# Old School Fosgate Sytem in a Grand National



## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Sup guys,long time lurker here.....

I have an 87 Buick Grand National and I have the itch to put in the system I wanted when I was a teenager.Been gathering for a minute and this is what I have:

AMPS:
1 of the 40dsm
1 of the 60ix
2 of the 200ix
1 of the 4020
1 of the 4080
1 of the 250m2

Head Unit and signal processor
Alpine 7998 and Alpine 7940
Rockford Fosgate Symmetry EPX2 with DSP card upgrade

Subs:
3 JL 10w6's
2 brand new 4 ohm Punch Power DVC 12's

Mids and Highs
MB Quart 5 1/4 components in Q Forms(dunno model but not very impressive)

I plan on putting at least 2 layers of sound deadening in the car and trunk.

I want somthing that is loud and sounds good enough to win some shows BUT still remains stock looking like RC's Buick.

I am thinking of finishing the trunk in vinyl and have the back seat modified like RC's so the sound can play through....is it neccesary or can I just have the ports thru the rear deck???

Anyone know how hard it would be to put 6.5's or 8's in the rear panels?I know RC had 2 12's in there but for the life of me I cannot figure out how....

And does anyone know anyone who has made custom kick panels for a Regal??Not door pods but kicks....door pods just look to stuck on to me...

Which subs do you think will be a better choice and why?I remember the 2 Power 10's I had in my Accord in a ported box with a 200ix on em slammed VERY hard with rap and hit killer lows with rock/alternative music.

Can anyone reccomend a good set of componets that would work well in my application?

What about horns?

What about good midbass speakers?

Sorry for all the ?'s guys,im sure ill have alot more for ya!!!Thanks.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

You can also take a look at John Sketoe's car. Which is amazing and the build is sweet. Might check around the internet see if you can find some pics of his car also to help give you some ideas.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Is that the car with a 15" sub in the right rear trunk??

Personally,I dont really like anything ive seen besides Richard Clarks.I want a system that can be hidden from view....and I want it LOUD and CLEAN.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

NO. His car is pretty much stealth.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Just ordered 4 72 sqft bulk packs of Dynamat Extreme....

Anyone have any pictures or anything they can link me too??Ive already seen Biggs and RC's car....


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

broke1 said:


> Just ordered 4 72 sqft bulk packs of Dynamat Extreme....
> 
> Anyone have any pictures or anything they can link me too??Ive already seen Biggs and RC's car....


i might be mistaken but isnt the largest pack of dynamat 36 sq ft?


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

broke1 said:


> Just ordered 4 72 sqft bulk packs of Dynamat Extreme....
> 
> Anyone have any pictures or anything they can link me too??Ive already seen Biggs and RC's car....


I'm sorry but I'd have to call that an overkill waste of money, putting on more than one layer of CLD doesn't really improve anything in reducing panel resonances.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

shadowfactory said:


> I'm sorry but I'd have to call that an overkill waste of money, putting on more than one layer of CLD doesn't really improve anything in reducing panel resonances.


From my personal experience in my Dodge diesel,there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to sound deadener....It has over 500 sq ft and the roof isnt even done.....Its not all about helping sound,im trying to kill noise and if you think multiple layers doesnt cut down on exterior road noise you need a lesson.... 

If you owned or ever ridden in a turbo Regal with a single exhaust,youd know what im talking about resonance and interior noise.

Check ebay for the 72 sqft bulk packs....


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

broke1 said:


> From my personal experience in my Dodge diesel,there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to sound deadener....It has over 500 sq ft and the roof isnt even done.....Its not all about helping sound,im trying to kill noise and if you think multiple layers doesnt cut down on exterior road noise you need a lesson....
> 
> If you owned or ever ridden in a turbo Regal with a single exhaust,youd know what im talking about resonance and interior noise.
> 
> Check ebay for the 72 sqft bulk packs....


If you are using CLD for sound blocking and road noise you are even more misinformed than you sound. That is likely the most expensive and least effective way to block outside noise. If you spent less than half that money on a sheet of lead you would add less weight to the car and block much more noise than multiple layers of CLD.

Like I said, multiple layers don't really improve reduction of PANEL RESONANCES much, and CLD was NOT designed to be a sound barrier, but that is how you are (unfortunately) trying to use it.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

broke1 said:


> Is that the car with a 15" sub in the right rear trunk??


Yes, that's John's car.

Buwalda Hybrids International Bulletin Board • View topic - John's Grand National Hybrid competition Vehicle.

Jorge.


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## 6APPEAL (Apr 5, 2007)

RC's car was the pinnacle of stealth, just wish he would put it back together. Bigg's car was.... well I can't categorize it, but it was a fantastic car. John's car is great. Heard it last year, not sure if he's changing anything for this year. I didn't like every aspect of the car, but different strokes for different folks.

You're going to be adding a ton of weight, so you must not be worried about the performance aspect of the GN. I have the ATR 3" single shot on my TSM car, so I know what you're talking about with exhaust drone. Good luck.
John


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Genxx said:


> NO. His car is pretty much stealth.


My car is stealth......if you call big ol' 8's pounding out of the door and 6.5's at your feet stealth.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

broke1 said:


> Just ordered 4 72 sqft bulk packs of Dynamat Extreme....
> 
> Anyone have any pictures or anything they can link me too??Ive already seen Biggs and RC's car....


i'm going to suggest you rethink the amount of dynamat that you buy.

consider what you are trying to accomplish.

Dynamat is a vibration dampener, it doesn't block road noise as much as you would probably like.

Get some other products like mass loaded vinyl or lead to use as a sound barrier in conjunction with the proper amount of vibration damper.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

broke1 said:


> From my personal experience in my Dodge diesel,there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to sound deadener....It has over 500 sq ft and the roof isnt even done.....Its not all about helping sound,im trying to kill noise and if you think multiple layers doesnt cut down on exterior road noise you need a lesson....
> 
> If you owned or ever ridden in a turbo Regal with a single exhaust,youd know what im talking about resonance and interior noise.
> 
> Check ebay for the 72 sqft bulk packs....


I'm going to have to disagree, there are much better solutions for blocking sound.

Mass loaded vinyl and lead can work wonders. If you research sound transmission loss, and STC you will quickly learn CLD mats don't have the qualities required to do it effectively.

Sure a bunch of layers of it will block noise, BUT you spend about 10 times more money that you needed to...


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

If you guys think dynamat doesnt block noise AT ALL and just vibration,dont even reply in my thread because im speaking from experience,not what I have read and THINK I know about the product.Is it the best???Probably not and I never said it was....It is readily available,cheap,and I know it works though.

I will spend just as much on my stereo as I did this John









And its going in my street car with a 600rwhp engine.With the old system in the car,it already weighed over 4000lbs!!!!Its a fat ***** for sure but most GN drivers are 300lb pigs and im skinny so I can make up for a little stereo weight right there

If anyone has any constructive criticism and experience to back it up,fill me in....talking out of your ass doesnt do much for me......


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Well we have a second Tspence here on the forum now ^^^^. Already knows everything.

How the hell do you think the people on this forum know about lead, MLV ect. and what the limitations on deadener are.

I can tell you have nothing on 50% of the people on this forum when it comes to knowing about deadening.

Do some searching around here before just making assumptions and before making yourself look more like an ass.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Genxx said:


> Well we have a second Tspence here on the forum now ^^^^. Already knows everything.
> 
> How the hell do you think the people on this forum know about lead, MLV ect. and what the limitations on deadener are.
> 
> ...


Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......

How do I think the people on here know bout lead and such?READING ABOUT IT,not actually using it.

How much lead do YOU,Genxx, have in your car?Ill bet not a bit.....

No offence but a 35yo that drives a fast and furious ricer Prelude with 1 cheap ass 12 that thinks he knows everything probably doesnt know ****......

If ricers and people with no experience think im an ass,so be it.....Know it all???Why am I asking questions then?And why are you guys anwsering questions that no one has even asked????

And since when is "if you say it,SHOW ME somthing to back it up" become a know it all????Its like saying "ive been to the moon" and someone saying "well if you have been to the moon,show me some proof"THats no know it all but a person who is not dumb enough to beleive everything any self proclaimed internet guru says......


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......
> 
> How do I think the people on here know bout lead and such?READING ABOUT IT,not actually using it.
> 
> ...


Wow, just wow. Ping tspence, get in here stat!


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

> Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car...


 *= Fail.*

You'll lose all credit with that line. Expensive equipment has jack to do with knowledge, just think about the name of this forum for a moment. Oh and your stereo is probably more expensive than my car too.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Show me some proof gurus...since im so wrong,you should have millions of examples that are backed up with data like before and after microphone readings....SHOW ME OR SHUT THE **** UP.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......


Well Jack ****, nice to meet you. Now the forum has an a$$hole, monkey but, Donkey Punch, AND a Jack ****.... classy group we have here.




broke1 said:


> No offence but a 35yo that drives a fast and furious ricer Prelude with 1 cheap ass 12 that thinks he knows everything probably doesnt know ****......
> 
> If ricers and people with no experience think im an ass,so be it.....


Cut the ricer ****, stat. Nobody is stereotyping you on ricing out a GN.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......
> 
> How do I think the people on here know bout lead and such?READING ABOUT IT,not actually using it.
> 
> ...


Actually in the 06' F250 there is some lead (3 sqft) and other stuff in the truck you have no clue about.

In my 99 Prelude there is about 9 sqft. of lead and about 15 to 20sqft of MLV mat. Not to mention a bunch of other stuff you would not understand. 

Here is the Prelude system in a nutshell for you. This will help you make further assumptions about what I have own, income level or my knowledge base about audio.

HU 8455
Zapco DC1000.4 x 2
Zapco DC200.2 x 2
Zapco DC360.4 
Zapco DC350.2 x 2
Zapco DSP6 x 2
Zapco DRC
IDQ15 x 2
IDQ10 x 1
Front speakers are currently Hertz Mille x 2 pair but may soon be switched to HAT.
Probably about $1500 in deadener.
Also custom one off built dash with DD gauges.

We have not even started talking all the suspension, motor, wheel, tires, seats, paint, install ect. money.

We have not even started talking about the Truck (comp vehicle and trailer puller for the Prelude) or my daily driver yet. Sorry forgot to mention the Prelude is a comp. car and a trailer queen, once the build is complete.

So once again you have made assumptions and once again are wrong.

So continue on making yourself look like as ass it will be fun to watch.

You can rant and rave about money this and that on this forum 99% of us could care less. Like MVM says just becuase you can afford to buy audiophile equipment does not make you an audiophile. You sir seem to fit that statement perfectly.

BTW, I probably have more car audio stuff on shelves in the garage then you have ever owned in your life. Hell probably in amps alone on the shelves. Since you seem to be a show me what you got so I can make assumptions kinda guy.

You are correct I am 35 and have more than a Prelude. Prime example of what happens when you make assumptions.

05' Harley, 06' F250 CrewCab Lariat FX4, 99' Prelude, 08' Ford Focus, 17ft Enclosed trailer for the HD and a 24ft enclosed trailer for the Prelude, 06' Banshee, 01' Blaster, 04' Grizzley. So at 35 my cheap as is doing pretty good. BTW I own all of it except the Crewcab that I make payments on.

Anything else you like to know about me like penis size ect. just ask. 

Money and age seems to be the determining factor for you.

You will get much further around here using the search function to find out who knows what around here. Rather than asking us to show you our income level, age and penis size. It will also help you fix your I am holy then thou complex.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......


OH NOES!! A superhero! So you've spent some money, big freakin deal. Proves nothing other than you have at least at one time had some money... I've seen no proof of having any sense yet. 

By the way genxx has at least 3 cars / trucks with full blown systems in each that I know of one is a competition car.

Interesting that a person with the username Broke1 is bragging about having spent money.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

chad;763196
Cut the ricer **** said:


> Who is ricing out a GN???Why would you even think that??Thats about as stupid as the others comments....
> 
> And what is wrong with asking someone who makes outlandish comments for proof???Not a thing.....


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......
> 
> How do I think the people on here know bout lead and such?READING ABOUT IT,not actually using it.
> 
> ...


Actually genxx is using lead in his truck  . Watch your choice of words man, you are sounding too cocky.

Nobody is saying that the mat wont block ANY sound, we are saying there is a cheaper, more effective way of reducing road noise. Since you are a performance guy, you definitely want to save weight. 288sq ft of mat is very heavy and quite excessive for what you are wanting to accomplish. 

If your main goal is to tackle road noise, start with a few sheets of the dynamat on the flatest part of the floors. you dont need full coverage, just enough to stop the resonance. 
then apply a sheet of the vynil barrier pad and some closed cell foam to decouple it, for this youll want as much coverage as possible, if you can use some foil tape to seal off any gaps from the side, to prevent any leakage of sound escaping.

just doing that alone would have save you ~$200 and time(which is more valuable than anything)


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Just do a search for MLV and your prayers shall be answered. This has been discussed ad nauseum with enough data to make your head spin. No one is knocking your dedication to the project, but the thought of that much dynamat being the "end all be it" of sound deadening is as old school as the system itself. There has been so much knowledge gained in the last few years on the science of automobile sound deadening that it'd be a crime if you didn't spend a day or two researching the subject.

If you still insist on going with the "old school" method then you'll just be losing out. Use half that dynamat and use the money from the other 2 rolls on a CCF decoupler and a roll of MLV and you get so much more for your money. Give the guys on here a chance to help you out, they're knowledge may surprise you.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)




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## TJ Mobile Audio (May 6, 2009)

OK, I'm curious about the lead and MLV. Where can I get these things, how are they applied? I'm sick of using multiple layers of CLD if that's what you call dynamat. What does CLD stand for?

Thanks! Sorry to hijack the thread, good luck on that build, sounds like fun. Personally I think JL and RF are both overrated, but I'll probably be lambasted for saying that. If you're doing the car the way you like, then more power too you. Looking forward to pics.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> Show me some proof gurus...since im so wrong,you should have millions of examples that are backed up with data like before and after microphone readings....SHOW ME OR SHUT THE **** UP.


Dude!?! You claim to be a long time lurker here... I would think you would know that there are adults on this forum. Try and act like one yourself.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Wow, just wow. Ping tspence, get in here stat!


What the hell do you want old school? Aww, hell naw. Do you guys ever stop harrassing newbs? Man, don't wake me up unless it's something important like the ms-8 being released.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Sigh,lets pull pockts then broke dick bitchs:

heres my Riced $100k e55,just has over $10k worth of stereo but its not ****










Or my 500rwhp trash truck with around $12k worth of stereo **** 










One of my Grand Nationals,its real ricey so lookout!!!It only has $5k worth of stereo stuff.....










You numb nuts dont know me for ****....if u wanna get really jealous,ill post pics of my house....


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Post pics of your house please and your wife too  You are a balla!


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> You numb nuts dont know me for ****....if u wanna get really jealous,ill post pics of my house....



But you know all of us?? Will that house fit up your ass?


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Megalomaniac said:


> Actually genxx is using lead in his truck  . Watch your choice of words man, you are sounding too cocky.
> 
> Nobody is saying that the mat wont block ANY sound, we are saying there is a cheaper, more effective way of reducing road noise. Since you are a performance guy, you definitely want to save weight. 288sq ft of mat is very heavy and quite excessive for what you are wanting to accomplish.
> 
> ...


Actually shadowfactory said just that,read it.....


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Congrats, you're filthy rich. You win the checkbook dick measuring contest. Do you want a cookie?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

broke1 said:


> Who is ricing out a GN???Why would you even think that??Thats about as stupid as the others comments....


Actually it's worse that ricing it out. You are taking an already badass, rare car, loading it down with tons of **** thus ruining it's natural balance. Then streeting it with a 600HP motor.... and you never mention torque... because ricers talk HP, real rodders talk torque  That, and I'm SURE you will NEVER street race  Yep... Rice, 100% uncle Ben's.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

imjustjason said:


> But you know all of us?? Will that house fit up your ass?


Never said I did and damn sure didnt start insulting people like the ones replying in this thread....

I didnt start being an ******* but I can be one just as much as you numbnuts.....

If someone asks you to back up what you are saying,it doesnt make them a know it all or smart ass,just someone who likes to know WHY you say what you do....


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

broke1 said:


> Sigh,lets pull pockts then broke dick bitchs:
> 
> heres my Riced $100k e55,just has over $10k worth of stereo but its not ****
> 
> ...


I want to get jealous- let's see!


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Please do so all us other broke ass bitches can see what we are missing out on.

Should I go out and buy x that is worth $125,000 so I can be cool with you. I could but why that is just a waste of money.

$10,000 worth of audio in the Benz great you must be a real audiophile. Come on DIYMA bow down before the all mighty. He is the one we have waited so long to come to DIYMA and teach us noobs. We can now finally full fill our destiny and become audiophiles.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

broke1 said:


> Sigh,lets pull pockts then *broke dick bitchs*
> 
> 
> *You numb nuts* dont know me for ****....if u wanna get really jealous,ill post pics of my house....





broke1 said:


> just as much as *you numbnuts*.....


I'm ****ing serious, stop with the name calling. It's not helping your case one bit.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

chad said:


> Actually it's worse that ricing it out. You are taking an already badass, rare car, loading it down with tons of **** thus ruining it's natural balance. Then streeting it with a 600HP motor.... and you never mention torque... because ricers talk HP, real rodders talk torque  That, and I'm SURE you will NEVER street race  Yep... Rice, 100% uncle Ben's.



Badass and rare is right.Throw it in the gutter and go gets another.....Everyone is dumber for reading the rest of what you wrote...

You wanna talk tq??My truck makes over 1200 ft lbs,enough to peg most dyno jets.What does your make?


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

I've got a 5 bucks that says all of that crap is his parents.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I love it when people start swinging their money cocks........ Lets sell some DIYMA 12's while everyone is worked up.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

I've got another pair of DIYMA's ready to go. I got $1,200 for the last set.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......


I actually looked forward to this build until that right there... can be hard when people chime in their opinions on why you are doing something, but trying to say you have more money in a system than everyone else around here is not going to get much help on the question you did have. 

I hope you do get an answer and assistance on your first post, maybe then we'll get to see some progress on this build.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

broke1 said:


> Badass and rare is right.Throw it in the gutter and go gets another.....Everyone is dumber for reading the rest of what you wrote...



That's right dumber... lets swing a rope around... now lets swing a rope around with a sandbag on the end of it... do we now see the upset in dynamics?

First time you get that thing sideways you will notice the said change in dynamics.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

chad said:


> I'm ****ing serious, stop with the name calling. It's not helping your case one bit.


So you can start by calling me ricer and throwing your insults but I cant reply back??Kinda ****ed up dont ya think....

Look back and see who started with the insults....

You guys try to call my things crap and make it sound like anything I own would be a hacked POS,I show u pics of someo of my thing to let u know it isnt crap and im a braggart???


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

chad said:


> That's right dumber... lets swing a rope around... now lets swing a rope around with a sandbag on the end of it... do we now see the upset in dynamics?
> 
> First time you get that thing sideways you will notice the said change in dynamics.



Dude,ive owned 5 turbo Regals over the years all with huge stereos.The weight in the rear actually helps the car hook ALOT better than without the weight.Thats why drag racers put the battery over the rear tire....

See what I just did,I explained why and actually gave an example.Can you kids do that??


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

broke1 said:


> Look back and see who started with the insults....


Uhh... kinda looks like it was you, Einstein. 



broke1; said:


> If you guys think dynamat doesnt block noise AT ALL and just vibration,dont even reply in my thread because im speaking from experience,not what I have read and THINK I know about the product.


Other people started suggesting you rethink the amount of Dynamat Extreme you bought because there are better, lighter, and cheaper options. You took offense to that and told everyone else that they were talking out of their collective asses.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> Look back and see who started with the insults....


OK... OH!! Here it is...



broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

broke1 said:


> So you can start by calling me ricer and throwing your insults but I cant reply back??Kinda ****ed up dont ya think....
> 
> Look back and see who started with the insults....
> 
> You guys try to call my things crap and make it sound like anything I own would be a hacked POS,I show u pics of someo of my thing to let u know it isnt crap and im a braggart???


anywho, will you consider using the mass loaded vinyl instead of all that mat? Will save you lots of weight and installation time. Im not mentioning money again since you have plenty of it.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

broke1 said:


> If anyone has any constructive criticism and experience to back it up,fill me in....talking out of your ass doesnt do much for me......





broke1 said:


> No offence but a 35yo that drives a fast and furious ricer Prelude with 1 cheap ass 12 that thinks he knows everything probably doesnt know ****......





broke1 said:


> SHOW ME OR SHUT THE **** UP.





broke1 said:


> Sigh,lets pull pockts then broke dick bitchs:
> 
> You numb nuts dont know me for ****....if u wanna get really jealous,ill post pics of my house....


Actually you started the hostilities and name calling. Then you got called on it and got all e-hurt.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

dawgdan said:


> Uhh... kinda looks like it was you, Einstein.
> 
> 
> 
> Other people started suggesting you rethink the amount of Dynamat Extreme you bought because there are better, lighter, and cheaper options. You took offense to that and told everyone else that they were talking out of their collective asses.


Cant read post #9????????


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

imjustjason said:


> OK... OH!! Here it is...



I guess you can read post #9 either???


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Megalomaniac said:


> anywho, will you consider using the mass loaded vinyl instead of all that mat? Will save you lots of weight and installation time. Im not mentioning money again since you have plenty of it.


When somone can show me some scientific data that it actually works better than applying layers of sound deadener,sure....Somthing like before and after tests,not just, "its better and I say so"


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> I guess you can read post #9 either???


I think the word you're looking for there is CAN'T. But, yes I did read it. I saw nothing offensive.



broke1 said:


> When somone can show me some scientific data that it actually works better than applying layers of sound deadener,sure....Somthing like before and after tests,not just, "its better and I say so"


www.diymobileaudio.com

Feel free to take a second to look around.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

There are ton's of threads on here by many of us that have done all the test of this and that. Also links in threads of test on products ect. 

Like I said before the search function is your friend on this site. We have a no spoon feeding policy around here. The info is here already people are not going to sit here in this one thread and rehash 2 to 3 years worth of info. They all had to do the work so now it is your turn to do some work. It is to easy to use the search function.

I found nothing offensive in #9 either, maybe you are confused.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)




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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

broke1 said:


> When somone can show me some scientific data that it actually works better than applying layers of sound deadener,sure....Somthing like before and after tests,not just, "its better and I say so"



I linked it 2 previous post ago.

here:

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

Transmission loss when using a barrier


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

broke1 said:


> Cant read post #9????????


He said you were misinformed after you blew off his worthwhile suggestion.

And for what it's worth, CLD is like AM radio. At one point, AM radio was your only option for listening to music. But AM radio is still good for some things... like talk radio and... well, that's about it. 

Similarly, CLD mat has its place in car audio (reducing flat-plane sheet metal resonances) , but it's no longer the end-all be-all of noise deadening materials. There are a lot of better materials out on the market that don't require layer after tedious layer. Do some searching around here for "MLV", or "CCF" and you will find massive amounts of reading material and charts to pore over.

I think that's what everyone has been trying to suggest to you. If this many people are trying to tell you that there might be a better way, then perhaps you might want to see how valid their suggestions are.

Search.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

I guess it's a bad sign when I keep seeing posts with "old school gear" and the gear turns out to be much newer than I expect. 

When I think old-school Rockford gear, I don't think EPX2, I think P45's with skinny bass and treble knobs and no internal fuses, which would turn purple after they had run for a while. I think Audax hard-domes with an 8K 18dB crossover in shrink wrap, and 5.25 "mid-bass", and P75 and P150 with internal fuses (which were apparently there to give you something to do before sending the amp in for repair... because I never saw one blow where the amp was still good afterwards...: )

That said, the stuff you're talking about is what I would call the 3rd or 4th gen of RF products. I guess all history starts to compress the farther away it's viewed...


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Genxx said:


> Actually you started the hostilities and name calling. Then you got called on it and got all e-hurt.


Thats you opinion...Iead what you put in there about what you owned and all I have to say is HA.....I would go into more detail but I wouldnt want to brag...Your reply was 4-5 times longer than mine so u must have had somthing to prove to somone...u didnt prove **** to me,I know you a re broke dick,u didnt have to convince....

For the 10th and final time,show me somthing that backs up what you are saying.If you cant do that simple thing,then please do not reply.

I am sorry I do not belive everything someone says on the net.There are WAY to many know it alls that have never tried these things but are quick to give advice on somthing they read.....If you cant at least agree that most on the net think they are gurus when they really dont know ****,then I give up....

Its like in school where your teacher said "show your work or you wont get credit" SHOW ME.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

broke1 said:


> So you can start by calling me ricer and throwing your insults but I cant reply back??Kinda ****ed up dont ya think....


I never really threw an insult, you used ricer as a noun, I used *ricing* as a verb,... look back mang.. I did not call you anything, I have not called you a numb-nuts, I have not swung my money ****, I have spoken on logical terms. And car batteries are MUCH lighter than badass sound systems... again you said you were streeting it... not dragging it


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> For the 10th and final time,show me somthing that backs up what you are saying.If you cant do that simple thing,then please do not reply.


I guess you *can't* read post #59.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

VP Electricity said:


> I guess it's a bad sign when I keep seeing posts with "old school gear" and the gear turns out to be much newer than I expect.


Yeah, I kinda have to ignore that also... I'm too young to feel that old


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Megalomaniac said:


> I linked it 2 previous post ago.
> 
> here:
> 
> ...


That doesnt tell you **** really....

When someone does a test with layers of dyanamat,measures it with a MIC,and then pulls it out and replaces with mass loaded vinyl and takes another test with the MIC,thats scientific data.....

From that article: but MOST of us have been disappointed to take our masterpiece out for a ride, only to discover that traffic, road, engine and exhaust noise are only slightly diminished.

EVERY CAR IS DIFFERENT,EVERY EAR IS TOO.

I know what kind of results I got on my personal truck with dynamat.Are my ears lying to me?Do I not know my own vehicle??Have any of you heard my vehicle before and after to make the judgment??


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

broke1 said:


> For the 10th and final time,show me somthing that backs up what you are saying.If you cant do that simple thing,then please do not reply.



Like I have stated about 10 times. The research has already been done on this forum. I am not going to sit here and spoon feed you. That is why the search function is working on this site.


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

chad said:


> I never really threw an insult, you used ricer as a noun, I used *ricing* as a verb,... look back mang.. I did not call you anything, I have not called you a numb-nuts, I have not swung my money ****, I have spoken on logical terms. And car batteries are MUCH lighter than badass sound systems... again you said you were streeting it... not dragging it



Streeting it?WTH does that word mean???Dragging it??I do neither with my car,I drive it and race it.There is no streeting(not a word BTW) or dragging around my place....


Instead of talking all this BS that isnt getting anyone anywhere.Since all you guys say mass loaded vinyl is the way to go,lets see at least 1 before and after with a mic to back up what you are saying......ive never used mass loaded vinyl so I cant compare.....

But since everyone here is SO sure,there must be TONS of scientific data to back up what you are saying.


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## bird333 (May 28, 2008)

broke1 said:


> For the 10th and final time,show me somthing that backs up what you are saying.If you cant do that simple thing,then please do not reply.


What don't you understand about the word SEARCH?


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

Genxx said:


> Like I have stated about 10 times. The research has already been done on this forum. I am not going to sit here and spoon feed you. That is why the search function is working on this site.


Someone saying it works isnt any kind of proof.....Scientific data....Mic recordings wouldnt be to hard to do at all and will definetly prove it...

I flew to the moon in a home made UFO.What,u dont belive me??Well u can ask on the UFO forums and they will tell you that UFO exists and they will even show you a picture.....

It seems there is more proof that UFO's actually exist than MLV works better than dynamat......


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

broke1 said:


> That doesnt tell you **** really....
> 
> When someone does a test with layers of dyanamat,measures it with a MIC,and then pulls it out and replaces with mass loaded vinyl and takes another test with the MIC,thats scientific data.....
> 
> ...


Do whatever you want. Go buy more deadener, nobody here has a vested interest but you in this outcome. If people are bending over backwards to point you in a more efficient/effective direction, WITH SCIENTIFIC DATA, it's up to you to accept the help. Your scientific data is more FAILproof.  Go to ca.com and see how you make out.


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## TJ Mobile Audio (May 6, 2009)

chad said:


> I love it when people start swinging their money cocks........ Lets sell some DIYMA 12's while everyone is worked up.





imjustjason said:


> I've got another pair of DIYMA's ready to go. I got $1,200 for the last set.


:surprised: where'd you sell them? I've got a pair that I'll gladly let go for a measly $1k, LOL

So I don't fit in with you ballers, I've got a 1989 Nissan Sentra, I forked out a whole $500 for that one, and probably another $500 for the stereo.

I also have a 1997 F-250, is cost me a whopping $1,750, and I've loaded it down with precisely $0 of stereo equipment.

And I live in a lovely single-wide trailer chateau. And I have a hot wife. I'd post pics but I don't wanna make ya'll jealous.

Seriously, guys, this is the lamest high-school drama I've ever seen on this forum. Last I checked, good stereos depend more on installation skills and patience than they do on checkbooks. I'd like some honest information about lead and MLV, but since everyone is so busy having a cockfight it looks like I'll just research it myself.

I can tell you for sure: if petty fights like this broke out on this forum every day, it would not be nearly as useful a resource as it currently is. Please just swallow your pride and ignore the name-calling bastards. Yes that was intentional irony, and the piece about vehicles and houses was satire, in case anyone missed that point.

:mean:


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

All the searching shows is % reduction at certain Hertz which is meaningless and not very real world...most people ears cannot diffrentiate between those freq's.If we were dogs who have a much broader ear, it would be different but we are human....

A simple test of measureing the db's before and after would prove if this product is the best.....


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## broke1 (Jun 13, 2009)

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Do whatever you want. Go buy more deadener, nobody here has a vested interest but you in this outcome. If people are bending over backwards to point you in a more efficient/effective direction, WITH SCIENTIFIC DATA, it's up to you to accept the help. Your scientific data is more FAILproof.  Go to ca.com and see how you make out.



SIMPLE,SHOW ME 1 THREAD THAT SUPPORTS YOU WITH MIC DATA.

You CANT so you just keep going in circles.......


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

broke1 said:


> SIMPLE,SHOW ME 1 THREAD THAT SUPPORTS YOU WITH MIC DATA.
> 
> You CANT so you just keep going in circles.......


Hmm, where did I put that mic data? Hold on I think I found it :snore:


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

broke1 said:


> All the searching shows is % reduction at certain Hertz which is meaningless and not very real world...most people ears cannot diffrentiate between those freq's.If we were dogs who have a much broader ear, it would be different but we are human....
> 
> A simple test of measureing the db's before and after would prove if this product is the best.....


the db is mic data. its broken down into octaves for you to know exactly how effective the product is. 

is this the type of data you want, here its in the most laments form you can get










http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/noise_barrier/pdf/acoustical/Cedar_Knoll.pdf


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

broke1 said:


> All the searching shows is % reduction at certain Hertz which is meaningless and not very real world...most people ears cannot diffrentiate between those freq's.If we were dogs who have a much broader ear, it would be different but we are human....
> 
> A simple test of measureing the db's before and after would prove if this product is the best.....


Find it yourself, sport. You are in no position to make demands for people to track down info that you are incapable of finding on your own, apparently.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Wow, broke1 is yet another fine "Internet Commando" to make his way to my ignore list. Don't even bother replying to me because I won't see it after I type this!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

broke1 said:


> All the searching shows is % reduction at certain Hertz which is meaningless and not very real world...most people ears cannot diffrentiate between those freq's.If we were dogs who have a much broader ear, it would be different but we are human....
> 
> A simple test of measureing the db's before and after would prove if this product is the best.....


Then go for a drive before and take measurements. Apply said reduction to original measurements int he frequency domain, this will get you in the ball-park. Dogs can only hear higher, we have not figured out their curve yet because most audiology standards are geared to humans.

The numbers are up for many different materials, that IS the constant, a microphone is NOT a constant, an ear is NOT a constant. But the properties of said materials are. 

Man, I feel you, I'm going thru the same **** in my car that I have not TOUCHED with acoustic treatment. I'm taking more of a scientific approach to dealing with panel resonance, etc. and yes I DO plan to use a microphone and possibly tactile transducers to look at differences.

Currently searching for software that will generate decent waterfall plots that is affordable..... I've heard wavelab 5 will do it but I'm not dropping that chunk of change to just see.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

broke1 said:


> All the searching shows is % reduction at certain Hertz which is meaningless and not very real world...most people ears cannot diffrentiate between those freq's.If we were dogs who have a much broader ear, it would be different but we are human....


You know... that % reduction at certain Hertz you just tossed out is "scientific data." 



broke1 said:


> A simple test of measureing the db's before and after would prove if this product is the best.....


You mean, like a % reduction? You lost me. :laugh:


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

chad said:


> Then go for a drive before and take measurements. Apply said reduction to original measurements int he frequency domain, this will get you in the ball-park. Dogs can only hear higher, we have not figured out their curve yet because most audiology standards are geared to humans.
> 
> The numbers are up for many different materials, that IS the constant, a microphone is NOT a constant, an ear is NOT a constant. But the properties of said materials are.
> 
> ...


Find a stretch of road on the freeway that is rather smooth and will last for several minutes. While driving on it, have someone use a laptop to record a wav file from a microphone, then do a frequency analysis of the sound. Or if you can RTA it, that would work too. Also take SPL measurements of the overall noise. 

Then, after your acoustic treatement is complete, do the same set of recordings on the same stretch of road at the same driving speed. Report what results you get. I am very, very interested in doing just such an experiment but I don't have all the equipment I need to make it really scientific. My data would be rather general and "ballpark"-ish. Someone doing a "real world" before and after evaluation of sound deadening/proofing would be awesome.

The most sound theory on lowering noise inside a car is the method and materials laid out by Don on his sound deadener showdown website. I have held off doing my car's acoustic project while researching the best method and just when I think I have a good plan, I have to flush it and then think up a new scheme. Now I think I found the most scientifically convincing methodology in the butyl-damper/closed-cell-foam/vinyl sandwich method. I also plan to use expanding foam in my A/B/C pillars to further reduct wind noise then I'm thinking of even trying security film that claims a 3db-4db reduction in external noise reduction. I figure that combination should be the most promising plan I've put together yet.

However, if I can have someone do some testing before I buy materials, I will hold off a bit longer. I'm almost ready to buy materials from Don but I still have to measure my spare tire well. I pulled my back several days ago and don't want to lift out my 70-pound subwoofer box until I've healed a bit more.  Don's probably wondering where I've been hiding since the last email. :surprised:


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tspence73 said:


> Find a stretch of road on the freeway that is rather smooth and will last for several minutes. While driving on it, have someone use a laptop to record a wav file from a microphone, then do a frequency analysis of the sound. Or if you can RTA it, that would work too. Also take SPL measurements of the overall noise.
> 
> Then, after your acoustic treatement is complete, do the same set of recordings on the same stretch of road at the same driving speed. Report what results you get. I am very, very interested in doing just such an experiment but I don't have all the equipment I need to make it really scientific. My data would be rather general and "ballpark"-ish. Someone doing a "real world" before and after evaluation of sound deadening/proofing would be awesome.


Even better use some software to make the before the left channel and the after the right channel, toss it up ion SMAART and select the transfer function mode to actually SEE the frequency response of the difference


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

lilmsprelude said:


> condition of the road, imo, shouldnt be the smoothest you can find, rather an average road surface -- some, like the concrete we use around here, causes more tire noise than an asphalt surface. So it is really quite dependant on regional and environmental conditions.


There is a very specific reason why I recommend a smooth/even road. I've tried my own preliminary SPL measuring while driving 70mph on a freeway and found that unless the road is smooth, the meter jumps around FAR too much and I can't get a consistent reading. So, it's much more useful to use a smooth road to get pre/post readings that will be useful for what we are doing. Random jumps on the SPL meter from road inconsistencies will likely ruin any chance at getting good data. 

The reason for this? It's what we are trying to reduce, the 'din'. The average level of the noise around the listener. That is going to be best captured on a smooth road anyway. The sudden and random "thumps" jump the SPL meter needle as high as 8db from 88db avg to 96db spikes. That random spikey 'bump' is not the target noise we want to remove. The target noise is the 'din' of wind and average tire vibration on a specific/consistent surface. If you want to measure the reduction of a "bump" in the road, then you will want to engage in a completely different kind of test involving the focus on just the abnormality itself.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

tspence73 said:


> There is a very specific reason why I recommend a smooth/even road. I've tried my own preliminary SPL measuring while driving 70mph on a freeway and found that unless the road is smooth, the meter jumps around FAR too much and I can't get a consistent reading. So, it's much more useful to use a smooth road to get pre/post readings that will be useful for what we are doing. Random jumps on the SPL meter from road inconsistencies will likely ruin any chance at getting good data.


What SPL meter are you using?

I am thinking that if you are using one of those small Radio Shack DB meters that may be the problem, and with some better test equipment that can record real time (on a computer) it may give better results than what you saw.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

the response time of the meter needs to be changed. Most meters will allow you to adjust your averaging window. Some computer softeare for this will drive you into an epileptic seizure trying to decipher it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

There's a world of difference between what something is 'worth' and what you paid...


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

broke1 said:


> *Someone saying it works* isnt any kind of proof.....


You mean like the 15 times _you've_ said what _you've_ already done. Just keep doing what you've done since you're so convinced of it's effectivness. We're not arguing _against _your addiction to vibration mat, we're arguing _for better ways_ of accomplishing your goals. 

Look man, just calm down a second. You seem to be a little attached to your car and your OS ways, that's fine. What has been put forth by a number members so far is a MORE APPLICABLE use of material, not that multi-layering doesn't work.

Look at it this way. If your roommate plays his stereo too loud and you want to quiet the wall that separates your rooms, you have many ways you can do it. You *can *reach 60 STC (which means you can barley hear the stereo) through countless ways. You could do it with lead, Dynamat, foam, dead animals or belly button lint. What science says is that MASS rules, NOT material. This has been discussed over and over and over on this forum, so I suggest you do a little research if you're truly interested in learning *better ways.*


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

broke1 said:


> All the searching shows is % reduction at certain Hertz which is meaningless and not very real world...most people ears cannot diffrentiate between those freq's.If we were dogs who have a much broader ear, it would be different but we are human....
> 
> A simple test of measureing the db's before and after would prove if this product is the best.....


Guys, this is the problem. Its not that he cant search, its that he doesnt understand it, and does not know how to read the data. 

This is something that only education can fix, and if he deosnt want to take the time to learn, no one here can help him, not even Mir's picture (although that was pretty simple)


Broke1 - first of all, you are a first class kind of guy. I hope I never have the "privilege" of meeting you.

Second - Read up on sound transmission and transmission loss. Then read up on the frequencies that road noise generally occurs at. Then you can look at the fancy pictographs and understand how it works. Its actually pretty interesting, if you care about it.

Also, just because you only trust Dynamat, check out their site and do some reading there(they have a technical section). Even they know the benefits of other products for frequency attenuation.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

lilmsprelude said:


> Noise reduction is NOT all about mass I am sorry to say. I am going to guess you have not experienced the magic of decoupling using closed cell foam. There are MANY new products out there beyond butyl mat.


Actually, noise reduction is more about mass then any other factor. Vibration damping is less about mass and more about viscoelasticity.

If the goal of vibration damper is to turn mechanical motion into heat and 90% of this goal is achieved with 1 layer, the second layer going down will NOT get you another 90%. More damper implies the previous layer is resonant. Therefore, use more damper if your damper is vibrating until you reach the point of no return. Anyone care to guess where the point of no return is? 

If the goal of transmission loss is to (super dumb version) put heavy stuff in front of big waves, then putting light stuff in front only gets you so far. There is NO MAGIC in materials - the magic comes from the marketing departments at places like Dynamat.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

lilmsprelude said:


> a matters particular resonant frequency is DIRECTLY related to it's mass. This is what broke1 is doing, in abundance, without considering the effectiveness of the actual *sound reduction *characteristics of decoupling said [reduced] vibrations from the environment, ie: the interior of your car.


If you think the goal of vibration damping it to mass load, then I think you're wrong. There's a relationship, but it's not a strong one. A stronger relationship exists between viscoelasticy (nature and type of damping solution) and damping. Adding mass to a panel doesn't necessarly make it quieter. Glue an equivalent amount of rocks as CLD mat to your doors and see if that does anything for you. 

Transmission loss refers to noise reduction across a partition. Mass Law governs this, as I said before. 

I'm not sure of your use of "decoupling" but when it comes to noise reduction, then it's beneficial to decouple a barrier from a surface to avoid setting it into motion. A barrier is only as good as it's resonant frequency. If a barrier is resonant (think the outer door skin of your doors) then it will fail to reduce the noise going through it at that point and below.

The *best* would be to damp the substrate and then float a barrier (decouple) on top of it to get the best of both worlds. Do you need to do this on every panel of your car? No. Is it the ONLY way to do it? No. Should you treat the problems with the most ideal solution? ___________________?????


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## pikers (Oct 21, 2007)

broke1 said:


> Ok Professor....Its funny that this person that doesnt know jack ****(me) has a stereo in my daily worth more than your whole car.......


What does that have to do with the way it sounds, or how quiet your car is? I don't think he asked you anything about how much your stereo was.

There are a lot of people here that speak from experience. Being told your course of action was incorrect after spending tons on said course is never a fun thing to hear, but it is fun to watch the result:laugh:


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

pikers said:


> What does that have to do with the way it sounds, or how quiet your car is? I don't think he asked you anything about how much your stereo was.
> 
> There are a lot of people here that speak from experience. Being told your course of action was incorrect after spending tons on said course is never a fun thing to hear, but it is fun to watch the result:laugh:


I think it is normal for some people to want to defend the method they chose to use to deaden their car. Remember, it hasn't been common knowledge what the best steps are to sound dampen or apply noise reduction to a car. 

People who have already spent a ton of money on dynamat want to defend their choice and truly may believe they are using the best noise reduction method for their car. Now that new information and better products become known, it's easy to understand how some of those people turn out sensitive in forum discussions when they have already spent a ton of unnecessary money and a lot of personal time for *some* benefit but not the best. Nobody likes to hear that.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

imjustjason said:


> But you know all of us?? Will that house fit up your ass?


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Good god, that was funny. Good luck to you OP, you've got a LOT to learn about this site and how to treat people that are trying WAY to hard to help your ungrateful ass.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

lilmsprelude said:


> My thought process, and my point is, The mass of a layer of of Damplifier lowers said resonant frequency and thus it affects the perceived noise level in the vehicle, but this is not the only step one needs to take in their effort for true sound deadening.


It is not the mass of CLD that lowers the resonant frequency, it's the viscoelasticity.



> It is true, using mass (butyl rubber in this case) does stop some of the sound energy by converting it to heat, I am NOT disputing that. But adding layer upon layer of said mass is exponentially less efficient as one adds layers.


Everyone with reason agrees that layer upon layer of CLD is stupid. Again, though, the mass is not what converts the energy to heat. The viscoelasticity is. CLD is not massive.



> Vibration Dampening and Sound dampening are clearly two different beasts.


How is dampening different from dampening? Barriers are a different beast, though.



> And yes, Any Mass, or weight, as in your example of rocks, will lower the resonant frequency, it is just that rocks are not the most efficient method. LOL


Yes. But this is not primarily how CLD works.


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## Andy Jones (May 12, 2006)

broke1 said:


> Sup guys,long time lurker here.....
> 
> AMPS:
> 1 of the 40dsm
> ...


I'd use the Power 12's. Free air them behind the seats, or if you are willing to modify your car, I'd put them in the side panels. You will end up cutting some serious metal and need to rebuild that panel completely, but it would center the weight up more than having subs in your trunk. 

Amp wise: 1 200ix on each 12

Front stage--you will want something bigger than a Quart 5 1/4". Not a lot of 5 1/4" if any will give you the output you want for midbass and to blend with a 12".

Dynaudio and Morel Elates would work nicely in your kicks and generally do not require a ton of tuning to sound good. Do at least a 6 1/2". Copying Gary kickpanel grills would work nicely. They were fairly stealthy. What you do behind those grills will depend on what speakers you use and what modifications you are willing to make to the car.

I'm not a huge fan of the Rockford processor. It is a decent processor but not really flexible enough. If you are stuck with it, then roll on. If not, I would look to some better ones that are out there. 

Amp wise on a two way front stage: 4080 bridged to the mid driver. 60ix on the tweeter. 


The 250m2 is a sweet amp and if you could find a second one then you could bridge them together to drive the subs and use the 200ix's on the front stage. That would nice. 



Where in Alabama are you? I'd like to hear the mercedes and this car when it is done.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

broke1 said:


> That doesnt tell you **** really....
> 
> When someone does a test with layers of dyanamat,measures it with a MIC,and then pulls it out and replaces with mass loaded vinyl and takes another test with the MIC,thats scientific data.....
> 
> ...


Our ears lie to us constantly, especially when we have invested money and effort into something we want to have happen. Dynamat Xtreme is halfway decent way to block sound - it's just a very expensive way to achieve suboptimal results and preclude any future maintenance on the vehicle's sheet metal. Here are readings taken with a mic. DX and MLV on 22 gauge steel. Guess which is which.


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

Wow, I just checked back in on this thread and it became instantly hilarious.

I love it when people ask for advice and then get supremely and dickishly offended when someone with much more experience and education on the matter gives them an answer they just don't want to hear. 

BTW OP, I think your question mark key is stuck, you should get your keyboard fixed. :laugh:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I'll add that it takes 4 layers of a product like Dynamat Xtreme to start blocking as well as a dedicated 1lb/ft² barrier.


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Love the tags is this thread.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> I'll add that it takes 4 layers of a product like Dynamat Xtreme to start blocking as well as a dedicated 1lb/ft² barrier.


which if you consider the cost difference between 4 full coverage layers of dynamat extreme to 1 full layer of mass loaded vinyl, it makes using 4 layers of dynamat ridiculous.

I can get 108 sq feet of mlv for $136 locally..... 

432 Sq feet of dynamat extreme (same result as 108 sq ft of MLV) would cost what? $1500?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

falkenbd said:


> which if you consider the cost difference between 4 full coverage layers of dynamat extreme to 1 full layer of mass loaded vinyl, it makes using 4 layers of dynamat ridiculous.
> 
> I can get 108 sq feet of mlv for $136 locally.....
> 
> 432 Sq feet of dynamat extreme (same result as 108 sq ft of MLV) would cost what? $1500?


Even beyond cost, 4 layers of Dynamat Xtreme (or similar) is a permanent modification to the vehicle that doesn't need to be done. To damp resonance, the material needs to be tightly bonded to the substrate. To block sound it doesn't need to be and really shouldn't be. If I needed to get to the floor to do some work, I'd much rather be faced with something I can just lift out of the way like a carpet than something I will have to hack my way through, turning the material into trash along the way. Those of us who have done the many layer of CLD thing did it because we didn't know any better at the time. Live and learn.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

dawgdan said:


> Love the tags in this thread.


Wish I had more than 5 to use.


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

goodstuff said:


> Wish I had more than 5 to use.


nvm...


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

http://karamanesht.com/pics/4chan/******%20tree.jpg


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

James Bang said:


> wtf?! ftfu


ftfu?

wdymbt? idnu. And how is the word "douche" not in the tag cloud by now? I think that's my mission for the day.


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

goodstuff said:


> ftfu?
> 
> wdymbt? idnu. And how is the word "douche" not in the tag cloud by now? I think that's my mission for the day.


sorry, nvm.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

James Bang said:


> sorry, nvm.


:laugh:


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

James Bang said:


> sorry, nvm.


I guess the OP thinks it's funny to put our S/N names in the tag cloud under a different screename.  Thanks.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

goodstuff said:


> I guess the OP thinks it's funny to put our S/N names in the tag cloud under a different screename.  Thanks.


He has not logged on since yesterday...... I don't think he has sock puppets either.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

chad said:


> He has not logged on since yesterday...... I don't think he has sock puppets either.


I can't see anyone else doing it is all. It seems like someone who doens't really know how the whole tag thing works. Sock puppets, ha ha.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

goodstuff said:


> Sock puppets, ha ha.


It's an old usenet thing :blush:


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)




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## sublime_ac (Jun 30, 2009)

I wish I had known about some of the newer solutions to sound deadening when I did the stereo in my '73 Challenger. I must of added a few hundred pounds of dynamat x-treme to that car. It certainly is quieter than when it was stock and doesn't resonate at all.. But it'd be nice to quiet it down even more inside.


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

imjustjason said:


>


you done meow? 

my turn:


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