# Is midrange placement critical when using horns?



## dablooz (Sep 27, 2011)

By midrange I mean 300 Hz - 1.7 kHz

Obviously for things like beaming it would still matter depending on the midrange size and x-over frequency, but what about the distance between the horns and midranges? Does that differ from a conventional mid/tweeter arrangement?

For example, I was thinking of installing my horns under the dash like everyone else, but installing my midranges on top of the dash. Would I still need to take into account the distance between the midranges and the horns since the whole dash is supposed to become an extension of the horns? In my mind I want to think that the midranges would still be close to the horns in this arrangement even though they aren't physically close. I just don't want to run into lobing and things like that.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

if you are using horns, then a "midrange" is not generally used. get a nice efficient 6.5 - 8" midbass and run it from 70-1000 hz. beaming will not be an issue for those freqs at that size.

the horns will play down to 1000hz where the midbass left off. all done.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

dablooz said:


> By midrange I mean 300 Hz - 1.7 kHz
> 
> Obviously for things like beaming it would still matter depending on the midrange size and x-over frequency, but what about the distance between the horns and midranges? Does that differ from a conventional mid/tweeter arrangement?
> 
> For example, I was thinking of installing my horns under the dash like everyone else, but installing my midranges on top of the dash. Would I still need to take into account the distance between the midranges and the horns since the whole dash is supposed to become an extension of the horns? In my mind I want to think that the midranges would still be close to the horns in this arrangement even though they aren't physically close. I just don't want to run into lobing and things like that.


Yeah it's tricky for a couple of reasons. First, car horns have a weird directivity pattern because the mouth shape isn't symmetrical. Second, the origin of the wavefront is frequency dependent. For the most part, the wavefront originates at the mouth. (logically you'd think the origin would be the diaphragm of the loudspeaker but it's not)


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## dablooz (Sep 27, 2011)

minbari said:


> if you are using horns, then a "midrange" is not generally used. get a nice efficient 6.5 - 8" midbass and run it from 70-1000 hz. beaming will not be an issue for those freqs at that size.
> 
> the horns will play down to 1000hz where the midbass left off. all done.


Yes, I realize that but I wanted to go 3-way with my horns. It might be unorthodox but it's something I wish to do. It opens up more possibilites for what I can use for midbass drivers.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

For what you are trying to do its all about the path lengths, both l vs r and horn vs midbass. If you are building a one seater you can use delays to get everything working together.

A small driver you can mount on the dash isnt going to have the efficiency of the midbass or the horns and will become your weak link for volume and dynamics.

Get a good midbass they can easily play very well up until the horn takes over. There are some advantages to a 3 way but only for a die hard SQ competitor really.

Eric


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

^ Agreed... 

I'd rather fit a 6", an 8" or a 10" driver low to be paired with horns than a 4" driver up above the dash... 

Kelvin


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Path lengths and sensitivity are the primary reasons for going with a horn setup.


Choose *one path*.....not both.

Unless you're a glutten for punishment and strive on frustration.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

GlasSman said:


> Path lengths and sensitivity are the primary reasons for going with a horn setup.
> 
> 
> Choose *one path*.....not both.
> ...


I'm the latter


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Eric Stevens said:


> For what you are trying to do its all about the path lengths, both l vs r and horn vs midbass. If you are building a one seater you can use delays to get everything working together.
> 
> A small driver you can mount on the dash isnt going to have the efficiency of the midbass or the horns and will become your weak link for volume and dynamics.
> 
> ...


Obviously it's a pain in the ass to build/calculate, but putting small midranges *in* the horn can get the efficiency up quite high. JBL is using 2" midranges on some of their concert boxes now:










Here's a pic of Keele with one of these boxes. This box has seven drivers in it. Obviously, too big to fit under the dash, but if you ditch the midbasses you can get the size down small enough that it will. (70% of the box volume is for the midbasses.) The box is 23" wide by 8" tall by 10" deep. I've crammed horns that are 20" wide by 4" tall by 16" deep under my dash. So, yeah, a bit too big but not beyond the realm of possibility. This JBL box does 75hz to 18khz and a pair will hit 142dB.

http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/JBL_VT4886_v3.pdf


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