# Cheap vs expensive deadeners



## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

So pretty soon I'll have the money together to be able to have my doors done but just trying to work out what I'm paying for with the price gap between some products, specifically the butyl based with ally skin roll on stuff, stinger and dynamat cost an arm and a leg however I've found some stuff on eBay, some off brand Chinese stuff "happy tiger" selling at a significantly lower price (by australian standards anyway). 

So apart from the obvious slight differences in thickness would there be much of a downside to using the cheaper stuff when compared to expensive name brands? It's the difference between just having the doors done with "quality" stuff or treating the doors and boot with some of the cheaper stuff.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Asphalt based is normally cheap stuff. It will melt and run all over your car and stink. 

If it's not asphalt based its just low grade foil or thin. 

Do it right the first time.

You can probably do better than dynamat. It's not all that good.


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

Thanks man, the only products I've really been looking at are the butyl based ones with foil, my local options are dynamat, stinger roadkill, jaycar response stuff and vibe branded anti vibe deadener


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

see if you can send TooStubborn a sample of the stuff you're looking to buy. A bit tough from other sellers, but you can ask for sample purchase. Then Toostubborn can test it. Or at the least you can do a basic test. just use a fixed device to cause some force and measure the sound differences between the 2 with a sound meter and your done. 

I think the main thing is that you put some on to make a good amount of difference vs none on. So maybe the cheaper import stuff will do just as good. 

Bottom line is that it doesn't take ingenuity or high expense to make things less
resonant. 

As far as the asphalt goes, not all are blended to run and stink. In fact some mastic will not run or stink even at high temps. Products using asphalt have rated the highest, but not by much(see toostubborn's testing feedback in 2 posts). Once they are exposed to air and they do stink off for a number of days, then it is harder and no odor.

It just isn't rocket science. The rocket science part is in the marketing. * Yes, there is science behind it for using the most efficient of material to do the better job, as pointed out.

So most likely any deadening will usually be better than none. But some deadeners are better than others (*this is where expect the science to come in). Which might matter sometimes, and not so much other times.

I don't know the number of models he has tested, but so far the KNuKolosus was rating best bang for buck.


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

Thanks, I'll have a look at the knukolosus stuff and factor it into my options if it's a reasonable cost shipped here


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

to compare in US west coast its 35sqfeet for $140 includes shipping


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

Looks like I'd have to import that product, looking at $100ish Aus just for 14sqfeet, so far the happy tiger stuff can be had at $110ish for 45sqfeet, may have to consider that as the excess could go towards double layering if necessary I guess


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Deadening materials do actually have a bit of science to it, although many companies completely ignore it and just take a wild swing with their material choice. 

The thing is, there are thousands of butyl rubber formulas. The vast majority of which are not optimized for damping vibration. It takes a chemical engineer to be able to tell which products do which without objectively testing multiple samples, which many companies don't do.

The thing to keep in mind with vibration damping, is get the product right the first time, because if you don't do it right, you can't fix it by just adding the right product. You have to remove the junk product to fix it. Ie, if the product you choose sucks, putting the best product in the world on top of it won't fix it. It has to be attached directly to the metal. That also means stay away from the idea of multiple layers.


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

Ahh ok  I'll try do some more research on the available stuff before pulling the trigger, up til now I was under the impression it was sinply adding weight to a panel to reduce resonance and vibration


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

http://youtu.be/RfOsIvDNDbA
This is kind of the only comparative test I can find between cheap and dynamat, but then again it's the happy tiger company who made and uploaded the video so it could be biased or a phony dynamat product it's been compared to


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## Instaburn (Aug 22, 2013)

Alex92 said:


> http://youtu.be/RfOsIvDNDbA
> This is kind of the only comparative test I can find between cheap and dynamat, but then again it's the happy tiger company who made and uploaded the video so it could be biased or a phony dynamat product it's been compared to
> 
> 
> Sent from my bird using Tapatalk


That is kinda cool...

PingJing... who would have guessed...?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

that sound insulation test is about as useless as possible..


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Alex, check out the cld testing thread in the reviews forum, that's my thread. I've been objectively testing deadeners with a calibrated microphone and sine sweeps. They are right kolossus has been the nest bang for buck product. Its not super cheap, but you really only need 25% coverage. 

Keep in mind that the cheap products work by adding weight, which is extremely inefficient. The good products are constrained layer dampers, which is far more effective.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

That PingJing stuff did good in that test. So it blocks sound in higher frequencies very well. 

For resonance, I would think it would do well too, but that is something to test for. 
Maybe if you wanted to do a bsic comparison, apply on a sheet of metal, and measure multiple points away and around the strike point to compare them. From what I read, surely TooStubborn has that all together in a much more controlled and measurable process.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Let me know if you want some Pingjing. Looks like Im ordering it to try it out.

Never mind...looks like the marketing of it went strong and they are at 40sqft at $120. Price is less, but not as major as I thought


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

I figured the video was possibly a marketing stunt, doesn't seem like there's as much of a vast range to choose from down here as there is in America


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Stinger Roadkill is the best value (from Amazon.com).


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Not sure how well Stinger Roadkill did, but it's at least $40 less than Kolossus (36sf vs 35)

Did Toostub test StRKill? With all the acronyms, I must have missed it/?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Not sure how well Stinger Roadkill did, but it's at least $40 less than Kolossus (36sf vs 35)
> 
> Did Toostub test StRKill? With all the acronyms, I must have missed it/?


yeah, i dont think it did to great. but no awful from what i remember


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

4 years ago i tried to cheat with asphalt based stuff, then i moved to phoenix. suffice it to say, it did melt, it did drip and it was/is a ***** to get off.

please stay far away from asphalt-based stuff, as i learned the hard way trying to save money. but, for those who made the mistake, goof-off (the orange spray bottle) works great at clean up.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Not sure how well Stinger Roadkill did, but it's at least $40 less than Kolossus (36sf vs 35)
> 
> Did Toostub test StRKill? With all the acronyms, I must have missed it/?


Roadkill was at the bottom of what I would call acceptable. Kolossus reduced the peak resonance by 6 decibels more than roadkill did, 14db reduction vs slightly under 8db reduction for roadkill.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

whatever happened to just using spray-on/brush-on undercoating, it has worked great for years but are we suddenly technologically advanced with space age materials beyond the point of common sense when it comes to treating road noise ?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

And the SecondSkins?

If the product can make a significant difference measured, imagine the use of it across a large area....this difference will translate enough to put buy a better performing product.
The price of these things are already stupid. But, if you have to pick one, may as well have it perform.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SDS, KNU KOL, Dynamat Xtreme, Sskin damp pro, then a huge gap in poor performance to stinger rkill, with ramat being better or just a bit worse, then at the bottom, fat mat, peel and seal and some others.

There might be others that were tested later that may be in the category of secskin d pro, or better than it with Dynamat.

And others just above stinger Rkill that were tested months later,


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

So SDS, Knu Kolossus and Dynamat Xtreme then SSkin.

any link to the tests for these so I can read the differences?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

My shop uses Hushmat most often. It's far more flexible than anything else I've used and seems thinner and more flexible, but somehow it eliminates resonance really well and, given I've done the same vehicle with different CLD, subjectively better than Stinger Roadkill. I couldn't find Hushmat in the showdown of CLD tiles, but I don't have time to look right and I could't find just a ranking table or something similar. Hushmat, though, is very, very expensive. It's flexibility/thinness is also advantageous for tight situations and totally sealing in a baffle with ease. It's hard and ugly to do this with thicker, less flexible product. 

I have used Stinger Roadkill in many builds of my own and in others' builds and we all have been more than happy with it. I'm not sponsored by them and I'm not personally wedded to them in any way (other than I already have a lot of it). We don't use it at my shop very often, if at all anymore. Again, we use Hushmat. I think Stinger Roadkill, despite being on the "low end of acceptable" is just that: acceptable. It does fine. It is a value product. Perhaps not at a minute cost per dB reduced value but a total cost with a desirable outcome value. It accomplishes, for a good price, what I'd say most people (really, their vehicles) need to prevent what most people want to prevent: audible vibration, resonance, and to improve midbass. Other CLD will do it better, sure... and that's great.

Lately, though, Stinger Roadkill bulk pack is about $100 on Amazon. Knu's equal-sized pack is about $139 plus some shipping. I did not realize, when I made my value comment earlier, that Stinger got more expensive. My value statement applies mostly when it is priced, for a 35/36 sq ft pack, at about $75 shipped, which is what I paid for a **** ton of it a year ago. I have about 5 bulk packs of it left and will be using it until it is gone, mostly on side-builds I do for people who have never solicited my shop. And they all will be happy with the results... I assure you. Not just because the product is fine but perhaps even more so because it'll be placed and applied in the right way.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> So SDS, Knu Kolossus and Dynamat Xtreme then SSkin.
> 
> any link to the tests for these so I can read the differences?


Here are a few just on one page, and KNU in the bottom link, if you want to find more, scroll through that thread to find more. I tend to pay attention to weight and performance, while KNU is better and costs a bit less than Dynamat, D Xtreme is half the weight, stinger is near twice the weight of Dynamat and way worse looking at the chart. SDS just a hair better than KNU KOL while being lighter. 


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ns/146403-sound-deadening-cld-testing-11.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1945902-post276.html


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

brett said:


> 4 years ago i tried to cheat with asphalt based stuff, then i moved to phoenix. suffice it to say, it did melt, it did drip and it was/is a ***** to get off.
> 
> please stay far away from asphalt-based stuff, as i learned the hard way trying to save money. but, for those who made the mistake, goof-off (the orange spray bottle) works great at clean up.


Guy at work had this happen. He asked me how to get it off, all I could do was laugh.


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

I started reading through the thread, saw some of the testing, after all the vouching for knu I'd try and get it but seem to be having trouble finding an Aus distributor, I'll finish reading over the thread when I have time and try weigh up the best option available I can get for the price, shame there's no mention of vibes "anti vibe" in there, the guy I'm taking my car to swears it's great but costs something like $20-30 a sheet, so far all I've really gathered is that stinger and dynamat aren't as up to par as some other deadeners and I think I saw the sds tile went well and sticks a bit too well


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Good Luck finding knu in Australia, I am sure you will find Dynamat there nothing wrong with it, it will be way cheaper.

Or find out with the Second Skin owner here, they may ship it to you and just shipping along will cut near half the weight and cost getting knu.

Otherwise search for STP silver there, you want to find something local or made on that side of the sphere to save some cash.

Otherwise CLD will stand for Cash loaded Doors.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

HappyTiger all the way Braaaaaaaa!


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

Yeah I'm up to a point where it's stated that dynamat, second skin, alpha damp and a few others are near equal, stp gold is meant to be a cut above? I think I can find some in Aus, though the gold only comes in bulk packs that blow out my budget, shame though since I'd like to get the knu stuff but in total would cost $150 Aus to have it imported to me for 14ft, so looks like stp gold if I can find it at a good price or dynamat unless I take the plunge for happy tiger, then I should at least have enough to make some difference around the boot and rear of the car, my parcel shelf hates the bass


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Alex92 said:


> Yeah I'm up to a point where it's stated that dynamat, second skin, alpha damp and a few others are near equal, stp gold is meant to be a cut above? I think I can find some in Aus, though the gold only comes in bulk packs that blow out my budget, shame though since I'd like to get the knu stuff but in total would cost $150 Aus to have it imported to me for 14ft, so looks like stp gold if I can find it at a good price or dynamat unless I take the plunge for happy tiger, then I should at least have enough to make some difference around the boot and rear of the car, my parcel shelf hates the bass


Hey, PM me your zip code or address, let me see what I can do with the dynamat Xtreme for you and you decide, I can get it at a discount and I have an idea that can cut shipping costs. 

Do you know exactly how much you need? 12 square foot enough or would you need more?


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

I'm in Australia, postcode is 4868, as far as dynamat it looks like I could get the 19ft or so trunk pack around $100ish from an Aus distributor, though my ideal goal would be to have the doors sealed and deadened and have enough spare to start treating or get the trunk done as well, I honestly have no idea how much it would require however more is better as if there is still leftover from the trunk I can look into doing the firewall area and floors in the front.

I know it's a bit vague but pretty much trying to achieve as much as I can with a reasonable product for the price


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

The trunk kits are 20 s/f. Good deal !

You can do 30-40% coverage , that trunk kit with 20 s/f is more than enough.

3.5 foot per door including the door panels that's 7 for the doors 

10 foot for the trunk and 3 feet extra 

Doors first, trunk last.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

sirbOOm said:


> My shop uses Hushmat most often. It's far more flexible than anything else I've used and seems thinner and more flexible, but somehow it eliminates resonance really well and, given I've done the same vehicle with different CLD, subjectively better than Stinger Roadkill. I couldn't find Hushmat in the showdown of CLD tiles, but I don't have time to look right and I could't find just a ranking table or something similar. Hushmat, though, is very, very expensive. It's flexibility/thinness is also advantageous for tight situations and totally sealing in a baffle with ease. It's hard and ugly to do this with thicker, less flexible product.
> 
> I have used Stinger Roadkill in many builds of my own and in others' builds and we all have been more than happy with it. I'm not sponsored by them and I'm not personally wedded to them in any way (other than I already have a lot of it). We don't use it at my shop very often, if at all anymore. Again, we use Hushmat. I think Stinger Roadkill, despite being on the "low end of acceptable" is just that: acceptable. It does fine. It is a value product. Perhaps not at a minute cost per dB reduced value but a total cost with a desirable outcome value. It accomplishes, for a good price, what I'd say most people (really, their vehicles) need to prevent what most people want to prevent: audible vibration, resonance, and to improve midbass. Other CLD will do it better, sure... and that's great.
> 
> Lately, though, Stinger Roadkill bulk pack is about $100 on Amazon. Knu's equal-sized pack is about $139 plus some shipping. I did not realize, when I made my value comment earlier, that Stinger got more expensive. My value statement applies mostly when it is priced, for a 35/36 sq ft pack, at about $75 shipped, which is what I paid for a **** ton of it a year ago. I have about 5 bulk packs of it left and will be using it until it is gone, mostly on side-builds I do for people who have never solicited my shop. And they all will be happy with the results... I assure you. Not just because the product is fine but perhaps even more so because it'll be placed and applied in the right way.


I didn't mean anything directed at you, sorry if it came across that way.

The one thing that I've learned is that A: most people will be fine with anything from stinger on up, when applied in the right amounts, performance wise, and B: often time the placebo effect is greater than the performance difference.

Another depressing fact. My testing will be absolutely obsolete in 5 years. There has been an explosion of new products in just the two years I've been trying to get this done. There are at least 15 new companies that didn't exist when I started this now, some have folded, and some have changed products. This is why I'm trying to finish up testing with what I have on hand, because it's just not possible for me to keep up.


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

It's a shame you won't be able to keep going although everything you've done so far I can see is tremendous for somebody to do off their own back and then to publicly release the info free of charge. Even if the info will become obsolete it does at least give a good indication which companies do manufacture slightly superior products, especially since down here dynamat and stinger are considered rather equal, in fact some shops prefer to stock stinger over dynamat, interesting to find out you've identified which you've found to be better through your tests.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm really happy with Focal BAM. I have it in my doors, on the metal frame for the rear seat (as it's a sedan), the boot & boot lid. Awesome stuff...definitely keeps a lot of sound and bass inside the car


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

Ahhwell update on my end, ended up just getting the stuff the shop doing the work supplies put in, he did me a good deal to run some cables through a bastard door wore harness and seal the inner door skin with deadener, all up came to $100 out of my pocket including the 2 sheets of anti vibe, not sure how it goes but apparently the specs claim the foil layer is a little thicker than dynamat


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Just keep in mind, foil layer isn't really that important. The best performing product has a 8mil foil layer, the second best which is just a hair behind, has a 4mil thick foil layer with 3mil of plastic on top of that. The product with a 10mil thick layer was beaten out by dynamat xtreme.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

The Kolossus you rated highly has 10mil, and I just put a sheeyat load of it in my doors...



> Well, I just did my doors with Kolossus. I put sheets covering the entire outer skin/from inside of course, and then I covered all I could on the skin that faces the inside/door panels, without getting into the window mechanism and such. But each door ate about 2.5 to 3 sheets!
> 
> The doors now feel super nice. Heavier, more solid, and super nice feel when you shut them. The KOlossus was pretty easy to work with. Minimal finger cuts, very sticky stuff. My order of 35sqft was about 39 pounds. More than half went to the doors.
> *
> I don't even know if what I did is good for the SQ, but the doors are dead!*


*I do have a slight concern in the back of my head that the working temp rating of 10-130F, and Max temp range of -50 to 350F maybe borderline for So Cal weather?*


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## Alex92 (Mar 27, 2015)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Just keep in mind, foil layer isn't really that important. The best performing product has a 8mil foil layer, the second best which is just a hair behind, has a 4mil thick foil layer with 3mil of plastic on top of that. The product with a 10mil thick layer was beaten out by dynamat xtreme.



Yeah I know, when reading through your thread I noticed a lot of similar specced products with small differences, probably due to the butyl layer you mention is most important where the particular make up had a lot to do with it. I I guess for me it was just easier to let the shop use his own stuff as he gave me a good deal on the job he did as well as deadening the doors was more to finally seal them and treat them to try improve the speaker sound rather than remove road noise. Speaking of road noise though, I can't comment on if doing the doors made much difference at all due to the so much still coming through the floor, should finish wiring in the speakers today though so I'm keen to hear them


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Its actually advertised at 10mil, but when you measure it with the calipers, its not. Its 4mil of aluminum, and 2.5-3mil of plastic coating. Not that it really matters, since its performance speaks for itself.




Phil Indeblanc said:


> The Kolossus you rated highly has 10mil, and I just put a sheeyat load of it in my doors...
> 
> 
> 
> *I do have a slight concern in the back of my head that the working temp rating of 10-130F, and Max temp range of -50 to 350F maybe borderline for So Cal weather?*


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## jbb2388 (Nov 20, 2015)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Its actually advertised at 10mil, but when you measure it with the calipers, its not. Its 4mil of aluminum, and 2.5-3mil of plastic coating. Not that it really matters, since its performance speaks for itself.


Toostubborn or anyone, has the Ballistic SSDK been tested yet? Just curious on how it performed.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

375 degree sound deadener oven test, GT Mat vs The World 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzUd665qG8M


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Not to my knowledge, don't have any to test.


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