# Stereo Integrity TM65 Objective and Subjective results



## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

IT IS ALIVE!!! I know a few people here have been following my re-build, and I just want to say that it is in and playing. And now, on to the really cool part!

STEREO INTEGRITY TM65 Midbass/midrange. I was fortunate enough to get THE (one and only) prototype set of these drivers for some evaluation. Now that I got the car playing this past weekend, I got these drivers in, and did some very slight tuning tonight. I must say, these things ROCK. I haven't beat on them TOO hard (They are Nick's only prototype set), and I've only done light tuning on them, but the amount of detail and control that these drivers have at lower frequencies is astounding. They are rated at 9mm Xmax, and still have (IIRC) 85% motor strength at over 5.5mm. This is usually only found in very high end drivers, and one main factor of higher end drivers, is still having almost all of the motor force at higher excursions.

I am still evaluating these, as I am just getting them tuned in, but I must say that I am thoroughly impressed. One thing that was my main concern of these drivers, is I was not sure that I would want these in a 2-way setup. Looking at the initial graphs, they looked like they wouldn't have much output above 1k or so. Having a 3 way front and a full processor, I knew that I would be using them solely as a midbass, and this wasn't a deciding factor for me. I have not got to do any RTA measurements with them in car yet, however I muted my midrange, and lowered my tweeter crossover from 7k down to 2k and brought up the TM65's crossover likewise. Much to my surprise, they had absolutely no problem playing up that high. I decided to do some quick listening tests, and playing around with different crossover points, I learned that they would (with no EQ boosting) play up with the tweeter crossing over at 3k with no problem. With the tweeter at 3.5k, it was pushing it, and with the tweeters crossed over at 4k, there was some slight information starting to get lost. I was also using LR crossovers, where the driver is at -6db at the crossover point, instead of the -3db on BW filters, so this could have played a factor as well, but seeing how they would play up to 3k easily, I decided not to test it with BW filters, as most any reputable tweeter can play down to 3 or 3.5k.

I was very hesitant to recommend these in a 2 way front stage setup, however, after listening and testing, I would have no problem whatsoever using these in a 2 way front stage. I will get out the RTA and see exactly what is going on in vehicle soon, however the preliminary listening tests are going very well. So far the only downside I have found, (and is a slight one) is that with large female spade connectors and insulators, they stick out a good bit and make the driver difficult to fit width-wise, as they are slightly larger than the baffle cutout. This won't be an issue for me, as I will solder on my speaker wires, and wont have oversized spade connectors on there. I would even be willing to bet, with the proper size connectors, it probably still won't be an issue, as the only ones I had on hand were the large yellow ones. I can't wait to get my finished production set in and really hammer on these things. But so far, I may have a new favorite 6.5" driver. Ability to play up to 3k cleanly in car, 9mm Xmax in a XBL^2 motor, AND only 2.3" deep. I will post up when I learn more after more testing and more listening.

The set of drivers in the photo is from left to right: SB17NRX - TM65 - Silver Flute 6.5.


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

So far, I haven't noticed any distortion that stuck out when I was testing the upper end extension, but I'll be doing some more listening and testing today and this weekend


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for posting your initial review!


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Very nice, can't wait to hear these myself.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

They are great looking driver - great heft in your hand, I wish I had the chance to listen to them.......just a wee bit too wide OD in my rings or I could had a the fun experience you are having ? Enjoy! Thanks for your impressions - especially your comments on their 2-way capability. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

Nice review -- I think these will be a big hit for Nick once people see / hear what they are capable of. They are a deal @ the price being offered as well.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

What is the off-axis response like?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> What is the off-axis response like?



^ That and how would you compare them to the SB mid next to it?

Nice write up!


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok, first to answer peoples response's. 

BayBoy, I have some actual in vehicle response measurements, at the drivers headrest, as off axis as they will likely be, unless you have them playing towards the firewall or something crazy.

Babs - Compared to the SB, I believe the SB has slightly less distortion in the midrange. However, with that being said, the SI definitely has not only more low end output, but more control in the lower frequencies. It should be noted also that these are prototype drivers, one I know being built completely by hand, and not broken in, so that can play a large factor into the midrange clarity for sure, and I will re-test when I have my production drivers in hand, that I have already ordered.

On to the first part of the Objective part of the review, as I promised. Not much to talk about here, as it's hard data in the form of RTA readings. However, HOLY COW. I talked to Nick and he told me to open these things up, and man, what a surprise! As you can see from the graph below, these things have NO problem getting down in car. I actually had to bring the crossover of the TM65's UP, as they had TOO MUCH low end authority (Definitely not a problem, as this was a nice surprise). I had my sub at [email protected], and the TM65's at [email protected] I brought them up to [email protected], and I was still EQ'ing the 40, 50, and 63 eq bands DOWN. I don't know what Nick recommends, but I feel these things have the output to be ran without a sub. Obviously I didn't go playing Royals at full volume with the allpass filter on, as these aren't mine, but man, what a nice surprise!

As far as the midrange dips and peaks go:

PLEASE NOTE!!! The following reading were taken in MY car, with MY install, with MY stock mounting locations (Will provide a pic later if I don't have one on file). The 800hz midrange dip can easily be a product of my car, and the graphs is more to show the upper and lower end limits, again, in my vehicle. YOUR RESULTS WILL VARY vehicle and install depending.










This is where my factory mounting locations are, at the very front bottom of my doors. Again, this is probably about as far off axis as you would find in most cars. Still, you can see from the graph above, that they easily play up past 2k, and a tweeter crossover of 3k would play nicely like this, as shown in my subjective listening tests.










Now, off to bed. Some more tuning and listening done. Let me know what you guys think.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Wow!!! The response down to Fs is ridiculous! The upper end for the axis in your doors is very workable. Makes me ponder why did I even order the NSW2 to pair with it. Making me anxious to receive it. Thanks for the measurement & time! :thumbsup:


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Damn that low end response is STRONG!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I see a serious 3-way contender for the Tacoma if I can squeeze some small mids in stock tweeter spots now I'm over any fears of doing sail panels. Heck I might have to move in a DSP for the extra channels and do a set in both doors. Lots of CLD, CCF, MLV appropriate I think. That's gonna be a fun project. My wife's gonna kill me. 

Hmm. Maybe also rear-deck duty and be blasphemous in my Si Sedan even. I shoulda jumped on the pre-sale. I needed a bench power supply though. Darn it. 

Nice Subaru Kyle!


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

Bayboy said:


> Wow!!! The response down to Fs is ridiculous! The upper end for the axis in your doors is very workable. Makes me ponder why did I even order the NSW2 to pair with it. Making me anxious to receive it. Thanks for the measurement & time! :thumbsup:


No problem! And yeah, the upper and lower end response makes this a great driver for almost any build needing 6.5" drivers.



Architect7 said:


> Damn that low end response is STRONG!


Yeah, that low end is amazing, can't believe I had to raise the crossover and still lower the eq in the bass region. Dang impressive. 



Babs said:


> I see a serious 3-way contender for the Tacoma if I can squeeze some small mids in stock tweeter spots now I'm over any fears of doing sail panels. Heck I might have to move in a DSP for the extra channels and do a set in both doors. Lots of CLD, CCF, MLV appropriate I think. That's gonna be a fun project. My wife's gonna kill me.
> 
> Hmm. Maybe also rear-deck duty and be blasphemous in my Si Sedan even. I shoulda jumped on the pre-sale. I needed a bench power supply though. Darn it.
> 
> Nice Subaru Kyle!


Make those sails happen! And yeah, I would definitely button up the doors.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks for posting up the review and your measurements. I've worked a little with the Dyn Esotar 6.5 in the doors of this car (Subaru Legacy) and did not get low frequency response like that on the RTA out of the box from the doors. These look to be really impressive.
I pre-ordered a pair a few months back for the wife's car and these should make an excellent pairing with the Scan mid/tweet I'm installing with these as a dedicated midbass. I'm even more excited to get them in hand and installed now


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Great writeup. Interested to see how you continue to like them. I am anxiously awaiting my own to start doing a review. I too was worried as some of my teeter selections that I want to try with them in two way setups would have issues if I ask them to play much below 2800hz. Your results are very promising. 

I really didn't want to turn down Nicks offer to use the prototypes but didn't want to hurt them. Now I wish I would have accepted. LOL
Oh well, the production units are not far off now. 

What I really like is these will allow me to remove the thick MDF spacer I currently use which will allow my door card to fit better. With the door card slightly touching the MDF spacer if a song has too much kick around 80hz it still vibrates my door locks and handles. LOL


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

On production models the small null at/around 500 Hz will be fixed. The production cone and dust cap treatments should help with the upper FR rise at/near 3k. I'll take measurements once I build the first few production units. And Kyle will get a production pair to replace his prototypes.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

When is the preorder over? Been out of the game for a while and going to start getting a few things on the way soon.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

spyders03 said:


> Ok, first to answer peoples response's.
> 
> BayBoy, I have some actual in vehicle response measurements, at the drivers headrest, as off axis as they will likely be, unless you have them playing towards the firewall or something crazy.
> 
> ...


Awesome Kyle. Thanks for posting your FR and your further listening results. After reading your review I called Mark Worrell and we are going to install my pair of TM65's in the door IB, not ported like I had planned. And yes, I'm going to have the subwoofers on a switch so I can turn them on and off. The FR down to 45 Hz is really impressive and very exciting. 

JoeHemi, pre-order will last until the parts show up (late this month). As soon as the parts arrive pre-order will be over.


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

May I ask what amp and wattage you were using in testing this awesome 6 1/2?


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

45? Maybe they should be renamed TM:45hz


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

WhiteL02 said:


> May I ask what amp and wattage you were using in testing this awesome 6 1/2?


I have a PPI Phantom 600.2 on each one (and each of my other speakers for that matter). Still don't think I could thermal the 6 layer coils he put in these things! They take every bit of the amp and don't complain at all


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

rxonmymind said:


> 45? Maybe they should be renamed TM:45hz


Speaking of the bottom end, I have gotten in my production set of drivers, i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz). 

I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes  . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil  , etc etc).


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Sounds great! Can't wait to hear my pair coming. What were you crossover points on 6.5" and tweeters? Trying to figure out what tweeter to match up with this beast.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

So am I reading the graph right? In your particular car/system, you could arguably go to 2.5K then have a tweeter take up the rest in a 2-way, assuming one has a tweeter that would cope starting its duties at 2.5K?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Damn I might have to get a pair of these little beasts to play around with. And since I liked my encounter with the original Mag v3 one of the new ones might be nice to fill the bottom end. Nick, I applaud the direction you've gone for us diy people. The tm65 looks like it would be "the right tool for the job".


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

sirbOOm said:


> So am I reading the graph right? In your particular car/system, you could arguably go to 2.5K then have a tweeter take up the rest in a 2-way, assuming one has a tweeter that would cope starting its duties at 2.5K?


I am wondering the same thing. That and how the **** did I miss this thread before the preorder ended?


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## Iamsmuts (May 24, 2015)

The SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 look like a good match. 

Anyone else running these 6.5's?


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

Iamsmuts said:


> The SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 look like a good match.
> 
> Anyone else running these 6.5's?


I'm about to test a few SB tweeters, but those aren't one of them, still, I'll try and share my results


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Iamsmuts said:


> The SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 look like a good match.
> 
> Anyone else running these 6.5's?


I'm running the SB's (NVX version) crossed 2434hz 12db with absolutely no problem. Definitely a low-reacher for 2-ways mated to the TM65's.. I wish I had done the TM's rather than the SB17 (NVX version) mids I think. While the SB mids are very very good, the TM I suspect would really fill in the lower mid area on my measurements better to blend in with the sub. 

So plan is still if I abandon a 2-way, to go with a TM65, scan mid/tweet up top, so I might do the mids first since they'll mate so good, I'm confident, with the SB tweeter. IF I don't get silly and do the ZR's in the kicks and quit playing around in the doors.


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## Iamsmuts (May 24, 2015)

Babs said:


> I'm running the SB's (NVX version) crossed 2434hz 12db with absolutely no problem. Definitely a low-reacher for 2-ways mated to the TM65's.. I wish I had done the TM's rather than the SB17 (NVX version) mids I think. While the SB mids are very very good, the TM I suspect would really fill in the lower mid area on my measurements better to blend in with the sub.
> 
> So plan is still if I abandon a 2-way, to go with a TM65, scan mid/tweet up top, so I might do the mids first since they'll mate so good, I'm confident, with the SB tweeter. IF I don't get silly and do the ZR's in the kicks and quit playing around in the doors.


Good to know.

I probably should have got the NVXs. The grills look nice and they are $20 cheaper a pair. . . . 

How low are your SB17s crossed? Looks like they drop off a little above 100.

I was looking at the SB17s. I worried a bit about power handling. Have you heard the flutes? If so, how do the SB17s compare? The flutes looks to do much better below 100 on paper. They roll off at 50.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Iamsmuts said:


> Good to know.
> 
> I probably should have got the NVXs. The grills look nice and they are $20 cheaper a pair. . . .
> 
> ...


Yeah the flanges and grills look great I think on the NVX version.
My 17's (NVX XSP65) are also at 2434hz @ 12db.. No issues at all between the two drivers. 

The 17's are delivering all the way up to the tweeters in door. They are leveled at 0 and -.5 db in the helix, basically wide open, compared to -16 to -17.25 db (heavily attenuated) for the tweeters. The tweeters are up high, on-axis and powered by the other two channels of the same amp, so to be expected they have to be cut by a large margin. 

Truthfully, I should pull in the PDX amp, run tweets off 100w channels, use the other channels for rears (if I install), and bridge the NVX 125x4 into 400x2 for the SB mids and give it a go. I suspect it'd level out more. The PDX "might" (unconfirmed) be cleaner also for tweeter duty.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I recently installed the TM65's in my car, and I thought I would add these impressions to Kyle's review. I put them in a couple weeks ago, and they just keep on getting better as they get some time on them. 

From my build thread: 

"I had a good discussion with my friend Ryan today as I was driving. We discussed the differences in performance between the Thesis drivers and the Stereo Integrity TM65's and the use of the word 'upgrade'. 

He pointed out that I'm that guy.....who typically gravitates to the flagship type products......my particular psychosis, "if I get the middle tier, I'll always wonder what the top tier sounded like". So yes, from that perspective, it was an odd thing to see my post to someone who knows me and has followed my audio 'journey'. 

I of course discussed the differences between the drivers with Nick in the past, and I had a good discussion with Erin a couple months ago about these drivers. I wasn't sure if when I put them in....I would say, "those are nice - a bit more mid bass" or possibly, "increase in mid bass, but a bit of a drop of 'quality' on the upper portions of the bass tones - towards the top of the bandpass that I'm using them....just doesn't have that quality that the Thesis provides"......

Well....what I AM saying (so far) - incredible performance! An extreme increase in mid bass output that is amazingly clean and accurate. And despite my handicaps (blocked left ear and listening while driving on the freeway), there is certainly no drop in quality on the upper end (low pass of 315 hertz at 24db). 

So, now a few details. 

Amplifier = Mosconi Zero 3: 270x2 @ 4 ohms; 520x2 @ 2 ohms Mos Zero 3

Thesis = 6 ohm drivers - I've always had a bit of a bias with these drivers - never looked them as mid bass drivers, but mostly a 6.5" mid range. John (minibox) stated they were monsters in his X3 with an extremely good install in his doors. Thesis Sax

SI TM65 = Wired at 2 ohm SI TM65

Our initial listening was with the tune exactly as it was with the Thesis drivers. Nick encouraged me to turn it up to let them run. He also encouraged me to experiment with a little less conservative crossover point/slope. 

I had the Thesis high passed at 80hz @ 24db slope, and we immediately moved the TM65's down to 12db slope, and then down to 63hz at 12db. The only difference from 80hz/24db and 63hz/12db was gobs more clean, impactful mid bass sound. 

He then encouraged me to mute the sub and try the TM65's without a high pass filter set. This was a bit scary to do at volume, but the drivers were not scared at all - they just did it with aplomb. 

So, for the 6+ hours that I drove today, I had the sub muted most of the time, and played just the TM65's with the tweets/mid range. I usually had them playing with 63hz/12db and many times I let them play without a high pass filter. I was extremely impressed with their performance - clean, articulate with no sense of strain / struggle. 

Tuning changes were only crossover point / slope of the mid bass, and a corresponding change of point on the sub. Even though my sub is up front, I do feel that I'm getting good benefits of greater mid bass output from the door speakers in my overall bass presentation. I didn't change EQ or T/A, and I was happy to hear the male voices were perfectly (despite my handicaps) centered and in synergy with the tweets and mid range. I didn't hear anything in the tune that was screaming that the mid bass drivers must have changed because things are not right. 

So....when stating possible 'upgrade' - a quick note there (nearly disclaimer). 

* I went from a 6ohm to a 2ohm driver, so there was greater output of the amplifier. 
*I was able to change the crossover point to a slightly lower point, and changed the slope from 24db to 12db - gaining more output. 
*I also feel I have more output of the sub even though I moved the point from 50hz @ 12db to 40hz @ 12db - clean, tight sound that blends very well with the TM65's. 
*I was concerned that with the possibility of greater excursion I, would end up having a ton of rattles / resonance from the door panels, but there not many, so that pleased me. 

Ok....I can barely keep my eyes open and fingers moving.....this was supposed to be a post saying, "they kick butt", but of course I couldn't just say that.....I had to go on, and on......but they do kick butt."


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bertholomey said:


> I recently installed the TM65's in my car, and I thought I would add these impressions to Kyle's review. I put them in a couple weeks ago, and they just keep on getting better as they get some time on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey mate, great review of the TM65s. Did you ever try these TM65s in 8 ohm configuration? I'll be receiving a pair shortly and I'm trying to decide whether to configure them in 8 ohms or 2 ohms. I'll be using 2 channels from my Mosconi AS200.4 to power them. I'll be running these in a 3way setup with a pair of Audible Physics NZ3as and Focal TN53K tweeters


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

mechatron said:


> Hey mate, great review of the TM65s. Did you ever try these TM65s in 8 ohm configuration? I'll be receiving a pair shortly and I'm trying to decide whether to configure them in 8 ohms or 2 ohms. I'll be using 2 channels from my Mosconi AS200.4 to power them. I'll be running these in a 3way setup with a pair of Audible Physics NZ3as and Focal TN53K tweeters


I didn't try them configured in 8 ohm, but that would be an excellent way to wire them with that powerful AS200.4. In your set up, they could also do well with them wired at 2 ohm - 320 x 2 - set the gain correctly, and then level match in the DSP - these would work beautifully in that configuration. Great choice on the AP NZ's and Focal tweets!


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bertholomey said:


> I didn't try them configured in 8 ohm, but that would be an excellent way to wire them with that powerful AS200.4. In your set up, they could also do well with them wired at 2 ohm - 320 x 2 - set the gain correctly, and then level match in the DSP - these would work beautifully in that configuration. Great choice on the AP NZ's and Focal tweets!



Hey mate thanks for the reply. I'm thinking I'll wire them up in 2 ohms as my current KRX2 mids are 2 ohms as well. And yes I'm dying to find out what my new combination sounds like...it sure is an interesting combo


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## mrgreenjeans71 (Jun 14, 2010)

Have you installed these yet? IB like you were saying. If there's a link i'd appreciate it.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

mrgreenjeans71 said:


> Have you installed these yet? IB like you were saying. If there's a link i'd appreciate it.



Hey bud, I haven't received them yet and it will be a few months before I install them as I'll need to get custom a-pillars made for the NZs and TN53Ks.

And were you referring to a link to the TM65s?
http://stereointegrity.com/product/tm65-6-5-woofer/


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Does anyone have info on availability of the TM65's. The last few weeks the website says shipping in January. Prior to this I was eyeing the newer Dayton 6.5s or SB's but everything I want is out of stock. Somewhat frustrated now but these look to be that killer speaker but I can only run them in a 2 Way setup plus sub.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Here's the link to the new TM65 mkIIs. The mkIIs are in a cargo ship headed to the US, not quite sure of delivery date but its hard to say with customs sometimes. Once the preorders are addressed, Nick says he'll reopen ordering until that run of drivers runs out.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/273546-tm65-mkii.html


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

dgage said:


> Here's the link to the new TM65 mkIIs. The mkIIs are in a cargo ship headed to the US, not quite sure of delivery date but its hard to say with customs sometimes. Once the preorders are addressed, Nick says he'll reopen ordering until that run of drivers runs out.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/273546-tm65-mkii.html


Yeah that's the last site I went too a few weeks back. I really want these in a 2 way active setup but I'm delaying my build just waiting for everything to come in and a few back orders, If I went ahead and did my HU and deadening I would have to just pull it all again anyway.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

It's called practice...duh.  Just kidding. Where in TN are you? I'm in Ktown.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

I'm a little southeast of you in Chattanooga. Tell me your a Vols fan. I originally wanted to try the Dayton Designer series DSA175 6.5's but they are out of stock also.


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