# Moving on from the GB60's. Need suggestions.



## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

I gave the GB60's a shot and just wasn't happy with the results. I mounted them in the doors but I just could get enough mid bass up front, which seems to be a challenge. So maybe I need to go to a driver that leans more toward a woofer. Just not sure. Depth of the driver is limited to about 3" depending on the excursion. Max size is between a 6.5 and 7" driver. Anyone else go with a small woofer in place of a true mid bass?


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

What vehicle?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

clange2485 said:


> What vehicle?


2015 F-250


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## BenRX350 (12 mo ago)

Very curious about this thread.... These go for $1000 a pair correct? And they are listed as "midrange", but these are midwoofers/midbass right?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

BenRX350 said:


> Very curious about this thread.... These go for $1000 a pair correct? And they are listed as "midrange", but these are midwoofers/midbass right?


More like midrange/mid bass. Yes, they are expensive. There are quite a few inmates here that have them. They are a good driver but they just didn't achieve the sound I was looking for in my application.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Sounds like a vehicle/door location issue, not a driver capability issue. Time to try kicks vented into the frame rails.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> More like midrange/mid bass. Yes, they are expensive. There are quite a few inmates here that have them. They are a good driver but they just didn't achieve the sound I was looking for in my application.


Are you sure there isn’t something left on the table tuning or install wise? Block off plates/more sound treatment if possible. I’ve had multiple tunes done and one recently really brought the gb60’s to life and it was the first time they’ve been able to cause a rattle/noise in my doors. If you can fit 8’s id 100% say go for it but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.

Curious what the stock speaker was?


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## Caustic (May 13, 2018)

Stock is 6x9, an 8" can fit without issue.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Sounds like a vehicle/door location issue, not a driver capability issue. Time to try kicks vented into the frame rails.


I debated that option before. Not happening. May try the Purifi 6.5's if I can't get these sounding like I want.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Caustic said:


> Stock is 6x9, an 8" can fit without issue.


Mine had the Sony system so it was a 5X7


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

MTI adapter plates for an 8 and drop in the 8 of your choosing. They add about an inch to available depth too.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

clange2485 said:


> Are you sure there isn’t something left on the table tuning or install wise? Block off plates/more sound treatment if possible. I’ve had multiple tunes done and one recently really brought the gb60’s to life and it was the first time they’ve been able to cause a rattle/noise in my doors. If you can fit 8’s id 100% say go for it but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.
> 
> Curious what the stock speaker was?


Dynamat Extreme on inside of door skin and outside of door panel frame. I can't go 8's without some pretty significant modifications. I had custom grills made onto my panels for the excursion of the GB's so I really can't go more than 7" and 3" mounting depth.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

UNBROKEN said:


> MTI adapter plates for an 8 and drop in the 8 of your choosing. They add about an inch to available depth too.


Yeah I can surface mount all day but Im trying to keep the install as clean as possible.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> I debated that option before. Not happening. May try the Purifi 6.5's if I can't get these sounding like I want.


Throwing money at this issue won't fix it. You already own one of the better 6.5's. Changing the driver isn't going to fill the null created by factory door LOCATION. Either kicks, or maybe a front (footwell or glovebox) small sub combined with extensive (and competent) tuning.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Throwing money at this issue won't fix it. You already own one of the better 6.5's. Changing the driver isn't going to fill the null created by factory door LOCATION. Either kicks, or maybe a front (footwell or glovebox) small sub combined with extensive (and competent) tuning.


May try to tune further. Or maybe my hopes were just too high. I had my mid range in my doors before and they actually sounded pretty good there. I doubt its the location. Midrange would sound worse than mid bass if that was the case. Thanks for the input.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

As much as I love trying new equipment, this 100% isn't a speaker problem. That said, I'm almost positive you can fit 8s in there.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Esscueonly said:


> Throwing money at this issue won't fix it. You already own one of the better 6.5's. Changing the driver isn't going to fill the null created by factory door LOCATION. Either kicks, or maybe a front (footwell or glovebox) small sub combined with extensive (and competent) tuning.


^Agreed.

@Eatmore Bacon If you couldn't get excellent midbass response using the GB60's and a good subwoofer, then there is something amiss with your installation, but more likely, the tuning. Or, you are simply expecting too much from 6.5" drivers!

The proper phase and time integration between the front midbass or midwoofer drivers and your subwoofer(s) at your listening position is critical and is not to be underestimated.

As @Esscueonly mentioned, all vehicles will have at least 1 or more significant cancellation nulls within the midbass frequency region due to the physical dimensions of the cabin, or more specifically, the Locatons (distance between) your front Left & Right door-mounted midbass drivers.

Swapping the drivers to units with more cone area and or more Xmax does not change where these cancellation nulls appear and will provide minimal gains at those null points. It might add some SPL on either side of those nulls, but if your midwoofers and subwoofer are not aligned properly, it won't matter.

If you haven't already watched it, check out this YouTube video by @ErinH. And if you have seen it, watch it again.






Pay someone like @SkizeR to do a proper tune of your system before you throw at least that much money (and probably more) to swap out your midwoofers.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Just another person saying what everyone else is saying. The GB60 is one of the better 6.5 sets for midbass. If you can't fit 8s, I would say you are making a lateral to reverse move in midbass capabilities with pretty much any other car audio 6.5 midbass.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Dynamat Extreme on inside of door skin and outside of door panel frame. I can't go 8's without some pretty significant modifications. I had custom grills made onto my panels for the excursion of the GB's so I really can't go more than 7" and 3" mounting depth.



But are the openings in your metal doors skins behind the door trim panels completely sealed??? And are you using some type of "fast ring" isolator to keep the energy from the front cone of the GB60s from leaking behind the door trim panels and the metal door skin.

Check out these door cover plates by Sounds Good Stereo...









Custom Made Door Access Block Off Plates - Compatible with SuperCrew (SCREW) 2015-2020 Ford F-150 + 2017-2023 Super Duty


Are you looking to build the ultimate enclosure in your door panel? If so, these block-off access plates will improve your mid-bass performance and deliver the sound you're looking for.- Hand-made here at our facility just outside of Nashville, TN- Available for the front doors & rear doors- Use...




soundsgoodstereo.com














Do you have any photos you can share of your custom grills on the door panels for the GB60s?


.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

bbfoto said:


> But are the openings in your metal doors skins behind the door trim panels completely sealed??? And are you using some type of "fast ring" isolator to keep the energy from the front cone of the GB60s from leaking behind the door trim panels and the metal door skin.
> 
> Check out these door cover plates by Sounds Good Stereo...
> 
> ...


Everything is sealed and I used speed rings around the drivers to push the sound forward through the grills. I will post pics of before and after on the grills tomorrow morning. I don't have confidence in anyone local that can tune a DSP, unfortunately. I know I have great equipment and I know the install is correct. Gotta be the tune.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> As much as I love trying new equipment, this 100% isn't a speaker problem. That said, I'm almost positive you can fit 8s in there.


If I can fit 8's then thats the route I would like to take, as long as I don't have to surface mount them. Thanks for the reply.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Everything is sealed and I used speed rings around the drivers to push the sound forward through the grills. I will post pics of before and after on the grills tomorrow morning. I don't have confidence in anyone local that can tune a DSP, unfortunately. I know I have great equipment and I know the install is correct. Gotta be the tune.


Where are you located? Quality tuning pros can make a much bigger improvement than buying new equipment. But the null will still be there.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Where are you located? Quality tuning pros can make a much bigger improvement than buying new equipment. But the null will still be there.


Im all the way down on the coast in Alabama


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Im all the way down on the coast in Alabama


Not many SQ shops down yonder. Maybe a road trip or pay for a remote tune. I just drove from Dallas to Colorado Springs so my guy could tweak my tune. Oh, and legal weed.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Not many SQ shops down yonder. Maybe a road trip or pay for a remote tune. I just drove from Dallas to Colorado Springs so my guy could tweak my tune. Oh, and legal weed.


Yep. Thats been a problem. Everyone down here is still on the boom boom train with regular crossovers. All old school.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Yep. Thats been a problem. Everyone down here is still on the boom boom train with regular crossovers. All old school.


Another option is to attend an SQ competition, make some new friends and see if you can buy some tuning services. You have nice gear, get more out of it


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## OCD66 (Apr 2, 2017)

I've been running GB60's for years with many different DSPs from a TWK88 up to a Helix. Run with a GB15. 80-2k. I also was never happy with the output.

I recently went 3 way with a pair of Illusion C3, separates. 

Dropped the 60's to 70hz and only run them up to 450hz. Gave them more power. Way better.

This lets them do what you want and keep the vocals out of them. (GB60)

Hybrid 3 way. 150w to the GB60 and 150w to the C3 combo using the passive crossover. 

EZ tune.

That being said, These are my next drivers.





C8 – Illusion Audio | High-End Mobile Audio


Illusion Audio High-End Mobile Audio - Designed and Engineered in California




www.illusionaudio-america.com





You can make them fit.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Esscueonly said:


> Not many SQ shops down yonder. Maybe a road trip or pay for a remote tune. I just drove from Dallas to Colorado Springs so my guy could tweak my tune. Oh, and legal weed.


And,
after that everything sounds better 😆 😆 😆
on the serious note, I hardly doubt that issue lays in Speakers, revisit your install and tuning, and im sure you will sort the issue without buying new midbass drivers, which probably wouldnt solve the issue......or your expectations are way off


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## Selkec (Nov 18, 2018)

What is your crossover settings? This is A tuning issue. 
if you run your subs high enough like 80-100hz area and get the time/phase and eq each driver beyond the xover points you will have the midbass you want. Currently I run a IB18 to 80hz with junk factory 6.5” because I’m redoing it all and I still have awesome midbass


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> If I can fit 8's then thats the route I would like to take, as long as I don't have to surface mount them. Thanks for the reply.


You can fit 8’s in the factory location behind the door panels. It’s one of the most common sizes used in F150’s for aftermarket drivers. Again, MTI makes a nice adapter. This would be a swap for later…you may be perfectly happy once you get what you have tuned correctly.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

The beloved GB60 is one of the best drivers.


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## Slave2myXJ (Dec 18, 2021)

LBaudio said:


> I hardly doubt that issue..


Not that you were looking for an English lesson, but for those of us on this side of the pond, your usage of hardly doesn't translate well in the overall meaning of that sentence. Looking up the definition, it appears that the has completely flipped over the years...

old definition: harshly "the rule worked hardly"
new definition: scarcely (used to qualify a statement by saying that it is true to an insignificant degree) "the little house in which he lived was hardly bigger than a hut"

I feel for those who English isn't their native language; it must be hell to learn...


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

…


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## Slave2myXJ (Dec 18, 2021)

...


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## Savackz (Feb 25, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Im all the way down on the coast in Alabama


How close is Audio X?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

All I can add is that I listened to a silverado a few months back. It was the installers truck and shop uses it to demo AF GBs. He has an alpine head, I believe audio control for the processing and I ARC amps. The front stage is GB 60 and GB mids and tweets in the A pillar. A pair of JL audio slims under the back seat. I cant speak to things like tune etc, but the thing slams. Midbass is not a problem in that truck at all. The day I sat in the truck, he played about 10 tracks ranging from Rock, an acoustic live, rap. I dont know how the thing compares to a SQ car, but to my regular joe street ears, again, midbass is not an issue with the AFs. I would assume the tune is good as this shop is locally known as the shop that actually can and understands tune. Just throwing this out to OP as it sounds like he wants to invest in different speakers. The only other time I remember hearing very good midbass was a car that ran the JL 800s in the front doors. Obviously not a head to head comparison, but this truck sounded just about as good in that department from memory


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Savackz said:


> How close is Audio X?


Last I heard, Audio X was closed due to a fire.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Savackz said:


> How close is Audio X?


They don't exist anymore


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Everything is sealed and I used speed rings around the drivers to push the sound forward through the grills. I will post pics of before and after on the grills tomorrow morning. I don't have confidence in anyone local that can tune a DSP, unfortunately. I know I have great equipment and I know the install is correct. Gotta be the tune.


Start a new tune from scratch, do nothing but T/A and then experiment with crossovers to get the midbass where you want it BEFORE starting any EQ...

My tune was so hosed up from trying to fix midbass reflections from the center console and starting over was WAY better than the tune that myself and multiple others had worked on repeatedly.

If the new tune is worse then you can always go back to the one you're working on...


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Selkec said:


> What is your crossover settings? This is A tuning issue.
> if you run your subs high enough like 80-100hz area and get the time/phase and eq each driver beyond the xover points you will have the midbass you want. Currently I run a IB18 to 80hz with junk factory 6.5” because I’m redoing it all and I still have awesome midbass


80-400 Hz currently. I have played with them a bit up to 100hz but not lower than 80


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Old grills vs new. Gives me more room for excursion. Without adapters I can go 2.75” in depth.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)




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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

@Eatmore Bacon 

Post a new thread... "Wanted: Professional Tune for 3-way+Sub, Helix DSP.3, 2015 F-250, South Coast Alabama, see Equipment in Signature"

Post on C.A.J. forum as well.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

I'm running a 6.5" woofer that pounds pretty darn well, but I am sending 260w to each of them, so if tuning doesn't resolve your bass-woes, and money is no object:





Thesis Th 6.5 Midrange Midbass Midwoofer - AUDISON 6.5" 150W PEAK 150W RMS Speakers System PAIR Active


Th, THesis, 6.5, AUDISON, 6.5", 150, Watts, RMS, Tweeter, Component, Speakers, System, TH 6.5,




www.woofersetc.com


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

I was gonna say the same!! I swapped gb60 for Thesis 6.5 @ 200w each.. GB 60 were good but couldn't justify the Thesis in my van.. I was gonna get 8in woofers for the van for bass in conjuction with the 6.5" and I didn't actually need them. Proper sound deadening and prep goes a very long way, as does proper tuning.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

MythosDreamLab said:


> I'm running a 6.5" woofer that pounds pretty darn well, but I am sending 260w to each of them, so if tuning doesn't resolve your bass-woes, and money is no object:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the power but not the will for the driver price tag. Nice though.


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## dookie (Oct 26, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Mine had the Sony system so it was a 5X7


Is this an F250 issue? The 150 Sony definitely fits 8s. Surely the doors don't vary with audio choice...

(edit...looking at the pics at the very end. yup, 250 door is different. here's the 150 for that i assumed you were working with)


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Slave2myXJ said:


> Not that you were looking for an English lesson, but for those of us on this side of the pond, your usage of hardly doesn't translate well in the overall meaning of that sentence. Looking up the definition, it appears that the has completely flipped over the years...
> 
> old definition: harshly "the rule worked hardly"
> new definition: scarcely (used to qualify a statement by saying that it is true to an insignificant degree) "the little house in which he lived was hardly bigger than a hut"
> ...


hardly works out fine in Vermont...Like It hardly even snowed last night.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

MythosDreamLab said:


> I'm running a 6.5" woofer that pounds pretty darn well, but I am sending 260w to each of them, so if tuning doesn't resolve your bass-woes, and money is no object:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am going to spend the rest of the night wrapping my head around $2500. I have $80 peerless mids.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

"Hardly" anyone spends that much....(lol)


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Btw fast rings sucked for me.. sticky unglued and were hanging.. caused acoustic issues.. replaced with these rubber ones.. no glue.. bolt and squeeze in.. zero leaks.. also protect the driver from water way better.. here is are some pictures


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> I am going to spend the rest of the night wrapping my head around $2500. I have $80 peerless mids.


Yeah, $2500/pair to cover 60-300hz seems a bit excessive. I have a friend with Thesis 2-way and they really shine. They'd better for that price


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Grinder said:


> Last I heard, Audio X was closed due to a fire.


Caused by a dust collector I believe. A huge loss.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

killadawg said:


> Btw fast rings sucked for me.. sticky unglued and were hanging.. caused acoustic issues.. replaced with these rubber ones.. no glue.. bolt and squeeze in.. zero leaks.. also protect the driver from water way better.. here is are some pictures
> View attachment 334326


I’m using those silicone baffle things currently too. Do you think there’s any advantage to removing the the bottom half that sits in the door cavity? Basically a rain shield. I wonder if there’s any air restriction.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

miniSQ said:


> I am going to spend the rest of the night wrapping my head around $2500. I have $80 peerless mids.


Just wait until I tell you about Accuton Automotive


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Just wait until I tell you about Accuton Automotive


I used Accuton (non automotive) and Eton 25 years ago. I think the eton 8 i used in a ported box caused me to prefer ported 8's to this day. 

Trouble is back then they were all sort of affordable. Today.....not for most people.


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Someone that sells a lot of high end gear told me this Eton is their favorite midwoofer. No idea how they sound.
Eton ONYX 16, ONYX 80, ONYX 28 | EISA – Expert Imaging and Sound Association


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

Patriot83 said:


> Someone that sells a lot of high end gear told me this Eton is their favorite midwoofer. No idea how they sound.
> Eton ONYX 16, ONYX 80, ONYX 28 | EISA – Expert Imaging and Sound Association


_
That sounds like a good enough recommendation to me...._


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

MythosDreamLab said:


> _That sounds like a good enough recommendation to me...._


Not saying it's better than the GB60 though. They don't sell Audiofrog. He said the Scanspeak was his all time favorite.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

What have you done to tune them? All I see is some crossover points. You say that you can’t get them to sound how you want, but what have you tried? Have you used an RTA, or are you just changing things and listening?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

gijoe said:


> What have you done to tune them? All I see is some crossover points. You say that you can’t get them to sound how you want, but what have you tried? Have you used an RTA, or are you just changing things and listening?


I had it tuned by someone else, or thought so. A local guy. Im searching.


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## kB86 (Jun 12, 2021)

My 6.5" midbass indoor low pass at 35hz- high pass at 250hz
My 10" subs play 25hz-80hz
Seem like nobody cross midbass that low. Great result on low end though. 
I dont understand at all. Can anyone explain?


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## e39 touring (Oct 19, 2012)

kB86 said:


> My 6.5" midbass indoor low pass at 35hz- high pass at 250hz
> My 10" subs play 25hz-80hz
> Seem like nobody cross midbass that low. Great result on low end though.
> I dont understand at all. Can anyone explain?


Playing mid bass that low, lower than fs, or close to it- introduces distortion. It’s physics.
Read the tutorials on the AF the website to expand your knowledge.
Also, underlap on sub-mid bass x over is most typical due to the typical target curve sub bass bump. ie sub LP at 60 and mid bass HP at 80, with the levels taller on the sub it works out.

Read this



 https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

kB86 said:


> My 6.5" midbass indoor low pass at 35hz- high pass at 250hz
> My 10" subs play 25hz-80hz
> Seem like nobody cross midbass that low. Great result on low end though.
> I dont understand at all. Can anyone explain?


Because most can’t play with any real authority that low…especially not with any volume. Plus there’s no reason to if your subs can play that high. Let the proper driver do that work.


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## kB86 (Jun 12, 2021)

My midbass can play 35hz-2800hz on their website (Not AF midbass). And the installer knows this speaker inside out. I just dont understand why need to cross that low. It sounds good though. No distortion on low end.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

kB86 said:


> My midbass can play 35hz-2800hz on their website (Not AF midbass). And the installer knows this speaker inside out. I just dont understand why need to cross that low. It sounds good though. No distortion on low end.
> View attachment 334375


I don't believe for a second that you're playing a 6.5" that low without a significant amount of distortion. Even very good 6.5's shouldn't be pushed below 60hz or so, and even if a speaker can handle it, there's no benefit. The subwoofer can play those frequencies much easier, with much less distortion. Asking a 6.5 to do 35hz is just silly. The 35hz-2800hz mentioned on the website should NOT be interpreted as the crossover points, those are simply the frequencies the speaker can do with very little power in a controlled test environment.


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## kB86 (Jun 12, 2021)

gijoe said:


> I don't believe for a second that you're playing a 6.5" that low without a significant amount of distortion. Even very good 6.5's shouldn't be pushed below 60hz or so, and even if a speaker can handle it, there's no benefit. The subwoofer can play those frequencies much easier, with much less distortion. Asking a 6.5 to do 35hz is just silly. The 35hz-2800hz mentioned on the website should NOT be interpreted as the crossover points, those are simply the frequencies the speaker can do with very little power in a controlled test environment.


Look at the picture. Does it means my midbass actually play at 30hz? If it actually does, i dont hear any significant distortion.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

kB86 said:


> Look at the picture. Does it means my midbass actually play at 30hz? If it actually does, i dont hear any significant distortion.


The picture is just a graph of the EQ settings, it is not showing what the frequency response is while playing. Again, a 6.5" may play down to 30hz at very low volume, but not at listening levels. Low frequencies require more excursion, and the more excursion a speaker uses the more distortion is created. I am using some very compentent 6.5's and I cross them at 80hz to reduce distortion because the subwoofer can do the job so much easier. If there is no sub you may be tempted to run the mids lower, but the lower you push them the more distortion you'll get as you turn up the volume. If you're not careful you can also ruin the speakers by asking too much of them.


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## kB86 (Jun 12, 2021)

gijoe said:


> The picture is just a graph of the EQ settings, it is not showing what the frequency response is while playing. Again, a 6.5" may play down to 30hz at very low volume, but not at listening levels. Low frequencies require more excursion, and the more excursion a speaker uses the more distortion is created. I am using some very compentent 6.5's and I cross them at 80hz to reduce distortion because the subwoofer can do the job so much easier. If there is no sub you may be tempted to run the mids lower, but the lower you push them the more distortion you'll get as you turn up the volume. If you're not careful you can also ruin the speakers by asking too much of them.


Where do i find frequency respond while playing? I do have a sub. I dont think the installer risk the midbass, he has to do the warranty after all. He certainly no naive. He also understand the speaker more than anyone. Weird.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

kB86 said:


> Where do i find frequency respond while playing? I do have a sub. I dont think the installer risk the midbass, he has to do the warranty after all. He certainly no naive. He also understand the speaker more than anyone. Weird.


You need a measurement microphone, and an RTA (real time analyzer) like Room EQ Wizard to see how the speaker is behaving in a particular environment. You would get the microphone setup at the listening position, play pink noise, and graph the response.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

idk my af gb 60 sound amazing and have incredible output for a 6.5 , but they are tuned correctly


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Well I found a car audio professional that tunes. Taking the truck to him soon. Leave it for a week. Then return to pick it up. Won’t know what mid bass we are using until he looks at the truck and we discuss further on options. I will report back as to what the end result is. Thanks for everyone’s reply’s.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Well I found a car audio professional that tunes. Taking the truck to him soon. Leave it for a week. Then return to pick it up. Won’t know what mid bass we are using until he looks at the truck and we discuss further on options. I will report back as to what the end result is. Thanks for everyone’s reply’s.


Good deal. Not sure that you need a different midbass. With the midwoofers and subwoofer you have, the system should have plenty of midbass and bass once it's tuned properly...Sure, we always want more, haha. But it's eye (ear) opening to see how incredible midbass & bass can be when a system is properly tuned (and installed). Cancellation nulls at the listening position can seriously destroy midbass & bass impact and SPL.

Is the Subwoofer on the driver's side or passenger side? It's usually at least +3dB better and with smoother response overall with the subwoofer on the passenger side in 90% of both cars and trucks.

What speaker & subwoofer brands does his shop carry?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

bbfoto said:


> Good deal. Not sure that you need a different midbass. With the midwoofers and subwoofer you have, the system should have plenty of midbass and bass once it's tuned properly...Sure, we always want more, haha. But it's eye (ear) opening to see how incredible midbass & bass can be when a system is properly tuned (and installed). Cancellation nulls at the listening position can seriously destroy midbass & bass impact and SPL.
> 
> Is the Subwoofer on the driver's side or passenger side? It's usually at least +3dB better and with smoother response overall with the subwoofer on the passenger side in 90% of both cars and trucks.
> 
> What speaker & subwoofer brands does his shop carry?


Due to the motorized sliding glass in the back window I had to build my sub enclosure for the drivers side. I am honestly not sure what all he carry’s yet. I have seen quite a few different lines that he has installed but not sure what brands he is a dealer for. As soon as he takes possession of my truck I can share more. I need to make sure he gets it first. He didn’t seem too high on AF as a mid bass.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Well I found a car audio professional that tunes.


Who did you find that tunes because I am the Mobile, Al. area?


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Due to the motorized sliding glass in the back window I had to build my sub enclosure for the drivers side. I am honestly not sure what all he carry’s yet. I have seen quite a few different lines that he has installed but not sure what brands he is a dealer for. As soon as he takes possession of my truck I can share more. I need to make sure he gets it first. He didn’t seem too high on AF as a mid bass.


Your new place not liking AF and already talking about swapping midbass is kind of a red flag. You need someone to simply tune your truck as well as it can be, with no bias then YOU decide if it meets your standards or not. This is a process that shouldn’t take more than 3-4 hours…not a week.


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Yeah they should know pretty fast what the issues is.. My AF hit pretty hard to be honest. They were on par with my Hertz Mile Legends.. hell even my 3.0 Thesis hit hard as hell (surprised the hell outta me how low those go) it's really in the tune and how your system was built. When I was tuning mine, I made quite a few mistakes, trial by error, I could have, and might retune by a pro. Yet I DIY because I wanted to learn.. making sure to follow the speaker specs is really important.. like setting the gain correctly.. when first tuned my systems, I failed to lower the gain on my tweets and 3.0 speakers causing them to be way too loud, so I could never hear the midbass unless I used the eq and almost turned my highs and high mids off.. I bought a calibrated mic, learned to use an RTA (REW) and set gains and phase properly.. the difference was night and day (and it didn't take me more than half a day, reading many of the sources from this forum and youtube vids from others..) as GI Joe says.. "Knowing is half the Battle"


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

UNBROKEN said:


> Your new place not liking AF and already talking about swapping midbass is kind of a red flag. You need someone to simply tune your truck as well as it can be, with no bias then YOU decide if it meets your standards or not. This is a process that shouldn’t take more than 3-4 hours…not a week.


This was my first thought as well. I've watched some of the best industry pros tune a car in an hour. This guy needs a week and doesn't like GB60's without hearing/testing?


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

If your looking for great midbass, chest feeling experience.
JL Audio ZR800 or Blam SW8.100 drivers which are 2 ohm and are great for your application.
These are both 8" drivers..
Also send you a PM.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

UNBROKEN said:


> Your new place not liking AF and already talking about swapping midbass is kind of a red flag. You need someone to simply tune your truck as well as it can be, with no bias then YOU decide if it meets your standards or not. This is a process that shouldn’t take more than 3-4 hours…not a week.


Its a week because of how far away he is. I am dropping it off and retrieving the following weekend. As far as the frogs, drivers are like everything else. Subjective. Some swear by them and some have a differing opinion. Im not going to judge someone because they may have a differing opinion. I don't even know his recommendations yet. Its a process. He looks my truck over, checks available space for the mid bass, discusses options with me and I make the final decision. I trust him. He is well known throughout the industry.


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

quickaudi07 said:


> If your looking for great midbass, chest feeling experience.
> JL Audio ZR800 or Blam SW8.100 drivers which are 2 ohm and are great for your application.
> These are both 8" drivers..
> Also send you a PM.


How do you even order them Blam units without buying the whole 2 way set? anybody just sell the drivers by themselves.. prices are also elusive as far as can see? being 2ohm is very interesting


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Update- Frogs are gone. Going with Morel Elate Carbon Pro MW6's. After they arrive next week its tune time. Cant wait.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Update- Frogs are gone. Going with Morel Elate Carbon Pro MW6's. After they arrive next week its tune time. Cant wait.


So who is this mysterious guy doing the work?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> So who is this mysterious guy doing the work?


Steve Cook


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Good to know you're in good hands. He must be working out of his garage.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Good to know you're in good hands. He must be working out of his garage.


That’s correct. He built a shop at his home.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Good to know you're in good hands. He must be working out of his garage.


I should clarify that he is not doing it full time. He works for some high end home audio company currently.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> I should clarify that he is not doing it full time. He works for some high end home audio company currently.


Can't blame him. High end home audio has to be a better way to make a living than car audio. Especially considering the way his insurance company shafted his business


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> Can't blame him. High end home audio has to be a better way to make a living than car audio. Especially considering the way his insurance company shafted his business


I would imagine they are taking pretty good care of him based on his knowledge and skill.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Steve Cook


That makes a lot more sense now. I wouldn’t trust most people with my truck for a day let alone a week but your clearly in good hands. Just curious we’re the morels what he recommended or did you just want to try something different?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

clange2485 said:


> That makes a lot more sense now. I wouldn’t trust most people with my truck for a day let alone a week but your clearly in good hands. Just curious we’re the morels what he recommended or did you just want to try something different?


He recommended them himself. I read the spec sheet before pulling the trigger. Pretty impressive.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

This system has taken me over a year to get completed and I am finally beginning to feel a sense of relief. I have made some mistakes along the way, suffered self induced failures, and learned quite a bit. I have also accomplished quite a bit. If you live in a city that has several shops that can competently fabricate and tune consider yourself fortunate. Not all cites or towns have them. Im an old guy that has more to do than dedicate the time needed for the tuning learning curve. This has been like being in a city with no cell phone and looking for a pay phone. 
I have enjoyed the portions that I did myself and this site was a huge part of it. I always tell my friends, "there is a lot more to car audio than you think". Indeed there is.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> This system has taken me over a year to get completed and I am finally beginning to feel a sense of relief. I have made some mistakes along the way, suffered self induced failures, and learned quite a bit. I have also accomplished quite a bit. If you live in a city that has several shops that can competently fabricate and tune consider yourself fortunate. Not all cites or towns have them. Im an old guy that has more to do than dedicate the time needed for the tuning learning curve. This has been like being in a city with no cell phone and looking for a pay phone.
> I have enjoyed the portions that I did myself and this site was a huge part of it. I always tell my friends, "there is a lot more to car audio than you think". Indeed there is.


I live in one of the largest metro areas in the US and there isn't a single shop here I trust. Even the ones who sell good equipment are really only focused on bassheads or window tint. SQ is almost dead, sadly.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> I live in one of the largest metro areas in the US and there isn't a single shop here I trust. Even the ones who sell good equipment are really only focused on bassheads or window tint. SQ is almost dead, sadly.


Damn you live in chicago to? 😁 i can get a remote start or tint all day long but ask about a dsp and they look at you funny!


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> I live in one of the largest metro areas in the US and there isn't a single shop here I trust. Even the ones who sell good equipment are really only focused on bassheads or window tint. SQ is almost dead, sadly.


That’s how it is here as well. And no quality components. Just the cheaper bass head stuff. They are still using hardwired crossovers etc. not that there is anything wrong with it but it tough if you want a quality SQ system. That’s where sites like this come into play. I grew up in the 80’s when car audio was awesome. A shop on every block it seemed. Now it’s starting to come back but slowly and sadly a lot of talent is gone.


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## RickWilson (Nov 11, 2021)

killadawg said:


> How do you even order them Blam units without buying the whole 2 way set? anybody just sell the drivers by themselves.. prices are also elusive as far as can see? being 2ohm is very interesting


Check the MSC dealer locater, if no one’s local, I’m sure @SkizeR can get you some BLAMs. And the last I heard (and purchased), the BLAM WS8.100 is $1250 for the pair.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Just buy some Audison Thesis.


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

619Tundra said:


> Just buy some Audison Thesis.


For OP? Yes I'd agree... For me.. lol I already rock a 3 way set powered by a 5/30 and 4/10 tuned on an 8to12 Aero... thinking of the BLAMs for a different build. I have 3 vehicles.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Eaton, your door panel pictured, silver drivers door? Not sealed, not even close!!! There are openings around the woofer in the card. You have wires coming in front of the card with a huge gap. That just won’t work and I don’t care what driver you use, the best driver will never overcome an install issue and an unsealed baffle is the worst. Wish I’d seen this sooner or someone had mentioned it. Thats why you have no output!! I run my GB60’s IB in a totally sealed door card and these things are incredible!! I have no gaps, none. My wires run through sealed boots as well.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

He’s convinced himself it’s a driver issue it seems and now he’s found a big name that wants him to swap drivers. He’s gotten a lot of sound advice in this thread…all of which he’s chosen to ignore. It is what it is.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

UNBROKEN said:


> He’s convinced himself it’s a driver issue it seems and now he’s found a big name that wants him to swap drivers. He’s gotten a lot of sound advice in this thread…all of which he’s chosen to ignore. It is what it is.


I too was kinda surprised he turned his nose at the gb60’s. He did Erin’s Honda using gb60’s and if anyone knows speakers it’s Erin! Steve was a Morel dealer and maybe he still is considered a “dealer” so maybe some incentive there. From what I’ve heard though you are in great hands and hope you find what you’re looking for (queue U2 music😂). I have heard an install with mw6’s in kicks and they dug deep! Coincidentally they replaced gb60’s in doors so a difference in installs but midbass was really impressive from the kicks. Steve will make you happy no doubt! By the way I’m in Nola if you’re ever in the neighborhood. Dave


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> Eaton, your door panel pictured, silver drivers door? Not sealed, not even close!!! There are openings around the woofer in the card. You have wires coming in front of the card with a huge gap. That just won’t work and I don’t care what driver you use, the best driver will never overcome an install issue and an unsealed baffle is the worst. Wish I’d seen this sooner or someone had mentioned it. Thats why you have no output!! I run my GB60’s IB in a totally sealed door card and these things are incredible!! I have no gaps, none. My wires run through sealed boots as well.
> View attachment 334679
> View attachment 334680


If this is meant for me, the OP, Eatmore Bacon, thats not my door. Thanks though.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

UNBROKEN said:


> He’s convinced himself it’s a driver issue it seems and now he’s found a big name that wants him to swap drivers. He’s gotten a lot of sound advice in this thread…all of which he’s chosen to ignore. It is what it is.


Seems to me you are either a little AF blind or haven't read my posts. I agreed its more than likely a tune issue. I just don't choose to stay with AF for the mid bass. Simple as that. Like I said before, drivers are subjective. Are they good drivers? Absolutely. Are they the best drivers for my application? Maybe or maybe not. The Morels give me the ability to cross them at a lower Hz than the frogs if need be. Every vehicle is different.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

DaveG said:


> I too was kinda surprised he turned his nose at the gb60’s. He did Erin’s Honda using gb60’s and if anyone knows speakers it’s Erin! Steve was a Morel dealer and maybe he still is considered a “dealer” so maybe some incentive there. From what I’ve heard though you are in great hands and hope you find what you’re looking for (queue U2 music😂). I have heard an install with mw6’s in kicks and they dug deep! Coincidentally they replaced gb60’s in doors so a difference in installs but midbass was really impressive from the kicks. Steve will make you happy no doubt! By the way I’m in Nola if you’re ever in the neighborhood. Dave


Thanks, Dave. Im right down the street in Mobile.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Seems to me you are either a little AF blind or haven't read my posts. I agreed its more than likely a tune issue. I just don't choose to stay with AF for the mid bass. Simple as that. Like I said before, drivers are subjective. Are they good drivers? Absolutely. Are they the best drivers for my application? Maybe or maybe not. The Morels give me the ability to cross them at a lower Hz than the frogs if need be. Every vehicle is different.


No reason to cross lower than 70-80….like I said early on let the sub come up the match. THAT is where the midbass is. It’s not coming from your doors alone. TA and tune…if your install is good you already have solid midbass you just haven’t brought it out the right way yet.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

UNBROKEN said:


> No reason to cross lower than 70-80….like I said early on let the sub come up the match. THAT is where the midbass is. It’s not coming from your doors alone. TA and tune…if your install is good you already have solid midbass you just haven’t brought it out the right way yet.


Got it. I just choose to move on to a driver with lessor abilities so its on me. Hows that? I haven't ignored anything anyone has said. Quite the contrary. I have followed the advise of countless people on this site. Most good, some not. Right now I have my vehicle with a known professional and so he's gonna carry a little more weight at this point.


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## Esscueonly (Nov 25, 2021)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Got it. I just choose to move on to a driver with lessor abilities so its on me. Hows that? I haven't ignored anything anyone has said. Quite the contrary. I have followed the advise of countless people on this site. Most good, some not. Right now I have my vehicle with a known professional and so he's gonna carry a little more weight at this point.


I hope Steve can get it to your liking. It's your money. Spend as you choose. Too many of us see solutions through our own wallets and experiences. Plus, you'll have no trouble selling those AF.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Esscueonly said:


> I hope Steve can get it to your liking. It's your money. Spend as you choose. Too many of us see solutions through our own wallets and experiences. Plus, you'll have no trouble selling those AF.


Thanks. Kinda strange to agree with the solution but be castigated for swapping drivers. I may not need to swap but I simply choose to move on. Thanks for helping get me pointed in the right direction.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Thanks. Kinda strange to agree with the solution but be castigated for swapping drivers. I may not need to swap but I simply choose to move on. Thanks for helping get me pointed in the right direction.


Had to google that one! Learned at least that tonight hanging out with you guys! Thanks


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> If this is meant for me, the OP, Eatmore Bacon, thats not my door. Thanks though.


I thought this was your door since you posted it?


Eatmore Bacon said:


> If this is meant for me, the OP, Eatmore Bacon, thats not my door. Thanks though.


 This not your door?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

DaveG said:


> Had to google that one! Learned at least that tonight hanging out with you guys! Thanks
> View attachment 334717


I contribute all I can, Dave! 😀


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> I thought this was your door since you posted it?
> This not your door?
> View attachment 334718


Yeah, thats my door. The one you originally posted is not unless I simply misunderstood your post and thats your door you used as an example.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Yeah, thats my door. The one you originally posted is not unless I simply misunderstood your post and thats your door.


That's my door I posted. Your problem is too many air gaps causing cancellation. I knew if I could see your door card I'd know if it was an install issue, I had to zoom in to see the issues. You have to many large gaps close to the baffle hole. Nothing will work until that's addressed. I wouldn't count the GB's out until that was done, then do a comparison to any drivers you want.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> That's my door I posted. Your problem is too many air gaps causing cancellation. I knew if I could see your door card I'd know if it was an install issue, I had to zoom in to see the issues. You have to many large gaps close to the baffle hole. Nothing will work until that's addressed. I wouldn't count the GB's out until that was done, then do a comparison to any drivers you want.


Thanks for pointing it out. Thats also something I asked Steve to look at when he installs the Morels. The door panels "hook" into the door frame in several spots so making these doors "sealed" will be impossible. Maybe some closed cell foam between the panel and the frame around the perimeter of the hooks. Plus look at the door lock linkage. No way to seal that. This is also the first photo taken quite a while back. More has been done since then. Im sure Steve can address whatever he finds.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Some of those are far enough from the baffle it won’t be an issue. Closed cell foam where it will seal between card and door panel should do fine. Also a way to direct the sound out the grill and keep it from resonating behind the door panel. Door panels are just a ton of work no matter how you look at it.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> Some of those are far enough from the baffle it won’t be an issue. Closed cell foam where it will seal between card and door panel should do fine. Also a way to direct the sound out the grill and keep it from resonating behind the door panel. Door panels are just a ton of work no matter how you look at it.


Yeah thats a fact. My flooring took longer simply due to the amount of layment but the doors were more tedious. Thats the original I took before installing the drivers. I did a good bit after that. Then Keith Payne, my fabricator, did more. before it was over everything was sealed with exception of the panel hook holes and the door lock linkage. It was a PITA. Especially the inside deadening. These doors don't have large cutouts like some.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Thanks. Kinda strange to agree with the solution but be castigated for swapping drivers. I may not need to swap but I simply choose to move on. Thanks for helping get me pointed in the right direction.


Sorry you were _lambasted_, seems to me I see people selling GB60's quite often, _sans being harangued_...

Perhaps they just not bacon eaters...(lol)


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> Eaton, your door panel pictured, silver drivers door? Not sealed, not even close!!! There are openings around the woofer in the card. You have wires coming in front of the card with a huge gap. That just won’t work and I don’t care what driver you use, the best driver will never overcome an install issue and an unsealed baffle is the worst. Wish I’d seen this sooner or someone had mentioned it. Thats why you have no output!! I run my GB60’s IB in a totally sealed door card and these things are incredible!! I have no gaps, none. My wires run through sealed boots as well.
> View attachment 334679
> View attachment 334680


This install is garbage. No wonder they sound like crap. Get rid of that baffle rubber surround and make new solid speaker adapters. Run wires properly. This is a joke.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

619Tundra said:


> This install is garbage. No wonder they sound like crap. Get rid of that baffle rubber surround and make new solid speaker adapters. Run wires properly. This is a joke.


Lol. That’s @RNBRAD door you are critiquing. I don’t have rubber surround. My pic didn’t have the driver installed yet as it wasn’t complete. I wouldn’t call his door deadening garbage either. Didn’t look bad to me.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Lol. That’s @RNBRAD door you are critiquing. I don’t have rubber surround. My pic didn’t have the driver installed yet as it wasn’t complete. I wouldn’t call his door deadening garbage either. Didn’t look bad to me.


Pure garbage.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Lol. That’s @RNBRAD door you are critiquing. I don’t have rubber surround. My pic didn’t have the driver installed yet as it wasn’t complete. I wouldn’t call his door deadening garbage either. Didn’t look bad to me.


Lol. He’s making blind assumptions. My critique was based on a non-sealed baffle I could see. Also the silicone baffles are excellent!! Not only do they create a seal at the speaker, they protect the back from weather and direct the sound and seal it to the inner grill. Silicone has better performance than foam. Anyone questions them, just A/B them or RTA them.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

619Tundra said:


> Pure garbage.


Well it one thing to try and help folks here by pointing out some shortcomings. It’s another to just be a flame thrower. That’s toxic man. Happy much? And I never stated they sounded like crap. I just wasn’t happy with them.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> Lol. He’s making blind assumptions. My critique was based on a non-sealed baffle I could see. Also the silicone baffles are excellent!! Not only do they create a seal at the speaker, they protect the back from weather and direct the sound and seal it to the inner grill. Silicone has better performance than foam. Anyone questions them, just A/B them or RTA them.


Yeah I don’t see where his critique was called for. Totally out of line.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Yeah I don’t see where his critique was called for. Totally out of line.


Almost like he took it personal. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

RNBRAD said:


> Almost like he took it personal. 🤷🏻‍♂️


I don’t get it either, brother. Sometimes there are inmates here that forget what the DIY stands for in DIYMobileAudio


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## JBL4312A (8 mo ago)

Any tuners out there for threads?...cux this one has WAY too much distortion.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

wow.


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## Paul S. (Sep 12, 2021)

lol hehehehehehehehe...


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## ezmason (Nov 6, 2019)

These seem very accurate to me with no boom boom


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Didn't read the entire article, but I do know it's hard to get SOLID mid-bass from anything less than an 8". Especially if not in a completely sealed enclosure. It took 8" Dynaudio's with a dedicated amp to get my mid-bass sounding good.


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## PDCAMP2102 (Mar 31, 2011)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> 2015 F-250


I think one of the main problems here is that if the pics that the OP posted are of his vehicle, and if you compare to what year vehicle he said he has, these are two totally different things.

The door pic he posted is not the door of a 2015 F150 13th gen. 
This is a door of a 12th gen F150.

The 13th gen to current F150 does not have a depth issue when using a GB60 and the door panel doesn’t have to be modified.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

jackal28 said:


> Didn't read the entire article, but I do know it's hard to get SOLID mid-bass from anything less than an 8". Especially if not in a completely sealed enclosure. It took 8" Dynaudio's with a dedicated amp to get my mid-bass sounding good.


This is completely false.


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## jheat2500 (Mar 1, 2021)

I don't know if some people confuse "mid-bass" with "sub-bass" or I have low expectations, but I feel like I have great mid-bass from my door mounted midbass drivers. My inner door panels are SOLID from the factory which I'm sure helps greatly, along with treatment I added, but I'm not running 8" drivers or enclosures.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

PDCAMP2102 said:


> I think one of the main problems here is that if the pics that the OP posted are of his vehicle, and if you compare to what year vehicle he said he has, these are two totally different things.
> 
> The door pic he posted is not the door of a 2015 F150 13th gen.
> This is a door of a 12th gen F150.
> ...


The pics I posted that do not have the driver installed yet are from my 2015 F-250. It’s not and F-150. I don’t have clearance issues as long as I don’t got past 3” of depth. You then run into the window track.


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## Mechanic79843 (May 22, 2020)

People are just buying expensive speakers and thinking the more they pay for them the better they will sound.


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## bilboaudio (Jan 7, 2020)

Novice question, but if you have measured with REW and a decent mic and you are hitting your target curve does that not mean you have mid bass, do people who say they have no mid bass see a big hole in that area when measuring with REW? Or is it how is sounds vs how it is measured different?


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Utopia M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Mechanic79843 said:


> People are just buying expensive speakers and thinking the more they pay for them the better they will sound.


That’s a pretty broad statement. There are numerous factors that would have to be considered. 
Does your amp produce clean power? It will greatly affect the speakers performance so if you buy high end drivers your never going to get the most out of your system. What are the goals for your system? If your a bass head then reference speakers probably aren’t high on your list of things you want to invest in. 
what drivers are you comparing? No doubt there are probably some advertised high end drivers out there that may not perform any better than some lessor priced drivers. But to say that a set of Scars perform as well as the GB60’s, Utopia’s, or Morel Elates, etc. in an SQ system simply doesn’t hold water. And of course the tune will make a difference but that goes without saying.


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## Willbo (Mar 23, 2014)

Have you gotten your truck back? Curious to hear about the difference.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Willbo said:


> Have you gotten your truck back? Curious to hear about the difference.


I am going to get it early next week. Memorial Day Weekend kinda screwed us up from getting it this weekend due to previous plans and it wont be finished before Sunday.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

The truck is finished. See pics of what was found when he went to swap the frogs for the Morels. No wonder they sounded like ****e.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Here are the Morels properly installed and with a proper baffle.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

After the swap he found one midrange out of phase. Updated the Helix software that was just released. Now it has a proper tune. 
In Steve’s words “It sounds killer”. He described it as a very wide stage and everything in on point. Can’t wait to hear it. Picking it up on Monday.


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## BenRX350 (12 mo ago)

Someone installed $1000 speakers like that? It looked very bad.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

BenRX350 said:


> Someone installed $1000 speakers like that? It looked very bad.


Yes. That was what was behind the Dynamat. Sad to say this was done by an experienced guy in the business. He did an awesome job on the mid range pods and reworking the tweeter sails that the first shop screwed up but totally missed doing the doors correctly


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

No wonder you weren’t satisfied with the frogs! That’s a-shame someone sent that out. Hopefully the end is near! Update us when you hear it.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> The truck is finished. See pics of what was found when he went to swap the frogs for the Morels. No wonder they sounded like ****e.
> View attachment 336574
> 
> View attachment 336576
> ...












Doesn’t seem like the frogs were the issue at all.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Unfortunate you didn't actually get to hear what the frogs are actually capable of.


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## Caustic (May 13, 2018)

Well that's unfortunate.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

@ Eatmore Bacon, I am over in Daphne, Al. & maybe one day we will have a proper SQ competition in this area so that we can listen to more than 1 system at a time.

Because my GB60s sound very good to me. They replaced Focal K2 6.5”


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Unfortunate you didn't actually get to hear what the frogs are actually capable of.


I agree. I guess the lesson is don’t expect to have car audio installs done properly anywhere near my area. I had him look over the entire system and everything else was great so considering I did quite a bit myself that was a positive.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

KillerBox said:


> @ Eatmore Bacon, I am over in Daphne, Al. & maybe one day we will have a proper SQ competition in this area so that we can listen to more than 1 system at a time.
> 
> Because my GB60s sound very good to me. They replaced Focal K2 6.5”


I’d like to hear it. I’m in Satsuma so maybe we can meet up one day after July 4 and I can check them out. I travel through there from time to time.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

after the fact, but why didn't Steve pop a door panel before selling you new speakers you obviously didn't need? everyone here told you it was the tune or the install of the GB60's that was the problem, not the driver. But i am glad you are happy.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> after the fact, but why didn't Steve pop a door panel before selling you new speakers you obviously didn't need? everyone here told you it was the tune or the install of the GB60's that was the problem, not the driver. But i am glad you are happy.


He did Because as it turns out one of the frog drivers had failed. I saw the last guy make them slap messing with the system trying to get response correct. I also was constantly checking and resetting gains so who’s to say what happened. Steve did what I asked and then some. And it didn’t cost an arm and a leg to get everything corrected outside of the replacement cost of the drivers. I got them quite a bit cheaper than the frogs as well.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> He did Because as it turns out one of the frog drivers had failed. I saw the last guy make them slap messing with the system trying to get response correct. I also was constantly checking and resetting gains so who’s to say what happened. Steve did what I asked and then some. And it didn’t cost an arm and a leg to get everything corrected outside of the replacement cost of the drivers. I got them quite a bit cheaper than the frogs as well.


gotcha!! I am all about buying anything you want for whatever reason. And i know steve is one of the best. Just looking out for you is all.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> gotcha!! I am all about buying anything you want for whatever reason. And i know steve is one of the best. Just looking out for you is all.


Crazy thing is I actually would have had it back already but he had a battery charger failure that was hooked up to his competition car inside his shop. Blew his sound system batteries up in the trunk of the Cadillac. He had to pause my little project and get that sorted out. Ruined amps and all kinds of stuff in the car. Feel bad for him. I think he has everything back together on his car now other than getting the fuel cell replaced. Acid ate into the top of it. Just nuts.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around that original install. Did they just screw the gb60s to the door with some sheet metal screws and use a couple scrap pieces of abs to try and block the holes? Or was there actually an adapter there that blew out?


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## Caustic (May 13, 2018)

Looks like some haggard flimsy adapter was made, and then easily destroyed when the dynamat was removed?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> I'm still trying to wrap my head around that original install. Did they just screw the gb60s to the door with some sheet metal screws and use a couple scrap pieces of abs to try and block the holes? Or was there actually an adapter there that blew out?


I have no idea and I was afraid to ask, to be quite honest. He described it as a mess. I would say based on the pics that that’s a huge understatement. I had my mid range in the doors and mid bass in some kicks before I decided to swap it around and bring the midrange up higher. He may have used my ABS adapter that I personally made and modified/added to it for frogs. Don’t know. All I know is it now corrected, as you can see. Like I said before, the guy that installed the frogs has been doing this for 30+ years. Maybe he reached a point to where he just didn’t give a crap. Yet he did do a great job on the tweeter sails and mid range pods.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> I have no idea and I was afraid to ask, to be quite honest. He described it as a mess. I would say based on the pics that that’s a huge understatement. I had my mid range in the doors and mid bass in some kicks before I decided to swap it around and bring the midrange up higher. He may have used my ABS adapter that I personally made and modified/added to it for frogs. Don’t know. All I know is it now corrected, as you can see. Like I said before, the guy that installed the frogs has been doing this for 30+ years. Maybe he reached a point to where he just didn’t give a crap. Yet he did do a great job on the tweeter sails and mid range pods.


May have been given to someone at the shop that cut corners, or could just be one of those "he won't be able to see it behind the panel" sorta things. Either way, im eagerly awaiting your thoughts on the new setup!
Proper midbass makes a world of difference. I just switched my bridged JL 600/4 over to a second mosconi zero 4, and it changed the dynamics of the entire system entirely. Made it much more enjoyable to listen to.
I hope this does the same for you!


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> May have been given to someone at the shop that cut corners, or could just be one of those "he won't be able to see it behind the panel" sorta things. Either way, im eagerly awaiting your thoughts on the new setup!
> Proper midbass makes a world of difference. I just switched my bridged JL 600/4 over to a second mosconi zero 4, and it changed the dynamics of the entire system entirely. Made it much more enjoyable to listen to.
> I hope this does the same for you!


Thanks! I’m excited to finally hear it at its full potential. Considering how good it seems to sound to Steve that gives me a really good feeling. Stay tuned!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Thanks! I’m excited to finally hear it at its full potential. Considering how good it seems to sound to Steve that gives me a really good feeling. Stay tuned!


Well, just Steve's hands on the tune in this system will definitely bring it up to it's potential.

But honestly, it didn't have a chance in hell of even sounding "okay'ish" with one of the mids out of polarity, AND with the GB60's mounted in the doors by a juvenile monkey.

I honestly think that you should publicly "call out" the installer or shop that did this work. FFS. Why? Because it's the ethical thing to do.

Before you saw this travesty, you and others probably would have kept recommending them to others, and many others will be spending good money on top shelf speakers and what is supposed to be a SOLID, professional install, only to have their expensive drivers blown (no fault of their own) and their system sound like crap! This is NOT okay...I don't care how nice the rest of the install was.

*If this guy has really been in the car audio installation business for 30 years (or even half that), HOW MANY others do you think are also driving around in their vehicles with similar unknown issues after having paid a good bit of money for the equipment and the install by this douchebag???*

Seriously, getting all of the drivers wired up in proper polarity and confirming it before moving forward is basic "Car Audio 101"!

And in order to have this remedied _properly_, this BS cost you a huge and _unnecessary_ chunk of money, AND a significant amount of Time without your vehicle.

It takes a lot to get me riled up, but if I had paid money for the previous install of those GB60's and then found "that" when I pulled the door panels, someone would probably be in the hospital for a bit, LOL. 

There is NO EXCUSE for this type of work. And it's even worse when they think it's okay because they have hidden it from you.

Always demand photos of EVERY aspect of your install when paying a shop to do the work, especially the inaccessible areas that will be hidden when completed. And offer to pay extra for this service. It is worth every penny. If they don't agree to do this, I would just say thank you and move on. EVERYONE has a smartphone with a camera that is simple to use and adequate for this purpose.


*With all that said, this is your first post in this thread...*



Eatmore Bacon said:


> I gave the GB60's a shot and just wasn't happy with the results. *I mounted them in the doors* but I just couldn't get enough mid bass up front, which seems to be a challenge. So maybe I need to go to a driver that leans more toward a woofer. Just not sure. Depth of the driver is limited to about 3" depending on the excursion. Max size is between a 6.5 and 7" driver. Anyone else go with a small woofer in place of a true mid bass?


And another one of your posts on the first page:



Eatmore Bacon said:


> *Everything is sealed *and* I used speed rings around the drivers to push the sound forward through the grills.* I will post pics of before and after on the grills tomorrow morning. I don't have confidence in anyone local that can tune a DSP, unfortunately. I know I have great equipment *and I know the install is correct.* Gotta be the tune.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

bbfoto said:


> Well, just Steve's hands on the tune in this system will definitely bring it up to it's potential.
> 
> But honestly, it didn't have a chance in hell of even sounding "okay'ish" with one of the mids out of polarity, AND with the GB60's mounted in the doors by a juvenile monkey.
> 
> ...


I wouldn’t recommend ANY local shop down here. Not one. There is nothing down here but bass head shops and even they are terrible.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

bbfoto said:


> Well, just Steve's hands on the tune in this system will definitely bring it up to it's potential.
> 
> But honestly, it didn't have a chance in hell of even sounding "okay'ish" with one of the mids out of polarity, AND with the GB60's mounted in the doors by a juvenile monkey.
> 
> ...


Well if you were sent this pic what would you think? And I already had the speed rings. Everything appears to be sealed but it’s apparently the mounting. I’m not quite sure what you are saying.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

So check this out. I went back through my texts that he sent me before the ones above. It shows what he did. I was out of town at work when he sent them so I didn’t look too closely. Guess I should have questioned this but I figured he knew more than me so why worry.

















Looks like he mounted the drivers and just filled gaps. At least when I installed the midrange there I actually fabricated a one piece ABS adapter and used closed cell foam between the driver to ABS and ABS to the door.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

@Eatmore Bacon 

I’m sure you know this but looking at the poor seal around that GB60 and gaps that allow the back sound wave to canel out the front sound wave, and anyone here can tell you that this would never sound right. WOW!


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## Caustic (May 13, 2018)

Christ on a crutch, shameful.

And the dynamat doesn't even look like it was rolled on correctly, just kind of loosely stuck on and maybe a once over with some gentle hand pressure.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Well if you were sent this pic what would you think? And I already had the speed rings. Everything appears to be sealed but it’s apparently the mounting. I’m not quite sure what you are saying.
> View attachment 336663
> 
> View attachment 336664


Not to speak for BB but it seems from what he quoted there’s a lot of I did this/I know it’s sealed/I know I know!! Weather you did this or not who cares. Either way I’m jealous you got to have steve work on and tune your ride. I’m sure you’ll be very happy with the outcome and that’s all that matters even if it cost you more along the way. Enjoy it!


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

JCsAudio said:


> @Eatmore Bacon
> 
> I’m sure you know this but looking at the poor seal around that GB60 and gaps that allow the back sound wave to canel out the front sound wave, and anyone here can tell you that this would never sound right. WOW!
> 
> View attachment 336694


Yeah, I just wasn’t paying attention close enough when he sent this to me. I just figured he had it handled. If I would have had time to do it, guess I should have made time, I would duplicated what I did below. He did the mid range pods and tweeter sails really well. I just don’t get it.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

clange2485 said:


> Not to speak for BB but it seems from what he quoted there’s a lot of I did this/I know it’s sealed/I know I know!! Weather you did this or not who cares. Either way I’m jealous you got to have steve work on and tune your ride. I’m sure you’ll be very happy with the outcome and that’s all that matters even if it cost you more along the way. Enjoy it!


Ahhh. He was insinuating that I did this and put it on some mythical car audio guy? Lol. Oh ok. Maybe I should have clearly stated that I HAD the drivers installed instead of I installed. I’ve made a few mistakes on this build but this isn’t one of them. See above how I did my mids when I personally installed them in my door the first go around. I have a build thread that shows everything that I personally did including a few mistakes early on but that was building my sub enclosure. Not sure why I would post photos of what was found wrong then pin it on someone else. That’s juvenile. If I mess up I own it. I’m not trying to impress anyone here, I will assure you.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

bbfoto said:


> Well, just Steve's hands on the tune in this system will definitely bring it up to it's potential.
> 
> But honestly, it didn't have a chance in hell of even sounding "okay'ish" with one of the mids out of polarity, AND with the GB60's mounted in the doors by a juvenile monkey.
> 
> ...


Here’s the original text there bb. Hope this answers your question.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Oh my Lord. He used a floating metal bracket with holes in it as a way to screw one of the mounting holes down. It probably blew the one speakers from a flexing basket.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Oh my Lord. He used a floating metal bracket with holes in it as a way to screw one of the mounting holes down. It probably blew the one speakers from a flexing basket.


Man I know. Steve knows the guy too. They worked together in the past. Im not gonna dis on the guy too much. Yeah he jacked it up but it’s a lesson learned. Sad. He’s a super nice dude too. He just missed this one…bad.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Here’s the original text there bb. Hope this answers your question.
> View attachment 336708


Like i said I wasn’t speaking for bb that’s just how i took it and that text message makes it sound even worse and should have thrown up a red flag from the get go. This isn’t 1989 there’s no reason to screw the speaker straight to the door and half ass fill the gaps. The factory mounting points don’t even seem that far off and from the looks of it could have been used for a solid bracket to attach to.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

clange2485 said:


> Like i said I wasn’t speaking for bb that’s just how i took it and that text message makes it sound even worse and should have thrown up a red flag from the get go. This isn’t 1989 there’s no reason to screw the speaker straight to the door and half ass fill the gaps. The factory mounting points don’t even seem that far off and from the looks of it could have been used for a solid bracket to attach to.


I totally agree. I simply didn’t pay much attention to it when it came in. I saw the first pic and told myself “great the speakers are installed” and moved on. Should have done it myself. I just figured he could knock it out while he had it there for the sails and pods.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

And here’s his work that was done really well. Sails and pods.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> I totally agree. I simply didn’t pay much attention to it when it came in. I saw the first pic and told myself “great the speakers are installed” and moved on. Should have done it myself. I just figured he could knock it out while he had it there for the sails and pods.



I totally get it and when you pay someone with supposedly that much experience and based on how the others look, you shouldn’t have to babysit or worry about the install. Unfortunately it just didn’t work out and it ended up costing you money. Hopefully it’s all audio bliss moving forward.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Man I know. Steve knows the guy too. They worked together in the past. Im not gonna dis on the guy too much. Yeah he jacked it up but it’s a lesson learned. Sad. He’s a super nice dude too. He just missed this one…bad.


That's brutal dude. My guess is that he got a case of scope creep on the tweets and mids, and realized he underbid on hours for the job. But either way, it's in the past now.
I'm just second hand pissed hahah


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Here’s the original text there bb. Hope this answers your question.
> View attachment 336708



Ironically, the "Doom" in the text he sent you was right! 

Sorry to insinuate and point blame, mate, BUT you have to admit that there was indeed A LOT of "I did this" and "I know that" in your posts without any clear evidence to the contrary!

Unfortunately, the installer actually did send you enough information in both text and photographic form to cause the alarm bells to ring, and for whatever reason you just didn't catch it. 

I still hold fast to my comment that this installer is a complete monkey. NOBODY with 30+ years of car audio experience, or even 5 years experience, mounts even an average 6.5" coaxial to the bare metal OEM speaker opening of a door, let alone an expensive high-end driver!

FFS, the OEM metal speaker opening is a 5x7 oval, and the speaker is a round 6.5" driver. There HAS to be SOME sort of solid adapter ring and baffle to provide a flat, secure, completely sealed mount for the 6.5" speaker!

@Picassotheimpaler is most likely correct when he pointed out that your installer's "technique" or "mounting solution" resulted in uneven flexing of the basket of the GB60. And once bent, die-cast aluminum does not return to its original form. 

Did you purchase the GB60s, or did the installer provide them? If it was the installer, and even if not, at the very least I would hit him up for a warranty replacement for your blown GB60. If he is an Audiofrog dealer and Andy sees these photos, I think Andy would make it right and supply a new driver to you (even though he shouldn't due to the installer's sheer negligence!), and then not supply future AF product to him.

Installers (and threads) such as this unnecessarily paint manufacturers of high-quality, excellent products in a bad light, and cost manufacturers thousands of dollars in losses.  And thousands of dollars in losses to customers like you as well.

Early on in the thread the majority of us were all pointing to an INSTALLATION issue and/or poor tuning. Even with basic, rudimentary crossovers and T/A with no EQ, the GB60s would have provided plenty of midbass output if installed properly! The only instance I could imagine them not performing well is if the subwoofer happened to be at or very close to 180° out of phase at the listening position.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> And here’s his work that was done really well. Sails and pods.
> 
> View attachment 336716



How can an installer go to the trouble to create custom acrylic mounting rings like the ones for the midrange pods and NOT do something at least similar for the door mounted Midwoofers??? 

I just don't get it, except as was previously stated, if it was due to time and budget creep pressures. Even still, an ethical and honest person would suck it up to experience and go ahead and "do it right" even if he had to take a hit or loss. It is NOT the customer's fault that the installer misjudged the time and work needed to properly complete the install.

Anyway, I'll get off the negativity train now. This kind of thing just PISSES ME OFF to no end.

You should have an AMAZING system now. Enjoy it!


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

I can’t believe that Keith Payne installed midbasses in this manner.


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## Caustic (May 13, 2018)

Time creep or not, it would have taken maybe an hour and 20 bucks worth of Walmart cutting board or even scrap plywood that had some treatment and mount those EXPENSIVE ASS speakers in a reasonable manner because that is unreasonable. I would have been happier with him saying he ran out of time and money, he'd need a supplement and another day to get them installed right, over that travesty he let leave his shop/garage/shed whatever.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> That's brutal dude. My guess is that he got a case of scope creep on the tweets and mids, and realized he underbid on hours for the job. But either way, it's in the past now.
> I'm just second hand pissed hahah


That could of been the case but seriously how long would it have taken to do that right. If it was me in my driveway probably way to long lol but a shop should be able to knock that out pretty quick.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

clange2485 said:


> That could of been the case but seriously how long would it have taken to do that right. If it was me in my driveway probably way to long lol but a shop should be able to knock that out pretty quick.


Agreed. But if you're already a day back from a messed up glass job or something, an extra hour and materials to make a proper baffle or something could be thought of as a place to recoup some money. But either way, it doesn't matter at this point.
Sure OP is getting tired of hearing about it lol


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

I appreciate the sympathies but what’s done is done. Like I said, he really is capable of doing excellent work. He just totally goofed on that portion and if I had read the text I would have either called it out or just re-worked it myself. The great news is that I travel to Steve’s place tomorrow to pick up what should be an awesome sound system. The only thing left that I may do is install a Helix HEC BT module. I will report back after I get the truck. Can’t wait.


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## audionow (Oct 29, 2021)

What a mess, I can see why they hid everything under the dynamat. This is why a lot of us "Do It Your Self" type of people do it our self.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

KillerBox said:


> I can’t believe that Keith Payne installed midbasses in this manner.


I wasn’t gonna throw his entire name out there but yeah. It happened. I was as shocked as you.


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Is it a one-man shop? The pods and the doors seem like the work of two very different people. Just wondering if that might be what we're seeing.

<edit ...not that this would in any way absolve the shop owner of full responsibility for such shoddy work. >

Anyway, glad you got it sorted out.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Grinder said:


> Is it a one-man shop? The pods and the doors seem like the work of two very different people. Just wondering if that might be what we're seeing.
> 
> <edit ...not that this would in any way absolve the shop owner of full responsibility for such shoddy work. >
> 
> Anyway, glad you got it sorted out.


One man shop. I agree. Looks like two totally different people.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I gotta ask.. who did that first install?

edit: nevermind


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> I gotta ask.. who did that first install?
> 
> edit: nevermind


Actually the FIRST install was done by a company named Ultimate Audio Fabrication. The kept my truck for over a month. Fabricated my tweeter sails incorrectly and made mid bass kicks that were too small for the drivers and positioned the drivers side kick to where I couldn’t use my emergency brake. Keith totally redid the tweeter sails the correct way, moved my mid range from the doors to the custom pods, and installed the frogs in the doors. To say this has been a journey is a huge understatement.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

It would have taken less time to do it right. It’s quick to cut a baffle. How long did he take messing with that floating bracket and crap?


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Niebur3 said:


> It would have taken less time to do it right. It’s quick to cut a baffle. How long did he take messing with that floating bracket and crap?


And yet it happened... There must be a reason.

Walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. Must be a duck. Seems at least plausible that the installer had a "helper" that we don't know about.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

The bad thing is Ultimate Audio Fabrication & Keith Payne are known as two of the best in this area. 

But as Eatmore Bacon said, we have a lot of SPL shops but, I don't know of one shop that specializes in SQ in a 300 mile radius.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Niebur3 said:


> It would have taken less time to do it right. It’s quick to cut a baffle. How long did he take messing with that floating bracket and crap?


Correct. And not only that, it took him more time to remove and clean what was there than it did to install the new stuff correctly.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

And neither knows how to tune via DSP. One said they typically do it by ear which tells me he is doing with the standard EQ and not the parametric.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Well what an eventful day. Traveled 5 hrs to Steve’s house. Talked about everything outside of car audio for about 15 minutes then it was time to see what the system sounded like. Played a little “Hey Nineteen” from Steely Dan. Sounded amazing. Defined, crisp sound on a wide stage. The tweeters are on axis just a bit too much but not much I can do about that. We played with the tweeter levels a bit to get them as balanced as possible. The tweeter highs kind of wrap around you but don’t actually beam so it isn’t bad at all. Next up was Little Guitars from Van Halen. It was there that I heard a crackling sound from the left mid range. Steve heard it too. Almost like a blown speaker sound. We checked everything physically and then through the software. Speaker is good. We thought it may be a small piece of lint or something on the voice coil. You can see the coil threw a small gap. Or Steve said it could be something with that one channel. He didn’t experience it during tuning and testing. We played a few more tracks and it never showed up again. 
The system sounds really really good. He set up the master volume on the Conductor so the head unit stays on the max allowable sound level and volume is easier to manage. Really like it. There is one thing I will change in the coming days which I spoke to him about. I played a lot of different genre’s on my long trek back and noticed some tunes needed a little more base due to the recording. He has the bass at -7db right now. I would rather play the bass at a lower range and bring it up as needed for those tracks that need extra bass. I will take it to -4db in the coming days. Other than that it’s just awesome. 
This has been quite the journey but happy to say the end result is quite satisfying.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> Well what an eventful day. Traveled 5 hrs to Steve’s house. Talked about everything outside of car audio for about 15 minutes then it was time to see what the system sounded like. Played a little “Hey Nineteen” from Steely Dan. Sounded amazing. Defined, crisp sound on a wide stage. The tweeters are on axis just a bit too much but not much I can do about that. We played with the tweeter levels a bit to get them as balanced as possible. The tweeter highs kind of wrap around you but don’t actually beam so it isn’t bad at all. Next up was Little Guitars from Van Halen. It was there that I heard a crackling sound from the left mid range. Steve heard it too. Almost like a blown speaker sound. We checked everything physically and then through the software. Speaker is good. We thought it may be a small piece of lint or something on the voice coil. You can see the coil threw a small gap. Or Steve said it could be something with that one channel. He didn’t experience it during tuning and testing. We played a few more tracks and it never showed up again.
> The system sounds really really good. He set up the master volume on the Conductor so the head unit stays on the max allowable sound level and volume is easier to manage. Really like it. There is one thing I will change in the coming days which I spoke to him about. I played a lot of different genre’s on my long trek back and noticed some tunes needed a little more base due to the recording. He has the bass at -7db right now. I would rather play the bass at a lower range and bring it up as needed for those tracks that need extra bass. I will take it to -4db in the coming days. Other than that it’s just awesome.
> This has been quite the journey but happy to say the end result is quite satisfying.


Out of curiousity, what do you mean by the tweets are a bit too on axis?


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

the thing angers me the most is that because of ultra poor midbass speakers install, you developed totally wrong impression on equipment - in this case AF midbass drivers. And that install should come from "Respectable" shop,....that is a bit of shock to me if Im ohnest....does those shop owners worry about their reputation???


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Out of curiousity, what do you mean by the tweets are a bit too on axis?


Tweeters are aimed a little too much to their respective sides seat. Left tweeter is aimed at drivers seat. Right tweeter aimed at passenger seat. It’s the same angle as the factory tweeters had.


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

LBaudio said:


> the thing angers me the most is that because of ultra poor midbass speakers install, you developed totally wrong impression on equipment - in this case AF midbass drivers. And that install should come from "Respectable" shop,....that is a bit of shock to me if Im ohnest....does those shop owners worry about their reputation???


They don’t have any competition. Why worry when there is only two shops in a town of 250,000 people.
Edit- There are a few other shops but they simply swap head units and install speakers in factory locations. No fabrication. And they also tint and install alarms.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

That is not a reason for not do the work as it should be done,...he should close the shop and go to sell the vegetables or something. I wouldnt give something like that out of my hands not even if I would do it free of charge...
If there is a big name behind that mess, even worse


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

FFS, folks... 

Presuming it would have taken no more time or materials to install the midbass properly, and presuming there is no lack of knowledge or skills on the part of the installer, is there a more logical assumption than some unknown other person did the work?


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## Eatmore Bacon (Dec 17, 2020)

Grinder said:


> FFS, folks...
> 
> Presuming it would have taken no more time or materials to install the midbass properly, and presuming there is no lack of knowledge or skills on the part of the installer, is there a more logical assumption than some unknown other person did the work?


I’ve never seen anyone else working at his shop other than himself. Maybe he’s more of a fab guy than an install guy?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Eatmore Bacon said:


> I’ve never seen anyone else working at his shop other than himself. Maybe he’s more of a fab guy than an install guy?


IDK, man. Doesn't make any sense. Pretty much the first thing that ANY of us DIY'ers or a noob shop installer learns on their FIRST FRIGGIN' DAY is how to install new door speakers properly!

If you can't do that properly while nearly blind folded and in your sleep after a year or two of doing "a deck & 4" installs every day in a car audio shop (let alone after 30 years, even while drunk AF), *LB* is right...you should be selling fruit n' veggies or flowers on the roadside or digging ditches. 

No joke, that midbass install looks like someone had their green 16 y.o. nephew come over and "Grab whatever you need, Bobby, just screw 'em in that thar hole in'da door!" while out under the shade tree.  I'm actually surprised there weren't punctures in the surrounds from his screwdriver.


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## Mad Scientist (Feb 12, 2017)




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