# Illusion Audio C12 Carbon Shallow Mount Subwoofer



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I was provided the opportunity to evaluate the performance of one of Illusion Audio's new subwoofers, and I would like to share my impressions with you. 

First of all, here is the URL for the sub on the web:

Illusion Audio C12 Subwoofer



Packaging: Excellent job with this - feels 'High End' 







This thing is Shallow! Next to a Cafe' Du Monde mug 
 




So Let's get started...........

Equipment List: 

Vehicle: 2013 Subaru BRZ
Source: Pioneer DEXP99RS
Supporting Speakers: Audison Thesis 3 way components; Ascendant Audio 12” IB
Amplifier: Mosconi AS100.4 – 2 channels bridged at 4ohm providing roughly 300 watts (for a short time, I ran it off of 2 channels bridged on the AS200.4 at a little over 600 watts).





Subwoofer mounting for the Illusion Audio (IA) C12: The speaker was mounted in a 0.86 cu ft sealed enclosure crafted by Mark Worrell. 

Another installer I know stated that he has mounted it in enclosures ranging from 0.85 cu ft to 1.25 cu ft with good results. 

This is the ugly duckling I put together very quickly one evening after work :blush:



My buddy Mark felt sorry for me, so he put the sub in a real enclosure. It only makes sense that if you are going to do an evaluation of a sub, it needs to be in a 'proper' enclosure. 









Subwoofer locations for this review: 
Behind the front seats – replicating the cab of a truck or hatch of a small car

Passenger floorboard – replicating the up front sub – played either as a stand alone sub with a LP of 63hz @ 24db or as an upfront sub complementing the two 12” IB subs in the back of the car (rear subs LP 40hz @ 24 db; IA sub HP 40hz @ 24 db and LP 80hz @ 24 db)









Crossover Points / Slopes – I tried a variety of points and slopes with this sub – some I liked, and some I didn’t like. Some I liked with some music (for example LP of 80hz @ 12 db), but not with other music. 

I liked a LP of 35hz @ 6db for much of the music that I played, but it was a little lacking in impact on some of the tracks. The majority of the review was done with the HP 20hz @ 24 db and LP 63hz @ 24 db. 


Pros:
•	Extremely good tonality within the desired pass band
•	Very good low end extension for a shallow mount sub
•	Good transients with fast material
•	Very good impact when used as a front sub
•	Shallow mounting depth – perfect for front mounted sub in a 12” size – especially for large trucks, large SUVs, cars with deep floorboards (especially when passengers are not often expected).

Considerations:
•	Very lowest material was missing in my evaluation
•	Fairly large recommended enclosure size according to website for a shallow mount sub
• Venting around the voice coil – (more than likely won’t be an issue for most)
•	Bigger performance with bigger amount of power (600 watts vs. 300 watts)

*Low End Extension*


The IA C12 plays with authority down to the 35hz – 40hz range, but is seems to fall off pretty fast from there. With the BASSics CD, playing from 20-63 hz @ 24 db, the lowest material on the recording was not present (verified by unmuting the dual 12’s in the rear of the car). If this sub is used as an up-front sub to compliment a 15” or dual 12” – no issues. If this is the only sub in the car, and you don’t play a lot of electronic music or soundtracks, it should be perfectly adequate. 

With roughly 300 watts and turned up to a fairly high volume, the cone did not have a lot of movement – that kept things clean and without a lot of mechanical noise when sitting in the floorboard. 

With tracks like ‘Set Me On Fire’ (dub step from Grayson’s mix disc) – with rear subs muted, the C12 got the lowest note with authority – it wasn’t just sort of there – (it wasn’t like - knowing the song, you can detect that it played it), but it played that note well. Interestingly, a LP of 63hz @ 24 db was not so good with this track (with my EQ tune) – 31.5hz @ 6db and 50hz @ 24db was extremely good. Likewise, ‘So Pray’ from Stacy Orico was overwhelming at 63hz @ 24db, but was perfect at 31.5hz @ 6db with my tune. It played most of the notes very well, but couldn’t get the lowest notes (again, not really what this sub is designed for – may have gotten it in the 1 cu ft recommended sized box). Trentemoller’s ‘Take me into your skin’ was extremely good at 50hz @ 24db, but a bit too much at 63hz @24. 

Conversely, some of the heavy rock such as Tool, A Perfect Circle, Ensiferum, Primus, Rage – all did very well with 63hz @ 24db – so you would need to choose the best crossover point / slope and EQ settings that either suit your typical music range or get a good setting that maximizes many types of music (like any sub system). 

*High End Extension*

I mentioned earlier that I really liked the tonality of this driver, and this was especially true at the high end. When the sub was allowed to play up to the 100hz – 125hz range, it did so cleanly – no muddiness that I could detect. Especially used as an upfront sub solution, I felt that I could probably mate this sub with a pair of 6.5” midrange or even 5.25” midrange drivers. 

*Transients / Pace*

This area of the test was very satisfying to me. Especially with the sub mounted up front, I found it to be very quick. It kept up with all of the fast paced music that I played through it. I found the C12 to be very articulate with kick drum strikes and with bass guitar movement. Thom Rotella’s ‘Friends’ was extremely detailed, and Godsmack’s remake of ‘Good Times, Bad Times’ was spot on with the kick drum. Ensiferum’s ‘Battle Song’ was simply Violent (as intended by the artist). Primus ‘Jerry was a racecar driver’ had a very defined triple kick hit that was impressive. It reminded me of my SI Mag V2 that I wish I still had 

*Impact*

The impact was especially good when the sub was mounted in the floorboard - obviously. Kick drum could be felt in the chest, and full, thick bass guitar notes could be felt as well as heard. Bela Fleck’s ‘Improv, Amazing Grace’ was a very good example of how strong the impact can be with this sub. Vic plays low moving tones and hard slaps that were well reproduced – sounded authentic / realistic. I feel that this driver in the back of a hatch (thinking 370Z - with one of Bing's false floors) with a sufficient amount of power would provide all the impact that an SQ enthusiast would desire. 

*Overall Tonality*

For me, this is where the sub really shined. When it was positioned at the front of the car, and I put the same passband on the rear subs, I like the tone of this sub a bit more than the dual 12’s. Whether it was Zoe Keating’s Cello or the Basses in L’Orchestra de Contrebasses, the tone was accurate – true to the instrument. Likewise, on the electronic music, the driver was extremely clean – with a full, precise presentation.

*Ability to Blend with other drivers*

As mentioned earlier, I had the ability to play this driver as a rear only sub, a front only sub, and as a front sub paired with dual 12” rear subs. All of these configurations paired well with my door mounted 6.5” drivers. I felt the sub integrated well with the other drivers it was asked to compliment, and a tweak in crossover setting or amplitude got it blended seamlessly. 

*Power Handling / Durability*

As mentioned above, and conferred with an installer who has used this driver extensively, the sub prefers a moderate (to many on DIYMA) amount of power. I felt the driver was in its element using a bit above 600 watts versus the 300 watts I used for much of the up front sub evaluation. I believe the sub will preform satisfactorily on a sub channel of many of the popular 5 channel amps out there, especially as an up front sub. In my opinion, it would be superb – playing all types of music well – with 700+ watts of power available. I felt the build quality was very solid, with a tight suspension that kept everything in control. I never had a feeling that the driver was struggling or that longevity would be an issue. 

I have indicated the various tracks I used above, but I thought it might be helpful to list some of them again here:

Master Blaster – Stevie Wonder
Stay Up Late – Talking Heads
Friends – Thom Rotella
Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’ – Michael Jackson
Set Me On Fire – Pendulum 
Good Times, Bad Times – Godsmack
So Pray – Stacie Orrico
Take Me Into Your Skin – Trentemøeller 
Vamp – Trentemøeller
Bird on a Wire – Jennifer Warnes
Jambi – Tool
The Pot – Tool 
Judith – A Perfect Circle
Ensiferum – Battle Song
Jerry was a Race Car Driver – Primus
Tommy the Cat – Primus
My Name is Mud – Primus
Take the Power Back – Rage Against the Machine
Improv, Amazing Grace – Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
Digital Bassics disc
Dub Wars – Groundation
Elder’s Dub – Groundation
Celtic Dream – L’orchestre de Contrebasses
Dors Adele - L’orchestre de Contrebasses
Escape Artist – Zoe Keating
Optimist – Zoe Keating

In summary, I was extremely impressed with the performance of this Subwoofer system. Excellent performance from a shallow mount driver - but I think it is important to note that this isn't just a shallow sub that happens to sound pretty good........this is an excellent sounding sub that happens to be extremely easy to mount in tight spots. I feel strongly that this driver is a slam dunk for someone with a large SUV (Escalade, Sequoia, etc) that can mount it in the front floor board - up tight to the fire wall. This sub would also work very well in the cab of a truck - either single cab or crew cab - lots of options. 

Anyone who may have an interest in purchasing, you can reach out to Orca to locate a local dealer, and there are folks on DIYMA who are dealers as well. Let's keep those discussions on PM instead of in this review thread. 


ORCA Design & Manufacturing


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks for the in-depth subjective review


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

I have some similar thoughts on the sub too. One thing I am a little surprised about was the low end extension part. The one in my truck (in .86 cuft) has really great low end extension.. I wonder if your observation is vehicle related?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I have some similar thoughts on the sub too. One thing I am a little surprised about was the low end extension part. The one in my truck (in .86 cuft) has really great low end extension.. I wonder if your observation is vehicle related?


Hey Joey - I had similar feedback from Bing - that he had great results from the vehicles he has installed this driver. It could be vehicle related, slightly underpowered, tune related, not 'permanently' installed / set up for this vehicle, or my own subjective viewpoint. My impressions of any 'lack' of low end extension was in relation / comparison to the two 12" IB subs in the car with double the power - I wasn't very clear about that. Overall I was impressed with the range of this speaker - especially for a shallow mount sub. I believe that is good information to add for those who may read this review, from your experience with it set up in your truck, that you feel it provides the low end that you are looking for.  I appreciate you asking about that.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Hey Joey - I had similar feedback from Bing - that he had great results from the vehicles he has installed this driver. It could be vehicle related, slightly underpowered, tune related, *not 'permanently' installed* / set up for this vehicle, or my own subjective viewpoint. My impressions of any 'lack' of low end extension was in relation / comparison to the two 12" IB subs in the car with double the power - I wasn't very clear about that. Overall I was impressed with the range of this speaker - especially for a shallow mount sub. I believe that is good information to add for those who may read this review, from your experience with it set up in your truck, that you feel it provides the low end that you are looking for.  I appreciate you asking about that.


Could easily be just that. By the enclosure not being bolted to the chassis and completely isolated on the seat, it is not exciting the car and you loose those lows that you feel more than you hear. Which is also seen by the brain as an audible sound (ie rest your leg up against a vibrating door panel and it pull the image that way).


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Could easily be just that. By the enclosure not being bolted to the chassis and completely isolated on the seat, it is not exciting the car and you loose those lows that you feel more than you hear. Which is also seen by the brain as an audible sound (ie rest your leg up against a vibrating door panel and it pull the image that way).


I appreciate that, and I think that is completely reasonable.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Great review. This thread will be a good place to point people who might have a greater limitation on their subwoofer depth than they have on their budget. I came away extremely impressed with the C12 myself, after the demos that I had.


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## Loudy (Nov 10, 2010)

For those who have auditioned both, how does the C12 compare to the SI BM MKIII? 

I currently have the SI running off the sub channel of an old Belle amp and and it sounds great but could use slightly more output to keep up with the fronts.


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## JimAckley (Mar 22, 2011)

It's refreshing to get an in-depth review about a sub. Well done sir. 



Loudy said:


> For those who have auditioned both, how does the C12 compare to the SI BM MKIII?


+1. I'm very interested to hear that comparison


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Loudy said:


> For those who have auditioned both, how does the C12 compare to the SI BM MKIII?
> 
> I currently have the SI running off the sub channel of an old Belle amp and and it sounds great but could use slightly more output to keep up with the fronts.


I dont think it would be louder. The Si has a tad more cone area (4sq in), alittle more excursion (3mm), and the C12 is about 1 db more sensitive.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I played with a BM once  (I couldn't resist!), but that was a while ago......so I can't offer anything constructive (even a subjective opinion) between the two. 

Your post made me think back through the DIYMA fog......maybe I did some type of impression thread on that sub.......and low and behold.......I did - in 2009 .

Impressions of Stereo Integrity MKIIBM Subwoofer

I think it would be extremely interesting to have an A/B comparison between those two excellent drivers - optimum enclosures for each (probably not same size), same power, tune - basically banana plug one in, play a track, switch over to the other one. I think Nick is either ready to ship out a new model or has already shipping out the latest model.....would be fun.


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## minibox (Mar 25, 2009)

Very thorough and subjective review. Great contribution to the forum. Thanks again Jason!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Yes as it's making my decision easier as far as replacing my CDT QES1220 with my Illusion Audio C12 Carbon subwoofer.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

To me, the BM "sounded" more efficient, especially in the bottom octave. The C12 sounded punchier, almost like it was either more efficient in the midbass or rolled off more on the bottom end. The BM is a pain in the ass to mount though. 

Both are great subs though.


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## JimAckley (Mar 22, 2011)

In essence, does the BM perform pretty much just as well but with less airspace?

Why's the BM a pain to mount?


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## strakele (Mar 2, 2009)

Great review Jason! Sounds like a great sub.

Would Also be interesting to see how it compares to something like the Alpine Type R shallow.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

JimAckley said:


> In essence, does the BM perform pretty much just as well but with less airspace?
> 
> Why's the BM a pain to mount?


I preferred the BM. 

It sucks to mount because you have the hold the VERY thick rubber gasket that covers the mounting holes with one have while you screw it in. It's...unnerving to say the least and Nick changed the new design because of it.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

After further consideration of Joey's post and Paul's comments about the BM, it occurred to me that the majority of my listening was done with a band pass of 40hz to 80hz - used primarily as a front sub. 

I should have time this weekend to place the driver back in the car - connected to 1/2 of the AS200.4 (about 640 watts) with no high pass. I'll run through the disc I have made for my upcoming G2G to re-evaluate the question of the low end extension.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I for one really appreciate the extra effort that you are putting forth on this.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Indeed. After the thorough review you already provided, that is going above and beyond. I'm sure many will appreciate your secondary impressions without the HPF.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> After further consideration of Joey's post and Paul's comments about the BM, it occurred to me that the majority of my listening was done with a band pass of 40hz to 80hz - used primarily as a front sub.
> 
> I should have time this weekend to place the driver back in the car - connected to 1/2 of the AS200.4 (about 640 watts) with no high pass. I'll run through the disc I have made for my upcoming G2G to re-evaluate the question of the low end extension.


I completed this task today, and I wanted to provide some feedback. In summary, the Illusion Audio C12 sub powered by 640 watts of power with a Low Pass crossover of 80 hz @ 24db and no High Pass was superb. It had very strong low end, it played sustained bass notes while playing fast paced kick drum hits, and I felt everything was well defined - the sub wasn't struggling to keep up or play low, so there was no muddiness or blurriness. I set the sub behind me on the back of the seat and adjusted Time Alignment until it sounded in front of me and blended with the mid bass drivers. 

A quick run down of the tracks (from my upcoming September DIYMA meet in NC) and the notes I scribbled for each. 

7 Brothers / Oi Va Voi - the sub bass and the mid bass blended very well - very clean on the bass strings and the kick drum was very distinct. 

Amazing Grace / Victor Wooten - the big slaps were very fast - the sub could keep up with what Vic was doing - the sustained notes were solid and full - very good low end.

Artist Supreme / Steph Johnson Trio - very well defined opening stand up bass plucks - very well balanced between the 6.5's and the sub - good tonality of the stand up bass.

Blue Moon / Cowboy Junkies - this is a 'dirty' bass part, but the C12 played it cleanly - I would think a lower resolution sub would blend all of the bass notes into one big sustained mumble, but the sub did a good job at keeping things distinct - the lowest notes were full without being bloated. 

Carey / Sara Gazarek - very tight presentation - the stand up bass moves from higher register to lower register very quickly - to me, this showed the capability of this sub to play well on either end of the spectrum - could pair up with a good set of 5.25's. 

Elves vs Mecha / Praxis Axis - defined hits with lots of body - not thin little strikes - with the volume up - this was shaking the car (really impressive for a shallow sub that weighs almost nothing) - deep rumbles with good tone - lots of cone movement on this one. 

Eternal Wait / Ensiferum - thick bass guitar! very good weight to it and the kick drum was very well defined. 

Government Cheese Keb' Mo' - tight, articulate bass guitar and kick drum - good finesse and maintained that when the volume was increased

July / Lee Ritenour - very good on lowest bass guitar hits - very good low end extension (as you experienced in your truck Joey) - no problem at all with the lowest material - very good with large tom strikes - full, moving bass guitar parts - played with authority - good slaps on the frets. 

Know You / Bonobo - very thick synth tones - still hitting hard on the kick drum - again, the cone was moving on this one and the drum and synth bass were very strong - had the appropriate weight / thickness / speed. 

Master Blaster / Stevie Wonder - kick drum was well defined between the 6.5's and sub - very good balance - bass guitar was quick and plucky. 

Mo Better Blues / Joseph Vincelli - very low bass guitar - with good definition - just didn't drop down to mud - the kick drum was punchy and the whole presentation maintained control even at high volumes. 

Sail / Awolnation - the bass hits were SOLID - lots of excursion of the cone - at 00:49 - there is a quad kick drum hit that was extremely well defined. 

Summertime / Steph Johnson Trio - huge low strikes as he goes up and down the range on the stand up bass - the bass solo was extremely well defined - very blended with the 6.5's as he moved up and down the register. 

They Came in Hordes / Whitebear - solid, deep bass - not struggling to sound bigger than it is - very solid low synth bass - good ambience with the odd sounds in this track. 

Umo / Ooioo - good body, tone of the drums that are played by multiple people - I heard this track on another car at a meet and the drums sounded thin - sounded full on this sub.

Want 2 Need 2 / Trentemoller - very fast synth bass, and the sub kept up with little trouble - very full low bass with speed - the sub didn't get out of control even with a lot of cone movement - even with the strong synth bass, the kick drums were well defined.

When Sunny Gets Blue / Steph Johnson Trio - very quick, defined stand up bass part - perfect transition between the 6.5's and the sub as he goes up and down the register (again) - could really make out the body of the double bass - could visualize the instrument while listening - good heft, but good resolution as well.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Jason, thanks for the awesome initial review, and thank you heaps for taking the time and energy to re-evaluate the sub. I also appreciate the time you took to provide the specific track details and your listening impressions.

I'm sure many others will appreciate the thorough info you have provided for a long time to come. Good stuff.

EDIT: I wanted to check to see which version of the Cowboy Junkies "Blue Moon" you are using... the one from "The Trinity Sessions" disc, or from the newer "Trinity Revisited" disc? Both are superb, but a bit different. Just checking. Thanks again.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Awesome follow up! Certainly a great addendum to the initial review.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks for the follow up! I was very curious about your initial results. I have to commend you for evaluating what was going on, and then making the relevant changes and retesting. Very good scientist!


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

Great review. I have heard these before and loved them. I would of never gone this in depth in a review. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We installed two of them in a Raptor that went to SEMA and I was really impressed.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Looking at this closer, I wish they made these in a 15" version. It would probably be perfect for the enclosure in my current install while still remaining completely stealth.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> Jason, thanks for the awesome initial review, and thank you heaps for taking the time and energy to re-evaluate the sub. I also appreciate the time you took to provide the specific track details and your listening impressions.
> 
> I'm sure many others will appreciate the thorough info you have provided for a long time to come. Good stuff.
> 
> EDIT: I wanted to check to see which version of the Cowboy Junkies "Blue Moon" you are using... the one from "The Trinity Sessions" disc, or from the newer "Trinity Revisited" disc? Both are superb, but a bit different. Just checking. Thanks again.


Hey Billy - it was the one from the Trinity Sessions. Very good track.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

now i wish you can give the C12XL a twirl off around 1 to 1.5k watts


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> now i wish you can give the C12XL a twirl off around 1 to 1.5k watts


I can look it up right now, but if it can do 2ohm, I can give it about 960.......that is what I have on the JL TW3 10" up front :0

4ohm nominal for one, but I do have a US Amps that is rated at 1100x1 @ 4ohm


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

the one we did recently, took a arc 2300SE bridged at 4ohm (1300 RMS), never a hint of bottoming out...the output and extension coming out of it was...


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Very cool - I bet that was fun! I'll look up your recent builds to see what type of enclosure size, etc that sub was in.


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

have anny of you tried this sub? TS-W01RSII (Archived) - Pioneer Europe

if i may ask in this thread?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Noobdelux said:


> have anny of you tried this sub? TS-W01RSII (Archived) - Pioneer Europe
> 
> if i may ask in this thread?


No sir - I have not.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I preferred the BM.
> 
> It sucks to mount because you have the hold the VERY thick rubber gasket that covers the mounting holes with one have while you screw it in. It's...unnerving to say the least and Nick changed the new design because of it.


Exactly. Was the flush gasket cool looking (no screw holes)? Yes. Was it a PAIN to mount? Yes. Did I change the gasket back to normal so that the mkIV could be mounted without having to ask four of your friends help to mount the driver? Yes.

...it really was that difficult to mount the previous mkIII.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> Exactly. Was the flush gasket cool looking (no screw holes)? Yes. Was it a PAIN to mount? Yes. Did I change the gasket back to normal so that the mkIV could be mounted without having to ask four of your friends help to mount the driver? Yes.
> 
> ...it really was that difficult to mount the previous mkIII.


Once your 4 friends helped get it in, it looked fantastic! 

I'm looking forward to seeing / hearing the new models Nick.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Great review, Jason. Thanx for taking the time to do it and share. I'm looking forward to hearing one of these soon. Bing has offered an audition, I just haven't had the time to take him up on it.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

We just finished an install with one of these. Even I didn't get to hear it!!! I was too busy replacing the spark plugs and coil packs on the car... :-(


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## jsketoe (Aug 8, 2008)

you guys need to get bing to give a 12" XL model a whirl IB.


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