# BMW 540i e39 1st DIY install - Panny+Zapco+Soundstream+HAT+AE



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Alrighty, time to get this build log started.

A word of warning... I tend to get wordy and post lots of pics. Sorry, or you're welcome, you choose. 

The car is my DD that I've owned for for 10 years now, a 2000 BMW 540i 6-speed sedan in titanium silver with black interior. I love the silver, I haven't washed the car since last fall, yet it still looks sort of clean, even though it's actually filthy, see below...

The car:



Fun with Photoshop... it was a cold gloomy day anyway. 




The headunit, a Panny Bottlehead (CQ-TX5500W):



The above replaced a Pioneer touchscreen unit (AVH-3400BT) that I never used for anything besides an iPod/iPhone interface, that was slow, so I ditched it. The Panny fit just fine in the double din bezel I was using (a Metra bezel), and looks/sounds much better...absolutely loving the VU meters...

Amps, processor, speakers:

Zapco 150.2 (need to purchase) - right side mids and highs
Zapco 150.2 (need to purchase) - left side mids and highs

Zapco 400.2 (need to purchase) OR Soundstream Ref4.760 (own) - mid bass
Soundstream Ref1.1000 - subs

Zapco DSP-Z8

Hybrid Audio 3-way front:
L1v2s
L3SEs
L8v1s

Both L1s and L3s directly on-axis in pillars and sails.
L8s in doors.

Acoustic Elegance IB15au's (I ordered these first in case they took a while to get, but they really didn't, and arrived exactly when John said they would!)




Last summer I decided to "freshen up" my motor since it hit 115k miles, and I plan to keep this car a long time. So, I replaced the intake manifold (w/ an M60 manifold) and gaskets, VCGs (and powder coated the VGs), upper/lower timing chain gaskets, timing chains, chain guilds and tensioner, oil separator (why I started all this), CCV and related, upper and lower oil pan gaskets, spark plugs (iridiums), fuel filter, every o-ring I could find... the complete front suspension (still need to do the rear), Koni's all around, rear differential (w/ an M5 3.15 LSD) and clutch, resurfaced my lightweight flywheel, etc...

Runs awesome. Saved, I don't know, $6-7k in labor by doing everything myself. Here's a pic as I was re-assembling... oh so fresh and clean 




A couple years ago I took the car to an audio place and had a mediocre system installed that sounded not better than the stock system, with a sub added. Polk db 5 1/4" 2-ways in stock positions w/ a Kenwood powered sub (KSC-SW10, a 5x7 driver w/ a 5x7 passive radiator) under the glovebox. Oddly enough, this set up, despite the small drivers and no processing, gives me a good amount of front impact/attack, hit me in the chest type of feeling that another thread on here goes on and on about. Problem here is the otherwise mediocre sound and lack of real midbass. Amp was a JL XD700/5 for the Polk mids and highs.

Ground loop noise got to me and I started tearing into the system. Saw how screwy their wiring job was, and re-did everything. Exactly what I didn't want to do. Get back into OCD car audio... I discovered one of the channels on the JL amp was the source of the noise, and replaced it with a Soundstream Ref4.760... much, much quieter and more power.

This is where I'm starting from.

Install will include door build outs for the L8s, A-pillar fabrication for the L3SEs (glassing), grinding the flanges off the L1v2s to get them in the oem sail positions, and building a baffle for the AE subs. My car doesn't have the fold-down seats option, so that _should_ be easier... 

This will be my first car audio install attempt since my old-school days (mid/late 80's) of RF and Alpine back in SoCal.
First attempt at using a router, and first attempt at fiberglassing, so we'll see... :blush:

A complete dash install may happen here too since I have an all-leather dash and center console from an extended leather-optioned M5, as well as an Alcantara headliner. Stay tuned...

BTW, I will not be treading new ground here with this install, since I will be going by e39 installs done previously by Benny Z, Timmay77, and others... Thanks guys!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I love it! And really like the car too. But yes, this looks to be an impressive build for sure.


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

Very nice Tim, can't wait to see more progress. 
Good luck


----------



## KyleMDunn (Jan 27, 2009)

I absolutely love this car. A good friend of mine's father had one of these in high school - 6 speed as well. My friend and I used to "steal" it all of the time and go joy-riding. One of my favorite cars to drive...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks guys! I've always liked this car a lot, and don't ever plan on selling it, so I don't mind putting in all the work!

First things first, time to shave the L1v2s and see if they will fit in the oem sail spot. Someone once said this couldn't be done. I, of course, took that as a challenge.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Alrighty, here we have an L1v2, final prototype before the production run. Note the lack of a plastic terminal cup. These were sourced from Team Hybrid member Dave Brooks on the cheap to see if they could be squeezed into the oem sails.

I know the L1v1s will fit after trimming (barely), so I figured I'd give it a shot, and if I screw up the drivers, no biggie since I have a pair of L1v1s on back up.

The L1v1s have plastic flange, so it's easy to trim those, the L1v2's flange is aluminum:










These terminal posts are just too long... so they have to go, I'll solder the speaker leads to what's left after cutting them down.





After first round of grinding, compared to the L1v1:



The grill will likely have to go:



All cut/trimmed and ready for the initial fitment:



After soldering on the speaker leads and checking the resistance to make sure I didn't screw them up, I check aiming and fitment.
Looking good, but I need to shave off more flange... :blush:



After more grinding, and fastened to a bracket:



IT FITS!!!

I failed to take a final pic before buttoning it up (for now), but I did end up grinding off the bottom part of the flange as well. The only part of the flange that remains is the top that has a bolt hole for fastening.

The driver's side L1v2 is directly on-axis pointed at my left ear.



The passenger's side L1v2 point's at my right ear. It's in there. You really can't tell it isn't oem, at least until the pillar build out and the L8s replace those anemic 5 1/4" Polks...  There's nothing in the oem mid spot (next to the A/C vent)





Yes, this is going to be a 1 seat car...


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Great build.. I'll be watching this.. Glad to see another OCD car nut that does not mind tearing into the engine room.. Great work on the engine, Tim..


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> Great build.. I'll be watching this.. Glad to see another OCD car nut that does not mind tearing into the engine room.. Great work on the engine, Tim..


Thanks man, I appreciate it! It was my first attempt at going this deep into an engine. Any engine. I figure if I can do it... 

Here's a couple more pics of the motor before going back to audio.

Here is as far as I went, replacing the timing chain, guides, tensioner, o-rings, gaskets and oil separator, all of which have been removed before this pic.










OCD is useful sometimes. I really wanted to replace my upper oil pan gasket, hardly anyone does it because it's such a ***** to get to. Requires raising the engine AND dropping the subframe. What a PITA! Got it done though... 
(the new gasket is the green one in the above pic, it goes where the cleaned surface is in the below pic). Timing the motor was... intimidating, but not too bad with the right tools (that I rented). I am NOT a mechanic, BTW...


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

EditTim said:


>


Very clean crank for 115k miles.. Syn Oil all the way.. And I have to say, that is one clean block (I am guessing you did that) I am not a mechanic either, learned everything myself.. Just need the right tools.. I have done everything I can think of sans body work..
I am starting to get that tuner itch and I might start gathering turbo parts and put that in the car myself as well..


----------



## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

Looking good so far. This is my favorite generation of the 5-series. Good job on cramming the hybrids in the factory locations.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> Very clean crank for 115k miles.. Syn Oil all the way.. And I have to say, that is one clean block (I am guessing you did that) I am not a mechanic either, learned everything myself.. Just need the right tools.. I have done everything I can think of sans body work..
> I am starting to get that tuner itch and I might start gathering turbo parts and put that in the car myself as well..


Thanks again, and yup... the cleanliness is all me. Everything was nearly spotless before I reassembled anything. Purple Power goes a long way.

I know what you mean regarding tuning. I thought I got that out of my system years ago (I'm in my 40's), but when I was doing the motor work, I found myself buying a supercharger, figuring now would be the time to do it, until I snapped out of it and sold it for what I paid. Funny thing about that... the guy I sold the supercharger to installed it, drove it a short time, decided it wasn't what he was expecting, and bought an e39 M5... :laugh:
Power is funny like that. More in never enough, so I reasoned with myself. I live in a (relatively) big city, downtown, a fair distance away from good roads. I want my car last a long time. The supercharger just didn't make sense from that point of view. It puts a parasitic drag on the motor at all times, no matter what your right foot is doing, and since I'd rarely use that kind of power in the city, I nixed the idea. It wasn't a twin-scroll unit anyway. Nitrous would make more sense for my application, to be honest.

BTW, nice install! Love the trunk you've got going on. Huge improvement over your last install... well done!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

chevbowtie22 said:


> Looking good so far. This is my favorite generation of the 5-series. Good job on cramming the hybrids in the factory locations.


Thank you, sir. Mine too. I won't sell it. I bought it right before the e60's came out, and I was like, WTF? The f10s are getting there though...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Sub baffle time!

I picked up a 4'x8' sheet of 3/4" birch plywood for most of the baffle from Home Depot. They only had one piece in stock, and a corner was f'd up, so they took $10 off (yay) and cut it into 4 pieces for me, $35. I'm using a layer of 3/4" MDF too that the subs are actually going to be mounted to. A total of 5 layers of 3/4" birch/MDF.

After the layers were initial cut to size, with subs on top for general placement:





Time to break out the router and Jasper circle jig. I've owned this router for years, but only used it once last year briefly.










OK, circles are cut!

The plan for the layers:
1 - a piece of birch with the ski-pass cut out. Goes against the seat back to give the rest of the baffle something flat to bolt to.
2 - a piece of birch that surrounds the subs and acts as a spacer so the cones' suspension have room to move.
3 - the piece of MDF, routed a bit to counter-sink the subs. Again, to make room for the cones' suspension.
4 - goes behind the subs to add mass and stiffness.
5 - same as layer 4.



















Now it's time to round the edges. Having a router is quite nice!










I went ahead and painted the MDF piece black to help with moisture.



















Now I've got to cut out the ski-pass. My car didn't come with this option either, lol...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

So, time to break out the reciprocating saw, measure twice, cut once, lol...










and done!










Now I'm checking fitment of the first layer of the baffle, with edge molding sourced from McMaster-Carr:



















Right on, things coming along according to plan so far... 

Here's the first 2 pieces of the baffle, with T-nuts installed, and how they'll fit together. The subs will be firing into this...










...edges painted black, and check for fitment...




















I've got some butyl rope from [email protected] that will fill the gaps and make for a nice seal.

Some CDL for resonance and to fill some holes in the parcel tray, and YES, I'm keeping my full-sized spare. I've needed it way too many times here in Atlanta to lose it.



















Some Damplifier to cover to whole area under the parcel shelf. Note the large 3/8" bolts that will bolt everything to the sheet metal behind the seats. There's three across the top (shown), and two across the bottom (not shown). This is in addition to the 12 fasteners around the ski-pass and 2 more that only bolts layer 1 to the seat back. The first two layers are now glued and screwed together.










There are gaps between the baffle and the seat back metal, so I used a caliper to check the thickness of the gaps, and made spacers...



















I hate MDF. A couple of the MDF spacers separated and had to be re-glued. The glued bond between the spacers and the baffle was stronger than the bonds holding together the particles of the MDF itself. Nice. Never again...

Now it's time to carpet the rest of the baffle. I used Flexform Medium Graphite to try to match the rest of the trunk carpet, which is NOT a salt & pepper varying color like most trunk liners. It's a solid grey, no lights and darks. This unit will then bolt to the first two pieces with the (5) 3/8" bolts and T-nuts mounted to layer 5.










Sophie is like, "Oh come on dad, hurry the hell up on this project, we've got some walking to do!"

"Sorry Sophie, this project has barely started..."










...and installed. Man, this thing is SOLID! 

The gap at the top will not be seen. All of the amps (besides the sub amp) are being mounted to an amp rack installed under the parcel tray (not fabricated yet), blocking the view of said gap. You'd have to bend way down to see it anyway.










Now it's time to deal with mounting the sub amp...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Initially I was planning on using Zapco Z-2KD for sub duty, but it's a touch too long for the location I want to put it.
The Soundstream Ref1.1000 is a great, class G amp that will give my AE subs plenty of power and headroom. The Ref4.760 I currenty have has been great. No noise, super clean, and great sounding, so I figured I couldn't go wrong with the Ref1.1000, and coming in at just under 19" long, it BARELY fits, once I take out the stock amp and brackets.
By BARELY, I mean it will only go in heatsink first. So, I ditched the rear cover and replaced it with plexiglass, with a gap all around to provide proper ventilation.

Now I have to rig up a bracket or two to mount this thing...

The stock amp and brackets... out with the old:










...and in with the new...





















Well, this brings the build log to current status. The rest of the progress will be in real time (read: slow).

I should have the amp brackets done by the weekend, and then I'll get started on the pillar build outs. Breaking new ground for me for sure...

Thanks for watching!


----------



## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

Excellent! Glad to see this in the works!


BTW my truck is coming along nicely and it is....... :0 even without a proper tune


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

It looks great Tim!!!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

darrenforeal said:


> Excellent! Glad to see this in the works!
> 
> 
> BTW my truck is coming along nicely and it is....... :0 even without a proper tune


Awesome! I can't wait to hear both of your builds whenever I get out that way this summer... 



wdemetrius1 said:


> It looks great Tim!!!


Thanks D, means a lot coming from a local guy like yourself. Got a ways to go before my system sounds as sweet as yours though...


----------



## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

nicely done! I am curious why you didn't open up more of the firewall, like out to the diagonal stamped braces?

Kudos on the engine work- upper pan gasket> you are a glutton for punishment 

how much of a pia was resetting the vanos? I Recently redid a 98, so no vanos.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

danno14 said:


> nicely done! I am curious why you didn't open up more of the firewall, like out to the diagonal stamped braces?


Thanks, danno!

Oh, I don't know, never thought about it. The hole I made is exactly the same size as the opening when the rear armrest is down, which will be down anytime I'm driving/listening. It was easy to seal that opening, and I honestly don't know if a larger cutout would make a bit of difference sound-wise. How it is now, the subs are firing directly into the pressurized cabin, with the rear sound waves sealed off completely. From what I understand, this is what works best for these cars.

Here's a mock-up from the back seat. I haven't taken a pic of the actual install yet since I still need to make a grill. The baffle is darker now too (not bronze), in an attempt to go with the rest of the trim in the car (charcoal w/ a hint of champagne?):






danno14 said:


> Kudos on the engine work- upper pan gasket> you are a glutton for punishment
> 
> how much of a pia was resetting the vanos? I Recently redid a 98, so no vanos.


Yeah, that upper pan gasket was a bigger pain than I anticipated, and I was anticipating a bloody nightmare. It would have been easier if I had an actual engine hoist. I used some house scaffolding and chain to lift the motor. I have no desire to replace THAT gasket ever again. I buttoned it up with some Hylomar for good measure. Stuff like the valley pan and gasket were child's play by comparison. Glutton for punishment... yup!

Here's what that badboy looks like off the car...



I didn't actually touch the VANOS, beyond the standard timing procedure. I have absolutely no VANOS noise, so I passed on the VANOS seal rebuilding for now. Beisan Systems' VANOS seals were still in beta when I did the work last summer.

Timing the motor with the proper (rented) tools wasn't bad. It looks complicated and intimidating, but I got it timed properly on the first attempt, with no timing related errors. Honestly, I was surprised since a lot of guys were having trouble, getting errors and the dreaded SES (check engine) light, although many of them did the VANOS seals, and problems may be related to that. Last I heard, Raj from Beisan was working on a tool to help with replacing the seals without timing problems.


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

EditTim said:


> BTW, nice install! Love the trunk you've got going on. Huge improvement over your last install... well done!


Much appreciated.. My goal was to end up with a show worthy install and still have a very usable trunk.. (and spare) but it was not an install for someone with big hands.. got the cuts to prove it.. nothing like shoving 40lbs worth of gear in a 10lb space 
Working on the pillars this weekend.. I have wrapped them 10 ways until sunday simply due to the fact that I want them to look a very certain way. Yep OCD.

I like the bullet proof baffle you built.. I can not imagine how much that whole setup weighs with the subs bolted down..

And I hear you on the power thing.. that's why you have a DD and then a "Project Car"


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> Much appreciated.. My goal was to end up with a show worthy install and still have a very usable trunk.. (and spare) but it was not an install for someone with big hands.. got the cuts to prove it.. nothing like shoving 40lbs worth of gear in a 10lb space
> Working on the pillars this weekend.. I have wrapped them 10 ways until sunday simply due to the fact that I want them to look a very certain way. Yep OCD.
> 
> I like the bullet proof baffle you built.. I can not imagine how much that whole setup weighs with the subs bolted down..
> ...


Ha! Yeah, my "project car" are my motorcycles...  Although I am keeping my eye out for a '47-'53 Chevy 5-window truck.  
0-60 in 2.7 takes BIG bucks in a car, not so much with a bike. Matter of fact, my bikes were only .2 off that when there were bone stock. When I need that rush, well... my DD is not my go-to... :laugh:











Weight of the baffle and subs might surprise you, it did me.

The AE subs are about the lightest 15's out there, coming in at 17lbs or so apiece. 80% of the baffle is birch, which is lighter than MDF.

That whole thing comes in at just under 50lbs. while still being very, very stout, and 2 15's worth of cone area!

I really am quite pleased with the whole IB thing. Not having trunk space is kinda what got me out of car audio in the first place 15 years ago. Looks like I'll be able to cram all of this stuff in the trunk without loosing much space at all, and keep my spare. Sounds like a win to me!

I'm not looking to have a show worthy install, just a clean, understated one. Although who knows, never say never, I always say...

Looking forward to seeing your pillars, take plenty of pics


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Time for some equipment porn!

Of course, we've already seen the (hacked-up) L1v2s...

So here are the L3SEs:




















...and the L8v1s that have never seen power. A big thanks to Dave Brooks, one hell of a nice guy, for the deal on these drivers... 











...and thanks to Erin (Bikinpunk) for the deal on the DSP-Z8...










10g speaker wire for the subs, and RCA's from KnuKonceptz...










...and the sub amp, the SSRef1.1000. We've seen the guts, here's the rest...










(2) 4g power/ground inputs:










Still need to purchase the (2) z-150.2's, a Z8-R remote for the DSP, a XS 4900D Battery, and more wire, fuses, and dblocks from Knu.


----------



## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

Love the talent man. Great work and like thunderplains said. You're down with OCD.


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Those mid range l3 are very cool.. There's just something about polished copper..


----------



## burakol (Apr 25, 2008)

Great build! I miss my e39... I had one not too long ago but had to part ways with it... it was a 98 non-vanos so I had less to worry about... nevertheless, I wouldn't have sold it if not for the need for a bigger car... the e39 was definitely the ultimate driving machine... either an e39 or an e30 for me if i was to buy again... good luck!


----------



## decibelle (Feb 17, 2011)

Nice work Tim! :thumbsup:

The work on your engine gives me hope for mine someday. Attention to detail is a great thing when it comes to cars and especially car audio. I look forward to hearing your car when it's all ready to demo!


----------



## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow, nice car and nice work man. That baffle is SOLID!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone! 

Any suggestions or otherwise, feel free to throw them out!




millerlyte said:


> Nice work Tim! :thumbsup:
> 
> The work on your engine gives me hope for mine someday. Attention to detail is a great thing when it comes to cars and especially car audio. I look forward to hearing your car when it's all ready to demo!


Me too!
...and I can't wait for your comments once you and your ultra sensitive hearing (relative to the rest of us, ) has that opportunity. :laugh:

In some ways, car audio is more difficult than other mechanical stuff on the car I'm finding, I'm sure you'll take to engine work like a duck to water once you actually dive in. A nice thing about engine work and the like, is that it's a little more cut and dry...right or wrong...it fits or it doesn't. Car audio can be rather nebulous by comparison.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> Those mid range l3 are very cool.. There's just something about polished copper..


I know what you mean!

Lookie at what I got to deal with that slowed me down a bit...

This is under my kitchen (120 y.o. house). Check out the ghetto plumbing...

That's copper, going into galvanized, going into CPVC. :veryangry:










Nice. The copper and galvanized connection corroded (shocking ) and sprung a bad leak. Had to shut the water off to the whole house until I could sweat in some ball valves, and cut off the kitchen plumbing from the rest of the house. Then I had to dig a 10' trench from the side under the house to get to the leak. The craw space was too tight to access the normal way. I'll be moving the kitchen sink later this year, so I left a little CPVC that's in the wall that goes to the sink, and replaced everything with, you guessed it... lovely copper!










Oh, the joys of home ownership. I honestly could not imagine what that would have set me back had I called a plumber. The would have torn up my kitchen floor too. :thumbsdown:


----------



## decibelle (Feb 17, 2011)

EditTim said:


> A nice thing about engine work and the like, is that it's a little more cut and dry...right or wrong...it fits or it doesn't. Car audio can be rather nebulous by comparison.


That's a good way of putting it. But at least with car audio there's room to improvise. 

Maybe I will have to seek your advice when I start rebuilding my car. Seeing you do all the work yourself is highly motivating.


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

EditTim said:


> I know what you mean!
> 
> Lookie at what I got to deal with that slowed me down a bit...
> 
> ...


Man I feel your pain.. If you look back in my build thread, I had the wonderful fortune of having my water heater go.. And I redid the copper in the entire furnace area.. And that crap is NOT cheap.. 

The house I sold back last year in CT was 60 years old and got the nick name by family (thanks to the previous owner) "the house that duck tape and bailing wire built" the guys cut so many corners and did so much with his superior talents, I was surprised the house did not burn down.. It took me an entire week to map the wiring in the house. And the plumbing? Not as bad as yours, but a close second.. 

In Colorado Springs, if you lived in a house that was 120 yrs old, it would be one of the houses from the original settlement..


----------



## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

If that's the supply side what does the drain look like? 
I see scabbed in floor joists too.....

You've had all sorts of fun with this house I bet! 

If your general contracting skills are on par with your car install skills I'm sure all of your repairs will be just fine.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

millerlyte said:


> That's a good way of putting it. But at least with car audio there's room to improvise.
> 
> Maybe I will have to seek your advice when I start rebuilding my car. Seeing you do all the work yourself is highly motivating.


Anytime! It can be difficult and tricky at times, but it's not brain surgery. I actually love doing that stuff, despite my being a "creative" more than a tech-type. Next up mechanically for me is replacing most of my rear suspension, and replacing seals in my LS differential.

Oh, and replacing most of my interior with M5 stuff (seats, headliner (Alcantara), pillars, leather dash, etc.), although that's almost more related to car audio, lol.



Thunderplains said:


> Man I feel your pain.. If you look back in my build thread, I had the wonderful fortune of having my water heater go.. And I redid the copper in the entire furnace area.. And that crap is NOT cheap..
> 
> The house I sold back last year in CT was 60 years old and got the nick name by family (thanks to the previous owner) "the house that duck tape and bailing wire built" the guys cut so many corners and did so much with his superior talents, I was surprised the house did not burn down.. It took me an entire week to map the wiring in the house. And the plumbing? Not as bad as yours, but a close second..
> 
> In Colorado Springs, if you lived in a house that was 120 yrs old, it would be one of the houses from the original settlement..


Hilarious! You have to have a sense of humor with this kind of stuff. I'll have to remember that nick name. My house kind of fits that description, although it was built VERY well back in the 1890's, with great building supplies (old-growth, long-leafed pine (heart of pine)), solid wood doors, etc. It's just the many owners over the years that applied their brilliance to "repairs" and "upgrades" that really makes thing tough... 

I did see your hot water heater debacle in your build thread the other day, and had to laugh since I was dealing with a similar issue, at practically the same time. Ah, no... the copper plumbing is NOT cheap. The damn 3/4" copper ball valves were $13/each, and double what those crappy gate valves were. $18 for a 10' run of pipe... yeah, that adds up fast. I was shocked to see how much solder is these days... 



Notloudenuf said:


> If that's the supply side what does the drain look like?
> I see scabbed in floor joists too.....
> 
> You've had all sorts of fun with this house I bet!
> ...


Hehe, you know it man, and thanks! Believe it or not, my kitchen floor is flat and stable. There's a fair amount of additional support that isn't seen in the pics, although that contributed to the difficulty of getting to the problem area. I learned a LONG time ago, that if you want something done right, especially here in the South, you better be prepared to do it yourself!


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

EditTim said:


> The damn 3/4" copper ball valves were $13/each, and double what those crappy gate valves were. $18 for a 10' run of pipe...


I *WISH* I was using 3/4.. Everything that runs into the house is 1".. $38 for a 10' run from HD.. never mind the valves..


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> I *WISH* I was using 3/4.. Everything that runs into the house is 1".. $38 for a 10' run from HD.. never mind the valves..


Yikes! I didn't even look at the 1" stuff. The main coming to the house is 1", but is stepped down to 3/4" before it branches off.

That said, the plumbing is still a mess, I just did a repair. That before pic is only one example of the craziness that that goes on in the plumbing.

For example, my main supply (1") comes from the front, from the street. It enters my crawl space, PASSES the hot water heater at the front of the house, and continues until the back of the house, where it curves toward the side of the house, LEAVES the crawl space like it's going to the neighbors house, and goes underground.
After digging to see where that went, I found another galvanized-copper corrosion related leak that had probably been going on for a while. The main tied into a (galvanized) supply that ran along the outside of the house, underground, until it hit a Tee connection, and then goes all the way back to the front of the house where the hot water heater is and (finally) supplies _it_. Then it Y's and heads to the _back_ of the house again, all the while utilizing every material that's ever been used for plumbing in the last 100 years, going every which way, crossing over each other, etc...

It is biggest f&%king mess I've EVER seen plumbing-wise, and I can't wait to redo ALL of it!


----------



## strakele (Mar 2, 2009)

Lookin' good Tim! Great start so far. Hope you can get it done before we leave Atlanta - I'd love to hear it.


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

looks great Tim. Love the car  

Question about the IB Subs... having more 60% of the cone area firing into a wall (only 1 inch away from the cone), and then needing to exit throgh the small skipass... isn't that going to cause some issues? I don't know much about IB, but just conceptually thinking, if you don't give them enough room to breathe they'd have to sound different. I'm not sure of course, but I'm just wondering if you've thought about it?


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Thanks D, means a lot coming from a local guy like yourself. Got a ways to go before my system sounds as sweet as yours though... [/QUOTE]


^^


I'm sure it will be great when you are done. Looking forward to hearing this when you are done. :thumbsup:


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

strakele said:


> Lookin' good Tim! Great start so far. Hope you can get it done before we leave Atlanta - I'd love to hear it.


You and me both... you're talking summer aren't you? Hopefully it will be done by then...




mattyjman said:


> looks great Tim. Love the car
> 
> Question about the IB Subs... having more 60% of the cone area firing into a wall (only 1 inch away from the cone), and then needing to exit throgh the small skipass... isn't that going to cause some issues? I don't know much about IB, but just conceptually thinking, if you don't give them enough room to breathe they'd have to sound different. I'm not sure of course, but I'm just wondering if you've thought about it?


Thanks!

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about what you bring up.
Pressure differences across the cone, specifically

Fortunately, the way I put it together, it wouldn't take much to make a couple more "spacer" layers (or however many are necessary) to correct any issues that may arise. Although if it looks like there _will_ be a problem, I'll change it before the subs see power.

I'd love to hear more opinions about this.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

wdemetrius1 said:


> EditTim said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks D, means a lot coming from a local guy like yourself. Got a ways to go before my system sounds as sweet as yours though...
> ...


Yeah, hopefully sooner than later. I'd didn't get enough seat time in your ride at the g2g by the way, we'll have to fix that...


----------



## win1 (Sep 27, 2008)

sub'd


----------



## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

whoa, this is like "a no way! I want that too" thread.

e39 BM, check
rare old school HU, check
HATs, check
Zapco, check
AE IB subs, check
SS, check...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

EditTim said:


> mattyjman said:
> 
> 
> > looks great Tim. Love the car
> ...


Well, I shot an email over to John from AE, and he responded quickly:

_Hi Tim,

That will put some additional resistance on the woofers. What you are really doing is making a 4th order bandpass cabinet where the trunk is the sealed enclosure, the space in front is the front chamber, and the pass through is functioning as the port. This will happen to some extent no matter how much space you have there. Getting it closer will add some additional resistance to the woofers and lower output. It shouldn't really hurt anything but moving it back 2-3" should help get a little more output. You would really have to measure the frequency response though to see what the pass through is doing and how it is functioning as a port.

Best regards,
John_

I just got this, so I haven't fully processed this yet, but I do find this very interesting.

I've got plenty of power going to the subs, output really isn't a concern for me, but still.

Opinions? Two cents anyone? Will this be more of a tuning issue? Not sure what to make of it at the moment...


----------



## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Great build project....I love those cars too, my youngest brother has a '99 or 2000 540i auto with 150k and it runs really good. He's fixing to either spend some money going NA or do an LSx swap this spring....


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

EditTim said:


> Well, I shot an email over to John from AE, and he responded quickly:
> 
> _Hi Tim,
> 
> ...


yeah, that's what i thought... well not as clearly, but i was thinking it, he said it  ...

so, 4th order bandpass isn't bad, if that's what you are going for and it's properly tuned. however, that's NOT what you are going for, nor do you have any way to tune it (port length, sealed enclosure volume, etc.) I'd move the baffle back some as John suggests, and then find a way to open up the back a bit more. I'd rather spend the time doing it right, than not be happy at the end of it all.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> yeah, that's what i thought... well not as clearly, but i was thinking it, he said it  ...
> 
> so, 4th order bandpass isn't bad, if that's what you are going for and it's properly tuned. however, that's NOT what you are going for, nor do you have any way to tune it (port length, sealed enclosure volume, etc.) I'd move the baffle back some as John suggests, and then find a way to open up the back a bit more. I'd rather spend the time doing it right, than not be happy at the end of it all.


I will say this, I made sure that when I installed the subs and baffle unit, that it all could easily come out easily if changes needed to be made. No expanding foam or anything like that... 

As far as keeping it 4th order, yes, not much way to tune it besides making the ski-pass opening smaller...

As much as I would like to finish this project, I'm not without tunes now in the car, so taking the time to do it right is exactly what I'm _trying_ to do...

Hmmmm, what about opening up the "ski-pass" to be a much larger opening, like the fold-down seats option (it was an option on my car), and similarly open up first layer/back board, keeping it only as a spacer?

This way the subs would be firing into the actual seat back, with the "ski-pass" opening still open between the seats.

Thoughts?


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

Opening the ski pass further will more likely introduce rattles and squeaks as that main sheet will loose more structural integrity. Just a guess though


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I know you don't want to hear this, but my first thought was "I'd put those speakers as close together as possible...."

But DAMN what a great build! I'm a tweeter trimming fool myself... brand new tweets, meet dremel.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Jfreak said:


> Opening the ski pass further will more likely introduce rattles and squeaks as that main sheet will loose more structural integrity. Just a guess though


Well, I'm not concerned about that for this discussion. I'll cross that bridge if that's what I decide to do. I can always add structural reinforcement, etc. Where there's a will...  _Your_ e39 has fold-down seats, what kind of reinforcements did BMW do beyond the sheet metal?

Now, it would be a relatively simple thing to open up the sheet metal to at least the diagonal structural areas, easily seen in this mock up in PS of the sub baffle over-layed over the sheet metal.













chad said:


> I know you don't want to hear this, but my first thought was "I'd put those speakers as close together as possible...."


Which ones, the subs? Not quite sure what you mean...


chad said:


> But DAMN what a great build! I'm a tweeter trimming fool myself... brand new tweets, meet dremel.


Ha! Thanks man. My poor dremel just went out on me last night after years of trusty service though


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

It's double walled all along the opening behind the seat. I'd say try it the way it is, it's easier to remove metal than put it back.


----------



## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

> Now, it would be a relatively simple thing to open up the sheet metal to at least the diagonal structural areas, easily seen in this mock up in PS of the sub baffle over-layed over the sheet metal


Ding ding ding!
This has my vote


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Jfreak said:


> It's double walled all along the opening behind the seat. I'd say try it the way it is, it's easier to remove metal than put it back.


True enough, thanks.



danno14 said:


> Ding ding ding!
> This has my vote


Ha! Yeah, I thought _you_ might like the idea... wasn't it yours?


----------



## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

EditTim said:


> True enough, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! Yeah, I thought _you_ might like the idea... wasn't it yours?


Well, as with many other things > with free advice, you get what you pay for; and I will only take credit for what works 

Also, having the utmost respect for jfreak's skills, he's right about taking vs. putting back. Give a try and see what it's doing. Then whip out the plasma cutter !

Yours is a much nicer setup than what I plopped in my kids e39. But it makes her happy


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Tim, what if you concave the subs, so that each sub is firing directly at the pass thru? Follow me?


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> Tim, what if you concave the subs, so that each sub is firing directly at the pass thru? Follow me?


It's a HUGE pain.. Ask me how I know....


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

danno14 said:


> ...Also, having the utmost respect for jfreak's skills, he's right about taking vs. putting back. Give a try and see what it's doing. Then whip out the plasma cutter !


I've really been thinking about this, and in all likelihood, I am going to cut open both the back board (layer 1), and the sheet metal, back to the stamped diagonal reinforcements. This will make a fairly big difference in the amount of pressure pushing back against the cones. The sheet metal there isn't really load bearing or anything, the stamped reinforced areas will remain, and the baffle will stiffen up the sheet metal anyway. I could always weld metal back in if something weird happened because of it, but I honestly can't imagine what that would be.



Thunderplains said:


> Tim, what if you concave the subs, so that each sub is firing directly at the pass thru? Follow me?


Thought about about it, but...



Jfreak said:


> It's a HUGE pain.. Ask me how I know....


:laugh: Yeah, that's _exactly_ what I was thinking.


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

EditTim said:


> The sheet metal there isn't really load bearing or anything, the stamped reinforced areas will remain


From a body perspective, if you think about it, it is the sheet metal that sits between the strut towers in the rear. If I was going to remove a good area of sheet metal between the rear wells, I would add steel roll stock welded to the left right towers up top. Just a .02


----------



## boltcd (Sep 26, 2011)

Cutting metal out from the back seats on a e39 is fine, many came with fold down rear seats and have not bracing there there. The shock towers are mounted way up in the top of the rear deck and are braced right at the back of the seat on the top of the trunk, where the height of the trunk is only about 16 inches not like 18 inches everywhere else.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thunderplains said:


> From a body perspective, if you think about it, it is the sheet metal that sits between the strut towers in the rear. If I was going to remove a good area of sheet metal between the rear wells, I would add steel roll stock welded to the left right towers up top. Just a .02


I have been think about it from that perspective. I tend to OVER-think most of this stuff... 

The sheet metal there is all of 1/32" thick, single sheet, and sits at a 27° angle. Not the most robust method of boxing that area up for stiffness. BMW tends to (not always) over-build, so if this was an area that contributed greatly to overall chassis stiffness, I would think it would be much stronger through there. There is a double-walled metal section that goes across the top that joins the strut towers for instance, as seen below.

The section I'm talking about cutting out is in outlined in red. Note that it's thin sheet metal there, and does not include the stamped reinforced portion. The top and bottom area remain as well, with the baffle itself stiffening up the whole area.










I did look up the possibility of using a rear strut brace, since Dinan actually makes one. The guys on the M5 board seem to think this piece is largely cosmetic though. A guy who had front and rear strut braces installed by Dinan had this to say,
"... In talking with Jeff at dinan, i asked if the rear brace would make any difference. He said i would not feel any difference in stiffness with the rear brace, and only a slight difference with the front one. He said they were more of a preventative piece, reducing chassis flex and fatigue... For a track driven M5, it's probably worth having the braces."

Here's a pic:










My baffle and subs are _probably_ in the way... if I actually wanted to use one.

I don't track my car, I use motorcycles for that, so my car isn't exactly abused and push to the limits, _at all_. No quick back and forth through chicanes or anything like that. It's a daily driver only.

My last thought on this, is that the sub baffle unit DOES contribute a fair amount of stiffness to the sheet metal, especially since it is 4" thick, weighs almost 50lbs, and is bolted to the sheet metal in many places all the way around. Once I cut the sheet metal again, I will be bolting the baffle all along the stamped reinforced sections, creating what I _believe_ will be a stronger "firewall" than what was there before.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Alrighty, I managed to some progress this week. Small progress, but progress nevertheless...

It took me a bit to figure out the best way to mount the sub amp. The suitable places to use as mounting points are rather difficult to get to, and/or impossible to get to once the amp is in place. So, this required a bit of creativity to get the amp mounted. At the end of the day, the mounting looks rather simple, and I'm quite pleased with the result.

First, I bought some angle aluminum stock from Home Depot, 1/8" thick, and about 1" wide. The 1" width needed to be trimmed on one side where the amp attaches, so the amp doesn't sit higher, not that there's room for it anyway. My dremel crapped out on me, so the air-powered rotary tool came to the rescue. I don't have the best shop for doing this stuff as one can see in the pic, lol...










Here is that bracket installed. Hard to see, but it's backed with 1/8" CCF, and a rubber washer for each fastener. Speaking of fasteners, I had to use the oem plastic fasteners since the threads were very course and a standard M5 or M6 nut would not work. I may change the black ones out for the uncolored ones, whichever looks better...










The one good place up top to mount the amp is kinda hard to get to, so I rigged up a bracket using:

(1) 3/8"-16 x 5" Hex bolt (will be changed to a yellow zinc coated bolt from Fastenal)
(1) 1 1/2" long piece of flat 1/8" x 3/4" aluminum stock (Home Depot)
(1) 4" long piece of round aluminum stock (Home Depot) used as a spacer
(4) 3/8" rubber clad washers for sandwiching metal
(1) 3/8" lock-nut










...and mounted it. I had to open up the hole a bit to accept the 3/8" bolt, but not much at all once the plastic piece was removed. All I'm trying to do here is limit/prevent lateral movement, and this will definitely to it.










The cool thing here, is the flat aluminum tab can rotate out of the way, when placing the amp in place, since the rubber washers allow it despite the bolt and lock nut having been tightened already. Good thing too, since the amp's presence blocks access to the lock nut.

And here is the test fit before wiring:











It BARELY fits. A 1/4" longer and it wouldn't have, whew!

I'm using brass mounting hardware to tie into the gold plated stuff in the amp itself.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Speaking of wiring, lookie what the postman brought me today!










This 1/0 Fleks Kable is nice stuff!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

After thinking, thinking, and thinking some more, time to get this party started...










No turning back now... good thing none of this will be seen. 










and done with cutting sheet metal.

From the back seats, with edge moldling adding:










Now I need to work on modding the baffle's first layer. The subs should have a lot more room to breathe now. They get an extra couple of inches, and fire more into the seat foam (and cabin), not so much firing into the first layer of wood. So back pressure on the subs will be greatly reduced.










I'll be tackling the baffle tomorrow, time to stop and meet friends for dinner. Good thing the weather is much nicer now, I can leave the car and take the bike!


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

that's a good looking whole right there, Tim !! I think you'll be happy with your choice to open it up...


----------



## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

Now that took some BALLS! kudos


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

SO far so good.. Hey Tim, behind your amp, is that the trunk vent? If so and all depending on how it is covered on the other side, might want to fab some sort of vent opening (like a dryer duct) to cover it.. just in case any crap can jump thru and hit the amp.. (mud, water, small furry animals)


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> that's a good looking whole right there, Tim !! I think you'll be happy with your choice to open it up...


Thanks man, I think you're right, I'm already feeling better about it... 



oilman said:


> Now that took some BALLS! kudos


You're too kind... :laugh:




Thunderplains said:


> SO far so good.. Hey Tim, behind your amp, is that the trunk vent? If so and all depending on how it is covered on the other side, might want to fab some sort of vent opening (like a dryer duct) to cover it.. just in case any crap can jump thru and hit the amp.. (mud, water, small furry animals)


Yes, that is indeed the right-side trunk vent. I have no worries there...

BMW put the factory amp there, so they kept in mind when designing this stuff.
The vent opening is covered by a plastic grid bolted to the sheet metal, with grid openings about 20mm square
In front of each row of the grid, is a rubber flap that only pushes out, like a one-way valve. So air can get out, but debris and whatnot can't get in.
The oem amp bracket I pulled out looked brand new after sitting there for the last 12 years, despite living here in rainy Georgia, driving through occasional flooded streets and the like. So it looks like the vent works as designed, and I have no plans to do anything to it.

Thanks for bring it up!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

I did manage to mod the first layer of the sub baffle today, and re-painted it. It was a little tricky because the first layer was glued and screwed to the second layer already, but I was able to use the router to get it done. Pics once the paint is all dry, tomorrow.

While I had the router and circle jig out, I went ahead and knocked out some baffle rings in 1/2" MDF for the L3s. The Jasper jig worked like a champ...


----------



## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

sweet. Good choice opening that up.


----------



## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

OMG! You cut it out! We're all going to die!!!!





That's the one thing we cannot get out of


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Let's ride this weekend for a few - I'll show you how fast my Harley is (not).  Can't wait to hear this when it's done!! Do you still need those fuses? Text me w/the right ones so I don't actually forget.


----------



## req (Aug 4, 2007)

haha, reading the thread i was hoping you were going to cut the hole bigger 

nice.


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

The rings look killer Tim. Are they recessed as well? Guess they don't have to be since you're doing pods


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

darrenforeal said:


> sweet. Good choice opening that up.


 Thanks!



danno14 said:


> OMG! You cut it out! We're all going to die!!!!
> 
> That's the one thing we cannot get out of


Hmmm, seems like there's something else too... oh yeah, _taxes_, which reminds me... 



sirbOOm said:


> Let's ride this weekend for a few - I'll show you how fast my Harley is (not).  Can't wait to hear this when it's done!! Do you still need those fuses? Text me w/the right ones so I don't actually forget.


Sounds like a plan! I'll hit you up in a couple days...



req said:


> haha, reading the thread i was hoping you were going to cut the hole bigger
> 
> nice.


Nope. :laugh:



Jfreak said:


> The rings look killer Tim. Are they recessed as well? Guess they don't have to be since you're doing pods


Thanks, Josh! I'm real happy with how they came out considering they are so small. I thought the extra room that the terminals need would be tricky, but it wasn't at all.

No, these are not recessed. I'll be using part of a ABS plastic pipe that the baffles fit into to create the recess (for the press-fit grills I plan to make) before glassing them up in the pillars. Once I get done with the sub baffle, I'll get started on the pillars proper...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Alrighty...

Baffle before:










Baffle after:










With the subs installed:










The gaps in places were more challenging this way, but I had just enough butyl rubber (both cheap Amazon stuff, and much nicer SDS butyl rope) to seal up the baffle completely. The subs have a lot more room now to breathe. Yay.










Finally, with the back seat installed. Here's looking through the ski-pass.
I'll worry about speaker cloth at the end of the install.


----------



## dvsntt (Nov 17, 2009)

This build is amazing. The engine work too is superb, as well as your ingenuity and attitude. And I love that car. I'd have to say you are building the real "ultimate" driving machine. I'm watching this thread with great interest.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

dvsntt said:


> This build is amazing. The engine work too is superb, as well as your ingenuity and attitude. And I love that car. I'd have to say you are building the real "ultimate" driving machine. I'm watching this thread with great interest.


Thanks for the props! 

It's the first time I've ever posted any work-in-progress on an online forum. I gotta say, it's an interesting experience, like a whole lot of people looking over your shoulder . Not for everyone, but I'm finding it invaluable. 


Today I have to take care of a couple non-audio related things.

My key remote has been super flaky lately, and I think the rechargeable battery is about dead. It's driving me nuts. What, _manually_ unlock your door? Oh, the horror. Such a first world problem... 

Not interested is spending $$$ on a new key (I still need a couple amps after all!), I attempt to change out the rechargeable battery. It recharges by induction (like a cordless toothbrush), but I suppose I use the key a lot pushing buttons, while not having long commutes where the lithium ion battery get fully charged.

The patient, an OEM master key:










After stabbing myself pretty good with a knife to get the case cracked open, we find this, lot's going on on the little PCB:


















So I order up a replacement battery from Mouser, who stock the same Panasonic VL2020 lithium ion (rechargeable) for $4.

Problem though, the new battery has the (+) and (-) pins at 12 and 6 o'clock, whereas the stock battery has those terminals at 12 and 3 o'clock.










Not a big deal, I pried off the (-) terminal off the old battery (easier said than done), and re-soldered it back on the PCB:











after clipping off the (-) pin of the new battery, I soldered it on the PCB (the (+) pin). After closing the key back up, the (-) will make good contact.


























All done. Works like a champ now! The excess Goop just rubs off before it's fully cured. Saved replacing the whole key, which doesn't come cheap. This is a DIY forum after all.











Now I'm gonna tackle a pesky leaky power steering banjo bolt/crush washers. Good times!


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

DIY all the way man.. Who says it is just for audio..


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, time to tackle these things... the a-pillars. :blush:

So far I've just stripped off the oem grey material. I have another set of pillars coming in, so I'm not too concerned if I botch these up. These will be covered in Alcantara once I'm done glassin' up the pods. 

I've decided to disable the airbags in the pillars so they won't fling a speaker at me in case of a crash, and to create a little more room in the pillar for the L3se's to breathe, besides venting under the dash.
Looks like a 3 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor will do the trick in lieu of the airbag itself. Pics once I undertake that process.










In case anyone was wondering, those are the original floors in my 120 y.o. house.


----------



## MinnesotaStateUniversity (Sep 12, 2012)

"The only weakness of a DIY'er is the infinite number of ways to do anything"

Love it!


----------



## raresvintea (Sep 17, 2010)

You sacrify your safetly for a speaker? Commmonnn.... i would put speaker in the dash or in another place. In my car A-pillar is kept by a rope from metal.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

There is NOTHING wrong with putting a speaker in the a-pillar. It is not dangerous.


----------



## Stück (Jul 3, 2011)

Having seen over a hundred E39 with deployed roof bags at work (salvage yard) I can tell you there is no reason to disable them. Nothing happens at the base of the A-Pillar. The bag starts about 3/4 of the way up.


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Stück said:


> Having seen over a hundred E39 with deployed roof bags at work (salvage yard) I can tell you there is no reason to disable them. Nothing happens at the base of the A-Pillar. The bag starts about 3/4 of the way up.


Agreed. Same with Toyota. airbag deploys in the top 5 inch of the pillar and the pillars have blow out hooks (so they dont fly off the metal pillar) No worry man.. Annnnd.. if you DO ever get into a side impact accident and the inspectors for the ins find out you disbaled them, might not be good news for you.. Insurance companies will do everything in their power not to pay a dime..

Outside of that.. good work so far.. I am working on the pillars this weekend.. The weather has been nuts.. This week we had 70 deg days, followed by a blizzard, followed by a snail storm (colorado term - snow hail)
back to 65-70 today and tomorrow only to be back in blizzard by tuesday..


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Stück said:


> Having seen over a hundred E39 with deployed roof bags at work (salvage yard) I can tell you there is no reason to disable them. Nothing happens at the base of the A-Pillar. The bag starts about 3/4 of the way up.


What makes you think they're disabled? The side curtain airbags fire DOWN. You are in NO danger in an accident. I've seen cars after accidents with pods and they were fine. I've BEEN IN cars that had pods and side airbags deploy in an accident and it was not an issue.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Stück said:


> ... The bag starts about 3/4 of the way up.


I wish this was the case. Here's my car:










The early e39's didn't have anything in the a-pillars.
These are the tube style.
Later cars abandoned this design and went to the curtain style.

In another thread, an e39 owner saw a video (super slo-mo from NHTSA iirc) of the HPS airbag deploying, and mentioned that seeing this made him disable the airbag for fear of a deployment turning the speaker into a projectile. I haven't seen it, the video was pulled from YouTube.

Another e39 owner left the airbags alone and installed pillar pods. When the car was totaled later, the HPS bags didn't deploy, iirc.

Honestly, I'd rather not bother with them, but I'd like to claim the spot they occupy to tuck the L3's in as much as I can. They will be on-axis.













Thunderplains said:


> ...if you DO ever get into a side impact accident and the inspectors for the ins find out you disabled them, might not be good news for you... Insurance companies will do everything in their power not to pay a dime...


Now this is an excellent point. Although my experience with my ins company hasn't been like that _at all_ (Geico). You'd be surprised how they've handled claims for me in the past. Example... they called _me_ to tell me I could make another claim and _receive a lot more money from THEM_. They did not have to do that, and I never would have known. This is not the only time they've been beyond ethical with me. I'll never use another insurance company, YMMV...




In the end, life is all about choices. We take risks all the time whether we realize it or not. For me, it's a matter of minimizing risks where I can, but not to the point where don't do anything dangerous. I mean, I've ridden motorcycles my whole life, rock climbed, jumped out of planes, surfed big waves, etc... I don't drive like I used to, and I don't put many miles on my car either. All city driving for the most part, no high speed stuff. In the grand scheme of things, this issue is a minor one.

The early e39s w/o the HPS bags are very safe cars, and I've never seen anyone insist that they aren't because they lack this feature.

Incidentally, I don't take this subject lightly, not even a little bit. I was in a major wreck 20 years ago where I rolled a '90 Eclipse probably doing over 100mph. No airbags in the car. I broke my neck in four places (C5-6) due to compression from the roof. HPS would not have helped in this case. Had I had a passenger, I don't know if they would have made it, IMHO. :blush:


























...and YES, I ride motorcycles, do track days, surf, snowboard, etc. to this day. Life is for livin'! 




Thunderplains said:


> Outside of that.. good work so far.. I am working on the pillars this weekend.. The weather has been nuts.. This week we had 70 deg days, followed by a blizzard, followed by a snail storm (colorado term - snow hail)
> back to 65-70 today and tomorrow only to be back in blizzard by tuesday..


Can you say climate change? My sympathies, yikes!

I'm soooo not a cold weather guy. I don't know how you all do it. 







I haven't made a final decision about this, BTW...


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The bag is the part a little over half way up. The rest is the igniter and wiring. It's not doing to move. And again, when the bag fires it will come straight down, not towards the dash and not towards the steering wheel. It's to keep you from hitting the glass in a side impact. 

It'll be fine. I promise.

Edit: it seems like you think we're advocating the disabling the airbags. We are not. We're saying the pods will in no way interfere with the proper function of the airbags.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> The bag is the part a little over half way up. The rest is the igniter and wiring. It's not doing to move. And again, when the bag fires it will come straight down, not towards the dash and not towards the steering wheel. It's to keep you from hitting the glass in a side impact.
> 
> It'll be fine. I promise.
> 
> Edit: it seems like you think we're advocating the disabling the airbags. We are not. We're saying the pods will in no way interfere with the proper function of the airbags.


No, I don't think you're advocating disabling the HPS bags, I understand exactly what you're getting at.

I was just at the car checking this out again.

FWIW, we're only talking about the driver's side, since the passenger side pod will be facing me on-axis, the bottom part of the bag assembly is not in the way, so the passenger side HPS will remain intact no matter what I decide on the driver's side.

I believe you in regards to the bottom part being just the igniter and wiring. At this point, I just wish _that_ part could at least compress a bit more so my pod doesn't stick out so much, since it will be directly on-axis, pointing at my left ear.

For now, I'm going to try to work around the HPS bag. I know it will work, I guess I'll just have to suck it up and deal with the pod not being as far right and integrated as I'd like. Not a deal breaker, I'll get over it.

This is _exactly_ the reason why I'm going into great detail on this work-in-progress, rather than simply posting a "look at my finished work" thread. This is a learning experience for me, I will _never_ say that I know THE right way to do anything.

Thanks for the comments everyone, they are all very much appreciated. Keep the constructive criticisms coming!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well,

Looks like I'm going to try out something along these lines for the driver's side. Directly on axis, about the same plane as the L1 hiding in the oem spot. HPS unmolested... 










Time to grab the dremel. Had to replace my last one due to it going out on me, but took the opportunity to step up a model to the 4000 series. I used the last one _a lot_.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

The pod will be off the dash a bit, not resting on it like it is here.










and from the back side, other baffle ring used for propping up the wip pod...


----------



## The Performer (Aug 12, 2012)

EditTim said:


> The pod will be off the dash a bit, not resting on it like it is here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you use pvc to make the white inset trim?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

The Performer said:


> Did you use pvc to make the white inset trim?


No, I used 4" plastic pipe reducers from Home Depot. They were found where dryer duct-work, foil tape, and toilet hardware are located, not in the plumbing section. They fit around the L3s nicely with 1/8" to spare. Cut it with the dremel. They are thinner walled than the pvc pipe, which didn't fit these drivers due to the added thickness.

I'll post up more in-detail pics once I settle on how I'm finishing them.

I do believe these are them:

Deflect-o Duct Increaser/Reducer-IRB43 at The Home Depot


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

More pics of the 1/2" mdf baffle & 4" plastic reducer.

I'm waiting on some small #4-40 Tee nuts and #4-40 black oxide machine screws from McMaster-Carr before I can go too much further and start gluing support dowels to the unit and secure it to the pillar.

I'm still going to whittle away a little bit of the baffle to really give the L3s a chance to breathe. The MDF is only 1/2", so I won't need much material removed at all.

I like the thin profile of the abs plastic while staying very stiff and strong. Nice and smooth, and perfectly round.


----------



## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Holy **** dude, you're one lucky guy! That roll-over was gnarly!
Nice progress on the install


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sinister-kustoms said:


> Holy **** dude, you're one lucky guy! That roll-over was gnarly!
> Nice progress on the install


Yeah, docs weren't exactly sure why I (eventually) was able to walk out of there. :blush:

AnyHoo...

Today I did get a chance to drill and chamfer the L3 baffles. Not that the L3s _needed_ this much material removed, I'm happy with how they came out, and the L3s will have no problem breathing.



















Next will be installing the aforementioned Tee nuts (once they arrive) and securing them to the pillars before glassing.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, I just can't leave well enough alone.

After permanently affixing the two pieces together with CA glue (love this stuff), the baffle felt so stiff and strong, that I went ahead and chamfered them a bit more. OCD at work... 





















That should do it!


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, if they were choking before, they aren't going to run out of breath now 

we all have OCD I think... we just call it different things.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> well, if they were choking before, they aren't going to run out of breath now
> 
> we all have OCD I think... we just call it different things.


Yeah, I've been _trying_ to avoid that can of worms you seem comfortable with... horns. (Don't over-think this Tim, baby steps...) :laugh:


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Not much, but a little progress. I was hit with a bunch of (paying) work, which is a good thing considering how much this install is costing me...

So, I received the little #4 sized Tee nuts and #4 black torx screws from McMaster, and proceeded to install them with my new best friend, CA glue. Continued work will have to wait on the pillars until I'm done with work projects, likely next week sometime. I can put plenty of torque on these things, and the torx head makes it a _little_ tougher to do a smash and grab, _maybe_.










I made further progress on the sub amp.

First I techflexed and heat-shrinked the speaker wire, and power wires...










No hot knife in my possession, so an exacto & fire did the trick nicely...



















Knu's "speaker pants" :laugh:










I started working on a bracket for a distro block for the sub amp. The SS Ref1.1000 has two sets of 4g power/gnd inputs, so the d-block is just for breaking up the 1/0 into (2) 4g.

More flat 1/8" aluminum for the bracket fabrication.




























and done. Well, almost... still have to connect the remote wires (the thin blue wires coiled-up in the pic):










I'm really happy with how the bracket came out, and it's fitting with my clean, simple lines motif.

Next up will be more work on the pillars with my first foray in 'glassing...


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks great Tim! Very clean


----------



## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

turned it around so the folks can have a look at this awesome piece of work!! 

Such great and well executed build!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Hardly any time to do audio stuff, but...

Look what came, yay!












And I did finally get started on some fiber-glassing.

Keep in mind, this is the first time I've ever attempted such a thing, so be kind 

Slow and steady is the rule here. I'm actually doing only one pillar at a time, so I can develop these skills on a smaller scale. The drivers are not going to be symmetrical, so no worries about the pods not matching by doing them one at a time. Plus, having the driver's side finished first will enable me to better position the passenger's side pod visually, that's my theory anyway.

I'm using materials from US Composites, both chop mat and Knytex with the epoxy resin is what I'm using. No Poly fumes here.

I wanted to glue the baffle ring to the pillar while in the car, but the airbag tube puffs out and is in the way for how I want to mount it. So, I fiber-glassed a concave section in the hole I made, with the hope that this would push the airbag out of the way where I could glue my baffle ring.

I used foil tape, a la Steve Cook, to form my shape, and then laid several layers of Knytex and resin over the tape. The tape method worked great as the cloth simply sticks to it and holds in place while you add the first bit of resin. No sliding around, nice. The tape pulls off without too much difficulty when cured.



















After a very quick sanding, the pillar is put back in place, and indeed, the airbag is no longer in the way in order to CA glue my baffle in place:



















Here I go ahead and tape up my shape for the pod. I opened up the hole in the pillar a bit more, so the plastic sawdust adhered to the tape I just put down, oh well... 




























After an initial cure, I pulled the tape from the underneath, and laid a couple more layers there.










Curing...



















Tape pulled off, quick light sanding, and driver test fitted:



















Time to finish up with a couple layers over the top of the shape to integrate the baffle ring a little more, and provide a bit more strength, followed by a thin layer of Rage gold filler to smooth everything out. This is where I'm at right now:












By all means, I'd love to hear some comments, it's the only way I'm going to learn...


----------



## roduk (Sep 19, 2008)

That pods going to be a lovely shape when it's finished!! Really nice work, I love Scotts drivers and what your doing with them is very cool... They do need a lot of smooth airflow behind them and reflection free, so get them well damped inside


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

roduk said:


> That pods going to be a lovely shape when it's finished!! Really nice work, I love Scotts drivers and what your doing with them is very cool... They do need a lot of smooth airflow behind them and reflection free, so get them well damped inside


Thanks! And thanks for bringing up the inside airflow topic, I've been debating how I should finish the insides. I've been thinking either CCF or non-hardening clay (duct seal), both of which I have. Maybe some polyfill as well...

Thoughts?


----------



## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

well done. You're going to be a very happy camper when this is dialed in and tuned.

Regarding air flow and resonances. May want to use some open cell foam on things and "black hole stuff" instead of polyfill.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

darrenforeal said:


> Regarding air flow and resonances. May want to use some open cell foam on things and "black hole stuff" instead of polyfill.


Hmmm, I think I may just use the duct seal, a non-hardening clay-like product that has sound deadening properties and some weight to it, to line the inside of the pods, with some open cell foam up in the pillar space that isn't taken up by the airbag.

Here's the pod freshly glassed up from the outside, curing, further bringing the pod close to the final shape. Sanding, rage gold, sanding, and more sanding is next.


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Next up? Nick's Silverado!!!!! Yayayyyayayayayayayyyyyyyyy. #amiright

Looking good, buddy.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> Next up? Nick's Silverado!!!!! Yayayyyayayayayayayyyyyyyyy. #amiright
> 
> Looking good, buddy.



Thanks Nick, by the time I'm done with these, and my door baffles, I ought to be fairly decent with glassin', so bring it on!

Anyhoo,

Here's where I'm at after a little sanding. Doesn't look like I'll need too much filler, which was the plan...


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

That looks awesome! Are you going to lose your ability to defrost your side windows covering that vent or is that not a concern?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> That looks awesome! Are you going to lose your ability to defrost your side windows covering that vent or is that not a concern?


Actually, there is room underneath the pod for the defrost vent, so it shouldn't affect it's effectiveness... did I say that right?


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Very nice job man. First time glassing and you knocked it out of the park.


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

nice... what's it look like from the windshield?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

bigbubba said:


> Very nice job man. First time glassing and you knocked it out of the park.





mattyjman said:


> nice... what's it look like from the windshield?


Thanks! 

It was already dark, so this was the best I could do. Daylight would be better. Of course, the pillars will be covered in black Alcantara when finished and won't jump out quite so much.





















Instead of going to the body filler now, I think I'm going to get started on the passenger-side pillar and get it to this point before finishing them both up.


----------



## brett.b10 (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi mate smashing pillar builds ,did you not consider putting the L3se's on the back of the door mirrors ?,we have just put a set of focal bew3's on mine it sounds wicked .


Brett


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Tim,

That is a damn good idea with the aluminum tape.. You just solved an issue I was trying to resolve. The pods came out great, so the obvious question is, what do you plan on covering them with??
I am flocking the pillars I did, but I am finding out they require a super smooth surface to look good.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

brett.b10 said:


> Hi mate smashing pillar builds ,did you not consider putting the L3se's on the back of the door mirrors ?,we have just put a set of focal bew3's on mine it sounds wicked .
> 
> 
> Brett


Thanks mate, and yeah, I have considered going tweeterless and putting the L3s in pods in the sail panels, a la Scott B's G35. I still may do this in the future, but for now I wanted to go with a full 3-way + sub set up to play with, and that spot is great for the tweeters. Down the road, who knows, knowing me I'll live with it for a year, then change it up at least once before settling on something.



Thunderplains said:


> Tim,
> 
> That is a damn good idea with the aluminum tape.. You just solved an issue I was trying to resolve. The pods came out great, so the obvious question is, what do you plan on covering them with??
> I am flocking the pillars I did, but I am finding out they require a super smooth surface to look good.


Yes, the tape idea is a good one. I got the idea looking at Erin's (bikinpunk) latest pillar build where Steve Cook used this method, although I think he just went over the top with filler instead of more resin and mat like I did.

I am going to have them covered in black Alcantara (ultrasuede-like material) to match the Alcantara headliner I'll be installing.

That said, the material is thin, about 1mm, and I expect it to show most imperfections, not unlike flocking. So my plan is to get it super-smooth as though I was going to paint it, and going through the steps of body filler (rage gold) and sand, sand, sand, is the only way I know to get there.

Alcantara doesn't stretch a great deal, so it will have to be done in a couple pieces and stitched, hence the reason I'll be taking to someone else (JPM Coachworks).

Here's Robb's (rsutton1223) pillars covered in this way by those guys:










Of course, mine won't have tweeters in the pillars, and my dash will be smooth leather...


----------



## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

Why not cover the pillars first with something like 1/8 open cell foam and then do the alcantara. It will hide imperfections, reduce reflections and look more uniform with the headliner. Might want to try it and see what happens.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

darrenforeal said:


> Why not cover the pillars first with something like 1/8 open cell foam and then do the alcantara. It will hide imperfections, reduce reflections and look more uniform with the headliner. Might want to try it and see what happens.


That's an interesting idea. I just got off the phone with Alex from JPM Coachworks, and did mention this. He wasn't sure that it would be worth the trouble, that the results would be less than ideal, especially given compound curves. He also confirmed my thought that imperfections WILL show through the Alcantara, so I'm just going to stick with my plan of filler and sanding them smooth... no biggie.


----------



## Spkrboxx (Jul 21, 2010)

EditTim said:


> Alcantara doesn't stretch a great deal, so it will have to be done in a couple pieces and stitched, hence the reason I'll be taking to someone else (JPM Coachworks).


Actually if it is real alcantara it will stretch great! You have to be sure that you get the "non backed" and give it just a little heat and pull. Although in your case there is no material i know of that could go around that shape without stitching


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Spkrboxx said:


> Actually if it is real alcantara it will stretch great! You have to be sure that you get the "non backed" and give it just a little heat and pull. Although in your case there is no material i know of that could go around that shape without stitching


Yeah, if I wanted to avoid stitching, I'd have to go with flocking. Fortunately, I actually like well-done stitching, and it will tie in nicely with the stitching on the leather dash (not installed yet).

Daytime shots from exterior...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Hmmm, I need some opinions...

As mentioned, I will be replacing my dash with an all leather dash from an M5, which is covered in a smooth Napa leather. Note the stitching. Here's a pic of the driver's side where the a-pillar will meet:










After looking at the pillar from the exterior, I'm thinking it might be cool to cover the pillar as planned in Alcantara, but use smooth leather that matches the dash to cover the actual speaker pod...

Thoughts?


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'd do leather or matching vinyl over the alcantara. i don't really like the mismatch in fabric type like that, but that's just me. 

the pods look good, especially if it's your first time. if it were me, i'd fill in the shape a bit, where it meets the pillar... just to help it blend a bit more. (at the top, where you see it meet the pillar from the windshield shot) i dunno, maybe in person it looks better (not saying it's bad at all) I just think if it was blended a bit more it might look even better, especially when you get it covered.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

The complete headliner, a, b, and c pillars will all be Alcantara. The dash will be leather. So really the question is, do I want the pod to be part of the pillar, or part of the dash. My plan is to cover the pod and pillar in the Alcantara, with the dash leather. The idea of covering just the pod to match the dash just popped in my head on a lark. Maybe it's a silly idea...

I plan to fill the top if the pod a little bit so it flows along the same lines as the bottom, like you mention. Im pretty happy with the curves on the bottom, but once i start with the filler, I'll fiddle with it until i think its just right. It's not quite in its final shape, I am done glassin' it though.


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

go alcantara then. if you are going the route you are, i think it would look out of place if the other pillars are not leather, but the a pillars are.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, my clutch was starting to slip all of a sudden when the car was cold, so I dropped the tranny and pulled the clutch and flywheel to see what was going on. Maybe the rear main seal I replaced last summer was leaking and getting oil all over the clutch.
This is what I found on the back of the engine...










Looks like an M6 bolt that fastens the rear coolant plate (center) broke off, somehow, and started leaking coolant all over the clutch and flywheel. WTF...

I know I used a digital torque wrench to tighten those bolts up, and none of them appeared over-torqued at all when I removed them.

A bad fastener?

Well, the clutch is spent. That $.30 bolt just cost me $800, great.















So, while I'm waiting on parts, it's back to the focus of this thread.

Let's get the passenger side pillar started by cutting a similar hole like the other side:










After placing the pillar back in the car to put the baffle in place, CA glue was again used to join the two:










Taped up. The shape should be very similar to the driver's side, as though the speaker was on a hinge and simply pivoted outward a bit, so it will fire directly at the driver:



















And the first layers of FG mat (Knytex) laid, ready for resin.











...and the first batch of resin laid, with a couple layers of mat.











Now it's time to let cure...




Tomorrow, I'll pull the tape, lightly sand, and glass over the top like I did with the other side. So far, so good...


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Fantastic job on the pillars Tim. I just read the part to my wife about you doing all that work on the bimmer yourself - Wow!


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

My $250 torque wrench got out of calibration and I broke a bolt head off in the crank case of my Harley. Had to put the bike on its side on a ton of blankets, fabricate up a drill press, and drill the somabich out. Not one single "tool" to grip and reverse the bugger would work - they all broke. Sometimes those TWs get out of wack. Other times the bolt is just destined to pop. Sucks that that happened... at least you know how to fix it.

I sent mine to: Torque Tool Service, Repair and Calibration Lab - Team Torque Inc.. Price was reasonable.


----------



## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

I second the recommendation for team torque... They do all the wrenches for my company, and we have all of ours calibrated twice a year. 

If anyone needs to have a 1/2" wrench *checked*, not calibrated, and are in proximity to one of my locations, I should be able to arrange it for free. Just pm me


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

My CDI torque wrench seems to be just fine, I have a feeling it was just one of those unfortunate times where the bolt might have had an internal weak spot and gave out. The wrench was new and recently calibrated when I used it. That said, I may go ahead and send it out.

The fasteners were new and from the dealer too. I thought I had my bases covered... 

I'll chock this up to s#!t happens and move on with my life. At least I was able to drill a hole deep enough into the remaining fastener shaft to use an ez-out to get the SOB out without too much grief.
I've gotten pretty good at removing broken/frozen bolts. Not my favorite thing to do of course, but it a good skill to have. I had a hardened steel tap break off in a hole a few months back on a friends motorcycle that I was installing rear stand spools... I still have to take it to a machine shop to try to get that ***** out. First time in years I'll have to take something to a shop to have it removed. Oh well, live and learn...



bertholomey said:


> Fantastic job on the pillars Tim. I just read the part to my wife about you doing all that work on the bimmer yourself - Wow!


Thanks, Jason!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Great, I was awoken by the sound of purring and nursing kittens, and now I'm wide awake.











Why not check on the curing pillar? Hmmm, looks cured enough to remove the tape and glass the outside of the pod. 4am... Why not?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

I managed to get in a little sanding and installed both pillars for an initial fit, before filler.

The passenger side came out a little better at this stage. I'll get the top of the driver's side pod more like the passenger's side with filler. With any luck, I won't be sanding any more fiberglass... 

Overall, they're coming out as good or better than I expected, thus far. 










Yeah, I'm liking the upper transition curve on this pod better than my first attempt, although tough to see in this pic due to the glare. Of course, a little Rage gold will shore up the other side in the next step.















































Cool. It's _filler time_...


----------



## Tsmith (Dec 17, 2008)

Really nice. Nice job on the pillars. They are looking good!


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Wow Tim, those are coming along very nice. Hard to believe this is your first fiberglass job. What did you use to shape the tape into the form you came up with, just did it by hand?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Tsmith said:


> Really nice. Nice job on the pillars. They are looking good!





bigbubba said:


> Wow Tim, those are coming along very nice. Hard to believe this is your first fiberglass job. What did you use to shape the tape into the form you came up with, just did it by hand?


Thanks!

I'm really looking forward to getting them covered, but I've got plenty of filing and sanding in front of me. Hopefully it won't be too bad, since I really am just filling, and not building up...

I shaped the tape by hand. Just stayed patient, and not afraid to pull it up lay it down again. Just keep working it until it was right. It was a little tricky with one's fingers sticking to the tape, but not bad, and once you lay a layer of mat down (Knytex works great for this), you can really smooth out the form.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

looking good, man! looking forward to hearing it sometime in the future.


----------



## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

I love it... great job!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> looking good, man! looking forward to hearing it sometime in the future.





DAT said:


> I love it... great job!


Thank you, gentlemen! Can't wait to get this done... 


So, while waiting on a right angle attachment for my Dremel to help with sanding, I decided to get started on the door baffles for the L8's. They will be seeing some fiberglass, so I want to make sure I use the resin while it's still fresh. After that I'll do the finishing for the pillars and doors all at the same time.



Anyhoo, this is what we see after removing the door panel, the moisture barrier in place, which has to go. Airbag already moved to a safe place.










The passenger side here has a relay box above the speaker that rattles, so I took it apart to see what's rattling:










There's an IC on the board that rattles internally, as well as the outer case itself, so I put it back together, and covered it in matting. Now it's nearly silent. The first pic with the moisture barrier in place shows this box already matted, dangling.











Moisture barrier removed and door exposed. Time to make a cardboard template to fill that rather large hole...










Next, move that template over to the 2'x4' 1/4" birch the baffles will be made from...










...and break out my trusty 30-40 y.o. craftsman jigsaw handed down from my Dad to cut these out. This thing is heavy:










Check for initial fitment:










Cool. The red box will be cut out and recessed for the rear map pocket. The front map pocket will be lost to the speaker.

Got out the router and Jasper jig to knock out for baffle rings as before. Here I make a 1/2" and 3/4" MDF rings for each side to bring out the driver for clearance. This should just do it...










Now I'm going to get the fiberglass supplies out and make the recessed box, and reinforce the whole thing... hopefully later today.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Looking at the above pics, you'll notice that there are only 3 oem fastener locations useable for the baffle, and none around the bottom.

While some in the past have used a clamp method of securing the baffle, with MDF strips on the back of the baffle, sandwiching the sheet metal in between them, I wanted to try to bolt the baffle directly to the sheet metal, so I bought some "Jack nuts" from McMaster... specifically #6 screwdriver-installed rivet nuts. (McMaster-Carr)

I just got these, so here we go...

Drill a 5/16" hole for the jack nut. This hole is along the bottom of the door where no oem fasteners live. The lower hole is for the door panel clip. Oddly enough, the holes are the same size +/-...










Next, pop the jack nut in the hole use a little inclosed tool to hold it, and screw a #6 bolt in there to clamp the jack nut onto the sheet metal, like a rivet nut w/o the pricy tool that I don't own. I'll be putting more butyl rubber down to seal the whole thing, so I haven't bothered to clean any of the oem stuff from the moisture barrier yet.










I'm adding a total of 8 extra fasteners, in addition to the 3 oem ones. 5 along the bottom. Here's 2 of them installed around the upper left of the opening where the baffle is going.




























I think these are going to work...


----------



## vivmike (May 24, 2013)

wow!!


----------



## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

I cant believe I've missed this thread, must have come around when I was on my hiatus. Really like
how you showed pix of the engine build, only wish you had posted more of that part. I also see you
ride scooters, nice track day pix too. How do you like A.M.P? I've been wanting to come up for a
visit, maybe when I am done with my car it will pass tech. I wouldn't want anyone rolling through
my oil leaks. lol

question, the bolt you found the leak. Was it a new bolt or did you reuse one of the ones you took
out? I've had something like this before after reusing OEM bolts. What kind of clutch did you end up
using, I'm going replace mine in a couple weeks


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> I cant believe I've missed this thread, must have come around when I was on my hiatus. Really like
> how you showed pix of the engine build, only wish you had posted more of that part. I also see you
> ride scooters, nice track day pix too. How do you like A.M.P? I've been wanting to come up for a
> visit, maybe when I am done with my car it will pass tech. I wouldn't want anyone rolling through
> ...


Ah, yeah... didn't want to "junk up" the thread too much with non-audio stuff, but sometimes I just can't help it. I have plenty of engine pics, lol...

The bolt that failed was brand new from the dealer. It happens. 
I reused the same ones when reassembling, and made absolutely sure that the bolts were torqued properly to 10NM. Not more, not less. I feel about as good as I can moving forward.
The car is still in my backyard waiting on the clutch and flywheel to get here. My flywheel is a lightweight flywheel (13 lbs vs 40 lbs) from JB Racing, and when the friction disc is spent (like this time), I just send it to them (FL) and they "rebuild" it with a new friction disc, fasteners, and "zero"-balance it. I bought another clutch kit from ClutchMasters, and had them send it to JB Racing so they can zero-balance the pressure plate like the flywheel. This _should_ increase longevity, and make for a smooth set up.


As far as tracks go, I've never made up to AMP. I was scheduled to go in the beginning, but the park didn't open on time and the track days were postponed. Still haven't made it. That track day pic was at Road Atlanta. Barber is my personal fav though...


----------



## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Sorry if this is considered derail to others...

I only ask about reusing previous installed bolts because I have had issues with them on parts like your working on. Even though 10nm isn't a gob of torque only about 26ftlbs (I think) could it be possible that the thread stretched? I was at a buddies shop not too long ago who was working on a BMW, the bolts being used were extremely light weight, possible titanium? It was recommended that every bolt be replaced with new. I would almost look into something like ARP or a manufacture that only makes very high quality fasteners when doing a job like this. Though it isn't called for on my car (911) I plan to replace every bolt that I remove when I split the trans from the engine and all those involved with the clutch. It's all about peace of mind to me and probably wouldn't make a hoot one way or the other. If you have an engine build thread going on another site pass it along I would really like to read it, perhaps Pelican, or others?

I will have to check into JB Racing, it sounds like they do quality work. Are they going to zero balance the pressure plate itself or are you going to send them the entire clutch with flywheel to have it all zero balanced as a unit? I've read a bit about the process and seems to be a no-brainer. If nothing else perhaps zero the pressure plate disc. Its cool that they rebuild the friction disc. If you don't mind my asking what is the price difference in rebuilding the disc vs buying a new one? This could be a reasonable option for me because as you know clutches for 911's can run a couple thousand depending on brand. I'm a HUGE fan of light weight flywheels and plan to do this as well. I ran one on my last car and I could definitely tell the difference between it and the HEAVY stocker and it was only 28lbs (I think it was) and I went down to 10lbs.

AMP reminds me of Barber in the elevation changes and angulations, I hope to make it up at some point this year. Who doesn't love the museum corner? I LOVE Barber (I'm in Mobile, sister lives about 20min from the track in Chelsea) and trying to explain how nice it is to someone that hasn't been, well, they just cant comprehend. I only wish they hadn't put up the catch fence in order to run INDY. It was SO much nicer without from a spectator's standpoint. 

Again, sorry for the derail. I couldn't help myself when I saw that motor!
Cheers,
Scott


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Sorry if this is considered derail to others...
> 
> I only ask about reusing previous installed bolts because I have had issues with them on parts like your working on. Even though 10nm isn't a gob of torque only about 26ftlbs (I think) could it be possible that the thread stretched? I was at a buddies shop not too long ago who was working on a BMW, the bolts being used were extremely light weight, possible titanium? It was recommended that every bolt be replaced with new. I would almost look into something like ARP or a manufacture that only makes very high quality fasteners when doing a job like this. Though it isn't called for on my car (911) I plan to replace every bolt that I remove when I split the trans from the engine and all those involved with the clutch. It's all about peace of mind to me and probably wouldn't make a hoot one way or the other. If you have an engine build thread going on another site pass it along I would really like to read it, perhaps Pelican, or others?
> 
> ...


Hey Scott, no worries about a thread derail, a bit here and there is encouraged and makes the build log a more interesting read IMHO. The off topic posts are simple enough to skip if one isn't into them, when there aren't too many... 

Yes, 10nm isn't much torque (it's just under 7.5 lbs/ft BTW), so it would be easy to over do it. The M6 bolts (at least here) are 8.8 grade steel, so they are not stressed. I'm reusing them from the last time and simply replaced the failed one with a spare I had (new). Some of BMW's fasteners are an alloy of some sort, but not these.

I never did an engine build log anywhere, sorry. I would have posted one on bimmerforums, but honestly, I felt there were enough DIY's with good pics that I wouldn't be contributing anything new.

JB Racing is awesome. They are a full-blown machine shop, not a rebadger/reseller. They flywheels they make are beautiful. It's a shame to have to hide them in the bellhousing. Very high quality.
Yes, I had my entire clutch kit shipped to them for balancing, although they don't need the clutch, only the pressure plate.
Cost for the flywheel rebuild is only $150 (vs $800-1000 new). Zero-balancing the PP is another $50.
The last time I did this, Dennis from JB mentioned that it was a good thing I sent them the PP to have it balanced, since it was not at all within their tolerances... something like 4x the amount deemed acceptable. So, yeah, a no brainer.

Barber is a wonderful place. I try to make a pilgrimage whenever I can, and drag friends with me. They are always amazed such a place exists. Funny thing... my track bike (an '03 Aprilia Mille R Colin Edwards Replica, 1 of 50 in the US) is represented in the museum with a bone stock example, donated by Colin himself.
I will get to AMP one of these days, it looks like a fun track, and I love the elevation changes. I'm still nursing some injuries though, so no track days for me this season. 

Scott, love your car man. I haven't had a chance to go through your whole thread, but keep it up! Unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with Crohn's, having a sister with it (now deceased, cancer), and myself getting hit with flairs last summer, in the middle of my engine work. 4 bad flairs in 6 weeks. I lost 30 lbs. and felt like I was going to die. Most people would say I didn't have 30 lbs to lose, being 6' tall and 160 lbs, but sure enough, when I got on the scale after I was feeling better, I was down to 128.  I've only been able to put on about 9 lbs since. It's a process...
The SCD diet has been very helpful in getting me closer to normalcy, have you tried it? I'm staying away from meds and am dealing with it trough diet.
I'm sure my Crohn's isn't as bad as yours, but flairs are flairs and boy do they suck bad. It took me until my 40's to realize my ever-so-often bouts of nasty "food poisoning" weren't that at all. :blush:


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Lookie what just came, yay!










I've had this flywheel for five or six years now... just all freshened up!

Probably going to get started on the clutch tomorrow to get the car back on the road.


----------



## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

SWEET, Time to get that jewl back on the streets..

Thanks for the comments, yes, my Crohn's is very hard to deal with and has
been sense being diagnosed very late. Most get diagnosed before the age of
20 and surly by the age of 30, I was 37 and have had a resection nearly every
year sense. It is just a part of life now, so I do the best I can when I can. To
many here they think I should just be done with it and take my car to a shop
and have it done. But I've never given a job/hobby to someone and let them
finish it for me. I would rather only do a couple things a year than do that and
when I'm done I have my own satisfaction. Besides, if everyone with a disability
gave in every time it got tough what is the use in having the goal? I am glad though
that your Crohn's doesn't hold you back so much. A bout from time to time is
far better. 

I look forward to your progress,
Scott

BTW, that is a BA looking FW, it is a damn shame you have to cover it up with
a trans....

My track day weapon, like yours they have one in the museum. What I am trying
to save up and get now is a Tuono Factory R



This is the Tuono that came with two sets of fairings one street one track. I missed
out on a very low miles one last year for 7k, kick myself from time to time for passing on it.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Did you say Tuono Factory R????

I will never get rid of this bike! 

In touring mode out West (Hwy 1)... 



















The Tuono is about the most fun one can have on 2 wheels.
Go for it man, you won't regret it. Reminds me on one of my favorite sayings...
"It's much better to regret something you _have_ done, than to regret something you _haven't_ done..."

Screw those folks who say you should take your car to a shop, where's the fun in that? It's not the destination man, it's all about the journey. The music will sound so much sweeter knowing that it was all you, as you obviously know.

Crohn's resection... yikes, sorry to hear that. My sister had those. And that doesn't even treat the Crohn's itself.
If you're unfamiliar, I HIGHLY recommend Breaking the Vicious Cycle - The Specific Carbohydrate Diet
I'd definitely be on meds if it weren't for the info and diet from this book.


----------



## Datsubishi (Jan 9, 2012)

Awesome work overall! I've done a little 'glass work on one of my cars, but I hope my first audio project/quality visual piece turns out as well as your pillars. Definitely sub'd for updates. I don't mind the mechanical somewhat sidetracking


----------



## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Okay, you own a FACTORY R.. You know, I'm starting to dislike you. lol/ j/k. Though the one 
you have is older than the ones I have my sights set on. It is prolly a better bike with newer 
updates/upgrades, I just LOVE the looks, feel, finish of the one I posted above that was taken 
at Barber. I rode a few bikes in the class, a 2011 Speed Triple (very close second, but a dime 
a dozen here) KTM SuperDuke just wasn't in the same league in comfort, Buell Lightning, and 
a MV Agusta Brutale. Out of them all and after owning my NC30 I have to have something you 
just don't ever see. So it came down to the MV and Tuono and for the money and rarity I want 
the Aprilia. I just love how they look and ride. The thing was like riding a couch vs the pizza 
box I had with the NC. 

Yeah I have pretty much written off the folks on my build thread, that suggest I have someone 
just finish it up. This board does have some, lets just say unique (for the sake of being nice) people on it.

The resections, well, the 1st one was VERY painful because I was going into septic shock 
due to the hole in my intestine. So, all my organs had to be semi removed and cleaned then 
put back in with lots of fluid so they would float back to normal positions. I was in the HP 
for 2 months, and this was only a few months after my accident that caused me to be 
disabled. Life goes on huh.

So, how did those pillars sound? Would you change anything if you had to do it all over? 
I really do wish I could do dash speakers in my 911! They look so trick!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Datsubishi said:


> Awesome work overall! I've done a little 'glass work on one of my cars, but I hope my first audio project/quality visual piece turns out as well as your pillars. Definitely sub'd for updates. I don't mind the mechanical somewhat sidetracking


Thanks, I really appreciate the compliments! 




FLYONWALL9 said:


> Okay, you own a FACTORY R.. You know, I'm starting to dislike you. lol/ j/k. Though the one
> you have is older than the ones I have my sights set on. It is prolly a better bike with newer
> updates/upgrades, I just LOVE the looks, feel, finish of the one I posted above that was taken
> at Barber. I rode a few bikes in the class, a 2011 Speed Triple (very close second, but a dime
> ...


I love either generation of the V2 Tuono. The newest v4 gen is awesome, but I just love the v-twin. The gen 1's are a little "edgier" than the gen 2's like mine. The v2 torque is intoxicating, especially when dropping a tooth up front for shorter gearing. I added a Bazzaz unit with traction control and a quick shifter... fun, fun, fun!
The Brutale is a damn sexy bike, but unconfortable as hell as far as I'm concerned. The Tuono just hits me the right way in all the right places. Dead reliable too.
Sweet NC30 BTW... I had my eye on a RC51 for the longest time... 

Oh, the pillars? I'd love to hear how they sound too... :laugh:
I never hooked up the speakers when I did the initial fitment, and they are in my back room waiting on me to hit them with a light coat of filler and final sanding.
I'm going to make more progress on the door baffles before I do that, and I'm going to do my clutch/flywheel install before that (tomorrow).
Also have to replace my radiator (warranty issue), while the car is parked, since my 7 month old Behr developed a small leak at the aluminum/plastic juncture...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, slow and steady wins the race, right? :worried:

Not much progress, but here's how the door baffles are coming along...

Had to box up the recessed area for the rear map pocket, so used the tape method for this as well. I used the moisture barrier as a guide for how deep the recess needed to be. About 1" along the bottom, and around 1 1/2" along the top. Not a whole lot of clearance, so these measurements need to be pretty spot on.



















Checking clearance here, speaker and rings held in place... window rolls down no problem. Hard to see, but I rounded the top edges of the baffle rings with the router.











Well, there's at least a couple mm... there will be more space once the speakers are mounted with butyl rubber or non-hardening clay as a gasket/decoupler. Pic taken via phone through the open slot needed for the armrest bracket.










#10 Tee nuts, counter sunk in the 3/4' MDF rings. 









Glued and clamped, after glassing the backsides a bit for some added strength and water resistance.










Slow and steady...


----------



## req (Aug 4, 2007)

just FYI - if you live where it gets hot - DONT use clay.

i lived in NY and now VA, and clay can\will melt and make a stupid mess - hopefully it wont get in your speakers voice coil...


use DUCT SEAL. you can get it a home depot or lowes in the electrical section. it is normally used to seal bulkheads where wire and conduit pass through to make a water\air tight seal. they use it on aircraft carriers built in the 70's (i was on CVN69) and its still sticky and soft after all those years in the persian gulf (130* outside) and back through the atlantic (cold as fu*k). it wont harden or get brittle. its waterproof and awesome. its also really dense and they sell it in 1lb bricks for like $3\ea.

getting it off is a chore if you ever need to remove it - but there isnt a product in this category that isnt 

i would highly recommend this over clay.

https://www.google.com/search?q=duc...i90AG72oDwCg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1170&bih=739


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

req said:


> just FYI - if you live where it gets hot - DONT use clay.
> 
> i lived in NY and now VA, and clay can\will melt and make a stupid mess - hopefully it wont get in your speakers voice coil...
> 
> ...



You bet! I'm covered already in this regard:










I just said "non-hardening clay" because most have never seen the Duct Seal in the 1 lb. "plugs". The HD & Lowe's guys will usually point to the stuff in a bucket... NOT the same stuff. Yep, it's in the electrical section. I went into HD with a SKU number, where their website listed 10 in stock, and no one could find the stuff... I had to get the manager to hunt it down, and he had to look it up too. Good thing I had the SKU. No one in the store knew what it was, or what it was good for. Not sure why it's such a f#@kin' secret... 

Thanks for your description though... I didn't really know it was THAT badass!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, I'm calling the door baffles about done. I still need to dampen the outer door skin and other sound dampening stuff, and I can't really move forward on the doors until I get the new (to me) door panels that I'll be modding. So I'll wait until they arrive before I officially rip out the old 5 1/4" Polks, and install the L8's in their new baffle.

To stiffen them up, I not only glassed the back sides, but I CA glued, and fiberglassed over a couple of flat, 1/8" aluminum strips.
Nevermind the sloppy chop mat job here, it won't be seen at all. It looks sloppy, because the chop mat's binder dissolves in poly resin, not the epoxy resin I'm using, so it had to tear it up in order to wet it out. Works quite nicely in providing strength to corners and further securing the aluminum to the baffles, making them one.
They are REALLY stiff now, yet still thin, and don't give me any clearance issues at all.










Here they are after covering the front sides in resin. I'll likely add some CDL (not that it needs it with the mass the aluminum adds ), and MLV/CCF over that, depending on how much room I have to work with, the main reason I didn't build up the front of the baffle.

I'll shoot them with some black paint on the fronts, but I'm happy with how they are looking now...










I _should_ be returning to finishing the pillars with filler next...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)




----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Nice nice nice ! I love it !


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

optimaprime said:


> Nice nice nice ! I love it !


Thanks!


Well, for some reason I was reluctant to start with body filler on the pillars, somewhat intimidated I guess, and didn't want to mess up the nice shapes of the pillar pods.

Gotta make progress though, so it's filler time. Like much of this build, I've never dealt with body filler before, so I was completely sure what to expect.

Right off the bat, I was very surprised at how fast the filler (Rage Gold) set up and started to cure. Caught me off-guard actually. I mixed and applied the filler outside, where it was in the mid-80's. After mixing the filler and hardener together, I set the stopwatch and went to work. Well, 3 1/3 minutes later the filler was curing... 

OK, less hardener then. I used half the amount, and managed to 4 1/2 minutes before it started to cure. Damn, gotta work fast with this stuff... :blush:

So several small batches got me to here... not exactly a thing of beauty. I ran out of time too, so I didn't do any initial sanding before the filler was completely cured, oh well. Live and learn...










I little thicker than I wanted, but whatever, time to sand, sand, sand.

I used my Dremel with a right angle attachment and a sanding disc, 60 grit, to knock down the high spots and get me close, before sanding by hand with 80 grit. Had to add some more filler in some spots, as expected, and continued to sand until the shape was where I wanted it. Then I went to 120 grit, then 220, and finally 400. Sanding went _a little_ easier than I expected.

I'm still finishing up the passenger side, but here's the driver's side, basically done except for hitting it with some primer, and taking them out to get covered in Alcantara. I'm not worried about the pin holes in the filler, I can't really feel them when I run my hand over them, so I'm confident they wont show from underneath the Alcantara material.

The Driver's side pillar:




























I am very pleased with how these are coming out!


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

looks good for your first go at it... keep it up!


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Yes, and I'm next in line! Right, Tim!!!!!!??!?!?!??!

RIGHT?!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> Yes, and I'm next in line! Right, Tim!!!!!!??!?!?!??!
> 
> RIGHT?!


maybe :laugh:


Well, the pillars are done, and I have already dropped them off for upholstering. Going to be 3 weeks before I see them again. The shop is a busy one. You should have seen the e90 M3 they were doing. Damn. The car had an ESS supercharger on it's v8, but the interior was really getting the treatment. OEM racing type seats from Germany, while JPM is doing the rear seats to match with a mix of Ferrari leathers and Alcantara throughout. Very nicely done. No pics, sorry.

Here are the last pics of the pillars before they left... no more fussing with them now that they are out of my hands, lol.

The passenger side:










Driver's pillar is on the right in this pic:










...and a final pic. I could have continued to sand, and add more filler, and sand again (repeat), etc... but I learned a long time ago to find a place of satisfaction, even if it's still not finished to absolute perfection (not that should EVER be a goal in a DIY project). 












Time to work on installing the amps!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

...and a likely layout. I want to mount them heatsink down, under the parcel shelf, mostly out of sight. So far I'm thinking of using 3/4" wide, square aluminum tubing to bolt the amps to. Still playing around with ideas...


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

This is looking good!

Would you happened to have a picture of the interior? That trim looks funky, trying to see if you wrapped OEM wood trim or...?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Mless5 said:


> This is looking good!
> 
> Would you happened to have a picture of the interior? That trim looks funky, trying to see if you wrapped OEM wood trim or...?


Thanks man...

Yeah, I covered the oem wood with 3M Di-Noc wrap (me379). I'll probably re-do a couple pieces, but I really like the look, especially after looking at the oem wood for 10 years, It was time for a change. I can always go back to oem, or something else altogether.

Here's a pic of the HU like on page 1, but with emphasis on the wrapped bezel, so the HU is blown out so one can see wrap detail. It's a dark, brushed look I find rather classy and understated...  The flash makes it sparkly-er, if that's a word (it's not ) 

Check out the 4th pic in post #1, and the last pic in post #6 as well.

My pics aren't very good of the interior, however. Here's a thread with an e39 M5 with the same exact trim treatment, and better photos.

Mine:


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Thank you Sir! I have been following this thread quite a bit, liking what you did there very much.
I am picking up a 540 with black interior and would like to re-do wood trim as well. I think plain stainless steel or brushed would stand out a bit too much.

Thank you for the link as well!


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

EditTim said:


> maybe :laugh:
> 
> Well, the pillars are done, and I have already dropped them off for upholstering. Going to be 3 weeks before I see them again. The shop is a busy one. You should have seen the e90 M3 they were doing. Damn. The car had an ESS supercharger on it's v8, but the interior was really getting the treatment. OEM racing type seats from Germany, while JPM is doing the rear seats to match with a mix of Ferrari leathers and Alcantara throughout. Very nicely done. No pics, sorry.


I did see that car - Amazing - the epitome of that saying, "looks like it is going a million miles an hour sittin' still". Alex and the boys have done a great job with it - I'd love to see a photo shoot of it once it is done. 

I can't wait to see what your pillars look like once they come back.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Mless5 said:


> Thank you Sir! I have been following this thread quite a bit, liking what you did there very much.
> I am picking up a 540 with black interior and would like to re-do wood trim as well. I think plain stainless steel or brushed would stand out a bit too much.
> 
> Thank you for the link as well!


No problem!

I agree, brushed silver or anything bright doesn't work for me. This particular wrap works very, very well, despite my poor picture taking.




bertholomey said:


> I did see that car - Amazing - the epitome of that saying, "looks like it is going a million miles an hour sittin' still". Alex and the boys have done a great job with it - I'd love to see a photo shoot of it once it is done.
> 
> I can't wait to see what your pillars look like once they come back.


Hey Jason, looks like that car should be done by Wednesday from what I understand, so if you want to see/hear it done, that might be a good day to do it!

Yeah, I can't wait to get these back too, especially now that I'm staring at bare pillars and tubes (airbags).


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Alrighty, I went ahead and made an amp rack out of square aluminum tubing like I had mentioned. I cut the 3/4" square tubes to size and took them to a local metal fabricator for some welding. Aluminum welding is way beyond my area of expertise. I thought they did a really nice job:




















Next I going to add some riv-nuts for securing the amps to the rack, and the rack to the parcel shelf.



I also picked up my freshly Alcantara covered pillars from JPM Coachworks, and yes, they did an outstanding job, as expected. I just brought these home, so I haven't had time to install them yet:


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Looks great! Hope you get to make it up in Sept.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Great Rack! (I'm in Charleston, so that seems appropriate - especially as the Power Yoga participants stroll by). 

JPM did an amazing job as well. I'm looking forward to getting my dash piece back from them. 

I hope to see / hear your car in September.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks guys, really happy with how both things (rack, pillars) came out.
The plan IS to make it up there (NC meet) in Sept, so we'll see what happens. Chances are slim if my install isn't done... :blush: _Should_ be be done though... 

Here's the driver's side pillar with a driver fitted. It's the yellow indoor lighting making the Alcantara brownish. It's actually Anthracite (dark grey). Still need to make some grills. Can you say, _press fit_...


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Those look awesome! After seeing their work on that silver wrx in atl. I knew they would. Here's hoping its done by Sept. and you can make it, I know you'll be looking to show it off!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

claydo said:


> Those look awesome! After seeing their work on that silver wrx in atl. I knew they would. Here's hoping its done by Sept. and you can make it, I know you'll be looking to show it off!


Yep, that's the plan. I love using g2g's as deadlines...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

A couple shots with the pillars in place. These were not easy to get back in. They barely fit, especially the passenger side... but "barely" fits, means they fit! Whew... 

These are about as far back and wide I could get them without cutting into the dash.

Lots o' rain here in the ATL...




















Back to working on the amp rack now...


----------



## strakele (Mar 2, 2009)

Looking great Tim! Hope I'll get to hear it completed some day.


----------



## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Nice work on this install.

I'd like to see those tweeters next to those mids but other than that very nice work considering you've never done any elaborate fab work before.


What type of paint did you use on those door baffles? Anything special or just a regular rattle can flat black?


----------



## perfecxionx (Sep 4, 2009)

mind me asking what they charged you to wrap the pillars?



EditTim said:


> I also picked up my freshly Alcantara covered pillars from JPM Coachworks, and yes, they did an outstanding job, as expected. I just brought these home, so I haven't had time to install them yet:


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

strakele said:


> Looking great Tim! Hope I'll get to hear it completed some day.


Thanks, Grayson!
I'll be at Erin's g2g if you can make it...



GlasSman said:


> Nice work on this install.
> 
> I'd like to see those tweeters next to those mids but other than that very nice work considering you've never done any elaborate fab work before.
> 
> ...


Oh, those tweeters are pretty close, 3"-4" away from the mids. 

The black I used on the door baffles was simply rattle can black primer. I hit them with a rattle can gloss black enamel afterwards (not shown).



perfecxionx said:


> mind me asking what they charged you to wrap the pillars?


Not cheap, but fair... $130/side. Alcantara is a little over $100/yard... :blush:


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

I just read through this whole build so far, Im very impressed! Looking forward to watching the finish of this. Im starting a build very soon and hope to apply the same patience and similar talent as you clearly have. A great read btw. And my true love for cars is the 5 series mbw's. As soon as my kids are out of the house (off my insurance) I will own a 5 series M sport wagon!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

deeppinkdiver said:


> I just read through this whole build so far, Im very impressed! Looking forward to watching the finish of this. Im starting a build very soon and hope to apply the same patience and similar talent as you clearly have. A great read btw. And my true love for cars is the 5 series mbw's. As soon as my kids are out of the house (off my insurance) I will own a 5 series M sport wagon!


Thanks man! 
I hear ya on the wagons, I'd love to have an e39 540iT! I pass a white one every now and then, and can't stop thinking about it, lol... 




Today, while I was fussing with the amp rack under the rear deck, which is going to work very well for me, I decided to go ahead and hook up the subs and sub amp to get a feel for what rattles I'll need to address.

 I love these subs!!!!

Sooooo clean and musical... I couldn't be happier with how they sound, and this is before any level matching or tuning. They can move the whole car effortlessly, while digging nice and deep. I played "Bass, I love you" with it's 7Hz note hits...  Those notes really made the truck vent flaps go crazy, not that I could here them in the cabin.
Gotta take care of some rattles coming from the trunk lid and license plate, the rest of the truck is in pretty good shape.

Happy Happy Joy Joy :rockon:


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Wow, no rattles from the back deck? Lucky you, that's a pretty common problem area.......once again, pumping me up to hear it! Hows the sound on them pillars, BTW?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

claydo said:


> Wow, no rattles from the back deck? Lucky you, that's a pretty common problem area.......once again, pumping me up to hear it! Hows the sound on them pillars, BTW?


Yep, no rattles from the back deck, which actually surprised me, especially since the c-pillar lights and seat belts are just sitting on top of the rear deck at the moment, although the parcel shelf itself isn't in place yet while I fit the amp rack. Still have to dampen that thing too.

As far as the pillars are concerned, I have yet to wire them up. I have to remove most of the interior to get wiring to them, and I'm STILL waiting on some interior pieces, so I'm waiting on those before I rip out most of the interior. Although now that the subs are playing, the mid and mid-bass are REALLY sucking until I wire up the pillars and install the L8's in the doors.:blush: It's still an HUGE improvement over the craptastic sub stage I was running before.

To say I've lost my patience waiting for interior pieces is an understatement. If my install isn't done by the g2g's coming up, it will be because of this reason.


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Wow, much patience have you.........I woulda had them pillars in as soon as I got my grubby hands on them..........couldn't wait for the tuning fun!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

claydo said:


> Wow, much patience have you.........I woulda had them pillars in as soon as I got my grubby hands on them..........couldn't wait for the tuning fun!


Oh, I popped them into place as soon as I got them... they are pretty to look at, lol... but yeah, my patience has been through the wringer over the past year or more. I really do want to get this show on the road so I can get to tuning...


----------



## mnjordan (May 23, 2013)

Where can one purchase that 3M film? I've been looking for something like it to do my interior.

Killer work on those pods!


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

man i really dig this build !!!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

optimaprime said:


> man i really dig this build !!!





mnjordan said:


> Where can one purchase that 3M film? I've been looking for something like it to do my interior.
> 
> Killer work on those pods!


Thanks guys! 

The 3M film was from eBay, but I don't see the 3M Di-Noc (in me-379) on there currently. You could try this place:
3M Di-Noc Metallic Series


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Alrighty, time for an update...

I managed to knock out a couple of press-fit speaker grilles for the pillar pods.

Pics are from ver 2.0... the first attempt using a not-very-stretchy material did not come out as well as I would have liked.

Cut out 3 1/2" rings from 1/4" birch using the Jasper jig & router:










Painted black:










CA glued a thin, stretchy (in both directions) material from the fabric store:










...and ready to install.










I pretty happy with these for the time being, they fit rather well...

...and yes, these are press-fit! No magnets used.



















I'll keep a look out for a speaker grille material that will better match the pillars' anthracite Alcantara.


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Why not get more of the Alcantara and have it perforated by a saddle shop? I think they have those machines or whatever that do that to leather... only get like triple the perfs done. Also, I've seen girls wearing nylons/yoga paints that are sorta like your a-pillar material. They look f'ing terrible on a girl but maybe it works for you. They'd be thinner then, I think. Personally I'd rather go for matching the tweeter gril you have off to the left.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> Why not get more of the Alcantara and have it perforated by a saddle shop? I think they have those machines or whatever that do that to leather... only get like triple the perfs done. Also, I've seen girls wearing nylons/yoga paints that are sorta like your a-pillar material. They look f'ing terrible on a girl but maybe it works for you. They'd be thinner then, I think. Personally I'd rather go for matching the tweeter gril you have off to the left.


Yeah, I'll look into various possibilities. Not in any real hurry on that front...




I went ahead and made my own RCAs. I already had some Knu rcas, but thought making them might be a cool project, being in the spirit of diy, and most importantly, gives me the odd lengths I'll need.

So...

Some of the materials...










Some red Gepco 61801EZ, Rean NYS373 connectors, and carbon techflex. There's also some 90 degree switchcraft rcas in the pics as well as a 3.5mm stereo mini plug for an iPod to HU (rca in).

Not a thing a beauty, but it does the job. The solder connections are small, and my eyesight isn't the best, so this is about as good as it got... 

Shown here, is the drain wire twisted together with the black wire, before grounding both to the connector. This is for the source side only. Not shown, the destination side, has the drain wire clipped.










And done. This one goes from the Sub amp to the DSP. Hard to see, but the destination side (amp side) has small black heat shrink rings to indicate this.










Thus far I have finished all of the RCAs except the long runs from the head unit. Still need to get the exact measurements.


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Coming right along Tim! Looking great too, I might add. I wondered the other day about any updates, with deadlines looming, and all. Ya gonna have it ready?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

claydo said:


> Coming right along Tim! Looking great too, I might add. I wondered the other day about any updates, with deadlines looming, and all. Ya gonna have it ready?


Thanks, Clay! 
I _should_ have most everything installed by the upcoming gtg's, especially since I have some door panels on the way that I can mod for the mid-bass drivers, which has been holding me up more than anything else. I seriously want to get everything installed, but no prediction on state of tune. All I know right now, is my car sucks for lack of mid bass, and well, sucks in general except the HU and subs as it stands currently, and I want this to change as soon as reasonably possible.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Ok, I received my door panels to mod so now I can get this install on a faster pace.

Here is the driver's side "Executive Leather" all leather door panel. Every surface is covered in soft Napa leather. They are in great shape and are really quite nice. Note the cool stitching around the map pockets and what-not. Actual stitched leather, and not a faux look, imagine that. It's going to be nerve-racking to cut into these. I'll be selling my old, unmolested panels.










And the back side. The door panels are not plastic at all, it's a pressed wood composite of some kind. Only the map pockets are plastic, and this one is going. Also shown here are Sharpie lines drawn where cutting needs to happen for the L8s.










Map pocket removed. I'll need to cut off the part of the pocket with the two plastic mounting fasteners and reattach that to the panel before installing, seen in the bottom of the pic.










Things are held together with plastic or metal rivets, so here's goes nothing... Dremel time!


















I also cut of the rivets for the speaker grille.

Now the real cutting. No turning back now. This was indeed, rather nerve-racking...










And a check to see if I cut enough out by putting a speaker baffle behind it.










I think this will work. The speaker grille might be challenging, depending on how I do it. I worry about that a bit later. Fitment is first priority here. I gotta admit, I _think_ I'll have enough clearance in the baffle for the rear map pocket, but won't know until I fit everything to the car. I know this has been an issue on others' builds.




The 5 1/4" speaker grilles removed. Hmmm, I think I'll go ahead and try to make grilles for the L3s out of these, that way the grilles will match the tweeter grilles exactly for that sort-of oem look. Worth noting, I have some very nice black grille cloth from Speakerworks I will likely try, since that is what I'm using for the door grilles, and I also ordered some charcoal speaker cloth (Stinger) to see if it matches the anthracite Alcantara of the pillar. I like options.

So again, the removed 5" grilles:










and with the backing removed, next to my v.2 grilles:










and roughly how it would look, matching the tweeter grille:










As I mentioned before, I like how the current grilles look, so I'm in no big hurry to fab grilles, but I do like the idea of the matching metal mesh grille.

Now I need to get to dampening the doors, attaching the baffles, and seeing if the door panels will fit properly. Again, the rear map pocket is the only question mark, and may need adjusting, we'll see...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

EditTim said:


> ...I _think_ I'll have enough clearance in the baffle for the rear map pocket, but won't know until I fit everything to the car. I know this has been an issue on others' builds...


Sigh... 

The rear map packet doesn't quite fit when putting the door panel on.

Sooooo close, missed it by 1/8"-1/4"...

I was debating whether I should deepen the baffle box, or cut and mod the map pocket itself, but the cleanest solution won out, and I cut and re-glassed 
Good thing I had some resin left over, whew... 

I used a dremel for the first baffle, but it looked crappy, so I used a hand saw for the next one, seen here. Much cleaner.










I don't need much extra space, and too much will cause problems with the window glass clamp. The tape here is just for holding the gap spacing.










With the spacing set, I foil tape the inside of the box.

Worth noting here: I had to cut out some more baffle along where the door handle bracket is for fitment. Seen below...










All taped up and ready for resin and mat...










Glassed up:










Cured. Remove tape from inside, and light sanding of the sharp spots, done.










Checked to see if my door panels will fit now... They do, YAY!
Checked to see if the door glass hits the baffle... it doesn't, YAY!

At the end of the day, this wasn't that big of a deal. Problem solved.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

...and the fitment pics.

It's tight behind the rear map pocket. Once I deepened the baffle's box, it BARELY clears the bracket holding the window as it goes down. But goes down, it does! Without actually scraping the rear of the baffle's box, it clears it by 1mm. Whew...




























Not exactly a ton of room. There's about 5mm distance b/t the driver motor and the glass when down. A bigger driver is probably not in the cards. A Dyn MW182 "10 inch" driver might fit though.

I've got some ideas on how to do the grilles, but I'll continue to kick _that_ can down the road for the time being. I need to finish doing the mounting for the driver's side door baffle (pictured), with installing rivnuts, and then deaden the doors and run wires, with means pulling the interior out. Yay.


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

It's coming along very nicely!!!


----------



## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

PHAT L8 in PHAT door = FUN!


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

This is looking great! Im tinkering with a similar idea for my Scion Xb doors and a pair of Illusion Audio C8 drivers. From the looks of it I can go crazy with a box because my window does not go down all the way to the speakers =)


----------



## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Tim.. Hey again.. been offline for a bit, but wow looks great!

Hey who did your pillars?? I am VERY impressed..


----------



## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Follow the contour of the map pocket and the arm rest and make one big grill. It will look much more OEM and follow the lines.
nothing makes a nice install look gaudy like misplaced circles or cuts outs or grills that dont follow the vehicles body lines


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sydmonster said:


> PHAT L8 in PHAT door = FUN!


Indeed! 



deeppinkdiver said:


> This is looking great! Im tinkering with a similar idea for my Scion Xb doors and a pair of Illusion Audio C8 drivers. From the looks of it I can go crazy with a box because my window does not go down all the way to the speakers =)


Awesome, go for it man! Those C8's are sweet... 



Thunderplains said:


> Tim.. Hey again.. been offline for a bit, but wow looks great!
> 
> Hey who did your pillars?? I am VERY impressed..


Why, thank you sir! 

Pillars were fabricated by yours truly, of course, but the covering of the pillars with the Alcantara (and the cool stitching) was JCM Coachworks, local to me, but they do work from all over the place. Excellent upholstery work, I must say! The only part of the build not done by me, and me only. 



Mic10is said:


> Follow the contour of the map pocket and the arm rest and make one big grill. It will look much more OEM and follow the lines.
> nothing makes a nice install look gaudy like misplaced circles or cuts outs or grills that dont follow the vehicles body lines


Hey Mic, that is indeed the plan. There are a few out there that are really close to what I want, and here is a pic of one that is closest to what I'm shooting for. Only difference (besides grille cloth, I've got some nice SpeakerWorks stuff), is the curve at the top of the grille. I want mine to match the curve right next to it. Something like this, illustrated in pic below:


(Not my car or pic, just my red scribbles) 









Sunday, time permitting, I plan to pull out the dash, and fit the all leather in. Should be quite the undertaking, but maybe not too bad. It will likely be a couple days of a project, especially if I try to run wires at the same time, but at least I can ride my bike to work Monday...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Rainy day today, so I got little done, but did get the aforementioned 5 1/4" speaker grilles modded to to work with the L3se's in the pillars.

The grille material was fairly stiff, so bending without creasing wasn't really going to happen. This was the best I could do with what I had on hand...


























Trimmed the edges so the grille can countersink just a bit...



















Not perfect, but not too bad either. The grille is pretty much flush with the edge of the pod, just _a bit_ countersunk, not as much as the shadow makes it look. I like it better than the first versions I made. Having the L3's grilles match the tweeter grilles work quite nicely, me thinks. I think I'll live with this for the time being...


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Those look badass man! Wanting to make some of those my truck pillars. Should have done it a long time ago. The cone on my AP has already turned a cool copper color.


----------



## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

oooh... little bit og HAT SE phase plug peeking through too.

Going by the photo, I think it looks good.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks guys, me likey the copper phase plug... I do want to see it at least a little bit. My first grilles were too dark to let anything show through, which was good as far as hiding the grille frame, but not so good for viewing the plug. 

I'm gutting the interior right now, so it will be a few days at least before I have any pics installed next to the tweeters... :blush:


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I bet if you REALLY wanted to you could use a shrinking hammer on those bits that aren't round. I think it looks great though. VERY nice.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> I bet if you REALLY wanted to you could use a shrinking hammer on those bits that aren't round. I think it looks great though. VERY nice.


Thanks for mentioning this... 

Yes, I'm plenty OCD enough to continue to work the grilles until they are perfect. :blush:

Once installed, if ANY part of the the grille looks "not round" I WILL be working them until I deem them acceptable. Honestly, the only part that may be an issue is where the pod meets the pillar. We'll see...


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, finally got started on this. Not sure what have I got myself into... :blush:


----------



## darrenforeal (Jan 14, 2011)

lol. nice


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

Any pics of the underside of the dash and the a pillar area? 

Thinking about flushing my L3s in that area. Every shop I talked to said it'd be too much work and no gain.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Jfreak said:


> Any pics of the underside of the dash and the a pillar area?
> 
> Thinking about flushing my L3s in that area. Every shop I talked to said it'd be too much work and no gain.


Not really, I've already installed my newer upper dash back in place.

HERE is a thread from the m5board where a member did a dash swap. He has some better pics with the dash removed.


I'd say there's room. There is space under cream/tan colored foam under the upper dash. The passenger airbag is a little in the way, but there's space behind it for a 3", no problem.


HERE is a thread you need to check out, Josh. The original is in Swedish, but I've linked to the Google translation for ya. It's a full e39 *mids in the dash* build (w/ DLS drivers), and damn, he did an awesome job. Looks pro (and a lot of work)... check it out.


----------



## Jfreak (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Tim! That last link is perfect!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Jfreak said:


> Thanks Tim! That last link is perfect!


No problem, Josh. I wish I had remembered it when you first mentioned doing dash mids. I actually found that a year or more ago. If you can do as good a job as "Hewi," I'll be super-duper impressed!


----------



## Tominizer (Jul 5, 2012)

Very nice work....... great build


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Tominizer said:


> Very nice work....... great build


Thanks man!


Well, been rather busy, but still tried to get some work done.

With most of the interior out, including the dash...










I figured now was the ideal time to tackle modding the HAVC box behind the HU. That is, if in fact, I wanted to go with a Janus Design type DD Bezel that allows mounting of the head unit flush with the rest of the dash.

Originally, I hadn't planned on going this route, as I was basically satisfied with the Mentra Bezel covered in the 3M DiNoc wrap I used for the rest of the dash:










But after installing the leather dash, the 3M wrap just wasn't doing it for me, Since everything in the dash and door panel areas were now real-deal leather, the wrap trim just seemed wrong, covering up the real-deal wood underneath. The idea of a flush mounted HU was really starting to appeal to me now, so I removed the wrap, and will go with a lighter wood (Bruyere instead of the walnut), and order up a Janus bezel.

I've always had a problem with the high cost of the Janus Design bezel (appox. $240 shipped to the US), but I did find a what looks to be a German knockoff on eBay for $50. They stole the pics from Janus' website, but the reviews were positive, and for $50 I figured it was worth a shot... sold.

Here's what came in the package for $50:










I really couldn't tell you what was different between this kit, and the one supplied by Janus, but I think this will work. For $50, quite the deal... 

The crease line the the bezel itself needs to go, since my plan is to cover it in "matching" leather, so I thought, why not break out the filler and do it right?



















I went back up to JPM Coachworks to see if they had a leather scrap that might fit, and sure enough, they did! Since it was a scrap, they didn't charge me... great guys.

Here's a piece cut from the much larger scrap, ready to wrap:










Wrapped, and test fitted.

Damn, it's a darn-near perfect match to the 12 y.o. dash leather, what luck... 










Now it's time for the HAVC cutting. By now, I don't even hesitate before cutting into the car, but this part was still a touch nerve-racking... :blush:

Here's the air box marked where I want to cut in red sharpie:










I didn't want to use a rotary tool that would make a mess of things and cover the inside of the air box with plastic-dust, so I thought the hot-knife approach made since here. I don't have one (it's on the list, ), so I improvised with a torch and cheap, exacto-type knife:










It took some time, but the cutting is done, and no mess...










Test fit the kit piece that goes here:










Remove and prep with duct seal. The kit comes with some foam tape, but I've got duct seal, and this is actually what it was made for, ...










...with the metal piece installed, sealed up no problem with the duct seal, yay...










Now I'm ready to finally install my lower dash, and re-install the HU. The mounting is quite secure, much more so than the previous set-up.










Let's see how this is all coming together with the newly covered bezel in place:










Oh yeah, I like this much better! 

I do NOT think that I could have found a better/closer match: 










Daytime. I still have a center console to install...










The wood trim seen here will be replaced with the lighter wood as seen in the door panels.



I also managed to deaden my pillars with duct seal:










...and get these installed, and wire up the mids. Pics coming soon. 

Left to do:

1. Deaden doors, and hook up 8" drivers. 12g Speaker wire has already been run to the doors through the molex connector.

2. Mount amp rack and distribution blocks... connect all wires in truck. Tidy things up back there.

3. Speaker grills for the L8's in the doors.

4. Hook up power and (carefully) turn everything on... :blush:


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I apologize if you already mentioned it here or on the meet thread - are you going to Erin's meet ?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

bertholomey said:


> I apologize if you already mentioned it here or on the meet thread - are you going to Erin's meet ?


Planning on it! Although I started a new job, so it may turn out that I have to work... not sure.

Assuming I do make it, I should be in the tuning stage by that time... _should_, lol


----------



## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

I really like that mod. It looks great.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Sweet! Hopefully you will be.....I didn't get to hear it in Atlanta. Would love to hear and see this car.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Notloudenuf said:


> I really like that mod. It looks great.


Thanks, me too! 



bertholomey said:


> Sweet! Hopefully you will be.....I didn't get to hear it in Atlanta. Would love to hear and see this car.


You didn't miss much by not hearing it at the Atlanta g2g, Jason. It sounded like ass, seriously... 

I really want to go to Erin's next month something fierce, especially since I should be in the tuning stage, and I could use all kinds of help in this department... :blush:
I don't have a work schedule yet, so I'll probably have to mention that I need this day/night off for an event that was planned months in advance... I should be able to put that off... so yeah, planning on being there unless all hell breaks lose and my job is threatened by my not being with them that November day...


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Very Impressive!!!


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Man, you've done a stellar job here. Awesome build log.


----------



## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

Great work on that Pany H/U install! Well detailed and consciously executed!!


----------



## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Wow, very impressive, I love german cars and BMW's I'm sure this will be one a kind


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

wdemetrius1 said:


> Very Impressive!!!





bikinpunk said:


> Man, you've done a stellar job here. Awesome build log.





sydmonster said:


> Great work on that Pany H/U install! Well detailed and consciously executed!!





quickaudi07 said:


> Wow, very impressive, I love german cars and BMW's I'm sure this will be one a kind


Thanks so much for the props, everyone! 

I've been busy lately, but I do hope to finish the install aspect of this build in the next 2 weeks... :blush:


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Where's the rest of the story?!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Sorry everyone, had to take a break for various reasons, but here's a quick update...


Back to the door baffles, fit was finalized, and I went in for the more/less permanent install. Really doesn't look any different, but I did cover the baffles with Duct Seal for a good bit of deadening and mass-loading:



All in all, it made for a nice, stiff, sturdy and secure place to mount the L8s.



Next, I searched for a place to mount a Pure i20 to send music from my iPod to the DSP-Z8 digitally, and settled on the place underneath the armrest.

It was quite tight, and I needed to mod (hack-up) the Pure i20 to get it to fit. Surround it in foam. Done...






...and the armrest simply sits right back on top, and still slides properly. Yay.

And here we see where I installed the remotes for both the DSP-Z8, and the Sub amp (soundstream). Also seen here is the iPod cable coming from the Pure i20, where it can be tucked away out-of-sight when not in use...



It all fits quite nicely. The blue power on light on the SS remote is bright as hell, so it's a good thing I can close it off with the oem slide cover.






OK, while I still need to work on speaker grills for the L8 midbasses, I really want to get this thing hooked up and powered ON!

Some pics of this process...

I realized that my sub amp stuck out a bit too much for the oem door to close, so I cut the back of it off with a Dremel, and when to the hardware store for some aluminum diamond grate material to cover the hole.





The above pic also shows where I have all of the wiring come in. The front group of wires are for the DSP (toslink, remote for amps, wire for in-cabin remote, and RCA's from the HU). The rear cables are speaker cable going to the amps on the amp rack. Also seen are the power for the sub amp, and the sub speaker wire. I'll wire the amps last.

Sub speaker wire, a little overkill with 8 gauge I think, but whatever. The rest of the speaker wire will reside on top of the amp rack about to go in.




Here we see the power for the sub amp going across to the distro box from Knu. I ground away paint for the ground distro's chassis mounting point seen here. The sub amp's ground is grounded to the chassis by the amp (seen in an earlier, iirc) 




Here goes nothing... as I use a transmission jack to mount up the amp rack already assembled (as seen in an earlier pic).



I mounted the whole thing with some pin-in-torx security screws like everything in this build. Shouldn't be any big deal to remove and/or replace an individual amp if needed, as near as I can tell... 

At this point it was time wire up the power and grounds, hold my breath, and power everything on...

Success! I have tunes again! 

Well, not perfect of course, but having anything after nothing is a nice change of pace.

Sounds pretty good, but needs me to:

1) Figure out where my slight, but audible, alt whine is coming from, and fix it.
2) Tune it! Of course, I'll need help in this area... 
3) Finally get around to making the door grills... 

That's it for now. #1 and #3 will get done first, sometime in the near future.
Of course, now that I've come on here to post an update, I'll have to make some more progress here soon.

In the meantime, I'll try to post some more pics of the finished wiring, mostly power and ground for the amps, and a look at the whole rack mounted in place.


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Damn, glad to see your still at it! I've wondered if ya ever got it finished. This thing should be a beast when you get it tuned in, and ill be looking forward to hearing it one of these days!


----------



## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

Your i20 looks just like mine now and we used the same optical cable, are you stalking me? Nice build!


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Good to see you back Tim. Looking real good. I like what you did with the mesh on the amp cover. Looking forward to hearing it when you get it up and running.


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Awesome! I'm interested because I did the same thing to my E39 (albeit not -as- involved). Kudos to you, sir. The a-pillars are stellar.

One word of advice. Once you get the install 100% nailed down, take it to the best shop you can find and pay them to tune it. It'll be the best $300 you can spend IMO. 

Keep up the great work. The pics are awesome.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Tim, great work man. Do you have any plans to attend the NC meet in April? If so, I'm looking forward to hearing this! And if you need help tuning, we can all lend you a hand. 

Keep up the great work dude.


----------



## JORGEFLG (Jan 24, 2014)

subscribed!!


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks guys. I really want to wrap it up, but having a hard time finding the time at the moment. I'll do a little here and there.

I ended up putting the 12v cig adapter power converter (for the i20) in a poor location and broke it. The replacement just arrived, ready for install. Nothing to do with my slight alt whine, but will still be helpful in troubleshooting.
@TheDavel... damn, and I thought I was the only one with a braided optical cable... iirc, I spent too much time looking for one :laugh:
Once I pipe digital audio straight to the DSP, it should eliminate the whine... if the noise stems from the HU or RCA's. If I still have noise, then it's likely to be a ground issue at the amps or DSP. Amps are grounded at the ground distro box. Maybe I need to re-do that chassis ground, we'll see.

I'll post some more pics here, let me know if anyone notices any rookie mistakes 



I'll keep everyone better updated as I finish up these last little bits.

Yeah, I'll need help tuning, hehe... 

I'm really gonna try to hit the NC meet this time, but of course, it all depends on what's going on work-wise...


Anyway, it's a little tricky to get decent pics of the amp wiring now that the rack is installed, but here are a few...

Basically the view after opening the trunk, stepping back a bit:


DSP wiring:



The power and ground distribution blocks all wired and fused. Again, any obvious issues here that may relate to noise, please mention it. Haven't had a chance to do any troubleshooting just yet. 



Well, time to troubleshoot alt whine, and make some door grills...


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Love it man !


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

^^^ thank you sir!

Ok, while doing a little troubleshooting, I came to realize two things...

1) the 12v power adapter (7.5v, 1.2A) I wanted to use to power the i20 is not doing the trick. Don't know why. The red light on the power adapter comes on, but does not power the i20 at all.
I dug up a 200w power inverter and used it in conjunction with the AC adapter... works fine. So I stashed the power inverter under the driver's seat with velcro and ran the two wires (1 to the female cig receptacle, and 1 to power the i20) under the center console out-of-sight. I had already spliced-in a female cig receptacle under the center console.

Initially I'm thinking this is temporary until I find a 12v (7.5v, 1.2A) power adapter that will work with the i20, but the 200w power inverter I'm now using has two 110v plugs, so there's an extra one not being used that could be used to power something else (laptop, etc.), so I may keep it this way.

2) NO ALT WHINE when bypassing the HU (& RCAs) and going straight optical digital from iPod--> Pure i20 --> DSP-Z8 --> amps --> speakers.
SO it appears my alt whine was coming from the HU or RCAs or both. I have a MSD noise filter capacitor that I may put on the alternator try try to take care of that.

So to recap, slight alt whine when listening to CDs. Really only noticeable during quieter sections, but still bugs me.
No alt whine during iPod playback through the i20 and DSP, and sounds fantastic! The levels are much higher than the levels coming from the HU (CD or Aux)... effortless power. Makes me think I need a line driver for the HU.

The DSP gets a digital signal, so the DSP is doing the DAC, and as I said, it sounds absolutely great. I really need to tune it bad. The HU only has Balance and Fader controls, but I still shifted the balance a notch or two to the right so the music sounded a little more balanced, at least until I do some real tuning. Bypassing the HU puts me in basically default even R-L, so the left is obviously louder to the driver. Need to start the time aligning and tuning. I may install the MSD noise cap onto the alternator first though.


Back the L8's in the doors... I managed to ding the passenger side driver and dented the dust cap before I had a chance to make grills 



Grrrr... I know this wont affect the sound of the L8, but still, can't have this.
In the past I've used a vacuum to pop out dented caps, but this one was too big, and the vacuum failed.

Searching the interweb, I came across a way that didn't involve poking a hole, so I tried it.

Take a Q-tip, and cut off the end flat for a larger surface area. 



Then add a couple drops of CA glue, and attach to the middle of the dent.



When dry, pull dent out. Carefully twist and remove Q-tip. Done.



Not perfect, but MUCH better, and something I can live with 

Now I need to get on the ball and make some damn grills!


----------



## rain48 (Mar 17, 2014)

EditTim said:


> ^^^ thank you sir!
> 
> Ok, while doing a little troubleshooting, I came to realize two things...
> 
> ...


The cap can be pulled with a vacuum


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Looking good, buddy!


----------



## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

EditTim said:


> Back the L8's in the doors... I managed to ding the passenger side driver and dented the dust cap before I had a chance to make grills
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He already mentioned that.


----------



## audijay (Mar 18, 2014)

Wow dude sweet work


----------



## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

Great job on the dust cap. Have used a pin in the past to pull out dust caps /tweeters (where vuc can't be used). The hole left is too small to worry about.


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm glad to see this build back on track.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks guys!

Now that I've got the digital signal going straight to the DSP, at higher levels, the system can get quite loud, and in doing so, exposes various rattles I didn't notice before. I have a feeling it's going to take a while to get rid of them. Oh well...


----------



## soundboy (Jun 19, 2009)

Very cool install


----------



## hakmazter (Jul 19, 2013)

If the speaker had a vented pole piece you could have used an air compressor to blow the dust cap back out. Of course, proceed with caution.


----------



## Ruchab91 (Jan 13, 2014)

Hey question are you subs Firing on a slight angle upwards ? was this to fit them in ? or design choice thanks?


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

hakmazter said:


> If the speaker had a vented pole piece you could have used an air compressor to blow the dust cap back out. Of course, proceed with caution.


It does, but man, that would make me quite nervous…  



Ruchab91 said:


> Hey question are you subs Firing on a slight angle upwards ? was this to fit them in ? or design choice thanks?


Yeah, they are at a slight angle upward, but this is due more to space constraints than any design choice. They are at the same angle as the back seat. The 15's would be a bit too tall if they were positioned vertically, as well as take up more room in the trunk. I'm quite pleased with how the trunk came out… I have lot's of room, and my spare tire is in place. Plenty of power coming out of the subs.
I just need to get to some tuning. While the set-up is a huge improvement over what I had before (a night & day difference), TA and EQ are definitely needed, and will really bring it all together.


----------



## Ruchab91 (Jan 13, 2014)

Yea was wondering as I have a 91 e31 and if I recalled correctly the trunk sizes are very similar in height at about 15.5 inches and was gonna try and fit 15s in it only way was angled just wanted to check. Good too hear your happy with your setup . Tuning is half the fun the other half is buying the equipment


----------



## Krisfromtampa (Aug 6, 2012)

Hey Tim you ready to sell me back that cq-tx5500w back to me I really miss her


----------



## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

EditTim said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> Now that I've got the digital signal going straight to the DSP, at higher levels, the system can get quite loud, and in doing so, exposes various rattles I didn't notice before. I have a feeling it's going to take a while to get rid of them. Oh well...


It's like a never ending project. Btw it's a great build 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Awesome build Tim. I'm enjoying seeing your progress.

-Steve


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Krisfromtampa said:


> Hey Tim you ready to sell me back that cq-tx5500w back to me I really miss her


Hehe, you'll be the first to know… 



quickaudi07 said:


> It's like a never ending project. Btw it's a great build


Indeed it is… and thanks!



captainobvious said:


> Awesome build Tim. I'm enjoying seeing your progress.
> 
> -Steve


Thanks Steve 





Well, I really wanted to make it out to Jason's for the NC g2g, and had every intention on doing so, but damn it, life stuff got in the way again… 

I did manage to FINALLY get my mid bass speaker grills made for the doors. They were a bit of a PITA, as I suspected, but I'm pleased with how they came out.

I took all of these ideas from others, particularly Timmay77's M5 build since he documented it so nicely (on the m5board).
The door panels pose a bit of a challenge when fitting a grill, because the bottom edge is (formerly) the lip of a map pocket, so there isn't much to attach to if one wants to make the grill relative flush, or recessed a bit.

Still have some 1/8" birch, so that's what I'm using for the grill frames. I used a cardboard template for the outline.





The above were version 1… :roll eyes:

I wasn't happy with how the lower lip fit on the door panel, so I re-did them. Version 2 below… :blush:

After sanding, an initial fitting, securing small fasteners, and paint. They were ready for a final fitting before being covered in speaker cloth.

Yay, it looks like the lower lip is holding fairly snug.



Time to stretch the "heavy" speaker cloth (from SpeakerWorks) over the frame and secure with CA glue. I pulled it very tight, one could bounce a quarter on it… 



There's no way that the frame will be seen once the grill is in place, but here is the final product before fitting.



Fitted to the driver's door… I think this will work 



Yay, I'm liking how the grill follows the contour of the pocket quite nicely, and reveals the stitching of the leather clearly with covering it up. 



The backside. You can see how that the lower part of the grill just hangs on. It's a good thing that the lip of the pocket angles up as it goes back, just a bit, allowing the grill to rest on it, without pulling through.



Door panel installed. Really pleased with how these came out… 



Door closed (and never mind the messy floor).
Here you can see the 3-way setup relative to each other, with the tweeter (top center), midrange (top right), and mid bass (lower center, of course). The speaker to the left of the air vent is not used (oem mid).



REALLY getting closer now…


----------



## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

I like the grill idea!


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Looks great! Do you have a template for the grill shape? I'd appreciate if you could scan it in, I am getting ready to put 9" midbass in doors and this would save me a ton of time/headache/aggravation.

Thanks.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Mless5 said:


> Looks great! Do you have a template for the grill shape? I'd appreciate if you could scan it in, I am getting ready to put 9" midbass in doors and this would save me a ton of time/headache/aggravation.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I did make up a cardboard template, and I'd be happy to scan it in and send it. I think the whole thing can fit in a 8.5x11 space, so It'd be the right size in a doc with no resizing, I do believe. Of course, I'm at work and working from memory, so we'll see once I have everything in front of me. PM me your email, and when I have a chance (likely tomorrow) I'll send it to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice job Tim! Painted black and covered in black grill cloth, it doesn't matter what it looks like underneath. I think they came out looking great


----------



## Datsubishi (Jan 9, 2012)

Yet another nicely executed detail.


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Looks great!

Is the v2 still double layered? If so, are they the same shape? Also, did you use natural flex of the wood on the corner that sits against the door pull? Seems to be curving in (very nicely so).

Sidenote: I moved my tweeters from stock position(just like your's are) to A pillar firing across at each other and my stage got much deeper and wider.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Mless5 said:


> Looks great!
> 
> Is the v2 still double layered? If so, are they the same shape? Also, did you use natural flex of the wood on the corner that sits against the door pull? Seems to be curving in (very nicely so).
> 
> Sidenote: I moved my tweeters from stock position(just like your's are) to A pillar firing across at each other and my stage got much deeper and wider.



Actually, no not double layered at all, those are both driver's and passenger's sides, cut and sanded together for consistency's sake. 

The birch is nice and stiff, even at 1/8" thickness, and it curves around very nicely without having to do anything special (like getting it wet).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Tim - you comin' to the Atlanta meet on August 8th? 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...4-atlanta-ga-area-meet-official-thread-3.html


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Tim - you comin' to the Atlanta meet on August 8th? 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...4-atlanta-ga-area-meet-official-thread-3.html


----------



## blueatlanta (Feb 10, 2011)

good to see another ATLien doing fine work. You shoudl totally come to Stone Mountain and do my pillars


----------



## blueatlanta (Feb 10, 2011)

oh im not knocking his choice. i just find it ironic.


----------



## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> Tim - you comin' to the Atlanta meet on August 8th?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...4-atlanta-ga-area-meet-official-thread-3.html


Hey Nick, not sure. I'm about to be knee-deep in a work project, and I may be too busy, so it will have to be a day-of decision...



blueatlanta said:


> good to see another ATLien doing fine work. You shoudl totally come to Stone Mountain and do my pillars


hehe, thanks man!


----------

