# 2019 Porsche 718 Cayman GTS - SQ install



## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

I'm ready to start the build on my Cayman! Got some good advice here, and some good experience as I've been doing my 4Runner build as well

My goals for this build is to keep an OEM look, but obviously improve the sound quality. I just want it to be subtle. Just like the color of the car:



I'll be repurposing some Hertz Mille ML1600 and ML280 for a 2-way active system. I want a subwoofer, but I'm limited in available diameter. Most I can do is an 8". Based on the advice of my local shop, and their knowledge of my tastes, they suggested the JL Audio 8W7AE-3 (depth isn't nearly as much of a problem as height). I'll be doing a sealed fiberglass enclosure.

For signal, I'm using the NavTV Zen-V MOST-150 adapter, and will feed an optical signal to the amp/dsp. I know some people will choose to use high-level inputs and sum the channels, I think this is the better, simpler method.

I was planning to use the JL VX1000/5i to power it all, and actually ordered one. I know some other people have used them in their Porsche installs, putting it under the passenger seat. I did a mock/dry fit, and I didn't feel comfortable with the amount of strain it would put on the pigtail cables.

As I was looking though, it's wider than I was expecting under there, and I believe I can fit two smaller amps, side by side. I'm instead going with the Audison AP F8.9 for the front stage, and the AP1 D monoblock for the sub. As a "bonus," I'll now have enough power and channels to go 3-way in the future if I wanted to  Hell, I may even just try the mids that are in there now. If I don't like it, I can just mute those channels, and everything would be ready to go if I chose to buy some better midrange speakers at some point.

Ok, onto the build! First up, sound treatment. The Cayman is a LOUD car. Surprisingly, not so much the engine noise, but road and tire noise. I dabbled with some MLV on the 4Runner build, and it was enough to teach me that I NEVER want to deal with that crap ever again. Such a pain in the arse! I'm using Soundskins Pro and hope for the best.

P.S. I ripped apart a brand new Porsche within a week of ownership. All my friends think I'm nuts for some reason 











This car has the "Sound Package Plus" system, which is the "base." It consists of a 3-way front stage, and 2 rear speakers (tweeter sized). The woofers and the mids are in the door, and the front tweeter is on the dash, actually under the air vent modules. Here, you can see the woofer and mid



The tweeters were more difficult to get to. Those vents are firmly held in place! I have to give a huge shout out to Elevated Audio, who were kind enough to help me figure out how to remove them. There are two sliding latches, four spring clips on the side, and one rear clip, all holding it in place. And between the shape and the damn windshield being in the way, there's no good way to get much leverage. When the clips are released, it comes up and out at around a 30 degree angle. Once it's out, the tweeters are simply clipped into place (it's not fully clipped in in this picture):



And here's what the vent itself looks like for anyone else trying to figure out how to get it out:











Now I just need to figure out how I'm actually going to mount the new tweeters. I'll definitely need to cut away some of the plastic that originally surrounded the OEM tweeter. More problematic, there's no screw holes that I found, which I could use to make an adapter. I think I might have to resort to using double sided mounting tape, or a glue or something similar. I'm not in love with any of those ideas though, and am open to suggestions if anyone has any other ideas.

BTW, in the SPP, the mids and the tweets look to be on the same channel (same colored wires). Good news though, running new speaker wires to the tweets is super easy and straight forward.

I also went ahead and took out the seats, some trim pieces, the carpet, and the head unit (PCM 4.0)





I finished up the day soldering some 16/4 speaker wire to eventually send signal from the new amp to the speaker locations in the doors.

Next, I'll probably focus on figuring out the tweeter situation, then maybe run power. Might be able to start on speaker adapters as well.


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

Nice!

And subtle. Lol

I had a forza 8.9 in my car for awhile. I was impressed with how it sounded. And how small it was.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

phroenips said:


> I just want it to be subtle. Just like the color of the car:



:laugh:

:snacks:


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Beautiful car! Pleasantly surprised at the number of new Porsche builds that are on this forum. Porsche seems to be doing well - great to see. 

Yes, those pics of a gutted, new Porsche is shocking to see  Please us know how the Secondskin did to tone down the road noise or if it had much affect. I agree with MLV - very tough to work with on a car with tight tolerances. I like your idea with the 3 way, and I’m very curious as to what you end up deciding on the tweeters. 


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

That is awesome! I always liked the Cayman . way cool looking car. 

Do you have more pictures of the stock tweeter? Wonder if you could fabricate something that clips into that location for securing the replacement.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

jcesl2 said:


> Nice!
> 
> And subtle. Lol
> 
> ...


Nice, I have the AP 8.9 (non-forza) in my RS3, bridged to a four channel configuration, and I like it in there too. At the time, forza wasn't out yet.

Also, the forza isn't even a year old, you've had it in your car and pulled it out already? Haha

May I ask why you pulled it, or what replaced it?




chithead said:


> That is awesome! I always liked the Cayman . way cool looking car.
> 
> Do you have more pictures of the stock tweeter? Wonder if you could fabricate something that clips into that location for securing the replacement.


No other pictures at the moment, but I could take some. There's not much to it though, it's like a really small hockey puck.

That's a great idea, but I don't think it'll quite work in this application. At least not with the ML280. Reason being is that to do that, it would cause the tweeter to stick up higher than normal. There is some clearance to do that in the vent, but it tapers to a very narrow area. The outside width of the ML280 wouldn't clear it.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> I like your idea with the 3 way, and I’m very curious as to what you end up deciding on the tweeters.


I can't take credit for the full 3-way idea. I did have the initial idea about reserving the option, and I was talking with the master technician at my local shop (the same one who masterfully figured out how to access the tweeter) to ask his opinion if I should go ahead and bridge all 8 channels into a four channel config, or just bridge the woofers, and power the tweets with regular channels, leaving two channels "unused." He's the one that suggested trying the OEM mid, which makes total sense now! Haha


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Beautiful car... one of the most mid engined of all mid engine cars. I had a Boxster a few years ago and the handling of these things is incredible! 

Great build in progress, sub'd for more!


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

what do you think of the GTS, i am thinking about buying a red one myself

thanks for any input


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

Gorgeous car! Love it! I’m a fan of yellow myself. I have a 2004 Rio yellow s2000. And I’m about to do a build in my 2000 3rd gen 4Runner.

Great taste in vehicles sir!

Looking forward to the finished product! ??


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Porsche said:


> what do you think of the GTS, i am thinking about buying a red one myself
> 
> thanks for any input


This is my first Porsche, so of course it's great. In my test drives, I definitely preferred the mid-engine Cayman over the rear engine 911. I'm also following the recommended break-in procedure, so haven't been able to fully explore the performance. The handling is unreal though, and below 4000 rpm, it's plenty quick.

For reference, I used to have an Audi RS5 (450hp NA V8), and still have an Audi RS3 (400hp turbo Inline 5). I live in Denver, so up here at altitude, the forced induction makes a notable difference. I also drove a 981 Cayman S, and while it may have sounded great, the performance left me lacking (combination of altitude, and the aforementioned "baseline" of vehicles that I'm used to).

With all that said, while it is a very comfortable car (I got the 18-way sport seats plus), I'm not sure it would be a great "road trip" car, simply due to the road noise. It reminds me of my motorcycling days, where the wind noise alone would leave me exhausted at the end of the day. But that's ok, it'll be a hoot around the track!


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

phroenips said:


> Nice, I have the AP 8.9 (non-forza) in my RS3, bridged to a four channel configuration, and I like it in there too. At the time, forza wasn't out yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It wasn’t because I didn’t like it. The plan was to do my car in stages. First stage was the forza on stock speakers and a small prefab sub. With the bit dmi. Expected it to be about 6 months before stage 2. Turned out to be 1 month. Lol 

Replaced it with a thesis quattro. Full system is in my signature. But I was happy enough with that amp that when I put an amp in my truck, I used an ap4.9.



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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

jcesl2 said:


> It wasn’t because I didn’t like it. The plan was to do my car in stages. First stage was the forza on stock speakers and a small prefab sub. With the bit dmi. Expected it to be about 6 months before stage 2. Turned out to be 1 month. Lol
> 
> Replaced it with a thesis quattro. Full system is in my signature. But I was happy enough with that amp that when I put an amp in my truck, I used an ap4.9.
> 
> ...


Haha, wow, that's quite the progression. And quite the difference in form factor! lol

Took a look at your build thread, very nice.


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

Thanks I like it. 

And yeah, there were some comments at the dinner table along the lines of you spent how much for a month to pull it out and spend how much?


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

I've been cross-posting this over on the 718 forums as well. And it was requested I take measurements of the space under the seat, so here they are:

About 8.5" front to back



Technically, 20" side to side, though the grounding screw takes up some space. I'd say 18 to 18.5" usable



Height/depth is also a concern. The front is taller than the back, and you'll need to be mindful of the seat rails that follow that angle

2.5" up front, and 1.5" in the back





Onto the build update! I was apprehensive about hacking up my brand new Porsche to fit the tweeters, so I did what any reasonable person would do: ignore it and work on something else! :laugh:

Used the trusty router to make some speaker adapters. First made templates out of MDF, then transferred that to acrylic. To get the depth I needed/wanted, I'm stacking a total of three layers. The first is 1/4", and will be the part that actually screws onto the door panel, then two 1/2" rings, slightly smaller in diameter. Used acrylic cement to bond them together, they're still curing right now. Should be able to drill/tap holes for the speakers and mount them up tomorrow.



And I went and picked up the new amps. They fit! And much better than the VXI



I was going to run power to them, but realized that they only accept up to 8 gauge wire. All I have on hand is 4 gauge. Sigh. Ordered some 8 gauge from KnuKonceptz. I can at least still use the 4 gauge to the distribution block. There's a handy OEM distribution block right in the passenger footwell. I liked it, so I put a ring [terminal] on it (That's a Beyoncé joke).





And the small distro block will be right behind the monoblock amp:



Well, that's all I can do until the 8 gauge arrives. Now what? Ugh, fine, tweeters.

This makes me nervous...



I ended up cutting away the plastic surround of the OEM tweeters, and pulled out the metal clips that held it in place.







But it looks like it's going to work!



As for securing them, I think I'm just going to have to use some double sided mounting tape and/or hot glue. I looked again for a way to mount them onto the removable vent piece instead, but there's not enough clearance there, and even if there was, with the way it slides back into place, it would interfere with other areas on its way into the dash.

I finished up the evening with soldering, more soldering, and even more soldering, for the connectors onto all the various end points.


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

phroenips said:


> I liked it, so I put a ring [terminal] on it (That's a Beyoncé joke).




Where’s the unsubscribe button???


Looks good. Glad it was you cutting that up. I couldn’t do it. Lol


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Subscribed for awesomeness!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

This is interesting, subscribed and waiting to see more.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Small update

Had some techflex laying around, so I wrapped my power cables. Provides zero functional benefit, but it looks cool!





The 8 gauge wire came in, so I finished running power



I was searching for a place to mount the Zen-V, and was originally thinking on top of the PCM. Here's what the back of that looks like:



But by the time I plugged in all the other wires, and tried to put the PCM back into its hole, it didn't fit. I'll have to put it in the passenger footwell area instead.



I used the ZEN-V-PRG to reprogram the PCM to send signal out of the optical MOST plug, and while I saw light coming out, the radio itself showed a message "Audio not available." Hmm. In the instructions, there's a way to do a bit of a "hybrid," where it'll send signal out the internal amplified channels, and the fiber optics. I tried that, and that got rid of the "audio not available" message.

I think I'm also having issues with the ZEN-V module itself. When I first give it power, I see the toslink port light up, but after a few seconds, it goes dark again. I already checked, and it's at the latest firmware. I think it might be having issues properly decoding the MOST signal. I'll have to give them a call on Monday.

I did end up getting the tweeters mounted too! But in the excitement of it all, forgot to get pictures  What I wound up doing was using double-sided mounting tape. One layer on the plastic bits of the car, to contour to that; then a couple pieces on the back of the tweeter itself. This seemed to provide enough coverage, material, and thickness to make a good enough adhesion. I can't lift it up with my finger, but if I needed to get it off to replace a bad tweeter, or just try something new, I'd still be able to. So, I'm happy with it.

I'm getting so close, I can taste it! Drilled and tapped holes in my speaker adapters. And on the LAST F$#[email protected]@[email protected]%* hole, my tap breaks off! I cannot express all the feelings, emotions, and cursing that followed. 



And that concluded my day, I'm off to get a beer or three with some friends.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

Curious to see how the Soundskins pro sounds compared to the MLV. I'm hesitant about MLV as well.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Curious to see how the Soundskins pro sounds compared to the MLV. I'm hesitant about MLV as well.




Why are you hesitant on MLV? The concept is very easy. 


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Why are you hesitant on MLV? The concept is very easy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea, concept is easy, but the process seems very tedious in combination with the CCF. I dunno, I've never deadened doors before so it's all speculation. I might just be overcomplicating things. Main thing is I don't have a garage so it makes working on the car a bit more difficult.

I've been reading about Soundskins Pro and it seems to be pretty good, but I haven't seen any real comparisons against actual CCF/MLV setups.


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

That pocket looks like it was made for the amps to go in.

I want to see the tweeters. Hurry up and take pictures. Sucks about the Zen. Hopefully they fix it on Monday.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Yea, concept is easy, but the process seems very tedious in combination with the CCF. I dunno, I've never deadened doors before so it's all speculation. I might just be overcomplicating things. Main thing is I don't have a garage so it makes working on the car a bit more difficult.
> 
> I've been reading about Soundskins Pro and it seems to be pretty good, but I haven't seen any real comparisons against actual CCF/MLV setups.


Tedious doesn't bother me as much as difficulty. MLV was such a pain to work with! It doesn't bend very easily, flat out doesn't conform to complex curves at all. For example, if you try to do a wheel well, it would require a minimum of two pieces, probably more, that you then would have to cement together. And it is NOT easy to cut, either. For what it's worth, the CCF part was very easy.

In the Cayman, the Soundskins Pro honesty didn't make a huge difference. For one, it's a loud sports car. And two, I think Porsche actually did what they could already. A lot of the trim pieces, and the carpet have really thick molded closed cell foam (3-5").

We did finally finish applying it to the doors in the 4Runner though, and I would say it made a marked difference. To summarize, we have MLV on the floor, and Soundskins Pro pretty much everywhere else, below the window line. It's a lot quieter on the highway now, and it seems all the noise that's left is coming from the glass at this point. For ease of application, Soundskins Pro will get my vote every day over MLV.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

phroenips said:


> Tedious doesn't bother me as much as difficulty. MLV was such a pain to work with! It doesn't bend very easily, flat out doesn't conform to complex curves at all. For example, if you try to do a wheel well, it would require a minimum of two pieces, probably more, that you then would have to cement together. And it is NOT easy to cut, either. For what it's worth, the CCF part was very easy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I cut with a razor blade and it was a cake walk. Doesn't bend too well no but a few relief cuts and your good made a HUGE difference in my car. If I deaden another a vehicle it's a very very key piece to keep road noise out in my opinion. 


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

Sweet build. Excited to see how it turns out! I'm loving mine.

Not loving the several grand I just dropped on new shoes & brake pads/rotors... but I'm going to love every minute of destroying them so I can do it all again.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

flgfish said:


> Sweet build. Excited to see how it turns out! I'm loving mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Not loving the several grand I just dropped on new shoes & brake pads/rotors... but I'm going to love every minute of destroying them so I can do it all again.




Several grand for brakes good lord that better be bigger calipers carbon ceramic rotors and good pads or else you got raped. 


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

Redliner99 said:


> Several grand for brakes good lord that better be bigger calipers carbon ceramic rotors and good pads or else you got raped.


"Shoes" in this vernacular meant tires... Michelin PS4s 245's and 305's aren't cheap. Rotors are $700 for front & rear, pads are another $400... fluid flush, new caliper bolts, etc etc etc...


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

phroenips said:


> Tedious doesn't bother me as much as difficulty. MLV was such a pain to work with! It doesn't bend very easily, flat out doesn't conform to complex curves at all. For example, if you try to do a wheel well, it would require a minimum of two pieces, probably more, that you then would have to cement together. And it is NOT easy to cut, either. For what it's worth, the CCF part was very easy.
> 
> In the Cayman, the Soundskins Pro honesty didn't make a huge difference. For one, it's a loud sports car. And two, I think Porsche actually did what they could already. A lot of the trim pieces, and the carpet have really thick molded closed cell foam (3-5").
> 
> We did finally finish applying it to the doors in the 4Runner though, and I would say it made a marked difference. To summarize, we have MLV on the floor, and Soundskins Pro pretty much everywhere else, below the window line. It's a lot quieter on the highway now, and it seems all the noise that's left is coming from the glass at this point. For ease of application, Soundskins Pro will get my vote every day over MLV.


Awesome, thanks! I'll take a look at your 4Runner thread. I'm working with a Honda Accord so definitely not gonna have anywhere near as good factory treatment as Porsche! Also I'm only doing the doors.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Redliner99 said:


> I cut with a razor blade and it was a cake walk. Doesn't bend too well no but a few relief cuts and your good made a HUGE difference in my car. If I deaden another a vehicle it's a very very key piece to keep road noise out in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was using fresh blades in a utility knife, and it was definitely not cake. Maybe the specific MLV I got was the problem, I dunno.

I got it online from Home Depot, free shipping to the house. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Xtrm-Pl...Acoustic-Barrier-Roll-7102-11054-10/304268301

P.S. Now I want cake.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

jcesl2 said:


> That pocket looks like it was made for the amps to go in.
> 
> I want to see the tweeters. Hurry up and take pictures. Sucks about the Zen. Hopefully they fix it on Monday.
> 
> ...


Well, in a way, that pocket *was* made for the amps. In the Bose and Burmester upgraded options, that's where they put those amps. Maybe I should say "amps," from what I hear, they're pretty pathetic. In fact, my car even had some mounting tabs installed for those amps. I removed them to make a bit more room.

I'll take some more pics of the tweeters, but it looks just like my dry fit


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

flgfish said:


> "Shoes" in this vernacular meant tires... Michelin PS4s 245's and 305's aren't cheap. Rotors are $700 for front & rear, pads are another $400... fluid flush, new caliper bolts, etc etc etc...




I almost got those when I got new tires. 275 and 295s. Decided on the continental extreme dsw. Quieter. 


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Here's a couple more pictures of the tweeters:





And I got a new tap and die set, and was able to finish up the speaker adapters.



Since the tap broke off in one of them, and I wasn't able to get it out, I had to rotate the speaker to make new holes. Now it'll be out of phase!! 



One final test, all checked out, so I put the door panels back on. Still leaving the vents off, juuussstt in case.

Now all I can do is wait until I can talk to NavTV support.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

Wow, that is a seriously beefy door setup. Looking forward to the test with the Soundskins Pro!


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## mondo (Oct 31, 2013)

Beautiful car!


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

I like how all the speakers look. Even the crooked one.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks for all the compliments 

Called Nav-TV this morning, and got right through to their very helpful support personnel. They called me back about an hour later with something to check, and that turned out to be the culprit. The polarity on the MOST fiber connections were backwards. Light was coming out of the PCM on the fiber that was the Zen-V's output wire as well.

(In case you aren't aware, these fiber optic signals travel one way, that's why there's two of them. One for send, one for receive). He walked me through how to reverse them in the connector harness, and boom, everything started working! 

This also resolved the "Audio not available," because before, the PCM wasn't getting any signal back, which it was expecting. So, it was assuming something was broken.

Now I just need to get my silly work day out of the way so I go finish things up!


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

Subbed:snacks:


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Nice build! 

How do you like the most adaptor , compared to the mObridge how would you say? 
Or should I say glitchy at all?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

Did you put a piece of closed cell foam behind your speakers do you think the Soundskins Pro's layer of CCF is enough to absorb the backwaves?


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Did you put a piece of closed cell foam behind your speakers do you think the Soundskins Pro's layer of CCF is enough to absorb the backwaves?


Doubt much of anything would fit back there if you still want to put the window down.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

I can finally put the car back together!

In order to get the vents to fit over the tweeters, I ended up having to dremel away some interior bits of plastic on those pieces as well.

Here's what it looks like before being molested:





And after:





I had checked the amp/dsp firmware already, and it was up to date. I knew there was a firmware update available for the DRC, so I went to go update that. And the computer program said the update failed, and the DRC broke  It simply said "Erase completed" 

Tried a different computer, couldn't even get all the requisite software installed on that one. Time to call my friends at Elevated Audio again. In the state in was in, they taught me that I could press the Escape button, and it would put it in "boot mode." They also admitted these things can be finicky, and asked if I could bring the car down so they can troubleshoot. Worst case, they have another DRC in stock that they could swap out for me.

That's what I did, I showed them what I did, we put it in boot mode, and tried to install the firmware again. Same results.

Tried on their shop laptop, and it worked without a hitch. Sigh. Well, at least it's up and running now. Here's where I decided to mount it. And with the DRC MP, you can choose between 42 different colors. Anyone want to guess what color I chose?

MOAR YELLOW, of course!!



After all this, how does it sound? I'm very pleased. It still definitely needs a subwoofer.

I was tinkering around with having one preset as my "2-way tune," and setup the other one as a "3-way," using the factory midrange speaker. I've got the 2-way tune about 90% there; the 3-way needs some more work. But that's just for frequencies and tonalities. Comparing the soundstage of the two is pretty revealing.

At least for this car, with the factory speaker locations where they are, I much prefer the 2-way. In that configuration, the tweeters are crossed lower (I'm doing 2250Hz right now), which raises the soundstage much higher. In my 3-way tune, I have the mids doing 500-3k; then tweeters start at 3k. 24db Linkwitz-Riley all around. And the soundstage plummets down to around mid-torso. I'll still play with the tuning, but so far, I'm thinking I'll just stick with the 2-way setup as per my original design. Not a bad thing, that means I can save money on not buying better mids!


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

oabeieo said:


> Nice build!
> 
> How do you like the most adaptor , compared to the mObridge how would you say?
> Or should I say glitchy at all?


I don't have any experience with mObridge, so I can't really compare. I haven't had any problems with it so far on the Cayman, but I must admit we've had a few issues on our Audi RS3. At first, when switching sources on the head unit (i.e. from radio to media), it would play static. It would also sometimes not play anything at all. Usually radio would work, but not media/sd card/carplay. NavTV developed a firmware fix for that, and we've been problem free for a good 6 months or so. But then suddenly, in this past week, it wouldn't turn on the amps, which required me to pull power at the car battery (pulling power at the Zen-V likely would've worked as well, but battery was much easier). I believe you're friends with Aaron? He can tell you all about it 



SlvrDragon50 said:


> Did you put a piece of closed cell foam behind your speakers do you think the Soundskins Pro's layer of CCF is enough to absorb the backwaves?


Just Soundskins Pro. As flgfish mentioned, there's no room for much else.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Very nice, clean work!


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Well crap.

I just spent a fair bit of time working on the 3-way tune, and it might now sound better than the 2-way. Seems to have widened the stage.

This is bad, because it means I might want to spend even more money on some quality mids


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

phroenips said:


> Well crap.
> 
> I just spent a fair bit of time working on the 3-way tune, and it might now sound better than the 2-way. Seems to have widened the stage.
> 
> This is bad, because it means I might want to spend even more money on some quality mids


Do it! :laugh::laugh::laugh: I'm an enabler


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## jcesl2 (Nov 14, 2018)

No point wasting those extra channels on the amp...

I can enable too. Lol

The DRC looks very subtle. I ended up with a shade of orange to match my dash lighting. I’ve since decided I don’t like my dash lighting color. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

I know, I can start a gofundme for the speakers! I bet I'd get a lot of sympathy donations for my multi-thousand dollar sound system in my Porsche. lol


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

phroenips said:


> I know, I can start a gofundme for the speakers! I bet I'd get a lot of sympathy donations for my multi-thousand dollar sound system in my Porsche. lol


You could do try the DA RS100p. I have a 3D printed model for an adapter for it here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3449073
They're pretty great for $33. 

There's also an adapter for the Esotar E430, but those are a bit more cheddar...


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

flgfish said:


> You could do try the DA RS100p. I have a 3D printed model for an adapter for it here:
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3449073
> They're pretty great for $33.
> 
> There's also an adapter for the Esotar E430, but those are a bit more cheddar...


Hmm, that's tempting (the Dayton, not the Dyn). I don't have a 3D printer, or know of anyone with one either. I've heard of some libraries that might have them available though?

Looks like the RS100p is 4 Ohm with a sensitivity of 88.5 dB. When running the OEM midrange speaker, it's my limiting factor on volume. I have tweeters and mid bass down in the -9 to -11 dB range in order to level match them. Of course, I have no idea what the specs on the OEM midrange is, but I'd hate for that mismatch to be even worse.

With all that said, when I originally bought all this gear from my local shop, they said a requirement of doing a "cash and carry," is that I had to bring it back when I was done so they could listen to it  I did that with the 4Runner build too, and they gave me some constructive criticism on the tune, which I took back and incorporated.

Well, I took the Cayman in today. They were genuinely blown away with it as-is. No notes to give me at all. In fact, their lead/master installer said that Hotel California (Live) was the best he's ever heard it in any car, period. I had asked them about maybe something like the Hertz ML700.3 (to match the rest of the speakers), and they said it might be 1-2% improvement to the whole system. Is that worth ~$450?

So, maybe I should just shut-up and be happy with what I have! :laugh:


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

Drop me your address, I think I have a couple extras that I printed... I can send you a couple if you want them. No big deal...


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

flgfish said:


> Drop me your address, I think I have a couple extras that I printed... I can send you a couple if you want them. No big deal...


Wow, how very generous! PM sent, including a request to at least pay you for them and/or shipping.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

I’d avoid skimping on mids since they play such important frequencies. Maybe look at the Scanspeak 10f/4424g’s as a high-value option.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I've used the old version of the ML700's with excellent results. I've since switched over to an AP Ram3a but want to try a 10f, the NZ3, and a AF GB25/40.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

i have a NIB pair of dyna esotar 430 mids, they will fit i use them in all my cars.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Porsche said:


> i have a NIB pair of dyna esotar 430 mids, they will fit i use them in all my cars.


Dang... I did not need to read that!

Says to self "Must not PM Porsche, must not PM Porsche!"


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

mumbles said:


> Dang... I did not need to read that!
> 
> Says to self "Must not PM Porsche, must not PM Porsche!"


only 2 pairs left NIB


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Porsche said:


> i have a NIB pair of dyna esotar 430 mids, they will fit i use them in all my cars.


If I'm struggling to justify a ~$400 pair of Hertz, I'm pretty sure Dynaudio Esotars would be way out of the question


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

phroenips said:


> If I'm struggling to justify a ~$400 pair of Hertz, I'm pretty sure Dynaudio Esotars would be way out of the question


well, you have a very nice car which deserves the best IMO, the dyna 4" is like comparing your GTS to a base Cayman IMO, not even close.

but seriously good luck, like someone else stated the midrange is the most important driver in the system.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Oops, I did a thing 



I was extremely close to getting a cheap pair of Dayton RS100P-4, but I knew that even though I knew it would sound better, I would still be wondering how it would sound with speakers matching the quality of the rest of my system. So, I saved up some extra money, used a couple rebate gift cards I had laying around, and ordered them from my local shop.

I had some leftover 1/4" acrylic, so I went to make some speaker adapters. The ML700.3 has really small mounting holes (it comes with 2.5mm screws), and my tap and die set couldn't do anything that small. I tried pre-drilling holes and using the provided screws, and of course the acrylic cracked :mean:

Fortunately, I was able to use the 3D printed adapters that flgfish so kindly sent me (designed for the RS100P). The speaker opening was a little too large, but it was close enough. I used the speed clips that came with the speakers to secure things a little bit better.



Put it quick tune on it, and I definitely got the extra volume I was looking for. I got an extra 8-10 dB! It was so dramatic, I finally measured the impedance on the OEM midrange, and discovered they are 8 ohm speakers (DC resistance measured at 6.5 to 6.6), so that explains that.

I did a quick re-tune, I'll give it some break-in time before doing a more thorough tuning. For now, at least it doesn't sound any worse! lol


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

Sweet. Glad the adapters worked.


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

How's the system working out?


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

I still haven't tackled the subwoofer enclosure yet due to life getting in the way, along with a healthy dose of procrastination :blush:

I'm very happy with the new midrange speakers though, it sounds great. And I threw in a small powered subwoofer I had laying around to give me a bit more low-end until I get a real subwoofer installed.

The Nav-TV Zen-V module has acted up a couple times though. Sometimes, it won't play sound on any "media" sources (i.e. SD card, Bluetooth, CarPlay), but the Tuner (AM/FM) works. To temporarily fix it, all it's required so far is powering off the radio, waiting 60-90 seconds so the Nav-TV also shuts down, then powering it back on.

The same thing happened on our RS3, Nav-TV developed new firmware to improve it there. I just looked, and there's another firmware update available, dated May 1 (a week after I buttoned the car back up. Of course.). Release notes indicate it improves 2019 vehicle support, specifically no sound on some sources, so maybe that's the fix I need.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

*Originally, I accidentally posted this update in my planning thread, not this build thread. Oops.*

Work, life, and a healthy dose of procrastination has prevented additional work on this build. All that has finally been overcome.

Let's get started





Car side part done. It was quite stubborn to come out, but I eventually got it.



Except apparently I completely missed some hard to reach corners. D'oh!



At least it was sturdy enough at this point where I could "patch" it on a bench where it's easier to access. I had to buy more resin, and decided to get some yellow pigment instead of black. Because it's fun!



Time to stretch over the cover. I got some cheater stretchy material from the fabric store



More glass. Boy, is this fun 



...aaaand we're done!





So, good news, it's done, and it sounds fantastic!

Bad news, the only way I could secure it to the vehicle was with a screw from inside the box. So, in order to take it out, I'd have to remove the sub itself from the box first.

Bad news^2, this is a mid-engine car. To even change the air filter, and for some other service, I'd have to remove the enclosure to access the engine, etc. So, at least once per year, it would have to come out for annual service.

Bad news^3, I need a grill to protect it from cargo back there. With the grill bars in place, and glued in like they're supposed to be, I could no longer remove the sub, which is required to remove the enclosure.

So after all this time, effort, and expense, I don't see how this is going to work.

Sigh.

Even before realizing this, I was thinking to myself that if I had to do it all over again, I'd just get something like a pre-fab CS110LG-TW3 (which would fit back there), strap it down, and I'd be able to quickly and easily remove it for service, track days, autocross, etc. So, I may end up going down that route after all, and selling the 8W7AE. It's a shame, 'cause that 8W7AE really does sound good!

After I've had some time to cool down and think about it, I could maybe do something with straps that attach to the trunk tie downs, then come underneath, and then up on the “face” of the fiberglass enclosure. The straps would be slightly “ugly,” but still better than a lame “rectangle box in the trunk”

Otherwise, the car audio shop was saying that for the bars, they actually typically just install them with a friction fit, leveraging the carpet to provide an extra tight fitment. Takes some work to get them in and out, but it’s not permanent. Honestly, I’d prefer the straps at this point. Way easier, even if it’d be a little uglier. I’ve got an appointment with them on Monday so we can look at it together and brainstorm.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

Nicely done. maybe you could resell the fiberglass enclosure?


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

slvrtsunami said:


> Nicely done. maybe you could resell the fiberglass enclosure?


Thank you!

I met with the local audio shop today, and they think my strap idea would work. I'm letting them finish off the rest of it, including some body filling, carpeting, installing grill, and the straps.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

I can totally understand that. Please keep us posted and pics of course!!!


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

Box is done!

https://flic.kr/p/2hfqfsv

It looks so good, I'm rethinking if I really want/need to do straps. My next task is to see if I can modify the plastic trim piece to be able to take it out (and eventually access the engine compartment) with the sub still in place. Worst case, to replace that trim piece, it's only ~$60 for a new part. 

Meanwhile, I'm just enjoying the system. I'm incredibly pleased with how it all sounds.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

perfect fit. Have you thought of industrial Velcro?? I think the box is small enough for it be held in place.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

slvrtsunami said:


> perfect fit. Have you thought of industrial Velcro?? I think the box is small enough for it be held in place.


Super late reply, I missed this when originally posted.

Industrial velcro might be ok for normal driving, but the weight of the enclosure and the sub would be too much under heavy g-forces on a track or autocross course.

I ended up leaving it bolted in (from inside the box). I haven't had to remove it yet, and I did successfully cut that trim piece so I can remove it and access the engine bay (haven't had to do that yet, either).

I can confirm that it has successfully stayed in place during several track events and several autocross events  And I have to explain to the tech inspector that it's bolted down every time


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

phroenips said:


> Box is done!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so the box and sub look good!!! did you get that w8 for the sound or because the logo with yellow matches 🤣🤣🤣


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

w7 8 . ooppppssss.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

optimaprime said:


> so the box and sub look good!!! did you get that w8 for the sound or because the logo with yellow matches 🤣🤣🤣


Hah! Now I'm disappointed I hadn't thought of that before!

Thanks, I picked the 8W7 because most 8" subs on the market don't have the low end extension I was wanting, while also staying musical (as opposed to just being loud). If I could've fit a 10" (or larger) without giving up the entire rear trunk, I would've had a lot more options.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

phroenips said:


> Hah! Now I'm disappointed I hadn't thought of that before!
> 
> Thanks, I picked the 8W7 because most 8" subs on the market don't have the low end extension I was wanting, while also staying musical (as opposed to just being loud). If I could've fit a 10" (or larger) without giving up the entire rear trunk, I would've had a lot more options.


I had 10 w7 for longest time loved that dang thing. did what ever I wanted it do.


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