# Seas W18NX vs Scanspeak 18W



## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

If you had a choice between the two woofers, which one would you choose?

I'm considering these woofers but I'm undecided which one I should go with. My goals are to mate them with the Hiquphon OWIs. Crossover point, I'm not sure of.


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

talk to matt hall aka csuflyboy


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

Does he have aim?


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

yep it's that name...hes on eca too.

He uses the 18w w/ hiq ow1 and the seas in his girls car, he could shed some light for yea.


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

ditto... I want to know which anybody prefers, esp those that have listened to both. I now own a pair of W18nx's but listen to a lot of old live material, some with only fair recordings and find it maybe too revealing. Thinking of switching to Scan Rev's. Any opinions?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

The Seas is clearly more revealing to me, but the Scan has a more "robust" nature that some may prefer. They're both top notch performers with very low coloration and none of the hazy, bloated, or dull sound that's typical of lower quality drivers. Not to mention they both have unbeatable bass performance in a frame size that I would consider is generally the maximum depth that most car doors can accomodate.


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## jay (Sep 12, 2005)

bdubs767 said:


> yep it's that name...hes on eca too.
> 
> He uses the 18w w/ hiq ow1 and the seas in his girls car, he could shed some light for yea.



actually, matt technically uses the genesis absolute 7's in his audi...and robyn's car uses the lotus refs (new version), which is based off the older seas excel mag cone.


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

jay said:


> actually, matt technically uses the genesis absolute 7's


And it is technically the same speaker as the Scan 18W.


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

NaamanF said:


> And it is technically the same speaker as the Scan 18W.



Umm........no it isn't.........


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

My bad. I stand corrected. I was thinking about the 12M.


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

autofile said:


> Umm........no it isn't.........


whats the difference?


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

kappa546 said:


> whats the difference?



I've been told down through a chain that the designer of the rev series said their is no differences, but I may be dead wrong.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I think it's a little rude to correct someone without at least a half hearted attempt at an explanation


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## jay (Sep 12, 2005)

NaamanF said:


> And it is technically the same speaker as the Scan 18W.


i'm sure if someone would like to purchase both and have them tested, we can come to a conclusion...but until then, i can't assume one way or the other. either way, my post was geared more towards pointing out that the lotus mids in robyn's tc is a mag cone, vs the paper/nextel coating of the w18nx's


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

I'm liking my Seas. Oddly, I find them pretty forgiving when playing mixed recordings. I guess it's just because they really have no annoying aspects. Heck, I would even like them better if they offered a hair more crispness/punch/bite/edge whatever you want to call it. Yet, I know my tweeter has a part in the overall presence and helps create a lack of some of that edge I'm looking for. I have been casually looking into swapping in some OW1 tweeters eventually. 

Frequency response is great and EQing about anywhere from 40Hz up by more than a dB or so seems to just upset the balance. I'm used to punchier, heavier low ends, so the Seas to me are quite lax. They play very low, but they don't feel authoritative, kind of goes along the above said punch/bite/etc... line. The sound is just there and nothing really sticks out to grab your attention.

I do find myself curious about if I'd actually prefer the Revolator woofer instead. I do have a slight favoring towards the warmer, richer feel.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I don't think that it's too unreasonable to assume that they have far more similarities than not. The same with the Peerless xls based sub that they're offering.


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

There are some physical differences between the two:



sephiroth619 said:


> Scan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

the manufacturer t-s specs are significantly different as well:

genesis 18w	scan 18W/4831G00
fs / 54.5 Hz / 33 Hz
Re / 3.45 / 3.4
Qm / 8.13	/ 5.2
qe / 0.67	/ 0.38
qt / 0.62	/ 0.35
vas / 14.3 liters / 42 liters
xmax / 6.5mm / 6.5mm

http://www.theautophile.com/products/Absolute18w.html
http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=84


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

bdubs767 said:


> I've been told down through a chain that the designer of the rev series said their is no differences, but I may be dead wrong.


I was told this first hand. But it was in context of the 12m.


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## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

Can someone send me a link for or post recommended sealed/ported enclosures for both the SEAS mid and Scan Speak? I'm referring to manufacturer's recommendations here...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Fellippe said:


> Can someone send me a link for or post recommended sealed/ported enclosures for both the SEAS mid and Scan Speak? I'm referring to manufacturer's recommendations here...


Manufacturer's recommendations for raw home mid/midbass drivers aren't specific like that. They give you the T/S parameters to see if the driver suits your design.


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

just looking at VAS and Qt differences b/w the two, it just looks like its been optimized for a car door.


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

kappa546 said:


> whats the difference?


If you compare the T/S parameters from the stock Scanspeak drivers to those of our Absolutes, you'll find that there are considerable differences.

So, stating that our driver is essentially the same driver as the Scanspeak is like saying that an Audi A4 is essentially the same car as an Audi RS4.

It is incorrect and non-factual.

What IS factual the following:

1) We have our Absolute drivers manfactured for us by Scanspeak in Denmark.

2) Our Absolute drivers are BASED on the Scanspeak Revalator drivers.

3) Scanspeak manufactures our Absolute drivers to OUR specifications.


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

npdang said:


> I think it's a little rude to correct someone without at least a half hearted attempt at an explanation



I suppose it may be, although this same topic has been covered ad naseum, on several different forums. All one has to do is look for the correct information.

I also consider it rude to spread false information due to a lack of education, curiosity for the truth, or rumor mongoring.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

autofile said:


> I suppose it may be, although this same topic has been covered ad naseum, on several different forums. All one has to do is look for the correct information.
> 
> *I also consider it rude to spread false information due to a lack of education*, curiosity for the truth, or rumor mongoring.


Waow, it must suck to be you on a day you make a mistake.


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Waow, it must suck to be you on a day you make a mistake.


Not really. I make mistakes all the time, just like most people.
However if I know not of what I speak, I don't say anything.

I am really not trying to be rude here. 

The Internet is a great source of information, unfortunately it has also become a great source of misinformation for those who choose not to seek truth and only repeat "what they have heard".

My apologies to anyone who I have offended. This was never my intent.

I simply stated a correction, based on factual first hand knowledge and not on heresay, and was reprimanded for doing so.


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

Again another interesting thread has turned into my knowledge is better than yours and my dad can beat up your dad. Please stick to the post please.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Just a thought, but you may want to consider that many of your responses might involve comments from people thay may not be equally familiar with both drivers.

Autofile - I put a smiley face in the hopes that you would not take it the wrong way. It was just a suggestion, not a reprimand.


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## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

The problem is that with any internet forum, its easy to argue. When the same people meet face to face, never an argument....

I don't believe a car door is the perfect enclosure for any woofer. I feel that at best a car door might not be far off an optimized enclosure.

And even if a car door yielded the same or maybe even BETTER performance than an enclosure.......could it ever be as resonance free as an enclosure?


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

autofile said:


> I simply stated a correction, based on factual first hand knowledge and not on heresay, and was reprimanded for doing so.


My knowledge of the drivers is first hand. I was just talking about the wrong one :blush:


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

Seas W18NX vs Scanspeak 18W

For those who have heard either or both, why would you choose one over the other?

midbass response? detailed? ease to implement? price value? smooth response? anything in the corner of the old noggin?


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

NaamanF said:


> My knowledge of the drivers is first hand. I was just talking about the wrong one :blush:



Naaman, I am not referring to whether you have used the Absolute drivers, or whether you have listened to them.
I am not questioning whether you have worked with the product, installed it, owned it, or listened to it. 
In fact I believe that you have a couple of our amplifiers in your truck, if I am not mistaken?
This type of experience with a product is a great value and importance, and certainly qualifies one to state opinions on the performance of the product. however it does not speak to the design or manufacture of the product in question.
What I am speaking about here is whether one has actual knowledge of the drivers manufacture and design.
To the best of my knowledge you are not, nor have you ever been an employee of Genesis ICE. or am I wrong?
If I am correct, then I am afraid that there is little chance that we could share the same information on our products, no matter what you may have been told by others.
There is only one, definitive source of information on Genesis products, and that is the owner and chief designer of Genesis products.
I am the North American importer of Genesis. 
When I provide information on a public forum regarding a Genesis product it is based on the fact that for each and every product we offer, I have direct intimate knowledge of, either through one-on-one training directly from the owner and designer himself, or from myself being directly and personally involved in the original design processes of the product, such as our new Studio speaker system.
There has been a great deal of misinformation stated on various forums regarding several Genesis products, with conclusions based entirely on cosmetic similarities to other products, "they look the same so they must be, or I can assume they ARE in fact the same".
Looks are many times deceiving and do not tell the story of the R&D that goes in to an original product, and I am simply stating that this is one of those cases.


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

I actually had a discussion with someone from Scan Speak that would know the drivers better than anyone else. I discussed it with them because I wanted to get the info from the horses mouth. The Alpines were also brought up along with the Genesis drivers.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I would trust a third party test between the two drivers over the producer's version of things anyday. Let's not forget why businesses sell product, for profit.


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

Agreed, for the most part I treat every salesman the same. In the back of my mind I'm thinking "this guy's job is to sell me this item in any way he can". There are exceptions, but one BS salespitch and Im outta dodge. 

Also what is the price for a pair of those Genesis mids? And why it would be worth the difference in price?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

autofile said:


> Naaman, I am not referring to whether you have used the Absolute drivers, or whether you have listened to them.
> I am not questioning whether you have worked with the product, installed it, owned it, or listened to it.
> In fact I believe that you have a couple of our amplifiers in your truck, if I am not mistaken?
> This type of experience with a product is a great value and importance, and certainly qualifies one to state opinions on the performance of the product. however it does not speak to the design or manufacture of the product in question.
> ...


Even with that said, Genesis needs to make a buck just like the Pyramid does. Whether the owner personally trained your or not, I find it very difficult to believe that he'd personally expose you to every single minute detail of the driver's build. I also wouldn't expect him to say he took a Scan driver off the shelf and marked up the price.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

There's a member over on Nasioc that runs Revelator woofers in his Subaru. I _think_ he has also runs a couple Seas Lotus products. The guy's forum name is schuey_1 You may want to get a hold of him and talk to him for a little bit about what each option has to offer. I don't think he will be able to comment directly on the W18NX specifically as he uses the Lotus stuff, but it should be close enough to define a relative difference between the Seas and Scanspeak options.

Just bringing up the old post on Nasioc:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15375280#post15375280
He started posting at #31. He does provide a few comments, but not much. The thread was on something else, so the focus wasn't exactly Scan vs Seas, lol.

He's apparently on MSN and Yahoo messangers, so you may want to hit him up there and chat for a bit. I'm curious if he's a member of this forum or not. I don't really recall seeing his Nasioc screenname used here but who knows...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Schuey_1 is a good guy, although I don't know why he doesn't post here 

Unfortunately, w18nx is nothing like Seas lotus. Different motor, entirely different suspension, different cone...


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

yea i really havent seen rj on any forum lately. i really liked his old scan/seas/focal setup in the trooper tho


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## Lightninghoof (Aug 6, 2006)

andthelam said:


> Also what is the price for a pair of those Genesis mids? And why it would be worth the difference in price?


x2, how much are they?


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

^From what I've heard, forgot my sources, they're double the price of Revelators.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Peter,

Perhaps you should post detailed information on the popular car audio forums regarding the differences in design and manufacturing between the original Scan-speak drivers and your Genesis derivitives. This information may or may not be on the Genesis web site, but if you are perturbed with the misinformation on the forums, then you should at least offer a "straight from the horses mouth" post specifically about your products. This information would include your design goals for the drivers as opposed to the OEM Scans, T/S specs, and enclosure and crossover recommendations if running active. Everyone would appreciate this information and it will serve to better educate everyone here.

I realize that these questions and topics have been covered many times, but this type of post would still be useful. It is sometimes very frustrating sifting through hundreds of threads to find One Specific Bit of information on a particular product. People respect your knowledge and opinions on the forums and if the mods and others here have seen your posts, they will most likely link to them when a topic such as this comes up.

npdang, perhaps you can add a Section to the DIYMA forums for Manufacturers to Post Information & Specs on their product lines. Some Mfg web sites already have a wealth of information on them, so I realize that this may be redundant, but in this case just post a link to the Mfg's web site for specs, etc. The post should also have contact information for a Tech. Rep., etc. Also Peter, it would be interesting and valuable to some here to see FR and other graphs of your speaker line for comparison to the S-s drivers. 

Now on to the original debate...IME, the Scan 18W has a slightly "meatier" or slightly "thicker" mid-bass response and an overall "smoother," non-fatiguing sound than the W18NX. Not that the W18NX is fatiguing or harsh, or that the 18W is dull. They both offer excellent detail. I am also using the Hiquphon OW1's with the W18NX and REALLY like this combination! I think that the OW1's would also mate extremely well with the W18, too! I just haven't tried this combination myself unfortunately. I planned to, but ran out of time and just had to get the car back together again and never got a chance to try it since I am quite pleased with the NX/OW1 combo.

Basically, if you like a bit more detailed or revealing/"brighter" sound, then go with the NX. If you prefer a slightly more "relaxed" but at the same time "fuller" sound (all the while having plenty of detail,) go with the 18W's. A bit of EQ and XO adjustment will allow either to work exceptionally well. And as always, a LOT of what you achieve will be determined by the install...Locations, Aiming, Mounting, Enclosures, and Tuning, etc.

I really don't think you can go wrong either way. They are both very desirable drivers for resale.


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## GeoffB (Feb 3, 2007)

bbfoto, I remember Gordon Taylor of Genesis ICE more or less did this along time ago on the talkaudio.co.uk forum in the UK under his username [email protected] and even compared them to the Alpines at the time. The info should still be there.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

the both look impresive.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

The t/s specs on the Genesis driver look much better for car door use, as well as the taller backplate for increased bass output it looks like. You probably also get much better support buying from Genesis rather than an OEM like Scan-Speak. But if you don't need those things, the price difference is pretty big between the two and there's absolutely nothing wrong with eq'ing the low end response to your liking.


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

bbfoto said:


> Now on to the original debate...IME, the Scan 18W has a slightly "meatier" or slightly "thicker" mid-bass response and an overall "smoother," non-fatiguing sound than the W18NX. Not that the W18NX is fatiguing or harsh, or that the 18W is dull. They both offer excellent detail. I am also using the Hiquphon OW1's with the W18NX and REALLY like this combination! I think that the OW1's would also mate extremely well with the W18, too! I just haven't tried this combination myself unfortunately. I planned to, but ran out of time and just had to get the car back together again and never got a chance to try it since I am quite pleased with the NX/OW1 combo.


Thanks for the response, it really helped. Where do you have your woofers and tweeters crossed at and how steep of a slope.

I went ahead and purchased a pair of W18NX from LexNbimmer and can't wait to get my hands on em.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

The crossover point depends on your tweeter. The woofer can run up to 4kHz without much of a problem, so it is capable enough to pair up with basically any tweeter.


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## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

npdang said:


> The t/s specs on the Genesis driver look much better for car door use, as well as the taller backplate for increased bass output it looks like. You probably also get much better support buying from Genesis rather than an OEM like Scan-Speak. But if you don't need those things, the price difference is pretty big between the two and there's absolutely nothing wrong with eq'ing the low end response to your liking.


Agreed. 

My personal take on low qts woofers from Scan Speak, SEAS, Morel, etc. is the emphasis on an enclosure to get bass and not so much the other items. 

While I agree that there's value in drivers like the Genesis that can be dropped in a door and work wonderfully off the bat....I prefer in the high end of things to purchase drivers with greater potential. 

IMHO, it seems like the 18W/4531 and 8531 have the greatest *potential* for a 7" woofer in raw driver form.....


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

I love this thread. The two DIY 7" heavyweights and their discussions are great. First and foremost, there is nothing Im reading that would make me pay twice the money for a pair of Genesis over Scans. With the same money I would and may buy both the Scan Revs and W18NX and swap them out depending on whether I wanted more detailed or fuller sound. 

Has anybody ever compared the 4ohm Revs vs. 8ohm Revs?? Any differences??

Also still looking for more personal opinions of the two drivers (as there wasnt already enough)


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## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

andthelam said:


> I love this thread. The two DIY 7" heavyweights and their discussions are great. First and foremost, there is nothing Im reading that would make me pay twice the money for a pair of Genesis over Scans. With the same money I would and may buy both the Scan Revs and W18NX and swap them out depending on whether I wanted more detailed or fuller sound.
> 
> Has anybody ever compared the 4ohm Revs vs. 8ohm Revs?? Any differences??
> 
> Also still looking for more personal opinions of the two drivers (as there wasnt already enough)


Yeah, this thread is very cool.  

Only recently have I begun to really notice Genesis as a speaker brand. I'm sure they are nice, but any time A designs/builds for B, you gotta respect A more (think Morel designed DLS speakers, Dynaudio & Focal drivers in Wilson speakers)...and the Genesis aren't even the first speakers based on the Revelators either (e.g. Alpine F#1). 

And to top it off, even *if* Genesis was superior, at twice the price there's money that could be spent on install/amp that would overcome it. At this level especially, the difference would be too small to be worth it as opposed to say a $600 pair of speakers and $300 pair.

As far as differences between the 4 ohm and 8 ohm Revelators, there is a difference, at least on paper. The 8 ohm (and 16 ohm for that matter) have lower Fs values, and this translates to lower F3 points for the higher resistance models. The differences are definitely noticeable to warrant consideration in choosing drivers....

So if you like deeper bass, the 8 and 16 ohm variants should be better...and they'll require larger enclosures as well, so perhaps they would be better for door installs than the 4 ohm. You also have to consider the resistance dropping when wiring more than one of these drivers in parallel...


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## ahboy (Jul 20, 2005)

IMHO, both r great drivers, depends on self preference, i find out that seas's good for instruments n scans good for vocals.


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

W18NXs take its first lead at 20 votes to 19.


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## technobug (Mar 15, 2005)

I was running the Scan 18W till about 2mo ago. IB in the doors. I have used them both in a 3way set up ( 18w/12m/DIYMA Alum Proto ) and 2way (18w/D2904-6000 ). I really like the Scans. The 18w has a very full sound. Very different to other mids I think. For sure it is a "Scan Speak" trait or flavor. Very rich, very smooth. Definately not what you would tab as "clinical" sounding. I've heard people say that they don't think the Revs are very detailed in comparison to other woofers such as the Seas Lotus. I completely disagree. I think the Scan is very detailed, just has a different feel to it. A different texture. The difference in tonal character between the two is really like 2 different listening enviroments. The Scan I think has a very intimate sound. You can easily listen to a live recording of Diana Krall or something and imagine that you are in some smokey basement bar somewhere in downtown Toronto. On the other hand you listen to the same recording on the Seas and instantly you are transported to a mezzanine level seat in an ampitheatre somewhere. Just more airy. Is one more natural than the other? I don't think so. Although the Scan tends to have a slightly exagerated bass. But that's another thing to like about the Scns. They just play sooo loooooooow. Kick drums are bit more robust. Where as with the Seas it more snappy. They really are almost polar opposites as far as tonal signature goes. One is thick and velvety, and the other is transparent and airy. Both have characteristics to love.

But like I said I no longer use the Scans. I am switching to the W18NX. I heard these in Npdang's car and was just really imnpressed. Part of the reason for my change is, I wanna try a new 2way setup. The midrange clarity and depth of the NX is hard to beat I think, and to top it off, it really is a midbass monster. I'm not too worried about having to play them low as I have a PU and the sub is in the passenger cabin with me. Blending will be fairly simple I think.

Anyways, either choice is a terrific one. There is no wrong one.


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## bardx86 (Sep 13, 2007)

I still can't make up my mind. Some one helpe me out, lol.

bard


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

bardx86 said:


> I still can't make up my mind. Some one helpe me out, lol.
> 
> bard


Technobug basically took the words right out of my mouth!  

I've never run the Nextels, but totally know what he's talking about with respect to the Seas vs Scan sound. 

Want kick ass, snappy bass? Nextel.

Want fluid, robust and looooooow end extension? Scan.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Interesting. You guys should keep in mind that the Scan has been out a fairly long time. People will be less likely to vote the Nextel due to a lack of experience with it. Still the poll is in it's favor. Statistically that is a major advantage.

Subjectively, I prefer the Seas drivers. Transparent is how drivers should sound. The epitome of a perfect sound system is when the signature of the driver plays no role, it's as if it's live. Detailed, analytical drivers simply reproduce music as it is. I associate the smoothness and laid back sound to speakers that muffle detail for the purpose of having an easy listening session. So when people say this driver sounds velvety I tend to think of the Seas driver with that type of cloth flung over it  I will say that the Scan would be my first paper driver choice though, but I haven't heard the Nextel so I can't show my inclination in this poll.

ohh...yeah Mags FTW!


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## bardx86 (Sep 13, 2007)

I've noticed that some members have moved from the seas(w18nw) to the scans. Would some of you comment on why and do you feel that was a better move for you?

bard


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

bardx86 said:


> I've noticed that some members have moved from the seas(w18nw) to the scans. Would some of you comment on why and do you feel that was a better move for you?
> 
> bard


Ive had both W18NX 1st then the 7" Revs. both 8 ohmers. First what is definately the major positives for the Nextels is that tight snappy midbass, can sound like someones actually hitting your dash w/ drumsticks kinda sound. It is plenty detailed, very transparent and provides very good instrument separation.

But some of the goods are also some of the bads. It may sound dry to some and a tad cynical with live or sub great recordings. These issues seem more apparent when crossing over too high. The peak in Freq response and distortion at its upper end may need to be controlled, some have spoke of maybe a notch filter?? They are def. not as easy to control as the Rev's esp. at high volume. 

For my app, the reasons I like the W18NX better:
1. AFAIK, the epitome of tight snappy midbass from a 7" driver.
2. more detailed, more transparent and better separation of instruments.

Why I prefer to use the Rev's:
1. Less distortion at high volume.
2. Is much more forgiving of SBD bootlegs from the 70's, they have a smoother richer sound, but still plenty detailed
3. Can play higher and lower more effortlessly, gives you more room w/ x-over settings. 

If I had 2 cars, Id prob get a pair of each.

But personally I would prob still rather have Rev's w/ that Nextel snappy midbass than Nextels w/ Rev. distortion numbers. 

That's my 2.5c.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Best 2.5 cents I've ever seen  Right on every count!


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## bardx86 (Sep 13, 2007)

andthelam said:


> But personally I would prob still rather have Rev's w/ that Nextel snappy midbass than Nextels w/ Rev. distortion numbers.
> 
> That's my 2.5c.


So umm could you explain this. I can't tell which you like better from this statement, lol
bard


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## X Ray (Oct 29, 2007)

How does the SEAS W18NX compare to the "car specific" SEAS Lotus RW165/1???? Anyone every compare the two?


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