# Need Very Loud Mids And Highs



## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

Well its finaly got to the point i can no longer hold off on ordering my mids and highs for my bass race astro. Ik this is probally an odd request (on this site) but im looking for some realy loud mids and tweeters, that wont sound harsh (not a pa speaker fan by anymeans). I have a budget of around 1k for all the drivers. Amps will be Sundown 100.4's or 100.2's, depending on the drivers picked out. The doors arnt extremly huge in the astro but could easly fit a bunch of smaller drivers (6.5's and tweeters). Keep in mind this is gonna have to keep up w/ bass in the high 50's on music. I guess im leaving this up to you guys but i was thinking about 8 mids and 8 tweeters per door (similar to HO Problems, for those who know who he is). Comment and concerns. I know this isnt the kind of stuff you guys are into, but when it comes to diy mids and highs you guys are the only opions i trust.

Corey


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

You can go with pro audio compression horns if you can fit them or piezo tweeter and some pro audio mids like B&C...you can start here http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm


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## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

Honestly dont think i have room under the dash for horns. The underside of the dash is VERY narrow.

Corey


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Why not run a pair of 6.5s and a pair of tweets? Should be plenty loud just pick the brand you like. I hope you are wearing earplugs while doing this...


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## low_end (Dec 5, 2007)

Corey Anderson said:


> Honestly dont think i have room under the dash for horns. The underside of the dash is VERY narrow.
> 
> Corey


you could go with image dynamics minihorns and cut the outer flanges


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## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

haibane said:


> Why not run a pair of 6.5s and a pair of tweets? Should be plenty loud just pick the brand you like. I hope you are wearing earplugs while doing this...


I think you under estimate how loud a 158 + on music is.

Corey


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## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

low_end said:


> you could go with image dynamics minihorns and cut the outer flanges


Thats possible, ik my ID horns wont fit, but there the full bodies.

Corey


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Corey Anderson said:


> I think you under estimate how loud a 158 + on music is.
> 
> Corey


I still don't know why you even bother with mids/highs on a SPL car. Seems like a waste to me.... although I admit think SPL is a waste too.


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## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

havok20222 said:


> I still don't know why you even bother with mids/highs on a SPL car. Seems like a waste to me.... although I admit think SPL is a waste too.


Its far from a pure SPL set up. The sub set up is 100% musical. Like i said, ik this isnt your guys tastes, but hey different kicks for different chicks.

Corey


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

How about a couple pairs of ribbon tweeters and a couple high efficiency pro mids?

I take it whe you say "your'e not a pa speaker fan" you are refereing to horns.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Look at Kicker SS components man... very efficient, not bad sound (for your needs) and should be able to get really loud, considering effiency.. and they look KILLER..


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## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

durwood said:


> How about a couple pairs of ribbon tweeters and a couple high efficiency pro mids?
> 
> I take it whe you say "your'e not a pa speaker fan" you are refereing to horns.


Correct, i should have said that. I hate the sound of most PA tweeters and horns. Some of the mids arnt bad, i will admit that but i cant stand the sound of the bullet tweeters and horns.

Corey


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## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

http://www.creativesound.ca/

4-6 SDX-7's
4-6 FR125S's
2 ribbons

Shallow depths all the way around, should give you a good full range sound, and should be able to keep up with 150's. Might be a little above budget, but pretty close.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Efficiency of the drivers is what is the defining characteristic, less power and will play louder= higher efficiency. 

I would look at pro drivers and I know where the level you speak of is at [ I believe that a 155 is pretty close to winning some classes at DBDrag racing events ].


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

3-4 pairs of these down each apillar depending on how long the pillar is.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-085 

don't know about mids at the moment, but ya, 4-8 pairs in each door should do it as long as they are high efficiency.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Possible mids-

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-015

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=294-650

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-399


take your pick

http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm

Disclaimer: I have no experience using any of these drivers.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

I bought a set of Infinity Kappas when I first was getting into car audio and had a tighter budget. These things are insanely efficient - insanely! Personally, they were too bright for my tastes, but efficiency is a lot cheaper than buying more power if you want some serious output. If you mounted the kappa tweeters somewhere that they had to reflect off some cloth or other high end absorbing materials, you might be able to get away with a better high end.

Sadly, I don't know of any other car audio speakers (aside from the horns others are listing here) that come in at 95db with 1 watt input.

Good luck!


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Try some Beymas!!!
http://www.usspeaker.com/Beyma Car Audio-1.htm


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

2 - sets of Critical Mass C652 high-passed around 120HZ with 1,600 watts RMS.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

we've seen 158 on music. guy had three component sets in his single cab truck and 150x6 via multiple amps to power them all.

You want big mid and big highs, you can increase efficiency by increasing the number of drivers used


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Just do this and be done with it.... 






















LAWLS.... JK


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## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Just do this and be done with it....


Wow. Just, wow.


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## Corey Anderson (Jul 25, 2007)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Just do this and be done with it....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol, i remember seeing that picture on ca.com about a year ago. funny non the less


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

What is this sound of horns and pro gear?

But I hate to break a few things to you...you aren't playing music at 158 dB. Your bass might be that loud, but your mids will NEVER get that loud.

Pro gear tuned right will be the route you need to go to get loud and not blow everything up every other week.

And Tommy's mids were metered in the low 120s at IASCA/IdBL Finals. I have had 4 8s and a set of horns louder than that.

Back in the day, you would see people with 2 8s, 2 6s, and 2 tweeters in each door of an Astro.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

If you need loud, you really need large mids. 8" at the minimum, 10-12" more ideally. You also have more options besides hlcd's, such as horn loaded ribbon tweeters. You don't really need 2 ribbons as some have suggested, as there are plenty of long ribbons that are >100db sensitivity already.

I think PHL makes a great high efficiency 7" mid, if you want to do a bunch of them.


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## Mike Hall (Jun 30, 2006)

You cant get any louder than horns as fars as highs go. LOL I had Image CD1's paired up with Morel 9" midbass drivers in my SPL/SQ car. This thing was LOUD and very clean sounding. The mids and highs could keep up with the strokers for the most part. Oh the horns had a Power 1000 on them as well as the Mids and the strokers had two BD1000's per sub.  

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4437

Mike


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

I don't think there is anything that an active Dynaudio 3-way setup can't keep up with.

Even the older model MkII systems will do. Those drivers will handle all the power you can throw at them. I'd say a Sundown 100.4 to the midranges and tweeters and another 100.4 bridged to the midbasses. 

LOUD. Mount the midranges and tweeters on-axis in the pillars and they'll singe off your eyebrows.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bigabe said:


> I don't think there is anything that an active Dynaudio 3-way setup can't keep up with.
> 
> Even the older model MkII systems will do. Those drivers will handle all the power you can throw at them. I'd say a Sundown 100.4 to the midranges and tweeters and another 100.4 bridged to the midbasses.
> 
> LOUD. Mount the midranges and tweeters on-axis in the pillars and they'll singe off your eyebrows.


Are you kiddin'? Dynaudio must have some top of the charts marketing working for them. Nothing short of a couple oversize PA drivers can get close to that 150+ target spl.


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

I honestly don't think the dude is gonna be sitting in the car enjoying his mids and highs while his subs are putting out 150dB+... if he does, he's gonne have much bigger concerns than whether or not his front stage is blending well... 

My 3-way Dyn setup is louder than anybody could ever need in a car... ok, it's a little on the overkill side at 1000 watts, but it's loud and clear. I thought that was the point here.

Don't get all DIY snob on me just cause I'm recommending Dyns...


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't think it is DIY snobbery...I love Dynaudio as much as the next guy, but there is no way that a Dyn 3 way set will be louder than a set of horns and some 8 or 10" midbasses.


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

Didn't he say he didn't want horns?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bigabe said:


> I honestly don't think the dude is gonna be sitting in the car enjoying his mids and highs while his subs are putting out 150dB+... if he does, he's gonne have much bigger concerns than whether or not his front stage is blending well...
> 
> My 3-way Dyn setup is louder than anybody could ever need in a car... ok, it's a little on the overkill side at 1000 watts, but it's loud and clear. I thought that was the point here.
> 
> Don't get all DIY snob on me just cause I'm recommending Dyns...


But...not much different power handling wise than any 3 way set of the same size from any reputable hi-fi brand (Scan, Seas, Peerless etc). When you claim Dyns can do "anything" I tend to think there is magic dust used in one way or another.

The guy has a goal and he is asking opinions. To be realistic anything short of PA drivers is unrealistic for that db goal. I'm not judging his dreams, simply the approach which is what we are talking about here. Hi-fi has no use in this setup, unless as stated he uses 8 sets.

I run 1.5kw to my front stage on some of the most sensitive hi-fi drivers on the market...and I run a lot of them. To say my setup can hit anywhere near 150dbs is beyond realistic. There is no reason to try hi-fi drivers in this territory, I have no doubt that they will sound worse than PA at high output as well.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Just do this and be done with it........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> But...not much different power handling wise than any 3 way set of the same size from any reputable hi-fi brand (Scan, Seas, Peerless etc). When you claim Dyns can do "anything" I tend to think there is magic dust used in one way or another.
> 
> The guy has a goal and he is asking opinions. To be realistic anything short of PA drivers is unrealistic for that db goal. I'm not judging his dreams, simply the approach which is what we are talking about here. Hi-fi has no use in this setup, unless as stated he uses 8 sets.
> 
> I run 1.5kw to my front stage on some of the most sensitive hi-fi drivers on the market...and I run a lot of them. To say my setup can hit anywhere near 150dbs is beyond realistic. There is no reason to try hi-fi drivers in this territory, I have no doubt that they will sound worse than PA at high output as well.



You're missing my point, being a DIY snob, taking me out of context... and being an *******.

I shall now ignore you... for, to me, you are a retard.


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## pimpedout97x (Sep 4, 2007)

B&C 6PEV13.

loudest PA 6.5" IMO...its VERY effiecient....i dont think theres a louder 6.5" mid....


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## Steak (Mar 16, 2006)

well if you want loud components, don't get the Polk SRs. They just don't do it


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bigabe said:


> You're missing my point, being a DIY snob, taking me out of context... and being an *******.
> 
> I'm shall now ignore you... for, to me, you are a retard.


FWIW I don't believe there is such a thing as a "DIY snob." DIY is about being open minded, about achieving any goal you desire. There are plenty non-spl type guys enjoying a high output system on this board. 1 kw is not necessarily "overkill" for everyone, and I doubt you can actually use all of it. I'm not the one pushing my beliefs as universal truth.

You can take your DYNs and your recently enlarged penis and be all you can be. 

To the original poster: I have changed no less than 3 LCY ribbon elements in my car using them as a supertweeter 4khz and up. While I'm an ardent believer in ribbons, the harsh audio environment combined with higher than average SPL numbers will most probably mean higher maintenance costs and headaches. Personally I can't part with them, but it's something to keep in mind. 

There are some very good reasons to go PA. Less compression at high outputs, can play through breakup frequencies rather well, and fewer drivers. You could actually still time align a 2 or 3 way PA setup, not so much 3 HI-FI sets.


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## pimpedout97x (Sep 4, 2007)

on my mids alone im gonna have about 1600w rms, and another 600-700 for the tweets


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The only ribbon I would use in high SPL settings would be the Stage Accompany ribbons. The rest will blow to shreds with a high SPL system, especially trying to bass race. And if you can't fit horns...you aren't getting ribbons in your van easy.

Now if you want loud and don't care in the direction it is coming from, I have THE compression drivers for you...BMS 4591s. Put them on some proaudio 2" horns and yo can feed them 150 watts at 400 hertz and up with 1k watts peak at 500 and up. They are 118 dB efficient and capable of 136 dB of output with 150 watts from 500 hertz to 7k. Which, 136 dB is as loud as a jet taking off- you'll need a couple super tweeters like the Selenium ST350s per side and some 10" midbasses to keep up.


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> The only ribbon I would use in high SPL settings would be the Stage Accompany ribbons. The rest will blow to shreds with a high SPL system, especially trying to bass race. And if you can't fit horns...you aren't getting ribbons in your van easy.
> 
> Now if you want loud and don't care in the direction it is coming from, I have THE compression drivers for you...BMS 4591s. Put them on some proaudio 2" horns and yo can feed them 150 watts at 400 hertz and up with 1k watts peak at 500 and up. They are 118 dB efficient and capable of 136 dB of output with 150 watts from 500 hertz to 7k. Which, 136 dB is as loud as a jet taking off- you'll need a couple super tweeters like the Selenium ST350s per side and some 10" midbasses to keep up.


WOW, screw that shiiiiit. Talk about overkill, you'd seriously go deaf after 1 song with those going full bore. 2" is a bit harder to get a fit for though.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well it is and it isn't. A horn designed for a 1" driver can be shortened to accept a larger driver...it is the same area progression from a single source. You will have to calculate the differences in lengths to have the proper progression though.

But then the problem with doing that in a car is that the car horns really don't have any pattern control down real low...and to get pattern control, you are talking about LARGE horns as you get down low- too large to fit under the dash of a car.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

bigabe said:


> You're missing my point, being a DIY snob, taking me out of context... and being an *******.
> 
> I shall now ignore you... for, to me, you are a retard.


That's unfair man, cvjoint explained his view rationally and without insult. Debate your points, don't just name call.


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