# Bad Karma (87 Chevy pickup)



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I decided to go ahead and start a build thread, having read through countless others.

A little back story. I've been into car audio since high school in the late 80's. Yea, back in the heyday  I've had the truck 2 1/2 years or so. When I first got it I put in a JL 13TW5, two used rockford amps, a P500 and P600. I also got a set of Focal KF165's. All in all it isn't too bad of a set. The amps and sub is behind the seats and the focals are in horrendous looking kick panels.


















Other than relocating the head unit to the top of the dash, it sat that way for a while. During that time I had a blown head gasket, which ended up in a complete engine build. A 500hp 383 went in, 3" exhaust, spintech mufflers and a complete rebuild on the trans to handle the pwer. Got that running this past summer. Still need to upgrade the rear end, but so far it is holding together.


















Anyway, I decided I wanted a custom dash to house a full set of Autometer gauges. Spent a lot of time on it, but never did like the way it was turning out. I put it in the truck before finishing as I was going to run it at the midnight drags before the end of the season. Here it is as of today:










The open holes are for the AC ducts when I haven't hooked up yet. From a distance it looks, well, ok I guess. But up close it sucks big time. After doing a WHOLE lot of reading and research over the christmas break, that dash is coming out in prep for a whole new custom one along with all new audio equipment. Yep, the audio bug caught me again.

So, what is going into the truck is an iPad for source, probably a BitOne for processing. The front stage will consist of a set of HAT L3SE, midbass a set of HAT L8's and for sub either a pair of I6SW's or a single I8SW.

I listened to the HAT speakers at a local dealer and holy cow do they sound good. he didn't have the SE speakers in, but I decided to step up anyway.

For the sub, I bought an I6SW just to see what it would do. Built a test box today using the supplied specs (.36 cubic feet) and wow, what an awesome little sub. I'm toying with either putting two of them in the custom dash or in a custom console or even on the doors. Yep, took some measurements and I can get the airspace needed. If anyone is interested, I'll put up a video of it. Watching that little thing move is quite a site.

For amps I'm still on the fence. I'm leaning towards something like the JL HD900 or other 5 channel for space reasons, but I hear the Arc Audio amps are really good, so who knows yet.

The first thing I'll probably do is swap in the bucket seats I bought a few months ago. They came out of a 90 suburban that I picked up for $25 a piece. Then the dash will come out for the new custom one.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Amplifier choice has been made. Buying a set of used Tru amps from another forum member. An S25, S45 and another S45 that currently has a known toroid issue. so as it stands right now the S25 will run the subs and the S45 will run the mids and highs. 

If I get the other 45 working I have a couple options. One would be to run it and the other 45 in a vertical amp scenario. One for each side running its own sub, mid and high. Or if I went with 4 subs, I could do the 25 to two, and the 45's vertical or something like that. In that scenario each sub would get ~250 watts each instead of 125ea.

Either way it should be nice.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

So I picked up an I8SW late last week and built a quick test box this weekend. It obviously has a little more output than the 6.5, requiring a bit less bass boost to achieve the same results.

I plan on building a transmission line enclosure for the 6.5 to see what that is like. Either way, I'm still undecided on which route to take just yet.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

*PWK enclosure*

I got my enclosure design for my I6SW from Pete at PWKDesigns.com. I was halfway expecting a basic transmission line, not unlike the one he built as a test box that he has a video of. I'm not at all unhappy, actually excited that it is something different. This will be part of my center console (well, most of my center console  ) so given the location of the sub I don't think I can have it anyway "viewable". Oh well.


i6sw_enclosure 

Looking at the design, I'm guessing this is not too different than the enclosure that Pete built for Scott's G35 in that it is a ported enclosure firing into another ported enclosure. What is that, a 6th order band-pass?

Here is the FR. I asked for 40hz-60hz, gave him my music prefs and that I really wanted this for a little extra "bump" but not boomy. I have a set of Legatia L8V1's on the way also for bass-midbass duties.


Performance Data


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Got most of it cut up tonight. Here is a camera phone photo of the mockup.


enclosure_mockup

Sub goes in the small cross piece.


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## Lymen (Aug 9, 2011)

Looks awesome


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Sweet, can't wait for your review on the enclosure.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

That's a cool looking enclosure, interested in how it sounds also!


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## 801tC (Jan 22, 2011)

Nice work! Looks good!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Assembled the enclosure last night. Here it is before I put the side on and the back piece. I caulked the inside right after this photo. You will note that I didn't round over the vent panel from the first to the second chamber. The plans did call for that, but I was lazy and this is only a test enclosure for now. The plans also called for a couple of 45* angles where the back piece mounts but I didn't do that either. I will on the final construction however.


test_enclosure_assembly

The side that it is standing on has the vent and is now facing the firewall. The top in this view I made removal so I can take the sub out later on. What I ended up doing was laying a bead of caulk down like I was going to glue it, then put the panel in place and screwed it in on all sides. I then caulked the outside as well. My thinking was that I can just unscrew it and it should come out fairly easy. Maybe slide a razor blade through to cut the bead of caulk. I couldn't think of a better way at the time.

Here is a photo with the completed enclosure next to my previous test box. The previous one is what was recommended in the manual. .32ft^3 tuned to 38hz. 


enclosure_comparison

So, the big question... how does it compare?

Well, I let the glue and caulk cure overnight and put the enclosure in this morning before work. I was rather impatient to say the least. To give a quick background, I had the smaller enclosure in for a couple weeks, alternating between that one and another which housed the I8SW sub. With the engine off and just a little bass boost, both sounded pretty good. With the truck running, well it took more boost to make them noticeable. The problem is that my exhaust is quite loud and I have yet to put in any sound deadening.

So, I took out the 8" this morning, put in the new enclosure, wired it up, set the bass boost back to zero and headed out. Brought up my first song on my iPhone and... Holy Hertz! What a night and day difference. This thing rocked. I had to put in some negative db on the bass boost for the first few songs. It just hit that hard and loud. I was amazed.

In the 20+ minute drive to work I quickly went through a variety of songs just listening to a minute or so of each. The difference was just unbelievable. 

I might also add that when I filled out the form for Pete for the design, I gave him freedom to choose the i6sw or the i8sw and any number of each up to four. I was kind of hoping for dual speakers just so I could get the full power of the amp bridged into 2ohms. He gave me a design for a single 6 and I couldn't be happier. 

Amazing what a purpose built enclosure can do for a given speaker.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Got my Legatia L8s and L3SE's in from Scott. Time to rip out the dash and start working!


legatia_l8s_l3se


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Started work on the drivers side front stage. Here are some mockups:


















I took a big chunk out of the lower dash with the good old sawzall  

While it doesn't look like it in the 2nd pic, there is a bit of an angle on the woofer, but not much. The new dash will come out much further than the stock one did so all of this will be hidden. I could have gotten some more space by moving the L3SE up and making more of a dash/a-pillar pod, but I really want it hidden and not drawing attention to itself.

I still drive this every day to work, hence the temp gauge cluster 

I hope to start glassing this thing this weekend.


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

I have an '85 SWB and have been lurking around these parts for months now, gathering ideas and info. But after seeing this thread I just had to say wow. You're a madman, lol. I am definitely gonna be watching this one. I can't imagine what your dash is gonna look like now.

Regardless, you get an "A" for effort so far.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

85C10 said:


> I have an '85 SWB and have been lurking around these parts for months now, gathering ideas and info. But after seeing this thread I just had to say wow. You're a madman, lol. I am definitely gonna be watching this one. I can't imagine what your dash is gonna look like now.
> 
> Regardless, you get an "A" for effort so far.


THanks 

My first attempt at the dash was basically modifying the original. The concept was ok, but my execution was horrible. Once I decided to get these speakers I thought I go all out with a fully custom dash. The center part will flow into the center console and house a few more gauges, an iPad and whatever else I throw in there. I'll also be converting from a column shift to a floor shift, so that will be on the console as well.

I'll tell ya though, I sat in the truck just staring at the dash for a long time before finally saying screw it, and got the sawzall before I talked myself out of it


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## Mrnurse (Sep 8, 2011)

I saw your post on PWK. I got my design for my two american bass xd65. built the box but have not put it in the car and checked it out yet though. looks good though.


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## oldturd (Oct 31, 2009)

I really like where this is going. Keep up the good work.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Mrnurse said:


> I saw your post on PWK. I got my design for my two american bass xd65. built the box but have not put it in the car and checked it out yet though. looks good though.


I'm sure you'll be happy with it 



oldturd said:


> I really like where this is going. Keep up the good work.


Thank you. I meant to get some of the glassing done this weekend, but I blew off saturday and sunday I spent all day building and enclosure and hooking up a sub in my daughter's car. Wore me out... I'm getting too old to stick my hands up in to tight dashes, snaking wires around and all that. She was thrilled though so that made it all worthwhile.

I have to order some mat, but I have enough to at least get started, which I plan to do tonight after work. I'm getting anxious


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## Mrnurse (Sep 8, 2011)

my czr is a 89 civic sedan. the box will be hung from the rear deck in the trunk. i am looking for someone to fabricate it for me today. then i need to buy my wiring and set it up. and take a listen to it. nice truck by the way!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

So it was busy last week, with most of the work happening this weekend. 

Here is the driver side L3. Pretty ugly looking glasswork, but it works. I'll probably clean it up before too long:









Passenger side. Looks a tad prettier , but the pic is fuzzy. Lousy phone cam 








I need to remove some more metal here as almost half the speaker is blocked when viewed from the driver seat.

Here is a mockup with the L8:









Wrapped:








I used jersey material here and on the driver side L3 pod. Much easier and nicer than trying to use fleece.

The L8 in place:








I still need to reinforce the inside of the enclosure which I'll do when my supplies arrive later this week. I also need to seal off the enclosure to the side of the cab, as it vents into the fender area there. I stuffed some paper towels in the space between the enclosure and the cab and it helped a little, so I'm sure I'm losing some output.

I listened to the L3's without the L8 for a good hour or so. What a difference over my Focal's, even though I was missing basically all my midbass. I also went ahead and hooked up my Tru Tech Steel S45 amp, setting the crossover at ~350hz and up for the L3's and 350hz and down for the L8.

When my supplies come in later this week I'll do the passenger side L8.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Things have changed just a tad. I got good deal on a set of L4SE's, so those will be replacing the L3SE's I did have.










I decided to quick thinking about how I'm going to do the dash and just start actually doing something. SO, the first thing was to break out the sawzall and body saw 










Got it all cut out, stabbed myself in the hand, bled all over the driveway and took a break 

Here you can see a template mockup that I'm going with for the shape of the new dash. Being as this a square body truck, I didn't want to get too "swoopy" or all crazy curves with it. I just didn't think it would go well here. So I looked at some modern truck dashes and based the new one loosely on the newer F-150 style. The Chevy HHR was a close consideration as well. I just didn't like the new Chevy truck dashes.










In that picture it curves back under and meets the console, however I'll actually have it go straight to the console with no curve under, and the rest of the dash will have this template. That will allow me to place the iPad, some extra gauges, switches, etc. in the center piece.

When I removed the kick panels I found this little gem, the factory vent hole is nice a big. I'm going to vent the L8's into this area. The driver side will need to be cut however, and I'm kind of tempted to remove the e-brake as well.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I then decided to make a better fitting mold for the L4's than I had done for the L3's. Out came the blue tape.

Driver side:









Passenger side:








Yes that power wire is getting moved 

My last mold release attempt was cooking spray, which didn't work at all. I think though it was because the mat soaked it up. But, not wanting to tempt it again, I bought some cheap car wax at auto zone and used that. I also pre-wet the mat before placing it. Worked great. 


















I did two layers of 1.5oz on each side, then pulled them and laid in two more layers. 

Tonight I plan to make the baffles, cover, shape and vent the enclosures.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

You have to have balls to tear up a dash and re-do it. Can't wait for the final product, goodluck.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> You have to have balls to tear up a dash and re-do it. Can't wait for the final product, goodluck.


my first attempt wasn't quite so grand, but it turned out horribly. Wrong product, wrong technique, etc. I did it before I found this and other boards to guide me.

So I figure what the hell, cut it out and make it look nice


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm in for this one! Lol
Love what your doing so far...


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> I'm in for this one! Lol
> Love what your doing so far...


thanks


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

Ive seen the build on here for a while but never look at it. WOW. Big props for what you are attempting. I have an older truck too with a build log also. But I dont have as big of balls as you do lol. Good luck.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

pjc said:


> Ive seen the build on here for a while but never look at it. WOW. Big props for what you are attempting. I have an older truck too with a build log also. But I dont have as big of balls as you do lol. Good luck.


Like a lot of things in the automotive hobbies, it has gotten a tad out of hand 

My blown head gasket turned into an aluminum headed, 500hp 383, which then needed a built trans... and now needs a built rear end... sigh...

If I could keep from buying audio equipment I'd probably have the new rear end together. Soon though, as I plan to run the truck in Hot Rod's drag week in the fall.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Those hot rod engines have a daisy-chain effect. I try it when I was a teen and when my dumb ass looked/read into it I backed out....really fast. Before I knew it my turbo kit would of required a whole lot more than just a turbo kit, lol.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> Those hot rod engines have a daisy-chain effect. I try it when I was a teen and when my dumb ass looked/read into it I backed out....really fast. Before I knew it my turbo kit would of required a whole lot more than just a turbo kit, lol.


Ya they sure do. I ran the engine for about 700 miles or so before getting the trans rebuilt. I just kept my foot out of it  I drive it every day to work and back and I enjoy it, but I'm looking forward to getting the rear end done and a new driveshaft so I don't have to worry about it so much. Then it is off to the track with some slicks and see what she'll do.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I spent most of Monday evening screwing up speaker rings. Kept cutting the wrong size holes. Damn jig just kept getting confusing  finally I got a pair cut for the L4's and then hogged out the back side so they could breath.

Today I spent some time figuring out how I was going to mount the mid bass enclosure. The biggest issue is there isn't much to attach to, but with a couple existing holes and some strategically placed and welded brackets I think I got it figured out. Hoping to have part of the enclosure done tomorrow so I can get some pics of it. 

I decided to have the enclosure built to house both the L8 and the L4. While they will be separated internally I just think it will look better overall.

Also dropped a few dollars today and bought some molex connectors for hooking up the gauges. The current wiring job is a total mess and I hate it. After doing some research I think I've decided on using powerpole connectors for speakers. It was a toss up between those and the deans but ultimately I picked the poles. I though t about using them for the gauges as well but it would end up too bulky. With the molex I can do one gauge per connector, where some gauges need 4 wires (tach and speedo for example) and the molex would be a smaller overall package.


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Awesome truck.. PRO Systems makes some of the best carbs available.. ran one on my 410 stroker and loved it. Looking forward to this log!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Awesome truck.. PRO Systems makes some of the best carbs available.. ran one on my 410 stroker and loved it. Looking forward to this log!


Thank you. I love the carb. Tried a 3310 (gasp) and it just wouldn't run. I'm not a carb guy and pro came highly recommended on a nova forum I visit, so I filled out their form and Patrick sent me a good carb. He told me it would have excellent street manners and does it ever. Even answered all my silly noob questions and dispelled a couple myths before i even bought it. Really great service. Only issue really is since there is no choke it is a little rough on the really cold winter mornings starting up, but I don't mind. 

As soon as I stop spending money on audio gear I'll get the rear end rebuilt and head to the track. On paper it should run in the 12.50 range but I'd be pretty happy with a low 13 to high 12.


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Thank you. I love the carb. Tried a 3310 (gasp) and it just wouldn't run. I'm not a carb guy and pro came highly recommended on a nova forum I visit, so I filled out their form and Patrick sent me a good carb. He told me it would have excellent street manners and does it ever. Even answered all my silly noob questions and dispelled a couple myths before i even bought it. Really great service. Only issue really is since there is no choke it is a little rough on the really cold winter mornings starting up, but I don't mind.
> 
> As soon as I stop spending money on audio gear I'll get the rear end rebuilt and head to the track. On paper it should run in the 12.50 range but I'd be pretty happy with a low 13 to high 12.


You got the power for some low 13s for sure and I think you will knock on the 12 second door. Gear it right and pray that thing hooks lol. My 410 ran 10.90s on motor and 9.90s on a 200 shot.. It made right at 550fwhp on motor. This was in a daily driven 92 stang lol.. I loved that carb.. ran demon, holley HP etc and Pro Systems was amazing. I called Patrick one night when I was out street racing and he fixed my issue (fuel pressure problem) over the phone. Talk about service! I don't know what im more excited about.. the Audio build or your Engine build


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I going to go with 3.73's. Was going to do 4.11 but my dad pointed out that with the deep 1st gear in my 700r4 first gear would be almost useless. It sure would 60ft nicely though 

I was going to run drag week this year but missed the registration. I'm on the waiting list though so I hope I can attend. 

I have a few vids of the engine idling and a walk through that shows the old dash (it was horrible). if you search on YouTube for pocket5s1 you will see them.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

So here are some pictures of the driver side midbass/midrange enclosure. You will see the triangular vent for the L4SE. For the L8 vent, well that was a tad bit of an issue. 

At first I glassed a sort-of-but-not-quite "tube" that just looked horrible. So I figured a 6" PVC elbow would be the way to go. Stopped by Lowes on the way home and 6" elbows were $28?! The 4" was only $5 or so. wow... I got two different 4's knowing that they were a tad too small but hoped that because they were so short it wouldn't affect anything.

On the way home from Lowes I stopped by Ace just to see if they had some cheaper. They didn't have a single one. However, I came across a ducting pipe that was 6" in diameter and it was only $7.50. bingo! So got it and did a test fit. It looks a but funny but should work quite well.

I didn't get a chance to try it out as I had to clean up my wiring mess that I made so I'd have room to get a drill and the sawzall in there. 

There is a lot more work to do with reinforcing the inside, sealing the L8 vent, etc. but here are some updates.

Here are the pics.


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> I going to go with 3.73's. Was going to do 4.11 but my dad pointed out that with the deep 1st gear in my 700r4 first gear would be almost useless. It sure would 60ft nicely though
> 
> I was going to run drag week this year but missed the registration. I'm on the waiting list though so I hope I can attend.
> 
> I have a few vids of the engine idling and a walk through that shows the old dash (it was horrible). if you search on YouTube for pocket5s1 you will see them.


Yeah the 3.73 is a great gear.. you will be able to cruise on the highway no problem with that 700R4.. saw the vids.. it sounds freakin awesome.. love the exhaust! Glad you ditched the edelbrock carb.. I hate them so much lol. I ran AFR heads also.. you got a killer setup.. that truck is really a sleeper.. as long as no one hears it idle!!!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

That's what Patrick at prosystems said when he saw pics of it . It's definitely loud, the mufflers are only about 10" long and it has a 3" exhaust.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Unfortunately not a ton of progress to show. Have been spending some money however...

My CDA-117 should be here today. I just ordered an iPad for my birthday courtesy of the wife, which will be my primary source unit. Also placed an order with Don at SDS for a full sound deadening treatment. That should be in sometime late next week or so.

I'm still debating on power wire, speaker wire and distro blocks. Seems like that is harder to decide than getting amps and speakers. Go figure...

I did get these which will be used for speaker connections:









Also got this in, seeing as I'm hitting my first show in just over a month 









Here is the start on the vertical portion of the center console:









And here it is for a fitment test:









The horizontal portion of the center console will take up about half this space, so really all that is left is room for the ipad and the two AC vents which will go at the top. The plan is to have the ipad in a "door" that swivels open to allow it to be removed, and the CDA-117 will go behind that. So basically the cd player will be hidden most of the time as I never use it anyway. Then at a competition or that rare moment I want to play a cd, I just remove the iPad and there it will be.


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

Some very interesting progress so far.

One thought, though. It might be useful to use the garden hose to see just how much water passes by that cowl vent in the kicks. My understanding is it's alot (keep some towels in the floorboard). My top concern would be making sure water cannot possibly flow into your speaker boxes. That would be a sad fate for such nice speakers. Of course, you would also need to seal that vent pipe to the cab very well.

And why not make the vent pipe out of FG? That way you could build flanges into the ends and make it bolt on, make it whatever shape/size suits you best, and never have to worry about rust.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

85C10 said:


> Some very interesting progress so far.
> 
> One thought, though. It might be useful to use the garden hose to see just how much water passes by that cowl vent in the kicks. My understanding is it's alot (keep some towels in the floorboard). My top concern would be making sure water cannot possibly flow into your speaker boxes. That would be a sad fate for such nice speakers. Of course, you would also need to seal that vent pipe to the cab very well.
> 
> And why not make the vent pipe out of FG? That way you could build flanges into the ends and make it bolt on, make it whatever shape/size suits you best, and never have to worry about rust.


I'm going to address the cowl area this weekend actually. Water isn't a main concern, it is the air. Going down the highway there is enough air coming through it that it would certainly affect that little 4". I'm going to build a dam of sorts to redirect it, but not stop it. This would also work for any over abundance of water that might get in there. However, the floor of the cowl vent is a good inch lower than my 'triangle hole'.

As for the vent pipe, I tried it out of FG. It was a mess. The first issue is getting a consistent cross section. It ended up being much smaller in the middle area. I was worried it might either case some kind of port-like noise, or make the speaker think is was in a really badly tuned vented box or something similar. 

As I was looking at it thinking of a solution I realized it would be far simpler to just use a pip and seal it at both ends. I originally wanted to use PVC but a 6" pvc elbow was like $28. A 4" was only 5. go figure. a 4" would have been far easier to place, but given the length small as it is, I didn't want it to behave like a ported enclosure. These speakers want an IB, so I wanted to get as large an area as I could.

It would have been far easier to just place the 8" in the actual kick like everyone else, but where is the fun in that


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

My new source unit arrived. It was also my bday present from my wife 


New source unit by R&M McIntosh, on Flickr

Yep, an iPad... I decided to go with a Pure i20 dock instead of the istreamer. Couple of reasons. First it is half the cost. Second I can use an optical out to go to the bitten. I did get the i20 in today as well but forgot to get the car adapter/charger for it. 

Oh yea got my tech flex, RCA cables, heat shrink, etc. hopefully have the RCA ends in a day or two. Should also gt most of my sound deadening in a day or so as well as some fuse blocks and more wire. Really trying to wrap up all the little odds and ends so I can focus on the actual fab stuff. 

This next month is going to be quite busy in prep for June's show. I spent the better part of Sunday putting on a new timing chain cover as mine cracked and leaked like crazy. Got the new one on and I'm leaking from somewhere else now. Sigh...


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I like the Powerpoles. I used them for years on my RC cars, because they worked well and were easy to separate. When I'd originally tried Deans connectors they were hard to get apart and a couple of times I ripped wires off of them...but IIRC they had less resistance (probably somewhat due to the tighter fit) and I used them in my Genesis build...and I had no problems getting them apart. They were snug, but not ridiculously tight....I like the way the PP's can be put together to get all kids of unique shapes so you can make stuff that only fits one way.

Digging the build...gonna throw some deadener on that duct piece?

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

JayinMI said:


> I like the Powerpoles. I used them for years on my RC cars, because they worked well and were easy to separate. When I'd originally tried Deans connectors they were hard to get apart and a couple of times I ripped wires off of them...but IIRC they had less resistance (probably somewhat due to the tighter fit) and I used them in my Genesis build...and I had no problems getting them apart. They were snug, but not ridiculously tight....I like the way the PP's can be put together to get all kids of unique shapes so you can make stuff that only fits one way.
> 
> Digging the build...gonna throw some deadener on that duct piece?
> 
> Jay


I was initially a little worried about the size of the powerpoles, but they are much smaller than all the pics I saw lead me to believe. and that is a good thing.

I'm definitely putting some deadener on the ducts. at a minimum CLD tiles but I'll probably wrap them in MLV as well. Both of which should be here tomorrow. Last thing I want is a big metal passive radiator right behind the speaker


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Using powerpoles myself and love them. Makes my tweeters totally removable and I am able to disconnect my trunk light in the back if I want, real quick like.


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## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

quite difficult to work with old cars...love the wrok


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks. One nice thing about them is I don't mind so much cutting into them 

After the truck I have a 72skylark that I'm going to do. I'm already thinking about what to put into it. 

I should have some pics up soon on the progress of the truck as well. I've been kind of lax on it. Have most of the sound deadening in, the amp rack and power wire up. Going to try to build the RCA cables tonight and get the speaker wires run in the next day or so.


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

Can't wait to see some pics. Did you get a solid layer of MLV on the doors?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

85C10 said:


> Can't wait to see some pics. Did you get a solid layer of MLV on the doors?


Not yet. The doors are next though on the deadening though. 

I'm building my RCAs at the moment, and while the actual cable is simple enough to do, getting the flex and heatshrink on correctly and in the right order has been a challenge I wasn't expecting. 

My goal is to get the whole thing powered up and at least playing by this weekend. That gives me until the following Friday to finish deadening, tidy up, etc. before the show on the 2nd.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Well the truck didn't make it to the Conway show due to, well, lots of problems. Here is what it looked like Friday before we left town:










No passenger seat, wires everywhere, one amp taken off the rack. What a mess. 

Here is how it sat Sunday afternoon, after a few hours of listening:









Eventually last night I actually got the passenger seat in it 

The biggest problem I had was a really bad popping when changing source on the alpine. Radio stations, cd tracks, etc. I tried different grounds, swapped RCAs, disconnected my inverter, etc. I basically ran out of time to get it fixed. 

After doing some research it looks like a couple other people had this problem with both alpine and kenwood. One described it as some kind of DC mismatch on the RCA output. Both "fixed" it by using high level inputs. So I gave that a shot and presto, no more popping. Still seems wrong to use high level instead of low level, but for now it will stay. Figures, a 10 minute fix with some speaker wire. Oh well.

Getting an extra dose of motivation having gone to the Conway show, I spent a few hours so far yesterday just listening and playing around a bit with the setup. I wouldn't call it tuning really, just spent some time getting a feel for it. Some of it was listening to the IASCA disc, some just music I like. The initial crossovers are setup with the L8's playing 30-175 on a 12db LP, the L4SE's are 200 up on a 12db. Otherwise, other than making sure left was left and right was right, nothing else was done.

The good news is that overall as it sits untuned I rather like it. For most of it I had the sub muted, so I only listened to the four speakers. Even though the 8's aren't really IB yet (the back still has to be done) and therefore I know I'm losing some bass potential there, I like the output from them. One thing I learned while listening to the three cars at the show, and Dave Brooks specifically pointed out while demoing Scott Buwalda's G35 for me, was most people generally use too much bass. Chris LaCombe of team hybrids made a comment referencing that as well when I was talking to him before listening to his car. Anyway, most of the time I spent listening to songs that had tended to focus on one or two instruments, namely in the intros. Van Halen's Hot For Teacher with the drums, Dido's Thank You with the bongos(??), Stevie Ray Vaughn's guitar, and some acoustic guitar. I liked it. A lot. Mostly I chalked that all up to just great speakers. 

Height didn't seem too bad. Not as clear as the 3 cars I listened to in Conway, but it was above that dash so I felt good about that.

Depth. Well I don't have a whole lot of reference for this one. When listening the neon at the show I heard it once on one instrument, but other than that one instance I wasn't listening for it so I don't know if I would recognize it if I heard it. Need to spend some time with the test cd and see if I can pick up different instruments' locations.

The bad news is my center imaging is about as focused as a cross-eyed monkey walking around in the dark. I'm not even sure it has a center image, lol. I already got a few suggestions on adjusting some of the crossovers that might help with this. I've read most of the TA threads on here and all the different techniques. I'll probably try some of them in the very near future, but for the moment I'm going to work on a bit of install cleanup as it needs it badly.

I also have a couple of small noises. One in particular I only noticed while playing through my iphone. I have that connected to the optical input of the bitone and not through the alpine. Reason being I'm actually going to run my iPad most of the time which won't work with the Alpine, so it was just easy to use my phone. Anyway, there are some tiny, faint pops every once in a while. At the moment I'm thinking this is more source material than anything else. I didn't pay attention at the time on which songs it happened. I have quite a few now that were flac directly to apple lossless and others that aren't. So if I don't hear it on the flac songs then I'll be happy that it isn't some electrical or connection anomaly. The other is I kept hearing a really low level whine. No fans running, engine not running. Finally I realized it was the amp running the L8's. It sits about 12" from my head, and I could hear the noise coming from it. It didn't pass it to the speakers, it was just the amp itself. During regular music you couldn't tell, but turn it down and you can hear it. Wasn't pleased with that. 

I started on cleaning up the wiring last night, but the frickin humidity is so bad here I didn't get far before calling it quits. Tonight I'm going to keep at it.


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## SUX 2BU (Oct 27, 2008)

Subscribed!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Cleaned up the wiring a bit last night. Much nicer...









The one black cable going off the left side is the dock connector. It will eventually be tied to the ipad in the dash, but for the moment I connect my iPhone to it. The right side platinum cable is the speaker wire for the four front stage speakers. The left platinum run is the HU to BitOne connection. Had to use high-level inputs as the RCA connection had horrible popping noises.

What you don't see here is the DRC for the BitOne. Haven't decided if I'm going to put it right behind the shifter or up on the dash right below the gauges. I like the shifter idea as it is easy reach, and I figit with volume a lot when driving.

Cup holders will go in the space where between the wire runs and this will all be covered up as well. I've accounted for about 1.5" above the wood you see here for a beauty panel (for lack of better term). 

Here is an in-work pic of the dash pods.









part fiberglass, part duraglass and part mdf. This was before wrapping obviously and more glassing. Yea, the front mounted t-nut was a bad idea :surprised:


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Yea, the front mounted t-nut was a bad idea :surprised:


LOL, I was wondering if you knew how those were supposed to work.

Nice work. I am loving that console. I intend to do a simple sub box on the trans hump and will use yours as inspiration for making it look clean and "integral."

You know, now that you are so far along with your dash mount project, it is a good time to ask why you didn't floor mount the L8's . Taking my inspiration from BigRed's F250, I decided that would be a helluva spot for a pair on my truck. That location seems to have good protection from the elements and just enough room between the corner of the cab and the cab mount brace. Too bad a pair of L8v2's are $630 bucks . Oh, have you noticed yet that HAT gear has gone up in price about 15% across the board?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

85C10 said:


> LOL, I was wondering if you knew how those were supposed to work.
> 
> Nice work. I am loving that console. I intend to do a simple sub box on the trans hump and will use yours as inspiration for making it look clean and "integral."
> 
> You know, now that you are so far along with your dash mount project, it is a good time to ask why you didn't floor mount the L8's . Taking my inspiration from BigRed's F250, I decided that would be a helluva spot for a pair on my truck. That location seems to have good protection from the elements and just enough room between the corner of the cab and the cab mount brace. Too bad a pair of L8v2's are $630 bucks . Oh, have you noticed yet that HAT gear has gone up in price about 15% across the board?


I almost took the route of the floor mounted L8's. Only reason I didn't was I was going to do the dash anyway and there was all this room... There is also room in the upper kick panel as well if you wanted to go that route. 

Once I heard about the possibility of the hat 13" sub, I started measuring things and I juuuusst might get one in the kick panel  have to see once the physical specs come out and I can see the actual diameter and depth. A floor mount for those is an option as well. 

Hadn't looked at HAT prices in a while to be honest, but a quick look online shows the l3se set at 530 and I think they were 489 a couple months ago, but I could be wrong. 

If you wanted, there are some l8v1s on eBay. One seller (hat team member) has quite a few that never got opened. He sold his truck and they never got put to use. I think he's asking 250 a set and I believe they still qualify for the upgrade buy back if you later wanted some V2's. I would double check with a dealer or just email Scott Buwalda directly and ask about that. He'll answer you pretty quickly, he's good about that.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

So after attending the Conway, AR show and listening to a few hybrid audio cars (including Scott's G35), I have a reference point for what to achieve. With that in mind I sat in the truck for a few hours tonight and started playing with some crossovers and TA. 

It was sketchy at first as I had a midbass that wasn't playing and didn't realize it at first, which threw my center image off. I then muted all the other speaker but the L4's and got it pretty decent. Started with actual measurements for the TA then adjusted those manually tend it sounded actually centered. I then fixed the midbass issue, played with the crossovers a bit and tat didn't change much as far as the center image went, so I left them alone for the time being. 

Spent some time with the iasca disc with the various imaging tracks until I just couldn't get it any better (for now anyway) . Then switched to some well recorded songs from the focal demo CDs as well as some other recordings and it sounds much, much better than it did last night. 

Then listened to some of my everyday music and wow, what a difference. If I wasn't looking to compete, I would be really happy right now. 

I still need to learn to identify stage depth better as I'm not sure if I'm really hearing it or I just think I hear it. I had that problem with the center image a few times where I wasn't sure if it really was there or I just wanted it to be there. But, there were a few songs that there was no doubt on, at least to me. It isn't laser focused like the cars I heard this past weekend, bit it was there. And I like it.

With the bit one having different memory settings I'm probably going to copy over my current ones to a new preset then continue as the week goes on. I'm going to a show this weekend and I'm anxious for someone more qualified than me to eval it. If I had had it done a few days earlier it would have been in Conway and I would have had a whole team of guys willing to listen and give feedback but it just didn't happen.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

pocket5s said:


> Cleaned up the wiring a bit last night. Much nicer...


Are those the cable tie downs from Parts Express? I used them in my last car and when I went to pull everything out, about half of them weren't stuck down anymore. Have you had any problems?

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

JayinMI said:


> Are those the cable tie downs from Parts Express? I used them in my last car and when I went to pull everything out, about half of them weren't stuck down anymore. Have you had any problems?
> 
> Jay


So far only on the amp rack where they are holding 4-6 4 gauge wires on a vertical board. Not all of them but a couple, especially where the wires change directions (horizontal to vertical down to the amp connection). I'm probably going to put two screws in them for security as there are provisions for them. I'll get a pic of that up tomorrow. 

The ones on the console not yet, but only had them on a few days.

Pretty sure I got them from parts express. Bought a pack of 100.


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## adamand (Apr 19, 2009)

What a great looking install! Thanks for taking the time to document it.

I haven't had great luck with those stick'em tie downs either... I like using the zip ties that have the 'loop' (for a lack of a better word) at the headend so you can use a short screw to hold them in place.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I like those for a lot of things, but I don't want to have to screw them down through the floor of my car. I think this time around I may peel the tape off of them and use a quick epoxy to hold them down.

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

adamand said:


> What a great looking install! Thanks for taking the time to document it.
> 
> I haven't had great luck with those stick'em tie downs either... I like using the zip ties that have the 'loop' (for a lack of a better word) at the headend so you can use a short screw to hold them in place.


Thank you. I've thought about those kind of zips as well. At the moment all of mine are on wood so I wouldn't have the issue that JayinMI mentioned.



JayinMI said:


> I like those for a lot of things, but I don't want to have to screw them down through the floor of my car. I think this time around I may peel the tape off of them and use a quick epoxy to hold them down.
> 
> Jay


I've thought about epoxy too. I have a tube of 5minute expoxy that I got for another reason and may use it when I put them behind the dash for the speaker wire runs.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Where in OK are you? I was skimming through your thread and read "Conway, AR" and then noticed your location.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm in Broken Arrow. I see you are in Tulsa 

I'm going to the Ft Gibson show this weekend. First competition for me as the truck didn't make it to Conway.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Hey, cool! We will have to meet up some time. I didn't know there was a show in Ft. Gibson.. they sure picked a po-dunk little town! Thought about going to the "import shootout" at the race track to check out what's happening in usaci but got busy.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Definitely! I was going to attend the ifo show at the track but the truck wasn't ready. It was the day after the Conway show too. However they are having another one in September. 

Yea ft Gibson isn't very big but if they have a good car show all the better. I hope the audio portion goes well so they come back next year. There are 6 usaci shows scheduled in OK this year which is great. I hope the are that many next year so I can qualify for finals without having to go too far. This year is really just a learning experience for me and I hope to hit next year fully. I'm already planning some big upgrades for the fall, with amps and a different sub. The current plan is about 3x the power of what I have now. Still 5 speakers though.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Awesome. Yeah, I'm surprised how many shows there will be in OK this year. I used to compete in outlaw spl about 10 years ago in AR when I was fresh out of high school (whooped everybody in the river valley/NWA's @ss with three 10w0's  ) but local events were few and far between so my road trips to finals were always as a spectator.  Man, with the gear you are running you should be able to clean house locally! I never even knew any of the shops here were high end enough to carry HAT equipment!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

10w0... Brings back a few memories 

I got my l4SE from a member here. I have a set of L3SE's that were refurbed from HAT and the 6 I bought online. I have an 8 as well that I got locally. Boomer audio on 41st carries HAT. Last time I was there he only had the Mirus set on the soundboard but the owner let me listen to his wife's FJ which has l4se in it. He will get the legatia stuff on special order and the price he quoted me was the same as the online store (only one authorized online store BTW). 

The L3's are probably going in my wife's jeep along with the 8, but that isn't solid yet. She went with me to Conway and the first car I had her listen to was Scott's G35. She stepped out with a smile and said "now I get it" 

Once I get it really dialed in and compete in usac I'll be up against mark Eldridge most of the time, so I expect a lot of 2nd and 3rd place finishes.. It'll take a lot to beat his NASCAR vehicle. I saw it at the show but didn't get a chance to listen to it, but he got very high scores to say the least.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

So things have changed around a bit. Here are the new kick panels for the L8's. I gave them the old lead-shot treatment with resin, then added a layer of duraglass on top of that, then the first layer of regular filler is added. I still have some minor work to do, then in the truck they go. Probably tomorrow (Saturday), for Sunday's show in OKC. 



















Each one will also get a layer of CCF as a decoupler to the metal body. The metal part will of course get some CLD and probably a layer of MLV thrown in. Where the speaker ring mates to the metal I'll be using duraglass to bond it and probably some duct seal on the inside for good measure.

The new pods for the L3SE's are in work and should be glassed up tonight. If so I'll get some pics of those too.

I'm also considering doing a blow through... yep, cut a big hole, but hey i've already cut so much, what's a little hole in the cab?? It would solve a lot of problems, but is a big step so I'm still thinking about it.

Before that idea came along (thanks to another HAT team member...), I was going to get rid of the I6SW and do a JL 12W7 or 12W6 in the center console, some HD or maybe Mosconi amps in the console as well. However, with the blowthrough I could put the amps in the bed along with the woofers which would free up ALL of my console space. 

If I do the blowthrough it will most likely be a pair of 13W7's in a 4th order enclosure and not take up the entire bed. I still wanted to use the bed for hauling some stuff after all.


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

That'll simplify things with your dash install.

On the blow-through idea: Don't tell the guys back at the chevy truck forums this. You'll be exiled. I know it's been done and done well in some cases, but that just seems like such a can of worms considering how much the bed and cab move independently of each other on any truck, especially on our trucks.

BTW: Thanks for the tip on the L8's above, but it'll be a while before I can spend anything on audio equipment. Basically I'm just torturing myself browsing these forums.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

It will simplify it a little bit. I had designed those originally to fit behind the dash though. However, now the dash will essentially just be a big grill  Oh, and I'll be able to run AC vents to each side now instead of just the center, which is a big bonus.

On the blow through... Yea I know a lot of people get all worked up on them. Funny cause some of the same people don't get worked up over cutting out the bed for a drop, or a back-half 4link setup, etc. Oh well, it isn't like it is some prized ultra rare truck, and it's mine.

As for the bed moving, the enclosure won't actually come into the cab, it will all be contained in the bed so the movement shouldn't have any effect on it, other than the rubber boot flexing around. 

On those L8's. I'll tell you what, I got mine installed saturday, almost completely sealed up (as in sealing the infinite baffle), turned my sub off, and wow they sound good. They are playing from 200hz on down. If I had a really quite car, running these four speakers would satisfy most people out there. I actually had my sub turned off all yesterday driving down to OKC (almost 2 hours) for a show. I just cranked it up to overcome the wind and exhaust and enjoyed it quite a bit.

On the way in to work today I finally turned on the sub and got my extra boost of bass. However the L8's alone certainly do not disappoint.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Nice truck. That looks like a very ambitious build, but it appears to be turning out great so far.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you. Ambitious it is, more so than I realized going in 

It is still evolving though. The mdf center console is going to come out soon and I'm going to build the dash and console with a metal framework instead of wood.


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## SUX 2BU (Oct 27, 2008)

Love what you are doing. Very ballsy to cut the dash!

I have a C10 as well with some audio work that is constantly changing and evolving with my love for old skool Alpine gear:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3001366/1985-chevrolet-c-k-pick-up
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/307882/1988-dodge-avenger/page-6

I did 7" B&W mids in my kicks and I like them there but eventually I want to build them right into the kick cavity and have a flat kick trim panel wtih a grille for the clean look. For your 8's in the kick, is the backing material fiberglass or wood? It looks like wood and I would like to know how you did that since the metal is curved as it goes further up and where the ventilation opening is, which obviously makes it much harder to get wood to contour to then fiberglass.

If I ever get my big console done, I'm putting my amps in the bed too. But of course I sidetracked onto another stereo project and that is a T shaped box behind the seat and protruding between the buckets with either a gold-letter Kicker C10 or original Blues BL-10 and Alpine 3539 amps


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I like the yellow! Long term plans, maybe next year, is to do a two tone yellow and pewter combo. 

Yea, the upper part of the kick is a real pain, and not the same on both sides. The passenger side has more slope to accommodate the vent and blower motor (my guess). What I did was use a 1/2" piece of MDF for the main board, 3/4" for the mounting ring and use as much board as I could going up. The ring then fits kind of into the factory hole on the passenger side and a hole I cut on the driver.

The board is then bolted to the metal and bonded via duraglass around the ring to the metal. Yea, its basically permanent, but the only way to it and not build it way out. On the driver side I couldn't build it out because it would have interfered with the fuse box.

I did end up trimming the wood back piece about 2" from the front as it did stick out from the metal a bit due to contours and such. I did that so I can build a trim panel and make it flow into the front of the kick where it meets the doors. 

I thought long and hard about doing fiberglass and I probably should have, but just didn't want to get that much into it and I wanted the whole thing to be as solid as I could get it. The L8 really wants a solid baffle and while this isn't perfect, it does pretty good. The nice thing about having them up so high in the kicks is once the dash is in place, you'll never see them. And you will almost never be able to kick them either; you'd have to really try which is nice.

I'll get some pics up in a day or two so you can see what I mean a little better.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Out came the Alpine and in to the classifieds it went. Got a new Clarion CZ702, which is what I wanted a few months ago. According to another member here, I can connect my iPad directly into it and control music through the iPad, which is wonderful news. It means I can remove the Pure iDock and the inverter that powers it. 

I am also hoping that removing the alpine will also remove the source switching noise I have with it. I'll have to wait until I get my BitOne back from being modded.


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## bamelanc (Sep 13, 2009)

SUX 2BU said:


> a gold-letter Kicker C10


^^Yummy^^

Waiting to see how that L3/L8 combo turns out.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

In the four hours I got to listen to it before I pulled the BitOne for mods, I sure liked it  

I should have the bitone back later this week or early next and I can start doing some tuning on it.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Nice, SUB'd


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I managed to pry myself from the forums long enough to do something useful. I got the driver door sound deadening done. It wasn't too bad really, with the exception of breaking a clip for my window controls so now they stick out. Oh well, been wanting to make new panels anyway and move those to the center console. I need to do a little more work on it probably but it is something. If I hadn't of lost a ton of sweat from this frickn humidity I'd do the passenger side as well :/

I did manage to get a few pics of it and I'll get those up when I can. Needless to say it doesn't look a while lot different than any other install. Definite difference in closing the door. Doesn't close like a modern car, but certainly more "thud" to it.

Haven't decided if I'm going to do the passenger door tomorrow or try to make the kick panels slightly less ugly before heading out to TN for the vinny show.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I managed to pry myself from the forums long enough to do something useful. I got the driver door sound deadening done. It wasn't too bad really, with the exception of breaking a clip for my window controls so now they stick out. Oh well, been wanting to make new panels anyway and move those to the center console. I need to do a little more work on it probably but it is something. If I hadn't of lost a ton of sweat from this frickn humidity I'd do the passenger side as well :/

I did manage to get a few pics of it and I'll get those up when I can. Needless to say it doesn't look a while lot different than any other install. Definite difference in closing the door. Doesn't close like a modern car, but certainly more "thud" to it.

Haven't decided if I'm going to do the passenger door tomorrow or try to make the kick panels slightly less ugly before heading out to TN for the vinny show.


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Doesn't close like a modern car, but certainly more "thud" to it.


Do you still have the striker bolt bushings in place? When I started driving my truck back in '01 they were long gone and I didn't even know that were supposed to be there. Since replacing them, the doors shut much easier.

Striker with bushing:
Dorman Products - 38420


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

85C10 said:


> Do you still have the striker bolt bushings in place? When I started driving my truck back in '01 they were long gone and I didn't even know that were supposed to be there. Since replacing them, the doors shut much easier.
> 
> Striker with bushing:
> Dorman Products - 38420


Hmm. i don't recall seeing a bushing now that you mention it. I'll have to double check. 

The passenger door closes easily, and after some adjusting on the driver side striker, it closes pretty easily as well without slamming. However now it doesn't "ring" like it used to, which of course is the goal


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Here is the passenger side kick with the L8 mounted. Before you faint, yes that is electrical tape. It is a temp thing, trust me 

I also haven't finished off the filler. Just been too damn hot out.









And the obligatory sound deadening pics. 



























I did the final trimming of the MLV with the door panel on.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Looking good !, Also looking forward to meeting you / and your truck this Sunday.


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Lookin good.. don't count on those little plastic stick pads holding up.. I am in IT and we use a lot of those and they almost always come loose. You can get hte plastic loops that have a hole through them for using a screw. Not only do they look better... they never come loose! Keep up the good work!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Who is modding your Bitone?

I hope to god you didn't send anything to Reference Audio Mods to have them work on it.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

DAT said:


> Looking good !, Also looking forward to meeting you / and your truck this Sunday.


Even my "creative" use of light can't hide how ugly they look, but eventually they'll be covered with a beauty panel. I'm looking forward to going though. Sill have to hook up the lights on the gauges  I never drive at night so I never put much thought in to it. actually got the fuel gauge hooked up too 



Got-Four-Eights said:


> Lookin good.. don't count on those little plastic stick pads holding up.. I am in IT and we use a lot of those and they almost always come loose. You can get hte plastic loops that have a hole through them for using a screw. Not only do they look better... they never come loose! Keep up the good work!


Yea they are ok on the console but the other places I used them they don't hold all that well. I do plan on getting the ones you mentioned though. Naturally I had to buy the 100 pack of these...



thehatedguy said:


> Who is modding your Bitone?
> 
> I hope to god you didn't send anything to Reference Audio Mods to have them work on it.


Jeremy Carlson. He did the bit one in Scott Buwalda's G35. I think he modded Scott's McIntosh head unit as well. From what I understand it isn't anything too fancy, a cleaned up power supply and the main input.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

JC2 is good people.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Got the bitone back and installed. I did run into an issue with my midbass amp. Seems it wants to shut off with anything less than 13 volts _most_ of the time. Gonna make me nervous come judging time :/ the other two amps keep on truckin though. Worse case I'll turn up the sub a little to compensate, since I keep it pretty low to off most of the time. 

It also just occurred to me that I'll be taking the truck on its longest journey yet with this engine. on Friday the 13th. With a finicky amp. Should be a fun weekend.


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

Nice work. Any trouble refitting the door panels? Is there a gap now? Do you have any pics of the reassembled door showing where the panel meets the door?

I was thinking when I do mine, I would use a self-adhesive decoupling foam like RAAM Ensolite peel and stick for the doors for two reasons. First I seems like it would simplify installation and second I would think the foam could be visible after the door panel is in place. If the later is true, better to use thinner black foam.

Also, will you be using any 3M thinsulate? That stuff has piqued my interest.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

85C10 said:


> Nice work. Any trouble refitting the door panels? Is there a gap now? Do you have any pics of the reassembled door showing where the panel meets the door?


It was tight, mostly from the arm rest. If I had put CCF on as well I'm not sure I would have gotten everything together. I'll take some close ups this weekend while I'm at the show.



85C10 said:


> I was thinking when I do mine, I would use a self-adhesive decoupling foam like RAAM Ensolite peel and stick for the doors for two reasons. First I seems like it would simplify installation and second I would think the foam could be visible after the door panel is in place. If the later is true, better to use thinner black foam.
> 
> Also, will you be using any 3M thinsulate? That stuff has piqued my interest.


MLV is supposed to give you more sound proofing than foam, from what I understand. The CCF layer just decouples the mlv from the door panel, probably more for those door panels that are a bit looser fitting and/or would tend to rattle by themselves. The CCF would make a tighter fit. Also, the MLV layer should be as closed as possible, i.e. no 'holes' for sound to get through. Mine is primarily help up with 2 pieces of velcro, but some weight is supported by my arm rest bracket as well. Not to mention that with the velcro I can take it off easily for getting inside the door if needed (window regulator and such). 

I did get thinsulate, but have not tried to install it yet. It is a bit thick and not sure if I'll ever get the door panel back on 

Custom panels are in the works in the future so I'll keep the ccf and thinsulate stored until then, or if I get bored and in the mood to fight the doors I'll try to put them on with the current panels.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Well some punks decided they needed my head unit more than I did and took it last night. Thankfully they didn't take or destroy anything else. They also managed to take my wife's kenwood in her jeep and her really expensive prescription sunglasses. Hope they go blind.

Oh yea, they left their tools too. Idiots.

So it seems I'll be putting in an alarm much sooner than I had planned to. sigh.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

pocket5s said:


> Well some punks decided they needed my head unit more than I did and took it last night. Thankfully they didn't take or destroy anything else. They also managed to take my wife's kenwood in her jeep and her really expensive prescription sunglasses. Hope they go blind.
> 
> Oh yea, they left their tools too. Idiots.
> 
> So it seems I'll be putting in an alarm much sooner than I had planned to. sigh.


WOW, sorry to hear about this, that is a nightmare I guarantee . Amateurs for sure... Pro's just take the whole car.

Good Luck hope you get both back fixed soon.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I can put my wife's stock HU back in for the time being. me, I'm out. and the damn thing was only a week old or so. Todd offered a loner alpine I can use until I get a new one, but I'm going to get the alarm first and then see where I'm at before doing anything else.

Just a big frickin' nuisance and frustration.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I hate thieves. Especially amateurs. They always break stuff. Some tools stole my old Pioneer DEX-P88 back in the late 90's. It was installed in my '97 Neon...they were so stupid they broke the dash piece (which just unclips), and ripped it out leaving half the wires from the radio harness still in the car...and it was a dead head, so they couldn't even use it after that.

They also tried to steal my door speakers, except I didn't have any...but they left my kick panels alone with my Kicker Resolution 5" mids in them. So, they broke my door panels for no reason.

If someone is going to steal from my car, take the hole thing and remember I don't want it back. Ever. Make that thing disappear. Then my gap insurance will kick in. LOL

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I got lucky in that they didn't break anything. I can live with the HU gone, even the wife's, but her glasses really pisses me off. prescription Fendi's (ask your wife, she'll understand  ). She's had them for years and really relied on them.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

All I know about Fendi, I learned from LL Cool J. LOL

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

JayinMI said:


> All I know about Fendi, I learned from LL Cool J. LOL
> 
> Jay


LOL


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## 85C10 (Jun 4, 2011)

Anything new to report?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm working on the new mountings for the L3SE's now actually. This time though I ditched the fiberglass and mdf route and went for metal. I kept screwing up the angle on the mounting right for the driver side enough that I decided to take a different route all together. 

They are moved outboard a few inches more than they were before. Because of the location it was easier to do it from metal and weld it all up that use wood and glass. I have the driver side almost done and should have the passenger side done shortly.

I was actually thinking on the way to work that I needed to take some pictures of the progress  I'll do that tonight when I get home.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Finally got some pics. After a few screwups with the fiberglassing I decided to make the mountings for L3's from metal. So the pics below show my amateur tack welding, and no so spectacular cutting. But, they are in now and I have the mids wired up and playing again after many weeks (of mostly goofing off I must admit)

First up is the driver side tacked in to place. I had to replace some previously cut out metal above and below it.









Driver side in place with some duct seal and a little cld for good measure.









Here is the passenger side in place ready for driver.









I got the drivers temp installed and took a quick listen to verify everything was still working. Well, it wasn't. My home made rcas aren't quite up to snuff so I pulled them and replaced with some cheap cables for the time being. I'll get to fixing up custom cables another day. 

The new location puts the drivers about 3" down from previous location but also puts them 3" or so further out. Hoping the extra spacing helps more than the vertical drop hurts. Which, if everything I read is correct, it should 

Spent about 10 minutes listening to various tracks. Some on the comp CDs and others just some everyday music. I actually think my height has improved a little, but it could be my imagination. No settings were changed on the bitone, so next up is a bunch of tuning, at least as much as I can given what I know and advise I've been given.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Well my setup didn't go quite as well as I had hoped at yesterday's comp. got some good feedback though and one thing I'm going to do is try a couple more locations and angles for the L3's. The off axis just isn't cutting it in my setup among a few other tuning related things. 

On a good note, I got to listen to Todd's car (highly) and unlike other cars I've listened to I got to hear some of the same tracks that I'm familiar with in mine. Holy cow what a difference. Pretty much night and day. Thankfully he let me sit in for quite some time and I heard a variety of music. I know a few times I visibly reacted to something that I heard and I think I heard him chuckle more than once 

Anyway, back to the drawing board I go. I haven't completely given up on the 3's being the lone driver for mids and highs, but it is getting harder to ignore the "you know, a tweeter would really help you out" feedback I'm getting. I have other more pressing issues though to solve before that is the primary detriment. 

Took the judges advise and bought some PVC caps as temp enclosures to play around with placement of the drivers before settling on a location. Thankfully I didn't fully weld in the mounts for the 3's so that will be easy to remove completely if need be. I just had them tacked in and sealed up with duct seal.


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## BlackCSVT (May 3, 2011)

Love the engine!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

BlackCSVT said:


> Love the engine!


Thanks. It's a gas guzzling, sometimes temperamental, loud and obnoxious to some people. But a lot of fun.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

pocket5s said:


> Thanks. It's a gas guzzling, sometimes temperamental, loud and obnoxious to some people. But a lot of fun.


sums up a lot of ex girlfriends sans gas guzzling.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

chad said:


> sums up a lot of ex girlfriends sans gas guzzling.


Well today gas= much money, so there you go...


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

After spending many days playing with new speaker locations and not having much luck I decided to switch gears a bit and start on the metal skeleton for the new console and dash. I probably spent a good day or so just figuring out how to get started, I.e. build the dash width wise first and tack on the center piece or do the center and build out.

Decided to do the center and work out. Mostly because I would have to remove the current wood frame first and that has my HU and some of my gauges in it. So I cut up some round bar, got to use the new bender and tacked a few pieces together. The only sticky issue at the moment is I'll have to built a mount for the shifter and I need to do that in one shot so I can actually drive the thing  but I hope to accomplish that this coming weekend. In the mean time I should have a good portion of the center done and a new temp gauge pod built up to mount to it.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

You going to either finals this year ?? { IASCA or MECA }


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I won't make meca, but I should be at iasca.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Took out the console and built a new shifter mount. This one is about 3" lower than where it was mounted before. If you look hard enough you can see my amateur welding 



















Here is the vertical portion of the console partially done and the gauge panel mocked up. It is leaning up against my workbench. There won't be any wood backing on it.










After that pic was taken I got the mounting points welded on. I welded two 3/8" bolts to the cab and welded on two brackets for the console that will fit over those bolts so it will be nice and secure.

I also removed the lower front cross brace. It interfered with the shifter cable.

I put a few X's where I'll add the turn signal indicators, brights indicator, the alarm led and a mini-shift light will go in between the tach and speedometer.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

As usual plans change, but just a little. When I put the above mockup in the truck the tach and speedo were too high, so those got moved down and the other four got moved to the bottom. The mount for the HU is in place and I took it that way to finals at Indy. 

I have since started on the rest of the dash. I almost have the passenger side skeleton done, with just a few more braces, the AC vent to do and the mounting tabs left to weld in. I will hopefully get the driver side piece done this weekend or early next week in time for my first show of 2013 on the 27th. I have some acoustic foam coming in and worse case it will just be wrapped in that until I can get some cheap grill cloth before settling on my final covering choice. 

The two dash pieces will also be made from 1/4" round bar like the center piece. When I'm all done I'll have less than $25 or so in metal in the whole thing 

Also putting in a 13" woofer that Todd (highly) is letting me borrow until I can figure out a permanent sub solution. Lack of a sub really hurt me at finals. Oh well 

If there is time left in the rest of the week I'm going to redo my kick panels too. The 8s will be in the same place but I want to redo the mounting for them. The ones I have just did not turn out well. Far too bulky and not as solid as I'd like. Live and learn...


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

So... Been quite a while since last update. Didn't do a whole lot over the winter. I just recently got back to work on the dash. The passenger side piece is about 90% done, just need to mount the AC vent and cover. Driver side is still in work but won't take long.

The center piece has changed slightly since the above pic was taken, the bottom gauges have moved up a couple of inches, the fuel gauge now sits in between the tach and speedo (when you get 10mpg you tend to watch it more, especially on long trips to shows) and the iPad section is changing from a motorized slide out to a floating mount, which saves a little bit of room.

Speaking of which, I originally bought some neo magnets for it, but they were too small and wouldn't hold the iPad. So I got some bigger ones, 1/2" diameter. Arrived today. Packaging says "Not a toy". Ha! First thing I did wa see how strong they were and I almost couldn't separate them little things. Once I got one separated, I wanted to see how far away it would grab. Well it turns out about 3", and it grabs hard enough that it broke one into 3 pieces. Oh well... Oh and they will hold with one on either side of my finger. Pretty strong. A quick test showed they should hold the iPad just fine, bit I won't be able to mount them until this weekend.

Ill try to get a couple pics off the camera and put up today or tomorrow and ill definitely have some up this weekend showing the ipad in place. 

Audio wise, I'm now moving to a three way setup with tweeters this go around and a whole new amp setup. I'm also going to put a sub up front for sq purposes behind/under the dash. I specifically mentioned sq because I'm going to dabble in spl as well. I have my eyes on MECA's BOBOS (best of best of show) award this year. I know I can't beat Todd, Steve, etc in extreme, but I might have a shot at the overall category


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

pocket5s said:


> So... Been quite a while since last update. Didn't do a whole lot over the winter. I just recently got back to work on the dash. The passenger side piece is about 90% done, just need to mount the AC vent and cover. Driver side is still in work but won't take long.
> 
> The center piece has changed slightly since the above pic was taken, the bottom gauges have moved up a couple of inches, the fuel gauge now sits in between the tach and speedo (when you get 10mpg you tend to watch it more, especially on long trips to shows) and the iPad section is changing from a motorized slide out to a floating mount, which saves a little bit of room.
> 
> ...


Nice, I'm taking xtreme, so Todd and Steve call fight for 2nd and 3rd


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Here is a shot of the new dash/gauge configuration with the iPad pan in place. The extra gauge hole will house the water temp, which currently sits in front of the steering wheel. It won't go in until the dash is done as it is mechanical and I have to disconnect it from the engine. Might get an electric one.

There will be a small tab at the bottom to help keep it in place. You can see where I have the place marked for the tab in between the two middle gauges. You will also notice the pan is cut about 2" up. There is a relief (for lack of better word) there where you can push the bottom of the iPad in and free it from the magnets. It will sit flush with the face of the dash.









The center of the pan will have a recessed panel for the fuel tank selector, SPL sub amp switch, SQ sub amp switch and line lock arming switch.


Magnets in place. I first got some that were 1/4" in diameter but they weren't strong enough. These are 1/2" and are plenty strong. I actually had to leave the iPad in place because with it removed they were strong enough that they were pushing each other out of place.









First layer of glass over the magnets. There is another layer on top of this and eventually another will go over the whole back:









Quick test. The dash is raised about 4" off the table and they are holding the iPad in place just fine. 









The package for the magnets says "Not a Toy". Ha, yea right. Here they are holding each other on my finger. They _almost_ hold through my palm. I broke three of them, one from goofing off (they grab at about 4" apart) and the other two just from them snapping together.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I have the ipad a test ride on the way home from work today. The suspension on the truck is fairly still so it bounces a bit, but the ipad never fell out of its place. Magnets held just fine  on a side note, the glare is a *****. One thing apple never seemed to care about with their laptops either and the damn glossy screen can be hard to see depending on where the sun is coming from. Oh well...

I got some switches in yesterday so ill be able to finish up the switch panel and get it mounted behind the ipad. After that it will be on to the center console fab


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

WATCHING!! Any progress??


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

well, I've made some bigger holes 

Actually this weekend should be good. Weather is going to be really nice on Saturday AND the wife is out of town. Progress baby!

I should be getting another pair of speakers today or tomorrow that I need to fab in, and I would like to get the driver side dash frame done as well. Lots of fiberglassing and welding to do.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Very nice, I look forward to the updates...


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Nice Build.. Cant believe I missed it!


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## Born2Rock (Aug 26, 2009)

subscribed.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Lots of work done for the dash area lately.

I'll start with the dash pods for the Clarus 6" drivers. So far every driver I've tested here that had the magnet pushed back into the dash/side area just didn't sound right. mostly it really dropped the stage or decreased width. However, unlike my previous install with the L3SE's and even the 4's, there is no simple way to install something as large as the 6 in the corners of the dash, especially with the weight of the 6.

So, I built a cage/cradle and welded that in to place, wrapped with aluminum tape for shape, then glassed. The cage is 1/4" round bar. The mounting face ring fits into a recess I routed into the baffles so it fits nice and snug. The baffles are then epoxied onto the face ring.

Frame:









Taped:




























Glassing starts...









The baffles are in place but I don't have pics of them yet.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Dash. I decided to toss the roundbar approach and start over. This time I'm using 1x1 tube and plywood.

All started here. a 1x1 support running across the cab. Bolts in to factory dash location.









Supports welded up.









Test fitting the top.









Frame welded up.









Some test fitting.









Grill areas cut out. The hinges were used as temporary means of holding the two together and it also helped retain the angle I was going for.









Bonding frame to face with liquid nails. This worked really well on the flat areas. However I had to use epoxy at the top where the top piece and front piece meet. The liquid nails doesn't do gaps very well, but epoxy does.










Gauge mock up. Layout will be Tach, Fuel and Speedo on top with 4 other gauges in the middle. the two bigger side hole are for AC vents. The HU is obvious... Holes underneath the HU are the fuel selection switch and 4 rockers for turning on various goodies. For the fuel switch I'm going to mold in the factory switch which has a big ass face to it. I only want the rocker to show, so the face will be recessed into the panel and covered over. hence the routed out area.









An idea of what it will look like. The center gauge piece is bolted in so it can be removed for maintenance. The top piece has two holes for defrost vents and the center square piece has a grill flushed in already for sub output and reflection control.









Grill frame being welded up. The expanded metal you see is the grill material.









I don't have a pic of the driver side frame welded up yet, but it is done as well.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I like the look of this design better. Are the matching openings for speakers, then?

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

JayinMI said:


> I like the look of this design better. Are the matching openings for speakers, then?
> 
> Jay


Thanks, me too now that I've gotten it to where it is.

Yes, the two huge holes on either side will be grills. The last pic shows the 1/4" roundbar frame for the passenger side. Kind of hard to see it though. The masking tape is holding in 1/8" hardboard as a spacer between the grill and dash itself. Flattened expanded metal will cover that, then the grill itself of course. The material going over both is very thin so I didn't need it as thick as I would if the dash were to be covered in say vinyl or leather. 

They are that big to eliminate as much potential for reflections or blockage as I can. It also meant I didn't have any large flat surfaces on the dash for reflections after 'leaving' the dash space, so no need for a dash mat-like covering.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Reminds me of (I believe) Horsemanwill's Mustang dash.

Jay


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

a lot of inspiration came from Matt Robert's dash. He has a newer body style truck than I do and his dash is shaped a tad differently but I spent a lot of time looking at his construction technique for ideas.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

His is like a '94, isn't it? Or are you talking about the Murano?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Not sure of his exact year, but the body changed in 88 and went to 98 I think. 

My mother in law has a murano and boy is that a deep dash... No wonder Matt could put 8's in there


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Is this going to be done by the plano show? WOuld love to hear it!  Looks friggin awesome!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

it will be playing. done, eh, not so much 

It most likely won't be covered by Plano, but should be shortly after that.


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

pocket5s said:


> it will be playing. done, eh, not so much
> 
> It most likely won't be covered by Plano, but should be shortly after that.


2.5 weeks man.. Playing is good! Should be fantastic!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Passenger side speaker grill.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Driver side grill...


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I am excited about this build. I believe it is going to blow you away!!!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't know about that, but ill give it a shot


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

There is a lot of things that go in to builds. One main this is when you make it your own. When you make it personal and you put in the hard work. I believe you put yourself in position to be pleased with the results. Regardless what anyone else says. You will be enlighten. Enjoy it, hey you only "hear" once!!!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Tweeters wired up.



















Clarus midranges wired up.










Dash sneak peak. It is painted here just for this weekend's show in Plano for a couple reasons. One, the natural light wood color reflects off the windshield too much and 2nd, it will be covered in material about this color, so it gives me an idea of what it will look like overall.










Last night I got a bunch of sample charts from YourAutoTrim and the wife and I sat down and finalized the colors. Not quite what I was going to do initially, but I think I'm going to like it in the end. Hope to order everything within a month or so.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

well this build has come to an abrupt stop. The truck was stolen yesterday. It is possible that some small miracle happens and it isn't stripped or wrecked and the police come across it, but I'm not holding my breath. 

So, i'll be picking up my old skylark from my brother-in-law's shop and getting it on the road so the wife can have her jeep back  Who knows, maybe I'll build something in that...


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## Born2Rock (Aug 26, 2009)

pocket5s said:


> well this build has come to an abrupt stop. The truck was stolen yesterday. It is possible that some small miracle happens and it isn't stripped or wrecked and the police come across it, but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> So, i'll be picking up my old skylark from my brother-in-law's shop and getting it on the road so the wife can have her jeep back  Who knows, maybe I'll build something in that...


 *OH - NO !!! I am so sorry to hear this. 

YOU weren't lying when you named this thread, BAD KARMA !

I was a huge 'fan' of this build. 

I hope everything works out for the best, for you.*


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

pocket5s said:


> well this build has come to an abrupt stop. The truck was stolen yesterday. It is possible that some small miracle happens and it isn't stripped or wrecked and the police come across it, but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> So, i'll be picking up my old skylark from my brother-in-law's shop and getting it on the road so the wife can have her jeep back  Who knows, maybe I'll build something in that...


That sucks !, Man did you have an alarm on that thing? Oklahoma must be bad for theft. 

hell to get to my truck, you have first bypass home alarm, then you have 1 minute to enter garage and bypass my Alarm system in my truck, before the cops come, and trust me i tested it once and cops were here in 2 minutes. 

Good luck to you.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

well, the truck was recovered. took a while to get it back though.

The thieves left me with a pair of cheap 6.5" coaxes and some HU with the faceplate removed. took my amps and bitone though. 

and... they blew up my transmission. So, the truck is down for the count for probably most of the summer until I decide what to do with it. I'd like to put a TH400 trans in it (has a 700R4 now). I could then drive it and finish it up. most likely will no longer be a competition oriented vehicle though.

Even thought about selling my engine and using part of that to drop in a LQ4/4L80E combo. Maybe throw a turbo on that for fun, who knows. 

In any event I have plans to acquire another vehicle. A bit newer (2006-2008 range) for a daily driver and SQ competition. The truck was never really meant to be, it just ended up going that route.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Sorry to hear man, that really sucks! Looking forward to seeing what you do with your next project though!


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

woah... 
shame.. but looks like you are making plans to move on.
Best with that.


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