# Dayton RS100 with polk SR6500 Crossover



## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

Does anyone know the layout of the SR6500 crossovers well enough to aswner this?

The speaker position in my Xterra is simply awful.
No matter what I try I just cant get it to sound to my liking due to how off axis I am compared to the door speaker location.

To combat this I had what is probably a bad idea.
Any words of wisdom will be helpful.

I ordered a pair of Dayton RS100 mid ranges and will be connecting them in place of the SR6500 6.5" mids off of the crossovers. I will then power the 6.5s that will remain in the doors actively. So the SR6500 crossovers will split signals between the SR tweeters and the daytons. The tweets and daytons will be installed in reworked A-pillar custom pods I am building. Not having having any air bags in the pillars clearly indicates that they were intended for speakers 

I am concerned that if there is a zobel network or something funky in that crossover that I may have some problems with.

Here is the layout of the overall system. 
I actually have to send the Audio Control EQS out for repair so I hope to not use it at all if avoidable.


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## buchaja (Nov 10, 2007)

The SR crossover does have a zoebel (sp?) network. If your daytons are the same impedance, I say give it a try and see how it sounds.


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

define the "same"?

We talking within 0.1?
I cant find a sheet on the SR mid independently of the full system but each driver is roughly 4 ohms.


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

Sorry to say this is not going to work well. The Dayton RS100 is only 81 dB efficiency compared to the SR6500 woofer which has 90 dB efficiency. The tweeter is matched to the woofer meaning your tweeter will be playing 9-10 dB louder than the RS-100. That is a huge difference. You could pad down the tweeter response but you still have other problems. The RS100 has a large peak in its response around 12 KHz. The peak is 10 dB higher than the RS100 response at 3 KHz. You really need something called a notch filter in the crossover to deal with that peak if your driver is mounted up in the A Pillar. Even though that peak is beyond the probably crossover frequency, it will be audible. Polk also probably tailored the low pass filter for the woofer to match with the driver's mechanical properties and natural frequency response. There is no chance that the RS100 will have similar properties. 

If you don't have equipment to measure frequency response in your car, figuring out how to alter the SR6500 crossover for the RS100 is not possible. Your best bet would be to go active for the crossover between the RS100 and the SR6500 tweeter. Then, you will have a shot at tuning for best crossover frequency and level matching by ear.

BTW, I have a 2001 Pathfinder that is similar in layout to your Xterra and my stock speakers in the lower door sound like ****. The integration with the A pillar tweeters is terrible. I am going to install 3" Fountek drivers and a tweeter in the A pillar. I am using Dayton RS180's in the doors. I am using active crossovers for all drivers.


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

mda185 said:


> Sorry to say this is not going to work well. The Dayton RS100 is only 81 dB efficiency compared to the SR6500 woofer which has 90 dB efficiency. The tweeter is matched to the woofer meaning your tweeter will be playing 9-10 dB louder than the RS-100. That is a huge difference. You could pad down the tweeter response but you still have other problems. The RS100 has a large peak in its response around 12 KHz. The peak is 10 dB higher than the RS100 response at 3 KHz. You really need something called a notch filter in the crossover to deal with that peak if your driver is mounted up in the A Pillar. Even though that peak is beyond the probably crossover frequency, it will be audible. Polk also probably tailored the low pass filter for the woofer to match with the driver's mechanical properties and natural frequency response. There is no chance that the RS100 will have similar properties.
> 
> If you don't have equipment to measure frequency response in your car, figuring out how to alter the SR6500 crossover for the RS100 is not possible. Your best bet would be to go active for the crossover between the RS100 and the SR6500 tweeter. Then, you will have a shot at tuning for best crossover frequency and level matching by ear.
> 
> BTW, I have a 2001 Pathfinder that is similar in layout to your Xterra and my stock speakers in the lower door sound like ****. The integration with the A pillar tweeters is terrible. I am going to install 3" Fountek drivers and a tweeter in the A pillar. I am using Dayton RS180's in the doors. I am using active crossovers for all drivers.


IF I have a tweeter for the upper end, why would I even be concerned about 15 KHz on the RS mids? 

I have this:
Phonic America Phonic PAA3 Personal Audio Assistant RTA SPL and Phase Checker With USB Audio Test Equipment at Markertek.com

Assuming I go active, would it be alright to keep the polk tweeter?
Also can the lack of efficiency of the RS be overcome with power or is this just never going to be a high enough output before hitting its thermal limit?
I was going to power them off of my JL 300/4. 
However I guess I need to break out my old alpine MRV-5305 so I can bandpass them not to mention I will need 6 channels of amplification not 4.


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

The passive crossover on the SR6500 set will not be tuned to knock down that 12 KHz peak in the RS100 response. It is a high enough peak that some signal will get through the passive crossover and with the RS100 in the A Pillar, you will hear it because you are close to being on-axis with the speaker. It will interfere with the same frequencies coming from the tweeter. 

The PAA3 looks like a very cool piece of equipment. It will definitely be good enough for you to set amplifier levels and check how well your chosen crossover points are working. 

If you go active with 6 channels of amplification, you will be able to level match the RS100 with the tweeter by setting amplifier gains. This will let you do what you set out to do. It is definitely going to work better than trying to use the passive crossover from the SR6500.


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

Well I tried it and it worked rather well.

For an in car response its not too bad. 
The odd balls are at 400 hz there is a nasty 10 db spike but only in one spot, move the RTA a bit and its shifts around to near 600 hz or is completely goner. So I am attributing this to the car in that ne spot. It just sucks that the spot is at the drivers HEAD!.
160 hz is a little low, about 3db and 6 and 8 k are about 3db high. Other then that everything is within +/- 6db
Also there is heavy roll off above 8Khz at 6db/octive. 



















I had to start and finish these this weekend so there was only time for carpet. If I end up staying this way, I am going to rebuild with vinyl.
The wife actually picked the angle, which ended up creating a perfect balance for both front seats. However the tweeter is recessed back a little of the mid which is what I am assuming is causing the -3db role off above 8K.

I never hooked up the EQS (need to get it repaired crap load of alternator whine from it) so I only have the 3 rather crappy parametric EQs in the head unit to use.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Cool, but sanding and grill cloth FTW!


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Cool, but sanding and grill cloth FTW!


I bought grills, just haven't put them on yet, wife wanted to get to a 4th of July party so I was out of time.
Found a nice place online, chokes unlimited. grills were $1.26 each and they also had some great prices on fuses and such.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

1sty said:


> I bought grills, just haven't put them on yet, wife wanted to get to a 4th of July party so I was out of time.
> Found a nice place online, chokes unlimited. grills were $1.26 each and they also had some great prices on fuses and such.


Grills or grill cloth?


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Grills or grill cloth?


 Grills









Since this was a temp/test setup I didn't go to the extreme of all out fiberglass, vinyl, and custom grills/grill cloth.
That will be phase two.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

1sty said:


> Grills
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are pretty nice. They looks like they can be made to flow with the enclosure lines and come out looking seamless and as one continuous piece.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Whatz the enclosure size for the RS100's?


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

IB would be more accurate then enclosure as I have them. 
They play into the A-pillars panels.


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## Steak (Mar 16, 2006)

I want to try pretty much the same, but with the Audax HM100C0 instead of the dayton rs100. Any thoughts?
Audax HM100C0 4" Carbon Fiber Cone Woofer from Madisound

@ 1sty: I highly recommend you try the tweets on axis. I felt it made a huge difference in my seetup


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## 1sty (Jun 24, 2009)

when I tried them on axis, the tweeters just drew everything to them, so the balance SUCKED.
Once I can get an amp to go active with, I will try again.
Although I picked up some dedicated woofers and other tweeters for a completely active setup so I can move my polk components to another car.


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