# Please school me on McIntosh amps...



## Socalsteve (Jun 17, 2014)

Hi all,

Have done a bit of research on the net in regards to McIntosh amps...but, curious as to what the difference is between MC and MCC? Also, is there any other nomenclature to look out for?

Wanting to do a high end system and the McIntosh amps intrigue me as a starting off point...going to use Focal Utopia or Morel speakers...not sure about subs yet.

As always, thank you all in advance,

Steve


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

MC is the older series from the '90's, MCC is the modern series from the 2000's. Any amp with an "M" at the end of the model number signifies it has a power meter (the big blue VU meters that McIntosh is famous for). Amazing amps if you can find them in good condition.


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## Socalsteve (Jun 17, 2014)

Architect7 said:


> MC is the older series from the '90's, MCC is the modern series from the 2000's. Any amp with an "M" at the end of the model number signifies it has a power meter (the big blue VU meters that McIntosh is famous for). Amazing amps if you can find them in good condition.


Thank you for the great information!

Is there a difference in the quality between the 2? The MCC version seems to bring more $$$.. Is there a reason why?

Thank you!

Steve


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Here, this thread seems to cover it pretty well. Good luck, great amps!

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...157820-difference-between-mcc301m-mc443m.html


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## plcrides (Mar 21, 2014)

oh man that big blue VU meter is so damn sexy,i wish i had one on my head unit.and in my house,and bed room and if i was really arrogant the garage.nooo you didn't just say that. haha I've always liked them.do a build log for us please.lots of pictures.


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## Socalsteve (Jun 17, 2014)

Architect7 said:


> Here, this thread seems to cover it pretty well. Good luck, great amps!
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...157820-difference-between-mcc301m-mc443m.html


I read the whole thread and came away with "huh"??? Way too technical for a noob like me to understand.

Is one "better" than the other and if so, why? Why do the newer MMC versions fetch more $$ than the MC versions?

Inquiring minds wanna know!

Thank you,

Steve


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Socalsteve said:


> I read the whole thread and came away with "huh"??? Way too technical for a noob like me to understand.
> 
> Is one "better" than the other and if so, why? Why do the newer MMC versions fetch more $$ than the MC versions?
> 
> ...


Basically he is describing how McIntosh used different solutions to accomplish roughly the same goals with each series. You will get excellent performance with the MC series at a lower cost but be aware that with age brings wear on components that heat up and parts are getting harder to find for these. If it were me, I'd still look for MC series and build a "repair trust fund" in case one goes up in smoke.

The MCC series fetch high prices since they are newer and typically in better condition. But if you can find an MC amp in good condition for a good price, I say go for it.


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## plcrides (Mar 21, 2014)

i actually found some on craigslist just now.lol


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

plcrides said:


> i actually found some on craigslist just now.lol


Please share!


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Wait something weird here. I have the 1st series of Mcintosh amps and they are MCC. I thought MC is home line and MCC is car line of amplifiers. 

Anyway great amps, be hard pressed to find better built amps anywhere in the world. Mine will be 20 years old next year and my MCC 403 has been running 1 ohm load the entire time.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

RNBRAD said:


> Wait something weird here. I have the 1st series of Mcintosh amps and they are MCC. I thought MC is home line and MCC is car line of amplifiers.
> 
> Anyway great amps, be hard pressed to find better built amps anywhere in the world. Mine will be 20 years old next year and my MCC 403 has been running 1 ohm load the entire time.


Have any pictures? That does seem very strange. I am pretty sure the 427 and 443 are not MCC models. And I've never heard of a 403.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Architect7 said:


> Have any pictures? That does seem very strange. I am pretty sure the 427 and 443 are not MCC models. And I've never heard of a 403.


403 was a typo meaning 443, here's my MCC427. I've never heard of car model amps being referred to as "MC" as that's the home amp line. MCC has always been the car amp line.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

RNBRAD said:


> 403 was a typo meaning 443, here's my MCC427. I've never heard of car model amps being referred to as "MC" as that's the home amp line. MCC has always been the car amp line.


Do you have pictures of the model number on your amps? I am really thinking yours are MC. . Even your filename for that photo says "MC427" lol.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

I need to find my owners manual. I've just never heard of any McIntosh car amps as just MC but that doesn't mean anything. If they changed to the MCC they must of done it with the old models very early on cause there are plenty of them designated MCC, all old school blue models. Maybe they changed after they found out model # issues between home and car? If their car amps were ever MC must of been their very first series. I'm out of town till the 27th or I'd check.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Here is a link to the older Mac models.
All the ones I own are the MC series.

McIntosh Car Audio


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Yep mine is an MC, had my wife check, was driving me nuts. Best I can tell it was changed after the 1st 94-97 series. 98 and up all MCC. It's on the glass of my amp like all of them. :laugh: so maybe I just assumed they were all MCC since they been like that for so long, I dunno. 

Can't go wrong either way, just not real sure the differences. I know some things changed with the black models. I just wish they would make a class D tho cause their amps are very inefficient but likely the cleanest most transparent amps made. They are all rated at .005 cause that's as low as McIntosh's bench test equipment goes to. They are actually around 5x better than that, around .0009 to .001. That's why they can claim a .005% distortion at any power from 25 milliwatt to rated power all at 12 volts too. 105-120 s/n ratio. Not that's stats mean everything but probably the best in the business.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Okay whew, that makes way more sense now. In the link I provided above ATOMICTECH62 actually explains how McIntosh reached such low THD using a Sanyo output stage as a predriver. So a 60w device is used for less than .1 watt meaning it operates wayyyyyy below rated THD plus extra isolation from other components on the board. Pretty cool stuff.

Here's a link directly to the post:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2017258-post4.html


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

There are three series of McIntosh car amps not counting the ultra rare first model MC430.

(*MC* series 1) Meters on some models. MC420, MC420M, MC423, MC425, MC427, MC431, MC431M, MC443, MC443M, MC440, MC440M, MC4000M

(*MCC* series 2) Lexan top. No glass and no meters available. MCC82, MCC222, MCC444, MCC446

(*MCC* series 3) Meters on some models. MCC204, MCC301M, MCC302, MCC404, MCC404M, MCC406M, MCC602TM


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

These amps used fetch a pretty hefty price, even the oldest ones. It's just hard finding them that aren't beat to crap. I don't understand why people let their amps, especially these get in such bad shape. Mine are still pristine at 19 y/o and I have used and abused my 443 at 1 ohm. Only other equipment that has lasted is my Audio Control epicenter and esp-2, both 20 and never opened. None of any of my other OS gear has come close to these amps. You not only get performance but longevity.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

I had a MCC446 that had a metal top with a sticker on it that look like it was a glass top.I I thought it was a thin glass piece until I took it off.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

plcrides said:


> oh man that big blue VU meter is so damn sexy,i wish i had one on my head unit.and in my house,and bed room and if i was really arrogant the garage.nooo you didn't just say that. haha I've always liked them.do a build log for us please.lots of pictures.


 You can have meters like that without buying mac amps.


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## mediumroast (Apr 18, 2011)

Steve, I couldn't really understand that technical thread either! Lol.

I've owned about a dozen Mac amps previously with and without VU meters. MC420, MC423, MC427, MC431, MC440, MCC404M, MCC406. 

The only difference I can hear is the the newer MCC series amps are more dynamic throughout the entire frequency range. Has tighter bass drive and kinda makes my speakers sound more like prosound drivers - more lively. The older MC series sounds very similar but more mellow and laid back sound. Smoother. My favourite is the MC431 but I would love to try the MC4000 & MCC602TM.

Cheers


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## Socalsteve (Jun 17, 2014)

First off, thank you all for taking the time to respond, great info here!!!

I have a couple (more) noob questions, please.

1.) Are they less efficient (power consumption wise) than modern amps?

2.) And, if they are, do the tend to have the capability of generating engine noise into the system where a more modern, more efficient amp wouldn't?

3.) Hard to tel from pictures, but are they larger than modern amps and do they require any kind of special placements or ventilation that a modern amp wouldn't require?

4.) They are such works of art and are truly a piece of history (when America, with American hands and American ingenuity, made an amazing product)....if I bought some of them and hung them on a wall in my home, would anyone care?

Again, thank you all in advance!

Steve


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Socalsteve said:


> First off, thank you all for taking the time to respond, great info here!!!
> 
> I have a couple (more) noob questions, please.
> 
> ...


Class Ab is about 40 to 50% efficiency in comparison to 80 and up % of D class, less power generates head more power to music.
macs have fans for cooling, no special placement required. 
I would not place working mac as wall art, it`s wasteful. it`s your amp you can do whatever you want with any of your property.


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

I like Blue


Chuck


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## Socalsteve (Jun 17, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Class Ab is about 40 to 50% efficiency in comparison to 80 and up % of D class, less power generates head more power to music.
> macs have fans for cooling, no special placement required.
> I would not place working mac as wall art, it`s wasteful. it`s your amp you can do whatever you want with any of your property.


I'm so sorry, this assumes that I know what Class the McIntosh amps are in. Are they A/B or D? And, if they are less efficient, what does that mean in real world terms if I do install them in my 911? Will they possibly generate engine whine or other issues that I would not neccesarily have with a more modern amp?

As for hanging them on a wall, I was making a joke of sorts and a huge compliment to McIntosh, wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I have original French deco advertising posters from the 20's and 30's on most of my walls at home, not car amps.

Again, thank you for explaining simpler to this noobie.

Steve


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Efficiency wise, probably comparable to any class A/B amplifier. If you consider class D as modern, then no a McIntosh is probably around 25-30% less efficient than a standard class D amp. As for noise rejection capabilities, as good as anything ever made. They are a little larger and heavier than most amps and mainly because of the built in heat management system with forced air cooling. They are probably better suited for less conventional mounting options as far as cooling goes as long as they can flow cool air through them. They don't rely on heat sinks and air running over the surface for cooling. In my truck center seat above, I bring in cool air from behind the seat and flow it out the front, so the amp is completely enclosed but stays cool. You would be hard pressed to mount it like I did with a conventional amp even with fans running as the heat sinks would be blocked from air circulation. My previous Alpine I had to remove the bottom plate and flow air through the circuitry to keep it cool. I've never had thermal protection kick on so it works well. The variable speed fans can move some air.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Socalsteve said:


> I'm so sorry, this assumes that I know what Class the McIntosh amps are in. Are they A/B or D? And, if they are less efficient, what does that mean in real world terms if I do install them in my 911? Will they possibly generate engine whine or other issues that I would not neccesarily have with a more modern amp?
> 
> As for hanging them on a wall, I was making a joke of sorts and a huge compliment to McIntosh, wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I have original French deco advertising posters from the 20's and 30's on most of my walls at home, not car amps.
> 
> ...


 power supply rejects noise, amplifier class has nothing to do with it.
Every mac ever made for car use is class AB. 
mac power supplies made very well, no noise to speak off.
many modern amps made like **** in comparison.
you would not be first hanging macs on the wall. While i admire their design and craftsmanship, last century French Art deco wins as wall decoration anyway. pictures?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

All I have to say about McIntosh is if someone needed someone wacked and were to give me an MC4000M then I would take the job. 

Just look at that beauty. *drools*


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

MAc porn, I like it.


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## Green (Dec 20, 2010)

Don't want to thread jack but what about the internal eq that people install in these with the controller? And if I were to buy one without the controller will it still sound good?


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Yes, they will sound great without it.


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## Green (Dec 20, 2010)

Can I still bypass the eq without the controller?


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Here's A thread on Mac EQ modules.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/152360-new-mcintosh-amp-owner.html


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## TallTexan (Dec 14, 2007)

I scrounged 4 of those little hard drive jumpers (from some old IDE drives) and used them to bypass my MC440's EQ (per the above linked thread). Worked like a charm.


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## Duckstu (Feb 13, 2014)

MACS said:


> There are three series of McIntosh car amps not counting the ultra rare first model MC430.
> 
> (*MC* series 1) Meters on some models. MC420, MC420M, MC423, MC425, MC427, MC431, MC431M, MC443, MC443M, MC440, MC440M, MC4000M
> 
> ...



Is there perhaps a number of varients within the Series 1 line? (Not official,.. but sort of?)

I ask because the MC420 came with a couple different top panels,.. and the MC425 and MC427 have trim panels just about like the Series 2's.

Series 1 MC420 (50x4) With thick glass.









Series 1 MC420 (50x4) with metal encased thick glass.









Series 1 MC427 (100 x 2)









Series 2 amp, MCC222 (110 x 2) Thin Lexan glued to a metal panel.









Series 3 amp MCC204 (50 x 4)


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## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Duckstu said:


> Is there perhaps a number of varients within the Series 1 line? (Not official,.. but sort of?)
> 
> I ask because the MC420 came with a couple different top panels,.. and the MC425 and MC427 have trim panels just about like the Series 2's.


The (series 1, non-metered and metered) MC420, MC431, MC440, MC443 amps had two variations. The earliest amps had thick beveled edge glass with no metal frame. 
The later amps had thin flat glass with a metal frame. It looks thick, but it is in fact very thin glass.

The (series 1) MC423, MC425, MC427, MC4000M only came with thin flat glass and metal frame.


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## Carlton8000 (Feb 5, 2011)

If anyone knows where I could find a MC430, I know its very rare, please PM me.


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## RC-NUT (Jan 19, 2013)

I ran (2) MC427 amps for years. I had minor issues like fans dying and blown resistors but overall they were awesome. I bought them in 1997 and sold them in 2007. The sound was warm and the power was decent. 

This was in my 2005 Legacy GT.


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