# JL or Sundown



## Icecube91 (Mar 10, 2016)

Im looking for advise on getting a single sub setup. I want to know which would you guys get and what would be the benefit of getting one over the other. The box will be custom built to whatever sub I get and porbably tuned around 34 hertz for both set ups.

1. JL Audio 13w7 on JL Audio HD 1200

2. Sundown X12 on Sundown 2000D


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Do you want high output under 40hz?
Do you want a lot of output across the entire bass range? 
1. Sundown 
2. JL


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## Icecube91 (Mar 10, 2016)

well I listen to regular rap music so Im not sure exactly what hertz range thats in


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

JL will be better suited in this case. Sundown X and up are that rebassed, slowed bass music crowd.


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## 20to20 (Mar 3, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> JL will be better suited in this case. Sundown X and up are that rebassed, slowed bass music crowd.




Agreed... both will shake **** with proper electrical supply and quality box.. the sundown would most likely hit a higher spl because of almost twice as much power going to it but will not sound as "good" as JL's audiophile grade woofer (which mind u was never really intended for "beating the block down", but definately can if need be)


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## drinkchamp (Sep 20, 2016)

w7 is a no brainer


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I just have a 10" Zv4 powered by a 2000D and it is pretty crazy how low it can go, and how loud it can get... It totally kicks my ass.


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## Icecube91 (Mar 10, 2016)

I wanna get the sundown x or Zv5 and put it on a sundown 2000rms but without hearing it and just going off reviews and youtube its hard. I worried that the sundown will only be a lowend monser and not play up to 60 hertz while the W7 will have a better bandwidth


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Sundown WFT

because rap


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Sundown. 2 year warranty.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

AyOne said:


> Sundown. 2 year warranty.


This ^^^. AND excellent customer service...


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I still do not understand the misconception about sundown x series. We have one in a trooper in a box built to spec and its painful. Honestly, and I careless about what anyone says unless you have experienced it, this one is almost better than 212 sa on same amp. We did the side by side comparison. Now, on country, 70s rock it is tight and hits hard but not bloated. Metallica one, all three bass notes are clear and separate. The x12 is awesome but power hungry. After doing a lot of testing and playing around it might be better to tune it a bit higher if your into rock, metal etc, but for most everything else these subs are awesome. I am sure the jl is a great sub as well but I guess it depends on your space as well. All the tests were done in an Isuzu trooper with sundown 2000 amp switching different combinations in and out.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

DavidRam said:


> This ^^^. AND excellent customer service...


now with paid return shipping for warranty issues!


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

rob feature said:


> now with paid return shipping for warranty issues!


Things like these are why I decided not to sell my Sundown amp. Ran it hard at 1ohm for 18months and the thing didn't even get warm.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

I was a huge JL fan, got up to the W6v3 amongst others. One go with an SA-12 changed all that for me. Barring price difference, Sundown was simply a far better all-rounder. SPL was far better, and SQ was night and day difference in favour of Sundown, with the SA-12 feeling almost as tight as my Hybrid Audio ... which really is light-years ahead of JL for SQ!

Personally I've never been a fan of the W7, never owned one but I've heard a few. You can excuse that by calling out the install, but I think _'that excuse'_ can be somewhat overused. I prefer to say that for me the sub just never lived up to any of my expectations. In isolation even the worst performer can sound good. It's when you start to bring in comparisons that things go awry. 

But for me the price point is just a bitter pill to swallow with JL. *On a side note (this might not apply)* Living in the UK, since the Brexit decision last year the price of JL gear has jumped up. I bought my CP108 (in video) for £238. you'll now pay £319 that's a 40%+ up-shift in price. Where's the justification for it? 

CP108LG-W3v3 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Systems - MicroSubâ„¢ - JL Audio






In terms of competition, I think JL priced itself out of the market a long time ago. I love some JL gear, but unless there was a specific project for which only JL would fit the bill, I simply wouldn't give them a second look ... and I don't think in this instance those circumstances have presented themselves, hence why you're considering Sundown. 

Sorry JL, but until you bring out something that can equal or better the competition, and for a reasonable price, I'd chose Sundown all day every day!


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Iamsecond said:


> I still do not understand the misconception about sundown x series.


I think it's an easy one. The misconception is

SPL subs - can't do SQ

SQ subs - can't get loud

call it ignorance perpetuated ... like QTS dictating the type of enclosure or a singular parameter being the overriding factor in how a sub performs. You can try and educate/correct, but in this day and age, it's often greeted with anger and insults.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Any sub will have enough output to blend into a real SQ install.


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## jaandrade79 (May 17, 2017)

I guess I am a car audio simpleton. I am loving my new JL 12"tw3-d4 on a measly 500 watt alpine amp. I built the custom ported box (factory spec port) to go under the rear seat in my 14 Silverado double cab. It sounds good. I thought I was moving up in the world when I chose it for my install,lol.

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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Naw man, don't say that about yourself. Your in the game. I was in Raleigh NC this week with a guy who has the same sub on a jl amp at 500 in a f150 super cab and he loves it for the most part. It sounds good. He has had it for a while but he is already talking about upgrading. Enjoy the set up. What you have is more than plenty for the average person. But when the sickness strikes its game on. I will say this though. And this may seemed biased because I dig sundown, but a the jltw312 is no comparison to the sundown sd3 12 in a ported box. That being said the sd3 must be on about 750-1000 but I don't think the jl can handle that kind of power. These are just empirical statements.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

jaandrade79 said:


> I guess I am a car audio simpleton. I am loving my new JL 12"tw3-d4 on a measly 500 watt alpine amp. I built the custom ported box (factory spec port) to go under the rear seat in my 14 Silverado double cab. It sounds good. I thought I was moving up in the world when I chose it for my install,lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Don't get me wrong, I'm far from a hater ... even though it may not look like it. If I had to have a complete JL system, I would consider myself very lucky. I've owned far worse than JL (Vibe Audio), and one thing I can't really fault is the way in which JL designs and builds their products. They are solid as long as someone doesn't shave 10,000 watts into a 6W3v3 I'm sure any JL sub will last you well for years, .. unlike my Vibe Audio sub ... (dig, dig)!!!

Dare I say it was my experience with Vibe that turned me onto JL. I simply wanted a subwoofer that wouldn't fail after a few months, and I knew I had to stop buying cheap rubbish and actually _invest_ in something that would last. I have to add that I went through two Blaupunkt subs almost as quickly as the Vibe subs. 

The problem for me ..... comes when I was confronted with the SA-12. Given I'd nearly done £500 on the W6v3 and i got the SA-12 for £175 ... (if i remember rightly), that things took a nose dive with me and JL. The Sundown did all that JL did, build, performance, and more, but for £175 instead of £500. I couldn't just let that slip! 

The problem is that flies never settle on audio enthusiasts. I think most are always looking for the next thing, better this, more that. But when it comes to money I tend to get a bit prickly when I look back in hindsight. 

However I stand by my statements about the recent price hike and ask rhetorically; where's the justification for it? 

I went through the same thing with my B&O Beosound 1 back in 2000. It launched with a retail price of £750. a year or so later it then went up to £925 (which is the price i paid). Before ending production it went well above £1,000. How can you justify that? Excuses where made about the price of aluminium, but i take that to be marketing hype at best. 

As for the Brexit thing, It's not just JL. Hertz has shoot up in price as well. I was looking at the Hertz Mille Pro MPX 165.3. That used to retail for around £155 ... now its at £199 Four Car Audio


Sorry for the diatribe.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I agree about jl. They are innovators for sure and jl stuff is and always been amazing. As a matter of fact I still run 2 jl 10w0 4 in my 4Runner at the moment on a sundown 1000. I have had sd3, sa,e etc but we keep selling them so I just put these in. I bought them for my son but am using them until I finish his install. I like them. but I am also waiting for the si be mkiv to come out. That being said you can get great sound when your dealing with good stuff. They all have strengths and weaknesses perse but it comes down to budget and space and power available.


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## jaandrade79 (May 17, 2017)

I was just having a little fun. I love my sub. I looked at sundown but they didn't have a shallow enough sub. As far as I can tell the JL is the best 12" I could find with that shallow a mount. It barely fits under the back seat and my kids still have a little leg room. But dad pounds!

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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Also to op you can get 2 x12 for less than 1jl 13w7. 
That being said the sundown really needs at least the 2000. It can handle 3000 but you have to be careful.


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## Icecube91 (Mar 10, 2016)

So what are the main differences I am gonna see between a JL 13W7 on a JL HD 1200 amp and a Sundown X 12 on a Sundown 2000D amp? Im looking sounds wise on rap music. Will the X kill just the lows and not be good in the higher range like 50-60hertz? and will the JL be good all around sub that can hit any note lows and especially the higher notes better than the X?


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> I was a huge JL fan, got up to the W6v3 amongst others. ... Living in the UK, since the Brexit decision last year the price of JL gear has jumped up. .... In terms of competition, I think JL priced itself out of the market a long time ago. I love some JL gear, but ...
> Sorry JL, but until you bring out something that can equal or better the competition, and for a reasonable price, I'd chose Sundown all day every day!


(sorry, many post trimming here, hopefully it didn't mess up your message)
hey there, over here the JL stuff is appropriately/reasonably priced. If it's in the UK due to the Brexit and geopolitical/exchange rate situation, that will certainly make it quite nasty as you have mentioned!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Icecube91 said:


> So what are the main differences I am gonna see between a JL 13W7 on a JL HD 1200 amp and a Sundown X 12 on a Sundown 2000D amp? Im looking sounds wise on rap music. Will the X kill just the lows and not be good in the higher range like 50-60hertz? and will the JL be good all around sub that can hit any note lows and especially the higher notes better than the X?


I can't speak for JL, but the Sundown will do very well in the higher range, too. There is now reason why it wouldn't...


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

diy.phil said:


> (sorry, many post trimming here, hopefully it didn't mess up your message)
> hey there, over here the JL stuff is appropriately/reasonably priced. If it's in the UK due to the Brexit and geopolitical/exchange rate situation, that will certainly make it quite nasty as you have mentioned!


You could say that I've jumped to conclusions and that the price hike is just a natural part of JL's pricing strategy, but in conjunction with the Hertz price hike and Brexit i think they're all to close not to be linked. commentators said that the cost of living would go up from food to Pertrol (gas) and you could say it's only a 30% for us UK enthusiasts. But when said widget cost £150, 30% starts to look a bit costly. If it were a can of Baked Beans, I might not have noticed ... because i can't stand baked beans



Icecube91 said:


> So what are the main differences I am gonna see between a JL 13W7 on a JL HD 1200 amp and a Sundown X 12 on a Sundown 2000D amp? Im looking sounds wise on rap music. Will the X kill just the lows and not be good in the higher range like 50-60hertz? and will the JL be good all around sub that can hit any note lows and especially the higher notes better than the X?


I would say both output and SQ. I've never been that impressed by the W7, i've not heard the 13 in particular. 

As for amps, I don't think quoting a figure is all there is to amps. I found the Alpine amps i had, whilst sounding good and looking good on the spec sheet, left me wanting when it came to using them for my sub-stage. I found my JL amps gave a more meaty sub-stage in comparison my Alpine amps. But i would say the same when comparing the HD to a Sundown sub-stage. Don't let the huge *'Tire Inner-tube'* surround of the Sundown and the huge looking garish amps fool you into thinking it can't do a bit of SQ. And when it comes to both SPL and SQ, again I've yet to hear a JL better Sundown.


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## Icecube91 (Mar 10, 2016)

So you think both will be loud. Im coming from 2 12" JL Audio W0 on a Alpine 500watt amp. So i want a single sub now. Do you think the 13 W7 will have a bit less output than the Sundown X but will have better SQ? And for the Sundown it will kill the lows over the W7 but might not have good upper bass?


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

SQ is subjective, loudness by ear is also somewhat subjective. I find a that your average enthusiast has a problem distinguishing between low bass and loud bass and more often than not will choose the latter. It's like those who can't distinguish between Loudness and SPL (Drag comps) 






Not saying anyone here is 'average'. Of course the alignment is near top priority. Stick the Sundown in a .60 cu ft sealed enclosure (if it could fit) and you stuck the 13W7 into a perfect alignment then the JL will come out on top. All things being relatively equal however, which more or less what i did with the W6v3 and SA-12, and the SA was a clear and streaks ahead winner over the JL. But of course that's my experience. 

For me budget is important and I see know reason to pay more money for less performance on all subjective fronts. You might have a JL fanboy that will disagree, but I'm not a fanboy for anything other than my wallet and getting the most for as little outlay as possible ... and on that level, again, JL simply does not cut the mustard. 

The W7 is a nice driver, i'm not here to say it's not. But for me the few 12 W7's that i have experienced just left me thinking ... _meh_. Someone else might latch onto and scream that it's the best thing since sliced bread. For me it was an average to less than average performer. If one think the W7 is where it's at, I would suggest getting out more. Now conversely I've never tried the 8W7 ... but it's still on my *'buy & try before I die'* list


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## Icecube91 (Mar 10, 2016)

Im thinking of going to the Sundown X 12. What do you think will run the sub the best a Sundown 2000D or a American Bass VFL 120.1


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Hands up I don't know much about American bass, but I try and go for quality not quantity 

This is what Gordon the amp Doctor told me



> The entry level Hifonics stuff for example the BXI1608D is pretty shoddy inside. I'd guess that they spend more on the chrome and LED's than on the circuit board, and a colleague in the US has had similar issues.
> The Foil on the board is thin and blows like a fuse so repairs become a major headache.
> 
> The XX Maximus is good quality but I'd have thought it was out of his budget range.
> ...


I don't know if American Bass falls into the the HiFonics & Audiobahn side of things, but it seems like he's pretty ok with Sundown.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

American bass is good if you stick to the Big silver VFL amps.


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Icecube91 said:


> Im thinking of going to the Sundown X 12. What do you think will run the sub the best a Sundown 2000D or a American Bass VFL 120.1


Again, I would go with the Sundown. I have never used an American Bass but I couldn't be happier with my Sundown amp. They would probably be my first choice in a sub amp if I were looking for another one. Great value.


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## wsvc206 (May 22, 2017)

JL Audio


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

the x12 will make you a happy camper with rap.


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## Ericm1205 (May 10, 2016)

I would go Jl as well but not the W7. Go for the W6 instead. I had a pair for a few year in a sealed box. They are thight bass and good SQ subs and also will do rap really well my girl loves EDM and they dig down and play all that electronic bass. Plus they only need 500-600 watt rms max. So you done need a massive amp for them. 

I did listen to a few sundowns. I am a fan. They are good products. But for me, I need space and 500 watts per is a def win win. 
I bought a third W6 and I am building a 4th order box for all 3 via jl audio specs. 
Sealed side only needs 2.25 cuft and ported is 2.4 cuft with an 8" port 10" long. 
Which will only take up half my trunk. 
Don't know many subs can use that small of 4th order..

I'm also a fan of PSI subs. Customize it. But they are power hungry. 
And Skar are awesome as well. Cheaper of all and need less watts of most too.

Also Steve mead tested these Russian 12's called Pride Audio. The sheer size and build quality were impressive. 

Anything with a good clean amp will sound good.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

JL Hands down. if anyone thinks any Sundown sub has better tonality, attack and decay, you need your ears checked. Seriously.


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## Hoye0017 (Mar 23, 2010)

I see threads like this and consistently any anti-JL sentiment seems to be based on price. You always see phrases like "not worth it for the money" or "you could get 2 of X for the same price". Typically these phrases go with other phrases like "they will sound great but..." or "they're amazing but..." Often there are price quotes and discussion about how that money could be spent elsewhere. I swear no one ever just flat out says they don't like them. 

What does this say to me? JL makes a quality product that can consistently meet or exceed expectations in pretty much any application...as long as you have the dough. 

So OP, if you have the means, go JL. My personal experience matches what others have said here: Unless you can build a perfect ported box or give a Sealed W7 more than 1200w, go with the W6 instead. W6's always sound good and get loud. I've owned or heard a lot of them, all the way back to the 1st gen and have never been disappointed.


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## jaandrade79 (May 17, 2017)

I had my voice altered once by a ride in a friend's civic. He had 2-12s on a JL amp and it just absolutely slammed! I was riding in the back seat and when i got out of the car the first few sentences I said where in a different voice. I was surprised and we had a good laugh. At that point I was sold on JL. We also had 2 old school JL w6 8s on a 1000 Memphis audio amp in a tiny box installed in our kenworth w900 front seat. They didn't have the best low frequency but they hit so hard I was impressed and we loved them. You could hear them slamming when the truck was running and it had a CAT engine. I now rock my thin JL 12" and enjoy it on my 90 mile round trip to work. Was laughing and listening to old Nelly E.I. the other. 

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