# Old school amplifier repair shops



## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

Don't know if this was covered already, I searched didn't find anything specific.

I'm sure there are others in the same boat as I am, needing repair of their prized old amplifiers. I got an e-mail back from DB-r electronics and they said they don't work on old equipment, and they recommended I contact Zedaudio.

I have a tech that I go to locally that mainly specializes in really old equipment, 50's & 60's tv's, home stereo equipment, he used to work for a Sony repair facility and repaired radio station transmitting equipment, and he also does state of the art video editing equipment, he's very good and reasonable, to me at least.

Right now he has a Aiwa cassette deck that I know he's ready to throw across the room, LOL. I spoke to him today and he told me to bring my amp to him and he would look at it. We'll see if he see's something obvious.

But any other shops that people here have used and can recommend? I know about United Radio in upstate NY, they worked on a few of my head units way back but they don't work on anything that the company is not in business, makes getting parts difficult.

Also does anyone have any service manuals or schematics they would like to share, possibly a new section could be created for them.

Thanks


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## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

ahardb0dy said:


> But any other shops that people here have used and can recommend? I know about United Radio in upstate NY, they worked on a few of my head units way back but they don't work on anything that the company is not in business, makes getting parts difficult.


A member on these boards does a huge amount of repairs. From feedback ive seen he's extremely professional and a wiz at repairs. Look up *envisionelec* 

Have you received my email???


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes, wrote back already


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

ahardb0dy said:


> Don't know if this was covered already, I searched didn't find anything specific.
> 
> I'm sure there are others in the same boat as I am, needing repair of their prized old amplifiers. I got an e-mail back from DB-r electronics and they said they don't work on old equipment, and they recommended I contact Zedaudio.
> 
> ...


Read this first and it will change your entire approach to repairing your old school amps.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eries-2-amplifier-reconditioning-repairs.html

Then go contact Aaron (Envisionelec).

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

I will add another positive response for Aaron and Envision Electronics. He has done several jobs for me at very reasonable prices.


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

I read you thread, seems involved to repair and refresh these amps. I just want my amp fixed, I haven't even seen anyone else mention this particular amp since I've been on here the last few days. Thanks


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## Vanlan (Jul 20, 2011)

hmm, i've got a a/d/s/ ph15.2 with some shorted outputs. be nice to get it repaired. i may have to contact aaron.


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

I sent him a PM earlier, hopefully he will be able to tell me something.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

I have a HUGE stash of the old school Nakamichi amps. (PA400/300/200) and some of them are beginning to need the P/S caps replaced. I'd like to find someone who understands and appreciates the old school amps and has the ability to fully restore them to factory specs ...not just stick the cheapest part in them just to get them going. I've been referred to Zed ...but IMO when Zed began making the Nak amps they were no where close to the previous models. 


>^..^<


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Read this first and it will change your entire approach to repairing your old school amps.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eries-2-amplifier-reconditioning-repairs.html
> 
> ...


Bret where can I get that Kapton tape from I'd like to give it try thanks for any help


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## WRX2010 (Jun 11, 2011)

I have only read impressive things from Aaron @ Envision.

Ampman, I have seen it every now and then on Ebay. I would check online.

Howard Electronics has it: Your Web Store film%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates\Templates\SearchResult.html[/URL]


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

It's made by Dupont and I have seen it on ebay as well.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks y'all I found some on eBay and placed an order cant wait to try it out to see how well it works thanks again for the info


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Just got my Kapton tape in today I got three rolls each are 30 mm x 33 m $14.88 for all three rolls free shipping hope I didnt do to bad going to try it out on a old school MTX TERMINATOR MTA250 thanks for all the help fellows


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## $LICK CALIFA$ (Feb 9, 2012)

good luck on the mtx!
I'm gonna eventually check up on Aaron @ Envision since I'm hearing nothing but good things about him. I have a mmats dhcx2200.1, ppi 2300am, and a few others to be repaired


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

$LICK CALIFA$ said:


> good luck on the mtx!
> I'm gonna eventually check up on Aaron @ Envision since I'm hearing nothing but good things about him. I have a mmats dhcx2200.1, ppi 2300am, and a few others to be repaired


I'll get to it one day I hope soon seems like other stuff always comes up and those projects get put on the back burner so I'll get it one day


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Ampman said:


> Just got my Kapton tape in today I got three rolls each are 30 mm x 33 m $14.88 for all three rolls free shipping hope I didnt do to bad going to try it out on a old school MTX TERMINATOR MTA250 thanks for all the help fellows


I think it's great that you're willing to do it on your own.
I don't have the nerve (BALLS) because I think I will screw something up.
I'm the same way with car restorations.
I'll do absolutely everything but paint and bodywork.

Now, back to your amp.
Make sure you've got a good clean and polished surface to apply it too.
And take your time.

Actually, why don't you start a thread with lots of pics showing the process?
This is DIYma after all and many would learn along with you. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

Just heard back from Perry Babin, he's not taking in any new work, the Search for a tech continues.....


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## $LICK CALIFA$ (Feb 9, 2012)

ahardb0dy said:


> Just heard back from Perry Babin, he's not taking in any new work, the Search for a tech continues.....


keep us posted!


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

starting to lose hope this amp will ever get repaired, if anyone knows of any shop or person working on these older amps and is good please share it, thanks


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## jasonflair (Dec 17, 2010)

I found these guys searching online for some Alpine manuals. I have never used them. You may want to give them a call? Hope you find someone to fix your amp. Good luck. 

Audio Video Service Labs

829 Lynnhaven Parkway Suite 128 
Virginia Beach, VA 23452-7224

Lynnhaven Crossing Shopping Center 
on the ring road around Lynnhaven Mall 
Hours: 9:30am - 5:30pm, Monday - Friday

(757) 340-7143 (Audio Video Service Labs) 
(757) 340-1702 (Kenwood Service Center East) 
(757) 340-6809 (FAX)


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

sent them an e-mail, thanks


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

Well that company doesn't look good, this is what I got back from them today:

"Like many car amplifiers. those are factory service, only. It can probably be arranged through your selling dealer."


ok


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

ahardb0dy said:


> Well that company doesn't look good, this is what I got back from them today:
> 
> "Like many car amplifiers. those are factory service, only. It can probably be arranged through your selling dealer."
> 
> ...


WTF?

Did they even read what your e-mail?

Bret
PPI-ART-COLLECTOR


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

I told them it was a 90's era amp


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

All I can say is if The Stig changes his mind and decides to take in other amps for repairs, I will let you all know.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## ahardb0dy (Feb 19, 2012)

I'll sell mine to you, have him fix it than sell it back to me


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I think it's great that you're willing to do it on your own.
> I don't have the nerve (BALLS) because I think I will screw something up.
> I'm the same way with car restorations.
> I'll do absolutely everything but paint and bodywork.
> ...


I thought about that but wasn't sure if I would or not but who knows it might help someone else give it a try as well thanks Bret y'all have a bless one


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I thought I would post this e-mail from The Stig in this thread as well since there is a growing demand for his services in this and other threads.

Here's a message from The Stig regarding the problem of finding a good tech to fix old school amps:

I wish I had a easy answer for SWAMPWADER, but I currently have 22 car amps and 6 EQ's waiting. Being a one man operation I tend to get backed up easily with amp restorations. I know that there is a huge market for my services but I am just one person. And if I let everyone send me there gear I would have to buy or rent storage for all the vintage amps out there that folks want brought back to "Like New or Better" operation. 
The fact is that none of this gear was meant to last for ever, no matter how well designed it might have been. And any restoration takes a lot longer then a standard repair on newer gear do. < hence why so many shops decline offers to work on vintage gear, they know it will be a lengthy repair process in most cases. lots of parts and time without exception>.

RESTORATION: Requires at best a lot of component replacement to happen to be any good, especially expendable component like electrolytic caps which don't age so well. Newer components are better made and to higher tolerances than those that were available when vintage gear was built so things tend to get real deep real fast. So the average tech can get buried real quickly with hard engineering mathematics to make things work like they're supposed to with newer components.

I had hoped that all the details I allowed PPI Art Collector to post would spur other tech's to take on the initiative to do it right. But alas I think the day to day schedules of most other tech's are too rigidly administered to allow them the proper professional luxury to do the complete job at hand " Like It Was Their Own Gear". The latter part is also hard to find since it isn't taught by colleges and is not on the standard agenda of most business's.

When I open up a person,s gear on my bench, I see myself owning this exact same piece of gear. I ask myself how far would I go to bring it back to life. And the answer is always the same; as far as it's needed to be "Just Like New or Better". This is what I would expect from any service person, and I get disappointed a lot when I see how others treat my property. Like my car for example. I watch any mechanic working on it. I know better then most what is needed when I need services of any kind. So I watch any one providing me services to make sure I'm just not another PITA for their work day.

Enthusiasm: 
Either you got it for what you do or you don't. I have seen other tech's grab work and treat it like an indestructible piece of ugly steel. Bend it here and twist it there, and slam it down on the bench like a sack of potatoes. They are rushed and constrained by a schedule to finish as much work as fast as possible, so they can fart off the rest of the day. Or they just hate what they do for a living. Either way none of this is any good for you the client.
For me this is never the case as I have work lined up till next month. So to rush is to invite mistakes that would slow me down even more then my current work load. I even wrap each and every amp in my shop in cotton towels or bubble wrap when I finish my work on them to protect them. I do this to also help protect the finsih of the amps as in most cases I have taken time to clean the powder coating as much as possible and treat them to prevent future marks and scuffs to their finish while they wait to be picked up or shipped. Oh and I double box ALL my amps being shipped. it costs me more both in time and materials but this is what I would want it if was "MY GEAR".


WORK LOAD: 
I personally ship all my own gear out, and I receive all the incoming gear also. I talk at any length necessary to a client so we both are on the same page all the way through the restoration process. Then I do all the work and advise the client all the way through the process until it is completed and tested. And in PPI Art Collector's case, I sent detailed test results to post in his thread along with photo's of the work being performed. Oh and I return all replaced parts to all my clients, its state law where I live. All this takes time, and professional effort. Most tech's don't have either of these nowadays.

The business is what it is, and the only thing I can do to improve this situation is to do "my work" as if it was "my own gear", and "as extreme as needed to be absolutely correct in every way". I feel bad that many of your forum members don't feel that they can find this in their search for proper professional services. But I am but one person with 30 years of experience and most people my age are way out of this business when they get my age. It does not pay enough for most people, and then there are the issues of self satisfaction with one's work that many people look at and see as an endless road of little satisfaction with restoring vintage gear. Either you love what you do or you don't do it. I happen to love restoring this old gear to it's former glory so that a time and era in my life will live on, and this industry that was so American in its beginnings, will live on after my passing.


I could look at SWAMPWADER's A200 but I just don't want to have the entire inrush of people from your large forum come at me all at once. It would be impossible for me to answer all the e-mails; let alone the do the work. And I would become another heated post on your forum of poor service like I have seen others do in the past. I am not famous, and I don't need to be at my age. I have enough work to keep me busy for a couple months even without lifting a finger to sell or advertize myself. And try as I might, there will be even more work as the next few months go by. I even have old clients calling me asking me to please look at their gear from when I had local services available in a brick and mortar shop. I am blessed I guess you could say to be so much better off then any brick and mortar shop out there. But I been doing this for 30 years, or when Aaron was 5 as I like to look at it LOL...
With that much time at anything, word is bound to get around if your any good at all at what you do.

You can post any of what I said above on your forum at your discretion to help explain to the many why I am "The Stig" and will remain that way until I figure out some way to professionally service all their needs without disappointing any of them.

End of e-mail

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

"Stig", great message which is fair and true. Maybe @PPI Art Collector could set the "stig" up on YouTube I'm sure he would receive a lot of views maybe even some pocket money for something he's already doing anyway, and post the vids on here. I'd be interested in learning some advice and restoration tips.Don't let this type of knowledge be lost encourage the "stig" to record his work. My 2c


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Prime mova said:


> "Stig", great message which is fair and true. Maybe @PPI Art Collector could set the "stig" up on YouTube I'm sure he would receive a lot of views maybe even some pocket money for something he's already doing anyway, and post the vids on here. I'd be interested in learning some advice and restoration tips.Don't let this type of knowledge be lost encourage the "stig" to record his work. My 2c


I'll pass that onto him. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## $LICK CALIFA$ (Feb 9, 2012)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I thought I would post this e-mail from The Stig in this thread as well since there is a growing demand for his services in this and other threads.
> 
> Here's a message from The Stig regarding the problem of finding a good tech to fix old school amps:
> 
> ...


spoken like a *true experienced* professional!


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

The Stig has sent me another e-mail that details how to do some of your own amplifier diagnosing including a pdf file that includes a diagram.

Here it is:

This post applies to class AB amps only. Class D does not apply to any of this as they are totally different approach to amplification design.

I am attaching a pdf file of where to measure the bias idle voltage on a given set of outputs (the first ones pictured in this case) for you to post in response to post #127 AMPMAN's inquiry about how to set Bias voltage. He will at least need to know where to measure at. And without any Voltage drop across those resistors then they are typically class B amplifiers by technical definition. 

On a finer note: The picture I sent shows only the bias for those two outputs as a single output pair being measured. In the case where there are large arrays of outputs like pictured in the attachment the readings should be checked across each pair of resistors for each pair of outputs. 
The document may look familiar to many veteran tech's as it's devices are common to another brand name of amp on the market. It was part of their tech documents for final test and alignment on new and repaired car amps. 
So any trolls out there be warned your pissing and arguing with a manufacturers testing methods. Plus if you disagree please go back to school and get your degree, it will all make more sense then.

Also when I final test an amp, I actually read each individual emitter resistor's V drop to see if there are any poorly matched outputs of a pair in the group. Big variations in V drop across each individual resistor will be your tell all as to which transistors are likely to not current share evenly. In a PERFECT world each V drop will all read the same across each individual resistor for each individual output with + or - 5% tolerance allowing for the emitter resistor's tolerances. 
I have never seen a perfect world yet, so I use the info to try and replace outputs with the same characteristics so they all current share as evenly as possible when driven to full power. 
Your other option is to gain match sets of outputs for the large arrays with a curve tracer; a fairly expensive piece of test gear that I find invaluable to own if you want to repair amps and analogue pass elements of power supplies and what not, and install entire output arrays with all new devices that have matched characteristics. 

Emitter resistors burn up in value when an amp's output fails so be ready to replace them as needed or the amps output will be compromised since all the amps power flows through those emitter resistors to the speaker load. Any increase in the resistors value will impede the amps output voltage and current capabilities to the speaker load.

Oh and just because you buy transistors with the same date codes. Date codes do not even remotely mean they have matching characteristics in a amps output stage. Larger high quality amp companies order matched gain devices when they buy huge lots of devices for production runs, and even then they individually test each device prior to using them straight from the manufacturer. One of my best friends worked for a large brand name amp company and they tested all semiconductors prior to installation to prevent failures of the production lines product output. So what chance do you have getting matched devices buying bulk devices from a online vendor??? ZIP, Zero, Nada..ain't no way its gonna happen...

Tech's with any time inside amps will recognize what I have posted here as the truth. I just hope you all find it informative and helpful in your audio....."The Stig"

End of e-mail

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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