# PPIs new PC 65C3 3 way Components just came in



## Big T

Just to let everyone know, these won't actually be out till around the first to mid Feb. they sent me the 2 pair they had a CES. I haven't gotten them installed but I will try to get a set playing in my wife's car this weekend. Here is some pics tho.


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## edzyy

Very Nice


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## Big T

The mid bass has a cast basket and a smaller phase plug than the last gen. It also has spring terminals for the speaker wires. The mid has a stamped steel basket and standard terminals. Both have removable grills

The tweeter is the pride of the system. It is an AMT (air motion transformer). These are used in high end home systems but have never been used in car audio. They will play up to 40k which I know you can not hear with the human ear but it is said to cause the system to sound more accurate in the fact that in real music there are frequencies above 20k, even tho you can't heat them they give depth and with. Something you can not so much hear as sense. 
Can't wait to get them playing. Ryan at PPI is convinced they are the best components on the market. And I think the price will be around 500.00 or less


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## rton20s

While I certainly don't buy in to much of their marketing nonsense, I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on these once they've had a chance to give them a good listen. I look forward to seeing what you think after you get them installed.


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## Rogue740

I'd be curious to hear the midrange on this set. I was about to pull the trigger on the PC3.65 set based on the midrange alone. I hope this new set is an all around great performer and not just a good tweeter. Looks like a high end set though, those cones look very nice.


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## thehatedguy

I've used those same AMTs in my car last year...

But never been packaged in a car audio set, yes.


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## FreeTheSound

Anxious to hear your report on these! Glad to see PPI working on the Aesthetics.


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## cajunner

it's not my call, but I would rather pay 515 bucks for the addition of cast frame midranges over the 500 on stamped steel, but that's just me.


otherwise, these look nice.

I don't know about that ring of what looks like plastic covering the space where the voice coil former attaches to the cone, as being of any benefit other than enhanced aesthetics, but I am pretty sure you could fudge up a speaker with the wrong filler material.

maybe it's butyl, and acts to actually damp something in the former/cone junction but if it's a cosmetic addition that contributes nothing to the sound...

dammit, why do I gotta go and get all pessimistic on these things...


they look good, they got a good company name on 'em and I'm sure people will dig on that punchy tweeter.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Where are you at in Arkansas? I'd love to give this set a listen once you get them installed and dialed in.

Chris


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## JCJetta

Eager to read the results and opinions; I have the previous gen currently, and I'm pleased as punch with them.


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## thehatedguy

I really like the tweeter mounting.


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## thehatedguy

You guys will love the tweeter. I replaced Scan Illuminators with some and never looked back.


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## Big T

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Where are you at in Arkansas? I'd love to give this set a listen once you get them installed and dialed in.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris



Camden. South arkansas


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## killerb87

thehatedguy said:


> You guys will love the tweeter. I replaced Scan Illuminators with some and never looked back.


Now that's a statement.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Big T said:


> Camden. South arkansas


I'm in the Little Rock area towards Lake Maumelle. You ever in Little Rock?


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## robtr8

So whos AMT is it?


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## Big T

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm in the Little Rock area towards Lake Maumelle. You ever in Little Rock?



Yes. Quite a bit. I was at all the TCA shows last year


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## Big T

OK got the set for my wife's car installed, still have to play with the mids to get them mounted correctly and get the moles plugs on the tweets.

All I can say is holy crap these are smooth. The highs are crisp. I thought the mids were slightly lacking but we had turned them down on the HU for the old ones. So much smoother than the last generation of PPI 3ways. I am still on the old tune and can't wait to here them when properly tuned. I can tell I need to change the cover points between the mid bass and mids.


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## frankc6

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the old set until I saw these on the net last night. I''ll be checking in to see your review. How big is the tweeter and does it have any other mounting options? Looks pretty large to mount in an a-pillar.


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## Big T

frankc6 said:


> I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the old set until I saw these on the net last night. I''ll be checking in to see your review. How big is the tweeter and does it have any other mounting options? Looks pretty large to mount in an a-pillar.



It fit perfectly where the old tweeter was. Your right, it looked huge. I kept thinking I was going to have to enlarge the hole but it's the same size and their older one.



Tweeter 
5/8" depth (wiring comes out the back so you gave to account for that to)
1 7/8" cutout

Mid
Depth 1 13/16"
Cutout 2 9/16"
Outside dia without grill 3 1/2"
With grill 3 11/16"


Mid bass
Depth 3"
Cutout appx 5 9/16"
Outside Dia without grill appx 6 1/2"
Outside dia with grill appx 6 5/8"


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## frankc6

Is the mounting depth the same as well? Thanks.


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## Big T

frankc6 said:


> Is the mounting depth the same as well? Thanks.



I'll try to remember to check tonight


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## Big T

Big T said:


> I'll try to remember to check tonight



New tweeter 5/8" depth plus wire out the back 

Old tweeter 3/4" plus wire


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## Rogue740

What kind of car are they installed in, factory 3-way?


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## Big T

Rogue740 said:


> What kind of car are they installed in, factory 3-way?



2012 Nissan Sentra. Factory 2 way

6.5 in OEM door location
Mids in OEM dash location
Tweeters in a pilers

I have a DEQ 8 so I am running all active so I didn't get to try the crossovers.


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## Rogue740

I think I've found the next setup for my X5, if the price comes down a bit. Probably go with the old Power Class 3-way set for now.


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## newtitan

Wish the mid magnet was neo, for depth purposes, that magnet looks pretty big for pillar rebuilds. 

I'll try a set when released that's for sure


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## Big T

newtitan said:


> Wish the mid magnet was neo, for depth purposes, that magnet looks pretty big for pillar rebuilds.
> 
> I'll try a set when released that's for sure



If you pull the rubber cover off the magnet it's not that much larger than the old ones.. Depth that is. The diameter of the magnet is larger than the diameter of the old ones


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## chesapeakesoja

Interesting. Sub'd for further findings.


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## bkjay

Any updates Big T.


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## Big T

Haven't gotten to go tune the car yet. Got en installed in the truck but not playing yet.
They spunk unbelivable in the car without being tuned.


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## Notloudenuf

Big T said:


> They spunk unbelivable in the car without being tuned.


that's a damn fine autocorrect right there


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## vulgamore89

I kinda want to try these in my truck when they come out. But I have no idea where I'd out the mids...


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## Big T

Notloudenuf said:


> that's a damn fine autocorrect right there



Oops. Sound


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## frankc6

how do these sound compared to the older series?


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## Big T

frankc6 said:


> how do these sound compared to the older series?



No comparison. A lot crisper highs and cleaner mids. Night and day better. I loved the older ones till I heard these.


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## Rogue740

Everyone praised the mids in the older set, are the new mids that much better?


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## Big T

I think they are. I am hoping to get far enough in the install to get it tuned so I can really get a chance to see what they do. But they do sound a lot smoother to me.


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## EricP72

Sub


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## Big T

I was told the shipment is in at PPI and they will be shipping soon..


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## Rogue740

The website was updated too with prices for all of the New 2014 products.

$350 MSRP sounds pretty good.


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## Big T

Yea killer price for these


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## 1fishman

Any update? 

Does anyone no where the crossover are set at on the passive XO's, or the best frequency responses of these drivers?


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## 1fishman

Is there a manual with the specs of the drivers? love to know how low the midrange goes.


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## Big T

I run mine active and have them crossed at 350 and 4.5k


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## GTOhaas07

Any pictures of the install?


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## vulgamore89

Would the tweeters be able to be mounted in a PVC end cap to use in the pillars do you think? What mounting hardware comes with it for the tweets?


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## teldzc1

Do those amt do okay off axis or do they have to point straight at you?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## Big T

teldzc1 said:


> Do those amt do okay off axis or do they have to point straight at you?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk



They are great off axis but only left right, or up down depending on which way you point the grill.


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## Darth SQ

Big T said:


> They are great off axis but only left right, or up down depending on which way you point the grill.


Wait.....what? 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## 1fishman

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Wait.....what?
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


"They are great off axis but only left right, or up down depending on which way you point the grill."
 :worried: :surprised: :blush:  
Oh good! I thought it was me.

How many times did you read it? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Darth SQ

1fishman said:


> :worried::surprised::blush::laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Oh good! I thought it was me.
> 
> How many times did you read it?


Three.
The only axis missing in that sentence is in/out. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## whitedragon551

1fishman said:


> "They are great off axis but only left right, or up down depending on which way you point the grill."
> :worried::surprised::blush::laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Oh good! I thought it was me.
> 
> How many times did you read it?





PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Three.
> The only axis missing in that sentence is in/out.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Since every axis was covered except for 1, I think its safe to say he thinks they sound terrible no matter what.


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## edouble101

Big T said:


> They are great off axis but only left right, or up down depending on which way you point the grill.


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## vulgamore89

im confused.....or was there sarcasm there? 

but seriously what mounting options do they come with? or could you fit the tweeter in a pvc end cap?


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## Big T

It's hard to explain. The tweeters have a wide dispersion, but not a tall one. If you rotate the tweeter it will have a tall but not wide dispersion pattern. If you look at the grill you can see kinda what I'm talking about. 

For mounting the outside of the housing is threaded and it comes with a lock nut to attach it. In my truck I mounted them in PVC fittings and drilled and tapped it for set screws to hold them


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## teldzc1

That sounds like typical ribbon dispersion. It will only be as tall as the ribbon is. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## teldzc1

Thank you, by the way, for posting all of this and answering our questions. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## req

Big T said:


> Just to let everyone know, these won't actually be out till around the first to mid Feb. they sent me the 2 pair they had a CES. I haven't gotten them installed but I will try to get a set playing in my wife's car this weekend. Here is some pics tho.


i fixed that post for you. please copy\paste above into your first post as not using [RETURNS] after IMG ruins the horizontal formatting of the forum. oh my god.


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## cajunner

square ribbons do not suffer from the vertical narrowing, the latest LCY were built to improve on this issue, and therefore not all ribbon tweeters are subject to "ribbon tweeter sound" that is dependent on vertical dispersion being an issue.


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## subwoofery

cajunner said:


> square ribbons do not suffer from the vertical narrowing, the latest LCY were built to improve on this issue, and therefore not all ribbon tweeters are subject to "ribbon tweeter sound" that is dependent on vertical dispersion being an issue.


Exactly what I was thinking... Who knows  

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

I never had that problem with the AMTs I had...they were square, so didn't matter which way the grill was oriented.


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## Big T

I asked Ryan to explain it


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## cajunner

something I find interesting is how narrow ribbons achieve line array decay phenomenon, when they are just a couple of inches or so high, and 1/4" wide.


the theory (I'm guessing) is that the sound energy that would be directed above and below the actual polar response pattern, is then able to double up, or reinforce the main signal's focused energy.


sort of how a Sausalito lens adds gain, too.

any time you're directing acoustic energy in a way that limits the response in a direction, the other directions get a boost.

this may be why ribbons can get really loud, with so little radiating area.


I'd like to try the Peavey VersArray 1.6 ribbons, in a vehicle as I think they would be able to keep up with just about anything, but aiming them without them being invasive into the car's environment or aesthetics, would be an exercise.


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## pjf1fan

I wonder if this would work well in a 2006 VW Jetta front door. There's a factory 3-way setup in there now. I plan on going active with a JBL MS8.


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## [email protected]

Ok guys....let me clear this subject up a bit. Ed did a great job in trying to explain it but here is the skinny...

So the AMT has a few advantages that most CAR AUDIO tweeters don't. 
1. Frequency response is much better out to 40kHz. Yeah yeah I know we cant hear it but what it does do is create a dynamic that a typical tweeter can give you. 
2. Off axis response is just crazy. It works well in any location, what Ed was trying to explain was that the grill itself has (in factory default) Horizontal lines in it creating a horizontal dispersion pattern of 180 degrees out and 180 degrees up. I have frequency response models that showed this was the best overall performance. It was very natural and flat at this angle. If for some odd reason this doesn't work you just spin the tweeter till you get the sound stage your looking for. In most cases this won't need to happen. 

Now some other fun things about this set:
1. The mid and woofer use a natural unprocessed cotton fiber. This is one of the reasons they sounds so natural. We could have used kevlar,or woven fiber cone, but they just don't have the right sound and everyone else is doing it. We wanted something no one has ever seen or used before. 
2. We use a huge motor on the woofer for better mid bass response without any distortion. 
3. All the drivers are high bandwidth drivers for a better cohesive response. Inf act it is hard to tell the difference in the music, the drivers all blend so well that they sound like one driver instead of three. 
4. We use only the highest quality components in the crossover. 

Oh and yeah if this doesn't make you want to try them, then ask any of the IASCA judges what they thought when they gave Ed and his wife 1st Place National Champion trophies at SBN 2014. Ed has the highest score of the event as well. And his wife did it with dear damage!


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## vulgamore89

do you think these would press fit into a PVC end cap like in this thread?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...justable-easily-replaceable-tweeter-pods.html

really debating on going with these for my new build


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## Big T

I am doing so work on mine and will be taking them out to play with placement a little so I will see how they fit if you can give me a day or two


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## Big T

Thanks Ryan


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## Big T

This is a 1 1/2 PVC fitting. It's a little loose but you could use a set screw to tighten it. Or maybe wrap some tape around the tweeter to shim it.
Also they didn't have any CPVC fittings but that might be tighter.


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## [email protected]

I don't see why that wouldn't work


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## [email protected]

pjf1fan said:


> I wonder if this would work well in a 2006 VW Jetta front door. There's a factory 3-way setup in there now. I plan on going active with a JBL MS8.


Im sure it would be awesome.


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## Wooptido

Hey Guys! Thanks for the great info! I ordered a set of these last week. I would like to pick up a better amp to go with them. I was thinking about a Soundstream Ref 4.760 or Possibly the PPI PC640.4... If I can still get either one. Any thoughts? 
This will be going in my Sequoia.


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## Big T

Either would be great... If you can't get the PowerClass or Refrence the PPI Phantom P900.4 will work quite well. I run the Power Class on them in my wife's car and the phantom on them in my truck and both sound great


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## Wooptido

Thanks Big T!


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## Darth SQ

I am going to post this in all the related threads so please forgive me if you've already read this. 
This post is for anyone that is using the PPI PC3.65C 3way set that I am using.
And before anyone asks, I don't know if the following applies to the new set with the AMT tweeter.
Before installation, I always test speaker operation to confirm everything's working properly.
During this test, I discovered that the 2.5 midrange is 180 out of phase from the factory.
It's that way on all four sets I own so it's not a one time production line mistake. 
I called up my friend Grizz Archer who when working at Epsilon (PPI) designed this 3way set to see what he had to say.
He confirmed that what I found was correct and the reason for it was because of the way the passive crossover that comes with the set operates.
He said the phase flip was purposefully designed in because the majority of consumers don't read the installation directions and would've wired the mid wrong.
Now why this is important is because if you are going to run the 3way set active like I am, the wiring on the mid needs to be flipped to get it back in phase. 
The easiest way to tell a speaker's status is to use a 1.5 volt battery (my preference) and send positive to positive and negative to negative which will move the cone forward if it's correct.
I got a little into the weeds with this but it seemed like something that needed to be posted.
So always check your speakers before installation. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## vulgamore89

how would people wire the mids wrong?


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## Wooptido

Thanks for bringing this up Bret! Running passive right now but I probably wouldn't have tested and just assumed...


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## Darth SQ

vulgamore89 said:


> how would people wire the mids wrong?


The small tab is positive and the large one is negative. 
The wiring harness that comes with it has the small connector marked as negative so that way you can't "f" it up.
You'd never know the mid was out of phase on purpose.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ

Wooptido said:


> Thanks for bringing this up Bret! Running passive right now but I probably wouldn't have tested and just assumed...


Welcome. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Big T

That is correct, On the older set, If using an active crossover you have to wire is backwards of what is shown on the speaker. if using the supplied crossover you will go by the markings on the speaker. 
The issue was the terminals on the crossover for the mid was backwards, so the mis would have wired diffrent from everything else there. Grizz knew everyone wouldnt look and just hook it up and get it backwards.

On the new ones that isnt supposed to be an issue but I will double check them and post the results...


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## [email protected]

You are correct the new ones do not have that issue.


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## heyhi

Hey guys. Im really interested in these speakers but I have a few questions. ..seeing how advanced you guys are you might think they're dumb lol. Anyway 

What else can I add to these to sound good. Im thinking about getting the p900.4 to power them up. My headunit is pioneer p1400pdvd. Has a few bells and whistles but only a 8 band equalizer.
Reading this I saw someone say he has to tune it more. What else besides this amp/speaker/headunit setup would I need?
another question is I have nowhere seen , and I searched, the rms rating for these components. Anyone know?

And 3.. in 02 maxima....tweeters located on pillar by windshield. ...6.5 on door ....where would be a good location for the smaller speaker?


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## [email protected]

You can always get our DEQ.8. It is a digital DSP. It has a 31 band per/channel eq and full 4-way crossover control. A lot of our guys use this processor.


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## heyhi

[email protected] said:


> You can always get our DEQ.8. It is a digital DSP. It has a 31 band per/channel eq and full 4-way crossover control. A lot of our guys use this processor.


I looked into that. ..are there anymore options.. I'm pretty new to tuning . 
What about mid location?


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## Big T

They don't require more tuning that other speakers. It was likly me you saw say that and it was because I was getting ready for Spring Break Nationals and had a friend who was going to tune for me..I can tune for a everyday ride but not for competition. You would be fine with what you have. But the DEQ8 is a lot of fun.. Also with the DEQ8 you should be able to time it so you don't need a center.

Also I understand the DSP 88R will be out soon wich will be a less expensive solution to the DEQ-8...DSP-88R - Signal Processors - Accessories - Products


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## 1fishman

heyhi said:


> I looked into that. ..are there anymore options.. I'm pretty new to tuning .
> What about mid location?


It's not really related to this thread but...

The DSP-88r appears to be available now. (i see a few vendors have it) Not sure how it will perform being brand new, but it is a good bit less cash than the DEQ.8 
A head Unit like the Pioneer PRS80 has a nice DSP built in and not too hard to use.

"What about mid location?" not sure what this means.


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## Big T

1fishman said:


> It's not really related to this thread but...
> 
> The DSP-88r appears to be available now. (i see a few vendors have it) Not sure how it will perform being brand new, but it is a good bit less cash than the DEQ.8
> A head Unit like the Pioneer PRS80 has a nice DSP built in and not too hard to use.
> 
> "What about mid location?" not sure what this means.


As I understand it from my conversation with Ryan last week, the DSP-88R is in the warehouse at PPI but hasnt shipped so no one has it in stock yet. They arnt sure exactly when it will ship.


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## Big T

Hey Hi, The Mids would work Great in the A-piller if you can get it there, Hoever it will work nicelt in the door . the higher the better.. Sorry I read it wrong before and thought you said center instead of mid..


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## Darth SQ

heyhi said:


> Hey guys. Im really interested in these speakers but I have a few questions. ..seeing how advanced you guys are you might think they're dumb lol. Anyway
> 
> What else can I add to these to sound good. Im thinking about getting the p900.4 to power them up. My headunit is pioneer p1400pdvd. Has a few bells and whistles but only a 8 band equalizer.
> Reading this I saw someone say he has to tune it more. What else besides this amp/speaker/headunit setup would I need?
> another question is I have nowhere seen , and I searched, the rms rating for these components. Anyone know?
> 
> And 3.. in 02 maxima....tweeters located on pillar by windshield. ...6.5 on door ....where would be a good location for the smaller speaker?





heyhi said:


> I looked into that. ..are there anymore options.. I'm pretty new to tuning .
> What about mid location?





1fishman said:


> It's not really related to this thread but...
> 
> The DSP-88r appears to be available now. (i see a few vendors have it) Not sure how it will perform being brand new, but it is a good bit less cash than the DEQ.8
> A head Unit like the Pioneer PRS80 has a nice DSP built in and not too hard to use.
> 
> "What about mid location?" not sure what this means.


In reference to where his stock speaker locations, he wants you guys to tell him where the mid should go.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Grizz Archer

[email protected] said:


> You are correct the new ones do not have that issue.


There was a very good reason for doing this. This was the first time a crossover was designed that could switch from 2-way to 3-way mode with a simple push of a button. Without getting too deep, by making the terminals backwards, it made them dummy-proof. If a crossover is marked +-+-+- vs +--++-, how many people actually read the manual and correct for phase? Probably none. I admit it was an experiment, but it worked flawlessly. We never received a single call regarding poor SQ. In fact, the 3-way set far outsold the 2-way set. There were no tech calls that required the advice to swap the phase on the midrange. Any professional installer or educated DIYer will check the phase anyway. Cannot remember a time in the last million years that I did not check the phase of a driver...

Anyway, this was a weird idea that I had and it worked perfectly. Especially since the last couple tech support guys (not Ryan) never spent a second working in a shop and could not troubleshoot anything. If I were going to make another 3-way x-over, or a convertible one like the PPI, I would definitely do it again...


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## Darth SQ

Grizz Archer said:


> There was a very good reason for doing this. This was the first time a crossover was designed that could switch from 2-way to 3-way mode with a simple push of a button. Without getting too deep, by making the terminals backwards, it made them dummy-proof. If a crossover is marked +-+-+- vs +--++-, how many people actually read the manual and correct for phase? Probably none. I admit it was an experiment, but it worked flawlessly. We never received a single call regarding poor SQ. In fact, the 3-way set far outsold the 2-way set. There were no tech calls that required the advice to swap the phase on the midrange. Any professional installer or educated DIYer will check the phase anyway. Cannot remember a time in the last million years that I did not check the phase of a driver...
> 
> Anyway, this was a weird idea that I had and it worked perfectly. Especially since the last couple tech support guys (not Ryan) never spent a second working in a shop and could not troubleshoot anything. If I were going to make another 3-way x-over, or a convertible one like the PPI, I would definitely do it again...


Nothing like getting right to the source. 
Thanks for clearing it all up. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## beanbearo

Is it worth using a Soundstream PN4.520D to drive these (CDT CL-6Msub's will be in the rear doors)? I was considering A2.65c's up front, but this set sounds pretty amazing. 

It's an '07 Honda Element with the stock system. So I'm also trying to figure out some mid and tweeter placement. I'm not quite sure how to mount the mid (or the tweeter, if you guys think that's better) on the upper door. I think that mid is too deep.


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## [email protected]

beanbearo said:


> Is it worth using a Soundstream PN4.520D to drive these (CDT CL-6Msub's will be in the rear doors)? I was considering A2.65c's up front, but this set sounds pretty amazing.
> 
> It's an '07 Honda Element with the stock system. So I'm also trying to figure out some mid and tweeter placement. I'm not quite sure how to mount the mid (or the tweeter, if you guys think that's better) on the upper door. I think that mid is too deep.


I use the PN4.520D in my Jeep running the new RC.6 Reference components all active and it is just awesome. I do have a Synthesis in the system for tuning of course. (Grizz would be proud of the outcome)


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## beanbearo

Ryan, Grizz, et al: what are the crossover points on supplied crossover? 

Might later run it active on an 80prs, but would likely run it passive for now.


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## [email protected]

You know Grizz might know the answer to that better than I. But him and I did play a lot with different crossover points. We also discovered one day that the mid will play out to 20k effectively.


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## Darth SQ

[email protected] said:


> You know Grizz might know the answer to that better than I. But him and I did play a lot with different crossover points. We also discovered one day that the mid will play out to 20k effectively.


It's a wickedly brilliant mid in many ways and so easy to mount literally anywhere.

Ryan, I'll never understand why Epsilon dropped it.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## rton20s

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Ryan, I'll never understand why Epsilon dropped it.


I have my theories...

$


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## [email protected]

Because the set we made this time around is done form the ground up and is a night and day difference from the other one. It really has to be heard to understand. We did many first in the new set....and the old ones were an off the shelf open tooling component set. The news ones are built by one of the finest factories in the industry. Even Grizz would approve these ones....after all they were designed in collaboration by Epsilon and one of his best friends.


----------



## [email protected]

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> It's a wickedly brilliant mid in many ways and so easy to mount literally anywhere.
> 
> Ryan, I'll never understand why Epsilon dropped it.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


It is but the new one is 100% better. You have to hear them to believe me. Ask some of the guys on here running them. They love them. They won a ton of awards already and they just came 3 months ago.


----------



## Grizz Archer

beanbearo said:


> Ryan, Grizz, et al: what are the crossover points on supplied crossover?
> 
> Might later run it active on an 80prs, but would likely run it passive for now.


Not sure, I have not worked there in nearly 2 years. The new set is 100% different than the set I did, in every way. So I have no idea. Only Ryan knows.


----------



## Grizz Archer

[email protected] said:


> You know Grizz might know the answer to that better than I. But him and I did play a lot with different crossover points. We also discovered one day that the mid will play out to 20k effectively.


Oh, if he was talking about the old set, then the xovers are 400Hz & 4kHz. I thought this thread was about the new ones. 

Regarding the mid playing out to 20kHz. A frequency response graph does not yield anything I would call effective. Sure, I played with them without a tweeter, and I have seen people compete like that. But I still think it is foolish. Playing around to see the limits of a driver in a sound room is one thing, and looking at a frequency graph tells you what a MIC HEARS, not what humans hear. A mic has no judge of character, or relationship to space or density or "airiness". I still stand by my 2.5" and other "high end" companies have even back-doored it out of China and put their sticker on it. But it is still a midrange. If I could have gotten it to sound properly in my vehicle without the tweeter, I would have left it that way, just to be different and have something to talk about. But imho, it sounded like every other widebander that was being pushed to do something it does not do well. The set came with a tweeter for a reason. Tweeters always have been necessary and I am guessing they always will be. They do not ned to play crazy high frequencies or anything like that rubbish, but they do need to play to 18kHz or so, maybe even a little lower, but that is a just my opinion. I am not a 12 year old girl that can hear 20kHz, but I can whine like one if I do not have a cold beer when I want one.


----------



## Grizz Archer

rton20s said:


> I have my theories...
> 
> $


Oh, please! Do tell! The suspense is killing me buddy!


----------



## Grizz Archer

[email protected] said:


> It is but the new one is 100% better. You have to hear them to believe me. Ask some of the guys on here running them. They love them. They won a ton of awards already and they just came 3 months ago.


Ok, Ryan, I'll bite... What makes them "100% better"? That is a huge statement. You know I love to learn and appreciate technology. And now I am sure everybody will want to know what makes them 100% better. I
m honestly not combating you man, just want to know what can make one speaker 100% better than a speaker that people already loved and copied. It's all in the interest of learning...


----------



## hot9dog

I do not have first hand knowledge of the new 3 way set... but my first revision PPI 3 ways have been in my car for over a year now and i have never have had a moment's regret with them. Took awhile to tune them actively, but the soundstage they produce are perfect for my tastes.


----------



## Grizz Archer

[email protected] said:


> Because the set we made this time around is done form the ground up and is a night and day difference from the other one. It really has to be heard to understand. We did many first in the new set....and the old ones were an off the shelf open tooling component set. The news ones are built by one of the finest factories in the industry. Even Grizz would approve these ones....after all they were designed in collaboration by Epsilon and one of his best friends.


Now now now, this is not true. Granted, the tweeter is a Focal tweeter, from what I heard. I knew it was close, but from what I understand, it is identical, not just a clone. However, I cannot confirm that. 

The midbass came as a sample, but I modified the suspension and if you look at the Soundstream, you will see that both are modified from the original sample. They looked similar, but they worked altogether different. And the SS had an entirely different tweeter with metal dome and silk surround. Both sets were tailored to what I was looking for - an old school bright MB Quart-ish sound for PPIm, and a smoother, more natural sound for Soundstream. You should have enough data on my old laptop to easily notice this. 

The midrange was new, so I am not sure how you can state that it was off the shelf when I tooled that basket to match the 6.5" midbass basket because I was not willing to use a cheap steel basket. The 2.5" was by no means off the shelf. Maybe you were told something different. Call Jefferey - he will verify this if you were advised otherwise.

That was the old set... Regarding the new set. Yes, I know the guy who made the new set for Epsilon. But to say that the new ones are from the ground up is not entirely true either. We both know that the AMT tweeter was available before you or my friend put the set together. My guess is Brandon found it on Alibaba like I did, and where anybody can buy it. It certainly is nothing new, just not done in car audio until Epsilon, so yes, that is a first. There are probably reasons for this that do not need to be discussed. 

Ryan, when posts from "unmentionable" people were made, I never said anything as it is not my place, and frankly, I do not care. Plus, I rather enjoyed and was entertained by reading his fables. But when an employee criticizes my work, with false statements, I feel I am allowed to set the record straight. 

All of that being said, people come here to learn, myself included. There are some very smart and educated members on here. This is a place for facts. If I come out here and belittle somebody, some product, or make my opinion seem like a fact... Well, I just do not want to look like a self-righteous person. 

I saw the new components at CES. I did not hear them, obviously. But I will not go on record for approving anything that I have not heard. Sure the factory guy is my buddy, but I never once used him for anything but subs, regardless of all the samples he sent me. I have good reasons for this. Maybe they are awesome, maybe they are not. Please do not say that I would approve. You and I have very, very different taste in what is acceptable and what sounds good. Not saying either one of us is right or wrong because it is subjective and irrelevant. But I will admit that most of what I developed went against the grain because nobody really agreed/understood me.


----------



## beanbearo

Grizz Archer said:


> Oh, if he was talking about the old set, then the xovers are 400Hz & 4kHz. I thought this thread was about the new ones.


Yup, I did mean the new ones. 

I'm new to this world; the most I've done is simple OEM -> aftermarket speaker swaps, but am very interested in learning more starting with an install (maybe) around this set.


----------



## 1fishman

Big T said:


> As I understand it from my conversation with Ryan last week, the DSP-88R is in the warehouse at PPI but hasnt shipped so no one has it in stock yet. They arnt sure exactly when it will ship.



I guess they still haven't shipped. 
I ordered one last week, and finally got the a "back ordered" email today from onlinecarstereo (7 days later) at the price it's hard not to give it a try. But the waiting...


----------



## [email protected]

Yeah guys they are in our warehouse....we CANNOT ship them yet. They were shipped with the wrong harness from the factory. We are waiting on the new harnesses so we can swap and ship out very soon.


----------



## [email protected]

Grizz Im not bashing your work or the things you have done. In fact without you we wouldn't have some of the cool things that we do. Im sorry if it came off like that. 

There are people on here that have way to much free time and like to instigate. So sorry dude if it came off like that. I am extremely happy for you by the way, I think where you landed finally should be the best years of your career. I don't think you could have found a finer match man. That job is tailored to you and your style, good luck!


----------



## Grizz Archer

[email protected] said:


> Grizz Im not bashing your work or the things you have done. In fact without you we wouldn't have some of the cool things that we do. Im sorry if it came off like that.
> 
> There are people on here that have way to much free time and like to instigate. So sorry dude if it came off like that. I am extremely happy for you by the way, I think where you landed finally should be the best years of your career. I don't think you could have found a finer match man. That job is tailored to you and your style, good luck!


Thanx Ryan. Very cool of you to say that. I'm gonna PM you. Have a private question...


----------



## rton20s

Grizz Archer said:


> Thanx Ryan. Very cool of you to say that. I'm gonna PM you. Have a private question...


I don't know Ryan's qualifications... but you might want to consult a doctor.


----------



## Grizz Archer

rton20s said:


> I don't know Ryan's qualifications... but you might want to consult a doctor.


Lol Better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass.


----------



## ricren

[email protected] said:


> Yeah guys they are in our warehouse....we CANNOT ship them yet. They were shipped with the wrong harness from the factory. We are waiting on the new harnesses so we can swap and ship out very soon.



Hi Ryan, when are you guys going to upload to the PPI site the complete information about the 88R? There's just an overview there.

There's no manual to be downloaded, and not a single mention about the software control GUI.There's only an snapshot of the main page, I can not figure it out how do you sum L+R to get the sub signal, etc.
I think it's a nice product but the relevant information is not there.


----------



## Darth SQ

What you said about Grizz was really cool. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## 1fishman

ricren said:


> Hi Ryan, when are you guys going to upload to the PPI site the complete information about the 88R? There's just an overview there.
> 
> There's no manual to be downloaded, and not a single mention about the software control GUI.There's only an snapshot of the main page, I can not figure it out how do you sum L+R to get the sub signal, etc.
> I think it's a nice product but the relevant information is not there.


Xs2
The manual on the web site would be nice.


----------



## Wooptido

BTW guys... I was able to get a REF4.760 to go with my P65c3 set. Man they really sound good! Glad you started this thread Big T!


----------



## Big T

I am glad I was able to get the word out.


----------



## [email protected]

What you said about Grizz was really cool. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR[/QUOTE]

Thats because Im not a douche, Im a business man and can appreciate people who make a difference in my field of work. Grizz and I are cool and always will be. 

But guys people move on and things change. Change is good, and we took what he did and stepped it up a notch. We did something no one ever did this year when we developed the new 3-ways. And if it helps anyone sleep better at night. A VERY famous person in car audio who happens to be friends with Grizz helped us develop these speakers. And yes they are awesome, some will say better and some won't. We are all allowed our opinions of things. And again if you don't believe me then try them, if that doesn't work ask the IASCA judges who awarded Ed Rice the highest point total out of any competitor at this years SBN, and he did it with the new speakers. Out scoring his previous score with the older ones. Proof is in the pudding, and yes Grizz's speakers kicked ass and they still do. I used to run them in fact in both of my vehicles. Im not knocking them. But don't make assumptions without trying it first. 

Trust me what Grizz is about to do is going to take the high end guys by storm and I hope it is successful.


----------



## heyhi

Ok I read to about page 4 till my eyes started hurting lol. To anyone running these passive, how do you like them. I really wanna get these.


----------



## hot9dog

[email protected] said:


> Thats because Im not a douche, Im a business man and can appreciate people who make a difference in my field of work. Grizz and I are cool and always will be.
> 
> But guys people move on and things change. Change is good, and we took what he did and stepped it up a notch. We did something no one ever did this year when we developed the new 3-ways. And if it helps anyone sleep better at night. A VERY famous person in car audio who happens to be friends with Grizz helped us develop these speakers. And yes they are awesome, some will say better and some won't. We are all allowed our opinions of things. And again if you don't believe me then try them, if that doesn't work ask the IASCA judges who awarded Ed Rice the highest point total out of any competitor at this years SBN, and he did it with the new speakers. Out scoring his previous score with the older ones. Proof is in the pudding, and yes Grizz's speakers kicked ass and they still do. I used to run them in fact in both of my vehicles. Im not knocking them. But don't make assumptions without trying it first.
> 
> Trust me what Grizz is about to do is going to take the high end guys by storm and I hope it is successful.


Ok Ryan you have my attention , now you have me very curious about the new 3 ways. Very curious. ...


----------



## heyhi

Well since just about every amp from ppi im interested in is out of stock, what would be a good amp for these?


----------



## Big T

What amps were you looking at?


----------



## heyhi

Big T said:


> What amps were you looking at?


I was really wanting the 900.4 but they're sold out. I looked thru the site and most all the amps that would work are sold out. 
I really want these speakers but now I question the product. Its a little weird that the site don't list the rated rms on them plus the fact that so many things are not available. Still thinking about getting them.

What kind of clarity do these speakers have? Are they smooth? Do all the speakers blend well passive? Do ur ears "point you" to a certain area or speaker? Ive only read a few reviews on them and they're good reviews but not enough information on them.


----------



## 1fishman

heyhi said:


> I was really wanting the 900.4 but they're sold out. I looked thru the site and most all the amps that would work are sold out.
> I really want these speakers but now I question the product. Its a little weird that the site don't list the rated rms on them plus the fact that so many things are not available. Still thinking about getting them.
> 
> What kind of clarity do these speakers have? Are they smooth? Do all the speakers blend well passive? Do ur ears "point you" to a certain area or speaker? Ive only read a few reviews on them and they're good reviews but not enough information on them.


There are a few vendors who have the P900.4, actually it looks like just about all their models are still available from one place or another. I just googled them, saw a few on Ebay... (Google the full name)


----------



## Big T

Yea. The 900.4 is what I'm running. I think a lot of places are out of stock on them tho.


----------



## frankc6

You should pick up soundstream reference amp. They are really nice and they've got them marked down pretty good.


----------



## pjf1fan

I second that, the Soundstream Reference series are exemplary. You will be very satisfied.


----------



## Big T

Yes if you can get one. They were discontuined this year tho. Or if you can find a PPI power class, they are about the same


----------



## [email protected]

The P900.4 will be here next week-ish in port now.


----------



## heyhi

Big T said:


> Yes if you can get one. They were discontuined this year tho. Or if you can find a PPI power class, they are about the same


How do you like ur ppi so far? Im torn between these and a set of PhDs. The PhDs are 2way but I believe they've won a few sq competitions. 

It hard to explain what im after. I really want clarity, I want everything to blend well in a passive install. Kind of a surround sound where every note and instrument comes to life.


----------



## Big T

I love them...very crisp and detailed. You will not go wrong with them.


----------



## Wooptido

If you read earlier post Big T and I really like these. Very clear and very powerful on the mid bass. I am running them with the passive crossovers on the 4.760 Soundstream reference series and love it. I wish I would have ignored the nay sayers when these amps were in production because its a hell of an amp! Not sure what RMS is but I recall someone telling me ~150. Either way they are handling the 110 from Soundstream quite nicely


----------



## Deafabove30Hz

Hey BigT what kind of power are you feeding those PPI 3-ways? I have a set here, and their documentation is really weak. A lot of guesswork. The box reads 400 watts, so I assumed that was peak, and split in half for each side for 100 w rms. The guys at PPI told me 160 w rms, and I heard from another source 200. I don't want to fry these pretty little things, and I don't want to under power them either. Any suggestions would be welcome! Thx in advance.


----------



## Big T

I am running mine all active. I have 2 P900.4s (145w ch). 2 ch on tweeters, 2 on mid. 2 on mid bass and the lase to running 2ohm on sub. You really don't need that much on mids and highs tho.


----------



## Deafabove30Hz

Thanks for the shout back Big T. I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the same amp lol. Initially, I will be going passive using their crossovers. Did you keep the other crossovers or sell them, or want to sell them? I have a set of Soundstream RC.6 that I wouldn't mind adding an additional imaging mid (CDT ES-04) or perhaps go with more low end and stick a lower leaning midbass and push the RC.6 up a bit and I think that PPI crossover would work well. Anyway, thanks again, can't wait to get these installed. A long way to go with door pods yet, and this Ford Excursion of mine is full of challenges trying to get the imaging right. You sit up so high and block all the speakers that it required a lot of tweeking to come up with a good placement. Kick pods were out unless I got rid of the E-brake, and the only real open space I had was the center between the console and the dash, and with a mid and tweeter it sounded great, but must have both. I will have to update this story as I get into the install more. The fun of learning and theorizing to ultimately come up with a system for this truck has been worth the wife's complaining about my priority structure HA!!! Now, I just hope it comes together as planned and these PPI's perform like a boss.


----------



## Accord GTR

Big T said:


> I am running mine all active. I have 2 P900.4s (145w ch). 2 ch on tweeters, 2 on mid. 2 on mid bass and the lase to running 2ohm on sub. You really don't need that much on mids and highs tho.


see i was trying to figure this out i want to know the recommended rms wattage for each component(Tweeter,Midrange & Midbass) like some said above i dont want to scorch them or under power them. and what is the best gain setting on that or any phantom amp


----------



## Big T

That's a question for Ryan. I set mine by ear so I can't tell to the wattages.


----------



## Accord GTR

Big T said:


> That's a question for Ryan. I set mine by ear so I can't tell to the wattages.



Thanks Guys.I shot him a Pm.Is he even active on here anymore

and Big T How does it sound now that its settled in,has the sq improved?


----------



## Big T

Well the my Truck and Wife's car both sound great. She nailed 1st in IQC at SBN. 


Inpeadance and Xover I can help you with. They are 4ohm drivers.

What I have found works is
Midbass xover at about 85
Mids at 350-400
Tweeters 4.5k


----------



## [email protected]

Yes I am still active and I answered your pm. I was out of email and cell coverage for the past 5 days....which was awesome and I want to go back! 

Yes each driver is 4 ohm. And Ed (BigT) is pretty dead on. The woofer will play lower if you are using a smaller sub driver. The AMT really kicks in around 3k but where Ed has his is perfect. The Mid id good at his recommendation as well. But it all comes down to the vehicle and placement. I have the freq response chart if anyone wants it....its top secret but ill share. Email me and I can send it over. Or just buy them and they are on the box!


----------



## Big T

On the box. Real top secret. Lol


----------



## [email protected]

Thats my pitch....you want to see it go visit a retail shop that sells them and support small business! 
Begging me works well too....sometimes.


----------



## rton20s

Or you could post the frequency response charts up here for the enthusiasts who would consider picking up a set but might not have a local dealer.


----------



## 1fishman

rton20s said:


> Or you could post the frequency response charts up here for the enthusiasts who would consider picking up a set but might not have a local dealer.


Which is probably the majority of us.


----------



## Accord GTR

[email protected] said:


> Thats my pitch....you want to see it go visit a retail shop that sells them and support small business!
> Begging me works well too....sometimes.





1fishman said:


> Which is probably the majority of us.


Yep Im Going to order my two sets thru the site


----------



## MuitaTreta

Ryan, 

What's the recommended volume for sealed box for woofer and midrange? 

What's is better for woofer: door or kick pods?

I'll be installing this weekend.


----------



## Accord GTR

Accord GTR said:


> Thanks Guys.I shot him a Pm.Is he even active on here anymore
> 
> and Big T How does it sound now that its settled in,has the sq improved?





Big T said:


> Well the my Truck and Wife's car both sound great. She nailed 1st in IQC at SBN.
> 
> 
> Inpeadance and Xover I can help you with. They are 4ohm drivers.
> 
> What I have found works is
> Midbass xover at about 85
> Mids at 350-400
> Tweeters 4.5k


Now all this time i been reading and lurking this thread i thought it was you but never really thought about it congrats to you and your wife on your wins.I always look at your PPI team profiles on the site.

Hey are you still running two A.8SQ? & if so whats the best amp to driving to drive one A.8SQ ,and what are the dimensions for the smallest sized enclosure for one sub.Because that's what i want to run.

Thanks for the Crossover points i will put these to use.


----------



## Accord GTR

[email protected] said:


> Yes I am still active and I answered your pm. I was out of email and cell coverage for the past 5 days....which was awesome and I want to go back!
> 
> Yes each driver is 4 ohm. And Ed (BigT) is pretty dead on. The woofer will play lower if you are using a smaller sub driver. The AMT really kicks in around 3k but where Ed has his is perfect. The Mid id good at his recommendation as well. But it all comes down to the vehicle and placement. I have the freq response chart if anyone wants it....its top secret but ill share. Email me and I can send it over. Or just buy them and they are on the box!


ok I plan to use one A.8SQ how do i get the above mention to happen & just how low with out blowing woofer.


----------



## Big T

Accord GTR said:


> Now all this time i been reading and lurking this thread i thought it was you but never really thought about it congrats to you and your wife on your wins.I always look at your PPI team profiles on the site.
> 
> Hey are you still running two A.8SQ? & if so whats the best amp to driving to drive one A.8SQ ,and what are the dimensions for the smallest sized enclosure for one sub.Because that's what i want to run.
> 
> Thanks for the Crossover points i will put these to use.




I have mine in a .5cuf each and they sound great. I have mine running on the rear channels of a P900.4 bridged.


----------



## Big T

MuitaTreta said:


> Ryan,
> 
> What's the recommended volume for sealed box for woofer and midrange?
> 
> What's is better for woofer: door or kick pods?
> 
> I'll be installing this weekend.



I can't answer for sure on these. But the old ones didn't like Sealed at all. I didn't try these sealed tho but they sound great Freeair


----------



## MuitaTreta

Thanks Big T.

Are using on axis, off axis or aimed to driver?


----------



## Accord GTR

Big T said:


> I have mine in a .5cuf each and they sound great. I have mine running on the rear channels of a P900.4 bridged.


so you pushing them at 300W x 2 at a 4ohm load? and how are the subs wired because they are 4ohm DVC right? and what is your gain setting on the amp 

and you gain setting P900.4 the active setup with the tweeters ,mids and midbass woofer i want to set up everything right 

Thanks Big T


----------



## heyhi

Accord GTR said:


> Now all this time i been reading and lurking this thread i thought it was you but never really thought about it congrats to you and your wife on your wins.I always look at your PPI team profiles on the site.
> 
> Hey are you still running two A.8SQ? & if so whats the best amp to driving to drive one A.8SQ ,and what are the dimensions for the smallest sized enclosure for one sub.Because that's what i want to run.
> 
> Thanks for the Crossover points i will put these to use.


Can you tell me what you came up with on the rms . For some reason its such a big secret that the site won't list it or no one answers. To be honest I was about to get these speakers but just the point that I can't get an rms sounds a little to funny. Id recommend people buy morel, phd, or hat. Stay away from ppi. You can't even get crossover range on the amps on the site.


----------



## Rogue740

heyhi said:


> Can you tell me what you came up with on the rms . For some reason its such a big secret that the site won't list it or no one answers. To be honest I was about to get these speakers but just the point that I can't get an rms sounds a little to funny. Id recommend people buy morel, phd, or hat. Stay away from ppi. You can't even get crossover range on the amps on the site.


[email protected] posted on another thread that this component set is rated at 250wrms with the crossover. 

I find a lot of companies don't publish crossover points on the website, it's usually buried in the owners manual.


----------



## Accord GTR

LOL Ryan when are these amps going to be back in stock i want a P900.4 ,P900.5 

and was thinking of using a i350.2 or BK120.2 for amt's but dont want any excessive battery drain so i might just use the i350

Unless they just build me a custom 5 channel phantom amp that rated at 25-40 x2 + 50x3 or just a 50x5 channel amp i have a 5.1 system in my car so this is why i would want this...But i know im Dreaming LOL


----------



## Accord GTR

heyhi said:


> Can you tell me what you came up with on the rms . For some reason its such a big secret that the site won't list it or no one answers. To be honest I was about to get these speakers but just the point that I can't get an rms sounds a little to funny. Id recommend people buy morel, phd, or hat. Stay away from ppi. You can't even get crossover range on the amps on the site.



Peak Power Handling
500 watts
RMS Power Handling
300 watts which = 150 watts x 2

and they are always glad to help you im 41 i ran PPI & MTX stuff back in high school during the late 80's and 90's and these are the only two brands i truly trust.I plan on building me a full PPI SQ system.That's how much i love this brand.


----------



## 1fishman

heyhi said:


> Can you tell me what you came up with on the rms . For some reason its such a big secret that the site won't list it or no one answers. To be honest I was about to get these speakers but just the point that I can't get an rms sounds a little to funny. Id recommend people buy morel, phd, or hat. Stay away from ppi. You can't even get crossover range on the amps on the site.


 I"m not sure what you mean as far as getting the "crossover range on the AMP" ? this might help
http://precisionpower.com/store/products/amplifiers/phantom/p600-21.html#!ig_lightbox2[gal]/2/

As far as a good range for the speakers, Big T has already said what works in he car. The advantage of going active is you tune it to your car and speaker location....

" What I have found works is
Midbass xover at about 85
Mids at 350-400
Tweeters 4.5k "

Also, like a lot of folks, he runs a amp big enough to get good performance, (the minimum rms is what's most important) simply adjust gains to the appropriately for each driver. He's running 145RMS to each driver.


----------



## Big T

MuitaTreta said:


> Thanks Big T.
> 
> Are using on axis, off axis or aimed to driver?



In my wife's car they are just dropped in the OEM spots. 6.5s in the door, mids in the stock dash tweet spot, and tweeters flat in the a pillar. . Timing worth a DEQ8

Truck 6.5s in the door and mids and tweeters in a pillars aimed somewhat at driver. ( about to redo the A Pillars for better aiming)


----------



## Big T

Accord GTR said:


> so you pushing them at 300W x 2 at a 4ohm load? and how are the subs wired because they are 4ohm DVC right? and what is your gain setting on the amp
> 
> and you gain setting P900.4 the active setup with the tweeters ,mids and midbass woofer i want to set up everything right
> 
> Thanks Big T



The subs are Single voice Coil 4ohm so I have them playing 4ohm stereo . They don't require a lot of power. They are just for SQ. I think that the gain is up most of the way on them. The rest if the gains I couldn't say. I set them by ear and never really pay attention. I would go look for you but you can't see them.. Lol


----------



## Big T

heyhi said:


> Can you tell me what you came up with on the rms . For some reason its such a big secret that the site won't list it or no one answers. To be honest I was about to get these speakers but just the point that I can't get an rms sounds a little to funny. Id recommend people buy morel, phd, or hat. Stay away from ppi. You can't even get crossover range on the amps on the site.




RMS power 250.00


----------



## Big T

Accord GTR said:


> LOL Ryan when are these amps going to be back in stock i want a P900.4 ,P900.5
> 
> and was thinking of using a i350.2 or BK120.2 for amt's but dont want any excessive battery drain so i might just use the i350
> 
> Unless they just build me a custom 5 channel phantom amp that rated at 25-40 x2 + 50x3 or just a 50x5 channel amp i have a 5.1 system in my car so this is why i would want this...But i know im Dreaming LOL



Just sent Ryan a text. He said they were clearing customs now and will be in stock there sometime this week.


----------



## [email protected]

For all you guys who think that we don't do anything cool anymore and just buy crap out of a catalogue.....may I introduce you to PASMAG and their review of the P65C3. This just might change your mind. Again when I said they were 100% different than anything else out there, I wasn't kidding. Proof is in the pudding and well here is your dose of pudding. 

http://www.precisionpower.com/html-version/images/TEST-REPORT-P-65C3-review.pdf


----------



## el_bob-o

[email protected] said:


> Proof is in the pudding and well here is your dose of pudding.


Giggidy!


----------



## rton20s

What?! A positive review from Garry Springgay @ PAS? That is almost unheard of! 

Seriously though, I really do appreciate the fact that you submitted the set to be reviewed. I do hope to get to audition these at some point.


----------



## pjf1fan

I had picked up a set for my VW Jetta. I am so impressed by the packaging that I love them already. I'll get a chance to install them with a PPI P900.4 in the coming weeks. If these sound as good as they look, I'm taking the JBL MS62c out of the other car and upgrading to the 3-ways. I'll also recommend them for my friend's VW Passat.


----------



## Darth SQ

rton20s said:


> What?! A positive review from Garry Springgay @ PAS? That is almost unheard of!
> 
> Seriously though, I really do appreciate the fact that you submitted the set to be reviewed. I do hope to get to audition these at some point.


Very similar to this one:
PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Precision Power PC3.65C Components


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Darth SQ

Seriously, though guys, and this is no slight to Ryan, audition these for yourselves and make your own conclusions.
I still want to hear this new set for myself just to see how different they really are from the old 3ways.
Anyone on the bay area have a set yet?
I'll show your mine if you show me yours. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## pjf1fan

I assume we're grown men with decent jobs. If anyone is curious, just buy the damn set, build a makeshift box for it for some living room testing or install it in the car. Heck, they're well under $300 so what do you stand to lose if you don't like them?


----------



## rton20s

Implying that "grown men with decent jobs" would piss $250 away just to see what a set of speakers sound like is a bit foolish if you ask me. Seems more like the kind of thing an impetuous kid would do. 

Bret's suggestion and search to find others out there who may have a set for demonstration before spending any money seems like the kind of thing a "grown man" would do.


----------



## Darth SQ

rton20s said:


> Implying that "grown men with decent jobs" would piss $250 away just to see what a set of speakers sound like is a bit foolish if you ask me. Seems more like the kind of thing an impetuous kid would do.
> 
> Bret's suggestion and search to find others out there who may have a set for demonstration before spending any money seems like the kind of thing a "grown man" would do.


Thanks Dustin. :thumbsup:
No need for me to add anything to that other than my offer to audition and compare the old 3way set is still on the table.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## pjf1fan

You two guys are right. Audition if available, and it is the better way to buy. Having said that, $xxx to support a manufacturer of great goods is a safe bet given there will be a resale value. One stands to lose maybe $60 if they need to be Craigslisted. I see grown men blowing more than that on bar tabs after work. Not implying all do.


----------



## rton20s

pjf1fan said:


> I see grown men blowing more than that on bar tabs after work. Not implying all do.


It is all relative I suppose. There are those in this world that would wipe their butt with a pair of Benjamins, those that would be willing to kill for it, and everything in between. 

And I suppose your term "grown men" is appropriate. There is no implication of maturity or wisdom there.


----------



## hot9dog

I have a workshop full of crap that i spent good money on... just to see if it worked as advertised. Hence why i call it crap. Lol. I choose very carefully now, to how and when i open my wallet. A funny thing happened now that i do that.... i have more money in my wallet! Lol. Im very curious about the new 3 ways.... but curiosity alone wont open the wallet. Maybe santa will get them for me.....


----------



## pjf1fan

I haven't installed them yet and I'm not sure when I'll get my chance to. There may be a head unit change in the works as well as a JBL MS8 so I have to plan accordingly. I'll give feedback after expensive break-in and listening. I've heard a lot but I've gotten lazy and learned to live with stock VW 3-ways. I guess i have this forum to thank for my renewed interest in car audio and Precision Power for that matter. Now that I'm twice the age, car audio means sound quality over quantity. These PPI 3-ways sound like just the ticket.


----------



## [email protected]

For those of you who have heard them you understand the work that went into these....this wasn't a buy it off the shelf at some Chinese factory, they were engineered from the ground up. We spent a lot of time and a lot of money making sure they were right. So far it has paid off. Just like the review says, they are not for everyone. I will admit it took us a while to get used to the sound, its not like anything you have ever heard before....it takes time. But once you get used to them you really appreciate them. And again they have the sound of a $1-2k speaker set but for a fraction of the cost. This might actually work for us or it might not, maybe some will think if they are that cheap they cant be good. And again I challenge that consumer and I know we will change their mind after listening. Don't be biased based off something that once was good/great, challenge yourself to appreciate new technology and what it can do for this industry. The industry doesn't move forward by doing the same thing year after year. It moves forward by embracing newer more efficient technology. A wise man once told me that industry moves forward buy building it better,faster and smarter. Thats what we all strive to do....and if we can save you some money then we all win in my book.


----------



## hot9dog

If i had someway to audition this set.... to be honest, i took a gamble when i bought the last revision of PPI 3 ways- since i had no way to audition them also, and that gamble has paid off very well. The money thing isnt even the issue. The price point is hard to beat, the real issue is rip out my current setup, fab in the new set and then re-tune.... im getting older and im getting lazy. Lol be to honest ryan.... this new 3 way might be the catalyst for a new car purchase.... my son just turned 18 and he wants me to hand down my GTI to him..... its been a good year, maybe a new Jaguar XF might creep into the driveway.... lol if my wife gets upset, im going to blame you Ryan. Lol.


----------



## [email protected]

Its cool.....I've the punching bag before. I don't mind it at all.


----------



## Grizz Archer

pjf1fan said:


> You two guys are right. Audition if available, and it is the better way to buy. Having said that, $xxx to support a manufacturer of great goods is a safe bet given there will be a resale value. One stands to lose maybe $60 if they need to be Craigslisted. I see grown men blowing more than that on bar tabs after work. Not implying all do.


No wait just a minute here buddy!!! Who says a bar tab is "blowing" money?!?!
:beerchug:


----------



## hot9dog

Grizz Archer said:


> No wait just a minute here buddy!!! Who says a bar tab is "blowing" money?!?!
> :beerchug:


If its Makers Mark..... its NEVER waste of money! Lol happy fathers day everyone!


----------



## Darth SQ

It's Father's Day....somebody beer me please....now!

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Grizz Archer

Last night it was Peanut Butter Milk Stout from Belching Beaver Brewery from Vista, CA. Awesome brew! But for Fathers Day, my Dad and I will be enjoying some Romeo & Julieta Toro cigars coupled with a couple Stone Brewing limited edition Smoked Chipotle Pepper Smoked Porter brews! Can't wait. But first, more smoking - two beautiful choice tri tips on my smoker. NOM NOM!!


----------



## Darth SQ

Grizz Archer said:


> Last night it was Peanut Butter Milk Stout from Belching Beaver Brewery from Vista, CA. Awesome brew! But for Fathers Day, my Dad and I will be enjoying some Romeo & Julieta Toro cigars coupled with a couple Stone Brewing limited edition Smoked Chipotle Pepper Smoked Porter brews! Can't wait. But first, more smoking - two beautiful choice tri tips on my smoker. NOM NOM!!


Ok you just saved your ass from a barrage of skirt wearing jokes with the tri-tips. 
Peanut butter beer? Really?.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Really?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Grizz Archer

Yup, really. I'm Irish, German and Reeses, so I had to try it...


----------



## cajunner

Chipotle beer with cigars.

double hot, super spice, very rich I think.

I wonder if the pairing of a mild cigar with a spicy hot beverage, is better than a very rich cigar with a hot brew?

I tend to like a creamy side to a hot dish, like crawfish etouffee or chicken tikka masala, maybe I'm not keen enough on the hot trend today...

like, I wouldn't try to eat those raw ghost peppers, I didn't even try a habanero, lol...


----------



## Grizz Archer

A Maduro cigar with this beer would have been to much, but we had Toro Robustos. Awesome...


----------



## Deafabove30Hz

Funny, had to add that I have a cigar burning right now while I work on my door pods, and watching the smoker with 3 racks of ribs. I have my PPI 3-ways temp installed in the doors awaiting completion of the door pods and they have definitely passed the break in period and sound warmer. I like the clarity, but I am adding a dedicated low midbass in the door to supplement them. The little mid and tweeter work well as a pair.


----------



## MAIDEN69

A couple questions for Ryan or anyone using these. I wanted to add a dedicated midbass driver to my Kicker RS6 components but just don't have room in my doors. C5 Corvette
The grille opening is too small. But I could fit these speakers but would have to have the 6.5", and mid driver in the doors while the tweeter is about 10"-12" above it in the A-pillar.
Does the tweeter and midrange need to be mounted together? Or would That setup work?
Also, I plan to either run the P99RS head or just add a 3sixty.3 to my system so I can run everything active. I know it was said that all the drivers are 4ohm. Great. But what about power handling?
The mids and tweets will be powered by a Phoenix Gold Titanium 500.4 (75rms x4)
The midbass drivers will be powered by a RF Punch 800A4 (bridged- 400rms x2)
I am also running a RF Power 800A2 bridged to power a pair of 8" subs.
I'm hoping these will kick out some serious midbass with that power to them. 
So, can these 3-ways be setup with the tweeter in the pillar while the mid and midbass is in the doors???


----------



## Big T

I actually just did a friends truck like that with my old PPI 3way I took out of my truck to add these and they sounded great. If your running active, time should correct any issues. 

About the 360.3, I had a couple of .2s and nothing but problems. Check out the PPI DEQ 8R. Or DSP 88R


----------



## MAIDEN69

Big T said:


> I actually just did a friends truck like that with my old PPI 3way I took out of my truck to add these and they sounded great. If your running active, time should correct any issues.
> 
> About the 360.3, I had a couple of .2s and nothing but problems. Check out the PPI DEQ 8R. Or DSP 88R


Too late. Just bought one for $385 shipped. I read the same thing on the older models. From what I read, the new one solved them all and I really haven't read any negatives on it. I would have rather just bought a Pioneer P99rs but $$$.
Plus now, really want to give these PPI speakers a go. I'm a big Home Audio guy. Love ribbon speakers. The Carver Amazing Platinum speakers from the 80's are still some of the finest speakers ever made. 56" ribbon I believe.
Not sure of the tweeter design of these, but it sure looks to be of a pleated ribbon design.

So you are saying that with the dsp and running active on all my speakers, that time aligning is the solution to having to space the tweeter and mid apart from each other?


----------



## Big T

Yes. To the alignment question.

The tweeters are Air Motion Transformers like Heil home tweeters


----------



## [email protected]

Big T said:


> Haven't gotten to go tune the car yet. Got en installed in the truck but not playing yet.
> They spunk unbelivable in the car without being tuned.


That wasn't auto correct! Thats just Ed


----------



## [email protected]

I honestly think you will be ok. You just need time alignment. I used to do that setup back in the day with the Boston Pro 6.53 and they were awesome. But again just get a good digital eq q/time alignment. Obviously I would want you to buy mine but if you don't cool too. Ask BigT (Ed) his DEQ.8 is awesome. Him and his wife run them and they win everything they enter.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Thanks Ryan. I had already bought the RF DSP so I'm gonna give it a go. Unless I swap in a P99RS which I don't think is gonna happen. So for now it will be the JVC AVX77 into the 3sixty.3
Question on the tweeters. It's mentioned how the response is up to 40K. I'm curious on this. I know the home AV world has made those moves with the newer formats like Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master..... and a couple of formats I love on my home system, SACD & DVD Audio. What about in car audio? I've never read about headunits, amps, or DSP's that have response capabilities up into the Hi-Res areas of say the mention 40K. 
So these tweeters are capable of playing up to 40K, but what other gear out there will support that and actually pass that signal to them???


----------



## rton20s

MAIDEN69 said:


> Thanks Ryan. I had already bought the RF DSP so I'm gonna give it a go. Unless I swap in a P99RS which I don't think is gonna happen. So for now it will be the JVC AVX77 into the 3sixty.3
> Question on the tweeters. It's mentioned how the response is up to 40K. I'm curious on this. I know the home AV world has made those moves with the newer formats like Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master..... and a couple of formats I love on my home system, SACD & DVD Audio. What about in car audio? I've never read about headunits, amps, or DSP's that have response capabilities up into the Hi-Res areas of say the mention 40K.
> So these tweeters are capable of playing up to 40K, but what other gear out there will support that and actually pass that signal to them???


It doesn't matter. You won't hear it. 

The 40k thing is mostly just marketing, but the point is the AMT tweeters are capable of playing up to 40k at a level of reference -X dB. The assumption then, is that they are still rock solid to 20k+ and not starting to fall off below human hearing level.


----------



## [email protected]

With the AMT going out that high isn't about what you here its a dynamic that you FEEL when you listen to this set. Go to precision power.com and download the PASMAG review and look at what Garry Springay has to say about. They don't sound like a normal component set of any kind no matter how expensive or not. They just sound different. There are little nuances you here that you never ever heard before. In fact they take some time get used to when you first listen. Ask BigT, even the IASCA judges couldn't quite wrap their heads around the sound. There will be haters until they actually get to listen to them.


----------



## [email protected]

The AMT is NO MARKETING gimmick.


----------



## rton20s

[email protected] said:


> The AMT is NO MARKETING gimmick.


Just to be clear. I was not saying the AMT was a marketing gimmick. I was saying that they use of a frequency response beyond human heading (namely 40k) was as much about marketing as it was anything else. I am sure that the PPI AMT is a perfectly capable performer.


----------



## MAIDEN69

I love Ribbon speakers, electrostatic, and all the other exotic speakers in the home audio world. I used to go to CES and Cedia every year to listen to speakers like the MBLs, Maggies, Bob Carver ribbons. They all do the same, play up and beyond 40K. And you can hear the difference. Although the gear they are running costs more than my home!
What I always liked about Ribbon and Electrostatic speakers is the ability to play clean to extreme levels. There just never seems to be an end to the volume. 
I have not heard this design of tweeters yet. My work buddy loves his ESS speakers with this type of tweeter. I figure it is worth the price of admission to see for myself. I'm sure I will love them.


----------



## expiredtags

Subscribed for first impressions 

Really considering giving these a try instead of picking up the GZ Uranium comps that are FS on here right now.....Too many choices LOL


----------



## [email protected]

I judged a vehicle that had these at a MECA event. The install wasn't 100%, but I was really surprised. I didn't know anything about them, saw PPI and was like.. "hmmmm..". Once I listened though, I thought they sounded really good. I don't remember any specifics other than there was nothing offensive and they did sound good...


----------



## damo4833

I too am looking forward to hearing more input & reviews...post up more!!
They'll probably sound quite nice with my old Art Series a404 ~ hmm?


----------



## MAIDEN69

Any more feedback on these? Seriously considering them. 
I know the tweets and midrange drivers will be perfectly happy with the PG Titanium 500.4 powering them. But I wonder if I will be overpowering the 6.5's with the RF Punch 800.4 I am planning on bridging it down to two channels to run the midbass drivers. 
That will be at least 400watts to each of them and most likely about 450. Any thoughts on this Big T or Ryan?
And this one is for Big T. Being you have had time with them. Can you post a pic or two of your A pillars with the tweets and mids mounted? I've read 100 pages on A pillar installs and am curious if you mounted yours on or off axis. I have always tried to go on-axis with my tweets but usually always use silk tweeters. What I have zero experience with is a dedicated midrange like these, or an AMT tweeter. So looking for some advice on this set as far as A-pillar mounting goes. I don't plan to experiment with aiming and locations. I will position them so they look good and fit and make my pillars. What I need to know on these is what works best for them. On axis mid and off axis tweet? Or what other setup? 

If I were to buy this set, I will either be mounting the mids in the doors or the A pillars. Although the A pillars might not be an option in my car. If I do go with them in my doors, they may be partially blocked by the speaker grills on the door nearest the listener. Due to the angle being next to the door. The door across from you will give you direct sight of the driver though. Curious if that would be a problem? I'm not saying the mids will be blocked behind the door card and not fire into the cabin, but the grill opening on the door panel next to you will be at such an angle that you will not have direct view of the mid on that side. Hope I'm explaining it right.
Anyway, still in the air on these. I have two brand new sets of the old Kicker Resolutions with the ND25 silk tweets. I have matching 8" RMB8 midbass drivers but they just wont fit. My other option which I aired on this forum, was mounting the second set of Resolution 6" mids in my rear speaker locations to use as midbass drivers. Which is neck level about 12" behind the driver/passenger heads. It's a Corvette so only a two seater. From the discussions, it could work with proper tuning but is not ideal. So it brings me back to these as they are the only 3-ways remotely in my budget. Which I'm already way over!!!


----------



## MAIDEN69

So here is what I'm working with. Here's some quick cardboard mock-ups. 
First is with the midrange/tweet up in the A-pillars. In this position, I should easily be able to aim them any direction needed for on or off axis. Midbass in the doors.






My other option is with the Mid/woof's in the doors, tweets alone up top. If I squeeze the midrange into the upper forward corner, my knees don't block them. Passenger has sight but it's through the steering wheel.
The tweets could go pretty much anywhere on the pillars. If I go this route, I'm thinking some spheres. Maybe either way.


----------



## sirbOOm

My vote on the above would be the midbass and midrange in the door - second option. In a Corvette, you will only need a tweeter up in the pillar. As for the PPI DSP mentioned earlier, they can't even use the proper version of "weather / whether" on their description. Come on... I'm sure it's a good unit but these kinds of mistakes are ridiculous on a product site. Makes it look like another eBay Google translate from Chinese to English. (Yes I know this is their old site... no excuses.)

DEQ-8
Digital Signal Processor
DEQ-8 is a unique DSP processor brought to you by the Product Development Team at Precision Power. A 24bit/96kHz digital audio processor allowing you full control of your system. With mobile audio changing daily, we thought to our self's what could we bring to the market that would meet the needs of all vehicles, *weather* a factory system or the biggest baddest after market systems.


----------



## MAIDEN69

I'm curious why you voted for the 2nd option? And how important is it for the midrange to have direct earshot to the listener? That is my only concern. I know these tweeters are being pimped as being incredible off-axis performers and that leaves me wondering how I should aim them. Maybe aim each one to the middle of the car....
With the mids in the doors, I should be able to angle them towards the middle as well.
Hoping to get some feedback from Ryan and Big T. About the power handling as well.


----------



## REGULARCAB

[email protected] said:


> I judged a vehicle that had these at a MECA event. The install wasn't 100%, but I was really surprised. I didn't know anything about them, saw PPI and was like.. "hmmmm..". Once I listened though, I thought they sounded really good. I don't remember any specifics other than there was nothing offensive and they did sound good...


Lol that's how I described my jbl's "nothing offensive". That description sounds vague, but I have found it difficult to get a set in a car that didn't do SOMETHING that pissed off my ears, I'll chalk that up to a +1 for the ppi's


----------



## sirbOOm

MAIDEN69 said:


> I'm curious why you voted for the 2nd option? And how important is it for the midrange to have direct earshot to the listener? That is my only concern. I know these tweeters are being pimped as being incredible off-axis performers and that leaves me wondering how I should aim them. Maybe aim each one to the middle of the car....
> With the mids in the doors, I should be able to angle them towards the middle as well.
> Hoping to get some feedback from Ryan and Big T. About the power handling as well.


Simply because the cabin of a Corvette is so small, your visibility will be hampered by a midrange pod, and becuase the midrange location in the door has been done before. I, for one, have installed similar to how you have it mocked up for a friend of an uncle before) and, with time alignment, the sound stage was on the dash without any fight at all. I've seen this in other vettes. Arguably you could put the tweeter in the door and the midrange only on the pillar, too. I suppose that might enhance width and the illusion of the singer being more forward - at least that's what happens for me when I put midranges "significantly" more forward in the car than the tweeters. Plus it'll look better to just have one speaker up on the pillar.


----------



## Big T

Sorry. Been busy and haven't been online in a fee days. I think it would sound slightly better with the mid and tweet in the pillar, but as said above with room constraints the mid in the door may be your better way. Putting both in the piller as small as they are may look bulky and you should be able to correct any problems with time.

I think the 400-450 watts may be pushing the limits. If it sounds like your over driving them just cut your power back. Headroom is always a good thing.
My truck is currently in Benton at Todd Crowders getting the pillers re aimed. I will post pics when I get it back...


----------



## Big T

this is how they were mounted. Sorry if you can't tell much. We had the trim panel perfed and covered with grill cloth.


----------



## MAIDEN69

So you had them aimed across at each other in an off axis setup? Are you aiming them towards you in the new setup?
As far as my amp goes, like you mentioned, cutting the gains back should hopefully solve that problem. If anything, my amp will be sleepwalking pushing those. 
Thanks for the advice, Im still undecided on where to mount the mids. Especially if they are better off aimed at each other. That would allow me to really snug them into the pillars and not look too bulky up there.

And can one of you tell me if the front trim ring on the tweeter is removable? I'm not a fan of the look. Too plasticy, cheap looking. A satin aluminum or anodized black trim ring would have been sweet. The passive X-overs got the Ai treatment, the tweeters should have as well. Especially since they are advertised as the star of this system. If it's removable I can at least smooth it out and paint it.


----------



## Big T

We had problems with the pillar trim blocking sound causing the truck to sound narrow( not a speaker issue) the are going to be aimed more at the driver now and sunk into the actual piller.

The tweeter ring does now come apart. You can't see them in the truck but on the wife's car you can so I masked the grill and used Sem dye and sprayed the ring them used a small art brush and did the grill to match her pillar trim. Looks nice


----------



## edouble101

I went to PPI website and I do not see this set. Are these discontinued already?


----------



## rton20s

What? They are all over the website. First image that displays when the page launches is this component set. 

P.65C3 - Power Class Components - Speakers - Products


----------



## 1fishman

Big T said:


> this is how they were mounted. Sorry if you can't tell much. We had the trim panel perfed and covered with grill cloth.



Love to see what this looks like with the trim on. 
Little hard for me to understand how you're pulling that off


----------



## [email protected]

sirbOOm said:


> Simply because the cabin of a Corvette is so small, your visibility will be hampered by a midrange pod, and becuase the midrange location in the door has been done before. I, for one, have installed similar to how you have it mocked up for a friend of an uncle before) and, with time alignment, the sound stage was on the dash without any fight at all. I've seen this in other vettes. Arguably you could put the tweeter in the door and the midrange only on the pillar, too. I suppose that might enhance width and the illusion of the singer being more forward - at least that's what happens for me when I put midranges "significantly" more forward in the car than the tweeters. Plus it'll look better to just have one speaker up on the pillar.


leave the woofer and the mid in the door mount the tweet in the a-pillar. the off axis performance is so good it won't matter…use the midrange contour circuit to fix the response curve.


----------



## MAIDEN69

I assume you are talking about a feature on the passive network. Im gonna be running active with the 3sixty.3. 
Thanks for the advice. I should have my set by the end of the week. Will start with my doors. Then build some temp pods to play with the tweet positioning.


----------



## [email protected]

MAIDEN69 said:


> I assume you are talking about a feature on the passive network. Im gonna be running active with the 3sixty.3.
> Thanks for the advice. I should have my set by the end of the week. Will start with my doors. Then build some temp pods to play with the tweet positioning.


You should be fine, just play with the time alignment a bit and should solve any issues. Thats how we did Big T's truck with the miss the way they were. We used our DEQ8 of course but you should be VERY happy with the sound.


----------



## Darth SQ

Ryan I saw this today and about fell over so I have to ask this.
This is what your new PPI website says for the new 3way set specs:

P.65C3

Power Class 6.5" 3-way Component Set; 400w Max

Size & Configuration 6.5” 3-way 
Max Power Handling 400w 
Frequency Response *20-40kHz* 

How do you get your new 6.5 midbass to play down to 20hz? 
Most of your subwoofers don't even do that. 
Most everyone else's subwoofers don't even do that.
If the answer is they do, do you have klippel evidence to back it up?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## REGULARCAB

I'd be pretty stoked for some T/S parameters. Not enough car audio companies post em IMHO.


----------



## [email protected]

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Ryan I saw this today and about fell over so I have to ask this.
> This is what your new PPI website says for the new 3way set specs:
> 
> P.65C3
> 
> Power Class 6.5" 3-way Component Set; 400w Max
> 
> Size & Configuration 6.5” 3-way
> Max Power Handling 400w
> Frequency Response *20-40kHz*
> 
> How do you get your new 6.5 midbass to play down to 20hz?
> Most of your subwoofers don't even do that.
> Most everyone else's subwoofers don't even do that.
> If the answer is they do, do you have klippel evidence to back it up?
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Yeah thats a bit off....however they have been klipple verified I just don't post it. The factory that makes runs them on the klipple machine. They do play down to around 45Hz-ish in the right enclosure. Do I recommend that you cross them over that low, hell no unless you are throwing like 25 watts to em. You can see the frequency response curve on our website and that is damn accurate. They are run in a full chamber not a mini one like some people use. You would be very surprised at what this set does, don't get me wrong the old set was great but this is a whole different animal.


----------



## Darth SQ

[email protected] said:


> Yeah thats a bit off....however they have been klipple verified I just don't post it. The factory that makes runs them on the klipple machine. They do play down to around 45Hz-ish in the right enclosure. Do I recommend that you cross them over that low, hell no unless you are throwing like 25 watts to em. You can see the frequency response curve on our website and that is damn accurate. They are run in a full chamber not a mini one like some people use. You would be very surprised at what this set does, don't get me wrong the old set was great but this is a whole different animal.


Ok thanks for letting us know. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## MAIDEN69

Does the manual include the response for the individual drivers? Something to go by for initial x-overs points when going active?


----------



## Big T

Got some pics of the pillars. Almost finished. I will post better pics when I get it back. Todd Crowder said they sound damn good..


----------



## MAIDEN69

They still look off axis. Guess that's the ticket. I would have guessed the mids would be aimed towards the listener.


----------



## Big T

I haven't gotten to hear it yet. He said he took a lot of time out from before. But I am like you. I thought they would be more at the deiver


----------



## Motown65

Hey guys after reading this thread last night I ordered a set. They should be here next week so install will start then to. They're replacing my pioneer TS-D1720C in my 02 wrx. I like how Big T's A pillars are so if i have room im going to copy the design. As of now I'll be running them off the passive crossover for various reasons unless i can figure out a way to lowpass the widbass then il do passive on the front channels for the tweet and mid and passive on the rear with the mb since my head unit already has t/a.

Edit: Also I was wondering what sub would blend well with these? I was looking at a 13w6v2. My stereo will be made for hip hop, rap, rock, and pop if that helps.


----------



## Big T

Motown65 said:


> Hey guys after reading this thread last night I ordered a set. They should be here next week so install will start then to. They're replacing my pioneer TS-D1720C in my 02 wrx. I like how Big T's A pillars are so if i have room im going to copy the design. As of now I'll be running them off the passive crossover for various reasons unless i can figure out a way to lowpass the widbass then il do passive on the front channels for the tweet and mid and passive on the rear with the mb since my head unit already has t/a.
> 
> Edit: Also I was wondering what sub would blend well with these? I was looking at a 13w6v2. My stereo will be made for hip hop, rap, rock, and pop if that helps.



The PPI Phantom Subs are nice and won't break your bank.


----------



## Motown65

Edit: Never mind on this I have figured it out.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Love coming home from work and finding presents on the porch!!!





Great packaging and presentation. Drivers look nice. First impressions after being able to hold the drivers and look them over... The woofers cones are very LIGHT. You can see through them they are so thin. Yet they seem very stiff and the suspension is far stiffer than I expected. I will say after reading everything over on the packaging and in the manual, there are tons of mistakes. Spelling, wrong info... They certainly did not proof read any of the material. Any. It says the midrange drivers have push terminals, nope. They don't. Little things like that.
But not that any of that matters. Now if the heat backs off around here I can start getting them installed!


----------



## 1fishman

Big T said:


> Got some pics of the pillars. Almost finished. I will post better pics when I get it back. Todd Crowder said they sound damn good..


Wow, I love the stealth look! 
Id love to be able to do the same. I guess you used some kind of screen with that pillar build. 
That was the one thing i dread about mid-range in my pillars.


----------



## Big T

We perforated the plastic to make it like a grill the covered the whole trim with grill cloth


Oh yea. Sounds great


----------



## bkjay

Thanks man. Looks very stock.


----------



## Motown65

Big T said:


> We perforated the plastic to make it like a grill the covered the whole trim with grill cloth
> 
> 
> Oh yea. Sounds great


How great is great? Mine come Monday and i want to know what to expect. Im currently using pioneers d series comps.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Tech question for Ryan or if anyone else knows it.....
Can these mids be in a sealed enclosure and if so, what airspace? I'm planning to have the 6.5's and the midrange drivers in the doors. I want the midbass drivers to use the door cavity and build small sealed enclosures for the small mids. 

What x-over points would be a good starting point?

Also, kind of an odd cutout size for the tweeter. 1.850" 1 7/8" is just larger but no luck finding any kind of hole cutting bit that size. I am building two sets of spheres. One set with the Kicker ND25As and the other set with the AMTs. The ND25 is 1 3/4" so I just grabbed a hole saw that size and a 1 1/2" paddle bit. For the AMT spheres I will just have to work them over with my dremel, drill w/grinding bits... until the AMT tweeter fits in.


----------



## Big T

MAIDEN69 said:


> Tech question for Ryan or if anyone else knows it.....
> 
> Can these mids be in a sealed enclosure and if so, what airspace? I'm planning to have the 6.5's and the midrange drivers in the doors. I want the midbass drivers to use the door cavity and build small sealed enclosures for the small mids.
> 
> 
> 
> What x-over points would be a good starting point?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, kind of an odd cutout size for the tweeter. 1.850" 1 7/8" is just larger but no luck finding any kind of hole cutting bit that size. I am building two sets of spheres. One set with the Kicker ND25As and the other set with the AMTs. The ND25 is 1 3/4" so I just grabbed a hole saw that size and a 1 1/2" paddle bit. For the AMT spheres I will just have to work them over with my dremel, drill w/grinding bits... until the AMT tweeter fits in.



I can get you my xover points when I get home.

I will have to look a see what size, but I have a hole saw that gets very close. Then I just use a drum sander to get it exact. 

As far as enclosure size I will let Ryan tell us that one.


----------



## Big T

Motown65 said:


> How great is great? Mine come Monday and i want to know what to expect. Im currently using pioneers d series comps.



I am in awe


----------



## MAIDEN69

Thanks. Hopefully Ryan can get me the other info. 
Yeah, I looked everywhere for different size hole saws, paddle bits, forestner bits...
Nothing that size.
I'm trying to do spheres so kind of a paint to do. If I was just cutting holes in mdf or some other material, no biggie. I ended up using a 1 3/4" hole saw in the sphere. Then tried a 1 1/2" paddle to remove the material inside the hole. No luck. Destroyed one wood sphere. I ended up drilling out the rest and will have to track down a drum sander to size it further until the tweeter slips in. Couldn't find any drums at Home Depot??? I must of missed them, I know they have to have them. Hopefully I can get them fit into the spheres perfectly. I will post up pics if I do.
Thanks for the x-over info and the help.


----------



## Big T

Sears and Harbour freight has drum sanders that go on your drill or drill press


----------



## [email protected]

Big T said:


> I can get you my xover points when I get home.
> 
> I will have to look a see what size, but I have a hole saw that gets very close. Then I just use a drum sander to get it exact.
> 
> As far as enclosure size I will let Ryan tell us that one.


My Mids in the studio are in a 4x4 cube....Thats the enclosure we used to test them.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Hmmm I always heard that enclosures shouldn't have equal sides. That cubes were bad.
Either way, awesome. Very little airspace needed and should make it easier to build.

So was that the interior measurements? If that was the exterior size of the cube, what was it constructed of? Thickness. Or do you know the airspace? 
And my HF didn't have the drum sanders and either did 2 different Home Depots. Sears it is or Amazon!


----------



## Big T

MAIDEN69 said:


> Thanks. Hopefully Ryan can get me the other info.
> Yeah, I looked everywhere for different size hole saws, paddle bits, forestner bits...
> Nothing that size.
> I'm trying to do spheres so kind of a paint to do. If I was just cutting holes in mdf or some other material, no biggie. I ended up using a 1 3/4" hole saw in the sphere. Then tried a 1 1/2" paddle to remove the material inside the hole. No luck. Destroyed one wood sphere. I ended up drilling out the rest and will have to track down a drum sander to size it further until the tweeter slips in. Couldn't find any drums at Home Depot??? I must of missed them, I know they have to have them. Hopefully I can get them fit into the spheres perfectly. I will post up pics if I do.
> Thanks for the x-over info and the help.


My hole saw is 1 3/4"and that leaves about 1/8' to sand out..

Crossover point in My truck
8s are at 60
Midbass 85-250
Mid 300-4400
Highs 3500-up

Some changes may have been made with the new apillar design but it would be on the other computer.. These should be pretty close for a starting point..

Wifes car

12" sub 60
Midbass 60- 250
Mids 210-4500
Highs 3500- up


----------



## MAIDEN69

Why such a big gap between the subs and midbass?


----------



## Big T

Honestly. That's just where the truck sounds best. I think it may be because the 8s are under the front seats firing up. I think so Fqs load up


----------



## [email protected]

MAIDEN69 said:


> Hmmm I always heard that enclosures shouldn't have equal sides. That cubes were bad.
> Either way, awesome. Very little airspace needed and should make it easier to build.
> 
> So was that the interior measurements? If that was the exterior size of the cube, what was it constructed of? Thickness. Or do you know the airspace?
> And my HF didn't have the drum sanders and either did 2 different Home Depots. Sears it is or Amazon!


Its half in wood we used....the woofer is in a 1 cubic foot enclosure.


----------



## MAIDEN69

[email protected] said:


> Its half in wood we used....the woofer is in a 1 cubic foot enclosure.


So the internal dimensions would be 3"x3"x3"? .015*ft
Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure I get this right. Last thing I want is to enclose these mids in too small or too large an enclosure and screw the pooch! 
The midbass's will just use my door cavity as their enclosures. I plan to seal them up as best I can. Use Damplifier on both inner and outer door skins. Overkill (CCF) on the inner skin. Then a layer of Luxury Liner and Overkill between the door panels. 
Shooting for my doors to be dead silent, fingers X'd!


----------



## MAIDEN69

Started on the spheres. Think these are 2.5" spheres. A 3", had they had them, may have been a better size. Maybe not. I might buy some online and build one and see how the tweeters fit and go from there. But will finish this set first. 
Now for some plasti-dip for a temporary finish to see how they will look in the car. My plan is a gloss black with an accent of red. Here is an example on the intake I recently finished painting for the Vette. I think the spheres in the same black and red would look sweet.
Maybe I should have just bought a couple 8 Balls and used those!







Intake I painted.


----------



## MoparMike

That intake looks sweet! Nice work on the spheres too.

I've been interested in these components for a while. I'll be keeping a look out for your build if you post it.


----------



## hot9dog

Nice intake!


----------



## [email protected]

Looks good keep post in pics.....


----------



## MAIDEN69

Quick plasti dip on one of the spheres to see how they look.
Looking at them, I wish I could countersink the bezel into the ball right to that first bevel.


----------



## Big T

Killer


----------



## Big T

I put a set in a kids 96 silverado yesterday. Finally got to use the crossover that come with them. Put the 6.5 and tweeters in the stock locations and cut the mid in between them on the door panel. Used a PPI Phantom P900.4 amp and DSP99R processor. Very impressive.


----------



## 82cj8

Nice .What is the price on the new set? Ive got a 66 chevy II project that will be needing some.


----------



## Big T

399.00. From PPIs site


----------



## 1fishman

Big T said:


> I put a set in a kids 96 silverado yesterday. Finally got to use the crossover that come with them. Put the 6.5 and tweeters in the stock locations and cut the mid in between them on the door panel. Used a PPI Phantom P900.4 amp and DSP99R processor. Very impressive.


How did the dsp88r compare to your DEQ.8 in ease of use?
You used the crossover and the DSP88R. Why not use the crossover in the DSP88R?


----------



## Big T

Let's just say I didn't have to use the owners manual to figure it out. Both are very user friendly. Biggest draw back I saw was I couldn't figure out how to adjust left and right at the same time. You can do one and copy to the other, but not both real time. I may have missed something tho, Ryan may want to chime in on this.

As far as crossovers. It was a simple system, he just got a P900.4 for highs so he only had 2ch for front so we had to use the passives, which sound great. The only draw back using passives is you can't time each drive, but for where he wanted his mounted. We didn't need to. He isn't going to compete and will be more than happy with it.


----------



## phampau

Quick question, currently running a set of Hertz HSK 165xl, looking to try out a set of dynaudio mw162 and md102 2 way active, but reading this thread has me intrigued and 2nd guessing my decision and wanting to try this PPI 3 way setup active with a jbl ms-8. We are talking a $300 3 way set vs a $1000 2 way set. It will be going in a tundra crewmax in factory locations. Would the dynaudio's sound better or would the PPI's give them a run for their money? Thoughts and input greatly appreciated! Thanks, Paul


----------



## Darth SQ

phampau said:


> Quick question, currently running a set of Hertz HSK 165xl, looking to try out a set of dynaudio mw162 and md102 2 way active, but reading this thread has me intrigued and 2nd guessing my decision and wanting to try this PPI 3 way setup active with a jbl ms-8. We are talking a $300 3 way set vs a $1000 2 way set. It will be going in a tundra crewmax in factory locations. Would the dynaudio's sound better or would the PPI's give them a run for their money? Thoughts and input greatly appreciated! Thanks, Paul


So you're comparing Dynaudio to the new PPI and wondering if they're on the same level?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## MAIDEN69

Seems like more of a comparison to a high end 2-way vs a budget 3-way.


----------



## sirbOOm

The only way they'd sound "better" is because you have a midrange in your dash (assuming) and that might bring vocals up higher. I think it'd just sound different, not necessarily better. For $300, might as well give it a try.


----------



## phampau

I know the dynaudio's are "higher end" but with all the raves on this new set and ryan pumping them up, it really got me thinking....Dynaudio's will be on the way tomorrow but I guess I can always give these babies a try if they don't work out for me. Thanks for the responses! Paul


----------



## MAIDEN69

Got started on the passenger pods. Just need to enclose the back of the midrange and hit it up with some filler to smooth it out. Hope I can make two!!!


----------



## MAIDEN69




----------



## bkjay

That looks great!


----------



## [email protected]

Honestly you would be very happy with the PPI 3way. This isn't the set for everyone however just like in the pasmag review. Gary doesn't sugar coat things but this was one of his favorite speakers he has had the chance to listen to. They are engineered by us and a VERY famous speaker builder who's knows his stuff. And again this thing is cool and sounds unlike any other set out there. But you have to listen to them to believe me, until then its all pa matter of opinion. Good luck though....


----------



## MAIDEN69

So PPI and Soundstream is the same company? Does Soundstream still have a facility in Ranch Cordova? I work for UPS and made a few deliveries to them years ago. It was all damaged drivers so maybe it was just a repair facility. Thought I heard they started up in Folsom.


----------



## Big Boi

Subscribed to read previous posts. I want this setup in my RAM


----------



## rton20s

[email protected] said:


> They are engineered by us and a VERY famous speaker builder who's knows his stuff.


You keep alluding to the designer, but not stating who it is. Is there a NDA preventing you from providing the actual name? Just curious.


----------



## [email protected]

Lets just say that he was involved in the Stroker.....


----------



## Darth SQ

MAIDEN69 said:


> So PPI and Soundstream is the same company? Does Soundstream still have a facility in Ranch Cordova? I work for UPS and made a few deliveries to them years ago. It was all damaged drivers so maybe it was just a repair facility. Thought I heard they started up in Folsom.


They were in Folsom.
That's all long since passed.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Big Boi

Read the previous posts, but didnt get a true answer. How are these components? worth it?


----------



## [email protected]

Big Boi said:


> Read the previous posts, but didnt get a true answer. How are these components? worth it?


Ok so here is my honest opinion of ours since I have limited knowledge of the Dyne Audio. Years ago we used them and they were awesome but again very pricey. 

So we use super wide bandwidth drivers so that they integrate from one driver to the other without any loss in frequency response. The Tweeter obviously is the thing to talk about, and yes it sounds different than any other "CAR AUDIO" tweeter out there. It is ridiculously smooth and very airy. They have an incredible off axis response, so that you can use them in just about any location. The mid and the woofer use a natural cotton fiber cone that is extremely light and stiff giving it a very uncolored response while giving very good low end extension. We use giant motor assemblies on the mid and the woofer for superior power handling. It is no joke that when used with the supplied crossover it will handle 400watts. 

Again these are not for everyone, and I will be honest it took me a good couple of listening sessions to really start to appreciate them. They are different and they do trick you a bit, even the IASCA judges were thrown off a bit at SBN when we debut them in a car that was competing. If you are looking for super bright tweets this isn't for you. But if you like listening to music for hours on end with out ear fatigue the you need these. And the best part about the whole thing is the price. I was a bit reserved when we went in this so low. I could have sold these $1k a set but we didn't. And to that point we have nearly sold out of the first batch in a little more than 120 days making it the most successful component sets to date and most certainly my crowning achievement. I will go out on a limb here and say that NO company right now is selling a 1k pieces of anything close to this is in just over 120 days.


----------



## rton20s

Big Boi said:


> Read the previous posts, but didnt get a true answer. How are these components? worth it?


I haven't heard them, but "worth it" is something extremely subjective. And something you certainly shouldn't take the manufacturers word on.  (I know you are looking for those who have personal experience.) 

If you want to put them in perspective...

One of the only car audio 3 way component sets that is less expensive ($132):
Amazon.com : 2XL 6.5" 3-Way Component Speaker Kit : Component Vehicle Speaker Systems : Car Electronics

The Precision Power set ($219):
Amazon.com : PRECISION POWER P.65C3 Power Class Series 400-Watt, 6.5", 3-Way Components : Car Electronics

Another set with similar pricing (a lower tier brand from a higher end manufacturer - $219):
Amazon.com : RIP165S3- Auditor 6.5" 3-Way Component Speakers : Component Vehicle Speaker Systems : Car Electronics

The next lowest price car audio component sets ($300 - $370):
https://www.woofersetc.com/p-8959-cl-6e32-cdt-audio-3-way-631-component-system.aspx

https://www.woofersetc.com/p-9382-cl-6e42-cdt-audio-3-way-641-component-system.aspx

Amazon.com : Focal Access 165 A3 6.5-Inch 3-Way Component Speaker Kit : Component Vehicle Speaker Systems : Car Electronics

In perceived build quality and construction alone, they appear to be "worth it." But, neither build quality nor construction techniques alone make for good sounding speakers. PPI has obviously had success in competition with these, but unbiased opinions are still pretty scarce. 

If I had less than $300 to spend on a passive set of 3 way components, the PPI P.65C3 would likely be my first choice. Keep in mind though, that if you are going active, you can pull together a very competent 3 way set for well under $200.


----------



## Big T

If anyone is going to be at finals, you are welcome to listen to mine or my wife's


----------



## MAIDEN69

Finished one of the door pods. The foam was roughly 5"x3.5"x2" that I glassed over. Not sure on the airspace. I went off the 3x3x3 Ryan referenced. I lost a little interior from pouring the resin/filler milkshake in. 
Now to treat the door, then repeat on the drivers side. 









Filler/Resin Milkshake for the inside




Still fits!




Since they will be hidden, I'm not gonna get them paint ready smooth. I just shot them with Plasti-Dip to keep them waterproof.


----------



## 1fishman

MAIDEN69 
That's a very nice speaker pod build.
If it's not too off topic, could you tell me/us what kind of foam you used (where you get it), and how you remove it after your resin drys?


----------



## MAIDEN69

1fishman said:


> MAIDEN69
> That's a very nice speaker pod build.
> If it's not too off topic, could you tell me/us what kind of foam you used (where you get it), and how you remove it after your resin drys?


It was just regular Styrofoam. Found it in the crafts section at Walmart. They had several different shapes and sizes. I grabbed a 12" block for a couple bucks. Shaped it into two pieces(need a matching one for the other side) and used a little spray glue to hold it in place. Glassed over it. The foam melted away from the glass a bit as it cured, guessing from the heat or maybe the resin just eats it away. There was a gap between the fiberglass and the foam once dried. I then just used a tool to break up the foam until it all fell out. Then used my air compressor to blow it out. 100% came out. I was expecting to have to use acetone to melt it out as I've seen people do that. But it chipped away without it and was a piece of cake.
I could probably jump on this thing it's so solid.


----------



## [email protected]

Yeah that looks good to go. Cant wait to see what you think of the sound. 
I used to use modeling foam as well when making custom panels and trim pieces. The green stuff, you can sand it to the exact shape you need then glass over it.


----------



## MAIDEN69

They have the green stuff in the fake plants area. I should of grabbed it. I was worried the resin would eat up the foam causing the mold to collapse. 
One of my pods is done. Added a water shield to it. Just waiting on the speaker wire so I can mount them up and get this door finished. I'm glassing the back of the door panel to strengthen them up then hang a layer of Luxury Liner Pro and some more CCF to fill any voids. I used the 1/2" CCF on just about all of the interior of the door. It's a dead foam chamber. It's getting me excited to hear them. They won't lack on the install side. lol














back of the door panel with the glass cut and layed out. Ran out of light. Back at it tomorrow.


----------



## Big T

Nice


----------



## Big Boi

Ordered these today!

In my '09 Ram I will be putting the 6.5's in the doors using an adapter for 6x9's. 3's in the 3.5 location in the dash (aimed up at windshield) and the tweets in the sail panel.

After reading all 12 pages to this thread, I am not 100" sure on how much power I need to push them? 4 channel for sure, but how many watts?

Also, I will be remaining passive for the time being. Should I aim the tweets towards the driver or away?


----------



## Big T

That's how they are set up in my wife's car. Her tweets are just flat in the a pillar


----------



## [email protected]

Big Boi said:


> Ordered these today!
> 
> In my '09 Ram I will be putting the 6.5's in the doors using an adapter for 6x9's. 3's in the 3.5 location in the dash (aimed up at windshield) and the tweets in the sail panel.
> 
> After reading all 12 pages to this thread, I am not 100" sure on how much power I need to push them? 4 channel for sure, but how many watts?
> 
> Also, I will be remaining passive for the time being. Should I aim the tweets towards the driver or away?


You can give them a true 250watts RMS "IF" you use the supplied crossover. If not I will give you per speaker RMS ratings. 

As far as tweeter location they have an amazing off axis response so my advise would put them where you are at least 90* on axis and you can adjust them from there by turning them (ei; changing the orientation of the pleats.)

You may need to turn on the midrange contour as well.


----------



## Bigfx

Will these sounds okay with 150 watts


----------



## [email protected]

Yes it will. They are very efficient.


----------



## Bigfx

I have a 2014 tundra..I have the dash speakers slot to put the 2.5 in and I could put the tweeters in the sail panels would these sound better than some hertz hsk 2 way components both run passive


----------



## [email protected]

Yes they would. In fact they would be perfect. If you have the JBL system it already has three ways and a center channel.


----------



## Bigfx

Any specials going on out there for them?


----------



## [email protected]

woofersect.com is an authorized dealer and they have them in stock. Awesome customer service


----------



## car8961

Does anyone know the sealed volume of air needed for the 3" mid ? Thanks.


----------



## Big Boi

[email protected] said:


> You may need to turn on the midrange contour as well.


Understood everything but this.


----------



## MAIDEN69

It's an adjustment on the passive x-over network.


----------



## MAIDEN69

car8961 said:


> Does anyone know the sealed volume of air needed for the 3" mid ? Thanks.


I asked the same thing. Was told they were tested using a 4"x4"x4" cube made of 1/2". So the internal would be 3"x3"x3"/1728 = 0.016*ft


----------



## balane

I have a couple of questions on these interesting speakers.

Question One:
Is a sealed chamber required for the mid or can it be run in a typical IB door install with some success?

Question Two:
Right now I'm running a front two way active set up off of an 80PRS. My four channel amp for these puts out 75x4 but could be bridged for 300x2.

I see myself as having two choices;

A.) Run the midbass off of one channel @ 75w and then run the midrange and tweeter off the other 75w channel using the passive crossover to split the frequencies between the two. The advantage here is still having active control over the midbass to midrange crossover.

B.) Running the amp bridged at 300w x 2 and using all three drivers on the passive crossover. Advantage here is more power.

Is one of these options definitely better than the other?

If it matters I'm running a Dayton HO 10" in a sealed box at 500 watts. Vehicle is a mid size sedan, midbass lower doors, mids would be upper doors and tweeters in the sail panels.

Thank you for any feedback.


----------



## LeVeL

I have a 66 Lincoln Continental and am building my first system in many years and had to catch up to 2014 car audio. OK so I started with a Kenwood Excelon Dnx9990hd head unit, Infinity Cappa 4 125 x 4 watt 150 x4 2 ohm amp for the front Precision Power P65C3 components 6.5 in lower front door in pods firing at ears 3" mids in chrome motercycle speaker pods ear level and tweets in 2.5 pods as far foward as posable on dash and 4 Pioneer 6x9" 5 ways in rear deck 2 free air and 2 in box's mounted from underside of deck Kicker KX 800 watt mono amp powering a 4 ohm 12" Kicker L7 in sealed box in the trunk also Rockford Fosgate 0 gauge dual amp wiring kit, Monster Cable 16 Gauge 402 speaker wire and their Sub specific wireing also NVX sound damping on all inside sheet metal plus a layer of 1/8th closed cell foam and 1/4" mute ex designed for recording studio's. Upgraded big 3 a 240 amp alt and plan batt in trunk. IS there any thing else I am missing? What more can I do?


----------



## sirbOOm

You can post up a build log and then buy my '68 Continental.


----------



## LeVeL

Sorry bran new to forum Build log? And no way I've been working on her for 4 years and just started driving it after tons of mods to suspension and stearing and interior now ready for some tuneiage


----------



## [email protected]

balane said:


> I have a couple of questions on these interesting speakers.
> 
> Question One:
> Is a sealed chamber required for the mid or can it be run in a typical IB door install with some success?
> 
> Question Two:
> Right now I'm running a front two way active set up off of an 80PRS. My four channel amp for these puts out 75x4 but could be bridged for 300x2.
> 
> I see myself as having two choices;
> 
> A.) Run the midbass off of one channel @ 75w and then run the midrange and tweeter off the other 75w channel using the passive crossover to split the frequencies between the two. The advantage here is still having active control over the midbass to midrange crossover.
> 
> B.) Running the amp bridged at 300w x 2 and using all three drivers on the passive crossover. Advantage here is more power.
> 
> Is one of these options definitely better than the other?
> 
> If it matters I'm running a Dayton HO 10" in a sealed box at 500 watts. Vehicle is a mid size sedan, midbass lower doors, mids would be upper doors and tweeters in the sail panels.
> 
> Thank you for any feedback.


Answer to 1. You can run them IB and be just fine. Technically speaking BigT is in his A pillars. He won just about everything at SBN which them. 

Answer to 2. The only advantage of active over passive is more control. You have the deck to do it and would be waisting all that money you spent on it not to run active. As power goes 25watts to the tweeters, 50watts to the mids, and 100-150rms to the woofer and your good to go. (Those are RMS not peak)


----------



## balane

OK, thanks. That certainly makes things easier on me. I was certain you were going to say having double the power would be superior.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Sounds like I will be grossly overpowering my midbass drivers!!! Using a PG Titanium 500.4 on the tweets and mids. It's rated at 75wx4 so should be fine there. But using a RF Punch 800A4 for the 6.5"s. It's rated at 100x4 or 400x2 bridged as I'm planning to run it. I just figure I will have the gains turned way down and I should be fine. Plus I'm running a pair of Sundown SD-2 8's and should be able to have them play upwards of 100hz covering the tougher midbass range frequencies so that the 6.5" midbass drivers don't have to work as hard. Hopefully that will make a difference.


----------



## nanohead

Just bought a set for $230 off ebay from Beach Camera... 

I actually have a set of the air tweeters that I was gonna try in the dakota a pillars. Got them from Parts Express I think. But I want to try the whole 3 way setup.

Precisionpower P 65C3 Speaker 200 w RMS 3 Way 1 Pack 20 Hz to 40 kHz | eBay


----------



## LeVeL

Here is how I plan to mount my Precision Power P65C3 3 ways in my 66 Lincoln Continental. The 6 1/2 " s didn't fit in the pods "to deep" so I put them together like a clam shell now they are sealed thanks to some silicone and the mids are are also in sealed pods designed for motercycle handle bars will be mounted ear level on the stainless steel sail pillars just waiting on the tweeter pods I ordered for the tweets to be mounted the dashboard. Where should I mount the 6 1/2 " s? In the kick panels or in the bottom front corner of the door cards for best sound.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Where's the photos of the Conti?!?!?! Love them. I never had a Lincoln, but did have a 67' Fleetwood that I sure regret selling. 
There is a black Continental right up the street from me. It's a corner auto shop that looks like they sell cars as well. The car had been sitting outside but they moved it inside and is being stored on a lift now. If I had cash I would make an offer.


----------



## Souths1der

I'm seriously considering these components. I currently have a JBL MS-A1004. After reading through this forum, if I go this route I can run the Mids and tweets passive (with the crossover) off 2 channels and the woofers off the the other 2 channels. I currently have no subwoofer, but hopefully will eventually get one. When that day comes, I would probably get a second MS-A1004 run these three components active and bridge the last 2 channels for a sub. I'm not looking to shatter records, just looking for quality.

Having said all that, I have a couple questions.

1. Will running 100W to the passive mid/tweet, and 100W to the woofer be enough?

2. If I go this route, where should I set crossover for the woofer?


----------



## Joesmoe

I have had these in my 2008 dodge ram for a few months now running off a t400-4 with the supplied crossover, and I'm am still in awe of how amazing these sound. I went back to buying cd's because it's just a shame to play any kind of compressed mp3's through them.


----------



## rton20s

Joesmoe, did you buy them through a local dealer or online? 

Just curious, as I am nearby and wasn't aware of any current PPI dealers.


----------



## Joesmoe

rton20s said:


> Joesmoe, did you buy them through a local dealer or online?
> 
> Just curious, as I am nearby and wasn't aware of any current PPI dealers.


I got them online, I was a little worried being that there was only one review in them at the time, but the price was right.


----------



## Big Boi

Joesmoe said:


> I have had these in my 2008 dodge ram for a few months now running off a t400-4 with the supplied crossover, and I'm am still in awe of how amazing these sound. I went back to buying cd's because it's just a shame to play any kind of compressed mp3's through them.


Where do you have the components mounted? And are you running them off the factory speaker wire or what?


----------



## Joesmoe

Big Boi said:


> Where do you have the components mounted? And are you running them off the factory speaker wire or what?


The midwoofers are in the factory door location on a 3/4 mdf adapter plate with the factory wiring because it's a pain in the ass to run new wires, the mid's are in the factory 3.5" spot on the dash in a 1/8 wood adapter plate and the tweeters are in a PVC end cap mount on the a-piller. Fairly stealth looking, I was surprised at how well the imaging came out, on some songs it sounds like the instruments are playing way out in front of the truck.


----------



## Souths1der

Joesmoe - Are you running that amp bridged 200x2 into the PPI's? I was also thinking of going full passive on the set too if giving them 200 watts would be better than what I had planned.


----------



## Joesmoe

Souths1der said:


> Joesmoe - Are you running that amp bridged 200x2 into the PPI's? I was also thinking of going full passive on the set too if giving them 200 watts would be better than what I had planned.


No I'm not running the amp bridged so the ppi set is only getting about 75 watts per channel and it gets loud almost to loud but they sound great all they way from 1 to 38 on my pioneer deck and even at that wattage they keep up with my dayton ho 15 sub.


----------



## Big Boi

Joesmoe said:


> The midwoofers are in the factory door location on a 3/4 mdf adapter plate with the factory wiring because it's a pain in the ass to run new wires, the mid's are in the factory 3.5" spot on the dash in a 1/8 wood adapter plate and the tweeters are in a PVC end cap mount on the a-piller. Fairly stealth looking, I was surprised at how well the imaging came out, on some songs it sounds like the instruments are playing way out in front of the truck.


Please please please... Pics? LoL


----------



## Joesmoe

Big Boi said:


> Please please please... Pics? LoL


I'll get some pics if I can get some free time this weekend.


----------



## Souths1der

What exactly does the contour switch on the crossover do, and in what situation would you need to change from the default it came out of the box?


----------



## Big Boi

Joesmoe said:


> I'll get some pics if I can get some free time this weekend.


Any luck?


----------



## Joesmoe

Big Boi said:


> Any luck?



Here's one of the tweeter but I haven't had any time to get pics of how the other speakers are mounted


----------



## Big Boi

I thought their supposed to be off axis?


----------



## Joesmoe

Souths1der said:


> What exactly does the contour switch on the crossover do, and in what situation would you need to change from the default it came out of the box?


Contour filters can either raise or lower the db output of a certain frequency level if I'm not mistaken, if like to know at what frequency the contour filter effects in these. I'm running my set with the filter on and have a slight dip around the 1.5khz range but pretty flat throughout the rest of the frequency range.


----------



## Joesmoe

Big Boi said:


> I thought their supposed to be off axis?


There slightly off access, I moved them around until I found what sounded best to me, they would be on access for somebody sitting in the middle of the truck.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Those look to be off axis. Aimed towards the opposite B pillars or so?


----------



## Joesmoe

These amt tweeters have a huge desperation angle. So a real true off axis would be difficult for me.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Aiming them towards each other is the only way. Or aiming them slightly in front of the listener towards the side windows. Anything more than that, and then the opposite side becomes on-axis. Now I'm wondering how I will aim mine. Towards the middle of the car would at least somewhat give the same angle to the ears for both tweets.
I think you did it right, move them until it sounds best.


----------



## Big Boi

Time for me to get some double sided tape and start playing around with placement...


----------



## Big Boi

What size speaker wire are you guys running with these?

I'm looking at 50 ft of the Knukonceptz Kord Ultra Flex 14 Gauge Speaker Wire @$22.50.

Overkill?


----------



## Joesmoe

I'm running 14 gauge but trying to get new wire to the door was just to damn difficult.


----------



## Big Boi

BradKnob has done it. Check his thread for info


----------



## Datsubishi

I'm in the process of changing speakers around in one of my vehicles right now, but this set would work perfect in one of my other rides. I was already interested in PPI's last rendition of their 3-ways, but these sound superior and still at a good price. I wish I didn't have all my spare money accounted for in the next 6 months on home improvements and other vehicle projects. Something else might have to take the back burner. 

Maiden69, install looks solid, thanks for bringing this set to everyone's attention. 

Ryan, thanks for all the info, answering everybody's questions and providing info for the inquiring minds. 

Everybody else, thanks for your specific views and experiences with this set.


----------



## Souths1der

I just took delivery today. Going to be a nice weekend project. Still can't decide what to do with them and my MS-A1004:

1. 100Wx2 to the woofers active, 100Wx2 to the mid/tweet passive with crossover
2. 200Wx2 to the whole set passive with the crossover.

I opened up the box already though, man those mids are small. Can't wait to hear them.


----------



## Big Boi

Souths1der said:


> I just took delivery today. Going to be a nice weekend project. Still can't decide what to do with them and my MS-A1004:
> 
> 1. 100Wx2 to the woofers active, 100Wx2 to the mid/tweet passive with crossover
> 2. 200Wx2 to the whole set passive with the crossover.
> 
> I opened up the box already though, man those mids are small. Can't wait to hear them.


Is it safe to overpower them by the 50watts?


----------



## Souths1der

I thought I read in one of the threads about these components that as long as you used the supplied crossover you could feed hem 250W per channel. I'll try and find it.


----------



## Souths1der

[email protected] said:


> You can give them a true 250watts RMS "IF" you use the supplied crossover. If not I will give you per speaker RMS ratings.
> 
> As far as tweeter location they have an amazing off axis response so my advise would put them where you are at least 90* on axis and you can adjust them from there by turning them (ei; changing the orientation of the pleats.)
> 
> You may need to turn on the midrange contour as well.


Unless I'm misunderstanding this and he means 250watts for both channels (125x2), I would be fine sending each side 200watts. I am leaning towards the active/passive combo though.


----------



## Big Boi

Good to know


----------



## MAIDEN69

Doesn't the box say 400w??? 
My system isn't running yet. Soon I hope. I'm running active with a RF 3sixty.3 
Using Knukonceptz Kord Kable 14awg for the mids & tweets. PG Titanium 500.4 will power them. Amp is rated @ 75w x4(4ohm)
The midbass's will be wired with 12awg Kord Kable and powered by a RF Punch 800A4 bridged down to 2chn. Rated power is 400 x2(4ohm)


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## Joesmoe

That punch 800a4 will be putting out more than 500x2 bridged, that's a powerful amp.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Joesmoe said:


> That punch 800a4 will be putting out more than 500x2 bridged, that's a powerful amp.


LOL. Yeah, I just quoted the rated power of it. I have a Power 800A2 that will push the two 8" Sundown Audio SD-2 subs. I know it does at least 1K watts bridged.
As far as the midbass drivers being driven by that amp, I just plan to have the gains real low.


----------



## rton20s

Joesmoe said:


> That punch 800a4 will be putting out more than 500x2 bridged, that's a powerful amp.


The Punch 800a4 was rated at 400w x 2 @ 4 Ohm @ 13.8 volts. Those Punch amps might have been underrated, but I don't think he'll be putting out more than 500w RMS. Even if he has 14.4 volts on tap. Peak, of course, is a different story. Then again, amps have gain pots for a reason.  Head room is a good thing.


----------



## LeVeL

I have the Precision Power P65C3 3 ways but not shore where to mount them I have a 66 Lincoln Continental and have made sealed pods for the 6.5s using two pods to make what i call a clam shell pod by using silicone to seal them should i mount them on the bottom front of the door panels or on the kick panels. Next i mounted the 3.5s in sealed chrome motercycle speaker pods that will look awesome mounted on the stainless steel front pillars ear level. But where should i mount the 2" ribbon tweets on the dash or on the pillars above the mids in some sort of pod I was thinking of a spray paint can lid painted chrome or find something similar that can be cut to match the contour of the pillars and have it chromed to match the mids


----------



## balane

I ordered a set today now I'm just waiting on them to get here. I've decided to use the three way passive crossover as it was designed and forgo my active set up since the head unit I have is only able run a 3 way system. The bright side is that now I'll be able to give each side 300 watts. 

The front drivers I've used for years, a Focal polyglass 6.5" and Vifa 1" silk dome, are finally being retired. I like this setup very much but I'm anxious to try something new at this point in time. The PPi set has been convincingly marketed.

The 6.5 will go in the stock location, low in the doors. The tweeters will go into the sail panels and the mids will go up high in the doors, a few inches from the tweeters. The tweeters will aim pretty much directly at each other. The mids will be aiming at the opposite side passenger's head.

I have a few questions.

1.) I can't seem to find a picture or list of box contents anywhere. Do these come with everything you need to install the kit? Screws, clips, speaker wires, etc.?

2.) I understand you can attenuate both the midrange and the tweeters with jumpers on the passive crossover. If I choose not to do this I can achieve the same thing with my head unit's equalizer? (DEH-80PRS) I'm hoping so because the passive crossovers will be sealed up inside my doors making adjustments a complicated process.

3.) Off subject a little bit but I'm worried about reflections from some trim around the sail panel. Does a product exist which would allow me to reduce the reflections? Something like a thin, adhesive backed pad that I could trim to size stick on the surfaces near the tweeter? Anything like this even exist?

I hope I like these, I want my sound to be very clinical and precise with minimal exaggeration. I'll definitely take some photos and post a review after they're installed and broken in. I have high hopes.


----------



## Bigfx

What's the best deal out there for these? I thinking I'm going to give them a shot


----------



## MAIDEN69

Just expect to pay $250 for the set. As far as what is in the box, all the drivers w/grilles and passive x-overs. No wire but it does have mounting screws.


----------



## Joesmoe

What are the little strips of rubber for that come with them?


----------



## MAIDEN69

You use it to secure the grilles on the drivers.


----------



## Bigfx

Took the plunge should get them next week


----------



## car8961

Try amazon , PPI P.65c3, overstock auto, apply for amazon card (not CHASE),get $10 off with 6 month finance, free shipping, pay $220.


----------



## Big T

Hey I got locked out when DIYMA wanted me to change my password but wouldnt take a new one Sorry..


----------



## thatboijdub

I order the P.65C3 and P900.4 this past week and can not wait to install them

Changing out my kicker KS65 comps, I needed a upgrade.


----------



## Bigfx

car8961 said:


> Try amazon , PPI P.65c3, overstock auto, apply for amazon card (not CHASE),get $10 off with 6 month finance, free shipping, pay $220.


I actually found them for 229 so I'm pretty happy hopefully they do a good job and complete my little setup. Now I just got to worry about the install :sweatdrop::sweatdrop::sweatdrop::uhoh::uhoh:


----------



## Souths1der

I installed mine over the weekend. Big improvement for me and they're not really installed properly. I'm running them with the passive crossovers off my JBL MS-A1004, bridged. Each side is getting 200w. They sound pretty frickin good. I have to get used to having such an in-your-face tweeter though. The bass is a nice surprise too. I think I can keep putting off getting a sub for a while.

Regarding the "installed properly" comment, I am apparently not good at creating baffles for the 6.5's to fit in my 6x9 opening. Tried for three hours and just couldn't do it. So right now they're mounted directly to the 6x9 openings in my door with big gaps above and below them. Still sound pretty damn good, I can only imagine what they'll sound like if I can get some baffles for them. I tried the metra type adapters, the hole in those is too small and I destroyed them trying to make it bigger. I just have to wait until I can find somebody to make me some.

Overall I'm very happy with the decision to get this set of components.


----------



## sirbOOm

What kind of car is this, I can probably make them pretty easily, especially if you send me your stock speaker.


----------



## SQLnovice

For $230 these would be good for me to experiment as a first 3 way active setup.


----------



## chunkylover53

Would these speakers sound ok with 100wrms to each side? Or do they really need more.


----------



## Big T

chunkylover53 said:


> Would these speakers sound ok with 100wrms to each side? Or do they really need more.



They are very efficient I think they would sound good on on 100 watts.


----------



## Souths1der

sirbOOm said:


> What kind of car is this, I can probably make them pretty easily, especially if you send me your stock speaker.


It's a 2013 Ram 1500 Quad Cab. The original speakers are long gone, but I do have one of the 6x9 adapters that I used for the Infinity's that these PPI's replaced. They fit perfectly... if only the cutouts for the 6.5 were large enough to accommodate the PPI woofer.


----------



## etroze

If you have a dremel with a sanding barrel it will take that abs plastic down really quick. Other wise PM me with an address and I can see what I could cut for you this week out of 1/2in mdf.


----------



## Big Boi

thatboijdub said:


> I order the P.65C3 and P900.4 this past week and can not wait to install them
> 
> Changing out my kicker KS65 comps, I needed a upgrade.


That just seals the deal 4 me. That's the exact Kicker set I was going to buy, until I saw the light!


----------



## thatboijdub

Big Boi said:


> That just seals the deal 4 me. That's the exact Kicker set I was going to buy, until I saw the light!


They will be delivered tomorrow, the P900.4 came this weekend and if everything goes right I will install them on Wednesday. Big T setup sold me on these after I had done a lot of reading on them. 

Are you going active or passive?


----------



## Big Boi

thatboijdub said:


> They will be delivered tomorrow, the P900.4 came this weekend and if everything goes right I will install them on Wednesday. Big T setup sold me on these after I had done a lot of reading on them.
> 
> Are you going active or passive?


For now passive. I'm new to the whole SQ scene, and don't want the added hrs or tuning right now.


----------



## Souths1der

I should probably re-read this whole thread, but I'm being lazy. At one point somebody said the tweeters are "better off axis". I think what the actual case is, is that they perform very well off-axis, but like any tweeter they may be better on-axis. Can somebody confirm?


----------



## Big Boi

Souths1der said:


> I installed mine over the weekend. Big improvement for me and they're not really installed properly. I'm running them with the passive crossovers off my JBL MS-A1004, bridged. Each side is getting 200w. They sound pretty frickin good. I have to get used to having such an in-your-face tweeter though. The bass is a nice surprise too. I think I can keep putting off getting a sub for a while.
> 
> Regarding the "installed properly" comment, I am apparently not good at creating baffles for the 6.5's to fit in my 6x9 opening. Tried for three hours and just couldn't do it. So right now they're mounted directly to the 6x9 openings in my door with big gaps above and below them. Still sound pretty damn good, I can only imagine what they'll sound like if I can get some baffles for them. I tried the metra type adapters, the hole in those is too small and I destroyed them trying to make it bigger. I just have to wait until I can find somebody to make me some.
> 
> Overall I'm very happy with the decision to get this set of components.


Do you have any pics of the install?


----------



## [email protected]

Souths1der said:


> I should probably re-read this whole thread, but I'm being lazy. At one point somebody said the tweeters are "better off axis". I think what the actual case is, is that they perform very well off-axis, but like any tweeter they may be better on-axis. Can somebody confirm?


Yes somewhere that got misconstrued. It is great off axis response but of course on axis is much better. This tweeter works well in just about any location, thats the beauty of it.


----------



## Big Boi

[email protected] said:


> Yes somewhere that got misconstrued. It is great off axis response but of course on axis is much better. This tweeter works well in just about any location, thats the beauty of it.


Definitely misconstrued, LoL.

I was disappointed that I couldn't aim them towards the driver and passenger headrests. Not that I know I can.....


----------



## [email protected]

vulgamore89 said:


> Would the tweeters be able to be mounted in a PVC end cap to use in the pillars do you think? What mounting hardware comes with it for the tweets?


The tweeters just have a spin nut on the back. You could if you can secure them I don't see why that wouldn't work.


----------



## Big Boi

[email protected] said:


> The tweeters just have a spin nut on the back. You could if you can secure them I don't see why that wouldn't work.


Will this work?


----------



## balane

> *UPS*
> Redmond, WA, United States	09/18/2014	6:28 A.M.	Out For Delivery


Yay!


----------



## MAIDEN69

Well I've been all over this thread from the beginning. From what I've read, like Ryan confirmed, the design of the AMT makes them perform well off axis. Any tweeter can be aimed on axis as can this AMT. The question will be if it makes them too bright. And that can be a case by case basis depending on both the vehicle and the listeners personal taste. It may be the case with these as well(I'm yet to hear mine). Which can be corrected by going off axis to tame them down. The advantage of this design over some others is that you have a lot of wiggle room in your aiming due to how well these disperse sound off axis. So you can aim them right at you or aim them seriously off axis and anywhere in between. I plan to have mine in spheres where I can rotate them until it sounds best. It may be right at the listeners, or it may be aimed across from each other. I think these just give you more flexibility of both tuning by aiming, and dealing with limited install options. If all you can do is mount them off axis, then they will still perform well unlike some others that may need to be on axis to sound good.
The best option will ALWAYS be to play with their aiming until you find what sounds best to YOU.


----------



## Sparrow

Souths1der said:


> It's a 2013 Ram 1500 Quad Cab. The original speakers are long gone, but I do have one of the 6x9 adapters that I used for the Infinity's that these PPI's replaced. They fit perfectly... if only the cutouts for the 6.5 were large enough to accommodate the PPI woofer.


I'm a little confused, are you saying the PPI 6.5" will not fit inside your door? To think about it, the PPI does appear to have a large basket frame.

I have a 2013 Chrysler 200, very similar... 6x9" door speakers with a carrier plate (ABS plastic?) and not much clearance between the door panel and card.

I guess I should take some measruements


----------



## etroze

Make your own adapters the PPI has a 5.75 cutout which is larger than a normal stamped steel basket. Plus using mdf will add a lot mor structure to that opening than the abs plastic will.


----------



## Souths1der

Sparrow said:


> I'm a little confused, are you saying the PPI 6.5" will not fit inside your door? To think about it, the PPI does appear to have a large basket frame.
> 
> I have a 2013 Chrysler 200, very similar... 6x9" door speakers with a carrier plate (ABS plastic?) and not much clearance between the door panel and card.
> 
> I guess I should take some measruements


They will fit. They just didn't fit the off the shelf ABS plastic metra 6x9 -> 6.5 adapter plates because the cutout is too small.


----------



## balane

I worked all evening and finally got the driver's side installed. I had a Focal 6V2S Polyglass mid installed before and this PPi midbass is larger and I had to make a baffle for my door. It was about a 1/4" too large to fit in the plastic housing. This is where my drivers are going to be. The tweeter is fairly off axis. I'm going to put some thin carpeting on the dash and A-pillar directly in front of the tweeter to help with reflections. This is the first 3 way set I've installed and it was a major pain. Excuse my dirty car, I'm not cleaning it until I get both sides installed.

*I have a question.* The mid and midbass were both labeled for electrical polarity. The tweeter only had wires coming out of it, there were no markings on it anywhere for polarity. There was no mention of this anywhere in the packaging or paperwork either. There is a gold colored and silver colored wire coming from it. Does anybody know which color wire would be the positive lead? Before I start tuning all this I want every driver on the same page.

Thanks.


----------



## Kriszilla

Gold is typically the positive wire.


----------



## creed

PPI website stated 94db 1w/1m whiel Passmag test report in PPI website stated 86.8db 1/1m, why there is such a big variance and if it's as sensitive as PPI stated I believe a 50watts would do perfectly fine.

Interested to get a set but have to clarify on the sensitivity, although I skewed more towards the Passmag rating but would like to hear some comment


----------



## balane

Mine are now installed completely and I spent a few hours with tuning, I'm probably 80% there on that. I'm using the passive crossover for all three drivers and each side is getting 300 watts.

I like the way it sounds very much, let's get that out of the way. I consider this a very well spent $250. I had Focal 6.75" Polyglass mids and Vifa 1" silk dome tweeters running fully active before and it has been tuned and retuned for a long time now. I like the sound of the new set up better even just after a quick few adjustments. I'm not a pro sound judge or anything like that but I know what I like and don't like and have put stereos in my cars since the mid-80's. (I know that doesn't have to mean much but I'm picky over how things sound.)

The first disc I reach for always is Tom Petty to see how his voice sounds. If his nasally vocal range is ear piercing and hurtful I cut those frequencies until he sounds good. I definitely had to cut those bands on these speakers, one band as much as -3dB. Tom sounds great now and that means David Byrne sounds good too. I like kick drums that punch so I typically boost around 60Hz and this setup needed that as well, about +2db there. Other than that things are pretty flat on the EQ.

My tweeters are in the sail panels and those have immediate hard plastic surfaces sticking out perpendicular to the tweeters on two sides. The tweeters were overwhelming at first and I could tell there were a lot of early reflections happening there that needed to be dealt with. I glued down some trimmed trunk carpet pieces to cover those reflective surfaces and the tweeters now sound amazing. Really, they sound fantastic. The tonality of the system sounds very nice to my ears overall.

My sub stage is a Dayton HO in a .75 cu/ft ported box tuned at 33 Hz. One thing I was disappointed with was that, at louder volumes on certain songs, the PPi 6.75" drivers would bottom out at 63Hz, I tried again at 80Hz and, still, I could get them to overextend. So, in my car, they had to be high passed at 100 Hz. (Edit: I need to add that this wasn't happening at what anybody would call extremely high volume levels either. In no way was I pushing them beyond any reasonable expectation, I don't particularly enjoy ridiculously loud music.) There was just no getting around that. Fortunately it wasn't a really bad thing and my sub still blends well, the low content still appears to be coming from the front. Sub is low-passed at 80Hz, 12db cut.

I do not feel these separates stage as well as my old setup. They're not bad but staging has definitely taken a little step backwards. My drivers are in different locations now so that certainly would be playing a role in this. 

The PPi speakers are definitely very dynamic, it took a bit for me to get used to because my old speakers were more a laid-back, mellow sound that I liked. The more I listen to these, however, the more I'm starting to like them. I'm looking for the right word here but I wish these were just a little more clinical or dry sounding. I like musical instruments to be compartmentalized and easily identifiable as separate entities. These could use a little more work, in my opinion, on that as well. All of this could easily be a part of installation and current tuning. I know I still have work to do on that. Let me add the stage is wide and deep, it's very nice in that regard. In my car the image is about shoulder level which is decent.

But, I don't want to down talk these too much because they do sound fantastic and I spent an extra hour and a half sitting in my car listening to music than I intended to.

I have a small gripe or two on the packaging I want to mention. Number 1, the crossovers are stacked in their Styrofoam recess. Getting the bottom one out was a miserable ordeal and took tools to not break the packaging. Honestly, it was a pain that I didn't forget. Loosen that area up a little please!! Price is amazing so I won't complain about leaving out suitable speaker wire but I will say that information in the printed material needs to better. Passive crossover detailed information would be great, I still have no idea what the crossover points and slopes are. Another beef I have is that both the woofer and mid are marked for polarity but nowhere could I find how the tweeter is wired for electrical polarity. Not on the tweeter or anywhere in the box or paperwork. There is a gold wire and a silver wire but how are we supposed to know which is which?

Would I be happy at $1000? Probably not nearly as much but I think they could pass for a much more expensive set. I would be pleased at $600 to be perfectly honest. At $250 I'm completely blown away. I don't regret this driver change in my car one bit and I can't wait to get some road time with them.


----------



## car8961

I haven't installed the 6.5" yet. First I tried the mids and tweets with the current Elate 6.5". The mids were in pvc on the floor aimed to the dome light and the tweets on the dash. Sounded nice with better staging than my 2 way. At the moment I have CDT ES-04(sealed pvc) in the mid slot with the Elates 6.5's and tweets with the PPI passive X-over. It is verrry good. Much more experimenting to go.


----------



## Big T

Balane. Try setting your high pass to 85. That seemed to be the magic number for me.


----------



## balane

OK, cool. I'll have to use the xover on my amp to achieve that but I don't see a problem there. I'll mess around with that.


----------



## Souths1der

Big T - You're running active, what wattage are you sending to each component?


----------



## balane

I just wasn't as happy with the PPi midbass as I was with my Focal set. I couldn't deny that. So I made some changes. I put the Focals back in the lower doors and crossed them over actively at 63Hz and also low passed actively. The mids and tweeters in the PPi set are high passed actively (I'm still working on the best crossover point between the Focals and the mid/tweet combo. I do like having some adjustability back.) and I have the PPi passive crossover splitting the signal between the mid and tweeter. This has worked out very well and the sound is better. I'm completely pleased with this setup. The Focal midbass are getting 75 watts and the mids/tweeters are sharing 75 watts as well.

I don't know what I'm going to do with the PPI midbass drivers though, I guess I'll just stick them on my car audio cemetery shelf.


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## Big T

I have 2 Phantom P900.4s, so each driver is on its own 145watt channel. That being said, I have a DEQ8 processor which we use to adjust each drivers level so we aren't running the whole 145 watts to it. I would guess 50 watts would do fine.


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## Joesmoe

I have mine crossed at about 85hz also seemed to be the right place for mine wich worked great with my sub playing up to 100hz but now I'm in the market for a new sub "how the hell does a voice coil former rip in half".


----------



## Big Boi

Temporarily got mine installed for a road trip. Happy with them so far, but for some reason I expected a lil more bass. Especially after reading a review here that someone said they were holding off on installing a subwoofer now. Due to the bass response of this set.

My question is regarding the switchable clips on the crossovers. Being that I'm fairly new to the whole SQ audiophile scene. In layman's terms, can you tell me what the difference will be by moving the red clips around. Thx


----------



## balane

One will make the entire tweeter output 3db down.

The other one, midrange contour, will make a specific frequency range of midrange out put more quiet by 3db.

I have both of mine set to the -3dB. I thought it sounded better that way.


----------



## Souths1der

When I had mine using the passive crossovers I had both set for -3db as well. Sounded much better.

As for the bass, I believe it was probably one of my posts where I said the bass was so good I could put off getting a sub for a while. I still agree with that statement. However, I've come to find out that it really depends on the song. Which is more telling of the song quality or production than the speakers. It has made me wonder about my setup though. I only have my front speakers tapped. As I said, most songs have great bass, others don't, so I am getting a full signal. But now I wonder if some songs are recorded in 4-channel (or whatever, I'm no recording/audio pro so I don't know terms) and the bass signals of the songs are sent to rear channels. In which case I wouldn't get bass. I don't know if this is even a thing, just something I thought about because of he big difference in bass with some songs.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Big Boi said:


> Temporarily got mine installed for a road trip. Happy with them so far, but for some reason I expected a lil more bass. Especially after reading a review here that someone said they were holding off on installing a subwoofer now. Due to the bass response of this set.
> 
> My question is regarding the switchable clips on the crossovers. Being that I'm fairly new to the whole SQ audiophile scene. In layman's terms, can you tell me what the difference will be by moving the red clips around. Thx


First off, temporarily mounted doesn't sound good. Especially if you are judging them already. With any quality of speaker, especially where midbass and bass performance is concerned, the install is everything. The best drivers won't perform as well as they could in a sub par install. Just the same, cheap speakers could still perform to their max if installed properly. It's well known that midbass can be improved simply by proper install of the drivers and other tricks. Like treating the doors with CLD, CCF, & MLV. Not sure how or where yours are mounted, but I'm thinking you should hold off judgment until you finish your install. Plus, this is not a fullrange speaker system. Anyone expecting to run these fullrange without a separate subwoofer should expect poor bass output and most likely blown woofers down the road!

Did you see the effort I put in to mount my woofers and midrange drivers in my doors? And the treatment I did to the doors? With everything I did, I expect really good midbass performance, but certainly don't expect good Bass performance out of them. I will most likely run them down to about 100hz and let my Sundown SD-2 8"s handle below that.
Not bashing you, just food for thought. Good luck with the rest of the install.


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## Souths1der

After a few weeks with this setup, I'm not sure I like the tweeters. Maybe I go t a bad set, or maybe I blew them already (I don't know what a blown tweeter would sound like). There just seems to be too much, I don't know, noise, coming from them. And it localizes the tweeter. I believe I have delay set properly because my stage is right there in the center, good midrange and bass sounds. Some songs sound great and I can't hear the noise, other songs sound horrible. Maybe these AMT tweeters aren't for me. I primarily listen to rock, heavy metal, classic rock, alt rock..see a trend. I may buy a set of tweeters to just throw in and see whats up. Any thoughts on a good set of tweeters for my type of music for around $100?


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## sirbOOm

With a good audio setup sometimes you hear the noise in music. 

But did you check the same songs on another stereo?


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## Datsubishi

Is there any jumpers on the xover to allow for tweeter attenuation? Also a little eq in the right place could knock a some of a specific frequency out that could be bothering you. Even try the high frequency or treble adjustment on the deck to take out some highs. 
You could be looking at a nasty reflection off something nearby. Maybe wrap some towels into a Horn kind of shape around them to test if early reflections are causing them to be easily localized.


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## [email protected]

Thats the deal with the AMT, after weeks of listening you will find that you hear things you never heard before and that just the AMT's accuracy. It plays with a different kind of dynamic, your used to your mids, and mid bass being dynamic but not a tweeter. These you can really feel. And for some this just might not be the tweeter for you. Even Gary said the same thing, they aren't for everyone. They are however extremely accurate and sometimes people conceive that as a problem, its not a problem its just the recording.


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## mpednault

Alright, this set running passive off a P900.4. I'd use channels 1/2 to power them and bridge channels 3/4 to a sub. No rear speakers. Totals $450.

ORRRRRR

Go with an active 3-way using Dayton AMT Mini-8, RS100, RS180 drivers powered by a PPI 340.4 to power the tweets and mids and a 520.4 (midbass & sub, bridge 3/4). Totals $250. (reduced due to already owning the 340.4 and the RS100).

I haven't decided on a sub yet but it would be under the rear seat. It's a double cab. I still have the sealed box I made for my two Pioneer iB-flat 10" that sounded decent. I may just go with another pair of those.

I had a Dayton ND20, RS100 & RS180 active 3-way using the above amps in my last Tundra and LOVED it. But I'm always interested in hearing what else is out there.

I've bought a 2014 Tundra and the stock system ain't cuttin' it... So, would these impress me enough to justify the additional $200 over the Dayton 3-way?


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## sirbOOm

mpednault said:


> I've bought a 2014 Tundra and the stock system ain't cuttin' it... So, would these impress me enough to justify the additional $200 over the Dayton 3-way?


The stock system in Tundras is TERRIBLE... we're replacing them all the time and often its the customer's first ever visit into the car audio realm. Apparently they do not get vary loud - like... annoyingly so.


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## mpednault

My 2008 Tundra's audio system was absolutely useless. The 2014 is only marginally better. I've listened to it for 3 months now and my ears are annoyed...


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## Lycancatt

I really like that ppi had the balls to do something different and y all accounts make it work and sound great. amt is not new technology but it is new to some and really is a different sound.

The comment about not getting loud puts me off though, I don't listen loud often but when I do, the rig better play nice..can you elaborate on "they do not get loud" comments?


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## bgalaxy

They get plenty loud. As my wife say,s she wants to be able to sing and not hear herself  Her daily driver is a 150db low end monster. Plenty of balls to hear the music with the windows down at freeway speed.


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## Lycancatt

yeah, that's why I wanted the person who said they didn't get loud to elaborate, I was surprised by that comment.


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## Joesmoe

Lycancatt said:


> I really like that ppi had the balls to do something different and y all accounts make it work and sound great. amt is not new technology but it is new to some and really is a different sound.
> 
> The comment about not getting loud puts me off though, I don't listen loud often but when I do, the rig better play nice..can you elaborate on "they do not get loud" comments?


Mine get front row rock concert loud, really unsafe listening levels, but it's nice to be able to get that loud if I want.


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## Lycancatt

hehehe there was only one person who said they don't get loud, so its more likely install related. I don't need concert levels..i get that at work but dynamics and enjoyable involvement are important to me.


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## Joesmoe

After rereading the not loud comment, I think he's talking about the tundra Stocks system.


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## Souths1der

[email protected] said:


> Thats the deal with the AMT, after weeks of listening you will find that you hear things you never heard before and that just the AMT's accuracy. It plays with a different kind of dynamic, your used to your mids, and mid bass being dynamic but not a tweeter. These you can really feel. And for some this just might not be the tweeter for you. Even Gary said the same thing, they aren't for everyone. They are however extremely accurate and sometimes people conceive that as a problem, its not a problem its just the recording.


I think what I'm finding is that it's the type of music that makes to biggest difference. I was listening to classic rock today and the tweeters were amazing. I put on some old school Saliva which I could always play really loud and man all I could hear were the tweeters. When I hit a song where the sensitivity of these tweeters really shows what should I d? Should I have a special pre-set for these moments hat attenuates the proper frequencies? If so, what would be the best freqs to lower and how much?


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## Souths1der

Lycancatt said:


> yeah, that's why I wanted the person who said they didn't get loud to elaborate, I was surprised by that comment.


I started out using the passives feeding them 200w and they were plenty loud and sounded awesome. I have since gone active and am still dialing them in, but they're still loud.


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## LeVeL

OK people are saying not to run a rear channel just a front stage so I have a Infinity kappa 4 at 125watts x4 how do I run the Precision Power P65C3 3 ways active. Use front channels run in the crossovers to power the mids and tweets and use the rear channels to power the 6.5 subs how do i set up the amp for this and can the 6.5s handle 125watts each and can the 3" mids and 3/4" tweets handle the other 125watts?


----------



## Souths1der

LeVeL said:


> OK people are saying not to run a rear channel just a front stage so I have a Infinity kappa 4 at 125watts x4 how do I run the Precision Power P65C3 3 ways active. Use front channels run in the crossovers to power the mids and tweets and use the rear channels to power the 6.5 subs how do i set up the amp for this and can the 6.5s handle 125watts each and can the 3" mids and 3/4" tweets handle the other 125watts?


Yes you could do it that way. No, the 125w shouldn't be a problem. I was feeding them 200w through the passive crossover and they were fine.


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## bgalaxy

Power wise, I currently run a Reference 4.920 to the AMT and 3's and then a 2.640 to the 6's 

I think the hardest part when first getting these speakers is the amount of detail they bring in. It's almost too much. You can hear detail differently then other drivers. It takes a bit to process what you like and what is too much. Being a drummer, I can hear things in a good recording that I haven't heard before. Some of these things can be noises within the drum its self. It take a bit to get accustom to the changes in the source material


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## balane

I thought mine got plenty loud but I'm old so my opinion may be biased.

I'm going back to a two way fully active set of front comps though. I just missed being active too much. I put my 65C3 it up in the classifieds section if anybody is looking for a set of these.

I do have a bunch of larger resolution photos of the drivers and kit up in that posting so anybody may wish to look at those who is considering these speakers.


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## Grizz Archer

LeVeL said:


> OK people are saying not to run a rear channel just a front stage so I have a Infinity kappa 4 at 125watts x4 how do I run the Precision Power P65C3 3 ways active. Use front channels run in the crossovers to power the mids and tweets and use the rear channels to power the 6.5 subs how do i set up the amp for this and can the 6.5s handle 125watts each and can the 3" mids and 3/4" tweets handle the other 125watts?


You can run just front speakers, but people that tell you to do this do not understand ambiance. I used to be like that many years ago. But I would never build an SQ system without rear speakers for ambiance, even if they are the stock drivers. At the proper level, they are not really heard directly, but it makes a monumental improvement for stage when you can hear the "room".


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## Big T

Exactly as Grizz said. I use a JBL MS8 to power and process logic 7 on my rear stage. Kinda radical to have 2 processors but the logic 7 is incredible what it does for the rear. But we hated it on the front. 
Grizz. You coming to finals?


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## Grizz Archer

No sir. I wish, but in between jobs right now.


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## MAIDEN69

I thought you were part of that new company Audio Frog. Think that was the name.


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## Grizz Archer

MAIDEN69 said:


> I thought you were part of that new company Audio Frog. Think that was the name.


I was, but no longer. Just did not work out. Too early for a guy like me to be on the payroll.


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## 1fishman

Big T said:


> Exactly as Grizz said. I use a JBL MS8 to power and process logic 7 on my rear stage. Kinda radical to have 2 processors but the logic 7 is incredible what it does for the rear. But we hated it on the front.
> Grizz. You coming to finals?


Sounds interesting, Ive played with different delays on the rear speakers and really enjoyed it. but i only used it below the lower frequencies. 

What Frequency do you guys run your rear channels for good ambiance?


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## Grizz Archer

1fishman said:


> Sounds interesting, Ive played with different delays on the rear speakers and really enjoyed it. but i only used it below the lower frequencies.
> 
> What Frequency do you guys run your rear channels for good ambiance?


Good question, but I am not sure there is a truly correct answer. Here's why…

I studied how the ear work way back in my MTX days 20 years ago. The study was based on how ears work, how ears differ and what effect sound to our ears. 

The short answer to you question, for me, is about 4k low pass. That is ONLY for me and not a suggestion. As you know, higher frequencies are increasingly directional. The shape of our ears radically changes how we hear music.

Do this… Turn on some music while you read this. Then cup your hands behind you ears, like extensions. The music will get louder and kinda more or less detailed as you change the shape of your hands. Now, turn your head away from the computer and listen. You will notice less high end and when you cups your hands, you will notice less output as well.

I have a friend with big cupped ears. He can hear a bug fart on another planet! I have fairly normal shaped ears and cannot hear as acutely as him, I think.

Anyway, this is why I feel there is no definitive answer. I chose 4k-ish because, for my ears, I did not hear much above that behind me anyway. It was a waste and notes subtle.


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## LeVeL

OK so do run rear speakers do ii run coaxials, components, mid bass , or sub? I have decided on 6.5 in the rear deck and with amp 125 x4 at 4 ohms and 150 x4 at 2 ohms so of course I am running Precision Power P65C3 3 ways up front so would it sound better with Precision Power P65C3 3 ways in rear deck also. I have not heard the same thing from people when it comes to the rear channels. I have heard dont run rear chanels, do run, run coaxials, components, 2 way, 3 way, mid bass, sub 6.5"s speakers so anyone understand my confusion. Also if i can run Precision Power P65C3 3 ways or Mid bass or Sub woofer in the rear deck can I flip the 6.5 upside down on rear deck to make the same bass as mounted flush?


----------



## Big T

OK Guys. 
As a lot of you know I was at the Unified Car Audio world Finals last weekend in Nashville. Was a great weekend. I got 
2nd place in USACi AMA 1sq+
I set the USACi Ama 1SQ+ Legal SPL World Record

1 place in IASCA PRoAm IQC (install)
Tied for first in RTA/SPL 
And won Triple Crown which is the top award. Sound, install, RtA, and SPL combined.

My wife got 1st in IASCA AMA 

All this with the new components

Install


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## rton20s

Congratulations to yourself and your wife.


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## Big T

Thank you.


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## Joesmoe

That's awsome, and this wasn't with super expensive gear either, so I say ppi gave us regular joes sq on more of a beer budget


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## Big T

Yes sir


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## kkreit01

Great job Big T!


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## lizardking

Nice......and without exotic equipment. Maybe some will finally realize it's not how much you spend.


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## rton20s

You're kidding right? This entire site was predicated on the fact that you don't have to spend a ton of money to get great sound.


----------



## subwoofery

Big T said:


> OK Guys.
> As a lot of you know I was at the Unified Car Audio world Finals last weekend in Nashville. Was a great weekend. I got
> 2nd place in USACi AMA 1sq+
> I set the USACi Ama 1SQ+ Legal SPL World Record
> 
> 1 place in IASCA PRoAm IQC (install)
> Tied for first in RTA/SPL
> And won Triple Crown which is the top award. Sound, install, RtA, and SPL combined.
> 
> My wife got 1st in IASCA AMA
> 
> All this with the new components
> 
> Install


Your whole system has PPI equipment? Just wondering 

Kelvin


----------



## lizardking

rton20s said:


> You're kidding right? This entire site was predicated on the fact that you don't have to spend a ton of money to get great sound.


You're right it was......was.


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## rton20s

lizardking said:


> You're right it was......was.


You're right. I never see anyone talking about using raw drivers or sourcing less expensive amplifiers with the same board as more expensive brands.


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## sirbOOm

It's how much you spend... time that is.


----------



## rton20s

sirbOOm said:


> It's how much you spend... time that is.


...sigh... ain't that the truth.


----------



## Grizz Archer

LeVeL said:


> OK so do run rear speakers do ii run coaxials, components, mid bass , or sub? I have decided on 6.5 in the rear deck and with amp 125 x4 at 4 ohms and 150 x4 at 2 ohms so of course I am running Precision Power P65C3 3 ways up front so would it sound better with Precision Power P65C3 3 ways in rear deck also. I have not heard the same thing from people when it comes to the rear channels. I have heard dont run rear chanels, do run, run coaxials, components, 2 way, 3 way, mid bass, sub 6.5"s speakers so anyone understand my confusion. Also if i can run Precision Power P65C3 3 ways or Mid bass or Sub woofer in the rear deck can I flip the 6.5 upside down on rear deck to make the same bass as mounted flush?


No need for fancy components in the rear. You can run components, coaxials or in many cases, just a midrange. Depends on what you might end up liking. I've done cars and had them spend their limited budget on better from speakers and used the OEM rear speakers for fill. They worked just fine.


----------



## Big T

Correct. I run the Art components in the rear of the truck and Power Class 6x9s in the wife's car and they both so very well. 

Missed Ya this weekend Grizz


----------



## Grizz Archer

Would have loved to be there. Depending on if my next job is in the industry, I might make it there next year. Congrats!


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## [email protected]

Would have been fun with you there brother. It was great weekend capped off by great results. Have to say it was nice to see some leave with their tails between their legs as well.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Curious how the SQ events are judged. Can someone explain? Is it done by ear by multiple judges? 
I'm curious as the reviews of these AMT tweeters has been that they are different sounding and most need time to let them grow on them. Yet here we are seeing them win SQ events. Are cars tested by RTAs then??
I'm yet to get my system going. Will still be a while. I'm sure I will like mine but admit I have several sets of ND25 and 25a silk tweeters as back ups. I know I like those.


----------



## [email protected]

MAIDEN69 said:


> Curious how the SQ events are judged. Can someone explain? Is it done by ear by multiple judges?
> I'm curious as the reviews of these AMT tweeters has been that they are different sounding and most need time to let them grow on them. Yet here we are seeing them win SQ events. Are cars tested by RTAs then??
> I'm yet to get my system going. Will still be a while. I'm sure I will like mine but admit I have several sets of ND25 and 25a silk tweeters as back ups. I know I like those.


Multiple judges, you can do RTA if you choose. Competition is all about install and tuning over what gear you run. People win all the time using different brands. 

AMT's do sound alittle different than your typical dome tweet. I like mine in my Martin Logan home speakers.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Didn't realize ML was using those. Curious what the difference is versus a pleated ribbon design like the newer Carvers. Love me some ribbons! The Bob Carver Amazing Platinum speakers from the 80's were just that, amazing.


----------



## [email protected]

MAIDEN69 said:


> Didn't realize ML was using those. Curious what the difference is versus a pleated ribbon design like the newer Carvers. Love me some ribbons! The Bob Carver Amazing Platinum speakers from the 80's were just that, amazing.


The ML's I have are not the electrostats or anything on that level. They are the ones that were in the hot deals section some time ago. I can not remember the line off the top of my head. The tweeter is the best thing about them


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## MAIDEN69

Motions? I'm sure they are sweet. I had a pair of their electrostatics years ago. They are great but tough to setup. I had to have them way off the wall in my room to image right. It interfered with my 96" screen so I sold them. I ended up with Energy Veritas. Nowhere near the speakers but they image like no other! But they have their limits and can't be pushed like ribbons/electrostats/planars can. 
Anxious to hear these PPI's play.


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## [email protected]

Yes, Motions


----------



## Grizz Archer

[email protected] said:


> Would have been fun with you there brother. It was great weekend capped off by great results. Have to say it was nice to see some leave with their tails between their legs as well.


Yeah, would have been a blast!


----------



## Lunchbox89

Damn. I want these bad. Are the bass drivers better or on par with the jbl ms62c? Thanks.


----------



## Big T

I cant say cause I haven't heard the JBL but done right there do all you want


----------



## [email protected]

You would not want to mix and match these speakers. They are built to compliment each driver with the other ones in the set. If you get them you will be very pleased with the sound.


----------



## LeVeL

If i use the crossovers with the mids and tweets powered on the same channel and the 6.5s subs on a separate channel. Will the OHMS of the mids and tweets drop from 4 to a total of 2 OHMs? Also the mids are 50 watts rms and the tweeters are 25 watts rms with a total of 75 watts rms. Would it make more sense to keep the Infinity kappa 125 watts X 4 to power the rear 125watt 6x9s and the front with 125 watts for the 6.5 subs. Buy a separate 2 channel amplifier with 75 watts rms x2 to power the mids and tweets with the exact power needed instead of over powering them with 50 extra watts witch doesn't sound like much but with the tweeters at 25 watts rms I know a extra 50 watts can and will easily damage them permanently. Also what sold me on these components was the tweeters ability to hit the previously unheard of top end of 40,000 hz! I think most people are forgetting that just because the tweets are capable of hitting 40,000 hz they will not unless your amplifier can produce 40,000 hz or more. Most stop at 20,000hz with a lot less to get more than 30,000hz! Also should i loosely fill the sealed 6.5 sub pods or the 3" mids pods with poly fill like all other sealed boxs?


----------



## LeVeL

I found a 4 channel amplifier more suited for the mid ant tweeters power requirements.With 60 watts rms X 4 channel amplifier ccapable of producing 50,000 hz to give the 40,000 hz ribbon tweeters the freedom to break glass as intended. And has separate front and rear high and low pass filters so the components can run active. With 60 watts per channel to power the 3" mids and tweeters separately.A 2nd amp with 125 watts X 4 to power the rear 6x9 mid bass and the front 6.5" sub for the components. I know the ribbon tweeter is only 25 watts but a extra 25watts is better than 50 to 75 extra watts that they would have with the original system i was planning. Both the amps and head unit have crossovers so witch one do i use to dial my sterio in with? My head unit is a 2014 Kenwood Excelon DNX 891HD. I am getting very close to installing my system. I have been researching, planning and buying the best equipment I could afford for over a year now. I can't wait to hear the rewards of everything i have done in the name of Sound Quality perpouse built High Fedelity Audiophile grade system!


----------



## MAIDEN69

Just turn the gains down if you think you are overpowering the drivers. I am running fully active on all the drivers. Using a PG Titanium 500.4 to power the mids and tweets. It's rated at 75x4 but is a bit underrated. I would run them with a 100x4 amp if that's what I had available. Just turn the gains down. That's part of the setup/tuning process.
My midbass drivers will be powered by a RF Power 800A4 in bridged mode. That will be 400w a driver! I just plan to turn the gains way down during the setup and tuning and have no worries of hurting them.


----------



## Lunchbox89

Yay. My set is in the mail headed my way. Finally. I've been dieing to try these for a good while now.


----------



## Big T

Hey guys, I can get the DEQ8 at a killer price for a couple of weeks. These are new with warranty. If anyone wants me to order you one PM me for more info


----------



## MAIDEN69

Finally finished the second door pod for the mid & midbass. Need to wrap up the rest of the door deadening and mount it up. Move on to the subs enclosures and amp rack.
Tweeter spheres still need to be painted and I am yet to figure out how I'm going to mount them to the pillars.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Red is right, black is left.


----------



## Lunchbox89

Wtf!!!!!! I got my set in today. And I was testing them with my installer before we threw them in and the midwoofer was either blown or blew. It started carackleing after about 5-7 min of play time they started off great then slowly started crackling. We were testing on my pgti21000.4. Wtf!!!! I'm so pissed. They never got anything over 150rms. hopefully sonic will warranty them. Any input on what might have happened?


----------



## Big T

Did you try swapping the mid bass with the other one?


----------



## Lunchbox89

Big T said:


> Did you try swapping the mid bass with the other one?


No. We hooked them up as they should have been. No swapping. I got in contact with sonic and there fantastic customer service and there gonna warranty them. I was panicking cuz Im not having a shop install them and I thought they were gonna bring that up. I should have my new set in about two weeks. Another hold up on my install ?


----------



## MAIDEN69

You should have swapped woofers to at least determine if it as the speaker or the amp channel, bad signal cable, whatever. Not always as easy as a blown driver. I know I would want to be 100% before sending something back. Would sure suck to get the new set, install them, then find out you are still having a problem with the same channel.


----------



## Wooptido

Congrats Big T... and Mrs Big T!!


----------



## Big T

Thanks


----------



## Big T

subwoofery said:


> Your whole system has PPI equipment? Just wondering
> 
> 
> 
> Kelvin



Yes execpt the HU


----------



## subwoofery

Big T said:


> Yes execpt the HU


Sweet  

:thumbsup: 

Kelvin


----------



## Lunchbox89

MAIDEN69 said:


> You should have swapped woofers to at least determine if it as the speaker or the amp channel, bad signal cable, whatever. Not always as easy as a blown driver. I know I would want to be 100% before sending something back. Would sure suck to get the new set, install them, then find out you are still having a problem with the same channel.


I'm sorry. I misunderstood your question earlier. I did swap the woofer. On top of that I tried it on my d7104 amp as well.


----------



## Lunchbox89

This might be a stupid question. But do you guys think it would be a much better setup if I ran the mid and tweet off 2ch with the provided crossover and then ran the woofers on there own channels?


----------



## Big T

Biggest benefit would being able to time them differently


----------



## balane

Lunchbox89 said:


> This might be a stupid question. But do you guys think it would be a much better setup if I ran the mid and tweet off 2ch with the provided crossover and then ran the woofers on there own channels?


When I was using this kit I did exactly as you stated. I tried it both ways in fact. I definitely preferred using the active crossover setup between the midbass and midrange even though the speakers were receiving twice the powers when going 100% passive.


----------



## DonH

Lunchbox89 said:


> Wtf!!!!!! I got my set in today. And I was testing them with my installer before we threw them in and the midwoofer was either blown or blew. It started carackleing after about 5-7 min of play time they started off great then slowly started crackling. We were testing on my pgti21000.4. Wtf!!!! I'm so pissed. They never got anything over 150rms. hopefully sonic will warranty them. Any input on what might have happened?


Coming from working in the manuf. side of the industry background, It does not surprise me. only a certain amount of drivers are tested upon receiving. If all pass then they all ship out. will one driver be screwed up?most likely out of the order quantity received on the supply side (ppi). If these are made in China, it would not surprise me. 

-Don


----------



## [email protected]

First off they are made in China by the best factory in China for high end speakers. Having one driver blown sucks, Sonic will cover it. If they don't I will. The mid by itself is only good for 50-80 watts rms depending on the amp and of course input signal. If you are using the supplied crossover then you are fine with 150 watts.


----------



## Ultimateherts

[email protected] said:


> First off they are made in China by the best factory in China for high end speakers. Having one driver blown sucks, Sonic will cover it. If they don't I will. The mid by itself is only good for 50-80 watts rms depending on the amp and of course input signal. If you are using the supplied crossover then you are fine with 150 watts.


Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today...


----------



## Lunchbox89

[email protected] said:


> First off they are made in China by the best factory in China for high end speakers. Having one driver blown sucks, Sonic will cover it. If they don't I will. The mid by itself is only good for 50-80 watts rms depending on the amp and of course input signal. If you are using the supplied crossover then you are fine with 150 watts.


Thanks Ryan. Sonic is covering it. They are great speakers for sure. I was about to ask what the power handling capabilities where for each driver. By here going to be ran off a pg ti21000.4 being tuned off of an audio control dq61.


----------



## LeVeL

I was wondering if I should buy a second amp to run my Precision Power 3ways active since I already own a Infiniti Kappa 125 watts X 4 for the rear CDT 6X9s mid bass and the the front 6.5s and a second amp like a 75 watts X 4 for the 75 watt 3" midds and 25 watts for the .75s ribbon tweets. And do I use the crossover on the amps or my Kenwood DNX 891? Also am I right to assume that just because the tweeters are rated for glass breaking 45,000 hz that the amp has to be able to produce at least the same or more Hz or I will not get the full potential from the ribbon tweets? And one more ? Should I purchase a separate DSP since my head unit is capable of time alignment and a ton of other things a DSP does?


----------



## Big T

First off they are not ribbons.they are AMTs Lol ...The resonances above 20hz will be there if you have a good head and amp, also them being able to play to 40k means they are still very efficient at 20k where most tweeters are rolling off. 

I like active because you can time each driver seperately. 

I like using an out board DSP with computer control because it is a lot easier to control
most of the time. You can save your settings to a file on your computer so if you mess something you can just reload it l. You can also have different files (setting) saved.

Right now I can get you a killer deal on the DEQ8


----------



## [email protected]

Lunchbox89 said:


> Thanks Ryan. Sonic is covering it. They are great speakers for sure. I was about to ask what the power handling capabilities where for each driver. By here going to be ran off a pg ti21000.4 being tuned off of an audio control dq61.


Tweet 20-50 watts
Mid 50-80 watts
Woofer 120-200 watts

Make sure the mid can breathe.


----------



## Big T

Yes. The mids have to have enough air around it so it doesn't over heat. We had foam all around mine and they would over heat. Removed some of the foam so they had a little air to dissipate the heat and no more issues. Lol

I am running way to much power to them also tho


----------



## geemac

Big T, I'm interested in getting a DEQ8 from you. I will PM you with questions.


----------



## PPI_GUY

How would these compare with the older PPI (a/d/s) 356cs 2-way components?


----------



## MAIDEN69

Hey Big T, how were you able to tell the 3" midranges were overheating? I'm sure you saw the pods I built. Having them enclosed, you think I will have issues? I know Ryan said they were designed/tested using small cube enclosures.


----------



## Big T

Thet started to sound like the tensel leads were broken or voice coil was damaged. But mine had foam wrapped around it pretty much so the heat couldn't escape the motor. Lol. Your fine with yours.


----------



## balljoint

Whats the final impedance per side with all speakers wired through the crossover?


----------



## Big T

balljoint said:


> Whats the final impedance per side with all speakers wired through the crossover?



4 ohm


----------



## jokerje

I believe this thread was started by Big T. I am new to the forum but i just ordered a set of these speakers. I have a lot of reading to go through here. I wondered what everyone thought of them now.


----------



## omega48er

I'm wondering the same thing. I have a Jeep Commander and im considering a 3 way in the front given that i have a 3" speaker in the dash that makes my ears hurt.

im looking at 2 sets, the PPI p65c3 or the Focal 153 A3. I own a set of Kicker QS65.2 and im not sure what kind of upgrade the 3 way would be from them.

will be powering my front stage with:
Sony xav-701hd and either my JL hd600.4 or jl xd/600/6 and a rear fill for passengers.


----------



## Big T

I won Triple crown at IASCA finals this year with them.


----------



## jokerje

Good...mine came today...have to pick up form my mom's house tomorrow. Hoping to get them installed soon. Going to put the mids in the dash...mid bass inthe door and the tweeter I plan on putting in a pod. What amp are you using for them?


----------



## Big T

In the truck I have 2 PPI Phantom P900.4s
In the car we have 2 Power Class 5chanels


----------



## jokerje

What gauge wire did you run for the speakers themself? Looks like the tweeters are 16??? I cannot wait to wire these up. Hey do you use facebook? I am on tehre with pictures of my install...a work in progress. Justin Ryan Emery


----------



## [email protected]

TWEETERS are 16g and then I would run 14g to the rest. Thats what I use in our sound room.


----------



## Big T

I run 16 to everything execpt the subs


----------



## sirbOOm

You are perfectly fine with 16 gauge all around. 

I use 14 AWG. I couldn't route 12 AWG if I had a bottle of Astroglide and a winning lottery ticket.


----------



## ImK'ed

these speakers have caught my attention ive been looking at focals 165f3 but these would save some coins


----------



## Big T

ImK'ed said:


> these speakers have caught my attention ive been looking at focals 165f3 but these would save some coins



You won't be sorry


----------



## ImK'ed

I dont know what amtssound like, I mean from this set would you expect a lively sound or warm?


----------



## ImK'ed

Big T said:


> It's been done. My truck went from not placing at SBN and finals to triple crown. All the judges stated how the couldn't believe much better it sounded.


Decision made Thanks

how do you have them mounted? On axis off axis etc and your running 3way active right?


----------



## Jepalan

Sorry if this has been covered. 

Can the huge plastic bezel ring (the one the grille snaps into) on the 2" mid & 6.5" mid-bass be removed from the new P65c3's for a stealth install? 

Any pics with the rings removed?

Thanks.


----------



## Jepalan

Jepalan said:


> Sorry if this has been covered.
> 
> Can the huge plastic bezel ring (the one the grille snaps into) on the 2" mid & 6.5" mid-bass be removed from the new P65c3's for a stealth install?
> 
> Any pics with the rings removed?
> 
> Thanks.


DOH! - Nevermind. I just found these picks on the PPI site:


----------



## pjf1fan

I have the new set but it isn't installed yet. Looking at the materials, I'm impressed and I am looking forward to installing these speakers in the front factory three-way locations on my 2006 VW Jetta. I have hopes they will sound very clean and will compliment my Hertz HX 300 subwoofers (of which I have two brand new pairs, one pair for sale).


----------



## omega48er

Hay guys, so I'm looking at this speaker set. How much power are you guys feed it?


----------



## coldsoda

omega48er said:


> Hay guys, so I'm looking at this speaker set. How much power are you guys feed it?


its been covered in this thread a few times, but to recap:



[email protected] said:


> You can give them a true 250watts RMS "IF" you use the supplied crossover. If not I will give you per speaker RMS ratings.
> 
> As far as tweeter location they have an amazing off axis response so my advise would put them where you are at least 90* on axis and you can adjust them from there by turning them (ei; changing the orientation of the pleats.)
> 
> You may need to turn on the midrange contour as well.





[email protected] said:


> First off they are made in China by the best factory in China for high end speakers. Having one driver blown sucks, Sonic will cover it. If they don't I will. The mid by itself is only good for 50-80 watts rms depending on the amp and of course input signal. If you are using the supplied crossover then you are fine with 150 watts.


tl;dr:
RMS PASSIVE:
250 watts which = 125 watts x 2

RMS ACTIVE:
25watts to the tweeters, 50watts to the mids, and 100-150rms to the woofer


----------



## omega48er

coldsoda said:


> its been covered in this thread a few times, but to recap:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr:
> RMS PASSIVE:
> 250 watts which = 125 watts x 2
> 
> RMS ACTIVE:
> 25watts to the tweeters, 50watts to the mids, and 100-150rms to the woofer


Thanks, i have been following the thread but might have missed it (a few times). the 250 rms had me fooled as i wss thibjibg it was 250 rms per side not combined.
I was thinking about bridging my hd600/4 for it but it will be too much for the set. 

Will i have problems if i give them 200w a side? im thinking to go with my xd600/6 bridging ch1-4 for the front (which is 200w ) and running my rears of the last 2 ch for the back passenger. 3 row jeep commander.


----------



## pjf1fan

Asking about how much power a speaker will take means nothing. Put too little and you send clipped signals when you overextend the amp. That's a sure way to kill the speakers by the way. On the other hand you can drive them with hundreds of watts but you'll never drive the amp hard. The signal remains clean and you'll hear when the speakers are protesting. Heat compression and bottoming out will be clear to you. If you can't hear that then you have too much subwoofer bass or you just don't have the discerning ears for such a high end speaker set as these.


----------



## coldsoda

omega48er said:


> Thanks, i have been following the thread but might have missed it (a few times). the 250 rms had me fooled as i wss thibjibg it was 250 rms per side not combined.
> I was thinking about bridging my hd600/4 for it but it will be too much for the set.
> 
> Will i have problems if i give them 200w a side? im thinking to go with my xd600/6 bridging ch1-4 for the front (which is 200w ) and running my rears of the last 2 ch for the back passenger. 3 row jeep commander.


Those numbers I gave above are just the basic guidelines I gathered researching the speakers before I picked up the set. I would see those RMS numbers as a good place to aim, but not mandatory. Some reported running less wattage than that, but also read what pjf1fan posted:



pjf1fan said:


> Asking about how much power a speaker will take means nothing. Put too little and you send clipped signals when you overextend the amp. That's a sure way to kill the speakers by the way. On the other hand you can drive them with hundreds of watts but you'll never drive the amp hard. The signal remains clean and you'll hear when the speakers are protesting. Heat compression and bottoming out will be clear to you. If you can't hear that then you have too much subwoofer bass or you just don't have the discerning ears for such a high end speaker set as these.


^ Good info here. Its always good to be on the side with too much power, as long as you know that and keep things in check. It is not a good idea to recommend a high power amp and low RMS speakers to someone new in car audio that might not know better and give too much power to the speakers... With smart gain setup you'll be OK with the extra headroom.


----------



## Rogue740

Forgive me if the answer has been posted already. How small is the mounting flange of the midrange? I want to install this set in my E53 X5 stock locations. The dash mid location is 3.1" at it's smallest point.


----------



## Jepalan

Rogue740 said:


> Forgive me if the answer has been posted already. How small is the mounting flange of the midrange? I want to install this set in my E53 X5 stock locations. The dash mid location is 3.1" at it's smallest point.


Does this help? 










Looks like 65mm mounting hole and 95mm outside diameter of the plastic bezel ring


----------



## Rogue740

Jepalan said:


> Does this help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like 65mm mounting hole and 95mm outside diameter of the plastic bezel ring


Beautiful! Just what I was looking for.

I think that might work with some trimming.


----------



## Big T

On the 2nd page I have some very close measurments


----------



## omega48er

Hay guys, sorry to be a broken record, but i only want to do this once.

How do these speakers stand against something against other passive 3 ways.. sometimes like the hertz or focal 165 a3 or as3? 
Im going to order speakers tomorrow and do my build this weekend. 

Thanks again


----------



## Big T

I like them better than the Focals I had before my last gem PPIs. They were the K2s


----------



## omega48er

Sweet, one last question. My jeep commander has 6x9 in the doors and 3.5 in the dash.

I wss planning mount the tweeter in the A- pillar and the mids in the stock dash locations, how would it sound.

Will be powering them off my hd600 / 4 bridged.


----------



## Big T

Is the stock dash location in the top of the dash?? If so. That's how we have them in my wife's car and it sounds great


----------



## omega48er

Yeppz. Top of dash , thanks I'm ordering them now from sonic


----------



## omega48er

ORDERED!!! Woohoo been 2.5 years since my last build, cant wait!!!!


----------



## omega48er

Look what just came in.


----------



## Big T

Hey. Their upside down


----------



## MAIDEN69

BTW, found these today.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/tianle-amt40-4-3/4-amt-car-tweeter-pair/


----------



## Big T

So my wife. Surina is at the gas station filling up when A guy pulls up at the pump next to her in another Sentra like hers. When he got out of his car he told her that he liked hers with the wheels and the tint. He noticed a PPI decal and ask her she had a stereo in it she said yes. He said he had one too and wanted her to see it. He opened his trunk and had just a simple box with 12 and 1 amp screwed to it . It wasn't fastened down and he was all bragging about it. She said that's nice, here I'll show you mine. Keep in mind she is 3 time IASCA INAC champion in IQC.She open the trunk and turned on the LEDs. She said he couldn't say anything. Just ahh umm ahh. He went back to his car and looked kinda but hurt. LMAO..


----------



## Big T




----------



## bkjay

I bet he was like WTF!:laugh:


----------



## RandomBeat

Big T said:


>




thats absolutely gorgeous, and something to strive for!!!


----------



## roxj01

So where's the build log ?


----------



## Darth SQ

Big T said:


>


Gorgeous work! 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Gabe63

Hi, first post. I have been into car stereo's since the late 80's... I am strongly considering these speakers. My only hesitation is the awful (IMHO) looking speaker grills. These would be going into a 1962 VW Bus. I cannot hide the grills and have to blend them in.

Does anyone know if I can install normal looking grills without the large black, rubber looking surrounds? If so any idea what grills would work? 

What I consider normal looking would be Focal or old German MB Quart grills. That type of minimalist grill. 

Thanks.


----------



## Big T

You could stretch grill cloth across the metal grill and make them look smooth.


----------



## Storm_Rider

sorry if it's a silly question, very so new to this, can i just not use the grilles and mount them behind factory locations?


----------



## Big T

Yes. That's how mine are pretty much


----------



## atownmack

It seems like everyone likes them. I get the sense that the midrange is good and the tweeters are airy. But how is the midbass? Is the midbass present and tight? I'm sure it's been addressed, but this tread is DEEP! Anyone have any info on what they can be crossed at safely? Would you say this a good sq set?

Debating between going with this set, hertz esk 3 way, or the diy route with sb acoustics mids paired with seas prestige tweeters.


----------



## [email protected]

To address the mid-bass question is yes they are very tight, and accurate. Because of the material used in both the mid-range and mid-bass speaker the entire set has a very open and airy sound to it, and as most have said takes some getting used to. They are very un-colored. If there was a mistake in the recording you will here it....You can tell what and where the music was recorded.


----------



## spaceace60

I would really like to hear the results regarding the Sq of this PPi setup(as I have a set on their way here(any day now!) but won't be able to install them in my car till spring!! I got rid of a pr of Polk Sr6500's($800 a set)as I got a brand new set of these PPi's($249) and a set of Pioneer stage4 5-1/4's components on sale for $249(was $799 a set) for what I sold the Polks for!!(hope I made right choice?)as the Polks have nothing but 5star reviews by the tons(infact their bringing way more than retail now!) I mostly wanna know how the PPi 3" mid stands up to the Pioneer stage4 Ts-062Prs(2-5/8") and how the 6-1/2 PPi woofer compares to the Polks 6.75"woofer?? the PPi's do claim to handle a lot more in rms and have a 94db sens(which is incredible!) I've already been told the PPi Amt tweet is as good if not better than what came with my Polks??,but i'm dying for the real world results from others since I can't hook them up for a cpl months!! the suspense will kill me so the more I hear from you guys on these the better! thanks Jim


----------



## spaceace60

[email protected] said:


> For those of you who have heard them you understand the work that went into these....this wasn't a buy it off the shelf at some Chinese factory, they were engineered from the ground up. We spent a lot of time and a lot of money making sure they were right. So far it has paid off. Just like the review says, they are not for everyone. I will admit it took us a while to get used to the sound, its not like anything you have ever heard before....it takes time. But once you get used to them you really appreciate them. And again they have the sound of a $1-2k speaker set but for a fraction of the cost. This might actually work for us or it might not, maybe some will think if they are that cheap they cant be good. And again I challenge that consumer and I know we will change their mind after listening. Don't be biased based off something that once was good/great, challenge yourself to appreciate new technology and what it can do for this industry. The industry doesn't move forward by doing the same thing year after year. It moves forward by embracing newer more efficient technology. A wise man once told me that industry moves forward buy building it better,faster and smarter. Thats what we all strive to do....and if we can save you some money then we all win in my book.


To be honest Ryan I have a ton of $$ in my system and I ALMOST didn't give these a chance due to the low cost lol!(WOW how brainwashed am I??) and I am a serious bargain hunter(for real!!)infact 80% of my 10grand system was bought used! thanks to this post I may hold on to this PPi set!!(as I got these new on a partial trade from an outta state friend/audio dealer!!)price was the ONLY thing that gave me any doubt even after Garry S. review!! I just thought impossible to be great at that price??(as PPi surely wouldn't price these so low if this was all new from ground up and so good?? yet cheaper than previous PPi sets!!,but if these turn out to be all that everyone says and word gets out you won't keep them in stock!! I haven't been able to hook mine up yet(well their due here thurs!)Hey on the other extreme Pioneer stage4 stuff dropped 75% in price this month as obviously nobody was putting out that kinda cheese for it!!(well I did on their little mids damn it lol!) so I guess I lost some future resale with Pioneer?? im pretty excited to see how the PPi 3" compares to Pioneers Stage4 2-5/8"mid(Ts-062Prs)as I just love them!!(they just dropped from $499 down to $199) and how the woofer compares to my PolkSr6500's I just traded to get this set?? thanks for the info! long story short if the price scared me I KNOW it did others!!


----------



## reclermo

I just received my set in yesterday from a buy in the classifieds section. After inspecting them, I was floored with the quality of the entire set, all I have to say is that they look a lot better in person than they do in images. Will be looking forward to reporting back after I finish with the install in a few weeks time.


----------



## Mobile Audio

Observations that I thought would be helpful info for those who need to know: 

1) The product comes with a cutout sheet to assist with speaker cutouts. 

2) Rough measurement of the Crossover for mount and location planning. (it's larger than i expected - photos attached)

3) Seems like the mounting screws on the xover's protective cover could have use lock washers or some type of rubber ring to stop them from shaking loose and rattling. 

4) The cutout diam and holes for mounting are close -- VERY close, which leaves little room for error if you want a sealed enclosure.

5) the mounting ring on the mid is rather thin (seems like it will bend if you torque it too much)

STILL UNKNOWN: 

6) xover specifications -- PPI is pretty closed lip about specifications on this product (xover points, and slopes...) I see others who have done active xovers and what they have for their applications, but no information about the xover that comes with the product.

7) Recommended air space for each speaker Sealed and ported seems to be a missing link. I see vague measurements from our forum PPI rep on this thread but nothing that gives us much to go on (was the 1ft^3 for the woofer external or internal, what was the wood thickness, did that include poly if so how much....) what do the mids need with regards to air space?

8) Speaker specs for each speaker.


Rather shocked that a product that is getting so much attention on this forum, and (i presume is) PPI's big deal, is so limited on actual specifications on the manufacture's website. 


Next step -- Install them and be amazed not by the lack of information on PPI's website, but by the sound these things will produce!


----------



## bigdawg86

Hey guys first time post here! So I recently installed these components into my Subaru BRZ. I ran new wire to everything and am feeding signal with a Pioneer 4100NEX. My amplifier is a Rockford Fosgate P400X4 which is pushing my components as well as my rear speakers (JBL GTO429). I also have a Kicker CVX104 in the trunk being pushed by a Rockford Fosgate 600.1 amplifier. 

I noticed that you guys are talking about pushing nearly 200 watts RMS into these things and "sounding clean, awesome, etc", yet with my current setup I don't feel like my sound is maintaining the "crisp" factor once I get to a certain volume. I also feel like its lacking in the midrange. I listen to every genre of music and some may sound good, but then I had my music on shuffle and a hip hop song sounded like I was about to destroy my door woofers (crossover tried settings at 63-80). 

So for my question... would you recommend for "best sound" (not necessarily the loudest), keeping my 4 channel setup 50RMS per channel @ 4 ohms, or bridging the components and running the rears off the headunit? I am not an audio guru, but I do appreciate maximizing my stuff for the best sound. I also have my crossovers set to midrange contour on (although I dont know exactly what it does) and tweeter to -3db.


----------



## bigdawg86

OK so I'm officially worried... In regards to my door speakers sounding like the are going to explode... Today on my drive home I turned off my subwoofer and was testing hip hop songs at various volumes. Keep in mind I am only pushing 50RMS in pass through on my amp... I had the head unit crossover set to 80hz - 18db and once I got to a volume that wasn't very loud, I got a very loud pop from what sounded like possibly from both speakers... Even worse when I set the crossover to 63hz... At lower volumes I love these speakers but I cannot for the life of me figure it out. The bass / kick drum on hip hop "pop" is very loud and scared me to be honest. The only way to get a good volume without that pop or distortion I have to all but eliminate bass / midbass. I'm super bummed. 
Are the speakers being over driven? Is the amp clipping? Help!


----------



## Lunchbox89

bigdawg86 said:


> OK so I'm officially worried... In regards to my door speakers sounding like the are going to explode... Today on my drive home I turned off my subwoofer and was testing hip hop songs at various volumes. Keep in mind I am only pushing 50RMS in pass through on my amp... I had the head unit crossover set to 80hz - 18db and once I got to a volume that wasn't very loud, I got a very loud pop from what sounded like possibly from both speakers... Even worse when I set the crossover to 63hz... At lower volumes I love these speakers but I cannot for the life of me figure it out. The bass / kick drum on hip hop "pop" is very loud and scared me to be honest. The only way to get a good volume without that pop or distortion I have to all but eliminate bass / midbass. I'm super bummed.
> Are the speakers being over driven? Is the amp clipping? Help!


I had the same issue with mine when installed. I crossed them at 125hz with 160-170 rms and it took care of it. These are awesome speakers, but they do require a bit of tuning to "sound right".


----------



## bigdawg86

Lunchbox89 said:


> I had the same issue with mine when installed. I crossed them at 125hz with 160-170 rms and it took care of it. These are awesome speakers, but they do require a bit of tuning to "sound right".


I'll bridge them and see if that helps... So if you cross your components thay high do you match your subwoofer low pass to 125hz?


----------



## bigdawg86

So I bridged them so the amp was not the issue... So I set the output clip signal to the sine wave instead of the fixed tone... I also had the popping in bridged or regular... So amp clipping was not the problem. I just set my crossover to 125hz and messed with my EQ and am now able to get to full volume without the noise. I had hoped I wouldn't need the crossover that high, but it's better than blown speakers. I set my sub to match at 125hz.


----------



## Big T

Cross them at 85 or so. That's where mine are. You keep your subs where they were. You always gap crossover points or the overlaps from the slope will cause a spike. I cross my subs between 50 and 60.

Bridging the amp would make it worse. 125 on your subs is way to high


----------



## bigdawg86

Big T said:


> Cross them at 85 or so. That's where mine are. You keep your subs where they were. You always gap crossover points or the overlaps from the slope will cause a spike. I cross my subs between 50 and 60.
> 
> Bridging the amp would make it worse. 125 on your subs is way to high


Well at 80 or lower I get the speaker pop / distortion at high volume. Hence the higher crossover. I will lower my sub though and try that to avoid bass spikes


----------



## Lunchbox89

Big T said:


> Cross them at 85 or so. That's where mine are. You keep your subs where they were. You always gap crossover points or the overlaps from the slope will cause a spike. I cross my subs between 50 and 60.
> 
> Bridging the amp would make it worse. 125 on your subs is way to high


125 is high but that's when I got the popping to stop completely. It could be my eqing too.


----------



## Big T

Keep in mind these are SQ speakers. They aren't going to handle overly unnatural bass settings


----------



## rton20s

Tuning could definitely be an issue, in particular if you have some bumps in your midbass EQ. To hear from multiple sources that these might not be able to be crossed cleanly below 125 Hz without issue is a bit unnerving. Especially considering this is a 3-way component set and the 6.5" is a dedicated mid-bass.


----------



## Big T

85 is no issue unless your hammering the midbass


----------



## [email protected]

Yeah something seems off....BigT's are crossed over low and sound great at high volume. We play ours in the studio at 65-80 and have zero issues.


----------



## bigdawg86

[email protected] said:


> Yeah something seems off....BigT's are crossed over low and sound great at high volume. We play ours in the studio at 65-80 and have zero issues.


The more I play with the system the more I think I am the problem... I think my midbass was being doubled up in terms of processing... My amp is in all pass, but it has the "punch EQ" adjustment which seems to probably boost my midbass EQ whether I like it or not... I also went to flat EQ in my head unit for 50-80hz which also helped. So far listening to EDM /techno I can max the volume with 100hz - 12db crossover settings without the speaker popping. This is not my first install, but this is my first with a SQ components so I am seeing there is a huge learning curve.


----------



## Big T

Also check if you have one wired backwards by accident. If one is out of phase, that may be causing you to try to compensate for the loss of midbass caused by the phase issue and overdrive them


----------



## bigdawg86

Big T said:


> Also check if you have one wired backwards by accident. If one is out of phase, that may be causing you to try to compensate for the loss of midbass caused by the phase issue and overdrive them


So even though I can swear I triple checked my polarity and it is correct , I switched around one of the door woofers while listening to music repeatedly and did notice a subtle increase I'm bass response with it switched. Weird.


----------



## Gabe63

bigdawg86 said:


> The more I play with the system the more I think I am the problem... I think my midbass was being doubled up in terms of processing... My amp is in all pass, but it has the "punch EQ" adjustment which seems to probably boost my midbass EQ whether I like it or not... I also went to flat EQ in my head unit for 50-80hz which also helped. So far listening to EDM /techno I can max the volume with 100hz - 12db crossover settings without the speaker popping. This is not my first install, but this is my first with a SQ components so I am seeing there is a huge learning curve.


What are your takes on the set from a sound quality perspective?


----------



## bigdawg86

Gabe63 said:


> What are your takes on the set from a sound quality perspective?


Sound quality is quite good... Very "alive" sound. Crystal clear. The tweeter can be harsh, but obviously that can be toned down if needed. As per my previous posts was possibly expecting more than reality was going to give me in terms of sound in the 63-125hz range... But I forget to realize that stock car radios are full range yet severely lack in clarity and volume. This gives both with some sacrifice at the lower spectrum of sound. They do compliment a subwoofer nicely.


----------



## LeVeL

Is it OK to mount the 3" midrange in .016cu. Sealed pod with out over heating I know .015cu was used in the studio . Also did I read in previous post that 6.5 midbass required a 1 cubic foot sealed pod and should i use poly fill inside. How high and what angle should the 3" mids be mounted on the A pillars and same for the tweeters.


----------



## brewermoe

[email protected] said:


> Tweet 20-50 watts
> Mid 50-80 watts
> Woofer 120-200 watts
> 
> Make sure the mid can breathe.


My apologies if I missed it, but what's the power rating to the crossover using only the mids and tweeters? (the woofer being on another channel) Is measuring the resistance at the crossover accurate? I'm guessing 2-3ohm's, and the woofer 4ohm?


----------



## MoparMike

Well, after reading about these for a while I picked up a set only to turn around and trade in my Ram pickup that they were bought for. The new vehicle is a Durango and it has a center channel so I've got a new question. If I want to upgrade the center channel speaker as well, what are my options for finding a good match with these? Is the mid available ala carte? Stock center channel is a 3.5".


----------



## rton20s

I don't believe you can buy the mid independently, but it might be worth contacting Epsilon directly to see if they could work something out for you.


----------



## Big T

Try calling And asking for Ryan Klien. If he can he will help


----------



## MoparMike

Thanks for the info


----------



## cajunner

if these are Alpine 3.5" center channel stockers, maybe it's good enough as a center channel?

then again, there's a bunch of raw drivers that can serve center channel duty if you go that route.

maybe you can fit a small-framed 4" with a little plastic cutting, that would get you into some higher output drivers.

maybe you are limited on depth, but the Scan 12MU seems like a nice speaker, all in all...


----------



## MoparMike

cajunner said:


> if these are Alpine 3.5" center channel stockers, maybe it's good enough as a center channel?
> 
> then again, there's a bunch of raw drivers that can serve center channel duty if you go that route.
> 
> maybe you can fit a small-framed 4" with a little plastic cutting, that would get you into some higher output drivers.
> 
> maybe you are limited on depth, but the Scan 12MU seems like a nice speaker, all in all...


They are Alpine and for a stock system it sounds very good so at this point its not a necessity that the center be replaced. Just wanted to see what my options are as I am in still in the planning stage. I have a set of Hybrid L3v1's left over from my last truck and was pleased with those so that is another option.


----------



## brewermoe

Does anyone know if this tweeter comes apart? It would fit nicer in the factory pillar mount if I could get the threaded housing off.


----------



## spaceace60

*PPi Pc3.65C VS new PPi P65c3*

PPi Pc3.65C(black/copper color) VS new PPi P65c3(yellow Kevlar) has anyone compared these two sets?? I have the new set of P65C3(not installed yet) but a cpl years ago member rexroadj was ranting on the Sq of the older copper colored set! also ive heard a few ppl mention the 6-1/2" of the both sets start to pop when x-overed under 120hz or so? basically they won't take much low end?? was wondering if they got any better after break in??


----------



## bigdawg86

It seems for me it got better after breaking them in... I currently have mine crossed down to 80hz without a problem anymore. Again I do have to stick with my comments about if you do these without a sub you will be gravely disappointed lol...


----------



## Big T

Brewermoe. No the tweeters will not come apart.

I have found crossing the 6.5 at 80 works best which is common for a 6.5. They are mid bass. Not subs. Lol. The night are smoother than the old set and mid range is much better.


----------



## brewermoe

Big T said:


> Brewermoe. No the tweeters will not come apart.


I was hoping not to cut my pillar, it is a little larger than the hole for the factory tweeter. Turns out that I am going to have to cut into it anyway in order to fit the mid up there beside it. I can't build a pod that fits behind the dash. (Civic)


----------



## spaceace60

So far I think most listeners have agreed that this new PPi set sounds pretty damn good! (I also wonder psychologically if these woulda been $700 a set would they have gotten a better review??)Believe it or not the cheap price almost kept me from giving these the time of day,as stupid as that sounds??(But for real I almost passed them up over price!!)but I think its misleading for PPi to plaster 400watts all over the box(that's a Dual,Jensen,Kraco type advertising stunt to target sales to kids!) Hell actually their really only 125watts rms ,ok 250watts rms per set and 400watts a set peak!(that's the kinda bogus dumb **** that could keep audiophiles from taking this set serious!!) Anywho i'm thinking my Polk Sr6500's or Stage4's will take a bit more input power before breaking up on bottom end??(again hoping these get better after break in??)Maybe im being a bit too critical on them prematurely? Hey what about the 94db/1w sensitivity these puppies claim to have?? shouldn't these be way louder than my Polks or Stage 4's that have around 85-86db/1w??? hell you would think an 8 or 9db increase should be atleast an ez 50% louder played at all the same settings that my other speakers were playing at?? or am I off on my logic for this scenario?? as they weren't really any louder on test bench than anything else was??!!! looking forward to as much info on these as possible!! should they stay or should they go lol!!! thanks Jim


----------



## HiloDB1

I looked/searched in this thread but didnt really see an answer for what the passive crossover points are. Is it 400/4k?


----------



## Big T

Ryan Kline


----------



## omega48er

So after long LONG delay I am finally installing my equipment. this weekend. the hardest part was to determine what amps i was going to be using and i did not feel like running my 0 gauge... BLAH BLAH long story short, here is my list:
1) PC 65C3
2) Boston rear fill
3) PPI P900.5- bridging 1-4 for the front stage
4) Boston G5 in factory sealed box with the Radial. hope the p.900.5 is enough 
5) HU is a sony XAV-712HD. considering replacing it with a Pioneer 4100NEX.


----------



## 1Sik1500

Nice. I just ordered a set of these today and a PPI 900.4 for my 2015 Nissan Frontier. Cant wait to get them installed.


----------



## bigdawg86

How good is the factory support on these things? I'm started noticing a subtle white noise coming from one of the tweeters with certain music. I thought I kinda noticed it right off the bat, but wasn't sure. It is most noticeable when playing single instruments (piano it's really noticeable). I know I can't possibly over power these with my current setup (50WRms) using the supplied crossover . Is there any way to tell if a tweeter is having problems other than "I think I hear something"?

Is playing a lossless codec or a CD more helpful in tracking down the noise since good speakers will reproduce sounds we may not be accustomed to hearing on lesser systems? 

Other than that I sorted out my kinks and love the speakers


----------



## Big T

If it is only coming out of one tweeter the swap tweeters. If the noise stays on the same side it's not the tweeter. If it goes to the other side then the tweeter is the issue. You will hear things in the recording with this set you don't hear with others. 
The support is great. Ryan will take care of you


----------



## rehab86

Just read all 23 pages. Sold!


----------



## 1Sik1500

Got mine in this week. Should get them installed this weeked. Im still curious about running the tweeters off axis. Something like Big T, In each sail panel flush mounted. Im not running a DSP, Just a factory headunit and PPI 900.4


----------



## JJIsEdge

Hey guys, quick question. I've lurked on this forum a lot, but never posted. This thread gave me the final push to buy these speakers. When I first installed them, I got a little nervous because even crossed at 150, the midbass would pop on bass heavy tracks, but after 2 weeks, I'm down at 100 and they sound great. I think they just needed to break in.

Before I ask my question, I'll just get all this out of the way:

I used 12gauge speaker wire, straight to the spring terminals on the midbass, used female connectors on the 3" mid, and butt connectors to go to the 16gauge wire on the tweeters. I'm powering them using a Kenwood KAC-8401. I have my rear speakers and these speakers wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load and the amp is bridged to 250watts x 2 @ 2ohms. The amp is high passed at 100. I'm using the passive crossovers. My headunit is a pretty cheap Pioneer (upgrading this next) and is totally flat on the EQ except for loudness on high (these are in a convertible, it just helps with the sound with the top down) but the problem happens with it off as well. I've also tried playing with both settings on the crossover to no avail. 

Okay, so the only problem I'm having is that I listen to an incredibly wide variety of music. Acoustic, Indie, Emo, Piano-pop, most rap, etc sound amazing! But whenever I listen to hardcore or punk bands (no matter if they're poor production quality or major label bands) I get this horrific sound from the tweeters when the guitar plays (it's usually only heard when the guitar rings out.) It will happen at the same parts every song, so I know there is a possibility it might be on the recording, but it just happens on too many songs for that to seem feasible. It happens with both mp3's at 320kbps as well as FLAC files. The weird thing is, I've isolated them as my tweeters because when I disconnect them the noise goes away. However, I just realized, if I take the tweeter and hold it up to my ear, I can't hear the noise, as soon as I move it maybe 6" away, I hear it again. I've tried placing it right near the mid, as well as angled up towards the windshield, towards me, in a door location, no dice. Could this be a phase issue? Is it most likely in the recordings? Are my tweeters blown? So confused, this is my first "complex" install so there is the possibility I did something wrong and don't know it.


----------



## Big T

I told Ryan to log on and chime in. I am thinking maybe something resonating in the car. 

How loud/noticeable is it??
Does it sound like crackeling, hiss, ? Try to describe the noise a little more.

Does it do it on the left and right or just one side?? If just one side.swap tweeters and see if the sound changes sides. 


Try it with the back speakers unhooked from the amp.


----------



## Big T

Ryan seemed to think phase issue


----------



## JJIsEdge

Thanks for the quick response! Originally I just had the front ones hooked up, so that doesn't make a difference.

It is a horrid crackeling noise. It only happens when like there is a build up on the toms on drums, or a distorted guitar rings out a power chord, very specific instances.

Both sides do it equally at the same times. I tried a different amp, so I know it's not the amp. If I actually hold the tweeter and move it, it consistently makes it until it is RIGHT at my ear. Even at low volumes. As soon as it's more than a few inches away from my ear it'll make it again. It's not constant at all in the sense that it is always making it. But it seems like certain frequencies will trigger it. It happens at very similar parts of different songs, and always the same time, only when very distorted guitars are ringing out or like certain drum fills. I've rechecked the wiring at least 10 times, everything is wired correctly but it makes the same crackling noise as if wires were loose and not making great contact. 

I tried lowering the gain to 25% and I set the gains originally with a DMM. The music isn't distorted so I don't think it's clipping. I've done a few installs but nothing like a 3 way. I haven't hooked my subs up yet because I wanted to make sure everything was running smooth on this end. Does it still sound like a phase issue and if so is there any possible way you could point me in the direction of some info on how to fix it?

I really appreciate the response!


----------



## Big T

Are you 100% sure the mids and tweeters arnt swapped. I am not saying they are. Just asking


----------



## Big T

Where r u


----------



## JJIsEdge

The crossovers are mounted on opposite sides of my trunk and I ran the left wires to the left one and the right wires to the right one, so it' impossible they got swapped. I double checked the wire on both tweeters though, I have gold to gold and silver to silver on the tweeter side and gold to positive and silver to negative on all connections of each crossover. Wiring is definitely good. And I'm a little bit north of Boston, MA.


----------



## omega48er

JJIsEdge said:


> The crossovers are mounted on opposite sides of my trunk and I ran the left wires to the left one and the right wires to the right one, so it' impossible they got swapped. I double checked the wire on both tweeters though, I have gold to gold and silver to silver on the tweeter side and gold to positive and silver to negative on all connections of each crossover. Wiring is definitely good. And I'm a little bit north of Boston, MA.


Hay Dude, what i usually do to check my wiring before i power up my amp (since i always mix up my wiring and learned the hard way by destroying my facorite set of components , BA pro60se) I take a cordless drill battery and connect negative speaker wire to the negative on the battery and tap the positive side with the positive wire. never had an issue since.

Best of luck!


----------



## 1Sik1500

omega48er said:


> Hay Dude, what i usually do to check my wiring before i power up my amp (since i always mix up my wiring and learned the hard way by destroying my facorite set of components , BA pro60se) I take a cordless drill battery and connect negative speaker wire to the negative on the battery and tap the positive side with the positive wire. never had an issue since.
> 
> Best of luck!



I wouldnt do that two a tweeter though. lol


----------



## omega48er

1Sik1500 said:


> I wouldnt do that two a tweeter though. lol


Really???! I been doing this for a while and never ran into issues... guess never say never. Any particular reason? Don't want to screw up my stuff. 

Thanks!


----------



## MAIDEN69

I simply verify all my speakers with a warn out 9v battery. Have used smaller 6v camera batteries as well. Sometimes the speakers don't match their markings. So wire it up and test just to have that piece of mind. You never know. Don't think I would try it with a 18V drill battery though. lol


----------



## 1Sik1500

omega48er said:


> Really???! I been doing this for a while and never ran into issues... guess never say never. Any particular reason? Don't want to screw up my stuff.
> 
> Thanks!


Well considering these tweeters are AMT, Im not sure of the negative effects on them.


----------



## Big T

I meant tweeter wired to
Mid and mid to tweeter


----------



## JJIsEdge

BigT -Sorry I misunderstood, but they are not swapped. All the polarities are correct too. It's honestly not the biggest problem, the speakers are absolutely incredible and accurate. 

I'm really more concerned it's hurting the tweeters, but I'm not clipping and everything is hooked up correctly. I'm very pleased with the speakers and the fact that it only happens with songs with incredibly distorted or overdriven guitar makes me think it's more of a speaker too accurately producing the recording - which is quite the opposite of a problem! haha I hear things in songs I've never heard before, and even with the top down everything is incredibly clear and loud at a flat EQ where before I'd have everything boosted to get marginal sound.

If the only problem is sometimes getting a crackling on certain parts of songs for a few seconds, as long as it's not hurting anything, I'm not going to complain.


----------



## MAIDEN69

So what is the deal with the woofers? Keep reading people have popping issues. I've yet to fire my system up. Not even close. Too many other projects and other crap keeping me from the install. But have seen over and over where they have to raise the crossover above 100 to keep them from popping. Are these just not capable midbass drivers? 
I'm running fully active with my system so will have no problems swapping in different drivers if need be. Well, the midbass drivers that is. The tweets will be in spheres and the mids in their own enclosures. But the 6.5" could be swapped for a more capable driver if needed. I'm gonna run two Sundown SD-2 8" subs so they could play to 100hz if needed but would rather have them crossed at 80hz. 
I'm sure I will just cross that road when I get to it as it wouldn't take that much work to swap them if they just can't hang.


----------



## Big T

Mine are crossed at 80 with no issues


----------



## JJIsEdge

They are very stiff, I think they just need time to break in and loosen up. When I first put them in, I had to cross at 150 to avoid popping. After about two weeks though I crossed to 95 and they sound a lot better and don't pop, and I have it loud enough to hear when I'm driving with the top down in my car at highway speeds. I can play any type of music and they don't sound over exerted or stressed.


----------



## MAIDEN69

What kind of power are you feeding them with? My system will consist of a RF 3Sixty.3 to run fully active. AMT tweeters and the midrange drivers will be powered off a Phoenix Gold Titanium 500.4 (75wx4 @ 4ohm)(under-rated?) Midbass drivers will be powered by a RF Punch 800A4. Either by 2 channels of the 4 or in bridged mode. Bridged is rated at 400 x 2 @ 4ohm. Obviously I would have the gains damn near all the way down but have tons of clean headroom. Or just use 2 of the channels which are rated @ 100w in 4ohm.
Plan to dial the system in with REW once I get the hang of it. Not sure if running in bridged mode is asking for problems. Too much power for those speakers, amp running hotter... If I just use two channels, it opens up the other 2 to run my rear speakers (Kicker RS6's) Problem with those is I cant run them through the DSP, not enough channels being I'm running the 3-ways up front. Maybe there is a 2 channel dsp I could use to run the rears through to deal with time alignment and crossover.
Thoughts? 
For reference, this is in a C5 Corvette so it is a small 2 seater with hatch area behind you. Will have two Sundown SD-2 8" subs in the back corners. 
Tweeters will be located on the A pillars just above dash height in spheres. Mids and midbass in the doors. I've always liked rear speakers. More so to just lift the soundstage of the front by slowly fading until you just can't hear the rears. So all sound seams to come from the front but the rears are still playing. 
I've planned to get the PPI's and subs dialed in and then maybe start playing with the rears to see if I like them in there. If not, just cut em off.


----------



## Big T

I have mine on 2 PPI Phantom P900.4s. I use 2 ch of one amp to run my 8"subs under the front seats


----------



## bigdawg86

I am running a Rockford Fosgate P400X4 which is only 50W RMS per channel. It's plenty loud, but the only place I wish I had more headroom was listening to Sirius radio. The signal input voltage is lesser than the other sources so volume 30 on USB, radio, and CD it to 40 on Sirius. I am running a separate Rockford Fosgate 600.1db for my 10" Kicker. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Photo_steve

Im so glad I went with this set. I knew I wanted to run a 3 way in my fusion that way I could build pods in the stock tweeter location.. I do wish they had some specs on the crossover as I am running passive for now. (I did wire the car to be active later on).. Did anyone find out what was positive and negative for the AMT?


----------



## orakulo

I am considering getting one of these to use with a PPi BA2200.5 Black Ice. The amp will push the 3 way and a 10" sub (maybe a Fosgate P3). What do you guys think?


----------



## Big T

Should sound nice


----------



## Detune

Just got these installed in my old-school '95 Civic coupe. My God, so awesome! Had to cut the doors and use MDF spacers for the midbass drivers, but the mid and tweet mounted sweetly in the upper door. Used the stock tweeter location and cut a spot for the AMT.

I'm driving these passive with a PPI PC4400C, which is 50WPC. Headunit is a basic Pioneer DEH-6700BT, and to play at volume I've got to cross them at 100hz/24db. Subs are JL 10W0's in a power wedge box.

So, EQ wise, I found a very satisfying balance with 80Hz +3 (6db), 2.5kHz -3 (6db) and 8kHz -1 or -2 (2/4db). Subs are at 50/12db, any higher and they boom. This system actually needs the bass boost at 2. Any less and it's doesn't rock bass guitar and the like properly. 

Passive crossovers are set -3db on the tweets and the mid contour is on. Not exactly sure what it does, but it seems to smooth things when on. Wish we knew precisely what effect it provides.

I believe the higher location for the mid/tweet needs the EQ due to glass. I'd love to do a DEX-P99RS to get the esoteric EQ and full active setup but budget doesn't allow. 

Have an old PAR-650 laying around, considering doing a center audio console and throwing that bad boy in for more tuning options. 

Suggestions? I rode around for three hours tuning last night and this setup got grins while listening to 311, Portishead, Mono, Pendulum, Deadmau5, Propellerheads, and even Miles Davis.


----------



## 1Sik1500

Nice. I love mine i think one of my tweeters are on the way out though. Its not as vibrant as the pass side.. Any suggestions? Just powering mine off a 900.4 from the stock headunit.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Swap the tweeter left to right. See if it follows the tweeter. That way you can isolate it to the tweeter.
Check the crossovers to see if you have the tweeter adjustment set the same on both sides.


----------



## 1Sik1500

MAIDEN69 said:


> Swap the tweeter left to right. See if it follows the tweeter. That way you can isolate it to the tweeter.
> Check the crossovers to see if you have the tweeter adjustment set the same on both sides.


They are deff set to the same. I will pull them tonight and check. Do they offer replacements? Im only running them Passively.


----------



## Big T

They will warranty them


----------



## JJIsEdge

Just wanted to update in case someone is still considering these speakers but not sure yet:

I played around with the placement of the drivers some more and moved the 3" drivers to the A pillars from the dash board and the tweets into the sail panels and WOW what a difference. Also crossed down to 80hz on the midbass drivers and they are keeping up very nicely. I don't know why I had to cross so high in the beginning unless they just needed to break in but I must say my new favorite thing is revisiting songs I've known for years and hearing things I've never noticed before.

If you have the time to really play around with the placement, tuning, etc, these speakers will yield Incredible results. I still can't get over how amazing these sound just ran passively with RMS power with no DSP or EQ.


----------



## Detune

I'm considering getting a PC4800 to put 100WPC on these instead of the 50 I have now from my PC4400. Worth it? I can get these popping with 50 now.


----------



## Souths1der

I've had this set for almost a year now, posted early in this thread my satisfaction. While I still like them, one of the 3.5"'s went out, make some horrible sounds. I am feeding them from a JBL MS-A1004 with 100W RMS per channel, but I only have the level set at 50. I don't blast my music very often either. I don't think think it should have blown. Out of warranty per their website though. I haven't called yet, wonder if I should just move on to different 3.5"'s though.


----------



## Big T

If you haven't had them a year they are still in warramty


----------



## [email protected]

Souths1der said:


> I've had this set for almost a year now, posted early in this thread my satisfaction. While I still like them, one of the 3.5"'s went out, make some horrible sounds. I am feeding them from a JBL MS-A1004 with 100W RMS per channel, but I only have the level set at 50. I don't blast my music very often either. I don't think think it should have blown. Out of warranty per their website though. I haven't called yet, wonder if I should just move on to different 3.5"'s though.


Sorry they blew....ask big T if they don't have room to move air around them they heat up the coil. We will take care of you for sure....email me personally. [email protected]


----------



## Big T

Told ya they take care of you


----------



## Souths1der

There's room to move, they're in the dash of a 2013 RAM 1500...it's wide open all the way to the floor as well as all around the speaker. I'll shoot you a PM.


----------



## [email protected]

Well Big-T wrapped his in foam and blew em right away.


----------



## [email protected]

FYI testing the 2-way version as we speak!! Everyone asked for a 2 way so we tweaked a few things and made it happen.


----------



## Big T

Not right away. Couple of weeks. Lol


----------



## 1Sik1500

[email protected] said:


> FYI testing the 2-way version as we speak!! Everyone asked for a 2 way so we tweaked a few things and made it happen.


Spill the beans, Lets see some pictures. What else Does PPI/Soundstream have coming up?


----------



## [email protected]

They look the same minus the 3" but we tweaked the cross over a bit to accommodate the lack of a driver. The 6.5 actually has a high natural roll off as is.


----------



## Souths1der

Just so it's posted, Ryan is taking care of me, we just took the conversation offline.

FWIW I also have a PPI DSP and Sub. Very happy with the PPI products. I've reached the point in my life where I take the easiest road, and just replacing with new 3.5's seemed easiest based on my many many years of dealing with trying to utilize a warranty claim. This is a breath of fresh air for sure.


----------



## Skippman

I'm looking to put a set of these in my 2015 Jeep Wrangler. They changed the dash up a bit between 2014 to 2015 and there's now a 3" mid in the top of the dash firing up. How do the 3" mid's on these work off axis? Do you think I'd get decent sound with them basically reflecting off the roof. Here's a pic for reference.


----------



## brewermoe

dang it ... I can't find my notes, I have to read this thread, yet for another time!


----------



## 98Camaro

[email protected] said:


> FYI testing the 2-way version as we speak!! Everyone asked for a 2 way so we tweaked a few things and made it happen.


24 pages in and im glad to hear this! I have a camaro 1998 and im going to get these. Been debating Hertz, Focal etc but too dang pricey. 3 way in rear and 2 way up front ( factory setup minus me adding tweeter pods )

Ill be running these passive. One day ill have a DSP ( probably PPI.) I did a ATOM 900.1 on a re 4 ohm sub in a 2015 ZL1 camaro n it was AMAZING. something that small drives it well. 

Just need a stronger amp than my jl jx 360.4


----------



## atownmack

98Camaro said:


> 24 pages in and im glad to hear this! I have a camaro 1998 and im going to get these. Been debating Hertz, Focal etc but too dang pricey. 3 way in rear and 2 way up front ( factory setup minus me adding tweeter pods )
> 
> Ill be running these passive. One day ill have a DSP ( probably PPI.) I did a ATOM 900.1 on a re 4 ohm sub in a 2015 ZL1 camaro n it was AMAZING. something that small drives it well.
> 
> Just need a stronger amp than my jl jx 360.4


I'd go 3 way up front and 2 way in rear, or better yet skip the rears and focus all the money and attention to the fronts, which are way more important.


----------



## 98Camaro

atownmack said:


> I'd go 3 way up front and 2 way in rear, or better yet skip the rears and focus all the money and attention to the fronts, which are way more important.


If i have to ill make 2 sets of 3 ways work. i have a spare set of door panels to mess with n test on ( YAY for saving old parts ) ill be deadening my doors and sail panels also. Whats a better amp in the SQ area to drive these @ 4ohms? my JL JX 360/4 is only 70rms @ 4 ohms n i feel its too weak.

im driving my sundown e8v3 dual 2 ohm subs ( 2 og em ) with an Audison Srx 1D and love it.


----------



## atownmack

98Camaro said:


> If i have to ill make 2 sets of 3 ways work. i have a spare set of door panels to mess with n test on ( YAY for saving old parts ) ill be deadening my doors and sail panels also. Whats a better amp in the SQ area to drive these @ 4ohms? my JL JX 360/4 is only 70rms @ 4 ohms n i feel its too weak.
> 
> im driving my sundown e8v3 dual 2 ohm subs ( 2 og em ) with an Audison Srx 1D and love it.



In my opinion the best bang for buck amps are the ppi phantom series, and massive audio nx series.


----------



## 98Camaro

atownmack said:


> In my opinion the best bang for buck amps are the ppi phantom series, and massive audio nx series.


any input is great. i thank you on that one  now im itching to take my old 4" fosgate primes n test fit to see where i want the 3" mids


----------



## Big T

The PPI P 900.4 is what I run on mine. Sounds great. As stated above, don't go crazy on your rear full. I think these will be a little much for rear. You niche just look. At running coaxial in the ear like a pair of P.652s


----------



## 98Camaro

Big T said:


> The PPI P 900.4 is what I run on mine. Sounds great. As stated above, don't go crazy on your rear full. I think these will be a little much for rear. You niche just look. At running coaxial in the ear like a pair of P.652s


Any videos of them with no sub turned on?


----------



## 98Camaro

98Camaro said:


> Any videos of them with no sub turned on?


that amp should fair well with my Audison srx 1d


----------



## brewermoe

A couple of pics of mine:

















They sound great!

I have the tweeters 3dB down and Mid contour on, but that may change, I am still tinkering .... 

The mid in the door:


----------



## Darth SQ

brewermoe said:


> A couple of pics of mine:
> 
> View attachment 92145
> 
> 
> View attachment 92153
> 
> 
> They sound great!
> 
> I have the tweeters 3dB down and Mid contour on, but that may change, I am still tinkering ....
> 
> The mid in the door:
> 
> View attachment 92161


Very nice. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## MoparMike

brewermoe said:


> A couple of pics of mine:
> 
> View attachment 92145
> 
> 
> View attachment 92153
> 
> 
> They sound great!
> 
> I have the tweeters 3dB down and Mid contour on, but that may change, I am still tinkering ....
> 
> The mid in the door:
> 
> View attachment 92161


Looks nice!

Is the mid mounted in from the rear? It looks like the stock grill is used but the rubber gasket that it pops into isn't visible. I like the look a lot.


----------



## brewermoe

MoparMike said:


> Looks nice!
> 
> Is the mid mounted in from the rear? It looks like the stock grill is used but the rubber gasket that it pops into isn't visible. I like the look a lot.


It is! This it what the outcome was after changing my mind several times! Barley fits!









I used slotted tee's and ground off the edges. It is the PPI grill. I used filler to shape over the slotted tee's and give the round edge. It was a real challenge to get it to look "OEM". It took a week or so for it to stop shrinking so I could finish it! lol 

It's my first build so I really appreciate the compliments!


----------



## Big T

Looks great


----------



## EricP72

do these really sound that good? I was planning on doing a diy setup again, but the comments on here has me second guessing. Not sure where i would mount the mid and tweeters though in a 99 durango.


----------



## chesapeakesoja

I'm with manish - I've read through all of this and I'm not sure I'm sold. How do they sound?

What does their sound/tone most resemble in terms of other products?

Are they warm, bright, neutral, etc.?

I feel like feedback now would be especially useful as some of you guys have had some time tuning and critiquing them.


----------



## EricP72

What chesapeakesoja said. how about telling us brands this set compares to, how intense is the mid-bass? I gather the tweeter is the jewel of this set, so how is the mid-range? should the mid bass driver be mounted in a sealed enclosure or a tight door install is all that is needed?


----------



## 1Sik1500

I cant compare to other brand but i have these in my 2015 Frontier. Tweets Off Axis, Mids in factory dash location and mid bass in factory location. Powered by a 900.4 and stock HU. These things sound great. Clarity is real. I have a few bassheads that are friends and all are very impressed. One of them is a Die hard Hertz fan and purchased a set of these for his company car.. I would buy these again.


----------



## Lanson

Has there been a way found to power the mids and tweets separately from the woofers for a semi-active setup? Assuming using processing and amp channels to support that, but to leave the mid and tweet running passive off the crossover to save on channels.


----------



## EricP72

fourthmeal said:


> Has there been a way found to power the mids and tweets separately from the woofers for a semi-active setup? Assuming using processing and amp channels to support that, but to leave the mid and tweet running passive off the crossover to save on channels.


a amp like the kenwood kac-x4r would be perfectr for that. t/a 3 band par eq. 100+ watts per channel..would be real nice. i think a pair of JBL GTO-3EZ would be nice also, but you would have to watch the power to the woofer, as 500watts rms is a bit much.


----------



## EricP72

are the tweeters available separately?


----------



## Big T

manish said:


> are the tweeters available separately?



Not right now


----------



## MAIDEN69

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-motion-transformers-amt/tianle-amt65-4-3.5-amt-tweeter/

I can't remember what site it is, but someone has some that look identical to the ppi's which I own. I may have posted the link a page or so back.


----------



## MAIDEN69

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/


----------



## Lanson

manish said:


> a amp like the kenwood kac-x4r would be perfectr for that. t/a 3 band par eq. 100+ watts per channel..would be real nice. i think a pair of JBL GTO-3EZ would be nice also, but you would have to watch the power to the woofer, as 500watts rms is a bit much.


Yes but now go try and buy one. I had an X4R and should have NEVER gotten rid of it. Great amp, solves many problems in one go.

But again, not actually existent anymore.


So, to clarify, we can NOT power the mid and tweet on their own without the woofer on the crossover? Will it dead-short like some crossovers do when a speaker is not connected?


----------



## MAIDEN69

Question for Big T and or Ryan. I mounted the tweets in spheres. They will me mounted to the A pillars. I wanted to use some type of mini "ball" mount so I could adjust/aim them but I'm not finding anything out there I like or is small enough to not look horrible. So I am gonna fixed mount them to the pillar using a small hollow threaded rod so the wire can pass through. 
With that said, the tweets will end up being aimed towards the middle of the car. So the opposite tweet will end up being closer to "on axis" vs the tweeter closer to you which will be more "off axis" 
Any thoughts?
I am going to be running the RF 3Sixty.3 dsp unit and running all components active.
The tweets and mids will run off a Phoenix Gold Titanium series Ti500.4 amp. The mid-bass drivers off a RF Punch 800A4 amp. (either with just 2 of the 4 channels or in bridged mode). 
My question is really just about the tweets. Should I aim both right at my driving position (on axis) or go for the center of the car so it's pretty much (off axis) for both seats...
Guess the dsp will fix any issues anyways. But would rather start off with the correct aiming in the first place.


----------



## Big T

Mine are more straight across than at me. You don't need them on axis just make sure they are enough towards to so you here the left on out of your left ear. As I understand it, that will give you good width and help depth more than on axis.


----------



## MAIDEN69

It's a Corvette and the A pillar isn't far enough to the left of my head to aim it across. It starts off slightly left of my ear and angles inward towards your head. I think aiming in the middle will keep both slightly off axis. Not sure aiming at the side windows just in front of the passengers heads would be a better option. Although I usually drive with my windows down.
Guess I will stick with aiming between the two seats. Tune whatever I end up with best I can.


----------



## Lanson

Just thinking the way Andy W got me to think, if the speaker is operating below beaming frequency and crossed over properly, it probably won't matter a great deal, but you want to avoid reflections as much as possible. Ergo, tweeters in the sail panel area should be "best".


----------



## brewermoe

fourthmeal said:


> So, to clarify, we can NOT power the mid and tweet on their own without the woofer on the crossover? Will it dead-short like some crossovers do when a speaker is not connected?


I am running the Audison AV5.1. I have channels 1/2 going to the crossover with only the mid and tweet, channels 3/4 are going to the midwoofer, (5 going to the Sub) all filtered with the bitOne but the AV module can be configured to set crossover points as well. The tweet & mid on the crossover measured 4.4ohms and the Mid Woofer measured 4ohms.


----------



## Lanson

brewermoe said:


> I am running the Audison AV5.1. I have channels 1/2 going to the crossover with only the mid and tweet, channels 3/4 are going to the midwoofer, (5 going to the Sub) all filtered with the bitOne but the AV module can be configured to set crossover points as well. The tweet & mid on the crossover measured 4.4ohms and the Mid Woofer measured 4ohms.


OK, this is good news. Keep in mind the measured ohm will change on frequency, if the crossover has a "null" point. Your amp will not like it, for sure.

But this is good, because it tells me that possibly, I'd be OK if I did the same thing. I was thinking of these in a Vette build coming up next month. But I wanted to bi-amp them and more importantly, get some time alignment / correction difference between the midbass in the door and the mid-tweeter possibly higher up. 

Good stuff!


----------



## sirbOOm

Speaking of Vettes, we just did a Hertz Mille Legend 3-way set in one with JL XD amps and an RF 360.3 wired up and tuned all active and it sounded incredible.


----------



## MAIDEN69

What year Vette? Mine are going in a 97' C5.


----------



## Lanson

For my build it will be a C5 as well, a 2002. We already have tons of stuff on order, one of them being a Double D Mods console.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Nice. What are your plans for these? Locations?
Here is my build thread. Moving along slowly. I work way too much!!!
But shows the challenge I had fitting these in the car. Do you plan to start a build thread. Would love to see what you come up with.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...c5-corvette-sound-control-audio-overhaul.html


----------



## Lanson

MAIDEN69 said:


> Nice. What are your plans for these? Locations?
> Here is my build thread. Moving along slowly. I work way too much!!!
> But shows the challenge I had fitting these in the car. Do you plan to start a build thread. Would love to see what you come up with.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...c5-corvette-sound-control-audio-overhaul.html


Oh don't worry, I'm subscribed to your thread and loving it.

I'm planning out either to use a very dynamic 2-way, or a high power 3-way setup, with the DoubleD mods console and a nice double din, probably the Parrot. I plan on going crazy with the details, definitely not at the level of some of the super-pros around here (like Bing, JT, etc) but I'm going to try to do my absolute best with advanced LED lighting, fiberglassed pillars, custom rear deck and targa area, SD-3 sub(s), processor as the Core-1 or C-DSP (not sure which yet), micro amps x 3 or 4, etc. The Vette is my father's, it is a show car / Vette rally car, so it doesn't need to serve daily driver function but still needs to be very comfortable on the highway for long periods of time for those rally/group road trip events. It is getting a full carbon fiber body kit, RadioFlyer projector lay-down headlights, LED lighting everywhere, F14 Forgestar's all around wide as possible on Pole Position tires, JoC shocks and suspension, new paint, etc etc etc. It will be a rolling masterpiece of the best I can do, and I'll have about 4-5 months to build it on the weekends. So basically, I get to have my absolute way with it and I'll make it the best I can. Budget is limited but only relatively, as I have about 2k to spend just on equipment, thereabouts. Materials and install stuff, another g. Definitely more than I've ever had to work before so I hope to make it great. 

I know some guys scoff at amps that cost less than 2g just for a 2ch, but I'm not at that level, lol.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Sounds tight. I figured you were on this thread it meant you were using these 3-ways as well. They were tough to fit. Would have been simple had I just glassed the lower portion of door panels. Which I may do in the future if this doesn't work out. But the pods I built turned out so nice, I'm hoping it does.
I started painting the tweeter spheres and am about to start up on the rear deck/sub enclosures. Hopefully I can get back to making progress!!!
Good luck with your project.


----------



## Big T

FYI guys. Took 1st Amature at USACi finals with em last weekend.


----------



## Souths1der

Souths1der said:


> Just so it's posted, Ryan is taking care of me, we just took the conversation offline.
> 
> FWIW I also have a PPI DSP and Sub. Very happy with the PPI products. I've reached the point in my life where I take the easiest road, and just replacing with new 3.5's seemed easiest based on my many many years of dealing with trying to utilize a warranty claim. This is a breath of fresh air for sure.


Update: After a flurry of exchanged emails about getting the speakers replaced for a week, it's been radio silence for a while now. I still don't have the 3.5's replaced and my emails are not being answered. Maybe I'm getting sent off into a spam filter, who knows. But regardless, there's been no follow up. I've got the two 3.5" turned off in the DSP and the crossovers adjusted so I'm rolling with a 2-way the past few months. Still sound's OK, but I prefer the 3-way and a set specifically made for 2-way would for sure probably sound better.


----------



## 1Sik1500

Big T said:


> FYI guys. Took 1st Amature at USACi finals with em last weekend.


Awesome Congrats! Lets see some pictures of your setup as it currently is? or do you have build Log?


----------



## spaceace60

Souths1der said:


> I've had this set for almost a year now, posted early in this thread my satisfaction. While I still like them, one of the 3.5"'s went out, make some horrible sounds. I am feeding them from a JBL MS-A1004 with 100W RMS per channel, but I only have the level set at 50. I don't blast my music very often either. I don't think think it should have blown. Out of warranty per their website though. I haven't called yet, wonder if I should just move on to different 3.5"'s though.


If you want a small mid that stomps that one(PPI 3") into the ground(yes I have the PPi P.65c3 set as well!) The Pioneer stage4 Ts 062prs is incredible! and its only 2-5/8"!! you can run it right in place of the PPi mids as the X-over at about the same frequencies! mine works fine right off PPI's 3way passive unit! may sound crazy but i'm running both the Stage 4 and the PPi 3" mid in my setup! 

Has anyone else verified that their low mid(6.5") would pop fairly easy crossed over at like 80-120 at moderate levels,then later performed better after a break in period??( able to handle being x'd-over at 80 or so w/o popping?) or at very least did they quit popping at original settings of 120!?? mine are still new and I was just wondering(hopeful/wishful thinking!) that they will get better after being played awhile?? as of now I don't feel they take anywhere near what volume my Polk Sr6500"s and a few others would take ?? my feeling were that they pop pretty easy when new(with minimal bass or volume??


----------



## sqnut

spaceace60 said:


> Has anyone else verified that their low mid(6.5") would pop fairly easy crossed over at like 80-120 at moderate levels,then later performed better after a break in period??( able to handle being x'd-over at 80 or so w/o popping?) or at very least did they quit popping at original settings of 120!?? mine are still new and I was just wondering(hopeful/wishful thinking!) that they will get better after being played awhile?? as of now I don't feel they take anywhere near what volume my Polk Sr6500"s and a few others would take ?? my feeling were that they pop pretty easy when new(with minimal bass or volume??


What do you mean by pop? Any 6.5" will do fine crossed at 80--120 even on a shallow slope and at higher volumes. Do you have the gains cranked on the amp? I've had my SR6500 for 6 years and they have always run 50-60 hz....even straight out of the box.


----------



## Lanson

Think he means bottoming out, running out of excursion and then hitting hard parts. Happened to my Silver Flutes all the damn time, and I'd attribute it to a soft suspension sitting in a leaky IB door setup.


----------



## spaceace60

fourthmeal said:


> Think he means bottoming out, running out of excursion and then hitting hard parts. Happened to my Silver Flutes all the damn time, and I'd attribute it to a soft suspension sitting in a leaky IB door setup.


I never had problem on my Sr6500's but heard several people mention their P.65c3's started popping(like a pop from being driven too hard/low?) a few said they had to x them over higher(like 120hz) till broke in? as if they really couldn't take or started to distort easily at 80hz prior to break in? I also have my car well matted/sealed ect again I haven't installed my set yet so just feeling things out! Just reading all I can on them to set my mind at ease! Hell it took me forever to give in on buying them! and for the 1st time not due to being too expensive!!,but because they were so damn CHEAP lol! I thought no way could a $200 3 way set be as good as my $750 Sr6500's with neo magnets ect! btw has anyone else compared these to Polk Sr6500's(as someone convinced me to get rid of mine to get these!(I got these PPi's nib plus $200 cash) hope I made right choice lol?? feedback welcome!!


----------



## Big T

I won IASCA Triple Crown last year and 1st USACi Ama class this year with mine against Focal, Illusion, Hybrid, and Heartz


----------



## fcarpio

Excuse me if this has been mentioned before, but is the PPI tweeter the same as this?

Dayton Audio AMTPOD-4 Air Motion Transformer Automotive Tweeter Pair

They look awfully similar.


----------



## Big T

Nope. These
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-amt-mini-8-air-motion-transformer-tweeter-8-ohm--275-095


----------



## fcarpio

Big T said:


> Nope. These
> Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter 8 Ohm


Ahhh...


----------



## DDfusion

spaceace60 said:


> I never had problem on my Sr6500's but heard several people mention their P.65c3's started popping(like a pop from being driven too hard/low?) a few said they had to x them over higher(like 120hz) till broke in? as if they really couldn't take or started to distort easily at 80hz prior to break in? I also have my car well matted/sealed ect again I haven't installed my set yet so just feeling things out! Just reading all I can on them to set my mind at ease! Hell it took me forever to give in on buying them! and for the 1st time not due to being too expensive!!,but because they were so damn CHEAP lol! I thought no way could a $200 3 way set be as good as my $750 Sr6500's with neo magnets ect! btw has anyone else compared these to Polk Sr6500's(as someone convinced me to get rid of mine to get these!(I got these PPi's nib plus $200 cash) hope I made right choice lol?? feedback welcome!!


I hope you can get those Polks back. I would have NEVER gotten rid of those. I don't care who did what with these.


----------



## Lanson

You guys realize that pod has the same part inside right?


----------



## rton20s

fourthmeal said:


> You guys realize that pod has the same part inside right?


I initially thought the same thing, but I believe the two Dayton drivers are different. The AMT-Mini 8 is an 8 Ohm driver whereas the AMT-POD 4 is a 4 Ohm driver. Other than that, they are pretty light on specs. They do have different Qms and Qts. I wouldn't be surprised at all though if they shared parts between the two drivers.


----------



## MAIDEN69

The PPI AMT's in these sets are 4ohm. Well, just double checked mine. One is 4ohm. The other is 3.5ohm?!?!?! Measured 3 different times. Not that it's that far off, but still odd.


----------



## Lanson

rton20s said:


> I initially thought the same thing, but I believe the two Dayton drivers are different. The AMT-Mini 8 is an 8 Ohm driver whereas the AMT-POD 4 is a 4 Ohm driver. Other than that, they are pretty light on specs. They do have different Qms and Qts. I wouldn't be surprised at all though if they shared parts between the two drivers.


Have measurements been made on the PPI set with an independent test? I was led to believe that AMT is AMT is AMT. Granted there is an 8ohm and 4ohm version, but otherwise we're talking the company in China turning them out.


----------



## Detune

My left 3" mid did the same crackling, distorted noise and then died. Had this set less than six months. Running a PPI PC4800 so each channel is getting clean power to the passive crossovers. Hoping to get a replacement/RMA.


----------



## Darth SQ

Detune said:


> My left 3" mid did the same crackling, distorted noise and then died. Had this set less than six months. Running a PPI PC4800 so each channel is getting clean power to the passive crossovers. Hoping to get a replacement/RMA.


Good luck with that.
Everyone that was worth a damn there has been fired so Epsilon no longer has anyone on DIYMA to help you.
Best bet is to call the company directly.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Big T

Call You should be able to get one


----------



## bilbo6209

Hey guys, Im looking at speakers for my 2003 Audi S6 wagon, I have a line on an older set of Morel Supremo SW 6 and Morel MT-22 that will be ran active (not 100% sure on amp yet). I believe the morels to be 6 to 8 years old but that is a guess. 
if I can pick the Morels up for about twice the price of the PPIs would I be better off doing a SQ build with the older Morels or with new PPIs? obviously there are a lot of differences the Morels are pretty much drop in replacements for factory, other than having to run a couple new speaker wires. The PPIs would require customizing sail panels A pillars etc to mount as a 3 way but I would love the challenge of doing it 

Is the loss of the good people over at Epsilon a concern?


----------



## Gabe63

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Good luck with that.
> Everyone that was worth a damn there has been fired so Epsilon no longer has anyone on DIYMA to help you.
> Best bet is to call the company directly.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


So is [email protected] who was their hype man on this thread gone also? 

Are these components, and mid-ranges holding up?


----------



## Big T

Yes. Ryan went to another company. And yes they hold up great


----------



## Detune

So RMA is I ship them the dead midrange, they ship me a new one. Want $25 for "shipping and handling." I figure that covers their cost on the part and the shipping. Gonna ask them if they'll just sell me one so I don't have to wait as long.


----------



## Big T

The way it's supposed to work is return them to the dealer and they take care of it..


----------



## Big T

Detune where did you get them?


----------



## Alpine408

PPI is BS now my amp went down taking a AMT tweeter with it can not buy a replacement
Or if I can they have no Idea what they have or are doing

Me: i Blew an AMT tweeter on you p 65c3 set do you sell replacements? 
PPI: what is that part number again 
Me: P65c3 the AMT tweeters 
PPI: do you have a picture or a catalog page the part is in 
Me: Its the AMT tweeter on the front cover of your catalog the only AMT tweeter you sell
PPI: oh they come in a pack right? you have buy a new pack 
Me: a pack? you mean a whole new 3 way set you do not sell replacements? 
PPI: long pause whats the part number again?
Me: AMT Tweeters 
PPI: oh ya we don't sell those 
Me: you don't sell them at all or you don't sell replacements?
PPI: we do not sell any AMT tweeters 
Me: ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! 

I had to hang up.... ya last time I buy anything with the PPI name on it 
I miss the art series days when they had customer service that whole thing turned me off of anything sound stream as well


----------



## heyhi

Alpine408 said:


> PPI is BS now my amp went down taking a AMT tweeter with it can not buy a replacement
> Or if I can they have no Idea what they have or are doing
> 
> Me: i Blew an AMT tweeter on you p 65c3 set do you sell replacements?
> PPI: what is that part number again
> Me: P65c3 the AMT tweeters
> PPI: do you have a picture or a catalog page the part is in
> Me: Its the AMT tweeter on the front cover of your catalog the only AMT tweeter you sell
> PPI: oh they come in a pack right? you have buy a new pack
> Me: a pack? you mean a whole new 3 way set you do not sell replacements?
> PPI: long pause whats the part number again?
> Me: AMT Tweeters
> PPI: oh ya we don't sell those
> Me: you don't sell them at all or you don't sell replacements?
> PPI: we do not sell any AMT tweeters
> Me: ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!
> 
> I had to hang up.... ya last time I buy anything with the PPI name on it
> I miss the art series days when they had customer service that whole thing turned me off of anything sound stream as well



Guess im not buying the ppi amp anymore thanks for the info. Companies like that shouldn't be in buissness. No ppi dsp for me either

For some reason ppi just turns me off too. I wanted those 3 ways when they first came out and something turned me off at that time and i never got them.


----------



## Alpine408

The ps8 from arc audio is pretty badass dsp they actually have customer service that knows what they are talking about

Not sure about ppi amps now that sound stream owns them


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## Big T

They would have replaced it if he would have told them he need a replacement tweeter for the set. But most places won't break a set to sell and individual part unless it's warranty


----------



## Big T

Alpine408 said:


> The ps8 from arc audio is pretty badass dsp they actually have customer service that knows what they are talking about
> 
> Not sure about ppi amps now that sound stream owns them



The PPI Phantom amps are solid


----------



## rton20s

Big T said:


> They would have replaced it if he would have told them he need a replacement tweeter for the set. But most places won't break a set to sell and individual part unless it's warranty





Alpine408 said:


> PPI is BS now my amp went down taking a AMT tweeter with it can not buy a replacement
> Or if I can they have no Idea what they have or are doing
> 
> Me: *i Blew an AMT tweeter on you p 65c3 set do you sell replacements?*
> PPI: what is that part number again
> Me: *P65c3 the AMT tweeters*
> PPI: do you have a picture or a catalog page the part is in
> Me: Its the AMT tweeter on the front cover of your catalog the only AMT tweeter you sell
> PPI: oh they come in a pack right? you have buy a new pack
> Me: a pack? you mean a whole new 3 way set you do not sell replacements?
> PPI: long pause whats the part number again?
> Me: AMT Tweeters
> PPI: oh ya we don't sell those
> Me: you don't sell them at all or you don't sell replacements?
> PPI: we do not sell any AMT tweeters
> Me: ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!
> 
> I had to hang up.... ya last time I buy anything with the PPI name on it
> I miss the art series days when they had customer service that whole thing turned me off of anything sound stream as well


Granted, Alpine408 might not have done the best job of communicating with Epsilon. However, it goes to show you how well the people left at Epsilon actually know their product. Call up ORCA, or Arc, or Hybrid, or, or, or... and I can guarantee you they would have at least known right away which product the customer was talking about. 

One more reason that there isn't a single product from Epsilon that will get a second of consideration from me anymore.


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## Alpine408

rton20s said:


> Granted, Alpine408 might not have done the best job of communicating with Epsilon. However, it goes to show you how well the people left at Epsilon actually know their product. Call up ORCA, or Arc, or Hybrid, or, or, or... and I can guarantee you they would have at least known right away which product the customer was talking about.
> 
> One more reason that there isn't a single product from Epsilon that will get a second of consideration from me anymore.




How else would I be able to communicate my problem? I could not find the individual part number on the AMT tweet. all I had was the 3 way set model number google search really does not bring up much on this set other then where to buy and forum topics 


any who I bought some cheap replacements for the time being until I can afford some real tweets I have these off axis and loves the performance of the AMT's off axis so I am a little bumbed about poping one and not being able to replace


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## Alpine408

anybody mess with the parts express AMT's? or do I just bite the bullet and get some hybrids? 

Or any suggestions for some good off axis tweets that are in some A pillar build outs would be appreciated


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## Big T

The Daytons at parts express is the same AMT I think


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## Detune

Big T said:


> Detune where did you get them?


Clay's Audio in Memphis. He swapped one of the midbasses but couldn't get his distributor to take the set back so I had to RMA the mid and the other midbass, at a total cost of around $45.

System is up and running well now. Just have to x-over high to play loud, 100hz at 24db.

Will pop at 63/24 and 80/24.

Don't want to have to do this again, though they did turn me around quickly the second time through.


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## MAIDEN69

Big T said:


> The Daytons at parts express is the same AMT I think


I agree. I just verified the PPI AMT is a 4ohm driver. So is this Dayton AMT.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-transformer-automotive-tweeter-pair--275-195
May mount a little different(different housing) but may in fact be the same tweeter.


----------



## Kornnut

I think I will pull the trigger on these this week.


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## Scocuddie1

Bought of set of these last night, pretty excited to get these installed


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## Scocuddie1

spaceace60 said:


> If you want a small mid that stomps that one(PPI 3") into the ground(yes I have the PPi P.65c3 set as well!) The Pioneer stage4 Ts 062prs is incredible! and its only 2-5/8"!! you can run it right in place of the PPi mids as the X-over at about the same frequencies! mine works fine right off PPI's 3way passive unit! may sound crazy but i'm running both the Stage 4 and the PPi 3" mid in my setup!
> 
> Has anyone else verified that their low mid(6.5") would pop fairly easy crossed over at like 80-120 at moderate levels,then later performed better after a break in period??( able to handle being x'd-over at 80 or so w/o popping?) or at very least did they quit popping at original settings of 120!?? mine are still new and I was just wondering(hopeful/wishful thinking!) that they will get better after being played awhile?? as of now I don't feel they take anywhere near what volume my Polk Sr6500"s and a few others would take ?? my feeling were that they pop pretty easy when new(with minimal bass or volume??


I'm having the same issue with my mids popping. Has anyone confirmed this gets better after break in?


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## TheTodd

I guess I got lucky with my set. Right out of the box mine sounded great crossed at 63Hz @12dB. I did wait a week, though, until I really cranked the volume. But even at relatively loud volumes they hammered pretty well with no pops/noises.


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## Scocuddie1

TheTodd said:


> I guess I got lucky with my set. Right out of the box mine sounded great crossed at 63Hz @12dB. I did wait a week, though, until I really cranked the volume. But even at relatively loud volumes they hammered pretty well with no pops/noises.



I may have misstated my original assumption that they pop because of a low high pass.

Doing some adjustments after the post, I realized that my midbass are getting a bit more power then I think they can handle. Turned down the level's on my Bitone, and they seem to stop poping, though I do lose some of the volume from them. I'll keep messing around with them and report back.


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## rton20s

If you want your volume back, it will likely require a higher frequency and/or steeper slope crossover.


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## Scocuddie1

rton20s said:


> If you want your volume back, it will likely require a higher frequency and/or steeper slope crossover.


Higher frequency on the high pass? I currently have it set to 80hz with a 12db Linkwitz slope.


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## rton20s

Scocuddie1 said:


> Higher frequency on the high pass? I currently have it set to 80hz with a 12db Linkwitz slope.


Correct. If the popping is happening from over excursion, then switching to an LR4 HPF and/or raising the crossover frequency will probably help.


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## Darth SQ

rton20s said:


> Correct. If the popping is happening from over excursion, then switching to an LR4 HPF and/or raising the crossover frequency will probably help.


But then again.....it might be already too late.


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## rton20s

Darth SQ said:


> But then again.....it might be already too late.


If that is the case...


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## Scocuddie1

So the midbass popping was fixed by simple adjustments of the crossover and levels...

But then this happened today. What would cause this? Too much power?

All connections look good, the speaker wire doesn't looked burned or melted...


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## TheTodd

[email protected] said:


> We also discovered one day that the mid will play out to 20k effectively.





Grizz Archer said:


> Regarding the mid playing out to 20kHz. A frequency response graph does not yield anything I would call effective. Sure, I played with them without a tweeter, and I have seen people compete like that. But I still think it is foolish. Playing around to see the limits of a driver in a sound room is one thing, and looking at a frequency graph tells you what a MIC HEARS, not what humans hear. A mic has no judge of character, or relationship to space or density or "airiness". The set came with a tweeter for a reason. Tweeters always have been necessary and I am guessing they always will be.


Has anyone tried using the mid up to... let's say 8-10k and the tweeter from there up? I'm wondering about how high the mid can EFFECTIVELY play. Don't get me wrong, I love the way these sound but I'm in the process of changing things around slightly and I'm curious about what these mids can actually do.

In one of my previous cars I had Dayton Ref 7" in the doors and Ref 3" in the dash and it sounded great but was just missing _something_. I added a tweeter from about 8k and up and it went from great to WOW!

I currently am running a Pioneer DD into a JL HD900/5 bridged to these running full pasive (tweeters set to -3) and am very pleased. HOWEVER... I just picked up a JBL MS-8 and, per Andy's recommendation, was going to do the midbasses off the R channels of the JL and the mids/tweets passive off the F of the JL (100w/ch).

A possibility I thought of was running full active... midbasses and mids off the JL (again, 100w/ch), and the tweeters off of the MS-8 (20w/ch) from the previously mentioned 8k or so and up for that "sparkle" and _feeling_ these AMTs are hailed for.

It might be worth mentioning that as of right now I have the mids in the dash firing up at the windshield and the tweeters in the sails, BUT I'll more than likely be moving both to the A-pillars aimed across shortly.

Opinions or experiences... ?


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## CoastieRon

TheTodd said:


> Has anyone tried using the mid up to... let's say 8-10k and the tweeter from there up? I'm wondering about how high the mid can EFFECTIVELY play. Don't get me wrong, I love the way these sound but I'm in the process of changing things around slightly and I'm curious about what these mids can actually do.
> 
> 
> 
> In one of my previous cars I had Dayton Ref 7" in the doors and Ref 3" in the dash and it sounded great but was just missing _something_. I added a tweeter from about 8k and up and it went from great to WOW!
> 
> 
> 
> I currently am running a Pioneer DD into a JL HD900/5 bridged to these running full pasive (tweeters set to -3) and am very pleased. HOWEVER... I just picked up a JBL MS-8 and, per Andy's recommendation, was going to do the midbasses off the R channels of the JL and the mids/tweets passive off the F of the JL (100w/ch).
> 
> 
> 
> A possibility I thought of was running full active... midbasses and mids off the JL (again, 100w/ch), and the tweeters off of the MS-8 (20w/ch) from the previously mentioned 8k or so and up for that "sparkle" and _feeling_ these AMTs are hailed for.
> 
> 
> 
> It might be worth mentioning that as of right now I have the mids in the dash firing up at the windshield and the tweeters in the sails, BUT I'll more than likely be moving both to the A-pillars aimed across shortly.
> 
> 
> 
> Opinions or experiences... ?




So, did you do this? I was thinking the same thing...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheTodd

Nope. Never did. I still haven't installed the MS8 I bought MONTHS ago either. My son recently tried out for (and made) our local travel baseball team so we literally have baseball practice/classes 7 days a week. I'm hoping when the games die down in about a month or so I can get some time to do some work. It's also sapping me of any spare $$ as well.


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## spaceace60

Scocuddie1 said:


> I'm having the same issue with my mids popping. Has anyone confirmed this gets better after break in?


 Just curious but anyone else had this problem as one of my 6.5's popped at relatively low volume as well! thought at first maybe some Styrofoam from box got in around voice coil(in center of cone around phase plug)?? if so did this go away after break in period? thanks Jim text me answer if possible(814)271-9849


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## Detune

spaceace60 said:


> Just curious but anyone else had this problem as one of my 6.5's popped at relatively low volume as well! thought at first maybe some Styrofoam from box got in around voice coil(in center of cone around phase plug)?? if so did this go away after break in period? thanks Jim text me answer if possible(814)271-9849


I run the midbass at 100/24b to pound on 'em. 80/24db for more detail/lower vol.


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## Rzzza

Hey guys, I installed this set in my Dodge Dart and I'm pretty happy.


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## Rzzza

I flush mounted the mid and tweets in the doors, that is just where I felt they sounded best. The woofers are in the door but I plan on flush mounting them also and then lining the entire doors. I have these powered by JLAudio JX 400/4 bridged (200 watts per ch) passive but I am now taking it active and I'm wondering the ideal watts per each specific component? Is there a consensus here? I have read a bit but this is a hell of a long thread! I'm just gonna buy a 6 channel rather than add another 2 channel and I want to get the best one for this application.


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## Rzzza

Rzzza said:


> I flush mounted the mid and tweets in the doors, that is just where I felt they sounded best. The woofers are in the door but I plan on flush mounting them also and then lining the entire doors. I have these powered by JLAudio JX 400/4 bridged (200 watts per ch) passive but I am now taking it active and I'm wondering the ideal watts per each specific component? Is there a consensus here? I have read a bit but this is a hell of a long thread! I'm just gonna buy a 6 channel rather than add another 2 channel and I want to get the best one for this application.




photo hosting ebay


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## fcarpio

How do you like them? 

I had the Dayton version of the tweeters for a while and I really liked them. They require very low power to drive and need to be tamed, but once the tuning was done I was very pleased with the results. Due to their response (4.5k +), these tweeters have to be matched with a mid that can go that high or in a three way system. I still have the tweeters but since I went with the Illusion Audio C6 so I have them in my closet now.


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## Rzzza

Yeah I like them quite a lot but I need more fullness, more thickness and I don't know how to get it. Maybe its in the EQ? This is all pretty new to me. I am currently shopping for a processor because I am only happy to less than 3/4 volume then it sounds bad. Got any suggestions for processors or getting thick/full sound?


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## Detune

Rzzza said:


> Yeah I like them quite a lot but I need more fullness, more thickness and I don't know how to get it. Maybe its in the EQ? This is all pretty new to me. I am currently shopping for a processor because I am only happy to less than 3/4 volume then it sounds bad. Got any suggestions for processors or getting thick/full sound?


I have mine mounted just like yours...sealed up the woofers with electrician's clay for weight/rigidity and then put damping sheets in the doors. I find that I need to cut 2.5K and 10K a bunch, but then that's all my HU's EQ will do.


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## Rzzza

Detune said:


> I have mine mounted just like yours...sealed up the woofers with electrician's clay for weight/rigidity and then put damping sheets in the doors. I find that I need to cut 2.5K and 10K a bunch, but then that's all my HU's EQ will do.


Are you referring to his or squeal sound in a female vocal? I can't seem to tame that one but I need it fixed asap. I am looking into processors now I need to go active.


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## mpednault

Those that went an active set-up, do you still need to wire the small mids out of phase in the newer model of this set? I'm about to install them in my buddys Tundra and going active with a DSP-88R, a P900.4 and a P900.5... Thanks!


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## Detune

Anyone got an extra woofer? One of mine quit and PPI says 6 mos. before they get replacement drivers in. Ugh, may have to just buy a new set. Suggestions for replacement woofers? Might just by a pair that can play lower and louder.


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## Detune

Also, are the 6.75" mid bass drivers in the P65c2 set the same? I might just spring for a set of those for @ $130 and have a spare and spare set of tweets if no one has any ideas.


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## thegeedwun

Big T said:


> We had problems with the pillar trim blocking sound causing the truck to sound narrow( not a speaker issue) the are going to be aimed more at the driver now and sunk into the actual piller.
> 
> The tweeter ring does now come apart. You can't see them in the truck but on the wife's car you can so I masked the grill and used Sem dye and sprayed the ring them used a small art brush and did the grill to match her pillar trim. Looks nice


How in the world did you get it apart? I am worried about breaking them.

thx in advance!!!


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## JCJetta

Detune said:


> Also, are the 6.75" mid bass drivers in the P65c2 set the same? I might just spring for a set of those for @ $130 and have a spare and spare set of tweets if no one has any ideas.


Since we are necro bumping this thread - I have an unused pair of the midbass drivers collecting dust on my workbench if you need them.


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## thegeedwun

desperation can resurrect the decrepit


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## thegeedwun

Good news is PPI also says they are removable. Oddly enough, they did not give me any advice on the best way to do it. Pushing sure does not seem to be the best way. Will try gentle prying with something plastic. 

PPI says: 

"The tweeters in both kits can be removed from the housing they are packaged in to facilitate optional mounting techniques such as surface or angled mounted pods.

Or custom fabricated mounting such as in a fiberglass “Kick Pod” or door panel."


----------



## Detune

JCJetta said:


> Since we are necro bumping this thread - I have an unused pair of the midbass drivers collecting dust on my workbench if you need them.


I got a full set at a great price so I'm "set."

I run them full range now, no high pass on the mid bass. No popping, more mid bass, blends the best ever with the 10w0's at 80/24 for regular listening at 63/24+12db for rokken out.

The fact that they have 100 watts of PPI Powerclass 90's USA Made quality power with a >500 damping rate may have something to do with the fact that they don't pop any more. It's like, why run a HP x-over on the front stage? No need.


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## rton20s

Detune said:


> I got a full set at a great price so I'm "set."
> 
> I run them full range now, no high pass on the mid bass. No popping, more mid bass, blends the best ever with the 10w0's at 80/24 for regular listening at 63/24+12db for rokken out.
> 
> The fact that they have 100 watts of PPI Powerclass 90's USA Made quality power with a >500 damping rate may have something to do with the fact that they don't pop any more. It's like, why run a HP x-over on the front stage? No need.


Follow up post about needing replacement woofers in...


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## Detune

rton20s said:


> Follow up post about needing replacement woofers in...


Thanks for the feedback.

I see by your profile that you are an enthusiast, so I'd like you to give me your experience on this subject.

The great recording geniuses of the modern times tend to mix on 5.25" mid bass speakers with a tweeter in a sealed enclosure, full range, with or without a subwoofer. I'm talking about the Yamaha NS-10. This enclosure tends to roll off bass @100hz by 12db/oct., I believe. Sub blends with this nearly perfect with a crossover point of 80hz/24db. 

For years I never got my subs to blend properly running 12 and 18db crossovers. Now with 24, everything fits right.

The mid bass speakers in the PC65c3 set have cones that are literally less than 4.5" in diameter, but they do play down below 60hz. I can hear it.

Now I understand that being in an IB setup like a door means the speakers can exceed their excursion limits under great volume, hence the popping phenomena with these sets.

When I ran the 50x4 PPI PC4400C with these speakers, they popped to death crossed over under 125hz.

Now with a 100x4 4800C, they don't pop at all with high volume run full range. 

The only reason I can see to cross them over at all is to prevent over excursion, but that doesn't seem to be happening any more. 

Phase sounds better with them rolling off naturally too, or with 24db crossovers.

From your expert opinion, what are the pros and cons of using high pass crossovers on mid bass speakers in terms of SQ? 

Thanks.


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## rton20s

I'm not going to get into a big debate. Ideally, everything would come from a single driver playing 20Hz - 20kHz for left and right respectively, but that just isn't a realistic option. Especially in a car. 

It all boils down to protecting the driver. There is a history of these drivers "popping" and failing due to over-excursion in pretty typical installs. You're obviously aware of this.

You seem to think your change to a more powerful amplifier has resolved this issue for you. Based on damping factor? I don't think that it has. In time, I think they will fail the same way others have if you don't implement a high pass filter. And with proper filter settings, time alignment and EQ you shouldn't have any issues getting the speakers to blend. 

If Epsilon actually provided T/S parameters for the drivers, I would gladly model them for you to see what could potentially happen to the drivers without a high pass filter. But, this is modern day Precision Power. Not only do they not provide T/S parameters for their drivers, I wonder if they even have them for themselves.


----------



## thegeedwun

thegeedwun said:


> Good news is PPI also says they are removable. Oddly enough, they did not give me any advice on the best way to do it. Pushing sure does not seem to be the best way. Will try gentle prying with something plastic.
> 
> PPI says:
> 
> "The tweeters in both kits can be removed from the housing they are packaged in to facilitate optional mounting techniques such as surface or angled mounted pods.
> 
> Or custom fabricated mounting such as in a fiberglass “Kick Pod” or door panel."


Not that anybody else asked - found out they cannot be removed without breaking the glue bead and maybe voiding the warranty. Solved by creating a surface mount ring out of a 1.5" PVC repair ring with one side cut on a slight bevel. Found some Rustoleum that matches my dash color perfectly. Once I get them in, I will post a pic.


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## shutterguy

I plan on getting a set of these. A long time ago I had a set of Boston Acoustics 6.43 Pro 3-way components, I sold them awhile back, been wanting something similar since Boston no longer makes the 3-way pro series.


----------



## 2019Forte

So I know the tweeters can be off axis...what about the mids?


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## rton20s

2019Forte said:


> So I know the tweeters can be off axis...what about the mids?


I don't know the crossover points, but set up properly the mids should be fine off axis.


----------



## Jroo

They should be fine off axis. I assume you mean a door most likely. They only thing I have
ever heard is the set doesnt put out a lot of midbass.


----------



## shutterguy

Wonder if someone with these can help? I just bought a new set from Amazon, the tweeter has integrated wire leads, one with a clear jacket, the other has a red stripe. Which one should be the positive? Tried calling PP tech support, no luck and an email to them bounced back.


----------



## shutterguy

Got ahold of PP, red stripe is positive. Funny thing they told me it matter if you hooked them up backwards, an out of phase tweeter would not be noticeable.

Got them all installed and I will say they sound great, crisp and clean.


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## CoastieRon

1 year necro bump. 

After reading 36 pages, the one thing I did not find was the actual frequency response of each speaker in this set. The only reason I ask, I have the 6.5s and the tweeters left over (the mids are gone) and want to make a bluetooth boom box with the left over speakers. What's the highest I can low pass the 6.5 and the lowest I can high pass on the AMT?


----------



## Detune

CoastieRon said:


> 1 year necro bump.
> 
> After reading 36 pages, the one thing I did not find was the actual frequency response of each speaker in this set. The only reason I ask, I have the 6.5s and the tweeters left over (the mids are gone) and want to make a bluetooth boom box with the left over speakers. What's the highest I can low pass the 6.5 and the lowest I can high pass on the AMT?


These need at least 100 watts clean power per side, and you can cross them as low as 50/24 if your sub is in the shop, lol. I usually have them at 80/24 with the subs at same and this has been the longest lived/most used setting in 6 years of ownership. They'll take 63/24 too, depends on your taste and music.


----------

