# Looks like this is the end of mObridge integration products...



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I am wondering if this is the last we will see of mObridge aftermarket integration products...

With the 2016 releases of Mercedes and Audi vehicles, incorporating the newer MOST 150 protocol, and BMW (and others) following suit; I had asked mObridge if they were intent on developing an integration unit (like the DA1 or DA3), that would work with this new (faster 150) system. 

Here is the response they sent to me (which was also was just posted in the DA3 thread):



mobridge said:


> The development time for this system is around 2 years and about $500K in investment. Given what we know on the MOST25 series we know that it would take around 5 years just to break even.
> 
> Also MOST150 is audio encrypted and the ECU's need to be married into the system via coding back to Germany. As a business case this product doesn't come anywhere near close to making sense.
> 
> ...


It's definitely not good news... but completely understandable. The market demand simply does not justify the expense to develop new products for this 'niche segment'.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

This situation will become more and more common in the future. The complexity of vehicles in general is escalating at an exponential rate, and the audio portion is included in that. It's unfortunate. DSP's and their ability to de-EQ the factory signal are only going to become more essential, not necessarily as EQ's, but more as integration modules. Just another left turn that it will take the industry manufacturers a decade or more to catch up to.


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Would you still be able to utilize the DA2 ?


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

This sucks. I am looking at new 2017 BMW and Mercedes sedans as possibly my next car. I guess I better get a JL Fix-82 when I get my next car.


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

I was looking at buying an Audi Q5 with a MOST bus. Will the DA2 be able to replace the factory amp so you can run RCAs to an aftermarket amp or DSP? 


Sent from my


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

dont be to sad guys. as technology gets better, its becoming easier and easier to bypass the factory systems as a whole.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Flyhogz said:


> Would you still be able to utilize the DA2 ?


Not on a newer (2017+) model...


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> dont be to sad guys. as technology gets better, its becoming easier and easier to bypass the factory systems as a whole.


Unfortunately, as more technology is required to do this the cost also gets much higher. The cost of the mobridge units were already a bit of a stretch so I can't imagine what the next generation of technology will set us back.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HIS4 said:


> Unfortunately, as more technology is required to do this the cost also gets much higher. The cost of the mobridge units were already a bit of a stretch so I can't imagine what the next generation of technology will set us back.


if you can afford the cars that require mobridge, im sure as **** you can afford the mobridge itself without any issue lol


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> if you can afford the cars that require mobridge, im sure as **** you can afford the mobridge itself without any issue lol



It seems like a pretty petty thing to be complaining about, myself included. Lol.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Flyhogz said:


> It seems like a pretty petty thing to complain be complaining about, myself included. Lol.


it really is.. "oh no i need to spend 600 dollars (or so) on a very niche product to perfectly integrate an expensive aftermarket system in to my 70 thousand dollar plus porsche?! this is an outrage!"


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> if you can afford the cars that require mobridge, im sure as **** you can afford the mobridge itself without any issue lol


It's not a matter of can you afford it. It's more will people be willing to spend that on an "adapter". For the non enthusiast, that's really what it is. A $600 adapter. Does one less D/A conversion really soound $600 better? 

FYI, the $35k BMW, Mercedes, and Audis also use MOST so I wouldn't assume that all people who have these cars have endless disposable income.

The bigger picture here is that as more car manufacturers adpopt this sort if technology for their OEM systems the closer the aftermarket gets to becoming too expensive for the masses and altogether obsolete.


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

This doesn't only apply to mobridge but other factory integration technologies as well. I inquired recently about the idatalink maestro technology being expanded to Audi and Porsche since they have already touched on VW (basically the same parent company). They gave a similar response. The market is not big enough for them to expand to those vehicles.


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

I am more or less contemplating whether I should just go with the base system without the MOST bus when I trade my car in. My old Q5 and my current A4 both run the CAN bus and it wasn't too complicated to bypass the factory amp. I can live without the full factory integration. 


Sent from my


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

I guess I am becoming a rare breed as I am looking for a car in which I do not have to "integrate" to install a system. I prefer the choice of being able to use my own head unit and such versus having to be forced into the current ideology that seems to be running rampant in the auto industry. They make their systems and electronics more and more proprietary which seems to be nothing more than a way for their buyers to have to return to their dealership if anything goes wrong resulting in more money in the dealerships pockets....


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Flyhogz said:


> I more or less contemplating whether I should just go with the base system without the B&O when I trade my car in. My old Q5 and my current A4 both run the CAN bus and it wasn't too complicated to bypass the factory amp. I can live without out the full factory integration.
> 
> 
> Sent from my


If you are already planning on upgrading the system, there is no reason to pay for the upgraded sound package which is always more difficult to integrate. Audi's B&O system can be integrated after the amp with a line converter like the Audiocontrol LC2 so there are still options if you don't want to deal with the MOST bus but why pay the extra money for B&O if you're going to bypass the heart of the B&O system. There are no features to gain on the head end with B&O vs the base system.

Your bigger issue might be actually getting a non B&O car unless you are planning to special order. I lot of dealers will included it as their standard build for their lot cars as it's built in profit for them.


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

sq2k1 said:


> I guess I am becoming a rare breed as I am looking for a car in which I do not have to "integrate" to install a system. I prefer the choice of being able to use my own head unit and such versus having to be forced into the current ideology that seems to be running rampant in the auto industry. They make their systems and electronics more and more proprietary which seems to be nothing more than a way for their buyers to have to return to their dealership if anything goes wrong resulting in more money in the dealerships pockets....


Integration is really just the lesser of 2 evils. Are you willing to lose functionality that is built into the factory head to use aftermarket equipment. A lot of times, that's what it comes down to and some of those features lost go beyond just audio functions.


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

That is exactly my point......you should not have to lose other functionalities because you opt to use something aftermarket....I mean what is next? Take out the factory head unit and the car will only go in reverse? Audio functionality should be just that, for audio. It should not be tied into several other systems which can lead to a plethora of other issues like unwanted noise and such.

I lost the functionality of my steering wheel volume controls and such when I switched to my aftermarket head unit. I never blinked an eye over it because I found them odd to use while driving. I prefer using my remote as that is what I became familiar with using over the years. It just boils down to personal taste I guess, but I just really dislike the path that car audio is heading down with the car makers making it a necessity to have OEM in place.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> dont be to sad guys. as technology gets better, its becoming easier and easier to bypass the factory systems as a whole.


This is true... but I really like the Audi MMI system, and I consider my mObridge unit to be the _'crown jewel' _of my aftermarket gear.

With regards to the overall cost of the unit; the mObridge was probably the least expensive single piece of equipment in my build ($650). In all honesty, I would have paid twice the price for it, and still been happy. It was all about the seamless integration to the factory system, and the absolutely clean / flat output signal that it provided. No EQ'ing required - nothing. And every part of my factory MMI system is still 100% functional.

I know I can do the same thing, by running the speaker outputs into the high level input of a DSP, and with a few hours of REW and tuning, I can EQ the factory signal to something close to flat. Sadly, it seems that this is what I'll need to do on my next vehicle (probably another Audi in a few years).

As I mentioned in my original post; I am disappointed that mObridge will no longer be pursuing this market, because their products were fantastic (for the few of us that needed / wanted them). But I fully understand that the return on investment just doesn't seem to be there on these _niche _products.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jimmydee said:


> This is true... but I really like the Audi MMI system, and I consider my mObridge unit to be the _'crown jewel' _of my aftermarket gear.
> 
> With regards to the overall cost of the unit; the mObridge was probably the least expensive single piece of equipment in my build ($650). In all honesty, I would have paid twice the price for it, and still been happy. It was all about the seamless integration to the factory system, and the absolutely clean / flat output signal that it provided. No EQ'ing required - nothing. And every part of my factory MMI system is still 100% functional.
> 
> ...


And that tuning the high level inputs is only eq. You can fix all pass filters and can only be guessing at signal delay. I tuned an audi recently that was high level into a dsp, and no matter what you did, you couldn't get anything from the 600hz area. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

sq2k1 said:


> That is exactly my point......you should not have to lose other functionalities because you opt to use something aftermarket....I mean what is next? Take out the factory head unit and the car will only go in reverse? Audio functionality should be just that, for audio. It should not be tied into several other systems which can lead to a plethora of other issues like unwanted noise and such.
> 
> I lost the functionality of my steering wheel volume controls and such when I switched to my aftermarket head unit. I never blinked an eye over it because I found them odd to use while driving. I prefer using my remote as that is what I became familiar with using over the years. It just boils down to personal taste I guess, but I just really dislike the path that car audio is heading down with the car makers making it a necessity to have OEM in place.


In my 2006 Lexus IS250, I take out the factory head unit and I loose the heat and A/C. There is a small circuit board that I can remove from the factory head unit that loops the data back to the heat and A/C to get it back working, but that destroys the factory head unit. A replacement factory head unit was priced to me at $1500 by my dealer. Thankfully the Lexus engineers left just enough slack in the wiring harness so that the factory head unit can be moved to the glovebox. I've got a Pioneer P99rs in the dash now, but I still have to make a custom trim panel to finish the dash.


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## MikeS (May 23, 2015)

cmusic said:


> In my 2006 Lexus IS250, I take out the factory head unit and I loose the heat and A/C. There is a small circuit board that I can remove from the factory head unit that loops the data back to the heat and A/C to get it back working, but that destroys the factory head unit. A replacement factory head unit was priced to me at $1500 by my dealer. Thankfully the Lexus engineers left just enough slack in the wiring harness so that the factory head unit can be moved to the glovebox. I've got a Pioneer P99rs in the dash now, but I still have to make a custom trim panel to finish the dash.


Have you seen these double din kits, would one fit? Lexus IS 250 2006

But I guess factory unit in glove box is cheaper.


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

MikeS said:


> Have you seen these double din kits, would one fit? Lexus IS 250 2006
> 
> But I guess factory unit in glove box is cheaper.


I have seen that Lexus adapter but it relatively new. I bought my IS250 in December of 2005 (and after 11 years its still running great) and it took at least 8 years for that adapter to come to market. 

My Lexus has a factory amp in the trunk and I have tapped into the line level signal wires just before the amp to give me a clean unprocessed audio signal. The factory deck, which is made by Pioneer, sounds just as good as the P99rs if I don't use any of the P99rs' DSP processing. I had the factory deck running to a JBL MS-8 before I put the P99rs in. I'm looking at the upcoming Zapco HDR processor that is supposed to be coming out in January. If I get that processor I may go back to using the factory head unit. 

I'm starting to look for a new vehicle in the next year or so and BMW and Mercedes are at the top of my list if I choose a sedan. However the electronics are so integrated with the vehicle and the dashes do not have a standard DIN opening, putting an aftermarket head unit like my P99rs is not an option unless I want to do massive modifications. And those modifications would void the warranty and most likely destroy the resale/trade-in value of the car.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

c'mon cmusic, just get the new bimmer/benz with a h/k or burmester in there and enjoy it! It's plenty loud/clear/powerful. But if there's not enough bass, this is the right website and we can help you fit a 12" or 13.5" in there 

edit: and you can even play video on that screen! (useless feature, but works.) That center screen keeps getting bigger and bigger every time they release a new model.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I came across something that may be of interest.

Most150 DSP

Looks like m0bridge has been working with these folks to offer a DSP that runs off the base system. Check out the second photo on the page to the right of the makeshift display screen of the app and you'll see a m0bridge part for this most150 option. From what I have gathered web crawling, the DSP does EQ and time alignment of each driver in the system. No word on GEQ/PEQ or bands. This product may turn vehicles with most150 into just tuning and adding a better sub+amp.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Zippy said:


> Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I came across something that may be of interest.
> 
> Most150 DSP
> 
> Looks like m0bridge has been working with these folks to offer a DSP that runs off the base system. Check out the second photo on the page to the right of the makeshift display screen of the app and you'll see a m0bridge part for this most150 option. From what I have gathered web crawling, the DSP does EQ and time alignment of each driver in the system. No word on GEQ/PEQ or bands. This product may turn vehicles with most150 into just tuning and adding a better sub+amp.


This is good to see.


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## mbradlawrence (Mar 25, 2013)

jimmydee said:


> This is true... but I really like the Audi MMI system, and I consider my mObridge unit to be the _'crown jewel' _of my aftermarket gear.
> 
> With regards to the overall cost of the unit; the mObridge was probably the least expensive single piece of equipment in my build ($650).


I have had an Audi and a BMW, both with my DA3 as the converter/DSP. As far as I know, the only possible draw back is in the radio reproduction. For CD's the limit of quality is only the cd reader. For iPhone 7, you get pure digital (I use offline mode of Tidal) all the way to the DA3. So, no A/D then D/A to conversion, just D/A. Just Marvelous!!!!! This was a WAY better solution that a JL fix into any DSP as that solution includes at least one more conversion AND is limited by the quality of the head unit signal. Im already looking at my next car (about 1 year out) and hopefully BMW will still be on old most system or Mobridge gets some $. 

Im not sure I understand how but I have even seen one of these used in a non-B/O audi (pre-15). I think they tapped the nav signal which also has all of the audio in it. Im too lazy to look for that thread.

Julian is really a nice guy who has good products. The market just keeps conspiring against him.


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## YellowC4S (Nov 25, 2008)

Just want something for a MKVII Golf R


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## NAV-TV (Dec 3, 2017)

For those of you interested, NAV-TV has recently released MOST 150 preamplifiers for Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW and Bentley. 

ZEN-V is for Audi, Porsche, VW and Bentley 
https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT860/zen-v.html

12 channel analog output
Variable TOSlink output that works simultaneously with the analog
Supports 5.1 and 7.1

Non amplified systems will either require a ZEN-V programming tool (sold separately) or, we have provided steap by step instructions on how to code these VAG cars with a VAG-COM free. https://navtv.com/media/products_file/2018/04/05/MOST150_VAG-COM_Programming_Instructions.pdf

ZEN-M is for Mercedes Benz
https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT871/zen-m.html

12 channel analog output
Variable TOSlink output that works simultaneously with the analog
Supports 5.1 and 7.1

Non amplified systems will either require a ZEN-M programming tool (sold separately). Unfortunately there is no low cost programming available for MB. https://navtv.com/media/products_file/2018/04/23/ZEN-M-PRG_Programming_Instructions_2.pdf

Both new MOST 150 ZEN products contain the same processing power as in our competition proven M650-GM.Should you have any questions, NAV-TV may be reached at (866) 477-3336 (toll free USA and Canada), +1-561-955-9770 (international) or [email protected].


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## The Tube Doctor (Nov 24, 2009)

Just ordered one in for a system in a new Porsche Panamera. 
It looks promising. 
I'll try to post an update when the system is completed near the end of June.


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## NAV-TV (Dec 3, 2017)

The Tube Doctor said:


> Just ordered one in for a system in a new Porsche Panamera.
> It looks promising.
> I'll try to post an update when the system is completed near the end of June.


Tube Doctor, Where did you get it from ?


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> it really is.. "oh no i need to spend 600 dollars (or so) on a very niche product to perfectly integrate an expensive aftermarket system in to my 70 thousand dollar plus porsche?! this is an outrage!"


I know this is an old thread but even the run of the mill entry level $40K Audis etc are using the MOST system.


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## The Tube Doctor (Nov 24, 2009)

NAV-TV said:


> Tube Doctor, Where did you get it from ?


I'm in HK, & I ordered it from Vehicle Integration Products in the UK. 
They've been good people to deal with & the time difference means I don't have to sit up until 3 A.M. to make a phone call to the USA.


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## OlyS6 (Jan 12, 2017)

All, check out navtv.com They now have amazing digital interfaces for cars with Most 150systems. I recently installed a zen-v box in my 2016 Audi S6, and the quality is just outstanding, as has been the support. They are quite expensive at $1299.

Current build: Audi MMI - navtv zen-v with optical digital out to my DSP, (Audiocontrol DM8-10), with JLHD900/5 driving Focal KX3 up front and a JL 10W3 subwoofer, as well as a JLHD600/4 driving Focal KX2 woofers in the rear doors.


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## NAV-TV (Dec 3, 2017)

The Tube Doctor said:


> I'm in HK, & I ordered it from Vehicle Integration Products in the UK.
> They've been good people to deal with & the time difference means I don't have to sit up until 3 A.M. to make a phone call to the USA.


excellent ! Please post your feedback when the install is complete !


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## NAV-TV (Dec 3, 2017)

OlyS6 said:


> All, check out navtv.com They now have amazing digital interfaces for cars with Most 150systems. I recently installed a zen-v box in my 2016 Audi S6, and the quality is just outstanding, as has been the support. They are quite expensive at $1299.
> 
> Current build: Audi MMI - navtv zen-v with optical digital out to my DSP, (Audiocontrol DM8-10), with JLHD900/5 driving Focal KX3 up front and a JL 10W3 subwoofer, as well as a JLHD600/4 driving Focal KX2 woofers in the rear doors.


Thank you !!!


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## The Tube Doctor (Nov 24, 2009)

So, the 2018 Porsche Panamera Turbo has been completed. 
Integration with the Zen-V was absolutely trouble-free. 
Sound quality is superb. 

System is using Hybrid Audio Technologies Legatia SE front and rear. 
3-way in the front doors (L6SE, L3SE, L1v2) 2-way in the rear doors (L6 Carbon, L1V2).
Single sub under the rear cargo cover, where the OEM bose used to reside. (C8SW)
Amps are Mosconi D2 80.6 DSP for the top end, with a mono-bridged Mosconi D2 150.2 on the sub. MOS-BTS for streaming directly into the amps, RC Mini for sub-level & preset selection. 
Amps are located in the vast cavity that sits just behind the rear power distribution. 

Sadly, as is the case with the majority of my work here, the owner of this car is highly protective of her anonymity. I've taken hundreds of photos of the system, but am not at liberty to share them. 

The main point of this post is to heap accolades upon the Zen-V. Plug and play simplicity. Zero noise problems. Complete retention of all those entertaining sounds produced by the Porsche parking assist system. The car and the control center work exactly as they did before the bose amp was removed. Such a joy, not having to wrestle multiple analog signal cables into the amp/processor. Eerily low noise floor. 

The Zen-V is not inexpensive, but given the ease with which it installs, and the overall quality of the sound it pipes through, it's well worth the price of admission. 
Owner of the car has already committed to 4 more systems for her other cars, based on the results achieved in the Porsche. 

Rex mortuus est, vivat Rex.


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## NAV-TV (Dec 3, 2017)

The Tube Doctor said:


> So, the 2018 Porsche Panamera Turbo has been completed.
> Integration with the Zen-V was absolutely trouble-free.
> Sound quality is superb.
> 
> ...



Thank you for a Great review !


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## OlyS6 (Jan 12, 2017)

The Tube Doctor said:


> So, the 2018 Porsche Panamera Turbo has been completed.
> Integration with the Zen-V was absolutely trouble-free.
> Sound quality is superb.
> 
> ...


I fully agree that the zen-v is an outstanding product. I waited for a full year to be able to get something like this, and was required to hang on to my OEM amp and hack into each of the high output speaker wires and feed those into my DSP. Now I have a single optical out going to my DSP, with a single clean stereo digital signal copied to all of my DSP channels. I still also have all the functionality of my OEM Audi headunit as well. Like Tube doctor said, worth the price of admission!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

got a Zen in my merc, was somewhat braced for some drawbacks but it's been flawless so far


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