# Need a little help with DIY computer sound.



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

For better or worse, my computer has become my main entertainment system (for watching movies, YouTube, and listening to music), and I want to improve on the sound I've been getting.

My question is: What are my options for connecting my computer to my amp (actually, two or more amps)? 

I've got HDMI from the computer to the TV, and from the TV's 1/8" headphone jack (via RCA adaptor cable and Y-splitters) to two (or more) amps (one amp for a pair of mids, tweets & passives, and one (or more) amp(s) for two (or more) 8" subs. 

I assume I'll need some sort of DAC. My computer doesn't have optical out, but my TV does, and I have no idea if it would be better to run a DAC from the computer's USB, or from the TVs optical output (I know almost nothing about DACs in general, so I would appreciate any suggestions regarding their purchase and use).

Also, I'm very interested in DSP, but I've only read a little about the miniDSP. But mainly I'm wondering if there might be any good (and free?) computer software that would provide DSP and/or nice EQ (without buying another piece of equipment); or barring that, might there be a DSP that would also serve as a DAC (i.e. kill two birds with one stone)? Any suggestions?

Budget? Of course, I'd like to spend as little as possible, but I suppose I could swing as much as $300 if I really had to.


----------



## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Right now I run a cheap Amazon mini BT amp powering a small pair of JBL 3.5 bookshelf's, I swap the 3.5 out as the ones in the cabinets were blown so I got them for a song ? I love it! No problem filling the living area of the condo with great sound! I use BT for connection but 3.5 works well. I'll add a powered sub one day. For the sub I'll go pass through to keep it easy. Only thing that sucks is you have to adjust sub volume separately. 

Most audio play back programs have a decent built in Eq. Or you can use a 2x4 dsp to get really crazy. Even with the dsp you could just go 3.5 > rca > dsp

This is the amp I use. DROK® Mini 30W+30W Dual Channel Bluetooth 3.0 Stereo Amplifier Wireless Digital HiFi Audio Receiver TPA3110 2.0 DC12-24V AMP Module+DC12V 5A USA T https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B013AIAXPA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_ziluMIGiZQ5aH











Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I`d use pro grade external usb audio interface. 
There is ****load of pro audio software that can be used with VST plugins for processing.

That unless your computer has pci-e so you can use audio interface with about zero latency. but that would be above your budget projections. Almost unlimited possibilities but quite pricey.


----------



## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

I think you're asking how to directly connect your computer to your two amplifiers. Is that right?

If so, does your motherboard have built-in multi-channel audio? If it supports 5.1 or 7.1 audio output from 1/8" jacks then you can use those 6 or 8 channels as your analog outputs to the amplifiers. That will be your DAC, and modern motherboard audio chips are much better than people give them credit for. If you get caught up on DACs and how they "sound" then you'll spend a thousand dollars before you realize it. Don't get caught up in all that.

Or grab an inexpensive internal or external sound card with the connections you need. A 7.1 analog output sound card is cheap these days and the performance is great. Almost anything will do, but if you can get one that supports ASIO drivers then it might be a little better in terms of the next step.

For DSP, you could also keep it simple and use one of many software-based solutions that wedge themselves between your operating system's sound output and the sound card input. The carPC folks do this for all their projects and the flexibility is limitless. You will loose a tiny bit of performance from the processing required though, but for a simple setup like yours it shouldn't be much. Look for something called a VST host, and the VST plug-ins that go with it. You use the host kind of like a MiniDSP 6to8, and you use the plugins like processor lego bricks to tell the host how to manipulate the audio before it leaves the sound card.

I think there's a carPC subforum in here somewhere that might be useful for this project.


----------



## lyraxx (Feb 5, 2017)

you might need some in-person guidance.


----------



## The Great Gazoo (Aug 26, 2016)

I have my PC running through a Creative ZxR soundcard running into a Logitech Z906 speaker/sound system. I'm partial to Burr-Brown DACs like the ZxR has but that is probably just in my head. If I run the HDMI sound through my TV back into the Z906 I seem to not like it as much. I usually watch movies through my computer rather than through my Kodi Raspberry Pi3 for that reason.


----------



## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

You have a Huge amount of options now days.. I have been running a media center PC for 10+ years, and the options back them were pretty limited.

Now days, you can spend very little and have a system with tons of capability..

First questions, what kind of computer do you have?(laptop, mini, full size, windows??)

do you stream your video/music or is it local.

What outputs are available on said computer for audio, etc.

Are you already set on Amplifiers/speaker set up? 


Personally, I did away with my Media PC, I use a Roku 4k for all my video streaming and a Volumio Media server for all of the music playback. Both of these into a Yamaha Receiver w/5.1 speakers. You would need a NAS to store your media with this config..


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Jazzi said:


> I think you're asking how to directly connect your computer to your two amplifiers. Is that right?
> If so, does your motherboard have built-in multi-channel audio? If it supports 5.1 or 7.1 audio output from 1/8" jacks then you can use those 6 or 8 channels as your analog outputs to the amplifiers. That will be your DAC, and modern motherboard audio chips are much better than people give them credit for. If you get caught up on DACs and how they "sound" then you'll spend a thousand dollars before you realize it. Don't get caught up in all that.
> 
> Or grab an inexpensive internal or external sound card with the connections you need. A 7.1 analog output sound card is cheap these days and the performance is great. Almost anything will do, but if you can get one that supports ASIO drivers then it might be a little better in terms of the next step.
> ...


Thank you, Jazzi!

You're exactly right. I've been using the 1/8" headphone jack of either the computer or TV to feed the amps via an 1/8"-to-RCA cable and Y-splitters.

I have the set of six colored (gray/black/orange/pink/green/blue) audio output jacks (with their inscrutable symbols). I've never used them, having assumed I'd need some sort of integrated surround system that had a corresponding number of same-colored 1/8" cables. However, having just googled this, it seems that I could use the green one for my "front" amp, and the orange one for my sub amp. If so, is it likely that these colored outputs would sound better than the usual black headphone jack on a tower's front panel (in case it matters, mine is a Dell XPS 8700)? If so, then I'll quite happily take your advise and save my money. 

I looked around a bit last night on the carPC forum, but I got lost in jargon, and also thought I might be barking up the wrong tree. However, if all I need is software (if I don't need DAC and/or DSP hardware) it should be that much easier to sift through my options. BTW, you mentioned: "You will loose a tiny bit of performance from the processing required..." Is this in terms of slowing my computer down, or in terms of sound quality (or?)?

Thanks again for all your great feedback, Jazzi!


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

felix509 said:


> You have a Huge amount of options now days.. I have been running a media center PC for 10+ years, and the options back them were pretty limited.
> 
> Now days, you can spend very little and have a system with tons of capability..
> 
> ...


Great questions, felix509! Thank you!

I have a Dell XPS 8700 tower with Windows 10. 

Content is local, but I suppose I might stream in future, either with or without my Roku enabled (non-4K) TCL (brand) TV.

I have the (standard?) gray/black/orange/pink/green/blue audio outputs.

I am all-set with (DIY) speakers and (off-the shelf) amps. 

Note: I'm only running the two "fronts" and subs (2.1).

I look forward to any suggestions you may have!


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

The Great Gazoo said:


> I have my PC running through a Creative ZxR soundcard running into a Logitech Z906 speaker/sound system. I'm partial to Burr-Brown DACs like the ZxR has but that is probably just in my head. If I run the HDMI sound through my TV back into the Z906 I seem to not like it as much. I usually watch movies through my computer rather than through my Kodi Raspberry Pi3 for that reason.


Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> I`d use pro grade external usb audio interface.
> There is ****load of pro audio software that can be used with VST plugins for processing.
> 
> That unless your computer has pci-e so you can use audio interface with about zero latency. but that would be above your budget projections. Almost unlimited possibilities but quite pricey.


Thanks!

At your recommendation I googled "pro grade external USB audio interface," and looked at some of the results. These are used for recording, but may also be used for playback (and are reasonably inexpensive/widely available - and a good option for those reasons?)?


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Grinder said:


> Thanks!
> 
> At your recommendation I googled "pro grade external USB audio interface," and looked at some of the results. These are used for recording, but may also be used for playback (and are reasonably inexpensive/widely available - and a good option for those reasons?)?


 you can use anything from 2 to 16 outputs with software commutation.
you can make active system directing frequencies range to appropriate channels. ASIO drivers is a must for whatever operating system you use.


If you have, time,desire and money results can blow your mind.


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

street.terror said:


> Right now I run a cheap Amazon mini BT amp powering a small pair of JBL 3.5 bookshelf's, I swap the 3.5 out as the ones in the cabinets were blown so I got them for a song ? I love it! No problem filling the living area of the condo with great sound! I use BT for connection but 3.5 works well. I'll add a powered sub one day. For the sub I'll go pass through to keep it easy. Only thing that sucks is you have to adjust sub volume separately.
> 
> Most audio play back programs have a decent built in Eq. Or you can use a 2x4 dsp to get really crazy. Even with the dsp you could just go 3.5 > rca > dsp
> 
> ...


Nice, clean setup! 

Thanks for all the great feedback!


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> you can use anything from 2 to 16 outputs with software commutation.
> you can make active system directing frequencies range to appropriate channels. ASIO drivers is a must for whatever operating system you use.
> 
> 
> If you have, time,desire and money results can blow your mind.


That's good to know (though I'm not sure how much of it understand, and my expectations, knowledge and budget all are rather modest).


----------



## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

No loudspeakers are ideal. Look at the software solutions which are able to correct their rta with the help of vst-plugins or convolver. Such as foobar2000, dePhonica, Viper4Android etc. Remember a good extern sound card will help you a lot, if you use laptop. 
I use correction files for every pairs of loudspeakers and headphones at home, and it have raised the sound quality to much higher level. 
When streaming - use BT with Aptx. For WiFi streaming I use Chromecast audio. 96/24 guarrantied with the toslink output to the existing stereo system. 

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


----------



## grinkeeper (Jun 26, 2015)

speaking of computer speakers , check these out... folded horns 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/assembled-speakers/fostex-bk-40h-horn-pair/


----------



## grinkeeper (Jun 26, 2015)

speaking of computer speakers , check these out... folded horns 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/assembled-speakers/fostex-bk-40h-horn-pair/


----------



## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Funny I was just looking at a home built folded horn using Fostex FE83

But those great as well! I never thought Id see a folded horn sitting on a desk beside a laptop ha

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Grinder said:


> ..............
> 
> I have the set of six colored (gray/black/orange/pink/green/blue) audio output jacks (with their inscrutable symbols). I've never used them, having assumed I'd need some sort of integrated surround system that had a corresponding number of same-colored 1/8" cables. However, having just googled this, it seems that I could use the green one for my "front" amp, and the orange one for my sub amp. If so, is it likely that these colored outputs would sound better than the usual black headphone jack on a tower's front panel (in case it matters, mine is a Dell XPS 8700)? If so, then I'll quite happily take your advise and save my money.


The black headphone jack on the front of your computer is likely driven by very similar electronics as the multi colored jacks on the rear of your motherboard. Some people would argue a dedicated headphone amplifier with a built in DAC is the only way to go, but again, you'll spend a bunch of money going down that path for something that you may or may not notice a difference in. I would worry about that later, if ever.



Grinder said:


> I looked around a bit last night on the carPC forum, but I got lost in jargon, and also thought I might be barking up the wrong tree. However, if all I need is software (if I don't need DAC and/or DSP hardware) it should be that much easier to sift through my options. BTW, you mentioned: "You will loose a tiny bit of performance from the processing required..." Is this in terms of slowing my computer down, or in terms of sound quality (or?)?


Well, you still need a dac and dsp software. I was trying to show you that you have dacs on your motherboard already that feed the multi-colored jacks in the rear (and your headphone jack on the front since you mentioned it).

The dsp software you need can be in many forms but a VST host and a combination of VST plugins (there are plenty free and inexpensive ones to accomplish your goals) is what you could start with if you want to try a software solution without spending a bunch of money on a hardware solution.

The performance hit I mentioned will be in terms of your computer processor having to do DSP work all the time, so depending on how sophisticated you get with your VST plugins you may or may not notice it. The sound quality will not suffer from this.

It is easy to get lost in the terminology of carPCs and home recording studios and whatnot. Just focus on the VST host and the plugins. Something like these two pages might be a place to start:

Free VST Host Application Roundup! - Bedroom Producers Blog

Free VST Plugins! - Bedroom Producers Blog


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Great post Jazzi!

As of computing power any intel CPU made in the last 5 years will do just fine. aside from celeron family. I`d also stay away from designated mobile processors.


----------



## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

You can keep it very simple or you can go crazy and make a tech marvel of a system.

It is possible the Realtek HDaudio driver already has a 2.1 output built in. All you would need are some 3.5mm to RCA adapters.

On the complicated side, I used VSTHost with an Echo Layla sound card in my car for many years. EQ and Xovers via VST plug-ins.(Allocator) That was a PITA but in the end it was well worth it as it was before DSPs that were made for the car.. There are so many more possibilities now especially for a home computer....

The thing i would suggest is utilizing JRiver Mediacenter.. It is ~$50 and has the ability to use plug ins.(Xovers, EQ, etc) It also has a Convolver that can use Room EQ Wizard filters. Pair this with a decent sound card and you have tons of options.......

JRiver Mediacenter


----------



## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Will JRiver Mediacenter process all outgoing sound, for example games or youtube videos? Or will it only process the media it is playing?


----------



## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

Youtube is available in JRiver Mediacenter.. 

Games?? Of course anything outside the software will not utilize the JRiver DSP.. Didn't see games as a requirement.. 

It is just a suggestion, one of 1000 ways a system can be set up..



Jazzi said:


> Will JRiver Mediacenter process all outgoing sound, for example games or youtube videos? Or will it only process the media it is playing?


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

grinkeeper said:


> speaking of computer speakers , check these out... folded horns
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/assembled-speakers/fostex-bk-40h-horn-pair/


Very cool! And according to their specs, these little guys (with their itsy-bitsy 1.57" drivers) go down to 100Hz!

And while I was there, I saw these little beauties (but sadly there were no frequency range specs), not that I'm in the market for speakers: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...00-bh-4-full-range-back-loaded-horn-kit-pair/


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

street.terror said:


> Funny I was just looking at a home built folded horn using Fostex FE83
> 
> But those great as well! *I never thought Id see a folded horn sitting on a desk beside a laptop* ha
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


:rimshot:


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Jazzi said:


> The black headphone jack on the front of your computer is likely driven by very similar electronics as the multi colored jacks on the rear of your motherboard. Some people would argue a dedicated headphone amplifier with a built in DAC is the only way to go, but again, you'll spend a bunch of money going down that path for something that you may or may not notice a difference in. I would worry about that later, if ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More absolutely fantastic stuff, Jazzi!!!

And once again, I really appreciate your great advice! 

I'm going to go with the onboard DAC, and I'll also try a VST host and some plugins (very cool stuff! Looks like I could even mess around with _making_ music too!), once I've built my cabs (for the time being I'm using my cheesy one-piece test-mule cabinet - but having just switched from a hissy (and noisy?) 4-channel Class D amp, to a nice Class A/B 2-channel amp (for the mids & tweets), and a proper mono sub amp (for the one and lonely sub), my overall sound quality has already improved immensely!), and I can begin actual critical listening.


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> Great post Jazzi!
> 
> As of computing power any intel CPU made in the last 5 years will do just fine. aside from celeron family. I`d also stay away from designated mobile processors.


Thank you for that, Victor!


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

felix509 said:


> You can keep it very simple or you can go crazy and make a tech marvel of a system.
> 
> It is possible the Realtek HDaudio driver already has a 2.1 output built in. All you would need are some 3.5mm to RCA adapters.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Felix509!

I only had time to take a quick look, but JRiver Mediacenter looks pretty cool (I've just been using VLC ...for many years).


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Grinder said:


> Thank you for that, Victor!


Topic is extremely interesting, once you dive in you`ll stick there for a while.

Some years back I build a few very powerful DAWs. Helping building another one remotely overseas right now.


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> Topic is extremely interesting, once you dive in you`ll stick there for a while.
> 
> Some years back I build a few very powerful DAWs. Helping building another one remotely overseas right now.


Absolutely, and I've only just begun to get my feet wet (and I'm learning all these wonderful new acronyms, like DAW and VST, etc.)!


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Grinder said:


> Absolutely, and I've only just begun to get my feet wet (and I'm learning all these wonderful new acronyms, like DAW and VST, etc.)!


Patience. and a lot of time. You`ll get there in time.


----------



## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Vst plugins for foobar2000 was my way for better sound from the computer. 

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


----------



## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Vlc is extremely good and handy mediaplayer edpecially for videos due to almost unlimited list of supported formats. But for music reproduction foobar gives more opportunities. Good thing is both are free. 

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Alextaastrup said:


> Vst plugins for foobar2000 was my way for better sound from the computer.
> 
> Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


Thank you, I'll check that out too!


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Alextaastrup said:


> Vlc is extremely good and handy mediaplayer edpecially for videos due to almost unlimited list of supported formats. But for music reproduction foobar gives more opportunities. Good thing is both are free.
> 
> Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


Yeah, VLC is great! I tend to play more video files than audio files, and I suppose I'm happy enough to "listen" to videos as-is, with the possible exception of musical performances and music-themed movies and documentaries (and the like). I haven't looked into all of this enough (i.e. all of the wonderful suggestions in this thread) to be sure whether or not there might be any single option that would allow processing of _all_ sound coming from a computer (i.e. music & video files, streaming, games, etc., etc., etc. For all I know, this might be a stupid question...), but if there were such a thing, that would seem to be my best option. Any thoughts?

Thanks again, for the great feedback!


----------



## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Before using room correction, I would recommend to correct the output of loudspeakers. Improvement typically is rather significant. Correction of headphones is another option - not to forget. Correction files are then to be used in convolvers and/or vst engine. 

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Alextaastrup said:


> Before using room correction, I would recommend to correct the output of loudspeakers. Improvement typically is rather significant. Correction of headphones is another option - not to forget. Correction files are then to be used in convolvers and/or vst engine.
> 
> Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


Thank you.

I hadn't even considered "room correction." If it were possible, what I'd like would be a virtual (software, not hardware) parametric EQ that would process all of the sound coming from my computer. Might this be what you mean by, "Correction files are then to be used in convolvers and/or vst engine."? I apologize that these terms are brand new to me...


----------



## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

I dont know if you can get it to work on A computer but I have this onkyo app for my phone with an insanely adjustable peq. It's pretty neat. 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

Options are a plenty.. There is one way that is crazy simple..

If you are not stuck on the amps you have you could just get a full A/V receiver.. They are really cheap compared to a few years ago and you have room to expand into surround/center at a later date. They have so many features, even the entry level.. 

Run the HDMI from your computer, everything from your computer gets amplified.. Run the Receivers HDMI Monitor out to your TV, DONE.. and you get a remote! They have pre outs for your Sub/amp

a couple examples.. _I have used Yamaha for many many moons.. _

Yamaha for $179

Denon for $229


----------



## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Try TP read about REW measuring program at the first turn. It has many features to measure and improve sound in your room. Apl technology can do more, but it is not free as REW. 

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

felix509 said:


> Options are a plenty.. There is one way that is crazy simple..
> 
> If you are not stuck on the amps you have you could just get a full A/V receiver.. They are really cheap compared to a few years ago and you have room to expand into surround/center at a later date. They have so many features, even the entry level..
> 
> ...


Thank you! Those are great suggestions. It's just that, for various reasons (it's a long story), I am committed to bi-amped DIY speakers. I already have all of the materials, drivers and amps for this project (and no other use for all this stuff), and I have been really wanting to build such a project for some time now (what can I say, I'm a DIY junkie!)

But it's great to see how much the prices have come down on A/V receivers. I paid around $900 for my THX Kenwood KR-X1000 back in the early '90s (purchased to run my horns), and it still works great (except for the funky volume knob).


----------



## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Alextaastrup said:


> Try TP read about REW measuring program at the first turn. It has many features to measure and improve sound in your room. Apl technology can do more, but it is not free as REW.
> 
> Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


Again, I apologize that these terms are brand new to me (and that I have no idea what "TP" and "REW" and "Apl technology" means). 

And as I stated earlier, I hadn't even considered "room correction" (and I am still not at all interested in measuring/improving the sound of my room).




> Before using room correction, I would recommend to *correct the output of loudspeakers*. Improvement typically is rather significant.


I agree! This is exactly what I want to do! 


> If it were possible, what I'd like would be a virtual (software, not hardware) parametric EQ that would process all of the sound coming from my computer.


----------



## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

TP was simply an error. I ment to. Sorry. REW - room equalisation wizard. Google it! Just need a microfon to it. APL - read on the Acoustic Power Lab web site.

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk


----------

