# Install log for 2006 STI



## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

The STI is a horrible car to retrofit a stereo in. It’s not only very loud inside, the door clearances are very narrow, which also reduces the choices of drivers. The stock tweeter locations are high on the doors, just forward of the door handle. The A pillars and kick panels are not deeply recessed and make for difficult mounting locations. It’s probably just was well since first and foremost the car is intended for performance. In fact the first US model didn’t even include a stereo.

I knew before I did anything to the stereo, I’d be doing a lot of sound deadening. The project, like so many, started with Rick. Interestingly, I didn’t even know about this forum before I met Rick. I was shopping for deadening material and happened to get lucky. Rick gave me some tips and recommended I look into going active and get inexpressive drivers instead of the boxed set of Boston’s I had my eye on. 

Last winter I installed a roll of BTX and 8 yards Ensolite. I used Rick’s standard lightweight instructions which included the outer and inner skin of the front doors, inner skin of the rear doors, parcel shelf and back area behind the rear seat. Ensolite was also added on top of the BTX on the outer skin of the front doors. 

I also added some BTX around the rear wells, as well as some extra resonate areas in the trunk. I didn’t plan on using a sub in the trunk so I mostly wanted to seal it off, and avoid adding to much weight in the form of BTX to the trunk area. Lots of noise comes from the rear of the car, which I later found originates from the trunk vents in the lower rear corners of the trunk area. The noise travels through the massive holes in the parcel shelf that also serves as vent hole for the air to get into the trunk. I didn’t want to close those off so I created an Ensolite coated channel out of BTX, which allows the vent holes to still work, but minimizes the sound transfer from the trunk. This was Rick’s idea. Sorry I got busy on this project and forgot to take pictures along the way.

The effects of the Ensolite and BTX were pretty profound. It not only made the car much more tolerable on longer drives, but also made a huge difference in how the stock radio and speakers sounded. Not only I could I hear them better, the midbass was dramatically improved. I won’t say that I contemplated keeping the stock setup, but I did start listing to music again, instead of sticking to talk radio.

With the deadening out of the way, it was time to think about the stereo plan again. I started the planning with something fairly simple and inexpensive in mind. The car is just not conducive to good audio, and the character of the car would be somewhat spoiled with a massive and weighty audio system. Plus I didn’t want to worry about losing a bunch expensive equipment to a break in. However, my beloved B&W home speakers have been relegated to home theater duty, and my dreams of building a dedicated listening room just haven’t panned out. The headphones (with dedicated amp) are nice. Really nice in fact. But they only go so far, and don’t hit like good sub. So the “what if” scenarios creep in and the dreaming begins. Instead of “what can I get away with” I moved to more a position of “what is possible?” 

After much reading, and often re-reading the same threads I came up with a rough plan that included a two active setup. To save space, complexity and weight all processing would be done in the hu. Rick ha s made an underseat sub for the Impreza and I will go that route if one becomes available again. If not, then I’ll either build one, or go with something in the trunk. The main amp would be one I already had on hand, an Adcom 4303. I bought the amp over 15 years ago from Magnolia Hi-Fi in Bellevue, Wa. It’s hard to believe I can still find a use for it. But it’s built well, sounds great and sounds much louder than its measly rating of 30 watts per channel. 

For the sub amp I went with the Memphis 500.1. it’s a D class, that’s good down to 1 ohm. I didn’t put a lot of thought or research into this one and hope I got it right. The main reason I selected this was that it was advertised as being 2” tall on a particual vendor’s site. I was going to shoe horn it into a very tight spot in the trunk and it was the only amp at this wattage ratting that was even close. As it turns out the amp is closer to 2 and ¾ tall which made a bit mad when I opened the box. But fourtunatel y it still fits in the planned location so, it all turned out ok in the end. The other reason I choose this amp was it didn’t show up in the “what product won’t you run” thread 

For the HU I choose the Eclipse CD7100 because of the currently available new headunits its only one of two whose crossovers can be configured for bandpass on the midbass. The other unit being the Pioneer DEH-P880prs. Expect an Alpine offering, later this summer. I really liked the Pioneer but the Eclipse beat out Pioneer because the USB connection is directly to the headunit. The Pioneer uses an external adapter that decodes the MP3s, and sends them in analog form to the HU, where they are digitized again for processing then decoded for final output to the amp. I planned on running a hardrive in the glove box and was hoping to avoid hauling around any CDs. Decent sound USB support is a must. Compressed audio is already SQ challenged and adding another A/D stage is not going to help. 

The drivers would be the Lotus Seas RW165/1 and RT27T. These drivers were selected not only for their excellent sound quality, but also because the midbass was one of the few higher end drivers that would fit in the doors. The tweeters are too big to fit the stock location, a problem I have yet to solve. I knew that going in and figured it’d be part of phase II of the project. 



*Checking for amp location and vent blockage issues*
I really wanted to avoid an amp rack in the trunk. In fact, I’m trying as much as possible to keep the OEM look in the cabin and not interfere with the trunk space. If it can’t be done, then I’ll compromise. But I’ll cross that bridge after trying hard to keep the install as clean as possible. With that in mind, I went scouting for amp locations. There’s quite a bit of room under both seats. But the passenger side is reserved for Ricks’ sub so the main amp with have to go under the driver’s seat. Like so many cars, there are a few air vents that will blow directly into the amp. I’ve read many STI and Impreza owners blow this off and say just let the vents hit the amp. Personally I think if heat was not a concern for the Adcom, the AMP wouldn’t come with a fan on the top case. Maybe hot air blowing on a PDX won’t cause a problem, but we aren’t about “getting by here” now are we? Let’s “see what’s possible”.











*Location for sub amp*
This location is in the trunk (drivers side) behind the trim panel. This the stock location for the jack which has been repositioned to the spare tire area. I added bits of rubber tube to the old jack mount, which serve as “rests” for the sub amp. These also got a filled with silicone to secure them to the jack mount. The black box on the lower left is the trunk vent I mentioned earlier. This has little rubber flaps which open when there’s air pressure. The open road is just on the other side of these which is where a lot of our road noise comes from. To combat this, I lined the inside of the covering trim piece with Ensolite. With all the work on the parcel shelf it’s already pretty quiet back there. But Ensolite doesn’t weigh much, so why not? By the way, when the car is on, the vent fan is always running. Keeps air flowing through the cabin. The flowing air goes through the trunk, over the top of the trim piece right past the amp to the trunk vent. This should help the amp keep cool. 












*Plastic Baffles for the RW165/1*
Ok, so I have confession. I may be a DIY’r but I hate to work with wood. I’ve never gotten good at it and though I have jigsaw, I don’t own a hole cutter. When I came to speaker baffles, all the swelling I’ve seen had me a bit put off. Yes, yes, sealing will help. A while back I was browsing an Impreza forum and noticed one of the suspension vendors (Kartboy) had used his CNC machine on some sheets of plastic to create Impreza specific baffles. I liked the idea of using plastic instead of wood. Not to mention that’s one less skill I’d need ramp up just to get the speakers in. I got 2 sets, and stacked them. Each baffle is half an inch. Stacked the baffle sits at 1 inch giving just enough clearance for the not so deep RW165/1s. The inside of the door car still needs some minor modification, but it’s nothing you can see from the outside of the card.

I opted for clear silicone caulk to mount the baffles to the door. In the pic below you can also see the notch at the bottom of the hole that needed to be cut out so the RW165/1’s leads would clear the door. 











*I hope I can clean up this mess!*
When your dash looks like this, going on three days, the doubts start to creep in. My neighbor came by at about this time and was a bit shocked at what I had done to my new car. 









*Amp wiring starting to come together*
I can’t believe how long it took to get this far. How can it be to pull a couple wires?









*Amp installed*
I was glad to get this done. The wires on the left are for the airbags in seat. The little black pieces of fabric looking things on the amp are my answer to the vent issue. I made some small bibs out of Ensolite, wrapped around the vent head and secured with a tie-rap. Rick once told me that Ensolite is also a heat insulator. Its also very flexible can be formed easily. 









*Ensolite bibs for heater vents*
Here’s a close up of the “vent bibs”









*Test fitment and sound check for the RW165/1*
Once the amp and HU were all hooked up, I temporarily installed the midbasses to for final fitment check before caulking them in. While in, I gave them a listen. By this time in the install my head cold had made its way to my ears. Between that, the door card being off, and the drivers being green, it sounded really bad. Thankfully things have been slowing improving on all fronts. After the test, the drivers were removed and the final coat of BTW was put on the inner door skin, as was around and behind the baffle.









*Temporary tweeter install*
Here’s where the tweeter ended up, for the time being. This is the stock location which is really way to small for this tweeter, so they’ll be moved. I’m debating between the A pillars and the kicks. Recommendations appreciated.









*Headunit with single DIN pocket from Subaru Forester*
Here’s the HU. The stock HU is a double DIN, so when switching to single din, a pocket needs to be added. Another Subbie, the Forester becomes the donor car. Unfortunately the Forester DIN pocket doesn’t fit in the Impreza bracket, so modification to both brackets and the DIN pocket are required. Fitment is more trial and error. Mine ended up a little further out than it should and it’s not completely flush with the dash trim. It’s not huge deal, but since the CD7100s face plate hits it when you open it to insert a CD, I’ll redo it. I wanted to recess the CD7100 further so it’s flush with the dash trim. But since the faceplate needs a lot of clearance to be opened, that won’t be possible. Not a huge deal, it still looks pretty good.

I’m not wild about the “RED” color scheme, but since the gauges are also red, and matches nicely, it achieves the OEM look I’m going for. Maybe I’ll get tired of it and go back to blue and green, which looks pretty good, albeit a bit “bling bling”.









*Headunit blending in with the dash illumination*
See what I mean? The red comes across very OEM.









*Wider view of interior*
Here’s the wider view of the interior. The CD7100 with Forester DIN pocket blends in better than I expected. Since all the processing is done at the HU, there’s nothing else to see.









*Sirius*
I didn’t get a picture, but I also got the Sirius direct connect box for the Eclipse. The box was bigger than I expected. Even though it’s actually small, when trying to find a place to hide it I ended up having fewer options than I expected. I ended up mount it behind the glove box. I put the antenna in the middle of the parcel shelf, with the metal of the rear deck serving as a grounding plane. So far reception is pretty good. I do get occasional dropouts going under trees. As expected the SQ is pretty compressed. The variety is nice to have, along with the talk and old TV shows. If I want SQ, I’ve got a 40gb hardrive in the glove box loaded with MP3s. I just wanted to see what the fuss is about and I might not maintain my subscription, primarily because of the SQ issues. I’ll give it a while and see if how I feel.

*USB Hardrive*
I’ve become spoiled by my Carbon Rio, which is mere 4gb Mp3 player. But it’s plenty big for most of the music I listen to regularly. When selecting a new HU, I wanted the Carbon’s functionality natively. Unfortunately the car market has left the mass storage solutions up to Apple and focus on IPOD adapters. Personally I hate hauling things in and out of the car. The less complicated it is to simply drive somewhere and arrive, the better. I don’t want to have to worry about either unplugging an expensive device, or risk having it stolen. Portable USB hardrives and thumbdrives are getting cheaper and bigger. I have few older smaller ones lying around that I don’t regularly use. 

At this point in history most hu manufactures only offer the most crude navigation of USB drives. Kenwood being the one exception. Eclipse has got to have the worst navigation I’ve ever seen. It doesn’t recognize long file names on the USB even though it does when read from a CD-R. That means that you are browsing folder using their 8.3 filenames which is usually the first 6 characters of the long name, a tilde and a number. Also it only lists folders than contain files, so you can’t group albums by artist. You have to scroll through every album, reading its short name to get to the one you want. Try that with the a couple hundred albums. Not pretty. I’ve been able to work around it by renaming all my directories on the USB drive to something that makes sense, four letters for the artist and four for the album. Also the “random-all” aka shuffle works really well if you just get tired of it want to go the endless juke box route. Just keep hitting next until you find something you like. 

Eclipse says it supports WMA and MP3. WMA support is a very weak. Sure it plays them but it constantly stutters and sounds like it’s in mono. MP3s play fine. My collection is already in WMA/192 because that’s what sounded best on the Carbon. But I’ve been meaning to re-encode using MP3/320 anyway, so it’s a good excuse to get on it. I do wish it Eclipse had included a lossless format. I’ve got the space.


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## STI<>GTO (Aug 8, 2005)

Lookin' good.


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

Looks good, I've got a 2002 WRX. You may have come across my thread(s) here or on NASIOC about the hard drive. It's too bad Kenwood doesn't offer a deck with the kind of processing you were looking for because their system for USB MP3s is top notch. I'm still really enjoying my setup day in and day out and I wouldn't trade it for the world. 

As a blessing in disguise, my KDC-X590 died. It still works but the display is shot. After doing research again I decided to just get the KDC-X591. (Same unit, a year newer). To my suprise, IT SUPPORTS .WAV!! I'm so excited now because with 250 GB I have plenty of space, and to have a HDD full of .wav to listen to... welll..... it's going to be just great!

Good luck with the install.


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## fastev (May 28, 2007)

I've got an '07 WRX and I'm in the process of making some tweeter mounting cups in the sail panels. My Focal tweeters are also quite large, and I tried temporarily mounting them in the stock location, but wasn't happy with the sound. I bought a new set of sail panels from Subaru for $25, and just yesterday finished cutting the holes in them to get the cups aimed where I want them. This week I am going to pick up some grill cloth and resin, and I'll go to town. i'd be happy to get you some pictures if you are interested.


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

Nice car. Nice equipment.


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Greg,
Nice job, thanks for posting the thread! More commentary to follow later, but a couple of words to a fellow STI install-er:
- Interesting idea on the ensolite foam "channel" you were describing placed on the rear parcel shelf. I'd love a more detailed description on that if possible.  Sounds like something perhaps worth doing on my STI install.
- Regarding this:








I'd suggest disconnecting the A/C control harnesses and tube to get it out of the way. Likewise, just unscrew the shift knob, undo the boot's buttons, and take the out of the way next time. Then, take blue painters tape and tape around the opening, because it's easy to get the dash scratched up if you don't! (I know from experience)
- I thought the air ducts over the amp were an interesting idea and I suppose can't hurt! 
- Yeah, those tweeters ain't gonna fit there without some major metal cutting.  Could you glass or fabricate something on your door sail panels? If you want your tweeters up high, that may be a good compromise. Otherwise, you'll be cutting up your kicks to get them to work down there...

Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!


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## 97teg (Sep 27, 2006)

Sweet. Im looking to get into an 05 sti soon. Looks like Im in for some fun on the install.


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## Robert (Jul 23, 2006)

Great work, I hated those rcas even though they are cheap. I am much more happier with Krystal Kables.


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## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

02bluesuperroo said:


> Looks good, I've got a 2002 WRX. You may have come across my thread(s) here or on NASIOC about the hard drive. It's too bad Kenwood doesn't offer a deck with the kind of processing you were looking for because their system for USB MP3s is top notch.


I think I’ve read your threads a couple times over and they gave me the insprision to go with a drive in the glovebox. Yes, Kenwood found the right solution for USB, build the database on the PC. Its too much for the HU and there’s no reason it needs to done there since you always load it on the PC. The Eclipse MP3 codec sounds pretty good but their navigation is horrible. I’m also noticing the hardrive is having trouble reading when I have a sustained bumpy road. I’m thinking of going with a thumb drive, but I’ll wait to get my new springs in. The current springs are way too stiff for my needs.

How are those sail panels coming? I was thinking about going that route, but wanted to wait and see how yours turned out. The 27s are pretty big and I’m not sure they’d fit there terribly well.



fastev said:


> i'd be happy to get you some pictures if you are interested.


 That’d be great. Do you have an install log?




shinjohn said:


> - Yeah, those tweeters ain't gonna fit there without some major metal cutting.  Could you glass or fabricate something on your door sail panels? If you want your tweeters up high, that may be a good compromise. Otherwise, you'll be cutting up your kicks to get them to work down there...


I was thinking of putting them on the A-pillars or down on the kicks. Either way, I’ll need to build a baffle of some kind. I was thinking of a basic pvc tube cut at an angle for the kicks. For the A pillars I think I’d need to do some glass work. I’ve never played with glass and haven’t decided I want start. With the A pillars I’ve got reflections off the dash and windshield. With the kicks, on the driver’s side there’s not an unobstructed path to the driver’s ear. The steering wheel gets in the way.




shinjohn said:


> - Interesting idea on the ensolite foam "channel" you were describing placed on the rear parcel shelf. I'd love a more detailed description on that if possible.


Sure. This was Rick’s idea, although I take credit for the implementation. Below are the large holes I mentioned. To cover them I cut a squarish piece of BTX a couple inches larger than the hole. Next I cut a piece of Ensolite about the size of the hole. Rounded on one end and squared off on the other end. The ensolite was laid on top of the sticky side of the BTX, with a couple inches of BTX left around the edges on three sides. 

The assembly was formed in a cup then stuck to the underside of the shelf. The forward most part was left open. The BTX is soft and could collapse if pressed. So far it seems to be up holding fine. If I had to do it over, I’d put a metal support in it to help keep it expanded.


Trunk Channels
















Here you can see the profile of the channels. Also note back side of the seat is covered with Ensolite. The stock piece is thin plastic. On the interior side I coated it with BTX. On the trunk side I put and oversized piece of ensolite then trimmed the edges once it was installed. 










*More work from Last weekend*
I finished up the wiring for the sub and sub amp this weekend. When installing the Stinger grounding lug, it snapped with very little force, I was not impressed. I replaced it with this very un-bling copper grounding lug from Lowes. Seems to be much stronger than Stinger, urrgh.









Before mouting the amp, I did quick test with and found it was emitting a low (about 40 hrs) pulsing sound. So it’s going back to the vendor. 









Here’s a shot of the ensolite on the trunk trim piece. This is the front and back of the same piece. There’s a second piece similar to this on the other side of the trunk. The ensolite helps cut down on the sound coming from the trunk vents. Not so much a barrier but to cut down on the reflections of the sound as it comes bouncing up from the inside of the rear quarter panel. Between these and the channels over the rear shelf there is very little noise coming from the rear of the interior. Quite an improvement over the stock STI where most of the noise comes from the back.


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## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

shinjohn said:


> I'd suggest disconnecting the A/C control harnesses and tube to get it out of the way. Likewise, just unscrew the shift knob, undo the boot's buttons, and take the out of the way next time. Then, take blue painters tape and tape around the opening, because it's easy to get the dash scratched up if you don't!


This is good advice. I ended up removing the shift knob and boot. I ended up leaving the AC controls attached and wish I hadn't it kept getting in the way. I forgot about protecting with blue tape. Good thought. I had a bunch on hand and used it all over the place. Forgot to protect the trim pieces with it and wish I had.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice looking install. And that's a great car you have. I love Sti's/WRX's.


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

Gregor said:


> How are those sail panels coming? I was thinking about going that route, but wanted to wait and see how yours turned out. The 27s are pretty big and I’m not sure they’d fit there terribly well.


To be honest, I don't mind my tweeter install. It doesn't look ideal, or sound ideal, but it is good enough for me. Most people would probably scoff at it however.

I just couldn't pass it up because it was soooooo easy. The sail panel pops right off and I just drilled a small hole in it and mounted the tweets right to it. I used a stip of ensolite of all things to trim it up and protect the back of the tweet. 

I don't think it looks great but it's enough that it doesn't catch you eye as being wildly out of place.

Before being trimmed:




















After being trimmed:


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## fastev (May 28, 2007)

Gregor said:


> That’d be great. Do you have an install log?


I don't for the WRX yet. I need to order some Raammat and Ensolite first. I just started the sail panels because i was antsy to get started and they were an easy way to go as I didn't have to pull anything apart yet. 
I will get some pictures of them up to where I am now. I'm planning on getting the grill cloth and resin tonight.


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## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

*The tuning continues....*

A little more tuning work today. I’ve been attempting to tune it since day one. But with the drivers being green and the head cold I have been fighting it was pretty pointless. Every time I get it the car it needed to be re-tuned. At the end of the first week, things were starting to jell. The system seemed to need less and less PEQ to get it sound right. Although, it still isn’t sounding quite right. I do plan on getting a mic and setting up a PC based RTA, but for now it will need to by ear. 

Here’s a few screen of the CD7100’s tuning options. First one is of the deck with the default colors of blue and red. I think I prefer this over the all red, even though it doesn’t go with the cars interior lights. On the right is the spectrum analyzer. Fun, but mostly pointless for tuning. I typically leave it on the song title text screen instead of this.










*3 Way Active Crossover*
Here’s the cross-over settings. I’ve got the tweeter crossed at 3.15k, with an 18 degree slope. The mid bass cuts off at 2kz with an 24 degree slope. Even though the graphic doesn’t show the underlapping its there. The low end cuts off at 63 hz. The sub isn’t in, but you can see the cross over setting is there but will need to be tuned once the sub is added. I choose the 3.15k cut off for the tweeter as well as the underlaping because there were some painful peaks I was trying to clear up. 









*Time Alignment*
Here’s the CD7100’s TA screen. This is the same spot you set the gains for each channel. I’ve got the tweeters turned down about 4db as they seemed a little loud compared to the mid bass. I have’t taken distance measurements yet, so the TA adjustments are done by ear. So I think the tweeters mounting location is too messed-up to appreciate the TA much. I hear it in the midbass, but it doesn’t seem to help the tweeters. 









*PEQ*
Last night I ran across this thread where B-Squad is referencing a CD full of sound clips of 31 different frequencies. While I can’t adjust the PEQ per side, at least I can use the sound clips get a little better tune than I can get with just great sounding songs. So off I went to test it. The first surprise was that there was pretty massive valley at 12.5khz. I had the PEQ all the way up and I think I could have gone further. The peaks between 2khz and 5khz were expected, and I had already tuned them down a bit. I suspect the 12.5khz issue is primarily caused by the tweeter position. At least I’m hoping it is. If dropped my head a foot, so the drivers were more on axis, it was improved. We’ll see how this changes when I move the tweeters. 

Here’s the PEQ for the high channel. This PEQ is for the tweeter only. There’s another one for the mid bass and a third one for the sub. 5 bands for the upper frequency drivers and one for the sub. I don't know what the graph on the right is for. Its not mentioned in the manual and I've never seen anything appear there. The P1 at the bottom is the programed setting. You can assign all the TA, Xover and PEQ settings to the buttons below. Then quickly switch between each setting. At first I used this when making changes so I could go back to the starting point. Although I haven't settled on a baseline yet, so I'm not using it so much. The other MAJOR issue with the CD7100 is all the settings are lost when the battery is disconnected. While it does support reading them from CDR or USB, the manual says that if you use the saved data, you can only do the adjustments on the web site. I haven't tried it yet, but that all sounded pretty lame to me. 









Here’s the PEQ for the midbass. I spent most of my time with the tweeter, so these bands might need a bit more work. Since I don’t have a sub, you can see I’m asking the midbass’s for a bit more bass. The RW165/1s can do it, not doubt. But they don’t sound like they enjoy it all that much. I’m cutting off anything below 63hz to give them a break. But really, I need a sub so I can let them shine in their “area of expertise” without having to carry that much low end.









*The result?*
I wish I could say that it moved my soundstage 3 feet in front of my window but it didn’t. After tuning with the CD, the highs sounded a lot better with the missing 12.5khz partially restored. But the midbass was a bit messed up, so I retuned by ear. Some how I ended up with way too much EQ in the 100hz range. I was rushed toward the end so it wasn’t too big of a surprise. The sound stage is still too flat and I long for low, clean bass. I'm counting on the sub and the tweeter reposition to solve all my issues. Ah, if it were only that simple. At least both of those things will move me further along to the next issue. 

I’m really enjoying all these adjustments. But occasionally I find myself thinking of what a friend always likes to say, “Is it better or just different?” Many times a few clicks on the PEQ may only be “different” but not better. It might be better at the time because it sounds better, for that song, for that amount of road noise for that amount of caffeine in my blood. But is it really better overall, or will it need to tweaked the next I get in the car? I’m not complaining, just making an observation. This is a good problem to have.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

hahahahaha man, that tweeter install.....

one cant but think "man, its kinda ghetto....."

but one cant but simultaneously think "man .... that kinda looks pretty good!"

I love it! pretty clever


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> hahahahaha man, that tweeter install.....
> 
> one cant but think "man, its kinda ghetto....."
> 
> ...



LOL, thanks. Your thoughts on it are about the same as mine.


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

The STI is looking awesome so far, nice progress.


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## fastev (May 28, 2007)

As I promised, here are a few (crappy) pics of my in-progress sail panels. I have finished sanding the Everglass, soon it'll be topped with some Rage Gold followed by some polyester primer, possibly texture coat, and flat black paint.


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Greg,
Thanks for the update. With tuning, you just have to keep with it and don't get discouraged. Remember your ears get tired after a fairly short period of intense listening/tuning (I find my limit right about an hour) so learn to say enough is enough for a day. You can come back another day fresher and get more accomplished.

One of the things I've really come to use alot is the pre-sets on my C701 controller. Can you store your xover and eq settings somehow on the Eclipse? If so, I highly recommend using one preset as your "baseline" you can go back to if you get "lost" in the process or are unsure. Either that, or write down your baseline settings, so you an always easily go back to them. A couple of other notes on how I do things, which isn't necessarily the best or right way, but some ideas for you....

- Always do crossover adjustments first prior to EQ or other things. My main baseline preset has no EQ, so I can easily go back, readjust crossovers, and then re-eq again after.
- T/A can be a great tool for stage centering, but I've found it to be harder to utilize in a highly reflective environment. If you mount your tweeters higher, (yours are in the doors, so not too high) the impact of reflections seem to alter the impact of the delay. As such, when I was tuning a set of tweeter in pillars, I turned T/A off until I got things to sound tonally OK on the high end, then reapplied the delay after. That seemed to get the best results for me. YMMV.
- I try to only use lifts to get a minor deficiency up, not to fix huge holes. Seems you EQ up at least as much, if not more than cut. Just be careful with this strategy, because you're dumping an enormous about of extra power into these bands.

Nice job though, keep up the good work!

fastev, nice sail panels!


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## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

fastev said:


> As I promised, here are a few (crappy) pics of my in-progress sail panels.


Long ago, I had looked at the sail panels and dismissed them as would be too small for the Lotus tweets. But I have to admit, the last couple days, I've been staring at the sail panels wondering about the possibilities. In the Impreza interior the sail panel is the furthest left most position from the drivers left ear. The a piller is at least 2 more inches in, same for the kicks. Its closer, yes, but the angle is better. Your pics have inspired me to at least try them in this position. I do like that the trim is small and inexpensive. If I mess it up badly, its not too hard to start over. Where'd you get the replacement panels?


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

Greg, I think I have set of sail panels at home you could have. They have a couple of holes drilled in them from when my tweeters were mounted there. I bought a new set when I moved the tweets to the a-pillars, and if you're going to glass them up the holes won't matter anyways. Let me know if you want them, shipping wouldn't be more than $5 I'd imagine.


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## fastev (May 28, 2007)

I bought them direct from Subaru, at about $12/each. 

One thing I do have to say about them, the way I have my cups mounted, the tweeters are firing slightly down. I stuck them on the sail panels and listened for a few days, and decided that the angle was not an issue. I will take some pictures of them in my car, well I should say my wife's car, so you can see what I'm talking about. I am using Focal TN-47's, and they sound great in that location. I have a set of TN-52's I had planned on using, but they didn't fair quite as well; I much prefered the 47's at least in this car. I suggest sticking your tweeters on there to be sure there is no imaging issues before going through the trouble of making the pods.


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## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

Shinjohn,

Some good advice as always. Answers and comments below.

SJ)Can you store your xover and eq settings somehow on the Eclipse? If so, I highly recommend using one preset as your "baseline" you can go back to if you get "lost" in the process or are unsure. 

G) Yes, the Ecplise can do that. I was doing that in the begining but stopped because I have't found a baseline worth starting from yet. After the last two days of tuning, I think I'm close.

SJ)- Always do crossover adjustments first prior to EQ or other things. My main baseline preset has no EQ, so I can easily go back, readjust crossovers, and then re-eq again after.
G) Good advise. This is how I started. When I found that I was needing excess EQ, in some cases I'd go back to square one and work with the crossovers a bit more then start again. This is how I got the underlapping between the mid and tweet. Too much at around 2.5k. I might need to rework the EQ again as the upper end sounds very different with so much added to the 12.5k range.

SJ) - when I was tuning a set of tweeter in pillars, I turned T/A off until I got things to sound tonally OK on the high end, then reapplied the delay after. 
G) Good advice. I tried doing the TA first, but it didn't sound right. After the 12.5k bump yesterday, TA seemed to have a much bigger impact. Its turning out to be less of a mircle cure than I expected. I'll try to get the tweeter location correct so less TA is needed.

SJ) - I try to only use lifts to get a minor deficiency up, not to fix huge holes. Seems you EQ up at least as much, if not more than cut. Just be careful with this strategy, because you're dumping an enormous about of extra power into these bands.
G) I ended up cutting the gains on the high band to compensate. If you only use lifts for minor deficiencies, how would you fix such big hole? I'm hoping that repostioning the tweeters will help. But until then, is there a better why to fix the valley?


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Gregor said:


> G) I ended up cutting the gains on the high band to compensate. If you only use lifts for minor deficiencies, how would you fix such big hole? I'm hoping that repostioning the tweeters will help. But until then, is there a better why to fix the valley?


Ooh.... sorry for revisiting this thread so late.....

For this 12.5 KHz issue, my guess is that you're on the right track looking at the positioning of the tweeter. Something is causing severe cancellation.

Aside from that, you can also play with phase (polarity) on the tweeters, both relative to each other and relative to the mids. Sometimes that helps.

Any time I've had a severe problem with cancellation, I've either tried to address it in the install, or I just decided to live with it/work around it. Good luck.


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## Gregor (Dec 16, 2006)

shinjohn said:


> For this 12.5 KHz issue, my guess is that you're on the right track looking at the positioning of the tweeter. Something is causing severe cancellation.


Thanks for checking back in. The list of issues is growing the more I listen. It's not troubling and quite frankly not unexpected. This is the first install I've done at this level and actually it’s gone pretty well. Regarding the 12.5k issue, I've spent quite a bit more time tuning and it turns out its more complicated. The dip also covers 10k, however there's also big peak at 8k. There absolutely no sound above 16k unless you dip your head down a foot. The PEQ looked pretty weird once I got the test tones sounding correct. However when played with music, the highs didn't sound right. I ended up bringing everything on the tweeter a few DB closer to zero softening the extreme settings, which sounded a little better. The tweeters are now being cut -8db compared to the midbass at 0. While it sounds a bit muffled sitting in the garage, once on the road, with all the road noise, it sounds well balanced. The tweeters need to be moved anyway so I’m hoping that helps the cancelation and off axis issues. If not, at least I’ll have a better idea of what to look for, and how to evaluate the new tweeter location. 

The other issues that have come up are as follows:

My original complaint about the RW165/1’s not liking the low end was incorrect. In fact it’s the door card resonating and rattling. I've been reading the tutorials on fixing it and will start with surrounding the speaker with insulation so there’s no leakage into the back of the door card. If that doesn’t fix it, I'll add more deadening all over. There's deadening on the door card already (BTX and Ensolite). I've also been toying with the idea of building some metal supports behind the driver, just to give the driver a more firm anchor. But that’s not easily done in an Impreza door as there’s not a lot anchor to. 

The other issues are with the HU. My dislike for Eclipse continues to grow, primarily around the USB support. The USB connected devices will only display the 8.3 file and directory names. So a folder for Dave Mathews appears as DAVEMA~1. Not a big deal of you only have few albums loaded, but when your maximum is well over 200, it kind of makes it hard to locate your selection. To make it worse, you can group albums by artist in folder named for the artist. But you can’t see the artist foldername. You only get to scroll through the entire list of albums. I also started noticing some static and popping sounds when using the USB. The static and 8.3 filename issue doesn’t happen when using a CD-R. I contacted Eclipse and they indicated that they are aware of the issues but could not commit to fixing them. Eclipse occasionally does make firmware fixes available for download which can be applied by burning it to CD-R then launching the install from the HU. So there’s hope that a fix for both issues may come out in the future. 
Other nit I have to pick is that all of the PEQ, TA, X-Over, gain settings and speaker layout settings are lost when the car looses power. Though there’s a USB device attached, there’s no way to store the settings. You can configured the settings on the E-Iserve web site, save them to the USB device then recall them from the HU. However the E-Iserve web site will NOT let you adjust the PEQ until it has received a white noise test from your car. This requires the purchase of a MIC. I was thinking about getting one to do some RTA on my laptop, but until then, the web site is dead to me. 

All that aside, the HU does sound great and apart from the e-iserve issue, I love the tuning options.


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