# Horns on van dash Jbl 2470 on Id's



## mannparry (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi all, Iv been a member on here for some time, never posted though, Iv had a build thread on talk audio for a couple of years, thought Id share it with you guys and hopefully get a bit of help

Im hoping someone can advise on how to build some horns thatll play down to 300 and all the way upto 25k.

I understand its more about horn size when it comes to low frequencies, Iv got no idea where to start with design and modelling though.

Anyway heres a link to the build if interested.

LINK


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks for sharing the build!


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

One horn to play from 300 to 25khz is unrelistic. About the lowest you will get a horn to play that you can somehow properly mount it in your vehicle is 500 maybe a little lower if the compression driver is capable. Any large format compression driver that is capable of 400 to 500 hz is not going to do well above 8 - 10kHz and will need a super tweeter. 

On the horns you have in your pics they are capable of 500 but are better at 600 hz.

Eric


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## mannparry (Jul 24, 2010)

Eric Stevens said:


> One horn to play from 300 to 25khz is unrelistic. About the lowest you will get a horn to play that you can somehow properly mount it in your vehicle is 500 maybe a little lower if the compression driver is capable. Any large format compression driver that is capable of 400 to 500 hz is not going to do well above 8 - 10kHz and will need a super tweeter.
> 
> On the horns you have in your pics they are capable of 500 but are better at 600 hz.
> 
> Eric


Hi Eric thanks for the reply, 400hz would be an improvement, Im happy to keep the tweeters as the top ends not the issue, what would I need to do to get the horns playing lower frequencies though? Do I need to start again with a bigger horn body? 

The prolem Iv got is where the midbass are so low in the doors, Im losing out on 400hz even with them angled up more on axis and they are easily locatable on some tracks.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I am not able to read your entire build log at this time. Are you able to mount the horn motors deeper into the firewall or engine compartment area? I would think that imaging would be better to get the horns farther away from the listening position and to get the horn mouths flush with the bottom of the windshield. If you made seat brackets to adjust the seating position farther towards the rear of the vehicle that would help as well.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

if you can contact mark eldridge,and ask him for pics and or advice,he is one of the few people if i recall he had a majority of his horns and the drivers outside the cab of the truck,and he made his own horns(many times).if i am not mistaken he also had very small high quality tweeters up at the top of the a-pillars hidden behind cloth that played like 10-16 k -up.good luck. thanks for sharing.


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## mannparry (Jul 24, 2010)

edouble101 said:


> I am not able to read your entire build log at this time. Are you able to mount the horn motors deeper into the firewall or engine compartment area? I would think that imaging would be better to get the horns farther away from the listening position and to get the horn mouths flush with the bottom of the windshield. If you made seat brackets to adjust the seating position farther towards the rear of the vehicle that would help as well.


This was the original plan, Iv had the van in for bodywork the last few weeks so I cant look atm but from memory it was a real pain the ass to get them further back but doable. 

The vans done around 150000 miles now so Iv took it off the road for work and making it a project for all out SQ. Im willing to do what it takes so Ill see once I have it back.

Ill continue the build on here from where Iv left off as an when it happens.


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## mannparry (Jul 24, 2010)

jpeezy said:


> if you can contact mark eldridge,and ask him for pics and or advice,he is one of the few people if i recall he had a majority of his horns and the drivers outside the cab of the truck,and he made his own horns(many times).if i am not mistaken he also had very small high quality tweeters up at the top of the a-pillars hidden behind cloth that played like 10-16 k -up.good luck. thanks for sharing.


Thanks buddy, Iv heard that name mentioned a few times, is he on here?


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

i want to say that Mobilesoundscience.com is his site. you can probably just google him.last time i spoke to him he was a really nice guy,let me listen to the toyota.really good sounding vehicle.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

hey dont know if this is a current e-mail for Mr. Eldridge,but you can try it [email protected]


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

Perfectinterface.com - FOR SALE ,try this as well.


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## jsketoe (Aug 8, 2008)

Mark is awesome to talk to ... totally, shoot him an email.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

mannparry said:


> Hi all, Iv been a member on here for some time, never posted though, Iv had a build thread on talk audio for a couple of years, thought Id share it with you guys and hopefully get a bit of help
> 
> Im hoping someone can advise on how to build some horns thatll play down to 300 and all the way upto 25k.
> 
> ...











I got a set of those 2470s!

One of my favorite drivers.
Have considered selling them a few times, but they sound so clean, it's been hard to give 'em up.
I put some radian aluminum diaphragms in them.


Unfortunately their bandwidth isn't any wider than a B&C DE250.
I think they sound sweet and forgiving, but their bandwidth is still no wider than what you'd get with a Radian 475PB. A BMS might get you a little more bandwidth.

As far as doing 300hz to 20khz, there isn't a compression driver in the world that can do that. That's six octaves. Even the drivers that do 4.5 octaves, like the TAD 2001, cost $2000. Nothing can do six octaves. It's not possible. (well I guess technically you *could* get six octaves out of a TAD, if you were willing to live with a maximum SPL of something like 90dB.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

jpeezy said:


> if you can contact mark eldridge,and ask him for pics and or advice,he is one of the few people if i recall he had a majority of his horns and the drivers outside the cab of the truck,and he made his own horns(many times).if i am not mistaken he also had very small high quality tweeters up at the top of the a-pillars hidden behind cloth that played like 10-16 k -up.good luck. thanks for sharing.


IIRC, Eldridge was using Altecs that he bought (or was inspired to buy) from Richard Clark.

You can buy 'clones' of them here: Altec Lansing GPA 288 291 288 8H Alnico New | eBay

Here's the response:










That measurement is on a monster of a horn; you won't be able to fit this in a car. It takes a really big horn to get down to 500hz. Measurements are from Brandon's Driver Vault. Here's the horn:










I am building something similar this week:


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Here's the GPA (Altec) 288. About $1000 a pair. Look like it'll do about four or four and a half octaves. Pretty close to what a TAD 2001 will do. The TAD goes higher though.









Richard Clark and some familiar looking compression drivers


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

wow that's a crazy build


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Out of sheer curiosity, I dug up what Eldridge used. An Altec 802D according to this:

Mark Eldridge IASCA Competition

What's interesting is that the driver in the pic from Car Audio and Electronics appears to be an Altec 288. 








*See how the 288 is bigger and the 802D has curved edges?* That seems to lend some credence to the rumors that the Altecs couldn't fit in the Grand National. (IE, why would Clark take a pic with 288s if that wasn't what he was using *and* they wouldn't fit in the car.)

The 288 also uses a wider throat - 1.4".


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