# amp kits........



## adio412 (Feb 2, 2011)

is there a difference in audio and/or build quality between a $95 kicker, $55 knuconcept or a $15 legacy 4 gauge amp kit?? i guess the answer here is considered a myth-buster.........


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Yep... 

As you go down the line, insulation gets thicker, wire gets smaller and stiffer... 

Fuse holders get crappier, things aren't cut well, screws are loose in the holes... 

Quality of the plastics decreases... You get less quality accessory parts.. 

The differences near the top aren't so great, but as you get lower in level, the differences become rather clear... 

A 95$ Kicker kit should have EVERYTHING needed in it for an amp install, although there ARE different kits, some have RCAs some don't... This holds true for most wiring "kits" you have to pay attention.. Some don't include SPEAKER wire and are just a basic power/ground/remote/fuse kit... This needs to be taken into consideration as well

There are all sorts of ways to get quality cheap, if you are willing to work at it, but AFA amp *KITS* are concerned, I wouldn't skimp (and LOVE my Kicker wire kits, I've got parts of 3 in my car currently, this is not an "add")

EDIT: you don't get this from a 20$ wiring kit that I've seen recently.. although this is 8awg ( I DID this on Amazon during a sale for 30$.. sooooo yeah...!!!!)


----------



## adio412 (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks man!! u reallyput some effort intothat answer, lol.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Thank you Sir.. 

A car and a system is nothing without quality electrical... 

You can run a car on many different fuels.... You can pipe in many different gasses... I'll run... 

But you CAN'T run an automobile without electrical... 

It's the most important part of the equation in a lot of ways... and HERE, it's one of the most important..


----------



## UMWDawg92 (Mar 4, 2011)

Knukonceptz is probably the best for the money... IMO it's just as good as kicker hyperflex and the other more exspensive stuff


----------



## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

There is a huge difference between the $95 amp kit and the $15 one.. The difference becomes less and less with higher priced ones.


----------



## Phreaxer (Oct 8, 2005)

UMWDawg92 said:


> Knukonceptz is probably the best for the money... IMO it's just as good as kicker hyperflex and the other more exspensive stuff


I'd say I have to agree with this. Companies have to sell products to recoup marketing and R&D expenses, so you need to keep that in mind when looking at a item that seems overpriced for what it actually is... Monster cable for instance...


----------



## adio412 (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks guys. u all have been a massive help......


----------



## UMWDawg92 (Mar 4, 2011)

Phreaxer said:


> I'd say I have to agree with this. Companies have to sell products to recoup marketing and R&D expenses, so you need to keep that in mind when looking at a item that seems overpriced for what it actually is... Monster cable for instance...


Exactly... all Knu does is wire, signal cables and other electrical so that's all they have use their R&D on, probably why the prices stay so reasonable


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

UMWDawg92 said:


> Exactly... all Knu does is wire, signal cables and other electrical so that's all they have use their R&D on, probably why the prices stay so reasonable


That, or they take others ideas and use them and produce them as cheaply as possible in china.. 

I've seen half a dozen Knu fuse holders melted down over the years.. not saying it's not operator error, but I'm not seeing that with any of the other manufactures..


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Already 2 years plus and the Knu fuses still ok.... 
I don't why when talking about wire, Knu will always having -ve feedbacks while other brands that making less quality(on current draw) still got people praising it like god.....


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

just stating fact...

I didn't say what fuse holders (what type) just that when I've seen a melted fuse holder it a been a Knu...

Cheap is cheap for a reason...


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Well, 
cheap = bad?
expensive = good?

That's a joke...... I came accross some people that complaint about the distribution blocks also, but most of them never follow the instructions.....
Knu products are from China anyway, so do most of the brands that selling power cables.....


----------



## Nismo (Jan 10, 2010)

I've used Knu wire with great success for years. I gave up on their d-blocks though. However, with that said, I've seen the results of a big brand name (I can't remember which) that had a terminal on a fused d-block melt through the base plastic and securely insert itself into the carpet. It was an AGU fuse block, but I believe it was due to a loose connection around the AGU fuse (loose = more resistance = more heat at the point of contact).

Eric


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

kyheng said:


> Well,
> cheap = bad?
> expensive = good?
> 
> ...


Pretty much, if you wanna put it in those terms... 

There are places to skimp (and I never said a word about Knu wire) and places NOT to skimp... 

I don't trust high current to Knu fuse holders, cry me a river, K...thx..


----------



## UMWDawg92 (Mar 4, 2011)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Pretty much, if you wanna put it in those terms...
> 
> There are places to skimp (and I never said a word about Knu wire) and places NOT to skimp...
> 
> I don't trust high current to Knu fuse holders, cry me a river, K...thx..


I've never used thier fuse holders or distro blocks so I can't say anything about the quality of them. I know all of the wire they sell is as good or better than most of the higher priced wire.


----------



## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

Knu distro's aren't very good IME. Granted this was a few years ago, but I had bought a fairly large quantity of Knu fused and unfused distro blocks. The unfused distro's had screw holes that weren't properly centered and were a little skewed/off-centered on the block. I have one of the Kompression 1/0 unfused blocks and the nut for the fitting was taller than the block, so it scrapes on the bottom plastic when trying to tighten or loosen it which is a PITA. One of the fused distro's arrived broken, and was obviously a manufacturing error and not damaged in shipping. The manufacturer had overtightened one of the screws that holds the block to the plastic bottom which in turn broke the plastic bottom. In Knu's defense though, customer service was top notch. They shipped out a replacement the same day I emailed them to tell them about the problem, and did so without question.

But overall it was fairly obvious that there just wasn't close attention to detail in the manufacturing which brought the overall quality down.


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

^Well, Knu's after sales service are pretty good, no doubt on that...
Looks like I'm the only lucky fellow that have 0 problems with Knu's products?


----------



## Audiophyle (Aug 8, 2009)

Wire is pretty damn simple, I really doubt R&D makes much of an impact on final pricing.
Wire is made up of copper & a sleeve material, better sleeve material costs more than cheap material so higher priced wire may be more flexible or have a better covering.
Copper prices are getting outrageous, and being a primary component of power wire, the amount of copper in the wire has a direct impact on the price of the wire. This is not rocket science people, more copper = more money. CCA wire was introduced as a cheaper alternative to OFC because aluminum is much cheaper than copper, however the power rating for CCA wire is lower so the price difference may be negated when you figure in that a CCA wire needs to be bigger to match OFC rating.


I have seen plenty of cheap wire kits people bring in to try to save money, and Ive seen 0/1AWG amp kits from Ebay that were the exact same size in diameter as real 0/1AWG wire but literally had less copper wire in it than a standard 4AWG wire! Copper pricing affects everyone equally, so if one brand offers 0/1AWG for the same price as anothers 4AWG price, you should have an idea what to expect. 


Now companies DO spend money on marketing, and reputation also adds to pricing.
Monster is a prime example, because they have plenty of ads and they are the most expensive. Sadly many people equate the highest price as being the highest quality, and every market has at least one brand that fills that role where it seems reputation "justifies" exorbitant pricing.
What a consumer needs to do is make the judgment call between pricing & brand reputation.
Knu has proven themselves as a very good budget wire company (they also have expensive wire too  ) and is a good place to set the wire pricing bar. Keep in mind that OFC > CCA, so keep an eye on wire ratings (Knu is very upfront with this, where many online brands lie through their teeth). Brands to consider, Tsunami, Stinger, Streetwires, JL, Kicker, PG, & Knu to name a quick few off the top of my head. (oh, & Monster too)


I think the myth on wiring is you can get quality for cheap, which is clearly not the case when the primary component & actual performance of a wire is dependent on its copper content and copper is expensive by itself.


& Ive had nothing but great results with Knu gear, and have been buying stuff from them for 5+ years.


----------



## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

10 out of 10 times a block or fuse holder or speaker terminal melts its du to installation error not manufacturing quality. i use Knu all the time and have had zero issues with there stuff. im not saying im a perfect installer. but i am saying i have had no issues with melted stuff that was properly installed be it me or a take out from a previous installer. i just read a block melted and the wire attached itself to the carpet? WTF was a block doing laying on a surface that was carpeted in the first place? secure your stuff to a solid surface and things like this won't happen.


NEUMAN


----------



## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Knu stuff is not as good as the higher end brands. You can soapbox for as long as you want, it doesn't change the fact that the materials are better in the higher end brands, the designs are better in the higher end brands, and the ease of use is better in the higher end brands.

Most of the time Knu's stuff claims to be cheaper because it's not actually OFC, it's CCA. This has been covered at great length, but there's is an absolute difference between CCA and OFC. CCA has higher built in resistance, and so equal sections of CCA can't carry as much current safely as the same section of OFC. Knu (and others) try to get around this by saying that their stuff is oversized, which is true. Unfortunately, so is all the other car audio wire for the most part (Metra's Install Bay is one of the few wiring kits not oversized and actually exactly AWG sized, some other cheap brands are also not oversized and in some cases are undersized). 

That's not always a bad thing though. Say for example you're running a modest system with 150-200A of max current draw, and you like to keep it cranked playing test tones. In this case, OFC 4GA is too small, and OFC 0GA is excessive by a lot. This is where 0GA CCA works great, it's not much more expensive than 4GA OFC, and it can carry that little extra current that we want.

Personally, I think it's best to get the highest quality amp kit you can afford. Your amp kit is what makes the difference between your car working great and it burning to the ground. Tires and wiring are the two things in a car you don't skimp on IMO. You may be OK with cheapo wiring, and never have any issues. Or, you might be unlucky and have your fuse holder melt without the fuse popping and have your car burn to the ground overnight taking your garage and house with it.


----------



## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

FAUEE said:


> Or, you might be unlucky and have your fuse holder melt without the fuse popping and have your car burn to the ground overnight taking your garage and house with it.


then you should have secured the wires and fuse holder properly. it only takes a few zipties sometimes. as for the rest of what you said i can agree. but when a wire is rated at a certain amperage of draw it needs to meet that. its not like a boss 2000 watt amp that will only do 2000 on a cold day in hell running at 16 volts.


NEUMAN


----------



## Alchemy12s (Jun 1, 2011)

I went with knu for my current install. kolossus/karma/krystal for power/speaker/rca's and its quite nice, the rca's really impressed me when i opened the box and even more so for the money(i'll retract this statement if i get noise when i install them). I also got Konfused power/ground distro blocks and battery terminal also. 

The plastic covers on the distro blocks do feel a little cheap, and they are kinda drab(some might call them ugly) and plain but the blocks themselves are sufficiently beefy and the threads/compression fitting fit'n'finish is better than i expected tbh. 

Only thing i noticed i didnt like about the distribution blocks is it doesnt look like the plating was done very well on them and/or they were not cleaned very well before/after plating. Mine had what i think was chemical residue crusty **** down inside some of the pockets and one spot on the outside of one of the distro blocks. A small wire wheel and a dremel solved that easily enough, and the threads,compression, and contact surfaces were all clean. I would have liked to seen that caught by quality control, but not enough for me to make a stink over and not unexpected from stuff outa china/india/where ever these things are being made.

However that crusty ****, if there was enough of it and in the wrong places, i could easily see causing excess resistance and possibly a failure like mentioned above. Everyone should be looking for that kinda **** on any of these plated pieces tho.

Is it as good as Stinger Expert Series(i hate myself for selling that set up after my last install), not even close but i think alot of that might be from nostalga and the fact that stinger expert wire/accessories were just pretty:blush:. However i dont see any of the products sitting in front of me failing without being improperly installed.


----------



## mikelh2010 (Sep 15, 2010)

ABSOLUTELY!!! theres a huge difference in interconnect from the Walmart brand to a pro memphis kit (which i swear by) especially in the RCA department....like Aaron said above...the stuff jjust feels like crap when you pick it up....memphis just feels like a solid well made product...the RCA ends feel solid when you bend em..IMO spent the extra 20-40 and never have to replace it....and theres nothing worse than replacing a perfectly ran RCA wire through the kicks


----------



## adio412 (Feb 2, 2011)

wow, i wish my tangband thread woulda got this much attention!!!


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

FAUEE said:


> Knu stuff is not as good as the higher end brands. You can soapbox for as long as you want, it doesn't change the fact that the materials are better in the higher end brands, the designs are better in the higher end brands, and the ease of use is better in the higher end brands.
> 
> Most of the time Knu's stuff claims to be cheaper because it's not actually OFC, it's CCA. This has been covered at great length, but there's is an absolute difference between CCA and OFC. CCA has higher built in resistance, and so equal sections of CCA can't carry as much current safely as the same section of OFC. Knu (and others) try to get around this by saying that their stuff is oversized, which is true. Unfortunately, so is all the other car audio wire for the most part (Metra's Install Bay is one of the few wiring kits not oversized and actually exactly AWG sized, some other cheap brands are also not oversized and in some cases are undersized).
> 
> That's not always a bad thing though. Say for example you're running a modest system with 150-200A of max current draw, and you like to keep it cranked playing test tones. In this case, OFC 4GA is too small, and OFC 0GA is excessive by a lot. This is where 0GA CCA works great, it's not much more expensive than 4GA OFC, and it can carry that little extra current that we want.


That's what I did for my car, an 1/0 CCA.... As long as you take extra precaution, the cable can last long.... 
For me, Knu's product's are premium stuffs with a fraction of the price of it....



mikelh2010 said:


> ABSOLUTELY!!! theres a huge difference in interconnect from the Walmart brand to a pro memphis kit (which i swear by) especially in the RCA department....like Aaron said above...the stuff jjust feels like crap when you pick it up....memphis just feels like a solid well made product...the RCA ends feel solid when you bend em..IMO spent the extra 20-40 and never have to replace it....and theres nothing worse than replacing a perfectly ran RCA wire through the kicks


From using Knu's Krystal RCAs to silver plated RCAs, now am using Cat6 netork cable.... And it is the best comparing to other 2, also the cheapest....


----------

