# 2000 VW Passat GLX DEX-P99RS, Scan, Dynaudio, Arc Audio



## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Well - here goes. I'm doing a major overhaul of my system. I'm moving from an all passive MX406, Dynaudio System 360, Butler Amps, JL Amp/Sub to the big boy territory of:

Pioneer DEX-P99RS
Scan Speak R3004 and 12M in sealed dash pods
Dynaudio MW182 in the doors
Arc Audio 2x4200SE driving the Left and Right Front
Dynaudio Esotar E1200 Sub sealed
Arc Audio 2300SE bridged driving the sub

A ton of deadening and work going into speaker pods/mounts.

Design Goals:

* Goosebumps
* Stand the hair on the back of my neck up
* Maybe a tear to my eye
* Revealing things I've never heard before in some of my reference material
* Endorphin release
* The more I turn it up, the better it sounds, but still sounds fantastic at any volume
* Head bobbing
* When the green light turns yellow, slowing down intentionally, just so the drive takes a little longer and I can enjoy the journey.
* After I get out of my car, I want to say to myself "eff yeah, I'm so glad this is a hobby of mine."

I'll get a pic of all the gear together. It's a sight to behold.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

I did a bunch of sound deadening many years ago. All the pics are at:

Passat

Here are some for the thread. Basically, I removed the entire interior of the car minus the dash board and did a layer of dynamat, then raammat, then ensolite.

I wouldn't do the headliner again or wish it upon my worst enemy.

Oh, and for a Passat, you have to cut the carpet around the dash because they put the dashboard in after the carpeting. It's tucked away so you can't really see it.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

One seat car, and I'm going to go on axis for the dash pods. Mock-up position of the tweet/mid-range on driver and passenger side.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Rough fit of the MW182 in the passenger side door. I don't think I can make it fit without cutting up the the door card, but it's a moot point since I already hacked the drivers side rough fitting in the Scan 18WU and still roll the window down, before I decided to go with the MW182.

-Scott


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

That is a nice list of equipment!


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Along for the ride!


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Dash pod progress. Previously, I had my midrange (Dyn MD140/2) and tweets (MD100) in the kicks and decided for this upgrade, I'd commit to mid-range and tweet up high. I wanted to go sealed and knew the pods would be on the obnoxious side of aesthetics. I listen with my ears and not my eyes, so I'm OK with that. I don't think the pod is any worse of an eyesore/obstruction than the GPS in my wife's Highlander.

The Dyn MD140/2 in the kicks and could only go down to 500Hz (I think 800Hz 6b with the X360) or so. I also wanted a non-soft dome midrange that would let me go down to 200Hz. 12M should do that 

Since it is a one seat car, also went with on axis design. That drove the R3004 tweeter decision over the D3004 because on-axis of R3004 looks a little better and maybe less reflections will work out. Hard to say until its in the car and I get to hear it.

Was shooting for around 1 liter of sealed space. I think I'll end up 1.1-1.2 or so which should be real nice for the 12M sealed. 

Here are some shots of the fabrication. Many layers to try and get the thickness up. Layers of woven and mat.

I'll also be applying a few coats of CAE VB-1X to the interior along with some deflex pads.

And if that wasn't enough, trying to decouple the dash pod from the dash and A-pillar so bought some 1" 3# acoustic cotton to put between the surfaces.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

make sure you chamfer the rear cutout for the 12m. 
chamfering driver holes


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

I love your design goals they may be the best I have ever heard. It was nice meeting you at 12V Thunder in Pottsville, I have the satin blue Chevy truck.


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Navy Chief said:


> I love your design goals they may be the best I have ever heard. It was nice meeting you at 12V Thunder in Pottsville, I have the satin blue Chevy truck.


Great to meet you as well. Thanks a lot for the chance to listen to your setup. It was so great to see everyone's approach to make their system sound good. 

As a first-timer, I really appreciated how friendly everyone was. I've been doing this in isolation for 10-15 years in my garage/driveway and loved the fact there are other such great folks with the same passion. 

-Scott


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I am excited to see how this turns out. we have/had some similar products. how did you fit the MW170s into the doors? I sold mine because i was scared by trying to get an 8" into the door and went with MW160s.


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> make sure you chamfer the rear cutout for the 12m.
> chamfering driver holes


Wow. Thanks for the heads-up. From this link, it looks like I am currently in his "B" case. A midrange mounted on a 3/4" MDF baffle with no chamfering.

From the charts he presented on frequency response it looks like A (two layers unchamfered) is "the least ideal" compared to "C" (one layer chamfered), but the difference between "B" (on layer unchamfered - my situation) vs. C is not as pronounced in the frequency response between A and C.

I'm not trying to dispute the advantages of chamfering, rather confirm I am understanding the study and data correctly.

I also wonder how much this would be driver dependent (e.g. Scan 12M vs. SEAS CA12RC) and frequencies played.

For example, because of the nature of cramming the MW182 into the door and potentially have more of a situation A, chamfering could be a much bigger issue there . . . 

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

vwdave said:


> I am excited to see how this turns out. we have/had some similar products. how did you fit the MW170s into the doors? I sold mine because i was scared by trying to get an 8" into the door and went with MW160s.


I checked out your build log. Very nice. I have "paid for" 2000 and you have quite a sweet ride I can understand not wanting to cut sheet metal/door card.

Long story short, the MW160 fit without any pain with 2x1/2" spacers. I also rough fit a Scan 18WU, but it was so deep I had to add 2x3/4" MDF rings (in addition to the 2x1/2" rings!) to get the depth I needed and still roll the window down. And because of that, had to hack open the door card.

I had also purchased an MW172 and it's not as deep as the the 18WU, but because of how the basket is made would have required some cutting of sheet metal for clearance, but could have probably kept the door card in tact. 

I then decided that the MW182 was "the" mid bass to have. It's a stamped basket that gets narrow quick. But even with that, a 10" or so driver in the door required cutting sheet metal on the passenger side so it could fit. It's a combination of the overall size of the driver and the depth. The MW182 wouldn't just "drop in" the existing speaker hole because the diameter required more "vertical" movement so the door could close. Once I cut the the sheet metal out of the passenger side, I was fine, but again because of the diameter of the driver, I'll have to cut the door card to make it fit.

In summary, the MW160 drops in just fine. The MW172 could probably go in with a little sheet metal cutting, but not cutting up the door card. The MW182 is committing to hacking up both.

This is all assuming my work on my 2000 Passat and my interpretation of the pictures your 2013 have are accurate.

-Scott


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

scottrwalters said:


> I checked out your build log. Very nice. I have "paid for" 2000 and you have quite a sweet ride I can understand not wanting to cut sheet metal/door card.
> 
> Long story short, the MW160 fit without any pain with 2x1/2" spacers. I also rough fit a Scan 18WU, but it was so deep I had to add 2x3/4" MDF rings (in addition to the 2x1/2" rings!) to get the depth I needed and still roll the window down. And because of that, had to hack open the door card.
> 
> ...


thanks for the compliment. Our cars look very similar internally(under the skins). Ive always liked your generation of passat and i really like what youve been doing.

So yea i got my 160s in no problem, but it looks like the 170s would fit with some work. they werent deep at all, andi seem to have lots of space left over, so who knows.

anyways, back to your build...ill be watching it closely.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

scottrwalters said:


> Wow. Thanks for the heads-up. From this link, it looks like I am currently in his "B" case. A midrange mounted on a 3/4" MDF baffle with no chamfering.
> 
> From the charts he presented on frequency response it looks like A (two layers unchamfered) is "the least ideal" compared to "C" (one layer chamfered), but the difference between "B" (on layer unchamfered - my situation) vs. C is not as pronounced in the frequency response between A and C.
> 
> ...



it mainly matters for smaller drivers with thick baffles. IOW, it's a basket size vs baffle thickness concern.


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> it mainly matters for smaller drivers with thick baffles. IOW, it's a basket size vs baffle thickness concern.


Gotcha. BTW - I really liked your site and the information you provided on measurements on different drivers. I used that as reference during my equipment choice process.

Nice work.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Got the car and the pods back from the shop yesterday. Looking great. Starting my application of VB-1X now. You can really tell between the blue wet and black dry.

I've driven a little bit with the pods on the dash. I knew it was going to take up some visual real-estate, but I'd say it's only slight worse than a GPS on the drivers side. No issue whatsover on the passenger side.

-Scott


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## cerwinvega_fan (Nov 9, 2010)

I can dig it. I wish I knew how to do all that fab work.


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

The Dynaudio E1200 arrived today. Yes it was really awesome opening this bad boy up. The only difference between men and boys are the price of their toys 

I think these pics might constitute car audio sub woofer porn, if such a genre exists. She takes it all off.


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## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

scottrwalters said:


> The Dynaudio E1200 arrived today. Yes it was really awesome opening this bad boy up. The only difference between men and boys are the price of their toys
> 
> I think these pics might constitute car audio sub woofer porn, if such a genre exists. She takes it all off.


Schwing!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

WOW! if only i had the space, power and money for that sub. I cant wait to see it all done.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

damn dude. glad to see all that gear going into a vw 

i would have said make temp pods on the dash and do the install then lastly mount the mid\tweet after testing.

i fit IDQ8's in my gti doors, basically the same thing you did there. it shouldnt be hard to get those dyn's in there.

cant wait to hear this when you get it all in bro. if it were me, i would rather have a dedicated outboard processor (ps8 for a system like this) but the p99 is an awesome unit - super confusing to navigate for me (old h701 user) but i hear when you get used to it, it is a breeze. the remote sure is pretty.

just take your time and do it right sir!


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

req said:


> i would have said make temp pods on the dash and do the install then lastly mount the mid\tweet after testing.


Since I don't do fiberglass, it had to go to a shop for this and logistically, it just couldn't work out.

For as much detail as I am trying to put into the install/overall rig, I do wonder how much skipping this step may "cost me" sound wise overall. 

Since the pods are very thick and about 1L sealed, the enclosure itself should have a major impact on the sound. I've rationalized to myself that temp pods wouldn't have this so the speakers would sound so different, perhaps this will "wash itself out." They are both on-axis and doing a rough fit, it looks pretty good.




req said:


> i fit IDQ8's in my gti doors, basically the same thing you did there. it shouldnt be hard to get those dyn's in there.


Yeah, only had to cut a little sheet metal. It's no so much the problem of getting them in the door as dealing with the door card.



req said:


> cant wait to hear this when you get it all in bro. if it were me, i would rather have a dedicated outboard processor (ps8 for a system like this) but the p99 is an awesome unit - super confusing to navigate for me (old h701 user) but i hear when you get used to it, it is a breeze. the remote sure is pretty.


I ran an outboard with a Sony C90-XDP4000 in the past. Then I got an Eclipse CD8854 and because I could tune it without a laptop ended up with a better overall sound even though I know the Sony setup was capable of better sound.

So I wanted the convenience of everything in the HU again and I already had enough RCAs run. But you never know, an F#1 might change my mind 

-Scott


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## fullergoku (Jun 21, 2009)

Now that's what I call Sub Porn!!!!!!


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

well if you ever want to make a trip down here and want\need to redo them pillars, you wont have to pay a shop or a hotel if you know what i mean.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Interesting... got a -00 Passat as well. Will be fun to see how you proceed with this build  

Subbed.


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Some good work done yesterday. I was mostly looking to get a rough fit of the dash pods in and got that accomplished. The pods will need to come out a few more times to take care of the details, and I'll post pictures of that and more details about the pods themselves.

Completely untuned (no EQ, no sound level adjustments, basic XO, no TA, amp gains all the way down), no sub, and only the MW182 in the passenger door this is what I noticed sound quality wise.

1) Effortlessness. Everything I note below seems to be produced by a system that isn't breaking a sweat.
2) Sound stage height. I had midrange/tweets in kicks, so obviously I noticed the huge difference in the height of the stage.
3) Surprising depth. With the dash pods "in my face" I was kinda expecting the sound to be in my face as well. Was not the case.
4) Articulation and separation. So much easier to identify specific instruments.
5) Rolling the windows down. This is my daily driver and I like to roll the windows down and open the sunroof. Before, the system would just get muffled and drowned out with the windows and sunroof open. I had a Dizzy Gillespie disc in and rolled the windows down and open the sunroof. System still had amazing presence.
6) Even a single MW182 is capable of sick tight bass. I highly recommend it.

I know I still have a lot of work to do, but I was not disappointed with this stage of the install.

-Scott


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

How's the build coming? I just ran across it and I am going to be doing a very similar build with very similar pods. I think mine might be a hair bigger. Lol. I am going to be using dynaudio md130 tweets and mw150s for the mids and then just mw162s for the mid bass in the doors. I am getting anxious to hear it. Should have it hooked up this week. I am using the same deck, p99rs, and then a morel ultimo 12 for the sub. I am curious how the dyn compares to the morel? What would you like to change with your system? I was going to go with the mw172s but didn't want to cut up my doors. 

So are you happy that you moved up to the pillars from the kicks?


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: 2000 VW Passat GLX Alpine F1, Scan, Dynaudio, Arc Audio*



aj1735 said:


> How's the build coming? I just ran across it and I am going to be doing a very similar build with very similar pods. I think mine might be a hair bigger. Lol. I am going to be using dynaudio md130 tweets and mw150s for the mids and then just mw162s for the mid bass in the doors. I am getting anxious to hear it. Should have it hooked up this week. I am using the same deck, p99rs, and then a morel ultimo 12 for the sub. I am curious how the dyn compares to the morel? What would you like to change with your system? I was going to go with the mw172s but didn't want to cut up my doors.
> 
> So are you happy that you moved up to the pillars from the kicks?


Slowly, but I can't say surely. I can say surely I am very happy enjoying every step. I'm "rough fit" in meaning all the gear is in the car and I'm breaking it in. I've done very minimal tuning and just getting a sense of how everything sounds. To answer your questions.

I can't compare the Dyn sub to the Morel cause I've never heard the Morel. I can say the Dyn E1200 is easily the best sub I've ever heard in a home or car. Absolutely ridiculous articulation and transparent bottom end. And it can pound. I don't regret buying it for one second and can't imagine ever trying another sub. I might get another E1200 though  When I did my research, seemed like all of folks that had a chance to hear both gave the nod to the Dyn. I can hear why.

What I'd like to change? Getting the install finished would be my first change. Too early to tell past that. Oh, I guess I did upgrade from the the Pioneer DEX to the Alpine F1. Haven't mentioned that in the thread or updated the subject.

Regarding the MW172s in the doors. I *highly* recommend checking out the MW182s. They might actually fit better than the MW172s. You have a very sick setup going, but I think the MW162s won't be able to keep up with the rest of your rig. Cutting up the doors is a pain, but I'd say it's well worth it for the mid-bass.

Kicks to dash pods, absolutely happy. I think it's like going from a 2-way to 3-way. You can have a really nice 2-way setup, but once you have a 3-way, it would be hard to ever go back. Same for getting the mid-range and tweets up. So many problems just go away and the stage and height is phenomenal. The pods are quite visible, but IMO well worth the "visual sacrifice" for the sound improvement. No regrets here either.

Do you have an install log going? I'd like to check it out.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Woops, I upgraded again. Couldn't pass up a great deal on this combo.

Per my previous post, I've got everything in and listening. With work, school, and family haven't been able to make serious progress.

-Scott


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

scottrwalters said:


> Design Goals:
> 
> * Goosebumps
> * Stand the hair on the back of my neck up
> ...


I just felt this needed to be 'stated' again. This is a great summary of the hobby! Especially when the equipment is settled on, a good install is completed, and a tune that satisfies the owner of the car is established. Great goals, and a worthy list to review periodically. Congrats on the F1 find!


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Hard to believe almost half a year has gone by without an update. I've had everything rough fit in for a while, and this Winter was a killer in PA. School/work = not much progress.

But it's Spring and I am getting back at it. And I figure everything is broken in nicely now.

Unfortunately, the HU/DSP are a bit glitchy. Sometimes the HU won't turn on the DSP and shows "System Check" periodically. I've tried different IONbus cables, driving the HU power directly from battery, installing a relay for the amps and still the same results. I gave Alpine a call, and it looks like I have to send the gear in.

I'm also trying to decide about my alternator, battery, and power cabling. The amps I have a total of 400A of fuses. I'm considering an HO alternator (stock is 125A, HO would be 240A), another battery in the back, and trying to figure out if 2x1/0 or 1x2/0 (00) is the right call for lead/ground. Both of which are a bit of a pain compared to 1x1/0.

I get slight headlight dim when the MW182s are really attacking. Since I'm going all out, I figure the HO alternator and extra battery are a no-brainer.

-Scott


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

any chance would you be able to tell me how much excursion the mw182's have when the volume is cranked? im in the process of putting them in my doors and am a bit curious


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## Hdale85 (Jan 21, 2012)

I have an 05 4 Motion Wagon, I like what you've done although I don't think I could live with the dash pods like that which is why I think I'll likely end up going for a 2 way setup with a sub. I'm not entirely sure yet I have to look at some stuff still. I think I could probably get the pods small enough if I could make a smaller mid work.


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> any chance would you be able to tell me how much excursion the mw182's have when the volume is cranked? im in the process of putting them in my doors and am a bit curious


Not a whole lot. I've attached two pictures. One with the grill mounted and the other without. I've never had/heard an issue from the driver on the side with the grill mounted.

I'd say, from the mounting surface, no more than 2cm, maybe only 1.5.

They still pound though.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Hdale85 said:


> I have an 05 4 Motion Wagon, I like what you've done although I don't think I could live with the dash pods like that which is why I think I'll likely end up going for a 2 way setup with a sub. I'm not entirely sure yet I have to look at some stuff still. I think I could probably get the pods small enough if I could make a smaller mid work.


Yeah, I'm clearly not going for a stealth install. I was a bit concerned too, prior to deciding to going for it. Now that I have them in place and I've gotten used to them, the sound is well worth it IMO. And for what I was trying to achieve, I needed a larger mid-range. I had the soft dome MD140 in the past, but wanted my next mid-range driver to be able to go lower.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

Time to take this thread out to pasture. My Passat's motor went last summer and got a 2008 Caddy STS. In design phase now. Will start a new thread once I get going with the build.

And any Passat owners:

I have custom midrange/tweet dash pods made for a 2000 Passat along with the Scan Speak 12M/4631G00 midranges and R3004/602000 tweeters the pods were made for for sale.

-Scott


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## scottrwalters (Jan 3, 2007)

With great pleasure I can now link to this: 

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...helix-arc-dynaudio-scanspeak.html#post5640727

-Scott


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