# Initial Impressions: Alpine 9833, Alpine Spx-177r, ID10v3, PG Xenon 200.4



## daudi81 (Dec 31, 2005)

*Initial Impressions:Alpine 9833,Alpine Spx-177r,ID10v3,PG Xenon 200.4 *Update w/ pics*

Well, after a long 2 weeks of playing cat and mouse with the weather I finally got everything done in my Tacoma (2001 dbl cab). Front (and back) doors are fully sound deadened using Raammat BXT and ensolite and usage as per Rick's recommendations. 

Alpine 9833 - got a used one off fleebay for a too-good-to-pass-up price. I'm directly comparing this unit to my old eclipse 8445 that I had to sell recently. Initial thoughts: The eclipse looks and sounds better. Maybe I'm just used to the eclipse but the general user-friendliness of the eclipse unit is just plain better. Everything is easier and faster to get to. I'm also kind of annoyed that I have to take the 9833 out again to switch into 3-way mode when I'm ready (with the eclipse I just pressed a button). The xover and EQ sections on the 9833 are useable but nothing like the eclipse(I won't go into detail here). Pre-out output seems a little on the weak side, but again I'm comparing it to the eclipse, and we all know eclipse is famous for its high voltage outputs. Overall I think the value of the 9833 is excellent. I get the same features (added mp3 bonus) as my old eclipse at half the price. I'm taking a hit in user-friendliness and output voltage but for the $200 I spent for this unit, I must say its an excellent value. 

Next up - Alpine SPX-177r - These were a pain to get fit into my Tacoma (anyone with Tacomas can attest to that). Tweets are mounted in the A-pillars about 2" above the dash, mids are in doors of course. All-in-all I'm very pleased with the sound. I have very sensitive ears so I needed a mellow, non-harsh set, and I believe these are just right. My previous lpg26na tweets just didn't do it for me, too harsh for my tastes. I'm not sure why people claim these tweets don't have the "sparkle" of the lpgs, I couldn't disagree more. In fact I found them more "airy" with (dare I say) more detail than my previous lpg's - without the added harshness. Off-axis I'd say they are sub-par compared to the lpg's, not a huge deal as I think they are aimed well. I have to do more a/b comparisons but out of the box the SPX tweets are just a better tweeter IMO. The mids are a different story. I like midbass, I LOVE midbass. The SPX mids just don't deliver in the midbass arena. Anything below 80-100hz they are just well..weak (output wise). My old $10 pair of PE vifas can handle sub-80hz passages just as well, if not better. BUT - anything above 100hz they seem to be just as good and snappy as anything else I've heard (again, output wise). Midrange is very laid back and has a natural/warmth to it, without lacking clarity. 

ID10v3 - Had a custom .6 cu/ft enclosure built for me by Marv (he did an excellent job BTW). It fits right between the center console and back seat. Anyone with a dbl cab tacoma looking for a subwoofer solution contact Marv. Not much to say here. The sub is being fed 400 watts from the rear channels of my PG amp. For a $75 10" this sub gets down and dirty with good output. Very tight and musical subwoofer. I couldn't get this sub to sound sloppy, no matter what I threw at it. Albeit it didn't have near the low-end grunt of my previous 12" IDMAX, it was just as fast and just as musical (to my ears). I'm sure there are 10's that are louder than my ID10v3, but for the $75 I paid, I couldn't ask for much more. Good cheap bass here folks. 

*UPDATE 4-10-06*
After further listening of the ID10v3, I wasn't impressed with the output. It blended very well and sounded very musical but I couldn't get it to "bump" when I wanted to, like I could the IDMAX. I upped the gain ever so slightly and let it break in another 15-20hours. This made a HUGE difference, wow. This thing gets low and dirty and sounds amazing. It must be the small space needed to fill with bass, but compared to the IDMAX I had sitting in the trunk of my old car, this thing hits just as hard. The ID10v3 behind the seat in my tacoma vs the IDMAX in the trunk of my saturn...I'd take the ID10v3 combo any day. I haven't heard the ID10v3 in a trunk setup so I can't directly compare, but anyone looking to fill their truck with great cheap bass, I just don't see why anyone would look any further. Very impressed. 

PG xenon 200.4 - First off, this amp looks alot better in person. I thought the online pictures were kind of ugly, but when I got it, I changed my mind. Xover is fairly flexible. You can bandpass the channels, but your frequencies are limited to sub 500hz (IIRC). Not much to say here either, good cheap clean power. My only gripe is the gains need to be set fairly high to get any output from this amp. I'm not sure what PG was thinking when they designed the potentiometer on the gain control here, but someone dropped the ball. I've always known that gain controls are not linear, but this is a little ridiculous. Output sensitivity ranges from .2v-8v. The last 1/4 turn is where most of the control is at..kind of odd.

PICTURES










Pic of the 200.4...Looks better in person.









Drivers side door before ensolite (1-2 layers Raammat BXT inside metal of door and 2-3 layers of ensolite behind speaker, and 1-2 layers of Raammat BXT outside door layer with sheet metal covering the big holes).









Drivers Side door after Ensolite.









Passenger door incomplete, I took this so you can see the sheet metal used to cover up the big holes in the door.









Funny picture. The only modeling clay Walmart had was a multi-color kid pack. Same stuff but different colors.  









Custom sub enclosure for the ID10v3. Fits perfectly.


















Drivers side tweet. Aimed slighty up and forward. Forgot to put my panel back on in the sails. Oops!









Passenger side component set. Notice the hole in the door with the mid poking out...I'm fabricating some nice grills to cover up the mess!


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Excellent review of the spx-177r's. I definitely agree with your assesment of the tweeter and mid.


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

Great review. I wonder how close these new Peerless V Line Ring Radiators sound compared to the Type-X tweeter.

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=6910162.17057&pid=2124

Any pics of the install?


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

cam2Xrunner said:


> Great review. I wonder how close these new Peerless V Line Ring Radiators sound compared to the Type-X tweeter.
> 
> http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=6910162.17057&pid=2124
> 
> Any pics of the install?


the alpine type-x tweeter is the same as the "peerless V line" xt tweeter. The new peerless V line is the old vifa(that doesn't exsist anymore.) I dont know if alpine have theire own specs, but it is a neo version of the xt.


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## daudi81 (Dec 31, 2005)

cam2Xrunner - plenty of pics..how do I show em here?


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

Upload them to a host like www.photobucket.com It's free. Then copy the image URL and paste it into the








tab's. This button here-







will automatically do the IMG tabs, you just need to paste your URL of the image into the text bar.

You can also use the Attach Files option here as well.


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

hc_TK said:


> the alpine type-x tweeter is the same as the "peerless V line" xt tweeter. The new peerless V line is the old vifa(that doesn't exsist anymore.) I dont know if alpine have theire own specs, but it is a neo version of the xt.



Yep, I got a pair coming. Have you tried them yet?


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

cam2Xrunner said:


> Yep, I got a pair coming. Have you tried them yet?


Nope, but im planning to use it. you can buy (i think its pretty much) the same tweeter from madisound(?). the xt25 with neo driver, but the xt19 is supposed to be better for car use, becouse of a much better of axis response. So if you got enough space, the xt 19 would be better than the alpine and vifa(peerless v line)
Got the xt25 or xt19?


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## daudi81 (Dec 31, 2005)

I'll upload some pics later tonight.

Upon further listening I am liking the tweeters more and more. By far my favorite tweeter to date! This is definately a keeper. 

The mids aren't going to last long in my truck, I am sorry to say. I have to cross them over above 100hz to keep them from bottoming out on some songs. That is just unacceptable. I need a mid to play down to 60hz with authority that is at least as warm/clear sounding as the Alpine mid. Any suggestions??


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

> hc_HK
> the alpine type-x tweeter is the same as the "peerless V line" xt tweeter


This is incorrect. The alpine SPX _is_ a XT19 neo, not a XT25. The "new" XT25 neo at Madisound is made by Logic (Vifa China). Data on it can be found on Mark K's test site.
Daudi, I'm not suprised you like it. The Xt19 is an excellent driver. I chose it over some much more expensive tweeters (after measuring/listening tests) when I finalized my home speaker design a while back.

cheers,

AJ


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Seas CA18RNX/P, or if you have the cash W18NX-001.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

daudi81 said:


> I'll upload some pics later tonight.
> 
> Upon further listening I am liking the tweeters more and more. By far my favorite tweeter to date! This is definately a keeper.


Daudi: I'd like to see those pics if you have them. I'm curious to see how you mounted those Ring Radiator tweeters...


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

BodegaBay said:


> Daudi: I'd like to see those pics if you have them. I'm curious to see how you mounted those Ring Radiator tweeters...


x2 over here


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

AJinFLA said:


> This is incorrect. The alpine SPX _is_ a XT19 neo, not a XT25. The "new" XT25 neo at Madisound is made by Logic (Vifa China). Data on it can be found on Mark K's test site.
> Daudi, I'm not suprised you like it. The Xt19 is an excellent driver. I chose it over some much more expensive tweeters (after measuring/listening tests) when I finalized my home speaker design a while back.
> 
> cheers,
> ...


interesting. i thought they were the 25..
where can i find this Mark K's test site?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2006)

> interesting. i thought they were the 25..


As I have noted before when discussing the XT's, the "19" and "25" in the model# refers to the VC diameter. If you look at the Alpine spec sheet you will see the reference to a 19mm VC.


> where can i find this Mark K's test site?


  http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5
Look in the "Whats new" section.

Cheers,

AJ

here's a direct link if you're feeling lacadasical  : http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/logic_xt25/logic_xt25neo.htm


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## Ayrton (Jan 17, 2006)

I have a question that is related to the discussion of the Type X speakers. I admit I am a noob, so bear with me.

I have the 137R 5.25 Type X and I want to add a dedicated midbass speaker for a 3 way action. I have sitting here, my choice of Image Dynamics IDQ6 midbass drivers or the Alpine 17MB midbass drivers. I expect the ID to be better, but I plan to run them off the Alpine midbass passive crossovers. Should I expect any issues with this, or is there something entirely different I should be looking at?


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## Ayrton (Jan 17, 2006)

Anyone?

I have door panels waiting...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Try both and see how it sounds. That's the easiest way. AFAIK the Alpine crossover doesn't include a highpass filter for the mid/bass section.


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## Ayrton (Jan 17, 2006)

npdang said:


> Try both and see how it sounds.


Well yes that is the easiest, but the IDQ requires a larger ring, and I am in the middle of fabing up the door panels. I will just throw the IDQs in there and we will see.


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## daudi81 (Dec 31, 2005)

BodegaBay said:


> Daudi: I'd like to see those pics if you have them. I'm curious to see how you mounted those Ring Radiator tweeters...



Sorry about the pics guys. My wife has confiscated my dig camera and left it at work. I've been harrassing her to get it home so I can take more pics. I'll post them ASAP. 

Mounting them was easy though. They just sit in the a pillars a few inches above the dash, just like any other tweeter - nothing special.


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## nipponbiki (Jan 23, 2006)

Where could you buy this xt19 neo? Is it the same as what is on Madisound even though it doesn't say neo?


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## daudi81 (Dec 31, 2005)

Updated with pics and update of the ID10v3


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

Thx Daudi. I was interested to see how the Alpine looked when flushed mounted to the A-pillars.

BTW, how do you like the Ensolite? Any noticeable effects? I just ordered some to test it for myself...


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## daudi81 (Dec 31, 2005)

Oh, flush mounted. I plan on flush mounting them soon. I didn't want to go to all the work if I didn't like the tweeters. But I like them and will end up keeping them for a very long time, so flush it is!

I couldn't tell you about the difference in ensolite because I've never heard the mids w/ out the ensolite. As far as road noise it made a huge difference.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

daudi81 said:


> Oh, flush mounted. I plan on flush mounting them soon. I didn't want to go to all the work if I didn't like the tweeters...As far as road noise it made a huge difference.


Sorry, I meant to say "surface mount." Obviously one would need to make modifications to the pillars's metal frame and plastic trim to fit that tweeter depth for flush mounting. However, it was interesting to see the surface mount look on the pillars. Thx.

Interesting on the noise reduction using Ensolite. I'm curious if it will yield the same benefits for my Ford Escape (I already have extensive vibration dampening installed but that's more for speaker dampening).


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## TypeXMatrix (Jul 6, 2009)

The 117r and 137r sets are lower sensitivity than most so yeah you will probably get more bump with almost anything else in a door install. They are more for people who really like clean sound. That being said, why put it in the door? Return the set and buy a highly sensitive cheapo. It will bump.

Bottoming out at a high crossover? - It is your speaker box. Normally a door. It is not tuned for the driver and the frequency response will drop off before its true capabilities. Much like below tuning of a vented box. If tuned too high you lose alot of low end response. You can bottom out without hitting power limits If the crossover is set poorly as well. The rated power limits and the excursion are relative to running the driver in a suitable enclosure. Seal the box, with recommended volume, and keep it from vibrating. BAM

Want louder? Make everything else quieter. It's better than making everything including the rattle louder. The more rattle, the more output you've lost. Nothing but energy waves moving through air and either reflecting off or exciting/vibrating objects. Make your walls reflect it back and you get more bass. Align crossovers to avoid cancelation. When a sub and a midbass overlap out of phase the sound disappears. No matter how much you crank the midbass and make it move you will get poor output. Like water waves. When a Peak meets a trough...nothing. Two peaks meet, they add together in size. 

Hope that stuff helps at least 1 person. Theres a tonne more of course but it's a forum not a book. Have fun!


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