# Any such thing as a 15" SQ subwoofer??



## divvide (Apr 4, 2009)

I have heard and read countless times how a 15" subwoofer can never be as responsive as a 12"er... there must be a company out there that beefs up the magnet and structure to accomodate for the bigger and much more sluggish cone area. Anybody know of such a subwoofer?? I want to install one in a sealed enclosure.. that would fit in the back of a 2dr 1982 vw rabbit.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

yup...how does a JBL W15GTi or an Aurasound NS15 sound?


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

I think that the amplifier required is usually the bigger deterrent... but JBL or TAD would be my choices.


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

yes, there are SQ 15's out there. Image Dynamics 15's always sounded great free-air. free-air with good power for control is key IMO


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I have some of the best there ever was forsale now- Image Dynamics IDW15s. Not going to be output monsters you would drive around and knock garbage cans down with the bass...but they do sound fantastic.


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## BLACKonBLACK98 (Apr 5, 2008)

Any such thing as a SQ subwoofer??


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## Fixtion (Aug 25, 2006)

you mean sq subwoofer as in someone using a sub woofer based on it's parameters and application?
yeah, all of them.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

divvide said:


> I have heard and read countless times how a 15" subwoofer can never be as responsive as a 12"er... there must be a company out there that beefs up the magnet and structure to accomodate for the bigger and much more sluggish cone area. Anybody know of such a subwoofer?? I want to install one in a sealed enclosure.. that would fit in the back of a 2dr 1982 vw rabbit.


These guys from Oregon don't know what they're talking about. That dude from Salem, and the one from Portland? Ignore them.

The only way to get fast bass is to use a fast woofer, and obviously a fifteen is way too slow and sluggish. You should use an eight inch woofer, or better yet a tweeter.

*Yeah, that's it!* A tweeter is what you need.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

I can vouch for the SDX15. CSS makes some quality drivers.


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

divvide said:


> I have heard and read countless times how a 15" subwoofer can never be as responsive as a 12"er....


Well the people saying and writing that are clueless! Simple.


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## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

Arc 15


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## Neel (Mar 4, 2009)

IDQ15v2!! 

Straight from TC sounds website...
One of the biggest myths about woofers is that 8’s and 10’s are “tighter” and “cleaner” than 15’s or 18’s. Nothing is further from the truth. What tends to happen is that the smaller drivers have lower Q’s because manufactures tend to put large cones on smaller motors to increase SPL and sensitivity but not BL product. Well unless the motor can compensate for the extra mass it has to push, then the Qts will not be the same as the smaller drivers and ultimately the driver may not be suited for the same kinds of alignments and could ring too much and compromise the perceived sound quality. Having said that, high Qts drivers are not any less “tight” or “musical” than well dampened drivers, it’s just they require larger boxes and less internal pressure to prevent ringing. Ultimately there becomes a point where a driver really should be used in an infinite baffle where its actual Qts and Fs becomes the system Qtc and Fc. As enclosure volume decreases, Qtc increases and it will take a driver with a low Qts to make for an average Q system. So in conclusion, the only reason to use a smaller bass driver is for space, weight and potentially power considerations, but likewise, it is inappropriate to try and fit a larger driver into a space smaller than it is ideal for.


(Audiopulse Myths About Subwoofers)


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## 12vTools (Jan 15, 2009)

Dudleston FTW


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

divvide said:


> I have heard and read countless times how a 15" subwoofer can never be as responsive as a 12"er...


Where do they get this stuff? 

OK, lets stop for a minute and forget about car audio. Do you realize that some of the best recording engineers around the world use large 3-ways w/ dual 15" woofers as monitors for mid-field and far-field playback in the control room? Also, even larger subs are used.


- Custom Active Westlake 3-way BBSM-15 Main monitors mounted on 2000-pound Sand pillars, 
Top end powered by Bryston 4b amplifier, 
Bottoms powered by Bryston 14b Dual Monoblock power amplifier, 
Dual 18" Subs powered by Crown 3600 amplifiers,
Crossed over with Bryston Active Crossovers









Dual 16" TAD subs in a HUGE 10 cube enclosures each.









Do you think these guys are using "SLOW" drivers? The same guys that actually know more about sound than we will ever know and actually record sound for a living.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-469

Works well for me in 1.5 cu^ft sealed.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

^^ Yup I heard it. Low, loud, and quick.


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

Patrick Bateman said:


> These guys from Oregon don't know what they're talking about. That dude from Salem, and the one from Portland? Ignore them.
> 
> The only way to get fast bass is to use a fast woofer, and obviously a fifteen is way too slow and sluggish. You should use an eight inch woofer, or better yet a tweeter.
> 
> *Yeah, that's it!* A tweeter is what you need.


I have some 24" tweeters here if you need them, just drive down this weekend ...


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## Guy (Feb 16, 2006)

Patrick Bateman said:


> These guys from Oregon don't know what they're talking about. That dude from Salem, and the one from Portland? Ignore them.
> 
> The only way to get fast bass is to use a fast woofer, and obviously a fifteen is way too slow and sluggish. You should use an eight inch woofer, or better yet a tweeter.
> 
> *Yeah, that's it!* A tweeter is what you need.


I've heard from people that you can't use paper cone woofers up in Washington. 
The ambient humidity adds too much weight to the cone and makes for a sluggish response. You have to use metal or plastic cone woofers up there.
But even then you are trying to push the sound through all that moist air so it never really sounds right. 
Folks in Washington can't get the really good SQ.















I better add this


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

How about a 12" that hits like an 18" and snaps like an 8"... lol... weighs in at 17lbs too...lol.. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sublimewind/Subwoofer%20Pics/DSC05680.jpg


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

Guy said:


> I've heard from people that you can't use paper cone woofers up in Washington.
> The ambient humidity adds too much weight to the cone and makes for a sluggish response. You have to use metal or plastic cone woofers up there.
> But even then you are trying to push the sound through all that moist air so it never really sounds right.
> Folks in Washington can't get the really good SQ.
> ...


That's nothing, you should see what the have to do down south because it's so humid. they use woofer cones made from linen or burlap sacks. the cones need to breathe........


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## divvide (Apr 4, 2009)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> How about a 12" that hits like an 18" and snaps like an 8"... lol... weighs in at 17lbs too...lol..
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sublimewind/Subwoofer%20Pics/DSC05680.jpg


i wish


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## BLACKonBLACK98 (Apr 5, 2008)

Fixtion said:


> you mean sq subwoofer as in someone using a sub woofer based on it's parameters and application?
> yeah, all of them.


my point exactly (in case you missed the sarcasm).


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

Guy said:


> I've heard from people that you can't use paper cone woofers up in Washington.
> The ambient humidity adds too much weight to the cone and makes for a sluggish response. You have to use metal or plastic cone woofers up there.
> But even then you are trying to push the sound through all that moist air so it never really sounds right.
> Folks in Washington can't get the really good SQ.
> ...


Ok well i guess i give up. Anyone need some subs and speakers?


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

DLS Iridium 15 is great SQ driver!


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## Pseudonym (Apr 17, 2006)

my AA avalanche was said to be pretty good.


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## el_bob-o (Nov 8, 2008)

I've always liked the Infinity Beta 15


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

IDW15, Arc 15, S15d, SPL160, KEF KAR15, Stroker 15, 15" Power DVC, NS15, 15W6, 15W5, and some others I'm leaving out.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

AE IB15


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

http://www.dls.se/files/611/2/IR15_autohifi_4-2005.pdf


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

I like my DD15's in a ported enclosure for sq


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## thormx (Sep 16, 2007)

my ported tc3000 sounded pretty nice


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## tmieczkowski (Jan 5, 2009)

i have a very high Q, strong BL 15" paper cone woofer that was originally designed for a ported system running IB with a boat load of power to it in my BMW. It rocks the house and gets REAL low. 15 Hz lets you know its there


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

+1 for Dayton Reference 15"

I kinda want to grab their 15" HO just out of spite. I think it's a perfect option for just about any car setup:
-cone area
-decent throw
-tons of power handling AND decent sensitivity
- _b r o a d_ usable frequency range
-(relatively) tiny enclosure for a 15" (HO)


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

tmieczkowski said:


> i have a very high Q, strong BL 15" paper cone woofer that was originally designed for a ported system running IB with a boat load of power to it in my BMW. It rocks the house and gets REAL low. 15 Hz lets you know its there


What's your sub?


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## tmieczkowski (Jan 5, 2009)

its something matt at ID cooked up years ago while they were experimenting with different things for the IDMAX. almost a one off


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

High Qts does that. For a large 15" with a high Qts, 20Hz shouldn't be a problem as long as it has the throw to support it without compression. That's kind of why many car audio subs you find are pretty high Qts. They'll do 30Hz without a problem. A number of them don't have the air moving capability to get loud cleanly though.


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## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

tmieczkowski said:


> its something matt at ID cooked up years ago while they were experimenting with different things for the IDMAX. almost a one off


Are those one offs with chrome plated basket and back plate and dual magnets?


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## tmieczkowski (Jan 5, 2009)

dual magnets yes, chrome baskets, no...
rather an ugly woofer if i do say so.
stamped black steel basket, dual mags, big heavy pulp cone.
parabolic foam surround

sounds like a million bucks tho


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Funny!  I think 2DEEP2, Anthony Davis was pulling your chain.  His custom subs were one offs too...and Chrome plated to boot.   I guess ID did several so called one offs?













So what happened to the OP? He has yet to post again? Well....I guess he found some fast 12's? :laugh:


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

MB Quart PWE352. Definitely an SQ sub and made by that anti-SQ company Rockford.


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## left channel (Jul 9, 2008)

WLDock said:


> Funny!  I think 2DEEP2, Anthony Davis was pulling your chain.  His custom subs were one offs too...and Chrome plated to boot.   I guess ID did several so called one offs?


Ive had a few pairs of id one off midbass and mids over the years. there's a lot of benefits to living close to the factory and knowing the ID guys.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Any sub that can play near a flat curve in your car is a SQ sub....so it mostly comes down to the right sub in the right install. Now there are a few SPL type subs that want to play 50Hz best, and way more that will have a poor curve in a spec box. And there are some you will have to EQ to make work right.

I was amazed when I had a nice parametric on my IB subs (that I replaced with a P880PRS HU). I could make them sound any way you wanted from tight to thunder like a HT or both. I still can't get that kind of control with the EQ in the HU, I might have to put it back in. I plan on going to 15s, maybe the AE. I did find a cheap sub that looks promising for IB, a pyle chopper series 15 it has a Fs of 20Hz but a huge ugly basket. I see Fi made some IB subs too, also many seem to like the daytons. Of course don't get an IB sub if you want to use a box, you need the opposite of that.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

jonnyanalog said:


> MB Quart PWE352. Definitely an SQ sub and made by that anti-SQ company Rockford.


Yep. I'm running a pair of RWE352s in 1.88 cubes each, sealed. I hope they don't overhear that 15s aren't SQ enough.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

TREETOP said:


> Yep. I'm running a pair of RWE352s in 1.88 cubes each, sealed. I hope they don't overhear that 15s aren't SQ enough.



Yeah Treetop, I've been meaning to ask you how you're liking your MB's? A little insight would be appreciated.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

I'd consider the new JL 15wov2 as well


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## NOTORIOUS97200 (Dec 11, 2008)

Take a look at Soundsolutionsaudio.com : their Icon line is fantastic ! I love my 15" Icon in its ported box, but it can be really good in a small sealed box.

The Xcons are "louder" though.
What are your goals, and what amp will you use ?


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

sqshoestring said:


> Any sub that can play near a flat curve in your car is a SQ sub....so it mostly comes down to the right sub in the right install. Now there are a few SPL type subs that want to play 50Hz best, and way more that will have a poor curve in a spec box. And there are some you will have to EQ to make work right.
> 
> I was amazed when I had a nice parametric on my IB subs (that I replaced with a P880PRS HU). I could make them sound any way you wanted from tight to thunder like a HT or both. I still can't get that kind of control with the EQ in the HU, I might have to put it back in. I plan on going to 15s, maybe the AE. I did find a cheap sub that looks promising for IB, a pyle chopper series 15 it has a Fs of 20Hz but a huge ugly basket. I see Fi made some IB subs too, also many seem to like the daytons. Of course don't get an IB sub if you want to use a box, you need the opposite of that.


While frequency response is important, don't overlook these too:


*Low Distortion*
Due to the Fletcher Munson curves, the distortion produced by a subwoofer is often more audible than the fundamental.
*Inductance*
High power handling leads to high inductance, and high inductance leads to distortion. Low inductance subwoofers are audibly superior. Yet 90% of the subs sold have gobs of inductance.
*Location, Location, Location!*
The location of your subwoofer can affect the soundstaging of the entire system, despite the myth that sub location doesn't matter.


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## Steak (Mar 16, 2006)

so far Im really liking my Focal 38Kx, in 5 cubes tuned to 42Hz

Very low Le of 1.1 mH 

Fast as Fvck!!


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Patrick Bateman said:


> While frequency response is important, don't overlook these too:
> 
> 
> *Low Distortion*
> ...


True, a sub that is relatively cheap with big power handling can be terrible with this. I have a cheap sony that pretty much crosses itself over at 100Hz. They can also have cone noise (mechanical). I've been able to make the right really cheap sub work well (in the right install) with light power, but with bigger power I had to move up in quality to keep SQ. Also depends on how high you run your sub, I tend to run them 70-40Hz and not higher.


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