# My friends told me that car audio is a waste of money



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I don't know a single person today who is into car audio. Each and everyone of them are fully happy with the stock systems that came with their cars. Everything from civics, to Audis, to VW, to SUVs to trucks. They asked me why I would spend money on speakers, head units, amps, when every car today already has a radio with a USB jack and at least 4 speakers and you can just play music from your phone and stream to your car speakers with the USB cord. They tell me what putting that money towards home audio is much wiser. But for me, I am almost never home and I don't have much interest in home audio. However, portable audio yes. But home audio, I couldn't care less about. The days of spending thousands of dollars on high end home stereos is way past my lifestyle. I'd much rather put the money in the car, as I get much more use out of it.

Every single person I know does this. They plug in their phone and stream their music from their phone and many of them have some pretty high end home sound systems.

But I think car audio is still well worth it. Yes, the gear does't retain value very well over time, so you do take a huge hit when it comes to reselling. But it's the experience that car audio gives, that makes it worth the cost.

If you lease your cars or get in a new car every 1-2-3 years, then it's not worth it. But for someone like me who keeps and holds onto their cars until they die or fall apart, then it's well worth it. There really isn't a better feeling in the world, than cruising in your car with really good sound quality. Listening to your favourite tunes in terrible or subpar sound quality really deteriates your cruise IMO. 

Car audio is expensive yes, but its a long term investment IMO. And for the many years of enjoyment that we get out of it, it's well worth it. Especially for those like I, who drive a lot and already spend a lot of time in my car.


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Fortunately it's your money, and they can be jealous when they get in your car.


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## Aldaa (Feb 25, 2015)

I agree that car audio is worth it. For me, it hasn't been that expensive and I've been happy with the stuff I've bought, even though I know there's better. It doesn't personally bother me that there are better systems out there, etc. I don't need to achieve that quality; just enough to put a huge smile on my face. There are few things better than cruising around with an incredible portable stereo to me. Plus, since most of my friends live 200+ miles away, I can bring good sound to them. 

Most newer cars with stock systems are "okay". The ones I've heard just aren't punchy enough, don't have proper imaging in either front seat, and don't extend low enough. For most people, they're good enough, but I doubt they've heard what a legitimate good system sounds like, or they just don't care that much.

My 2nd oldest brother once questioned the amount of money I spent on my stuff until we took an hour long ride through the country. He finally understood why it was so important to me.

I think most people would catch on or at least "get it" once they've been in a car for about an album's length with a proper system.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Continued.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard some of the stock stereos that come in newer cars these days and there are some pretty decent ones. But I have yet to come across one that I could live with, for the 7, 8 years of me owning that car. Unfortunately, these great sounding stock systems are usually always in high end, top of the line luxury models. So you still end up paying for it, as it's factored into the cost of the car.

With my stock radio, when I first got my car in April 2015, I thought it sounded pretty good but it was still obviously a huge drop from what I had in the old car. I said to myself, that i would just live with the stock system and not mod anything. Well, that didn't last long lol. 

I really needed BT in my car (and I'm not going to tinker with BT earpieces or BT clip on visor speakers), I wanted the real deal, so I got a double din. A good quality and well featured double din is expensive yes (versus a single din) , but Ive wanted one for years and I could never go back to a single din. Double din user for life. 

then obviously, once I put in the Pioneer double din, it was just too much for the stock speakers and I wanted more. I wanted to get some power out of this head unit, but you ain't gonna do that with stock speakers. So then I upgraded my speakers to Type R's. 

And now, as we speak, I'm having a Pioneer 5ch put in  This one was the toughest for me to swallow, because of the cost but I just decided yesterday that you only live once, I will be having the car for at least another 6 years, and to just do it and get it over with. Once I hear the tunes after, the cost will be long forgotten.

Because over the past year (since I put the head unit and Type R's in), Ive been trying to tell myself over and over that this was good enough. But it wasn't. Couldn't stand when the 17RMS per ch were pushed and the Type R's put out super screechy really harsh to the ears highs.

So I think once this 5ch amp install is done, it will be a game changer. Because I look past to each and every one of my past car audio mods (present car and previous), and if I could go back in time, I would do it all over again. There are some things that I would have done differently (cause I do believe you get what you pay for when it comes to car audio gear), but at the end of the day, I don't regret spending the money that I did.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> I don't know a single person today who is into car audio. Each and everyone of them are fully happy with the stock systems that came with their cars. Everything from civics, to Audis, to VW, to SUVs to trucks. They asked me why I would spend money on speakers, head units, amps, when every car today already has a radio with a USB jack and at least 4 speakers and you can just play music from your phone and stream to your car speakers with the USB cord. They tell me what putting that money towards home audio is much wiser. But for me, I am almost never home and I don't have much interest in home audio. However, portable audio yes. But home audio, I couldn't care less about. The days of spending thousands of dollars on high end home stereos is way past my lifestyle. I'd much rather put the money in the car, as I get much more use out of it.
> 
> Every single person I know does this. They plug in their phone and stream their music from their phone and many of them have some pretty high end home sound systems.
> 
> ...



This could end up being a long thread but I would imagine many will not bother to reply because a lot of what they have said in the past about this subject matter has already been said many times over.

From my point of view to boil it down simply...
I hold on to my car until it dies. I buy used cars because for me spending money on a new car isn't worth it. I refuse to join the millions of Americans already in dept for a car payment. You have to find what you like and go with it, a used car be willing to fix it - but most likely that's a learning experience and its fun so you are ok with it.

The new cars that have been out since around 2000 have finally caught up to the quality of an aftermarket head units. 

There will always be the old school advocates that grew up in the dawn of the quality car audio scene that prefer an 1998 Eclipse Amp to a Class D RF made today. They will spend the money they need to retain this type of quality sound.

Of course don't ever spend any money on something you can't afford -- but it is only a wast of money until you decide it is. Everyone has an iPod or a iPhone and they may be content with it in a stock audio system but many would argue that they really don't know what they are missing. Apple is not a company that specializes in audio. The iPod is not a professional audio unit. Pioneer, Alpine, Eclipse probably are three major brands that are the closest to it.

I am constantly looking for that sweet spot in my car audio system. I pull my HU out of the dash about 6 times a year changing something or re-wiring this or that. I tried to promise myself that every time I put it all back together that it will be the last time I do it - but that failed so I gave up but I am fine with it. I like to toy with it.


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## Drop11 (Jul 4, 2016)

It isn't worth it. It never really will be. But, my truck is the only place I listen to music as being on the road is the only time I have to do so so I spend money to make it sound good.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

It's my hobby and if someone does not like it, tells me it is not worth it or any other reason, who cares? I enjoy it and enjoy meeting the people who also enjoy it


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## firebirdude (Dec 24, 2009)

the727kid said:


> Fortunately it's your money, and they can be jealous when they get in your car.


Pretty much sums it up.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Aldaa said:


> I agree that car audio is worth it. For me, it hasn't been that expensive and I've been happy with the stuff I've bought, even though I know there's better. It doesn't personally bother me that there are better systems out there, etc. I don't need to achieve that quality; just enough to put a huge smile on my face. There are few things better than cruising around with an incredible portable stereo to me. Plus, since most of my friends live 200+ miles away, I can bring good sound to them.
> 
> Most newer cars with stock systems are "okay". The ones I've heard just aren't punchy enough, don't have proper imaging in either front seat, and don't extend low enough. For most people, they're good enough, but I doubt they've heard what a legitimate good system sounds like, or they just don't care that much.
> 
> ...


I guess you could say I'm a bit of an audiophile. Not quite one, but I do love great sound quality, alot better than the average person out there. This goes for my portable audio whether its a BT speaker, or my earphones, to car audio. I may not be into home audio as in a 2.1 system, but I do love my lossless audio when it comes to movies. Watch a movie on a cheap HT and then watch it again on a decent HT and it's a whole new experience. I see this with car audio as well. It gives you an experience like what a HT does for movies. 

I would never spend thousands on a full fledged HT though. Not my thing anymore. Have a set of high end Sony HT headphones that I got on clearance for a smokin hot deal of $200. But once you experience great sound quality, you wont ever settle for anything less.

The thing with stock systems these days, is that they lack dynamic range. Even with some decent EQs in some of them, they either sound too muddy or flat. And then of course, they lack the power. So if you want that extra low end, past the 40hz range, you won't ever get that in any stock system (even ones with stock subs).


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## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

It pays off especially when I'm stuck in traffic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## firebirdude (Dec 24, 2009)

I listen to music in my car 1000X times as often as home. I'm trapped when I'm in the car. At home, I have **** to do. Yep. That means very little TV also. The only people who just sit in their living room listening to music for hours are 70 year old wine drinkers. The rest of the world has too many other more rewarding activities to do.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Trust me 2 screaming 5 years olds - my car is my listening room - no dad my sister bit me or my sister punched me crap.. Just peace and quiet - money can't buy peace and quiet! Probably why my system is so expensive...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

firebirdude said:


> I listen to music in my car 1000X times as often as home. I'm trapped when I'm in the car. At home, I have **** to do. Yep. That means very little TV also. The only people who just sit in their living room listening to music for hours are 70 year old wine drinkers. The rest of the world has too many other more rewarding activities to do.


Well actually, I would say majority of people today just sit at home all day, all weekend doing nothing but play video games and watch netflix and Dr. Phil. You would be surprised just how many people spend their entire free time and summers sitting at home all day. I've never understood how anyone could do this. I hate being at home. I lose my mind. And to be at home in the summers? No chance. Society today have hit it's ultimate low in terms of how lazy people have become.

All my neighbours on my street do this. They come home from work everyday and just watch TV all night. And rinse and repeat for the weekends. The kids play video games for 48 hours straight. They don't even get out of the house to get excerisze or fresh air.

I don't even have a TV, and don't want one because I don't watch TV. I know many people who have 5, 6, 7 + TVs in their house and they're all on just about 24/7. Life is too short and interesting to be a couch potato.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

If I had any friends that thought it was ok to criticize my hobbies, I would not have that sort of person as a friend, or value there judgement.




Mayosandwich said:


> I don't know a single person today who is into car audio. Each and everyone of them are fully happy with the stock systems that came with their cars. Everything from civics, to Audis, to VW, to SUVs to trucks. They asked me why I would spend money on speakers, head units, amps, when every car today already has a radio with a USB jack and at least 4 speakers and you can just play music from your phone and stream to your car speakers with the USB cord. They tell me what putting that money towards home audio is much wiser. But for me, I am almost never home and I don't have much interest in home audio. However, portable audio yes. But home audio, I couldn't care less about. The days of spending thousands of dollars on high end home stereos is way past my lifestyle. I'd much rather put the money in the car, as I get much more use out of it.
> 
> Every single person I know does this. They plug in their phone and stream their music from their phone and many of them have some pretty high end home sound systems.
> 
> ...


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## mrnix (Mar 2, 2009)

Tell your friends that going out to a restaurant is a waste of money. you can go to a grocery store and make food at home.
Tell them that going to college is a waste of money, you can learn just as much from books at the library.
Tell your friends that buying clothes from anywhere other than goodwill is a waste of money, you can get stuff there to wear.
Tell your friends that cable tv / netflix / hulu / etc are a waste of money, you can watch free tv with an antenna.

some things we pay for because they are worth it to us, and not to someone else. Some experiences and luxuries are worth it to the consumer, while some aren't. This is pretty much the definition of "to each their own"


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

This is a good example of someone I would not want to have as a friend. Knocking people because they don't share the same activities/hobbies as you.

This person is delusional, as he believes he is better than his neighbors because he does not watch TV, and IHO, they watch too much.





Mayosandwich said:


> Well actually, I would say majority of people today just sit at home all day, all weekend doing nothing but play video games and watch netflix and Dr. Phil. You would be surprised just how many people spend their entire free time and summers sitting at home all day. I've never understood how anyone could do this. I hate being at home. I lose my mind. And to be at home in the summers? No chance. Society today have hit it's ultimate low in terms of how lazy people have become.
> 
> All my neighbours on my street do this. They come home from work everyday and just watch TV all night. And rinse and repeat for the weekends. The kids play video games for 48 hours straight. They don't even get out of the house to get excerisze or fresh air.
> 
> I don't even have a TV, and don't want one because I don't watch TV. I know many people who have 5, 6, 7 + TVs in their house and they're all on just about 24/7. Life is too short and interesting to be a couch potato.


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## imdyinhere (Jun 12, 2015)

Car audio will never be a waste of money if it is what you like. Like a few mentioned here, as long as your keeping the car for a period of time and you spend a lot of time in it, that imo makes it worth it.

Also, my wife, who is a notoriously hater of all things loud, told me that my car stereo sounded awesome compared to the Bose in her car, I knew I was on the right track. I smiled all the way to our destination.


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

Drop11 said:


> It isn't worth it. It never really will be. But, my truck is the only place I listen to music as being on the road is the only time I have to do so so I spend money to make it sound good.


agreed.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

CrossFired said:


> This is a good example of someone I would not want to have as a friend. Knocking people because they don't share the same activities/hobbies as you.
> 
> This person is delusional, as he believes he is better than his neighbors because he does not watch TV, and IHO, they watch too much.


I think you just conjured up the idea that he believes his is better than people who watch tv all day. He is stating his opinion and his reaction to those who don't get out on a weekend. He said nothing of himself being better. How do you figure that?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

imdyinhere said:


> Car audio will never be a waste of money if it is what you like. Like a few mentioned here, as long as your keeping the car for a period of time and you spend a lot of time in it, that imo makes it worth it.
> 
> Also, my wife, who is a notoriously hater of all things loud, told me that my car stereo sounded awesome compared to the Bose in her car, I knew I was on the right track. I smiled all the way to our destination.


Smart girl!


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Of course it's a waste of money!! I still have parts sitting in boxes that I haven't installed!!! I want to hear not look at it!!
... but whoever that has the most items in the Classified section is already the winner lol


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

Sounds to me like you need new friends. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life. I'm kidding.


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## Frijoles24 (Apr 19, 2010)

didn't read the rest of the posts, but I do know 99% of the people can not hear a difference between the sound. 
when I had this talk with my friend, I gave him an example of sound bit where there is an obvious difference in sound. I gave him a bit that was mono, and the other was in stereo. He couldn't tell the difference. I gave him one where the freq range ended at 6k, and the other was full range. 128bit vs 320bit. nothing. after the blind test, I gave him the visual differences. he says he sees that it should be different, but it sounds exactly the same. 

for me, I was a violinist, playing solos and with full orchestras all my life. bragging time! I was concert master for Pasadena youth syphony orchestra, and principle second violin for Coulburn school of performing arts, also scholarship the one undergrad program I auditioned for as a music major [didn't end up going there, I wanted to swim instead]. so I have trained my ears to listen for errors in my violin vs the people sitting around me at the same time listening for the other instruments playing. and now ill be a pretentious prick, I have a hard time listening to any other system not tuned myself. 


and really, who cares what everybody else says. we have our hobby as audio enthusiasts, and they have their tmz.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

movingzachb said:


> I think you just conjured up the idea that he believes his is better than people who watch tv all day. He is stating his opinion and his reaction to those who don't get out on a weekend. He said nothing of himself being better. How do you figure that?


Just how I read into it.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I get the same thing. Most people listen to mine and have a "WTF I want this" look on their face. When they ask for details they glaze over. I basically tell them it's very intimidating but pretty simple...just labor intensive if you do it yourself.

The real trick is playing a song that they can get into. As soon as they hear it...you'll know it by their body language.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

It`s priceless to mess with audio buffs, I do that all the time.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

jackk said:


> It pays off especially when I'm stuck in traffic.


This right here. Traffic here can be incredibly frustrating - especially in the Winter. But beyond that, I just dig it. When I think of all the hours of enjoyment I get from my truck, it's quite the bargain. And it keeps me happy and calm when all the schmucks around me are chomping at the bit - fighting for the next foot of roadway.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

As stated- the OP spends time in the car and appreciates the value of high end audio in a mobile platform, as do I.

If anyone is ridiculing that choice, they are either assimilated into the MP3 and earbuds collective, or they simply don't have the funds to do it in a vehicle. (Let's be honest... Who wouldn't want awesome sound in a car, and rather try to cut you down because you've invested in such?)

Haters gonna hate...


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## Kenneth M (Oct 14, 2014)

The money is irrelevant. It's just a catalyst to the distraction. And we either form ties to people with the same distractions, or people who experience(d) the same things that make us want distractions. And if others don't meet either criteria, then we can't relate, ad nauseam. 

Once you see it for what it is, it's easier to be less flippant and see the hypocritical humor. What's profoundly sad is that the vast majority of the people I know fall into this exact trap.


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

I was banging on pots and pans at 2. Of course I couldn't drive yet and my PPI amps hadn't yet been conceived but I was working up to it! 

Mom sent me to piano lessons at 11. I played by ear and didn't learn a thing. I still hardly use instructions, though I will pour over technical things when it is needed.

Next came drums, acoustic guitar, electric guitar and much later bass guitar (followed up by a full PA system that technically I didn't really need)

Nowadays my car audio hobby has turned into a small amount of side work which helps me pay for other dreams and hobbies, such as travelling with my wife. When I travel I get to keep my eye out for local stereo's in action. I heard a single 10 while on a mountain road in Jamaica.

So coming full circle, it is not a waste of money at all. In fact with enough love for it, it will bring things to you.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Sine Swept said:


> I heard a single 10 while on a mountain road in Jamaica.


That's probably the most frightened I've ever been...riding in route taxis flying around St. Ann's Parish mountain roads at breakneck speeds...8 pairs of 6x9s scattered all around the car distorting that _new reggae_ so badly I wanted to jam knives into both ears. Glad I lived through that. I don't think rally car drivers have the balls (or is it stupids?) those guys have :laugh:. I got in the habit of having a few drinks before getting in those things.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

This is the nature of all hobbies, nothing wrong with anyone who is into or not into a pastime........our hobby is not as popular as it once was, so there is less interest. Crying foul because a hobby is of no interest to your friends is pretty weak, like the golf guys at work calling me ignorant when I glaze over and shake my head at the ammount of dough they drop on their gear, I'm simply not a golfer. If your not into something, be it sports related, with all its branches, or hobby related, there's no way anyone can covince you that such a silly (in your mind) pursuit is worth it. This is individuality, and without it the world would be a much worse place.......

I mean how silly would it be to you to hear folks discussing dropping thousands on nation wide travel for poker tourneys, or sailboats, or photographic pursuits.......the spending is necessary for the individuals love of that pursuit. To each their own, no justification needed.


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## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

^saved me some typing, and said it much better than I would have.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

claydo said:


> This is the nature of all hobbies, nothing wrong with anyone who is into or not into a pastime........our hobby is not as popular as it once was, so there is less interest. Crying foul because a hobby is of no interest to your friends is pretty weak, like the golf guys at work calling me ignorant when I glaze over and shake my head at the ammount of dough they drop on their gear, I'm simply not a golfer. If your not into something, be it sports related, with all its branches, or hobby related, there's no way anyone can covince you that such a silly (in your mind) pursuit is worth it. This is individuality, and without it the world would be a much worse place.......
> 
> I mean how silly would it be to you to hear folks discussing dropping thousands on nation wide travel for poker tourneys, or sailboats, or photographic pursuits.......the spending is necessary for the individuals love of that pursuit. To each their own, no justification needed.


yup. kinda like how i hear the "why spend 5000 on a huge bulky video camera setup when you can just get a gopro". people are into different things, and people are ignorant to things theyre not into. dont let anyone tell you car audio as a whole is not worth it when you can in theory just settle for the factory system


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

^ spends a lot on car audio - seems like a happy guy


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Sine Swept said:


> ^ spends a lot on car audio - seems like a happy guy


false. its a vicious and miserable cycle this hobby :laugh:


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> false. its a vicious and miserable cycle this hobby


That's why I'm still all stock for the last year. Not motivated to build something I think I'll only be marginally happy with. And don't want to spend the money to have a pro do it either.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

It's not a "waste" if you enjoy it, but financially it's one of those hobbies that is no better than just letting your money blow out the window as you drive down the interstate. It's justified if you go into it knowing that you are not going to get much, if any, money back on the old gear when (not if) you upgrade to newer stuff.

The type of car audio enthusiast that installs a system in a used car and drives it the rest of its life doesn't exist! If you're into car audio, you're going to be constantly upgrading the system - don't fool yourselves!!


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

I also enjoy buy and sell too! A miserable cycle was had by all.


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

hurrication said:


> It's not a "waste" if you enjoy it, but financially it's one of those hobbies that is no better than just letting your money blow out the window as you drive down the interstate. It's justified if you go into it knowing that you are not going to get much, if any, money back on the old gear when (not if) you upgrade to newer stuff.
> 
> The type of car audio enthusiast that installs a system in a used car and drives it the rest of its life doesn't exist! If you're into car audio, you're going to be constantly upgrading the system - don't fool yourselves!!


yep.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Whoa, a lot of you guys are missing the whole point here.......the payout is not an investment hoping for return of funds on ownership turnover, in this hobby that would be a ludicrous endevour. The return is the time spent enjoying your gear, or rather the music reproduced with it.


I am lucky in the fact that I believe most decent gear has potential way beyond what most extract from it......before moving on. I love futzing with my stereo, but constant upgrading is not in my dna. I will invest in aspects of my stereo, only when I feel I've reached the maximum performance of a said piece of gear. Don't believe me? I've given demos to folks younger than some of my amps.....lol. The upgrade addiction is seen as a shortcut to better performance, that without the ability to extract it, will never be realized.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

hurrication said:


> It's not a "waste" if you enjoy it, but financially it's one of those hobbies that is no better than just letting your money blow out the window as you drive down the interstate. It's justified if you go into it knowing that you are not going to get much, if any, money back on the old gear when (not if) you upgrade to newer stuff.
> 
> The type of car audio enthusiast that installs a system in a used car and drives it the rest of its life doesn't exist! If you're into car audio, you're going to be constantly upgrading the system - don't fool yourselves!!


Depends. For me, car audio is a one and done thing. Pay the initial expense and as long as it works and Im happy, then I keep using it until it breaks or I no longer want it.

I just see no point in upgrading speakers, amps, etc. HU's I can see worth upgrading though.

So its a big initial cost for me, but spread that over a 5 or 6 year span and the cost doesn't look nearly as bad. 

For instance, Ive spent 2K CDN on mine now (sorry, I factor in install costs, as it should be included). Over 6 years that is only $350 a year. $350 a year to enjoy the sound system is well worth it. Many people spend that much in a month on just coffee.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I find that if you are into car audio, chances are you are into portable audio, HT audio as well, as you are an audio head as sound quality is important to you, no matter if its in the car, in your home, ears etc.

I fall in this category. I pay good money for good earphones, headphones, etc...and the same for car audio because I see value in it. Sure you don't need to spend $200 on headphones when you can buy $40 ones. But often the $200 ones will give you an experience that the $40 ones cant. And once you experience really high end sound quality, its pretty difficult to go back and settle for less.

The friends that I know who aren't into car audio and just stream their music from their phones through USB or bluetooth, are also happy with their free apple earbuds that came with their iphones (even though they sound like crap), and they are fine with their TV speakers for watching movies. See what Im getting at here?

So there is a trend. Some people just don't care about sound quality. As long as they can hear what's needed, thats all that matters.


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## MB2008LTZ (Oct 13, 2012)

I have spent 20+ years investing in my mode of transport audio systems and they improve greatly every time thanks to this site....that being said, I have some decent home audio equipment that I use mostly for movies......I would love to build the ultimate home system but my ride is my sanctuary...the one place I spend daily, if only for a short time that I can truly enjoy the fruits of my labor...so for me it is not a waste....it is therapy...bought and paid for......


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## Drop11 (Jul 4, 2016)

Frijoles24 said:


> didn't read the rest of the posts, but I do know 99% of the people can not hear a difference between the sound.
> when I had this talk with my friend, I gave him an example of sound bit where there is an obvious difference in sound. I gave him a bit that was mono, and the other was in stereo. He couldn't tell the difference. I gave him one where the freq range ended at 6k, and the other was full range. 128bit vs 320bit. nothing. after the blind test, I gave him the visual differences. he says he sees that it should be different, but it sounds exactly the same.
> 
> for me, I was a violinist, playing solos and with full orchestras all my life. bragging time! I was concert master for Pasadena youth syphony orchestra, and principle second violin for Coulburn school of performing arts, also scholarship the one undergrad program I auditioned for as a music major [didn't end up going there, I wanted to swim instead]. so I have trained my ears to listen for errors in my violin vs the people sitting around me at the same time listening for the other instruments playing. and now ill be a pretentious prick, I have a hard time listening to any other system not tuned myself.
> ...


 I feel your pain. I was hooking up car audio speakers in my bedroom when I was 11. I'm 41 now. I dj'ed for about 25 years. Played around with bass guitar for a few years. Made and mastered electronic music for decades. I have cd's I've listen to thousands upon thousands of times. I've been know to leave a mix cd in for months at a time. Especially when I was leaning to mix music. I listen to other artist until I knew every time a knob was touched during a mix or a volume fader adjusted. Getting that intimate with music was both a blessing and a curse. I enjoyed it a lot more before I truly understood it. Now I have a tendency to listen to the production instead of the artist playing the track. It's extremely hard for me to turn off that analytical listening mode and it takes something really special in a system for me to not do it. 
Those years of dJing I truly believe did me wrong. I hear timing to a level that is unreal. Phase is the same way. Things have to be literally perfect or I catch myself pushing on my shifter in my truck trying to nudge the sound back into time. 
I drive myself crazy.


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## Drop11 (Jul 4, 2016)

claydo said:


> Whoa, a lot of you guys are missing the whole point here.......the payout is not an investment hoping for return of funds on ownership turnover, in this hobby that would be a ludicrous endevour. The return is the time spent enjoying your gear, or rather the music reproduced with it.
> 
> 
> I am lucky in the fact that I believe most decent gear has potential way beyond what most extract from it......before moving on. I love futzing with my stereo, but constant upgrading is not in my dna. I will invest in aspects of my stereo, only when I feel I've reached the maximum performance of a said piece of gear. Don't believe me? I've given demos to folks younger than some of my amps.....lol. The upgrade addiction is seen as a shortcut to better performance, that without the ability to extract it, will never be realized.


Unfortunately the better we get at squeezing every little drop the faster we realize limitations. Listening to music feels good. But I must admit buying new stuff feels just as good!


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## alcatraz5768 (Jul 25, 2016)

If you guys think car audio is expensive and labour intensive, try rebuilding and competitively racing a 35' sailboat. This stuff is a fun sideline. Still fun though.


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

Hobby, desire, passion. Call it what you will. I love music and we all know that music can enhance our mood, share in our pain, ease our pain, tune out the world around us. When you have a really kickass set up, we become justified in our endeavor.

Most of you would say I was crazy if I told you how much I spent on R/C Planes and Helicopters.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Ha! You guys have many expensive hobbies too!!!


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

diy.phil said:


> Ha! You guys have many expensive hobbies too!!!


No Doubt, dropped 8K on a top of the line chopper ended up at the bottom of a lake in Lancaster county PA. Car audio may be more addictive but certainly less risky.


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## beginner (Jul 4, 2016)

I find trying to explain my money pits to people just confuses them, nowadays I just tell them I am 'an enthusiast', and they seem to understand. I guess most people are enthusiasts in one area or another, they're probably over on the cheese making forums or something having a similar conversation.


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## nhtunes (Jul 31, 2016)

Do this hobby for yourself. Trying to "impress" others is futile. Most people don't care or can't hear the difference and would be just as happy with a crappy AM radio as long as they hear the vocals. 

I can't justify the expense of my system, but damn, it sounds awesome! So I am happy--there, justified!


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## caraudiopimps (May 4, 2016)

Mayosandwich said:


> I don't know a single person today who is into car audio. Each and everyone of them are fully happy with the stock systems that came with their cars. Everything from civics, to Audis, to VW, to SUVs to trucks. They asked me why I would spend money on speakers, head units, amps, when every car today already has a radio with a USB jack and at least 4 speakers and you can just play music from your phone and stream to your car speakers with the USB cord. They tell me what putting that money towards home audio is much wiser. But for me, I am almost never home and I don't have much interest in home audio. However, portable audio yes. But home audio, I couldn't care less about. The days of spending thousands of dollars on high end home stereos is way past my lifestyle. I'd much rather put the money in the car, as I get much more use out of it.
> 
> Every single person I know does this. They plug in their phone and stream their music from their phone and many of them have some pretty high end home sound systems.
> 
> ...


...you can take your products with you when you sell the car these days... (Except deadener, that'd be a *****) just save your factory equipment, the radio is plug and play, the speakers are too if you use harnesses or run new wires, and you can literally just unplug the amp. The bulk of the product can very easily be retained.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

caraudiopimps said:


> ...you can take your products with you when you sell the car these days... (Except deadener, that'd be a *****) just save your factory equipment, the radio is plug and play, the speakers are too if you use harnesses or run new wires, and you can literally just unplug the amp. The bulk of the product can very easily be retained.


Thats true but that's IF the gear lasts til then. Amps last what an average of 5-7years these days? Either a component inside dies or it just dies from age.

Speakers can last forever but chances are most people wont rip out their speakers to put into their next car because good chance the new car won't use the same size speaker, plus with people like myself who have 2 doors, installing and removing the rears is a major PITA. I know when I had my new car speakers put in, I threw the OEM ones in the trash.

Amp and sub, yes I agree, can keep and carry over to the new car. 

Subs I think can last forever as well. They can last as long as speakers and will definitely outlast amps.

For my car now, I bought a new amp, HU and speakers, but I was able to retains my sub from the old car. Feels good.


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## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

claydo said:


> The return is the time spent enjoying your gear, or rather the music reproduced with it.
> 
> 
> I am lucky in the fact that I believe most decent gear has potential way beyond what most extract from it......before moving on. I love futzing with my stereo, but constant upgrading is not in my dna. I will invest in aspects of my stereo, only when I feel I've reached the maximum performance of a said piece of gear. Don't believe me? I've given demos to folks younger than some of my amps.....lol. The upgrade addiction is seen as a shortcut to better performance, that without the ability to extract it, will never be realized.



^ same here, explains why I spent 3 years tuning the system, which is the same system moved from my previous 2 cars, same system in a different car - added a dsp this time and all the fun begins again!



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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

diy.phil said:


> Of course it's a waste of money!! I still have parts sitting in boxes that I haven't installed!!! I want to look at it and hope to hear it!!
> ... but whoever that has the most items in the *CLOSET* is already the winner lol



Corrected!


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Lots of good points have been made here that I agree with. I find that when asked why I invest time or money into car audio the best way to get someone to at least understand my reasoning is to address it as a hobby first and also a stress reliever. A great car stereo can really brighten up the drive home. 

I also approach my car audio a lot like Claydo does in that I don't swap equipment very often and would rather work to see how good I can make a particular set of equipment perform together. And while one could spend a lot of money on this hobby, I choose cheaper gear for a couple of reasons. The first is certainly budget related but its also fun to see what can be achieved through different install techniques and design. I think that reiterates the hobby aspect of car audio. It can be as rewarding working on it as it is listening to it.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

evo9 said:


> Corrected!


Ha ha yeah I've gotta be dumping some of mine too!! 
Did some wood/MDF cutting earlier today... i had to re-do a top cover.... that's one tiny step closer to booting it up!!


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## Pariah Zero (Mar 23, 2016)

MoparMike said:


> A great car stereo can really brighten up the drive home.



+this. Where I live, there must be a prize for being the first to stop at a red light.

A great car audio system keeps me from getting, um, "anxious" as other drivers attempt to kill me.

I agree with the OP's friends to a point: home audio is the better experience. I have an amazing home system. But here's the rub: I rarely get to use it.

If want to enjoy music, the only time available to me is during my commute. It's not ideal — how can it be with a 65 dB noise floor, loads of glass reflecting sound, and the occasional high-five with Death as he brushes past? 

When life gives you lemons, make lemonades.











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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Here's to those who think about money pits lol


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## Pariah Zero (Mar 23, 2016)

Coppertone said:


> Here's to those who think about money pits lol



Looks like somebody finally went too far with their turbocharger. It was only a matter of time.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

My money pit machine has an appointment tomorrow for a makeover  This one is definitely another waste too!!


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## KillaX (Aug 3, 2016)

I can understand those who claim its 'stupid' because it takes up space and gives you no trunk room ( depending on your build ) but often that stuff is removable for such situations. From my experience, its usually people claiming "My kickers sound great" And just have a really bad ear for telling the difference in quality, and when showned ( by putting the cars literally side by side and hoping between ) its them not caring because its "good enough for me" and still see it stupid people like me put >3K into a car for audio.

Its a preference really, Rather had clear-sound audio, and clear sounding sub. Not hear sub-coils kick, distortion, and muffled audio. Plus, its all insured...I was surprised when my insurance company said its <$10 a year to cover everything I own..so long as it's secured, if someone rear-ends my car or totals it, they pay me for all brand new stuff.

Some of my friends just shove 2KW subs in, stock speakers, and call it good. Wanting to be loud, with their distortion xD


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I've only had my new 5ch amp in my car for 6 days now and I tell you, it puts a smile on my face each time I get in my car. And then I look forward to the next time getting in and turning on the car. It's taken my experience and time in my car to a whole new level. It's just so satisfying. It's a feeling that home audio and portable audio can't give you.

I had this exact same feeling in my old car, and that sound system wasn't near as good as the one now.

Yes 5ch setups are pricey, but I don't think I could ever go back to listening off the HU's amp. If anything, I wish I didn't wait 14 months before putting in a 5ch. I missed out on the 5ch amp goodness for 14 months. Going from 17RMS to 75RMS brought these Type R's to life.

No more ear ringing harsh highs from the HU maxing out at 17RMS/ch. That was my biggest gripe.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

KillaX said:


> I can understand those who claim its 'stupid' because it takes up space and gives you no trunk room ( depending on your build ) but often that stuff is removable for such situations. From my experience, its usually people claiming "My kickers sound great" And just have a really bad ear for telling the difference in quality, and when showned ( by putting the cars literally side by side and hoping between ) its them not caring because its "good enough for me" and still see it stupid people like me put >3K into a car for audio.
> 
> Its a preference really, Rather had clear-sound audio, and clear sounding sub. Not hear sub-coils kick, distortion, and muffled audio. Plus, its all insured...I was surprised when my insurance company said its <$10 a year to cover everything I own..so long as it's secured, if someone rear-ends my car or totals it, they pay me for all brand new stuff.
> 
> Some of my friends just shove 2KW subs in, stock speakers, and call it good. Wanting to be loud, with their distortion xD


I have a pretty good ear, I can usually almost tell from a distance outside the car if that car driving by with loud tunes has a cheap garbage setup or a decent one.

I like to keep the bass within the car. I've just never been a fan of sending earth shattering bass waves for the entire neighbourhood to feel.

95% of the times I hear sub coils kicking, blown subs, overdriven speakers and more trunk rattles than you could ever imagine. And then these people driving always act like they have a badass system lol. It sounds like crap from outside the car, I could only imagine how much worse it sounds from inside.

I dont know how so many people find distorted speakers and over driven subs appealing to the ears. It's like watching a movie and your speakers are over driven and the sub is blown. How is that even enjoyable? It totally ruins the movie and it does the same for music.

I can handle the occasional rattle, but a noticable rattle on every bass note totally makes your setup look like a walmart setup. You can have 3K put in the car, but if it rattles to the moon and back and it isn't fine tuned, then I would be embarassed to even have anyone in my car to demo the stereo for them.


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## KillaX (Aug 3, 2016)

Mayosandwich said:


> It's taken my experience and time in my car to a whole new level. It's just so satisfying. It's a feeling that home audio and portable audio can't give you.


Can 100% agree to this. Not too crazy about cars personally, always seen them as simply something that takes me from location A to B. Don't really care / get thrill out of horsepower and so forth. Only thing that has made me enjoy my car, is a proper audio setup. Enough to the points where 2-hour trips, Options to carpool with friends, I rather take my car..fill it with the stuff I need, and just enjoy the tunes. As I keep progressing it, hopping in new speakers ( larger ) and quality, I keep looking forward to the next ride. Larger/heavier speakers completely got rid the really minor vibrations I had ( foam too ). No more ear-killing tweeters, etc. Decided to try out that JL-Audio TwK unit and I've been loving the control. Mostly a fan of EDM music ( hard stuff to chill/relaxing stuff ) pay for the high-quality formats, really notice the difference on a good setup, unlike the days of kickers..


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## beginner (Jul 4, 2016)

KillaX said:


> Can 100% agree to this. Not too crazy about cars personally, always seen them as simply something that takes me from location A to B. Don't really care / get thrill out of horsepower and so forth. Only thing that has made me enjoy my car, is a proper audio setup. Enough to the points where 2-hour trips, Options to carpool with friends, I rather take my car..fill it with the stuff I need, and just enjoy the tunes. As I keep progressing it, hopping in new speakers ( larger ) and quality, I keep looking forward to the next ride. Larger/heavier speakers completely got rid the really minor vibrations I had ( foam too ). No more ear-killing tweeters, etc. Decided to try out that JL-Audio TwK unit and I've been loving the control. Mostly a fan of EDM music ( hard stuff to chill/relaxing stuff ) pay for the high-quality formats, really notice the difference on a good setup, unlike the days of kickers..


Word. Although I am into cars the performance and audio modifications are totally separate for me. I build the thing to take me to interesting places around our great land, but I live in the city so lets face it most of the hours are still spent either in traffic or on dead boring highways and that's where the stereo is the ultimate performance mod for me, nothings going to get you home quicker than a decent system.


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## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

beginner said:


> nothings going to get you home quicker than a decent system.



THAT is NOT true for me cos I look for ways to make the drive longer when I enjoy the tune too much! 




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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Aside from aftermarket lighting on a car (and I'm talking about LED DRLs, fogs, HIDs etc, not strips or cheesy ricer light strips), car audio is really the only other thing I care about modding on my cars. I'm just not into the aftermarket scene at all. Unless you go with a top of the line model car, lighting in car's today just aren't up to my standards. 

I do like rims but I just can't justify the cost of them. Theyre just far too much money these days. I'm willing to pay for a nice set that will enhance the look of my car, but within a limit. I had them on the previous car and I could easily have done without them. Honestly, a lot of newer cars these cars look much better with their OEM rims, than aftermarket ones. Would I like new rims on my car? Forsure, but I just can't justify the cost. If I got a really good deal on a set that I found really suited my car and looked better than my stock ones, I would do it.

You don't see many people buy rims for their cars these days and from the ones that I've come across, most degrade the look of the car. I've seen very few that actually made the car look better from stock. Rims is definitely a fine line between keeping it classy and making your car look cheap.

I don't mind my OEM rims, but I have some curb rash on them from the previous owner. It doesn't bother me too much, but if I could fix them at a reasonable price I totally would. But for what it costs, its not worth it. 

Once you start changing your rims, then 

I like to keep my cars looking stock from the outside. I'm not into suspension or exhaust work at all, no thanks. Let ballers be ballers I guess. Same with those big fins, they look absolutely hideous. I laugh when I see someone driving by with a spoiler taller than the roof of their car. What is up with fart cans? I've never seen why anyone would want their car so loud. 

And that's the great thing about car audio and lighting. You can have everything off and have people look at the car from the outside and not tell that anything has been done to it. I like to keep my car looking classy and simple.


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## beginner (Jul 4, 2016)

jackk said:


> THAT is NOT true for me cos I look for ways to make the drive longer when I enjoy the tune too much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: fair point that one



Mayosandwich said:


> Aside from aftermarket lighting on a car (and I'm talking about LED DRLs, fogs, HIDs etc, not strips or cheesy ricer light strips), car audio is really the only other thing I care about modding on my cars. I'm just not into the aftermarket scene at all. Unless you go with a top of the line model car, lighting in car's today just aren't up to my standards.
> 
> I do like rims but I just can't justify the cost of them. Theyre just far too much money these days. I'm willing to pay for a nice set that will enhance the look of my car, but within a limit. I had them on the previous car and I could easily have done without them. Honestly, a lot of newer cars these cars look much better with their OEM rims, than aftermarket ones. Would I like new rims on my car? Forsure, but I just can't justify the cost. If I got a really good deal on a set that I found really suited my car and looked better than my stock ones, I would do it.
> 
> ...


I'm on board with all of this, but unfortunately not too many stock standard 4WDs will get you where you want to go. As with any vehicle though many of the functional modifications can be done cleanly without making too much of a fuss, it's still a bit of a balance though finding good performing parts that also don't look terrible, sometimes sacrifices need to be made and for me it's the appearance that comes second.


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## KillaX (Aug 3, 2016)

jackk said:


> THAT is NOT true for me cos I look for ways to make the drive longer when I enjoy the tune too much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can agree with you both...Countless time where instead of calling every bestbuy to see if they had a project, I just drove to each of them..and some hours later i find myself over an hour-north of home, at a bestbuy, not caring..because audio and good tunes xD Makes the ride go by too fast..makes you want to drive more. Can 100% fully agree & relate xD


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## caraudiopimps (May 4, 2016)

beginner said:


> I'm on board with all of this, but unfortunately not too many stock standard 4WDs will get you where you want to go. As with any vehicle though many of the functional modifications can be done cleanly without making too much of a fuss, it's still a bit of a balance though finding good performing parts that also don't look terrible, sometimes sacrifices need to be made and for me it's the appearance that comes second.


So much this.


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