# Does a bad ground = less bass?



## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

I changed subs from a JL 12w3 to a Shiva 12" x2 with a JL hd 750/1. I now have a slight audible pop when turning on and off. I know this problem should be from a ground and I'm going to check the ground later tonight.

Playing a song with a lot of hard bass, I got this pop but it was much louder and then the sub continued playing just fine. Volume was moderately high but not near max. I'm assuming this was a bad ground as well?

Can a bad ground make the bass sound less? And in a sealed enclosure, if you have air leaking around where the sub seals, can that decrease the bass?


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## FLAstrongman (Sep 22, 2010)

yes to both questions. Bad grounds can cause all sorts of havoc. And you always want a good seal on any enclosure.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

These are my grounds for both amps - Zapco 360.2 and JL HD 750/1.

Thoughts?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

cajunner said:


> bad bad bad...


LOL

This is a ground


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

Dang, that terminal is wicked! Where'd you pick it up. In the meantime, what can I do with the current location?


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

That's my ground!

Seriously though, cajunner had it right. Bad, bad, bad. Fix that ASAP


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

trevordj said:


> Seriously though, cajunner had it right. Bad, bad, bad. Fix that ASAP


like now...


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

StreetWires GT14 Ground Terminal 4 AWG | Parts-Express.com

$10 for a 4ga

With all due respect, do you really work as an install manager of a 12V company?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

trevordj said:


> That's my ground!
> 
> Seriously though, cajunner had it right. Bad, bad, bad. Fix that ASAP


It was for reference; not claiming it as my own work. Man you spotted that fast. lol


Havinnoj, are the wires so short that they will not reach anywhere else?


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

Lol I just found them there! I'm waiting on the experts to lmk what I can do in the meantime before I get those terminals? And why are the terminals better than just mounting the ends to the metal? It's all the same isn't it?

So while I wait, do I grind more paint off, or...


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> It was for reference; not claiming it as my own work. Man you spotted that fast. lol
> 
> 
> Are the wires so short that they will not reach anywhere else?


No no no, I know you weren't taking credit. I was just exclaiming that I recognized it.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

havinnoj said:


> Lol I just found them there! I'm waiting on the experts to lmk what I can do in the meantime before I get those terminals? And why are the terminals better than just mounting the ends to the metal? It's all the same isn't it?
> 
> So while I wait, do I grind more paint off, or...


ditch the self tappers for a bolt


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

havinnoj said:


> Lol I just found them there! I'm waiting on the experts to lmk what I can do in the meantime before I get those terminals? And why are the terminals better than just mounting the ends to the metal? It's all the same isn't it?
> 
> So while I wait, do I grind more paint off, or...


Disconnect your main fuse until you are prepared to do it right (again not trying to come off like a jerk, just saying what I would do). I would be concerned for any other "issues" in the car.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> Are the wires so short that they will not reach anywhere else?


I have some flexibility - about 1' of ground to move around.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

trevordj said:


> Disconnect your main fuse until you are prepared to do it right (again not trying to come off like a jerk, just saying what I would do). I would be concerned for any other "issues" in the car.


Not at all bro. What's your idea of the proper way? And what other issues?

Are the ring terminals bad to use compared to the street wires mentioned above?


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

havinnoj said:


> Not at all bro. What's your idea of the proper way? And what other issues?
> 
> Are the ring terminals bad to use compared to the street wires mentioned above?


Well, this is my ground but this is by no means the only way to do it. 










Here is another one of my grounds 










Honestly, you don't have to have a terminal like the streetwires one, it just needs to be bolted down solidly to the chassis stripped to bare metal with a high quality terminal. This second one is a cheap crimp terminal (costs a dollar or two iirc).


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

it's not the ring terminals, it's the attachment to the vehicle


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## Ziggy (Nov 29, 2007)

My 0g ground to the frame - big threaded bolt and tapped threads through the frame rail, cleaned and buffed shiny metal contact:


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok thanks guys. So can I do this: Remove all paint and clean the area. I'd be doing this in the same or in close proximity to the current ground. And use a bolt to mount the same ring terminals as in the picture? I'm going to get started. Pics to come. Give me your thoughts as I fix this today!

I can get the streetwire terminals from a local shop for about $10 bucks each. Unless they make a difference I'm not going to grab them.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

if you can get a bolt into the frame, you don't need the block.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

One of the screws was broken. The other two were fine. I had magnetic shavings. I'm going to go sand the area clean. 

1st pic is before, second is after.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

SublimeZ said:


> if you can get a bolt into the frame, you don't need the block.


Is the area my ring terminals are currently mounted to considered the "frame" or just metal?


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

that doesn't look like frame to me. Can you get a bolt thru the big hole?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

havinnoj said:


> Is the area my ring terminals are currently mounted to considered the "frame" or just metal?


It's just metal, and we don't know if it's a good ground or not. Personally, I wouldn't even reuse that spot, I'd look for something stronger and more directly connected to the battery, like the frame.

If you decide to reuse that spot, at least for now, grind off more of that paint and use some dielectric grease to prevent rust.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

SublimeZ said:


> that doesn't look like frame to me. Can you get a bolt thru the big hole?


It's big enough but I dont have a good way to get a nut on the back side. 

But this place is good for using those the street wire terminals?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

havinnoj said:


> It's big enough but I dont have a good way to get a nut on the back side.
> 
> But this place is good for using those the street wire terminals?


We need to know what that metal is attached to. It doesn't matter what terminal you use if the current doesn't have a good path back to the battery. Thin sheet metal that may not be connected to the rest of the car by anything more than a couple of weld or glue isn't going to work well.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

it isn't optimal. I would look for an existing bolt or lug to tie to


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok guys. I believe it's the frame. I'll go shoot an overview shot but it's the back of a truck. Here are some pics of the area I'm working with.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

I would use one of the seat bolts or the one in the second pic


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

SublimeZ said:


> I would use one of the seat bolts or the one in the second pic


That one is a big ass bolt and I don't think it's for the seat. The seat tracks mount completely as seen in the first pic.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

The zapco is mounted on the back wall of the truck. The JL is under the rear seat.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

trevordj said:


> With all due respect, do you really work as an install manager of a 12V company?


RCS is me so no. And no I didn't do this install.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok so I can put it on the floor pan like you said. Would mounting it to one of the seat track bolts be better?


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

That big bolt (middle pic top of this page) mounts to the frame under the cab. I can't get that bolt out as it's torqued down like crazy. Does that make a difference about mounting to the floor pan?


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

if it were me, I'd go to the seat track. Between the track and body. Clean all the paint off.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

havinnoj said:


> RCS is me so no. And no I didn't do this install.


Again, I didn't mean any disrespect. I would say take it back to whoever did the install and demand they fix it, but I would stay as far away from this installer as possible. It looks like you are on the right track now. If I found something like that I would go through the rest of the wiring with a fine toothed comb. If an installer takes a shortcut like that it is not likely an isolated incident.


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

cajunner said:


> let me guess, you don't have a drill?
> 
> if no, then use the center punch to widen the hole where you're already at. It's not the area that's bad, most likely but the way you mounted the ground lugs before that was the problem.
> 
> if you use a center punch, (don't have one? try a big philips head screwdriver, but make sure it's not as big around as the new bolt, you did get that bolt, right?) then be sure the new bolt has to "cut" the threads, so that you have something when you're done.



Lol I have both.

I went to a good local shop and ended up picking up a streetwires kit. They thought it would be fine to mount it there.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

havinnoj said:


> Lol I have both.
> 
> I went to a good local shop and ended up picking up a streetwires kit. They thought it would be fine to mount it there.


I personally think you will be ok as well. Some sources I have read actually recommend mounting to the body/chassis vs. the frame especially in more modern vehicles. This is up for debate however and I am sure there are equally passionate arguments for mounting to the frame.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I was thinking more along these lines: 




Andy Wehmeyer said:


> I don't buy it. The chassis as a ground is a better conductor than a 0 AWG cable attached to the battery. Everythigng in the car is grounded to the chassis. If i were you, I'd crank it and drive around to see if you get the light again.





Andy Wehmeyer said:


> No. Ground the amp to the sheet metal in the car and don't bother with the Big three or four or whatever, unless the ground from the alternator to the chassis and/or from the battery to the chassis is less than an 8 AWG or more than a few feet long. Grounding to the frame is probably the reason for the noise. Nothing in the car is grounded to the big fat frame rails. There's plenty of cross-sectional area in the sheet metal...
> 
> I don't think the warning light has anything to do with the stereo.


But again, I think you could make an argument either way. The truth is, if you are thinking and planning enough to get the ground connection proper either will likely do just fine.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

cajunner said:


> I wasn't sure if that first pic was an intentional joke or not...


I don't know what you are referring to.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

cajunner said:


> the first pic by the thread originator showcasing the ground of ill repute.


I know you were referring to that picture, but what made you think it was a joke? It seems like the guy was honestly looking for some assitance. :shrug:


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## stangman67 (Apr 8, 2009)

Good grounds are one of the most important things to pay attention to. I haad a battery with bad grounds and it cause MAJOR voltage drops. I always try to ground to a major structutal part of the car. Frame rails, seat mounting bolts, etc.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Got your 50 yet (43 posts in 1 hour)?


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

trevordj said:


> Got your 50 yet (43 posts in 1 hour)?


Some people don't like to seem like a noob with low post count; doesn't always mean they are trying to sell stuff, but usually does. He has long term accounts under the same name at other CA Forums, unless he stole the user name.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

He said in a post that he wanted to sell stuff here.


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## stangman67 (Apr 8, 2009)

Looks like you caught me. Yes I would like to sell some stuff here, because I feel like this forum is more suited to sell some of my stuff. I have been a member of caraudio. com and caraudioforum.com for a few years now and have plenty of contribution there. I just have never really been deep into the sound quality portion of this hobby until recently. I got suggested that I put up my rli 8's here since this is a sq oriented forum.


If you read my "50 posts in one hour", they all have some type of contribution. I have a good deal of knowledge. If anyone feels like this is a problem, so be it. I'll disappear.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I can't blame a guy for wanting to sell stuff but it gets frustrating seeing the forum cluttered with useless posts. I am sure you have some excellent experience and knowlege which I am excited to benefit from. Maybe you could post a build log or something?


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## stangman67 (Apr 8, 2009)

I don't exactly have any logs, I do have a bunch of pics from previous installs. One which included a diyma r12. Still my favorite sub to date


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey guys I wish I was joking and didn't have to spend the afternoon fixing it but it is what it is. I tested out the new ground and I'll post up pics soon. I'll take some other pics of the wiring too.. But remember it's for real!


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