# No love for Soundstream / Adcom amps



## ssclassa60

Hello to all! I'm getting back into the scene after picking up an older bmw M5 that is begging for a high end system. 

I'm curious as to why there is little love for old school Soundstream amps (Class A's in particular)? Other than having to throw some cooling fans on them when driving low impedences, I have yet to listen to a better SQ amp (factoring in cost). I ran my 6.0 at 1ohm bridged without any problems for like 2 years and still have it and the board looks great. The Class A 50/100 line sounded even better but were less flexible (impedences).

Also, after finally picking up some Adcom GFA car amps from wheelieking (I already had a full car when these came out), I have to say that these also sound fantastic! Why no love these either? And don't give me that xlr bs, grab your f'ing soldering iron haha!


----------



## OS Audio

I'm an Adcom fan!! Currently I own only one Adcom car amp but would like to put together a system in my jeep using Adcom amps. Maybe someday I'll pony up the cash and do it. 

I'm running a GFA-7805 in my current home setup now.


----------



## Old Skewl

I know what you mean! I am a Soundstream fan myself. Seems like the interest in the market has dropped off some. Even prices have dropped on most of the OS Soundstream amps. Even the Class A's. I guess it is supply and demand?


----------



## ssclassa60

Nice! Old Skewl - nice collection you got there! 

I started out on the original Ref Class A line. 3.0's and 6.0's and Picasso. Adcom's were out of my budget and my car was full when they hit the market. Anyone consider the orginal Class A50/100 better than the Ref line? How about the series II's? Just curious as the Ref line's claim to fame was 1/4ohm stability but man did they run hot!!

Good to see I'm not alone. On second thought, maybe I should delete this thread and keep it our little secret haha....


----------



## Old Skewl

Unfortunately that is only about half of my collection! Ha ha! I ran PPI A/AM back in the day. Always admired the Soundstream MC, Reference, and Class A.


----------



## rockytophigh

I've owned 3 MC500s....a MC300....4 D200iis....6 D100iis....and 2 D60iis oh, and a Davinci...oh and a Continuum. My favorite amps of all time. I now run Zuki but wouldn't hesitate to use Soundstream again.


----------



## CDT FAN

I thought about trying those class A out, but I was wondering if that would be enough power for when I want to crank it up.


----------



## ssclassa60

Well, the class a 6.0 (50x2 into 4ohms) has a 1600watt darlington transistor array. Amazing headroom for instantaneous power demands and underrated due to real world 13.8volts+ on an unregulated power supply. I'd say my 6.0 played as loud on my front 4ohm stage as my first amp - a PPI A600. So Class A's behave imo at triple their rating. Again i had all art series and tried a class a and it blew me away in comparison. When they clip, they clip in an organic way similar to a tube amp. Just pure, musical power delivery


----------



## SilkySlim

I have always had respect for both the soundstream's and the adcom's good power smooth sound very comfortable to listen to. 
The Adcom's are hard to find but they were reliable and sounded really good. Although it has been years since i heard one i remember doing a couple of major custom installs with them that customers owned and I was really impressed. One was in an old Ferrari 308GT pain in the butt install but turned out nice and sounded great with the old ads seperates. Likewise I was competing with art series amps in my own car at the time. 
The Soundstream ref sounded very good. I managed a dealer when the refs, rubis were current. They were just releasing the Davinci, Tarantula, etc. The only thing I can say is they had a bad run and had some manufacturing problems. If you got one that worked it was great and seemed to hold up. That being said i would have 2-3 in a row bad/defective right off the shelf.  Left a bad taste for me, but man you are right they did sound good. I moved back south and never dealt with them again. So they could have just had a bad run or couple of years. So I am nervous to try them again. :bomb:


----------



## SilkySlim

Also what year is your M5? I have a 530 with the M sport package getting ready to start my build next month or two but i am looking for an M5 as well in the next year. E39


----------



## ssclassa60

It's an 02 silver over black on black with walnut.
In the early 2000's I had a 540i6 sport (baby M5) and regretted every selling it. I redeemed myself in November. Finally a car I won't need to add 100lbs of sound mat cause it's already there! Looking forward to tearing that ***** apart!

Yeah, I guess I missed all of the quality issues. That will certainly ruin a brand both in the moment and 20 years later...

I have to say, SS Ref Class A's are built to similar specs as the LP HV line now that I've looked at LP (heard of them back in the day but no access to them at all). So I guess is was Soundstream's "selling out" and ruining the brand with quality issues and then dumbed down equipment is why there are so few of "us". The M5 lends itself to the Adcom equipment - refined, a little quirky, need to fix your own otherwise $$$. 
That being said, I may pick up an LPIQ to try out.


----------



## SilkySlim

That is awesome the new Genisis amp are very very similar in design and sound. Congrats on the M5 nice find awesome car! We'll have to connect on the builds.


----------



## MikeT1982

I too used to own a Soundstream Reference Class A 3.0! From 1997-1999, it was a hand me down from a buddy who bought it off someone else! It was so beat up that I had to put cut off drinking straws into the screw terminal blocks to provide new sleeves. We ran it somewhere between 1/2 ohm and 1 ohm mono and had a large 6" cooling fan cable tied to its top with black cable ties LoL. Had to run it in mixed mono because the mono selection wouldn't work. It powered 6 crossfire entry level 10's sealed, all 4 ohms and parallelled! On hot days it would go into thermal rollback which was neat as you would suddenly hear a great drop in volume, next another drop after a bit if you didn't let up, then off lol. Also like you said, when it heavily clipped, especially on subs you KNEW. It would sound like DC voltage the subs sounded like a voice coil former hammering the pole piece during bottoming out lol. It was pretty graceful up into the beginnings of clipping than bam that horrid noise. It's a shame we relegated to sub duty and only occasionally would run it on the highs! Don't dare touch it after heavy sub duty, you'd have a better chance touching a hot iron lol! All the reference amps were amazing, the inside guts are still some of my favorite builds to this day, if not my favorite!


----------



## SilkySlim

There is a brand new in box big boy adcom 4ch on eBay. Pretty decent seller. I can't afford it now.


----------



## ssclassa60

Wow Mike you really beat the crap out of that 25x2 amp haha! I think your experience is similar to most that got into the brand at that time. Their claim to fame was being able to run 4 4ohm subs in parallel (and bridged to mono) effectively making 6X its 4ohm stereo power output. Again I know the HV Linear Powers do this as well but don't know of any others .that keep doubling output up to 1ohm bridged. Again the Class A's were marketed as stable to 1/4 ohm stereo - thats 32 4ohm speakers! 

My first build ever was right before the solobarics hit the market and there was this isobaric prefab box with stone effect paint (had a name that was a play on words to rock or something). I was working part time building boxes and doing installs for a local shop after school and decided to do 4 Kappa 10's isobaric in a shared 1.0 cuft sealed. This was before anyone made subs for super small sealed enclosures (Solobaric was really the first) and isobaric allowed for half of the enclosure size and half the distortion because they worked together out of phase.

It was a time when everyone was pushing what could be done with hardware and installation techniques.

That adcom has been up on ebay for a while now. Says it ships from Thailand? > sketchy? I was lucky to grab a couple from a trusted member of diyma - but I did find him through his ebay listing...

I have a Ref Class A Picasso, a Class A50II, and a A100II coming soon!...

Anyone need a Reference 300? I'll be putting it up soon. Too many amps!


----------



## prince427c

Anyone have instructions on how to make the XLR to RCA cables for bridging? I have an ADCOM on the way


----------



## prince427c

SilkySlim said:


> There is a brand new in box big boy adcom 4ch on eBay. Pretty decent seller. I can't afford it now.


Pretty sure I bought this one. I really shouldn't be eBaying with a bottle of wine. :surprised:

If it was the one from Birmingham, NY. There's another NIB Adcom up there, but it's smaller.


----------



## ssclassa60

prince, this link has everything. I suggest you open each image full size, save, and print for your records. Never know when these threads might go offline.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...96-adcom-balanced-lines;-xlr.html#post1282728

Just need to buy 5 conductor cable and the 5 pin xlr ends. If you don't know how to solder, here's your big chance to learn! Be careful as the 5 series bridge differently than the 4 series amps. If you use a GFY1 instead of a 55 on a 5 series amp, apparently it will run but the cable itself will catch fire and toast the amp. I'm not going to test this anecodote...


----------



## prince427c

Excellent. Thanks for the link, man. I actually found that, but I stopped after reading it was on Adcom's site(which it isn't anymore). I never ventured further down to find the actual help hehe. It is certainly in my best interest not to start my car or brand new ADCOM on fire O_O. 

Now, am I correct in thinking these adapters also allow the amps to use unbalanced inputs, or will I have to look into a balance line processor anyhow? One diagram in the manual shows it going from XLR -> RCA -> HU, but it doesn't mention anything about it being a balanced signal.


----------



## MikeT1982

Yeah man I feel bad about that as I am super OCD with most gear and never like to den warm up the amps lol, it was so beat up and missing features (switches not working etc) when i got it that my friend and I decided to use it as a "beater amp" as horrible as that is of more or less ratrod it and I gained so much respect for their build quality. It wasn't for being cruel to the high end amp, but rather to have a rolling test bench for experimenting with it. No matter how low the ohms it would play. The thermal rollback was a smooth cutback and would hit it once a day probably, and it performed flawlessly, and would return back to full within about 5 minutes if I had the fan on and turned volume back a bit. I think we were metering around 136 on an audio control and i had a Crossfire crossover with a remote that allowed me to throttle the amp from the seat. Very much an experimental setup as I was really into the science of it all! That's some awesome setups you had man, love the explanation!  oh I just remembered what actually did kill the reference amp...it had a lot of paint missing and I had accidentally left the braker upfront closed and the 4 gauge power cable brushed some of its chassis while moving it and ground still connected. I was pretty upset that day to say the least, it had been the "fame" of the highschool parking lot and in and out of a few guys cars. I think I paid my friend $30 and a set of tweeters for it!


----------



## ssclassa60

prince, you don't have to use the adcom line driver. You just need to convert to the 5pin xlr so that you connect to the amp (4 channel amps only). I don't have any two channel Adcoms but I think you can just use the + of the balanced inputs and use shorting plugs on the -


----------



## prince427c

Well, I can't wait to try the amp out when I get these cables done. I appreciate the help. I picked up a killer soldering pen I've been dying to use.


----------



## Viggen

Correct line drivers aren't a necessity but I always thought they sounded a lot better with the line drivers, that is unless the deck has 8v pre outs. 

Which reminds me... Someone wanted me to send them pics of the line drivers I have that I do not need any more. 

After almost 20 years of using adcom I went with a newer amp and I have to say it.... The new amp sounds quite a bit better then the old adcom a, however the adcom amps I had were never tweaked like wheelieking and others do


----------



## prince427c

Viggen said:


> Correct line drivers aren't a necessity but I always thought they sounded a lot better with the line drivers, that is unless the deck has 8v pre outs.
> 
> Which reminds me... Someone wanted me to send them pics of the line drivers I have that I do not need any more.
> 
> After almost 20 years of using adcom I went with a newer amp and I have to say it.... The new amp sounds quite a bit better then the old adcom a, however the adcom amps I had were never tweaked like wheelieking and others do


Which ADCOMs did you have? I figure I'm going to re-install my Audiocontrol 3XS for line driver duty. It's better than the 2v Denon head. I figure I will run the ADCOM along side my Audio Art 100HC on sub duty for a bit. Then, I'll decide between this setup, my Linear Power setup, or my whole Audio Art setup. I've been building my retinue of old school amps for a bit, and the ADCOM was a fluke buy. I have ADCOM amps in my bedroom stereo, which I replaced NAD 214 amps with. I like the ADCOMS better, but that's probably because every NAD 214 I own needs new output relays(which I'm trying to source). Good quality though.


----------



## ssclassa60

Viggen - that was me. Still waiting for those pictures of what you have! Still in need, thanks!


----------



## ssclassa60

My brother has been a home Adcom guy for years and remember him drooling back in the day when their car line was released. Funny he had and NAD integrated amp right before he went all Adcom. NAD is some nice stuff - great tuner too.


----------



## prince427c

ssclassa60 said:


> My brother has been a home Adcom guy for years and remember him drooling back in the day when their car line was released. Funny he had and NAD integrated amp right before he went all Adcom. NAD is some nice stuff - great tuner too.


LOL. I think only 1...maybe 2 of the NAD 214s I have are still capable of proper bridging. In stereo, they are great. They just can't handle the bridged output, which is normal for their age. Eventually, I want to source enough speaker relays for the 4...maybe 5...NAD 214s I have hehe.


----------



## rgiorgio

I still have a pair of GFA-1 home amps. God i love these things. Havent used them in a long time. Anybody want them. Still got the Adcom tuner and preamp for the matching set. 200x2 on each amp.


----------



## Viggen

prince427c said:


> Which ADCOMs did you have? I figure I'm going to re-install my Audiocontrol 3XS for line driver duty. It's better than the 2v Denon head. I figure I will run the ADCOM along side my Audio Art 100HC on sub duty for a bit. Then, I'll decide between this setup, my Linear Power setup, or my whole Audio Art setup. I've been building my retinue of old school amps for a bit, and the ADCOM was a fluke buy. I have ADCOM amps in my bedroom stereo, which I replaced NAD 214 amps with. I like the ADCOMS better, but that's probably because every NAD 214 I own needs new output relays(which I'm trying to source). Good quality though.


I had a gfa 5475 running herz Mille componentsmon my last adcom build. Also had two gfa5275's, 5450, 4404, 4304 and I forget what else. I think their car stuff is superior to home actually. A few years back I snagged a gfa5500 for my home stereo and it lacks the midbass and low end vs the parasounds amps I have. It think the car adcom a rock in the midbass area!





ssclassa60 said:


> Viggen - that was me. Still waiting for those pictures of what you have! Still in need, thanks!


I will send them tomorrow.... I promise..... Still have your email and i forgot to send the pics prior to living on my skiing trip. Sorry....


----------



## ssclassa60

Viggen - thanks for the email, I'm still trying to figure out the config I'll be running in my M5 due to possbly having to patch into speaker level inputs with an MS-8 or something like that. I'll be in touch soon.

And for the home Adcom amps - the high current line (GFA-XXX) are the ones that sound almost identical to their car stuff. My understanding is the that 4digit models numbers were the mosfet line (i.e. regulated power supply). Just don't have the same musicality as the HC stuff imo.

I've been benching my car amps on some older B&W602's and the Adcoms are so damn smooth and effortless. Can listen for a long time with very little fatigue


----------



## ssclassa60

rgiorgio - pm me on your GFA-1's et al... I'm curious. Those things weigh a ton though if I remember correctly. Monoblock's right?


----------



## rgiorgio

pm'ed


----------



## The real Subzero

what is the feelings on Soundstream REF 644 and REF 500s?


----------



## Old Skewl

ssclassa60 said:


> Viggen - thanks for the email, I'm still trying to figure out the config I'll be running in my M5 due to possbly having to patch into speaker level inputs with an MS-8 or something like that. I'll be in touch soon.
> 
> And for the home Adcom amps - the high current line (GFA-XXX) are the ones that sound almost identical to their car stuff. My understanding is the that 4digit models numbers were the mosfet line (i.e. regulated power supply). Just don't have the same musicality as the HC stuff imo.
> 
> I've been benching my car amps on some older B&W602's and the Adcoms are so damn smooth and effortless. Can listen for a long time with very little fatigue


Thats funny! I bench my amps with a set of B&W 602' S2s. Those Class A's sound sweet through them!! Congrats on the Picasso!


----------



## minbari

now sure how old the SA120 is, but I just picked this up on feebay. seems to be in perfect working order so far.


----------



## bigbubba

I love my Soundstream Ref 500's. Had them since new. And I also got a Ref 300 recently and they are fixing to go into my daily driver.


----------



## Old Skewl

That is one super clean Reference 500!! Box and all!


----------



## Old Skewl

The real Subzero said:


> what is the feelings on Soundstream REF 644 and REF 500s?


Overall they were still good amps. Only problems with these amps were that they had automatic switches for High Power/High Current. Many didn't w ork properly and the amps went up in smoke. Nicknamed "Smokestream"

The original Reference amps had manual switches for theHigh Power/ High Current.


----------



## bigbubba

Old Skewl said:


> That is one super clean Reference 500!! Box and all!


2 of them.  I had three 500's but for some stupid reason I sold one. Been regretting that ever since. I did pick up a really clean Ref 300 though.


----------



## ssclassa60

Nice clean amps!! And packaging!

Does the Picasso not have the autoswitching since its only 2ohm rated? I've never heard of them up in a puff puff...

Things started to go downwards mid putting the chrome SS logo on top of the heatsink. Except fot the Picasso of course...
Orig 200/300/500 are all solid amps especially for subs imo. The 405 and 705(non s) are in that same league. People say original Rubis are good but I have no personal experience. 

Just picked up an old (80's) SF-90 - 15x2 + 30x2, 2 ohm stable. NIB! Staggered Front i believe. Pics to come. Has pigtail speaker leads 

OldSkewl - thats really wierd on the 602's haha


----------



## azvrt

The Ref and Rubi Picasso did not have auto switches, nor manual switches as they indeed were rated for 2 ohm stereo minimum impedance so no High Current Mode.


----------



## kkritsilas

Hi,

Does anybody know if the Soundstream SMA 4.680 (part of the Michaelangelo line) is US made?

Kostas


----------



## azvrt

From 2000 on everything was made overseas.was made overseas.


----------



## kkritsilas

Thanks for that, but I don't know when it was made, as I am not that familiar with Soundtsream amplifiers. The Class A, Rubicon, and Reference (all blue ones) I know were made in the US. This one, because of my unfamiliarity, I don't know.

Kostas


----------



## ssclassa60

azvrt - seen you around when doing searches on SS amps. You clearly know your ****.
Thanks for chiming in and confirming my thoughts on autoswitching.


----------



## azvrt

I don't know much but I do know old Soundstreams, yes.
I am working on a very cool and crazy SS project as a matter of fact.
Hope to have it ready in about a month.


----------



## ssclassa60

Do tell azvrt! Would love to hear what you're up to?


----------



## azvrt

And I would love to tell. But I won't, it'll be cooler when I have pics to go along with the text. Patience.


----------



## Old Skewl

Oh the suspense!!


----------



## ssclassa60

... is a virtue indeed!

Please be sure to drop a line in this thread when you're ready


----------



## ssclassa60

Kostas - here's a manual I dug up:
Soundstream Technologies OWNERS MANUAL AND INSTALLATION GUIDE Power Amplifiers SA.120, SA.244, SA.245 | ManualsOnline.com

I do remember these during the end of my original mobile audio career (98-99ish?). These are comparable to the USA line or Granite line that came before. These are entry level SS amps and while reliable (I installed a few), really nothing special in terms of sonic performance.


----------



## azvrt

Will do.
I'll try and hurry things, but the weather is kind of sucky over here at the moment.
My goal is to finalize it by the end of the month...


----------



## ssclassa60

^^^ Awesome, looking forward to it!

So my verdict is in after a week or 2 of benching the following on my b&w602's full range. Please bear in mind the 8ohm load:
SS Class A 6.0 
SS Class A 50II / 100 II 
SS Reference 300
Adcom 4304/5450 
Planet Audio P7150 
SS Class A Picasso (bridged to 50watts x2 in 8ohm)

I have all my amps wired with quick connects so I can change one in about 30-60sec. My ears are good and I've been listening to reference material.

Conclusion is that the Class A's are noticably better in sound quality (lively, articulate, and nuanced) and seem to have more power (dynamically) than the other similarly powered amps. They almost sound best when pushed to their limit. Very clean clipping compared to the others. The Adcom's sound great too... until you A-B them with a Class A. When comparing the Adcom's to the Ref 300, it was hard to tell a difference sonically.

Oh and the Picasso is quite possibly the best sounding amp I've ever heard, home or car. What a great piece. Even with it's huge heatsink and 8ohm load, it was too hot to keep a hand on after a 2 hour listening session at about 8/10's. I kind of regret buying the Adcom's to be honest but let me bridge them up using the proper balanced xlr's before I pass final judgement. 

Viva la Class A!!

And here's the SF-90 and others


----------



## azvrt

None of these amps are really Class A, they are a high bias A/B design but I too find them to sound very pleasing. Keep in mind the Adcoms are more Class A than any of the others (besides maybe 6.0 and A100II) as their idling current is very high, they have a high bias.
The Picasso actually has the lowest bias of all, or well it should have. When set correctly (25mV DC per channel) this amplifier should not get hot, unless you are listening really loud ? If you want I can help you check and set the bias of your 6.0, Picasso, and 4304, it tends to drift after this many years. I should have some instructional pics somewhere. The A50II / A100II do not have adjustable potentiometers.


----------



## azvrt

And by the way mounting small silent fans to these amplifier's heatsinks really keeps them much, much cooler. You can hook the negative wire of the fan to the ground terminal of the amp, and the positive to the remote terminal. However if you do this you must use a relay or the fan's current draw might be excessive for your head unit's remote output and damage it.

Installing Multiple Amplifiers


----------



## ssclassa60

Great advise, my installs with SS amps always had a couple 100CFM computer fans involved. Push - pull to keep fresh cool air circulating through my rack.

And yes, I am very interested in chatting with you about setting bias. Adcom and SS. My Adcom's are from wheelieking who said he sorted that all out with my particular amps. But I've noticed my older 6.0's get a little too hot for comfort just sitting idle for like an hour. I can keep my hand on the sink but just barely. Again this is just idling with no signal. I'm an engineer so speak freely and I'm all too familiar with my trusty DMM. I'm a tinkerer so this is right up my alley.

I'll send you a PM now. Or if you'd prefer just dropping it in this thread, that'll work too. Thanks!


----------



## azvrt

I think I'll put a little tutorial in this thread. Remind me in a couple of days if I have forgotten.

These 6.0 will get very hot idling. Wade Stewart once explained that if there is no music signal most of the idling energy turns into pure heat.
We can probably set the bias of your 6.0 a little lower, if it has potentiometers like the Picasso. Some 3.0 / 6.0 have, some don't. Most do, however.

PM me your email address and I will forward you the service manuals for the Adcoms, there it is explained how to set the bias. I also like to set the DC offset at the same time, on the Adcoms this can be done as well. We used to replace the single-turn DC offset pots on the Adcoms by multi (such as 20 or 25) turn pots so that adjustment was easier and more precise. It isn't necessary though. Setting the bias very precise on the Picasso won't be easy due to the single turn-pots, but it doesn't really matter if there are small differences.


----------



## CDT FAN

ssclassa60 said:


> But I've noticed my older 6.0's get a little too hot for comfort just sitting idle for like an hour. I can keep my hand on the sink but just barely. Again this is just idling with no signal.



So, what you are saying is that, with the 6.0, you don't have a problem with headlights dimming to the music because they are constantly dim when it's on.

Is the 6.0 a true class A amp? If not, why does it pull so much current when idling?


----------



## ssclassa60

azvrt can chime in but a true 100W of Class A idles at 100W... not very efficient. As az said, Class A circuitry wastes this "unburnt fuel" so to speak, and sheds it as heat. I actually never knew this was exaggerated without a signal to amplify. I've always tested high current amps at idle (for an hour or two) to see if they ran away thermally and shut down. Now I know why this test is reasonable in the absence of signal source.


----------



## CDT FAN

I don't think I have ever had an amp that I could barely touch, even after an hour of blasting it. I figured the 6.0 mus tbe pulling an awful lot to get it that hot at idle. I understand how amplifiers in general work. I need to read up on how class A/B work. Specifically the SS amps, where they use class A and then switch over to B at a certain level.


----------



## minbari

ssclassa60 said:


> azvrt can chime in but a true 100W of Class A idles at 100W... not very efficient. As az said, Class A circuitry wastes this "unburnt fuel" so to speak, and sheds it as heat. I actually never knew this was exaggerated without a signal to amplify. I've always tested high current amps at idle (for an hour or two) to see if they ran away thermally and shut down. Now I know why this test is reasonable in the absence of signal source.


yup, if it is a true class A, then the way they are biased means the transistors are always on. they modulate the signal on the BJTs for audio signal, but they are always on. this is the reason most class A have transformer coupled output, to filter out the DC biasing before it goes to the speakers (also why they are so expensive. good audio transformers are not cheap)

The result is an amplifier that sucks down current like a cowboy sucks down beer! this is also why they get hot, signal or not, they produce nearly full power all the time.


----------



## minbari

CDT FAN said:


> I don't think I have ever had an amp that I could barely touch, even after an hour of blasting it. I figured the 6.0 mus tbe pulling an awful lot to get it that hot at idle. I understand how amplifiers in general work. I need to read up on how class A/B work. Specifically the SS amps, where they use class A and then switch over to B at a certain level.


you can read this stuff on the internet of course.

but in a nutshell, class A/B has two devices for each channel. one positive and one negative. with no audio signal, there is no current flowing in the devices (mosfets or BJTs) when a signal is present they start to conduct. one device for the positive side of the wave and one for negative. more signal you give, the more it conducts. (they are slightly on all the time in reality)

there is more to it, of course. like Zero-cross distortion and how they solve it. but that is the basics.


----------



## azvrt

CDT FAN said:


> I don't think I have ever had an amp that I could barely touch, even after an hour of blasting it. I figured the 6.0 mus tbe pulling an awful lot to get it that hot at idle. I understand how amplifiers in general work. I need to read up on how class A/B work. Specifically the SS amps, where they use class A and then switch over to B at a certain level.


Let me start with I'm absolutely not a technician or expert or whatever, but I do know a couple of things about old SS amps.

The idling current of a Class A 6.0 is approximately 3 ampere, non-stop.
This means that the amplifier will generate heat all the time.
Your average amplifier has an idling current of say 1 ampere. During loud passages (bass impacts for instance) of music the current draw will peak for a short period of time, then returns back to its idling current until the next bass impact. Higher frequencies than bass don't draw very much current.

Anyway, between current draw peaks, if an amplifier has a low idling current, it can cool down. A SS 6.0 will never stop generating heat as its idling current is very high for an A/B amplifier. The same can be said about 10.0 and 3.0, and also the older A50II and A100II from the D-series, and also the A40 and A50 from the first generation D-series. These amplifiers all have pretty high idling current (A50II 1.5A which is quite a lot for such a small heatsink, A100II 2.5A, 10.0 over 3A, 3.0 approx 2A).

For the Reference Picasso they lowered the idling current to approx 1.4A which isn't very much. If a Ref Picasso gets hot, bias is probably a little higher than it should be. In my experience, Ref Picasso's don't get that warm, then again my listening levels are pretty low and I also set the bias the way I was instructed to by a former SS employee.

The Rubicon 5.2 and 10.2 also have lower bias and 1.5A and 2.0A idling current. Of course, if used at low impedances for subs, these will get very hot as well, but if you use them on 4 ohhm speakers in stereo, not so much.

A Rubicon Renoir will only draw 0.9A current at idle. Rubi Picasso is the only one I haven't owned but my guess is approx. the same as Ref Picasso.
Bias for Ref Picasso should be set to 25mV per channel, 10.0 was set between 80 and 120mv per channel IIRC. You can imagine this generates a lot of heat and why they ever decided to have an amp, which was sold to drive multiple subs at ridiculously low impedance, idle that high. Basically this amplifier will get hot just idling or playing music softly in 4 ohms stereo through speakers, never exceeding its idling current, but if you use it at 1 ohms mono on half a dozen of subs and you have bass impacts resulting in current draw peaks on top of the high idling current (thus zero chance to cool down between bass impacts) that's asking for trouble.

Anyway I'll soon post some pics and some instructions on how to check and set the bias on the different models. Again I am no expert but I was taught by someone who is and I've set it on many an amp so we should be okay.


----------



## CDT FAN

That is interesting. 3 amps contiuous doesn't sound like enough to generate a whole lot of heat with a large heatsink on it, considering many amps have 60 amp fuses on them. I guess those particular heatsinks aren't very efficient.

I used to have a much better grasp on electronics circuit design, but it has been almost 20 years since I have given it much thought. I am just beginning to get back into it.

I understand that a class A amp can consist of just one transistor. The transistor is always flowing full current so that it can amplify the whole waveform. Since it is always running full current, it generates a lot of heat.
I understand that a class B amp only amplifies half of the sine wave and the transistor "shuts off", or quits flowing current during the opposite half of the signal. If there is no signal, the transistor is off. An amp can have a push-pull circuit where transistors work in pairs. One handles the top half and of the signal and the other handles the bottom. As the signal transistions across the pair, the transistors make noise as they are cutting on and off. A class A/B sets the bias so that the transistors overlap a little and never shut off, so that they eliminate the crossover distortion.

The thing I am curious about and I haven't found how it works is how an amp can run in class A mode and switch into class B. Someone was saying that the SS amps do that.

On another note, I have a older Kenwood 1021. The brochure for it says that it will use a lower rail voltage when it can and then it switches to a higher rail voltage when it needs it. I guess that would be like a class G.


----------



## ssclassa60

azvrt - awesome information, please keep it coming at your leisure...
Been listening to an Adcom 5450 on my bench tonight (I do have an adjustable power supply btw) and realized my 6.0 was also powered on but not driving anything and while it wasn't smoking hot, it was very warm indeed. Please keep in mind it takes about an hour of idling for it reach this temp. 

I'm not an expert either but can speak and understand the engineering language well enough to hold my own and get me into trouble from time to time...

CDT is on point - 3amps at a worst case 14volts is still only 52 watts of energy. I would think a heat sink the size of the 6.0 could dissipate that without issue. Are the transistors seeing something different? Is the 3amp reading just a measureable indication of something more in depth circuit/energy wise?
Also as far as switching from A to A/B, it's automatic due to the circuit design, no actual switching occurs. My understanding is once the current draw or demand is higher than than the idle current, it naturally begins operating in A/B fashion. This is why people would max out the bias pots trying to stay in A at higher power levels. Then they would wonder why their amps won't stay on for more than a minute or two.

Since I just read a thread on the Steg MSK Classe A, any of you ever listen to one? My guess is that I would have a hard time noticing any better sonic performance (other than raw power) than my SS's. The Picasso is amazing and before that, the 6.0 was the best amp I had heard front stage or on a bench. My Adcom's are great but as soon as I do a quick SS switch, I like the SS sound better. Maybe I'm biased


----------



## ssclassa60

My math in my last post was very poor at best. Sorry it was late...

Below is a great explaination of Class A from zed corp. 3A of idle should be good to about 15W. Not bad for a 25Wx2 amp. 
At the end it calls out that in no way are our amps Class A by definition... 

I always post the text but here's a link to it also:
ZED AUDIO CORPORATION

Class A amplifiers are probably the best sounding of all the classes. The output stages operate at a constant current equal to or greater then the current which the load requires. This means that the output devices (Bipolar, Tubes, Mosfets, IGBTs) are never driven into cut off. They conduct through 360 degrees of the output waveform. All analog amplifiers have input and driver stages which pretty much all operate in pure class A mode. They can because their heat dissipation is relatively low. What are the disadvantages to pure class A amplifiers. Heat! A reasonable powered amplifier dissipates enormous amounts of heat. Please refer to the discussion on Amplifier Efficiency to see some simple calculations of how efficient a class A amplifier is. For this discussion let’s use an average figure of say 15% which is a conservative number. This means that for every 100 watts of power into our amplifier, 85 watts go out as heat and 15 watts go to the loudspeakers! Not a very good situation if you must pay the electric bill. 

Class A amplifiers are configured in either single ended or push pull. Single ended means that the output stage consists of a single amplifying device (Transistor, tube etc.) and it is normally driven from a constant current source but in tube designs it is a transformer. The amplifying device has no ability to sink current, only source current to the load. A push pull stage has two devices, each one delivering current to the load on each half cycle of the waveform. Some consider this type a “hard biased class B” output stage. 

For an amplifier to be classified as “Class A” it is required that the standing current in the output stage be equal to or greater than the maximum load current. This means that if we are using a typical 4 ohm speaker, its impedance may drop to say 1.5 ohms at some frequency. If we have a 50 watt per channel amplifier this requires 14.14 volts to be developed across the load (speaker). So with a 4 ohm load, the current is 14.14/4 = 3.53 amps RMS or 5A peak. With a 1.5 ohm load it is 9.42 amps RMS or 13.32A peak. So in order for our amplifier to remain in pure class A (assuming the typical 4 ohm speaker goes to 1.5 ohms) it must idle at 9.42 amps RMS PER CHANNEL.

Let’s see how the numbers turn out. The 50 watt amplifier runs off supply rails of about +/-25 volts (let’s also assume that this is regulated). The wattage at idle is 13.32 x 50 = 666 watts per channel. This is a total of 1332 watts of heat when the amplifier is just sitting around doing nothing! Let us compare this to if the amplifier ONLY had to drive a 4 ohm load the dissipation would be 5 x 50 = 250 watts per channel and 500 watts total, still not an insignificant amount of heat. 

Any company who claims to have a pure class A amplifier (of reasonable power output and I do not mean 3 watts per channel) for the automobile is simply not telling the consumer the truth. 

There are those who will say that “our amplifier model XX operates in class A up to YY watts and then it switches into class B. This is none sense, a class A amplifier by definition NEVER operates in class B - period.

Class A amplifiers have some disadvantages as far as the power supply is concerned. Due to the high idling current, the power supply must be well filtered to avoid hum and noise. In an amplifier running off 60Hz AC this hum can be significant and the best way to eliminate it is by using fully regulated power supplies. In a car amplifier there is no 60Hz but in order to keep he signal free of noise, regulators in the power supply rails should be used. The common mode rejection ratio is very poor in class A amplifiers and the regulators help to allow the rejection of power supply noise and ripple.


----------



## Old Skewl

Thanks for the Class A info azvrt & ssclassa60. I still manage to learn something every day even as old as I am! Ha Ha! Very interested in the process of checking the bias setting on my 6.0's. Did you say it was adj on the old 50's & 100's too?


----------



## Old Skewl

ssclassa60 said:


> My math in my last post was very poor at best. Sorry it was late...
> 
> Below is a great explaination of Class A from zed corp. 3A of idle should be good to about 15W. Not bad for a 25Wx2 amp.


I think you are referring to the 6.0 in the above statement. If so it is rated at 50 watts per channel not 25. Of course due to its unregulated power supply, they have been tested to put out well over 100 watts rms on 14+volts.


----------



## ssclassa60

Yes, that is correct and my appologies as I was remembering the IASCA rating which is in high current mode...

A SS 6.0 would reach 3A of output at around 15W. I've linked an article from Nelson Pass that discusses when an A/B amp leaves Class A and the benefits of high bias. 

http://firstwatt.com/pdf/art_leave_classa.pdf

I haven't read it in detailyet, but please review and comment!


----------



## ssclassa60

Thought that last article would have stirred some conversation.... 

azvrt - any info available on how to adjust bias (SS / Adcom)? Very curious at this point. Thanks!


----------



## minbari

ssclassa60 said:


> *Thought that last article would have stirred some conversation.... *
> 
> azvrt - any info available on how to adjust bias (SS / Adcom)? Very curious at this point. Thanks!


I am certainly not an amplifier designer, but I dont see the point of an amplifier that starts out class A and moves to Class A/B. (assuming this is even possible, you would have to have a way to shift the bias in the push-pull based on demand)

the idea behind a class A/B is that you dont comsume massive current when idle. so if you start out in class A consuming nearly full current idle, then what is the point of switching to class A/B? in class A/B you will consume just about as much current flat out and the class A will. you havent gained anything.


----------



## azvrt

ssclassa60 said:


> azvrt - any info available on how to adjust bias (SS / Adcom)? Very curious at this point. Thanks!


I´ve sent you an email regarding the Adcoms.
Once I overcome my laziness I will create a SS tutorial for this thread.
Hopefully tomorrow.


----------



## ssclassa60

minbari said:


> I am certainly not an amplifier designer, but I dont see the point of an amplifier that starts out class A and moves to Class A/B. (assuming this is even possible, you would have to have a way to shift the bias in the push-pull based on demand)
> 
> the idea behind a class A/B is that you dont comsume massive current when idle. so if you start out in class A consuming nearly full current idle, then what is the point of switching to class A/B? in class A/B you will consume just about as much current flat out and the class A will. you havent gained anything.


I too am no expert but I regurgitate well...
You are not the only one who questions the semantics that is class A, class A/B, class B, who cares? Please read the article I posted above from Nelson Pass, it provides a bit of an overview. 

http://firstwatt.com/pdf/art_leave_classa.pdf

Class A/B is not a class in itself but describes the hybrid topology that designers developed to get the best from both Class A and Class B designs. All A/B amps run in Class A until a point dictated by its bias current. Higher bias = greater Class A output until naturally going to Class B. Higher bias also results in less THD (discussed in the article as well). 
As for your question on idle current being close to or equal to flat out in Class B:
A Soundstream Class A 6.0 idles at about 3A. This same amp has a 40A fuse and 1600W output array. Simply the perfect balance of pure sonic inefficiency and brute power....


----------



## minbari

No its flat out in class A weather you are idle or full wattage. Class A/B idles very low current and reaches full current at full wattage. Class B is vert similar to A/B except you dont get full wave reproduction.

Sent from my motorola electrify using digital farts


----------



## azvrt

Adcom bias and DC offset check tutorial sent to SSclassa60 by email.


----------



## ssclassa60

Much obligued azvrt...


----------



## Old Skewl

ssclassa60 said:


> Yes, that is correct and my appologies as I was remembering the IASCA rating which is in high current mode...
> 
> A SS 6.0 would reach 3A of output at around 15W. I've linked an article from Nelson Pass that discusses when an A/B amp leaves Class A and the benefits of high bias.
> 
> http://firstwatt.com/pdf/art_leave_classa.pdf
> 
> I haven't read it in detailyet, but please review and comment!


Thanks for posting this info from Pass Labs, ssclassa60. I definitely have a stronger understanding of the workings of a Heavy Class A biased A/B Amp.


----------



## ssclassa60

Snagged a 9/10 3.0 and 6.0 today and saw a pic of this sheet that I attached. Calls out the test protocol for idle current. 6.0<4.5amps, 3.0 <2.8amps. A bit higher than I thought. For a 50x2 amp that's alot of bias!


----------



## Old Skewl

ssclassa60 said:


> Snagged a 9/10 3.0 and 6.0 today and saw a pic of this sheet that I attached. Calls out the test protocol for idle current. 6.0<4.5amps, 3.0 <2.8amps. A bit higher than I thought. For a 50x2 amp that's alot of bias!


You didn't snag those gems off ebay did you? Guy appeared to have some clean amps. Original owner too!

It is hard to read the pic you posted, but those are some high currents for the bias from what we thought!


----------



## ssclassa60

Yup, that sounds right. I ended up dealing for his Ref500 too as he seemed to want them all to go to a good home. 

He has an Arc Lrx 5 channel and Marathon 1 4 channel not up on ebay yet


----------



## Old Skewl

Enjoy them! That would make a nice set up right there. I hope you got them for less that he was asking. Prices were a little steep even for clean amps!


----------



## ssclassa60

Thanks, looking forward to checking them out and going through all my SS's and checking bias. Azvrt sent me a how to for the Adcoms and said he would post a tutorial in this thread at some point. Most importantly, I'm curious as to what his SS engineer friend told him the optimum bias settings are for these amps. What I posted before were the max test limits.
As for pricing I ended up much below asking price and negotiated shipping down as well. I rarely see 3.0's and 6.0's on the market. Usually it's older 50's and 100's lately so I'm glad to have found these.


----------



## Old Skewl

Yeah I have been trying to pick up a cleaner 3.0 for close to 2 years. You don't see too many and when they do pop up they are either beat or the stars just are not. LOL! I have about given up.:dead_horse:


----------



## azvrt

I sent a little SS bias tutorial to ssclassA60.
Some people were asking about the weird SS project I was working on, you can find it here:

Fred's K11 Micra Re-Vamped - SQ & Technical - Talk Audio


----------



## ssclassa60

Nice work!^^^

Anyone can feel free ot PM me for the writeups on Adcom 5450/4304 or SS Ref Class A line. I'll crack open the DaVinci when it arrives to see what's going on inside. I may start a new "how to set SS bias thread" soon to spread the knowledge.


----------



## lsc86

Posted in the Old School Show-Off thread, but I just picked up a NIB Soundstream Rubicon 202 and the dealer still has (2) NIB Rubicon 102 sitting there as well.


----------



## Viggen

Not trying to hijack the thread with a f/s post.... But I have the last of my adcom stuff and need it gone to a good home. I have Xlr cables..... They are aftermarket mogami cables, extremely nice and need a new home. 

If someone knows how to make these cables I would be willing to trade for a set of home audio Xlr cables.....


----------



## ssclassa60

Long time Viggen, saw you sold your GFI's, well done. Wish I needed some Xlr's but I'm only using one Adcom (maybe both) and have really short signal runs. 

lsc - you have pm


----------



## SilkySlim

Old Skewl said:


> Overall they were still good amps. Only problems with these amps were that they had automatic switches for High Power/High Current. Many didn't w ork properly and the amps went up in smoke. Nicknamed "Smokestream"
> 
> The original Reference amps had manual switches for theHigh Power/ High Current.


That's what I remember but when you did get one that work it was awesome! They did sound good. Most I remember failing out of the box.


----------



## JAX

I am back to running SS ref 500sx amps although one of them needs some work. it works but left channel doesnt come on untill the system has been on a while and I turn up the volume. 

it will act this way every time then run for untill I have turned off car a while. it also has cut off a few times but thats rare. main issue is the 1-2 minute delay. 

the other 500sx I have works fine .


can anyone tell me what LEDs are supposed to be on when powered ? 

I have 1 500sx bridged running 4ohms. I think power led is on and the LEFT LED is on.

I cant recall what LED the picky one is running at the moment.



what I found very odd is when I hooked up the working 500sx I forgot to put the fuse in for the + cable from terminal block. 

the sub was hooked up and still played. the amp had no power but still output...I guess there was still some juice left in the amp. but the seller told me he hadnt used it in a long time. was funny when I showed my neighbor it was running with no power.


not to find a 700 or 702 for my sub


I love these amps. they wire up nicely, are small and well made and strong . 

40 amp fuse and yet they are as loud as I really need. compared to some amps with 60-80amps these are little work horses.


----------



## Old Skewl

Jax, I am not sure if there is a way to clean those auto switches. My Original Reference series do the same thing when the manual switches get dirty. 

I finally hooked up my Reference 705 in my system(I'll take some pics when it is mounted on a rack.) Currently running it 3 way active to a set of Boston Pro 6.4's and single 10.4 sub. I realize the speakers are old school efficient but it gets plenty loud for my old skewl ears. I am going to try to implement an Alpine PXA-H100 to get the staging right. We will see. 

OS Soundstream FWIW!!!!


----------



## JAX

Old Skewl said:


> Jax, I am not sure if there is a way to clean those auto switches. My Original Reference series do the same thing when the manual switches get dirty.
> 
> 
> OS Soundstream FWIW!!!!



explain what you mean? you talking about the auto high current to high power switch? 

one thing that effects it I think is turning up the volume. the bad side comes up faster when volume is increased. I was told AFTER i bought it that was the ESR bank charging up.

I dont know but I wasnt very happy about it since I wasnt told before I bought it .. since then he has has a nice little thread about him posted from me.


----------



## Old Skewl

That sucks! 

Sorry I wasn't thinking straight. It is the Bridge/Stereo switch that causes the scenario.


----------



## JAX

Old Skewl said:


> That sucks!
> 
> Sorry I wasn't thinking straight. It is the Bridge/Stereo switch that causes the scenario.



if I clean the switches how long before I can hook it back up?


----------



## TrickyRicky

JAX said:


> explain what you mean? you talking about the auto high current to high power switch?
> 
> one thing that effects it I think is turning up the volume. the bad side comes up faster when volume is increased*. I was told AFTER i bought it that was the ESR bank charging up.*
> 
> I dont know but I wasnt very happy about it since I wasnt told before I bought it .. since then he has has a nice little thread about him posted from me.



The ESR bank is for the power supply, their refer to as the DC filter section. That will not cause one channel to be muted while the other is playing perfectly. 

As you will notice jax, that those ESR bank caps are all parallel so it would not even make sense saying that's the cause for the muted channel. The feb board has the mute circuit, so if anything that would be the cause. The switches are easy to clean out with "DeoxIt", but not necessarily the problem/cause of the muted channel. With a dmm you can check if there is continuity on the switches (to see if its working properly).


----------



## TrickyRicky

JAX said:


> if I clean the switches how long before I can hook it back up?


Depends on what you use, I use DeoxIt and that specifies to wait atleast 2min before powering up. I would wait 5-10 minutes (go grab a cold one or two, lol).


----------



## JAX

TrickyRicky said:


> Depends on what you use, I use DeoxIt and that specifies to wait atleast 2min before powering up. I would wait 5-10 minutes (go grab a cold one or two, lol).



well since I am going to send it to you soon I am not going to touch it. I have spent last few days listening to it and I like them a lot.

about the ESR so the dude was feeding me crap heh?

I may file paypal right now instead.


----------



## Old Skewl

TrickRicky got you your info. I am not saying this is the issue, but it is easy to try and has resolved the issue on 2 of my Original Reference amps and a Class A100. I usually wait a couple minutes.


----------



## TrickyRicky

JAX said:


> well since I am going to send it to you soon I am not going to touch it. I have spent last few days listening to it and I like them a lot.
> 
> about the ESR so the dude was feeding me crap heh?
> 
> I may file paypal right now instead.


Not feeding you crap...more like he doesn't know crap. If he specifically told you that "the ESR bank is charging and that's why the muted channel takes a bit to cut on" then he either doesn't know what he is talking about or is full of BS.

Like I mentioned before he should of given you a partial refund so you could have it repaired at no loss. There has been quite a few members that are willing to cover shipping for you (to send it back to the seller....and even to me and back to you ***can't say his name but he is willing to do that for you).


----------



## TrickyRicky

Old Skewl said:


> TrickRicky got you your info. I am not saying this is the issue, but it is easy to try and has resolved the issue on 2 of my Original Reference amps and a Class A100. I usually wait a couple minutes.


Of course it doesn't hurt to clean them. Heck I do that to all the amps I get in for repair....regardless if they need it or not. Just for peace of mind.


----------



## JAX

what do you guys think about a Ref 5.0 class A ? I can get one thats mint for what I feel a good price. its chrome and has box...

I need to decide quick before he sells it to one of them amp whores on ebay


----------



## BaasTurbo

I'm a HUGE fan of these amps. I totally regret selling my 3.0 and 6.0 back in the day. Now I have an MC300 powering my Morel front stage in the Prelude... All 90s gear, none of it refurbished, still good to win an SQ comp in the Experienced class by a fair margin.

Paid 75 bucks for that amp in 8/10 condition and working flawless, but drove 200 miles to get it.

Still looking for the right 3.0 and 6.0, SPL Mule (intriguing sub) and Exact 12 (know one for sale for 250... way too steep, even if it's 9/10). About to pull the trigger on a gen 1 Rubi 1002, also found a Human Reign locally bnib but for 5k (lol).


----------



## turbo5upra

I think you would hold onto it for a couple months- considering its you- that's impressive


----------



## JAX

turbo5upra said:


> I think you would hold onto it for a couple months- considering its you- that's impressive



you talking about me? lol...


----------



## turbo5upra

Lol- no... Me?


----------



## ssclassa60

I have 2 Mules I ran in my prelude (sq) in an IB setup that I might part with. An extra 6.0 too. Shoot me a pm


----------



## bkjay

Hi guys.Does anyone have any history on the origin of Soundstream. Stuff like the original owners,how they started, design and engineer team and so on.Also I have a few of the original Rubicons,any info on who designed these? These were right after Wade left.
Thanks


----------



## prince427c

Soon, I will be able to install my Adcom GFA 4404. I will be making a bridging cable for it before then. I do have a question about the GFI-4600 though. Is is possible to use the balanced out to amps other than Adcoms? I know the pin layouts are different between the 4 and 5 series, but I'm not sure it can be wired for other amps, like say...the Orion NT series.


----------



## bkjay

bkjay said:


> Hi guys.Does anyone have any history on the origin of Soundstream. Stuff like the original owners,how they started, design and engineer team and so on.Also I have a few of the original Rubicons,any info on who designed these? These were right after Wade left.
> Thanks


Nothing nadda?


----------



## buffalobill989

ive got a linear power 2202, soundstream Picasso and a class a 10.0. the class a 10. does not work. was going to install the Picasso and class a 10.0 but when tested the guy told me the 10.0 had 10 burned out fets. said he was having trouble finding them. funny I havnt heard from them in a week. I think ill be going and getting my amps back. anyone now where I can get the 10 fixed. I replaced with a ref 4.400 and a 1.1000. we'll see how they sound compared to old. love my old school stuff.


----------



## roduk

5 pages and hardy any pics  - I better address that!!

All SS Rubi Class A system in my baby - All rebuilt by Genesis top man Gordon Taylor to be the best they possibly can be 










One Picasso each side and a 10.2 on the Velodyne.


----------



## Coppertone

^^^^. That is just pure PORN, please share more or at least a video of them shaking their rump lol.


----------



## roduk

Coppertone said:


> ^^^^. That is just pure PORN, please share more or at least a video of them shaking their rump lol.


Installation Feature: The Rug Doctor


----------



## Coppertone

Thank you kindly for that link.


----------



## roduk

Coppertone said:


> Thank you kindly for that link.


No worries, it's not got KEF's anymore it's running Veritas Horns and a pair of Dynaudio Esotar 650's in the doors…

Build thread here


----------



## Coppertone

Wow, talk about taking it up several notches. I just purchased two SoundStream amps from Grizz Archer that I am having a display case made, and these will be featured in it. I really like unique pieces and hey I have to start somewhere correct ?


----------



## roduk

Coppertone said:


> Wow, talk about taking it up several notches. I just purchased two SoundStream amps from Grizz Archer that I am having a display case made, and these will be featured in it. I really like unique pieces and hey I have to start somewhere correct ?


Sure do! Thing is I loved SS stuff back when I was a teenager, but couldn't afford the good stuff, I did buy a few of their Granite series and then a 705 but always wanted these Polished bad boys.. If these weren't in the car they'd be in a display case alongside my MC4000M too!


----------



## Coppertone

Wow you really DO have some great gear, I can only live vicariously through you lol..


----------



## Old Skewl

Nice install! I always loved the 914's. They used to be very popular in SCCA racing! Pretty challenging car to install a system in though!


----------



## nautic70

I have a Soundstream 10.0 class a that I have been thinking about getting rid of and I can find nothing for them as far as value. It is in good shape probably a solid 8.0-8.5. What do you guys think?


----------



## Blazemore

roduk said:


> 5 pages and hardy any pics  - I better address that!!
> 
> All SS Rubi Class A system in my baby - All rebuilt by Genesis top man Gordon Taylor to be the best they possibly can be


Did Gordon note what was done to the amps?


----------



## roduk

Blazemore said:


> Did Gordon note what was done to the amps?


All new caps, rewound power supply, changed all the opamps, re did bias. 

Oh and removed the filters on the 10.2 to run my velodyne subwoofer properly..


----------



## buffalobill989

nautic70 said:


> I have a Soundstream 10.0 class a that I have been thinking about getting rid of and I can find nothing for them as far as value. It is in good shape probably a solid 8.0-8.5. What do you guys think?


I don't think its worth very much. id give you a 100 for it


----------



## SilkySlim

I give you a little more than that lol. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------

