# Line out converter



## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Looks like Im gonna be trading my 07 ram for an 06 mega cab with nav. Im gonna want to keep the factory nav head so Im gonna need a good line out converter. suggestions? is there anything that puts out a nice clean signal with good voltage? Is anyone having good luck with a factory head? any other options for getting the signal from my head to my amps? FINALLY, my amps have high level inputs. is it possible to get good results using those?


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## KAPendley (Nov 19, 2007)

Soundgate LOC's have 4 volt preouts.


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

As long as your factory head unit does not have a bunch of built in equalization using the factory speaker outputs will work just fine. Otherwise a JL Clean Sweep or something else that does correction is the only way to get a good unequalized flat signal to your amps.

Go to JL Audio, Rockford Fosgate or Audio Controls web sites and look at what they have.


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Its got the factory dodge infinity system and it sure doesnt sound like its got equalization built in. Im thinking about an audiocontrol crossover with high level inputs like the EQX but Id need 2 of them to keep my fader working right??


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

www.davidnavone.com has good quality 4 channel LOCs. However, that's all it is...no eq. But if you're going to just go LOC, I'd get one of his.


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## KAPendley (Nov 19, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> Its got the factory dodge infinity system and it sure doesnt sound like its got equalization built in. Im thinking about an audiocontrol crossover with high level inputs like the EQX but Id need 2 of them to keep my fader working right??


ARG!! Pain to bypass. The amp is above the airbag on the passengers side dash. Its a challenge, but you'll have fun with it. 
Well, not so much to bypass, just to get to the damn thing. lol.


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

What about using the speaker level inputs on the amps? Can I get good sound like that?


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

I would try using the line levels first before you invest in something. You will need to get to the speaker wires anyway to get your signal for a processor.

I really don't need my JL cleansweep, but my friend is a JL Dealer and I bought it from him after he upgraded his car to a Clarion Nav Unit. It puts out a really high quality signal.

I have heard many complaints about the Navone LOCs not putting out a good signal for a true audiophile.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> What about using the speaker level inputs on the amps? Can I get good sound like that?


I can't speak for your amps high level inputs ability to handle the power coming from your OEM amps, but it is known that as long as you high level output power from them is clean and noise free as they should be unless pushed into clipping, then it will be considered better then a low level signal because it is "COMPLETELY isolated from ground".

Here is a link to the JBL MS-8 OEM integration device (not out yet) which will tell you a little more about what is recommended for your type of setup.

http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/showthread.php?t=65668

"I've received lots of PM and a bunch of questions about how this thing will work, so this is more for informative purposes than a shameless plug for our product...For those of you who may be wondering about this thing, Here's a description:

MS-8 comes with the pre-amp/amp, a small display, a wireless remote control, a binaural microphone and a setup CD.

MS-8 will have 8 speaker level inputs, 8 line level inputs and an iPod input. The inputs are summed to provide a full-range 2-channel signal. If 6 or fewer inputs are required, then the last 2 can be used for an additional aux input.

There are no digital inputs. Why? Because the real benefit of digital input is "no noise". The downside to providing one is that for 99 percent of users, it's more hassle than it's worth and will cause a great deal of confusion. Not too many people understand that the connector doesn't determine the signal. What I mean is, if we put a toslink input and a user hooks up a toslink output, it will only work is the signal is compatible. DVD-Audio isn't available on a digital output, DVD signals are 48k, PCM is 44.1, home-made digital audio can be anything. The signal from tuners is often only output on the RCAs. For the vast majority of users, there is no benefit and too much opportunity for disappointment. As far as noise goes, our inputs are differential, so the commoon mode noise rejection is super high. There won't be any noise.

There are 8 input channels, so the 8 speaker level inputs and 8 line level inputs are basically in parallel. You can use any combination.

Once the signals have been combined and un-EQed (for a flat 2-channel signal), the signal is processed with Logic7. That provides signal steering for a center channel (if you have one--if not, no problem) and processing for side and rear channels. L7 works on any 2-channel source and is our version is written for cars rather than live-in rooms, so it sounds MUCH better than any of the encoded formats in a car. The 2-channel downmix of any encoded DVD or DVD-A disc will play back in full surround. If good-old 2-channel is what you want, L7 is defeatable and the channels are fully configurable (there are 8 output channels and they can be pre-amp channels or powered channels--20W x 8 at 4 ohms, 30W at 2 ohms). You can have 3-way front, a center and a sub, 2-way front, rear and a sub...whatever you want to do.

The electronic crossover that's built in is fully configurable. You can assign any channel to be anything and it includes an EZ setup mode and an advanced mode. In EZ setup, you tell each channel the speaker location (front right, for example), then you tell it what speaker is connected (6" full-range). It sets the crossover point. In advanced mode, you tell the channel the location (right front) and then assign a filter type (HP, LP, BP) and then you set the filter frequency (you can assign any value between 20 at 20kHz) and the slope (1st-4th order).

After the crossover setup is completed, you move on to the EQ. You put on the microphones (they look like airline headphones but contain mics instead of speakers) and insert the CD. The display will give you some instructions to sit in the driver's seat and look at the left mirror and press "go". the unit will make a quick sweep of all 8 output channels. Then it will ask you to look forward and will make another sweep. Finally, it'll ask you to look to the right--another quick sweep. You can measure only the driver's seat or up to 4 seats. After the measurements are made (takes about 5 minutes) the unit will calculate the frequency response, level and arrival time for all 8 channels in each seat and crunch some numbers (another 30 seconds or so). It auto-tunes the car with 48 measurements per seat (up to 4 seats). It will output a tuning optimized for the driver, passenger, compromise between driver and passenger and one for the rear seats. If you use a center channel, both front seats will sound the same and the image will be great for rear seat passengers too.

After the auto-tuning is done, it will allow you to change the target curve. You can call up a 31-band EQ tool and make whatever changes you want. Unlike a regular EQ, you don't have to find an RTA and tune the car with the EQ, you just draw the curve you want to hear and press "go" and it does the work in implementing your curve. Then you can switch back and forth between your curve and the automatic one and continue making changes until you're satisfied. The curve you draw will always be adjusted in level so that the maximum number of bits are available to describe the signal (optimized for dynamic range). Once you save the curve, you can access any of the settings optimized for any seat using the remote control and the display.

You can turn Logic7 on and off, adjust the level of the center channel, use a balance control, fader, 3 or 11-band graphic EQ or adjust the level of the bass. THe bass control isn't a gain control for the subwoofer output, it's a filter that works with the crossover and applies the right amount of bass to ALL channels so the illusion of bass up front isn't destroyed when you turn up the bass.

Answers to some likely questions:

1. You don't have to use the unit's volume control. You can use the one in the head-unit if you want to.
*2. Maximum input voltage on the RCAs is 2V and 15V on the speaker level inputs. The signal is converted directly into digital after the preamp buffer, so a high signal level is far less important in this device than in conventional ones. The input is fully differential, so there won't be noise. I suggest speaker level connections because they are COMPLETELY isolated from ground.*
3. The automatic EQ isn't exactly parametric or graphic. It's a very powerful algorithm that works on the impulse response to adjust both time and frequency response. It's amazing and does in about 30 seconds what I can do with an 80 band parametric EQ, crossover, time alignment and a serious analyzer in about 3 days.
4. The display doesn't have to be mounted. If you don't want iPod control or the ability to adjust after setup, you can unplug the display and use MS-8 as a "black box".
5. The unit is small--about 8.5" x 11" x 2.5"
6. Price will be about $800...TBD
7. The software is updatable via USB and a PC.

It does what all other OEM integration tools do and what every other DSP (EQ, Crossover, Time alignment, 7.1) processors do, but it sounds better, is easier to use, is less expensive and is far more advanced in terms of DSP power. Best of all, it's a tool you can be successful with, rather than a whiz-bang collection of filters and adjustment possibilities that require a PhD in acousitcs to use.
__________________
Andy Wehmeyer
Product Marketing Manager
Harman Consumer Group
Mobile Systems Division"


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## ashlar (Dec 4, 2008)

Thumper26 said:


> David Navone - Car Audio Engineering has good quality 4 channel LOCs. However, that's all it is...no eq. But if you're going to just go LOC, I'd get one of his.



Take a look at this first. If you see nothing wrong, then go for it.

Navone NE-774V LOC Test


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## GhettoSQ (Jun 21, 2005)

No one has mentioned PAC? I have one that I like reasonably well, though I'm no expert. It claims 2:1 voltage (and there are adjustable gains) and I'm getting around 4 volts if my gain setting skills are any judge. I imagine the LOC route has its problems due to head unit amplification; how much better can one be?


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Thread is over a year old guys. I ended up with a PAC piece thats designed just for what im doing in my truck


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Guys,
Hres the scoop with that Dodge system...I think...if it's the one I'm thinking of:

1. 6x9s iin doors are dront midrange/midbass speakers. They also play a non-fading bass signal. Chck this by fading to the rear while listening to something with some good bass.

2. Door 6x9s have a 12dB/oct high-pass filter at 60Hz to eliminate rattles.

3. Rear speakers delayed by about 12mS for a sense of ambience.

4. Left front speakers also delayed to center the stage a bit.

5. Dash mids are high-passed at about 200Hz. 

6. Nav radio sends fixed-level audio to the amplifier which controls volume, bass, treble, balance and fader via the J1850 (data) line.

7. Output of the radio is balanced. Output of the amp is balanced. 

8. There are two solutions: 1) install a signal summing device and un-EQ after the factory amp. 2) Install a separate preamp with a volume control and eliminate the factory amp.


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Id have to go out in the garage and see which piece I have but this is what I plan on using. I believe I have the AOEM piece. Ill be replacing everything but the nav unit in my truck
Products Detail


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