# The industry?



## bmxer13 (Jan 18, 2014)

Is it really that bad in the industry as some people make it? I have been thinking of leaving my welding job and do something I actually enjoy but still need to put food on the table for my family. Is the pay that bad or is it the hours? What makes people complain about it as much as they do?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

it's never what you think it is, when you're not living it.

I think anyone who feels like going into 12V right now, should do it. Life is short, but not doing what you want to do is a sentence.

don't be a sentence, be a statement!


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

And being a welder could help you make some amazing modifications for speaker locations or stealth installation! Or exotic sub boxes

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

that's right, you can always weld, but when can you weld and make people happy with audio for a living?

as a welder you could specialize in TIG enclosure builds where you tout structural reinforcement instead of people cutting things out and weakening their cars.

designing metal bracing for rear decks, making steel under-car aperiodic venting boxes, structural grill integration, custom brackets on under-hood wiring hardware...


branch out, brand your methods, create a niche in your area.


be the guy people go to for lightweight, or trail-ready boxes made of non-wood materials, give the mudders a rate for installing frame, roll-cage, wheelie bar, anti-roll..

overhead work, welding amp frame racks with safe installation overhead, digital displays, dash rebuilds, think of the opportunities...


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## bmxer13 (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks guys I'm in the process of getting my mecp so I'm hoping within the next 6 months i can find a place that will give me a chance with my industry experience


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I think you should try and find a way to start small without stoping your current welding job. I don't beleive it should be an all or nothing kind of thing, especially with a family.

I would think that having a shop... any self starting company really, would be ****y on pay and on the hours for a few years.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

I am a welder/fabricator at my day job. I also install part time at a retail mobile electronics shop, and I do have a MECP certificate.

Bottom line: The cert is virtually useless and I would not install full-time if my life depended on it if I had any other choice. The day-to-day liability issues alone that people try to pin on you will drive you insane - i.e. this place worked on the car six months ago (probably a guy who doesn't even work there anymore) and now my check engine light came on/my windows quit working/headlights went out, etc - so it must be your fault !!! 

The hours are totally unpredictable, but that's the nature of the service industry. The pay is typically anywhere between mediocre and a complete waste of time. In the middle of the summer, you might spend a whole Saturday sitting around the garage with nothing to show for it. 

The only reasons I put up with it at all are because:

A) I have time to kill
B) I am a bit of a masochist
C) The meager supplemental income funds my mobile audio addiction
D) Access to a multi-bay garage to work on personal projects 
E) Discounts on supplies and accommodation pricing on equipment

I think you get the idea.

Basically, I would not recommend it as a career choice whatsoever and I can guarantee that none of my full time co-workers would either. If you were semi-retired and have the luxury of picking & choosing the type of work that you might want to do, then it wouldn't be too bad. If you have the capital to invest in starting your own place, do yourself a favor and put it into a restaurant franchise or something until you turn enough profit to support a shop that might not generate enough revenue to buy groceries.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

bmxer13 said:


> Is it really that bad in the industry as some people make it? I have been thinking of leaving my welding job and do something I actually enjoy but still need to put food on the table for my family. Is the pay that bad or is it the hours? What makes people complain about it as much as they do?


The best you can hope for is extra cash if you want to do honest business.

If you want to sell 40$ Chinese amps for 200$+ than there is money to be made; but I don't consider that honest business.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Don't do it if you have a family to support. Do it as a hobby or some stuff on the side. You might make minimum wage to train.

Been there, done that, and wouldn't do it again.

To make money, enough to support a family, you need to either be good and fast with alarms, remote starts, and you basic deck and 4 stuff. The money isn't in custom stuff...not unless you are good and fast.

Or be a total hack.

And if you have any, I mean any love for the hobby and like working on your own stuff...stay away for it as a job. The last thing you will want to do after spending 10-12 hours working on other people's junk is to spend a few more hours working on your stuff. You install will never get done because you will only be working on something "quick and easy" so you can "throw it in there to have some tunes."

You know the old saying, "A plumber's pipes leak, a roofer's roof needs shingles, and a cobbler goes barefooted?" You will learn why that is try.

Well, atleast I did.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

This.

The bold is awesome if you are on a commission base pay.



Chaos said:


> I am a welder/fabricator at my day job. I also install part time at a retail mobile electronics shop, and I do have a MECP certificate.
> 
> Bottom line: The cert is virtually useless and I would not install full-time if my life depended on it if I had any other choice. The day-to-day liability issues alone that people try to pin on you will drive you insane - i.e. this place worked on the car six months ago (probably a guy who doesn't even work there anymore) and now my check engine light came on/my windows quit working/headlights went out, etc - so it must be your fault !!!
> 
> ...


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> Don't do it if you have a family to support. Do it as a hobby or some stuff on the side. You might make minimum wage to train.
> 
> Been there, done that, and wouldn't do it again.
> 
> ...



^Exactly.

Commission is the bane of your existence if you are an installer. If the sales staff has to cut a price to keep somebody from walking, who do you think loses money on the deal if you are not standing right there to prevent it? You are almost totally at their mercy, until you build a client base and have the latitude to quote larger projects in the rare event that the opportunity presents itself. Even then, the shop will be breathing down your neck to wrap it up as quickly as possible, because you are spending time on something that the the sales staff has no incentive to support.

Let me give you an example:

Let's say that your best friend's cousin's roommate from college comes in to see you because he wants some custom a-pillars. You think: 'Cool, this will be a fun project to learn something on plus I can make a reasonable amount of money on it.'

Sounds good?

Now imagine the same scenario, but with a pushy salesman bugging you every fifteen minutes asking why you aren't done f'ing with that tweeter yet, and are you going to get a flip down dvd player installed in that minivan before you leave tonight. Believe you me, that sort of thing sucks.

I admit that I don't know too much about the scene out in the heartland, but unless you are in a major metropolitan area or affluent little 'burb that has the market base to support big-ticket audio installs on a weekly basis, then you are going to spend your time in the bay doing anything but what you love about the pastime. Ever install a heated seat? A back-up camera in a truck when it's 3 degrees out and there are six inches of snow outside? How about a hardwired remote car starter on a BMW with _negative_ ignition wires or anything at all in any Volkswagen ever built, for that matter? (Ok, now I'm being facetious, but seriously, VWs suck to work on)

It is also true that your motivation to work on your own rig will be severely inhibited. No lie: of the dozen installers that the company I work for employs, not one of us has a complete stereo install. We all have stuff in boxes or half-assed thrown into our cars, but nobody (except me, fortunately) even remembers when we used to be really into this stuff.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

@bmxer13, I just looked up the 2014 salary guide book that somebody gave me and a welder in Omaha or Lincoln is already about $20 an hour average. This is already more than most other assembly/manufacturing/logistics jobs. Anything higher you'll have to be a supervisor or technician. There will be other good paying stuff like nursing/medical or paralegal assistant but it's not in this manufacturing/logistics copy/book. 

Anyways money is not important - always pick something that you enjoy or love to do and the days will go by faster and happier! But they don't have a book for happiness level since it's difficult to quantify it lol (different people will have different feelings for the same exact job). So, pick the job or field that you like and go from there.

Sometimes there is nothing we can plan ... it just happens because it is going to happen... and there you are in a particular field .. you will do well, you will succeed, and can sustain or flourish in it for years/decades just the same well. Best wishes to you!


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## MikeGratton (Aug 17, 2012)

If your a welder-Join the UA and weld on the pipelines/shop fab @ $45 to $65 an hour-36 hour work week-then work on audio on the weekends

United Association Homepage


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

diy.phil said:


> @bmxer13, I just looked up the 2014 salary guide book that somebody gave me and a welder in Omaha or Lincoln is already about $20 an hour average. This is already more than most other assembly/manufacturing/logistics jobs. Anything higher you'll have to be a supervisor or technician. There will be other good paying stuff like nursing/medical or paralegal assistant but it's not in this manufacturing/logistics copy/book.
> 
> Anyways money is not important - *always pick something that you enjoy or love to do and the days will go by faster and happier! * But they don't have a book for happiness level since it's difficult to quantify it lol (different people will have different feelings for the same exact job). So, pick the job or field that you like and go from there.
> 
> Sometimes there is nothing we can plan ... it just happens because it is going to happen... and there you are in a particular field .. you will do well, you will succeed, and can sustain or flourish in it for years/decades just the same well. Best wishes to you!


This is a sound principle, and it is even true to an extent. Beware - that sort of thinking is what got me into this mess. No matter what you think you know about 12v, if you were just a hobbyist before I can promise you that the learning curve is extremely steep, and can be incredibly expensive. As I said, I was already a fabricator and I have a whole garage full of typical tools at home yet I still must have spent at least $1k on specialty tools necessary for installing daily that was not subsidized in any way by the shop.

In all fairness, you might have a different experience and it isn't completely awful or nobody would do it. Speaking from personal experience as well as talking with installers across the country , I can tell you that most install bays offer a laid back atmosphere and ample opportunities to entertain ourselves when business is slow. Discipline and structure are not concepts that apply much in the install bay, and if you don't mind the downsides too much then it does have its good days. Those are just few and far between, so as long as your expectations aren't too high then there are worse ways to make a few bucks.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I hate to sound jaded, but I am.

You are thinking about leaving a skilled trade for something that is very fickle and little to no benefits other than a place to work on your own car and discounts on gear. I know a lot of installers, and a lot of great installers, but very few are making the kind of money you as a welder are able to make. I know it isn't all about the money, but once you have a family and children, money gets to be pretty important. And the longevity of you working for not a lot of money or gratitude has to be factored in if you have a family. You can make money installing and have a good life...but it is going to take a long time to get there.

Don't let my sour grapes dissuade you. But I want you to know before you make the decision what you can expect as a rookie working retail.

There will be the cars where the customer wants an amp installed and the trunk is literally filled with old food, clothes, and soiled clothes. There will be the salesman who wants to charge $5 to hardwire a radar detector. There will be the power locks that cost $75 to install, heated seats, cruise controls, power window kits, adding extra tweeters for $15 though it is as much labor as a deck or amp install...

The cool stuff you see on here is few and far between (around here).

But you never know, you could be the next Chris Yato or Gary Biggs or Steve Brown or Brian Schmitt.

Hell, take all of the Mobile Solutions classes...they show some serious fab stuff.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Benefits?!!!????


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*cough*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha...




Once I caught my breath - 'cause I was really laughing at the computer - I remembered that I have heard of one or two places that offer some health care and maybe a 401k, but it is not anything like what you could expect as a skilled tradesman. Funny thing is, installing mobile electronics takes every bit as much skill as welding, machining, etc but with the exception of a few seminars and RTTI (if that even still exists) there is practically no legitimate formal system in place for training or standards.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Similar story here.

What you think you know and know how to do...forget it cause the rules change once you go pro.

I loved car audio before I got into the field, still love it to this day. But loving car audio and working in the field became to be two separate things. you do so much more than car audio as a pro- radar detectors, cruise controls, power locks, power windows, under body neon, alarms, keyless entry, tracking devices for the pay here car lots, breathalyzer stuff so you can't start your car if you have been drinking, heated seats, rear window defrosters (probably not much of that these days), wheels and tires, back up cameras, running boards, and basically anything that can be bolted on or added to a vehicle (seriously). 




Chaos said:


> This is a sound principle, and it is even true to an extent. Beware - that sort of thinking is what got me into this mess. No matter what you think you know about 12v, if you were just a hobbyist before I can promise you that the learning curve is extremely steep, and can be incredibly expensive. As I said, I was already a fabricator and I have a whole garage full of typical tools at home yet I still must have spent at least $1k on specialty tools necessary for installing daily that was not subsidized in any way by the shop.
> 
> In all fairness, you might have a different experience and it isn't completely awful or nobody would do it. Speaking from personal experience as well as talking with installers across the country , I can tell you that most install bays offer a laid back atmosphere and ample opportunities to entertain ourselves when business is slow. Discipline and structure are not concepts that apply much in the install bay, and if you don't mind the downsides too much then it does have its good days. Those are just few and far between, so as long as your expectations aren't too high then there are worse ways to make a few bucks.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

^Sadly, that sort of diversification is what it takes for a retail shop to pay the bills. It is also what makes it so frustrating. You never know what you are going to walk into, or what it might take to accomplish. Sure, some things can be memorized if you see enough of the same vehicle, but even guys who have been at it for years still have to learn how to take apart every new car as it comes out.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You need to be part mechanic, part body man, part upholster, part electrician, part fabricator, part woodworker...and be one sarcastic SOB (maybe not that, but a lot of installers I know are that way and have a seriously twisted sense of humor while at work).

You have to wear many hats, be proficient in them all, and stay on top of technology- cars and electronics are getting more complicated by the year...multiplex this, BUS system that.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Ain't that the truth.

And on that note, I need to leave now and get to the shop. 

Joy.


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## bmxer13 (Jan 18, 2014)

Chaos said:


> ^Exactly.
> 
> Commission is the bane of your existence if you are an installer. If the sales staff has to cut a price to keep somebody from walking, who do you think loses money on the deal if you are not standing right there to prevent it? You are almost totally at their mercy, until you build a client base and have the latitude to quote larger projects in the rare event that the opportunity presents itself. Even then, the shop will be breathing down your neck to wrap it up as quickly as possible, because you are spending time on something that the the sales staff has no incentive to support.
> 
> ...


Funny thing is that I do own a vw and your right if I had even the slightest clue of how big of a pain in the ass they are to work on I would of never gotten myself wrapped up into one. 

As for the welding aspect I work for a company that builds bridges for union Pacific. Job is decent co workers are great but the fact that you may get seriously hurt or die at any given moment in the shop is what really makes me want to get out of it. Honestly I'd love to get into the industry but from what everyone's been saying your gonna get burned out working on everyone else's crap before you even get to start on your own.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Well, I can certainly appreciate the hazards of construction on that scale and understand why you would want to avoid it. The company I weld at manufactures relatively light duty steel & aluminum tubular products - nothing resembling bridges. We do occasionally order parts from other fab shops that do supply the heavy construction industry, so I have seen what that type of place is like and it can be daunting. There was a bridge built here a couple of years ago, and I know that at least one person died during the project. It doesn't get more serious than that.

Still, there must be a dozen other jobs you are already qualified for that would offer less potential for disaster with comparable wages & benefits. To put this in perspective: I know two co-workers who were severely injured by accidentally deployed air bags. Fortunately, they did not have any long term physical damage that I have heard about, but these were both seasoned pros with years of experience who made one slight error and had it literally blow up in their faces. Both of them left the company (one was fired on the spot, the other one found another job). If you were working on underbody lights, a back-up camera or reverse sensors, a car could fall on you. To be perfectly blunt, your family would be better off if you fell from a bridge. At least then they would have some benefits. If you were seriously injured and/or permanently disabled working in a garage, you could wind up unable to work. If - heaven forbid - you were actually killed on the job, not only would your family be left with nothing but the entire shop would be sued out of existence and everybody working there would be out of a job.

Besides the obvious issues associated with an event like that, the financial liability alone could ruin your entire year. Replacing airbags or a damaged BCM (body control module) can cost you thousands of dollars out of your own pocket, and never mind the busted sill plates and dash trim pieces that you will inevitably break and have to buy new ones. You think a shop owner is going to cover that on their insurance? Yeah fu(king right! I'm not just talking about rookie mistakes or bad luck. This sort of thing happens to experienced installers every day. Part of it is hubris and part of it is apathy. I walk a very fine line because I am not as completely jaded as the full timers and still try to do a good job (treat every car like it was mine), but every hour I spend in the bay is filled with the same risks. Honest to goodness, the primary motivation that installers have to do a decent job is classic negative reinforcement. If they hack things up too badly, then the car comes back until it is put right. That is wasted time which prohibits you from working on paying jobs. 

Spending half the year with hands so raw and sore that you can barely hold a tool is not fun. You know what a common topic of conversation in a garage during the winter is? It isn't frequency response or system tuning - its what type of skin moisturizer heals your hands the fastest while not being to greasy to work. That is the glamorous world of mobile electronics installation.

I get that you want to try something new and it isn't really any of my business, but installing full time is a young man's game who has no family to support and can tolerate the crazy hours / crappy pay for years before either moving on to something better or finally becoming sought after enough to really make some money. Like anything else, success is possible but far from assured. Maybe you could become a great installer, but I wouldn't recommend it under any circumstances unless you have a solid contingency plan to fall back on.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I got carpal tunnel from it...and that ruined a lot of things for me that I love to do- play guitar, ride motorcycles, work on my own car, give my wife back rubs, pick up my children when they (my hands) are hurting really bad...

Make sure you stretch your hands and wrists a few times a day...cause your crimpers and drill will be in your hands 90% of the day.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm going to echo what thehatedguy and Chaos have said. In fact I'm telling you.. don't do it! You're in a skilled profession that's always in demand. Build on that. 

Car Audio has changed. The stuff and people you see on here rarely reflect what goes on in the "real world".


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Skilled welder makes way more money end of story. don't mix work and hobby. Install for your friends, relatives, people on craigslist when you have time and make a buck on a side. when you have kids there no such thing as too much money.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> Don't do it if you have a family to support. Do it as a hobby or some stuff on the side. You might make minimum wage to train.
> 
> Been there, done that, and wouldn't do it again.
> 
> ...


No truer words said.
The best way to ruin a hobby is to get a job doing it.
Which explains why I have a 67 convertible mustang that I've owned for over 30 years now and never driven.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Victor_inox said:


> Skilled welder makes way more money end of story. don't mix work and hobby. Install for your friends, relatives, people on craigslist when you have time and make a buck on a side. when you have kids there no such thing as too much money.


Don't you do amp repairs on the side too? 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Don't you do amp repairs on the side too?
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


I do a lot of things on a side,amps repair not included in that list just yet.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Victor_inox said:


> I do a lot of things on a side,amps repair not included in that list just yet.


Sorry Victor,
After that other thread, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to take a poke at you on that subject. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

I knew this thread was going to go overwhelmingly negative on the whole, so I got my positive strike in early...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Sorry Victor,
> After that other thread, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to take a poke at you on that subject.
> 
> 
> ...


It`s all good.Funny enough I just fixed big ass Adcom 5800. not without some remote help but nonetheless.Bought it off CLfor $60 blowing fuses. great condition otherwise. $3 rectifier later works great.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't know how it went negative...few folks in here who either have done it for a living or currently do it for a living (ok, one is part time) kept it honest and real.




cajunner said:


> I knew this thread was going to go overwhelmingly negative on the whole, so I got my positive strike in early...


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> I don't know how it went negative...few folks in here who either have done it for a living or currently do it for a living (ok, one is part time) kept it honest and real.


the last few threads I've seen on this subject have mostly gone the one way.

Don't do it.

Stick with a paying job.

Don't risk your money.

etc.

and I figured it would happen again, and if this guy is pursuing his MECP, I think he's already considering a career change and loading him down with information that he's crazy to want to get into 12V...

I know a lot of welders, and it's not always in a shop, or climate controlled, or on clean work. You have this guy, and he's tired of welding. I know a lot of tired welders. Guys that burn out on it, have to do something else.

maybe the job satisfaction of welders is lower than 12V, in some parts of the country, maybe not... the pay is high right now for welders, and if you're specialized in one field you can still go to another, he can move from bridge builder work to pipeline, or ship yard, or whatever. Since he's not doing that, I figured why discourage him?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

MECP certification means about as much as the paper it is printed on...back in the day it meant something, but not so much these days.

I just wanted him to be aware of the fact that he would be making minimum wage (or near it) starting out, and there is more non audio stuff than audio stuff...and the audio stuff you do might be adding a 2nd set of tweeters, not this custom stuff where he would actually get to fabricate a lot of stuff and his welding back ground would be useful.

And if you have a family to provide for, it's going to be a rough ride...and one I wouldn't willingly subject my kids to if I had any choice in the matter.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

cajunner said:


> I knew this thread was going to go overwhelmingly negative on the whole, so I got my positive strike in early...


You call it negative, we call it realistic. 

We can all reasonably agree that some industry's are better than others. Alot of us are 'stuck' doing it because it's what we've done forever and are too deep to just get out. With a wide array of industry's for one to choose from today (2014), I don't see why 12volt would be even considered.


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## CRUNK (May 9, 2013)

Say in Welding do car audio as a hobby or side work, 12volt is dead and has been for awhile car's are only becoming more of a nightmare.


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Don't do it if you have a family to support. Do it as a hobby or some stuff on the side. You might make minimum wage to train.
> 
> Been there, done that, and wouldn't do it again.
> 
> ...


All the above statements are very true...I havent had a system in any of my vehicles in about 6-7 years although i put in hundreds and hundreds. Having worked at a shop I can say i had good times because I was working with high school buddies with 15+ years of friendships. we all were and vstill are very passionate about car audio. In the early 90's when we was installing systems in our cars at carwashes to get out of the rain, we would have never thought years later we would all be doing it for a living.....THAT WAS THE BLESSING.....The downside to working at a shop in my instance was unexpected issues that kept you there late, and basically everything mentioned in previous posts......My TRUE CAR AUDIO HAPPINESS has been from having a "regular 9-5 job and doing installs after work and weekends....You are your own boss, You have full creative control, You can turn down silly projects your heart is not in, I never felt rushed.......In my opinion having done both That is the best way Financially and for personal satisfaction.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

CRUNK said:


> Say in Welding do car audio as a hobby or side work, *12volt is dead and has been for awhile* car's are only becoming more of a nightmare.


I will disagree with you on this. It isn't "dead" it has just changed along with the market. There are just so many different products available now that didn't exist ten years ago and so many reasons why people want them. The vast majority of audio related jobs are still swapping out source units and/or replacing blown OEM speakers, and while there are still people willing to purchase bigger systems, most of those are focused on the popular trend of "pro" audio style builds which are designed for getting attention with high SPL out on the street. Sound quality has nothing to do with it. 

There are still markets which support genuine high-fidelity installs, and those are catered to by a select few with the knowledge and skill to profit from it. The competition scene, both SPL and SQ, continues to draw new participation and we have entered a phase where the people who pioneered this hobby as a competitive pastime now have the time and disposable income to build some truly innovative systems. The difference is that those people (aka - those of us here) are generally DIYers and generally do not employ the services of a typical modern day 12v retailer.

I will however agree that cars are definitely becoming more sophisticated at a relentless pace. I remember when having a/c and an automatic transmission was considered luxury. Now, if you get a flat tire, even the cheapest chevy has a button that you can push for somebody else to come and change it for you while you browse teh web on your phone.


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## bmxer13 (Jan 18, 2014)

cajunner said:


> the last few threads I've seen on this subject have mostly gone the one way.
> 
> Don't do it.
> 
> ...


Reviving this old thread after I reread it all again. This guy explains exactly how I feel about it. Working in a shop that's -20 in the winter and pushing 130 in the summer. It wears on your body. Right now weve been working everyday since labor day because our engineers and contractors have their heads up eachothers asses. I may take a pay cut and honestly im ok with that. Im not worried about the money just as long as I have enough to live on.


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## BoostedNihilist (Mar 3, 2008)

Installing has traditionally been a way to get your skill base established before going on to a real skilled trade or engineering course. Going from welding to car audio is a step backwards. 

Also, yeah, it's totally different doing it as a job. It's not a tough job to own a car and install some gear into it.. but know that for the first year at least you are going to be fighting the curve pretty hard core, and the resources are limited.

It's stressful too. You have to be on time with your releases or it cascades and customers get pissed... oh and you have to do all this when on the phone explaining to the old lady that she has once again put her starter into valet mode and it isn't the units fault...

Trust me... run dude.


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

There are many other jobs in welding besides making bridges. Take a look around and you may see something you like. May need to get some extra certs for welding things like aircraft ect but staying in a trade is a gift.

Josh


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

BoostedNihilist said:


> Trust me... run dude.


^THIS. :laugh:


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## CRUNK (May 9, 2013)

Updates???


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## bmxer13 (Jan 18, 2014)

CRUNK said:


> Updates???


Decided to stay out of the industry and stay with welding. Starting the union in march. More money and education


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## CRUNK (May 9, 2013)

bmxer13 said:


> Decided to stay out of the industry and stay with welding. Starting the union in march. More money and education


GOOD CALL !!!!


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