# HEC HD-AUDIO USB-INTERFACE questions



## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

So it is apparently out and on the market. Who here currently has one? What are your thoughts on it?

I don't know much about connecting USB to other devices. According to the manual a USB OTG cord is needed for an Android device. I want to connect a phone that has USB Type C, what cords or adapter do I need to correctly connect to the HEC which has mini USB? 





Helix Extension Card - HD-Audio USB-Interface
• for DSP.2
• for DSP PRO / DSP PRO MK2
• for V EIGHT DSP
• for P SIX DSP MK2
• USB Interface for Windows, macOS, iOS and Android devices
• Lossless HD-audio transmission up to 192 kHz / 32 Bit
• Asynchronous USB connection with own clock generators for highest
jitter immunity

HELIX Extension Card HD-AUDIOUSB-INTERFACE


Manual


----------



## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

"Lossless HD-audio _transmission_ up to 192 kHz / 32 Bit"

Transmission is the key word here. The DSP Pro MKII can only process up to 96 kHz / 32 bit. I would say the MKII downsamples the audio to 96 kHz for it to work.


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Mine will be here tomorrow so I'm going to need some help on this as well. 

So sub'd


----------



## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

I will be utilizing the USB HEC for a P-Six mk2.. Although I don't have a HEC USB card yet I am very familiar with USB audio.. 

I would imagine the HEC card is USB Audio Class 2 compliant and when you plug your compatible device into it it shows up as an audio device. The HEC card is also Asynchronous, which is a great thing. Usually this term is used when the USB receiver has it's own hi precision clocks at 44KHZ and 48KHz and takes control of the timing and when the audio is sent to it, basically the USB receiver becomes the master clock for the AUdio stream.

For Android you will most likely just need the proper cable, there are hundreds when you do the search on Amazon.. I know it states you need an Android OTG cable, but i have successfully streamed to several different USB DACs from my PixelXL and none of those cables had the OTG designation on them when I bought them..

Mini-B to usb C

I would be curious as to if the DSP actually puts out current to charge the phone.. If not you might need a Powered USB Hub to charge the phone and hook to the DSP at the same time. Anker makes several 12v USB Hubs.. With a Hub you could also plug in a memory stick full of music and your phone should see that as well..

As Cmusic stated, the 32bit/192KHz is the capability of the USB receiver chip in the HEC.. If youdo stream higher than 24/96 then Somewhere after the USB receiver chip it will need to be resampled to the 24-96 that is the stated max for the DSP chips.

_*USB Audio Class 2 standard (2009)*
It is downwards compatible with class 1. 
USB Audio Class 2 additionally supports 32 bit and all common sample rates > 96 kHz
Class 2 uses High Speed (480 MHz). This requires USB 2 or 3.
As the data rate of High Speed is 40 X Full speed, recording a 60 channel using 24 bits at 96 kHz (132 Mbit/s) is not a problem.
From mid-2010 on USB audio class 2 drivers are available in OSX 10.6.4 and Linux.
Both support sample rates up to 384 kHz.
It is unclear if Microsoft is going to support USB Audio 2.
You need a third party USB class 2 driver on Windows.
Companies like Thesycon or Centrance have developed a USB Class 2 Audio driver for Windows.
Using High Speed USB for playback there are no limits in resolution._


_*Adaptive or asynchronous synchronization*
The audio data is send over the USB in isochronous mode.
Each frame contains a certain amount of data.
The volume of the data is about equal to a real time stream but it arrives in packages at distinct intervals (the send rate of the bus).
In adaptive mode the PC controls the amount of data send. As a consequence the DAC has to adapt its speed to avoid buffer over/under run.
In asynchronous mode the DAC sets up a feedback loop telling the PC how much data to send.
This allows for implementing a fixed clock of high quality in the DAC.
In principle asynchronous USB allows for an implementation with very low jitter.
This is what probably differentiates between an asynchronous USB DAC and an asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter. The moment you use a converter you move the clock out of the DAC._


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

felix509 said:


> I will be utilizing the USB HEC for a P-Six mk2.. Although I don't have a HEC USB card yet I am very familiar with USB audio..
> 
> I would imagine the HEC card is USB Audio Class 2 compliant and when you plug your compatible device into it it shows up as an audio device. The HEC card is also Asynchronous, which is a great thing. Usually this term is used when the USB receiver has it's own hi precision clocks at 44KHZ and 48KHz and takes control of the timing and when the audio is sent to it, basically the USB receiver becomes the master clock for the AUdio stream.
> 
> ...




HELIX Extension Card HD-AUDIO USB-INTERFACE

On the features tab ^.

"Attention: The HD-AUDIO USB-INTERFACE does not support charging."

But it looks like you don't _need_ the camera kit for iDevices. It's just when you want to charge the device while listening that you need to use it.


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Anyone use this module yet? I am trying to get one, but would still like to hear the thoughts of others 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

I installed one in my DSP Pro MKII last night but it turned out I had the wrong cable to connect my iPhone 7 to it. I tried to use a lightening to a normal full size USB cable connected to a normal USB to mini USB adapter, but the HEC would not recognize the iPhone. The green light on the HEC module lit up and the MKII recognizes it. I re-read the instructions and it said to use a lightening to camera adapter or a lightening to USB adapter. I've got both an Apple brand camera USB adapter and a 15' USB to mini USB cable ordered and they should be here early next week.


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Argh that stinks. I've got the necessary cables, just no dealer in the state. Silly Oklahomans. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Check your PM ^^^^


----------



## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

Greg, when will the P Six mk2 version of the USB HEC be available??


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

aholland1198 said:


> Argh that stinks. I've got the necessary cables, just no dealer in the state. Silly Oklahomans.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We have a dealer in your state. Brax, Helix and Match products. We have (2) USB HEC modules in the warehouse. They will order anything you want from Audiotech Fischer USA. 

Car Trends
918-627-5190
4833 S Memorial Dr
Tulsa, OK 74145


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

felix509 said:


> Greg, when will the P Six mk2 version of the USB HEC be available??


I can tell you on Monday when I have the right people to ask.


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

BlackHHR said:


> We have a dealer in your state. Brax, Helix and Match products. We have (2) USB HEC modules in the warehouse. They will order anything you want from Audiotech Fischer USA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I searched via google earlier today and that store is listed as permanently closed. Thanks for the help though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

aholland1198 said:


> I searched via google earlier today and that store is listed as permanently closed. Thanks for the help though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Email me @ [email protected]"dot"com .

I just shipped some gear to Oklahoma this quarter. We will have the information in our data base as to where it was shipped.


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

felix509 said:


> Greg, when will the P Six mk2 version of the USB HEC be available??


It is available now. 

Helix Extension Card - HD-Audio USB-Interface
• for DSP.2
• for DSP PRO / DSP PRO MK2
• for V EIGHT DSP
*• for P SIX DSP MK2*
• USB Interface for Windows, macOS, iOS and Android devices
• Lossless HD-audio transmission up to 192 kHz / 32 Bit
• Asynchronous USB connection with own clock generators for highest
jitter immunity


----------



## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

I got the correct cables in for my iPhone 7 in today. I hooked my iPhone up to the MKII on my lunch break and did some listening. Everything played perfectly. I did not have any 192 KHz audio files loaded on my phone but it played 24/96 audio tracks with complete clarity. I even herd some details in one track that I never heard before. For the record you do need the lightening to USB camera adapter for i devices to connect to the HEC USB.


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

cmusic said:


> I got the correct cables in for my iPhone 7 in today. I hooked my iPhone up to the MKII on my lunch break and did some listening. Everything played perfectly. I did not have any 192 KHz audio files loaded on my phone but it played 24/96 audio tracks with complete clarity. I even herd some details in one track that I never heard before. For the record you do need the lightening to USB camera adapter for i devices to connect to the HEC USB.


Did you get the usb 3 camera adapter? It allows usb out and charging in at the same time.


----------



## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

nineball76 said:


> Did you get the usb 3 camera adapter? It allows usb out and charging in at the same time.


No I just got the regular camera adapter: 










I plan on putting my Pioneer P99 back in and I'll hook my iPhone to it when I am not playing hi-res tracks. The P99 does charge my iPhone.

If I find myself playing more hi-res audio tracks more than using streaming music sources, I'll get a dual lightening adapter like this:


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

This is the one I was talking about. I might look into that dual lightning. Not sure of its purpose.


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I am doing ipad install, I am down between usb hec or bt hec, i want to use usb. Are there anyway to charge my ipad with the hec usb? If not i will have to go hec bt? Looking for some help


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

gumbeelee said:


> I am doing ipad install, I am down between usb hec or bt hec, i want to use usb. Are there anyway to charge my ipad with the hec usb? If not i will have to go hec bt? Looking for some help
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The usb 3 camera adapter would let you send usb to hec and have a second lightning for charging. 

Usb>bt.


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

nineball76 said:


> The usb 3 camera adapter would let you send usb to hec and have a second lightning for charging.
> 
> Usb>bt.




Thank you sir, thats all I needed to know!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

Any updates on how this worked out using these? I am also curious if anyone has tried this on Android and if you got volume control with it?


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

I have mine and plan to install this weekend. Also upgraded the Onkyo app to play HD files, but I have an idevice 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

aholland1198 said:


> I have mine and plan to install this weekend. Also upgraded the Onkyo app to play HD files, but I have an idevice
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still would be curious to see.

Also if BlackHHR can chime in I am curious

Being from what I can see that the USB add on card is USB-Mini 5-Pin B,

Does it allow the DSP units to be turned on via this input as a remote turn on or do they just use normal source input turn on / 12V remote wire?


----------



## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

I believe the dsp has a signal sensing option, but don't recall off hand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## karanbhatia (Jun 17, 2011)

Silvercoat said:


> Still would be curious to see.
> 
> Also if BlackHHR can chime in I am curious
> 
> ...


I am using the HEC HD-Audio interface with the DSP Pro MK2

The signal sensing option lets you set a threshold level beyond which the DSP will sense the signal on the HEC adapter and shift to that for the playback.

It works with a variable signal.



The same can be done on the Digital signal as well. After a threshold level the DSP will shift to that source. Once the volume is lowered, the DSP shifts back to the Master source.


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

karanbhatia said:


> I am using the HEC HD-Audio interface with the DSP Pro MK2
> 
> The signal sensing option lets you set a threshold level beyond which the DSP will sense the signal on the HEC adapter and shift to that for the playback.
> 
> ...


I understand signal sense for source switching, but I assume it also applies for amp/system turn on?

Also in your picture, I assume where you have USB plugged in is for PC tuning and not audio in?

Also had a curious question if anyone could chime in..

If you were to compare the VSIX.V2 versus the V Eight DSP's, and you were using USB digital input as your audio source, would the difference in sampling rates on the units even matter since everything is digital? Or is the DSP sampling a sampled signal? 192 Khz > 96 Khz versus 192 Khz > 48 Khz theoretically?

If you can't tell yet super interested in these units >.>

Just bought a P8W sub the other day just to try some more equipment of Helix.


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Silvercoat said:


> Still would be curious to see.
> 
> Also if BlackHHR can chime in I am curious
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply. Been busy dealing with my son and the stroke he had.

To answer your question. Yes, the dsp will sense the signal and turn on the unit. No need for a remote turn on.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Silvercoat said:


> I understand signal sense for source switching, but I assume it also applies for amp/system turn on?
> 
> Also in your picture, I assume where you have USB plugged in is for PC tuning and not audio in?
> 
> ...


The digital stream would get "downsampled" to the DSP's native resolution. So you would not have a 192kHz track any longer.


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

BlackHHR said:


> Sorry for the late reply. Been busy dealing with my son and the stroke he had.
> 
> To answer your question. Yes, the dsp will sense the signal and turn on the unit. No need for a remote turn on.


:stunned:

No need to apologize for the late reply, that's a heavy situation to be dealing with...

Sorry to hear of the troubles, I hope your son is doing better.

Thank you for the response though, the information is very helpful.


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

t3sn4f2 said:


> The digital stream would get "downsampled" to the DSP's native resolution. So you would not have a 192kHz track any longer.


Fair enough, makes sense to me. Its a bummer we have to deal with all of the sampling craziness.

Really having the rough time deciding between those two. I wish the V-EIGHT came in the 96khz flavour like the P-SIX Mk2 does.

Glad to know that the USB card is this useful however. I am craving a tablet build for my car.


----------



## Souths1der (Aug 27, 2014)

I wouldn't mind getting info for a dealer to hook me up with one of these HD USB adapters for my DSP Pro MKII.


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Souths1der said:


> I wouldn't mind getting info for a dealer to hook me up with one of these HD USB adapters for my DSP Pro MKII.


If you are near Chicago contact Tom via email at [email protected]

Cheers!
Ben


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

According to the Audiotech Fisher US website I have 3 dealers in FL to choose form,

Brandon Car Stereo Shoppe, The Audio Itch, and SNS Auotsports. 

Anyone have any feedback or suggestions for these folks?

I have some questions about the P63C's and that wonderful looking P 3M.


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Silvercoat said:


> According to the Audiotech Fisher US website I have 3 dealers in FL to choose form,
> 
> Brandon Car Stereo Shoppe, The Audio Itch, and SNS Auotsports.
> 
> ...


If you have questions regarding speaker specifics and stock status, please call us.

Joey or Greg
770-888-8200 

SNS has purchased products from us recently. Not sure what they have in stock.

Car Audio Shoppe in Brandon has not purchased anything from us in a while. Not sure what they have in stock.


The Audio Itch has not purchased anything from us in a while. Not sure what they have in stock.


----------



## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

BlackHHR said:


> If you have questions regarding speaker specifics and stock status, please call us.
> 
> Joey or Greg
> 770-888-8200
> ...


Awesome!! Thanks for the info!! I will have to get my list of questions together.


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

Anyone tried this?
Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter - Apple (AU)


----------



## Souths1der (Aug 27, 2014)

Does anyone have a definitive list of settings and cables need to connect your Android phone?

My DSP is in the trunk, so I was thinking these three cables:

OTG Cable thats states it can also charge the phone..skeptical
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CXAC1ZW/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2086U0HXZJZIA

Cable to attach to charge port that is close to my phone mount
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S8GTVIK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ

Long USB cable to run to the trunk
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KL8N6A/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Also, is there more involved to get this to stream your audio via USB? Any settings you need to adjust/verify on the phone?


----------



## a5150g (Jan 31, 2017)

I just installed mine yesterday, used
QED USB (a-mini USB ) 
Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter
Lightning cable to charge the iPhone
Onkyo HF Player upgraded to HD

All files as downsampled to Helix DSP internal clock of 96Khz just for the record. Onkyo app plays all including DSD and all goes as PCM which suits helix DSP Pro.

All works well and even better comparing do ibasso dx80 DAP which I had running through digital coax as there was significant "jitter-noise" when played 192Khz files

So for me win-win situation. Only thin is missing storage on iPhone as only 64GB at the moment.


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

a5150g said:


> I just installed mine yesterday, used
> QED USB (a-mini USB )
> Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter
> Lightning cable to charge the iPhone
> ...


Very cool. Does the iPhone show the Helix as a 'speaker' to select between the internal speakers and the USB output?

I'm just asking as I've seen, if an iPhone is connected via BT to an headhunit but a different output is selected, the steering wheel controls (via the headunit) still control the tracks.


----------



## a5150g (Jan 31, 2017)

it shows it as a speaker (full name of hec usb audio etc ) but my car can only do hands free ( Honda Accord CU2 ) when connected to a BT, it dies not play songs over BT. Maybe in other cars it might be possible.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Anyone tried this?
> Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter - Apple (AU)


Yes, I have one and tested it last night.

iPad Air to Apple USB camera Lightning adapter.

It's working.... sort of.

It will play music, but after a minute or so the music slows down and gets distorted. Very strange.


----------



## a5150g (Jan 31, 2017)

subterFUSE said:


> Yes, I have one and tested it last night.
> 
> iPad Air to Apple USB camera Lightning adapter.
> 
> ...


Very strange, I've just tesed my again an it plays no problem, youtube, Onkyo HF, music from my server over 3G.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I just switched to Full Speed mode in the DSP software and it seems to be working fine now. I'll continue testing to see if it happens again.


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

I have just taken the Hec bluetooth module out of my p six dsp to see if the hec hd audio is any benefit, give more volume and stop having to connect the tablet to the p six as it won't do it automatically.

After installing the module plugging the otg cable in etc etc all in getting is digital hiss pink noise and distortion, you can just about make out the music.
Going into the software and changing from full speed to high speed only changed the digital noise pitch. 

This applies to anything I play, YouTube, poweramp, Google Chrome etc etc. Music is all alac Lossless.

All I can think is I have damaged the USB cable.


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Hmm - mine works great from my iPhone via the camera connection dongle. What device are you using?


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

Samsung Galaxy Tab s2 8"


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Gotcha. I don't have an android device here at the house, but may be able to get one to try tomorrow.


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm also trying to connect a Samsung Galaxy Tab4 7" tablet to my Helix. I can't seem to find out what type of cable to connect it with. I know the mini usb connects into the Helix card but does the other end connect into the micro usb port or the 3.5mm headphone jack. Everyone I've talked to uses an Apple device not Android.


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Definitely needs to plug into the micro USB port on the phone - NOT the headphone jack.


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

benny z said:


> Definitely needs to plug into the micro USB port on the phone - NOT the headphone jack.


If that's the case then I'm doing something else wrong. I'm using a mini to micro usb cable to connect the two. When I start the music on the tablet it plays through the tablet speakers, not my stereo.


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

bigbubba said:


> If that's the case then I'm doing something else wrong. I'm using a mini to micro usb cable to connect the two. When I start the music on the tablet it plays through the tablet speakers, not my stereo.


Yes you have to use a OTG cable inbetween the device and the cable. 

My supplier has give me a reply as hes had customers with similar problems.

I need to try one of these.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...eywords=ugreen+usb+extension+cable&psc=1&th=1

I'll try other devices and shorter cables and this came from ugreen and see what happens.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

a5150g said:


> it shows it as a speaker (full name of hec usb audio etc ) but my car can only do hands free ( Honda Accord CU2 ) when connected to a BT, it dies not play songs over BT. Maybe in other cars it might be possible.


I thought if the ipad shows an icon of a speaker it means its output is in analog??

If the icon says USB then its a digital signal. 

Can anyone confirm that using an IOS device and the Camera 3 kit that you get a digital signal to the Helix?


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Timelessr1 said:


> I thought if the ipad shows an icon of a speaker it means its output is in analog??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks Benny! 

Does your volume on your iphone/ipod do anything while plugged into the Hec USB?


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

it does!

i do not have a director and am using the iPhone volume control as the master volume. it works great! i bought a bluetooth media remote control to connect and control the phone's volume and track back/advance.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

benny z said:


> it does!
> 
> i do not have a director and am using the iPhone volume control as the master volume. it works great! i bought a bluetooth media remote control to connect and control the phone's volume and track back/advance.


see..that's where I have a concern... At one point in my ipad install i used an purei20 to pull out an optical signal from the ipad, and i was able to use the ipads volume still...which contradicts what a digital signal should be doing (no volume control...its just zeros and ones) My current setup uses a Camera kit to a Peachtree and optical out which doesn't let me use the volume on the ipad...which means its pulling a digital signal through the source chain.

Its sounding like its going through the apple's dac and is an analog signal since you are able to control volume from the source...


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Idk - email Audiotec-Fischer and ask? I was surprised the volume control worked also, but am glad it does. 

If you go into the DSP software for the input card you can set it to high or full, and see the resolution it's using... I'm confident it's still full digital - just don't know how the volume works (like you).

Email them and ask - report back please.


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Also, it's playing hi res files via the Onkyo player. The iPhone's DAC won't play them this way...


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

benny z said:


> Also, it's playing hi res files via the Onkyo player. The iPhone's DAC won't play them this way...


I sent Audio Fischer an email...waiting for a response..

But could/would the iphones DAC down sample the HD tracks before it even hits the USB output? 

Its just that that volume control is concerning me...


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

I don't think so - because when I play the same file through just the iPhone (not connected to external DAC), the output file is reduced to 48khz vs the 82.2khz I get when connected to the DAC. *note this is originally a DSD file, thus the info on the left.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Timelessr1 said:


> see..that's where I have a concern... At one point in my ipad install i used an purei20 to pull out an optical signal from the ipad, and i was able to use the ipads volume still...which contradicts what a digital signal should be doing (no volume control...its just zeros and ones) My current setup uses a Camera kit to a Peachtree and optical out which doesn't let me use the volume on the ipad...which means its pulling a digital signal through the source chain.
> 
> 
> 
> Its sounding like its going through the apple's dac and is an analog signal since you are able to control volume from the source...



You are wrong. 

Digital signals can contain volume embedded in the data stream.

The mobridge works this way, and so does the iPhone. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

hmmmm...you might be right then!...I just wish there was a way to "see" the resolution on the DSP side of the USB. Being in IT, I've seen too many times what is thought to be output from a source isnt what makes it to the input on the other end ;-) I'm curious how Fischer will answer this...


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Timelessr1 said:


> hmmmm...you might be right then!...I just wish there was a way to "see" the resolution on the DSP side of the USB. Being in IT, I've seen too many times what is thought to be output from a source isnt what makes it to the input on the other end ;-) I'm curious how Fischer will answer this...




You can. Give me 5 mins and I'll pull it up.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

benny z said:


> Also, it's playing hi res files via the Onkyo player. The iPhone's DAC won't play them this way...


Hi res direct from iDevice.. Sweet! If it were just easier to get the @#$% files ON the device. Doggone Apple! Unless there's a slick way to do hi res bypassing iTunes now that I haven't seen.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

subterFUSE said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> Digital signals can contain volume embedded in the data stream.
> 
> ...


If im wrong...that would be awesome...i hope i am


the new iphone 7 has a DAC built into the output of the lightning connector since now that is where you connect headphones to it...so you are saying the lightning connector carries both analog and digital? so who's to say which signal is picked or used at the DSP end?


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Lightning is digital only.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

subterFUSE said:


> Lightning is digital only.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I believe that use to be the case with the iphones prior to the 7 which had a dedicated analog audio out used for headphones. The new 7 used the Lightning for headphones now. My understanding is the DAC for the headphones is inside the phone..

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/apples-lightning-headphone-adapter-analog-or-digital


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

i just made a youtube video. uploading. hang tight.


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

youtube video is live.

watch in 1080p hd. 

with uber expensive headphones!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAAK9GYONaI&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Ben...thank you so much!! that video was awesome...so the Helix software does show that its receiving the HD signal!! I think now I will be removing my peachtree ( which i do love) and go to a simpler set up with the HEC USB


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

you're very welcome.

gs9...what?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

benny z said:


> you're very welcome.
> 
> gs9...what?


Heck if I had the HEC, I'd just put the OEM back in and rock a phone and Director and call it done. Kinda wish I had kept the harness that tapped into the OEM signal before the OEM amp.. Rock that to the Helix for radio.. Though the tint job when the car was new wrecked the radio.. Dang Civic was doomed from day one.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> Digital signals can contain volume embedded in the data stream.
> 
> ...


x2

But just to be a little clearer in case someone misunderstands what you're saying. The digital signal does not have a volume control carrier signal sent along with it. It is simply attenuated by the media player or OS or external digital device down stream (ie pure i20). No different than your volume slider on iTunes in your PC. Or how levels are controlled by a digital mixer when producing a song in the studio. Where everything is done in the digital domain.

So since it's a digital type of processing the files will loose some of their resolution depending on the quality of the process and how much you attenuate. The Pure i20 degradation was pretty significant but anything done with a modern OS or media app is for all intents and purposes audibly transparent.


----------



## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Couple questions.. anyone tried a Fiio X5 Gen 3 over USB? Any benefit over digitlal coax and I saw that the Director has some media controls.. can it control the USB connected device?


----------



## sesshin (Dec 20, 2009)

Is eBay really the only place to purchase this online?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Couple questions.. anyone tried a Fiio X5 Gen 3 over USB? Any benefit over digitlal coax and I saw that the Director has some media controls.. can it control the USB connected device?


I bet (meaning I can't confirm) but all the Director will control is:
- usual volume, possibly a HEC-specific as well as the normal master volume.
- mute by pressing the button as normal at volume screen
- Switching from Main to the others including HEC input

That is the golden question though isn't it.. I'm interested as well in HEC USB vs coaxial, since I too have a Fiio X5 gen2 which works lovely from coaxial, though clumsy with the thick stiff high-grade bluejeans coax SPDIF cable I have coming up through the console pocket to the Fiio extension cable. 

I'd say from a USB device such as a tablet, depending on how elaborate the install would be such as a dash build or something, surely it'd be aesthetically cleaner than SPDIF to the top of a Fiio. If SQ being equal, that alone might be worth the price of admission just in terms of a clean setup.


----------



## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Babs said:


> I bet (meaning I can't confirm) but all the Director will control is:
> - usual volume, possibly a HEC-specific as well as the normal master volume.
> - mute by pressing the button as normal at volume screen
> - Switching from Main to the others including HEC input
> ...


My Gen 3 uses an android OS does the Gen 2 as well? My digital coax is over the same adapter but with an Audio Quest Cinnamon coax cable. It's very flexible and works perfectly. I am having a custom coax built for my other car with high quality cable and no adapter needed. My thoughts are if this thing works over USB I am going to build a docking station lol. If it has decent control through the director that is a huge plus but I know I will still need access to the screen. To me this is just like using a phone with the Sony only difference is there is a cable (coax) that has to stay connected to the fiio.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> My Gen 3 uses an android OS does the Gen 2 as well? My digital coax is over the same adapter but with an Audio Quest Cinnamon coax cable. It's very flexible and works perfectly. I am having a custom coax built for my other car with high quality cable and no adapter needed. My thoughts are if this thing works over USB I am going to build a docking station lol. If it has decent control through the director that is a huge plus but I know I will still need access to the screen. To me this is just like using a phone with the Sony only difference is there is a cable (coax) that has to stay connected to the fiio.


The Gen 2 I think is android kernel but it's definitely not like the more android-ish UI of Gen 3. Also gen 2 isn't designed for USB streaming but just conventional headphones or SPDIF coaxial or line-out. Gen 3 may be different there as well.


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

well I have tried a variety of different cables and the USB hec module I have just played pink noise with a hint of audio and you tube videos play fast when plugged into otg and the helix. very strange.

I think my module is damaged. Hec bluetooth back in and working perfectly.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

RattyMcClelland said:


> well I have tried a variety of different cables and the USB hec module I have just played pink noise with a hint of audio and you tube videos play fast when plugged into otg and the helix. very strange.
> 
> I think my module is damaged. Hec bluetooth back in and working perfectly.


I was gonna suggest unplugging it and plugging it back in. Have you tried that?


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

When I first got my USB HEC, I hooked up my iPad Air with USB cam adapter and the music played, but at 50% speed.

No, I'm not kidding.

The music played at half speed.



I had to go into the DSP software and switch to High Speed mode. It was in Full Speed.

That fixed the playback speed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

Yep tried unplugging in and plugging back in. Tried full speed high speed in the software. Nothing changed.


----------



## drsaab (Jun 9, 2017)

Did you get the android to work?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

I have been sent another hec USB module. 
Plugged that in and it's exactly the same. 
Pure pink noise and hiss. 

I cannot understand it.

I'm going to try another USB otg cable to rule out a faulty cable.


----------



## Souths1der (Aug 27, 2014)

I had this OTG cable:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XNQXTV9/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was verified to also charge the phone, and it did do that. However, after extended use (over an hour straight), suddenly noise starting entering the system. I was on a long road trip and the road was bumpy, so my initial reaction was a wire came loose from a bumpy road. So I switched back to bluetooth thru my HU. On the way home I stumbled upon the true cause, the power connector to that OTG cable. When I unplugged just the power cable the noise went away. I have since switched to this OTG cable and I am having no problems, although I can no longer charge my phone at the same time:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0194WSKOM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

drsaab said:


> Did you get the android to work?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know about anyone else but my android still won't work. I have given up on it. I talked to over a half dozen people and bought and ruled out 8 different cables. I just don't care to bother with it anymore.


----------



## RattyMcClelland (Nov 28, 2008)

Yep, 2 usb hec modules in my psix dsp, several Android otg cables and extension cables etc and all I'm getting is pure hiss and pink noise.

I give up.

Going back to aptx bluetooth. Sounds very very good.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

I haven't tried mine yet but are ppl having issues with IOS too? or just Andriod?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Y'all stop with that defective unit talk.. I've got one ordered.


----------



## drsaab (Jun 9, 2017)

I have got the iphone with camera connector to work no problem. Not yet lucky with the android.


----------



## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

drsaab said:


> I have got the iphone with camera connector to work no problem. Not yet lucky with the android.


Thanks! Good to know?


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

my ipad mini4 works great using the cck to the hec, haven't tried my android phone though


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I have used it with the apple camera connection kit 3 for two months now. I absolutley love it. My ipad mini 3 is the source, and u can charge the ipad and play music with the camera kit 3. It is gonna make decks obsolete. Everyone should use this setup!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

gumbeelee said:


> I have used it with the apple camera connection kit 3 for two months now. I absolutley love it. My ipad mini 3 is the source, and u can charge the ipad and play music with the camera kit 3. It is gonna make decks obsolete. Everyone should use this setup!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Do you have any external storage for the iPad? That's the only reason I don't use one. Was about to grab a USB module but now that I see it doesn't cooperate with android.... not sure what ima do. Anyone use a windows tablet with the hex module?


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Nope i have no extenlal storage. Just use apple music with icloud, so i can have all of my music library. Also use tidal and spotify alot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kmbkk (Jun 11, 2011)

I just got the USB HEC for my install. The Pro Mk 2 will be in the trunk. I was planning to run a cable to the front and connect it into the OEM USB port. Not sure if this will work with iPhone and Android phones, so will I need the camera adapter on the dsp end or will it work with just a USB cable? FYI, the system isn't installed yet. I'm dropping it off with my installer next week and I want to get the necessary cable(s) prior so I won't cause a delay in finishing.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Apple devices require the camera adapter to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

My galaxy s8 works great with the hec usb phone came with an otg adapter


----------



## kmbkk (Jun 11, 2011)

Naptownsoldier1488 said:


> My galaxy s8 works great with the hec usb phone came with an otg adapter


Do you use the otg adapter on the phone end or the helix end?


----------



## banshee28 (Mar 23, 2006)

RattyMcClelland said:


> Yep, 2 usb hec modules in my psix dsp, several Android otg cables and extension cables etc and all I'm getting is pure hiss and pink noise.
> 
> I give up.
> 
> Going back to aptx bluetooth. Sounds very very good.


I am also currently using aptx bluetooth and considering the USB HEC if there was a SQ improvement. However it sounds like you have not gotten this to work on Android? I do have a new LG phone but not sure if that and/or the OTG cable could be the "fix"?


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Is it really not possible to play high res audio via android with this card? I am thinking of buying one to plac FLAC recordings.


----------



## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

Yes u can play hires with android and this card use the usb otg cabel off the phone not the dsp end and download any good app like tidal hifi streams flac sounds very good no noise floor to speak of


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Naptownsoldier1488 said:


> Yes u can play hires with android and this card use the usb otg cabel off the phone not the dsp end and download any good app like tidal hifi streams flac sounds very good no noise floor to speak of


So just a little short OTG cable from the phone and then extension USB cable back to the Helix will work?


----------



## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

Yep works great never had a problem I even tried a lg v20 worked great the s8 came with an otg in the box but any otg cabels will work u can get off Amazon's for 2 bucks


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Naptownsoldier1488 said:


> Yep works great never had a problem I even tried a lg v20 worked great the s8 came with an otg in the box but any otg cabels will work u can get off Amazon's for 2 bucks


Thanks, i ordered an OTG adapter last night. I was confused if i needed to have t he entire 15 ft USB cable in one piece or if the adapter would be OK.


----------



## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

No problem u should be very happy


----------



## bonesb (Sep 19, 2017)

Just Curious, so this USB option as good or better than coax or optical?


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

bonesb said:


> Just Curious, so this USB option as good or better than coax or optical?


Better quality? I think so. It might not be as versatile with routing as an optical, you are limited on your usb lengths, but really it shouldn't be crazy difficult to meet the length requirements in a car. I have a large sedan and my source is an ipad mini 4 up front and my dsp is in the trunk, it works really well IMO. I was using a small usb dac to go back to my dsp with an optical cable. I couldn't tell you if I had any jitter issues but some other people have complained, also it took the dac out of the signal path, one less thing, the ipad is just handing data over the lightning connection so its not coloring it as far as I know. All the conversions are now happening in my dsp pro mk2, and shipped out to the amps via analog signals.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

bonesb said:


> Just Curious, so this USB option as good or better than coax or optical?




It is better than both optical and coaxial.

The usb connection is asynchronous and therefore has no jitter. It also supports higher sample rates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

I have a question for anyone else with the HEC, I had my speakers unhooked and was trying to set some gains, recently restructured some things in my vehicle. So my source is an ipad, I played a 1khz and 40hz tone, I disabled the crossovers in the software, and the level meter was turning red. I had to pull it back some 9dB to get it to stop flipping red. I did have my EQ settings still set from when I did some RTA work. Am I doing this wrong? When I was all finished the sound was super low. I rechecked with the xovers set and I had to pull the level sliders back up around 0dB. I have some minor tweaks there between channels because for whatever reason one channel in a pair might be .25 or .5dB different so I want to have an equal setting leaving the dsp. What am I doing wrong? Should I be setting my amp gains with my xover and eq settings set or without?


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

jbeez said:


> I have a question for anyone else with the HEC, I had my speakers unhooked and was trying to set some gains, recently restructured some things in my vehicle. So my source is an ipad, I played a 1khz and 40hz tone, I disabled the crossovers in the software, and the level meter was turning red. I had to pull it back some 9dB to get it to stop flipping red. I did have my EQ settings still set from when I did some RTA work. Am I doing this wrong? When I was all finished the sound was super low. I rechecked with the xovers set and I had to pull the level sliders back up around 0dB. I have some minor tweaks there between channels because for whatever reason one channel in a pair might be .25 or .5dB different so I want to have an equal setting leaving the dsp. What am I doing wrong? Should I be setting my amp gains with my xover and eq settings set or without?




Set them without eq, u want everything flat, but make sure the speakers are unhooked...usually i just go straight into the amp when setting gain and skip the dsp, and then after my gains are set i plug my dsp back up...with the ipad just make sure everything is set flat on dsp


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Marko nis (Aug 16, 2017)

Hello ,

What is situation when connect android phone Samsung s8plus with hec usb with usb c otg which comes in package.
This work or not?
Do i must buy some another otg cable?


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

Marko nis said:


> Hello ,
> 
> What is situation when connect android phone Samsung s8plus with hec usb with usb c otg which comes in package.
> This work or not?
> Do i must buy some another otg cable?


I have a note8, i can probably test that for you. Did you say the otg cable came with the phone? Ill check my box

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Marko nis (Aug 16, 2017)

Usb c with usb female. I post picture


----------



## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

Yes the s8 plus comes with a usb c otg adapter in the box works perfect with the hec usb I have bin useing it since the s8 came out


----------



## Marko nis (Aug 16, 2017)

Jbeez are you test connection?

Is it work?


----------



## Marko nis (Aug 16, 2017)

Naptownsoldier1488 what player you use for playing hi res?

Onkio or another?


----------



## vietjdmboi (Jan 3, 2015)

gumbeelee said:


> I have used it with the apple camera connection kit 3 for two months now. I absolutley love it. My ipad mini 3 is the source, and u can charge the ipad and play music with the camera kit 3. It is gonna make decks obsolete. Everyone should use this setup!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


so youre just using 

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...becf3276643fc677f86b885bb2ab1ea868bfc261440d9

and 

HEC HD-AUDIO USB-INTERFACE - P SIX DSP / MK2

with a usb to usb mini b cord?


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

vietjdmboi said:


> so youre just using
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thats all u need is the apple usb camera connection kit 3 it sends music from ipad back to the helix via the usb port; you will use the other port on the usb camera kit to charge your ipad, its just a lightning charger connecter port is all it is, u need to buy a little hard wired usb charging kit or u can just use ciggeratte/power input to charge it as well. I use powerwerx usb buddy to charge mine and it worx great. Its super simple to setup


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I have a question for the Android users. I have a Samsung Tab4 10" tablet. The only way I can get it to connect is turn the HU on and wait for the Helix to power up. Then plug the cable from the Helix into the tablet. But, if I go somewhere and turn the stereo off, get back in and turn the stereo back on, it won't play through the stereo until I disconnect the tablet and plug it back in. It gets annoying to have to keep disconnecting and connecting the cable every time I get in the car. Am I doing something wrong or is this how it works?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Getting closer to fire-up time. I’ll definitely have fun comparing USB HEC to Fiio X5ii coaxial. I certainly wouldn’t be able to fault the silly USB cable since I somehow accidentally ended up with a run of Audioquest Carbon. Yikes!

My shameful trunk...










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Jkarl999 (Nov 29, 2016)

Anybody else having problems using high speed mode? Can't seem to connect my s8+ using the high speed mode. Works fine with full speed mode though.


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

So, I'm guessing that I'm the only one trying to use an Android tablet to connect to the Helix. That's unfortunate.


----------



## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

So I finally pulled the trigger and the HEX USB will be here early next week. 


To anyone that has been successful using an Android phone, exactly which cables are you using?


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

Salami said:


> So I finally pulled the trigger and the HEX USB will be here early next week.
> 
> 
> To anyone that has been successful using an Android phone, exactly which cables are you using?


I'm using one of these cable matters 10ft usb 3.0 extensions

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C7SA21U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and the usb cable that came with my helix goes into that.


----------



## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

jbeez said:


> I'm using one of these cable matters 10ft usb 3.0 extensions
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C7SA21U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> and the usb cable that came with my helix goes into that.



Which cable are you using from the one in the link to your phone? Which phone are you using?


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

Salami said:


> Which cable are you using from the one in the link to your phone? Which phone are you using?


I had a nexus6p but now I use an ipad mini. 

I believe I was using this for the nexus to connect, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017TJN22C/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

I'm newbie and have follwing questions

1. Do we need hires players like Onkyo HF player/USB audio player to play HD audio or just regular media player like VLC/Kodi/WMP etc.?

2. I have ipad pro, mini 4, Surface pro2 and Android phone devices. Ipads and android phone do not have enough memory for my song collection of almost 500GB. What are my options then, using HEC HD audio adapter or Helix BT adapter?


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

rsjaurr said:


> 2. I have ipad pro, mini 4, Surface pro2 and Android phone devices. Ipads and android phone do not have enough memory for my song collection of almost 500GB. What are my options then, using HEC HD audio adapter or Helix BT adapter?


I've read about people using a wireless hard drive like western digital to store additional music, I believe there's an app you install on your ipad and it extends some storage to there. I think Steve Meade did this with a fullsize ipad. I just use my 256gb internal storage on the ipad mini which is fine for my files.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

jbeez said:


> I've read about people using a wireless hard drive like western digital to store additional music, I believe there's an app you install on your ipad and it extends some storage to there. I think Steve Meade did this with a fullsize ipad. I just use my 256gb internal storage on the ipad mini which is fine for my files.



Oh that’s just crazy!! So you can stream from a WiFi SSD through the Mobile device feeding the USB HEC? Hmmmmm. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

jbeez said:


> I've read about people using a wireless hard drive like western digital to store additional music, I believe there's an app you install on your ipad and it extends some storage to there. I think Steve Meade did this with a fullsize ipad. I just use my 256gb internal storage on the ipad mini which is fine for my files.





Babs said:


> Oh that’s just crazy!! So you can stream from a WiFi SSD through the Mobile device feeding the USB HEC? Hmmmmm.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



I have demoed hard drive attached to Hootoo Tripmate (becomes wireless HDD) and accessed the media to ipad mini 4 and played via 8 player. But I do not know if tripmate was processing these media files or not. If it did not then this is one of the best way to go. It was just a demo sort of thing done outside of car as I did not have full system installed.


----------



## tripanazomi (Sep 3, 2009)

Hello 
I am running the HEC USB via apple usb 3 camera connection kit with charging capability. running with no problem at all but want to free my 128 GB iphone 7 due to calls coming whilist playing music during day time.


I also got full licience of NEPlayer app but also one can use free foobar2000 app to stream the music from USB with some less tuning option but will work as well for AIFF /FLAC / WAV files etc.
Neplayer even supports airplay and network hdd song playing as well from your iphone or from your network player

My questions are ; 

1- Does matter if you use a DAP ( Digital Audio Player ) USB out to feed the HEC USB like Astell Kern, Fiio X5 mk3 , Cayin N3 / N5ii etc ? will it be the same as iphone usb out ?

2- will it matter between them in terms of SQ when you output from their USB like their DAC output ? 
3- will optical out of the DAP has the same of its USB out ( SPDIF ?) - keeping in mind that I mostly run 24/96 Max.

Thanks


----------



## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

tripanazomi said:


> Hello
> My questions are ;
> 
> 1- Does matter if you use a DAP ( Digital Audio Player ) USB out to feed the HEC USB like Astell Kern, Fiio X5 mk3 , Cayin N3 / N5ii etc ? will it be the same as iphone usb out ?
> ...


1. I've heard some say phone USB out was similar to DAP. I think it really depends on what DAP or phone you are comparing. For example, Fiio X5 usb out is not available for audio. I'm told Fiio docking uses an 11 pin micro usb and the Helix USB HEC is 5 pin mini B usb. So, I'm not sure how well that will work just due to the cable incompatibility.

2. Again, IMO it depends on the DAP. The Helix can only received PCM. Some DAPs can process any DSD, MQS, PCM and output an improved PCM compatible with the Helix USB HEC.

3. Most DAPs I've reviewed will output higher sample rates over USB than over optical or coax. But if the DAP can't convert the higher sample rate to be compatible with the Helix USB HEC, it doesn't matter. If it can, I've read several studies that state if a better source is feed to a lesser DAC, the sound can still be improved. I've read such studies before HD DAPs existed in the market place (like 2003-2005). I think of it as if garbage in equals garbage out; then best possible in equals best possible out. Although some studies argue you can improve out.


----------



## dangua (Feb 6, 2017)

hi everybody, can someone indicate me a cable usb type c that allow the streaming with hec usb and charge the phone at same time? I tried several usb hub but they could not charge the phone (note 8).

Inviato dal mio SM-N950F utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## mattkim1337 (Jan 31, 2018)

dangua said:


> hi everybody, can someone indicate me a cable usb type c that allow the streaming with hec usb and charge the phone at same time? I tried several usb hub but they could not charge the phone (note 8).
> 
> Inviato dal mio SM-N950F utilizzando Tapatalk


When you connect OTG to most phones, they are programmed to power whatever is connected to them. This prevents charging, as power can only flow outward. There are a few exceptions like the modded kernel Nexus 7, but most phones that I know of cannot OTG + charge simultaneously because they are purposefully designed not to. I don't know specifically about your phone, but OTG + charge requires a kernel mod. This is the main reason I had to use an iPad into my Helix HEC since they can be charged while connected. Good luck finding a solution!


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

dangua said:


> hi everybody, can someone indicate me a cable usb type c that allow the streaming with hec usb and charge the phone at same time? I tried several usb hub but they could not charge the phone (note 8).





mattkim1337 said:


> When you connect OTG to most phones, they are programmed to power whatever is connected to them. This prevents charging, as power can only flow outward. There are a few exceptions like the modded kernel Nexus 7, but most phones that I know of cannot OTG + charge simultaneously because they are purposefully designed not to. I don't know specifically about your phone, but OTG + charge requires a kernel mod. This is the main reason I had to use an iPad into my Helix HEC since they can be charged while connected. Good luck finding a solution!


Have you tried using a wireless charging pad or wireless charging smartphone holder/car mount with the Note 8 while connected via USB OTG cable to the HEC USB?


----------



## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Babs said:


> Getting closer to fire-up time. I’ll definitely have fun comparing USB HEC to Fiio X5ii coaxial. I certainly wouldn’t be able to fault the silly USB cable since I somehow accidentally ended up with a run of Audioquest Carbon. Yikes!
> 
> My shameful trunk...
> 
> ...




Hi Babs, did you ever get a chance to perform this comparison?


----------



## dangua (Feb 6, 2017)

bbfoto said:


> Have you tried using a wireless charging pad or wireless charging smartphone holder/car mount with the Note 8 while connected via USB OTG cable to the HEC USB?


thanks for the tip, I tried, and it works very well!

Inviato dal mio SM-N950F utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

mechatron said:


> Hi Babs, did you ever get a chance to perform this comparison?



Yep.. I’d say you really have to work on discerning a difference between the X5 gen 2 coaxial and the iPhone 6 through camera adapter into Audioquest Carbon into the Helix HEC.. So I’ve really just been rolling with the iPhone USB. 

This may make no sense but I also think it’s marginally better to run Director master volume pegged and use the HEC volume for a master control as opposed to the reverse. Would be interested if you guys experience the same. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Babs said:


> Yep.. I’d say you really have to work on discerning a difference between the X5 gen 2 coaxial and the iPhone 6 through camera adapter into Audioquest Carbon into the Helix HEC.. So I’ve really just been rolling with the iPhone USB.
> 
> This may make no sense but I also think it’s marginally better to run Director master volume pegged and use the HEC volume for a master control as opposed to the reverse. Would be interested if you guys experience the same.
> 
> ...




Oh really so you don’t think you can hear a different between the two sources? That’s great information thanks bud. Do you mind sharing with me what file format (ALAC, FLAC, ?) your songs are stored on your iPhone and what app you’re using to play them as opposed to the song file format on your Fiio DAP?

And I’m sorry but what do you mean with using the HEC volume as opposed to the using the director? Sorry I do have a Helix DSP, Director and HEC-USB card but they’re not installed as yet and I still need to learn a few more things about all of this


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Babs said:


> Yep.. I’d say you really have to work on discerning a difference between the X5 gen 2 coaxial and the iPhone 6 through camera adapter into Audioquest Carbon into the Helix HEC.. So I’ve really just been rolling with the iPhone USB.
> 
> This may make no sense but I also think it’s marginally better to run Director master volume pegged and use the HEC volume for a master control as opposed to the reverse. Would be interested if you guys experience the same.
> 
> ...




I’ve actually never tried to run them reveresed. I have always pegged the hec volume and used the master volume. Gonna give that a shot with it reversed, never even thought of that, thanx babs for the suggestion


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

gumbeelee said:


> I’ve actually never tried to run them reveresed. I have always pegged the hec volume and used the master volume. Gonna give that a shot with it reversed, never even thought of that, thanx babs for the suggestion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Sorry I’m going to sound like a complete noob but is the master volume the volume knob on the director?
And when you say adjust the HEC volume do you mean the volume on the HEC AUDIO USB card through the software?


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

mechatron said:


> Sorry I’m going to sound like a complete noob but is the master volume the volume knob on the director?
> And when you say adjust the HEC volume do you mean the volume on the HEC AUDIO USB card through the software?




On the director there is a seperate volume control for the hec usb device, its under one of the menus, when u go there u can turn the hec volume up or down; most people just max this setting out and then control it with the 
master volume on the director; what babs is saying he does is he actually maxes out the master volume and controls the hec audio volume on the hec audio screen on the director; u can do it either or, i always maxed out the hec volume and controlled it with master volume, I found that this is the easiest way


Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk


----------



## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

gumbeelee said:


> On the director there is a seperate volume control for the hec usb device, its under one of the menus, when u go there u can turn the hec volume up or down; most people just max this setting out and then control it with the
> master volume on the director; what babs is saying he does is he actually maxes out the master volume and controls the hec audio volume on the hec audio screen on the director; u can do it either or, i always maxed out the hec volume and controlled it with master volume, I found that this is the easiest way
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk




That’s a great explanation, thanks bud


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

mechatron said:


> That’s a great explanation, thanks bud




No problem, glad 2 help


Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

Just got mine installed and got the OTG cable for my Samsung android tablet.
Are there any settings in Onkyo HF player I need to set or in the tablet?

I tried a few times to get it to work with no luck, the tablet/software sees the USB connection but no audio from the DSP. 
Set the connection to manual so I could switch it just to make sure but no luck.


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

geartech said:


> Just got mine installed and got the OTG cable for my Samsung android tablet.
> 
> Are there any settings in Onkyo HF player I need to set or in the tablet?
> 
> ...




I have never used it with android tablet only ipad and never had any problems; im sure an adroid user will chime in with some correct info


Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

To answer the question on file format, mostly 16/44.1 Apple Lossless or MP4 etc. iTunes as player on the phone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I'm going to play with the hec/USB over the weekend and see if I can get it working. 
Both the FiiO and android tablet connect to the hec but no audio.
If it shows me no love this weekend I might donate the hec to someone on the forum that wants to play with it.


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

Just installed a usb interface in a dsp.2. The led came on green, just it should. 

Using my laptop I then installed the helix drivers (for both of the interface's operating modes, I think), and all files in all resolutions up to and including 24-192 will play. Love it!

Recently noticed the led is red. Does anyone know what that means? All files still play. Just curious about what the red led indicates.


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

So are you using the laptop as the source to the hec?


----------



## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

Do u have your routing matrix setup for the hec card my s8plus works great with the hec usb as does my kindle fire hd


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I do, have it set the same as my coax in just says Aux L and Aux R instead of digital in L and R


----------



## jsolo53 (Dec 8, 2015)

geartech said:


> So are you using the laptop as the source to the hec?


I'm using an iphone running jremote. Files are stored remotely.


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

Ok, I have tried 3 different input sources into the HEC-HD usb module. 
A laptop with the drivers installed from Helix, My FiiO that has the firmware update for USB audio and Finally a Samsung android tablet. 

Used the OTG cable with the 2 Android units, with all 3 the DSP acts like it sees the signal as it switches the input to the HEC when I play an audio file, I just get no audio out from the DSP.

Tried deleting the routing matrix and rebuilding the signal routing, no luck. 
Any one want to test this HEC for me? I'll send it to you. 
At this point I'm just curious if its me or the hardware.


----------



## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

I will be installing P six with USB HEC card coming Sunday. With the USB HEC card in the P six will I be able to use optical input of DSP also?


----------



## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

jsolo53 said:


> I'm using an iphone running jremote. Files are stored remotely.



Can you explain in more detail how and where your files are stored and is it lossless transmission?


----------



## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

I have a Helix DSP.2 with HEC and a Director. Normally, I use my Alpine with a fat iPod to play music via RCAs but I want to ditch the head unit and use an Android tablet. I was skeptical as to the benefits of an all digital signal path to the DSP until I tried it when I recently swapped out my old DSP with the new Helix. While it's not quite like going from cassette to CD, the improvement is noticeable enough to warrant full time adoption. However, what the Alpine does is work. Ignition key on, it boots up and plays. I don't have to mess with anything until I rip new music and need to sync the iPod again.

I can get audio to play through the HEC from an iPad mini gen1 via cam kit, Samsung S8+ phone, Samsung Tab S3 tablet, and Nvidia Shield tablet. The Shield is what I want to use in the car since it's the perfect size, however, I cannot get audio AND charge the Android tablets with anything I have tried so far. USB OTG adapters allow audio to play but as soon as I connect a USB charger, audio quits. I can charge my phone with a Qi puck but then I'd have to connect the USB cable for audio every time I get in the car... umm, NO. I want my audio source to just be in the car and I don't want to have to disconnect it to charge it or any other BS. When I turn the key and the accessory outlet powers up the USB charger, I want playback to resume. I'm pretty sure that's a reasonable expectation.

For the old iPad mini. It works, sorta. Camera connection kit adapter allow audio and keeps the tablet juiced, but the audio intermittently cuts out. So far, using the Neutron app. I guess I'll try with the Onkyo app. All I have tried thus far are 44.1/16bit FLAC tracks.

The Lava nSTS 3U is a USB interface and simultaneous charging for Samsung tablets. I received it a few days ago. I gave it a solid effort, followed installation instructions but it didn't work for my Tab S3. Several hours into this and still no viable solution. Irritating, to say the least. I have a Samsung Tab A 32GB 8" on order.

Not bashing on Helix at all. Great product. Having a difficult time with making use of the USB-HEC the way I'd like to. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

Can anyone provide a link ( s ) to more info regarding how to connect an iPhone to the Helix DSP via USB hd audio hec ? I have a USB port in my center console that charges and plays iTunes and various 3rd party apps via my iPhone at different bit depths and sample rates and want to figure out if I can incorporate the hec usb with the USB port in the center console. Thanks in advance!


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ChaseUTB said:


> Can anyone provide a link ( s ) to more info regarding how to connect an iPhone to the Helix DSP via USB hd audio hec ? I have a USB port in my center console that charges and plays iTunes and various 3rd party apps via my iPhone at different bit depths and sample rates and want to figure out if I can incorporate the hec usb with the USB port in the center console. Thanks in advance!


you would just remove the oem USB port and install a new one that runs into your helix. from there you can plug in your iPhone cable and play as normal


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Gadget01 said:


> I have a Helix DSP.2 with HEC and a Director. Normally, I use my Alpine with a fat iPod to play music via RCAs but I want to ditch the head unit and use an Android tablet. I was skeptical as to the benefits of an all digital signal path to the DSP until I tried it when I recently swapped out my old DSP with the new Helix. While it's not quite like going from cassette to CD, the improvement is noticeable enough to warrant full time adoption. However, what the Alpine does is work. Ignition key on, it boots up and plays. I don't have to mess with anything until I rip new music and need to sync the iPod again.
> 
> I can get audio to play through the HEC from an iPad mini gen1 via cam kit, Samsung S8+ phone, Samsung Tab S3 tablet, and Nvidia Shield tablet. The Shield is what I want to use in the car since it's the perfect size, however, I cannot get audio AND charge the Android tablets with anything I have tried so far. USB OTG adapters allow audio to play but as soon as I connect a USB charger, audio quits. I can charge my phone with a Qi puck but then I'd have to connect the USB cable for audio every time I get in the car... umm, NO. I want my audio source to just be in the car and I don't want to have to disconnect it to charge it or any other BS. When I turn the key and the accessory outlet powers up the USB charger, I want playback to resume. I'm pretty sure that's a reasonable expectation.
> 
> ...




Well, first off, the developers of these tablets and smartphones had no intentions of these being used in an automotive environment in the way that we are trying to use them, so we shouldn't really expect them to _just work_ like a standard car audio head unit. We're just lucky when they sometimes do work! 

If you haven't done this already and don't mind spending a few bucks, purchase and download the Android *USB Audio Player Pro* app from the Google Play Store to your Tab S3.

The UAPP app has special USB drivers and also completely replaces the stock Android audio kernal to allow for true Hi-Res & DSD sampling rates.

I can't guarantee that this will solve the issue, but it works on my Galaxy Tab S2 8.0, though I have the International version with GSM Cell phone and 3G/LTE data (#SM-T715Y), so the firmware could be different in addition to being an older version of Android that might allow for this to work.

A lot of custom functions and processes can be controlled in these Android devices if you can root them and install the _Tasker_ app. The _Tasker_ app allows you to control the sequence of various functions and events on an "if, and, or, when, then do this" basis. But it's quite involved and takes a lot of trial & error testing.

But taking this on depends on how much aptitude and patience you have for these types of things. But I would first try the _UAPP_ app.


----------



## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

bbfoto said:


> If you haven't done this already and don't mind spending a few bucks, purchase and download the Android *USB Audio Player Pro* app from the Google Play Store to your Tab S3.


UAPP was the music player I have been trying from the get-go. I prefer the UI of the Onkyo app but portrait orientation is the only "option" which is kind of a bummer. If you could fix this for me, that'd be great  



bbfoto said:


> A lot of custom functions and processes can be controlled in these Android devices if you can root them and install the _Tasker_ app. The _Tasker_ app allows you to control the sequence of various functions and events on an "if, and, or, when, then do this" basis. But it's quite involved and takes a lot of trial & error testing.


The fancy-pants expensive Lava hub has so far proven to be a not much more than a paperweight. I purchased a Tab A 8.0 T380 and installed a 200GB microSD card. I use MediaMonkey to sync my library and UAPP to play thru USB via a regular USB-C powered hub, which keeps the tablet charged.

I've been trial-and-error (mostly error) testing with Tasker to automate wake/sleep functions when the charger powers on via the accessory socket. I got it working the way I wanted at my desk, but in the car... not so much just yet. The great experiment continues.

In order to resume playback after a shutdown, I have to disconnect the USB hub from the tablet and plug it back in, or else the tablet doesn't recognize the HEC and plays thru its own speaker.

Solve one problem, move onto the next...


----------



## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

anyone tried now using fiio x7ii or fiio x5iii via hec usb?

im trying my fiio x7ii now but there's no sound comes out. if i use my cc3 via iphone with onkyo app its working but in fiio i tried the default fiio player and spotify it doesn't work. is there a setting that needs to be changed? like if we use optical, coax and lineout there's an option. but i cant see where the usb out option is


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I tried my FiiO X5 in usb mode, I got a connection but the signal was just digital noise.
So I installed Onkyo HD and it works but there is something wrong with it at well. The audio level is low and just sounds off compared to my Samsung tablet.
The coax out of the FiiO seems to work just great though.


----------



## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

geartech said:


> I tried my FiiO X5 in usb mode, I got a connection but the signal was just digital noise.
> So I installed Onkyo HD and it works but there is something wrong with it at well. The audio level is low and just sounds off compared to my Samsung tablet.
> The coax out of the FiiO seems to work just great though.


are you using OTG? and also how did you do it? is there an option that you have to choose if you want via usb out ? did you just plug it in? spotify or the fiio music player it makes no sound at all?


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

geartech said:


> I tried my FiiO X5 in usb mode, I got a connection but the signal was just digital noise.
> So I installed Onkyo HD and it works but there is something wrong with it at well. The audio level is low and just sounds off compared to my Samsung tablet.
> The coax out of the FiiO seems to work just great though.


this happened to me too...fiio X5 with the FW update for usb audio and an OTG cable...i just got digital hiss that sounds like white noise.


----------



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I think I'm going back to the FiiO and coax out just for the ability to charge the player while its connected. 
With the USB connection I have to swap connections every time I need to charge, With the coax it will allow me to connect my Qi charger and place it on the center console to charge wireless.


----------



## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh ok anyone tried comparing optical vs coax in their fiio’s or other brand dap’s?


----------

