# Potentially dumb deadening question-With pics



## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Long time lurker but still in full-blown noob status. I love all the advice everyone gives so, anything said will be listened to. A while back, I deadened my trunk and lid of my '04 Impala SS with Raamat BXT II and it definitely made a difference. I am now going to upgrade my coax in stock door locations and put in SR6500 separates in the doors and pillars. I certainly have read all the material on the benefit of deadening doors so, when I do the change out, I think its something to consider. 

However, I have never had an issue with rattle or noticeable (extreme) outside noise. Pulling my door apart, I see that the manufacturer has taken what I believe to be decent steps to avoid some of this. (See pics) I am not considering sealing the doors. If I were to deaden, I'd probably use sheet metal for the large holes and the 25% rule with about 20 sq. ft. of Raamat for both doors. Would I be wasting money/resources with what I have compared to what the 25% would do or would there be a palpable difference in the effect by going with products specifically made for audio applications? As always, all input is appreciated and I hope this question is not too dumb for this thread.  Happy Holidays!


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

u dont neet to use metal to seal the doors, u can use the deadeing material
when i do vehicles like yours, I keeo the cotton batting like stuff and throw away foam stuff and use deadening material in its place
if ou do that you will still get excellent results


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

So basically replace that foam mold with deadening material and put the thick white material back on top of it?


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

you are correct sir
make sure to do the outer door skin first though..


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks for the advice man. Sounds reasonable.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

A bit OT but are those the Polk SR's? Great speakers. You want to get the axis on those tweets right, to really hear what they can do. Do a temp mount on the pillars where you can play with the angling a bit, before you do the final install.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes, they are. I've been at my dad to sell me his BNIB Dyn 242s with no luck. Rummaging through his garage, I found these BNIB and said "hey, I'll just take these then."  I've read nothing but good things and am aware of the axis sensitivity. I see you have these tweets. Are they in pillars and, how on-axis are they?

Edit: Actually, I now see you're using the midbass but, if you've heard the tweets, same question.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

I ran the SR tweets for about 3 years, before swapping out to the Scans. I had them on the dash and then in the pillars. Pillars worked better for me. Think of the x-firing mode, near tweet aimed at far headrest and vice-versa. Now bring both tweets a bit more on axis to your ears. Play around a bit and you'll find what works best in your car.

However if you're running passive or if you don't have TA, you may want to look at running them in coaxial mode. The phase plug on the mid can be taken out and you can mount the tweet there. It also gives you the option of angling the tweets in this mode. If you can't TA each driver, I would start with the coaxial mode and go for better tonality.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

I don't have TA and am running them passive. Considered going active but, my wallet and my skills are still pretty inexperienced. The reason for wanting them in the pillars is my stage height is a little low now (around shoulder level) with my coax set. Do you think being able to angle the tweeters will raise that? (currently cannot angle tweeters but the 6.5 mounts are slightly angled up, about 1/4" more on the bottom of the baffle then the top)


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Yes angling the tweets in coax mode will raise your stage at the centre. The edges will pull down a bit. BUT, you will have much better tonality due to phase coherence between your mids and tweet. 

With TA I would go with dash level or pillars for sure. Try them in coax mode with tweets angled up and towards the centre. Then try them on the pillars, see what you prefer.

The passive xovers on that set are HUGE, so you'll have to figure out where you want to mount them.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah, the crossover question was one that I've been bouncing around for a while. Haven't quite decided on that one yet. Thanks for your advice, man. I guess it's cheaper to try it in coax mode and see if I like it.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

The mids need about 100 hours of play time to loosen up. You may find the mid bass a bit thin when you start off (depending on what you're used to), but just wait for a while.

The nice thing about the passive xover is that it allows you to bi-amp. So you can use all four channels from your Memphis to run the SR's. More power, more dynamics. I'd disconnect the rears for a while and just listen to the SR's. Then decide if you want the rears.

So when are you installing them?


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

I have some advice on the doors...

I'm working on my '03 IMPALA and gutted the whole car so I could make the car as quiet as possible to outside noise, which in turn means it will also keep the sound in the car where you want it.

Out of everything I did, the most noticeable improvement was the MLV I added to the doors. Take that white moisture barrier and lay it down on a piece of MLV, trace it out and cut to the same size, including the slots that are on the original piece. Draw a line on the new MLV where the silicone was applied to the original piece, this will seal the door when you put it back together.

Replace all the plastic "Christmas Trees" that need it (I replaced them all) and put the white barrier back on the door panel.

Drill out the holes in the MLV for the "Christmas Trees" with a 1/4" hole drill bit and then cut three 1/4" slots on each hole so you can slip the trees into the holes. Now install the new MLV layer on top of the white barrier with the "Line" you drew for the silicone on the outside.

On the inside door skin, use a CLD both above and below the support beam, 2 strips of Rattletrap worked fine for me, for about 35% coverage. Now Apply a layer of CCF to the bottom portion of the outer door skin, behind where the speaker is located to cut the back wave.

I used the factory plastic baffles and simply added 2 pounds of non hardening clay to each to give them alot more mass. Look in the heater isle of any home builders supply. It's cheap and worked perfectly.

Before you re-install the door panel, apply silicone to the trace line you drew on the outer surface of the MLV, this will effectively seal the large holes in the metal door. Allow the silicone to dry overnight for best results.

I have the Polk MM6501 comps in the door/A-Pillar and have no rattles of any kind. I mounter the tweets about 4 inches from the top of the pillar, aimed almost perfectly off-axis, just a little bit towards the from seats and my sound stage is amazing.

You know how when your driving down the highway and come to a portion of road with a barrier wall, and you can hear the exhaust noise echoing off the wall and directly into the car... that is totally gone now. This was the best "Bang for my buck" out of any of the deadening I installed.

Three sheets of MLV will do the four doors, since the back doors are shorter you can get 2 out of one sheet. I used a fourth sheet inside the back of the back seat. I noticed before that when I had the back seat down, the road noise was no louder then when it was closed up. Now when you close the back seats up, you can't hear the exhaust nearly as much. I did put a high flow exhaust on though, so mine is much louder then stock.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

sqnut-I'll probably be getting them in a few weeks. I've got to get clear of Xmas and my daughter's birthday the 2nd week of January to clear some money up. My dad actually had two sets of these (one that he put in a car of his) and he harped about the break-in period as well. He has an oscillator so, we're going to throw the speakers on that for a few days to loosen them up. I've got the 4 channels on my Memphis bridged to the fronts and, when I did that, it made all the difference in the world so I plan on putting all that power on these as well. No matter how much people speak against it, I still like rear fill. I keep it mostly faded to the front unless my son and his friends are in the back but, I don't like it when it's completely gone. That may change with better fronts though. Either way, I've got the rears on a small Arc so, it won't change the power the fronts get.

hilander999-Thanks for that walk-through. I wasn't wanting to get into sealing the doors but, after seeing your pic, I'm kind of wanting to. It would be a shame to waste the guide you just gave me, especially since it's specific to my vehicle.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

bmiller1 said:


> hilander999-Thanks for that walk-through. I wasn't wanting to get into sealing the doors but, after seeing your pic, I'm kind of wanting to. It would be a shame to waste the guide you just gave me, especially since it's specific to my vehicle.


The firewall and floor are already pretty well protected from road noise and vibration from the factory, the remaining three verticals (doors and rear seat) are not even close. There was an amazing cut in outside noise after the MLV was added.

One correction I need to make to the walkthrough above, is that you must attach the "Christmas Trees" to the mlv with the spikes on the same side as your line for the silicone, then attach the white barrior to the mlv, and install the two pieces to the door panel as a single unit. It will be tight, but it will not rattle. Normally you would want to use a layer of ccf between the metal and the mlv, but the factory white barrior makes everything for tight enough that there is no movement from the MLV.

Also note that if you do this, you cannot tighten the screw that holds the door handle cover on the whole way or the automatic locks will not move enough to lock and unlock the doors. Simply tighten them a little and then back them off untill the locks work correctly, I was worried about vibration from the loose screw, but have not had any vibration at all so far and it's been 4 months now since I added the MLV.

Since we are esentially sealing the mlv to the metal door skin, you are closing all the wholes with the single piece of mlv instead of trying to cover each hole individually so this really was the lowest cost, easiest way to treat the doors for this specific vehicle. Figure about an hour per door if you work at a decient pace. It's not dificult at all, just time consuming so don't get in a hury.

Make sure you have a razor blade and a very shap pair of sissors to cut the MLV with. A cordless drill and a 1/4 hole drill bit (used for wood) worked perfectly to make the holes for the christmas trees.

The back seat is really easy, simply remove it from the car and there is a slot where the material is conected together at the bottom on the back side. Open it up and slide a sheet of mlv between the plastic seat back and the fabric, then seal it back up. Cut 2 small pieces for the sides and hook them into the foam with the plastic pins that hold the fabric down.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Man, I really appreciate all the pointers. You've made this pretty easy on me. Thanks for all the time you put in explaining that. I'm not sure I need to do the back seat because I already did the entire trunk but, if it's that simple, might as well go ahead and do it while I'm working on it.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

bmiller1 said:


> Man, I really appreciate all the pointers. You've made this pretty easy on me. Thanks for all the time you put in explaining that. I'm not sure I need to do the back seat because I already did the entire trunk but, if it's that simple, might as well go ahead and do it while I'm working on it.


Do this... fold down the back seat and drive down the road, turn everything off (heater and stereo) and listen to the road noise only. Now fold the seat back up and listen again, if it's not quieter with the seat in it's closed position, then you are getting noise from the trunk area inside the cabin which is what you want to reduce as much as possible.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

hilander999 said:


> Do this... fold down the back seat and drive down the road, turn everything off (heater and stereo) and listen to the road noise only. Now fold the seat back up and listen again, if it's not quieter with the seat in it's closed position, then you are getting noise from the trunk area inside the cabin which is what you want to reduce as much as possible.


Gotcha. I'll give that a shot. This all sounds pretty simple and very effective. One question about the plastic baffles. Are you just applying a layer of non-hardening clay to the inside of them?


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

No, there really was no room with the drivers installed. I simply used "Duct Seal" from Lowe's on the outside of the plastic baffle after it was reinstalled on the door panel. I Don't know if I really needed to do this or not, but I don't like taking the door panels off so I figured I would just do this while everything was appart and be done. I used 2 blocks per door, one on top and one on the bottom, kinda like making a volcano for a school project, looks ugly but no one will ever see it with the door panel on.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

True. You've been a great help man. Thanks for sharing this info. I think it will work out great.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

bmiller1 said:


> True. You've been a great help man. Thanks for sharing this info. I think it will work out great.


Well this worked great for me and is all totally reversable. I'm actually looking to find one of these with the V8 in good condition to replace my other car and would probbly just swap the meterial to the new car. I custom built an amp rack that fits under the rear deck which would also be transfered to the new car and leave the factory stereo in tact.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

hilander999 said:


> Well this worked great for me and is all totally reversable. I'm actually looking to find one of these with the V8 in good condition to replace my other car and would probbly just swap the meterial to the new car. I custom built an amp rack that fits under the rear deck which would also be transfered to the new car and leave the factory stereo in tact.


Nice! I wish I had the room to do something like that but, the best I could do was mount my amps behind the back seat. Not exactly much room for groceries and whatnot. 










I wasn't aware they had a V8 model. I have the supercharged version and I've done some upgrade to the SC, exhaust, etc. It's nice but, not quite a V8.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

When I bought mine new, I test drove 3 different Impala's with the supercharged engine, and all of them had about 4 tenths of a second lag at an idle when stomping the pedal to the floor. This means that if your at a stop light, and someone is about to hit you, you won't be able to move in enough time to get out of the way... so I bought the 3800 v6 since it has no lag of any kind. upgraded headlights, suspension, magnaflow exhaust, front grille, FIPK and all the interior tweaks.

My goal was an install that no one will notice. I have a tiny blaupunkt 8" sub in an alluminum enclosure, with a pair of tactile trasducers mounted under the fron seats. I retained all but about 1.5 cubic feet of trunk space with this design.


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## BlackFx4InTn (Apr 11, 2009)

bmiller1 said:


> Nice! I wish I had the room to do something like that but, the best I could do was mount my amps behind the back seat. Not exactly much room for groceries and whatnot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love the copper leads to your subs instead of speaker wire, where could I get those? I plan on inverting my sub and I like the look of that much better.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

A friend of mine on here did that. I think he just got copper tubing at a hardware store. Couple polishes using the wadding type metal polish makes all the difference. 


Sent from my iPhone using DIYMA


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

hilander999, Great tutorial! Will be using some of these tips on the Blazer.  Thanks


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## mstrmagoo (Jun 5, 2011)

hilander999 said:


> I have some advice on the doors...
> 
> I'm working on my '03 IMPALA and gutted the whole car so I could make the car as quiet as possible to outside noise, which in turn means it will also keep the sound in the car where you want it.
> 
> ...


I have an '05 Impala, and was thinking of doing the same thing you did. Where did you get your MLV from? It looks like it was just a single sheet for the whole door panel?


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

> I have an '05 Impala, and was thinking of doing the same thing you did. Where did you get your MLV from? It looks like it was just a single sheet for the whole door panel?


Second Skin Luxury Liner - Mass Loaded Vinyl Noise Barrier - 1.25 lbs psf Automotive MLV

If your just doing the 4 doors, you need three sheets. If you position the back templates on one sheet at the same time you can get both rear doors out of a single sheet, and the 4th sheet works perfectly for the rear seat, unless you "Want" sound comming from the trunk.

It was the best bang for my buck out of all the deadening I did last summer. I bought the 4 pack, shipping is HIGH. As long as you get the same density, I don't really think it matters where you get it from. I am satisfied with the cost/performance ratio of this product for my application.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

hilander999-I was wanting to clear up a couple of things, if you don't care as it's tax time and I'm about to get this stuff going. After doing my 25-35% on the inner/outer parts of my door, its my understanding that almost all of what you are doing is on the door card. Like so:

door card||OEM white stuff||MLV||silicone||door (metal)

Is this correct? If so, by sealing the MLV to the metal part of the door, will I have scrape and reseal each time I take my door apart? What kind of silicone are you using?

I truly appreciate your time and am thankful for any help.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

bmiller1 said:


> hilander999-I was wanting to clear up a couple of things, if you don't care as it's tax time and I'm about to get this stuff going. After doing my 25-35% on the inner/outer parts of my door,


All I did was add rattletrap extreme to the outer door skin. 2 pieces, one above and the other below the intrusion bar. Well it was more like 6 smaller pieces that make 2 larger pieces. I covered as much of the outer door skin as I could easily get to. As for the inner door metal, there was nothing there that rattled when I thumped it because of all the ridges in the pressed door metal, so I felt no need to add anything to it at this time. I still have no rattle issues with this particular door design.



> its my understanding that almost all of what you are doing is on the door card. Like so:
> 
> door card||OEM white stuff||MLV||silicone||door (metal)
> 
> Is this correct?


Yes, assemble the 3 pieces together, then apply a small bead of silicone around the same place that the factory white barrior had when you removed it. 


> If so, by sealing the MLV to the metal part of the door, will I have scrape and reseal each time I take my door apart? What kind of silicone are you using?


The factory door barior (white) was originally sealed with silicone and I did not have to scrape anything off so I replaced it the same way it was built in the first place. The silicone will pry up like a long rubber band and come off of the metal fairly easy and there should be no reason to scrape anything.

Now on the other hand, if you apply some type of CLD to the inner door metal, that will have direct contact with the MLV, you may want to test how "Permenant" the 2 materials will be before using it on your doors.

It's simply meant to keep the water from damaging the interior of the door.

I used the cheap white bathroom silicone caulk sold at LOWE'S for $2.50 a tube. One small tube did 2 doors. This is not the one you use in a caulk gun, it was just a small white tube of silicone caulk.



> I truly appreciate your time and am thankful for any help.


Not a problem, I think a lot more people would use this method if they see how easy it was and what type of results you get from it.

So PLEASE..... Let us all know how this turns out for you. You will notice the most difference when sitting next to a building, like a drive-thru window, you won't hear the exaust bouncing off the wall and going directly into the car with you.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks again, man. I'll definitely let you know. We're going to be doing new components, pillars, the doors and (maybe) a new amp so, I'll put up a build log.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

bmiller1 said:


> Thanks again, man. I'll definitely let you know. We're going to be doing new components, *pillars*, the doors and (maybe) a new amp so, I'll put up a build log.




I thought about doing pods for the tweets, but after some testing I found the best place for the tweeters I was using to be about 4 inches from the top of the A Pillar, Off axis and almost pointed directly at each other. Add a little time alignment and they sound amazing and bring the stage right up to where it should have been from the factory. I'll never understand why they mounted tweeters in the bottom of the doors.... upgraded sound system my a$$.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Alright, I've followed hilander999's instructions to a T and everything worked beautifully. The time frame of an hour per door is just about right. I can honestly say that my car has never sounded so good. No rattles or vibrations and I would call it a solid 25% increase in midbass output. Couple that with sqnut's advice on tweeter placement and xo points, my system is sounding pretty stout. 

*One note: I would suggest, instead of running the bead of silicone on the MLV, I would run it on the metal part of the door itself (the factory silicone will leave visible residue so that you can see where to run it). The reason for this is because it is possible that the thin metal section at the top of the door card that slides into clips on the door is sometimes difficult to negotiate just right. It is also possible that, while trying to place the card into those clips and manipulate the door handle into place, you *could* (unknown to you) be effectively smearing silicone all over your beautiful midbasses. This realization could cause you to cuss, spill your beer in the driveway, and walk across the street and kick the neighbor's puppy out of frustration before calming down and cleaning it up only to attempt it again. Just sayin. 

Here's some pics (some were taken with a decent camera, others were not):



















No reason you can't have fun with it:























































Thanks, hilander999!! Good stuff!


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

Glad you got some use out of my post, and sorry about the beer.
I'm going to assume you were being metaphorical about kicking the dog.

What did you do with the tweets? Pods or Pillars? or Pods in Pillars?


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

The beer was true and the dog was for humor (saying it, not kicking it). I currently have the tweeters in the pillars, just flush mounted so I could listen to them at that axis for a couple of weeks and so I would be ready for Freezefest. After the weekend, we're going to put them in pods in the pillars. Maybe about 4 inches below where yours are.


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

Brad tell me you did not punt the puppy. It is looking good brad. I love the rainbow modeling clay.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah? You like that? That's what happens when you send your HILARIOUS friends to pick up supplies.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

this thread helped me out to plan for deadening my doors (2008 VW Jetta) however im not sure how to deaden the outter skin of the doors. the inner skin is solid. the largest hole is the speaker hole, other than that there are 1" holes for some wiring. im not comforatvble enough to remove the outter skin from the outside as i will have to remove door hanlde etc. help? 

would a dynaxorb square behind each speaker be sufficent?

CC


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

vwjmkv said:


> this thread helped me out to plan for deadening my doors (2008 VW Jetta) however im not sure how to deaden the outter skin of the doors. the inner skin is solid. the largest hole is the speaker hole, other than that there are 1" holes for some wiring. im not comforatvble enough to remove the outter skin from the outside as i will have to remove door hanlde etc. help?
> 
> would a dynaxorb square behind each speaker be sufficent?
> 
> CC


You want something behind the speaker, I used some CCF on the bottom portion of the door to keep from having an echo in the door.

As for the outer skin, You may not even need it on a German car because they tend to overkill the doors to begin with. 

Do you have rattles from the door with the speaker playing at a generous volume?


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## Vital (Feb 23, 2010)

bmiller1 said:


> Alright, I've followed hilander999's instructions to a T and everything worked beautifully. The time frame of an hour per door is just about right. I can honestly say that my car has never sounded so good. No rattles or vibrations and I would call it a solid 25% increase in midbass output. Couple that with sqnut's advice on tweeter placement and xo points, my system is sounding pretty stout.
> 
> *One note: I would suggest, instead of running the bead of silicone on the MLV, I would run it on the metal part of the door itself (the factory silicone will leave visible residue so that you can see where to run it). The reason for this is because it is possible that the thin metal section at the top of the door card that slides into clips on the door is sometimes difficult to negotiate just right. It is also possible that, while trying to place the card into those clips and manipulate the door handle into place, you *could* (unknown to you) be effectively smearing silicone all over your beautiful midbasses. This realization could cause you to cuss, spill your beer in the driveway, and walk across the street and kick the neighbor's puppy out of frustration before calming down and cleaning it up only to attempt it again. Just sayin.
> 
> ...


Is this Second Skin's Luxury Liner (pro)?
I'm thinking of doing the same to my doors but would like to try something cheaper....


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

It's the MLV from Sound Deadener Showdown. Don is the man and will take care of you. 


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## supermotofan (Nov 29, 2010)

I would now like to nominate this thread to "Best Of" status.

Thanks to all who contributed.


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

supermotofan said:


> I would now like to nominate this thread to "Best Of" status.
> 
> Thanks to all who contributed.


There is a "Rate this thread" option on the top bar of this screen. 

When I was looking for how to do this, I found very little information so was quick to post how when someone with the same car was asking for help with something I had just completed.


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## myhikingboots (Oct 28, 2010)

sub'd


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## jdmferio13 (Nov 1, 2009)

hilander999 said:


> You want something behind the speaker, I used some CCF on the bottom portion of the door to keep from having an echo in the door.
> 
> As for the outer skin, You may not even need it on a German car because they tend to overkill the doors to begin with.
> 
> Do you have rattles from the door with the speaker playing at a generous volume?


so do this even if you deaden the outer skin as well?


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## hilander999 (Jul 6, 2011)

jdmferio13 said:


> so do this even if you deaden the outer skin as well?


Yes, you want somthing to stop the echo inside the door. Closed cell foam or a deflex pad would be a good choice. It's like adding carpet to an empty room with wood floors.


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