# New Old School PCBs - Interest?



## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

I've been working on a few amps lately whose boards are just thrashed by repairs over the years.

I have been thinking about designing new replacement PCBs for some of these amps. Of course, they're not cheap to produce. The average PCB would run about $50-80 without parts, but would be designed to look exactly like the original, right down to the artwork and color. Even gold plated PCBs could be made (think Phoenix Gold or Audio Art).

Boards would need parts and be designed to work with modern equivalents (if the originals are discontinued). Of course, there might be legal ramifications - some of these companies are out of business but many are not. Maybe a legal eagle could chime in here...

It would be up to you to assemble them and install them in a heatsink. It's a lot of work and a lot of risk which is keeping me back a smidgeon. It all boils down to what kind of response I receive. If you think it's worth it....

I'm open to your ideas.


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

Considering most boards are probably made in China ,wether they are designed here or not, and the fact that yours would be low production alternatives I doubt
there would be any legal issues. Either way it is definitely interesting and would be a great way to upgrade and/or salvage some classic amps.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

we all know im an ADCOM junkie. but the final blow to most ADCOMs comes in the form of board damage!


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

I guess I got my answer!

NO!

Haha.


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

I think its a great idea, but I don't think you're going to make much money sadly.


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

bkjay said:


> I think its a great idea, but I don't think you're going to make much money sadly.


That is the secret to the universe! I lose money just walking by a car, let alone when I start poking around under the hood.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

bkjay said:


> I think its a great idea, but I don't think you're going to make much money sadly.


Well, I know I wouldn't make much from it. It was mainly a cottage industry idea to get some of these long-destroyed PCBs available.

Then again, I could just supply an entire replacement PCB with parts kind of like what they did for Dynaco kits and Zenith TVs back in the day.

Chad would know what I'm talking about.


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## spooney (Nov 5, 2010)

I like the idea but the market is so small that I don't think you would ever make a buck if thats what your intentions are


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

wheelieking71 said:


> we all know im an ADCOM junkie. but the final blow to most ADCOMs comes in the form of board damage!



aint that the truth..lol....and yet they are AWESOME!!


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

spooney said:


> I like the idea but the market is so small that I don't think you would ever make a buck if thats what your intentions are


agree. But I'd definitely buy a couple of old LP boards.

I imagine the board design itself would be intellectual property, though you might be able to license it fairly cheap.


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## marathonjon (Sep 20, 2011)

I've built a few diy vintage compressors etc. I think its a great idea. Actually you could make a few buck if u find a way to:

A: market to the few remaining repair shops

B: offer a kit (make it parts optional or included)

C: offer your limited runs of repair stock to the new Company name holders. (In case they want to reach out to older customers)



Side note:
post the idea on the prodigy diy forum (they have a user base that is waist deep this sort of activity although mostly vintage studio stuff) they have small run channels setup as well as a lot of other parts scouring resources.

I don't think you will have legal issues if you avoid using the logos and clearly state it as not being the original.


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## lanman31337 (May 16, 2011)

There's a lot of companies that all share the same board, so I don't think it would be a problem.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

lanman31337 said:


> There's a lot of companies that all share the same board, so I don't think it would be a problem.


That's the case today, but I'm talking 20 years ago - they were all quite different. 

I did the research - it doesn't seem like a viable project right now. There are already board manufacturers that will do this sort of thing as a service.


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## AKheathen (Sep 10, 2011)

um, why such a high price tag? that the final retail you estimate, or cost. i never immagined that it would be that high, personally. other than the gold boards, i've seen many that can be made off a standard print wash, from 20 years ago, that is...


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

AKheathen said:


> um, why such a high price tag? that the final retail you estimate, or cost. i never immagined that it would be that high, personally. other than the gold boards, i've seen many that can be made off a standard print wash, from 20 years ago, that is...


Retail.

PCBs that large aren't cheap. The CEM-1 boards might be, but I don't do anything that isn't FR-4. You also have to think about the short runs.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Aaron,
That's the whole rub isn't it.
Is there enough of us out there that need them?
Is there sufficient replacement board components available (i.e. PPI power supplies)?
If not, then what good is the board?
How many models will you cover?
Will you make the entire line?
Are you going to make improvements, upgrades?
Will it sound the same as a result (i.e. will you use the mylar caps that give the PPI's their special sound)?

Then there's the legal issues.
Some companies may not want you reproducing their boards since there might be a market for anniversary editions (i.e. Alpine 7909 HUs).
There's a re-emergence of the heavy hitter companies of the 80's-90's and it's only a matter of time before they dip into their classic pedigrees to help sell today's state of the art amps.

IMO, unless you can reproduce the entire amp (minus heatsink) dirt cheap, and not get sued, it doesn't make sense since the final outcome will always be looked at as less than original.
FWIW.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR

P.S. This is all because you've been working on those improperly repaired (screwed up) Soundstreams isn't it?


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Aaron,
> That's the whole rub isn't it.
> Is there enough of us out there that need them?
> Is there sufficient replacement board components available (i.e. PPI power supplies)?
> ...



This is a dead topic. I'm not doing it. I hope you understand before you write another mega-response. 

Kinda sorta...


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## AKheathen (Sep 10, 2011)

as for "copy-write infringement" you need not be concerned. as far as i know, no amp manufacturers have renewed in the granted 7, or 10year standard, which means that old designs are fair game. the logo, however is a revolving copy-write and should be looked into. as far as specific amp design, well you can see many old school amps come back to life in off-brand no-name amps, if you just give the cover a pop and match it up to the original. even current designs need to be either changed by 10, or 20%, depending, and it then becomes an original design. now, someone like me- i would look for that the board is made, then not sold, and clearanced at half that price, save for a few amps, which hold sentimental value for me to justify spending $80 on a board.


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