# Jay's 2015 Mazda 6i Touring build thread



## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK, since the Kia is gone, I guess I'll start a build thread for the new car.

I'm not planning to use any of the old equipment in the new car. 
Here's the current (evolving) plan...but I haven't bought anything yet.

*Head Unit*
Pioneer AVIC-4100NEX
PAC Audio SWI-RC for steering wheel controls. 
May use an Arduino to integrate the knob in the center console.
If I don't use the SWI-RC, I will probably do an iDatalink Maestro RR
Axxess Interfaces AX-MAZCAM-6V to retain the factory backup camera
Microbypass Parking brake interface
Axxess Interfaces AX-USB-35-EXT USB/Aux plate (there is an issue with retaining the factory port in the center console)
Metra 95-7522B Dash kit

*Front Stage*

Illusion Audio C3CX 3" point source coaxes, likely on the a-pillar
Illusion Audio C8W 8" shallow midbass in the door. Not cutting the car up this time, or giving up my foot room. Besides, there's a fuse box in the
kick panel.

*Subwoofer(s)*

Acoustic Elegance IB12AU's (I have a 14 cu ft trunk, and the numbers say 2 of these give me a system Q of .702)

*Signal Processing*

Undecided, but leaning toward:

Mosconi 4to6 or 6to8v8
Mosconi RC Mini (so I can use an Arduino to interface my volume controls with the processor)

*Power/Ground Distribution/Wire*

I saved my Streetwires Distro block and ground block from the Rio.
Will probably pick up a 200A breaker for up by the battery.
Power/speaker wire will likely be from Knu Koncepts again. Second choice is Tspec (which I can get locally).

Probably going to run 14ga to all the speakers, and 12 or 10 to the subs.

There may or may not be some Techflex involved. lol

*Amplification*

Currently thinking about either (2) Alpine PDX-V9's, or a PDX-F4, and F6 and an M12. 
I'm leaning toward these because I might build an amp rack that hangs from the rear deck and I could hide all the wires, and the controls would all face out for easy accessibilty.

This car ACTUALLY came with a spare tire, and I want to leave it in there, if I go with my second choice amps (2 Arc Audio KS300.4's and a KS1200.1) or 3rd choice (Mosconi) I'd have to put them down there.

*Sound Control/NVH*

Mainly Soundskins deadener and speaker rings (although FAST rings might make an appearance if Soundskins doesn't have an 8" ring)
MLV (at least in the front doors.)

*RCA's*

Probably Stinger 6000 series. 

That's my current plan. I'm sure it will change some before I start tearing the car apart.

*The Victim:*



2015 Mazda 6i Touring, in Snowflake white pearl. Black Leather(ette) interior. 
19" wheels, manually shiftable automatic transmission (no paddles), dual zone A/C, rear seat heat/A/C vents, push button start, etc.

It will be getting tinted with Panaflex heat rejection window film.

The current HU has HD Radio, USB, Aux, Pandora control, Bluetooth and hands free. And the implementation of just about all of it is horrible.
Since I don't have Bose, the radio doesn't control any of the car's options, so changing it won't present a problem.
However, cars with the Bose option have a 9" woofer in the door. And I've seen TheJesus' build thread on here and Mazda6club's forum, and he got Hybrid L8's in his, so the C8's should be easy. Haha.

Rear speakers will remain off the radio power, so that I can fade them off or on when there are rear passengers.

That's what I'm thinking anyway...lol

Jay


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

I can't wait to see where you take this new build


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Sounds like this one is going to be really nice. If you decide you want to go with Arc KSs, let me know. I've got a KS900.6 and KS600.2 in great condition that I'll be selling soon.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks guys.

I'm going to try to collect everything before I put it in and go with a solid plan of attack instead of making changes part way through.

I'm enjoying this car a lot right now, and I like to drive when we travel, so I want to keep it's functionality intact. 

If I don't go IB, I'll do some shallow subs so I don't lose too much of my trunk.

It's 45" deep at the bottom, the rear seat opening is 39" wide and from floor to rear deck brace is about 16 or 16.5"

I almost want to keep my Bitone, but I'd like something with more (some) parametric bands. Not a fan of the PS-8.

Jay


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I've been very happy with my 6to8 V8. I know some people don't care for the Mosconi interface, but I haven't had any issues with it.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

It's not as intuitive as the Bitone or Helix, but once you've done a few they're not bad.

I can't remember if the 6to8v8 had parametric or not. I'll have to look.

Jay


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

JayinMI,,,,,, my opinion I think you should do the build in the jeep in the back ground,,,,, you might get more followers,,,, lol.


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## danzell (Jan 25, 2015)

Following


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

The Mosconi processors do have parametric EQ. The newer models group the EQ differently than the old.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

toneloc2 said:


> JayinMI,,,,,, my opinion I think you should do the build in the jeep in the back ground,,,,, you might get more followers,,,, lol.


That Jeep has had all the "system" it's probably going to get since '09. lol
My GF doesn't care about sounds. She let me put a radio, amp and sub in it because I drive in it ocassionally. Admittedly, she does like the radio and CarPlay.

For the record, it has:

Pioneer AVIC 4200NEX
TMA 4 channel amp
JL Audio 8w3 on the fender well because I had to remove the Infinity sub to make room for her brother's wheelchair lift.

Jay


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

Hey Jay, 

That is one of the best carד today a person can get if he intends to install an after market audio system!

The doors are made to endorse 9 inch woofers due to the bose system option. 

I had a friend which installed a morel elate 903 in the stock locations - on a Genesis dual mono extreme (903 passive setup). 

A small touch of time correction, minimal eq correction and the car sounds like a dream.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

JayinMI said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If u decide to part with the Bit One, keep me in mind. Looking for one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

Check out their new baby: Bit One HD

Audison bit One HD


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

I've got a spare 6to8v8 if you need it...


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I keep going back and forth on changing the processor.
I've had the BitOne.1 for about 8 years now and other than an LCD display issue on an old DRC, it's been bullet proof. 

I've also already interfaced the steering wheel controls with the DRC in my old car (so I already know how to do that, and it wouldn't be much more than changing the button values to get it to work in this car).

The software is pretty simple to figure out. If the 6to8 had a similar GUI I'd have already switched. lol

The only down side, and I haven't experienced this personally, is that if you try to feed an optical signal sampled at something over 44.1k, it will lock up, I'm told. Not a big deal for me, unless I change to a Sony GS9 or something in the future (not real likely).

Either way, I'll probably post all the stuff I decide to sell this weekend, including my C10XL and my 3 Sony Mobile ES amps. I also have a set of budger Kenwood components and a Dayton RSS265HO. There will be a few things going up soon.

I did pick up my radio of choice today from a co worker. It's used, but I got it for about $60 below cost and it came with a harness, dash kit (not for my car) and a Microbypass.

That will be going in soon because the factory radio sucks.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

eddieg said:


> Hey Jay,
> 
> That is one of the best carד today a person can get if he intends to install an after market audio system!
> 
> ...


Yeah. The car is very solid, and even with 37000 miles on it doesn't squeak or rattle. I saw TheJesus' build thread on here and on the Mazda forum and he got Hybrid Legatia L8's in the doors. My plan is for Illusion C8W's in the doors (with lots of Soundskins and some MLV) and some Illusion C3CX's initially in the dash, but later probably in pods on the a-pillar.

Mine didn't come with the Bose option (thankfully) but I like that the option for a large woofer is there.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

JayinMI said:


> Not a fan of the PS-8.
> 
> Jay


I got to put one in yesterday. They've updated the software, from the looks of it, since the last one I did. I didn't hate it.

Jay


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

As for bit rate - the Bit One HD does 24/192 so you don't get the power cycling issue any more when you use Android 6 for example and you would also be able to use the GS9 if that is the case. 

This is also true for the BIT TEN D 

The only thing I am not sure of is if the Bit One HD can work with the old DRC just as well. I know the Bit Play can work with either one of them but the HD processor - not sure.

P.S - For android 6 in many cases you can change the sound configuration file so that it won't try to sync any higher than 16/48


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm not going to run my tablet (which is only like Android 4.4 anyway), and most likely not a GS9, so I'm not that concerned with it. The BitOne sold, so I need to come up with something. Looking at the Helix DSP.2 right now, but that could change.

I drive a lot and have never gotten around to competeing, so I'm using a Pioneer NEX radio as my head unit.

Jay


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

Yeah, I thought I'd probably stay with My Nexus 7 and sabre DAC forever - The custome ROM I use on it was 4.4 based too. 

But eventually some application I really liked to install no longer supported anything lower than 5.1 and the Nexus hardware started failing on me - Charging port - fixed, battery, swapped but finally the internal storage gave up...

When I got sick of being tied up to a single tablet and looking for smartphones that support USB Audio and host - Getting them to work without audio issues each time the OS upgraded I finally decided that for me it is not the way to go.

So I went and got my self a Mosconi AMAS-2 and hooked it up to my Bit One Optical in and ever since that moment I can simply use as a head unit what ever comes up in mind that can stream audio via BT. 

The AMAS-2 can hook it self up to anything that has an optical input and it is connected directly to the car electrical system - Another option you may consider.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I have considered it, actually...and it's always an option since the processors I'm considering all have optical in. I could also do something like Bertholomey is doing and run a media player like the Fiio he has. When I run all my cabling, I'll just run an optical cable with everything "just in case" I use a media player, and extra power/ground for an AMAS-2 as well.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, after running a tablet in my last car for a few years, I decided it really wasn't worth it. Especially after I put a Pioneer 4200NEX in my GF's Jeep.
My tablet runs on Android 4.4, and in order to run Android Auto you need _at least_ 5.0. When it got cold, I'd have charging issues that usually required me to remove the tablet from the car and charge it in the house to knock some sense back in to it.

When I recently upgraded to my '15 Mazda 6i Touring, I was quite happy with everything about the car _except_ the audio system. It had a lot of features I wanted (BT hands free, read/send SMS messages, Pandora integration, etc) but they were all integrated very badly. One thing I never liked about having a tablet was that with a Samsung Tablet and Motorola phone, there was no simple way to allow me to make and answer calls from the tablet...so I decided to go with a Pioneer 4100NEX for myself. I picked it up pretty reasonably from a co-worker who also got a new vehicle, and he isn't changing his radio, so he didn't need this anymore. With a firmware update, it's essentially the same as a 4200NEX.

Now, The last few years, my GF and I do some roadtrips...and this radio can do Apple Car Play and Android Auto. You have to use specific USB ports for each, however. I'm really into factory integration...but this car only had one USB and an AUX port in the center console, and there is some issue using any of the few pieces that are supposed to retain the factory USB port. So, I did a little research and found out the Axxess Interfaces (Metra) makes a piece called the AX-FDUSBAUX. It is intended to replace a knockout on Ford vehicles, and gives you 2 separate USB ports, an AUX AND an HDMI. I picked on up on Amazon. I opened up the hole in the center console where the factory ports were, and put this in it's place. Let's start there...

Here's my collection of parts:



Factory USB/Aux



Measured, and marked for cutting.



Hole cut.



New panel in place.



Harness Tesa taped, and run along the passenger side of the console.







One snafu, tho. I ordered an 18" extension for the HDMI cable, and 3 foot USB extensions...The HDMI came up about 8" short. I don't plan to ever use the feature, but I'll probably order a 3' extension just because.

The reason I wanted to have both USB ports accessible, is because I use an Android phone and she has an iPhone. This way whoever is driving can just plug their phone in and go. She's used to Car Play from her Jeep anyway.

I guess this is the first official "build" post in the thread. lol

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

The HU came with a Microbypass which lets me avoid having to trigger the parking brake before I can get into certain menus and/or set destinations for Nav, etc.
I picked up the Dash kit, wiring harness and antenna adapter for $20 on eBay, and also got a Metra (Axxess) AX-MAZCAM-6V which allows me to retain the factory camera, and comes with a piece so I can feed it 6V like it wants to see. I also got 2 3' USB extensions, 1 18" HDMI extension and used one of my leftover 3' RCA's for Aux. No idea why the pic in the above post is upside down.

I picked up the PAC SWI-RC from work, even tho it doesn't officially support this car, it works with some others that use the same radio. It's also easier to manually program than the Metra (Axxess) ASWC-1. That might come into play later if I attempt to integrate the i-Drive style knob in the center console. 

Anyway, here's the obligitory "Installed" pics of the radio.





Get to try it out more tomorrow. The lack of steering wheel controls will suck for now, but at least it came with a wireless remote.

Jay


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

Regarding the tablet issues, I hear you... I hear you! 

This is why for me what works out best is just using my smartphone with BT direct connection to the AMAS.

The good thing about it is that ANY phone can connect so no matter who drives it would work.

But steering integration, FM Radio - these are all things I don't really use any of them ( I use the DRC only for volume control) 

The OEM brands HUs work much smoother, definitely something I miss having now and then.

Man, awesome work over the car! I'm sub'ed!


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

MrGreen83 said:


> If u decide to part with the Bit One, keep me in mind. Looking for one
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


too bad i didn't see this. i had one but put it in it's rightful place.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I loved my BitOne. Never had an issue with it, except for a DRC display go out like 7 years ago. The 2 biggest complaints that you can't do Hi-res via optical without it locking up (not a concern for me) and no parametric bands.
It's a perfectly capable DSP.

But so many more (now better) DSPs have come out since then, I wanted to try something else. It served me well. 

Jay


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Looking forward to your build Jay. The Mazda6 is a nice car. We test drove one before getting the SUV for the wife. Also- My Mazdaspeed 3 was also very well put together. Never had issues with rattles or squeaks in that car. They are doing a nice job.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I thought your wife had a Corolla. She upgrade too?

Jay


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

jtaudioacc said:


> too bad i didn't see this. i had one but put it in it's rightful place.


spot on


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I've been a little lax at keeping up with my build thread over here, let me get things up to date.

I bought a PAC SWI-RC and it didn't work (I now know why...but we'll get to that).
It isn't officially supported on the 6, but it is supported for the CX-5 and they use the same HU so I thought I'd try it.

After it didn't work, I ordered a Maestro SW. More expensive, programs on a computer via USB, has setting for short and long-hold on each button. Way cooler. Still didn't work...well, at least the BT buttons didn't work. And that made Android Auto suck. I didn't like that I had to touch the actual screen to launch voice commands.

So today, I pulled the radio back out and did some investigating.

The wire in the factory harness that is supposed to be for the BT buttons is green/org.
With the car off, it had showed varying resistances when pushing buttons. With the car on it had a rest resistance of around 688 ohms. (The SWI-RC didn't work because it was reading this as a button press).

I unplugged the external BT module above the glovebox. That didn't seem to matter, except now the car isn't constantly trying to pair with my phone.

So, I went to the steering column. Right behind the steering wheel, there are 2 plugs. A yellow one and a white one. From the wire side view, there is a green/org wire in the lower right corner. I ended up having to cut it, and extend the steering wheel side up to the Maestro. I connected that to the pink/red wire and voila! it works now!

I can initiate voice commands from the steering wheel, answer, end and ignore phone calls as well.

I set up the VR button to mute the radio on a short pulse, and do voice commands on a long press.

I sold my old school Sony amps, my Illusion sub, and my BitOne, so I'm on my way to being able to order new gear.

Currently leaning toward:

(2) Alpine PDX-V9's
(1) Alpine PDX-M12
(1) Mosconi 8to12 Aerospace
(1) Mosconi RC-Mini DSP controller
(1 set) Illusion Audio C3CX point source components 
(1 pr) Illusion Audio C8-W's 8" midbass
(1 pr) Acoustic Elegance IB12AU-4 12" subwoofers

The M12 may come later, I can get away with the 2 V9's for now, and switch later...which will give me the option of doing rear fill as well.

I'm also considering a Fiio Hi Res player since the 8to12 will do 24/192 natively and not have to down convert. But that can also come later. I will prewire for it when I run everything.

That should put us up to date.

Jay


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Looking forward to see where this goes. I love the choice of the front stage....


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks, Kelly. I've wanted the C3CX's for a while, and I'm a big fan of getting the biggest speakers up front that I can. I know some other people who are running the same setup...plus we're an Orca dealer so I can get the C8's cheaper than JL ZR800's or Hybrid L8's. The Bose version of my car comes with 9" in the front door.

It'll be a little while. Still need some money for the rest of the equipment, and then however long it takes to have it shipped to me. But I hope to take a week off to get most of the install sometime in early summer.

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Looking forward to seeing that build with C8's. Having finally gotten to hear the C3CX's in John's Audi, I'm a fan. I really liked them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

JayinMI said:


> I thought your wife had a Corolla. She upgrade too?
> 
> Jay



Yeah about a year ago we traded it in and got her something a little nicer. Her car was never the same after an accident in a parking lot where someone ran a stop sign and T boned her car. It never drove right after repair and had an uneasy shimmy to it. After getting it looked at again and again I finally said enough. More important she was safe on the road, so we got her an suv instead.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Yeah about a year ago we traded it in and got her something a little nicer. Her car was never the same after an accident in a parking lot where someone ran a stop sign and T boned her car. It never drove right after repair and had an uneasy shimmy to it. After getting it looked at again and again I finally said enough. More important she was safe on the road, so we got her an suv instead.



It's good she's got a new safe ride now. Yeah when you tweak a car frame/chassis, they're never the same. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Achievement Unlocked:

Amps Purchased! lol

Today I picked up a couple of Alpine PDX-V9's from work. 


The plan is to run them actively: (each running one side of the car)

100W to the tweeters in the C3CX's I have yet to buy.
100W to the mids in the C3CX's
200W to the C8-W's
500W to the Sub.

Also, if I decide to, I can run the passive crossovers of the C3CX's and leave two channels open for future rear fill duties...Or I can add a PDX-M12 and reconfigure:

100W to the tweeters
200W to the mids
500W to the C8-W's
600W to each sub 
100W to rear fill speakers.

Seems like a pretty flexible setup for now.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

that plan sounds familiar


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

My Orca order was a little more than I expected, and I was trying to figure out why.
I thought it was because I ordered (2) C8 woofers, and got the 8" component set but, no, I only got 2 C8's in a _box_ from the C8 component sets. They mailed me an invoice, and it looks like the 
8to12 Aero has gone up in price since last quarter.

But the stuff came:



So, my amps are here. My Orca stuff is here, my RCA-making supplies might be here tomorrow. 

Getting there!

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

Enjoy!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

All my stuff for my RCA's showed up today, so I made a demo piece.

The cabling I used is Gepco 6600, which has 2 separately shielded twisted pairs, with a single drain wire.
It's covered in Black/Neon Blue Techflex Tightweave. The cable pants came from Parts Express.
Ends are Rean NYS352BG's.





Jay


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> My Orca order was a little more than I expected, and I was trying to figure out why.
> I thought it was because I ordered (2) C8 woofers, and got the 8" component set but, no, I only got 2 C8's in a _box_ from the C8 component sets. They mailed me an invoice, *and it looks like the
> 8to12 Aero has gone up in price since last quarter.*


Nope.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks for the PM, Jacob. Cleared things up for me.

Jay


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

I'm considering making my own RCAs, what do i do with that drain wire?



JayinMI said:


> Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

There's a thread:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/8158-making-rca-cables.html

That I read through. There's some debate, actually.
Depending on signal, connecting the drain at the source end (radio, processor, etc.) and leaving the receiving end not connected is supposed to be good for noise rejection. But Chad said in a car it shouldn't come into play, iirc.

It's a good (long) read with lots of good info.

The Gepco 6600 has 2 shielded, twisted pairs, but only 1 drain wire. Just so I didn't get a ground loop or anything, I split it apart and ran half to the negative (shield) connection of the RCAs on each side.

I've also seen it where people connected it to a screw on the back of the radio, but this is cleaner looking.

Jay


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

They look nice Jay. Those ends are good quality and have a consistent machining profile so they fit the same and you don't get ones that are more loose or tight.

Like the tight weave techflex too.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> There's a thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Without reading it, makes sense. No current running through the shield if only terminated at one end as a ground. I dunno. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> They look nice Jay. Those ends are good quality and have a consistent machining profile so they fit the same and you don't get ones that are more loose or tight.
> 
> Like the tight weave techflex too.


I liked them because they were a little shorter than the other Neutrik ends. I didn't even know about the tightweave until I was playing around on wirecare.com's site.

I dig it tho.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Got some work done on my amp rack. Couldn't find the wrench to change discs on my angle grinder so i cut the tubing with my Milwaukee cordless Sawzall and used a flap disc on my Ryobi angle grinder to clean them up. 




I'm not a great welder, but I'm a pretty good grinder. lol













Ran out of time, probably this weekend I will finish the bracketry to mount the amps, processor and combo distro block.
I have a plan and the amp mounts are made. 

The rack will be held in place with 1/4-20 bolts (eventually anti-theft Torx or Allen, I think) and I should get my 1/4-20 rivnuts tomorrow along with BOTH my orders from Wirecare.com I'm thinking of making so pieces so I can bolt the rear deck to the amp rack as well as the front and rear mounts just to keep everything tight, but I don't know if it will be necessary.


Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. So, where I left off before, I had the basic frame and mounts put together. Today, I added all the brackets/captive nuts/etc. to hold both my PDX-V9's, my 8to12 Aerospace and my Streetwires Combo block. I drilled the holes and test fitted the riv nuts for the combo block.

I fabbed up some brackets, and then made some 1/2" MDF "PDX amps" so I could line everything up and make sure it was going to fit.



I double sided taped a piece to the bottom to keep them in place.



Clamped everything in place...



and welded it up...then hit it with the grinder to knock down the welds some. Hoping to test fit it and then paint it tomorrow or Tuesday.



While I had the welder out, I decided to make a mount for my Tsunami compression Fuse Holder. 

Fabbed a bracket with captive nuts, and ground a flat spot on top of the battery hold down:







Then welded it to the hold down...







Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Oh, also, I got an email back from AE, and they said my subs were "next up" to be built...probably this week. Kind of disappointed because it said typical lead times of a week, and it's been almost 3. Looks like The Vinny is out, since I won't have enough time to get everything in by then AND have money left over for a hotel. Slight chance I'll still make it...but it's VERY slim.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Thump!!!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Took the amp rack to work, cleaned off some weld spatter, hit it with a couple of coats of self etching primer and sprayed it with Duplicolor spray can bed liner.
Pretty happy with the finish. When I got home I installed the rivnuts for the distro block.









Will probably do the battery hold down to match.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK, thought I'd try Flickr. 

I picked up a new Brother label maker. This one can do 1/2 and 3/4" labels.
Went with white on black.



Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, Wasps keep hanging around my car, and it's been hot, but today the wasps have (mostly) stayed away and it was only about 73 degrees. So, I decided to run my Knu 12ga speaker wire into the door. Things were going about as expected until my Olfa blade broke, knife slipped, caught my thumb (luckily, callusses don't bleed) and slice my leg.

Anyway...

Driver's door:



Factory molex-style harness. The door side is a little weird, instead of just going inside the door, it runs along the edge of the door and wraps around the front.



There wasn't one spot large enough for the wire to fit through, so I relocated the pink wire (in an otherwise empty 8pin bank of spaces) over to free up that whole area.





I had had to do the same thing in my old Genesis Coupe, but alas, all the pics are gone.

So, I drilled out the 8 (now open) spaces to feed my wire through.





I added Blue/black techflex tightweave and ran it into position.

I had to cut the center bar out of the yellow piece to make room.






Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Made some more progress on my driver's door today.

Started with a piece of 12x24x1.5" black King Starboard. Rough cut it to the shape of my speaker adapter template and used a pattern bit to do the initial shape, then a 1/4" spiral flush trim to complete it.











Then I used the pattern bit to trim the sides down to about 3/4" high.



Then I used a 5/8" forstner bit to recess the mounting hardware.



And mounted on the door:





Jay


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

Damn, son! That looks factory.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Then I decided to pull the "door module." Which is the big plastic panel that the window motor is mounted to. Nick (Skizer) gave me a heads up on how to deal with it. 



Then I applied butyl rope on both sides of the crash bar.



Made some cardboard templates for my deadener, Black Noico 80mil for the outer door skin and some other areas. Sonic Barrier MX4 will be used elsewhere.



Then I made a template for the area the midbasses mount to.





I need to order some more butyl, some foam, security hardware and door panel clips.

But I made some progress.

Subs still not ready.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Worked on my car some more after work today. Finished my passenger speaker adapter, and got my (acrylic) dash speaker adapters mostly done.









Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Ever had one of those days? Today was one of them.

I started by running 12ga into my passenger door...except I forgot I had to put on my Techflex and labels first. So I did that.



Hard to see (phone camera wouldn't focus, but it's clear as a bell in person) but the label says "RF Midbass," and it is labeled every 16 inches.



Then I had to do the same thing I did on the driver's side...relocate a couple of wires so that I could Dremel out a spot for the wire to come through.

Before: 



After:



And then ran the wire into the door. Went a lot quicker because I knew what to expect.

IMG_20170730_171732528_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

So, that went OK...then I moved on to my dash speakers. I made two adapters out of 1/4" acrylic yesterday. All I had to do was drill the mounting holes for the speaker and drill the holes for the screws that hold them in the dash. First one turned out fine.



Then when I tried to use it as a template to drill the holes in the second one, the second one broke. So, I made another one. It broke as well. Now I know why you use specific drill bits for acrylic. Yay.

So I don't have any more acrylic (and was kinda pissed anyway) so I switched to 1/4" ABS, since it's easier to drill. First one turned out perfect. taped it down to another piece of ABS to make the second one, and of course the template tape let go 3/4 of the way through and messed up the second adapter. I don't have any more pieces of 1/4" acrylic or ABS big enough to make another one right now. 

But at least I have one good one (in 2 materials) to make another one. Or I can use 1 of each and see which holds up better. lol



At that point I took a break and came into the A/C.

Got a few things to do tomorrow, but I hope to get more wires techflexed and run either way. If I'm lucky, I can get amps hooked up and run without the processor for now so I can listen to the radio til next weekend.

Jay


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Looks awesome, constantly I'm snooping through your thread while I'm building my 2016 Mazda6. Great skills here.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

fourthmeal said:


> Looks awesome, constantly I'm snooping through your thread while I'm building my 2016 Mazda6. Great skills here.


Yeah, I do the same thing with your thread. lol
And TheJesus and JsunG (I think that's how he spells it, but it doesn't look right)

I'm hoping to get more wires run and my RCA's finished.
Tomorrow I need to put the amp rack in. Techflex and label wiring for the front dash speakers, finish labeling the driver's side midbass wire.
Power wire needs to be run, battery hold down needs to be painted and fuse holder mounted. 

Wish me luck!

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

is it done yet?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

No. And I'm getting sick of techflexing/labeling/heatshrinking things.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So this weekend, I had a few things going on, but managed to get some time in on the car.

Everything that I need to have sound in the car is run front to back, under the carpet. Other than the RCA's, and cable for the RC Mini controller, all the speaker wires are labeled every 16 inches. Everything is covered in blue/black Techflex tightweave for abrasion resistance.

Saturday night I put the rest of the ends on my RCA's. I labeled both ends.

IMG_20170807_113407832 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_113424993 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

And on Monday I managed to run everything front to rear.

IMG_20170807_131854942 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_131827360 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_121736883 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_122116293 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_122123714 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_122140720 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_125552431_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_121520672_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170807_150642041_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

A little project at work right now. Getting it ready for the Woodward Dream Cruise.

IMG_20170804_174927518 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170805_152522562 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170805_153822576_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170805_154232208 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170805_154232208 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

It's also getting 2 Alpine Type-R 6x9's. 

Jay


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I dig those rcas!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

optimaprime said:


> I dig those rcas!


Thanks. I'm pretty happy with how they turned out. I hope they work as expected. lol

Jay


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Love it, man! I finally got my system operational in my 6. HIGHLY impressed with the PAC adapter, btw. I have a label maker and all manner of clear heat shrink but man... I just can't bring myself to the sheer labor of doing it all bad-ass like you have done. Are you planning on competing?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm doing the install in case I compete Install. There's some little things I need to touch up, and I need to order security hardware before that happens, tho.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, I had planned to work on the car Saturday night, but fell asleep as soon as I got home. 

Sunday, I had to make 4 trips to Home Depot to get screws for remove the push terminals from my C8's.





This should allow me to clear the metal in the door. The terminals might have just been touching, so this should clear it for sure.
I stole the idea from someone in a Facebook group, where someone else did the same thing on their C8's. I thought he's said he used 8-32 screws.

So I went to Home Depot and got some, but they were too big. Just.
Then I went back and something else...still didn't fit.
Then I realized it was probably metric. So, I went back and got some M4-.7 1/2" screws. and they were just too short.
4th trip got me right with M4-.7 20mm long. 

I also got my adapter rings for my C3CX's made from 1/4" ABS. 



So, I need to wire up the fuse holder, the wire from the battery to the fuse holder and the ground wire to the distro.
Do a couple of things for the turn on, and a few little things. Hoping to have it playing Tuesday now.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

looks good. what do you have for power right now?

i think you said you might do stages, wasn't sure if you got them all up front.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Nick,

I have 2 PDX V9's. 

One for each side, so:

Ch1 = tweeter, 100W
Ch2 = mid, 100W
Ch3/4 bridged = Midbass, 200W
Ch5 = Sub, 500W

I got your PM, and I did my wiring with Deans connectors, and made an inline setup with a 50 mircofarad cap for tweeter protection, but I can still add the crossovers in either at the back or the front. I hadn't realized the passives were bi-ampable, since I hadn't planned on using them, I hadn't really looked.

I know last year at Finals, John (SubterFUSE) was telling me about an issue with his C3CX's, and Nick Wingate was mad at him because he didn't use the passives. I was already thinking about using them, but the system isn't up and running yet, so we'll see.

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Great progress! Those illusions look like they're going to be fun drivers.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

One nice thing about deadening the hell out of these Mazda doors... they at least open and shut like normal doors now instead of the tinny, ultra-light type effect they start with stock. With those C8's in the doors, I'm imagining you've got a lot of deadening work ahead of you. With my AD W600's crossed at a benign 75Hz, I'm still battling tons of resonance in the upper panel area. Always a struggle!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I used butyl rope around the crash bar, and that alone made a huge difference. Then I put Noico 80Mil black on the (pretty much) entire outer skin. I put the circle I cut out of the speaker mounting hole behind it, so there's 2 layers directly behind the woofer. I just finished adding my Fast Rings to the passenger door. I picked up some 1" Sonic Barrier foam and still have a couple of cases of MX4. I like to think I'm prepared, but for the time being I'm hoping to have sound tomorrow, and have some time to tune it.

My subs were supposed to ship by today, but I don't expect to have them before I get back from SVR. I won't be competing this weekend. Sorry, Skizer. lol I thought about entering just so I could park inside, but then I figured if I needed my car, I'd be stuck.

I may also cancel my hotel room for Friday to save a little more money. I probably can't afford to go, but I'm going anyway. The Snap-On guy didn't bother to show up, so he isn't getting paid this week. lol

I'll get some pics up soon...

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Passenger door is deadened (outer and inner skin) with Noico 80mil. Illusion C8 is installed with Fastrings. Today, I'm going to do the Driver's door, connect ground, power, turn on and install the crossovers for the C3CX's and the speakers. Hope it doesn't rain.

The other day, I soldered my 14ga Knu speaker wire onto my C3CX's, and added Deans connectors. I made an inline piece with a 50microfarad cap for tweeter protection, but after talking to Nick Adams, I think I'm just going to put the included crossovers in instead. At least for break in.

IMG_20170813_124148276_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170813_123208311 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

FastRings installed:

IMG_20170814_202204398 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

There's a set of Deans connectors in there, and heat shrunk so they don't ever come apart.

IMG_20170814_201943022 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

A casualty from working on the bike!

IMG_20170814_135401995 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Jay


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> OK. Passenger door is deadened (outer and inner skin) with Noico 80mil. Illusion C8 is installed with Fastrings. Today, I'm going to do the Driver's door, connect ground, power, turn on and install the crossovers for the C3CX's and the speakers. Hope it doesn't rain.
> 
> The other day, I soldered my 14ga Knu speaker wire onto my C3CX's, and added Deans connectors. I made an inline piece with a 50microfarad cap for tweeter protection, but after talking to Nick Adams, I think I'm just going to put the included crossovers in instead. At least for break in.
> 
> ...


Get ahold of Micah at EAS about that Stik piece. I'm betting he'll send you a replacement from the new EASY line.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Dave from eAsy knows about it. lol I sent him a picture. 
It was totally my fault, so I wouldn't expect them to do that. 

After it dug in I was just like "F it," and kept going back out.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Spent all morning making a mount for my RC Mini (which is just temporary/proof of concept) and tracking down issues that had me ready to tear my hair out.
Apparently, I test fit the passenger coax, and it fit so I bolted it in and put the grill back. Just forget to plug the wires in. Doh!

Then I had my RF Midbass connected to the midrange out of the C3CX crossover. So when I was trying to mute channels What should have been channel 6, wasn't muting, and the dash speaker on that side wasn't working.

Got it all working now. Still no sub, but my AE's are supposed to be here today (of course!) according to UPS.

I had planned to leave around 10am, and get there around 4, but looks like it's going to be more like 7-8pm. *sigh* At least it's the day before the show.
I was hoping to get some tuning done, but I basically (down and dirty) set my gains and roughly set my TA. 

Good thing I'm not competing. lol

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

JayinMI said:


> Got it all working now. Still no sub, but my AE's are supposed to be here today (of course!) according to UPS.
> 
> I had planned to leave around 10am, and get there around 4, but looks like it's going to be more like 7-8pm. *sigh* At least it's the day before the show.
> I was hoping to get some tuning done, but I basically (down and dirty) set my gains and roughly set my TA.
> ...


So, a little update...2 hours after I left I got an email that my subs arrived. Of course. But hey, they're here now, and I have tomorrow off. 

Also, my 8to12 Aero isn't saving my T/A settings. I'd set them, close the program down and when I pulled it back up later, all of it was zeroed out. I talked to Nick Wingate about it at the show, to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong, and I mentioned I was using the MOS-BTM but I was going to try the cable (which I left at home, of course) when I got back and he was like "Just use the cable." lol

Then Nick (Apicella) got in my car to listen and turned on Listening Position, Left on my Pioneer 4100NEX...and now my stage is from pillar to pillar, center is pretty good (a little left, wanders maybe 2 or 3 inches rarely) and it doesn't rainbow much. Sounds like it has some potential. I'm going to turn it back off and actually set TA with the processor, because there are definitely some phase/TA issues because I'm only using the front outputs into the 8to12.

Nick (Wingate) also gave me some advice that I hope to implement soon.

Show was a blast. 

Jay

I also have some suggestions


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, I went out and started working on my IB wall. Tore the whole back of the car apart, rerouted some wiring and made a cardboard template.

IMG_20170823_122528176_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170823_122445467_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170823_131029180_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Then I transferred that to a piece of 1/4 MDF and made some adjustments. Then made 3 more pieces out of 3/4 MDF. I was going to use Baltic Birch 13 Ply plywood, but the only place I could find the B/BB stuff closed up shop a couple months ago. 

IMG_20170823_143511507 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170823_190602329_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170823_184342178 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

This weekend, I plan to figure out the mounting (1/4-20 T-nuts and Rivnuts, and some metal bracketry)

Probably going to recess the subs into the baffle. Once I have all the mounting figured out, I think I'm going to run the baffle through the router and
take like 1/8-1/4 off all the way around so I have room for caulk or foam or something and the wood won't rub on the metal and potentially squeak.

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

You make it look easy Jay!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Worked on final fitment, then cut the holes and made some brackets. 1/4-20 Rivnuts in the metal, and there will be 1/4-20 T-nuts in the wood.
I will be building a trim panel (eventually) to hide all the hardware.

IMG_20170827_152158590_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170827_210119879 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Jay


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Very nice!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Looking great, both the car and the install.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Looking Good Jay. I'm following your and Lason's builds closely.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, I made some more progress. I finished all the brackets for my IB wall, made sure everything fit, trimmed a couple of tight areas, made sure everything fit, and then blew it back apart to glue the layers together.

IMG_20170903_190238275 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170903_190305635 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

I installed 1/4-20 T-nuts in the 2nd layer for the brackets to bolt to. They're countersunk and epoxied in.

IMG_20170903_162342895_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

All the brackets are lined with a foam tape I found at Home Depot today.

IMG_20170903_204126148 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170903_204553048 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Painted the area around the subs, but plan to carpet the whole panel after I build the trim piece to seal it to the seat sides/bottom. 

IMG_20170903_211904574 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Bolted back in...all 1/4-20 hardware that attaches to either rivnuts or T-nuts, with fender washers and lock washers.

IMG_20170903_213103083 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

There is about 1/16-3/16 gap in most places around the wall, which I did on purpose to reduce tactile response. I filled the small gaps with black silicone.

IMG_20170903_215302957 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Subs go in tomorrow, so I can try them out!

Jay


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Amazing work!


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Love me some IB goodness,definitely in for the finished product.Good job.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

They're in and playing. I deadened the rear deck with 70% Noico 80mil and about 100% Sonic Barrier MX4. Then I added Sonic Barrier 1" foam on top so the rear deck won't rattle.

IMG_20170904_093105637 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_104223762_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_105754842 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_112925911_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_121224333 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_120137853_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_123641201_TOP by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170904_132916888_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

Is it done yet?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Close enough for now. lol

Jay


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Woot woot!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Looking good Jay! I'm interested to see how you feel the added weight of the system and sound treatment affect the overall performance/feel of the car. The wife and I are still on the hunt, but I believe she has settled on a 6 GT.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

All in all, I don't notice any difference. I've probably added 75-100lbs overall. 
The subs are stated to be 18lbs apiece shipping weight, but I'd bet they're less than that. 
The deadener on the rear deck made a big difference in road noise.

Happy with the setup so far. I'm doing deadener as I go, and so far I've been pretty rattle-free. The right front door was rattling a little on a couple of tracks in particular, but that was before I got the subs in and I had my C8's crossed over a 50Hz. lol

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Had planned on doing some tuning today, but had something else to do this morning. Talked to Jacob at Orca about why I couldn't save my T/A settings on my 8to12 Aero, and he got me figured out.

When we were at SVR Nick (Skizer) turned on the Listening Position setting to Left Front on my 4100NEX. With it on, the center was pretty good, stage height and width were decent as well, but I lost some midbass, and didn't have subs installed yet. 

I turned it off and turned the EQ setting I was using on the radio to Flat.

Just getting the T/A in the ballpark resulted in more midbass, but the stage width and depth suffered some. Center is still close. But the Flat setting sounded 100x better than when I had it on before I left for SVR. 

Makes it sound like I'm moving in the right direction.

Hope to do some tuning this weekend, which will give me time to reaquaint myself with REW.

Also, the AE's do OK when I have them turned up, so I may turn the gains up a little so I can keep my sub level down more to give me a little more adjustability. 

Jay


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I had some phase weirdness in my system tuning initially, but once that got ironed out I'd confidently say that stage height and depth is pretty awesome with the factory mid-tweet location.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

It was pretty good with the Pioneer on "Left Front," but I think it will do better using actual time alignment. It sounds like it's got some potential.

The only other thing I was considering was making new, more acoustically transparent grills, but that moves me up a class.

Jay


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Hey jay who makes that sonic barrier stuff?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

optimaprime said:


> Hey jay who makes that sonic barrier stuff?


https://www.parts-express.com/brand/sonic-barrier/494


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## What? (Jun 5, 2008)

Those seat belt retractors on the rear deck don't rattle like a *****? Those are always a problem.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Can't wait to hear this bad boy. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

What? said:


> Those seat belt retractors on the rear deck don't rattle like a *****? Those are always a problem.


I expected them to. They aren't fully supported, they just kind of dangle off the rear deck. But they don't make any noticeable noise. I have some ideas if they start to.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm trying to improve my tuning skills, which (to this point) haven't be very good, IMO.
And I've been getting a lot of good advice from several people. 

But I'm curious about something...

I'm running Illusion C3CX's in my stock dash locations. I previously had them running biamped through the included passive crossovers. But to simplify tuning somewhat, I put each side on one channel instead of 2 and crossed them over 350 and up at a 24/dB LW slope.

I took some measurements today. (Lenovo PC, M-Audio Mobile Pre and a calibrated ECM8000). I took some advice and stepped back down to 1/3 octave, with bars on the RTA. I figure if I can get it in the ball park (and understand the why and how) that I can move on later to finer resolution, if necessary.

Volume on my Pioneer 4100NEX (Sound retriever off, EQ flat, no crossovers engaged, Source level adjustment at 0) at 27 seems fine, but if I go to 30 or so, it seems like the tweeters get quieter. If I back it down to say 10, and wait a little and then turn it back up to 27 it seems fine for a while.

Anyway...

My levels are pretty close.

IMG_20170923_192410823 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

The mids seem to peak around 70dB according to REW.

IMG_20170923_192442396 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

And the low point of the tweeter seems to be around 47dB. 

So, should I be cutting 23dB out of the midrange to bring the levels closer to flat?
Seems like if I do that, I'm going to lose a LOT of overall volume and I'd need to boost the gains back up to make up for it.

I keep getting hung up on this...also, it doesn't seem that there should be such a huge difference between the mid and tweeter through a passive crossover that is supposed to be phase compensated as well.

Jay


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Though different car and speakers (Camry/Morel Virtus 4"), my mids mounted in similar position had to be cut 14db in the 500-800hz region to get the response somewhat evened out. Difference is my tweets are on-axis but still right next to the mid.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, I put a low shelf filter (IIRC, not on the computer I use for tuning) on it to cut about 12dB out of the midrange peak area. Made a huge difference in getting it close to flat.

I don't know if you're in Strictly Sound Quality on Facebook, but I started a thread there that has quickly turned into Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen. I've gotten good advice from several people, but a couple of people have contacted me privately and been very helpful. One of those people is running the same speakers on his front stage, the other has a car that is kind of my goal, tuningwise -- one I've actually heard IRL. I don't want to mention any names to avoid pissing off some of the other people in the thread who might be on here too.

I took a break the other night and read about notch and shelf filters and decided to try it, and it got me very close.

I'm reasonably sure at this point, that the mid peak is caused by the loading of the mid/tweeter off the windshield. Acts kind of like a horn, causing cabin gain. I know Pocket5s said he had a similar issue with his Scanspeak 10F's. And I've confirmed that that could be the case with some other people.

Right now I've only managed to get the left and right close (eq-wise/levels) on the C3CX's. It doesn't sound great, but I think now the midbasses and subs are out of proportion with the smaller speakers. So tomorrow I'm going to do the midbasses side to side, then do C3CX's to midbass transistion, then eq again and play with TA a little.

I'm waiting for an upload to Flickr and then I'll post before and after pics of the freq response.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Here's what I started with. 

IMG_20170924_211025707_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170924_211036257_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

On that scale it looks closer to a 13dB difference between the top of the peak, and low tweeter.

I applied the filter around 2k and got this:

IMG_20170924_213335616_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20170924_215148510 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

then I applied the EQ that REW suggested (as best I could.) In my thread on SSQ (FB) someone linked a video that showed I could reenter the center frequencies and then optimize the gains/q's again to conform to the graphic EQ on my processor.

These are my left/right C3CX's (without Jazzi's house curve shown). It looks like one side is about 3dB louder, so I am going to try to get the levels closer and the EQ closer between the two before I move on to the midbasses.

IMG_20170924_223424718_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Kinda where I'm at now...

Jay


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

JayinMI said:


> I'm reasonably sure at this point, that the mid peak is caused by the loading of the mid/tweeter off the windshield. Acts kind of like a horn, causing cabin gain. I know Pocket5s said he had a similar issue with his Scanspeak 10F's. And I've confirmed that that could be the case with some other people.
> 
> Jay


I'm not on facebook so no worries there 

I was thinking the same about the loading off the windshield/dash. I believe I have the same thing going on in my car. I feel even though the FR needs to be corrected, the loading makes for impressive impact during quick transient material more than if they were mounted elsewhere... though mine are crossed over lower around 200hz at 12db/octave currently.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, I started over today. Took some advice from Nick (Adams) who is running the same speakers and tried using the "Measure" function in REW.

Had some issues getting everything calibrated, I think there's a problem with the cable that I was running to the A/V in on my radio. I made a trip to the store and bought a new one and plugged it into the Aux port and it worked much better. Great, but killed a large portion of my available day.

I played with it for a while, but it shows more peaks and dips than I knew what to do with. So, (for the time being) I went back to using Pink Noise and the RTA function.

Switched to the "Half Whitledge curve," too.

Also, last week, I determined that I have a bad tweeter on my left C3CX. 
So, I grabbed some older Kenwood soft domes I had laying around and put them in for now. Hopefully gets me past Finals, anyways.

As for now, passives are out. Kenwood tweeters are in. 
Making progress at a slower rate than I'd like.

Jay


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I was able to get the mid-tweet to sound insanely good in my 6. I am using Audible Physics and its pretty much the best sound I've heard up front. Same setup I used on my Colorado, same excellent results. With my Helix processor/amp, I had to do zero work with the tweeter (other than gain), but from 6k down (where the mids play) to about 350hz, there's a lot of tweaks required on each but the end measurement is super-flat and clean. The woofers crossed from 75ish to 350hz, I found going higher there's a weak midrange effect, suspecting the center console against the doors because letting the mids cross lower and play that instead worked beautifully. 

Its the best-anchored front stage I've had, with those drivers in the dash like that. It definitely required some EQ work but REW and Helix put together (with the text export function) made it cake. Your IB setup is probably capable of playing higher than my reverse-fire low tuned ported setup, you should be in even better shape than I am in that dept.


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

for me tuning was quite a learning process and it took a lot of time. 

i'm still pretty terrible at it.

i'm amazed at the people who can sit down in a car and pinpoint what's wrong right away.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I think that is what makes it so frustrating for me.

I don't know how many times people have told me it should only take "a couple of hours." 

I spent about 5 hrs in my car this morning getting my mids and tweets to match up levelwise and freq response wise, then went to dinner.

Came back and spent about 2.5 hrs in the car working on my midbasses...
and couldn't figure out why making changes to the eq wasn't making a difference on the RTA...then I figured out why. I was working on my right midbass...and adjusting the left side. :cwm23:

Wish there was a group of people in this state who knew what they were doing to help out...like WCA, or NCSQ (the real one).

I'm a visual learner. 

Jay


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## Jlugo360 (Mar 6, 2017)

JayinMI said:


> I think that is what makes it so frustrating for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Samething here, i’m a visual learner as well and even with as much information as one can find on here I haven’t been able to wrap my head around it all, so no progress! It seems like everyone that has posted a video on how to tune has Helix DSP’s which seem a lot easier to work with than Mosconi (like in my case) at this point i have given up! I’m gonna have someone who knows what they’re doing get the eQ right for me, maybe i’ll have a chance to learn something in the process...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Same boat here. Just about everyone I know is using Helix, (tho theres some Alpine and Mosconi too) and it really is easier to use. I did a few at the last shop I worked at.

Jay


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Ok, hear me out. There is a guy on here that does remote tuning sessions. Sounds crazy right? It's not and works remarkably well. It requires you have a well sorted out install with good mounting and decent treatments and no major rattles or buzzing. It requires you have a mic, computer, rew and your dsp software and a decent ear. I spent a long time getting mine to sound decent on my own and thought it was probably about as good as I could expect. It was a third there after hearing the correct tune. It's really great to have a solid base tune that's well sorted to rely on then you can flavor a little here our there for taste. 

Let's be honest for most of us that's our capabilities, to fine tune. Get a pro to tackle the major tuning so you can enjoy your system instead of always being a work in progress



Jlugo360 said:


> Samething here, i’m a visual learner as well and even with as much information as one can find on here I haven’t been able to wrap my head around it all, so no progress! It seems like everyone that has posted a video on how to tune has Helix DSP’s which seem a lot easier to work with than Mosconi (like in my case) at this point i have given up! I’m gonna have someone who knows what they’re doing get the eQ right for me, maybe i’ll have a chance to learn something in the process...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Jlugo360 (Mar 6, 2017)

Agreed about enjoying the system instead of it being a work in progress which is how it’s been for me since i purchased the car brand new over 2 years ago I immediately started changing speakers and equipment on it being that it came with a very basic factory system that blows and now that i’m through with swapping equipment I just want to have it dialed in (to my liking) and be done with it! I did have it tuned before leaving Florida but changed the crossover settings more to my liking and messed up the eQ previously done in the process and now that i’m back in New England i didn’t know where to take it to, i got a couple of suggestions earlier on another thread for tuners near my area but i’m open minded to that remote tuning, i do have a mic and REW i just don’t know my way around it yet but who’s this guy that does the remote tuning?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Maybe you should come down to PA some time and have me take some time on it 


Will you be making the trek to Finals Jay?


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## Jlugo360 (Mar 6, 2017)

Where are you in PA?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> Maybe you should come down to PA some time and have me take some time on it
> 
> 
> Will you be making the trek to Finals Jay?


Yep. I'll be there. Was planning to compete.
Spent HOURS yesterday getting things matched up, but I had to cut a LOT to get things where they were supposed to be, and it didn't leave me much EQ to work with after. Got it matched, side to side and mid/tweet on each side to my Target curve, but I had to knock some stuff so much to get it in the ballpark that it sounds like a single tweeter in the middle of the dash.

Very frustrating.

Jay


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

Jlugo360 said:


> Agreed about enjoying the system instead of it being a work in progress which is how it’s been for me since i purchased the car brand new over 2 years ago I immediately started changing speakers and equipment on it being that it came with a very basic factory system that blows and now that i’m through with swapping equipment I just want to have it dialed in (to my liking) and be done with it! I did have it tuned before leaving Florida but changed the crossover settings more to my liking and messed up the eQ previously done in the process and now that i’m back in New England i didn’t know where to take it to, i got a couple of suggestions earlier on another thread for tuners near my area but i’m open minded to that remote tuning, i do have a mic and REW i just don’t know my way around it yet but who’s this guy that does the remote tuning?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


get a hold of Skiezer,,, he did my remote tune for me,,,,, really got me closer to the finish line,,,,


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Jlugo360 said:


> Where are you in PA?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I'm about 45 minutes west of Philadelphia. (Chester County)


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

JayinMI said:


> Yep. I'll be there. Was planning to compete.
> Spent HOURS yesterday getting things matched up, but I had to cut a LOT to get things where they were supposed to be, and it didn't leave me much EQ to work with after. Got it matched, side to side and mid/tweet on each side to my Target curve, but I had to knock some stuff so much to get it in the ballpark that it sounds like a single tweeter in the middle of the dash.
> 
> Very frustrating.
> ...



Try abandoning the measuring stuff for the next tuning session. Leave all EQ flat and listen to one side at a time. Adjust levels on each until the side sounds more natural from a level standpoint. Then do the same for the other side. Then play all of them and make more adjustments to level. 
Then do timing by ear. Start with the suggested delay using Erin's calculator and then adjust each pair of drivers by ear if needed to fine tune. Once that is good, then use a 31 band pink noise track set and go through each band one by one. adjust left vs right to center up each band, then when that is done, go throug each band again and try to get them to a similar audible output level. Knock down any hotter frequencies like this.

I'll bet you will have a more pleasing result than where you are at now.

Then if you want to you can measure and make adjustments for any peaks that may fall between the 31 band positions and listen again.


If all else fails...drive it over to my place


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks, Steve. I was planning to simplify, anyway. I left for work like 45 minutes early so I could set my gains and figured I could do some tuning tonight after work. Traffic and McDonalds delayed me getting to work, so I didn't have time and then got stuck at work 2 hrs late. 

I realize (now) that I could have made better use of my parametric bands to knock down the HUGE peaks, and I wouldn't have had to use so much graphic EQ. 

Every year before Finals, I always end up doing something right up until it's about time to leave. lol

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Try abandoning the measuring stuff for the next tuning session. Leave all EQ flat and listen to one side at a time. Adjust levels on each until the side sounds more natural from a level standpoint. Then do the same for the other side. Then play all of them and make more adjustments to level.
> Then do timing by ear. Start with the suggested delay using Erin's calculator and then adjust each pair of drivers by ear if needed to fine tune. Once that is good, then use a 31 band pink noise track set and go through each band one by one. adjust left vs right to center up each band, then when that is done, go throug each band again and try to get them to a similar audible output level. Knock down any hotter frequencies like this.
> 
> I'll bet you will have a more pleasing result than where you are at now.
> ...



That’s great advice I think.. Give it a shot Jay. My only suggestion I’d add is remember your ears will be shot after so much time with pink noise. Volume doesn’t need to be crazy, just enough for a discernible image and levels. But limit sessions to no more than 30minutes at a time maybe. Your ears will lie if they’re fatigued. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

JayinMI said:


> Came back and spent about 2.5 hrs in the car working on my midbasses...
> and couldn't figure out why making changes to the eq wasn't making a difference on the RTA...then I figured out why. I was working on my right midbass...and adjusting the left side. :cwm23:


I know that feeling, in my case though I was making all these changes and then realized I was working in Offline mode. Oops.



JayinMI said:


> Wish there was a group of people in this state who knew what they were doing to help out...like WCA, or NCSQ (the real one).


Have wondered the same thing for here in VA. I feel as though I can get pretty close, but that final 10% or so is the real difficult piece to get dialed in. 



Babs said:


> But limit sessions to no more than 30minutes at a time maybe. Your ears will lie if they’re fatigued.


100% agree with this, especially using pink noise at moderate volume levels and making small adjustments.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, I decided to start at the beginning with my gains. And noticed something odd.

I have 2 5 channel amps, one running each side of the car.
The outputs of my processor are between 3.8 and 3.9V, which is fine.
But channel 1 on my left amp was about 8V lower than channel 2, and on the right amp it was more like 5V higher.

So, I reconfigured some things and put the two tweeters on Ch 1 and 2 of the left amp, and the mids on Ch 1 and 2 of the right amp. 

This allowed me to get my gains set within about .2V. 

My center is pretty well located, with zero EQ. 

I think I'm on the right track...

Going to go out and spend a little while tuning before bed.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

That’s the approach I took with my 2 multichannel amps: put the same speaker types on the same amp channel group so the gains were the same. (Amp A ch1/2 tweeters, amp B ch 1/2 mids, Ch 3/4 both amps for bridged midbasses. Ch 5/6 both amps bridged to each sub voice coil)

Certainly makes setup and tuning a little easier.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I keep reading all these articles, and they make it sound so simple.
But when I get into the car, I have this huge dip at around 2k, like 27dB deep. 
If I cut everything else down to match it, I lose all my sub and midbass.
Then it just degenerates into frustration. 

And it doesn't line up with my crossover points AT ALL.


Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

If you can’t fill it, it’s a cabin cancellation, not much you can do about it.

Remove the grilled and see if it goes away? If you put the mic near the drivers, does the 2k null go away? Is there a massive peak at 1k?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

No, it starts rolling off at about 1k. It's centered around 2k or maybe 2.5k. On the tweeter side it seems to roll off (high pass like) at around 4k. There is a peak somewhere around 8k, but it's like 3 or maybe 6dB tops.

I'll try and post a screenshot later.

Jay


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

JayinMI said:


> I keep reading all these articles, and they make it sound so simple.
> But when I get into the car, I have this huge dip at around 2k, like 27dB deep.
> If I cut everything else down to match it, I lose all my sub and midbass.
> Then it just degenerates into frustration.
> ...





JayinMI said:


> No, it starts rolling off at about 1k. It's centered around 2k or maybe 2.5k. On the tweeter side it seems to roll off (high pass like) at around 4k. There is a peak somewhere around 8k, but it's like 3 or maybe 6dB tops.
> 
> I'll try and post a screenshot later.
> 
> Jay



Sounds like the same thing happening in my car. Dash mounted mids reflecting off windshield... reflection energy out of phase with direct energy causing null centered on a certain frequency depending on how far the mid is from the windsheild. Mines at 1.5khz. Tilting my mids towards cabin fixed it...Reducing the space between the cone and windshield moves the null higher out of the passband of my mid.

Camry dash mounted mid positioning results

Windsheild destructive reflection remedies

Here is where this was probably first discussed with formulas to figure where problems may show up with reflections:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070403224738/http://forum.elitecaraudio.com:80/showthread.php?threadid=96808&pagenumber=5


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I have dips at around 1k (900Hz), 2k and 6.3k. They're pretty significant.
One of the peaks is like 24db deep. 

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. So let's get caught up.

Go back a couple of weeks. 

Still trying to tune my system, and getting nowhere. Oh, it looked good on REW, but sounded horrible.
Kept falling back to my Preset 1. (Basically, T/A and Xovers set)

Planned to leave for Finals around 9am on Friday the 13th. 

Thursday, the 12th, late. Nick Apicella and I were talking about it and he suggested a remote tune.
So I downloaded Teamviewer at about midnight, and spent the next 3 hours watching Nick work his magic (and ***** about the Mosconi software/my slow internet lol) He got it much closer to the target curve than I had, but after 3 hours of listening to Pink Noise I couldn't tell if it sounded good or not. Decided to wait until the morning to see. Really appreciate it, Nick. Getting to see you in action showed me I had some things right and some things weren't. Also learned that stacking LR2 filters doesn't result in an LR4 filter. Something they should probably mention on the screen in the processor software.

Got up to leave at like 7 and had a headache. Went back to bed til 8. Got up. Headache turned into a full blown Migraine. Still got trunk carpet installed, everything packed and went back to bed. Left at 2pm. Sounded like there was a transistor radio playing on my dash. (Similar issue to what happened when I tuned it as well...more on this later) 6hr trip took 7.5hrs. Waze sent me through Indiana. I used Google Maps for the rest of the trip. I hate driving through Indiana. Got to the hotel around 9:30.

Since my stereo sounded bad, I reverted back to Preset 1 for the trip. Debated not entering the 2X event at Finals, but got talked in to it. I was going to do it just so I could park inside. Paid for membership and to enter "Meca Street class"...had to park outside because there were no spots left in the building. *sigh*
Spent about 10 minutes playing with the EQ on my radio and turned the subs up from -17.5dB to -12dB. 

Kyle Ragsdale judged my car on Saturday (he judged ALL of the cars for the 2X...40+!) 

IIRC, I was like 5th out of 5 in my class with a 70.25. I was hoping for better, but I expected more like a high 60s, so I was happy with that considering how much time I had in it.

Now, Nick and I had to attenuate my midbasses like 20dB to get the frequency response curve to match, but when you listened to it, there was literally NO midbass and barely any sub. I had the same problem. So I started thinking maybe there was a problem with my mic. Like maybe it was overly sensitive to the low end.
So I borrowed my friend Nick Adams' (Thanks!) mic and ran 3 pink noise "sweeps" with mine, then 3 with his (stereo, left and right), but they were very close, so no mic problem. 

So it seems that REW isn't "hearing" or interpreting the data correctly or something.

Jim Becker suggested I pick up TrueRTA and use that to see if it shows the same thing. Pretty sure I had that on my old tuning Netbook, but the login for the admin account is corrupt so I can't get to it. Looks like I get to buy it again.

Strangely, I attenuated the midbass maybe 9db on the radio, and got it decent, but Kyle said that 80-200 was missing. So, that really makes me think the -20dB we were doing is a bit much. lol

Going to play with it tomorrow.

Also, Nick Adams introduced me to some new music that I hadn't heard before.

Lake Street Dive was pretty cool.

Also, if you want to have nightmares, check out Tori Amos' Strange Little Girls. Her cover of I Don't Like Mondays, and '97 Bonnie and Clyde are ... intriguing. lol

Awards got over around 1am on Monday morning. Hung out til 2, got back to the hotel around 2:15ish, asleep by 3.

Got up and found out there was a Bojangles (which I've been meaning to try since the first NCSQ meet at Jason's house) about 15 minutes from my hotel. What Google neglected to mention was that it wasn't done being built yet. Guess when I found out? lol

Here's my score sheet: 

IMG_20171017_211002430 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

I wasn't sure what the comment was under "Midrange Frequencies". Looks like something about "Upper Range Big Broad Penis." It was suggested that
maybe it was a compliment, but I thought I should ask. Turned out it was a "Big Broad Peak." I guess that makes more sense. *sigh*

Anyway, those were the highlights of the trip. Got to listen to some really nice cars, tho, I missed Michael Meyer's Scion. I'll have to catch that one at some point.
Chefhow's car was very impressive. Spent about 2 hours talking to Jason Owens. Met Ben Zimmerman and Tom Meyers. 

It was a good time. Trip home took just over 6 hours.

Now I need to know when the shows are going to be so I can start planning!

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

it was good seeing you again, glad i could help.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks for the help. 

I think I'm going to pick up some Lake Street Dive.
Got a recommended CD, or do you just pick the songs up ala carte?

Also, what was that track with the trumpet/trombone/clarinet battle? That was pretty cool.

I went back to flat EQ on the radio, played with my delays, and that seemed to get things a little wider, deeper and on top of the dash...

Then I played Junior Wells "Use Me" (Turns out I *did* have it!) and whatever instrument is being played on the right side, the entire frequency band of it falls in the range of my midbasses. lol. That was most definitely NOT on top of the dash. 

Was good seeing you again, as well. Have a safe trip home. Enjoy the new tires.

Jay


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

the combination of slow internet and mosconi software is enough to drive a man insane


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm totally going to buy the soundtrack to Luke Cage, Season 1.
There's some really good stuff on here.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

lake street dive - fun machine and bad self portraits. i have pony via apple music but i don't like it.

won't you come home billy bailey (meca tantric tuning disc)


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Not a lot of changes. Skizer did some tuning work while I was at the show he hosted a few weeks ago, but it still needs some work. Stage is better, but tonality is crap. On the upside the issue I was having with the upper midrange dropping out seems to be fixed.

I'm in Kentucky at the moment for Finals, but I got a late start, caught tons of traffic and arrived late. It's raining, so I didn't get a chance to work on the tune. Again. 

Oh well.

Jay


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Oh thanks lol. Is the tonality issues from the thing where it was switching settings from one tune to the other?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> Oh thanks lol. Is the tonality issues from the thing where it was switching settings from one tune to the other?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


No, no, no. It wasn't anything you did, the work you did was definitely an improvement. Center is pretty stable (better than it's probably ever been).

Are you talking about the "Use T/A settings from Preset X" type stuff?

Here's what happened. Right before Nick worked his magic on the car, we updated the firmware and GUI on my 8to12 Aerospace (Nick's SECOND favorite processor, lol), Then while he was tuning, the upper midrange kept dropping out randomly.

When I got back to my house, I talked to Jacob Brown and he said when you do GUI updates, the older files may not be compatible with the new GUI and I need to reset the controller (RC-Mini -- which threw off the sub level settings somehow) and I had to take screenshots of all my settings and reenter them manually. I did that and that seems to have gotten rid of the upper midrange dropping out, but now it doesn't sound right.

Stage is pretty good for the amount of time we have into it, and using stock locations with a minimum of sound deadening. It goes (at best) from just outside the pillar to just outside pillar, and the center is slightly mobile (maybe left or right a few inches depending).

I didn't realize how bad the resonances in my door panels were (even after Nick pointed it out to me) until I spent a few hours dismantling a door and adding Sonic Barrier/Noiceo/ensolite/Tesa tape to it. Then it made the other side GLARINGLY obvious. Those are a LOT better now. Like a LOT. But I think my midbass needs a retune.

But right now, if I listen to music at a loud enough level to enjoy having 8" midbasses and 12" IB subs, my ears hurt. So, something is not right. lol

Be up soon to see what I can do about that before 8am.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

After talking to Nick Apicella this past weekend, I wanted to clarify my earlier post. I'm not knocking anything he did and I think he did a great job on my car (especially in the time he had invested in it). I didn't want it to sound like I was complaining about him at all. He did more in probably 1.5 hrs than I had the whole previous year.

And it gave Nick Adams a good basis to start from while he walked me through his process (and Omnimic use). He and I spent about 2ish hrs on Saturday tweaking things. By the time we were done, we had improved width, depth and tonality (which wasn't bad before, but it's better now.)

Then Mike Flanagan (sp?) judged it. Nick (Adams) had said he thought it would be a high 70's car as it sat. Apparently Mike agreed. lol

IMG_20181015_182006781_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

At the 2X last year, Kyle Ragsdale gave it a 70.25, so it's definitely better.

Then on Sunday, Nick Wingate (from Orca) took a listen and said it was better than last time he heard it, but there was a timing issue between the subs and midbass and told me how to fix it. We estimated some things, but playing with it (and using the process he told me) improved the sub bass placement. It's up front above the dash most of the time and it doesn't drag down or shift center as much (tho center still wanders a little). Sometimes, low bass notes aggravate a couple of panels and the resonances drag the image back. 

I've already decided to do some MLV/CCF so hopefully I get that done before the season gets rolling.

I was pretty happy with it, and even got 3rd in Modified Street (prior to the Wingate-inspired changes) at the 2X '19 Season Kickoff.

IMG_20181015_182117190 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

I plan to start working on a new tune (likely from scratch) with what I've learned over the weekend. Don't worry, I have the current one saved. lol


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Congrats Jay :thumbsup:
It sounded good to me at the NY Finals show... Glad it's coming along.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

After New York Finals is when Nick worked on the tune, then Nick #2 worked on it Saturday before judging and Nick #3 offered suggestions on Sunday after judging.

I have some tonality work to do, but the stage is WAY better.

I liked the overall sound before we all got into it, but the stage/image is much improved.

The biggest difference I made since then was spending 6hrs deadening my front doors. There is a lot more Noico 80mil and Sound Barrier deadener on the door skins as well as a fair amount of CCF. I didn't realize how bad the resonances were in the doors until I fixed ONE of them. lol. Now the front doors are pretty dead (door handle rattles some) and I hear the back doors, floor and pillars making noise. lol It never ends. MLV will be happening in the not to distant future. Probably some Hydrophobic foam, too. And more deadener...and...

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

sounded good. deaden the doors (or kicks). tweeters in the sails, dedicated 3" midrange.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I really don't want to tear into this car too bad. At least not yet. I want to see what I can do with what I already have (more or less) before I start making changes. I have decent stuff, and I know it can do better. If I hit a ceiling, then I'll look into changes.
I specifically got the C3CX's with the intent of being able to use them in sails.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

nadams5755 said:


> for me tuning was quite a learning process and it took a lot of time.
> 
> i'm still pretty terrible at it.
> 
> i'm amazed at the people who can sit down in a car and pinpoint what's wrong right away.


And a year later, you're the CA state champ, 3rd place in your class at Finals, and made huge improvements in my tune in about 2 hours after sitting down in my car and pinpointing what was wrong. lol

I really appreciate Nick helping me out. Somewhere along the line, as I get older, I just can't retain stuff I read as well as I used to. If I can see how something is done, I gain a grasp of it much faster. It's probably the flouride in the water, lol.

I readjusted the sub after actually measuring some things instead of estimating, per Nick Wingate. Then I did centering frequencies, and about 250Hz or so it was pretty good with what Nick Adams was able to do, so I adjusted them from 63-200. I had to cut/boost 200Hz quite a bit to get it about centered. I think it's related to the fact that the right midbass is more on axis, but it could also be a resonance or something to do with the center console.

I did what I could with it and got the rest of them centered up pretty well. It really improved overall focus, the center doesn't wander nearly as much (almost not at all), sub stays up front on the dash (unless I aggravate a resonance in the back then it drags back a little). I the past month, it's come a long way.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

You can do the same measurements at 200hz and figure out your next steps. Boosting can sound weird and you run the risk of clipping the dsp outputs. 

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5609293-post2.html


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## mzmtg (Dec 8, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> Also, if you want to have nightmares, check out Tori Amos' Strange Little Girls. Her cover of I Don't Like Mondays


Listening now on headphones...it's freaking me out.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, haven't touched it since Finals. Remote start season kinda kills my audio motivation for a couple of months. But I'm about to make some changes that 2 of the 3 Nick's will probably approve of. lol. 

I've had a recurring issue with my 8to12 Aerospace. When it gets below about 20 degrees F the T/A sounds all wonky, the midbasses don't play (or are VERY distorted if they DO play) and it just doesn't sound right. Once it gets to operating temp things return to normal. It really only does it (usually) 10 times a winter, so I've been dealing with it. But it's been colder than normal, and it did it 3 different times Friday. and 3 more times in the past week. I suspect a cold solder joint or a component not performing to spec. I can send it in to be fixed, but since it doesn't get that cold in CA, I expect I'd get a "NTF."

So I'm looking at a Helix DSP Pro Mk2 with a Director.

I also have an Illusion C3CX with a bad tweeter. It's been that way since new, and I threw some tweeters in to get by, but I need to get it fixed or replaced. I'm looking to buy a replacement, so I can send it in as well without downtime.

Other options I've considered are GB25's, ML700.3 and maybe some AP's.

Tweeters that have been suggested were Scans (which I really liked in Nick Adam's GTI).

I'd like to stay 3" or less so it doesn't take much room and I could potentially do on-axis pillars/sails. I might be able to get a Scan 10F in there.

Anyway, just an update of what I'm looking at before Jason's Spring meet.

Jay


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I’m really looking forward to my demo 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'll be keeping an eye on your parts swapping. As you change stuff out, keep me in mind for buying your old baffles. My current plan includes C8s and C3s for my wife's 6.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I don't plan to change the 8's in the doors. Essentially, I really just want a replacement C3CX, and change the processor. After that I'll probably send it off to be fixed, and it will either go up for sale, or end up in my truck.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> I’m really looking forward to my demo
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I was pretty happy with how it sounded at Finals. Hopefully I don't screw it up making the switch to Helix. lol 

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

You sure it’s the dsp? Done channel swapping and all that?

I don’t know if you got the c8w or the c8, but the full size illusion tweeter is pretty nice.

AP AR3-A and Scan r3004 combo is pretty popular out here and sounds quite nice.

The AF gb25+gb10 does nicely as well, I’d rather have more cone area if there’s space for it.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

nadams5755 said:


> You sure it’s the dsp? Done channel swapping and all that?


Yeah, I did some of that last year, and the symptoms point toward the processor. Otherwise I would have 2 bad amps, which isn't that likely. I could see one or the other, but now both.



nadams5755 said:


> I don’t know if you got the c8w or the c8, but the full size illusion tweeter is pretty nice.
> 
> AP AR3-A and Scan r3004 combo is pretty popular out here and sounds quite nice.
> 
> The AF gb25+gb10 does nicely as well, I’d rather have more cone area if there’s space for it.


I got the c8W's. They came in the same box as the component set, just no xover or tweeter. 

I saw one of your other posts somewhere, R tweeters for on axis, D series for off axis?

I've been impressed with the GB25, but I would prefer more cone area as well.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> I saw one of your other posts somewhere, R tweeters for on axis, D series for off axis?


Yes, scan ring radiator (R) tweeters are typically the better choice at or near on axis, while the dome (D) tweeters are the better choice if you are more off axis. You get better polar response from the dome than the ring. 



JayinMI said:


> I've been impressed with the GB25, but I would prefer more cone area as well.


The GB25 actually has more cone area and linear displacement than the Illusion C3 (Phase Plug). What I have found is that while there are plenty of 3" drivers with more cone area, very few have as much linear displacement (cone area x Xmax) as the GB25 due to its relatively high Xmax. The GB25 comes in at about 10.5 cm^3, where as most 3"-4" drivers that might fit (Illusion, Scanspeak, Seas, Wavecor) land somewhere in the 7.5 - 10 cm^3 range. That of course, doesn't take into account efficiency, frequency response or distortion.


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

ring radiators usually sacrifice off-axis response for on-axis extension. you can see it in the graphs when comparing an r3004 vs d3004 or a r2004 vs d2004.

the exception seems to be the r2004 but you lose some sensitivity and effortlessness compared to the 3004.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> I saw one of your other posts somewhere, R tweeters for on axis, D series for off axis?


With the Scans, it's really best to look at the models you're considering. Generally speaking, the ring radiators use the phase plug to lessen the effect of break up and spread/push that out to a higher frequency. This does two things to the frequency response:
1) Makes the FR flatter because there's not the series of typical breakup nodes (peaks/dips). This, in turn, causes the off-axis response to also behave more predictably.
2) The effect of the above can cause the appearance that the FR is rolling off earlier than a typical dome; but the real reason the dome appears to have further off-axis extension is because of the breakup adding an extra bump(s) in response lower in frequency which also shows up off-axis. So, for example, a breakup on a dome at 8khz on-axis would also show up as a bump in response at 8khz off-axis; and then you'd get the expected sharp roll-off. A RR will do the same but it may do it at 15khz and the breakup may be less severe. 

Really, it all comes down to application. Beaming matters as much for a tweeter as it does a midrange or a woofer. A 1" (effective diameter; half-surround to half-surround) dome or RR tweeter is going to beam around 6750hz. The scan R3004 vs the D3004 are closer to 1.5" and they enter beaming in the 4-5khz region. The specific reason I chose the little Dayton nd10 to pair with the GB25 was because of its size; being about 5/8 inch, it didn't beam until closer to 10khz and kept really, really nice polars. It was about as Omni-directional a tweeter as I could buy. And since the GB25 could extend a bit higher than a 3-4" mid, I could low-pass it high enough to keep the nd10 tweeters from having to cross too low (they don't like being crossed much below 5khz). I had enough volume output for myself - for the most part - and enough for anyone else who wanted to demo. IOW, for a typical car audio system, it got loud enough. And heck, for $10/each, if you blow an nd10 you can just drop another in its place. 





JayinMI said:


> I've been impressed with the GB25, but I would prefer more cone area as well.


As you know, I'm a fan of the GB25. And as Dustin pointed out, it has plenty of xmax (and power handling) to provide the output most would need. Unless you're crossing it below 300hz _and_ listening _very_ loudly I wouldn't worry about cone area. Cone area really only dictates the extremes; driven by Fs on the low end and diameter on the high end. Sensitivity is what matters between those extremes. 


Just my $0.02.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

rton20s said:


> Yes, scan ring radiator (R) tweeters are typically the better choice at or near on axis, while the dome (D) tweeters are the better choice if you are more off axis. You get better polar response from the dome than the ring.
> 
> 
> 
> The GB25 actually has more cone area and linear displacement than the Illusion C3 (Phase Plug). What I have found is that while there are plenty of 3" drivers with more cone area, very few have as much linear displacement (cone area x Xmax) as the GB25 due to its relatively high Xmax. The GB25 comes in at about 10.5 cm^3, where as most 3"-4" drivers that might fit (Illusion, Scanspeak, Seas, Wavecor) land somewhere in the 7.5 - 10 cm^3 range. That of course, doesn't take into account efficiency, frequency response or distortion.


Good point. I've heard GB25's in a couple of cars and have been impressed. I usually only get to hear Erin's car once or twice a year, and before finals the last times had been when he had the KEF's and after he switched to the GB25's. While I can't say for sure, I seem to remember being a) impressed and b) the difference wasn't as drastic as I would have expected. If I didn't know he'd switched, I might not have noticed at all. But it was like a year apart. I heard his car at Finals (2018) and it got plenty loud for me.



ErinH said:


> With the Scans, it's really best to look at the models you're considering. Generally speaking, the ring radiators use the phase plug to lessen the effect of break up and spread/push that out to a higher frequency. This does two things to the frequency response:
> 1) Makes the FR flatter because there's not the series of typical breakup nodes (peaks/dips). This, in turn, causes the off-axis response to also behave more predictably.
> 2) The effect of the above can cause the appearance that the FR is rolling off earlier than a typical dome; but the real reason the dome appears to have further off-axis extension is because of the breakup adding an extra bump(s) in response lower in frequency which also shows up off-axis. So, for example, a breakup on a dome at 8khz on-axis would also show up as a bump in response at 8khz off-axis; and then you'd get the expected sharp roll-off. A RR will do the same but it may do it at 15khz and the breakup may be less severe.
> 
> ...


I think as it sits right now (I'd have to plug in my laptop to be 100%) the C3CX's are crossed slightly below 300. I had them in the 315 or 350 range, but IIRC Nick suggested we go down to 2.5x the FS.

Your $0.02 is worth more than $10 from many people I get suggestions from. lol 

Something to think about. I have some time before I NEED to start doing anything. 

Your setup with the small tweeter makes a lot of sense to me.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Do you happen to know the formula for determining frequency at which beaming occurs? (I'll Google it, but if I can't find it...)


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Speed of sound divided by diameter of driver divided by 2. 

So for a 1” driver, roughly:[ (13500 in/s) / (1 in) / (2) ]

The driver diameter should be measured from half-surround to half-surround but for getting a ballpark value you can just use the nominal diameter if you don’t know for sure.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

If you follow me on IG, you might now I did a thing.



With the potential for a few more things to follow.

After getting it and reading about it, and reading Sound Tuning Magazine (Audiotec Fischer's accompaniment to their DSP) it makes me wish I'd have just bought this in the first place. So much more intuitive, and better documentation.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, I started looking in to it, and (as it turns out) a friend of mine is an AF dealer. So, as long as I can keep him on task, I should have GB25/GB10's on the way soon.

Jay


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> So, I started looking in to it, and (as it turns out) a friend of mine is an AF dealer. So, as long as I can keep him on task, I should have GB25/GB10's on the way soon.
> 
> Jay


Save the adapter rings for the C3s for me.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

rton20s said:


> Save the adapter rings for the C3s for me.


They're all yours. My GB25/GB10s are at my friend's "shop," so I should have them this week.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Received my AF speakers. Yay. Can't wait to get them installed.

But I had a squeaking/rattling noise coming from the back of the car and it was driving me nuts. Short trip, I know. lol

Turns out the passenger side mount for my amp rack tore the metal (on the car.) So, I welded that up. (no pics, but they were pretty ugly. Welding 22ga metal, upside down isn't that easy.)

And made new mounting points for the amp rack that bolt through the actual rear deck, and used fender washers so I won't have issues in the future.

Waiting to see if I can have our tinter tint my back window before I put everything back together. Hopefully tomorrow, but the book looks pretty full. Maybe if we get a no show.

Last week I made the plates to put the GB 25's in the dash, and realized that 14ga Knu Konceptz speaker wire won't fit in them.

I played with aiming the tweeters so I can start my sail panel pods. 

Not a big update, but it's something.

Jay


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Jay what’s is your Instagram account?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

@jay.mcgraw

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Pigtail them with some 16awg I think will fit the frogs. 

You welded that gash upside down. Officially my hero. That’s a skill I always had big respect for and wanted to learn. 


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, I attached metal to metal with melted metal. "Welding" might be a stretch. lol. It isn't making the noise it was making before, and seems like it will hold together. 

I mounted the rack through the rear deck this time, and I can move the whole car with it.

Jay


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Impressive job on the IB wall! I'm looking forward to meeting you at Jasons in May... hopefully the line will be short to demo your car


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Hi Jay,

Awesome build. As I prepare to build my own IB sub baffle I’ve been referencing your thread a lot and it’s been as enormous help. 

I’ve got a few questions if you don’t mind..



JayinMI said:


> IMG_20170823_184342178 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr Jay


What did you use to cut these three pieces of MDF. I know you made a template out of 1/4, so I was thinking you traced them with a router but I noticed the edges are angled. 

Also, is each piece uniquely sized? Or are they all the same?









JayinMI said:


> IMG_20170904_093105637 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr Jay


What material did you use to block the speaker (and other) openings in the rear deck (other than CLD)?




Thanks again for posting. This build (and others like it) are a huge resource for all us rookies out there


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

mumbles said:


> Impressive job on the IB wall! I'm looking forward to meeting you at Jasons in May... hopefully the line will be short to demo your car


It usually is. lol.



Chris12 said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> Awesome build. As I prepare to build my own IB sub baffle I’ve been referencing your thread a lot and it’s been as enormous help.
> 
> ...


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, I had pulled all the stuff out of the trunk, fixed the ripped metal and modified the amp rack. I finally got everything back in.

I made plates to install my new Audiofrog GB25's, and started building my sail panel pods for my GB10's.

Today was slow at work, and I got the speakers mounted to the plates and had them sitting on my toolbox. I was working on a check out for another store in a dirty Impala with a broken door handle. I was frustrated, and tossed my screwdriver on the box, and it took a funny bounce. And, of course, punctured one of my GB25's. Didn't even make it into the car.

IMG_20190408_124412172 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Andy is out of stock until next month.

On the up side, the tweeter pods are turning out pretty well.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

that sucks.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> Today was slow at work, and I got the speakers mounted to the plates and had them sitting on my toolbox. I was working on a check out for another store in a dirty Impala with a broken door handle. I was frustrated, and tossed my screwdriver on the box, and it took a funny bounce. And, of course, punctured one of my GB25's. Didn't even make it into the car.
> 
> IMG_20190408_124412172 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

That was pretty much my reaction when I saw where the screwdriver was headed! 

Jay


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

A dab of epoxy, ShoeGoo, or something wouldn't repair it?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I thought about that. Andy said to superglue it, to hold me over until he had more in stock. But I might just stick with my C3CX (as mid only) until after Jason's meet.

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Noooooooooooooo!!! 


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

JayinMI said:


> So, I had pulled all the stuff out of the trunk, fixed the ripped metal and modified the amp rack. I finally got everything back in.
> 
> I made plates to install my new Audiofrog GB25's, and started building my sail panel pods for my GB10's.
> 
> ...


Ouch!

If I had a nickel for every time I've done something like that I wouldn't be rich but I'd definitely have a piggy bank full.

On a happier note, I have a set of GB25s that have no particular mission at the moment that'd I'd be happy to lend until your replacement gets in. Just cover shipping and you're set.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

And that's why I love this hobby. 

Now if only the weather and work would cooperate, I could finish getting things installed.
Won't be "finished" but should have everything installed where it's going to go.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Mids/tweets are in, tweets are wired up. Want to thank Dan again for the loaner GB25. I need some break in time, tuning time, and detailing time. As well as possibly new tires (at least 2) and I only have 2 days off to get things straight before I leave. As well as having to finish a big job I'm working on now.

I'll be so happy to have all this behind me. lol

So many things have gone sideways trying to get ready for the meet. 

But whatever. I need a break.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK. Got everything in and playing. Spent about 6 hours in the car familiarizing myself with the Helix. The new(er) Set EQ/Auto Set feature is pretty cool. I used it to get me in the ballpark, and then I'll fine tune with REW if I get a chance.

For using some randomly chosen crossover points (Sub LP 60, MB 80-350, GB25's 350-2500 and GB10's 2500-20k) It sounds pretty good. Center is more stable than it has been, stage is wider with the GB 10's in the sails, doesn't seem to pull down with male vocals (tho it didn't do that much, anyway). Sub needs a little work to get it up front, but I got it respectable for how long I have into it.

Very impressed with the Audiofrog stuff. 

GF is taking it tomorrow to get the new front tires (I was down to about 1/8" tread...not a good idea before a 700mile trip. lol) 

Pretty excited.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK, so I didn't get as much done before the GTG as I wanted, but that's every time I go to a long distance show or GTG. Since I have to work outside on my days off, the weather didn't cooperate. 

But all in all, it wasn't too bad. 

So, before the GTG, I managed to:

remove/revise/repair my amp rack/rear deck.
Install my Helix DSP Pro Mk2
Install my Director Create
Build sail panels and install my GB10's
Damage one of my GB25's
Install GB25s
Replace front tires
Replace front left brake caliper
Replace Pads/Rotors (EBC Greenstuff pads, EBC slotted rotors) front.

Here's some pics:

Sail panels

IMG_20190405_201349746 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190405_204058613 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190410_144315740 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190421_161020756 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190429_132048703 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190429_132037949_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

I basically used the GB10 hardware, a small piece of ABS as a base, and built it up mostly with 3M Duramix, and a little filler. I actually plan to build another set, but it's low priority since these look ok. 

Jay


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## Mlarson67 (Jan 9, 2015)

They look more than ok.... they look awesome!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I didn't get this part "finished" but at least it held the Director in place.

My plan is to paint it black, relocate the power socket to the right side of the shifter in the panel and use Neo magnets to hold it in place. For now, it's just a pressure fit.

IMG_20190428_122226258_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190428_125855072 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190428_155739548_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190428_204003199 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

It's made from 1/4" acrylic.

And because, in the days leading up to the GTG, I didn't feel I had enough stress (trying to get car ready, BIG job at work, etc.) I was unusually motivated to work on my project truck. lol

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Here's some pics from the trip...

Let's start with the thunderstorm/hail I experienced in W. Va. omn the way down. The rain was so heavy everyone pulled off or stopped, because we couldn't see in front of us. Then the 3/4" hail started falling. I sat there fuming for probably 2-3 minutes before filming, and then (of course) it started to let up. This is a video, but it shoots you over to Flickr to watch it.

VID_20190503_143048535 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Besides Jason's GTG's, the other reason I come to North Carolina is for Bojangles. The one in Asheboro really knows how to ice a Boberry biscuit. lol

IMG_20190506_094930057 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

(That's icing, folks, not gravy. The girl said she had an "incident" with the icing bottle -- the top fell off -- and asked if that was OK before giving it to me. I was like "It's fine." I had no idea. lol)

I didn't take a lot of pics, but I got Sleeves' R32 drivetrain-swapped New Beetle convertible and Jason (1Finalinstall)'s dad's truck.

IMG_20190504_114904781 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_114852511 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_114857818 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_114916258 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_162302197 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_162312794 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_162258124 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_162355677 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190504_125358493_HDR by Jay McGraw, on Flickr


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

For those of you who don't know, I have an '89 S-10 SCSB, that I'm putting a 6.0L V8 into. The third (!) cab I bought for the project looked very solid, except for the driver's side floor (common issue here) but wasn't nearly as solid as I'd hoped.

This resulted in removing the bottom driver's door hinge, a pillar, rocker panel, inner rocker panel, fender well area of the firewall and floor. After overthinking it for like a year, I finally got motivated to work on it, while trying to complete a $10k+ dollar custom, job at work, getting my car ready for the GTG, etc. So, it's back together (except the floor) and I can move it out of the garage if needed. Before I had a piece tacked to the corner of the cab to hold it in place, since the bottom of the cab was mostly gone.

IMG_20180509_181104894 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20180509_181414923 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20180603_164604360 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20180603_164604360 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

All that was left of the inner structure:

IMG_20180606_185201537 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Anyway...I made new inner pieces, and got it all back together (except floor) before I left.

IMG_20180603_181304485 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190327_143109570 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

IMG_20190327_170201446 by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in since it was kinda related to getting ready for the GTG. lol

Jay


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

you sure that's icing on that boberry? lmao


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Now that you mention it, it was a little salty. But I thought (hoped?) that was the biscuit. lol Don't worry, I didn't eat it all. haha


Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Mlarson67 said:


> They look more than ok.... they look awesome!



Thanks. I cracked one of them putting the tweeter in, but a little thin CA glue fixed it. I want to paint them a flatter black, so a little body work and paint and they'll be fine. I'm not worried about them structurally, and nobody would ever notice if I didn't point it out, but it bothered me, and I think I want to do the shape a little differently.

Bose301s (Richard) saw them and liked them as well. I've been running around like a chicken with my head cut off since before the meet, and slightly less so since I came back, I have a ton of projects going right now. Hopefully I get some free time soon, so I can make him a set. (Or maybe swap him these for some new GB10 hardware, his stock plastic sail panels and shipping. lol)

Jay


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

I wish I'd had the opportunity to listen to your system at Jasons, maybe next time...


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Your small part fab skills are strong Sir. Those tweeter pods look great!


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Nice work. If I ever own another sedan (unlikely as it is) I still wanna try IB.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Chaos,

Yeah, I'm not normally a fan of things with too many doors, but it's hard to find cars I really like in a 2 door nowadays. Especially if I want something that offers a manual trans. I looked at a GTI before this, but I wanted manual trans with push to start and leather, which meant I needed to get it with a higher package, thus pricing it out of my range. Also, at the time, they had just killed the 2 door.

I bought this car in April of 17, with just under 35000 miles on it.
I will hit 120k this week. I've considered finishing my truck as a daily, and possibly rwd/v8 swapping it after it's paid off.

There's one in China with a Lexus V8 swap that's RWD. You can find a video of it doing burnouts.

Jay


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> Chaos,
> 
> Yeah, I'm not normally a fan of things with too many doors, but it's hard to find cars I really like in a 2 door nowadays. Especially if I want something that offers a manual trans. I looked at a GTI before this, but I wanted manual trans with push to start and leather, which meant I needed to get it with a higher package, thus pricing it out of my range. Also, at the time, they had just killed the 2 door.
> 
> ...


I think every single Mazda 6 owner has watched that video multiple times.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'd love to find out what rear he used and what was involved.
I'm wondering if something like an AWD CX-9 rear would work.
Since the car has a normal trans tunnel, there should be room for the driveshaft. Probably just dreaming, but if I could get a 4.8 or 5.3 with maybe 280hp that got 20+ mpg, I'd be pretty happy.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, I headed down to SVR end of July, but didn't compete. Entry fees with money round were $340ish. Wish I had known I could get an easy 15 points just for showing up and entering. That got me thinking, and now I'm cramming to qualify for Finals.

I drove to Nick's show Mid August and picked up 18 points for my 3rd place finish. I had 6 points from the kickoff event at Finals. At Nick's show I had a 3 judge average of 75. (Richard Papasin, Anthony Davis and Mike Flanagan)...on a tune I did in Target's parking lot before the show. No one was what I would call "harsh," and all had similar comments which gave me a basis for improvement.

So, Saturday night I got home from work at 6, went to dinner and got back home around 8:30, revised the tune until about 12:15 and got to sleep a little after 1am. Got up at 5:30 am and got on the road at about 6:15. Got to the Team 614 show in Columbus, OH at about 10:30. I was the only guy in my class, with John Hrbek being the only other SQ/Install competitor there. But I did get an 82. 

I didn't know the judge, but he was younger, and I assume I wouldn't have gotten an 82 from a more experienced judge, but I got another 10 points and that's what matters.

On the upside, he gave me a little feedback and it is definitely improved from Nick's show.

I am at 34 points, now, and have my 4x requirement under my belt and have shows lined up the next 3 weekends, so I should have no problem qualifying now.

I plan to try to make small improvements until Finals and see how I do...but I see some of the other people in my class, and it's intimidating. lol

If I can consistently score near the high 70's with an occasional 80 or so, I'd be pretty happy.

Jay


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

i'm about 70% gonna go. if you need some extra ears, let me know


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Probably take you up on that. I don't plan on making any equipment/major install changes before Finals, but I wouldn't mind some more feedback.

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Alright...here's the recap of my season. lol

2019 Kickoff event...3rd Place...6 points (76.25 IIRC)
Apicella Autosound 4x...3rd place. 18 points. (3 Judge average of 75)
8/25 Auto Image and Spa show. 1st place (only one in my class, lol) 82. 10 pts.
9/1 B's Car Audio show.....1st place, 83, SQ BOS. 10 pts.
9/7 Horizon Audio show....2nd place (of 2...lost to Mick Shuck, from what Geoff said, by about 1/2 point. lol) 8 pts.

Points total: 52. So, I should be qualified for Finals now.

Jay


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## audiophile25 (Oct 5, 2008)

JayinMI said:


> Alright...here's the recap of my season. lol
> 
> 2019 Kickoff event...3rd Place...6 points (76.25 IIRC)
> Apicella Autosound 4x...3rd place. 18 points. (3 Judge average of 75)
> ...


That is a pretty solid season! I would love to get a demo of your vehicle.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

audiophile25 said:


> That is a pretty solid season! I would love to get a demo of your vehicle.


I'll be at Finals. I should have entered at SVR, but didn't think I'd do well...(plus it was $$$!) Also didn't realize the minimum 15 point thing until after, as well. So, last minute, I decided to try to qualify. Honestly, the 82/83 scores are a little high. The judge who gave them to me, seems to run about 5 points high. I'd say the car is a mid-high 70's car, consistently.

Jay


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

You gotta let me jump in and get a demo this year since I didn’t get to last year.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

You bet. But I'll expect feedback. lol

Jay


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

I want a listen also. I've got a 2018 6 Signature and have two AE SBP12-8As that I have not installed yet and want to take a listen to a set of them to hear what they sound like. I plan on being there on Saturday.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I have the IB12AU-4's, and from everyone I have talked to the SPB's are a step up. But I've been very happy with my IB12's, especially for the price.

I'll be there both days. (Unless I get a new job...then I might not be able to make it.)

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

ErinH said:


> You gotta let me jump in and get a demo this year since I didn’t get to last year.


Or this year. lol
But you always have a million things going on at Finals.

It's better than it was yesterday, now. lol

Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, I just wanted to publicly thank Nick Adams and Yacdiel Ruiz for feedback and help with getting my tonality in the ball park at Finals. Brian Lowrie, Scott Babcock, and the judging staff also Grace, Richard, Mike who judged it. My 3 judge average was 76.75.

If you heard it in NY at Nick's show, it was much better (IMO).

Nick Adams had said we could start over with a tune on Friday, but I didn't want to have to start from scratch, so Friday morning, I got up, verified my gain settings, used time alignment measurements I got earlier in the week when I ripped the door panels off to go right to the speakers. Then I did some parametric EQ to get in the ballpark hoping Nick would have to do a lot. About 5 minutes in he suggested I start with the tune I'd been using to compete. lol.

Didn't make the podium (There were 11 in the class and among all the classes there were several 80+ cars). 

Congrats to Mick Schuck for getting 2nd (or 1st if you concede that Kirk Proffitt was going to get 1st, lol) and I think he also got Ohio state champ.

Good time. Going to take a break and get back to it later.

Also, Erin's car is fantastic! Steve Cook did a phenomenal job on it. Sounded very good.

Jay


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Jay it was great to get to demo and hang out with you again. Man your car is really nice. Enjoyed the heck out of seeing how improved you’re getting. Gives me a fire again to get my car done and get to work on it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> Or this year. lol
> But you always have a million things going on at Finals.
> 
> It's better than it was yesterday, now. lol
> ...


Yea. I'm usually running around demoing, helping or catching up. Lots of people and lots of places to be at these events. Still, a great time. Hopefully I catch you again soon, though.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Babs said:


> Jay it was great to get to demo and hang out with you again. Man your car is really nice. Enjoyed the heck out of seeing how improved you’re getting. Gives me a fire again to get my car done and get to work on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I appreciated the feedback. What was the name of the group/woman who you said played on your factory floor. I can't remember for the life of me.



ErinH said:


> Yea. I'm usually running around demoing, helping or catching up. Lots of people and lots of places to be at these events. Still, a great time. Hopefully I catch you again soon, though.


Yeah, I'm more about talking to people I only get to see a couple of times a year, the demos are secondary. I'll catch up to you at Jason's or maybe Al's, and drag you into my car. lol



Jay


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

OK, Richard posted the results like Monday, but I just saw the thumbnail and didn't realize it was a link to the spreadsheet. So, I went back and saw the results...I took 7th in Mod Street behind Marsha Beeler. I had a 3 judge average of 76.75. 

After I got home, I ate lunch and hopped back in the car and made some changes.

The week before Finals, I pulled door panels and grills so I could measure distances for T/A. Since the tune I worked on needed a lot of work, Nick (Adams) suggested we start with the tune I had been using this season...which we did. After I got home, I swapped the T/A settings into the tune from Finals (since the tonality was much better than the basic ballpark tune from Friday morning) and did some centering tones, and found I had some harshness in the 1000-1600 range, and in the 6300-8000 range. I toned them down a bit and that seemed to help. 6300-8k helped get rid of some sibilance, and 1000-1600 seemed to help with some honkiness in the horns.

If I had known there was a schedule on Saturday, and that I wasn't being judged until Sunday morning, I would have spent more time on it. Oh well, next year.

Nick told me Saturday night that he might have to make some changes because temperature/air density might effect his tune, I was skeptical...I figured it was one of those things that I'd never be able to notice...but I could. It was a more drastic change than I ever would have expected. He said it changed pretty drastically in about an hour.

My first judge said my center was locked in, I got a 4.5 out of 5. The next 2 judges gave me 3.75 out of 5 and said it pulled the the right. All of the judging on my car took place over maybe 1.5 hrs. Live and learn. 

I'm certainly going to start earlier next season.


Overall, I'm pretty happy with the season. 

Jay


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

I walked by your car twice on Saturday afternoon and saw you listening and perhaps making some adjustments so I did not bother you. I've got a 2018 6 and I wanted to talk to you about how you did your install. I've read all this thread and got a pretty good idea of what you did, but seeing and talking in person gives a better perspective. 

Changes in temperature and humidity can affect the sound, so Nick is correct about that.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

cmusic said:


> I walked by your car twice on Saturday afternoon and saw you listening and perhaps making some adjustments so I did not bother you. I've got a 2018 6 and I wanted to talk to you about how you did your install. I've read all this thread and got a pretty good idea of what you did, but seeing and talking in person gives a better perspective.
> 
> Changes in temperature and humidity can affect the sound, so Nick is correct about that.


Sorry about that. I think into the early afternoon Nick and I were working on it, but after that I was all over the place. I tried to spend a fair amount of time near the car on Sat, but after I got judged on Saturday I was demoing cars. I have a phone interface for my car, so maybe I'll have to ad a control from the alarm and I can let people demo it remotely. lol

I think I need to find a way to give my number to people before events that might want to hear it, then they can text me for demos if I'm not with the car. 

I don't disagree about the humidity and temps can make an effect, I just didn't think it would be as drastic as it was. I figured it was one of those things that the hardcore guys believed they could hear, and that it was a minor thing. I was wrong.

My first score was a 78.75, then I got a 75.25 and a 76.25. Could be judging, could be weather. sigh.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

cmusic said:


> I've got a 2018 6 and I wanted to talk to you about how you did your install. I've read all this thread and got a pretty good idea of what you did, but seeing and talking in person gives a better perspective.


Shoot me a PM and I'll try to answer any questions you might have.
Is yours the new Turbo 284ish horsepower one?

Jay


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> I appreciated the feedback. What was the name of the group/woman who you said played on your factory floor. I can't remember for the life of me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Me too please! (Well, that sounded weird, like, it would be the three of us in there......um, no........)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So, yesterday when I got home my GF handed me a manila envelope that came in the mail from Tennessee. Apparently I got an award for being the only competitor in Mod Street from Michigan. lol. I didn't know, or I could have grabbed it when I was at Finals. Ooops.

Untitled by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Jay


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)




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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

That's kinda how it feels. lol


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

BigAl205 said:


>




Again.....I love how you see the world! 


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, a few months ago, I traded my tweeter pods for factory GB10 mounting hardware (that, now, I probably won't even use) and haven't gotten around to making new ones yet. I had them velcroed to the sail panels, but I need to remedy that. Hopefully that will start up again soon. Need to do that so I can start collecting points toward Finals.

But, since I drive a lot (100k+ miles in 2.5 years on the Mazda) I decided to pick up a new daily. Found a pretty solid '99 Neon coupe (my fourth) for $550.

Untitled by Jay McGraw, on Flickr



I'm trying to get the drivetrain squared away so I can drive it more, but right now it's maybe a couple day a week thing. But I've been buying a lot of maintenance parts for it, and working on it, so it's been taking away from time to build tweeter pods and work on my tune.

Untitled by Jay McGraw, on Flickr

Hoping to get back on to the Mazda in the next couple of weeks.

Jay


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

@JayinMI I know this is an old post and don't know if you're still around but if so do you have any pictures of your trunk baffle install completed? Thanks


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