# Why not the miniDSP 2x4?



## jcush87 (Jul 9, 2014)

I am probably going to add a DSP to my setup in the next few months, and I have been reading about them quite a bit. I am pretty new to the concept though and have a question. What is the benefit of buying a DSP that costs $500+ when you can get the miniDSP 2x4 for $115 or so? Or you can get 2 of them to have 8 outputs. It seems like one of the most versatile DSPs on the market. The only downside I can see is .9Vrms output, but with a very low noise floor, this shouldn't matter too much.

So what am I missing?


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

I am using them. I have no issues so far. On higher end dsps, you get options of nice power supplies, multi outputs/inputs, factory integration, in a nice case. That can make install easier. The higher voltage out can be a plus too. However, when you are on a budget, the minidsp gets the job done. I am much happier with my $100 active front stage, than my passive <$400 front stages I've had in the past. Mini dsp can also be a good stepping stone into tuning. You pick them up for a few bucks. Then you can learn to tune and If you feel the need, upgrade in the future.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

I used to be a big proponent of passives but MiniDSP kinda ruined that for me. It's cheap, it's easy.

I've purchased three of them and the only reason I don't buy more is that I'm getting to a point where I'm starting to dream up projects that could use eight outputs instead of four.

I guess if I had to come up with a gripe, there's no easy way to combine inputs. I haven't found a plugin that can take two stereo inputs and turn it into a mono output. And that's a p.i.t.a. if you're using a MiniDSP for subs.


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## XR250rdr (Mar 22, 2011)

Patrick Bateman said:


> I used to be a big proponent of passives but MiniDSP kinda ruined that for me. It's cheap, it's easy.
> 
> I've purchased three of them and the only reason I don't buy more is that I'm getting to a point where I'm starting to dream up projects that could use eight outputs instead of four.
> 
> I guess if I had to come up with a gripe, there's no easy way to combine inputs. I haven't found a plugin that can take two stereo inputs and turn it into a mono output. And that's a p.i.t.a. if you're using a MiniDSP for subs.


https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-2x4 advanced plug-in.pdf

Looks to me like the 2x4 Advanced can sum inputs to any of the outputs. Or am I missing something?


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

It doesn't sum i/o. Not the 2way Adv or the 4way Adv, at least. The minidsp 2x4 is an excellent dsp otherwise, using them as well...


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

There is a downside to two Mini's at once. Lots o RCA's. Or y splitters if using one rca from HU. But really I'm reaching. They are fantastic. No real downside for the price. I am currently using two 2x4's in my work truck.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

If you are buying two, might as well just go with the C-DSP 6x8.


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## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

fourthmeal said:


> If you are buying two, might as well just go with the C-DSP 6x8.


*That is what I was thinking, but it is really a 4 channel in as far as I can see. So I'm not sure why it is being called a 6. Am I missing something?*


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## muzikmanwi (Dec 25, 2014)

Aaron Clinton said:


> *That is what I was thinking, but it is really a 4 channel in as far as I can see. So I'm not sure why it is being called a 6. Am I missing something?*


I think it's because it also has digital input along with analog.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Aaron Clinton said:


> *That is what I was thinking, but it is really a 4 channel in as far as I can see. So I'm not sure why it is being called a 6. Am I missing something?*


I agree that it is a 4 input but my guess is they are counting the digital in as the other 2 ins.

And I would also have to throw out the MiniDSP 2x4 HD as being a viable option since it has the much more powerful DSP. I'm thinking of combining a few of the 2x4 HDs with the APL1 several in this thread have been using and making others spend way more money than they originally planned. . Would be interested to know if the 2x4 HD could sum to a mono channel as desired.


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## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*There is the option to just by pass it for 5/6 (sub) I guess.*


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Yeah regarding the 6x8, which I've used now and become VERY familiar with, I had zero issue in getting a mono signal to the sub. all inputs can be summed, that's a very easy thing to do. You must remember, the 6x8 is really the PPI / Soundstream high-end processor, and as such it is a beast. Hooking up to REW by importing biquads directly, shoot man I've solved crazy problems with it. I have a video of it in use if you think it would help. I've even done input biquad work along with output, in effect cascading the filters to get rid of a particularly pesky peak in my response.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

The 2x4 is good, but NOISY! Has only .9v max so it's really like .5v your gains will have to be so high. 

I would go for a pair of 2x4hd there the same thing but with better sample rate FIR processing and 2v out. 

They had problems the new firmware is solid. I have 4 of them and love them now


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

oabeieo said:


> The 2x4 is good, but NOISY! Has only .9v max so it's really like .5v your gains will have to be so high.
> 
> I would go for a pair of 2x4hd there the same thing but with better sample rate FIR processing and 2v out.
> 
> They had problems the new firmware is solid. I have 4 of them and love them now


Yep. Mine would be unusable if they were connected to my car battery. (I'm running mine on a cel phone battery.)


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Yep. Mine would be unusable if they were connected to my car battery. (I'm running mine on a cel phone battery.)


Do you have the power supply? I have no noise, cheap rcas and my gains are turnt up.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

upgrayedd said:


> Do you have the power supply? I have no noise, cheap rcas and my gains are turnt up.


Yes we use the minidc , You have a very good sn ratio and some sort of luck going on with ground loops. 

The JLHD amps have no noise on them but every other amp ive used with them have had noise. 


Also the 2x4hd has optical in if ever wanted to use it. 
For 205$ it's very fun. And it's sums whatever input you want .


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Yeah! I definitely agree with the .9v. I forgot about that. I don't really have a noise "issue" but it's there ever so slightly.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Theslaking said:


> Yeah! I definitely agree with the .9v. I forgot about that. I don't really have a noise "issue" but it's there ever so slightly.


Am I missing something? My minidsp 2x4 is 2V output. There is a switch on the board between .9V and 2V. Maybe I have a newer one than the rest of you.


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> Yes we use the minidc , You have a very good sn ratio and some sort of luck going on with ground loops.
> 
> The JLHD amps have no noise on them but every other amp ive used with them have had noise.
> 
> ...


I have a 17 year old mtx amp. and some pretty basic wiring. Ironically, the same head unit and amp had a hair of ground loop issue in my previous car....Both were better than when i ran all adcom.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

upgrayedd said:


> Do you have the power supply? I have no noise, cheap rcas and my gains are turnt up.


I don't, I just use one of those cel phone battery thinks from Anker.

It's handy because two of my devices run on 5V: my phone and my MiniDSP.

So the battery pack isn't just for the minidsp, it also keeps the phone from introducing noise into the system. (I use my phone as a source, i'm hi-fidelity like that.)


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Zippy said:


> Am I missing something? My minidsp 2x4 is 2V output. There is a switch on the board between .9V and 2V. Maybe I have a newer one than the rest of you.


Maybe I'm missing something. I've had one more than a year and the other less. Mine are in a box. Maybe there is a switch I don't know about?


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

Zippy said:


> Am I missing something? My minidsp 2x4 is 2V output. There is a switch on the board between .9V and 2V. Maybe I have a newer one than the rest of you.


The output is .9 the switch on the 2x4 is for the input


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

The 6x8 has 2V out, the isolated DC / DC parts inside, and a remote. I can see the advantage in the HD version with FIR filtering, but without that I don't see the advantage in going with a pair of regular 2x4's over the 6x8. Also, why the need for so many in? I just put two in, and hash out all the input/output switches so I get a left, a right, and a summed output for what I need. The thing can't do center so the 6x8 is out if you need that, but if you don't... I can't see any reason not to grab it except to go with FIR abilities. But am I missing something?


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

The 2x4 HD can also impart much more delay, about 80 ms of delay I believe, which some that have used the APL1 time domain equalizer suggested would be better than the less powerful regular MiniDSP 2x4.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> Yes we use the minidc , You have a very good sn ratio and some sort of luck going on with ground loops.
> 
> The JLHD amps have no noise on them but every other amp ive used with them have had noise.
> 
> ...


I have used a 2x4 with the mini dc isolator and some cheap PPI ion amps for over a year now and have zero noise even with the gains on the amp turned up high. Every component in the chain (even the HU) is all powered and grounded from the same points via distro blocks, and the wiring throughout the truck's charging system is way overkill so I think that contributes to the results. I have tried putting a preamp on the front L/R channels for the front stage, but honestly there wasn't any noticeable difference between the two once the gain was matched, and I ended up removing the preamp to simplify the system.


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

My dsp is also right by my amp using 12" rcas. That may help with noise.


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## Ziggyrama (Jan 17, 2016)

MiniDSP is "pretty good for the money". It has its place in the market and fulfills the role. In general, you typically pay more for other DSPs due to higher cost of components and development cycles. The pricing is not linear. $200 gets you to some level, then to get next 10% you need to double the money and so on and so forth. I didn't open one up but I am willing to bet if you were to do it and compare it to a mosconi or helix, you will find better caps, ICs, more copper in more expensive units. That is what you pay for. Also, common occurrence, cheaper units have higher failure rate, since the producer wants better yield in factory to lower the cost. Some of the cost reduction can be legitimate, for example, MiniDSP's software is developed in Asia most likely while mosconi probably has software people in Italy (guessing). You pay 25% of the money in Asia that you'd have to spend in Europe, arguably with comparable quality. I say arguably since I have seen that go sideways too (I work in heavily outsourced industry). Anyways, long story short, it is good for the money and if it fits your needs, you should use it. But, don't kid yourself it is as good as some other units like Helix, Mosconi, Zapco. No such thing as free lunch.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

upgrayedd said:


> The output is .9 the switch on the 2x4 is for the input


It is the input that is switchable. Which makes sense for home/car audio use.


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## jcush87 (Jul 9, 2014)

It seems like some have noise issues due to the low pre out and others do not.
Has anybody used the 2x4 Balanced in car audio?
It has jumper selectable 2V/4V outputs. even if you are using half the balanced output with the 4V setting you still are getting 2V output right?

for $20 more it looks like a decent option. a bit more wiring involved though.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I've heard some amps pre buffer a signal and its basicly a ground loop isolator built in 

Maybe those amps are the ones with no noise . Just a guess . 

Think it was a kicker rep that told me that , ICR


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

What do you consider as noisy guys?
With the 6x8 and with or without the 2x4 I have the same noise, but it seems minor, nothing more than previous ms8 and less than 2xms8 for example.
Audible and only annoying when tuning in fact (when playing with the laptop for a long time), but nothing I could hear while driving.
Muted and it's almost inaudible though.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Elgrosso said:


> What do you consider as noisy guys?
> With the 6x8 and with or without the 2x4 I have the same noise, but it seems minor, nothing more than previous ms8 and less than 2xms8 for example.
> Audible and only annoying when tuning in fact (when playing with the laptop for a long time), but nothing I could hear while driving.
> Muted and it's almot inaudible though.


Noisy=ANY amount of whine or hiss (usually engine whine) that's audible at low or no volume.


Yes it's minor but it's still there .


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

oabeieo said:


> Noisy=ANY amount of whine or hiss (usually engine whine) that's audible at low or no volume.
> 
> 
> Yes it's minor but it's still there .


Ok thx, I carefully check yesterday, it's totally engine/volume independant and really minor.
But still there, maybe I'll try to fix this once everything is tuned, or maybe not.


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