# 2012 Ram quad cab sport, First sq build, budget friendly.



## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok guys and gals, first build in 10+ years and first purely sound quality build. So constructive advice or pointers are welcomed
Just getting started working on my truck. Already have some pieces-
2 helix b4 amps
Helix dsp
DA 1" soft dome nd25fa
Tang bang 3" mid 881sjf
Silverflute 8" midbass
Yet to come sub setup thinking mkiv 
Objective sound quality
My rules has to look stock, as much as possible and everything has to function still aka windows and steering wheel controls stock head unit.
So far i have double layer deadened the front doors and made mounts for the silverflute. That was fun. The silverflutes are 3.4" deep and rubbing on the window regulator, not ideal at all. I cant make the baffle any thicker either rubbing on door panel also. Wanted to make a glass enclosure in the door just cant see how i can make it work with the window rolled all the way down it drop to the bottom edge of the magnet. Think i will try to seal the doors up. Very unhappy with the fact the inner door skin is plastic major fail. Its to flimsy and is essantialy the door window regulator, so i cant modify it to much.
Looking at alternative maybe different speaker that can use Ib or should i just call it what it is free air.
Any suggestions? 100hzs to 300hzs ish under $300.00 for pair max.
Got the tweeters mounted in the sail panels very simple holesaw cut and some perfectly sized panhead bolts. Everything on the tweeters is flush. I will get some picks up this weekend. Tweeters are off axis will have to see how they sound once i get more done. Should be fine plan on crossing them above 4k anyway and dont like super bright highs.
Planning to make some small enclosures for the mids shouldnt be to bad i have just enough space in the dash. I did check to see how they will mount looks like im in for a little more work than i had planned. The magnets are huge on these little mids - 4" flange will require minor dash mods to fit, but cant drop in.
A i can pull winshield 
,B i can pull dash out, 
think i will pull dash i can get the enclosure in the dash designed and in much easier with the dash out. Call me crazy since it will be firing into the windshield and i have no idea how much of a difference it will make, but why not? I have always found it easier to spend the extra time to get to something is usually worth it. Ok i think thats about it so far. I will try to keep the updates coming about once a week.


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## troutspinner (Nov 8, 2013)

Can't wait to see your progress. There are quite a few of us Ram guys into the audio and we also post our build threads over at ramforum.com.

Bradknob has placed some rather large speakers in his doors. I would check out his thread, either here or there, you might be able to get some ideas but all of us ram guys know your pain.

I am contemplating enclosures in the dash myself as I just can't bring myself to creating mounts on the A pillars and blocking even more view. Our pillars are large and cause blind spots as they are. Have you looked underneath the dash, the driver's side is a little more accessible friendly. I've been thinking that making a small enclosure with the speaker and then coming up from underneath might be do-able? Until I get further into it I will not know for sure. I really want those 4" Scan Illuminators but there is no way they are going to fit in a standard approach.

Subscribed!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...coustics-sb23nacs45-8-8-aluminum-cone-woofer/

These are 80mm where the Silver Flutes 86mm. Wonder if that's enough room to clear the window. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Yes i have looked underneath the dash. The drivers side is free from obstructions. Found that out when i pulled the factory speaker out. It slipped out of my hand and fell in to the dash all the way down to the pedals lmao. The issue is on the passenger side. The evaporator case and ip brace are limiting factors to deal with. On the rear , firewall side, have just 3" on the front have 5" to the evap case. This is still enough space that i can make the proper sized enclosure i only need 4x4x4. I will angle the bottom of the passenger enclosure to get the volume and may make them wider to compensate for the thickness of the material used to make them. My first thought is to just use fiberglass and a little polyfill. I havent measured to see how wide i can go yet might be able to use mdf. If the mdf will be better for sq then i will see if that can work. Any opinion on that?
The sb acoustics would probably be fine. I was thinking of find a speaker with a higher qts since i wont be able to make an enclosure inside the door, well maybe. If i do an enclosure it will have some very complex shapes. I was looking at Jl zf800 and morel Mw266 there are a couple more biggest issue is most that have the proper spec for ib are to deep. The jl's might be over kill dont really needs a speaker that can do sub duties and the morel is an 8.75" flange, but at 2.7" deep i think i could compensate for it. Still looking for any better alternatives.
Bradknob build is impressive and very helpful. I would recommend anyone thats working on a build to read his build log. Far beyond my skills.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Haven't been able to get anything done this week been feeling under the weather. However I did order one bm mkiv sub and the matching mono amp to my other amps. 
Ordered more damp used about 35sqft just on the front doors. Got one gallon of sludge as well to use on the door cards to make them "stiff". Then i can seal the front doors up. Think i figured out how to make the 8"s fit in the doors. Will have to cut the stock 6x9 completely out and build it back up so everything will line up just perfect for it all to clear. I have another interesting idea for the front doors. Think i will keep it to myself for now , try it and if it works great, if not then well more experience and can let yall know what i learned. So stay tuned for upcoming info.
I did pull the rear seat out to get an idea of were to mount the amplifiers. Looks like there is enough room for one behind each seat. Will require making a 3/4" mount to clear the cab vents. Think i will get some liquid nail to hold it. The third amp will go under the passenger rear seat.
When i build the sub box i plan to build it all the way across the back so that it fills the gap under the seat. Then cut out the space on the top plate to put the amp in flush. Will be somewhat like the single sub with amp setup that bradknob did. Looks like the best option to me. I will mount the dsp in the center console, lots of room there and easy access to it for tuning.
Now if i can just figure out how to post some picks lol. Figure it out when i get on the laptop at home.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/levov1f9yxo983p/2015-02-22 09.24.11.jpg?dl=0


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

http:// https://www.dropbox.com/s/kx58qlbabocpkjt/2015-02-22%2012.02.09.jpg?dl=0Ok time for an update. Been along week. Anyway i was able to get the doors done, well 90%. 
Got the 8's figured out. In order th get them to fit and installed properly required cutting the door card. No more factory mount. Only part left is the bottom.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/n705bampb30bikc/AABW2GMXeyTxIKfD8gTouAQga 
Link to photos. 
Made a mount out of mdf. Base piece is larger to be able to bolt to door. Second piece is for depth about 7/8" wide. The top thin piece is shim to fill gap and is only the width of the flange.
So what i had to do was make a mount to hold the speaker and be able to position it so it would clear the door panel. The shim was needed because the speaker magnet is up against the metal window regulator. The metal come down at an angle causing the speaker to angle up about 15 degrees. So the shim is very thin on the top maybe 1/8" and tappers to about 3/8" thick on bottom. Made two of each and of coarse just flipped it all over for the other side. Screwed it all together and cleaned up the alignment. Had to take some of the base to clear door panel. Once the door panel went on cleanly with everything lining up then drilled holes for bolts to hold it to the door. Used some insulation tape(automotive a/c ducting tape) to wrap it up to seal it up. That stuff is thick and sticky it filled any gaps and then some. Actually took up a little to much space made the door panels hard to line up. Not worried about it though since i know the door panels fit before i put the insulation on. 
Heard some rattling in the door card. Went ahead and pulled the door cards off and deadened them. Put deadener on the window regulator metal guides to stop them from buzzing. Then i put deadener on the door lock and lock rods were i could. After that i decided to put some of the insulation tape on the door handle cable. No more rattles and fairly well sealed up now. Can hear ( should i say not hear)the difference from deadening the door card, very quite think i can hear my own heartbeat lol.
So through all of the different steps i have taken to put these speakers in i kept stopping and starting, which allowed me to hook the speakers up through out. Doing this allowed me to be able to hear the difference each step made. At first i hade cut just a cheap quick mount cut out the area on the door just enough to clear the basket and bolt the speaker up. Big gaps no deadener. Sound was lacking any bass at all. 
Then i deadened the doors on the inside. Pulled the window and door card. Lined the door with two layers of damplifier. Should have got damp pro would have only needed one layer, but its thick and hard to work into tight spaces. Warning wear gloves nasty sharp edges and hard to cut. Better have really good scissors. I used razors at first but that was very difficult. After deadening the doors i have bass again, but only limited have to turn bass up to max. 
Next i built one mdf mount and installed just the drivers side. This made a big difference so much that it pulled the balance hard left. Had to move balance 3 to right to find a left to right balance. Also now i have strong bass had to drop eq down to flat to be were it was before. 
Finished both doors speaker mounts, deadened, sealed up as much as possible. Still running off stock head unit all this time mind you, the bass from these is now so good i almost wonder if i even need an amp, hahaha. The bass drums sound great and bass guitar has authority. Drums have a tight pop i really like how they sound. Exactly how i had hoped.
Now i can say i know exactly what these guys say. That the install is more important than anything else. With a solid install you can get the most out of your speakers, even $30 speakers can sound great, which these are. No need for $1000 dollar speakers here. I will say these sound very good clean in the midbass range even down to 60hz ( start falling off around 80hz naturally),
I dont care for how they sound in the higher octives. On some songs they get beamy and colored tonely. Guess thats why i choose them as midbass for three way not two way. Although with a good eq im sure they could clean up. They dont sound bad even with them running full range right now. Better than stock, opened the stage up, add detail, and if they were crossed properly and time delay set im sure they would sound better, so im not knocking them at all since they arn't set up properly right now. Just commenting on how they are interacting in my vehicle right now. I found if i drop the midrange below flat i can clean up most of the crosstalk im getting between the 8s and stock tweeters so setup properly will clean it up. Sorry no pic off final assembly was just ready to get it put back together. I will get pics later. Still have to replace stock wires and wire up tweeters.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

So i originally stated budget friendly and while the front stage speakers are very budget friendly, the sub was a little bit price but well worth i hope. The amp were all purchased used. Think i paid, for all three , what one would be new. The dsp is new but was half price. So all together not that bad. At this point I now have aa much invested in materials for the install as anything else. Less than 2000 total, which to me is pretty cheap for this level of sq.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice job so far! The midbass mount looks extremely solid. Hopefully there's some room to play around with other midbass when you get the upgrade bug. =P J/K! 

Did you get the midranges mounted yet? Post a list of what's been done already.

Dropbox and the pic tool here don't seem to play very well.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Still have a lot to do. The 8s in the doors and mounting the tweeters is all i have gotten done so far. Everything that has been ordered has come in now. So now it is just a matter of finding the time to do everything. Most everything is planned out in my head. Actually doing it that is totally different. It seems there is always something i dodnt plan for or has to be change to make it work.  The doors were a challenge making those big @$# speakers fit. Those i can tell you are the deepest speakers that will fit with out cutting the door panels. So if i do every get the upgrade bug, which i will atleast anything else i stick in the doors will be easier to make fit than these were. I stretched her outepper: 
Sorry bout photos the quick photo button keeps asking for url i still need to get on a laptop maybe then eventually :shrug::beatnik:


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

file wont load cause its to big and res. is to high


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## popwarhomie (Feb 23, 2015)

In for this.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok let me see if i can get this to work now. I think i can


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok cool that worked had to open up Photobucket account. So here we go.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

It was a little slow at work today so i had the opportunity to play with the truck. I wanted to start figuring out how to get the mids in the dash. 
Pulled the stock tweeters out and pulled the a pillar trim out of the way. Couldn't believe it the mids slipped right in. Almost like they were made for it. Now if i want to make a baffle or an enclosure for them that will be a challenge. They took a slight amount of pressure to get past the windshield so adding any other piece will make it all but impossible to get them in without pulling the dash. 
So since they fit time to try them out. Soldered some 16 gauge speaker wire up to them. Spliced into the stock wire and soldered the splice. 
:thumbsup: wow Talk about a night and day. These little speakers sound great. The detail and tone are great. These things are sensitive too. They are over powering the 8s. Now i need to get the processor and amps hooked up. The time alignment is way off, but loving the details hearing instruments i didnt know were there before. Know im wondering if its worth putting a baffle or shielding the back. If they sound good now, how will they sound with a better install? 
So im going to play around with a little fiberglass and make a small enclosure to seal the back. Still haven't figured out how i want to make the baffle. Have about a 1/4" to play with. The front edge is a tight fit in the dash. The a/c duct is right in the way. Hum time to try a few things. Atleast for now i can play them and break them in. 











































These little guys play up quite high probably dont even need to hook up the tweeters. But, but i want the control cause right now the symbals are actually to loud and i cant balance it out. Cant wait to get more done on it this weekend. Getting fun and exciting now. Official got the bug now.:beerchug:


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## troutspinner (Nov 8, 2013)

Very nice. That helps me pick a speaker out using the sizes of that Tang Band as a starting point. Any issues or fudging at all other than the front edge being tight? Any depth issues? I assume any deeper and you couldn't "slip" them in?

Keep up the good work!


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Thanks, while these speakers sound 10x better than stock i wouldnt say they are the best out there. I choose to try these based on reviews and a couple of you tube videos that allowed me to compare them. I do still hear some sort of distortion. Possible that it is a reflection issue from the windshield, an issue of off axis performance, no baffle or rear shielding, maybe a combination of things. Hopefully once the processor is in i can tune it to get it corrected. Going to order a mic this week so i can use REW to see how it looks. Vocals sometimes sound a touch off. I consider myself a noob i have not heard 100s of speakers. I can only compare to what i have heard in the past . However that memory may be inaccurate. 
My previous speakers. Mb quart qsd216 i thought these were great. Infinity didnt like at all. Focal k2 good but just not quite right for me. Several other cheap speakers not worth mentioning. I have heard multiple others and like so many times it has been said, well, to each there own. 
It seems over the years when me and friends would build systems or during a jam session at the "warehouse ", where the bands all practiced, i would always be tweeking the sound.I do know i do have a specific taste when it come to what i want to hear and typically i do get good comments on the final outcome. How a true golden ear might perceive that "sound" might be a completely different story.
As far as getting these in. The size of the magnet is the limiting factor. Barely cleared dash with slight downward pressure to clear the windshield as i pushed it into to the recessed area. The front edge of the magnet is very close to the ac vent. No cutting or modification were needed thanks to the open space to the inside edge allowing the flange to slip under the cut out open area there. Surprisingly the stock bolt holes are actually wider than the flange due to the stock tweeters oval shaped flange. There is some room to move the speaker around with it in place. If you can see in the picture the front edge to the left there is a locating pin i can move the speaker to sit so the mounting hole in the speaker flange sits on it. I put it forward because i havent screwed it down yet and with it forward it is a snug fit, enough to keep it from moving around without any screws. For some odd reason though the right speaker has a little more space as it sits in the same spot. It is not a snug fit and is moving around a little bit. A speaker with a neo magnet would fit better even at the same depth. The difference of a smaller diameter magnet would be the benefit. 
The fun part will be getting to the underside of the passenger side speaker. If you have a reason to do so. Havent found a way to get a clear view through the dash to it even with pulling the two storage compartments. The I/P carrier main brace runs directly in the path forward of the speaker making it impossible to get a hand in there.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Hope you guys can forgive the noob description of what i hear. I am trying not to use to many of the ' bad words'. Once i run the rta i will post results. I am reading as much as i can trying to learn and absorb it all. We all have to start some were right. This is a fun learning experience and i hope that i can be helpful to someone else along the way by being as detailed as i can about what i am doing. Even if i am helping them by showing them what not to do. Dooope If you think im doing something stupid let me know.


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## aqlover (Jun 7, 2011)

Nice! I will start my build one day


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

So i found one issue i was having. My 3.5mm cable is going out. Started losing right channel all together. If it had not been for the loss of the right channel i would have thought it was just an issue with the quality of the mids, cause it must habe been an issue that was slready there. I couldnt notice it with the factor speakers, but with the more sensitive mids i was picking up on it. Audio tool app was showing bad spikes throughout midrange. Just using phone mic for right now till i got some real mics in. Got a new good cable, a better quality cable,and the app shows the bad spikes from 500 to 4000 have calmed down a lot. It was very fatiguing to listen to. Explains why vocals sounded off. Audible difference with new cable as confirmed with audio tool. 
Going to try to do some work on the truck today. See what i can get accomplished. Atleast get a mount for amps made and rear wall deadened.


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## troutspinner (Nov 8, 2013)

No forgiveness required! That's what I like about audio, there are thousands of different products and just as many different approaches for installation. You're doing a nice job and learning as you go, keep up the good work.

I assume you will be mounting your amps on the rear wall? If so, lots of pics please! I say this selfishly of course as I will be doing the same soon. 

I am going from one amp to two as well as one sub to two and that is going to force me to mount my amps and dsp to the rear wall as the second sub will be taking up the space where that equipment currently resides.

I have everything I need sitting in my workroom....or should I say the room where I have a workbench and everything that my wife thinks we need is stored......  I could throw away 3/4 of the stuff and I know she would not notice until that one day, it could be 20 years from now but it would happen.

The only thing I do not have is nice weather and I do not like doing audio work in the cold. Plastic fights you, things that shouldn't cut you do and soldering becomes difficult.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Well the weather is slowing things down. Was not able to do the mounts for the amps today. Its to cold for the liquid nail to cure properly. Glad its not as bad here as up north. Our bad weather is nothing compared to that. 
I was able to lay the wiring out for the amps and processor. Stripped the interior out and throw some sound deadener down.
Oh and yes the front stage amps are going on the back wall. I will try to take lots of picks,lol. 
I will go ahead and put a few more up of what i started today.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

For those of you who hate to read,lol. Well thats it for today. Hopefully i can get the amps and processor going tomorrow.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Innnn! 

Making some great progress so far. Tonality and detail is nice now, but wait til you get the helix in the mix. Bring everything to a whole new level. 

Your brain must work like mine lol "I have a great idea.... But I won't tell you anything about until I make sure I can pull it off first" haha

Keep it up. Looking forward to more updates.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Now to show how much more difficult this has been. I have about an hour drive to the shop, were i work, and i am doing the work out there on the weekends . Dont have a place to do it all were i live. So here is the kicker. I have to drive the truck home every night. If you haven't caught what im saying , i pull it apart work on it and put it all back together. So she has been apart and all back together multiple times. Making a lot more work for myself. Atleast im getting good at it. Now i know were everything is and how it's all put together. Yup crazy mechanics we do what no one else would ever do. With the wife and kids i have to do this. Just in case kinda thing.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Thanks Bradknob, i guess I should update that bit. Still think i can pull it off, but i will have to change the midbass out. Think here in a few weeks i will pull the trigger on a Pair of s.i. tm65. Havent decided yet may do it just to try them out. They are shallow enough that i can pull off an aperiodic chamber type of enclosure in the doors. I really want to play around with this design to see how it would work just to do it. Yeah so it definitely wasnt happening with the 8's. Just the way the doors are designed makes everything a work-around situation and i want to try something different to optimize what can be done. So there you go, cats out of the bag. I have no experience with this design and i am curious to see how it works.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

The A.D.D. is kicking in lol. It is very difficult for me to stay on a single path, when there are so many options. Then there is the thought ' I can do it different'. I think i have an addiction problem. This site is a bad influence lol. I can already see the upgrades coming, need this or that, i will want to change amps and upgrade speakers and and, :idea2:


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok guys it has been a long day. Hooked the front stage amps, and the helix dsp up. Ran all new wires soldered all the speakers in, and cused at the dsp a few times. Lol
Was finally able to get it all going. The dsp is a pain with those tiny terminal. I found some male terminals that fit good, crimped them for the high inputs to the dsp from the factory radio. Then the rca cables that i picked up, while they are great the connector are huge, were very difficult to install. Had to wrap them with some cloth tape so they would not short together, they are all touching, because the dsp outputs are so close together. These cable are about 4 gauge, diameter of insulation. Installed the dsp in the center console. Still need to clean up the areas were i had to cut to get the wires and cables through. Always something else to do, right? 
Did not mount the amps just put them under the back for now. Separated the channels left speakers on left amp, right speakers on tight amp, made getting the balance correct easier. Was disappointed when i found that these amps do not have independent channel gains. Gains for channels 1-2, 3-4 only. Worked out ok though. Still want to play with gains a little more. I was able to get them close. Started with the right side set the midbass then balanced the mid to the bass were i wanted it at. Then set the left side as best as i could, reaching back sitting in the drivers seat, to balance it out to center. Think i need a tick more on the right mid. They are quite sensitive to adjust. Just the slightest movement make a big shift. 
Fought with the laptop for awhile could get it to see the dsp. Ended up loading the last version2 software to get it to work. I had an older version at first and for some reason it just wasnt working and version 3 doesnt support the helix dsp, just dsp pro for now. That is supposed to change according to the site. Went in set the crossovers. Probly will play with them some more. Good enough for now midbass 80-375, mid 375-4000, tweeter 4k up. Referenced Bradknobs build to get a starting point for time delay. Punched those delays in real quick, Thank you Bradknob. Gave me a decent center stage. Will have to fine tune it but pretty close just a little off to the left on the mid only maybe 3-5 inchs for my setup. Left the eq flat cause i ran out of time. Sounds good even my wife said " It sounds soooo much better" yup got the 4 oooo's. Hahaha Thos is a good start, definitely, no question about it, this is what i have missed for a long time. Sta r ting to remind me of my last good setup with the mb quarts. Still not there yet but the dsp and amps made the difference i was needing so badly. Now i can rock out and dont have to crank it to max just to hear it. 
Got some pics from today. 
























































The last one is the pick of the midbass all sealed up like i promised.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Good work dude. Helix input plugs are the WORST. 

As for the amp gains, I would set them
All the same and use the helix gains to adjust each channel independently.

I'm not sure how low those tang bands can play, but I found that when I took some of the vocal range out of the door speakers, it was much easier to get a real nice image. Was about 185hz (if I remember correctly) in my case.

I don't think I still have any of my old helix DSP settings saved, but I'll check and could send them to you as a starting point if you would like.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Still playing around with crossovers moved the mids to 320 @ 12 sounds better and lowpass moved to [email protected] 18. Also on the midbass bumped highpass to 90 @24 . That made the bass tighten up a bit. Still playing with it trying to see how far i can go with it. Going to try starting over on image get the gain even and work on image again. Seemed like it wasnt moving staying on left a bit. Guess its the reflection from the glass playing tricks and getting the right music to use. I can get one song i think has good center, for instance Man in the box, then next song is off and if the volume is to low it moves. Just need to take more time fine tuning it. Lots of options and fine tuning available. Really like the processor and the software is easy to use. Tuning always takes forever to get it just right.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I suppose setting the gains on the amps the same and using the dsp to balance it out should fix the image moving at different volumes? Probably what is through the image off as well? I will take your advise and do it that way. Let you know what the results are, thank you. Still learning on the fly about this dsp. Actually just started playing around with it a bit more yesterday. Taking my time so as to not get overwelmed by it. Lol :tongue2: Should i use test tones to help fine tuning the image? I have always used the ta in the head unit to set it up and i think i always set the gains all the same in the past and just set the ta by ear. I have never had to deal with dash speakers or three way before, there is a learning curve here. Really need to order mics so i can tune seems complicated but much more precise and probably actually quicker.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Played with the dsp for a while today. Learned what the x-over limits are for sound quality and imaging. Crossed the mids as low as i can safely. Not as low as i want just enough to get image right and still have power handling before x-max set at 250hz highpass . Yet still cant handle all the available power that would require a high x-over around 500hz and that would pull the stage down. 
Used some different tracks to fine tune center to settings one center of driver and one center of vehicle. Was able to get a nice tight focused center. Much better than before. No weird movement in stage anymore.
Ordered microphone this week hopefully will be hear in the next few days. Meanwhile I will start working on the enclosure and baffle for the mids this coming week. Guess i am procrastinating about it. Going to be a lot of work and wont be able to get it done in a day for sure.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Finally got to work on the truck today. Made baffles for the mids. Also got to start playing with the usb mic a little bit. 
I would like to recommend anyone who hasnt read Erin H. Thread: sticky- Essential of sound imho, to read through it, multiple times if needed. There are many good pointers and links throughout. One of the links
http://tracerite.com/calc.html This site helped me get the time delay set very well. Ended up with delays of LT 1.83ms RT .15ms LM 1.24ms RM 0 LMB 4.04ms RMB 2ms. Quick and easy calculator. 
A couple of pics from today















Hard to see the baffle in the pic with it installed. I put strip calk around all over and around it to dampen it and seal it up. Not a very noticeable difference in sound.
With the new time alignment settings i was able to change crossovers. Raised the m.b. lowpass to 475 and mid highpass to 525 mid lowpass 2875 and tweeter highpass to 3000. May change again after running rta but raising the filter on the mid allows me to crank it up without worrying about frying them. The phasing and t.a. are much better. No more issues with stage height. Dont think the center is as focused as i had it before but phase is a lot better. 
Lots of work still to do. Glad to be making some more progress again. Will try to get a little more done tomorrow.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Well got some work done today that needed to be finished before i can start on the sub enclosure. 
Made mounts for the two front stage amps and capacitor. Tight fit behind the seat made i a challenge to reinstall the seats.

























































As you can see the seat will not lift up all the way. I used some liquid nail to adhere the strips of wood to the back wall. Had to cut the wood to exact width and depth to clear the cab vent and to match the sjape of the wall. It also required some recess cuts to match. Let it setup for 24hrs before trying to mount amps to it. Still have some work to clean up the wiring. I want to mount the fuse and splitter to the mount with the capacitor. That will have to wait for another day.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Damn..... Sucks about the seat. You gonna leave it be or try to fix it? Maybe mounting the capacitor sideways and lowering it toward the floor some.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I will have to turn it on its side and drop it down. Need to be able to raise seat up only for access to be able to bolt it down once the sub box is in place. I'm not sure if there is access to get to the rear bolts otherwise. Other than that it really wouldn't matter to me. 
I have another issue to deal with right now. Im getting an alternator whine that wasnt there before. Also getting a hiss type noise even with engine off. The alt whine isnt terrible but its a nuecance. The hiss type noise that's bad like background noise but both noises are there with volume at 0. Got me thinking of a. Get a line driver or b. Replace the stock head unit. I do have an old pioneer premier "copper chassis" in the closet that i could put in for now. Could see if that fixes the issue. Its a good unit just the faceplate lcd display is discolored from the summer heat. Teally got sucks didn't think i would have this issue with the way this dsp input is designed with it decoupled internally.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Argggh, Fkn noise! I dealt with it, such a pita. My problem wound up being the remote out on the helix. It wasn't putting out enough voltage and my leviathan didn't like it. When I moved my amps to a different 12v source, it went away. Had to return the helix and that's how I wound up with the PRO.

Id double and triple check wiring before I started adding more components in the mix


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I will check the remote out first. I was think about using the pioneer to be able to use the rca to the helix to see if part of the issue was the high inputs. Just a quick check that wouldn't cost me anything since i already have it. I already checked the connections to the dsp no luck there. Was hoping to find a lose wire or something stupid that i messed up. I have a small wire on the remote out maybe part of the problem. Didnt even think about the remote out being capable of causing a noise issue. Will check output voltage tomorrow.
Thanks for the tip. Hopefully i wont end up in the same situation you were in all though you did end up with the Pro, so you ended up getting taken care of very well. Thats one of the reasons i went with Helix. That kind of customer service is hard to find these days.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Update, checked the dsp remote out getting battery voltage so good there. Will have to work my way through everything and figure it out.
Been playing with the tune here and there using sweeps and resetting crossovers and time delays. Reset levels and started tuning trying to get a smoother curve. Just trying to clean things up. Hot ride of some peaks and valleys. Tried to fill a hole as best as i could at 200hz. Cant really do a lot there without messing something else up. Have a peak at 550 tamed it somewhat. To me sounds better. Center is more focused, stage finally started to widen beyond the a pillars. 
Sounds cleaner i will have to post a few sweeps and waterfall graphs when i can. I was looking at waterfall in the midrange up and looks pretty good. Im thinking i may want to leave the mids alone. I had thought about making an enclosure under them, but now looking at how clean they look i am worried i would make thing worse if i did. Only other thing i never mentioned was i shoved some polyfill in the dash under the speakers to help absorb backwaves. 
I'm finally farely happy with the front stage. I was listening to a couple of songs, Dirt Pool/ Stevie ray Vaughan and Patience/ Gun&Roses, holy crap freakn got goosebumps what the heck, oh yeah awesome. :rockon:


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## evangojason (Feb 12, 2010)

Great build, Just picked up a 2014 Ram 1500 last weekend and will be starting my build soon. Thanks for sharing.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

So after the quick first day of playing with the rta and tuning without using the rew predict feature this is what i came up with. 







total system curve
No sub







plot of system in vehicle response all doors and windows closed so can see cabin gains and everything. As you probably can see the focus of what i was tuning was the mids up to about 5k. Not sure what to do about the midbass, will use the predicted adjustments see how much changing the q will help. In this particular rendering looks bad if im looking at it correctly.







left predicted by rew havent used yet.







right predicted by rew havent used yet
Played with the system somemore using the predict feature so i could get used to it and hear how the response changed. To me having set to correct within 1db takes all the character out of the system. Could say to clinical for me. Also found definitely can over do it trying to correct and recheck more than once. I will go back and play around with it at 3db correction and set it up from there by ear. Also noticed when correcting left and right individually have to be careful not to over due it or it will pull the stage off center. Have to make sure to turn off t.a. or it will pull stage off or atleast it did it to me. Really fun getting to play with it and be able to see what each change does. Feel like a kid with a new toy, lol.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Alright now tuning setion day 2 is complete. Used rew to help correct everything. Ran sweeps for each driver and found that crossovers need to change. 
Midbass 77 to 380
Mids 380 to 6000
Tweeters 6000+
Stage depth is much better now could fall right in, lol.
Tone is so much cleaner, rew is the chit man.
Im going to post up a couple picks see what you guys think. Would love some input not sure if i need to change anything or not.





























Hope you can see everything ok. All i had time to do today. The distortion plot was before the last set of adjustments were made. Thought they were important to show though.
So here is how i got to this point today. I turned off time alignment and crossovers. Ran sweeps on each driver. Reset the crossovers. Ran sweeps on left and right separately. Made adjustment to left and right recommend in rew eq. I set rew at 1 db correction,roll off starting at 300 with a 4db per octave slope. Smoothing is at 1/3.
Then i reset time alignment based on the new crossover points. Then ran sweep of left right and both combined to compare. Ran rew eq again for total response adjustment and made adjustments were i needed. I felt that the slope wasnt enough so changed it to 5db per octive. This helped clean up the midrange the top octaves roll off already naturally so just balanced everything out. Some adjustments were in the same bands that had already been adjusted. These had to listen and find the right balance between the first and second recommendation. These fine tune adjustments made a worlds difference. You would never believe these are 30 and 40 dollar drivers now. Very happy with the results from today. Every song sounds clean now. 
Old lady is mad at me now cause i was sitting in the truck listening for to long, lol.
Now i have to get the sub in and spend months deadening every little buzz and rattle. Also want to see where it will get me with the blending between it and the midbass.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

evangojason said:


> Great build, Just picked up a 2014 Ram 1500 last weekend and will be starting my build soon. Thanks for sharing.


Thanks for the kind words. It has been a great learning experience and no better way than to just do it. I spent about three months reading and learning before i even tried to get started. I wanted to get the best results i could with the limitations i gave myself.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ers/163914-essentials-sound-quality-imho.html One of many threads that are so helpful on diyma. 
Did a little bit of tuning just trying to get stage right. Very pleased with the mids. Played a few of the Meca recommended tunes. Suitcase by Keb Mo vocals are just as Meca described pretty cool to know that the work is paying off. I can pick out locations of different instruments and vocals. Everything has its on place.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Upgrade time. Dun dun dun wait for it --- Ok now that i got your attention. Let me explain. 
I have been faced with a whine noise, a ground loop, that i have finally tracked down. Turns out it was the amplifiers. Well specifically the left channel amp. The helix blue b 4s obviously are not the top quality amplifier, but they are decent enough. The noise had continued to grow worse to a point a couldn't take it anymore.
So i spent some time today figuring out why the noise was there and was able to determine that the input rca ground caps, the little metal piece you push your rca cable on to, were not make proper contact internally. I had a couple of the caps come out when i tried to pull the rca off. The rca's are realllly tight. 
So i decided to pull the amplifier apart to see what was what. I found that the rca input was designed so that the rca ground cap pushes into a plastic holder and makes contact with a solid ground bar that is shared with a pair of channels. I was surprised to find that this was how it was designed. I would have thought that it would be designed as a solid piece or atleast soldered into place.
Ohmed each of the ground caps out and found the resistance was all over the place. Continuity, Depending on how hard the cap was pushed in was all over the place. 
Time for an upgrade. No i am not talking about buying a new amp or anything like that. What i am talking about is a little DIY. A simple fix to the problem. What needs to be done here is figure out a way to make good continuity. 
Ok here is how i went about doing this. First i removed all of the rca ground caps from the holders. Then i stripped some wire down bare. Thats right buck naked. The rca cap holders have very small holes that the caps go into and i had to determine how many strands of wire i could get through the small hole. Once i figured that out i soldered the strands of wires to the rca ground cap and had to carefully feed the wires through. The solder had to be just barely enough, just a drop, to keep the wires in place and make good contact. Anything more and it would go through. Now that the cap is back in place, with the strands attached, i cut it to length so that it was not to long. Dont want it to touch anything and create a short. So now its just long enough to loop back to the grounding bar. Now the fun part. Soldering the strands directly to the grounding bar was no easy task. With the small size and plastic and 
Resistors in such close proximity i was worried about melting something. I took some finesse and patience and a magnifing glass, but i got all of them done on this amp.
I also decided will i was already in there to do a little maintaince. Cleaned up grounds and added dielectric lubricant for improved contact. Made sure everything was lined up perfectly when it was put back together. 
Now that i got it hooked back up, wow, big difference. The noise is 95% gone, can only here it with no music playing, truck running, and my ear right next to the speaker. Not only is the noise gone, but also, the left channel is 1 db louder than it was before. Also the music sounds better a little cleaner. Can tell this best by the fact before i wouldn't want to turn the volume above 15. Now i can go up to 26 without distortion. Above that im maxing the mids out, but were talking about 100db vs 90db. So now i am wanting to do the same to the other amp, even though I have no noise issue from it. And maybe the dsp also if its designed the same way. Who would ever think that such a simple little thing would be so important to the sound quality. Just shows there is a difference in build quality that can effect the overall system. Fortunately, with a little DIY attitude, this time it was a free fix. Just took a little time. So don't just automatically give up on something. You just might be able to come up with a solution to fix the issue yourself.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

^^^ Very cool man! I like your approach.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Hum, my approach, hadn't really thought about that before. Feel like i have gone back and forth a few times, must be the a.d.d. Thats why they call me skippy. 
I guess i see in issue and try to come up with the solution. I am a problem solver. That's pretty much what my job. I guess it carries over.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Started working on the sub stage. Installed sub amp. Built a mount for it. Cleaned all my wiring up. Made some "drapes" to cover the other to amps and help with a little sound deadening. Threw down some vibration damp on the rear. Stuffed some home insulation in the c-pillars and some vibration damp.Also mounted sub gain switch in center console. Well thats enough for today. Here are some pics


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Software update for dsp version 3.10b is loaded and ready to go. Seems to be working just fine. Unfortunately the old tuning session files are now obsolete so have to enter everything manually. Think i will just rta and retune. I want to take it a step further anyways. So hopefully sometime this week.
Easter Sunday and all coming don't know if I will be able to do anything this weekend.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...gnment-using-only-noise-tracks-your-ears.html http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...n/84643-time-alignment-driver-seperation.html I have been working on tuning the system using rew. I was never satisfied with the results. So now to take it a step further. I am working following the steps outlined in the preceding threads that i attached. These will allow me to get a cleaner and more precise image. I have been going about tuning in a limited way. So for me i always try to find a different way of doing something when the results of the first method arn't getting me where i want. So now im trying to combine a few methods and see where it takes me.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

You ever have one of those moments when the light comes on and you begin to understand. The apefany moment 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...44399-rta-walkthrough-usage-thread-video.html I have been reading through this thread and the links and i believe i understand why we do what we do when we tune. Its one of those times i think i know what i need to do to get the results i want. Also i have been misterming things. So this noob apologies for that. 
So here is what i believe i need to do. The midbass needs treatment, sound absorbing material. The tuning will be redone. Going to get to work on the sub for now need to get it done. 
Im going to need a sound card that will allow me to create a loopback and send a signal out at the same time. My laptop has been creating some of my tuning issues. More test equipment to do it right.
So coming soon the sub box build. Nothing crazy for now i dont have time to do what i wanted to.


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## troutspinner (Nov 8, 2013)

What mic are you using? With a pre-amp calibrated mic like a Dayton Audio EMM-6, you load the config file and you are done, no loopback to worry about.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I am using the dayton umm6 usb mic. I have a cheap laptop. I have been using the mic cal file with no sound card. The rew software defaults to java. I was thinking if i used a sound card i could send the signal out from the laptop and have a reference. I was just thinking that it might be able to give me better results with a sound card. Right now i have been using a test cd in the head unit. Running sine sweep to do fine eq and pink noise to try to set phase between speakers. I still havent gotten to eq were i could use tones to set each frequency for center. 
There are a few things i would like to do so i can figure out the best sequence to go through to get the results i want. Rew is great, but doesnt get me as far as it can be.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Started working on the sub box. Made a frame that contours to the floor pan. Also cut a top board. Need to fiberglass it all in forst though. Made some calculations and came up with 0.66ft3 minus the sub displacement, should be pretty close to 0.5ft3. I was thinking about adding one piece to make it larger. I will see how much space i lose with the fiberglass. I think if i fill the void in the front around the sub i will make up for any loss from the fiberglass thickness. This will allow me to leave the rear seat at stock height.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Yup, im no carpenter looks pretty blah. It will get covered up so nobody is the wiser. I screwed the top piece on and pulled the screws back out just so its already predrilled. The hard part was matching the contour of the floor. Compound curves are a pita. The fiberglass should take care of any of the tiny gaps i hope. The main thing i wanted to do was as closely as i could match the floor. While at the same time having an even pitch on top so the top piece wouldnt have any gaps. I am going to grab some wood glue and run a bead between every piece. Then screw it all together so hopefully no leaks.


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## troutspinner (Nov 8, 2013)

Funny, I meant to list the UMM but I typed EMM instead. Must have other things on the brain. Anyways, generating a tone without a sound card could lead to some mixed results so I see what you are saying.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I had tried to run an internal cal. On the laptop through REW but it couldnt give me any good results. Not even close keeps saying varies to much across the test that its doing. Im guessing part of that is i only have a 3.5mm input and output. No left and right channels. So running a loopback just cant work with this laptop. Guess that's why I'm unsure of the reading im getting. 
I have had mixed results some good, some bad. Part of the learning process. I believe i notice the biggest difference not from eq but from getting the phase correct and t.a. set for a proper center. Then again with a bad tune i get shifts and modal issues. So getting the eq set correctly is still very important. Just saying even with a good tuning session with good results it still will sound way off until the speakers are in phase and i have a good center. Then i can start fine tuning. The little cuts 1db here or there trying to get rid of any shifts from variations of left vs right response that REW cant do. Cause you cant really cut say 400hz and boost 410.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Nice work man! I must have missed it... what sub are you gonna be running?


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I went all out with the S.I. bm mk iv.:surprised: Lol, Well its more than I've ever spent for a sub before. All for the persuit of s.q. Hoping its worth it. Will find out soon  I went this route because I have never had a sub setup that sounded good. Loud yes but for sound quality not so much.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

skippytech said:


> I went all out with the S.I. bm mk iv.:surprised: Lol, Well its more than I've ever spent for a sub before. All for the persuit of s.q. Hoping its worth it. Will find out soon  I went this route because I have never had a sub setup that sounded good. Loud yes but for sound quality not so much.


Cool, nice choice. Definitely a "different" and clean sounding sub.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Yes that is what i have been told .
Wish i had the time to do more with the sub box. Wanted to cut the metal frame surrounding the front and make the front of the box to run across standing up on edge. Then cut and recess a piece of plexiglass on the inside of the board. Then cut out a design on the the outside edge of the board, Back light it and have a projected pattern. Or get a piece of wood to glue to the front vertical board and get my neighbor to do a wood carving scene across it. You know just something different make it one off. Maybe later on. I want to get everything done for now. Still so much to do --- finish installing sub, pull front doors back apart and treat them, pull headliner and treat the roof, pull every trim piece and dampen to get rid of rattles, pull some of the dash apart have rattles there also, tune again on and on it will go. Guess im just very picky. If it ain't right then it's gotta get fixed, lol. Until it sounds better than anything i have ever heard before, oh boy. 
So i would say at this point this build will be a log of my personal progress as i learn and develop my methods as well as the build. I can already see differences in how i look at things now from how i was looking at things when i first started the build. Nice to be able to look back and have a log of everything. Since i will probably never truly be done.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Couple more pics of the progress on the sub enclosure














Cut the hole out and counter sunk it tight fit. Rounded over the edges. Will end up covering it with carpet. Fairly pleased with it. Never built a box like this before so no surprise that its not perfect. Now time to glass in the bottom.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Off top, they say everything is bigger in texas---







That is an ant. There are thousands of them crawling around right now. Had some hard ran 2 days ago that brought them out. Supposed to be getting more ran so waiting for the weather to get better before i do anymore work on the truck.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok so i spoke with second skin today about the issues that I have been working on with the doors. What is happening is i have essentially created bass enclosures. It is severe enough that the pressure in the doors is building up enough to were the window is being pushed away from the panel. What was suggested was to open up a small hole in the inner skin to vent it like a port. That os a simple and quick check that can be done to see how it effects the system so i will give it a try. 
I am also thinking of pulling the inner skin back off, not as easy now, to put a few layers of treatment inside the door. Possibly a layer of auto jute- a heavy dense tight woven wool-like fiber material as an absorber. Followed by a vinyl backed thin layer- the stuff o used to cover the amps up- and a layer of ccf- luxury liner pro or something similar. Maybe even a layer of hard fiberglass ,the dense yellow stuff like a/c duct insulation, should be enough to absorb some i hope. Also perhaps just some sort of membrane might work like a fiberglass material wrapped in plastic. Not sure what combination might work if any. Guess i will just experiment around and see. May be mute point since the low frequencies wavelength are to long. I'm just think something is better than nothing.
Since deflex pads arnt a viable option for defraction in my doors either, no way to install it properly. No room directly behind the speaker because of the window regulator and the outer skin is to far away. 
Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms 
This is a very good read on treatments. Its based on studio and home audio so not exactly the same as car audio, informative though. 
This talks about the membrane 
http://mobileaudioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?6905-SQ-guys-Strategic-acoustic-deadening&p=149447 
I have read through a bunch of threads but haven't found any real definite answers yet. Seems like there is a lot of different ways to try to deal with treatment and each application is going to vary. Lot of differing opnions no definitive answer. Each type of product has its own benifit, but not one that will do it all. Unless you want to break the bank on a multi layer product that combines a certain amount of each thing. 
Open cell foam might help but bad in doors, will get wet and need atleast 3 feet thick. Ccf will defract which should help, but on its own probably wont take care of as much as would be desired. Seems like multi layers of different density materials is described as being more effective.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok guess i should have finished doing more research before posting yesterday. Instead of editing that post i will just state what i found. 
I wish i had just gone to sds website to start. Helped explain more what to do. It this point i see no reason to pull the doors apart. All i have to do is make the "barrier" on the inner skin behind the door panel. I am thinking jute-absorber,ccf-decoupler,mlv-barrier, then to keep the mlv decoupled from door panel itself a second ccf. Wouldnt want the mlv to rub on the panel i dont think. To deaden or try to stop the door panels from resinating and a little more absorbtion, .i would like to use jute on the door panels themselves if toom permits. If not i have some famp left.
Do the same all around ccf, mlv. Would like to get a more dense foam to put in pillar but need to see what product will work without bending the metal. Wouldnt want to get an expanding foam that would mess something up. So that will be the next step after i get the sub done. Create my bubble,. Just hope it doesnt get popped, lol. Still do need to see if i can fix the pressure issue in the doors aswell, but that will be a quick check so no sweat there.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok little fyi, finally figured out what the material i put over the amps was post #49. I found it hidden upstairs in the shop so didnt know exactly. I believe it is the thin non-mlv you get at home depot. Not very heavy though pretty thin stuff seems like it has a very thin layer of carpet like material on it. I have noticed that there is a change in road noise db with it down. Found this out when i rolled the windows down and it blew down. Dont think its anywere near heavy enough though. Just not enough of a barrier to do much good.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

*Re: 2012 Ram quad cab sport, First sq build*

Been working on the sub enclosure over the weekend. Put down 3 layers. Need clean up some areas and add some more to weak areas. Hopefully can have it done this week. The first 2 layers went down pretty decent but was having some trouble getting in some of the odd locations to go were i wanted and getting to hold against the frame. So i taped a layer around the lip to get it to stay were i wanted. I had let the first two layers completely dry because i ran out of time to mess with it. When i put the third layer down it got some air pockets so i am going to have to fix those ares. First time working with glass warning to any who haven't worked with this material use every form of protection you can this is some nasty stuff.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok finally got the sub enclosure put together. I made a mistake when positioning the speaker cut out. It should have been 1 inch further forward. Instead of going back in and redoing the whole thing i made a spacer ring from mdf to raise the speaker up. That was all that was needed to clear. I was just rubbing on the floor as it turns down and only just barely. 
So the sub is in and i need to carpet the sub enclosure and do the acoustic treatment and fix all the new rattles. Wow that sub has the back half resinating lots of stuff to fix. 
The sub isnt loud and has its limit which is found very quickly, but i never expected it to be loud. So i retuned the system and have to say i am very happy with the sub. 
So my impression of the si mkiv ( now discontinued). Rta sweep shows the sub frequency response is almost flat. It carries out higher than expected and i was able to take advantage of that. So i changed some things. Sub lp set at 100, midbass 100-270, mid 330-6000, tweeter 6k up. The reason for this is that i never could tune around the midbass being crossed at 380. It never sounded correct. It was effecting vocals. So retuned , rta sweep left then right used rew correction recommendation. Rew was wanting a 4db cut at 40hz but looking at the response it was flat so i left it alone. So in the end i didn't have to make a single eq adjustment to the sub it was exactly were it needed to be after level setting the gain of coarse. Set time alignment and phase using pink noise. 
Now the new tune. Finally the system sounds complete. The sub changed everything. I am surprised it blended so well. With the new setting it fixed the most of the midbass issues and some of the midrange issues in tonality i was having. Still have a slight echo in tenor vocals at times that i dont think can be fix. I believe it is because of the windshield. Overall it sounds better. Never imagined adding the sub would fix so much. I think i can finally leave things alone for a little while and just listen.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Like always can never leave anything alone. Been targetting the vocal issue i was having. I found that it was between the crossover point of the mids and midbass. So i have been working on finding the sweet spot. :cheesy: i found that the midbass are the cause of the issue and lower the crossover removes the issue so 240 at 12db lp and mids to 360 12db hp and i get a cleaner response. Just beed to see were the mids can sound the best try not to leave a hole there. sounds better than it ever has before though so moving in the right direction.


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## cjbrownco (Apr 30, 2014)

I was reading a few post back about your hiss and whine noise you were getting and I thought I would share my similar problem on a different truck. I'm sure most of you know a whole lot more about this than me but I was using factory signal with loc to amps and had major hiss and distortion at higher volume problems. I redone my wiring, rca, swapped different amps, all sorts of stuff. I did not want to even begin to acknowledge it was my factory head unit that was integrated into my truck. I finaly took a gamble on a Pioneer 80PRS and it has absolutely zero noise or distortion up to ear splitting levels. It was my factory head unit all along. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps someone, sorry if I cluttered your thread.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

I have thought of that. Totally hear you on that. I know the left amp has a problem that i was able to fix to some degree. I got that one used so it is what it is till i can afford some new equipment. I want to put an 80prs in. I think that is what i used to have just cant remember may have been the version before the 80prs came out. I think the old lady thru it out or pawned it dang it. Dont know if you remember my rules in the first post. Supposed to be keeping the stock head unit, but i may break that rule. I need to upgrade the midbass speakers at some point i know they are giving me some of my trouble in tonality. I have been able to work around it to a certain point. I may when time allows go ahead and build some fiberglass enclosures in the dash for the mids to help there low end extension. Just such a big project to tear the dash out to do it. :baby: yup procrastinating on it.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Well one thing about this project i have discovered something about myself. I am a little bit ocd when it come to this. Never satisfied with good enough. Lmao People think im going way over board on this. They cant see what i am trying to achieve. They just dont understand.
I am surprised by how many have such a bad misconception of what sounds good. I guess most people are so used to listening to bad sound quality that it is what they think it is supposed to sound like.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok finally have the tune corrected. Im such a knob. My thinking was off. I was still trying to set time based off not having a sub and leaving the sub at zero. Wrong!!! Using the tracerite.com calculator made me realize i was way off. So i reset all the timing using the calculator to give me a starting point. Then using pink noise i adjusted center and phase. Made a big difference. Already had a decent tune so ran some more sweeps to see how far off everything was. Yup have 4 or 5 spots that need some more work. Ran through the rew eq feature. New tune is much cleaner. About as good as i have ever had. When i get the chance i will post my tune results. Took a lot to get there, but im much happier now than ever before. It may not be perfect, but its getting much closer now. Close to the point i am not hearing hardly any issues anymore.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok got some more pics for yall.







so pic of sub put together. Stiil need to carpet it.







about as flat as i can get the spl response did leave tweeters at a slight rise mids are at 6 db roll of tweeters are in line with a 4 db roll off. Did this on purpose sounds better to me this way.







best waterfall graph, but the time frame is 800ms because of the bass carring with cabin gain. Still before i had no roll off in the bass even at 800ms window.







still think there has got to be away to make things better but distortion is down. 
I have noticed over the last few tuning sessions how important attempting to get everything in phase is. Most of the time if i see a prak or bad dip i can corilate it to phase issues. The hard thing is every time i move the mic the phase issue moves to a different position. Say sweep at right ear may have phase issue at 4500 taise mic 1 inch no phase is good at 4500 but then i have a phase shift at 200. Very interesting i am going to have to study up on this and see how to best attack a new better tune. I want perfection, lol. Somehow i am going to find a better way of going about tuning and getting better results. Im happy with my tune to a point but there has to be a way to get it just a little better. To me i hear so localization in the midbass due to the new alignment and i cant add time to remove the localization without causing a problem in vocals . Somewere in the response i get a shift or overlap causing an unwanted echo effect. I could try to keep shifting everything out but at what point is it to far out then? Im worried i will keep chasing the issue as it moves around. I can see this in the phase. It will move up and then down almost impossible to get it perfect. If i fix it based off of one mic location as soon as the muc is moved to the next spot say right ear to left ear it shows itself again. If you were to try to fix it on the left then the right would be off again. Like chasing a ghost.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok finally got some good cds to listen to and makes a big difference how it sounds. I have been using mp3 and 3.5mm jack and now i can tell that most of what i have been fussing about is due to the poor quality of the factory jack in the head unit. Sound quality is much better in the cd player of coarse. I alreasy new it would be, but not this much better. Better focus, no echo, no localizing in the midbass, no interference between midbass and mids. Mids are more clear midbass is more focused doesnt move around. Using a tune i had set up last week that i went in and worked everything, then at the end i focused on getting phase correct all the way across the spectrum. Had to go in and redo a few areas to get phase back in sync. Change q and timing here and there till it all looked good. I want to go back in and check the eq for peaks from the changes but very happy right now. Major relief that it wasnt the speakers.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Good that you go it figured, but IMO maybe not so much the poor quality of the HU jack input, but actually the poor quality of the MP3 format!! At leas that is what I have noticed with mine.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Yes your right i said that wrong didnt i my bad.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

skippytech said:


> Ok finally got some good cds to listen to and makes a big difference how it sounds. I have been using mp3 and 3.5mm jack and now i can tell that most of what i have been fussing about is due to the poor quality of the factory jack in the head unit. Sound quality is much better in the cd player of coarse. I alreasy new it would be, but not this much better. Better focus, no echo, no localizing in the midbass, no interference between midbass and mids. Mids are more clear midbass is more focused doesnt move around. Using a tune i had set up last week that i went in and worked everything, then at the end i focused on getting phase correct all the way across the spectrum. Had to go in and redo a few areas to get phase back in sync. Change q and timing here and there till it all looked good. I want to go back in and check the eq for peaks from the changes but very happy right now. Major relief that it wasnt the speakers.





seafish said:


> Good that you go it figured, but IMO maybe not so much the poor quality of the HU jack input, but actually the poor quality of the MP3 format!! At leas that is what I have noticed with mine.


I am at a point where I can't listen to much mp3 anymore, I am becoming more and more aware of how bad it sounds. When you have a ****ty system you don't notice it really, but as soon as you get a good sq system properly installed and tuned, it's almost irritating to listen to the compressed stuff... 

Skippytech great job with your build and tuning! I saw that BM!


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Yes sir , i would have to agree. I had noticed there is a difference in the quality of different formats. Now my system may not be competition quality but i have put much love and labor into it, lol. What i am seeing is that if it is recorded it is going to get played back. Good or bad . Now i have to find high quality recording if i am going to be able to enjoy the music. Time to start the persuit of putting together a music collection. 
Very tempted to make a few changes to the system still hehe. Will have to wait and see what i can do next. Once the funds return i will see if i can get a head unit do the sound treatment and some speakers may get upgraded. I want to work a couple of more tunes but im saving this one for now. Ive been jammin with stevie ray Vaughan and the Eagles and lovin it.


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## skippytech (Dec 26, 2014)

Well spent a little time messing around with the system today. Wanted to clean some things up. So i started by taking a look at the system as a hole. Runnin sweeps and seeing were i had holes at. Started playing around with crossovers and found were i could clean some things up. I let the front stage speakers free up by change the crossovers. Midbass 68 - 327 this helped the bottom end and teally helped bass to move up front more. Still have the sub playing to 100 just happens that it needed the reinforcement from the front aswell to teally help it out. Mids 345 - 6000 not much of a change here. Tweeters 4800 up helped clean up some things on the top end and gave the system a little more accurate tonality. Using the same tune as before with the changes to the crossovers ran rew auto eq recommendations and found no eq adjustments that could be done only recommended some q adjustments. So made those changes and then reset timing for the new crossover points. Overall i think it sounds a little better. Some songs that seemed off sound better now. Finally sweep shows slight improvements in linearity. Some improvement in distortion in some areas looking at the waterfall and distortion graphs. Thing that was pleasantly surprising was phase is clean all the way to 10k with a slight ofset there. For me anything that high i cant tell. I guess my hearing is falling off with age. I barely hear 10k and xant hear anything above 14k for sure. So i think i have done about as much as i can at this point with tuning using the equipment and speakers that i have. Im sure i will listen for three days and change my mind,lol, but sounds pretty darn good as far as i can hear. 
It maybe a little while before i can do anything else. Still have quite a few things left to do but for now i am going to be taking a break. So i am going to start looking into music recordings and file formats and pick up some more cds and see if i can start burning some cds.


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