# AD Designs, anyone heard or use them?



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

My local shop picked these up the other day as his clientele is asking for a more SQ oriented speaker/brand. This is a relatively new company and he was very impressed with their demo van that was on hand. He bought 2 sets of each series' 6 1/2" comp set and two of their amps. 

He reached out to myself and two others to see if we would be willing to demo a set for a period of time and if we liked them that maybe some sort of store sponsorship could be worked out. I figured I was up to it. After all, my set up leans more to the SQ side of things then the SPL side. I was chosen for a few reasons. 
1) I'm more SQ oriented then SPL
2) He trusts me
3) I have sealed door pods for my mids and that intrigues him, as the other two asked do not.

I'm in thought about these and was wondering if anyone else here has any experience with them. I took some pics for everyone to see what they look like. The 3 series that they have are the:
4000 series, MSRP $1099.00
3000 series, MSRP $749.00- this is the series I have to test
2000 series, MSRP $449.00
Their web site: www.adcaraudio.com

After I'm done with these I'll probably write/post a review of them here in the reviews section and post a link to it here. Initially, I'm very impressed with the quality. I love the tweeter. I hope it sounds as good as it looks with a total mounting depth of only 1/2" deep.


The brochure

















The Box








What's inside
























































A very plain crossover. I'm guessing 6dB LP on the mid, 12dB HP on the tweeter








I love the looks of these tweeters



























Your thoughts, please.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

AD Designs has already been hung, drawn and quartered here on DIYMA

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/158768-ad-designs.html

My question http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ssion/208649-ad-design-whos-running-them.html

I've posted the questions a few weeks ago. My confusion is over Aaron being pushed as an SQ king, where his products ... subs in particular, seem to be marketed for their SPL capabilities with little to no reference to SQ what-so-ever ???

I wish you well with this thread, but I think you're onto a loser on this forum!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

their speakers are typical alibaba carp. erin tested the tweeter and it didnt do so hot. the thing that turned me off from them the most was their rep steve going full blown salesman over social media which made himself and the company look like an ass. and secondly, the fact that their alibaba rebranded speakers cost as much as they do. the speakers you have, you can get yourself for about a tenth what they retail for if you for some reason actually wanted them


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Any proof they are Alibaba or just forum talk?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Any proof they are Alibaba or just forum talk?


you can find the tweeters no problem on alibaba. the mids i have found before but i have had trouble finding them again as there are literally thousands on there. but theres also a few other brand new internet companies that have the same tweeter, same crossover, and similar mid. me and another member went on a hunt to find them on alibaba once. took a while, but it shut that steve guy up pretty good for the moment :laugh:


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

So they look the same or are the same? Pretty sure we have already went down the look the same speciation road before.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

http://medleysmusings.com/tweeters-and-hornsalibaba-28mm-tweeter-with-black-flangtesting/


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

They look cheap and weak to me but I wouldn't say anything else going off speculation

PHD drivers feel very cheap also but they seem to do well. I wouldn't use them personally


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> So they look the same or are the same? Pretty sure we have already went down the look the same speciation road before.


you think a company like ct sounds or ad designs or any of these other crap brands are engineering and tweaking their own tweeters?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> They look cheap and weak to me but I wouldn't say anything else going off speculation
> 
> PHD drivers feel very cheap also but they seem to do well. I wouldn't use them personally


what seems cheap about them? the AF 1.C screams quality


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> you think a company like ct sounds or ad designs or any of these other crap brands are engineering and tweaking their own tweeters?


I won't say they do or do not since I'm not there to see for myself. 
A lot of stuff shares parts, why reinvent the wheel and drive cost up if you don't have to. 

The PHDs I messed with felt like they where going to fall apart in my hands. Not sure the model, it was years ago when they first came state side.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> I won't say they do or do not since I'm not there to see for myself.
> A lot of stuff shares parts, why reinvent the wheel and drive cost up if you don't have to.
> 
> The PHDs I messed with felt like they where going to fall apart in my hands. Not sure the model, it was years ago when they first came state side.


not reinventing the wheel, or sharing parts, theyre just putting their logo on a very cheap tweeter. also, never realized how thin that thing is. is a wonder how it even has an fs of 1140hz or whatever erin measured it at.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

You know as well as I do. If one person took them to finals and beat the only other car in its class they would be a forum boner. 

Erin didn't say anything about it being the same tweeter. So it's just speculation


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> You know as well as I do. If one person took them to finals and beat the only other car in its class they would be a forum boner.
> 
> Erin didn't say anything about it being the same tweeter. So it's just speculation


"I’ve recently been provided three different sets of tweeters for testing by a member of the audio community. Each set of tweeters are from an overseas seller of numerous audio components. Essentially, what many would call a “build house”."


and the finals part, i dont think thats true at all. i didnt see kicker being a forum boner after mark eldridge won with them. or jl c5s which he does with now. what about the genesis tweeters of steve cook? or kevin keens PHD tweeters that you mentioned before? i dont see many people running any of those


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> their speakers are typical alibaba carp. erin tested the tweeter and it didn't do so hot. m


Again, that doesn't necessarily mean their rubbish. A lot of car audio gear is either reheated left-overs, or overpriced drivers from home audio.



DDfusion said:


> Any proof they are Alibaba or just forum talk?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/158768-ad-designs.html

Just because it's 'Forum Talk' doesn't mean it's untrue or unfactual. But there are plenty of so-called manufacturers that claim that they've had drivers made to _their specifications_. What that generally means that little to nothing has been changed other than the fact that they're trying to deny the fact that what they're doing is trying to sell you a driver that they've bought for a few dollars, and they are willing to charge you hundreds if not thousands for the pleasure if saying; it's from Wilson Audio, or Sonus Faber, or PMC, or This brand and that brand. 

As I recall from the AD Designs thread, someone claimed that Aaron claims to have changed or modified the crossover or something. Go to parts-express and see how much it would cost to do that. If one is using high-end state of the art components, a few dollars maybe. If using _'get you by'_ stock components, pennies! Then try to justify the price hike the AD Designs, and others like them, want to charge people!

On that score, that's why i have no real genuine complaint with AD Designs, because there is so much duplicity within the Audio Industry as a whole it would seem, that AD Designs isn't doing anything out of the ordinary, because they're not!!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

oh, DD, here you go. removed phase plug and slapped on a logo. theyre selling it for over 10x the price that theyre getting them at. what a sick joke.

6.5" High Quality Car Component Speaker Hy65ta/ Car Audio Speakers 6.5 - Buy Oem Car Audio Speakers,High End Car Speakers,Small Car Speakers Product on Alibaba.com


CS64 - 4000 Series 6 1/2" Component Set


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

So they are not the same... 
I am no way saying they are good or worth even close to that cost but they are not the same


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> So they are not the same...
> I am no way saying they are good or worth even close to that cost but they are not the same


besides the fact that its a dust cap instead of a phase plug, yeah, theyre the same. dont kid yourself


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

So by saying that you have both pulled apart judging every single part and ran TS on both?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> So by saying that you have both pulled apart judging every single part and ran TS on both?


and your really going to sit there and say that someone whos rebranding alibaba speakers is running and adjusting ts parameters by any meaningful margin? again, dont kid yourself


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

It's pretty ****ing obvious they're the same. To run parameters on some mass marketed Chinese tweets would be a waste of effort and time.

But if you want to spend 300 bucks on some ****ty tweeters go ahead. 

The soft domes I pulled from a set of 10 dollar goodwill bookshelves are better quality and I'd bet money on it.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Don't kid yourself with bad information. There is ZERO proof they are the same. 
Again I am not defending AD, I don't really care what they are.

I am saying NOBODY can say anything since NOBODY really knows anything.

The owner ticked people off and they cry about it.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Don't kid yourself with bad information. There is ZERO proof they are the same.
> Again I am not defending AD, I don't really care what they are.
> 
> I am saying NOBODY can say anything since NOBODY really knows anything.
> ...


your not convincing anyone except yourself lol. i understand the whole "you dont know for sure until you try" or whatever, but at the same time, you gotta be real with yourself. do you TRULY think these companies give a rats ass about ts parameters? they dont list jack **** about their "$999" component set besides what the speakers are made of, and their rms rating. that right there should be a major red flag for any set over 200 dollars


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> and your really going to sit there and say that someone whos rebranding alibaba speakers is running and adjusting ts parameters by any meaningful margin? again, dont kid yourself


That's the claim by Aaron .... so it's claimed

At that price my money would be on more tried and tested speakers. However, many times I've been surprised by 'off the beaten track' audio products. 

CS64 - 4000 Series 6 1/2" Component Set
Retail: $1,099.00
Direct Price: $999.00

...but then, again ... one looks on the Arc Audio site, and realise they use SB Acoustics drivers, and one has to conclude; maybe high-end isn't really that high-end. tried and tested (SB Acoustics drivers) yes, but high end .... er ... no! 

ARC Audio Black Series Speakers. Audiophile designs for serious listeners!Â*| Arc Audio


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm not saying they are not overpriced. Who knows, they might be gods gift to audio.

What I am saying is... They are not the same until proven otherwise. Until that point all you are doing is spreading possible BS. We don't need anymore BS spread in this hobby. 

If somebody wants to buy them more power to them. Its not like people don't buy crap audio everyday already.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

captainscarlett said:


> That's the claim by Aaron .... so it's claimed
> 
> At that price my money would be on more tried and tested speakers. However, many times I've been surprised by 'off the beaten track' audio products.
> 
> ...


I already busted that one. They are not the same at all. If the difference makes up the price difference, up to the user not us.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> We don't need anymore BS spread in this hobby.


like how hertz were designed to sound worse on a soundboard than in a car?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Its not that they are designed to sound worse. A board is not a car is it? Why would you optimize for a board that is nothing like a car? Cheap speakers do this since people are going to shop off a board. 
Don't twist my words if you don't understand what Im getting at.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Its not that they are designed to sound worse. A board is not a car is it? Why would you optimize for a board that is nothing like a car? Cheap speakers do this since people are going to shop off a board.
> Don't twist my words if you don't understand what Im getting at.


no, just no lol


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> I already busted that one. They are not the same at all. If the difference makes up the price difference, up to the user not us.


What did you bust?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...industry-dogma/125363-re-branded-items-2.html


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Just look at the materials. They are not even the same coil.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> no, just no lol


No what? Is a board a car door? No its not, not even close. Hell most boards are lined up in front of you, That's not like a car is it..

Think for a few minutes and get off your horse.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Its not that they are designed to sound worse. A board is not a car is it? Why would you optimize for a board that is nothing like a car? Cheap speakers do this since people are going to shop off a board.





SkizeR said:


> no, just no lol


Much as I hate to agree with DDfusion, I'm not sure that a board in a shop is the same as pointing speakers at your ankles in a car.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Just look at the materials. They are not even the same coil.


Link, photo's, that thing called 'proof'? There seem to be plenty of people that go against your (so far) train of thought.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

OldSchoolAddict said:


> It's pretty ****ing obvious they're the same. To run parameters on some mass marketed Chinese tweets would be a waste of effort and time.
> 
> But if you want to spend 300 bucks on some ****ty tweeters go ahead.
> 
> The soft domes I pulled from a set of 10 dollar goodwill bookshelves are better quality and I'd bet money on it.


+1+1+1+1

I would be asking....How different can it be?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Read the specs. One is aluminum one is copper. If that's is the only difference I don't know, didn't get that far into it. But that says they are not the same.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> What I am saying is... They are not the same until proven otherwise. Until that point all you are doing is spreading possible BS. We don't need anymore BS spread in this hobby.


Bro, I've literally bought the "3000 series" directly from their buildhouse and got told when I ordered them what the differences were. On the 3000 series, the only differences are stickers, push vs. spade terminals, and a different crossover. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...em-ad-designs-3000-series-6-5-components.html

What stands out about these small differences also, is the cost cutting on the AD set. The AD set is downgraded to spade terminals instead of push terminals, and the AD crossover is also watered down. The OEM crossover is a very nice unit with selectable tweeter attenuation levels and a nice aluminum case, not so much with the AD crossover.

So really, the AD sets seem to be watered down from the OEM buildhouse line which only cost me 80 dollars + shipping for a single sample price. You can imagine how much money AD is making on this series with them being watered down and buying in bulk quantities.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> What did you bust?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...industry-dogma/125363-re-branded-items-2.html


he was able to read that one has a copper coil and one has aluminum. not much of a difference. definitely not note worthy to say that they arent the same speaker




DDfusion said:


> No what? Is a board a car door? No its not, not even close. Hell most boards are lined up in front of you, That's not like a car is it..
> 
> Think for a few minutes and get off your horse.


it seems like you think a speaker is designed to play well in a ****ty, and extremely unpredictable environment. if you think thats the case, then your wrong. speakers are designed to play flat in a proper setup. if theyre designing to play well in cars, then they will have to design a new speaker for each car model. i have NEVER seen any company do anything like this.





DDfusion said:


> Read the specs. One is aluminum one is copper. If that's is the only difference I don't know, didn't get that far into it. But that says they are not the same.


different material, totally different speaker 




captainscarlett said:


> Much as I hate to agree with DDfusion, I'm not sure that a board in a shop is the same as pointing speakers at your ankles in a car.


i cant even explain it. its such a simple concept but im having trouble getting it out of my head because you would assume everyone would know this by now that speakers (even car audio speakers) arent meant to play flat in a door. every speaker that is at least somewhat professionally designed, is designed and tested in proper environments. designing the "acoustics" of a speaker to perform better in a car than in a proper environment would be absolutely useless since you would need to design a different speaker for every type of car. no car audio manufacturer does this.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

hurrication said:


> Bro, I've literally bought the "3000 series" directly from their buildhouse and got told when I ordered them what the differences were. On the 3000 series, the only differences are stickers, push vs. spade terminals, and a different crossover.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...em-ad-designs-3000-series-6-5-components.html
> 
> ...


You don't have the Alibaba link do you, I can't find them for love nor money? 

DDfusion .. any comments on above statement?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

You're right Skizer.. You're years of experience are worth more than others that have twice as much.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

captainscarlett said:


> You don't have the Alibaba link do you, I can't find them for love nor money?
> 
> DDfusion .. any comments on above statement?


 Like I said, they might be the same. But until its a hard fact, they are not. 
Until that point its just forum gossip hear say.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> You're right Skizer.. You're years of experience are worth more than others that have twice as much.



Still waiting for proof of where you've busted Arc Audio myth!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> You're right Skizer.. You're years of experience are worth more than others that have twice as much.


this comment goes no where.. being ignorant about a product not being the same because "we just dont truly know" is one thing, but thinking that a good speaker will sound better in car than on a board is just plain foolish. on a board, you have a wide open space with no resonance of door panels, vibration of other pieces, no weird dips in response due to the room being a weird shape and size. you can also mount it in a proper sealed enclosure. how can you possibly say, that a speaker will sound better in any given car, than on a sound board?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Read the damn website. Proof is right in front of you. If you choose to see it is a different subject


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> Still waiting for proof of where you've busted Arc Audio myth!


he didnt bust anything. the only difference between them is one has a copper coil and one has an aluminum. certainly not worthy of a 500 dollar difference and also not enough to say they arent the same speaker


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Like I said, they might be the same. But until its a hard fact, they are not.
> Until that point its just forum gossip hear say.


Oh well, if pictures, people actual experience, and blind facts don't swing it for you..... 

Talking about pictures, people's experience and blind facts, i'm still waiting for you to show me evidence of your busting the Arc Audio myth. But i feel like i'm flogging a dead horse here, so gents, I wish you a good evening.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> this comment goes no where.. being ignorant about a product not being the same because "we just dont truly know" is one thing, but thinking that a good speaker will sound better in car than on a board is just plain foolish. on a board, you have a wide open space with no resonance of door panels, vibration of other pieces, no weird dips in response due to the room being a weird shape and size. you can also mount it in a proper sealed enclosure. how can you possibly say, that a speaker will sound better in any given car, than on a sound board?


Its simple. Is a board set up like a car door? Is the axis the same? Is the room the same size as a typical car? Its the height the same? 
Its not just Hertz, its every high end car driver. Is the cabinet the same size a sealed door?


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> he didnt bust anything. the only difference between them is one has a copper coil and one has an aluminum. certainly not worthy of a 500 dollar difference and also not enough to say they arent the same speaker



I appreciate that, but I was waiting for some thread ... with pictures, or links directly to said sites ... etc. 

Good evening to you both. It's 21:51 here in the UK


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> he didnt bust anything. the only difference between them is one has a copper coil and one has an aluminum. certainly not worthy of a 500 dollar difference and also not enough to say they arent the same speaker


Is that the only difference? And since you seem to be a expert you should know coil materials play a pretty big role.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Its simple. Is a board set up like a car door? Is the axis the same? Is the room the same size as a typical car? Its the height the same?
> Its not just Hertz, its every high end car driver. Is the cabinet the same size a sealed door?


these are the exact reason why they would sound better in a proper environment and not a car.. stop listening to your local salesman


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Is that the only difference? And since you seem to be a expert you should know coil materials play a pretty big role.


itll change the mms a hair, not even note worthy. possibly Le, but again, only a hair. and how it handles heat. im willing to bet you wouldnt be able to pick the two apart


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Ok bud you win. You do you.

I'll keep doing what works using MY own experience. Seems to do well for me

One last thing. Is a car audio drivers proper environment a board or a car? 

I'm sure you will disagree.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Ok bud you win. You do you.
> 
> I'll keep doing what works using MY own experience. Seems to do well for me
> 
> ...


doesnt matter if its a "car audio" speaker or a "home audio" speaker. ANY driver will do better in a proper environment, and theres no changing that. your salesman really does have you by the balls..


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Lol. Keep saying salesman. Sounds like you had a bad experience and that's fine. I've had my own with certain companies. 
All I know is my setup sounds pretty damn good, thanks to my salesman talking me into trying hertz many years ago. Since he let me run them for two weeks no money down, after I didnt like them on the board as much as the C5s I was going for. Which he would have made more money off of. 

I'm actually enjoying it right meow


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> doesnt matter if its a "car audio" speaker or a "home audio" speaker. ANY driver will do better in a proper environment, and theres no changing that. your salesman really does have you by the balls..


this times 1 billion.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

DDfusion said:


> You're right Skizer.. You're years of experience are worth more than others that have twice as much.


your audio supplier got duped, get over it.

Just be happy it wasn't you that plunked down 3k on a set of 20 dollar junk components


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> You don't have the Alibaba link do you, I can't find them for love nor money?
> 
> DDfusion .. any comments on above statement?


6.5" 2-Way best car component Speaker HY65PA(a), View car speakers audio, HYYX Product Details from Guangzhou Huiyin Audio Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Like I said, they might be the same. But until its a hard fact, they are not.
> Until that point its just forum gossip hear say.


Did you not read my post?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hurrication said:


> Did you not read my post?


Doesn't matter if he did or didn't. His mind is made


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> itll change the mms a hair, not even note worthy. possibly Le, but again, only a hair. and how it handles heat. im willing to bet you wouldnt be able to pick the two apart


Mms would change which would change Fs, Qes, Qms and hence Qts. Due to the different resistance per unit length they would probably use a different length of coil in the gap to keep Re relatively close to the same, which would change BL and hence Qes and Qts again. If they changed material they also could have changed winding length so Xmax and BL curve could be different. Le will be different which will change the high frequency response as you noted as well as power handling and thermal behavior differences, which will change the dynamic behavior of the driver in regards to heat and Re's variance with respect to power input. 

I'm not saying AD necessarily improved the design with the change, that they'll perform better than stock with the different coil and certainly not saying the change is worth the price difference. Just pointing out a different coils can be a pretty big deal performance wise and audibly affect the performance, for better or worse. They probably said "make it handle more power" so they went with aluminum instead of copper with little more thought put into it on the part of AD.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

From what I can see on the sb, it's cca coil, and I can't see from my phone, but I remember the black being aluminium coil. If memory is correct there would be pretty much no difference. Either way, I know people who have used both. Both people said no audible diffence

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Also, I'm 99% sure bl doesn't change. Care to chime in hurrication? 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> these are the exact reason why they would sound better in a proper environment and not a car.. stop listening to your local salesman


Some manufacturer's could design the crossover to play flat at some degree off-axis, which means there would be a peak around the crossover region on axis. Likewise tweeter could be designed to allow for a somewhat rising response on the top end so that it smoothes out and plays flat off-axis. Mid designed to play flat and low IB will lack low end in a small sealed enclosure like on a sound board, not to mention if there were no internal damping and a thin cone material reflections could wreak havoc in the midrange. Compared to a speaker that was designed to excel on-axis as opposed to off-axis, maybe more tolerant to enclosures and not designed with IB in mind, thicker cone or the dealer intentionally adds damping to one enclosure but not another....I can see how it would be possible for someone to chose one speaker on a sound board but another actually in a car.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> Also, I'm 99% sure bl doesn't change. Care to chime in hurrication?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


For the same or similar Re *something* would have to change. Aluminum is less conductive so you would need larger diameter windings and more of them for the same Re as copper. Either windings in the gap, length of the windings, or both will in fact change. No way around it.

*and FWIW I wasn't paying attention to thread, thought we were still talking about AD .


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

Copper vs Aluminum

See where it talks about "more energy in the gap" with copper because of the smaller windings allowing for more of the windings in the gap? That's Bl they are talking about, in simplified terms. More windings in the gap = more "L" = higher BL 

They also talks about alum needing to use a longer winding because of the lager diameter wire necessary for the same Re as copper.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

DDfusion said:


> Read the specs. One is aluminum one is copper. If that's is the only difference I don't know, didn't get that far into it. But that says they are not the same.


Its sorta like buying a barrel of apples from the same vendor and saying each apple is not the same...

I don't understand the nit pick about it. if it had different guts all together I'd understand. Maybe using the housing and putting superb innards in it? Not too likely, but?


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

You're waxing poetic about some cheap ass mass made crap. 

Even the "designers" of the speakers didn't put this much thought into this. And why would they?

Whether they cost them 20 cents or 20 thousand to build, someone will buy them, slap their name on them and sell them for a profit.

We aren't discussing morel or etc, were discussing white van speakers with good PR


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Wait wait wait.... did I read that right? AD DESIGNS is asking $749 for the 3000 series set!!!! LOL OK OK OK OK LOLOLOLOL
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. WTF???? OLOLOLLLLLOLL


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT WAIT.......LOLOLOLOLOL


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hot9dog said:


> Wait wait wait.... did I read that right? AD DESIGNS is asking $749 for the 3000 series set!!!! LOL OK OK OK OK LOLOLOLOL
> WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. WTF???? OLOLOLLLLLOLL


this calls for a special video..


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I think DD just picks fights over semantics. I understand he's arguing benefit of the doubt but in this case...I don't see what could conceivably allow the up charge. I'm not a bright man though.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

no matter what way you look at it, this companys products shouldnt be touched with a ten foot pole by anyone. /thread


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> this calls for a special video..


THAT WAS PERFECT!!! I will have to save that video for the next time I go to the tax man. lololol:laugh:


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Also, I'm 99% sure bl doesn't change. Care to chime in hurrication?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


He's right, aluminum has less electrical conductivity than copper.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

hot9dog said:


> Wait wait wait.... did I read that right? AD DESIGNS is asking $749 for the 3000 series set!!!! LOL OK OK OK OK LOLOLOLOL
> WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. WTF???? OLOLOLLLLLOLL


What's funny is that they've raised their prices quite a bit from when they first released them.

Their 3000 series used to be either 300 or 400 dollars (can't remember exactly).


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hurrication said:


> He's right, aluminum has less electrical conductivity than copper.


Interesting. I thought bl was just how much magnetic strength the magnet had.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I800C0LLECT said:


> I think DD just picks fights over semantics. I understand he's arguing benefit of the doubt but in this case...I don't see what could conceivably allow the up charge. I'm not a bright man though.


I'm not trying to pick fights. I'm trying to get people to think. 
A lot of stuff is stated as gospel when it shouldn't be. 
So many people said the SB, NVX, and ARC where the same drivers. They clearly are not. 
Same could easily be said in AD's case. I'm not one to say since there is not enough info out there. 
They may be the exact same, I won't spend my money to find out. I also don't see many people that would spend that much buying these.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Same could easily be said in AD's case. I'm not one to say since there is not enough info out there.
> They may be the exact same, I won't spend my money to find out. I also don't see many people that would spend that much buying these.


What about the people who *did* spend the money, and *did* find out? 

Are you proud of your blinders?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

This is a sellers dream, to get the mass public happy about some gear that can be marked up so much!!!

This is what I was talking about in my thread when I came on to this forum. 
This is the direction of a bunch of screwed up install shops...Scamming the public into thinking something is of quality when its qrap. They will carry the good stuff, but sway the suckers to the garbage like this. 

DDF, tell us you don't carry or sell this stuff...say it ain't so!!!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> I'm not trying to pick fights. I'm trying to get people to think.
> A lot of stuff is stated as gospel when it shouldn't be.
> So many people said the SB, NVX, and ARC where the same drivers. They clearly are not.
> Same could easily be said in AD's case. I'm not one to say since there is not enough info out there.
> They may be the exact same, I won't spend my money to find out. I also don't see many people that would spend that much buying these.


I think they're in agreement that they're similar enough to be leery of those prices. You could purchase 90 for a little more than $1300 or buy one pair for $750? A smart man would buy the case and recoup his purchase and have many many set aside for "just in case"

I'm not sure there's enough changes in the drivers to reconcile the difference in cost. I'd rather purchase the GS series from AudioFrog before ever looking these over. Andy is VERY transparent about these drivers and doesn't go off on tangents talking down every other brand name.

How do they measure? Is their performance matched at another price point? Are they mediocre or the next Silver Flute? Btw...that Silver Flute is only $30 per driver.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> Interesting. I thought bl was just how much magnetic strength the magnet had.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


That's half of the equation 

BL is literally B * L. B is the strength of the magnetic field in the gap, L is the length of wire (often referred to as "number of turns") in the gap. Multiply the two together and you have the motor force, BL.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Don't you guys think the production house that makes one looking product can turn around and say, hey, we make this part for this brand, and we can change XYZ for this brand name...offff-cooooourse!!!! Its in every industry!!!


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

I didn't mean for this to start into a war. I will say that speakers in a stores display WILL NOT sound the same as they will in a car. I'm sure we can all attest to that so I'd like to see the door/store sound debate over. On a side note to that, there was one company (been so long I can't remember who) that took into account the changes that would be present when installed in a vehicle (Rainbow maybe) and made their speakers for that purpose. Granted it was not vehicle specific, but they made sure to note for their dealers that what the customer would hear on a sound board WOULD NOT sound as good as when installed in a vehicle. 

Not sure how they sound yet, but I will report back here when I'm done. It'll still be a few days before I get them installed. 

I did try a search here but found nothing on them. I just wanted that to be known. I'm not just someone to randomly post questions w/o looking first. What I found where just words used, mostly "designs".


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

a/d/s had a switch on their crossovers marked as car or demo for that exact purpose you described above.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

JBL was specific about how many degrees off-axis their Gti speakers would play, I believe it was supposed to be an improvement from 30 degrees to 35 degrees, as a shift to a more off-axis angle would mean that a speaker could be located in factory positions that were less satisfactory compared to when using other brands.

The way they voice the passive crossover is also a big part of how they obtain usable envelope of power response, in the car as opposed to on the sound board.


Most companies tune their driver set up to play from the same axis, on the same plane like a plate speaker. That's going to be their optimum, most direct path through the crossover components.

When you have to plant the tweeter up on the dash and the mid is way down in the doors, you're not going to want a crossover that's been voiced for same plane, same axis.

You're going to want choices.

And that's why the passives that have redundant possibilities, like -3db, 0db, etc. on switches or using little fancy bus bars, are more costly because each time you give an option it takes more components (elements) in the crossover design.

A big part of the research process is making drivers and crossovers cheap but also making them work synergistically together, a company that can cut back on the driver quality a bit but make up for it in the crossover is going to still sound great but the company makes more money.

Now as for the rash of re-branded product that may or may not have been optimized by experts at their job, I would have to say if the product is good and the build house is letting them go much cheaper somewhere ali-babble, I would not want that brand that is being copied, nor the cheap substitute.

because I'm vain and I don't want to know I got a great deal buying the unauthorized run of knock-off products that sound just as good but when push comes to shove, you can't brag about them, you can only get the utilitarian function from them.

Now Alpine putting the wet on Scans, I see that differently because they did make the drivers more able to survive a car environment.

this thread's guilty parties, though...

I mean, it really is a criminal act to make a speaker look like a great product and people are bragging they saved a ton of money to get the same thing.


It's not the same to me!


Anyways, way too many other great products out there to take care of my disposable funds, than to try to police the output of Chinese buildhouse replications.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

A Vette may hang with a Ferrari on a track but it's still a Chevy


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

DDfusion said:


> A Vette may hang with a Ferrari on a track but it's still a Chevy


So what does that say about the Ferarri?


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

The problem is.... that this product is no Ferrari nor is it a Chevy. .. it's a Yugo with a Mitsubishi Eclipse body stapled to it.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

hot9dog said:


> The problem is.... that this product is no Ferrari nor is it a Chevy. .. it's a Yugo with a Mitsubishi Eclipse body stapled to it.


I actually laughed out loud on this.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

smgreen20 said:


> Not sure how they sound yet, but I will report back here when I'm done. It'll still be a few days before I get them installed.


how are you going to have them installed? any processing? any other speakers you have in the same exact install that you can compare to?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

hot9dog said:


> The problem is.... that this product is no Ferrari nor is it a Chevy. .. it's a Yugo with a Mitsubishi Eclipse body stapled to it.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

AD designs demo car...


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

I800C0LLECT said:


>


this reminds me of when I was 12ish and my dad gave me a Corsica to play around with. They have a lot of land/gravel that nobody goes on. He just told me to have fun. There was no way for me to get up to 30 mph and after 15 minutes of driving it would over heat anyway. 

Any who, I remember putting red racing stripes on that thing with red electrical tape. I felt like a badass. Sadly it wasn't nearly as sweet as the lumina you posted. My friend did have a blue one with flames hand painted on it though.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

I don't want it to look like I'm bashing AD Designs, they look they are trying. ... it's no easy task to encroach into a flooded marketplace. They even have PWK on the payroll designing enclosures.... good intentions. If they sold these components at a competitive price... they would have success. Buttttt.... at this price point, it's a joke. Look at the crossover!!! Im the mindset of simple designed passives are the best, but this looks ridiculous. Bring the price down and understand the market, I wish that all the luck... I would want them to be a success story. I don't see it working out for them unfortunately


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

maybe this question should be asked on a group where there are less informed people to see what they think. then we can see if there are actually people buying them


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

I used to have a 93 Lumina Z34, ****ing loved that car

Had the strangest exhaust note.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

haha...I remember the Z34. the guy on my street with it either had a rat tail or mullet? Can't remember. They were so cool


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

I regret selling mine. I'm still searching for another one.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

My next favorite white trash vehicle was the Beretta Z26 or even the Indy model with the high output 4 cylinder. Why am I talking about white trash in an AD Designs thread?  my bad.

My beretta came with kick panel speakers from the factory and it was bamf.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

"High output" 4 cylinder... In a Beretta

Lol the good old days


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

OldSchoolAddict said:


> "High output" 4 cylinder... In a Beretta
> 
> Lol the good old days


:laugh:

I always wanted to put the supercharged V6 3800 in it. I think it used the similar mounts as the 3100 V6. I think the 3 speed auto went out at 216K? All my gf's hated it  I'm not sure I would have replaced my 320is with the AD Designs tho


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

A supercharged 3800 would have been the tits. You'd be buying tires left and right


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Well, I auditioned a pair of the 4000 series. If these are Alibaba specials then I'm blown away at how they sound. They don't sound like they are worth the asking price, I'll give you that. But never the less I was highly impressed with them. I will be putting in mine this week, other things popped up over the weekend.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

smgreen20 said:


> Well, I auditioned a pair of the 4000 series. If these are Alibaba specials then I'm blown away at how they sound. They don't sound like they are worth the asking price, I'll give you that. But never the less I was highly impressed with them. I will be putting in mine this week, other things popped up over the weekend.



*A Grand* for a pair of Alibaba speakers is a bit too much to swallow, but so it is with many other car audio brands, if they're honest about it, which they're not! Far too many good drivers to go spending that kind of money on such a setup. 

As for your AD Designs speakers, If you like them, then run with it. If I'm honest, I'd still like to have a go on the 4000 series subs, after I've had a go on the Acoustic Elegance, and Creative Audio CSS CX12, TC Sounds Epic, Exodus Anarchy, SSA Icon, Stereo Integrity HS24, HS11, Mag V3 12, BM, Prescient Audio TD12 ......


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

After listening to the 3000 series for a week now and numerous adjustments (EQ, Xover point, gain), I do not care for the mid, AT ALL. The 4000 series mid I heard was mounted in a door, open air. The 3000 series mid was mounted in the same location but in a sealed pod. These mids must shine in OA applications because I hated them in my setup. The 4000 series was mounted in a friends truck, exactly as mine, just one year older (1999). I drive a 2000 GMC Sierra Ext cab (3dr) with stepside bed. 

Both of us had 4ch amps powering them. A Memphis M-Class ~2012 model or so, 100x4 (his) and a Clarion APA4200 -1994 model, 50x4 (mine). 

The mids sounded airy, thin, and weak. They did play lower w/o distress then what the manufacturer recommended it be crossed over at. I still like the tweeter, but at that asking price (even for what I could get them for) I'd much rather get a set of the Dynaudio 102's. They do tend to like acoustic, classical music though. A recent call to ?rep/owner? (I can't remember who they said they talked to), they are designing a new xover for the 3000/4000 series. 

For reference, I use the 6.75" Silver Flute mids and Sundown Audio 2.75" FR, no tweeter. I'm glad to have MY stuff back in. I listened to Eagles, Dire Strights, Pink Flyod and lost my mind when I played what I mostly listen to, PANTERA, Killswitch Engage, Chimaira, Eluveitie, 5 finger DP. This set sucked for metal.

My overall conclusion, THEY ARE NOT WORTH THEIR ASKING PRICE, by far. I'd say about half of their asking price is more like it.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

Hey guys, I didn't want to start another thread about AD. They don't seem to be very popular on here. 

My question is, has anyone bought a 2000 or 3000 series 12", got the design and built to Pete's recommendation? 

I'm a long time customer of Pete's, back from the PWK days. I was very pleased with the designs I've gotten from him. The only reason I'm considering buying there product is because of the box design. So is it worth it to buy a AD driver, or should I just stick with what I know and guess at the proper box for it?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

bigguy2010 said:


> So is it worth it to buy a AD driver, or should I just stick with what I know and guess at the proper box for it?


Why would you have to guess? Sure, Pete goes beyond what people typically do in modeling subwoofers (supposedly taking into account actual cabin volume and dimensions, etc.), but it doesn't mean you can't model it yourself or have someone else do it for you and achieve good results.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

rton20s said:


> Why would you have to guess? Sure, Pete goes beyond what people typically do in modeling subwoofers (supposedly taking into account actual cabin volume and dimensions, etc.), but it doesn't mean you can't model it yourself or have someone else do it for you and achieve good results.


Guess was a bad choice of words, my apologies. I could model it but I doubt I would get similar results to his with the experience I have designing enclosures. I'm working with 1.25 cubes of internal volume for a single 12. My plan was to go sealed due to my experience with designing. If there's someone who'd be willing to help me, I'll just stick with drivers I've used and know.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

bigguy2010 said:


> Guess was a bad choice of words, my apologies. I could model it but I doubt I would get similar results to his with the experience I have designing enclosures. I'm working with 1.25 cubes of internal volume for a single 12. My plan was to go sealed due to my experience with designing. If there's someone who'd be willing to help me, I'll just stick with drivers I've used and know.


1.25 cubes sealed? Buy a C12XL and call it a day. 

Seriously though, if you have some drivers you want modeled, shoot me a PM. I'm no PWK, but I can input T/S parameters into WinISD like nobodies business. :laugh:


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

rton20s said:


> 1.25 cubes sealed? Buy a C12XL and call it a day.
> 
> Seriously though, if you have some drivers you want modeled, shoot me a PM. I'm no PWK, but I can input T/S parameters into WinISD like nobodies business. :laugh:


Lol that's the easy way out, not my style 

I'll shoot you a pm with some of the drivers in looking at.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

bigguy2010 said:


> Guess was a bad choice of words, my apologies. I could model it but I doubt I would get similar results to his with the experience I have designing enclosures. I'm working with 1.25 cubes of internal volume for a single 12. My plan was to go sealed due to my experience with designing. If there's someone who'd be willing to help me, I'll just stick with drivers I've used and know.


Let me try and put this a different way. What do you think you'll be getting from one of Pete's designs? 

One should have project goals first and foremost, then find equipment that will fill that goal. Picking sub brand A or B will get you ... not very far, fast. The same goes for a PWK enclosure. If you can't reason/justify what you would get from a PWK enclosure beyond what you could design for yourself, or have someone else design for you, then for why are you chasing PWK? .... and most people I speak to can't really tell me what they would gain with a PWK box, beyond showing me a graph! 

Don't get me wrong, Pete knows his stuff, however, i think all this malarky with AD Designs ... aperiodc enclosures etc, is nothing more than a bit of intellectual onanism! If one can't get a decent response from a more simplistic enclosure, then I question the subwoofer and/or the acoustic engineer.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

captainscarlett said:


> Let me try and put this a different way. What do you think you'll be getting from one of Pete's designs?
> 
> One should have project goals first and foremost, then find equipment that will fill that goal. Picking sub brand A or B will get you ... not very far, fast. The same goes for a PWK enclosure. If you can't reason what you would get from a PWK enclosure beyond what you could design for yourself, or have someone else design for you, then for why are you chasing PWK? .... and most people I speak to can't, beyond showing me a graph!
> 
> Don;t get me wrong, I think Pete knows his stuff, however i think all this malarky with AD Designs ... aperiodc enclosures etc, is nothing more than a bit of intellectual onanism! If one can't get a decent response from a more simplistic enclosure, then I question the subwoofer and/or the acoustic engineer.


I would be getting an enclosure that lines up with my specific goals in mind, taking into account equipment and vehicle variables. 

I agree, picking xyz brand doesn't mean much. That's not why I'm going to him. I'm simply settling for an AD driver to reap the benefits of his enclosure design. I don't have any experience with their gear and I'm fine with keeping it that way. I've had good experiences with his designs before that's the only reason I'm seeking an opinion about AD on here. 

I agree, some of the alignments seem a little nuts and elaborate but I can understand that it may be going in a specific application too. I'm a fan of Pete and the old PWK days I'm not going to lie. He's an intelligent engineer, who definitely knows and understands what he knows in his world. I've built 4-5 of his designs and had great results. I'm sure there's guys on here that know just as much or more and can reproduce some good results too. I just don't who knows good and who's not, again lack of experience. Sorry for blowing up this thread, I'll start my own next time lol


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

bigguy2010 said:


> I would be getting an enclosure that lines up with my specific goals in mind, taking into account equipment and vehicle variables.
> 
> I agree, picking xyz brand doesn't mean much. That's not why I'm going to him. I'm simply settling for an AD driver to reap the benefits of his enclosure design. I don't have any experience with their gear and I'm fine with keeping it that way. I've had good experiences with his designs before that's the only reason I'm seeking an opinion about AD on here.
> 
> I agree, some of the alignments seem a little nuts and elaborate but I can understand that it may be going in a specific application too. I'm a fan of Pete and the old PWK days I'm not going to lie. He's an intelligent engineer, who definitely knows and understands what he knows in his world. I've built 4-5 of his designs and had great results. I'm sure there's guys on here that know just as much or more and can reproduce some good results too. I just don't who knows good and who's not, again lack of experience. Sorry for blowing up this thread, I'll start my own next time lol



... on the other side of the coin; _If you think that graphs of an in-car response are the be-all and end-all_ to the experience as a whole, then go for an AD sub and a PWK enclosure. _I don't_!!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down playing Pete ability. I think he's tired more than most to correct many of the fallacies of car audio acoustics, but I also think there's a time to call "BS" ... and from what I've seen from the AD videos and some of the builds in the vlog, i'm just calling it ... as I see it.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

captainscarlett said:


> ... on the other side of the coin; _If you think that graphs of an in-car response are the be-all and end-all_ to the experience as a whole, then go for an AD sub and a PWK enclosure. _I don't_!!!
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not down playing Pete ability. I think he's tired more than most to correct many of the fallacies of car audio acoustics, but I also think there's a time to call "BS" ... and from what I've seen from the AD videos and some of the builds in the vlog, i'm just calling it ... as I see it.


I don't look at the graphs, never paid for them so idk what you mean. I trusted him I guess? 

Yeah he's tired I'm sure, there's plenty of misconception and marketing to sell all these brands and levels of products. I've watched many of his old videos, mostly to learn and try to understand things. I can't really call bs on him because I'm not at his level of knowledge but I can appreciate what you're saying. His older PWK videos were mostly acoustics related, the AD stuff and his blogs are just his day to day nonsense with Sophie. I'll just stick with the guys on here and I'm sure I'll get 95% of what I'm after with Pete.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Further more, going by your set up in your sig, you're obviously not an amateur! 

I guess it's nice to have something you want, so if having a PWK enclosure is what you want from your project then go for it. 

As for AD Designs, i don't understand where they're coming from. From Pete's original introduction of the subs (before he removed all his earlier videos). Aaron seems to be some sort of SQ genius according to Pete, yet most of the videos so far is to prove the SPL capability. So i don;t know what they're about, SQ or SPL.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

bigguy2010 said:


> I don't look at the graphs, never paid for them so idk what you mean. I trusted him I guess?
> 
> Yeah he's tired I'm sure, there's plenty of misconception and marketing to sell all these brands and levels of products. I've watched many of his old videos, mostly to learn and try to understand things. I can't really call bs on him because I'm not at his level of knowledge but I can appreciate what you're saying. His older PWK videos were mostly acoustics related, the AD stuff and his blogs are just his day to day nonsense with Sophie. I'll just stick with the guys on here and I'm sure I'll get 95% of what I'm after with Pete.


I'm nowhere near his level either, from many years of selling, I can tell when i'm being sold to. It's called marketing... and the very fact that many seem frozen by fear of producing anything less than a PWK enclosure, is exactly the approach that gets him repeat business. 

American marketing is fearless like that. *Amplify a problem, establish yourself as an expert, then sell the solution*. So Pete is financially involved with AD Designs, he removes all his previous videos many of them serving as a 'Conflict of interest' i'm sure as Pete has praised and reviewed many other brands .. rival brands. So having a financial stake in AD, he's not going to want to be seen to big up DD, Sundown or Hybrid anymore, which was Steve's basic approach when he responded to my email .. basically, everyone else products are sub-standard and AD is the best .. kinda talk. 

The same goes for his enclosure design .... *this box needs a 16th order, aperiodic, iso,horn* to sound the absolute apex, and of course Pete's the only one who knows how to design such an enclosure ... so if you want to get the most out of your sub, you have to go to him..... kinda of marketing approach.



Like I said, i'm nowhere near Pete or any real professional, but i know enough to have an opinion. and to be brave enough to have a go. So what if a get a slight peak somewhere. I can measure, redesign and have another go. So what if my box or my box is 2dB down @ 32 hz in comparison to Pete's design ... would you really notice a 2 dB drop @ 32hz when listening to a bit of Dubstep, Rap or Taylor Swift?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Pete worked for DD at one point. 

I paid a lot for a folded horn a few years ago. I trusted the hype. 
Needless to say it wasn't any better than my tried and true designed ported box. 
If you are just looking for better than that JL prefab, that's easy.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

captainscarlett said:


> Further more, going by your set up in your sig, you're obviously not an amateur!
> 
> I guess it's nice to have something you want, so if having a PWK enclosure is what you want from your project then go for it.
> 
> As for AD Designs, i don't understand where they're coming from. From Pete's original introduction of the subs (before he removed all his earlier videos). Aaron seems to be some sort of SQ genius according to Pete, yet most of the videos so far is to prove the SPL capability. So i don;t know what they're about, SQ or SPL.


No, fair from new to audio but I've never drilled deep enough into acoustics to look at a model in a program and say, oh I need 16 square inches of port or 1.5 cubes or whatever. I'm sure I can find the help here to get me 95% of my end goal. 

I see your point about him changing from company to company. It did get weird once he went to AD....


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

captainscarlett said:


> I'm nowhere near his level either, from many years of selling, I can tell when i'm being sold to. It's called marketing... and the very fact that many seem frozen by fear of producing anything less than a PWK enclosure, is exactly the approach that gets him repeat business.
> 
> American marketing is fearless like that. *Amplify a problem, establish yourself as an expert, then sell the solution*. So Pete is financially involved with AD Designs, he removes all his previous videos many of them serving as a 'Conflict of interest' i'm sure as Pete has praised and reviewed many other brands .. rival brands. So having a financial stake in AD, he's not going to want to be seen to big up DD, Sundown or Hybrid anymore, which was Steve's basic approach when he responded to my email .. basically, everyone else products are sub-standard and AD is the best .. kinda talk.
> 
> ...


All good points. I can see the American marketing you're speaking of all the time. That's how we sell the American dream LOL. 

I've only ever sunk $50 into a design in the past. To me, that's worth my time of doing it right the first time. Sure I could build, install and test but I don't have the measuring equipment yet which would make a difference no matter what setup I use. Pete and Steve have always had a little bit of that attitude even before AD, but they seem to know something more than anyone I've ran into yet. You're right in that I probably wouldn't recognize a -2db difference, especially if it was just by ear.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

DDfusion said:


> Pete worked for DD at one point.
> 
> I paid a lot for a folded horn a few years ago. I trusted the hype.
> Needless to say it wasn't any better than my tried and true designed ported box.
> If you are just looking for better than that JL prefab, that's easy.


I know he used to work for DD, that was around the time I found out about him. 

I'm not sure what "a lot" is but the designs were $50, so maybe explain that? Did he build it or  What's your "tried and true" design since it's clearly better?

I'm not sure where you're getting the JL prefab from. I'm sure it's really easy to do better than a JL prefab, why don't you fill us all in?

This box I'm building is for my Tundra, I'm not messing with the W7.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Pete worked for DD at one point.


I didn't know he 'worked for' DD. I just thought from his 'Guess what's in my trunk' video where he designed the 'Phase Box' that he designed a few enclosures but that was it. I thought it was Steve that worked for DD. 



DDfusion said:


> If you are just looking for better than that JL prefab, that's easy.


Still love the CP108 and regret getting rid. It's no bass monster, but it's a average/good SQ set up. It's just the price that sucks. 



DDfusion said:


> I paid a lot for a folded horn a few years ago. I trusted the hype.
> Needless to say it wasn't any better than my tried and true designed ported box.


I guess it's down to ones expectations of what a PWK enclosure can do. Again, graphs for me aren't everything, and when i find someone who can tell by ear a 2 dB drop @ 35, then a 3 dB hike @ 48 and a 1 dB [email protected] 83 ... i'll let you know. 

note to self: i must get round to designing and building a horn.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

I had a bit of fun at building a similar enclosure to the CP108

https://surfandsound.wordpress.com/...e-jl-audio-cp108lg-8w3v3-subwoofer-enclosure/

Of course the enclosure choked the 8W3v3. That thing can sing in the right enclosure. But for what it is. I still like the CP108.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I also thought that Pete was more of a hired gun for DD rather than working "for" them. Steve worked there for a long time though.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> I also thought that Pete was more of a hired gun for DD rather than working "for" them. Steve worked there for a long time though.


Yeah you guys have it right, he worked along side of them and Steve. Pete seems like he's always been about doing his own thing and kind of sharing his experiences with different brands. I'm sure there was always money involved or heavy discounts on gear. He had some nasty DD 15's in his rig a while back, I can't remember the model but they they had some crazy neo motors from what I recall.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The Z series has the neo bar magnet motors.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I think I remember hearing Pete did the "DD box". Maybe that's why they always work


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> The Z series has the neo bar magnet motors.


YUP! Those couldn't have been cheap LOL


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

2500 a pop for me. I get pretty good pricing.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

This is still one of the better POV's/Quotes 



rton20s said:


> Now, to my thoughts. Do I see anything inherently wrong with what AD is doing relative to the rest of the industry? No. It just so happens that their basis of design is out there for the world to see on Alibaba.
> 
> Is their MSRP higher than it should be? Maybe. But as a consumer, it is your responsibility to educate yourself.
> 
> ...


With emphasis on 



> And what about Pete and Steve? In my opinion, they seem to promote whoever is paying them at the time. Whether this is through monetary compensation or free/reduced price product. They had a relationship with DD, and DD was the hot ticket. Then it was Hybrid and now it is AD. In a few months, it will be something else. Unless AD continues to line their pockets.


I'm not saying it is that way, but it wouldn't be much of an effort to come to this sort of conclusion. 

As for AD products, the speakers are Alibaba stuff as has been well established, as are speakers marketed by other brands. Have a good look on Alibaba and you'll see a surprising amount of recognizable products ... "that looks like a Sony this or Pioneer that" ... kinda thing going on. 

Then comes the manufacturers comments (not talking just about AD) that the speakers have been; "altered to spec". Possible? Sure. Probable? Meh! As for AD subs and amps, they seem to be the ticket, ...... along with the other 3,000 new brands that will spring up this weekend with products they claim are MIA, with the 'A' being firmly located in the Eastern hemisphere, or products, "Made in our Miramar factory by people who care", whilst their website firmly states that some of their gear is made in Germany, and the rest I suspect is sourced from a country far outside the U.S. boundaries, and simply assembled by someone in the U.S. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1660557-post30.html

Am I interested in AD? Sure .... i'd like to have a go, but not because of Pete's designs ... i'm over that now. It's pure curiosity ... and that goes for the speakers as well; are they as good as they claim? But for now I use more tried and tested brands. As for enclosure design, it's just something that i love doing, where other area's in my system design i don't like getting involved with.... EQ, DSP, TA ...I just like to slap in a pair of coaxial's and get started .... i'm a bit impatient like that. It's just one of those things.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

People are always going to jump ship.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> This is still one of the better POV's/Quotes


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

rton20s said:


>



I've never seen the film!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> I've never seen the film!


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

rton20s said:


>


I hasten to add that I am acquiring a copy at this very moment ....


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm in the process of digesting bill's comments on t-lines, and have just noticed he's been banned from diyaudio. now I've google'd why he's been banned. 

I don't necessarily agree with his comments on t-lines ... which given his knowledge and status on various forums, is quite a brave and strange thing to say. 

TL Sub VS Ported Sub - diyAudio


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

captainscarlett said:


> I hasten to add that I am acquiring a copy at this very moment ....


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

He was shilling people. Had shill accounts made to promote his business.



captainscarlett said:


> I'm in the process of digesting bill's comments on t-lines, and have just noticed he's been banned from diyaudio. now I've google'd why he's been banned.
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with his comments on t-lines ... which given his knowledge and status on various forums, is quite a brave and strange thing to say.
> 
> TL Sub VS Ported Sub - diyAudio


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Which brings me onto the next point; people forget the design and would rather give praise to the designer. 

Saying; "his plans work" (not refering to PWK in particualr) is fine, but the truth is, horns, t-line, even ABC design is nothing new. Case in point, billfitzmaurice customer


> His designs really do work; horn loading is a very efficient and well proven speaker technology.


Of course it works ... it's a horn design. But this happy customer hasn't documented how it works, and especially, how it compares.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> He was shilling people. Had shill accounts made to promote his business.



I'm getting that feeling.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

When it comes to t-lines, jensen transflex, Isobaic and even the humble ported box, those have been taken. Maybe PWK is trying to go down in the halls of fame for perfecting the 126th order bandpass, aperiodic, series couple, horn enclosure. 

In all seriousness, i think he goes overboard with the series coupled and aperiodic stuff, maybe that's what he's trying to stamp. And maybe i'm grumpy becasue he stop doing build video's which i found mildly entertaining, and now does videos with him and Sophie walking 'round malls trying to come up with Jeremy Clarkson style comedic comments.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I feel you. I feel the same way when I see some "horn" that he did...but was more or less a ported enclosure with a tappered port. Which, if you play around with hornresp, you can sim a tappered port.

But it does take a certain level of knowledge to design those exotic enclosures...especially in a timely fashion. So I do have to give Pete props on that account.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> But it does take a certain level of knowledge to design those exotic enclosures...especially in a timely fashion. So I do have to give Pete props on that account.


But are they really necessary?


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

rton20s said:


>


Just finished the film. Not something I'd watch again in a hurry. The only thing i really roared at was the sprinkling of the ashes near the end.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That's a good question. And I think the best answer is it depends.

Some people like to approach things as a technical exercise, to get every last drop of performance out of what they have for whatever reason. And in order to do that, things have to get complicated...be it the old EMMA pure passive class, the old IASCA 0-50 watt class, using little speakers for bass. So if you are one of those kinds of people (I used to be), then it might be necessary.

However putting a pair of 6s or 8s in a 3 cube enclosure (for example) seems like a waste of the volume when you could easily accommodate a much larger driver that can displace a lot more air. That is provided you have the surface area to put a large speaker in.

Be me, today, I go for the easiest way to get the most performance. I just don't care to make things really complicated any more. But some folks do.



captainscarlett said:


> But are they really necessary?


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> That's a good question. And I think the best answer is it depends.
> 
> Some people like to approach things as a technical exercise, to get every last drop of performance out of what they have for whatever reason. And in order to do that, things have to get complicated...be it the old EMMA pure passive class, the old IASCA 0-50 watt class, using little speakers for bass. So if you are one of those kinds of people (I used to be), then it might be necessary.
> 
> ...


I guess what I'm trying to say is; I don't question the science behind it, more the motive. Again to me, it looks like intellectual display "I can do this" rather than "It needs to be done this way."

The wow factor from customers seemed to be the various wave guides and complexity to his designs, which he somewhat address with his "Means to an end" video in which Pete recounted an experience with a customer who was disappointed with his 'sealed enclosure' bluerpint. Pete went on to say that this guy spent $100's in supplies and many attempts to replicate the performance of this sealed enclosure, and he gave in and went back to his sealed PWK design. 

Don't get me wrong, they are interesting and beautiful, however is at the end of the day it's the ability to achieve a certain response curve, and surely having proved his intellectual prowess, if anyone can squeeze the last drop out of a sub in a more simplistic enclosure ... it's Pete! 

The only other person/designs i've seen get near the kind of stuff Pete designed is basstech on the ddaudio.it website

https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460161886./669798203066667/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162066./570278356351986/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162104./544625075583981/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162165./444716655574824/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162166./419117258134764/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162210./314725668573924/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162210./312308812148943/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162210./305705842809240/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/DD.ITALY/p...0.1460162210./305707732809051/?type=3&theater

Isn't Garry Springgay supposed to be a whiz with ABC enclosures or something (rhetorical)?


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## yoshi5674 (Oct 13, 2011)

was looking for sone info on AD Designs and saw this thread. Those components the OP posted look exactly like the Soundstream ref set I threw in a truck last year. Tweeters I could swear are exactly the same, different x-over tho.


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