# Dynaudio Esotar2 Install



## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Dynaudio Esotar 110 and 650 component set. Currently I'm trying to decide on an amp for the setup. I was leaning towards the Mosconi Gladen One. These are going to be mated with my *currently installed dual JL 10W7's*, powered by an HD 750. Everything controlled by a *Panasonic 80PRS*.

I'm looking for advice on which amplifier to buy. I was also wondering if anyone has installed the Esotar 110 and 650 then later installed the 430. A lot of people have claimed that the 430 is really the star of the show but I wasn't planning to purchasing the 430.
So any advice from you guys would be awesome. As well as a review from anyone who has heard the Esotar 110, coupled with the 650 and/or 430. If you guys want I can update this thread with install pictures and my personal review of the set once I get it installed and running.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

NateZ28 said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Dynaudio Esotar 110 and 650 component set. Currently I'm trying to decide on an amp for the setup. I was leaning towards the Mosconi Gladen One. These are going to be mated with my *currently installed dual JL 10W7's*, powered by an HD 750. Everything controlled by a *Panasonic 80PRS*.
> 
> I'm looking for advice on which amplifier to buy. I was also wondering if anyone has installed the Esotar 110 and 650 then later installed the 430. A lot of people have claimed that the 430 is really the star of the show but I wasn't planning to purchasing the 430.
> So any advice from you guys would be awesome. As well as a review from anyone who has heard the Esotar 110, coupled with the 650 and/or 430. If you guys want I can update this thread with install pictures and my personal review of the set once I get it installed and running.


I think that's a great combo, the Esotars, W7s, and the HD amp.

I ran the 430 midrange before I had the rest of the Esotars so it wasn't until later I had experience with the 650 and 110.. I had the Esotec 342 set and the first thing I upgraded was the 142 dome mid to the 430. Then the 650 and then the 110. If I had to choose, I would say the 110 is the star of the show but that opinion might change on any given day, they're all great.

I think you're on the right track doing the 650 and 110 first. The 650 has such great midrange that you might find the 430 is unnecessary. I fed the 650 300wpc and had a mistake in the highpass crossover that I didn't catch for a while but basically they were playing much lower than I thought they were. I bottomed them twice and I was very surprised because there were no signs of stress or a muddy midrange. They sounded great all the way up to the loudest clack I've ever heard. Once it happened the first time I pulled the door card off and turned it back up close to where it was at when it bottomed and on the same song. I looked over in shock. There looked to be almost 1" of excursion yet it sounded great. I know xmax is kind of average but there were no audible cues that I was waaaay past xmax. But back to my point, I think some people go with a 3-way because the midrange will get a little muddy when they're trying to crank it up and there's a lot of power and excursion. These just do not give up.

Along with the 650's midrange abilities, the 110 tweeter has no problem playing plenty low and loud without a hint of stress. I still highpass mine at 3khz even though they're in a 3-way.

I never did try the whole Esotar set together, I replaced the 650 with the MW182 while I still had the 102 tweeters installed and the last change I made was the 110 tweeters which probably made the single biggest difference compared to the Esotecs they were replacing but that's just my car.

The 430 is an awesome midrange but I can't say knowing what I know now and if I still had the 650s I would get the 430s. For my current setup with the 9" midbass they're perfect since the 9s would be hard to mate with just a tweeter without running into beaming but with the 6.5" in a 2-way it may or may not be worth it. 

As for power, I would go with as much as you can afford. A good mid level amp with lots of power would be my choice over an expensive yet lower powered amp. A 600/4 would be a good start for the fronts. A pair of 600/4s would give you room to grow into a 3-way while allowing you to bridge one of them to the midbass.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> I think that's a great combo, the Esotars, W7s, and the HD amp.
> 
> I ran the 430 midrange before I had the rest of the Esotars so it wasn't until later I had experience with the 650 and 110.. I had the Esotec 342 set and the first thing I upgraded was the 142 dome mid to the 430. Then the 650 and then the 110. If I had to choose, I would say the 110 is the star of the show but that opinion might change on any given day, they're all great.
> 
> ...


Thank you for replying. Interesting that you replaced the 650. I have an opportunity to just buy the tweeters if I want and maybe get a different brand mid-woofer. But I can get the 650's for a very good price from this guy. I would like to run everything active, so I can only go 3-way for the time being.

It's also interesting that you recommend a class-D amp for the speakers. I've heard from several people and I've read some detailed documentation on this forum about why even the new high end class-D amps are still not up to par with the A/B amps, for speakers. For that reason I will probably not be going with a class-D amp such as the JL HD series. While I think the HD series is fine for subwoofers since they don't have to be quite as accurate. But maybe that's just bias. I'd love to hear what you have to say about the A/B vs class-D amps.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

The blind listening tests have proven there is no difference. Lots of JL HDs used in SQ winning comp cars as well. I owned a McIntosh that was originally going to power the Esotars. I decided just for the heck of it to see how much worse the HD sounded so I hooked it up. There was no difference other than the HD had practically zero noise floor while the McIntosh had a hint. I had both in the car for a couple months and ended up going with the HDs which was totally unexpected. There was no reason not to use the HD amps if I couldn't hear a difference and the HDs will fit under my seats and use less power. 

It was t about money, I had the equipment already and I don't think bias because I didn't think for a second the HD would sound as good as the Mac. Even if there is truly no difference in sound between class D and class AB which I believe, if the psychoacoustics make you hear a thin or bright sound as some people imagine, the AB might be worth it. 

The 650 is the best 6.5" I've ever heard. I would stick with that. I went with the Dyn 182s partially out of curiosity and since I already had the 430 for midrange duty I had the option to use the 182 as just an air mover and crossing the 430 low if I didn't like it. Fortunately the 182 will play as high as you could ever need it to and while it doesn't have the midrange the 650 did, it is very relaxed at 63Hz with little excursion while the 650 (and any 6.5") needed a lot of excursion to get there or be crossed over higher. The 650 did give a "big midbass" sound but the 182 just does it better. It's also shallow and has a small profile so fitting it in the door wasn't much more involved than cutting the hole larger.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> The blind listening tests have proven there is no difference. Lots of JL HDs used in SQ winning comp cars as well. I owned a McIntosh that was originally going to power the Esotars. I decided just for the heck of it to see how much worse the HD sounded so I hooked it up. There was no difference other than the HD had practically zero noise floor while the McIntosh had a hint. I had both in the car for a couple months and ended up going with the HDs which was totally unexpected. There was no reason not to use the HD amps if I couldn't hear a difference and the HDs will fit under my seats and use less power.
> 
> It was t about money, I had the equipment already and I don't think bias because I didn't think for a second the HD would sound as good as the Mac. Even if there is truly no difference in sound between class D and class AB which I believe, if the psychoacoustics make you hear a thin or bright sound as some people imagine, the AB might be worth it.
> 
> The 650 is the best 6.5" I've ever heard. I would stick with that. I went with the Dyn 182s partially out of curiosity and since I already had the 430 for midrange duty I had the option to use the 182 as just an air mover and crossing the 430 low if I didn't like it. Fortunately the 182 will play as high as you could ever need it to and while it doesn't have the midrange the 650 did, it is very relaxed at 63Hz with little excursion while the 650 (and any 6.5") needed a lot of excursion to get there or be crossed over higher. The 650 did give a "big midbass" sound but the 182 just does it better. It's also shallow and has a small profile so fitting it in the door wasn't much more involved than cutting the hole larger.


Wow you are the first person with a high end set up I've talked to that really spoke up for the JL HD series. I'd definitely like to get some more input on this subject though.
I know once the speakers arrive I'm going to want to get them installed ASAP so I need to make up my mind on the amp.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

NateZ28, 

I too can ( and several others ) on this forum can attest to the SQ of the HD line. I am running 2 600/4's and 1 1200/1 to a Morel Supremo 3 way using piccolo tw / cdm88 midrange. my next iteration will use 2 HD900/5 and possibly 2 1200/1's. I've ran these compact amps for 3 years with no issues regarding heat, functionality or overall sound. 
Not trying to sway your decision but BuickGN is on the money...


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

JL HD are great amps. No reason not to buy them if you going for a highend system.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Dyn 650 got a really nice midrange. The MW-series are just as good in the midbass/lower midrange so if you go for 430 I'd buy a MW woofer instead.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

If I was going Dyn (or could afford to) I would look at exactly what BuickGN has done. After going 3 way and large midbass I don't know if I could go back to a 2 way. If I had the money, I'd love to try something like Bick has done but with the ES650 instead of the 430. Less excursion is always good and man that could get loud and maintain it's composure.

As for amps, I have heard that JLHD one of the best D class full range you can buy. I have not really heard too many of them running full range yet tho. I guess I don't really have experience enough with various amps classes to give an opinion yet. Ask me in a few weeks


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## WinWiz (Sep 25, 2013)

Dynaudio speakers generally sounds best on a high current amp...


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

WinWiz said:


> Dynaudio speakers generally sounds best on a high current amp...


So are you saying class D or A/B?


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Class does not matter. Power does.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

Hanatsu said:


> Class does not matter. Power does.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


So then what's your take on this? Mosconi Vs JL HD 600?

Are you guys putting the Mosconi AS series in the same class?


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

I went ahead and opened a poll over here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-dynaudio-esotar2-components.html#post2051694

I will be updating this thread as I purchase the amp and start getting these installed. Here is what they look like in tha box:


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## WinWiz (Sep 25, 2013)

They look so nice!
And I bet they play even nicer


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

mmmm..... yummy!

I wish I had those tweets, and echo what Buick says about the 650/182 combo.
HAve fun!


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## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

NateZ28 said:


> Wow you are the first person with a high end set up I've talked to that really spoke up for the JL HD series. I'd definitely like to get some more input on this subject though.
> I know once the speakers arrive I'm going to want to get them installed ASAP so I need to make up my mind on the amp.


I too have switched around between quality class D and class A/B amps and haven't really noticed a difference.

Just shoot for a good reputable manufacturer that supports their product and an amp that has plenty of power for your application.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

NateZ28 said:


> So then what's your take on this? Mosconi Vs JL HD 600?
> 
> Are you guys putting the Mosconi AS series in the same class?


Why not? The best amp would be that with most power, best build quality and highest efficiency. I rather spend my money on a great set of speakers and a DSP if I want the system to sound different.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

Hanatsu said:


> Why not? The best amp would be that with most power, best build quality and highest efficiency. I rather spend my money on a great set of speakers and a DSP if I want the system to sound different.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


I don't want the amp to color the sound at all. Do people buy the expensive class AB amps because of how they alter the sound? Or are the considered more "accurate"?


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## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

I think a common misconception is that if it's A/B then it automatically has a type of "sound." Heck the same with class D. 

Of course not every amp made will sound exactly the same, but well-made, reputable models that have the power you require shouldn't sound way different from each-other. That's a a touchy subject in the audio world, but that's been my experience anyways..

Either way, the speakers and DSP tuning are going to make waaaaaay more of an impact on the final sound then one well-made amp from another.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

What about the Mosconi Gladen One? Any opinions on that? I can get one for a very fair price right now.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

NateZ28 said:


> What about the Mosconi Gladen One? Any opinions on that? I can get one for a very fair price right now.


I have a Mosconi One 120.4 bridged for my midbass and it has a tonne of nice clean power for them. I barely scratch the surface of it actually. It has zero noise floor to my ears, definitely enough power and then some and a nice small attractive package. I really like it so much so I have thought about getting another and a powerful mono block of some sort (maybe even One 1000.1) and replace my Audison 5.1k. That should give you an idea of what I think of it.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

james2266 said:


> I have a Mosconi One 120.4 bridged for my midbass and it has a tonne of nice clean power for them. I barely scratch the surface of it actually. It has zero noise floor to my ears, definitely enough power and then some and a nice small attractive package. I really like it so much so I have thought about getting another and a powerful mono block of some sort (maybe even One 1000.1) and replace my Audison 5.1k. That should give you an idea of what I think of it.


Do you think it would be enough to also power the tweets? You are running your's bridged.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

NateZ28 said:


> Do you think it would be enough to also power the tweets? You are running your's bridged.


120 real watts is more than enough for any tweet. Can you throw more at th them? Sure, but is it needed? I don't think so but I have heard of a guy running 750 to every speaker too.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

120w is more than enough. I have 150w and it's probably going to stay there while I eventually add more power to the mids and midbass. The 110 tweeter is pretty efficient too. When I switched out the 102s for the 110s with no changes to the tune, the 110s were considerably louder.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> 120w is more than enough. I have 150w and it's probably going to stay there while I eventually add more power to the mids and midbass. The 110 tweeter is pretty efficient too. When I switched out the 102s for the 110s with no changes to the tune, the 110s were considerably louder.


What about the mid-woofer? Isn't it 200 Watts RMS at 4 ohms?

Here's an interesting quote from Morgan West: 


Morgan West said:


> ...JL makes fantastic product, HD’s will be smaller and more efficient. However, most old school/audiophile guys (there are still a few left around here I hope?) still prefer the sound of a well designed class A/B amplifier....


What is "the sound of a well designed class A/B amplifier"? Can someone explain that to me, compared to a high end class D amp? This sounds to me almost like vinyl vs CD territory.
In terms of high end class A/B I'm referring to the Phoenix Gold Elite.4 or Mosconi AS.


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## NateZ28 (Oct 2, 2013)

Here is a link to the final install: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ar2-sq-install-genesis-coupe.html#post2065787


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## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

Running those components, I seriously doubt that you will hear much of a difference in amplifiers. Get a good brand and you'll be fine. Any one of Mosconi, Arc, Zapco, JL Audio, DD, Zed, etc. will give excellent results. There are only a few amp designs around - for example, Clarion and Cerwin Vega and Arc Audio use the same amplifier design. Do a search and you will find comparisons of the PPI with Hertz and others. They are built mostly by the same few build houses.


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