# Seas W12 & L18, Hiquphon OWII, Crystal COMPs



## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Here is my thoughts on my system. Pics can be found under the "Install Gallery" section. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2355

npdang, thanks for setting this site up!! I visit owe so frequently, every hour! I think you started this hobby for me, I don't know whether to thank you or despise you for it : Þ

I am sure you have read on other posts me praising the Seas L18s. For midbass duty and even below 60Hz, these things make me smile everyday! They are fantastic IMO. 

The Crystal Mobilesound COMP subwoofers are great too! I can not say one bad thing about these subwoofers if you intend on using them for a SQ installation. I have not enjoyed another subwoofer to date as much as these except a JL W6V2 one time. It pains me to say that : )

There are times I ask myself why does a SQ install need an expensive amp and subs when a 7" or 8" driver in your doors could takes it place. I love to the boost the low-end all the time, but for people who are jazz fans at heart or for people who are on a limit with their money, I completely recommend holding off on subwoofers and installing a 3-way. Heavily dampened doors and a nice 7" or 8" driver sound fantastic up front, especially if you do not have a competition car to compare your sound too. That way you can never be dissatisfied. That is all IMO though.

What you are about to read next should be taken with a grain of salt for the simple reason that I have yet to hear another DIY system. In NH and MA area, I see a lot of big bass systems and classy looking installs but I have yet to meet anyone in the area that has a DIY install for strictly SQ purposes. My point I am trying to make is that I have nothing to really compare my listening too. 

I will start with the Hiquphon OWIIs. To my ears, these things are magical! I would highly recommend trying them if you find a midrange driver to XO in the 3kHz range. I have used the OWIIs below 2.5kHz, but I tend to XO them over about 3kHz with at least a 12dB/oct slope because everyone recommends it : ) If you are thinking about trying the Hiquphons out, I would also suggest having a ton of processing capabilities in the event the tweeters sound harsh to you. My left side OWII sounds fantastic without a touch of EQ'ing, but the right channel tweeter can often sound like I am riding against a guardrail. I will admit that this was my first DIY install so I probably posistioned that tweeter all wrong.

Onto the Seas W12 midranges. I like the sound of these little guys but lately I have been torn on whether I love their sound. I have been swapping memory channels on my P9 between a 3-way system and a 2-way system with the L18s playing up to 2.5kHz. The sounds are night and day! I finally understand what people mean when they use words like "neutral", "colored", "warm", "forward", and the list goes on. The L18s seem more neutral, dry, and flat with regards to their FR to me. They are more forward and involving, they often have better imaging as well. The W12s on the other hand, have more color, and can be much warmer. The image is set back and is never in your face. I started from scratch with my processing to try and fall in love with these W12s again. 

Another comment to make, with all my listening tests, I refuse to throw out any of my music that may be recorded badly. I guess I am too stubborn. With any type of music, the W12s will do the job. They will play as loud as what is safe for listening levels but if you love your music at over-the-top levels, I recommend a bigger midrange. If you listen to well recorded music, these little guys will not miss a single beat at any volume. That is what I am most impressed about! For example, the acoustic versions of "Simple Man" and "45" on the Shinedown CD sound awesome IMO.

I apologize for the scattered thoughts and the below average review. Hopefully something someone might read in here will help them out someday! Peace guys and thanks for keeping this site going!!


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## Nothingness (Mar 31, 2005)

Try the W18EX vs. the L18 and let me know your impressions

Nice rundown on things. Personally, I have never heard the W12, but every Seas Mag driver has sounded more "weighty" than the Alum line of drivers. They have also sounded more transparent/neutral/uncolored/etc. As well, they sound very dynamic. I think it totally depends on how they are crossed and how much you are hearing the L18's crazy breakups. The W series has a breakup, but much further out and with much less crazyness compared to the L series.

I think in a car the 7" will sound just as you put it...the three way even with a top driver like the W12 in there will sound inferior IMO. Try a W15 in place of the W12 and I think you have a little different story. There is also the Usher dome mid that you can toss in between the L18 and tweet...would give you a VERY spacious sound due to the dome mids dispersion characteristics...clarity would be excellent with no resonance...and you will have plenty of neutrality and cleansliness.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Thanks Mike. I have been contemplating switching out the W12 for another driver for quite some time. I am just skeptical due to the work I would have to put back into the kickpanels. 

What do you have installed in your car? Have anything to share...?


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## Nothingness (Mar 31, 2005)

tf1216 said:


> Thanks Mike. I have been contemplating switching out the W12 for another driver for quite some time. I am just skeptical due to the work I would have to put back into the kickpanels.
> 
> What do you have installed in your car? Have anything to share...?


I have a factory Bose system....loving it...LOL!

I'll put my Phaze/Vifa XT system back in shortly and use a single 15" PPI DCX running off the Navone four channel thing that gives a line level signal to my JBL GTQ400. It will have no equalization other than what I can achieve using the stock bass/mid/treble section. Crossover will be onboard the JBL. I don't have high expectations, but figure this stuff isn't worth much and I may as well have a lot better sound for the money. I've just been a tad lazy lately to start installing it all.


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

I've heard the W12's, and they are really, really transparent. But the Dayton RS125 is even warmer, and comes pretty close in detail, though not quite and it can't cross as high.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey great review, we need more of these


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## joey_kev (Mar 12, 2006)

great installation. I've heard some good reviews on those hiquophon, hopefully I can have a listen to them one day


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

tf1216, I've seen many threads of you praising the L18s, and I have a question. Did you ever try them in a 2-way with just a tweet? I ask because I'm thinking about using them with possibly a SEAS 27TDFC (or Vifa XT19 if I don't have room for large format). I'd like to be able to run just a 2-way with no sub(space restrictions). Do you think they will play low enough(40hz?) and high enough(2khz?)? I've heard that they have a cone break-up mode at higher freqs., but I am unsure at what freq. it becomes troublesome. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

DeLander,
I have tried them 2-way with and without a subwoofer. The sound is much different than compared to my W12. To be honest, I actually prefer the L18 at times running it 2-way. When using the L18, I felt there was a better balance between vocals and instruments or beats. It had a much dryer sound and maybe even more dynamic. I do have to note that the music I listen to is not well recorded music by audiophiles' standards.

In a 3-way the L18 will play low and loud and you will smile with at it. I would not suggest running down to 40Hz simple because it will not do for you what a subwoofer can in a 2-way. If you want < 60Hz done well with a speaker playing the midrange as well, I think you are out of luck. Closing thought on this, for you, I think this speaker would be a fantastic choice. I do not think you will find another 7" driver that can easily outperform the L18 but I do think you can find 7" drivers that will sound different. That is the nerve-racking part.

I think I have the L18 crossed-over at 2.5kHz and I think it does great! People always talk about cone break-up but I never noticed it. I made sure I crossed-over below that point with a steep slope and while driving you will probably never notice it. Whatever funny sounds I hear I typically blame the recordings. I love listening to acoustic tracks with the L18. IMO, the vocals sound incredible and I thought the imaging I obtained with the L18 was the best I have had.

I hope this helps!


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

I have a lot of experience with the OW1, and got to listen to Tyler's ow2's enought to get a feel for them, and IMO you would be out of your mind not to get the OW1. 

Off hand I remember a review that NP gave them once. He said compared to the OW1 they 2's were "hot and hissy" THose words describe it very well. It is also somewhat difficult to work with in a car IMO as it didn't seem very linear, though that could be due to install issues and reflection problems that I didn't have working with the OW1.

Do yourself a favor and get the ow1.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

: ) Working on it my friend. Because of you I have been miserable listening to my favorite CDs. I need to make changes soon.

I do agree with you Josh, tonality things are much better but the doors need work, the tweeters need to go, and I am ready to fist fight the imaging.


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

Your doors I would need some more time to play with to acess the problem.

But the left to right imaging is not there. It could be the way the factory grills direct the sound, or the positioning of the leg, or how low we have them passed now, it seems like they are at 80 or so, you could try crossing that higher, up to 100-110 and gaining down the amp, then mess with the eq in that range to meet your liking which should give you a bit more "location" from your midbass.

The tweets, just get some Ow1's, problem solved.

The midrange, man I wish I knew. Its the same problem I had in my car and I was never able to figure out what was causing it. Built some extremely fine kicks, and had that problem, figured it was reflections, or "beaming" from the passenger side speaker as it was on axis and driver side was about 30 off. Redid the kicks to make both sides 30's off, and no reflections and the problem was still there. Crossing them at 2k steep and dropping the 1k region considerably. Eventually I got the center dialed in very tight, but I messed with so much in the process I think it was a mix of everything. Try level matching the two mids, I usually just use pink noise, see if that helps. You may need to mess with the T/A after again. 

Your subs are fine the way they are, they aren't contributing that much when in proper spectral balance, and your doors have no problems crossing at 40. 

Goerge won SVR, and took 3rd out of everyone (all classes) for best of SQ. We are going to make some slight adjustments before finals, next time he comes down I'll let you know so you can listen to what it should sound like, and hear what imaging is in a car, his car images very well. 

Actually, his car does most things very well


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Although you may still end up getting the OWI's, have you done all that you can think of with the OWII's? I ask because, admittedly, they are a bit trickier to set up than the I's... the higher sensitivity is a plus, but they may take more in the way of gain matching (and eq'-ing) with your Seas drivers while the OWI's will require less level matching.

Also, as you probably already know but it's worth mentioning for anyone not familiar with this model, don't forget that the OWII's are built intentionally with a bit of a shelf for mids with a rising response... from about 2 kHz to 4.5 or 5 kHz is flat and then the response shelves up by 2 db or so and runs flat out to about 20 kHz. So, a bit more of an effort, potentially, to get these things right and not sounding a little on the hot side.

The OWI's are flat as can be from about 2 kHz out to 20 kHz (and extend beyond that) and make life a bit easier. From tests I've read, there may be slightly less distortion than the II's. The OWI's are about 3 db less sensitive than the II's...

I've got both I's and II's and like them just about equally... once dialed-in, they do sound pretty similar. Although, if pressed, I'd give the nod to the OWI's.

For whatever the above is worth...  Just in case you might be able to save some dough.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Josh,

Thank you so much for the invitation. Also, congratulations on the fine job tuning George's ride. 

I will try some of your suggestions and see where that lands me. I really hope you don't mind sharing your time with the noobs but I think i will need your help again. The more and more I listen the more I respect your ear : ) It's just the install that is killing me. I hate it! 

The right side L18 is either bottoming out or slapping against the door panel in-front of the cone when I listen at my normal levels during certain songs. I remember now that is why I never crossed it as low as you did. I will have to experiment with that when I get a chance.

I was talking to my friend and he remembers you from a SLAP meet in Manchester, NH. You were parked right next to us. He had (2) Crystal CompX2 15" subwoofers, maybe you remember : )
He remembers liking your g/f because she was really into car audio. Is she really? I think mine is partially def or actually has a much better ear than I and knew my stereo wasn't sounding right : Þ

By the way, I hope you like Not Your Average Joe's!


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Kevin,

Before I met Josh I have experimented with the kicks in all sorts of different placements in the car and with different XO points and the tweeters always remained bright. I always used the parametric setting on the P9 and attenuated the tweeters more than 6 dB. I also had to use the graphic EQ considerably to rid my stereo of the shrill sound.

John spent about 2 to 3 hours alone helping me tune and until I use my parametric EQ, the OWIIs are just annoying to me. I must say thank you for your advice, and you know I have the utmost respect for you, your stereo, and your kindness, but it is time for me to try those OWIs. : )

The only thing is, I can't find anyone selling a pair.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

I only have one pair of OWI's and want to keep them...  

However, I do have two pairs of the OWI-fs tweeters that I got from Dave Ellis a while back. The -fs models use a small amount of ferro-fluid and the impedance rise is a bit smaller and lower in the response curve. Although I'm a little tentative to go quite that low, Dave tells me he's run his down to 1.6 kHz with a 4th order x-over. I've had a pair once before... they are indistinguishable from the standard I's and can take 2 kHz all day long.

I've yet to do anything with either pair... never seen power or a soldering iron. Let me know if you're interested or if I can help in any way. Btw, my e-mail is inoperative at this time, so pm me through this forum.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Tyler, 

Got your pm and sent you an e-mail.


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

Kevin,


I was in the car with an RTA for a number of hours, I'm also aware of the response differences in the 1's and 2's. They are crossed, I believe at 5k.
Even when attenuated and tuned about right to ear and the RTA, they don't sound good IMO. Perhaps checking the level matching (to ear) the tweeter would be the last thing I can think of, otherwise they are just not that pleasant compared to the 1's...IMO


Tyler, 

Check the levels of the left side vs right side mids and tweets independantly with some pink noise. Though they will sound tonally different, they should be about the same volume. Because of the tonality difference it can be hard to tell, but just do an ear check to make sure they are close. My next advice would be to check with some Maxima owners and see how they have set up their car to sound good. In this game many times you have to build the system around the car.

Also, sorry about the crossover point, I forgot you wouldn't be listening to chesky cd's all day  Bump it up to where it needs to be and fill in the gap with the EQ. That car has a lot of gain in the 40-60 region so you can leave a gap between the midbass and subs to avoid drawing the stage back which may happen if you bump the subs up. I try to keep subs crossed at 40, but with some meddling you can go as high as 60 w/o drawing the stage back. Some claim higher, but its a compromise IMO. 

Since you have some home stuff floating around, you could try swapping the excels out for something else and see if the imaging appears at all. I think Scott B. used DLS domes in that car...


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Kevin,

I emailed you back. Please let me know if it made it to you.

Josh,

I am afraid my home drivers will not fit in my kickpanels. 

No need to feel sorry about the crossover point, I need to figure things out on my own once in a while.

I have picture of Kevin K,'s car it also appears his mids hide under the dash like mine. if you would like, I can send you some pics, I do not think Kevin would mind. He also uses the W15 at times. I think it just may be the direction and placement of the midrange, as I have seen many midranges under the dash get great reviews. Hmm...


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Tyler,

Nope, didn't receive your e-mail... my e-mail is DOA and I can only receive pm's through this forum.  

I forget what pics I sent you, but you are more than welcome to forward them on to Josh.  

What's the LP x-over of your Excel W12's...? When using my Excel 15's, I've found that too high a x-over on those magnesium drivers can have a deleterious effect on the treble. And, I've forgotten, where are the OWII's installed?

Josh,

Hello! Did you find that you had to do much in the way of gain/level matching to get the OWII's to work with the Excels?

Something you may find, if you can get them on the RTA again, is that by x-ing the OWII's a little lower than the 5 kHz you mention you will find that they get stronger... maybe try 3.2 kHz and see what happens? And, then, level match and eq accordingly... you might be able to make a different approach and have a bit more to work with...?

The above is a suggestion that comes to mind, but it does sound like you've got things pretty much under control. If it doesn't work, then you've got the OWI's to work with... and, yes, given the choice, I probably like them a bit more than the II's...


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Forgot to ask... what about reflections? Since the OW's (any model) have such great off-axis response, that is always a consideration.

Like I said, I don't remember where the tweets are installed or how they are oriented. And, you both have probably already taken the possibility of reflections into consideration, but it's another idea that came to mind that I'd be remiss if I didn't at least ask.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Photos can be found here:

http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/tf1216/

I should have never sold those OWIs. : )

I have the W12s crossed over at 250 Hz right now.

We also tried crossing the Hiquphon over lower. Josh kept raising the HP XO point to rid the system of its brightness.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

How high are you running the Excels? And, with what slope?


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

I think they go up to 2 kHz with 24 or 36 dB/oct slopes. I will have to check.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Something else... have you tried listening to see if the tweets still sound 'hot' when the driver side window is down?


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

haha yes! 

its still there, not as painful but still there


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

So, maybe a bit of a reflection-related problem...  

Still, I'd like to help with getting these drivers to work for you and save you some moolah...  If not, well then I guess you'll just "have" to get some OWI's... hey now! 

Both the OWII's and the Seas Excel 12's are 8 Ohm drivers with the OWII's having about 90 db sensitivity and the Excels somewhere around 85 or 86 db...

What amp or amps are running the mids and tweets? How do you adjust for gain/level? And, what are the respective levels set at?

Find out the x-over points from mids to tweets yet?


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

I am at the hospital visiting a friend right now but I will have the XO points as soon as I get home.

I have a 4.0 on the mids and tweeters. I have 6.0s on the door speakers and the subwoofers. Josh set the gains for me on the amps and I have to admit I like the levels much more now. The gains are barely above minimum right now. There exact position I am not sure but they are really low.

Stupid question Kevin, but will ferro fluid freeze? I really want to try different Hiquphons, I can't stop thinking about it : )


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

The midranges are HP @ 315 Hz with 36 dB/oct slope; LP @ 5 kHz with 24 dB/oct slope
The tweeters are HP @ 4 kHz with 36 dB/oct slope


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Hope your friend is o.k.  

Interesting (to me anyway) question about the ferro-fluid's potential for freezing and I have absolutely no idea...  

Thanks for the x-over info.

Did you get my last e-mail with the info about the mids and kick panel baffles? Just sent you another message.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Yes, I did get your last email. I am guessing you never got my reply. Hmm...


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

The crossover slopes/points are unimportant (meaning you can change them) after getting somewhere decent tonally, I was messing with them to see if I could get some imaging...change away! 

Overlapping the mid and tweet seemed to add some center, and the excels ended up there as I was trying to get stage height. The bump your kicks are adding in that range drag the stage down. They Xovers are where they are as we ran out of time, not because that is where they should be...

The center problem is a combo of the midbass and excels as neither are making a strong center. The tweeters are imaging ok.


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

kevin k. said:


> Tyler,
> 
> Josh,
> 
> ...


 I didn't try to dial the OW2 in lower than 4-5k as I just didn't like the way it sounded below that.

The 2 is the least of his worries at this point, there are some install/acoustical issues that need addressing. Sadly, I don't have time to help him with that.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Hi Josh,

Good to hear from you and thanks for the info! I hope you don't misconstrue my questions as offensive... the absolute last thing I want to do... I'm just throwing out some suggestions and asking for details as I am all the way across the country and would like to help Tyler save some money if possible. Cool...?  

My tweets and mids are actually overlapped a bit, as well, because I found the output of the mids to fall off somewhat the higher I ran them and a little overlapping with the tweets helped to bolster the response.

Yep, running the OWII's down below 4.5 kHz to 5 kHz is going to put you below that "shelf" and everything above is now about 2 db higher and is going to seem, relatively, even hotter.

"there are some install/acoustical issues that need addressing."... Man, I hear ya... got a few those myself.   The thing that sucks, is once I hear an anomaly, then I will hear it from here on out until I fix it.


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

kevin k. said:


> Hi Josh,
> 
> Good to hear from you and thanks for the info! I hope you don't misconstrue my questions as offensive... the absolute last thing I want to do... I'm just throwing out some suggestions and asking for details as I am all the way across the country and would like to help Tyler save some money if possible. Cool...?



I'm not taking it that way. I've read your posts for a long time on ECA, you know a lot, a lot more about the scientific stuff than I do. Any help/advice you give I will absorb humbly and graciously, I'm well aware that I don't know everything. I do know what a car is supposed to sound like though...if Tyler thinks he is hooked now once he hears George's car, he will be on a mission to acheive that...probably forever, like the rest of us. 

Think carefully Tyler...red pill? or blue pill?


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Red pill? Blue pill?...

I will take both if it will make me want to sing and dance in my car every morning on the way to work.

As of now, I have the right side kickpanel angled towards the center of the windshield and my left hand free to hold down any panels from vibrating. I think I have my installations problems covered : )

Sorry for the lame reply! I'm a little grumpy today.


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

Tyler, where you have other drivers laying around, one thing I may try before rebuilding kicks would be to replaces the seas with another driver and see if that helps or does anything at all.

I think the x-over point may be the problem with the midbass not imaging, and I think the drivers side leg is blocking a lot as well. However, the midrange continues to baffle me...get it..."baffle" lol. Thats why I'm curious as to how a swap out will change the behavior of your car. My car was about as reflection free as they come stock and I had a similar problem with the excels that I didn't have with other drivers....


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Unfortunately, I do not have another 4" driver around that I can swap out with the W12.

Between you and Kevin I have gotten a ton of good advice but I am afraid I do not know where to start. I really feel I need to go back to square one starting with the addition of more sound deadener and more time finding the optimum placement of the drivers.

Your pun was a good one!


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Hey guys, I hope you two are still around!

I think I got my hands on some OWIs. I have tossed the idea of a compact dome back and forth. I know I do not have much of basis to compare tweeters against one another but the Hiquphon does something right for me.

With that said, I really need to figure out how to get my speakers to image better. I am OK with making new kickpanels but I need to know whether to stick with the W12s or try the 5" nextels. Right now, those are what I am interested in.

I love what Kevin is able to do with switching speakers in and out. Josh, what is your advice? How do I test different speaker locations for imaging? I have never heard great imaging in a car so your suggestions may lead to a dead-end. 

I will be pulling my subs and building a new box per Josh's suggestion. I want to have a competition capable car neglecting the fact the appearance is not eye-pleasing. 

What to do next?


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

For your subs you can just plug the hole (unless the appearance will bother you) The enclosure will be a bit large but I find that I end up with a larger box size than the company recomends most of the time anyway...I just prefer the alignment. If you think too big still, pop a sub out and start filling the box with some solid material till you get the sound you want....building a whole new one isn't really necessary, and as far as SQ is concerned its easy to remove their aggression with your processing. 

With the midrange you are using you could go compact dome in the sale/pillar if you want...I've heard good things about the Rainbows Manny uses (from people other than Manny) and I believe the rear chamber is removable for a much smaller mounting depth...I can't remember where I read that though so don't take it to the bank. This would also free up some space for better aiming of kicks/different mounting options. Don't toss the compact tweet idea completely, you would be amazed at the quality of some of them. 

The OW1 is great if you want to do that route, it seems like you do. IMO, I haven't heard all the tweeters out there, but I've heard a number of the tippity-top notch ones...and the OW1 is just an amazing performer for the asking price, very enjoyble to listen to.

I wouldn't go with a bigger midrange if you do switch...your kick area is tiny to begin with. I would try with what you have first....I would stuff a towell in the holes we made in the back and use the kicks to try different angles. My first check would be the path of least reflections and see if that fixes your imaging at all. Your next pair of kicks however you need to secure them to the car somehow...a single bolt will do it but you have to incorporate that in to the design...where is the bolt going to go. And vent them into the carpet. 

If you really wanted to switch I would consider a nice dome which I think has worked well in that car, or hop to the scan speak rev's. They perform well in kicks will give you the detail you are looking for. They are also up on ebay frequently and a much easier driver to work with as far as tuning is concerned compared to the excel. 

Most importantly - I'm not sure if you have done this yet, it seems to be the only thing I've said that you don't seem eager to do, but your car can be tricky, lots of reflective surfaces, unfriendly door panels, cramped space blocking lots of sound...what I would do, is search my heart out for cars like yours that have worked...on the competition circuit or elsewhere, then base your design on that. In SQ (SPL too for that matter) you need to build the system around the car, not the other way around, having all the uber equipment in the world will never fix your cars inherent characteristics....you need to work around those. 

As for finding a car design...asking around about championship winning competitors/cars is one of the best ways IMO. I have found that people who don't compete often talk a lot, and some even have a lot of knowledge, then you listen to their car and realize they don't have a clue of what a car should sound like...all this time you've been taking advice from a yahoo with a boner for car audio that doesn't understand real world application. Though I don't agree with some of the competition stuff (SPL namely) if a car has won a national/world title it most likely sounded good, and wasn't just some guy saying it sounded good. You have the processing available to work with pretty much any design that will work...that is where I would start. 

George is coming down to for some final tuning some time in July...I'll be sure to let you know when so you can get a feel for what you are shooting for...


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Thanks Josh! I just got done putting the OWIs in and right off the bat I can hear the difference. With Mp3s and other recordings they are still slightly harsh but so far still acceptable.

I have tried your kickpanel configuration with my passenger side kickpanel and I put a big sweatshirt behind it. I have the kickpanel lying right in front of the passenger seat on the ground with both driver on-axis to my ears. I can not get any image at all yet though. I am going to have to experiment with the driver's side kickpanel.

I liked your idea of a sealed subwoofer enclosure because I can get some of my trunk space back. So there are two big positives with building another box. I do like your recommendation to tweak the ported box, I may try that first. Thank you!

I would love to hear George's car, if you guys can handle a third please let me know.


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## Eastcoast (Mar 26, 2005)

The EQ was around the fixing the OwII's characteristics so a straight swap out won't use the OW1's to their potential. YOu can experiment with the 6.3Khz and 8Khz region to see if you can tame the harshness.

Or just take a look the EQ in the upper range and try evening out the peaks and dips more and see where that gets you. 

You could just flatten the eq in that range all together, set the gain by ear and start over again. Keep in mind you can also cross that tweet at 2k with a 24 db slope or higher which may help your imaging.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

^^ Pretty much what Josh said...

The OWII's have greater sensitivity (90 db) than the OWI's (87 db), so already the I's gain level will need to be re-established. And, as already mentioned earlier in this thread, the OWI's and OWII's differ in their respective frequency response.

Might be best to do as Josh suggested and, first, flatten the eq from the OWII's settings and, second, set the level of the I's by ear. And ,third, once the level seems right, experiment with eq-ing. The off-axis response (30 degree) is ruler-flat, so you may not need a lot of eq-ing anyway.


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