# focal utopia be - amp



## mastero (May 11, 2011)

Hello everyone
I own focal Utopia BE n07
I want to know which amplifier best suits them
I do not have the cross block
Probably will connect with the bit one
What is better 2-channel amplifier with 4-channel amplifier 
Or 6 channel amplifier
Help and ideas
Budget - $ 2,500 used and also good

thanks


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## rnl8888 (Sep 16, 2010)

Focal LE series specifically Focal 4.75 LE


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## TJeep56 (Apr 24, 2011)

I would recommend the mosconi or steg if you can find some. I had a set of steg amps bi-amping my utopia be's and have nothing but good things to say about them. I wouldn't go with the focal amps as even focal recommended I go with steg or mosconi. 
Another one I haven't had any experience with yet but I think will be my next amp to play with is Brax. They look to be very solid amps that I have heard good things about. 

On a side note I have 3 steg amps that I cant fit in my current vehicle. Pm me if your interested.


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## mastero (May 11, 2011)

and what about audison VRX 6ch ? 

or Mcintosh 6ch ?


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## 226z (Jan 13, 2009)

I've got a Sinfoni 4 channel amp and a McIntosh MC404M running my 3 way scan revelators and have two of the channels off the MC404M bridged running my sub and love both amps. Super high quality amps but I'd say it would be hard to beat the sinfoni for the best sound. Another amp that I'm looking at getting to go in my truck because of a better fit is a Celestra 475 4 channel if I can find one for a good price. I've heard good things about them and they're specs are about as good as it gets...hope that info helps...


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## asota (Feb 7, 2011)

Would be a no brainier for me I would get the Tru To3-4 150 currently in classifieds


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## St. Dark (Mar 19, 2008)

As you noted, you'll need 6ch of power.

You've got the 'topes...why not use a th due and a th quattro?


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## mastero (May 11, 2011)

thanks 

the th due and a th quattro ?? i wish 
i need to Double the budget : )

i will use the bit 1 so i need 6ch 

50RMS*4 - and 100-120RMS*2
for the 3 way 

more ideas ?

thanks


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## adhumston (Mar 1, 2009)

Sinfoni, Arc SE, TRU, Audison, Helix, Brax, Mosconi.... Hard to go wrong with any of them really.


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## pika_ (Feb 18, 2007)

got the be7 active like you running on a DLS A7 + DLS A2 + DLS A1 (2x200 for woofers, 2x85 for midrange and 2x45 for tweeters)

more than happy


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## 226z (Jan 13, 2009)

Hell, just call the guys who just called me claiming I owe ATT over $800 for cancellation of services on a contract that ran out....lol Anyone heard that scam yet? They prob got the money to budget anything by now...lol


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

* My first choice for the Utopia Be sets would be Sinfoni - get 1 Grave for the Midbasses and 1 Presto Ad Lib for the Midranges and Tweeters 
* Second best choice with your budget would be Helix - get 2 x A4 Competition, 1 bridged on the Midbasses and 1 for the Midranges and Tweeters 
* Last but not least best bang for the buck would be DLS - get 2 x A5 (3 channels amp), 1 for the Left side and 1 for the Right side ; sub channels on the midbasses are good up to 250Hz. You'll save some money and have a dual mono configuration 

Kelvin


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## SQ Man (Nov 27, 2008)

Personally, I'm running my No.7 Be's fully active as well.
Mid-bass's are powered by a Focal FP 2.150 & the Mid-ranges & Be Tweeters are powered by a Focal FP 4.75.
Sub is a Focal 27Kx powered by a Focal FP 1.800.
Source & active processing is handled by the Alpine DVi-9990R/PXi-H990 head unit/multimedia processor setup.
I have no complaints about the sound of this setup at all (apart from the big hole where my bank balance used to be).


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## mastero (May 11, 2011)

thanks 

what about the celestra RA ?

2.200 midbass
4.75 Midranges and Tweeters


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mastero said:


> thanks
> 
> what about the celestra RA ?
> 
> ...


Not much info on those but from what I've read, they are pretty quiet amps (S/N). Being italian, I can only assume that they tend to have an added warmth to their sound. 

Kelvin


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## dave-t (Jun 10, 2011)

I would not recommend getting Focal amps. I just sold both of mine. I had a Duel Monitor and 1.800LE. Way overpriced for what they are. Had them hooked up to Focal Utopia Be #6(crossblock), AudioControl DQL8 and JL 8" sub in a Porsche Cayman. I am ordering within the next couple weeks a Tru Technology polished stage IV B6-S with line conditioners on all channels with Kimber cable. Focal is a speaker company not an amp company.

dave-t


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

I would suggest staying away from Multi-Channel Amps and find some Class A/B Mono-blocks. This will keep any chance of Cross Talk getting in the way of those Be's shinning.


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## viper_x (May 11, 2011)

I use 2 Helix Precision P400 for my Micro Precision speakers. Two very good amplifiers and not so pricy.


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## pbasil1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Brax, Audison, Zapco, And Genesis would all have great amps to pair with those speakers.


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## Heath (May 3, 2009)

I have become a fan of tru amps. I was previously running mosconi and recently switch to tru on my front stage. I am running a hertz mlk 3 way front stage. I have a tru475 bridged on the ml1600 mid bass, a tru4100 runnung my ml700 mids and ml28 tweeters. All of this running though a bit one and a tru 8is line conditioner. N
It is the best i have gotten my system to sound to date. My only advice is be careful when usimg the 8is as tuning becomes somewhat difficult.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

I've heard Audison Amps mentioned in this thread, but the Amp Audison was recommending for the Focal Be's was the VRx line with the Class A Module.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> I've heard Audison Amps mentioned in this thread, but the Amp Audison was recommending for the Focal Be's was the VRx line with the Class A Module.


You can have the new release Thesis mono, 2 and 4 channels now. 
The stereo and multichannel amps have a Class A bias setting - no need to buy modules anymore  

Kelvin


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> You can have the new release Thesis mono, 2 and 4 channels now.
> The stereo and multichannel amps have a Class A bias setting - no need to buy modules anymore
> 
> Kelvin


I couldn't afford the VRx's  I don't even want to get into how much the Thesis line would set me back.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

about 7000 car washes....looks like you have already been saving for these


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

I would suggest the cheapest amps you can find that fit your space and power requirements and don't look banged up. You wont notice a difference and neither will anyone else.

[flamewar]


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BigRed said:


> about 7000 car washes....looks like you have already been saving for these


Keeps the hood rats out!


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

michaelsil1 said:


> Keeps the hood rats out!


i have 2 sets and am using the focal fp dual monitors one on each set,but i recommend a heavy sub and amp set up cause the vocals are very overpowering


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

I have a very good shape audison vrx4.300 but id do the zapco c2k 4.0 and 2.0
That will give you all the clean power you could ever want. I dropped the vrx for the c2k and they are fantastic!! 
I am a dealer for them too and in your budget you could get both those new
let me know if you want me to hook you up


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

actually if you can get me a good deal on a 14k stetsom i think im leaning that way


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## NCQ45 (Jul 11, 2009)

Just finished an install for a friend with BE's running active. Used Mosconi AS100.4 amps. The system sounds incredible. I would recommend them to anyone.


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## gus1111 (Apr 17, 2009)

I would personally go with amps that are on the warm side of neutral with focal speakers! Audison, Celestra, Sinfoni. Tru are neutral. Brax I would avoid. It wouldn't be the best match(they are both detail freaks, analytical)...
Synergy is very very important when it comes to ultimate listening pleasure...


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

I agree with those mosconis cant go wrong with those!
To be honest I dont see you being upset with Zapco, Mosconi, Audison VRX, Thesis, Sinfoni, Tru tech exc.
Just have to pick what appeals to you. 
You have a great set of speakers! i would def go active though..
good luck
Also I know of a guy selling some Audison Thesis amps that are close to your price range, If I had the cash those amps would be tough to pass up..


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

I am going to run Matt R modded PPI PC series on mine pre processed by Matt R H701 processor and 7996 HU. Man you have to let us know how that masconi sounds. I didn't care for the DC series Zaps, but we will see what I can do with the new setup.


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

i have a Mcintosh MC4000M 4x100,2x300 but it isnt going to be cheap,but you did say your budget was 2500


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

2500 can get you a good modded processor


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

I definitely will let you know how the mOsconis sound, should hear them soon.
For anyone interested I have a new zapco c2k 4.0 I'm selling for below dealer cost and a used c2k 2.0, I'm letting them go for cheap!
Keep us posted on the utopia be's


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

And c2k is a big jump from dc ref, I have owned the Ppi art, pc and dcx and prefer the c2k over all those. And I am a huge Ppi art fan so that's saying a lot, if you eve need help with those pc amps let me know I have a buddy who worked at Ppi back then and knows them in and out to fix


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

3X Genesis Dual Mono, or contact Grant at Audiowave and have a custom amp built: Holding Page - Audio Wave
[email protected]


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

Patrick is the owner of Zuki amps and he also can build you an amazing amp at a very affordable price,.He is extremely intelligent,just wish i could understand half of what he tells me.He can be contacted at h8nglydeh0me


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!

To those of you who have issues with Focal branded amps, I understand. The past amplifiers were not "high-end" in sound. That has changed in my opinion. The FPS amplifiers are pretty darn good! All of the 2 or 4 channel amps area Class AB, Dual Mono-block designs, very high quality parts throughout,( Panasonic 105Degree C caps in the power supply for an example), Bi-Polar output devices, etc...... When you add the external capacitor banks to the amplifiers, you get something that is very close to high end home audio. In fact, these amps were based on the designs of KRELL and Halcro amplifiers. They are not small nor should they be. They are quite neutral and even have the ability to completely by-pass the entire pre-amp section!! 

To give my personal opinion on the question on amps for the Be No. 7 set I would just say this. Get the best class AB amplifiers you can afford. There are a lot of great amps being tossed around on this topic. Listen to as many of them as you can, take a look at your vehicle and see what will fit where, and go with it!!

The Mosconi amps are outstanding in build quality and there very neutral in sound and have power out the ass!! Hand built in Italy and they are about as reliable as I have seen in car audio today! We at Orca have had 1 or 2 amps come back in over two years for a factory defect. That is it!! Amazing!!!

If you have any questions or need help in setting up your active system for the No.7 kit, please email me at [email protected] and I will do my best to help!!

Nick Wingate Jr.
National Training Coordinator
Focal/Mosconi/Illusion Audio America


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

to date i have invested $12000.00 on these damn Utopias alone trying to get them to sound good and my car is still sitting in Toronto at the shop"since labour day"and it still isnt right,i wish i had more dollars than the hairs ive pulled out of my head


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## mr sideways (Nov 9, 2011)

I have heard the Focal BE's running off a pair of sinfoni amps and the sound was amazing!


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

Im so fustrated i could scream,my crossblock has been replaced with an active setup of a alpine pdx 4 150 to run the mids and tweeters as well as a critical mass 9volt line driver and now my utopia woofers have been replaced with a set of 6.5"jl subs in the front doors and there still trying to seal the fiberglassed doors cause they still hear air pockets,by the time they are finished the only part of my Utopias are going to be the mids and tweeters.Lets see my$2000crossblock replaced by a $400Alpine and my expensive woofers replaced with $120 jl subs,Life cant get any better im just waiting for the next great suggestion"lets remove the$3000 focal dual monitor and replace it with a nice pyramid amp,sorry no offence to anyone im just totally fustrated


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

They need to fix you install, the problem is not with the focal drivers..


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## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

stetsomman, 

What exactly is it about the sound that you are not happy with?

Have you got a decent processor? (with TA, 1/3 octave EQ, etc)

Who is doing the sound tuning? Have they got proper equipment? (RTA/SPL Meter, etc)

Why did they take the woofers out?


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

First of all the doors were custom fiberglassed and it sounded very hollow,like someone was holding a speaker in their hand with zero bass and the installer told me he didnt have a laptop with windows to tune the Focal digital monitor amp.I took the car to number one sound in Toronto but after tuning it still sounded hollow so he disconnected the crossblock and ran an active setup using the alpine PDX 4 150 and a Critical Mass ULX9V to run the mids and highs_nowthey sound great but still lacked bass,sohe replaced the Utopia woofers and installed a set of Jl 6.5 inch subs.It still sounds unusual but i never heard it but ill take his word.I even ended up replacing the deck with a Mcintosh.He has determined the doors are not sealed properlyand is now in the process of completly resealing my doors.I,ll tell you ive started my next build and im keeping it very simple,no custom doors a Mcintosh MC400M,2 MS468 subwoofers,MSS471 component set,and call it a day,if any one has a set of the speakers or a setof 6.5 Mcintosh components let meknow,thanks you guys have all been so supportive of me


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!

So, let me get this straight. The shop that is doing your install has removed the crossblock and the 6W3 bass driver of the No.7 kit. And you have replaced these with a full range class D amp and a 6.5" subwoofer in the door that will need an enclosure. OK. That will probably not sound very good. Here is why.

The 6W3 bass driver is designed to work with the 3W of the Be. kit. It is designed to play in the door of a car without an enclosure. It wants to see the door. The midrange will play down to around 250 hz and that is it! The bass driver takes over from there. The 6W3 is timbre matched to the 3W and will work flawlessly with the 3W if your install staff KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THE CROSSBLOCK!!!!! From what you have been describing they don't!

I really do not recommend you use a full range class D amplifier on the Be.'s. They are extremely revealing and you will hear what most people describe as a harshness or being strident and nasty sounding! That is due to a number of factors all due to the digital switching and the power supply of the amps and I don't want to get into a pissing match with the crowd that says there is no difference in amps. 

So, I would recommend this. Have your shop take a really good class AB amp and put it into the system mix. Then, I would ask them to re-install the 6W3 back into your system. Add the Crossblock into the system and then have them call me!!!!!!! If you will PM me I will be more than happy to give you my cell number and they can call me and I will walk them through the setup of the crossblock. They will need an RTA to get started so if they dont, they need to get one or download one. Any shop worth a damn has one anyway. There are a number of factors that could be keeping this system from performing to its potential, but I can assure you it is not the drivers or the crossblock!

Nick


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

Nick im just going to let them finish at this point cause i just need my car back its been there since labour day.Im going to keep my Utopia parts "all of them"and maybe use it with my Mcintosh Mc4000m on my next build,but NO CUSTOM DOORS or if by chance it sounds half decent,ill sell you my crossblock and 6w3s


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

stetsomman said:


> Nick im just going to let them finish at this point cause i just need my car back its been there since labour day.Im going to keep my Utopia parts "all of them"and maybe use it with my Mcintosh Mc4000m on my next build,but NO CUSTOM DOORS or if by chance it sounds half decent,ill sell you my crossblock and 6w3s


Nick doesn't need your Crossblock he works for Focal.


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

Sorry,but where the hell were the focal reps when i dumped my focal Digital Monitor and Utopia number 7s with the crossblock and ive got 2 of these damn Monitors installed in my trunk cause the other one is running a set of KRX165s and a Focal 2 150 driving a set of 6x9s in the rear deck and understand i appreciate your help im just pissed with the first installer i just figured the reps dont give a crap-i couldnt understand when a guy dumps thousands and isnt pleased hes told to take it somewhere else or bting him in a laptop with windows xp and he,ll try to tune it properly


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Patience and education is key to getting good sound. Just because you spent big dollars and had it thrown in the car doesn't mean it will sound good. 


I've spent years learning and now my car does sound really good, but like all of us I want it to sound better.


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

Thats true my friend when i read the reviews on the utopia number 7 the one guy said it took him a year and a half to get it setup properly but it is the most amazing sound he ever heard,so someday ill get that same feeling im sure.Thanks


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Given that you are in Canada all I can tell you is that I am very sorry that someone from B&B wasn't involved with this situation. B&B is the distributor in Canada for Focal. If you would like, I can contact them and get them involved with your situation. I certainly do not want you to be " unsatisfied" with the sound of the Be.'s. Again, i am offering my services to help you in anyway that I can to help resolve your situation. Don't accept your system being mediocre!! You spent the money and the time to have an outstanding system! I do suggest you step back for a moment and lets see if we cannot get your system where you expect it to be! 

Nick


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

As to why someone takes over a year to get their system dialed in is pretty simple. In some installs that I have encountered with the Be.s, I have been told that it can take up to 300 hours for playing time before they are completely broken in. Now, I do know that it will take every Focal speaker 100 hours of playing time before they are " Broken in". My Rep in AZ. has two No.6 kits in his Acura and it took over a year before he was happy with them!!


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

Nick you have been so helpful but now i have to be completly honest cause i didnt want to get into too much depth here.I really have 2 sets of KRX165x3,a set of Utopia number 7 with the crossblock and an extra 3inch Utopia in the fronts so 2 sets of mids,a set of 6x9 focals in the rear deck,2 focal dual monitors and a focal 2x150,thats my SQ setup inside the car.In the trunk i have a modified Stetsom 7K D pushing out about 8,000watts using a modified Ohio altenator pushing 330amps driving a set of Ground Zero 12"Neptune subs"with a total of 5 Kinetiks and a 20farad cap.The deck is a Double Din Mcintosh,see i wanted the ultimate SQ setup inside with a Killer SPL setup in the back,so it really is a complicated installand maybe i went overboard and expected too much


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

The car is in Toronto at the best installer in the area Number-One-Sound 416-532-6134 feel free to contact him Nick cause i think hes as fustrated as me


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## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

OK, I'm seeing a number of potential problems here...

Unless I'm mistaken, McIntosh head decks have virtually no processing whatsoever. Trying to run an active set up without a decent eq and time alignment sounds like absolute madness to me. I think you have the wrong deck for an active setup - you need a deck like a P99 or need to use an external processor - MS8, bit one etc.

Having no TA may be a good part of the reason you felt you had no bass from your components. If you do not compensate for the different distances from your ears to each of your speakers, the bass from your components will be cancelled out by the bass from your sub and rear fill.

Did you say you have 2 sets of 3" mids installed on each side? This would be very hard to set up well in a car - you'd either need to get the distance of each mid driver to your ears exactly equal or you'd need to compensate for the difference using time alignment or you'll have more phase cancellation problems (comb filtering), doing horrible things to your frequency response and smearing your sound. 

I also suggest you make sure the rear fill is turned off until you've got the front stage sorted out - a lot of SQ guys don't even use rear fill as they feel it negatively impacts on the front stage. Get the front sorted first, then fade in the rear fill to see if you think it helps or not.

It looks to me like you've been getting some bad advice and spending quite a bit of time and money in the wrong places. The good news is I think you've got some of it right!

These three things (in no particular order) indisputably make a very large difference to your sound:


Speakers - You've got some great speakers, but Focal BE are widely regarded as needing to be tuned very well to sound good. Some people like them, some people don't, but I believe appropriate tuning would probably make them very good to most people.
Processing - This will help you tune your great speakers to make the sound how you want them to - correct distance/phase problems, flatten your frequency response and then tailor it to a response curve that sounds good to your ears. Some people like to get by with very limited processing, but this requires extremely critical driver selection and install skills - and that you like the natural frequency response of the selected drivers.
Install - I don't know what your install looks like, but it sounds like your installer has been giving you a lot of bad advice, so I'd be concerned about what has been done

Assuming you are not using absolute crap gear, these things make *much* less audible impact on your sound than the three things above:


The brand of your amplifiers (assuming they put out sufficient clean power and have either a flat frequency response or you have processing in your system somewhere)
The brand of your head deck (on the assumption you have processing in your system somewhere)
Wiring (assuming it's not way undersized)
Smoothing capacitors 

PLEASE DON'T START ARGUING THESE HERE!!!!! THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER THREADS FOR THIS!!!!!

I have created two distinct lists here - the indisputable and the disputable. I think no one will dispute the things on the first list make a large difference to your sound (be they positive or negative effects). The second list, people have argued over for hundreds of pages on this forum and others. (once again, please don't start here!)

I suggest you focus your money and effort on the first list. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't have the best of the best of anything on the second list, just in terms of making audible differnces and getting your sound right, start with the things that make the biggest difference. 

I hope I've been of some help to you (and others). All the best for the rest of your install!


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

dont the dual monitors have built in processors


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!

'Yes the DM's so have built in Processors, but given what your list of equipment is and how you are going to use it, I doubt seriously if they will help you solve all of your problems you are going to run into with the system you are trying to put together.

The gentlemen who posted above is absolutely correct in that if you use that many drivers in your car you will never get the phase(ing) to be correct!! You will have way to many problems with comb filtering and standing waves at different frequencies to make this work.

May I make a suggestion? If your looking for extreme dynamics and the ability to play LOUD and CLEAN, then I would take the KRX3's and place one set up front and one in the rear of the car and go with it!!! The KR line of speakers are designed with that in mind!! They like power!! 150 watts per channel is what they like! The Be.'s are very revealing and are for the discriminating audiophile. They can play loud, but if you like dynamics and club music, I wouldn't recommend them for you. Now, having said that, there is something you should know. The PDX will not play the KRX3's, it will go into protection immediately upon being turned on. Reason being is the KRX3's have an impedance of .8 ohms at around 150HZ when you use the passive networks supplied. You will need to use and very good class AB amp with a stable power supply to use those speakers. You can Bi-amp them and it will help, but the class D amps will not play them that way either! If you were to use a bigger 4 channel amp, say 150 watts X 4 or so on the front and rear speaker systems and tune them accordingly and use the sub and amp you already have, your system should perform very well and be both musical and very dynamic and loud!!!

Thats my suggestion for you sir!!! Sell the Be's and help pay for the new amps and the install!!!

Nick


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

Mitsu1grn said:


> Greetings!!
> 
> 'Yes the DM's so have built in Processors, but given what your list of equipment is and how you are going to use it, I doubt seriously if they will help you solve all of your problems you are going to run into with the system you are trying to put together.
> 
> ...


I 2nd this all the way. I think that is the exact setup your looking for. sell your BE's or use them in another install (your simpler) install, but keep the whole set together. Then you will have your loud car that sounds good doing it, and a pure sq install that still gets loud and sounds good doing it.


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## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

stetsomman said:


> dont the dual monitors have built in processors


Yes they do, but the PDX definitely doesn't. 

Two dual monitors only gives you 4 channels of processing, so you'd need to use the crossblocks if you are using these to drive a 3 way up front. With all the speakers you've listed, that still leaves 16 other drivers with no processing. 

You've simply got too many speakers in your car to sound good - I can't even imagine where you've put the two sets of KRX3 as well as your Be and 6x9s.
6x9s are good for rear fill and people with no subs. One set of speakers will be fine for rear fill (if any!). In the front you should have just one set of 3 way components. 

If you've go multiple woofers in one door cavity (eg Be and KRX), 
the bass from one woofer may be cancelled by its backwave bleeding through the others.

I hate to think how the extra 3" mids were wired in when you were using the crossblocks, which are probably designed to run one of each driver. In parallel would make the mids too loud, in series would make the mids too quiet.


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## stetsomman (Jun 16, 2011)

All you people have offered excellent advice and i wished i lived in the States cause you Americans are way ahead of the Canadians in the car audio scene.Seems all Canadians know of is Jl,Kicker,Rockford etc and when you mention DD,Stetsom,Mcintosh,Zuki,Zapco all you get are blank looks.Im not speaking on behalf of all Canadians but the greater majority and that includes audio shops,think about it only 1 shop sells DD and thats in Alberta and in Toronto only 2 places even stock Mcintosh.Im so glad to have all you smart people helping me with suggestions cause im one of the few that had the balls to venture south of the boarder and buy the stuff Americans are buying and if any of you guys are currently unemployed im sure there is a lot of oppertunity in Canada to open up shops and get experienced installers up here.Ill be your first customer,thanks guys!


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