# A killer Combo of 6.5 & Tweeters (raw drivers)



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Putting together a system for a 08 Crewcab f150. Whats the best "bang for the buck" 6.5 & Tweeter combo (raw drivers)?

JD


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

SB Acoustics


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Gump_Runner said:


> Putting together a system for a 08 Crewcab f150. Whats the best "bang for the buck" 6.5 & Tweeter combo (raw drivers)?
> 
> JD


I was very happy with the Silver Flute 6.5" nice grunt and pretty decent midrange. for $32 you cant go wrong.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Niebur3 said:


> SB Acoustics


:beerchug:


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> SB Acoustics


Which model? Looking at the websites there are numerous models.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Gump_Runner said:


> Which model? Looking at the websites there are numerous models.


2x SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 Neo Magnet, Ring Dome Tweeter @ $57.20/ea

2x SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, 6" Woofer (it's a 6.5") @ $57.85/ea


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

An even cheaper option would be:

2x SEAS Prestige 27TAFNC/G (H1397) 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter @ $42.90/ea
2x Silver Flute W17RC38-04 6.5" Woofer Wool Cone 4 ohm @ $29.80/ea

I'd pick the SB Acoustics unless I was going for a real minimum-budget build though.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

GreatLaBroski said:


> 2x SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 Neo Magnet, Ring Dome Tweeter @ $57.20/ea
> 
> 2x SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, 6" Woofer (it's a 6.5") @ $57.85/ea


Gonna be pretty tough to beat that combo for the coin


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I have a set of Flutes. They're OK, but the SBs are way nicer. Spend a little more on the SBs


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

rob feature said:


> I have a set of Flutes. They're OK, but the SBs are way nicer. Spend a little more on the SBs


Yep, the SB set is pretty much unbeatable for the price IMO.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Just ordered. Will the 6.5 need a enclosure?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

No, buy some sound deadener and seal the doors with it the best you can.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Check out this video to see an example of sound deadening a door “to the max”. https://youtu.be/h3EXuHlBy4M

Something less extreme will also work well. The goal is to seal up as much of the holes as possible to make the door itself into an enclosure, and to prevent rattles of other stuff in the doorskins.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Check out this video to see an example of sound deadening a door “to the max”. https://youtu.be/h3EXuHlBy4M
> 
> Something less extreme will also work well. The goal is to sea up as much of the holes as possible to make the door itself into an enclosure, and to prevent rattles of other stuff in the doorskins.


Awesome!


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm on my first active build with the sb17nrx and Tang band 25-2176, both crossed at 2500hz with 24db slope. Absolutely love how it sounds for the price 



Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


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## german88 (Jun 18, 2015)

Running this exact setup and absolutely loving it! The TB 25-2176 is amazing. favoring it over a set of NVX XSPTW's. SB' were used in my last Tundra and now in a new F150. Interestingly I've found the same sweet spot when crossing the TB's at 2400/2500hz 24 db slope.

This tweeter should not be overlooked. My only concern would be the bulbous grill but this ended up being a non issue in my stock A pillars on the F150.


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## ethann944 (Nov 12, 2017)

gw2405 said:


> I'm on my first active build with the sb17nrx and Tang band 25-2176, both crossed at 2500hz with 24db slope. Absolutely love how it sounds for the price
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


Yes! I used these and I hardly had to dsp the top end. Fantastic build quality as well

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Gump_Runner said:


> Just ordered. Will the 6.5 need a enclosure?


Oh I forgot to mention*: Double check to make sure you can fit the mounting diameter and depth of the SB29 Tweeters*. The SB29's have a mounting cutout diameter of 55mm, overall faceplate diameter of 72mm, and depth of 26.9mm. The Tang Band 25-2176S have a mounting cutout of 55mm too, but a depth of 18.6mm and an overall faceplate width of only 58mm.

Here's some test data on the Tang Band 25-2176S.
Frequency Response 0/15/30/45 degrees
Cumulative Spectral Decay
Total Harmonic Distortion

Here's some test data on the SB29:
Frequency Response 0/15/30 degrees
Cumulative Spectral Decay
Total Harmonic Distortion

The reason I'm posting this to discuss the differences I see in the two. Overall they both appear to be very good tweeters. 

The SB29 seems to have lower overall THD and I would be slightly concerned about the 3rd order harmonic distortion in the TB around 3khz unless you plan to cross even higher. The SB29 also has a more stable frequency response from 2khz to 14.5khz at 30 degrees off axis, which might be the case if you're mounting on a door or in the dash. 15 degrees is pretty darn good up to 25khz.

The TB frequency response is a little more wobbly and tends to fall off above 10k when off-axis, although the falloff is well behaved.

They both look good on cumulative spectral decay. FS for the TB was tested at 763hz (rated at 800hz). FS for the SB29 is rated at 680hz and appears to be slightly lower in this impedance vs frequency chart.

They should both play pretty low and accept a crossover at 2.2-2.4khz. The SB29 appears to be the slightly better tweeter, however, it's hard to define actual musicality from graphs.

The key here is that you have an idea how and where you'll be installing these tweeters. The TB seems much easier for a flush mount car install such as door or panel, but has a large dome grill. The SB29 is larger and deeper, but sits more flush and would do well behind a dash grill which may not have much clearance for the TB dome grill. In that application, the SB29's superior off-axis response will help too.

The TB is also less than half the price of the SB29, currently on sale at Parts Express for $22.

If you decide to go with the TB, just contact Madisound and cancel the SB29's from your order since they won't ship until Monday anyways. I think you'll enjoy either, so choose based upon ease of install.

My preference is the SB29 for the reasons I mentioned above. If I was doing an install behind a stock grill (door/dash/etc) where clearance above the tweeter was an issue and/or it'd be substantially off-axis I'd choose the SB29. If I was drilling and mounting on the door panel or doing an a-pillar / sail panel install I'd look at the TB because it'll make life easier and the SB29 will likely not easily fit, plus it'd be more on-axis making the off-axis frequency response less of a consideration.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Both choices given are very good, however I went with the Silver Flutes some 8 years ago. One of the very first to run them.
Run the SF's sealed and you'll be surprised. 

I'm going back to them, but I'm thinking of changing up my MR/TW section to the SB Acoustics SB12PFC25-4-COAX 4" Coaxial- 4 ohms and doing a point source type install. They don't need tons of power, which I like. Still toying with a few other options though.



https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/coaxial/sb-acoustics-sb12pfc25-4-coax-4-coaxial-4-ohms/


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

rob feature said:


> I have a set of Flutes. They're OK, but the SBs are way nicer. Spend a little more on the SBs


Could you elaborate on what makes SB nicer in your eyes (or ears)?

Thanks.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Oh I forgot to mention*: Double check to make sure you can fit the mounting diameter and depth of the SB29 Tweeters*. The SB29's have a mounting cutout diameter of 55mm, overall faceplate diameter of 72mm, and depth of 26.9mm. The Tang Band 25-2176S have a mounting cutout of 55mm too, but a depth of 18.6mm and an overall faceplate width of only 58mm.
> 
> Here's some test data on the Tang Band 25-2176S.
> Frequency Response 0/15/30/45 degrees
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was planning on getting some tweeter (pods?) to attach to the A-Pillars. Is that viable - would it help?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Mless5 said:


> Could you elaborate on what makes SB nicer in your eyes (or ears)?
> 
> Thanks.


I remember it being more transparent. It did its work seemingly effortlessly. More eloquent. Build quality is much better. These were not in the same install though; I've never compared them side to side. I'd be using the 6" if it would fit.

I can tell you a little more about the Flutes though. They had what I can only describe as a muted honk that I never could work out with EQ. I didn't like they way they sounded in the midrange. Bass and midbass were good though. I think it would be better suited to midbass duty with a dedicated midrange - at least the way I had it set up.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 

I absolutely loved my 6.5" Silver Flutes and don't have a single bad thing to say about them all around really except for the diameter of the mounting holes on the flange 



rob feature said:


> I remember it being more transparent. It did its work seemingly effortlessly. More eloquent. Build quality is much better. These were not in the same install though; I've never compared them side to side. I'd be using the 6" if it would fit.
> 
> I can tell you a little more about the Flutes though. They had what I can only describe as a muted honk that I never could work out with EQ. I didn't like they way they sounded in the midrange. Bass and midbass were good though. I think it would be better suited to midbass duty with a dedicated midrange - at least the way I had it set up.


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

those sb acoustics neos are just above mediocre when I tried them literally nothing special at all on axis or off axis. They were supposed to replace my massive CT-2 german silk tweeters but the CT-2s have a much livelier and open airy sound by comparison which the SB29RDCNs cant achieve no matter how much tuning, power, positioning was done to it. The neos would have been great if I havent heard tweeters that sound much better for the price.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Mless5 said:


> Thanks for sharing your thoughts
> 
> I absolutely loved my 6.5" Silver Flutes and don't have a single bad thing to say about them all around really except for the diameter of the mounting holes on the flange


I probably could have done more with them using better tuning tools. I was just using an 80PRS. I did do a direct comparison with the SEAS U17RCY/P and the 5.5" Flute though. Still doing it actually. The difference in those 2 drivers is dramatic. Right out of the box with a flat EQ the SEAS made the Flutes seem like toy speakers. Not trying to ditch on the Flutes. I still own a pair. For what they are, they're awesome. But left some things to be desired for me. To be fair though the SEAS aren't perfect either. They won't get loud enough & will come out eventually.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Jeffdachefz said:


> if I havent heard tweeters that sound much better for the price.



for example?


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## criddopher (Apr 3, 2011)

I've run my dayton reference front end with vifa tweeters for YEARS and love it. Used to be the go to answer for this type of stuff on this forum. 

My other car I'm going with the ssa evil speakers, I've not heard them yet but the reviews i find are good. They are definitely more expensive than the dayton route at 200$ for a 2way set but still seem a good value to me.


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## pr3m0 (Mar 28, 2018)

Flutes seem to be unanimously what everyone is recommending. Might have to look into these for my setup....


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

Mless5 said:


> for example?


read my post again... The answer is in there. These are from the CKX sets that were popular back then, these german silk CT-2s are Around 50 dollars for a pair. much better details and clarity, overall brighter in a good way, makes my soundstage wider over the sb acoustic neos along with much more airy vocals, the sb acoustic neos lack 10khz and above when you do a side by side comparison. The CT-2s are a good bit more efficient then the sb acoustics and handles power better as well. A single pair on a lot of power can keep up with my B pillar walled 30k sub stage at full tilt, cant say the same for the SB neos. You will need an EQ that can tone down 5khz to 8khz for them especially when going louder.


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

Will be interesting to see how these SB17's stack up to the TM65v2's in my car.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Jeffdachefz said:


> read my post again... The answer is in there. These are from the CKX sets that were popular back then, these german silk CT-2s are Around 50 dollars for a pair. much better details and clarity, overall brighter in a good way, makes my soundstage wider over the sb acoustic neos along with much more airy vocals, the sb acoustic neos lack 10khz and above when you do a side by side comparison. The CT-2s are a good bit more efficient then the sb acoustics and handles power better as well. A single pair on a lot of power can keep up with my B pillar walled 30k sub stage at full tilt, cant say the same for the SB neos. You will need an EQ that can tone down 5khz to 8khz for them especially when going louder.


The issue I have with those is that Massive Audio doesn’t have the t/s specs provided for those tweeters (not even FS) and no reference frequency response charts. So a buyer would essentially flying blind here.

That 5-8khz peak you hear at higher volumes, if it sounds harsh, may be harmonic distortion.

The CT 2II German silk tweeters are not, in fact, more sensitive than the SB29 tweeters. The SB29’s are 94db whereas the CT 2II’s are 92db.

I’m not convinced these are better but who the heck am I to argue with your ears. It’s a sweet deal if you’re happy with them. I’d be curious if you just prefer high-frequency-heavy tweeters and would be happier with something like a metal/ceramic dome.

Out of curiousity, what did you have your crossovers set at for your CT2II’s?


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## stevemk07 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am running as my budget 2 way front build Dayton RS180-4s and the NVX XSPTWs. 

I am curious if anyone can compare these Daytons to the SB accoustic drivers mentioned earlier in this thread?

I like the Daytons, just curious....


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

GreatLaBroski said:


> The issue I have with those is that Massive Audio doesn’t have the t/s specs provided for those tweeters (not even FS) and no reference frequency response charts. So a buyer would essentially flying blind here.
> 
> That 5-8khz peak you hear at higher volumes, if it sounds harsh, may be harmonic distortion.
> 
> ...


Crossed at 3150khz at -18db slope linkwitz riley. It can be crossed lower but loses out on a bit of power handling as in when i'm demoing full tilt. 

I originally bought the sb 29s because of the advertised sensitivity and on axis frequency response chart thinking it would be a decent upgrade over the CT-2s but in a clear direct swap comparison, they definitely are not. They are far less sensitive than the massives. I even bridged one of my spare 4 channels to give them 450 watts each just to see if they wake up from that. No avail but they did sound A LOT better than being on 150 watts however the CT-2s even on 150 watts sounded overall better. It can also go way louder if i needed it to. Sometimes whats on paper doesn't always transfer to real world performance. 

The 5khz to 8khz cut would probably just my listening preferences, others that have bought the tweeters based on my recommendations barely touched that point, however its most likely their vehicle acoustics at play as well.

I actually prefer beryllium tweeters the most but those are for another car later down in the line.


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## criddopher (Apr 3, 2011)

I had the massive audio ct-2 tweeter. Its not nearly as smooth and detailed at the vifa xt25 i have now. It gets really loud though.


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## Ifixtheinternet (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: A killer Combo of 6.5 &amp;amp;amp; Tweeters (raw drivers)*



rob feature said:


> I remember it being more transparent. It did its work seemingly effortlessly. More eloquent. Build quality is much better. These were not in the same install though; I've never compared them side to side. I'd be using the 6" if it would fit.
> 
> I can tell you a little more about the Flutes though. They had what I can only describe as a muted honk that I never could work out with EQ. I didn't like they way they sounded in the midrange. Bass and midbass were good though. I think it would be better suited to midbass duty with a dedicated midrange - at least the way I had it set up.


This was my experience too, and they were both in the same vehicle.

The flutes have excellent midbass, but all throughout the midrange they had a muddled sound that could not be fixed with EQ, lacking detail and adding their own "tone" to the sound.


The SBs seem to produce sound as it should be heard. They don't seem to add anything, and the lack of EQ needed compared to the flutes indicates they don't take much away either. They just sound, "correct". They do have less midbass, but actually seems to be better matched to the rest of the spectrum anyway.

If it is accuracy and SQ you're after, they are more than worth twice the price of the flutes IMO.

We're always talking about diminishing returns for rediculous cost in car audio, but it seems like the SBs get you like 95% there for a very good price.

I'm also running the SB acoustics / Tang band combo and it's a true winner. They mate up in the crossover really well and I have no desire to change either one after upgrading from flutes / Alpine tweeter combo.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## 3hone (Nov 29, 2009)

Easy to get caught up in the hype and allure of high end expensive gear, good to know there are examples of low cost SQ set-ups. 

Seems like the SB17 and SB29 or TB 25-2176S mate well together for a 2-way front stage. Any budget SQ subwoofers recommended for a set up like this?


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

3hone said:


> Easy to get caught up in the hype and allure of high end expensive gear, good to know there are examples of low cost SQ set-ups.
> 
> Seems like the SB17 and SB29 or TB 25-2176S mate well together for a 2-way front stage. Any budget SQ subwoofers recommended for a set up like this?


I think you’re going to get a lot of recommendations of the Dayton HF and HO series subwoofers. I have not used them, but they’re very well reguarded and have some nice motor designs with triple shorting rings.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I have the SB29 with Neo motors and they are fantastic and nice and detailed with good tonal accuracy. They were also relatively easy to EQ too with the DSP. I also had those Massive Audio CT-2 tweeters. They get loud yes but for sound quality I found them to be lacking and they were a pita to EQ too.


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