# Budget set of drivers for ID Mini's



## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

A buddy of mine is going to experiment with running my spare set of ID Mini horns. I just don't have any spare drivers for him. He is looking for a pair of cheap drivers to get his feet wet. If they hook him (which I have NO doubt they will) he will be a lot more open to spending some cash on a better set.

Honestly I have no idea what I'm looking for. My fullsize ID's are running cd1Pros I believe. So I didn't need to source other drivers since those came as a set with my fullsize horns. Any ideas guys?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

PylePro - PDS111 - 1'' Neodymium/Titanium Screw On Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8'' x 18 TPI


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

So do you have to make an adapter to fit those to the horns? I don't think the ID mini's have that style of input. I belive they use bolt on style drivers.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

> Frequency Response:2000Hz-20KHz


Those have to be crossed high


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

chevbowtie22 said:


> So do you have to make an adapter to fit those to the horns? I don't think the ID mini's have that style of input. I belive they use bolt on style drivers.


Parts Express has adapters.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

edzyy said:


> Those have to be crossed high


I've crossed them as low as 1000hz and they've been good.


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

Selenium ADF25-25 Horn Adapter 264-322

Are these the adapters? If so I really think that is exactly what I need. 

So are you currently using those drivers now? How do they sound in relation to the price? I'm not expecting miracles but I'm always up for trying new drivers.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i have a pair of selenium d2200ti's i think? that's the model number,,, and the adapters. 

not sure how much they would go for, but i doubt i'll ever be using them since i have some BMS neo drivers. 

let me know if you are interested


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

I will for sure. I'm actually doing this for airseeker on here. He's been listening to my car and watching your build on the camaro and its been tearing at him to give a set a try. I just messaged him to see if he is interested in working something out with you.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

scratch that, i just looked and they are the 2500ti's ... i think they are what the Ultra's are based off of. still unsure of what they go for though...


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

chevbowtie22 said:


> Selenium ADF25-25 Horn Adapter 264-322
> 
> Are these the adapters? If so I really think that is exactly what I need.
> 
> So are you currently using those drivers now? How do they sound in relation to the price? I'm not expecting miracles but I'm always up for trying new drivers.


They lean more towards being a high sensitivity tweeter rather than a traditional horn driver. The advantage you have is that you're in a car environment which will give you an opportunity to go lower with your cover points without risking damage.

Overall, the sound was not as full as some other drivers, but the price they sale at makes it worth a shot.


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> scratch that, i just looked and they are the 2500ti's ... i think they are what the Ultra's are based off of. still unsure of what they go for though...


I see. I just did a quick search online and NO ONE has them for sale. Used or new so I wouldn't have any idea what to offer you. Since they were reported to be what the Ultra's were based off of I'm sure they are going to be out of his price range. I would love to hear what they sound like though. Lol. I appreciate the mention though.


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> They lean more towards being a high sensitivity tweeter rather than a traditional horn driver. The advantage you have is that you're in a car environment which will give you an opportunity to go lower with your cover points without risking damage.
> 
> Overall, the sound was not as full as some other drivers, but the price they sale at makes it worth a shot.


Ok. I'm sure he will probably lean more toward this direction at least for the initial tryouts but he will probably look into better drivers once he is hooked. Hell the more I look into other options I'm starting to think about trying out a few different sets.


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

I appreciate you starting this for me... lol, WHY DO YOU LIKE TO SPEND MY MONEY!! 

I think that is what you should do. You should experiment with different drivers, and you should let me use yours


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meh. I was bored. Not only that I really want to hear what those mini's will sound like in your car.

But in all seriousness it looks like you have some very cheap options once you grab the adapters that bassfromspace pointed out. It looks like its very possible to grab everything you need for less than $75 with shipping. Hell I might even grap a pair of those adapters just to test drivers on my setup.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ i know horns isn't for everyone (the dumb disclaimer...) but they really are. I say jump in both feet first and get started... you won't be disappointed unless you don't install them right  

good luck!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ i know horns isn't for everyone (the dumb disclaimer...) but they really are. I say jump in both feet first and get started... you won't be disappointed unless you don't install them right  

good luck!


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

well, currenty I am set up for 4way active.
Sub plays up to 100hz
8" plays from 100-250hz
4" plays from 250-2500hz
tweeter plays 2500+

We were thinking of changing over from tweeters to horns, backing the 4" down to 1200-2000 range and allowing horns to take over from there. I really cannot figure out what I want to do. My 4" and 8" are 8ohms, and can barely keep up with my 4ohm tweeters as it is. I would hate to end up with a horn that is completely overbearing and have to overload my amps for everything else. And I really don't want to have to upgrade to all PA drivers just on a hunch.

Does anyone have any horn drivers just laying around they would want to let me borrow for a week or so? I would pay shipping or if close enough I could pick up. If I liked them, I could either buy my own set, or buy them off of you. I would just hate to waste money on something if I didn't like it, or something that no-one would buy lol. Any particular thoughts? I know that is asking alot, especially for a newbie like me. But I do promise I would be careful


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

honestly, if you were going to go with horns, you would not need the 4" at all. ES horns can be crossed at 900-1200hz (depending on full size or mini)

good rule of thumb is at least 5-6x power for the midbass as for the horns. If the midbass get good and loud now, then you will just need less power for the horns.


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

What he is planning on is running the sub to 80, the 8" midbass from 80-200, and then using the 4" to go from 200 up to 1200 where the horns will take over.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

chevbowtie22 said:


> What he is planning on is running the sub to 80, the 8" midbass from 80-200, and then using the 4" to go from 200 up to 1200 where the horns will take over.


If he really wants to have a good feel of the horn's potential - lose the 4" when you try horns... Play the 8" up to 900Hz-1200Hz and bring the horns 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeap, ditch the 4s.

The D2500s weren't that expensive when new. Not as cheap as those Pyles, like $80-85 ea retail new.

I bet Eric can get you some of them.

What drivers will fit depends on which minihorn bodies you have.

Might look at the Celestion CDX1-1445s...they should fit the 1e bodies with some work.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

i have a pair of mildly(barely) used selenium d210Ti's ,i'd take 75.oo/pr. let me know.


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

Unfortunatly I cannot play my 8"s that high. They are actually behind me. That is why I have to keep them at 200-250 but definetly below 300hz to prevent localization. Kind of a sh*tty way of going about it, but I was trying to utilize stock locations as much as possible.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

airseeker said:


> Unfortunatly I cannot play my 8"s that high. They are actually behind me. That is why I have to keep them at 200-250 but definetly below 300hz to prevent localization. Kind of a sh*tty way of going about it, but I was trying to utilize stock locations as much as possible.


Then I wouldnt bother with horns, honestly. a 4" is never going to keep up with a 110+db 1w/1m horn.


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

That is honestly where I was with this, but chevbowtie22 is trying to get me to spend money for his curiosity lol. I like the sound of his horns and all, but his system was built around them. I started off building this traditional system and think it would be too hard to convert without changing almost everything around. I might order in some of the cheapest drivers I can find just to get an idea of what it might sound like, but I really don't want or care to spend the money to make the swap unless it is going to be a HUGE difference without changing everything.

Furthermore, from what it seems everyone who is running horns is having issues with sub bass keeping up because of how sensitive their front stage is without having massive amounts of cone area. Which again I do not care to take up that kind of space in my trunk because I need the room. And primarily is why I have built everything the way I have so far. Thanks guys tho for the help and information. If I do decide to pull the trigger and fiddle with it some, I will absolutely keep everyone updated on what it looks and sounds like.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

airseeker said:


> That is honestly where I was with this, but chevbowtie22 is trying to get me to spend money for his curiosity lol. I like the sound of his horns and all, but his system was built around them. I started off building this traditional system and think it would be too hard to convert without changing almost everything around. I might order in some of the cheapest drivers I can find just to get an idea of what it might sound like, but I really don't want or care to spend the money to make the swap unless it is going to be a HUGE difference without changing everything.


I think it will be a huge difference, might even be a difference you like  but you will need to get a good set of 6.5"-8" up front to blend those horns. with a 4", you would be pushing to the limits all the time and the horns would see 1/4 of a watt.


> Furthermore, from what it seems everyone who is running horns is having issues with sub bass keeping up because of how sensitive their front stage is without having massive amounts of cone area. Which again I do not care to take up that kind of space in my trunk because I need the room. And primarily is why I have built everything the way I have so far. Thanks guys tho for the help and information. If I do decide to pull the trigger and fiddle with it some, I will absolutely keep everyone updated on what it looks and sounds like.


that really depends on how loud you want it to be. I have 500watts to a pair of 15", but I barely push them. 150 watts to each 6.5" and 30 watts to the horns. The subs have no trouble keeping up (although it doesnt discredit your point about alot of cone area, lol )


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The trouble isn't with subs being able to keep up (unless you think a 6 is a real subwoofer)...it's the midbasses where you will run into (potential) problems.


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

minbari said:


> I think it will be a huge difference, might even be a difference you like  but you will need to get a good set of 6.5"-8" up front to blend those horns. with a 4", you would be pushing to the limits all the time and the horns would see 1/4 of a watt.
> 
> that really depends on how loud you want it to be. I have 500watts to a pair of 15", but I barely push them. 150 watts to each 6.5" and 30 watts to the horns. The subs have no trouble keeping up (although it doesnt discredit your point about alot of cone area, lol )


Lol, I do have the potential to turn the horns WAYY down through the p80rs, but probably not enough to get a quater watt.  

I might in the future, but I have just got this audio system up and running without even completely finishing what I have started. So wether it be moving my 8" up front (which MIGHT not be possible with this set in my doors) or investing in a set of 6.5" right now isn't exactly at the top of my to-do list.

yea lol, 2-15's is a little more than I am rocking. I have 1-12" IB at the moment so I am not exactly slamming. But, it is enough for what I need/want at the moment. I am new to this SQ world, I came from my last car which was more SPL, but no SPL monster. So, I want to get this up and running first, see how I like it, and once I become either A-bored with it, or B- feel like I need more, then it might be time to change.

I have toy'd with the idea of changing things around, but the wallet doesn't support my ideas and wants at the moment.


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> The trouble isn't with subs being able to keep up (unless you think a 6 is a real subwoofer)...it's the midbasses where you will run into (potential) problems.


I think I have read on here that the ratio should be 1/3/5 watts when running horns. I have enough amp power to support this theory, but at the moment I do not have the sub for it.

From messing with chevbotie22's setup, he is running a typeR 12" sealed with close to 6-800 watts to it I think, and it just cannot keep up. I had also built a box for a typeR 12" ported that we sat in his hatch just to see if that made a difference, and it really didn't. There was nothing that could really do to keep up either. 

I don't know. Once I get out of debt a little and have a little bit more money to throw around, this pipe dream might actually become a reality at some point. I know one thing I want to do is move my sub stage a little further forward in the car, because it is slightly localized rearward. My dream at the moment is to do 2-8" type R's where my 8" midbass are right now, move the 8" midbass up front or get a better set of 6.5" and do horns (or a 3"-1" a pillar). But at the moment my wife would go ballistic if I went hacking up something like my door, lol or did a-pillars (she really doesn't like that idea AT ALL) Since this car is only 1 yr old to me, she doesn't like me fiddling right away, that is why I am forced to stock locations at the moment.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

minbari said:


> Then I wouldnt bother with horns, honestly. a 4" is never going to keep up with a 110+db 1w/1m horn.


Yup, agreed - don't bother... 

Kelvin


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

airseeker said:


> I think I have read on here that the ratio should be 1/3/5 watts when running horns. I have enough amp power to support this theory, but at the moment I do not have the sub for it.


personally think 1/5/8 is better. 


> From messing with chevbotie22's setup, he is running a typeR 12" sealed with close to 6-800 watts to it I think, and it just cannot keep up. I had also built a box for a typeR 12" ported that we sat in his hatch just to see if that made a difference, and it really didn't. There was nothing that could really do to keep up either.


having not heard or seen it, hard to say. I find it hard to beelive that he couldnt get a nice mix unless he is giving the horns 150 watts or something ridiculous. I have 30W/ch to my horns and the gain is all the way down. 150w/ch to the 6.5" and the gain is half way. gives you an idea of the ratio needed.


> I don't know. Once I get out of debt a little and have a little bit more money to throw around, this pipe dream might actually become a reality at some point. I know one thing I want to do is move my sub stage a little further forward in the car, because it is slightly localized rearward. My dream at the moment is to do 2-8" type R's where my 8" midbass are right now, move the 8" midbass up front or get a better set of 6.5" and do horns (or a 3"-1" a pillar). But at the moment my wife would go ballistic if I went hacking up something like my door, lol or did a-pillars (she really doesn't like that idea AT ALL) Since this car is only 1 yr old to me, she doesn't like me fiddling right away, that is why I am forced to stock locations at the moment.


he he, my wife just rolled her eyes at me. tore my car apart and started installing in it 2 weeks after I had it. bought it new with 7 miles on it


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

minbari said:


> personally think 1/5/8 is better.


Good to know. Make things better If I ever decide to do a swap and make my way towards horns.



minbari said:


> having not heard or seen it, hard to say. I find it hard to beelive that he couldnt get a nice mix unless he is giving the horns 150 watts or something ridiculous. I have 30W/ch to my horns and the gain is all the way down. 150w/ch to the 6.5" and the gain is half way. gives you an idea of the ratio needed.


I honestly do not know what he is running to them, I will have to let him pipe up and give you the info on the power he is running to them.

And let me kind of change what I have said. He has bass (a little bit) while sitting still, but if you start rolling more than 5-10mph he loses it all, which we have attested to road noise cancellation, but it's a battle I never really cared fight if I don't have to.



minbari said:


> he he, my wife just rolled her eyes at me. tore my car apart and started installing in it 2 weeks after I had it. bought it new with 7 miles on it


Keep her Bro.
Lol, I started installing my stuff right away, but like I said, it is fairly mild. No major fabrication outside of losing the spare tire and building the false floor in the trunk. Wish I had an understanding wife that would let me start hacking apart brand new stuff lol.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

well it is MY car. she has her car and I am not allowed to touch it, lol. i did a fairly stealth install. unless you know what the horns looks like, you wouldnt know it has anything installed. (unless you peak in the trunk  )


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

minbari said:


> personally think 1/5/8 is better.


If he plans to do a horn/4"/8"/12" system - it should be more like 1/20/5/8 :surprised:

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Could be like Eric back in the day and do 1/9/9. With a Zapco Z600 stereo on the horns, and one bridged on each midbass and sub.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> If he plans to do a horn/4"/8"/12" system - it should be more like 1/20/5/8 :surprised:
> 
> Kelvin


I was still assuming he would get rid of the 4", lol.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I mean you can do the 4, but it will severly limit the dynamics and output of the whole system.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> I mean you can do the 4, but it will severly limit the dynamics and output of the whole system.


Yep... More so than the midbasses 

Kelvin


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

Wow this took off. Haha. 

I wouldn't say I'm pushing him to do this but I will admit to encouraging him. 



minbari said:


> having not heard or seen it, hard to say. I find it hard to beelive that he couldnt get a nice mix unless he is giving the horns 150 watts or something ridiculous. I have 30W/ch to my horns and the gain is all the way down. 150w/ch to the 6.5" and the gain is half way. gives you an idea of the ratio needed.


I'm running 30w to my horns with the gains all the way down as well. I don't believe its an issue with keeping up but more of a road noise/car accoustics problem. In fact I'm runing 30w to the horns, 150w to the MB400 8" in the doors (I honestly have no idea being as its a bridged Zuki Hybrid 5 channel), and somewhere around 650w to the Type R 12".

We know the 4's will severely limit the horns potential. This would merely be for a quick test to see. The issue is we have no one around here that has horns installed other than my car. Being as we don't have anyone else to really judge the "correctness" of my horn install its hard to get a feel for what these are truely capable of. Especially since I'm finding it VERY difficult to get the sound stage up because of reflection issues. I am basically installing horns in a glass bubble due to the targa top.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Low sound stage with horns could be from phasing problems, FR problems, and reflections usually off of the dash and windshield.

Is everything in phase at the seat? A voice track that says 'my voice is in phase, my voice is out of phase" is the key for that. I do each set of speakers seperately and then combine groups. Turn off t/a and EQ.

throw a towel or two on the top of the dash and see of that helps.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Low sound stage with horns could be from phasing problems, FR problems, and reflections usually off of the dash and windshield.
> 
> Is everything in phase at the seat? A voice track that says 'my voice is in phase, my voice is out of phase" is the key for that. I do each set of speakers seperately and then combine groups. Turn off t/a and EQ.
> 
> throw a towel or two on the top of the dash and see of that helps.


Yep... try that 

Kelvin


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Low sound stage with horns could be from phasing problems, FR problems, and reflections usually off of the dash and windshield.
> 
> Is everything in phase at the seat? A voice track that says 'my voice is in phase, my voice is out of phase" is the key for that. I do each set of speakers seperately and then combine groups. Turn off t/a and EQ.
> 
> throw a towel or two on the top of the dash and see of that helps.


I tried a few different phase setups and right now I get the best stage height with both horns in correct mechanical phase. Positive to positive is what I mean. The minute I put a towel above me covering my glass top the stage height jumped an easy 6".  So I might decide to upholster my targa to help but I really like having the clear top.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

If you guys are serious about trying the horns, I have a set of the old Illusion CH-1 motors you could borrow, they are a rebadged Radian PB 450. They are fairly big, so be forewarned...

Shipping would be from Canada, so it might be a little pricy...


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Could be like Eric back in the day and do 1/9/9. With a Zapco Z600 stereo on the horns, and one bridged on each midbass and sub.


That is a balanced system  and good for *feeling* a snare drum rim shot on the cheeks of your face.

Eric


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I've got a set of cd1pro drivers I'll check on when I get back home.


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

SQram said:


> If you guys are serious about trying the horns, I have a set of the old Illusion CH-1 motors you could borrow, they are a rebadged Radian PB 450. They are fairly big, so be forewarned...
> 
> Shipping would be from Canada, so it might be a little pricy...


Lol, I do appreciate that offer, let me do some digging around what shipping would be from Canada to Tennessee and I'll get back. Where is Canada are you? I do have a fair amount of space to work with as far as motor placement goes. But they might not fit the mini bodies I had planned to "test" with. I do thank you for the offer to loan them out.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The CH-1 drivers will not fit on the Mh horns that wrap around, they will fit on the MH horns that the driver mounts on perpendicular to the mouth though.

Eric


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

Eric Stevens said:


> The CH-1 drivers will not fit on the Mh horns that wrap around, they will fit on the MH horns that the driver mounts on perpendicular to the mouth though.
> 
> Eric


Well, thank you sir. That is some good info. What is your opinion on some budget drivers that will fit the horns that wrap around. OR for that fact, is there any particular driver that these were either A- specifically designed for, or B- work really well with?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

airseeker said:


> Well, thank you sir. That is some good info. What is your opinion on some budget drivers that will fit the horns that wrap around. OR for that fact, is there any particular driver that these were either A- specifically designed for, or B- work really well with?


I haven't studied the inexpensive drivers enough to make a recommendation. if you want to post data from something you are considering i will surely give my honest thoughts on it. I am pretty sure you can get a driver up to 4 inches in diameter on the wrap around style Mh horns maybe even a little more but you have to grind away some of the horn to do it.

These were designed to work with any 1" throat compression driver, i would look for something with at least a 35mm diaphragm and preferably 44mm. The mounting is 2ea 1/4 or 6mm bolts on a 3" spacing.

Eric


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

Eric Stevens said:


> I haven't studied the inexpensive drivers enough to make a recommendation. if you want to post data from something you are considering i will surely give my honest thoughts on it. I am pretty sure you can get a driver up to 4 inches in diameter on the wrap around style Mh horns maybe even a little more but you have to grind away some of the horn to do it.
> 
> These were designed to work with any 1" throat compression driver, i would look for something with at least a 35mm diaphragm and preferably 44mm. The mounting is 2ea 1/4 or 6mm bolts on a 3" spacing.
> 
> Eric


Thank you again sir. That at least put me in the realm of what to and not to buy to see if my current set up can at least keep up.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Any mid bass driver will work, its just a matter of how well and some other factors. The HLCD are very capable in output and dynamics with excellent SQ and if going to the trouble to integrate them rather than doing a simple deck and 4 set up its worth the cost and effort to get the best mid bass drivers within your budget.

Proper power distribution is just another thing like above, a small 4 x 50 amp will work for the horns and mid bass but why, with the difference in sensitivity best results are achieved with an extreme stagger to the power. That said I like 5 times more power to the mid bass or more, my cars are typically close to 10 time or more power to the mid bass than the HLCD.

I a single 12" subwoofer within its linear limits with 300 watts should be able to work nicely a pair of 6.5" mid bass with 150 watts each making it equal power. This requires that the 12 be in the right enclosure and installed in the correct position in the car. This is for a SQ tune with bottom end heavy enough to satisfy most. If your are a self proclaimed or even closet bass head then put the maximum power and sub quantity/size you can realistically and properly install in your vehicle.

Eric


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I guess it helps knowing a guy who builds speakers for a living when you are dumping 900 watts on each 8


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## airseeker (Nov 13, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> I guess it helps knowing a guy who builds speakers for a living when you are dumping 900 watts on each 8


Lol, most def.

Thanks again Eric.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> I guess it helps knowing a guy who builds speakers for a living when you are dumping 900 watts on each 8


Yeah I did have the easy replacement plan in effect.

It was fine for 45 minutes full tilt, minute 46 they were rather quiet all of a sudden. 

Eric


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Eric Stevens said:


> Yeah I did have the easy replacement plan in effect.
> 
> It was fine for 45 minutes full tilt, minute 46 they were rather quiet all of a sudden.
> 
> Eric


And probably a little smelly 

Sent from my motorola electrify using digital farts


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