# Hertz H8 DSP or Audison bit-Ten D?



## QualitySound

Hi Guys. It's been a while. I hope everyone is well.

I'm up to the point where my next step is a DSP. I was planning on picking the Audison bit-Ten D, but then the guy at my local shop told me that there is the Hertz H8 too. (Hertz H8 DSP car audio processor)

Anyone know how the H8 (I doubt they meant that to sound like "hate") compares to the bit-Ten D? I'm trying to keep the choice between just those two.

I'm looking for an 8 ch DSP for (finally!) a 4-way full active build (Comps up front for treble and upper midrange, mids in the rear for lower midbass, and a sub). And just to be clear, the rears will not be rear-fill. I will cross the front and rear mid drivers so (as much as possible) they will play different frequencies.


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## DC/Hertz

The bit ten is only 5 channels. You will want the bit 1 or H8. I'd say the H8 due to it being a lot cheaper.


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## QualitySound

Is the bit-Ten only 5 ch? I thought it might be 8 because the Audison website says,

"Thanks to the AD Link connection, the available outputs become 8 in total, all in digital format; they can also be used simultaneously with the analog ones (for a maximum of 8 outputs total)" (Audison bit - bit Ten D).

Any word on what that means in terms of number of channels?


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## SkizeR

neither. use that money for something better. JL twk, a helix 8 channel, etc etc..


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## DC/Hertz

QualitySound said:


> Is the bit-Ten only 5 ch? I thought it might be 8 because the Audison website says,
> 
> "Thanks to the AD Link connection, the available outputs become 8 in total, all in digital format; they can also be used simultaneously with the analog ones (for a maximum of 8 outputs total)" (Audison bit - bit Ten D).
> 
> Any word on what that means in terms of number of channels?


That's only if you have the AD link which only works with select Audison amps. The H8 appears to be a great unit regardless. And a bit cheaper.


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## QualitySound

Why are others better than the Audison or Hertz?


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## SkizeR

QualitySound said:


> Why are others better than the Audison or Hertz?


1) audison uses only graphic eq, not parametric
2) you wont be getting the typical high noise floor of audison units
3) you wont have to deal with the unreliability/bugs of the audison units
4) the audisons are way overpriced for their feature set
5) with the new helix, you get all pass filters
6) with the helix (and supposedly the twk) you can do differential rear fill if you use rear speakers
7) the twk will be cheaper overall while being more powerful than the audisons
8) the helix will be way more powerful and about the same price as the audisons


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## DC/Hertz

Neither the JL or Helix offers De-EQ. That's what makes the Hertz and Audison stand out if using a stock HU 

I never had a issue with the Bit one and it got the heck beat out of it in a 150db car. But to each is own.


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> Neither the JL or Helix offers De-EQ. That's what makes the Hertz and Audison stand out if using a stock HU
> 
> I never had a issue with the Bit one and it got the heck beat out of it in a 150db car. But to each is own.


actually the helix pro does, and i THINK the helix mk2 does as well. then theres the JL fix if you want to use the JL twk. still a cheaper combo than a new bit 1


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## DC/Hertz

I like the fix TwK combo with the optical. They made a good value with that one. I though the Helix only had a few bands of input EQ?


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> I like the fix TwK combo with the optical. They made a good value with that one. I though the Helix only had a few bands of input EQ?


5 bands of parametric eq is all you need for input eq. even then, it doesnt really matter. you can always just eq the output. id be more concerned about fixing factory time alignment and phase adjustments. the fix does both, the audisons do not. unfortunately it doesnt fix all pass filters


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## DC/Hertz

True. The clean sweep was a joke. The FiX is really nice.


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## MrGreen83

QualitySound said:


> Is the bit-Ten only 5 ch? I thought it might be 8 because the Audison website says,
> 
> 
> 
> "Thanks to the AD Link connection, the available outputs become 8 in total, all in digital format; they can also be used simultaneously with the analog ones (for a maximum of 8 outputs total)" (Audison bit - bit Ten D).
> 
> 
> 
> Any word on what that means in terms of number of channels?




You'll need Audison Voce amps and the Bit-In module to get 8 channels with the Bit Ten D. If these are your only choices.........then I would do the Hertz most importantly because you said u needed 8 channels. And secondly because i haven't heard anyone complain about issues with it yet, like I have with the Audison DSP's. 


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## QualitySound

So the Hertz, but not the Audison, is 8 ch. 

And the JL FiX seems good (but is not 8 ch?).

And I remember people liked the RF 3Sixty.3.

And MiniDSP gets good comments.

And everyone seems to like Helix DSP.

And what about AudioControl DM-608?

Any other 8 ch DSP's I should compare?

And when I do compare 8 ch DSP's for a 4-way active build with comps up front for treble and upper midrange, mids in the rear for lower midbass (NOT for rear fill), and a sub, are there particular features and specs that are important to look for? Like filter slope options, parametric EQ, leveling of input signal from HU, bandpass for rear midbass drivers, output volts, or what else? Are there any out there that are particularly really good, and a good price, for 4-way active system?


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## SkizeR

The fix is not a dsp. The twk is. The audio control is way overpriced for its features 

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## QualitySound

SkizeR said:


> 1) audison uses only graphic eq, not parametric
> 2) you wont be getting the typical high noise floor of audison units
> 3) you wont have to deal with the unreliability/bugs of the audison units
> 4) the audisons are way overpriced for their feature set
> 5) with the new helix, you get all pass filters
> 6) with the helix (and supposedly the twk) you can do differential rear fill if you use rear speakers
> 7) the twk will be cheaper overall while being more powerful than the audisons
> 8) the helix will be way more powerful and about the same price as the audisons


Thanks for this SkizeR.

I have a few questions about what you said, so I can understand. I hope it's not hassle to explain some basics.

2) What is a "noise floor?"

5) Are "all pass filters" the same as the "full range" amp setting, so all frequencies go through, not crossed at all?

6) What is "differential rear fill?" My rears are low midbass, not fill.

7/8) Does power (output voltage?) matter, since it's going to the amps?

And as DC/Hertz said, isn't De-EQ a really good feature?


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## QualitySound

SkizeR said:


> 5 bands of parametric eq is all you need for input eq. even then, it doesnt really matter. you can always just eq the output. id be more concerned about fixing factory* time alignment and phase adjustments*. the fix does both, t*he audisons do not.* unfortunately it doesnt fix all pass filters


The websites say H8 and bit-Ten both have TA and phase adjustments.

Click on "tech sheets" at
Audison bit - bit Ten D
Hertz H8 DSP car audio processor


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## SkizeR

QualitySound said:


> The websites say H8 and bit-Ten both have TA and phase adjustments.
> 
> Click on "tech sheets" at
> Audison bit - bit Ten D
> Hertz H8 DSP car audio processor


Of course they have it. But on the outputs. The jl fix takes the input signal, and flattens it out and corrects the factory signal delay (and I think phase) to let you start out with a perfectly flat signal. Pretty sure no other unit does factory signal delay compensation 

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## SkizeR

QualitySound said:


> Thanks for this SkizeR.
> 
> I have a few questions about what you said, so I can understand. I hope it's not hassle to explain some basics.
> 
> 2) What is a "noise floor?"
> 
> 5) Are "all pass filters" the same as the "full range" amp setting, so all frequencies go through, not crossed at all?
> 
> 6) What is "differential rear fill?" My rears are low midbass, not fill.
> 
> 7/8) Does power (output voltage?) matter, since it's going to the amps?
> 
> And as DC/Hertz said, isn't De-EQ a really good feature?


2) noise floor is.. well, noise floor. Ever hear that slight noise when nothing is playing that sounds like white noise? That would be the noise floor of your equipment

5) no. All pass filters are a type of band limited phase adjustment. Helix is the first to implement them in a car audio dsp

6) L-R/R-L

7) unless it's super low, not really

Yes, but it's not super important. You will still be able to eq the overall response after the fact whether you have a flat input signal or not

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## rton20s

Hey Marc, I got your PM. I tend to be with Skizer on this one. Though, there is something to be said for a dealer working with products that they sell, support and tune on a regular basis. Though even with solid, local support, it can still be frustrating if you have issues with a product.

What other brands does your dealer sell? Anything outside of Elettromedia (Hertz/Audison)? 

If not, and you want to stick with something from the dealer, I would certainly go with the Hertz H8 over the bit Ten D as you will need the additional channels for the setup you described.


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## QualitySound

My dealer only has Elettromedia DSP's, but can get me good deals on stuff he does not carry, if I don't let him talk me out of it.

So JL twk is good, as you guys say, and much less pricey than Helix.

There is still the MiniDSP C-DSP 6x8 out there too. It is really inexpensive, and everything I've read about it is positive.

Any thoughts about comparisons between the twk and 6x8?


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## SkizeR

QualitySound said:


> My dealer only has Elettromedia DSP's, but can get me good deals on stuff he does not carry, if I don't let him talk me out of it.
> 
> So JL twk is good, as you guys say, and much less pricey than Helix.
> 
> There is still the MiniDSP C-DSP 6x8 out there too. It is really inexpensive, and everything I've read about it is positive.
> 
> Any thoughts about comparisons between the twk and 6x8?


twk is more powerful. 10 bands of parametric eq as opposed to 6


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## Lycancatt

the hertz would be my only choice out of the original two you mentioned..the audisions tuff is just aweful from what I've dealt with.

rf unit is nice, helix is nicer.


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## DC/Hertz

The RF has more bugs then Audison. You can't say it's nice then knock on Audison.


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## SkizeR

people say its buggy, but ive never actually heard of any issues with it. curious what those bugs are


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## DC/Hertz

For first hand experience. They drop tunes. Now this was a while ago, I don't know if they ever got a update. The guy replaced it with a mini and didn't have any more issues.


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## QualitySound

Lycancatt said:


> the hertz would be my only choice out of the original two you mentioned..the audisions tuff is just aweful from what I've dealt with.
> 
> rf unit is nice, helix is nicer.


Thanks for your advice, Lycancatt.

I remember your suggesting the RF once before.

Strange that Audison would not listen to all the criticism of their DSP's from so many people who post about them. And while they're at it, they should make the bit-Ten with 8 ch for all amps, not just for their own AV link amps. But anyway, whatever. Sounds like they did better with the Hertz.

If you are familiar with the JL twk, any thoughts how that fits into the mix?

And is De-EQ an important feature or not so much?


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## DC/Hertz

If the bit 10 had 8 channels it would be a bit 1. It filled a lower price point for 2 way plus sub


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## MrGreen83

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## MrGreen83

I see a lot of complaints on diyma (mainly from a repetitive group of people) about the Audison DSP's but I still see very reputable shops/installers posting builds on FB/IG/YouTube with Bit One's and Bit Ten D's....

Why not boycott the brand (DSP wise) if they don't do what they're supposed to do? Obviously not "everyone" is having issues with them. 

Wouldn't that be bad for business to keep selling, and repairing systems? And then the shop end up with a bad reputation? 


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## SkizeR

MrGreen83 said:


> I see a lot of complaints on diyma (mainly from a repetitive group of people) about the Audison DSP's but I still see very reputable shops/installers posting builds on FB/IG/YouTube with Bit One's and Bit Ten D's....
> 
> Why not boycott the brand (DSP wise) if they don't do what they're supposed to do? Obviously not "everyone" is having issues with them.
> 
> Wouldn't that be bad for business to keep selling, and repairing systems? And then the shop end up with a bad reputation?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


what you fail to realize is that is because theres a difference between hobbyists and shops.

first things first, shops are there to make profit. at the end of the day, theyre just like every other business. elettromedia has the highest percentage markup ive seen on equipment to date. obviously this is appealing to dealers. second, dealers make relationships with various companies/rep firms over time. this gets them various benefits. but most importantly, they get familiar (read: comfortable/"locked it") with their products. no business is going to jump from company to company (causes issues and isnt good business) or pick up every company (not that theyre really able to, and also not good business) because 1) its to much stuff to carry. they wont be able to move enough product of each company to satisfy quotas. 2) most dealers dont give a rats ass enough to learn more products than they have to. and last but not least, most dealers/installers dont even know how to tune. not even the basics. and the ones who have a grasp on it, i have never.. i repeat, NEVER seen a dealer do every little thing they can to optimize sound while tuning a dsp. usually just get it good enough and call it done. actually, i lied. there is one i know of but they specialize in tuning. 

a hobbyist on the other hand, doesnt have to make relationships, meet quotas, worry about profit, etc etc. all they want is the best they can get and get their car sounding the best it possibly can. no one said the audison stuff flat out doesnt work. but from a hobbyist standpoint, and even from a business standpoint, using audison dsp's is a waste of time/money if your trying to get the best sound possible. 

edit: this is coming from someone who balances hobbyist and dealer. when im on here, its pure hobbyist talking. none of you are my customer. i am not selling you anything. you are all hobbyists with the same hobby as me, therefor i post based on what i would want as a hobbyist. otherwise i'd just be saying "try out whatever your good local dealer wants to sell you", aka the exact opposite point of this forum


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## MrGreen83

"BitOne is a nearly 10 year old platform. It has its quirks. I sell very few BitOnes because of that. I have spent the last 4+ years staying in business selling BitTens. Dozens of them. They work, and work well. They are very reliable. There was a run of them that had a weird 'white noise' issue, but they were swapped out by Elettromedia, no questions asked. 

As far as profit, it's absolutely necessary. As it is for those that sell computer software or strawberries. 
The 12Volt world is such a strange environment. Customers expect us to do work for them at no charge that they would not expect in any other industry. Then they want gear at the bottom dollar. 
You can't get house plans drawn up by an architect without paying for them. That's not the house itself, just the plans. 
You'd not expect a painter to paint you a picture, then take a photo of the picture and tell him to keep it and not pay him, while you get the picture printed and framed. 
To expect a business to not make money is the epitome of ignorance. And to also expect a business, folks force to make next to nothing, to be there to help a month or a year from now is equally ignorant. They won't be around. 

On the topic of tuning, there are MANY shops that know how to tune and can optimize EVERY aspect of a system, the problem is there aren't the clients That are willing to pay what it takes to get there. Additionally, most clients have their own taste, making it impossible to 'dial it in' perfectly for them. It's a process. 
We use the term 'acoustic neutral' which means a flat response with similar arrival times. Beyond that, it's up to our clients to help us optimize the system for them. "


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## DC/Hertz

Hertz isn't overpriced. Everything I've got from them has meet it's price point. Hell I've ran 2x rated to the XLs for 5 years and never heard them get stressed. And I'm a abusive user. And I know how to critical listen. And Audison has always responded to email or Facebook within a few days.


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> Hertz isn't overpriced. Everything I've got from them has meet it's price point. Hell I've ran 2x rated to the XLs for 5 years and never heard them get stressed. And I'm a abusive user. And I know how to critical listen. And Audison has always responded to email or Facebook within a few days.


no offense, but you wouldnt really know. you have never ran anything other than car audio gear. not saying that theyre bad, but **** man.. theres so much better out there for a lesser (sometimes much lesser) cost


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## DC/Hertz

And you are fre to have your opinion. I beg to differ. They held thier own with 150db of bass under them. That's not a easy task.


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## SkizeR

MrGreen83 said:


> "BitOne is a nearly 10 year old platform. It has its quirks. I sell very few BitOnes because of that. I have spent the last 4+ years staying in business selling BitTens. Dozens of them. They work, and work well. They are very reliable. There was a run of them that had a weird 'white noise' issue, but they were swapped out by Elettromedia, no questions asked.


exactly what im talking about in terms of making a relationship and staying in their comfort zone. why would chris (hes your guy you ask, right?) ditch audison for something better after him already making a good business relationship with them. or why spend the time learning something else when it already works "good enough"? and yes, they do work. ive stated that multiple times. but there is much better out there without question



MrGreen83 said:


> The 12Volt world is such a strange environment. Customers expect us to do work for them at no charge that they would not expect in any other industry. Then they want gear at the bottom dollar.
> You can't get house plans drawn up by an architect without paying for them. That's not the house itself, just the plans.
> You'd not expect a painter to paint you a picture, then take a photo of the picture and tell him to keep it and not pay him, while you get the picture printed and framed.
> To expect a business to not make money is the epitome of ignorance. And to also expect a business, folks force to make next to nothing, to be there to help a month or a year from now is equally ignorant. They won't be around.


not sure what this has to do with anything, but ok..? 



MrGreen83 said:


> On the topic of tuning, there are MANY shops that know how to tune and can optimize EVERY aspect of a system, the problem is there aren't the clients That are willing to pay what it takes to get there. Additionally, most clients have their own taste, making it impossible to 'dial it in' perfectly for them. It's a process.
> We use the term 'acoustic neutral' which means a flat response with similar arrival times. Beyond that, it's up to our clients to help us optimize the system for them. "


many.. i beg to differ. id say that theres only a handful of shops that can tune like some of the guys who compete and are doing well in their classes. you just happen to live by one that can do a decent job from what ive heard. adjusting to someones taste is pretty easy. you should be able to get a general idea just from talking to them. adjustments after that are usually quick. i tune for people on the side (usually doing the tuning on dsp's that shops install but have zero knowledge on how to tune them). out of the tens of cars ive done, ive only had one person ask for adjustments (slight adjustments that took less than 2 minutes i might add) after the tune was done. all i do is ask for a basic description of what their goals are.


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> And you are fre to have your opinion. I beg to differ. They held thier own with 150db of bass under them. That's not a easy task.


that doesnt really tell me much.. crescendo drivers can do the same but sound like utter trash


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## DC/Hertz

Nick you know better.


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## QualitySound

SkizeR, You changed your equipment? How do you like the ST amps, or have you started another thread about all that?


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## SkizeR

QualitySound said:


> SkizeR, You changed your equipment? How do you like the ST amps, or have you started another thread about all that?


Different car. The equipment now is from my daily driver. My 300zx is having some changes done. Might as well show what I'm currently using. The amps.. they play music. 

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## ANS

Does anyone actually go into depth into the software?!? I demoed the software suite of several dsp's before settling on my Audison Bit Ten D. It might not have the best specs out of all the dsp's on the market but it is far from the worst. The software in my opinion is the most user friendly out of any of the dsp's out there. I tried the software of JL's, Mosconi, Massive Audio, PPI, Zapco, Helix, and Minidsp. Out of them all, Audison and minidsp have the best laid out software suite.


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