# Orion,PPI or Phoenix Gold!?



## MadAxeMan (Oct 3, 2014)

Hey Everyone! In the next couple months I will be getting a different vehicle and I'm planning a new install using a Clarion HX-D3 head unit and Hybrid Audio Legatia SE components(running active) for the front stage and a clarus 15 for a sub stage. Now since discovering OldSchoolStereo.com a little over a year ago and this website well I' ve been pretty hooked on this old gear. What brings me to the point of this thread is I would like to get some opinions from people for what amps I should use. Now I obviously want the amps to be old school (pre 1996) and I'd like to know from these 3 brands Orion, PPI and Phoenix Gold which brand and which lines of amps would be the best for sound quality.

Plan to be using 4 amps, 1 for tweeters, 1 the mid range ,1 for mid bass, and one for the sub. 

Thanks any input is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

Sound quality will be a hard argument with those names, i would say the quality between Orion, PPI, Rockford Fosgate, Phoenix Gold and even Xtant back when they all made products in the U.S.A. was pretty equal. I think it more comes down to looks and power numbers. 

I personally have run all the above except for Rockford amps, but I do have a soft spot for the Power 1000 still to this day. I am currently running all Phoenix Gold Outlaw and Bandits which is equal to 3 M50s and 1 M100, this gives me about 75x6 plus about 450x1 at 4 ohms at 14V. Remember that older amps are usually unregulated and will perform better with a higher voltage, an upgraded alternator is a must (capacitors and batteries will not get the job done).

Finally remember that old school amps are just that, old. They WILL require work to keep them running like new. Old school amps are cool and fun and a great way to drive around with part of your youth. Good luck and I am interested in seeing what you decide on.


----------



## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I have experience with PG and PPI. I love them both. I have used old PPI stuff (grey PC series) without any updates and they work as well as they did off the showroom in the mid 90s. Old PG amps require the replacement of the power supply caps before use (or verify it was done, and properly) but I feel that the PG amps look better and give a better sound quality (although I'm sure hats haut because at that time people all said that PG had better sq).

I always wanted orion, and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

If you go with PPI, remember that the art series did not have built crossovers, so if going active you'll need a good active xover, and it'll need to be 4 way. The PC series came with a great built in crossover, but you still might want to run an active xover still as I'm not sure of the band pass capabilities.

If you go with PG, you can do the MS or MPS series but prepare to pay a pretty dollar for them. The MS2125 is great, again with no crossover, but they go for a lot. Same for the MPs2500. There's also the ZPA series (my choice) but they also don't have a crossover (unless you get it with a crossover card but I hear that those were unreliable).

So then let's talk 4 way active crossovers. PG makes the AX406a and ppi makes one as well (frx456?). I'm sure there are others out there, but don't know if you want it all to match.

*there is an art series amp ax606 that has built in crossover but is 6 channels and I think ax404 that is 4 channels, but they are rare and from what I hear the crossovers are not the best.


----------



## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

vwdave said:


> I have experience with PG and PPI. I love them both. I have used old PPI stuff (grey PC series) without any updates and they work as well as they did off the showroom in the mid 90s. Old PG amps require the replacement of the power supply caps before use (or verify it was done, and properly) but I feel that the PG amps look better and give a better sound quality (although I'm sure hats haut because at that time people all said that PG had better sq).
> 
> I always wanted orion, and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
> 
> ...


The Ax606.2 is a A404.2 for channels 1,2,3,4 and a ProArt50 for channels 5,6. 
The built in crossover is an FRX-456 and all adjustment knobs including three gain controls are on the face of the heatsink.
Doesn't get much better than that for OS. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## MadAxeMan (Oct 3, 2014)

Well I do realize the amps I'm after are old and do require care and definitely service. Electrical upgrades (alternator etc.) are the first things that would be done first because well these are all class a/b amps. Crossovers I'm not concerned with seeing how the hx-d3 is pretty much designed for running a fully active system and ill be setting the crossover points accordingly. As for looks.. well yet another reason why I'm going old school.

Some of the lines I was considering are (if i can find them) Orion NTs for the front stage and a good old XTR(the beast) for a sub stage. I know the challenge with NT's would be getting the balanced crossovers, eq's and mini xlr's if I want the most out of those amps. That would be best case, but I would want a good alternative to that in case I cant get those like Orion SX line (2nd gen).

Now I don't know too much about PPI and Phoenix gold other than they're stunning to look at but I do want to know is there a huge difference in sq between PPI's Promos line vs ART vs Mosfet power series? 

With Phoenix gold is there a huge difference between M, MS and the MPS line? 

Thanks for the input guys really appreciate it!


----------



## Dawgless (Oct 6, 2014)

I do have to say I have a soft spot for the old Orion's. For a period of time, I had a 425 HCCA and the 250r HCCA. I had the 425 running the front soundstage and the rear fill in my old M3, and the 250 running a pair of RF HX2 DVC 10's in a sealed box. The front components were Hertz, with a set of new Orion XRT separates in the rear deck. That was about the best system I've ever listened to. The HCCA's are awesome to look at and have power for days. I ran the 250r at 1ohm bridges and never had issues with thermal shutdown. It would take loads of abuse and keep on producing pure clean music. 

Alas, I didn't have any experience with the PG products, but I do know that the MS series is going to have higher per channel wattage than the MPS line, but the MPS line is designed to driver lower impedance loads than the MS. 

I had a PPI Art 404 for a period of time and I loved that amp. Too bad I have it to a cousin... :-(


----------



## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

I'll let you know first hand it a couple of weeks, but it's still subjective. I currently run all orion hcca's, a 275r 250r and 150r. I'm pulling these to run an assortment of phoenix gold ms amps. I think another on your list should be the old kicker amps too. I had a pair in my last car and they are fantastic.


----------



## lostthumb (Dec 16, 2005)

In the past, I have used the PPI Arts and PC series. They were great amps but I did not care for the terminal plugs.

I have also used the Phoenix golds MS and M series. They are also great but many will need service for leaking caps now.


----------



## MCLSOUND (Oct 21, 2011)

PM sent


----------

