# Why are HLCD hard to find - to buy?



## seedlings

Is there an obscure website that sells HLCD besides Image Dynamics? I understand there is a guy on here who makes horns (previously at ID), but... where does one go to 'shop' online for HLCD or compare them? Is $600 the entry price for a set? I read this article which has brand names. Maybe I just look each one up individually. 

(Sorry, I couldn't find a sticky or FAQ).

CHAD


----------



## YukonXL04

You can buy the horns and the compression drivers all over the place. But I think the custom slim car audio horns are hard to come by. 

I would like to know more as well. I loved my old hlcd setup.


----------



## SQLnovice

Subd for more info as well. Thanks OP.


----------



## seedlings

YukonXL04 said:


> You can buy the horns and the compression drivers all over the place. But I think the custom slim car audio horns are hard to come by.
> 
> I would like to know more as well. I loved my old hlcd setup.


Right. The car-audio horns play quieter toward the direct seat and louder toward the other seat.

CHAD


----------



## Eric Stevens

Sorry guys but I have been trying to launch a new brand and selling the HLCD's I designed and founded Image Dynamics with to those who know how to reach me. I should have put together a website and store many years ago but always had the new brand looming and held back. 

I have HLCD sets with drivers starting at $299 a pair up to $750.00 a pair.

Send a pm or email me eric at ejsaudio dot com


----------



## Eric Stevens

seedlings said:


> Right. The car-audio horns play quieter toward the direct seat and louder toward the other seat.
> 
> CHAD


Yes the HLCD for the car have a design that is intended for under dash mounting and with a dispersion pattern that has a cross-firing dispersion pattern that creates very good imaging and staging.


----------



## seedlings

Eric Stevens said:


> Sorry guys but I have been trying to launch a new brand and selling the HLCD's I designed and founded Image Dynamics with to those who know how to reach me. I should have put together a website and store many years ago but always had the new brand looming and held back.
> 
> I have HLCD sets with drivers starting at $299 a pair up to $750.00 a pair.
> 
> Send a pm or email me eric at ejsaudio dot com


Thanks Eric. I have already read that you're the one to contact when I'm ready - which I'm not yet. I like to learn more than I'll ever need to know before making a commitment - because funds are always tight. So, I can send you a message with questions, or you can answer them here at your leisure...

Can you walk me through feature sets and price points? I will not be competing., only want good, loud sound. I'm used to live performance stage volumes and/or IEMs. I want to hear the guitar like the 50W tube head is right next to me (not all the time, but sometimes). I'm probably not up to time alignment for a long time. 2-way front stage. If there are some peaks and valleys, that's OK. Honestly, the imaging isn't super important - just a bonus.

CHAD


----------



## Eric Stevens

seedlings said:


> Thanks Eric. I have already read that you're the one to contact when I'm ready - which I'm not yet. I like to learn more than I'll ever need to know before making a commitment - because funds are always tight. So, I can send you a message with questions, or you can answer them here at your leisure...
> 
> Can you walk me through feature sets and price points? I will not be competing., only want good, loud sound. I'm used to live performance stage volumes and/or IEMs. I want to hear the guitar like the 50W tube head is right next to me (not all the time, but sometimes). I'm probably not up to time alignment for a long time. 2-way front stage. If there are some peaks and valleys, that's OK. Honestly, the imaging isn't super important - just a bonus.
> 
> CHAD


Chad,

Glad to help you out. For general questions be glad to answer here so everyone benefits for purchase related questions please contact me by email eric @ ejsaudio dot com

Loud is not a problem at all even while sounding very good.


----------



## cajunner

since purchase questions equal vendor status, let's give Eric the chance to remain on the site and not ruffle feathers, and at the same time, not have to pay extra in fees as he pursues his new company dream at OnCore.

I would like to see a catalog of pricing for unloaded horns, I remember a while ago that you could buy the ID mini-horns a la carte for about 40 bucks each, but there must be some friction if ID the company, continues to sell HLCD's, and Eric does also.

Or, Eric can continue to produce his molds even as ID the company, retains the right to make them and support for Eric has to be low-key or on the down low...

It would be crossing a line to publish prices for the horns, as it would indicate that these aren't leftover stock from some manufacturing bonanza period, and are new construction...

and probably illuminating these important details is threading the needle so much so, that Eric himself would love to put things into a clear perspective but is hamstrung on several fronts. He's been consulting at Cadence but his work there is not promoted here, you don't see examples of his involvement in the new products, and I think it's a shame that we aren't allowed access, that transparency that creates brand loyalty to a designer and to a brand if that designer is giving his services to the brand.


Looking forward to OnCore and the neat things that have previously slipped the narrow opening for press tidbits here..


----------



## Eric Stevens

cajunner said:


> since purchase questions equal vendor status, let's give Eric the chance to remain on the site and not ruffle feathers, and at the same time, not have to pay extra in fees as he pursues his new company dream at OnCore.
> 
> I would like to see a catalog of pricing for unloaded horns, I remember a while ago that you could buy the ID mini-horns a la carte for about 40 bucks each, but there must be some friction if ID the company, continues to sell HLCD's, and Eric does also.
> 
> Or, Eric can continue to produce his molds even as ID the company, retains the right to make them and support for Eric has to be low-key or on the down low...
> 
> It would be crossing a line to publish prices for the horns, as it would indicate that these aren't leftover stock from some manufacturing bonanza period, and are new construction...
> 
> and probably illuminating these important details is threading the needle so much so, that Eric himself would love to put things into a clear perspective but is hamstrung on several fronts. He's been consulting at Cadence but his work there is not promoted here, you don't see examples of his involvement in the new products, and I think it's a shame that we aren't allowed access, that transparency that creates brand loyalty to a designer and to a brand if that designer is giving his services to the brand.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to OnCore and the neat things that have previously slipped the narrow opening for press tidbits here..


Thanks for the support, I am looking forward to my upcoming Oncore 

Horns only are more like $90 each and complete sets with nice drivers range from ~~ $300 to $700 

ID no longer sells the horns as the molds always were and remained my personal property. So when I left they stopped selling the horns.

I just dont want to abuse my privileges and on the site. I should have started a web store many years ago in hind site but I never thought things would progress so slowly.

Eric


----------



## cajunner

Eric Stevens said:


> Thanks for the support, I am looking forward to my upcoming Oncore
> 
> Horns only are more like $90 each and complete sets with nice drivers range from ~~ $300 to $700
> 
> ID no longer sells the horns as the molds always were and remained my personal property. So when I left they stopped selling the horns.
> 
> I just dont want to abuse my privileges and on the site. I should have started a web store many years ago in hind site but I never thought things would progress so slowly.
> 
> Eric


thanks for the clarification, and I don't know what the new management would think of it, but I thought the way DIYMA was hard-nosed about having to buy vendor status if anyone was selling anything, to be a less favorable approach.

It might be worth the while to find out what the new team thinks, you may be able to do a limited pre-production Oncore thread that informs the membership base with news, and once you open sales, you can advance to vendor status?

And in a sub-section of the proposed Oncore thread, you could list your horns, prices, availability and driver combinations?

Sort of a "let me put the information for the horns for now, and later you'll get the vendor money when I'm up and running" kind of thing...

they may be flexible enough to allow prospector business, actually that could be a sub section off of the manufacturer section, or child board off the industry shop talk forum...

for people who want exposure but don't have the clams to waste, a kickstarter section, audio prospecting, venture capitalist option...


----------



## seedlings

Does no one build DIY home made under-dash horns? The home audio guys build them quite often.

I do not know there was a line to cross by!asking about prices and models. Hope not to get anyone in hot water.

CHAD


----------



## rockin

I don't know how obscure it is, since they pioneered the use of HLCDs in a car, then went on to kick ass and take names in SQ competition for a long time, (I believe the Grand National retired undefeated) spawned an entire slate of horn competitors who also went on to kick ass in competition, but USD Audio's website is here and they sell horns.

http://www.usdaudio.com/


----------



## seedlings

rockin said:


> I don't know how obscure it is, since they pioneered the use of HLCDs in a car, then went on to kick ass and take names in SQ competition for a long time, (I believe the Grand National retired undefeated) spawned an entire slate of horn competitors who also went on to kick ass in competition, but USD Audio's website is here and they sell horns.
> 
> http://www.usdaudio.com/


Yes. The prices are pretty high too - but I suppose that's a luxury when you're pretty much the one brand going.

CHAD


----------



## DDfusion

Woofer sect shows 1 ID HLCD left. I would email them first.


----------



## rockin

seedlings said:


> Yes. The prices are pretty high too - but I suppose that's a luxury when you're pretty much the one brand going.
> 
> CHAD


U don't have to buy them. I was just pointing u 2 what your post described "A WEBSITE that sells horns" 

Eric Steven's horns aren't pricey IMO. Get a set of those.


----------



## seedlings

rockin said:


> U don't have to buy them. I was just pointing u 2 what your post described "A WEBSITE that sells horns"
> 
> Eric Steven's horns aren't pricey IMO. Get a set of those.


Yes. I have been in contact with him.

CHAD


----------



## Patrick Bateman

seedlings said:


> Is there an obscure website that sells HLCD besides Image Dynamics? I understand there is a guy on here who makes horns (previously at ID), but... where does one go to 'shop' online for HLCD or compare them? Is $600 the entry price for a set? I read this article which has brand names. Maybe I just look each one up individually.
> 
> (Sorry, I couldn't find a sticky or FAQ).
> 
> CHAD











Pyle PH612 is fourteen bucks. Here's how it would look in my car.









Here are Eric's waveguide, for comparison's sake.

I've been building, measuring and listening to waveguides for nearly twenty years now. I've made something like a hundred underdash HLCDs, and I've never made a set that I was 100% happy with. 

Due to that, as much as I encourage the DIY spirit, 99.9% of you guys would be better off buying a set from Eric. It's really REALLY hard to get underdash waveguides to work right, even if you understand waveguide theory. I believe Eric's waveguides were made with the assistance of Bruce Edgar, who is truly one of the greats in this field.

Then again, the Pyles are so damn cheap, it would be trivial to buy both and decide for yourself which you prefer.


----------



## oabeieo

DDfusion said:


> Woofer sect shows 1 ID HLCD left. I would email them first.


I would go directly to Eric actually. Way better prices for the same exact thing and possibly a updated driver through Eric , depending on which one they are selling because it has to be old if they still have a set.


----------



## seedlings

oabeieo said:


> I would go directly to Eric actually. Way better prices for the same exact thing and possibly a updated driver through Eric , depending on which one they are selling because it has to be old if they still have a set.


O did contact him, and he was very helpful. Turns out the driver motor on the passenger side will have to be almost exactly where my fan blower is, so I kind of abandoned the HLCD idea. I'm still thinking about a custom design that could put the motor over 6 inches. BUT... I'm also toying with widebands on the dash... too many variables. Without being able to hear any vehicle with horns under the dash or widebands on top, there are so many blind decisions! I'm not competing. But, I'm going to pay attention to see if any shows come through the Kansas City area because it would be nice to hear some vehicle with a bonafide SQ system.

I also picked up a miniDSP. The basics setup results are great! Now to get lost in the details.

CHAD


----------



## oabeieo

seedlings said:


> O did contact him, and he was very helpful. Turns out the driver motor on the passenger side will have to be almost exactly where my fan blower is, so I kind of abandoned the HLCD idea. I'm still thinking about a custom design that could put the motor over 6 inches. BUT... I'm also toying with widebands on the dash... too many variables. Without being able to hear any vehicle with horns under the dash or widebands on top, there are so many blind decisions! I'm not competing. But, I'm going to pay attention to see if any shows come through the Kansas City area because it would be nice to hear some vehicle with a bonafide SQ system.
> 
> I also picked up a miniDSP. The basics setup results are great! Now to get lost in the details.
> 
> CHAD


I would get a mini horn body from Eric , cut it down and test fit it before you say no , I bet he would send you one for testing purposes and refund you if you decided not to keep it, it's like 40 bucks for one or something like that I'll be willing to bet that you will be able to fit mini horns in anything, you can cut them down quite a bit


----------



## Patrick Bateman

seedlings said:


> O did contact him, and he was very helpful. Turns out the driver motor on the passenger side will have to be almost exactly where my fan blower is, so I kind of abandoned the HLCD idea. I'm still thinking about a custom design that could put the motor over 6 inches. BUT... I'm also toying with widebands on the dash... too many variables. Without being able to hear any vehicle with horns under the dash or widebands on top, there are so many blind decisions! I'm not competing. But, I'm going to pay attention to see if any shows come through the Kansas City area because it would be nice to hear some vehicle with a bonafide SQ system.
> 
> I also picked up a miniDSP. The basics setup results are great! Now to get lost in the details.
> 
> CHAD


To me, HLCDs are a lot of work but they're dynamic

Wide banders are inoffensive but it's difficult to get any kind of real dynamics or volume. 

A good example of this is the Cambridge computer speakers. They measure REALLY well. And they're easy to find for under $50 on CL. But they're not dynamic.


----------



## seedlings

Patrick Bateman said:


> To me, HLCDs are a lot of work but they're dynamic
> 
> Wide banders are inoffensive but it's difficult to get any kind of real dynamics or volume.


I have another thread asking about widebands with precisely this concern in mind. I'm a musician, so I'd err on dynamic range over inoffensive. Still on the fence and looking at options.

CHAD


----------



## Victor_inox

Horns is easy if you have a mold or make your own, so is brain surgery once you spent 20 years in school and then some.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

seedlings said:


> I have another thread asking about widebands with precisely this concern in mind. I'm a musician, so I'd err on dynamic range over inoffensive. Still on the fence and looking at options.
> 
> CHAD












It's a mystery to me why the car audio folks haven't adopted what is basically a universal standard these days. A small waveguide and small woofer gives you a great compromise. By loading the tweeter in a waveguide you "fix" the dynamics problems that plague widebanders. By using a shallow waveguide instead of a large horn you solve the problems that plagued designs like this:










In twenty years of doing this I've only seen one person using small waveguides along with small midranges:










But in studios, this type of setup has basically taken over. I personally don't go this route because I have a thing for Synergy horns, but I gotta admit, the two-way with a small waveguide is hard to beat. The only real issue that it has is that it's vertical directivity is poor. But that's not a real issue in a car, because you aren't standing up and sitting down. (Same reason it's good in a studio.)


----------



## Victor_inox

People do as marketing departments of big corporation tell them. why is that surprising?
what is wrong with that JBL butt cheeks design? I loved mine while I`ve had them.
BTW nice choice of monitors, Lome `em genelecs, used to work on 1037, best sound under 15 grand


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Victor_inox said:


> People do as marketing departments of big corporation tell them. why is that surprising?
> what is wrong with that JBL butt cheeks design? I loved mine while I`ve had them.
> BTW nice choice of monitors, Lome `em genelecs, used to work on 1037, best sound under 15 grand


Nothing wrong with those old designs, except they're huge.









Thirty years ago, speakers were larger because amps were expensive and low powered. (Hoffman's Iron Law, if you want a lot of output you need to bring a big amp or a big loudspeaker.)

If all of us were using thirty year old amps we would need large loudspeakers that are three or even four-way. But due to the march of time, amps are smaller and so are loudspeakers.

It's odd that very little of this has trickled down into car audio.









Even $100 computer speakers have embraced the new paradigm of small waveguides combined with small woofers.

I guess if I had to speculate, a lot of this is probably due to the fact that many of the people who are still into car audio are in their 30s, 40s and 50s. I don't know anyone under 30 with any interest in an aftermarket stereo. And due to that, we're still focused on old technology.

(And obviously, I'm guilty of this myself - a lot of my systems are based on designs from the 90s.)


----------



## seedlings

Patrick Bateman said:


> Nothing wrong with those old designs, except they're huge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirty years ago, speakers were larger because amps were expensive and low powered. (Hoffman's Iron Law, if you want a lot of output you need to bring a big amp or a big loudspeaker.)
> 
> If all of us were using thirty year old amps we would need large loudspeakers that are three or even four-way. But due to the march of time, amps are smaller and so are loudspeakers.
> 
> It's odd that very little of this has trickled down into car audio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even $100 computer speakers have embraced the new paradigm of small waveguides combined with small woofers.
> 
> I guess if I had to speculate, a lot of this is probably due to the fact that many of the people who are still into car audio are in their 30s, 40s and 50s. I don't know anyone under 30 with any interest in an aftermarket stereo. And due to that, we're still focused on old technology.
> 
> (And obviously, I'm guilty of this myself - a lot of my systems are based on designs from the 90s.)


My dad has those JBL L250 in his living room, and the 18" matching sub!

CHAD


----------



## Victor_inox

I've had these promedia speakers in 5.1 surprising for their size. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


----------

