# DFW High Noon: Tweeter Showdown



## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Today, 5 diyma members including myself met at my house today to listen to some tweeters. Megalomaniac (Mir), ~Magic_Man~(Joseph), Bassfromspace(Brian), and Azngotskills(Mark)...all brought something to help us listen to a very wide variety of tweeters.

At our disposal we had a Behringer active crossover, RTA, Crown XLS202, various laptops and of course the barrage of tweeters and two sets of midbass speakers.

The test list was as follows...
Vifa XT25TG (Polk variants)
Dayton DC28F-8 
HAT L1v2
Scan Speak D2904 (Alpine variants)
ADI Ceramic (Tang Band variants)
TBI (does that vendor still exist?)
Kimura (looked exactly like the Daytons)
Seas ER18RNX (Midbass duity)
Adair Extremis (Backup Midbass duity)


I had built some test boxes for the drivers in advance. The Seas mid's were in .25cft sealed enclosures that had the ability to attach a removable top baffle so we could easily swap out different tweeters quickly. It is hard to explain but the system worked out very well and swapping out the tweeters was a breeze. Hopefully Joseph will bless us with some pictures of the day so you all can get a visual.


I'll post comments about the happenings tomorrow. I just wanted to get this thread up so the guys have a place to post their thoughts on the drivers and the pictures.


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## daywalker (May 30, 2008)

subscribed


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Its OK guys, I couldnt have made it anyways... :disappointed::bigcry::disappointed:

Love to hear about the how the scans and the xt25s stack up



BTW, TBI still has website up, but vendor hasnt been on the site since Jan.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

the xt25s are low on the list. The Scans were okay but not great.


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

If I would of know about this I could of shiped you guys some of the tweeters I have sitting around to throw in the mix.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> the xt25s are low on the list. The Scans were okay but not great.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Too directional, narrow dispersion, and lacked top end clarity & shimmer.


The Scans have a really Dynaaudio sound to them, real warm and mellow, lacks top end as well. But they dont sound bad at all. They are the type of tweeter you could mount anywhere in the car/house and it wont sound like ass to me. I would consider these "lounge" speakers. They are playing but you dont worry about them. They are Chillaxed


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> Too directional, narrow dispersion, and lacked top end clarity & shimmer.
> 
> 
> The Scans have a really Dynaaudio sound to them, real warm and mellow, lacks top end as well. But they dont sound bad at all. They are the type of tweeter you could mount anywhere in the car/house and it wont sound like ass to me. I would consider these "lounge" speakers. They are playing but you dont worry about them. They are Chillaxed


Fair enough. How did you like em compared to the Vifas you had for so long?

Are you guys planning on a full listing/ranking individually, or a post with an overall ranking for the day?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

This review I’m about to post is a direct reflection of my OPINIONS! It is not fact nor do am I attempting to pass it off as such. I’m simply stating what I my observations were and how I think they apply. Blah blah, legal bull ****….

*
The Rank According to ME* (the other guys will likely have their own opinions)
1)ADI Ceramic (Tang Band variants)
2)TBI (does that vendor still exist?)
3)HAT L1v2
4)Scan Speak D2904 (Alpine variants)
5)Kimura (looked exactly like the Daytons)
6)This is the gap represented from the Kimura to the Vifa….this is necessary 
7)Vifa XT25TG (Polk variants)
8)Dayton DC28F-8 

Our test rig was a pair of .25cft sealed enclosures with removable tweeter baffles made for the Seas mids. The power was [email protected] going to each tweeter and midbass. Our listening distance was about 7 feet from the source. We listened to a multitude of things throughout the day but our unofficial “reference” song for all the tweeters was Sierra Highways on The Sheffield Jazz Experience. 

The first up for testing was the *Daytons.* From the first note I heard out of these I could tell they were quite mellow. They were an 8ohm tweeter so we brought down the mids a bit to level things out. It helped a bit but I still thought these weren’t that detailed and were a little too laid back for my taste. These were tied with the Kimuras for the largest tweeter of the day. The large mounting flange and wide, deep motor structure make these basically impossible for use in a car. These were my least favorite tweeters of the day. 

The *HAT L1v2* tweeters were very nice but fell short of the ADI Ceramics in my opinion. In our test rig they had a little bit more of a laid back top end than the ceramics. I think this might be something that a lot of people would actually find favorable. My last set of tweeters in my car were the tweeters in the Focal 165V1 set. Some would say there were a bit bright but I really enjoyed them. I’m only mentioning that to give you all a reference to base my taste off of. These tweeters did fairly well off axis as well. They were a decent size for mounting in a vehicle too. These tweeters were the only ones we tested all day that had push terminals. It’s not a HUGE deal but it was certainly a nice touch. These weren’t very happy with a low crossover. I think they would do ok to about 2.5k but certainly no lower than that. At the end of the day Joseph put them back in his car and we fired up his system and did some listening. These were VERY nice in his car. They were very close to being on axis. I immediately asked him if he had EQ’d the top end up a bit in his car but he had it flat. He’d brought down the mids a bit but the top end response was set to zero. I thought they sounded fantastic in his car.

The *VifaXT25* we tested was actually a pair pulled from a Polk home audio test. When I hit play I couldn’t hear very much from behind the speakers. These were VERY directional and had extremely limited off axis response. Even when I was in the middle of the sound stage, perfectly on axis, I didn’t favor this set. I think my exact words were, “What the hell, I hate these!” The guys laughed at my slip in bluntness. I think I felt that way because I had really high hopes for this set of tweeters. I’d read some stuff about them and most people seemed to like them. It’s possible I’d hyped them up a bit in my mind and I was just disappointed. But, I had high expectations for the HAT’s and they lived up to it so I can’t say for sure. I might try to hear these again some time. The mounting flange is quite large. The cutout is also a bit tricky because the terminals stick out fairly far. While I thought this was the coolest looking tweeter of the day, cool points weren’t worth a damn in this comparison. Poor off axis response and a large required mounting area dropped this tweeter way down on my list.

The *Kimura* tweeters were something I’d never even heard of before Sunday morning. Mark surprised us with them and it was a good surprise. I don’t have ANY info on these tweeters so hopefully Mark will comment on them. One thing I will say is that they looked EXACTLY like the Daytons. This made me think they would sound the same too. Again, I was surprised, and for the better. Joseph noted that the dome material looked slightly different and I’m betting that had something to do with the sound difference they had over the Daytons. These had a decent amount of top end on them but I didn’t feel like they were as detailed. They weren’t sloppy though. Off axis response was similar to the HAT L1v2’s. Since they were identical (physically) to the Daytons, they were very large and will be hard to use in a vehicle. I noticed that the mounting flange was metal where as the Dayton flange was plastic. This makes me wonder just how similar, or rather how not similar, the two tweeters are. 

The *Scan Speak D2904* set we had were out of an Alpine F1 set. I think the Kimuras had better top end. I liked these about as much as the Kimuras but they were about half the size. This is why I ranked them above the Kimuras. Fairly shallow, small cutout and flange, and a protective grill as well; something the Kimuras didn’t have. I honestly don’t recall what type of off axis response these had but I also don’t recall any irregularities or drop offs as I walked into the sound stage. These tweeters had their terminals on the very rear of the motor structure which I’m sure would make things very easy in terms of the wires not getting in the way while you are trying to mount them in a small area.

Our last minute competitor came in the form of the *TBI* tweeters. Mir had pulled these from his car. I currently run these as well in my own car. We didn’t have a baffle cut for these so we had them set up on top of the baffle. The baffle we had all the tweeters in was 6x8.5 inch flat MDF. Oddly enough, I thought this was one of the better sounding tweeters we had during the day. Very detailed and a crisp top end. These were the most shallow tweeter we tested and I know (from experience) that they can be mounted almost anywhere. Great little tweeter. They don’t like being crossed over too low but they certainly do ok down to 2.5k which I think will be low enough for most users. These had a protective grill over them as well. Brian and Mir mentioned that they felt there was some separation between the mids and the tweeters. I think this might have been because the actual distance between the tweeter and the mid had been increased since the tweeter was on top of the baffle. My opinion on the TBI tweeters has always been that I liked them but I don’t think they were worth the $200 price tag. 

The ringer for us was the new *ADI Ceramic* dome tweeters. The moment I hit play, even though I was 180 degrees off axis (directly behind them), I already liked what I was hearing. As I joined the guys in the middle of the sound stage I was very much impressed. These tweeters were very detailed but not harsh in the least bit. They had that top end “sparkle” that we all crave so much. The chimes at the beginning of Sierra Highways were almost magical. And I mean magical to the point I half expected fairy dust to waft out of their little white ceramic domes. These tweeters were like a great cake. The substance was defined and the icing on the cake, the top end, was sweet but not overbearing. The off axis response was very good on these. One thing I’d like to note was that the lens that covers the tweeters seemed to affect the off axis response. With the lens placed vertically the horizontal dispersion was significantly increased. This could be used as an advantage in a car where on axis placement isn’t always possible. After the honeymoon period was over we decided to see how flexible it was with a different crossover setting. We brought it all the way down to 2k at a 12db slope with the mids at 1.6k with a 12db slope. The tweeter did fine playing down that low with respect to the lower end of the frequency spectrum. However, Brian and I both thought that the top end suffered a little bit when we brought down the crossover. Even with the crossover lowered we thought it still sounded very nice. I think the top end could be brought back with a little EQ help. The size of this tweeter also made it a good candidate for the car. The flange is a medium sized but the motor structure/rear chamber wasn’t as big as I had imagined (especially since it’s XBL). I will likely be ordering a set of these.

Final Summary
Currently I run the TBI tweeters in my car on axis. I think there is still some room for improvement on the top end. I think that the ADI Ceramics might be exactly what I’m looking for. These offer the flexibility of running a low crossover point so they could be used with a variety of mids. They offer great off axis response and they can be mounted fairly easily. At the moment I have no word on what pricing on these will be or even if they will be released so I can’t comment on that. Hopefully Dan will enlighten us on that topic 


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I know it's a long post....sorry


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

I may be asking too much:

Can you put in link or model numbers to the tweets without the model numbers, like the ADI Ceramic (datyon variant) and Kimura? I would like to look em up, and dayton has so much stuff...


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Thanks to all of you guys for taking the time to do this review as well as to Steven for taking the time to write out your thoughts. Very cool to see some "old school" type of reviews popping up on here again.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> I may be asking too much:
> 
> Can you put in link or model numbers to the tweets without the model numbers, like the ADI Ceramic (datyon variant) and Kimura? I would like to look em up, and dayton has so much stuff...


I got you Matt. Here ya go.

Daytons
Parts-Express.comayton DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter | tweeter dc28f-8 silk dome tweeter dome tweeter soft dome dayton audio dayton loudspeaker dayton dayton silky daytweet-41108

ADI Ceramic
CeraDome Tweeter

I really can't help you on the Kimura tweets though. I had to call Mark last night just to get the name. I didn't even know what they were called all day.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

More details please...

How did you level match the different tweeters? And, for specific comparison's sake, at some point, did you compare the tweeters using identical filters and crossover points?

Thank you for going to the effort of doing the test and, especially, for taking the time to share your findings with the rest of us. I always love seeing this sort of thing!


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

kevin k. said:


> More details please...
> 
> How did you level match the different tweeters? And, for specific comparison's sake, at some point, did you compare the tweeters using identical filters and crossover points?
> 
> Thank you for going to the effort of doing the test and, especially, for taking the time to share your findings with the rest of us. I always love seeing this sort of thing!


The tweeters all started with a crossover frequency of 3k. That was a filter that we thought was most appropriate for most car audio users. If, from manufacturer specs, we thought the tweeter could go lower we tried it. Level matching was done at the source and not at the amp and we did it by ear.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

ItalynStylion said:


> The tweeters all started with a crossover frequency of 3k. That was a filter that we thought was most appropriate for most car audio users. If, from manufacturer specs, we thought the tweeter could go lower we tried it. Level matching was done at the source and not at the amp and we did it by ear.


Thanks for your reply. 

I'm curious why you didn't use the rta and Behringer to establish perhaps a more accurate level matching?


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## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

thanks for the review guys! 

Whats the TB part number for the ADI variants?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

kevin k. said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I'm curious why you didn't use the rta and Behringer to establish perhaps a more accurate level matching?


We were having trouble getting all of our equipment to play nice together. Mir's amp was only a 2 channel amp and we didn't have the enough XLR connectors to get everything connected. The Bhringer was the piece I wanted to play with the most. I'm sad we didn't really get to use it. Maybe next time.


Really, yesterday the main objective was to listen to a **** ton of tweeters and keep the time in between listening sessions at a minimum. I think we succeeded in that respect. The quick change baffle allowed us to change tweeters within 2 minutes tops.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

BassBaller5 said:


> thanks for the review guys!
> 
> Whats the TB part number for the ADI variants?


I think this is the driver that the ADI's share similarities with.
Parts-Express.com:Tang Band 25-1719S 1" Ceramic Dome Tweeter | Tang Band 25-1719S tang band tb speakers dome tweeter ceramic dome hard dome non-metallic dome


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> I think this is the driver that the ADI's share similarities with.
> Parts-Express.com:Tang Band 25-1719S 1" Ceramic Dome Tweeter | Tang Band 25-1719S tang band tb speakers dome tweeter ceramic dome hard dome non-metallic dome


I think these are Spence's "never heard em boner" right now...



If only they werent so deep...


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Matt, I'm planning on trying them in my car later this week. If you'd like to hear them just let me know and we can meet up again.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Matt, I'm planning on trying them in my car later this week. If you'd like to hear them just let me know and we can meet up again.


Will do. I would like to hear em. Are you planning on them in the same spot as your TBI's? Will they fit, or are you making new pods?

I have mine installed, but I am finding a little bit of noise at high volumes, like the leads are touching or something. only on right side tweet, so I have some trouble shooting to play with...

Then I will begin working on a permanent sub solution for the car, which will probably take months...:worried:


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## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

very nice, and thanks to all that took the time to make this happen


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I concur with the order of Steven's list.

We'll be better prepared next time.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

for me I would bring the Hat down to where the Alpines are and bump the alpine up where Hat is on that list.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> for me I would bring the Hat down to where the Alpines are and bump the alpine up where Hat is on that list.


Is this due to your laid back preference?


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

no, Hat sounded slightly hollower, to me hat has its own unique sound that doesnt sound real to me, the alpines sounded tonally better.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

I think I still have a extra set of TBI laying around. Funny that some actually like them.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> no, Hat sounded slightly hollower, to me hat has its own unique sound that doesnt sound real to me, the alpines sounded tonally better.


Do you think a higher crossover would suit the HAT better? IIRC, they recommend a bit higher crossover, over 3k as a minimum...

Do you think that the tweet is better off even higher, with a good mid? 

Or just not your cup of tea?


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Could you guys go into specific detail on each tweeter? Did you guys try to take detailed notes? How long did you listen to each tweeter?

It's interesting that the TBI is ranked so high, and the comment on the highs was interesting. I like the TBI actually. It's a great "total package," however, it really doesn't excel at anything. The low end response is very nice though, great body. The top end frequency response is well extended and stays strong even heavily off-axis (a great quality in-car). It's just not amazing though. It's not terribly transparent. It has no top end sparkle. It just doesn't really do anything wrong. There's just no "omg these are amazing" sense from them.

I would have liked to see the old workhorse Seas neo tweeter as part of this test. I always think of it as the definitive measuring stick for most other tweeters.

It's good to see that the ADI was so well liked. I know it's been around of a number of years, and I really haven't heard anyone actually running them.  It's a shame because I have always expected them to be pretty good performers. ADI builds some nice stuff.

I don't get the TB <-> ADI relation. They are not the same thing.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

el_chupo_ said:


> I think these are Spence's "never heard em boner" right now...
> 
> 
> 
> If only they werent so deep...


I'm still considering trying a set. You all know my rant about "just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same" with the polks in the test a rare exception obviously. There was a hinting that Steven has tried the Tang ceramics and would like details on them just for better comparison to the adi tweets. I honestly could care less what the spence has a raging boner for as what I think will work best in the new truck is what counts:laugh:


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> Do you think a higher crossover would suit the HAT better? IIRC, they recommend a bit higher crossover, over 3k as a minimum...
> 
> Do you think that the tweet is better off even higher, with a good mid?
> 
> Or just not your cup of tea?


The higher crossover might help. When we jumped in Joseph's car I liked them much more. I think he had them crossed over a bit higher if I remember correctly.


mvw2 said:


> Could you guys go into specific detail on each tweeter? Did you guys try to take detailed notes? How long did you listen to each tweeter?
> 
> It's interesting that the TBI is ranked so high, and the comment on the highs was interesting. I like the TBI actually. It's a great "total package," however, it really doesn't excel at anything. The low end response is very nice though, great body. The top end frequency response is well extended and stays strong even heavily off-axis (a great quality in-car). It's just not amazing though. It's not terribly transparent. It has no top end sparkle. It just doesn't really do anything wrong. There's just no "omg these are amazing" sense from them.
> 
> ...


That is why I ranked the TBI's so favorably. They are a very flexible tweeter to work with. They were not the best sounding tweeter by any means but there was a lot that they did pretty darn well. I hate the mounting cups they give you though....they don't freakin fit! 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm still considering trying a set. You all know my rant about "just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same" with the polks in the test a rare exception obviously. There was a hinting that Steven has tried the Tang ceramics and would like details on them just for better comparison to the adi tweets. I honestly could care less what the spence has a raging boner for as what I think will work best in the new truck is what counts:laugh:


I've never tried the Tang Band ceramic tweeters but I'd like to hear them. The ADI Ceramic tweeters have a strong relation to Tang Band. How much relation I don't know. I know this because Dan told me. I also know this because they came in Tang Band boxes


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Can you guys clear up my confusion here...did you guys use the ADI CeraDome tweeter, or the Tang Band ceramic dome which was linked to in this thread, or something else? Which tweeter was used in the comparison? What evidence is there that the TB tweet is just like the ADI?


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Jsun: I believe they used the ADI, the one linked in post 13.

In post 19 Steven is linking the Tang Band tweet that is very similar.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Ok thanks! I checked the ADI website but there is no information on purchasing/price. I emailed the company and it seems like you need to order directly from them & they are not very forthcoming with the price. Anyone who has these ADI CeraDome tweeters have any info on where to get and what is a fair price? If they are much > $ than the TB tweets then I might withdraw my consideration.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> Jsun: I believe they used the ADI, the one linked in post 13.
> 
> In post 19 Steven is linking the Tang Band tweet that is very similar.


Yes, what Matt said. They are NOT the exact same. They are....similar


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

These do look quite do-able in a simple a-pillar pod. Might make a simple 2-way front-stage possible with a resilient door mid. I also like the idea that the vertical vs horizontal orientation of the cover allows some dispersion tweaking.


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> The first up for testing was the *Daytons.* From the first note I heard out of these I could tell they were quite mellow. They were an 8ohm tweeter so we brought down the mids a bit to level things out. It helped a bit but I still thought these weren’t that detailed and were a little too laid back for my taste. These were tied with the Kimuras for the largest tweeter of the day. The large mounting flange and wide, deep motor structure make these basically impossible for use in a car. These were my least favorite tweeters of the day.
> 


Hey thanks for taking the time to test all the tweeters out. I'm actually kinda dissappointed to hear about the Dayton tweeter specifically because I have 2 pairs in my a-pillars right now. I wasn't really able to get a good listening session with them since I sold my EQ/Xover the same day I installed them and had to take it out. I was wondering if you listened to them on or off axis, what the xover points you used were, how low you went with them, and how it faired in the very high end? Sorry for all the questions, I was just curious. Thanks


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

ItalynStylion said:


> I think this is the driver that the ADI's share similarities with.
> Parts-Express.com:Tang Band 25-1719S 1" Ceramic Dome Tweeter | Tang Band 25-1719S tang band tb speakers dome tweeter ceramic dome hard dome non-metallic dome


I wonder if TB would say if they were xbl tweets


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I wonder if TB would say if they were xbl tweets


I'd imagine they would be required to. The XBL technology is patented and owned by Dan.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

The ADI tweeter that wiggins sent came in a tangband box... thats why i keep calling them tang band. he is working closely with them


What I really want to do is order the non XBL version and compare the 2.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Megalomaniac said:


> The ADI tweeter that wiggins sent came in a tangband box... thats why i keep calling them tang band. he is working closely with them
> 
> 
> What I really want to do is order the non XBL version and compare the 2.


That WOULD make for a good comparison.


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Post not relevant,just checked latest updates.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Damn I wish I could have stayed to take a listen  Im glad you guys got to listen to a variety of tweeters all at once. Maybe next time we can be more prepared LOL


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## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

you guys had better bring the hat up to the top or Scott will come and chastise you. Know that it is coming. hehe


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

azngotskills said:


> Damn I wish I could have stayed to take a listen  Im glad you guys got to listen to a variety of tweeters all at once. Maybe next time we can be more prepared LOL


I still have your scans in the test boxes along with the tweeters. We can try them out when you come to pick up your stuff.



dejo said:


> you guys had better bring the hat up to the top or Scott will come and chastise you. Know that it is coming. hehe


That's fine. I rated each speaker based on my personal taste with respect to my perception. If anyone can convince me that I was wrong and that _*I*_ would enjoy a speaker less or more based on their ideals....they deserves a medal.


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## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for posting the comparo. Interesting results, especially since the TBIs were not considered that great by most reviewers. AFAIK, the ADI ceradome is an OEM product and has to be ordered in batches of 1,000 or more. The Tangband variant appears to be a licensed version of the ADI design.

One thing I would be interested in a comparo, to make it really fair, is to use an HU like the 880/800 and do an auto eq t/a before each listening session. The auto eq would put each tweeter on a more equal footing, because even for those without an 800/880, there is usually enough EQ present in an HU to compensate for each tweeter's quirks.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

I think you should keep the tweeters flat and expose their flaws, thats how you determine which it better from the start 

Also, asking an auto-eq to tune for you for consistency sake is a mistake IMO. Your settings will always be different for the same setup, at least slightly


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

I have a curious question....where all the tweeters well broken in. Some say it does not matter, and some say t does. I say if a tweeter can break in and you plan on owning well into "break in" why not allow them to be broken in before listen to get a true sound of the tweeters.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

unpredictableacts said:


> I have a curious question....where all the tweeters well broken in. Some say it does not matter, and some say t does. I say if a tweeter can break in and you plan on owning well into "break in" why not allow them to be broken in before listen to get a true sound of the tweeters.


My Tweeters took months to break in; sounded like crap until they did.


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## ~Magick_Man~ (Jul 11, 2006)

ItalynStylion said:


> Hopefully Joseph will bless us with some pictures of the day so you all can get a visual.


Sorry I haven't posted anything yet.
I have no idea where my camera cable is and I don't have an xd card reader.

The Rank According to ME
1)ADI Ceramic (Tang Band variants)
Great top end and over all a very nice sounding relatively efficient tweeter.
But based on how much the top end improved on my hat's once they went back into my car.
I am afraid they might be a bit much on the top without some eq taming.

2)HAT L1v2 ( i might be a bit biased since i use these in my car)
As stated the top end on these was not the greatest on the baffle.
But once you put them in a car it was a different story.
I guess it is a bit unfair to rate them based on how they sound in my car since i haven't heard most of the others in a car.
But like I said earlier I am a bit biased since I own them.

3)TBI (does that vendor still exist?)
Considering that I don't care for most hard dome tweeters I have heard.
I thought they were very nice.
I have heard them in 2 cars in addition to the test setup we had.
And personally they are a bit bright for me.
But having 1 ear pretty badly damaged by a revolver recently makes me not like real bright tweeters much.

4)Scan Speak D2904 (Alpine variants)
These were very laid back tweeters and over all not terribly impressing.
I have a feeling they would be similar to the hat's and improve significantly once they get into a car.
These are tweeters you could listen to for hours and not be bothered at all.

5)Kimura (looked exactly like the Daytons)
I am not sure exactly what the difference between these and the daytons is but I agree that these are better.
Another pretty laid back tweeter.

6)Dayton DC28F-8
This and the Kimura ane as stated almost identical except for the metal face plate on the Kimura.
And they sound very similar as well.
I did not notice a great deal of difference between the 2 and the Kimura only ranks slightly higher to me.

7)Vifa XT25TG (Polk variants)
Honestly I thought this was a pretty nice sounding tweeter that could use a bit of eq help on the top end.
The only reason I put it last is the extreme penalty for being more than a little off axis.
When you got about 45° off axis the top end was greatly reduced.
Which is not a huge deal in a car but since this one is a home theatre speaker.
there can only be a couple sweet spots where they play like intended.
and even though you "could" put them on axis in a car the humongous flange would make that more trouble than it is worth.


 :cwm13:


----------



## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

The only tweeters that were not broken in were the ADI tweeters. Those came from Dan and I have no idea if they were BNIB or if they had play time on them.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Jospeh, I was having the same thoughts about the ADI tweeter top end in a car. There is a chance it might be a little much considering how different your HAT's sounded in your sentra. One thing I was considering though was the distance your HAT's are from the listener. I recall your A-pillar locations being very close to the listener. I wonder if this had anything to do with it.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Babs said:


> These do look quite do-able in a simple a-pillar pod. Might make a simple 2-way front-stage possible with a resilient door mid. I also like the idea that the vertical vs horizontal orientation of the cover allows some dispersion tweaking.


Considering the fact I will be firing my tweets directly into the windshield could anyone go into detail about dispersion tweaking? In theory this could greatly reduce unwanted reflections. Idealy I will need a narrow dispersion to combat my installs shortcomings. Before anyone mentions modding the dash locations I'm just not into that and am willing to deal with what's coming to me especially if it can be manipulated by by a diffraction lens like what's on the tang/adi.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

If I understood the original post correctly about dispersion, the off axis response is better in the plane perpendicular to the (looking for the term here) grill cover bar thingy. So if you had the bar horizontal, vertical dispersion would be better, and vice versa.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Babs said:


> If I understood the original post correctly about dispersion, the off axis response is better in the plane perpendicular to the (looking for the term here) grill cover bar thingy. So if you had the bar horizontal, vertical dispersion would be better, and vice versa.


Yeppers.

The ADI's play low allowing a good blend between the mid and tweet.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Looks like I'll be leaving them in loose to see what kind of tweaking I can do.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Babs said:


> If I understood the original post correctly about dispersion, the off axis response is better in the plane perpendicular to the (looking for the term here) grill cover bar thingy. So if you had the bar horizontal, vertical dispersion would be better, and vice versa.


Yes, when looking a the tweeter, the lens is facing up and down, left and right dispersion is improved.

|
0
|

and vice versa when the lens is like -o-


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

on a side note. Those that were there, what did you think of the sample pack that Don sent from Sound Deadener Showdown(describe a little bit of every piece if you can)?


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Considering the fact I will be firing my tweets directly into the windshield could anyone go into detail about dispersion tweaking? In theory this could greatly reduce unwanted reflections. Idealy I will need a narrow dispersion to combat my installs shortcomings. Before anyone mentions modding the dash locations I'm just not into that and am willing to deal with what's coming to me especially if it can be manipulated by by a diffraction lens like what's on the tang/adi.



I _wonder_ if you could put a piece of foam on one side of the tweeter so that side doesnt hit the windshield as bad. It would have to be a foam that sound can pass through but still attenuates the high end. This way the side thats open can fire closer to you. You will have to turn the tweeter so the lense is -o- like that.

so it be like

Foam
-o-
this side is open.

or you could put the foam directly on the windshield right above it. Is there a decent dashmat for your truck made yet?


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## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

Hi all,

A little clarification. ADI is a "fabless speaker company"; we do the design, market development, procurement, logistics, etc. of a normal speaker company. The only thing we don't do is physically build the product. Much like Cirrus Logic designs, markets, sells chips but uses contract/OEM fab shops to actually make the chips.

We work with 25 factories around the world - China, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Italy, Spain, and the USA. We choose a given factory based upon what the product is (no factory is the best at everything) and what the client needs (delivery quantities, pricing, proximity, quality, etc). So where an ADI product comes from is completely dependent upon the client's needs.

We also do NOT sell retail OR consumer volumes - none. We are strictly OEM. We work with OEMs from small one-or-two man operations to Fortune 50 corporations. Only to others. So STOP ASKING how much, and when you can buy them - you can't, unless an OEM/brand wishes to offer these!

Now, about this specific tweeter - we did develop it with TB and TB does make it. We did the motor (obviously) and the voice coil. The phase plug and dome shape are the results of a good 8 months of research/prototyping while working on a large OEM project for pro-sound. This was, in fact, one of the potential final options for that OEM, but ultimately they went with the copper beryllium design, rather than the ceramic design. So we offered the ceramic one out to OEMs.

The ceramic can be any color; white is used for the prototypes just because it really stands out! And those units had less than 1 hour run-time on them; they were essentially NIB (note that I am a firm believer that tweeters and mids tend to break in within a few minutes; if it takes months for your tweeters to break in, that's a sign your ears and perception are changing/breaking in, not the tweeter).

If you lower the XO, you will need to adjust the voicing of the system (XO or EQ). Spectral balance must be maintained; if you add more bottom end, you need to add more top end (this was known way back in the old Western Electric VOT days). So when you push the XO down to 1.6 kHz (4th order), you would need to add a bit more EQ to the top end to get the equivalent sparkle back; it will be flat with the XO as low as 1.2 kHz, but when you XO at 3 kHz more of the total energy from the tweeter is in the rising portion at the top, making it sound "brighter" than what you would hear if you pushed the XO down (make sense?).

Anyway, thanks to the DFW crew for giving them a shot, and find your favorite small brand and tell them to carry these things... (Yes, that is a shameless plug!)


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks Dan, that clears up the confusion I had... here I was emailing the CEO of ADI about wanting to buy a measly 2 drivers. 
I'll look to the TB drivers then for a possible purchase.


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## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

Well, I think there may be some interest stirred up in some of the small/midsize manufacturers for these things now. And of course, you could always ping Parts Express and ask them to carry the XBL variant!


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
A DIYMA branded tweeter, group buy?


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Hey Dan, again, thanks for the post. 

I have to ask, do you have much experience comparing the Tang Band version at Parts Express with your XBL version? 

If so, can you pinpoint any differences down?


And on a somewhat unrelated note: Can you drop the name of any OEM's that are using this tweet? Or if not in public, what about via PM? Even if they are offered in a bookshelf/tower I may want to try these in my parents new media room. 

Thanks,

Matt


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

TREETOP said:


> Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
> A DIYMA branded tweeter, group buy?


Thats up to Ant.


----------



## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

TREETOP said:


> Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
> A DIYMA branded tweeter, group buy?



If so, it would be the next forum boner.

Also, Matt's questions x2 for me...


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## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

Hi Matt,

The XBL version had a good 8-10 dB lower distortion level from about 1 kHz to 9 kHz. It's quite low, down 50+ dB at a relatively high output level (96 dB). That's extremely low. That, and a flat frequency response (literally flat) down to 800 Hz, and it's usable - compression (and THD) are low enough that - if you're careful with the total power - you can run these with a 1.2 kHz XO point. It's pretty wild to have a great-sounding 2 way speaker consisting of a 12" woofer and 1" dome tweeter!

Sorry, have to stay mum on who's using this tweeter. Some companies will let us talk about their relationship, others want to keep it completely silent. So we respect their wishes.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

DanWiggins said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> The XBL version had a good 8-10 dB lower distortion level from about 1 kHz to 9 kHz. It's quite low, down 50+ dB at a relatively high output level (96 dB). That's extremely low. That, and a flat frequency response (literally flat) down to 800 Hz, and it's usable - compression (and THD) are low enough that - if you're careful with the total power - you can run these with a 1.2 kHz XO point. It's pretty wild to have a great-sounding 2 way speaker consisting of a 12" woofer and 1" dome tweeter!
> 
> Sorry, have to stay mum on who's using this tweeter. Some companies will let us talk about their relationship, others want to keep it completely silent. So we respect their wishes.


That's sounding very impressive.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I wonder what the minimum quantity is for an order, I bet its pretty high like around 1000


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

The ADI is really a special tweeter.

Imagine a full body sound that can blend effortlessly with papercone mids, while retaining it's shimmer on the top end and you have the ADI.

It's a 50/50 combo of a soft and hard domed tweeter.

Steven,

Have you thrown it in the car yet?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> I _wonder_ if you could put a piece of foam on one side of the tweeter so that side doesnt hit the windshield as bad. It would have to be a foam that sound can pass through but still attenuates the high end. This way the side thats open can fire closer to you. You will have to turn the tweeter so the lense is -o- like that.
> 
> so it be like
> 
> ...


You might be on to something. You've definately opened my eyes to several tweaking possibilities to make this work. It's all going to come down to trial and error.

As for dashmats I think they're ugly as sin and my dash is completely redesigned and big enough for a skinny adult to sleep on. It's also symetrical with the exception of the rounded portion over the gauge cluster. 

One of my favorite mids to date is the Dayton rs180. It just has the sound I look for in a driver. If I can make a dash tweeter keep its manners down to 2khz I might be up for trying the rs180 for myself.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Care to enlighten us what you crazy Texas rodeo clowns where listenin' to during these evals? Or did I miss this?


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> Care to enlighten us what you crazy Texas rodeo clowns where listenin' to during these evals? Or did I miss this?


second post 

"Our test rig was a pair of .25cft sealed enclosures with removable tweeter baffles made for the Seas mids. The power was [email protected] going to each tweeter and midbass. Our listening distance was about 7 feet from the source. We listened to a multitude of things throughout the day but our unofficial “reference” song for all the tweeters was *Sierra Highways on The Sheffield Jazz Experience*."


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Fox, in my first post I mentioned that we listened to a variety of things but our "reference" song was Sierra Highways off The Sheffield Jazz Experience.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I had a chance to listen to them in the car tonight for about an hour. I taped them up in where my sail panels should be where my TBI tweeters would normally be. The ADI tweeters were about 2 inches closer to me than the TBI position that I am used to.

The left tweeter needed to be aimed a little more left and it would have been perfect but the right one was dead on. 

I lit them up and listened to them for a second and then IMMEDIATELY took the crossover down to 2k on the tweeters with the mids up to 1.6k. They took every bit of it and made it sound good. Crossed down that low, these tweeters really brought the sound stage up. Not only that, but my car sounded like it was twice as big.

I listened to the Focal discs mainly. The highs in "I've seen that Face Before" off the 5th Focal disc were disturbingly good. Very articulate and pure without sounding sterile.

The Pink Panther off the first Focal disc was quite amusing as well. The triangle normally is just....ill defined. Yet with these ADI's I found I could almost see the player hitting the triangle and quickly muting it.

War's "Low Rider" is a song I like to play sometimes for fun. The cow bell really throws the left stage way out. Then the toms come in and the rest of the song throws down. It's a great sampling of the entire frequency range. Here I found the cow bell sounded almost textured. As if I could hear the stick hitting the metal and dragging very briefly. The detail that these tweeters display is fantastic. 

I wish I could keep these....but sadly I have to send them to the next tester. Brandon, hope you enjoy them as much as I have!


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

ItalynStylion said:


> The tweeters all started with a crossover frequency of 3k. That was a filter that we thought was most appropriate for most car audio users. If, from manufacturer specs, we thought the tweeter could go lower we tried it. Level matching was done at the source and not at the amp and we did it by ear.


Which tweeters were in a baffle, and which weren't?

Were the tweeters recessed in said baffle?


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Let me just say this up front-
> 
> Everyone is going to think I'm a dick for posting this.
> 
> ...


I don't think you're being a "dick" and I'd like to thank you for pointing out specifically why "comparisons" can, at times, be so inaccurate. I asked at the beginning of this thread why the available rta (measurement software, etc) wasn't used, but pretty much left it alone after that and, in that respect, was not nearly as helpful to the advancement of information and learning in this forum as you were above. 

Btw, in case it's not obvious to everyone, I captured Patrick's original post and not his final decision after he had edited it. What he chose to ultimately post is what you see in his post.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

one persons tells us to not use an RTA the next one tells us we are an idiot for not using one jeez...


only 1 tweeter was not on a baffle, that was the HDSS


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

The tweeters (with the exception of the TBI's)were all mounted on the exact same size baffle and none of them were countersunk. All of the tweeter baffles were a 8x6 panel of MDF with the appropriate sized cutout for each tweeter. We made a pair of these baffles for each set of tweeters (yes that took me a while) so we could hot swap these quickly to minimize the time in between listening sessions. The TBI's did not have a baffle because they were a late arrival.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> The tweeters (with the exception of the TBI's)were all mounted on the exact same size baffle and none of them were countersunk. All of the tweeter baffles were a 8x6 panel of MDF with the appropriate sized cutout for each tweeter. We made a pair of these baffles for each set of tweeters (yes that took me a while) so we could hot swap these quickly to minimize the time in between listening sessions. The TBI's did not have a baffle because they were a late arrival.


Was the sensitivity the same with all the Tweeters tested?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Megalomaniac said:


> one persons tells us to not use an RTA the next one tells us we are an idiot for not using one jeez...
> 
> 
> only 1 tweeter was not on a baffle, that was the HDSS


I was thinking the same thing....MiniVanMan was an absolute nazi about us not using the RTA for anything.


Patrick, in response to your unavoidable ninja post, I specified in my first post that we were listening for the tweeter that we thought sounded best to us. Graphs are a great guide to get us started but I honestly could give a **** what they look like on the top end as long as I favor their sound more than another set of tweeters. 

You may remember a topic I mentioned a while back about which speaker you considered to be better; The revealing ultra flat playing speaker that reproduces EXACTLY what is fed to it, or the second speaker that may embellish on the original signal but is overall more pleasing to the listener. My conclusion, as it has always been, is to choose the driver that the listener derives the most pleasure from listening to. That's what we said we would do and that's what we did.


PS: You may have missed my post about how they sounded in the car. They were certainly better than the TBI tweeters that I had designed my system around.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

kevin k. said:


> I don't think you're being a "dick" and I'd like to thank you for pointing out specifically why "comparisons" can, at times, be so inaccurate. I asked at the beginning of this thread why the available rta (measurement software, etc) wasn't used, but pretty much left it alone after that and, in that respect, was not nearly as helpful to the advancement of information and learning in this forum as you were above.
> 
> Btw, in case it's not obvious to everyone, I captured Patrick's original post and not his final decision after he had edited it. What he chose to ultimately post is what you see in his post.


dang u are fast

i decided not to post my original thoughts because I'm starting to sound like Peter Aczel lately

i should let the kids have some fun and stop yelling at them all the time :worried:


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## geom_tol (Jul 9, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Patrick, in response to your unavoidable ninja post, I specified in my first post that we were listening for the tweeter that we thought sounded best to us. Graphs are a great guide to get us started but I honestly could give a **** what they look like on the top end as long as I favor their sound more than another set of tweeters.


The suggestion for measurements here is not to analyze the graphs, it is to set the output level of each tweeter as close as possible to match the woofer. It's very hard to do that accurately by ear.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I'd like to add some comments

I'm not sure this was to be considered a test,nor was it designed to be the "end-all" of testing. I'd consider this more of a listening session.

We had some equipment malfunction which necessitated a few changes. We did our best within the given parameters.

Steven asked, in a thread on here, about test methodology. He got alot of different input and came up with what he figured was the best solution, within reason. Technically, we could've built a specialized listening and testing room, but that's not realistic.

We were under some time constraints.

This is an ongoing process. A disclaimer should be added that states this. Again, this was not a definitive test and we now have a foundation to build upon for next time. We'll probaly miss somethings on that test as well and hopefully we'll learn and make improvements for the next time after that.

Sorry for the long post.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> I'd like to add some comments
> 
> I'm not sure this was to be considered a test,nor was it designed to be the "end-all" of testing. I'd consider this more of a listening session.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly. I'm going to refrain from commenting on the matter further because it seems to be a waste of time. From now on when I review products I'll keep the results to myself unless someone PM's me for my thoughts.


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## dalucifer (Oct 8, 2007)

I fired them up last night.. Going to do some more testing and will post a review.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

dalucifer said:


> I fired them up last night.. Going to do some more testing and will post a review.


Sweet Brandon, let us know what you think! Careful with what you call "tests" ROFL :laugh:


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## RowJoe (Nov 14, 2008)

I enjoyed the thread and couldn't care less if a couple people believe there were too many flaws. I know I've read other posts about tweets with nearly flat responses that didn't sound that great, like the Seas Neo. I'd rather have a tweeter that actually sounds nice to my ear, even if it doesn't look excellent on the graphs.


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

dalucifer said:


> I fired them up last night.. Going to do some more testing and will post a review.


cool. i'd like to take a listen, too.


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## dalucifer (Oct 8, 2007)

James Bang said:


> cool. i'd like to take a listen, too.


I'm sure you would!!


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## dalucifer (Oct 8, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Sweet Brandon, let us know what you think! Careful with what you call "tests" ROFL :laugh:


I think by test everyone means wall socket... 

To be honest, even with all the equipment in the world, end results are still subject imo.. All tests are flaud in one way or another... I know people will say use an rta, but who says the the mic will be properly calibrated? Best tools I can offer are my ears and my comrades ears...


----------



## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

I can't believe I missed the great posts in this thread! Argh! I would be interested in a group buy, so count me in if that happens. 

The ability to obtain these tweeters will make or break my next speaker build plan. I have my choice narrowed down to TWO possible designs. One involved this tweeter's low crossover point and high off-axis dropoff. The idea is to have a system with a perfect off-axis response pattern while still maintaining a low-distortion/high-ouput capability. This tweeter would be critical in any such design idea.

The other option I've chosen as a finalist would be to buy the source drivers that are in the best speaker system I've ever heard and adapt them to the car and using a very similar voicing on the crossover network to achieve a sound very close to the original home design's. 

The first thing to do is buy the raw drivers. Then they will sit and wait for all the other plans and budget to take shape.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

dalucifer said:


> I know people will say use an rta, but who says the the mic will be properly calibrated? Best tools I can offer are my ears and my comrades ears...


Well said.



tspence73 said:


> I
> 
> The first thing to do is buy the raw drivers. Then they will sit and wait for all the other plans and budget to take shape.


I'm in that position a lot.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Okay,

I have emailed Parts Express that I want the Tang Band XBL Ceramic Tweeter (product# 25-1766S). Please send similar emails if we want to order them. The look-a-like Tang Band ceramic tweet is already sold out. I think it will still get excellent off-axis dispersion but won't highpass as low as the modified XBL version.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

ItalynStylion said:


> Well said.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in that position a lot.


In this case, I still have a lot of acoustic treatment projects left to do and also a processor to buy before I'm ready to have the next speaker project done. But I see no reason to put off planning the best driver setup I can come up with. I would really like to hear these drivers first, but that will be unlikely, so I will trust the evaluation of others (which I'm not used to doing because I'm a skeptic at heart with any speakers I haven't heard myself).


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Steven, can you take a photos of my tweeters that came in for comparison sake, even if they are identical?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I do agree with Patrick about levels via RTA. But the test is done. Can't go back.

Thanks for your efforts, guys.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> Okay,
> 
> I have emailed Parts Express that I want the Tang Band XBL Ceramic Tweeter (product# 25-1766S). Please send similar emails if we want to order them. The look-a-like Tang Band ceramic tweet is already sold out. I think it will still get excellent off-axis dispersion but won't highpass as low as the modified XBL version.


Tang band doesnt make the xbl tweeter, I already talked directly to them, they dont make it, ADI makes the XBL tweet


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> I do agree with Patrick about levels via RTA. But the test is done. Can't go back.
> 
> Thanks for your efforts, guys.


your mom goes to college


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I got my ceramics with the grill and fs of 700hz installed finally and they're definately a nice well mannered tweet. They can be crossed low and have a pretty good topend. Other than that I'm gonna let Mir give his impressions since he's tried several tweets in the same locations in his car. I know it didn't take much to get mine leveled out.


----------



## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I got my ceramics with the grill and fs of 700hz installed finally and they're definately a nice well mannered tweet. They can be crossed low and have a pretty good topend. Other than that I'm gonna let Mir give his impressions since he's tried several tweets in the same locations in his car. I know it didn't take much to get mine leveled out.


Isnt yours different? I thought you got the one with larger chamber, and has a slight rolloff around 16khz

Parts-Express.com:Tang Band 25-1744S 1" Ceramic Dome Tweeter | Tang Band 25-1744S tang band tb speakers dome tweeter ceramic dome hard dome non-metallic dome


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> Isnt yours different? I thought you got the one with larger chamber, and has a slight rolloff around 16khz
> 
> Parts-Express.com:Tang Band 25-1744S 1" Ceramic Dome Tweeter | Tang Band 25-1744S tang band tb speakers dome tweeter ceramic dome hard dome non-metallic dome


Yeah mine have the larger chamber but wouldn't the sonic characteristics be similar? They also have a rise starting at 15k.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Mir, they look EXACTLY the same as the ADI's. I think the only difference is the XBL coil config. I'm thinking that they will sound nearly identical on the top end but just wont go as low. 

Should I bother Dan again to see if we can get these made? It's been about 5 days since I bugged him last


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

One thing I found out the hard was is the dome will dent and not spring back without sucking on the dome. Oh hell, I'm gonna get it for that:blush:


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

......wait for it


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

poo


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

i remember when i touched the dome of the xbl, steven nearly tore my hand off


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I'm always VERY delicate with speakers. Yet I always seem to get subs that are DOA. Kills me....


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## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

BeatsDownLow said:


> Tang band doesnt make the xbl tweeter, I already talked directly to them, they dont make it, ADI makes the XBL tweet


Just a quick correction: TB was the build-house we used for this tweeter (we're a fabless speaker factory; we use over two dozen build houses to make product) but it was our design. If there's enough interest, I'll go push PE and see if they want to carry it.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

DanWiggins said:


> If there's enough interest, I'll go push PE and see if they want to carry it.


Is there a petition we can sign or something?


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

TREETOP said:


> Is there a petition we can sign or something?


Amen!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm liking the tangs in the less than desirable locations they're in. Zero ear fatigue with these things.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm liking the tangs in the less than desirable locations they're in. Zero ear fatigue with these things.


Chris,

What do you have them crossed at?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> Chris,
> 
> What do you have them crossed at?


2500 24db. Need to flip the polarity at the amp but will need to cut the wires and do quick disconnects. I'm not about to pull the seat or any trim just to flip the polarity.


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## DanWiggins (Jun 15, 2005)

TREETOP said:


> Is there a petition we can sign or something?


Who's the PE rep that handles car audio? I used to know Darren Kuzma, but he went to Tymphany and has since moved on...


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

DanWiggins said:


> Who's the PE rep that handles car audio? I used to know Darren Kuzma, but he went to Tymphany and has since moved on...


I wonder if he owns this Kuzma,

Kuzma d.o.o.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Dude, Dan, if you can find someone to build them I'll sell them on my site Stereo Clarity
Please dear God just find someone to make them!


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

ItalynStylion said:


> Dude, Dan, if you can find someone to build them I'll sell them on my site Stereo Clarity
> Please dear God just find someone to make them!


Hey,

I've been in that house.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

DanWiggins said:


> Who's the PE rep that handles car audio? I used to know Darren Kuzma, but he went to Tymphany and has since moved on...


Kuzma is working for PE again

Darren Kuzma - LinkedIn

what's going on with Tymphany? Seems like they're dumping a lot of drivers lately. It was a bit odd to see Ken Kantor take them over back in the day.


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## appleyard (Apr 29, 2009)

Dan 
You better do because I'm going to buy them.


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## Rudy Jakubin (Mar 9, 2008)

appleyard said:


> Dan
> You better do because I'm going to buy them.


Put me on the list also.


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## appleyard (Apr 29, 2009)

Also a matching mids would be awesome


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

appleyard said:


> Also a matching mids would be awesome


the Seas Prestige seem to mesh perfect with them , buy em'

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...age-dynamics-vifa-morel-zapco-denon-seas.html


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I emailed Dan about them yesterday. Part of me hopes I'm not annoying him but part of me does.


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## splicer (Oct 4, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> One thing I found out the hard was is the dome will dent and not spring back without sucking on the dome. Oh hell, I'm gonna get it for that:blush:


Interesting. Ceramic doesn't dent, it cracks.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

splicer said:


> Interesting. Ceramic doesn't dent, it cracks.


if he pushed it in far enough it would crack, otherwise just dent like a tin can.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> if he pushed it in far enough it would crack, otherwise just dent like a tin can.


Mir did you hear me screaming profanities over there in Texass? Anyway here's the funny thing...the tweeter I messed up I tried to make the dome tear but couldn't with just my thumb rubbing it firmly. Kinda makes me wonder.


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## kelrog (Apr 11, 2009)

so has anyone been able to find some of the xbl's for purchase yet?


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

kelrog said:


> so has anyone been able to find some of the xbl's for purchase yet?



They are not for sale unless an OEM is willing to buy them.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

kelrog said:


> so has anyone been able to find some of the xbl's for purchase yet?


They have to be made before they can be bought.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

This was an enjoyable read. Thank you.

Yes, the V2's Fs is 1,600 Hz. I wouldn't push it much below 3,000 Hz. If there's ever a second test of tweeters, I'd love to send the L1 Pro, which is capable of sub-3,000 Hz tones.

Good to hear the V2's performed in the car. That's the ultimate compliment. 

Scott


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Scott Buwalda said:


> This was an enjoyable read. Thank you.
> 
> Yes, the V2's Fs is 1,600 Hz. I wouldn't push it much below 3,000 Hz. If there's ever a second test of tweeters, I'd love to send the L1 Pro, which is capable of sub-3,000 Hz tones.
> 
> ...


I enjoyed the testing. We should have another test here shortly.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Good to hear the V2's performed in the car. That's the ultimate compliment.
> 
> Scott


They certainly did what they were designed to do! 

We'd love to test out the L1Pro's. We have another set of prototype tweeters that are on the list for next time so I guess our list is starting out with 2 new additions. I'm not sure when we will all get together though. We will have to plan something out.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

i have some Scan Illuminators I can throw in to test  Also the Peerless HDS and Hiquophons....maybe this time I can acutally stay for the listening part


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> i have some Scan Illuminators I can throw in to test  Also the Peerless HDS and Hiquophons....maybe this time I can acutally stay for the listening part


I would be interested in seeing how the Illuminators stack up.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

New thread coming. We should have at least 2 new arrivals straight from the build house and at least 2 other new (to us) tweeters to test so far. If any other brands or people want to lend us a set of your tweeters please email me at [email protected]


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Alright,

Where's the XBL tweet dammit? I'm going to stay on this until I get my tspence paws on it.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

They will be headed back my way after Brandon is done with them. We have more testing to do and more tweeters to compare them to.


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## Deton Nation (Jul 3, 2009)

tspence73 said:


> Alright,
> 
> Where's the XBL tweet dammit? I'm going to stay on this until I get my tspence paws on it.


Nice picture support!


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## splicer (Oct 4, 2008)

Megalomaniac said:


> if he pushed it in far enough it would crack, otherwise just dent like a tin can.


I have never seen anything ceramic dent in my life. I've never dented or bent a ceramic plate, cup, tile, or one of those kyocera knives. They always chip or crack. 

I am thinking these Tang Band ceradome tweeters are not really all that ceramic. Maybe they are metal with a ceramic coating. Tang Band has a tendency to be slightly shady with their claims, which is a shame because they make some good stuff.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

ItalynStylion said:


> They will be headed back my way after Brandon is done with them. We have more testing to do and more tweeters to compare them to.


I was more talking about being able to buy a pair when some are made for sell. But if I can buy the only pair in existence, I'm cool with that too.


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## RowJoe (Nov 14, 2008)

Any chance one of you guys has the SEAS Prestige 27TBFC/G? Maybe some Morel stuff, too. =)


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

I have Zapco CK tweeters I wouldnt mind throwing in there. 

Reference series>750.2

Maybe something else soon, but who knows...


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

splicer said:


> I have never seen anything ceramic dent in my life. I've never dented or bent a ceramic plate, cup, tile, or one of those kyocera knives. They always chip or crack.
> 
> I am thinking these Tang Band ceradome tweeters are not really all that ceramic. Maybe they are metal with a ceramic coating. Tang Band has a tendency to be slightly shady with their claims, which is a shame because they make some good stuff.


How thick do you think tweeter diaphragms are in your mind? They are VERY thin in real life, much thinner than a plate,cup, and a tile. Tin tweeters dent way easier, these have _some_ give in them. I own the Tangband version myself too.

But you may be right about it being just a coating, I dont know for sure. I wonder if wiggins can clarify.


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## Deton Nation (Jul 3, 2009)

el_chupo_ said:


> I have Zapco CK tweeters I wouldnt mind throwing in there.
> 
> Reference series>750.2
> 
> Maybe something else soon, but who knows...


I was eyeing those, how do they sound?
Mike


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> i have some Scan Illuminators I can throw in to test  Also the Peerless HDS and Hiquophons....maybe this time I can acutally stay for the listening part


Wow, I'd actually love to see those thrown into the mix. Make it happen boys !


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Wow, I'd actually love to see those thrown into the mix. Make it happen boys !


I would also like to see this happen.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Any new info on the Tang Band Ceramic XBL tweet? How can we have it made? Buyers are waiting for this rare gem.


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## appleyard (Apr 29, 2009)

Its not tang band xbl^2. Not official at least


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Anything ever come of this? 

Considering i'm going to go 3way soon, and I have some xbl^2 mids and midbass's, i'd like to try these out.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I don't know what the holdup is with Dan. I've expressed to him numerous times that the DIY community is VERY interested in the tweeter and I've yet to hear much back from him. Hopefully he can give us some more information.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Still waiting on this tweeter. It would be the centerpiece of my future A-pillar sound system experiment. I must have this driver!


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to post this guys - I'm sure it was an enjoyable experience and I'd have been on hand if I still lived in Tejas! I sure miss getting to talk to others about car audio since no one around here knows anything - including the store owners in most cases haha!

Anyhow, since there is a large group of you there and things like this are likely to come up again - please consider a couple ways to make these results a bit more meaningful in the future. There is actually a snobby high end home audio group up here that I've read about (they bring in people like David Hafler (he's dead now - but you get the idea) and some of these ideas come from their works). First, its always best to do blind testing whenever possible. People carry a lot of expectations that come with brand and forum reading that may or may not be accurate and its long been recognized that results between a test like this and a blind test turn out completely different in many cases. 

Sorry to sound critical, as that isn't really my intent. I just know that this was the chance to compare some really nice products and while its a bit more difficult to pull off, if someones wife or twelve year old kid would have done the wire connecting with the rest of you totally unaware of what you were listening to, it would be more meaningful. Another thing that has been shown in the past to bias a testing like this is efficiency. Louder speakers are often described as more vibrant, having better dynamics and generally better.

EDIT - SORRY I should have read all the posts first - Patrick covered my point already =)

I'd love to have seen how a set of the old ADS tweeters from their hay day would have done in this comparison... always love those buggers!

Less


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

el_chupo_ said:


> I have Zapco CK tweeters I wouldnt mind throwing in there.
> 
> Reference series>750.2
> 
> Maybe something else soon, but who knows...


I too would love to hear how these perform in comparison. I used a set of these for a couple weeks maybe and I thought they were very nice on the upper register - very airy and smooth. I wasn't as impressed with the lower end but thought they'd do well in a three way set up.

Budget shoppers might also want to look into the SB Acoustics new ring radiator designs. SB was founded by former Revelator engineers/designers and they took their designs as a new company thats made speakers for over 25 years in India or Indonesia I want to say. I think they might have had a little consistancy issue with their first few drivers, but the reviews on the tweeters (Zaph and others) seem to be pretty good.

Thanks again guys.

Jim


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