# Operation: 8's in doors



## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I currently have a 3-way front stage with midbass in sealed kickpod enclosures and midrange in the factory door locations (albeit angled up and back for less off-axis mounting).
I decided to experiment by putting the midbass (Image Dynamics OEM 6.5") in IB setup in the door, but was disappointed compared to the sealed kickpods. Then I tried one of the old Kicker "freeair" F8c drivers I have had laying around forever (had to mount the basket facing the inside of the car since I am not ready to cut the doors yet), and I was really impressed with the punch and extension and effortless sound on bass guitar and other stuff I played. It was enough for me to decide to really take the plunge and get the doors more well "prepared" for what's going to be moving in.

This is going to be a slow process but for now I removed some of the deadening material from the inner skin (where there are large cutouts in the metal) and put deadening mat and mold-resistant foam sheeting on the outer skin. I glued the "socket" part of grille ball & socket plastic pieces inside each hole where the plastic door panel clips go, so those will at least be airtight and rattle-free. I'm probably going to fiberglass over the metal cutouts since they are so odd in shape (in a 3-D kind of way) that I can't use MDF or any other flat surface cutout to fill them in. I am going to reinforce the stock speaker mounting area after cutting out some metal, and then space out the midbass with two 3/4" MDF rings soaked in fiberglass resin/hardener so they'll be moisture resistant. And check for & try to plug up air leaks to the extent possible along the way.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

Should be a cool project. What kind of car?


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## Tonyguy (Nov 15, 2007)

I believe it's an Acura TSX. I could be wrong though.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Tonyguy said:


> I believe it's an Acura TSX. I could be wrong though.


Give that man a prize!


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Picked up some more of the mildew-resistant foam. Usually it's expensive but Hobby Lobby had it for 60% off. Just a pic for now of testing the midbass response in a temporary setup with basket facing out.


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

cool! Havent seen "magnet out" on doors in quite a few years! Hope it all works well for you.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks but magnet-out is just for testing so I don't have to cut sheet metal in the door just yet. The woofer was attached to the door via reducing MDF spacers to adapt it to an opening for a 6" speaker. It would be interesting to keep it magnet-out, since it'll only be playing up to around 170Hz, but it protrudes too much from the door. Eventually I'll be cutting sheet metal.




syd-monster said:


> cool! Havent seen "magnet out" on doors in quite a few years! Hope it all works well for you.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Brief update...
Made one of the hole "plugs" out of sheet metal after tracing the outline on paper. This one is pretty big, about the size of a standard sheet of printer paper. Used about 20 sheet metal screws to secure it to the door and sandwiched some foam stripping between to make it airtight. Then put a piece of dynamat over and called it a night. Only 5 more big to take care of (2 on this door & then the 3 on the other door) and 4 small holes (2 on each door)


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Subscribed to this as I am stumbling over how to get 8's in my doors as well.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

It'll be a few days till I get another update on here, but here is what I am thinking are the next steps:

- fill the other holes. The big holes will be filled with sheet metal like above, the small ones (with wires going thru) will be filled by placing damping mat over and silicone between the wire and the mat where the wire goes thru.
- cut the MDF mounting rings. Looks like I'll need two 3/4" rings for each driver. I'll glue the rings together and coat them in fiberglass resin/hardener to make them impervious to moisture.
- cut the sheet metal around the factory speaker location to accomodate the 8" driver.
- reinforce the sheet metal around the now bigger mounting opening. I am thinking I'll remove the damping mat there and scrape down to bare sheet metal on the door skin and strengthen it with bondo-glass. This will serve a 2nd purpose of being an adapter for a flat plane to mount the MDF rings to (the inner door skin is not flat enough to mount the rings directly to it).
- put the top half of the door panel on so that the window sill part is pretty much sealed, put in the 8" driver and test for leaks, then plug up whatever leaks I can except of course for the water drainage holes at the bottom of the door.
- the rest will be cosmetic, I need to make some kind of bottom part of the door panel...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Just a quick update...
I finally got all the metal plates marked up, cut, and installed to cover the large door openings. I removed the **** mat that I had on the doors and put dynamat extreme on the inner skin (also cut pieces to put over the metal plates I screwed into the doors, so the screws can be accessed and the plates can be removed without taking off the dynamat).

I also ended up ordering a pair of Morel CW8 8" midbass from Solen since they were on deep discount, and plan to use them instead of my Kicker freeairs, but they have not come in yet  They said it takes 10 days for shipment due to customs, etc.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I cant wait to see how this turns out.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Forgot to mention, I also mounted the Kicker freeair backwards again onto the door and ran it without a HP filter to check for air leaks and vibrations. Buzzing is almost non-existent (I kept banging my knuckles and fist on the inside of the door when I was deadening it to find out where vibrations were coming from and tried to take care of as much as I could that way).
There is air escaping from the water drainage slots at the bottom of the door (as expected) and some air escaping (unfortunately it is also audible, even with the windows rolled up) from where the rubber guide touches the window across the top of the door panel. I was not running a HP filter so if I run these as dedicated midbass, this may not be an issue...will just have to wait and see.


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## BMWTUBED (Aug 25, 2007)

Subscribed


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

jsun_g said:


> There is air escaping from the water drainage slots at the bottom of the door (as expected) and some air escaping (unfortunately it is also audible, even with the windows rolled up) from where the rubber guide touches the window across the top of the door panel.


 That is an issue in every car, but particularly cars with frame less glass. I helped a friend in a DC2 Integra (similar car, but you call it an Acura) and used a dremel to increase the size of the bottom drainige holes, by 100%. So the holes became much larger, but we also treated the holes with etch primer & fish oil to make sure the exposed sheet metal (as small as it was) didn't rust. These holes vent to the exterior so no sound wave cancelation issue, and we managed to reduce the amount of air/sound coming out from the upper window so much that we couldn't hear it.



> I was not running a HP filter so if I run these as dedicated midbass, this may not be an issue...will just have to wait and see.


 This will also help. Good luck with it, 8's up front it worth all this effort, spesh if your running them as IB'd Midbasses.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks mate. I will try that if the air seepage continues to be a problem when using the 8's as midbass. Another thing I am thinking about is to stick a thin layer of foam behind the rubber squeegie thing that hugs the window, so as to make it hug the window a little tighter and allow less air thru (not sure if my description makes any sense).

I can't wait to get these Morel drivers in and get to work. There is something about hearing ALL of a bass guitar in the front of the car when I tried the Kicker freeair 8's in the doors that convinced me to go thru this trouble.

Do you have any pics of the setup you guys did?




syd-monster said:


> That is an issue in every car, but particularly cars with frame less glass. I helped a friend in a DC2 Integra (similar car, but you call it an Acura) and used a dremel to increase the size of the bottom drainige holes, by 100%. So the holes became much larger, but we also treated the holes with etch primer & fish oil to make sure the exposed sheet metal (as small as it was) didn't rust. These holes vent to the exterior so no sound wave cancelation issue, and we managed to reduce the amount of air/sound coming out from the upper window so much that we couldn't hear it.
> 
> This will also help. Good luck with it, 8's up front it worth all this effort, spesh if your running them as IB'd Midbasses.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

carefull that the foam strip does not booger up your tint film


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Foam strip on the other side of the squeegie, pushing the squeegie tighter against the window. The foam itself won't touch the window. Hopefully a little bit of extra pressure won't hurt the tint.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

i think it's worth the trouble... i am so loookin forward to finishing my 8 inch door install. i have one side done,just need to fab a custom grill and it looks like f-glass is my only way out.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

keep it up...it's nice to see other hondas owners using 8's


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Good deal. Do you already have pics / a thread up on your setup?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/54564-06-civic-coupe-re-build-5.html


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Nice. Glad to see that you got it to fit under the stock plastic panel. How do they sound?



stinky06 said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/54564-06-civic-coupe-re-build-5.html


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

jsun_g said:


> Nice. Glad to see that you got it to fit under the stock plastic panel. How do they sound?


dunno yet...my job has me outta town alot,these days...vacation time commin up soon


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Finally made some more progress after receiving the Morel drivers.

Widened the speaker cut-out in the doors and cleaned out the area around the cutout so Bondo-glass will bond to it. Made MDF rings which are 3/4" thick at the top and 1.5" thick at the bottom, coated them in fiberglass resin & hardener, and mounted to door where they made contact with C-clamps. Then went to town filling in the remaining gaps between ring and door with Bondo-glass and finally counter-sunk screws. There is an oval-shape protrusion on the MDF ring...that is there as one place to attach the bottom half of the door panels when I make them.

I just connected them to the spkr wires my mids were using, which is bandpass from 170Hz-3.5kHz...not the intended range for these drivers but they didn't have any peaks in the midrange, just a natural roll-off. I'll eventually be using these from say 60hz to 170 or 200hz. When I tap on them, they have the same kind of resonance as a sub in an enclosure so I might even try using these all the way down for SQ judging. Hmmmmmm.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Chit! I have a pair of these too going into my doors, different label thought... Let us know how you like 'em!


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I am liking these Morel drivers in comparison to the Image Dynamics 6.5" OEM's which I was using in small sealed enclosures for midbass.
I let the Morels break in by playing them freeair overnight for a couple nights.
With the ID's in small f'glass enclosures at the kickpanels, their advantage was tight/snappy midbass, but at the expense of a NASTY response hump around 120-180Hz, response that really dropped off below around 70Hz and an overall congested sound in the midbass area. The EQ'ing I did to tame that nasty peak probably took out some details in the music too. I am sure a lot of that problem was due to the sealed enclosures, but I tried the ID's in the door and just didn't like them.

Fast forward to the Morels. I am running around 150W to each and after some tweaking am getting a better sound on things like bass guitar. A lot less congested for sure and less EQ'ing needed...I just have a 2dB cut at 125 and 2dB boost at 80. And they are x'd from 65 to 200, 24dB at both ends. I had to do some time delay on the 8's relative to the sub to get the response to line up at the xover point since neither normal nor reverse polarity on the subs produced much continuity.

The doors are holding up well to the 8's, even at full tilt. The Morels don't show any signs of stress at volumes that used to stress my ID's. There is some vibration coming from the plastic clip-on panel that I need to fix, but the doors themselves are solid. Just for some added rigidity on the inner door skins, I picked up some square tubular aluminum rod. I think I'll bolt the rod horizontally to the inner door skin in several places (I saw another member on here do this). No real problems with air pushing out of the window sill, etc.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Whats your plan for finishing the door panel ? 8's are totally worth the work.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Agree with ya there. But hey what's another 40 hours in a project you've already spent hundreds of hours over multiple iterations  I think I'm gonna puke.

I am planning on a fiberglass/MDF bottom panel...I'd like to make a big embossed Acura logo under the armrest in sheet metal for good durability against shoes kicking the door on entry/exit. I need to re-do my kickpanels and am thinking about doing a long grille type piece that extends from the 8" midbass in the door forward to the kickpanel, but of course is vertically cut where the front edge of the door is. I'd really like to do that instead of having just another kickpanel that looks like the floor gave birth to a vinyl pod. 
It'll be an interesting exercise in 3-D planning.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Nice job so far. But, do yourself a favor and make those MDF spacer rings out of plastic before you get too far. The MDF WILL eventually soak up moisture and you'll be ripping this whole thing apart in 1 to two years to repair. Do it right the first time. Do plastic.

Ge0


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Geo, thanks for your input. I coated the entire ring in fiberglass resin/hardener. Do you think that won't be adequate to block out moisture?




Ge0 said:


> Nice job so far. But, do yourself a favor and make those MDF spacer rings out of plastic before you get too far. The MDF WILL eventually soak up moisture and you'll be ripping this whole thing apart in 1 to two years to repair. Do it right the first time. Do plastic.
> 
> Ge0


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

You should be fine if you've coated the entire baffle in resin. That should keep it sealed up. Looking like good progress so far bud. Keep up the work! Dont let your project linger like mine did because its much harder to stay motivated then. 

The potential tough spots I see are in the lower front portion of the panels where your drivers are mounted. Make sure that when you do your panels, you have clearance to close the doors properly and clearance where the door meets up with the interior dash and kick panel areas. That was definitely an consideration/issue for my build.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

A (probably) shocking update... 

After many hours of work and then tweaking, I just couldn't get the sound I wanted with the 8" midbass in the doors and mids in kickpanels. The main strong point of having the 8's in the doors was better bass extension and power handling around 65-70Hz crossover point.
The drawbacks I found with this setup compared to my previous setup (with 6.5" midbass in the 0.2 ft^3 sealed kickpods and 5.25" mids in the doors) were many however...
- lack of midbass punch by comparison
- very difficult time with time delay and phasing
and the main problem...since I have fairly narrow car, the midranges which were mounted in the kickpanels had the driver's side speaker positioned pretty much directly in front of my left ear. Even with the midrange angled back and up, the left side of the soundstage was not as wide as it should be, and there was no avoiding the bottom of the dash, which partially blocked the speaker path. To sum it up, the soundstage width suffered greatly due to the kickpanel-mounted midranges, and the midbass punch was not up to par.

So I took out the 8's and rebuilt the door mounting locations to hold the 5.25" mids at about a 20-degree angle up and back, recessed into the door as much as possible while still allowing the window to clear. I put the 6.5" midbass back into the kickpanels, crossed from 70-180Hz and did some tweaking. It seems this setup is best-sounding one I have found in the past 5 years owning this car. Lesson learned...bigger midbass drivers aren't always better...there are a lot of other factors to consider.

I'm going to finish up the cosmetics of the lower door panel with the 5.25's in place and post pics on this thread.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

jsun_g said:


> Geo, thanks for your input. I coated the entire ring in fiberglass resin/hardener. Do you think that won't be adequate to block out moisture?


No, it won't. I spent a ton of time reading build threads on here and I've noticed a bunch of people who resined their MDF rings and later pulled them out because they were rotten.

I bought something called King Starboard to make mine...I got a piece that's like 18" x 36" x 1.5" for $60ish shipped on Ebay. I believe the seller was Cesany Plastics or something.

Jay


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Hmm...thats pretty strange. Perhaps those just werent the best midbasses for your taste. Did you try runnning them as the midrange/midbass as a 2 way to see what you thought?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah I tried the 8's and tweets as a 2-way setup and the 8's actually have a decent midrange response albeit the response trails off long before the tweet xover point. Even if I could have gotten punchier midbass out of them (maybe could have done that with a bit more EQ'ing), the increased PLD from having midbasses mounted in the doors and the location of mids in the kickpanels presented me with new/additional problems that I could not satisfactorily work around. I realize that the midrange drivers produce the bulk of the frequencies which I get my soundstage cues from, and for that the best postion for the mids was to mount them as far inside the doors as possible, angled slightly up and back...dash-mounting smaller (3" or 4") midranges just isn't an option for me because I don't have the space and am not about to do a custom dash build. It turns out that the door-mounted midranges have the exact same pathlength as their respective dash-mounted tweeters, which is another bonus.

At least now I don't have to be concerned about some midbass going away when I roll down the windows 




captainobvious said:


> Hmm...thats pretty strange. Perhaps those just werent the best midbasses for your taste. Did you try runnning them as the midrange/midbass as a 2 way to see what you thought?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks for the tip. I checked their site...I am curious if that stuff is good to use for sub boxes too. A few years ago, I was looking for MDF at a kitchen/bathroom builder's store and they recommended something called "wonder board"...they explained it is similar to MDF but made with tiny plastic particles instead of wood, and is impervious to moisture. I built a sub box with it and it was slightly lighter than MDF and worked out fine. I haven't been able to find that "wonder board" since I moved though.




JayinMI said:


> No, it won't. I spent a ton of time reading build threads on here and I've noticed a bunch of people who resined their MDF rings and later pulled them out because they were rotten.
> 
> I bought something called King Starboard to make mine...I got a piece that's like 18" x 36" x 1.5" for $60ish shipped on Ebay. I believe the seller was Cesany Plastics or something.
> 
> Jay


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> Geo, thanks for your input. I coated the entire ring in fiberglass resin/hardener. Do you think that won't be adequate to block out moisture?


That's all fine and dandy until you need to run a screw into the treated material. Breaches the seal. Hell, it does'nt even take that. My doors remain pretty darn dry. Yet, my treated rings I spent a week on soaked up moisture and crumbled apart within a year.

if you live in an extremely dry region you'll probably be OK. But, I live in the midwest with plenty-o-rainfall an high humdity. Here, MDF in door = no good.

Just a friendly warning.

Ge0


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Ge0 said:


> That's all fine and dandy until you need to run a screw into the treated material. Breaches the seal. Hell, it does'nt even take that. My doors remain pretty darn dry. Yet, my treated rings I spent a week on soaked up moisture and crumbled apart within a year.
> 
> if you live in an extremely dry region you'll probably be OK. But, I live in the midwest with plenty-o-rainfall an high humdity. Here, MDF in door = no good.
> 
> ...



I may think about doing the HDP myself as well. Even the Birch baffles I did a while back are showing signs of moisture damage. Bummer. Of course I didnt really coat them, but still...


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

...this is purely speculative and just suggesting (which is all you can really achieve on the net)
Just back on the 8's, Midbass is affected alot by phasing and physical mounting.
Is there a chance you had the 8's out of phase??
Or perhaps there was a little too much slack in the door mounting? not trying to suggest you're a hack or don't know what your doing, but even the best of us make a mistake every now and then.
I just didn't want to see you give up on the midbasses...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Hehehe, no offense taken man. I always like bouncing ideas and getting other perspectives.
I tried swapping phase on one of the midbass and tried time alignment to the nth degree, as well as swapping phase on the subs and playing midbass without subs, and playing with crossover frequencies. Also made sure the mounting was sturdy and everything was as airtight as possible. The midbass itself wasn't all that bad honestly, but my kickpanel pods were tighter sounding, using smaller drivers. The midbass wasn't the only problem...my soundstage suffered as well for reasons mentioned in above posts.
There's something about a nice solid midbass impact that sounds like it is coming from in front of the dash, that the kickpanel pods provide and the door-mounted midbasses did not. As with anything, a bit of experimentation and trial-and-error is needed, and it just turns out the sealed kickpod midbasses were more to my liking.




syd-monster said:


> ...this is purely speculative and just suggesting (which is all you can really achieve on the net)
> Just back on the 8's, Midbass is affected alot by phasing and physical mounting.
> Is there a chance you had the 8's out of phase??
> Or perhaps there was a little too much slack in the door mounting? not trying to suggest you're a hack or don't know what your doing, but even the best of us make a mistake every now and then.
> I just didn't want to see you give up on the midbasses...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Little bit of an update...

As mentioned earlier, I put the 5.25" mids back into the doors. They are inside of angled baffles which allow them to fire slightly up and back.
I started making the bottom part of the door panels that will attach to the factory upper part.


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## pontiacbird (Dec 29, 2006)

Was the surrounding area around the baffle sealed off? This could explain the lack of midbass punch.

It's important to get the seal. I'm sure once you had the baffle and the door completely sealed, midbass punch would improve noticeably, evidenced by the fact that you most likely would have noise issues from your actual door resonating.

The initial lack of door resonances tells me that either you made the door solid as a rock (which would be great), or that there is a poor seal. In addition, decoupling the baffle itself, as well as making it as rigid as possible would increase your midbass.

Also, it looks like 3 screws are holding the baffle (i'm sure they are bolts), but using washers on top of those would greatly increase the leverage, and you could tighten the sh!t out of the baffle, w/o sacrificing the integrity of the baffle itself. You will have to reshape the baffle, and move the positioning of the woofer to make the use of mounting bolts and washers possible, but I think this is integral in getting that baffle sturdy. 

Don't give up too soon.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I took every step/precaution possible for the midbass...I added sheet metal to cover big holes/gaps, and used damping mat on the inner and outer skins. I used Bondo-Glass and thick screws to affix the baffle made of 3/4" mdf to the door. I even used plastic "thimbals" glued on behind the clip holes to make the door as airtight as possible. I also banged on the doors with my fists and knuckles before sealing it up, to check for & fix vibrations coming from inside the doors. The baffle was plenty sturdy, the doors were sturdy, I checked for air leaks with the door card on, with the only leaky areas being the slots where water drains out the bottom and to an extent some leakage from the rubber window-sill which presses up against the window.

Just wasn't happy with the midbass punch...and I like the spaciousness of sound by mounting my mids inside the doors and angling them versus having them protruding out in kickpanels.




pontiacbird said:


> Was the surrounding area around the baffle sealed off? This could explain the lack of midbass punch.
> 
> It's important to get the seal. I'm sure once you had the baffle and the door completely sealed, midbass punch would improve noticeably, evidenced by the fact that you most likely would have noise issues from your actual door resonating.
> 
> ...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Update...
The passenger's side door is about 95% complete, just some minor cosmetics to take care of. The driver's side door is about 20% complete but should go faster than the other door since I won't be using OLD fiberglass resin like I did on the passenger's door panel...ugh.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

jsun_g said:


>


That looks amazing man!

Congrats!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Wow. Very nice work man. Looking forward to some pics of the finished product on both doors.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks guys. CO, I share in your pain with the door project. What a hassle getting the fiberglass/bondo sanded flush with the door plastic, and then trying to get a matching color paint. Had to brush it on (could not get in a spray can...it was color matched in Home Depot) and sand, sand, sand.
Wayyyyy too much time spent on this.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Yeah, its a VERY time consuming project for sure. Yours even moreso than mine it appears. How many hours do you think you have into the pair of doors already ?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

How many hours on the current iteration? 

Well counting the deadening as part of that, I probably have about 50 to 60 hours into them. It'll likely be 70 to 80 before they are done. I don't have whiz-bang fancy tools.
If I hadn't spent time putting those 8's in, I'd have saved about 15-20 hours. Oh well gotta experiment 

Next it's on to the tweeter pods...

I noticed your Xtant amps...nice... Good time to pick up equipment on the cheap in this bad economy.




captainobvious said:


> Yeah, its a VERY time consuming project for sure. Yours even moreso than mine it appears. How many hours do you think you have into the pair of doors already ?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

jsun_g said:


> How many hours on the current iteration?
> 
> Well counting the deadening as part of that, I probably have about 50 to 60 hours into them. It'll likely be 70 to 80 before they are done. I don't have whiz-bang fancy tools.
> If I hadn't spent time putting those 8's in, I'd have saved about 15-20 hours. Oh well gotta experiment
> ...



lol, yeah I figured about that much (time wise). Im pretty close to that myself (by the time I finish up). Worth it to me though to get a larger midbass in the doors. I'll also be working on pods myself too. A-Pillars on axis for mids and tweeters to be exact.

The Xtants look like they are going to fit the bill nicely. I did some initial testing and they provide plenty of juice.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of your build. Consider me subscribed


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Some pics of the driver's side. Doors are 90% done, pending some minor stuff.


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

those doors look awesome. Even if the 8's didn't work out for you the final build product looks great, definitely something to be proud of


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks!

You never know unless you try a bunch of things. Most of what I tried has failed. Failure is necessary and to be expected 




jdc753 said:


> those doors look awesome. Even if the 8's didn't work out for you the final build product looks great, definitely something to be proud of


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## Digital 300 (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey, I have kick panels and 8" in front doors too!


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## blackbonnie (Nov 1, 2007)

amazing work on the doors, i would love to do something like that, but with a newborn and working 3rd shift, and my install bay being a half hour away, it definately would take a while.

one of these days ill get the time and balls to tear into my car like you did. very nice work


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Some new stuff to post. I figured might as well post it here instead of a new thread.

I did some work on rear fill by re-finishing the rear headrest replicas (I did a crappy job on the vinyl so I decided to chuck the vinyl, do more bondo/sanding, and paint them). I will eventually add a padded panel to the front of the headrests but seeing as I don't often have backseat passengers, it isn't a hurry.

Also did some tweeter pod work. Till now, I had my Tang Band neo tweeters (and for some time Vifa neo tweeters) temporarily mounted on the corners of the dash. After seeing a thread on DIYMA about using PVC end caps for tweeter pods and another thread about using sphere shaped pods to reduce diffraction, I decided to take 2 PVC end caps, cut off the "pipe" part, and bond the 2 curved end pieces together like a clamshell. It's just enough clearance to mount the tweeters inside. I had to cut off the tweeter flanges from the Tang Band's, and somewhere along the way one of the tweeters stopped working (reading infinite impedance), so I had to order a new one from Parts-Express. Still, I am happy with how the tweet pods turned out as the tweeters are flush-mounted into the PVC endcaps, and I noticed an improvement in the sound...most the highs seem to come from around the tweeter...above, behind, or outside the A-pillar, instead of me being able to pinpoint them to the tweeter itself.

Pics coming up. Some of the rear headrest pics are old but putting 'em in for completeness/continuity.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Pics.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

awesome job on the doors. any issues with adhesion to the door trim?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks.
Are you asking about the fiberglass/bondo adhering to the plastic panel?
Yeah there were some adhesion issues, mainly with the first door panel I did. Part of it was due (I think) to old fiberglass resin. Another part of it was due to not having scuffed up the plastic enough and drilling enough holes. The first door panel is holding up alright, just need to do some minor stuff. The 2nd panel is just fine, no problems.

One thing I have found that helps A LOT is on each edge of the door panel, i.e. where it bends 90 degrees and then again 90 degrees to become a flat part which butts up to the steel door skin - drill a hole thru the bondo/fiberglass you laid on there and thru the plastic door panel where the first 90 degree bend is...and put a screw & nut thru it...then bondo over the exposed screw head. That way, there is strength against the bottom half "folding". See the picture below for the 2 points I am referring to add a screw/nut:












stinky06 said:


> awesome job on the doors. any issues with adhesion to the door trim?


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

I love those door panels.......cant wait to see more


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## kota_sounds (Apr 21, 2008)

headrest for rear fill...wow would have never thought about that looks great


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## fatboyracing (Oct 8, 2008)

I like the end product of the door but I would of loved to see 8s stay


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks. I would have liked to keep the 8s in, but it just didn't work out sound-wise. I will probably do some experimenting with an aperiodic midbass setup in the kickpanels, but for now, the sealed kickpod enclosures are working out pretty well, except for a big 125Hz peak I had to EQ out.



fatboyracing said:


> I like the end product of the door but I would of loved to see 8s stay


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Just a quick note that I am taking a bit of a break from working on the system after competing at USACi finals for the first time this month. I have some things I'd like to do with the system when I get back around to it:

1) Mold a carbon fiber and MDF box into the spare tire well for the 2 10s. The top of the box will be slightly higher than the rest of the trunk floor so I can mount the 10s on the back of the box (i.e. inside the spare tire well, facing the rear bumper, maybe 3 or 4 inches from the back of the trunk). I will make 2 interchangeable ports that can be bolted onto the box (one tuned for SPL, one tuned for SQ), with the port firing at the back bumper just like the subs.

2) The rest of the trunk floor will also be raised to the same height as the sub box, so that the trunk floor is flat and stealth. Amps/processors will be mounted inside the raised floor areas.

3) Play around with the doors and door panels a bit to create new pods to counter-sink the mids inside the door as far as possible, and angle them back and up more (i.e. less off-axis).

4) Notch out the bottom part of the A-pillar covers and stealth mount the tweeters inside, cover with factory fabric.

5) Experiment with an IB/aperiodic setup on the kickpanel midbasses to eliminate the 125Hz peak.

6) Clean up wiring with techflex and take pics

In the meantime, I am dedicating more of my time to find another software engineering job (I was let go from my previous employer). If you know of any contacts in IT or telecom who may know of opportunities in the DFW, Austin, Phoenix, or Roanoke VA metros, please ping me on IM. I am as dedicated and creative on software development and testing as on stereo systems


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Sorry about you losing your job, good luck. I've enjoyed reading this thread... I've been debating on going with some Morel 8-10" midbass in my doors. Looks like you got your work cut out for you.

Oh yeah, congrats on your 2nd place finish!


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## Jwool15 (Dec 3, 2008)

Great build man the door panels turned out great. I see you're in DFW too, I live out in Trophy Club. I'm in the process of re-doing everything in my 05 f150. I really want to put 8's in doors and make a fiberglass enclosure on the A-pillars for the mids and tweats. Shoot me a PM i'd love to hear your system sometime/


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

So do you think those Morels could work with wide range driver? Say if I left 8" in the kicks vented into the frame and mounted full range on the dash level?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yup, that they might be able to do. They are smooth into the midrange, though a bit subdued. I don't recall any really objectionable response peaks when I ran them full-range to break them in. It might not hurt to put both the Morel and the widebander on a large baffle board and do a test run outside your car to see how they sound together with the intended amp power and xover points.

IMHO having the midbass as far away from you (i.e. in kickpods or firewall) is the way to go if you can wing it. Smaller PLD.



Mless5 said:


> So do you think those Morels could work with wide range driver? Say if I left 8" in the kicks vented into the frame and mounted full range on the dash level?


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

jsun_g said:


> IMHO having the midbass as far away from you (i.e. in kickpods or firewall) is the way to go if you can wing it. Smaller PLD.



Thanks pal!

Yes, that's what I am trying to do here. 

Will continue tomorrow as today's rain turned into snow


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## Leno (Jan 4, 2009)

very nice door install - nice details --


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

:thumbsup:

Bummer those 8's didn't work out. I'm suffering the same dilema with cdt es 6.5's. The magnet and push pins will not fit through the existing metal door panel. I am hesitant to cut it out, but there is no choice. My quart baskets did not fit well either. Honda is not kind to my installs. You did really nice work with putting the panels back together with the glassing + bondo. kudos!


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Did u think about kickpods for the 6.5's? I dunno about the CDT ES series, but I have used the CDT Classic 6.5" and they like to be used in larger enclosures, so that may make kickpods a bit difficult if the ES are the same way. I actually have the CDT classic 6.5 as a mid/woofer in a 2-way system in home...they are in about 0.75 cuft sealed each with an old school MB Quart QM19HX tweeter crossed passively and I like how the setup sounds.

If you end up using them in the doors, you pretty much will have to cut metal, not only to fit the driver, but to allow sufficient airflow out from the basket into the door cavity, esp. since it is a midbass.




jaysalti said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Bummer those 8's didn't work out. I'm suffering the same dilema with cdt es 6.5's. The magnet and push pins will not fit through the existing metal door panel. I am hesitant to cut it out, but there is no choice. My quart baskets did not fit well either. Honda is not kind to my installs. You did really nice work with putting the panels back together with the glassing + bondo. kudos!


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## rsf98 (Oct 19, 2009)

these doors are looking awesome!


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

jsun_g said:


> Did u think about kickpods for the 6.5's? I dunno about the CDT ES series, but I have used the CDT Classic 6.5" and they like to be used in larger enclosures, so that may make kickpods a bit difficult if the ES are the same way. I actually have the CDT classic 6.5 as a mid/woofer in a 2-way system in home...they are in about 0.75 cuft sealed each with an old school MB Quart QM19HX tweeter crossed passively and I like how the setup sounds.
> 
> If you end up using them in the doors, you pretty much will have to cut metal, not only to fit the driver, but to allow sufficient airflow out from the basket into the door cavity, esp. since it is a midbass.


The paperwork suggests down to .3 cuft is allowable, but optimal bass response from door mount and approx 1.0 cuft so I'm sol. I think I'm going to go for a full custom door panel, as mine are pretty cracked up anyhow. Been doing plenty of researching. Did you drill out holes along the cut on the metal first? I was measuring it out, and it appears that I will only be able to cut to the inner diameter of the basket before the welding for the screws that hold the lower front of the door panel are removed. it's going to be a project for sure. 

Again, really nice job on the custom work! Cool idea for the rear fill.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks for the complements.

I didn't drill any holes, just took a jigsaw to the door and expanded the stock speaker opening a bit...
I ended up cutting the metal enough to where it was as wide as the open area on the back of the Morel 8" midbass frame, that sounds about what you're anticipating to cut so it should be enough. Just be sure to reinforce the area where you cut the door's sheetmetal with steel, aluminum, fiberglass, HDPE, whatever you can to make it strong/rigid and water resistant.



jaysalti said:


> The paperwork suggests down to .3 cuft is allowable, but optimal bass response from door mount and approx 1.0 cuft so I'm sol. I think I'm going to go for a full custom door panel, as mine are pretty cracked up anyhow. Been doing plenty of researching. Did you drill out holes along the cut on the metal first? I was measuring it out, and it appears that I will only be able to cut to the inner diameter of the basket before the welding for the screws that hold the lower front of the door panel are removed. it's going to be a project for sure.
> 
> Again, really nice job on the custom work! Cool idea for the rear fill.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks for the tips. Think I'll be doing a custom door panel... So I may have to start a build log. Still need to cut up the door though b\c the speaker opening is so small. Got good ideas from this thead though so thank you. Hope to see the rest of your build soon. Any idea when you will wrap those headrests?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

On the headrests, I first want to make the back part more stealthy...it draws too much attention from outside the car. After that, I know a guy who owns a classic car restoration shop...he might be able to do a stitched vinyl cover with some padding underneath on the front part.



jaysalti said:


> Thanks for the tips. Think I'll be doing a custom door panel... So I may have to start a build log. Still need to cut up the door though b\c the speaker opening is so small. Got good ideas from this thead though so thank you. Hope to see the rest of your build soon. Any idea when you will wrap those headrests?


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

8's in your front doors..... Cant get any better than that. Nice work and I love the overall design of the panels.


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## SQ27801 (Mar 30, 2009)

I used the Morels in both of my SQ cars that I competed with. I always received top scores, because the 8's will play down to 60Hz cleanly. I will be purchasing another set for my next install.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

jsun_g said:


> On the headrests, I first want to make the back part more stealthy...it draws too much attention from outside the car. After that, I know a guy who owns a classic car restoration shop...he might be able to do a stitched vinyl cover with some padding underneath on the front part.


color match the grill cloth to the interior?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Either I'll use grille cloth or fine perforated steel or aluminum...match it to the vinyl on the headrest, which will be matched to the leather on the seats. I thought about mounting the rear fill drivers on the outside panel of the headrests (i.e. facing the rear quarterpanels). It would make the rear fill completely stealth but I'll have to do some experimentation on the sound before making a commitment to that amount of work.


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