# Help with muffled sound from speakers



## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Good Afternoon,

I’m not sure if anyone has had the same problem I’m having but hopefully someone can help me if they have. 

I have a 2005 Silverado Crew cab with component speakers up front. The woofer and tweeter are close to each other on the bottom of the door (stock location). I have JL ZR 6.5 components (ran passive) being powered by an Arc Audio KS 300.4. The doors do have some dynamat and the head unit I have is a kenwood excelon DDX6904s. 

The issue I’m having is that the speakers sound muddy and the highs sound very faint. When it comes to the music, nothing has definition or distinction. For example the rolls on the drums of any song sound muffled like if you’re listening to them in the room next door through the wall. 

They did sound worse than what they do now, but I did change the battery and alternator in my truck, which helped but the JL ZRs do not sound how they’re supposed to, which is very bright and detailed. I do own the Focal ES 165 KX2 and Rainbow Germaniums that I have switched out and they all seem to have the same problem. The ZRs are still very new because I bought them and took them out since they were too bright for my liking, but I put them back in to see if they sounded like they used to, which they don’t, and now I believe the problem is somewhere else and not the speakers. 

I did have a basic Kenwood DPX300U before the excelon, and the speakers sounded a little more full and alive but now they don’t. Could the issue be with the head unit? Or is there somewhere I’m not looking? I have checked the polarity, I even bought new power cables, ground cables fuses and fuse holders for the amps but it seems as if nothing has solved the issue. 

Any advice is much appreciated. Thank you gentlemen.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Possible you might have a routing issue like feeding them a band passed signal from the HU? Those Kenwoods have a lot of sound shaping functions that you can easily get lost in.. having something on without realizing you've done it. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

It almost sounds like the tweeters aren't playing. If after working through the head unit settings you still don't have the issue resolved you may need to pull the door panels and actually inspect the speakers, or at least the crossovers.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Bayboy said:


> Possible you might have a routing issue like feeding them a band passed signal from the HU? Those Kenwoods have a lot of sound shaping functions that you can easily get lost in.. having something on without realizing you've done it.
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!





Bayboy said:


> Possible you might have a routing issue like feeding them a band passed signal from the HU? Those Kenwoods have a lot of sound shaping functions that you can easily get lost in.. having something on without realizing you've done it.
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


I did forget to mention that i am running these bi-wired (I think that’s the proper term). I have each channel feeding from the amp to the tweeters and woofers through the passive crossover. I have checked the settings on the head unit and everything is off. The HPF are on of course, but makes me wonder what should they be set for the channels that are feeding into the tweeters.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

gijoe said:


> It almost sounds like the tweeters aren't playing. If after working through the head unit settings you still don't have the issue resolved you may need to pull the door panels and actually inspect the speakers, or at least the crossovers.


The tweeters are playing but not clear like they’re supposed to. I’ve taken off the door panels and checked the connections, I’ve inspected the crossovers also since I have them underneath my back seat. I’ve changed the settings on them but still haven’t had much luck. I’m tempted in just getting another head unit to see if it makes a difference but not sure if that’s the answer.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

I do appreciate the responses.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

What about the crossovers on the amp? They have a push for x1 or x10 on frequency range and a switch from Low Pass/High Pass/Full


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Notloudenuf said:


> What about the crossovers on the amp? They have a push for x1 or x10 on frequency range and a switch from Low Pass/High Pass/Full


I have checked the settings on the amp and made sure they’re on HPF and stereo and that they’re on X1 and not X10. So I just have to keep looking to see if the issue is somewhere else.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I can almost guarantee this is due to a setting on your amp/HU/Xovers. Let's simplify this...

On your head unit, you have (3) sets of preamp outputs. Front, Rear and SUB. If your KS300.4 amplifier is only being used for powering these components, then do this:

1. Defeat any crossovers or set to off/Full on amp and the same in the head unit. If you believe you already did, check again. Don't engage any crossover in the HU or amplifier.
You have passive crossovers, you don't need to engage crossovers on the HU or amp at this point. Amp crossover switches should be set to "FULL".

2. Bridge the amplifier, do not bi-wire. On your KS300.4, set the mode switch for Front to "bridged" and set the mode switch for Rear to "bridged".

3. RCA connection...Make sure the FRONT L rca from the Kenwood is connected to Front L on the amp. Make sure the FRONT R rca from the Kenwood is connected to the Front R on the amp. You do not need to connect the REAR or SUB rca outputs from the head unit to this amplifier.

4. Speaker wire connections to the amplifier...The JL crossover module for the LEFT door speakers should be connected to REAR bridged +/- output from the amplifier. The JL crossover module for the RIGHT door speakers should be connected to the FRONT bridged +/- output from the amplifier.

5. JL Crossover module settings. On both crossover modules, make sure the internal jumpers are set for "STANDARD" mode. In this mode, you will have one set of speaker wires from the amplifier connected to the crossover module. This is all you need.

Now see what you get. If it is still muffled, then check your head unit for any other engaged settings like seat position, EQ, etc. But this should get you playing full range.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

If one unplugs the RCAs feed into the amp, it is possible to use ear buds to listen to what the amp is being presented with.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

captainobvious said:


> I can almost guarantee this is due to a setting on your amp/HU/Xovers. Let's simplify this...
> 
> On your head unit, you have (3) sets of preamp outputs. Front, Rear and SUB. If your KS300.4 amplifier is only being used for powering these components, then do this:
> 
> ...


Brother thank you so much for your help. As we spoke before I tried this and the sound did not improved but then I also tried with my music source directly into the amp, and it was a night and day difference. So this Leads me to believe that it is my head unit that is causing the faulty sound. I do appreciate your help a lot.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> If one unplugs the RCAs feed into the amp, it is possible to use ear buds to listen to what the amp is being presented with.


Not sure how to go about this but I did plug my music source directly into the amp which played crystal clear music.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sal89 said:


> Not sure how to go about this but I did plug my music source directly into the amp which played crystal clear music.


You have done something in the middle, which tells you which half of the system contains the problem.
So Capt obvious was right,


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> You have done something in the middle, which tells you which half of the system contains the problem.
> So Capt obvious was right,


Yeah, so I’m thinking of trying a new head unit like pioneer. If everything works how it’s supposed to, then hopefully I leave everything alone and try to enjoy my system which has been a problem for the past three years. Doesn’t help that I don’t know much but am learning from problem to problem........


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Sweet, so you are close to finding the issue! It is in the settings of the head unit. I don't think you have a "bad" head unit, rather that it needs some setting(s) corrected. My guess would be that it is in the crossover section. It seems like you have a LPF (Low Pass Filter) set on the rcas that supply the amp. I would start by verifying that.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sal89 said:


> Yeah, so I’m thinking of trying a new head unit like pioneer. If everything works how it’s supposed to, then hopefully I leave everything alone and try to enjoy my system which has been a problem for the past three years. Doesn’t help that I don’t know much but am learning from problem to problem........


If the head unit has RCAs I would ear buds on and have a listen.
Then you'll know more...


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Here are your next steps to get the settings right on your Kenwood DDX6904S:

1. Let's start by clearing the current audio settings in the memory. From the home screen of the unit, select "SETUP". Then, select "Special". In this menu you can adjust settings for the memory. Next, select "Audio SETUP Clear". This will clear the current audio settings from the memory so it is default.

2. Now that audio settings are clear, go back to the home screen and let's select "Audio". There are several areas we want to make sure are correct here.
2(a): Select "Speaker/Xover". (There are some other settings for speaker type for each location of front,rear,subwoofer. Just set the front and rear to Large or whatever the biggest speaker size option is). Next, click on "Xover" and then click on "Front".
Set the "*High Pass*" to the *lowest *value it will allow or preferably *off *if available- then set the "Slope" to the lowest value available (usually -6db) or preferably *off*.
Set the "*Low Pass*" to the *highest *value it will allow or preferably *off* and then set the slope to the lowest value available (usually -6db) or preferably *off* if available.
_If you are using the REAR rca outputs for an amplifier for rear speakers, then repeat this 2(a) process for the "Rear" speakers as well._

3. Now let's take a listen to the system and see if the top end is back like it should be. If so, continue with the following steps.

4. From home screen, select "Audio", then "Fader/Balance". Make sure that Balance and Fader are both set to "center".

5. From home screen, select "Audio", then "Equalizer". This should show a flat EQ curve since we reset the audio settings. If it does not, then select the "Initialize" setting from this screen and it should set the bands to flat.

6. From the home screen, select "Audio", then "Zone Control", then "Zone Select", then "Single Zone".

7. From the home screen, select "Audio", then "Sound Effect". ALL of the items in this menu should be set to "OFF" for now. If they are not, make sure you set them to OFF.

8. From the home screen, select "Audio", then "Position/DTA", then select "Front L". This sets your listening seat position and allows you to do some time alignment.
8(a) Press "Adjust", then press "Delay". This allows you to adjust the distances for time alignment. Get out your tape measure and measure the distance from your drivers seat headrest to the left door speakers and input that number into the "Front L" distance (It shows Feet and milliseconds. Just go by the feet distance as close as you can get it). Now measure the distances for the right door speakers and to the subwoofer (if you have one) and input those in this screen as well. Finally, you can also make slight adjustments to the "gain" (you'll see it in the lower right of the screen) for each of these. You would do this (for example) if the output level of the left door was higher than the right, or to raise/lower the gain of the subwoofer, etc.



This process should get you where you want to be. From this point, you would use the EQ in the head unit for some adjustment to the necessary bands to get the desired sound.


Let me know how it goes!

-Steve


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

captainobvious said:


> Sweet, so you are close to finding the issue! It is in the settings of the head unit. I don't think you have a "bad" head unit, rather that it needs some setting(s) corrected. My guess would be that it is in the crossover section. It seems like you have a LPF (Low Pass Filter) set on the rcas that supply the amp. I would start by verifying that.


When I unplugged the RCAs (the first time to connect the phone directly into the amp) then reconnected them, everything started to sound a little bit more clear but it went back to the bad unclear sound. I did reset the head unit, but it still has the bad sound. So it seems like it’s ok one moment then bad the rest of the time. I have yet to use ear buds to tell what it’s providing. I will see how that goes.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Just a thought. I had a kenwood ddx393 and mine did a similar thing but it was because I had the rca plugged into the sub on the back of the Hu by accident. I didn’t look closely but they were opposite of what I expected. Also kenwood decks come stock with some features turned on that need to be turned off. Go though each setting and turn everything off including the crossovers and sound settings.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

captainobvious said:


> Here are your next steps to get the settings right on your Kenwood DDX6904S:
> 
> 1. Let's start by clearing the current audio settings in the memory. From the home screen of the unit, select "SETUP". Then, select "Special". In this menu you can adjust settings for the memory. Next, select "Audio SETUP Clear". This will clear the current audio settings from the memory so it is default.
> 
> ...





captainobvious said:


> Here are your next steps to get the settings right on your Kenwood DDX6904S:
> 
> 1. Let's start by clearing the current audio settings in the memory. From the home screen of the unit, select "SETUP". Then, select "Special". In this menu you can adjust settings for the memory. Next, select "Audio SETUP Clear". This will clear the current audio settings from the memory so it is default.
> 
> ...





Ok so update, 

I cleared the audio settings, I turned off the HPFs and set the LPF to the highest for my Sub. (I have a small 10” JL W1). 

I ensured the fader/balance was on center, EQ was flat, zone was single and all sound effects were off. I did play with the TA and set it to the driver’s seat. 

After this I am still getting an unclear sound unfortunately. If I do adjust the highs on the EQ it just makes everything bright, thin and uncomfortable. 

Also, I was able to get a split cable to connect my earbuds into the RCAs from the head unit. 

The sound (in the best way I can explain it) was that there was highs but they were dull and not as “open” sounding. 

An Example I can use: (not sure if you’ve ever played acoustic drums) but the cymbals sounded like fast crash cymbals (sound decays very fast) instead of normal cymbals (which gives you a normal sound of a cymbal that sticks around a little longer). 
Also hitting a cymbal on a drum set then grabbing the cymbal to stop the sound and vibration. 

Hopefully this helps you understand my craziness.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Whereabouts are you located Sal? If your near Pennsylvania, you can bring it over to my place and I'll find the problem and help you resolve it.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Where are you located. Probably a forum member near that could help


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Iamsecond said:


> Just a thought. I had a kenwood ddx393 and mine did a similar thing but it was because I had the rca plugged into the sub on the back of the Hu by accident. I didn’t look closely but they were opposite of what I expected. Also kenwood decks come stock with some features turned on that need to be turned off. Go though each setting and turn everything off including the crossovers and sound settings.


Yeah I wish that was the issue. I’ve pulled out the stereo and made sure the RCAs we’re connected in the right places. I also checked all settings and still haven’t had much luck.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

captainobvious said:


> Whereabouts are you located Sal? If your near Pennsylvania, you can bring it over to my place and I'll find the problem and help you resolve it.


That would be amazing, but I live in Southern California. Even though a road would be awesome, but less likely.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Sal89 said:


> That would be amazing, but I live in Southern California. Even though a road would be awesome, but less likely.


Road trip*


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Iamsecond said:


> Where are you located. Probably a forum member near that could help


Southern California. I barely started posting so I don’t really know anybody aside from whom I’ve been replying to on here.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

captainobvious said:


> Whereabouts are you located Sal? If your near Pennsylvania, you can bring it over to my place and I'll find the problem and help you resolve it.


So yesterday I took my radio out and put in my old Kenwood DDX300U and the problem is still there.
This made me wonder could the RCAs be the problem? I do have the Stinger 9000 series RCAs. 
Have you ever used these before?
When I installed them I connected the ends with the arrows into the amp which I’m assuming that’s how they’re supposed to be connected. Would it make a difference if I take them out and switch sides? 
I wanted to ask before I start pulling my panels and seats out.


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## Shadow_419 (Aug 1, 2018)

You've eliminated the headunit as a possible problem work down the chain. Since you already have each speaker on its own channel, why not run the speakers active using the crossover built into the amplifier as a test. This will let you know whether the amplifier input section or the passive crossovers are mucking things up


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Shadow_419 said:


> You've eliminated the headunit as a possible problem work down the chain. Since you already have each speaker on its own channel, why not run the speakers active using the crossover built into the amplifier as a test. This will let you know whether the amplifier input section or the passive crossovers are mucking things up


I don’t think it’s the passive crossovers. I took out the ZRs and have my Germaniums in right now, and they sound bad also. Same thing with my Focals (passive also). I’d hate to think it’s the amp because I bought a new one to replace my other one thinking that was the problem, which it wasn’t. I can try to running them separately off the amp, I just need to make sure I don’t blow my tweeters.


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## Shadow_419 (Aug 1, 2018)

All the passive crossovers can't be bad. Try reseating rcas it's easy and can't really hurt. Tried listening to the rcas with ear buds with something like this Rca to 3.5mm Holmz suggested something like this earlier. 
The only common items right now are rca wires, amp and speaker wire. You've switched both ends of the chain. Only the middle links remain to test


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Shadow_419 said:


> All the passive crossovers can't be bad. Try reseating rcas it's easy and can't really hurt. Tried listening to the rcas with ear buds with something like this Rca to 3.5mm Holmz suggested something like this earlier.
> The only common items right now are rca wires, amp and speaker wire. You've switched both ends of the chain. Only the middle links remain to test


Yeah I don’t think so either. I will take the RCAs out this weekend and see if that’s it.

I did listen to the RCAS with earbuds and I compared it to plugging them in into an iPad and they do not sound the same. The earbuds are more “open” on the iPad compared to my RCAs.
I did replace the RCAs, speaker wires and amp. So it’s either a connection problem or something that I’m missing and not looking at.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sal89 said:


> Yeah I don’t think so either. I will take the RCAs out this weekend and see if that’s it.
> 
> I did listen to the RCAS with earbuds and I compared it to plugging them in into an iPad and they do not sound the same. The earbuds are more “open” on the iPad compared to my RCAs.
> I did replace the RCAs, speaker wires and amp. So it’s either a connection problem or something that I’m missing and not looking at.


Can you write what each mod the 4 RCs sounded like?

If they were all muffled sounding, compared to an iPad, then I am not sure I would work on looking at the RCAs.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Can you write what each mod the 4 RCs sounded like?
> 
> If they were all muffled sounding, compared to an iPad, then I am not sure I would work on looking at the RCAs.


Sorry I don’t know what that means . Each mod?

I would not say as muffled, because there’s highs but not as “open and dynamic”.

So to confuse you even more, I changed the polarity of the speakers and they sound completely different. They are open and dynamic but of course you can tell that the polarity is not correct because the instruments don’t sound how they’re supposed to, so I connect them correctly and it goes back to their usual selfs.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

IMHO, RCAs cant be the foult,... I would first look at the install and into the settings. are x-overs set correct, is phasing correct, are levels correct? I would set to flat all EQ, set X-overs again and then go from there....if none of this help, try to find a knowledged guy in your area to help you out,...


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

I’d temporarily try moving the tweeters onto the sail panels or pillars and on axis and see if the sparkle comes back, 9/10 I find speakers not performing how they should are install related, or get your head down and see if they sound better on axis


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Each *one* of the RCAs.
Having 4 RCA s go bad is unlikely. I think LBaudio is correct in that the crossovers are a likely place to start with.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

LBaudio said:


> IMHO, RCAs cant be the foult,... I would first look at the install and into the settings. are x-overs set correct, is phasing correct, are levels correct? I would set to flat all EQ, set X-overs again and then go from there....if none of this help, try to find a knowledged guy in your area to help you out,...


Yeah Captainobvious gave me some instructions earlier in the thread. He had me initialize the head unit and even had me turn off all X-overs, to include the head unit and amp. All special effects are off and my EQ is usually flat. After trying everything he told me it’s still the same. I did turn the x-overs back on to engage the HPF on the mids. I’m assuming starting a thread asking if there’s anybody in my area willing to help me is my next option. I really don’t want to take it to shop. I’ve been screwed over a few times before, so that’s why I’m trying to learn to do things myself.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

dumdum said:


> I’d temporarily try moving the tweeters onto the sail panels or pillars and on axis and see if the sparkle comes back, 9/10 I find speakers not performing how they should are install related, or get your head down and see if they sound better on axis


Moving the tweeters up is not a bad idea but I don’t think that’s the problem. Although the component set is low on the doors, at one point they were crystal clear and dynamic, so if they played like that before I know they can again.
I have lowered my head to listen to them on axis and it still doesn’t sound right to me.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Each *one* of the RCAs.
> Having 4 RCA s go bad is unlikely. I think LBaudio is correct in that the crossovers are a likely place to start with.


It does seem unlikely, but at this point I am completely clueless. I have tried everything I could with the crossovers on the head unit, amp and the external passive crossovers also.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Sal89 said:


> Sorry I don’t know what that means . Each mod?
> 
> I would not say as muffled, because there’s highs but not as “open and dynamic”.
> 
> So to confuse you even more, I changed the polarity of the speakers and they sound completely different. They are open and dynamic but of course you can tell that the polarity is not correct because the instruments don’t sound how they’re supposed to, so I connect them correctly and it goes back to their usual selfs.


I'm suspicious of this, if you changed the polarity of all of the speakers, you put them right back into the exact same relative polarity. Essentially, you didn't change anything at all. This makes me curious because either the issues are in your head, or you changed something other than polarity in the process (connected wires that weren't connected properly).

We're all taking random stabs at this because "muffled" and "not as open and dynamic" aren't particularly helpful descriptions. Can you download a basic RTA app on your phone, play some pink noise, and show us the frequency response?


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

gijoe said:


> I'm suspicious of this, if you changed the polarity of all of the speakers, you put them right back into the exact same relative polarity. Essentially, you didn't change anything at all. This makes me curious because either the issues are in your head, or you changed something other than polarity in the process (connected wires that weren't connected properly).
> 
> We're all taking random stabs at this because "muffled" and "not as open and dynamic" aren't particularly helpful descriptions. Can you download a basic RTA app on your phone, play some pink noise, and show us the frequency response?


I know and that’s the difficult part, for me trying to explain the best way I can and having everyone else try to imagine and interpret what I mean without being able to listen to it. 

The issue did start off with them being muffled. I did what everyone told me to try, and the sound has changed. There is highs but everything sounds like I’m listening through a small pocket JBL speaker that I’m playing loud. (The sub is still good. I don’t have any issues with it.)
Something particular that might help you visualize my dilemma, is that kit drum Tom Toms, from any song, sound like you’re listening to them from a different room instead of where the drummer is playing.

Yes I’ll do that when I get a chance and post it on here. I know the iPhone microphone is not the greatest but will it make a difference which app I get? Also will it be best if I place the phone on axis in center of the speakers or by the head rest?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

iPhone mic should be sufficient. Place it in your listening position. Any of the free RTA apps should do. I prefer anything by Studio Six Digital. Either their own AudioTools app or AudioControl's MobileTools app.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sal89 said:


> It does seem unlikely, but at this point I am completely clueless. I have tried everything I could with the crossovers on the head unit, amp and the external passive crossovers also.


If you disconnected the RCAs coming out of the DSP and plugged an iPHone into them then the full range sound should go to the amps.


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## bilboaudio (Jan 7, 2020)

Why don't you make a recording and post a link to it as well as the rta?


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

can you just open gain a bit on your tweeter amp,....

turn subwoofer off for a while and try to get your front end to sound decent. after you acomplish that start introducing sub to the system. Try to evalusate what is the problem with sound and go from there. if you have feeling that tweeters are to low in lvl - turn them up until you get desired balance. try to change polarity to only a pair of tweeters or mids and evaluate the result. When you have your phasing between drivers correct, you will get illusion of strong center image, speakers will almost "dissapear". if you hear sound coming from a speakers without strong center you need to work on this some more. The same goes to the sub - if you hear it from position from where it is mounted your phasing between front system and sub is wrong..... big polarity issues lead to dull sound usually.

My suggestion is to start over with new preset. Start with 24 db/oct slopes on all drivers and the same polarity on all drivers. this is usually the easyest way to start and to get decent results.
It is good to have quality music recordings for such task + pink noise and measuring equipment to determine some issues infreq. output (peaks/deeps issues in crossover range,....corect balance from subbass to tweeters - 16-20 dB downfall). First set x-overs, than EQ and at last TA,...go back and make some needed corrections.... Make pause each half of hour to give a rest to your ears.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

So these are the pictures of what I was able to get with the RTA apps I’ve played with in the past. Not too sure how accurate they are.

Also this weekend I completely tore my truck apart. Since I had changed the speakers from the ZRs which I had in when I started this thread, I went back and plugged in my phone directly into the amp again and realized that it sounded horrible still, so my problem was from the amp and beyond.
Before I started to do things myself I took my truck to multiple shops and of course they did what they did and I didn’t know how legit their work was.
The last time I had work done I had them change the power and ground wires and the fuse and fuse holder. 
I used to have everything knuconceptz and now I have M.E.S.A power and ground wire “OFC” and install bay fuse and fuse holders. 
I did get pretty curious and switched the fuse and fuse holder back to my old one and that solved the problem........ I don’t know if it was a bad install or bad fuse but everything works how it’s supposed to now.

Now I definitely need to tune, but the speakers sound like they’re getting enough juice to perform.
(The pictures are from before the fuse was switched. I haven’t taken any from after) 
I do appreciate all the help that everyone provided.
Has anyone ever used MESA products by the way?


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

bilboaudio said:


> Why don't you make a recording and post a link to it as well as the rta?


Did you mean a sound recording?


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

LBaudio said:


> can you just open gain a bit on your tweeter amp,....
> 
> turn subwoofer off for a while and try to get your front end to sound decent. after you acomplish that start introducing sub to the system. Try to evalusate what is the problem with sound and go from there. if you have feeling that tweeters are to low in lvl - turn them up until you get desired balance. try to change polarity to only a pair of tweeters or mids and evaluate the result. When you have your phasing between drivers correct, you will get illusion of strong center image, speakers will almost "dissapear". if you hear sound coming from a speakers without strong center you need to work on this some more. The same goes to the sub - if you hear it from position from where it is mounted your phasing between front system and sub is wrong..... big polarity issues lead to dull sound usually.
> 
> ...


The problem was the fuse/fuse holder, but thank you for this info. This is definitely what I have to do next in order to make the sound/image/staging better.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sal89 said:


> The problem was the fuse/fuse holder, but thank you for this info. This is definitely what I have to do next in order to make the sound/image/staging better.


I am totally surprised it was the fuse holder, but that just goes to show that the trouble shooting approach led to finding the causal issue.

Well done!


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> I am totally surprised it was the fuse holder, but that just goes to show that the trouble shooting approach led to finding the causal issue.
> 
> Well done!


I guess I have to look at everything when I troubleshoot next time. Question though, do you know a lot about head units?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

The fuse holder?? That's bizarre.

Your RTA snap shot indicates you need to raise your subwoofer output (if you have one) significantly and also lower the output on the tweeters a decent amount. Then there are a coupl epeaks to try and knock down with eq.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

captainobvious said:


> The fuse holder?? That's bizarre.
> 
> Your RTA snap shot indicates you need to raise your subwoofer output (if you have one) significantly and also lower the output on the tweeters a decent amount. Then there are a coupl epeaks to try and knock down with eq.


Yes, weird enough it was the Fuse holder. Now it doesn’t sound like tiny JBL pocket speakers but actual car speakers.

I had my sub unplugged when I took the RTA snap shot.

I do absolutely have to tune now (to the best of my ability) but first I need to get an RTA reading since I still haven’t done that.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Ya know. If you replaced the fuse holder and cut power to everything it could have reset everything back to stock. Could have been a setting. I have a hard time believing a fuse hold would make that much of a difference but stranger things have happened. Either way make sure all the rcas are plugged in properly and the routing is correct in the dsp. That can cause all kinda headaches. Ask me how I know. I was having a hard time tuning my daughters car and checked and rechecked everything to no avail. However I listen to a song by the doors and realized a guitar was not right and instantly found the problem. Routing was wrong and an rca was plugged in wrong.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sal89 said:


> I guess I have to look at everything when I troubleshoot next time. Question though, do you know a lot about head units?


No I do not. I know very little about them.

All I know if that when the head unit sounds bad through ear buds, it will not get better through the amp and speakers. It can only get worse as one goes from the source media down through the speakers. If the source material is bad, then one is starting off bad. And if the amps and speakers are adding distortion or noise then it gets worse.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Iamsecond said:


> Ya know. If you replaced the fuse holder and cut power to everything it could have reset everything back to stock. Could have been a setting. I have a hard time believing a fuse hold would make that much of a difference but stranger things have happened. Either way make sure all the rcas are plugged in properly and the routing is correct in the dsp. That can cause all kinda headaches. Ask me how I know. I was having a hard time tuning my daughters car and checked and rechecked everything to no avail. However I listen to a song by the doors and realized a guitar was not right and instantly found the problem. Routing was wrong and an rca was plugged in wrong.


It might have been a bad install/connection. I am going back and trying learn to fix things myself since I always took it to shops. Of course you get what you paid for.

Yes I made sure all the RCAs are in correctly since I tore them out of my truck trying to find the problem lol What I am using is the head unit to tune. I don’t have an external DSP installed. 
I do have a TWK88 sitting in my garage but haven’t had much luck with that either so it’s just going to sit there. Maybe I’ll throw it in one day if I ever meet someone in person thats knowledgeable and is willing to help me.

I can Imagine how you felt.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> No I do not. I know very little about them.
> 
> All I know if that when the head unit sounds bad through ear buds, it will not get better through the amp and speakers. It can only get worse as one goes from the source media down through the speakers. If the source material is bad, then one is starting off bad. And if the amps and speakers are adding distortion or noise then it gets worse.


Ok, Now I just need to make sure everything else is working properly. Maybe one day I’ll leave the whole thing alone due to me being content.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Ok, so I want to post about my progress on this situation just to give someone something to read. 

After I changed the fuse and fuse holder (the one by the amps) it did help, but after spending more time listening to the system it still didn’t sound right. 

During one of my drives home from work, one of the tweeters on my rainbows would cut out and come back on. I switched the x-overs (from one side to the other)just to see if the problem would switch sides and it did. So I have a bad x-over on that set. 

I then switched them out for my Focals, Although my Focals still didn’t sound like they were playing to their full potential. 

So I changed the fuse and fuse holder at the battery, changed the power, ground and speaker wires and Made a new grounding point.

I also had a shop look at my truck and they believed I’ve had voltage drop problems, so I changed my battery and alternator (currently have 145 amp one) and am using stock wiring. 

After all of this everything sounds clear but it sounds like they’re not getting enough power. I believe at 2ohms my Focals shouldn’t struggle to play at it’s full potential but it seems like there’s a problem where I’m not looking. Could my amp be struggling to get the power it needs to drive my system? Could my amp be the problem? So this is where I’m at with this.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Sal89 said:


> After all of this everything sounds clear but it sounds like they’re not getting enough power. I believe at 2ohms my Focals shouldn’t struggle to play at it’s full potential but it seems like there’s a problem where I’m not looking.


What does this even sound like? A speaker receiving less power will simply play quieter. Are you saying that you think they should get louder than they do? I have no idea what a struggling speaker sounds like in this context.

By the way, I'm not trying to sound like an ass, we just need a better description of what it sounds like in order to help. The way you described it above is nonsensical.


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

gijoe said:


> What does this even sound like? A speaker receiving less power will simply play quieter. Are you saying that you think they should get louder than they do? I have no idea what a struggling speaker sounds like in this context.
> 
> By the way, I'm not trying to sound like an ass, we just need a better description of what it sounds like in order to help. The way you described it above is nonsensical.


I know man, I have no idea how to explain honestly.
All I know is that at one point everything was clear, instruments were full, I could hear every detail of music, I could feel guitar plucks, Voices sounded amazing, and everything sounded “open” (I know no one understands when I say open.)
Now they don’t sound like this.


And no I don’t need them to sound louder, I just need them to perform how they used to which I have no idea how to explain.

A lot of my explaining is based off me from playing live music. Yes it is different but up to certain extend. Like cymbals to me should sound full and not like “sprinkles”. (I know some people are definitely not going to understand that)


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

I do have a question if anybody wants to chime in.
I tested the ohms on the Focals. The woofers come out to 2, and one tweeter came out to 2 also and the other one 2 point infinity (bunch of numbers after the period) Is that bad?


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Ok I think I finally solved my dilemma with my truck. 




Fuse and fuse holder made a difference, but didn’t solve the problem. 
Changed my JL speakers to my Rainbows to see how this would turn out. Rainbow tweeter would cut out. Switched sides of X-Overs and problem switched so I have a bad X-Over with that set.
Switched my Rainbows to my Focals. Still sounded bad. I changed the Power Wire, ground wire and speaker wires. The ground was bad. There was six holes that were rusted from previous shops doing who knows what. So I had the holes grinded and welded. Then made a new hole for a new ground which I ended up buying the JL Ground lug. 
After all of this my Focals still sounded bad. So I switched my amp to my old original amp that I used to use and that made a huge difference in the performance. So there is something wrong with my second amp but not sure what. 
Finally I was able to pinpoint another issue. One tweeter sounds recessed. So I unplugged the external X-Overs on the Focals and plugged the speakers directly into the amp and used the settings on there to set the crossovers. Everything performed like it used to except the one tweeter. Yes the tweeter is bad. 
So after over a year of struggling with this I think I have finally solved this puzzle of craziness. Now I just need to replace my Focals with a functioning component set, and everything should go back to being enjoyable.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

A single probablem can take poeple a while to sort out.

When you more than one issue it can be harder.
I think you had a tweeter, XO, and amp...


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## Sal89 (Jan 20, 2018)

Holmz said:


> A single probablem can take poeple a while to sort out.
> 
> When you more than one issue it can be harder.
> I think you had a tweeter, XO, and amp...


Yeah brother, Any problem you can think of, I most likely have.


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