# DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries



## avanti1960

Installed it on Saturday Feb. 18th. 

Biggest discoveries after a couple of days to listen-

1) The quality of the sub bass is as good as I could ever want and matches exactly my preference for excellent subwoofer bass. It sounds so much deeper, tighter, fuller, more accurate and correct than my previous head unit (Pioneer DEH-P8300UB). I didn' change the amp, the gains, nothing. Just the headunit and one complete auto tune session with custom network. 
I don't know where the credit should go but I have to believe the ultra steep cutoff slope at the crossover provided by the units processing (80Hz, 36db per octave) has really tightened it up immensely. This improvement leaves me unbelievably impressed. This head unit all at once made my subwoofer and amp that much better. 

2) Just one auto EQ yields much better sound, stage, accuracy, centering, clarity etc. than the best tune I could achieve with several months owning my old head unit.

3) I ditched the auto time alignment. It seriously detracted from the sound. I will revisit some form of manual TA as time allows- but with former head units I never found it to be a plus. 

4) Biggest so far- the clarity of the sound allows the volume to be turned up significantly louder without fatigue or harshness! Again, no change in amp or gain settings- the ultra clean signal this source unit puts out lets me really really crank the volume much more than my old head unit. 
This tells me that a "good" head unit with decent specs is not all it is cracked up to be- and that specs do not tell the whole story. I thought my old deck was a decent sounding CD player and pre-amp, it had great SN specs, had a 24 bit DAC, etc. just that it didn't have audiophile features like parametric EQ, time alignment, etc. It had 5 channels, adjustable high and low pass filters, subwoofer level, etc. 
The DEX 99-PRS literally blows the old head unit out of the water- it made my amp and speakers so much better and louder! 
It is really unbelievable and a bonus that I was not expecting.


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## jcollin76

Nice write up, you'll have to keep adding to it once you get it dialed in even more.
They are sexy aren't they.


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## Yuck.

You didn't find the 36db per octave slope a little cold? I had previously had a 800prs, and I had the sub stage on 30db, but 36 on the p99 is so precise it takes a bit too much warmth out for my liking. I cranked it back to 24 at all points except the the tweeter low pass, which is set at 36db. That makes such a huge difference and reels in a lot of the harshness that comes with some tweeters natural top end roll off.

Does the auto EQ effect any X-over network settings?


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## jcollin76

No, not if you set custom network, it only does eq and TA. You can set all your x-overs and slopes prior to using it.


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## avanti1960

Yuck. said:


> You didn't find the 36db per octave slope a little cold? I had previously had a 800prs, and I had the sub stage on 30db, but 36 on the p99 is so precise it takes a bit too much warmth out for my liking. I cranked it back to 24 at all points except the the tweeter low pass, which is set at 36db. That makes such a huge difference and reels in a lot of the harshness that comes with some tweeters natural top end roll off.


yeah I'm starting to notice this- especially with my Focal tweeters- but the bass sounds so good! 

i plan to attempt to fix this when i'm able to get some quality tuning time in- hopefully by adjusting the 80hz+ EQ range / slope settings etc. for the mid bass drivers. 
-

does anyone have the HD radio module with the DEX? I would like to know if it allows the DEX to display the RDS info like my old HU did. 
-
i did notice some weird things in the auto tune settings-
the time alignment modes all drastically lower the subwoofer output level. I bumped up the SW level and the TA actually sounds much better- such a wide stage, it really is nice although I have more work to do.

autotune also reversed the phase of the subwoofer. it sounds great so I'm leaving it this way for now. 

-
with such a clean signal output as mentioned in the first post above, allowing the volume to be much higher and less fatiguing than my old "decent" head unit despite its reputable specs and the same amp / gain settings, i would speculate that this DEX unit offers a sonic advantage over systems using a decent or factory head unit and an external signal processor to do the work.


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## 82801BA

I had the HD unit with P99RS. It does display the info coming from HD signal.

I also had the subwoofer at -7/-7 and tweeter at -8/-8 after auto EQ. No idea why but it does sound pretty good to me.


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## jstoner22

if you are having to have a 8db reduction on your tweeters, why not lower your gains on those channels and run it without any need for attenuation. 

i see a lot of people doing this and not maximizing their noise floor. doesn't make sense to me


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## 82801BA

I actually asked the same thing in another topic in dumb question. I will be doing a new install in the next few weeks and I will lower the gain from there, probably down to (expected output) around 25W and see. I was setting the gain at 150W(24.5V)@3/4 volume with 1k tone on all of my channels at that time.


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## avanti1960

82801BA said:


> I actually asked the same thing in another topic in dumb question. I will be doing a new install in the next few weeks and I will lower the gain from there, probably down to (expected output) around 25W and see. I was setting the gain at 150W(24.5V)@3/4 volume with 1k tone on all of my channels at that time.


This confirms that it does not take much power to run tweeters effectively. I wish they had some ultra portable 2-channel amps you could easily wire and power and install behind or under the head unit to drive tweeter channels. Something like the small Alpine power pack or the amp that comes with the Japanese DEX. This would really simplify matters, especially if you have rear door speakers consuming amp channels like my car does.


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## avanti1960

82801BA said:


> I had the HD unit with P99RS. It does display the info coming from HD signal.
> 
> I also had the subwoofer at -7/-7 and tweeter at -8/-8 after auto EQ. No idea why but it does sound pretty good to me.


Thanks for then info. The GEX-P20HD is next on my list.


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## avanti1960

After a nice couple of hours tuning today I am really really pleased with the SQ of this unit and the improvement from my previous one. 

The amazing discovery I made today was during the process of left right EQ centering of the (31) EQ bands using the individual test tones that a poster provided links to in the "ate my windshield" thread. 

It is absolutely amazing how reflections, slight turns of your head, even moving your arm to adjust the control on the deck- can completely alter the volume and direction perception of those focused individual tone signals. Also amazing is how different frequencies behave and react so much differently- even than their "neighbors" in a given octave or range of frequencies. The experience of tuning these 31 individual frequencies left and right to center them was truly eye opening and nothing what I expected. As the poster of the "windshield" thread mentioned, my EQ looks jacked. One band needed a severe cut on the left / boost on the right to be centered, while the next band up needed just the opposite form of correction. 
It is little wonder why most "SQ" stock systems rely on heavier bass and midbass and softened vocals / high frequencies to get their "pleasing" sound. I have now learned how difficult and (expensive) it is to properly tune a system for a vehicle. If you don't have left / right EQ, especially the 31 bands that the DEX has, I would have to believe that achieving a decent stage focus is an uphill battle at best. I am so glad I didn't wait for the new pioneer unit to come out that only has 16 band EQ. 

I'm telling you, this experience was enough to make me wish for sound absorbing glass- that I could get rid of those unbelievably focused laser beam reflections that act differently from frequency to frequency. 

The process was just as if a brilliant light bulb lit up for the first time- now I understand!

You play a tone signal, say 1.5Khz, and it seems to be coming from the right. Turn your head just slightly, and your right ear no longer hears the tone, it drops in pitch, and your left ear hears it. Absolutely fascinating. Not only do I wish for sound absorbing window glass, I now feel that I need to keep my head totally steady while driving!


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## trumpet

avanti1960 said:


> If you don't have left / right EQ, especially the 31 bands that the DEX has, I would have to believe that achieving a decent stage focus is an uphill battle at best.


This is something I want to try for myself, and I believe it's going to be as eye-opening as dialing in time alignment well for the first time. Thanks for your remarks in this thread.


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## avanti1960

trumpet said:


> This is something I want to try for myself, and I believe it's going to be as eye-opening as dialing in time alignment well for the first time. Thanks for your remarks in this thread.


no problem. the improvements i found after dialing in the L/R EQ are not as eye pobbing for me as they were for the "ate my windshield" DIYMA member. but i do notice much more stage stability, width and placement accuracy and I am finding more positives the more I play familiar material. the instruments and effects seem to be easier to locate, they pop out, you imagine them in the stage, and it is a nice effect. the tonality seems more balanced too- much less smearing. 
by far (for me) the biggest benefit is knowing that if i hear a vocal that is left, right or center, I know that is how the recording was produced- that is how it is intended- and not because of an imbalance in the way my system is setup. i have confidence in the sound stage and don't have to wonder or quesition it- i can relax and listen, which is awesome!


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## avanti1960

icehellion said:


> What setup are you running (Amps, Speaker, Subs, Misc)?


JL audio 900 HD 5-channel amp- all filters off except for infrasonic @ 30Hz.
Front doors= Focal 165 V30, running passive, tweeters in the upper front door panels.
Rear doors- Focal 165VB, passive, tweeters flush mounted just above the midwoofers.
Sub= JL 12W3V3 in a sonic electronix ported box which is nearly ideally tuned per JL specs, but I lined the enclosure with 2" thick polyfill sheets, careful not to block the port entrance, an additional 2" sheet on the wall opposite the sub.


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## jstoner22

it is probably having difficulty with the T/A since you are running passive front and rears.

scrap the rears and put those amp channels on your front stage. go active. then you will really hear a difference in the imaging and sq


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## avanti1960

jstoner22 said:


> it is probably having difficulty with the T/A since you are running passive front and rears.
> 
> scrap the rears and put those amp channels on your front stage. go active. then you will really hear a difference in the imaging and sq


thanks for bringing this up! 

I did not like the original autotune TA settings because it drastically lowered the level of the subwoofer channel- once I adjusted it I am now runing with the TA settings for the LEFT seat- it sounds much better than without TA. 

I did do the L/R EQ centering with the TA turned off, and then turned it back on once I finished the EQ. I dont believe these two items are in conflict. As long as the distances are measured at the mic with the ticking sounds (which are not full frequency spectrum) - it delays the signal accordingly.  

--

I am fully ready to go active- and would love to find a nice small amp that I can put behind the head unit to run my front tweeters. I just do not comprehend what value this has for me. I am happy with the level of the tweeters, the passive crossovers are well suited for my drivers based on their frequency plots. What would I gain?

--
Regarding the rear speakers, or "rear fill" as some people call it, I definitely like the added mid-bass the rear door mid-woofers provide. 

With the rear speakers on the "LOW" channel on the DEX, I did experiment with cutting the high frequencies out by setting a 2K crossover point for a low pass filter, 18db slope. 
To me, and this is probably a personal preference, with all the high frequencies coming from the front speakers it sounded almost too precise, to easy to tell the direction of everything, and made the stage much smaller. I tried this for a day or so. Then I set the read door slope to "PASS" and let the high freqs through once again. Everything opened up, the stage became much larger, wider and deeper, even deeper forward, the vocals became "angelic" again, especially the female vocals. Call it ambience, or whatever but I am one that prefers this setup. It sounds much better to my ears, and I mean much better. My system is slowly becomming an SQ hall and I'm lovin it!


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## 82801BA

So you are saying that playing full range on the back speakers make the front sound further away and wider? Are they being turn down of just leave at 0dB? Are they full range or only midrange woofers?


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## avanti1960

82801BA said:


> So you are saying that playing full range on the back speakers make the front sound further away and wider? Are they being turn down of just leave at 0dB? Are they full range or only midrange woofers?


I have focal v165 vb components in the rear doors- tweeters are 12 o'clock 8 inches from the woofer centers. They are running about -4 db. 

I am now running into a situation where the stage is too deep rearward on the right- getting too much exposure from the right rear tweeter making the stage have an L-shape accross the front and right. 

I'll probably have to run a compromise where I start cutting the rear door high frequencies lower than pass but higher than 2K. This is a bummer but I can't avoid it- it is too distracting having the stage too deep on the right. 
I am still not in love with a pinpoint front stage though with the rear tweeters completely cut. It just sounds too focused, too confined, flatter and less open.

When the rear speakers are properly blended, the sound stage still has left and right focus, it's repeatable but not so laser sharp. Much deeper and dispersed. 

I know why most find rear "fill" a royal pain in the ass- more speakers, more amp channels, more HU channels, more expense, and more difficult to tune, but to me once dialed in it sounds better. You go to a live concert and you cannot have laser like sound directionality. Listening to a time aligned front stage sounds great but is not duplicating a live performance- it sounds more like a super deluxe boom box.


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## jstoner22

sorry but i completely disagree with that 

a properly tuned front stage should not sound like a super deluxe boom box.
and most music you listen to is recorded in studio, not live performance.
even so, i know when i listen to mine, there is definitely no lack of depth or openness on live recordings. 
it just sounds like you are having a slow transition in your tuning tastes and haven't gotten away from the rears yet.
also, having a pinpoint center should not deter from your imaging if its done right


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## 82801BA

When I first get rid of my rear speakers, I felt so strange. Once getting used to it, I have no more complaints and actually love it. I do all the same to my friends and refuse to install rear speakers to them. The always complain at first, then they stop after a while.

If it sounds like a super deluxe boom box you are probably doing something wrong. Can you tell us more about how the install and equipments are?


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## icehellion

Super Deluxe Boom Box? Oh crap.

Are you happy with the mid bass response from the rear woofers or would you upgrade to 8" or larger subwoofers?


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## avanti1960

i threw out the boom box term only as a comparison- it sounds very very good with the highs cut from the rear speakers- but the image is definitely smaller and easy to pinpoint- 
when i turn the high pass filter from 2K to pass, it opens up the depth of the sound. for example, a cymbal crash from the right tweeter is a foot wide when the rear highs are cut above 2K. when the rear highs are fully passed, the same cymbal crash is two if not three feet wide, splashing on he entire front door panel or so it seems. 
just when i thought everything was perfect on the way to work this morning, it went to crap on the way home. when playing FM all of the vocals are now biased to the left- even after much L/R centering. 
So I spend another hour trying to correct it- my ears are tuned out!


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## icehellion

I've heard some people run everything flat, that its more balanced and simple...


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## avanti1960

icehellion said:


> Super Deluxe Boom Box? Oh crap.
> 
> Are you happy with the mid bass response from the rear woofers or would you upgrade to 8" or larger subwoofers?


I'm "OK" with the mid-bass output when the EQ fortifies the 100 to 250 Hz bands~ 3db or so.


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## avanti1960

well i tried something smart today after still having a horrible image despite the L/R EQ centering exercise- it was somewhat OK with TA off but not so good when TA was turned on- and I have grown accustomed to the TA. 
-
on a curious note, several tones in the upper midrange spectrum just would not center- and even seemed to get louder on the opposite side than the side i was boosting- many tones also started to "ring" and present a second tone on top of the first that also seemed to be on a different side than the non-ringing tone. i assume these were all cabin reflections- what does one expect trying to play musical tones in a small glass cubicle (from the arms up anyway). 
-
regardless, i just re-centered all of the EQ levels and made them flat. since the original TA shifted everything too far to the right, i decided to give DEX's very smart internal brain another shot at getting the TA and image centered correctly- but played a little trick on it. 
I made a "crash test dummy" out of pillows and a sleeping bag and a roll of shop towels for the "head". I tie strapped the mic to the vertical roll of shop paper towels which was set on the top of the "dummy". Before I did this, I carefully measured where my nose (center) and ears were using some reference measurements from the same surfaces of my car. I then put the mic on the dummy to represent where the center of my ears would be. 
Because the original TA placed the image way right, I moved the mic center on the dummy a full 12" to the right of my previous autotunes when the mic was strapped to the center of my headrest. The 12" shift was an attempt to reduce the relative output of the passenger side speakers and increase the driver's side so as to shift the image to the left from the previous autotunes. 

Well I it rip- still cracks me up that you need to operate the controls and read the faceplate when it's facing ceiling of my car- and I hoped my dogs would keep quiet and that no planes or trains would come by to upset the autotune. 

When it was finished, I hopped in and checked out the results. Once again, the autotune really lowered the subs level drastically, but that was easy to fix. a week later and i can rip through the DEX's menus pretty well. 
The new image was now to strong to the left- I had made some progress but overshot the mark. Easy to fix? Hope so. 
I replaced the crash test dummy and this time moved the mic 6 inches toward the left, biasing it 6 inches to the right of the autotunes I did last week-end. Let it rip, and voila! The new image is nearly dead center! It sounds GREAT! I drove around for an hour playing tunes and am quite pleased with the results.


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## avanti1960

pics of the dummy, also posted in the DEX auto EQ poll. 

if you don't like the autotune results, try moving the mic, and don't block / alter the sound reception by putting it on the headrest.


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## igrzelczyk

avanti1960 said:


> pics of the dummy, also posted in the DEX auto EQ poll.
> 
> if you don't like the autotune results, try moving the mic, and don't block / alter the sound reception by putting it on the headrest.


All in all, this is a pillow that does nothing for the greatest impact on the rebound, and so have the driver's legs and not his body. just clip the microphone to the headrest (right) and move the seat forward a clove, then convert the indicated times at 0 Sub .Sorry for poor English ...
I greet


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## WLDock

avanti1960 said:


> Regarding the rear speakers, or "rear fill" as some people call it, I definitely like the added mid-bass the rear door mid-woofers provide.
> With the rear speakers on the "LOW" channel on the DEX, I did experiment with cutting the high frequencies out by setting a 2K crossover point for a low pass filter, 18db slope.
> To me, and this is probably a personal preference, with all the high frequencies coming from the front speakers it sounded almost too precise, to easy to tell the direction of everything, and made the stage much smaller. I tried this for a day or so. Then I set the read door slope to "PASS" and let the high freqs through once again. Everything opened up, the stage became much larger, wider and deeper, even deeper forward, the vocals became "angelic" again, especially the female vocals. Call it ambience, or whatever but I am one that prefers this setup. It sounds much better to my ears, and I mean much better. My system is slowly becomming an SQ hall and I'm lovin it!


It really is all about how the system is tuned. Take an OEM system for example. Recently I was doing some serious listening in a newer Dodge Journey. The current Chrysler OEM systems are SO much better and better balances vs. systems from just a generation ago. With the BALANCE and FADE in the center position the system does several things pretty well. Midbass is controlled, and full, the overall stage is wide with some depth and ambience, etc. Now as I tried to ajust the fade to the front and slightly to the left, things went to hell! i did not like the overall sound very much....and the midbass dropped waaay off and I could not get it back with just the fronts. So, if a system is tuned properly to run front and rear speakers the overall result can add something rather than take away from the sound.

Nevertheless, there are many systems with just front speakers that can do many things right also because they are tuned to do so. Tunning is key!


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## avanti1960

Dock- 

I agree completely! My car is about the same internal size as a Journey and I did not realize how good the stock system was until I tried to improve upon it- My first "go round" of aftermarket hardware with basic 10" enclosed sub, basic amp, nice receiver (CDA 117) and what I thought were good comps (Alpine SPR 60C) actually sounder WORSE THAN FACTORY! 
Of course, key to this was the fact that I did not amplify the rear door speakers. 

I could not get the car to sound right without the rear speakers in the mix- it went to hell without them like your experience in the journey. the car's interior volume and acoustics are the reason- and the fact that the rear doors are much better bass enclosures than the front ones are. 
I wouldn't know what to do to tune the system for front speakers only. At this point I don't see why I would want to- my car sounds great as it is. 
The time alignment really helped.


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## avanti1960

igrzelczyk said:


> All in all, this is a pillow that does nothing for the greatest impact on the rebound, and so have the driver's legs and not his body. just clip the microphone to the headrest (right) and move the seat forward a clove, then convert the indicated times at 0 Sub .Sorry for poor English ...
> I greet


i didn't use the pillow to simulate a body being present in the seat during the autotune. hopefully the pioneer engineers had accounted for this in the autotune calibration- but I do have some doubts. 
i used the pillow dummy so i could have a stable base for the mic that was away from the headrest- i found that in order for the final image to be centered, the mic had to be placed in space to the right of the headrest by a couple of inches- make that 50mm for european dimensions!


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## jodyz

avanti1960 said:


> hopefully the pioneer engineers had accounted for this in the autotune calibration- but I do have some doubts.


Doubtful they would account for a body in a seat. Too many variables. I have the P99RS as well, but in the non-optimum F/R/S config.I tried the auto EQ function, but I think my F/R/S is to blame for my less than acceptable results. 

An active 2way front stage is in the planning stages, and possibly a downgrade to the DEH-80PRS before I give my car to my daughter. I'll then move the P99RS to my new car and go nuts with 3way setup.


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## jcollin76

I still say just sit in the vehicle during auto tune. This way, whatever effect you body has on reflections, blocking speakers, etc. is accounted for. You listen in the vehicle, tune in the vehicle, if your using the auto function as a baseline...be in the car. Lol


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## jodyz

jcollin76 said:


> I still say just sit in the vehicle during auto tune. This way, whatever effect you body has on reflections, blocking speakers, etc. is accounted for. You listen in the vehicle, tune in the vehicle, if your using the auto function as a baseline...be in the car. Lol


Not a bad idea, but where do I put the microphone? Should I glue it to my nose? When I get rid of the rear fill, I'll give this a try.


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## IBcivic

jodyz said:


> Not a bad idea, but where do I put the microphone? Should I glue it to my nose? When I get rid of the rear fill, I'll give this a try.


Make yourself a tuning rig


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## jcollin76

jodyz said:


> Not a bad idea, but where do I put the microphone? Should I glue it to my nose? When I get rid of the rear fill, I'll give this a try.



i borrowed one of my daughters headbands. Clipped the Mic to it and put it at about eyebrow line height.
Sit like your going to sit when driving/listening. It made a pretty large difference in the auto tune..






IBcivic said:


> Make yourself a tuning rig


Might as well have a little style while doing it. Lol
Neighbors would freak though....


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## Wesayso

IBcivic said:


> Make yourself a tuning rig


Those eyebrows will help limit reflections though!


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## avanti1960

Another nice recent discovery is the ability to adjust the level of every channel independently. 
I recently went active with the front stage after installing a new JL 300/V2 amplifier and the autotune became really finicky with the position of the mic trying to autotone all 8 channels. The final stage image would shift significantly right or left with just a slight shift in the microphone position- literally a matter of an inch or two to the right or left. 

After about 5 tuning cycles I finally settled on one but it was not as good as when the front stage was passive. 

The independent level control allowed me to fine tune the autotune results to balance the image. 

I'm guessing you could improve the image even more by fine tuning the TA settings but I am hesitant to try it.


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## jstoner22

the independent level matching is a huge plus for tuning.

and don't be hesitant! you have a P99, come on! it is meant to be tweaked and fiddled with. 
just write down your settings currently if you happen to mess it up.


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## morning_wood

Awesome write up! I always wanted to try a p99 but they were never within my price range.


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## avanti1960

Well an update for April 21. Last week I installed a class A-B amp to run active on the front stage. It sounds smoother than the class D that was running the fronts previously. There is LOTS of controversy about this opinion and I will not go into it here! 
I also built my custom sealed enclosure for the JL 12W3V3 per JL specs. The thing is as solid as a block of granite! It fits in the sub trunk of my car and frees up the main cargo area. The SQ is surprisingly better than ported. I do get some floor vibrations but will correct that today with some velcro to hold down the cargo area floor. 

My stage is still not centered very well despite a full week of tuning. Yes I even resorted to sitting in the car with the mic tie-strapped to my forehead and experimented with various positions. The sound sweeps are loud but tolerable but I am still not happy with the TA settings and image. The center fights me to stay hard left. All kinds of reflections to adjust for. 
I'm going to attempt some manual TA adjustment today with my handy test CD and see how that goes. It's very frustrating. 
Also when I am present in the car during the auto tune, the tonality is a lot more mid range dominant. 
I'm going to stick the dummy back in and then attempt to tweak the TA manually. 
Hardware is finished- tuning is a bummer!


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## avanti1960

Update 4/22/2012. 
After hours of experimenting with manual time alignment settings, I stumbled on a very simple way to dial in the settings after an autotune. First off, let me please say they I have never heard a car stereo sound like this before. It is a whole other world of sound quality once the stage is truly time aligned. 
I had an Alpine CDA 117 before and could never get it to sound right so I never really understood how big of a benefit it can be for sound quality. 
Basically I ran the "best" autotune sweep for mic position that I had achieved to date- although a per-the-manual autotune as a starting point would probably work. 
Then I needed a decent source to play in order to fine tune the settings. 
The articles I have read that suggest other methods (manual time alignment using noise and listening for the doppler effect, time alignment by finding the worst out of phase sound) somehow did not seem very easy to work with. All I wanted was for the image to be "centered" equally as to provide a nice stage. I know the autotune on the DEX really struggles with this, the image tends to wander all over the place, probably due to the amount of cabin reflections the various drivers and frequencies show. 
So i thought, how do I center the image using time alignment? I really need to do this using music with my own ears because in the end that is what I am hearing when the system is in use. 
I thought about using a mono source, since there would be no stereo or studio effects that alter the image position and that I would strictly be adjusting image to center it among the drivers. 
AM radio was an option that I quickly dropped because it is not dynamic enough and has a limited frequency range. 
I looked at my demo CD "My Disk" by Sheffield labs. It has a mono track of really dynamic, full range well recorded music. Unfortunately it is very short, so I put it on repeat track. 
I then decided right or wrong that the "distant" speakers were somewhat OK per the autotune and decided to only adjust the left tweeter, the left midbass and the left rear passive. I wanted to see how this would work. The distances shown on the autoTA seemed reasonable for those farther away drivers on the right side and the sub. 
I isolated the tweeters (mounted in stock position just below sail panels). 
I changed the crossover to 3K so that they would play a decent range of frequencies. 
First off, all levels were set equally and I had the balance position set to the right by (2) on the scale. 
I played the mono track and began adjusting the distance settings of the left tweeter. I wanted to focus the tweeter sound to the center of my windshield. I listened carefully as I heard the image go from left to right and back again just by adjusting the left tweeter TA distance. 
When I was happy with the center of the tweeter image, I then turned them down and isolated the front mid-bass drivers, located on the bottom front door panels. 
Whoaa- this image was really biased to the left. No wonder the stage was crappy. 
I again set the mono track on repeat and adjusted the distances on the left mid driver only. 
It was a lot easier to center than the tweeters. I quickly had the midbass drivers centered with time alignment. 
Then did the same to the rear door drivers. These were already close to center so it did not take too much to adjust he left rear driver to center the rear image. 

I then adjusted all crossover points to normal as well as the levels. 

Then I played one of the demo tracks (stereo) on the Sheffield labs disk-

I actually shouted out loud in my car in my garage when I heard it for the first time. Un believably amazing. Seriously, I have never heard this before ever- anywhere. I played the FM and a few CDs. Completely blown away. A whole new league and dimension to the sound. The highs are so much brighter but somehow smoother and more natural. The vocals are dead center in my windshield. The left / right stereo effects for instruments or other studio tricks pop out with precision- a keyboard pops out left of center- stays right where it should- and sounds clear and amazing. A guitar springs up to the right of center. Cymbals crash on the far right. 
Simply astounding- and very easy to get to using a high quality dynamic full range mono music track.
DEX owners- be prepared to be blown away if you have such an opportunity.


----------



## Wesayso

avanti1960 said:


> Update 4/22/2012.
> After hours of experimenting with manual time alignment settings, I stumbled on a very simple way to dial in the settings after an autotune. First off, let me please say they I have never heard a car stereo sound like this before. It is a whole other world of sound quality once the stage is truly time aligned.
> I had an Alpine CDA 117 before and could never get it to sound right so I never really understood how big of a benefit it can be for sound quality.
> Basically I ran the "best" autotune sweep for mic position that I had achieved to date- although a per-the-manual autotune as a starting point would probably work.
> Then I needed a decent source to play in order to fine tune the settings.
> The articles I have read that suggest other methods (manual time alignment using noise and listening for the doppler effect, time alignment by finding the worst out of phase sound) somehow did not seem very easy to work with. All I wanted was for the image to be "centered" equally as to provide a nice stage. I know the autotune on the DEX really struggles with this, the image tends to wander all over the place, probably due to the amount of cabin reflections the various drivers and frequencies show.
> So i thought, how do I center the image using time alignment? I really need to do this using music with my own ears because in the end that is what I am hearing when the system is in use.
> I thought about using a mono source, since there would be no stereo or studio effects that alter the image position and that I would strictly be adjusting image to center it among the drivers.
> AM radio was an option that I quickly dropped because it is not dynamic enough and has a limited frequency range.
> I looked at my demo CD "My Disk" by Sheffield labs. It has a mono track of really dynamic, full range well recorded music. Unfortunately it is very short, so I put it on repeat track.
> I then decided right or wrong that the "distant" speakers were somewhat OK per the autotune and decided to only adjust the left tweeter, the left midbass and the left rear passive. I wanted to see how this would work. The distances shown on the autoTA seemed reasonable for those farther away drivers on the right side and the sub.
> I isolated the tweeters (mounted in stock position just below sail panels).
> I changed the crossover to 3K so that they would play a decent range of frequencies.
> First off, all levels were set equally and I had the balance position set to the right by (2) on the scale.
> I played the mono track and began adjusting the distance settings of the left tweeter. I wanted to focus the tweeter sound to the center of my windshield. I listened carefully as I heard the image go from left to right and back again just by adjusting the left tweeter TA distance.
> When I was happy with the center of the tweeter image, I then turned them down and isolated the front mid-bass drivers, located on the bottom front door panels.
> Whoaa- this image was really biased to the left. No wonder the stage was crappy.
> I again set the mono track on repeat and adjusted the distances on the left mid driver only.
> It was a lot easier to center than the tweeters. I quickly had the midbass drivers centered with time alignment.
> Then did the same to the rear door drivers. These were already close to center so it did not take too much to adjust he left rear driver to center the rear image.
> 
> I then adjusted all crossover points to normal as well as the levels.
> 
> Then I played one of the demo tracks (stereo) on the Sheffield labs disk-
> 
> I actually shouted out loud in my car in my garage when I heard it for the first time. Un believably amazing. Seriously, I have never heard this before ever- anywhere. I played the FM and a few CDs. Completely blown away. A whole new league and dimension to the sound. The highs are so much brighter but somehow smoother and more natural. The vocals are dead center in my windshield. The left / right stereo effects for instruments or other studio tricks pop out with precision- a keyboard pops out left of center- stays right where it should- and sounds clear and amazing. A guitar springs up to the right of center. Cymbals crash on the far right.
> Simply astounding- and very easy to get to using a high quality dynamic full range mono music track.
> DEX owners- be prepared to be blown away if you have such an opportunity.


Congrats, I know the feeling. But would you believe there may be even more to be had? The method using the noise (listening for doppler effect) not only centers your image but it also makes sure the tweeter is in phase with the mid, the mid in phase with the sub etc. So while you have the mids adjusted L and R try the noise method on the tweeter/mid first on the left side and then adjust the right side, (don't change the mid TA, just adjust the tweeter).
You will be in audio heaven soon :laugh:


----------



## vitorchadud

avanti1960 said:


> Update 4/22/2012.
> After hours of experimenting with manual time alignment settings, I stumbled on a very simple way to dial in the settings after an autotune. First off, let me please say they I have never heard a car stereo sound like this before. It is a whole other world of sound quality once the stage is truly time aligned.
> I had an Alpine CDA 117 before and could never get it to sound right so I never really understood how big of a benefit it can be for sound quality.
> Basically I ran the "best" autotune sweep for mic position that I had achieved to date- although a per-the-manual autotune as a starting point would probably work.
> Then I needed a decent source to play in order to fine tune the settings.
> The articles I have read that suggest other methods (manual time alignment using noise and listening for the doppler effect, time alignment by finding the worst out of phase sound) somehow did not seem very easy to work with. All I wanted was for the image to be "centered" equally as to provide a nice stage. I know the autotune on the DEX really struggles with this, the image tends to wander all over the place, probably due to the amount of cabin reflections the various drivers and frequencies show.
> So i thought, how do I center the image using time alignment? I really need to do this using music with my own ears because in the end that is what I am hearing when the system is in use.
> I thought about using a mono source, since there would be no stereo or studio effects that alter the image position and that I would strictly be adjusting image to center it among the drivers.
> AM radio was an option that I quickly dropped because it is not dynamic enough and has a limited frequency range.
> I looked at my demo CD "My Disk" by Sheffield labs. It has a mono track of really dynamic, full range well recorded music. Unfortunately it is very short, so I put it on repeat track.
> I then decided right or wrong that the "distant" speakers were somewhat OK per the autotune and decided to only adjust the left tweeter, the left midbass and the left rear passive. I wanted to see how this would work. The distances shown on the autoTA seemed reasonable for those farther away drivers on the right side and the sub.
> I isolated the tweeters (mounted in stock position just below sail panels).
> I changed the crossover to 3K so that they would play a decent range of frequencies.
> First off, all levels were set equally and I had the balance position set to the right by (2) on the scale.
> I played the mono track and began adjusting the distance settings of the left tweeter. I wanted to focus the tweeter sound to the center of my windshield. I listened carefully as I heard the image go from left to right and back again just by adjusting the left tweeter TA distance.
> When I was happy with the center of the tweeter image, I then turned them down and isolated the front mid-bass drivers, located on the bottom front door panels.
> Whoaa- this image was really biased to the left. No wonder the stage was crappy.
> I again set the mono track on repeat and adjusted the distances on the left mid driver only.
> It was a lot easier to center than the tweeters. I quickly had the midbass drivers centered with time alignment.
> Then did the same to the rear door drivers. These were already close to center so it did not take too much to adjust he left rear driver to center the rear image.
> 
> I then adjusted all crossover points to normal as well as the levels.
> 
> Then I played one of the demo tracks (stereo) on the Sheffield labs disk-
> 
> I actually shouted out loud in my car in my garage when I heard it for the first time. Un believably amazing. Seriously, I have never heard this before ever- anywhere. I played the FM and a few CDs. Completely blown away. A whole new league and dimension to the sound. The highs are so much brighter but somehow smoother and more natural. The vocals are dead center in my windshield. The left / right stereo effects for instruments or other studio tricks pop out with precision- a keyboard pops out left of center- stays right where it should- and sounds clear and amazing. A guitar springs up to the right of center. Cymbals crash on the far right.
> Simply astounding- and very easy to get to using a high quality dynamic full range mono music track.
> DEX owners- be prepared to be blown away if you have such an opportunity.


What music of the cd did you use? I'm running a P99 from 2 weeks now and it's a nice HU(besides my old 9887)...But I'm looking for a better soundstage and trying to ajust the 31 band EQ...I guess I will center all 31 bands using "sine waves" tracks...what do you think about this way?


----------



## vitorchadud

Not sine waves..sorry..I will use individual frequencies tracks..


----------



## avanti1960

vitorchadud said:


> What music of the cd did you use? I'm running a P99 from 2 weeks now and it's a nice HU(besides my old 9887)...But I'm looking for a better soundstage and trying to ajust the 31 band EQ...I guess I will center all 31 bands using "sine waves" tracks...what do you think about this way?


hello vitor! I have a colleague named vitor from brazil. 

I tried using the tone bursts for each frequency of the DEX's 31 bands to adjust the L/R EQ- adjusting to center each frequency.
Unfortunately it did not work and the image was horrible. I tried it several times. The problem was that many of the key frequencies tended to reflect and bounce around. Some frequencies reflected so much that I could not get them to center no matter what I did. 
It is worth a try but I believe you will have better success using your ears to adjust the TA.


----------



## Wesayso

avanti1960 said:


> hello vitor! I have a colleague named vitor from brazil.
> 
> I tried using the tone bursts for each frequency of the DEX's 31 bands to adjust the L/R EQ- adjusting to center each frequency.
> Unfortunately it did not work and the image was horrible. I tried it several times. The problem was that many of the key frequencies tended to reflect and bounce around. Some frequencies reflected so much that I could not get them to center no matter what I did.
> It is worth a try but I believe you will have better success using your ears to adjust the TA.


Were the frequencies you couldn't get right around your crossover points? With higher and thus shorter frequencies a little movement changes a lot. But I was wondering if having the tweeter and mids/woofers in phase on each seperate side would give better/easier results aligning them with tone bursts.
Out of phase at the crossover point would mean you won't be able to hear the directionality as much right? It would sound like it's coming from around you (like when you have the mids time aligned and then swap phase/polarity 180 deg).
If it is around the crossover points try and use the noise method to align the tweeters to the mids with TA (while overlapping the frequencies from the tweeter and mid as much as possible, restore original crossover points afterwards) and listen again. After aligning them try and use 6 db/oct (if the tweeter han handle that) or 24 db/oct slopes at the crossover points, else it might change phase to much but you could play with that too. Left and right crossover points and slopes don't have to be symetrical due to the different angles you listen to the speakers.


----------



## vitorchadud

The sine swep was useful for me...when playing it, the sound begins in the center and at the final of the track (lower frequencies) is remains the center too...

I'm going to try another slopes today...


----------



## avanti1960

Wesayso said:


> Were the frequencies you couldn't get right around your crossover points? With higher and thus shorter frequencies a little movement changes a lot. But I was wondering if having the tweeter and mids/woofers in phase on each seperate side would give better/easier results aligning them with tone bursts.
> Out of phase at the crossover point would mean you won't be able to hear the directionality as much right? It would sound like it's coming from around you (like when you have the mids time aligned and then swap phase/polarity 180 deg).
> If it is around the crossover points try and use the noise method to align the tweeters to the mids with TA (while overlapping the frequencies from the tweeter and mid as much as possible, restore original crossover points afterwards) and listen again. After aligning them try and use 6 db/oct (if the tweeter han handle that) or 24 db/oct slopes at the crossover points, else it might change phase to much but you could play with that too. Left and right crossover points and slopes don't have to be symetrical due to the different angles you listen to the speakers.


good observation, you might be right about the reflections being at the crossover points but I don't remember. i will have to try one of these days that and the pink noise experiment. 
it just seems like it will be difficult to adjust 4 speakers in an active setup that way- so you get the right speakers in phase, then the left, and then adjust the delay on both lefts at the same time to center the image?


----------



## avanti1960

Tomorrow I am upgrading the front tweeters to Scanspeak 1" silk domes ordered the other day from Madisound. Great delivery BTW (ding ding ding) ordered Wednesday afternoon arrived on Thursday. 
I'm going with the Scanspeak because I am tired of the in your face qualities of the Focal tweeters- while excellent are not the style I like. Also I hope to be able to cross the Scanspeak tweeters much lower (2Khz or 2.5Khz) to help the imaging and get the focal midwoofers out of their breakup frequencies. Focal are very open with their frequency plots but because of this you can easily see where they break up. In my case the 165 V30 midwoofers break up just north of 3K or so yet the tweeters sound awful below 4Khz. After realizing this IMHO the Focals are somewhat overpriced. 
I actually ran an older set of Vifa NE19VTA04 aluminum domes in hopes that I could cross them lower than 4K- unfortunately even with a low Fs they did not sound good crossed any lower than the Focals. Although the VIfas were not too bad, the Focal tweeters have them beat in other areas too BTW FWIW. 
Looking forward to seeing how the Scanspeaks sound. I have read a lot of good reviews but also see a lot of them for sale too.


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## vitorchadud

avanti1960, why did you set the balance position for Right?


----------



## avanti1960

vitor-
i shifted the balance to the right a little as a quick way to center the volume level from the front and rear speakers together. in my past vehicles the right balance has somewhat centered the image from a volume level point of view. 
then i could focus on the time alignment to further refine the center of the image. it may not be the most technical way to do it but it works for me.


----------



## cobra93

I see we're working on achieving the results we want with some of the same techniques.

I have to mention two gripes about the P99rs.
1) The balance adjustment doesn't work on the sub output. 
This won't be noticed by anyone with only one sub or possibly with more than one in their trunk/hatch where they're farther away for the listening position.
I will have to disconnect one sub to isolate the other one in order to TA it with any other drivers.
These are directly behind me (extended cab ranger).

2) Why did they put the TA in inches instead of milliseconds?
This makes everything backwards, at least to me it does.
I would rather add delay to the driver closest to me (drivers side), not choose the driver on the opposite side (pass.side) and add inches to it in order to delay the closer one (driver side).

I'm still working on TA between drivers on the same side, I haven't figured out what I should be listening for.


----------



## monty9991

hi all, 
There is this CAR icon just above the volt's display. Can any one tell me what does it means? I cannot find it on the manual or I am skipping something on the manual. 
Plz see the pic attached..


----------



## avanti1960

monty9991 said:


> hi all,
> There is this CAR icon just above the volt's display. Can any one tell me what does it means? I cannot find it on the manual or I am skipping something on the manual.
> Plz see the pic attached..


I don't know what the car icon represents- It does not display on my DEX. I like it though!


----------



## monty9991

This just showed up today after using it for 3-4weeks. And its sometimes on and sometimes off.


----------



## 82801BA

It means traffic signal detected AND the radio is not at the TUNER source.

Do you have an accessory radio tuner installed? Or you have a P01? Because as far as I know P99RS does NOT have RDS function.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 5/22/2012

Overall I continue to be pleased with the sound quality and volume of my system due in no small contribution to the performance of the DEX P99. 
The image is set- I find no need to adjust TA any longer. Thanks to those who suggested to go for it, once you record the settings it is quite easy to run through the menu and make additional refinements. 

I am not quite satisfied with final tonality of the autotune EQ portion. Even manually adjusting the EQ is kind of like shooting in the dark. 
I have hardware on order to do some real time analysis and I am anxious to see the response of my current tune as well as the (hopefully) improved SQ once I know where the hot frequencies are boosted / reflected. Switching off the auto EQ reveals a very hollow, bassy sound so I know there is plenty of midrange / upper midrange boosting occurring from the autotune EQ results. 

An observation of a particularly nice touch is that the audio menu always returns to the place you left off when you select it. This is helpful when tuning on the run, say you make an adjustment to the tweeter level, play it for a few miles, you can easily and quickly get back to that menu just by entering the audio menu and re-adjust as necessary. I'm sure this has led to arriving at a more refined tune in a shorter amount of time.


----------



## avanti1960

Well the Pioneer autotune officially stinks. DEX owners- invest in an RTA setup ASAP to get the most out of your hardware investment. Posted in the "technical" forum but also deserves to be posted here as well-
OK- first series of (True) RTA sessions were run yesterday and I learned a ton- not finished yet but the end result in my "new" sound is nothing short of amazing- EVERY CD sounds good now- no more thin sounding older CDs, older recordings, bad recordings, etc. Once you approach a realistic frequency curve everything sounds good- maybe with minor adjustments but nothing where you want to actually avoid playing certain CDs. 
I did a series of (9) RTA captures using 20-20K pink noise from my Shefield Lab "My Disk" CD (track 43 if you're keeping score at home).
I used the popular Dayton Audio mic. Based on the flatness of the mic, the flatness of my multimedia laptop's sound and graphics card I did not calibrate either device. I was looking for relative curve differences and not precise measurements within a db or so. As it turned out the initial curve was so way out of whack that fine calibration did not matter. 
The (9) measurements consisted of (3) microphone positions at (3) volume settings, (all positions at nose height, center of driver's seat)
Mic aimed 45 degrees left, mic aimed straight ahead, mic aimed 45 degrees right, each position seeing volume settings of 20 (moderate) 30 (fairly loud) and 40 (very loud). I then "averaged" the left, center and right positions for each volume level. 
The center measurement was nearly identical to the average of all three, and there was not much difference between the curve shapes of the 30 and 40 volume positions. As a time saver for future sessions I will use the mic aimed center and volume position 30, this will give good results to fine tune the curve. 
So here is the "curve" from my system, the one that was really not very satisfactory. 
OK- first series of (True) RTA sessions were run yesterday and I learned a ton- not finished yet but the end result in my "new" sound is nothing short of amazing- EVERY CD sounds good now- no more thin sounding older CDs, older recordings, bad recordings, etc. Once you approach a realistic frequency curve everything sounds good- maybe with minor adjustments but nothing where you want to actually avoid playing certain CDs. 
I did a series of (9) RTA captures using 20-20K pink noise from my Shefield Lab "My Disk" CD (track 43 if you're keeping score at home).
I used the popular Dayton Audio mic. Based on the flatness of the mic, the flatness of my multimedia laptop's sound and graphics card I did not calibrate either device. I was looking for relative curve differences and not precise measurements within a db or so. As it turned out the initial curve was so way out of whack that fine calibration did not matter. 
The (9) measurements consisted of (3) microphone positions at (3) volume settings, (all positions at nose height, center of driver's seat)
Mic aimed 45 degrees left, mic aimed straight ahead, mic aimed 45 degrees right, each position seeing volume settings of 20 (moderate) 30 (fairly loud) and 40 (very loud). I then "averaged" the left, center and right positions for each volume level. 
The center measurement was nearly identical to the average of all three, and there was not much difference between the curve shapes of the 30 and 40 volume positions. As a time saver for future sessions I will use the mic aimed center and volume position 30, this will give good results to fine tune the curve. 
So here is the "curve" from my system, the one that was really not very satisfactory. 
The general shape of the curve is OK, but the trouble starts at around 300hz where it takes a 8db nose dive on its way to 500hz, where it abruptly starts climbing as it approaches 800Hz which is nearly 18db above the previous region of the curve! As you follow from 800Hz to 5Khz (crossover frequency) the shape and slope are nice, but that whole plateau region of midrange frequencies is nominally 10db higher than the flat region between 150Hz and 300Hz. 
No wonder the sound was occasionally very harsh, midrange frequencies from 800Hz to 5Khz were in effect boosted 10db! Thanks Pioneer autotune!!!!!!!!
I would have NEVER been able to account for this by ear- the curve is just too extreme to imagine. 
Unfortunately the EQ on the deck is limited in range and making 10db cuts did not sound reasonable. So I lowered the level of the mid-bass drivers by 5db and made 5db cuts from 800Hz to 5Khz. 
I then remeasured with True RTA (did not save those curves) and it seemed much better. 
Quite simply the new sound is what I have been missing all along. It is awesome. 
I will remeasure later today based on some refinement to the True RTA settings that I used initially, like speed, sample frequency (averaging) and to turn off peak hold. 
Quite honestly unless you are a truly experienced by-ear tuner I doubt anyone could get the most out of their system without an RTA analysis as well as having flexible capability of the system's output and adjustment. 

As a reference to DEX owners I will run an RTA session using the supplied Pioneer autotune mic and compare it against a higher quality microphone.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 6/5/2012:

Still trying to perfrct the "tune" using RTA tools. Getting closer but has a setback because my laptop sound driver would not register the SPL of frequencies above 5Khz. 

In the initial settings menu there is a switch for "digital attenuator". 

Quote:

Correcting distorted sound
When listening to a CD or other source on
which the recording level is high, setting the
level of each frequency to high may result in
distortion. You can switch the digital attenua
tor to low to reduce distortion.
! Sound quality is better at the high setting
so this setting is usually used.
1 Use MULTI-CONTROL to select
Digital ATT in the initial setting menu.
Refer to Adjusting initial settings on page 35.
2 Press MULTI-CONTROL to select the digital
attenuator level.
Pressing MULTI-CONTROL repeatedly will
switch between High (high) and Low (low)
and that status will be displayed.

I wound up turning it to "low" yesterday becaues some of the vocals on a CD sounded a litle raspy / distorted. 

It did sound better in the low position. More listening to come about this feature. I had first understood this to be an aid when playing digital media but not so. 

Based on the burried menu layer it's difficult to do a quick A-B comparison but I do find the "low" position sounds noticeably cleaner.


----------



## avanti1960

Update July 8th, 2012.
Peace everybody, hope your audio projects are reaping many rewards.

In the ongoing exploration of the RTA process I was having great difficulty in achieving consistently good sound quality over a variety of the music I listen to. 
I discovered a fundamental flaw in the method however. I was basically trying to tune over the Pioneer autoEQ results, which in effect is "un-tuning" the resulting Pioneer curve. So basically the Pioneer autotune creates this EQ curve (which looks like God knows what) and I was trying to use RTA and the 31-band graphic EQ on top of this. No wonder the sound was strained and artificial (for lack of a better term). 

So in a fresh start, I turned the auto EQ off. Then I listened to the system completely flat for a week or so. While it did not sound spectacular, it did sound completely clean, easy to listen to and more importantly sounded like this for every CD I played. Gone was the strained processed sound and occasional harshness. I could also turn the volume up extremely loud and it would sound great. No longer did I have to reach for the EQ or crossover or network level controls on a harsh Mark Lanegan vocal, for example. Everything was CLEAN. This was promising, I thought. Needed a little work but promising. 
After running flat for a week, I put the mic to the sound and did an RTA session. It showed a very high bass and mid bass region (plus 10-15db or so) and a few peaks in the midrange and lower treble regions. 

I made a few EQ cuts in these areas, attacking the peaks with a moderate cut, then a smaller cut on either side of the peak so as to smooth the transition in the system from unit to amp to speakers. 

I have lived with this for about 2-weeks or so and I must say it does sound very nice. 

In an experiment I did switch the auto EQ back on a few times. The strained midrange / vocal sound returned immediately, although the bass did sound more punchy and dynamic. 
I will soon do an RTA session to see what the bass region of the auto EQ looks like and see if I can duplicate it with a little EQ magic.


----------



## Rupinder

even i dont like the auto eq of p99 although the auto ta is quite accurate and brings the sub infront


----------



## avanti1960

Update 8/18/12:

The DEX continues to out perform the more the rest of the system is upgraded. An upgrade to a 3-way front stage with HAT wideband drivers and proper tuning have brought the SQ to a new level. Clean, detailed, accurate and a sound stage that is 3-dimensionsal and high.

I do have one "downer" to report though. The volume control seems to have slowed down- in other words, when I rapidly spin the volume knob the volume sometimes does not change, changes very slowly or even reverses a little. 
If I spin it slowly, all is good but it is still a little issue. I do wish the volume control responded better- it seems to take too long to turn the volume up or down substantially- especially if you're in a hurry, like a toll booth, conversation, etc. Because we all know that we cannot listen at anything other than a very high level!


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## BlackCSVT

I'm considering upgrading my Premier 980BT to this. Where is the best place to purchase the 99?


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## dr.vacation

subscribed


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## MacLeod

I noticed that same thing with the volume on mine. It is annoying but I kept my remote attached to my steering wheel and just use the mute button instead. But when I install it in my new Accord, Ill use the steering wheel controls and wont have my remote strapped to the wheel so Ill have to use the UI for more things. The buttons on this thing are awful and almost unusable. Pioneer built a superb head unit and one of the best in history but the UI is just horrible. 

But those gripes aside, the P99 truly is a remarkable piece of equipment. Enough processing power for 99.9% of applications, beautiful build and design, pure sonic goodness and totally noise free but a horrible UI. I'd still recommend one and buy it again if I had to do it all over. 

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 82801BA

I feel that the unit doesn't like mixing odd an even order slope. For example, everytime I do 6dB (or 18) HP and 24dB LP between mid and subwoofer would always guarantee an out of phase result AND off-center imaging. Flipping the phase works, but not with bass coming way from behind. Putting it back to 12/24 or 12/12 always work fine and they integrate nicely. Don't know if it's the same on my mid/tweeter (currently at 6H/12L) because I don't know how to distinguish between in phase and out of phase mid/tweet. I may switch to 12/12 in the future.


----------



## WestCo

BlackCSVT said:


> I'm considering upgrading my Premier 980BT to this. Where is the best place to purchase the 99?


I just purchased this HU used on eBay for $750. I had been looking to pick one up for months but only for the right price. $1.2k was out of my ball park.

If you want a nice shiny new one from an authorized dealer...
Pioneer Stage 4 DEX-P99RS CD receiver/preamp at Crutchfield.com

I am really thankful for the EXTENSIVE discussion of the auto time allignment / auto eq features of this deck. It will definately be the first feature I use. Anyway thanks for everyone contribution and hopefully I can add somethings that I find after everything is going.

One final question. I have an Eclipse CD7200mkii, how big of an improvement will this deck be in your estimation?


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## Rysandro

Nice review!


----------



## avanti1960

MacLeod said:


> I noticed that same thing with the volume on mine. It is annoying but I kept my remote attached to my steering wheel and just use the mute button instead. But when I install it in my new Accord, Ill use the steering wheel controls and wont have my remote strapped to the wheel so Ill have to use the UI for more things. The buttons on this thing are awful and almost unusable. Pioneer built a superb head unit and one of the best in history but the UI is just horrible.
> 
> But those gripes aside, the P99 truly is a remarkable piece of equipment. Enough processing power for 99.9% of applications, beautiful build and design, pure sonic goodness and totally noise free but a horrible UI. I'd still recommend one and buy it again if I had to do it all over.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2


thanks for the info. good to know the unit is not failing. if you want a really bad UI check out some of the other pioneer HUs. I had one where the multifunction control looked like a mini satellite dish- it hardly ever executed the command you were expecting. 
i also read where touch screen head units are considered too distracting. sound quality not withstanding i personally would not want a full touch screen UI for a car headunit.


----------



## avanti1960

82801BA said:


> I feel that the unit doesn't like mixing odd an even order slope. For example, everytime I do 6dB (or 18) HP and 24dB LP between mid and subwoofer would always guarantee an out of phase result AND off-center imaging. Flipping the phase works, but not with bass coming way from behind. Putting it back to 12/24 or 12/12 always work fine and they integrate nicely. Don't know if it's the same on my mid/tweeter (currently at 6H/12L) because I don't know how to distinguish between in phase and out of phase mid/tweet. I may switch to 12/12 in the future.


good point- i have noticed that different slope combinations seem to do more than just change the frequencies a driver is playing / not playing. what does it sound like to you? i don't think it sounds completely out of phase but definitely different and it does affect the centering. i would like to be able to understand this more- to know exactly what i'm getting when a given slope combination is set for a given network.


----------



## 82801BA

When I do 6/24 the subwoofer plays along with the left side speaker. Lost all the punches and sound muddy. Flip the phase to REV and it's much tighter, but the bass seems to play by itself (from the back). The image appears to come from the right side.

Also, I don't know if it's only me. My subwoofers are almost always TA in the 154/155in region no matter what slope I choose.


----------



## jtaudioacc

I suggest NOT to spin the volume fast. You'll wear out the volume control, and what will end up happening is the volume will sort of "skip" while turning and not move up or down. I believe the pot is a bit fragile. Having installed and use many, you can tell which are older and which are new, or haven't been used as much by the feel of the volume control. Brand new, the volume basically feels the same as the tuning knob.

I replaced mine a bit ago since it was a pain to control volume. I use much more finesse while controlling the volume now.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 9/3/2012:

I'm planning to upgrade my subwoofer driver to help the deep bass output below 60hz or so. My current drivers are OK but I believe they can be beat in overall SQ and extended low frequency response without resorting to a ported enclosure once again. 

The new drivers are on order (Scanspeak Discovery 12") and from what I have read these should offer a big improvement and shift the F3 frequency to about 37Hz or so down from est. 44 Hz. The plots look really nice down as low as 20Hz. 

To help this effort I just read that the P99's SW network has some attractive High Pass frequency settings. 
Currently I have my amplifier's infrasonic filter activated. It is preset to 30Hz, 24db slope. I use it because even a subwoofer with a sealed enclosure sounds better and tighter with it activated. I have tested this extensively. 
However, to help increase the output of the lowest frequencies between 20 to 30Hz I plan to deactivate the infrasonic on the amp and use the P99 SW HPF to control the infrasonic.
I can choose either 20, 25 or 31 Hz and every slope is available from PASS to 36db. 
Talk about versatility! Plus it will be nice to try this real time from the driver's seat with some reference deep bass tracks. 
I have some older progressive rock that I love that has some deep bass organ passages. Really deep. I was kind of disappointed the last time I played it because I remember it sounding so much better with the ported enclosure. However I am NOT going back to ported. The SQ of the sealed is too great of a trade off to lose again. Therefore the upgrade in driver for a lower F3 as well as a little infrasonic / HPF experimentation with the trusty and versatile DEX P99. 
Say tuned and I will report back when I install the new sub.


----------



## Krieger88

Such a awesome head unit. Does anyone know where I can buy one (that's not msrp) and not from crutchfield or woofersect? Obviously this thing will cost quite a bit but there's gotta be a deal somewhere to be had. (Also looked on their website and there's no dealers for this headunit anywhere near my house :S


----------



## avanti1960

Krieger88 said:


> Such a awesome head unit. Does anyone know where I can buy one (that's not msrp) and not from crutchfield or woofersect? Obviously this thing will cost quite a bit but there's gotta be a deal somewhere to be had. (Also looked on their website and there's no dealers for this headunit anywhere near my house :S


i ordered mine from crutch- great service and free harness and mounting hardware. stage 4 stuff was pulled from most dealers for some reason.


----------



## Krieger88

avanti1960 said:


> i ordered mine from crutch- great service and free harness and mounting hardware. stage 4 stuff was pulled from most dealers for some reason.


I'm going to keep looking for a bit in hope I can find one for a better price. While this headunit is definitely god-tier I can't justify spending over $1000. I'm hoping to find one for like $900.


----------



## BlackCSVT

It's highly doubtful you'll find a new one for 900. Although I'd snatch one up in a heartbeat for that price, that's pretty much used territory. Lowest I can see on a new one would be $1050.


----------



## Krieger88

BlackCSVT said:


> It's highly doubtful you'll find a new one for 900. Although I'd snatch one up in a heartbeat for that price, that's pretty much used territory. Lowest I can see on a new one would be $1050.


Any deal is better than that 1200 price tag. I saw on crutchfield they have one a little cheaper for like 60 bucks less. Though it's an opened packaged. Fudge that, I'm not saving only $60 to find out some weirdo diddled that product and sent it back.


----------



## avanti1960

just for kicks i ran some "lower cost" scenarios for my system and included the deh-80prs. I could probably live with the 16 band EQ but only 6-channels is a deal breaker.


----------



## Krieger88

Found one for $1000


----------



## WestCo

Krieger88 said:


> Found one for $1000


About the only way you are going to find one less than 1200-1000 is to look for one used on eBay, craigslist, or on the forumns. They do come up but you have to check frequently.


----------



## Krieger88

WestCo said:


> About the only way you are going to find one less than 1200-1000 is to look for one used on eBay, craigslist, or on the forumns. They do come up but you have to check frequently.


Was able to snatch one that apparently was never used but its box was damaged. The ad said mint and the seller had 99.9 positive feedback with over 300 customers. Mon or Tuesday it should arrive. Gotta sell my Pioneer avh 4400bh before it gets here.


----------



## WestCo

It is a great deck, in some ways I prefer my old Eclipse CD7200mkii. The sound out of the Eclipse is less digital. I am not running active yet and my opinion may change when that happens.

If you were running passive crossovers and have no intention of switching to active I wouldn't recommend a p99rs. I know some of the others here may disagree with me, but right now I cannot see justifying dropping 1.2K on the deck (at least while running passive xovers).

If you are running passive what I found that I like is...
Auto tune on - (yes you need to sit in the car during the test to get a 1/2 decient autotune)
Auto eq on
Sound retriever on low - (yes even for CD's, seems to add some warmth to the sound)
Digital attinuation on low
And adjustments to the eq based on my individual needs

It sounds very good, but the music lacks warmth in my opionion.

The really big wins on this deck for me are the FM tuner (low static and exceptional sound quailty) and its ability to make compressed files sound acceptable. 

My current system:
I am using McIntosh amps MCC404M and an MCC302 and Focal PS165 speakers for the front stage and PS690's. Image dynamic 12'' subs.

Im switching to active soon to see how it preforms...
Upgrading to an MCC406M (6 channel amp)
HAT - L1 pros, L4SE, and L6SE speakers
Keeping the rest as is.

Closing thoughts: The user interface is a nightmere to get used to and many of the buttons should have been made larger. I do need to do an RTA session to fine tune the deck, for the pricetag I don't think people should HAVE to go to such a measure to get the most out of the deck. It comes with an Auto Tune, which should have been better. The microphone which came with the deck appears to be of poor quality and probably a big part of why the autotune isn't better. I see people bending over backwards to have an excellant sounding system when Pioneer could have made the task MUCH simpler by doing some better engineering and providing the customers with better equipment. It is an expensive deck and users should be able to expect more.


----------



## Hanatsu

WestCo said:


> It is a great deck, in some ways I prefer my old Eclipse CD7200mkii. The sound out of the Eclipse is less digital. I am not running active yet and my opinion may change when that happens.
> 
> If you were running passive crossovers and have no intention of switching to active I wouldn't recommend a p99rs. I know some of the others here may disagree with me, but right now I cannot see justifying dropping 1.2K on the deck (at least while running passive xovers).
> 
> If you are running passive what I found that I like is...
> Auto tune on - (yes you need to sit in the car during the test to get a 1/2 decient autotune)
> Auto eq on
> Sound retriever on low - (yes even for CD's, seems to add some warmth to the sound)
> Digital attinuation on low
> And adjustments to the eq based on my individual needs
> 
> It sounds very good, but the music lacks warmth in my opionion.
> 
> The really big wins on this deck for me are the FM tuner (low static and exceptional sound quailty) and its ability to make compressed files sound acceptable.
> 
> My current system:
> I am using McIntosh amps MCC404M and an MCC302 and Focal PS165 speakers for the front stage and PS690's. Image dynamic 12'' subs.
> 
> Im switching to active soon to see how it preforms...
> Upgrading to an MCC406M (6 channel amp)
> HAT - L1 pros, L4SE, and L6SE speakers
> Keeping the rest as is.
> 
> Closing thoughts: The user interface is a nightmere to get used to and many of the buttons should have been made larger. I do need to do an RTA session to fine tune the deck, for the pricetag I don't think people should HAVE to go to such a measure to get the most out of the deck. It comes with an Auto Tune, which should have been better. The microphone which came with the deck appears to be of poor quality and probably a big part of why the autotune isn't better. I see people bending over backwards to have an excellant sounding system when Pioneer could have made the task MUCH simpler by doing some better engineering and providing the customers with better equipment. It is an expensive deck and users should be able to expect more.


Wow..

The P99 got most stuff that anyone would need, don't know of other HUs with such a great processor in this price range which also have an USB/iPod input. It probably has the most features available of any highend HU, so why are the P99 not living up to expectations?

Do not understand what "cold" or "warm" sound means either. Distortion, noise, crosstalk are down in unquestionable inaudible levels and FR measures flat from 20-20000Hz. What could possibly sound different? You can add warmth or harshness or whatever with the built in DSP, it's about frequency response. I can understand that speakers have different tonalities/distortion which could be discribed as warm or cold, this isn't applicable to low distortion/flat FR equipment like this headunit.


----------



## WestCo

Hanatsu said:


> Wow..
> 
> The P99 got most stuff that anyone would need, don't know of other HUs with such a great processor in this price range which also have an USB/iPod input. It probably has the most features available of any highend HU, so why are the P99 not living up to expectations?
> 
> Do not understand what "cold" or "warm" sound means either. Distortion, noise, crosstalk are down in unquestionable inaudible levels and FR measures flat from 20-20000Hz. What could possibly sound different? You can add warmth or harshness or whatever with the built in DSP, it's about frequency response. I can understand that speakers have different tonalities/distortion which could be discribed as warm or cold, this isn't applicable to low distortion/flat FR equipment like this headunit.


My main issue is that the P99RS should be much easier to tune right out of the box. Right now I have easily spent 15+ hours trying to tune this deck my ear. Yes things generally get better every time I fiddle with its settings, yes the sound is very good from the deck, and yes it has many features. The time expendature required to make it sound as good as my old HU is aggrovating (at least for me). I have reached the point where I prefer the sound out of this deck on my system to any system prior, that being said, is has been a complete struggle and I still wish I could make the music sound warmer. It should have been equipped with software and hardware for _quality_ quick tuning and equilibration. 

I know I may sound a bit nasty in my comments. Cold sounding music has more detail and is chrisper, but sounds less like reality. Warm sounding music is more analoge and sounds more musical and less artificial. I have tried to get the DSP to my liking by ear, but I have come to the conclusion that I am going to need some real time analysis equipment to properly tune this deck to different styles of music. Its just aggrovating knowing when your equipment can preform really well, but making it preform well takes hours upon hours and special equipment. It's disappointing in that reguard.


----------



## avanti1960

WestCo said:


> My main issue is that the P99RS should be much easier to tune right out of the box. Right now I have easily spent 15+ hours trying to tune this deck my ear. .


no issue with that statement- i have had mine since february and am still tuning- but ever so slightly.
you really need to be a good technician with this deck- but the end results are so worth it. an RTA does help- but it helped me more to learn which bands to adjust on the fly to get a certain sound. 

learn to dial in the TA settings- go for small clicks on one side only, one set at a time.

also- turn off the auto EQ- it is extremely midrange biased-

level everything to zero then adjust the levels of your drivers to achieve the best posisble sound balance- e.g. if you are hearing too much midrange, lower the mid channels, not enough midbass- adjust the low channels, etc. 
run like this for a week or so and i bet you come close to not needing any EQ. if you do, make only small adjustments.

i have found that too much EQ, even if they are cuts- can make for a harsh sound. the less EQ the better.


----------



## jstoner22

no offence, but that sounds more like a user problem than the head unit.

if you wanted gear "equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration", why not buy an MS8? 
this unit is geared towards the people that want to spend the time tuning and perfecting it themselves.
personally I found the interface and tuning capabilities in this unit was the first that finally provided / allowed me to easily achieve the exact sound I'm looking for.


----------



## Jani X

jstoner22 said:


> no offence, but that sounds more like a user problem than the head unit.
> 
> if you wanted gear "equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration", why not buy an MS8?
> this unit is geared towards the people that want to spend the time tuning and perfecting it themselves.
> personally I found the interface and tuning capabilities in this unit was the first that finally provided / allowed me to easily achieve the exact sound I'm looking for.


Word.

It also takes just days to learn to do all the fineadjusting with the remotecontrol with your eyes closed. Almost 
If it had a couple of memoryslots for xover/TA-settings, it would be absolutely perfect.


----------



## WestCo

jstoner22 said:


> no offence, but that sounds more like a user problem than the head unit.
> 
> if you wanted gear "equipped with software and hardware for quality quick tuning and equilibration", why not buy an MS8?
> this unit is geared towards the people that want to spend the time tuning and perfecting it themselves.
> personally I found the interface and tuning capabilities in this unit was the first that finally provided / allowed me to easily achieve the exact sound I'm looking for.


That is EXACTLY my point.
Why not get a good head unit for around $350-450 and get an MS8?
You would be money ahead and wouldn't have the headaches. I realise that probably even with an MS8 people would still want to make adjustments, but you would have a much better starting point. For me an MS8 would have been a better investment. 

That being said I don't see why Pioneer did not spend more energy tring to give users a better baseline auto tune. To say its geared toward user adjustments is fine, but that doesn't let Pioneer off the hook.

I'll admit I am not an expert at tuning, but the automatic tuning features leaves a lot to be desired. The P99RS provides more avenues to achieve a better overall sound, but getting there is going to take a lot of time and effort, and for me more equipment to buy.

Are you running active currently? I think a big part of my struggles is that I have passive crossovers and the HU wasn't geared to an active network.


----------



## WestCo

avanti1960 said:


> no issue with that statement- i have had mine since february and am still tuning- but ever so slightly.
> you really need to be a good technician with this deck- but the end results are so worth it. an RTA does help- but it helped me more to learn which bands to adjust on the fly to get a certain sound.
> 
> learn to dial in the TA settings- go for small clicks on one side only, one set at a time.
> 
> also- turn off the auto EQ- it is extremely midrange biased-
> 
> level everything to zero then adjust the levels of your drivers to achieve the best posisble sound balance- e.g. if you are hearing too much midrange, lower the mid channels, not enough midbass- adjust the low channels, etc.
> run like this for a week or so and i bet you come close to not needing any EQ. if you do, make only small adjustments.
> 
> i have found that too much EQ, even if they are cuts- can make for a harsh sound. the less EQ the better.


I'll give it a try and I appreciate the advice!
Right now I am running passive crossovers so I don't have many options on lowering midbass levels without the EQ.


----------



## Hanatsu

WestCo said:


> My main issue is that the P99RS should be much easier to tune right out of the box. Right now I have easily spent 15+ hours trying to tune this deck my ear. Yes things generally get better every time I fiddle with its settings, yes the sound is very good from the deck, and yes it has many features. The time expendature required to make it sound as good as my old HU is aggrovating (at least for me). I have reached the point where I prefer the sound out of this deck on my system to any system prior, that being said, is has been a complete struggle and I still wish I could make the music sound warmer. It should have been equipped with software and hardware for _quality_ quick tuning and equilibration.
> 
> I know I may sound a bit nasty in my comments. Cold sounding music has more detail and is chrisper, but sounds less like reality. Warm sounding music is more analoge and sounds more musical and less artificial. I have tried to get the DSP to my liking by ear, but I have come to the conclusion that I am going to need some real time analysis equipment to properly tune this deck to different styles of music. Its just aggrovating knowing when your equipment can preform really well, but making it preform well takes hours upon hours and special equipment. It's disappointing in that reguard.


I agree about being tricky to use the first time I messed around with it. Auto EQ sucks too. You really need measurement equipment to get the most of the settings. Pioneer probably assumes that only advanced users buy these kind of units. A 31b EQ L-R is not easy to set by ear imo.


----------



## 82801BA

I found that if upper midrange (2-4kHz) is bright I would use a gap, [email protected] and [email protected], between mid and tweeter (I have tweeter on pillar), to smooth out the upper midrange. But the thing is, auto TA doesn't seem to work properly when there's a gap. It keeps lowering the gain on my midranges. Not to mention Auto EQ doesn't sound right.

Another thing that I still unable to solve is, when I sit in the car, or place anything between mic and headrest, the driver's midrange would go all the way to 80+ inches while the rest seems correct.


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> no issue with that statement- i have had mine since february and am still tuning- but ever so slightly.
> you really need to be a good technician with this deck- but the end results are so worth it. an RTA does help- but it helped me more to learn which bands to adjust on the fly to get a certain sound.
> 
> learn to dial in the TA settings- go for small clicks on one side only, one set at a time.
> 
> also- turn off the auto EQ- it is extremely midrange biased-
> 
> level everything to zero then adjust the levels of your drivers to achieve the best posisble sound balance- e.g. if you are hearing too much midrange, lower the mid channels, not enough midbass- adjust the low channels, etc.
> run like this for a week or so and i bet you come close to not needing any EQ. if you do, make only small adjustments.
> 
> i have found that too much EQ, even if they are cuts- can make for a harsh sound. the less EQ the better.


AutoEQ enchanced midbass over the top for me. Did not like it.

EQ is required in all cars. If it sounds best with EQ off then you must have set it incorrectly. As I said, you need to measure the response to get a baseline to work on. Cutting EQ will NOT produce any harsh sound, quite the opposite in fact. The most important thing is to get rid of peaks and differences between left and right side. Never encountered a car which didn't need massive amounts of EQ and I've installed between 20-30 cars.


----------



## WestCo

Well I am going to get a RTA program and mic and see what I can do. There is no point in getting irritated. It sounds good right now and will be better. 

*The important thing that prospective buyers need to realize is that they should plan on purchasing some RTA equipment if they want the most out of this deck.* That is probably true for other high end decks as well, but I was not anticipating needing it. Maybe many of you have such devices, I currently do not... lol That is gonna change. 

Really appreciate the discussion, more to come...


----------



## SkizeR

sorry to thread hijack but if anyyone wants to sell their p99 please PM me  ..


----------



## WestCo

SkizeR said:


> sorry to thread hijack but if anyyone wants to sell their p99 please PM me  ..


I am not ready to give up the fight on this deck just yet.
I will let you know if/when I do. Lol


----------



## 82801BA

WestCo said:


> I am not ready to give up the fight on this deck just yet.
> I will let you know if/when I do. Lol


Same here...


----------



## BlackCSVT

I'm sure the tuning effort will pay off. If I ever decide to add another amp, I'd pay retail for this deck just to have the control over the active crossovers.


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> AutoEQ enchanced midbass over the top for me. Did not like it.
> 
> EQ is required in all cars. If it sounds best with EQ off then you must have set it incorrectly. As I said, you need to measure the response to get a baseline to work on. Cutting EQ will NOT produce any harsh sound, quite the opposite in fact. The most important thing is to get rid of peaks and differences between left and right side. Never encountered a car which didn't need massive amounts of EQ and I've installed between 20-30 cars.


I agree with most of this but let me clarify about EQ for P99 users and the lessons I learned- 
1) DO NOT try to EQ over the autotune's EQ settings. I did this at first using the RTA and I got nowhere but in sound trouble- the autotune put such a severe curve that trying to correct it required overly deep EQ up and down the spectrum and it never sounded right- this is partly where the harshness / digital like edginess comes into play. it sounded artificial and harsh despite having a nice looking RTA curve. 

2) Turn off the auto EQ and set everything to zero. Now spend a week or two adjusting driver levels and crossovers. you should be able to get a very nice sound just by doing this.

3) Now it's time to EQ. In my car the RTA showed nearly flat from 400 Hz to 20 Khz once I fine tuned the driver levels and crossovers. It sounded very nice but the lower mid-bass was boomy and too pronounced.
I made some cuts between 100 and 400 Hz,
easy on each end, e.g -1db @ 100 leading to -4db @ 250 then back up smoothly to -1 @ 400 Hz. 

A few small cuts centered around 3K, e.g -1db @ 3.1K plus -1/2 db on either side of the 3.1K band. 

That' it.


----------



## avanti1960

WestCo said:


> Well I am going to get a RTA program and mic and see what I can do. There is no point in getting irritated. It sounds good right now and will be better.
> 
> *The important thing that prospective buyers need to realize is that they should plan on purchasing some RTA equipment if they want the most out of this deck.* That is probably true for other high end decks as well, but I was not anticipating needing it. Maybe many of you have such devices, I currently do not... lol That is gonna change.
> 
> Really appreciate the discussion, more to come...


I would say try it without the RTA first. A nice RTA curve can sound badly, and still need refinement by ear. So practice by ear. Start by switching off the auto-EQ and EQ to flat, and spend time finding the best crossover points and slopes, then level your drivers to come close to a smooth sound. You'll probably get pretty close with this and be left with a boomy upper midbass- then try some cuts centered around 250 or 300 Hz.

think in terms of slight adjustments- to levels, eq etc. i have gotten so used to my sound that i can tell when the rear speakers channels have been raised or lowered by 1-db. 

i think you can do it it just takes time- also (unfortunately) you need to do it while the car is running and moving- when it's parked you usually get too much bass because there is no noise cancellation. just be careful and keep your eyes on the road too.


----------



## WestCo

avanti1960 said:


> I would say try it without the RTA first. A nice RTA curve can sound badly, and still need refinement by ear. So practice by ear. Start by switching off the auto-EQ and EQ to flat, and spend time finding the best crossover points and slopes, then level your drivers to come close to a smooth sound. You'll probably get pretty close with this and be left with a boomy upper midbass- then try some cuts centered around 250 or 300 Hz.
> 
> think in terms of slight adjustments- to levels, eq etc. i have gotten so used to my sound that i can tell when the rear speakers channels have been raised or lowered by 1-db.
> 
> i think you can do it it just takes time- also (unfortunately) you need to do it while the car is running and moving- when it's parked you usually get too much bass because there is no noise cancellation. just be careful and keep your eyes on the road too.


Hmm... this seems danagerous. lol


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> DO NOT try to EQ over the autotune's EQ settings.


Indeed... In fact, avoid using the auto settings at all  (You never know what it does really, might boost 12dB at some dip caused by a mode lol?)

The harshness might very well have come from EQ boosts that clips the amp at certain frequencies, causing odd order harmonics (these sound nasty/harsh)


----------



## 82801BA

When I was playing with auto eq and manual eq...

With auto eq ON, I change to memories (all flat presets) and there's a tonal change...
then nothing changes when I put auto eq to OFF while in all the flat presets...So are you sure auto eq is in effect when I use the manual eq?


----------



## Niebur3

I read a lot about the "crappy" auto tune, and I have mixed opinions of it. With my crossover points, it is the actual definition of "meh". When I let it do the preset crossover points, all that changes and I get a huge stage with really nice results. With this, I would actually say it does a pretty decent job.


----------



## LBaudio

Unfortunately, no algorithm built into "auto tune" function cant rival human ear, also all this functions are microphone placement and mic quality related, so imho you wont get your system to sound best as it could this way.

switch off all auto settings, defeat all eq settings, time delay set to zero. First use RTA to set your xovers, levels and phase relations between drivers correct as much as you can. Shoot for smooth RtA curve with aproximately 20 dB fall from 20Hz to 20000Hz. Big Dips or peaks try to correct with xo settings. After that make adjustments on Eq to smooth curve even more. Set TA for desired seating position - you can find a lot of precious info and how too's about this subject of tuning here on this forum. Readjust EQ if needed.....now you should have pretty good starting point to fine tune your system by ear .... probably only small corrections will be needed here and there to achive sound you are after. When correctly set, all geners of music should sound good and correct. I suggest that you switch to active, so you will have more options regarding fine tune your system.

good luck with tuning


----------



## Krieger88

Mine should be here in about 12 hours depending on if USPS comes at their usual time. Want to hear a real bummer? I was looking at some previous sales of the ebay seller and I saw he sold 2 other units of this product within the past year and he accepted $750 and $800 from the "best offer" feature. That very feature was an option which I didn't try out of fear of someone else buying it first. God dammit -_- if shipping wasn't so annoying I could just return it, and buy it under a different name . (But whats done is done I suppose)


----------



## avanti1960

82801BA said:


> When I was playing with auto eq and manual eq...
> 
> With auto eq ON, I change to memories (all flat presets) and there's a tonal change...
> then nothing changes when I put auto eq to OFF while in all the flat presets...So are you sure auto eq is in effect when I use the manual eq?


auto eq is active on my deck when I do custom eq tuning. running my custom curve if I switch auto eq on, big change in sound.


----------



## Krieger88

Sooo I got my p99rs today and will be installing it tomorrow. How exactly do you connect things if you are running passive fronts, rear and sub? (obviously sub goes to the sub amp.) I'll go active if I really must (as I have no problem with it) BUT I'm not giving up rear-fill as it does make a difference to me..


----------



## 82801BA

Mid to Front and Low to Rear. Mid MUST be connected at all time and all others are just optional and can be turned off. I remeber the manual has some examples.


----------



## Krieger88

82801BA said:


> Mid to Front and Low to Rear. Mid MUST be connected at all time and all others are just optional and can be turned off. I remeber the manual has some examples.


So I leave the highs rca outputs unused then?


----------



## 82801BA

Correct. High is only for tweeter (and tweeter should only be used on that channel). I think the high pass cannot be defeated on that channel. In addition, the manual says that 10kHz+ will be played through that channel during auto TA/EQ. So anything connected to that channel other than a tweeter will not likely function properly. Similarly, putting tweeter in mid/low will likely destroy your tweeter during auto tune. The installation manual says so, so don't ask me why.


----------



## avanti1960

Niebur3 said:


> I read a lot about the "crappy" auto tune, and I have mixed opinions of it. With my crossover points, it is the actual definition of "meh". When I let it do the preset crossover points, all that changes and I get a huge stage with really nice results. With this, I would actually say it does a pretty decent job.


no kidding, I always thought the auto network picked weird crossover points and wound up sounding worse than when you picked them first. sounds like it's worth a try though, thanks.


----------



## Krieger88

Despite having my rear connected to the low rca they don't seem to be on. And i keep getting a bandpass error when i try to run auto eq too. :s


----------



## avanti1960

Krieger88 said:


> Despite having my rear connected to the low rca they don't seem to be on. And i keep getting a bandpass error when i try to run auto eq too. :s


try turning them on- here's how:
Initial Settings-
Function display
Shows the function status.
1 Press SRC/Off and hold until the unit
turns off.
2 Press MULTI-CONTROL and hold until
the initial setting menu appears in the display.
3 Turn MULTI-CONTROL to select one of
the initial settings.
Turn MULTI-CONTROL to switch between the...

Setting the speakers
You need to set the speakers used with this
system.
When this setting is performed correctly, this
unit reproduces high definition sound suited
to your system.
! You cannot change the middle range
speaker setting. (The middle range speaker
is always on.)
! If this setting is adjusted after performing
auto time alignment and auto equalizing
function, perform auto time alignment and
auto equalizing again.
1 Use MULTI-CONTROL to select
SP connection in the initial setting menu.
Refer to Adjusting initial settings on this page.
2 Push MULTI-CONTROL left or right to
select the speaker to be adjusted.
Each time MULTI-CONTROL is pushed left or
right, the speaker is selected in the following
order:
Subwoofer (subwoofer) Low range (low
range speaker) High range (high range
speaker)
3 Press MULTI-CONTROL to turn the selected
speaker on.
# To turn off, press MULTI-CONTROL again.


----------



## Krieger88

If you're speaking about the setting screen where it shows sp connection with high, low and sub then i have high off and the rest on but it doesnt seem to fix my issue. Also when i did auto eq a few mins ago now i get a error: subwoofer


----------



## Krieger88

Just reset audio data now its back at error: low band.
Edit: turned low rca off and tried the auto eq and it went through. Idk why the low aren't working.


----------



## Krieger88

If I end up having to sell my rears (morel integra ovation 5.25 coaxials) then I'm going to sell my fronts (rainbow vanadiums 6.5" 2-way) And I'd probably get something REALLY REALLY nice for the fronts. But I'd like to figure out how to get my current setup running first..


----------



## 82801BA

Do you bandpass your rear speakers? Can you post your settings?

And do you lower the gain on the amplifier on the rear channels?


----------



## Krieger88

82801BA said:


> Do you bandpass your rear speakers? Can you post your settings?
> 
> And do you lower the gain on the amplifier on the rear channels?


I don't think so. 
I think there's a problem with the wires or speakers because I reversed the rcas (rears to the mid channeL) and it still wouldn't work. I'm going to my audio installer (for more detailed projects than swapping a headunit) to see if he can figure the problem out. 

Idk if he set eq's by ear or with equipment( I've only seen him do it by ear.) but I really want to set this thing the best I can. Besides the Dayton Mic the Original Poster mentioned a few pages ago, what else is needed?


----------



## avanti1960

kreiger-
this is my setup for running RTA-

True RTA (i have the 1/6 octave version, the 1/24th is better though)
TrueRTA Audio Spectrum Analyzer Software 

microphone and cables:
Amazon.com: Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone: Musical Instruments
Amazon.com: Audio-Technica AT8314-6 Premium 6' Balanced Microphone Cable with 3-Pin XLR Male to 3-Pin XLR Female Connector: Camera & Photo
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009X45L/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i01

mic power supply-
Sterling Audio PHP1 48V Phantom Power Supply | GuitarCenter

good luck.


----------



## Krieger88

I have narrowed my problem down to that it has to be a wire I disconnected while removing my previous head unit. I've reversed the rcas, and tonight i reversed the speaker wires in to the amp. 

I FINALLY fiddled enough with the setting to where it sounds comparable to my previous setups best. 

I was thinking about selling my rear speakers and getting some midranges but then I got speaker fever and now I want to try out some hertz hsk 165's :S 

It's cool trying out speakers and **** but god damn is it an expensive hobby/interest :[

Rainbow Vanadiums may or may not end up on sale soon haha


----------



## Krieger88

Okay so my problem is solved and the rears are up and running. I will probably end up selling them sometime soon for some midrange speakers and get some custom a-pillar pods made for relocating the tweets and mounting the midranges.


----------



## s4k4zulu

Krieger88 said:


> Mine should be here in about 12 hours depending on if USPS comes at their usual time. Want to hear a real bummer? I was looking at some previous sales of the ebay seller and I saw he sold 2 other units of this product within the past year and he accepted $750 and $800 from the "best offer" feature. That very feature was an option which I didn't try out of fear of someone else buying it first. God dammit -_- if shipping wasn't so annoying I could just return it, and buy it under a different name . (But whats done is done I suppose)


 If u have any info of the seller. 
Been lookin on the bay but nothing listed.


----------



## Krieger88

s4k4zulu said:


> If u have any info of the seller.
> Been lookin on the bay but nothing listed.


Message this guy to see if he's got anything eBay My World - ehoff12179 . 


On a separate note, my installer is starting my project this week with modifying my door panels to have door pods to house my front stage in better locations and also to have spots for my 4" midranges I purchased. Going to have he doors deadened also. And lastly will be going active. Apparently the door modifications will take a while due to having to wait for things to dry and set.


----------



## FunkPnut

82801BA said:


> I found that if upper midrange (2-4kHz) is bright I would use a gap, [email protected] and [email protected], between mid and tweeter (I have tweeter on pillar), to smooth out the upper midrange.


I was just happening to re-tune my car last week by playing with crossover points and tried something very similar to this (2 kHz @ 18 db / 4 kHz @ 18db )... sounded surprisingly good!


----------



## 82801BA

I now completely dumped auto settings, not even auto TA. But I found the auto gain is useful though, so I can check it against my amp's setting to get best S/N ratio.

My current setup is all 6dB/octave. Sub at [email protected], mid [email protected], [email protected], tweeter [email protected] My car sound exceptionally harsh in 2000-4000 range (verified with individual tone) so I let the woofers roll-off and then tweeter take over, to minimize use of EQ. I align each driver by playing tones at the crossover frequency. Fun to hear the noise going around my head when increasing/decreasing length.

I have always worried that 4000/6 is a little too dangerous so I've never use it before. But several days have passed my tweeters (Dynaudio MD102) are still good. And I feel that 1st order filter actually minimizes phase change and is very smooth compared to 18 or 24. My subwoofer doesn't have a spike now around 63Hz, as it would happen if I use [email protected]

Any comment on my set up is appreciated.


----------



## FunkPnut

what exactly is auto gain?

interesting slope setup


----------



## 82801BA

FunkPnut said:


> I was just happening to re-tune my car last week by playing with crossover points and tried something very similar to this (2 kHz @ 18 db / 4 kHz @ 18db )... sounded surprisingly good!


It's likely not the woofer is harsh on that frequenies, but the tweeter, especially if they are mounted high up on the dash. I found that crossing tweeters up high would tame the region from 2k-4k and it does. My tweeters have peak freq at 1350Hz (resonance) and roll down -3dB at 4k, then go up again. My woofers start to roll-off at around 2k and they are >10dB down at 4k. So I think my choice of slope and freq is resonable.


----------



## 82801BA

FunkPnut said:


> what exactly is auto gain?
> 
> interesting slope setup


When doing auto EQ it also change the output of each channel to -1, -2, up to -24dB. You do it once, then figure out which channel they cut (ie. tweeter), then you either raise the tweeter's gain on the amp, or lower mid or sub. Then redo it until you find your output to be around -1, -2 and you can use it as your baseline. I now have my tweeter at 0dB and woofer at 0dB.

But it seems like it won't work if you have a gap.


----------



## rewillia

*DEX-P-99RS Hook-Up Recommendations*

Newbie here with little experience in terms of hook-up and installation of high-end and complex car audio systems.

I am seeking advice and recommendations on how to hook-up my new car audio system which I have purchased to place into my vintage 1988 Mercedes 560SL 2-dr roadster convertible. 

I am particularly interested to learn and gain advice experienced forum members, including you professional installers on how best to "maximize" my system hook-up, principally the amps, and obtain the absolute best sound quality possible (consider its a convertible). 

Here is the equipment I have purchased and are preparing to install:

1- Pioneer DEX-P99RS Stage 4 Head Unit
1- Pioneer GEX=P20HD HD Tuner Module
1- Pioneer CD-SB10 Sirius Sat Radi Module
2- Pioneer PRS-D4200F Stage 4 Amps (Bridgeable 4-channel amps)
1- Pair Focal 100KRS 4" Component, Low depth profile speakers, with crossovers and tweeters
1- Pair Focal 165 KRX2 6-3/4 Components w/crossovers and tweeters
1 - Pioneer TS-SW2501S4 Low Profile 10" Subwoofer
1 - Tsunami 5-Farad Capacitor
Streetwire 4channel RCA connecting cabling + 120ft UCT14 Streetwire

Because the vehicle is vintage (1988) and I want to maintain it near OEM condition (car has been fully restored with over $60k invested); 

- Front speakers will include the L&R 4" Focals mounted into the front of the dash replacing factory OEM speakers; front L&R tweeters will be custom mounted into the windshield header moulding that runs horizontally across the top of the A-Pillar/top of windshield. (image next to the inner ends of each sun visor);

- Subwoofer will be installed in a floor well area behind the passenger seat to include fabrication of a fiberglass/MDF enclosure (all to be hidden by rear cargo deck top cover).

- Rear Speakers will be the pair of Focal 6-3/4" components wiith the woofers installed in the top side of the rear cargo deck cover and with the tweeters installed at the top edge of the vertical rear cargo area side panels near the back of the 2 front seats (hope you can envision this).

- Amps, and Capacitor will be mounted in the trunk (same location of the car's battery).

My Question:

Since I will have 2-pairs of Component speakers as well as the sub, and 2-separate 4-Channel Amps (remember the DEX-P99RS head unit features 8 separate pre-amp channels)- how should I connect the speakers and do I need a third amp for the subwoofer?

I know I can use the crossovers that come with each pair of speakers (but should want to avoid that and wire directly using each of the available channels the HU offers, besides the DEX-P99RS features indicate I can and should) If I do this - I don't think I have enough amps to connect all (4 tweeters, 4-woofers and 1-sub?) 

Any recommendations will be appreciated; and some already recieved including:

- Wire front tweeters and 4 woofers independently using 4-channels 
- Bridge rear component speakers (tweeter/woofer) into 2 channels of amp no 2 and the bridge subwoofer to remaining 2-channels of amp no. 2

Alternative:
Buy a 2 channel amp (3rd amp) to host the subwoofer


----------



## Candisa

I see 2 options:

Headunit ch1&2 --> Amp1 ch1&2 --> front tweeters
Headunit ch3&4 --> Amp1 ch3&4 --> front mids
Headunit ch5&6 --> Amp2 ch1&2 --> rear components passive (tweeters attenuated as much as possible on the passives)
Headunit ch7&8 --> Amp2 ch3&4 --> bridged subwoofer

OR

Don't use the rear-tweeters and actually create a 4-ways setup instead of 2-ways+2-ways+sub:
Headunit ch1&2 --> Amp1 ch1&2 --> front tweeters
Headunit ch3&4 --> Amp1 ch3&4 --> front mids
Headunit ch5&6 --> Amp2 ch1&2 --> rear midwoofers
Headunit ch7&8 --> Amp2 ch3&4 --> bridged subwoofer

Personally, I'd prefer the last option. This way you'll be able to cross the front mids higher, playing better and louder, and use the rear midwoofers to fill the gap between sub and mids and get some dedicated attack in the midbass-range...

You might consider getting a pair of 8" dedicated midbasswoofers instead of that rear component-set. It'll save you money (no need to buy crossovers and tweeters you won't use anyways) ànd improve midbass output (because you're using bigger midbasswoofers instead of smaller midwoofers)...

Isabelle


----------



## avanti1960

*Re: DEX-P-99RS Hook-Up Recommendations*

I would run the front 4" off of the (2) mid channels, the front tweeters off of the (2) high channels, the rear component mids and tweeters passive off of the (2) low channels and the sub off of the (2) sub channels, bridged into one from your amplifier. 
please be advised that a 4" driver will not provide much bass and will act as more of a midrange, which could be OK but in a (2) seater you will definitely get competition from the rear (2) tweeters for stage localization. 
If this is the case you can run the DEX with a low pass to the rear components from the (2) low channels and cut out all of the mid / high frequency content. In other words, your rear components may want to be cut off above 400 Hz or so as to not cause stage pull to the rear. 




rewillia said:


> Newbie here with little experience in terms of hook-up and installation of high-end and complex car audio systems.
> 
> I am seeking advice and recommendations on how to hook-up my new car audio system which I have purchased to place into my vintage 1988 Mercedes 560SL 2-dr roadster convertible.
> 
> I am particularly interested to learn and gain advice experienced forum members, including you professional installers on how best to "maximize" my system hook-up, principally the amps, and obtain the absolute best sound quality possible (consider its a convertible).
> 
> Here is the equipment I have purchased and are preparing to install:
> 
> 1- Pioneer DEX-P99RS Stage 4 Head Unit
> 1- Pioneer GEX=P20HD HD Tuner Module
> 1- Pioneer CD-SB10 Sirius Sat Radi Module
> 2- Pioneer PRS-D4200F Stage 4 Amps (Bridgeable 4-channel amps)
> 1- Pair Focal 100KRS 4" Component, Low depth profile speakers, with crossovers and tweeters
> 1- Pair Focal 165 KRX2 6-3/4 Components w/crossovers and tweeters
> 1 - Pioneer TS-SW2501S4 Low Profile 10" Subwoofer
> 1 - Tsunami 5-Farad Capacitor
> Streetwire 4channel RCA connecting cabling + 120ft UCT14 Streetwire
> 
> Because the vehicle is vintage (1988) and I want to maintain it near OEM condition (car has been fully restored with over $60k invested);
> 
> - Front speakers will include the L&R 4" Focals mounted into the front of the dash replacing factory OEM speakers; front L&R tweeters will be custom mounted into the windshield header moulding that runs horizontally across the top of the A-Pillar/top of windshield. (image next to the inner ends of each sun visor);
> 
> - Subwoofer will be installed in a floor well area behind the passenger seat to include fabrication of a fiberglass/MDF enclosure (all to be hidden by rear cargo deck top cover).
> 
> - Rear Speakers will be the pair of Focal 6-3/4" components wiith the woofers installed in the top side of the rear cargo deck cover and with the tweeters installed at the top edge of the vertical rear cargo area side panels near the back of the 2 front seats (hope you can envision this).
> 
> - Amps, and Capacitor will be mounted in the trunk (same location of the car's battery).
> 
> My Question:
> 
> Since I will have 2-pairs of Component speakers as well as the sub, and 2-separate 4-Channel Amps (remember the DEX-P99RS head unit features 8 separate pre-amp channels)- how should I connect the speakers and do I need a third amp for the subwoofer?
> 
> I know I can use the crossovers that come with each pair of speakers (but should want to avoid that and wire directly using each of the available channels the HU offers, besides the DEX-P99RS features indicate I can and should) If I do this - I don't think I have enough amps to connect all (4 tweeters, 4-woofers and 1-sub?)
> 
> Any recommendations will be appreciated; and some already recieved including:
> 
> - Wire front tweeters and 4 woofers independently using 4-channels
> - Bridge rear component speakers (tweeter/woofer) into 2 channels of amp no 2 and the bridge subwoofer to remaining 2-channels of amp no. 2
> 
> Alternative:
> Buy a 2 channel amp (3rd amp) to host the subwoofer


----------



## rewillia

*Re: DEX-P-99RS Hook-Up Recommendations*

A-1960, appreciate you're advice/input....I am at loss given that I know nothing about the gains/low pass settings, etc....just looking for the best sound I can get....thats why I bought the Stage 4 equipment. I will likely seek out a professional installer to do the hook up...I can with confiidence install the speakers in the placements indicated...but again, will need to seek out an expert for hook ups to the amps, etc. and final tuning/setting. Know I have a lot to learn about the features of the Stage 4 HU and all the options it provides for setting speaker performance ranges, etc.

I also like your advice on the 8" midranges in the rear in lieu of the component set...but do feel I'll want the front tweeters so again, still abit stumped on the speaker arrangement. I can put anything larger than the 4"'s + tweeters up front (won't cut doors and dash / kick panels are a no go (remember its a classic/vintage car so I don't want to devalue it by doing any such mods)....i.e. cutting holes in doors, etc (besides the doors on the car can't accept anything larger than a 2-3" tweeter).





avanti1960 said:


> I would run the front 4" off of the (2) mid channels, the front tweeters off of the (2) high channels, the rear component mids and tweeters passive off of the (2) low channels and the sub off of the (2) sub channels, bridged into one from your amplifier.
> please be advised that a 4" driver will not provide much bass and will act as more of a midrange, which could be OK but in a (2) seater you will definitely get competition from the rear (2) tweeters for stage localization.
> If this is the case you can run the DEX with a low pass to the rear components from the (2) low channels and cut out all of the mid / high frequency content. In other words, your rear components may want to be cut off above 400 Hz or so as to not cause stage pull to the rear.


----------



## Krieger88

Finally got the project of proper speaker placement started and going 3-way active to get full use out of this head-unit. Now I have to figure out a way to do the rta, as I only have a sick-ass desktop and don't feel like getting a 1-use laptop. Perhaps I'll find a old one through a friend.


----------



## co_leonard

If you have an iPhone or iPad, see if you can get the iTestMic from Studio Six Digital. With an RTA app, you've got a killer accurate RTA. 

Details here: iTestMic | Studio Six Digital


----------



## stereo_luver

Krieger88 said:


> Finally got the project of proper speaker placement started and going 3-way active to get full use out of this head-unit. Now I have to figure out a way to do the rta, as I only have a sick-ass desktop and don't feel like getting a 1-use laptop. Perhaps I'll find a old one through a friend.


Get a netbook and use it just for your car audio. $100 used and in good shape.

Chuck


----------



## Krieger88

stereo_luver said:


> Get a netbook and use it just for your car audio. $100 used and in good shape.
> 
> Chuck


I'm just going to use my mother or sisters laptop. I'm currently having my door pods fiberglassed onto my door panels, but the damn Hurricane delayed **** for the time being with my installer. So currently I have no door panels or speakers until this project gets finished. Perhaps in the mean time I should read up on active crossovers


----------



## WestCo

Having problems with my p99rs... Started to get a lot of distortion when I switched the deck over to active. We will see what united radio has to say about it.


----------



## bospet40

Got a question for you guys. Im new to this forum but not high end audio gear. Anyway. I just bought the Dex p99rs. It's not installed yet, but it's on the bench being tested against my Alpine DVA 9965. Tuning both, I would say the Pioneer sounds better. My question is, many of my CD's are worn, I know but the Alpine plays them all without skipping, the DEX skips on known CD's that I know skips in cheaper factory radios. Does anyone else notice this? Thanks


----------



## jstoner22

I have owned both of those units. Both are fantastic. With that said, I have never noticed the P99 having issues reading discs. I've had mine since 09' now, and haven't come across a disc it had issues with.


----------



## bospet40

So would you think I should send it back for a replacement? It plays most of the CDs without a problem, the Alpine plays them all. Don't know what to do.


----------



## jstoner22

well you said yourself that the discs are very worn. Yes, I have never had issues, but as scratched up as some of mine may be, yours may be worse.

It just sounds like you need to reinvest in new discs.


----------



## bospet40

I hear what you're saying but why doesn't the Alpine deck have any problems with the worn CDs. I'm just wondering if the Alpine is a better unit in that respect or there is something wrong with mine. I really don't want to send it back if nothings wrong with it. I'm not going to be paying too many CDs in the future but that's not the point. You know what I mean?


----------



## avanti1960

never had a problem- although mine does occasionally drop out if i go over a really harsh bump (my car has stiff tires and suspension) and i do take care of my CDs.
do you have another player (home CD player, computer cd player) that you can test the old discs in? if they play on everything but the P99 i would think about getting a replacement.


----------



## bospet40

I am comparing the p99 to my dva 9965 side by side on the bench. The Alpine does not skip at all and the p99 skips on all the known cds that skip on my factory stock radio. I was just wondering if the pioneer is known for not being as good as the alpine. Overall the p99 sounds better so I want to keep it. I just bought it from Crutchfield so I want to make sure before I install it if this is a problem or not.


----------



## bospet40

Also I never owned anything but Alpine so I dont know how the others compare. I like the features of the Pioneer thats why I bought it. And I wanted more flexibility over buying external a processor for the Alpine. Should of kept my Alpine F1 Status.


----------



## Wesayso

Are those factory CD's or burned disks? I used to have problems with certain cheap burned disks and never had any problem again after switching to verbatim CD-r's.
That was on old Kenwood CD players and CD changers though. I've had some cd's burned in the early 90's that still play to this day. With factory CD's i've had only one quit on me since starting my collection in the 80's. I don't play much CD's in the car anymore. Everything I have is on USB anyway.
The reason I went with burned CD's is to not scratch up the originals in the car .
Took me a while to find a brand that just kept on playing. I do have a cheap head unit in the garage though that sticks once in a while, that problem is heat related though.


----------



## bospet40

1 is a store bought cd and the others are burned. They are scratched but the pioneer being high end should play them as good as the alpine of the same caliber. Dont you think?


----------



## wdemetrius1

bospet40 said:


> Also I never owned anything but Alpine so I dont know how the others compare. I like the features of the Pioneer thats why I bought it. And I wanted more flexibility over buying external a processor for the Alpine. Should of kept my Alpine F1 Status.


The Alpine 9965 has the F1 transport.


----------



## Hanatsu

Owned the P99 for 2 years now. Think I've played 4-5 discs so far xD

USB ftw

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## Wesayso

bospet40 said:


> 1 is a store bought cd and the others are burned. They are scratched but the pioneer being high end should play them as good as the alpine of the same caliber. Dont you think?


Only if the burned CD's are high end too . What I said, there is a big difference between junk CD-r and better types. I would'n blame the Pioneer.


----------



## bospet40

Lets put the quailty of discs to the side. The 9965 plays them all the p99 doesn't. This leads me to believe the Alpines CD internals are better?


----------



## bospet40

Yes and no. The F1 Status can also play DVD Audio the 9965 cannot.


----------



## IBcivic

bospet40 said:


> Yes and no. The F1 Status can also play DVD Audio the 9965 cannot.


Wrong!
Hint DVA****= dvd player(also plays DVA format)..CDA****= cd player


----------



## Wesayso

bospet40 said:


> Lets put the quailty of discs to the side. The 9965 plays them all the p99 doesn't. This leads me to believe the Alpines CD internals are better?


I wouldn't rate a CD player on it's abillity to read scratched disks. I wouldn't rate my own vision by looking through a scratched window.

Now if it would skip on bumpy roads, that would bother me.

I'd replace the scratched burned disks, but if you want to replace the P99, you're free to do it of coarse. 
As I said, my current Pioneer P88 RSII reads my burned disks from the early 90's but they are good quality and don't scratch easy. They don't skip, even on a bumpy road. I'd rate my suspension as pretty stiff. The disks claimed a lifetime warranty and live up to it. In all fairness, I've only used the CD player in the first year.


----------



## bospet40

IBcivic said:


> Wrong!
> Hint DVA****= dvd player(also plays DVA format)..CDA****= cd player


It's plays DVD, yes but there is a big differance between DVD with audio and DVD AUDIO DVD playback. F1 Status DVI 9990 plays DVD AUDIO the DVA 9965 plays DVD VIDEO with Audio playback.


----------



## IBcivic

bospet40 said:


> It's plays DVD, yes but there is a big differance between DVD with audio and DVD AUDIO DVD playback. F1 Status DVI 9990 plays DVD AUDIO the DVA 9965 plays DVD VIDEO with Audio playback.


You are correct, sir...my apologies :blush:


----------



## bospet40

Wesayso said:


> I wouldn't rate a CD player on it's abillity to read scratched disks. I wouldn't rate my own vision by looking through a scratched window.
> 
> Now if it would skip on bumpy roads, that would bother me.
> 
> I'd replace the scratched burned disks, but if you want to replace the P99, you're free to do it of coarse.
> As I said, my current Pioneer P88 RSII reads my burned disks from the early 90's but they are good quality and don't scratch easy. They don't skip, even on a bumpy road. I'd rate my suspension as pretty stiff. The disks claimed a lifetime warranty and live up to it. In all fairness, I've only used the CD player in the first year.


You do make good points. I still beleive the Alpine reads the CDs better than the Pioneer but I guess there is nothing wrong with my particular unit so I'll keep this one. The sound is amazing. I probably will hardly use the CD section but wanted to make sure it was perfect anyway. So what way do you guys use the USB for the best sound quality and to take full advantage of this decks capabilities? WAV? Let me know. Thanks again


----------



## Hanatsu

bospet40 said:


> You do make good points. I still beleive the Alpine reads the CDs better than the Pioneer but I guess there is nothing wrong with my particular unit so I'll keep this one. The sound is amazing. I probably will hardly use the CD section but wanted to make sure it was perfect anyway. So what way do you guys use the USB for the best sound quality and to take full advantage of this decks capabilities? WAV? Let me know. Thanks again


Mp3 encoded with lame vbr v2-v0 is practically equal to cd-quality. Wav/flac is overkill and there's no audible difference imo.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## jstoner22

bospet40 said:


> You do make good points. I still beleive the Alpine reads the CDs better than the Pioneer but I guess there is nothing wrong with my particular unit so I'll keep this one. The sound is amazing. I probably will hardly use the CD section but wanted to make sure it was perfect anyway. So what way do you guys use the USB for the best sound quality and to take full advantage of this decks capabilities? WAV? Let me know. Thanks again


ALAC played through ipod classic.

The ipod interface on the pioneer is stellar
Also you won't get any higher quality than that.


----------



## bospet40

jstoner22 said:


> ALAC played through ipod classic.
> 
> The ipod interface on the pioneer is stellar
> Also you won't get any higher quality than that.


I'm not into the Ipod stuff. And I didn't buy this high end unit to play MP3s either. I would think WAV is the way to go.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 11/17/12

After owning the DEX for 9 months I did something with it today that I had never done before- ran an autotune with automatic network. Why did I do it? Well here are some answers-

1) After 9 months I am still adjusting everything on the fly- tonality, levels, crossovers, time alignment, etc. and I am tired of it. I have a very nice sounding tune and stage- but it does not work for all music- and when I adjust for one (e.g. a bass heavy recordig) everything else sounds poor and vice versa. I want to run the DEX version of a nice tune and commit to it for a while. I am hoping for a nice sweet spot. 
2) I read somewhere that the auto network autotune can actually sound better than a custom network tune. Since I had done many custom network autotones and was never happy, i decided to give the auto network autotune a try.
3) Since first installing it last February, I have upgraded every driver in my car to the point where I am satisfied with their quality- and have upgraded the door sealing and deadening as well.
4) I have a hunch that the autotune can generate a more refined EQ than the 31 band graphic can- that it may be continuously variable for for frequency and Q- such that it may smooth out some bass "valleys" in my RTA plots as well as eliminate the touchy midbass resonance I experience from time to time.
5) I just felt like it. 

So how are the results? In a word bizarre but very pleasing. I definitely got rid of the midbass resonance issue. The bass is less powerful but the tones sound like tones- very realistic- . the midrange is more up front and dominant but with my new drivers there is a very pleasing clarity and tonality that I did not have before. again, a realism. the image and time alignment are not perfect but so far a little better than my best efforts. 
now for the bizarre part- the crossovers and slopes. lets just say that i (nor likely anyone else) would have ever picked some of these crossover points. it plays my HAT midbass all the way to 8Khz and crosses my L3SE midrange at 8K as well- but with a shallow 12db slope. very bizarre. it crossed my sub at 63Hz but with a very shallow 12 db slope. 
I played a variety of music and every song sounded good, some very good, and i will continue running this way for a while. 
I sure hope i am through ghucking around with it for a while.


----------



## 82801BA

I remember the days when I have the Dyn 100/140/2/160GT setup in my old car, my xo was 63/1600/8000. I now drop the 140/2 due to space, run auto, still 63/8000...

Sent from my GT-N7005 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Hanatsu

Autotune does nothing that you can't do yourself. Pioneer tech support said that two years ago when I asked that very same question. My conclusion is that both auto TA and EQ suck in 4-way mode. The EQ was horrible in my car. It EQed the crap out of my mids and everything sounded muddy. Some had luck with it, others didn't. Personally, I haven't heard any auto function that manages to EQ right so far. Alpines imprint was good at TA but the EQ was horrible there too. 

EQ from measurements are quite easy nowadays. Doesn't take more than a hour or so with a dual 31b GEQ. Apps like RoomEQ makes it user friendly and quick to measure and interpret the data.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## bospet40

avanti1960 said:


> Update 11/17/12
> 
> After owning the DEX for 9 months I did something with it today that I had never done before- ran an autotune with automatic network. Why did I do it? Well here are some answers-
> 
> 1) After 9 months I am still adjusting everything on the fly- tonality, levels, crossovers, time alignment, etc. and I am tired of it. I have a very nice sounding tune and stage- but it does not work for all music- and when I adjust for one (e.g. a bass heavy recordig) everything else sounds poor and vice versa. I want to run the DEX version of a nice tune and commit to it for a while. I am hoping for a nice sweet spot.
> 2) I read somewhere that the auto network autotune can actually sound better than a custom network tune. Since I had done many custom network autotones and was never happy, i decided to give the auto network autotune a try.
> 3) Since first installing it last February, I have upgraded every driver in my car to the point where I am satisfied with their quality- and have upgraded the door sealing and deadening as well.
> 4) I have a hunch that the autotune can generate a more refined EQ than the 31 band graphic can- that it may be continuously variable for for frequency and Q- such that it may smooth out some bass "valleys" in my RTA plots as well as eliminate the touchy midbass resonance I experience from time to time.
> 5) I just felt like it.
> 
> So how are the results? In a word bizarre but very pleasing. I definitely got rid of the midbass resonance issue. The bass is less powerful but the tones sound like tones- very realistic- . the midrange is more up front and dominant but with my new drivers there is a very pleasing clarity and tonality that I did not have before. again, a realism. the image and time alignment are not perfect but so far a little better than my best efforts.
> now for the bizarre part- the crossovers and slopes. lets just say that i (nor likely anyone else) would have ever picked some of these crossover points. it plays my HAT midbass all the way to 8Khz and crosses my L3SE midrange at 8K as well- but with a shallow 12db slope. very bizarre. it crossed my sub at 63Hz but with a very shallow 12 db slope.
> I played a variety of music and every song sounded good, some very good, and i will continue running this way for a while.
> I sure hope i am through ghucking around with it for a while.


I don't know about your system buy mine sounds like a concert hall on wheels. It's not the deck, I have the same one. But I also have a $20,000 set up. This deck is as good as my F1 status I had although not quality wise but sounds just as good.


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> Autotune does nothing that you can't do yourself. Pioneer tech support said that two years ago when I asked that very same question. My conclusion is that both auto TA and EQ suck in 4-way mode. The EQ was horrible in my car. It EQed the crap out of my mids and everything sounded muddy. Some had luck with it, others didn't. Personally, I haven't heard any auto function that manages to EQ right so far. Alpines imprint was good at TA but the EQ was horrible there too.
> 
> EQ from measurements are quite easy nowadays. Doesn't take more than a hour or so with a dual 31b GEQ. Apps like RoomEQ makes it user friendly and quick to measure and interpret the data.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


I don't disagree with you but for some reason (for me) the RTA does not tell a very complete picture with respect to sound quality. In other words the sound can be very different yet the RTA 6 position averages will only reveal slight changes to the curve depending on EQ settings. I can manhandle certain bands of the EQ and sometimes it does not even show up on the RTA for some reason yet the sound you hear is much different. 
-
The autotune I ran was not acceptable because my rear passives (on the low channel) were interpreted to be the woofers and band passed them from 63 Hz to 1600 Hz. My front midbass drivers were interpreted to be the midrange, so my front speakers were only playing from 1600 Hz and up! HOWEVER, there was something very different and pleasing about the sound. The vocals and midrange came forward and up in the mix. they were too buried before. 
So I measured the response with an RTA (very flat BTW with a gradual downward trend through the octaves). Then I revised the crossovers to something more approproiate for my setup, adjusted levels to get close to the curve, then did some additional EQ cuts and now I have somewhat mimicked the autotune curve but with all speakers playing their appropriate frequency ranges. After one CD i am encouraged by the results. The midrange vocal clarity is improved tremendously. The T/A image is also very good. Bass may be a little thin- but this is a new shift for my preferences and a reset in sound quality. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> I don't disagree with you but for some reason (for me) the RTA does not tell a very complete picture with respect to sound quality. In other words the sound can be very different yet the RTA 6 position averages will only reveal slight changes to the curve depending on EQ settings. I can manhandle certain bands of the EQ and sometimes it does not even show up on the RTA for some reason yet the sound you hear is much different.
> -
> The autotune I ran was not acceptable because my rear passives (on the low channel) were interpreted to be the woofers and band passed them from 63 Hz to 1600 Hz. My front midbass drivers were interpreted to be the midrange, so my front speakers were only playing from 1600 Hz and up! HOWEVER, there was something very different and pleasing about the sound. The vocals and midrange came forward and up in the mix. they were too buried before.
> So I measured the response with an RTA (very flat BTW with a gradual downward trend through the octaves). Then I revised the crossovers to something more approproiate for my setup, adjusted levels to get close to the curve, then did some additional EQ cuts and now I have somewhat mimicked the autotune curve but with all speakers playing their appropriate frequency ranges. After one CD i am encouraged by the results. The midrange vocal clarity is improved tremendously. The T/A image is also very good. Bass may be a little thin- but this is a new shift for my preferences and a reset in sound quality. We'll see how it goes.


The autotune does not average anything at the listening position. It's pretty inaccurate in setting a equal EQ left-right.

63/1600/8000 is a standard crossover setting in the P99. The drivers should be used in their optimal reproduction range. It's individual to each driver, placement and listening angle. Vocal clarity... if you're talking about female vocals, you have a problem with the upper midrange. I'm guessing here, but did you cross around 2,5-4kHz before? If you did then you could have some driver out of phase, RTA might not register that as a dip but rather as ripple when measuring. It's not rocket science, either the issue is in the time domain or frequency domain. Eliminate frequency issues with measurements and you know what to address. 

I can re-set my DSP settings 10 times but I always end up with a similar result since I'm following the same procedure every time. This how I did it on the P99, works every time 

1. Set crossovers based on frequency response at the target location. Measure each driver separately fullrange, (not the tweeter though) and see how they perform. Frequency domain is most important, but you can measure HD as well with aRTA for example to get the most of your drivers)

2. Set polarity between drivers (0/180 phase inv) Easy to hear what sounds best, possible to measure as well with the initial peak in impulse response, which is what auto tune does btw.

3. Set T/A

4. Set L-R EQ (Keep within 1dB if much as possible above 1,5kHz), below 1kHz it's not that critical since we're in ITD domain now.

With individual EQ DSPs (EQ on each driver) I use to EQ first off instead. Takes about a hour or so, you're using the AUX input on the front panel via a laptop right? Much better than using a CD with PN.


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu, thanks for the info. Comments and questions below-

Quote- "The autotune does not average anything at the listening position. It's pretty inaccurate in setting a equal EQ left-right"

Agreed. My comments meant that for me it is difficult to fine tune a correlation between an RTA plot and actual sound perceived by the ear. I measure with the 6-position average method. I can make drastic changes in the EQ, driver levels and crossovers and it will greatly affect how it sounds to the ear- but shows up as minor deviations on an RTA curve. 

Quote- "63/1600/8000 is a standard crossover setting in the P99. The drivers should be used in their optimal reproduction range. It's individual to each driver, placement and listening angle. Vocal clarity... if you're talking about female vocals, you have a problem with the upper midrange. I'm guessing here, but did you cross around 2,5-4kHz before? If you did then you could have some driver out of phase, RTA might not register that as a dip but rather as ripple when measuring. It's not rocket science, either the issue is in the time domain or frequency domain. Eliminate frequency issues with measurements and you know what to address."

Thank goodness it isn't rocket science because the last rocket i designed wound up in the lake. 
Why does the P99 pick 12db slopes across the board? Something about this sounds good. For some reason, the slope picked for the sub and midbass has a keen effect on the midrange and high frequencies too- I don't understand it. In other words the current 12db slope (sub crossed at 63, midbass crossed at 80) sounds very good overall- but when I switch to 80 / 80 each at 36db, the bass improves and tightens up- but the midrange and high frequencies are also impacted somehow- they do not sound as good. I don't get it. 

The other topic is the crossover point between midbass and midrange. If you have good drivers, you can pick a crossover point somewhere between 200 Hz and 6000 Hz for example. this becomes the dividing frequency of the door mounted system- above this frequency the upper door drivers take over, below it and the lower door midbass takes over. It seems like this decision needs to be made carefully and that there is more in play other than the driver's optimal reproduction range. 
My previous crossover point was 800Hz 12/18 db. I seemed to have lots of issues with reflections and image shifting with the upper door drivers playing 800Hz and up. 
I currently have it set to 5000Hz, tweeter crossed at 8Khz. 5000 Hz may seem like a waste of a midrange driver but it seems to sound better this way for some reason that I do not fully understand. Picking the right "dividing" frequency for lower and upper door drivers seems to be very critical. 

Quote- "I can re-set my DSP settings 10 times but I always end up with a similar result since I'm following the same procedure every time. This how I did it on the P99, works every time 

1. Set crossovers based on frequency response at the target location. Measure each driver separately fullrange, (not the tweeter though) and see how they perform. Frequency domain is most important, but you can measure HD as well with aRTA for example to get the most of your drivers)

2. Set polarity between drivers (0/180 phase inv) Easy to hear what sounds best, possible to measure as well with the initial peak in impulse response, which is what auto tune does btw.

3. Set T/A

4. Set L-R EQ (Keep within 1dB if much as possible above 1,5kHz), below 1kHz it's not that critical since we're in ITD domain now.

With individual EQ DSPs (EQ on each driver) I use to EQ first off instead. Takes about a hour or so, you're using the AUX input on the front panel via a laptop right? Much better than using a CD with PN."

It sounds like you have developed a nice system to achieve a tune that you like. When you measure each driver individually at the listening position, I assume you are looking to determine the range with the flattest response and set crossovers accordingly. 
I'm guessing if you do this, you could have different crossovers for the right and left side drivers? 
Polarity is something I just leave alone- unless it's for a distant driver like the subwoofer. 
L-R EQ I have had some success with and I plan on refining the image with this step. 
Are you talking about the pink noise generator in the RTA software? Why is this better than a pink noise CD? 

Interesting discussion, thanks.


----------



## Hanatsu

I never use steeper slopes than 24dB/oct fyi. The reason it sounds different is that there are less interaction between the drivers with a 36dB slope. You pulling energy away faster from the driver below/above the crossover point. With 12dB slopes you'll have a 180deg phase shift at xover, which creates a major dip in frequency response if left uncorrected. 12 and 24dB slopes are good cause they are easy to correct for and integrate right.
Steeper slopes than 24dB is pretty meaningless imo.

I use different crossovers each side. As long as you attain equal amplitude each side, it's a good way to perform some "pre-eq".

If some drivers are out of phase it will affect a large part of the staging (midrange). Might not show up on a RTA. I suggest to play around with polarity as well. My midranges are phase inverted vs the other drivers, sounded best in my system. Do it before TA.


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## Hanatsu

And pink noise is not always the same. There are mono/stereo types. Uncorrelated/correlated noise. Try the aux input and do a MLS sweep in aRTA. Do the result look the same as the RTA?

By simulating the auto EQ method you can gain some understanding how it measures compared to the averaged RTA.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## MB2008LTZ

New guy here. Want to know if you can use this deck in a 2-way and sub Active set up?


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## narvarr

MB2008LTZ said:


> New guy here. Want to know if you can use this deck in a 2-way and sub Active set up?


Yep! Just go into the menu section and turn off the high outputs and use the mid output for your tweeters. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## Krieger88

I hope my installer either finishes my door-pod project Saturday or next Wednesday so I have my speakers back and then I can go 3-way and active. Then I'll have to diddle the tuning for the next 9999years.


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## WestCo

Has anyone figured out at what volume the p99rs clips at. I think I can start to hear some distortion around 57. Right now I usually run the deck at 51 or so.


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## narvarr

The P99RS does not clip.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## narvarr

Take a look at this thread:
http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1346811

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## Horsemanwill

i was lookin for that


----------



## bospet40

WestCo said:


> Has anyone figured out at what volume the p99rs clips at. I think I can start to hear some distortion around 57. Right now I usually run the deck at 51 or so.


The p99rs is a tuner preamp you're most likely hearing clipping from you amps.


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## bospet40

WestCo said:


> Has anyone figured out at what volume the p99rs clips at. I think I can start to hear some distortion around 57. Right now I usually run the deck at 51 or so.


Also, I can't get my volume past 35 unless I stand outside the car. Sound pressure level is too much past that.


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## Hanatsu

It does not clip at any volume or EQ setting when I had connected to an o-scope. You sure that the distortion ain't related to speakers/amps?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## Raysclim

Does the P99 have a bright sound signature ? Some installer have comments that it is too sharp and bright ,will felt fatigue after prolong listening ? Any input on this ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## narvarr

Raysclim said:


> Does the P99 have a bright sound signature ? Some installer have comments that it is too sharp and bright ,will felt fatigue after prolong listening ? Any input on this ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


If the sound retrieval mode is turned on it does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## Hanatsu

Raysclim said:


> Does the P99 have a bright sound signature ? Some installer have comments that it is too sharp and bright ,will felt fatigue after prolong listening ? Any input on this ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Absolutely not. If it sounds "bright" it's a tuning issue and nothing else!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## nucci

Anybody have experience with iPhone 5 compability? Mainly what connection cord to use, and how Pandora/Spotify work.

I may have accidentally bought a P99RS without checking this first


----------



## quality_sound

jstoner22 said:


> ALAC played through ipod classic.
> 
> The ipod interface on the pioneer is stellar
> Also you won't get any higher quality than that.


The P99RS bypasses the iPod DAC so which iPod you use won't matter. 



bospet40 said:


> I'm not into the Ipod stuff. And I didn't buy this high end unit to play MP3s either. I would think WAV is the way to go.


ALAC isn't .mp3, it's lossless. A damned good one at that.


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## quality_sound

nucci said:


> Anybody have experience with iPhone 5 compability? Mainly what connection cord to use, and how Pandora/Spotify work.
> 
> I may have accidentally bought a P99RS without checking this first


AFAIK, stuff like Pandora and Spotify are BT only since the Lightning connection is digital.


----------



## co_leonard

My friend has an iPhone 5. Works with the P99 just the same as his previous iPhone 4. Also works with the third generation iPad. 

The P99 is a very good bang-for-the-buck head unit. Also competition proven where I'm at. 

Yes, there is a steep learning curve. But once you get the hang of it, tuning actually becomes straightforward.


----------



## jstoner22

quality_sound said:


> The P99RS bypasses the iPod DAC so which iPod you use won't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> ALAC isn't .mp3, it's lossless. A damned good one at that.





Yuuuup. Thats one of the greatest features of the unit (bypassing the DAC's)

I simply stated classic because its the ideal ipod imo. If utilizing a format such as ALAC, WAV etc, the high capacity comes in handy. No other Ipod offers 160gigs.


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## quality_sound

jstoner22 said:


> Yuuuup. Thats one of the greatest features of the unit (bypassing the DAC's)
> 
> I simply stated classic because its the ideal ipod imo. If utilizing a format such as ALAC, WAV etc, the high capacity comes in handy. No other Ipod offers 160gigs.


Ah, gotcha. I agree. My old iPod video is on its last legs so a classic might be in my near future.


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## ErinH

Has anyone tried to use the iPad mini with this deck? In general, I imagine most other decks operate the same. I'm wondering if you could use the iPad as a source and simply have it sit there and look cool. Most decks bypass the isource's interface entirely essentially locking you out of using it. I could test with my gen1 iPad but it's possible it'd behave differently.

Anyway... just wondering.


----------



## ErinH

Has anyone tried to use the iPad mini with this deck? In general, I imagine most other decks operate the same. I'm wondering if you could use the iPad as a source and simply have it sit there and look cool. Most decks bypass the isource's interface entirely essentially locking you out of using it. I could test with my gen1 iPad but it's possible it'd behave differently.

Anyway... just wondering.


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## jstoner22

is bypassing the interface the same as bypassing the DAC's?
with the P99 you can choose to still use the ipod interface if you like too.

lol, i'll try a mini in a few weeks with my new install if you don't have a definite answer by then


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## co_leonard

bikinpunk said:


> Has anyone tried to use the iPad mini with this deck? In general, I imagine most other decks operate the same. I'm wondering if you could use the iPad as a source and simply have it sit there and look cool. Most decks bypass the isource's interface entirely essentially locking you out of using it. I could test with my gen1 iPad but it's possible it'd behave differently.
> 
> Anyway... just wondering.


I suppose if the iPhone 5 works with the P99, the iPad mini would too. They both use the new "Lightning" connector. 

The P99 allows you to choose how to select songs from the iDevice. You can use the head unit, which locks-out the iDevice interface, or you can use the iDevice, making the P99 work like a simple aux-in. 

If I have a passenger who has his/her own iDevice, I set the P99 to the second mode. Otherwise, it is in the first mode.


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## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> With individual EQ DSPs (EQ on each driver) I use to EQ first off instead. Takes about a hour or so, you're using the AUX input on the front panel via a laptop right? Much better than using a CD with PN.


i just purchased a long cable to connect laptop audio to aux input- so i can generate pink noise from the trueRTA.

why do you think this is better than playing a CD with pink noise? thanks.


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> i just purchased a long cable to connect laptop audio to aux input- so i can generate pink noise from the trueRTA.
> 
> why do you think this is better than playing a CD with pink noise? thanks.


You'll have higher flexibility with direct control from a laptop. You can run several types of noise, sine sweeps, MLS sweeps - these you extract additional data from via FFT. These can be recorded inside an app like aRTA and saved as a wav file, a Memory card/CD can then be used for playback, it's just inconvenient. I recommend using aRTA in combination with RoomEQ, they have more features than most people asks for.

Major reasons why laptop generated is better than CD-PN:

*Easier control by far... imo
*Adjust level directly from the computer (including left-right channel mute)
*Look for resonances with generated tones
*Initial impulse can be used for measuring of T/A and phase
*Distortion measurements (sweeps and single tone via RTA)
*Group delay/waterfall/HD vs FR graphs/phase-impulse response measurements
*MLS allows for gated measurements (limited usability because of low resolution with fast gate times, which is required to eliminate sound contribution from early reflections)

-- Note that RTA/PN and swept sine are not the same thing. RTA in combination with pink noise plays all frequencies at the same time. Sine sweeps does only one tone at a time. Pink noise can be uncorrelated or correlated as well. Stereo noise is uncorrelated and mono noise is referred as correlated. Measure FR in stereo and T/A with mono PN if you use this approach --


----------



## narvarr

The only problem I see with using a laptop is that you FR from the auxiliary input is not going to be the same as the FR from the CD transport. There will be some degradation of the signal due to the fact that you are at the mercy of the analog source of the laptop which then goes through an A/D converter to be processed digitally and then back to analog. Makes more sense to me to start with the source that you will be using to listen to music. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## Hanatsu

For measurement purposes that difference would be neglectable imo.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## narvarr

Hanatsu said:


> For measurement purposes that difference would be neglectable imo.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


You would be surprised how much a half db makes in overall tonality...but then again, not everyone is building their system for competition either.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> You'll have higher flexibility with direct control from a laptop. You can run several types of noise, sine sweeps, MLS sweeps - these you extract additional data from via FFT. These can be recorded inside an app like aRTA and saved as a wav file, a Memory card/CD can then be used for playback, it's just inconvenient. I recommend using aRTA in combination with RoomEQ, they have more features than most people asks for.
> 
> Major reasons why laptop generated is better than CD-PN:
> 
> *Easier control by far... imo
> *Adjust level directly from the computer (including left-right channel mute)
> *Look for resonances with generated tones
> *Initial impulse can be used for measuring of T/A and phase
> *Distortion measurements (sweeps and single tone via RTA)
> *Group delay/waterfall/HD vs FR graphs/phase-impulse response measurements
> *MLS allows for gated measurements (limited usability because of low resolution with fast gate times, which is required to eliminate sound contribution from early reflections)
> 
> -- Note that RTA/PN and swept sine are not the same thing. RTA in combination with pink noise plays all frequencies at the same time. Sine sweeps does only one tone at a time. Pink noise can be uncorrelated or correlated as well. Stereo noise is uncorrelated and mono noise is referred as correlated. Measure FR in stereo and T/A with mono PN if you use this approach --


 thanks for the info. i am definitely going to try it. do you have any links for impulse measuring to determine T/A? I tried searching but could not find much. My truerta does have impulse.


----------



## 82801BA

Still have problems...

Anyone done auto EQ, single sub, resulting TA on left/right subwoofer are off by 7 inches?


----------



## narvarr

82801BA said:


> Still have problems...
> 
> Anyone done auto EQ, single sub, resulting TA on left/right subwoofer are off by 7 inches?


"Off" in what way?


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> thanks for the info. i am definitely going to try it. do you have any links for impulse measuring to determine T/A? I tried searching but could not find much. My truerta does have impulse.


There is one old thread about it here about measuring T/A. Can look it up later 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## WestCo

82801BA said:


> Still have problems...
> 
> Anyone done auto EQ, single sub, resulting TA on left/right subwoofer are off by 7 inches?


I had this unit for 4 months. It is nice, but you can do FAR better with an external processor and any head unit with optical out. The sound from my system is far superior than it ever was with the pioneer.


----------



## Raysclim

Which headunit you used that have optical output? And What processor that you are using? 

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## WestCo

Raysclim said:


> Which headunit you used that have optical output? And What processor that you are using?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2


Alpine dva-9861
And Arc Audio PS8

Honestly the sound is similar via RCA and optical output with that combo, but there is less noise via optical out. I had a much better overall sound when I switched. I need the ps8 controller to stick with optical.


----------



## WestCo

The rf 6.sixty; the mosconi 6to8, the Helix, even the alpine h800, would all be good choices.


----------



## co_leonard

WestCo said:


> I had this unit for 4 months. It is nice, but you can do FAR better with an external processor and any head unit with optical out. The sound from my system is far superior than it ever was with the pioneer.


The P99 just has a steep learning curve, and the Q of each of its 31 EQ bands is a bit wide. Also underlapping cut-off points in the crossover usually produces smooth response after RTA tuning. 

To each his (or her) own. If you prefer an external DSP, whatever floats your boat. 

For me, I've seen (and personally experienced) hardcore SQ competitions where cars with the P99 score higher than cars with external processors (Audison BitOne and Alpine PXA-H800).


----------



## WestCo

co_leonard said:


> The P99 just has a steep learning curve, and the Q of each of its 31 EQ bands is a bit wide. Also underlapping cut-off points in the crossover usually produces smooth response after RTA tuning.
> 
> To each his (or her) own. If you prefer an external DSP, whatever floats your boat.
> 
> For me, I've seen (and personally experienced) hardcore SQ competitions where cars with the P99 score higher than cars with external processors (Audison BitOne and Alpine PXA-H800).


If they had better speakers/amps and install, absolutely. I sold the unit to a gentleman in NY. Even he agreed that the pioneer sounded no better than his Kenwood unit when he ran them both passive. And yes I informed him that the deck should be ran active to get the best sound from it.

The raw signal from the p99 should be better for the price. But that's 100% my opinion. In the end it was a disappointment and I ended up selling it. I understand that there are a lot of people out there who disagree. I will not be buying pioneer again in the near future.


----------



## co_leonard

WestCo said:


> If they had better speakers/amps and install, absolutely. I sold the unit to a gentleman in NY. Even he agreed that the pioneer sounded no better than his Kenwood unit when he ran them both passive. And yes I informed him that the deck should be ran active to get the best sound from it.
> 
> The raw signal from the p99 should be better for the price. But that's 100% my opinion. In the end it was a disappointment and I ended up selling it. I understand that there are a lot of people out there who disagree. I will not be buying pioneer again in the near future.


I envy greatly a fellow SQ competitor with the Alpine D800/H800/C800 combo. Best of all worlds. Can play DVDs and sound really good at the same time. The D800 deck is hooked up to his H800 processor via an optical connection. This way, the RCA cables from the H800 to the amp are really short. Less than 3 feet for the longest connector. Bloody good sounding system!

In my experience, I too was initially disappointed at the P99. My previous head unit was the Clarion HXD2 (known in the USA as the DRZ-9255). I ran it 4-way full-active to Focal Power FP-series amplifiers to a Utopia Be No.7 "active" set. Also had the 27WX subwoofer. Then I upgraded the head unit's power supply capacitors to Elna Silmic II and it sounded even better. Capacitors in the deck itself were already Elna Silmic so I didn't bother upgrading those. As I recall, that deck sounded very good. Warm, detailed, insightful and really easy to focus on little musical cues that other head units miss out on. My next update would have been an Audison BitOne with the custom optical cable (Clarion opticals aren't Toslink), but a typhoon struck and the car went underwater in a big flood. 

5 months later, the car was back to running condition (care of a boatload of expenses at the dealership) and I had most of the audio gear refurbished and sold at a really low price. So I was driving 3-4 months without a radio. :laugh:

Then I discovered through a friend, the P99. 

For such a big space, the display was really too small. I mean compared to the big display of the P90 deck. Or even the old-school Alpine CDA-7998 which I used to own. Nice copper chassis, though. The RCA terminals were a big joke. Compared to the beefy and high-quality RCA terminals of the DRZ-9255, those of the P99 were better suited (IMHO) to a budget deck. The remote was a PITA to learn. Twists and turns and ups and downs and presses here and there. It was like learning to text all over again. Haha.. :laugh:

But with the P99, I learned how to properly RTA a car. I learned how to set slopes, cut-off frequencies and select the best phase. Not just by ear, but also by reading Vance Dickason's amazing LDC. My official audio bible, as it is.  Then by using TrueRTA in 1/24th-octave mode, I learned how each of the 31 EQ bands would affect the sound. In 1/24th-octave mode, it was easy to see how to get a "flat" baseline upon which to tune "by ear." 

Then I joined a couple of hardcore SQ contests and didn't do too badly. So did my buddies. During that time, we wanted to prove a point - that a well-tuned "budget" system using Asian speakers and amplifiers could compete favorably against big European brands. With luck, we managed to succeed a few times. There were 6 or 7 of us, all using the P99 head unit. 

There are times when other friends ask me to tune their system. These are people who don't compete in SQ competitions, but own really good gear. One of my friends has the Zapco DC-REFERENCE amplifiers. Two of them daisy-chained. The Zapco software running in his laptop. I used the same tuning method I learned with the P99 and they seemed to work. My friend likes how his car sounds. I thought this might be a good thing to try - an external DSP.

But I'm lazy to bring out my computer and there are times I like to tinker with the tune while driving - to suit different musical tastes. So (for me), the P99 is just right. 

The next best thing would be the Alpine PXA-H800 with the C800 controller. Yes you can use a laptop to tune, but with the controller, you can do everything the software can do. The BitOne needs a laptop, so I think the Alpine would likely be my next DSP. 

Just curious, why were you disappointed with your P99?


----------



## quality_sound

IME the D/H/C800 combo doesn't sound any better or worse than any other competently designed processor I've used. My 6to8, with input from my OEM VW HU sounds just as good (until the volume dependent EQ screws it up) and doesn't block my vents like the D800 did. 

The post about the Pioneer sounding the same as the Kenwood just proves the point that the source units is really the last thing to worry about. HUs have progressed to the point where any HU will provide a clean, flat signal. We use the P99RS because of the processing, not because the signal is any cleaner than anything else. Not liking it because the RCAs are not up to some imagined level of quality is ludicrous. They do the job and do it well. Putting Enkei wheels on your Fiesta won't make it a race car any more than "high end" RCA connectors will make your HU sound any better.


----------



## Wesayso

Hanatsu said:


> There is one old thread about it here about measuring T/A. Can look it up later
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


This one perhaps?
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/17-tuning-your-car-using-pc-based-measurement-setup.html

That's the one I remembered from long ago using impulse to set T/A.


----------



## Hanatsu

Wesayso said:


> This one perhaps?
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/17-tuning-your-car-using-pc-based-measurement-setup.html
> 
> That's the one I remembered from long ago using impulse to set T/A.


Yeah that's the one. You did the work for me, thanks 

They use WinMLS which ain't free, but it's basically the same idea with any impulse based program.


----------



## Hanatsu

quality_sound said:


> The post about the Pioneer sounding the same as the Kenwood just proves the point that the source units is really the last thing to worry about. HUs have progressed to the point where any HU will provide a clean, flat signal. We use the P99RS because of the processing, not because the signal is any cleaner than anything else. Not liking it because the RCAs are not up to some imagined level of quality is ludicrous. They do the job and do it well. Putting Enkei wheels on your Fiesta won't make it a race car any more than "high end" RCA connectors will make your HU sound any better.


I agree. P99RS got nice features and a nice DSP


----------



## co_leonard

quality_sound said:


> Not liking it because the RCAs are not up to some imagined level of quality is ludicrous. They do the job and do it well. Putting Enkei wheels on your Fiesta won't make it a race car any more than "high end" RCA connectors will make your HU sound any better.


Not to bash the P99 (which I use and love), but you gotta admit the RCA outputs of the P99 have room for improvement. Here's why:

I used to own this head unit: 









Check out its RCA connectors:









Easy to see QUALITY. The RCA harness is non-detachable (captive). They use metal-barreled machined female RCA connectors. Easy for "locking" RCA cables such as the Stinger HPM3 and Tchernov Original Balanced to hook up to. And its got transparent plastic shields so that plugged-in RCA cables don't come into contact with each other. 

Then I owned the Clarion HXD2 (DRZ-9255). 




























Its got the same machined metal-barreled female RCA connectors. The Clarion website even goes so far as to say that it is made from *silver-Coated SK:6N (99.9999% Oxygen-Free) Copper*. This thing OOZES quality.

Compare this to the detachable RCA connectors of the P99:










Not friendly (in my experience) to locking RCA cables. When I was removing it, I even managed to pull out the gold-plated ground from the plastic body when I forgot to twist-unlock a male RCA connector. Thank God the sound quality did not suffer when I put it back. 

My friends who also use the P99 have reported noise and alternator whine issues that were solved (cured) when the RCA harness was unplugged then plugged back in with slightly more force.

So again, please don't get me wrong. I am not bashing the P99. I have one. I even have the Service Manual (I actually have service manuals for the CDA7998R and DRZ-9255 as well). I love how the P99 sounds when tuned properly. In fact, my friends and I have won many hardcore SQ competitions with it.

All I am saying is that such an expensive head unit with so much attention paid to its INTERNALS probably _deserves a better RCA output connector_.

Peace!


----------



## avanti1960

Wesayso said:


> This one perhaps?
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/17-tuning-your-car-using-pc-based-measurement-setup.html
> 
> That's the one I remembered from long ago using impulse to set T/A.


thanks again to my European brothers in sound!


----------



## 82801BA

co_leonard said:


> Not to bash the P99 (which I use and love), but you gotta admit the RCA outputs of the P99 have room for improvement.


Last time I remove my P99RS with monster cable, one of the RCA shield was completely torn off. Had to buy a new harness from pacparts to make the whole thing work again.

I came from a CDA-7990 and the RCA looked exactly like the 7998 if not better. Never had any problem with that. P99RS is just a joke...Switch to this unit only because of versatility (7990 simply can't do anything beside CD/AM/FM).


----------



## quality_sound

co_leonard said:


> Not to bash the P99 (which I use and love), but you gotta admit the RCA outputs of the P99 have room for improvement. Here's why:
> 
> I used to own this head unit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out its RCA connectors:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy to see QUALITY. The RCA harness is non-detachable (captive). They use metal-barreled machined female RCA connectors. Easy for "locking" RCA cables such as the Stinger HPM3 and Tchernov Original Balanced to hook up to. And its got transparent plastic shields so that plugged-in RCA cables don't come into contact with each other.
> 
> Then I owned the Clarion HXD2 (DRZ-9255).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its got the same machined metal-barreled female RCA connectors. The Clarion website even goes so far as to say that it is made from *silver-Coated SK:6N (99.9999% Oxygen-Free) Copper*. This thing OOZES quality.
> 
> Compare this to the detachable RCA connectors of the P99:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not friendly (in my experience) to locking RCA cables. When I was removing it, I even managed to pull out the gold-plated ground from the plastic body when I forgot to twist-unlock a male RCA connector. Thank God the sound quality did not suffer when I put it back.
> 
> My friends who also use the P99 have reported noise and alternator whine issues that were solved (cured) when the RCA harness was unplugged then plugged back in with slightly more force.
> 
> So again, please don't get me wrong. I am not bashing the P99. I have one. I even have the Service Manual (I actually have service manuals for the CDA7998R and DRZ-9255 as well). I love how the P99 sounds when tuned properly. In fact, my friends and I have won many hardcore SQ competitions with it.
> 
> All I am saying is that such an expensive head unit with so much attention paid to its INTERNALS probably _deserves a better RCA output connector_.
> 
> Peace!


Again, unnecessary. If the cable you used pulled the shield out then your cables ends are too tight. There is ZERO need for them to be that tight. Monster does that **** and it pisses me off. The plastic covers over the ends are nice but again, not necessary. The RCAs being on a removable plug does add another connection point but it doesn't hurt anything. My D800 had removable RCAs and I LOVED that. I wasn't using them anyway and it really helped with the clutter behind the dash.


----------



## quality_sound

82801BA said:


> Last time I remove my P99RS with monster cable, one of the RCA shield was completely torn off. Had to buy a new harness from pacparts to make the whole thing work again.
> 
> I came from a CDA-7990 and the RCA looked exactly like the 7998 if not better. Never had any problem with that. P99RS is just a joke...Switch to this unit only because of versatility (7990 simply can't do anything beside CD/AM/FM).


Then get new cables that aren't unnecessarily tight. No RCA cables needs ends that tight.


----------



## ErinH

I actually REALLY like the removable RCA harness. It makes installing the deck much easier. I don't have to hold the deck/dash piece in one hand while connecting RCAs with the other hand. With the harness I just connect all the RCAs up, run the harness in to the dash area and then plug it in. Done.

I wish all audio companies used this kind of modular design. Like Alpine/JL/etc do for their amplifiers. 

Unnecessarily large barrel connectors provide no tangible benefit. Much less audible. They may look pretty but you're paying for pretty... in some regards I'm all for this. But not for an RCA jack that's buried in the dash...


And, given this is DIY site, to the folks complaining about the connectors, why not do like Jorge did and make your own? Cut the ends off the harness, solder up your own connectors and rock it. Problem solved. You can use whatever $5 boutique barrel jack you want and gain all the SQ you feel is lost with a standard RCA jack.


----------



## WestCo

co_leonard said:


> I envy greatly a fellow SQ competitor with the Alpine D800/H800/C800 combo. Best of all worlds. Can play DVDs and sound really good at the same time. The D800 deck is hooked up to his H800 processor via an optical connection. This way, the RCA cables from the H800 to the amp are really short. Less than 3 feet for the longest connector. Bloody good sounding system!
> 
> In my experience, I too was initially disappointed at the P99. My previous head unit was the Clarion HXD2 (known in the USA as the DRZ-9255). I ran it 4-way full-active to Focal Power FP-series amplifiers to a Utopia Be No.7 "active" set. Also had the 27WX subwoofer. Then I upgraded the head unit's power supply capacitors to Elna Silmic II and it sounded even better. Capacitors in the deck itself were already Elna Silmic so I didn't bother upgrading those. As I recall, that deck sounded very good. Warm, detailed, insightful and really easy to focus on little musical cues that other head units miss out on. My next update would have been an Audison BitOne with the custom optical cable (Clarion opticals aren't Toslink), but a typhoon struck and the car went underwater in a big flood.
> 
> 5 months later, the car was back to running condition (care of a boatload of expenses at the dealership) and I had most of the audio gear refurbished and sold at a really low price. So I was driving 3-4 months without a radio. :laugh:
> 
> Then I discovered through a friend, the P99.
> 
> For such a big space, the display was really too small. I mean compared to the big display of the P90 deck. Or even the old-school Alpine CDA-7998 which I used to own. Nice copper chassis, though. The RCA terminals were a big joke. Compared to the beefy and high-quality RCA terminals of the DRZ-9255, those of the P99 were better suited (IMHO) to a budget deck. The remote was a PITA to learn. Twists and turns and ups and downs and presses here and there. It was like learning to text all over again. Haha.. :laugh:
> 
> But with the P99, I learned how to properly RTA a car. I learned how to set slopes, cut-off frequencies and select the best phase. Not just by ear, but also by reading Vance Dickason's amazing LDC. My official audio bible, as it is.  Then by using TrueRTA in 1/24th-octave mode, I learned how each of the 31 EQ bands would affect the sound. In 1/24th-octave mode, it was easy to see how to get a "flat" baseline upon which to tune "by ear."
> 
> Then I joined a couple of hardcore SQ contests and didn't do too badly. So did my buddies. During that time, we wanted to prove a point - that a well-tuned "budget" system using Asian speakers and amplifiers could compete favorably against big European brands. With luck, we managed to succeed a few times. There were 6 or 7 of us, all using the P99 head unit.
> 
> There are times when other friends ask me to tune their system. These are people who don't compete in SQ competitions, but own really good gear. One of my friends has the Zapco DC-REFERENCE amplifiers. Two of them daisy-chained. The Zapco software running in his laptop. I used the same tuning method I learned with the P99 and they seemed to work. My friend likes how his car sounds. I thought this might be a good thing to try - an external DSP.
> 
> But I'm lazy to bring out my computer and there are times I like to tinker with the tune while driving - to suit different musical tastes. So (for me), the P99 is just right.
> 
> The next best thing would be the Alpine PXA-H800 with the C800 controller. Yes you can use a laptop to tune, but with the controller, you can do everything the software can do. The BitOne needs a laptop, so I think the Alpine would likely be my next DSP.
> 
> Just curious, why were you disappointed with your P99?


I reciently purchased a drz-9255 and I have high hopes for it.

I was disappointed with how it (p99) handeled the mids and highs, it's probably more from my personal preference. I felt that the sound should have been more "fully" and lacked warmth, that the processor gives me.

I loved the sound from my eclipse cd7200 and I have one of those that I am going to try with the processor. Maybe the rca connection was a part of my issue. I thought (mistakenly) that KNU made good RCA's, but they have been a real disappointment. 

The RCA outputs on the pioneer should be of higher grade, we agree 100% there. What brand of RCA cables do you use?


----------



## quality_sound

The ends Pioneer and Clarion use and the Knu cables you are using, unless damaged, are not the problems.


----------



## WestCo

quality_sound said:


> The ends Pioneer and Clarion use and the Knu cables you are using, unless damaged, are not the problems.


I am switching out to vampire wires to try and reduce some noise that I have.
Any suggestions?


----------



## WestCo

Also I havent tried the Clarion yet.


----------



## ErinH

sounds like you should cryo cool your wires. superconductor > standard rca cabling. I can get you access to LN2 or LHe if needed.


----------



## WestCo

bikinpunk said:


> sounds like you should cryo cool your wires. superconductor > standard rca cabling. I can get you access to LN2 or LHe if needed.


Can you explain this a bit more? lol


----------



## ErinH

Superconductivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Of course, I'm being facetious.


----------



## WestCo

bikinpunk said:


> Superconductivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Of course, I'm being facetious.


That's what I figured 
Happy holidays to you.


----------



## ErinH

it was a joke, man. all in good fun. no need to be ill.


----------



## WestCo

bikinpunk said:


> it was a joke, man. all in good fun. no need to be ill.


 I didn't mean to come off like I was.
I even lol's a bit.


----------



## avanti1960

bikinpunk said:


> sounds like you should cryo cool your wires. superconductor > standard rca cabling. I can get you access to LN2 or LHe if needed.


now we're talking! we should also run our amps and speakers at cryo temps- just be careful of the containment pressure from the liquid boil off-

imagine the power if our amps were stable at .000000008 ohms!


----------



## co_leonard

WestCo said:


> What brand of RCA cables do you use?


I use these RCA cables - click here: http://www.tchernovcable.com/p/en/original-ic

I'm sure you will enjoy your DRZ-9255. I surely enjoyed mine!


----------



## co_leonard

bikinpunk said:


> I actually REALLY like the removable RCA harness. It makes installing the deck much easier. I don't have to hold the deck/dash piece in one hand while connecting RCAs with the other hand. With the harness I just connect all the RCAs up, run the harness in to the dash area and then plug it in. Done.
> 
> I wish all audio companies used this kind of modular design. Like Alpine/JL/etc do for their amplifiers.
> 
> Unnecessarily large barrel connectors provide no tangible benefit. Much less audible. They may look pretty but you're paying for pretty... in some regards I'm all for this. But not for an RCA jack that's buried in the dash...
> 
> 
> And, given this is DIY site, to the folks complaining about the connectors, why not do like Jorge did and make your own? Cut the ends off the harness, solder up your own connectors and rock it. Problem solved. You can use whatever $5 boutique barrel jack you want and gain all the SQ you feel is lost with a standard RCA jack.


Erin, first of all, thanks for all your product reviews. I find them very helpful and educational. Much respect for you. 

It occurred to me that while other physically larger Alpine and JL amplifiers have standard speaker terminals, perhaps they used a high-current modular connector on the smaller PDX and HD amps because usual speaker terminals won't fit. I agree that a multi-pin connector makes installation easier on these amps. A friend recently installed a JL HD600.4 amp under the driver's seat and the multi-pin connector saved his spine from aching too much. 

With regards to the P99 RCA harness, the multi-pin connector is (for me) a possible weak point. While it does make installation easier, it is still a connector that may loosen-up and could gather corrosion over time. In two of my friend's cars, simply jiggling a fully-plugged-in connector sideways a tiny bit (a fraction of a millimeter) is enough to introduce noise in one or two channels. Personally, I feel the need to ensure the integrity of low-level signals coming from the head unit. With a non-detachable RCA harness factory-soldered to the PCB, there is one less thing to worry about. 

Happy Holidays!


----------



## Hanatsu

RCA harness look pretty decent to me, no issues with them. However I have one other complaint regarding the P99. The removable front and the damn connector. The display have blackened out, buttons not responding etc. Cleaned it with some ethanol a month back, but now it's the same issue again. I don't even remove the front or insert any CDs so it's a mystery how the connector somehow got... dirty lol. If you poke the front slightly up and down it works again so I know that's the issue. Too bad the warranty time has passed... =/


----------



## quality_sound

co_leonard said:


> Erin, first of all, thanks for all your product reviews. I find them very helpful and educational. Much respect for you.
> 
> It occurred to me that while other physically larger Alpine and JL amplifiers have standard speaker terminals, perhaps they used a high-current modular connector on the smaller PDX and HD amps because usual speaker terminals won't fit. I agree that a multi-pin connector makes installation easier on these amps. A friend recently installed a JL HD600.4 amp under the driver's seat and the multi-pin connector saved his spine from aching too much.
> 
> With regards to the P99 RCA harness, the multi-pin connector is (for me) a possible weak point. While it does make installation easier, it is still a connector that may loosen-up and could gather corrosion over time. In two of my friend's cars, simply jiggling a fully-plugged-in connector sideways a tiny bit (a fraction of a millimeter) is enough to introduce noise in one or two channels. Personally, I feel the need to ensure the integrity of low-level signals coming from the head unit. With a non-detachable RCA harness factory-soldered to the PCB, there is one less thing to worry about.
> 
> Happy Holidays!


The JL XDs use standard terminals and they're smaller than the HDs.


----------



## t3sn4f2

IF anything I think they should have made the P99's harness longer by like a foot. I can think of 20 better places to put the RCA junction Biddle that isn't in the tight space right behind the head unit. And instead of making the plug in a traditional high quality way I would have redesigned them for a car audio specific application. Make them as small and thin as possible, and put an extra long boot on them so they cover the RCA cables plug that you are using as well.

Get the funds for that budget by saving on the worthless copper finish.


----------



## quality_sound

Are you sure it's not a full copper chassis? I'd think the copper chassis would be more effective now that in the 90s with how many computers and high voltage lines that are in cars now.


----------



## t3sn4f2

quality_sound said:


> Are you sure it's not a full copper chassis? I'd think the copper chassis would be more effective now that in the 90s with how many computers and high voltage lines that are in cars now.


Not sure, but if anything it would have to be some type of allow since cooper is too soft. From what I understand though it doesn't have to be copper, if it did then they would all have to bring it. Don''t think all companies would put out a product that was susceptible to that. Some don't have metal cages period, they use plastic with metalized paint on the interior. Dunno if you remember the problem with the first bitones were they recommended the some of the paint be scratched off to keep the case from shorting on the signal or usb ground IIRC.


----------



## matyj

Heya guys, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, you all seem to have quite a bit of exp with this unit, im very very new to it! i posted this as a new thread as well but its driving me nuts and id love an answer as soon as i can get one! 

Ive hooked up a 4 way active setup to my p99rs, all focal utopia, atm we're having difficulties getting into the audio options menu (May have grounded the door wire so ATT is on all the time, locking me out of all audio settings ie crossover, ta, eq etc) my amps filters are on atm, but id like to turn them off! does the p99rs come with standard crossover points for each of the inputs. They're marked high, mid, low, sub, every things hooked in the right way. Id assume a deck as good as this would have a standard crossover for each of the outputs to protect the speakers when you first turn it on. I just dont want to turn the amp filters off and blow my tweeters. if anyone knows anything please help! very little info on this unit here in perth :S


----------



## Hanatsu

The "HIGH" channel cannot be set lower than 800Hz/6dB. It's all in the manual.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Car/DEX-P99RS_OperationManual0428.pdf - Page 28


----------



## matyj

thats pretty low for a tweeter :l damagingly low I think? should i leave my amp filter on for the tweeter??


----------



## Hanatsu

matyj said:


> thats pretty low for a tweeter :l damagingly low I think? should i leave my amp filter on for the tweeter??


I just said that it won't go lower. I believe stardard setting is 6300Hz/12dB 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hello everyone ..... Does anyone know whether the p99 can play audio files in FLAC format.....I tried but no luck......now I guess I have to convert them to 320kpbs format. As I am in the process of ripping my.cds to preferably flac for my USB
As carrying so many cds around is a bit inconvenient. Thanks


----------



## subwoofery

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Hello everyone ..... Does anyone know whether the p99 can play audio files in FLAC format.....I tried but no luck......now I guess I have to convert them to 320kpbs format. As I am in the process of ripping my.cds to preferably flac for my USB
> As carrying so many cds around is a bit inconvenient. Thanks


Only 2 HU in existence play .flac files and the P99RS isn't one of them... 

Kelvin


----------



## co_leonard

subwoofery said:


> Only 2 HU in existence play .flac files and the P99RS isn't one of them...
> 
> Kelvin


Yup. Sad but true. 

Convert them to WAV. I use Foobar to do this. Then I file them in an external hard drive.

Just make sure to convert your FLACs to 16bit/44.1kHz WAV files, and use a USB 2.0 hard drive with a maximum partition size of of 250GB formatted to FAT32.


----------



## t3sn4f2

co_leonard said:


> Yup. Sad but true.
> 
> Convert them to WAV. I use Foobar to do this. Then I file them in an external hard drive.
> 
> Just make sure to convert your FLACs to 16bit/44.1kHz WAV files, and use a USB 2.0 hard drive with a maximum partition size of of 250GB formatted to FAT32.


x2

If you absolutely must have "uncompressed" quality and can live with the added file size over lossless, then WAV is the only option.


----------



## Hanatsu

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Hello everyone ..... Does anyone know whether the p99 can play audio files in FLAC format.....I tried but no luck......now I guess I have to convert them to 320kpbs format. As I am in the process of ripping my.cds to preferably flac for my USB
> As carrying so many cds around is a bit inconvenient. Thanks


I recommend VBR Mp3 v0 or v1 (223k~). Pretty much CD quality and takes up much less space


----------



## Wesayso

To be closer to your lossless goal I bet the P99RS also plays AAC converted at close to 400 kbps. I run my P88RS with aac 380 kbps with a CD UB100 USB. Still lossy though but very close to CD quality. Space is cheap right?
I thought the p99RS could play wav trough USB? Too bad flac is not an option yet.


----------



## Hanatsu

Wesayso said:


> To be closer to your lossless goal I bet the P99RS also plays AAC converted at close to 400 kbps. I run my P88RS with aac 380 kbps with a CD UB100 USB. Still lossy though but very close to CD quality. Space is cheap right?
> I thought the p99RS could play wav trough USB? Too bad flac is not an option yet.


Here's from the manual. My only space concern is when I have over 2000 songs on an iPod. iPod space ain't cheap 

MP3 decoding format ...........MPEG-1 & 2 Audio Layer 3

WMA decoding format ......... Ver. 7, 7.1, 8, 9, 10, 11 (2ch
audio) (Windows Media Player)

AAC decoding format ............MPEG-4 AAC (iTunes encoded
only) (.m4a) (Ver. 7.7 and earlier)

WAV signal format .................. Linear PCM & MS ADPCM (Non-compressed)


----------



## quality_sound

Get an iPod classic. 160 gigs will hold a loooooot of AAC files and apple lossless is as good as it gets.


----------



## Hanatsu

iPod touch ftw. Nevah gonna have a classic. Just bought a 32gb iPod touch gen5 xD


----------



## quality_sound

Hanatsu said:


> iPod touch ftw. Nevah gonna have a classic. Just bought a 32gb iPod touch gen5 xD



For in-car use there's nothing better than the classic.


----------



## co_leonard

Wesayso said:


> I thought the p99RS could play wav trough USB?


Yes it can. The P99RS can play WAV files through USB. 

My wife has a 64GB iPod Touch and i have a 120GB iPod classic. I can hook these up to the P99RS via its USB port. Out of the hundreds of albums on these iDevices, only one or two are in WAV. The others are mostly in MP3 or AAC format. I normally don't use WAV on iDevices because:
1. No metadata in WAV files - meaning no album art and song information.
2. iPod space is expensive and limited. 

For my P99RS, I use a old CHEAP 500GB external USB hard drive. Cheap meaning I bought it brand new for under US$40. Its a Samsung USB 2.0 hard drive that I cut into two FAT32 partitions. The P99RS "sees" only the first partition. This is good for me because that's where I file all the songs I want to hear at the moment. Then I use my computer to move to the second partition the songs I'm tired of hearing but want to keep. 

All the songs on that hard drive are in WAV format, ripped from the original CDs using Exact Audio Copy.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Thanks everyone for the responses.........Well I tried a few different options and thought I would post my progress below..........


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

subwoofery said:


> Only 2 HU in existence play .flac files and the P99RS isn't one of them...
> 
> Kelvin


okay so then which are the 2 hu that play flac files?


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

So first using Exact Audio Copy an older version I ripped a test cd to 320kpbs.....

But there was a huge difference between that and CD quality. I kept the original cd and my usb ripped version of it and alternatively played them.

320kpbs songs to me lacked depth, punch and detail and seemed "light" if I could explain it that way. No patch on cd


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

co_leonard said:


> Yup. Sad but true.
> 
> Convert them to WAV. I use Foobar to do this. Then I file them in an external hard drive.
> 
> Just make sure to convert your FLACs to 16bit/44.1kHz WAV files, and use a USB 2.0 hard drive with a maximum partition size of of 250GB formatted to FAT32.


Thanks. I did exactly what you said. But used Switch Sound file converter to convert the Flac files into 16bit/44.1 wav files. 

I still noticed a difference. Not as much as the 320kpbs songs vs CD.

Some people say its a placebo but I definitely heard a difference in CD vs. Wav.

I would say at most a 5% difference but it was still there.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

t3sn4f2 said:


> x2
> 
> If you absolutely must have "uncompressed" quality and can live with the added file size over lossless, then WAV is the only option.


Are you sure that the WAV files are exact CD quality . I mean they take up alot of space so I assume they are but I did notice a difference as I mentioned above. 

My CD songs just sounded as if they had more depth and punch . The WAV files of the same songs seemed to lack that and seemed more electronic. 

If you are sure that it is an exact replica I do not mind purchasing the external hard drive USB maybe go for one with 3.0

Is the external USB option compatible with the P99. Do you plug it with a wire into the USB jack in the dashboard?

And is there any specific model that is compatible with the P99?


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Wesayso said:


> To be closer to your lossless goal I bet the P99RS also plays AAC converted at close to 400 kbps. I run my P88RS with aac 380 kbps with a CD UB100 USB. Still lossy though but very close to CD quality. Space is cheap right?
> I thought the p99RS could play wav trough USB? Too bad flac is not an option yet.


I guess FLAC compatibility would solve the issue easily. Flac sounds beautiful even on my computer........


----------



## co_leonard

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Are you sure that the WAV files are exact CD quality . I mean they take up alot of space so I assume they are but I did notice a difference as I mentioned above.
> 
> My CD songs just sounded as if they had more depth and punch . The WAV files of the same songs seemed to lack that and seemed more electronic.
> 
> If you are sure that it is an exact replica I do not mind purchasing the external hard drive USB maybe go for one with 3.0
> 
> Is the external USB option compatible with the P99. Do you plug it with a wire into the USB jack in the dashboard?
> 
> And is there any specific model that is compatible with the P99?


When I used Foobar to convert 24/96 FLAC to 16/44.1 WAV, yes there was a difference when heard on good-quality headphones and on my home audio system. A little narrower stage width. Slightly shallower stage depth. Some loss of low-level details. But I don't have that many 24/96 FLACs to begin with. 

When I used EXACT AUDIO COPY in "Secure Mode" to rip an original audio CD to WAV, there was no audible difference both on headphones and on my home audio system. EAC is the defacto standard for converting "Red Book" CD audio to WAV. 

So these WAV files are what makes it on to the USB hard drive that I use with my P99RS. 

On another note, my friends and I have tested several USB 3.0 hard drives with the P99. Seagate, Western Digital and Samsung. All three will work as long as it is plugged directly into the USB lead of the P99 - not using the USB extension cable that comes with the P99. When this cable is used, the P99 was unable to read the USB 3.0 hard drive.

But USB 2.0 works every time.


----------



## subwoofery

Tropikal_Knights said:


> okay so then which are the 2 hu that play flac files?


There is/was a Sony Xplod HU that is able to play .flac files and for 2013, Kenwood is releasing, an entry level unit , that can play .flac files <-- download the catalog to see the HU # 

Kelvin


----------



## Wesayso

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Thanks. I did exactly what you said. But used Switch Sound file converter to convert the Flac files into 16bit/44.1 wav files.
> 
> I still noticed a difference. Not as much as the 320kpbs songs vs CD.
> 
> Some people say its a placebo but I definitely heard a difference in CD vs. Wav.
> 
> I would say at most a 5% difference but it was still there.


There shouldn't be differences between flac and wav as both are lossless. You might want to check if both sources were played back with the same decibel level. USB is a different source from CD and the dB levels should be exactly the same to compare both. In most head units different sources can have different level settings. I know I can adjust each input on my HU.
But as a musical source signal it shouldn't differ. As long as both files are in the same format, for example 16 bit 44.1 khz.
Most precieved differences come from playing 2 tracks at a different dB level.
The loudest usually gets the vote.

If you take a 16 bit 44.1 khz flac, convert it to wav 16 bit 44.1 khz and back to flac 16 bit 44.1 khz the file should be exactly the same.


----------



## Hanatsu

Lossless is lossless independent on format 

Lots of mp3 bashing here. I will post some data tomorrow on mp3 vs lossless and show you what the differences are by measurements!

Many downloaded mp3s are encoded with bad settings/codecs. Joint stereo is one of the things...


----------



## prettysweetsounds

Hmm..is this still a p99rs review/discovery thread?


----------



## Hanatsu

Didn't intend to post here... 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

co_leonard said:


> When I used Foobar to convert 24/96 FLAC to 16/44.1 WAV, yes there was a difference when heard on good-quality headphones and on my home audio system. A little narrower stage width. Slightly shallower stage depth. Some loss of low-level details. But I don't have that many 24/96 FLACs to begin with.
> 
> When I used EXACT AUDIO COPY in "Secure Mode" to rip an original audio CD to WAV, there was no audible difference both on headphones and on my home audio system. EAC is the defacto standard for converting "Red Book" CD audio to WAV.
> 
> So these WAV files are what makes it on to the USB hard drive that I use with my P99RS.
> 
> On another note, my friends and I have tested several USB 3.0 hard drives with the P99. Seagate, Western Digital and Samsung. All three will work as long as it is plugged directly into the USB lead of the P99 - not using the USB extension cable that comes with the P99. When this cable is used, the P99 was unable to read the USB 3.0 hard drive.
> 
> But USB 2.0 works every time.



Well I converted directly to WAV format from the CD. The quality was a bit better than before but still not like CD quality. Better than when I recorded them into FLAC and then converted from that. 

In EAC the wav tab....there are two options high and low quality cant seem to click the high quality one ...dont know what the issue is.......

thanks for the 2.0 hard drive heads up.......

think I might try foobar and see if I can get exact cd quality


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

prettysweetsounds said:


> Hmm..is this still a p99rs review/discovery thread?


I have been using a p99 for the last 6 months and indeed have many queries on it which I will post later......just was trying to get some guidance from people who have converted their music to something portable without sacrificing any quality. With the 99 want to hear every note in my music to the fullest.


----------



## Hanatsu

I made a post about lossy audio formats btw:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/142602-lossy-vs-lossless-formats-audibility-threshold.html


----------



## Krieger88

Is anyone else peeved that the display doesn't change colors like the trim of the knobs do? Why the hell wouldn't Pioneer make that an option?


----------



## Wesayso

Tropikal_Knights said:


> I have been using a p99 for the last 6 months and indeed have many queries on it which I will post later......just was trying to get some guidance from people who have converted their music to something portable without sacrificing any quality. With the 99 want to hear every note in my music to the fullest.


Wav will not sacrifice any quality as long as the ripping tool or transcoding software doesn't mess it up.

Take your favorite CD, rip it with something like the EAC (Exact Audio Copy) ripping tool to wav. Burn the wav files to a CD-r and compare both CD's. That should give you your answer. Oh yeah, make sure someone other than you loads the CD's for that test so you don't know what CD is actually playing. That alone can make a very big difference!


----------



## avanti1960

Krieger88 said:


> Is anyone else peeved that the display doesn't change colors like the trim of the knobs do? Why the hell wouldn't Pioneer make that an option?


not an issue for me. i think pioneer wanted to go the way of clean minimalism with the styling- emphasizing the sound quality rather than the glitz. 

occasionally i see those double din touch screen units and think they do look pretty cool - and then i see my nice clean understated P99 in my dash and hear the clean amazing sound of the music and i realize there is no contest. 

if i had to request some changes for the next version of the P99 here are some for starters-

*9 channels- sum the extra one for subwoofer duty. would really love a 3-way active front stage and rear full fill. 

*double din with a larger, non touch screen display. 

*integrated RTA with generator and programmable frequency curves

*bluetooth integration for enhanced remote tuning control via laptop, tablet or phone.

*state of the art DSP software ap with multiple dialog boxes and controls open for every network- one-page tuning- minimize the amount of menu steps / buried menus required for tuning

*integrated HD radio. 

*front panel usb and aux access


----------



## quality_sound

I was with you until you said front panel USB/aux input. I think that is the tackiest, cheap-ass thing ever on a HU. Nothing says high end HU like an add-on cable jutting out of the front of it. 

I like everything else though.


----------



## avanti1960

quality_sound said:


> I was with you until you said front panel USB/aux input. I think that is the tackiest, cheap-ass thing ever on a HU. Nothing says high end HU like an add-on cable jutting out of the front of it.
> 
> I like everything else though.


good point- do the work and route the cable from the back, i agree. 

but a nice clean SD card slot in the front I could live with. 

i didn't think about this but i would like to keep the motorized display door even if it were a double din, half of it could open.
the card slot would be behind the display / door.


----------



## quality_sound

Exactly what I was thinking. VW actual integrated the SD card slot very well on their OEM HU. Pioneer does as well. 
Like you, of prefer it behind the face like Kenwood does. Alpine too, I think.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

avanti1960 said:


> not an issue for me. i think pioneer wanted to go the way of clean minimalism with the styling- emphasizing the sound quality rather than the glitz.
> 
> occasionally i see those double din touch screen units and think they do look pretty cool - and then i see my nice clean understated P99 in my dash and hear the clean amazing sound of the music and i realize there is no contest.
> 
> if i had to request some changes for the next version of the P99 here are some for starters-
> 
> *9 channels- sum the extra one for subwoofer duty. would really love a 3-way active front stage and rear full fill.
> 
> *double din with a larger, non touch screen display.
> 
> *integrated RTA with generator and programmable frequency curves
> 
> *bluetooth integration for enhanced remote tuning control via laptop, tablet or phone.
> 
> *state of the art DSP software ap with multiple dialog boxes and controls open for every network- one-page tuning- minimize the amount of menu steps / buried menus required for tuning
> 
> *integrated HD radio.
> 
> *front panel usb and aux access



props on the DSP software and bluetooth. BT would have been real handy for such a high end unit


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Wesayso said:


> Wav will not sacrifice any quality as long as the ripping tool or transcoding software doesn't mess it up.
> 
> Take your favorite CD, rip it with something like the EAC (Exact Audio Copy) ripping tool to wav. Burn the wav files to a CD-r and compare both CD's. That should give you your answer. Oh yeah, make sure someone other than you loads the CD's for that test so you don't know what CD is actually playing. That alone can make a very big difference!




Well I ripped the CD and played it back ......took a blind test.......had a friend do it......results I noticed a big difference.....the original cd still sounded way better......

the software used was Exact Audio Copy.....Dunno I think I may just stick to using original cds have tried everything else


----------



## MacLeod

The things I'd ask for is first and foremost presets. Wish to God I could slap together one tune with X-overs, TA and EQ and compare it with one that's different. So much easier when you can just switch between them. 

Why oh why is half the display blank? Drives me insane that the clock and track number are so small that I can barely see them. Why are they so tiny and stuck in the top of the screen with the bottom 2/3 of the screen mostly blank. 

Better remote or at least better UI. Make it not so maddening to work in the audio settings. You have to use the remote because you can't see any other buttons and the knobs are so short that you can't turn them unless you have fingers the size of a 10 year old's.

Other than that I absolutely love this near work of art Pioneer has put together. 

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Wesayso

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Well I ripped the CD and played it back ......took a blind test.......had a friend do it......results I noticed a big difference.....the original cd still sounded way better......
> 
> the software used was Exact Audio Copy.....Dunno I think I may just stick to using original cds have tried everything else


Did you burn a CD from those wav files? If not, then there are other reasons possible for your findings. Have a friend swap CD's on you a few times without telling you what you are listening to.


----------



## Hanatsu

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Well I ripped the CD and played it back ......took a blind test.......had a friend do it......results I noticed a big difference.....the original cd still sounded way better......
> 
> the software used was Exact Audio Copy.....Dunno I think I may just stick to using original cds have tried everything else


..........

Lossless is lossless. If there were a difference then your computer got issues xD

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## Wesayso

Well maybe Pioneer will make something like this for the car:









They have the technologie (lol)


----------



## Hanatsu

Wesayso said:


> Well maybe Pioneer will make something like this for the car:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the technologie (lol)


lol.... remove the passenger seat in your Porsche and I'm sure you can find the space to install it xD xD


----------



## MB2008LTZ

Wesayso said:


> Well maybe Pioneer will make something like this for the car:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the technologie (lol)


They did back in the day.... CDX-P5000 50+1 cd changer

CDX-P5000 - Bing Images


----------



## co_leonard

MacLeod said:


> The things I'd ask for is first and foremost presets. Wish to God I could slap together one tune with X-overs, TA and EQ and compare it with one that's different. So much easier when you can just switch between them.


I agree. 

The Pioneer RS-D7 ODR system can store up to 6 presets. And that's an older 2008-model head unit and DSP. 

If ever Pioneer adds presets to the P99RS (maybe the P99RS-II?), I'm getting one.


----------



## Hanatsu

co_leonard said:


> I agree.
> 
> The Pioneer RS-D7 ODR system can store up to 6 presets. And that's an older 2008-model head unit and DSP.
> 
> If ever Pioneer adds presets to the P99RS (maybe the P99RS-II?), I'm getting one.


Am I missing something? The p99 can store 5 presets.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Wesayso said:


> Did you burn a CD from those wav files? If not, then there are other reasons possible for your findings. Have a friend swap CD's on you a few times without telling you what you are listening to.


yes I did .....maybe I am using an older version of EAC ....which is the EAC version I should use? and what other possible reasons.......


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hanatsu said:


> ..........
> 
> Lossless is lossless. If there were a difference then your computer got issues xD
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


Maybe .......have also heard from people who compare lossless to CD and still believe lossless lacks in some areas such as stage depth.......

But you could be right.....


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

co_leonard said:


> I agree.
> 
> The Pioneer RS-D7 ODR system can store up to 6 presets. And that's an older 2008-model head unit and DSP.
> 
> If ever Pioneer adds presets to the P99RS (maybe the P99RS-II?), I'm getting one.


Curious....if Pioneer did and you bought one

what would you do to your current P99


----------



## Wesayso

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Maybe .......have also heard from people who compare lossless to CD and still believe lossless lacks in some areas such as stage depth.......
> 
> But you could be right.....


Just believe it, lossless really is the same signal as what is on the original CD. As has been said before, even the listening level could be influential to your findings. Get a cheap dB meter from ratshack (ehh Radioshack) or an RTA app on your phone and measure the output of your wave files when running trough USB and also when playing trough your CD player. Adjust the output so it is the same from both sources.
same signal in is same signal out. At least when using the USB if there is silence in a track you wouldn't hear the CD spinning . (if there are no other noises in your system, in other words if the noise floor is low enough)


----------



## Hanatsu

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Maybe .......have also heard from people who compare lossless to CD and still believe lossless lacks in some areas such as stage depth.......
> 
> But you could be right.....


Lossless is by definition not lossy. It retains ALL original data, period. It's the exact same principle as with a Zip or RAR file. If you compress a zip file with a text document you will be able to extract the exact same document when you decompress it with absolutely no changes.

It is simply impossible there is a difference, if there would be a difference then it would not be lossless. People who say there is a (audible) difference between lossless formats don't know what they are talking about. I can subtract the the data from any lossless format and compare them to eachother in Audacity. I promise, they will be identical. No need for subjective listening in this case


----------



## t3sn4f2

Hanatsu said:


> Lossless is by definition not lossy. It retains ALL original data, period. It's the exact same principle as with a Zip or RAR file. If you compress a zip file with a text document you will be able to extract the exact same document when you decompress it with absolutely no changes.
> 
> It is simply impossible there is a difference, if there would be a difference then it would not be lossless. People who say there is a (audible) difference between lossless formats don't know what they are talking about. I can subtract the the data from any lossless format and compare them to eachother in Audacity. I promise, they will be identical. No need for subjective listening in this case


As concrete as that is, unfortunately it means nothing here.


----------



## avanti1960

Major Update 1/22/2013

After having my P99 for nearly a year I believe I have it completely tuned and time aligned. Had I known then what I know now it would have not taken so long but you live and earn and owning the DEX has been a learning experience.

By FAR the biggest time alignment technique happened over this past week-end and I stumbled on it by accident- but the results are probably as close to razor sharp perfect as I can get them. Here goes-

Assuming you have already-
*Drivers level matched. (I did mine as individual pairs, by ear, for every driver to center the stage. Note- NO time alignment should be applied during level matching).
*L/R EQ completed. I did this by RTA and pink noise- however it was not completely effective (more in a minute). I could not use tone bursts because these tended to bounce around way to much and some simply could not be centered, for whatever reason. I say the RTA was not completely effective because it did not reveal the most obvious issue which is off-axis tweeter high end response. It may have been my averaging technique. I used the typical 6-position averaging each for the left and right RTA plots. However I believe that it is worth experimenting to try and bias the averaging to the side you are measuring. In other words, don't sweep the microphone across the entire stage for individual L/R measurements. The off-axis response probably negates an accurate measurement. In the future I may try a 6-position average but keep the mic positioned left or right depending on the side being measured- and use smaller positional increments.

OK so now you have your stage balanced and centered as good as you can without turning on any time delay. At this point it I did enter in the as-measured to the ear distances for each driver. The stage is now somewhat blurry and definitely needs help.
I would argue that to adjust time increments should only be done to the driver's side for (3) reasons-
1) passenger side drivers are more on-axis and have a direct path to the ear.
2) passenger side drivers are farther away (percentage wise) and therefore small adjustments are more difficult to perceive. Likewise driver's side drivers are closer to the ears and are more sensitive to adjustment and measurement error.
3) driver's side drivers are more subjected to local reflections- steering wheel, dash, legs, seats, console and therefore are more sensitive to delay adjustments AND less likely to be "correct" simply by measurement.

SO, measurements entered for all drivers. NOW- here is the "BREAKTHROUGH" that really iced my stage accuracy. I isolated the drivers and began to adjust the driver's side distances in order to center the stage for each L/R pair of drivers (mid/tweet, midbass, rear doors). I did my best but the stage was still blurry.
Just for kicks I played the track on my test CD (Sheffield Labs "My Disk") where the narrator says "MY VOICE IS IN PHASE / MY VOICE IS OUT OF PHASE" I put it on repeat and noticed that the voice "IN PHASE" was blurry and all over the place while the "OUT OF PHASE" voice was more centered but not perfect. Since I know my drivers are all polarity matched, the wandering stage during the "MY VOICE IS IN PHASE" track on the test disk MUST BE A RESULT OF TIME ALIGNMENT ALTERING ACOUSTIC PHASE.

So I adjusted the distances on each set of left drivers one by one until the "IN PHASE" voice on the disk was perfectly centered (in acoustic phase). I did this carefully.

And holy cow, after I brought all the drivers up and listened to some music- it was so razor sharp it was stunning. I could not believe I had been missing this for almost a year and that it was so simple to correct.
Voices and instruments are now literally floating on my windshield as if playing from a cloud stage.

Please use this discovery if you are still having a wandering stage or other time alignment issues!


----------



## MacLeod

Nice tip. I never wouldve thought of using that. I use the "voice in/out phase" track on the IASCA disc for certain things but never thought about using it to center the image up with time alignment. Ill definitely have to give that a try.


----------



## quality_sound

MacLeod said:


> Nice tip. I never wouldve thought of using that. I use the "voice in/out phase" track on the IASCA disc for certain things but never thought about using it to center the image up with time alignment. Ill definitely have to give that a try.


JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.


----------



## co_leonard

Hanatsu said:


> Am I missing something? The p99 can store 5 presets.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


EQ presets only. The Pioneer P99RS can store 5 EQ presets. 

It cannot store TA presets. It also cannot store XO presets.

The Pioneer RS-D7R ODR Head Unit and Procesor can store 6 "global" presets. Meaning you can set EQ, XO and TA and save all this to one preset. Then you can have a completely different set of EQ, XO and TA values and save it to another preset. 

This is the feature I wish the P99RS had.


----------



## co_leonard

Tropikal_Knights said:


> Curious....if Pioneer did and you bought one
> 
> what would you do to your current P99


Sell it. Or put it in another car.


----------



## Hanatsu

co_leonard said:


> EQ presets only. The Pioneer P99RS can store 5 EQ presets.
> 
> It cannot store TA presets. It also cannot store XO presets.
> 
> The Pioneer RS-D7R ODR Head Unit and Procesor can store 6 "global" presets. Meaning you can set EQ, XO and TA and save all this to one preset. Then you can have a completely different set of EQ, XO and TA values and save it to another preset.
> 
> This is the feature I wish the P99RS had.


I see. Well I'm not using the processor in the P99. I have several "global" presets in my Helix P-DSP 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## MacLeod

Hanatsu said:


> Am I missing something? The p99 can store 5 presets.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


Yeah its just EQ only. It is a huge benefit when you can set x-overs, TA and EQ and store that in a preset and then compare it to a totally different group if settings. Its a lot easier to pick out differences when you can quickly A/B them as opposed to having to go back and change the TA and/or x-over settings manually. 

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2


----------



## avanti1960

quality_sound said:


> JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.


I may have to track down a copy of the clean sweep disk. 

The more you think about it, if the "in phase" track reveals the voice to be wandering all over the place with your T/A settings, you know it isn't "right" and that your music will also wander all over the place. So you have to adjust it, What else can you do?


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hanatsu said:


> Lossless is by definition not lossy. It retains ALL original data, period. It's the exact same principle as with a Zip or RAR file. If you compress a zip file with a text document you will be able to extract the exact same document when you decompress it with absolutely no changes.
> 
> It is simply impossible there is a difference, if there would be a difference then it would not be lossless. People who say there is a (audible) difference between lossless formats don't know what they are talking about. I can subtract the the data from any lossless format and compare them to eachother in Audacity. I promise, they will be identical. No need for subjective listening in this case


Sounds about right........think Ill download the latest version of EAC and try it again....Would you have any idea which version it is and what encoder should be downloaded with it?


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## Tropikal_Knights

Wesayso said:


> Just believe it, lossless really is the same signal as what is on the original CD. As has been said before, even the listening level could be influential to your findings. Get a cheap dB meter from ratshack (ehh Radioshack) or an RTA app on your phone and measure the output of your wave files when running trough USB and also when playing trough your CD player. Adjust the output so it is the same from both sources.
> same signal in is same signal out. At least when using the USB if there is silence in a track you wouldn't hear the CD spinning . (if there are no other noises in your system, in other words if the noise floor is low enough)


i had already adjusted the output when I was trying this out........will get a db meter and try again.....


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## avanti1960

quality_sound said:


> JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.


thanks again. i have the JL CD on oder (9.99, FYI). after living with the setup for a week more work is needed.


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## Jani X

You can actually save different things by using the "left"-"front"-"right" presets. I've only used left and front so far for TA and level info. Not sure of xover.

Maybe there are some restrictions, I dunno..


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## narvarr

Jani X said:


> You can actually save different things by using the "left"-"front"-"right" presets. I've only used left and front so far for TA and level info. Not sure of xover.
> 
> Maybe there are some restrictions, I dunno..


I have done the same with mine but Xover points I think stay the same...

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## avanti1960

Jani X said:


> You can actually save different things by using the "left"-"front"-"right" presets. I've only used left and front so far for TA and level info. Not sure of xover.
> 
> Maybe there are some restrictions, I dunno..


this is a very nice discovery. i never thought about tuning each seat individually for different preferences- they save by default if you just select it and change the settings.

it definitely saves level, time alignment and phase. i'm betting it saves crossover points and slopes too- that would be awesome.

i'm gearing up for the superbowl right now otherwise i would go try it in my cold garage!


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## tjk_bail

avanti1960... Thank you very much for all your comments in this forum.. I have found a lot of your information very helpfull.. and I look forward to more of your write-ups!

I was hoping you would share some of your actual settings, i.e. xover, L/R input levels, slopes, timming numbers, for each SBW, Low, mid, highs... I know its asking alot.. would understand if you didnt feel like posting it....

I'm still a novice with the P99rs.... and I had a difficult time understanding the difference between time alignment and phase... I fould this web-site that made it easy for me to understand it.. Loudspeaker time alignment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## avanti1960

tjk_bail said:


> avanti1960... Thank you very much for all your comments in this forum.. I have found a lot of your information very helpfull.. and I look forward to more of your write-ups!
> 
> I was hoping you would share some of your actual settings, i.e. xover, L/R input levels, slopes, timming numbers, for each SBW, Low, mid, highs... I know its asking alot.. would understand if you didnt feel like posting it....
> 
> I'm still a novice with the P99rs.... and I had a difficult time understanding the difference between time alignment and phase... I fould this web-site that made it easy for me to understand it.. Loudspeaker time alignment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


no problem tjk, here are my current settings-

subwoofer- LP= 80 Hz, 24db
front midbass- HP= 80 Hz, 24db, LP= 800 Hz, 24db
front midrange- HP= 800 Hz, 24db. LP= pass
front tweeter- passive crossover 8 Khz, 12 db. 
rear passive components- HP= 125Hz, 24 db.

for level settings I used RTA to match all drivers and adjusted by ear, centering the image as best as I could without T/A. 

for time alignment I used the pioneer autotune setting for subwoofer which set the distance and reversed the phase. this sounds the best.
for all other drivers i measured the distance and entered them in the T/A settings. then i adjusted the left side T/A settings by playing a test CD with an "in phase" track and adjusted the distance to center the image for each set of drivers- done as individual pairs with all other drivers muted.


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## tjk_bail

Thank you for the repy.

I thought you were running a 4-way setup.. with the setup having the subs under the back seat, rear door mid-bass, front door mids, and A-piller tweets...not sure why I thought that.. guess I was hoping you had this setup 'cause thats what I have in my truck. I thought your settings would give me some clues on how to tweek my settings...

Looks like you are using the 'high out' from the HU to a passive Crossover (via amp) to power your tweets & rear door speakers... if this is true, how would the rear speakers get a signal lower than 800hz? (cause the P99rs highs HP lowest setting is 800hz)


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## Hanatsu

It's pretty meaningless discussing crossovers. The optimal settings vary from install to install. Speaker locations, drivers used and the environment (the car's interior) calls for different tuning and therefore different crossover settings. 

I install my drivers at my intended locations and aim them, after that's done I simply measure them with a fullrange signal at listening position (don't do that with the tweeter). Based on the FR data I choose crossover points (it's also good to be aware of the distortion characteristics beforehand, for commonly used drivers the info is easily obtainable in most cases).


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## avanti1960

tjk_bail said:


> Thank you for the repy.
> 
> I thought you were running a 4-way setup.. with the setup having the subs under the back seat, rear door mid-bass, front door mids, and A-piller tweets...not sure why I thought that.. guess I was hoping you had this setup 'cause thats what I have in my truck. I thought your settings would give me some clues on how to tweek my settings...
> 
> Looks like you are using the 'high out' from the HU to a passive Crossover (via amp) to power your tweets & rear door speakers... if this is true, how would the rear speakers get a signal lower than 800hz? (cause the P99rs highs HP lowest setting is 800hz)


the high ouput drives my front door midrange with passive imaging tweeter. the low channel drives the rear passive components. 
i have the high passed at 125Hz to cut down on midbass.


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## matyj

Hiy'all, I thought id post pics of my not overly custom but very tidy install, p99rs w/ focal utopia 4 way active, (with about 40 hours of tuning already put in, and im sure another few hundred to go) running from 2 alpine f4's under the seats.  6.5's are in the stock locations in the doors, and a 21wx is in a custom made box (My spare tyre well was dynamated and sealed) in the boot! (roughly 25L) Let me know what you think, especially with the position and off axis mounting of the mid and tweet! Any suggestion and ideas would be grand. The stage is a little low, but i can play around with this with crossover and slopes between the mid and tweet. but other ideas wanted! (Bar having them custom mounted in the A-pillars)

On a side note, the 21wx is friiikin unbelievable! I have never ever heard a sub of any size or brand to be as detailed and as fast as this one. Maybe a couple close contenders, but this is EASILY the clear winner. Anyone out there wanting a sub that punches well, and I mean WELL above its weight and size, and gives detail in notes down to 25hz, (when sealed with plenty of room to breathe) get one of these, just truly unbelievable, makes any morel or dynaudio sub sound muddy and sluggish.


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## Hanatsu

matyj said:


> Hiy'all, I thought id post pics of my not overly custom but very tidy install, p99rs w/ focal utopia 4 way active, (with about 40 hours of tuning already put in, and im sure another few hundred to go) running from 2 alpine f4's under the seats.  6.5's are in the stock locations in the doors, and a 21wx is in a custom made box (My spare tyre well was dynamated and sealed) in the boot! (roughly 25L) Let me know what you think, especially with the position and off axis mounting of the mid and tweet! Any suggestion and ideas would be grand. The stage is a little low, but i can play around with this with crossover and slopes between the mid and tweet. but other ideas wanted! (Bar having them custom mounted in the A-pillars)
> 
> On a side note, the 21wx is friiikin unbelievable! I have never ever heard a sub of any size or brand to be as detailed and as fast as this one. Maybe a couple close contenders, but this is EASILY the clear winner. Anyone out there wanting a sub that punches well, and I mean WELL above its weight and size, and gives detail in notes down to 25hz, (when sealed with plenty of room to breathe) get one of these, just truly unbelievable, makes any morel or dynaudio sub sound muddy and sluggish.


Heard an utopia system at one occation, sounded really good, loved the midrange. 
For such an install I'd use the midrange driver perhaps from 200-250Hz --> 4kHz and the tweeter from 4kHz and up. Dunno how those 3-4"ers? sounds around 160-250Hz but cross them as low as possible imo (to avoid rainbow effect with male vocals).

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## matyj

by the rainbow effect are you meaning mid range frequencies starting from the 6.5's in my door then arching up to the mids on each side? Looks like a rainbow right?


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## Hanatsu

matyj said:


> by the rainbow effect are you meaning mid range frequencies starting from the 6.5's in my door then arching up to the mids on each side? Looks like a rainbow right?


Indeed.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## co_leonard

matyj said:


> Hiy'all, I thought id post pics of my not overly custom but very tidy install, p99rs w/ focal utopia 4 way active, (with about 40 hours of tuning already put in, and im sure another few hundred to go) running from 2 alpine f4's under the seats.  6.5's are in the stock locations in the doors, and a 21wx is in a custom made box (My spare tyre well was dynamated and sealed) in the boot! (roughly 25L) Let me know what you think, especially with the position and off axis mounting of the mid and tweet! Any suggestion and ideas would be grand. The stage is a little low, but i can play around with this with crossover and slopes between the mid and tweet. but other ideas wanted! (Bar having them custom mounted in the A-pillars)
> 
> On a side note, the 21wx is friiikin unbelievable! I have never ever heard a sub of any size or brand to be as detailed and as fast as this one. Maybe a couple close contenders, but this is EASILY the clear winner. Anyone out there wanting a sub that punches well, and I mean WELL above its weight and size, and gives detail in notes down to 25hz, (when sealed with plenty of room to breathe) get one of these, just truly unbelievable, makes any morel or dynaudio sub sound muddy and sluggish.


Nice speakers! Loved them while I had them. Sold them years ago to buy a second-hand Nissan A32 for my wife. Hehe... 

Are you using the crossblock?


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## matyj

no cross-block, have gone active off the p99rs, after a looot of tweaking my preferred settings are, 
21wx low pass 80hz @ 30dbl, 
6.5 highpass 80hz @ 30dbl, low pass 250hz @ 30dbl, 
3" mid 250hz @30dbl to 4k @ 36dbl, 
tweet 4k and up 36dbl with a pass on the high end cause they play to 40khz.....

believe it or not the cliff like slopes in my car sound incredible. I played with leaving slight gapes between cross points and having shallower slopes, played with different speakers at different slops for phasing problems (of which there were very veeery few) toyed with crossover frequencies a lot and so far, this is by far the cleanest and the separation is superb! 

I am a musician by trade, and in fact was lucky enough to see Maceo Parker here in perth last night. made sure i sat myself directly above the mixing desk at the concert for the best image, got back in the car after the show, slapped on one of his albums and was preeeety impressed with the accuracy im getting with these settings. the 250 on the 6.5's dont pull the sound stage low with the tweet crossed at 4k, but the tiny jump to 5k and the image drops too much, pretty interesting. And the detail jump in the tweeter between 4 and 5k is dramatic! once youre above 5 the differences are minute same as below 4, but that seems to be the sweetspot for the berylliums, without the proper eq at 4k and lower the tweeter can sound harsh, but im off axis and with the eq reeling it back, man oh man the detail is uncanny. I did find the 3" mid to struggle a little bit with anything below 250hz, i may play around with them again around the 315hz mark, and put shallow slopes back on the 6.5 and this mid...maybe


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## matyj

one quick q, having the door grills in my jazz, the giant thick stock ones, will it play with the midbass frequencies too much? should i cut them out? the grills that is


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## co_leonard

matyj said:


> one quick q, having the door grills in my jazz, the giant thick stock ones, will it play with the midbass frequencies too much? should i cut them out? the grills that is


I cut mine out. Big improvement in midbass. Then I made extra-thick spacers so that the midbass is flush with the panel. Then I used the stock Utopia grill. 

And in my car, I found a -2dB dip at 8kHz helped a bit with the Be Tweeter's slightly bright sound.


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## tjk_bail

Like so many in here, I've been 'messin' with the P99RS with countless different outcomes, as far as what we (I) am looking for with the sound quality that is....

This post is mainly for those CREW CAB truck owners....

My setup is this.

HAT Legatia SE L1 Ring Radiator (R2) Tweeter - in the A-Pillars 
HAT Legatia L6 woofer (no tweet or 2-way) in lower front doors
HAT Legatia L6SE (no tweet or 2-way) in lower rear doors.
StealthBox JL Audio 10W3v3-(2 woofers wired mono) - under backseat (drivers side)

Everything is Active.. 
After numorous times of auto tuning and eq'ing I got it to sound pretty decent. 
A week or so ago, I tried to apply the time Alignment method where you try to time align via doppler effect and pink noise... I tried it.. for hours, could not get it to work for me. So the tried the other time alignment called -- "A better technique for "ear" time alignment?" (other thread on this web) This I got to work for me for the midbase & midrange.. actually pretty easily. I had a difficult time with the tweets though..but I got em close.

After all this tweeking, along with all the previous tweeking i've done in the past, I always ended up with right of center stage.

I noticed that the drivers-side mid always sounded a little weak or hidden.. so instead of increasing the volume level for just the left mid, I changed the crossover setting for the left mid, by increasing the LP up from its current possition of 3.5k to 4k. This makes the Left front mid at 4k and the right front mid at 3.5k. This really seemed to center my stage a lot.

So, now I have everything centered, and for the most part time alignment ( more adjustment is needed) is done.... but the system sounded dull.. and bassy (bassie?). I could hear all the notes and the stereo seperation and the cymbals, crystal clear, - all of the music was there, it just didnt sound all that great.

so, I decided at this point to make a change to the 'sound retriever', had set it to 1 a long long time ago, and never touched it since... I changed it from 1 to 2 and BANG..... WOW.. The system really brightened and the stage lifted from off the floor up to the center of the cab. It sounds like I ADDED 2 tweets in the back D-pillars, and 2 midranges in the upper doors... The whole cab is full of crystal clear amazing sound with center staging... I thought to myself... "there it is..."
I'm by far no expert on SQ, I bearly qualify as a novice ... but I know what sounds good, and what doesnt sound so good.... and now the inside of my cab is just bursting with great tones upper and lower!!!

I wonder if Pioneer included the S.Rtrv - 2 setting for rear speaker 4-way setup like I have.. cause it really made a big difference.


P.S. I know my signature includes the HAT Imagine l61-2's... I'm not using them at this time.. but I may add them in a kick panel in the future.


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## tjk_bail

Just wanted to add.. that, with the adjustments.... I can hear the snar drum pop inside the sub-woofer thump... I've never heard that before.. and its really cool!


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## tjk_bail

While driving around listening to music, I lowered my window at a stop light (driver side), and noticed how much the centering effect moved way left, I could bearly hear the right tweet...

I assumed the centering effect dimished because the right tweet was no longer bouncing off the left window. Which got me thinking that the tweets time alignment may be scewwed (since it was timed by my ear via white noise and window up) I know I get way to long winded.. so I'll get right to my question.

Would it be worth my time to perform a new Auto-time/tune but this time with both front windows down.. and maybe tie up a pillow in each open space... ya know to absorb the freq refractions? Do you think I would get a true time alignment.. or is this just a waste of my time?


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## co_leonard

tjk_bail said:


> Would it be worth my time to perform a new Auto-time/tune but this time with both front windows down.. and maybe tie up a pillow in each open space... ya know to absorb the freq refractions? Do you think I would get a true time alignment.. or is this just a waste of my time?


Perhaps you could try setting the distances yourself? Get a friend who is around the same height as you to sit in the driver's seat. Then measure the distances from the left ear to the left tweeter, left midrange and left midbass, then enter these measurements into your P99. Then do the same for the right (use the right ear). 

I've tried this in my own car and the results were positive. But this, of course, was after RTA tuning. 

Before I did RTA tuning, I knew each driver had its own peaks and dips. So I let "auto tune" take care of this.

Then I tried adjusting T/A. After entering (as best as I could) the distances into my P99, I still wasnt satisfied. I heard my soundstage to be skewed to either the left side or the right side depending on whether it was a male or female singing. Deep voices moved the the left and higher voices to the right. And this was after several rounds of "auto tune." So maybe I got my crossover levels or T/A values wrong, or so I thought.

Then a local "guru" taught me how to tune with an RTA. Not really to achieve a "FLAT" response, but so that the left channel sounds like the right channel from the listening position.

But before this, I needed to hear the difference for myself. So here's how I tested my system: I moved the balance control all the way to the left and played a pink noise track. I listened a few seconds til I could more or less describe how it sounded. Then I paused the CD, moved the balance all the way to the right and pressed play. 

Whadayouknow, pink noise sounded completely different! 

On the left it was bloated and warm. On the right it was thin and shrill. No wonder male vocals seemed to come from the left and female from the right. And this was after "auto tune!"

So that's when I knew "auto tune" wouldn't cut it. I had to learn how to RTA-tune my own system. 

This was almost 3 years ago. 

See if you can learn (or get someone to teach you) how to tune with an RTA. You'll hear a tremendous improvement.


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## narvarr

co_leonard said:


> Perhaps you could try setting the distances yourself? Get a friend who is around the same height as you to sit in the driver's seat. Then measure the distances from the left ear to the left tweeter, left midrange and left midbass, then enter these measurements into your P99. Then do the same for the right (use the right ear).
> 
> I've tried this in my own car and the results were positive. But this, of course, was after RTA tuning.
> 
> Before I did RTA tuning, I knew each driver had its own peaks and dips. So I let "auto tune" take care of this.
> 
> Then I tried adjusting T/A. After entering (as best as I could) the distances into my P99, I still wasnt satisfied. I heard my soundstage to be skewed to either the left side or the right side depending on whether it was a male or female singing. Deep voices moved the the left and higher voices to the right. And this was after several rounds of "auto tune." So maybe I got my crossover levels or T/A values wrong, or so I thought.
> 
> Then a local "guru" taught me how to tune with an RTA. Not really to achieve a "FLAT" response, but so that the left channel sounds like the right channel from the listening position.
> 
> But before this, I needed to hear the difference for myself. So here's how I tested my system: I moved the balance control all the way to the left and played a pink noise track. I listened a few seconds til I could more or less describe how it sounded. Then I paused the CD, moved the balance all the way to the right and pressed play.
> 
> Whadayouknow, pink noise sounded completely different!
> 
> On the left it was bloated and warm. On the right it was thin and shrill. No wonder male vocals seemed to come from the left and female from the right. And this was after "auto tune!"
> 
> So that's when I knew "auto tune" wouldn't cut it. I had to learn how to RTA-tune my own system.
> 
> This was almost 3 years ago.
> 
> See if you can learn (or get someone to teach you) how to tune with an RTA. You'll hear a tremendous improvement.


Agreed! Left and right balance is going to be the key ingredient. I had the same experience until I got the same balance between both sides. I muted the left side, RTA'd the right side flat, then saved the RTA curve. Mute the right side then RTA'd the left side to match the curve of the right. At this point, both sides should sound the same and make it easier to T/A the system. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## tjk_bail

okay. yep, I have definitely heard the different levels between the right and left using either pink or white noise.. and I experienced the same vocal effects you have discribed..

Looks like its time I invested in an RTA device ... thank you for your comments..
Any recommendations on an RTA device & mic I should purchase?

If you know of a thread on this web-site to get me started would be cool too!!


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## narvarr

tjk_bail said:


> okay. yep, I have definitely heard the different levels between the right and left using either pink or white noise.. and I experienced the same vocal effects you have discribed..
> 
> Looks like its time I invested in an RTA device ... thank you for your comments..
> Any recommendations on an RTA device & mic I should purchase?
> 
> If you know of a thread on this web-site to get me started would be cool too!!


Search TrueRTA or REW for software. The REW (Room EQ Wizard) is free and the TrueRTA 1/3 octave version is $39.95. Check Parts-express.com for the Dayton usb microphone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## tjk_bail

Very Cool... thanks !!!!!!!!!


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## Hanatsu

narvarr said:


> Search TrueRTA or REW for software. The REW (Room EQ Wizard) is free and the TrueRTA 1/3 octave version is $39.95. Check Parts-express.com for the Dayton usb microphone.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


REW(RoomEQ), ARTA, HOLMimpulse are all free and can do anything you wish for. Nice to have MLS features as well as RTA/sine sweeps. These methods are all usable for different measurements. I never use RTA/Pink Noise though.

No experience with the Dayton mic, but the ECM8000 mic is another great option, which is quite popular.


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## avanti1960

quality_sound said:


> JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.


Extreme kudos to you for suggesting the JL disc- best 9.99 I have ever spent on car audio. 

the high frequency in phase track was a missing link.

pioneer should include a CD like this with the P99. hard to believe it's coming up on a year of owning the rig and i'm still working it.


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## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> Extreme kudos to you for suggesting the JL disc- best 9.99 I have ever spent on car audio.
> 
> the high frequency in phase track was a missing link.
> 
> pioneer should include a CD like this with the P99. hard to believe it's coming up on a year of owning the rig and i'm still working it.


What are those tracks for? Aligning tweets and mids? 

This can be measured very easy in that case. HOLMimpulse is best to use imo, measure tweeter and mids with an impulse, apply the same highpass filter on the impulse response of both driver (in the program). After that you can see the time difference in (ms). Apply T/A accordingly. You can also see if drivers is wired right, if polarity is wrong you will see an initial peak that's negative (peaks downwards).

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## quality_sound

Checking phase. They start with a man speaking in phase then out of phase. It helps. A lot.

I need to spend more time with Holmimpulse. I still haven't figured it out yet.


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## Hanatsu

Holmimpulse is very easy to use. Read through the manual, describes its functions quite good. There's a section which tells you how to T/A. Arta is more powerful but more complicated imo. Holmimpulse is great for gated frequency response measurements and time alignment. Very straight foward.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## avanti1960

I would like to try Holmimpulse as well and plan to do so. 
The great thing about the JL disc was that it plays audible material that allows your ears to easily make the adjustment in time alignment. Having the in phase / out of phase material broken into multiple frequency ranges is an outstanding tool. 
Often I set things based on measurements at a particular frequency and when you play actual music the results need adjustment because of how your ears hear the fuller spectrum. 
The JL disc tracks eliminated the second steps. The results correspond perfectly to full spectrum music material.


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## Hanatsu

I rely more and more on measurement solutions. After I've been tuning for 30min, listening fatigue kicks in and then there's no idea in continuing any more.

I always fine-tune EQ and set L-R T/A for correct center by ear though.

When doing it with measurements;

I align drivers the same side (mid/midrange/tweeter) to eachother by measuring initial peak. Then I delay all three drivers by the same amount until it reach 'center'. No room for error 

The mid/sub integration can be measured by observing FR at crossover point. If you're lazy when EQing and got a good PEQ you can run an autoEQ algoritm in RoomEQ. It spits out Q/center freq and gain, quite awesome 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## quality_sound

That's exactly what I want to try. I just need ot figure out how to get signal to the processor. I'm guessing 3.5mm to RCA into the PS8 then measure as I would with TrueRTA or REW.


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## pionkej

Has anybody tried a new apple product with the "lightening" connector on the USB port to see if its compatible? If so, what device: iPhone 5, iPod touch, iPad/mini?

Sorry if this has already been asked, but a quick search couldn't find it.


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## quality_sound

Lightening or Lightning?


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## pionkej

quality_sound said:


> Lightening or Lightning?


Good catch. Since people may have not understood the question due to my misspelling...lightning connector.


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## cyrusthevirus23

avanti1960 said:


> View attachment 34364
> 
> 
> View attachment 34365
> 
> 
> View attachment 34366
> 
> 
> Installed it on Saturday Feb. 18th.
> 
> Biggest discoveries after a couple of days to listen-
> 
> 1) The quality of the sub bass is as good as I could ever want and matches exactly my preference for excellent subwoofer bass. It sounds so much deeper, tighter, fuller, more accurate and correct than my previous head unit (Pioneer DEH-P8300UB). I didn' change the amp, the gains, nothing. Just the headunit and one complete auto tune session with custom network.
> I don't know where the credit should go but I have to believe the ultra steep cutoff slope at the crossover provided by the units processing (80Hz, 36db per octave) has really tightened it up immensely. This improvement leaves me unbelievably impressed. This head unit all at once made my subwoofer and amp that much better.
> 
> 2) Just one auto EQ yields much better sound, stage, accuracy, centering, clarity etc. than the best tune I could achieve with several months owning my old head unit.
> 
> 3) I ditched the auto time alignment. It seriously detracted from the sound. I will revisit some form of manual TA as time allows- but with former head units I never found it to be a plus.
> 
> 4) Biggest so far- the clarity of the sound allows the volume to be turned up significantly louder without fatigue or harshness! Again, no change in amp or gain settings- the ultra clean signal this source unit puts out lets me really really crank the volume much more than my old head unit.
> This tells me that a "good" head unit with decent specs is not all it is cracked up to be- and that specs do not tell the whole story. I thought my old deck was a decent sounding CD player and pre-amp, it had great SN specs, had a 24 bit DAC, etc. just that it didn't have audiophile features like parametric EQ, time alignment, etc. It had 5 channels, adjustable high and low pass filters, subwoofer level, etc.
> The DEX 99-PRS literally blows the old head unit out of the water- it made my amp and speakers so much better and louder!
> It is really unbelievable and a bonus that I was not expecting.


very nice write up, one day i will have one of these hu's i did enjoy having my 9300 and 9400mp when they were top dog


----------



## Nismomac

pionkej said:


> Has anybody tried a new apple product with the "lightening" connector on the USB port to see if its compatible? If so, what device: iPhone 5, iPod touch, iPad/mini?
> 
> Sorry if this has already been asked, but a quick search couldn't find it.


Works just the same as any older iPhone or iPod. I've e tried it on pioneer kenwood and clarion decks


----------



## MacLeod

Wish you could use an Android phone with it. Whenever I hook mine up to it, I just get the "device not recognized" crap. 

I know I can use the headphone jack but it would be nice to navigate thru my tunes via the HU. That reminds me, I need to go but a 3.5 to 2.5mm cord or adapter. 

Sent from my beloved Samsung Galaxy Note 2.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hello everyone......just wondering is anyone using bluetooth with the 99.......and is so which model......I might buy the CTBT 200 i think that is the name.....

What I am confused about though is that having owned a bluetooth integrated HU before (it had options to run the bluetooth like call answering , volume of call) since this does not have any bluetooth options how would I see who is calling, call volume etc on the HU if I was to buy the BLuetooth module.....sorry for the confusion...


----------



## 82801BA

I have btb200. Every time I call, the other side would say I drop into water...


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

By dropping into water meaning ........

Also how do you read who calls and the in call volume


----------



## avanti1960

Missed the 1-year anniversary by (2) days- dang it! 
A year plus living with the best integrated mobile audio solution on the market and I have to report that I still have not arrived at a final ultimate "tune" but I like to believe that progress is being made- along with ongoing discoveries. 
Just this morning I stumbled on a huge discovery- that the time alignment settings of my rear door speakers has been the culprit for drastically shifting the midrange image of the front stage. It seems as if I can have all (4) midbass drivers in blissful, bass enhancing low frequency phase- or a finely centered soundstage floating in my windshield glass- but not both! I am going to give it another go and if the results are not positive I am going to pull the plug on the rear fill. 
Another discovery is that your SQ hearing ability becomes very acute. You can learn to easily pick out what sounds good and what sounds bad- especially other sound sources. My radio in the basement never used to sound so horrible- I used to think it sounded good. Same with OEM sound systems. Oh boy are they bad! Even the best of them. Even when running the P99 with a "bad tune".


----------



## tjk_bail

avanti1960 said:


> Missed the 1-year anniversary by (2) days- dang it!
> A year plus living with the best integrated mobile audio solution on the market and I have to report that I still have not arrived at a final ultimate "tune" but I like to believe that progress is being made- along with ongoing discoveries.
> Just this morning I stumbled on a huge discovery- that the time alignment settings of my rear door speakers has been the culprit for drastically shifting the midrange image of the front stage. It seems as if I can have all (4) midbass drivers in blissful, bass enhancing low frequency phase- or a finely centered soundstage floating in my windshield glass- but not both! I am going to give it another go and if the results are not positive I am going to pull the plug on the rear fill.
> Another discovery is that your SQ hearing ability becomes very acute. You can learn to easily pick out what sounds good and what sounds bad- especially other sound sources. My radio in the basement never used to sound so horrible- I used to think it sounded good. Same with OEM sound systems. Oh boy are they bad! Even the best of them. Even when running the P99 with a "bad tune".


I experienced somewhat of the same effect you describe... So, I un-plugged my rear tweets.. and just ran with the 6.5" rear door woofers .... seemed to help a lot. still not perfect...


----------



## avanti1960

tjk_bail said:


> I experienced somewhat of the same effect you describe... So, I un-plugged my rear tweets.. and just ran with the 6.5" rear door woofers .... seemed to help a lot. still not perfect...


Today I'm "going in" to try and re-tune everything with the understanding that the rear stage time alignment affects the front stage. 
The plan is to setup the front stage then add in the rear drivers, isolating the midbass driver's only. 
Then I'll do measured response at a common low end point- e.g. 125Hz to determine the best low frequency phase delay setting for each rear driver. 
Then I'll see how it affected the front stage. At that point I'm not sure what to do if the front stage is shifted. I want to keep the rear stage full range and in phase with respect to optimized bass response. 
I will probably reverse phase and try again. If worse comes to worse I will try and increase the High Pass crossover frequency and use test tones to align phase at higher frequencies.


----------



## subwoofery

avanti1960 said:


> Missed the 1-year anniversary by (2) days- dang it!
> A year plus living with the best integrated mobile audio solution on the market and I have to report that I still have not arrived at a final ultimate "tune" but I like to believe that progress is being made- along with ongoing discoveries.
> Just this morning I stumbled on a huge discovery- that the time alignment settings of my rear door speakers has been the culprit for drastically shifting the midrange image of the front stage. It seems as if I can have all (4) midbass drivers in blissful, bass enhancing low frequency phase- or a finely centered soundstage floating in my windshield glass- but not both! I am going to give it another go and if the results are not positive I am going to pull the plug on the rear fill.
> Another discovery is that your SQ hearing ability becomes very acute. You can learn to easily pick out what sounds good and what sounds bad- especially other sound sources. My radio in the basement never used to sound so horrible- I used to think it sounded good. Same with OEM sound systems. Oh boy are they bad! Even the best of them. Even when running the P99 with a "bad tune".


Start with the rear speakers delayed by 11ms and go up - I have mine @ 12.47ms (RR) and 13.70ms (RL) relative to the front stage 
Intensity (levels) can also be the culprit for a shifting soundstage and phase problems...

Kelvin


----------



## avanti1960

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give this a try. This will be a huge difference than my current settings and adjustment trials which have been plus or minus 6" from their measured distances. Since my rear speakers have nearly identical measured distance to the ears as the corresponding front (midbass) drivers this means the dealy difference is approximately 0.44 ms. 11ms means I will add approximately 148" of delay vs. the front drivers.


----------



## wkndracr

After finding this thread you guys have me motivated to go back and fine tune this thing. I used an RTA to roughly tune the EQ manually and set the TA by ear, mainly listening for a solid center image. I thought it sounded great until I read this thread and realized it could be so much better. I have it installed in a BMW 1 series with 4" components in the doors and 8" under the seats (all Morel) so the placement is a little wacky. It's all powered by my old Soundstream Reference 705S, using the passive x-overs for the components and actively crossing over the 8"s. I also have a JL 10w3 in the trunk. No rear speakers. You guys will hate me when I say that I bought this unit for $300 from a customer who wanted something "more analog" and replaced it with a $1500 McIntosh deck.


----------



## quality_sound

I'll give you $350. For real.


----------



## WestCo

wkndracr said:


> After finding this thread you guys have me motivated to go back and fine tune this thing. I used an RTA to roughly tune the EQ manually and set the TA by ear, mainly listening for a solid center image. I thought it sounded great until I read this thread and realized it could be so much better. I have it installed in a BMW 1 series with 4" components in the doors and 8" under the seats (all Morel) so the placement is a little wacky. It's all powered by my old Soundstream Reference 705S, using the passive x-overs for the components and actively crossing over the 8"s. I also have a JL 10w3 in the trunk. No rear speakers. You guys will hate me when I say that I bought this unit for $300 from a customer who wanted something "more analog" and replaced it with a $1500 McIntosh deck.


There isn't much out there that beats a mac...
Nice score on the p99rs.


----------



## JVD240

WestCo said:


> There isn't much out there that beats a mac...
> Nice score on the p99rs.


Lol.

Does that thing play 45's though?


----------



## WestCo

JVD240 said:


> Lol.
> 
> Does that thing play 45's though?


lol...

The gentleman probably purchased an mx5000 (if he did his research). 

It is one of the best cd players ever made for a car, without question.
But it needs to be paired with a good processor to get the most out of it.

I am happy to run my mx4000 with a ps8, it does worlds better than my p99rs ever did.


----------



## JVD240

WestCo said:


> lol...
> 
> The gentleman probably purchased an mx5000 (if he did his research).
> 
> It is one of the best cd players ever made for a car, without question.
> But it needs to be paired with a good processor to get the most out of it.
> 
> I am happy to run my mx4000 with a ps8, it does worlds better than my p99rs ever did.


For sure. I'm just playin, man.

I think the appeal of the P99 is simplicity. Less cable, fewer devices and as much DSP as most need; the perfect daily driver deck.


----------



## WestCo

JVD240 said:


> For sure. I'm just playin, man.
> 
> I think the appeal of the P99 is simplicity. Less cable, fewer devices and as much DSP as most need; the perfect daily driver deck.



I am not going to knock the p99rs as an all-in-one solution for full active setups. I think the price point is a little too high on it. But you could easily make the same arguement for the McIntosh decks.

The p99rs was a fun deck and I am glad I tried it, the bass was definately on point. My only real complaints were that I felt that the DAC was very clinical. And that users should have more control over the crossover points.


----------



## avanti1960

WestCo said:


> lol...
> 
> The gentleman probably purchased an mx5000 (if he did his research).
> 
> It is one of the best cd players ever made for a car, without question.
> But it needs to be paired with a good processor to get the most out of it.
> 
> I am happy to run my mx4000 with a ps8, it does worlds better than my p99rs ever did.


I would love the versatility of the ps8 but not having integrated controls at the head unit is a flat out deal breaker.
Adjusting on the fly is mandatory.


----------



## WestCo

avanti1960 said:


> I would love the versatility of the ps8 but not having integrated controls at the head unit is a flat out deal breaker.
> Adjusting on the fly is mandatory.


I 100% agree. The controller is on preorder for me, probably one or two months more. Even with the controller, switching things on the fly maybe difficult, time will tell.

The main thing I want to control usually is the bass. Which can be done from the 4000. Frankly there were some major misteps on Arc's release of the ps8.

1) It was released without a manual (also no installation manual).
2) The controller should come with all processors (my opinion, a lot of people disagree with me there) But for something like the ps8, giving the customers a means to switch audio inputs would have been good.
3) When I use optical input into the controller the dac is very good, but the sound still can't compare to the Mac via rca... 
4) With the current firmware version there is a 1-2 minute boot up time where you can sometimes hear engine noise.

But even with all that, I love the sound and deal with the drawbacks.


----------



## quality_sound

Your turn on has hit two minutes? Mine is always 65-70 seconds but there is never any engine noise.


----------



## WestCo

LOL it's a rough estimate man... when I hear the engine noise it seems like longer >.<


----------



## WestCo

My automatic starter helps... by the time I get to my car it is usually ready.
Have they released another firmware update in the last month? That was the last time I updated it....


----------



## quality_sound

I don't think so.


----------



## wkndracr

WestCo said:


> lol...
> 
> The gentleman probably purchased an mx5000 (if he did his research).
> 
> It is one of the best cd players ever made for a car, without question.
> But it needs to be paired with a good processor to get the most out of it.
> 
> I am happy to run my mx4000 with a ps8, it does worlds better than my p99rs ever did.


That customer actually bought a MX406, feeding a MCC404m amp, along with some Image Dynamics components. The combo sounds pretty damn good, although with stock speaker placement and no processing, there is no stage to speak of, but he's more concerned with fidelity than a perfect soundstage.


----------



## avanti1960

wkndracr said:


> That customer actually bought a MX406, feeding a MCC404m amp, along with some Image Dynamics components. The combo sounds pretty damn good, although with stock speaker placement and no processing, there is no stage to speak of, but he's more concerned with fidelity than a perfect soundstage.


Without TA for phase adjustment the system will not come close to its best potential fidelity in the mobile environment.


----------



## narvarr

Here is something I stumbled on tonight...when you adjust the T/A of one speaker, it changes the T/A of the others. I had my midbass speakers muted and was trying to figure out which way I needed to go on my mids. I accidentally adjusted the left side T/A for midbass and could actually hear the sound change from the other speakers that were playing! I ran it up and down the scale till I got a crystal clear sounder and then turned the midbass back on. If the P99 recalculates the T/A for the other drivers everytime an adjustment is made, then the conventional methods of setting time delay may not work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Hanatsu

I think the maximum distance setting actually is no delay. ~394cm = no delay.

Don't think it recalculates the other drivers but I could be wrong.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## narvarr

Hanatsu said:


> I think the maximum distance setting actually is no delay. ~394cm = no delay.
> 
> Don't think it recalculates the other drivers but I could be wrong.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


I'm not sure what's going on with it but it did change the T/A relationship between the speakers that were playing...maybe it was a phase adjustment between the active set. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## preston

Can someone explain to me the order in which this unit displays the files on your USB stick ? I have files that are named "01 xxxx" and "02 xxxx" and it will still play them out of order. Maybe I made a mistake but I thought I checked on the computer to see if it was using "date modified" or "date created" and it didn't seem like it was but like I said maybe I looked at the wrong column.


----------



## avanti1960

been satisfied with the tune and sound for over a month now- it only took a year plus

wondering where to go next. more power might be nice but i have 150 watts going to each front midbass and 100 watts going to each passively linked midrange and tweeter.
not too many amps put more than 150 watts per channel.


----------



## quality_sound

They do when you bridge them. ;-)


----------



## piyush7243

preston said:


> Can someone explain to me the order in which this unit displays the files on your USB stick ? I have files that are named "01 xxxx" and "02 xxxx" and it will still play them out of order. Maybe I made a mistake but I thought I checked on the computer to see if it was using "date modified" or "date created" and it didn't seem like it was but like I said maybe I looked at the wrong column.


It looks at date created. There is some app which can change the date created so that it matches in alphabetical order. I will try to find it out 

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bospet40

*Crossover points question*

I know running active is better but I'm not due to limited space in my convertible 
I have a 3 way set of Dynaudio 362's in the front doors and JBL GTI 660's in the rear sides and 2 JBL GTI 12MKII's subs in the trunk. I have the Dex P99RS head unit 2 Mcintosh 302's and 2 Mcintosh 301's. The sound pressure levels are insane now but I want to fine tune it and not sure where I should start the crossover point being I'm running the fronts and rears passive?

My question is given the speakers I have what would be the best crossover points to set on the DexP99RS for the front rear and subs?

Thanks


----------



## matyj

hey man....that is a tricky one, I dont think you can run active with this setup. Im not sure what channel to feed them, but in passive I think its set to run, high (front) Mid (rear) Low (sub?) then sub off? something like this, someone else here can help im sure, but you will need to go passive, I dont think you can pull off some passive and some active with this system. Ive been runing focal utopia active 4 way for a few months and still tweaking. Why don't just get some clever amp placement and run active? The rear speakers will completely defeat the purpose of this hu (without sounding like a dick) When you go to a concert you sit in front of the band, you dont have parts of the band in front of you and part behind you. Or sit with your back against a concrete wall so there is a constant droning echo from left and right rear. The point of all the processing and calibration power of that hu is to position yourself dead centre and middle row to the band. (I can pick exactly where L and R and how far back and forwards on a stage musos are on live recordings) The recording itself will travel past your head and create natural rear fill just like a concert. The p99 calibration tools set you to where the sound guy would set up his booth at a concert. Also, with that hu and those amps, the natural reverb of a recording is going to go completely out of whack. I can actually use this natural verb to TA properly, I really, obsessively finely tweak until i hear a beautiful even dispersion around my cabin. This will be impossible with rear fill. The only time i would ever go rears is if I had a 5.1 player installed. then there would be a point. Or different components but with your gear, dont kill it man.


----------



## bospet40

I like sound from all over, you can't put subs in your dash, right? Actually, I don't want it to sound like live music or a concert, they all sound like crap and not what I'm after. Recording studio, or extreme high end home gear or club sound IS what it sounds like already plus my gear happens to be some of the best money can buy, this was not my question.


----------



## Shadowmarx

??? yes Sir there is...


avanti1960 said:


> been satisfied with the tune and sound for over a month now- it only took a year plus
> 
> wondering where to go next. more power might be nice but i have 150 watts going to each front midbass and 100 watts going to each passively linked midrange and tweeter.
> not too many amps put more than 150 watts per channel.


----------



## preston

Wow - a PS8 takes over a minute to boot up ? That would drive me insane.


----------



## narvarr

preston said:


> Wow - a PS8 takes over a minute to boot up ? That would drive me insane.


I've heard 2 PS8's in the past week and neither took that long. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## quality_sound

preston said:


> Wow - a PS8 takes over a minute to boot up ? That would drive me insane.





narvarr said:


> I've heard 2 PS8's in the past week and neither took that long.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


If you don't follow the directions when changing the turn on/off settings it is POSSIBLE that it'll happen. All you have to do is go in and re-save the settings correctly it's fine. I had a long turn-on delay until I actually read the directions.


----------



## pjc

Ok P01 users.... I previous had the P99 and iPod worked perfect. I now have the P01 and it says USB not recognized. Any help? 
I also attempted to add my xm to it hoping it would work. So far it does not. But I need to add the antenna to the xm yet. I would still think that it would at least recognize the source.


----------



## narvarr

pjc said:


> Ok P01 users.... I previous had the P99 and iPod worked perfect. I now have the P01 and it says USB not recognized. Any help?
> I also attempted to add my xm to it hoping it would work. So far it does not. But I need to add the antenna to the xm yet. I would still think that it would at least recognize the source.


Not going to work with XM. Internal components are not there to function properly. Not sure on the USB problem. My iPod worked perfectly with mine. Try a different iPod cable and see what happens. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


----------



## abusiveDAD

what version ipod


----------



## pjc

abusiveDAD said:


> what version ipod


iPhone 4S


----------



## abusiveDAD

same phone and i have the same issue


----------



## pjc

abusiveDAD said:


> same phone and i have the same issue


Well, crap. Ha.


----------



## MB2008LTZ

I just finally got around to installing this unit today after having it since August of last year. Had a 800PRS prior and wow is all I can say! Just did some basic set-up and tuning. If anyone from the northeast PA region has any long term experience with this deck, please PM me, I could really use some tuning help. Thanks.


----------



## pjc

pjc said:


> Well, crap. Ha.


I swap USB cables and it works perfect with my 4s. I was shocked.


----------



## quinn_the_eskimo

Does anyone know if the 7th gen iPod Classic 160gb works on this unit?


----------



## quality_sound

Yes.


----------



## quinn_the_eskimo

quality_sound said:


> Yes.


Thank you.


----------



## Hanatsu

Ipod 5 touch works with this unit btw.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## abusiveDAD

excellent insight never tried just assumed


----------



## abusiveDAD

Oh ,,,,, PM sent


----------



## preston

How is your AM reception ? I've always had a problem with aftermarket radios having much worse AM reception than factory radios, and strangely enough it seems like cheaper aftermarket HU's are often better than more expensive ones. I put the 99rs in my Dodge using the Scosche antenna adapter. FM seems to work okay, but I get no AM reception at all. I have seen in the past that FM will work even with no antenna so it is possible there is an antenna problem but I did have the antenna apart and back together and there didn't seem to be any problems with it. I have not done a continuity check though. I have the predecessor 800prs deck in my car and AM is just fine. 

So anyone else have a comment on 99prs AM reception quality ?


----------



## avanti1960

preston said:


> How is your AM reception ? I've always had a problem with aftermarket radios having much worse AM reception than factory radios, and strangely enough it seems like cheaper aftermarket HU's are often better than more expensive ones. I put the 99rs in my Dodge using the Scosche antenna adapter. FM seems to work okay, but I get no AM reception at all. I have seen in the past that FM will work even with no antenna so it is possible there is an antenna problem but I did have the antenna apart and back together and there didn't seem to be any problems with it. I have not done a continuity check though. I have the predecessor 800prs deck in my car and AM is just fine.
> 
> So anyone else have a comment on 99prs AM reception quality ?


check your continuity and antenna ground. 

my P99 AM reception is outstanding- noise free and solid. Not that I listen to AM that often


----------



## quality_sound

If you have no AM in a newer car you likely need a powered antenna adapter.


----------



## Hanatsu

Never knew that AM was still used. We (Sweden) stopped using AM like 30 years ago... or so 

The P99's radio reception is exceptional, the little I've listened to radio.


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> Never knew that AM was still used. We (Sweden) stopped using AM like 30 years ago... or so
> 
> The P99's radio reception is exceptional, the little I've listened to radio.


The artist Bruce Springsteen made a song entitled "57 Channels and Nothing On" from the legendary acoustic CD "Nebraska". He made this song as cable television started becoming mainstream and lamented that the idea of more channels available does not necessarily mean anything of value will be broadcast on them. 

AM radio is kind of like that. The metro area I live in has 57 FM radio stations and 42 AM stations. 
I listen to (1) FM station (decent music) and (2) AM stations- mainly for sports.
The majority of AM stations are talk oriented- political, sports, news, religion, ethnic, Spanish language and other special interests.
Basically you are not missing much over there in Sweden.


----------



## Hanatsu

Wow that's a lot of Stations. I have 6-7 stations here... not a single one with decent music xD

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## svnuss

I'm bout to pull the trigger on this HU and you guy's are going to make it alot easier to setup the system.


----------



## quality_sound

If I could find the BT module new, I already would have.


----------



## avanti1960

What do you P99 owners do for tone control in the absence of bass / midrange / treble knobs? 

I tried as diligently as I could to develop a single EQ curve that would work for most of my recordings. Unfortunately while the "thinnest" sounding recordings do sound OK (barely) the ones with heavy bass are still way over the top and just not clean sounding. 

I will probably just use the multiple EQ preset route but I like to define those via RTA rather than just adjusting EQ bands on the fly. This process takes time and once set, I like to not tinker with the curve. 

I would still like a nice bass control just to make quick adjustments on the fly. What do you guys do for on the run tone adjustments? 

Any thoughts?


----------



## subwoofery

avanti1960 said:


> What do you P99 owners do for tone control in the absence of bass / midrange / treble knobs?
> 
> I tried as diligently as I could to develop a single EQ curve that would work for most of my recordings. Unfortunately while the "thinnest" sounding recordings do sound OK (barely) the ones with heavy bass are still way over the top and just not clean sounding.
> 
> I will probably just use the multiple EQ preset route but I like to define those via RTA rather than just adjusting EQ bands on the fly. This process takes time and once set, I like to not tinker with the curve.
> 
> I would still like a nice bass control just to make quick adjustments on the fly. What do you guys do for on the run tone adjustments?
> 
> Any thoughts?


Subwoofer amp bass knob? Maybe... 

Kelvin


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> What do you P99 owners do for tone control in the absence of bass / midrange / treble knobs?
> 
> I tried as diligently as I could to develop a single EQ curve that would work for most of my recordings. Unfortunately while the "thinnest" sounding recordings do sound OK (barely) the ones with heavy bass are still way over the top and just not clean sounding.
> 
> I will probably just use the multiple EQ preset route but I like to define those via RTA rather than just adjusting EQ bands on the fly. This process takes time and once set, I like to not tinker with the curve.
> 
> I would still like a nice bass control just to make quick adjustments on the fly. What do you guys do for on the run tone adjustments?
> 
> Any thoughts?


I never change EQ based on recordings. I do have a remote gain control for the subwoofer, it's the only thing I change if the recording sounds too thin.

The "tone controls" found on cheaper HUs are often a mid-Q EQ-bands focused around 100/1000/10000Hz fyi.


----------



## quality_sound

You have 5 presets available. 

On another note, the ENTIRE Stage 4 line has been removed from the Stage 4 page on the Pioneer site. Buried somewhere in a pic archive they show the P80 are a Stage 4 product but the only things you can find about the P99 are the owner's and installation manual. I don't know if that means it's being replaced or just discontinued but I figured you guys would want to know.


----------



## avanti1960

subwoofery said:


> Subwoofer amp bass knob? Maybe...
> 
> Kelvin


thanks- and I do use the sub level control on the deck occasionally but the frequencies I need to adjust are in the 80 to 250 Hz range or so. In other words adjusting the sub level does not do the job.


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> I never change EQ based on recordings. I do have a remote gain control for the subwoofer, it's the only thing I change if the recording sounds too thin.
> 
> The "tone controls" found on cheaper HUs are often a mid-Q EQ-bands focused around 100/1000/10000Hz fyi.


understood- the tone controls usually have a wide Q as well but they are simple adjustments easy to make on the fly. 
the JBL MS-8 includes remote bass/mid/treble adjustments. 

many decent OE systems probably dial in a baseline EQ curve and then supply the bass/mid/treble to fine tune from there.


----------



## avanti1960

quality_sound said:


> You have 5 presets available.
> 
> On another note, the ENTIRE Stage 4 line has been removed from the Stage 4 page on the Pioneer site. Buried somewhere in a pic archive they show the P80 are a Stage 4 product but the only things you can find about the P99 are the owner's and installation manual. I don't know if that means it's being replaced or just discontinued but I figured you guys would want to know.


Thanks for the info. I am hoping they do replace it with a new and improved P99 even though I probably wouldn't upgrade soon- it would just be sad to think the leading mobile electronics manufacturer would not find a business case to develop and produce an audiophile deck. 

I'll probably go the 5-preset route and just dial in some high Q curve adjustments from baseline.


----------



## edouble101

quality_sound said:


> You have 5 presets available.
> 
> On another note, the ENTIRE Stage 4 line has been removed from the Stage 4 page on the Pioneer site. Buried somewhere in a pic archive they show the P80 are a Stage 4 product but the only things you can find about the P99 are the owner's and installation manual. I don't know if that means it's being replaced or just discontinued but I figured you guys would want to know.


I noticed this yesterday as well.

If Pioneer replaces that P99 I am eager to see what is next!...not that I have any complaints with my P99, parametric eq would be nice though


----------



## quality_sound

I'm gonna wait and see but if they don't replace it with something good I will scrounge up a P99 and the BT module.


----------



## pjc

If there is a double din version.... That would be perfect.


----------



## quality_sound

That's what I'm hoping for as well.


----------



## avanti1960

pjc said:


> If there is a double din version.... That would be perfect.


 you might want to bump up your post count- quickly!


----------



## pjc

avanti1960 said:


> you might want to bump up your post count- quickly!


Huh?


----------



## jstoner22

666 posts. Something bad has to happen


----------



## pjc

jstoner22 said:


> 666 posts. Something bad has to happen


Ohhhhh lol. I was so confused. I use the mobile app and it doesn't show post count. Thanks for the clarification lol.


----------



## avanti1960

well you learn something new every day and maybe you knew this about the P99, maybe you did not- but
yesterday i learned that you can mute a given channel (sub, low, mid or high, L or R) just by going to the network 1 position for each- and simply down press the multi-function knob until the mute setting is displayed. 
i could have used this a long time ago during the tuning process. 
it was immediately useful to check the stage position of each side front to rear based on TA settings.


----------



## Hanatsu

Yep. Great function 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## subwoofery

avanti1960 said:


> well you learn something new every day and maybe you knew this about the P99, maybe you did not- but
> yesterday i learned that you can mute a given channel (sub, low, mid or high, L or R) just by going to the network 1 position for each- and simply down press the multi-function knob until the mute setting is displayed.
> i could have used this a long time ago during the tuning process.
> it was immediately useful to check the stage position of each side front to rear based on TA settings.


Good reason why people should read the manual... :laugh:

Kelvin


----------



## Earzbleed

I so wish I hadn't read the OP. I'd just convinced myself I was content with my current equipment.


----------



## quality_sound

I hear ya. I'm thinking about one and it would be nothing but the transport. I have no need for any of its processing.


----------



## avanti1960

subwoofery said:


> Good reason why people should read the manual... :laugh:
> 
> Kelvin


 I did read it- just missed this one. Sure enough, it is in there.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 6/22/13. 
After some struggle of how to do some minor tonal adjustments on the fly with the P99 relative to the base "tune" or EQ setting, I did some research about common center frequencies and Q factor for the typical bass, midrange and treble controls found in many OEM head units.
The goal is to make minor tonal adjustments to compensate for different recordings that may be off balance in one region of the frequency spectrum or another. 
Since the P99 does not include bass, midrange or treble controls and I have not found the perfect sweet spot tune curve that will make every recording sound great, I did need some capability for real time adjustments. 
The idea of multiple EQ memory settings was attempted but you quickly become very limited by the (5) available memory presets. For example, a +/- 2 db range for the bass, midrange and treble "bands" in 1/2 db increments would require 512 memory settings for all of the possible combinations. Not achievable or practical. 
The conclusion I came to is that most bass, midrange and treble controls center at 100Hz, 1.25Khz and 8Khz with a nominally mid level Q-factor. Not too wide and not too narrow. 
So I predetermined that adjusting the "bass" would consist of an EQ boost or cut at 100Hz, (example 1db) followed by a boost or cut of half the amount (e.g. 0.5db) at the frequency bands just before and after 100Hz- being 80 and 125Hz. So a bass boost resembles an even shaped bell curve centered at 100 Hz and tapering to zero just before and after each neighboring frequency band. 
A "midrange" boost of 2-db would consist of a 1 db boost at 1Khz, a 2db boost at 1.25 Khz and a 1db boost at 1.6Khz. A treble adjustment would center at 8Khz and be followed by adjustments of 1/2 that amount at the 6.3 and 10Khz bands. 
This is done because the P99's 31 band EQ is just too sharp of a resolution at each individual band to make a noticeable difference. The individual bands have a low, narrow q-factor. 
In practice, a little cumbersome but I did save my base EQ curve and created another to make adjustments with without losing the original. 
I made some nice on the fly adjustments to a given CD that was just a little bass heavy and midrange muddled so that once set, the entire CD sounds great. 
All in all an excellent "poor man's" bass, midrange and treble controls.


----------



## jebcamaro

Still there...

DEX-P99RS - Stage 4 Reference Series CD Receiver | Pioneer Electronics USA


----------



## 82801BA

Is it more expensive than before?


----------



## quality_sound

Same price. Same unit. Instill can't figure out why the Stage 4 page was empty for a bit.


----------



## avanti1960

crutchfield has it for the exact price I paid a year and a half ago. other places have it the same or higher - e.g. woofers etc. abt. 

for a while there the unit was not available to many retailers (in fact, only crutchfield online) when the stage 4 product became more exclusive for some reason. 
-
i'm experiencing an occasional loss of display when i adjust the audio with the MFC. it comes back on when i let go- or in one case i had to cycle the power.


----------



## quality_sound

Sounds like the ribbon cable is going bad.


----------



## Kevin K

Let us know if that continues.


----------



## Hanatsu

Had the same issue with the display. It was the connector, cleaned it with some ethanol and it worked awesome again! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## avanti1960

thanks for the tip!


----------



## Hanatsu

Btw, found this thread on another forum. About some guy modding his P99, thought it belonged in this thread. Give it a read if you're interested 

DEX-P99RS tear down and hacking fun! - General Car Audio - Talk Audio


----------



## MacLeod

Boy that guys got a pair on him. No way I could tear down my P99. I dont even touch the faceplate! I just rub it down with a diaper every night.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hanatsu said:


> Had the same issue with the display. It was the connector, cleaned it with some ethanol and it worked awesome again!
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


hey

How long have you been using the P99...Curious to know after how much time it gave you this issue...and by connector which one exactly the one in the back I assume?


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

anyone bought a separate bluetooth adapter for this baby?
And if they have is it working well?


----------



## quality_sound

The BT module for it works better than almost every other one I've used.

The hard part is finding one.


----------



## 82801BA

I have really bad experience with the add-on bluetooth module...

Sent from my GT-N7005 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

quality_sound said:


> The BT module for it works better than almost every other one I've used.
> 
> The hard part is finding one.


What's the model number of the module that works bestfor this


----------



## quality_sound

The BT200


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

quality_sound said:


> The BT200


Thanks Bud. This model is quite old. Though. I have tried to find a newer one for this deck but no cigar. I wish there was some portable one available.


----------



## Hanatsu

Tropikal_Knights said:


> hey
> 
> How long have you been using the P99...Curious to know after how much time it gave you this issue...and by connector which one exactly the one in the back I assume?


About 1 year of daily usage. Hardly ever remove the front or play CDs so I was kinda surprised that the connector had issues.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## ike3000

82801BA said:


> I have really bad experience with the add-on bluetooth module...
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7005 using Tapatalk 2


Nearly every review I've read said the same. If it had reliable BT I would have chosen it over the 80PRS. Sound quality isn't as good but BT was necessary.


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> Had the same issue with the display. It was the connector, cleaned it with some ethanol and it worked awesome again!
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


Issue became more frequent- alcohol on the connectors and now good as new, thanks again. 
The connector pins seem small compared to previous head units.


----------



## abusiveDAD

i would save some money and buy the focals raw...
esp. w/ all that processing power


----------



## umdmath55

you mean without the crossblocks? like run active?


----------



## umdmath55

abusiveDAD said:


> i would save some money and buy the focals raw...
> esp. w/ all that processing power


like run active without the crossblocks? and also get rid of the bit1? and which combo would you use mc/mc mc/odr odr/thesis? and why?


----------



## narvarr

umdmath55 said:


> like run active without the crossblocks? and also get rid of the bit1? and which combo would you use mc/mc mc/odr odr/thesis? and why?


Sorry but this is a thread for P99RS/DEH-P01 discussion. You question should be posted in the "System Design" section. You'll probably get more traffic and better help there. Most of the people that read this thread are folks that are interested in or own a P99RS. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## quality_sound

Anyone come up with a way to get more grip on the P99's volume knob? Love the HU, HATE that control. 

Maybe they'll update it at CES with all the bells, whistles, and a knob that doesn't suck.


----------



## Schizm

quality_sound said:


> Anyone come up with a way to get more grip on the P99's volume knob? Love the HU, HATE that control.
> 
> Maybe they'll update it at CES with all the bells, whistles, and a knob that doesn't suck.


I forget what the knob is like but is it a solid plastic peice or like a metal wheel with a rubber belt around the circumference?


----------



## quality_sound

It's smooth metal and wouldn't be so bad but the resistance to movement is pretty high so it's a bad combination. A rubber grip like Alpine units, while maybe not the most attractive method, is INFINITELY more user-friendly.


----------



## Schizm

Wonder if someone could make a band of knobby rubber to for around old units.


----------



## abusiveDAD

Schizm said:


> Wonder if someone could make a band of knobby rubber to for around old units.


 Talon Grips for Glock, XD, XDM, Kahr, Ruger and Kel-Tec Pistols. Free Shipping!

cut to size--- might just be what you are looking
just make sure you get the rubber version


----------



## avanti1960

wow- completely used to the volume knob and not an issue whatsoever. i do like the one on my old alpine though- it was nice and large and (if I recall correctly) knurled.


----------



## quality_sound

Maybe it's because the one I was borrowing was Japanese. Hmmmmm...


----------



## quality_sound

abusiveDAD said:


> Talon Grips for Glock, XD, XDM, Kahr, Ruger and Kel-Tec Pistols. Free Shipping!
> 
> cut to size--- might just be what you are looking
> just make sure you get the rubber version


Maybe that could work. I was initially thinking small RC car tires would work too. Maybe even something like the Tamiya slot car tires. Well, they're not true slot cars but that's kind of beside the point. lol


----------



## Al Pacino

OMG what to do what not to do, guys I am planning to buy a p99rs or a p88rs2 with processor, kindly help guys as I am confused by some people stating that the sound of p99 is more clinical.


----------



## WestCo

Al Pacino said:


> OMG what to do what not to do, guys I am planning to buy a p99rs or a p88rs2 with processor, kindly help guys as I am confused by some people stating that the sound of p99 is more clinical.


p99rs does sound clinical...
It is best used as a source unit for ipods/iphone it does an amazing job for them. My Asian friends into high fidelity sources agree...

I really think your best bang for your buck is a nice older alpine, eclipse, or kenwood and a good processor. It will sound much more dynamic and 3D. I noticed a huge improvement when I went to external processing. 

Pioneer 99rs 1200$
Older source unit - around 300$ - rockford 3sixty.3 - 500$ = 800$ and to my ears it sounds better. 

Also buy good rca's I use vampire wire RCAs.


----------



## avanti1960

Al Pacino said:


> OMG what to do what not to do, guys I am planning to buy a p99rs or a p88rs2 with processor, kindly help guys as I am confused by some people stating that the sound of p99 is more clinical.


Clinical, as in clean? Lots of critical listeners are running P99s. 

IMHO even if there were SQ advantages in running older units (which is questionable) the ability to tune everything on the fly in real time (crossover points, slopes, time alignment, driver levels, EQ levels) without having to stop, drag out a laptop, etc. is something that you have to seriously consider. 
If you are an experienced tuner who can dial everything in on the first try or so, then you may get more value and tuning flexibility out of a cheaper deck and outboard DSP.


----------



## MacLeod

Buy the P99. It's a work of art. It's a superb source unit with all the processing you'll need. And best of all, no noise. If you go with an external processor, you'll be fighting noise issues. And like the guy a over said, it's a lot more fun being able to tune on the fly, while driving or sitting in a parking lot without having to lug around a laptop. And it's a lot easier to tune without a laptop in your lap too. 

And just LOL at "clinical sounding". I went from an Alpine 9861 and H700 to my P99 and never noticed any clinical sound. 

You get a pristine source, literally TONS of tuning features, zero noise and a gorgeous faceplate. If you can afford it and are considering it, buy it.


----------



## quality_sound

Using an external processor does not mean you'll be fighting noise. Some units, like the 360.3, are noisy as hell. Not all of them are though.


----------



## Al Pacino

avanti1960 said:


> Clinical, as in clean? Lots of critical listeners are running P99s.
> 
> IMHO even if there were SQ advantages in running older units (which is questionable) the ability to tune everything on the fly in real time (crossover points, slopes, time alignment, driver levels, EQ levels) without having to stop, drag out a laptop, etc. is something that you have to seriously consider.
> If you are an experienced tuner who can dial everything in on the first try or so, then you may get more value and tuning flexibility out of a cheaper deck and outboard DSP.





MacLeod said:


> Buy the P99. It's a work of art. It's a superb source unit with all the processing you'll need. And best of all, no noise. If you go with an external processor, you'll be fighting noise issues. And like the guy a over said, it's a lot more fun being able to tune on the fly, while driving or sitting in a parking lot without having to lug around a laptop. And it's a lot easier to tune without a laptop in your lap too.
> 
> And just LOL at "clinical sounding". I went from an Alpine 9861 and H700 to my P99 and never noticed any clinical sound.
> 
> You get a pristine source, literally TONS of tuning features, zero noise and a gorgeous faceplate. If you can afford it and are considering it, buy it.


Thanks guys for the replies and I agree on one thing that on the fly adjustment is a very necessary than doing it with the laptops and stuff , I have got used to my pio 8850 that I can operate everything from remote without even looking at the headunit which is a great plus I think as the pioneer UI is very friendly unlike alpine, I once installed the 9887 and even after 3-4 months when I had to adjust something I had to stop the car literally and press various buttons on the HU for setting the eq and other settings and the UI was simply useless and I didn't like the sound of alpine which just saturated my ears after some time and I was using the alpine r series components with an jbl amp, I tried for many months to let the sound grow on me but in the end I returned to my favourite Pioneer 860mp so alpine or an alpine processor is out of question and regarding the Jbl or audison or mosconi prosessors I don't have any knowledge about them but if I have to adjust them via computers and stuff than its a big no.


----------



## MacLeod

quality_sound said:


> Using an external processor does not mean you'll be fighting noise. Some units, like the 360.3, are noisy as hell. Not all of them are though.


There is no guarantee of it tho. While it might not be the norm with other external processors, it's still something thats definitely out there. Just look around here and you'll see various threads asking about a noise issue with a Bit One or H800 or whatever. Switching a signal from digital to analog to digital them back to analog is just asking for it. I'd rather just keep everything digital as long as possible. 

Now the UI is downright crazy with the P99 and at first you'll get frustrated but give it time. After about a week or two working with one, you'll be moving thru the menus pretty easy. I've had mine for over a year now and can do it almost blindfolded. So if you do get one, just remember that you'll hate the UI and think you made a mistake but make yourself give it some time and I promise you it'll get 10 times easier.


----------



## quality_sound

I haven't seen anyone even mention noise with the H800 since its first update almost 2 years ago. Might have been longer than that. The H800 will do what he needs and is noise free. Stop scaring him.


----------



## slade1274

quality_sound said:


> ...Some units, like the 360.3, are noisy as hell....





quality_sound said:


> Stop scaring him.


Says the pot to the kettle 

I know MANY folks that have zero noise issues from their 360 as well.

Just sayin'.... everyone on here has their preferred brands as well as those brands they wouldn't give the sweat off their ..... well, you get the picture.

My first production run 360.3 was a brick, but they remedied the situation and I've had zero problems since. Along with MANY other users that have zero problems.

Face it, all external DSP products had their issues at launch and all have them fixed. If you get a bum unit from any of them- return it and get a new one or take a shot with a different brand.


----------



## Al Pacino

Confused but the thing is I have been listening to pioneer since the last 15 or so years and the only time I switched was for a alpine 9887 which I didn't like at all , and I am quite intelligent but not that much that I can take my alienware in the car and start tuning the DSP as I trust my ears to do all the tuning because in the end my mind will be happy listening to the sound that is loved by my ears and not some computer that set the sound for me , so the safe bet that I think is to go for the pioneer P99rs which I have a less chance of hating than some other stuff I haven't heard before, and I also understand that one must experiment because sound is such an area that one cannot perfect but it is going to be costly affair for me which I can't afford right now so I must start saving to get the p99 soon.I will also hunt for the P01 as the number 01 sounds cool and the extra amp won't hurt but lets see.


----------



## MacLeod

quality_sound said:


> I haven't seen anyone even mention noise with the H800 since its first update almost 2 years ago. Might have been longer than that. The H800 will do what he needs and is noise free. Stop scaring him.


Settled down son. I'm not scaring anybody nor am I saying there will be loud, bloodcurdling screams coming from your speakers if you use an external processor. All I was saying is that you're a whole lot less likely to have noise problems going with a P99 than you will an external processor because the signal isn't converted from analog to digital a half dozen times. Never meant to imply it's a deal breaker. Just that it's one more "pro" on the list of reasons to get the P99 over a standard head unit and external processor.


----------



## Al Pacino

One another thing guys will the focal krx2 be a good match for the p99 as I don't want to go 3 way or can you suggest any other speakers


----------



## WestCo

Al Pacino said:


> One another thing guys will the focal krx2 be a good match for the p99 as I don't want to go 3 way or can you suggest any other speakers


If you can... go for a 3 way front stage it is really worth the extra time and expense.


----------



## Griffin dai

Hi, I'm interested in the P99RS and a few other high end units as an upgrade from my 80PRS. I'd really appreciate any input in the below thread and your opinion of the head units mentioned vs the Pionner  Especially the Mcintosh MX406, Clarion DRZ9255 & Pioneer P90 (if you've used them)

Thanks Dave

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...1-high-end-head-unit-options.html#post1936905


----------



## dsh2009

hello all,

been lurking on here for years on an off. wading back in to the forum now due to new purchase of 99RS.

i plan on going back and scanning this entire thread, but have not done so as of yet.

basically i am looking for any tips, tricks, or guidance around the install of my new 99RS. it is replacing an 80PRS so i'm already pretty familiar with setup and menu operation.

as i get closer to the install (probably be in a couple weeks as my weekend coming up is full) i may have more specific actual questions, but for now i thought i would just throw it out there and see if any of you has any input for me prior to the unit going in. maybe just need someone to check my work and tell me if i am missing anything or screwing anything up with my intended setup parameters.

so, with that in mind, here is a run-down of the system. any advice is appreciated!

vehicle: 1994 Mercedes-Benz E320 Cabriolet
HU: Pioneer 99RS
Speakers: MB Quart QSD 210 2-way components (4" mid and 1" titanium tweet) in factory dash locations, Focal Access 6.5" in factory door locations.
Sub: Alpine SWR-10D4 Type-R 10" in sealed enclosure in trunk
Amp: McIntosh MC440 6-channel (50X4 + 100X2)
Sub Amp: Alpine PDX-M12 (1200X1)

as i envision this setup it will be 3-way active, like so:

tweets (dash): powered @ 50W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 4.5K Hz @ 18db slope
4" mids (dash): powered @ 50W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 250Hz @ 12db slope, LP 4.5K Hz @ 18db slope
6.5" (doors): powered @ 100W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 80Hz @ 24db slope, LP at 250Hz @ 12db slope

does that all make sense? the area where i am weak with this stuff is crossover points and slopes, really.

not to complicate things right off the bat but i do also have an Alpine PDX-V9 laying around from a previous install so i was considering adding it to the mix. if i was to do so, i would use it just to drive the Focal 6.5"s in the doors, bridged at 200W/per. that would allow me to also bridge the McIntosh so that i am running 100W/per to my tweets and my 4" mids in the dash. any thoughts on this option?

sorry this got kind of long - thanks in advance for any responses!

-d


----------



## Hanatsu

dsh2009 said:


> hello all,
> 
> been lurking on here for years on an off. wading back in to the forum now due to new purchase of 99RS.
> 
> i plan on going back and scanning this entire thread, but have not done so as of yet.
> 
> basically i am looking for any tips, tricks, or guidance around the install of my new 99RS. it is replacing an 80PRS so i'm already pretty familiar with setup and menu operation.
> 
> as i get closer to the install (probably be in a couple weeks as my weekend coming up is full) i may have more specific actual questions, but for now i thought i would just throw it out there and see if any of you has any input for me prior to the unit going in. maybe just need someone to check my work and tell me if i am missing anything or screwing anything up with my intended setup parameters.
> 
> so, with that in mind, here is a run-down of the system. any advice is appreciated!
> 
> vehicle: 1994 Mercedes-Benz E320 Cabriolet
> HU: Pioneer 99RS
> Speakers: MB Quart QSD 210 2-way components (4" mid and 1" titanium tweet) in factory dash locations, Focal Access 6.5" in factory door locations.
> Sub: Alpine SWR-10D4 Type-R 10" in sealed enclosure in trunk
> Amp: McIntosh MC440 6-channel (50X4 + 100X2)
> Sub Amp: Alpine PDX-M12 (1200X1)
> 
> as i envision this setup it will be 3-way active, like so:
> 
> tweets (dash): powered @ 50W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 4.5K Hz @ 18db slope
> 4" mids (dash): powered @ 50W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 250Hz @ 12db slope, LP 4.5K Hz @ 18db slope
> 6.5" (doors): powered @ 100W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 80Hz @ 24db slope, LP at 250Hz @ 12db slope
> 
> does that all make sense? the area where i am weak with this stuff is crossover points and slopes, really.
> 
> not to complicate things right off the bat but i do also have an Alpine PDX-V9 laying around from a previous install so i was considering adding it to the mix. if i was to do so, i would use it just to drive the Focal 6.5"s in the doors, bridged at 200W/per. that would allow me to also bridge the McIntosh so that i am running 100W/per to my tweets and my 4" mids in the dash. any thoughts on this option?
> 
> sorry this got kind of long - thanks in advance for any responses!
> 
> -d


You should borrow or buy some measurement gear to find out what the optimal crossover filters are. Electrical and acoustical crossover points are rarely the same thing. It's pretty impossible to choose optimal crossover settings with basically no data to go on. A USB mic ain't that expensive, it will help you a great deal when tuning your system


----------



## dsh2009

Hanatsu said:


> You should borrow or buy some measurement gear to find out what the optimal crossover filters are. Electrical and acoustical crossover points are rarely the same thing. It's pretty impossible to choose optimal crossover settings with basically no data to go on. A USB mic ain't that expensive, it will help you a great deal when tuning your system


great advice and thank you for it! i actually have a Behringer ECM8000 which i just had professionally calibrated by Herb at Cross-Spectrum, which i can use with my M-Audio mobile-Pre USB mic preamp and MacBook Pro laptop to obtain measurements in the car. still shopping for the right RTA/audio analyzer software but should get that sorted soon. trouble is even with a pretty decent level of testing gear i am a novice when it comes to tuning so that's going to be a real learning-curve as far as figuring out the right testing methodology to determine my crossover and slope points.

thanks again - any tips on measurement would be great if you have them too!

-d


----------



## carlchj

Great thread! This has been very educational and informative.I have a question that may seem out of place and I hope its ok to ask it here. I am a big fan of Pioneer and have been for years. I have no doubt from what ive been reading here that the P99RS is top shelf. My question is this. Can you get the same sq out of the AVH-X8500 with a DSP unit such as the Alpine PXA-H800 ? I ask that because I like the other features offered in the H800 but Pioneer only offers a DSP in the P99. I like all of the stage 4 equipment including the components (3 way with the ts-s062) I just want the video, Bluetooth, and touch screen offered in theH-800.


----------



## Hanatsu

dsh2009 said:


> great advice and thank you for it! i actually have a Behringer ECM8000 which i just had professionally calibrated by Herb at Cross-Spectrum, which i can use with my M-Audio mobile-Pre USB mic preamp and MacBook Pro laptop to obtain measurements in the car. still shopping for the right RTA/audio analyzer software but should get that sorted soon. trouble is even with a pretty decent level of testing gear i am a novice when it comes to tuning so that's going to be a real learning-curve as far as figuring out the right testing methodology to determine my crossover and slope points.
> 
> thanks again - any tips on measurement would be great if you have them too!
> 
> -d


No need to buy software. Get RoomEQ (REW), it's very powerful, lots of features and easy to use. Best of all, it's free.

Get it here; RoomEQ Downloads

Here's two recent threads on tuning with REW; 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/150611-rew-first-encounter.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/144755-what-weird-rta-saying-about-my-sub.html


----------



## dsh2009

Hanatsu said:


> No need to buy software. Get RoomEQ (REW), it's very powerful, lots of features and easy to use. Best of all, it's free.
> 
> Get it here; RoomEQ Downloads
> 
> Here's two recent threads on tuning with REW;
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/150611-rew-first-encounter.html
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/144755-what-weird-rta-saying-about-my-sub.html


thank you very much for the referral to REW, i am downloading it now.

the package i was looking at using was FuzzMeasure Pro and Spectre - any opinion on these applications vs. REW?

thanks!

-d


----------



## Hanatsu

dsh2009 said:


> thank you very much for the referral to REW, i am downloading it now.
> 
> the package i was looking at using was FuzzMeasure Pro and Spectre - any opinion on these applications vs. REW?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> -d


Never heard of Spectre but I've seen Fuzz - ain't that a Mac only app? To be honest, I find it unlikely that REW has less features than any other measure program.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## dsh2009

Hanatsu said:


> Never heard of Spectre but I've seen Fuzz - ain't that a Mac only app? To be honest, I find it unlikely that REW has less features than any other measure program.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


yes it's mac only. i'm running all osx here so need something mac-friendly. will give REW a whirl though - i used to use TrueRTA on my PC laptop years ago with the same mic-pre and ECM800 with good results. hoping REW is at least as good. again, gear and software not an issue, but my lack of expertise in utilizing them is.

-d


----------



## Hanatsu

REW is much more powerful than TrueRTA.


----------



## avanti1960

Griffin dai said:


> Hi, I'm interested in the P99RS and a few other high end units as an upgrade from my 80PRS. I'd really appreciate any input in the below thread and your opinion of the head units mentioned vs the Pionner  Especially the Mcintosh MX406, Clarion DRZ9255 & Pioneer P90 (if you've used them)
> 
> Thanks Dave
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...1-high-end-head-unit-options.html#post1936905


The Mac is a no go because it does not have a processor. 
I have heard great things about the Clarion and would love to try one one day but the EQ was not flexible enough for me and I believe it may have some kind of fatal flaw that affects its durability. 
I have owned Pioneer receivers and head units since my teenager days and they have never let me down. I still have and use a Pioneer A/V receiver that I bought in 1987 and it's going strong.


----------



## avanti1960

dsh2009 said:


> hello all,
> 
> been lurking on here for years on an off. wading back in to the forum now due to new purchase of 99RS.
> 
> i plan on going back and scanning this entire thread, but have not done so as of yet.
> 
> basically i am looking for any tips, tricks, or guidance around the install of my new 99RS. it is replacing an 80PRS so i'm already pretty familiar with setup and menu operation.
> 
> as i get closer to the install (probably be in a couple weeks as my weekend coming up is full) i may have more specific actual questions, but for now i thought i would just throw it out there and see if any of you has any input for me prior to the unit going in. maybe just need someone to check my work and tell me if i am missing anything or screwing anything up with my intended setup parameters.
> 
> so, with that in mind, here is a run-down of the system. any advice is appreciated!
> 
> vehicle: 1994 Mercedes-Benz E320 Cabriolet
> HU: Pioneer 99RS
> Speakers: MB Quart QSD 210 2-way components (4" mid and 1" titanium tweet) in factory dash locations, Focal Access 6.5" in factory door locations.
> Sub: Alpine SWR-10D4 Type-R 10" in sealed enclosure in trunk
> Amp: McIntosh MC440 6-channel (50X4 + 100X2)
> Sub Amp: Alpine PDX-M12 (1200X1)
> 
> as i envision this setup it will be 3-way active, like so:
> 
> tweets (dash): powered @ 50W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 4.5K Hz @ 18db slope
> 4" mids (dash): powered @ 50W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 250Hz @ 12db slope, LP 4.5K Hz @ 18db slope
> 6.5" (doors): powered @ 100W/per by MC440, crossed over HP around 80Hz @ 24db slope, LP at 250Hz @ 12db slope
> 
> does that all make sense? the area where i am weak with this stuff is crossover points and slopes, really.
> 
> not to complicate things right off the bat but i do also have an Alpine PDX-V9 laying around from a previous install so i was considering adding it to the mix. if i was to do so, i would use it just to drive the Focal 6.5"s in the doors, bridged at 200W/per. that would allow me to also bridge the McIntosh so that i am running 100W/per to my tweets and my 4" mids in the dash. any thoughts on this option?
> 
> sorry this got kind of long - thanks in advance for any responses!
> 
> -d


Hey, welcome and enjoy your new system! 

I would definitely recommend you bridge the amp for the door midbass drivers- for starters. 
If you would like a simple quick install method that will get you in the ball park with respect to level matching your drivers, crossovers and time alignment the following worked for me-

1) Crossover points. Most likely you will find that your sub / midbass crossover point that sounds the best will be 80Hz, 24db, reverse phase on the subwoofer. I have not achieved better results with any other settings and currently I am running a 12" sealed sub and 6.5" midbass drivers.
For setting the crossovers between the midbass / mids and tweeters I would recommend a smart combination of RTA plots and known sweet spot of the individual drivers. 
I did RTA sweeps of each set of drivers playing in matched pairs, 6 position mic averaging, then examined the curves. The crossover points were set in an area common to each driver where it was relatively flat. For example, my midbass driver's curves started rolling off at ~ 1.6 Khz and my midrange drivers did not become flat until about 1Khz. Therefore I set the crossover at 1.25 Khz, 24db. It sounds the best as well- I have experimented with other crossover points but this one does sound the best- it passes the curve test and the ears test. 24db slopes is kind of a gold standard setting for linked drivers that are far apart in distance. 
You can also use the RTA curves to level set your drivers as well, assuming your amplifier gains are already set by voltage level or known gain setting. Be sure to switch off all amplifier crossovers and filters. However, level setting my drivers by RTA did not work as well as the ears test. I had to adjust the mids / tweeter levels by ear to blend with the midbass. 
As for time alignment, so far I have not been able to beat the method of precision measurement to individual ear positions. 
By that I use a folding ruler that doesn't sag like a tape measure, and measure distances between the individual left drivers and left ear, then the right drivers to right ear. 
I have not been able to improve on this method and it beats the Pioneer autotune settings by a mile. 
Another thing that doesn't pass the ears test for me is RTA for setting the EQ. No mater what I do I can get these nice looking RTA curves that should sound good. They line up perfectly with pre conceived ideas of what good curves should sound like- example plus 10db between 20Hz and 60Hz, taper smoothly to 16o Hz, flat until 3Khz, etc. 
The BEST method for setting my tonality is the filtered pink noise test method. It passes the ears test. 
Get one of those test CDs, example sheffield labs my disk, tracks 47 to 56 have 3 bands each of pink noise in frequency bands that match exactly to the DEX's 32 band EQ. 
I listen a few times through, take notes of the ones that are really high or really low, and assign a value score. Try to get some of the sub bass tones to actually sound as loud to your ears as the midbass tones- this is your perception. Don't overdo the tones 30hz and below tones. You can adjust your sub level to boost, use the EQ only to cut. 
Then do a quick check of the relative loudness of each track of three- i.e. quickly skip from 49-50, 51, 52 etc to get the relative loudness equal to your ears. 
Now go back and level each individual track within itself- remember each track has three frequencies. So you want 49, 50, 51, all to sound level- now make 49-1, 49-2 and 49-3 all sound level to 49-1. This is because as the tracks go up in frequency it is easy to lose track of the relative loudness between the track numbers. For me, I achieved nice system tonality to my ears when playing music- when the pink noise frequencies sound level to my ears. RTA curves measure that the sound should be balanced by frequency but not necessarily to how your ears perceive them. 
These steps should get you in the ball park where you can fine tune to your contentment. Always try to log a given tune settings- keep a log book- and copy your EQ to a band that becomes your reference if you happen to adjust things on the go and misplace where you were.

Good luck- let us know how it goes!


----------



## dsh2009

avanti1960 said:


> Hey, welcome and enjoy your new system!
> 
> I would definitely recommend you bridge the amp for the door midbass drivers- for starters.
> If you would like a simple quick install method that will get you in the ball park with respect to level matching your drivers, crossovers and time alignment the following worked for me-
> 
> 1) Crossover points. Most likely you will find that your sub / midbass crossover point that sounds the best will be 80Hz, 24db, reverse phase on the subwoofer. I have not achieved better results with any other settings and currently I am running a 12" sealed sub and 6.5" midbass drivers.
> For setting the crossovers between the midbass / mids and tweeters I would recommend a smart combination of RTA plots and known sweet spot of the individual drivers.
> I did RTA sweeps of each set of drivers playing in matched pairs, 6 position mic averaging, then examined the curves. The crossover points were set in an area common to each driver where it was relatively flat. For example, my midbass driver's curves started rolling off at ~ 1.6 Khz and my midrange drivers did not become flat until about 1Khz. Therefore I set the crossover at 1.25 Khz, 24db. It sounds the best as well- I have experimented with other crossover points but this one does sound the best- it passes the curve test and the ears test. 24db slopes is kind of a gold standard setting for linked drivers that are far apart in distance.
> You can also use the RTA curves to level set your drivers as well, assuming your amplifier gains are already set by voltage level or known gain setting. Be sure to switch off all amplifier crossovers and filters. However, level setting my drivers by RTA did not work as well as the ears test. I had to adjust the mids / tweeter levels by ear to blend with the midbass.
> As for time alignment, so far I have not been able to beat the method of precision measurement to individual ear positions.
> By that I use a folding ruler that doesn't sag like a tape measure, and measure distances between the individual left drivers and left ear, then the right drivers to right ear.
> I have not been able to improve on this method and it beats the Pioneer autotune settings by a mile.
> Another thing that doesn't pass the ears test for me is RTA for setting the EQ. No mater what I do I can get these nice looking RTA curves that should sound good. They line up perfectly with pre conceived ideas of what good curves should sound like- example plus 10db between 20Hz and 60Hz, taper smoothly to 16o Hz, flat until 3Khz, etc.
> The BEST method for setting my tonality is the filtered pink noise test method. It passes the ears test.
> Get one of those test CDs, example sheffield labs my disk, tracks 47 to 56 have 3 bands each of pink noise in frequency bands that match exactly to the DEX's 32 band EQ.
> I listen a few times through, take notes of the ones that are really high or really low, and assign a value score. Try to get some of the sub bass tones to actually sound as loud to your ears as the midbass tones- this is your perception. Don't overdo the tones 30hz and below tones. You can adjust your sub level to boost, use the EQ only to cut.
> Then do a quick check of the relative loudness of each track of three- i.e. quickly skip from 49-50, 51, 52 etc to get the relative loudness equal to your ears.
> Now go back and level each individual track within itself- remember each track has three frequencies. So you want 49, 50, 51, all to sound level- now make 49-1, 49-2 and 49-3 all sound level to 49-1. This is because as the tracks go up in frequency it is easy to lose track of the relative loudness between the track numbers. For me, I achieved nice system tonality to my ears when playing music- when the pink noise frequencies sound level to my ears. RTA curves measure that the sound should be balanced by frequency but not necessarily to how your ears perceive them.
> These steps should get you in the ball park where you can fine tune to your contentment. Always try to log a given tune settings- keep a log book- and copy your EQ to a band that becomes your reference if you happen to adjust things on the go and misplace where you were.
> 
> Good luck- let us know how it goes!



wow! thank you SO much for this - i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to respond in such detail!

this gives me a great place to start - looks like i'll be spending some serious time in the tuning phase of this install, but hell, that's half the fun right?

again, thank you!

-d


----------



## avanti1960

dsh2009 said:


> wow! thank you SO much for this - i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to respond in such detail!
> 
> this gives me a great place to start - looks like i'll be spending some serious time in the tuning phase of this install, but hell, that's half the fun right?
> 
> again, thank you!
> 
> -d


you're welcome! 

achieving a nice tune through balancing out the band limited pink noise tones seems to have some staying power. i was struggling with RTA curves and while I could achieve curves that looked very good, playback of the test pink noise tones revealed some high and low spots (to my ears) that did not show up on the RTA. In the end I listened to my ears and so far it seems very workable and I will continue to refine it.


----------



## dsh2009

some initial thoughts on the 99RS, now that it's in the car.

first thing i noticed is how quiet it is - really, really no noise floor - i've read others say the same but wow. big points for that.

second is the accuracy of the auto TA. i ran the auto TA/EQ setup routine and then compared the TA measurements with my own actual measurements and on the front stage (six drivers) the numbers were all within an inch of actual measurements. i did some tweaking but the auto got me very close. this surprised me, pleasantly. however for some reason the sub (trunk located) was way off - literally almost exactly double the actual distance.

the auto EQ, well, jury is still out. sounds pretty good to my ears, no really obvious holes or peaks, but i need to do some proper measurements and have not had time to get into that yet.

overall very happy with the purchase so far and looking forward to more refinement of the setup.

-d


----------



## dsh2009

went through some drama with my MC440 amp the last few days which was keeping me from hearing the 99RS as it should be.

i want to first give a shout-out to forum member Golden Ears who was key in helping resolve my McIntosh issue - thanks again man!

also a big shout-out to the guys at George Meyer here in Los Angeles. they are the service shop for all McIntosh car audio - even the factory uses them - and they run a GREAT shop. they helped me resolve my issues with the Mac as well, and were nothing but super professional, super knowledgeable, just first-class service all the way. so nice to get service like that - rare these days! highly recommend to anyone needing their gear fixed.

ok so now for the sound...

so got everything back in the car this afternoon and ran the auto setup. 

HOLY CRAP. 

this is what i wanted. this what you pay so much for when you buy this kind of gear.

wow. just running the auto-tune setup has given me the best sounding car setup i've ever had (and i've been playing with this stuff since i had the old Soundstream CLass A reference amps in the early 1990's).

i fiddled with the TA numbers a little and i have a VERY clear, distinct center image which is making me super happy. i need to dial this in a little more over time as i would really like to widen the soundstage to the left, but i am happy for now.

also i will be checking the EQ as there are a few low-end issues that i need to dig into, which may be EQ or just simply the sub level.

even at full volume, with external source paused, there is ZERO noise coming through this deck. nothing. so sweet.

so stoked!

-d





dsh2009 said:


> some initial thoughts on the 99RS, now that it's in the car.
> 
> first thing i noticed is how quiet it is - really, really no noise floor - i've read others say the same but wow. big points for that.
> 
> second is the accuracy of the auto TA. i ran the auto TA/EQ setup routine and then compared the TA measurements with my own actual measurements and on the front stage (six drivers) the numbers were all within an inch of actual measurements. i did some tweaking but the auto got me very close. this surprised me, pleasantly. however for some reason the sub (trunk located) was way off - literally almost exactly double the actual distance.
> 
> the auto EQ, well, jury is still out. sounds pretty good to my ears, no really obvious holes or peaks, but i need to do some proper measurements and have not had time to get into that yet.
> 
> overall very happy with the purchase so far and looking forward to more refinement of the setup.
> 
> -d


----------



## avanti1960

Update August 12th, 2013: 
After 1 year and nearly 6 months after popping the P99 into the dash I'm still finding new ways to improve the sound. If I'm writing something like this a year and a half from now I should have achieved complete audio consciousness and enlightenment. Talk about your value. 
The topics of today's update include a revisit to RTA, a revisit to full-range rear fill, a visit to a reference system and encounters with crossover overlapping and underlapping as well as developing your understanding of what you value in your system's sound characteristics. 

1) RTA. I thought I had given up on using RTA as a means to set a basic response curve in favor of using band limited pink noise test tones and adjusting by ear. The problem with that approach is that you have no baseline to work with other than your own memory. Once a basic test tone by ear response was achieved, it was difficult to know how much to adjust which EQ band to adjust the sound according to what it was missing. With a baseline RTA curve you can establish a reference from which to work from and develop. In my recent case the mid range clarity was missing and without RTA (for me) it seemed like I was adjusting blindly and not getting anywhere. So I established a new RTA curve (included) and so far so good.

2) Revisit to full range rear fill. After ditching the rear fill (assuming it was the source of destructive interference / comb filtering, which I assumed was affecting my SQ) I could not achieve a front stage only tune that sounded as good. Just something about the properly time aligned and leveled rear drivers that made for a more open, spacious but still focused sound. It turns out that the assumption about the rear stage comb filtering being the source of my SQ issue was not correct. 

3) Reference system. I was fairly ticked off after a recent tuning session revealed that I had a high amount of sibilance and brightness. I played the CD on my home system and found the recording is what possessed the brightness and sibilance. Don't beat yourself up over the occasional bad recording and check your reference system- even headphones / ear phones. 

4) Crossover overlapping. Reading about the typical null / cancellation response dip many vehicles exhibit around the 60-70 Hz region led me to try multiple adjustments in order to help fix it. As shown on the RTA, the only measure that was sonically pleasing as well as effective was overlapping the midbass drivers and the subwoofer. Higher crossover points on the sub, shallower slopes, phase. time corrections, etc. did not help or were measurable as was a simple overlap- setting the midbass to HP at 63Hz 24db and the sub to LP at 80 Hz 24 db was both sonically noticeable and RTA measurable. 
Being able to do the overlap and then go in and re-adjust the EQ for a smooth bass response (without boosting, which seemed to make "strained" sounding bass when boosting to fill a null). Readjusting after the lower midbass HP contributed to the success of this solution. So far so good. 

5) Crossover underlapping. After reading a link in a fellow DIYMA member's build log about a high end home speaker system that makes use of underlapping midbass and midrange crossover points- and relies on the summed response to fill in the valley- I decided to measure the response of my midbass upper limit and midrange lower limit at the exact same crossover point. As measured, each individual driver was playing a shelved response well beyond the crossover point and as such there was about an octave of overlap where the midbass and midrange were playing the same frequencies and at equal level. This can't be good, I thought to myself. So I shifted the HP of the midrange by an octave, then re-measured individual and summed responses. No more overlap and they sum to a smooth response through the crossover frequency. So far so good- it does seem to sound better and more focused- especially vocals. 

6) Developing an understanding of what you prefer in your "sound". I'm still doing this. I'm finding that I am starting to prefer uber clarity and openness in the sound with occasionally dynamic (but realistic) sounding bass attacks and less of an overall blurred warmth to the sound. It took some time to realize this- and it is a very specific tonality that has to be right on the money. The sooner you can develop your own specific sound preference, the sooner you will stop chasing your tail from one sound to another. Good luck!


----------



## Gary Mac

Does the p99 work with iPhone 5? Also, I understand the p99 does not support the pandora app like the 80prs, but one can still stream pandora (or any Internet radio) through ones phone and it will still play on the p99 the iPhone connection correct?

I did not get to read the whole thread, so, my apologies in advance. I'm just trying to decide what will work best if I pull my oem hu.


----------



## edouble101

Yes it will work with the iPhone5. You will need a USB to lightning cable.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 8/18/2013. 
This is basically a tuning update- how to refine the EQ settings of the P99- and the understanding of equal loudness curves- and how to apply this info. 
As an owners of the P99, we are faced with the dilemma of how to achieve the best possible sound quality given the fact that we are "left hanging" with an autotune that does not achieve this goal- and a 32 band EQ with no shelf filters and not easily tuned by ear. 
Assuming you have your drivers level matched and the best possible crossover points and slopes, we take the RTA route and wonder which frequency response curves to target. What does my best sound frequency response curve look like? 
In the previous update we did some things to improve SQ but were left with an overall harshly bright sound on many music sources- despite a curve many find pleasing. The challenge becomes determining which frequencies to cut and by how much.

I did some additional research of equal loudness curves, the science that illustrates more / or less power (volume) is needed at any given frequency in order for our ears to say they are at an equal level. While you do not want to apply these curves at face value, especially in areas of your system's response that you are happy with, they do illustrate the key frequencies where our ears are most sensitive. Use the curves as a reference for which frequencies to target. For example, it wouldn't take a great leap in understanding to realize that a system with overly bright upper midrange, with pronounced localization of the midrange and tweeter drivers in a highly amplified as well as reflective environment, despite a flat or pleasing RTA response curve, still needs some cuts in the levels of key frequencies in order to sound better. 
The equal loudness curves tell you which frequencies to go after. 
A very cool link I found is your own personal frequency sensitivity test. This test really helped me to target the frequencies my ears are most sensitive to. Check it out!

Equal loudness contours and audiometry - Test your own hearing 

Also, there have been updates since the fletcher munson equal loudness curve was derived. The most recent curve is the ISO (International Standards Organization) curve- ISO- 226 from 2003. Testing equipment has changed big time since the fletcher munson era of 1937. 

http://www.lindos.co.uk/cgi-bin/FlexiData.cgi?SOURCE=Articles&VIEW=full&id=17 

In my case my ear test matched almost identically to the ISO curve. However, the important takeaway is that the curve is volume dependent- meaning that since your ears are more sensitive at lower volume levels, the curve and therefore the adjustment needed are different depending on volume level. You have to reference the curve at your anticipated listening volume reference at 1Khz. 
I took the test at a low volume level and it indicated some drastic differences (e.g. 9db between 1.5K and 4K) Therefore I assumed I would be listening at much higher volume levels ( I picked the 60db @ 1.5Khz curve). 
Then I applied these adjustments and derived a new RTA curve between 500Hz and 5Khz, the area critical in my car. So basically I have a slight +3db shelf between 800Hz and 1.6Khz, followed by an evening out below 500 Hz to the typical Andy curve in the bass region, and followed by a leveling out from 1.6Khz to 2Khz, followed by a 3db trough from 2Khz to 5Khz with the peak dip at 3Khz, then a gentle downward slope after 5Khz. 
So far it sounds much better, a little bright, but it is in line with my preference. 
Next steps might be to make different EQ curves for different volume levels- example a more contoured curve for lower volumes added to an EQ preset (The P99's loudness button is heavy handed IMHO) and perhaps another less contoured curve for when you really want to crank it. 

Best of luck in your continued quest for improving your system's sound quality.


----------



## jriggs

Just recently, when I press and hold the open button nothing happens. I have to turn off the car and open a door in order to open and remove the faceplate.

Is this a symptom of a bad/dirty/dying ribbon cable or is something else going on?

Thanks for any insights and/or suggestions.


----------



## quality_sound

Probably dirty faceplate connector. try cleaning both halves with rubbing alcohol and a cotton swab.


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## derickveliz

*I like what I read here! *

*Good job avanti1960* putting everything in black and white!

Subscribed !

.


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## Theronh357

Subscribed.


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## avanti1960

no problem dudes. 
man what an odyssey it has been. my sound continues to improve over time- little changes here and there- EQ, levels, learning what to adjust for what music- every time I used to put on a different CD it was like an adventure how to get it tuned properly. now it may take just a little sub level or balance adjustment and it's there. 
unfortunately the "tune" has morphed into shades of a fletcher-munson bose type of clean, smooth sound yet with more clarity and definitely more drama and dynamics. 
the issue. is that if you go for a more up front sound, the tune will not work for all varieties of music, so its a compromise- yet a very good one. 
the other day i thought i heard traces of your typical lower grade mp3 sound- i don't know what to call it- kind of like a cymbal sound that has a slight warble, delay and blur to it? like a satellite radio signal but not as bad, despite that I play only CDs. 
this got me pondering if it could be some artifacts of the digital processing within the DEX. If true, I may be in the market for something else some day- maybe a clarion drz or whatever and possibly a mcintosh- although i believe they are out of the mobile audio biz. their website has deleted all mobile products for many months now. 
probably just a bad cd from a starving artist who used bad e-files to cut the CD with! 
peace, audio nuts.


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## sszyma

My biggest problem with the HU is that some (well maybe most) CD's are not recorded that well anymore. Sometime I wish I never upgraded everything so I wouldn't realize how bad some recordings are.

Also the iphone 5s does work with the HU.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

sszyma said:


> My biggest problem with the HU is that some (well maybe most) CD's are not recorded that well anymore. Sometime I wish I never upgraded everything so I wouldn't realize how bad some recordings are.
> 
> Also the iphone 5s does work with the HU.


You cant blame the HU for technological progess (HU) and technological deficiencies (poorly recorded music media). Its time the rest caught up.


----------



## sszyma

Tropikal_Knights said:


> You cant blame the HU for technological progess (HU) and technological deficiencies (poorly recorded music media). Its time the rest caught up.


Unfortunately I think the days of producing high quality studio recordings is over. I'll put a Dire Straits CD in and I am blown away.


----------



## avanti1960

sszyma said:


> My biggest problem with the HU is that some (well maybe most) CD's are not recorded that well anymore. Sometime I wish I never upgraded everything so I wouldn't realize how bad some recordings are.
> 
> Also the iphone 5s does work with the HU.


Agreed, but you can use the P99 to help tune even bad recordings to sound their best. This take some time and patience but it is worth it. 
Great recordings tend to shine through whatever tune / RTA curve you are running- often they sound great on inexpensive systems. They will still sound great even when you tune for bad recordings. 
Look for tendencies in the sound of bad recordings- a little crispy in the lower treble maybe? Bass a little too hard, predominant or boomy? Midrange too bright? These are all tendencies you can carefully tune out and will make the bettr recordings sound even better.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

sszyma said:


> Unfortunately I think the days of producing high quality studio recordings is over. I'll put a Dire Straits CD in and I am blown away.



Old Skool was always a different class.....pretty much in everything


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

avanti1960 said:


> Agreed, but you can use the P99 to help tune even bad recordings to sound their best. This take some time and patience but it is worth it.
> Great recordings tend to shine through whatever tune / RTA curve you are running- often they sound great on inexpensive systems. They will still sound great even when you tune for bad recordings.
> Look for tendencies in the sound of bad recordings- a little crispy in the lower treble maybe? Bass a little too hard, predominant or boomy? Midrange too bright? These are all tendencies you can carefully tune out and will make the bettr recordings sound even better.


Sage advice


----------



## sszyma

I know FM quality sucks but, does anyone else notice the not so great reception on this unit. AM come in crystal clear for news. I listen to FM sometimes and the quality is not so great. I have the antenna amp powered. The alpine 149bt that the P99 replaced had great reception. I also know for a fact it is not the unit as I swapped it with another p99 already. I starting to think the issue may be related to the antenna amplifier being more of a match to the OEM and 149bt head units.


----------



## avanti1960

i think the p99's fm is very good- specs are right up there for sensitivity, etc. but i did notice the overall sound quality impression seemed to be as if it was not as good as the OEM head unit. at first it was plain awful but now it sounds much better than original. most of this was due to the systems sound tuning being off so as to exaggerate the worst qualities of the FM signal. 
because the P99 is so revealing, you need to be dead on with crossover selection between midrange and tweeter, crossover slopes, and final frequency response. 
if your tune is on the bright side, and you have crossover overlap or phase issues resulting in comb interference- the FM can sound horrid- you'll be playing right into the static / multipath distortion sweet spot if these aspects of your tune are off kilter. 
remember also that most OEM systems have big frequency response dips in these areas and tend to be bass heavy, basically not even reproducing the frequencies where FM can sound it's worst.


----------



## sszyma

One more quirk: When using an iPod (either AAC or alac tracks) the elapsed time bar just stays on zero, although the track plays fine and I can go forward or backward. I think it happens when I move too many tracks at once with the steering wheel controls. This is with a 7th gen ipod with lightning connector.


----------



## Hanatsu

sszyma said:


> One more quirk: When using an iPod (either AAC or alac tracks) the elapsed time bar just stays on zero, although the track plays fine and I can go forward or backward. I think it happens when I move too many tracks at once with the steering wheel controls. This is with a 7th gen ipod with lightning connector.


Noticed this aswell. Happens if you switch songs too fast... ^^

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


----------



## sszyma

Glad I am not the only one. CD's ripped with ALAC do sound quite nice though


----------



## ross.cottrill

Subd ,great advice here's guys!this is why I love this site so much


----------



## bengee

Subscribed. 

I'm experiencing a little trouble with adjustments on my P99.

it sounds great, but i know it can get way better.
swiched from an 80PRS, two month ago.


----------



## avanti1960

you guys are catching the tail end of this one, if you have any questions please post. still running the P99, going strong and i use it constantly and it allows my system to sound incredible.


----------



## robtr8

I couldn't help but notice Stage 4 has lost a tab on the Pioneer USA website. And the P99 got a special mention in the Crutchfield flyer this week. And the head of Pioneer NA has resigned. I'm just wondering aloud.


----------



## chasintrane

Question for you P99 experts:

Can you run a full bandwidth signal out of each channel (high, med., low)? Or do you have to work with the x-over parameters listed in the manual?

I'm mostly curious about running a quasi-active set up out of the high channel. It would be a HAT L4 bi-amped with their L1 using HAT x-overs. Is it possible to run a full signal out of the high channel out of the P99 and set a high pass of around 400Hz at the amp?

I'd want to keep the mid, low, and sw channels for something else.  Just going over some system designs in my mind. I've checked out the manuals for the P99 and it is not clear to me if you can run full bandwidth signals out of the high channel.

Thanks!


----------



## The Performer

chasintrane said:


> Question for you P99 experts:
> 
> Can you run a full bandwidth signal out of each channel (high, med., low)? Or do you have to work with the x-over parameters listed in the manual?
> 
> I'm mostly curious about running a quasi-active set up out of the high channel. It would be a HAT L4 bi-amped with their L1 using HAT x-overs. Is it possible to run a full signal out of the high channel out of the P99 and set a high pass of around 400Hz at the amp?
> 
> I'd want to keep the mid, low, and sw channels for something else.  Just going over some system designs in my mind. I've checked out the manuals for the P99 and it is not clear to me if you can run full bandwidth signals out of the high channel.
> 
> Thanks!


I believe you can just set the slope to flat and it will output full bandwidth.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

chasintrane said:


> Question for you P99 experts:
> 
> Can you run a full bandwidth signal out of each channel (high, med., low)? Or do you have to work with the x-over parameters listed in the manual?
> 
> I'm mostly curious about running a quasi-active set up out of the high channel. It would be a HAT L4 bi-amped with their L1 using HAT x-overs. Is it possible to run a full signal out of the high channel out of the P99 and set a high pass of around 400Hz at the amp?
> 
> I'd want to keep the mid, low, and sw channels for something else.  Just going over some system designs in my mind. I've checked out the manuals for the P99 and it is not clear to me if you can run full bandwidth signals out of the high channel.
> 
> Thanks!


IIRC, the high ch has a fixed highpass applied. I believe 1kHz/6dB was the lowest you can go...


----------



## chasintrane

Hanatsu said:


> IIRC, the high ch has a fixed highpass applied. I believe 1kHz/6dB was the lowest you can go...


Bummer! Can anyone else verify this? The manual says 800Hz is the lowest HPF you can apply. However, there is the PASS option for slope. Does choosing the PASS option for slope send out a full range signal out the high RCA's?

So, if someone was using an external processor, the P99 would only send a signal above 800Hz out of the high output? 

Anyone else have any experience with this?


----------



## bengee

i dont remember the exeact numbers, but i do know that there is a "defence" for the high output so that one will not accedentliy burn his tweeters.

can't you do your thing with the mid's output? they can play full range.


----------



## WrenchGuy

I believe all outputs are full/PASS

manual shows 800 HPF


----------



## quality_sound

If Pioneer dumps the P99 and doesn't announce a successor at CES I'm definitely going to pick one up, hopefully on sale somewhere.


----------



## avanti1960

chasintrane said:


> Question for you P99 experts:
> 
> Can you run a full bandwidth signal out of each channel (high, med., low)? Or do you have to work with the x-over parameters listed in the manual?
> 
> I'm mostly curious about running a quasi-active set up out of the high channel. It would be a HAT L4 bi-amped with their L1 using HAT x-overs. Is it possible to run a full signal out of the high channel out of the P99 and set a high pass of around 400Hz at the amp?
> 
> I'd want to keep the mid, low, and sw channels for something else.  Just going over some system designs in my mind. I've checked out the manuals for the P99 and it is not clear to me if you can run full bandwidth signals out of the high channel.
> 
> Thanks!


Unfortunately not on the high channel- most likely built-in tweeter protection so consumers are not pissed off because of blown tweeters during the autotune function. 
You are limited to 800Hz, 6 db / octave High Pass on the high channel. All others can be full pass. 
I have my midrange with passive low pass / high pass to tweeter on the high channel. 
Some very credible mobile audio experts believe that an 800Hz crossover between midbass and midrange works well with the typical lower door / upper door or a-pillar configuration. Hopefully they are right because with the P99 running rear fill 800 Hz is it.


----------



## chasintrane

avanti1960 said:


> Unfortunately not on the high channel- most likely built-in tweeter protection so consumers are not pissed off because of blown tweeters during the autotune function.
> You are limited to 800Hz, 6 db / octave High Pass on the high channel. All others can be full pass.
> I have my midrange with passive low pass / high pass to tweeter on the high channel.
> Some very credible mobile audio experts believe that an 800Hz crossover between midbass and midrange works well with the typical lower door / upper door or a-pillar configuration. Hopefully they are right because with the P99 running rear fill 800 Hz is it.


Bummer! Thanks for the info avanti. This is exactly what I was curious about.


----------



## Gary Mac

I'm about to install a p99, I can't decide if I want to do 2-way plus sub and rears, or just two way with sub. 

Either way, I can use the 1st of outputs for highs correct?


----------



## jodyz

Gary Mac said:


> I'm about to install a p99, I can't decide if I want to do 2-way plus sub and rears, or just two way with sub.
> 
> Either way, I can use the 1st of outputs for highs correct?


I had my P99 running F/R/S and it is definitely no optimum. Mine has been sitting in it's box for over a year since removing it from my previous vehicle as I'm still looking for just the right amp & two way front stage speakers for my '12 Accord sedan. Also considering a band-pass vented through the sub grill so my trunk lid doesn't rattle. Spare $$ is limiting factor for now. IMO, if you want to run F/R/S, get a different, less expensive HU.


----------



## Griffin dai

I've finally found one to replace my 80prs. Can't wait to get my mitts on it! 
Best get reading through this thread again 

The 80PRS was great but I wanted to go 3 way plus subs. Was a toss up between the P99 & Clarion DRZ9255. Hope its worth it :blush:


----------



## cobraa

Owner of a 9887 who drive a modded supra and listen to rap/rock/dance music throught his Ipod... Will I see a benefit/upgrade with the p99rs !? Running active 2way if that matter.

Does the p99rs carry the same warmth sound as other Pioneer unit ( I had a p780mp a while back) vs my alpine ( more crisp/clear) sound ?


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

By the way if one was to plug an ipod through the USB of the 99 would the sound be the same or would it be improved

I know it sounds crazy but last time I played some music through my cell and the sound was different even though I tried playing the same song 320kpbs quality recording on a cd and through my cell

so I never quite figured out why the difference?


----------



## Hanatsu

iPod/USB/CD sources are all identical. AUX-in however is not. 

Can't remember, but ain't some of the "sound improvement" settings stored into different sources? So it remembers the settings for USB and one for CD etc etc. Could be wrong, otherwise it's probably the brain playing tricks on you. Everything is processed through the same DACs.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hanatsu said:


> iPod/USB/CD sources are all identical. AUX-in however is not.
> 
> Can't remember, but ain't some of the "sound improvement" settings stored into different sources? So it remembers the settings for USB and one for CD etc etc. Could be wrong, otherwise it's probably the brain playing tricks on you. Everything is processed through the same DACs.


Okay thanks for the input. however having such a sensitive hear i am 100% sure that the same song played from my phone through bluetooth and even usb is different quality than when i plugged in the ipod......

I would much rather like the pure sound from the 99 rather than have all these different media storages putting their own "spin" on things.


----------



## Hanatsu

Ok. If there is a difference and the settings remain the same - I have no clue what it could be. I've seen the test results on the USB/iPod vs CD and the inputs measured practically identical to each other. Since the same DACs are used to process both the USB and CD audio, the logical conclusion would be that they should be sonically identical to each other.

But I rarely even use any CDs. I store all my music on my iPod. Never thought of potential differences...


----------



## t3sn4f2

Hanatsu said:


> *Ok. If there is a difference and the settings remain the same - I have no clue what it could be. I've seen the test results on the USB/iPod vs CD and the inputs measured practically identical to each other. Since the same DACs are used to process both the USB and CD audio, the logical conclusion would be that they should be sonically identical to each other.*But I rarely even use any CDs. I store all my music on my iPod. Never thought of potential differences...


x2. Maybe jitter, but there we are getting into the realm of ridiculous if we think a modern high end DAC is not going to reject it enough when connected to a modern high quality digital source (ie ipod). I'd say maybe a setting on the iPod itself is throwing things off. Or something is broken or it's simply sighted bias at work.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hanatsu said:


> Ok. If there is a difference and the settings remain the same - I have no clue what it could be. I've seen the test results on the USB/iPod vs CD and the inputs measured practically identical to each other. Since the same DACs are used to process both the USB and CD audio, the logical conclusion would be that they should be sonically identical to each other.
> 
> But I rarely even use any CDs. I store all my music on my iPod. Never thought of potential differences...


Okay I think the question I should be asking is whether or not any of this is real?

So I will try three different media storage files from three different phones including HTC, Samsung and iphone 5s and see if it is different from the ipod sound. Then I will try to test the same song in 320kpbs format on a normal usb as well as hear it on a cd and see what the results are.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

t3sn4f2 said:


> x2. Maybe jitter, but there we are getting into the realm of ridiculous if we think a modern high end DAC is not going to reject it enough when connected to a modern high quality digital source (ie ipod). I'd say maybe a setting on the iPod itself is throwing things off. Or something is broken or it's simply sighted bias at work.


reject it enough meaning that the ipod will take precedence or the 99 dac will reign supreme?

either way Am going to try the experiment detailed above


----------



## t3sn4f2

Tropikal_Knights said:


> reject it enough meaning that the ipod will take precedence or the 99 dac will reign supreme?
> 
> either way Am going to try the experiment detailed above


The type of DAC has an effect on the amount of jitter measured in the system. There are technologies implemented into it (such as ASRC in a Clarion DRZ-9255) that reduce the measured amount even if the main culprit is the digital source (ie CD transport, iPod, etc.). So the DAC helps reject the systems jitter.


----------



## Griffin dai

Has anybody tried a different MP3 player with the p99?

I'm in the market for a new one, not too fussed on getting an iPod (got my iphone5) so was looking at these two:

Colorfly | Colorfly Pocket HiFi | 192KHz/24Bit

Sansa Clip+ MP3 Player by SanDisk

The colorfly is very expensive but can be had around £300 used, Sansa clip seems a great sounding MP3 player for a fraction of the price. But is it worth having these over the iPod if the p99 upscales the audio anyway?


----------



## southpawskater

Does any one know of a good IP bus disc changer that works with the P99 cant find any info in the P99 manual or on Pioneers website.


----------



## t3sn4f2

southpawskater said:


> Does any one know of a good IP bus disc changer that works with the P99 cant find any info in the P99 manual or on Pioneers website.


Curious, why get a limited cd changer that can't even digitally interface with the head unit? You're better off in every way by simply using a thumb drive. Most of the times people use CD changer nowadays is strictly for the purpose of using what they feel is a better SQ medium (ie CD). But with this app you don't even get that.


----------



## southpawskater

t3sn4f2 said:


> Curious, why get a limited cd changer that can't even digitally interface with the head unit? You're better off in every way by simply using a thumb drive. Most of the times people use CD changer nowadays is strictly for the purpose of using what they feel is a better SQ medium (ie CD). But with this app you don't even get that.



In all honesty strictly for additional devices and creativity points in competition.
I already have an IPhone for streaming and playing my digital music.
But with the Pioneer IP bus system you can control external devices through the head unit so it would interface just fine, I’m just not sure which models are compatible, thus the question


----------



## mrpeabody

t3sn4f2 said:


> Curious, why get a limited cd changer that can't even digitally interface with the head unit? You're better off in every way by simply using a thumb drive. Most of the times people use CD changer nowadays is strictly for the purpose of using what they feel is a better SQ medium (ie CD). But with this app you don't even get that.


Agreed. 

You'd be loosing the great digital transport that really makes the P99 shine.


----------



## mrpeabody

southpawskater said:


> In all honesty strictly for additional devices and creativity points in competition.
> I already have an IPhone for streaming and playing my digital music.
> But with the Pioneer IP bus system you can control external devices through the head unit so it would interface just fine, I’m just not sure which models are compatible, thus the question


Ah yeah that makes sense.

I have my ip-bus for the headphone jack from my phone, sounds like dookie though lol.


----------



## t3sn4f2

southpawskater said:


> *In all honesty strictly for additional devices and creativity points in competition.*I already have an IPhone for streaming and playing my digital music.
> But with the Pioneer IP bus system you can control external devices through the head unit so it would interface just fine, I’m just not sure which models are compatible, thus the question


Ah ok.


----------



## MB2008LTZ

I do not fully understand the last 5/6 posts but to the guy looking for a cd changer that mates with a p99...I have a premier 868 or 686 6 disc changer, not sure what the # is exactly. I have had this 6 disc changer for about 10+ years. It has been connected to every pioneer ip bus deck I have had since. Including, but not all or any particular order...prs880..prs800...p860...p920r..p930..p940...p840...p7800...and the currently installed p99rs....I think any ip-bus changer should be compatible.


----------



## Tropikal_Knights

Hello avanti 1960

Long time....Have sent you a PM
when you get the time please reply
thanks


----------



## dk2020

Can anyone confirm that iPod or iPhone can playback gapless through the DEX-P99RS? Both Apple Lossless and lossy MP3 and AAC?

What about files stored on USB? I assume MP3 and AAC will not play gaplessly. But WAV?


----------



## Hanatsu

Gapless? Talking about the delay when it changes track? I think there's a small pause between each track... never thought about it really. Why is that important?


----------



## dk2020

Gapless Playback for albums that should play smoothly from one track to the next, such as Dark Side of the Moon or DJ mixes.

CD's are usually played gapless, FLAC and Apple Lossless are often implemented gapless. MP3 and AAC are usually where there are issues, during the transcoding a bit of silence is often added to the beginning or end of the file. iTunes for example scans MP3 files and analyses the amount of silence so that it can do it's best to playback gaplessly in iTunes and on iPods and iPhones.


----------



## jstoner22

You can always just remove gaps using dBpoweramp when converting to ALAC.


----------



## dk2020

I don't think I've ever seen a head-unit that can play MP3 files gaplessly. I'd assume that this deck also will not play an album gaplessly in MP3 from USB or a MP3 file on a CD. If it does that would be impressive.

What it should be able to do though is play the albums gapless from the iDevice in MP3, AAC and Apple Lossless, since the iDevice can already do that. But since the data is bypassing the internal DAC and sent to the head-unit to be processed I'd like feedback to make sure it does work.

I'm brainstorming my next setup. Either:
a) DEX-P99RS and iPod Classic as source
b) iPad or iPad mini feeding a Audison Bit Ten or something

With an iPad I know for sure that any MP3 or AAC or Apple Lossless will be played gapless, I'd like to know if I can get similar functionality from DEX-P99RS. I have a library that is mostly MP3 since I can't hear the difference from lossless. However I listen to a lot of classical music and DJ mixes and do not enjoy the gaps between MP3s.


----------



## avanti1960

Update April 29, 2014. Still running the DEX-P99 after 2 years and 2 months- and still tuning! 
There is just no substitute for on the fly tuning capability of the DSP- you get to learn the impact of the most subtle changes to crossover frequency, slope, time alignment distance, etc. It did take a while but it was worth the time and effort. The ability to achieve near perfect phase response at the listening position is just incredible. I am still marveling at how great this deck and my system sounds.
My EQ is now set in stone- one setting sounds great for all of my music. The idea of understanding what frequencies your ears are sensitive to- and backing off as appropriate- was an epiphany. 
I am starting to expand my home audio now and use my car system as the reference standard- it used to be the other way around! 
The home audio world is all about DACs, and I have yet to find any that can compare to the 4 burr browns used in the P99. 
Peace everyone and happy SQ!


----------



## Hanatsu

Still tuning? Wow... I tune for a day or so then leave it xD

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## avanti1960

Hanatsu said:


> Still tuning? Wow... I tune for a day or so then leave it xD
> 
> Tapaaatalk!!


well how about "minor adjustments"? i am a perfectionist but my system has issues- radio source, especially AM for some reason wants to pull to the right and CD / higher frequencies want to pull to the left. I have not been able to correct it completely.


----------



## Hanatsu

You guys still use AM? We stopped using it during the 70's lol.

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## Edmg4889

P99 doesn't have Burr Brown's, I believe it has AKM custom DAC's&#55357;&#56397;


----------



## piyush7243

Edmg4889 said:


> P99 doesn't have Burr Brown's, I believe it has AKM custom DAC's?


Yep. It has custom akm dac's

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## gfbl

hi all, will be using a p-01 mated with a helix dsp. was wondering if i should use a 80prs instead as i would not be taking advantage of the processing capability of the p-01. It would be strictly transport. Is it worth using it for transport only? Or use the 80 prs? Thanks.


----------



## Hanatsu

80PRS then. They perform the same.

Tapaaatalk!!


----------



## Edmg4889

My Multi control knob makes my display turn off (audio still plays) whenever I try to adust settings by moving it up or down. Moving it Sideways doesn't do it.. It seems that the faceplate is somewhat loose, because if I hold it tight while adjusting with the knob, it doesn't do it. Has anyone had a problem with this? Is there a way to tighten the faceplate? Or perhaps clean the contacts?

Thanks&#55357;&#56397;


----------



## avanti1960

Edmg4889 said:


> My Multi control knob makes my display turn off (audio still plays) whenever I try to adust settings by moving it up or down. Moving it Sideways doesn't do it.. It seems that the faceplate is somewhat loose, because if I hold it tight while adjusting with the knob, it doesn't do it. Has anyone had a problem with this? Is there a way to tighten the faceplate? Or perhaps clean the contacts?
> 
> Thanks��


clean the contacts w/ alcohol. 

my volume control started "intermittently" not working. i'll have to try contact cleaning again. guys into vintage home audio swear by this contact cleaner called "de-oxit". i may give that a try.


----------



## Konnan101

Is there anyway to connect an android phone (specifically Samsung Galaxy S4), to the p99rs? My current setup is ipod classic 160gb, which I love. But sometimes I want to play something off Spotify which is on my phone, and the headphone jack sounds terrible.


----------



## Edmg4889

I use the aux2 on the rear with a BUS to rca adapter and it sounds pretty decent... Not as good as the ipod input though...


----------



## Konnan101

That is what I am using right now, and yea it does sound pretty decent. You think it would be pretty easy for them to do a firmware update to use that USB for android devices.


----------



## Edmg4889

They could probably integrate Android if they wanted to, but I wouldn't hold my breath... Their new NEX units have android capability, but the P99RS , I think, is a niche product designed to do a few things very well.. I don't think they will do android .. Of course, I could be wrong...


----------



## beehiveramesh

avanti1960 said:


> clean the contacts w/ alcohol.
> 
> my volume control started "intermittently" not working. i'll have to try contact cleaning again. guys into vintage home audio swear by this contact cleaner called "de-oxit". i may give that a try.



I have a situation: When I turn up the volume, the volume decreases and I have turn it up several times to bring the volume up. However, this function works fine with a remote. Is this the "intermittently" not working situation that you face ?


----------



## derickveliz

*I wish somebody knows how I could install my P99 having the boddy hidden in the glove compartment and the Face of the Head Unit detached.*

Any body?

Thanks

D.


----------



## slade1274

..... and want it to work? 

What, like a "wired remote" that is the face plate?


----------



## derickveliz

slade1274 said:


> ..... and want it to work?
> 
> What, like a "wired remote" that is the face plate?



*YES!*

D.


----------



## derickveliz

*I still would like to use the remote and have the Face be attached somewhere in the dash.
*
D.


----------



## BigRed

derickveliz said:


> *I still would like to use the remote and have the Face be attached somewhere in the dash.
> *
> D.


like this?


----------



## derickveliz

BigRed said:


> like this?
> 
> View attachment 53767


Wow!

That is nice! Yes! 

I'll be good if I can just get the Face with an extension to the HU!

I'm jealous.

D.


----------



## BigRed

derickveliz said:


> Wow!
> 
> 
> 
> That is nice! Yes!
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be good if I can just get the Face with an extension to the HU!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> D.



That unit is just the face and it controls the system. No CD player it's offered outside of the us


----------



## gfbl

i know ive seen it on this thread but search yielded too many results for usb. Whats the largest sized usb in terms of memory will the deh-01 accomadate?Thanks.


----------



## 82801BA

gfbl said:


> i know ive seen it on this thread but search yielded too many results for usb. Whats the largest sized usb in terms of memory will the deh-01 accomadate?Thanks.


I've tried 64GB with FAT32 on P99RS but USB will drop and throw an error-19 once in a while and requires a complete shut down. So I say 32GB is the safest.


----------



## gfbl

ahh thanks a mil, two 32gb usbs should be more than adequate then


----------



## skyven

dk2020 said:


> Can anyone confirm that iPod or iPhone can playback gapless through the DEX-P99RS? Both Apple Lossless and lossy MP3 and AAC?
> 
> What about files stored on USB? I assume MP3 and AAC will not play gaplessly. But WAV?


P99rs does play gapless track mp3,m4a, other supported format with my iphone5s ios 7.1.1

Cheers


----------



## skyven

Does any body here experience p99rs alone or p99rs with external arc ps8 processor differences of Stage wide/height/depth , separation, tonality, imaging, resolution, layering, etc improvement or loosing in term of sound quality.

Thanks.


----------



## narvarr

skyven said:


> Does any body here experience p99rs alone or p99rs with external arc ps8 processor differences of Stage wide/height/depth , separation, tonality, imaging, resolution, layering, etc improvement or loosing in term of sound quality.
> 
> Thanks.


Are you looking to use the P99 with the PS8 or are you looking to replace the P99 with the PS8?

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## skyven

narvarr said:


> Are you looking to use the P99 with the PS8 or are you looking to replace the P99 with the PS8?
> 
> Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


I mention Using p99 hu + arc ps8 vs only p99 in term sound quality diff


----------



## narvarr

skyven said:


> I mention Using p99 hu + arc ps8 vs only p99 in term sound quality diff


The P99 is probably one of the best transports out there right now. Paired up with a great external processor like the PS8 would be a killer setup. However, there are some PS8's out there with floor noise issues so be careful in that regard. I myself run the P01(JDM P99) with a Helix processor and couldn't see myself changing from that combo.

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## HardCoreDore

Sorry I haven't read through this entire thread, but I have a quick question. I've never been a big fan of Pioneer HU's but this one may sway me. 

Has anyone who is using one of these high-end Pioneer units, used an Eclipse CD7000/7200? How does the signal processing compare. I'm pretty happy with my CD7000, but I could be swayed.


----------



## casey

on the 99, is there any way to recall a TA setting? I did not mess with the one I had on my tune, but went to "initial" and started messing with it, and it basically replaced my alignment that I did set up. I am dumb and did not write down my settings.


----------



## gfbl

so i bought a deh-01 from a guy on the forum but it didnt have the piece to connect the rca's? he failed to mention that! any ideas where i can get it? Thanks a mil


----------



## sszyma

I actually have a spare I would be willing to sell. PM me.


----------



## abusiveDAD

another option
PacParts: 950FGS8972


----------



## gfbl

thanks, sent a pm to sszyma so waiting to hear from him


----------



## gfbl

PIONEER DEH-P85BT / DEX-P99R ETC 16 PIN - NEW WIRING - BLACK - HIGH SPEC LOOM

is this the same thing?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Just heard a rumor that Pioneer is discontinuing all things Stage 4 which would include the P99RS. Anyone else heard this?


----------



## MB2008LTZ

Architect7 said:


> Just heard a rumor that Pioneer is discontinuing all things Stage 4 which would include the P99RS. Anyone else heard this?


There may be some "truth" in that rumor.....

Crutchfield.com Specials

Free mids with comp purchase


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I should add that the rumor was from a dealer I was talking to this morning...scary! The last of the flagship SQ headunits


----------



## avanti1960

beehiveramesh said:


> I have a situation: When I turn up the volume, the volume decreases and I have turn it up several times to bring the volume up. However, this function works fine with a remote. Is this the "intermittently" not working situation that you face ?


This happens to me periodically. It did go away on its own and I haven't found a need to track down the issue. Try alcohol on the connectors.


----------



## avanti1960

HardCoreDore said:


> Sorry I haven't read through this entire thread, but I have a quick question. I've never been a big fan of Pioneer HU's but this one may sway me.
> 
> Has anyone who is using one of these high-end Pioneer units, used an Eclipse CD7000/7200? How does the signal processing compare. I'm pretty happy with my CD7000, but I could be swayed.


I cannot compare directly to the eclipse but pretty much everyday when I am listening to my system I honestly cannot imagine it sounding any better- any clearer, any more dynamic, etc. 
With the right installation, speakers, deadening, speaker position, amplifiers and tuning, this unit will not be the bottleneck or weakest link for sound quality. 
It honestly sounds like a multi thousand dollar install should.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

HardCoreDore said:


> Sorry I haven't read through this entire thread, but I have a quick question. I've never been a big fan of Pioneer HU's but this one may sway me.
> 
> Has anyone who is using one of these high-end Pioneer units, used an Eclipse CD7000/7200? How does the signal processing compare. I'm pretty happy with my CD7000, but I could be swayed.


I switched to the P99RS from an Eclipse CD7200 MKII. My CD7200 was modded though with upgraded caps/opamps. I like the P99RS for its auto-calibration, it saved me a ton of time and was pretty darn accurate once I dialed in crossover slopes and mic position correctly. The P99RS USB responsiveness is the fastest I've ever used, similar to the 80PRS which is a huge benefit for me since I use thumb drives for their convenience.

As for sound, the P99RS and the modded Eclipse are very similar but that probably won't help you much. I do love the sound of my P99RS and I don't really see a need to ever upgrade unless someone happens to give me an ODR combo.


----------



## MB2008LTZ

Should I buy STAGE 4 components (with mid range) ?
YES or NO?


----------



## jodyz

Hmm. I was going to put my 99RS up for sale, but now I think I'll hold on to it. I wonder what will come out next that is comparable.


----------



## gfbl

anyone got a rca harness? pm me with price please before i go to pioneer. Thanks


----------



## nicad

Just wondering how people have found the ease of use while driving on this unit and how well the phone module that Pioneer sells works with it? I need hands free in my car and don't enjoy grasping with fiddly buttons while driving.


----------



## hykhleif

i am running the p99 as a transport with helix cdsp. and I got a friend who eq the helix for me after hours of work. Now I am thinking if I can use TA in p99 to get the best TA or is that a bad idea


----------



## Hanatsu

No point really. I'll help you later, been working so much lately


----------



## hykhleif

Hanatsu said:


> No point really. I'll help you later, been working so much lately


by the way everyone hanatsu is the one who with all his kindness helped me out in making my system from sounding like trash to greatness, he is the best person I met throughout my whole journey of getting my system to what is now.

I wish I had a fraction of his knowledge


----------



## Tnutt19

Does anyone know when the P99 is suppose to be discontinued?


----------



## pjc

Tnutt19 said:


> Does anyone know when the P99 is suppose to be discontinued?


Yesterday was the last day it was ever going to be sold. If you didn't get it order by yesterday you will never have a chance to own one. I tease I tease. 

My old boss swears it will still be around. But not the rest of the line.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

So every day I continue to fall deeper in love with this HU. At 3am this morning I had an epiphany to attach my iPad 2 to my P99RS and attempt to play Spotify. Not only does the P99RS act as the Spotify DAC, you can skip songs and display artist/title with the P99RS. Amazing!!! Apologies if this was already mentioned, I haven't had a chance to review all 24 pages of this thread yet


----------



## 77'cj7

Anyone tried an iphone 6 with the p99 yet? I'm debating between a 5s and a 6.


----------



## jriggs

Architect7 said:


> So every day I continue to fall deeper in love with this HU. At 3am this morning I had an epiphany to attach my iPad 2 to my P99RS and attempt to play Spotify. Not only does the P99RS act as the Spotify DAC, you can skip songs and display artist/title with the P99RS. Amazing!!! Apologies if this was already mentioned, I haven't had a chance to review all 24 pages of this thread yet



Just tried this and it's friggin' awesome. Thanks for the post!


----------



## quality_sound

77'cj7 said:


> Anyone tried an iphone 6 with the p99 yet? I'm debating between a 5s and a 6.


It'll work fine. Only radios with App Mode were affected by the change. Since the P99 only accesses the iPod portion of the phone, nothing changed.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

jriggs said:


> Just tried this and it's friggin' awesome. Thanks for the post!


Right?! I've discovered more new music this week than the past 12 months combined. And it's only Tuesday! MIND BLOWN!!!


----------



## WestCo

Tnutt19 said:


> Does anyone know when the P99 is suppose to be discontinued?


Apparently most of Pioneer's A/V lines are going to be merged with Onkyo; I am assuming that they wont be in the CA game for much longer.


----------



## narvarr

Actually, they stated that they are getting out of AV/DJ equipment market to focus more on car audio and mobile entertainment. 

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


----------



## el_bob-o

I concur with Narvarr, from everything I've read it seems like their car audio division is thriving.


----------



## NetkoGTS

Just ordered my P99RS... on its way to my door!

As a side note... I am wondering how the iPhone 6 will sound once Apple unleashes the HD Audio content. I have heard HD Audio tracks and was mind blown.


----------



## Hanatsu

What's HD Audio? 24/96? I'm pretty much happy with mp3s unless I'm demoing or something xD


----------



## NetkoGTS

Hanatsu said:


> What's HD Audio? 24/96? I'm pretty much happy with mp3s unless I'm demoing or something xD



High-resolution audio guide

and info on high rez audio for iPhone 6:
Audio Testing Confirms iPhone 6 Not Yet Capable of Direct HD Audio Playback - Mac Rumors


----------



## quality_sound

NetkoGTS said:


> High-resolution audio guide
> 
> and info on high rez audio for iPhone 6:
> Audio Testing Confirms iPhone 6 Not Yet Capable of Direct HD Audio Playback - Mac Rumors


Is that the article that says you can use the Onkyo HD Player app? I'm going to try it with my 6 Plus and iPad. Mine are higher resolution than that, but I'll downsample some tracks to try.


----------



## Hanatsu

Sceptical that the P99 will accept a 24/96 audio stream. Furthermore, the benefits might not be that great using 2ch 24/96. With some content it may actually be theoretically worse than 16/44,1 due to IMD induced out of the audible passband. With thst said, some "HD" recordings are differently mastered and sound better than the CD counterpart. I'd just compress those recordings to mp3 using v1 VBR lame. Can't hear any difference anyway, the mastering is far more important than the digital compression (at least with bitrates above ~250kBit/s, using lossy codecs)


----------



## mrpeabody

Hanatsu said:


> Sceptical that the P99 will accept a 24/96 audio stream.


Yup, it won't.



Hanatsu said:


> With thst said, some "HD" recordings are differently mastered and sound better than the CD counterpart. I'd just compress those recordings to mp3 using v1 VBR lame. Can't hear any difference anyway, *the mastering is far more important than the digital compression* (at least with bitrates above ~250kBit/s, using lossy codecs)


This has been my experience as well.


----------



## quality_sound

Hanatsu said:


> Sceptical that the P99 will accept a 24/96 audio stream. Furthermore, the benefits might not be that great using 2ch 24/96. With some content it may actually be theoretically worse than 16/44,1 due to IMD induced out of the audible passband. With thst said, some "HD" recordings are differently mastered and sound better than the CD counterpart. I'd just compress those recordings to mp3 using v1 VBR lame. Can't hear any difference anyway, the mastering is far more important than the digital compression (at least with bitrates above ~250kBit/s, using lossy codecs)


All of my high definition tracks sound noticeably better than their CD counterparts. Granted, I don't have a ton of the same tracks in both formats to compare but those that I do I can hear a pretty drastic difference.


----------



## piyush7243

Hanatsu said:


> Sceptical that the P99 will accept a 24/96 audio stream. Furthermore, the benefits might not be that great using 2ch 24/96. With some content it may actually be theoretically worse than 16/44,1 due to IMD induced out of the audible passband. With thst said, some "HD" recordings are differently mastered and sound better than the CD counterpart. I'd just compress those recordings to mp3 using v1 VBR lame. Can't hear any difference anyway, the mastering is far more important than the digital compression (at least with bitrates above ~250kBit/s, using lossy codecs)


Tried with multiple combination. Max is 16 bit 48kHz. That's it. Nothing more

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## Luke/Peaandham

Is there a way with the P99 that I can set my crossover points, t/a and then just use the mic to do the auto eq without changing my crossover points or t/a?

If so how?


----------



## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> Can't hear any difference anyway, the mastering is far more important than the digital compression (at least with bitrates above ~250kBit/s, using lossy codecs)


I've tried burning @ 320 and then comparing against the original CD. The difference is evident 9/10 times. With some material eg U2 or Coldplay (music not known for recording quality) the difference is less but still evident. With other material like Cassandra Wilson, Diana Krall, Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Donald Fagen etc (music that is well recorded), the difference is night and day. Both in the car and on the 2ch at home. 

The top end harmonics that get filtered in the compression, changes the timbre of instruments and vocals. The compressed material sounds tinny and thin. It's not full bodied like the original. YMMV


----------



## Hanatsu

Then you have better hearing than me. I can't hear anything beyond 16k.


----------



## Hanatsu

And I don't listen to such material either. Mostly metal and subgenres of electronic music^^


----------



## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> Then you have better hearing than me. I can't hear anything beyond 16k.


It's definitely not that. Do you hear the difference on a 2ch at home? I''m sure even metal and electronic will have well recorded material


----------



## Hanatsu

No. But I can hear very small amounts og non-linear distortion in subs so I guess I'm weird then


----------



## SkizeR

sqnut said:


> It's definitely not that. Do you hear the difference on a 2ch at home? I''m sure even metal and electronic will have well recorded material


There's some well recorded metal out there, but it is rare


----------



## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> I can't hear anything beyond 16k.


Stop listening to metal and electronic at un-Godly volumes. Change the pattern and the 16K+ will come back after a while......I'm not kidding. The body heals itself much faster at your age than mine.

It's not about the harmonics in the 10+ range but the effect of those harmonics on the fundamentals in the mid range. It's as if the sound is hollow.


----------



## SkizeR

sqnut said:


> Stop listening to metal and electronic at un-Godly volumes. Change the pattern and the 16K+ will come back after a while......I'm not kidding. The body heals itself much faster at your age than mine.
> 
> It's not about the harmonics in the 10+ range but the effect of those harmonics on the fundamentals in the mid range. It's as if the sound is hollow.


Actually hearing loss isn't reversible


----------



## Hanatsu

Got three different tinnitus sounds, I hear them when it's quiet. It's from work, not from concerts or from listening to too high volume. Nowadays I'm careful about listening at too high SPL. Having said that, I have much experience with critical listening. I can hear very subtle deviations in other areas but I can't simply hear any difference between mp3 320k/lossless in headphones, my home audio system or in the car. I know Andy Wehmeyer agree with me xD


----------



## sqnut

SkizeR said:


> Actually hearing loss isn't reversible


Temp impairment is, but yeah hearing loss isn't.


----------



## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> I can hear very subtle deviations in other areas but I can't simply hear any difference between mp3 320k/lossless in headphones, my home audio system or in the car. I know Andy Wehmeyer agree with me xD


:shrug:.......agree to disagree :beerchug:


----------



## Hanatsu

sqnut said:


> :shrug:.......agree to disagree :beerchug:


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1800329-post9.html

It's strange cause it's usually the HF material that gets distorted in lower bitrates.

Do a A/B/X digital test using the plugin in foobar2000. I can send you a few samples of music I listen to. I use dBpoweramp v15 with the newest lame version to encode with.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Luke/Peaandham said:


> Is there a way with the P99 that I can set my crossover points, t/a and then just use the mic to do the auto eq without changing my crossover points or t/a?
> 
> If so how?


Yes regarding crossover, set it to "manual" in the auto calibration process.

You can modify TA after but not before auto calibration.


----------



## NetkoGTS

piyush7243 said:


> Tried with multiple combination. Max is 16 bit 48kHz. That's it. Nothing more
> 
> Sent from Oppo Find 7


Correct... Wouldn't the iPhone do all the processing and transport it via USB just like if you were playing back regular iTunes?

I think the processing only applies to file formats that are direct fed.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

It is very well documented that the P99RS acts as DAC for iOS devices, same as for USB storage devices. What "processing" are you guys referring to?


----------



## piyush7243

IPod dac is bypassed,when connected to p99.

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## Hanatsu

USB is digital... the iPod's DAC is always bypassed.


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

There was a hiss and distortion in the vocals and I couldn't figure out what it was,after reading a lot I remembered I used to get a lot of the error 19 on my flash drive.I tried the cd source in order to see if the hiss was there or not,turned out that there was no problem on the CD but only on the USB. I use a Corsair Flash Voyager 16 gb flash drive.After looking into a lot of things like my gain structure,RCAs etc I finally gave this a shot by backing up the Music on my hard drive and using the following method to flash my drive.

Disk - Clean and Clean All with Diskpart Command - Windows 7 Help Forums

I'm guessing the hidden bad sectors on the disk contributed to this mess which meant the unit was having a hard time accessing all the data,it used to not play some songs too.With this method it rewrites everything in zeros so it's kinda like having a clean slate and then you have a partition that you can format.
Note: When you're done with the cleanup use the HP format tool and don't use the quick format option,use the other to format the drive and FAT 32 as the format with default allocation size.

HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com


----------



## piyush7243

CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> There was a hiss and distortion in the vocals and I couldn't figure out what it was,after reading a lot I remembered I used to get a lot of the error 19 on my flash drive.I tried the cd source in order to see if the hiss was there or not,turned out that there was no problem on the CD but only on the USB. I use a Corsair Flash Voyager 16 gb flash drive.After looking into a lot of things like my gain structure,RCAs etc I finally gave this a shot by backing up the Music on my hard drive and using the following method to flash my drive.
> 
> Disk - Clean and Clean All with Diskpart Command - Windows 7 Help Forums
> 
> I'm guessing the hidden bad sectors on the disk contributed to this mess which meant the unit was having a hard time accessing all the data,it used to not play some songs too.With this method it rewrites everything in zeros so it's kinda like having a clean slate and then you have a partition that you can format.
> Note: When you're done with the cleanup use the HP format tool and don't use the quick format option,use the other to format the drive and FAT 32 as the format with default allocation size.
> 
> HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com


it's all digital reading so I doubt it can cause any issues. In a storage unit, The sector is either read or fails.

Sent from Oppo Find 7


----------



## hykhleif

guys I know this has been all over the thread and I read and I am starting to get confused as to what to do with autotune

I have some questions:

1- shall I set the crossovers and slopes for the speakers before doing auto tune ( auto eq+ auto TA )
2- shall I sit in the car when I do the auto tune
3- can someone again summarize the best practices for auto tune
4- can someone for a 3 way speakers system recommend the best crossovers and slopes for subs, lows, mids, highs ( mid + tweeters mounted on dash ), and woofers are in the door panels

I have the following speakers

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs )
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters 

my initial auto tune, was a little dull resulting in a sound that its bass and subs was not much present, and no details or warmth or richness. I think the vocals were shouty too and feels plastic. the auto TA gave me a strange result for the distance of the woofers, it gave me that the right woofer is closer to me than the left woofer which of course is not, as for the rest of the speakers the auto TA gave I think logical distance results.



I have the following amps:

1- audioson lrx 4.1 connected to it the tweeters and mids
2- audison lrx 2.9 connected to it the woofers
3- audison lrx 1.1 connected to it the subs


----------



## claydo

Auto tune is a fairly useless feature, imho. You'll have much better results tuning manually......As far as recommended crossover points I can give you a starting point, but you'll have to adjust to yer install/liking......try 63 hz between the subs and midbass, 250 hz between midbass and mids, and 4 kHz between mids and tweets. These are just initial recommendations, and should be treated as such, experimentation is yer friend........


----------



## Luke/Peaandham

Unless someone can answer my previous question autotune will set the eq curve, xover points, levels and T/A, so you will be adjusting on the autotune and thats it, however with a change in the xover points the EQ will need to be changed too.

My basic xover points are

Sub -63hz
Midbass 63-315hz
Midrange 315hz-4k
Tweeter 4k-20k full pass.

I start with 12db slopes on the lot.


----------



## hykhleif

Luke/Peaandham said:


> Unless someone can answer my previous question autotune will set the eq curve, xover points, levels and T/A, so you will be adjusting on the autotune and thats it, however with a change in the xover points the EQ will need to be changed too.
> 
> My basic xover points are
> 
> Sub -63hz
> Midbass 63-315hz
> Midrange 315hz-4k
> Tweeter 4k-20k full pass.
> 
> I start with 12db slopes on the lot.


so you must dial in the crossover and slopes before auto tune??

do any of you use loudness on after you tune, as really without loudness on the music sounds flat, no great bass.

with loudness on bass is great, but vocals and highs seems weird sounding, as if it becomes more shouty.

Does anyone also use SLA


----------



## Luke/Peaandham

hykhleif said:


> so you must dial in the crossover and slopes before auto tune??
> 
> do any of you use loudness on after you tune, as really without loudness on the music sounds flat, no great bass.
> 
> with loudness on bass is great, but vocals and highs seems weird sounding, as if it becomes more shouty.
> 
> Does anyone also use SLA


No point doing an xovers or slopes as autotune will adjust it anyway, id like to be able to do an auto eq only with my slopes and points but I havent found how to, so I dont think you can. My suggestions for xovers points were if you either adjusted the auto eq to new points or did a full manual tune.

I dont use loudness however with the auto eq is boosts alot of the low end for me.

*Anyone with a 3 way + sub install who has used autotune* my p99 sets my points to

Subbass full - 63hz
Midbass 63hz - 1.6khz
Midrange 1.6khz - 8k
Tweeter 8k-full

Now my midbass is a peerless SLS 8 which has terrible midrange so im curious as to whether that is a bog stock setting for all 3 + sub autotunes?


----------



## Hanatsu

If you don't set crossovers with the p99 autotune it will use "standard" settings for each channel. It won't optimize anything at all. Since the P99 don't average the reading it can be a hit or miss regarding the EQ setting. In this case I wouldn't sit in the car since it will probably not resolve T/A setting properly. 

The Pioneer's autotune doesn't work good imo. It's simply too crude. Alpine's IMPRINT is the best I've tried, at least it got the T/A right. The main issue is that these auto tunes tend to boost dips that can't be EQed and create a whole lot of distortion in the process - that and the lack of a spatial averaging algorithm (Pioneer). To provide the best crossover settings I need gated FR and distortion plots taken on a test baffle. The lowpass of a driver is normally limited by the size of the driver - larger driver = lower LPF to avoid beaming in the xover region.

SLA is only a level adjuster for different sources. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

For a 3" I'd probably use 315Hz as HPF and 3150Hz as LPF if I were limited to the P99, 24dB/oct acoustic slopes everywhere. Mid in the 6,5-7" range can probably be crossed around 63Hz HPF. Depends on how good the drivers are. No experience with HAT.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## southpawskater

hykhleif said:


> guys I know this has been all over the thread and I read and I am starting to get confused as to what to do with autotune
> 
> I have some questions:
> 
> 1- shall I set the crossovers and slopes for the speakers before doing auto tune ( auto eq+ auto TA )
> 2- shall I sit in the car when I do the auto tune
> 3- can someone again summarize the best practices for auto tune
> 4- can someone for a 3 way speakers system recommend the best crossovers and slopes for subs, lows, mids, highs ( mid + tweeters mounted on dash ), and woofers are in the door panels
> 
> I have the following speakers
> 
> 1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs )
> 2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers
> 3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids
> 4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters
> 
> my initial auto tune, was a little dull resulting in a sound that its bass and subs was not much present, and no details or warmth or richness. I think the vocals were shouty too and feels plastic. the auto TA gave me a strange result for the distance of the woofers, it gave me that the right woofer is closer to me than the left woofer which of course is not, as for the rest of the speakers the auto TA gave I think logical distance results.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the following amps:
> 
> 1- audioson lrx 4.1 connected to it the tweeters and mids
> 2- audison lrx 2.9 connected to it the woofers
> 3- audison lrx 1.1 connected to it the subs



Id start with this:

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs ) LPF 50Hz 24 DB
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers HPF 50Hz 24 DB LPF 500Hz 24DB
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids HPF 500Hz 24 DB LPF 10k 24 DB
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters HPF 10k 24DB full pass 

You will probably end up adjusting slopes, x-over points, and possibly adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids but this will at least get you close and be safe for tweaking. 

You want to get as much of the midrange playing through the L3s to get the stage up on the dash and not down in the doors.

I've tried the P99 auto tune and its pretty horrible, I would recommend getting comfortable, grabbing a note pad and reading this thread from ErinH.
Pretty much everything you need is covered in here.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ers/163914-essentials-sound-quality-imho.html


----------



## hykhleif

southpawskater said:


> Id start with this:
> 
> 1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs ) LPF 50Hz 24 DB
> 2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers HPF 50Hz 24 DB LPF 500Hz 24DB
> 3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids HPF 500Hz 24 DB LPF 10k 24 DB
> 4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters HPF 10k 24DB full pass
> 
> You will probably end up adjusting slopes, x-over points, and possibly adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids but this will at least get you close and be safe for tweaking.
> 
> You want to get as much of the midrange playing through the L3s to get the stage up on the dash and not down in the doors.
> 
> I've tried the P99 auto tune and its pretty horrible, I would recommend getting comfortable, grabbing a note pad and reading this thread from ErinH.
> Pretty much everything you need is covered in here.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ers/163914-essentials-sound-quality-imho.html


can you please explain this sentence to me 

(adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids )

can you give how to do this based on the crossovers u mentioned above, i know it will be just a theoretical but so I can know what is meant by it exactly.

I will read the link you provided also


----------



## hykhleif

Hanatsu said:


> If you don't set crossovers with the p99 autotune it will use "standard" settings for each channel. It won't optimize anything at all. Since the P99 don't average the reading it can be a hit or miss regarding the EQ setting. In this case I wouldn't sit in the car since it will probably not resolve T/A setting properly.
> 
> The Pioneer's autotune doesn't work good imo. It's simply too crude. Alpine's IMPRINT is the best I've tried, at least it got the T/A right. The main issue is that these auto tunes tend to boost dips that can't be EQed and create a whole lot of distortion in the process - that and the lack of a spatial averaging algorithm (Pioneer). To provide the best crossover settings I need gated FR and distortion plots taken on a test baffle. The lowpass of a driver is normally limited by the size of the driver - larger driver = lower LPF to avoid beaming in the xover region.
> 
> SLA is only a level adjuster for different sources.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


thanks it seems i will try my best to get best the sound out of the p99 without the helix c dsp, as its way too complicated for me 

I noticed that with only the p99 I hear the volume louder and more presence or dynamics than with the helix at the same volume level in p99.

my main problem is the vocals in both setup i don't know why i get the feeling as they are not present in a full warm presence. Bass in p99 was easy to fix but its the vocals that are driving me crazy, maybe its the hybrid audio speakers that are the issue


----------



## Hanatsu

southpawskater said:


> Id start with this:
> 
> 1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs ) LPF 50Hz 24 DB
> 2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers HPF 50Hz 24 DB LPF 500Hz 24DB
> 3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids HPF 500Hz 24 DB LPF 10k 24 DB
> 4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters HPF 10k 24DB full pass
> 
> You will probably end up adjusting slopes, x-over points, and possibly adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids but this will at least get you close and be safe for tweaking.
> 
> You want to get as much of the midrange playing through the L3s to get the stage up on the dash and not down in the doors.
> 
> I've tried the P99 auto tune and its pretty horrible, I would recommend getting comfortable, grabbing a note pad and reading this thread from ErinH.
> Pretty much everything you need is covered in here.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ers/163914-essentials-sound-quality-imho.html


10kHz? Not a good idea.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## quality_sound

Neither is a 50Hz LPF on a sub that will play cleanly over 100Hz.


----------



## 92MR2T

Hi, sense this thread is still so active I thought it would be a good place to get some advice. Just installed a dex-p99rs head unit in my car and am loving everything about it except for one thing. All my low end subwoofer response is practically gone after switching to this HU, I'm talking about 20-40hz stuff. With my old cheap JVC deck everything but the low end bass sounded bad, but that JVC made my single sealed 10" sound like 2 vented 12's!! I've messed with every setting possible on the Pioneer and amp and no matter what the bass always sounds lacking.

I wanted to keep this short so if you want my full system details they will be posted up later.


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## southpawskater

Hanatsu said:


> 10kHz? Not a good idea.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


I'm running the same Hybrid drivers he has and also running a P99, those tweeters can take it and sound really good doing it. Again as I noted there will definitely be adjustments needed to blend it all together this is a good starting point.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neither is a 50Hz LPF on a sub that will play cleanly over 100Hz. 

Sure it can, but the problem is the higher up you run the sub the more localized it gets to the rear of the car, admittedly I am unfamiliar with his mid-bass drivers and subs, but with my L6s and IDmax (which will also play cleanly to over 100Hz) this was the best compromise to get strong punchy sub bass without drawing the stage to the back.


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## southpawskater

hykhleif said:


> can you please explain this sentence to me
> 
> (adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids )
> 
> can you give how to do this based on the crossovers u mentioned above, i know it will be just a theoretical but so I can know what is meant by it exactly.
> 
> I will read the link you provided also



So I ran my subs to 50hz then my mid-basses don't kick in until 63hz on a 24Db slope, my mid-basses roll off at 316hz but the mids don't start until 500hz. I'm just saying you don't have to cross all of the drivers at the same point as the previous or next driver in the system, sometimes its beneficial to leave a gap in between drivers as the sound above or below the x-over point will still play albeit attenuated by whatever slope you have set.


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## Hanatsu

It's not the tweeter. It's the 10kHz lowpass on the mid. Everything from 4-5kHz and up will be pretty much directional as the driver will start to lose dispersion above 3,5kHz due to its size. You also risk running the driver through breakup nodes and crap (if there are any).

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


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## Hanatsu

southpawskater said:


> So I ran my subs to 50hz then my mid-basses don't kick in until 63hz on a 24Db slope, my mid-basses roll off at 316hz but the mids don't start until 500hz. I'm just saying you don't have to cross all of the drivers at the same point as the previous or next driver in the system, sometimes its beneficial to leave a gap in between drivers as the sound above or below the x-over point will still play albeit attenuated by whatever slope you have set.


Yes but we really need to measure before knowing. The crossover settings you set and the "acoustic crossovers" - (the ones you measure) are almost never the same. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


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## southpawskater

Hanatsu said:


> It's not the tweeter. It's the 10kHz lowpass on the mid. Everything from 4-5kHz and up will be pretty much directional as the driver will start to lose dispersion above 3,5kHz due to its size. You also risk running the driver through breakup nodes and crap (if there are any).
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


That L3 he's using can and will run full range 500hz and up all day with no problem at all, also keep in mind this is a phase plug driver and he has them installed in his pillars so dependent on aiming, being slightly directional becomes less of an issue.


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## southpawskater

Hanatsu said:


> Yes but we really need to measure before knowing. The crossover settings you set and the "acoustic crossovers" - (the ones you measure) are almost never the same.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


Agreed, as I stated, a good starting point, adjust as necessary...


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## Hanatsu

southpawskater said:


> That L3 he's using can and will run full range 500hz and up all day with no problem at all, also keep in mind this is a phase plug driver and he has them installed in his pillars so dependent on aiming, being slightly directional becomes less of an issue.


Yeah... I'm sure they can be run fullrange and phase plug or not they will be highly directional at 10kHz, normally we want to cross in a region where the power response is close or equal to the on-axis FR so we can EQ the reflections together with the direct sound. Any break up node or irregular rolloff beyond the beaming point will result in a system response that might be hard to tune correctly as "phantom sound sources" will have a different FR. My experience tells me its better to cross a 3" in the 3-5kHz region but you might get great results with a higher LP as well with some experimentation with aiming etc.. 

For the record, I've used fullrange speakers in two cars but adding a tweeter is always an improvement in the end.


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## hykhleif

guys i have a question, it seems no matter what i try using a 3 way speaker setup i am not happy, wether with the p99 alone, or when used as a transport to helix c dsp.

it seems me and my ears just don't like 3 ways set up, now i was wondering can i go active with the p99 with only 2 way so that i remove the mids and just keep the woofers and tweeters

my speakers are:

1- hertz mille mlk2 woofers
2- hybrid audio legatia l3 mids ( i will remove those )
3- hybrid audio legatia l1 Pro tweeters

if i go 2 way how can i do auto tune ? is that possible


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## 2010hummerguy

I am using the P99 for 3-way and it works quite well. The one thing about using the P99 for 3-way that is not user friendly is that one of the mid outputs is fixed so you must deactivate the other mid output in order for auto-tune to run correctly. I can't remember off the top of my head if mid high or mid low is fixed, I'll take a look at mine once I drive into work today.


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## Hanatsu

I'm quite the opposite. 95% of the systems I've heard in cars, 3-way front sound better. It's not necessarily the 3-way itself but rather the placement of the midrange drivers. To get 2-way to sound right to me, it requires large modifications to many of the cars available on the market. I firmly believe that midrange low in doors or in kicks in modern cars (with large center consoles) are recipes to disaster regarding focus and staging in the midrange. A good 2-way front got large drivers (6" or bigger) placed high in doors or or in the dash. Dash mounting often reduces stage width over sail/door mounting. 

I've said this before but if a system is hard to tune, then it's VERY likely install related issues (often reflection issues). Relocating drivers is unfortunately the only cure for these issues. Using 2-way front will not improve this if you have less than optimal locations for the drivers. 

I can to some extent predict how the system gonna sound by looking at measurements, if I know how the drivers are mounted, the size of the "room" and relative positions to the listener/speakers and how the drivers characteristics look like (polar response being very important). 

hyhk, can you mail me the RoomEQ data file (*.mdat) for two measurements. Measure left side (all speakers) + sub with right side muted. Then right side+sub (left side muted). I'll take a look again and I'll try figure out what could be the issue.


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## Hanatsu

hykhleif said:


> if i go 2 way how can i do auto tune ? is that possible


Yes. That's possible.


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## hykhleif

Hanatsu, man please please know that i am so speechless as you went with me so many extra miles and tried so so so much to help me, and I am so ashamed to ask for more help as I know no one ever would do such a thing for me, but you did.

I totally would agree changing the driver location if it was my car, but it is not my car so I still need to put the mids and tweeters on the dash.

One thing is that both mids and tweeters are put in a plastic enclosure that belonged to my focal krx3, and I am using interconnects so I cam remove the mids and tweeters when I go back home to avoid getting them stolen.

I will take pictures of the interconnects and the enclosure and location of the mids and tweeters.

Now with the helix c dsp something is not right which is I don't feel the vocals and music filling the car in an enjoyable way, its more to the low side of music. Also the bass does not hit hard. And sometimes gets boomy i don't know if that is because of the woofers or the subs.

Now with just the p99 and after auto tune I feel more music is present dynamically and fills the cabin much more at the same volume than with the helix. BUT and a Big but the sound is somewhat not warm and is plasticy or and some details are lost, and I had to raise the sub level after autune from -13 to + 3 in the crossover settings in the p99.

I was thinking maybe I should start from scratch by doing it step by step following this procedure:

1- set the levels on all amps correctly, how to do that ?
2- make measurements using room eq- need help again in setting the mic, I am thinking this time to use my macbook pro instead of the crapy windows- can you help in initail setting room eq to use for my mic
3- decide then wether to stick with helix or just p99

I know it is a big big favour to ask again, but this will be my last and I promise


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## 2010hummerguy

I had to raise my sub +6db with my P99 to get it to where I want it after autotune. That's a pretty well known issue with the P99, it tends to attenuate the sub to home audio levels, not what most prefer in a automotive environment.


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## Hanatsu

hykhleif said:


> One thing is that both mids and tweeters are put in a plastic enclosure that belonged to my focal krx3, and I am using interconnects so I cam remove the mids and tweeters when I go back home to avoid getting them stolen.
> 
> I will take pictures of the interconnects and the enclosure and location of the mids and tweeters.
> 
> Now with the helix c dsp something is not right which is I don't feel the vocals and music filling the car in an enjoyable way, its more to the low side of music. Also the bass does not hit hard. And sometimes gets boomy i don't know if that is because of the woofers or the subs.
> 
> Now with just the p99 and after auto tune I feel more music is present dynamically and fills the cabin much more at the same volume than with the helix. BUT and a Big but the sound is somewhat not warm and is plasticy or and some details are lost, and I had to raise the sub level after autune from -13 to + 3 in the crossover settings in the p99.
> 
> I was thinking maybe I should start from scratch by doing it step by step following this procedure:
> 
> 1- set the levels on all amps correctly, how to do that ?
> 2- make measurements using room eq- need help again in setting the mic, I am thinking this time to use my macbook pro instead of the crapy windows- can you help in initail setting room eq to use for my mic
> 3- decide then wether to stick with helix or just p99
> 
> I know it is a big big favour to ask again, but this will be my last and I promise


1. Well, I assume you mean gains. Easiest way is (imo) to set volume to 60/62 on your P99, play a -10dBFS Sine tone and turn up gains till you hear audible distortion. To do it "properly" you need an O-scope to find the point where the amp clips. The P99 doesn't clip at any volume or settings (as far I know). Base output on your mids, for midbass drivers a 1kHz tone can be used, when that's done just level the subs, midranges and tweeters to the same as the mids around the each driver's intended crossover points (that you can do at lower volume, measure it in RoomEQ and adjust accordingly). You can fine tune levels for each channel in either the P99 or the Helix, but you generally want to feed the DSP/amps with as strong signal as possible to increase SNR, if noise is of no issue you can just lower the output for each channel in the P99. This should be done before EQing.

2. Sure

3. We can try tuning by simply use the P99, definitely easier at least. (you can ship the c-dsp to me if you don't want it lol )


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## Luke/Peaandham

Architect7 said:


> I am using the P99 for 3-way and it works quite well. The one thing about using the P99 for 3-way that is not user friendly is that one of the mid outputs is fixed so you must deactivate the other mid output in order for auto-tune to run correctly. I can't remember off the top of my head if mid high or mid low is fixed, I'll take a look at mine once I drive into work today.


How do you deactivate it? Because I tried Auto Tuning 2way + Sub active install and it kept saying mid band error because it couldnt hear anything from my 3" midrange which I wanted to disconnect.


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## piyush7243

Luke/Peaandham said:


> How do you deactivate it? Because I tried Auto Tuning 2way + Sub active install and it kept saying mid band error because it couldnt hear anything from my 3" midrange which I wanted to disconnect.


Disconnect the rca connected to mid rca on the hu


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## Luke/Peaandham

Ah see I only disconnected them at the amp end.


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## 2010hummerguy

piyush7243 said:


> Disconnect the rca connected to mid rca on the hu


Whoa wait what? No, you must disable the non-fixed mid channel in the initial setup menu. Otherwise the P99 will continue to attempt to calibrate those channels and after hearing nothing returned from the disconnected speakers it will end the auto-calibration with an error message.


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## narvarr

Read the manual, it states that the "mid" output must always be connected if you plan to use auto tune feature. Turn off the "low" output in the head unit and use the "high" on tweeters, "mid" on midwoofer and "sub" on the subwoofer. 

Sent from my C6806 using Tapatalk


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## hykhleif

I removed the mids so I am running 2 way, and did autotune and it went ok

observations between 3 way and 2 way

well in 2 way I found the sound more better to my ears, I don't know why I always prefer to go back to 2 ways than 3 ways, so now all I need to do is compare auto tune with custom tune. I removed the mids, and placed the tweeters under the dash where the original tweeters usually are placed. 

hanatsu do you have time today to help me in setting up my mic with room eq in my mac, I am curious to see what we can achieve in tuning using just the p99. I will keep my Skype open so please drop me a message if you have time today to just set up the mic, and what measurements shall we take for a 2 way system. And when I take the measurements shall I remove all crossover points that were dialed in after I did autotune

If it was my own car I would not have placed the mids and tweeters on the dash but since its not, I find that maybe the placement of the mids on the dash was the main problem I had. So I am back to 2 ways and lets see what we can achieve.


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## Luke/Peaandham

I found from the basic settings I had without an auto tune I had quite the peak in midrange, the P99 autotune boosted the sub and midbass, but it also boosted the midrange quite dramatically. 

I have RTA photos of this if anyone would like to see?

Since ive done the manual tune on an RTA myself i'll never go back to using the autotune.


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## themad

Luke/Peaandham said:


> I found from the basic settings I had without an auto tune I had quite the peak in midrange, the P99 autotune boosted the sub and midbass, but it also boosted the midrange quite dramatically.
> 
> I have RTA photos of this if anyone would like to see?
> 
> Since ive done the manual tune on an RTA myself i'll never go back to using the autotune.


Sure, it would be great to see how the autotune turned out.


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## 2010hummerguy

Luke/Peaandham said:


> I found from the basic settings I had without an auto tune I had quite the peak in midrange, the P99 autotune boosted the sub and midbass, but it also boosted the midrange quite dramatically.
> 
> I have RTA photos of this if anyone would like to see?
> 
> Since ive done the manual tune on an RTA myself i'll never go back to using the autotune.


How did you have the Autotune mic aimed and where was it mounted?


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## Luke/Peaandham

The mic would be attached to the middle of the headrest with either a heavy duty double sided tape or a belt. It would always be aimed straight ahead.


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## foreman

I keep watching this thread and wonder what auto tune did to my car. It does give me a higher, more center stage but my midrange is so thick and and my midbass all but went away. I know i need to tune more but without autotune the midbass is great yet stage is low and localized.


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## derickveliz

I've been trying to stay away and not share my opinion for auto tune with the P99, but here we go...

*T/A and x-overs doesn't work *(for me) I have the feeling it's generic and has presets by default.

EQ it's kind of Bold but it helps specially for people that don't go the extra mile tuning.

*The P99 can tune really good* but easily could make a system sound bad.

*Understanding the basics of sound and the limitations of the interior of our cars it's essential to get a good sound from the wonderful P99*


2 cts.

D.


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## Hanatsu

Autotune does suck. 1 point measurements only work in the modal range, rest needs multiple averages in the listening space. Not impressed with either auto T/A or auto EQ.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


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## avanti1960

foreman said:


> I keep watching this thread and wonder what auto tune did to my car. It does give me a higher, more center stage but my midrange is so thick and and my midbass all but went away. I know i need to tune more but without autotune the midbass is great yet stage is low and localized.


turn it off!


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## t3sn4f2

Except for the MS-8 of course!


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## derickveliz

*I like my P99 so much that I had to have it in my new ride...*





D.


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## few35t

Anybody have one of these units for trade?

FT: GF, 5'4", brunette, 120lbs, D cup, willing to ship.


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## Valsmere

I would absolutely love to get this head unit but without the blue to for at least hands free calling I cant it sucks. I know there are blue tooth adapters/ interfaces but not sure if it will work with the iPhone 6.
Any suggestions, thoughts,ideas?


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## quality_sound

BT is BT. The iPhone's typically have more stable BT than most other phones. It'll work fine. The hard part is finding the adapter. They're like hen's teeth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jtaudioacc

there used to be a lot of phones that didn't work with that adapter. and not being upgradeable, you were sol. sold enough and took back enough to know.

but every iphone did work that i know up. haven't used an iphone 6 myself, but i'd also bet it would work.


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## Valsmere

Thank you for the replies, I'm assuming the blue tooth adapter you guys are referring to is the discontinued one from Pioneer. I had heard,read somewhere that an alpine one may work but the model number escapes me now and not sur it it was real or not. I will check into it more. I do see the Pioneer units and n eBay from time to time.
Thank you


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## quality_sound

Yes. It's the BT200. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Valsmere

Yeppers that's the Pioneer one I see every so often. Well I can always just bite the bullet and try it I know I have blown money on dumber things in my life!


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## 2010hummerguy

Do a WTB ad on here for the BT kit...eBay prices are ridiculously inflated because most are going to people with $$$ overseas. So for anyone who wants to ship ony domestic, the pricing is going to be much more realistic.


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## Valsmere

That's a good idea didn't think of it on account in not known on this message board. Some people are worried with doing business in that situation. I have bought stuff on tacomaworld.com but I don't have that many posts on here at all.


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## pjc

w35t_fg2 said:


> Anybody have one of these units for trade?
> 
> FT: GF, 5'4", brunette, 120lbs, D cup, willing to ship.


Cant believe no one isn't taking you up on this?!


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## few35t

pjc said:


> Cant believe no one isn't taking you up on this?!


I'm sayin.


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## foreman

Ah hell i'll bite. Shoot me some pics, if it works out i'll split the shipping with you. 




w35t_fg2 said:


> I'm sayin.


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## probillygun

I'll try posting here to see if anyone can offer help...

I bought a p99 used and I installed it 3 weeks ago and have been messing with it ever since cause my bass sounds terrible compared to what it used to be! I did notice a big improvement is SQ from my old Alpine 147 BT head unit, however I'm unsable to get my bass sounding tight, deep, and accurate, as it was before. It now sounds innaccurate and muddy to my ear. 


I hit the reset button and setup the crossovers for 4 way fully active setup and I I have separate channels driving all speakers except the subs which the left and right RCA's go straight to my sub mono amp as they did before I had the p99.


I'm guessing maybe I dont have the time alignment correctly entered in???

So I measured all my actual speaker distances;

Left Right
Tweets: 36" 51"
Midrange: 43" 55"
Midbass: 54" 59"
Subs: 59" 59" 

I set the left and right sub and right midbass to max setting of 155.39"
then I subtracted the differences between the 59" sub and rest of the drivers, and entered those #s into the p99.

Example; 

I subtracted 23" from 155.39" for the left tweeter 
I subtracted 8" from 155.39" for the right tweeter
I subtracted 16" from 155.39" for the left midrange
I subtracted 4" from 155.39" for the right midrange
I subtracted 5" from 155.39" for the left midbass
Right midbass was set to 155.39" same as the left and right subs.

entered those settings and the bass still sounds weak and muddy 

Does anyone know what am I doing wrong?

Thanks for the help!
Billy


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## casey

the method you used may work but I think there may be some flaws in it. I would either use the actual distance in inches and plug each in, or take those distances and use the pioneer calculator here:

http://tracerite.com/calc.html

also, once you have the values in (they should be pretty damn close from my experience) you may want to mess with phase on the subs/midbass


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## probillygun

thanks, that got me fixed up I think. My bass sound is "Correct" again but something is intermittent I think cause I notice sometimes its dull and thuddy sounding again....must be another issue somewhere, I'll keep troublehsooting....


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## spent

Is there a noticeable difference in the sound quality of the different music file formats? I don't have an Ipod and wanted to still get the best sounding music through the USB.

So, am I going to have to buy one now?

Thanks in advance!


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## narvarr

spent said:


> Is there a noticeable difference in the sound quality of the different music file formats? I don't have an Ipod and wanted to still get the best sounding music through the USB.
> 
> So, am I going to have to buy one now?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


The P99rs will play music from a portable hard drive as long as the music format is compatible. It takes a little longer to start but it a cheaper option.


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## quality_sound

But as far as better sounding, no. The P99 extracts music from the iPod digitally so as long as the file quality is the same as what is on a HDD then it'll sound the same. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## spent

Anyone running 3 way components up front with rears and a sub(s)? I am thinking of doing this and wondered if anyone had experience with this and what they thought of the sound.


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## aznlunatic

Just got my p99rs in the mail today and immediately installed the head unit, so far this thing is amazing. Going to run the auto eq and t/a to get a base line and tune from there. I do have one question for you p99rs owners, I notice the background color on the screen switches from a black background to a white bbackground every so often and it keeps switching, is there a way to just keep the screen black?


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## quality_sound

aznlunatic said:


> Just got my p99rs in the mail today and immediately installed the head unit, so far this thing is amazing. Going to run the auto eq and t/a to get a base line and tune from there. I do have one question for you p99rs owners, I notice the background color on the screen switches from a black background to a white bbackground every so often and it keeps switching, is there a way to just keep the screen black?


RTFM! Seriously, it's in the manual. It's demo mode. Turn the P99 off with the car on and hold down the menu button. Then cycle through to that settign and turn it off.


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## aznlunatic

quality_sound said:


> RTFM! Seriously, it's in the manual. It's demo mode. Turn the P99 off with the car on and hold down the menu button. Then cycle through to that settign and turn it off.


Well it didn't come with a manual from the seller on this forum and I ran out of time before work to look it up real quick which is the reason why I posted the question. I haven't had a chance to read the entire manual yet, but thanks for telling me how to turn off demo mode


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## aznlunatic

Well I scrolled through the menu function while the unit was off and there is no demo setting, looked in the manual and it does not mention a single word about demo mode. Any help?

EDIT: it's not demo mode, its reverse mode in the settings menu. Finally figured it out


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## 2010hummerguy

Yep Reverse Mode, I freaking hate that mode!


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## Elektra

Hi Guys

Just a question here.. Can the P99 run 2 different sub setups on the 2 mono sub outputs? Could the P90dsp do this? I would like to run a sub upfront and in the rear? Is this possible?

Thanks for help...


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## Hanatsu

2 subwoofer outputs are different channels so yes, you can do different setups.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


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## Elektra

Hanatsu said:


> 2 subwoofer outputs are different channels so yes, you can do different setups.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


Thanks for coming back to me

Is this true For the p90 DSP as well?


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## aznlunatic

Took today off work because it's been pretty slow. So I spent the day tweaking the settings on my p99. I did auto TA and EQ to get a baseline mainly for time alignment. First thing I noticed right off bat was how blown out the midbass was, soo much midbass I ended turning auto EQ off and while that lowered the output volume a little it sounded so much better with a flat eq. Just need some ideas on how you guys adjusted eq? Do most people leave it somewhat flat or put it on a RTA and smooth out everything? I tweaked the time alignment a little bit to center the highs a bit because I could pin point some vocals from the right side. I tried the time Alignment using noise tracks and I had a hard time with that noticing the noise change when I had the 80prs


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## 82801BA

aznlunatic said:


> Took today off work because it's been pretty slow. So I spent the day tweaking the settings on my p99. I did auto TA and EQ to get a baseline mainly for time alignment. First thing I noticed right off bat was how blown out the midbass was, soo much midbass I ended turning auto EQ off and while that lowered the output volume a little it sounded so much better with a flat eq. Just need some ideas on how you guys adjusted eq? Do most people leave it somewhat flat or put it on a RTA and smooth out everything? I tweaked the time alignment a little bit to center the highs a bit because I could pin point some vocals from the right side. I tried the time Alignment using noise tracks and I had a hard time with that noticing the noise change when I had the 80prs


I use time alignment and then L/R EQ. In my setup, some bands have up to 10dB difference between left and right (-5/+5). After initial L/R EQ, I use my ears with vocals to tweak other frequencies. My EQ is no where near flat at all, but it sounds good to me.


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## gijoe

aznlunatic said:


> Took today off work because it's been pretty slow. So I spent the day tweaking the settings on my p99. I did auto TA and EQ to get a baseline mainly for time alignment. First thing I noticed right off bat was how blown out the midbass was, soo much midbass I ended turning auto EQ off and while that lowered the output volume a little it sounded so much better with a flat eq. Just need some ideas on how you guys adjusted eq? Do most people leave it somewhat flat or put it on a RTA and smooth out everything? I tweaked the time alignment a little bit to center the highs a bit because I could pin point some vocals from the right side. I tried the time Alignment using noise tracks and I had a hard time with that noticing the noise change when I had the 80prs


Time alignment won't do as much for the higher frequencies. If you want to get the treble centered you need to level match the right and left. You can control each channel individually, so adjust the levels so that your image in centered.


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## avanti1960

WOW! Amazing how time flies. Just a few days north of (3) years since I installed the P99! And it still sounds incredible- and I still keep adjusting! (just slightly). 
The combo platter of the P99, the JL amps (especially the JL HD) and my mongrel 3-way up front of the Hybrid Imagine woofers, the Hybrid L3SE doing midrange and the Morel tweeters- all work together to give true audiophile sound in the car. 
I've spent the past year upgrading my home 2-channel SQ based system complete with a kick ass VPI turntable. It's incredible how my SQ reference was the car system, then when I reunited with vinyl and a tube preamplifier and saw what that does for sound quality- I have bounced my sonic preferences back and forth finally settling on a sound that is somewhere in between. If you have never experienced the rich smoothness that a quality vinyl rig can give you (not in the car of course) then I highly recommend you sample the experience. Digital can sound very very good but my home system with vinyl source is my go-to media for really delivering the breathtaking sound quality. 
Adjustments lately include more refinements at left / right EQ to further center the image. Some resonances at certain frequencies around the mid to midrange crossover point cause an over emphasis to the on-axis drivers, which in turn causes a shift to the left in those EQ frequencies when centering with band limited pink noise. 
I try to "tune out" the resonances and adjust to the base sound. This has helped center the image more consistently. 
I played around with the mid to woofer crossover slopes as well, letting the imagine woofers run at 18db slope to shine a little midrange upstairs. While the sound is more open, the image tends to reflect more, a trade off I did not accept. So back to 24db slopes.
Absolutely no regrets in the investment for the P99 and all the other goodies and zero urge to upgrade the car system. At times the vocals are so clear and present you just get the chills. The other day I was playing an Elvis Costello CD and man, he was like right there. Peace.


----------



## avanti1960

spent said:


> Anyone running 3 way components up front with rears and a sub(s)? I am thinking of doing this and wondered if anyone had experience with this and what they thought of the sound.


This is how I have my setup. I prefer it this way but it has some limitations and challenges. 
First limitation is there are only (8) channels including (2) for subwoofer. Since I run my rear door passive component set on the LOW channels, this leaves the MID and HIGH for front door duties. 
I got around this by making a sweet DIY passive crossover network for the midrange to tweeter and run them both together on the HIGH channels. Meniscus Audio has some audiophile quality passive crossover components if interested. There are calculators out there that can help you design it as well. The other limitation is that since the mid and tweet are on the HIGH channel, it is limited on the bottom end by an 800Hz crossover point (for tweeter protection during auto tune). 
Some may not like crossing their woofer to midrange at 800Hz, but it works for me.


----------



## aznlunatic

i have a quick question, so i currently have autoeq on, can i still use the 31 band eq to adjust the frequencies? or does the autoeq over ride it? thanks


----------



## nikster22

avanti1960 said:


> This is how I have my setup. I prefer it this way but it has some limitations and challenges.
> First limitation is there are only (8) channels including (2) for subwoofer. Since I run my rear door passive component set on the LOW channels, this leaves the MID and HIGH for front door duties.
> I got around this by making a sweet DIY passive crossover network for the midrange to tweeter and run them both together on the HIGH channels. Meniscus Audio has some audiophile quality passive crossover components if interested. There are calculators out there that can help you design it as well. The other limitation is that since the mid and tweet are on the HIGH channel, it is limited on the bottom end by an 800Hz crossover point (for tweeter protection during auto tune).
> Some may not like crossing their woofer to midrange at 800Hz, but it works for me.


Are you happy with having a front sound stage-only? Curious where the auto-EQ crossed between the mids and tweets on your setup. Thanks!


----------



## avanti1960

aznlunatic said:


> i have a quick question, so i currently have autoeq on, can i still use the 31 band eq to adjust the frequencies? or does the autoeq over ride it? thanks


yes but it is not good to do this. you are adding EQ on top of EQ and for me it did not sound as good as if you just EQ without autotune. 
I strongly recommend RTA software, a mic and microphone power supply. threads all over the place how to do this as well as what target frequency response curve to shoot for.


----------



## avanti1960

nikster22 said:


> Are you happy with having a front sound stage-only? Curious where the auto-EQ crossed between the mids and tweets on your setup. Thanks!


I have rear passive components in the doors. 
The auto tune spits out a generic crossover for all mid to high channels. 
If you run autotune you can pre-set your own crossovers. 
what speakers and where are they located?


----------



## shavis

A quick review, notes and a hugely important question....

First, the P99 is absolutely awesome for my setup. Very little room did not allow for a Bit10 or external x-overs. Took quite some time to get her dialed in, but what really did the best was setting the EQ. There was just something off that I couldn't remove with the auto eq or time delays. So I went manual. tape measured the distances and plugged that in. Then using test tones, adjusted the EQ to where is sounded flat to my ear in the driving (then passanger) position. THAT did it! Even though the eq curve was scary, it sounded perfect! The sound stage just lit up. Depth, height, and even width to this tiny car. 

I had a chance to spend an hour or so in front of a pair of Wilson Alexandria XLF's (and Audio Research gear) to get my reference fix, get back in the Porsche playing the same music, and must say....DAYUM! This is good.



Now the all important question...since the Bluetooth adapter is discontinued, what is a good BT adapter to use with this head unit?

Cheers!


----------



## quality_sound

That's the only one that works with it. Scour eBay. They pop up occasionally.


----------



## shavis

quality_sound said:


> That's the only one that works with it. Scour eBay. They pop up occasionally.


Thanks! I picked one up this morning. Used, but has cables, manual, etc.

Should be here next week.

Now, maybe I can Spotify the car.

Cheers!


----------



## fcarpio

So I read the manual and I know how to adjust the time alignment, but I do not understand with respect to what. I have my units set to inches but I don't know what to enter. I am guessing the distance of each speaker from the listening position? I am so used to add my actual delay time so I am at a loss with the distance. Any help with what to enter will be greatly appreciated.

Maybe I am over thinking this too much.

EDIT: Entering the actual distance from each speaker to the listening position seems to have done the trick. I love this unit.


----------



## jriggs

> Entering the actual distance from each speaker to the listening position seems to have done the trick. I love this unit.


Yes, and then plug those numbers into this http://tracerite.com/calc.html, make sure you select pioneer.

You will get different numbers but try it, it works well.


----------



## Elektra

Guys ... I know this is a P99 thread but could anyone help me here

I have the P90 combo - just bought the focal Kit 7 with crossblock - my question is this how do I set the DSP to avoid conflicts with the cross block? I mean the midrange frequency is set on the midrange output on the DSP right? So what would happen if I used my cross block which has a 300hz 12db slope? 

Also does the midrange frequency on the DSP run to 20khz? As the cross block has one input for mid and tweeter..

Can anyone shed some light here - really don't want to lose the DSP...


----------



## derickveliz

What is a P90 combo?

D.


----------



## Elektra

derickveliz said:


> What is a P90 combo?
> 
> D.


DEX-P90RS and DEQ-P90..


----------



## derickveliz

Elektra said:


> DEX-P90RS and DEQ-P90..


I don't know the P90 combo but...

*Even if you get your DSP to play one channel from 55Hz up to 20kHz feeding your crossblock the first issue I see you may run into is Time Alignment for each component, unless you install them in the same area clustered all 3 together.*

D.


----------



## Elektra

derickveliz said:


> I don't know the P90 combo but...
> 
> *Even if you get your DSP to play one channel from 55Hz up to 20kHz feeding your crossblock the first issue I see you may run into is Time Alignment for each component, unless you install them in the same area clustered all 3 together.*
> 
> D.


Reading the manual (helps!!!) you can set the slopes to "pass" similar to your P99 - just wondering if you can still EQ and time align as that's all you would want to do if you let the cross block deal with the slopes and frequencies..


----------



## Elektra

Hi Guys

So I was helping my brother tune his car over the weekend.. He has the P99 HU.. The P99 sounds weird in a sense that the it sounds very pitchy on the tops - I used my RTA to help tune it but it doesn't seem to get much better.

I tried to use my iPhone 6 as a source (using the 3.5mm jack to rca straight to the amp) and it sounds better - no more pitchy highs!

I tried to RTA the response and match the P99 to the iPhone and it would appear that the closest to the IPhone in terms of response is auto EQ off and flat response.. This actually sounded decent - but the bass response is not as good as it was before..

It seems you have to have the auto EQ on - but then I am back to a pitchy sound which isn't great..

Do you guys have a solution to this dilema? From my limited knowledge of the P99 this appears to be a problem - why must you auto EQ before tuning , why can't you just adjust small things on a no EQ platform?. Why can't the HU run as a dead head with no processing? 

Am I missing something?


----------



## claydo

The auto eq is an option.....it is not required. You can choose to have auto eq off in the audio menus. I have never even set it up on mine. On your setup, out of curiosity, why would you use the focal passives when you have full processing capability?


----------



## narvarr

claydo said:


> The auto eq is an option.....it is not required. You can choose to have auto eq off in the audio menus. I have never even set it up on mine. On your setup, out of curiosity, why would you use the focal passives when you have full processing capability?


Exactly what he said. Better yet, reset the audio memory and don't even activate the auto EQ. Just do everything manually and you'll have better results.


----------



## Elektra

claydo said:


> The auto eq is an option.....it is not required. You can choose to have auto eq off in the audio menus. I have never even set it up on mine. On your setup, out of curiosity, why would you use the focal passives when you have full processing capability?


On this setup it's the Alpine F1 2 way with revelator subs - it's impossible to get the F1's to sound as good as the Passives - trust me we tried!!

I am a firm believer that on the very high end speaker setups that offer a specialized passive - it's better to use them. 

My other setup will run the Focal Kit 7 with cross block - I don't believe active can achieve the same SQ as a very specialized passive - remember the cross block has 4500 potential tweeks

From my own experience - the less you EQ the better the car sounded..

From my weekends tuning all it showed me was that unless you absolutely understand the type of curve your trying to achieve - it's a waste to have a EQ..

As anything adjusted just made it sound worse..


----------



## claydo

I wouldn't say impossible.........maybe just out of reach? What could a passive possibly apply that would be beyond a knowledgeable tuner and a quality processor?


----------



## Elektra

claydo said:


> I wouldn't say impossible.........maybe just out of reach? What could a passive possibly apply that would be beyond a knowledgeable tuner and a quality processor?


You should read the manual...

For instance the passive attenuated the tweeter from 3db slope to 18db on a specific setting - no processor can do that. 

I haven't read the manual for a long time but I remember reading these settings and remember thinking that it wasn't possible to do that.

I also spent 2 weeks tuning my setup (also F1) and it had a specific frequency - actually very similar to what I am hearing on the P99 - spend hours trying to get it right and then I decided to try the Passives and literally 10min later after electronically level matching the tweeter it was perfect..

Sorry but the high end Passives are specifically designed to enhance the drivers - they are not a convenience accessory. 

Read up on the new Morel Supremo S02 and see what that passive does to the tweeter and mid..


----------



## claydo

I admit......passives are excellent high end crossover solutions that have their place in equalaterally placed cabinets in relation to a listening chair, using planned baffle sizing, and known response drivers.........


----------



## narvarr

Elektra said:


> You should read the manual...
> 
> For instance the passive attenuated the tweeter from 3db slope to 18db on a specific setting - no processor can do that.
> 
> I haven't read the manual for a long time but I remember reading these settings and remember thinking that it wasn't possible to do that.
> 
> I also spent 2 weeks tuning my setup (also F1) and it had a specific frequency - actually very similar to what I am hearing on the P99 - spend hours trying to get it right and then I decided to try the Passives and literally 10min later after electronically level matching the tweeter it was perfect..
> 
> Sorry but the high end Passives are specifically designed to enhance the drivers - they are not a convenience accessory.
> 
> Read up on the new Morel Supremo S02 and see what that passive does to the tweeter and mid..


I respectively disagree, a processor with a good parametric EQ like the Helix units and PS8 can do that, but we are talking about the P99, which can't.


----------



## Elektra

narvarr said:


> I respectively disagree, a processor with a good parametric EQ like the Helix units and PS8 can do that, but we are talking about the P99, which can't.


I guess my experiences with active with high end speakers has not been as successful as same speakers with Passives..

Passives in a high end solution has its place.. I would def go active in mid ranged speaker sets as those Passives are generic and are not built to high end standards and components such as the Focal cross block and F1 Passives and Morel Supremo s02 passives..

Even Morel state that the Passives enhance the supremo sets and I have read reviews on the Brax Graphic Pros where they tested both setups and agreed that the Passives are required..


----------



## narvarr

Elektra said:


> I guess my experiences with active with high end speakers has not been as successful as same speakers with Passives..
> 
> Passives in a high end solution has its place.. I would def go active in mid ranged speaker sets as those Passives are generic and are not built to high end standards and components such as the Focal cross block and F1 Passives and Morel Supremo s02 passives..
> 
> Even Morel state that the Passives enhance the supremo sets and I have read reviews on the Brax Graphic Pros where they tested both setups and agreed that the Passives are required..


Passives do have their place in car audio. But that depends on limitations of equipment. Using a passive with the P99 isn't a bad thing when you consider the limitations of the P99. I have two friends that use hi end speakers. One is using the P9 combo with Morel drivers and passive and the other is using the Focal Be #7 kit active without the crossblock and Mosconi 6to8v8 processor. Both have won First place in major competition events and they both sound great.


----------



## Elektra

narvarr said:


> Passives do have their place in car audio. But that depends on limitations of equipment. Using a passive with the P99 isn't a bad thing when you consider the limitations of the P99. I have two friends that use hi end speakers. One is using the P9 combo with Morel drivers and passive and the other is using the Focal Be #7 kit active without the crossblock and Mosconi 6to8v8 processor. Both have won First place in major competition events and they both sound great.


Sounds good..

My car is busy with the install.. Using the P90 combo as well - I bought the cross block for future convenience of limiting the amount of amps. I ran my utopias in on a home system for about 3 months using a morel elate 3 way passive and to be honest if my car sounded that good I'll be happy


----------



## derickveliz

Elektra said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> So I was helping my brother tune his car over the weekend.. He has the P99 HU.. The P99 sounds weird in a sense that the it sounds very pitchy on the tops - I used my RTA to help tune it but it doesn't seem to get much better.
> 
> I tried to use my iPhone 6 as a source (using the 3.5mm jack to rca straight to the amp) and it sounds better - no more pitchy highs!
> 
> I tried to RTA the response and match the P99 to the iPhone and it would appear that the closest to the IPhone in terms of response is auto EQ off and flat response.. This actually sounded decent - but the bass response is not as good as it was before..
> 
> It seems you have to have the auto EQ on - but then I am back to a pitchy sound which isn't great..
> 
> Do you guys have a solution to this dilema? From my limited knowledge of the P99 this appears to be a problem - why must you auto EQ before tuning , why can't you just adjust small things on a no EQ platform?. Why can't the HU run as a dead head with no processing?
> 
> Am I missing something?




*What if you just reset the unit?*

D.


----------



## derickveliz

claydo said:


> I admit......passives are excellent high end crossover solutions that have their place in equalaterally placed cabinets in relation to a listening chair, using planned baffle sizing, and known response drivers.........


*Agree*

D.


----------



## derickveliz

derickveliz said:


> *What if you just reset the unit?*
> 
> D.




D.


----------



## quality_sound

Elektra said:


> On this setup it's the Alpine F1 2 way with revelator subs - it's impossible to get the F1's to sound as good as the Passives - trust me we tried!!
> 
> 
> 
> *I am a firm believer that on the very high end speaker setups that offer a specialized passive - it's better to use them. *
> 
> 
> 
> My other setup will run the Focal Kit 7 with cross block - I don't believe active can achieve the same SQ as a very specialized passive - remember the cross block has 4500 potential tweeks
> 
> 
> 
> From my own experience - the less you EQ the better the car sounded..
> 
> 
> 
> From my weekends tuning all it showed me was that unless you absolutely understand the type of curve your trying to achieve - it's a waste to have a EQ..
> 
> 
> 
> As anything adjusted just made it sound worse..



This is incorrect. 

It's also not just about the curve. Phase is HUGELY important. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## derickveliz

quality_sound said:


> This is incorrect.
> It's also not just about the curve. Phase is HUGELY important.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



*Agree!

After learning and understanding how DPS works (P99 in this case) and all the issues we ran into our cars, passive x-overs are a good memory.

And for speakers, what really matters it's the install + tuning! not the price*

I love my P99

D.


----------



## Mr Orange

Can somebody who owns one of these marvels get the dimensions of just the control panel. I'm thinking about installing one of these into a dash that isn't set up for a DIN chassis and if I can remote mount the control panel it might be an easier, read that as much less expensive install. Thanks in advance!


----------



## derickveliz

How would you do that?
I've been trying to figure out how to link the face with the HU installing them far apart. I even post it here asking 4 help early in this thread and we couldn't figure out.

D.


----------



## Mr Orange

derickveliz said:


> How would you do that?
> I've been trying to figure out how to link the face with the HU installing them far apart. I even post it here asking 4 help early in this thread and we couldn't figure out.
> 
> D.


Use a ribbon cable. I saw a photo someplace where somebody had installed the face in a custom overhead mount. I only need to separate the face from the chassis by a few inches.

Someplace in this thread is also a link to some guy who completely took a 99 apart. I think it was a video but I've been unable to find it again. That might shed some light too.


----------



## Mr Orange

I found the tear down thread...DEX-P99RS tear down and hacking fun! - General Car Audio - Talk Audio


----------



## derickveliz

*The face is about 17cm x 4.5cm*

D.


----------



## SkizeR

derickveliz said:


> How would you do that?
> I've been trying to figure out how to link the face with the HU installing them far apart. I even post it here asking 4 help early in this thread and we couldn't figure out.
> 
> D.


someone did it in a thread here a while ago using some sort of ribbon cable


----------



## Mr Orange

derickveliz said:


> *The face is about 17cm x 4.5cm*
> 
> D.


Thanks!

My next request. According to the manual the face is removable but I've been unable to find any photos of it with the face removed. Would somebody shoot a couple of photos of the back of the face and the front of the HU with the face removed. I'm looking for how the two mate together electrically. I would really appreciate it.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Anyone looking at selling theres. Please let me know.


----------



## derickveliz

SkizeR said:


> someone did it in a thread here a while ago using some sort of ribbon cable


*I wish I could find it, if you happen to cross by please repost it.

thanks*

D.


----------



## Mr Orange

Alrighty then! 

Here is the back of the face connector...









And here is the mate on the HU...









This is what I'm attempting to do in a 2013 Ford Focus ST2...









Now that I've been driving to work at night several days without that large glowing screen lighting the interior this is going to happen one way or another even if I have to mount the 99RS in the glovebox! Yes it does fit but it just doesn't seem right to hide something so nice looking.


----------



## bigjig

so I'm considering pulling the trigger on one of these units, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to my question which I will pose to you all:

Can one play spotify through the p99rs via iPhone without the addition of the external bluetooth unit?


----------



## casey

bigjig said:


> so I'm considering pulling the trigger on one of these units, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to my question which I will pose to you all:
> 
> Can one play spotify through the p99rs via iPhone without the addition of the external bluetooth unit?


Yes it will play through the USB port. Sounds good too


----------



## bigjig

awesome!! thank you. does the p99 display artist/song names while playing spotify through USB? I assume you have to select/change songs through the iPhone interface, and not through the p99?


----------



## jriggs

I have successfully played spotify through USD from an ipad.


----------



## bigjig

and did the p99rs display the artist / song name when you played spotify through USB? can you control the spotify interface directly through the p99?


----------



## few35t

So much want, so little $ =(


----------



## SkizeR

just got my front stage up and going and wanted to try out the auto tune. anyone know if its possible to do auto tune without subs? i keep getting an error saying no subs


----------



## erlebo

SkizeR said:


> just got my front stage up and going and wanted to try out the auto tune. anyone know if its possible to do auto tune without subs? i keep getting an error saying no subs


You can do that by turning the subs off in the initial settings.


----------



## SkizeR

erlebo said:


> You can do that by turning the subs off in the initial settings.


now how exactly do i do that? im new to this head unit


----------



## sqnut

SkizeR said:


> now how exactly do i do that? im new to this head unit


It's the same as it is on the p800/880/80. Go to the network menu select the sub in the network select left sub and press the command button and hold, it will mute in ~2-3 sec. Now flip to the R sub and mute that. If you want to un mute go back to the menu select sub and it will say MUTE, click the command button and the sub will be activated.


----------



## SkizeR

sqnut said:


> It's the same as it is on the p800/880/80. Go to the network menu select the sub in the network select left sub and press the command button and hold, it will mute in ~2-3 sec. Now flip to the R sub and mute that. If you want to un mute go back to the menu select sub and it will say MUTE, click the command button and the sub will be activated.


ahh thanks. this thing is extremely confusing


----------



## Wy2quiet

So in the grand scheme of things...is this an MS-8 replacement do you guys think? Is the Auto Tune that good?


----------



## sqnut

SkizeR said:


> ahh thanks. this thing is extremely confusing


Once you get used to the pio's they're very intuitive...... like all apple devices. People seem to either love both or hate both the brands. 

I guess it come down to what you've been using. If you are a long time Alpine user, you will find everything about the pio clunky. Starting with the TA to the menus. 

I've been using pio's since before the 8XX series and I find the alipne/kenwoods etc a bit clunky and confusing to navigate. Too many small buttons to keep track of. With the pio you've got volume and source control on the left knob and everything else on the right, nice and simple for dumbos like me.


----------



## SkizeR

sqnut said:


> It's the same as it is on the p800/880/80. Go to the network menu select the sub in the network select left sub and press the command button and hold, it will mute in ~2-3 sec. Now flip to the R sub and mute that. If you want to un mute go back to the menu select sub and it will say MUTE, click the command button and the sub will be activated.


Ok now that I'm here I'm not sure how to even get in network mode or what the command button is lol


----------



## SkizeR

well turn the unit on, i press the multi control button and select audio, then go to the crossover settings? when i hold the multi control button in, it just goes from L&R channel to just left or right. then when i press and hold it again, it just goes back to L&R. or is this not "NW1" as it says in the manual?


----------



## gijoe

I'd have to check, but I think you turn the subwoofers off in the initial settings. This is different than muting them in the menu. With the unit off, hold down the button until the settings appear. I believe one of the options is to turn the subwoofers off completely. Again, I'd have to go and actually do it to be certain of the steps, but if my memory is correct, that's how you do it. 

I am one of those who think Pioneers are pretty easy to navigate. Perhaps it's because I've used Pioneer decks for 10+ years at this point, but I've never had any real struggles with them. 

I'll try to check the exact steps for you.


----------



## SkizeR

gijoe said:


> I'd have to check, but I think you turn the subwoofers off in the initial settings. This is different than muting them in the menu. With the unit off, hold down the button until the settings appear. I believe one of the options is to turn the subwoofers off completely. Again, I'd have to go and actually do it to be certain of the steps, but if my memory is correct, that's how you do it.
> 
> I am one of those who think Pioneers are pretty easy to navigate. Perhaps it's because I've used Pioneer decks for 10+ years at this point, but I've never had any real struggles with them.
> 
> I'll try to check the exact steps for you.


hold down the multi control button? going out to try it now. i will be back soon and report my endeavors :laugh:


----------



## sqnut

SkizeR said:


> Ok now that I'm here I'm not sure how to even get in network mode or what the command button is lol


The left knob is your volume control and when you press the knob in it lets you select the source cd/fm/aux etc. The right knob is called the remote commander (I don't know why pio calls it that) anyway, pressing this knob takes you to a menu where you can select between entertainment / audio / settings (iirc). Entertainment is to setup the visual display on the HU. Select audio and it will take you to the audio menu and you can scroll between TA, eq, network, bbe and some other stuff. Every time you want to select something you have to press the RC.


----------



## gijoe

SkizeR said:


> hold down the multi control button? going out to try it now. i will be back soon and report my endeavors :laugh:


Yes, just confirmed it. Turn the unit off, hold down the multi-controller button to enter the initial settings (language, clock, aux, etc.). I believe subwoofer is the second setting, after language (unless you turn the knob the opposite way, then you'll need to scroll through them all).


----------



## sqnut

Wy2quiet said:


> So in the grand scheme of things...is this an MS-8 replacement do you guys think? Is the Auto Tune that good?


The P-99 has way more tune ability than the MS-8. The auto tune on the pio is so so. You're don't buy the p99 for it's auto tune.


----------



## SkizeR

gijoe said:


> Yes, just confirmed it. Turn the unit off, hold down the multi-controller button to enter the initial settings (language, clock, aux, etc.). I believe subwoofer is the second setting, after language (unless you turn the knob the opposite way, then you'll need to scroll through them all).


Thanks. I got it. I went through the auto ta and eq process but it didn't save it? It's still the same as before.


----------



## erlebo

SkizeR said:


> Thanks. I got it. I went through the auto ta and eq process but it didn't save it? It's still the same as before.


The P99 doesn't save the auto EQ in one of the five user EQ memories and we can't see what it does, but you should be able to see the results of the auto TA.


----------



## SkizeR

erlebo said:


> The P99 doesn't save the auto EQ in one of the five user EQ memories and we can't see what it does, but you should be able to see the results of the auto TA.


ahh i see. and yeah i was able to see the results. and i just actually figured this thing out. thanks guys.


----------



## gijoe

It's a brilliant device, once you figure out how to make use of it's features. Glad you got what you were looking for.


----------



## LaserSVT

I need one of these so bad. Only place I can find a good price on them is out of Italy and i have no idea if their tuners work here. I hate the idea of also spending another $180 for a BT module. Cant believe they didnt include one with it. I understand wanting to keep it outboard so the chassis has as little noise intrusion as possible but still....

We have a member here with one for a damn good price but I want it to look brand new and his is a little less than good.


----------



## Coppertone

To me it's a darn great unit which affords you several wonderful features. Do it man, do it lol...


----------



## LaserSVT

I should have bought yours


----------



## Coppertone

That's ok as I'm getting another one as a Father's Day gift.


----------



## LaserSVT

Cool, sell it to me.


----------



## Coppertone

I'm sorry, we have a bad connection lol....


----------



## Mr Orange

Well I've taken the plunge and ordered a new 99RS. I got the email that it was being shipped today!  Unfortunately now I'll have to just dream about turning it on as the custom install won't happen until next month.  After making the rounds to talk to several installers I found one that can do what I want but it isn't going to be cheap but it is going to be very unique for my car. 

Oh the install won't involve any ribbon cables. I gave up on that idea. I just couldn't justify voiding the warrenty on a $1200 head unit.

Separate topic and question. I can't imagine what kind of responses I'll get to this but here goes, flame suit on. I'm thinking of pairing my 99 up with a Helix DSP. I know the 99 has a built in DSP but that isn't the primary reason I bought one of these. I've never been a fan of all in one box kind of guy when it comes to electronics. My home system is all separates and I'm thinking an outboard processor could do better that the 99. It also seems like it would be a lot easier to tune. What do you think and has anybody else done this or thought of doing it?

I guess you should also know that I'm going to be setting this up in a standard front/rear configuration. The speakers will be Focal KR and the amps will be a JL XD800/8v2 bridged for 4 channels and the Focal 27KX sub will be fed by a JL 1000/1v2. This is all going into a Ford Focus ST2.


----------



## gijoe

Mr Orange said:


> Well I've taken the plunge and ordered a new 99RS. I got the email that it was being shipped today!  Unfortunately now I'll have to just dream about turning it on as the custom install won't happen until next month.  After making the rounds to talk to several installers I found one that can do what I want but it isn't going to be cheap but it is going to be very unique for my car.
> 
> Oh the install won't involve any ribbon cables. I gave up on that idea. I just couldn't justify voiding the warrenty on a $1200 head unit.
> 
> Separate topic and question. I can't imagine what kind of responses I'll get to this but here goes, flame suit on. I'm thinking of pairing my 99 up with a Helix DSP. I know the 99 has a built in DSP but that isn't the primary reason I bought one of these. I've never been a fan of all in one box kind of guy when it comes to electronics. My home system is all separates and I'm thinking an outboard processor could do better that the 99. It also seems like it would be a lot easier to tune. What do you think and has anybody else done this or thought of doing it?
> 
> I guess you should also know that I'm going to be setting this up in a standard front/rear configuration. The speakers will be Focal KR and the amps will be a JL XD800/8v2 bridged for 4 channels and the Focal 27KX sub will be fed by a JL 1000/1v2. This is all going into a Ford Focus ST2.


I don't know how the processing of the Helix compares to the P99RS, but it does seem like a waste to spend $1,200 on the Pioneer just to use it as a controller. It's great looking, and well built, but that alone doesn't make it worth $1,200. I can't imagine the Helix DSP offering much better tuning options, but again, I don't know what it can do. I will say though, if you need more processing than the P99RS you have either an extremely advanced system, or you don't know how to use the tools that the Pioneer offers. Others will have to comment on the Helix unit, but it sounds to me like you spent $1,200 on one of the best head units made, just to use it as a controller.


----------



## SkizeR

gijoe said:


> I don't know how the processing of the Helix compares to the P99RS, but it does seem like a waste to spend $1,200 on the Pioneer just to use it as a controller. It's great looking, and well built, but that alone doesn't make it worth $1,200. *I can't imagine the Helix DSP offering much better tuning options,* but again, I don't know what it can do. I will say though, if you need more processing than the P99RS you have either an extremely advanced system, or you don't know how to use the tools that the Pioneer offers. Others will have to comment on the Helix unit, but it sounds to me like you spent $1,200 on one of the best head units made, just to use it as a controller.


imagine again.. instead of 31 band graphic left and right, the helix is 31 band per channel parametric (almost positive its parametric). also has phase adjustments as little as somewhere around 10 degrees


----------



## casey

I think youre losing half of the functionality of the 99 and the helix by not running the speakers active. Just seems like a bit of a waste


----------



## narvarr

gijoe said:


> I don't know how the processing of the Helix compares to the P99RS, but it does seem like a waste to spend $1,200 on the Pioneer just to use it as a controller. It's great looking, and well built, but that alone doesn't make it worth $1,200. I can't imagine the Helix DSP offering much better tuning options, but again, I don't know what it can do. I will say though, if you need more processing than the P99RS you have either an extremely advanced system, or you don't know how to use the tools that the Pioneer offers. Others will have to comment on the Helix unit, but it sounds to me like you spent $1,200 on one of the best head units made, just to use it as a controller.


The P99rs is well worth the coin for what it can do. That being said, it is not even close in function to what the Helix can do. I myself used the P99rs with a Helix and it was an awesome combo. I also used the Helix with the DRX 9255 and the P99rs sounds better, cleaner with the Helix than the DRX. My advice, find a used Pioneer DEX-P9 head unit and use it with the Helix. It is just as clean sounding as the P99rs and can be found for around $350. I actually just bought a DEX-P9 myself to use with the Helix and the p99rs is going in another vehicle.


----------



## Bayboy

EQ per channel is the difference. That much is obvious and well worth consideration of using a separate dsp with another source instead of an all-in-one unit.


----------



## gijoe

Bayboy said:


> EQ per channel is the difference. That much is obvious and well worth consideration of using a separate dsp with another source instead of an all-in-one unit.


Is it that much more valuable though? I'm askimg honestly. Parametric is an advantage, I'll admit that, but what does the ability to EQ per channel offer over EQ per side? Since each driver is used within a limited passband, why would that driver need EQ options outside of that passband? Again, not stirring the pot, just trying to understand what benefit you get from driver dependant EQ vs. left/right EQ.


----------



## Bayboy

In my opinion.... yes. Crossovers are only effective against EQ bleed through when the points are wayyy out of the way. Harmonics can be a mofo, but can also play into a tune if you're careful. I suppose if one isn't that picky and lucks up (or maybe just skill) in choosing the right drivers that work well for the situation. Often not the case especially in the way most of us mix & match drivers.


----------



## quality_sound

I'm pretty sure the phase adjustment is only 180 degrees except on the sub which is 90 degree steps.


----------



## SkizeR

quality_sound said:


> I'm pretty sure the phase adjustment is only 180 degrees except on the sub which is 90 degree steps.


ah damn your right. idk where i heard that from. but the sub channel is 22.5 degree adjustments. at least thats where it matters most


----------



## Mr Orange

Lots of things to consider so far.  Keep it coming. No time to reply right now. I'm off to work.


----------



## narvarr

quality_sound said:


> I'm pretty sure the phase adjustment is only 180 degrees except on the sub which is 90 degree steps.


Phase on the new Helix 3.xx software is 11.25 degree increments on all channels.


----------



## SkizeR

Ahh I knew it


----------



## Mr Orange

narvarr said:


> I myself used the P99rs with a Helix and it was an awesome combo. I also used the Helix with the DRX 9255 and the P99rs sounds better, cleaner with the Helix than the DRX. My advice, find a used Pioneer DEX-P9 head unit and use it with the Helix. It is just as clean sounding as the P99rs and can be found for around $350. I actually just bought a DEX-P9 myself to use with the Helix and the p99rs is going in another vehicle.


Reading through the manual it states a 4v max on the RCA inputs. You said you had no problems. Am I misinterpreting the manual? 

I did look at P9's but they are getting pretty old. There is one available right now but the build date is March 2003 and he wants $795!!!

I'm going to stick with the P99. Now I just need to resolve this nagging input voltage question.


----------



## Mr Orange

We'll I was all set to pull the trigger on a DSP Pro when just a few minutes ago I got an answer back from Helix about my concern of the 5v preamp out of the 99. Here is their answer...

Dear Mr. Haydel,

your concerns are justified as this is an critical issue.
If your source can deliver higher output voltage than the A/D converters can handle then digital clipping may occur if you crank up the volume of your head unit too far.
Digital clipping is way more dangerous for loudspeakers than analog clipping.
That’s the reason why we cannot recommend the combination of the DEX-P99 with the Helix DSP.

Regards,
Robin Krichel

Robin Krichel
Technical Director
AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
mail: [email protected]
web: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
USt-IdNr.: DE 125919505
Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer




Von: Dale Haydel [mailto:[email protected]] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Mai 2015 18:47
An: Audiotec Fischer Team
Betreff: A question from Dale Haydel (Audiotec Fischer GmbH) [Scanned by Avira Exchange Security]

Audiotec Fischer GmbH

A customer, Dale Haydel, has a question about: HELIX DSP - HP58209.
I'm considering getting a DSP but I'm concerned about the RCA input voltage. My head unit preamp out is rated at 5V (Pioneer DEX-99RS). Is this too high of an input voltage?
Thanks,
Dale
Here is the product link:

HELIX DSP

Regards, your Audiotec Fischer GmbH Team

Audiotec Fischer GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg
Germany

Tel.: +49 2972 97880
Fax: +49 2972 978888
E-Mail: [email protected]
Internet: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio

So I guess it is back to researching different DSP's. Any thoughts on what to look at next? The Helix was the perfect size too! I know the 99 at full out is 5v but at that level am I at ear drum blowing out volume? The Helix does have a clipping indicator. What type of display is volume shown on the 99? Is it bars or a number. Couldn't I set up to find out what that max indication is and just stay below it? What to do, what to do???


----------



## SkizeR

You can always just not turn it up past a certain point, or maybe even use some sort of line converter


----------



## Mr Orange

SkizeR said:


> You can always just not turn it up past a certain point, or maybe even use some sort of line converter


I think not turning it up past a certain point would work too. I could go to 10 but NOT 11! I just have to figure out where is 11 is at on the dial.  I guess it's time to pull out the manual to see what type of display is shown for volume level.


----------



## narvarr

Mr Orange said:


> I think not turning it up past a certain point would work too. I could go to 10 but NOT 11! I just have to figure out where is 11 is at on the dial.  I guess it's time to pull out the manual to see what type of display is shown for volume level.


The P99rs goes up to 62 on the volume. I would start to get the clip light on the Helix at about 58 depending on the recording (4volts output from the P99). Just turn your gains on the Helix all the way to the left, play a 1k sine wave track at 0db and slowly go up on the volume till the light comes on. Note where you are on the volume and don't go past that point.


----------



## Mr Orange

narvarr said:


> The P99rs goes up to 62 on the volume. I would start to get the clip light on the Helix at about 58 depending on the recording (4volts output from the P99). Just turn your gains on the Helix all the way to the left, play a 1k sine wave track at 0db and slowly go up on the volume till the light comes on. Note where you are on the volume and don't go past that point.


Thank you!  I knew there had to be a simple solution to this once I had all the facts. This is the best news I've had all night. It's been a hell night at work. Anyway thank you again. You've made me happy and my dealer will be happy too!


----------



## sqnut

gijoe said:


> Is it that much more valuable though? I'm askimg honestly. Parametric is an advantage, I'll admit that, but what does the ability to EQ per channel offer over EQ per side? Since each driver is used within a limited passband, why would that driver need EQ options outside of that passband? Again, not stirring the pot, just trying to understand what benefit you get from driver dependant EQ vs. left/right EQ.


Cars running only the p99 have won competitions. So to get your sound to that level, no it's not really essential. But it remains a useful feature. I find it really useful when tweaking the response, specially around the xover point. 50% of the benefit is the ability to eq each driver in its passband independently and 50% is the ability to eq a driver in it's stop band without affecting the other drivers. It cleans up the sound a lot.


----------



## LaserSVT

Mr Orange said:


> We'll I was all set to pull the trigger on a DSP Pro when just a few minutes ago I got an answer back from Helix about my concern of the 5v preamp out of the 99. Here is their answer...
> 
> Dear Mr. Haydel,
> 
> your concerns are justified as this is an critical issue.
> If your source can deliver higher output voltage than the A/D converters can handle then digital clipping may occur if you crank up the volume of your head unit too far.
> Digital clipping is way more dangerous for loudspeakers than analog clipping.
> That’s the reason why we cannot recommend the combination of the DEX-P99 with the Helix DSP.
> 
> Regards,
> Robin Krichel
> 
> Robin Krichel
> Technical Director
> AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg
> mail: [email protected]
> web: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
> Amtsgericht Arnsberg HRB 2339
> Steuer Nr.: 334/5790/0213
> USt-IdNr.: DE 125919505
> Geschäftsführer: Heinz Fischer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Dale Haydel [mailto:[email protected]]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Mai 2015 18:47
> An: Audiotec Fischer Team
> Betreff: A question from Dale Haydel (Audiotec Fischer GmbH) [Scanned by Avira Exchange Security]
> 
> Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> A customer, Dale Haydel, has a question about: HELIX DSP - HP58209.
> I'm considering getting a DSP but I'm concerned about the RCA input voltage. My head unit preamp out is rated at 5V (Pioneer DEX-99RS). Is this too high of an input voltage?
> Thanks,
> Dale
> Here is the product link:
> 
> HELIX DSP
> 
> Regards, your Audiotec Fischer GmbH Team
> 
> Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg
> Germany
> 
> Tel.: +49 2972 97880
> Fax: +49 2972 978888
> E-Mail: [email protected]
> Internet: Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio
> 
> So I guess it is back to researching different DSP's. Any thoughts on what to look at next? The Helix was the perfect size too! I know the 99 at full out is 5v but at that level am I at ear drum blowing out volume? The Helix does have a clipping indicator. What type of display is volume shown on the 99? Is it bars or a number. Couldn't I set up to find out what that max indication is and just stay below it? What to do, what to do???


I would imagine a similar response if you asked any speaker manufacturer if its okay to use a 200 watt amp on their 150 watt speaker. They do have to cover themselves. But like you said, dont go Spinal Tap on it. LOL


----------



## Mr Orange

LaserSVT said:


> I would imagine a similar response if you asked any speaker manufacturer if its okay to use a 200 watt amp on their 150 watt speaker. They do have to cover themselves. But like you said, dont go Spinal Tap on it. LOL


Very good point. Ah yes it's when the lawyers become involved. But the solution has been reached with navarr's assistance, 62 = 11. :thumbsup: So I've ordered a Helix DSP Pro. I should have it early next week. Actually I guess it's time I started my own build thread.


----------



## bigjig

when playing through the USB off a standalone HD, do all the files have to be in the same format? or can you have an assorted collection of wav and mp3 files?


----------



## Edmg4889

You can have different formats, but only ALAC will actually use the DAC in the P99RS for conversion. Everything else will be LPCM which means the iPod will do the decoding and send it in a digital file to the HU. Sound quality in ALAC is very good if the system is tuned right due to the fact that the HU has some amazing DAC's


----------



## gijoe

Edmg4889 said:


> You can have different formats, but only ALAC will actually use the DAC in the P99RS for conversion. Everything else will be LPCM which means the iPod will do the decoding and send it in a digital file to the HU. Sound quality in ALAC is very good if the system is tuned right due to the fact that the HU has some amazing DAC's


Are you sure about that? My manual is in French, but I can pull up a PDF online.


----------



## Edmg4889

im sure. But do t have to take my word for it, contact pioneer and they'll tell you the same. That's how I got my information, directly from them. ALAC is the way to go&#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57339;


----------



## gijoe

But, even if the ipod does the decoding and sends a digital file to the P99RS, the P99RS still has to do a DA conversion. Unless I'm missing something, if the source is connected to the P99RS via USB, the P99RS must do DA conversion. Regardless of the file format the data is going through the P99RS DAC.


----------



## David Mercado

So now you have the iPods inferior, by far I might add, DAC doing the actual conversion, sending it LPCM to the HU, then the HU has to do DA conversion again from a source that is already inferior. The one that does the conversion 1st sets the standard, so it doesn't matter now that the HU is doing conversion. Garbage in, garbage out. Also, now your converting twice, and anytime your converting, there is signal degradation. If you use ALAC, you're not doing any DA conversion in iPod, you're just sending a raw digital bitstream to the HU, and the HU is taking care of everything. So you're using a much better DAC, you're only converting once, and since all conversion is done in the HU, the signal path is so much shorter that you get better sound. ALAC is the way to go, everything else is inferior in this particular HU.


----------



## gijoe

I wasn't commenting on what was inferior/superior, I was simply pointing out that this claim was wrong, " but only ALAC will actually use the DAC in the P99RS for conversion." Any digital format that is sent to the P99RS will use the DAC in the head unit.

I agree though that ALAC is the way to go, that's what I use, but to say that ALAC is the only file type that will go through the P99RS DAC is simply wrong.

Additionally, in modern equipment, the DAC is not going to be the weak link. I agree that avoiding multiple conversions is ideal, but the DAC in an ipod is going to be very respectable, and even if it measures more poorly than the DAC in the P99RS, it isn't going to be a problem.


----------



## Magic Hands

I have a p99rs and I'd like to add a 12 disc changer. Does anyone know which one I would need that would connect to the p99rs? ....with music played though the disc changer, will the source signal be as clean as when played through the p99 itself? 

Thanks.


----------



## gijoe

Magic Hands said:


> I have a p99rs and I'd like to add a 12 disc changer. Does anyone know which one I would need that would connect to the p99rs? ....with music played though the disc changer, will the source signal be as clean as when played through the p99 itself?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't see the point when you could use an ipod loaded with lossless files. You'll get more albums, take up less space, and not sacrifice sound quality.


----------



## Magic Hands

oh wow... for real? I guess I'm stuck in the 90's  

I gotta figure out how to get these files on an ipod. Can I convert all my CD's to lossless? And the signal quality with be the same going through the ipod/usb cable.... as if I was playing a CD through the p99rs? 

Thanks!


----------



## gijoe

Magic Hands said:


> oh wow... for real? I guess I'm stuck in the 90's
> 
> I gotta figure out how to get these files on an ipod. Can I convert all my CD's to lossless? And the signal quality with be the same going through the ipod/usb cable.... as if I was playing a CD through the p99rs?
> 
> Thanks!


In iTunes you can rip your CDs to Apple Lossless (ALAC). The files will be bit for bit the same as a CD. The digital file will be sent via USB to the P99RS which has great digital to analog converters. I can say with confidence that it will sound every bit as good as a CD, you will be able to carry a ton of music, and you'll only need a single cable from the iPod to the deck.


----------



## Magic Hands

gijoe, you just saved me a lot of money and headache. THANKS BRO!!!!! 
I'm just getting back into the game after a 20 year hiatus.
I'm guessing I can use my iphone instead of an ipod?


----------



## gijoe

Magic Hands said:


> gijoe, you just saved me a lot of money and headache. THANKS BRO!!!!!
> I'm just getting back into the game after a 20 year hiatus.
> I'm guessing I can use my iphone instead of an ipod?


I don't know which iPhones are compatible, but I use the newest generation iPod touch in it without issues.


----------



## Magic Hands

I have the latest iPhone so I'm guessing that will work.... and i have 65 gig's still available. Thanks!


----------



## quality_sound

All iPhones and iPods will work except maybe the first two generations of iPods. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LaserSVT

Now I can play with the kewl kids! Mine has been ordered.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Just bought my new iPhone 6 on Saturday and attempted to use Spotify via the P99RS with the lightning cable attached to USB input. Works like a charm and sounds great, wow I am excited. Even lets me skip tracks just like on my iPad 2. Woohoo!!!


----------



## LaserSVT

So very very happy. Now if I can just get that trim ring to sit right......




Had to use the decks ring to get a proper fit it seems.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Though the 80PRS is no slouch, the P99RS is a nice upgrade right? Still loving mine as much and more than the day I got it


----------



## LaserSVT

The 80 is a wonderful deck but I thought its performance would be much closer. It is not.


----------



## SkizeR

how much of a difference did you notice just by switching?


----------



## LaserSVT

Tons. It is much better sounding by a large amount.


----------



## SkizeR

LaserSVT said:


> Tons. It is much better sounding by a large amount.


or is it just psycho-acoustics at work?


----------



## gijoe

SkizeR said:


> or is it just psycho-acoustics at work?


This certainly plays a big role. The 99 is beautiful looking, the controls feel more solid, and just the cost alone warrants a perceived improvement. It is a "better" head unit, but the 80 is no joke either.


----------



## Tnutt19

The p99 is light years better than the 80 having dealt with both. Not comparable at all. Not a big fan of the 80 but the p99 I love!


----------



## gijoe

Tnutt19 said:


> The p99 is light years better than the 80 having dealt with both. Not comparable at all. Not a big fan of the 80 but the p99 I love!


They are very comparable, I have also used both, as well as the 880prs. Yes the P99 has more features, and looks nicer, but if you are running a standard 2-way plus sub I don't see the P99 offering any real sonic advantages. It looks better, feels better, and has more features but I don't think there is a huge difference (if any) sonically (assuming both units are running the same setup).


----------



## Bayboy

Apples & oranges. 3-way vs 4-way and the competency of either to accomplish what they were designed for, not what one may try to coax beyond its intended use deemed by the manufacturer. Then subtract cost difference & bias and what you have is neither comes close to being the end all be all but a clean enough unit to base a system off of whether alone or expanded through further outside electronic manipulation (your choice of poison). I do believe the comparisons are detailed on this forum.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

gijoe said:


> They are very comparable, I have also used both, as well as the 880prs. Yes the P99 has more features, and looks nicer, but if you are running a standard 2-way plus sub I don't see the P99 offering any real sonic advantages. It looks better, feels better, and has more features but I don't think there is a huge difference (if any) sonically (assuming both units are running the same setup).


I had identical setups in my Jeep and my truck, both 2-way with the same tweeters, same mids, same amps, same sub, same gain settings, same xover points, etc. 80PRS in the Jeep, P99 in my truck. Only Helen Keller would have thought they sounded the same


----------



## SkizeR

Architect7 said:


> I had identical setups in my Jeep and my truck, both 2-way with the same tweeters, same mids, same amps, same sub, same gain settings, same xover points, etc. 80PRS in the Jeep, P99 in my truck. Only Helen Keller would have thought they sounded the same


yeah i heard her hearing isnt that good. the lady probably couldnt even hear the differences between RCA cables


----------



## 2010hummerguy

LOL

Everyone's hearing is different. I attribute it to the more precise EQ, possibly better auto-EQ/TA though I thought the 80PRS did a better job at the Auto TA than the P99...P99 didn't really get it right unless I either played around with distances OR and this is a huge percentage of luck, but pointing the calibration mic just ever so slightly to the right and down put my soundstage wayyyyyy up high and center even without dedicated mids. A few members on here have heard it and told me I would not benefit much from going 3-way up front, that's how high it is, even with a 3khz crossover. And GM put the mids in these trucks wayyyy down low. I also noticed that even when I had identical everything including tweeters, mids, amps, xover points/slopes and TA distances, soundstage with the 80PRS was centered and pin-point exact while the P99 is wide and open. I'm sure there is a measurable spec for that but I'm no sound engineer so not sure what could create that. Either way, I prefer the wide open stage vs. pinpoint. Again, my ears are different than others and did not mean for my Helen Keller post to be offensive to anyone, just my own experience. And I'm not one to subscribe to audiophoolery very easily, still rocking factory speaker wire and compressed music 90% of the time  I do wish the P99 had Bluetooth built in like the 80PRS, 80PRS Bluetooth sound quality is the best I've heard in any deck ever.


----------



## LaserSVT

It is not psycho somatic. Since the dash was apart and I had dual pre wired GM plugs I swapped the PRS80 back in after zeroing the P99 (forgot I could hit the reset button....doh!) because I was suprised how much better it sounded.
Both decks auto EQ off, TA off, EQ flat, sub set at -5 and 80hz @12db, mids at 100hz 12db and 2500hz 18db and tweeters high passed at 2500 with a 24db slope. Same CD. Took 5 minutes to swap decks so I heard them back to back. Sonicly the 99 is far superior. Two way active and it has much more processor to use than the 80 has.

I do need to readjust my amp gains as the 99 is definitely sending more voltage out.


----------



## gijoe

Can anyone tell me how well the P99 handles music from a flash drive or external hard drive?

I have been using a 160GB ipod classic, but it's on it's last leg, and buying a new one is silly with the prices now that they are discontinued. My 64GB touch just isn't enough for me, so I plan on using a non-ipod solution.

I'm worried about not having as much control with regard to selecting specific artists/albums/songs, and I'm wondering if a flash drive will be as quick as the ipod was. Also, what's the best way to organize the music? Do you need folders for artists and albums, do you need to put everything in a root folder with a specific name?


----------



## LaserSVT

SkizeR said:


> or is it just psycho-acoustics at work?


Next time you accuse me of that I am taking a leak on your Scan Speaks.


----------



## LaserSVT

gijoe said:


> Can anyone tell me how well the P99 handles music from a flash drive or external hard drive?
> 
> I have been using a 160GB ipod classic, but it's on it's last leg, and buying a new one is silly with the prices now that they are discontinued. My 64GB touch just isn't enough for me, so I plan on using a non-ipod solution.
> 
> I'm worried about not having as much control with regard to selecting specific artists/albums/songs, and I'm wondering if a flash drive will be as quick as the ipod was. Also, what's the best way to organize the music? Do you need folders for artists and albums, do you need to put everything in a root folder with a specific name?


I just have mine with different artists and then various playlists. It finds everything quickly and works well. My only issue is sometime I stat it up and it says ERROR 19 and i have to unplug and plug in my USB card again. Not sure whats up with that. Also sometime it just starts the card over instead of going back to where it left off like it normally does.
Its a Verbatium micro 16gb and worked fine with the 80PRS.


----------



## gijoe

LaserSVT said:


> I just have mine with different artists and then various playlists. It finds everything quickly and works well. My only issue is sometime I stat it up and it says ERROR 19 and i have to unplug and plug in my USB card again. Not sure whats up with that. Also sometime it just starts the card over instead of going back to where it left off like it normally does.
> Its a Verbatium micro 16gb and worked fine with the 80PRS.


Hmm, that's not encouraging. When you search, do you still have the ability to press the "DISP" button to scroll through by letter?

My ipod touch works fairly well, but it doesn't work as well as the classic did. The touch has a delay when switching tracks that the classic didn't have, it also likes to continue to display the previous song's information well into the next track.


----------



## ZaiLH

how do i stop the screen from changing between black and white? is this some demo mode? i know i had this on another pioneer unit some years back but can remember how i disabled it...


----------



## quality_sound

Refer to page 35 of your manual for "reverse mode".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra

Guys.. I need to replace the flex ribbon to the screen and volume knob (not always working when I turn the knob) do you guys know the part numbers for these and where I can get them from?

And if anyone has a service manual for this HU it would be greatly appreciated...


----------



## avanti1960

Elektra said:


> Guys.. I need to replace the flex ribbon to the screen and volume knob (not always working when I turn the knob) do you guys know the part numbers for these and where I can get them from?
> 
> And if anyone has a service manual for this HU it would be greatly appreciated...


before you replace the ribbon, try cleaning the contacts of the multi-pin connector between the faceplate and the unit. Use q-tips and rubbing alcohol. 
I have had to do this a few times a year and it never fails to restore connection.


----------



## Elektra

avanti1960 said:


> before you replace the ribbon, try cleaning the contacts of the multi-pin connector between the faceplate and the unit. Use q-tips and rubbing alcohol.
> I have had to do this a few times a year and it never fails to restore connection.


Thanks for the tip.. Must I strip the radio? Or can this be done in the car with no stripping?


----------



## avanti1960

Elektra said:


> Thanks for the tip.. Must I strip the radio? Or can this be done in the car with no stripping?


in car. just take the face plate off as if you were storing it for anti-theft reasons and clean each mating side of the connector


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

ZaiLH said:


> how do i stop the screen from changing between black and white? is this some demo mode? i know i had this on another pioneer unit some years back but can remember how i disabled it...


When the unit is turned off, hold the centre button on the remote. It'll open up a menu,scroll until you see reverse mode and turn it off.


----------



## SkizeR

anyone ever have issues with the remote not working? i tried using mine for the first time the other day (it has never even been opened before that) and nothing. maybe dead battery right out of the box? also, after about 20 seconds of idling, the display goes from black with white text, to white with black text. how do i get it to stop doing this. i cant really find anything in the manual


----------



## narvarr

SkizeR said:


> anyone ever have issues with the remote not working? i tried using mine for the first time the other day (it has never even been opened before that) and nothing. maybe dead battery right out of the box? also, after about 20 seconds of idling, the display goes from black with white text, to white with black text. how do i get it to stop doing this. i cant really find anything in the manual


This was covered a few posts up, and your remote battery is probably dead.  


quality_sound said:


> Refer to page 35 of your manual for "reverse mode".
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

narvarr said:


> This was covered a few posts up, and your remote battery is probably dead.


**** lol. did i ask this like a month ago and not even remember? jesus christ i need to sleep more


----------



## narvarr

SkizeR said:


> **** lol. did i ask this like a month ago and not even remember? jesus christ i need to sleep more


You didn't ask but someone else did. No worries, we got you covered.


----------



## Mr Orange

So the 99 is in and running and even with just a basic flat tune it sounds great.  









Now my problem. I did a search first and couldn't find anything. I've been through the initial setting but I must still have something set wrong. My display is cycling from black...









to white...and back again every ~30 seconds and it never stops.









What is causing this? 










I found my answer a few threads up...:blush:


----------



## piyush7243

Mr Orange said:


> So the 99 is in and running and even with just a basic flat tune it sounds great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now my problem. I did a search first and couldn't find anything. I've been through the initial setting but I must still have something set wrong. My display is cycling from black...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to white...and back again every ~30 seconds and it never stops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is causing this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found my answer a few threads up...:blush:


Please check previous page. You will have to disable Reverse mode

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Orange

piyush7243 said:


> Please check previous page. You will have to disable Reverse mode
> 
> Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


Found my answer in thread 836. Thanks CoLd_FuSiOn! :beerchug:


----------



## LaserSVT

LOL @ the same question 3 times on the same page. I can understand not wanting to read the whole thread but at least read the last post. LOL

Nick! Take a nap.


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

SkizeR said:


> anyone ever have issues with the remote not working? i tried using mine for the first time the other day (it has never even been opened before that) and nothing. maybe dead battery right out of the box? also, after about 20 seconds of idling, the display goes from black with white text, to white with black text. how do i get it to stop doing this. i cant really find anything in the manual


This...



CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> When the unit is turned off, hold the centre button on the remote. It'll open up a menu,scroll until you see reverse mode and turn it off.



Either the battery is dead or you've used a wrong battery in the remote,this one uses a slightly different rated model than the other pioneer remotes. Hope this helps...


----------



## gijoe

One thing I've noticed about the remote is that it has difficulty sometimes when the sun is hitting the sensor on the faceplate directly. It has only rarely been an issue, so my guess is that if the remote isn't working either the battery is dead, or it's in upside down (I've done that before, whoops!)


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

Mr Orange said:


> Found my answer in thread 836. Thanks CoLd_FuSiOn! :beerchug:


You're more than welcome bro.. 



gijoe said:


> One thing I've noticed about the remote is that it has difficulty sometimes when the sun is hitting the sensor on the faceplate directly. It has only rarely been an issue, so my guess is that if the remote isn't working either the battery is dead, or it's in upside down (I've done that before, whoops!)


My money's on the former...


----------



## arrakian

Mr Orange said:


>


Mr. Orange,
What make is the dash kit you have, and what does the lock/unlock button operate?


----------



## Mr Orange

arrakian said:


> Mr. Orange,
> What make is the dash kit you have, and what does the lock/unlock button operate?


The bezel is made by Scosche and the switches are as indicated for the door locks and hazard flashers. Be advised that this is made for a Focus ST1. The stock connector has to be rewired to fit this piece. There is no replacement kit for the ST2/3. I got mine on Ebay for $99.
Radio Stereo Installation Mounting Dash Kit DD Scosche FD6200B | eBay


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

Can anyone tell me their experiences with particular hard drives that work perfectly with the p99 and ordered from amazon with the links?

The more the merrier and preferable something durable,but the most important factor being that it is tried and tested since I don't intend to order a hard drive and then find out that it's not working with the head unit.


----------



## beehiveramesh

Elektra said:


> Thanks for the tip.. Must I strip the radio? Or can this be done in the car with no stripping?


Did the cleaning help in restoring the functionality of the vol control knob ?


----------



## Hanatsu

CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> Can anyone tell me their experiences with particular hard drives that work perfectly with the p99 and ordered from amazon with the links?
> 
> The more the merrier and preferable something durable,but the most important factor being that it is tried and tested since I don't intend to order a hard drive and then find out that it's not working with the head unit.


I've tried three hard drives, one 120GB SSD and two different 500GB drives - all of them worked. However, I wouldn't recommend it. Sorting music properly is near impossible and access is slow. I think all drives will work more or less as long as you format them with FAT32 filesystem and have an external power source.

iPod/iPhone storage is sooo much better. If you store in high quality mp3s you can fit 5000-6000 songs on a 64GB unit.

Edit: You might need to partition the disk if its' above 250GB (or so) for some reason, I remember I had to do this, otherwise you might get some fault code "no audio...".


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

Hanatsu said:


> I've tried three hard drives, one 120GB SSD and two different 500GB drives - all of them worked. However, I wouldn't recommend it. Sorting music properly is near impossible and access is slow. I think all drives will work more or less as long as you format them with FAT32 filesystem and have an external power source.
> 
> iPod/iPhone storage is sooo much better. If you store in high quality mp3s you can fit 5000-6000 songs on a 64GB unit.
> 
> Edit: You might need to partition the disk if its' above 250GB (or so) for some reason, I remember I had to do this, otherwise you might get some fault code "no audio...".


Thanks, do you remember which brand and model they were? 

Sent from my One Plus One using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

WD Green in an external case, I have no idea the type of usb/sata chip it is in those...

Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra

Guys I am having a problem with Pioneer HUs in general - I have a BNIB P90RS, P99RS, RS-D7Xii

When using the AUX function on all of these radios - the right channel is about 75% lower in output compared to the left.. Using IPBUS to RCA cable - CD-RB20 - has anyone experienced this? 

I suspect a design fault on the board - how can all 3 HU measure exactly the same on both channels? 

Has anyone got the service manuals for these radios?


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn

Elektra said:


> Guys I am having a problem with Pioneer HUs in general - I have a BNIB P90RS, P99RS, RS-D7Xii
> 
> When using the AUX function on all of these radios - the right channel is about 75% lower in output compared to the left.. Using IPBUS to RCA cable - CD-RB20 - has anyone experienced this?
> 
> I suspect a design fault on the board - how can all 3 HU measure exactly the same on both channels?
> 
> Has anyone got the service manuals for these radios?


I'm using an adaptor myself and it works fine , there's probably an issue with your adaptor cable or your auxiliary cable. 

Sent from my One Plus One using Tapatalk


----------



## Elektra

CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> I'm using an adaptor myself and it works fine , there's probably an issue with your adaptor cable or your auxiliary cable.
> 
> Sent from my One Plus One using Tapatalk


Ok... So I used a scope to measure the left and right signal coming into to HU and what is coming out - IPBUS in and IPBUS out to DSP both the signal coming in and out the IPBUS measure the same on the board. 

But.... If you measure on the RCA plugs (both HU and DSP) the right channel is significantly less than the left.. So somewhere on the board going to the RCA plugs the signal is lost.. 

So it's not the cable as it measures equal both sides, it's not anything to do with the IPBUS coming in and out the radio (ODR and P90 to RS-P70x) it's not the DSP as its doing the same on the P99 and P90 HU RCA outputs it's not the DSP as I tested the DEQ P90 as well..

Considering one HU (P90) is brand new and the P99 is about 2 years old and the ODR is about 7 years old - they all measure EXACTLY the same...

Before with the P90 combo the stage would shift when selecting CD and AUX - using the CD-RB20 (original part - also new) the cable is King Cobra RCA cables tried and tested multiple times before..


----------



## avanti1960

posting a quick update- the DEX P99 is still rocking on and sounding better than ever! 

System was sounding a little flat so I did a quick RTA using my laptop and True RTA software. 
Whoa! The lower treble region was down in the mix some 15 db! Apparantly the result of lots of on-the-fly daily EQ adjusting. 
I lowered the midbass driver levels and adjusted the EQ so that I was running an "Andy Curve" basically +10 db 20 to 60hz, taper down to flat at 160Hz, then flat until 2Khz with a slight taper (~ 1-db per octave) down from 2K. 

MUCH BETTER! Rule of thumb- not a bad idea to check your sound with RTA every once in a while. 

Another tweak- the image was shifted slightly "left" and would not center with balance or level adjustments. 
So I adjusted the time alignment by adding distance to all of the right channels by equal amounts- basically five up clicks on each driver until the sound was centered. It only took one adjustment and everything was fine.

Since the front right drivers were all phase / time aligned to each other, adjusting all of them together shifted the center image and maintained their relative phase to each other. 

Sounds AWESOME!


----------



## Hanatsu

avanti1960 said:


> Apparantly the result of lots of on-the-fly daily EQ adjusting.


Dangerous to have a "on-the-fly" EQ available sometimes...


----------



## benny z

Picked one of these up to finally replace my OEM source unit (after 5.5 years running it and swearing I'd not replace it). I use Zapco DC reference amps and am using this to further fine tune with the graphic EQ. Holy crap, I thought my center image was focused before - now it's pin-point accurate across the spectrum.


----------



## Coppertone

Darn that looks right at home installed in there.


----------



## Socalstangman

Does anyone use this deck with the Ford SYNC set up?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

I had a really strange thing happen with my P99 last week. I'm sitting at a stoplight on my way home from work and the P99 screen goes dark but music keeps playing. It wouldn't respond to any buttons and jiggling the faceplate didn't do anything. When I got home I shut off my truck, removed the key, then put the key back to ACC and the P99 came back on with no issues as if the screen shutdown/lockout never happened. Anyone seen this happen before? It hasn't happened since, super weird...


----------



## piyush7243

Architect7 said:


> I had a really strange thing happen with my P99 last week. I'm sitting at a stoplight on my way home from work and the P99 screen goes dark but music keeps playing. It wouldn't respond to any buttons and jiggling the faceplate didn't do anything. When I got home I shut off my truck, removed the key, then put the key back to ACC and the P99 came back on with no issues as if the screen shutdown/lockout never happened. Anyone seen this happen before? It hasn't happened since, super weird...


This happens when the connector of the faceplate or the hu gets carbon deposit. Clean connectors on both the faceplate n hu with a mild solvent. This should fix it 

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2010hummerguy

piyush7243 said:


> This happens when the connector of the faceplate or the hu gets carbon deposit. Clean connectors on both the faceplate n hu with a mild solvent. This should fix it
> 
> Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


Piyush, THANK YOU!!! I was scared my beloved HU was slowly dying. Hope you've been well!


----------



## piyush7243

Architect7 said:


> Piyush, THANK YOU!!! I was scared my beloved HU was slowly dying. Hope you've been well!


Things off-late have not been rosy but getting into the groove slowly. Hope there are better times ahead. Also few more days and i will be in touch for something that i have to give to you.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

piyush7243 said:


> Things off-late have not been rosy but getting into the groove slowly. Hope there are better times ahead. Also few more days and i will be in touch for something that i have to give to you.


I like the sound of that! Good to hear things are picking up for you, I am sure it is because you are doing something you love


----------



## bertholomey

I have a quick question that someone might be willing to give me a quick answer  if not....I guess you can just tell me to read the entire thread 

I just bought a very, very cool FiiO X5ii and I want to hook it up to the P99. Not as a main source, just every once in a while.....for fun. 

I thought I could turn on Aux1 in the menu, hook a stereo plug (not sure of the mm) from the headphone out to the aux jack on the edge of the faceplate when it is open......Fail. My stereo plug is too big (I can hear a, 'that's what she said!' right there). 

What size is this plug in on the faceplate.....is there an easy adaptor to step from the stereo plug down to this size. OR........the Aux 2 on the back of the 99......I believe there is an adaptor for that that might take stereo RCA? My X5ii can send coax out.....is there any options for that? 

I know I just need to research this, but my curiosity is higher than my available time at the moment. If someone has already crunched this problem - that would be awesome to get a shortcut


----------



## piyush7243

bertholomey said:


> I have a quick question that someone might be willing to give me a quick answer  if not....I guess you can just tell me to read the entire thread
> 
> I just bought a very, very cool FiiO X5ii and I want to hook it up to the P99. Not as a main source, just every once in a while.....for fun.
> 
> I thought I could turn on Aux1 in the menu, hook a stereo plug (not sure of the mm) from the headphone out to the aux jack on the edge of the faceplate when it is open......Fail. My stereo plug is too big (I can hear a, 'that's what she said!' right there).
> 
> What size is this plug in on the faceplate.....is there an easy adaptor to step from the stereo plug down to this size. OR........the Aux 2 on the back of the 99......I believe there is an adaptor for that that might take stereo RCA? My X5ii can send coax out.....is there any options for that?
> 
> I know I just need to research this, but my curiosity is higher than my available time at the moment. If someone has already crunched this problem - that would be awesome to get a shortcut


You can easily get a 3.5mm to 2.5mm converter. As p99 has a odd 2.5mm size

Something like this 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00U1...mm+adapter&dpPl=1&dpID=41fwa-9MnYL&ref=plSrch

Sadly no coax for p99



Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## bertholomey

piyush7243 said:


> You can easily get a 3.5mm to 2.5mm converter. As p99 has a odd 2.5mm size
> 
> Something like this
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00U1...mm+adapter&dpPl=1&dpID=41fwa-9MnYL&ref=plSrch
> 
> Sadly no coax for p99
> 
> Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


Awesome! Thank you very much for the link  Extremely helpful!


----------



## derickveliz

avanti1960 said:


> posting a quick update- the DEX P99 is still rocking on and sounding better than ever!
> 
> Rule of thumb- not a bad idea to check your sound with RTA every once in a while.
> 
> Sounds AWESOME!


*I agree 100%* :thumbsup:

D.


----------



## derickveliz

Ok, so I've been tuning for a while and I was just about to hit *the sweet spot*, when I thought about turning the Auto EQ "on" ... *BAN! the Sweet spot came alive!*

I've done this before and most of the time doesn't sounds right, either boomy and/or harsh, wonder why when my tuning was getting really good the Auto EQ gave me that extra step and made the stage rich that sweet spot.

Anybody has an idea if the Auto EQ is a default setting in the P99 or it's really driven by the mic and the Auto Tune?

*Cheers! to all P99 owners and how fortunate we are.*

D.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Thump!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

derickveliz said:


> Ok, so I've been tuning for a while and I was just about to hit *the sweet spot*, when I thought about turning the Auto EQ "on" ... *BAN! the Sweet spot came alive!*
> 
> I've done this before and most of the time doesn't sounds right, either boomy and/or harsh, wonder why when my tuning was getting really good the Auto EQ gave me that extra step and made the stage rich that sweet spot.
> 
> Anybody has an idea if the Auto EQ is a default setting in the P99 or it's really driven by the mic and the Auto Tune?
> 
> *Cheers! to all P99 owners and how fortunate we are.*
> 
> D.


Yes, Auto EQ is performed via test tones and the mic to flatten the frequency response in the installed vehicle. No default EQ settings used, it requires actual measurements to make the final adjustments that make it sound so good


----------



## Babs

derickveliz said:


> Anybody has an idea if the Auto EQ is a default setting in the P99 or it's really driven by the mic and the Auto Tune?
> 
> *Cheers! to all P99 owners and how fortunate we are.*
> 
> D.


It's driven by mic reading into Pioneer's algorithm. Once you run auto-EQ on the 99RS, I'll bet you can't see the "auto-EQ" trims, like the 80PRS, which is a shame.


----------



## derickveliz

Babs said:


> It's driven by mic reading into Pioneer's algorithm. Once you run auto-EQ on the 99RS, I'll bet you can't see the "auto-EQ" trims, like the 80PRS, which is a shame.


That's what I though! thanks...

*Just curious to see pictures of the auto-EQ trims in the 80PRS, if you have some time please share!*

D.


----------



## Babs

derickveliz said:


> That's what I though! thanks...
> 
> *Just curious to see pictures of the auto-EQ trims in the 80PRS, if you have some time please share!*
> 
> D.


That's the thing.. You _can't_ see them. Unfortunate. I beat the pants off of it though with a mic and room eq wizard, and I'm a newb who barely knows how to tune, so I don't put much stock in it anyway.  But it was fun to mess with. 99RS might be better though.


----------



## derickveliz

Babs said:


> That's the thing.. You _can't_ see them. Unfortunate. I beat the pants off of it though with a mic and room eq wizard, and I'm a newb who barely knows how to tune, so I don't put much stock in it anyway.  But it was fun to mess with. 99RS might be better though.


I understand, I just wanted to see if you could take a couple of pictures of your 80PRS showing the auto-EQ trims, to see what are we missing 

D.


----------



## Babs

derickveliz said:


> I understand, I just wanted to see if you could take a couple of pictures of your 80PRS showing the auto-EQ trims, to see what are we missing
> 
> 
> 
> D.



Yeah can't see it. Can only turn it on or off. About like the 99RS. Very similar interfaces. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## claydo

So, you guys like the auto eq on the 99? I've never even tried it because the auto eq in my old 880 blew goats. Maybe I should give it a try, although I suspect I'll like my current eq better, but would be a fun experiment.


----------



## SkizeR

i havent even tried it. nor do i know how lol. wheres the fun in that though?


----------



## claydo

SkizeR said:


> i havent even tried it. nor do i know how lol. wheres the fun in that though?


I'm more or less just curious how much pioneers algorithms have changed since my 880.......I hope a lot, cos autotune on it sucked in every aspect. The 880 would place yer center above the instruments, and the eq was funky......


----------



## Babs

claydo said:


> I'm more or less just curious how much pioneers algorithms have changed since my 880.......I hope a lot, cos autotune on it sucked in every aspect. The 880 would place yer center above the instruments, and the eq was funky......



Can choose to turn off auto-EQ it easy enough. I suggest writing down your entire tune though just in case. TA/XO's/EQ, everything. It'll definitely change your TA and EQ and possibly phase settings. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## claydo

Yup....I would definitely record everything.....or not, lmao, and just start over again. I do that occasionally anyways......lol.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

The auto EQ/TA process has been vastly improved since the old 800/880. The results are beyond impressive, at least for me. TA is a little more of an issue, it took a few tries to get auto TA to work well for my setup but once I figured out that method the results are the best I've ever had and I haven't touched it in ~16 months.


----------



## Nickpisp

claydo said:


> the auto eq in my old 880 blew goats.


I don't see how that would help the SQ at all....


----------



## silent_riot

My p99rs remote needed some cleaning, so I made a guide on how to clean it: 
*
Cleaning the P99rs remote control*


----------



## claydo

Architect7 said:


> The auto EQ/TA process has been vastly improved since the old 800/880. The results are beyond impressive, at least for me. TA is a little more of an issue, it took a few tries to get auto TA to work well for my setup but once I figured out that method the results are the best I've ever had and I haven't touched it in ~16 months.


Ok, went back and tried it........uh, hell no........went from awesome to damn near unlistenable, lmao. The exact same results I had with the 880. So much for improved algorithms......I'm glad someone is having luck with it, but I'll stick with the manual tune.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Remember that mic placement and install are going to be huge variables as well. Also, if you are used to a certain sound signature, not much a flat response is going to do to change a subjective preference. Might be worth taking an RTA of your ear-tuned EQ settings just to see how it measures. Also, myself and others have been able to get much better calibration results by sitting in the driver's seat with the mic on my forehead (bridge of glasses), facing forward since the process then accounts for the listener which will improve both EQ and TA adjustments. But if you like it how it is right now, no reason to change.


----------



## claydo

No install problems, and I simply mounted the mic facing forward on my headrest. I then raised my seat back to the target area ( ears in line with the seat belt brackets ), then let it do its thing. The tune it gave me was wonky as hell, lol. Super diffuse, and no sort of center......phase was seriously jacked, and lacking any focus at all. Add to that a really, really bright tonality, and the subs very obviously behind me and you've got it. I know exactly what my normal ( for as long as I keep them, lol ) tunes look like on the rta..........maybe I'm just missing some sort of trick with the mic, or my p99 just sucks....lmao. Anyways, it was just an experiment, to see if I got different results than with my 880, and because I simply hadn't tried it even though the 99 has been in the car a while. The results were exactly what I remember from the old pioneer......and, no worries, I rather enjoy tuning myself, and usually have quite satisfactory results.....


----------



## gijoe

The auto EQ is just ok, basically the same as with the 880/800 and 80. I think it does a pretty decent job getting left and right EQ'd, but does a pretty bad job with overall tonality. The highs are always way too bright and it always turns the subs down way too low. Honestly though, since there are so many tuning features available on it, I think the auto EQ and TA are mostly just there to make sure they had a broad enough demographic to sell to. Without the auto features these head units (especially the 99) would really only be appealing to a very small group of people.


----------



## claydo

Werd, the auto tune features I believe are just there as an after thought, to broaden the appeal. When I bought the 880 years ago I was a bit overwhelmed at the tuning options.......but the auto results quickly inspired me to learn for myself. Fast forward to now and I find the 99 just barely has enough power to keep me happy......lol.


----------



## sqnut

claydo said:


> I'm more or less just curious how much pioneers algorithms have changed since my 880.......


They haven't changed much, the auto tune on the p99 sucks. But why would you buy a p99 if you wanted to auto tune


----------



## claydo

sqnut said:


> They haven't changed much, the auto tune on the p99 sucks. But why would you buy a p99 if you wanted to auto tune


I agree, but I think it's there for the guy browsing crutchfield buying the fanciest gear........"look, it even tunes itself!"


----------



## Joe r

Thank you for an amazing write up. You have made me want this unit even more!


Joe r


----------



## bertholomey

Hey dudes....got a question for you......

I have the P99RS....been enjoying it for several years. 

P99 operation manual

P99 Install Manual

I just bought a FiiO X5ii - going to have two 200GB micro SD cards in it - everything at 320 kbs AAC format. 

FiiO X5ii Users Manual

I would like to connect this to my P99 instead of using the two iPods I currently am using (that are only a fraction full because I haven't had time to load them through iTunes). 

I have tried using the 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter for Aux 1 in the faceplate....Yuck! I had to turn up the volume in the X5 all the way and turn the P99 up most of the way....then if the faceplate were to close while the adapter is connected.....that would be a huge fail! 

The X5 has coax/line out (3.5mm) - comes with a 3.5mm to coax female adapter that I can plug a digital coax cable to go from the X5 to a home DAC. 

Digital cable adapter

Somewhere I saw a photo of a 3.5mm coax to stereo (left / right) RCA - that I'm sure could be useful for the RCA connection for the Aux 2 adapter for the P99 

Pioneer adapter

I would hate to buy the 3.5mm to RCA cable, then the CDRB10 piece for the back of the unit, and then it sounds worse than the iPod....or worse, it sounds like the 3.5mm to 2.5mm connection in Aux 1

Can anyone speculate whether it would work to connect the micro USB to the full size USB connection in the rear of the P99? I wonder if it would work like an external hard drive - roaming through the folders with the P99 remote, or if I would still use the X5 to find the tracks I want to hear? 

cable like this

micro usb to USB cable

I know the easy answer is to fill up the iPods and use what I already have.....but to have 400 GB of music on one device would be nice. Then I could use the micro usb to USB cable to go into the cigarette lighter for charging the X5 on long trips.


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## CoLd_FuSiOn

bertholomey said:


> Hey dudes....got a question for you......
> 
> I have the P99RS....been enjoying it for several years.
> 
> P99 operation manual
> 
> P99 Install Manual
> 
> I just bought a FiiO X5ii - going to have two 200GB micro SD cards in it - everything at 320 kbs AAC format.
> 
> FiiO X5ii Users Manual
> 
> I would like to connect this to my P99 instead of using the two iPods I currently am using (that are only a fraction full because I haven't had time to load them through iTunes).
> 
> I have tried using the 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter for Aux 1 in the faceplate....Yuck! I had to turn up the volume in the X5 all the way and turn the P99 up most of the way....then if the faceplate were to close while the adapter is connected.....that would be a huge fail!
> 
> The X5 has coax/line out (3.5mm) - comes with a 3.5mm to coax female adapter that I can plug a digital coax cable to go from the X5 to a home DAC.
> 
> Digital cable adapter
> 
> Somewhere I saw a photo of a 3.5mm coax to stereo (left / right) RCA - that I'm sure could be useful for the RCA connection for the Aux 2 adapter for the P99
> 
> Pioneer adapter
> 
> I would hate to buy the 3.5mm to RCA cable, then the CDRB10 piece for the back of the unit, and then it sounds worse than the iPod....or worse, it sounds like the 3.5mm to 2.5mm connection in Aux 1
> 
> Can anyone speculate whether it would work to connect the micro USB to the full size USB connection in the rear of the P99? I wonder if it would work like an external hard drive - roaming through the folders with the P99 remote, or if I would still use the X5 to find the tracks I want to hear?
> 
> cable like this
> 
> micro usb to USB cable
> 
> I know the easy answer is to fill up the iPods and use what I already have.....but to have 400 GB of music on one device would be nice. Then I could use the micro usb to USB cable to go into the cigarette lighter for charging the X5 on long trips.


The only sure shot way is to find out by experimenting with it, if the player somehow manages to show itself as a mass storage device it just might work. IMHO though, i'd still prefer running either a USB drive/Hard drive or through an ipod since the p99 bypasses the ipod's DAC and processes the raw data itself.


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## Elektra

Hi Guys

Tell me has anyone experienced a problem with a full active system regarding supression? I have a strange problem in my car - if I connect all 4 RCA plugs I get engine noise but when I connect 3 RCA plugs I don't get engine noise 

If I swop the RCA cables around behind the HU the noisy RCA is no longer the noisy RCA? 

Have anyone encountered this before?


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## RattyMcClelland

I got my p99rs install last week.

- You can't turn off the stupid beep
- Build quality is absolutely appalling, loose and plastic. Definitely not high end and nothing compared to my drz9255.
- Sounds good
- ipod function is excellent
- it's not drz but ipod functions overrides everything.
- did I mention poor build quality, tacky rca plugs, remote made if cheese, head unit face moves a millimeter or too.
- menus are a pain
- processing is excellent


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## Coppertone

^^^. Can I ask if you've purchased this new in box ?


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## RattyMcClelland

2nd hand but mint condition.
Honestly I think it's cheaply made. I'm comparing it too my drz which imo is light years ahead quality wise, buttons feel better, remote is better, heavier and more solid.

Even my old cheap Sony CDX-F7710 was better made.

Despite all of this is does sound lovely. It's function is brilliant, form is lacking.


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## bertholomey

CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> The only sure shot way is to find out by experimenting with it, if the player somehow manages to show itself as a mass storage device it just might work. IMHO though, i'd still prefer running either a USB drive/Hard drive or through an ipod since the p99 bypasses the ipod's DAC and processes the raw data itself.


Well....limited success. Connected with a mini-USB to USB....the 200GB micro SD card that is in slot 1 shows on the P99 just like a thumb drive. The files I have on the card are in M4a - 320kbs, and the 99 has no issues playing these. Of course it wouldn't play a .dsf file I had on the card  

The 'limited' success part was primarily concerning only being able to access the card in slot 1 - can't access the card in slot 2. Which stands to reason.....when there is an update to the firmware - it gets loaded through slot 1.....so that is the slot that is 'tied' to the usb input.


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## michael92

RattyMcClelland said:


> I got my p99rs install last week.
> 
> - You can't turn off the stupid beep
> - Build quality is absolutely appalling, loose and plastic. Definitely not high end and nothing compared to my drz9255.
> - Sounds good
> - ipod function is excellent
> - it's not drz but ipod functions overrides everything.
> - did I mention poor build quality, tacky rca plugs, remote made if cheese, head unit face moves a millimeter or too.
> - menus are a pain
> - processing is excellent


Yeah I had similar experiences with the 80PRS. Felt worse than a $50 walmart head unit. 

It continues with my 8100NEX..that thing is horrible lol. 

Problem is, IMO Pioneer makes some of the best heads for the money so...it's like what do you do?


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## JVD240

Honestly, that's my experience with every modern HU right now. Once you touch and feel a DRZ nothing compares. People want better and better tech for less and less money. The world we live in.


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## michael92

Oh well I suppose. I mean the build quality could be better but I really enjoy the head unit apart from that....it could be faster though. Seriously..it's SLOOWWW.


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## RRizz

Has anyone here used a pc based program for tuning with the p99? I was curious if it is legit to use the aux input to plug in the mic preamp for tones/bursts (specifically for doing T/A setups) The whole pc tuning thing is new to me. I am in the process of assembling all the gear, and want to do it right...


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## piyush7243

RRizz said:


> Has anyone here used a pc based program for tuning with the p99? I was curious if it is legit to use the aux input to plug in the mic preamp for tones/bursts (specifically for doing T/A setups) The whole pc tuning thing is new to me. I am in the process of assembling all the gear, and want to do it right...


Yep can be done, i use REW n use the aux input on faceplate to run sine sweeps all the time

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## RRizz

thanks for the reply.


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## gijoe

piyush7243 said:


> Yep can be done, i use REW n use the aux input on faceplate to run sine sweeps all the time
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Just to clarify. You can use REW to take measurements, but you cannot use it to do the actual tuning. You still need to make the adjustments manually from the head unit, you cannot simply tune on the PC and upload the tune to the P99.


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## The Performer

RattyMcClelland said:


> I got my p99rs install last week.
> 
> - You can't turn off the stupid beep
> - Build quality is absolutely appalling, loose and plastic. Definitely not high end and nothing compared to my drz9255.
> - Sounds good
> - ipod function is excellent
> - it's not drz but ipod functions overrides everything.
> - did I mention poor build quality, tacky rca plugs, remote made if cheese, head unit face moves a millimeter or too.
> - menus are a pain
> - processing is excellent


I'll buy it from ya 50$ Then. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## RRizz

gijoe said:


> Just to clarify. You can use REW to take measurements, but you cannot use it to do the actual tuning. You still need to make the adjustments manually from the head unit, you cannot simply tune on the PC and upload the tune to the P99.


 Yes, I do understand that part. Just need/want to take a few measurements with it.


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## 2010hummerguy

michael92 said:


> Oh well I suppose. I mean the build quality could be better but I really enjoy the head unit apart from that....it could be faster though. Seriously..it's SLOOWWW.


Stay far away from the Eclipse CD7200 MKII, it makes the P99RS seem like a supercomputer.


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## gijoe

RRizz said:


> Yes, I do understand that part. Just need/want to take a few measurements with it.


Good, just making sure you understood that you can't really do PC based tuning in the way that many new DSPs can. You can use REW to measure, but not to tune. The tuning has to be done manually.


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## Crazy pete

Slightly off topic but can anyone tell me whether portable mp3 players such as Sony Walkman or iPods etc are compatible and can be connected to the 99rs via cdbt 200 Bluetooth adapter that is an option for the 99 ?
I have connected my cell phones with it but would like the option of purchasing a Bluetooth mp3 player and running it with the 99rs via the BT 200 adapter.


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## oabeieo

Crazy pete said:


> Slightly off topic but can anyone tell me whether portable mp3 players such as Sony Walkman or iPods etc are compatible and can be connected to the 99rs via cdbt 200 Bluetooth adapter that is an option for the 99 ?
> I have connected my cell phones with it but would like the option of purchasing a Bluetooth mp3 player and running it with the 99rs via the BT 200 adapter.


If it uses A2DP it will connect to the cdbt200 .


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## Crazy pete

Thanks I'm just having trouble sourcing a quality Bluetooth enabled mp3 player.


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## oabeieo

Crazy pete said:


> Thanks I'm just having trouble sourcing a quality Bluetooth enabled mp3 player.


Your phone will work just fine , once it's transmitted on A2DP the "high quality" signal goes poo poo anyway.


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## Crazy pete

Can anyone help here.
Was blasting my music about all of sudden smelt a slight burning sound in the car after a loud banging noise from the speakers . After lowering the volume put my ear to the speakers they all seem to be working. 
Have I burnt them or damaged in anyway ?


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## beginner

Hey guys, I've just joined to share my plans for an incremental system upgrade and HU is my first target. This unit has really got my eye at the moment but I am finding it absolutely impossible to find anything that tells me much about day to day use with the thing, I've read and watched plenty of videos that nicely detail the tuning and options and am convinced it sounds great, but not once have I seen anything about actually selecting and playing a track.

This is make or break for me as I have a reasonably large collection that I like being able to easily keep up to date on a USB and pick from whenever I want, but unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to test out a unit first hand. 

Hoping you guys might be able to help give me an idea of how it goes with a bigger library


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## oabeieo

beginner said:


> Hey guys, I've just joined to share my plans for an incremental system upgrade and HU is my first target. This unit has really got my eye at the moment but I am finding it absolutely impossible to find anything that tells me much about day to day use with the thing, I've read and watched plenty of videos that nicely detail the tuning and options and am convinced it sounds great, but not once have I seen anything about actually selecting and playing a track.
> 
> This is make or break for me as I have a reasonably large collection that I like being able to easily keep up to date on a USB and pick from whenever I want, but unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to test out a unit first hand.
> 
> Hoping you guys might be able to help give me an idea of how it goes with a bigger library



It's very decent from a flash drive , runs about 2mbps if i were to guess. Library shows up and can scroll fast through it.

And iPod with the old 30pin pbus adapter were trechorous , the usb on 30 pin adaptor is ok, again the old 30pin was one way fast one way slow , my iphone6 works great, and can scan just fine. 

I have a lot of 24/96 on flac on flash drives and it's fine


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## beginner

oabeieo said:


> It's very decent from a flash drive , runs about 2mbps if i were to guess. Library shows up and can scroll fast through it.
> 
> And iPod with the old 30pin pbus adapter were trechorous , the usb on 30 pin adaptor is ok, again the old 30pin was one way fast one way slow , my iphone6 works great, and can scan just fine.
> 
> I have a lot of 24/96 on flac on flash drives and it's fine


Awesome thanks mate. What's this about flac though? It can't can it?


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## 2010hummerguy

beginner said:


> Awesome thanks mate. What's this about flac though? It can't can it?


No but it can play full resolution WAV files. I know some people play WAV files from a USB hard drive. I use Spotify via iPhone, it works great with my iPhone 6 via USB to Lightning cable.

It's my favorite HU ever; I've never kept one this long, don't think I'll ever part with it either. It just works and sounds amazing in the process.


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## 2010hummerguy

Edit: Double post


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## beginner

Yeah that's cool, I can convert the flacs pretty used to it, now I'll have triples of half the collection  Was pretty tempted by the Sony which can do it, but then no display killed it for me. 

To be honest I've been a fan of MP3 for something like 20 years now, banishing optical media was my first priority and it's great to have devices everywhere allowing me to be free of it. But as my thirst for quality grows my patience for the format thins, and with all manner of storage so cheap these days I'd really prefer to just have everything in the one format regardless of the size. 

Anyway will make do with WAV, the usb mass media implementation sounds pretty slack but hopefully I'll get something rigged up to make preparation painless, just the usual and no deal breaker, in fact there was a brand new unit for sale at $3 over my budget, so I stretched and it's on its way 

Now I gotta sort out how I'm going to run this thing for now. I probably can't afford new speakers til end of the year / start of next, would I go alright ditching my rears and just running 2 way up front + subs?


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## avanti1960

Update 10/5/16
Still running the P99, no major hardware changes. Yesterday I turned off time alignment 
because I had been hearing slight phase / comb filtering noise when using FM. I don't use FM that often but when I do I expect it to sound better than most new OEM systems and honestly it didn't. 
So I turned off all TA and adjusted the levels to be equal left and right and then centered the image using the balance control. So far it is a smoother, easier to liste to sound with and extreme wide soundstage compared to the TA optimized "spot light" in the center of the windshield where most of the sound originated from. 
The new sound isn't perfect but I am enjoying it. 

I has also been noticing less bass impact- I may need to remove the door covers and see if my woofer screws are loose. My sub screws were definitely loose and tightening them also tightened the bass.


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## gijoe

avanti1960 said:


> Update 10/5/16
> Still running the P99, no major hardware changes. Yesterday I turned off time alignment
> because I had been hearing slight phase / comb filtering noise when using FM. I don't use FM that often but when I do I expect it to sound better than most new OEM systems and honestly it didn't.
> So I turned off all TA and adjusted the levels to be equal left and right and then centered the image using the balance control. So far it is a smoother, easier to liste to sound with and extreme wide soundstage compared to the TA optimized "spot light" in the center of the windshield where most of the sound originated from.
> The new sound isn't perfect but I am enjoying it.
> 
> I has also been noticing less bass impact- I may need to remove the door covers and see if my woofer screws are loose. My sub screws were definitely loose and tightening them also tightened the bass.


You should be using both balance and TA, they both work together and affect different frequency ranges. You will not get a realistic soundstage with balance alone.


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## Elektra

gijoe said:


> You should be using both balance and TA, they both work together and affect different frequency ranges. You will not get a realistic soundstage with balance alone.




Never thought of using the balance - I assume you referring to one or 2 clicks and no more? 

How much balance can be used without it affecting the spectral balance? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gijoe

Elektra said:


> Never thought of using the balance - I assume you referring to one or 2 clicks and no more?
> 
> How much balance can be used without it affecting the spectral balance?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The balance is adjusting output levels left to right. You can do this to each speaker, and you should be doing this with each speaker. Localizing high freqencies is dominated by amplitude (phase/TA does almost nothing up high) so if you want to tune tweeters you need to adjust their output and one will almost always be a couple dBs lower than the other. At low frequencies phase dominates, so TA is critical and amplitude has much less of an affect. 

Both are important and should be applied to all speakers, but it is far more important to use amplitude up high and phase down low.


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## domestos

Hello Everyone,

I am currently considering purchasing DEX-P99RS headunit and build simple system with JL Audio 600/6 amplifier, Morel Hybrid 605 2-way system and P 25F Focal Sub. 

THe question I asked to US Pioneer Customer Support was whether the ehadunit would cooperate with iPhone 7 as a sound source using accessory Pioneer cable with lightning connector. I would like to use iPhone 7 256 GB as from either looseless format from Itunes or using TIDAL app that provides FLAC file access. 

The answer was that it does not cooperate with iPhone 7 and that there is no guarantee it will work - it sound as if they have no idea if it will or will not work together. 

Could I please ask you folks to try if it would work together?


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## bundles78

I am not sure if anyone knows this, but onkyo HF Player for iOS plays a variety of HD music files, including flac. I have tested this player on my P99rs and it indeed is playing FLAC files through my stereo with titles and track control.


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## Arete

domestos said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am currently considering purchasing DEX-P99RS headunit and build simple system with JL Audio 600/6 amplifier, Morel Hybrid 605 2-way system and P 25F Focal Sub.
> 
> THe question I asked to US Pioneer Customer Support was whether the ehadunit would cooperate with iPhone 7 as a sound source using accessory Pioneer cable with lightning connector. I would like to use iPhone 7 256 GB as from either looseless format from Itunes or using TIDAL app that provides FLAC file access.
> 
> The answer was that it does not cooperate with iPhone 7 and that there is no guarantee it will work - it sound as if they have no idea if it will or will not work together.
> 
> Could I please ask you folks to try if it would work together?


The Tidal streaming service doesn't give you access to flac files but a library of high resolution music that you are streaming from there servers. I have done some checking on this service and the consensus seems to be that the quality isn't really worth the extra money you are paying in comparison to the other services out there. 

With itunes you aren't using Flac. Itunes isn't compatible with Flac but apple lossless or m4a. What most people do is convert from flac to apple lossless and then upload those files to there ipod or iphone. This can be played on the p99 with no problems whatsoever as far as I know. It plays just fine on my Pioneer 80 deck and it's a fraction of the cost of the p99.


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## bundles78

If you want to play FLAC on your P99, Use the Onkyo HF player on the app store. Once you upload all your FLAC files to your Iphone or Ipad in itunes, you can then use the HD feature in the Onkyo HF player to play back FLAC files on your P99rs. I have tested this to work on my own iPhone 6plus. i am not sure about the 7, but if the digital audio protocols are the same to maintain backwards compatibility with sound docks and such, then i imagine the 7 should work on the P99.


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## Elektra

bundles78 said:


> If you want to play FLAC on your P99, Use the Onkyo HF player on the app store. Once you upload all your FLAC files to your Iphone or Ipad in itunes, you can then use the HD feature in the Onkyo HF player to play back FLAC files on your P99rs. I have tested this to work on my own iPhone 6plus. i am not sure about the 7, but if the digital audio protocols are the same to maintain backwards compatibility with sound docks and such, then i imagine the 7 should work on the P99.




I don't really understand how this is possible as the P99 only plays 24/48bitrate as max... FLAC is much higher bitrate...

Somehow I think the Onkyo player reduces the bitrate to be compliant with IOS - I don't think it's true FLAC 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bundles78

to be honest, i am not sure either. but i have one piece of information that kinda proves i am correct. the main reason i tested this was i bought a chord mojo DAC/headphone amp. the chord plays any kind of music file from an ios device using the hf player. this includes DSD files. when playing Hi Res files through the ios device the chord lights upto indicate the bitrate/filetype. So i do know that my iphone outputs the filetype directly to the digital out. If for some reason it changes this scheme for connection to the P99rs, then i have no way to detect that right now. but as of right now it seems i am getting FLAC into my P99rs


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## cmusic

I'm using a Vox media player on my iPhone 7 to play 24/96 and 24/192 FLAC tracks to my P99. The P99's 24 bit DACs should be able to use a sample rate up to 48 Khz. The higher sampling rate tracks play just fine. I think the P99 is still using the 24 bits of the FLAC tracks but is down-sampling the rate to 48 Khz. I can hear a difference playing the same song from CD and from a 24/192 FLAC file I downloaded from HD Tracks. The HD track has a larger soundstage and more room between the instruments than the same track from a CD. 

I'm waiting on the upcoming Zapco HDR processors that will handle 24/192 FLAC straight in through a wifi connection. Last I heard they are supposed to be out in January or February.


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## Babs

Elektra said:


> I don't really understand how this is possible as the P99 only plays 24/48bitrate as max... FLAC is much higher bitrate...
> 
> Somehow I think the Onkyo player reduces the bitrate to be compliant with IOS - I don't think it's true FLAC
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


keep in mind the age of this model. a lot has changed since the 99RS hit the scene.


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## Elektra

Babs said:


> keep in mind the age of this model. a lot has changed since the 99RS hit the scene.




I suppose the acid test is to copy a FLAC file onto USB and see if it will play on a P99 and take the exact same file and play it on the iPhone - if it plays on both - great if not something isn't right on the iPhone...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2010hummerguy

Has anyone ever tried plugging an Android phone into the P99RS USB input? Is there possibly an app for Android that would make it work? I am getting really tired of iOS 10 crashing so much on my iPhone 6, no wonder Google now has 90% mobile OS market share.


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## juventus

Do you loose SQ when converting FLAC above 24/48 bit rate to WAV format (which 99rs supports)?


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## avanti1960

gijoe said:


> The balance is adjusting output levels left to right. You can do this to each speaker, and you should be doing this with each speaker. Localizing high freqencies is dominated by amplitude (phase/TA does almost nothing up high) so if you want to tune tweeters you need to adjust their output and one will almost always be a couple dBs lower than the other. At low frequencies phase dominates, so TA is critical and amplitude has much less of an affect.
> 
> Both are important and should be applied to all speakers, but it is far more important to use amplitude up high and phase down low.


I switched back to TA very shortly after running without it. Sounds the best with TA active. 
I think my phase interference issue was caused by the crossover settings. I now leave a small gap between the mid bass and midrange crossover frequency- e.g. 630Hz on the midbass, 80oHz on the midrange.


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## Joe r

Thank you for all the useful information. I am now on the hunt for one of these amazing head units.


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## Babs

Apartment is empty waiting for the new tenant.  Bumping over to the 99RS from an 80PRS. Will be anxious to see how much of a sonic upgrade it will be feeding a signal to the Helix DSP. I suspect as nice as the burr-browns in the 80PRS do, the significant upgrade in DAC's and preamp stage will be instantly noticeable. And also the faceplate and sheer classiness of it.  Excited. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Coppertone

I'm selling my Helix Pro and Director as well as my Zapco amp and swapping solely to a P99 for my Ram.


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## Joe r

Looking for one now. Hoping to trade my brand new bit one or brand new ps8.


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## 2010hummerguy

Babs said:


> Apartment is empty waiting for the new tenant.  Bumping over to the 99RS from an 80PRS. Will be anxious to see how much of a sonic upgrade it will be feeding a signal to the Helix DSP. I suspect as nice as the burr-browns in the 80PRS do, the significant upgrade in DAC's and preamp stage will be instantly noticeable. And also the faceplate and sheer classiness of it.  Excited.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I made the same upgrade a couple years ago, you will not regret it.


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## Jscoyne2

Youre telling me you can hear a difference between an 80prs and a p99rs?


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## Elektra

With the trends nowadays - just wondering if there will be any use for a P99 in say 3-5 years time... 

I mean with the Sony starting things rolling and now Helix DSP PRO2 with a USB input and 32bit dacs.... I doubt any new high end CD player will be released anytime soon...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

Jscoyne2 said:


> Youre telling me you can hear a difference between an 80prs and a p99rs?



I'll let ya know when I can. But I'm gonna bet most definitely. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Babs

Elektra said:


> With the trends nowadays - just wondering if there will be any use for a P99 in say 3-5 years time...
> 
> I mean with the Sony starting things rolling and now Helix DSP PRO2 with a USB input and 32bit dacs.... I doubt any new high end CD player will be released anytime soon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah I have a feeling the 99 will be the last of the great preamp-only SQ-oriented CD player head units. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Elektra

Babs said:


> Yeah I have a feeling the 99 will be the last of the great preamp-only SQ-oriented CD player head units.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Me too - I bought the new Sony and tried it side by side with my P99 and I have to say the Sony molested it properly....

Sold the P99 after that.... down side to the Sony is the need for a external DSP which makes the setup nearly twice as much as a P99...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

Elektra said:


> Me too - I bought the new Sony and tried it side by side with my P99 and I have to say the Sony molested it properly....
> 
> Sold the P99 after that.... down side to the Sony is the need for a external DSP which makes the setup nearly twice as much as a P99...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Right that's the thing.. I've heard stellar competition-worthy 99RS systems without external DSP's. the comparable Sony setup requires ext DSP, thus $2000 you're into it by then before amps. Ouchie!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Elektra

Babs said:


> Right that's the thing.. I've heard stellar competition-worthy 99RS systems without external DSP's. the comparable Sony setup requires ext DSP, thus $2000 you're into it by then before amps. Ouchie!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Soon prices will drop and you will be able to get the combo for $1500 more or less... the reality is for the extra coin it's worth it... 

CDs are a dying breed right now... they going to be like VHS and BETAMAX as soon you will be buying Hi-Res files at any music site as nowadays buying a CD for 2 decent tracks isn't worth it... when buying the 2 tracks in Hi-Res format cheaper is going to be the way we listen to music...

Also none of the OEM radio can be removed these days...


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## Jscoyne2

Eh. Idk. Im just nor buying that the 99rs sounds better than the 80prs. Or hell, skipping the headunit all together and direct usb to ext dsp.

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## Babs

Jscoyne2 said:


> Eh. Idk. Im just nor buying that the 99rs sounds better than the 80prs. Or hell, skipping the headunit all together and direct usb to ext dsp.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk



By itself the fidelity and output strength is great. Limiting factor is 31-band graphic which is easily surpassed by outbound DSP's like Helix, and having individual driver tuning verses just left and right. 

I'll report back once she's in my take on 99 vs 80


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## Elektra

I played with the 80 in my brothers car... it feels really cheap IMHO doesn't sound bad but I do believe the 99 does sound better and for the additional features over the 80 alone is worth the upgrade IMHO....


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## oabeieo

Elektra said:


> I played with the 80 in my brothers car... it feels really cheap IMHO doesn't sound bad but I do believe the 99 does sound better and for the additional features over the 80 alone is worth the upgrade IMHO....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have all three 

The 880 sounds better than the 80 the 99 sounds better than the 80 but the 880 sounds better than the 99 as far as dac goes IMO . That's subjective though


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## Jscoyne2

Then what about bypassing a HU altogether? Such as phone to ext dsp. How do the two most popular dsp(c-dsp and helix) DACs compare to the mentioned headunits.

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## Elektra

Jscoyne2 said:


> Then what about bypassing a HU altogether? Such as phone to ext dsp. How do the two most popular dsp(c-dsp and helix) DACs compare to the mentioned headunits.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk




Well look out for the DSP PRO 2 with 32bit dacs and USB input... no HU required...

Interesting prospect...


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## cmusic

I'm currently running a P99rs but I have loaded 192/24 and 96/24 FLAC tracks onto my iPhone. Even with the P99rs' 24 bit DACs I can tell an improvement in the spacial qualities of the music with the higher resolution tracks over CDs. I've also heard several Sony GS9s, and they do sound better than the P99rs, I feel the differences are more to do with the higher resolution recordings than the hardware itself. It's maybe a 70/30 split with 70% of the improvement going to the recording format and 30% going to the upgraded hardware of the GS9. 




Babs said:


> By itself the fidelity and output strength is great. Limiting factor is 31-band graphic which is easily surpassed by outbound DSP's like Helix, and having individual driver tuning verses just left and right.


While newer DSPs do have more tuning options than the P99rs, the P99rs does have enough tuning capabilities to produce incredible sound in pretty much all systems. When I was in my early years of competing, an old competitor told me once "having more stuff in your system could mean that there's more stuff to get wrong." To normal people the P99 has more than enough tuning stuff to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing. 



Elektra said:


> Well look out for the DSP PRO 2 with 32bit dacs and USB input... no HU required...


Exactly! I'm waiting on the Zapco HDR units to come out that have built in wi-fi and 192/24 processing. I may even take my P99rs out and put the factory head unit back in (for CD and radio use only) since I will be able to stream directly from my iPhone to the processor.


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## Babs

cmusic said:


> I'm currently running a P99rs but I have loaded 192/24 and 96/24 FLAC tracks onto my iPhone. Even with the P99rs' 24 bit DACs I can tell an improvement in the spacial qualities of the music with the higher resolution tracks over CDs. I've also heard several Sony GS9s, and they do sound better than the P99rs, I feel the differences are more to do with the higher resolution recordings than the hardware itself. It's maybe a 70/30 split with 70% of the improvement going to the recording format and 30% going to the upgraded hardware of the GS9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While newer DSPs do have more tuning options than the P99rs, the P99rs does have enough tuning capabilities to produce incredible sound in pretty much all systems. When I was in my early years of competing, an old competitor told me once "having more stuff in your system could mean that there's more stuff to get wrong." To normal people the P99 has more than enough tuning stuff to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! I'm waiting on the Zapco HDR units to come out that have built in wi-fi and 192/24 processing. I may even take my P99rs out and put the factory head unit back in (for CD and radio use only) since I will be able to stream directly from my iPhone to the processor.



Yeah that's strong. What's pricing on the new HDR units?


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## Elektra

cmusic said:


> I'm currently running a P99rs but I have loaded 192/24 and 96/24 FLAC tracks onto my iPhone. Even with the P99rs' 24 bit DACs I can tell an improvement in the spacial qualities of the music with the higher resolution tracks over CDs. I've also heard several Sony GS9s, and they do sound better than the P99rs, I feel the differences are more to do with the higher resolution recordings than the hardware itself. It's maybe a 70/30 split with 70% of the improvement going to the recording format and 30% going to the upgraded hardware of the GS9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While newer DSPs do have more tuning options than the P99rs, the P99rs does have enough tuning capabilities to produce incredible sound in pretty much all systems. When I was in my early years of competing, an old competitor told me once "having more stuff in your system could mean that there's more stuff to get wrong." To normal people the P99 has more than enough tuning stuff to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! I'm waiting on the Zapco HDR units to come out that have built in wi-fi and 192/24 processing. I may even take my P99rs out and put the factory head unit back in (for CD and radio use only) since I will be able to stream directly from my iPhone to the processor.




For me the Sony was a major step ahead of the p99... which had nothing to do with the recordings as they were all AIFF recordings through iTunes. So nothing special in terms of bitrates 

I have tried a 192bitrate track and it was spectacular (came with the LG V20) once you listen to the Sony even at its lowest capabilities you realize how redundant CDs are...


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## Elektra

Babs said:


> Yeah that's strong. What's pricing on the new HDR units?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




John told me around $1000 for the 12 channel and $1500 for the 16 channel... but it was nearly a year ago...


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## cmusic

Elektra said:


> For me the Sony was a major step ahead of the p99... which had nothing to do with the recordings as they were all AIFF recordings through iTunes. So nothing special in terms of bitrates
> 
> I have tried a 192bitrate track and it was spectacular (came with the LG V20) once you listen to the Sony even at its lowest capabilities you realize how redundant CDs are...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone. 

I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone. 

I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.


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## BlackHHR

cmusic said:


> I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone.
> 
> I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone.
> 
> I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.



Agreed ^^^^


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## Elektra

cmusic said:


> I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone.
> 
> I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone.
> 
> I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.




That's just it hi-res has been circling the audio industry for years - it took Sony to throw the gauntlet and the rest followed... the prospect of the Zapco HD DSP is intriguing - especially with the Sabre 32bit dacs - but the HU less Helix option makes sense...


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## ErinH

Maybe I'm on glue but I personally didn't notice a significant difference *audibly* between the GS9 and the P99. I wrote a bit about this in my build log so I'm gonna save myself some trouble and just do copy/paste. This was with standard CD quality audio. Apples to apples. It's a lot to read but I think it may be useful information for some. 





erinh said:


> I've been doing some testing on the Sony and the P99. I'll post up more details later but for now I just wanted to share some pictures...





erinh said:


> Alrighty!... got my little one in bed and slapped my new headphones on. Ready for this!? Let's go!
> 
> 
> My purpose in bench testing was a) see how I like the control of the Sony and b) do some basic testing of the electronics.
> 
> a) Well, this one's still TBD. I need more time and I really should install this in the car to say for certain how cumbersome (or not) using the iPhone for display is. So, let's get to b)...
> 
> b) The P99 is a great headunit so having it on hand to compare the Sony directly to made life a bit easier. First up: pre-out voltage.
> I took a 1khz, 0dB tone and played it on both the Sony and the P99 (I tested both AUX and USB inputs; same results).
> 
> The results were as follows:
> *Pioneer P99 doesn't clip at full volume (62/62), with a measured voltage of 4.73 Vrms. *I finally got the unit to clip with a boosted tone and have determined the P99's clipping point is roughly 5vRMS. But, again, I had to generate a boosted tone to achieve that. The P99 puts out clean voltage all the way up.*
> *Sony RSX-GS9 clips at 49/50, with the voltage being just below 4.20 Vrms. Once you go above 4.20 Vrms the GS9 output is clipped (distorted). *
> 
> *I've had some friends tell me their units clipped at 60/62 on the p99. I've had about 4-6 of these units in my hands and personally haven't found one that has clipped. But, just letting you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some pictures of the output testing...
> 
> 
> 
> P99. 4.73 Vrms and no clipping indicator in the D-1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sony GS9. You can see at 4.20 Vrms I got a clipped signal indicator.





erinh said:


> Moving on...
> 
> 
> I've noticed in past testing the P99 seems to have a very quick 'jump' in voltage output at the end of it's turn. To explain, the P99 has a maximum volume of "62". Between 59 and 62 the voltage jumps quite a bit (something like 1 full volt; I'd have to double check my numbers which are saved on another computer in my garage). I was curious to see just what the volume number vs output voltage looked like. How close to logarithmic is it? And how does the Sony GS9 compare?
> 
> To test this I simply took the same 1khz tone referenced above and played it through each headunit. I turned the volume up and recorded the voltage out one increment at a time from Zero to Max. With Max, it's 62 clicks for the P99 and for the GS9 it's 50 clicks.
> I then plotted the volume vs voltage both as a percentage. So, if the volume knob was at 62/62 that was 100%. The max voltage out would be 100% voltage. Make sense? Okay, cool! Here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ What you can see is that the Sony volume knob is more incremental but still logarithmic. The P99 is much more steep at the end of the volume scale. *The P99's output voltage increases nearly 66% in the last 10% of the volume turns (that's about the range from 56-62).* Now, is this good? Bad? Heckifiknow. I think it's more subjective. But it doesn't seem good to me. Seems the Sony really looks like the typical/ideal audio log. The P99's taper bothers me to see such a steep swing in such a short range. I prefer the volume steps the Sony implements. Why? Because there's not much wiggle room... with the P99 it seems like they simply have too many steps in volume, and that's also based on my experience. Seems like they could have had less stops in the volume and maybe made the taper more gradual like what you see with the Sony's volume taper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the same thing as above but instead of representing the voltage as a percentage, I've provided it as the real voltage numbers. I made sure to color the Sony's clipping area in red, overlaid on the otherwise burgundy 'line'. (Note: the header of the graph is incorrect but I'm not sweating it.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should also really gives you pause if you're the person who says to set gains based on 75% headunit volume and you still use attenuated tones to set amp gains. You're leaving a lot of signal on the floor and then ramping it up even more by using a -10dB or so tone. That's why it's good practice to know where the source and/or DSP clip and set them to max unclipped output before setting amp gains. But that's a side topic.





erinh said:


> and now we get to the part where I shouldn't be posting because it's total blasphemy and whatnot: the (sighted) aural test!
> 
> 
> I hooked up both the P99 and GS9 on the bench, fed with a USB source signal (standard CD resolution; not hi-res since the p99 can't play that) and did a totally sighted audition. I did set the headunit voltages to the same output (about 0.844 Vrms) with a 1khz tone to match them to the amp input. Then I went about my merry way of auditioning with my eyes wide open. It was funny... as I was listening I would think to myself "oh, this one sounds better tonally" and then think the opposite. I kept going back and forth on tonality. Ultimately, they're a wash. Even when using that 'DDSE' option on the Sony... I didn't hear anything that jumped out at me. Of course, the tracks I was using were high quality tracks anyway (you guys saw my 'Remasters and Audiophoolery' thread, didn't you? ). The only area where I kept feeling like there was a difference, though, was in the soundstage. It just seemed like the Sony had a larger soundstage and better separation. I'm not talking about "OMG, the Sony is the champion of the world!". But it was something I kept thinking sounded better. Maybe just psychoacoustics. Though, I did talk to a friend last night who said he felt the same way about the Sony. So who knows.
> 
> After that, I did some more electrical tests. The below is the difference between the P99 and the Sony GS9's frequency response. What you see are extremely minor differences... about 0.5dB at the extreme ends and I'm thinking that may be more to do with the impedance than the actual units' FR. But, this backs up what I was hearing regarding tonality... nothing here stands out at all and it shouldn't. There shouldn't be any deviance from flat in an electronic's frequency response... unless you're talking about Tubes, maybe.





erinh said:


> Basically, all of that above to say this:
> 
> Sound Quality speaking... as just a pure deck and not considering the DSP or UI... both the P99 and GS9 are great units. The noteworthy thing here, as unsurprising as it *should* be is this: there is no clear winner. They're both great units.
> But if you're thinking "oh, man, that Sony is the bee's knees" and you already have a P99 and are satisfied with it: don't waste your money seeking better sound. The P99 doesn't get beat up here. They're both just extremely good sources. Plus as Clay mentioned earlier, if you use the Sony you're gonna have to have a very nice DSP downstream.
> 
> Now, when you factor in the P99's built-in DSP, the P99 is the logical buy. But that stupid volume swing bothers me. And I do prefer the overall look of the Sony. Then there's user preference on interface (I like the p99's scroll wheel remote but think the Sony's app display is interesting). The Sony's high-res capability may be something you're interested in or find merit in... the p99 doesn't support that. So there are certainly reasons to choose one over the other as trivial or legitimate as they may be. I just advise not getting caught up in the notion that the Sony beats the snot out of the Pioneer in SQ (or vice versa) because - as far as my ears can tell - that's simply not the case. My $0.02. Of course, you know how opinions are... This is simply one of those kind of things you have to try out for yourself to know for sure.


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## ErinH

As for the high-res bit, I covered my thoughts on that here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-music-forum/300146-remasters-audiophoolery.html




ErinH said:


> So now it's a later time and I'm ready for a different post.
> 
> As I said above, it's often assumed that HDTracks.com has the best versions one can get of an album but this isn't always the case. For evidence, just look at the DRDB results for the RATM S/T album.
> 
> Original 1992:
> Album details - Dynamic Range Database
> 
> 
> 2012 anniversary reissue:
> Album details - Dynamic Range Database
> 
> 
> HDTracks 24-bit:
> Album details - Dynamic Range Database
> 
> 
> 2016 remaster (SACD/CD Hybrid):
> Album details - Dynamic Range Database
> 
> 
> You can clearly tell the HDTracks version is just the 20th anniversary release. It's actually 3dB _LOWER_ than the original album. And 5dB _lower_ than the new remaster. Those who spent $20 on that download wasted their money, IMHO. You paid for a 24-bit version of a really compressed remaster. You'd have been better off just keeping the original disc in it's "inferior" 16-bit state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, on the other hand, I purchased a Matchbox Twenty's _North_ album from HDTracks because it's about 4dB more dynamic than the CD. Here's the proof:
> Album list - Dynamic Range Database
> 
> As you can see, the HDTracks version is about 4dB more dynamic than the original CD pressing.
> 
> 
> Those are just two examples, then. As you can imagine, HDTracks is hit or miss as far as getting the best quality version of an album.
> 
> I'm telling you guys, when it comes to that site it really behooves you to do some research. Even just a quick search on the DRDB site can save you money. I found that out the hard way.
> 
> You expect something when you buy from them. But that's not always what you get. It's not necessarily their fault, per se. It's just... Maybe a bit disingenuous. But now you've been warned...


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## Elektra

ErinH said:


> As for the high-res bit, I covered my thoughts on that here:
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-music-forum/300146-remasters-audiophoolery.html




Must say when I tested the 2 units the difference was pretty noticeable - I found the Sony much more revealing and detailed. I found the P99 to very flat sounding in comparison - also found the background noise lower on the Sony - I noticed hiss on the p99 

Must say the Sony was BNIB and the Brax MX2 used was also BNIB so maybe a bit of burning in - the Sony initially compared to the P99 was a bit harsh on some of the less well recorded tracks - P99 was more forgiving...

But fast forward a few weeks and lots of hours and the Sony has lost its harshness and is super smooth on everything I listened to... 

I use a Utopia Kit 7 and MX2 and Sony combo for my listening sessions - best setup I have heard by far...

Also the Sony has no moving parts so less wear and tear and is a more reliable unit to purchase used - P99 has lots of moving parts so wear and tear more of a issue and more cautious when buying used...




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## Babs

Erin thanks for sharing the input between the 99RS and Sony.. Hearing these both in cars at finals, I can say except for maybe some hi-rez DSD, I guarantee I wouldn't be able to blind-test pick one over the other. 

I think it reaches in the realm of how good your tune is at that point and other gazillion car-installation factors IMHO. I've heard top gear sound bad and medium gear sound stellar. 

I think both of these units would be a fine pick for a 1-din "SQ dead head", and mainly depends how you want to use it.. Old school = 99. Tablet touch screen = Sony.



Elektra said:


> That's just it hi-res has been circling the audio industry for years - it took Sony to throw the gauntlet and the rest followed... the prospect of the Zapco HD DSP is intriguing - especially with the Sabre 32bit dacs - but the HU less Helix option makes sense...





cmusic said:


> I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.


The easier facilitation of streaming 1's and 0's directly to DSP's, which are the defacto required gear in higher-end SQ builds now, will change the face of the head unit market I believe. I'm not sure if that'll be good or not. I suspect the Alpines, Pioneers and Sony's will pretty much abandon the microscopic SQ market altogether as far as in-dash gear, in favor of features, toys, integration and margins, but my glass is half empty this morning.

If Alpine, Pio or Sony reads this.. Folks, capacitive touch, hi-rez, SQ based, pre-amp and SPDIF only, zero DSP stuffs, and no disk. Just make it play silly clean digi media, designed to feed an external DSP of any brand, and watch them fly off shelves. Just sayin'. Hell it doesn't even need a preamp at all does it? Radio and media player with USB on one end, SPDIF on the other and call it done. Of course Sony would reply "But DSD yo!".. I get that, but even us weirdo's are still beebopping over to iTunes and downloading (which is another rant for another cup of coffee).


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## Elektra

Babs said:


> Erin thanks for sharing the input between the 99RS and Sony.. Hearing these both in cars at finals, I can say except for maybe some hi-rez DSD, I guarantee I wouldn't be able to blind-test pick one over the other.
> 
> I think it reaches in the realm of how good your tune is at that point and other gazillion car-installation factors IMHO. I've heard top gear sound bad and medium gear sound stellar.
> 
> I think both of these units would be a fine pick for a 1-din "SQ dead head", and mainly depends how you want to use it.. Old school = 99. Tablet touch screen = Sony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The easier facilitation of streaming 1's and 0's directly to DSP's, which are the defacto required gear in higher-end SQ builds now, will change the face of the head unit market I believe. I'm not sure if that'll be good or not. I suspect the Alpines, Pioneers and Sony's will pretty much abandon the microscopic SQ market altogether as far as in-dash gear, in favor of features, toys, integration and margins, but my glass is half empty this morning.
> 
> If Alpine, Pio or Sony reads this.. Folks, capacitive touch, hi-rez, SQ based, pre-amp and SPDIF only, zero DSP stuffs, and no disk. Just make it play silly clean digi media, designed to feed an external DSP of any brand, and watch them fly off shelves. Just sayin'. Hell it doesn't even need a preamp at all does it? Radio and media player with USB on one end, SPDIF on the other and call it done. Of course Sony would reply "But DSD yo!".. I get that, but even us weirdo's are still beebopping over to iTunes and downloading (which is another rant for another cup of coffee).




One doesn't know how far if any the Hi-Res market will go... unless everyone gets on the bandwagon and release Hi-Res option to everything the Hi-Res market will be small... 

Personally to record a artist with more sophisticated software at the original master recording and then split the recording to different market versions should not be a big deal. 

If you want normal MP3 it's 1$ if you want hi-Res then $2 etc - you will most probably find the hi-res market will be big enough to sustain especially when it's the same recording costs initially (especially the bigger studios) 

Even lossless is fine.... there is a business to tap into here if anyone wants to take the chance and invest...

One things for certain we won't see another P99 or F1 again.... especially when DSP and multimedia is gaining great strides in development...


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## Babs

Elektra said:


> One things for certain we won't see another P99 or F1 again.... especially when DSP and multimedia is gaining great strides in development...


It's kinda full circle isn't it now. Even the old Denon no-frills hifi units are kinda chic again now that you can tune on the back end. Literally zero processing.. Just killer transport to preamp and slick clean front face.


----------



## ErinH

Babs said:


> It's kinda full circle isn't it now. Even the old Denon no-frills hifi units are kinda chic again now that you can tune on the back end. Literally zero processing.. Just killer transport to preamp and slick clean front face.


yea... as long as you only listen to CDs (or don't mind a crude, non-USB connection for your digital files)


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## gijoe

I hate to be that guy, but if you think you're hearing significant (or even any) difference in two high end DACs, you are mistaken. Modern DACS are brilliant, even the cheaper ones. Assuming the FR is matched (because I will admit that out of the box the FR between different head units will be different, not better or worse necessarily, just different), you will not hear a difference. The differences you are claiming are psychological, and/or related to different tune, not the DAC, I call ******** on any claims that one head unit is superior than the other when they both have high end DACs.


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## Elektra

gijoe said:


> I hate to be that guy, but if you think you're hearing significant (or even any) difference in two high end DACs, you are mistaken. Modern DACS are brilliant, even the cheaper ones. Assuming the FR is matched (because I will admit that out of the box the FR between different head units will be different, not better or worse necessarily, just different), you will not hear a difference. The differences you are claiming are psychological, and/or related to different tune, not the DAC, I call ******** on any claims that one head unit is superior than the other when they both have high end DACs.




Sorry I don't agree... 

And I really hate it when people assume what I did and didn't hear.... 


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## gijoe

Elektra said:


> Sorry I don't agree...
> 
> And I really hate it when people assume what I did and didn't hear....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's fair, obviously it's pretty much impossible to quantify what another person sees/hears/tastes/etc. but when were talking about differences that have been shown to be far below our threshold, I suspect there may be something else involved. I can't quantify what you hear, but you have to agree that the mind plays a role as well. Whether or not that's the case, we won't know, but I suspect it is.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> yea... as long as you only listen to CDs (or don't mind a crude, non-USB connection for your digital files)


Well yeah. 

Funny I hadn't seen so many CD users still hanging on until I started attending the meets. Car audio guys still waving around optical donuts.


----------



## Elektra

gijoe said:


> That's fair, obviously it's pretty much impossible to quantify what another person sees/hears/tastes/etc. but when were talking about differences that have been shown to be far below our threshold, I suspect there may be something else involved. I can't quantify what you hear, but you have to agree that the mind plays a role as well. Whether or not that's the case, we won't know, but I suspect it is.




Yes of course - we buy a Ferrari and therefore it must be faster than a golf syndrome....

The reality is the blend of design, components make or break a DAC - I have a LG V20 with a ESS 32bit DAC - it sucks the IPhone 6s sounds better...

The DAC ultimately is totally reliant on how it's used on a circuit board.... 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gijoe

Elektra said:


> Yes of course - we buy a Ferrari and therefore it must be faster than a golf syndrome....
> 
> The reality is the blend of design, components make or break a DAC - I have a LG V20 with a ESS 32bit DAC - it sucks the IPhone 6s sounds better...
> 
> The DAC ultimately is totally reliant on how it's used on a circuit board....
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Certainly. It is highly unlikely that in modern audio (especially high end like we're discussing) that the DAC is the bottleneck. Regardless of whether or not there are immediate audible differences in the equipment we are discussing, there are good reasons for someone to buy either one, depending on their needs. I think we can all agree that any of the Pioneers, the Sony, and many other head unit can be used to create exceptional systems.


----------



## Elektra

gijoe said:


> Certainly. It is highly unlikely that in modern audio (especially high end like we're discussing) that the DAC is the bottleneck. Regardless of whether or not there are immediate audible differences in the equipment we are discussing, there are good reasons for someone to buy either one, depending on their needs. I think we can all agree that any of the Pioneers, the Sony, and many other head unit can be used to create exceptional systems.




Yes indeed... I bought the Sony for a decent DAC to encode my iPhone - the Istreamer was not good enough for me... also a pain in the butt to use as it always went to max volume every time I connected it and the AUX of my P90 was not coping with the output signal so it distorted all the time...

I just wanted a audiophile DAC that doesn't distort when I connect it and played the music with a degree of accuracy that meets the high expectations in audio I have 

So far Sony checks all my boxes! 

I'll be interested in the new PRO2 and how the direct input for the Idevice relates to the Sony audio capabilities - knowing Helix it won't be crap... so that's something I'll look into when it's available.

Also if my iPhone sounds as good if not better and has more capabilities in terms of recordings - why must I carry 50 CDs with me? That's so 90's.... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## oabeieo

cmusic said:


> I'm not using the Apple music app on my iPhone since it will not work with FLAC files. I use Vox media player on my iPhone and use a program called WALTR to load the FLAC files onto my iPhone from my desk computer. Vox will also play any tracks I loaded through Itunes also. Whenever I hook my iPhone back up to my computer and start iTunes to do a backup or load more music through iTunes, iTunes deletes all my FLAC files. I have to reload all my FLAC files from my computer after I close out iTunes. It's a small annoyance, but I don't really mind it in order to listen to high resolution music from my iPhone.
> 
> I agree on the CDs, high resolution files are the future of audiophile quality music. CDs are going out like the way of the 8-track and cassette. Every time I walk past the CD (and DVD) section in Walmart and I see some music that I want, I don't even think about buying the CD, I just download it to my phone.
> 
> I really like the GS9 but I feel that once processors like the Helix DSP Pro 2, the Mosconi 8 to 12, and the upcoming Zapco HDRs that for use high end car audiophiles, streaming directly to the processor will be easier and more cost effective than using a $1500 GS9. Just like all technology, the first generation is always the most expensive. Following generations have been less expensive and most of the time better.


True , but some of us love our steering wheel controls , and like being able to see what song you're listening to want to normal screen of somekind . 

As far as sound quality goes and connectivity you're right it doesn't really matter


----------



## oabeieo

Imo the dac and the final (opamp) combo is where different sounding outputs come into play ...some of these dacs have the opamp as part of the chipset. So your kinda stick with it. 

I've heard high slew rate opamps are the bees kneez but I haven't really got to play with a bunch of different setups. 
Low jitter , high bit , dac is nice and I would only imagine if any have good specs they'll perform, the opamps that drives the output would be where I think a real noticeable difference would be heard. 

Prett interesting stuff and definitely something I want to start learning about. 
I found some pages about swapping the dac in my dsps to find out the akm chip has the opamp built in and is of relatively good quality . I wasn't happy about the 2vRMS output and did find I can put up to 5v going into the chip and make it a 5v output. However after looking at the data sheet for this akm chip I need to learn a lot more on which leg is the power input leg because it shows a few .

Anyway here's a pretty interesting article I found when digging for info 

Doing your own DAC mods: a Primer


----------



## Jscoyne2

Babs said:


> By itself the fidelity and output strength is great. Limiting factor is 31-band graphic which is easily surpassed by outbound DSP's like Helix, and having individual driver tuning verses just left and right.
> 
> I'll report back once she's in my take on 99 vs 80
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


You should get someone else to listen to a before and after as well. You are definitely gonna have a psychoacoustic bias because the cash you spent.


----------



## Jscoyne2

oabeieo said:


> Imo the dac and the final (opamp) combo is where different sounding outputs come into play ...some of these dacs have the opamp as part of the chipset. So your kinda stick with it.
> 
> I've heard high slew rate opamps are the bees kneez but I haven't really got to play with a bunch of different setups.
> Low jitter , high bit , dac is nice and I would only imagine if any have good specs they'll perform, the opamps that drives the output would be where I think a real noticeable difference would be heard.
> 
> Prett interesting stuff and definitely something I want to start learning about.
> I found some pages about swapping the dac in my dsps to find out the akm chip has the opamp built in and is of relatively good quality . I wasn't happy about the 2vRMS output and did find I can put up to 5v going into the chip and make it a 5v output. However after looking at the data sheet for this akm chip I need to learn a lot more on which leg is the power input leg because it shows a few .
> 
> Anyway here's a pretty interesting article I found when digging for info
> 
> Doing your own DAC mods: a Primer


Modify 80prs(s) or some C-dsps and you might have yourself a nice side business


----------



## Babs

Jscoyne2 said:


> You should get someone else to listen to a before and after as well. You are definitely gonna have a psychoacoustic bias because the cash you spent.


You'd be surprised.  99RS's are out there. But I'll be reporting as honestly as possible.. If it doesn't spank the previous head unit, after the time in the car, I'll know it. 

I've heard several cars with these though and there is definitely a signal quality that's unmatched IMHO in any current CD 1-dins. You have to tune the car badly to make the 99 sound less than stellar. The GS9 Sony is the only other head unit I'd consider in 1-din and was actually my first choice, but couldn't spring for it at twice the coin for the one I found. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot out there at all in 2-dins with anywhere near the internals either the 99 or GS9 have.

With any of these though, after some different amp experiences, I can tell if I were still running the budget amps, I wouldn't tell a bit of difference because the amps introduced enough grain to veil over whatever signal they got. So, on subjective testing, the whole system is a system. Weak links will diminish it.


----------



## Babs

Jscoyne2 said:


> Modify 80prs(s) or some C-dsps and you might have yourself a nice side business


I'd say for if someone could take a good interface unit with good face, good build etc (lets say a NEX 4200 or 8200 or 149BT) and bypass all that junk with just a good clocked toslink output mod, they could sell those like hotcakes. Sign me up for a NEX. Capacitive touch, carplay, digital output and I'd be home.


----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> I'd say for if someone could take a good interface unit with good face, good build etc (lets say a NEX 4200 or 8200 or 149BT) and bypass all that junk with just a good clocked toslink output mod, they could sell those like hotcakes. Sign me up for a NEX. Capacitive touch, carplay, digital output and I'd be home.


OH that's a dream for sure. 
Love the 8200. Hate the AN outs .


----------



## oabeieo

Jscoyne2 said:


> Modify 80prs(s) or some C-dsps and you might have yourself a nice side business


Yeah that what I was looking into , but there all in one chips. Pointless and not doable. Even if it had 12s the lines would have to be so short it wouldn't be feasible . But some of these all in ones are codecs so that wouldn't work either.


----------



## gijoe

What makes the P99 "better" than the 80PRS is the extra processing, without the extra processing, the P99 will not sound better. Erin has tested all of the recent Pioneer active head units, and the response on all of them is excellent, and nearly identical. Yes, you will likely have a better sounding system with the P99, but only because of the processing. Then again, as mentioned, you will hear a difference anyway, because you've convinced yourself that you will.


----------



## Babs

gijoe said:


> What makes the P99 "better" than the 80PRS is the extra processing, without the extra processing, the P99 will not sound better.


Given the differences in the quality of the circuitry, the symmetrical board design, better clocks, better DAC's etc, I'm inclined to disagree. Although the sonic difference, in an apples-to-apples comparison, might not be apparent to some. The 80PRS is no slouch though and does incorporate some things sort of "trickle down" from the 99RS such as a configuration of multiple DAC pair per speaker group, burr-brown instead of AKM, and DSP network business. If they'd done the build quality, display, chassis and face as nice, I would probably still have the 80PRS running.



gijoe said:


> Erin has tested all of the recent Pioneer active head units, and the response on all of them is excellent, and nearly identical. Yes, you will likely have a better sounding system with the P99, but only because of the processing. Then again, as mentioned, you will hear a difference anyway, because you've convinced yourself that you will.


I'm actually using none of the processing, running through a Helix DSP, but having that option for full 4-way processing built in has made me decide to go ahead and run the extra RCA's just for testing the 99 on it's own. Wish it were SPDIF, but alas no.

I don't know where the "convinced" part is coming from.. I should put it this way, I suspect and have a hypothesis given all I know, the 99 "should" have some sonic improvements, one being output quality and S/N ratio feeding the DSP, just quantified by the hotter output specs. And secondly just based on perception that the internals are better, but that remains to be tested.

But as I've said, I'll assess as objectively as possible and certainly report what's better or what might not have improved at all. If it's better, great.. If it's no appreciable change, great. I'll take the nicer display and interface and remote, and like it.  I've made gear changes in the past that weren't improvements, and some with obvious and instant improvement, so I try to put bias aside and trust my ears. I'm certainly not afraid to accept it because if anything I'll be extra critical on first listening because that's how I am. I'll also certainly hope my critical listening skills are good enough to overcome an ego-induced idea "it's gotta be better" and perceptual bias.


----------



## gijoe

Babs said:


> Given the differences in the quality of the circuitry, the symmetrical board design, better clocks, better DAC's etc, I'm inclined to disagree. Although the sonic difference, in an apples-to-apples comparison, might not be apparent to some. The 80PRS is no slouch though and does incorporate some things sort of "trickle down" from the 99RS such as a configuration of multiple DAC pair per speaker group, burr-brown instead of AKM, and DSP network business. If they'd done the build quality, display, chassis and face as nice, I would probably still have the 80PRS running.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually using none of the processing, running through a Helix DSP, but having that option for full 4-way processing built in has made me decide to go ahead and run the extra RCA's just for testing the 99 on it's own. Wish it were SPDIF, but alas no.
> 
> I don't know where the "convinced" part is coming from.. I should put it this way, I suspect and have a hypothesis given all I know, the 99 "should" have some sonic improvements, one being output quality and S/N ratio feeding the DSP, just quantified by the hotter output specs.
> 
> But as I've said, I'll assess as objectively as possible and certainly report what's better or what might not have improved at all. If it's better, great.. If it's no appreciable change, great. I'll take the nicer display and interface and remote, and like it.  I've made gear changes in the past that weren't improvements, and some with obvious and instant improvement, so I try to put bias aside and trust my ears. I'm certainly not afraid to accept it because if anything I'll be extra critical on first listening because that's how I am. I'll also certainly hope my critical listening skills are good enough to overcome an ego-induced idea "it's gotta be better" and perceptual bias.


I'm not arguing that the the P99 isn't a superior product, but I am saying that echoic memory lasts a couple of seconds, there is no way to make an accurate, objective comparison unless you can switch back and forth between the two sources, playing the same content, at the same level, within seconds.

I digress, I'm certain you will be absolutely satisfied with the switch. The build quality alone is enough to justify the switch, the P99 is beautiful.


----------



## Babs

gijoe said:


> I'm not arguing that the the P99 isn't a superior product, but I am saying that echoic memory lasts a couple of seconds, there is no way to make an accurate, objective comparison unless you can switch back and forth between the two sources, playing the same content, at the same level, within seconds.
> 
> I digress, I'm certain you will be absolutely satisfied with the switch. The build quality alone is enough to justify the switch, the P99 is beautiful.


Understood.. Unfortunately a new owner has the 80PRS so no blind A/B available.  But that would have been fun.


----------



## claydo

Just my 2cents, but when I replaced my long in the tooth 880 (basically the same internals as the 80) with the 99, I noticed no sonic improvement at all........both were clean, both were capable. Of course the tuning prowess was night and day.....but essque wise, I heard no difference.....I think most folks are a lil full of themselves and their ear's capabilities at hearing miniscule lab measured specs.....lmao, but whatever, to each their own I reckon.......


----------



## gijoe

claydo said:


> Just my 2cents, but when I replaced my long in the tooth 880 (basically the same internals as the 80) with the 99, I noticed no sonic improvement at all........both were clean, both were capable. Of course the tuning prowess was night and day.....but essque wise, I heard no difference.....I think most folks are a lil full of themselves and their ear's capabilities at hearing miniscule lab measured specs.....lmao, but whatever, to each their own I reckon.......


If the ipod interface hadn't been so clunky, I would have kept my 880. Actually, I kind of want one again anyway. If the more modern features aren't necessary, the 880/800 are great head units.


----------



## Babs

claydo said:


> Just my 2cents, but when I replaced my long in the tooth 880 (basically the same internals as the 80) with the 99, I noticed no sonic improvement at all........both were clean, both were capable. Of course the tuning prowess was night and day.....but essque wise, I heard no difference.....I think most folks are a lil full of themselves and their ear's capabilities at hearing miniscule lab measured specs.....lmao, but whatever, to each their own I reckon.......


That'll be the interesting challenge, can I hear the SQ difference plugging right into the same tune before the swap. Challenge accepted.  

And I freely admit I have old-man ears that've been way too abused. Am certainly NOT the "man with the golden ears".. 3rd nipple and all. LMAO! You can call me.. Scaramanga. :laugh:


----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> That'll be the interesting challenge, can I hear the SQ difference plugging right into the same tune before the swap. Challenge accepted.
> 
> And I freely admit I have old-man ears that've been way too abused. Am certainly NOT the "man with the golden ears".. 3rd nipple and all. LMAO! You can call me.. Scaramanga. :laugh:


 




When I said I thought with one sounded better , TBCH , 
I like the BBe in the 880 and maybe that's why I favor it over sndrtvr .
I remember tge 880 sounding better (just cleaner no processing just the raw signal ) 

This post (as nerdy as it is ) does bear some truth in its humor 
Last time I fired up my 880 was over 5 years ago I still have it , and I've shredded my ears a lot since than. So maybe my statement needs a true re-evaluation. I just remember it sounding really good. 

I have the 80 in my van , and maybe it's not so polished look and feel makes me think it sounds tinny , competed to both . I listen to it once a week and it sounds good. I remember the 880 sounding better tho. 
The 99 in my car sounds a lot like the 880 just missing BBe. 
But in reality maybe I too am getting old and have worn ears as well


----------



## Babs

Curious. This thing has a thick gauge fused power wire with a bulbous black thing on it. ? Don't know what that is but ok. So it makes me think should I feed it a dedicated power and ground or just use car harness power and ground like normal? Just wondering. It's got a big 7.5amp fuse on it. 

Sure is gorgeous. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Jscoyne2

Babs said:


> Curious. This thing has a thick gauge fused power wire with a bulbous black thing on it. ? Don't know what that is but ok. So it makes me think should I feed it a dedicated power and ground or just use car harness power and ground like normal? Just wondering. It's got a big 7.5amp fuse on it.
> 
> Sure is gorgeous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Definitely dedicated. 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## foreman

Has anyone encountered a p99 display stopped working? Mine went black today. Knobs and audio are goo but no OLED


----------



## 2010hummerguy

foreman said:


> Has anyone encountered a p99 display stopped working? Mine went black today. Knobs and audio are goo but no OLED


Yes, it happened to me recently too. Clean the contacts between the HU and the face. That should do the trick.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Elektra said:


> Yes of course - we buy a Ferrari and therefore it must be faster than a golf syndrome....
> 
> The reality is the blend of design, components make or break a DAC - I have a LG V20 with a ESS 32bit DAC - it sucks the IPhone 6s sounds better...
> 
> The DAC ultimately is totally reliant on how it's used on a circuit board....
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly, DAC is a tiny part of the greater signal chain. 



Elektra said:


> Must say when I tested the 2 units the difference was pretty noticeable - I found the Sony much more revealing and detailed. I found the P99 to very flat sounding in comparison - also found the background noise lower on the Sony - I noticed hiss on the p99
> 
> Must say the Sony was BNIB and the Brax MX2 used was also BNIB so maybe a bit of burning in - the Sony initially compared to the P99 was a bit harsh on some of the less well recorded tracks - P99 was more forgiving...
> 
> But fast forward a few weeks and lots of hours and the Sony has lost its harshness and is super smooth on everything I listened to...
> 
> I use a Utopia Kit 7 and MX2 and Sony combo for my listening sessions - best setup I have heard by far...
> 
> Also the Sony has no moving parts so less wear and tear and is a more reliable unit to purchase used - P99 has lots of moving parts so wear and tear more of a issue and more cautious when buying used...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Weird that you could hear hiss with your P99. Maybe it was affected by something else in your electrical system? Mine picks up a weird noise when I first start my truck in the morning on cold days but then it goes away when it warms up. Might be my alternator but I am not sure.

Cool that you got to compare the two, but I am bummed Sony did not include any DSP. TBH, I don't really get the point of the GS9...$1500 for what amounts to an optical extractor for my phone is puzzling. Or am I missing the point of it?



Jscoyne2 said:


> Eh. Idk. Im just nor buying that the 99rs sounds better than the 80prs. Or hell, skipping the headunit all together and direct usb to ext dsp.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


Just try it for yourself, no matter how much you speculate on others' experience with gear you haven't heard, it won't advance your own personal opinion. And I am saying this in the nicest way possible, if you are really that interested in comparing them, you have to hear it for yourself. I wasn't expecting to hear a big difference but it was substantial. I was hoping I could keep my $250 80PRS and flip my 99 for a gain after scoring the deal of a lifetime on it. Build quality wasn't a big factor; I drive a chunky American car with the cheapest plastic dash I've ever seen in a newer $40k+ truck, or else I'd have bought a G-wagen years ago.

So then people will say it's the tuning and not the DAC or the opamps or the DSP, etc. But as end users we can't customize individual components so we have to trust the manufacturer's sum of the parts. And that's where we hear the difference. Not the DAC or anything like that, but the entire package. And if someone doesn't hear a difference or thinks the P99 sounds worse, that's not wrong either and they're going to save $1k. But you still owe it to yourself to make the decision first-hand.

I agree with your phone straight to DSP statement. IMHO 90% of headunit funtionality became obsolete the moment you could put lossless and high-res music on a phone. What's missing is an easy to use display with intuitive controls that are safe to use while driving. That's one of my favorite things about the P99, it lets me change tracks in Spotify on my iPhone. I wish it did more in Spotify, but it's better than nothing. However, my patience with Apple has been short lately and the fact that the P99 is married to iOS sadly limits its lifespan. I like discovering new music while I drive so reverting to music on storage is not an option for me. Which is why...



Elektra said:


> Well look out for the DSP PRO 2 with 32bit dacs and USB input... no HU required...
> 
> Interesting prospect...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


...this and the Zapco HDR definitely have my interest. I have some friends working on another option that would put lossless wireless phone connectivity, DSP, and Hypex amps in the same small box. Potentially swappable amp modules too. Options like this are exciting and give me hope despite the SQ HU market having been dead for years.


----------



## Elektra

Architect7 said:


> Exactly, DAC is a tiny part of the greater signal chain.
> 
> 
> 
> Weird that you could hear hiss with your P99. Maybe it was affected by something else in your electrical system? Mine picks up a weird noise when I first start my truck in the morning on cold days but then it goes away when it warms up. Might be my alternator but I am not sure.
> 
> Cool that you got to compare the two, but I am bummed Sony did not include any DSP. TBH, I don't really get the point of the GS9...$1500 for what amounts to an optical extractor for my phone is puzzling. Or am I missing the point of it?
> 
> 
> 
> Just try it for yourself, no matter how much you speculate on others' experience with gear you haven't heard, it won't advance your own personal opinion. And I am saying this in the nicest way possible, if you are really that interested in comparing them, you have to hear it for yourself. I wasn't expecting to hear a big difference but it was substantial. I was hoping I could keep my $250 80PRS and flip my 99 for a gain after scoring the deal of a lifetime on it. Build quality wasn't a big factor; I drive a chunky American car with the cheapest plastic dash I've ever seen in a newer $40k+ truck, or else I'd have bought a G-wagen years ago.
> 
> So then people will say it's the tuning and not the DAC or the opamps or the DSP, etc. But as end users we can't customize individual components so we have to trust the manufacturer's sum of the parts. And that's where we hear the difference. Not the DAC or anything like that, but the entire package. And if someone doesn't hear a difference or thinks the P99 sounds worse, that's not wrong either and they're going to save $1k. But you still owe it to yourself to make the decision first-hand.
> 
> I agree with your phone straight to DSP statement. IMHO 90% of headunit funtionality became obsolete the moment you could put lossless and high-res music on a phone. What's missing is an easy to use display with intuitive controls that are safe to use while driving. That's one of my favorite things about the P99, it lets me change tracks in Spotify on my iPhone. I wish it did more in Spotify, but it's better than nothing. However, my patience with Apple has been short lately and the fact that the P99 is married to iOS sadly limits its lifespan. I like discovering new music while I drive so reverting to music on storage is not an option for me. Which is why...
> 
> 
> 
> ...this and the Zapco HDR definitely have my interest. I have some friends working on another option that would put lossless wireless phone connectivity, DSP, and Hypex amps in the same small box. Potentially swappable amp modules too. Options like this are exciting and give me hope despite the SQ HU market having been dead for years.



I wonder if that HDR DSP is ever going to come - I spoke to John about it well over a year ago and he hasn't responded to my latest emails so I wonder if there is a issue there...

The Sony HU can be had for under $1000 now BNIB or lightly used you can buy a DSP PRO for $500 - you could have a decent combo for under $1500 

The P99 is a dying product IMHO - as it is only cheap new cars have removable radios and that is changing as well.... the Sony will also have a similar problem - but with the Sony you could operate it in a remote location. 

The future really is the DSP PRO.2 with USB input - use your iPhone or iPad as a source and your done - full DSP 32bit dacs etc no need to worry about where to fit your din sized source... 

What's nice about the USB input is that it's like a independent source that is not dependent on the HU quality and you can have both OEM and USB 

The reason why Sony didn't do a full DSP on the HU is because it would have a much higher retail price so they decided against it - guys are saying $1500 is too much can you imagine if it was $2200 with a DSP - nobody will buy it....

I suspect Sony will make a matching DSP - its the only logical next step...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Jscoyne2 said:


> Definitely dedicated.


Why? Is there an established thing for these head units or something? I ran the 80PRS no issues on harness power/ground. I'm totally indifferent on either side of that topic so completely open minded. I can easily run a 16x2 from the distro blocks in trunk, since there's stuff I'd like to do while the carpet is up relocating some things etc.

So folks know, the topic was using harness power/ground or running a dedicated power/ground for the head unit. My distro is with everything else in trunk so there is a bit of length involved in that.


----------



## BlackHHR

Babs said:


> Well yeah.
> 
> Funny I hadn't seen so many CD users still hanging on until I started attending the meets. Car audio guys still waving around optical donuts.


----------



## Babs

ROFL!


----------



## BlackHHR

Babs said:


> Why? Is there an established thing for these head units or something? I ran the 80PRS no issues on harness power/ground. I'm totally indifferent on either side of that topic so completely open minded. I can easily run a 16x2 from the distro blocks in trunk, since there's stuff I'd like to do while the carpet is up relocating some things etc.
> 
> So folks know, the topic was using harness power/ground or running a dedicated power/ground for the head unit. My distro is with everything else in trunk so there is a bit of length involved in that.


Scott, I ran my power, ground and acc from the harness in the HHR with the P99. As you saw for yourself at finals, it played like a champ.

Great deck for what it is.


----------



## Babs

BlackHHR said:


> Scott, I ran my power, ground and acc from the harness in the HHR with the P99. As you saw for yourself at finals, it played like a champ.
> 
> Great deck for what it is.


It did alright I guess.  Even just running lowly CD's. :laugh:


----------



## Babs

So what is that bulbous goodie on the yellow power run anyway?


----------



## BlackHHR

Babs said:


> So what is that bulbous goodie on the yellow power run anyway?


I think it is a coil of some sort. Not sure since I have not cracked one open.


----------



## Jscoyne2

oabeieo said:


> Or some folks are crazy enough to swap decks back and forth every week to have a different head unit and take the time to learn the difference :\
> Yeah it's a tiny minute difference that is hard to put into words and putting sinewaves into them achieving the same insane results. I mean , a 69$ 280bt has a flat frequency responce. (If that's all you want) .....lmao but whatever, to each there own I do reckon as well.
> 0.02c


Im not how much sarcasm is in that sentence

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

She's in. Sounds like a stereo. 
Big question is better than the 80PRS? I think so. Fidelity seems better, fine details seem a bit smoother with less graininess. The output is definitely better, stage and image more detailed deeper. Less veiled. A tad warmer. Had to back off a smidge in the sub and midbass department. I attribute that to hotter preamp. I'll need to reevaluate the tune for tonality. Take that for what it's worth and might be "upgrade bias", but I'm really digging it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Beckerson1

Babs said:


> She's in. Sounds like a stereo.
> Big question is better than the 80PRS? I think so. Fidelity seems better, fine details seem a bit smoother with less graininess. The output is definitely better, stage and image more detailed deeper. Less veiled. A tad warmer. Had to back off a smidge in the sub and midbass department. I attribute that to hotter preamp. I'll need to reevaluate the tune for tonality. Take that for what it's worth and might be "upgrade bias", but I'm really digging it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Bias or not as long as you're happy with the new addition.


----------



## Babs

Beckerson1 said:


> Bias or not as long as you're happy with the new addition.



I'm hearing stuff I didn't notice before. Since I'm running through a Helix DSP tune I already dialed in it's a decent comparison to what I had before with the 80PRS so I can assess it based on the same tune at least. I believe it's definitely an upgrade. I'd say the 99RS and Sony GS9 are the two best 1-dins currently available if you're running external DSP. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

For at least something objective I can confirm no issues with an iPhone 6 via USB. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> She's in. Sounds like a stereo.
> Big question is better than the 80PRS? I think so. Fidelity seems better, fine details seem a bit smoother with less graininess. The output is definitely better, stage and image more detailed deeper. Less veiled. A tad warmer. Had to back off a smidge in the sub and midbass department. I attribute that to hotter preamp. I'll need to reevaluate the tune for tonality. Take that for what it's worth and might be "upgrade bias", but I'm really digging it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



I couldn't put it into words like that, that about exactly what I felt about it too.


----------



## Babs

Babs said:


> I'm hearing stuff I didn't notice before. Since I'm running through a Helix DSP tune I already dialed in it's a decent comparison to what I had before with the 80PRS so I can assess it based on the same tune at least. I believe it's definitely an upgrade. I'd say the 99RS and Sony GS9 are the two best 1-dins currently available if you're running external DSP.


Greg I need that 'crickets' track. LOL!


----------



## foreman

Yes sir, tried that. Now i have no lights at all and no sound. The face won't move down on eject or anything. Zero operation. Only a single red LED blinking on the face. I've searched for 2 days and can't come up with anything. Anyone seen this??? I'm going to take it out tonight and grab the DMM and see what i see. Any advice would be stellar.




Architect7 said:


> Yes, it happened to me recently too. Clean the contacts between the HU and the face. That should do the trick.


----------



## oabeieo

foreman said:


> Yes sir, tried that. Now i have no lights at all and no sound. The face won't move down on eject or anything. Zero operation. Only a single red LED blinking on the face. I've searched for 2 days and can't come up with anything. Anyone seen this??? I'm going to take it out tonight and grab the DMM and see what i see. Any advice would be stellar.


Mine did that too, it eventually started working again and I quit taking the face off at night , the hot/cold kept messing with it .

Since I stopped taking face off it's worked fine


----------



## foreman

After some butt puckering disassembly testing, it appears the flex cable has a break in it. Ordered a one and will post my results.


----------



## Babs

foreman said:


> After some butt puckering disassembly testing, it appears the flex cable has a break in it. Ordered a one and will post my results.


Aha!!! I was thinking that but didn't want to speculate. Went through two Kenwood top of the line Excelons long ago with that issue. Might not be a bad idea to stock up on those. I'm definitely going to get a spare remote, except damn they're proud of those.

So how nasty of a tear-down was it, or was it just that you were in uncharted territory?


----------



## percy072

Is there anyway to stop the main screen cycling from black to white?? I can't seem to find anything in the manual and it's a PIA at night!! Would rather it just stayed black background with white lettering...

thank's guy's


----------



## bnae38

Probably "reverse mode". Should be in settings.

Have to enter those settings with power off. Hold down .. some button, can't remember.

Function button?


----------



## percy072

bnae38 said:


> Probably "reverse mode". Should be in settings.


Yep...that did it, thankyou!!


----------



## bnae38

:thumbsup:


----------



## mattjk

How's the built-in DSP? Can you tune it as well as a good external DSP, say an ms-8?


----------



## ross.cottrill

mattjk said:


> How's the built-in DSP? Can you tune it as well as a good external DSP, say an ms-8?


....um yeah ,it's pretty phenomenal for an in dash unit .


----------



## derickveliz

ross.cottrill said:


> ....um yeah ,it's pretty phenomenal for an in dash unit .


*I 2nd that! and love this little head unit! epper::drummer:

Beside the full control I love the fact that I can make adjustments on the fly (yes driving) any time any day. *

.






D.


----------



## brianhj

Just figured out if you hit DISP on remote while in list of artists on ipod you can browse by letter 

I kept thinking there has GOT to be a faster way to browse


----------



## claydo

brianhj said:


> Just figured out if you hit DISP on remote while in list of artists on ipod you can browse by letter


Whoa........wut, really? That's freakin awesome, does it work in other groupings as well? I've had this unit a good while and hadn't discovered this!


Nothing sucks worse than going from ac/dc to symphony x in artists on yer ipod with the 99.....lmao.


----------



## GEM592

Wow I'm going to check if that works on the 80prs also just because I'm sure I wouldn't know if it did


----------



## jeremiahmeister

Hi, I currently have my p99rs playing with an ipod classic and everything works perfect, but now I want to play music streaming from Tidal in hi fi, for that I think I will use an iphone, some update about it working on iphone 6s or 7? Thanks in advance...


----------



## mrpeabody

jeremiahmeister said:


> Hi, I currently have my p99rs playing with an ipod classic and everything works perfect, but now I want to play music streaming from Tidal in hi fi, for that I think I will use an iphone, some update about it working on iphone 6s or 7? Thanks in advance...


I've tried my friend's 6 and it worked.


----------



## jeremiahmeister

mrpeabody said:


> I've tried my friend's 6 and it worked.


Thanks, I already tested it with 7 and it works correctly, I just need to check with the plus models.


----------



## benny z

jeremiahmeister said:


> Thanks, I already tested it with 7 and it works correctly, I just need to check with the plus models.




I use my P99 with my 7+.


----------



## jeremiahmeister

benny z said:


> I use my P99 with my 7+.


Thanks benny, and it charges the battery correctly?


----------



## benny z

yes.


----------



## jeremiahmeister

benny z said:


> yes.


Great! now I don't know if to wait for the iphone 8 and if it works correctly.


----------



## deputydog95

ross.cottrill said:


> ....um yeah ,it's pretty phenomenal for an in dash unit .




Ok, so my system is done. Except for the head unit. I screwed up and tried to use the newly released Porsche classic unit. High level out, quirky interface, terrible display, assuming an awful DAC. Fail. Sounds awful relatively speaking... Anyway, moving on.

ARC 6 channel amp (4x150 and 2x300)
ARC PSM DSP (the little one)
Focal Elite 6.5 speakers fully active
Focal Expert 4" rears (not currently connected as we went full active and ran out of power options)
ARC 10" subs.

Would you guys say the DSP in the Pioneer P99 is as good or better than an external DSP like I have now?
How difficult is it to tune? Can you hook a laptop up to it do you have to use the buttons on the radio face? If so, how painful is it?
Lastly, did any of you guys regret getting the Pioneer and wish you had got the Sony GS9?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## derickveliz

deputydog95 said:


> Would you guys say the DSP in the Pioneer P99 is as good or better than an external DSP like I have now?
> How difficult is it to tune? Can you hook a laptop up to it do you have to use the buttons on the radio face? If so, how painful is it?
> Lastly, did any of you guys regret getting the Pioneer and wish you had got the Sony GS9?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I can only speak from a P99 to a Bit 1/10

For me it's much easier to tune in the P99, no tablet or laptop in the way, also I can tune any time and I don't need a computer, I don't even need to turn my head looking for the information on a screen that may be interrupting the path between the speakers to my ears.

You can't hook up the P99 to a laptop.

I don't use the buttons on the P99 I use the Remote, makes it much easier and I keep my driving position while tuning and not even moving my arm to reach the Head Unit. 

I will never regret about the P99, I can't live without my P99

D.


----------



## deputydog95

derickveliz said:


> I can only speak from a P99 to a Bit 1/10
> 
> For me it's much easier to tune in the P99, no tablet or laptop in the way, also I can tune any time and I don't need a computer, I don't even need to turn my head looking for the information on a screen that may be interrupting the path between the speakers to my ears.
> 
> You can't hook up the P99 to a laptop.
> 
> I don't use the buttons on the P99 I use the Remote, makes it much easier and I keep my driving position while tuning and not even moving my arm to reach the Head Unit.
> 
> I will never regret about the P99, I can't live without my P99
> 
> D.


Thanks for the quick reply and the feedback. 

What are the pros and cons to the P99 DSP versus an external? 

I'm assuming the P99 has a digital output that could be sent to a digital input on an external DSP?


----------



## derickveliz

deputydog95 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply and the feedback.
> 
> What are the pros and cons to the P99 DSP versus an external?
> 
> I'm assuming the P99 has a digital output that could be sent to a digital input on an external DSP?


Your are welcome,

From my own experience:

I can tune on the fly, I don't need a computer for small adjustments, most of the time my laptop was in the way.

I really don't remember if the P99 has or not a digital output. 

D.


----------



## deputydog95

derickveliz said:


> Your are welcome,
> 
> From my own experience:
> 
> I can tune on the fly, I don't need a computer for small adjustments, most of the time my laptop was in the way.
> 
> I really don't remember if the P99 has or not a digital output.
> 
> D.


Confirmed, no digital output. Which means even if I went digital in, I guess would I be going analog out to my external DSP.

So what is the tuning process like with the remote? 
It would "seem" like it would be a lot harder than tuning via laptop?
Are there any limitations with the 99's DSP that you wouldn't have with an external unit?


----------



## gijoe

deputydog95 said:


> Confirmed, no digital output. Which means even if I went digital in, I guess would I be going analog out to my external DSP.
> 
> So what is the tuning process like with the remote?
> It would "seem" like it would be a lot harder than tuning via laptop?
> Are there any limitations with the 99's DSP that you wouldn't have with an external unit?


The DSP isn't as powerful as some of the external DSPs out there, but if you can't win competitions with the tuning tools it has, you need to learn to tune better. It is more than adequate in the right hands. I don't think it's much more difficult than tuning via laptop. You have to do all of the tuning from the driver's seat instead of setting up basic stuff ahead of time, but realistically you'll need to do most of the tuning from the listening position anyway. Some people dislike the menus/interface, but I found it pretty intuitive and never had a problem with where/how things are laid out.


----------



## deputydog95

gijoe said:


> The DSP isn't as powerful as some of the external DSPs out there, but if you can't win competitions with the tuning tools it has, you need to learn to tune better. It is more than adequate in the right hands. I don't think it's much more difficult than tuning via laptop. You have to do all of the tuning from the driver's seat instead of setting up basic stuff ahead of time, but realistically you'll need to do most of the tuning from the listening position anyway. Some people dislike the menus/interface, but I found it pretty intuitive and never had a problem with where/how things are laid out.


So, after looking at the specs a little more, the 99 can only be adjusted for left and right side, not the individual speakers, right?

And the frequency adjustments on the EQ are fixed, right?

Do these limitations create any frustration for you guys?





L/R Independent 31-Band Digital Equalizer: The built-in 31-band digital equalizer allows you to precisely control the in-cabin acoustics of your vehicle. Unparalleled flexibility is provided through either Left/Right independent setup, or for easier setup L/R common is available. Each frequency band of the 31-band digital EQ (20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 315hz, 400hz, 500hz, 630Hz, 800hz, 1k, 1.25k, 1.6k, 2k, 2.5k, 3.15k, 4k, 5k, 6.3k, 8k, 10k, 12.5k, 16k, 20k) can be adjusted from -12 to +12. There are 5 custom memories to allow multiple setups. There is also a Flat setting.


----------



## gijoe

deputydog95 said:


> So, after looking at the specs a little more, the 99 can only be adjusted for left and right side, not the individual speakers, right?
> 
> And the frequency adjustments on the EQ are fixed, right?
> 
> Do these limitations create any frustration for you guys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L/R Independent 31-Band Digital Equalizer: The built-in 31-band digital equalizer allows you to precisely control the in-cabin acoustics of your vehicle. Unparalleled flexibility is provided through either Left/Right independent setup, or for easier setup L/R common is available. Each frequency band of the 31-band digital EQ (20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 315hz, 400hz, 500hz, 630Hz, 800hz, 1k, 1.25k, 1.6k, 2k, 2.5k, 3.15k, 4k, 5k, 6.3k, 8k, 10k, 12.5k, 16k, 20k) can be adjusted from -12 to +12. There are 5 custom memories to allow multiple setups. There is also a Flat setting.



Some people argue that independent EQ for each driver is important, but I don't think it is. With the P99RS you have control over each side, the frequencies are split between different drivers, you don't need 1k EQ on a tweeter crossed at 3k. It can be helpful near the crossover point, but like I said before, if you can't win competitions with this head unit, it's not the tuning features that are the limiting factor, it's your ability to use them.


----------



## derickveliz

deputydog95 said:


> So, after looking at the specs a little more, the 99 can only be adjusted for left and right side, not the individual speakers, right?
> 
> And the frequency adjustments on the EQ are fixed, right?
> 
> Do these limitations create any frustration for you guys?


I believe you have the wrong information, the P99 can adjust just about anything you want. 

D.


----------



## deputydog95

derickveliz said:


> I believe you have the wrong information, the P99 can adjust just about anything you want.
> 
> D.


From the Crutchfield site:

L/R Independent 31-Band Digital Equalizer: The built-in 31-band digital equalizer allows you to precisely control the in-cabin acoustics of your vehicle. Unparalleled flexibility is provided through either Left/Right independent setup, or for easier setup L/R common is available. Each frequency band of the 31-band digital EQ (20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 315hz, 400hz, 500hz, 630Hz, 800hz, 1k, 1.25k, 1.6k, 2k, 2.5k, 3.15k, 4k, 5k, 6.3k, 8k, 10k, 12.5k, 16k, 20k) can be adjusted from -12 to +12. There are 5 custom memories to allow multiple setups. There is also a Flat setting.


----------



## derickveliz

deputydog95 said:


> From the Crutchfield site:
> 
> L/R Independent 31-Band Digital Equalizer: The built-in 31-band digital equalizer allows you to precisely control the in-cabin acoustics of your vehicle. Unparalleled flexibility is provided through either Left/Right independent setup, or for easier setup L/R common is available. Each frequency band of the 31-band digital EQ (20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 315hz, 400hz, 500hz, 630Hz, 800hz, 1k, 1.25k, 1.6k, 2k, 2.5k, 3.15k, 4k, 5k, 6.3k, 8k, 10k, 12.5k, 16k, 20k) can be adjusted from -12 to +12. There are 5 custom memories to allow multiple setups. There is also a Flat setting.


That means that I can change the EQ for each left or right side, for e.i. when I tune with frequencies I use the EQ left and right to center each frequency.

Tell me something that you would like to have that is not in the P99

D.


----------



## deputydog95

Is the 99 discontinued?
I know CF still sells them, but my installer said they were discontinued 3 years ago by Pioneer.


----------



## gijoe

derickveliz said:


> That means that I can change the EQ for each left or right side, for e.i. when I tune with frequencies I use the EQ left and right to center each frequency.
> 
> Tell me something that you would like to have that is not in the P99
> 
> D.


I think you missed his point. Many DSPs offer EQ for each driver, not just each side. The P99 have L/R EQ, but not for each driver. I don't think it's a problem, having control of each driver is nice around the crossover point, but I don't think it's nearly as big of an advantage as some others here think. Varying the crossover points and slopes should be plenty to smooth the response in most situations. 

So, he did not have the wrong information, the P99 does not do EQ for each driver, only each side.


----------



## deputydog95

gijoe said:


> I think you missed his point. Many DSPs offer EQ for each driver, not just each side. The P99 have L/R EQ, but not for each driver. I don't think it's a problem, having control of each driver is nice around the crossover point, but I don't think it's nearly as big of an advantage as some others here think. Varying the crossover points and slopes should be plenty to smooth the response in most situations.
> 
> So, he did not have the wrong information, the P99 does not do EQ for each driver, only each side.


Does the 99 also only have fixed bands for the EQ? So you can only adjust a particular frequency that is pre loaded, versus selecting the frequency you want and adjusting that? Is that parametric?


----------



## gijoe

deputydog95 said:


> Does the 99 also only have fixed bands for the EQ? So you can only adjust a particular frequency that is pre loaded, versus selecting the frequency you want and adjusting that? Is that parametric?


It does not have parametric EQ, only graphic at these bands:

20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 315hz, 400hz, 500hz, 630Hz, 800hz, 1k, 1.25k, 1.6k, 2k, 2.5k, 3.15k, 4k, 5k, 6.3k, 8k, 10k, 12.5k, 16k, 20k 

A standalone DSP would be more powerful, BUT only in the right hands. If you cannot make the P99 sound incredible, then the extra tools of a stand alone DSP will be wasted. On paper the DSP in the P99 falls short, but in practice you have more than enough to take home trophies, if that's the level you're looking for.


----------



## sq2k1

Yes the P99RS has fixed bands as it is a graphic eq based on left/right versus each independent driver. A parametric eq would allow you to pick the frequency and the Q of the band to determine how narrow or wide the band is.


----------



## DPGstereo

.


How are you getting the best sound quality from hi-rez files?

Using a hi-rez player like, Fiio X7....(bluetooth, digital RCA & Toslink output):

Bluetooth though 99RS to Aerospace, analog?
Bluetooth to Aerospace, using Mosconi's internal bluetooth module?
Hard wired digital Toslink/Coaxial to Aerospace?



.


----------



## avanti1960

Update 11/23/17
Going on 6 years of use and the P99 is still going strong! 

Latest lesson learned- DO NOT USE DIFFERENT AMPS FOR FRONT ACTIVE SPEAKERS!!!!
A recent bout of bad luck with my JL Audio slash amp that was driving the front midwoofers led to an awesome discovery. 
The Class AB slash amp developed an intermittent issue of introducing "morse code" like noise (no other way to describe it). 
I was feeding the midrange and tweeters with the JL audio 5 channel HD amp (Class D). 
So I took a set of channels from the HD amp and connected them to the midwoofers. 

What an amazing change to the sound. More "coherent", transparent and seemed to remedy some issues that sounded like phase misalignment at midrange frequencies. 

Moral of the story- USE THE SAME AMP (or multiple of the same amp) FOR YOUR ACTIVE SPEAKERS. I had been living with good but not the best sound for all these years!


----------



## RRizz

Different amps had nothing to do with it.


----------



## starfox5194

Is the P99rs worth the upgrade over the DEH 80prs? I really like that the 80 has built in bluetooth for when I get a phone call. 

Has anyone tried the Japanese P99RS? What are your thoughts? Worth the upgrade?


----------



## rc10mike

avanti1960 said:


> Update 11/23/17
> Going on 6 years of use and the P99 is still going strong!
> 
> Latest lesson learned- DO NOT USE DIFFERENT AMPS FOR FRONT ACTIVE SPEAKERS!!!!
> A recent bout of bad luck with my JL Audio slash amp that was driving the front midwoofers led to an awesome discovery.
> The Class AB slash amp developed an intermittent issue of introducing "morse code" like noise (no other way to describe it).
> I was feeding the midrange and tweeters with the JL audio 5 channel HD amp (Class D).
> So I took a set of channels from the HD amp and connected them to the midwoofers.
> 
> What an amazing change to the sound. More "coherent", transparent and seemed to remedy some issues that sounded like phase misalignment at midrange frequencies.
> 
> Moral of the story- USE THE SAME AMP (or multiple of the same amp) FOR YOUR ACTIVE SPEAKERS. I had been living with good but not the best sound for all these years!


I have had similar issues in the past with my JL HD 600/4 picking up "noises" whenever I ran a Class D sub amp. The problem went away when I switched to a A/B sub amp.


----------



## avanti1960

RRizz said:


> Different amps had nothing to do with it.


Not the noises, of course. When I pulled the JL slash amp from the system and connected the JL HD amp to all of the speaker drivers the sound improved. When the slash amp was working fine the sound quality was affected by pairing the slash and HD amps to drive the front door speakers. 
When all of the active drivers (mid woofer, midrange, tweeter) were driven by the sama amp, the sound improved quite a bit.


----------



## avanti1960

starfox5194 said:


> Is the P99rs worth the upgrade over the DEH 80prs? I really like that the 80 has built in bluetooth for when I get a phone call.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Japanese P99RS? What are your thoughts? Worth the upgrade?


The P99 has 8 channels and a L/R 32 band equalizer vs. the 6 channel 16 band 80. For me, I need those features for a fully active installation which us the level of total sound quality.


----------



## RRizz

avanti1960 said:


> Not the noises, of course. When I pulled the JL slash amp from the system and connected the JL HD amp to all of the speaker drivers the sound improved. When the slash amp was working fine the sound quality was affected by pairing the slash and HD amps to drive the front door speakers.
> When all of the active drivers (mid woofer, midrange, tweeter) were driven by the sama amp, the sound improved quite a bit.


That may be true, but to say that your system will sound better if you drive your front stage off of the SAME amp will make it sound better than mixing different amps, of any make or model, just isn't true.


----------



## sqnut

avanti1960 said:


> Not the noises, of course. When I pulled the JL slash amp from the system and connected the JL HD amp to all of the speaker drivers the sound improved. When the slash amp was working fine the sound quality was affected by pairing the slash and HD amps to drive the front door speakers.
> When all of the active drivers (mid woofer, midrange, tweeter) were driven by the sama amp, the sound improved quite a bit.


That is just flat out wrong.


----------



## gijoe

starfox5194 said:


> Is the P99rs worth the upgrade over the DEH 80prs? I really like that the 80 has built in bluetooth for when I get a phone call.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Japanese P99RS? What are your thoughts? Worth the upgrade?


As far as head units go, the P99 is much better than the 80prs, but there are some conditions.

The P99 car run a 4-way active setup, while the 80prs can only do a 3-way active setup. Does that matter? A 3-way active setup can sound incredibly, competition winning incredible. So in the hands of most people, the P99 won't get them any better sound. In the hands of someone with experience, or plenty of time, the P99 can sound better than the P99. Tuning a 3-way is tough, tuning a 4-way is even tougher. You don't don't have the time, patience, and interest in using an RTA to tune the P99 to truly take advantage of it's features and optimize the system, then you can get 95% as good, with a lot less work if you buy the 80prs. 

Keep in mind that to even run the 4-way setup, you not only have to buy the P99 (in this comparison) but you have to buy 2 more channels of amplification, 2 more speakers, and all of the installation accessories, so it gets even more expensive than the price difference between the P99 and the 80prs. 

The build quality of the P99 is far better. It looks better, it feels better, the knobs and buttons are sturdy. The 80prs feels cheap, and looks a bit cheap too, compared to the P99. 

So, is the upgrade worth it?


----------



## mathilassi

benny z said:


> yes.


Hi!

What cable do you use?
I've tried Apple's generic cable and I cannot get it to play anything... Tried with Apple Music, Tidal and Spotify. But no sound via the USB cable....


----------



## mathilassi

jeremiahmeister said:


> Thanks, I already tested it with 7 and it works correctly, I just need to check with the plus models.


Hi!

What cable do you use to get audio and playback control?
I've tried the generic apple iPhone cable but it does not playback anything from Apple Music, Spotify or Tidal!...

Please help...


----------



## avanti1960

sqnut said:


> That is just flat out wrong.


Not for my installation and setup. I have read before (including this site) to try and use the same amp (or multiples of the same amp) for active speakers. Not necessarily for sub-woofers or low crossover frequencies for midrange to misbass- example 200-400 Hz.

But in my system using a different amp up to a relatively high 800Hz crossover frequency and then using another amp for 800 Hz and up introduced some phase and timing issues that I could simply not get rid of. I only discovered this by accident when I replaced the first amplifier with existing channels of the second amp. 
I don't know if it was caused by the different topologies (class AB and Class D) or different internal "timing" for signal delivery but the difference was noticeable. At the 800Hz crossover the system sounded much better when the same type of amp was driving each set of speakers.


----------



## SO20thCentury

Combing thru the manual & all 43 pages of this thread I didn't see any mention of a quick temporary way to shut sound-processing off. To recheck the MS-A amps input levels. Hate the idea of reset & inputting settings all over again.

Also do the different listening positions share the same crossovers/ levels/EQ or can it be varied?

Thanks, Avanti, for sharing your experience here!


----------



## movingzachb

Why can't the Auto EQ on the 80PRS work right? most posts I've seen on here that refer to that on the 80 PRS say it muffles the sound horribly and they have to disable it. Not sure what the deal is there. Is there a simple write up anywhere that shows the differences between this unit and the 80 PRS?


----------



## benny z

movingzachb said:


> Why can't the Auto EQ on the 80PRS work right? most posts I've seen on here that refer to that on the 80 PRS say it muffles the sound horribly and they have to disable it. Not sure what the deal is there. Is there a simple write up anywhere that shows the differences between this unit and the 80 PRS?




Because a house curve, by design, has a hard roll off up top...which comes off “muffled” by comparison to those who don’t use a house curve.


----------



## gijoe

movingzachb said:


> Why can't the Auto EQ on the 80PRS work right? most posts I've seen on here that refer to that on the 80 PRS say it muffles the sound horribly and they have to disable it. Not sure what the deal is there. Is there a simple write up anywhere that shows the differences between this unit and the 80 PRS?


The Auto EQ doesn't work well on any of the Pioneer head units (P99, 80PRS, 800, 880), it's not just the 80prs. I certainly wouldn't say it muffles the sound, it always leaves the highs way too hot, so the tweeters always need to be taken down several notches. It does a fairly decent job matching the left and right EQ, but a proper mic and RTA software go a lot further. It does a decent job in some areas, but with some time you can definitely do a better job manually.


----------



## DPGstereo

.

Anyone tested or know the volume level at which the _*P99RS*_ will clip (from *Sub* output, when fully boosted _*+6dB*_)?

.


----------



## gijoe

I'm not sure it was tested the boost maxed (because, why?).

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...rs-pioneer-deh-p9-pioneer-800prs-testing.html

It doesn't clip with a 1khz tone.


----------



## FlyingEagle

I had to ask if Crutchfield.ca could get a hold of equipment that was listed at Crutchfield.com, more specifically the Pioneer DEX-P99RS; they said yes!

It came with customs fees and all the extra would-be cost of getting it to a door on the Canadian side of the border. Comes in around $1629. It was previously not listed on their site, as it had likely either never been populated due to low demand, or dropped off the site for the same reason.

I bought a P01 from an Ebay seller in Japan. I do not regret buying it this way. My auction which did not include the separate amp, mic and some parts of the amp wiring, cost me $538 USD ($599 CDN) not including any import/duties. I payed another $70 USD (ebay seller paid shipping due a wording issue in the advert that should have included the amp and mic, etc) to get the amp and related install gear. The only thing I was missing is the angle brackets to mount the amp somewhere ... Home Depot for basic cabinet hinges/brackets and you are off to the races, and no one will see them for the most part. Whether or not I need more than the ~24 watts RMS the amp is supported to produce, is another story, but it allows me to tweak things outside of the car or run the system during the dead of winter without having to do the full install at sub zero temps ... -20C or even 0C for that matter. I have a 2.1 setup now running in the family room, using a car battery and a battery charger. It is a balmy 21C when I choose to sit and turn up the heat.

I did buy all my installation gear from Crutchfield, and that allows the interface to the stock radio/speaker wires for the temporary installation, an antenna adapter because of the strange Motorola interconnect and a faceplate kit to allow a Subaru 2 din rework.

Lastly was the acquisition of a Kiwi built radio frequency expander to bring the 76-91 frequency range up to the international 88-108 spec. Not sure how weird it will be trying to tune with the frequency numbers not changing on the faceplate, but if it lands on country music I know I have to go back up or down to get to something listenable. wink wink


----------



## Vx220

All being well, a shiny new P99RS will arrive tomorrow, and as I'm less than halfway through this thread I thought I'd add a quick question...

...the thread talks about iPod classics etc, storing CD quality music. I'd prefer something non-Apple (just because) so what's the best way to do this through the Pioneer's usb?

Not worried about changing tracks through the headunit, just the best way to store CDs. Any info on the best way to rip them would be good as well!

Thanks in advance, apologies if I come across an up-to-date answer as I read


----------



## RRizz

I have a 32 GB flash drive in. probably close to 2000 songs on it, all cds that were ripped to my laptop over the years. Put her on random play, and off we go.


----------



## gijoe

Vx220 said:


> All being well, a shiny new P99RS will arrive tomorrow, and as I'm less than halfway through this thread I thought I'd add a quick question...
> 
> ...the thread talks about iPod classics etc, storing CD quality music. I'd prefer something non-Apple (just because) so what's the best way to do this through the Pioneer's usb?
> 
> Not worried about changing tracks through the headunit, just the best way to store CDs. Any info on the best way to rip them would be good as well!
> 
> Thanks in advance, apologies if I come across an up-to-date answer as I read




"This unit can play MP3, WMA, AAC, and/or WAV files stored on a USB Mass Storage device in FAT16 or FAT32 file system formats. MP3 files with a bit rate from 8-320 kbps, AAC files with a bit rate of 16-320 kbps, WMA files with a constant bit rate from 48-320 kbps, and WMA files with a variable bit rate from 48-384 kbps are supported. The unit is compatible with ID3 Tags and will display artist, folder, file, and album name, plus comments. Up to 8 directories, 500 folders, and 15000 files per USB device are recognized by this unit. USB portable audio players that can be charged via USB will be charged when plugged into the CD receiver's USB port and the vehicle's ignition switch is set to ACC or on."


----------



## Beherit

Hi Guys, is it possible to double stack this headunit with a another source ? I.E: 1 Din 7" headunit pre out ---》 Aux in via IP Bus Aux connector P99RS ? 

That way I could have the PRS 99R and the flexibility of using Nav or phone MHL with it .


----------



## Clonew1972

avanti1960 said:


> View attachment 34364
> 
> 
> View attachment 34365
> 
> 
> View attachment 34366
> 
> 
> Installed it on Saturday Feb. 18th.
> 
> Biggest discoveries after a couple of days to listen-
> 
> 1) The quality of the sub bass is as good as I could ever want and matches exactly my preference for excellent subwoofer bass. It sounds so much deeper, tighter, fuller, more accurate and correct than my previous head unit (Pioneer DEH-P8300UB). I didn' change the amp, the gains, nothing. Just the headunit and one complete auto tune session with custom network.
> I don't know where the credit should go but I have to believe the ultra steep cutoff slope at the crossover provided by the units processing (80Hz, 36db per octave) has really tightened it up immensely. This improvement leaves me unbelievably impressed. This head unit all at once made my subwoofer and amp that much better.
> 
> 2) Just one auto EQ yields much better sound, stage, accuracy, centering, clarity etc. than the best tune I could achieve with several months owning my old head unit.
> 
> 3) I ditched the auto time alignment. It seriously detracted from the sound. I will revisit some form of manual TA as time allows- but with former head units I never found it to be a plus.
> 
> 4) Biggest so far- the clarity of the sound allows the volume to be turned up significantly louder without fatigue or harshness! Again, no change in amp or gain settings- the ultra clean signal this source unit puts out lets me really really crank the volume much more than my old head unit.
> This tells me that a "good" head unit with decent specs is not all it is cracked up to be- and that specs do not tell the whole story. I thought my old deck was a decent sounding CD player and pre-amp, it had great SN specs, had a 24 bit DAC, etc. just that it didn't have audiophile features like parametric EQ, time alignment, etc. It had 5 channels, adjustable high and low pass filters, subwoofer level, etc.
> The DEX 99-PRS literally blows the old head unit out of the water- it made my amp and speakers so much better and louder!
> It is really unbelievable and a bonus that I was not expecting.


Well i like how it locks, but could u tell me what car is that ? i have an Mitsubishi Outlander 2011 and it lock pretty close to your car!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Can anyone confirm that the iPhone X works with the P99? I'm thinking of upgrading from my iPhone 6, but only if I know it will work correctly, especially with Spotify.


----------



## benny z

Architect7 said:


> Can anyone confirm that the iPhone X works with the P99? I'm thinking of upgrading from my iPhone 6, but only if I know it will work correctly, especially with Spotify.




It does.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

benny z said:


> It does.


THANK YOU! That is awesome, I'm glad Apple didn't mess up the integration with all the other weird changes they've made.


----------



## benny z

Architect7 said:


> THANK YOU! That is awesome, I'm glad Apple didn't mess up the integration with all the other weird changes they've made.




No prob. I used an iPhone X with one just yesterday. No problems at all.


----------



## juanR

HI, new here im about to use the Pr99rs as 4 way active but with tweet, midbass, rear coaxial and subwoofer, lets see what i can make


----------



## EFMax

Having been out of the loop for ten years, I have just, as we speak, got back into car audio and treated myself to a new DEX P99RS.

The learning curve was steep but well worth it. In my current car, a VW Touran, this is the first time I have kept things mega simple. A set of actively run co-ax 4in front speakers in a custom made enclosure and face into the car so nothing facing the windscreen. I do have a centre channel (same 4in brand and running +ve to +ve off the midrange channel) which faces the roof of the front but not aimed at the windscreen. A set of 8in speakers mounted in the door running in mono from 50Hz - 250Hz on -18dB slop at 50hz and a -6dB slope at 250Hz. I then have a box that I designed and made myself with 2x 15in in one of my Three Chambers Dual Reflex Boxes.

I have found the headunit just out of this world in terms of configuration and quality of service. I am still fiddling but for me, the high point has been the ability to set up the crossovers and slopes to my choices - 

For my car I have picked, after careful listening the following settings -
SUBS - 25Hz @-18dB /slope to 63Hz @-12dB /slope
FRONT BASS - 50Hz @-24dB /slope to 250Hz @-6dB /slope
FRONT MIDS - 125Hz @-12dB /slope to 5KHz @-12dB /slope
FRONT TOPS - 4KHz @-18dB /slope to 20KHz - flat pass

At the mo I am running everything flat with zero equalisation and zero time alignment and I am just so happy with the performance as the above settings give me no stress on any of the speakers at 75% vol levels with appropriate gain settings.

In time I will play a little more with the eq settings but something tells me that with an EMMA 2018 CD, it is gonna be hard to improve what I can hear but this headunit is just amazing.

In my last car, I had the lovely SONY CR90 unit plus the SONY DSP unit and 2x Audio Control EQT plus their Epicentre and I can say from experience, replacing all of that with just the P99RS has been worth it and much easier to tailor my system to match my ears..


----------



## movingzachb

EFMax said:


> Having been out of the loop for ten years, I have just, as we speak, got back into car audio and treated myself to a new DEX P99RS.
> 
> The learning curve was steep but well worth it. In my current car, a VW Touran, this is the first time I have kept things mega simple. A set of actively run co-ax 4in front speakers in a custom made enclosure and face into the car so nothing facing the windscreen. I do have a centre channel (same 4in brand and running +ve to +ve off the midrange channel) which faces the roof of the front but not aimed at the windscreen. A set of 8in speakers mounted in the door running in mono from 50Hz - 250Hz on -18dB slop at 50hz and a -6dB slope at 250Hz. I then have a box that I designed and made myself with 2x 15in in one of my Three Chambers Dual Reflex Boxes.
> 
> I have found the headunit just out of this world in terms of configuration and quality of service. I am still fiddling but for me, the high point has been the ability to set up the crossovers and slopes to my choices -
> 
> For my car I have picked, after careful listening the following settings -
> SUBS - 25Hz @-18dB /slope to 63Hz @-12dB /slope
> FRONT BASS - 50Hz @-24dB /slope to 250Hz @-6dB /slope
> FRONT MIDS - 125Hz @-12dB /slope to 5KHz @-12dB /slope
> FRONT TOPS - 4KHz @-18dB /slope to 20KHz - flat pass
> 
> At the mo I am running everything flat with zero equalisation and zero time alignment and I am just so happy with the performance as the above settings give me no stress on any of the speakers at 75% vol levels with appropriate gain settings.
> 
> In time I will play a little more with the eq settings but something tells me that with an EMMA 2018 CD, it is gonna be hard to improve what I can hear but this headunit is just amazing.
> 
> In my last car, I had the lovely SONY CR90 unit plus the SONY DSP unit and 2x Audio Control EQT plus their Epicentre and I can say from experience, replacing all of that with just the P99RS has been worth it and much easier to tailor my system to match my ears.


Are there any major differences between the 99PRS and 80PRS?

I have had the 80 PRS since 2013 and I have been every so slowly learning how to set all the network mode frequencies. I know that the 80PRS allows you to run a set of high mid and lows on network mode. Does the 99 PRS allow you to run any additional speakers channels? What are the major differences?

Well I found this so maybe this will answer my question.
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-251Ab...5nYFHutTzReq9U6pVzCfnBMmhrZl3uQwaApXYEALw_wcB

The one thing that I have wanted to do every since I got my 80PRS is add a second set of high and mid range speakers but it only allows for one set. I am running now with high/mid in front and another set of mids in the rear. (no subwoofer). I get enough bass but yes I can tell there is a lot I am missing without anything connected to the low inputs (sub).


----------



## gijoe

movingzachb said:


> Are there any major differences between the 99PRS and 80PRS?
> 
> I have had the 80 PRS since 2013 and I have been every so slowly learning how to set all the network mode frequencies. I know that the 80PRS allows you to run a set of high mid and lows on network mode. Does the 99 PRS allow you to run any additional speakers channels? What are the major differences?


The primary difference (besides the p99 looking and feeling much nicer than the 80prs) is that the 80prs is only 3 way active capable, and the p99 is 4 way active capable. The P99 does NOT process center channels, or differential rear fill.


----------



## movingzachb

gijoe said:


> The primary difference (besides the p99 looking and feeling much nicer than the 80prs) is that the 80prs is only 3 way active capable, and the p99 is 4 way active capable. The P99 does NOT process center channels, or differential rear fill.


I gotta ask. Does the 99PRS have a faster fast forward/search option (when listening to large lossless file formats than the PRS 90? I listen to mix sets often and I want to fast forward to a point in that set - yet it is so very slow to do that on the 80PRS. Ahh that 4 way active. I see do one of the 4 way active channels allow you to run a second set of mid range speakers?


----------



## gijoe

movingzachb said:


> I gotta ask. Does the 99PRS have a faster fast forward/search option (when listening to large lossless file formats than the PRS 90? I listen to mix sets often and I want to fast forward to a point in that set - yet it is so very slow to do that on the 80PRS. Ahh that 4 way active. I see do one of the 4 way active channels allow you to run a second set of mid range speakers?


If you're asking about quickly fast forwarding through a particular track, I'm not sure, I never did a lot of that. A typical 4 way active setup is tweeters, midrange (usually 2-4"), midbass (usually 6.5-8"), and sub(s).


----------



## EFMax

movingzachb said:


> The one thing that I have wanted to do every since I got my 80PRS is add a second set of high and mid range speakers but it only allows for one set. I am running now with high/mid in front and another set of mids in the rear. (no subwoofer). I get enough bass but yes I can tell there is a lot I am missing without anything connected to the low inputs (sub).


I am guessing that this unit (P99RS) was designed with the classic belief that a high-end system only has a front stage and rear sub and to that end, they saw no reason to put in the stages you would have loved to have seen.

Based on having no internal amplification the P99RS then to run a 6-way or 7-way setup would be quite expensive, even in the 80PRS version, this would have been complicated and not cheap.


----------



## movingzachb

EFMax said:


> I am guessing that this unit (P99RS) was designed with the classic belief that a high-end system only has a front stage and rear sub and to that end, they saw no reason to put in the stages you would have loved to have seen.
> 
> Based on having no internal amplification the P99RS then to run a 6-way or 7-way setup would be quite expensive, even in the 80PRS version, this would have been complicated and not cheap.


Right. I have been in standard mode for a long time then went back and fourth for a while - experimenting. So yeah I have been trying to squeeze as much as I can with network mode.

I didn't want to do it this way to begin with - but after brain storming for far too long (didn't want to buy a DSP and spent more money). I just said **** it.. lets see what happens.
2x 6.5" components in the front
2x 6.5" in the rear deck

One 4 channel amp powering the front stage.
One 4 channel amp (bridged) running the rear set.

I am using a 1 male to 2 female RCA Y connector from the mid-range output to the bridged amp. I had to turn the gain up on the bridged amp to compensate for low signal but it .. well works. I just have no sub.


----------



## RRizz

movingzachb said:


> Are there any major differences between the 99PRS and 80PRS?
> 
> I have had the 80 PRS since 2013 and I have been every so slowly learning how to set all the network mode frequencies. I know that the 80PRS allows you to run a set of high mid and lows on network mode. Does the 99 PRS allow you to run any additional speakers channels? What are the major differences?
> 
> Well I found this so maybe this will answer my question.
> https://www.crutchfield.com/S-251Ab...5nYFHutTzReq9U6pVzCfnBMmhrZl3uQwaApXYEALw_wcB
> 
> The one thing that I have wanted to do every since I got my 80PRS is add a second set of high and mid range speakers but it only allows for one set. I am running now with high/mid in front and another set of mids in the rear. (no subwoofer). I get enough bass but yes I can tell there is a lot I am missing without anything connected to the low inputs (sub).


 31 Band independent L/R EQ also.


----------



## gijoe

RRizz said:


> 31 Band independent L/R EQ also.


The 80PRS has independent L/R EQ also, but I don't remember how many bands.


----------



## EFMax

gijoe said:


> The 80PRS has independent L/R EQ also, but I don't remember how many bands.


If you run a fully active system then the P99RS allows you to run a 31 band EQ on each channel so could have the EQ on the tweeters totally independent from the midrange on the same side.. though without an RTA machine I am guessing setting things up could be a right headache.


----------



## gijoe

EFMax said:


> If you run a fully active system then the P99RS allows you to run a 31 band EQ on each channel so could have the EQ on the tweeters totally independent from the midrange on the same side.. though without an RTA machine I am guessing setting things up could be a right headache.


Nope, you have independent EQ for each side, not each channel. For the most part that doesn't matter since you have the frequencies crossed, but the P99RS does not do EQ per channel, just per side.

The "headache" is the entire point of these head units, haha. Using the DSP that's built in to optimize the sound is what makes them special, running them in standard mode to a set of passive components is a waste of what makes this head unit more desirable than others.


----------



## RRizz

16 bands, if I'm not mistaken


----------



## EFMax

gijoe said:


> Nope, you have independent EQ for each side, not each channel. For the most part that doesn't matter since you have the frequencies crossed, but the P99RS does not do EQ per channel, just per side.
> 
> .


Yes you are right I was getting confused with the individual settings in the time alignment section.


----------



## EFMax

*CD Multi-player: Pioneer XDV P9*

CD Multi-player: Pioneer XDV P9

I have one of these units with my P99R

Every time I switch the headset of off, when I switch it back on again, the CD in the player will start from where it was last played but the Multi-Player always starts from disc one when it is selected and not the last played - is this down to the wiring on the power cables or is this a normal feature of this unit.?


----------



## EFMax

*Auto EQ without Auto TA question..*

Can someone tell me if it is possible to Auto EQ without TA... I have probably missed the obvious but seem unable to do this, any help appreciate


----------



## gijoe

*Re: Auto EQ without Auto TA question..*



EFMax said:


> Can someone tell me if it is possible to Auto EQ without TA... I have probably missed the obvious but seem unable to do this, any help appreciate


You can run the auto tune, which will set EQ and TA, but you can turn each off independently. Although, you're much better off tuning manually, the auto tune rarely gives optimal results. You can use it as a baseline to tune from, but to really make it sound it's best you'll want to tune manually.


----------



## EFMax

*Re: Auto EQ without Auto TA question..*



gijoe said:


> You can run the auto tune, which will set EQ and TA, but you can turn each off independently. Although, you're much better off tuning manually, the auto tune rarely gives optimal results. You can use it as a baseline to tune from, but to really make it sound it's best you'll want to tune manually.


Cheers... When I ran an Audio Control RTA machine in the car, it was interesting.. in the end, I had a mate who is an audio thekky geek and he tuned in the car by his ears and I must admit, he did a pretty good job - I was almost to shy to tell him in case his head got too big.

I am now finding with my setup, that I can run the from 20hz -1Khz pretty much flat and then very slowly increase from 1Khz - 5Khz in 0.5dB movements and hen between 5Khz - 20Khz between 0.5dB-3dB - BUT some finer tuning is still required as I am striving for a near headphone like performance..


----------



## gijoe

*Re: Auto EQ without Auto TA question..*



EFMax said:


> Cheers... When I ran an Audio Control RTA machine in the car, it was interesting.. in the end, I had a mate who is an audio thekky geek and he tuned in the car by his ears and I must admit, he did a pretty good job - I was almost to shy to tell him in case his head got too big.
> 
> I am now finding with my setup, that I can run the from 20hz -1Khz pretty much flat and then very slowly increase from 1Khz - 5Khz in 0.5dB movements and hen between 5Khz - 20Khz between 0.5dB-3dB - BUT some finer tuning is still required as I am striving for a near headphone like performance..


Headphone performance is only possible with headphones. Although, you can get killer staging and imagining with the tuning features of this head unit. The DSP in the P99RS is "limited" compared to standalone DSP's, but it has more than enough power to make a pretty amazing system. If you know how to use it, you can make it sound pretty awesome. Most people never fully learn to optimize it before going to a standalone DSP because they "need more processing."


----------



## EFMax

*Re: Auto EQ without Auto TA question..*



gijoe said:


> Headphone performance is only possible with headphones. Although, you can get killer staging and imagining with the tuning features of this head unit. The DSP in the P99RS is "limited" compared to standalone DSP's, but it has more than enough power to make a pretty amazing system. If you know how to use it, you can make it sound pretty awesome. Most people never fully learn to optimize it before going to a standalone DSP because they "need more processing."



Of course, you are correct - Having moved away from a bootful of Audio Control Gadgets it would be interesting to imagine and see just what a full blown DSP could do over and beyond where the P99RS is at - and I agree, when max'ed out, this headunit can do some quite amazing things.. for me, it has given me a way better system than my previous EMMA competing system and done so with a lot less equipment..


----------



## EFMax

Have to say, with the help of other members in this page, that I have finally stopped tweaking and now just listen to my music. It has taken like forever to get to this point and I am very happy with the final setup - but out of curiosity, has anyone added any additional DSP or other electronics into the chain to try and further tweak their system or do we all just get to a point where the DEX P99RS is just left alone cos you are all happy..?


----------



## mark3004

I had P99 for few months, but I can say it is one of the best single din HU on earth. 
The only lack of this unit is the usb music management. No Flac, and above all only 500 of total folders/subfolder limit, even your HDD or pen drive is within maximum allowed size (250GB).


----------



## gijoe

EFMax said:


> Have to say, with the help of other members in this page, that I have finally stopped tweaking and now just listen to my music. It has taken like forever to get to this point and I am very happy with the final setup - but out of curiosity, has anyone added any additional DSP or other electronics into the chain to try and further tweak their system or do we all just get to a point where the DEX P99RS is just left alone cos you are all happy..?


Adding an additional DSP will do very little, especially for most people. The P99 has just about everything you could possibly need to win contests (if that was the goal). It does lack a couple of things like parametric EQ and EQ per channel, instead of per side. Parametric could potentially be helpful, but the graphic EQ is powerful enough that you certainly don't need it. Having independent EQ per channel instead of per side would be slightly better, but not significant. It would really only be an advantage around the crossover points, but the combination of crossover points, slopes, and the EQ you do have is plenty.

I think the only time extra processing would be advantageous is for highly skilled expert tuners who can very comfortably take full advantage of the P99's processing and need a couple more tools, for the vast majority of people, adding a processor will complicate things and would almost certainly cause more trouble than it would fix.


----------



## diebenkorn

So my five year old P99 taunts me with a blinking red light and no desire to power up, tried changing fuse in fuse box, tried reset and finally took it to a shop where they declared it dead. Contacted Pioneer said I could send to a shop in syracuse but wanted to see if anyone had any recommendations or thoughts about the best thing to do with the ol P99?


----------



## RRizz

get an estimate... whats the worst that could happen?


----------



## foreman

The shop in syracuse is good. Theyre authorized and have a great track record.


----------



## bnae38

schematics are floating around out there if you want to dig into it


----------



## Foghorn

Pioneer service manual 
View attachment pioneer_dex-p99rs.pdf


Hope the pdf attachment appears


----------



## benny z

foreman said:


> The shop in syracuse is good. Theyre authorized and have a great track record.


+1

My local shop installed a customer-provided P99 earlier this summer which had noise issues. They sent it to the Syracuse shop and it came back perfect.


----------



## preston

Was just dropping in on this thread and wanted to add my praise for the P99. 
Its basically a full DSP inside a high quality single DIN deck. In this day and age of screens I still like the understated, traditional look in the right vehicle. 

I'm building a truck right now that will use an external DSP and I'm really going to miss having full control at any time with a wireless remote no less. (AFAIK the only DSP's that have a full remote potential are the Alpine and ARC PS-8, and even in that case it is a larger wired unit).

However, the action of the deck is also "traditional". You need bulky wired outboard modules to add USB or satellite or bluetooth. (and I'm not sure how easy these are to find anymore). Note you need a box for each one of those functions !

Also, trying to browse files especially on USB is difficult with the small display. In the truck I have an OEM screen and it is pretty nice to browse and have favorites and stuff. 

But that's all convenience - the deck always sounds and performs amazing and once you get the hang of the "gestures", quite quick and easy to tune, and its especially great to just lay back and audition music while watching the deck and tuning with the little wireless remote in your hand hanging down naturally (as opposed to having to reach and stretch over to the deck to change settings or having a big hot and bright laptop sitting on top of you.


----------



## Montague

i see a lot of people doing this and not maximizing their noise floor.


----------



## EFMax

*New Question - Re: DEX-P99RS*

Is it possible to take the Digital output from a Fiio X7 and plug it directly into the back of my Pioneer CD Multi-Player XDV P9 which is then plugged into the back of my P99 ?

Cheers..

UPDATE:
please ignore my question - just pull things apart and to one side for a closer inspection - the XDV P9 does not have Optical input it is Optical output so that dream is gonna stop right there... as least from the point of view of having a digital to digital game plan...


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## Justang99

Anyone tried one of these Bluetooth adapters??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bluetooth-...one-iPod-Smartphone-Audio-Input-/112057649175


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## Hanatsu

Anyone seen the little "car" symbol on the display right above the voltage digits?

Know what it is? Never seen it before, something to do with the FM radio? I reconnected my antenna and it been flashing on and off like crazy ever since. Can't find anything in the manual.


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## Elektra

gijoe said:


> Adding an additional DSP will do very little, especially for most people. The P99 has just about everything you could possibly need to win contests (if that was the goal). It does lack a couple of things like parametric EQ and EQ per channel, instead of per side. Parametric could potentially be helpful, but the graphic EQ is powerful enough that you certainly don't need it. Having independent EQ per channel instead of per side would be slightly better, but not significant. It would really only be an advantage around the crossover points, but the combination of crossover points, slopes, and the EQ you do have is plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only time extra processing would be advantageous is for highly skilled expert tuners who can very comfortably take full advantage of the P99's processing and need a couple more tools, for the vast majority of people, adding a processor will complicate things and would almost certainly cause more trouble than it would fix.




I inadvertently ended up using the Helix Pro MKii with the P99 because I had the Sony GS9 in the car before - what I do like is using just one RCA cable to the DSP instead of 4 - also I am curious the Helix has 32bit dacs etc and higher bit DSP chips etc... 

The sound will be slightly different with the DSP as a posed to without the DSP

Would the Helix/P99 combo sound better than just a stand alone P99?

Also the MKii has a higher voltage (8v) as a posed to the P99 5v 

I do however find that system sounds louder than when I had the Sony in it due to the Sony having 4v? 

What’s your take...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2010hummerguy

Has anyone tried using an iPod emulator on Android to integrate with the P99 USB? I'm trying PodEMU without much luck, but it would be cool to get it to work.


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## bmmer701

Sorry for asking but how do you guys make your iphone 6s , 7 or x work in p99rs using spotify? Is there a setting that needs to be change? I tried mine i can see that the music is playing however i dont hear anything 

Do i need to update the software of the p99rs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CoLd_FuSiOn

bmmer701 said:


> Sorry for asking but how do you guys make your iphone 6s , 7 or x work in p99rs using spotify? Is there a setting that needs to be change? I tried mine i can see that the music is playing however i dont hear anything
> 
> Do i need to update the software of the p99rs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You can't upgrade the software on the p99rs, try and see if your unit plays tracks through the itunes app. If it does then it's an app related issue and you might need to use a bluetooth adapter to make it work.

If it doesn't play through itunes, try connecting the iphone cable directly in the back of the unit's usb port.


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## K-pop sucks

Just got my Deh p01 from Japan. I found out there are aftermarket plug+ RCA's available for these headunits. Lots of diy also available.


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## Nks 79

Hi all I have been using the p99 for a few years now. However, recently I have faced a major issue and that is that it Is not reading a usb . It keeps lmao giving me error19. 

I tried to plug it directly into the deck itself into the p99 but it still would not read it .

I was wondering if someone could help me out here . Should I give it to a repair shop something I really would like to avoid . Or should I reset it . 

With resetting though would all my tuning settings be erased ? Equalizer settings? 

I would really really appreciate any help here in resolving this error 19 issue . 

Thank you


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## LaserSVT

So I am on my second P99. This one has the Matt R mod. Love the deck still but its been a few years and I dont think the BTB200 likes newer phones. I mean it links and all but I have to pair it via the phone every time I restart the car now. Last one was when the Droid Turbo came out and worked fine. With my S10+, not so much.


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## avanti1960

EFMax said:


> *Re: Auto EQ without Auto TA question..*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you are correct - Having moved away from a bootful of Audio Control Gadgets it would be interesting to imagine and see just what a full blown DSP could do over and beyond where the P99RS is at - and I agree, when max'ed out, this headunit can do some quite amazing things.. for me, it has given me a way better system than my previous EMMA competing system and done so with a lot less equipment..


The biggest advantage a full blown DSP has over the DEX is to EQ individual channels and drivers. This might not seem like much but it is huge! 
Imagine your woofer has a rising, ragged response just after the crossover frequency, say this one: 
Setting a steep slope on the crossover will not be enough to get rid of the rising, ragged distorted artifacts. Steep crossovers also come with issues, such as overall coherence and blending as a system. 
If you had an EQ for that channel, you could easily reduce and flatten the response of just that driver without affecting the other drivers in the system and get rid of those nasty peaks! 









SEAS Excel W18EX-003 (E0074) 7" Graphene Cone Woofer-8 ohm


SEAS Excel W18EX-003 (E0074) 7" Graphene Cone Woofer-8 ohm




www.madisoundspeakerstore.com


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## e39 touring

LaserSVT said:


> So I am on my second P99. This one has the Matt R mod. Love the deck still but its been a few years and I dont think the BTB200 likes newer phones. I mean it links and all but I have to pair it via the phone every time I restart the car now. Last one was when the Droid Turbo came out and worked fine. With my S10+, not so much.


Try going into function menu while in BT phone source and Reg Phone. This is how my 880prs works with my BTB200


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## e39 touring

casey said:


> Yes it will play through the USB port. Sounds good too


I just bought a nice example from Feb 2010 & it won’t play sound from iPhone XR via USB. I can see the track is playing on the P99rs display but no title track info or sound.
Funny thing is, my voltage display shows xx.x instead of the actual voltage.
Do the early P99rs not work well with iPhone? Mine is the one that says HD radio ready in the faceplate (early model?)
TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CoLd_FuSiOn

e39 touring said:


> I just bought a nice example from Feb 2010 & it won’t play sound from iPhone XR via USB. I can see the track is playing on the P99rs display but no title track info or sound.
> Funny thing is, my voltage display shows xx.x instead of the actual voltage.
> Do the early P99rs not work well with iPhone? Mine is the one that says HD radio ready in the faceplate (early model?)
> TIA
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They should work fine, try using a different cable. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## e39 touring

Ok but this one worked with my 88prs.
What’s the deal with the voltage display, perhaps that is a clue?....
I’m getting the BTB200, but was excited to go directly into the DAC via USB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CoLd_FuSiOn

e39 touring said:


> Ok but this one worked with my 88prs.
> What’s the deal with the voltage display, perhaps that is a clue?....
> I’m getting the BTB200, but was excited to go directly into the DAC via USB
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Heads up on the BT it's okay for calls but the quality is okayish and you need to pair every single time with you phone which is annoying, I'd go with an aux input adapter instead and use a third party BT module

Plus try resetting your unit using a pin on the hole in the faceplate 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## e39 touring

Did the resets already.
I use BTB200 with 880prs in my third network mode car. I was also frustrated with this, but deep diving into the Function menu one can REGISTER the phone so pairing is more automated and I am pleased with audio....phone calls sound a bit loudish but whatever


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## e39 touring

e39 touring said:


> I just bought a nice example from Feb 2010 & it won’t play sound from iPhone XR via USB. I can see the track is playing on the P99rs display but no title track info or sound.
> Funny thing is, my voltage display shows xx.x instead of the actual voltage.
> Do the early P99rs not work well with iPhone? Mine is the one that says HD radio ready in the faceplate (early model?)
> TIA
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Got it! I had previously deleted iTunes and all my Apple Music from my phone because it would automatically start with that library on my 80 prs. Reinstalled iTunes, opened it while connected to usb and now 99rs usb works!
Regarding the voltage display, I just got off phone with Pioneer. The only advise they could give was check the red wire! I will because I blew a fuse when I accidentally cut the bundle with the ign on (constant fuse and HU were NOT in the circuit at the time)


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## phuoctue

Hello guys,
Seem like the P99 (and the P01 Japanese versions) have been long live since its released day 10 years now. And I am still in love with it. Just one unit that can do it all nicely, to be humble.
Pioneer seem never care to evolve this unit features to match up with technologies out there.
And me too...

I wonder during the last 10 years, if anybody has found a best way or modifications to, either:
- Feed Spotify or Tidal via some kind of raw digital signal from an Android phone into the unit to make use of its amazing DAC? 
Not via Blutooth. Just because as I am aware, the BT technology in this unit is far outdated. It use A2DP which will re-encode and compress the signal to as low as 256kbps. Losing all hi-res pieces from Spotify and Tidal.
- Or dig out a COAXIAL IN port from the unit, so it can decode the signal from the popular Digital Players?

Hope to see lots of comments to shed some lights for me. I have been in the dark for sooo long.
Thanks


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## preston

I vaguely remember someone tapping into the internal digital signal to send digital out to their DSP, but i think you'd be hard pressed to figure out a way to input digital directly INTO the unit. Although I have an EE degree, I don't mess around with electronics but it would take a real expert to put something like that together I would imagine. 
best bet would be to run it through a high quality exernal DAC and then feed it into the aux port. Obviusly adding another conversion layer, but many experts say this is trivial as long as your signal chain is high quality. Just saw a matt schaffert video where they claimed best sound quality was using a high end DAC player feeding analog into the DSP, rather than the standard head unit raw (unprocessed) digitial directly into the DSP, saying the DAC player playing high resolution and using highest quality DAC was better, even though the DSP of course has to convert it once again. Anyway food for thought.


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## phuoctue

preston said:


> I vaguely remember someone tapping into the internal digital signal to send digital out to their DSP, but i think you'd be hard pressed to figure out a way to input digital directly INTO the unit. Although I have an EE degree, I don't mess around with electronics but it would take a real expert to put something like that together I would imagine.
> best bet would be to run it through a high quality exernal DAC and then feed it into the aux port. Obviusly adding another conversion layer, but many experts say this is trivial as long as your signal chain is high quality. Just saw a matt schaffert video where they claimed best sound quality was using a high end DAC player feeding analog into the DSP, rather than the standard head unit raw (unprocessed) digitial directly into the DSP, saying the DAC player playing high resolution and using highest quality DAC was better, even though the DSP of course has to convert it once again. Anyway food for thought.


Thanks for the insights. To me, that seem way too much load for a system. Or may be not. I would need to find out more then.


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