# Your Be-All & End-All Sub(s), Because Boredom + Polls = Fun



## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Dreams incoming!!

Imagine these are the last subwoofer lines left on earth and you can only choose one model to have. 

Quantity within each chosen model is up to you. Obviously single setups won’t satisfy everyone, so if you picked the Ultimo, you could run 1, 2, 3, or however many you wanted. 

I think any of these models (maybe with a couple exceptions) would sufficiently keep most people happy. This doesn't have to be about SQ or SPL. Let’s see where everyone’s allegiance would lie.

Feel free to post the reasons behind your choice.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Wheres the JBL GTI's?


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Wheres the JBL GTI's?


They were eradicated during the invasion


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Did have a gti 15 what a sub!  then blew it at an spl test, it did hit 139.4 ported but from above list sorry but only hae experience with w7 and i would buy that if this invasion was the case!


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

12W6V2 for me. Guess the V3 might eclipse the V2, but haven't actually owned/tried the V3.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Wheres the JBL GTI's?


x2

also, the DD 3500 series is more in line for this poll. that is really where they start to shine.


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## nickt (Sep 22, 2013)

I cant believe the Focal subs are not on list. I replaced a JL 12w6v2 w/ a Focal and never looked back.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

13W7 if we're picking from the list. They would have to be IB though, they sound soooo much smoother and just better IB. They do everything well *as long as they're in the right enclosure which means larger than factory recommended or IB. They have a ton of displacement with 32mm xmax and over 4" total throw. My second choice just under the Dyn. 

My all time favorite does everything perfectly on every type of music is the Dyn Esotar 1200, it's flawless. There's nothing it doesn't sound great on. It has a level of realism that I've never heard before. 

The AEIB15s are right there with the other two and the best value of the 3. 

From the list, the W7 without a doubt. Next choice the W6, in multiples.


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## NA$TY-TA (Mar 25, 2009)

W7 here also. I've had Focal Utopia
Subs and liked them, but they didn't compare for the price i paid $1200 to the two
10W7's I have now. Like stated above I'm running sealed with a box bigger then JL specs.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

On this list... the Illusion XL. And I own an Arc Black. Those Dyns that BuickGN mentioned aren't too shabby either.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

W7 -


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## Wy2quiet (Jun 29, 2010)

I was always switching stuff around in my car. I got an IDMax a year and a half ago and I realized I have zero need to switch it unless it self-destructs. I mean I have been only running like 500w to it anyways, and it is always turned down. Pointless to do anything else.

Only thing I would end up doing is downgrade to smaller subs in whatever new car I eventually get, and run the IDMax in a home theatre install.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

In this hypothetical scenario, I probably should have included the JBL and Dyn/Focal. If I could go back and resurrect them, I probably would, but it seems the poll is uneditable. 

I probably got some funny looks for including the DD and Fi Q (those were the exceptions mentioned above), but I wanted to see who, if anyone, would vote for them out of the lineup, and I'm still waiting heh.

In these types of polls, a lot of people vote for whichever they have used or currently own. I almost made it interesting by adding a disclaimer saying you couldn't vote for a particular sub if you currently own it, and then we could see who voted for what and double check their equipment to make sure they didn't cheat lol. Maybe for a future poll 

Maybe after a while I'll start another poll existing in an alternate future/universe with a list of 10 other different models (some of the ones people wished were included in this poll), and then take the top ones from each poll and enter them in a final poll. Yes, I love polls (that's what she said etc).

I haven't voted yet, still undecided. I've only heard the IDMAX and Black so far, and if I had to pick one it would be the Black out of the two, but I'm planning to vote for one I haven't heard yet. I think 4 Ultimos would be pretty sweet, or maybe 3 XLs.


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## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

Hard to choose from such an incomplete list. Where's the Funky Pups ffs?


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Earzbleed said:


> Hard to choose from such an incomplete list. Where's the Funky Pups ffs?


It would not be fair to the other subs to have included the Funky Pups. After all, 1 8" Funky Pups is enough to level a city.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

I selected FI Q out of spite because my end-all/be-all isn't listed. 

TC2+ subs are mine. Audiomobile Evo / SS RLi / TC1000 / TC Epic / O-audio. There are other subs that are more accurate and have lower distortion, but the sound of these subs made such a strong impression on me at the turn of the millennium when I first heard them and I've always used them as my own personal reference.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Ive never owned any on the list but went with the W7 because that was the best one of 3 Ive heard on the list.
I would still be using my 15GTI's but I removed them to make room while on 3 day vacation and someone I knew stole them out of my garage.I got them for $500NIB from a shop going out of business,only used them a year.Easy com easy go I guess.

Ain't life a *****.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Hoptologist said:


> It would not be fair to the other subs to have included the Funky Pups. After all, 1 8" Funky Pups is enough to level a city.


Hmmm, must be why the pyles got left out too.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> I probably got some funny looks for including the DD and Fi Q (those were the exceptions mentioned above), but I wanted to see who, if anyone, would vote for them out of the lineup, and I'm still waiting heh.


You rang?


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

^^^ Hardly ever read anything about them on here anymore, but they used to come up in best sql sub etc lists. So good for you  What do you like most about it?



hurrication said:


> I selected FI Q out of spite because my end-all/be-all isn't listed.


Hah, the title of the thread was mainly to get people to click, the list just represents what you would be left to choose from after some hypothetical future event, not necessarily the be all end all for everyone ;p

Maybe the TC2+ will be on the part2 alternate list. I wanted to include Audiomobile but the ones I'm real interested in aren't available yet


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## bark424 (Feb 16, 2013)

I'd leave the factory stuff in


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

I love my Q because it effortlessly handles everything I can throw at it while still being accurate and musical. I have it in a 1.5 ft3 sealed enclosure right now, but I'm in the process of building the spec'd 2.35 ft3 vented enclosure, tuned to 32Hz. 

If I had to buy new, I'd go for an Ultimo or a W7, but for what I have now, it works really well.


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## sheetzdw (Jul 26, 2012)

none of the above

18" Dayton Reference RSS460HO in a 4 cubic foot box!

for less than $250 I dare you to beat it!

works for me, have yet to hear better SQ and it gets rediculous loud on 500 watt cant wait to put a bigger amp on it


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

sheetzdw said:


> none of the above
> 
> 18" Dayton Reference RSS460HO in a 4 cubic foot box!
> 
> ...


Price is not a factor (maybe money no longer exists) and the Dayton Reference you linked no longer exists in this theoretical future. That is the point of this thread, not the best $250 subwoofer  Like I said before, imagine these are the last subwoofers left on earth. If you pick none of the above then I guess your hypothetical future self wont be running a sub!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

sheetzdw said:


> none of the above
> 
> 18" Dayton Reference RSS460HO in a 4 cubic foot box!
> 
> ...


Easy. My IB15s beat it in every department and they cost me $333 for the pair shipped to my door. A single IB15 is still cheaper even today. The IB 15 has to it's advantage:

Less than half the moving mass.
MUCH lower inductance.
More displacement.
Higher efficiency so it will get louder with less power.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Moneys not a factor? I'd take the DDs. A dozen of them or more.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Moneys not a factor? I'd take the DDs. A dozen of them or more.


Finally, someone for the DD haha, I can't vote for you tho...


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

I had to go with the w7. I never would have believed I'd be happy with a pair of sealed 8's. When I installed them, I had high hopes, but in the back of my mind I was like, this will never do....that was two years ago, they are still there, in about 1.2 cubes apiece.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

For me it has to be the GTi's. I've heard W6's before and have to say I'm not impressed, it plays deep and loud sure but doesn't have the "live concert" sound ie visceral kick you in your chest impact the GTi's are able to so easily replicate when pushed.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

qwertydude said:


> For me it has to be the GTi's. I've heard W6's before and have to say I'm not impressed, it plays deep and loud sure but doesn't have the "live concert" sound ie visceral kick you in your chest impact the GTi's are able to so easily replicate when pushed.


They will be available in the parallel part2 thread. But in this particular future timeline, it is not. So out of these, whaddya pick?


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## WTF1978 (Apr 12, 2012)

For those of you that have voted, how many of the subs on the list have you heard? Unless you have heard them all how can you be sure which one you like best? I have heard and own 1(ID max). My friend has the Illusion but I haven't heard it yet. I want to hear the Morel but unless I buy one I can't see that happening. There's a long list of speakers/subs I would love to hear but the level of high end car audio in my area is terrible at best.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Question about gti series, is it the paper cone that gives it that rich bass texture? After i blew my gti (i was 18 and showing off) granted it was a 4.5cubic foot slot ported enclosure, it sounded good to me and did get loud, after it blew i replaced it with a kicker l7 but never liked the sound to me it just sounded like bass no texture just bass and was that because of the stiff cone? Sorry abit off topic


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

WTF1978 said:


> For those of you that have voted, how many of the subs on the list have you heard? Unless you have heard them all how can you be sure which one you like best? I have heard and own 1(ID max). My friend has the Illusion but I haven't heard it yet. I want to hear the Morel but unless I buy one I can't see that happening. There's a long list of speakers/subs I would love to hear but the level of high end car audio in my area is terrible at best.



I've heard five of the nine......and of those 5, I stand with my choice...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I've had 3 of them in my car and I've heard most but not all. The W7 and. W6 are hard to beat as long as they're in a large enclosure. Even when I had a single W6 IB it had some of the best punch you in the chest bass I've ever heard.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

WTF1978 said:


> For those of you that have voted, how many of the subs on the list have you heard? Unless you have heard them all how can you be sure which one you like best? I have heard and own 1(ID max). My friend has the Illusion but I haven't heard it yet. I want to hear the Morel but unless I buy one I can't see that happening. There's a long list of speakers/subs I would love to hear but the level of high end car audio in my area is terrible at best.


True, but the purpose isn't about having heard all of them and picking which sounded the best. There are plenty of threads/polls that try and do that.

The purpose of this is to choose which sub you would want to use if these were all that were left in the world. I haven't voted yet, but I'm leaning towards the XL, Ultimo, or W7, as I'm very intrigued by them and would be most interested in trying one of those out.

p.s. I'm surprise no one has yet to pick the Black to go with.


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## WTF1978 (Apr 12, 2012)

Hoptologist said:


> True, but the purpose isn't about having heard all of them and picking which sounded the best. There are plenty of threads/polls that try and do that.
> 
> The purpose of this is to choose which sub you would want to use if these were all that were left in the world. I haven't voted yet, but I'm leaning towards the XL, Ultimo, or W7, as I'm very intrigued by them and would be most interested in trying one of those out.
> 
> p.s. I'm surprise no one has yet to pick the Black to go with.


 If the subs on the list were all that were left in the world and you had to pick one why wouldn't you pick the one that sounded the best? How would you know which one you liked best unless you had heard them all? I would hate to spend a bunch on cash on speakers/subs and then find out later that I should have bought something else cause i like the sound of it better but maybe that's half the fun for some of you.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

WTF1978 said:


> If the subs on the list were all that were left in the world and you had to pick one why wouldn't you pick the one that sounded the best? How would you know which one you liked best unless you had heard them all? I would hate to spend a bunch on cash on speakers/subs and then find out later that I should have bought something else cause i like the sound of it better but maybe that's half the fun for some of you.


One of the points of this is that you don't know which you would like best. A thread like this would almost work best if no one had heard any of the subs on the list. That would let curiosity, instinct, and whatever perceptions you already have do the choosing, rather than being biased towards one over the other because you have heard it and know it sounds amazing. But it is unrealistic to expect that to happen 

SQ is so close between most of these that you really can't go wrong with any (almost any). So this is just to see which direction people would choose to go down.

It's like coming to a fork on a road you've never traveled down. Do you go left or right? Maybe you can see that one road goes into a forest, and another towards the ocean. Just as you can look up specs and read impressions of these subs. Which road do you take? It's all about curiosity.

Or being in a hall and choosing between 3 different doors. Each door leads to someplace different, and maybe you've already been through one of the doors so you know what to expect, or maybe you haven't. Which door do you choose to open?

Sound is so subjective, I don't think there can be an objective best. There are 4 baseball teams left in the world- Giants, Dodgers, Braves, and Yanks. Which do you choose to support? You have the option to be able to fly, time travel, or become invisible- which would you choose? How do you determine which superhero power would be the best? They would all be fun in their own ways, but which would most people choose to have? I'm just mining for data, and I was super bored when I started this thread.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

This is just a fun, light thread. Nothing wrong with the list. Maybe those with a problem can post another poll naming every sub ever made but I don't know how many poll options are available.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ImK'ed said:


> Question about gti series, is it the paper cone that gives it that rich bass texture? After i blew my gti (i was 18 and showing off) granted it was a 4.5cubic foot slot ported enclosure, it sounded good to me and did get loud, after it blew i replaced it with a kicker l7 but never liked the sound to me it just sounded like bass no texture just bass and was that because of the stiff cone? Sorry abit off topic


No offence, but you replaced your ferrari with a kia. 



sent from my phone using digital farts


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

minbari said:


> No offence, but you replaced your ferrari with a kia.
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


Lol.


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## bark424 (Feb 16, 2013)

ImK'ed said:


> Question about gti series, is it the paper cone that gives it that rich bass texture? After i blew my gti (i was 18 and showing off) granted it was a 4.5cubic foot slot ported enclosure, it sounded good to me and did get loud, after it blew i replaced it with a kicker l7 but never liked the sound to me it just sounded like bass no texture just bass and was that because of the stiff cone? Sorry abit off topic


 without knowing the t/s specs for both it would be hard to say. my guess is the kicker had a high Q, which means it would perform best sealed. no matter what I did my Ultimax well never sound as good ported as it does sealed. most generally a ported box gets louder but most everyone on this forum really doesn't care about how loud it gets but rather how good it sounds. seriously, it's going to get loud enough. that's what cracks me up about the Facebook car audio group, someone asks a question and you give them the right answer.... if that anger isn't what they want to hear, or go along with the trends Orr isn't what their buddy told them, then it's YOU that's the idiot.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

The L7's and most Kicker subs have a huge Vas so they need a huge box for low ported.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Lol i admit i never liked the l7 it was years ago i was trying subs, i had a jl 1000/1 at the time i loved the way you could shape the bass curve so nicely with the eq option on that amp miss it dearly! I had the kicker for a month if that i just didnt like it, but with regards to cone material is it true about paper cone giving sound?


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

ImK'ed said:


> Question about gti series, is it the paper cone that gives it that rich bass texture? After i blew my gti (i was 18 and showing off) granted it was a 4.5cubic foot slot ported enclosure, it sounded good to me and did get loud, after it blew i replaced it with a kicker l7 but never liked the sound to me it just sounded like bass no texture just bass and was that because of the stiff cone? Sorry abit off topic


No that "rich" texture is caused by a combination of lightweight cone assembly and extremely low inductance. This makes it capable of being able to respond to the subtlest bass notes. That combination also makes it have a frequency response well into 1000 hz, not subwoofer frequencies but being able to have a decent frequency response like that is essential when reproducing quick bass transients like kick drums and having the capability to move rapidly enough to reproduce bass accurately.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Illusion Audio C12XL. Just got it a few weeks ago and I love it! The bass sounds so wonderful from it. Before that my favorite was my 10w6v2.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> Illusion Audio C12XL. Just got it a few weeks ago and I love it! The bass sounds so wonderful from it. Before that my favorite was my 10w6v2.


If you're ever around the Fresno area I would love to hear it  Otherwise I'm still planning to hit you up next time I'm near Monterey!

I finally voted, but now I can no longer see who voted for what lol


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Hoptologist said:


> If you're ever around the Fresno area I would love to hear it  Otherwise I'm still planning to hit you up next time I'm near Monterey!
> 
> I finally voted, but now I can no longer see who voted for what lol


I don't make it out to the armpit of California too often :laugh::laugh::laugh: but definitely hit me up when you're in town and I'll let you hear it! I'd like to get another set of ears on it to tell me if I need to do any tuning.


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## djPerfectTrip (Aug 15, 2013)

I've never heard any of these =^(

went with the W7, power of marketing I guess...


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> I don't make it out to the armpit of California too often :laugh::laugh::laugh:


That would be BuickGN's stomping grounds... Bakersfield.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

rton20s said:


> That would be BuickGN's stomping grounds... Bakersfield.


Hahaha I think that whole hwy 99 corridor qualifies But I would like to hear Buick's car sometime.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I would say Bakersfield takes the title. That is unless you count the outlying areas like Shafter or Wasco or Taft (anyone seen "The best of Times?"). It's redeeming quality is you're close to a lake , the beach, Vegas, snow in the mountains, etc. If it weren't for the close proximity of those places I would have put a gun to my head a long time ago. Well not really but you get the point. 

Anyone is welcome to hear my junk anytime.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> I would say Bakersfield takes the title. That is unless you count the outlying areas like Shafter or Wasco or Taft (anyone seen "The best of Times?"). It's redeeming quality is you're close to a lake , the beach, Vegas, snow in the mountains, etc. If it weren't for the close proximity of those places I would have put a gun to my head a long time ago. Well not really but you get the point.
> 
> Anyone is welcome to hear my junk anytime.


Heh, my aunts lived in Bakersfield for a few years now, works at CNS down there and lives somewhere on the west/north west area, it's not too bad looking there. Plus you got Lengthwise which is a pretty cool brewery. A couple weekends ago though we went through the Mojave, but stopped at some Jack in the Box at 58 and Union, and it was pretty bad lookin, reminded me of South Fresno hehe. 

Next time I pass through, I'd love to hear your system. Still have never heard any Dyn's, plus I think you guys have a shop that carries Morel, which I've also never gotten to hear! I would have looked up and stopped at that shop, but the gf wasn't having it!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Bottom line, I think there enough guys in our area now that we can have an official Central California get together. We just need to find a good location, date... and for me to get my gear installed!


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Community on the spot install? I remember doing these back in the day and getting a system entirely installed in about half a day. That's head unit, amp, speakers and simple stick on deadening. Also including pizza breaks for everyone. Didn't have no fancy DSP's back in those days so tuning was easier.

Plus headunit's simply popped out too. Didn't have to take apart half the dashboard. Door panels held on with maybe a third the fasteners of cars today and they popped out easier. Some of the fasteners now hold on so tightly they break when you try to pull them without a specialized prying tool.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

For those who have heard the XL, is it pretty flat throughout the sub range, I mean is it peaky at all? It's just crazy to me that it wants such a small box~ 1cuft sealed. 

For some reason I have it in my mind that small boxes = peaky, and large boxes = flat and more output, and apparently I need to get this notion out of my head. IIRC, the Hertz HX300 12" also wants a small box, like .8cuft sealed or something. Someone slap me with a large trout.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

'Slap slap' 

The key is to use stuffing. Illusion recommends 50% stuffed. I have it in slightly over 1 cube with a half sheet of bhstuff and response is flat and it plays nice 'n deep. I was using an idq12v3 prior with a full sheet of bhstuff and without changing any eq the c12xl plays deeper. I know a couple others are using enclosures that are slightly less than 1 cube with this sub with good results. Hopefully they will chime in


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

I've had hours with the W7 & IDMAX. When I heard the Morel, I was like WTF is that!?!? It is soooo in your throat, my first reaction was just jaw dropping! That was a year ago. I was soooo impressed, I've gone all Morel in one of my rides.

Not high end Morel but there mid level stuff. The best way I can describe it is Natural, real and very life like. You pretty much just here the music, and not the speakers. 

That crazy little man at Morel KNOWS speakers!




WTF1978 said:


> For those of you that have voted, how many of the subs on the list have you heard? Unless you have heard them all how can you be sure which one you like best? I have heard and own 1(ID max). My friend has the Illusion but I haven't heard it yet. I want to hear the Morel but unless I buy one I can't see that happening. There's a long list of speakers/subs I would love to hear but the level of high end car audio in my area is terrible at best.


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## DBlevel (Oct 6, 2006)

W7 if from the list........


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> 'Slap slap'
> 
> The key is to use stuffing. Illusion recommends 50% stuffed. I have it in slightly over 1 cube with a half sheet of bhstuff and response is flat and it plays nice 'n deep. I was using an idq12v3 prior with a full sheet of bhstuff and without changing any eq the c12xl plays deeper. I know a couple others are using enclosures that are slightly less than 1 cube with this sub with good results. Hopefully they will chime in


Ah, right, forgot about the stuffing. I've heard the XL plays super deep, but how are the upper frequencies as well, like 60-80hz range? I imagine it would be safe to assume you gained a lot of output going from the IDQ to the XL as well. Did you change the amp you were using?



CrossFired said:


> I've had hours with the W7 & IDMAX. When I heard the Morel, I was like WTF is that!?!? It is soooo in your throat, my first reaction was just jaw dropping! That was a year ago. I was soooo impressed, I've gone all Morel in one of my rides.
> 
> Not high end Morel but there mid level stuff. The best way I can describe it is Natural, real and very life like. You pretty much just here the music, and not the speakers.
> 
> That crazy little man at Morel KNOWS speakers!


Lol, I wish I knew what you meant by being in your throat. From what I've read about the Ultimo, it tends to blend seamlessly.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

Hoptologist said:


> Lol, I wish I knew what you meant by being in your throat.


When I do woman, they often tell me, your in me so deep, I can feel it in my throat.

Thats how deep the Morel Ultimo hit.:surprised:


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I've had a W7, several W6v2's and a W6v3....after hearing a pair of Ultimo 10's and a single Ultimo 12 this weekend (and a couple others on the poll list) I bought an Ultimo 12 on the spot.

FWIW I liked the W6v2's much better than the v3 in the same size enclosure on the same power. The vehicle was different though...don't know how much that matters. The v3 just comes off as flabby to me.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

UNBROKEN said:


> I've had a W7, several W6v2's and a W6v3....after hearing a pair of Ultimo 10's and a single Ultimo 12 this weekend (and a couple others on the poll list) I bought an Ultimo 12 on the spot.
> 
> FWIW I liked the W6v2's much better than the v3 in the same size enclosure on the same power. The vehicle was different though...don't know how much that matters. The v3 just comes off as flabby to me.


In my experience, vehicle plays a huge part. My IDMAX sealed sounded freaking amazing in my '99 Mitsubishi Galant... still sounds good in my '07 Accord, but definitely not the same level of good.

How does the output of an Ultimo 12 compare to the W7/W6? There's an old review of one on this forum where the OP said "is it turned on?" and then he went into talking about how transparent it was etc. I obviously need to read more on the Ultimo... wish CA&E was still around, their reviews were great.

I have no basis for this, but I have a feeling the Ultimo might be close to the Black in terms of SQ/depth/etc... have you heard one yet?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I know he heard the Ultimo within a couple of hours (at most) of hearing at least one install of the Carbon XL12 on Saturday. Hoptologist... you should have been there.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Great topic here...I've had an Ultimo 12 in the spare well of a Lincoln LS for over 2 years now. The box is approx 1.5 cu.ft plus almost a pound of poly fill. 1200 watts HD amp. It IS a transparent sub that can get loud but I am kind of over it now. I am now looking for my End All be All Sub(s). I thought the Ultimo was it, but that has changed. Currently looking hard at dual 12w6v3's or dual C12Xls...my budget and practicality says JL, my curiosity and patience says C12XL. I would like to find out how to determine the best subwoofer configuration tailored "for the vehicle," before my next investment.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

rton20s said:


> I know he heard the Ultimo within a couple of hours (at most) of hearing at least one install of the Carbon XL12 on Saturday. Hoptologist... you should have been there.


Ah man, I wish I could have been. Who had the XL12 at the meet? I'm assuming you heard both of them too then, how would you describe the differences? I want details! lol. 



Bluenote said:


> Great topic here...I've had an Ultimo 12 in the spare well of a Lincoln LS for over 2 years now. The box is approx 1.5 cu.ft plus almost a pound of poly fill. 1200 watts HD amp. It IS a transparent sub that can get loud but I am kind of over it now. I am now looking for my End All be All Sub(s). I thought the Ultimo was it, but that has changed. Currently looking hard at dual 12w6v3's or dual C12Xls...my budget and practicality says JL, my curiosity and patience says C12XL. I would like to find out how to determine the best subwoofer configuration tailored "for the vehicle," before my next investment.


Interesting, you don't think adding another Ultimo 12 would change things, eh? In that case, I vote you should try dual XL lol. I hear you on the price, man, those things aren't cheap and I haven't seen any used for sale, but when I do... it will be a race.


----------



## TMR (Feb 18, 2009)

Aura 1808's


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

TMR said:


> Aura 1808's


<sigh>

oke:

:z:


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Hoptologist said:


> Ah man, I wish I could have been. Who had the XL12 at the meet? I'm assuming you heard both of them too then, how would you describe the differences? I want details! lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, you don't think adding another Ultimo 12 would change things, eh? In that case, I vote you should try dual XL lol. I hear you on the price, man, those things aren't cheap and I haven't seen any used for sale, but when I do... it will be a race.


Yes, I've thought of adding a 2nd Ultimo but I would need more space and more power to do it right. I plan to stick with a single amp and use subs that require the smallest enclosure in order to keep it all in the spare well. Mounting depth is another prohibiting factor as the 12w6v3 and IDmax are both deeper than the Ultimo and C12XL...


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## djPerfectTrip (Aug 15, 2013)

As much crap as people talk about JL, it's interesting that they are beating every other sub and almost double for the second most voted.


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## WTF1978 (Apr 12, 2012)

djPerfectTrip said:


> As much crap as people talk about JL, it's interesting that they are beating every other sub and almost double for the second most voted.


I would bet that there are more W7s and W6s out there than all the other subs on the list combined.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Hoptologist said:


> Ah man, I wish I could have been. Who had the XL12 at the meet? I'm assuming you heard both of them too then, how would you describe the differences? I want details! lol.


I didn't. Actually I didn't demo the Ultimo or the Carbon XL this weekend. :shame:

I spent more time just talking (even more listening) with guys than I did demoing. My wife did get to demo MrsPapasin's Smart with the up front Carbon C12XL though.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

rton20s said:


> I didn't. Actually I didn't demo the Ultimo or the Carbon XL this weekend. :shame:
> 
> I spent more time just talking (even more listening) with guys than I did demoing. My wife did get to demo MrsPapasin's Smart with the up front Carbon C12XL though.


Yes, it is a shame. While your wife was demoing MrsPapasin's Smart, you should have been demoing mine


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

papasin said:


>


How is there no emoticon for :drool: 

More importantly, how much do you want for your used XL's?  

You are living the dream :rockon: :beerchug:


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Two IS better than one!


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## djPerfectTrip (Aug 15, 2013)

How big is that box?


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Hoptologist said:


> More importantly, how much do you want for your used XL's?
> 
> You are living the dream :rockon: :beerchug:


Lol, not gonna happen  . I was on the waitlist (along with some others) for some time. Might be better now, but check with your local dealer.



Golden Ear said:


> Two IS better than one!


Hehe, different animal. Sure, two will give more output, but if you're comparing my two in the trunk to the Smart up front, SQ bass on the Smart is redonkulous (now that it's broken in compared to when you demo'd it). Not to mention how the Smart stages and images is out of this world. It got various compliments at the meet of seeing the point sources where they are, but the image is behind them, like well behind them. I had JT give Gary Summers a demo (for those of you who don't know Gary, look him up on IMDB ). I got an in depth debrief from JT, and when I asked Gary directly what he thought, he didn't say anything other than :thumbsup:.



djPerfectTrip said:


> How big is that box?


Right around 2 cubic feet, with a sheet of Focal BHSTUFF .


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

papasin said:


> Yes, it is a shame. While your wife was demoing MrsPapasin's Smart, you should have been demoing mine


I'm afraid if I did that, my son would have taken the opportunity to drive away in The Magic Bus while unsupervised.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

rton20s said:


> I'm afraid if I did that, my son would have taken the opportunity to drive away in The Magic Bus while unsupervised.


Lol...I don't buy it  . We had both our kids there as you saw and the Mrs demoed more cars than probably anyone else. Back OT, OP, if you want to hear the dual 12 XLs (or the single 12XL up front in the Mrs ride) and up in this area, feel free to send me a PM .

...or if you central cal guys want to organize a meet, I think a combination of norcal and socal folks may be interested in coming down/up since it would be half way .


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

How sweet it be to be able to audition all of these subs in our own vehicles...

Anyways, we have 50 votes now.

I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was maybe going to put together an alternate, PART2, last remaining subs on Earth thread, taking into consideration some of the "missing" subs *looks at you JBL GTi guys* :smart:

I don't know how much of polls like these turn into popularity contests versus actually choosing to try something different, or if that even matters. Obviously if a DC sub was on this list, and someone coming to vote was running that, they may vote for their DC sub. I get that people want to see their team win or see their sub represented, but would someone really choose a DC sub over, say, an XL or W7, if those were all that remained on the planet? 

Obviously my bias against DC is now playing a factor, and I could maybe see someone choosing a DC sub over an XL/W7 if they had already owned a XL/W7 and wanted to try something different, but if a DC sub owner comes in and chooses the DC sub simply because they want to see it get get more votes, then that kind of defeats the purpose of the thread. And then you have people coming in and voting for what would be loudest, or what they think would sound the best, but it doesn't have to be about that either- although it's fine if it is- this is a personal decision. 

For me, it's more about curiosity and interest, unless you are totally in love with the sub you already own and would not hesitant to pick it out of this lineup, which is completely valid (unless you are running a DC sub haha jk). I'm not saying anyone came in here and voted to see their sub "win", and I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying that's always a factor in voting. And no, if I do post the PART2 thread, it wont include a DC sub, that was just an example. 

And again, I voted for the XL simply because it is a huge mystery to me. It's relatively new, I doubt no more than a few people own one in my city (more likely no one), and I want to hear one real bad lol. I would equally consider running a W7, and I already know I love the IDMAX and Black. Anyways, that was my thought process in voting.

So yeah, I think I'll do a PART2 for fun. I know it's kind of silly, and there are a hundred 'Best SQ sub' threads/polls, but hopefully it will be different (and even if it's not, at least it might be fun lol).


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

I have a question for everyone. Let's take the W7 for example, is there a particular size that each person had in mind when they voted for it? Does the 10" version sound just as good as the 12" or 13"? If not, would you still have voted for it? This is applicable to all the subs on the list, I'm just using the w7 as example since it received the most votes.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

I've got two of the 8's and absolutely love them......


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I think we're comparing subs with different demographics. 
How many W7's are in true SQ cars anyway?
I don't know but I assume not a whole lot?
I don't think the Ultimo and the W7 are marketed to the same person generally but I could be wrong. 
I don't think one is better than the other...they're just but to do different things.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

The w7 is not marketed or meant for spl. It kinda splits the worlds, but it definately makes a better sq than spl. What you get out of it is strictly volume dependent.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

UNBROKEN said:


> I think we're comparing subs with different demographics.
> How many W7's are in true SQ cars anyway?
> I don't know but I assume not a whole lot?
> I don't think the Ultimo and the W7 are marketed to the same person generally but I could be wrong.
> I don't think one is better than the other...they're just but to do different things.


I thought the W7 was SQ and the W6 was "SQL" but I might be wrong. 

Anyways, to compensate for differences in output, that's why I mentioned in the opening post that while you could only pick one model, quantity within the chosen model was not limited to one. I assume one W7 would be louder than one Ultimo, but I figure 3 Ultimos would crush one W7. Doing the poll that way doesn't limit the chosen sub to the one that has the most output to satisfy our inner basshead.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

Hoptologist said:


> I thought the W7 was SQ and the W6 was "SQL" but I might be wrong.
> 
> Anyways, to compensate for differences in output, that's why I mentioned in the opening post that while you could only pick one model, quantity within the chosen model was not limited to one. I assume one W7 would be louder than one Ultimo, but I figure 3 Ultimos would crush one W7. Doing the poll that way doesn't limit the chosen sub to the one that has the most output to satisfy our inner basshead.


My math may be off, but I get the W7 at 112 db rms and the Ultimo at 116 db rms. Both 10's


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

CrossFired said:


> My math may be off, but I get the W7 at 112 db rms and the Ultimo at 116 db rms. Both 10's


Well it was just an assumption 

I see that efficiency is better on the Morel, but is that enough to guarantee it will seem louder? From what I've read, the dryness of the Morel would make it seem to not have as much output as the W7. Maybe the W7's aggressiveness is what makes it appear to sound louder than the Morel? Anyways, lots of good info in this thread http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...nt-my-car/138726-jl-w7-subs-played-out-2.html

From reading about the W7, it seems it is very picky w/ enclosures. 

I see the W7 being often described as boomy, and the Morel being described as musical. But again, it seems the W7 will sound boomy if it's not in an ideal enclosure. I don't know.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm still baffled the Arc Audio Black only received 1 vote LOL. Truly an amazing sub, digs deep, great low-end. 

I need to learn more about parameters. In that JL thread, quality_sound said, "You might not LIKE a Qtc of .72. A lot of people don't. They think it's too dry. That's why JL tends to recommend Qtc in the .8-.95 range."

Also want to learn more about inductance, which so far I've gathered is denoted by "Le" in specsheets, although many subs don't list this parameter, such as IDMAX and W7. The Illusion and Black do, the Black lists it for series and parallel configurations. I've heard and read from numerous people that the Black has next to no distortion, but it's Le parameter seems higher than some others. Does Le relate to distortion?


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Hoptologist said:


> Well it was just an assumption
> 
> I see that efficiency is better on the Morel, but is that enough to guarantee it will seem louder? From what I've read, the dryness of the Morel would make it seem to not have as much output as the W7. Maybe the W7's aggressiveness is what makes it appear to sound louder than the Morel? Anyways, lots of good info in this thread http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...nt-my-car/138726-jl-w7-subs-played-out-2.html
> 
> ...


Speaking of which I put my Ultimo up for sale in classifieds today...I am gonna try the 12w6v3...Really want the 12W7 but it's too deep for my spare well...


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

The inductance spec (Le) by itself is just a number that will tell you how high a subwoofer will play. 
What will play an important part is how you implement the different approach in order to provide linear inductance. This reduces intermodulation distortion which is more important than a low Le number. 

Kelvin


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Bluenote said:


> Speaking of which I put my Ultimo up for sale in classifieds today...I am gonna try the 12w6v3...Really want the 12W7 but it's too deep for my spare well...


Lol, you and UNBROKEN are on opposite sides of the same stick, sort of. I look forward to both of your future impressions. 



subwoofery said:


> The inductance spec (Le) by itself is just a number that will tell you how high a subwoofer will play.
> What will play an important part is how you implement the different approach in order to provide linear inductance. This reduces intermodulation distortion which is more important than a low Le number.
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks Kelvin, so the lower the Le, the higher the sub can play. That makes sense when looking at the Arc Black. One of the only gripes with that sub was wanting it to play higher notes better. The 12" D2 V1 had an Le of 3.29/.82 and the 12" D4 V1 had 4.5/2.25 for series/parallel. The V2 is supposed to improve the upper bass notes and has an Le of 2.34 for the D2 and 3.53 for the D4. The V2 specs tho don't list separate Le numbers for series/parallel. So does this mean wiring the V1 in parallel would have enabled it to play higher better?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Hoptologist said:


> I'm still baffled the Arc Audio Black only received 1 vote LOL. Truly an amazing sub, digs deep, great low-end.
> 
> I need to learn more about parameters. In that JL thread, quality_sound said, "You might not LIKE a Qtc of .72. A lot of people don't. They think it's too dry. That's why JL tends to recommend Qtc in the .8-.95 range."
> 
> Also want to learn more about inductance, which so far I've gathered is denoted by "Le" in specsheets, although many subs don't list this parameter, such as IDMAX and W7. The Illusion and Black do, the Black lists it for series and parallel configurations. I've heard and read from numerous people that the Black has next to no distortion, but it's Le parameter seems higher than some others. Does Le relate to distortion?


 
My 15s have an Le of .16mh and will play 4khz and more. I've tricked people into thinking I have coaxials in the rear with the subs playing full range.

About the JLs. Each higher number is better in both SQ and SPL. The W7 is better than the W6 in every way. It's a SQ sub with a lot of linear excursion. Unfortunately the dumbasses get ahold of them and throw them in SPL enclosures. That's not what you do with a SQ sub, it will make any sub sound bad. The W7 is a terrible deal if SPL is your goal. Sure, it gets loud but a lot of that money you're paying is for one of the best SQ subs around. I don't know how much excursion the Morel Ultimo has but if I remember right it's less than half the W7 so the W7 will be louder period unless you're running a 50hz test tone lol. 

Those complaining about them being boomy or aggressive likely do not have them set up right. They do need a larger box than suggested to sound their best. They make a great IB sub. The W6 and W7 are the best I've ever heard when in an IB setup, good enough that my IB15s are going bye bye when I have the money to get a pair of 13W7s.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

How would a 10w6v2 do in an ib setup? I have one sealed now and it's been one of my favorite subs. It's almost time for a new car and I'm thinking of getting a second 10w6v2 and going ib. Would it work. More importantly, would it sound good?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Just looked it up. The 12W7 has 542cm^2 cone area and 29mm one way linear excursion. The Ultimo 12 has 448cm^2 cone area and 12.5mm one way linear excursion. The W7 will far exceed the Ultimo in SPL in the lower stuff not to mention it's probably more linear at any volume.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> My 15s have an Le of .16mh and will play 4khz and more. I've tricked people into thinking I have coaxials in the rear with the subs playing full range.


Do you have any pics of your setup? I'd really like to see how your Dyns look  

I also see you decided to keep your setup? (saw your for sale thread previously)


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> Speaking of which I put my Ultimo up for sale in classifieds today...I am gonna try the 12w6v3...Really want the 12W7 but it's too deep for my spare well...


We should have just traded straight up. LOL
I'll have a barely broken in 12W6v3 up for sale next week if the kid that works for me backs out on buying it.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

UNBROKEN, I would have gladly done that lol...your gonna like the Ultimo. It was my first sub ever, so I'll have a good measurement to test other subs I try out.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Hoptologist said:


> Do you have any pics of your setup? I'd really like to see how your Dyns look
> 
> I also see you decided to keep your setup? (saw your for sale thread previously)


I had pictures of everything but my host went away. I'll upload some more soon, I've never done a build thread. There's still a chance I may sell everything including the car they're in.


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## 63flip (Oct 16, 2013)

w7's have my vote all day long. I am running a 8w7ea in the spec port box on a Slash 250/1 in my extended cab Ranger. People can't believe that's all I'm running. I had planned on buying 2 but one was enough!
Also have a 12w7 in the h.o. box on a 500/1. This single sub replaced a pair of w6's. HUGE FAN! 

I'm adding this after reading some of the posts on this thread. 
My first thoughts were about the SPL of these subs but that's not the only reason I voted for them. The 8w7 in my Ranger is right behind me and stays crystal clear with any type of music at any volume. I think it wins in SQ and SPL personally.


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## fast4door (Aug 2, 2012)

Just install 2 w7's and call it a day


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

PART2 is underway, similar scenario, different subs: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...0-these-last-subs-left-earth.html#post1982144


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

Bluenote said:


> Yes, I've thought of adding a 2nd Ultimo but I would need more space and more power to do it right. I plan to stick with a single amp and use subs that require the smallest enclosure in order to keep it all in the spare well. Mounting depth is another prohibiting factor as the 12w6v3 and IDmax are both deeper than the Ultimo and C12XL...


You should sell the Ultimo12 and go with 2 Ultimo 12SC's you would be happy they are more efficient and can go into a smaller enclosure. I think you would be surprised. I love the IDmax and both Ultimo's but they each have their own purpose. The IDmax is not as transparent. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

For 60hz and down IDmax 15's IB. Unreal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

ImK'ed said:


> Did have a gti 15 what a sub!  then blew it at an spl test, it did hit 139.4 ported but from above list sorry but only have experience with w7 and i would buy that if this invasion was the case!



Sheesh what the hell did you feed it? .....we plugged a 12 GTi into the wall socket for well over one minute on and off and it held up find.

Knocked the signage off the front of the shop.

Tossed it back in the car and it survived 2 different owners for at least the next year! I knew when that car drove by at 2 in the morning.

60 hz emanating from that sub _*sounds*_ like an alien invasion.:laugh:


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

SilkySlim said:


> For 60hz and down IDmax 15's IB. Unreal.
> 
> Edit: not that they sound bad at other upper freq. either. That's just my setup and Wow!
> 
> ...





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## camse2007 (Oct 5, 2013)

Hey fellas, I love everything about my sundown sa12...the value is astonishing, however, as I'm getting older, I'm starting to trend my gear towards Sq. How are these woofers, entitled as being good for sq, going to be different than what I'm getting from my current woofer' generally speaking. Forgive my ignorance..


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

camse2007 said:


> Hey fellas, I love everything about my sundown sa12...the value is astonishing, however, as I'm getting older, I'm starting to trend my gear towards Sq. How are these woofers, entitled as being good for sq, going to be different than what I'm getting from my current woofer' generally speaking. Forgive my ignorance..


Hey, I've never heard your sub but most of these should give you a huge improvement in tonality and composure. Hopefully someone else can chime in with more solid info.


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## nickt (Sep 22, 2013)

camse2007 said:


> Hey fellas, I love everything about my sundown sa12...the value is astonishing, however, as I'm getting older, I'm starting to trend my gear towards Sq. How are these woofers, entitled as being good for sq, going to be different than what I'm getting from my current woofer' generally speaking. Forgive my ignorance..


I have the 16" Focal 40kx. Comparing it to my JL sub, it sounds like it's not even there. It just blends in w/ the rest of the system without ever calling attention to itself. It does that by by not sounding sluggish. The bass note starts and stops accordingly to the original source, w/o any lingering. And my trunk does not rattle and my neighbors can't hear me which is always a bonus for keeping thieves away. 
You will hear it when you listen to one and have a friend w/ some experience showing you what to look for. I hope what I said make sense!


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

W7 wins again, 12+ year old design and still a champ. I wonder though if a patent is only good for like 7 years how come no one else makes anything close to the w7?. Or is that why jl paints them and calls them anniverary edition to keep the patent current?.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Richv72 said:


> W7 wins again, 12+ year old design and still a champ. I wonder though if a patent is only good for like 7 years how come no one else makes anything close to the w7?. Or is that why jl paints them and calls them anniverary edition to keep the patent current?.


I'd still like to know what people have found to be the ideal sized sealed enclosure for the 10". Searching for it has been pretty useless.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I believe its 1.25 cu ft. for a 10 w7. edit: had to change to 1.25, I think the 8's are 1 cu ft.


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## probillygun (Oct 10, 2013)

Richv72 said:


> I believe its 1.25 cu ft. for a 10 w7. edit: had to change to 1.25, I think the 8's are 1 cu ft.


the 8w7's sealed box should be .875 cubes net. vol. per JL's website


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Richv72 said:


> I believe its 1.25 cu ft. for a 10 w7. edit: had to change to 1.25, I think the 8's are 1 cu ft.


Yes jl says 1.25^3 but it seems like everyone prefers them in larger than spec'd enclosures. Anyone know what WinISD says?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> Yes jl says 1.25^3 but it seems like everyone prefers them in larger than spec'd enclosures. Anyone know what WinISD says?



Not sure about WinISD, but BuickGN would say IB.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

rton20s said:


> Not sure about WinISD, but BuickGN would say IB.


A little hard in a Tahoe...unless Golden Ear wants to build a wall.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

papasin said:


> A little hard in a Tahoe...unless Golden Ear wants to build a wall.


EXACTLY! And my wife would kill me if I took up that much space! IB would be nice but sealed is optimal for me. Just need to know the ideal size


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

rton20s said:


> Not sure about WinISD, but BuickGN would say IB.


You got that right lol. IB is always the right answer. 

If you're going sealed, I would go considerably larger than the recommended size. 

Just modeled the 10W7 in WinISD and for a .707 Qts it calls for 2 cubes.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> You got that right lol. IB is always the right answer.
> 
> If you're going sealed, I would go considerably larger than the recommended size.
> 
> Just modeled the 10W7 in WinISD and for a .707 Qts it calls for 2 cubes.


2 cubes That's around the size of the HO ported enclosure it came in!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Well 1.9 and change.  Many people use them in the recommended enclosure size and like them. Maybe going as far as you can fit over the recommended size will be good enough.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Well 1.9 and change.  Many people use them in the recommended enclosure size and like them. Maybe going as far as you can fit over the recommended size will be good enough.


I have a 1^3' prefab enclosure I was going to try with some bhstuff in it to make up for the 1/4' that I'm missing. Hopefully it sounds ok:worried:


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## todj (Dec 11, 2008)

My list would go in order:
TC Sounds LMS-5400/Ultra
Resonant Engineering XXX w/ xbl^2, Ti Basket
JBL GTi


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

todj said:


> My list would go in order:
> TC Sounds LMS-5400/Ultra
> Resonant Engineering XXX w/ xbl^2, Ti Basket
> JBL GTi


I'm confused  I think you posted in the wrong thread. None of those subs exist in this hypothetical future.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Hoptologist said:


> I'm confused  I think you posted in the wrong thread. None of those subs exist in this hypothetical future.


Your future has too many rules.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Your future has too many rules.


Hehe, all my future requires is reading the OP 

I just wanted it to be a different poll, but I've come to realize all poll threads are the same... no matter what is listed on the poll itself, countless people will come, not bother to read the OP, and subsequently name drop something unrelated. I take partial blame for the ridiculous thread title, but I mean, everything is clearly spelled out in the OP, and about 10 times throughout the thread in my replies to people who have done the same thing that todj has just done. Comprehension 101 people 

I think a more interesting poll scenario for this thread would have been something like 'which sub that you've never heard would you want to hear the most'. Or 'which sub that you've never owned would you want to own the most'. That way, people couldn't vote for whatever they are currently running, or have run. But then of course people will still come in, disregard the OP, name drop a couple subs, and the subs will just happen to be what they are running in their sig lol. :laugh:


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## orgasm_donor (Nov 26, 2013)

I am a huge fan of Digital Designs. I would put my 3512 up against pretty much anything on the planet for SQ and SPL. The 2512 is a great sub for the price but its bigger, badder brother is just sooo much better.

That said, be prepared to run 1500+ watts of RMS power to that badboy.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

orgasm_donor said:


> I am a huge fan of Digital Designs. I would put my 3512 up against pretty much anything on the planet for SQ and SPL. The 2512 is a great sub for the price but its bigger, badder brother is just sooo much better.
> 
> That said, be prepared to run 1500+ watts of RMS power to that badboy.


I hear you, DD subs are terribly misrepresented all the time.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Hoptologist said:


> Hehe, all my future requires is reading the OP
> 
> I just wanted it to be a different poll, but I've come to realize all poll threads are the same... no matter what is listed on the poll itself, countless people will come, not bother to read the OP, and subsequently name drop something unrelated. I take partial blame for the ridiculous thread title, but I mean, everything is clearly spelled out in the OP, and about 10 times throughout the thread in my replies to people who have done the same thing that todj has just done. Comprehension 101 people
> 
> I think a more interesting poll scenario for this thread would have been something like 'which sub that you've never heard would you want to hear the most'. Or 'which sub that you've never owned would you want to own the most'. That way, people couldn't vote for whatever they are currently running, or have run. But then of course people will still come in, disregard the OP, name drop a couple subs, and the subs will just happen to be what they are running in their sig lol. :laugh:


My Critical Mass oval shaped sub is the best sub on the planet!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I originally voted for the Ultimo...I'd like to change my vote to the Illusion now. lol


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## yogegoy (Feb 11, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> My Critical Mass oval shaped sub is the best sub on the planet!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Now I'm wondering why you would call your sub an oval shaped when my subs aren't?


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

I was talking about the Ukysses...and I was jk


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## Nismo (Jan 10, 2010)

If I lose my Brahma, I guess I'll opt for deafness! My absolute fav...and I'm not sure I can find another that will do the job.

Well...unless I went with the Adire Apocalypse, but I don't have $6k+ laying around. 

Eric


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## Nismo (Jan 10, 2010)

Hoptologist said:


> Hehe, all my future requires is reading the OP
> 
> I just wanted it to be a different poll, but I've come to realize all poll threads are the same... no matter what is listed on the poll itself, countless people will come, not bother to read the OP, and subsequently name drop something unrelated. I take partial blame for the ridiculous thread title, but I mean, everything is clearly spelled out in the OP, and about 10 times throughout the thread in my replies to people who have done the same thing that todj has just done. Comprehension 101 people
> 
> I think a more interesting poll scenario for this thread would have been something like 'which sub that you've never heard would you want to hear the most'. Or 'which sub that you've never owned would you want to own the most'. That way, people couldn't vote for whatever they are currently running, or have run. But then of course people will still come in, disregard the OP, name drop a couple subs, and the subs will just happen to be what they are running in their sig lol. :laugh:


I'm guilty, and I'm not sure I feel bad about it!

Eric


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## Fade2Black93 (Dec 25, 2013)

Ok then i will say this...the subs that i have never heard but have Very much like to would be the W7 10"...the IDQ 10" as well. Maybe even a JACKHAMMER SUB!!! And stack them up against a Eclipse 88100.4 10". And then buy the one that sounds the best...and will punch u in the chest all at the same time. JM.02


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Aura NRT18-8 running IB. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Golden Ear said:


> My Critical Mass oval shaped sub is the best sub on the planet!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


I hear their subs are very nice, some of the best back when they were new. We all know the story on the amps though. I would actually try one of the subs if they were priced in the $400 or lower range.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> I hear their subs are very nice, some of the best back when they were new. We all know the story on the amps though. I would actually try one of the subs if they were priced in the $400 or lower range.


I heard the same thing. But what was the msrp on those things? And would they hold their own against the likes of similarly priced subs like the C12XL, Dyn, or Morel?


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## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

Nismo said:


> If I lose my Brahma, I guess I'll opt for deafness! My absolute fav...and I'm not sure I can find another that will do the job.
> 
> Well...unless I went with the Adire Apocalypse, but I don't have $6k+ laying around.
> 
> Eric


Agreed on the Brahma. Most accurate and transparent sub I've owned (disdain for the company ethics not withstanding). But the 10w7 does everything well for me. Output, accuracy, bottom & fullness (on synthesized bass as well, as opposed to the Brahma). 

Glad to hear I can run a pair IB. Was discouraged bc I've heard otherwise.


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## Nismo (Jan 10, 2010)

mikechec9 said:


> Agreed on the Brahma. Most accurate and transparent sub I've owned (disdain for the company ethics not withstanding). But the 10w7 does everything well for me. Output, accuracy, bottom & fullness (on synthesized bass as well, as opposed to the Brahma).
> 
> Glad to hear I can run a pair IB. Was discouraged bc I've heard otherwise.


I greatly miss my Mk I Brahma 15s. I had to sell them for various reasons, so I vowed I'd buy another if I found one. Stumbled on one for $40 plus shipping, supposedly blown. Turns out, it was a broken terminal only. Runs great in my car, and I've only got $80 in it. I have a buddy that can redo it if I ever need...and another buddy that did half of the repair work for Adire subs that were blown up! 

Eric


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

13w7....for me it is a no brainer.

Simply put....I have had the same 13w7 since 2005 and it has suffered a TON of abuse and has never flinched....It has seen duty in a 2001 mercedes, 2006 Jeep srt, 2008 Pontiac G8GT, and now in my 2013 SRT Jeep. I have had it sealed, ported, fiberglassed, rear firing, up firing down firing, corner loaded, board loaded in MDF, Baltic Birch, etc...

It used to have a twin brother but he had to go since I did not need him. 

Simply put, I never would have imagined that this sub would have made it this far. 

Clean, powerful, musical, rugged, versatile and dependable.

What more could u ask for?

I do wish it were lighter and had less depth though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

yogegoy said:


> Now I'm wondering why you would call your sub an oval shaped when my subs aren't?


UL12's....Those are like golden unicorns..

How do you like them? I did a side by side with my 13w7 once.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

After trying more subs, I almost want to change my vote. 

After running the IDMax 15 for a few months I'm not sure about my favorite from this list anymore. I still think the 10" and 12" versions of the Max do not compete with the W7 in sound quality but the 15", WOW. I won't throw out a bunch of adjectives that everyone has heard a million times but in my opinion the Max 15 is fair competition for the W7 and it has slightly more output potential than the 13W7 and slightly more than three Esotars if sealed or IB. 

The Esotar is still my favorite but the Max 15 is right there. It's interesting how a pretty basic sub with no exotic technology can sound this good while also having such huge linear throw and nearly 4" total throw. No shorting rings or exotic motor technology. A standard pressed paper cone with aluminum dust cap. A tall rubber surround, no exotic cooling technology other than a long coil, but it sounds so damn good on every type of music. I guess it's the sum of the parts working well together. An 11" spider and a surround that supposedly allows 4" of travel. A small/medium diameter vc that should hopefully keep inductance somewhat reasonable while allowing it to handle it's 1200w continuous rating. Supposed long, flat Bl curve. Nothing that special but no glaring weaknesses either. 

If I could vote again I would probably pick the W7 again but it would have been a much harder decision this time than last time especially considering the Max plays well into the midbass region cleanly and the W7 doesn't. If I had 6.5" midbasses, the Max 15 might have gotten the nod. I'm also surprised that the 15 can sound so much different than the 10 and 12" versions.


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## KyleMDunn (Jan 27, 2009)

I have only heard a handful of these subs - but have owned the Fi Q, W6, and W7. My overall favorite was the W6v2.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Are we limited to subs meant for vehicles? I don't have a clear favorite for car audio subs since I haven't heard many recently. 

But I've got a clear cut favorite for home theater. The SI HS24. HS24 24″ Subwoofer | Stereo Integrity


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## Krank (Dec 2, 2014)

In car audio, assuming I have the space for this behemoth, it is the 13W7.

Love it.


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## frontman (May 1, 2013)

Illusion Audio XL. I would search high and low in the rubble for a SI BM mk IV 12!


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

Audiomobile MASS series


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

nstaln said:


> Audiomobile MASS series


Subslammer RAGE 5000.

I take it you didn't read the OP.


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## Treesive (Aug 29, 2011)

American 5400 since it does everything great


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

^ lol, greatest sub in the whole world!


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

Hoptologist said:


> Subslammer RAGE 5000.
> 
> I take it you didn't read the OP.


Soundsplinter RL-S 15


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

nstaln said:


> Soundsplinter RL-S 15


:dead_horse:


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

Quite honestly, I've only heard the W6 and W7 in person. I've heard some ID's, DD's, and Arc subs before, just not the models listed. 

So, that leaves me to decide between the W6 and W7, which truth be told, the W6 setups sounded better to me than the W7 setup.


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## TheAlchemist9 (Apr 29, 2015)

So if I've got an SI Mag v3, Arc Black 12 v2, and 2 12w6v2's sitting around, I should be building a box for the w6's?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

EcoHawk said:


> So if I've got an SI Mag v3, Arc Black 12 v2, and 2 12w6v2's sitting around, I should be building a box for the w6's?


All of those are great, you can't go wrong with any of them. Each one has it's own advantages. Based solely on sound quality, I would go with the 12W6. But...... only if you can put it in a larger than recommended box or go IB with it. In my experience the W6 sounds good in the recommended sized box but not great. It can be kind of boomy and even slow sounding. In a large box it's smooth, deep, but extremely quick and punchy and accurate. It was the first sub that I could not find a single thing I didn't like on every type of music. It's like it combines the best qualities of every sub I've heard into one sub. 

On the other hand, the SI and Arc might sound better in smaller boxes. I recommend 2.5' or more for the 12W6 for best sound quality and power efficiency. Is IB a possibility?


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## TheAlchemist9 (Apr 29, 2015)

BuickGN said:


> All of those are great, you can't go wrong with any of them. Each one has it's own advantages. Based solely on sound quality, I would go with the 12W6. But...... only if you can put it in a larger than recommended box or go IB with it. In my experience the W6 sounds good in the recommended sized box but not great. It can be kind of boomy and even slow sounding. In a large box it's smooth, deep, but extremely quick and punchy and accurate. It was the first sub that I could not find a single thing I didn't like on every type of music. It's like it combines the best qualities of every sub I've heard into one sub.
> 
> On the other hand, the SI and Arc might sound better in smaller boxes. I recommend 2.5' or more for the 12W6 for best sound quality and power efficiency. Is IB a possibility?


Unfortunately, IB isn't realistic for me since they're going into the cargo area of a Jeep Cherokee and I can't really close it off from the rest of the cabin. Would 2.5 ft^3 be enough for the 12w6's, or should I try to push it to a 3 ft^3 box?


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

I'd go w7, i have 2 10w6 in my car now. and I'm liking them. actually as of now I'm soundless since I'm redoing the la out of my trunk and will be making new enclosures for the subs. 

I've read several times that many guys here get better results from JL subs with larger enclosures than what is suggested in the JL manuals. 

the manual for mine says that each sub should get .625ft, should i just go up to a good .75 and call it a day?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

vwjmkv said:


> I'd go w7, i have 2 10w6 in my car now. and I'm liking them. actually as of now I'm soundless since I'm redoing the la out of my trunk and will be making new enclosures for the subs.
> 
> I've read several times that many guys here get better results from JL subs with larger enclosures than what is suggested in the JL manuals.
> 
> the manual for mine says that each sub should get .625ft, should i just go up to a good .75 and call it a day?


it'll reduce the amount of free bass bump, but sonics will improve.

I'd go with .75 cubes for a 10" and that's pretty much the normal for today's market.

You may have a bit less power handling capability due to the air spring being a little less, springy, but the increase in SQ should be the deciding factor.

JL errs on the side of caution, because they know that a smaller box will allow the sub to withstand peak power inputs far above the rating, and a larger box is also harder to fit, therefore a smaller box recommendation allows for more subwoofer sales.


fight that, defend your SQ leanings and promote responsible bass consumption.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

It's worth mentioning that along with the reduction in power handling from a larger enclosure comes an equal increase in efficiency so output remains about the same. You lose some of the boost in a range where most don't want or need it and you gain more output in the sub bass region where it's needed most.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

EcoHawk said:


> Unfortunately, IB isn't realistic for me since they're going into the cargo area of a Jeep Cherokee and I can't really close it off from the rest of the cabin. Would 2.5 ft^3 be enough for the 12w6's, or should I try to push it to a 3 ft^3 box?


Is that for one or both? 3 cubes for one would be really nice. 3 cubes for the pair would work ok, better than the factory recommendations would sound. 

You can always do a single 12W6 ported, tuned low, in as large of a box as you can fit. Output will be about the same and you will save space over two sealed subs.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I have been lucky enough to hear all of these subs in great detail except for the Fi Q. Never got the chance to hear one of those. While I do really like the W6 and W7 I prefer the Illusion C12XL. Very tight and clean bass with a very impressive amount of output and the ability to go nice and low. Expensive but a very nice sounding sub.


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

Anybody remember the Crystal Mobile Sound CMP10 circa 1999-2000ish?

Those subs were f**king awesome!! My favorite car audio sub of all time


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

I have a pr of 12's


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