces and the door panel actually fit back on, I lucked out on that. If you look at the pic you can see the grill is set away from the riding edge so the speaker can move in and out freely while the rim is sealed between the door panel., It doesn't vibrate or rattle or buzz as far as the panel goes and all the sound is going out the grill and not into the door. So do you think that the grill is restricting the speakers out put and causing a change in frequency response?

I will play with the mount a bit and try to get it better when the new bodies arrive, They sent me a thing saying that theirs a delay on shipping cause snow..lol


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So it sounds better after setting levels and xo horns 800hz 18db and 8s at 630 24db , 
on the RTA its about a 1db per octave slope down from 100 to 20K smooth response, however it just sounds like there's ALLOT of 400-600HZ, I'm not used to the sound of these, Maybe I just need to get the sub installed. I got it to Image allot better its up decently high now, Singer is diffused but center. Work in progress....

I'm still going to try the dash pods , even if I end up loosing the Beyma 8's and going with something high sensitivity in the dash or taking pods out, I want to experiment and get the sound up high as well as the image and to be focused. Right now its a bit diffused but you can tell singer is on top of dash and in middle I just cant visualize their lips on there face so to speak. Maybe just a wide sound stage?...lol no I know I can do better . Of course I decide not to get a better car and to try to tackle the nightmare of making this car sound good. I just love old reliable to much I guess. 

Pics for fun. Hopefully I can get vinyl on them this week. Waiting on my supplier ..The ports are clogged I guess, no shipments on shop supplies as of late.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Okay just went a erased my eq setting to flat started all over again, set levels to sound its best XO, and have relatively even output on RTA. Re did Eric's steps in system tune. I changed his delay method to mine to accommodate for my one seat preference, Only thing different is I have added delay to left midbass after I went through his delay routine. and have some equal L and R volumes on frequencies above 315, Ended up boosting gain on horns about 3db after re doing eq. It sounds way way better from 200 up. 80 to 200 now has like no output, if i put boost on any of the filers It goes back to poop... OK so I even tho I think I sealed the doors maybe I will add some foam. The shop has a few kits for 6.5s I can cut and use a few sets to make it fit a 8"...

Thank you Kelvin & Eric, That's some tight advice. I didn't think the horns would sound good crossed at 800 or 1k and they do fine, I might even do the minis now so I can get them up farther back or what not. I still want to try to make a go at the FS. So If I cant get the doors to respond well below 200 maybe my ole dash pods will work and play from 200 to 50. And the tweeter I have, I will hook it up and cross it at 20K and see what happens. But I might just use it for looks. LOL


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I figured out what it was. This new Focal amp has little bush button on off switches for the crossovers in amp. The side the midbass is on looked like it was pushed out just like the side for horns, But the switch is not symmetrical to the other side , the high-pass was on on the 8''s at about 400hz. i flipped the switch and bu=ya! Everything is just right now. Did a re-tune and O yeah! Thanks All for the Help. I will post more pics of the build as I get it done. I was getting worried about these Beymas. Lol They are AMAZING speakers!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Should I be using this HOM foam that I am reading about?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

reticulated foam cant hurt anything but it will attenuate things a little above 10Khz.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I would, it helps in the 4k range.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> I would, it helps in the 4k range.


Hi Jason. Long time no talk...Ive grown up allot since we last debated. ( I was young and ignorant sorry) lol . I have read allot of your posts. I would love your insight as well..Thank You! So I have a whole roll of this 
Parts Express Speaker Cabinet Grill Foam 19" Wide x 31" Long x 3/8" Thick Black

Do you think this would work?

I will try it, and give it a honest whirl and not give up on so quick, but If I don't like it, well....I will try...I'm just afraid of burning out a coil from restriction. But with that said I don't listen all the way up like I used to, I'm more into SQ than loud these days. I just roll up a Lil piece and stick it down into throat yeah? Again Thank You!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Got these today. Woot Woot! I love the smell of new horn bodies.all slippery from the mold release. It's great. Very excited! 









------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a P-Bus Aux adapter laying around so I added this in just for fun. It sounds eeh..really good on vocals, everything else is sounds distorted, Ill tinker with it, Its more of a "oh hey look a tube pre-amp". Its fun I guess...Wont use it much I don't think.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> I would, it helps in the 4k range.


Hi Jason. Long time no talk...Ive grown up allot since we last debated. ( I was young and ignorant sorry) lol . I have read allot of your posts. I would love your insight as well..Thank You! So I have a whole roll of this 
Parts Express Speaker Cabinet Grill Foam 19" Wide x 31" Long x 3/8" Thick Black

Do you think this would work?

I will try it, and give it a honest whirl and not give up on so quick, but If I don't like it, well....I will try...I'm just afraid of burning out a coil from restriction. But with that said I don't listen all the way up like I used to, I'm more into SQ than loud these days. I just roll up a Lil piece and stick it down into throat yeah? Again Thank You!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Took the horns apart for a cleaning today and got the new bodies all mounted up, I'm glad I have a new diaphragm coming. Look how beat up this one is. It looks like a pebble has been in there , the titanium has actually worn thin in spots. After cleaning them they sound better, buzzing is gone. Is it Okay to have them dented like this. Also, the foam in the back chamber is disintegrating. so long as i don't touch it doesn't fall apart, but if I touch it the foam crumbles into dust. That cant be good can it? Can the movement of the diaphragm ever rub on it. If so tiny crumbs of foam could very easily get into the gap.Can I get new foam, If so What kind is it?
Thanks In Advance.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The dents arent optimal but it will still work.

I suggest replacing the foam, its a pita but worthwhile. Rockwool or other similar material works well for replacment if you doen want to try and cut foam to shape.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Listen to Eric...he's the man.

I normally would do the opposite of what Matt told me to do, but I would listen to Eric...lol. Then Matt would be like, "Well, how did that work out for you? I couldn't get it to work when I tried it 20 years a go."


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> Listen to Eric...he's the man.
> 
> I normally would do the opposite of what Matt told me to do, but I would listen to Eric...lol. Then Matt would be like, "Well, how did that work out for you? I couldn't get it to work when I tried it 20 years a go."


Lol...Yeah he has always been awesome to me. I remember a few years ago I was trying to get a horn install to work and he took an hour out of his day to explain something to me over the phone. Super awesome guy,..And yes as much as I want to try to figure out a way to make something work I find in the end that he was right the whole time...Witch leads me to my pods. I am having a phase hay day! The 8's and horns sound the best by them self's. I really was hoping to be able to DSP my way out of it but less truly is more..I am going to delete them..Or keep them and literally have two different types of speaker arrangements with a AB speaker switch hidden somewhere 2 EQ memories etc.. really want to try his new line when they are released.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

my right side compression driver keeps buzzing, Ive taken it apart now 3 times, It sounds like the buzzing goes away and then it comes back. When I get a new diaphragm do you think there is something in the gap or a sharp edge on lip where the gap starts, should I take sandpaper and scraper any sharp edges off the gap rim? will that with cause it to fail? or am i doing something wrong on the reinstall. I noticed the voice coil has a few small marks on the anodization where it was rubbing from debris that was in there before I cleaned them? Could that be whats causing it. The inner bobbin is worn as well. Hopefully the new diaphragm fixes it. How tight should the three hex bolts that hold the cap on be?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

You have to make sure it really is your RH horn - try to reverse your RCAs, does it switch side to the other horn? 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> You have to make sure it really is your RH horn - try to reverse your RCAs, does it switch side to the other horn?
> 
> Kelvin



Okay I will try, Thanks Kelvin. Hey BTW im crossed at 2.5k now. You were right , it sounds better and dosent hurt my ears at moderate volumes now.. Can I go 6db slopes at 2.5K? I would prefer to not have another crossover on at the amp for protection of the driver at 500 or something. I have it 12db now at 2.5k and sounds good, but 6db sounds better.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

okay, i tried it. It still there buzzing even when flip RCAs.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> Okay I will try, Thanks Kelvin. Hey BTW im crossed at 2.5k now. You were right , it sounds better and dosent hurt my ears at moderate volumes now.. Can I go 6db slopes at 2.5K? I would prefer to not have another crossover on at the amp for protection of the driver at 500 or something. I have it 12db now at 2.5k and sounds good, but 6db sounds better.


To be honest, I wouldn't go lower than 4kHz-5kHz with a 6dB/oct slope. 

2.5kHz with a 6dB/oct slope is kinda similar to a 300Hz 24dB/oct HP

Kelvin


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

oabeieo said:


> my right side compression driver keeps buzzing, Ive taken it apart now 3 times, It sounds like the buzzing goes away and then it comes back. When I get a new diaphragm do you think there is something in the gap or a sharp edge on lip where the gap starts, should I take sandpaper and scraper any sharp edges off the gap rim? will that with cause it to fail? or am i doing something wrong on the reinstall. I noticed the voice coil has a few small marks on the anodization where it was rubbing from debris that was in there before I cleaned them? Could that be whats causing it. The inner bobbin is worn as well. Hopefully the new diaphragm fixes it. How tight should the three hex bolts that hold the cap on be?


If there is still debris in the gap you will be able to see it with a light. Use masking tape to remove it.

The three screws should be snugged up tight but not over tight. If you have a tone generator handy hook it directly to the compression driver and find the buzzing by sweeping the frequency up and down. Then while its buzzing try messing with the screws to make it go away. Dont normally have to do this. Also you can cut thin shims out of paper to shim the diaphragm away from the phase plug.

Eric


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Eric Stevens said:


> If there is still debris in the gap you will be able to see it with a light. Use masking tape to remove it.
> 
> The three screws should be snugged up tight but not over tight. If you have a tone generator handy hook it directly to the compression driver and find the buzzing by sweeping the frequency up and down. Then while its buzzing try messing with the screws to make it go away. Dont normally have to do this. Also you can cut thin shims out of paper to shim the diaphragm away from the phase plug.
> 
> Eric



I think I finally got it....I cut paper rings out of paper and shimmed it.. so far so good its not buzzing. I cant believe you knew that trick that's so awesome! I would have never ever thought to do that. The diaphragm looks so stretched and thin right in the middle on the top from whatever got in there bouncing around giving it a beating. Besides the craters left behind from the asteroid that found its way in there, I can actually see the impression of the phase plug stamped into the top of the diaphragm. I think it worked. I played a bunch of different songs and I haven't heard it buzz. Thank You, That is nothing short of absolute experience with these.



subwoofery said:


> To be honest, I wouldn't go lower than 4kHz-5kHz with a 6dB/oct slope.
> 
> 2.5kHz with a 6dB/oct slope is kinda similar to a 300Hz 24dB/oct HP
> 
> Kelvin


 I'm crossed now at 5K 6db. , I like the sound of it crossed at 800-1k way better, but this actually gives a great sound image and its so much easier to tune this way. I can get it sounding great crossed at 800 but as soon as I change songs its like I have to start all over again. I know my car has like the worst locations but this is working pretty good now. The trade off for hearing the dynamic sound from the horns strong at 600-800 for perfect imaging to me is worth it. The beymas make up for it too, A regular speaker wouldn't give me the sound like this having the horns crossed this high. Thanks, The Beymas are crossed at 630 12db. Even with those slopes 800hz is still down 12db on the EQ. The placement of the speakers are less than Ideal for 800 hz to get right. I have complete cancellation at 500 and 100. That will be the next thing to fix. I gave up trying to Eq there. I had turned down all eq until response was as flat as possible, I noticed it was sounding spitty BAD, I basically had 500 and 100 at zero on eq and everything else down around it , If it turned 100 and 500 down to -12db it wasn't spitty anymore but sounding like it was missing something. So I re EQ and ignored 100 and 500 and didn't bring down everything else to that level I just pretended like it was there, I have allot less EQ now and it sounds good, Not as good as it did flat, but at least I can turn it up decently loud without the speakers garbling out. Ok I'm rambling...Thanks Guys!!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Put new diaphragm in , 1000000 times better,! Re tuned and set crossovers back to 800 realized I was having some major left and right differences in frequency response. 250 was strong on left side and 315 was strong on right side I used about 6db on each side counter eq and that made the biggest difference in midbass than 8k and up was allot louder on right side again about 6db sway to balance and than re rta and I think I'm finally liking it allot allot better now, horns are playing down low and don't sound on the floor. I have had some left right differences in cars before but holy bugeezuz the eq and left right levels are kinda very unusual, it's sounding pretty good now I'm definitely on the right track so my question is , well I'll first say I have always had the belief that if a flat rta doesn't sound really good and correct on a good recording something is wrong and needs to be fixed either phase or placement etc...so this kinda changes things a bit for me now because neither left or right is flat but the sum of them is ( sorta mostly) and it's working ( I think ) is that correct? Should I eq so left and right both separately have smooth response. Remember it's a one seat car , I don't care what the passenger hears.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

what is a good neo compression driver that will play low? Like 800 hz , I love the Cd2pro drivers I have (de25? Idk) I think I can get them further back in the dash if I use a smaller driver, and if I don't like them I have a set of mini bodies I can use them on and maybe do them in my wife's van I'm in the experiment phase again I was hoping not to go there but I can't avoid it. Any ideas ? I loved the selenium di2500 or whatever it was but I want something that diaphragms will b available for in case I ever need one. something similar to that would work well also. Thanks in advance


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

One horn is 6db louder than the other one at driver seat . The driver horn is allot quieter, I also can't get 16-20k out of it even at full boost. I cleaned them all the basics. Anyone ever see that ?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

oabeieo said:


> Put new diaphragm in , 1000000 times better,! Re tuned and set crossovers back to 800 realized I was having some major left and right differences in frequency response. 250 was strong on left side and 315 was strong on right side I used about 6db on each side counter eq and that made the biggest difference in midbass than 8k and up was allot louder on right side again about 6db sway to balance and than re rta and I think I'm finally liking it allot allot better now, horns are playing down low and don't sound on the floor. I have had some left right differences in cars before but holy bugeezuz the eq and left right levels are kinda very unusual, it's sounding pretty good now I'm definitely on the right track so my question is , well I'll first say I have always had the belief that if a flat rta doesn't sound really good and correct on a good recording something is wrong and needs to be fixed either phase or placement etc...so this kinda changes things a bit for me now because neither left or right is flat but the sum of them is ( sorta mostly) and it's working ( I think ) is that correct? Should I eq so left and right both separately have smooth response. Remember it's a one seat car , I don't care what the passenger hears.


Yes you want smooth flat response from both sides. Read my post on tuning there is a lot of good information there.

Flat frequency response is not always going to sound good even if everything else is done perfectly.

Flat response when done with proper spacial averaging and a moving microphone or an array will usually be very close to correct if everything else is good.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I figured it out, apparently I like them to play down to 0hz lol. 
I know on the Dex99rs I was tuning and for a fraction of a second I went from 6db to pass. Big oops.

12db @2k is okey ?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Just need to have 2 good working diaphragms in there at the same time


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Eric Stevens said:


> Just need to have 2 good working diaphragms in there at the same time


Indeed The one that's new sounds fantastic. 
Thank you for the help sincerely!



Eric Stevens said:


> Yes you want smooth flat response from both sides. Read my post on tuning there is a lot of good information there.
> 
> Flat frequency response is not always going to sound good even if everything else is done perfectly.
> 
> Flat response when done with proper spacial averaging and a moving microphone or an array will usually be very close to correct if everything else is good.


Yeah I read it about 20X, For some reason I thought I could modify it for one seat tuning, Now I am feeling like a moron because its coming full circle and I am ending up doing it EXACTLY like your tuning sticky says to do it with AWESOME results!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

You can always tell and it's obvious when you finally get it right! Good God horns sound so good especially when rest of system is balanced with them , I finally nailed it, I put the bad diaphragm in the one that doesn't have holes for now and one side is almost perfect but overall it sounds so awesome I'm so happy that it's working out in this car, so my question is this , I used to run them to [email protected] but I think those days are over at least in this car, my diaphragms took a dam beating over the years I remember I could feel the horn bodies viberate at higher levels. They sounded awesome doing it but I want to be a little more gentle on this set of diaphragms so I am crossed at 2k12db it's sounding super good and I can feel horn bodies vibrate a bit at ridiculous levels but not as much as I remember when they were at 630 back in the day, is [email protected] going to be ok? I don't want to beat these diaphragms up this time around. Thanks in advance


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

And BtW thank you everyone for the help! I'll post up more pics as I get the rest done, 

Also this HOM foam works! I just cut some strips and shoved it back into throat the foam is like 97% transparent don't notice it very much at all but it makes it not so scratchy up in high upper mid and it still sounds very much like a horn witch I like. Again thank everyone that helped!


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> You can always tell and it's obvious when you finally get it right! Good God horns sound so good especially when rest of system is balanced with them , I finally nailed it, I put the bad diaphragm in the one that doesn't have holes for now and one side is almost perfect but overall it sounds so awesome I'm so happy that it's working out in this car, so my question is this , I used to run them to [email protected] but I think those days are over at least in this car, my diaphragms took a dam beating over the years I remember I could feel the horn bodies viberate at higher levels. They sounded awesome doing it but I want to be a little more gentle on this set of diaphragms so I am crossed at 2k12db it's sounding super good and I can feel horn bodies vibrate a bit at ridiculous levels but not as much as I remember when they were at 630 back in the day, is [email protected] going to be ok? I don't want to beat these diaphragms up this time around. Thanks in advance


Before using a shallow slope (6dB), I was @ 2kHz 24dB/oct slope and managed to sound precise and really good - going lower did not work in my car 

Use what sounds good to you 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> Before using a shallow slope (6dB), I was @ 2kHz 24dB/oct slope and managed to sound precise and really good - going lower did not work in my car
> 
> Use what sounds good to you
> 
> Kelvin


It sounds good at 2k but is 12 db too shallow for 2k? i love the way they sound when they can gently reach down below 1k, I just don't want to end up with diaphrams that look like crunched aluminum foil again . Lol


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> It sounds good at 2k but is 12 db too shallow for 2k? i love the way they sound when they can gently reach down below 1k, I just don't want to end up with diaphrams that look like crunched aluminum foil again . Lol


I don't feel 2kHz with a 12dB/oct slope is too low. 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> I don't feel 2kHz with a 12dB/oct slope is too low.
> 
> Kelvin


Awesome !!! Thank you!!!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Got the new diaphram installed today Woot woot! Sounding pretty awesome now!!

I forgot I had a tube preamp installed, got to play with it a bit today, I think I'm warming up to it on some tracks, get it warming up. I didn't know you had to let these things warm up, if I let it sit on for about 5 min it sounds great! Yes it puts some distortion in, but it's got like a cool reverbish sound I sorta like on certain mellow songs, makes my system seem louder at lesser volumes, but that's probably distortion I think, but it's a pretty cool toy for sure, gives horns a totally diffrent sound, I will definitely be using it more now that I know how it works a little bit. Kinda makes me wonder if there's a better one than this one


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> Got the new diaphram installed today Woot woot! Sounding pretty awesome now!!
> 
> I forgot I had a tube preamp installed, got to play with it a bit today, I think I'm warming up to it on some tracks, get it warming up. I didn't know you had to let these things warm up, if I let it sit on for about 5 min it sounds great! Yes it puts some distortion in, but it's got like a cool reverbish sound I sorta like on certain mellow songs, makes my system seem louder at lesser volumes, but that's probably distortion I think, but it's a pretty cool toy for sure, gives horns a totally diffrent sound, I will definitely be using it more now that I know how it works a little bit. Kinda makes me wonder if there's a better one than this one


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/164752-victory-sonics-tube-preamps.html 

Kelvin


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/164752-victory-sonics-tube-preamps.html
> 
> Kelvin


Oh hot dam! I know what I'll be reading over next few days ,


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I finally got the vinyl for the pods, can't wait to get them wrapped I will post up pics as soon as I have time to wrap them, 

So in the last three weeks I have tryed the Beyma cp21/f , fostex t96a/2 super tweeters and morel st792 supreme. I loved the Beyma but I blew one in 10 min . I think I had crossed too low, the t96a/2 sounds ahhhh beautiful and the morel sound pretty dang good as well, and I hate soft dome wash sound , the t96 had some sizzle for sure, So I will be playing with the morel and the fostex over the next week and see witch one I like more, I got both sets used and a heck of a great price, witch ever one I don't use I am going to build a nice set of speakers for my shop. 

So I did something tonight I got sorta excited about cause I never done this before and gosh dang so far I really really like how it's sounding allot! I have the 8g40s playing from 100 to 315 with 12db slopes and the HLCDS playing from 630hz-1khz 36db slopes and the morel 6.5s playing from 1.6khz 6db slope to 3.15khz 6db slope and the morel tweeter playing from 4khz up with a 12db slope 
^^^^^^This is very odd way to configure but gosh dam it gets the job done very nicely. I finally got the horns tuned so they sounding really good but I couldn't stand that no matter how much eq manipulation I would try and phase changes everything above 5khz was on the floor. And than I couldn't get it to sound good below 2khz because I would run out of eq , I did get it so sound very very good that way, the horns were dam near off lol gains all way down and eq cuts everywhere, so doing it this way I have the horns gain pretty much all way down , and horns only play 1 oactave and the play low, I finally got the sound I am after and a good sound stage that has depth and the instruments are not mashed together. The stage narrows just a tidytad bit above 3k but the trade off to me is wort it to get the sound up high and not just just appear up high but to actually be up high . Stage is uber wide where it counts between 100 and 2khz. 

Anyway if anyone ever done this I would b intrested to hear about it. I will play more tomorrow. I just got excited that it worked so I wanted to post about it.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Maybe 1.4" exit mod in future


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