# 2007 Acura TSX Build



## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Hey everyone, I've been working on the audio build in my TSX for the past week and a half. I plan on keeping this car for quite a while, so I've decided to splurge just a bit on the audio while trying not to cut many corners. I wanted to conserve as much of the trunk space as I could so fiberglassing was the obvious choice for me. Fair warning, this is the first time I've ever attempted fiberglassing anything.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

First things first, the main components:

ZAPCO 350Wx2 DC amp
ZAPCO 500Wx1 DC amp
(2) Image Dynamics ID10's
1 pair Image Dynamics 6.5 CTX Components
40sqft of Damplifier.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Last Friday, I applied 16sqft of Damplifier between the trunk lid and the trunk (saving 24sqft for the 4 doors). I wasn't able to take any pics of the Damplifier installed since it was dark by the time I finished I did manage to get a few pictures of the trunk interior removed:




























I tried knocking around finding panels that seemed to resonate or sound hollow and I ended up applying a decent amount to the outer shell. After putting everything back together and closing the trunk lid, it definitely sounded more solid and knocking around on panels revealed much less resonance.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Last Saturday, I cut and tore the fiberglass mat I had (from US Composites). I had severely underestimated how much time it would take to do this, which ended up taking a little over 5 hrs. It did make things easier and quicker when I actually got to placing the fiberglass and soaking it with resin though. I got 114sqft cut into 1.5-2.5" wide strips and torn to 4-7" long:



















And the recipient of all the audio goodness:


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Last Monday, I took some time off work to work on my enclosures. I got the trunk taped off, which also took quite a bit longer than I expected. I ended up using 3-1/3 rolls at 60 yrs/roll.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Cool man keep going !


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Tuesday, I spent a little more time taping off a bit more near the back seat and then spent the rest of the afternoon putting down glass. The two 'pocket' areas weren't too bad and took just over an hour each to put down a layer of mat. The area by the backseat was another story. What a pain in the ass! It took me about 3.5 hrs to put down one layer back there. The combination of it being so far back in the trunk and having to fight gravity for most of that area was awful. I ended up wasting a lot of resin, time, and back ache due to that spot and later decided to change the game plan for that piece. I figured I would build a frame from MDF for the amp rack and just wrap the frame in fleece and fiberglass outside of the car, making the work easier and still result in a custom molded look.

Prepped work area:









One layer of fiberglass:


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Wednesday, I was able to get 4 layers on each enclosure (2 mat, 2 fiberglass cloth alternated) with some of the flatter spots having 5 layers (whatever I could throw on with the workable resin I had left). After letting each side cure for several hours, I got them out of the trunk. I found that sliding a putty knife around under the tape to break it free from the carpet really helped in getting the box out. 



















Even though I decided to scrap the idea of completely fiberglassing the backseat box, I still had to get it out and I was able to get it out without it cracking. 










Since I _was_ able to get it out, I can use it for measuring and fitting the MDF frame I plan to build for the amps rather than having to work in the trunk. Obviously I'll still have to double check measurements from time to time since the mold does flex and will not be 100% accurate, but for most of the MDF frame, rough measurements work anyway.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

This past Saturday, I spent about 7 hrs in the garage and got another 3 layers on each enclosure. They don't look much different but there's 7+ layers on each now (4 Mat, 3 Fiberglass cloth). I ran out of resin and won't have more until Tomorrow (Tuesday).


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

And to get us caught up to where I currently am, I got the enclosures trimmed down this afternoon. After getting them cut down, I was able to get a better idea of how thick they are. I think I'm going to add 2 more layers to the drivers side and maybe one more layer to the passenger side. The drivers side was noticeably thinner and a bit lighter than the other. I could also feel it resonate just a bit when knocking on it. After I get a couple more layers down (along with a bit of wood reinforcement and bracing), I'll re-trim, set the rings in place, and cover with fleece. I think I'll be able to get the extra layers down along with the fleece in the next couple of days.


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## Buckyibf (May 23, 2012)

Subscribed....


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Buckyibf said:


> Subscribed....


Thanks!

BTW, I'm planning on painting everything factory matched paint, not carpeted. Also I'm still not 100% sure how I'm going to do the amp rack but I'm currently kicking around the idea of using MDF 'ribs', spraying expanding foam between the MDF and using that to shape and lay fiberglass down. We'll see.


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## veloze (Jul 2, 2007)

Contemplating buying a TSX in the near future. I'll follow this built. So far...so good!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Wow that is meticulous work !


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> Even though I decided to scrap the idea of completely fiberglassing the backseat box, I still had to get it out and I was able to get it out without it cracking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you haven't already scrapped this idea, I have a suggestion. I just glassed a corner box in my car which had a few spots that had me fighting gravity also. What I ended up doing was leaving the very top open (as it appears you did)...then I took a piece of corrugated cardboard wrapped it in tape, and taped it to the shell...then, out of the car I could flip the tub around any way I needed it while I glassed a piece back in. It was a small area in my case, and for the size of your piece I'd probably tape off a piece of MDF or something more rigid than cardboard, but hopefully you get the idea.

Jay


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

JayinMI said:


> If you haven't already scrapped this idea, I have a suggestion. I just glassed a corner box in my car which had a few spots that had me fighting gravity also. What I ended up doing was leaving the very top open (as it appears you did)...then I took a piece of corrugated cardboard wrapped it in tape, and taped it to the shell...then, out of the car I could flip the tub around any way I needed it while I glassed a piece back in. It was a small area in my case, and for the size of your piece I'd probably tape off a piece of MDF or something more rigid than cardboard, but hopefully you get the idea.
> 
> Jay


Thanks for the tip. I actually did glass the top but it was only about 4 in deep. I think I'm going to stick with building the MDF frame and wrapping in fiberglass though. This way, I don't think I'll end up using nearly as much material since the fiberglass will be only cosmetic and not structural. It should also save on time.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Excellent work happening here. Me next.


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

Looking Good !!!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> Excellent work happening here. Me next.





xxx_busa said:


> Looking Good !!!


Thanks  I got 1 layer fiberglass cloth and 1.5 layers mat (2nd layer on the flatter spots) on the drivers side enclosure and 1 more layer of fiberglass cloth on the passenger side. This should now be plenty on each. Tomorrow, after they harden, I'll re-trim and set the rings in place and cover with fleece.


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

So your using the factory H/U ? Makesure and get the best line driver for those amps, Southsyde has a Matt R Class A Linear driver +20 balanced you might be able to get from him


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

xxx_busa said:


> So your using the factory H/U ? Makesure and get the best line driver for those amps, Southsyde has a Matt R Class A Linear driver +20 balanced you might be able to get from him


I do plan on using the stock HU but I honestly haven't given much thought to line drivers or much of anything outside enclosure fab. I've still got quite a bit of work there including the amp rack before I get to running wires and installing the front speakers/etc.


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## Jumbo Jet (May 31, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> And the recipient of all the audio goodness:


Great build so far. We have an 05 TSX and love it. Are those the TL wheels? They look great on it. My wife plans on keeping it for a while as well, and this thread is lighting a fire in me to do something similar for her. Thanks for taking the time to do this write up.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Jumbo Jet said:


> Great build so far. We have an 05 TSX and love it. Are those the TL wheels? They look great on it. My wife plans on keeping it for a while as well, and this thread is lighting a fire in me to do something similar for her. Thanks for taking the time to do this write up.


Happy to do it. They are TL wheels. About 6 years ago when I bought that Accord, it had steel wheels with hubcaps. I've always loved the TL wheels so I bought them for the Accord. When I got married, I let my wife drive the Accord. When I got the TSX, one of the first things I did was swap the wheels to get those TL wheels back


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## Jumbo Jet (May 31, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> Happy to do it. They are TL wheels. About 6 years ago when I bought that Accord, it had steel wheels with hubcaps. I've always loved the TL wheels so I bought them for the Accord. When I got married, I let my wife drive the Accord. When I got the TSX, one of the first things I did was swap the wheels to get those TL wheels back


Haha, I just now noticed the TSX wheels on the Accord in the background. Great swap, they look really good on the TSX.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I've been looking at the TSX also. Seems like a great replacement for my older Accord.

I like how you draped plastic to cover every body panel. I made the mistake of not doing it once, was not good.

I kind of assume the OEM HU should be fine for a decent signal if you are using a DSP device after it.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

schmiddr2 said:


> I kind of assume the OEM HU should be fine for a decent signal if you are using a DSP device after it.


The TSX HU is supposed to put out a very clean unmodified signal. All of the EQ'ing, noise, distortion, etc is apparently introduced in the external amp. The only unknown I have right now, is how many volts the signal is or if I'll need a line driver to boost it.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I think we do prefer to use a line driver at my shop on these, let me check. Been a while and might be confusing this with another silver car - haha! I'll update Saturday if I can.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> I think we do prefer to use a line driver at my shop on these, let me check. Been a while and might be confusing this with another silver car - haha! I'll update Saturday if I can.


That info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks 

On a side note, I'm taking a half-day so I'll be trimming off the extra layers of glass and positioning the rings after lunch.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I'm new to fiberglassing but it seems that sometimes working with isn't bad and sometimes it's a pain in the ass. Today was one of the more aggravating days I've had in a while. It started with trying to get the rings in just the right spot with only two hands. It took me a little while to figure out a good technique for getting the rings in a place where I could then measure and cut the dowels. To be fair, I was being pretty picky on how they were positioned because once they were in the car, there wasn't much room for 'error' since I had only about and inch between the edge of the 'mold' and the spare tire lid. I ended up having to reposition a couple of times to get that, and the height of each ring, right.

Once I got those positioned right with hot glue, it was time to apply some resin and fiberglass to strengthen them a bit. This is were my temper started to boil over. I *think* that the main goal here is just to get the dowels and ring solid enough so that when adding the fleece and layers of fiberglass to the front, it's strong enough to stay in place. What I was able to do was paint resin on the dowels and where they connect to the fiberglass mold and MDF ring... I TRIED to add fiberglass around each of the contact points but was only able to get some on some of the contacts. I tried tearing the mat into small and thin pieces but it seemed no matter what i did, the $#!T just kept bunching up and bubbling no matter how much resin I added and dabbed with the brush. I ended up wasting a decent amount of resin over this, not to mention I'm sure I've been using more than what someone with experience would use over the course of the entire project. Anyway, I'm pretty certain that the structure is strong enough to wrap fleece and add 7-8 layers of fiberglass to the front now. Everything should be fairly smooth sailing on these enclosures now, assuming that the front layer provides enough strength to hold the sub.

And the obligatory pics of the progress:


















The rings don't stick out quite as far at the top as they appear in the pic in the trunk, I think it is the angle. When I get them completed and painted, I'll take a video and post it here so anyone interested can get a better idea of the full shape.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

...and today was one of the days where I love fiberglass! With the enclosures starting to really take shape, it's kind of hard not to 

Passenger side:


















Drivers side:


















Resin Applied:


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Oh yes indeed that's a sweet shape and good stuff happening there!!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

diy.phil said:


> Oh yes indeed that's a sweet shape and good stuff happening there!!


Thank you very much. The anticipation is killing me now  Unfortunately, when I complete these, I won't be able to listen to them quite yet because I still need to build the amp rack and finish the rest of the install.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

The texture of the cured fleece was fairly rough so I sanded it a bit before adding fiberglass:









Got 2 layers of Mat and 2 layer fiberglass cloth down. The bottom looks like it wasn't stretched well but it was just where my strips overlapped.










And I'm almost out of resin again so I need to order yet another gallon.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

The enclosures had hardened and weren't tacky anymore so I made some rough cuts with scissors and put them in the trunk to check the fit and see what they looked like in the trunk.


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Looking good...


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Good work,bondo time!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Good work,bondo time!


Not quite yet, going to sand it down just a bit and get 2-3 more layers on it THEN bondo time... then paint 

Don't think I'll get anymore work done on it today because I hurt my ankle yesterday but I took a few better pics this morning of current progress


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Very nice work. Looks like you are on your way to having a very nice system here.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Does anyone have experience with the Zapco SP4-SL? I was wondering if it would make a good line driver for the stock HU. Having a little more control, especially sub level, up front would be nice too but mainly how it performs as a line driver.


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

I used one when my TL was OEM. Works great going into the Zapco DC amps.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Guys at the shop said that their first inclination would not be to use a line driver - only if needed - but we would put some equipment on it to test signal before installing. Best I can do to help


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> Guys at the shop said that their first inclination would not be to use a line driver - only if needed - but we would put some equipment on it to test signal before installing. Best I can do to help


Thanks for the info. I'll probably just install everything as is and see how it sounds, if it seems week, then I'll get the Zapco unit and enjoy.


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

Great use of space, I've always liked the look of a good look corner loaded Sub !


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Got them sanded down a bit today and put on 3 more layers mat and 1 more layer of fiberglass cloth on each.










Will get to trim the excess and start with the body filler tomorrow.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Well I wasn't able to get to the body filler today because trimming the rings and sanding them out proved to be pretty time consuming. I don't have a router so I had to rely on a dremel and a curved sanding block to try and get the fiberglass around the ring right. I also cut and smoothed the excess around the outside of the enclosures.














































Also, I'd still like to sand the face a little better before applying body filler. There are a few high spots that I'd like to get down. I've been using 60 Grit paper on a 1/4 sheet orbital sander but it really doesn't seem to be cutting into the fiberglass much. The paper also gunks up a bit and doesn't last very long. I thought about picking up some 40 Grit to see if that would help. Anybody got any ideas or am i just going to have to leave it as is and smooth out with filler?


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

Use a grinder instead. You can get them for around $50


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

capea4 said:


> Use a grinder instead. You can get them for around $50


I've got an angle grinder, should I use the standard grinding wheel or one of those thick sanding discs like this:









Never really thought to use a grinder though... that won't be too hard on the fiberglass?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I used a regular grinding wheel, worked great. Removes lots of material fast, which can be good or bad.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I got holes drilled and wire run through then I sealed the wires in with resin. After putting resin around the wire holes, I poured some acetone in the mix with a little more hardener to thin it out and painted it on the MDF rings so that it would penetrate further and strengthen the rings. I also got my first attempt at working with body filler out of the way. I was a bit surprised at how fast the stuff starts setting up but I got better with it when working on the second enclosure. I think I'll still need to do at least a couple more passes with body filler and plenty more sanding before they're ready for paint but hopefully I'll be able to complete all that tomorrow.



















While the resin was curing around the wires, I also took the two MDF pieces I had cut several weeks ago for the amps and cut some slots in them (so that I could reach through and pull wires) and glued them together into one piece instead of two separate pieces. I was originally going to try and place one amp on each side next to each sub enclosure but the amps stuck out too far for the spare tire lid to clear so I had to settle on mounting them across the back. I didn't want to waste the cut wood, so I just glued them together. They'll have more support when I start cutting the rest of the form later.


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

I start with a heavy grit, then work down and finish by hand, but it takes finesse, be very gentle.


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## GeForce (May 24, 2014)

Very nice!! I cannot wait to see it all when its finished


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

More body filler and a TON of sanding and I've got them about ready for primer now. I've got them pretty smooth and removed any of the waviness they had. I do have a small number of pinholes that I would like to try and fill without having to use more body filler though. Will a high build primer fill them effectively or is there something else I could use to avoid more filler?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Nevermind on the high build primer, think I'll pick up a tube of the bondo spot putty tomorrow to take care of it.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, high build in a can isn't the same as high build from a gun. It can work decent, but a lot of people claim the solvents never fully dissolve and can mess up paint work on top...tho I've never had that problem.

I'm not a big fan of spot putty, I usually prime...look for pin holes...mix up a small batch of filler (Rage Gold, Bondo Gold, or Dynatron DynaDeLite) and smash it into the pin holes with my fingers. One less product to buy and I feel like it works better then I sand and prime again.

Jay


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Got primer on it, quite a few more pinholes showed up, sanded the primer a bit, filled them with spot putty, sanded and applied more primer.










Got to let them dry 30 min now then wet sand and apply factory matched paint


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Got 6 coats of base coat on, gotta wait to put clear on now.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Looking forward to this. Don't see much color matched fiberglass these days.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

mires said:


> Looking forward to this. Don't see much color matched fiberglass these days.


Yea, after trying it, I can tell you exactly why  That metallic paint is very unforgiving. I ended up doing a pretty good job sanding and smoothing and am very happy with how it is turning out, but there are some flaws that nit-pickers will notice. Not a show car though so it doesn't bother me.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

...and finally after several weeks of hard work, the painted fiberglass sub enclosures are finished!



















Forgot to mention, the black on the back is plasti-dip spray. I figured it will give some grip and help the subs stay put. Will have pics of them in the car tomorrow... well, later today :laugh:


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

Nice work thus far! Fiberglass work is amazing!


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

looks great. Nice job. Dont see all too many people painting anymore. Most people take the "easy" route and just wrap them. You sir have more patience than most to actually follow through with the paint. Lots of work there.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Those sub enclosures are pretty sweet. You finished them off really good.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Thanks for the compliments everybody. If you look close, there are definitely some imperfections. Most of them, I didn't even notice when the primer was down. It wasn't until I started putting down the paint with metal flake that some of the flaws started to show. The way the flakes reflect light really exaggerate them. I'm still extremely happy with how they turned out though and most people probably wouldn't even notice the flaws.


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

eemichael83 said:


> Thanks for the compliments everybody. If you look close, there are definitely some imperfections. Most of them, I didn't even notice when the primer was down. It wasn't until I started putting down the paint with metal flake that some of the flaws started to show. The way the flakes reflect light really exaggerate them. I'm still extremely happy with how they turned out though and most people probably wouldn't even notice the flaws.


Happens every time. Dont sweat it too much. There are always flaws. No way around it. The trick is to get it good enough to fool the majority of people.


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## mrmill (Feb 11, 2013)

The turned out awesome. 


Sent from under your mom's bed


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I won't be fooled! Tell me where the flaws are...


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I'll take better photos after I get the rest of the system built, but for now, here are some cell pics of them in the car.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

i might've missed it, but where are the enclosures attached to? or are they just pressure fitted?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> i might've missed it, but where are the enclosures attached to? or are they just pressure fitted?


The only 'attachment' is the speaker wire running through a hole in the carpet covered plastic trunk liner. The fit is pretty tight and I plasti-dip sprayed the backs of them (black) to give them a bit of grip to keep them from just sliding out. This seems to be plenty because when I was riding around town with them in the trunk today, they didn't budge a bit.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Made some good progress on the amp rack today...


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I love this build freaking awesome man!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Baking in the sun...










I figured the top would sag a bit between the ribs but it is sagging more than I thought.... will get it worked out though


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Quick test fit, 3 layers of glass, and more baking...


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

That's a pretty interesting amp rack.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

And here's where I ended the day...



















I made another pass with body filler across the top but haven't sanded it. I might have it straight and smooth enough to paint tomorrow


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Painted! In the home stretch now


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

And here's what it looks like in the trunk with the amps mounted. I think it may end up looking better carpeted so it doesn't stand out so much so I may end up doing that, not sure.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Maybe trim it in carpet (trunk liner) but leave some of the silver visible to tie in with the sub boxes.

Really enjoying this build.

Jay


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> Maybe trim it in carpet (trunk liner) but leave some of the silver visible to tie in with the sub boxes.
> 
> Really enjoying this build.
> 
> Jay


I like what he said or leave it ! I like silver!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I like the silver, but if you decide to change it, it would be a shame to not show off that paint work.

Jay


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

It the paint looks really cool kinda custom and oem look at same time with it painted.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Great work! Since everyone's offering up their opinion, I'd carpet the subwoofer boxes except for a ring of about 2" around the subwoofer, just because it'd blend. But looks good regardless so get some rest, man!


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

I would....
****, I'd do what my wife says to be honest...

Lol


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

capea4 said:


> I would....
> ****, I'd do what my wife says to be honest...
> 
> Lol


:laugh:

My wife thought it would be ridiculous to do all this so I'm definitely not listening to her!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I've been having somewhat of a rough time trying to get all the wires run. I got a bit of a surprise when I started trying to bypass the stock amp with RCA's. First, the wire colors didn't seem to match up with the information that I had because some of the wire colors didn't even exist. After pulling back some of the wrap that was covering the wires, I noticed that they manufacturer had grouped what I think are the signal wires. There were 4 groups, however, there were 3 wires in each group. I think this means they are balanced inputs.










Does anyone know how I'm supposed to use these? The zapco symbilink has standard unbalanced RCA's at the HU and then converts to Balanced input by the time it reaches the amp. Basically, it looks like I need to convert the balanced output to an unbalanced RCA but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I think I may have found an _easy_ solution:

AOEM-HON20: PAC AOEM-HON20 (aoemhon20) Interface Module that Allows the

It says it is compatible with 2007 TSX and it should be plug and play with RCA outputs and a remote wire. I already got a remote wire going, but I may relocate it to this thing. I looked online and people that have used it said they get no noise with it, plus the zapco amps convert back to balanced signal so noise shouldn't be a problem at all with it. Only thing is some people said they had to modify it because a couple of wires were wrong... we'll see.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

NEED HELP! Ok so I got everything installed. I turned on the car to test it all out, sounded good for about 10 sec, as I was turning up the volume a bit (maybe half-way, not very loud), all of a sudden BRRRRRRRRRR at full blast. I turned the car off to get it to stop, now every time I turn the car on, as soon as the amps kick on... BRRRRRRRR at full blast. I narrowed it down to the Zapco 350.2 by unplugging the input connector. If I unplug the input to the 350.2, the Zapco 500.1 plays just fine even at full volume. Anybody know what could be the cause or do I just have a busted amp now?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I hope not, but maybe this? http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ion/163894-zapco-service-need-assistance.html


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

schmiddr2 said:


> I hope not, but maybe this? http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ion/163894-zapco-service-need-assistance.html


Seems like that might be it.  B.S.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Hmmmmm that sucks man I have three dc amps to install and I don't want this happening!any luck yet ?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I called Zapco and described what happened. He thought it sounded odd and told me to call them tomorrow and he would give me an RMA and address to send it off too. They're in the middle of a move.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

**** man that's just poo. Hope they can do something for you.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I thought I would try connecting to the sub amp and setting it up. First, it was a PITA trying to get the software working with the amps. In fact, I couldn't get it to work just connecting to the 500.1 through USB, however, I was able to connect to the supposedly defective 350.2. When I used the ethernet/phone like network cable to connect the two amps, I was then able to talk to both amps. I made some adjustments to the 500.1 and was sounding good. I thought I would take the stock speaker and try connecting it to the 350.2... no problems on either channel. I thought maybe something corrected itself when connecting to the amps with the software. So I disconnected and tried connecting one of the newly installed comps... I happened to try the passenger side. No problems again, other than some static sound. I thought maybe I didn't have a good connection to the amp. So now I try connecting the drivers side comps... now I get the horrendous sound and the low-z light comes on. 

I check each comp and BOTH are at 4.3 Ohms which should mean no problem. After the horrendous sound and low-z light, I turned the car off and back on to reset, and basically no sound, just a very faint noise at full volume. Take it down literally 2 clicks (out of 40) and it is silent. Very odd and I'm hoping that the amps didn't somehow fry the stereo's output signal. About an hour later, I can hear sound, rather than noise, down to about 34 out of 40 now. It's like the amp(s) are slowly coming back up after the low-z problem?????

I have no idea if coming back up slowly after a problem is normal for Zapco amps since this is my first experience with them, but so far it has been a s#itty one.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Ok so good news and bad news... the good news is, I believe the Zapco amps are working fine and the good Zapco name lives on. The bad news is, the my HU outputs might be toast.

So I've got an old 2 channel receiver out in my garage and I thought I would test the car's HU by connecting each pair of RCA's as an input on the receiver. Doing so, I had to do as I did with the Zapco amps... turn the volume all the way up only to get a slight bit of crackling static with a slight hint of the audio. At this point it seems like the HU is either wired wrong or has been toasted.

I also have a 3.5mm stereo to RCA jack that I plugged into my phone's headphone jack. I then connected each amps RCA's into the output of the phone and I'm getting solid audio... looks like both amps may be perfectly fine.

So what's wrong with the HU and what caused the low-z/clip lights to come on??? Upon taking apart the center console to try and nail down the problem, I noticed that the little inline boxes (line drivers I think) on the symbilink cables were VERY close to the RCA connectors. The RCA connectors have a gold plated case and the symbilink line drivers, for whatever reason they decided to do this, have exposed pins. It seems highly possible that when I pushed the (not an) ash try compartment and storage bin back into place, the RCA casings could have shorted some of these exposed pins. As nice as the amps are, I think it was somewhat of a poor design decision by either putting the line driver boxes so close to the RCA (HU) end of the cable or if that was a requirement, they could have designed the adjustable gain jumpers pins in a way that would be less susceptible to shorting without some electrical tape covering them. Either way, I'm not sure that shorting these, or any problems that the amps had encountered, would cause damage to the HU outputs.

It may be possible that I wired the RCA's wrong, although I think it's unlikely. I followed all the pinouts and tested these RCA's as I worked and they were producing a good signal. It seems more likely that I may have fried the output signals  Thoughts???


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Have you tried testing the amps throught the symblink transmitters? That what you plugged your phone in to ?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Have you tried testing the amps throught the symblink transmitters? That what you plugged your phone in to ?


I'm not really sure what you mean. I've tested the amps using a source signal that is different from the head unit and there are NO problems. This includes through the balanced line transmitters because without using the transmitters, I wouldn't even have RCA's to plug into. My only question, for myself, right now is whether or not the outputs on the HU got fried in the process or if I had maybe connected the RCA's to the stock HU incorrectly. I think the RCA's were wired correctly because I tested them as I was soldering and they worked fine. I also got around 10 seconds or so of music before getting the terrible sound that led to no more music. I think maybe during those 10s, the RCA's behind the center console maybe vibrated into a position that caused them to short the exposed pins on the transmitter and then damaging the outputs on the stock HU. I've wrapped the transmitters in electrical tape so this can't happen again.

Either tonight or tomorrow I plan to take one of the RCA's that I made and reconnect it to the stock connector/amp and make it as it came from the factory just to test and be 100% sure that it is the HU and not the way I have it connected RCA's. If I determine that it is the HU, I'll buy another used one off eBay or something. I thought about aftermarket HU but I'm really wanting to keep stock appearance plus I rather like the handsfree phone and steering wheel controls that I would lose. The only thing that REALLY sucks is that I've had free XM radio since I've bought the car and I'm pretty sure the person that had it before me had purchased the lifetime plan when they were offering it, meaning I had free XM for life. Now.... probably not.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Ok I didn't know if you had the symblink transmitters or the adapter that goes to RCA then symblink with no transmitters. I sound confusing but you can get adapters that don't use the transmitters. Your on to my next thought we connect back to stock to see if it all works .


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Just get the xm code off that head unit if it's fried. Or have Matt Roberts I think is his name on here mod it for you ! He's zapco wizard and has modified all kinds of stock heads for people on here! Including Acura ! I am sure he could fix it.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Do you have one of those OEM head units that needs to be connected to a speaker load for it to work properly in sending signal? Random thought... probably not applicable just because I don't have time to read through and remember how to have it hooked up.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

OH.. MY.. GOD.. These things sound ridiculous! I don't have a replacement for the busted stock head unit yet but I'm able to use my macbook as the source with splitters, etc. in the meantime. What I think I might be blown away by most is the ID10s... in those enclosures... they hit SO friggen hard and VERY deep. They hit lower and harder than my dual 12" Epik's in the house and they are made for deep bass. Could not be friggin happier... other than maybe with the addition of the DRC-SL


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Cool man glad to hear !


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## Gn4rkillz (May 13, 2014)

eemichael83 said:


> NEED HELP! Ok so I got everything installed. I turned on the car to test it all out, sounded good for about 10 sec, as I was turning up the volume a bit (maybe half-way, not very loud), all of a sudden BRRRRRRRRRR at full blast. I turned the car off to get it to stop, now every time I turn the car on, as soon as the amps kick on... BRRRRRRRR at full blast. I narrowed it down to the Zapco 350.2 by unplugging the input connector. If I unplug the input to the 350.2, the Zapco 500.1 plays just fine even at full volume. Anybody know what could be the cause or do I just have a busted amp now?


Hey, I am thinking I know the issue you are running in to. In a lot of acuras and Hondas, they have what is called ANC (Active noise cancellation). When you add a sub to the factory system you will always run into this issue. Is it basically going full volume and tons of mid bass from the speakers and woofers? It usually takes a few seconds to kick in. Basically if this is what is happening. You have a couple of microphones in the car that would need to be unplugged. I have heard that through the stereo in some of these you can turn the ANC feature off. The sound will also change when you are driving. Lemme know if this helps! I'm 99% positive this is the issue.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I was able to confirm today without a doubt that the HU output signal has been damaged. After messing around with the amps a bit more, I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to put in an aftermarket HU or pre-amp and the stock appearance and functionality will have to take a back seat to fidelity. The reason why is that when I was using my Macbook to tune the amps, I also used it as my audio signal... It sounds AMAZING. The detail is incredible, the subs are very responsive and unrestrained, its just high quality audio unlike anything I've heard in quite a while. So after saving the settings to the amps and putting the Macbook away, I plugged my phone in as the audio signal. I anticipated the signal not being as strong, meaning I knew I would have to turn the volume up higher for the same output, but I did NOT anticipate just how much the clarity and detail would suffer. With my phone as the source, the bass sounded a bit muddy, the subs weren't responding to the lower frequencies (<40Hz) as well and even the very low frequencies were hardly audible anymore. The highs and kids were also lacking detail and sounded a bit more muffled. I don't believe a re-tune would fix these kinds of problems... garbage in=garbage out. Unfortunately when the stock HU was still working, I didn't have a tune on the amps so I'm not sure how good the signal is compared to the Macbook. Sooo.... I think instead of spending $300 on a used stock HU and possibly being disappointed with the result and then buying an aftermarket unit afterwards, I'll just skip replacing the stock unit and go straight to an aftermarket one.

So, with that said, it has been a good 7 or 8 years since I've messed with aftermarket units. I think the last one I had was the Panasonic CQ-DRX900U. I know that the market for aftermarket units has shrunk quite a bit since then so I'm not really aware of what's out there. Anyone have suggestions? I'd like a 1-din unit to make use of the OEM MP3 mounting kit. I don't really care if the HU has built in amp but I would like bluetooth so I can connect my phone media, very high quality signal, some EQ/DSP functions in the HU would be nice, XM, I don't know if they make aftermarket HU's with hands free now but that would also be nice, it would also be nice if it had a fairly stock or 'stealth' appearance. I don't want something bright silver or flashy thats going to stand out. Thanks.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I didn't think they made kits for the TSX. Another thing is that you will need some sort of device to communicate with anything attached to it, ie steering wheel controls. But I would look at Alpine, Kenwood, Pionner.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

schmiddr2 said:


> I didn't think they made kits for the TSX. Another thing is that you will need some sort of device to communicate with anything attached to it, ie steering wheel controls. But I would look at Alpine, Kenwood, Pionner.


They make a factory MP3 player that comes with a mount for the center pocket. I've read that you can order just the mounting kit and it fits a 1-din.









Ends up looking something like this:









Soo, until I figure out what I'm going to do with the head unit, I went ahead and carpeted the amp rack and mounted the amps. I think it looks much better carpeted.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I agree, that looks even better carpeted. Maybe some black accents/trim to frame the amps, just an idea. But the floating amps look you got going is nice.

I would not want a radio down there, too far to take eyes off road if you often like to change stations, tracks, or folders; although there should be very little glare on the screen there. It certainly looks ok and I suppose it's the only way to do it without going crazy and building a new dash. Plus I think I've heard the OEM radio is tied into other electronics in the car.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

But he would be leaving the factory HU in the car, just not using the outputs. That shouldn't be an issue.

Alpine is a decent choice. You could get something like the 149BT, which would give you streaming BT, BT handsfree, some above average EQ functions and time alignment IIRC, plus iPod, USB, aux in and I believe it also has satellite radio and steering wheel control inputs. It's pretty reasonably priced, all in all with a street price under $300. It also does HD radio, iPhone/iPd control and Pandora control.


Jay


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I know, my point was changing the radio and rebuilding the dash might be quite involved. If the radio position is acceptable then it will be a lot easier to just add the second unit.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Which I'm pretty sure was his plan. Yeah, rebuilding it could be a pain, but adding the factory part and retaining the OG HU would be fairly easy.

Jay


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

eemichael83 said:


> ...and finally after several weeks of hard work, the painted fiberglass sub enclosures are finished!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously inspiring me to make an attempt at glassing.
PMing you a few questions - hope it's alright.


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

Just a thought here. So somebody previously said that it may be the microphones need to be unplugged so as to fix the issue. Obviously using a source other than the stock radio (such as a MacBook) would solve this particular issue because essentially you ARE unplugging the mics because the stock head unit isn't being used. Would those mics continue to do their job after an aftermarket radio is installed?


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

Oh yeah, I have a Honda accord and aftermarket radios go down there in that position, I have no troubles seeing mine. Install looks good man, keep it up.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

WhereAmEye? said:


> Just a thought here. So somebody previously said that it may be the microphones need to be unplugged so as to fix the issue. Obviously using a source other than the stock radio (such as a MacBook) would solve this particular issue because essentially you ARE unplugging the mics because the stock head unit isn't being used. Would those mics continue to do their job after an aftermarket radio is installed?


It is NOT the noise cancellation system. I have already confirmed that the pre-outs on the stock head unit are toast by reconnecting one of the original outputs and its' speaker to the stock head unit. I've also already ordered a Pioneer 80PRS.


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

That's good to hear, also a good head unit. Which dsp will you be using, the Pioneer or the amps?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

WhereAmEye? said:


> That's good to hear, also a good head unit. Which dsp will you be using, the Pioneer or the amps?


Mostly the amps. It will be nice to have some easily adjustable EQ in the HU rather than having to connect up a laptop to the Zapco's though.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Get a zapco drc


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Get a zapco drc


If I ended up using a good stock HU, that's exactly what I was going to do. I think the Pioneer will get me plenty of on-the-fly tunability after I get a good baseline tune from the amps though


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I ended up getting so caught up in trying to finish my install that I forgot to post a few of the progress pics I took.

I had cut the spacers out of 3/4" MDF. It has a few irregularities because I was trying to match some of the flat spots on the door but it ended up not really mattering because I just countersunk the screws that mount the spacer to the door anyway. Once cut, I mixed up a small batch of resin thinned with acetone so that it would soak into the MDF a little better. This would allow the MDF rings to be stronger for the screws and water resistant.










I also ended up spraying a coat of plasti-dip I had left from the sub enclosures on the rings. I got significant coverage of Damplifier on the inner skin of each door because it was also acting as my vapor barrier for the open holes. I probably got at least 50% of the amount of coverage on the outer skin as I did on the inner skin.



















After I got all of this and mounting the amps done, I thought it would be down hill from here. I had ordered a Pioneer DEH-80PRS as my head unit and the factory MP3 mounting kit for the TSX. I thought once I got these two items in the mail, I'd basically be done. Unfortunately, they discontinued the factory mounting kit so I started making my own out of the center pocket. I've got a bit more progress done than in these pics but I'm getting close to done with it.



















One thing to note about the factory mounting kit is that the slot is for the 1-DIN size without the trim plate. Basically, any trim plate that comes with the head unit can't be used with the mounting kit without modification. I've cut my "kit" so that the trim plate can be attached to the head unit and it will be recessed in the middle. Since the factory pocket has a curve to it, only the center of the CD player trim plate will be recessed and the edges will stick out a bit like the rest of the HU's face.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

That's cool man !


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Haven't really had as much free time recently so I haven't gotten to work on this much. It's starting to look like something now though


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Gotta get some generic matte black paint here in a bit and put the finishing touches on it.


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## topsub (Jun 15, 2014)

Nice Glass Work!


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

eemichael83 said:


> Gotta get some generic matte black paint here in a bit and put the finishing touches on it.


looks damn good!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Now all thats left is to wire in the connector and hands-free mic for the new head unit and done!


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Why does that look so perfect. Crazy. Good job!


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

eemichael83 said:


> Now all thats left is to wire in the connector and hands-free mic for the new head unit and done!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

schmiddr2 said:


> Why does that look so perfect. Crazy. Good job!


Thanks, that means a helluva lot.



DLO13 said:


>


I literally laughed out loud.

Question: The 80PRS has an Orange/White wire coming off and says to connect to 'lighting switch terminal'. On the TSX there are wires for 'Illumination Wire' and 'Dimmer Wire'. Anyone know which one I'm supposed to connect to?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I don't know. This may help: 2006-2007 Acura TSX without Navigation Wiring Information


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Installed!



















There _is_ a _slight_ issue though. The pocket below won't open now. I suppose adding the fiberglass and paint was enough extra to keep the door from clearing when trying to open. Before paint, I checked the fit but I had just assumed that the door on the other compartment would clear... oops! Not a big deal because I never use the 'not an ash tray' nor the cigarette lighter socket there anyway. There's another cigarette lighter socket in the arm rest if I ever need to plug in an accessory. I might end up taking it out and sanding enough off when it cools down in the fall but for now, I'm done, just need to re-tune the amps!


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

That looks a butt load better than a run of the mill plastic kit anyway, it looks reallllly good yo. Do mine now please


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

You usually only connect to the illumination as the radio doesn't have a dimmer.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Can anyone verify that these are the jumper positions (in red) for 0db on the symbilink balnced line transmitters?










I'm getting the dreaded full blast sound and I think it might be due to input clipping.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

That looks correct i am looking at my zapco dc manual that looks like 0.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> That looks correct i am looking at my zapco dc manual that looks like 0.


Thanks, that's what the pic on the actual transmitter looks like, but wasn't 100% sure. I'm starting to think I might send this amp into Zapco because I've had nothing but problems out of it. I unmounted it so I could see the lights on it and I don't get consistent errors. Just running it for a couple of minutes at low volume, something my laptop speakers could probably keep up with, I would get a flicker or two on the left and/or right output clip, a couple of flickers on the input clip, and sometimes the protect light would come on and stay on for a few seconds without any of the clip lights coming on. Didn't have low-z light throughout but kept at low volume. If I turn it up much more than that, I get that god awful 'horn' sound at full blast. When I disconnect the DC 350.2, I can crank the hell out of the 500.1, running 2 ID 10's in parallel for 2Ohm load, and I get no protect lights or clipping. I just think there may be something wrong with the amp... or possibly the symbilink balanced line transmitter I have connected to it. I may try swapping the two I have tomorrow and see if the problem follows the balanced line transmitter. I can see how these would be badass amps but right now I'm pretty discouraged and disappointed.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

that tone is a known issue... it had something to do with the DSP inside. You need to send it in before it blows some of your speakers... They will add a board that will fix the issue.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> that tone is a known issue... it had something to do with the DSP inside. You need to send it in before it blows some of your speakers... They will add a board that will fix the issue.


They told me over the phone that that issue only occurs when the clip light stays on for a certain amount of time. My problem is that it shouldn't even be clipping at the volume I'm trying to maintain. I think my laptop can put out more than what this thing is putting out before failing.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

this blows man pretty sure this what fried you stock head? i am getting leary about installing my 2 350.2s off my stock head. if i fry it i am screwed theres no aftermarket kit for my car. i hope maybe its your transmitter.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> this blows man pretty sure this what fried you stock head? i am getting leary about installing my 2 350.2s off my stock head. if i fry it i am screwed theres no aftermarket kit for my car. i hope maybe its your transmitter.


I'm not 100% sure what toasted my stock head unit, it still may have been my fault as I described before because I don't think my aftermarket unit has been damaged. I'm going to try swapping transmitters this afternoon and I'll let you know what I figure out.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> They told me over the phone that that issue only occurs when the clip light stays on for a certain amount of time. My problem is that it shouldn't even be clipping at the volume I'm trying to maintain. I think my laptop can put out more than what this thing is putting out before failing.


Did they say the clip light indicator on the amp or the transmitter. Because I had the issue and they didn't even ask any questions. They just said send it in...


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> Did they say the clip light indicator on the amp or the transmitter. Because I had the issue and they didn't even ask any questions. They just said send it in...


It seemed like he was talking about on the amp but he wasn't specific. I check that the transmitter isn't clipping before I try swapping with my other one.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Ok so I'm not 100% sure I've figured out what the problem is but I AM 100% sure that I hate these balanced line transmitters. I pulled the deck out enough to be able to see the lights on the balanced line transmitters. I was able to crank the deck to full volume without any issue whatsoever, no clip lights on the transmitters and nothing on the amps either. This made me think that perhaps when I had everything back in the center console, maybe the deck was pushing on the wire of one of the transmitters causing it to bend and maybe intermittently short internally??? Then maybe when I pulled the deck out it relieved that 'pinch' and no internal short on the transmitter? I'm really not sure but this is the only thing I can think of seeing as how it was working 100% when I had the deck pulled out. I didn't even bother trying to swap the transmitters.

This brings me to a question... are there any adapters for the symbilink cables that convert to RCA that I can use that will allow me to disconnect the powered transmitter??? I'd really like to ditch those things if possible as they seem to be the source of my problems... it may also be why Zapco has decided to do away with them on their newer models.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

You can try Symbilink TP2 or TP4 drivers. They are a little more robust. That being said I had issues with the full blast sound on my dsp6.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> Ok so I'm not 100% sure I've figured out what the problem is but I AM 100% sure that I hate these balanced line transmitters. I pulled the deck out enough to be able to see the lights on the balanced line transmitters. I was able to crank the deck to full volume without any issue whatsoever, no clip lights on the transmitters and nothing on the amps either. This made me think that perhaps when I had everything back in the center console, maybe the deck was pushing on the wire of one of the transmitters causing it to bend and maybe intermittently short internally??? Then maybe when I pulled the deck out it relieved that 'pinch' and no internal short on the transmitter? I'm really not sure but this is the only thing I can think of seeing as how it was working 100% when I had the deck pulled out. I didn't even bother trying to swap the transmitters.
> 
> This brings me to a question... are there any adapters for the symbilink cables that convert to RCA that I can use that will allow me to disconnect the powered transmitter??? I'd really like to ditch those things if possible as they seem to be the source of my problems... it may also be why Zapco has decided to do away with them on their newer models.


Just a FYI. In my experience the "Tone of Death" happened randomly at times and frequently at times. I did notice it happened a lot when I'd go to the gas station and leave the car in the acc position so I can listen to my music as I pump gas and when I restarted the car It would happen. I think others have mentioned that it typically happens when the car goes on, off and back on. Try toying with that process and see if it happens. I'm pretty positive it's not the transmitter, but the amp. I sent my DC350.2 to have that board added and never had that happen again. I know Zapco is in the middle of a move, but if you don't mind biting the bullet and paying the shipping costs to them i'm sure they'll take care of you. Try emailing [email protected] or [email protected]


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> Just a FYI. In my experience the "Tone of Death" happened randomly at times and frequently at times. I did notice it happened a lot when I'd go to the gas station and leave the car in the acc position so I can listen to my music as I pump gas and when I restarted the car It would happen. I think others have mentioned that it typically happens when the car goes on, off and back on. Try toying with that process and see if it happens. I'm pretty positive it's not the transmitter, but the amp. I sent my DC350.2 to have that board added and never had that happen again. I know Zapco is in the middle of a move, but if you don't mind biting the bullet and paying the shipping costs to them i'm sure they'll take care of you. Try emailing [email protected] or [email protected]


I think that's what I'm going to end up doing, it's a ridiculous problem and I'm afraid of even turning the thing on while I'm driving. It happened while I was driving through a busy intersection and I wasn't able to stop the ear piercing sound until I was able to pull over and shut the car off. Then later that afternoon when I was 'testing', it would make that sound almost as soon as the HU came on. If the little module fixes that, then I'm all for it. Sucks that I have to send it off and be without it for a couple of weeks though, especially being a brand new amp.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I've never had it happen to me while driving. It only happened to me on initial startup of the system.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> I think that's what I'm going to end up doing, it's a ridiculous problem and I'm afraid of even turning the thing on while I'm driving. It happened while I was driving through a busy intersection and I wasn't able to stop the ear piercing sound until I was able to pull over and shut the car off. Then later that afternoon when I was 'testing', it would make that sound almost as soon as the HU came on. If the little module fixes that, then I'm all for it. Sucks that I have to send it off and be without it for a couple of weeks though, especially being a brand new amp.


I know how you feel. The first time it happened I just shut the system off and was too scared to turn it back on. Zapco was able to turn the amp around in just a few days. I think it was there maybe 2 days. It was on the UPS truck longer than it was at Zapco. Not trying to sell my amp but I am selling that one. It's in mint condition and has the board installed by Zapco. If your looking for a replacement. 


teldzc1 said:


> I've never had it happen to me while driving. It only happened to me on initial startup of the system.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


I've actually had it happen while driving. That was the worst one because I was totally not ready for it lol. It took me a few seconds to get it together and turn the system off lol


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> I know how you feel. The first time it happened I just shut the system off and was too scared to turn it back on. Zapco was able to turn the amp around in just a few days. I think it was there maybe 2 days. It was on the UPS truck longer than it was at Zapco. Not trying to sell my amp but I am selling that one. It's in mint condition and has the board installed by Zapco. If your looking for a replacement. l


Well if this board they install fixes it, then I shouldn't need a replacement. I emailed [email protected] last night and havn't got a response yet, I'm sure he's busy.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

i have always had better luck calling them. infact i am calling right now to see if they can tell if my amps will have that problem. my car is family car and i cant have that happen to my wife who drives it most.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

any way to tell which dc amps or year that where doing this?


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

optimaprime said:


> i have always had better luck calling them. infact i am calling right now to see if they can tell if my amps will have that problem. my car is family car and i cant have that happen to my wife who drives it most.




called them no one asnwered. i guess there still moving to the new site.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> Well if this board they install fixes it, then I shouldn't need a replacement. I emailed [email protected] last night and havn't got a response yet, I'm sure he's busy.


also try emailing [email protected] he's the guy in charge of RMAs



optimaprime said:


> any way to tell which dc amps or year that where doing this?


I don't think THEY know which ones. They just know its the older DC (symbilink version) amps. Because I had quite a few DC amps and I gave them serial numbers and they told me to send them all in. Cost me a good 90 dollars to ship those amps and I find that only 1 needed the fix.... would've saved me a lot of money to just ship the DC350.2.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Damn it I have two 350.2 and 500.1.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

talked to john at zapco today he said its reset board. he told me to send him email with model and serial numbers then he send me a RA number i pay for shipping and he put boards in for free. i gonna do it so i dont have this happen to me. i called and asked for john. nice dude.

he also said its a combo of things, how the amps turn in the car, and dsp in amp. sounds like a noise thing.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

optimaprime said:


> talked to john at zapco today he said its reset board. he told me to send him email with model and serial numbers then he send me a RA number i pay for shipping and he put boards in for free. i gonna do it so i dont have this happen to me. i called and asked for john. nice dude.
> 
> he also said its a combo of things, how the amps turn in the car, and dsp in amp. sounds like a noise thing.


nice. john is a great guy, he always comes through!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Ok I am freaking boob man ! I had these amps for while now I have no idea why said I had 350.2s I have 200.2s. Damn I dumb palm to forehead ! Wonder if they have the same problem.

Sorry for cluttering your thread man I do love your build and hope I can mimic some other stuff.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Sorry for cluttering your thread man I do love your build and hope I can mimic some other stuff.


No problem man, we'll get it all figured out.  I just shipped both my amps out today. Haven't had any problems from the 500.1 but he just said to send them in and they'd mod both. Will probably be 3 weeks until I get them back because it takes 5 business days one way shipping. Luckily I connected the rear door speakers to the aftermarket deck when I installed it so I at least have something in the mean time.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> No problem man, we'll get it all figured out.  I just shipped both my amps out today. Haven't had any problems from the 500.1 but he just said to send them in and they'd mod both. Will probably be 3 weeks until I get them back because it takes 5 business days one way shipping. Luckily I connected the rear door speakers to the aftermarket deck when I installed it so I at least have something in the mean time.


I'm glad that this is getting resolved. I always wondered if the mono amps were susceptible to this tone of death. Guess that means I have to send ANOTHER amp in...:mean:


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> I'm glad that this is getting resolved. I always wondered if the mono amps were susceptible to this tone of death. Guess that means I have to send ANOTHER amp in...:mean:


Well when I talked to him on the phone the first time, he made it sound like it was only a problem with the multi channel amps. I let him know what I had, and that I hadn't had any problems with the 500.1 but he said to go ahead and send 'them' in. Probably a 'just in case' thing... or maybe he only meant for me to send in the 350.2 but mis-spoke. I sent both in anyway.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I called talked john again told him it was 200.2 I have he said they had problems with multi channels. We talked for good 20mins he's good . He confirmed what Ian doing is all good and told me some other things.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I had the modification done and I should get my amps back on wednesday. Fingers crossed I don't end up having any more problems


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> I had the modification done and I should get my amps back on wednesday. Fingers crossed I don't end up having any more problems


looking forward to this build getting finished!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

And within a few seconds of playing sound... the sound of death... again. I hate this amp.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

So I emailed john at Zapco to see what his thoughts were. I still suspect that the stupid line driver is faulty so if john doesn't have anything constructive to say, I'll probably try cutting the line driver out and manually wiring up the RCA's without the powered line driver using this pinout:










...and if that doesn't resolve the issue, I may take the amp with me to the shooting range and put a few holes in it.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> So I emailed john at Zapco to see what his thoughts were. I still suspect that the stupid line driver is faulty so if john doesn't have anything constructive to say, I'll probably try cutting the line driver out and manually wiring up the RCA's without the powered line driver using this pinout:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i think i have the symbilink adapter that has high level on one side and symbilink on the other


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I haven't heard anything from Zapco yet, not sure if I should be surprised by that or not honestly, so I decided to go ahead and order a cheap 6pin mini din cable from monoprice along with an RCA cable. Once i get these in, I'll make the cable that connects to the symbilink connector without the 15V line that the line drivers have. Hopefully that'll resolve any problems... if not, I'll probably get a JL amp or something and never consider a Zapco amp again. As always, I'll keep anybody interested updated whether it is a success or complete failure.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow. That sucks. At least you're running an aftermarket HU now so you have high enough voltage that that might work. 
Good luck!

If it doesn't work, I'm in for pics of Zapco amp with bullet holes in it. lol

Jay


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Since there is some time till next update I was wondering what kind of work do you do Michael?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

My guess? Electrical Engineer? haha

Jay


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

schmiddr2 said:


> Since there is some time till next update I was wondering what kind of work do you do Michael?


Well my degree is in Electrical Engineering but a lot of my professional experience comes from software development and, recently, ethical hacking.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Just wondering; I do industrial machine repair. I don't have EE degree so it can be tough at times.

Ethical = legal?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Yes ethical=legal. Unfortunately when most people think about hackers, they think about the malicious ones that are trying to steal, blackmail, wreak havoc, etc. But there are good hackers too and those are the ones that generally try and hinder what a malicious hacker is doing. There are a couple of aspects to ethical hacking but one of the more common areas is called a penetration test. During one of these, a company will hire a small team of ethical hackers to basically take on the role of a malicious hacker and see if they can break into there network and discover what they have that might be vulnerable. Then, this information is given to the company along with some guidelines on how they need to patch up and fix any vulnerabilities so that if a legitimate attacker came along, they would no longer be able to break in. Another aspect is just discovering vulnerabilities in applications, web sites, etc and disclosing that information to the authors of the software so that they can patch the problem and release an update, that way all their customers are not at risk (at least for the discovered vulnerability).


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

So I got the parts to make my own cable in today... made my own cable without the line driver:










All seemed well at first... everything sounded good, although at an obviously lower volume level. I was able to turn the head unit up nearly full volume for a bit, I adjusted the input sensitivity to 5.00V to match the pre-out of the head unit. This was only loud enough for moderate listening and nowhere near the volume I was achieving with a cheap 50Wpc Alpine amp connected to JL Cleansweep + stock head unit of my Accord. So... I adjusted the input sensitivity down to around 2.5V which bumped up the volume... but after a few minutes and turning the head unit up to full volume, the dreaded sound came back. After quickly turning the car off and then back on, the sound of death came back quickly and at much lower volume. Needless to say... I'm done with this pile of $hit. It's unbelievable to me that after sending it off to Zapco, and them sending it back to me claiming it was 'fixed', that they would not respond to my email letting them know that the amp was exhibiting the same behavior. I will never buy a Zapco amp again, which is a shame since the DC 500.1 I have from them has been great and sounds great. Not sure what I'll get, but I may just get a cheap ass Alpine amp again and be done with it... at least they work. I've probably had 4 or 5 Alpine amps in the past and have never had a single issue with them. What a shame.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

That sucks man. I had decent luck calling them. Might try that . I understand thou that you would rather get different amp. Sounds like that amp has issue with it. Good luck hang in there .


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

You'd think they'd just give you another one after the crap it's put you through. I'm sure you probably don't want another problem on your hands though...or in your hands.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Yea, even if they did respond at this point, I'm not interested. It cost me $40 to send it off to them. And if I send it off as needing repair, they say there is a $70 charge to look at it. So if I send it back this second time, after they've already told me it's fixed, I'm out $150 on top of the purchase price of the amp that I haven't even really gotten to listen to yet. Why should I be on the hook to pay to have a BRAND NEW amp fixed. I'm just glad the tweeters haven't blown from this garbage yet. I do suspect at this point that the amp is to blame for blowing my stock head unit though. Another thing that sucks is I made that amp rack to fit those specific amps... I don't even care what it ends up looking like now, just hope I can find an amp that'll fit in place of this Zapco. I've already had to screw around with this for 3 months now, I don't really want to spend another week or two making an entirely new amp rack.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

WhereAmEye? said:


> You'd think they'd just give you another one after the crap it's put you through. I'm sure you probably don't want another problem on your hands though...or in your hands.


Well if they wanted to give me a new one, I'd certainly try it out, but I'm not even going to ask them. I emailed john @ zapco more than a week ago and told him that the sound that his board was supposed to fix is still there and if he had any suggestions... never responded. I could just imagine how asking them to replace this amp would go.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Sorry buddy I am zapco fan but I haven't turned my amps on yet to see if I have any problems. I hope maybe there be solution come up.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Maybe that's why the new dc amps use rcas now. I know some of problem was it was cheaper to use rcas.


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

If you're open to suggestions, why not sell the 500.1 and try out the Kenwood xr amps. They would fit pretty well in almost the same spot and are pretty cost efficient.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

WhereAmEye? said:


> If you're open to suggestions, why not sell the 500.1 and try out the Kenwood xr amps. They would fit pretty well in almost the same spot and are pretty cost efficient.


I like the 500.1 and haven't had any problems from it. The flexibility on the Parametric EQ is awesome and I can tune down to 10Hz at 10Hz intervals on the sub and bass frequencies. I might take a look at the XR400-4 for a bridged config for 2 channel though.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I just sent another email to john letting him know that it has been a week and a half since I last emailed him letting him know that his fix didn't work. I also let him know what I tried here and asked if there was anything they could do for me other than paying to send the amp back and paying the $70 or whatever to have them look at it. Not really expecting anything to happen here and I'll be looking at alternatives in the mean time. I'll be in vegas for the next couple weeks so I won't really be able to anything on this for a bit.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

what a darn shame...


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

Wait you have a Pioneer 80prs and you haven't considered running the fronts actively?...sorry side note.
Anyways have fun in Vegas


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

WhereAmEye? said:


> Wait you have a Pioneer 80prs and you haven't considered running the fronts actively?...sorry side note.
> Anyways have fun in Vegas


Nope, only 2 channel amp. I'll wait a day or so to see if john says anything, but I think I may end up getting the Alpine PDR-F50. We'll see.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Might consider the JBL MS-A1004. Seems people have had good results with them. About $200-230.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

im not sure if you want to stay with Zapco, but I have the exact amp dc350.2 that is mint and doesn't have that hideous tone of death


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

shutmdown said:


> im not sure if you want to stay with Zapco, but I have the exact amp dc350.2 that is mint and doesn't have that hideous tone of death



There you go buddy!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

A little update...

So right before I left for vegas, I decided I would email john one more time before ditching the amp and getting something else. He responded that next morning and had apparently missed my original email explaining the problems I was having. He said he would be glad to look at it and would fix any problems at no charge so I decided to go ahead and send it out to him again. A few days ago, I got an email from him explaining that he has had my amp on the bench running for more than 8 hours at varying output including long periods of high (near clipping) output with no problems whatsoever. In fact, he said that the amp that was rated for 100WRMS @4Ohms was actually putting out just over 150WRMS before clipping. I believe him.

This means, unfortunately, that something is wrong with my setup. I've been doing this for about 15 years, however this is the first setup that I've had with built in DSP in the amps. One 'feature' of these amps I didn't realize was that, although they DO have short circuit protection which cuts the amp off... this circuitry only works if the speakers are connected directly to the amp. If the speakers are behind a passive crossover, as mine are, and one of the speakers shorts, then the amp will not cut off, instead, it will sound like really loud and bad microphone feedback for a split second before going into full oscillation. Once this happens, it doesn't stop until the amps are powered off and back on. This is almost exactly the behavior I was experiencing and it could either be due to a single strand of wire that didn't make it into the screw terminals on the crossover, or something strange like over excursion of the mid/woofer causing the wire on the back of the cone to touch the speaker basket (john explained to me that this actually was happening to one of his customers). I don't think mine is the over excursion problem since I get my problem at low volume so I'm hoping that somehow I missed a strand of wire in the screw terminal or something like that and this will be an easy fix. If not, then I'm really not sure what it could even be. Should get the amp back at the end of this week or first of next week.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Wow that's good and bad . Good the amp is kicking ass bad there's still a problem. I like john a lot he has helped me a lot.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Wow that's good and bad . Good the amp is kicking ass bad there's still a problem. I like john a lot he has helped me a lot.


Yea, I'm hoping it's something stupid like a strand of wire that didn't make it in the screw terminal that is vibrating and touching the other terminal. On any other amp, the amp would have kicked off from short protect and I would have known immediately. The different behavior of these has made it hard for me to diagnose though because it's something I've never experienced before and hadn't even heard of. I wouldn't think it would be anything too major though, there's really not much to connecting an amp lol.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

True true ! I am sure you'll find it.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I hope I didn't mislead you, but as you said, it's rather strange how they designed the amp/DSP. Did you not bench test it at any point?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Make sure that you didn't let any copper tinsel fall into the wrong place when cutting or stripping wires.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

schmiddr2 said:


> I hope I didn't mislead you, but as you said, it's rather strange how they designed the amp/DSP. Did you not bench test it at any point?


No, when I read about the turn on sound that sometimes happen, John and I both thought it was that so I had no need to bench it. Then after I got it back and was still having issues, he told me that what I was experiencing should never happen and something was wrong. Plus I only had a couple days until I was going to be gone for 2 weeks so I wanted to make sure it was on its way and they could look at it while I was gone.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> Make sure that you didn't let any copper tinsel fall into the wrong place when cutting or stripping wires.


I checked the connections at the terminals on the crossover and there were no loose strands. I also checked the tweeter connections in the dash and I had used the crimp terminals and wrapped the individual wires in tape, so no potential problems there either. I think the only other thing to check that would be behind the crossover will be the speakers in the door and I used crimp terminals for those as well. The crimp terminals have a bit of extra plastic that covers the wire so I'm a bit worried that no problems will show there either. If that is the case, I'm clueless again.

One thing I did realize a couple of days ago was that while I was waiting for the new head unit to come in, I played around with using my macbook and phone as the audio sources to the amps using 3.5mm to RCA adapters and splitters... during that time, I didn't have any issues at all. This also worries me because I can't imagine why a source that is not powered by the car wouldn't have problems, but a source getting powered from the car would. If anybody has any ideas on why this could happen, please let me know.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

eemichael83 said:


> I checked the connections at the terminals on the crossover and there were no loose strands. I also checked the tweeter connections in the dash and I had used the crimp terminals and wrapped the individual wires in tape, so no potential problems there either. I think the only other thing to check that would be behind the crossover will be the speakers in the door and I used crimp terminals for those as well. The crimp terminals have a bit of extra plastic that covers the wire so I'm a bit worried that no problems will show there either. If that is the case, I'm clueless again.
> 
> One thing I did realize a couple of days ago was that while I was waiting for the new head unit to come in, I played around with using my macbook and phone as the audio sources to the amps using 3.5mm to RCA adapters and splitters... during that time, I didn't have any issues at all. This also worries me because I can't imagine why a source that is not powered by the car wouldn't have problems, but a source getting powered from the car would. If anybody has any ideas on why this could happen, please let me know.


not to question your skills, but did you use crimp connections for tapping signal or did you solder? have you checked behind the oem hu to see if there are any loose connections? I had a friend who used butt connectors to tap signal, but i guess he didnt have a tight crimp so the wire came out of the butt connector and caused some issues (blew something in his hu and he had static in the background)


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> not to question your skills, but did you use crimp connections for tapping signal or did you solder? have you checked behind the oem hu to see if there are any loose connections? I had a friend who used butt connectors to tap signal, but i guess he didnt have a tight crimp so the wire came out of the butt connector and caused some issues (blew something in his hu and he had static in the background)


Everything is soldered and taped. I've been running the rear speakers off the HU power while the amp has been gone with no problems (as well as the subs off a different Zapco DC amp). The only difference with the 2ch amp is that the signal is coming from RCA's (which a monkey can connect). I think the problem is going to be something unusual, not something amateur.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I haven't had the time to go back - have you used the RCAs for another application? Like another amplifier or using a DMM to test their continuity? This is some weird shiz.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Have you tried just running temp rcas to the amp? Like while new pair ? Or different symblink cable


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

I would start by connecting a different set of "test" speakers directly at the amp to see if it is in fact something in the speaker wiring etc.

If that checks out fine, its in the wiring, x-overs, or speakers themselves. 

The next step would be to connect each channel separately, that will cut your trouble shooting down by 50% if its only one side causing the issue. 

If you still have the same issue with the test speakers connected directly to the amp. Try swapping the Symbilink adaptor and cable from the sub amp to the full range out of your deck and to the 2 channel amp to eliminate the possibility of a bad adaptor and or Symbilink.


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## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

I feel for you on your problems with Zapcos amps. I have several of there older amps in my boat and they have been flawless. I had some of there reference series amps in my truck and decided to add the DSP Z-8 and it made a big difference. I then decided to replace the reference amps with there new Z series amps. In 6 months I have had 3 amps go bad and replaced now the last one has had problems so my dealer took all my Zapco product back and am replacing it with Mosconi. When the Zapco amps worked they were excellent. I have won 3 first place and one 2nd place in IASCA events with there product. Good Luck, John is a stand up guy and hopefully will get it worked out for you.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I got my amp back yesterday but didnt start doing anything until today. Basically, i made 2 small changes before I start really testing the thing tomorrow and they probably wont make any difference. First, i have the crossover blocks mounted behind the amps. One of the cross blocks was within a couple inches of the dist block for ground. Although i dont think it is what was causing my problem, the mag field from the current going through the wire could possibly change the crossover frequencies a bit as the amount of current in the wire changes. So the change was just to move that crossover a little further away. The other change required my pulling the dash apart again and pulling the stock stereo. The remote wire for the amps I was using was the accessory wire had had originally tapped from the stock headunit. I cut this wire, taped it up good, and wired the trigger wire going to the amps up to the trigger wire on the Pioneer HU. I dont know if this will make any difference or not, i doubt it, but at least if i get the sound again, i can shut the amps off by turning off the Pioneer HU instead of having to turn off the entire car.

I left the lower part of the dash pulled out so i can access stuff if i need to when testing. Will keep everyone posted.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I removed massive alt noise from one of my own systems by removing the crossovers from the vicinity of the heater/ac core thing under the dash... so, could be!


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## mino922 (Oct 8, 2010)

I am finally making some changes to my TSX and I am upgrading to a set of Audison Voce AVK6s and a JL XD700/5. I am running into an issue getting the mid bass driver to fit in the door. The magnet is to wide to fit through the factory speaker hole in the door and I am worried that if I build an adapter the cone will hit the inside of the door panel. Did you run into this problem with your build?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

mino922 said:


> I am finally making some changes to my TSX and I am upgrading to a set of Audison Voce AVK6s and a JL XD700/5. I am running into an issue getting the mid bass driver to fit in the door. The magnet is to wide to fit through the factory speaker hole in the door and I am worried that if I build an adapter the cone will hit the inside of the door panel. Did you run into this problem with your build?


I cut the hole in the door to match the inner diameter of the mounting ring on the speaker, if that makes sense. Basically just used a piece of cardboard to cut a template, made sure the speaker would fit flush inside the cutout, then placed the cardboard centered on the door speaker hole and traced the inside with a marker. Took maybe 10-15 min to cut each hole since I kept having to replace the stupid cutting discs.


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## mino922 (Oct 8, 2010)

What tool did you use?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

mino922 said:


> What tool did you use?


A dremel.


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## Shane (Oct 8, 2009)

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but I've got these same DC amps and I've had a similar experience with them, but John has been great and helped out very much. I now have two DC 1100.1's to each power my JL 12" sub (I've got 2 subs). 

I experienced the Tone-of-Death with the DC1004 but that was fixed. 
Q: where did you put your settings on the transmitters? At 0db? 6 db?


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## Shane (Oct 8, 2009)

Would you buy the ID MAX subs again? I'm considering getting rid of the JL Audio 12w3v2 subs that I have as they only handle about 30hp, and I'm putting about 900w each to them. (I just got the second DC 1100. 1 a few days ago).


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Shane said:


> I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but I've got these same DC amps and I've had a similar experience with them, but John has been great and helped out very much. I now have two DC 1100.1's to each power my JL 12" sub (I've got 2 subs).
> 
> I experienced the Tone-of-Death with the DC1004 but that was fixed.
> Q: where did you put your settings on the transmitters? At 0db? 6 db?


I'm actually only having a problem from the 350.2, the 500.1 has been 100%. I have them set @6db which would put my input at 10V MAX, within spec. I also have the amp set at -12db, which is only 1/4 power. From my conversation with John after having him look at the amp, he thinks that one of the speakers is malfunctioning when in use or vibrations are causing a very brief short or something similar. According to him, if each component is connected directly to the amp, the short protection will function properly and it will just cut out. If I have the speakers behind a passive crossover, however (which I do), and a short occurs, the amplifier won't protect and will sound like very loud microphone feedback for a split second until it eventually goes into full oscillation (sound of death)... this behavior is what I've experienced but I don't know the cause of it yet. I was going to troubleshoot this Friday... unfortunately, my alternator failed and I had to order a new one. I was supposed to get it Saturday but someone dropped the ball and I won't get it until Thursday now. I'm pretty certain it had nothing to do with my stereo but I went ahead and ordered one that is rated 25A higher than the stock alternator. For some reason NAPA stocks a 130A alternator for my car while AZ, Advanced, etc. have 110A. When I called Acura to find out what the stock output was (105Amp) they happen to let me know they've encountered problems with the ground to chassis wiring so I'll be making a new cable for that and hopefully that'll prevent any future problems.


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## Shane (Oct 8, 2009)

I used passive crossovers for the longest time until recently and switched to active, especially since I have the Pioneer 80prs HU, which I think you have as well. I can't recommend enough to get rid of the passive crossovers and go active. It will give you a bit more power and with the 80prs, it's extremely easy to set up. 

You're right about the Tone-of-Death only a problem with the multi channel amps. I never experienced it with the mono DC 'S that I have. 

Thanks for the suggestions with how you set up you're transmitters. Much appreciated !


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

hows it coming along?


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

shutmdown said:


> hows it coming along?


I've been dragging my feet just a bit on the actual audio end. I replaced the alternator and everything is fine there, except I noticed that my car wants to idle at 600rpm rather than 800rpm (spec). Wouldn't be a big deal other than there's a 40A difference in alternator output at those speeds! So, I plan to clean the throttle body and IAC. If that doesn't raise the idle, I may call the dealer and see if they can raise the idle through the ECU or whatever. Next 'issue' I want to fix is the Electronic Load Detection. The alternator puts out around 14.5V on a cold start for about 5 minutes then drops to 12.3-12.5V. Once the voltage dips below 12V, the ECU tells the alternator to output full and it'll bump back up to 13.8ish for about 10 seconds to 'top off' the battery and then drop back to 12.3ish. The only other time it outputs higher is if something like AC, rear defrost, headlights, basically anything require significant power that talks to the ECU (not my stereo) is turned on. This is absolute garbage and I hate whomever came up with this. I've researched how to bypass this and I'll likely be performing this mod in the next couple of weeks so I get constant 14.5V.

I haven't really started troubleshooting the amp/speaker situation just yet but will soon. Until I get my charging situation under control, I likely won't run the amp even if I do get it worked out. Since I've replaced the alternator, I've even had output to the subs off. When I had the head unit out to wire the amp accessory wire into the 80PRS rather than the ignition acc wire, I went ahead sanded down the mount I made and refinished it with some satin clear.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Looks nice damn man you have just had hell with this build.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Looks nice damn man you have just had hell with this build.


Yea **** happens sometimes. Unfortunately... it keeps coming lol. I tested the drivers side speakers on the left channel and got the sound of death pretty near instantly and at VERY low volume. Then i disconnected and connected the passenger side speakers to the right channel. I was actually able to crank the volume up fairly loud and I did this for several minutes with no problems. It was getting dark so I decided to wait until tomorrow for further testing. So for now, it does seem to either be one of the drivers side speakers, crossover, left input, or left channel on amp. That is the good news... the bad news is that I disconnected the input to the amp so I wouldn't have any surprises on the way to work in the morning but I left the right speaker connected. When I turned the key to on, it should have been quiet (fade to full front, no rear), but I get a pleasant little buzzing sound from the connected speaker... like an electric fence. The light transformer noise that can be heard at the amp is actually making its way into the output. Keep in mind this is with NO input connected and the car is not running. Needless to say, I've sent John another email.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Holly **** man this make me nervous about my install with my dc amps using the factory head. But lots of people have done it.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I just realized something! In an earlier post I had mentioned that I was using my phone as head unit while I waited on the 80PRS to come in... And I was confused why I wouldn't have any problems with using phone as music source but did have a problem with the 80PRS. Well what I just realized is I'm fairly certain that I swapped the factory tweets at the same time I put in the new HU. This would mean that the problem is almost certainly the driver side tweeter! EASY fix... Still have transformer buzz though so hopefully they'll fix that.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Kick ass man ! I hope it works!


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

I troubleshooted a bit more today, starting with removing the drivers side ID tweeter and rewiring the stock tweeter in. That was NOT the issue, and I got the bad sound within a second or two. So I decided to wire only the passenger side speakers to the left channel and this was a success, which meant it was not the amp, just like Zapco suggested. Since I knew it wasn't the drivers tweet, I decided to put the ID tweeter back and I disconnected the drivers mid/woofer from the crossover block and I left both passenger side components connected to the right channel. This also was a success in a short run but cranked up pretty loud. It started getting dark again so I'll pick up more on it tomorrow, but I now know it is either the driver side mid/woofer or the low pass filter on the the crossover that is causing the problem. I still have the faint buzzing at low volume though and haven't heard back from Zapco about that issue. I'm also hoping to work on bypassing the stupid "Electronic Load Detection" that keeps the alternator from always outputting 14.5V this weekend.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Why not try full active with factory speakers or some other cheapies so you don't kill the ID's


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Well it seems as if I may have FINALLY gotten the damn thing worked out. First thing I did was pull the door apart and pull the speaker out. When I pulled the speaker out, everything looked fine, no stray fibers, damage, etc. I disconnected it and connected it up to a 2 channel receiver that I have in my garage and it played with no problems. So at this point, I'm thinking it is the crossover. 

Before I re-mounted the speaker, as a precaution, I cut the plastic off the inside of the door that is supposed surround the speaker just in case it was actually pressing against it and preventing it from moving. I also folded some electrical tape over the sheet metal that would be anywhere near where the speaker wires are even though it didn't look like anything would touch.

After I remounted the speaker, I disconnected all of the wires from the crossovers and amps and only connected the 'suspect' mid/woofer through the low pass filter on the crossover. When I turned the stereo on... nothing. I swapped crossovers... still nothing. I pulled the speaker out of the door again and one of the crimp connectors had slid off the speaker terminal. Apparently one of the terminals supplied by ID was loose fitting and this _may_ have been the source of the problem. I took some pliers and tightened it up and it doesn't slip now. After getting that remounted, everything worked. Not sure which of the 3 fixes was the actual fix, but I don't even care!

The amp does still have the transformer noise and I'm still hoping to hear back from Zapco about that issue, but for now, everything works. Just have to tune it now.

I was also able to clean the throttle body in hopes of increasing the idle, but the idle still sits around 600-650 when in drive. In park, it idles at 800-850 which is what I want. I'm hoping to bypass the "ELD" next weekend so I get a constant 14.5V.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

Well I was able to bypass the Electronic Load Detection yesterday. I spent a bit of time looking at the schematics for my car and trying to locate the actual ELD module. As it turns out, it is in the fuse box under the hood but is not in the easily accessible part. It is actually in the underside of the fuse box. I had to disconnect the battery and the main wires coming into the fuse box, then unbolt the box from the car and pull the bottom cover off which isn't as easy as it sounds because there's very little slack from all the wires coming in. I was able to pull it off enough to reach my hand in and unplug the connector going into the ELD module... and voila, ELD 'bypassed'. As soon as I unplugged this and put everything back together I took the car for a drive and the voltage reading on the HU didn't drop below 14.1V, whereas before when the ELD kicked in, the voltage would drop as low as 11.9V. On top of that, my idle is about 100 RPM higher which corresponds to about 20A more capable output at idle.










Most of these details won't matter to most people but I'm just putting these details on here for anybody else that might have a TSX and want to know. The Alternator speed was calculated using a crank to alt pulley ratio of 2.45. The Acura TSX crank pulley is ~6.125" dia and the alternator pulley diameter is ~2.5". I've got an Amprobe DC current clamp probe that I plan to use sometime in the next few days to measure things like idle current draw, how much more the AC draws, the headlights, brake lights, windshield wipers, etc. so anyone with a TSX can get an idea of how much additional power they have on tap with what accessories on with the stock alternator. Of course I also plan to measure the current draw of the amps in the trunk with various tracks and volume levels


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Holly rabbit hole alice !! I am glad you found your problem! Your install is pretty and I am partial to zapco. So how's it sound?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Feel free to do that for my truck too. &#55357;&#56860;


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Holly rabbit hole alice !! I am glad you found your problem! Your install is pretty and I am partial to zapco. So how's it sound?


Sounds awesome so far aside from the low volume noise I get. I made sure to run the signal wires on opposite side of power wire down the car, but there is a chance that the noise/hum/buzz i'm picking up is where the speaker wires and extra slack in the power and ground wires have bunched up on the inside of my amp rack so I plan to pull that out and get it straightened out and hopefully eliminate the low volume noise. 

After that, I'm going to give a more thorough tune. Right now, i've set delays for each channel and adjusted the EQ by ear but I'm going to pull the deck back out and connect an RCA to 3.5mm cable to the AUX input on the head unit and run REW (REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software). Basically, I've got an SPL meter that I connect to the Mic In on my notebook and the headphone out connects to the AUX IN on the 80PRS. I'll load up the sound card and SPL meter calibration files and wedge the SPL meter in the headrest and the software will run a sweep and plot a graph. I can then make adjustments to flatten the response at the listening position. I figure I'll save this flat response as profile 1 and then if I wan to make tweaks to it I can save the adjustments to profile 2+. I'll post screen caps of the plots when I do this.

Oh, I'm also planning on going back over the finish of the enclosures with some 1000 and 1500 grit and polishing them up to a shine, then putting some LED lighting in the trunk (where they can't be directly seen) for an even white light when the lid is open.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Damn man I need find so sq nuts around me for help tuning when I am done.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

optimaprime said:


> Damn man I need find so sq nuts around me for help tuning when I am done.


Just pick up one of these Radio Shack 33-2050 meters: 33-2050 meter | eBay

Download the REW software and Radio Shack meter calibration files for it here for free (have to register): Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Then follow the directions to use here: Room EQ Wizard (REW) Information Index - Links | Guides | Technical Articles (PLEASE READ) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Pretty easy once you get it all set up. I mostly use it for my home stereo but it works in the car too.


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## eemichael83 (May 13, 2014)

As promised for anyone that has a TSX, here are some current draw measurements of basic functions. All measurements were recorded at a system voltage of ~14.3V. Also, keep in mind that the measurements fluctuated just a little, usually by around half an amp so measurements given are an average but very, very close. Each number given is how many Amps each function draws so if you're idling with the headlights on, it is drawing 14+12=~26A.

Idle (after warm): ~14A
Sidemarker lights and tail lights: ~5A
Headlights (with side markers and tails): ~12A
Radiator Fan: ~16.5A (spikes to ~36A at the instant it kicks on)
AC (Lowest blower setting): ~22.5A
AC (Highest blower setting): ~36.5A
----AC also spikes by ~+20A when it's fan first kicks on
Brakes Applied: ~11.5A
One Seat Heater (HI): ~6A
One Seat Heater (LO): ~2A
Rear Defrost: ~19A

I also got one of my enclosures wet sanded with 1000 and then 1500 grit. Then I used some rubbing compound and some polishing compound to shine it up. Looks MUCH better with the near glass finish. The only problem is that I sanded just a bit too deep on some of the hard edges and you can see primer instead of paint and clear. I've got some touchup paint that I'll paint on these areas and blend them in. There's only a few spots like this and they're pretty small.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

hows the build coming along?


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