# Crossover point for tweeters and soundstage



## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

I have a question regarding the crossover points for tweeters. I am running passive, and dont really want to get into active at this time.

My current front speakers are DLS UP6i and the the xover point is 5K. SO most of the sound is coming from the midbass speakers and it makes the sound seem to come from low down. 

Would a set of speakers with a lower crossover to the tweeters make the soundstage appear to be higher? Speakers like the Hertz MLK165's have a crossover at 2500 and the DLS Iridiums are at 3800. 

Will this make a noticeable difference in the front soundstage by lowering the crossover point that much?

Are there any other components with low-ish crossover points?

thx


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

Speaker aiming and path distances can make up for placing drivers low.

Depending on how your tweeters are aimed, crossing them lower might not make that big of a difference.


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

falkenbd said:


> Speaker aiming and path distances can make up for placing drivers low.
> 
> Depending on how your tweeters are aimed, crossing them lower might not make that big of a difference.


They are in the factory locations, which Im not really looking to do any custom mounting positions, so Im trying to make the best of the factory location.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

The Premier TS-C720PRS has an xover point of 2.5khz IIRC, and the Alpine SPX-17PRO crosses at either 2khz or 2.5khz as well. Any particular reason you don't want to go active? Does the Eclipse HU you have give you the option? I'm not familiar with that model. You already have 4 channels of amplification, and even if you want to run rear speakers, picking up a PDX-2.150 for your mids would probably be cheaper than buying a new component set simply for the xover point. Just a thought.


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

mikey7182 said:


> The Premier TS-C720PRS has an xover point of 2.5khz IIRC, and the Alpine SPX-17PRO crosses at either 2khz or 2.5khz as well. Any particular reason you don't want to go active? Does the Eclipse HU you have give you the option? I'm not familiar with that model. You already have 4 channels of amplification, and even if you want to run rear speakers, picking up a PDX-2.150 for your mids would probably be cheaper than buying a new component set simply for the xover point. Just a thought.


I dont think the eclipse has the ability to do active. 
I already have two amps in my truck and I dont really have room for a third without a lot of custom work and I just dont want to go that route. So im ok with passives.

I was looking at the Alpine SPX Pro's but I could not find the crossover point listed anywhere in their specs? did I miss it?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm almost certain your 8445 can handle a 2-way active setup. The odds of gaining enough control by switching to another passive set to make any real difference seem pretty slim. Stock locations are limiting you as well.


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm almost certain your 8445 can handle a 2-way active setup. The odds of gaining enough control by switching to another passive set to make any real difference seem pretty slim. Stock locations are limiting you as well.


as far as I know the crossover one the eclipse is only a LP that crosses the front and rear up and the sub output down. 

I know everyone is all for active here, but I am really looking to just keep the passives for now and was trying to get opinions on making the best of the factory locations... I know its not the best, but even as it is I think my system sounds pretty darn good... I was just wondering if the crossover point to the tweeters would affect the soundstage?


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

mikey7182 said:


> The Premier TS-C720PRS has an xover point of 2.5khz IIRC, and the Alpine SPX-17PRO crosses at either 2khz or 2.5khz as well. Any particular reason you don't want to go active? Does the Eclipse HU you have give you the option? I'm not familiar with that model. You already have 4 channels of amplification, and even if you want to run rear speakers, picking up a PDX-2.150 for your mids would probably be cheaper than buying a new component set simply for the xover point. Just a thought.


The pioneers are crossed at 2K I just looked up their specs.
And I cant find crossover info for the Alpine SPX


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## traceywatts (Jun 2, 2008)

mattldm said:


> I have a question regarding the crossover points for tweeters. I am running passive, and dont really want to get into active at this time.
> 
> My current front speakers are DLS UP6i and the the xover point is 5K. SO most of the sound is coming from the midbass speakers and it makes the sound seem to come from low down.
> 
> ...


yes. if all other factors are equal, then a lower xover from mids to tweets should "shift" the sound source closer to the tweets location.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

mattldm said:


> The pioneers are crossed at 2K I just looked up their specs.
> And I cant find crossover info for the Alpine SPX


I've owned both sets... I want to say the Alpines are crossed at 2k as well. I just checked their site and DL'd the owner's manual, and couldn't find it. I remember seeing it somewhere though. The Fs on the tweeter is 800hz, so a 1.6khz xover point would be safe. I'd guess the passives use either a 1.8khz or 2khz point. I don't think it's any higher than that.


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## shaneb (Sep 30, 2008)

You could go with horns, and get a 800hz crossover point


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## candaddy (May 21, 2008)

mattldm said:


> They are in the factory locations, which Im not really looking to do any custom mounting positions, so Im trying to make the best of the factory location.


Moving those tweeters to the sail panels should help a lot if you were so inclined. IN the mean time, try wiring them out of phase (negative to positive and vice-versa) and see if that helps. I know that sounds like it should make no difference, but I'm betting you have sucky phase coherency between the mid and tweeter with the positioning you're currently using and going out of phase might actually bring it all into _acoustical_ phase. If that made sense to you.

I didn't read all the replies, so if someone already mentioned this it's my bad. :blush:


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

mikey7182 said:


> I've owned both sets... I want to say the Alpines are crossed at 2k as well. I just checked their site and DL'd the owner's manual, and couldn't find it. I remember seeing it somewhere though. The Fs on the tweeter is 800hz, so a 1.6khz xover point would be safe. I'd guess the passives use either a 1.8khz or 2khz point. I don't think it's any higher than that.


The FS on the DLS tweeter is 1400 so they should be able to handle a crossover of 2800 ish... makes me wonder why DLS designed the crossover with such a high point (5K)!?


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## MiniVanMan (Jun 28, 2005)

Guys, Fs is only a "general" indicator of where you can cross your tweeters over at, and I mean GENERAL. It makes no indication of what harmonic distortion you'll have, or other factors. Harmonic distortion being a huge one. Just because you can cross it low, doesn't mean it won't tear your head off when you do. 

Also, in your install, your tweeters are below shoulder level, aimed at your shoulders. 

Find a new location for your tweeters. If you want a high soundstage, you need to put that tweeter up high.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

mattldm said:


> The FS on the DLS tweeter is 1400 so they should be able to handle a crossover of 2800 ish... makes me wonder why DLS designed the crossover with such a high point (5K)!?


Because it sounds better at that point, lol. Less tweeter emphasis in the 3-4k region....harsh frequency range. Very few speaker companies are doing it today (hybrid clarus is another exception though).....back in the early 90s, many many comp sets and coaxes crossed in the 4-5k region....some even 7k. 

My suggestion is to try to temporarily mount the tweeter coaxial to the woofer to see how that sounds. 

I haven't found that stage height is necessarily related to speaker mounting height....every car, speaker, amp, EQ, crossover, etc. setup is different. My brother has coaxes low in the doors of his Integra, passive, run off an older PPi amp and stage height is just fine. 

This is where 3 ways in a car can work well....you can coax the woofer and the dome mid, and use a tweeter mounted up high crossed around 8-10k.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I tried the tweeter in several locations in my Focus and agree the a-pillar for a 2-way is the best possible solution. Also a higher x-over point made a difference mine are HP @ 5k 18db slope. 

When I ran mine passive in the a-pillar the x-over was 3.2k going up to 5k made a big difference. 

This was only my experince in my specific vehicle.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

My mids are at my ankles and tweets at the knees in my sierra. Stage height is at my neck but then again I'm a short german lol. Underside of the dash is most likely acting as a waveguide.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

FG79 said:


> My suggestion is to try to temporarily mount the tweeter coaxial to the woofer to see how that sounds.
> 
> This is where 3 ways in a car can work well....you can coax the woofer and the dome mid, and use a tweeter mounted up high crossed around 8-10k.


Your use of the term "coax" is perhaps not quite accurate...

Coaxial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And, in my personal experience, an "8-10k" x-over point from dome mid (2.5" or 3") to tweeter will not work effectively and is not a practical implementation of those drivers. I've owned and used the DLS, Dyn, and I currently have ATC domes.


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

I have been looking at the Image dynamics XS57 components lately and I have a few questions. My other concern, aside from the soundstage, is I would like more mid-bass in the front. I have my doors fully deadened and sealed but I dont get much kick from the DLS UP6i mids.

















I was thinking that the larger speaker cone on the xs57 would give me more of a kick in the midbass dept.?!

Is anyone here running the xs57's?
Does anyone know the crossover points on the xs57's?

I emailed ID a week ago and have not heard back from them


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## mattldm (Apr 27, 2006)

anyone with info on the XS57's??


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## seddon (Apr 1, 2008)

Why don't you just experiment with tweeter placement. I did I like the tweets down low. Here is my setup. Didn't rear all the replies. Also the tweets can be crossed lower than 5k. I have the Iridium 3 way.


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