# Has anyone worked with this amplifier before? Is it real? (4ch with DSP)



## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Has anyone worked with this amplifier before? Is it real? Does it do what it claims? What's the catch?
The DSP included features on this amplifier, combined with it's price, seem like a great deal.

Any input would be appreciated. Amplifier - - Power Acoustick "RZ4-2000DSPB"

It advertises having these features integrated into a 4ch amplifier:

6dB - 48dB crossover slopes on ea ch.
20Hz-20kHz freq rang for crossovers
HPF,LPF,BPF for ea ch.
10 band eq on ea ch.
Time delay on each ch. in 0.5mS steps, up to 20mS
Phase adjustability on ea ch.
Bluethooth control of DSP features.










RZ4-2000DSPB | PowerAcoustik


2000W 4-Channel Amplifier with Built-in DSP Max Power (watts) 2,000 RMS @ 4Ω Bridged, 14.4V 2 x 500 RMS Power 2Ω, 14.4V 4 x 250 RMS Power 4Ω, 14.4V 4 x 190




poweracoustik.com


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Wouldn't touch their regular amps with a ten foot pole. I cant even imagine what kind of disaster their dsp amps are

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I haven't looked inside a Power Acoustic amp in 10 years. It was pure crap back then. I assume it hasn't changed much now. It's just a name these days. Ownership has probably changed hands a dozen times. Their generic Chinese supplier has probably changed just as many times. As SkiZer said, not with a 10 ft. pole. It's like shopping for car audio gear at a flea market.

Ge0


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

hahaha, ok thanks. i personally don't have any experience with them. I figured I could reach out to the experts here and get your feedback's.

I think the amplifier hardware part maybe might perform okay maybe...., but not sure on the DSP software part and user interface software part....? I say the hardware maybe okay because of some reviews/tests I have seen on Power Acoustic amplifiers from "_Williston Audio Labs_" and "_Budget Gem or Budget Bust_" on youtube. the amps generally seem to turn on and work.

But, that's my only frame of reference. Your experienced views are appreciated.




SkizeR said:


> Wouldn't touch their regular amps with a ten foot pole. I cant even imagine what kind of disaster their dsp amps are
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback also.

Here's a some pictures of similar 4ch amp from power acoustik. i grabbed these screen shots from a youtube video from from "_Williston Audio Labs_ "


















































Ge0 said:


> I haven't looked inside a Power Acoustic amp in 10 years. It was pure crap back then. I assume it hasn't changed much now. It's just a name these days. Ownership has probably changed hands a dozen times. Their generic Chinese supplier has probably changed just as many times. As SkiZer said, not with a 10 ft. pole. It's like shopping for car audio gear at a flea market.
> 
> Ge0


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## RatesTrader (Nov 1, 2019)

SkizeR said:


> Wouldn't touch their regular amps with a ten foot pole. I cant even imagine what kind of disaster their dsp amps are
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I actually could not have come up with a better answer than this. ^^^^


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

hahaha, o.k. another nail in the coffin.

have you guys actually used them and they broke on you or just general industry knowledge that the company's products are not that great?

i am really checking in to see if anyone has used the specific amplifier with the DSP onboard (Power Acoustick "RZ4-2000DSPB" mentioned above). but i am also interested in general experience with products from this company. so all feedback is appreciated.




RatesTrader said:


> I actually could not have come up with a better answer than this. ^^^^


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

JohnnyOhh said:


> hahaha, ok thanks. i personally don't have any experience with them. I figured I could reach out to the experts here and get your feedback's.
> 
> I think the amplifier hardware part maybe might perform okay maybe...., but not sure on the DSP software part and user interface software part....? I say the hardware maybe okay because of some reviews/tests I have seen on Power Acoustic amplifiers from "_Williston Audio Labs_" and "_Budget Gem or Budget Bust_" on youtube. the amps generally seem to turn on and work.
> 
> But, that's my only frame of reference. Your experienced views are appreciated.


While I do appreciate some of Willistons opinions. He is only checking to see if the amp can produce its advertised ratings. He doesn't go too far into quality of the piece. I've never seen him address quality of a DSP.

That's my frame of reference. If you want to be a pioneer and chart the unknown that would be great. But, you would be doing this on your own dime. I still remain skeptical...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have experience with their products burning up in peoples cars. Folks would send their amps for me to fix. Not much you can do with a crispy circuit board. But then, that was ten years ago. Your mileage may vary with a newer generation of product. For me, its worth an extra $50 to $100 to buy a well known brand which has a decent warranty to back it and is known for quality performance. But, that's just me...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

JohnnyOhh said:


> Thanks for the feedback also.
> 
> Here's a some pictures of similar 4ch amp from power acoustik. i grabbed these screen shots from a youtube video from from "_Williston Audio Labs_ "
> 
> ...



While nothing "red alert" is obvious from these photos here is what I see.
1.) I see a lot of un-activated solder flux residue on the circuit boards. If this amp will ever see high temp and high humidity situations it will be a disaster. The solder flux will turn into a corrosive and cause short circuiting issues.

2.) The generic capacitors on the power supply primary are rated for 105C. This is good. However, the generic capacitor bank of the power supply secondary is only rated to 85C. This is not good.

3.) The main power supply transformer has a little bit of silicon underneath it to help secure it. But, no silicon on any of the capacitors or the output filter inductors. The inductors may whine ans squeal.

4.) I see only a few very small semiconductors mounted on the board. If it does have a DSP it ain't powerful enough to do much. Here is a good point of reference.









This photo is from a middle of the line Bose OEM amp I dissected. The DSP inside this thing is over 5 years old but is capable of doing basic filtering and EQ tasks. The chips I see inside the PA amp are a fraction of this size / pin count.

If I can say one thing ggod about this PA design, at least there is not a rat nest of wires connecting this and that circuitry inside like I have seen in their earlier amps.

Ge0


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

@Ge0 Thanks for your comments. It sounds like you have a lot of knowledge and experience.

I 100% agree with your thoughts on Mr. Williston. Although, I do figure his testing does give some validity to a product's capabilities and design robustness. As he does beat up the amplifiers during his testing, albeit for a short amount of time. And I agree he doesn't really test frequency response, crossovers, etc. But it is all we got these days..... man I wish CAE mag still existed 😢 

Your past experience repairing PA amplifiers is a super good frame of reference for sure. I'll def keep that in mind. The pictures I attached are not from the amplifier with the DSP I was originally asking about, those pictures are from a similar amp from PA with no DSP. I think that IC is probably a switching power supply controller not a DSP. Sorry if I added confusion there. I couldn't find any test info or reviews on the new amplifier with the DSP. So I just grabbed those pictures to show you guys the probable build quality would be like. It looks decent to me, generally speaking.

Anybody else out there? Anybody else use this Power Acoustik amp with built in DSP (RZ4-2000DSPB)? Does the DSP do it's thing? Or is it a crock? Is the amp legit?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Power Acoustik is still a big flea market amp. We have one locally and they still have about 3 car audio booths there. All sell PA and have a lot of buyers. I dont know if I saw a price point listed. It would have to be pretty cheap for me to try. Like under the Dayton audio dsp and cheap class d pricepoint. I see some decent class d amps for sale under 200 bucks and can find the dayton for 150 sometimes less. Those combos work and I just dont know how good the PA dsp actually is? This may be one that you just have to buy and test and report the results.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for the thoughts. I might be in that boat, exactly. This specific amp with DSP is newer, their website says new for 2020. Maybe it's also too new for a lot of experiences to exist yet.

SE is selling this PA 4ch amp + DSP for $170 currently. So it seems like it is in that pricepoint you referenced.

I figure there could be some people using them with direct experience, but maybe not too many on diymobileaudio.

Very generally speaking..... not specific to PA..... I have caught wind of people having issues with software and hardware on DSPs, where DSPs loose their settings or the DSP introduces noise into the audio system. So I am generally cautious when it comes to DSPs. Also, I think that the software interfaces to control the DSPs are clunky and not really nice to use. Just kind of a pain, they get the job done, though. Maybe some of these DSP devices are not very mature yet, they might need more development and testing time.

So anyways, that's why i was seeking any feedback if anyone has used the PA stuff yet. I'll keep checking back in here, to see if anyone posts.

My personal situation is that I have ~$200 credit at SE.... and the amp I originally purchased is out of stock, so SE is trying to get me to purchase an alternative amp. This PA looked like it had nice features. So I figured I would see if anyone uses.



Jroo said:


> Power Acoustik is still a big flea market amp. We have one locally and they still have about 3 car audio booths there. All sell PA and have a lot of buyers. I dont know if I saw a price point listed. It would have to be pretty cheap for me to try. Like under the Dayton audio dsp and cheap class d pricepoint. I see some decent class d amps for sale under 200 bucks and can find the dayton for 150 sometimes less. Those combos work and I just dont know how good the PA dsp actually is? This may be one that you just have to buy and test and report the results.


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## Petererc (Dec 28, 2016)

PPI ION, Soundstream PN, and Power Acoustic Razor use the same boards. Not sure what other amps have the built in dsp, but I gots a feeling it aint just Power Acoustic.
Some say the PPI and SS are good amps, i bought an PPI I1000.4. It sounds ok on midbass and mids. Got it bridged now to two ten inch subs independently. Gets hot causes a ruckus and hasn’t burned up. Yet!


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Cool and interesting. Thanks for posting. I am guessing that the PA RZ4-2000D and also the newer DSP version amp are maybe similar to PPI Ion i520.4, maybe even i320.4.... There is a i520.4 version with Bluetooth on it. No DSP though. It might be similar. Thanks for the info, I see the likeness of the PCBs between the brands. They are all Epsilon brands, so that makes sense. Good to know your PPI I1000.4 is a solid performer. Appreciate the info.

I personally have a set of the PPI Phantom P900.4 amplifiers in my car, and they have been solid. I really like the built-in crossovers flexibility. That's what attracted me to the Phantom amps in the first place. Similar to this PA amp.



Petererc said:


> PPI ION, Soundstream PN, and Power Acoustic Razor use the same boards. Not sure what other amps have the built in dsp, but I gots a feeling it aint just Power Acoustic.
> Some say the PPI and SS are good amps, i bought an PPI I1000.4. It sounds ok on midbass and mids. Got it bridged now to two ten inch subs independently. Gets hot causes a ruckus and hasn’t burned up. Yet!


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

This is the same as the older razor models with a half ass crap DSP added to it, please don’t waste your money on that. If you want cheap gear get like a pioneer amp and a minidsp or Dayton dsp. Or I’ve personally had good luck with the Skar class A/B amplifiers. But don’t buy power akoustik. It’s a bad unreliable brand. I’ve seen other videos where they did not meet their rated power and just because it puts out rated power does not mean it’s clean good sounding power.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

No love for PA. Rough go at it for Epsilon brand. The trend continues. I'm starting to loose hope that anyone has used this amplifier or has any experience with its DSP. Eh well, might just be that way. 🤨

The unknown of this amplifier kind of makes me want to try this thing out, just too see if it's a gem in rough.... hehe. But also makes me want to steer away at the same time. Still holding out hope for a user of the RZ4-2000DSPB to pop up maybe. 🥺

@lankfordcodi I have to call you out a little bit, ...because of your comment directly...., what classifies this device as having a "half ass crap DSP"? What does that even mean? Do you know what DSP hardware or software is used in this product? Is it really a low quality DSP? I might be I dunno,..... but you know? If you do know, please share some details, very interested in fact.




lankfordcodi said:


> This is the same as the older razor models with a half ass crap DSP added to it, please don’t waste your money on that. If you want cheap gear get like a pioneer amp and a minidsp or Dayton dsp. Or I’ve personally had good luck with the Skar class A/B amplifiers. But don’t buy power akoustik. It’s a bad unreliable brand. I’ve seen other videos where they did not meet their rated power and just because it puts out rated power does not mean it’s clean good sounding power.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JohnnyOhh said:


> @lankfordcodi I have to call you out a little bit, ...because of your comment directly...., what classifies this device as having a "half ass crap DSP"? What does that even mean? Do you know what DSP hardware or software is used in this product? Is it really a low quality DSP? I might be I dunno,..... but you know? If you do know, please share some details, very interested in fact.


i would normally agree with you, but its power acoustic. Their business plan is to sell the cheapest **** in mass volume. There is zero reason to beleive that anything they have is of even halfway decent quality, let alone their DSP's


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## lankfordcodi (Apr 28, 2020)

JohnnyOhh said:


> No love for PA. Rough go at it for Epsilon brand. The trend continues. I'm starting to loose hope that anyone has used this amplifier or has any experience with its DSP. Eh well, might just be that way. 🤨
> 
> The unknown of this amplifier kind of makes me want to try this thing out, just too see if it's a gem in rough.... hehe. But also makes me want to steer away at the same time. Still holding out hope for a user of the RZ4-2000DSPB to pop up maybe. 🥺
> 
> @lankfordcodi I have to call you out a little bit, ...because of your comment directly...., what classifies this device as having a "half ass crap DSP"? What does that even mean? Do you know what DSP hardware or software is used in this product? Is it really a low quality DSP? I might be I dunno,..... but you know? If you do know, please share some details, very interested in fact.




Skizer is right, I'm giving them too much credit. But seriously, I was looking at Power akoustik when I was building a budget setup. There are so many red flags you are kidding yourself if you think youre going to get a DSP for that cheap. There are a few amps like this with "DSP"s in them. They are just cheap electronic crossovers like this, added in. Read the reviews for this dual and tell me if you would buy it. 









Dual DSEQ505BT Smart Equalizer


Control tone and balance via your Bluetooth® connected smartphone




www.crutchfield.com













Axxera BEQ25BT Smart EQ


Control tone and balance via your Bluetooth® connected smartphone




www.crutchfield.com






Its NOT a real dsp, To get an amplifier with an actual DSP, not just a electronic crossover, the amp will be about $1000 with a few exceptions around $600

Dont be an idiot, we are trying to help you out. If you want the cheapest 4 channel dsp/amp combo you can get i will spell it out for you here...










Pioneer GM-D8704 1,200W Class FD 4-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Pioneer GM-D8704 1,200W Class FD 4-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com













miniDSP 2x4 Programmable Digital Signal Processor DSP FedEx 2nd Day Express 642125616911 | eBay


The miniDSP 2x4 includes miniDSP’s renowned application software for powerful and easy programming. For information on available application software plug-ins, check the miniDSP products 2x4 page. miniDSP 2x4 Digital Signal Processor (DSP).



www.ebay.com


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

It's a pity that this piece of gear appears to be more or less junk - if it merely met the level of a decent, so-so amp/DSP combo it would be (helped by substantially simplified wiring) a no-brainer for budget systems at this price, even with the obviously overblown wattage claims. I have a couple friends I could probably talk into going active if this was the ease and price of admission. If it seems too good to be true....


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

I don't think anyone provided any info that this amplifier is junk....yet.

This could be a diamond in the ruff! It could even be so-so/okay...

I think based on this thread there are people that do not like the brand/company though, and some of their other products. That's for sure! But I do not believe anyone has worked with this specific amplifier yet. So yet to be determined if it is good/bad.



hella356 said:


> It's a pity that this piece of gear appears to be more or less junk - if it merely met the level of a decent, so-so amp/DSP combo it would be (helped by substantially simplified wiring) a no-brainer for budget systems at this price, even with the obviously overblown wattage claims. I have a couple friends I could probably talk into going active if this was the ease and price of admission. If it seems too good to be true....


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## Djkeys (Jan 21, 2021)

I do demo with 4× of the power acustic razer [email protected] ohm in 90degree weather no fans other than trucks ac THEAS are dependable amps but if you need an amp and you have 0 experience with amps yea you might want to look els wear don't think THEAS hold up well when they are not used properly..1.gain all the way up2.bas boost all the way up 3.head unit volume full tilt.all rookie mistakes.!!!!!


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Have you worked with any of their amplifiers with the DSP circuits/software added to them? If you did, how did that all work/go? I was originally trying to see if anyone has touched those features of their newer amps. To see if they are easy to use or buggy/do not work. That type of thing. The amps with DSP are supposed to have software configurable filters, eq, etc.



Djkeys said:


> I do demo with 4× of the power acustic razer [email protected] ohm in 90degree weather no fans other than trucks ac THEAS are dependable amps but if you need an amp and you have 0 experience with amps yea you might want to look els wear don't think THEAS hold up well when they are not used properly..1.gain all the way up2.bas boost all the way up 3.head unit volume full tilt.all rookie mistakes.!!!!!


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> Wouldn't touch their regular amps with a ten foot pole. I cant even imagine what kind of disaster their dsp amps are
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



I run a pair of them, they're the same as the PPI Ion, Soundstream Atom, etc. Certainly not Bragg able high end stuff, but they work, sound as good as any other Amp, are reliable and are tiny. 

If I was selling expensive amps, I'd say they sucked too... But they're really not bad for the price.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

hella356 said:


> It's a pity that this piece of gear appears to be more or less junk - if it merely met the level of a decent, so-so amp/DSP combo it would be (helped by substantially simplified wiring) a no-brainer for budget systems at this price, even with the obviously overblown wattage claims. I have a couple friends I could probably talk into going active if this was the ease and price of admission. If it seems too good to be true....


It's only junk if you're trying to make margin on higher end stuff. 

I've had the 4 channel installed in my c4 because it was cheap for like 7 years. This was the pre-DSP version. It's definitely not as fancy as more expensive stuff, you're not gonna get a bullet frame or anything like that, but they work, they do put out decent power (not at all what they rate them for, but you can see what the ION does to know what they really do). 

They're not top of the line, but they're also a fantastic value.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Oh that's great. Have you gotten into the the amps WITH the DSP? If yes, does it work well? You use Bluetooth to control all that? Does it work nice? I was very curious on how that all performed. It had boasted some pretty nice and flexible specs on crossovers and eq. capabilities built in to them. That is what attracted me to these initially.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

JohnnyOhh said:


> Oh that's great. Have you gotten into the the amps WITH the DSP? If yes, does it work well? You use Bluetooth to control all that? Does it work nice? I was very curious on how that all performed. It had boasted some pretty nice and flexible specs on crossovers and eq. capabilities built in to them. That is what attracted me to these initially.


Havent used the DSP versions. Saw a few videos of them, it looks simple enough. I would have no issue using them if I was in the market for a low price DSP Amp. 

People don't seem to understand how little cost DSP actually is tonmanufavturers. Especially if you already have a digital input coming in to the unit. It's literally some really basic code, probably available freely in the open source world. The UI development is likely the most expensive part, and even that isn't that expensive. When you're paying hundreds of dollars for a DSP, you're paying massive amounts of margin if you're not getting some sort of automated tuning capabilities out of it.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Ok, thanks, good feedback. What you are saying makes sense. SW is never perfect. I can imagine this would be the case with many manufacturers, especially in the car audio world. I can recall seeing few threads re: UI issues on some of expensive standalone DSP units. So it wouldn't surprise me if this thing had some issues. That's actually what I was looking for real world feedback on these amps  Anyways, I digress, thansk for the positive feedback there. Maybe I'll end up getting one for the wife's car to play with it.


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## Destarah (Feb 24, 2019)

I just read through this entire thread and can't shake the feeling that JohnnyOhh is simply waiting for people to give non-negative feedback.
Out of 8 different people that have responded, only 2 of them didn't straight out say to steer clear. No one has acutally used the new DSP version that is being discussed, and for the most part that is because they have no expectation that Power Acoustik sells anything worth buying.
If you are indeed going to give one of these a try, I would suggest NOT putting in your wife's vehicle ... I wasn't at your wedding, but I am guessing your vows included something to the effect of "Love and cherish".
For what it's worth, I might consider using one of these amps if it were given to me and I would set up the system to operate at about 10% of the rated output but no way would I put it in my wife's car, she deserves better from me.
Also, I went on a search for the rating of the fuse(s) and could not find it. Theoretical maximum power output can be calculated knowing the fuse rating, and I would guess it's a whole lot lower than 2000W. 2000W out would equate to 140A @ 14.4V input (and that is assuming no losses which is of course impossible), and yet this amp only has 8-gauge power and ground terminals ... that's not going to work out no matter what math you use.
Spend your money how you like, but I value honesty so I tend to stay away from companies that use such blatantly false advertising 🏃‍♂️


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Lol, thanks for reading. I appreciate your comments and time, really do. The wedding/vows/wife comments were great. Made me laugh.

I'm not looking for someone to give positive feedback on these amps (although that would be cool news to hear),.... I'm just keeping an ear out to see if anyone has actually used them (this one amp in particular, RZ4-2000DSPB). I actually gave up on this idea months back,..... but a few people have responded recently, so I am just chiming in, chatting with people. Previous to that, no one had their hands on the DSP amps yet, or so it sounded like. To me, i have not seen anyone who has used these yet.

I am mostly looking to hear about anyone's experience with the DSP and the Bluetooth connectivity functions/circuity/audio capabilities. How do these parts of these newer products work? You know, that type of thing. Does the wireless connectivity glitch out and not work? Or is it okay? Do the filters seem like they really work as advertised? Do the EQs really work? I think I have tried to state that pretty clearly before, maybe my communication skills are not the best online.

I do agree and expect the power ratings to be lower than advertised. Further, I agree its pretty lame for a company to advertise like that. But man,.... at $169 for a 4ch amp + this DSP, it's almost unbelievable to be possible, relative to other products in the market that I have heard of anyways. I am not super worried about the power output, I would personally be using these to power component speakers and using high-pass filters.

Based on the pictures from power acoustik website, this 4ch amp would have a 40A fuse in it (RZ4-2000DSPB).

The way I looked at the responses in the past,..... there most definitely have been few people that don't like the brand, no doubt on that, but also few people that seemed curious and would try it and open to the idea of this thing existing, and a few people that use and like the brand, so I dunno, seems divided. Further, similar amps from this brand have tested okay on amp review youtube channels, that I had mentioned previously. Maybe I'll end up getting one and let you guys know how it is. 





Destarah said:


> I just read through this entire thread and can't shake the feeling that JohnnyOhh is simply waiting for people to give non-negative feedback.
> Out of 8 different people that have responded, only 2 of them didn't straight out say to steer clear. No one has acutally used the new DSP version that is being discussed, and for the most part that is because they have no expectation that Power Acoustik sells anything worth buying.
> If you are indeed going to give one of these a try, I would suggest NOT putting in your wife's vehicle ... I wasn't at your wedding, but I am guessing your vows included something to the effect of "Love and cherish".
> For what it's worth, I might consider using one of these amps if it were given to me and I would set up the system to operate at about 10% of the rated output but no way would I put it in my wife's car, she deserves better from me.
> ...


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## blammo585 (Feb 1, 2020)

Destarah said:


> I just read through this entire thread and can't shake the feeling that JohnnyOhh is simply waiting for people to give non-negative feedback.
> Out of 8 different people that have responded, only 2 of them didn't straight out say to steer clear. No one has acutally used the new DSP version that is being discussed, and for the most part that is because they have no expectation that Power Acoustik sells anything worth buying.
> If you are indeed going to give one of these a try, I would suggest NOT putting in your wife's vehicle ... I wasn't at your wedding, but I am guessing your vows included something to the effect of "Love and cherish".
> For what it's worth, I might consider using one of these amps if it were given to me and I would set up the system to operate at about 10% of the rated output but no way would I put it in my wife's car, she deserves better from me.
> ...


I think I saw an amp dyno done on a Power Acoustik mono amp on YouTube and even though it did not put out close to rated power, it did put out a good amount especially for it's price. However, I know what you are saying, and you have to kind of take a guess on what the amp may put out based on it's rating.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

@FAUEE did you mention you saw some videos of people using the DSP amps? Can you share links if available? I did quick search on youtube could not find. thx.




FAUEE said:


> Havent used the DSP versions. Saw a few videos of them, it looks simple enough. I would have no issue using them if I was in the market for a low price DSP Amp.
> 
> People don't seem to understand how little cost DSP actually is tonmanufavturers. Especially if you already have a digital input coming in to the unit. It's literally some really basic code, probably available freely in the open source world. The UI development is likely the most expensive part, and even that isn't that expensive. When you're paying hundreds of dollars for a DSP, you're paying massive amounts of margin if you're not getting some sort of automated tuning capabilities out of it.


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## XTRProBoy (Mar 15, 2021)

Hey, bumping a slightly old thread but from only a couple months ago... OP, did you ever end up getting one of these amps to try? Before I begin, I haven't been "into" car audio in many years and never used DIYMA forums nor have posted on any car audio forums in ages, but back in the day I was posting on forums like SoundDomain, Termpro, Car Audio Forum, etc., before DIYMA existed. Back then I used and had experience with all kinds of amps at one time or another--Orion, MTX, Soundstream, Fosgate, Kicker, Infinity, Kenwood, among others. So sorry if I seem like a n00b here with 1 post but rest assured it's not my first rodeo.



JohnnyOhh said:


> Has anyone worked with this amplifier before? Is it real? Does it do what it claims? What's the catch?
> The DSP included features on this amplifier, combined with it's price, seem like a great deal.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated. Amplifier - - Power Acoustick "RZ4-2000DSPB"


I'm sure they are "real", they are for sale at various places. I was looking for reviews on this too but didn't find much either. An intarweb search found me this thread which was basically just a bunch of conjecture and badmouthing of PA lol. 

Thing about PA is they are under the Epsilon umbrella but overrated compared to the others. The amps produced under the PA brand are using the same boards as amps marketed under the PPI and Soundstream brand names. The only thing is, you have to figure out _which,_ because for whatever reason they choose to severely overrate the PA-branded amps--they tend to produce somewhere around 55% of their rated power. Not that the PPI and SS are always accurately rated either, but much more so than the PA counterparts. Now these amps are not the high-end and they are not the greatest out there but they are decent amps and good bang for the buck in many cases.

Amp landscape has changed dramatically over the years. Back in the day I'd never have considered buying a Power Acoustik (remember them from the VU meters lol) but the funny part is of the companies under the Epsilon banner I think this is one that actually _improved_ as a result 🤣

It's pretty reasonable to think the RZ4-2000DSPB and RZ5-2500DSPB are roughly the same as the non-DSP versions (ending in D) only with the addition of the converters & DSP. * From there you'll find that amp is the same board as the SS PN4.520D which has been tested to be a reasonably accurate 100W x 4 into 4Ohms*. So if the amp board on the DSP version is the same/similar you know where you are for actual power (not the nonsensical 190W x 4 rating). That takes care of that much at least.

Then onto the DSP section...


JohnnyOhh said:


> It advertises having these features integrated into a 4ch amplifier:
> 
> 6dB - 48dB crossover slopes on ea ch.
> 20Hz-20kHz freq rang for crossovers
> ...


It's pretty robust in terms of what you can do, I will say that much. *You have choice of the three major alignment types plus 5 different xover slopes on a per channel basis, and you can also set HP and LP independently (and can bandpass) with different slopes and/or alignments on the other crossover on the same channel. *

Then combine the EQ which is again per channel but also has the *ability to adjust the frequency for each band as well as the Q...for each of 10 bands.* Then add in time delay which can be set in ms or distance, and phase control (which is only 0 or 180) and it rounds out a pretty complete DSP package all built into the amp. 

All this is actually a good bit more than you get with those Jensen amps with the DSP built in which are considered "budget gems" as they are rated accurately and have DSP for adjustments. 

Also on the RZ4 (4ch) you also get additional outputs that are run off the DSP as well, so you still get all the adjustments and are free to use whatever amp you want on two more channels. This is _intended_ for the sub output (RZ5 doesn't get these) but you should even be able to run 3-way active like this if you setup the xovers on the "sub" channels for the needed frequencies.

Now what A/D and D/A they are using and how good the signal path/electronics involved are, is another story. But I would hazard a guess that they are more than good enough for most people. PA states the the processor is 56-bit and the A/D is 80dB S/N w/100dB dynamic range and the D/A is 90dB S/N with 108dB dynamic range. It seems the A/D is the weakest part here, along with a signal path that is probably what you'd expect from an amplifier in this price range. It's not going to be perfect but I'm going to bet it's pretty good for what it costs. As someone else mentioned integrating an A/D, D/A, and DSP processing isn't really all that costly these days, it's just all the additional stuff can be...which you're not going to get in a $200 package that is also a 100x4 D-class amp, lol. 

*The software for the DSP is based on SigmaStudio which clues us into the fact this is using an Analog Devices *processor/converters. Which exact chip(s), one would have to open the amp and have a look see. But again let's assume they are decent enough quality. I downloaded the PC software and phone app and everything looks pretty straightforward--you can make dummy adjustments and play with everything without having an amp paired/connected. Keep in mind here that *the Dayton DSP-408 is also using...a 56-bit Analog Devices chip and the software looks to be the same, *just skinned differently. It's true SigmaStudio works on a lot of different Analog Devices models, so I'm not saying it's the exact same DSP but it's in the same SigmaDSP family and uses the same software and will have very similar aspects of operation and performance.

Anyway all that said I bought one of these amps myself. It won't arrive for at least a couple weeks since I'm in Canada (and unfortunately this stuff is unbelievably hard to get here whereas I think in US you can just walk into Walmart and pick one up, along with those great bang-for-buck Duals and Jensens mentioned). So I ordered one from SonicElectronix which due to the border being closed is costing me a good $60 or so more than it would if I could ship it to US. The keys here are I'm trying to put something together for a second car where space is at a steep premium; and I'm also trying to minimise the cost of the whole thing. This seemed to fit the bill.
like you're getting 100Wx4 output, 6ch of DSP/EQ/time alignment, all in a compact package. We'll see how it goes.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Super cool! I'm excited you are getting one. It sounds like you know your stuff re: the DSP functions/features. I am not very well versed in DSP's. I really just know that they digitally process signals, and in the end, tune the audio signals coming out of them ....  Thanks for the information, big time.

I agree with everything you have stated here. Please let me know how this amp works out.

I have not found anyone that has actually used the PA amps WITH the DSP functions yet (just you,..... in the future ). I really strongly considered one of their DSP amps, and still am considering one, but I have NOT purchased one.

Do you know..... does PA actually do any engineering development that you are aware of, for the DSP? Would they develop the user interface software to communicate to the amp/DSP via Bluetooth? Or is that part of the package, also purchased from Analog Devices? If that's all pre-purchased and Analog Devices engineered that/created all of that, I would be pretty comfortable with the parameters/functions. Thanks for that information, btw.

My personal biggest concerns are how well the user interface works for the DSP controls, and how accurate are the DSP specs. You know, because PA doesn't spec the power output of the amps correctly, are the DSP specs correct/accurate?

I would love to get my hands on one and test it out to see how well the thing functions, test out the frequency response, eq, crossovers, etc. I've done some bench testing with my scope in the past, its really fun stuff. I would expect amazing things form this, but like you said, i bet it's plenty good enough for most people.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

I have not heard of the Jensen/Dual DSP amplifiers you mentioned, I'll look into those.

I should have just pulled the trigger and bought one the of the PA amps already, then I could tell you how they are.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

JohnnyOhh said:


> Super cool! I'm excited you are getting one. It sounds like you know your stuff re: the DSP functions/features. I am not very well versed in DSP's. I really just know that they digitally process signals, and in the end, tune the audio signals coming out of them ....  Thanks for the information, big time.
> 
> I agree with everything you have stated here. Please let me know how this amp works out.
> 
> ...





JohnnyOhh said:


> Super cool! I'm excited you are getting one. It sounds like you know your stuff re: the DSP functions/features. I am not very well versed in DSP's. I really just know that they digitally process signals, and in the end, tune the audio signals coming out of them ....  Thanks for the information, big time.
> 
> I agree with everything you have stated here. Please let me know how this amp works out.
> 
> ...





XTRProBoy said:


> Hey, bumping a slightly old thread but from only a couple months ago... OP, did you ever end up getting one of these amps to try? Before I begin, I haven't been "into" car audio in many years and never used DIYMA forums nor have posted on any car audio forums in ages, but back in the day I was posting on forums like SoundDomain, Termpro, Car Audio Forum, etc., before DIYMA existed. Back then I used and had experience with all kinds of amps at one time or another--Orion, MTX, Soundstream, Fosgate, Kicker, Infinity, Kenwood, among others. So sorry if I seem like a n00b here with 1 post but rest assured it's not my first rodeo.
> 
> 
> I'm sure they are "real", they are for sale at various places. I was looking for reviews on this too but didn't find much either. An intarweb search found me this thread which was basically just a bunch of conjecture and badmouthing of PA lol.
> ...


Have you set this up yet?


XTRProBoy said:


> Hey, bumping a slightly old thread but from only a couple months ago... OP, did you ever end up getting one of these amps to try? Before I begin, I haven't been "into" car audio in many years and never used DIYMA forums nor have posted on any car audio forums in ages, but back in the day I was posting on forums like SoundDomain, Termpro, Car Audio Forum, etc., before DIYMA existed. Back then I used and had experience with all kinds of amps at one time or another--Orion, MTX, Soundstream, Fosgate, Kicker, Infinity, Kenwood, among others. So sorry if I seem like a n00b here with 1 post but rest assured it's not my first rodeo.
> 
> 
> I'm sure they are "real", they are for sale at various places. I was looking for reviews on this too but didn't find much either. An intarweb search found me this thread which was basically just a bunch of conjecture and badmouthing of PA lol.
> ...


Have you received & installed yet?


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## aaron81182 (May 14, 2021)

I have purchased two (one was stolen) of these and will be installing it very soon. Will update soon.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Excellent, looking forward to hearing about your results.


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## aaron81182 (May 14, 2021)

Wow, it's decent and impressive. But for a non audiophile. I don't believe audiophile and auto really go together unless your talking portable DACs and headphones. I'll elaborate on everything soon.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

aaron81182 said:


> Wow, it's decent and impressive. But for a non audiophile. I don't believe audiophile and auto really go together unless your talking portable DACs and headphones. I'll elaborate on everything soon.


That's encouraging. I have a friend who wants to do an affordable, meaningful upgrade - this amp looks like it could be the ticket. Looking forward to your findings.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

On pins and needles here..... 🤞🤞 🤓 Thanks.
I wonder if @XTRProBoy ever got the amplifier his set-up going.

I gotta say,... I'm pretty impressed that people find this thread & post albeit being pretty old.
That amp looked nice on paper, hopefully it performs for you guys.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

I have started to look at these. Ill be honest, I typically would have never looked at PA. As other have mentioned, after learning that we believe the board is the same as the PPI Ions. If so, and I think that board is used across a few other lines and seems to be pretty reliable. I went to my local flea market dealer and asked about these. The mention of flea market is not a diss in anyway. This guy happens to be a dealer or at least sells PA near me. I just remembered from the last time I was in there, he had several PA amps for sale in his booth. This guy also typically will wheel and deal especially if you have cash. He doesnt have them and had not heard of them, but was pretty sure he could get them. His normal crowd is not looking at anything DSP related, so its not something he would order normally.

I also looked at the reviews and the negative reviews dont point to any real issues. Nothing negative specifically. I was looking for things like the DSP is limited, or could not connect to the software, amp died, those type of specific issues or call outs. What I saw was things like wanted more power or didnt like the amp. For the most part, reviews speak to a pretty good budget amp that give some DSP power for users not looking to dive 1000 percent in or spend a lot of money. This looks to me like a decent budget amp with DSP along the lines of the entry level Dayton which works for most people.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Nice, this has me optimistic. When @XTRProBoy posted saying the DSP is probably Analog Devices, it was already seeming like this could be an okay product.

I'll be really curious, hopefully a few people get around to posting their experiences with it. It seems like the product would hit in a nice place for the DIY crowd that doesn't want to spend insane amount of money on a system and also want to learn and do things on their own.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

I just checked, looks like Sonic doubled the price of this thing.... whaaa? It was listed for $170 back when I first posted, now they have it listed for $310. Money grab alert.... Those bastages! Other online retailers still have it listed for more reasonable prices.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I watch a lot of amp dynos on YouTube and 99.9% of Epsilon brand amps do not make rated power. Most seem to make about 75% or less of their rated power. This includes PPI and Soundstream. PA has always been a lower amp line than the PPIs while under Epsilon and while the all share the same boards, the PAs probably get lower grade components mounted on those boards.

I am on my tablet and cannot copy a YouTube link for some stupid reason. Anyways PA Razor amp that is rated at 285x4 rms only made 160x4 for example.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Yea agree. But for that price,... the built-in DSP features are what make this amp shine. The fuse on this particular 4-ch is 40A (according to pics online, I don't own one), so I would expect that would equate to ~400W RMS total, so maybe in the 100Wx4 range.... but hey even if it was 75Wx4 with the dsp, it looked nice.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Hopefully the people who have purchased this amp chime in soonly with their findings. I am hesitant to recommend it to my friend who wants to do a budget upgrade, but if it's legit (despite probably having less power output than advertised) it looks like an ideal setup for him.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

There are plenty of other budget amps that put out rated power for very low prices. The dsp does add a bit of value if it is at least as functional as current Pioneer HUs network mode. But at thT poi t I would rather use a Pioneers network mode or go with a Dayton/Mini dsp that is only $200 and say a Rockville amp that is $100 and can do rated power.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

I mean this amp was in the $170 price range for an amp with around 100W RMS x 4 (maybe a little less power) + DSP that does this.... You didn't mention the exact pioneer head unit and Rockville amps that would match these features & their prices but maybe that combo exist for under $200? I'm kind of skeptical though..... that exists?


6dB - 48dB crossover slopes on ea ch.
20Hz-20kHz freq rang for crossovers
HPF,LPF,BPF for ea ch.
10 band eq on ea ch.
Time delay on each ch. in 0.5mS steps, up to 20mS
Phase adjustability on ea ch.
Bluethooth control of DSP features.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

Any updates on this one?


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

I tried the android app, seems easy enough to use


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

nothing on my side, sorry. might still do one of these, but not currently.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these for a friend's low-budget upgrade. Anyone here have any experiences to report?


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Well, I picked up one of these amps for my friend. He's going to have it installed within the next few days, so I should get some level of experience with it soon.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

nice! how much did you guys pay for it? when i first started looking at them, they were at SE $170, i think the price had gone up since that time.


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## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

The first amps I ever had (in 85') were called Coustic.... Not Power Acoustic. Are these the same amps ???


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

JohnnyOhh said:


> nice! how much did you guys pay for it? when i first started looking at them, they were at SE $170, i think the price had gone up since that time.


$189 at woofers etc - it's not far from me, so I picked it up there. Fingers crossed that it works well.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> The first amps I ever had (in 85') were called Coustic.... Not Power Acoustic. Are these the same amps ???


Almost certain it's a different brand. PA is basically rebadged Soundstream, PPI.


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

hella356 said:


> Almost certain it's a different brand. PA is basically rebadged Soundstream, PPI.


was about to say it looks very similar to the SS PN and PPI mini amps. so i would expect a solid 100RMS per channel if its the one im thinking it is inside there.


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## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

hella356 said:


> Almost certain it's a different brand. PA is basically rebadged Soundstream, PPI.


Yea... This was mine...
Google Image Result for https://sgwmscdnimages.azureedge.net/8/2-26-2020/9857212610327tber.JPG 
I just mentioned it, because every time I bring up my Coustic amps, someone says, oh, you mean Power Acoustic ? And I'm like NO.... Coustic... I wasn't 100% sure myself. Been a LONG time since I owned those 🙂


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Jheitt142 said:


> was about to say it looks very similar to the SS PN and PPI mini amps. so i would expect a solid 100RMS per channel if its the one im thinking it is inside there.


I run SS PN amps & am happy with them. I've assumed the same thing - the PA appears to be the same 4x100 amps I have, with DSP added on.


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

hella356 said:


> I run SS PN amps & am happy with them. I've assumed the same thing - the PA appears to be the same 4x100 amps I have, with DSP added on.


exactly. looks just like the PN4.1000


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

i guess this amp remains an enigma for now, maybe soon to be verified as real.
this has potential to be the biggest sleeper in the industry 🤷‍♂️  🤞
(*for the price, **for a set of components)


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

JohnnyOhh said:


> i guess this amp remains an enigma for now, maybe soon to be verified as real.
> this has potential to be the biggest sleeper in the industry 🤷‍♂️  🤞
> (*for the price, **for a set of components)


if its that board, the amp side is solid and reliable. lets just see what the DSP end does!


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

i have faith in the DSP itself,..... if you look back at this post (post #33 on page #2) by this guy/boy..... "XTRProBoy" it seems like he is knowledgeable and he was saying the DSP _could _be related to the Dayton DSP-408 both use 56-bit Analog Devices DSP's. all good stuff on paper, see how well it is implemented, I suppose.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Definitely not expecting high end performance, but optimistic it will yield a nice sounding budget setup. I'm certain it will be a substantial upgrade.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

I tried the app, seems to work well.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

Unless I'm slightly blind, I can't find any dimensions listed for this? I think the ones on Amazon are the carton size...


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Vx220 said:


> Unless I'm slightly blind, I can't find any dimensions listed for this? I think the ones on Amazon are the carton size...


1.625″H x 4.75″W x 11″

Specs


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

I should have a good idea tomorrow whether this amp is the budget DSP bargain I'm hoping it is.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

Thank you, not sure how I missed that! Keep us informed, it will be much appreciated.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Was able to get my hands on it briefly tonight instead of tomorrow morning. Hooked up my Windows 10 laptop and did a basic setup of 2500Hz 24LR crossover between tweeters & woofers. Lowered the tweeter outputs a few dBs by ear. Saved two presets, one with T/A for driver's seat, one without for with a passenger. Hooked up sub amp from RCA out on the main amp, wasn't getting any output, so switched back to sub feed from HU. Not sure why that was happening, but didn't have time to troubleshoot. Will revisit that on Saturday. Initial impression is that it otherwise is working like it should. This is definitely not a Helix, miniDSP, etc. beater, not that I was expecting it to be! The software is basic & a little clunky - definitely some odd Chinese (I assume) to English translations. Played plenty loud & strong. Was able to Bluetooth in from an Android phone & an iPad to switch between presets - his iPhone connected, but couldn't see the presets. I didn't mess with anything else that way, but it appears it can be fully configured via Bluetooth. I would say the jury is still out, but off to a good start. Will have more time with it Saturday to really see.


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Made more progress with it yesterday, but had only about half an hour to work on it. Ran REW and was able to knock down some peaks in the woofers. Tweeters already were quite smooth, so didn't do anything with them other than keeping them a few dB lower than the woofers. The issue with the subs was simply that the output was way lower than the woofers & tweeters, to the point where I initially thought there was no output from the PA. I compensated by lowering the output of the W&T by about 20dB - I was worried that doing so would kill the overall output of the front stage, but this wasn't the case. Actually was helpful to the volume range on the HU. So that was quite clunky, but ultimately worked with plenty of output. The amp has no gain setting on it - I suppose the levels of the 4 channels somewhat act as a gain setting? Saving presets has some oddities - when working under preset 1, for example, when I made some changes to it that I wanted to save, I had to rename the preset. I kept switching back between naming it 1 and 01 in order to get it saved. Doesn't have any effect on functionality, but another small weirdness. It's all sounding quite good considering there are zero sound treatments to the vehicle and very little tuning. Not noisy, good clarity, dynamics, and soundstage. I'm quite pleased with the initial results, and he's very happy.

My tentative verdict (for now) is that it that, some peculiarities aside, it IS a viable dirt-cheap DSP/amp combo. It certainly has its quirks and limitations, and isn't something I personally would use, nor would most people on here. But as an entry-level to the world of tuneable, fully active 2-way rigs on the cheap, with pretty minimal cabling and device installation, I feel that it does the job. Another friend has expressed interest in upgrading, if the PA made sense within his budget, I'd try it again.


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

thanks for the info, sounds pretty good. that's awesome.
did you happen to catch the max output voltage on the amp?
I'm curious (not sure how you guys tuned it, set levels, what your process was, etc.)


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## hella356 (Dec 11, 2016)

Don't know the output voltage.

The stock passive crossovers are 2500Hz/12dB. I went with 2500Hz/24dB LW. 80/24LW for mid/sub. Didn't try any other crossovers.
Did tape measure T/A.
Ran REW, noted a few peaks in woofers. Tweeters didn't have any glaring issues, were a little hotter than mids. Didn't measure subwoofer, as initially it was direct to HU.
Made 4 or 5 EQ adjustments to each woofer, entered in what REW autoEQ spit out. Don't have any screen shots or exactly what EQ settings.
Lowered all 4 powered outputs by about 20dB, don't remember exactly, to blend with sub.
Lowered the tweeter levels a few dB further.

That was the extent of it. I was in a big rush, people waiting on me to go to a concert. To my relief, that small bit of tuning worked to a satisfactory level. I'm sure there's a fair bit of improvement to be had with a more comprehensive tuning effort. Unfortunately, won't see it again until mid December.

Of course, no idea what the reliability will prove to be. Does feel like a bit of a toy compared to a high end DSP, but it's doing its job. I'm more hopeful than I was that this has the makings of a low budget bargain. The five channel looks interesting, probably realistically 50Wx4 + 200W @ 4 Ohms / 300W @ 2 Ohms. Pretty sure that's the cheapest way to DSP + 5 amp channels.


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