# Can a brand new subwoofer that’s professionally tuned blow in 2 weeks?



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

had a new amp and sub installed 2 weeks ago. They tuned it and everything now just driving to work subwoofer blew.. what should I do?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Yes it can, and you should call the install shop.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Store Owner trying to rip me off?


I




www.diymobileaudio.com





never mind this thread.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Didn't you post the EXACT same question two weeks ago... in a different thread?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Is this the replacement from the other thread?


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Theslaking said:


> Is this the replacement from the other thread?


Yes it’s the replacement. This time I had him install a new amp and sub and now the sub blew...


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Yes cause this is an ongoing issue. I don’t understand what the issue is. I play normal music, nothing crazy regular rap and hip hop. I don’t understand how I’m pushing to much on it when the bass knob is at 3/4 way and I’m playing drake


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> ... I don’t understand what the issue is...


It Is probably good time to review expectations and SPL requirements.

Do you rip apart the suspension or burn up a voice coil?

You should be burning up more of these until one understands why.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> It Is probably good time to review expectations and SPL requirements.
> 
> Do you rip apart the suspension or burn up a voice coil?
> 
> You should be burning up more of these until one understands why.


No idea what it is. I just don’t get how it can blow so easily. Equipment is so expensive, shouldn’t it be less fragile? At this point I’m scared to play anything because it blows so easily


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## mark3004 (Oct 4, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Yes cause this is an ongoing issue. I don’t understand what the issue is. I play normal music, nothing crazy regular rap and hip hop. I don’t understand how I’m pushing to much on it when the bass knob is at 3/4 way and I’m playing drake


It doesn't matter how much you turn the knob, if the gain amplifier is not tuned appropriately. What the bass knob do, just sub volume or bass boost? Which amp/sub we're talking about?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> No idea what it is. I just don’t get how it can blow so easily. Equipment is so expensive, shouldn’t it be less fragile? At this point I’m scared to play anything because it blows so easily


Exactly...
The first one blew.
The second one blew.

And having no idea why, means the number 3-n should repeatedly blow.

And, as a start... we need to know what "it blew" means.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

mark3004 said:


> It doesn't matter how much you turn the knob, if the gain amplifier is not tuned appropriately. What the bass knob do, just sub volume or bass boost? Which amp/sub we're talking about?


The installer tuned it so shouldn’t it be good? The bass knob is for sub volume. It’s a kenwood excelon xr901-5 amp and a 12” DVC clarion sub in ported box 500w at 2ohms. 
I thought since the installer tuned it, it shouldn’t Be a problem


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> Exactly...
> The first one blew.
> The second one blew.
> 
> ...


By saying it blew I mean it’s very quiet and makes an odd sound, it’s not bass it’s just noise. I’m just really frustrated cause it’s a lot of money for me and no idea why this is happening.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Either your installer did a poor job, or you've messed with the settings on the amp. Gains should be set to that even if the bass knob is maxed out for a song here and there you shouldn't have any problems.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

MrGreen83 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I sat down on the couch, turned on the TV, grabbed my phone to see the notification from this thread. I look up at the tv and I see this!










Tango and Cash is on.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

I only have one 12" sub and I push it hard... mine is in a sealed box though so it can take a little more than rated power. Please post pictures of your sub and amps as well as model numbers if you have them. and pictures of the box. but at the end of the day what the main underlying issue issue is... is too much power. But you need to identify how and why you got too much power to it. Sounds like gain was set too high. There is also a slim chance of something else like wrong enclosure size, wired out of phase... but those are more of speculation and not as likley. i think its too much power.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

I say if it’s blowing and the only settings are the ones the dealer set.....then take it back to him and let him see what’s going on. He set the gains, crossover points, etc. So unless u changed something, he should be willing to take a look. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

gijoe said:


> Either your installer did a poor job, or you've messed with the settings on the amp. Gains should be set to that even if the bass knob is maxed out for a song here and there you shouldn't have any problems.


Thank you that’s exactly how I understood it. I definitely didn’t touch the gain setting. Maybe the installer just doesn’t know how to tune. Everyone’s saying this is my fault and all I did was pay someone a lot of money and play some music.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Yeah. It has to be on the installer if you didn't touch anything.

The last two installs I did I refused to tell them how to change the settings (both Dayton 408's) until they let me teach them what they mean. I'm like" I'll show you the app, BT, and wired remote when when you learn something". I actually kept the parts at my house!


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Theslaking said:


> Yeah. It has to be on the installer if you didn't touch anything.
> 
> The last two installs I did I refused to tell them how to change the settings (both Dayton 408's) until they let me teach them what they mean. I'm like" I'll show you the app, BT, and wired remote when when you learn something". I actually kept the parts at my house!


I’m at a point where I just want to tell him to take it all back cause i don’t want it. I’m to scared the next one is gonna break again.
Makes sense people should touch what they don’t know about.


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## Clvol1255 (Aug 6, 2020)

I’d say either something is wrong with the subwoofer or amplifier or your installer did a terrible job at setting your gains properly if you truly didn’t touch anything on the amp after install was done. Was the equipment bought new or used?


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Wiktorrrr said:


> By saying it blew I mean it’s very quiet and makes an odd sound, it’s not bass it’s just noise. I’m just really frustrated cause it’s a lot of money for me and no idea why this is happening.


what kind of sound is it making. Like a scratching sound or a rattling sound? Did you smell anything when you started hearing the noise?

Just because you paid someone money doesn’t mean it’s going to be fool proof and you have no responsibility. If you hear distortion turn it down. If it really is blown I can only think it’s either a poor tune/install or just too high expectations on your part without taking notice of what is actually happening. Try to think a little about what actually happened and why. That will help you not only figure out what’s going on but what to avoid in the future and what the signs are if the issue is coming up again.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Back in the day we had a problem customer who kept blowing his subs. Every 2 or 3 weeks, he'd come back with another blown sub. He swore up and down that he didn't touch any settings, so we marked where the gains were set on the Amp. Sure as **** he came back the 2 weeks later with a blown sub. We checked the Amp and found the gains had turned up from out marks. The customer said "well my friend adjusted my Amp for more bass but he knows about this stuff". We told him his friend did not, and fried his sub. Experiences like this make you suspect of all situations like this. 

That said, there's a few things that could be going on here. Your installer should be able to figure out what happened. We would see a lot of people start messing with bass boost and other settings on their head units and fry subs. I had one installer buddy who had a ton of returns against him because he insisted that tuning it for 3/4 volume was right because most head units would start clipping then and people should turn it down at that point. I told him that people would just turn it back up a million times. He never listened until he was sent packing for all the returns. 

Me on the other hand as an installer who liked having a job, I tuned amps by maxing everything so it sounded like ****. Looked for the gain where it started to clip, then backed the gain off 10 degrees for safety factor. I had very few returns, and a steady paycheck as a result, even if people weren't getting all the bass they could have. 

The only other thing I can say is a lot of subs need break in time. 2 or 3 weeks of regular use at like half tilt just to get the surrounds loosened up and everything. It doesn't really make a ton of sense from a technical standpoint, but it worked in my experience.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

You can always just get a bigger sub.

Like this Sundown, I doubt your amp could blow this sub. There's some cheaper ones that hold alot of power as well. Not sure what model# the clarion was but I'm sure you can just easily find a beefier sub woofer and not have to worry about this again.... as long as youre not clipping your amplifier and damage the amp







Sundown Audio SA-12 V.2 D4 12" 1000W RMS Dual 4-Ohm SA V.2 Series Subwoofer


<p><strong>Enclosure Recommendations:</strong><br /><br /> Mounting Depth: 7.36"<br /> Cutout Diameter: 11.08"<br /> Magnet Diameter: 7.80"<br /> Sealed Enclosure: 0.75 ft^3<br />&nbs




www.woofersetc.com


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

I see this


Wiktorrrr said:


> sub in ported box


and I wonder ... is a subsonic filter active? Playing Drake without a subsonic filter can easily let the magic smoke out of a sub in a ported box. Just sayin'

I feel it is important to note that I cannot listen to Drake, it's like fingernails on a blackboard for me ... but the basslines in his songs dig deep, that's a fact. I could listen to instrumental versions of his songs I suppose lol.


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## clifff150 (Apr 19, 2012)

I agree that I think it is blowing because of the Drake songs. How anyone can listen to that atrocious crap is beyond me


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## Greyhound (Jun 15, 2013)

Destarah said:


> I see this
> 
> and I wonder ... is a subsonic filter active? Playing Drake without a subsonic filter can easily let the magic smoke out of a sub in a ported box. Just sayin'
> 
> I feel it is important to note that I cannot listen to Drake, it's like fingernails on a blackboard for me ... but the basslines in his songs dig deep, that's a fact. I could listen to instrumental versions of his songs I suppose lol.





clifff150 said:


> I agree that I think it is blowing because of the Drake songs. How anyone can listen to that atrocious crap is beyond me



Its great.....just cut off everything above 80HZ....


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Destarah said:


> I see this
> 
> and I wonder ... is a subsonic filter active? Playing Drake without a subsonic filter can easily let the magic smoke out of a sub in a ported box. Just sayin'
> 
> I feel it is important to note that I cannot listen to Drake, it's like fingernails on a blackboard for me ... but the basslines in his songs dig deep, that's a fact. I could listen to instrumental versions of his songs I suppose lol.


And ya from canada eh??? And you dont like Drake. LOL - (neither do I)


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

What is the box tuned to? Do you know if the xmax is in check? We're there any simulations involved when designing? You can throw alot more than rated power at subs as long as your not exceeding xmax. A well designed ported box is supposed to take that into account. And the installer is supposed to limit the frequency's low end so that your sub will not play below tuned frequency and thus "unload"...


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

heavy sigh ...


JaySea20 said:


> You can throw alot more than rated power at subs as long as your not exceeding xmax.


Here we go again 
FYI, you can burn out a voice coil on a sub without exceeding xmax ... the ratings aren't there for amusment, they are there to provide actionable information regarding the speakers electromechanical limitations.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

JaySea20 said:


> What is the box tuned to? Do you know if the xmax is in check? We're there any simulations involved when designing? You can throw alot more than rated power at subs as long as your not exceeding xmax. A well designed ported box is supposed to take that into account. And the installer is supposed to limit the frequency's low end so that your sub will not play below tuned frequency and thus "unload"...


No idea what it’s tuned to, they just gave me the keys and said enjoy. Maybe their tuning device is off cause this is the second time this has happened.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

It really depends, you can do either. My sub I have is in a sealed box and it bottoms out before the coil ever burns up or smells..... I run it hard until i hear it bottom out and then turn the volume down a few clicks... then again, maybe its burning up and i just cant smell it through the sealed box.... LOL

I think OP needs a beefier subwoofer with higher RMS rating and possibly a subsonic filter up to his boxes tuning frequency


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> No idea what it’s tuned to, they just gave me the keys and said enjoy. Maybe their tuning device is off cause this is the second time this has happened.


Well, if I were you, I would ask the installer some of these questions. Like:
What frequency is the box/port tuned for?
Where did the box specs come from?
Were the amp's gains set properly, or did they "wing it"?

Either way, nobody is going to be able to give you an answer to why they are blowing untill more info is provided. 

There are are some real professional installers on this forum. But, you probably won't get there attention with how little info you have provided. 

I know this is frustrating for you. Not all installers are good at what they do. And further, not all operators are friendly to their equipment. Sounds to me like you need a "fool proof" install. 

I, personally, don't install any bass adjustment knobs in other people's vehicles. Since, I tend to use larger amps than necessary for the headroom. And I don't want them getting themselves in trouble with it.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I missed that part whether VC was blown or the suspension fell apart...

Do they normally still play sound (thinly) with a burnt out VC?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

That amp does not have a sub sonic filter that i can see, and you have a ported box. Thats not good.
This bass knob you speak of, did the installer set it to 3/4? or did you turn it up?


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Any chance that a defective amp is the cause? Like it's sending way more power to the sub channel than it should? I seem to remember a certain amp model that was defective from the factory and was sending crazy amounts of power to a particular channel as soon as it was turned on - or something along those lines. Just wondering if we are talking about something similar here.

Although, if that were the case, you'd think that it would blow the sub a lot faster than it does.

Just throwing it out there since it's happened to multiple different subs now.

OP - what volume level are you listening at when they blow? I know this question is relative, but is it crazy loud when it blows the sub or is it not that loud at all? Just trying to get some idea of the listening level.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> That amp does not have a sub sonic filter that i can see, and you have a ported box. Thats not good.
> This bass knob you speak of, did the installer set it to 3/4? or did you turn it up?


The bass knob he said I can use to turn the volume of the sub up and down, when he was tuning he put the knob to max.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

jtrosky said:


> Any chance that a defective amp is the cause? Like it's sending way more power to the sub channel than it should? I seem to remember a certain amp model that was defective from the factory and was sending crazy amounts of power to a particular channel as soon as it was turned on - or something along those lines. Just wondering if we are talking about something similar here.
> 
> Although, if that were the case, you'd think that it would blow the sub a lot faster than it does.
> 
> ...


I usually have the music volume on my head unit almost all the way up, and the sub volume at 3/4. Yesterday it blew when I dared to turn the sub volume up on the bass knob to max for like a minute. But there wasn’t any distortion or burning smell.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

That’s the specs for the sub and the amp


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

The input gains are set REALLY high. And if you are plaing your HU at full tilt, then i guarantee you are playing a clipped signal thru that sub.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

See I took that sub gain as being set to almost the very minimum? They really need to make the "arrow" more obvious on gain knobs though.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jtrosky said:


> See I took that sub gain as being set to almost the very minimum? They really need to make the "arrow" more obvious on gain knobs though.





jtrosky said:


> See I took that sub gain as being set to almost the very minimum? They really need to make the "arrow" more obvious on gain knobs though.


I "think" the set point is at the line that is on the circle not the flat. At least thats how i was seeing it and why i posted. if i am wrong then he has other issues, like why is is LP filter on his sub at 175hz


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

miniSQ said:


> I "think" the set point is at the line that is on the circle not the flat. At least thats how i was seeing it and why i posted. if i am wrong then he has other issues, like why is is LP filter on his sub at 175hz


You know, looking at it again, I think you might be right about that. Initially, I thought that there was an "arrow" on the flat part when I looked at the Sub Bass Boost knob, but that doesn't seem to be the case - so I think that you are probably right and the gains are way too high. 

EDIT: Yeah, the LPF and HPF settings make more sense if the knobs are as you describe. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Blue_Horseshoe (May 14, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> I "think" the set point is at the line that is on the circle not the flat. At least thats how i was seeing it and why i posted. if i am wrong then he has other issues, like why is is LP filter on his sub at 175hz


Agreed, that’s how I see it. The raised portion is the needle in my mind.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

is it mean or does it look like the gains are set super high? If you are cracking on it, messing with a bass knob, yep stuff gonna go south. I would bet, that you are clipping and sending a really distorted signal to the subs. Since this is the second time this has happened. Also, do you mess with setting on the head unit. Not saying you did, but my son does this all the time. He will go in a bump up the bass and bass boost settings. I can tell anytime hes been in my car. Ive been with him and sometimes what he thinks is bass, is distortion.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Jroo said:


> is it mean or does it look like the gains are set super high? If you are cracking on it, messing with a bass knob, yep stuff gonna go south. I would bet, that you are clipping and sending a really distorted signal to the subs. Since this is the second time this has happened. Also, do you mess with setting on the head unit. Not saying you did, but my son does this all the time. He will go in a bump up the bass and bass boost settings. I can tell anytime hes been in my car. Ive been with him and sometimes what he thinks is bass, is distortion.


No the head unit settings are set to default. I read about how messing with those can break the sub so I don’t touch them. So it seems like the gains are just set to high?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I usually have the music volume on my head unit almost all the way up, and the sub volume at 3/4. Yesterday it blew when I dared to turn the sub volume up on the bass knob to max for like a minute. But there wasn’t any distortion or burning smell.


Sorry to hear you are having issues, but this sounds like a bit of an not great install and some user error. I think the only time I have had the volume on my head unit maxed was to figure out where it was clipping.


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## Blue_Horseshoe (May 14, 2020)

What kind of car is it?
Is it the factory hu or aftermarket?
How is it hooked up to the amp? RCAs or speaker level?


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

The sub’s specs put the max continuous RMS wattage @ 500w.
(_It is a 4 ohm DVC, so I’m assuming that’s 250w per VC._)

The amp’s specs list its max RMS wattage (at 2 ohms) @ 600w.

If the installer wired the VCs in parallel, that’s a 2 ohm load, so 600w from amp vs 500w at sub...not ideal, but hardly fried egg territory.

The ported box’s tuning frequency is the wildcard...if it is in the 40 Hz range, the lack of a subsonic filter on the amp might just be more than the sub could live with(out).


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> No the head unit settings are set to default. I read about how messing with those can break the sub so I don’t touch them. So it seems like the gains are just set to high?


from the pic which it was hard to tell, but it looks like the input gains are up really high. Doesnt matter if you are changing setting on the head unit. If you are playing music up to the max as you stated, you might already have issues simply by how how the gain is set.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Jroo said:


> Sorry to hear you are having issues, but this sounds like a bit of an not great install and some user error. I think the only time I have had the volume on my head unit maxed was to figure out where it was clipping.


Just so I understand this better, isn’t the whole point of tuning the amp so you don’t hear or have to worry to much about distortion?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Blue_Horseshoe said:


> What kind of car is it?
> Is it the factory hu or aftermarket?
> How is it hooked up to the amp? RCAs or speaker level?


2017 Kia Forte 
Factory hu. Speaker level ins


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Just so I understand this better, isn’t the whole point of tuning the amp so you don’t hear or have to worry to much about distortion?


We have to know more about what you mean or what your installer meant by tuning? I assume gains were set and you should have an idea what volume clipping starts. Believe me, I am not smartest guy here and others can give a much better description. I also dont want to say the install is bad as I dont know. I just mention that if you are listening to music on max pretty often, this combination with equipment that might have been "tuned" correctly will smoke equipment.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> 2017 Kia Forte
> Factory hu. Speaker level ins


I wonder how clean the signal from a kia factory head maxed out would be?


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Jroo said:


> I wonder how clean the signal from a kia factory head maxed out would be?


About as clean as my boxer shorts the morning after a malt liquor and Taco Bell bender.


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## Blue_Horseshoe (May 14, 2020)

Well I should have looked because that amp doesn’t even have high level inputs, so you must have a line out converter right? Can you post a pic of the other side of the amp as well?


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

Your turning a Factory Head Unit to max? And you say you don't hear distortion?


I guess its possible. But, its probable that that signal is nowhere close to clean.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Blue_Horseshoe said:


> Well I should have looked because that amp doesn’t even have high level inputs, so you must have a line out converter right? Can you post a pic of the other side of the amp as well?


It accepts low or high-level inputs via the same RCA input jacks.

Here is a link to the manual:

https://manual.kenwood.com/files/B5A-2353-00_00.pdf


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Here is what the manual shows for the inputs - either RCAs from an aftermarket headunit or "speaker line to male RCA adapter" for an OEM unit using speaker-level outputs:


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

JaySea20 said:


> Your turning a Factory Head Unit to max? And you say you don't hear distortion?
> 
> 
> I guess its possible. But, its probable that that signal is nowhere close to clean.


this and messing with a bass knob as well. We also have to factor in not sure what the tuning or size of the box they placed the sub in. 

Also to be honest, some of this stuff should have been discussed by the shop and the installer. OP already had equipment issues and they did some "tuning". The installer really should sit with the OP a few minutes and clear up system use.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

JaySea20 said:


> Your turning a Factory Head Unit to max? And you say you don't hear distortion?
> 
> 
> I guess its possible. But, its probable that that signal is nowhere close to clean.


I’d say I put it to 90%, no distortion on most songs at max but if I do hear some I just turn it down a bit till it goes away


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## Blue_Horseshoe (May 14, 2020)

jtrosky said:


> Here is what the manual shows for the inputs - either RCAs from an aftermarket headunit or "speaker line to male RCA adapter" for an OEM unit using speaker-level outputs:


Perhaps it is me that is confused now, but all the info I can find shows that it has preamp inputs only, the acceptance of RCAs doesn’t mean it will accept high level inputs.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Jroo said:


> I wonder how clean the signal from a kia factory head maxed out would be?


When I just had the factory speakers there wasn’t any distortion at all on max volume. With the new speakers some songs have a bit of distortion but I just turn it down when it appears.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Blue_Horseshoe said:


> Perhaps it is me that is confused now, but all the info I can find shows that it has preamp inputs only, the acceptance of RCAs doesn’t mean it will accept high level inputs.


I believe the put in speaker line to rca adapters. I know there isn’t a LOC but there are rca jacks connected to the amp


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm gonna just clear the confusion up, you sent **** loads of DC power to your sub and fried it. By maxing out the crappy Kia head unit, and the bass boost, you've got a lot of slipping going on and burned out your sub with all that DC power. We had more than a few customers who did this and so we put fuses in line on their subs. Saved us warranty dollars and saved the subs. A few subs actually come with fuses built in. 

Basically, you don't have enough Amp for what volume level you want. You need more power to everything, and probably a second sub, if you keep cranking it to max volume.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> When I just had the factory speakers there wasn’t any distortion at all on max volume. With the new speakers some songs have a bit of distortion but I just turn it down when it appears.


Im going to go out on a limb and say if you are on max volume or anywhere close, you had distortion. I had several discussion with my son who said he didnt hear anything and Im in the car 3 seconds and can hear speakers begging for mercy. That just might be my old man dad ears.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

FAUEE said:


> I'm gonna just clear the confusion up, you sent **** loads of DC power to your sub and fried it. By maxing out the crappy Kia head unit, and the bass boost, you've got a lot of slipping going on and burned out your sub with all that DC power. We had more than a few customers who did this and so we put fuses in line on their subs. Saved us warranty dollars and saved the subs. A few subs actually come with fuses built in.
> 
> Basically, you don't have enough Amp for what volume level you want. You need more power to everything, and probably a second sub, if you keep cranking it to max volume.


The bass knob isn’t for bass boost, it’s for subwoofer volume. For a good install doesnt everything have to be put to max and then you set the amp accordingly to prevent the speakers and sub from getting to much power? This preventing it From breaking?


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Blue_Horseshoe said:


> Perhaps it is me that is confused now, but all the info I can find shows that it has preamp inputs only, the acceptance of RCAs doesn’t mean it will accept high level inputs.


I agree - but the manual specifically shows using speaker-wire -to- RCA adapters to connect OEM head-unit speaker-level outputs to the RCA input jacks. I'm only going by what the amp manual shows. According to the manual, it can accept speaker-level outputs in the RCA input input jacks. 

However, the manual could always be wrong or "misleading" too...


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Jroo said:


> Im going to go out on a limb and say if you are on max volume or anywhere close, you had distortion. I had several discussion with my son who said he didnt hear anything and Im in the car 3 seconds and can hear speakers begging for mercy. That just might be my old man dad ears.


There is distortion sometimes but not always. My volume on the hu goes up to 45. I usually listen at 42, no distortion appears. Some songs will cause distortion, then I Turn it down to 38ish and it goes away


----------



## Blue_Horseshoe (May 14, 2020)

jtrosky said:


> I agree - but the manual specifically shows using speaker-wire -to- RCA adapters to connect OEM head-unit speaker-level outputs to the RCA input jacks. I'm only going by what the amp manual shows. According to the manual, it can accept speaker-level outputs in the RCA input input jacks.
> 
> However, the manual could always be wrong or "misleading" too...


Yeah, I hear you, and I imagine issues would have manifested prior to this point if it truly didn't accept high level inputs.



FAUEE said:


> I'm gonna just clear the confusion up, you sent **** loads of DC power to your sub and fried it. By maxing out the crappy Kia head unit, and the bass boost, you've got a lot of slipping going on and burned out your sub with all that DC power. We had more than a few customers who did this and so we put fuses in line on their subs. Saved us warranty dollars and saved the subs. A few subs actually come with fuses built in.
> 
> Basically, you don't have enough Amp for what volume level you want. You need more power to everything, and probably a second sub, if you keep cranking it to max volume.


This seems to be the answer. It seemed reasonable to you that your normal listening volume should be 93% of the total available from your headunit? This is ignoring that you said the second time this happened you had it turned all the way up and the sub dial all the way up "for just a second", contrary to your original framing of "it blew when I was listening at normal value with the bass knob at 3/4 listening to Drake."

You don't have enough system for the volume level you want.


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Blue_Horseshoe said:


> Yeah, I hear you, and I imagine issues would have manifested prior to this point if it truly didn't accept high level inputs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand there is a lot more to it then just turning on the car and playing music, my issue is that, I’m not sure what to do since I payed this installer to perform a service at the end of which he gives me the keys and says enjoy. How am I supposed to know all this? Shouldn’t everything be set so the equipment can’t get damaged so easily? Isn’t that the whole point of setting the amp according to the equipment I’m using?


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Bringing internet answers to your installer is going to get you nowhere. Be kind and courteous and hope that they have a good honest heart because the bad Google review you'll leave won't really matter.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Like I said earlier, get a beefier subwoofer. Get one that’s 1000 watts rms you can clip your amp until it blows and the sub will probably be ok. But to avoid clipping in the first place the Shop should have told him a volume number to stay under to avoid clipping. Ex-“Don’t go above volume #40/45” etc...


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

Your stock stereo system is designed for you to not be able to damage it. An aftermarket setup is NOT. Unless specifically designed to be bullet proof. And I doubt you asked for a Safe system. You probably asked for the loudest rap banging sub you could afford... Take a screwdriver, turn your gain all the way down, fixed...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

What does the installer say in his defense or what does he suggest?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> What does the installer say in his defense or what does he suggest?


I haven’t seen him yet. Working late today so I’ll drop my the store tomorrow morning.


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I payed this installer to perform a service at the end of which he gives me the keys and says enjoy.


This statement seems to be a big part of the issue as it seems you don’t want to take any responsibility to understand what the limitations of your system are. You just want to be able to turn it up without regard to potential consequences.

That’s like saying you bought a car that can go well over 100 MPH so you were flooring it without regard for the road or surroundings and you crashed. Is it the cars fault? Is it your responsibility to know the cars limits under certain conditions or is it the manufacturers responsibility to make sure the car never crashes?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

HIS4 said:


> This statement seems to be a big part of the issue as it seems you don’t want to take any responsibility to understand what the limitations of your system are. You just want to be able to turn it up without regard to potential consequences.


That’s not what I meant by that. What I’m trying to say is as a person who doesn’t know anything about any of this, how am I supposed to know I can’t turn it up past a certain volume? When he said “here are your keys, enjoy” to me that doesn’t sound very worrying about breaking the system.


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> That’s not what I meant by that. What I’m trying to say is as a person who doesn’t know anything about any of this, how am I supposed to know I can’t turn it up past a certain volume? When he said “here are your keys, enjoy” to me that doesn’t sound very worrying about breaking the system.


Unfortunately we all learn these lessons. Just most of us installed and destroyed our stuff on our own.


----------



## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

I agree that the installer should at least tell the customer what volume they shouldn't go above. Obviously, the person took it to a professional to install because he doesn't know the details about this stuff. In that kind of situation, the installer should make the system as fool-proof as possible so that the customer does NOT damage anything. 

After the OP blew the first sub, the installer _definitely_ should have explained what to do and what not to do in order to avoid running into the same situation again.

In regards to the car analogy, the car shouldn't fall apart just because the customer goes over the speed limit.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

In 


Wiktorrrr said:


> The bass knob isn’t for bass boost, it’s for subwoofer volume. For a good install doesnt everything have to be put to max and then you set the amp accordingly to prevent the speakers and sub from getting to much power? This preventing it From breaking?


In short, no.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> That’s not what I meant by that. What I’m trying to say is as a person who doesn’t know anything about any of this, how am I supposed to know I can’t turn it up past a certain volume? When he said “here are your keys, enjoy” to me that doesn’t sound very worrying about breaking the system.


If you said, the head unit volume goes to lets say 50 and I go to 30 and had issues, I would certainly where you are going and what you saying. You are saying I max out the volume to the top of the what the head unit does but dont understand why it keeps blowing. The only reference I can give is my old GTI. It was a manual and redline on that car was something like 6500 rpm. Could I take it to redline sure. If I wanted to keep the motor together going to 6500 daily wasnt going to be a good thing. My motor was built up pretty good for those times anyway. My engine builder never pulled me to the side and said, you know you cant readline this motor everyday. I think he just thought thats not something I need to run by him. I am assuming your installer doesnt think you go to 50 every time you play your music either. 

I would go back to the installer and nicely say, man I had an issue again. I dont want to keep burning up equipment and I know you dont want to keep wasting time fixing me. Can you sit down with me and tell me where the safe spot is for my listening style. If that safe spot doesnt satisfy you as in not being loud enough, move to different equipment as someone already mentioned. It sounds like a bigger amp and sub are in your future.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

I will say, though - that some OEM head-units actually can go to full volume without clipping. The OEM's seem to be getting better about that. Whether or not that is the case with the OP's car, I don't know - but again, I would hope the installer checked that - and they _should_ pass along the max un-clipped volume of the OEM head-unit to the customer.... Just good customer service, IMO. That's why people pay the professionals - because they may not know how to check that (or even that they should check it).


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

I just Tested the resistance on the 2 terminals of the subwoofer box and my multimeter shows 2ohms. Does that mean the voice coils are good? If so what would be the issue cause it to not work?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I just Tested the resistance on the 2 terminals of the subwoofer box and my multimeter shows 2ohms. Does that mean the voice coils are good? If so what would be the issue cause it to not work?


Is the suspension ripped?
We (I) am still unsure as to what exactly is blown.

A ported box, which is playing too low of frequency content, could over extend the subwoofer and destroy the suspension.


The question for the larger community is, "how can the sub have been clipped and burnt out with DC and yet still show 2-ohms resistance?"


----------



## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Are you sure the amp didn't bite the dust?


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> Is the suspension ripped?
> We (I) am still unsure as to what exactly is blown.
> 
> A ported box, which is playing too low of frequency content, could over extend the subwoofer and destroy the suspension.
> ...


What would a broken suspension look like? I just got home and tested the voice coils. Both show 4ohms and together in parallel 2 ohms


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

DR3W5K1 said:


> Are you sure the amp didn't bite the dust?


It’s a brand new amp, how would I know if it’s the amp?


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)




----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> It’s a brand new amp, how would I know if it’s the amp?


Put that volt meter onto v (AC) and attach it to the speaker terminals .
And play the music.

If the amp failed, it is possible that it could have taken out the first sub. But it is hard to envision how it would have worked at the shop afterwards.

You probbaly will have to return to the shop.


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> Put that volt meter onto v (AC) and attach it to the speaker terminals .
> And play the music.
> 
> If the amp failed, it is possible that it could have taken out the first sub. But it is hard to envision how it would have worked at the shop afterwards.
> ...


What am I looking for the meter to show when I attach it to the speaker terminal? The front speakers are fine, it’s the sub that’s problematic


----------



## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

That enclosure looks tiny, and the port looks like it is made from a rolled up cereal box. I did a quick Google search and cannot find ANY T/S parameters for this thing, nor does Clarion's website have the manual available for download. The picture posted earlier simply says Recommended enclosure size: 1.1 - 2.2 cuft ...
Where are you in Canada Wik? I am in the Toronto area


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Destarah said:


> That enclosure looks tiny, and the port looks like it is made from a rolled up cereal box. I did a quick Google search and cannot find ANY T/S parameters for this thing, nor does Clarion's website have the manual available for download. The picture posted earlier simply says Recommended enclosure size: 1.1 - 2.2 cuft ...
> Where are you in Canada Wik? I am in the Toronto area


I’m in Vancouver. No idea about the box, it’s what they gave me and the sub. Does it sound like it’s the amp that’s broken? I just noticed while the car is off, the amp power light is still on.. does that mean it’s on and drawing power?? Shouldn’t it turn off with the car??


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

The amp should be on when the radio is on and off when the radio is off.
Well, I can't offer to stop by and have a look ... bit of a commute lol


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> What am I looking for the meter to show when I attach it to the speaker terminal? The front speakers are fine, it’s the sub that’s problematic


What he means is test the speaker wires coming out of the subwoofer amp with the multimeter.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Destarah said:


> The amp should be on when the radio is on and off when the radio is off.
> Well, I can't offer to stop by and have a look ... bit of a commute lol


Haha definitely a bit of a commute, so it looks like the amp does turn off just not when the radio goes off, Once I lock my car it going off after like 2 minutes


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

DR3W5K1 said:


> What he means is test the speaker wires coming out of the subwoofer amp with the multimeter.


Oh okay. Test them for what? What am I looking for?


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

How can I tell if the suspension on the sub is broken?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Oh okay. Test them for what? What am I looking for?


I say put the DMM on v (AC).

You are then looking at what the AC voltage says... if anything.

Have you ever touched a 9V battery to your tongue? To see if it has any power in it?
It is the same concept here with the amplifier.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> How can I tell if the suspension on the sub is broken?


Push down on the sub it should not feel crunchy or make any sound.
If it does you have a problem


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

DR3W5K1 said:


> Push down on the sub it should not feel crunchy or make any sound.
> If it does you have a problem


Just tried it, it’s smooth doesn’t sound/feel like anything’s scratch


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> I say put the DMM on v (AC).
> 
> You are then looking at what the AC voltage says... if anything.
> 
> ...


Do I test the in voltage from the power wire or the sub output?


----------



## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

sub output


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Do I test the in voltage from the power wire or the sub output?


The sub only has an electrical input, and that is hooked up to amplifier's output.
So at the sub, or at the amp, is really the same thing as a wire connects the two together.

I was going to recommend a resister, but just leave the sub hooked up and do not complicate it.

While you are it measure the port's diameter and length with a tape measure.


----------



## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Yes cause this is an ongoing issue. I don’t understand what the issue is. I play normal music, nothing crazy regular rap and hip hop. I don’t understand how I’m pushing to much on it when the bass knob is at 3/4 way and I’m playing drake


He’s only plying drake tho


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

I've never even heard a Drake song, but it sounds like maybe his CD's should come with a warning label - "WARNING: The bass line on this CD will potentially blow your sub - use your volume control and/or bass knob with extreme caution!". ;-)


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## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I’m at a point where I just want to tell him to take it all back cause i don’t want it. I’m to scared the next one is gonna break again.
> Makes sense people should touch what they don’t know about.


Hi


Wiktorrrr said:


> Just so I understand this better, isn’t the whole point of tuning the amp so you don’t hear or have to worry to much about distortion?


yeah just untill the coil smells nice and toasty


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

I have noticed this as well whenever a rap song pops up on my music streaming service not all but a lot of the rap songs have an unusually high amount of bass and I have to turn my subwoofer level control down to compensate.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Do I test the in voltage from the power wire or the sub output?



While I still 100% recommend having someone that knows what they’re doing set your gains correctly so you’re not clipping your amplifier.... if you can’t afford to do that this link below is a “screw it in and be on your way” solution that I highly doubt will blow no matter how maxed out you have the volume. 









American Bass XR-12D2 12" Subwoofer Dual 2 Ohm 2400W Max 200 Oz. Magnet Single | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for American Bass XR-12D2 12" Subwoofer Dual 2 Ohm 2400W Max 200 Oz. Magnet Single at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com






Yes, if you can measure the external dimensions of the box so we can know the total cubic feet of air space in it. AND, measure the port/vent size where the air comes out of the box so we can help you pick a subwoofer with a higher rms rating that is well suited for the enclosure size. The link I posted above is a good example of a cheap solution with extreme power handling capabilities compared to the clarion sub you had. I also think a cheap inline rca subsonic filter is imperative so you’re not sending frequencies to the sub that are lower than your boxes tuning frequency but we won’t know that until you send us those dimensions of the box and the port size.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

FAUEE said:


> In
> 
> 
> In short, no.


What he says is correct if he mean you set the bass level knob to max, and the source to max Unclipped, that’s how I’d set it up... however it sounds like he doesn’t know what is safe and will be ok to play from and to...


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Not fool proof ever no matter what you do.

I suggest you learn what clipping is and what it sounds like.
Go from there.


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## credible (Sep 1, 2014)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Just tried it, it’s smooth doesn’t sound/feel like anything’s scratch



How much EQ are you adding to those rap and hip hop songs?


I like my system and it plays loud and clear for my music but I have to be careful when I put rap and hip hop on.

Makes me wonder if some of those bass notes are even real lol.


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## chemical_brother (Feb 7, 2007)

credible said:


> How much EQ are you adding to those rap and hip hop songs?
> 
> 
> I like my system and it plays loud and clear for my music but I have to be careful when I put rap and hip hop on.
> ...


Synthesized basslines are fun to make and listen to, but can definitely be taxing to a system. Add in a user's misunderstanding of a system's capabilities and limitations, and an incomplete knowledge of what damaged distortion or potentially damaging situations can sound like, and they're in for a rough ride.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

What blew on them?


----------



## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

I don't know what happend to op.

Maybe to much drake bashing?


----------



## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

He has started a 3rd thread now, asking if he should buy a Kenwood sub instead of a Clarion /sigh


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Destarah said:


> He has started a 3rd thread now, asking if he should buy a Kenwood sub instead of a Clarion /sigh


i was just thinking to myself why wont this thread go away LOL.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Im still wondering what happened to the sub.


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

best guess is that there is no subsonic filter and the box is likely tuned upwards of 35Hz ... see ya later

I have been playing around with WinISD to see what I can do with my old Kicker CompVR 12. On paper I can reach Xmax (12.5mm) at 20Hz (in a 3cuft box tuned to 30Hz) with only 85W of power if there is no subsonic filter. Imagine the destruction if I went ahead and fired 350W at it in such a scenario (26mm of excursion according to WinISD).


----------



## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

That American bass I posted earlier

Or this









NVX 12" VCW124 1000W RMS Subwoofer with Free NVX Grille | eBay


VCW124 1000W 12" VC-Series Dual 4-ohm Car Subwoofer + VCW12GR 12" Subwoofer Grille. NVX VCW124. Grill made for the VCW124 availableHere! VCW12GR,VCW124. 2000 Watt Peak (1000W RMS) 12" VC-Series Dual 4-ohm Car Subwoofer.



www.ebay.com






I personally own a NVX subwoofer rated at 600 W RMS and I regularly put 700+watts to it. The NVX and American bass cannot be beat for the price someone else show me a subwoofer that could truly take 1000 watts rms that’s under $200.There’s probably a couple more out there but still it’s an excellent deal. 


Combine that subwoofer with these in line subsonic filters and the problem is solved


Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Rumble Subsonic Filter Crossover Pr 30Hz High Pass RCA Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Rumble Subsonic Filter Crossover Pr 30Hz High Pass RCA:Amazon:Electronics


----------



## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Kenwood instead of clarion? SMH... not unless you buy their top of the line excelon which is still only 500w rms. Seems like OP is more of a spl guy so I stand with my recommendations... lol


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lankfordcodi said:


> Kenwood instead of clarion? SMH... not unless you buy their top of the line excelon which is still only 500w rms. Seems like OP is more of a spl guy so I stand with my recommendations... lol


I went back to the shop today and he tested the sub. He said it didn’t break from overpowering it as the voice coils are fine. He said the glue must have let go and something got loose. He said I’m the 3rd person in the last few weeks to bring back the 12” clarion for the same problem. He replaced it For free with a 12” kenwood 500rms as he had no other options.


----------



## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I went back to the shop today and he tested the sub. He said it didn’t break from overpowering it as the voice coils are fine. He said the glue must have let go and something got loose. He said I’m the 3rd person in the last few weeks to bring back the 12” clarion for the same problem. He replaced it For free with a 12” kenwood 500rms as he had no other options.


it will probably be fine... IF you add the subsonic filter. PLEASE buy these and put then on the inputs of your amp. you need a subsonic filter in a ported box, it will probably blow eventually without one









Amazon.com: Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Rumble Subsonic Filter Crossover Pr 30Hz High Pass RCA : Electronics


Amazon.com: Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Rumble Subsonic Filter Crossover Pr 30Hz High Pass RCA : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I went back to the shop today and he tested the sub. He said it didn’t break from overpowering it as the voice coils are fine. He said the glue must have let go and something got loose. He said I’m the 3rd person in the last few weeks to bring back the 12” clarion for the same problem. He replaced it For free with a 12” kenwood 500rms as he had no other options.


At some point you will want to measure the port and understand how the suspension got destroyed.
Doing this before you ruin this woofer is probably better than doing it afterwards.

Or you basically need a different box or a filter to remove the lower notes.


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lankfordcodi said:


> it will probably be fine... IF you add the subsonic filter. PLEASE buy these and put then on the inputs of your amp. you need a subsonic filter in a ported box, it will probably blow eventually without one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely don’t want it blowing so I’ll buy them as recommended. I think he turned the gains down too cause it’s pretty quiet now. Putting the volume knob to max is what half of before sounded like.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

new gain settings


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Definitely don’t want it blowing so I’ll buy them as recommended. I think he turned the gains down too cause it’s pretty quiet now. Putting the volume knob to max is what half of before sounded like.


You box is incorrect... why not fix the problem rather than work around the problem?
(And also use the filters)


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> You box is incorrect... why not fix the problem rather than work around the problem?
> (And also use the filters)


Box dimensions 
19” w x 15” h x 14.5” deep 
And the ported part is 4” diameter 

thats not the correct box?


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

lankfordcodi said:


> I have noticed this as well whenever a rap song pops up on my music streaming service not all but a lot of the rap songs have an unusually high amount of bass and I have to turn my subwoofer level control down to compensate.


They use what amounts to test tones for the bass lines, synthesized pure sine waves, mostly.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Destarah said:


> He has started a 3rd thread now, asking if he should buy a Kenwood sub instead of a Clarion /sigh


Maybe he should buy a subwoofer from a company that knows what subwoofers are, not Clarion or Kenwood for sure.


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Destarah said:


> best guess is that there is no subsonic filter and the box is likely tuned upwards of 35Hz ... see ya later
> 
> I have been playing around with WinISD to see what I can do with my old Kicker CompVR 12. On paper I can reach Xmax (12.5mm) at 20Hz (in a 3cuft box tuned to 30Hz) with only 85W of power if there is no subsonic filter. Imagine the destruction if I went ahead and fired 350W at it in such a scenario (26mm of excursion according to WinISD).


I've destroyed 2 pairs of Kicker Comp 12's (one 1990 and one 1994) with 275 watts of super clean power and a sealed box, Kicker just never was that great. I loved them back in the day, but now I know better. They still haven't updated to compete with anyone.


----------



## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

dumdum said:


> What he says is correct if he mean you set the bass level knob to max, and the source to max Unclipped, that’s how I’d set it up... however it sounds like he doesn’t know what is safe and will be ok to play from and to...


I agree, but max unclipped volume is probably like 60% volume. Not 100%.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Box dimensions
> 19” w x 15” h x 14.5” deep
> And the ported part is 4” diameter
> 
> thats not the correct box?


The fact that blew the suspension (twice) means it is not right.


How long is the 4" port?
How does it model?


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> The fact that blew the suspension (twice) means it is not right.
> 
> 
> How long is the 4" port?
> How does it model?


the first time voice coils blew now the suspension I guess 
It’s 12” long and it’s round


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> the first time voice coils blew now the suspension I guess
> It’s 12” long and it’s round


I would model it and determine from that How to proceed.


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> I would model it and determine from that How to proceed.


What does it mean to “model it”?


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

WinISD

And maybe this:





Port Length Calculator


Port length Calculator for sub woofer box design.



www.mobileinformationlabs.com


----------



## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

What if the box builder uses a glue or whatever that releases a solvent that is weakening the surround/spider?

That’s it. That’s all I got. Im done.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Looks like it is tuned to ~38-Hz.


----------



## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Holmz said:


> Looks like it is tuned to ~38-Hz.


So anything below about 30-32hz will stress it, so it’s likely music choice with extra low rap music


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

One more reason to always have a SSF on any amp powering a ported box. OP might be Ok with this new 500watt sub, depending on what the xmax of the driver is.


----------



## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

What do you guys think if I got 2 x 12” 300w rms JLs instead? Good or bad idea?


----------



## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Pretty much all JLs are a good buy.

My first setup was in a jaguar xj6 with a firewall behind the back seats. The 2 12w0's were not a let down at all.

Granted that was back in 2001 things could have changed since then.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> What do you guys think if I got 2 x 12” 300w rms JLs instead? Good or bad idea?


Thats fine, but if you are still going to be using a ported box, you need to address the lack of SSF on your current amplifier.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> Thats fine, but if you are still going to be using a ported box, you need to address the lack of SSF on your current amplifier.


I’ll buy those filters too, but do you think the JLs are gonna be a good amount of bass? A better setup then 1 500w sub?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

How many of the SSFs do i need? Two for each channel or just for the sub channel?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> How many of the SSFs do i need? Two for each channel or just for the sub channel?


Ideally you want an amp that has a ssf built into to, so you can adjust it depending on the set up. Did the dealer sell you a ported box and an amp with no ssf? But if you want to buy something then you need a pair of F-mods to put on the RCA cable going into the amp. 









Amazon.com: Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Rumble Subsonic Filter Crossover Pr 30Hz High Pass RCA : Electronics


Amazon.com: Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Rumble Subsonic Filter Crossover Pr 30Hz High Pass RCA : Electronics



www.amazon.com


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> Ideally you want an amp that has a ssf built into to, so you can adjust it depending on the set up. Did the dealer sell you a ported box and an amp with no ssf? But if you want to buy something then you need a pair of F-mods to put on the RCA cable going into the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah all the equipment I got he recommended as a setup. I guess he didn’t factor in the SSPs. My amp has 6 rcas total going into it. Do I need the filters for channels A and B also or just for the Sub channel?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Yeah all the equipment I got he recommended as a setup. I guess he didn’t factor in the SSPs. My amp has 6 rcas total going into it. Do I need the filters for channels A and B also or just for the Sub channel?


Just the sub channel. I would ask for a replacement amp that does has a SSF built in if i were you. Its only been a few weeks.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Yeah all the equipment I got he recommended as a setup. I guess he didn’t factor in the SSPs. My amp has 6 rcas total going into it. Do I need the filters for channels A and B also or just for the Sub channel?


The filters aren’t a separate thing, they come built into an amp in 99.9% of cases


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

dumdum said:


> The filters aren’t a separate thing, they come built into an amp in 99.9% of cases


Oh, I didn’t know. I guess I’ll ask him to change it for a different amp with the filters built in


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

what’s a good amp you guys would recommend?


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## lingling1337 (Oct 14, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> what’s a good amp you guys would recommend?


One without a gain knob so you quit ****ing up your subs.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

lingling1337 said:


> One without a gain knob so you quit ****ing up your subs.


great 35th post...stop being a dirtbag for no reason. He's trying to learn here and get help.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Some of you are being complete dicks! It's been well established, multiple times, that OP is not an experienced enthusiast, like many of us, he paid a professional to install the system, was not given specific instructions regarding the limitations of his system, and yet you all still want to point fingers at him for screwing things up. 

Stop being dicks.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

This is not a website for trolls.

Go ahead act a fool, you'll wind up like that one infamous guy user2.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

i just tend to ignore people like that, theyre not worth my time. 

would the setup with 2x 12" JLs 300w be better then the single kenwood 500W that i currently have? adding the SSFs


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> i just tend to ignore people like that, theyre not worth my time.
> 
> would the setup with 2x 12" JLs 300w be better then the single kenwood 500W that i currently have? adding the SSFs


Yes, it would. But that means a new box and giving up more space in your trunk. But i think you would be happier.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

They shouldn't disappoint


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## lingling1337 (Oct 14, 2019)

Just can't believe we're 9 pages deep in questions that could be answered by search, after the guy already made a fool of himself and had to delete his previous thread about being "ripped off" by his installer.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lingling1337 said:


> Just can't believe we're 9 pages deep in questions that could be answered by search, after the guy already made a fool of himself and had to delete his previous thread about being "ripped off" by his installer.


Don’t believe I made a fool of myself but asking questions.. yes I’ll admit the title of the other thread wasn’t the most appropriate, but the only reason I deleted the thread was because I didn’t feel like dealing with people such as yourself. Nobody asked you to comment on this thread. I really appreciate the people that were kind enough to answer my questions and educate me as best as they could. If you’re really unhappy with the content here then you’re welcome to continue scrolling to a different page. No ones forcing you to read..


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

I think we found your installer ^


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

DR3W5K1 said:


> I think we found your installer ^


Haha ya right 😂, nah the installer is actually a really nice guy, didn’t have to argue with him even for a second. He’s really willing to help, and yesterday when I brought the sub back he said it wasn’t my fault it was a manufacturer defect. It was the 3rd clarion sub brought back in the last month for the same reason. He gave me a new kenwood and tuned the amp as well.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Gotta love good hearted people


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## lingling1337 (Oct 14, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> the only reason I deleted the thread was because I didn’t feel like dealing with people such as yourself. Nobody asked you to comment on this thread.


It's a discussion forum, sorry if you don't like everything that's posted. If you're running into so many "people like myself" maybe consider that the problem lies with you.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

lingling1337 said:


> It's a discussion forum, sorry if you don't like everything that's posted. If you're running into so many "people like myself" maybe consider that the problem lies with you.


He's fine, and this is his tread, so in this case the problem lies with you. Contribute something helpful or start your own thread.


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## lingling1337 (Oct 14, 2019)

miniSQ said:


> He's fine, and this is his tread, so in this case the problem lies with you. Contribute something helpful or start your own thread.


If it's his thread, he should just set it so that I can't reply then. Oh wait...


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

lingling1337 said:


> If it's his thread, he should just set it so that I can't reply then. Oh wait...


Booo!


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

I have no idea how this made it to 9 pages...but I will contribute something useful.
Dude...make sure you walk away from this with the knowledge that a 'professional install' doesn't mean a thing. If you turn the volume up too high, mess with gains, mess with EQ, feed the amp a different voltage - mate there are so many variables that you would think are all covered in a 'professional install' but they aren't! (install guys aren't psychics...) - then absolutely hell yes. You can blow any speaker in seconds.
I personally looooove the smell of a ****ty little subs voice coil(s) first thing in the morning...


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> What do you guys think if I got 2 x 12” 300w rms JLs instead? Good or bad idea?





Wiktorrrr said:


> what’s a good amp you guys would recommend?


^These questions^ may seem reasonable, but I think you would be better off figuring out how low of frequency you want it to play first.

The secondly get the right sub and box for that.

And lastly the amplifier.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

lingling1337 said:


> One without a gain knob so you quit ****ing up your subs.


You and others still harp on about the gain knob,.. but it appears like it could be an over excursion issue?

So it looks like your solution is obliquely addressing the problem, rather than directly solving the problem with a lower tuned port, and/or a SS-filter.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> ^These questions^ may seem reasonable, but I think you would be better off figuring out how low of frequency you want it to play first.
> 
> The secondly get the right sub and box for that.
> 
> And lastly the amplifier.


hmm okay makes sense. i asked to return the amp but he said he cant take it since its already been used so ill have to work the the one i have. I mean its plenty power i just have to get the SSF for it i guess. The JL sub im taking about is the Jl Audio 12W0V3-4. Yesterday he recommened two of those in ported box. i think ill custom build the box tho as per JL specs for this sub.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Wiktorrrr said:


> hmm okay makes sense. i asked to return the amp but he said he cant take it since its already been used so ill have to work the the one i have. I mean its plenty power i just have to get the SSF for it i guess. The JL sub im taking about is the Jl Audio 12W0V3-4. Yesterday he recommened two of those in ported box. i think ill custom build the box tho as per JL specs for this sub.


Up specs may not be any good for your musical taste though

will the amp run two ohms ok?

Just a though... You are buying subs without knowing what you’re looking at, why not start a new thread with musical taste listed and then get suggestions of subs to suit that than doing what you did in the first place and buying blindly and then getting stuck with amps and subs that aren’t really what you wanted...
The two jls will likely be very similar to the kenwood, I would say you need to stop buying stuff and have a think what you actually want the sub/amp to do, you might be just as well getting a new box made for the kenwood as a trial been as you have it, a slot ported box for a twelve is not hard to make and will be more suited if designed well


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

dumdum said:


> ...
> ..., I would say you need to stop buying stuff and have a think what you actually want the sub/amp to do, you might be just as well getting a new box made for the kenwood as a trial been as you have it, a slot ported box for a twelve is not hard to make and will be more suited if designed well


Or plug the port in the current box and whack a PR in the back and weight it up for ~28-Hz 

It is really a good time to slow down and doing it all right in one slow fell swoop.


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## Gentlegiant9400 (Aug 8, 2020)

sounds to me like you want really loud bass. To get that you need to move up to stronger subs i.e. memphis mojo's, sundown etc. If a sub is distorting when you are listening to it and you keep pushing it she is gonna blow sooner or later, in your case sooner. Whenever I was tuning my amps I would turn the music as loud as I would listen to it then go back and sit directly behind the subs if they were distorting I would adjust the amp down a little. Always did my own installs and never blew a sub. If its a money thing then wait and buy a pair of upper line subs used. You gotta pay to play my man there's no way around it.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

makes sense, i definitelly dont want to be blindly buying things. I never knew there was so much to it. Thats what im thinking Ill return the sub and box tomorrow. Ill have to keep the amp I currently have as he refused to take it back after two weeks. Think the amp will suit my needs or am i better off trying to sell it on ebay or something?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> makes sense, i definitelly dont want to be blindly buying things. I never knew there was so much to it. Thats what im thinking Ill return the sub and box tomorrow. Ill have to keep the amp I currently have as he refused to take it back after two weeks. Think the amp will suit my needs or am i better off trying to sell it on ebay or something?


How can you know about the amp before you figure out which sub and box?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> How can you know about the amp before you figure out which sub and box?


I would love to return the amp but the store owner refused to take it back, so ill have to base my choice of sub on the amp. it can do 600W rms at 2ohms, you dont think that will be good enough? If not ill have to sell it on ebay or something.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

dumdum said:


> Up specs may not be any good for your musical taste though
> 
> will the amp run two ohms ok?


Yeah definitelly gonna take a step back before i make any more purchases. The amp I have is a Kenwood Excelon Xr901-5 for the sub channel its rated at 600W RMS at 2 ohms. is that good?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

the design of the box impacts how the bass sounds?


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## Gentlegiant9400 (Aug 8, 2020)

Well for starters the memphis mojos are 1,000 rms subs so that amp would not cut it. I pushed a set of memphis m4 12s with a memphis 1,000 watt amp and I had incredible deep bass. More bass then I ever used. For me personally I would rather have a powerful sub and amp then not push em hard all the time vs mediocre amp/subs and push them too hard. If money is an issue keep your eyes on market place, classifieds, mercari and letgo for good deals on quality products. Every once in a while you will come across and incredible deal but patience is the key.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I would love to return the amp but the store owner refused to take it back, so ill have to base my choice of sub on the amp. it can do 600W rms at 2ohms, you dont think that will be good enough? If not ill have to sell it on ebay or something.


600 watts at 2 ohms is plenty for those two subs. But looking at the specs it says:

sealed box volume: 1.375 cubic feet
ported box volume: 1.75 cubic feet
so if you stay ported you are going to need a huge box for them. There might be better choices for you. What is your plan for a box for any new subs you decide on?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> the design of the box impacts how the bass sounds?


It does yes. And if you keep that amp, you might want to build a sealed box, and chose 2 12's that sound great in a sealed box. You will lose a little output in the low end, but with 2 12's you shouldn't have any trouble getting loud enough with a sealed box.

Or you can buy a second amp just for the sub that has a ssf built in. Class d mono power is cheap!!!


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> 600 watts at 2 ohms is plenty for those two subs. But looking at the specs it says:
> 
> sealed box volume: 1.375 cubic feet
> ported box volume: 1.75 cubic feet
> so if you stay ported you are going to need a huge box for them. There might be better choices for you. What is your plan for a box for any new subs you decide on?


I’m thinking I will custom build a box for any subs I buy because I don’t want to run to any issues. As for the subs I haven’t decided on what to get just yet. If I stay with the current amp, what would you advise me to do for the sub? If I buy the SSF for it can I use a ported box?


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Holmz said:


> Looks like it is tuned to ~38-Hz.


Hmm, the harrison in line rca filters come in 30hz high pass 12/db, that should be perfect. Or as perfect as you can get they dont make a 40hz one...

Cant believe his amp does not have the subsonic already...


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> the design of the box impacts how the bass sounds?



You can get dirt cheap mono class d amplifiers if you need more power.... but you can always just get a couple jl subs in a pre fabbed box. i would recommenced sealed or using the subsonic in line filters...

Also, dont buy a box and put the subs in it. pre loaded enclosures from the manufacturer are designed to work with those subs. either that or build your own box....

Here's two JL's 600 watts rms two ohms.






JL Audio CP212-W0v3 at Onlinecarstereo.com


Shop Lowest Price on: JL Audio CP212-W0v3 Enclosed Car Subwoofers. W0v3 12 600W RMS (1200W Peak Power Handling) Subwoofers with lot-ported enclosure




www.onlinecarstereo.com


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lankfordcodi said:


> You can get dirt cheap mono class d amplifiers if you need more power.... but you can always just get a couple jl subs in a pre fabbed box. i would recommenced sealed or using the subsonic in line filters...
> 
> Also, dont buy a box and put the subs in it. pre loaded enclosures from the manufacturer are designed to work with those subs. either that or build your own box....
> 
> ...


That looks awesome, thanks for sending the link. If i got those subs can i expect a descent amount of bass?


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

A decent amount is a very relative term. That's going to have more bass than my buddies had in college when we thought we had systems that slammed. It won't have much bass compared to systems we built later on that cost a lot more and had a lot more power. 

Whatever you do, maybe sure you put a 1A fuse in line with your subs, 0.5A if you can find a fuse for it. Your cranking of the volume to 100% is probably not going to end well for any subs you buy.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

FAUEE said:


> A decent amount is a very relative term. That's going to have more bass than my buddies had in college when we thought we had systems that slammed. It won't have much bass compared to systems we built later on that cost a lot more and had a lot more power.
> 
> Whatever you do, maybe sure you put a 1A fuse in line with your subs, 0.5A if you can find a fuse for it. Your cranking of the volume to 100% is probably not going to end well for any subs you buy.


A fuse between the amp and the sub? If i was to buy an aftermarket head unit would i get more volume in total? It just doesnt sound very loud right now, meaning i can hear myself talk when volume is at 40/45.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Alot more bass than what you have. Keep in mind, if you want to just get loud AF, theres alot of budget options to get loud so this is my reccomendations

--option one

keep your amp and buy a loaded dual 12" enclosure. i would probably get something sealed like this dual jbl enclosure since your amp does not have a subsonic filter ($230)









JBL STAGE 1220B | 1000W Dual 12" Subwoofer Enclosure


JBL STAGE 1220B • 1000W Max 500W RMS 12" Stage Series Dual 2 Ohm Car Subwoofer Enclosure • 1000 Watts Max • 500 Watts RMS • Black Carpeted Enclosure • Compact Lightweight Design • Strong Woofer Construction with Powerful Bass




www.sonicelectronix.com





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Option two (people will probably give me crap for this but when it comes to budget brands ive personally used skar audio amps and subs with only one failure due to shipping damage and it was promtly replaced. dont get me wrong, if you can swing it, you can get a pioneer 1200 watt monoblock for $250 ish but ive beat the hell out of my skar amps at 1ohm before i was fortunate enough to be able to afford rockford fosgate amplifiers and it was a excellent experience, the best ive ever had in regards to "budget brands"

get a big monoblock that also has a subsonic filter
$170 for a 1200 watt rms @1ohm amplifier 








RP-1200.1D | 1,200 Watt Class D Monoblock Car Amplifier


Skar Audio's RP-1200.1D monoblock Class D amplifier is the definition of power and reliability when it comes to monoblock amplifiers. Capable of powering a pair of 600 watt subwoofers with ease and coming in at a great price point, the RP-1200.1D is the perfect daily driver amplifier.



www.skaraudio.com





$300 for a dual 12" loaded enclosure









Dual 12" 2,400 Watt SDR Series Loaded Vented Subwoofer Enclosure


Skar Audio introduces the SDR-2X12D4 dual 12-inch loaded vented subwoofer enclosure to cater to the audiophile who wants a competition grade system in their vehicle without all of the headache involved with designing it from the ground up. This package features two SDR-12 D4 subwoofers and has a...




www.skaraudio.com





That amp has double the power and a subsonic filter. one of the cheapest per watt amps thats not like a hifonics POS


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

Please let's just slow this down for pity sake ... if your amplifier doesn't have a built-in subsonic filter (SSF mentioned earlier) then don't bother trying to use a ported box. Get the pair of JL 12's, put them in a sealed box with a net volume of 2.3 cuft and see how you like it. I am confident that you will be REALLY happy with the results. WinISD models 100dB @ 20Hz climbing to 116dB @ 55Hz.
Once you put that into your car that will translate to a whole lot of bass, and no blowing up subs.

Why do so many people insist on replacing gear instead of just using what is already installed to the best of it's ability? If a subsonic filter is not available, use a sealed box sized to control excursion ... this isn't a competition level install, he just wants to listen to Drake (grunt) without destroying his sub.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

It sounds like you're looking for something to vibrate your mirrors off and not necessarily as concerned about how flat the response might measure on a RTA . I would recommend just doing it with a bit of overkill instead of buying something else that just does not quite do it for you.... There are other options as well, I will post a link to the pioneer i was talking about in just a sec but here's a package deal from of the last two items i posted where you get a free all copper install kit if you buy that loaded enclosure and amp, kind of cool. 









Dual 12" 2,400 Watt SDR Series Complete Subwoofer Package with Vented Enclosure and Amplifier


Skar Audio designed this dual 12" SDR series 2,400 watt loaded subwoofer package to provide an all-in-one solution to add powerful bass to your vehicle. We also include the perfect amplifier in this package to power your new subwoofer with the Skar Audio RP-1200.1D.




www.skaraudio.com





The pioneers are all sold out at the moment but if you want a slight upgrade in quality over the skar amp heres a jbl that does 1000 watts (probably 1200) at 2 ohm for $208


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

He already HAS an amp ... he doesn't need another amp, just the right sub(s) and enclosure for the amp he already OWNS ... good grief


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Destarah said:


> He already HAS an amp ... he doesn't need another amp, just the right sub(s) and enclosure for the amp he already OWNS ... good grief





Destarah said:


> He already HAS an amp ... he doesn't need another amp, just the right sub(s) and enclosure for the amp he already OWNS ... good grief


If you actually read the previous posts you would realize we've been telling him that for days. 

I'm the one that recommended first that he buy the in line subsonic filters. 

He seems to be dead set on getting significantly more bass than what he has.

Also, by switching to a sealed enclosure it will not be as loud as a vented enclosure with the same amount of power, you will need more power to drive the subs compared to a similar ported enclosure.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

An aftermarket head unit won't give you more volume. More power, more sensitive speakers, and better designed boxes will. All those come with a cost of either money, or time and knowledge, and most likely space.

You need to step back, decide what your priority ranking is between volume, space lost, and cost. Then you need to set realistic goals for your volume level, and budget. Without that, you'll likely never be satisfied. Hell, even with it you might not be if you're not willing to put the kind of money and space it takes to get truly massive bass that it sounds like you want.

My best guess from reading your posts is what you really want is a 1-2k rms sub setup, likely 12s or 15s, probably. More of an SPL setup than what most guys on here would want.


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## Selkec (Nov 18, 2018)

lankfordcodi said:


> You can get dirt cheap mono class d amplifiers if you need more power.... but you can always just get a couple jl subs in a pre fabbed box. i would recommenced sealed or using the subsonic in line filters...
> 
> Also, dont buy a box and put the subs in it. pre loaded enclosures from the manufacturer are designed to work with those subs. either that or build your own box....
> 
> ...


If you want windshield flexing bass this dual 12” skar evl ported box is really nice! I had this box before I switched to b2 audio rage 12” and the skars in that box were just as loud as my B2 rage subs. Skar is way underrated when it comes to their subs. And their boxes are not the typical prefab box. They have crazy internal bracing that the magnet presses into and they also use inserts for the screws. There isn’t any loaded enclosure that even close to these! Dual 12" 5,000 Watt EVL Series Loaded Vented Subwoofer Enclosure


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

I thought I can do a ported enclosure as long as I buy those subsonic filers, no? I’m definitely looking for a good amount of bass. First step tomorrow is returning the kenwood sub and box and going from there I guess. Thanks for all the good suggestions and advice.


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

I just marvel at some of the things being said in this thread, and I have read every single post ... here are the highlights (as I see it)
1) The OP posted a picture of the ported box that he has, and frankly it looks like a piece of crap. Best guesses using the measurements provided are that it is 1.9 cuft net internal volume and tuned around 38Hz.
2) The wrong ported box is not going to provide more bass than the right sealed box. This narrow view of ported = higher output than sealed is a shame. Having a sub peak 6dB higher somewhere north of 40Hz is not necessarily a good thing.
3) He is now in the market for a sub/subs to replace the Clarion that blew up.
4) He owns an amplifier with 600W of power available @ 2 ohm for the sub/subs and no Subsonic filter.
5) He has already stated that the installer can get him into a pair of JL 12W0-4 ... putting those in a sealed 2.3 cuft box is going to give him a staggering amount of bass and stay below Xmax right down into the basement. Too many people seem to think that you need a kilowatt of power to make some noise and it's just not true.
6) this thread has devovled into a freaking flea market ... 

I really wish people would get educated about ported vs sealed instead of constantly spouting that sealed won't be loud enough. It's BS pure and simple. I have a single 10TW3 in a 1cuft sealed box on 300W and it plays low and loud.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

FAUEE said:


> An aftermarket head unit won't give you more volume. More power, more sensitive speakers, and better designed boxes will. All those come with a cost of either money, or time and knowledge, and most likely space.
> 
> You need to step back, decide what your priority ranking is between volume, space lost, and cost. Then you need to set realistic goals for your volume level, and budget. Without that, you'll likely never be satisfied. Hell, even with it you might not be if you're not willing to put the kind of money and space it takes to get truly massive bass that it sounds like you want.
> 
> My best guess from reading your posts is what you really want is a 1-2k rms sub setup, likely 12s or 15s, probably. More of an SPL setup than what most guys on here would want.


This really sums it up perfectly, well put 



Wiktorrrr said:


> I thought I can do a ported enclosure as long as I buy those subsonic filers, no? I’m definitely looking for a good amount of bass. First step tomorrow is returning the kenwood sub and box and going from there I guess. Thanks for all the good suggestions and advice.


You can, in fact i would argue its destructive to run a ported box without a subsonic filter. Thats the thing that bothers me about your installer refusing to take back your amp when he sold you a ported box and an amp with no subsonic filter.... something about that does not sit right with me....

But... even with this, if you go and buy two 12's in a vented box with only a 600 watt rms rating and add a subsonic filter.... will it be enough to satisfy what you want? Probably not from listening to what youre going for.... especially if your amp is 600 watts rms, once you set it safley below its clipping point, you will be getting around 500 watts... you dont want to run your amp up against the red line all the time, and with different bass levels across so many different genres of music... you will either not be getting the amount of bass you want or alternativley clipping the **** out of your amplifier and damaging it because its not putting out the power you want.

I personally went through 3 different amplifiers with the same one 12" subwoofer 

First i had a 450 watt rms amplifier - it was ok but i craved just a bit more and my sub was 600 watts rms so i knew i had some more power handling headroom to play with

Second i had a 600 watt rms amplifier, i thought it would be perfect.... it wasnt, in fact it was almost exactly the same as the 450 watt amplifier.. 

Third amplifier 1000 watts rms on the same 600 watts rms sub. - Excellent, exactly what i wanted, if i want i can make **** shake, but if i dont want to i can turn down the bass knob and have a reasonable not too quiet, not too loud bass experience. Now this might not be the solution for you as its possible to blow the sub in a heartbeat if youre not careful/aware of what your subs limitations are with extra headroom on your amp

Considering you were cranking your tunes to the MAX like literally to 100% and blew multiple subs doing this leads me to believe you are craving wayyyyy more headroom than what your setup has to offer. I would highly reccomend staying with a PORTED enclosure since youre going for maximum SPL. Thing is, you need a subsonic filter with ported.

So you can buy a dual 12" ported enclosure... I would highly reccomend getting one that can take at least 1000 watts rms or more

Try using your current amplifier, you wont be getting the full potential of the subs if you buy subs with higher power handling capabilities than your amp can provide but as long as you use the inline rca 30hz filters you should be OK. And after that, if your amp is not doing it for you at least you will have subs that are future proof and can handle some extra power.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Destarah said:


> I just marvel at some of the things being said in this thread, and I have read every single post ... here are the highlights (as I see it)
> 1) The OP posted a picture of the ported box that he has, and frankly it looks like a piece of crap. Best guesses using the measurements provided are that it is 1.9 cuft net internal volume and tuned around 38Hz.
> 2) The wrong ported box is not going to provide more bass than the right sealed box. This narrow view of ported = higher output than sealed is a shame. Having a sub peak 6dB higher somewhere north of 40Hz is not necessarily a good thing.
> 3) He is now in the market for a sub/subs to replace the Clarion that blew up.
> ...



It will be more bass than he has, but the big question is.... will it be enough to satisfy what he is seeking? I feel that you don't respect other peoples opinions. I respect your opinion and agree with your statement that it will create more bass than he has but i think it would be a shame if he bought two more subs and a custom enclosure and it still was not as loud as he wants. 

The fact remains that those subs are pretty small and a sealed enclosure does not produce as much output per watt as a ported enclosure. even if its only a few db, its a fact.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I would love to return the amp but the store owner refused to take it back, so ill have to base my choice of sub on the amp. it can do 600W rms at 2ohms, you dont think that will be good enough? If not ill have to sell it on ebay or something.


I thought I was clear...


Figure out the sub and the box.
Get the sub and the box.
See how it sounds with the amp.
If at that point you "need" a new amp, then sell that current amp.

If it sounds good keep it.
If you sell that current amp now on eBay, you will take a huge loss
so it is probably better to wait and know.

Since the current amp is enough to destroy the sub in the current box, it is a more powerful amp than you need with the current setup.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Destarah said:


> 4) He owns an amplifier with 600W of power available @ 2 ohm for the sub/subs and no Subsonic filter.
> 5) He has already stated that the installer can get him into a pair of JL 12W0-4 ... putting those in a sealed 2.3 cuft box is going to give him a staggering amount of bass and stay below Xmax right down into the basement. Too many people seem to think that you need a kilowatt of power to make some noise and it's just not true.
> 6) this thread has devovled into a freaking flea market ...
> 
> I really wish people would get educated about ported vs sealed instead of constantly spouting that sealed won't be loud enough. It's BS pure and simple. I have a single 10TW3 in a 1cuft sealed box on 300W and it plays low and loud.





Destarah said:


> 3) He is now in the market for a sub/subs to replace the Clarion that blew up.
> 4) He owns an amplifier with 600W of power available @ 2 ohm for the sub/subs and no Subsonic filter.
> 5) He has already stated that the installer can get him into a pair of JL 12W0-4 ... putting those in a sealed 2.3 cuft box is going to give him a staggering amount of bass and stay below Xmax right down into the basement. Too many people seem to think that you need a kilowatt of power to make some noise and it's just not true.


I agree the sealed subs are going to be safer for the OP unless he is going to run a SS or the Fmods. I personally have never used a ported box and have always been more than satisfied with my sealed or 4th order boxes. I know this can bring a separate discussion on ported vs. sealed, so not trying to open a can of worms. I think the one thing that still needs to be done is have the OP sit with the installer after everything all equipment is in and understand the safe zone when playing music. Even moving to a sealed box, I dont think playing at 50 on the head unit is going to be good long term. If used incorrectly, you can break anything


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

I’ll try to exchange the amp for a small one just for the speakers and a mono for the sub. I’ll make the case that it doesn’t have a SSF and it was sold on a ported box, I’ll see how that goes. Might or might now be stuck with it, I’ll see after work and go from there.


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

@lankfordcodi - my point was that a lot of replies in this thread simply ignore the original issue and presume that 600W into a sub in a sealed box can't be loud enough, it's bogus. It is not my intention to disrespect other people's opinions, I believe I am calling people out who are being inaccurate. For example, I thought I was pretty clear with point 2) ... and yet you finished up by repeating


lankfordcodi said:


> a sealed enclosure does not produce as much output per watt as a ported enclosure. even if its only a few db, its a fact.


That statement is false. A more correct statement would be "a sealed enclosure does not produce as much output per watt as a ported enclosure *near the tuning frequency*. even if its only a few db, its a fact." The reason I take such issue with this Ported=louder crap is that the total opposite is true BELOW the tuning frequency, which is actually what this entire thread is about. Ported enclosure output drops off steeply below the tuning frequency, and excursion increases rapidly at the same time. IF you build a big enough ported box and tune it low enough that it will outperform the same drivers in a sealed box at low frequencies, the power handling will be drastically reduced and the sealed will then be louder at higher frequencies. It's not nearly as simple as people want it to be.

@Wiktorrrr - I still feel strongly that the ported enclosure you were sold is not going to perform well for you, you would be better off with the right size sealed enclosure and just use the amp you have. Your call of course, but it's a whole lot easier to leave the amp alone and use a sealed box than continue trying to make that ported box work.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Holy crap, i have been doing this for over 40 years and have a pretty good grasp of most things car audio related. But this thread has so many people weighing in on so many different things that my head is spinning. I can't imagine what the OP is going thru trying to decipher everyones opinions. Go easy on him guys. All he is looking for is a sub box that will not blow up and will give him strong bass.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

$5.00 a pop


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

So i just called the store and owner said I don’t need SSF for a ported box so I’m just confused now. Also he’ll take back the sub and box I have and do an exchange on the amp if I want. I suggested doing a small amp just for the speakers and a mono for the sub? What do you guys think?


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Honestly it's amazing that this installer is still just being so kind and nice to you. I would probably get all of my service done there for the rest of my life because that guy is taking care of you in a way that most people won't.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> So i just called the store and owner said I don’t need SSF for a ported box so I’m just confused now. Also he’ll take back the sub and box I have and do an exchange on the amp if I want. I suggested doing a small amp just for the speakers and a mono for the sub? What do you guys think?


He's wrong about needing a SSF. Thats a bit of a red flag, but he is working with you on this so thats good. My advice is to not say to him something like "hey everyone at DIYMA is saying i need an SSF." Its impossible for us to advise you on what to trade into because we don't know what he has available.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> So i just called the store and owner said I don’t need SSF for a ported box so I’m just confused now. Also he’ll take back the sub and box I have and do an exchange on the amp if I want. I suggested doing a small amp just for the speakers and a mono for the sub? What do you guys think?



It is absolutely amazing that he is willing to work with you. If he will at least give you store credit I would do some research on replacement options that he is offering to you.

It is alarming that he says you do not need a subsonic filter...if it’s ported you absolutely do and he is either lying because he knows he screwed up or is not that experienced...


Anyways I would recommend asking for some model #s he has that he can put in , also ask if the planned enclosure is sealed, ported, it’s cubic airspace etc, and then do some research before you go back so you know exactly why you want and don’t just make random guesses.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

I’m definitely gonna push for an amp with a SSF, I’ll give him the amp back and get store credit for it, and just return the sub and box. I’ll ask what he has to offer and I’ll update, so I can get some help from you guys on what the best option is if that’s cool?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Yep.

I will add that you need a ssf with a ported box. That owner is awesome and out of pure respect for his willingness to help I would pick gear from him if only for this one install. But he is definitely wrong on that topic. Like mentioned already don't tell him "I need this because the internet told me" . Even if we're all correct it never sits well with retailers. Get your options, share them, and then decide.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

just left the shop
New amp choices
Kenwood xr1001-1 1000w rms + kenwood x302-4 for my speakers.
or
I stay with the Current kenwood xr901-5

subs
JL CP212
2x American bass xd12
2x Sony xs121
2x kicker compr
2x JL 12W0V3-4

he’ll only give me store credit, no refund so I have to spend the money with him. What do you guys think of these choices? For the box I think I’ll have to get somwhere else Cause he only has 1 type of12” single or dual


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I would go the two Kenwood's and the American Bass. 

Two amps cost more to give you what you need but the AB 12's save a little over the JL's but don't sacrifice any output to do it.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Those American bass are decent subs. Two of those in the proper enclosure with 1000 watts pushing them will hit hard. I would recommend modeling different enclosures to see what works best for them


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Theslaking said:


> I would go the two Kenwood's and the American Bass.
> 
> Two amps cost more to give you what you need but the AB 12's save a little over the JL's but don't sacrifice any output to do it.



I agree


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Wiktorrrr said:


> the design of the box impacts how the bass sounds?


Yes, it can emphasise lows, or upper bass, or a balance of the two, also power handling,


lankfordcodi said:


> I agree


Me too 👍🏼


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lankfordcodi said:


> I agree





Theslaking said:


> I would go the two Kenwood's and the American Bass.
> 
> Two amps cost more to give you what you need but the AB 12's save a little over the JL's but don't sacrifice any output to do it.


That’s what I was thinking too, I checked and the mono has a SSF.
How much of a difference do rear speakers make? Because that 4 channel kenwood I listed would be 75w x 4. In the front I have 80w components. Should I just get a smaller 4 channel and bridge it to get just enough to power the fronts or future proof myself with the rears. I’ve heard rear speakers don’t make much difference tho. Opinions?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Wiktorrrr said:


> That’s what I was thinking too, I checked and the mono has a SSF.
> How much of a difference do rear speakers make? Because that 4 channel kenwood I listed would be 75w x 4. In the front I have 80w components. Should I just get a smaller 4 channel and bridge it to get just enough to power the fronts or future proof myself with the rears. I’ve heard rear speakers don’t make much difference tho. Opinions?


The 4 channel will be fine run as a 4 channel


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> That’s what I was thinking too, I checked and the mono has a SSF.
> How much of a difference do rear speakers make? Because that 4 channel kenwood I listed would be 75w x 4. In the front I have 80w components. Should I just get a smaller 4 channel and bridge it to get just enough to power the fronts or future proof myself with the rears. I’ve heard rear speakers don’t make much difference tho. Opinions?


Everyone seems to be agreeing with this...


Theslaking said:


> I would go *the two Kenwood's* and the American Bass.
> 
> Two amps cost more to give you what you need but the AB 12's save a little over the JL's but don't sacrifice any output to do it.


What does "components in the front" mean?
Are they using passive crossover? And two channels?
And how many amp channels?

It may be better to get the subwoofer working first, before going hog wild elsewhere?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> Everyone seems to be agreeing with this...
> 
> 
> What does "components in the front" mean?
> ...





Holmz said:


> Everyone seems to be agreeing with this...
> 
> 
> What does "components in the front" mean?
> ...


I mean I also changed factory speakers to a set of component speakers in the front 80w rms. That’s what the second amp would be for to power those. Is it worth getting an amp that can power both front and back or just bridge a small amp to run the front speakers?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I mean I also changed factory speakers to a set of component speakers in the front 80w rms. That’s what the second amp would be for to power those. Is it worth getting an amp that can power both front and back or just bridge a small amp to run the front speakers?



What do you mean by component speakers?
Are they single speaker or a few on a passive crossover?
how many individual speakers were installed in the front?
What is powering the front now?
How did those front speakers sound? And how many watts do they have available?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Holmz said:


> What do you mean by component speakers?
> Are they single speaker or a few on a passive crossover?
> how many individual speakers were installed in the front?
> What is powering the front now?
> How did those front speakers sound? And how many watts do they have available?


Components are generally a mid and tweeter with a passive... which rock have you been under to not know this? 🙈🙈🙈🙈😂


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

dumdum said:


> Components are generally a mid and tweeter with a passive... which rock have you been under to not know this? 🙈🙈🙈🙈😂


Well I want to make that I am understanding the OP.
Which is why I asked again.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about power to your rears. 10w will make them louder than they probably should be.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

The front components are a tweeter mid and a crossover. Right now they’re being powered by the 5 channel amp. They are 80w rms.


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Definitely don’t want it blowing so I’ll buy them as recommended. I think he turned the gains down too cause it’s pretty quiet now. Putting the volume knob to max is what half of before sounded like.


#Sigh


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> The front components are a tweeter mid and a crossover. Right now they’re being powered by the 5 channel amp. They are 80w rms.


And you had two rear speakers on channels 3 and 4 and the sub on channel 5?
Or
Does that cross over have biwire with the ability for two channels to be fed in?

In the later case I would a 4 channel without bridging, or a 6 channel and bridge the woofers.
But really 80w should be plenty... depending on how loud it is.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> And you had two rear speakers on channels 3 and 4 and the sub on channel 5?
> Or
> Does that cross over have biwire with the ability for two channels to be fed in?
> 
> ...


No the two rear speakers are running from the factory head unit and just the fronts are bridged on the 5 channel amp I have. For now I’m just gonna focus on building the subs and leave speakers for another project. I’ll run them all from the Factory head unit like before.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> just left the shop
> New amp choices
> Kenwood xr1001-1 1000w rms + kenwood x302-4 for my speakers.
> or
> ...


what ever sub you select, see if you can get a box design specific to the sub. By your statement, it sounds like he is going to put you in some kind of prefab box. Some prefabs are better than others, but if you can get a correct box build for the sub you select, that would be much better. If you can get specs, usually we have one or two members that will model something up for you and just get that built.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Just use a sealed box, it's better anyway... Any sub will work well enough in a 1cu sealed box, don't think too hard about this. I bet your guy can sell you a box just like this one:









Amazon.com: Atrend BBox E12D Dual 12" Sealed Carpeted Subwoofer Enclosure : Electronics


Amazon.com: Atrend BBox E12D Dual 12" Sealed Carpeted Subwoofer Enclosure : Electronics



www.amazon.com






The rest of it doesn't matter. Pick the prettiest sub, you have to look at it every time you open your trunk.

You can save a buck by grabbing the preloaded cp212, but I'd pay the extra 100 bucks to go sealed.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

That’s why I got a sealed box. All I had to do is get close to the right cubic air space and it sounds great. Ported doesn’t sound as good and you have to calculate a bunch of stuff like port size etc.... if you go with pre fabbed, go for sealed. And I can vouch for the b box. Surprisingly belva boxes from sonic electronics are great quality which is crazy cause belva makes ****ty amps. Just DONT buy a schosche box


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## R&C (May 11, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> The installer tuned it so shouldn’t it be good? The bass knob is for sub volume. It’s a kenwood excelon xr901-5 amp and a 12” DVC clarion sub in ported box 500w at 2ohms.
> I thought since the installer tuned it, it shouldn’t Be a problem


Okay, I don’t know about the Kenwood amp or the Clarion Subwoofer, but, here are some things, suggestions:
1. I would start by loosing the “ported” enclosure and use a correctly sized “sealed” enclosure for the Subwoofer you have.

Ported enclosures are touchy and less stable, they can cause the driver to unload, lose physical control below the point where the port is tuned, thereby Jeopardizing it’s safety, sealed enclosures are far more safe for the driver, the required air space is usually less and the bass response is typically Tighter and more linear (predictable).

2. I would arrange the Sub section so that the amplifier sees no less than a 4-ohm load, although this decreases the amplifiers power output a bit, it puts less strain on the amplifier, increases damping Factor and creates a far more musical bass stage.

if you do this, I seriously doubt you’ll blow anymore Subs, plus your amplifier will run cooler, remember heat shortens the life span of components.

There is a reason why the JL Audio $4000 Fathom F112 is not ported, I don’t believe any of their home Subs are ported, all sealed cabinets.

I hope this helps you.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

I was gonna build a custom box cause those prefab boxes seem to be to wide for my space. So from what I’m reading it’s best to go with a sealed enclosure? I thought that greatly impacts the loudness of the subwoofers no?


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

No that's why you're building a tuned box


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I was gonna build a custom box cause those prefab boxes seem to be to wide for my space. So from what I’m reading it’s best to go with a sealed enclosure? I thought that greatly impacts the loudness of the subwoofers no?


I like many others have never used a ported box. I have always had sealed or a 4th order. I have never once had a car or truck that I or a passenger complained and said you know I should have used ported. I know you have some that swear by ported and thats great for them. I think for you especially with the equipment you have and the early issues, you want have any problem with a nice sealed box housing a pair of any of the subs you listed.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I was gonna build a custom box cause those prefab boxes seem to be to wide for my space. So from what I’m reading it’s best to go with a sealed enclosure? I thought that greatly impacts the loudness of the subwoofers no?


Just build the sealed enclosure to the correct recommended volume... as long as you are not wayy off you will be fine. youre going from one low end sub to two pretty beefy subs. yes, they are not "JL Audio" but for the price american bass and NVX and a couple others CANNOT be beat for the price. Ive personally used american bass and nvx for value woofers, im actually still using a nvx sub thats quite similar to the american bass ones you are looking at getting. same voice coil size, same power handling, same xmax, and about the same price tag. I have it in a 1.4 cu ft sealed box and it hits hard. needs about 400-500 watts to get going fully, anymore than about 700 it bottoms out. 

If youre running two in a dual sealed box it will be amazing! each side needs to be 1.25cu ft if i had to make a good guess. mine has similar specs and it recommends that. american bass does not publish a sealed recommendation but i would do 1.25 to 1.5cu ft for each.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lankfordcodi said:


> Just build the sealed enclosure to the correct recommended volume... as long as you are not wayy off you will be fine. youre going from one low end sub to two pretty beefy subs. yes, they are not "JL Audio" but for the price american bass and NVX and a couple others CANNOT be beat for the price. Ive personally used american bass and nvx for value woofers, im actually still using a nvx sub thats quite similar to the american bass ones you are looking at getting. same voice coil size, same power handling, same xmax, and about the same price tag. I have it in a 1.4 cu ft sealed box and it hits hard. needs about 400-500 watts to get going fully, anymore than about 700 it bottoms out.
> 
> If youre running two in a dual sealed box it will be amazing! each side needs to be 1.25cu ft if i had to make a good guess. mine has similar specs and it recommends that. american bass does not publish a sealed recommendation but i would do 1.25 to 1.5cu ft for each.


Oh okay, then I guess I’ll do a sealed. How come they don’t publish a sealed recommendation? Is it cause it’s only meant for ported?


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

No not at all. Are you going to be using the kenwood 1000 watt rms amp? I would recommend building each side of the box at minimum 1.2 cu ft if you can fit it 1.5 cu ft. Like I said, my sub is very similar spec wise and I have mine in a 1.4 and it gets loud. Two of them Would be too much for me.. one is good enough. I’ve seen a YouTube video with the subwoofer you’re getting being reviewed and I think you will be happy.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I would probably start with determining how low you want it to play down to.
Then modelling the sealed and ported for the particular sub.

It seems that you want it loud, and if you also want it loud at a low frequency, then ported is a common way to achieve that.
It just needs to be the right box, and a SS filter to keep it from trying to operate where it unloads... so it either needs to the port tuned low, or the SS filter, or ideally both.

Modelling allows one to determine it before they get the saw running.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Holmz said:


> I would probably start with determining how low you want it to play down to.
> Then modelling the sealed and ported for the particular sub.
> 
> It seems that you want it loud, and if you also want it loud at a low frequency, then ported is a common way to achieve that.
> ...


What’s a good low frequency for it to play at? I was thinking of building a sealed and ported to see how they sound


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

lankfordcodi said:


> No not at all. Are you going to be using the kenwood 1000 watt rms amp? I would recommend building each side of the box at minimum 1.2 cu ft if you can fit it 1.5 cu ft. Like I said, my sub is very similar spec wise and I have mine in a 1.4 and it gets loud. Two of them Would be too much for me.. one is good enough. I’ve seen a YouTube video with the subwoofer you’re getting being reviewed and I think you will be happy.


Yes I’m gonna use the 1000w rms kenwood amp to power them. I’ll try to fit the 1.5cuft since you said it’s better.


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

After trudging through the last 13 pages, I don’t think there’s much I can offer that would be of much help...except, the OP should make sure this new 1000w sub amp (_when powered in conjunction with any other 4 channel amps that might be run_) will not tax the vehicle’s alternator too much during high volume, heavy bass notes.

Having your headlights dim with the bass notes while sitting at a stoplight can be very annoying...


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> What’s a good low frequency for it to play at? I was thinking of building a sealed and ported to see how they sound


Well we know that the 38-Hz port tuning blew apart the suspension on your sub, and I do not listen to Drake... so you will need to do some FFTs to find the lowest notes, or use an app, or go with what other do, which is usually in the 28-32 Hz range or lower.

If you listened to chamber organ music, then that it is 16-Hz... however I do not do Drakes, so you have some work to do before you can build a decent ported box.
A ported needs the port tuned.


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Hypothetical question for no one in particular: a ported box is tuned to 35Hz and the sub’s effective frequency range is 35Hz-1000Hz; is the lack of a subsonic filter still verboten?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

ElNuke said:


> Hypothetical question for no one in particular: a ported box is tuned to 35Hz and the sub’s effective frequency range is 35Hz-1000Hz; is the lack of a subsonic filter still verboten?


If you are playing that organ music with a low of stuff below 35, the sub will be driven past the stops... other music may or may not have stipuff below 35-Hz.
Obviously that Drake stuff must have some frequencies below 35-Hz as welll.

Whatever we play, the SSF then rolls off the power of the stuff below the filter knee.


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Holmz said:


> If you are playing that organ music with a low of stuff below 35, the sub will be driven past the stops... other music may or may not have stipuff below 35-Hz.
> Obviously that Drake stuff must have some frequencies below 35-Hz as welll.
> 
> Whatever we play, the SSF then rolls off the power of the stuff below the filter knee.


Right, I was more curious about the sub being fed frequencies below it’s effective range in such an enclosure. I’m guessing it will still attempt to reproduce them as audible sound, but may sound terrible when it does.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I dunno... where does the effective range come from?

Modelling?
o
a manufactures sheet?

Either way, keeping the suspension from coming undone will make them sound better longer, so you probably want an SSF, I would think?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

I’d love to do a ported box, but I’m just to scared of screwing up the modeling process cause I have never done this before.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I’d love to do a ported box, but I’m just to scared of screwing up the modeling process cause I have never done this before.


why are you so focused on a ported box? You have already blown stuff apart, go sealed as many have recommended already. For you and the equipment you have, you really arent going to notice the difference.


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## DR3W5K1 (Jul 28, 2020)

At this point you might as well just do whatever you want.
You are getting a lot of opinions here.

You have the knowledge to make this decision on your own now.

GL 
PS. I still vote for sealed


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Jroo said:


> why are you so focused on a ported box? You have already blown stuff apart, go sealed as many have recommended already. For you and the equipment you have, you really arent going to notice the difference.


Because ported boxes when done correctly sound better


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

miniSQ said:


> Because ported boxes when done correctly sound better


13 pages because people have to talk to this guy with no experience like he's been doing car audio for 15 years. He can't understand a thing anyone is saying and asks for clarification on everything.

Can you people stop ****ing with this poor kids mind?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

opekone said:


> 13 pages because people have to talk to this guy with no experience like he's been doing car audio for 15 years. He can't understand a thing anyone is saying and asks for clarification on everything.
> 
> Can you people stop ****ing with this poor kids mind?


i said the same thing 10 pages ago, i don't understand half the things being said here and i have been doing this for 40 years. But ported boxes do sound better


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Then suggest he buys the preloaded JL ported enclosure... Why does everyone make this so hard?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

opekone said:


> Then suggest he buys the preloaded JL ported enclosure... Why does everyone make this so hard?


That would have been my suggestion too, but he already bought the AB subs and an amp with a SSF so he can go ported. I don't want to talk him in or out of anything at this time, but if he wants to build a ported box i say go for it. But i love ported boxes.


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

ElNuke said:


> Right, I was more curious about the sub being fed frequencies below it’s effective range in such an enclosure. I’m guessing it will still attempt to reproduce them as audible sound, but may sound terrible when it does.


The "effective range" you are referring to describes the speaker's ability to produce comparable output between those frequencies. If a speaker did exist with the specification of 35 - 1000Hz then between 35Hz and 1000Hz the output should drop no more than 3dB during the test. The lower and upper frequencies listed are where the output has dropped 3dB (at either end of the spectrum). A 3/4" tweeter will try to play a 20Hz note if you send one to it ... it will just blow up during the attempt (much like the OP's subs)

As you try to play lower frequencies the output will drop off (often very steeply) and the excursion will increase (often exponetially). The net effect is that the speaker is pushed to it's mechanical limits but you can't even hear anything (except the slap of it bottoming out) because the output is so low.


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Destarah said:


> The "effective range" you are referring to describes the speaker's ability to produce comparable output between those frequencies. If a speaker did exist with the specification of 35 - 1000Hz then between 35Hz and 1000Hz the output should drop no more than 3dB during the test. The lower and upper frequencies listed are where the output has dropped 3dB (at either end of the spectrum). A 3/4" tweeter will try to play a 20Hz note if you send one to it ... it will just blow up during the attempt (much like the OP's subs)
> 
> As you try to play lower frequencies the output will drop off (often very steeply) and the excursion will increase (often exponetially). The net effect is that the speaker is pushed to it's mechanical limits but you can't even hear anything (except the slap of it bottoming out) because the output is so low.


makes sense, thanks for the details!


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Jroo said:


> why are you so focused on a ported box? You have already blown stuff apart, go sealed as many have recommended already. For you and the equipment you have, you really arent going to notice the difference.


I’m gonna build a sealed box this weekend hopefully and see how I like it. The new subs are coming in on Thursday.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Side note, is it worth putting in rear speakers? Does it add to the total volume? Will it be noticeably louder?


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> I’m gonna build a sealed box this weekend hopefully and see how I like it. The new subs are coming in on Thursday.


That’s a smart approach to the enclosure conundrum IMHO. Building a good ported box isn’t easy, nor is the math to get the cut sheets in the first place. Building a sealed one first will get your woodworking chops wet and prepare you for attempting a ported one should you decide to go that route later.


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

when you design a dual sealed box, for the volume do you calculate it for each subwoofer? so my understanding is even tho its a dual box, each sub is gonna have its own "box" and the boxes are just going to be "joined" together by the center wall right?


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

You can do it with or without a center wall.
Two benefits of using a center wall:
1) added bracing (by having that center wall)
2) if one of the subs fails (or otherwise stops playing) the other carries on like nothing has changed (assuming they are not wired in series). In a single large box for both subs things will change drastically for the functioning sub if the other fails.

The only real benefit I can see to not using the center wall is that the box can be 3/4" smaller


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

Destarah said:


> You can do it with or without a center wall.
> Two benefits of using a center wall:
> 1) added bracing (by having that center wall)
> 2) if one of the subs fails (or otherwise stops playing) the other carries on like nothing has changed (assuming they are not wired in series). In a single large box for both subs things will change drastically for the functioning sub if the other fails.
> ...


Makes sense, but when calculating the volume do I treat each comaprtment as if an individual box?


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Makes sense, but when calculating the volume do I treat each comaprtment as if an individual box?


Do the calculations and such like you are building a sealed for one sub, then just build two boxes.

you will need to adjust the dimensions a little to subtract the width of the wood being used in a couple spots since you are joining two chambers together, but otherwise it’s basically figure it out for one sub and make two of those joined together


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

ElNuke said:


> Do the calculations and such like you are building a sealed for one sub, then just build two boxes.
> 
> you will need to adjust the dimensions a little to subtract the width of the wood being used in a couple spots since you are joining two chambers together, but otherwise it’s basically figure it out for one sub and make two of those joined together


okay sounds good, also how would i figure out the recommended sealed volume? its not specified by the manufacturer, they only specify for ported.


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Hell you could even build two separate boxes, nothing says they have to be together. Case in point this gentleman’s setup: Car Audio Installation help


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> okay sounds good, also how would i figure out the recommended sealed volume? its not specified by the manufacturer, they only specify for ported.


what is the sub make/mode again?


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

ElNuke said:


> what is the sub make/mode again?


American Bass XD12D2


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> okay sounds good, also how would i figure out the recommended sealed volume? its not specified by the manufacturer, they only specify for ported.


Introduce yourself to WinISD, plug in T/S specs, and let it model a box for you.





WinISD - Linearteam


WinISD is freeware speaker designing software for Windows environment. You can design Closed, Vented and Bandpass boxes with this program. It also allows you to calculate few different types of filters. NOTE! WinISD is still in betaversion, so please be patient with errors that may occur. Most...



www.linearteam.org




Here's an overview including a basic walkthrough.





WinISD


An overview of WinISD, the free Windows based software for designing speakers and subwoofers



www.subwoofer-builder.com


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## Wiktorrrr (Jul 29, 2020)

ckirocz28 said:


> Introduce yourself to WinISD, plug in T/S specs, and let it model a box for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea i looked at that but its only for Windows and im on Mac.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

You already said you're low on space and probably can't a standard issue 1cu each prefab box.

Stop overthinking this. You don't think prefab will fit, so build the biggest box you can fit. If you *need *numbers then: If you have more room than you thought you can build the prefab box at 1cu each side. Done. Stop taking advice, stop coming back to this website. Just do it.

Then once it's done come back and post how ****ing happy you are.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Yea i looked at that but its only for Windows and im on Mac.


My condolences. Try this website, they also make an app for Android and iPhone, Speaker Box Lite.




__





SpeakerBoxLite. Subwoofer box calculator, Sub box calculator


Subwoofer box design online software. Subwoofer box calculator online. The calculation of sealed, bass-reflex, bandpass boxes by Thiele-Small parameters. Easy and convenient build your box.




speakerboxlite.com


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## ElNuke (Jan 6, 2019)

Wiktorrrr said:


> American Bass XD12D2


I would prob try approx 3/4 of recommended ported size or 1.25cu ft, whichever is bigger...or as big as can fit in available space. (Per driver)

yeah, I’m also with last poster, you have all the info necessary at this point to start, no more procrastination, git ‘er done! 🔨🧱🪓🔈🔉

(oh yeah, take pics and start a build thread!)


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## JaySea20 (Jun 21, 2020)

I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for informing me of this issue. I'm not a _real_ pro. But, I regularly do installs for friends and friends of friends and friends of friends of friends... You get the idea. But, I just did an install for a guy that wanted cheap boom boom. He also has a ported enclosure with no subsonic filter. ( NOT my design. it was his equipment...) after having read this thread, I made sure and verbally gave him a disclaimer about the "Bass Knob" that he insisted I install on the dash. And explained to him that this is in NO way a "Bullet Proof" installation. and he alone is responsible for the outcome if he turns that knob above 50%.


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

JaySea20 said:


> I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for informing me of this issue. I'm not a _real_ pro. But, I regularly do installs for friends and friends of friends and friends of friends of friends... You get the idea. But, I just did an install for a guy that wanted cheap boom boom. He also has a ported enclosure with no subsonic filter. ( NOT my design. it was his equipment...) after having read this thread, I made sure and verbally gave him a disclaimer about the "Bass Knob" that he insisted I install on the dash. And explained to him that this is in NO way a "Bullet Proof" installation. and he alone is responsible for the outcome if he turns that knob above 50%.



If your friend can swing it here’s a couple 12” subs that are a bit more expensive but have a lot of throw an are unbeatable for the price.. both of the following come in 2 and 4 ohm versions. I wouldn’t recommend them for SQ but if you’re just looking for bass they are great deals... basically something with more throw, a subsonic filter, and a proper box are good ideas for going ported. 









NVX VCW124 VC-Series 2000W 12" Dual 4-ohm Car Audio Subwoofer without Grille 818060011375 | eBay


Product SKU: 46594 ID: vcw124. NVX VCW124. Grill made for the VCW124 availableHere! Download the NVX VCW124 Product Manual. Subwoofer Series VC (NVX). NVX VCW12GR Subwoofer Grill. Protect Your Subwoofer with a Grill Specifically Made for the NVX VCW.



www.ebay.com













American Bass XR12D2 12 inch 1200W Car Subwoofer for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for American Bass XR12D2 12 inch 1200W Car Subwoofer at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

So. Just read this whole thread and wondering if the OP built his sealed box AND if it is still making him happy?

it is hard for folks who don’t know about clipping and over excursion to hear if their subs are being pushed past limits. Especially if they are in the trunk.

For me, I still have to dial these two (see below and sorry for greasy paw prints, Haven’t cleaned that area since install) in for different music types and different sources. Most rap needs that bass dial turned way down. And some older classic rock wounds better to me with a little more on it.
But I will say that stock GM unit clips pretty much above half way to three quarters up. That’s why the knob on the DSP is great.

anyway. Hoping the OP got his answers and I’m sure he is more experienced because of all of you here. Even if some of you were harsh.


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## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

I know (other than the last post) this is pretty old thread. I’m just curious if the OP had a way to monitor clipping ? I have a clip indicator on my bass knob, which I monitor religiously. Pretty hard to damage gear when your not clipping anything


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## _Cynic_ (May 8, 2021)

lankfordcodi said:


> I only have one 12" sub and I push it hard... mine is in a sealed box though so it can take a little more than rated power. Please post pictures of your sub and amps as well as model numbers if you have them. and pictures of the box. but at the end of the day what the main underlying issue issue is... is too much power. But you need to identify how and why you got too much power to it. Sounds like gain was set too high. There is also a slim chance of something else like wrong enclosure size, wired out of phase... but those are more of speculation and not as likley. i think its too much power.


Pretty sure you have that backwards... sealed boxes you can’t run more power and they don’t exchange air so they will get hot fast... blew up my dads old school kicker 15 in a sealed box on 1500 watts one day during summer ****er was pounding harder that a mf. Here’s proof look at the recommended power










edit; maybe check your ground wire it needs to be the same size as your power wire. My Tahoe had the worst wiring imaginable and it never clipped but it definitely destroyed cds from the bass. Also may have read that graph wrong but pretty sure requiring less power means it shouldn’t need as much power as a ported


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> I know (other than the last post) this is pretty old thread. I’m just curious if the OP had a way to monitor clipping ? I have a clip indicator on my bass knob, which I monitor religiously. Pretty hard to damage gear when your not clipping anything


Some people have a nose for it


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

_Cynic_ said:


> Pretty sure you have that backwards... sealed boxes you can’t run more power and they don’t exchange air so they will get hot fast


Just to provide some clarity for those still following this thread, this statement is incorrect. The "proof" provided with the inserted picture only shows that Kicker is satisfied to recommend a lower minimum power for the recommended sealed setup than for the recommended vented setup. The maximum rated 1200W is the same in both situations.
Frankly, it's a bit odd that they have suggested the sealed setup can be recommended with a lower minimum power than the vented, that flies in the face of the physics of enclosure construction /shrug
I wonder if it was a typo?


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Wiktorrrr said:


> Yes it’s the replacement. This time I had him install a new amp and sub and now the sub blew...


most probably the issue lay between volume knob and amplifier.....


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Destarah said:


> Just to provide some clarity for those still following this thread, this statement is incorrect. The "proof" provided with the inserted picture only shows that Kicker is satisfied to recommend a lower minimum power for the recommended sealed setup than for the recommended vented setup. The maximum rated 1200W is the same in both situations.
> Frankly, it's a bit odd that they have suggested the sealed setup can be recommended with a lower minimum power than the vented, that flies in the face of the physics of enclosure construction /shrug
> I wonder if it was a typo?


sealed will have its power limitations because of X-max that is bigger as with ported enclosures where x-max at tunning is at its minimum and grow with frequency, BUT you will have to use subsonic filter 1/3 under the enclosure tunning to prevent overexcursion. Also, ported enclosures get some fresh cold air into the enclosure/drivers motor, that also helps with cooling down of VC....so yes, if everything is set corectly, driver in ported enclosure will take more power than driver in sealed enclosure.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

And the sealed "require" more power than a ported near the tuning freq.
So yeah, they take more power... but they also need more power.


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