# Sound Deadening



## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Planning on doing this next, but not sure to what extent.

for sure the trunk, maybe the front doors? 

anything else important? concerned about diminishing returns, weight, cost due to not knowing how long i am keeping the car.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Welcome to Sound Deadener Showdown | Sound Deadener Showdown


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

And don't use any roof products, peel and seal, fat mat any petroleum based material they are not effective compared to Dynamat SDS and other brand names being butyl based products.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> And don't use any roof products, peel and seal, fat mat any petroleum based material they are not effective compared to Dynamat SDS and other brand names being butyl based products.


Ok thanks will keep that in mind

What areas should i focus on first/ most important?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Use sds or knukonceptz kolossus.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQToyota said:


> Ok thanks will keep that in mind
> 
> What areas should i focus on first/ most important?



You should read the SDS site

You can get away with 40-50% coverage in the trunk area using SDS or Knu Kolosos tiles and maybe 50%-60% with Dynamat depending on which one you choose. 

Same for the doors, and you want to seal the inner door openings, there are different materials you can use, I used Galvanized roof flash sheet metal and deaden the inside part. $10 does more than 2 doors, they also have aluminum rolls at Lowes and may cost a bit more depending on the size and length you get. 

I deaden the inner door inside part surrounding the area where the speaker is mounted. Put some on the outer door, more on the area facing the rear of the speaker. 


If you decide to use MLV and Closed Cell foam to reduce road noise, no need to use CLD deadener on the floor, maybe some on the area where the sub will be placed. 

On the doors, you may get away with just the foam and MLV velcroed over the inner door and not have to screw sheet metal or plastic over those openings. It is a pain to get it right with MLV on vertical areas and the the panels to fit properly, The SDS site shows how to put MLV on the doors. If you have inner door openings smaller than 4" you can just cover them with Dynamat type deadener, just make sure not to remove the paper on the areas that will not be attached to the door or put aluminum tape behind the sticky area because it is messy. Aluminum tape dresses up the bad looking edges and makes it look cleaner and professional. 

You may want to put some deadener on the door panels also. Here is a video that may help. I am sure you can get more and better advice here, feel free to ask questions and I will try to answer them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8byRObdZb34


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## wrangler (Apr 3, 2011)

I don't want to hijack the thread but was hoping for advice on deadening rattles from the door panel itself.
I've already added B-Quiet to the door and door panel but it still rattles, all beit quite less though...What I find rattles now is the armrest, window/door lock location. Also the door panel is comprised of multiple pieces "plastic riveted" (for a lack of a better term), this is where I think it rattles most. What is the best way to treat these areas. 
I looked at the links in the thread and have learned a lot, however, I may have missed something regarding my concerns. 
As I eliminate rattles I hear more from other areas, this is going to be a game of "cat an mouse"
It's truly amazing the difference deadening does make, the bass from the doors is outstanding, I can only imagine how good some of the seriously deadened doors sound with great speakers!


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

wrangler said:


> I don't want to hijack the thread but was hoping for advice on deadening rattles from the door panel itself.
> ...What I find rattles now is the armrest, window/door lock location. Also the door panel is comprised of multiple pieces "plastic riveted" (for a lack of a better term), this is where I think it rattles most. What is the best way to treat these areas.


CCF with a psa adhesive backing and butyl rubber rope are definitely your friends for these smaller areas…the peel and stick CCF easily wraps around the various lock linkage parts to isolate them from each other and the butyl rubber rope can be rolled and/or pressed in between various panel pieces.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

wrangler said:


> I don't want to hijack the thread but was hoping for advice on deadening rattles from the door panel itself.
> I've already added B-Quiet to the door and door panel but it still rattles, all beit quite less though...What I find rattles now is the armrest, window/door lock location. Also the door panel is comprised of multiple pieces "plastic riveted" (for a lack of a better term), this is where I think it rattles most. What is the best way to treat these areas.
> I looked at the links in the thread and have learned a lot, however, I may have missed something regarding my concerns.
> As I eliminate rattles I hear more from other areas, this is going to be a game of "cat an mouse"
> It's truly amazing the difference deadening does make, the bass from the doors is outstanding, I can only imagine how good some of the seriously deadened doors sound with great speakers!







Yes, some of the door panels have sections where plastic overlaps another area, the CCF in between will help reduce friction as it vibrates. 

Check where the switches mount on the panel, that black plastic resonances and it has some play in some cars, sometimes duct tape or aluminum tape helps to keep areas that snap on the panel secured and in place to prevent vibrations.

A common issue is the door handles

You can easily tap from the outside, with the hand extendeded and listen for possible rattles and find out where the rattles are coming from, or playing music and watching close or even putting your head on the door can help to find the problem areas

To fix the handle rattle, I had to put several layers of CLD and some surrounding the handle area, sometimes the original factory foam that reduces that banging of the handle as you pull it and release it, needs to be removed and something better or a new one used, a few layers of CLD or peel and stick CCF could replace the original one if it's worn.

I try to use use aluminimum tape to cover butyl that can be exposed if possible, the peel stick CCF Ensolite foam from raamaudio is convenient and sticks well.


If you have an 8" or 10" driver on the door and close to 300W per side and you tried the best deadener you can use and extra layers and continue to have those issues, you may need to weld some strong metal bracing on the outer doors if they flex too much and that is causing the rattles


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## wrangler (Apr 3, 2011)

Thanks for the tips.
Would this be effective.
B-Quiet | B-Quiet® Vcomp


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

wrangler said:


> Thanks for the tips.
> Would this be effective.
> B-Quiet | B-Quiet® Vcomp


Sure you are welcome 
That would be a question for TOOSTOOBBORN2FAIL, I do not remember ithat deadenerbeing mentioned that much and if it was, nothing that caught my attention


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

so i guess i will start with the trunk and front doors, most likely wont do more than that because i don't want to remove the interior and weigh the car down any more.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Alrojoca said:


> Sure you are welcome
> That would be a question for TOOSTOOBBORN2FAIL, I do not remember ithat deadenerbeing mentioned that much and if it was, nothing that caught my attention


There's nothing wrong with B-quite products they works excellent. I used maybe 150 SQ ft in my Mustang it made a significant difference. It wasn't the quietest car in town... The adhesive is high quality as well. I have a piece that I put on my driveway 6 years ago and it's survived 6 Canadian winters/summers. I guess I'll have to finally peel it up, it's quite evident that it's not coming off on its own...lol.

As far as noise reduction, the biggest you're every going to notice is quite tires. New car are well deadened from the factory. I just put a new dual exit Cat Back exhaust on my Bro's new Sierra. Loud as hell on the outside, on the inside, not so much...


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

wrangler said:


> Thanks for the tips.
> Would this be effective.
> B-Quiet | B-Quiet® Vcomp


B-quiet is an ok product. Sds and knukonceptz kolossus are better.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> B-quiet is an ok product. Sds and knukonceptz kolossus are better.




I checked and I did not see any testing on that one.

Is it butyl based, similar better or worse than Dynamat or SS?

thanks


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Alrojoca said:


> I checked and I did not see any testing on that one.
> 
> Is it butyl based, similar better or worse than Dynamat or SS?
> 
> thanks


knu kollosus was the best performing one by a slim margin over sds from what i remember. but sds is cheaper


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> knu kollosus was the best performing one by a slim margin over sds from what i remember. but sds is cheaper


Yes, Knu is cheaper, but heavy as hell

I was asking about B-quiet.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> knu kollosus was the best performing one by a slim margin over sds from what i remember. but sds is cheaper


Got it backwards. Sds beat knu by a slim margin, but knu is cheaper. 

I did run a test on b-quiet, I didn't save any screenshots or compare it yet. I've been trying to get the tests finished, then go back and analyse everything. It's running a little quicker that way. So I would put it slightly below dynamat, just based on a quick glance before I saved it and closed it out.


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## chucko58 (Feb 7, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> I checked and I did not see any testing on that one.
> 
> Is it butyl based, similar better or worse than Dynamat or SS?
> 
> thanks


B-Quiet Ultimate is butyl based, B-Quiet Extreme is asphalt based.

I'm in the middle of upgrading the sound deadening in my Mustang, and I can confirm the B-Quiet Ultimate stays well and truly stuck. It's been in there for a few years and it's darned difficult to remove!

I can't say how well it does compared to other products, I have no experience with others.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info about B quiet Chris, mmiller and Chuck

Wrangler,
I guess b quiet is decent, and  you won't need to remove it 
Keep us updated on your rattle issue if possible


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## wrangler (Apr 3, 2011)

Alrojoca said:


> Thanks for the info about B quiet Chris, mmiller and Chuck
> 
> Wrangler,
> I guess b quiet is decent, and you won't need to remove it
> Keep us updated on your rattle issue if possible


Good to know because I've stuck a boat load of it to both front doors and door panels.
I had a few minutes to experiment with the rattles today. I noticed when I press the driver's door panel with both hands and was able to use a knee as well most of the rattles went away, so I wonder If using this product would benefit:
B-Quiet | B-Quiet® Vcomp
There are only 3 screws and all of which are tight. 
Listening closely, it does sound like the small plastic pins that hold the panel in place may be vibrating, I could probably use some butyl rubber rope that was mentioned in an earlier reply to stop this?


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## mmnjtwa (Apr 6, 2015)

Somehow, in all of my research regarding CLD, I never noticed the Knukonceptz performed so well. I ended up going with Stinger Roadkill Expert. So far, I'm happy with the results. Waiting on my Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro to arrive because there's plenty of noise creeping in from the trunk through the 6x9 holes in the rear deck.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

wrangler said:


> Good to know because I've stuck a boat load of it to both front doors and door panels.
> I had a few minutes to experiment with the rattles today. I noticed when I press the driver's door panel with both hands and was able to use a knee as well most of the rattles went away, so I wonder If using this product would benefit:
> B-Quiet | B-Quiet® Vcomp
> There are only 3 screws and all of which are tight.
> Listening closely, it does sound like the small plastic pins that hold the panel in place may be vibrating, I could probably use some butyl rubber rope that was mentioned in an earlier reply to stop this?


If the pins or clips are worn, you may need new ones, if they clip OK then you can put some foam or CCF, some have like a rubber washer that tends to break and fly away the first time they are removed. Adding deadener around that hole or behind the inner door may help reduce the rattles. 








mmnjtwa said:


> Somehow, in all of my research regarding CLD, I never noticed the Knukonceptz performed so well. I ended up going with Stinger Roadkill Expert. So far, I'm happy with the results. Waiting on my Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro to arrive because there's plenty of noise creeping in from the trunk through the 6x9 holes in the rear deck.


I knew just the title of this thread was going to get some heat and attention


Sorry to give you the bad news. Stinger was one of the bottom performers, on the Test Chris did, just above roof products, fat mat and others. 

Top was STP (heavy and asphalt based), SDS (top performer) , Knu Kolosos ( 2nd but better value and less heavy than STP, StP has lighter versions similar to Dynamat is my guess, then Dynamat ( the lightest of all and good performer, SSkin (OK), Alphadamp (same as SSkin, ADamp is no longer in business) B- quiet would probably be after the ones mentioned (OK) , going down the line maybe there might be others before peel and seal roof product and do not remember, Raamat and Stinger would be just better than peel and seal roof and fat mat. 

Sorry I just remember the best 5 and the worst there might some names in between the ones mentioned or product tested months after that may be in the upper level. 

They were tested based on controlling vibrations, that most can do even roof products, but the most important was resonance and response. Maybe Chris can confirm correct or explain it. 


Al


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## mmnjtwa (Apr 6, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> ...
> Sorry to give you the bad news. Stinger was one of the bottom performers, on the Test Chris did, just above roof products, fat mat and others.
> 
> Top was STP (heavy and asphalt based), SDS (top performer) , Knu Kolosos ( 2nd but better value and less heavy than STP, StP has lighter versions similar to Dynamat is my guess, then Dynamat ( the lightest of all and good performer, SSkin (OK), Alphadamp (same as SSkin, ADamp is no longer in business) B- quiet would probably be after the ones mentioned (OK) , going down the line maybe there might be others before peel and seal roof product and do not remember, Raamat and Stinger would be just better than peel and seal roof and fat mat.
> ...


Thanks, but I happened to see the information I needed AFTER I already started to install it. I bought the big box (36sqft) and have plenty left over, as I only did the ~50% coverage so far. I know the Stinger didn't perform very well in the testing, but do you think I'll be fine if I just doubled it up in some spots? I mean, I already have quite a bit remaining, so that should help, right? I just don't feel like spending another $140+ on different product, especially since I just dropped $280 on MLV and the speaker tweaker kit (10% off over $250, and the tweaker kit was $25 and put me right over $250, so it was essentially free.)


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Doubling up wont help, going with more coverage would help more than doubling up. That said, I wouldn't worry about it unless you get it all in and it doesn't end up satisfactory. I certainly wouldn't pull it out for something else unless it doesn't end up working well enough for you.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

My first attempt at deadening this past weekend. I used Knu Kolossus and Rammat. Probably 30-50% inner and 50-60% outer skin coverage. I attached the rammat to the door card and used it to decouple the baffle from the door skin and the speaker. I wanted to make covers for the door holes but for the sake of time ended up just using the black barrier that is shown in pics. It actually has pieces that fit into the hole so figured using that with the tape around it to seal it should be fairly good. I also used Metra baffles and Fast Rings.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

mmnjtwa

Yes, adding more is not going to help, 
If you notice unusual resonances or have issues I can think of:

Putting maybe those foams that hold eggs on the outer door (not water or midew resistant)

Or adding Roxul, sold at lowes, it is mildew water and moisture resistant and has good sound deadeding properties according to the lowes site, a few people have used both here, one member used like some long thick flexible wires and a wire mesh to hold against the the outer door.

You could also sell the leftover stinger roadkill in another forum or craigslist and put that towards anything you may need to add to the doors if you discover issues and decide to fix 
them. 

And the speaker tweaker should help with the back wave a bit also, you may not have any issues like TOOTSTUBURN2 said, maybe just EQ may fix any minor issues


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

"what areas should i focus on first/ most important?"

I found MLV/CCF on the firewall to be quite effective, next I'm going to try the same products in the wheel wells...working out a strategy for that now.

My nephew just came out of the armed forces and knowing I am interested in vehicle sound control he brought home a small sample of a damping product I've never seen before. It's 12mm thick with a consistency between butyl and heavy rubberized foam. This stuff works!

I'll post a photo tomorrow. I'm trying to find out what it is called and if it's available. Ring a bell for anyone?


D.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Anyone ever find a deal on knukonceptz kolossus. I was following the TSTF sound deadening thread and saw STP scored well and went off half cocked and ordered some. Turns out they don't import the good stuff any more and what I ordered is not impressing me. I ordered the extreme black 80 mil. I called and talked to the owner of the US distribution but sounded like they will not be bringing it back.


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## jb4674 (Jan 29, 2015)

Does anyone know where in the totem pole hushmat ultra rated within the deadening thread?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Here is some spread sheet showing some specs, weight, type, price, foil thickness etc.

That STP bomb is 3 times heavier than Dynamat xtreme , Knu kol 2/3 lighter Than STP bomb, twice as heavy as Dynamat, B- quiet surprisingly lighter than Dynamat but it's asphalt based. Stinger very heavy and too bad near the bottom with response and resonance.

No hushmat here, I don't rembember if it was tested after this sheet was created, there are like 3 versions of STP, products 

Other names on the list that, no clue or remember how they did on the waterfall resonance response charts

SDS not listed there, no clue why unless I missed it

Have fun looking at it

This list was not created by the person doing the testing. Just another nice member that took the time to create it


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

jb4674 said:


> Does anyone know where in the totem pole hushmat ultra rated within the deadening thread?


Not sure, but my brother used some in the trunk and worked pretty well


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## mmnjtwa (Apr 6, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Here is some spread sheet showing some specs, weight, type, price, foil thickness etc.
> 
> That STP bomb is 3 times heavier than Dynamat xtreme , Knu kol 2/3 lighter Than STP bomb, twice as heavy as Dynamat, B- quiet surprisingly lighter than Dynamat but it's asphalt based. Stinger very heavy and too bad near the bottom with response and resonance.
> 
> ...


Seems to be only in order of pricing. Doesn't really have much value in the sense of comparing effectiveness.

Would I benefit from buying a small amount of a better product and applying some to areas along with the Roadkill? Or would that still be along the lines of diminishing returns? I'm definitely not going to attempt to remove any of the Stinger product that I've already applied. 

I will say that I am not displeased with the job my current CLD has done, although I don't have anything to compare it to, as I installed the CLD before installing my new system. 

I am excited to be getting my Luxury Liner Pro in on Thursday. The CLD, along with MLV and CCF should make things much nicer in the car. I will be doing some tests before and after the LLP install using the "SPL sound meter" app that I downloaded on my phone. Going to do some road tests and measure how much outside noise I can block while inside my dad's shop. I'll try to log everything neatly and post the results on the forum when I have completed it.


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## mmnjtwa (Apr 6, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> mmnjtwa
> 
> Yes, adding more is not going to help,
> If you notice unusual resonances or have issues I can think of:
> ...


That's what I was afraid of.  I really wish I would have seen this before purchasing. Luckily, though, I don't notice any issues. As I mentioned, I have the Luxury Liner Pro arriving in a few days. I have '11 Inifiniti G37S coupe, and it is fairly well insulated. Whatever is left over from lining the trunk, I will use on the front doors.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

CLD will change the sound, sometimes in strange ways, I remember adding extra to my doors, a double layer behind the door speaker and I felt I lost bass, same with the rear wall when the sub was placed against it, just a single layer seemed to kill the deeper bass, maybe because it increased the midbass, or the opposite, deeper bass overtook my midbass, and I had to EQ and tune to hear what I wanted.

I was fortunate to take upgrades in steps, to notice the changes. 

That picture besides prices on the right columns it shows, weight, thickness and types. 
Metal showed at 97-98 db
The peel and seal showed no difference as metal 97-98 db
Stinger R kill showed 91db cuttting about 6-7 dbs compared to metal 
The best ones went from 87 dbs down to 81 db's


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## Iamsmuts (May 24, 2015)

I ordered the 2 door kit of Kno Knoise Kolossus. They give you 14 square feet for about $60. This stuff is heavy! I used 3 of the 7 sheets for my front doors. I don't understand why they give you so much for just 2 doors. CLD is just for vibration control. You only need to cover 25% or so. I covered 30%+ and used some claylike gasket seal shoved between the metal and the horizontal bars. My doors feel solid. I could do all four doors and the hatch with 14 square feet.

I did my rear doors and hatch with butyl flashing tape and thick, foil Nashau cold weather tape from Home Depot. I'm not sure which was more effective. CLD just doesn't do that much. My pseudo CLD stopped a lot of the irritating vibrations. But that's about it.

A single Home Depot MLV layer did wonders for my doors. Sealing them stopped the rear waves and the strange harmonics. But MLV and a bit of CCF did the most for sound deadening.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Something almost no one does is measure before and after deadening, and it's a shame. What you really want to look at is before and after waterfall plots. I believe it was therapture that posted before and after plots when he deadened his roof, and there was a huge reduction in the amount of time it took for sound to decay. And that was with a very low performing product. 

I would even put this as more important than the absolute amplitude reduction of vibration.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Second Skin Insulation 

Get a high quality butyl rubber product like Second Skins 100% American made Damplifier/Damplifier Pro with no asphalt/tar fillers. Less quantity of a higher quality product is much better than layers of a low quality product. 

Here is a video showing you what using a low quality sound deadener will do to your vehicle.....check it out here


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

looking to buy some soon, what would you recommend for lightweight but sill effectiveness is more important. i was thinking dynamat xtreme? damp pro?

planning on just the front doors and trunk for now, also how much do i need for a smallish/medium car


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

SQToyota said:


> looking to buy some soon, what would you recommend for lightweight but sill effectiveness is more important. i was thinking dynamat xtreme? damp pro?
> 
> planning on just the front doors and trunk for now, also how much do i need for a smallish/medium car


Just looking for CLD(peel & stick)? If you were thinking about MLV, this might interest you; http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/175028-mlv-1-8-4-feet-wide-rolls.html
Rarely do you get a chance to avoid shipping(buzzkill).


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

SHAGGS said:


> Just looking for CLD(peel & stick)? If you were thinking about MLV, this might interest you; http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/175028-mlv-1-8-4-feet-wide-rolls.html
> Rarely do you get a chance to avoid shipping(buzzkill).


honestly not sure. i guess i really dont care as long as it works well, weight and effectiveness is all i really care about. this is my first time doing this, so i guess opinions on what type of deadener to use, benefits and negative to using either?


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

SQToyota said:


> honestly not sure. i guess i really dont care as long as it works well, weight and effectiveness is all i really care about. this is my first time doing this, so i guess opinions on what type of deadener to use, benefits and negative to using either?


Well, they both serve different and important purposes, so ideally you would use a combination of both. 
The CDL is for vibration/resonance dampening. 
Kno Knoise - Resonance Control
It's peel and stick to the metal inner door skin. 25-40% panel coverage should do it.
It deadens the panels so they don't buzz with the music.
The MLV I linked is cut to cover the door/floor (under the interior panels) and blocks road noise.
The thing about the MLV I linked is it's pretty heavy, and shipping is usually quite expensive.
You can buy it online several places, but I noticed you were in the Bay area, and remembered the ad, for local pick-up only, and figured it would save you some bucks on shipping, if you were interested. 

Hope this helps.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

SHAGGS said:


> Well, they both serve different and important purposes, so ideally you would use a combination of both.
> The CDL is for vibration/resonance dampening.
> Kno Knoise - Resonance Control
> It's peel and stick to the metal inner door skin. 25-40% panel coverage should do it.
> ...


yes it does. thanks. so let me verify i understand. the best way to do this is to use cdl on the insdie of the door(about 40%) to the metal closest to the outside. then use mlv to cover the inside of the door.

how about trunk coverage?


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

The CDL will definitely help keep the rattles down in the trunk. 
I would start with MLV on the doors. If you have extra, you can start adding it where ever. 
Maybe start with the firewall or floor, if you're completely removing the interior.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

SHAGGS said:


> The CDL will definitely help keep the rattles down in the trunk.
> I would start with MLV on the doors. If you have extra, you can start adding it where ever.
> Maybe start with the firewall or floor, if you're completely removing the interior.


cool thanks. i think ill just be doing the front doors and trunk for now. still have to get a dsp

here is what the inside of my door looks like/ looks like it should be easy other than the big holes. whats best to cover them?
http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/...la-Interior-Door-Panel-Removal-Guide-025.html

I like whatever that guy used in that video on the first page. The links are all in Russian. Dont think i want to do sheet metal


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SQToyota said:


> looking to buy some soon, what would you recommend for lightweight but sill effectiveness is more important. i was thinking dynamat xtreme? damp pro?
> 
> planning on just the front doors and trunk for now, also how much do i need for a smallish/medium car


Damplifier Regular performs as well as Dynamat Xtreme, Damplifier Pro 2mm has twice as thick Butyl Rubber as Damplifier's 1mm. If you order our Audio Door Kit you will recieve enough product to do both front doors and will get great results, Second Skins Audio Door Kit can be found Audio Door Kit - Door Pack, Speaker Tweaker Set of 2, 2 Sheets oKP, 1CSA, 1WHR - Second Skin Audio


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> Damplifier Regular performs as well as Dynamat Xtreme, Damplifier Pro 2mm has twice as thick Butyl Rubber as Damplifier's 1mm. If you order our Audio Door Kit you will recieve enough product to do both front doors and will get great results, Second Skins Audio Door Kit can be found Audio Door Kit - Door Pack, Speaker Tweaker Set of 2, 2 Sheets oKP, 1CSA, 1WHR - Second Skin Audio



Can you provide independent testing to confirm this?


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Second Skin said:


> Damplifier Regular performs as well as Dynamat Xtreme, Damplifier Pro 2mm has twice as thick Butyl Rubber as Damplifier's 1mm. If you order our Audio Door Kit you will recieve enough product to do both front doors and will get great results, Second Skins Audio Door Kit can be found Audio Door Kit - Door Pack, Speaker Tweaker Set of 2, 2 Sheets oKP, 1CSA, 1WHR - Second Skin Audio


May get that. Just wish it was mlv instead of foam.but i like the fact that it will be much lighter. Any opinions on it?

But still have to get something to cover the 3 big holes


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SQToyota said:


> May get that. Just wish it was mlv instead of foam.but i like the fact that it will be much lighter. Any opinions on it?
> 
> But still have to get something to cover the 3 big holes


You are correct it would be better to have our Luxury Liner Pro on top of the Damplifier/D Pro but the Over Kill Pro is still a high quality closed cell foam that weighs a quarter of what LLP weighs (2lbs vs 9 lbs per 9sqft sheet). If you wanted to add the vinyl part of the MLV to the Door Kit one sheet of Luxury Liner (not Pro) will be enough raw vinyl to give you the barrier part of the MLV. Luxury Liner and Over Kill Pro are actually the 2 products that were used together before Mass Loaded Vinyl was ever made, many companies still do it this way (applying CCF and Raw Vinyl to create a MLV layer) were we already have it infused into one product as Luxury Liner Pro.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL 
As you know Second Skin has been a high quality manufacturer of 100% American made products with no asphalt/tar fillers for over 15 years in the industry. There have been plenty of independent tests done on many forums including this one with our products and our competitors, so if you want to find some just do some research and surf the net. Also by the tremendously favorable reviews you can see throughout our sites and other independent sites, you can see that for over 15 years on the internet we have stood for customer service and satisfaction to the highest degree. You are more than welcome to purchase some of our products and perform your own tests and we assure you our products will stand up to any other products on the market. 

Second Skin, Second To None!!!


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

BTW here is a simple test of one of our competitors that uses fillers, this competitor is on your list of products that tested good on this forum also.....No we will not divulge the name of the competitor as we don't knock our competition to get sales...we just state/show facts and let the customers make an informed decision. Good luck with your projects and have a great day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viZ4Pvb0KFc


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I asked because I have done my own tests, on this forum, and found dynamat xtreme to consistantly perform just a tiny bit better than damplifier pro. I haven't tested regular damplifier, but I have to assume damplifier pro performs better. The tests are in the cld testing thread on this site, I'm on my phone so ill have to look for them later or tomorrow afternoon.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL We have seen your very lengthy thread over a very vast time period, thank you for the work you do to help inform car audio builders throughout the forums. All test, tester, testing conditions are different and we thank you for your input about our Damplifier Pro. It has been our experience that our regular 1mm version performs at the same level as Xtreme's 1.5 mm version.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah I have been wondering if the Dynamat xtreme light version was worth testing but the Dynamat xtreme regular is extremely light already compared to the top CLD deadeners.
So I figured the lighter version was not worth testing

And thanks Shaggs for mentioning the MLV


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

Alrojoca said:


> And thanks Shaggs for mentioning the MLV


No prob. Just trying to help out.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Why hasn't anyone tried O'Henrys, or Tropical roofing material?
I bet a bunch of these brands rebrand in the audio industry, but the MFG is out of the roofing.
...All very good for roofs and somewhat easy to apply where needed


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Why hasn't anyone tried O'Henrys, or Tropical roofing material?
> I bet a bunch of these brands rebrand in the audio industry, but the MFG is out of the roofing.
> ...All very good for roofs and somewhat easy to apply where needed


:lurk::lurk:…gonna need a lot of popcorn!!

I am strapped in for this one…LOL, but first, aside from the fact that asphalt based products don't work near as well as butyl based products for sound deadening, do you REALLY want the inside of your car smelling like Henry's roofing compound forever just to save a few bucks???


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

Actually, I believe TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said that the top performer in deadening was actually asphalt based, but because of such, it's heat tolerance was very questionable and he couldn't in good faith recommend it over similarly performing butyl based deaders.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

And if I remember correctly, that one is either no longer being made or available here in the 
US. Besides being about 2 to 4 times heavier than car Deadeners and it had just marginal better performance over the top 2 car deadeners


What people may need to understand, it is not just about reducing rattles, but also resonaces and improve the midbass response, something peel and seal can't do with 100% coverage versus 25% coverage from the top CLD brands tested.

Easy choice and economics besides the smell and risk of peeling off or making a mess not worth dealing with


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

OK, here is a succinct post from Don at SDS, who was one of the first people to start testing sound deadening products for vehicle use. His CLD is still one of the top performers even according to TSTF testing thread.

Why Not Asphalt? - Sound Deadening - SSA Car Audio Forum


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I did ask about it with a very slight tongue in cheek regarding the OHenry...BUT, as mentioned the hard to reach spots would be ideal...BTW, the smell does go away once its all hardened up. So with asphalt being the TOP performer with ease of use and TEMPorary smell being the short comings...Your popcorn might get stale before you get a chance to eat it.

All tests aside from Don, and all else we can respect of these test results the main reason anyone in the biz, or hiring out of the biz for testing has 1 main objective, its to sell you something that can cost .07 cents to produce and put it in a market that only the luxury would need, and rebrand and surely improve or refine so they can sell it at 1000% the cost.

Anyone have some prices...preferably by weight on the ....say the SDS or Knu?

These look like the performers from TooStubb, Which I took the time to read , not all, but a lot of it. I didn't get to the actual results and comparisons, but I enjoyed his approach to it and the methodology involving the process and testing. 

So ...if the Knu stuff as mentioned here by TooStubb is the best bang for the buck, I'd like to know the next butyl and asphalt based brand(did you say there are none producing in asphalt?), and both the pricing on them. 

Then we can get an idea of performance vs cost vs smell


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Okay, maybe 10 layers of peel and seal to do what one layer of SDS, Knu or Dynamat like they link says maybe is an exaggeration, 5 -7 maybe 

Assuming 1 SF of peel and seal is 99 cents, and 1 SF of Knu kol or SDS is $6.00

Knowing only 25% coverage is needed with Knu or SDS or the top 5 car CLD's tested, I hope the debate ends with that.

There might be some roo products made of butyl or combination of other things that make work but they still will have some asphalt product on it done by TOOTST


Phil 
On page 2 of this thread I posted a pic with some spread sheet, pricing weight, type, aluminum layer thickness etc, that was created by another member based on the info available on the test.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thanks! I'll check it out...I was a bit out of it after trying to follow reading 15 pages of test preparation!


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

btw, do you know what they spray a car in manufacturing when its bare...the bottom and underside? ;-)


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I would not be surprised it's some asphalt based product, being under the car, no smell issues. 
I have no experience with that, I'm sure it helps in many ways, I imagine if rocks hit the bottom the metal will sound loud, and some of that coating will reduce the sound effect.
Road noise is questionable or very marginal I would think, they would not use it if it did not help, even under the seats they use some hard textured plastic, I have never paid attention to what it is different brands use different materials inside.

Good MLV ( massive loaded vinyl) is 1 lb/sf that is dense being 1/8" thick using that over some decoupling material like closed cell foam will reduce road noise, road noise not being blocked by butyl deadener, others are using lead sheets, thinner and heavier in some cases, it's just expensive as it is and if not found locally adding shipping it costs even more.
Al


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Stp Atlantic bomb, and silent coat bi-layer are both technically ranked above sds and knu kolossus. BUT, I don't have confidence either would last used on the roof or doors of a car in socal, or anywhere else it gets hot.

The next best performing asphalt is the really thick gtmat asphalt product, I think it's 110mil thick. It also won't stay stuck in high heat climates.

There definitely is 1 or 2 rebadged roofing products out there, but the last person that accused that company of such, was threatened to prove it in court. Being that I can't afford a spectrum analysis, I'll have to leave that one alone.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

hehehe...NICE!!!

so I guess that popcorn is gonna go stale quicker than you expected!

In Socal we get 110 every year, but it never melts any material to a drip or anything. Stuff like tropical stays on strong...which is some of the better roofing material..Tropical 589! 

But maybe I should consider the STP Atlantic and the Silent coat BiLayer...or the Knu Kolossus, or SDS.

How much is reasonable for a install to do such product on my front and rear doors?
Whats a fair price? and if I had the product myselff, what would it cost to do with me installing it?

Thanks for your feedback, all and TooStubb.
Is there a link to your test results...I read way too much in the making, but with no end result


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

The question how much I need can get in to a lot more questions like how to do other things also. 25-35% coverage, outer door takes the most, inner door not so much unless you use CLD to cover openings on the inner door, holes smaller than 4" iare easier to cover them with CLD, larger ones, it's another issue and many different methods and material choices are available. Check the links below. 

The door panels should have some Pieces also, every door is different and door sizes very, measure or get some door kits and figure out if that gives you enough for the minimum coverage 


Here are some links I think this may help the OP also since he is getting MLV

Doors | Sound Deadener Showdown


This one is a more extreme effective method, posted many times in other threads 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EXuHlBy4M


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I believe results start on page 9-16 of the thread, that said, I'm still working on the rest, but don't plan all posting anything up until it's all finished. I have a LOT on my plate right now and it's much quicker for me to test, then go back and sort the results all at once.

You will notice that while stp and bi-layer outperform sds and knu, they don't outperform them by huge margins. The other thing to think about with heat, is that even if they don't melt off, asphalt do have a lower heat resistance, which negatively effects performance at higher temps. For instance, sds will likely damp vibration better in the hot socal summer than the asphalt products, as it's a more stable material at high temps.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Make sure you have a whole day available to deaden the doors, it could take up to 5 hours per door for a first timer.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Alrojoca said:


> And if I remember correctly, that one is either no longer being made or available here in the
> US. Besides being about 2 to 4 times heavier than car Deadeners and it had just marginal better performance over the top 2 car deadeners
> 
> 
> ...


Great Advice and knowledge :beerchug:


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Why hasn't anyone tried O'Henrys, or Tropical roofing material?
> I bet a bunch of these brands rebrand in the audio industry, but the MFG is out of the roofing.
> ...All very good for roofs and somewhat easy to apply where needed


he did test it. peel and seal literally had NO noticeable effect


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Stp Atlantic bomb, and silent coat bi-layer are both technically ranked above sds and knu kolossus. BUT, I don't have confidence either would last used on the roof or doors of a car in socal, or anywhere else it gets hot.
> 
> The next best performing asphalt is the really thick gtmat asphalt product, I think it's 110mil thick. It also won't stay stuck in high heat climates.
> 
> There definitely is 1 or 2 rebadged roofing products out there, but the last person that accused that company of such, was threatened to prove it in court. Being that I can't afford a spectrum analysis, I'll have to leave that one alone.


any hints? i think i know exactly which company your talking about. i remember they came here and signed up as a vendor and sent a few people some samples and it turned out their constraining layer was some type of plastic painted to resemble aluminum.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

That's not the one I was talking about. But they did the same thing, although they had some made to their thickness specs. It did turn out to be actual aluminum, just super thin with a plastic coating on it. Same thing as knukonceptz did, except theirs performs excellently. 

The one I'm talking about is literally peel n seal with a logo on it. Same density, thickness of constraining layer, performance, thickness, etc.


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## mmnjtwa (Apr 6, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Make sure you have a whole day available to deaden the doors, it could take up to 5 hours per door for a first timer.


For CLD, MLV, CCF, or all of it?

I already did the CLD on the majority of my car. I laid down the Luxury Liner Pro on the trunk floor, and need to do the doors and rear quarter panels next. I plan to attach the LLP to the door cards. Is it recommended to just use a strong Velcro? I don't think the glue will be strong enough to hold it, but I could be incorrect.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

mmnjtwa said:


> For CLD, MLV, CCF, or all of it?
> 
> I already did the CLD on the majority of my car. I laid down the Luxury Liner Pro on the trunk floor, and need to do the doors and rear quarter panels next. I plan to attach the LLP to the door cards. Is it recommended to just use a strong Velcro? I don't think the glue will be strong enough to hold it, but I could be incorrect.


CLD plus covering and sealing holes 2-3 hours each 

CCF and MLV maybe 2 hrs per door, a lot of improvising is needed sometimes you may get lucky. 

Velcro is better, I used zero Velcro for the CCF, I simply used existing brackets and plugs to hold the CCF in place, and the MLV I simply placed it on the door card then I mounted the door card with the MLV on the door, no Velcro.

But in my case the doors were smooth near flat with no big gaps, and in some areas I had to double up on the CCF just to fill the gaps. It's different, I do not suggest it, just sharing a different way to do it and if this method is used, the inner door openings need to be covered with something else, otherwise you will have air gaps and the openings will not be sealed as they would be using Velcro and stretching the layerrs from top to bottom.

Time flies when you stop and think about how to do it or deciding how, before you start doing it. It's good to plan and have all tools needed, you can easily blow another hour going back to the garage searching for tools, tapes, glues etc.

A roll of 3m aluminum tape is a must have on the list, it dresses up CLD messes and can be used to tape CCF to the doors and door cards or CCF overlaps and joints, good special bundling electrical tape 1.5-2" wide can also be used for CCF.


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## mmnjtwa (Apr 6, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> CLD plus covering and sealing holes 2-3 hours each
> 
> CCF and MLV maybe 2 hrs per door, a lot of improvising is needed sometimes you may get lucky.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

My CLD is already on; I installed it a few weeks ago. My doors had no holes, so things were pretty easy and straight forward. 

I need to check, but the door panels should be relatively flat. I'm hoping things are easy. I have the Luxury Liner Pro, so the CCF and MLV are one piece, so I will have to figure out the best route.


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## digdug18 (Feb 14, 2010)

How do these products stack up against the various liquid dampeners available on the market?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Liquid dampers don't damp vibration as well, as there is no constraining layer. And it doesn't block sound like mlv as it's not dense enough.


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## digdug18 (Feb 14, 2010)

Would you recommend a liquid dampener in addition to a MLV? I ask because I bought some to use with a ceramic liquid as well, for the roof, transmission tunnel, etc.

Andrew


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## bobmirko (Jun 4, 2015)

I used Reflectix with can glue instead of liquid dampener with good result.


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## bobmirko (Jun 4, 2015)

If you can, you can also add a layer of Ultra touch radiant barrier. Combining material help a lot.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Reflectix having good results gives me some hope. I was looking for a way to not spend another $120-150 for 35 or so sq ft of deader like the Knu Kolosus stuff.

I did see this for about $60 / Noico 80 Mil
Was it in the tests?

After getting everything together for the install this is the last part I have not purchased, and you know what happens when your buying the last thing...funds get thinner! 

So what are my best options for the doors? I guess I don't expect to use the top stuff like Kolosus, but I would say about $100. 

*
If the performance difference is considerably high for a $60, 100, product vs the Knu Kolosus for about $140, I would have to reconsider.*


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## bobmirko (Jun 4, 2015)

Noico is good


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

There is no objective data around that says noico is good. It could be and it could be junk. They don't publish anything other than their "competition champions" that use it, which means absolutely nothing. There are national/world champions that have used damping products that have proven to be subpar.


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## bobmirko (Jun 4, 2015)

I used the Noico 80 mil and it's almost the same as the FatMat 80 mil. I can tell that the Noico cut the metal vibration a bit more than the FatMat. The FatMat on the other hand cut a bit better the outside sound. The Noico is more flexible too. Hope this help.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Unfortunately, it helps add to the idea that noico is junk, because fatmat is junk. It performs horribly in objective tests. Fatmat doesn't come anywhere close to the performance of low end products like stinger roadkill expert, let alone midrange products like dynamat and top end products like kolossus.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

So any help with my post#83 ?

Something under 100 for a 35-40sqft pack?

Now the different makes are using numbers marketing...1 offers more like 40, the other 35, the next 36 sqft..


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Noico was not in the test. Testing is still going, but I have all the products I'll be testing. It's also on temporary hold as starting this week I'm working 12 hour days again, 5 days a week as were severely short people at work. 

That said, having seen someone compare it to anything from fatmat discourages me from wanting anything to do with it. If it is indeed comparable to fatmat, kolossus will be night and day better than it.

If noico does perform like fatmat products, I would never recommend it for anyone ever, under any circumstance, just like I dont with fatmat.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

If the others are showing such a boost in performance, you have to ask yourself how these shops put elaborate systems together using those inferior products? I guess they just don't know and didn't do any testing of their own, even on a couple brands they might have wanted to carry.

It degrades the store's reputation.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Very little real testing has been done. Many companies use butyl rubber compositions that aren't even made for damping vibration just to get a chunk of the business, and use catchy phrases to sell people on it. Many competitors also look at it as something that's not as important as other things, so it gets knocked down on the budget list. And there still isn't a whole lot of education on the subject, which is why I wanted to test in the first place. 

There is a world champion that used 2 full coverage layers of raamat bxt2. Yet, testing has shown that a second layer does pretty much nothing, as the second layer is just adding weight (which is an inefficient way to reduce vibration), and it only has a damping effect on the first layer of bxt2. The only layer that has a damping effect on the metal is the damping layer attached directly to it. On top of that, bxt2 was one of the lower performing products. A single layer of Kolossus would have performed significantly better. In fact a 50% coverage layer of Kolossus would have likely performed as well.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

So happy you are doing such a test. But I think I may have to hold off my install for results to show a $100 or under deadener, as I am trying to avoid another $140 for the 35sf of Kolosus...besides I don't even know if it would cover 4 Toyota Highlander doors. Didn't realize how much I value $40 Iguess..lol...I may as well just get the darn Kolosus!

One thing for sure, I was driving with the panel in the rear door off, and the amount of road noise alone that the panels keep out is amazing. Anything to help it is a plus. Speaking of which, what material and holding power do people use to close off the holes that are in odd shapes?


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

digdug18 said:


> How do these products stack up against the various liquid dampeners available on the market?


At Second Skin we would say that high quality American made liquid sound deadeners like Spectrum perform as good and in some situations better as they can be built up to a 3mm thickness which adds great benefit on some projects with extreme vibration. We have also heard great things about Lizard Skin, ours is a water based product and theirs is a 2 part epoxy system I believe but the undercoating sound deadening does a great job of absorbing vibration noise in the wheel wells and our Firewall product with Ceramic spheres and glass beads does a great job of absorbing heat transfer of up to 800 degrees through walls from large engines, trans, or exhausts all while still absorbing vibration noise. The liquids do not have the constraint layer as noted by other users because they have no foil, but they definitely have there place in the sound deadening industry.

Here is a link to our liquid products Kill automotive vibrations with Spectrumâ„¢ & Spectrum Sludgeâ„¢ | Second Skin Audio, Made in the USA.

Keep asking great questions and these forum members will continue to give you great quality information and hopefully you can find products and approaches for your project that make you have a successful build. 

An informed buyer is always a happy customer no matter what brand they decide to use. 

Good Luck and have a great day.


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

This is not my thread so feel free to ignore this but by way of background I have followed/participated in the threads on damping/testing and find them an interesting/valuable resouce. 

What I don't find valuable is the pimping by vendors in these otherwize excellent threads, I understand vendors wanting to get information about their products out in a target rich thread and/or defending said products from a review that might cost the vendor sales but IMO if you want to do that you should start your own thread and not clutter/bloat what are otherwize helpful/informative threads.

Just my .02


D.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I agree. +1.

If you did testing, post your testing methods and numbers and the brands you tested with. that is the only useful info. Or drop Toostubborn a $million, a career op, a lifetime of dinners at French Laundry, or Nobu Sushi or something.... and he might have a change of heart, and all a sudden he may realize he had made an error and he sees how your product is now very good, and worth considering. 

JK...so has the SecSkin been tested yet?


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Donanon said:


> This is not my thread so feel free to ignore this but by way of background I have followed/participated in the threads on damping/testing and find them an interesting/valuable resource.
> 
> What I don't find valuable is the pimping by vendors in these otherwise excellent threads, I understand vendors wanting to get information about their products out in a target rich thread and/or defending said products from a review that might cost the vendor sales but IMO if you want to do that you should start your own thread and not clutter/bloat what are otherwise helpful/informative threads.
> 
> ...


Without Vendors who would pay for the cost to run these awesome sources of information that everyone enjoys? ;-) This and most other forums were built and grown by the vendors who are just as passionate about this industry as the customers are. In fact the original owner of Second Skin was the man who built this great forum up to what it is today  A question was asked about liquid products and Second Skin as Partner/Vendor of this forum have the right to help educate the users just as all the other users help educate us all. And with knowledge comes happy customers no matter which product they choose!!! 

Have a great day up there in Canada


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Very little real testing has been done. Many companies use butyl rubber compositions that aren't even made for damping vibration just to get a chunk of the business, and use catchy phrases to sell people on it. Many competitors also look at it as something that's not as important as other things, so it gets knocked down on the budget list. And there still isn't a whole lot of education on the subject, which is why I wanted to test in the first place.
> 
> There is a world champion that used 2 full coverage layers of raamat bxt2. Yet, testing has shown that a second layer does pretty much nothing, as the second layer is just adding weight (which is an inefficient way to reduce vibration), and it only has a damping effect on the first layer of bxt2. The only layer that has a damping effect on the metal is the damping layer attached directly to it. On top of that, bxt2 was one of the lower performing products. A single layer of Kolossus would have performed significantly better. In fact a 50% coverage layer of Kolossus would have likely performed as well.




Great Info.....Less Coverage of a Quality Deadening Product Will Yield Better Results Than More Layers of a Lower Quality Product!!! We've been saying this for 15 years


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

This stuff looks pretty good also...

Reckhorn ABX-tra (28sqft 100mil for $90 shipped) 
They have a 80mil as well.


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## iroller (Dec 11, 2010)

I have eastwood on the front floor and fire wall Im going to use the better stuff on the rest of the car. The question I have is it's been said that a 2nd layer doesn't do much, if I put SDS over the eastwood I still don't improve much because it isn't on the metal, so I need to remove the eastwood ?????????????


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thats what I read , doubling up wont do much for absorption, but for fending off outside noise, that area might help, but not much without the surrounding area done up .


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Instead of fabricating flashing or plastic to cover the large holes on the door pannel, can i just use dynamat on a piece of mlv, seal with epoxy then aluminum tape the edges, or is it worth the hastle to use plastic or flashing, i dont have the tools to cut plastic, i could do flashing but im also worried that will rattle.


Any thoughts or other methods? Since im spending the time to do it right id rather not have to re do anything


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SQToyota said:


> Instead of fabricating flashing or plastic to cover the large holes on the door pannel, can i just use dynamat on a piece of mlv, seal with epoxy then aluminum tape the edges, or is it worth the hastle to use plastic or flashing, i dont have the tools to cut plastic, i could do flashing but im also worried that will rattle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some ideas, maybe others can share some too and you can decide.

You can use CLD to seal the hole, just make sure you do not peel the paper on parts that will not be glued, I would probably seal it from the inside, leaving the paper or butyl side facing the door card, I would probably use horizontal pieces (maybe about 4-5" wide) rather than a single long vertical piece going down. And if you exposed the the butyl adhesive, maybe put some MLV just to fill that space between the metal edges supported by the CLD adhesive butyl side.

Again CLD from the inside, aluminum facing the outer door, then glue a piece of MLV attached to the CLD butyl, then finish the edges with aluminum tape over door and and MLV covering any small gaps assuming the MLV was not cut exactly to conform with the inner door hole, it does not have to be perfect, the tape will cover it and support it or you can use CLD if you prefer. 

If the holes are uneven, any hard material even being flexible will have gaps, big gaps that will need to be either covered with CLD, or filled with some caulk rope or butyl rope since they can be over 1", then either CLD or aluminum tape to seal all the edges around. 

If the openings are smooth or flat it is much easier to cover them and maybe just the CCF and MLV over the holes stretched will do the trick without having to use anything else to close them.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

You can just cut some of the flexible kitchen cutting boards that are designed to bend and roll. They are about 16" x 12".
This I think would make an excellent filler for those holes. They are cheap large and durable. You can also stick them down with any sealing adhesive, or use double sided tape. Whats nice is that you can get it to very close to fit just right.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

ok thanks i think ill do that if i can find them. holes on doors are pretty big so they might not be enough to cover. ill have to see when i have time to take the door panel off and start.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

you can also custom form them with a heat gun. I would also walk the isle of Home Depot to see if there are any larger alternatives.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Here is another method that does not require screwing the sheet on the door


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSiThUz8k64



This should also work on the door, it seems to bend without too much resistance and flexing

Shop Amerimax 14-in x 10-ft Aluminum Roll Flashing for Decks, Chimneys, Skylights, Windows, Roofs, Doors, Vents, Pipes, Gutters, and Egress Windows at Lowes.com


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I personally wouldn't add anything metal or with potential to vibrate. You want dead material, wood, rubber, plastic, etc.
Anything that maybe a good vibe conducter you want to avoid. Any of these materials you can adhere without screws. You can also add clips to the back with screw in the cover material so it pinches in place. 

Its not that you cant use it, but once you introduce something like that, now you need to make sure to have every bit of it against something like the materials I mention.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

The inner metal door thickness and stiffness is always stronger and it will not flex as much, if the sheet metal covering the holes is supported by, silicon, rope caulk, butyl rope or even CLD under it won't rattle, once you add some CLD small tiles to it, and adding the CCF and MLV over will reduce or eliminate flexing.

Many options and choices of materials will do the job, it's just a choice of adding extra weight with heavy wood or dense plastic, the OP did not want to drill use screws or add extra weight, if screws will be used I would put threaded inserts rivets.

Having a 6.5" driver in 1.5-2 s/f of sealed space Is not going to make a huge difference over full open space just covered with CCF and MLV over it. What we want to avoid is sound or air scaping out of the openings and ending on the door panel that may resonate or have some unwanted sound effect
The main focus is more on the baffle, speaker mounting areas, sealing gaps and treating the metal surrounding the speaker while closing and sealing gaps as possible, it is impossible to have a fully sealed door, cables run through, all we can do is do what we can, that's where caulk rope or butyl rope comes handy knowing the perfect scenario is a fully sealed enclosure made just for the speaker that it can only be accomplished with fiber glass and a shallow driver.

http://t.homedepot.com/p/MD-Buildin..._pip1_rr-2-_-NA-_-100353483-_-N&showPLP=false


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

What you suggested works perfectly well Alrojoca. Just having alternate options and what I would prefer. 

The plastic stuff is pretty light weight. Even using eight inch or quarter inch board which can get heavier, but over a couple holes is not bad. Im at the mindset not to introduce things that can resonate. 

So we have
CLD
CCF
MLV

what are all these acronyms?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> What you suggested works perfectly well Alrojoca. Just having alternate options and what I would prefer.
> 
> The plastic stuff is pretty light weight. Even using eight inch or quarter inch board which can get heavier, but over a couple holes is not bad. Im at the mindset not to introduce things that can resonate.
> 
> ...


CLD CLD Tiles™ | Sound Deadener Showdown SDS tiles, SecondSkin damplifier pro, Dynamat xtreme, etc. 

MLV Massive loaded vinyl (dense flexible sound barrier)

CCF Closed cell foam (gasket, separator layer under the MLV)


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thanks!


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## chucko58 (Feb 7, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> MLV Massive loaded vinyl (dense flexible sound barrier)


Nit: It's mass loaded, not massive. Thanks for keeping the good info flowing.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Oh, and here is a link to the boards. Some thicker than others. 
Scissors will cut them as they are kinda rubber soft plastic. 

Amazon.com: MIU Flexible Cutting Board, Set of 5: Kitchen & Dining


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

You can also use these to put them on...

Windscreen Kit 8 Black Stainless Bolts 8 Rubber Well Nuts 8 Nylon Washers | eBay


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Good links 


Here is what these acronyms should mean

CLD 
CASH LOADED DOOR

CCF 
COUNT CASH FAST

MLV 
MONEY LOADED VISION
MONEY LOADED VINYL
MUSIC LESS VIBRATION, 
METAL LIKES VINYL OR METAL LIKES VIBRATING.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

The aforementioned threaded nylon washers can be had at Home Depot.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

they are rubber and dampenIf your gonna get the rubber dampening rivet, they come with the nylon washers. but, yes I think they would have it in.....
"Plumbing 222, pickup! Plumbing!!!!"


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

nice abbreviations Alrojoca


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SQToyota said:


> Instead of fabricating flashing or plastic to cover the large holes on the door pannel, can i just use dynamat on a piece of mlv, seal with epoxy then aluminum tape the edges, or is it worth the hastle to use plastic or flashing, i dont have the tools to cut plastic, i could do flashing but im also worried that will rattle.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts or other methods? Since im spending the time to do it right id rather not have to re do anything


Here's a great video to help you with your door project...good luck with your build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EXuHlBy4M


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

I have some extra ccf, is there a point to put some in the trunk? Under the sub maybe?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> nice abbreviations Alrojoca


Thanks Phil 





SQToyota said:


> I have some extra ccf, is there a point to put some in the trunk? Under the sub maybe?


CCF goes under the MLV. CLD, CCF and MLV is the oder of deadening and soundproofing. 


Al


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Thanks Phil
> 
> 
> 
> ...


all ive seen done is cld in the trunk, thought that was because you just want to reflect the bass to the cabin not to deaden the sound


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

In trunks, the bottom part tends to be the stiffer one and for better results, you apply about 30-40 %, then CCF and MLV. Or no need to apply CLD, you do the knuckle knock test and only treat the areas that sound hollow.


In the old days it was 100% CLD on he bottom and top with no MLV, that is the old way of doing it. That does not cut as much road and exhaust noise as MLV over CCF on the bottom.


The top or trunk door cover, you may want good coverage with CLD , same for the corners next to the tail lights all those areas that when you tap on it, it vibrates or sounds hollow you put CLD tiles on those areas, that will improve the mid bass, reduce flexing and rattles.

Maybe others will disagree, maybe not. That is how I would do trunks. And only CLD on the top trunk door/cover


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Link with example 


Trunk/Hatch Floor, Spare Tire Well | Sound Deadener Showdown

Extra info about trunks.

Trunk Strategies | Sound Deadener Showdown


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Link with example
> 
> 
> Trunk/Hatch Floor, Spare Tire Well | Sound Deadener Showdown
> ...


hmm may need more ccf and mlv then


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Doors first and starting with the trunk could be easier, Or start adding CLD to the trunk lid just to get started. 

5.5 s/f of MLV per door is 11, 20 -21 sf should be enough to do just the bottom of the trunk.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Doors first and starting with the trunk could be easier, Or start adding CLD to the trunk lid just to get started.
> 
> 5.5 s/f of MLV per door is 11, 20 -21 sf should be enough to do just the bottom of the trunk.


Do i put ccf and mlv on the trunk lid also or just cld?

Seems like 25% cld tiles is all i need on the trunk lid unless a lot of sound is coming out, ill probably put cct and mlv on there too. Im kind of not worrying about weight anymore. Car is already much slower. It was pretty quick when i had it stripped of all extra weight but my 1.8L is not too fast anymore lol


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

CLD only on the trunk Lid, and metal near the tail lights any thin metal.

On the bottom, after removing the carpet, panels and spare tire do the knock knucle test and place CLD there, Or spread some 5"X5" or bigger tiles all over the bottom on the trunk, then the closed cell foam and on the top the MLV, you need that H66 glue, or the one one link below someone here in the forum said it works well.

Shop Oatey 16-fl oz Shower Pan Liner Cement at Lowes.com

Just like on that link I posted earlier small pieces MLV overlapping should be glued, then the carpet back on and done. On non flat areas the vinyl has to be cut, like on the spare tire area, sometimes you need to cut small pieces and glue over the gaps.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> CLD only on the trunk Lid, and metal near the tail lights any thin metal.
> 
> On the bottom, after removing the carpet, panels and spare tire do the knock knucle test and place CLD there, Or spread some 5"X5" or bigger tiles all over the bottom on the trunk, then the closed cell foam and on the top the MLV, you need that H66 glue, or the one one link below someone here in the forum said it works well.
> 
> ...


Ok cool thanks


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

some link example I found.
Project Silence - Sound Deadening Install - Club RSX Message Board


If you have the time to go through this section called Build Logs & Project Install Gallery, here in the forum, many pictures with examples from basic to advanced builds


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

What ive done to the trunk lid so far. Will put sme in the holes


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Looking good.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Looking good.


Already used about 4-5 sq ft though. I dont need to cover the holes like the door pannels right? Some dynamat in the holes fine?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Those holes? not unless the sub air is pointing right at them.

It's really up to you, I would treat the outer metal inside the holes if it flexes or if the sound is not solid quick and short when knock on it, that's all.

My own rule, I use CLD to cover holes smaller than 5"x5" if needed, mostly on doors, it's faster and just as effective. 

If you decide to cover those holes, I would still treat, the outer metal inside the hole, all that lid area where the lic plate is tends to be weak and rattles.

If can be critical, I would try to use tiles 4" long or bigger anywhere you place them, besides looking better, it may be more effective. Unless mounting, holding cables or sealing small gaps between panels and other similar situations.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Those holes? not unless the sub air is pointing right at them.
> 
> It's really up to you, I would treat the outer metal inside the holes if it flexes or if the sound is not solid quick and short when knock on it, that's all.
> 
> ...


I tried a few different spots for the sub, havnt had the same output as i did when the sub was very close the the back of the trunk firing toward the licence plate. But sq isnt really about output, but i do like the bass. Maybe i should cover those holes with flashing and cover in cld


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Well, I just did my doors with Kolossus. I put sheets covering the entire outer skin/from inside of course, and then I covered all I could on the skin that faces the inside/door panels, without getting into the window mechanism and such. But each door ate about 2.5 to 3 sheets!

The doors now feel super nice. Heavier, more solid, and super nice feel when you shut them. The KOlossus was pretty easy to work with. Minimal finger cuts, very sticky stuff. My order of 35sqft was about 39 pounds. More than half went to the doors. I'm not sure if MLV with CCFoam will fit under the panels...or how much difference this will make. As of now its almost like having 2 layers of the deadening mat in the doors. I slid them all the way down, and went all the way up close to glass. I think I put 25-30 pounds into the doors! Over 5 square feet in each door!

*I don't even know if what I did is good for the SQ, but the doors are dead!*


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Still have a lot to so but thisbis what i sidn in 2 days


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Looking good, It takes time. What material did you end up using to make those plates to cover the inner door openings?


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Looking good, It takes time. What material did you end up using to make those plates to cover the inner door openings?


Aluminum flashing and sheet metal screws. Works perfect with a layer of cld used double sided foam tape for vibration. Also holds it in place so i can screw them in easy

Most of the small pieces of dynamat are to cover holes in the door


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Now the mlv!


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