# So, Im thinking of starting a small tweeter only business...suggestions?



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

All my tweeters will be housed in aluminum casing and well built.

I will offer a 25mm ring radiator with aluminum phaseplug in black aluminum casing.

and 5 soft dome tweeters:

One series using germany sourced silk diaphragms (think Rainbow) and black aluminum casing. I have ordered samples of this model in 25mm, 28mm and 30mm domes

The last will be a 1" treated silk dome in aluminum color and casing.

None will be over $200 a pair and hopefully much less.

They all can be crossed over at 2k and above

Thoughts, suggestions?

Only thing is they DO NOT come with mounting hardware but are flush mount.

Few pics

These are the germany silk domes offered in 25, 28 and 30 mm. (Ill be sampling all)










This is the ring radiator










and this is the treated silk










I will be receiving 10 tweeters to listen to and then decide.

One company that uses this buildhouse(and one of the above tweets) is based in germany and their name ends with the letter x. I would be the only american supplier of the ring radiator tweet.

Questions:

What would you find to be acceptable pricing for a pair of these? 

What do you look for in a tweeter?

Any suggestions or thoughts/advice?

Which of the above seems the most appealing to you?


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## malice (Aug 29, 2008)

How similar are they to this? Madisound Speaker Store 

I would price it accordingly.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

What influence, if any, do you have over the manufacturing process? The way I think I understand it you are basically putting a name on imported goods with no change to it? Why?

These are all questions NOT slams on you. Why would I buy 'yours' over Brand X?

P.S. I want you to be successful and I would be interested in hearing these. Best of luck to you


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

malice said:


> How similar are they to this? Madisound Speaker Store
> 
> I would price it accordingly.


No I think it is this one though. They so look similar to the Seas one you linked but this one looks exact.

Car tweeter products, buy Car tweeter products from alibaba.com




Is this the treated silk one?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/544881228/Car_tweeter.html


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

malice said:


> How similar are they to this? Madisound Speaker Store
> 
> I would price it accordingly.


Theyre both silk tweeters. Thats about it as far as similarities. Mine will have aluminum casing (not Plastic) and will be available with 25,28 and 30mm dome sizes.

Completely different speakers.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Notloudenuf said:


> What influence, if any, do you have over the manufacturing process? The way I think I understand it you are basically putting a name on imported goods with no change to it? Why?
> 
> These are all questions NOT slams on you. Why would I buy 'yours' over Brand X?
> 
> P.S. I want you to be successful and I would be interested in hearing these. Best of luck to you


I am importing these tweeters because they are not available in america and I think they would be right up the diyma active alley. As far as customization, I can customize but it costs more. At this point I am just trying all the samples to decide which models to carry.

You would pick mine over others due to the aluminum housing (asthetics and build quality) price (mine will be MUCH less expensive than similar build quality speakers) and hopefully performance.

If I get them and theyre garbage quality and dont sound good, its a no go and I take the hit.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

07azhhr said:


> No I think it is this one though. They so look similar to the Seas one you linked but this one looks exact.
> 
> Car tweeter products, buy Car tweeter products from alibaba.com
> 
> ...


Yes, that is exactly where I will be buying from and those are the tweeters. Once you place an order you get a pdf with more information and I am waiting on fr/distortion plots.

I have no issue sharing where I will be getting them from because this is an honest endeavor and just a trial. I just so happen to have a business I can use. Of course, you can undercut me and buy 100 tweeters and sell them for a few bucks less but thats up to you. 

I just do not like how expensive tweeters are not made with aluminum housing (Like my Hertzs28 tweets, morel...) and I am also a fan of aesthetics. 

I also know people like the xt25 and this version looks slick.

Basically, Im just importing them and selling them here, but at a good price and a small level operation.

Some extra income and I get to add to the car audio tweeter choices. Maybe team up with DIYMA, I dont know yet


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

They are more comparible to a tweeter like this than those seas (maybe the lotus performance is a good comparison)

WoofersEtc.com - CAL 27 Silk VOF - Power CS 1.06" Tweeter Set

But I have to hear them before I go around boasting how great they are. They very well may sound ****ty, doubt it thought from speaking to the company.

Once I chose which I will go with I have the option of a custom mold, choice of magnets, color, logo.

I can say I would like the XT version but in aluminum finish to match the phaseplug with a deeper chamber and toss my logo on it. Like other companies do.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Why stop at just tweeters though? That same company sells a lot of items. 

Here is a component set that includes the first tweeter. 94 db for the woofer? That would be a big selling point right there.

6.5" component speaker - Detailed info for 6.5" component speaker,car audio component speaker,6.5" component speaker,HYW-635-033B on Alibaba.com

I am looking to see if they sell amps too. But those comps only require 20 sets minimum so they wouldn't break the bank like some minimum qty's might.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I can now see why you say to think Rainbow. I don't know if it is even a doubt when you see the pic in this link. Scroll down to the first pic below the product description then look at the x-over.

6-1/2" component car speaker - Detailed info for 6-1/2" component car speaker,car audio component speaker,6-1/2" component car speaker,HYW-625-053 on Alibaba.com


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

07azhhr said:


> I can now see why you say to think Rainbow. I don't know if it is even a doubt when you see the pic in this link. Scroll down to the first pic below the product description then look at the x-over.
> 
> 6-1/2" component car speaker - Detailed info for 6-1/2" component car speaker,car audio component speaker,6-1/2" component car speaker,HYW-625-053 on Alibaba.com


Yep Im not BSing.

We will see how the tweeters go first. Then I will look into that set and the kevlar set.

Shipping is expensive and often is close to the cost of the item...except tweeters ya see.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

German goodness ehh.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

If you can influence the design, try to reduce the impedance peak at Fs of the ring radiator. If it's much like the vifa XT series, the impedance peak will really limit how low you can cross which means you ignore the really low Fs and must cross considerably higher unless you use a very steep slope.
Interest would depend on pricing. Honestly, I find most car proposed tweeters very limited in their capabilities due to the compromises made to keep a compact chassis and prefer to use home audio tweeters for custom stuff. If these preform close to home tweeters, thatd generate some interest I think, but I doubt it since the chambers are so small so they may likely have the high Fs, high resonance and breakup issues associated with compromised small chassis.
Good luck.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Jsracing said:


> If you can influence the design, try to reduce the impedance peak at Fs of the ring radiator. If it's much like the vifa XT series, the impedance peak will really limit how low you can cross which means you ignore the really low Fs and must cross considerably higher unless you use a very steep slope.
> Interest would depend on pricing. Honestly, I find most car proposed tweeters very limited in their capabilities due to the compromises made to keep a compact chassis and prefer to use home audio tweeters for custom stuff. If these preform close to home tweeters, thatd generate some interest I think, but I doubt it since the chambers are so small so they may likely have the high Fs, high resonance and breakup issues aslwesociated with compromised small chassis.
> Good luck.


While I agree fully, most people (95%) use compact tweeters in their car. Due to size limitation or looks and practicality. There are many small format tweeters that can rival the performance of large format tweeters. I also build and design home audio speaker so I have tinkered with lots of tweeters

FYI 

The fs on the xt is 950

on the 30mm tweeter, its 920

But, companies do provide inaccurate info often


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> I am importing these tweeters because they are not available in america and I think they would be right up the diyma active alley. As far as customization, I can customize but it costs more. At this point I am just trying all the samples to decide which models to carry.
> 
> You would pick mine over others due to the aluminum housing (asthetics and build quality) price (mine will be MUCH less expensive than similar build quality speakers) and hopefully performance.
> 
> If I get them and theyre garbage quality and dont sound good, its a no go and I take the hit.


Awesome. Thanks for the answers. I hope they sound great and are worth the time, energy, and expense to import.

I am currently in the market for tweeters and the XT25 and SEAS neo fabric are both on my short list.


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## malice (Aug 29, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> Yes, that is exactly where I will be buying from and those are the tweeters. Once you place an order you get a pdf with more information and I am waiting on fr/distortion plots.
> 
> I have no issue sharing where I will be getting them from because this is an honest endeavor and just a trial. I just so happen to have a business I can use. Of course, you can undercut me and buy 100 tweeters and sell them for a few bucks less but thats up to you.
> 
> ...


Just trying to clear something up. Im not picking but ..
In your first post you said "These are the germany silk domes offered in 25, 28 and 30 mm. (Ill be sampling all)"
which gave me the impression that they are German made but the alibaba link indicates that they are Chinese made.
Honestly I don't care where they are from if they perform I just wanted to point that out.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

malice said:


> Just trying to clear something up. Im not picking but ..
> In your first post you said "These are the germany silk domes offered in 25, 28 and 30 mm. (Ill be sampling all)"
> which gave me the impression that they are German made but the alibaba link indicates that they are Chinese made.
> Honestly I don't care where they are from if they perform I just wanted to point that out.


The diaphragms are Germany made, thats what he said


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Its amazing how much you can find with Alibaba and those types of sites. Digging can open your eyes to things you never knew and expose you to products that arent what they seem to be or are advertised to be for that matter.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

not trying to pour piss in the soup...........but this is like opening an ice cream shop and only offering Chocolate. Chocolate is nice, but I like strawberry too


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

minbari said:


> not trying to pour piss in the soup...........but this is like opening an ice cream shop and only offering Chocolate. Chocolate is nice, but I like strawberry too


Not really, MANY of the companies start with a single driver and branch out from there. With the way customs is set up and the MOQ's of many of the companies its hard to start with multiple drivers so you start with one, sell your inventory and then order more while adding a second that you develop while you are selling the first and then so on and so forth....

I do see where you are coming from but if you are going to start small, a tweeter is the way to go.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Yes theyre all built in china but use german soft parts/domes.

I am also pricing the component sets.

-Its not just chocolate, its chocolate with aluminum magic shell, 25 mm chocolate, 28 mm chocolate and 30 mm chocolate. And of course the xt25 chocolate which is like moca caramel?

Also, if a company makes an amazing chocolate ice cream, that is possibly all they need.

Chefhow, thats exactly how I plan to start. Just dipping my toes in the kiddy pool.

If the tweeters are not worth it, Ill scrap the plans and go back to being a plain old cognitive therapist.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

malice said:


> Just trying to clear something up. Im not picking but ..
> In your first post you said "These are the germany silk domes offered in 25, 28 and 30 mm. (Ill be sampling all)"
> which gave me the impression that they are German made but the alibaba link indicates that they are Chinese made.
> Honestly I don't care where they are from if they perform I just wanted to point that out.


From the link

_1, Nominal diamter: 1" dome tweeter for car audio

2, Diaphragm : High-end Germany Silk Diaphragm 

3, Voice coil: 25 mm 

4, Frequency response: 1000 Hz-----30K Hz

5, SPL: 91±3 dB @ 1M/1W

6, RMS: 15W

7. Max Power: 30W

8. Impedance: 4Ω-8Ω,

9, Grill: Aluminium alloy
_


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## bgalaxy (Aug 18, 2006)

While I commend wanting to bring out a different option in products to the public. I would suggest being very cautious when dealing with China suppliers. I have seen first hand how well they will sell you a very good product in samples and 1st orders, and very quietly change quality as well as parameters on you in subsequent orders. If they will sell you samples, they will sell anyone samples. It's very easy for anyone to find an overseas suppliers and get no label products. I have quite the collection of "prototype" products from a vast number of established USA companies. 

Also keep in mind that all these china companies are government funded and owned. So it really doesn't matter about their quality as they can close shop, change name and get back to doing exactly what they were building before. A buildhouse I used has changed their names 3 times since i stopped dealing with them. Even after them screwing me out of a good amount of money, they still haven't taken my email out of their database, and still send me their "new products" catalog. 

I wish you luck in your journey. It can be very rewarding 


- Bill


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I bet they bought 1 tweeter from germany and just reverse engineered it.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

All very possible. Their English is poor and they had a hard time explaining the difference between their ring radiator and the xt25. All I could make out is that vifa is plastic and uses plastic phase plugs/casings while their design uses aluminum phase plugs/casing. They were clear about it being their own design yet similar in many ways.

It is like the wild wild west out in China so Im hopping in cautiously with 10 sample tweeters.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

They sent me the rresponse plot from the 25mm german silk black version










its not pretty


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

tyroneshoes said:


> /IMG]
> 
> its not pretty


Yea. That's horrible. 
IMHO, you should start considering other options because that's really, really bad.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Be careful because some of the things are not always what they seem when dealing with the Chinese buildhouses...they might be able to make somethings look like others but the performance is much different.



chefhow said:


> Its amazing how much you can find with Alibaba and those types of sites. Digging can open your eyes to things you never knew and expose you to products that arent what they seem to be or are advertised to be for that matter.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> Yea. That's horrible.
> IMHO, you should start considering other options because that's really, really bad.


Some more ****ty fr graphs came in.

the 28mm










the 30mm










10db deep drops and peaks in the passband? I didnt know you could make a tweeter this crappy and bother with aluminum casing.

The25mm treated silk aluminum colored casing is the only one with a decent yet still bleh response. No where near as good as some cheap vifas or the majority of tweeters on madisound.










My other options are, meh, why bother. Was just an idea. I can just resell them on ebay to get my money back. Glad I didnt buy in bulk.

I just want to see how the xt measurements look but Im going to assume ****ty. Its the only one im interested in and they some how "lost" those.

Based on these responses, one cant help to be a cynic:

_HYT-25-003 is different with vifa xt25 . Because it is with aluminium alloy housing. Vifa xt25 is with plastic housing. 
It is our own design and mould. 
I would like to send the frequency response to you later unavailable now. 
_

_As for the frequency response graphic, I am sorry about it. 
The development department mix the model number and they can not find it. 
So, I will have to wait them to test it again later. 
I will send it to you soon. 

Regards, 
Sophie 
_

Yeah whatever Sophie


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

OP, this isnt directed at you so please dont take offense....



It's interesting to note how this thread has trended and folks talking about how some of these cheap drivers are linked (and in some cases implied they are the same) to other more expensive drivers. 

It really goes to show you how sometimes a cheap driver is indeed just that; a cheap driver. Not a diamond in the rough. Not an origination of another, similar looking driver. 

And it only further proves that data can help you make a wiser purchase. 

Ever see a knock off item you know is counterfeit? Say, a fake pair of Oakley's?... How many times have you said to yourself "oh, the Oakley's are the same thing but just marked up because of the name" and thought the cheap ones were just as good? Probably never. 

I'm NOT saying that companies don't source from build houses (a few very well loved brands here are made by build houses overseas for next to nothing and marked up incredibly high at retail) but I am saying that just because they look the same doesn't mean they are. It's not as easy as looking. Through all of my testing I've made a lot of friends in the industry and learned alot about various "manufacturers". Some info comes as no surprise. Others would require help to lift your jaw off the floor. bottom line is you don't really know without evidence. A hunch isn't really enough to hang a purchase/non-purchase on. 

At least the source here does not hide performance. However, it seems dishonest in some way to not provide this information until a purchase is made. that should throw a red flag to future customers I would think. But, maybe not. 

For this alone, the OP should be thanked. I have a feeling I'll be referencing this thread a lot in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Do the graphs look weird to anybody else? I dont test drivers or have any of that software, but it seems odd that they all play lower frequencies better than midrange frequencies. I dont see any of the graphs doing that on Madisounds site. Are those not done with full bandwidth?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

BeatsDownLow said:


> Do the graphs look weird to anybody else? I dont test drivers or have any of that software, but it seems odd that they all play lower frequencies better than midrange frequencies. I dont see any of the graphs doing that on Madisounds site. Are those not done with full bandwidth?


Theyre just very weird curves. I think theyre just bad tweeters but I will listen to them. I didnt lose much here so its no loss really.

Whats odd is the last tweeter plot wouldnt be that bad in my car since I have a peak at 4k due to my locations.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I am having an interesting conversation with the owner now and I have the response plot of the xt25 knockoff.










Basically shes giving me the "listen with your ears" crap and Im explaining that if she must ship the speakers go ahead but I will not be doing any further business with them and informed her the if the plots were available prior to purchase there would have been no purchase of samples. Lets see if I get a refund.

Edit: However, she just said she will measure them again more accurately as "The production department only test them approximately"... I said yes do that.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

You'd better start with a vifa XT25 SC90, heat the plasic housing a little to undo the glue and mount it in an aluminum cup/ring . I have taken one apart and the phase plug could also be exchanged but you'd have to be very carefull not to mess up the tweeter.
It could turn into a beauty though with good sound.
I choose to stay with an all black theme due to ease of build (3D print) but kept wondering about an aluminum version. But it would have to include a phase plug swap for something like on the scan speak offerings...









Something like combining this:








with this phase plug look (and shape of wave guide):


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

Good thread and intersting findings.

If I were to buy anything fom those build houses I'd start with something less specialist and plumb for the cheaper ebay end of the market-there are some very marketable looking subwoofers on there for those that want boom-boom!


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Be careful because some of the things are not always what they seem when dealing with the Chinese buildhouses...they might be able to make somethings look like others but the performance is much different.


I have found that as well. Like I said earlier, its amazing what you will find thru digging.


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## malice (Aug 29, 2008)

I guess im an eternal optimist. You had a great idea for a business and you planned it out and executed that plan, which is more than I can say for most people. It just didn't turn out as you expected but kudos on taking initiative.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Wesayso said:


> You'd better start with a vifa XT25 SC90, heat the plasic housing a little to undo the glue and mount it in an aluminum cup/ring . I have taken one apart and the phase plug could also be exchanged but you'd have to be very carefull not to mess up the tweeter.
> It could turn into a beauty though with good sound.
> I choose to stay with an all black theme due to ease of build (3D print) but kept wondering about an aluminum version. But it would have to include a phase plug swap for something like on the scan speak offerings...
> 
> ...


yeah I was thinking of the same thing with the 5 sets I have on the way.

pleanty bare vifas may fit into their casing. well see.

just proof that dealing with China buildhouses is risky and if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Little update and some good/suspicious news

_Hello Harry, 

Good day! 
I attached a testing graph again on the attachment. The model TS-30AB, 
Engineers tested them at a wrong angle last time. 
How about is it ok now? 

The other models have the same situation with it. 
The sound is high-end. 

Please let me know if you need me to send them to you. 

Regards, 
Sophie 

_










I reply:

_Yes that is a large difference and much more acceptable. However, I would like similar updated graphs on HYT-25-003, ts-28ab, ts-25ab and the ts-d25

It is crucial to my purchase that the response test is accurate as I will be publishing them with the ad and my consumers are quite savvy. You can send my order if you agree to retest them.

Thank you Sophie
-Harry
_


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

BTW,

Who has the kipple now as Id like to send to them for an unbiased test


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

This seems fishy man. It seems that they are sending you graphs until 1 of them finally makes you happy. :thumbsdown:

Best of luck


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Notloudenuf said:


> This seems fishy man. It seems that they are sending you graphs until 1 of them finally makes you happy. :thumbsdown:
> 
> Best of luck


It says the model number on all the graphs though (not like that would be hard to fake)

And the dome thats 25,28,30mm have similar curves. 

Ill let you know when the other graphs come out.


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## Renegadesoundwave (Apr 9, 2012)

Years ago you might have done well. Now with the help of the internet, companies and their products can be "busted" in mins if their are issues 
Expect a load of pain if YOU get shafted and sell on poor stuff . people will not forgive


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Renegadesoundwave said:


> Years ago you might have done well. Now with the help of the internet, companies and their products can be "busted" in mins if their are issues
> Expect a load of pain if YOU get shafted and sell on poor stuff . people will not forgive


What? This would never happen without the internet resources.

Like I said if its poor quality I wont order any more. I want to see more f/r plots of all the tweeters and if the 30mm plot provided looks wayyy different than the 28 and 25mm version of the same model then that is extremely suspect. Im not going to sell a crappy product. If I was going to do that I wouldnt be sharing all this info that would make people not want to buy them. I am a skeptic.

I have a career, just always wanted to work in this field all my life and Im not hiding anything and I wont ask for forgiveness because the Chirstians will do that for me. 

There is the chance that they are actually nice really tweeters in aluminum casing and Id like to sell those at a good price. 

I will keep this thread alive until I have the tweeters in my hands and share all my findings and soooo many pics of tweeters before I sell anything. I just dont have my own measurement software so at this point, I am waiting on the updated curves, 3 should be very similar. If theyre not, I move on and refinish my basement.

One thing I would offer is a 7 days grace period where you can listen to the tweeter and if you dont like it, return it to me (unscathed) for a full refund.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Just had another look at the Vifa XT25 SC90 graphs out there to compare. I know which one I'd pick. Oh wait, I allready did .
The're's still a 10 db difference in the newest graph for the 30mm, I guess it would be somewhat ok from 5k up, but why use a 30mm for that...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

[/QUOTE]
what tweet is that, looks great.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Madisound Speaker Store

Beauty right?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Wesayso said:


> Just had another look at the Vifa XT25 SC90 graphs out there to compare. I know which one I'd pick. Oh wait, I allready did .
> The're's still a 10 db difference in the newest graph for the 30mm, I guess it would be somewhat ok from 5k up, but why use a 30mm for that...


Yeah I have Vifa XT25 SC90 in my bedroom speakers.

I actually have no need for a 30 mm tweet (no one does) so I dont plan on carrying that one.

Prob a 28 mm silk ( black casing) 25mm silk (aluminum casing) and xt


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> Yeah I have Vifa XT25 SC90 in my bedroom speakers.
> 
> I actually have no need for a 30 mm tweet (no one does) so I dont plan on carrying that one.
> 
> Prob a 28 mm silk ( black casing) 25mm silk (aluminum casing) and xt


A 30mm tweet should work great in a-pillar applications since beaming happens lower in freqs - therefore controlling dispersion and also reflections up high... 


Kelvin


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

subwoofery said:


> A 30mm tweet should work great in a-pillar applications since beaming happens lower in freqs - therefore controlling dispersion and also reflections up high...
> 
> 
> Kelvin


So would you consider using the 30mm silk with this response?











For a-pillar apps?

If would be an interesting approach to sell tweeters based on typical tweeter locations as well.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Wesayso said:


> Madisound Speaker Store
> 
> Beauty right?


best looking tweet i`ve ever seen, thanks for the link,not exactly budget friendly driver.
On paper very comparable with Vifa XT25TG30 for 12 times less money


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> So would you consider using the 30mm silk with this response?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd use it from about 8kHz on up... Seems counter productive to use a big tweeter and not cross it low but for a-pillars, I think that a big voice coil would help minimize dispertion and reflections... 

Kelvin


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Ok, Im going through with it. Some new testing graphs in. 

The ring radiator










The 28 mm german silk










No sure how accurate their testing is so Im gonna try anyway


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

The new graphs look much better than previous ones, but the near 6dB fluctuations at adjacent frequencies are troubling. The original plots don't look like they're wrong. In fact, they look like a resonance problem often found in small format tweeters where. My post before about the limitations of mobile tweeters wasn't to recommend large format ones, but to simply point out issues with mobile tweeters such as this. There's a reason why really nice mobile tweeters such as Morel Piccolos are larger format. The new plots with the 6dB fluctuations will be audible. If it were a gradual rise/dip that was somewhat monotonic would be much better, but adjacent frequencies make it more audible. In all honesty, seeing those graphs, I would not purchase that tweeter. However, the response may smooth out off-axis which if the cost is low/reasonable, these may be useful for off-axis use.

Funny you mention home speakers as I also design home speakers. If you've used the Vifa XT series before, you'll know to ignore the low Fs. This is especially true with the XT25SC90 which has a very high impedance peak at Fs. While the Fs is low, the impedance peak will show up in audibility forcing you to use the XT25SC90 at 2.5kHz min xover with a steep (LR4 acoustic) slope. Crossing any lower would require a notch at the tweeter Fs.

While the plots don't look good for a "high" end tweeter, depending on cost, they may be acceptable for a low-cost option (don't know what your cost is). You really need to get the impedance plots also though as just seeing the FR doesn't give you the entire picture.
With all that said, to put a better light on these tweeters, many of the expensive automotive tweeters don't have much better looking plots, so with everyone disappointed in the ways these perform, they'd probably be surprised how poor many of the costly automotive tweeters perform.

EDIT:
Just to note that the plots provide may not be completely accurate either. If they were taken surface mounted, that can explain some of the raggedness. When you receive your samples, before to run some T/S parameters and FR and impedance sweeps flush mounted in an infinite baffle to eliminate as much difraction as you can from the tweeter's test data.

And I'd be curious to see some Rainbow tweeters tested at the same time to compare performance.

Good luck.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Jsracing said:


> The new graphs look much better than previous ones, but the near 6dB fluctuations at adjacent frequencies are troubling. The original plots don't look like they're wrong. In fact, they look like a resonance problem often found in small format tweeters where.  My post before about the limitations of mobile tweeters wasn't to recommend large format ones, but to simply point out issues with mobile tweeters such as this. There's a reason why really nice mobile tweeters such as Morel Piccolos are larger format. The new plots with the 6dB fluctuations will be audible. If it were a gradual rise/dip that was somewhat monotonic would be much better, but adjacent frequencies make it more audible. In all honesty, seeing those graphs, I would not purchase that tweeter. However, the response may smooth out off-axis which if the cost is low/reasonable, these may be useful for off-axis use.
> 
> Funny you mention home speakers as I also design home speakers. If you've used the Vifa XT series before, you'll know to ignore the low Fs. This is especially true with the XT25SC90 which has a very high impedance peak at Fs. While the Fs is low, the impedance peak will show up in audibility forcing you to use the XT25SC90 at 2.5kHz min xover with a steep (LR4 acoustic) slope. Crossing any lower would require a notch at the tweeter Fs.
> 
> ...


yeah, performance seems average. My comparison curve are the seas neo or xt25 as I consider them them to have the best performance vs value for those looking for a tweeter. However, I really dont think they know what theyre doing with measuring which is why Id like to get these out to someone who can measure their performance objectively. Seems they measured out of phase as well.

And those tweeters are pretty damn ugly as well( neo alum/xt25/ neo silk isnt horrible but still cheap looking)

The samples will be arriving this week.

Anyone willing to test these? I cover all costs.

I am hoping tu be able to use a 2.5-3k crossover for all these if not possibly lower like 2k.

Id like to make it a diyma exclusive but objective testing is needed. I dont think i have the tools needed.

And yep, 3.2 @ 18 db in my bedroom speakers


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I wonder if they even break in the speakers before testing?


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Nice speakers Tyrone. Dayton RS woofers?
Yes, have independent tests run, but as mentioned, be sure to run them IB and an impedance sweep is a must to check for spikes and discontinuities from chamber resonance. Z at Fs will need to be fairly low to cross at 2.5k in an automotive environment (which often uses shallow slopes).
Good luck.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

07azhhr said:


> I wonder if they even break in the speakers before testing?


That would have zero bearing on the data he's received. 

Tyrone, I might be willing to do some basic FR, impedance and HD tests if you'd like. 


Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> That would have zero bearing on the data he's received.
> 
> Tyrone, I might be willing to do some basic FR, impedance and HD tests if you'd like.
> 
> ...


Id really appreciate it. Ill let you know when they arrive.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Jsracing said:


> Nice speakers Tyrone. Dayton RS woofers?
> Yes, have independent tests run, but as mentioned, be sure to run them IB and an impedance sweep is a must to check for spikes and discontinuities from chamber resonance. Z at Fs will need to be fairly low to cross at 2.5k in an automotive environment (which often uses shallow slopes).
> Good luck.


Yep rs125s

if youre interested, most of my designs are here

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=222830

All that tweeter testing stuff is kinda over my head and I dont want to ******** people. But since bikinpunk is willing to test them (much thanks), it will be done objectively. I dont want to sell a bad product even if cosmetically, they look great.

Maybe Ill pass them around to sample or offer for a low diyma only price for this batch pendng tests.

I do have this impedance curve for the xt version for others who can read it more proficiently.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

So the tweeters arrived and lets say they certainly do not look like anything I have seen rebranded. 

So here are all of them.










Here are the three versions of the german dome silk tweets, lowest is 25 mm, then 28, then 30mm










I will be sending the 28mm to bikinpunk for testing

These










Then we have the aluminum colored treated silk 25mm domes. I like these just based on looks.



















They will be sent for testing as well

Then we have these oddities



















They are not at all like xt25s (aside from having a phaseplug) in fact I dont understand them at all but I know its their best seller. They look cool, thats all I can say at this point. I have not listened to any of them yet.

So these are the three Im sending to bikinpunk for testing










And I will keep you posted. These will not be overpriced (but I guess results will tell if theyre worth a dime). Im keeping them as entry level price (comparible to seas neo)


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

They certainly look very interesting to say the least. Lets see what what bikin has to say about them.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I agree. Im going to hook up the 30mms in my car for a bit.

Just replacing them with my hertz HT28s using the hertz crossover to see if they're listenable.
(2.5 12db)

Id appreciate any feedback/thoughts on the appearance of the tweets

These will be shipped to bikinpunk tomorrow morning for objective testing with full disclosure


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> I agree. Im going to hook up the 30mms in my car for a bit.
> 
> Just replacing them with my hertz HT28s using the hertz crossover to see if they're listenable.
> (2.5 12db)
> ...


Are you going to take a listen right now? If so i'm eagerly awaiting the results.
Well, some first impressions anyway. I'm really digging the "look" of them.
It would be great if they sounded good too!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

thomasluke said:


> Are you going to take a listen right now? If so i'm eagerly awaiting the results.
> Well, some first impressions anyway. I'm really digging the "look" of them.
> It would be great if they sounded good too!


Yep. Ill try to snap some pics. The 30mms are certainly slick/expensive looking. Im about to get subjective with bias.

Edit: Its raining so Im just going to get drunk instead.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

That last impedance plot is showing some pretty troubling edge mode termination issues, it seems.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Scott Buwalda said:


> That last impedance plot is showing some pretty troubling edge mode termination issues, it seems.


Thank you for chiming in Scott.

I unfortunately do not know what "edge mode termination" means, is there a way you can rephrase please and explain how it effects the tweeters performance?


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

tyroneshoes said:


> Id appreciate any feedback/thoughts on the appearance of the tweets



I hope they sound half as good as they look 

I have to applaud you for the effort and I really hope it works out for you, of course I need to be at the top of the buying list if they turn out to be a good product!

If this falls through you could always repair amps cosmetically, one hell of a job you do on those


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> Thank you for chiming in Scott.
> 
> I unfortunately do not know what "edge mode termination" means, is theyre a way you can rephrase please and explain how it effects the tweeters performance?


x2

I've been trying to figure it out on my own but luck so far. 
Currently trying to work my way through this http://sound.westhost.com/impedanc.htm


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm really interested in the performance of those rings. I wish I had the the same info or the Alpine pro spx tweeters to compare. Anyway of getting those with the same aluminum housing as the silk ones? Those look nice!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

So I gave the 30mm silks a listening to. Now theyre just hooked up to the hertz passive crossover and the car was tuned to the hertz set so its just to hear them, not hear them in the optimum config.

I use a target curve very similar to Andy's jbl curve with a bit more treble up top.











Here's the 30mm next to the hertz 28mm. I really like the look of them.










I listened to them in the same locations the hertz were in, started with the right and compared r/l.










The hertz sounded much better. As it should. The high end (above 5 k) seemed cut by 6-db or so with the 30mm. The Hertz is more efficient. So I put in both 30mms and went back to a flat eq and bypassed my tuning for the hertz starting new.

I cut 2.5- 5 and added a bit of boost around 12k then moved the tweeter level on the passive to +2. Now we had a decent sounding front stage. 

Tried on axis and sail panels.










Sounded better off axis with the cuts. A tad shouty on axis. Not hard to get my rta curve back when using the same locations as the hertz.

Listening to audiophile recordings like the focal discs they sounded excellent and seemed to add some depth to the vocals and warmth (possible distortion) but they sounded nice. However, those cds can make any tweeters sound good. So I put the ipod on shuffle and did some more tuning. These tweeters are most definitely listenable and I dont feel like I got ripped off. They sound good and the large voice coil seemed to make them seem slightly more powerful and "big" sounding.

So I just installed them semi- permanently just to listen to for a week or so. 

As of now In this passive setup I would say say the hertz sound better but not by a huge amount. These would be 1/3 the price of hertz tweeters anyway. Tuning is the important aspect and unfortunately I dont have an active ability to mes with slopes at the moment. 

So good news is theyre listenable and do not sound bad, bad news is the dont sound as good as the hertz (kinda not fair since Im using the hertz passive)but they do sound different and I do like how the sound. 

Theyre much better than I was expecting after all this graph nonsense. So Ill leave them in for a while.



















*Now yes this is subjective and there is obviously some bias so for some it will mean nothing.

For those people, I just sent the tweets to Bikinpunk today for testing.*

But to me, Im just happy that I was able to get them to sound good using a hertz passive and some tuning. 2.5k seems to be fine for them.

They sound better than a great deal of car audio tweeters Ive used but they do not blow me away initially. However, theyre in now and the stereo sounds very good still.


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

What about buying a similar priced common tweet as a better comparison. It may give your a better perspective of the value. The Hertz seems to be the next tier up.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

cruzinbill said:


> What about buying a similar priced common tweet as a better comparison. It may give your a better perspective of the value. The Hertz seems to be the next tier up.


I really quicky tossed in the polk 3000mm, an old school tweet that was an excellent and expensive tweet and preferred the 30mm but honestly I didnt want to swap both tweets and retune for that test. Its kinda useless for me to keep swapping tweeters with this passive crossover and retuning with subjective thoughts with listener bias even if I am aware of it, Im just happy that they sound good once tuned.

I will say this there is no tweeter available with aluminum casing for anywhere near my projected price of <$100 a pair.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

manish said:


> I'm really interested in the performance of those rings. I wish I had the the same info or the Alpine pro spx tweeters to compare. Anyway of getting those with the same aluminum housing as the silk ones? Those look nice!


Me too, I sent them out for testing. Theyre odd speakers, its looks almost like the diaphragm is touching the grill. I had the alpine spx pros for a while, these are not the same. The dome and phaseplug is completely different. Havent bothered with subjective sound comparison, just sent them out as I got them. They look awesome mounted and it is aluminum casing even though it isnt obvious.

I can customize all I want but then they become more expensive so at this point, lets just have them measured and looked at by someone more experienced. The objective right now is to keep costs down.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hey to the best of ur abilities which tweeters do u prefer, the Hertz/ your new sample or the Alpine? I know u haven't had a chance to really set the samples up. But just your quick opinion.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

manish said:


> Hey to the best of ur abilities which tweeters do u prefer, the Hertz/ your new sample or the Alpine? I know u haven't had a chance to really set the samples up. But just your quick opinion.


Honestly, I wasnt a huge fan of the spx tweets. I had them for a while, just found them unimpressive, tinny, thin. The xt25sc are far superior tweets to them and I preferred them to the alpine.

The Hertz I only had for a month or so and prior I was using the ESB kt6.25/kt6.28 for like 4 years and I prefer them to the hertz or the majority of tweeters. The Hertz are more laid back and smooth sounding, almost seem to add nothing as far as sound signature. Im actually kinda lukewarm on the hertz tweets and prefer the ESB. I like silks that remain bright and dynamic like a good metal dome as compared to a vifa soft dome that just makes everything smooth. The hertz is somewhere between the vifa's smoothness and the ESB's amazing detail.


The 30mms are more aggressive sounding like the ESB tweets but they do not sound the same. The overall size leads to considerable off axis drop off which is fine as you just have to tune them for location. On axis, theyre bright and aggressive but I did not bother retuning to see if I can get a nice response because they will be mounted off axis in my car (dash) and in the sailpanels of most. If you old school DIYMA members remember the Max Fidelity tweeters, thats the closest I can compare the sound to. They have a full sound, opposite the the spx tinny impression I had.

I spent 2 hours listening to music (and drinking) very critically last night. I will tell you this. I would be fine with leaving them in if I didnt have the hertz but the hertz woofer makes me want to keep the set as its excellent. If I was active, Id sell the hertz and buy some nice mids and probably cross these over higher. 

All Im saying is I would have no issue leaving the 30mms in. Some songs came on last night and they sounded phenomenal, Metallica's blackness (one of my testing songs)was full and detailed and sounded great, especially really loud and better than it did with hertz tweets (I think). These sound good loud.

They have potential but required more tuning than most. However, my testing method with the hertz passive is pretty poor so take all this with a grain of salt as its subjective.

The only issue is I found myself adjusting the eq between songs more often but thats just critical listening. They sound better than most inexpensive/mid line car tweets but the seas neos or xt25s would probably be easier to blend in for most but Ill be honest, wasnt very impressed with seas neo silk. I like my 30mms more. Honestly, I was expecting them to sound far worse than they do.

They look awesome. Thats not subjective like the rest of this post.


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## ScottyGreen (Apr 3, 2012)

to OP: When you get these drivers I would have them tested here stateside as well. From personal buying experience with (one) company on Alibaba they will just make up whatever the heck they want to on specs... then try going about getting your money back etc... just a fair warning... I got burned once to the tune of $1200 from a company ON alibaba that had a high "trust factor" and decent rating, and *poof* they vanished completely without a trace. Tried to hunt them down and Alibaba didn't help at all get peoples money back... long story, I'm still obviously a little hot under the collar about it...  My bank couldn't even do anything about it.

Good luck to you though... just thought I'd mention it...


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

ScottyGreen said:


> to OP: When you get these drivers I would have them tested here stateside as well. From personal buying experience with (one) company on Alibaba they will just make up whatever the heck they want to on specs... then try going about getting your money back etc... just a fair warning... I got burned once to the tune of $1200 from a company ON alibaba that had a high "trust factor" and decent rating, and *poof* they vanished completely without a trace. Tried to hunt them down and Alibaba didn't help at all get peoples money back... long story, I'm still obviously a little hot under the collar about it...  My bank couldn't even do anything about it.
> 
> Good luck to you though... just thought I'd mention it...


Yes, Im having them tested by a member here.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

lil update. 3 days and lots of listening time.

I like the 30mms a great deal. They sound very nice. Good tweeters.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Just did some quick tuning and on a hertz passive I was able to get this response way off axis.










Eagerly awaiting test results


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Dang. Not too bad at all.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

If someone would like to try the 25ts or 30ts, I will sell them basically at cost if you give a review. The rest are in bikinpunk's hands.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Yep. Got them yesterday. Can probably throw a quick test together this weekend. I'd rather wait until next week when I get the Klippel.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Lets wait till next week then.....Unless you get bored. 

Thoughts on the appearance and are you as confused by the "ring radiator" as I am?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

That ring radiator looks like garbage. It looks like the grill is touching the dome and on top of that, the grill isn't even symmetrical. Both of those tweeters you sent look the same; the grill is higher on one side than the other. And there's no way it's on purpose to affect response. It honestly looks like they paid a chile to press them in with his thumbs.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> That ring radiator looks like garbage. It looks like the grill is touching the dome and on top of that, the grill isn't even symmetrical. Both of those tweeters you sent look the same; the grill is higher on one side than the other. And there's no way it's on purpose to affect response. It honestly looks like they paid a chile to press them in with his thumbs.



Yeah I didnt understand why they would let the grill touch the diaphragm. And the phase plug is crooked it seems. Thanks for confirming my impression. Gimmicky.

The domes are the ones Im considering. I like the 30mm but as I just uninstalled them I took a close look and saw the paint on the grill was imperfect. Small concern though unlike the grill touching the dome.

Safe to say I wont be ordering the "ring radiator" regardless of results. It just looks like they pressed down on a regular dome with the grill and put the phase plug on for cosmetics. I cant imagine them comparing to the typical xt based tweeter. Its just looks. Like I said, I didnt understand that one. The 28 and 25a are the ones Im curious about.

Feel free to be as critical as you are being. I wouldnt have it any other way.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

I wouldn't be very concerned about the hertz XO having any negative impact on the perfoance results. Automotive XOs don't have shaping networks aside from the occasional zobel, so unless the Fs of the 30mm was way higher than your hertz tweeters, the XO wouldn't cause any trouble.
I'm much more interested.in how they perform without tuning. With eq, you can force most anything to sound decent and have the response curve you want with enough resolution. No tuning shows their natural response. However, for the sails test with something to simulate a baffle as youre introducing a lot of diffraction wroh it mounted like that. Do some measurements od both the 30mm and hertz with no tuning both on and off axis to tell you comparative behavior.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

jsracing said:


> I wouldn't be very concerned about the hertz XO having any negative impact on the perfoance results. Automotive XOs don't have shaping networks aside from the occasional zobel, so unless the Fs of the 30mm was way higher than your hertz tweeters, the XO wouldn't cause any trouble.
> I'm much more interested.in how they perform without tuning. With eq, you can force most anything to sound decent and have the response curve you want with enough resolution. No tuning shows their natural response. However, for the sails test with something to simulate a baffle as youre introducing a lot of diffraction wroh it mounted like that. Do some measurements od both the 30mm and hertz with no tuning both on and off axis to tell you comparative behavior.


_Yes I did that earlier. The hertz sounded much better. As it should. The high end (above 5 k) seemed cut by 6-db or so with the 30mm. The Hertz is more efficient. So I put in both 30mms and went back to a flat eq and bypassed my tuning for the hertz starting new.

I cut 2.5- 5 and added a bit of boost around 12k then moved the tweeter level on the passive to +2. Now we had a decent sounding front stage. _

Bottom line is tuning was required but once done, it sounded good. Lets just see how the plots look. But I remain skeptical and put the hertz back in last night. A much smoother tweeter than the 30mm. I never had a tweeter than didnt need tuning to sound good. Lets just wait on kipple result.


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> That ring radiator looks like garbage. It looks like the grill is touching the dome and on top of that, the grill isn't even symmetrical. Both of those tweeters you sent look the same; the grill is higher on one side than the other. And there's no way it's on purpose to affect response. It honestly looks like they paid a chile to press them in with his thumbs.


We sell some Chinese made comps and coaxials and quite a few sets of the coax soft domes are touching the grill-shame, good speakers if QC was better. Not seen the issue with their ring radiators in the comps. Though have noticed that the phase plug has changed colour from chrome to black chrome.

One thing that I also noticed is that the mid's cone and dustcaps are identical to the Zapco RB16.2 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...3371-fs-rare-esb-zapco-speakers-imported.html


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

The Baron Groog said:


> We sell some Chinese made comps and coaxials and quite a few sets of the coax soft domes are touching the grill-shame, good speakers if QC was better. Not seen the issue with their ring radiators in the comps. Though have noticed that the phase plug has changed colour from chrome to black chrome.
> 
> One thing that I also noticed is that the mid's cone and dustcaps are identical to the Zapco RB16.2
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...3371-fs-rare-esb-zapco-speakers-imported.html


Alpine?

Pretty sure ESB is a buildhouse on its own.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I finally got the test space cleaned up and plan to test some tweeters sometime this week/end. 

So, I have a question for you..
During my testing... do you mind one of each set being a sacrificial tweeter? Typical testing shouldn't hurt them but I'm considering trying to measure Xmax on the Klippel with them but run the risk of blowing a tweeter (simply due to their more delicate nature). It's not a must... but it would go toward showing us the mechanics of the tweeters you sent me. 

LMK what you think.

- Erin


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

game time...






























it's going to take me a while to get them all tested and I don't plan to post any official results until I have them all tested completely. when I do, it'll all be posted on my website (link in sig). I should've been in bed 2 hours ago...


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Cool. Wish I knew what that distortion graph meant. I mean I see all the different orders of distortion but dont know how bad/good it is.

I would prefer you didnt blow the tweeters but Im willing to sacrifice the ring ones to kippel.

If they do test very well or poor, then I may change my mind. But the rings are all yours to play with and blow if you must.

I kinda like the aluminum colored ones. Was hopin to get those back.

Thanks dude


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## doobious62 (Jun 17, 2011)

I would try a pair. I have a Taurus with the tweeter pods and the 30mm looks like it would be a perfect fit.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

send me a pm. I have new 30mm and 25 mm of the black German silks I never sent to bikin

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> Cool. Wish I knew what that distortion graph meant. I mean I see all the different orders of distortion but dont know how bad/good it is.
> 
> I would prefer you didnt blow the tweeters but Im willing to sacrifice the ring ones to kippel.
> 
> ...


Distortion.pdf - Speedy Share - upload your files here 

Staying below 1% distortion is best  
Odd orders (3rd, 5th, 7th, etc...) are said to be more offensive than even order ones. 

Kelvin


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

subwoofery said:


> Distortion.pdf - Speedy Share - upload your files here
> 
> Staying below 1% distortion is best
> Odd orders (3rd, 5th, 7th, etc...) are said to be more offensive than even order ones.
> ...


Although it wasnt english I think that helped.

So we aim for distortion that is at least 40 decibels lower than the response. 

The two dotted blue lines in bikins graph is what I believe illustrates this (correct me if Im wrong)?

What is your opinion on the above graph? Is it reasonable to state that it seems to be acceptable from 2.5k and above?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> Although it wasnt english I think that helped.
> 
> So we aim for distortion that is at least 40 decibels lower than the response.
> 
> What is your opinion on the above graph? Is it reasonable to state that it seems to be acceptable from 2.5k and above?


More like 3kHz-3.5kHz... Would actually like to see the impedance sweep. 

Kelvin


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

So we aim for below the blue dotted line.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> So we aim for below the blue dotted line.


Yep... 

Kelvin


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

first test is complete and up:
Alibaba 28mm Tweeter with Black Flange Testing | Medley's Musings


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> first test is complete and up:
> Alibaba 28mm Tweeter with Black Flange Testing | Medley's Musings


So much information. Thanks. Really appreciate that fr on/off axis as its the one I fully understand.

If not too much to ask, Id appreciate a little blurb about the results as in what was outstandingly poor or good and what was average as Im no where near as familiar with these graphs and what they represent. 

"such as high distortion, poor response, impedance plot looks average" . Even if they completely sucked, were meh, or good, Id like you to let me/us know.

If they suck so bad its embarrassing, id still like you to say your viewpoint.

I really do appreciate this. Even if its from onlookers who understand all the graphs well.

Couple results from his page


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I've posted a link regarding tweeter testing on my site in preparation for the testing. If you go here you can read through it and get a good idea of what some of the data means. 
http://medleysmusings.com/tweeter-testing-coming-soon/

Also, read the application notes I've linked under the results headings in the test results. You'll find good information there regarding the test. I posted these papers specifically so people can learn as I go and learn with me as a community effort. 

Outside if that, I'll comment on what I can later.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I updated my initial post with some analysis. Hope this helps. 

- Erin


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> I updated my initial post with some analysis. Hope this helps.
> 
> - Erin


That was very helpful. Ill pass on this driver. Looking forward to the aluminum colored ones. 

You really dont have to bother with the rings unless you want to.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I probably won't then.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> I probably won't then.


Thats fine. Just curious about the other dome. 

Unless those show an significant improvement in performance, Im scrapping the whole idea and selling them at cost.

This is a nice lesson on how looks and published specs are deceiving. Plus I appreciate the blurbs, very helpful in my understanding of the graphs. 

On the other hand, I planned on selling these for 75 a pair or so so Im curious how they would stand up against mid-upper ranged liked car audio tweeters such as rainbows or image dynamic. I was pretty sure they wouldnt hold their own vs scanspeak.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Shared the differences with the company. They have no idea 


_Hi Harry, 

Thank you very much for your information. 
Engineers will review them carefully. 

By the way, when we test the tweeter, we move the grill away . It will get more real testing data. 
Have a good night ! 

Best regards, 
Sophie 
________________________________________
Sophie Guo
Guangzhou Huiyin Audio Co., Ltd. 

T: +86 020 39909696 | F: 86 020 34636367 
M: +86-13538859743 
Skype: sophie--huiyin.audio
MSN: [email protected]
E: [email protected]
W: Guangzhou Huiyin Audio Co., Ltd. - Speaker, Loudspeaker, Car Speaker , 
Guangzhou Huiyin Audio Co., Ltd. - Speaker, Loudspeaker, Car Speaker 

_


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> _By the way, when we test the tweeter, we move the grill away . It will get more real testing data. _


 
Even if this is true, and I have no idea one way or another, they would most likely get used WITH the grills on so their "real testing data" is not real world testing data.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Memphis gets subs from them.










Lets just say $25 a 15" is decent profit according to what they price it as.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

tyroneshoes said:


> ...
> 
> By the way, when we test the tweeter, we move the grill away . It will get more real testing data.


That is all sorts of ridiculous. Number one, if it's "more real", then why have a grill at all? You're testing a final product. 
Not a final product with a conditional statement. 
Why not sell it without a grill if it's more real to test without it? 
Bottom line is that a driver should be tested as it is sold unless there is some situation that might necessitate testing another way. In this case, there is no such reason.


Number two, *they admit to providing non-"real" data* by telling you the above. Makes you wonder if they employ similar tactics to test other products...


Based on that sentence of the reply alone, I would not do business with them.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> That is all sorts of ridiculous. Number one, if it's "more real", then why have a grill at all? You're testing a final product.
> Not a final product with a conditional statement.
> Why not sell it without a grill if it's more real to test without it?
> Bottom line is that a driver should be tested as it is sold unless there is some situation that might necessitate testing another way. In this case, there is no such reason.
> ...


I know. All of her replies were suspect just like the changing fr plots she sent and the listen with you ears" stuff. Honestly, the 30mm ones didnt sound bad at 2.5 12db using the hertz crossover but the off axis dropoff was probably even worse than the 28mm model you tested. It required significant eq.

They tell me the aluminum one is used in a "known high end brand" but cased in aluminum and was the most expensive so, Im just curious at this point. Some basic tests on the alum 25mms would be cool, but scrap the "rings" for sure. No need to waste your time. 

But if youd like a woofer to test or any speakers just let me know, I have lots laying around.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I should be able to test the other dome tweeters this weekend.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Wow disappointing news...:-(


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

This is going to be quick and dirty. I honestly have other stuff I would rather focus efforts on so I'm not even posting the results of the 25mm silver flange on my site. This is the data I would post there... I'm just not posting it because I don't want to have to spend an hour doing a write up. I'm lazy. 































Zoomed in image of the HD posted above:


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Ring Radiator Data....


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> This is going to be quick and dirty. I honestly have other stuff I would rather focus efforts on so I'm not even posting the results of the 25mm silver flange on my site. This is the data I would post there... I'm just not posting it because I don't want to have to spend an hour doing a write up. I'm lazy.


This one seems to test even worse than than the other.

Much higher distortion and a peak at 10 thats unavoidable.

Should be 3.5-4k min highpass

Still not a good choice for 3 way due to the peak. 

Am I reading this right bikinpunk?

Would you say these are even worse?

anything in particular stand out as horrible or decent? I see better off axis performance as the only positive thing, everything else seems worse.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

And the ring is even worse (as expected).

Make me curious how some midline car audio tweeters would test

Thanks a lot for this. Its a shame that this couldnt turn into what I hoped. I obvioulsy wont be buying bulk or dealing with this company. Cosmetics are nice though. 

bottom line is you do get what you pay for (in most cases) and China is the wild wild west of tweeters.

One thing I can assure you is they didnt sound bad hooked up to the hertz passive.

And if anyone wants them you can have them at the cost I paid between 47-75 a pair (depending on the model)

I myself will keep the aluminum color tweeters, rip it apart and stuff a vifa in there for a nice looking and sounding set. Should be an interesting project.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

this is really where you see the benefit of having a lower Fs. It's not just so you can cross lower, it's so you can lessen the distortion at a moderate crossover point. while they should go hand in hand, it seems people just think a lower crossover point is better to mate a driver with and neglect the potential for higher distortion. 

the suspension is likely the culprit of the THD makeup (as shown by the large 2nd order component). this component is always prevalent at Fs and rolls off at about 12dB/octave below (and increases about the same above). The higher the Fs, the less time you have for the distortion due to this factor to become less apparent by the typical crossover range for a tweeter. 

could be other causes here, but without LSI measurements there's no way to say for sure. I plan to play around with SIM a bit, though, to see if I can figure some of the issues out.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I understood that  . Thanks for taking the time.


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## takeabao (Jul 18, 2005)

I read this thread from start to finish, post-by-post, and want to thank everyone involved.

This sorta stuff is what brings DIYMA back to its "roots".


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