# Audiofrog GB vs other brands



## Elektra

Hi Guys 

How does AF GB compare against other brands - let's say Focal Kit 6 and 7 or Dynaudio Esotar and Scanspeak Revelator 

I can get the GB10 and GB60 and GS610C... for a decent price BNIB 

But I have never heard them and I would love an opinion on these from guys who have used them

Thanks for your assistance


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## MrGreen83

Let's just say I've seen 10+ guys win SQ competitions in the past 2 months using them 


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## SkizeR

Elektra said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> How does AF GB compare against other brands - let's say Focal Kit 6 and 7 or Dynaudio Esotar and Scanspeak Revelator


the mids.. id say its a toss up between the GB60, revelator, and esotar. i do know the gb60 can outdo the focal in terms of midbass performance and power handling


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## Elektra

SkizeR said:


> the mids.. id say its a toss up between the GB60, revelator, and esotar. i do know the gb60 can outdo the focal in terms of midbass performance and power handling




How's the midrange in a 2 way system - the Revelator and Focal are pretty good in that dept....


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## SkizeR

Elektra said:


> How's the midrange in a 2 way system - the Revelator and Focal are pretty good in that dept....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


they do great. i have em in my daily driver


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## Elektra

SkizeR said:


> they do great. i have em in my daily driver




If you had to run a 2 way scanspeak setup like say Revelator and illuminator beryllium tweeter for the exact same money which would you choose? 


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## SkizeR

Elektra said:


> If you had to run a 2 way scanspeak setup like say Revelator and illuminator beryllium tweeter for the exact same money which would you choose?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i would chose based on the cars interior and the install


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## Lycancatt

imo there is nothing that can touch the dynaudio 650 in a 2 way, that is one of the best midranges ever, though because of this it does lack a little on the bottom end that the scan and af drivers have more of.

from a tweeter perspective, the gb10 is a smallish tweeter where as the dyn and scan units that compare are quite a bit larger and harder to integrate from a fabrication perspective. I love the scan r3000..forget the actual number, and haven't heard a gb 10 set up that could match it..but I've only heard two af cars.


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## Elektra

Lycancatt said:


> imo there is nothing that can touch the dynaudio 650 in a 2 way, that is one of the best midranges ever, though because of this it does lack a little on the bottom end that the scan and af drivers have more of.
> 
> 
> 
> from a tweeter perspective, the gb10 is a smallish tweeter where as the dyn and scan units that compare are quite a bit larger and harder to integrate from a fabrication perspective. I love the scan r3000..forget the actual number, and haven't heard a gb 10 set up that could match it..but I've only heard two af cars.




+1 for the Dyns then and +0.5 for the Scans tweeter..


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## cms983

I cant comment on the gb60s personally yet but the gb25s sound brilliant along with the gb15s. I visited a meca event this past weekend and demo Andy's car, the arc audio Chevy volt with black edition 3way, and a Ford edge with dynaudio drivers that I didn't catch models on. All sounded amazing. I'd have to hear the same tracks on each car since they all played very different music during the demo but from what I heard, Andy's was my favorite. Could be that unreal surround effect it provides but I've never heard something so clear and accurate in my life and no T/A in the car. Honestly I don't think you could go wrong whichever direction you went except maybe focal with their outrageous pricetag on some models

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## Babs

cms983 said:


> I cant comment on the gb60s personally yet but the gb25s sound brilliant along with the gb15s. I visited a meca event this past weekend and demo Andy's car, the arc audio Chevy volt with black edition 3way, and a Ford edge with dynaudio drivers that I didn't catch models on. All sounded amazing. I'd have to hear the same tracks on each car since they all played very different music during the demo but from what I heard, Andy's was my favorite. Could be that unreal surround effect it provides but I've never heard something so clear and accurate in my life and no T/A in the car. Honestly I don't think you could go wrong whichever direction you went except maybe focal with their outrageous pricetag on some models
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


If I ever get anywhere near the left coast, I have got to find a way to get some time listening to Andy's benz. 

I tell ya also, which of those brands mentioned in the Op can you actually get in touch directly with the company, and speak directly with the guy who designed the drivers, for anything near that level of support? I know certainly as Audiofrog grows, that kind of access to Andy's help and knowledge will become a bunch more premium.. That's just the nature of business, but at present there's only a handful of companies like that in the industry where you can actually discuss with the designer/builder/owner as a small but strong company. I really dig doing business with companies like that, personally. That combined with what I've heard just in a few days with the new GB's and the well-thought hardware that comes with the drivers, there's a reason Frogs are doing really really well.


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## cms983

Babs said:


> If I ever get anywhere near the left coast, I have got to find a way to get some time listening to Andy's benz.
> 
> I tell ya also, which of those brands mentioned in the Op can you actually get in touch directly with the company, and speak directly with the guy who designed the drivers, for anything near that level of support? I know certainly as Audiofrog grows, that kind of access to Andy's help and knowledge will become a bunch more premium.. That's just the nature of business, but at present there's only a handful of companies like that in the industry where you can actually discuss with the designer/builder/owner as a small but strong company. I really dig doing business with companies like that, personally. That combined with what I've heard just in a few days with the new GB's and the well-thought hardware that comes with the drivers, there's a reason Frogs are doing really really well.


He's always traveling but I doubt he takes his Mercedes everywhere. The level of service and support Andy provides with his product is unbelievable. I don't know how he has time for everything. I feel like he genuinely enjoyed answering my questions about his car and products present and future and listening to my car. As the company grows, which it seems to be doing quickly, I'm sure it will be harder for him. 

As for the product, I find myself enjoying music I never thought I'd be listening to in my life. The vocals (especially the deep notes on country songs. I hate country by the way) are so real, the instruments crystal clear, and build quality is out of this world. They really aren't that expensive compared to some of the competition at $399 for the gb10, 15,and 25 And $799 for gb60, they are decently priced. 

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## MrGreen83

Listen....I got in a demo car at Extreme Audio here in VA....to check these out a while back. I was absolutely baffled....I was like wtf? Let me out. Lol. It literally put my setup to shame. They had done a lot of tuning of course, with an Alpine DSP. But MAN....for the price point...u can't beat it.

I even sat in their demo car that had the GS series speakers....with NO dsp....and was still blown away. If I hadn't already invested in these Mille Legends......I wouldn't hesitate for a second to grab the Frogs.

(I'm secretly waiting on my Mille's to blow or fail in some sort of way....to give me an excuse to switch lol) 


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## Babs

MrGreen83 said:


> Listen....I got in a demo car at Extreme Audio here in VA....to check these out a while back. I was absolutely baffled....I was like wtf? Let me out. Lol. It literally put my setup to shame. They had done a lot of tuning of course, with an Alpine DSP. But MAN....for the price point...u can't beat it.
> 
> I even sat in their demo car that had the GS series speakers....with NO dsp....and was still blown away. If I hadn't already invested in these Mille Legends......I wouldn't hesitate for a second to grab the Frogs.
> 
> (I'm secretly waiting on my Mille's to blow or fail in some sort of way....to give me an excuse to switch lol)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's interesting.. Got to hear some Mille's in rather nice setup and I thought they were quite capable. Supposedly somewhere between the Voce and Thesis Audisons I'm told, so that's nothing to sneeze at. 

But yeah I have to admit I've been giggling like a kid driving around with the frogs now. 


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## OldNewb

I find it hard to believe a speaker can be this good. I guess it's something I'd have to install and setup myself. But I don't think I can let my Dyna go that easy


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## MrGreen83

OldNewb said:


> I find it hard to believe a speaker can be this good. I guess it's something I'd have to install and setup myself. But I don't think I can let my Dyna go that easy




Take u about 30 mins to go to ur local shop and get a demo 


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## cms983

I'd imagine it's not that easy to find a demo of these at a shop. I haven't heard anyone's but my own and Andy's car. Let's just say I have work to do lol

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## MrGreen83

cms983 said:


> I'd imagine it's not that easy to find a demo of these at a shop. I haven't heard anyone's but my own and Andy's car. Let's just say I have work to do lol
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk













Closest Audiofrog dealer to you. One Saturday, make that drive and check em out! 



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## cms983

MrGreen83 said:


> Closest Audiofrog dealer to you. One Saturday, make that drive and check em out!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was going to go there but they didn't have much interest in talking to me about the product when I purchased them and wanted full msrp so I ended up going to audio shoppe in riverside CA. Glad I did. They don't have demos there though

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## DirtyPickle

Interesting info. I was told by a guy in Illinois that the Hybrid Audio stuff was the best around. BTW: Never heard Mille's or AudioFrogs.


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## nstaln

I love my AF's...I'm currently running the GB10's, GB25's, GB2510c crossovers and GS693's.

All have exceeded my expectations.

I will be listing a pair of like-new condition GB60's in the next few days in the classifieds at a considerable discount to Crutchfield where I bought them. 

I plan on grabbing a set of GS42's and GS62's doing a surround sound system;

AF GB10's & 25's right/left front high, GSS693 right/left low, GS42 center, GS62's rear, TC Sound TC1000 15 sub. Alpine PXA-h800 and (2)JL 900/5's.


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## strohw

Forum boner activate!


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## captainscarlett

^^ 

They're the latest fad, it would seem, taking over from HAT as the *forum ^^ darling *brand. I've no doubt that they perform well, but I wouldn't go dismissing the likes of HAT, Morel, Dynaudio or even the new Clarion Z series quite yet. 

I've only heard the hertz low to midrange which are also quite good. Not a greatest fan of Focal, but I wouldn't necessarily throw them out either. the only issue I have is that you guys in the U.S. seem to pay through the nose for European stuff.


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## Jscoyne2

And all the good stuff is European stuff. We have no good american drivers short of american made subwoofers that are badass

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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

captainscarlett said:


> ^^
> 
> They're the latest fad, it would seem, taking over from HAT as the *forum ^^ darling *brand. I've no doubt that they perform well, but I wouldn't go dismissing the likes of HAT, Morel, Dynaudio or even the new Clarion Z series quite yet.
> 
> I've only heard the hertz low to midrange which are also quite good. Not a greatest fan of Focal, but I wouldn't necessarily throw them out either. the only issue I have is that you guys in the U.S. seem to pay through the nose for European stuff.


I wouldn't go comparing them to HAT. Huge differences, like AF being honest about the speakers linear excursion.


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## captainscarlett

Jscoyne2 said:


> And all the good stuff is European stuff. We have no good american drivers short of american made subwoofers that are badass
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk



I wouldn't go that far. HAT aren't a bad brand. And when it comes to Morel and Dynaudio, you seem to be able to get them for reasonable/equivalent price to what we in the UK (my manor) pay. But when it comes to Focal, Hertz in particular (which are the more popular European SQ brands) you in the U.S. really do pay over-the-top prices. With the aforementioned brands being already established, it kinda renders Focal and Hertz an irrelevance. 

I know DLS died a death in the U.S. which is a shame because Scott was a dealer/distributor for DLS, and an advid user, which kinda shows how impressive they are .... although their product list has seemed to have all but disappeared now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sBaa61Uz3g

I know Groundzero are trying to get a foothold to which i've commented before, and for which i wish them the best of luck, because they really did die a death in the UK. 



TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I wouldn't go comparing them to HAT. Huge differences, like AF being honest about the speakers linear excursion.


Accepted. A lot of manufacturers _seem_ to embellish T/S parameters. DD springs to mind! But if people judge performance based on a single parameter, then i wish them the best of luck. My ears have the final say!


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## MrGreen83

We pay ridiculous prices for focal Audison Mosconi etc. That's why most wait until they see something for sale in the forums because you usually get a better price (which is what you probably should've paid in the first place if the prices were priced reasonably in the US). 

But I dunno about discrediting US brands. There are plenty of capable drivers made here. The JL Audio components sound awesome to me. I think the "buzz" has just died down about certain products because we've gotten used to them.

The "hot new thing" is always going to overshadow stuff that's been around forever. With that said........the Audiofrog drivers sound amazing new or not. 


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## Jscoyne2

That video though. Holy crap. I show my off gear but I could never be so.. professional about it. Ruins all the damn fun

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## captainscarlett

MrGreen83 said:


> The "hot new thing" is always going to overshadow stuff that's been around forever. With that said........the Audiofrog drivers sound amazing new or not.


I get that. Like someone once said; the flies never settle on audio enthusiasts!!! But 'n try i say. 



Jscoyne2 said:


> That video though. Holy crap. I show my off gear but I could never be so.. professional about it. Ruins all the damn fun


with some aspects i do get a little blasé about things. But again, considering the endorsement and the fact that DLS were available at a reasonable price, and given their track record in SQ comps, i never understood why DLS never took off in the U.S.


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## Jscoyne2

captainscarlett said:


> I get that. Like someone once said; the flies never settle on audio enthusiasts!!! But 'n try i say.
> 
> 
> 
> with some aspects i do get a little blasé about things. But again, considering the endorsement and the fact that DLS were available at a reasonable price, and given their track record in SQ comps, i never understood why DLS never took off in the U.S.


Is that you in the vid?

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## OldNewb

MrGreen83 said:


> We pay ridiculous prices for focal Audison Mosconi etc. That's why most wait until they see something for sale in the forums because you usually get a better price (which is what you probably should've paid in the first place if the prices were priced reasonably in the US).
> 
> But I dunno about discrediting US brands. There are plenty of capable drivers made here. The JL Audio components sound awesome to me. I think the "buzz" has just died down about certain products because we've gotten used to them.
> 
> The "hot new thing" is always going to overshadow stuff that's been around forever. With that said........the Audiofrog drivers sound amazing new or not.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top end JL drivers are German.


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## MrGreen83

Oh ok I always hear Florida when JL is mentioned 


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

captainscarlett said:


> I wouldn't go that far. HAT aren't a bad brand. And when it comes to Morel and Dynaudio, you seem to be able to get them for reasonable/equivalent price to what we in the UK (my manor) pay. But when it comes to Focal, Hertz in particular (which are the more popular European SQ brands) you in the U.S. really do pay over-the-top prices. With the aforementioned brands being already established, it kinda renders Focal and Hertz an irrelevance.
> 
> I know DLS died a death in the U.S. which is a shame because Scott was a dealer/distributor for DLS, and an advid user, which kinda shows how impressive they are .... although their product list has seemed to have all but disappeared now.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sBaa61Uz3g
> 
> I know Groundzero are trying to get a foothold to which i've commented before, and for which i wish them the best of luck, because they really did die a death in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Accepted. A lot of manufacturers _seem_ to embellish T/S parameters. DD springs to mind! But if people judge performance based on a single parameter, then i wish them the best of luck. My ears have the final say!


Agreed on HAT not being the only one, and xmax alone not being the final say. I still have my L6SE's, but I would never use them as a dedicated midbass because they just can't handle that at realistic levels. But in a 2 way, with a highish high pass, they are great. I would take the GB60 all day long over the L6SE if I need to cross below 100hz.


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## captainscarlett

JL Audio C5


> Made in Germany


 C5-650 - Car Audio - Evolution® - C5 - Component Systems - JL Audio

ZR


> The component systems feature precision-built woofers and tweeters manufactured in Germany


ZR - JL Audio




msmith said:


> To answer a few questions that have been brought up... The W7 is an exceptional sound quality woofer. That was its primary design mission and is its biggest strength. If you're looking for a highly linear, high-excursion driver that is U.S. made it should be on your short list.
> 
> The W3v3, W6v2, W7 and TW5 subwoofers are all made in our factory in Miramar, Florida.
> 
> You can see a gallery of our factory here:
> JL Audio
> 
> The parts come from the U.S. and overseas. There isn't a single U.S. made speaker that uses all U.S. parts anymore. For example, there are no magnet producers in the U.S.A. at this time. They all closed up in the 90's.
> 
> Manville Smith
> JL Audio


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## ErinH

The AF stuff has really impressed me... and I'm not easily impressed. I put AF GB series drivers in a class with Scan-Speak Revelator/Illuminator drivers. Yes, the GB series stuff is expensive but value is up to the purchaser. I will say at the least they perform as well as their specs indicate. That's more than I can say for about 75% of the stuff I test. 

I personally use the GB25. Incredible, little midrange.


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## OldNewb

I wish I would have known more about them before I forked over for the Dynaudios. But as of right now I'm satisfied.


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## MrGreen83

Same here on the Mille Legends! But I'm just gonna do them (the AF's) in my other car. Easy fix lol


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## captainscarlett

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Agreed on HAT not being the only one, and xmax alone not being the final say. I still have my L6SE's, but I would never use them as a dedicated midbass because they just can't handle that at realistic levels. But in a 2 way, with a highish high pass, they are great. I would take the GB60 all day long over the L6SE if I need to cross below 100hz.



TBH, I've been looking at the AF coaxial speakers rather than the components because that's my preference and i'm massively lazy when it comes to installation  But on paper, there's nothing that AF grabs me other than 'they're a new toy'! Hands up, on looks, they seem to be well engineered, and Andy seems to be a person of impeccable integrity, however it's always down the preference/prejudice of the individual. Some people will rave about what is simple a '*Shiney New Toy*' and don't we have a tendency to want the new to to be better, even if it's not?

just throwing the rhetorical out there.


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## MrGreen83

I would urge anyone with interest towards the AF product....to go to a dealer...and get a demo. Make your mind up about them from your own experience.....rather than hearsay.....don't worry about what's on paper, don't worry about what they look like, go HEAR them and form your conclusion from something more substantial than what u >>think<< from reading words, or viewing pictures


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## OldNewb

I always found it hard to judge off a demo. Every application will be different


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## KillerBox

I have never met Andy and I am completely out of any car stereo group except for here (no friends or family care about it) but, he has done a few things that impressed me.

1.) Helping people with their JBL MS-8 even after he quit working for JBL.

2.) He said his ideal specs for his subwoofers were what it says in the manual. I know a lot of subwoofer manufactures undersize of their boxes to increase the power handling or because customers want the smallest boxes possible.

3.) He gives tips on speaker placements and effects (even if it goes against the conventional way of thinking on these boards). Example if you use a center channel processor and center channel speaker, put your front speakers in the top of the doors (not in the A pillars). This helps with reflections off the glass and to widen your sound stage.

4.) Then his customer service after the sale is light years ahead of any other manufactures.


For these reasons, I guarantee you that on my next car stereo that I will at least give AudioFrog a try!


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## nstaln

I reached out to Andy a while ago when I was considering purchasing the AF693 6x9's...I sent him a few questions regarding the dimensions of the grill and metal insert.

Instead of sending me an email with a handful of numbers he requested my mailing address and actually sent me the complete grill set(single) for the 6x9s for free.

That's pretty darn cool. 

I now own a set of AF693's and I really like them.


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## cms983

ErinH said:


> I personally use the GB25. Incredible, little midrange.


+1 love it.

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## Babs

KillerBox said:


> I have never met Andy and I am completely out of any car stereo group except for here (no friends or family care about it) but, he has done a few things that impressed me.
> 
> 1.) Helping people with their JBL MS-8 even after he quit working for JBL.
> 
> 2.) He said his ideal specs for his subwoofers were what it says in the manual. I know a lot of subwoofer manufactures undersize of their boxes to increase the power handling or because customers want the smallest boxes possible.
> 
> 3.) He gives tips on speaker placements and effects (even if it goes against the conventional way of thinking on these boards). Example if you use a center channel processor and center channel speaker, put your front speakers in the top of the doors (not in the A pillars). This helps with reflections off the glass and to widen your sound stage.
> 
> 4.) Then his customer service after the sale is light years ahead of any other manufactures.
> 
> 
> For these reasons, I guarantee you that on my next car stereo that I will at least give AudioFrog a try!


I can tell you from first hand knowledge.. Andy's help and assistance when you need it makes me say it'd be Frog going forward. Also HAT, because I know a certain couple other fellows there that'd also give you the assistance if I needed it. I can't say that of Focal, Dyn, Morel, Hertz/Audison etc., from any personal experience anyway. I'll say another thing about Andy in particular.. He seems to also be doing a lot of seminars and training that are not just for frog promotion as well.. He is promoting the industry not just advertising. That goes a long way with me.


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## cms983

Babs said:


> I can tell you from first hand knowledge.. Andy's help and assistance when you need it makes me say it'd be Frog going forward. Also HAT, because I know a certain couple other fellows there that'd also give you the assistance if I needed it. I can't say that of Focal, Dyn, Morel, Hertz/Audison etc., from any personal experience anyway. I'll say another thing about Andy in particular.. He seems to also be doing a lot of seminars and training that are not just for frog promotion as well.. He is promoting the industry not just advertising. That goes a long way with me.


I can't wait to attend one of his seminars. They seem to cover pretty basic stuff to start but I'm sure I'd learn a few things. I'd mainly go just to pick his brain again lol

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## MrGreen83

What I REALLY wanna hear is the Gladen AEROSPACE 165.3 set. I'm not even gonna say how much it costs, but for THAT price???? Something spectacular must happen lol


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## sqnut

MrGreen83 said:


> What I REALLY wanna hear is the Gladen AEROSPACE 165.3 set. I'm not even gonna say how much it costs, but for THAT price???? Something spectacular must happen lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


your wallet will be spectacularly lighter.


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## Arete

OldNewb said:


> I always found it hard to judge off a demo. Every application will be different


I agree with this. It has to look good on paper. Our ears can easily be fooled. I want to KNOW what I'm buying is worth the coin. I didn't demo ANYTHING that I have in my car now but I saw graphs,independent testing and read reviews. I was confident they would perform as intended and they do. Very much so.


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## MrGreen83

A place that has the product installed in a car....for me to hear....does the job for me better than some numbers. 

Andy has a segment with Ricardo Rangel (on Ricardo's YouTube channel) stressing this very issue. 

He says how customers don't wanna read specs and hear u talk ___ about a product...if u can let them hear it....do so, and let them be the judge of how good it is based off what THEIR EARS hear. He also >complained< about the lack of shops who demo the products for their customers.

Everyone has different taste when it comes to hearing. What you like, I may not like. 

Especially when we, the customer, are spending over a grand for speakers. 


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## Arete

MrGreen83 said:


> A place that has the product installed in a car....for me to hear....does the job for me better than some numbers.
> 
> Andy has a segment with Ricardo Rangel (on Ricardo's YouTube channel) stressing this very issue.
> 
> He says how customers don't wanna read specs and hear u talk ___ about a product...if u can let them hear it....do so, and let them be the judge of how good it is based off what THEIR EARS hear. He also >complained< about the lack of shops who demo the products for their customers.
> 
> Everyone has different taste when it comes to hearing. What you like, I may not like.
> 
> Especially when we, the customer, are spending over a grand for speakers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The thing is in many cases listening to the products is either really really difficult OR impossible (like with my scan tweeters) so it is something to go on. I believe it's a pretty reliable thing to go on. Hasn't failed me yet.


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## captainscarlett

MrGreen83 said:


> What I REALLY wanna hear is the Gladen AEROSPACE 165.3 set. I'm not even gonna say how much it costs, but for THAT price???? Something spectacular must happen lol


With that money, you could probably afford to go into space yourself!


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## MrGreen83

Lmfao


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## MrGreen83

Arete said:


> The thing is in many cases listening to the products is either really really difficult OR impossible (like with my scan tweeters) so it is something to go on. I believe it's a pretty reliable thing to go on. Hasn't failed me yet.




This is why I haven't invested in the (new .3) Hertz Mille Legend subwoofers yet. Everyone that attended the Las Vegas presentation keeps raving about how great they are.....but you can't hear them >>anywhere<< ....no demo...nobody is making any videos with them playing in their car...nothing. 

So I'm not gonna spend $1000 on an >>8 inch subwoofer<< without hearing how good it can sound with my own ears first.

I think this is something that needs to be addressed with some shops. They either don't carry the high end stuff in the shop (because most people aren't spending that type of money)....or they have it but you can't get a demo. It's tucked away nicely in a box in the back room lol. 

Come on man......audio enthusiasts are excited about products. We want to be tempted, we want to be serenaded, we want to HEAR the music. Don't tell me it's AMAZING and it costs $1500-$3000 for a component set....and then expect me to just "take your word for it". 

We need a compromise! 

My audio guy FINALLY (after I dunno how many years) did a demo board with high end, middle, and entry level speakers and while I DO UNDERSTAND.....that this won't do the customer much justice because it's not in a real listening environment.....it just may entice a customer to spend that extra on the high end gear because he/she likes the way it sounded. 


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## OldNewb

True Green but hearing it in someone else install that's not the same as yours will yield different results. With the right skills a good install can polish a turd. With the wrong skills a bad install can turn a gem to a rock.


----------



## cms983

OldNewb said:


> True Green but hearing it in someone else install that's not the same as yours will yield different results. With the right skills a good install can polish a turd. With the wrong skills a bad install can turn a gem to a rock.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I still like to hear stuff first but that requires quite a drive for me with no good shops in my area. Rave reviews from experienced, reputable, and knowledgeable members on here are enough for me. They haven't let me down yet with my gb15 and gb25. Gb60 are going in on Saturday. I expect an eargasm to say the least. 

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## MrGreen83

cms983 said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. I still like to hear stuff first but that requires quite a drive for me with no good shops in my area. Rave reviews from experienced, reputable, and knowledgeable members on here are enough for me. They haven't let me down yet with my gb15 and gb25. Gb60 are going in on Saturday. I expect an eargasm to say the least.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk




Which DSP are u using 


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## cms983

MrGreen83 said:


> Which DSP are u using
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


RF 360.3 for now

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## lucas569

i installed a couple sets in my friends cars and was pretty blown away. i really like all the accessories they include. Lots of options. I cant afford the GB60's so i went with the lower end line, still undecided if i should go with GB10 or GS10's. Hopefully crutchfield runs another sale soon.


----------



## Arete

MrGreen83 said:


> This is why I haven't invested in the (new .3) Hertz Mille Legend subwoofers yet. Everyone that attended the Las Vegas presentation keeps raving about how great they are.....but you can't hear them >>anywhere<< ....no demo...nobody is making any videos with them playing in their car...nothing.
> 
> So I'm not gonna spend $1000 on an >>8 inch subwoofer<< without hearing how good it can sound with my own ears first.
> 
> I think this is something that needs to be addressed with some shops. They either don't carry the high end stuff in the shop (because most people aren't spending that type of money)....or they have it but you can't get a demo. It's tucked away nicely in a box in the back room lol.
> 
> Come on man......audio enthusiasts are excited about products. We want to be tempted, we want to be serenaded, we want to HEAR the music. Don't tell me it's AMAZING and it costs $1500-$3000 for a component set....and then expect me to just "take your word for it".
> 
> We need a compromise!
> 
> My audio guy FINALLY (after I dunno how many years) did a demo board with high end, middle, and entry level speakers and while I DO UNDERSTAND.....that this won't do the customer much justice because it's not in a real listening environment.....it just may entice a customer to spend that extra on the high end gear because he/she likes the way it sounded.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can see your point. If I could demo the speakers I was buying I definitely would. Its just "for me" thorough specifications, independent testing (klippel), and good reviews are good enough... If all those things are accurate there isn't any reason with proper install and EQ that the driver won't sound good. Accurate specs can be hard to come by, so can klippel specs... Many manufacturers don't tell you a whole lot about there speakers and what they do tell you can be hyped up. This is why I'm grateful for people like Erin that has done testing of some popular drivers. Again I do get your point... if you are paying a premium for speakers you SHOULD be able to listen to them. Unfortunately most companies can't be everywhere...


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> i installed a couple sets in my friends cars and was pretty blown away. i really like all the accessories they include. Lots of options. I cant afford the GB60's so i went with the lower end line, still undecided if i should go with GB10 or GS10's. Hopefully crutchfield runs another sale soon.



Yeah I'm hanging on to my GS42's thinking of a possibility where I could use them. Tad large for the Civic so I went with the GB10/25 combo. Heard the GS42's just on dash free-air though. Nice. I wouldn't knock the GS line at all. Very capable drivers for a more budget-friendly build. Might try to cram the little coaxials in my Tacoma some how. 


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## cms983

I'd like to use a gs42 for a center. Just wish Honda would get with the times and add a factory center speaker in their models

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## willtel

lucas569 said:


> Hopefully crutchfield runs another sale soon.


Are Crutchfield prices the same as other dealers? I know they are much higher on some things but I wasn't sure about these.


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## SkizeR

willtel said:


> Are Crutchfield prices the same as other dealers? I know they are much higher on some things but I wasn't sure about these.


crutchfield has to abide by the MAP/MSRP pricing just like brick and mortar dealers


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## cms983

The shop I buy from is the same price as crutchfield. Cheaper than msrp on AF website

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## lucas569

willtel said:


> Are Crutchfield prices the same as other dealers? I know they are much higher on some things but I wasn't sure about these.


they ran a sale for a few weeks 20% off but it ended Oct 1st


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## .69077

I've been really considering the GB series as well, the GB10s will fit perfectly in my sail panels and the GB25s will be perfect for the dash location. I'll probably wait for the $700 bite on the GB60s, just maybe run my Gladens as I'm not a fan of the pro minds and tweets


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## Niebur3

PM me for pricing on AudioFrog. I am an authorized dealer.


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## lucas569

pm sent


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## Babs

I missed it guys. Which cars at finals had frogs? I had em but chickened out of IASCA 3X so the civic was outside. Plus with pillars in primer unfinished and not even with grills on the mids since I have to finish the pillars before I can do the mid rings. Add also my tune which was full of issues, she just wasn't ready for that kind of hit to the ego. 


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## cms983

Babs said:


> I missed it guys. Which cars at finals had frogs? I had em but chickened out of IASCA 3X so the civic was outside. Plus with pillars in primer unfinished and not even with grills on the mids since I have to finish the pillars before I can do the mid rings. Add also my tune which was full of issues, she just wasn't ready for that kind of hit to the ego.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here. Some people were telling me to enter but I knew it wasn't winning material or even competitive with my Midbass choppy and sub out of phase and drawing the bass back to the trunk. Didn't have the gb60s then either. Jesus these gb60s are beasts compared to my Morel mw6. Lol. Next time, I'll be ready though! 

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## slain93gsr

a friend of mine has the gb 60 and gb 15 installed in a ls 430.. Having being around his car for a number of years and different set ups.. His current AF set up was a large jump from his last rainbow profi set up..

I thought the mid range was much more detailed then the profis while not having as much bottom end oomph as the profis.. again subjective...


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## captainscarlett

slain93gsr said:


> a friend of mine has the gb 60 and gb 15 installed in a ls 430.. Having being around his car for a number of years and different set ups.. His current AF set up was a large jump from his last rainbow profi set up..
> 
> I thought the mid range was much more detailed then the profis while not having as much bottom end oomph as the profis.. again subjective...


Rainbow has just updated the Profi, so it could be another leap from the old version.


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## Babs

So I'm mad.. I know of one car at finals who was running frogs and I didn't find it so I could ask to hear it. Might have to fix that next year.


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## SkizeR

Babs said:


> So I'm mad.. I know of one car at finals who was running frogs and I didn't find it so I could ask to hear it. Might have to fix that next year.


ed rice, surina rice, justin campbell, me..


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## DirtyPickle

Rainbow ? Never heard of them. Had to do some research, hmmm


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## Babs

SkizeR said:


> ed rice, surina rice, justin campbell, me..


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## slain93gsr

captainscarlett said:


> Rainbow has just updated the Profi, so it could be another leap from the old version.


Definitely could be another leap..I've had rainbow slc kicks and the geraniums.. this was almost 10 years ago tho.. loved their cal 27 tweeter..


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## captainobvious

Well, for those that prefer to see some measured data on them, have a look at the tests done here:

GB15: http://medleysmusings.com/audiofrog-gb15-1-5-dome-tweeter/
GB25: http://medleysmusings.com/afgb25/
GB40: http://medleysmusings.com/audiofrog-gb40-4-midrange/


Credit and thanks to ErinH for these tests and the time taken to provide this data.


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## .69077

Got my GB15s today. Things look very well made


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## Angrywhopper

I'm surprised by the lack of interest in Focal here.. is it because they're not the new shiny toy brand on the block?


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## SkizeR

Angrywhopper said:


> I'm surprised by the lack of interest in Focal here.. is it because they're not the new shiny toy brand on the block?


no, theres just better for the money and most folks here know that


----------



## Angrywhopper

SkizeR said:


> no, theres just better for the money and most folks here know that


Goes to show you how everyone hears and likes different speakers. It's great


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## captainscarlett

Angrywhopper said:


> I'm surprised by the lack of interest in Focal here.. is it because they're not the new shiny toy brand on the block?


I simply never got on with Focal, although I wouldn't mind having a go on their new subs, but that's about all that interests me. I think their upper end stuff is average at best, and the lower end stuff is shrieking awful. Hands up my experience of both high-end (although limited) and low end (for which I had the misfortune of owning some of) I never got to try/hear the midrange stuff. However, bar the marketing I simply don't think they're anything to write home about. Like I said, the only thing that's tickled me is the new subs, but not because of the material used, just out of sheer interest because the old low-end subs I found to be a bit lackluster. 






But there seems to be a bit of hype around flax, which given the marketing seems to be heavier than a well made paper cone ... or at least that's what some of my brief research has revealed. 

Focal F25P - MMS *145* - http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FT_Expert_P25F.pdf
Peerless XLS10 - MMS *102.1* http://www.tymphany.com/wp-content/themes/pathfinders/cache/pdfs/XXLS-P835016.pdf (althuogh my pdf sheet says 92.2

So flax is better at what exactly? And don't say stiffness, because done correctly as Peter Thomas pointed out *"Paper is still the stiffest lightest material on the planet, whatever anyone says ... "*


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## gumbeelee

SkizeR said:


> no, theres just better for the money and most folks here know that




Thats exactly right when it comes to Focal. As for Audiofrog, I absolutely love them to say the least!! They will stay in my beater and my weekend ride until I find something that I like better or I just to decide to change it up. With the way these babies sound, its going to be a tough chore for to me to ever remove these sweet pieces. The AF GB60 are the best mids I personally have ever ran!! I can't wait till Audiofrog's processor is released!!


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## Elektra

gumbeelee said:


> Thats exactly right when it comes to Focal. As for Audiofrog, I absolutely love them to say the least!! They will stay in my beater and my weekend ride until I find something that I like better or I just to decide to change it up. With the way these babies sound, its going to be a tough chore for to me to ever remove these sweet pieces. The AF GB60 are the best mids I personally have ever ran!! I can't wait till Audiofrog's processor is released!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




I don't really believe that - I can get Utopias for less money than the AF - I am in a situation that I am struggling to find an alternative to Focal considering that Scanspeak (Revelator) is more money and so is AF - Utopias I have used before and I find them to be fantastic - in fact I haven't heard anything better... AF is new here and not many demo cars available to listen to.. but it will cost me more or just about the same to have them as well...

Focal has a high MSRP - but who pays those prices anyway? 


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## sqnut

Angrywhopper said:


> Goes to show you how everyone hears and likes different speakers. It's great


Hear the music, not the speaker.


----------



## Elektra

captainscarlett said:


> I simply never got on with Focal, although I wouldn't mind having a go on their new subs, but that's about all that interests me. I think their upper end stuff is average at best, and the lower end stuff is shrieking awful. Hands up my experience of both high-end (although limited) and low end (for which I had the misfortune of owning some of) I never got to try/hear the midrange stuff. However, bar the marketing I simply don't think they're anything to write home about. Like I said, the only thing that's tickled me is the new subs, but not because of the material used, just out of sheer interest because the old low-end subs I found to be a bit lackluster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there seems to be a bit of hype around flax, which given the marketing seems to be heavier than a well made paper cone ... or at least that's what some of my brief research has revealed.
> 
> Focal F25P - MMS *145* - http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FT_Expert_P25F.pdf
> Peerless XLS10 - MMS *102.1* http://www.tymphany.com/wp-content/themes/pathfinders/cache/pdfs/XXLS-P835016.pdf (althuogh my pdf sheet says 92.2
> 
> So flax is better at what exactly? And don't say stiffness, because done correctly as Peter Thomas pointed out *"Paper is still the stiffest lightest material on the planet, whatever anyone says ... "*




I dunno hey.. I have been aware of the infamous brightness that is associated with Focal.. there seem to be more threads about that than anything else on the net.

So when a buddy of mine sold me his kit 6 active for like $650 BNIB I was a little hesitant as my hearing is very sensitive to harsh metallic sounds.. but for the price I decided to get them. I was a bit concerned that the tweeter FS was so high so I converted the kit 6 into a kit 7 with crossblock.

I have to say I ran them in at home off a self made cabinet off Morel Elate 3 way passives (didn't have the crossblock at that time) and I recorded the hours I spent running them in as the car they were going in was a weekend car so it would take a year to run them in properly. 

I did +200 hours before they went in the car... they sounded so good I didn't want them to leave my house.... sounded like a high end home system. 

The Elates I had as well also run in at home - were nowhere near the fidelity of the Focal's - they sounded like car speakers to me..

I find utopias need to be wired correctly as incorrect wiring makes them sound like a cheap set of speakers - correct wiring makes them sound like a home hifi... 

I also heard the Flax and Polyglass and both were decent to me especially the Polyglass I was surprised at how good they sounded for the money.. 

Even the KRX sounded decent...

But I would say that having a decent source and amp helps a lot at the end of the day and knowledge about the speakers as well in terms of wiring them. 

I have heard my own Utopias make heavy metal sound like classical orchestral music with zero harshness whatsoever - and I hate heavy metal!

The Utopias where the only speakers I could listen to that noise without me blocking my ears! Even my brother was impressed with that..

I have heard my own Utopias sound so bad I actually preferred to listen to road noise instead - till I found out I had a wiring problem and went back to singing angels....

Utopias where the only speakers I have heard that plays every genre of music equally well.. which more than what I can say for some of my other speakers I owned in the past - namely the Alpine F1 2 and 3 ways....

Must say Scanspeak 10F is a very nice mid which I heard in my brothers car....




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## captainscarlett

It's down to personal choice and ones own listening parameters. I'm not into SPL, but I do push my speakers, and that's where, for me, Focal fall down. I've always said "At more reasonable levels" they're OK but nothing memorable. But like I said, get happy with the loud peddle, and that's when things fall apart for Focal. 

But as for memorable performance I still say below $100/£100 the DLS Performance speakers are heads and shoulders above anything, anything else. $(£)100-200 I'll still stick with Morel. $(£)200-300 there's still nothing from Focal that would '_Float me boat'_. 

As for the mid-range Focal, K2 etc, I don;t have any comment. But for the upper mid and high-end, I'm sorry but there's nothing for me that made a lasting impression apart from, they don't a lasting impression. Coming from home audio to car audio, Focal was one brand that came to mind. But why I bothered I don't know, because TBH I've never been a fan of their home audio stuff either. 

As far as the Utopias go, again I was never impressed by the home audio stuff, but for me it's another exercise in high-cost audio being passed over as high-end audio. Sometimes I fantasized about the Utopia Be 165 W-RC http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/spe...s/focal-utopia-be-165-w-rc-passive-with-xover, but in reality I know right at the last moment I'd probably swerve and buy some Dyn's or Morel's instead.


----------



## Elektra

captainscarlett said:


> It's down to personal choice and ones own listening parameters. I'm not into SPL, but I do push my speakers, and that's where, for me, Focal fall down. I've always said "At more reasonable levels" they're OK but nothing memorable. But like I said, get happy with the loud peddle, and that's when things fall apart for Focal.
> 
> But as for memorable performance I still say below $100/£100 the DLS Performance speakers are heads and shoulders above anything, anything else. $(£)100-200 I'll still stick with Morel. $(£)200-300 there's still nothing from Focal that would '_Float me boat'_.
> 
> As for the mid-range Focal, K2 etc, I don;t have any comment. But for the upper mid and high-end, I'm sorry but there's nothing for me that made a lasting impression apart from, they don't a lasting impression. Coming from home audio to car audio, Focal was one brand that came to mind. But why I bothered I don't know, because TBH I've never been a fan of their home audio stuff either.
> 
> As far as the Utopias go, again I was never impressed by the home audio stuff, but for me it's another exercise in high-cost audio being passed over as high-end audio. Sometimes I fantasized about the Utopia Be 165 W-RC http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/spe...s/focal-utopia-be-165-w-rc-passive-with-xover, but in reality I know right at the last moment I'd probably swerve and buy some Dyn's or Morel's instead.




For me DLS sound dead... you need a defibrillator to wake them up or the person listing to them... 



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## captainscarlett

Elektra said:


> For me DLS sound dead... you need a defibrillator to wake them up or the person listing to them...





> below $100/£100 the DLS Performance speakers are heads and shoulders above anything, anything else


 You haven't stated what DLS you're referring to and what was your comparison. And fuirther, Scott scott Buwalda, U.S. SQ Deity, would somewhat disagree with you, given his use of DLS and his SQ credentials. https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=scott+buwalda+dls


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## Elektra

captainscarlett said:


> You haven't stated what DLS you're referring to and what was your comparison.




I had the series below the nobelium - had the UR1 and the 2.5" mid similar to the morel CDM88? Can't really remember it was a while back...

Very laid back speakers lacked any kind of detail and realism...

I think the K2's were much more dynamic... 


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## captainscarlett

I've updated my reply, but again there might be some who would disagree. https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=scott+buwalda+dls But I can accept that you think the Focal's are more lively. Again once all the forum comments are read, it's down to personal choice.


----------



## Elektra

captainscarlett said:


> I've updated my reply, but again there might be some who would disagree. https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=scott+buwalda+dls But I can accept that you think the Focal's are more lively. Again once all the forum comments are read, it's down to personal choice.




Yeah I think it's personal experience - I have heard a very good SQ comp car here with a set of KRX3's and to be honest it's too clinical 

But on the other hand I have heard the same speakers running passively and they are completely opposite...

The KRX range is more lively - I would say the Utopias are butter smooth in comparison... harsh and Utopia don't belong together in the same sentence... 


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## captainscarlett

Elektra said:


> Yeah I think it's personal experience - I have heard a very good SQ comp car here with a set of KRX3's and to be honest it's too clinical
> 
> But on the other hand I have heard the same speakers running passively and they are completely opposite...
> 
> The KRX range is more lively - I would say the Utopias are butter smooth in comparison... harsh and Utopia don't belong together in the same sentence...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would never call the Utopia's 'harsh', personally i was referring to the lower end gear. Beryllium aside, there's just nothing that grabbed me and certainly not given the price. As we have all heard many products personal, home, home theater, even PA systems, however there's a difference between good gear and a memorable experience. Home Audio I've had 3 memorable experiences, but all with modest priced systems, not with £100,000's worth of gear. When it comes to audio in general though, and like I said before, I don't care if the speakers are made from Kryptonite and the speaker cone is made out of Superman's spandex pants; what does it sound like? I really don't care about beryllium this and carbon fibre that. My ears have the final say, not a bunch of graphs and marketing hype.


----------



## jriggs

Elektra said:


> *I ran them off Morel Elate 3 way passives* (didn't have the crossblock at that time)...
> 
> I find utopias need to be wired correctly as incorrect wiring makes them sound like a cheap set of speakers - *correct wiring makes them sound like a home hifi*...
> 
> But I would say that having a decent source and amp helps a lot at the end of the day and knowledge about the speakers as well in terms of wiring them.


----------



## Elektra

captainscarlett said:


> I would never call the Utopia's 'harsh', personally i was referring to the lower end gear. Beryllium aside, there's just nothing that grabbed me and certainly not given the price. As we have all heard many products personal, home, home theater, even PA systems, however there's a difference between good gear and a memorable experience. Home Audio I've had 3 memorable experiences, but all with modest priced systems, not with £100,000's worth of gear. When it comes to audio in general though, and like I said before, I don't care if the speakers are made from Kryptonite and the speaker cone is made out of Superman's spandex pants; what does it sound like? I really don't care about beryllium this and carbon fibre that. My ears have the final say, not a bunch of graphs and marketing hype.




Yeah I would agree - heard so much hype over some brands and when you get to hear them they nothing special.

Focal is a I love to hate you type of brand - some love them some hate them....


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## Elektra

jriggs said:


>




What I meant to say here...

I had the Kit 7 active and a set of Elates so I used the Elate passives which worked fine.. 

Focal speakers require the tweeters to be wired out of phase.. I had my tweeters out of phase and mids in Phase and I think my midbass was out of phase as well..

Makes a HUGE difference on the Kits not so much on other speakers... 


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## captainobvious

Have a look at the distortion performance of the GB25 mid and it will tell you a lot. This is a very well designed and executed driver. Erin's testing emulates the 90db, 96db and higher output 102db levels. Compare the results of the GB25 to those of the world class Scanspeak 12m which he also tested here: 
http://medleysmusings.com/ssrev12/

What you will find in comparing these 2 mids is the following:

The scanspeak has a little flatter response on axis and a little more sensitivity, however the GB25 starts beaming an octave later (due to it's smaller cone diameter). Both drivers exhibit very nice polar response.
In examining the disotrion performance at the high 102db level, the Scan performs a little better below 300hz, but even at 200hz, the THD of the GB25 is still about 35db below the fundamental and distortion throughout its intended passband is extremely low. 
In short, the performance of the GB25 appears to be world class as well...and remember we're comparing a 2.5" mid to a 4.5" mid! 



So while many times people are quick to jump on the latest hyped product, the data here really does back it up. They are well engineered.






captainobvious said:


> GB25: http://medleysmusings.com/afgb25/
> 
> Credit and thanks to ErinH for these tests and the time taken to provide this data.


----------



## Elektra

captainobvious said:


> Have a look at the distortion performance of the GB25 mid and it will tell you a lot. This is a very well designed and executed driver. Erin's testing emulates the 90db, 96db and higher output 102db levels. Compare the results of the GB25 to those of the world class Scanspeak 12m which he also tested here:
> http://medleysmusings.com/ssrev12/
> 
> What you will find in comparing these 2 mids is the following:
> 
> The scanspeak has a little flatter response on axis and a little more sensitivity, however the GB25 starts beaming an octave later (due to it's smaller cone diameter). Both drivers exhibit very nice polar response.
> In examining the disotrion performance at the high 102db level, the Scan performs a little better below 300hz, but even at 200hz, the THD of the GB25 is still about 35db below the fundamental and distortion throughout its intended passband is extremely low.
> In short, the performance of the GB25 appears to be world class as well...and remember we're comparing a 2.5" mid to a 4.5" mid!
> 
> 
> 
> So while many times people are quick to jump on the latest hyped product, the data here really does back it up. They are well engineered.




That mid may work in my F10 Bmw - which has surprisingly very little space on the drivers side


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## Jscoyne2

cms983 said:


> +1 love it.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


Whats the extension on that driver? Realistically from low to high at high volume

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## Jscoyne2

Nvm saw the medley link

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## gumbeelee

captainobvious said:


> Have a look at the distortion performance of the GB25 mid and it will tell you a lot. This is a very well designed and executed driver. Erin's testing emulates the 90db, 96db and higher output 102db levels. Compare the results of the GB25 to those of the world class Scanspeak 12m which he also tested here:
> http://medleysmusings.com/ssrev12/
> 
> What you will find in comparing these 2 mids is the following:
> 
> The scanspeak has a little flatter response on axis and a little more sensitivity, however the GB25 starts beaming an octave later (due to it's smaller cone diameter). Both drivers exhibit very nice polar response.
> In examining the disotrion performance at the high 102db level, the Scan performs a little better below 300hz, but even at 200hz, the THD of the GB25 is still about 35db below the fundamental and distortion throughout its intended passband is extremely low.
> In short, the performance of the GB25 appears to be world class as well...and remember we're comparing a 2.5" mid to a 4.5" mid!
> 
> 
> 
> So while many times people are quick to jump on the latest hyped product, the data here really does back it up. They are well engineered.




Very well stated!


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## captainscarlett

captainobvious said:


> the data here really does back it up.


The issue is, I don't listen to data, I listen to music with my ears! I think data might ..... might be an indicator and at best, a reasonable indicator, however it's not the be all and end all.


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## Jscoyne2

What about power handling and output of a 4 vs a 2.5

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## captainobvious

As we don't listen in anechoic chambers, measurement data provides a good look into what the strengths and weaknesses are of a driver. You can tell a lot about the quality and capabilities of a speaker through this data... It aids not only in making decisions for purchases, but also in the setup of a system.
As it's not feasible for most people to simply buy a plethora of speakers and do extensive testing in their environment, relying on data can help to narrow down choices for a given application.
Of course in the end we are aiming for the best possible sound to our ears, but the data very much correlates to what we are hearing.


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## captainobvious

Jscoyne2 said:


> What about power handling and output of a 4 vs a 2.5
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


The 12M has more SD and higher sensitivity. It has 3mm xmax.
The GB25 has 4mm xmax.


The literature of the GB25 shows 100wRMS power handling with a 200hz, 12db slope. Put it in a small sealed enclosure and cross it over around 300hz with an LR4 and I think you'll be hard pressed to reach the 4mm xmax before your ears or amplifier power run out.

If you're really up for a driver of that size though then look at the GB40 versus the Scan 12m.

My point is really to say that the data shows the GB25 to be a fantastic driver and the quality of the GB series products is certainly in that ball park with the Dynaudio, Focal, Scanspeak, etc that the OP mentioned. 

I think what's best will boil down to the application they are to be used in and personal preference.


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## Babs

My GB25's will run you out of the car I think before they exhibit any strain 300hz LR4 to 4303hz LR4. Actually if anything, I run out of signal from the head unit. Really gotta try that HDMI hookup again.. I definitely know it's got much more output. But point being, the GB25's I believe will take it and dish it right back to ya.


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## gumbeelee

Babs said:


> My GB25's will run you out of the car I think before they exhibit any strain 300hz LR4 to 4303hz LR4. Actually if anything, I run out of signal from the head unit. Really gotta try that HDMI hookup again.. I definitely know it's got much more output. But point being, the GB25's I believe will take it and dish it right back to ya.




What deck r u running, just wondering? Just to say again I believe Audiofrog is on par or even better than speakers currently on the market. Just my .02 cents, i really loved my Sinfoni Maestoso set, but I love these AF's even more!!


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## Babs

gumbeelee said:


> What deck r u running, just wondering?


80PRS



gumbeelee said:


> Just to say again I believe Audiofrog is on par or even better than speakers currently on the market. Just my .02 cents, i really loved my Sinfoni Maestoso set, but I love these AF's even more!!


Having heard some Sinfoni builds at Finals, that says something. Sinfoni drivers are legit. I'd have to agree though the Frogs are special, but the top end Sinfoni's (sorry don't know the model names) would probably be quite a challenge for the Frogs to top. They are definitely nice drivers. They aught to be, considering the clams required to own them from what I'm told.


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## gumbeelee

Babs said:


> 80PRS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having heard some Sinfoni builds at Finals, that says something. Sinfoni drivers are legit. I'd have to agree though the Frogs are special, but the top end Sinfoni's (sorry don't know the model names) would probably be quite a challenge for the Frogs to top. They are definitely nice drivers. They aught to be, considering the clams required to own them from what I'm told.




They are definately not cheap!!


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## lizardking

What is everyone running the GB60's at in 3 way? LP/HP settings.


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## SkizeR

lizardking said:


> What is everyone running the GB60's at in 3 way? LP/HP settings.


they can handle 60-2500hz no problem. its going to vary depending on setup. find whats best for yours


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## .69077

lizardking said:


> What is everyone running the GB60's at in 3 way? LP/HP settings.


Andy told me to start them at 70hz to 300hz for the GB60s in a 3 way


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## cms983

lizardking said:


> What is everyone running the GB60's at in 3 way? LP/HP settings.


80-350hz 24db slopes

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## Shapin

I really want the audiofrog 3way (GB60\25\10), but i dont want to pay 800$ for the GB60.
any good alternative for 400$ that will play well with the GB25\10?


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## Babs

Shapin said:


> I really want the audiofrog 3way (GB60\25\10), but i dont want to pay 800$ for the GB60.
> any good alternative for 400$ that will play well with the GB25\10?



80PRS, PDX, TM65, SB17/NVX, Frogs, Civic Sub enclosure

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=309890&share_fid=10112&share_type=t

I'm enjoying the heck out of the TM65's mated to GB25/10 at about 350hz. Still have a new pair I'm not using currently on shelf. 


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## MrGreen83

Or get the GS60's











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## .69077

I have the GS60s with the GB10s and GB25s. I think they sound great!


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## MrGreen83

Can anyone tell me why they prefer the GB10's over the GB15's? 


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## nstaln

MrGreen83 said:


> Can anyone tell me why they prefer the GB10's over the GB15's?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends on the application...If running with a GB25 (or similar mid) the ability of the GB15 to be crossed-over lower becomes moot. So why pay for (and accommodate) a larger format tweeter than what is needed?

In a 2-way situation the ability for the GB15 to play lower would be needed.


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## .69077

nstaln said:


> Depends on the application...If running with a GB25 (or similar mid) the ability of the GB15 to be crossed-over lower becomes moot. So why pay for (and accommodate) a larger format tweeter than what is needed?
> 
> In a 2-way situation the ability for the GB15 to play lower would be needed.


Exactly, the GB15 is be used in a typical 2 way set up. If you are or in the near future going to do a 3 way then the GB25 will play the lower end of the GB15s range so you dont need the larger tweeter.


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## Shapin

I think i will get the ZR800 with the GB25\10, i believe they will mate well.


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## Smdaniel-11

MrGreen83 said:


> Listen....I got in a demo car at Extreme Audio here in VA....to check these out a while back. I was absolutely baffled....I was like wtf? Let me out. Lol. It literally put my setup to shame. They had done a lot of tuning of course, with an Alpine DSP. But MAN....for the price point...u can't beat it.
> 
> I even sat in their demo car that had the GS series speakers....with NO dsp....and was still blown away. If I hadn't already invested in these Mille Legends......I wouldn't hesitate for a second to grab the Frogs.
> 
> (I'm secretly waiting on my Mille's to blow or fail in some sort of way....to give me an excuse to switch lol)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I REALLY HOPE ANDY HAS A LOT OF VACATION TIME! Great customer service is amazing. I’m sure his retailers and several people on the page that help deal with AF would take some weight off his back.


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