# Entire new system..



## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

So i'm 60yrs old and my son is coming back from Iraq and I'm trying to get this entire system for his 2005 F150 super crew cab...

What I need help with because I'm a complete idiot when it comes to these things is quite simple and I'm sure this post will be moved and I will be the laughing stock of the boards...


I've done some research and well I just don't understand any of it in the scientific way its explained to me. 

First My son wants to have one 12'' and able to hit low and loud to turn heads while keeping good quality. He said he wants to hear the words to his music so that tells me he is going to need everything. 

1. 12'' sub 
2. four 6x8 drivers
3. 4 tweeters
5. 1 amp
6. 4 crossovers (I think he will need that)

So here are my questions for my sons system...

Will he need a multi channel amp for all of this? We are talking he wants at least 600watt RMS sub. So that will be a tad bit louder than everything else running off the stock HU. Will he need a new HU? How would I wire this setup? Is their any specific brands out there I should avoid when buying these?

Actually if you want to help this old geezer do his son justice just give me wishlist or some links to the products you would get for a 1100$ I may need a shallow mount subwoofer i don't know yet I'm still waiting on a site to send me the specs on the MTX Thunderfoam box for his truck. So if you can put a shallow and a regular sub link that would be great.


Thank you ahead of time and best of days to all of you.

~Brechin


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## huckorris (Sep 2, 2009)

A lot of people would suggest (circular) 6.5" drivers instead of the 6x8s. I'm not sure of all the reasons why but there is definetly much more selection when it comes to 6.5". Plus you can get adapters to use 6.5"s in a 6x8 opening.

You may want to consider not putting speakers in the rear doors. More money to buy them, power them, and install them. 2 nice speakers will probably sound better than 4 decent speakers.

Who is going to install it?

What kind of music does he like? Hip hop or Rock or what?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Things you should know before starting

1) Never buy crap at Walmart or other discount stores. You can get DIY equipment that is 1/2 the price of Wallyworld crap and 10x better. People win competitions with drivers that are cheaper than the $100 junk from big box stores.

2) No one I know on here likes non-round drivers. Think about it. There is something inherently non-linear about an oblong driver. The weight is not equally distributed in the cone. Maybe the surround can keep them in check, but you're still starting from a bad place. 

*****************************************************************

Considerations for you

1) Most people who are serious about their car audio do not want anything but speakers in front of them. That's how we hear music. When you are in a concert, you don't turn your back to the stage. Worse than that, rear speakers cause sonic interference with the front speakers. Unless your son wants to impress his buddies in the rear seat, I would skip the rear speakers. It also allows you to spend more money where you need to. If you still want to do rear speakers, it's up to you. Most of us only care about sound for us, not our passengers. 

2) Ideally you will need one amp channel per speaker if you use passive crossovers (the ones in the little boxes). Active crossovers are built into nicer head units. If you use 5 speakers, you want a five channel amp. I would not recommend using active crossovers in your case. It's too much to learn right now. I would seriously consider just getting one good component set for the front doors and skipping the rest. Then you just need one two channel amp for them and one for the sub (unless you buy an amp with a staggered design that will allow you 125w x 2 for the front and 600w x 1 for the sub.

3) Ideally you would want a new head unit. They offer a lot more features than stock. There are integration units that allow you to tune the sound coming out of stock head units, but they typically cost even more than a brand new head unit would cost. 

For speakers, these are a great bargain and they sound good. People like a particular sound, but I don't think anyone could say these sound bad. Don't worry about power ratings, they are a joke anyway. 
TS-C720PRS - Pioneer Premier 6.75" Component Speaker System
These are an alternative
SPX-17PRO - Alpine Type-X Pro Series 6-3/4" Component Speaker System
Both would make most beginning car audio people happy for now. 

These are a great bargain for amps. You better jump on them quickly. People have been snatching them up like crazy. They also allow you to use the output from the stock head unit. You can get one to power the front speakers and one for the sub. It's not hard to wire two amps as opposed to one. 
Clarion DPX2251 2-channel car amplifier — 180 watts x 2 at Crutchfield Outlet

If you really want to blow your son away, substitute one of these for the sub--it has twice the power.
Clarion DPX11551 Mono subwoofer amplifier — 1550 watts x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com

Don't worry about expensive wiring. It's not any better. Don't waste $75 on Monster RCA connectors. Something like this will work just fine: For only $2.53 each when QTY 50+ purchased - PREMIUM 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - 12ft | 2-RCA Audio Cables

If you can go with a full size sub:
Parts-Express.comayton TIT320C-4 12" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm | subwoofer 12" subwoofer tit320c-4 titanic mkii titanic dayton titanic 12" woofer titaSub-41108
Or for a little more output
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-466

Or if you want to spend a little more and REALLY blow your son away...
Look at the BL12" dual 1 ohm (you need to get the right impedance to maximize the output from your amp so you will wire this to get a 2 ohm load). I would only get this if you go with the more powerful Clarion amp.
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficarau..._Speakers/0020_BL/product_overview.shopscript

You want some of this for the doors that the speakers will go in
Damplifier Pro - Acoustic Vibration Dampening Mat

Pioneer 720PRS + Clarion-DPX2251 + Clarion DPX11551 + FI Bl12 + Damplifier + wire and incidentals = $1000 You can build your own sub enclosure (and should because you can make one twice the quality and half the price of a store bought one) for another $50 in supplies.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

Mooble said:


> Pioneer 720PRS + Clarion-DPX2251 + Clarion DPX11551 + FI Bl12 + Damplifier + wire and incidentals = $1000 You can build your own sub enclosure (and should because you can make one twice the quality and half the price of a store bought one) for another $50 in supplies.


^This, coupled with an Alpine CDA-9887, CDA-9886, Pioneer DEH-880 or DEH-880 will make a very nice system. Also, if your son wants to come here and get crazy (like us), it will be an add only situation.(not replace)


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## BCF150 (Jan 18, 2008)

I also have a 2005 F150 Supercrew. I will second almost everything Mooble said above. The Pioneer 720PRS and the Clarion amps are very good choices. Also don't forget the sound damping (the Damplifier he mentioned).

However Mooble's sub choices aren't going to work unless your going to do some customizing. Most people with our trucks mount their subs under the rear seat. To accomplish this you will have to use a shallow mount 10 or maybe a 12. I would look into the Image Dynamics IDQ10v2, JL Audio 13-TW5, or the Stereo Integrity BM12. These will fit under the seat without any modifying. Check out Supercrewsounds.com for box and other sub ideas.

Now if you want one of the subs that Mooble recommends you can use them but you would have to build a center console box for between the rear seats.

The most popular location for mounting your amps will be on the rear wall behind the seats. Check out Arcutek's build log on here. He gives you step by step instructions on how to remove the seats and fabricate an amp rack. Also check out the audio section at f150online.com, there's losts of ideas and posted pictures over there.

Theres a lot more, just pm me if you have questions.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

arcuhtek has a nice f150 thread you can read through to give you some great pointers


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

It would be this one...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/53086-my-2008-f150-supercrew-install.html


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## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree round speakers will be better, so do look into 6x8 adapters which let you install a 6.5" round.. since you already said you will be running the 4 corners off DECK power, that means separate components (a mid and a tweet) will not be the greatest choice. The crossover boxes as you called them will soak away some of that power, and you can't really afford to lose any of that deck power.

If you DO want to only get an amp for the sub, i suggest some nice coaxials for all 4 positions. It gets nauseating how most people here push no rear speakers. On the other hand, this is a truck cab, and in this particular case, I might consider skipping rear speakers too. Its not a huge space you need to fill..

No one can tell you what speaker brand is best. You have to figure out your budget for the 2 (or 4) main speakers and then plan around that. You might be able to buy an aftermarket deck, amp, sub, and one set of components for the front for $1100, but that all depends on if you are paying someone for an install or doing it yourself.

I have a shallow mount Pioneer 10" which sounds great, so a shallow mount sub is a fine idea, espeically in a truck. You can find various shallow subs for $100-$150 if you choose to shop online. Some people will tell you not to shop online but thats usually because they own a shop. You will find prices half of what they are in stores if you shop online. I have never used a car stereo warranty in 15 years, and authorized isnt as big a deal as its cracked up to be.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Oh geez. I didn't think you'd want to power the speakers from the stock deck. Ew. If so, don't spend much on speakers because you won't get many watts from the stock deck before it starts clipping. 

If you want to use the stock deck get two sets of these and call it a day. RSD65cs - Phoenix Gold 6.5" Component Speaker System

Those plus a DPX amp and a shallow mount sub will only set you back $500-$600.


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## NOFATTYS (Jan 5, 2009)

Since no one else said it...let me thank you for your sons willingness to risk his life in Iraq. While I dont support the war, being a vet myself, I do wholeheartedly support the troops that get stuck over there. Thank You


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

NOFATTYS said:


> Since no one else said it...let me thank you for your sons willingness to risk his life in Iraq. While I dont support the war, being a vet myself, I do wholeheartedly support the troops that get stuck over there. Thank You


Yeah, that's kinda why I bothered to put that much thought into this. It's a nice thing you are doing for him.


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## khanhfat (Feb 4, 2008)

wow youre such a cool dad.

WEll if he wants to hear the lyrics clearly without too much bass then he has to tune it the way he likes. 

My recommendation: ( probably this could be out of your buget- since you haven't tell us how much you want to spend.)

HU: Eclipse 7200/ Or clarion DRZ9255 if you can afford
Speakers: Hertz mlk165 or lower HSK series
Sub some thing that will fit in your truck , JL TW series is quite good.
Amp:Audison LRx 2.9 for mid woofer, LRX 5.1k for tweeters and sub channel for woofer  . Because it's a truck idon't know much about space available to build a sub box for underneath the seats. you might want to look into other subs that will fit in there.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

khanhfat said:


> wow youre such a cool dad.
> 
> WEll if he wants to hear the lyrics clearly without too much bass then he has to tune it the way he likes.
> 
> ...


Whoa dude! $1,100 limit. Even used he can't get that for under $2k.


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

Where are the NC guys that can help this man out. I know there are a tons of guys down there that should be able to help you with the install. Hell if you were closer to NJ I would do it myself.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Yeah, if some people from the forum can help you on the install, you can get a kickass system installed and tuned properly (unlike you are likely to get at a big box store).

There were some people giving away free amps and other stuff they had lying around. Maybe someone can donate something to your project.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Well Guys, I guess I will be buying two amps. How is that going to affect the battery? I would build a enclosure myself but I'm not exactly good with wood these days. I can't keep my hands steady anymore. I shake pretty bad, so I was going to go to a shop and get someone to wire it up for me.



> Originally Posted by NOFATTYS View Post
> Since no one else said it...let me thank you for your sons willingness to risk his life in Iraq. While I dont support the war, being a vet myself, I do wholeheartedly support the troops that get stuck over there. Thank You
> Yeah, that's kinda why I bothered to put that much thought into this. It's a nice thing you are doing for him.


Thank you, and I'm sure he would appreciates all the kind words


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Just because you buy a 2000w amp, doesn't mean it sucks 2000w all the time. I'm sure the truck will put out enough power for this system. Unless he has playing a constant 30hz test tone through his sub, he will never use half that power for more than a split second. Eventually he might need an upgraded battery, but don't worry about it now.

There may be someone in NC who can fab a box for you. It doesn't take long and it doesn't cost much unless you start doing fiberglass.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Maybe we could put together some sort of donation of unused (not being used at this time) If it will fit and meet your standards I will forgo the sale of my sub in the classified section and donate my kicker solo classic 12d4. It uses a small box and will rattle your teeth. It sounds pretty decent as well. Please post a pic of your son in uniform. I think it will help get this thing going. We could call it a diyma pimp my veteran ride!


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

I agree, I think this is awesome what he is doing for his son, but that we really need to band together to help him put together the best system he can for his budget. It'd be really easy to blow $1100 on some mediocre crap when he could have put in an AMAZING system (my system cost me well under a grand and I think it smokes anything you could get that is mass marketed for the price) We need local members with a little bit of spare time to help him get this installed right too!

Here's my take on equipment to meet the budget:

First things first, Wiring – 

Knuconceptz Kolusus Flex kit – *$109*
Knukonceptz product detail for **NEW** KOLOSSUS FLEX 0 GAUGE DUAL AMP POWER KIT

Klear Kable Blue 16 Gauge Speaker Wire x 40 *$10* (I always like to have a little extra)
Knukonceptz product detail for KLEAR KABLE BLUE 16 GAUGE SPEAKER WIRE

Klear Kable Blue 12 Gauge Speaker Wire x 10 *$5.00*
Knukonceptz product detail for KLEAR KABLE BLUE 12 GAUGE SPEAKER WIRE

I've used Knu, good quality, great prices.

Stinger 12' RCA Interconnects, 2 - *$12+shipping*, or order three and run them all back for future expandability for $18+shipping
http://www.darvex.com/SPI2112/Stinger+12+RCA+Interconnects.html

Head unit, 
We all love the 9887, it offers everything anyone could ever really need. If this isn’t a high priority, we could knock a hundy or so off here and get a nice m idle of the road HU.

CDA 9887 – *$285 shipped*
New Alpine CDA-9887 Car CD/ MP3 Player CDA9887 RECEIVER - eBay (item 390094209213 end time Sep-24-09 23:30:28 PDT)

Amps, As mentioned before, for the power, these are a steal!

Clarion DPX2251 2-channel car amplifier* $140*
Clarion DPX2251 2-channel car amplifier — 180 watts x 2 at Crutchfield Outlet

Clarion DPX11551 Mono subwoofer amplifier *$199*
Clarion DPX11551 Mono subwoofer amplifier — 1550 watts x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com

Front Speakers: I don’t know that the Type-X pro’s are totally nec in this situation, the Refs are probably more than sufficient. 

Alpine Type-X ref – *$190 shipped*
ALPINE SPX-17REF 6.5" TYPE X COMPONENT CAR SPEAKERS/6x8 - eBay (item 220401784799 end time Sep-20-09 08:14:21 PDT)

Subwoofer

Take up rexroadj on his very generous offer on the Kicker sub, and build or/have a member here build you an enclosure (I'd be willing to build one for you for the cost of materials and shipping, we'd just need a plan first (I've done this before)

Now we've come in at your budget with a system that will sound fantastic, as well as have the possibility to be expanded in the future (more subs, active processing, etc,)

I know there's no sound deadening here, But that is something that another 100 dollars or so could easily take care of.

Wish I lived in Charlotte so I could help with the install


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

You asked here are the pictures of my son. Here is a picture of the HU in his truck, It has a 6disk changer so I'm not sure if it will affect anything. He won't be using it anyway he has one of those ipods 18gb things.


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## 240sxguy (May 28, 2009)

I have some brand new distribution blocks and side post battery terminals I would gladly ship to you for free to help make this happen. 

Evan


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Now were talking guys!!! lets see what else we can come up with.....We all know that we have tons of S$!T around that we can spare to show our appreciation to our country's finest! Personaly I think this could be a nice project and be some great PR. for the forum (not that its needed)


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

So where is Ant to kick in a free door kit of Damplifier?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I might have some extra monster xln pro 4 channel rca's as well. (yeah the ones that are like 0 guage. Not really, but they are wicked thick) I think they are 17 feet?


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

I have a few distros and some RCA's I can kick in


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Wow!! This sounds like it's coming together nicely 

I wish I had something laying around to help out :/ I think there's a few NC members that are pretty knowledgeable. I think Jacob from Sundown is from NC too?


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## 240sxguy (May 28, 2009)

I do have some used monster RCA's as well that I had forgotten about. I have some micros and some other ones as well.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

so we should pick a deck out that has ipod integration.

also Brechin, Post you address so we can start sending you supplies that we donate, unless you just want us to send you a private message then that works to.


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## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

I have a like new stinger fuse holder that I would be happy to donate. Also have a Rockford punch 150S amplifier that could run some door speakers. 










It is about 40w x 2 at 4 ohm and 75 x 2 at 2 ohm.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Wow, I wish my dad had ANY interest in my car audio dealings... props to you.. !!! 

We've also had donation systems put together here...!! 

It's a great feeling when the DIYMA community actually comes TOGETHER on something.... most times it seems people are trying to rip the place apart.. lol.. 

I will poke around and see if I have anything... I know I have various power cabling hangin about... I don't know what lengths though..


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Well so this is what I'm thinking now....

Sub - Unless I can get rexroad's Classic
Parts-Express.comayton TIT320C-4 12" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm | subwoofer 12" subwoofer tit320c-4 titanic mkii titanic dayton titanic 12" woofer titaSub-41108

Sub Amp
Clarion DPX2251 2-channel car amplifier &#151; 180 watts x 2 at Crutchfield Outlet

2 pair of Speakers - Reason for sticking to 6x8 makes it a simple in and out change without having to get mounting accessories etc...Still looking for better speakers as long as they are about 130$ for both sets. 
Polk Audio db571 5" x 7" Speakers Car Speakers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

4 Tweeters
Polk Audio db1001 Tweeters Car Speakers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

Speaker Amp is still to be determined. Maybe I can find a better set of speakers for a decent 4 channel amp. Most I want to spend on of this is 200.00


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## 240sxguy (May 28, 2009)

I think we need to find out what is going to be available, then put together a diagram of sorts so he dosent end up with 30 distros etc...


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

As I said earlier I am fine donating my sub. I just need some time to take out my front seats, undo the center console and get the solo out and put my NAK in. Might be a couple weeks. But I am more then happy to donate to the cause!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

That sub amp aint gonna work on the solo though!


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## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

I would stay away from all of the extra tweeters. That will just muddy up the high frequency range and make vocals unintelligible. It would be better to go with midbass in the stock location and seperate tweets if seperate tweets are wanted, but you definitely don't want tweets in the full range speakers AND extra tweets on top of that. Keep it simple for better sound.


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## BCF150 (Jan 18, 2008)

Brechin, what are your plans for mounting the sub? I stated earlier that only shallow mount subs will work under the seat (ex. Jl 13-TW5, SI BM12). You cannot fit a full size 12" sub under that seat. Now, you can build an enclosure that will sit on the rear floor or build out the center console to be able to mount the 12. 

I just want you to keep in mind where you're going to mount stuff and take into consideration the product dimensions. A truck is not as easy as a car with a trunk that you can just toss a box in , you've got to plan where and how it's going to fit.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, I'm looking into building enclosures now. After seeing that post of the supercrew cab I have been inspired to take the back seats out, and build a box that will work with the hump and seating. 

However my son is considering doing two 10's... What would you guys advise him to do?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Two 10"s are extra cost that you don't need. If you don't have room for a 12" that's one thing, but that Titanic will get plenty loud with 600w going to it and it will sound nice to boot.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

I chose that many tweeters because my front door speakers have 1 in each door and I was going to replace them with the ones I picked. Then I was going to Surface mount the other two in the back for the other passengers. What do you think?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Don't worry about mounting round speakers in the hole. It's very simple to do. You can either use a $10 sheet of MDF or a $10 plastic cutting board. You simply trace the old speaker onto the board and then cut it out and also cut out a round hole for the new one. It'll cost you $10 and take 15 minutes. You have SOOO much more selection when you go round. If you go round, get the RSDs I guess.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Brechin said:


> I chose that many tweeters because my front door speakers have 1 in each door and I was going to replace them with the ones I picked. Then I was going to Surface mount the other two in the back for the other passengers. What do you think?


If you plan to simply rewire the new tweeters in place of the existing ones, you need to check the impedance of the stock tweeters. Sometimes manufactures can use funky drivers. If they used an 8 ohm tweeter and you replace it with a 4 ohm tweeter, it will be twice as loud and sound awful.

Be careful when switching things out like this. The same is true of the woofers. If you are not careful, you can make it sound 10x worse than it does now. Think of impedance as how hard the amp has to work to push the speaker. You need to match the ratio of what you get to what you have now or you throw everything out of whack.


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

Many F150 owners go with a Fox Acoustics prefab box as they have over 6" of mounting depth. Personally I would do one of those, and put two Dayton HO 10s in there. All together would be like $300.

here's the link to the Fox box - http://www.foxacoustics.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=25


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

how about this HU?

Clarion CZ109 All In-Dash Car Stereo Receivers Car Stereo Receivers and Head Units Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

From my experience, the 3.5 mm jack doesn't compare to a USB connection for sound quality. I'd look for a head unit that allows direct connection of his iPod via USB.


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## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

Brechin said:


> how about this HU?
> 
> Clarion CZ109 All In-Dash Car Stereo Receivers Car Stereo Receivers and Head Units Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix


in a word... No. You gotta do better than that with an $1100 budget.. At least push your head unit to $200.. which might get you some mid range quality.


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## ogg (Oct 13, 2007)

Pioneer Premier DEH-P510UB (dehp510ub) All In-Dash Car Stereo Receivers Car Stereo Receivers and Head Units Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Ok guys, everything you guys have told me has helped quite a bit such as what to look for etc... My son was saying oh don't get the Dayton I've never heard of them etc... So I said Ok... So I asked him what he liked and he told me to do w/e I want just get some name brand stuff with warranty's. 

So I did some heavy google searches and board searches on what you guys like alot. What others say about differerent products and such... While staying inside of my 1100$ limit I managed to find this stuff. 


Sub - 257.95$ NEW ALPINE SWX-1243D 12 " CAR AUDIO SUBWOOFER SPEAKER - eBay (item 270457468240 end time Sep-23-09 13:11:48 PDT)

Amp 199.99

Clarion DPX11551 Mono subwoofer amplifier — 1550 watts x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com 

Speakers 4 for 126.00
Polk Audio db571 5"x7" Car Speaker 2-Way 180W Brand New - eBay (item 260474020059 end time Oct-07-09 21:01:34 PDT) 

HU 149.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/KENWOOD-KDC-BT7...vers?hash=item5635426dd0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Box 239.99 http://cgi.ebay.com/MTX-ThunderForm-FORD-F150-Super-Crew-Box-with-FREE-Sub_W0QQitemZ160340308941QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255506f3cd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Only thing I'm missing is a 4channel 60 watt RMS amp, wiring and box... The speakers come with built on tweeters. I do believe the speakers listed above work at 4ohms. As thats what he wants now to get more SQ. He said his sub will be plenty loud at 700watt RMS. I'm just afraid the tweeters are going to be below standard. The Box my son doesn't want me to build he said to just get the one listed above . If anyone has some extra RCA jacks, and wiring stuff (I have no clue where to begin with that stuff) I will be more than happy to buy them off you and pay for shipping. Push comes to shove if I feel like the highs are too sloppy, I will just put the speakers in my car, and get him some better ones. Ones without tweeters.... If anyone can put together a better 4 speaker system with external tweeters and a amp to fill in the price gap let me know I'll make the change. 

Grand Total 973.88$ The rest is for a 4way amp
So am I doing good or bad?


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## ogg (Oct 13, 2007)

That sub will never fit in that box, in fact with 8.6" mounting depth it can't go under the seats in that truck without modification. Personally, I would put more money into the font speakers and less into the sub/box. A good set of 6.5" components like the PPI 356CS(~$115) or the Alpine Type X(~$200) would be a worthwhile investment. Bass gets old after a while but he'll still want good SQ.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I had a feeling your son would say that, but trust us, the Dayton will kick the ass of many subs costing twice as much. It's very high quality, better quality than all but the best Alpines. Did you see the warranty? Dayton backs their subs with a 5 year warranty and Parts Express is an authorized distributor. 

You son is like most of us were when we first started. We thought the only good products were the ones that spent all the big bucks in advertising. They're not. The best products are never advertised. They don't have to. People in the know, know.

How about this. You can wire up everything else. You can even hook the stock speakers into the new head unit (you may want to look at double DIN head units so you won't need an adapter). Don't buy the front speakers until he gets back. Have him listen to some and decide what he likes. $63 isn't that much, but if he hates them, it's still $63 wasted. I honestly don't think those Polks will sound very good. You can have everything else finished in the truck and then he can pick out speakers and you can install them in no time flat if the wiring is already in place.

If you are set on 6x8 speakers, at least have a look at these. Polk Momos have a pretty good reputation and it has a real crossover, not just a cheap bass blocker. I would get these over those others any day. http://www.woofersetc.com/p4128/MMC570--Polk-Audio-5-x-7"-2-Way-Coaxial-Speakers.htm


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Brechin said:


> Ok guys, everything you guys have told me has helped quite a bit such as what to look for etc... My son was saying oh don't get the Dayton I've never heard of them etc... So I said Ok... So I asked him what he liked and he told me to do w/e I want just get some name brand stuff with warranty's.


That's a shame, that Dayton is twice the woofer at half the price, its well known and regarded and comes with a 5 year warranty, pretty much better than any other subwoofer you're going to buy (if you go ebay you typically don't get much of a warranty since your purchase is not authorized) I understand how people get caught up in brands etc... on this forum it's more about the sound, and that Dayton (pretty much all Daytons actually) will deliver it in spades. Parts Express is a great company to deal with, and if you did have a warranty issue, it would be dealt with quickly and efficiently. But hey, some people can't get over that it doesn't say alpine on the cone.



> Warranty:
> All products are warranted free from defects in material and workmanship for 5 years from date of purchase (see exceptions below). Warranty does not apply to misuse, abuse, neglect, accident, improper use, etc.
> 
> RETURN PROCESS:
> Call Parts Express to obtain an RA#. Pack merchandise carefully to avoid further damage and complete Return Form on the bottom of the invoice. Record customer and RA numbers on the outside of the box. Ship merchandise back to Parts Express prepaid.


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## phxgold (May 29, 2009)

Had an f150 sound deadening is a MUST damp pro everything inside the cabin! i say a 12" dayton under the rear seat will hit his lows.
i just sold some polk momo comps laste week widh you would have posted this then I would have sent them to you.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

ogg said:


> That sub will never fit in that box, in fact with 8.6" mounting depth it can't go under the seats in that truck without modification. Personally, I would put more money into the font speakers and less into the sub/box. A good set of 6.5" components like the PPI 356CS(~$115) or the Alpine Type X(~$200) would be a worthwhile investment. Bass gets old after a while but he'll still want good SQ.


Well what subs can fit in that box?

I will inform him of this problem of matching a sub to the box. See if he changes his opinion then. I myself am thinking about buying the dayton 350 for my home surround sound. I will have to do some more searching it seems. So I guess I'm going to be stuck with one REALLY REALLY good 10'' sub. 



> That's a shame, that Dayton is twice the woofer at half the price, its well known and regarded and comes with a 5 year warranty, pretty much better than any other subwoofer you're going to buy (if you go ebay you typically don't get much of a warranty since your purchase is not authorized) I understand how people get caught up in brands etc... on this forum it's more about the sound, and that Dayton (pretty much all Daytons actually) will deliver it in spades. Parts Express is a great company to deal with, and if you did have a warranty issue, it would be dealt with quickly and efficiently. But hey, some people can't get over that it doesn't say alpine on the cone.


I will also inform my son of this. I think I can send him some links and get him to change his opinion of Dayton. 



> How about this. You can wire up everything else. You can even hook the stock speakers into the new head unit (you may want to look at double DIN head units so you won't need an adapter). Don't buy the front speakers until he gets back. Have him listen to some and decide what he likes. $63 isn't that much, but if he hates them, it's still $63 wasted. I honestly don't think those Polks will sound very good. You can have everything else finished in the truck and then he can pick out speakers and you can install them in no time flat if the wiring is already in place.


I don't get the double din adapter thing? Is the HU in his truck not a single din?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

The big selling point for your son might be that this is DO IT YOURSELF  Meaning we have lots of solid experience backed with members who are in the industry, sound engineers, or just hobbyists. It's a cornucopia of knowledge!!


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

It's called a "double din" size. And I agree with these guys: Start with sound deadening and the best quality front speakers as your budget can afford. Dayton is very good.

This headunit would work fine - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130P8000BT/Pioneer-FH-P8000BT.html?showAll=Y&tp=5684
That Clarion 1151 is a steal. Good choice.
This sub would work great in that f150 box - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-462

So have you decided if you want to do the work of installing separate component speakers or just buy a component set that is easier to install and set up?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Yes, the truck has a double DIN sized head unit. If you take it out, you will need something to take up the other half of the space, or you could look at double DIN units like this one (It would look really sweet in his glossy black dash).

FH-P8000BT - Pioneer CD Reciever with Bluetooth Capability

Seriously though, the stock head unit doesn't look that bad. It has a 6 disc changer, it plays MP3s...it actually looks like a halfway decent unit. You aren't really getting anything better unless you spend over $250ish. You might as well keep the stock unit and really invest in some better front speakers. 

*****************************************************************************************
NEW GAME PLAN

How about this? Keep the stock head unit. Get a second Clarion amp (the $140 one). Use the front speaker wires out of the stock unit for that amp and use it to power some really nice front speakers. Keep the rear speakers exactly as they are and keep them powered from the stock head unit. That way he can use the fader to power them if he has passengers, but I can almost guarantee he will prefer having just one really nice set of speakers up front only. You get so little from the rear speakers anyway, that it's really not that important to get the same kind. Just keep the stock ones. If you keep the stock head unit, the extra amp is already paid for right there. Spend the extra money that you would have spent on the rear speakers and get a really nice front pair.


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Brechin, trust these guys. This is one of the best places "in the world" to find people who really... know their stuff about car audio. You came here for a reason and that is to get the best advice, so you can give your son the very... best car/truck audio system for the money. 

It takes a-lot-of knowledge/preparation/planning to make a good system as you are starting to find-out. You told us what your son is looking for, so now it's time to put this thing in the hands of the pro's to configure the best system, and best products specifically for his truck.

I respect you for what you are doing for your son. Having a nice sounding system is priceless... Out of love, my mother bought me my 1st. system. I can just imagine how appreciative he will be.


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## huckorris (Sep 2, 2009)

Just tell your son that people are volunteering to donate nice equipment and accessories out of their appreciation and goodness of their hearts. That ought to count for a bit of trust.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Well I'm paying for the thing so I guess he is going to either like it or replace it.... 

So my final decision on the subs are if he don't like them he can get a new one and I'll use them for my home stereo.

2 Dayton 10'' MKIII - 276.00$
Parts-Express.comayton TIT280C-4 10" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm | subwoofer 10" subwoofer tit280c-4 titanic mkii titanic dayton titanic 10" woofer titaSub-41108

However I don't think you can run them at 2ohms. Because I cannot find a monoblock amp at 8ohms... If I'm not mistaken the calculation works like this (told you I don't understand things in the scientific way) 1 Channel can only hold 4ohms. Any more than 4ohms your killing the amp. So if I bought two of these subs I would have to buy two amps?

BOX 189.00 with the extra 5/8 cut and shipping. 
Ford F-150 SuperCrew Cab 04-08 Dual Subwoofer Box - Subwoofer Box | Subwoofer Enclosures | Car Subwoofer Boxes and Truck Subwoofer Boxes at SuperCrewSound

So this is the HU I'm looking at now. His stock one doesn't have many EQ settings so its not really that good. 
Kenwood DPX503 (DPX-503) All In-Dash Car Stereo Receivers Car Stereo Receivers and Head Units Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

which brings me to a grand total of 534.00$ I don't know if I have to worry about tweeters or not so.

My final questions are. Does anyone know of a amp that will power both subs at their MAX RMS but not so powerful it will blow them if it peaks? Can someone fill in the blanks for me with the best possible speakers 6x8 and a Amp to power them for less than or equal to $300


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Hey Mooble thats a great Idea I wish I could type faster I didn't even see what you said till now. So many new posts before I get done with mine. 

I think that's a great Idea. Power the two front speakers, and if later down the road he wants more, he can do so. So... 

The plan now is, keep the box, and the subs. Get your HU because well it would simply look better in his truck. Get two really bad mama jamma speakers in the front. I will need some help with that if someone can throw some names out there for me. Get the 140$ clarion amp to match... give me a minute and I will do the math to see how much we have to work with

That brings us to a grand total of... (keep in mind thats both the clarion amps, two daytons 10'', 1box and the Pioneer 8000BT HU)

1064.00$ 

So I guess I can spend 1200$ to get those kick ass speakers.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

Any amp can run a higher ohm rating, their power output just goes down. Think of it this way, when there isnt a speaker connected and the amp is on with a signal it sees an infinite ohm load so it puts out zero watts. Its usually ~ 1/2 the power at 4 ohms. It only hurts the amp when you go down in ohms. Im not sure that clarion can run at 1 ohm but it sure does at 2 ohms and puts out around 1500 watts rms. That will be plenty for the two daytons.


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## hlbbig69 (Sep 15, 2009)

nice thread very good info on the selection of door speakers


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## huckorris (Sep 2, 2009)

Those daytons are rated at 400 watts rms each. A 1000 watt or that Clarion would be great because having extra watts (headroom) doesn't make the amp work too hard at loud volumes and the signal stays clean.

What might you get donated so far?


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Which do you guys like better? Like all in all including from the driver to the tweeter to the crossover which is the better buy? 

JL Audio TR570-CXi Evolution&#153; TR Series 5"x7" 2-way car speakers Also fit 6"x8" openings at Crutchfield.com

or

MMC570 - Polk Audio 5 x 7" 2 Way Coaxial Speakers


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

I like the Pioneer. You get an eq and Ipod control.
My 2 cents;

Head unit: $279.99 The one you like, the Pioneer FH-P80000BT as mentioned;

FH-P8000BT - Pioneer CD Reciever with Bluetooth Capability

AMP: $219.99 PowerBass ASA 1100.5 (ASA1100.5) (asa11005) 5-Channel or more Amps Car Amplifiers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

Front speakers: $99.99 Precision Power PPI 355CS 5-1/4" Component Systems Car Speakers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

Speaker adapters: $14.99 Universal 6"x8" to 5-1/4" Bracket Speaker adapter plates at Crutchfield.com

Subwoofer: $169.99 Boston Acoustics G312-4 (g3124) 12" Subwoofers Car Subwoofers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

Around $785

You can fit a subwoofer enclosure on that tranny hump no problem. Also, if your son wants to power the rear door speakers, he can add another amp later with better speakers in the rear doors cause that Pioneer deck has the 3rd. set of pre-outs.

Good luck with your sq (sound quality) quest.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

A lot of people here would buy individual speakers and crossovers, custom build mounting surfaces, and tune it themselves. But if that's not your thing then, I concur with the PPI door speakers, but the 6 1/2" makes more sense- Precision Power PPI 356CS 6-1/2" Component Systems Car Speakers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

Just make sure you get an amp that powers them accordingly. Like the Clarion 2251.

BTW: The f150 box might need some bracing as a lot of prefab boxes are slapped together, even expensive ones. And the box has .6 cu. ft. volume per sub, and that's not including the space the sub takes up. So, your only looking at .5 cu. ft. or so with the sub installed. Can someone here verify that the MK III is what will work best in that enclosure?


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## ogg (Oct 13, 2007)

schmiddr2 said:


> BTW: The f150 box might need some bracing as a lot of prefab boxes are slapped together, even expensive ones. And the box has .6 cu. ft. volume per sub, and that's not including the space the sub takes up. So, your only looking at .5 cu. ft. or so with the sub installed. *Can someone here verify that the MK III is what will work best in that enclosure?*


I'm pretty sure it won't, in a box that small the Dayton Reference HO would be a better choice than the titanic.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Brechin said:


> 2 Dayton 10'' MKIII - 276.00$
> Parts-Express.comayton TIT280C-4 10" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm | subwoofer 10" subwoofer tit280c-4 titanic mkii titanic dayton titanic 10" woofer titaSub-41108
> 
> However I don't think you can run them at 2ohms. Because I cannot find a monoblock amp at 8ohms... If I'm not mistaken the calculation works like this (told you I don't understand things in the scientific way) 1 Channel can only hold 4ohms. Any more than 4ohms your killing the amp. So if I bought two of these subs I would have to buy two amps?


With two of those Daytons you can either double or halve the impedance. So you either get a 2 ohm load or an 8 ohm load. Any amp can run a higher load (you just get less power from it), but you can't run below the lowest stable load recommendation for the amp (you will get more power for a while and then the amp will die because it's like redlining your engine). The $140 Clarion is not stable below 4 ohms when both channels are bridged so that amp can't run two of those Daytons. You could run it at 8 ohms, but you would then not get enough power to move those Daytons properly. If you got the more powerful Clarion amp you would have all the power in the world and you could even run them at 8 ohms if you wanted or run them at 2 ohms (but keep the gains on the amp down or you risk overpowering the Daytons).

Normally I would say to look at a different amp so that you weren't wasting power, but you won't find many quality amps for less than $200 so just get it and you'll have power in reserve if you ever want bigger subs.


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## Deton Nation (Jul 3, 2009)

HEy thats a really nice thing to do... you must be a great dad.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Reading over Mooble's last post...

I'm not so sure you need two subs in a truck. Don't trucks have pretty good cabin gain vs. vehicles/subs in trunks?

Maybe these amps will help the cause?....

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hot-deals/59405-awesome-comp-set-cheap-must-buy-9.html#post766760


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Well since it is clear the sub situation has taken a different turn (great sub choice by the way, there is no way someone would not be more then pleased by them!) I am putting my sub towards a trade for an item that I am buying. Best of luck with the system. Be sure to thank your son for me!


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

Guys, you're still not getting the mounting depth issue (if this is planned to go under the rear seat still). I drive an 06 F150 Supercrew. I know from experience if you are building your own box, you're limited to a maximum of 5 inches of mounting depth (if you're lucky), and if you go with a prefab, you can get around 6. ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM without lifting the seat, or taking the metal seat frame out from the seat bottom. That's why I recommended the Fox box with 2 Dayton HOs. Don't have to use "shallow" woofers, and you still get good quality sub bass for around $300 (excluding the amp).


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

bsvrs said:


> Guys, you're still not getting the mounting depth issue (if this is planned to go under the rear seat still). I drive an 06 F150 Supercrew. I know from experience if you are building your own box, you're limited to a maximum of 5 inches of mounting depth (if you're lucky), and if you go with a prefab, you can get around 6. ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM without lifting the seat, or taking the metal seat frame out from the seat bottom. That's why I recommended the Fox box with 2 Dayton HOs. Don't have to use "shallow" woofers, and you still get good quality sub bass for around $300 (excluding the amp).


Yeah the space in the box I picked out will install but I'm still sketchy about it fitting. What did you have to do to get your fox box installed?

That 140$ Clarion is not the amp going to power my subs the 200.00$ amp is. The 140$ one is specifically for the front door speakers. 

My plan for the box --- IF I build it. Rear facing subs under the back seat.
I should have plenty of room to make them face the rear as long as the subs cut out isn't under the seat. Make sure it is past the seat to the rear. What do you think? I'm no paint mechanics but this is kinda what I'm thinking.


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

If you put the subs under the seat, they either have to be upfiring or downfiring; there is no way around it. There simply is not much room at all to work with..

I built my own box for a single 10 under the drivers side of the rear seat, but if I had to go over the hump as well, I'd probably just buy a pre-fab. There isn't much room for error under those seats.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Update on the products....

SUB Amp -- Clarion DPX11551 Mono subwoofer amplifier — 1550 watts x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com

Box -- http://www.foxacoustics.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F150-210-04

SUB -- Parts-Express.comayton RSS265HO-4 10" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 Ohm | subwoofer rss265h0-4 10" subwoofer dayton reference rs sub dayton loudspeaker reference-22008

Speaker Amp -- GM-5400T - Pioneer 2 Channel 760W Amplifier

Speakers -- I hear these come with good crossovers and all around great speakers. JL Audio TR570-CXi Evolution™ TR Series 5"x7" 2-way car speakers Also fit 6"x8" openings at Crutchfield.com

HU -- FH-P8000BT - Pioneer CD Reciever with Bluetooth Capability

Grand Total ==
1081.54.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I wouldn't worry so much about the amp for the front speakers. There are plenty more in the same price range, but that sub amp is definitely a bargain. It would have looked cool to have the same style amp, but most of us run different brands anyway.

Xa175.2 - Cadence 2 Channel 175 Watt Class AB Stereo Amplifier

KAC-7204 - Kenwood 2-channel 1000 Watt Amplifier

GM-5400T - Pioneer 2 Channel 760W Amplifier

RUB2.250 - Soundstream 2 Ch. 250 Watt RMS Rubicon Series A/B Class Amplifier


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm gonna pick up the pioneer after looking at the specs its slightly better than the rest on paper for the same price. Its doesn't have to be flashy as my amps are going to be hidden either in the seats or under the front seats.

Great now all I need is wiring and things of that nature... If anyone knows how I would have to hook all that up let me know how I would have to do it. I mean I need it in baby steps, Barney style. Like what goes to what, and I still don't understand parallel and series so please don't give me an answer like that lol. Like the back of my HU has Preamp outputs so those would go to my amps? Then amps to the subs and to the crossovers. Then crossovers to the drivers? Power post to amps. and I have no clue how to ground it... So is that the basic layout of how to wire these things. Once I get that figured out you can baby walk me through the more advanced stuff like series and parallel.

Never mind what parallel and series are this explained it to me quite well
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/speaker.html


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## sl33py (Apr 1, 2009)

Brechin - first of all thanks to your son for serving. Regardless of what party does what, or why we are there, i respect those that serve our country's call.

You are an awesome Dad! 

I am a noob too, but think you need to reconsider the 5x7/6x8 speakers. There is a simple replacement piece that lets you mount a 6 1/2" or 6 3/4" round speaker. Those are supposed to be WAY better. Several have been suggested, and if you are really just doing the front doors it should sound great w/ a good amp pushing them.

Second - maybe there is someone local to help w/ your install? Throw in a door kit of Damplifier and your son will be blown away! 

I'll let someone layout the install (what goes from/to where).

Good luck!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Brechin said:


> Great now all I need is wiring and things of that nature... If anyone knows how I would have to hook all that up let me know how I would have to do it. I mean I need it in baby steps, Barney style. Like what goes to what, and I still don't understand parallel and series so please don't give me an answer like that lol. Like the back of my HU has Preamp outputs so those would go to my amps? Then amps to the subs and to the crossovers. Then crossovers to the drivers? Power post to amps. and I have no clue how to ground it... So is that the basic layout of how to wire these things. Once I get that figured out you can baby walk me through the more advanced stuff like series and parallel.
> Shavano Music Online - Basics of wiring Speakers


You will want one of these Harness - American International Stereo Installation Wiring Harness Adaptor

That will allow you to directly plug your new head unit into the stock wiring. Most of the time you can use the stock wiring for power, ground, etc. I see no reason why you couldn't. The harness will allow you to do that effortlessly.

Your new head unit will have 6 RCA output jacks I think. The front ones will go to that amp. The sub outputs will go to the sub amp via RCA interconnects. The one difference is that you will wire the rear speaker output from the head unit directly into the existing harness. That way the head unit's amp will power the rear speakers. That means one pair of RCA jacks on the head unit won't be used. 

***Important caveat*** Check with someone who has the same vehicle. Sometimes the signal is fed to another amp before it's sent to the speakers. If this is the case, you won't use the harness but will run wires from those speaker level outputs on the head unit to the speakers directly. 

As far as the amps go, you will have a wire that comes out of the head unit for remote power. That goes into the remote terminals on both amps (just split it at some point). You don't want to mess around with power with those amps. Run 1/0 gauge wire directly from the positive battery terminal to a distribution block near the amps. Wire both amps to that. For grounding, also use 1/0 wire and use a bolt or other secure source to mount it to the frame of the truck. Make sure you have a good, paint-free connection. Run the grounds from both amps to that same spot. 

People seemed willing to donate most of the stuff you will need. It's not hard to hook up. Don't lose any sleep over it. I used to be up all night before a big installation worrying about how to get it done. That's silly. It really isn't hard at all.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Ok if anyone has some extra wire laying around, a distribution block, RCA plugs, wiring harness adapter that you want to get rid of for cheap or for free post it up here. I will pay all costs... Just reply to this thread and I will send you a pm. 

Everyone who has helped thank you so much for helping me with this. I know my son will be pleased when he gets back. He will be home sometime in Jan. We don't have a set day yet. So in the mean time I will try and build some custom enclosures to reach optimum sound for his new subs. So lots of trial and error will be happening lol. 

Again, thank you all!

Mooble you have been a extremely good help!


Ok I think this will be my final question. Does anyone know of a tutorial somewhere that I can take the back of the front seats off. Then mount my Amps to it, and finally close it back up? Or would I have to reupholster it before completion? If so where could I tuck them away?


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

> Ok I think this will be my final question


You'll be back with more, trust me  PM me I have a (1) 0/1in to (4) 4/8 out distro if you need it.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

MaXaZoR said:


> You'll be back with more, trust me  PM me I have a (1) 0/1in to (4) 4/8 out distro if you need it.



hmm I don't know if I need it someone tell me if I need it please lol


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Why are you choosing to go with two separate amps instead of one 5 channel, for cheaper, it makes for easier installation and you get 2 extra channels?... 

Are you going with those JL 6x8's? IMO, it's a shame.

Good luck!


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

nope I'm going for the Polk momo's. Well lmao because I already bought the clarion... I did some searching and it was 200$ off everywhere else. So I HAD to get it then or not at all.


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

If you're planning on putting the amps under the front seats they will have to be awfully small.. You can mount them behind the back seat on the back wall of the cab but it involves some work.


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Brechin said:


> nope I'm going for the Polk momo's. Well lmao because I already bought the clarion... I did some searching and it was 200$ off everywhere else. So I HAD to get it then or not at all.


Whew! I thought you going to make a big mistake buying 6x8's. Yes, that Clarion is a steal of a deal!


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

bsvrs said:


> If you're planning on putting the amps under the front seats they will have to be awfully small.. You can mount them behind the back seat on the back wall of the cab but it involves some work.


I'm not sure what the space is under the seats of his son's truck. But, in my wife's "little" Corolla she fits an amp that is 16in. long... So, I feel that the Clarion amp being just 1 1/2in. longer should be no problem to fit in that large truck.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Out of curiosity where do you guys hide your wires when your done? under the carpet? I was thinking of running it along the roof so I wouldn't have to pull the carpet up.


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## sqoverspl (Aug 17, 2009)

Dont go through the roof. The carpet is much easier and better for the car. Just pull up the trim and hide it there.


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Someone please find a thread with some pics of an amp properly installed under the seat, and pics of that install process. I looked and couldn't find any, but I know someone here can or has some pics already.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

So what pieces are you still missing for your install sir? I have some various pieces laying around if you need anything else. Is there a list of what has already been donated?

Zach


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

all I am missing now is wires, distro's, fuses, and RCA Jacks


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## djknowledge (Feb 12, 2009)

i would get 
1.re audio sex 12 for the sub. about 200 on ebay. 
2.us amps xt4000de mono amp for the sub. about 200 on ebay.
3. set of decent components for the front stage. between 150-250
4. maybe a us amps xt1600.4 4 channel again 200 on ebay lol
5. a set of components for the rear for rear fill or if he jusrt wanted to impress people. dont really have to go this route unless going for sheer loudness. or you can skip buying these and run the fronts active.
6. pioneer avh4000 headunit. ebay it for like 350 new.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Brechin said:


> all I am missing now is wires, distro's, fuses, and RCA Jacks


Just shoot me a PM with what wires/RCA's you need. I will gladly look over my spare stuff and ship whatever I have off to you.

Also, thank your son for all of us. I was medically retired from active duty last March after 10 years of service. I always appreciate the sacrifices that my brothers in arms make for our country.

Zach


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

> Also, thank your son for all of us. I was medically retired from active duty last March after 10 years of service. I always appreciate the sacrifices that my brothers in arms make for our country.


I will do and thank you for your service.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I don't post here much but I wish I would've seen this sooner as I just sold a bunch of stuff. I would gladly donate my remaining 2 lightly used Infinity Kappa 6.5" and tweeters but I doubt you would want them.

I thank your son for his service. My father is in Baghdad with the State Department, finally coming home this November after 3 years.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Good to hear about your dad coming home I bet you can't wait! I can't wait for my son to get home either. I have to take him fishing! Anyhow I will be sure to give him everyones kind words


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

What subs did you buy? They can be wired parallel, serial, or a combination of both.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Daytons HO's


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Each HO is 4 Ohm. Wired this way makes a 2 Ohm load. The 1151 produces 1550 watts RMS at a 2 Ohm load. The HO's consume 1200 watts RMS per pair. Should be perfect.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> Each HO is 4 Ohm. Wired this way makes a 2 Ohm load. The 1151 produces 1550 watts RMS at a 2 Ohm load. The HO's consume 1200 watts RMS per pair. Should be perfect.


Well is it possible to wire it at 4ohms?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Two SVC 4 Ohm speakers can make 2 or 8 Ohm. Even if they could become 4 Ohm total the amp would only produce 850 watts RMS and would not survive a lot of loud playing time. You want them at 2 Ohm!

I will look through my box of install stuff and see whats left. I have been trying to reduce how much stuff I keep laying around.


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

Be sure to keep the gain low on the sub amp. That box has enough airspace that the Daytons shouldn't need a ton of power; definitely not all 1500 watts. Plus they would completely drown out your front stage and probably start distorting with all that amp could give them.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> Two SVC 4 Ohm speakers can make 2 or 8 Ohm. Even if they could become 4 Ohm total the amp would only produce 850 watts RMS and would not survive a lot of loud playing time. You want them at 2 Ohm!
> 
> I will look through my box of install stuff and see whats left. I have been trying to reduce how much stuff I keep laying around.



That makes things alot easier I thought they were dual voice coils.


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## tdiantonio (May 8, 2007)

I just saw this thread. I think what you are doing is awesome and it is great that your son is serving. I would like to help.

I can donate 25 ft of red Streetwires 4 ga ultraflow cable and a set of
Streetwires Zero Noise "7" 6-Channel RCA cables, they are 5 Meters in length (16.4 ft). Just send me a pm with your shipping information and i will send them to you. 

Also, did you purchase all of your equipment yet?


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

tdiantonio said:


> I just saw this thread. I think what you are doing is awesome and it is great that your son is serving. I would like to help.
> 
> I can donate 25 ft of red Streetwires 4 ga ultraflow cable and a set of
> Streetwires Zero Noise "7" 6-Channel RCA cables, they are 5 Meters in length (16.4 ft). Just send me a pm with your shipping information and i will send them to you.
> ...



No I haven't purchased it all. I only bought the stuff on sale so far. I have 3 months to get all of it, so I'm waiting for the other stuff to go on sale. I'm sending the PM now!


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Brechin said:


> So i'm 60yrs old and my son is coming back from Iraq and I'm trying to get this entire system for his 2005 F150 super crew cab...
> 
> What I need help with because I'm a complete idiot when it comes to these things is quite simple and I'm sure this post will be moved and I will be the laughing stock of the boards...
> 
> ...


Here's what I would do. Keep in mind that I'm a fan of soundstaging, intelligibility, and dynamics. That doesn't mean that I listen to dainty lil' polite speakers though - I can hit 130DB with ease. My tweeters alone can hit 136DB with minimal distortion.

I like it clean and loud.

As always, these are my _opinions_ and they may not be congruent with others. So take this advice in context of what my goals are for a sound system. There may be other ways to create and excellent system; this is simply the way *I* would do it.

First off, in my car I do everything custom, so the speakers are mounted exactly where I want them, the sub box takes up most of the trunk, and the whole system is far what anyone would consider "practical."

From what you've described, your son wants a system that's practical. Due to that, I'm going to make some recommendations which are going to sound bizarre, but keep in mind, I'm doing this to keep the system from being impractical.

The first problem with the truck is that putting the sub under the seats severely limits the size of the subwoofer. Your son wants a single twelve inch woofer, but there's no way to fit a conventional twelve under the seats. Creating bass in a car is a lot like generating output from an engine. It's all about displacement. A lot of people focus on the size of the cone, but the _stroke_ is just as important. There are twelve inch subs which will fit under the seats, but they're expensive. Even worse, they sacrifice _stroke_ for _bore_. Or as we call it, xmax and SD.

So the first recommendation that I am going to make is to use four 6.5" subwoofers instead of a single 12" subwoofer. The four subs can move more air than a single twelve. It's like using a V8 instead of a inline four.

This is what I would use for the subs:








Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer | subwoofer 6" subwoofer neodynium subwoofer tangband tb speakers tangband-22008

Four of them will set you back $180.

Here's a shallow sub for comparison. It's 10" and it's "stroke" is virtually identical. Because of the bigger cone, two of these will give you as much output as four of the subs I've recommended. But they'll cost you $400, and I think the money is better spent elsewhere. If you had a bigger budget, I might recommend something different.










For the box, someone recommended this:

http://www.foxacoustics.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=25

Looks good to me, and affordable. At $120 for the box, and $180 for the woofers, we're up to $300.

The midrange is the most critical part of creating an excellent speaker. If you screw up the midrange, the entire system will sound unlistenable. I see a lot of people invest big bucks in subs and tweeters, yet these are the easiest frequencies to reproduce. The midrange is frequently overlooked. In my car I've literally spent months getting the midrange to sound correct.

I don't think you want to spend the next few months of your life obsessing over midrange performance, so I am going to recommend a midrange that makes it easy. These particular midranges have very smooth response which extends to 4khz. These speakers use a special circuit in the voice coil which reduces distortion. This circuit is expensive and rare, but it has an ability to eliminate the harshness and muddiness which plague many midranges. The Dayton speakers which others are recommending have this circuit too; it's a Very Good thing. The reason that I am not recommending the Daytons is that their basket is deep, and their power handling isn't as high. Anyways, I present to you the B&C 8NDL51:








This is going to give you some sticker shock - a pair of these will set you back $320.

B&C 8NDL51 is a lightweight 8" woofer that woofer - B&C Speakers - B&C 8NDL51 neodymium 8" mid-bass speaker for 2 or 3-way systems. B&C 8NDL51 neodymium bass speakers available now.

And the spec sheet:
http://www.bcspeakers.com/PDF/PRD/8NDL51.pdf

That brings us up to $620.

The main reason that I went with the B&C is that it's the only midrange that's this shallow and can take a lot of power. It's 3.5" deep. A pair of these, fed with 200 watts each, will give 126DB.

The reason you need a woofer that's so shallow is that you're going to build some kick panels, like this:








Since the woofer is just 3.5" deep, the kick panels will be a piece of cake. Basically cut a square baffle with a jig saw, cut a hole with a jig saw, screw in the woofer. The build out the edges so the depth is correct. Make sure it's sealed airtight. Is the surface of the F150 flat? If so, just velcro the whole thing to the car. Velcro isolates the woofer vibrations from the rest of the car, like speaker spikes do with subwoofers.

The kick panels will be the trickiest part, let me know if you have questions about that.

The tweeters will go in the A-Pillars, like this:








Conventional tweeters don't get very loud, because they have low efficiency. Conventional tweeters are also a p.i.t.a. to install in the A-Pillars. If you just 'tack' them on, it looks hideous, and it sounds bad too, due to the gap between the tweeter and the pillar.

So what's the solution?

What we need is a tweeter with high efficiency, but also one that's easy to mount. And there's only one option:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-735

The NEO3 is about half an inch thick, but three inches across. Remember what I said about bore and stroke subwoofers? Well the NEO3 is like that too. It's very VERY shallow, but it brings efficiency back because it's nine times bigger than a conventional tweeter.

The key to using the NEO3 will be getting it as close to the windshield as possible. How big are those A-Pillars? If it won't fit, let me know, there are other choices as well. The NEO3 is the best imho. A pair of NEO3 are $110. Be sure to get the mounting cup, it's absolutely critical for making these sound their best.










That brings us to $710.

To power all of this, we're going to use three channels of amplification.

Get yourself a Class D mono sub amp. You should be able to find one for about $150 - $200. Someone mentioned a Clarion? You're going to hook that amp up to TWO of the woofers in the sub box. (Not FOUR, but TWO.) If the amp is "2 ohm stable" you'll wire the woofers in parallel. Use the onboard crossover on the sub to cut the subs over at 80hz or so.

Now get yourself the biggest beefiest two channel amp that you can afford. The minimum I'd recommend is 100watts x 2, but 200watts x 2 would be better. We're going to hang ALL the other speakers off this amp. That means that one of the subs, one of the midranges, and one of the tweeters will all be in parallel on one of the channels.

To do this you will need a passive crossover. I will design that for you if you go this route. The part cost will be about $50 per side.

That brings us to $810, and doesn't include the cost of the amps.

This system is decidedly simpler than what you proposed. The heart of the system are those big beefy midranges up front. Due to their size and their pedigree, you would need eight or even sixteen midranges to equal them. You would be hard-pressed to find another midrange that could keep up. The subs are dimunitive, but there's four of them. To kick out the bass, I have SIX speakers playing below 80hz. That's like having three twelve inch woofers! Not to get too technical, but car stereos often have issues creating the illusion that the bass is "up front", and using six woofers below 80hz fixes that nicely  Also, there are three amplifiers running below 80hz, to maximize output in that octave. The tweeters match nicely, and are an easy install.

Any questions?


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Here's what I would do. Keep in mind that I'm a fan of soundstaging, intelligibility, and dynamics. That doesn't mean that I listen to dainty lil' polite speakers though - I can hit 130DB with ease. My tweeters alone can hit 136DB with minimal distortion.
> 
> I like it clean and loud.
> 
> ...


I love the idea ecspecially with the mid ranges. Only problem is, I already bought the dayton HO's 10'' subs, and that clarion mono amp. I haven't bought anything else though. I'm still waiting on seeing if stuff will go on sale, but if things are going to be modified like you are saying I guess I can order on the 2nd next month. That way I know I can have the job done on time lol. I love the idea with those tweeters. Now my drivers that go in the doors that is also known as midrange correct? It just gets a little confusing for this old man


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I would not recommend ribbon tweeters for you. They require a lot of work to do properly. Pretty much anyone can install dome tweeters with a little help or advice and they will sound decent. If you don't know what you are doing, ribbons will be very disappointing. 

Remember this is someone with little to no car audio experience. While ribbons have their place, I don't think the OP needs to be messing with that level of complexity or thinking about glassing his own kick panel enclosures. For now I would stick to a good coaxial speaker in the door with a real crossover. Your son can always upgrade down the road if he wants.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Brechin said:


> I love the idea ecspecially with the mid ranges. Only problem is, I already bought the dayton HO's 10'' subs, and that clarion mono amp. I haven't bought anything else though. I'm still waiting on seeing if stuff will go on sale, but if things are going to be modified like you are saying I guess I can order on the 2nd next month. That way I know I can have the job done on time lol. I love the idea with those tweeters. Now my drivers that go in the doors that is also known as midrange correct? It just gets a little confusing for this old man


Ack, I should have read the thread all the way through.

One of the reasons I recommended a set of $320 midranges is that the subwoofers are $45 a pop. Basically the midranges in my set up are providing a good 20-30% of the system's bass.

So the Daytons change things.

WHere are you putting them? They won't fit under the seats will they?


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Vega-LE said:


> I'm not sure what the space is under the seats of his son's truck. But, in my wife's "little" Corolla she fits an amp that is 16in. long... So, I feel that the Clarion amp being just 1 1/2in. longer should be no problem to fit in that large truck.


One great thing about the Oregon coast - you can put a huge amp in your car and no one will steal it. Try doing THAT in Seattle...


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Yes they will fit. The Dayton titanics MKIII I originally picked will not, but the HO's however will fit.


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Patrick Bateman said:


> One great thing about the Oregon coast - you can put a huge amp in your car and no one will steal it. Try doing THAT in Seattle...


I used to live in Los Angeles and Las Vegas. I know all too well about having stuff stolen. Thing is, in those places, they break-into your vehicle and steal whatever system you got, even old POS stock stuff.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Brechin said:


> Yes they will fit. The Dayton titanics MKIII I originally picked will not, but the HO's however will fit.


That really makes this a heck of a lot easier. Trying to get a lot of bass out of a 8" tall enclosure isn't easy.

The great thing about using the Daytons is that you don't need an uber-expensive midrange anymore.

The problem with the JL and the Polk midranges that you were considering is that they use a very unsophisticated motor. Car audio companies invest a lot of money in making speakers with flashy looking cones, but all the magic is in the motor. And the motor in the JL is anything but magical.

Here's a speaker with a really nice motor:

Parts-Express.comayton RS150T-8 6" Reference Woofer Truncated Frame | rs150t-8 truncated 6" woofer midbass rs aluminum cone woofer phase plug dayton daySpeakers123008








The difference in sound is an increased in coherency and better intelligibility. Speakers with advanced motors are also to better suited to extract details in music, like backup singers and the attack of percussion. The motor reduces distortion and extends the response too. A set of four of these will set you back a whopping $124.

If you'd prefer to spend more, here is the speaker that spawned the one above. Note that the cone, the phase plug, the frame, the surround, and the motor are virtually identical. It is an exquisite midrange, one of the best. A set of four are $700. If it were my money, I'd buy the Chinese knock-off 










SEAS Excel W12CY-001 (E0021) 4.5" magnesium Cone Woofer from Madisound

Also, the first review on the website is from someone who's also posting in this thread. (Dr Vega)


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

so instead of getting the momo door speakers I picked out I should get a mounting bracket and those mids? Then I would have to get 4 crossovers? The door has a spot for tweeters built on... However i don't think I will be using that hole to place them in. This was my original intention....

2 subs under the rear seat (done)
subs have the crossover so need for crossovers there. 
4 door speakers in the manufactured cut holes in each door. 
4 crossovers for mids to tweeters. 
4 tweeters in each door.

Am I still thinking too many crossovers and too many tweeters for a good sound stage? Or would Actually have to customize where the mids go and not put them in the door?


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Brechin said:


> so instead of getting the momo door speakers I picked out I should get a mounting bracket and those mids? Then I would have to get 4 crossovers? The door has a spot for tweeters built on... However i don't think I will be using that hole to place them in. This was my original intention....
> 
> 2 subs under the rear seat (done)
> subs have the crossover so need for crossovers there.
> ...


If it were my truck, I would cut a piece an MDF ring, bolt the speaker to the ring, then bolt the ring to the truck. This part is critical - even a small leak will kill all the bass completely.

Then I would put the second mid as far forward and as far wide as possible. I know you don't want to build kick panels, but even a basic cube velcro'd under the dash will bring the stage back. Low frequencies are long; you don't even have to aim the speaker or see it for that matter. Just get it as far in front of you, and as far out to the corners as you possibly can.

In my car, there are a set of midranges on the dash, and a second set *under* the dash. One is on top of the dead pedal, the other is tucked next to the a/c unit on the passengers side.

Admittedly, I'm using horns to get their output into the cabin, but even without that piece, it will work.

Picture an enclosure like this, sealed, and tucked under the dash:










Then put the tweeters on the a-pillars.

Don't buy any crossovers. We'll need to design those for you. Off the shelf units won't work.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

If you want to mess around and see what will fit in the truck, the Daytons that I recommened will work pretty well in a cube that measures 7" x 7" x 7". Of course, you could do 7" x 3.5" x 14" or whatever. Just as long as the internal volume equals 214 cubic inches. At this size, the Daytons will play down to 95hz, and probably much lower in the car.

Depending on the depth of the door, and where the window is, it might be worthwhile to build a small sealed box for the doors too. Putting the speakers in a box will raise their power handling, at the expense of low bass. But you'll have tons of bass coming from the subs, so a bump in power handling will be nice.

All of these dimensions assume that you're using 1/2" wood. Preferably good quality MDF or plywood.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Ok, so I need to buy a dremel tool with a diamond blade, and make a MDF ring I'm not sure what you mean by that as earlier you said a square as well can I get a picture of what you mean. I assume you just mean a square cut hole and a circle cut hole to bolt the mids and then to the door


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Brechin said:


> so instead of getting the momo door speakers I picked out I should get a mounting bracket and those mids? Then I would have to get 4 crossovers? The door has a spot for tweeters built on... However i don't think I will be using that hole to place them in. This was my original intention....
> 
> 2 subs under the rear seat (done)
> subs have the crossover so need for crossovers there.
> ...


If it were me, I'd put 2 subs under the rear seat covering 80hz and down. Then I'd use two sets of midranges. One goes in a small cube, using the dimensions I recommended. These cubes are possibly the most important part of the system. They will go as far forward as possible. Look under the dash of the truck - is there somewhere you can safely mount a 7" cube?

If not, is there somewhere you can mount a 6" cube?

And are you comfortable enough with a skil saw to fabricate a cube, glue it up, and cut out a hole for the speaker?

(Sometimes I take it for granted that most people don't like to hassle with fabrication...)


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

This is the real Brechin I'm in Iraq right now. I feel comfortable with it, but honestly I know nothing about fabrication at all, so being able to make kick panels for me will be a hassle, I don'tmind doing it as long as I have someone there with me that know what they are doing and ho to do it. I will do all the work of course but i need to be walked throgh it....


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

Your a cool dad... you said you bought the subs already. The Daytons are great but if you could... I would return them and and get 2 of these..

IMAGE DYNAMICS 10" OEM SUB, SOUND QUALITY SUBWOOFER - eBay (item 120463972608 end time Sep-27-09 18:07:57 PDT)









Good deal with the Clarion amp.. So now your at $350ish with the subs and sub amp... lets save some more $$.. Get this amp for your frontstage:

CERWIN VEGA EXL-400.4 400W 4 CH AMPLIFIER NEW EXL400 - eBay (item 300324102936 end time Oct-17-09 22:33:48 PDT)









Now your at $475ish... I would get the PPI 6.5" components:
PRECISION POWER PPI 356CS 6.5" CAR COMPONENT SPEAKERS - eBay (item 300350054445 end time Oct-21-09 21:47:25 PDT)









Now your at $610... I would get the Pioneer DEH-P880PRS Head Unit and go active:
PIONEER DEH-P880PRS - eBay (item 330353278494 end time Oct-17-09 12:17:30 PDT)









That leaves you at $892 + $150 for the box= $1042.. and if the guys here donate the speaker wires , power and RCA's... you can use the $60 remaining on deadner. Good luck with the install.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Ok so I'm sorry to dissapoint you guys but this is what I have already. 


I tried to follow Patrick Batemans Idea on the amp, but I did some review searching and this amp stood out.

CADENCE TXA-3002 STEREO AMPLIFIER * BRAND NEW * - eBay (item 310169940289 end time Sep-24-09 12:27:06 PDT)

And so did this one
Clarion DPX11551 Mono subwoofer amplifier &#151; 1550 watts x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com

I know Patrick your going to curse me out for this, but honestly, I'm not comfortable with cutting up my truck to install some kick panels. I'm just not that good at doing that type of stuff. Not to mention I would have to make some crossovers (so not comfortable with that) if I did buy those daytons. So I went ahead and bought these. I got them on sale 100$ off, and I heard nothing but good things about them from a very reliable source. Wish I did wait because I would have bought those PPI's you just posted...

Clarion SRP1320M Platinum Series 5-1/4" component system at Crutchfield.com


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Brechin said:


> Ok so I'm sorry to dissapoint you guys but this is what I have already.
> 
> 
> I tried to follow Patrick Batemans Idea on the amp, but I did some review searching and this amp stood out.
> ...


Are you kidding?!!! POS Clarion speakers?!!! Why 5 1/4 size comps, when you can fit 6 1/2's where the factory speakers are?...

I thought you said you already (post #83) bought the Clarion amp?... And, why you are looking at two channel amps is beyond me. 

Now, what makes you think you need(ed) kick-panels, "when you already have the factory speaker spots in the doors?...

Again..., didn't you say you already bought the Clarion amp?


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Vega-LE said:


> Are you kidding?!!! POS Clarion speakers?!!! Why 5 1/4 size comps, when you can fit 6 1/2's where the factory speakers are?...
> 
> I thought you said you already (post #83) bought the Clarion amp?... And, why you are looking at two channel amps is beyond me.
> 
> ...


I bought the big clarion amp. not the small one. I was going to get it but it was out of stock. LOL I'm still trying to get crutchfiedl to cancel my order on the speakers though. I really want those Precision Powers. 

The two channel amp is for my mids and tweeters. The Monoblock Clarion I bought is for the subs.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Vega-LE said:


> Are you kidding?!!! POS Clarion speakers?!!! Why 5 1/4 size comps, when you can fit 6 1/2's where the factory speakers are?...
> 
> I thought you said you already (post #83) bought the Clarion amp?... And, why you are looking at two channel amps is beyond me.
> 
> ...


Things that are fine:
Don't worry about the kick panels.

You got the correct front speakers now. PPI

You have good sub amp. Clarion

You have good subs and sub box. Dayton

Things that are still up in air:
Rear speakers? I recommend them. But only as a midbass. So, this means you get the a 6.5-7" speaker to fit the rear door. This gets tricky---> You will need a high pass crossover of around 80Hz / 24db slope / 4 ohm and set the amp to lowpass. As for the speakers- Dayton, peerless, seas, etc. If you need help choosing just ask.

Adding rear speakers means you need a 4 channel amp and it probably is a better move anyway. 

You ordered the pioneer headunit we all recommended?

You need sound deadening.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Ok nvm the order was already cancled! Buying the Precision powers now! YAY!!!!!!!!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Brechin said:


> Ok nvm the order was already cancled! Buying the Precision powers now! YAY!!!!!!!!


EXCELLENT choice on the Precision Powers. I don't see how you can go wrong with those. The tweeter is a little smoother than some, but I prefer that sound. It's not quite as detailed as a metal dome, but it also won't make your ears bleed.

The Cadence is a fine amp, but it's a really BIG amp. Make sure the dimensions work with your installation before you order it.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Good times!! That Cadence amp has been fine for me...but I'm using it bridged. I never tested it's 2-channel characteristics. It gets warm to touch but that's all.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Ok so look, this is what I have purchased....


1 x clarion dpx1550

1 x cadence 900wat 2channel amp going to wire, it like this. Tweeter, front and rear mids to one channel.

2xspeakers to 1 channel. 

2x component Precision Power speakers

36ft of 14AWG speaker wire for 19.29$ on ebay lol!

2 x Dayton Reference HO 10''

4 x speaker baffle

2 x speaker baffle for subs. 


__________________________________

What else I'm going to buy

Pioneer FH-P8000BT DoubleDin Bluetooth CD MP3 Bluetooth - eBay (item 120471312930 end time Sep-25-09 19:20:13 PDT)

a big sheet of 1/2 MDF board for MDF Rings, and for amp mounting on the rear wall. 

___________________________________

What people are donating

Distribution blocks 
8AWG power wire

____________________________________

What else is needed? Yeah I would like to do the dynamat and foam but really, I'm not car fabricating intelligent at all, so If I buy some its only going to be where I install my speakers. I love my truck and I really don't want to take anything out and not be able to put it back on....

____________________________________

Just a thought, Is it possible to mount the amps to the ceiling? That would be alot easier in my truck. What would be cool is if I installed them on the back of my front seats. Just don't want to tear up the leather... 

_____________________________________

Would it be a good idea to put the tweeters up HIGH on the A pillar? With a slight angle down? Or even put them in the mirror component? Or just low as close to the front windshield as possible?


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Just a question will I still need a wiring harness for my HU to route to my amp? If I wire 2 speakers and a tweeter to 1 channel on a 2x channel amp will I be hurting anything? (Left and right channels or Front and back channels)


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Brechin said:


> Just a question will I still need a wiring harness for my HU to route to my amp? If I wire 2 speakers and a tweeter to 1 channel on a 2x channel amp will I be hurting anything? (Left and right channels or Front and back channels)


Yes, you need a HU wiring harness.

The 2 channel amp is not ideal for a front and rear setup. You will have to bridge each side of the amp for one side of the component set, and one midbass rear speaker. And the same for the other. This also requires you to switch the RCA plugs around. The main problem with this is that you have no control of gain or crossover settings for front versus rear speakers. It could work but not as easy to make sound right.


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Brechin said:


> Just a question will I still need a wiring harness for my HU to route to my amp? If I wire 2 speakers and a tweeter to 1 channel on a 2x channel amp will I be hurting anything? (Left and right channels or Front and back channels)


"You need a four channel amp to run two sets of comps." Does that make sense? Again..., why are you buying a two channel amp instead of a four channel? I'm not sure what you are trying to do with your wire configuration.

IMO, you are totally wasting... your money getting a second pair of comps for the rears.

This is pretty confusing; "If I wire 2 speakers and a tweeter to 1 channel on a 2x channel amp will I be hurting anything? (Left and right channels or Front and back channels." You have me so... confused on that one. 

Anywhew, I'm done... here. Something's not jiving. Good luck!


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## sqoverspl (Aug 17, 2009)

Good luck with your son's system. I just bought the same ppi's and I just might be picking up a dayton 12 HO. Also you were very smart coming here first rather than leaning on your own mistakes.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

Vega-LE said:


> "You need a four channel amp to run two sets of comps." Does that make sense? Again..., why are you buying a two channel amp instead of a four channel? I'm not sure what you are trying to do with your wire configuration.
> 
> IMO, you are totally wasting... your money getting a second pair of comps for the rears.
> 
> ...


Ok, so what I will do is use the amp for the front components, till I get a 4 channel and use the rear comps on the H/U...


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

Brechin said:


> Ok, so what I will do is use the amp for the front components, till I get a 4 channel and use the rear comps on the H/U...


That will work. But, a four channel amp would be better than a 2 channel. That way you can bridge the 4ch. making it a "two channel" and get more power out of your set-up. Good luck!


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Brechin said:


> Ok, so what I will do is use the amp for the front components, till I get a 4 channel and use the rear comps on the H/U...


That's a good plan. Or just add a 2 channel for the rear speakers. But it will take up more space.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

cedoman said:


> Your a cool dad... you said you bought the subs already. The Daytons are great but if you could... I would return them and and get 2 of these..
> 
> IMAGE DYNAMICS 10" OEM SUB, SOUND QUALITY SUBWOOFER - eBay (item 120463972608 end time Sep-27-09 18:07:57 PDT)
> 
> ...


Hey Brechin!!.. Over here man^^^^... this is all you need...Get that Cerwin Vega amp!!!!.. your throwing away a lot of $$$.. good luck!!


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

cedoman said:


> Hey Brechin!!.. Over here man^^^^... this is all you need...Get that Cerwin Vega amp!!!!.. Stop doing impossible things with this setup .. your throwing away a lot of $$$.. good luck!!



Well you know, those daytons, come with a 5yr warranty and nothing but good things have been said about it. Those subs you picked out will not fit in my enclosure btw.... However I'm going to sell the Cadence amp for 115$ brand new in box. Then I will do some research and find a new 4channel amp... I already bought those Precision Powers... My headunit I picked out is cheaper, and does the same thing + it fits my truck... 

Only thing I don't want is those subs...


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## ogg (Oct 13, 2007)

Brechin said:


> Well you know, those daytons, come with a 5yr warranty and nothing but good things have been said about it. Those subs you picked out will not fit in my enclosure btw.... However I'm going to sell the Cadence amp for 115$ brand new in box. Then I will do some research and find a new 4channel amp... I already bought those Precision Powers... My headunit I picked out is cheaper, and does the same thing + it fits my truck...
> 
> Only thing I don't want is those subs...


How about the Cadence TXA3004 instead of the 3002? It's about the same price and has more power than the Cerwin Vega. 
The 880 is a better HU and absolutely worth the price and then some.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Try the USB 4085?

Great amps...can't really beat the price. Hopefully they're not too big?

eBay Seller: audioclinic: Electronics items on eBay.com


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## Chrisandalex1 (Sep 25, 2009)

Wow, I hope your son enjoys your effort


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

This is his son at the moment... I am the REAL Brechin...


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

I have a question what kind of connectors do I need for the power wire to the distroblock and from the amps to the speakers?


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

Brechin said:


> I have a question what kind of connectors do I need for the power wire to the distroblock and from the amps to the speakers?


The power wire into the distro block is just the power wire stripped of the insulation. There is no connector. Depending on the amp you can either just have the speaker wire stripped and put into the terminal or you can get spade connectors like these: http://www.hdwise.com/image.php?type=T&id=529

The speakers will need something like this most likely : http://www.dclinearactuators.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/spade-connectors-female.jpg

These are all very inexpensive at your local hardware store.


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## InjunV18 (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey Brechin,

I live in Charlotte and am a DIY'er at heart. I have a full shop and tools and would be willing to help you with any of your fabrication and whatnot. Feel free to call me if you have any questions and we can hash things out. Sometimes it's easier over the phone or in person instead of the forum. I've sent you a PM. Just let me know. If you question my skills, feel free to look at my build logs and hopefully I can help you out.


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## InjunV18 (Jun 16, 2008)

My Pathfinder

Friend's Mustang


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## bandican (Jun 16, 2009)

I agree, I live on the coast, about 2 hrs east-ish of Raleigh (Havelock area), and I would be happy to get involved in any way I can!


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## bandican (Jun 16, 2009)

InjunV18 said:


> My Pathfinder
> 
> Friend's Mustang


Beautiful work, *****! Glad to see some quality coming out of NC! Been here almost a year now, and have some good contacts, however I miss the quality shops back home  I might have to pay you a visit sometime you're not fabricating and do some networking


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## InjunV18 (Jun 16, 2008)

I think it's getting hard to figure out what you need and where you're going with this system because people are suggesting things at lightning pace and you've made some purchases so far that I think may have been a mistake. (Cadence Amp... the 6004 is notorious for overheating, personal experience here... and as stated before it's huge) 

As a forum this place has an amazing wealth of knowledge to offer. Everyone on here is willing to help you. First things first, you really need to assess what you want. From reading this thread twice, it looks like we're here now.

Clarion DPX 1550 (Sub amp) $150
Dayton HO 10" x2 (Sub) $250
PPI 355cs x2 (Front and Rear) $200
Misc installation items

What you don't have:
Headunit/CD player: You've had some good suggestions on here. I would go with what these fine folks have suggested. Perhaps the forum favorite? Clarion DXZ785usb $130
Will allow you to upgrade in the future, has ipod controls through usb and color matching so it will integrate with your dash. The pioneer you mentioned is fine as well. Even a good Navonne Line Out Converter may be all you need.

Amp for PPI Speakers : I like matching amps as it really makes your install look clean. Found this and think it would be great for you as it not only matches but has the power to balance out the high wattage you have going to your subs. Clarion APX4361 $240

You're doing fine! This isn't a bad setup at all and will surely impress your son, and even all his buds. The install is what's important though, remember that as a priority. Totals up to $970 which leaves you plenty for whatever installation items you may need. I will gladly help fabricate and install anything you have.

Here's a system diagram of what you've got going on.


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## Brechin (Sep 16, 2009)

InjunV18 said:


> I think it's getting hard to figure out what you need and where you're going with this system because people are suggesting things at lightning pace and you've made some purchases so far that I think may have been a mistake. (Cadence Amp... the 6004 is notorious for overheating, personal experience here... and as stated before it's huge)
> 
> As a forum this place has an amazing wealth of knowledge to offer. Everyone on here is willing to help you. First things first, you really need to assess what you want. From reading this thread twice, it looks like we're here now.
> 
> ...


Clarion APX4361 Multi-channel Amps Car Amplifiers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

This is what I'm looking at now... 

I already bought the Pioneer H/U... 

However I am going to keep the Cadence amp, but I am going to turn around and sell it or trade it for some speaker wire, distro blocks, and some ground wire.


I will definately take you up on your offer about helping me out with the fabrication. I'll reply to your pm now.


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## ogg (Oct 13, 2007)

InjunV18 said:


> Cadence Amp... the 6004 is notorious for overheating, personal experience here... and as stated before it's huge)


Only the defective short heatsink TXAs found on ebay are prone to overheating. If you get it from an authorized cadence dealer there should be no issues.


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## InjunV18 (Jun 16, 2008)

True, but I wasn't sure where he would get it from. For the power ratings and sake of matching amps I would go with the clarion. $220 for 90 watts per channel is pretty reasonable in my opinion, and as a bonus it matches the mono amp he got on a deal. All in all he's got 5 strong channels of amplification for ~$370. Seems more than worth it to me. Of course, it's all up to him, so whatever makes him happy is the direction he should go.


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## ogg (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm definitely not knocking the clarion amps. I almost bought a DPX11551 but I have no use for it at the moment. I just didn't want anyone to think the Cadence amps from an authorized dealer are suspect. I'd be running all TXAs if I could fit them in my truck but they are freakin' huge.


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