# new Morel ultimo SC12 doesn't sound that good.



## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Hey guys. So I had my brand new Morel ultimo SC12 and alpine pdx-m6 installed today and I'm not really happy. It doesn't sound like an amazing sq woofer like everyone and all the reviews say it should. It is fast ill give it that but it just sounds boxy, woofy, and not defined I guess. I feel like my audiobahns from a few years ago had better sq then this. Is this aa box issue? What are your guys opinnions?


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

You got to give us some info, like box size, ported or sealed, what ohm you have it wired to.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

BeatsDownLow said:


> You got to give us some info, like box size, ported or sealed, what ohm you have it wired to.


x2
...How much break-in time, on it?


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Maybe an hour break in time. I just had it installed today. Its a sealed enclosure, but I dont know the size. Ill take some measurements later. Its also the 4ohm version.


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Don't know if you need this info but I still have stock speakers with pioneer deh-80prs HU


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

Sounds like improper box


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Type of car....


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

Sounds like improper box


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## emilime75 (Jan 27, 2011)

So, a friend of mine had the PDX M6 in his Infiniti with a single Alpine Type R. I was never thrilled with the sound and neither was he really, but we both suspected it was the sub's fault and not the amp. He then got a hold of some vintage Soundstream gear and swapped the M6 for a Ref1000S and holy ****...what an audible difference it made. Having heard what a difference it made in his car, I'd say ditch that Alpine. 




jnads87 said:


> Hey guys. So I had my brand new Morel ultimo SC12 and alpine pdx-m6 installed today and I'm not really happy. It doesn't sound like an amazing sq woofer like everyone and all the reviews say it should.


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Its a 2011 VW golf 2door. I'm thinking its a box issue too. I'm thinking I'm gonna build one soon. I'm gunna get the mmeasurements of this oone soon though.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

jnads87 said:


> Its a sealed enclosure,_* but I dont know the size. .*_


Not a good start lol....




jnads87 said:


> Don't know if you need this info but I still have stock speakers with pioneer deh-80prs HU


Could your issue be a lack of midbass? Or trying to drive the stock speakers too hard and that's what you're hearing? Just a thought..


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

south east customz said:


> Sounds like improper box


Agreed.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

You are running a Morel Ultimo SC and stock speakers? Seems like overkill in sq for a sub when you only have stock speakers. Could be the enclosure or amp. Maybe crossover point or lack of midbass or lack od break-in (takes way more than 1 hour) Or honestly (if you thought Audiobahns sound good), it could be that fact that you are unhappy with a sq sounding subwoofer system. Some people like coloration and exaggerated SPL and huge peaks with their subs. The Ultimo will play accurately what is on the recording. Maybe some eq work would help.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Sounds like a lack of low end bass and high expectations based on the opinions of others. Had you everheard one before you purchased it?


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

The issue def is not the midbass. It sounded fine before the sub and now that its in I cut the eq a little on the mids and set the crossovers so they're not playing so hard. It might seem like overkill now using stock speakers but I plan on upgrading the whole system. I'm doing it piece by piece. My next purchase will be component speakers. I'm not complaining at all about the output of the sub. The output is eexactly what I want. I dont want high spl at all. Its just the sound coming from the sub doesn't sound clear and defined. I'm not saying the audiobahns sounded good, I'm just saying the sounded better then the Morel. They were atleast clearish sounding. The subs lpf is set at 63hz with 18db slope and the mids hpf is set at 63hz with a 12db slope. If that helps.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

improper box
lack of defined and strong midbass to anchor the note
factory midbass causing cancellation with the sub
possible low pass freq too high


all can be possible factors, its never about just throwing in a high end sub and say, oh wow, look how great it does...your system is only going to sound as good as its weakest link.

edit, just saw you have a p80RS...try plaing with different low pass frequencies, and vary slopes and phase, see if you can get it to sound any better


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## duckymcse (Mar 15, 2009)

The thing with the Ultimo sub is that you either love it or hate it. 
I used to run the real Ultimo 12 (not SC) and no matter what size of box I throw at it, ranging from 1.2cuft - 2.0cuft, it just doesn't sound how I like the sub to sound. 
Especially, the first time I play this sub and my thinking is "is that it...where the bass?" But, it kinda grew on me for a while than later I got bored it it.
It's great SQ sub if you listen to mostly SQ type of music since it blend in very well with fast accurate bass.
But if you like hard hitting bass that pounce your back, it is certainly not the type of sub for you. I switch from Ultimo to 2xIDQ10 and I am so much happier.



jnads87 said:


> Hey guys. So I had my brand new Morel ultimo SC12 and alpine pdx-m6 installed today and I'm not really happy. It doesn't sound like an amazing sq woofer like everyone and all the reviews say it should. It is fast ill give it that but it just sounds boxy, woofy, and not defined I guess. I feel like my audiobahns from a few years ago had better sq then this. Is this aa box issue? What are your guys opinnions?


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## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

jnads87 said:


> Hey guys. So I had my brand new Morel ultimo SC12 and alpine pdx-m6 installed today and I'm not really happy. It doesn't sound like an amazing sq woofer like everyone and all the reviews say it should. It is fast ill give it that but it just sounds boxy, woofy, and not defined I guess. I feel like my audiobahns from a few years ago had better sq then this. Is this aa box issue? What are your guys opinnions?


Spend some time and break it in. Also, check the box measurements - it is quite finicky. I suggest around 1.35 cu ft. sealed. Once you have addressed those 2 issues, if it still sounds the same, then try changing out the amp. However, I would be very surprised if it doesn't good in the proper sized enclosure and after a decent break-in period. Subs particularly sound like ass until broken in.


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

In my exp the Morel sub is one of those sub's that you don't know is playing until you turn it off if that makes sense to you


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Alright I got the measurements. Length going across the front is 14inches, depth is 13.5, and hight is 13.5. 3/4 mdf im assuming so thats a total of 1.042 volume. Would building a box with in between 1.2 and 1.4 volume make a difference and what would that difference be? Is this a bad alpine amp? I thought it was supposed to be a decent amp.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

jnads87 said:


> The issue def is not the midbass.
> 
> The subs lpf is set at 63hz with 18db slope and the mids hpf is set at 63hz with a 12db slope. If that helps.


You're running stock speakers at 63/18db? 

For those dimensions I'm also coming up with roughly 1.04 cuft. Driver displacement is .09cuft, which puts you at 1.03cuft net for you box.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Check your math again ousooner, its .95 cf.

Try adding a pound of "stuffing" into the box and see if that helps. If it does, chances are the box is to small. Idk what is recommended by morel so????


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Speaker Enclosure Volume Calculator

RE AUDIO - Box Calculator


Go at it


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## cyberdraven (Oct 28, 2009)

Can you test the following before changing anything on your system?

Right Box Size
Listen to something bass heavy then OPEN the drivers window. If the bass gets loud, your box is SMALL. If the bass is the same, you have no problem on your sub.

Power
Underpower - If you start to hear high frequency distortion when you play loud, its the amp complaining. Overpower - if you start to hear suspension noises, its the sub complaining.

Break-in
Break-in anywhere from 30 to 300 hours depending on the sub itself (stiffness of suspension) and the box (sealed or ported, a sub in a ported box playing songs with tones below the box tuning frequency will have more excursion and may break-in sooner than the same sub in a sealed box). Depending on the sub, you usually expect deeper, more effortless bass after break-in. 


Once you see no issues on the above, I would say its the "hand-shaking" of your midbass and the sub. Play with the crossover and levels between the mids and sub.


This is a repost but explains a lot:


TIGHT BASS is sometimes misunderstood...

If your bass is crossed over at a low crossover point the bass from the woofer cannot by itself be TIGHT...

The PERCEPTION OF TIGHTNESS is often governed by how well the other speakers in the car match the levels of the woofers ....

Think about it for a second...
When a drumstick strikes a drum (or even a foot peddle) the initial sound you hear has the tightness of the drum skin or drum surface, which is ACTUALLY HIGHS not lows! The bass that comes with it might be VERY LOW, but what defines the drums tightness is ACTUALLY HIGH FREQUENCY!

Think about this also, or better yet try it yourself, Turn all the amps off except your bass amp and the woofers (only) WILL SOUND MUDDY!

This MUDDY-NESS is what woofers DO!
And crossed over like we do in cars MUDDY-NESS IS ALL THAT THE WOOFERS CAN DO!

ITS NORMAL!

SO, to make these woofers sound tight, the secret is to make your MIDS and HIGHS have lots of output just like your woofers do. Then the system makes the woofers SOUND TIGHT!....

Seriously take the TIGHTEST BASS SYSTEM you know and turn off all the amps but the bass amps and I think you will agree with me the bass drivers alone SOUND MUDDY and NOT
TIGHT at all.....



Hope it helps.

Paeng


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## asota (Feb 7, 2011)

cyberdraven said:


> Can you test the following before changing anything on your system?
> 
> Right Box Size
> Listen to something bass heavy then OPEN the drivers window. If the bass gets loud, your box is SMALL. If the bass is the same, you have no problem on your sub.
> ...


Agree 100% using this also applies to mid-bass. So many clueless people giving bad advice on this forum it is really refreshing to see someone who really does have a clue and is able to explain in a way even someone new to car audio can understand.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

if driver is not broken in yet then it wont play at its full potencial, it will lack low end...this is your issue number one
after a couple of weeks it should play as it supose to, if not start thinking about new enclosure for it and start with tuning process...phase, xo, slopes, eq,.....also diffeerent box orientation and position will yeld different results.....


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

Ive recently installed the same sub, and it is a different sound that may take some getting used to. For some, the word transparent also infers subtle and smooth. That has been my impression of this sub. It certainly isnt as noticeable as to the hit, etc... But it also doesnt add any additional "color" to the music. To me, my biggest suprise is that my midbass "seems" to have tightened up with this sub. Goes against conventional wisdom, but there it is (in my limited terms). I think many of us have become accustomed to harder, punchier sub bass.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

jnads87 said:


> Alright I got the measurements. Length going across the front is 14inches, depth is 13.5, and hight is 13.5. 3/4 mdf im assuming so thats a total of 1.042 volume. Would building a box with in between 1.2 and 1.4 volume make a difference and what would that difference be? Is this a bad alpine amp? I thought it was supposed to be a decent amp.


2 suggestions:

build a bigger box. that box is too small according the Morel's specs. I believe they are requiring 1.75 cu ft. 2 cu ft. for optimum performance
http://www.morelhifi.com/old/support/pdf/mobile/Ultimo%20Manual.pdf



my experience with that sub is it requires a decent amount of power to shine.


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## TommyDS (May 27, 2012)

From my experience with Ultimo and Ultimo SC subs, although they are SQ subs, we achieved best results in vented enclosures, not sealed. So try vented enclosure simulated on linear frequency response. Of course this woofer needs a lot of power from quality amp (in majority of cases, used Arc Audio amps). 

For a 12inch sub, we were using volume of app 50liters, and round port with diameter 10cm and lenght 26-28cm... 

With a good amp, you should achieve a very good bass volume on lowest frequencies, but it will be up to a testing which frequency will be the best for transition from sub bass to mid bass (it is always hard to find this point, can be 50Hz as well as 100-120Hz) ...


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## Fast Hot Rod (Apr 19, 2007)

smgreen20 said:


> Check your math again ousooner, its .95 cf.


You might want to check yours. He's right on the money.

The OP said his box was 14x13.5x13.5 and made with 3/4 MDF. That means that the internal dimensions are 12.5x12x12. That's exactly 1,800 cubic inches, or 1.041666666 cubic feet. 

Mark


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

Fast Hot Rod said:


> You might want to check yours. He's right on the money.
> 
> The OP said his box was 14x13.5x13.5 and made with 3/4 MDF. That means that the internal dimensions are 12.5x12x12. That's exactly 1,800 cubic inches, or 1.041666666 cubic feet.
> 
> Mark


1.04 - 0.09 (displacement as stated in the manual) = 0.95 ... unless my math is way off...


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Lol everyone's confused. I mistyped a few things yesterday on here. Beer + Heat + Pool = STAY OFF FORUMS. My 25th B-day yesterday! 

We're all right here though...besides my mistype. I mean to type 0.95cuft net, not 1.04 net. I put up some links for anyone to use that might come across this thread also. But yeah, 1.04cuft is his box BEFORE the sub displacement. 0.95cuft roughly after the sub is in. 

You're not going to get much more from poly-fill. Try a new box for sure


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

I was suprised that the manual says the optimum for the SC-12 is around 1 ft.  In my research and reading on here, the "general" consensus seems to favor 1.25-1.35. Mine is right there at 1.3ish after displacement.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Sub is peaky in that small box which can sound boomy, suggest: 
- 50Hz @ 12dB/oct lowpass on the subwoofer 

Stock speakers are working too hard @ 63dB 12dB, try :
- 125Hz @ 12dB/oct slope 

Last thing to do is to listen to your system with a dynamic song (Michael Jackson for eg.) and reverse the polarity of your subwoofer (phase swap in the P80RS if you can) and listen to that same song. Keep the setting that sounds best... 

Kelvin


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> Sub is peaky in that small box which can sound boomy, suggest:
> - 50Hz @ 12dB/oct lowpass on the subwoofer
> 
> Stock speakers are working too hard @ 63dB 12dB, try :
> ...


Wouldn't I be missing freq between 50 and 125 if I did that?


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

BTW It sounds better and better everyday. It def. needed some break in and I have to say I'm starting to love it. I still def need to build a bigger box though. If I mainly listen to rock and metal and I need it to stay quick and not miss any kick drum hits, What would be the best size box? 1.25-1.35 or even higher?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

jnads87 said:


> Wouldn't I be missing freq between 50 and 125 if I did that?


Nope, due to the crossover slopes. The shallower the slope 6dB-12dB (VS 18dB-24dB), the more high frequencies you're letting the driver play. 

You can even go as low as 30Hz or 40Hz @ 6dB/oct slope on the subwoofer's lowpass. 

Kelvin


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

BREAK IN BREAK IN BREAK IN.

Speakers need to break in before critically listening to them. Subs especially do to their suspension stiffness. Bass is usually reduced output and even the sound can very from one day to the next on the same song. 

You said it is getting better each day so you are now learning this first hand. Remember this with EVERY new speaker that you install.

Break it in first then judge it's sound. Oh and when you think it MUST be broken in...give it another 10hrs playing time before getting critical.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

I have the same sub in my 2000 Saab viggen (hatch) which was originally powered by a older alpine pix 1000.1 amp. With research on this site I told the shop that did the fiberglass work I need a box 1.25-1.5 cu ft, so what did they do? They made a box which gives me the .97 cu ft morel states is ideal. Most of the time I thought the sub sounded good but with some music it was boomy sounding. 

I switched from a older PDF 1000.1 amp to a pg elite.2 and there was a vert noticeable change in sq, but my pdxwas the 1st gen alpine class d amp. Theissueiam having is my elite.2 doesn't have enough power for me, and I don't crank it! Going to mess with the gains and see what that does, local shop states I need a 2 ohm sub vs 4 ohm that I amusing........ 

I did try the fill, added some material I'm there and this also made a subtle change butsq did improve. Possibly throw some stuffing in there and see what that does. For me.... I think it's mostly box made to small


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## ChiTownSQ (Apr 7, 2008)

If you don't like it ill buy it from you!


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Just to help out other people interested in this sub, I ran mine in 1.3 cu.ft. sealed, and it was superb. I bet 1.5 cu.ft. would have been better, as it was only getting 500 watts off the rear channels of a Zapco Reference 1000.4 bridged together. But that was definitely a sweet spot for it.

Thanks,
Daniel


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Loving this sub now. Got a custom 1.3 box built by south east customz
Great guy and great box. It def. needed the bigger box and some break in time. Also the right mindset. Its been a while since I had a sub in my car so the last thing I remember is some hard hitting bass. Not smooth fuller sound which is what this sub is all about. Im now curious to see how this differs from the normal non sc version.


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## powpow2pavement (Feb 22, 2012)

I just installed Morel Ultimo 12SC 4ohm in approximately 1.4 cu ft sealed box (no polyfill). MS-8 being used with JL HD900/5 amp.

As noted by the OP, the speaker doesn't sound very good out of the box. At lower volumes it sounds like butter. If I turn up my sub gain knob and increase HU volume on a bass-heavy song (electronic music), the sub has a "growling" type of noise. Not sure how else to describe, but it's not smooth and has a "growl" or "scratch" sound to it.

Yes, I'm aware of the break-in concept. My problem is that I don't have enough experience to differentiate between speaker break-in, bad tuning, or bad speaker. As I play with my crossover settings, I'd like to have a break-in timeframe to consider in my efforts to eliminate tuning or speaker failure as potential problems.

I'm wondering if the OP or any others with this speaker would chime in.... ballpark figure, how many hours would you estimate for break-in period? Any comments pertaining to subwoofer break-in generally will be much appreciated!


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## doug97gxe (Feb 7, 2011)

Figured i would give my experience since i read this thread right after i bought my SC10 and felt the same way.

Specs(Before):

Ford F-150
Eclipse AV726e
Rainbow Profi Crossovers
Rainbow Hammer 10" Subs
Rainbow IPaul 2.400 (Comps)
Rainbow IPaul DM2000
Fox Acoustics Stealth Sub Box:
2-10" SEALED DOWN FIRE
INTERNAL AIR VOLUME: .65 per side
DIVIDED: YES
SUB SIZE: 10"
HOLE SIZE: 9.125"
MOUNTING DEPTH: 6" WITH A 6 INCH DIAMETER MAGNET
CONNECTORS: 2 SCREW MOUNTED SPRING TERMINALS
FLOOR CLEARANCE: 1.5"

Had my system installed by 6spdcoupe here on the forum.. everything sounded perfect.. tuned great, but i read about the SC10 and i had to have them..

Specs(After):

Ford F-150
Eclipse AV726e
Rainbow Profi Crossovers
Morel SC10 Subs
Rainbow IPaul 2.400 (Comps)
Rainbow IPaul DM2000

Swapped my Subs fired them up and i was immediately disappointed.. I read this thread over and over.. i was patient about break in as suggested, but then i started to fiddle with the EQ and settings.

What i found was these Morels are very power hungry.. i had to fade my crossovers all the way to the rear .. R3 on my Eclipse Deck.. then i raised the bass on the Eclipse EQ .. then i noticed the Morels sounded so much better. I noticed the louder i went.. the better they sounded.. the more my lights started to dim (alternator problem)..

So with the addition of them finally being broken in.. and needing more power, even with Rap music as previously mentioned they sound excellent. I also noticed as someone mentioned about the windows being down the system sounding better that my box needs to be bigger than it currently is, unfortunately with the F-150 and a stealth box under the seat i am at the mercy of box volume. I might try some polyfill later on.

Usually i just read and don't post, but i had to post to let you guys who are experiencing the same issues to play around with your system and you might realize its not the sub. Amazing the whole muddy sound and weak bass went away after i made these changes. I believe the Rainbow Hammers had initially sounded better because they didn't require as much power


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## powpow2pavement (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks for chiming in with your own experience. I've also found that playing with the EQ is necessary. I had bass levels much lower on my previous subs, but the Morel sounds better with the levels tapped up. I like it more and more as the weeks go by.


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## mojozoom (Feb 11, 2012)

Is it possible that the previous sub/amb combo had a different group delay than the new one,so the new setup isn't phase matched to the mids as closely?


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

you'll be much happier with 1.4- 1.5 cu


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## doug97gxe (Feb 7, 2011)

powpow2pavement said:


> Thanks for chiming in with your own experience. I've also found that playing with the EQ is necessary. I had bass levels much lower on my previous subs, but the Morel sounds better with the levels tapped up. I like it more and more as the weeks go by.


it def loves power


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## doug97gxe (Feb 7, 2011)

mojozoom said:


> Is it possible that the previous sub/amb combo had a different group delay than the new one,so the new setup isn't phase matched to the mids as closely?


hmmm i never thought of this..


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## doug97gxe (Feb 7, 2011)

xxx_busa said:


> you'll be much happier with 1.4- 1.5 cu


wish i could have gone bigger with my F150.. i was limited by the back seat


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

TommyDS said:


> From my experience with Ultimo and Ultimo SC subs, although they are SQ subs, we achieved best results in vented enclosures, not sealed. So try vented enclosure simulated on linear frequency response. Of course this woofer needs a lot of power from quality amp (in majority of cases, used Arc Audio amps).
> 
> For a 12inch sub, we were using volume of app 50liters, and round port with diameter 10cm and lenght 26-28cm...
> 
> With a good amp, you should achieve a very good bass volume on lowest frequencies, but it will be up to a testing which frequency will be the best for transition from sub bass to mid bass (it is always hard to find this point, can be 50Hz as well as 100-120Hz) ...


I agree with this guy, ditch sealed box use calculator to build proper vented. it will sounds much better.


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## doug97gxe (Feb 7, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> I agree with this guy, ditch sealed box use calculator to build proper vented. it will sounds much better.


i always thought sealed sound better.. might have to think about this


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

doug97gxe said:


> i always thought sealed sound better.. might have to think about this


Me too...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

doug97gxe said:


> i always thought sealed sound better.. might have to think about this


Common misconception. I`d rather go ported or IB before sealed.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Sealed are easier to build, more forgiving if you are not accurate to spec. Easier to integrate with small midbass. Less group delay though in the bass frequencies, it usually does not matter.

Ported you get better low end, less imd, less distortion. 

I used to be a sealed enclosure person. Unless it's the only way, never again.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I agree with the last few posts. Sealed as a last resort. Ported first but I chose IB because I could do a pair of monster 15s and have most of my trunk available and a near flat response without EQ. With a single 12, I would go ported unless you just want to fill in the bottom end in which case IB might be ok. 

I do have to mention that the Ultimo has been done IB with very good results but output will be no better than sealed. Distortion might be slightly lower than sealed since less power will be required but overall it will be about the same.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

The best, deepest, cleanest, richest, nicest bass I ever heard was from a sealed enclosure. Granted it was a home speaker with servo control but still.....


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> The best, deepest, cleanest, richest, nicest bass I ever heard was from a sealed enclosure. Granted it was a home speaker with servo control but still.....


It would have been better, deeper, cleaner, richer, and nicer bass if it were ported. 

I've been wanting to throw my cheap home sub in the car just for fun. I don't know the tuning frequency but it looks to be <20hz. I've always wanted to know what an ultra low tuned (for a car) sub would be like. Probably not good.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

BuickGN said:


> It would have been better, deeper, cleaner, richer, and nicer bass if it were ported.


Doubt it.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

8x 18" LMS 5400 Ultras Sealed to 27 Cube 15hz Ported Build - AVS Forum

Don't.


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## doug97gxe (Feb 7, 2011)

hmm so 1.5 cu .. ported.. gonna research some now


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