# 4) 12W7's 2 MMats D3000.05's



## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, how disgustingly loud and low can I get with this setup, should I decide to run it all in one system. The focus is SQL.

Can I get solidly into the mid 20's with sealed boxes? Looking for flat, smooth, tight, fast response, deep into the 20's as loud as it will go..

I know this question just lost me what little credibility I may have earned here. LOL!!


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## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

lust4sound said:


> Just out of curiosity, how disgustingly loud and low can I get with this setup, should I decide to run it all in one system. The focus is SQL.
> 
> Can I get solidly into the mid 20's with sealed boxes? Looking for flat, smooth, tight, fast response, deep into the 20's as loud as it will go..
> 
> I know this question just lost me what little credibility I may have earned here. LOL!!



your goal is only 120's? I'd guess easy 140's...

If you mean 20Hz extension, yes, but they roll off pretty quick past that. well, at least one driver does. with 4... it will still be pretty present.

I'm not a fan of the loud factor, but after working at 2 JL dealers, i've seen people do strange things with W7's (8 8W7's and 4 1000/1v.2's in a 4th Gen F-Body Camaro)


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

norcalsfinest said:


> your goal is only 120's? I'd guess easy 140's...
> 
> If you mean 20Hz extension, yes, but they roll off pretty quick past that. well, at least one driver does. with 4... it will still be pretty present.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the loud factor, but after working at 2 JL dealers, i've seen people do strange things with W7's (8 8W7's and 4 1000/1v.2's in a 4th Gen F-Body Camaro)


I seek 25HZ extension, solid, tight, fast, impacting, minimal rolloff from 24/26HZ to 80HZ.

Can vented boxes be made to sound as good as sealed?

I prefer sealed, but I haven't heard a sealed box that goes way down into the 20's with authority. They usually dip off in the 30's with a notable drop in output when reaching down into the 20's.

With enough power to back them, will they play solidly into the mid 20's in a sealed box, minimal rolloff?

This is for those electronic tracks that have such low frequency content. Forced bowel movements are the order for the day.

Goal is a system with superb SQ, with potent/overkill levels of sub bass when called upon/needed. 

From 24/26HZ to 80HZ, can a vented box be made to match a sealed box in terms of SQ?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

yes vented boxes can equal sq of sealed 

IF THE BOX IS DESIGNED AND BUILT CORRECTLY.

any miscalculation in the design or build may result in problems.

easier to go with sealed imo.

you have the power.


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

60ndown said:


> yes vented boxes can equal sq of sealed
> 
> IF THE BOX IS DESIGNED AND BUILT CORRECTLY.
> 
> ...


So with the amount of power I have on tap, a sealed box would give me the low extension?

The graph I'm seeing on Winisd seems to dictate that a great deal of EQing would be necessary, I'm assuming the graph is just a rough ballpark, and it will also differ from vehicle to vehicle?

Do you guys know how to cut copy or paste the graphs generated by winisd for posting here? I wanted to show what I'm getting and hopefully receive some instructions on what it is that I am looking at, what I should be looking for.

For example, I show a flat curve from 22HZ all the way past 100HZ right on the 0 DB line when the 2 drivers are configured isobaric in a smallish 2CF enclosure tuned to 22HZ. But I am told that this is basically a waste of a driver, old school tech, also very difficult to do with W7's. 

To get something that closely resembles that in normal vented config, I am looking at a box that is in excess of 9CF, thats with 2 drivers. Even then, the response curve is like a giant arc. (This is going by memory, I would have to double check to be sure)

If I could get an online tutorial on what the response curves mean, and how they will affect overall sound, that would be awesome.

I taught myself to use the program, just not sure how the resulting graphs would translate to real world applications.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Using WinISD will graph sealed boxes correctly but they do not show what will happen in a vehicle. Because of the transfer function you will get quite a bit of low end extension.


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## s60rguy (Feb 14, 2007)

You should get D3000.1's. The pair of W7's are only going to get down to 1.5ohms when wired together. They are going to want more Power than a .05 is gonna put out at 1.5ohms. 

Get a .1 and you'll have considerably more Power to play with.

FWIW...I had 3 13w7's with 1 MMATS 2200.05 per Sub in a Sealed Box with such a low Internal Volume, after Displacement, it couldn't have been over .50cu/ft per sub. But DAMN did that thing drop like a MoFo. I did a 155 @ 46hz with that setup.


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

s60rguy said:


> You should get D3000.1's. The pair of W7's are only going to get down to 1.5ohms when wired together. They are going to want more Power than a .05 is gonna put out at 1.5ohms.
> 
> Get a .1 and you'll have considerably more Power to play with.
> 
> FWIW...I had 3 13w7's with 1 MMATS 2200.05 per Sub in a Sealed Box with such a low Internal Volume, after Displacement, it couldn't have been over .50cu/ft per sub. But DAMN did that thing drop like a MoFo. I did a 155 @ 46hz with that setup.


 Thanks for the info, I was aware of that, was hoping that the Mmats would still provide the JL's with enough power. 

The problem is, I already own the pair of MMats, just picked up a pair JL's dirt cheap so I couldn't pass them up. I was looking into another pair, but I am reconsidering. There are so many choices out there, what to buy??!! 

BTW, a key motivating factor for me is cheap, pre owned. But for subs, I may just go ahead and pull the trigger on something new, something that works best for my application..

Anyone interested in a pair of MINT JL 12W7's?


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

4 12s in a bigass ported box with 6000watts on tap?? 

I'd forget about W7s... I'd look to DD. And forget about four 12s... I'd go with two 15s. DD9515Gs to be precise. In 6-7 cubic feet tuned to 35Hz be ready for mid 150s if built properly. And 9500 woofers are amazingly clean no matter how loud they get.... they're SPL world record holders, but many an SQ car has crossed through the IASCA lanes with a 9500 in the trunk... they sound AMAZING.


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

bigabe said:


> 4 12s in a bigass ported box with 6000watts on tap??
> 
> I'd forget about W7s... I'd look to DD. And forget about four 12s... I'd go with two 15s. DD9515Gs to be precise. In 6-7 cubic feet tuned to 35Hz be ready for mid 150s if built properly. And 9500 woofers are amazingly clean no matter how loud they get.... they're SPL world record holders, but many an SQ car has crossed through the IASCA lanes with a 9500 in the trunk... they sound AMAZING.


What kind of a response curve can I expect from a pair of these in 7 CF tuned to 35HZ?

Are you an SQ guy, SPL guy or both?


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

cubdenno said:


> Using WinISD will graph sealed boxes correctly but they do not show what will happen in a vehicle. Because of the transfer function you will get quite a bit of low end extension.


What's the best way to calculate Winisd response curve in relation to a real world application? What I mean is, after plugging numbers into Winisd or Bassbox, what does one look for in WINISD's simulated response curve in relation to the vehicle getting the sub section? 

For instance, my install will be in a Jeep Cherokee Laredo. In order to achieve flat response from let's say 100HZ on down to mid 20HZ extension, what am I looking 
for in terms of response curve on Winisd? How do I measure/calculate, then factor in the effect my vehicle will have on the final "Real World" response curve?

Or is it a simple matter of looking for the best response curve on Winisd then leaving the rest up to EQing, trial and error, once the system is installed? 

Or are there corrective measures/additional data to be plugged in to Winisd as per my vehicle and desired "Real World" response curve?

I looked around for this info, found some, but I have trouble comprehending some of the "Lingo" used in explaining the whole affair. 

Layman terms work best for me.. Not all of us are rocket scientists


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

lust4sound said:


> What's the best way to calculate Winisd response curve in relation to a real world application? What I mean is, after plugging numbers into Winisd or Bassbox, what does one look for as far as response curve for the vehicle getting the sub section?
> 
> For instance, my install will be in a Jeep Cherokee Laredo. What am I looking for in terms of response curve on Winisd? This in order to achieve flat response from let's say 100HZ on down to mid 20HZ extension? How do I measure/calculate the effect my vehicle will have on the final output response?
> 
> Do I look for the best response curve on Winisd then leave the rest up to EQing/trial and error once the system is installed? Or are there corrective measures/additional data to be plugged in to Winisd as per my vehicle and application?


peep this 



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Shroeder has never played the piano anywhere near my car and Snoopy has never driven it.
> 
> Here are some measured transfer functions.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38784&highlight=transfer+function


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

60ndown said:


> peep this
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38784&highlight=transfer+function


60!! My main man!! I knew I could count on you!! Now let me try to decipher, I'll get back to you with what I think it all means after I give it the thorough "once over" (God, the woods already burning)


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

Oh, OK. Thats simple enough.. Now I just need to get one of those cars so I know what I'm doing


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

lust4sound said:


> Oh, OK. Thats simple enough.. Now I just need to get one of those cars so I know what I'm doing


what vehicle you using?

car van bus bike?


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

lust4sound said:


> What kind of a response curve can I expect from a pair of these in 7 CF tuned to 35HZ?
> 
> Are you an SQ guy, SPL guy or both?



In the car, I'm a basshead. I like clean bass... but I like it loud and exaggerated as all hell... it's more fun that way to me. 

I don't compete in SPL or SQ competitions, I just like putting nice loudass stereos in my cars.


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

60ndown said:


> what vehicle you using?
> 
> car van bus bike?


Bike? LOL, yeah, mySportbike would perform well with a pair of JL's hanging off the side..

Jeep Cherokee, methinks, still a bit undecided. So many decisions to make. If I do the Jeep, my cargo room for hauling bass guitar gear is shot..

Too tired to think right now, 3 AM..

Catch up with this tomm..


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

60, taking this discussion to the other thread you linked in here. I think I may find my answers there..


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## Superpede1 (Nov 21, 2008)

lust4sound said:


> Anyone interested in a pair of MINT JL 12W7's?


How much? Will you sell just one?


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

Superpede1 said:


> How much? Will you sell just one?


Make an offer. A REALISTIC OFFER!! These speakers are like new, Look almost fresh out the box. I know they have very low hours of use on them, each was powered by a single JL/500..

PM if serious with a legit offer.


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## infamous_e46 (Dec 6, 2008)

are you dead set on getting w7's ???

if you just want to get loud sealed why not just get 4 13.5 w3v3's


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

infamous_e46 said:


> are you dead set on getting w7's ???
> 
> if you just want to get loud sealed why not just get 4 13.5 w3v3's


I already own a pair of 12W7's, almost picked up another pair of the same for $400..


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