# Image Dynamics - version 4 subs



## Griffith

So I went to check Image Dynamics' website and saw that they now have version 4 of the Idmax and IDQ. 

The 12" Idmax recommended sealed enclosure is 2.5 cu ft. That's just way too big. Not good.


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## RNBRAD

Griffith said:


> So I went to check Image Dynamics' website and saw that they now have version 4 of the Idmax and IDQ.
> 
> The 12" Idmax recommended sealed enclosure is 2.5 cu ft. That's just way too big. Not good.


You must of read it for the wrong sub. The 12'' is 1.5 for sealed and 2.5 for ported. The 15'' is 2.5 sealed.


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## DonH

do not believe anything on the website untill someone does a legit pull of tsp's Image has some "engineers" that are junk....


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## ImageDynamicsTech

Hey Guys. This is Frankie the Tech Director at ID. We are still waiting on a finalized IDMax 15" but if you are interested, I will provide test data. We are currently waiting on a more supple surround and spider to be produced. Once we get it in about a week and change, we'll get updated T/S parameters and I'll be sure to get em to ya so you all can model away to your hearts content. It's gonna be a very impressive driver and it's similar to our other IDQs in it's actually a 16"... So no prefab for this bad boy. LOL. Otherwise we're kicking around the idea for a small format mid to incorporate to our existing component kits. Let me know what sizes you guys might like us to look into. Also I'm currently in the process of beta testing a prototype slim IDQ 10" which should be upon completion about 3.5" deep with a sealed back and..... RECONABLE! You guys are pivotal to our research so any suggestions from here on out... send me an email!

Best regards, 
Frankie - Image Dynamics Technical Director


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## 04silverz

The white whale appears finally?! Idmax 15.
Any idea on pricing?


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## BuickGN

Looking forward to this one...


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## ImageDynamicsTech

Yep. $679. MSRP. Similar excursion characteristics as the 12 and Little 10. Hmmm anybody want? Oh yeah reconable just like the other ones too. Ahh the fun I get to play with all these protos and beat the hell out of them before I give them my blessings.... Because what good is a big bore 15 if it won't sound great AND give you head shredding reference levels... All whilst keeping it's composure. If you ask me these things are gonna absolutely fly off the shelves at this price point to performance/SPL factor. Keep the inquiries comin boys! I'm here to brutalize things all in the name of you guys!

Best regards, 
Frankie - ID Technical Director


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## edzyy

$679?

Jeez.


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## 04silverz

Seems a bit high but lets see what the stores sell them for.


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## PPI_GUY

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Yep. $679. MSRP. Similar excursion characteristics as the 12 and Little 10. Hmmm anybody want? Oh yeah reconable just like the other ones too. Ahh the fun I get to play with all these protos and beat the hell out of them before I give them my blessings.... Because what good is a big bore 15 if it won't sound great AND give you head shredding reference levels... All whilst keeping it's composure. If you ask me these things are gonna absolutely fly off the shelves at this price point to performance/SPL factor. Keep the inquiries comin boys! I'm here to brutalize things all in the name of you guys!
> 
> Best regards,
> Frankie - ID Technical Director


The best thing you can do (IMHO) is to keep checking in. Stay visible on this board. We've seen factory folks say they will be here to answer questions and provide support. Then, 'poof' they're gone, never to be seen or heard from again. You'll also notice that the brands that have some of the strongest support here are those that maintain strong lines of communication with their customers. Open dialogue on this board is one great way to do that. 
Alot of people on this site really like and use ID products. I'm one of them. Looking forward to seeing what your new products look (and more importantly) sound like!


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## BuickGN

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Yep. $679. MSRP. Similar excursion characteristics as the 12 and Little 10. Hmmm anybody want? Oh yeah reconable just like the other ones too. Ahh the fun I get to play with all these protos and beat the hell out of them before I give them my blessings.... Because what good is a big bore 15 if it won't sound great AND give you head shredding reference levels... All whilst keeping it's composure. If you ask me these things are gonna absolutely fly off the shelves at this price point to performance/SPL factor. Keep the inquiries comin boys! I'm here to brutalize things all in the name of you guys!
> 
> Best regards,
> Frankie - ID Technical Director


Can you give out the cone area?

I currently have a pair of 15s which I love, was about to pull the trigger on a pair of 13W7s mostly for the sake of change, and then these pop up. I am mostly curious on the displacement of your new 15s vs the 13W7. Xmech is of importance to me as well as linear excursion.


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK just remember that's MSRP. Figure in our Dealer Price List for 2013... The MAX 12 and 10 are $549.99 and $499.99 respectively... so just keep in mind what dealers actually sell them for. Plus look at JL's 13W7... $1099 retail. And the 12W7 MSRP is $750. Ya gotta figure how much output difference there will be sincethis driver will have the same throw as the MAX12 and the cone area of a 16". Translates to me into a better buy...
Of course the driver will sell for a bit less from dealers.

Best regards, 
Frankie - ID Technical Director


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK measured across the cone...from mid surround on both edges... 14". A conventional 15" I measured at 13". Turning it to cm2. I get 992.643 for SD for the MAX15 and 855.9 cm2 SD for the standard 15". That's 14% more cone area than a standard 15". I'll get you the measured Xmax and Xmech when the production driver is finalized. As for mounting diameter this driver needs 14.75" and edge to edge of the basket is 15.75"

Best regards, 
Frankie - ID Tech Director


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK then how about some input for me concerning a 3 way kit? We're kicking the idea around and I'd personally like end user's feedback. Dome? Cone? 2.5", 3".... a la carte? Complete kit? Add on to existing kits? etc etc etc. Otherwise how about interest in slim IDQs? I'll post spy pics and results of my tests if anyone is intersted.... they should yield 2/3 of the performance of a standard IDQ. All with a bit over half of the mounting depth.... and Reconable... And at a bit over half of the cost of competing higher end offerings....
Projected MSRP $349 -12"
$299 - 10"
$?? - 8" - Anyone?

BTW I try to get on more but they work me so hard doing everything here BESIDES tech, I promise to do my best to get on board more. 

Best regards, 

Frankie- ID Tech Director


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## [email protected]

13w7 22162.528cm2 3435.1987103974207in2

IDmax15 24716.811cm2 3831.1133672267347in2

IDMax15 has about 10% more displacement it looks like.


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## [email protected]

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK then how about some input for me concerning a 3 way kit? We're kicking the idea around and I'd personally like end user's feedback. Dome? Cone? 2.5", 3".... a la carte? Complete kit? Add on to existing kits? etc etc etc. Otherwise how about interest in slim IDQs? I'll post spy pics and results of my tests if anyone is intersted.... they should yield 2/3 of the performance of a standard IDQ. All with a bit over half of the mounting depth.... and Reconable... And at a bit over half of the cost of competing higher end offerings....
> Projected MSRP $349 -12"
> $299 - 10"
> $?? - 8" - Anyone?
> 
> BTW I try to get on more but they work me so hard doing everything here BESIDES tech, I promise to do my best to get on board more.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Frankie- ID Tech Director



I would love to see some info on the shallow IDQ's

As for the set, I would think it would be more appealing with a small cone driver, something like a 3" or 3.5" that can handle a crossover point of about 250-300hz well. That way the vocals will becoming from the midrange and not dipping into the midbass. That would give the potential for moutning up high or down low for the midrange and tweet. I dont think a dome would be as good IMO.


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## thehatedguy

A modern IDW would be good...but I got my first ID products in 1995 and was on the competition team in the first part of 2000, so I am a bit old school.


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## ImageDynamicsTech

From what's been said the IDW was simply an EV driver that I can't seem to find so maybe you could check there for an equivalent... Otherwise I'm all for it but the powers that be want to see sales figures before they approve any more projects. Just like the former horns can be rediaphragmed with Selenium and B&C parts... just saying... 

Best regards, 

Frankie - ID Technical Director


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK well to put it in better perspective... I had a shop about 8 years ago and had a great customer of mine who I built a pretty formidable system with Utopia Focal seps, 2 13W7s and MMats amplification. Had a 2200DHCx pushing the pair of 13W7s vented. At that point I was an Oz Audio dealer and was selling through the Matrix Elites like hotcakes.... So I got him a pair of the 15" Elites and went vented with those with the same amp... BIG difference in output. Customer was very happy and I'd suspect that this will even be more pronounce since it has more area than the Matrix... gee wish I had one to test it against. I think you'll be very happy with the outcome once we get it complete for shipping. I'm actually going to test the prototype this week and it doesn't even have the more compliant surround and spider. But I'll let you guys know anyway...

Best regards, 

Frankie - ID


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## thehatedguy

Wasn't an Electro-Voice driver...I know that for a fact, I've reconed them with factory parts.


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## thehatedguy

I was speaking more of a really SQ oriented driver, something like the company was founded on. But with more output.


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## 04silverz

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK just remember that's MSRP. Figure in our Dealer Price List for 2013... The MAX 12 and 10 are $549.99 and $499.99 respectively... so just keep in mind what dealers actually sell them for. Plus look at JL's 13W7... $1099 retail. And the 12W7 MSRP is $750. Ya gotta figure how much output difference there will be sincethis driver will have the same throw as the MAX12 and the cone area of a 16". Translates to me into a better buy...
> Of course the driver will sell for a bit less from dealers.
> 
> Best regards,
> Frankie - ID Technical Director


Im sure its worth every penny, just sticker shock. Most of us here bargain hunt and when thinking of dropping 500 on one sub, well u better hope as a consumer its a hit and not a miss. I wouod hate to drop that coin and be dissapointed. Though based on the several idmax ive owned and the cx mids i have, id doubt i would be dissapointed. 



BeatsDownLow said:


> I would love to see some info on the shallow IDQ's
> 
> As for the set, I would think it would be more appealing with a small cone driver, something like a 3" or 3.5" that can handle a crossover point of about 250-300hz well. That way the vocals will becoming from the midrange and not dipping into the midbass. That would give the potential for moutning up high or down low for the midrange and tweet. I dont think a dome would be as good IMO.


I agree about the 3-3.5" range though take that with a grain of salt, ive just begun to ponder switching to three way. I would think offering it as both a complete set as well as an additional option to buy it separate for those who already have a two way system or for those on the board who like to order and test new drivers


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## fischman

I'm loving my limited testing I've done with my IDQv3 I just picked up on these boards. I would be interested in slim versions for sure! Also, Slim 8"s would be great, something with under 3.5" depth, preferably under 3" depth.

As for a 3 way, I would love an option with 4"/3.5" cone mid and 8"/7" midbass. I think with a shallow 8"/7" playing up to 200hz or so and the 4"/3.5" playing up to the tweet, you could have a nice set. Most people can massage a 7 or 8 into an opening for a 6.5 as long as the magnet isn't too deep and/or too wide.

Can't wait to see what you have in store, and look forward to your presence on the forums!

Josh


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## fish

If you guys could supply a 4" mid with a very small diameter mounting flange & a 2" or less mounting depth that would be great!


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK I hear ya and agree 1000% I'd love a large format pro-type driver too.... But right now our SQ type drivers are really the MAX being our flagship. And to everyone else who chimed in many thanks for the responses. I'm going to forward this to the PTB and see what we come up with. We're also in the process of refreshing and downsizing our Q series to make it more current with modern size, sq, and power requirements. Also we may be researching micro type amps to appease and be marketable to the motorcycle, powersport, and marine application. Now excuse me I have to go tack a test box together for the IDQ-S 10.... 

Best regards, 

Frankie - ID Tech Director


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## trojan fan

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> I get to play with all these protos and beat the hell out of them before I give them my blessings.r


Did you get Eric's blessing also


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## quality_sound

BeatsDownLow said:


> 13w7 22162.528cm2 3435.1987103974207in2
> 
> IDmax15 24716.811cm2 3831.1133672267347in2
> 
> IDMax15 has about 10% more displacement it looks like.


Not bad considering its three inches larger. Why don't we compare the Max12 to an 8W7 while we're at it...


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## ImageDynamicsTech

Sorry never met Eric. I was too busy with my own shops and working in the pits. This working on the manufacturing level is new to me so I'm more of a "hands on" kinda guy. Manufacturing seems to care nowadays more about moving boxes than innovating anymore. If you guys haven't realized the last time ID had some new products was AWHILE ago. New crew and new motivation. So gee look here new products because we hear what you guys were saying... just needed to clean house to get **** done. And we're not taking NO for an answer. So if you wanna see new products, stay tuned... because ****s comin down the pipe. This whole Eric thing has been beaten to death. We still have the same parts going into our IDQ and Maxes, just more improved. Same guy(s) assembling them... and yes we're weeding out the crap that makes our products weak in spots. We're going to have more new products very soon and IF you guys want I'll stick around and give you guys the details.. If not just say so and I'll split.

-Frankie


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## 04silverz

Hoping u stick around
Great to see some movement from ID finally as u mention. The new max has me really excited as its my favorite sub


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## RNBRAD

Yes, definitely stick around. Not sure about the whole Eric thing myself, nore care as long as you guys move forward. Wish the company all the best because we need company's like ID to continue to make awesome car audio products.


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## evangojason

I for one would like to see a 3" wide-bandwidth midrange.


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## trojan fan

evangojason said:


> I for one would like to see a 3" wide-bandwidth midrange.


Exactly!...x2


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## releasedtruth

Looking forward to some new 8" models, but not slims.


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## thehatedguy

Tell Dan to hurry up with the xS8.


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## rc10mike

I guess I missed it somehow...but whats the real difference between the v3 and v4?


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## mos805

I sent you an email ImageDynamicsTech regarding a sub I have from your company, hopefully you are able to help me out.


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## strong*I*bumpin

A IDQ 12" Slim would be something I'm interested in to against the JL TW5's.Still rocking my IDQ 12 v.2 after 6yrs.,so lets do this Frankie


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## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> Not bad considering its three inches larger. Why don't we compare the Max12 to an 8W7 while we're at it...


We could, but the question wasnt about the 8w7. We could have talked about the price difference also, but that was not part of the displacement question, was it?

I would say not bad, as the 13w7 out displaces many 15's on the market


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## rcurley55

RNBRAD said:


> You must of read it for the wrong sub. The 12'' is 1.5 for sealed and 2.5 for ported. The 15'' is 2.5 sealed.


It's hard to blame him for the mistake - the website is a mess. I fail to understand why it is so hard for car audio companies to put out a decent website. It's so simple, yet the smaller companies continue to have issues with it (think Zapco, Arc Audio, etc.). 

Web presence is so important that it makes it hard to take you guys seriously when you have site riddled with errors.


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## ousooner2

Dammit ID!! I was content 

Looks like there's going to be a good possibility of a 15" IDmax HT build soon. Love my 12". Hopefully the price isn't through the roof though. The Stereo Integrity 15" for $180 seems like a steal


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## ousooner2

BuickGN said:


> Can you give out the cone area?
> 
> I currently have a pair of 15s which I love, was about to pull the trigger on a pair of 13W7s mostly for the sake of change, and then these pop up. I am mostly curious on the displacement of your new 15s vs the 13W7. Xmech is of importance to me as well as linear excursion.


Hahah...I see you're still always changing. I had to stop visiting here and A-zine so I'd stop wanting to change so often also. If you decide to get rid of those 13w7's...let me know! I might use those for a HT sub setup



ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK then how about some input for me concerning a 3 way kit? We're kicking the idea around and I'd personally like end user's feedback. Dome? Cone? 2.5", 3".... a la carte? Complete kit? Add on to existing kits? etc etc etc. Otherwise how about interest in slim IDQs? I'll post spy pics and results of my tests if anyone is intersted.... they should yield 2/3 of the performance of a standard IDQ. All with a bit over half of the mounting depth.... and Reconable... And at a bit over half of the cost of competing higher end offerings....
> Projected MSRP $349 -12"
> $299 - 10"
> $?? - 8" - Anyone?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Frankie- ID Tech Director


3" wide bandwidth midrange ftw. I think the idea of some shallow 8's for door applications would be awesome too. I know Dynaudio offers one (Buick..you still have those? I forget the mounting depth on them), but those would probably bring in a ton of money from most that don't want to glass pods or don't have a lot of depth.


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## el_bob-o

A shallow 8 or 10 that plays linear up to the high pass requirements of a 3" wide band driver would be nice.


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## RNBRAD

rcurley55 said:


> It's hard to blame him for the mistake - the website is a mess. I fail to understand why it is so hard for car audio companies to put out a decent website. It's so simple, yet the smaller companies continue to have issues with it (think Zapco, Arc Audio, etc.).
> 
> Web presence is so important that it makes it hard to take you guys seriously when you have site riddled with errors.


Amen!! Company's need to realize that our first impression many times comes from their website. If they can't get that right, what else should I be worried about?


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## 04silverz

rcurley55 said:


> It's hard to blame him for the mistake - the website is a mess. I fail to understand why it is so hard for car audio companies to put out a decent website. It's so simple, yet the smaller companies continue to have issues with it (think Zapco, Arc Audio, etc.).
> 
> Web presence is so important that it makes it hard to take you guys seriously when you have site riddled with errors.


Havent been to arc's lately but it was quite a mess for a while. Id used to have a decent one with its own forum. That went away a while ago

Just remembered the one i was on recently that annoyed me, american bass' is terrible


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK well as for a bit more up to the minute info... Javier updates our facebook page quite often and poses questions for feedback. I'm trying my best here to appease as many people as possible. I let our speaker engineer know that you guys are looking forward to something approx 3" that'd dig down to say 200-300hz. first and foremost he's trying to finalize designs on the prototype shallows for beta testing. As even more looking to finalize a production MAX 15 before Chinese new year. Yes of course the soft parts and such are tooled there but it's a 2.5" American coil that should in all respects be capable of handling 1300-1500 rms. And it will be assembled in house. As for the shallow 8", we'll see how the 12" and 10" are received first... and same for additional 8s in the line. As for Dan he left last July... he did build a proto MAX 8 that never saw the light of day. I'm itching to power it to see how it does actually. These newer products, not including the MAX 15 will most likely be CES2014 material. As for the V.4 IDQs the only main difference is the steel basket... (Thank god for that) As for the Max's Cone geometry is being improved upon, and Spider Assembly is improved. I'll dig into him about more details as I get them.


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## 04silverz

Haha idmax 8. Never even thought of that. I'd like to test that out as well. 
Thanks for the updates


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## RNBRAD

Idq v4 steel basket? Doing away with the composite?


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## quality_sound

BeatsDownLow said:


> We could, but the question wasnt about the 8w7. We could have talked about the price difference also, but that was not part of the displacement question, was it?
> 
> I would say not bad, as the 13w7 out displaces many 15's on the market


The point was we're not comparing comparable drivers. And even with that 3-inch handicap the 13W7 is BARELY beaten by the Max15. Sure the W7 costs more but having owned IDMaxes and W7s I'd pay the extra for a W7 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

If we want comparable, compare the 12s. Oddly, ID isn't interested in THAT comparison...


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## RNBRAD

quality_sound said:


> The point was we're not comparing comparable drivers. And even with that 3-inch handicap the 13W7 is BARELY beaten by the Max15. Sure the W7 costs more but having owned IDMaxes and W7s I'd pay the extra for a W7 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
> 
> If we want comparable, compare the 12s. Oddly, ID isn't interested in THAT comparison...


Dude it was a simple cone size comparison, nothing more nothing less and you get all bent out of shape. How you going to compare a 13" sub and a 16" sub to other comparable drivers? You know of any? Trust me when I say we all understand the sub size difference here. No one is stepping on your JL's so try and control your sensitivity issues and this thread will be a lot more beneficial.


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## quality_sound

I don't even own a JL sub...


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## RNBRAD

quality_sound said:


> I don't even own a JL sub...


Ok, so you have deeper issues. Get over it!!


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## ImageDynamicsTech

The composite basket was the source of some headaches and I'm not saying a ton but enough to garner us to 86 it. In the end everyone will benefit from the steel and it's still field reconable so any less headache is better if you ask me. I like our customers to be happy. Yea quality, I understand what your saying about the W7. It's impressive for what it does. I actually went through the whole W7 second coming of Christ training back when it was first released... heard all the stuff about how great the glues were and being torture tested with a pair of 10000 watt crown amps... But something that made me cringe was the whole "floating cone attachment" thing. I dunno nothing like a cone that warbles at high excursion to make me really feel comfortable about a drivers clean output capabilities. Just saying, I realize our surround is nothing special and tends to deform at extreme excursion. I'm gonna see if I can get a 12W7 in here to have an A/B comparison. Of course PTB are always worried about me even buying blades or glues let alone something that could REALLY HELP...LOL.


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## thehatedguy

I hated the composite baskets. I cracked nearly every xS mid basket that I had put in. I told Eric about my frustrations with them...but I don't know if you guys are going to change the mid baskets.

The tall narrow surround has to deform or pucker at high excursion...just the geometry of it. I liked the tall surround better than the bike tire tubed sized ones that were getting popular when I was installing for a living in the early part of the 2000s.

How about some copper in the motor of the xS speakers? Maybe a copper pole cap or a ring under the undercut pole? Those speakers have a very advanced cone and a nice motor...but some copper or aluminum demodulating rings would step that speaker up a notch or two IMO.


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## RNBRAD

I always like the aluminum baskets. Be nice to see some custom basket with polished, brushed or anodized colors for custom installs. That's just me though, im a chrome and polish freak, and most people don't display their baskets. Be trick for IB installs though or plexiglas window boxes etc. but hey, can always chrome metal.


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## ImageDynamicsTech

Hello Hated... glad to finally make your cyber acquaintance. I think we have plans.... but of course we have plans to increase our sales 100 fold as well! lol I was told that the motor for the XS mids actually costs more than an IDMAX 12 motor. Go figure... I'm not privy to the cost end of things.... so as for improving the XS I believe that for our next order of cones, Mark our acoustical engineer has focused on the cone body and making it more impervious to moisture and heat... seems in hotter, wetter climates the cones after awhile tend to deform. Also we have a few people telling us there are issues with the tinsel leads attaching to the underside of the former under the spider seems to break free under heavy use... We are addressing the adhesive joint there as well. I believe that Mark is going to address the composite basket and try to strengthen it as well. The copper ideas sound great. We have to sell through the stocked inventory we have so as to get improved gear in house. I will try my best to relay all concerns about reliability and possible improvement ideas to the PTB. Thanks for the input!

- Frankie


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## ImageDynamicsTech

Aluminum baskets and chroming are MUY spensive! lol All the pretty pretty costs money that the company doesn't have at his point. We will do our best to hear all advice posed to us and address it as best we can... gonna focus on the MAX 15 and getting functional slim drivers and an update for the Q series to refresh it and downsize them. 

- Frankie


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## ImageDynamicsTech

OK just spoke to Mark... He says that he is currently working on improving the baskets for the CXS and XS drivers and it will be a running change along with the improved cone geometry and stock. It will definitely depend heavily on how long we sit on current stock levels of the existing component sets. 

- Frankie


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## ImageDynamicsTech

I'm also going to run in the MAX 15 proto today or tmrw starting in a 2.25 cu ft gross sealed cabinet. That way I'll have a somewhat objective opinion on the almost doneness of this beast.

- Frankie


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## RNBRAD

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Aluminum baskets and chroming are MUY spensive! lol All the pretty pretty costs money that the company doesn't have at his point. We will do our best to hear all advice posed to us and address it as best we can... gonna focus on the MAX 15 and getting functional slim drivers and an update for the Q series to refresh it and downsize them.
> 
> - Frankie


It is expensive, but it a service that you sub contract out yet provide the option to your customer. It's only a little initial cost to the company that is then passed on to the customer. So if I call and need a custom sub, anodized red or plated, it can be done for a cost to me of course. Thing is you can offer this service, which is very limited nowadays, but still highly desired. It's little stuff and we want our speakers to look as good as they perform. I hate the look of those old stamp steel baskets, so if I do a custom IB install, I'm going to be thinking about that as an option in my sub brand selection.


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## rcurley55

RNBRAD said:


> It is expensive, but it a service that you sub contract out yet provide the option to your customer. It's only a little initial cost to the company that is then passed on to the customer. So if I call and need a custom sub, anodized red or plated, it can be done for a cost to me of course. Thing is you can offer this service, which is very limited nowadays,* but still highly desired.* It's little stuff and we want our speakers to look as good as they perform. I hate the look of those old stamp steel baskets, so if I do a custom IB install, I'm going to be thinking about that as an option in my sub brand selection.


I think you are grossly over estimating the market :laugh:


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## RNBRAD

rcurley55 said:


> I think you are grossly over estimating the market :laugh:


Can you explain your reasoning?


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## ImageDynamicsTech

I'm all for searching out local guys to do whatever you want to the woofers we bring in... chroming, powder coating, polishing... Whatever you want to do. And since the woofers are field serviceable and easily assemble with screws, Let us know and I'll source the guys to make it happen. Just give me the guideline. And I'll happily let you know the cost to you.

-Frankie


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## ImageDynamicsTech

Just keep in mind that the market isn't going to bear us making customizable woofers. I mean Rockford has custom shop amp chassis, but I'm sure they're not selling many of them. Most people want to barely pay dealer cost for gear right now and independents are suffering because of it, but I applaud you for wanting to us to provide a value added service. I just wish more people seemed to value the custom stuff anymore. Hence the eternal proliferation of the race to zero and lines that higher end companies are releasing just to survive. I'm good friends with Dave Thompson and Rick ZBooth from MMats and they're even making an amp line BELOW the MPA just to move more merch... 
I remember years ago when that wasn't even a thought.... O yea they offer custom colors on amps too! LOL

-Frankie


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## rcurley55

RNBRAD said:


> Can you explain your reasoning?


There's not that much to explain really...just common sense.


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## RNBRAD

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> I'm all for searching out local guys to do whatever you want to the woofers we bring in... chroming, powder coating, polishing... Whatever you want to do. And since the woofers are field serviceable and easily assemble with screws, Let us know and I'll source the guys to make it happen. Just give me the guideline. And I'll happily let you know the cost to you.
> 
> -Frankie


That's what I like right there. If JL can sell subs at a grand a pop, you guys can offer some services that are 50 to 100 dollars more per sub. Most company's have gone away from the old style stamped steel frames for a reason. It's not cause they aren't good, they are as good as anything else, they are just too plain. That's why we see all these exotic looking basket designs these days. It's not cause there isn't a market for it, it's exactly the opposite. We have an entire thread on this site devoted to specifically that. It's totally different from just a couple decades ago where everything was practically the exact same stamp steel basket. Anyone ever wonder why that the manufacturers went beyond the stamp steel baskets? The day a company thinks the customer doesn't care how their sub looks is the day the better prepare to close the doors. I'm not sure how keen ID's customers are to going back to plain stamp steel baskets. I know I'm not. That's why I say, be nice to have the option for a little customization. Today's market isn't just about sound, it has to look good too. That's just common sense though!!!


----------



## rcurley55

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Just keep in mind that the market isn't going to bear us making customizable woofers.


That's what I figured to be the case...


----------



## RNBRAD

Big difference between offering the service or pushing the service. It shouldn't take an educated business owner to explain or understand it. In my business I offer services I make no money on just to bring in customers for other needs I offer. I outsource some services to keep costs down but this increases my revenue as a whole. Simple economics.


----------



## rcurley55

Oh brother...


----------



## schmiddr2

Can we not get off on tangents here. Would be nice to keep this about the new and future products.


I don't see much market share available for a new 3" speaker as there are many many to choose from, a lot because it is a common size for home audio and they work in cars just as well most the time. Also, since a 3way takes some custom work (understating), most people doing them know of many amazing value mids, making it hard to compete without doing high volume like PE or Madisound.

As for shallow midbass and subs, if the SQ and decent output is there, it is going to do well with DIY CA people. For instance, the SI BM Mkiii, more demand than supply.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

So our next order of product improvement is to bring our Q series current. They're great amps no question but again they need to be more marketable but still sound great. So that's another main push we're trying to get the bosses to realize will keep us relevant. I personally think our amps are way to big in a market of quickly shrinking gear. Rich Coe has a few designs that are full range D that have distortion levels at .005%. Absolutely insane. And the footprint is less than half the size of the current Q450.4 and produces far more power. Of course the PTB had him shelf the idea. Until we show more sales that's the problem we're running into, need revenue to push these projects. It's really a privilege to work with that nut!


----------



## Mic10is

Q series amps were sleeper amps that never got credit for being really good amps.
even better when mod'd


----------



## PhoenixGoldFan

So those new series are coming out...
Would like to see and hear them, as the most here fear those things dont meet old ID sound characteristics.
What about it Frankie? I would like to because I really love my IDQ v3, with its small sealed box that goes really down strongly...
Also, would like to know more about this new slim IDQ line, as I plan to change my car for a small car and use this kind of subwoofer. Today my choice should be JL 13TW5, but its very pricey...


----------



## Brian_smith06

Mic10is said:


> Q series amps were sleeper amps that never got credit for being really good amps.
> even better when mod'd


I'll vouch for that


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Definitely trying to push the development... you wouldn't believe the amount of calls I get about our drivers being too deep and when will we come out with a slim driver(s). This product line is already on the slab so the slims will most likely be 2014 bound but I'd love to see them get ready for at the latest 3rd quarter. I know they'll be in high demand if we can get the performance out of them that I want. And especially if they're going to be in the $349 MSRP price point for a 12. As I've already stated, I realize we have a lot of shortcomings but rest assured our current crew is not going to idly sit by and wait for the boss to shut us down. We're trying our best to address as many improvements and new products as possible with our non-existent budget... I look forward to getting out to support shows in SoCal area with my girl/co-worker Maggie and meet some of our products fanbase and hardcore bastards that put me to shame!


----------



## [email protected]

^ Get working on those slims, I will for sure pick a pair up when they are ready.


----------



## thehatedguy

I loved my Q series amps.

But why would ID chrome baskets and stuff now in house? The subs are field reconable. Unbolt the motor and take the moving assembly out yourself and get the basket done how you want it done.

The slim subs sounds like a good idea, especially if you can make it a sub and not an overblown midbass like most slim "subs" on the market are.

I thought that I had an xS cone warp on me too...I swore it was warpped.

Good luck to you guys.


----------



## Rusty

in for shallow mount subs up to 12" that require little air space in a sealed box.


----------



## Horsemanwill

I loved my IDQ's if my friend didn't steal them from me i'd still have them. after that batch of bad baskets i was scared to buy another set. i'd prefer them over stamped still if you got some before the change over and they are going cheap


----------



## bbfoto

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> So our next order of product improvement is to bring our Q series current. They're great amps no question but again they need to be more marketable but still sound great. So that's another main push we're trying to get the bosses to realize will keep us relevant. I personally think our amps are way to big in a market of quickly shrinking gear. Rich Coe has a few designs that are full range D that have distortion levels at .005%. Absolutely insane. And the footprint is less than half the size of the current Q450.4 and produces far more power. Of course the PTB had him shelf the idea. Until we show more sales that's the problem we're running into, need revenue to push these projects. It's really a privilege to work with that nut!


 
The problem is that the PTB aren't going to see more sales unless you are allowed to provide modern, competitive products, with competitvie pricing! It's absolutely great to update/improve/revise your current products, but what will usually gain the most interest is a brand new product (or at least different enough to market it that way), so long as it is a REAL advantage, or at least of equal performance to the competition, but hopefully at a better value.

Regarding Amplifiers, I think that it's an absolute "must" to provide the option of smaller format, full-range Class D designs if you want to be competitive with other companies, especially if Rich has already come up with a great design!

If you look at the majority of amplifier threads here, A LOT of them are comparing the pros/cons of small-footprint, class D or other similarly efficient-topology amps. The 5-Channel compacts are especially compelling! You just need ONE amp for a very decent system. And if you decide to step it up, just add one more for a high-power, separate left/right 4-way + sub system.

IMO, there's a huge market for these, especially for the general consumer that wants great sound in their vehicle, but doesn't want to lose their interior space/cargo usability by having to use larger, multiple amps, or have to pay for custom work to mount larger amps. The option to keep things small and stealth is a very compelling selling point, but at the same time you should have a very attractive/hi-end cosmetic design for those that will want to show them off in custom installs. It doesn't have to be complicated, just a simple, elegant design.

A decent powered 5-channel that fits under a seat or in a storage cubby is a BIG plus, especially for the shop installer. It greatly simplifies fusing/wiring/distribution and overall installation time, and the customer is happy as well. And if the amps are able to provide true hi-end SQ at the same time, it's a double win for us enthusiasts. Just take a look at how many top competitors are now using the JL HD amps.

For feedback, I would really ask your dealers to keep track and inform you of what products are selling in their shops and regions. What products fly out the door most on a daily basis? What features would help them sell more of your product rather than a competitors?

Because of their premium pricing, I believe JL Audio was smart to produce both the HD and XD lines to appeal to a wider range of customers. But if you can produce a single line that fits between those price points, I think you will do extremely well, but they must have the performance, design, and reliability nailed-down to do so.

IMO, the stackable design is genius as well. This has many times provided me with a VERY simple solution to mounting multiple amps that would otherwise require custom fabrication and/or additional space. No, it doesn't work in all circumstances, but by incorporating the mounting points that the amp needs to have anyway, it's a no-brainer and provides that many more options.

After having used the JL HD and Alpine PDX amps, it is VERY difficult for me to even consider using anything else, due to the combined advantages of adequate power output, small footprint, and stackable design. I also really like the tiny 2x125w Pioneer PRS-D800 amps. It's an easy addition if you want to go from say a 2-way front stage to an active 3-way front setup.

What I would think would be genius is to create the amps without built-in crossovers in order to minimize size for those that have active XO's in their head unit or a stand-alone processor. But also offer a X/O Module separately that snaps into the side or end of the amplifier via a simple, removable cover panel. The XO module and amp PCBs would have built-in multi-pin connectors and should cost an additional $45-$95. As long as the modules add just an inch or so to the length or width of the amp, this would be awesome! OPTIONS!

----

3"-4" Midrange. Yes, there are already a ton of very good options on the market, but I think there is always room for another if it can be brought to market for a reasonable price/performance point with features desirable for in-car use, i.e. mounting and UV/heat resistance.

Here are the main points that IMO would make a standout driver for Car Audio use:

1. Narrow Mounting Flange/Minimize overall diameter.
2. Neo magnet/small diameter motor structure.
3. Mounting Depth: As little as possible while achieving adequate xmax for #4.
4. Usable down to 200Hz @ 24dB/octave and up to 4.5-5kHz with smooth FR.
5. Preferably low distortion/low Le with use of shorting ring(s)
6. Not more than .5 Liter required for sealed enclosures.
7. Heat, moisture and UV-resistant build materials.

IMO, at ~$80/pair, the Fountek FR88EX and/or FR89EX come closest to meeting these requirements, and have extremely good performance at a very affordable price point, so they would be hard to beat.










I wish the mounting flange/overall diameter was slightly less, or the same overall diameter with a slightly larger cone/Sd. And I'd like to see a variation or two with different cone materials. There are a few botique companies that already offer variations of this driver, but IMO the price penalty is much too great for negligable performance gains, if any.

Ideally, you would offer this midrange separately for no more than $200 per Pair (MSRP), and also make them available in a 3-way component set, with either 6.5" or 8" midbass drivers.

---------

Web Site + Extensive Product Information + Tutorials + Support Forums = Very Important. Let's face it, the Internet IS how we communicate! We are spoiled with having an incredible amount of easily accessable information at our fingertips. If your Web presence is anything less than stellar, the consumer moves on to another product or company. As an example, I will often go the Crutchfield web site for product information rather than the manufacture's own site! Another prime example of a stellar car audio mfg's Web site is JL Audio.

Check out www.squarespace.com for a top-notch source of good web design. You can make your site as simple or as complex as needed with VERY little effort.


Anyway, FWIW, those are my thoughts.

I'm looking forward to the new 15" and other updates!

Please don't be a stranger, Frankie! Thank you!


----------



## PPI_GUY

Slim subs are definately trending. All the more popular if you can build a true SQ-based slim. There are only a small number of truly good sounding slims available right now. If you can break new ground in either sensitivity or freq. response (preferably all of the above) and make it work in a small box, you'll have a hit on your hands. 

Regarding amps. You need to focus on compact class D. That's where all the movement is now. A proprietary board design would be nice. It would set ID apart from all the other companies that are stuffing the same boards into slightly varied heatsinks. 
Take some tips from those who have used ID amps and mod'ed them. I like the idea of a series of small, class D amps WITHOUT a crossover section. Utilize a clean signal path, ultra low THD, strong dampening and signal to noise numbers. 
I really like what JBL is doing with their onboard clipping indicators so, you might want to include that feature. The nicer tiffany style RCA's seem to convey the that I am buying a better built product so, stick with those too. 
Finally, stay with the basic, no-nonsense look. The Q series is very understated and serious looking. Amps should primarily be super-functional but, also do need to be pleasing to the eye. Don't add any bling to my amp please!


----------



## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> I loved my Q series amps.
> 
> But why would ID chrome baskets and stuff now in house? The subs are field reconable. Unbolt the motor and take the moving assembly out yourself and get the basket done how you want it done.
> 
> The slim subs sounds like a good idea, especially if you can make it a sub and not an overblown midbass like most slim "subs" on the market are.
> 
> I thought that I had an xS cone warp on me too...I swore it was warpped.
> 
> Good luck to you guys.


Regarding the Slim IDQ, I would like to suggest you work on 3 things in order to be competitive with other brands: 
#1- get the 12" sub to work in 0.6cuft MAX - the 13TW5 from JL is bigger in diameter and works in 0.8cuft so. Obviously, the 10" should require less than 0.5cuft *YET* --> 
#2- dig down with authority and do real sub duty - as stated above, not an oversized midbass  Would also like to see some copper in the motor in order to lower distortion and help it play higher freq... 
#3- Don't know how feasible but mouting depth can really be a big seller. Keep #1 and #2 while making the 12" *LESS* than 3.5" will surely get you some customers. Why less than 3.5"? Coz the Alpine SWR-T and the Stereo Integrity BM have 3.5" mounting depth. Making it shallower will let customers swap their subwoofer in whichever stealthbox they have :thumbsup:

Price? I don't care and I'm sure most won't "care that much" if the product is good. The MAX reputation speaks for itself - it wasn't super expensive but it wasn't cheap either... yet people love them and use them for their system: in a car and @ home

All the best for future projects 

Kelvin


----------



## subwoofery

bbfoto said:


> The problem is that the PTB aren't going to see more sales unless you are allowed to provide modern, competitive products, with competitvie pricing! It's absolutely great to update/improve/revise your current products, but what will usually gain the most interest is a brand new product (or at least different enough to market it that way), so long as it is a REAL advantage, or at least of equal performance to the competition, but hopefully at a better value.
> 
> Regarding Amplifiers, I think that it's an absolute "must" to provide the option of smaller format, full-range Class D designs if you want to be competitive with other companies, especially if Rich has already come up with a great design!
> 
> If you look at the majority of amplifier threads here, A LOT of them are comparing the pros/cons of small-footprint, class D or other similarly efficient-topology amps. The 5-Channel compacts are especially compelling! You just need ONE amp for a very decent system. And if you decide to step it up, just add one more for a high-power, separate left/right 4-way + sub system.
> 
> IMO, there's a huge market for these, especially for the general consumer that wants great sound in their vehicle, but doesn't want to lose their interior space/cargo usability by having to use larger, multiple amps, or have to pay for custom work to mount larger amps. The option to keep things small and stealth is a very compelling selling point, but at the same time you should have a very attractive/hi-end cosmetic design for those that will want to show them off in custom installs. It doesn't have to be complicated, just a simple, elegant design.
> 
> A decent powered 5-channel that fits under a seat or in a storage cubby is a BIG plus, especially for the shop installer. It greatly simplifies fusing/wiring/distribution and overall installation time, and the customer is happy as well. And if the amps are able to provide true hi-end SQ at the same time, it's a double win for us enthusiasts. Just take a look at how many top competitors are now using the JL HD amps.
> 
> For feedback, I would really ask your dealers to keep track and inform you of what products are selling in their shops and regions. What products fly out the door most on a daily basis? What features would help them sell more of your product rather than a competitors?
> 
> Because of their premium pricing, I believe JL Audio was smart to produce both the HD and XD lines to appeal to a wider range of customers. But if you can produce a single line that fits between those price points, I think you will do extremely well, but they must have the performance, design, and reliability nailed-down to do so.
> 
> IMO, the stackable design is genius as well. This has many times provided me with a VERY simple solution to mounting multiple amps that would otherwise require custom fabrication and/or additional space. No, it doesn't work in all circumstances, but by incorporating the mounting points that the amp needs to have anyway, it's a no-brainer and provides that many more options.
> 
> After having used the JL HD and Alpine PDX amps, it is VERY difficult for me to even consider using anything else, due to the combined advantages of adequate power output, small footprint, and stackable design. I also really like the tiny 2x125w Pioneer PRS-D800 amps. It's an easy addition if you want to go from say a 2-way front stage to an active 3-way front setup.
> 
> What I would think would be genius is to create the amps without built-in crossovers in order to minimize size for those that have active XO's in their head unit or a stand-alone processor. But also offer a X/O Module separately that snaps into the side or end of the amplifier via a simple, removable cover panel. The XO module and amp PCBs would have built-in multi-pin connectors and should cost an additional $45-$95. As long as the modules add just an inch or so to the length or width of the amp, this would be awesome! OPTIONS!
> 
> ----
> 
> 3"-4" Midrange. Yes, there are already a ton of very good options on the market, but I think there is always room for another if it can be brought to market for a reasonable price/performance point with features desirable for in-car use, i.e. mounting and UV/heat resistance.
> 
> Here are the main points that IMO would make a standout driver for Car Audio use:
> 
> 1. Narrow Mounting Flange/Minimize overall diameter.
> 2. Neo magnet/small diameter motor structure.
> 3. Mounting Depth: As little as possible while achieving adequate xmax for #4.
> 4. Usable down to 200Hz @ 24dB/octave and up to 4.5-5kHz with smooth FR.
> 5. Preferably low distortion/low Le with use of shorting ring(s)
> 6. Not more than .5 Liter required for sealed enclosures.
> 7. Heat, moisture and UV-resistant build materials.
> 
> IMO, at ~$80/pair, the Fountek FR88EX and/or FR89EX come closest to meeting these requirements, and have extremely good performance at a very affordable price point, so they would be hard to beat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish the mounting flange/overall diameter was slightly less, or the same overall diameter with a slightly larger cone/Sd. And I'd like to see a variation or two with different cone materials. There are a few botique companies that already offer variations of this driver, but IMO the price penalty is much too great for negligable performance gains, if any.
> 
> Ideally, you would offer this midrange separately for no more than $200 per Pair (MSRP), and also make them available in a 3-way component set, with either 6.5" or 8" midbass drivers.
> 
> ---------
> 
> Web Site + Extensive Product Information + Tutorials + Support Forums = Very Important. Let's face it, the Internet IS how we communicate! We are spoiled with having an incredible amount of easily accessable information at our fingertips. If your Web presence is anything less than stellar, the consumer moves on to another product or company. As an example, I will often go the Crutchfield web site for product information rather than the manufacture's own site! Another prime example of a stellar car audio mfg's Web site is JL Audio.
> 
> Check out www.squarespace.com for a top-notch source of good web design. You can make your site as simple or as complex as needed with VERY little effort.
> 
> 
> Anyway, FWIW, those are my thoughts.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the new 15" and other updates!
> 
> Please don't be a stranger, Frankie! Thank you!


Agreed with most of it. 

Just make sure to have a 5 channel amp that has @ least the same power output as the big leaders: 100 RMS (front) & 500 RMS (sub) 
If you can make it have more power, why not  

For the DIY community, the sub channel has to play up to 1kHz  

Kelvin


----------



## thehatedguy

You just aren't going to have high sensitivity, low end extension, AND a small enclosure.

Hoffman's Iron Law is going on here.


----------



## 04silverz

If a five channel does come down the pipeline, something along the lines of power equal to the memphis big belle would be nice. Seems most 5 channels are lacking a bit in power especially on the mono channel. 

Also, post vids of that max 15!!!


----------



## evangojason

Going tweeterless is gaining popularity and off the top of my head can't think of one popular car audio 3" wideband/fullrange driver. I know there are some out there but most don't compare to the Founteks and tangbands. And as for a 5 channel class d amp, why not make it staggered?


----------



## Sonus

Why not make that 5ch a 6ch with staggered output?
4x100 and 2x200 would be nice to power both 3-way and top of a 4 way system while adding a mono or a big stereo amp for sub duty.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Wow guys thanks so much for all the input.... let me firstly say that concerning the amps. Rich Coe has 4 models literally ready for metal. If they ever see the light of day, you can be rest assured that they will have absolutely bullet proof construction,very small footprint, and stellar specs. (Rich wouldn't have it any other way... if you don't know who I'm talking about yet, do a search on Rich Coe.. he pretty much birthed car audio...) He has a mono amp that's smaller than the original 300 mono BRD rockford that does over 800 RMS. I think he has a 2 ch, 4 ch, tiny mono and larger mono about 2kw thats actually about 1/2 the area of the Q600.1. 
I'm going to beat on the MAX 15 proto today I'll try to get some video for you guys.... If I get it up you'll have to see my ugly mug so don't say I didn't warn you. 


On a final note... I'm not supposed to say this (especially since Riccardo is busy building v.3 stuff still...) We have a stock of IDQ 12 v.2 d4 softparts and motor/frames new. He tells me that we could build roughly 20-30 NEW drivers... If so I'm considering only offering them to you guys. Granted it would be at a lower price since there aren't ways to warranty them (But we will test them thoroughly of course). Any interest? Again only 12" v.2 D4 would be available... I'm probably thinking of grabbing 6 for myself.... LOL.

Lemme know guys... I wonder if I can get fired for this? TTYL gotta make a MAX cry!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Yea hated, I don't understand why RoHacel was chosen... Its a FOAM core fer crissakes... Last time I checked foam is light but not very structurally stable when its heated, cooled, humid, etc... granted B&W uses the same stuff for their drivers BUT I only think they just recently signed a deal with Maserati for car drivers.... I'll bet they'r enot going to use RoHacel in them... LOL just chiming in on that... O yea we're trying to get a more informative manual done and updatet he CXS and XS crossovers. I think if someone is getting a comp set that retails for $7-800 MSRP, they deserve a certain breadth of info. Hell I'd like to include all the LEAP graphs but god forbid it would cost more money in ink and paper! (No kidding) I hate corporate ****.


----------



## subwoofery

evangojason said:


> Going tweeterless is gaining popularity and off the top of my head can't think of one popular car audio 3" wideband/fullrange driver. I know there are some out there but most don't compare to the Founteks and tangbands. And as for a 5 channel class d amp, why not make it staggered?


It's only popular on this forum  Maybe due to the lack of car audio wideband driver :shrug: 
To be honest, for the uneducated customer, 99% of the time they won't care for a wideband driver and WILL ask for a tweeter in their system... 

Kelvin


----------



## RNBRAD

True, company's trying to make it under financial difficulties can't afford to have product failures. Have to be very very focused on what "most" people desire. After cash flow grows then can cater to some of the "niche" groups desires such as many of us.


----------



## PPI_GUY

thehatedguy said:


> You just aren't going to have high sensitivity, low end extension, AND a small enclosure.
> 
> Hoffman's Iron Law is going on here.


I was speaking in relative terms...as in relative to what is available now. 
When it comes right down to it, I think more people would be willing to sacrifice sensitivity in return for low end extension and a small enclosure. With the abundance of power available and in a small footprint, sensitivity seems the easiest hurdle to get around for users.

I might be ineterested in a couple of those 12v2d4's if the price is really good!


----------



## thehatedguy

But how much lower would you want to go? Slim subs right now are in about the 80-82 dB range...the larger the more efficient. I just wouldn't care for a 70 dB sensitive sub...but that's just me.

Focal had a ton of problems with their foam cored W and kevlar cone warping too. I'm sure there was a reason as to when Eric choose those that cone material.

You shouldn't have a hard time selling the v2 IDQs. To me they were the best sounding of all of the subs (minus the IDWs) that ID had/has made.


----------



## evangojason

subwoofery said:


> It's only popular on this forum  Maybe due to the lack of car audio wideband driver :shrug:
> To be honest, for the uneducated customer, 99% of the time they won't care for a wideband driver and WILL ask for a tweeter in their system...
> 
> Kelvin


Very true, but many of the "popular trends" start here. A lot of uneducated customer also want whats "new". There is plenty of cars with 3" opening in the dash and more cars that are coming stock with a 3way front stage.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Lemme see to my knowledge.... Hmmm car audio widebanders/fullranges in the 3" range... 
I believe Hybrid has one and Scotts G35 goes tweeterless, Ummmm. Pioneer Stage IV and they have a demo car that goes sans tweet... Errrrr and my personal guilty pleasure of a company Digital Designs has one that I can't believe no one has tried... Especially since it has cool "break away" mounting tabs for all us fab guys who can actually make stuff happen.... LOL specs on it say 103-22k and its German made.... gotta love DD. Funny I work for ID and give love to other companies.... I thought that was taboo. Oh yea it's because I think for myself. LOL. Actually been using and installing DD since the mid 90s... Oh yea I almost forgot... Ask Rick Booth my buddy from Mmats about their super high end widebander and tweet... Saw em at CES 2012 they may have something lying around! That's all I got of the top of my head, oh wait. The kit from SStream and PPI has a 2.5" cone mid that is Neo powered and may have a pretty wide frequency response.... I heard from my friend Kevin who USED to work there til recently that guys were winning with those at SBN last year. 

-Frankie


----------



## PPI_GUY

thehatedguy said:


> But how much lower would you want to go? Slim subs right now are in about the 80-82 dB range...the larger the more efficient. I just wouldn't care for a 70 dB sensitive sub...but that's just me.
> .


I would think a 12" slim, with deep extension and a 84-85 dB sensitivity in a small-ish (0.80 net enclosure) would be an achievable goal. Above all it needs to _sound_ like the rest of the IDQ series.


----------



## Horsemanwill

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Wow guys thanks so much for all the input.... let me firstly say that concerning the amps. Rich Coe has 4 models literally ready for metal. If they ever see the light of day, you can be rest assured that they will have absolutely bullet proof construction,very small footprint, and stellar specs. (Rich wouldn't have it any other way... if you don't know who I'm talking about yet, do a search on Rich Coe.. he pretty much birthed car audio...) He has a mono amp that's smaller than the original 300 mono BRD rockford that does over 800 RMS. I think he has a 2 ch, 4 ch, tiny mono and larger mono about 2kw thats actually about 1/2 the area of the Q600.1.
> I'm going to beat on the MAX 15 proto today I'll try to get some video for you guys.... If I get it up you'll have to see my ugly mug so don't say I didn't warn you.
> 
> 
> On a final note... I'm not supposed to say this (especially since Riccardo is busy building v.3 stuff still...) *We have a stock of IDQ 12 v.2 d4 softparts and motor/frames new. He tells me that we could build roughly 20-30 NEW drivers... If so I'm considering only offering them to you guys. Granted it would be at a lower price since there aren't ways to warranty them (But we will test them thoroughly of course). Any interest?* Again only 12" v.2 D4 would be available... I'm probably thinking of grabbing 6 for myself.... LOL.
> 
> Lemme know guys... I wonder if I can get fired for this? TTYL gotta make a MAX cry!


I'd be interested in something like this also depending on price sign me up for 4


----------



## RNBRAD

I'll take one, if the price is good also.


----------



## minbari

ya, price would be a great motivator for me too. since they are old rev and unwarrantable, I cant see paying much more than $100 for em.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

I think Riccardo had said that Eric formerly sold them as new for $100 each plus shipping. I'm going to talk to moderator people and find out how to get a merchant forum set up....
Now Riccardo also says we may have 50 .... yay! LOL


----------



## thomasluke

minbari said:


> ya, price would be a great motivator for me too. since they are old rev and unwarrantable, I cant see paying much more than $100 for em.


Same here. Count me in if the price is around $100 maybe $120.


----------



## tophatjimmy

I'd be in for 3, pending price confirmation.


----------



## rexroadj

WOW! That would be awesome! Its hard to knock the older idq! Nothing against the new! 

Yes, I agree with you ID.....Not sure how many widebanders are really available on the car audio market.....very few I'd waste my $ on thats for sure! Including raw drivers. LOVE the concept. To me there is still a LOT to be desired from them, especially if you still have to add some variation of a "tweeter". Just my opinion though. I would like to see a midrange 3-4" cone or dome thats on par with the XS line? ****....you'd have one hell of a midrange, thats for sure! 
I would also kill to see an IDMAX 8. Been praying for that for years. The 8" market might sustain such a driver. Of course with subs like the type R 8 and id8 gto8 etc.....at minimal costs you can do multiples with good results and easy $$$. Anyone that has truly used a W7 8" to its potential? Well, you dont need multiples  Its a driver that has done VERY well. Therefore I think the competition of a IdMax 8 would sustain. Also, if you have so many drivers to unload......from a business perspective, wouldnt it be FAR more advantageous to invest in marketing and sales promotions to unload and create some income? Then you would have reason to focus and spend $ on new ideas? Seams like planning new and wasting company time and funds on that is the equivalent of putting the **** before the shovel? Of course I have no clue what is being done in house with that topic. I do know as a consumer I have seen nothing. Of course in the New England area there has never been an ID presence. Sad! If you guys are looking for a regional rep...... Contact me. You may be very surprised  

I'm excited to see what gets done from here on out as I have been a LONG time ID fan. Sad to see some of the changes with personnel, no doubt. Some of them helped me with things above and beyond years ago and I will never forget the graciousness of them. That being said business is business and if quality products are made and qc as well as cs is on par........Yay for the audio community. Thank you for your time and participation on this site. We are fortunate to have a few on here. Its what separates this from the others IMO. 
Thank YOU.......Welcome to Diyma, and please continue to be honest and participate!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Wow thanks Rex. Very nice to hear... I just tested the proto MAX 15 with the stiffer surround... It's not broken in of course but sitting in 2.25 gross and approx 2 cu net, was pretty impressive... at approx 2" of excursion p-p very little complaining in the form of noises... we just got the softer parts today, Riccardo will assemble them tmrw. And I'll keep you guys updated. The shallow franken-ten as I like to call it, worked nice in .6 but no output worth a damn over 40hz. Likely reason? Supple suspension, heavy cone and too weak of a magnet... but hey for something put together from spare parts, not a bad first try... LOL. I know theres a MAX 8 Proto sitting in the back that Dan built before going to Tx. I don't see why if we made a couple sales and I could help to offload the Q v2s why it couldn't help finance a small MAX project.... lol. I'll keep you guys in the loop about the v2 thing once I set up with the Mods and get a bulk vendor forum for a couple weeks... 

- Frankie


----------



## SoundJunkie

I am down for a pair of V2's if and when that happens

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rexroadj

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Wow thanks Rex. Very nice to hear... I just tested the proto MAX 15 with the stiffer surround... It's not broken in of course but sitting in 2.25 gross and approx 2 cu net, was pretty impressive... at approx 2" of excursion p-p very little complaining in the form of noises... we just got the softer parts today, Riccardo will assemble them tmrw. And I'll keep you guys updated. The shallow franken-ten as I like to call it, worked nice in .6 but no output worth a damn over 40hz. Likely reason? Supple suspension, heavy cone and too weak of a magnet... but hey for something put together from spare parts, not a bad first try... LOL. I know theres a MAX 8 Proto sitting in the back that Dan built before going to Tx. I don't see why if we made a couple sales and I could help to offload the Q v2s why it couldn't help finance a small MAX project.... lol. I'll keep you guys in the loop about the v2 thing once I set up with the Mods and get a bulk vendor forum for a couple weeks...
> 
> - Frankie


I LOVE the MAX 15 concept as well......May have a GTI competitor IB! I cant justify the 15" in my vehicle (could fit it BUT!. If your interested in a "impartial" forum review....... with any of them I'm all ears  I would really be interested in the 8". Seriously, take a look on here for all the 8" threads on here..(I realize this thread of freaks accounts for less then 1% of the market but still!).....and now a days, people want to save space in there mini's and "not so" smart cars, scion's etc....... It makes sense! Especially if you can have the output of something like the 8w7....be even better if you could do so in a slightly smaller setup? I would LOVE to play with one! You have no idea 
I beat the **** out of a couple of R'8s when they came out. Really liked/enjoyed them. 
I also agree that if you could do a 3-4" xs midrange and a legit 8" (even solid 7 maybe better?) on the slimmer side it would be popular on here. Again, tiny piece of the pie I know. Maybe something that could retro fit in stock locations of popular vehicles (bmw,rover, etc......) I'd also like to see you guys build a tweeter like the Focal TN52.....titanium dome. I think that sound fits the drivers better? Cleanliness if you will? 

Either way, best of luck to the company with the new ventures. I hope you guys continue to do the name justice.....Based on the terrible market, its a tough slope. Again, thanks for all the insight and open "forum" about it all!

Rex.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

OK thanks for the insight.... As for the 8" I know that my bud Grizz was working on the Tarantula Nano 8 but it never made it... But Massive has the Hippo 8 not to mention Sundown has that badass SE 8. I also think Dave and Rick at Mmats had plans to possibly make a 3.0 or ProCast 8 but who knows. It's all about tooling cost for the cone, basket, pretty much everything. And that makes PTB cringe. So we'll take it one step at a time. 

- Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Also we're a tiny company compared to JL, Alpine, etc etc etc... we gotta fight back to garner a piece of the pie back for us THEN I'll be sure to push these other projects to ful
fill some request of the truly hardcore.


----------



## rexroadj

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK thanks for the insight.... As for the 8" I know that my bud Grizz was working on the Tarantula Nano 8 but it never made it... But Massive has the Hippo 8 not to mention Sundown has that badass SE 8. I also think Dave and Rick at Mmats had plans to possibly make a 3.0 or ProCast 8 but who knows. It's all about tooling cost for the cone, basket, pretty much everything. And that makes PTB cringe. So we'll take it one step at a time.
> 
> - Frankie


Grizz is GREAT people!

You and everyone can keep the "badass" sundown 8 
If thats what you guys would turn out....you can keep it!
Sorry, just calling it as I see it!

3.0 8" would be VERY intriguing! 

I hear you about the company portfolio standings compared to JL and Alpine. I understand completely! I'm just saying. The max line is your creme de'le creme so why not compete in all levels if and when you can. Competition is what makes companies thrive. Why do you think you see a BK and McDonalds across from each other in most intersections across the country? Entry level economics 
Plus I REALLY want one  LOL! Always have! 
Yeah, I'll kick and scream till I see one! :laugh:


----------



## Horsemanwill

if that's 100 shipped i'll take the 4 as said


----------



## PowerbassTech

No worries guys I'm keeping tabs so once you guys specify how many you want and we set up the temp vendor section. Those who asked first and for what quantity will get them before the rest... First post first get. As for my comment on the Sundown 8 I never played with it... sorry I mistyped. If it sucks then OKEY DOKEY. I'd rather give DD cred fot the 1508 which I personally sold many of when I had my shops and they absolutely RULED as far as I heard. I hear they have the 2508 but I saw a youtube vid and the test said the 1508 was actually better for the money... and better made but hey that was one vid. Oh yea it would be $100 ea plus shipping I think is where we'll probably be.

- Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

O yea this is me I just forgot to log out... Not like this is some big secret anymore. Doing double duty. It's OK to hate me lol! I'm still trying to look out for each companies best interest.

-Frankie


----------



## rexroadj

No ****! LOL!

I'm clueless I guess?

The 1508 is a BAD boy!!!! Big fan when done right! VERY big fan! 
not knocking the Sundown for those that like it.....I am less then impressed outside of its cosmetic prowess? Just me though. I know many like it....for those? I say, knock yourself out and enjoy! All about what tickles the grundle


----------



## Horsemanwill

wat u figure shipping to be to 66441
per sub


----------



## PowerbassTech

I'll give you a heads up tmrw morning bc Riccardo and them split already... I'll keep ya posted. I figure maybe 15? They're not massive (No pun Intended...LOL)

-Frankie


----------



## adrenalinejunkie

I'll take one IDQv2. Maybe two actually... Hmmm. I'll see once we have an exact price.


----------



## ZAKOH

schmiddr2 said:


> Can we not get off on tangents here. Would be nice to keep this about the new and future products.
> 
> 
> I don't see much market share available for a new 3" speaker as there are many many to choose from, a lot because it is a common size for home audio and they work in cars just as well most the time. Also, since a 3way takes some custom work (understating), most people doing them know of many amazing value mids, making it hard to compete without doing high volume like PE or Madisound.


I think you can get this impression after spending some time on DIY forum. I am seeing more people asking for recommendations for a good 3-way set, even with passives on other audio forums. A lot of newer cars come with three way speakers, and eventually will be upgraded with aftermarket parts. Still, the frequency with which HAT L3/L4 derivatives are traded on classifieds here suggests that there is interest in a quality small mid-range, even if it costs more than $100 for a set.

A small mid does seem like a less obvious way to increase sales quick for ID. I'd say release a new generation of XS 2-way speakers, IDQ, and IDMAX, and people will likely line up to buy them IMHO.. A high quality compact Class D amplifier aimed at SQ installs and not a clone of an existing product could also become popular. Just look at the success of JL's HD and Alpine's PDX amplifiers.


----------



## PPI_GUY

Still good for a couple myself. Wish they were 10's but, oh well!
Always happy to help American manufacturers!


----------



## schmiddr2

I am going solely off of what I see people doing here. I do not read enough on other sites that are doing diy installs to make an informed opinion. And to clarify, I just think that to make a 3" mid, that's not also offered as part of a 3way set, is kind of "the hard path to take" seeing as how there are already dozens of favorites here on diyma that cover most every price range. Not that it can't be done, but it's not going to be easy to match price, performance, and reputation of some of the raw drivers already in use around here. But if there is a growing market for drop in replacement 3" mids for certain cars, then maybe that's the niche to go after.


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

I want in for 4 of the 12s


----------



## Sonus

A 3-way component set that would drop into new BMWs with underseat woofers would be killer. It would have a 1" tweeter, 4" shallow mount (45mm max) midrange and 8" slim woofers. Make the drivers baskets standard, but supply adapters in the set for dropping into standard BMW mounting.

I'd definitvely buy a set


----------



## ZAKOH

rcurley55 said:


> It's hard to blame him for the mistake - the website is a mess. I fail to understand why it is so hard for car audio companies to put out a decent website. It's so simple, yet the smaller companies continue to have issues with it (think Zapco, Arc Audio, etc.).
> 
> Web presence is so important that it makes it hard to take you guys seriously when you have site riddled with errors.



Indeed. ID's web site is very amateurish. It looks like something that could be passable around year 1997. For comparison Arc Audio looks much better. Most importantly, the information content is lacking. How about posting a copy of all manuals, not just the current products but the old ones too, T/S parameters, etc?


----------



## ZAKOH

So what exactly makes IDQ V2 a good subwoofer? In what way is it better or worse than v3? I remember xtremerevolution was a bit advocate of those. I am happy with my infinity kappa, but curious about this one. I am a fan of a subwoofer that digs a bit lower, and I heard IDQv2 did not extend as low as some others.


----------



## mos805

First I find out I can recone my existing IDQv2 and now I find out you guys might be making more!? I might be interested in purchasing another IDQ12v2 off you guys and finally get an IB setup in my car..


----------



## RNBRAD

ZAKOH said:


> So what exactly makes IDQ V2 a good subwoofer? In what way is it better or worse than v3? I remember xtremerevolution was a bit advocate of those. I am happy with my infinity kappa, but curious about this one. I am a fan of a subwoofer that digs a bit lower, and I heard IDQv2 did not extend as low as some others.


In my subjective experience, it was a simple no frills sub that just did everything well. It was efficient and a sub that could perform in a variety of installs and do it as good or better than many subs that cost double or triple the price, kinda like the old kicker comps. The V3 tried to expound on the virtues of the 2 while adding greater output capabilities. Did they achieve the 2's performance is the question? I think they came real close if not nailed it, although power handling could still be better, but the V3's can put out some bass, dig really deep and sound phenominal doing it. Also being able to recone a sub in about 5 mins for a fraction of the price, pure brilliance!!! I'm a little skeptical of the frame material but it has never cause me any problems. I'd really rather have a cast aluminum frame if I was choosing.


----------



## legend94

I will need at least 2 of the IDQ12's


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

As for the website ZAK... we're doing our best with the limits we have... we actually paid out for it to be done and it came back a mess. You get what you pay for... Javier and Maggie are trying to make it better day by day... even though they weren't paid to do so and they themselves aren't web designers. As for the manuals, I'm appalled at their skimpiness especially for the component sets. I mean an $800 retail set and 1 piece of paper folded in half! Come on! No response graphs, no curves for what each jumper setting does! The fact that it's NOT a two way filter and only a filter for the TWEETER! I think that burns me up the most. Rich Coe helped map it out and confirms it... the mid rolls off naturally... all the crossover components adjust the tweeter...
So that is another thing I'm trying to push for. Oh yeah and THANKS A LOT guys for all the great response on the very limited resurrection of the v2 IDQ 12 d4. I am specific that only your crew will have dibs on them... I hope the mods here can give me a PM and let me know if the 2 wk package for the bulk sale vendor single item will be sufficient or not.... Mods? Chime in please.... I'd really like to get you guys these woofers ASAP... Thanks a ton!

- Frankie

PS if anyone has Grizz's email I'd love to get it so I can send him and Angela some additional bald headed bro love!


----------



## thehatedguy

I passed the info along to someone who would know more about it than I would.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Thanks so much hated one.... much love for the Hated One!

-Frankie


----------



## RNBRAD

I think this has been a great thread, it's nice to have ID representation here. To me that means you (they) want to hear what the customer has to say. Wasn't too long ago people thought you all were out of business. Anyway as a consumer, it's highly appreciated and I wish for your continued and also some new success. It's a tough market and I know a key player may have left ID, but when Roger Waters left Pink Floyd, the others didn't roll over and quit. You all still have a tremendous following, now go make some music!!:rockon::rockon:


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Well gee that makes me feel all mushy and special...LOL.
I am a trial by fire tech here. I have plenty of application exp. and former shop owning, retail, distribution,... etc etc etc. But I firmly believe that regardless of the BS you can throw at a wall... the performance of our products and the enthusiasm of our end users and dealers, and reps MAKES a company. Not fancy ads that suck assets in a world where it is overrun with saturated visual feces. I only know mobile audio... have since I was 16... almost 24 yrs later I'm gonna promise you guys that I am going to fight harder against the adversaries of forward progress... yes those who have grown jaded and tired of this market and lost what we really are about... WE LOVE THIS ****! I say to those who are miserable about being here.... go sell mattresses or toasters or real estate instead if you don't love this anymore! 

WHEW! (Stepping down off my soapbox) Nice to be here!

-Frankie

PS - I have to limit the IDQv.2 thing to 25 requested so the first requests that totals 25 will get em. If I have any left over after that, I'll let you guys know.


----------



## legend94

RNBRAD said:


> In my subjective experience, it was a simple no frills sub that just did everything well. It was efficient and a sub that could perform in a variety of installs and do it as good or better than many subs that cost double or triple the price...... I'm a little skeptical of the frame material but it has never cause me any problems. I'd really rather have a cast aluminum frame if I was choosing.


I agree with what you have said and I think that anyone that can afford one of these should get a few. At the very least you can pass these on to your friends. 

Whats great about the idq v2? one of the best subs i have ever used under 300 dollars and i would be happy to have one in my car.


----------



## RNBRAD

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Well gee that makes me feel all mushy and special...LOL.
> I am a trial by fire tech here. I have plenty of application exp. and former shop owning, retail, distribution,... etc etc etc. But I firmly believe that regardless of the BS you can throw at a wall... the performance of our products and the enthusiasm of our end users and dealers, and reps MAKES a company. Not fancy ads that suck assets in a world where it is overrun with saturated visual feces. I only know mobile audio... have since I was 16... almost 24 yrs later I'm gonna promise you guys that I am going to fight harder against the adversaries of forward progress... yes those who have grown jaded and tired of this market and lost what we really are about... WE LOVE THIS ****! I say to those who are miserable about being here.... go sell mattresses or toasters or real estate instead if you don't love this anymore!
> 
> WHEW! (Stepping down off my soapbox) Nice to be here!
> 
> -Frankie
> 
> PS - I have to limit the IDQv.2 thing to 25 requested so the first requests that totals 25 will get em. If I have any left over after that, I'll let you guys know.


Very good points. The best advertising is and always will be word of mouth. 

I'm looking forward to having a v2 again, although I'll put it back for a rainy day but it's great to have a true gem of a sub, especially BNIB. How often does that happen?


----------



## schmiddr2

Not sure if my PM request a few days ago was formal, but I'm in for one.


----------



## LovesMusic

Frankie,

If a couple orders fall through please sign me up for 2 of the 12idqv2's, pleasee. fingers crossed lol no offense guys...


I am on board with the 8"MAX! That sounds perfect, something I am looking for/play with in cabin.

Something along the lines and between a 8w7 and an ultimo 8... handles more power then the w7 and plays in a box relatively closer to the ultimo... .5-.6 ft^3 could be easily finagled into the cabin..
Price......make it less than the morel.

IDs got no love for us east coast guys? can we get some product in shops over here..?

Your website always had me weary...like mentioned earlier.
However, Youve made quite the impression with your on-going presence. Good Stuff ID!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

OK guys! As of my last count, I believe that's 25 requested. So as of right now... until we formally build em and I can get a final count, I'll honor the previous requests for the 25 up to this point. Now I'm going to hopefully get things rolling next week... I just have to finish testing the MAX 15 once its assembled and once that's done and some orders filled, Riccardo and myself will build the 25. With any luck I can have a definite number by next week sometime. I gotta get to WORK! LOL Thanks guys. 

- Frankie


----------



## PPI_GUY

I've used OZ, JBL, Kicker Solobarics (first series), Crossfire, Infinity and JL Audio. But, recently picked up a couple of IDQ 10v1d4 from a user here. These were the originals mind you but, in amazing condition. Well, to say I was impressed would be an understatement! My favorite sub of alltime were the Oz "superman" series and you all know how amazing they were. These ID 10's have impressed me as much as those Oz subs did back in the 90's. Not saying the ID's are better but, it's very, very close. I can only imagine the followup versions are even better!
In fact, I can honestly say I will be using some version of IDQ subs from here on out. They just sound "right" to me.

Frankie, will the limited run of version 2 12's have blade-type terminals or "push locks'?


----------



## RNBRAD

Your like me, the ID's just sound "right". Some subs, not to name brands, either hit low, too much boom and nothing else, or are too tight and can't dig deep. These subs just do it all well, whatever you ask them to do and do it with great sound quality. They offer a nice compromise a balance per se between upper and lower frequency performance. It may not be for everyone or the performance they want, then again that's why there are so many different subs.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

OK if people are still interested, I think there are 4 left for the final 25 count of the IDQ12v2D4. I will let you guys know when they are finished... I will probably getthem all built by the end of next week. Also I'll keep you all updated as to the possible final version MAX 15 and new proto 10 slim Q that just came in.


----------



## schmiddr2

Thanks. To take these steps gives your company the ability to grow in our community, of which there are thousands of active users. I'm sure hatedguy advised you to contact DIYMA or MasterMod about becoming a supporting vendor, but to be clear these are the right guys to advise you on this.


----------



## ZAKOH

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> he fact that it's NOT a two way filter and only a filter for the TWEETER! I think that burns me up the most. Rich Coe helped map it out and confirms it... the mid rolls off naturally... all the crossover components adjust the tweeter...


If this is the case, at least the expert users can bi-amp these speakers if they wish. I have been told that having a filter on the woofer is not always bad if the woofer has a well-behaved mild break up. Also, in a car, when the woofer is off axis, it will have a dip up to -10dB above 2KHz anyways.


----------



## MBorgardt

> he fact that it's NOT a two way filter and only a filter for the TWEETER! I think that burns me up the most. Rich Coe helped map it out and confirms it... the mid rolls off naturally... all the crossover components adjust the tweeter...


 Really DIYMA remove my post.... it not like I was lying... after all other than Eric who knows that driver better in it's design.


----------



## schmiddr2

Yes, I did. If you want to give constructive criticism then do it, but talking down to people will not be allowed. Since it's unlikely you are going to be supportive of the direction of this thread, why don't you just skip posting in this thread. Nothing personal, just not something I want to see happening.


----------



## MBorgardt

Hey your right i am talking down and for good reasons...but your right ...I will leave this thread alone.

Try using tapatalk on your phone.


----------



## Mixman

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK if people are still interested, I think there are 4 left for the final 25 count of the IDQ12v2D4. I will let you guys know when they are finished... I will probably getthem all built by the end of next week. Also I'll keep you all updated as to the possible final version MAX 15 and new proto 10 slim Q that just came in.



If you find a IDQ10 anywhere let me know!


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK if people are still interested, I think there are 4 left for the final 25 count of the IDQ12v2D4. I will let you guys know when they are finished... I will probably getthem all built by the end of next week. Also I'll keep you all updated as to the possible final version MAX 15 and new proto 10 slim Q that just came in.


I tried to send you a PM but your box is full. So I would like to make a request for one(1).
Wish i could afford more but...
So feel free to send a pm to let me know the status.

Thanks, Luke


----------



## hurrication

ZAKOH said:


> So what exactly makes IDQ V2 a good subwoofer? In what way is it better or worse than v3? I remember xtremerevolution was a bit advocate of those. I am happy with my infinity kappa, but curious about this one. I am a fan of a subwoofer that digs a bit lower, and I heard IDQv2 did not extend as low as some others.


From what I discovered when I reconed an IDQ 10: There is nothing at all special about the motor in any way whatsoever - it just uses that perfect combination of soft parts to yield an all around awesome sub. Similar to an OS W6.. no tricks magic, just the right soft parts.


----------



## rexroadj

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK then how about some input for me concerning a 3 way kit? We're kicking the idea around and I'd personally like end user's feedback. Dome? Cone? 2.5", 3".... a la carte? Complete kit? Add on to existing kits? etc etc etc.


Just been doing some thinking......Given the loss of the horn line (no horns right?) your loosing some pretty dynamic midrange from your lines! If you can get a 4" (I think in this case a 4" is a better fit.....) that is on par with the XS lines..... You can have a killer, loud, clean, and VERY dynamic 3way set....especially if you come up with a 8" around the likes to xs/idq? 

I know thats what I need in my build! By the way...I think you should send that prototype max8 my way to put it through the ringer! And/or the 15 too!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Noted Luke, you're in the queue. I'll have a count today... Gotta get off my ass and go back there myself... LOL. But rest assured I'll have a final count today for you guys.. Then I'll figure out how to set up that temp vendor forum for the bulk single item and we can do this as soon as I get em done.

-Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Well I guess I shouldn't be too hasty with my comments... My sincerest apologies to Matt and Eric. Concerning the comp sets... I simply want to see all our products improve for the best and I formally retract any negative comment I previously made about them. They have garnered plenty of respect on their own part in this community. I only want the best for Image and its fans. No more negativity on my part towards the line in any of its iterations. 

-Frankie


----------



## soundray

I want to get on the list for a pair of the IDQ v2 12's!
Raymund


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

No worries... Raymund. I think you'll be the last of the bunch. I'm checking on how many we can build today. Again, these drivers will be all new softparts, and very clean motors and baskets.... We'd actually have to order boxes to ship them... I'll let you guys know buy end of day how many I can build.

-Frankie


----------



## Hertz5400LincolnLS

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> No worries... Raymund. I think you'll be the last of the bunch. I'm checking on how many we can build today. Again, these drivers will be all new softparts, and very clean motors and baskets.... We'd actually have to order boxes to ship them... I'll let you guys know buy end of day how many I can build.
> 
> -Frankie


If there are any left I'd take 2-4

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

OK I'll do the check I may have 2 to spare... Once the count happens later, I'll be sure to keep you guys posted. 

-Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

OK guys I have the frames/motors counted. I find that 25 are worthy of 9/10 to be cleaned and re-newed with new coils and soft parts. I'll be cleaning them over the next few days. As the count sits I've tallied 21 so far that are accounted for to these members...
[email protected] - 4 pcs
lovesmusic - 2 pcs
PPI_GUY - 2 pcs
RNBRAD - 1 pc
MINBARI - ?? Pcs
Thomasluke - 1 pc
tophatjimmy -3 pcs
soundjunkie - 2 pcs
adrenalinejunkie - 2 pcs
legend94 - 2 pcs
hertz5400lincolnls - 4pcs
Count comes to 21 accounted for. MINBARI will have first dibs on the other 4 unless I've missed anyone. Let me know as I will start the cleanup and prep for this week.
As I've said previously the pricing on these will be $100 each plus shipping which won't be bad since its through FedEx. Once they're completed I'll have the boxes ordered.

Thanks again for all the input guys! 

Best regards, 
Frankie


----------



## schmiddr2

If you don't mind throwing me on that list from my previous request, I would appreciate it. Sorry minbari.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Refresh my memory Schmiddy... How many did you want? There's 4 unaccounted for, not including if MINBARI wanted on or two... lemme know--- Frankie


----------



## schmiddr2

Just one.


----------



## RNBRAD

I'd like push connectors if you can whatever the extra cost.


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK guys I have the frames/motors counted. I find that 25 are worthy of 9/10 to be cleaned and re-newed with new coils and soft parts. I'll be cleaning them over the next few days. As the count sits I've tallied 21 so far that are accounted for to these members...
> [email protected] - 4 pcs
> lovesmusic - 2 pcs
> PPI_GUY - 2 pcs
> RNBRAD - 1 pc
> MINBARI - ?? Pcs
> Thomasluke - 1 pc
> tophatjimmy -3 pcs
> soundjunkie - 2 pcs
> adrenalinejunkie - 2 pcs
> legend94 - 2 pcs
> hertz5400lincolnls - 4pcs
> Count comes to 21 accounted for. MINBARI will have first dibs on the other 4 unless I've missed anyone. Let me know as I will start the cleanup and prep for this week.
> As I've said previously the pricing on these will be $100 each plus shipping which won't be bad since its through FedEx. Once they're completed I'll have the boxes ordered.
> 
> Thanks again for all the input guys!
> 
> Best regards,
> Frankie



Thanks man. Great price too.



RNBRAD said:


> I'd like push connectors if you can whatever the extra cost.


So would I but really....I just want one of them to cram in my truck.


----------



## MUGWUMP

Heya Frankie. I'm ready to purchse 2 additional IDmax 12d2s and would like to know if you can recommend a vendor or maybe I can purchase direct from you guys?

Thanks,

Burke

I tried to PM you , but your box is full.


----------



## hurrication

What kind of a deal could you do on old beat up or worn out motors/frames with new soft parts?


----------



## mt2marc1

ill take 2.. u have a pm...


----------



## dwhite832003

Edit jus noticed they are v2's thought they were V3's!


----------



## papasin

PM sent in the early hours of the day.


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK guys I have the frames/motors counted. I find that 25 are worthy of 9/10 to be cleaned and re-newed with new coils and soft parts. I'll be cleaning them over the next few days. As the count sits I've tallied 21 so far that are accounted for to these members...
> [email protected] - 4 pcs
> lovesmusic - 2 pcs
> PPI_GUY - 2 pcs
> RNBRAD - 1 pc
> MINBARI - ?? Pcs
> Thomasluke - 1 pc
> tophatjimmy -3 pcs
> soundjunkie - 2 pcs
> adrenalinejunkie - 2 pcs
> legend94 - 2 pcs
> hertz5400lincolnls - 4pcs
> Count comes to 21 accounted for. MINBARI will have first dibs on the other 4 unless I've missed anyone. Let me know as I will start the cleanup and prep for this week.
> As I've said previously the pricing on these will be $100 each plus shipping which won't be bad since its through FedEx. Once they're completed I'll have the boxes ordered.
> 
> Thanks again for all the input guys!
> 
> Best regards,
> Frankie


Good see my email for 4 went through


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Update... The only thing transferred will be motors... Soft parts, coil, AND frame will be new... at that juncture they'll be 9.5/10. I'm looking at number of coils now there may be the ability to make more... I'll post again within the hour....
As for push connectors, I'll see if they're compatible.

- Frankie


----------



## legend94

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> As for push connectors, I'll see if they're compatible.
> 
> - Frankie


if it wouldn't be too much trouble see if you can mount the idqv3 cone in the idqv2 frame, paint the basket red, leave the sticker off, and add a cast basket!


----------



## rexroadj

legend94 said:


> if it wouldn't be too much trouble see if you can mount the idqv3 cone in the idqv2 frame, paint the basket red, leave the sticker off, and add a cast basket!


Same for mine! Except make it look just like an 8" IDMAX (pair) hold the paint and I dont mind the sticker


----------



## Mixman

And sell me a refurbed IDmax10 while you are at it!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

I know... I think they just wanted to refresh them and give them more excursion, a reconable diaphragm capability in field... and make them look more similar to the MAXes and I guess to get away from the stamped steel basket that was around forever...
I don't really know myself. I personally was kicking around the idea of a 20th anniversary edition. BUT I'm uncertain if we're able to get the proper parts to build them again and how much they'd go for.... even though they'd probably be a huge success if they were an EXACT match of the originals... that's the thing. 

Hell I've used em and loved em before being anywhere near the manufacturing level of things... but corporate tends to screw with our affections. LOL

- Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Otherwise stripped all the motors today and will start cleaning and prepping them tomorrow. I counted 31 motors also... Updates to follow.

- Frankie


----------



## legend94

gregerst22 said:


> why was it ever discontinued or why was it never brought back into full production?


i think the below is a great answer..more spl and probably cheaper with the newer plastic basket.

and an earlier comment made compared them to the old jl w6 series. those and the idqv2 were just built for what was needed, nothing fancy.



ImageDynamicsTech said:


> I know... I think they just wanted to refresh them and give them more excursion, a reconable diaphragm capability in field... get away from the stamped steel basket that was around forever...


----------



## Genxx

Since we are already a little off topic. 

Not currently in a vehicle I own-3 like new 10IDQv2, 2 12IDQv2
Installed 2 15IDQv2 and 1 12IDQv2.

The IDQv2 are the most versital sub I have ever used or owned. They just sound great with virtual no work. These are my favorite sub of all time. *The do everything well*. These are also the only sub I have never heard anyone say nothing negative about or complain about.

IMO I think you would have a very successful product if anyone ever brought them back out for a speacial production run.

In some ways you have to be amazed that after all of the years with companies trying to improve things that the IDQv2 is still considered some of the best all around subs ever created.


----------



## bassace

Looks like I missed out, maybe if you were to do the same with a pre-production I personally would be greatly interested. 

Also, I have heard there were some problems with the voice coil scraping the motor due to the tight tolerances on the IDMax V3, I'm sure this would be fixed. Overall, I think the reconable design is wonderful and I would be less afraid to push the to it's limits. 

Looking at the website, I notice the new design. I personally like the previous design basket and motor appearance. But in the end, the sonic characteristics are the most important.


----------



## MUGWUMP

bassace said:


> Looks like I missed out, maybe if you were to do the same with a pre-production I personally would be greatly interested.
> 
> Also, I have heard there were some *problems with the voice coil scraping the motor* due to the tight tolerances on the IDMax V3, I'm sure this would be fixed. Overall, I think the reconable design is wonderful and I would be less afraid to push the to it's limits.
> 
> Looking at the website, I notice the new design. I personally like the previous design basket and motor appearance. But in the end, the sonic characteristics are the most important.


I had to have the voice coil shimmed on my max12 after about 6 months of use. I had Van L Speakerworks in Chicago do the work. It started buzzing and I was worried I screwed it up, but John insisted it wasn't from abuse. Other than that, I love this thing. That's why I want two more so I can try going IB to get rid of the giant box in my trunk and still keep the SPL. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen again. It cost me $150 to get it fixed.


----------



## legend94

Genxx said:


> In some ways you have to be amazed that after all of the years with companies trying to improve things that the IDQv2 is still considered some of the best all around subs ever created.


I agree and I would love to see them brought back as they were with no changes made. Well one thing I do not like about them is the cone texture on the outside, sure it looks cool but it takes smudges and sratches to easy


----------



## rexroadj

But would people pay what the price would be on them now? We havent seen an msrp on something like the IDQ for a while! Its not going to get any cheaper to manufacture them. I dont think the bulk market would sustain the business at the price they would be at due to even the simple things like looks, but more importantly materials. Upgrades were made for reasons. Not taking anything away from the original IDQ but people get business twisted from reality and in this case I fear, nostalgia! I just dont see most people paying what the cost would have to be for it. Remember diyma type freaks make up less then 1% of the market, although with ID never reaching half the country with there sales representation (no wonder all the problems, where was the logic there?) Its already a niche (ID) market so perhaps they could still justify a small run.....But again, would you pay upper 2ish-300$ for them? Dont see how the msrp could be any less! I doubt most would! Not that its not "worth" it, but thats dictated by market....market says not likely


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

To chime in here on a "Re-Issue" of the IDQ v2. I'm really pushing to get these 30 or so that I found just released to you guys ... There are no more after this. Unfortunately I feel that a 20th anniversary edition if you will would be of great appeal. Rest assured I am going to have my parts guys see about how we could go about sourcing the original quality parts, motor to coil, spider to frame. If I even have an inkling of this being a reality you guys will have first crack. As for pricing I'd say for a driver as simple and elegant as the IDQv2 was.... I couldn't see an MSRP being any more than $249 for a 12" Mainly because it would compete directly with a 12W3 from JL per se. Thoughts from the peanut gallery? LOL 

I should have all the motors ready to be assembled by this fri.... depending on how much testing I do over the next few days. I think a realistic time frame for driver full assembly and testing should be no later than end of next week to start taking orders... Sound good for everyone? Let me know!

Thanks again guys.... - Frankie


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> To chime in here on a "Re-Issue" of the IDQ v2. I'm really pushing to get these 30 or so that I found just released to you guys ... There are no more after this. Unfortunately I feel that a 20th anniversary edition if you will would be of great appeal. Rest assured I am going to have my parts guys see about how we could go about sourcing the original quality parts, motor to coil, spider to frame. If I even have an inkling of this being a reality you guys will have first crack. As for pricing I'd say for a driver as simple and elegant as the IDQv2 was.... I couldn't see an MSRP being any more than $249 for a 12" Mainly because it would compete directly with a 12W3 from JL per se. Thoughts from the peanut gallery? LOL
> 
> I should have all the motors ready to be assembled by this fri.... depending on how much testing I do over the next few days. I think a realistic time frame for driver full assembly and testing should be no later than end of next week to start taking orders... Sound good for everyone? Let me know!
> 
> Thanks again guys.... - Frankie


Sounds f'n amazing. As soon as you get the payment method worked out let me know.


----------



## rexroadj

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> To chime in here on a "Re-Issue" of the IDQ v2. I'm really pushing to get these 30 or so that I found just released to you guys ... There are no more after this. Unfortunately I feel that a 20th anniversary edition if you will would be of great appeal. Rest assured I am going to have my parts guys see about how we could go about sourcing the original quality parts, motor to coil, spider to frame. If I even have an inkling of this being a reality you guys will have first crack. As for pricing I'd say for a driver as simple and elegant as the IDQv2 was.... I couldn't see an MSRP being any more than $249 for a 12" Mainly because it would compete directly with a 12W3 from JL per se. Thoughts from the peanut gallery? LOL
> 
> I should have all the motors ready to be assembled by this fri.... depending on how much testing I do over the next few days. I think a realistic time frame for driver full assembly and testing should be no later than end of next week to start taking orders... Sound good for everyone? Let me know!
> 
> Thanks again guys.... - Frankie


Sounds like GREAT pricing! Be interesting to see if its "do able"!!!

I'm pretty ecstatic... found out I can actually fit a pair of max 10s sealed or maybe a max12? I was concerned with depth but I can go about 9"deep. I may be able to get up to 2.5cuft out of the space......
If I go ID for my build this will be great!


----------



## adrenalinejunkie

Keep us posted on everything. LOL


----------



## PPI_GUY

Frankie, will the specs on the limited 30 run subs be identical to the original versions? T/S parameters, power handling, etc?

Also, i'd much prefer the push-lock type terminals if you can make them work.


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

PPI_GUY said:


> Frankie, will the specs on the limited 30 run subs be identical to the original versions? T/S parameters, power handling, etc?
> 
> Also, i'd much prefer the push-lock type terminals if you can make them work.


Agreed on push lock....

Also curious on specs remain same


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

It seems like my last post didn't make it up! lol ok To answer PPI all the raw parts will be the same so T/S should presumably be spot on. As for the push terminal thing... I asked Ricardo and he said possibly not... but once I'm in the build process on Monday I'll have a better feel for it to see if it's able to be done W/O degrading any performance.... 

- Frankie


----------



## Mic10is

so...I guess enforcing the need for a vendors membership is purely selective based on who needs or wants things.....


----------



## schmiddr2

That is a guess. I have already discussed vendor membership with IDTech and if he has sold anything yet I am not aware of it.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

No worries... I'm going to give you guys the exact time when I will put up the two week temporary vendor forum... Once That is up I will discuss the payment and delivery of the product. I am only using this thread to inform the community of these actions I will take. Under no circumstances will I try to circumvent making an actual vendor forum for the sales of these drivers. I'm only finding out interest level to see if this is a viable pursuit. No worries all will be done according to DIYMAs provisions.... 


-Frankie


----------



## LovesMusic

ID went in the right direction hiring you Frankie... we'll all be waiting on the good word


----------



## rexroadj

Hey Frankie, 
Has anything changed as far as the ID Max (10"/12") in the last year or so? Just curious while I try to figure things out? 
Thanks
J


----------



## mos805

Frankie is awesome! Tried getting a recone for my IDQ and got forgotten about for over a month, emailed Frankie and he sorted things out, got my recone in less than a week thanks man.


----------



## legend94

cajunner said:


> one bad review here on the rebuilds not being "in spec" or having consistency issues could kill the momentum of a nostalgia-led anniversary run.
> 
> I'd hold off on getting real excited about the new/old IDQ until after some of the diyma testers get busy with them on a personal level.
> 
> Not to fault the enthusiastic Frankie for an assumption of build level expertise being equal to previous "oversight" but it remains to be seen if something was lost in translation to the now, and the current crop of turnstile spinners with the glue gun hands.



buzz kill! 

if you are interested in an original idq12v2 i have on that is in the best shape i have seen other than one being new. it wont be 100 bucks however


----------



## kizz

I did not read all of this thread but a 3.5" or even 4" cone midrange would be awesome. and the idea for an 8" midbass with small magnet is GREAT! Think we can get the ID OEM midbass back?


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hello Cajunner. I totally agree with your opinion. Why trust me? Noone knows who I am! LOL totally understandable. I'm talking to our assembly guy as I type this. He's been with ID since before the IDQ v2s inception. He will be doing the assembly with me to make sure they're done perfectly. Plus I'll have our speaker engineer LMS the drivers prior to testing. So as I can get T/S spec from them and compare.... I hope you didn't think I'd just glue em, screw em, and tatoo em and ship em' with no regards for everyone's feelings!! lol 
But whatever, I'm just gonna casually do this and not rush because there isn't a reason to. If I build a few per day and test... I'm sure there won't be any deviations in spec and performance. But hey... I'm throwing this out there and if you guys want em' great if not... no biggie, I'd rather see something put to use than shelved myself. 

Best regards, Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hey Rex. As far as the v.4 MAX 10-12 go. Cosmetics yes, and from what I was able to drag out of the acoustical engineer.... "improved cone geometry". He seems a bit tight lipped about the details.... what can I say. lol I may just take Mags n me and go to Germany with Grizz! LOL he seems to be lovin life!


----------



## rexroadj

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Hey Rex. As far as the v.4 MAX 10-12 go. Cosmetics yes, and from what I was able to drag out of the acoustical engineer.... "improved cone geometry". He seems a bit tight lipped about the details.... what can I say. lol I may just take Mags n me and go to Germany with Grizz! LOL he seems to be lovin life!


Why not? **** Germany = top 5 economies in the world? AMAZING audio representation, beer, and the black forest as well as great accessibility to the rest of europe? Whats not to love!!!

Improved cone geometry you say? Hmmm. No clue what that may mean? Did the materials change with the geometry? 

"just glue em, screw em, tatoo em, and ship em' " LOL!!! I LOVE that! Could be used for countless things! Gonna remember that one!

Guys, 
I have spoken a bit to Frankie. He is full of energy, optimism, and a true passion for the field! His presence is a great asset here. I completely understand the original ID history, people involved, and what they all mean. Its business and it all happened for a reason other then sore holes! I can appreciate the other side of things too....**** this was there baby! I get it and respect it. Dont hold that against others trying to keep it alive and make it fit a market. It is still a business, and they are ACTIVELY open to our opinion. Thats pretty great! I dont know the rest at ID (whats up with that Frankie?) but this guy is putting his neck out and at a minimum deserves respect! 

Kyle- X2 on the 3.5-4" midrange


----------



## legend94

rexroadj said:


> . It is still a business, and they are ACTIVELY open to our opinion. Thats pretty great! I dont know the rest at ID (whats up with that Frankie?) but this guy is putting his neck out and at a minimum deserves respect!


I agree and I hope some of the negative comments so far are taken easily, they seem to have been. If Frankie is as good with follow through as he is the pep talk then I would be open to giving their other products another shot which was not the case a week ago.

We are a small percentage of what most people want so with any luck we will get more offers like this one in the future from old parts 

As someone has already eluded, whats up with those id oem mids? lol


----------



## rexroadj

legend94 said:


> I agree and I hope some of the negative comments so far are taken easily, they seem to have been. If Frankie is as good with follow through as he is the pep talk then I would be open to giving their other products another shot which was not the case a week ago.
> 
> We are a small percentage of what most people want so with any luck we will get more offers like this one in the future from old parts
> 
> As someone has already eluded, whats up with those id oem mids? lol


I'm not going to speak for him....but I will say, I have a feeling he carries a lot on his plate. With everything here to this point and a lot of my private question, he has been johnny on the spot! I assume and expect nothing less with the rest of whats been discussed......just amazed at how he pulls it all off! must be the poster child for 5hr energy :laugh:
I for one, am excited to see what happens and what comes from all this. I know its very hard for so many to separate business from nostalgia and loyalty.....and I get it. I however, come from the business world so I find it easy to comprehend that ave first. 

All good! Hey, I can tell you there trying!


----------



## legend94

A little tease as to how mint these should be


----------



## rexroadj

^ See, thats just Perrty ^


----------



## cflores3

I'll take 2 of the idqs when available


----------



## legend94

rexroadj said:


> ^ See, thats just Perrty ^


do you know how damn tough it was to find one in this shape? hifiaudioguy had one stashed away and I was lucky enough to have him send it my way


----------



## req

i have not read the whole thread.

good on you guys for trying to do good to the whole ID thing. and i applaud you more for coming here and talking with the consumer.

on the topic of speakers - the shallow ten is a SEALED BACK subwoofer? did i read this correctly?



ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Also I'm currently in the process of beta testing a prototype slim IDQ 10" which should be upon completion about 3.5" deep with a sealed back and..... RECONABLE!
> 
> Frankie - Image Dynamics Technical Director


this would be amazing. if i read this correct, this means no enclosure - right?


how about a *sealed back midbass driver* - i have never seen one of these and it would solve lots of people issues.


----------



## 04silverz

Frankie
Interesting tbread over at caraudio.com on ID and woofersetc. Might be worth u checking out...


----------



## rexroadj

04silverz said:


> Frankie
> Interesting tbread over at caraudio.com on ID and woofersetc. Might be worth u checking out...


Link?


----------



## rexroadj

gregerst22 said:


> Is it this soap opera of a thread? Wooferetc. Scam Plus Image Dynamics Scam Cooperation
> I read the first post then skipped to the end. Lol


THanks! I'm a member but I dont visit...its a 99.9% thread **** show!
I can hardly wait 

probably wont make it past 1, definitely wont look at the end LOL!


----------



## rexroadj

Ok, I gave it the first post and I was done....... Really? So had an issue with Woofers? (shocker!) and they gave you the hard time (shocker) you called there bluff and had them ready to comply and you cut off communications? And where exactly does ID get the issue? HOLY HELL......Frankie, cut and run buddy. You cant have an rational conversation with irrational people.


----------



## subwoofery

gregerst22 said:


> Is it this soap opera of a thread? Wooferetc. Scam Plus Image Dynamics Scam Cooperation
> I read the first post then skipped to the end. Lol


Smoothfidelity... Isn't he working for Linear Power/Blues or something? Remember this name being associated with LP...

Kelvin


----------



## rexroadj

subwoofery said:


> Smoothfidelity... Isn't he working for Linear Power/Blues or something? Remember this name being associated with LP...
> 
> Kelvin


well if thats the case? Oh dear, its always something with them!


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

Any updates on this deal?


----------



## legend94

no way i am reading that entire thread! i am not a huge woofers etc fan either with my experience with them.


----------



## 04silverz

Yeah that's the thread
Not so much I'm defending woofers, there's enough reviews online about them. As stated above, the dude is blaming ID as well. May or may not be truth to his stayements. Thread is hard to read but I got in on it early and now it's like a car wreck, I can't turn away


----------



## glastron

How high can the idq12v2 play? If I could use them in my doors as midbass I'd probably take a couple of them (if there are any left). Any idq8 parts sitting around?


----------



## legend94

04silverz said:


> Yeah that's the thread
> Not so much I'm defending woofers, there's enough reviews online about them. As stated above, the dude is blaming ID as well. May or may not be truth to his stayements. Thread is hard to read but I got in on it early and now it's like a car wreck, I can't turn away


my guess is they sold him an open box as new or he is lying


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Sorry I haven't been on all weekend and yesterday guys... Went out with a bud that came out to Cali for a couple days... took a day vacay to catch up on old times... On to biz.... This issue with smoothfidelity.. I want to do everything I can to help him out and I already spoke with him. I am looking into this and hopefully will come to a resolution. I have no idea about any of this heresay about our company participating in a SCAM. Ugh. This is going to throw me off a couple days.... oh well. 

Ill be in touch guys...

- Frankie


----------



## 04silverz

Sorry didnt mean to sidetrack the thread or your time. Just figured it might be worth it to at least try to get him to see it from another perspective


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

No biggie. Thanks for bringing it to my attention Horseman, thanks to you as well. I'll bring more info to light as I get it...

- Frankie

AHHH the soap opera that is ID! LOL


----------



## Horsemanwill

glastron said:


> How high can the idq12v2 play? If I could use them in my doors as midbass I'd probably take a couple of them (if there are any left). Any idq8 parts sitting around?


no the idq's won't be good for midbass.


----------



## legend94

Horsemanwill said:


> no the idq's won't be good for midbass.


no but i would like to see them in a door!


----------



## rexroadj

legend94 said:


> no but i would like to see them in a door!


LOL!!!! I was thinking the same when I read that! I was gonna say great idea! Please post pics when done! (not implying that he couldnt do it fyi....just be cool to see is all


----------



## req

any comment on post 206 frankie?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1819006-post206.html



req said:


> i have not read the whole thread.
> 
> good on you guys for trying to do good to the whole ID thing. and i applaud you more for coming here and talking with the consumer.
> 
> on the topic of speakers - the shallow ten is a SEALED BACK subwoofer? did i read this correctly?
> 
> 
> 
> this would be amazing. if i read this correct, this means no enclosure - right?
> 
> 
> how about a *sealed back midbass driver* - i have never seen one of these and it would solve lots of people issues.


----------



## legend94

rexroadj said:


> Please post pics when done! (not implying that he couldnt do it fyi....just be cool to see is all


Agreed, it could be done but would take a hell of a lot of work! I would love to see it


----------



## RNBRAD

legend94 said:


> my guess is they sold him an open box as new or he is lying


My guess too. Could of possibly been an innocent mistake on woofers or ID. Maybe someone that was suppose to get a repair back ended up getting a new sub. Lol.


----------



## DonH

Fankie, what type of cooling features does the 15" MAX encorporate?


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Sorry I've been trying to mediate the issue with the whole scam debacle. Perhaps I mistyped I apologize. I meant to say the backplane/Tyoke won't require venting so far as the current modelling suggests. Meaning it will have perimeter voice coil venting and can be mounted with the T yoke against an enclosure wall if necessary without increasing heat build up in the coil. It will still need an enclosure. Again we are working as fast as possible to push all these projects forward. Thanks for all the interest and continued support....
- Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Cooling features will be as the 12 and 10 MACs. I haven't gotten thru all the details on the woofer yet. We're still finalizing approval for a production model. Once that's totally done I'll lay out all the particulars. I think the T/S parameters are ready though for the dual 2 that we've been testing. I'll be in touch.

-Frankie


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

How are the idq units coming along


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Kind of hit the skids, I'm still gonna get to em but there's a slew of testing getting in the way. I'm going to dedicate the latter half of today and tomorrow to building them. Worst case this will set me back til sometime next week to be done....

Thanks in advance for the patience.

Best regards, 

Frankie


----------



## Hertz5400LincolnLS

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Kind of hit the skids, I'm still gonna get to em but there's a slew of testing getting in the way. I'm going to dedicate the latter half of today and tomorrow to building them. Worst case this will set me back til sometime next week to be done....
> 
> Thanks in advance for the patience.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Frankie


Did you get the vendor thing straightened out and will those who you listed earlier in the thread still be entitled to make those purchases? (You have me down for 4). If so, when and where do we send payment and shipping info?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

As for the vendor forum... I have told the moderators and the people who are part of this forum, I will not approve the sale of these units until I have assembled and fully tested everything and they meet spec. Once that happens I have a list of all the members who demonstrated interest and they will be allowed to have first dibs. I am not going to offend anyone on this forum by selling anything without going through the proper channels. I am here to do things right the first time.... Stay tuned....

Best regards, 

Frankie


----------



## goodstuff

req said:


> any comment on post 206 frankie?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1819006-post206.html







ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Sorry I've been trying to mediate the issue with the whole scam debacle. Perhaps I mistyped I apologize. I meant to say the backplane/Tyoke won't require venting so far as the current modelling suggests. Meaning it will have perimeter voice coil venting and can be mounted with the T yoke against an enclosure wall if necessary without increasing heat build up in the coil. It will still need an enclosure. Again we are working as fast as possible to push all these projects forward. Thanks for all the interest and continued support....
> - Frankie


Aww Req got his heart broke on vday. :laugh:


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hey guys.... update. I just finished gluing together 10 coils/spiders with plateaus. There is only one difference between the old drivers and the new. The old drivers used a clear epoxy and now we use a black epoxy... its stronger than the clear from what I've been told so the only thing is that where the adhesive soaks into the spider at the edge, there is black glue. I hope that doesn't dissuade anyone. Just wanted to keep you informed of the progress. Tmrw I will assemble the motors and coils and frames and hopefully have them testable. As for comparison, we have a mint condition original one here to check T/S spec against to ensure similarity. Stay tuned.... 

- Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Ok cajunner. If the packaging doesn't match the original packaging I guess that means that there's only half as much suspension travel and 1/4 the power handling. Lol I'm tryin to be completely transparent here and offer up something to you guys that only your members can appreciate. If you are so critical about the color of an adhesive even though the drivers T/S parameters and performance match.... perhaps I'll just rescind my offer and put all the parts out for recycling. Does anyone else share this sentiment? Please sound off I invite the criticism. I only want to do the best for our fans and the company as a whole. I don't share the apathy and I difference that plagues many of those that put 20+ years into this industry. 

Hey maybe I'm overreacting since I'm still exasperated about this whole scam thing but hey you guys decide. I'll leave it up to a majority. Maybe I'll just keep em' all.


----------



## schmiddr2

I think he means that they will be collector items since there will only be a limited number of them and they might be perceived to be better than the originals.


----------



## hurrication

He's more than likely just being facetious.


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Ok cajunner. If the packaging doesn't match the original packaging I guess that means that there's only half as much suspension travel and 1/4 the power handling. Lol I'm tryin to be completely transparent here and offer up something to you guys that only your members can appreciate. If you are so critical about the color of an adhesive even though the drivers T/S parameters and performance match.... perhaps I'll just rescind my offer and put all the parts out for recycling. Does anyone else share this sentiment? Please sound off I invite the criticism. I only want to do the best for our fans and the company as a whole. I don't share the apathy and I difference that plagues many of those that put 20+ years into this industry.
> 
> Hey maybe I'm overreacting since I'm still exasperated about this whole scam thing but hey you guys decide. I'll leave it up to a majority. Maybe I'll just keep em' all.





schmiddr2 said:


> I think he means that they will be collector items since there will only be a limited number of them and they might be perceived to be better than the originals.[/QUOTE
> 
> That's exactly what he was saying. **** I wouldn't care if they had rainbow baskets if they sound the same.


----------



## thomasluke

cajunner said:


> the infamous Frankie black strip models.
> 
> twice the output, double charged magnets.
> 
> collectors, take your spots.


In acouple years that's gonna be the description in my ebay add....thanks


----------



## rexroadj

thomasluke said:


> In acouple years that's gonna be the description in my ebay add....thanks


To good a line in a classified ad to wait a few years! Lets just get one to Jax and wait a few hrs? :laugh:


----------



## thomasluke

rexroadj said:


> To good a line in a classified ad to wait a few years! Lets just get one to Jax and wait a few hrs? :laugh:


:laugh:
A few hours....thirty mins top


----------



## rexroadj

trying for the benefit of the doubt. Subs have a 20-30min longer shelf life usually with him then amps. Seeing has he buys and sells usually while still in transit...I was giving wiggle room LOL!!!!!

Just messin, Your good people Mike!


----------



## RNBRAD

Can I get mine autographed?


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Oh brother sorry about that cajunner. I'm just a little edgy over the whole scam debacle thing and rightfully so. But thanks again for the kind words of support. I'm pleased that I can be a part of this and that I have people on the receiving end that are truly appreciative of the product. There are far too many NON BELIEVERS that couldn't appreciate the capabilities of this woofer, let alone understand past "OOOOH its got a big magnet!! Shiny Chrome!!! I bet it'll make my iPod sound boomin!" lol ... back to the table...

- Frankie


----------



## subwoofery

thomasluke said:


> In acouple years that's gonna be the description in my ebay add....thanks


WHAT???  You're planning to sell those? 

Kelvin


----------



## subwoofery

cajunner said:


> the infamous Frankie black strip models.
> 
> twice the output, double charged magnets.
> 
> collectors, take your spots.


Yep... Sounds too me this would be a collector item  

Just put "DIYMA" on the basket and you'd all be set  

Kelvin


----------



## RNBRAD

cajunner said:


> yes, I'm guilty of that as well, but it was a bit of a jab at all the eager ID fans waiting on their special last of the mohicans subs. I never owned an IDQV2 sub and am a bit jealous, not having the available funds at the moment to strike an iron while it's hot.


My closet queen will be awaiting your call to bass. However the IDQV2-FABG (Frankie Assembled Black Glue) model fetches a premium price.


----------



## RNBRAD

subwoofery said:


> Yep... Sounds too me this would be a collector item
> 
> Just put "DIYMA" on the basket and you'd all be set
> 
> Kelvin


Taking that idea, how cool would it be to have an ID team autographed basket? I'd pay extra for it!!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hell I'll do it! I have 5 assembled drying curently waiting for dustcaps and solder for the terminals.... We have a pristine driver here for LMS comparison for T/S specs... I should have all assembled and tested by the end of next week. I think it'd be cool to do a TEAM ID/DIYMA logo on the driver somewhere.... hmmmm thoughts? Gotta ASSemble...lol

-frankie


----------



## RNBRAD

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Hell I'll do it! I have 5 assembled drying curently waiting for dustcaps and solder for the terminals.... We have a pristine driver here for LMS comparison for T/S specs... I should have all assembled and tested by the end of next week. I think it'd be cool to do a TEAM ID/DIYMA logo on the driver somewhere.... hmmmm thoughts? Gotta ASSemble...lol
> 
> -frankie


I'm all for it!!


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

im curious see the comparison to the prestine model you have in storage to compare the new ones to  
I like that step being added

Im all for some special badge or logo on the subwoofers not sure DIYMA logo would be wise but something saying they are special would be nice 


Almost wondering if i should store them as collectors or use them


----------



## WTF1978

ChevyHHRSS400 said:


> im curious see the comparison to the prestine model you have in storage to compare the new ones to
> I like that step being added
> 
> Im all for some special badge or logo on the subwoofers not sure DIYMA logo would be wise but something saying they are special would be nice
> 
> 
> Almost wondering if i should store them as collectors or use them


Everyone who receives one should have to post a video of it being used. If you are not going to use it you should have to send it back so someone else can!


----------



## RNBRAD

I'm going to put it in my wife's China cabinet next to her silver serving ware. I mean hey, might as well show something else off that's not normally used. Might throw some OS amps and what not in there too. How cool would that be?


----------



## adrenalinejunkie

Something that would distinguish them from the rest would be a good idea


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PPI_GUY

"Retro Edition" maybe?
Never seen that on any car audio product ever. Kinda cool I think.


----------



## cyrusthevirus23

Griffith said:


> So I went to check Image Dynamics' website and saw that they now have version 4 of the Idmax and IDQ.
> 
> The 12" Idmax recommended sealed enclosure is 2.5 cu ft. That's just way too big. Not good.


i had a pair of v3 that were mint that i got back in 2003 loved those things, i finally just parted ways with them a few weeks ago still the best sub i ever bought


----------



## ZAKOH

I hope all of this means that soon we will see a massive online blowout for the v3 subwoofer stocks? ;p

Also, what do you think of the old XS-57 comps? I noticed that they're not listed on ID's web site but it's still possible to find them online. Good speaker? How would they compare to Focal Polyglass or Hybrid Audio Clarus?


----------



## cyrusthevirus23

that could be a good possibly i may have to grab just one.


----------



## xxWarderxx

I'm really late to the party, but please add me to the list for two if any are, or become available. 

Would love it if these were autographed or differentiated in some way as others had mentioned. 

Thanks.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

I'll figure something out that's tasteful. Of course I'll be sure to run it by you guys first. Just a small update... 5 assembled ready for dustcaps.... going to run specs on the functional piece here... and depending on how long you guys feel like being patient... I was thinking of possibly painting the perimeter of the pole vent on the t yoke and stenciling in "20 YRS" or something to that effect.... maybe some initials on the basket with a sharpie or something.... OH yeah as for the XS-57s. they should be pretty stellar sound quality wise... They are exactly the same as the rest with all the same parts....
In comparison to the Focal or Hybrid... I can only say they are probably a step better that the polys probably more on line with the Kevlars IIRC... I used to be a Focal dealer like 10 years (Geez where'd the time go!_) ago. 

Gotta love my schizo post eh? 

More to come.... gonna assemble say 5 more each day hopefully if I can... The CP Moyen adhesive takes awhile to cure so that plus the tech stuff makes this a slower process than I originally anticipated... Hell these have been out of the loop for a bit... so another couple weeks should be worth the wait... LOL

- Frankie


----------



## cyrusthevirus23

WTF1978 said:


> Everyone who receives one should have to post a video of it being used. If you are not going to use it you should have to send it back so someone else can!


this sounds like a good idea


----------



## Tnutt19

Any new info on the max 15? Also any chance of doing a group buy for the forum members to help kick them off?


----------



## rexroadj

Tnutt19 said:


> Any new info on the max 15? Also any chance of doing a group buy for the forum members to help kick them off?


X2! I cant fit one permanently cause I do use my vehicle but for the right $ I wouldnt mind playing with one/review and keeping it for "fun" drives  

Or I could just go pick one up at a local retailer?.........OH YEAH! :mean:


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Rex I'm doing my best here.... as for a group buy I'll run it by the PTB and see what I can do... we gotta get it in house and built first before that happens.... 
As for group buy.... what kind of pricing does that qualify? I'm not familiar with the term so someone chime in and let me know what that usually entails so I can put that out there and see if the bosses slap me in the face for mentioning it....LOL

- Frankie


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Rex I'm doing my best here.... as for a group buy I'll run it by the PTB and see what I can do... we gotta get it in house and built first before that happens....
> As for group buy.... what kind of pricing does that qualify? I'm not familiar with the term so someone chime in and let me know what that usually entails so I can put that out there and see if the bosses slap me in the face for mentioning it....LOL
> 
> - Frankie


The group buy would be a discounted price. I have seen some do the same price for the group buy that they do for their vendors.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

I know this is completely unrelated and weird but I just wanted ot mention a friend of mine that I met at CES this Jan... his name's Tony and he's the owner of a little startup called Everest Sound Labs... Just a small company outta FL looking to make some SPL waves... He's a good NY guy that really gets a nutjob like me from Jerz... LOL check em out for ****z and giggles. 

- Frankie


----------



## Horsemanwill

PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Everest Sound Labs ES-D Amplifiers

this guy?


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Yeah he's a very cool guy and I know its an SPL company but hey... I'm all about the little guy... and he's literally a one man show... What the hell. I fig'd I'd give him a plug what could it hurt if anyone's got an SPL buddy they know.... Oh yeah... Hows about for the IDQs I'm building I'm talking to the factory to do say a chrome decal with "20 yrs" or something around the pole vent since 20 years is considered a Platinum anniversary (By gift standards.... ) lol lemme know what you guys think.... ideas?

- Frankie


----------



## schmiddr2

I like! But replace chrome with platinum. lol.


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Yeah he's a very cool guy and I know its an SPL company but hey... I'm all about the little guy... and he's literally a one man show... What the hell. I fig'd I'd give him a plug what could it hurt if anyone's got an SPL buddy they know.... Oh yeah... Hows about for the IDQs I'm building I'm talking to the factory to do say a chrome decal with "20 yrs" or something around the pole vent since 20 years is considered a Platinum anniversary (By gift standards.... ) lol lemme know what you guys think.... ideas?
> 
> Just make sure the chrome is quality and doesn't start to flake.
> 
> - Frankie





schmiddr2 said:


> I like! But replace chrome with platinum. lol.



That would be Ideal.


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

Chrome the basket for those looking put them up for display lol


----------



## legend94

I would like to see something different on the dust cap 

Perhaps as simple as a platinum color instead of the white writing of image dynamics?


----------



## schmiddr2

It is my assumption that the caps are already printed and have been sitting in a box for a few years from the last run. But that would be cool.


----------



## mos805

Damn with all these possibilities of nice touches to the IDQ I'm starting to wish I would have sent mine in to Image Dynamics for a recone a couple of weeks ago instread of doing it myself and had some special touches added to mine too lol.


----------



## PPI_GUY

How about a brushed platinum look on the dustcaps? With text that says "20th Anniversary Edition"?


----------



## legend94

PPI_GUY said:


> How about a brushed platinum look on the dustcaps? With text that says "20th Anniversary Edition"?


Are we this old :surprised: 20 years!

I like the brushed platinum look idea. Maybe just say, ID AE20 ?


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hey guys checking in... No news yet on the silvery colored decal for the pole vent idea yet from the factory ... but I'll keep the ideas duly noted... OK my acoustical engineer LMS'd the original dual 4 driver and the one I just finished putting together... I know I know I'm balancing a busy tech support week so far, testing iterations of the MAX 15 dual 4 that came in amongst other things... LOL ... I want to tread softly here because from what was just told to me is that a bunch of these motors are the dual 2 ohm gap rather than the dual 4... granted all other parts are dual 4 coils and new soft parts and such but here goes.... 
IDQ 12D4v2 measured Spec: IDQ 12D4v2 AE20
Revc: 7.4 ohms 7.6 ohms
Levc: 3.407 mH 3.577 mH
Fo: 28.131 26.799 Hz
Sd: 498.75 cm2 498.75 cm2
Md: 246 g same
BL: 14.729T-M 18.558 T-M
Qms: 3.807 4.079 
Qes: .941 .555
Qts: .755 .488
No: .166% .28%
SPLo: 84.2 dB 86.5
Mms: 156.141 g 149.273 g
Cms 205.005 mM/N 236.272 mM/N
Vas: 72.413 Ltr 83.458 Ltr
Mmd: 149.736 g 142.868 g

So there you have it original on the left and new built one on the right....
As for the motor difference the gap is less than .5mm on both sides of the coil from what it seems.... I just learned about this so I'll keep measuring them as I build them... If this dissuades some people I'm sorry. I'll just build em and test em as planned and keep around whatever doesn't get sold.... 

Keep the input coming! 

Thanks guys....

- Frankie


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

Reasoning for the differences in measurements? Mainly qts as I planned on infinite baffle


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

I believe that a bunch of these motors which aren't labelled are most likely a dual 2 ohm so that will slightly affect the T/S parameters I figure since the gap is a bit larger in diameter to accommodate the dual 2 ohm coil... I modeled both and the driver I built yields a .707 with heavy fill in 1.17 net sealed... Other than that I'm not sure how the original measurements were taken... If I can get a PDF of the graph from LMS I can try to post it... Or I can just email it to whomever wants to see the results.... I plan on doing this for every driver built to at least verify uniformity from new driver to new driver.... Hey I'm working with the parts I was able to locate... LOL
I'll email a pdf of the response to anyone interested ... just shoot me an email...


-Frankie


----------



## hurrication

The increase in BL and the lower qes with the same coil would lead me to assume the gaps on the dual2 motors are smaller than the ones on the dual4 motors. As a direct comparison in my eyes - the new ones sound like an improvement!!


----------



## thomasluke

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> I believe that a bunch of these motors which aren't labelled are most likely a dual 2 ohm so that will slightly affect the T/S parameters I figure since the gap is a bit larger in diameter to accommodate the dual 2 ohm coil... I modeled both and the driver I built yields a .707 with heavy fill in 1.17 net sealed... Other than that I'm not sure how the original measurements were taken... If I can get a PDF of the graph from LMS I can try to post it... Or I can just email it to whomever wants to see the results.... I plan on doing this for every driver built to at least verify uniformity from new driver to new driver.... Hey I'm working with the parts I was able to locate... LOL
> I'll email a pdf of the response to anyone interested ... just shoot me an email...
> 
> 
> -Frankie


I'll Take an email at [email protected]. If you will please let me know when you get it sent so I can edit this post.

Thanks, Luke


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Well it would seem that the gap is a smidge wider for the D2 motor. I spoke with our build guy and he said if I tried to go with a D2 coil in the D4 motor it would definitely rub. Otherwise I'm going to have our engineer LMS each driver individually to ensure absolute accuracy for the end user... It may take a little more time but I believe if anyone can appreciate this service, you guys can. As for the making each driver in this run a bit more unique, I just got a satin silver finish decal sample that'd look great around the pole vent. I'm going to have my graphics guy set up lettering so I'd like to get some ideas for the artwork.... lettering only of course and I'm going to make it black to be simple and elegant. I need a concensus as I'm running these off once ... So let's have some ideas! POLL starts now! Thanks again guys for all your input and continued support...

- Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Of course understand that all drivers are sine wave tested for full excursion in free air to check for any motor noise and/or rubbing. 


- Frankie


----------



## RNBRAD

That would be pretty cool. Whatever you guys come up with I'm game.


----------



## RNBRAD

Yea hold the unicorns and glitter on mine.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Well I figured something simple and clean would be appropriate.. I'd just like to somehow appease most if not all of those interested in this very limited run. And I have some simple ideas say for example... IDQ12D4 version 2 on top and 
20 YRS Special Edition below or something like that... 
Maybe Throw DIYMA in there somewhere.... thoughts?
-Frankie


----------



## RNBRAD

That would be perfect!!!


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

The matte silver look vinyl sample I got looks very nice too, not shiny or overstated... Works with the cosmetic of the driver...


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

I figure that with a standard black lettering would look kind nice... 
Peanut Gallery?

- Frankie


----------



## xxWarderxx

Sounds perfect.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

OK before I approve any concept for the pole vent decal ill post the proposal and let you guys vote on a few different designs .... 

Frankie


----------



## LovesMusic

Any progress with the designs Frankie?


----------



## thomasluke

Count me out on the subs. Some things have come....


----------



## Tnutt19

any new details on the max15? Is April still looking like a realistic release date? ANy new idea of doing a Diyma group buy? Any test results available?
Thanks


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hey guys sorry I haven't been on lately, I'm really getting a lot of stuff heaped on me. As for the designs the shallow is slowly improving. The Max 15 iteration in dual two coil is approved. I can send you guys T/S specs if you'd like. As for the group buy thing, I don't know what i can personally do for you all. I'm just the tech guy and of course no one listens to my opinion. See the attached T/S parameters in XLS format. I hope you enjoy. 
I'm a bit behind schedule on the v2 build and I sincerely appreciate everyone's patience in the matter.

All the best - Frankie


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hmmm it doesn't seem like its attached! LOL lemme try again... it says invalid file. So if anyone wants them, let me know your email address and I'll gladly send it your way. 

- Frankie


----------



## fish

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Hmmm it doesn't seem like its attached! LOL lemme try again... it says invalid file. So if anyone wants them, let me know your email address and I'll gladly send it your way.
> 
> - Frankie



Are you referring to the Max15 T/S parameters?


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Yes Fish if you'd like them before we get them out on the site let me know, send me an email addy and I'll send you and attachment.... 

Best regards,

Frankie


----------



## 04silverz

Frankie
Thanks for the specs.


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Sorry guys I have been stupid busy with other projects... AS for the rebuild it is going on albeit slower than I expected... I'm being assigned other testing tasks right now and rest assured those woofers will see the light of day and no one will be passed over who asked first. I am going to keep you all informed as new developments emerge....

- Frankie


----------



## RNBRAD

No biggy, my closet shelf has other subs to keep it company till the ID arrives.


----------



## Golden Ear

Frankie, please add me to the queue for a v2 20th anniversary. I've read so much about these and would love to own one. Thanx!


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

figured Id bring this up top for everyone


----------



## papasin

Checking back on any updates?


----------



## Hertz5400LincolnLS

papasin said:


> Checking back on any updates?


Seems like we got out hopes up for nothing :-( 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


----------



## JoeHemi57

Read this whole thread today on and off starting this morning. I love ID stuff, the Max12 i had was definitely the best sub that i ever installed and i have had some nice stuff. I also had a Flatline and ARC 15 at one point which were both great too. The ARC series stuff that ID built are/were great subs that didn't get a lot of attention. It was like a beefier IDQv2. 

I'm interested in either an IDMAX 8 or IDQ 8" sub or 10" Slim Q if they ever come out. Small footprint amps also if the price and specs are right.


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

Guessing this project is dead in water


----------



## Golden Ear

He hasn't posted in 3 weeks but my hopes are still up. Would love one of those subs!


----------



## DonH

JoeHemi57 said:


> Read this whole thread today on and off starting this morning. I love ID stuff, the Max12 i had was definitely the best sub that i ever installed and i have had some nice stuff. I also had a Flatline and ARC 15 at one point which were both great too. The ARC series stuff that ID built are/were great subs that didn't get a lot of attention. It was like a beefier IDQv2.
> 
> I'm interested in either an *IDMAX 8 or IDQ 8" sub or 10" Slim Q* if they ever come out. Small footprint amps also if the price and specs are right.


Im sure Image will soon have these lined up  in due time. Image is slowly seeing the light on releasing new products like they should have done 5 years ago.  have patience 

as far as those loosing their patience, Frankie is swamped im sure with tech calls that most likely last a really long time. lets all face it we love to talk about our hobbies with others.


----------



## rexroadj

Talked with Frankie before! He's good people! 
I'll say this though, they better get there head out of there ass (like old ID) and focus on some legit marketing and branding throughout the WHOLE country unless they like missing out on lucrative markets? 
So many companies with great products and the business/marketing sense of a brick! So many companies lost this way......ID changing hands is just one of them....hope the new see things better and address what there strengths and weakness's are and adjust accordingly!


----------



## Horsemanwill

rexroadj said:


> Talked with Frankie before! He's good people!
> I'll say this though, they better get there head out of there ass (like old ID) and focus on some legit marketing and branding throughout the WHOLE country unless they like missing out on lucrative markets?
> So many companies with great products and the business/marketing sense of a brick! So many companies lost this way......ID changing hands is just one of them....hope the new see things better and address what there strengths and weakness's are and adjust accordingly!


whoaaa hold on there. Eric never had his head anywhere near his ass. and he did have good marketing and branding. WORLD WIDE! he has a lot of business overseas as well as in the U.S. ID changing hands is a whole different story.

are you sure you have your facts right?


----------



## rexroadj

I am absolutely sure! Lets not get this mistaken about the greatness of the products or people involved.......do not mix that with business/marketing. 

I can think of a few regions, large ones, that have never seen a ID product in this country! Thats completely unacceptable. One HUGE area being New England. Do you know that if you walk into about 85% of the shops around here and mention ID, they have no clue what it is? Is there some ignorance to be blamed on the area? Sure! Especially given the press in magazines and other (these are people that brag about the time at CES too.....its sad HOWEVER, there is no reason why some of said markets have never been addressed. They're not alone either so no need to get defensive....it is what it is, but the facts are there! I fear that the NEW ID will do the same thing too. Its sad and really simple to address.....And no, I would not consider ID to have a good European saturation either...but thats not as big a deal..... And also, never did I mention Eric! Last time I checked he wasnt the only one there! 
Again, disconnect your love for the people and products, they dont mesh with marketing/business. Thats all I'm referring too. Again, there is a long list of companies that can share the same token.......
Nothing more, nothing less....I have the a GREAT amount of respect for Matt, Eric and the boys that were there.... If you wish to converse about marketing etc and this topic I'd rather not muck up the thread but I'd be glad to give a LONG dissertation on the topic via pm or email. I'm not talking out my ass and everything has a simple reason and solution that can be pointed out with ease. No insult to the originators of ID.....Much love!


----------



## minbari

I have to kinda agree with rex on this. there was only one store in all of missouri that carried ID when I moved here and now they dont carry them either. When I asked why, the owner said that people dont know what it is and dont want to pay for it.

The products are excellent, but not alot of people know about it. only reason I went with it is because I wanted to try out horns and they were the only company I knew about (at the time)


----------



## rexroadj

minbari said:


> I have to kinda agree with rex on this. there was only one store in all of missouri that carried ID when I moved here and now they dont carry them either. When I asked why, the owner said that people dont know what it is and dont want to pay for it.
> 
> The products are excellent, but not alot of people know about it. only reason I went with it is because I wanted to try out horns and they were the only company I knew about (at the time)


In red is Absolutely on the shop and owner! I get this a lot...brand recognition...and yes, advertising needs to be addressed by most all companies for sure......not always requires a ton of money either, but requires time and a plan, usually back burner....... 
I always hear dealers say "to bad, its a great great product but no one knows what it is and there not going to walk through the door because of sticker X on the window. The real fact of the matter is a lot of shops and the dealers are super lazy/ignorant. Again, not knowing and addressing the strong points! A lot of them were/are great installers and progressed into dealers. That doesnt qualify them as business men. Just as a lot of audio companies start from great engineers....again, does not qualify them as quality business/marketing people. Address your weakness's and adjust! 

If the product is great in a shop, the seller should be able to sell it! The ID lines of subs in particular, goes great against JL lines...... I cant blame ID if the products show up in a shop and they cant/dont sell or promote. If it wasnt such an ignorant field I would have started a consulting firm for shops to help with this (in case anyone is wondering, I do have sales/marketing/merchandising experience with one of the best and largest companies in the game.....Nike!) unfortunately the majority of them are just happy to blame everyone else rather then taking ownership of actually trying to sell something! Its very sad and frustrating.....


----------



## minbari

Well I can't complain too hard. I did get a pair of cd1emh and xs65 comps for $400, lol

Sent from my motorola electrify using digital farts


----------



## rexroadj

minbari said:


> Well I can't complain too hard. I did get a pair of cd1emh and xs65 comps for $400, lol
> 
> Sent from my motorola electrify using digital farts


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, thats awesome! 

And I hope for others reading...please do not misread.....HUGE fan of ID...and always have been.....Tremendous amount of respect for the originators as well!


----------



## DonH

guys no need to bring up old news of the old owner. thats the past just look closely at the future, it should be quite fun


----------



## rexroadj

DonH said:


> guys no need to bring up old news of the old owner. thats the past just look closely at the future, it should be quite fun


I was talking about the future too! Believe I said that? SO, whats your plan to get products to places they have not been yet? Please tell me that is a plan......


----------



## DonH

rexroadj said:


> I was talking about the future too! Believe I said that? SO, whats your plan to get products to places they have not been yet? Please tell me that is a plan......


great question, sadly that is not up to me. i can plant a seed and help cultivate but that is all. Stay tuned for images and testing once all parts are received to build these drivers


----------



## ImageDynamicsTech

Hey guys... SO sorry I've been out of the loop. They've been pulling me right and left lately with batch testing on tons of new products from My OTHER half (PB). That has drastically reduced my time to do much of anything other than obey. I am also slowly trying to assemble the v2s little by little. didn't mean to make promises, they are being built just taking forever since i've got tons of testing and tech to do. I will keep you guys posted when I'm nearing completion.

Best regards,

Frankie


----------



## Golden Ear

Good to hear from you Frankie! We're all rooting for you and ID. Hope to hear back from you soon on the V2s and all the other products you're working on.


----------



## DonH

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Hey guys... SO sorry I've been out of the loop. They've been pulling me right and left lately with batch testing on tons of new products from My OTHER half (PB). That has drastically reduced my time to do much of anything other than obey. I am also slowly trying to assemble the v2s little by little. didn't mean to make promises, they are being built just taking forever since i've got tons of testing and tech to do. I will keep you guys posted when I'm nearing completion.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Frankie


I have been watching :laugh:


----------



## loudnproud808

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> Hey Guys. This is Frankie the Tech Director at ID. We are still waiting on a finalized IDMax 15" but if you are interested, I will provide test data. We are currently waiting on a more supple surround and spider to be produced. Once we get it in about a week and change, we'll get updated T/S parameters and I'll be sure to get em to ya so you all can model away to your hearts content. It's gonna be a very impressive driver and it's similar to our other IDQs in it's actually a 16"... So no prefab for this bad boy. LOL. Otherwise we're kicking around the idea for a small format mid to incorporate to our existing component kits. Let me know what sizes you guys might like us to look into. Also I'm currently in the process of beta testing a prototype slim IDQ 10" which should be upon completion about 3.5" deep with a sealed back and..... RECONABLE! You guys are pivotal to our research so any suggestions from here on out... send me an email!
> 
> Best regards,
> Frankie - Image Dynamics Technical Director


Hey Frankie , long time ID fan here, good to see communication with us on the forums , i am extremely interested in IDs new products and the future of the company! 

I am interseted in the IDMAX15 and will be getting 1 asap..would like to hear as much info on it as possible !!!

I own a pair of XS65s and XS69s ,I LOVE THEM - HOWEVER--- THE BASKET NEEDS TO NOT BE PLASTIC, THEY BREAK TO EASILY!! So hopefully that can be fixed ,but i would be so happy if u guys made a new 3inch mid and also a 8 for the XS line ! i really want 8s in my doors i want more midbass ! i think being able to buy the 3 inch as a seperate and also including it in a 3 way set would be a great move, i personally want a 3 way XS comp set with a 8 

the slim IDQs sounds like a great idea with the closed back the possibilities would be endless , i am not interested in slim subs so far , but if it were a slim idq and it actually sounded good i would be


----------



## DonH

loudnproud808 said:


> Hey Frankie , long time ID fan here, good to see communication with us on the forums , i am extremely interested in IDs new products and the future of the company!
> 
> I am interseted in the IDMAX15 and will be getting 1 asap..would like to hear as much info on it as possible !!!
> 
> I own a pair of XS65s and XS69s ,I LOVE THEM - HOWEVER--- THE BASKET NEEDS TO NOT BE PLASTIC, THEY BREAK TO EASILY!! So hopefully that can be fixed ,but i would be so happy if u guys made a new 3inch mid and also a 8 for the XS line ! i really want 8s in my doors i want more midbass ! i think being able to buy the 3 inch as a seperate and also including it in a 3 way set would be a great move, i personally want a 3 way XS comp set with a 8
> 
> the slim IDQs sounds like a great idea with the closed back the possibilities would be endless , i am not interested in slim subs so far , but if it were a slim idq and it actually sounded good i would be


the plastic baskets will eventually be rid of over time. Prototyping for the slim line q's is still under way. as far as an 8, stay tuned on that  The 15 is close to a final production model also. 

ID is now on the right path again. New products are a MUST in our eyes and are trying our best at releasing the very best product for the price point. stay tuned in the next few months for v4's to start hitting ID dealers nationwide. 
-Don


----------



## tdp706

ImageDynamicsTech said:


> OK then how about some input for me concerning a 3 way kit? We're kicking the idea around and I'd personally like end user's feedback. Dome? Cone? 2.5", 3".... a la carte? Complete kit? Add on to existing kits? etc etc etc. Otherwise how about interest in slim IDQs? I'll post spy pics and results of my tests if anyone is intersted.... they should yield 2/3 of the performance of a standard IDQ. All with a bit over half of the mounting depth.... and Reconable... And at a bit over half of the cost of competing higher end offerings....
> Projected MSRP $349 -12"
> $299 - 10"
> $?? - 8" - Anyone?
> 
> BTW I try to get on more but they work me so hard doing everything here BESIDES tech, I promise to do my best to get on board more.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Frankie- ID Tech Director


I vote yes on a 3way kit. I have been holding out on changing my setup in two different vehicles in hopes of a 3way set from ID.


----------



## jtaudioacc

Installed an IDQ10v4 in a Mr Marv box couple weeks ago and it was great as usual.


----------



## papasin

^ Sweet!


----------



## ecbmxer

Is that new IDQ a slim version? Looks like a fairly slim box there. I would love to see some slim IDQ subs with the same output as the full depth ones!


----------



## jtaudioacc

ecbmxer said:


> Is that new IDQ a slim version? Looks like a fairly slim box there. I would love to see some slim IDQ subs with the same output as the full depth ones!


standard IDQ10v4


----------



## slowride

ecbmxer said:


> Is that new IDQ a slim version? Looks like a fairly slim box there. I would love to see some slim IDQ subs with the same output as the full depth ones!


Looks like a double cab Tacoma box. I had Marv build one for me a few years ago. He has a really cool technique to countersink the rear of the box where the magnet was. Fit like a glove.


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

TTT for subs never happened

Id settle for idmax 8 as replacement Frankie


----------



## loudnproud808

ChevyHHRSS400 said:


> TTT for subs never happened
> 
> Id settle for idmax 8 as replacement Frankie


what do you mean that there will be no IDQ slim subs and that there will be an IDMAX8 ?


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

Nope more like no one off last of best idq run....


----------



## DonH

jtaudioacc said:


> Installed an IDQ10v4 in a Mr Marv box couple weeks ago and it was great as usual.


Looks Great in there  

Its almost as sexy as the guy who built the woofer... :laugh:


----------



## DonH

v4 max's and q's are rolling into production guys. stay tuned!


----------



## 04silverz

Damn! Wonder what the maxes are gonna be selling for? In need (want) of a new se tup. Only the 15 for now or all size idmax?


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

What about the special run of idq that this thread was really about?


----------



## Tnutt19

ChevyHHRSS400 said:


> What about the special run of idq that this thread was really about?


This thread was about their V4 subs, I am confident that a lot of people are just as interested in the max 15


----------



## ChevyHHRSS400

Id max 8 would be nice

But several pages are about the custom run of the best idq made brought back to life was simply my point


----------



## papasin

ChevyHHRSS400 said:


> But several pages are about the custom run of the best idq made brought back to life was simply my point


Agree, post #87 was where it was started, and did go on for several pages. I'm curious as well...



ImageDynamicsTech said:


> We have a stock of IDQ 12 v.2 d4 softparts and motor/frames new. He tells me that we could build roughly 20-30 NEW drivers... If so I'm considering only offering them to you guys. Granted it would be at a lower price since there aren't ways to warranty them (But we will test them thoroughly of course). Any interest? Again only 12" v.2 D4 would be available... I'm probably thinking of grabbing 6 for myself.... LOL.
> 
> Lemme know guys...


----------



## Mathematics2

Any idea on the timeframe for online retailers to get the v4's? I am itching for that idmax 15...and no local dealers.


----------



## jtaudioacc

DonH said:


> v4 max's and q's are rolling into production guys. stay tuned!


say what?


----------



## DonH

jtaudioacc said:


> say what?




nice to meet you JT, Hoping we meet alot more in the future  

as far as the v2's go guys, you would have to discuss that with Frankie.


----------



## loudnproud808

wheres sum pics of the 15 !  :drummer::rockon::gossip::smash::burnout:oke::snacks::biggrinflip::rimshot:o::cwm23::argue::inout::anxious::freak::cwm8:epper::bowdown::faint::z::thumbsup:


----------



## DonH

you want pics of the 15 huh? I will ask to see if we can get a few up on our facebook page


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> you want pics of the 15 huh? I will ask to see if we can get a few up on our facebook page


Oh yea that rite u guys do have a pic on the facebook i saw it a couple weeks ago , F*CK I WANT 1 !!!


----------



## DonH

loudnproud808 said:


> Oh yea that rite u guys do have a pic on the facebook i saw it a couple weeks ago , F*CK I WANT 1 !!!


it does not do it justice honestly, it has one of the largest spiders, 11" in diameter. Nice hefty coil and a beefy motor. its really a 16" driver actually


----------



## 04silverz

Any updates for a release date? For either 12s or 15s


----------



## DonH

04silverz said:


> Any updates for a release date? For either 12s or 15s


q 10's, and 12's are shipping and being built. about 100 of each impedance in the 10" and 12" v4 max's have been built. all the parts where received last week for the 15 and production is under way currently. took a good few days to get the hang of the fastest/best way possible, build the jig's etc. for max 15 production But we are up and running. The SPider measures 9.75" of useable roll, but is 10.5" in total diameter due to our mounting style. This driver will be changed up in the future through time to make it the best possible through consumer feedback. teaser pic?


----------



## Tnutt19

I have to ask since the original post was edited and the details are not on the website.
What size Voice Coil is used in the Max15 now?


----------



## DonH

~2.6"


----------



## ecbmxer

Are there any changes to the airspace requirements for the V4 subs?


----------



## Tnutt19

DonH said:


> ~2.6"


Do you mind me asking why a 2.6" coil was chosen instead of a 3"?


----------



## DonH

Tnutt19 said:


> Do you mind me asking why a 2.6" coil was chosen instead of a 3"?


Honestly, i can only guess why. Our head engineer designed it not me. if it was my driver i would have done different things but it slams quite nicely  its a very nice coil, just like its little brothers have (12, 10)


----------



## sinister-kustoms

DonH said:


>


To quote Freddy - 'Fat bottomed girls, you make the rockin' world go round!'. Them some sexy butts!


----------



## sinister-kustoms

So are the v4 Max's still suitable for IB?


----------



## quality_sound

Tnutt19 said:


> Do you mind me asking why a 2.6" coil was chosen instead of a 3"?


Cost and moving mass would be my guesses.


----------



## cajunner

so any repairs go back to the manufacturer and gray market bought then blown subs can make the company twice the money


that's pessimistic, but the difference between a standard 2.5" coil that reconers will stock and the 2.6" is minimal in heat dissipation or weight considerations and means there will be proprietary parts. Proprietary parts may be used to control counterfeiting, or third party reconditioning outfits from repairing them.

There's a lot of good reasons a company would want to retain total control of the repair and warranty work on their products.


----------



## rc10mike

To me, flat black basket seems like a cheap and easy way out..it looks ok I guess..

Doesnt compare to my chrome IDMAX V3 12's..


----------



## subwoofery

quality_sound said:


> Cost and moving mass would be my guesses.


If I remember correctly, Matt told me that IDmax had a longer coil for heat dissipation so it did not need to be wider/bigger... Inductance is also the reason for a smaller coil. 

Kelvin


----------



## hurrication

cajunner said:


> so any repairs go back to the manufacturer and gray market bought then blown subs can make the company twice the money
> 
> 
> that's pessimistic, but the difference between a standard 2.5" coil that reconers will stock and the 2.6" is minimal in heat dissipation or weight considerations and means there will be proprietary parts. Proprietary parts may be used to control counterfeiting, or third party reconditioning outfits from repairing them.
> 
> There's a lot of good reasons a company would want to retain total control of the repair and warranty work on their products.


We don't know if that's ID, OD, pole OD, etc... For what it's worth - A lot of the Rockford, Kicker, and Alpine 2.5" coils have a 2.58" ID and are close to 2.75" OD. A savvy speaker builder will also be able to pop the motor apart and do any machining necessary to the pole or top plate to fit things as needed. 

Or if they really are an oddball oversized-2.5" coil and the demand ever presents itself, reconers can get batches of new drop in coils wound in bulk. Kicker used to cram a 2.38" voice coil in some of their subs, but the reconers now stock that size. Guys even have coils now to fit the 10 & 13 W7's along with other oddball JL coil sizes.

I'm happy to see the IDMAX evolve away from the 2" voice coil. There weren't any trick cooling features in the v2 and v3 motors and it really baffled me how they were rated at 1000w rms. Although, I see a lot of blown v2's and v3's floating around and the SPL-oriented reconers don't mess with anything less than 3" so that usually means people will practically give away v2 and v3 motors.


----------



## cajunner

hurrication said:


> We don't know if that's ID, OD, pole OD, etc... For what it's worth - A lot of the Rockford, Kicker, and Alpine 2.5" coils have a 2.58" ID and are close to 2.75" OD. A savvy speaker builder will also be able to pop the motor apart and do any machining necessary to the pole or top plate to fit things as needed.
> 
> Or if they really are an oddball oversized-2.5" coil and the demand ever presents itself, reconers can get batches of new drop in coils wound in bulk. Kicker used to cram a 2.38" voice coil in some of their subs, but the reconers now stock that size. Guys even have coils now to fit the 10 & 13 W7's along with other oddball JL coil sizes.
> 
> I'm happy to see the IDMAX evolve away from the 2" voice coil. There weren't any trick cooling features in the v2 and v3 motors and it really baffled me how they were rated at 1000w rms. Although, I see a lot of blown v2's and v3's floating around and the SPL-oriented reconers don't mess with anything less than 3" so that usually means people will practically give away v2 and v3 motors.


I don't recommend removing metal from either the top plate or the pole piece to be able to "fit" a 2.5" coil in a 2.6" space..



but you do what you gotta do, if it means turning something blown into something that plays for low money outlay.

I've got a mentality that says "I don't really care if it's off-spec, if it can still be used" and a bunch of old motors and frames just sitting around.

it bugs me when I see guys who get a little smudge on their cone, decide to swap it out with a flawless piece and then make a youToob where they plug the woofer into the wall and watch it die.


----------



## hurrication

If the builder truly understands subwoofer motors, then it is entirely possible for them to modify gaps and do machine work to yield a great performing sub which will not vary much from the original if intended. I wouldn't want some regular ol' guy who knows how to run a lathe do it, though, or even some of the parts swapping SPL recone guys.


----------



## DonH

cajunner said:


> so any repairs go back to the manufacturer and gray market bought then blown subs can make the company twice the money
> 
> 
> that's pessimistic, but the difference between a standard 2.5" coil that reconers will stock and the 2.6" is minimal in heat dissipation or weight considerations and means there will be proprietary parts. Proprietary parts may be used to control counterfeiting, or third party reconditioning outfits from repairing them.
> 
> There's a lot of good reasons a company would want to retain total control of the repair and warranty work on their products.


Correct. Spot On. Many people would have a hard time fitting a coil into the motor. very tight gap, like all our other drivers.



rc10mike said:


> To me, flat black basket seems like a cheap and easy way out..it looks ok I guess..
> 
> Doesnt compare to my chrome IDMAX V3 12's..


Flat black was chosen over a slew of different colors. We all love it, for one reason. Its Simplicity. 



subwoofery said:


> If I remember correctly, Matt told me that IDmax had a longer coil for heat dissipation so it did not need to be wider/bigger... Inductance is also the reason for a smaller coil.
> 
> Kelvin


Correct 



hurrication said:


> If the builder truly understands subwoofer motors, then it is entirely possible for them to modify gaps and do machine work to yield a great performing sub which will not vary much from the original if intended. I wouldn't want some regular ol' guy who knows how to run a lathe do it, though, or even some of the parts swapping SPL recone guys.


Doing so would be one hell of a time. removing the top plate from the ferrite would be a chore, but possible. You could possibly chip the ferrite. If you did so, some computer modeling would be needed in FAE to ensure proper gauss measurements in the gap to even think about building the subwoofer. Small changes on a speaker can result in huge diferences once built and tested.


----------



## rich20730

Looks like the 15's are available from Sonic: Image Dynamics IDMAX15 D2 V.4 (idmax15d2v4) 15" Dual 2 ohm ID MAX


----------



## 04silverz

Interestimg since Don said they just got parts last week. Wonder if they're selling what they don't have


----------



## cajunner

once you get the parts, you put your build crew into gear...


----------



## 04silverz

Talking about sonic not ID


----------



## cajunner

maybe sonic's getting in a special pre-shipment bunch of 'em to get the word out. They can churn out a couple dozen in a morning.

that would be the word-of-mouth strategy, a couple of nice glowing reviews in the PASmag and car audio review, would get their party started.


----------



## rexroadj

I do have to say....the thought of a 15" ID Max sounds awesome! Really makes me contemplate taking out the spare tire and using that massive well in the rover. Would rather an ID Max 8" or two and just replace the stock sub area though.....
But one of these days I may have to bite on the 15" I always loved the Max's


----------



## req

i was waiting on the max15 or the new q15 for years.

too bad i bought new subs *shrug*


----------



## 04silverz

cajunner said:


> maybe sonic's getting in a special pre-shipment bunch of 'em to get the word out. They can churn out a couple dozen in a morning.
> 
> that would be the word-of-mouth strategy, a couple of nice glowing reviews in the PASmag and car audio review, would get their party started.


Seems like a stretch



req said:


> i was waiting on the max15 or the new q15 for years.
> 
> too bad i bought new subs *shrug*


I'm debating on finally going with dayton ho or snagging new idmax
May just wait for max for my setup after daytons


----------



## DonH

cajunner said:


> once you get the parts, you put your build crew into gear...


precisely  Although it is Three of Us we can sure bang out some high quality speakers efficiently and quickly! One thing, those 15's are Quite studly to handle when building and flipping them....


----------



## Eggroll

Hate to sound like "that guy" but how would a single 15" max v4 compare to my 2 10" max v3. Would the 15 still have that nice tight sound, I know it will dig low


----------



## DonH

Eggroll said:


> Hate to sound like "that guy" but how would a single 15" max v4 compare to my 2 10" max v3. Would the 15 still have that nice tight sound, I know it will dig low


well considering the MAX15 is basically a 16, its cone area is roughly 188.71. the two max 10's cone area combined is roughly 156.45. So basing off of cone area the MAX15 takes it. Now you also have to consider motor force which the 10's win there..... it really would be tough to tell how it would compare as it could be a close match assuming the same power to the 15 was going to it as the same power split to the two 10's. If in the proper box the MAX15 will dig low, and sing very well, after all it is a MAX that we all know and love right? I am more impressed with its ported box capabilities But sealed it does quite well. 

-Don


----------



## Eggroll

DonH said:


> well considering the MAX15 is basically a 16, its cone area is roughly 188.71. the two max 10's cone area combined is roughly 156.45. So basing off of cone area the MAX15 takes it. Now you also have to consider motor force which the 10's win there..... it really would be tough to tell how it would compare as it could be a close match assuming the same power to the 15 was going to it as the same power split to the two 10's. If in the proper box the MAX15 will dig low, and sing very well, after all it is a MAX that we all know and love right? I am more impressed with its ported box capabilities But sealed it does quite well.
> 
> -Don


Thanks Don,

Yeah don't have the trunk for a ported box but def want to try it sealed


----------



## DonH

Eggroll said:


> Thanks Don,
> 
> Yeah don't have the trunk for a ported box but def want to try it sealed


I see you have a 2007 civic. If you are willing to give up the trunk, you could fit a box that is ported in it  I have done it before in a customers car. 4.3ft^3 to be exact for two 12's prior to working for image


----------



## Eggroll

DonH said:


> I see you have a 2007 civic. If you are willing to give up the trunk, you could fit a box that is ported in it  I have done it before in a customers car. 4.3ft^3 to be exact for two 12's prior to working for image


I had that almost exact box in my car before with Fosgate HX2's but got a flat and couldn't get the box out. So after that I decided to smaller, also I'm in outside sales so I tend to carry a few things. Trust me I wish I could go that route


----------



## 04silverz

DonH said:


> precisely  Although it is Three of Us we can sure bang out some high quality speakers efficiently and quickly! One thing, those 15's are Quite studly to handle when building and flipping them....


Right but what I was asking was in reference to sonic, not y'all. 
Is sonic advertising in stock when its not?


----------



## rexroadj

Why not ask sonic? They are on here after all. Maybe we could convince ID to allow Sonic to give us a special deal on ID stuff? Help get the "new ball" rolling? 
(in case direct caused a riff with Sonic/ID sales relationship)
I'd be interested myself. I was contemplating going the ID route before anyway.
Not gonna lie....its exciting to see the "Max" back and a 15" to boot!


----------



## Dubstep

Hell must have froze over! IDMax 15...... What have I been waiting...8 years or so.. Ill deff give it a try!


----------



## DonH

Get in contact with a local dealer or online dealer as all our v4 subs are ready to roll!!


----------



## Eggroll

DonH said:


> Get in contact with a local dealer or online dealer as all our v4 subs are ready to roll!!


Sweeeet!

But I can hear this come from the wifey when I tell her I want one. :argue::argue::argue::argue:


----------



## cajunner

DonH said:


> precisely  Although it is Three of Us we can sure bang out some high quality speakers efficiently and quickly! One thing, those 15's are Quite studly to handle when building and flipping them....


a three card monty, eh?

I'd have thought the assembly force at Image was at least half a dozen strong, where do you guys assemble these things, in a storage space...


just kidding, sheesh..


----------



## DonH

cajunner said:


> a three card monty, eh?
> 
> I'd have thought the assembly force at Image was at least half a dozen strong, where do you guys assemble these things, in a storage space...
> 
> 
> just kidding, sheesh..



HAHAHA!  Sadly, the last few years have been sow for Image, BUT we are now in the right direction


----------



## 04silverz

rexroadj said:


> Why not ask sonic? They are on here after all. Maybe we could convince ID to allow Sonic to give us a special deal on ID stuff? Help get the "new ball" rolling?
> (in case direct caused a riff with Sonic/ID sales relationship)
> I'd be interested myself. I was contemplating going the ID route before anyway.
> Not gonna lie....its exciting to see the "Max" back and a 15" to boot!


I stuck up for se on a threadnon here a while back. Did it solely bc they were getting slammed by someone and wantednto put my .02 in
Supposed prez pm me saying he was gonna give me a discount on whatever i wanted. Neverresponded to my pm back so f em


----------



## mikechec9

I got the check on great ported and quite well sealed. Did I miss the response to the IB question?


----------



## DonH

mikechec9 said:


> I got the check on great ported and quite well sealed. Did I miss the response to the IB question?


for which drivers?


----------



## mikechec9

Thanks for the PM. Couldn't fit the 15s behind the seats anyway. Would either have to be two 12" or three 10". Good to hear they'll work.


----------



## sinister-kustoms

mikechec9 said:


> Did I miss the response to the IB question?


I'm still waiting!


----------



## DonH

The IDMAX10" and 12" are suitable for a solid IB setup and will have that beautiful sound we all know and love that the driver produces.


----------



## Earzbleed

They haven't been tested under Australian conditions yet. Send me one and I'll test it free of charge, because I'm a nice bloke. Testing should only take 18 months or so.


----------



## sinister-kustoms

^^Haha! Same goes here for New Zealand. You won't even have to pay me for my time!:laugh:

So what about the 15 in IB??


----------



## mikechec9

sinister-kustoms said:


> So what about the 15 in IB??


...apparently not so much.


----------



## todj

Will Image Dynamics still offer recones for the V3 subs?


----------



## sinister-kustoms

mikechec9 said:


> ...apparently not so much.


That's not what I wanted to hear


----------



## DonH

The v4 softparts will drop right into the v3 basket and motor.


----------



## DonH

I will get some more insight on the 15" in IB applications from other opinions today and report back with my findings


----------



## DonH

After small conversations and looking at the complete t/s parameters of the MAX15 both the d2 and d4 will be suitable for an IB install. The stiffer suspension with high excursion helps as well.


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> After small conversations and looking at the complete t/s parameters of the MAX15 both the d2 and d4 will be suitable for an IB install. The stiffer suspension with high excursion helps as well.


Hey so i went on the ID website and found that 

IDMAX10&12 39mm xmax
IDMAX15 44mm xmax

^ i have a max12v3 and its xmax is like 24mm , are these new v4s that much improved ??

however-

IDMAX12v3- sens 93.2db
IDMAX12v4- sens 85.5db ???

so maybe im missing something , but am i to believe that these are not the super efficient subwoofers i am used to , or maybe with a more output trade off ? 

if the cone of a v4 can drop right in a v3 to recone it then the cone is the same ? and VC , but is the spider larger on the v4s ?

AND- one final question - 
First off i am no pro , but- if i llok at the response curve graphs of say the IDMAX12v3 vs V4 - the V4 seems to like 40hrz freqs where as the V3 likes its 30hrz , and also after 30 the V4 seems to drop down hill quickly , vs the V3 seems to stay pretty steady to 10 hrz.... ?

I had always for the past 10 years been so into where the speaker would say freq range - and a mtx9500 would be like 25-125hrz , and rockford t2 would be like 23-150hrz , and my trusty IDMAXv3 5-120hrz !!!!
^ so i was always under the impression it was like the deepest i had known of , at the time i was less educated BUT- to my experience my IDMAX is much deeper than my friends rockford t2s, alpine type xs, kicker solo l7s etc. the w7 does a good job of digging very low like my max..

SO- am i to believe THAT - my idmax is going to sound like a alpine type x and not be as deep as i am used to ? AND with this "extra xmax? " is it louder ? 

i have a feeling that i may be missing something but please elaborate on this

added xmax and extra output ? 

Loss of efficiency ? :worried: but as long as i got my extra output !? 

BUT extra output for a loss of extremely deep bass ? i might as well go get a DD9500  jus kidding 


i very much want a IDMAX15v4 and i will buy one very shorty ( especially cuz i got a new car with a rockford 12hx2 and i hate it )
^ i see the 15 goes in a ported box and tuned to 27, so that seems just right , just confused on everything else !

crazy long post but , thanks in advance ! :thumbsup:


----------



## todj

To me it seems like the new IDMAX will be more reliable and will take closer to it's rated power. It does this with a weaker motor and heavier soft parts. To me I don't see how it could get louder or better off the same power. With more power it very well may get louder. I don't know about sq though.


----------



## ZAKOH

loudnproud808 said:


> Hey so i went on the ID website and found that
> 
> IDMAX10&12 39mm xmax
> IDMAX15 44mm xmax
> 
> ^ i have a max12v3 and its xmax is like 24mm , are these new v4s that much improved ??
> 
> however-
> 
> IDMAX12v3- sens 93.2db
> IDMAX12v4- sens 85.5db ???


Huge discrepancy. Almost certainly the sensitivity was measured differently, so you're basically comparing apples to oranges. Most likely, the 93.2dB number is SPL at 2.83V/1meter, with subwoofer possibly wired for 2ohm. So it's seeing like 4watts of power. The second rating is at 1watt/1meter. For the later 85-86dB is entirely expected and pretty much a midpack number. There is no way they got 93.2dB at 1watt/1meter. When I see +90dB rating, it's pretty much always because they used a different measure.


----------



## DonH

ZAKOH said:


> Huge discrepancy. Almost certainly the sensitivity was measured differently, so you're basically comparing apples to oranges. Most likely, the 93.2dB number is SPL at 2.83V/1meter, with subwoofer possibly wired for 2ohm. So it's seeing like 4watts of power. The second rating is at 1watt/1meter. For the later 85-86dB is entirely expected and pretty much a midpack number. There is no way they got 93.2dB at 1watt/1meter. When I see +90dB rating, it's pretty much always because they used a different measure.


I cant comment as to how the v3's specifications where measured as i did not work for the company at that time. I do know that some "tweaking" to the v3 t/s parameters where done to make it look like a much better driver on paper but that is a thing of the past. The specifications posted now are True 100%. each was tested by our engineer multiple times to get the average.

also the v4 soft parts drop right into the v3. it is the same motor and basket! the soft parts are what is different. the whole v4 assembly is a much stronger assembly, primarily the triple joint. compared to the old "radiator ring" the new triple joint is not solely dependent on the CA Glue and dust cap to keep it in tact like the v3.


----------



## Horsemanwill

:lurk:

hmmmmmmmmmm





DonH said:


> I cant comment as to how the v3's specifications where measured as i did not work for the company at that time. I do know that some "tweaking" to the v3 t/s parameters where done to make it look like a much better driver on paper but that is a thing of the past. The specifications posted now are True 100%. each was tested by our engineer multiple times to get the average.
> 
> also the v4 soft parts drop right into the v3. it is the same motor and basket! the soft parts are what is different. the whole v4 assembly is a much stronger assembly, primarily the triple joint. compared to the old "radiator ring" the new triple joint is not solely dependent on the CA Glue and dust cap to keep it in tact like the v3.


----------



## Eric Stevens

DonH said:


> I cant comment as to how the v3's specifications where measured as i did not work for the company at that time. I do know that some "tweaking" to the v3 t/s parameters where done to make it look like a much better driver on paper but that is a thing of the past. The specifications posted now are True 100%. each was tested by our engineer multiple times to get the average.
> 
> also the v4 soft parts drop right into the v3. it is the same motor and basket! the soft parts are what is different. the whole v4 assembly is a much stronger assembly, primarily the triple joint. compared to the old "radiator ring" the new triple joint is not solely dependent on the CA Glue and dust cap to keep it in tact like the v3.


Don,
Not too sure where you are getting your fictional information, i can tell you this, your statement is flase and without merit. The moment you call me out on something such as this, where you are wrong, you have opened something you are not capable of closing.

No tweaking nor adjusting of the parameters was made to the V.3 IDQ or IDMAX. The published parameters for these drivers was based upon carefully measured impedance curves and measured MMD. The parameters will vary from driver to driver given the accepted tolerance of the parts. Normally the FS/Qts ratio will stay the same with Qts rising as FS gets higher. 

T/S parameters are calculated based off of a properly measured impedance curve. If errors are made, or introduced due to improper, or poor, testing procedures the T/S parameters will vary wildly. 

The Bl of those V.3 subwoofers was calculated using FEA to calculate the Bn for over the length of the coil and that combined with length of wire used for the voice coil you can using simple math get the B=(Magnetic Flux) L=(wire length) in Tm=(tesla meters) or BL in Tm this with known MMD and Sd, Fo and well you can calculate all the parameters. 

I have a feeling the problem is in the testing as the stated DC resistance for all the V.4 subwoofers is incorrect. Kind of embarrassing IMHO.

With a dual voice subwoofer you have two voice coils and the DC resistance of the speaker will be one of two numbers depending on if the coils are connected in series or in parallel. The DC resistance listed on the parameter sheets is for a single voice coil as they are the same DC resistance from when I designed them. 

True 100% I would say not based on my quick review of the V.4 specifications.

Eric Stevens


----------



## Eric Stevens

loudnproud808 said:


> Hey so i went on the ID website and found that
> 
> IDMAX10&12 39mm xmax
> IDMAX15 44mm xmax
> 
> ^ i have a max12v3 and its xmax is like 24mm , are these new v4s that much improved ??


I will provide some unsolicitied assistance here. The new numbers are a peak to peak number not one way. The xmax number on the V.3 was one way at 70% of at rest BL no the V.4 is not improved with almost double the XMAX.


Eric Stevens


----------



## Diezel10

Oops.


----------



## Eric Stevens

ZAKOH said:


> Huge discrepancy. Almost certainly the sensitivity was measured differently, so you're basically comparing apples to oranges. Most likely, the 93.2dB number is SPL at 2.83V/1meter, with subwoofer possibly wired for 2ohm. So it's seeing like 4watts of power. The second rating is at 1watt/1meter. For the later 85-86dB is entirely expected and pretty much a midpack number. There is no way they got 93.2dB at 1watt/1meter. When I see +90dB rating, it's pretty much always because they used a different measure.


Understanding parameters requires that you read the notes so that you can put the numbers in proper relation. So as you say 2.83 volts can mean as much as 4 watts to a D4 driver if the coils are in parallel. Well you can also test the SPL at 1 watt / 1 meter in different ways that are more relative to the way the speaker will be used. Hence the rating was 88.1 SPLo/ 93.2 GP (ground plane).

SPLo is broad band efficiency and is calculated and not a measured parameter, it does somewhat match what you will measure with most speakers if you average the output from 100 to 1000 Hz. Almost useless without other information and an advanced understand of acoustics. On a driver that is going to be used below 100 Hz SPLo is not a good specification on which to base performance.

So the 93.2 was an attempt to give people a useful and meaningful number of how efficient the subvwoofer was in the intended frequency range. 93.2 was misunderstood and taken as SPLo rather than the 88.1 which was the SPLo 

Any further analysis or comment could be construed as negative or bashing.

Eric Stevens


----------



## schmiddr2

Actually you are doing just fine. Some well timed factual posts. I imagine it will help some people.


Matt was attempting to berate him and the company.


----------



## mikechec9




----------



## qwertydude

I do distinctly remember the IDmax specifying in the specs the efficiency being ground plane. I personally don't think it's tweaking the spec but generally I would like to see the specs on a more even field since I don't know any other subwoofers measured at ground plane. Or at least not ones willing to admit it. So plus one for ID but minus one also since it's a different spec than normally measured.


----------



## mikechec9

qwertydude said:


> I do distinctly remember the IDmax specifying in the specs the efficiency being ground plane. I personally don't think it's tweaking the spec but generally I would like to see the specs on a more even field since I don't know any other subwoofers measured at ground plane. Or at least not ones willing to admit it. So plus one for ID but minus one also since it's a different spec than normally measured.


...reminds me a bit of Adire's IEC268-5 power ratings.


----------



## loudnproud808

Eric Stevens said:


> I will provide some unsolicitied assistance here. The new numbers are a peak to peak number not one way. The xmax number on the V.3 was one way at 70% of at rest BL no the V.4 is not improved with almost double the XMAX.
> 
> 
> Eric Stevens


yes thanks for clearing that up , i had assumed that exactly. especially if the motor and VC and basket where the same and the cone looked nearly identical


----------



## loudnproud808

Eric Stevens said:


> Don,
> Not too sure where you are getting your fictional information, i can tell you this, your statement is flase and without merit. The moment you call me out on something such as this, where you are wrong, you have opened something you are not capable of closing.
> 
> No tweaking nor adjusting of the parameters was made to the V.3 IDQ or IDMAX. The published parameters for these drivers was based upon carefully measured impedance curves and measured MMD. The parameters will vary from driver to driver given the accepted tolerance of the parts. Normally the FS/Qts ratio will stay the same with Qts rising as FS gets higher.
> 
> T/S parameters are calculated based off of a properly measured impedance curve. If errors are made, or introduced due to improper, or poor, testing procedures the T/S parameters will vary wildly.
> 
> The Bl of those V.3 subwoofers was calculated using FEA to calculate the Bn for over the length of the coil and that combined with length of wire used for the voice coil you can using simple math get the B=(Magnetic Flux) L=(wire length) in Tm=(tesla meters) or BL in Tm this with known MMD and Sd, Fo and well you can calculate all the parameters.
> 
> I have a feeling the problem is in the testing as the stated *DC resistance for all the V.4 subwoofers is incorrect*. Kind of embarrassing IMHO.
> 
> *^ Eric im not tooo sure what u mean by this , however not sounding good , i do somewhat but not entirely understand. I love my MAX12v3 , its hard for me to find or risk spending $ on trying something new. IDMAX beats w6v2 w7 t2s type x DD etc , IMO(very much so). Here in Hawaii we have no sound shops that carry many of these other non-mainstream brands such as ID , a few have RE now wich i was happy untill i heard them, 5000watts to a XXX12 and my max12 is slightly louder while sounding 1mill times better :worried: not impressed, not 2 mention i have trunk space and no need for 0 gauge everywhere and 20 batteries
> Anyway - as much as i love my IDMAX and am attached to it , i still am always on the hunt for better( or maybe to prove to myself that it really is the best !)
> my dealer (only ID provider on Oahu) #1 is alumapro , but he says for my needs thats not the sub for me , his #2 is IDMAX ofcourse ! I have heard allot about things like SSA ICON , XCON and other brands and subs,
> ^ i thought i would try my luck on the IDMAX15 , as a single sub setup with more output and similar SQ to my MAX12v3... This DC resistance issue( if it is an issue ?)
> sorry for the mile long story, but i have been waiting for a MAX15 since i was 14years old or so , i love my MAX12v3 but i honestly crave a little more output, not for music purposes , really just to show off a little more when need be  thats what i want ! i would gladly wait till u come out with something Mr Stevens , i just feel like i gotta try this 15 tho , trust me i'll be sporting all the new ES gear , i still need some horns , and cant wait for u to come out with something superior to the XS65s.. I hope that if these new v4s are not an improvement , atleast sound similar enough to satisfy my needs SQ wise and that 15 will get me on the output.. or maybe i shud try a 15 XCON
> DAMN SORRY BOUT THE NOVEL GUYS !*
> 
> With a dual voice subwoofer you have two voice coils and the DC resistance of the speaker will be one of two numbers depending on if the coils are connected in series or in parallel. The DC resistance listed on the parameter sheets is for a single voice coil as they are the same DC resistance from when I designed them.
> 
> True 100% I would say not based on my quick review of the V.4 specifications.
> 
> Eric Stevens



AAAAAA


----------



## Eric Stevens

loudnproud808 said:


> AAAAAA


You have to decide whjat product you wish to purchase, based upon what makes you feel good.

I am saying the published parameters are incorrect for the V.4 and was pointing out the problem. I have not analyzed or offerred any opinions on the product and think that would not be politically correct.

You do have to consider if you think you can get trust worthy technical assistance when they cant even get the parameters correct. Then comes the question of how can they engineer a product if they cannot test it correctly.

Eric


----------



## DonH

Eric Stevens said:


> You have to decide whjat product you wish to purchase, based upon what makes you feel good.
> 
> I am saying the published parameters are incorrect for the V.4 and was pointing out the problem. I have not analyzed or offerred any opinions on the product and think that would not be politically correct.
> 
> You do have to consider if you think you can get trust worthy technical assistance when they cant even get the parameters correct. Then comes the question of how can they engineer a product if they cannot test it correctly.
> 
> Eric


Eric, i did not mean to sound like a complete buffoon, For that I apologize! I am a man and can admit when i am incorrect, and i was incorrect. Your lengthy explanations i have read and do understand them, with that in mind i will bring up re-testing of all the v4 sub-woofers asap as well as retest of v3 sub-woofers we have. 

I mean no disrespect to you or what you started, as im sure im not alone when i say this we love Image Dynamics.


----------



## loudnproud808

Eric Stevens said:


> You have to decide whjat product you wish to purchase, based upon what makes you feel good.
> 
> I am saying the published parameters are incorrect for the V.4 and was pointing out the problem. I have not analyzed or offerred any opinions on the product and think that would not be politically correct.
> 
> You do have to consider if you think you can get trust worthy technical assistance when they cant even get the parameters correct. Then comes the question of how can they engineer a product if they cannot test it correctly.
> 
> Eric


as i thought , thanks for the response, atleast u designed a sub that i cant seem to find a single thing better ( for my tastes ) and when u do release a new sub of your own i hope theres a 15 ! untill then i will have to try this max15 as i have a few other pics as far as a new sub goes, and as a single sub "perfect system" i have researched a few good options but land myself with the max15 as what i want. your Max12 has all my friends in awe , before it they didnt even kno what ID was , and now they know damn well. most people think i have 2 12s and 2000watts some 0 gauge ETC ,and have no clue how i hit notes that low with authority , while still being able to be quick and responsive, great SQ, and i did find it to be very,very efficient. Thanks for building the IDMAX in the first place , Its simply marvelous


----------



## RNBRAD

DonH said:


> I cant comment as to how the v3's specifications where measured as i did not work for the company at that time. I do know that some "tweaking" to the v3 t/s parameters where done to make it look like a much better driver on paper but that is a thing of the past. The specifications posted now are True 100%. each was tested by our engineer multiple times to get the average.
> 
> also the v4 soft parts drop right into the v3. it is the same motor and basket! the soft parts are what is different. the whole v4 assembly is a much stronger assembly, primarily the triple joint. compared to the old "radiator ring" the new triple joint is not solely dependent on the CA Glue and dust cap to keep it in tact like the v3.


Ok so I blew my V3 coil. How do I get the V4 soft parts? Can I order direct from ID or vendor? Any better power handling with the V4 soft parts, or just made stronger?


----------



## low4ever

Is there anyone that has heard the ID Max V4? Anyone that has recieved one? Just curious. Trying to decide which one to go with.


----------



## papasin

low4ever said:


> Is there anyone that has heard the ID Max V4? Anyone that has recieved one? Just curious. Trying to decide which one to go with.


Post 350 in this thread.


----------



## DonH

RNBRAD said:


> Ok so I blew my V3 coil. How do I get the V4 soft parts? Can I order direct from ID or vendor? Any better power handling with the V4 soft parts, or just made stronger?


v4 softparts can be purchased through woofersetc online dealer. He has some in stock in all impedance's im sure. IF you want to make it a complete v4, you can also buy the basket add on as well. 

-Don


----------



## schmiddr2

Like these I suppose: https://www.woofersetc.com/c-177-replacement-cones.aspx


----------



## RNBRAD

V4 cone and basket on its way!! Thanks!!


----------



## moparman79

My sales rep gave me a call this morning to tell me he has the IDMAX15 in and ready to ship. I might pick a few up next week.


----------



## DonH

customaudioman said:


> My sales rep gave me a call this morning to tell me he has the IDMAX15 in and ready to ship. I might pick a few up next week.


 sweet. lets us know how you like them!


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> sweet. lets us know how you like them!


^ yes i agree.

Don - a month or 2 ago i had looked at IDs website and it stated the same xmax as usual for the v3s and the v4s where the same something like 24mm for the 10s and 12s.

The 15v4 however was stated at i believe 27 or 28mm , so this would be increase in not only cone area but also xmax.
but then i look now and see the xmax is much more , assuming this is a peak to peak , but before the 15 said 27maybe 28mm . can you clarify on this ?


----------



## RNBRAD

Switched the 12.V3 over to the V4 basket and cone. Very easy to do I must say. Nice to be able to recone a sub in a few minutes. Seems like it has a tad more output. Not sure why and it's not even broke in. Very articulate, sounds identical to the V3 in every respect other than I had to drop my gains a tad. However weird it may seem, I did add a 1 farad Esoteric capacitor and thought the same thing with the V3 right after I added it. Capacitor definitely improved SQ all around. I think the cap benefit is seen probably due to the higher resistance of the accessory battery. It's a huge tractor battery for my air ride suspension and electronics. I don't think it has the low internal resistance of standard starting batteries. Then again I've never added a "quality" capacitor and not heard an audible difference on the subs. Anyway the V4 did not dissapoint. I just can't get over how good these subs sound and think they sound better than the epic V2.


----------



## slowride

RNBRAD said:


> Switched the 12.V3 over to the V4 basket and cone. Very easy to do I must say. Nice to be able to recone a sub in a few minutes. Seems like it has a tad more output. Not sure why and it's not even broke in. Very articulate, sounds identical to the V3 in every respect other than I had to drop my gains a tad. However weird it may seem, I did add a 1 farad Esoteric capacitor and thought the same thing with the V3 right after I added it. Capacitor definitely improved SQ all around. I think the cap benefit is seen probably due to the higher resistance of the accessory battery. It's a huge tractor battery for my air ride suspension and electronics. I don't think it has the low internal resistance of standard starting batteries. Then again I've never added a "quality" capacitor and not heard an audible difference on the subs. Anyway the V4 did not dissapoint. I just can't get over how good these subs sound and think they sound better than the epic V2.


How much was the cone replacement and basket? Did you purchase from woofersetc?


----------



## RNBRAD

itsmyturn said:


> How much was the cone replacement and basket? Did you purchase from woofersetc?


Yes, was $120.


----------



## DonH

RNBRAD said:


> Switched the 12.V3 over to the V4 basket and cone. Very easy to do I must say. Nice to be able to recone a sub in a few minutes. Seems like it has a tad more output. Not sure why and it's not even broke in. Very articulate, sounds identical to the V3 in every respect other than I had to drop my gains a tad. However weird it may seem, I did add a 1 farad Esoteric capacitor and thought the same thing with the V3 right after I added it. Capacitor definitely improved SQ all around. I think the cap benefit is seen probably due to the higher resistance of the accessory battery. It's a huge tractor battery for my air ride suspension and electronics. I don't think it has the low internal resistance of standard starting batteries. Then again I've never added a "quality" capacitor and not heard an audible difference on the subs. Anyway the V4 did not dissapoint. I just can't get over how good these subs sound and think they sound better than the epic V2.



awesome review! we would love to see some install pics also!


----------



## DonH

loudnproud808 said:


> ^ yes i agree.
> 
> Don - a month or 2 ago i had looked at IDs website and it stated the same xmax as usual for the v3s and the v4s where the same something like 24mm for the 10s and 12s.
> 
> The 15v4 however was stated at i believe 27 or 28mm , so this would be increase in not only cone area but also xmax.
> but then i look now and see the xmax is much more , assuming this is a peak to peak , but before the 15 said 27maybe 28mm . can you clarify on this ?


the 15" specs are peak to peak. The tech sheets where updated from that time as we got "excited" and started shipping the drivers without posting our updated tech sheets. Our engineer was responsible for all our updated tech sheets. 

hope i was helpful!
-Don


----------



## RNBRAD

Thanks Don, here's a few pics.

I guess it's really a V3.5. Here it is with the new stamped steel basket. This was an IDQ12 V3 to V4 conversion. 



Internal

Box just prior to install


Ski pass view


Trunk view


----------



## file audio

Im trying th get the best SQ sounding sounding 10"or12 inch sub available and I have found lots of good ipinions about image dyn. Idq/ idmax now im using q w6v2 in a HO box for the 10w7. I know i can get a better clean bass Im always searching learning. Maybe im going to buy a used idmax10 as my budget is arond 250. 300. I was considering the morel ultimo sc .. anybody can recomend a good sq sub? Please among 500 to 990 rms im using the jl audio hd750 righ now. I have had jl w0 w3v3 v2 w6 12v2 12 &10 12w7&10 cdt audio qes12. 12focal access. type R12.kicker Ls ****. Among others. .. but image dynamics are on my mind along this year.. Im I right?


----------



## loudnproud808

file audio said:


> Im trying th get the best SQ sounding sounding 10"or12 inch sub available and I have found lots of good ipinions about image dyn. Idq/ idmax now im using q w6v2 in a HO box for the 10w7. I know i can get a better clean bass Im always searching learning. Maybe im going to buy a used idmax10 as my budget is arond 250. 300. I was considering the morel ultimo sc .. anybody can recomend a good sq sub? Please among 500 to 990 rms im using the jl audio hd750 righ now. I have had jl w0 w3v3 v2 w6 12v2 12 &10 12w7&10 cdt audio qes12. 12focal access. type R12.kicker Ls ****. Among others. .. but image dynamics are on my mind along this year.. Im I right?



i prefer a IDMAX to a w6/w7 , and also the IDQ is also better IMO , but the IDMAX has the more around the output i require. 
however- i would rather have a fully sound proof ride with a w6 , than one without any sound proofing and a IDMAX.. Both of my IDMAXs sound like a piece of heaven , 1 for each of my cars , in a bow that suits you best , sealed or ported , box makes alllllll the difference and then ofcourse deadening your car will make your sub 1000 times better


----------



## rexroadj

Well not to derail a ID thread....and this is no disrespect to ID. As I am a HUGE ID fan and am happy to see something being done with the company. Lets address the biggest issue this guy has first. Honestly with the subs your talking about, in reality, they are all steps sideways. You openly admit that you do not have the W6 in an adequate box.......No sub is going to be the best it can be unless its in a proper enclosure built for the sub and circumstance. Rather then dump all sorts of money....do what you can with what you have! And yes....prepare your car too!

If that still doesnt tickle your grundle....then shop. And ID is a fantastic place to start!


----------



## BuickGN

rexroadj said:


> Well not to derail a ID thread....and this is no disrespect to ID. As I am a HUGE ID fan and am happy to see something being done with the company. Lets address the biggest issue this guy has first. Honestly with the subs your talking about, in reality, they are all steps sideways. You openly admit that you do not have the W6 in an adequate box.......No sub is going to be the best it can be unless its in a proper enclosure built for the sub and circumstance. Rather then dump all sorts of money....do what you can with what you have! And yes....prepare your car too!
> 
> If that still doesnt tickle your grundle....then shop. And ID is a fantastic place to start!



I agree. The W6 In my opinion sounds better than the Max but it needs airspace, the more the better to sound its best. I've had them in an undersized box and they were boomy and slow. In a larger box and eventually IB, they were just amazing. Also, there seems to be some confusion but in a sealed box and IB, the W7 will get louder and lets not forget the W7 is their top SQ sub. The W6 will have about the same output, maybe a little more than the IDQ and the W7 will get louder than the Max. Keep in mind the JL subs are dead ass reliable, none of the broken basket or coil rubbing issues.


----------



## lizardking

I think the W6 is still the best all around sub. V2 and V3. It's just an amazing sub.


----------



## file audio

So . Now that Im planning on purchase a 10 idmax ..10w6v2 uses claiming about. .I have 2 10w6v2 in my trunk one in a HO red eye box and other disconnected. ..so? Im looking for the cleanest sub outthere and starting to realize that not exist and all subs are boomy muddy... i like the way subs rattle but when for some reason i hear my krx3 focal without sub I enjoy them crystal clear and i know SQ is with less than 900rms


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## DonH

Yes this is a ID thread, but it is a thread talking about subwoofers, so how cna i not answer about the JL w6.... It is a great subwoofer indeed! In the proper Box they sound just great! Top the fellow curious about whether to run this or that, I cant just simply say this is better than that BUT what i can say is that you wont be dissapointed by running our v4 subwoofers


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## BuickGN

file audio said:


> So . Now that Im planning on purchase a 10 idmax ..10w6v2 uses claiming about. .I have 2 10w6v2 in my trunk one in a HO red eye box and other disconnected. ..so? Im looking for the cleanest sub outthere and starting to realize that not exist and all subs are boomy muddy... i like the way subs rattle but when for some reason i hear my krx3 focal without sub I enjoy them crystal clear and i know SQ is with less than 900rms


The W6 is extremely clean. Boomy and muddy is exactly what you get when you put any sub into too small of an enclosure. Give it some room to breathe and you will love it. It's a lot cheaper to build a larger enclosure than to buy a sub.


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## loudnproud808

comparing the w6,w7, and idq idmax i agree is like a step sideways , i dont believe that one is superior to the other , but being that they are both of the top of the top quality u will find what suits *you* best, as they are different . they both sound great , they both get very loud , reliable and look bad azz.. i simply prefer the sound of my IDMAX over any sub i have ever heard . my MAX12 in 2cubes tuned to 32hrz and also in another box at 2.5cubes @ 28hrz , i prefer it in either of those boxes over a 12w6v2 in a red eye box - Idmax has more output does the very deep bass much better , and does it with ease , where ass the w6v2 did not sound that great with the very very deep bass , the w6v2 was quick and accurate and nearly every other bass sounded great it also hit the high notes very well EXCEPT on high volume it would distort slightly with the higher freq. both these subs can be pushed to distortion like any other , the w6v2 would be able to play loud without disortion but when u really start pushing it it sounds awkward on the highs, where as my MAX could be pushed to the point of distortion and still sound good  seriously..

also a 10w7 in a red eye , for some reason bog out on the very deep bass when played loud . where as my MAX had no issue like this at any volume or freq..

ive went up against several 12w7s in red eye , and it would not bog out like the 10w7 for some reason , and sounded awesome , how ever i like the sound of my MAX better and also mines was a hairline louder . ofcourse all of this could be the fact of 2 different vehicles.. i have never had the chance to sample a w7 in my own car. i would love to. all JL systems i had gone up against had JL amps and top grade wiring , big 3 , yellow top ETC .. great systems, i prefer my IDMAX in output SQ and all areas of "SQ" the freq ranges and it hit it , but also jus the sound of it , to me the MAX sounds more natural, smoother, musical ,clear, accurate ETC. 

i would say the max is like a w6 and a w7 combined , take the speed and accuracy of the w6 and the low end output of the w7 and u got an IDMAX.

In my research the MAX is the ultimate sub compared mostly to - a w6v2/w7. if one cannot agree that the MAX is boss, they say JL is better, these 2 ID, and JL , get compared with each other more than any other in my knowledge. Most that take JL will come to conclusion that the W6v2(3) is better than the w7 as an overall sub , due to it having greater SQ, the w7 just has more output, particularly in the low end . that being said i take IDMAX over w6v2 in SQ and , clearly the MAX has it beat in output. correct me if im wrong..
As far as W7 output is nearly the same , but IMHO IDMAX has it beat in SQ and for me its allot cooler when people ask if i have 2 15s , and i say i only have 1 12 . they then ask if i have 3000 watts and a DD9500 and some zero gauge, i say no 1 12idmax 1200 watts and some 4 gauge , and they dont even kno what the hell Image Dynamics is, they are in awe of the output and SQ like had never heard before  

IDMAX all the way , JL certainly makes some kick a$$ subs too , but by all means if u have had 10 different JL subs , then why not try its arch nemesis and see what all the fuss is about , and sample the IDMAX


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## BuickGN

We need facts here. The 12W7 has the same cone area and 29mm xmax vs 19mm. That's a huge difference, in a sealed enclosure or IB the 12W7 has considerably more displacement than the Max12. Even the new 12W6 has the same excursion but a little less cone area. The Max in a sealed application is closer to the W6 in output than the W7. 

The W6 does not have better SQ than the W7. That myth is based on years of assumptions by people who have never heard both in the same setup and the assumption that if it has a lot of linear excursion it must be an SPL sub and many times its treated as such and put in a high tuned ported enclosure. The W7 is JL's top SQ sub. 

Sound quality is subjective but what is not subjective is the W6 and W7 are far quieter, nearly silent at high excursion. The IDMax motor noise will get outright loud when pushed hard especially in a setup like IB or reverse mounting where motor noise can be heard. The Max does sound strained when pushed hard while the W7 never loses composure, it seems bottomless. The Max and W7 aren't in the same league, the W6 is more on its level. 

It has had quality issues as has the IDQ while the W6 has had none and the W7 has none other than the little cosmetic indent in the center of the cone when pushed hard for long periods of time. We're talking baskets breaking, magnet misalignment, not small defects. 

Everything said such as "bogging out" points to enclosure or amp or install problems. Lets try to somewhat keep this factual.


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## tyroneshoes

Ok, so I had some listening on the idq 10" v4 

It is not as dry and accurate as the v2 but it has way more output. Almost too much for my taste in an open midsize suv. It is an excellent overall sub. Takes way more power than the v2 and has more output, but the subs sound completely different. 

I had a v3 as well and was not impressed. Dont like the composite basket and the logo flew off to never be seen again. The v4s are a little more accurate and have just as much output as the v3s. The v2s blend effortlessly but try to push it hard and it will let you know....take it easy as it can not handle much power.


Powered by an aura rpm 2300 bridged at 500-600 watts










It was overkill for my taste and needed my trunk back so my hidden epic 8 is back in action but the v4 is no slouch.


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## DonH

great review ^^^^^^^


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## rexroadj

BuickGN said:


> We need facts here. The 12W7 has the same cone area and 29mm xmax vs 19mm. That's a huge difference, in a sealed enclosure or IB the 12W7 has considerably more displacement than the Max12. Even the new 12W6 has the same excursion but a little less cone area. The Max in a sealed application is closer to the W6 in output than the W7.
> 
> The W6 does not have better SQ than the W7. That myth is based on years of assumptions by people who have never heard both in the same setup and the assumption that if it has a lot of linear excursion it must be an SPL sub and many times its treated as such and put in a high tuned ported enclosure. The W7 is JL's top SQ sub.
> 
> Sound quality is subjective but what is not subjective is the W6 and W7 are far quieter, nearly silent at high excursion. The IDMax motor noise will get outright loud when pushed hard especially in a setup like IB or reverse mounting where motor noise can be heard. The Max does sound strained when pushed hard while the W7 never loses composure, it seems bottomless. The Max and W7 aren't in the same league, the W6 is more on its level.
> 
> It has had quality issues as has the IDQ while the W6 has had none and the W7 has none other than the little cosmetic indent in the center of the cone when pushed hard for long periods of time. We're talking baskets breaking, magnet misalignment, not small defects.
> 
> Everything said such as "bogging out" points to enclosure or amp or install problems. Lets try to somewhat keep this factual.


I am going to agree with this 99.9% 
The argument made for the max (loudanproud808), in my opinion, just takes credibility from a product I personally love (equally to the 7, I give it a nod overall to the 6, but love that woofer in its own right). There is a HUGE reason why that woofer has not been touched since its inception a VERY long time ago (w7). Its a freak of nature on all accounts. Yes, it sounds absolutely stunning when someone actually knows what they are doing. They can get down and nasty as a one note wonder in part because of the fact they dont break up under duress so you can WAIL on it and get some substantial SPL. Some love that....and that is what you hear a lot in a lot of vehicles. That has hurt it with those ignorant to its application and ability. 

I LOVE me an ID Max as much as a 7 personally. But I dont think they are a complete apples to apples comparison as mentioned. However, with the W7 being where it is......your going to have to throw some different subs into the conversation when you compare. In my opinion when you do that...the max is usually my first go to.

Credibility went out the window for me with the need to add the "zero gauge" line when talking about how loud the max is....WOW....Really???? And that same line has been repeated in a few threads now from same individual. Yikes! 

Anyway...I dont think we need to do a comparison of lines here..... This is for ID and the Max is awesome no matter how you slice it....actually all there subs are. Something to fit just about anyone. It was always that way and hopefully always will be. Best of luck Don and Crew. 

Now, if we do want the JL ID conversation.....I want this one! Competition is a wonderful thing. Thats why you see BK and McDonalds across from each other everywhere.... Its feeds off each other. ID/JL subs.... So, since we can all agree the 8" W7 has been VERY popular and sold very well...... COMPETE!!!! LOL....... I'm sure the price would be substantially lower and performance within reason to compare..... What the hell is wrong with your marketing department????? Geez!


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## DonH

rexroadj said:


> I am going to agree with this 99.9%
> The argument made for the max (loudanproud808), in my opinion, just takes credibility from a product I personally love (equally to the 7, I give it a nod overall to the 6, but love that woofer in its own right). There is a HUGE reason why that woofer has not been touched since its inception a VERY long time ago (w7). Its a freak of nature on all accounts. Yes, it sounds absolutely stunning when someone actually knows what they are doing. They can get down and nasty as a one note wonder in part because of the fact they dont break up under duress so you can WAIL on it and get some substantial SPL. Some love that....and that is what you hear a lot in a lot of vehicles. That has hurt it with those ignorant to its application and ability.
> 
> I LOVE me an ID Max as much as a 7 personally. But I dont think they are a complete apples to apples comparison as mentioned. However, with the W7 being where it is......your going to have to throw some different subs into the conversation when you compare. In my opinion when you do that...the max is usually my first go to.
> 
> Credibility went out the window for me with the need to add the "zero gauge" line when talking about how loud the max is....WOW....Really???? And that same line has been repeated in a few threads now from same individual. Yikes!
> 
> Anyway...I dont think we need to do a comparison of lines here..... This is for ID and the Max is awesome no matter how you slice it....actually all there subs are. Something to fit just about anyone. It was always that way and hopefully always will be. Best of luck Don and Crew.
> 
> *Now, if we do want the JL ID conversation.....I want this one! Competition is a wonderful thing. Thats why you see BK and McDonalds across from each other everywhere.... Its feeds off each other. ID/JL subs.... So, since we can all agree the 8" W7 has been VERY popular and sold very well...... COMPETE!!!! LOL....... I'm sure the price would be substantially lower and performance within reason to compare..... What the hell is wrong with your marketing department????? Geez!*



compete with the JL w7 8"? so a MAX 8?


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## file audio

DonH said:


> compete with the JL w7 8"? so a MAX 8?


hey somebody is selling me a 8
w7 in a ported box for 200 dlls,,, its a good option,,, i was considering a good sQ. sub like idmax10 and im learning about it right now,m but anybody has ipionions about the quality of the 8w7??? i must confess I heard it and its really loud for a 8inch sub,,,, I cannot believe it that little almost tiny sub was producing that sound... I dont know if my friend had a hidden sub working out but IM considering the 8w7 ,,so
please share some light image dynamics idmax10 idq 8w7... ?? confused


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## rexroadj

DonH said:


> compete with the JL w7 8"? so a MAX 8?


Thats EXACTLY what I've been saying! (for like a frigging decade!!! LOL)

Stop typing and start producing


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## rexroadj

file audio said:


> hey somebody is selling me a 8
> w7 in a ported box for 200 dlls,,, its a good option,,, i was considering a good sQ. sub like idmax10 and im learning about it right now,m but anybody has ipionions about the quality of the 8w7??? i must confess I heard it and its really loud for a 8inch sub,,,, I cannot believe it that little almost tiny sub was producing that sound... I dont know if my friend had a hidden sub working out but IM considering the 8w7 ,,so
> please share some light image dynamics idmax10 idq 8w7... ?? confused


Really?????? again? 

Buddy, do some research on here as the info on both of those is just never ending. And/Or start a new thread. 

8W7 for that $ is a great deal no matter what. Yes, it will provide great SQ. Max 10" Same! Probably wont find one for $200 though. 
Yes, the W7, even the 8" can shoot some serious volume. As can the 10" max. But seriously guys...... lets keep the thread as it belongs.....ID. Not JL comparisons. 
If you want specific answers to the Max......then ask here. Don has been amazing with getting us info we ask so this is a great platform for us to gather info. I just dont think its an adequate platform for this JL/ID back and forth. Both wonderful companies with stellar products!


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## file audio

rexroadj said:


> Really?????? again?
> 
> Buddy, do some research on here as the info on both of those is just never ending. And/Or start a new thread.
> 
> 8W7 for that $ is a great deal no matter what. Yes, it will provide great SQ. Max 10" Same! Probably wont find one for $200 though.
> Yes, the W7, even the 8" can shoot some serious volume. As can the 10" max. But seriously guys...... lets keep the thread as it belongs.....ID. Not JL comparisons.
> If you want specific answers to the Max......then ask here. Don has been amazing with getting us info we ask so this is a great platform for us to gather info. I just dont think its an adequate platform for this JL/ID back and forth. Both wonderful companies with stellar products!


Well let me tell you that is some light.. tnx 
And about the jl/id debate I never read about, Im only looking for the best SQ sub I can buy right now... Remember this Im starting to believe that theres no sub thats no muddy and boomy. With a 3way krx3 often I realize how good my system sounds after a turn off the subwoofer output... lets see if to have a 8inch sub its going to give me that tight clean accurate bass im looking for so many years


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## rexroadj

file audio said:


> Well let me tell you that is some light.. tnx
> And about the jl/id debate I never read about, Im only looking for the best SQ sub I can buy right now... Remember this Im starting to believe that theres no sub thats no muddy and boomy. With a 3way krx3 often I realize how good my system sounds after a turn off the subwoofer output... lets see if to have a 8inch sub its going to give me that tight clean accurate bass im looking for so many years


KRX3 is a GREAT set! Muddy subs leads me to believe it has to do with a lot more then the actual sub. I've used way to many and conducted way to many blind tests with various subs (not one person could pick out what was what.....) to believe that its a sub issue. Its something with specific enclosure choices, power, and tuning more then anything I'm sure! The W7 or Max cant cure those problems! I'm always a fan of doing the absolute most with what I have first. IF that still doesnt do it? Then shop!

The JL back and forth.....Read above....for a while! Then read the name of the thread? To answer your question (which should have been its own thread, no offense). You cannot go wrong for $200 for a 8" W7. It will do everything you will likely want/need. It just may not do so in that box. Still worth it! IF its not doing it for you, have a new box built to your needs. Properly used? That sub will do excellent. IF you cant end up with it for that $? I would go 10" max all day long! Its certainly no parting gift LOL. 
In fact I will likely go with one or two max 10"s (one ported or pair sealed) when I get to that point. Unless of course the ID gods finally make a Max 8" Then its a pair


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## BlackHHR

If I may add something to this thread . We purchased an IDMAX12V3 chrome that we found new . The reason it was purchased was for the SQ abilities it is known for . We are very confident in its ability to accomplish this task . Not to take away from any other debates , but this was our choice .. Small sealed cabinet @ 1.1 cuft . This is our second time using this model from image and was very pleased before . 
Greg


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## rexroadj

BlackHHR said:


> If I may add something to this thread . We purchased an IDMAX12V3 chrome that we found new . The reason it was purchased was for the SQ abilities it is known for . We are very confident in its ability to accomplish this task . Not to take away from any other debates , but this was our choice .. Small sealed cabinet @ 1.1 cuft . This is our second time using this model from image and was very pleased before .
> Greg


B E A U T I F U L!!!!


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## tyroneshoes

file audio said:


> Remember this Im starting to believe that theres no sub thats no muddy and boomy.


IDQ v2, morel ultimo sc, alumapro mx could never be considered boomy subs in the recommended enclosure.


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## file audio

tyroneshoes said:


> IDQ v2, morel ultimo sc, alumapro mx could never be considered boomy subs in the recommended enclosure.


well ,,, i have a 8w7 now ,, i expected less ,, honestly it is loud



Jl audio 8w7 . 8inch sub, spl - YouTube


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## loudnproud808

BuickGN said:


> *We need facts here. The 12W7 has the same cone area and 29mm xmax vs 19mm*. That's a huge difference, in a sealed enclosure or IB the 12W7 has considerably more displacement than the Max12. Even the new 12W6 has the same excursion but a little less cone area. The Max in a sealed application is closer to the W6 in output than the W7.
> 
> The W6 does not have better SQ than the W7. That myth is based on years of assumptions by people who have never heard both in the same setup and the assumption that if it has a lot of linear excursion it must be an SPL sub and many times its treated as such and put in a high tuned ported enclosure. The W7 is JL's top SQ sub.
> 
> Sound quality is subjective but what is not subjective is the W6 and W7 are far quieter, nearly silent at high excursion. The IDMax motor noise will get outright loud when pushed hard especially in a setup like IB or reverse mounting where motor noise can be heard. The Max does sound strained when pushed hard while the W7 never loses composure, it seems bottomless. The Max and W7 aren't in the same league, the W6 is more on its level.
> 
> It has had quality issues as has the IDQ while the W6 has had none and the W7 has none other than the little cosmetic indent in the center of the cone when pushed hard for long periods of time. We're talking baskets breaking, magnet misalignment, not small defects.
> 
> Everything said such as "bogging out" points to enclosure or amp or install problems. Lets try to somewhat keep this factual.


correct me if i am wrong but i had never in my life heard of the IDMAX12 having only 19mm of xmax , i could swear to God that my MAX12v3 was listed at 24.6mm ( yes i had to add the .6 ) but again i could be wrong so maybe im missing something but i would just actually love to be wrong and proven the idiot that the MAX12 infact does have 19mm because for the past 10 years i was pretty sure it was 24, dont forget the .6  but seriously , 19mm vs 29mm IS a huge difference, where as 24mm vs 29mm is not as bad, but with same cone area wich nearly identical then the w7 obviously has it beat , but nowhere near the difference as 19vs29mm

my claims on the 10w7 bottoming out where based upon my listening experience , and altho it was in a JL red eye box and had a JL amp , then i would say that it very well could have been in a "less the perfect" install , and what i heard was not by fault of the 10w7 itself. I should have clarified that better in the first place 



rexroadj said:


> I am going to agree with this 99.9%
> The argument made for the max (loudanproud808), in my opinion, just takes credibility from a product I personally love (equally to the 7, I give it a nod overall to the 6, but love that woofer in its own right). There is a HUGE reason why that woofer has not been touched since its inception a VERY long time ago (w7). Its a freak of nature on all accounts. Yes, it sounds absolutely stunning when someone actually knows what they are doing. They can get down and nasty as a one note wonder in part because of the fact they dont break up under duress so you can WAIL on it and get some substantial SPL. Some love that....and that is what you hear a lot in a lot of vehicles. That has hurt it with those ignorant to its application and ability.
> 
> I LOVE me an ID Max as much as a 7 personally. But I dont think they are a complete apples to apples comparison as mentioned. However, with the W7 being where it is......your going to have to throw some different subs into the conversation when you compare. In my opinion when you do that...the max is usually my first go to.
> 
> Credibility went out the window for me with the need to add the "zero gauge" line when talking about how loud the max is....WOW....Really???? And that same line has been repeated in a few threads now from same individual. Yikes!
> 
> Anyway...I dont think we need to do a comparison of lines here..... This is for ID and the Max is awesome no matter how you slice it....actually all there subs are. Something to fit just about anyone. It was always that way and hopefully always will be. Best of luck Don and Crew.
> 
> Now, if we do want the JL ID conversation.....I want this one! Competition is a wonderful thing. Thats why you see BK and McDonalds across from each other everywhere.... Its feeds off each other. ID/JL subs.... So, since we can all agree the 8" W7 has been VERY popular and sold very well...... COMPETE!!!! LOL....... I'm sure the price would be substantially lower and performance within reason to compare..... What the hell is wrong with your marketing department????? Geez!


yes i dont mean to turn this into a JL vs ID thread , sorry bout that , but with all due respect when i said the thing about zero gauge let me state this , in my state HI and island Oahu there isnt much out there but Alpine,JL,rockford,MTX,Kicker,and DD.. So 99% of anyone who has a "bad ass" single 12 set up , think there incredibly awesome with 1 type x or one t2 , i have so many with 1 or 2 L7s and most of these systems are not so great. i once had a guy and tell me theres no way my sounds where as loud as , when he said he had 2 12mtx9500s on 4000watts i pretty much agreed.... untill i heard it and it was on a eclipse4000 amp wich was like an 8 channel 400 watt :worried: anyway there are still many smart people who do kno what they are doing and MY LIFE i have never heard a single 12 hit like mine. thats my fact, and i have heard 100s upon 100s of setups , is it my sub ? yes , but lets not forget box, car, 3 packs of rammat and ensolite , the fact that i took out my 6/9s and removed my near deck pannel to get rid of rattles, yellowtop up front kinetik in the back and my amp and wires are of grade aswell , also did the big 3.. And all that said , the guy that owns the shop that sells ID on this island hit like 145db with one ID8 , im sure he DID NOT need any zero gauge for that , so as to my comment that is entirely true being that 99% of the people i know or meet think that because they have some zero gauge a DD and 3000 watts that they will be king of the streets.....maybe i just got a good set up , its not just because i have a good sub , but i give great credit towards it. And so does anyone who hears it , i go up against MANY systems who have more watts , ZERO GAUGE  , 1 12 , 2 12s, 2 15s , mostly everyone thinks i have atleast 2 12s. i was pretty sure that when i went up against 1 RE XXX12 in a huge box on 5000watts aaaaaand some 0gauge ofcourse  that this XXX would be impressive especially cuz it was the sound shops show car , I WAS NOT IMPRESSED. was it there install ? probly . 

SO any way , amongst idiots , my single 12 set up is INCREDIBLE. no trophy there. 
BUT TO ME , i have spent countless hours trying to perfect my single 12 setup in SQ and SPL , and for myself , i am no expert but i think my setup is amazing , and i give GREAT credit towards my IDMAX12 , i simply love it .

SO ABOUT ZERO GAUGE !? i am terribly sorry but in my experience of going thru litterally a hundred subs and seeing so many others, and watching and hearing my "SQL" sub beat SPL "monsters" like DD9500 on 3000watts with the big bad zero gauge ! :laugh: 
^ im sure that in a perfect set up , DD9500 vs IDMAX12 the dd is louder , i know that . i am just very impressed with my MAX , thats all.
Im no expert , but am very much involved with the car audio scene and have been my whole life , i know all about the Brahma and W7 and ICON and Black ETC many subs in a similar catergory to compare to , if u believe that a w7 can get LOUD , believe me a IDMAX CAN GET LOUD 2

i know... i write novels.. wish i could get my point across in a shorter way , but thats the best i could do to back up my previous comments to my "credibility" as a fairly knowledgeable audio freak im pretty passionate bout this life!


----------



## rexroadj

loudnproud808 said:


> i know... i write novels.. wish i could get my point across in a shorter way , but thats the best i could do to back up my previous comments to my "credibility" as a fairly knowledgeable audio freak im pretty passionate bout this life!


#1. I do not require someone to tell me anything in regards to what a Max can do.....if you read, you will note that I am quite the fan myself. As I am of the W (most of the Ws actually)

Your "Way" of getting your point across is what, in my opinion, hurts those wishing to get clarity about choosing between drivers. No offense but your bias towards one sub over another is, for a lack of better word, foolish and juvenile. Its really not helping any cause. The fact that you need to add anything about zero gauge, and still trying to back up the need to say it, really tears everything apart in my book. You love your Max! It does it for you. Thats awesome, and all that really matters. You can say that and leave it at that because so far everything you say afterwards just tears apart the base of your statements. When I'm shopping? I too lean towards the Max because I get more then enough performance out of a Max for the price vs. spending that much more for the W7. Thats my reason. And I know I can do the same things minus maybe max output? 

So its not about a debate on which is "best" between JL and ID. If anything its the differences between them that can be discussed and what suits whom because of said differences....IN A DIFFERENT THREAD!!!!

My advice to you, is if your going to be a Max fanboy? (and there is NOTHING wrong with that) and you wish people take your statements seriously? Change your tune and info you wish to provide to prove something. 

I believe the 24.6 is also correct too? but I could be mistake as well. Either way the #s dont lie in this case about the W7s capabilities physically!

And I would LOVE to see that 8" ID sub do 145db. I'm sure ID would love to see that too! I think you might be thinking of either an L7 8" or the DD1508. Even that may be pushing it a lot! Hell I remember a car with one 12" Max with a tru something or other (around 1k of power or so) that barely hit the 145 mark. But that was his ultimate goal in his sq car so he was thrilled....but it was not at all easy to hit that mark given his layout even with a 12" max. Sounded phenomenal though!

I think were on the same team here overall


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## DonH

How did this thread become a w7 vs MAX pissing match? hah! honestly, if you have reservations about either sub, buy both and try them out  there is always something bigger and better BUT in a different price point. ALSO lets not forget to mention, our drivers, the Q and MAX are FIELD RECONE-ABLE! The JL drivers are not and you are looking at a $350 +shipping both ways IF you make the magic smoke that smells like burned beans. Im confident that our Drivers will suit even the most picky listeners needs. It all falls on the install. I do appreciate all the input in this thread. Without customers with questions, we would be nowhere.


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## file audio

Im burning a 8w7 righ now but the tiny sub is inmortal. . I would preffer a idmax10 but cannot afford it right now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsPJHv46_8U&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## rexroadj

DonH said:


> How did this thread become a w7 vs MAX pissing match? hah! honestly, if you have reservations about either sub, buy both and try them out  there is always something bigger and better BUT in a different price point. ALSO lets not forget to mention, our drivers, the Q and MAX are FIELD RECONE-ABLE! The JL drivers are not and you are looking at a $350 +shipping both ways IF you make the magic smoke that smells like burned beans. Im confident that our Drivers will suit even the most picky listeners needs. It all falls on the install. I do appreciate all the input in this thread. Without customers with questions, we would be nowhere.


Sorry Don, I have been part of keeping the discussions going when my intent is actually to stop them as I do not feel they have a place in this ID thread. 

Both the IDQ and Max (all lines) have a great deal to offer, especially in there price points (which baffles me even more as to why they are not better represented across this country!!!) and I also agree...they will please most any listener! 
Sorry, 

and best of luck! 

seriously though....where's my 8" max?


----------



## DonH

rexroadj said:


> Sorry Don, I have been part of keeping the discussions going when my intent is actually to stop them as I do not feel they have a place in this ID thread.
> 
> Both the IDQ and Max (all lines) have a great deal to offer, especially in there price points (which baffles me even more as to why they are not better represented across this country!!!) and I also agree...they will please most any listener!
> Sorry,
> 
> and best of luck!
> 
> seriously though....where's my 8" max?



8" Q Design is fully done and we are waiting on prices and go ahead  this just in today  

we will see how the q 8 does in the market then think about the max 8  Field recone-able 8 FTW


----------



## rexroadj

DonH said:


> 8" Q Design is fully done and we are waiting on prices and go ahead  this just in today
> 
> we will see how the q 8 does in the market then think about the max 8  Field recone-able 8 FTW


OUTSTANDING!!!! If its on par with the output levels of the new IDQ then thats fantastic. The original Q 8"s sounded amazing but not a whole lot could be done with them because volume was very limited...... If you need beta  I have a long list of 8" reviews on here already..... Just sayin'

I do think the Max would do a little better as an 8" offering only because of the ID 8" that already exists and does very well at a great price point. It will be interesting to see where the Q sits against it? 
Regardless......this is very cool to hear about. Cant wait to see/hear them!!!!
Thanks for the update!


----------



## DonH

The q 8" will feature the exact same coil size as the 10" and 12". Actuslly it is the exact same coil. We are hoping once prototypes are built and the go ahead is enacted we will get great reviews! Changes are happening here at ID all in a positive manner. We cant thank all of our customers enough for continuos support! Stay tuned for some great speakers!


----------



## loudnproud808

rexroadj said:


> #1. I do not require someone to tell me anything in regards to what a Max can do.....if you read, you will note that I am quite the fan myself. As I am of the W (most of the Ws actually)
> 
> Your "Way" of getting your point across is what, in my opinion, hurts those wishing to get clarity about choosing between drivers. No offense but your bias towards one sub over another is, for a lack of better word, foolish and juvenile. Its really not helping any cause. The fact that you need to add anything about zero gauge, and still trying to back up the need to say it, really tears everything apart in my book. You love your Max! It does it for you. Thats awesome, and all that really matters. You can say that and leave it at that because so far everything you say afterwards just tears apart the base of your statements. When I'm shopping? I too lean towards the Max because I get more then enough performance out of a Max for the price vs. spending that much more for the W7. Thats my reason. And I know I can do the same things minus maybe max output?
> 
> So its not about a debate on which is "best" between JL and ID. If anything its the differences between them that can be discussed and what suits whom because of said differences....IN A DIFFERENT THREAD!!!!
> 
> My advice to you, is if your going to be a Max fanboy? (and there is NOTHING wrong with that) and you wish people take your statements seriously? Change your tune and info you wish to provide to prove something.
> 
> I believe the 24.6 is also correct too? but I could be mistake as well. Either way the #s dont lie in this case about the W7s capabilities physically!
> 
> And I would LOVE to see that 8" ID sub do 145db. I'm sure ID would love to see that too! I think you might be thinking of either an L7 8" or the DD1508. Even that may be pushing it a lot! Hell I remember a car with one 12" Max with a tru something or other (around 1k of power or so) that barely hit the 145 mark. But that was his ultimate goal in his sq car so he was thrilled....but it was not at all easy to hit that mark given his layout even with a 12" max. Sounded phenomenal though!
> 
> I think were on the same team here overall


yes my way of getting my point across is not the best but i jus gotta try to ! Both great subs thats for sure, and i am a max fan boy  thats for sure 

the id8 ofcourse was not on music , but just a burp and hit like 143.6 or 144.6 i forget but either one of those for sure , in hawaii for Naka audio , they had a facebook page with pics and everything , but now its down not sure why.. he wanted to show that ID subs are SQ but are able to get very loud , as to show people they are not just SQ subs.. heck he got 1 10 sonic sound labs to hit 151 , im sure u could get 2 12 maxs to do that or more !

anyway hope i didnt derail the thread to much ,

And IDMAX8 would be so awesome , but even IDQ 8s would be awesome aswell , that would be sweet


----------



## DonH

IDQ8's will more than likely be a reality now its just a waiting game for tooling


----------



## RNBRAD

loudnproud808 said:


> correct me if i am wrong but i had never in my life heard of the IDMAX12 having only 19mm of xmax , i could swear to God that my MAX12v3 was listed at 24.6mm ( yes i had to add the .6 )


24.6 is correct (1 way linear)


----------



## loudnproud808

RNBRAD said:


> 24.6 is correct (1 way linear)


yes thankyou for clarifying this , 
When Buickgn said that it was 19mm i seriously did not know how to react, when he asked for FACTS , when an IDQ10 is listed at 19mm i have no clue as to how a IDMAX12 has also 19mm? maybe this is why he thought the output to be much less, but be it whatever is the FACTS of the 7 vs the MAX , they are pretty close in output no matter how u look at it. 

i just hate when people try to make the max sound "wimpy" , in my book - ITS A BEAST ! for a simple low wattage single sub setup , i think the max is pretty hard to compete with


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> IDQ8's will more than likely be a reality now its just a waiting game for tooling



hope this isnt a newb question , but could these be used as a mid bass , or like paired with say a max 12 somehow that would be "correct" in an audiophiles view .. i feel like my comps can either be a set with good midbass and not enough midrange , or perfect midrange but wouldnt mind just a lil more midbass , or punch i guess.. i like to tune my max down low at @28hrz but get better punch out of the smaller box @32hrz, and better yet sealed.. 

man i hope this is appropriate to this thread aswell ! but these Q8s interest me in that aspect , like kick pannels or sumthing !? so i get my killer low bass , but better results above say im guessing like maybe 50 60hrz and higher to whatever extent...? 
or am i on the wrong approach to what im in search of ..
Q8s would be sick


----------



## rexroadj

loudnproud808 said:


> hope this isnt a newb question , but could these be used as a mid bass , or like paired with say a max 12 somehow that would be "correct" in an audiophiles view .. i feel like my comps can either be a set with good midbass and not enough midrange , or perfect midrange but wouldnt mind just a lil more midbass , or punch i guess.. i like to tune my max down low at @28hrz but get better punch out of the smaller box @32hrz, and better yet sealed..
> 
> man i hope this is appropriate to this thread aswell ! but these Q8s interest me in that aspect , like kick pannels or sumthing !? so i get my killer low bass , but better results above say im guessing like maybe 50 60hrz and higher to whatever extent...?
> or am i on the wrong approach to what im in search of ..
> Q8s would be sick


Good Question!
The original IDQ 8"s were great midbass! I used them with horns back in the day. They also made a 6.5" IDQ sub I believe too. (Hint Hint Don

The new versions of Qs seem to have stepped away from the original premise of end results. (not in a bad way in any way shape or form!) I remember when I was done with 8" subs in my doors I built a small ported box to see what they would do as dedicated subs. Sounded really nice but output was horrid. The new IDQ's dont strike me as being short in the output department. How that will translate to the new 8" being midbass compatible? I have no idea? But seeing as how the originals were polar opposite to todays drivers......My first assumption is they will likely not be geared towards the same capabilities? But I look forward to Dons response here. Although, Alpine had a nasty midbass setup with the Type R 8"s and that is a pretty stout little subwoofer! I will say that getting a "sub" to sound proper in a door is extremely difficult for more reasons then the size. Kicks..... maybe? But properly tuned and used 6.5/7" midbass shouldnt leave anything lacking. I always found ID setups (full) sounding amazing, most all of them were tuned higher then what some (me at the time) would consider normal. (mids/subs xover at 100 or more...but it worked, VERY well! Lots of impact...the drivers/subs are MORE then capable in this region so let them do the handy work


----------



## BuickGN

RNBRAD said:


> 24.6 is correct (1 way linear)


V4 http://www.imagedynamicsusa.net/files/70537949.pdf

V3 Can't find the old PDF from ID but here's from a thread in here: 

Specifications:

* Power RMS: 1000 Watts EIA, (1800 Watts Music Program)
* Recommended enclosure: 1.30 -1.52 cu.ft. sealed (1.8 - 2.50 cu.ft. vented
* @ 28Hz), Infinite baffle
* Xmax (linear): 24.9 mm, (0.98 inch) one-way
* Xsus (maximum): 3.5 peak to peak
* Impedance: dual 4 ohms
* Sensitivity: 1W/1M
* 93.1 dB 50-150 Hz ground plane. No 88.4 dB
* Mounting depth: 8.25“
* Mounting diameter: 11.0“

Notice one is rated peak to peak, one is rated one way. It seems that the v4 lost some excursion over the v3.


----------



## loudnproud808

BuickGN said:


> V4 http://www.imagedynamicsusa.net/files/70537949.pdf
> 
> V3 Can't find the old PDF from ID but here's from a thread in here:
> 
> Specifications:
> 
> * Power RMS: 1000 Watts EIA, (1800 Watts Music Program)
> * Recommended enclosure: 1.30 -1.52 cu.ft. sealed (1.8 - 2.50 cu.ft. vented
> * @ 28Hz), Infinite baffle
> * Xmax (linear): 24.9 mm, (0.98 inch) one-way
> * Xsus (maximum): 3.5 peak to peak
> * Impedance: dual 4 ohms
> * Sensitivity: 1W/1M
> * 93.1 dB 50-150 Hz ground plane. No 88.4 dB
> * Mounting depth: 8.25“
> * Mounting diameter: 11.0“
> 
> Notice one is rated peak to peak, one is rated one way. It seems that the v4 lost some excursion over the v3.


yea i was wondering if Don could clear that up as i am still confused , the site now shows the xmax at like 40mm or so and that obviously not the same measurement used for v3s 

so - don can we get an answer to that if the excursion capabilities are the the same, less, or more than the v3s ????


and something else to note, for those who have listened to the v4s and said they sound good and are similar to the v3s , they still have some time to break in and really sound good ,isnt that right !? my v3 when new went from sounding good in a [email protected] but after a few weeks it got much much louder and sounded better aswell.


----------



## DonH

To answer your questions about the XMAX rating, it is exactly the same as the v3. Exactly the same. Tom i will re-measure the coil to get you exact measurement. 

AS far as the Q8 being a midbass driver, only time will tell once the parts come in for me to make the prototype. Trust me, this was in the back of my mind


----------



## rexroadj

DonH said:


> AS far as the Q8 being a midbass driver, only time will tell once the parts come in for me to make the prototype. Trust me, this was in the back of my mind


Good Man  I look forward to your testing and findings!


----------



## 68962

Oh hell yes!!! I AM getting an IDMAX15v4D2!!!! I literally can not find anyones first impressions with this 15 but I am going to pull the trigger on it anyway! My wife is buying me one for my birthday in two weeks!


----------



## BuickGN

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Oh hell yes!!! I AM getting an IDMAX15v4D2!!!! I literally can not find anyones first impressions with this 15 but I am going to pull the trigger on it anyway! My wife is buying me one for my birthday in two weeks!


Nice. Hopefully you can post a review, they're really lacking. Any idea what kind of enclosure its going in?


----------



## DonH

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Oh hell yes!!! I AM getting an IDMAX15v4D2!!!! I literally can not find anyones first impressions with this 15 but I am going to pull the trigger on it anyway! My wife is buying me one for my birthday in two weeks!


sweet! do post pictures as well as a detailed review!


----------



## thehatedguy

The orignal IDQ6s and 8s were more woofers, but people used them as subs in tight spaces and midbasses with horns.

But there were a couple IDQ8s, the first had paper cones, then the composite cone with a seperate surround, and then the unisurround/gasket.



rexroadj said:


> Good Question!
> The original IDQ 8"s were great midbass! I used them with horns back in the day. They also made a 6.5" IDQ sub I believe too. (Hint Hint Don
> 
> The new versions of Qs seem to have stepped away from the original premise of end results. (not in a bad way in any way shape or form!) I remember when I was done with 8" subs in my doors I built a small ported box to see what they would do as dedicated subs. Sounded really nice but output was horrid. The new IDQ's dont strike me as being short in the output department. How that will translate to the new 8" being midbass compatible? I have no idea? But seeing as how the originals were polar opposite to todays drivers......My first assumption is they will likely not be geared towards the same capabilities? But I look forward to Dons response here. Although, Alpine had a nasty midbass setup with the Type R 8"s and that is a pretty stout little subwoofer! I will say that getting a "sub" to sound proper in a door is extremely difficult for more reasons then the size. Kicks..... maybe? But properly tuned and used 6.5/7" midbass shouldnt leave anything lacking. I always found ID setups (full) sounding amazing, most all of them were tuned higher then what some (me at the time) would consider normal. (mids/subs xover at 100 or more...but it worked, VERY well! Lots of impact...the drivers/subs are MORE then capable in this region so let them do the handy work


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> To answer your questions about the XMAX rating, it is exactly the same as the v3. Exactly the same. Tom i will re-measure the coil to get you exact measurement.
> 
> AS far as the Q8 being a midbass driver, only time will tell once the parts come in for me to make the prototype. Trust me, this was in the back of my mind


cool ,this is good news as thought i just wanted to clarify with myself..

i hate to run u in circles with questions but when the specs where first posted they did say the same xmax for the v4 10 and 12 , but then it listed the max15v4 at like 27 or 28 mm , so not only would it have allot of cone area over a single 12 but also more xmax , so theoretically then i believe it would have tons more output, and TO ME a ridiculous amount of output for a single sub setup on music..just what i want! 

thanks for taking the time to communicate with us so frequently on this forum , that really is great


----------



## 68962

I'm looking at the website now and I am seeing 39mm xmax for the 10" & 12" and 44mm xmax for the 15" IDMAX. Obviously this is peak to peak so we can look for approx. 20mm and 22mm linear excursion??? Where did all the linear excursion go in the 4th iteration of the IDMAX line??? 

Don, have you had a chance to remeasure the xmax on the 3rd gen. IDAMX's??? I would really like to know if 24.6(25)mm is the actual linear excursion or not. If it is then why are we loosing almost 5mm of linear excursion? Even with a stiffer suspension adding more power would allow for the former xmax to be achieved, right?


----------



## loudnproud808

OneSpiritBrain said:


> I'm looking at the website now and I am seeing 39mm xmax for the 10" & 12" and 44mm xmax for the 15" IDMAX. Obviously this is peak to peak so we can look for approx. 20mm and 22mm linear excursion??? Where did all the linear excursion go in the 4th iteration of the IDMAX line???
> 
> Don, have you had a chance to remeasure the xmax on the 3rd gen. IDAMX's??? I would really like to know if 24.6(25)mm is the actual linear excursion or not. If it is then why are we loosing almost 5mm of linear excursion? Even with a stiffer suspension adding more power would allow for the former xmax to be achieved, right?


originally the V4s were listed exactly as the v3s , 24.6mm , this is the linear excursion not the peak to peak , but the 15 said like 28mm. now they have all changed to the peak to peak.


----------



## 68962

loudnproud808 said:


> originally the V4s were listed exactly as the v3s , 24.6mm , this is the linear excursion not the peak to peak , but the 15 said like 28mm. now they have all changed to the peak to peak.


::Regarding the IDMAX12v4::
Yes but 24.6(2)=49.2mm total excursion. They have listed 39mm total excursion.. that's a loss of 10.2mm of total excursion.

::Regarding the IDMAX15v4::
From the 12v3 to the 15v4 we are going from 24.6(2)=49.2mm to 44mm.. that's a total loss of 5.2mm of total excursion.

I'm not worried, at all, about a 5mm loss going to the 15" woofer but in my mind, unless a different spider suspension is used, the xmax would be the same or very close to it. So I guess the 15v4 and the 12v4 are using different spiders and probably different coils. 

I don't understand what's going on here... Don you stated the excursion for the v4's would be "exactly" the same as the v3's. So where are these reported losses coming from? 

Let me use the HDC3 as an example...
HDC310(36mm total excursion)
HDC312(36mm total excursion)
HDC315(36mm total excursion)
HDC318(36mm total excursion)

If the same motor and suspension are being used then the 12v4 and 15v4 should see the same excursion. 

Can you please clarify this Don? I'm buying one either way BTW! I really want to know what the new Image Dynamics team findings are regarding the T/S measurements of the 12v3. I think this is probably where the discrepancy rests... Which is fine but please sir, clarify this for us.


----------



## DonH

After re-measuring a few times, both the 10" and 12" v4's XMAX rating is CORRECT. I am very unsure as to how 24.6mm was the OG figure. One Way linear XMAX is found by measuring the length of winding above the top plate to the top of the winding. You can figure this by subtracting the top plate thickness from the total overall coil winding height, then dividing by two. Adding together gives you two way linear excursion within safety limits and 100% gap strength. PE spec sheets of our coils, which have not changed, state the length of the 10"/12" coil and 15" coil. These figures i used to re-measure. 
I hope this clears this up.
-Don


----------



## 68962

DonH said:


> After re-measuring a few times, both the 10" and 12" v4's XMAX rating is CORRECT. I am very unsure as to how 24.6mm was the OG figure. One Way linear XMAX is found by measuring the length of winding above the top plate to the top of the winding. You can figure this by subtracting the top plate thickness from the total overall coil winding height, then dividing by two. Adding together gives you two way linear excursion within safety limits and 100% gap strength. PE spec sheets of our coils, which have not changed, state the length of the 10"/12" coil and 15" coil. These figures i used to re-measure.
> I hope this clears this up.
> -Don


Thank you Don! I wasn't in any way questioning the v4 measurements, rather the v3 measurements, but that does not matter at all to me now. I feel confident in ID's new team. After reading both of the ID threads it is very apparent that ID is going to be better than it ever was. I can't wait to see the future products! 

I mean really, let's think about it... How many years were we all waiting on IDMAX15's to come to fruition, almost 5 years myself! And the new team churned the IDMAX15 out right off the rip! I can't wait to put my hard earned money in their hands and listen to that buttery smooth accurate ultra low end frequency bass pulse through my vehicle with authority! 

Hail Image Dynamics!


----------



## Brian_smith06

You make it sound like Eric didn't have anything to do with the idmax 15. How do you think they were able to turn it out so fast?

That being said I do wish I could afford one right now. I loved my 12s


----------



## 68962

Brian_smith06 said:


> You make it sound like Eric didn't have anything to do with the idmax 15. How do you think they were able to turn it out so fast?
> 
> That being said I do wish I could afford one right now. I loved my 12s


Good point!! I shouldn't have that attitude. I guess I just feel ill because it took so damn long... I'm sorry!

There are incredible deals to be found my friend. ID wants these things out there and gaining attention I am sure, so I'd put a WTB out and see what you get in regard to a deal. 

That 15 is so sexy! I'm glad they did away with the chrome and darkened the basket. I think I'll just ride mine around in the passenger seat, buckled of course, so I can look at it  

I'm sorry Eric... Forgive my enflated internet ego. It is quite disgusting.

Michael


----------



## Brian_smith06

All is well. Just want to make sure Eric still gets credit for all he has done


----------



## moparman79

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Good point!! I shouldn't have that attitude. I guess I just feel ill because it took so damn long... I'm sorry!
> 
> There are incredible deals to be found my friend. ID wants these things out there and gaining attention I am sure, so I'd put a WTB out and see what you get in regard to a deal.
> 
> That 15 is so sexy! I'm glad they did away with the chrome and darkened the basket. I think I'll just ride mine around in the passenger seat, buckled of course, so I can look at it
> 
> I'm sorry Eric... Forgive my enflated internet ego. It is quite disgusting.
> 
> Michael


Hey clear your pm, I cant message you until then.


----------



## DonH

Brian_smith06 said:


> All is well. Just want to make sure Eric still gets credit for all he has done


As he should and we all wish him the best of luck to him and his new adventures. 

About the 15" MAX when you guys get them PLEASE give us REVIEWS! if something needs to be changed (Which i highly doubt) we will do it so let us know!


----------



## 68962

customaudioman said:


> Hey clear your pm, I cant message you until then.


Done


----------



## 68962

DonH said:


> As he should and we all wish him the best of luck to him and his new adventures.
> 
> About the 15" MAX when you guys get them PLEASE give us REVIEWS! if something needs to be changed (Which i highly doubt) we will do it so let us know!


It'll have to be after quite a few listening sessions unless you don't mind the review to be pornographic in nature 

Haha no! but I was planning on buying my sub last, as I am having to start from scratch on this system, so I have to save up for a decent amp to go with the beaut. Would just be the sub I had to buy but methamphetamine strikes again... 

Anyway yeah I can give an unboxing review but a runtime review isnt near in my situation.


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> After re-measuring a few times, both the 10" and 12" v4's XMAX rating is CORRECT. I am very unsure as to how 24.6mm was the OG figure. One Way linear XMAX is found by measuring the length of winding above the top plate to the top of the winding. You can figure this by subtracting the top plate thickness from the total overall coil winding height, then dividing by two. Adding together gives you two way linear excursion within safety limits and 100% gap strength. PE spec sheets of our coils, which have not changed, state the length of the 10"/12" coil and 15" coil. These figures i used to re-measure.
> I hope this clears this up.
> -Don



damn sorry Don im such a dummy im confused again! when u say the *xmax rating is correct* do u mean that the 12max - 39mm being the peak to peak is correct , or ?? sorry im lost..

even the 12idqv4 is stated to be 28mm xmax on the site as of now , and on the pdf doc its stated as "peak to peak"
but the idqv3 , rated at 19mm one way linear excursion 

if Onespiritbrittain is correct about his ways of xmax vs peak2peak then 19x2=38 , much more than 28 

and if all this is true then the 12maxv3 being 24mm one way linear (48mm peak2peak? , vs the 12maxv4 being 39????

im so lost , sorry i dont understand the equations to this , but u had said before that the excursion capabilities of the V3 and V4 were exactly the same, so is it 24? or less? or more ????

is it really going to be 39/2 thats about 19mm linear excursion ? man i remember back in the day the idmax being listed at 3.5inch peak to peak excursion ? Idk about that but i will say that my Max12v4 has great excursion and much much more than my formerly owned type r 12 and also type x 12 , i think the x was like 19mmxmax and my Idmax has much more VISIBLE excursion , output, and low bass extension , and better SQ IMHO..

i feel like an idiot ! but can u help me one last time , i wont ever question the specs of a maxV3,v4 ever again ! :bowdown:


----------



## DonH

yes 19.5mm one way for the 10 and 12. The tech sheets say xmax when they should not. Xmax is a one way measurement. And never feel like an idiot man! thats what we are here for!


----------



## BuickGN

DonH said:


> After re-measuring a few times, both the 10" and 12" v4's XMAX rating is CORRECT. I am very unsure as to how 24.6mm was the OG figure. One Way linear XMAX is found by measuring the length of winding above the top plate to the top of the winding. You can figure this by subtracting the top plate thickness from the total overall coil winding height, then dividing by two. Adding together gives you two way linear excursion within safety limits and 100% gap strength. PE spec sheets of our coils, which have not changed, state the length of the 10"/12" coil and 15" coil. These figures i used to re-measure.
> I hope this clears this up.
> -Don


Don, isn't this putting your subs at a disadvantage? Isn't xmax usually when BL hits 70%? It seems like you're derating the subs if I'm not mistaken. If everyone else is rating at 70% and you're doing it at 100% your subs will have an artificially low xmax rating. Or maybe I'm wrong and this is how everyone does it. I think we all appreciate the honesty.


----------



## DonH

Yes alot of people do it at 70% hence the og 24.6 mm rating. We chose not to. 100% honesty for hour customer is what we want.


----------



## 68962

DonH said:


> Yes alot of people do it at 70% hence the og 24.6 mm rating. We chose not to. 100% honesty for hour customer is what we want.


I swear honesty is the key to success. I think if stores would stop putting $.99 at the end of every price in hopes of hoodooing their customers their business would increase. Anyone can spot horse excrement and we've all gotten used to seeing it. Honesty is a breath of fresh air amongst a landfill of lies. 

Once again all hail Image Dynamics!

I can't wait to put my money in your hands.



BuickGN said:


> Don, isn't this putting your subs at a disadvantage? Isn't xmax usually when BL hits 70%? It seems like you're derating the subs if I'm not mistaken. If everyone else is rating at 70% and you're doing it at 100% your subs will have an artificially low xmax rating. Or maybe I'm wrong and this is how everyone does it. I think we all appreciate the honesty.


I agree, Don we absolutely do appreciate the honesty! The general feeling I have is that we are in for an exciting new era of Image Dynamics.


----------



## BuickGN

Honesty is always welcome but I'm sure there's a good reason why the rest of the industry doesn't rate at 100% Bl. If we want full disclosure each model should be klippeled, maybe suspension or inductance would limit the xmax rating before Bl


----------



## loudnproud808

great so the v4 still has the same excursion as the v3 , and the 15v4 acctually more than the v3 12,10s..


SOOO - does this mean that a IDMAX12 has the same xmax as a lets say for example Alpine type X 12? 

they are both now listed at 19mm xmax

i could swear to God that by owning a 12type X for over a year , yes it was good , but in comparison to the IDMAX , SQ the max beats it IMHO , but output it also beats it. I know that the MAX has more cone area , but VISUALLY , i got perfectm 20 20 vision, and im very good with my measurements ,working on sounds and being a handyman my whole life, but MY IDMAX seems to have a whole inch MORE of total excursion . it moves much more than my type X, much more than Solobaric l7s(those are less than the x ) and the w6v2 seems to be the same as the type x , and also a t2 , in my sight, does not move as much. ofcourse this is just a visual thing , and not a real measurement.

or does alpine measure there subs similar to how ID used to like with the 24.6?

i mean RE lists there XXX at 54mm xmax, thats absurd , that thing moves but again just visually about the same as the idmax , and performance wise SQ or SPL i honestly was not impressed , even systems with there 2 12 or 2 15 sx's in huge boxes i was never impressed with them


----------



## 68962

loudnproud808 said:


> i mean RE lists there XXX at 54mm xmax, thats absurd , that thing moves but again just visually about the same as the idmax , and performance wise SQ or SPL i honestly was not impressed , even systems with there 2 12 or 2 15 sx's in huge boxes i was never impressed with them


I had an AQ HDC315CD1 on 1200 worms and I swear the HDC3 would shake the contents of my truck all over the place but it was easy to sit in there and listen/feel for long periods of time. When I got my IDMAX12v3D4 it didn't pop water bottles out of the cup holder but I swear there was soooooooo much more audible sound coming from that thing that it was honestly hard to listen to at full tilt for very long at all. I had lots of people jump out of the car immediately when demoing the IDMAX but never, not once, did anyone jump out with the HDC3.

That IDMAX at full tilt on certain frequencies would do something weird to my ears where the bass, so AUDIBLY loud, sounded like the crash from a peel of thunder looped. It was insane. 

Other things I noticed were that while my HDC3 would rattle the dishes in my kitchen approx 2-3 MINUTES before I got home you could hear the IDMAX more than a mile away or more than 5 MINUTES before I got home.

IMO SQ is superior to SPL unless you are competing for numbers or your a juvenile. I used to love pulling up beside a car that was flexing like crazy only to drown them out with AUDIBLE clean bass!


----------



## sinister-kustoms

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Other things I noticed were that while my HDC3 would rattle the dishes in my kitchen approx 2-3 MINUTES before I got home you could hear the IDMAX more than a mile away or more than 5 MINUTES before I got home.


Wait, what? Were you driving 5mph?


----------



## BuickGN

OneSpiritBrain said:


> I had an AQ HDC315CD1 on 1200 worms and I swear the HDC3 would shake the contents of my truck all over the place but it was easy to sit in there and listen/feel for long periods of time. When I got my IDMAX12v3D4 it didn't pop water bottles out of the cup holder but I swear there was soooooooo much more audible sound coming from that thing that it was honestly hard to listen to at full tilt for very long at all. I had lots of people jump out of the car immediately when demoing the IDMAX but never, not once, did anyone jump out with the HDC3.
> 
> That IDMAX at full tilt on certain frequencies would do something weird to my ears where the bass, so AUDIBLY loud, sounded like the crash from a peel of thunder looped. It was insane.
> 
> Other things I noticed were that while my HDC3 would rattle the dishes in my kitchen approx 2-3 MINUTES before I got home you could hear the IDMAX more than a mile away or more than 5 MINUTES before I got home.
> 
> IMO SQ is superior to SPL unless you are competing for numbers or your a juvenile. I used to love pulling up beside a car that was flexing like crazy only to drown them out with AUDIBLE clean bass!


One IDMax 12 has about the same displacement as one of my 15s (according to the old specs). I have two of them. I have enough power to push them to their mechanical limits and I would be surprised if you could hear them 1/4 mile away on a really quiet day. I don't know how you can make these claims with a single 12.


----------



## 68962

sinister-kustoms said:


> Wait, what? Were you driving 5mph?


Well if you figure all the speed bumps and stop signs then I guess on average or something. The beginning of Holly Dr. is right at a 1/2 mile from the house and right past where you turn on the road is where the dishes would start to lightly vibrate with the HDC3 and by the time you reach the park which is like an 1/8 of a mile the dishes would be outright clattering. The IDMAX wouldn't vibrate the dishes like that but you can start hearing the bass, albeit faint, way before Holly Dr., I mean at least a 1/2 mile before or maybe further.

I guess it might not be saying all that much though because you can hear concerts at the festivals on the square clear as day and the squares gotta be 3 or 4 miles away at least. It's weird though because you'll hear the music super clear and then all the sudden it disappears and then comes back. And it's not because they stopped playing either because we have investigated. The acoustics in Gainesville Ga are crazy. Nothing I said seems outlandish to me so maybe I guess you would just have to see it to believe it... You know what it might have something to do with there being a large lake running through the middle of Gainseville. Its certainly not due to a lack of trees. Ive been speculating what the causes of the awesome acoustics are since I was a small child. My dad told me that the military academy used to have a lion and at night you could hear it roaring back when he was a kid and that's pretty far away, I'd say at least a mile maybe two...

Anyway I hate when people call BS on things they have no idea about.. No worries though I do it ALL THE TIME I guess I just feel ill when I'm the one whose statements are under scrutiny.


----------



## loudnproud808

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Well if you figure all the speed bumps and stop signs then I guess on average or something. The beginning of Holly Dr. is right at a 1/2 mile from the house and right past where you turn on the road is where the dishes would start to lightly vibrate with the HDC3 and by the time you reach the park which is like an 1/8 of a mile the dishes would be outright clattering. The IDMAX wouldn't vibrate the dishes like that but you can start hearing the bass, albeit faint, way before Holly Dr., I mean at least a 1/2 mile before or maybe further.
> 
> I guess it might not be saying all that much though because you can hear concerts at the festivals on the square clear as day and the squares gotta be 3 or 4 miles away at least. It's weird though because you'll hear the music super clear and then all the sudden it disappears and then comes back. And it's not because they stopped playing either because we have investigated. The acoustics in Gainesville Ga are crazy. Nothing I said seems outlandish to me so maybe I guess you would just have to see it to believe it... You know what it might have something to do with there being a large lake running through the middle of Gainseville. Its certainly not due to a lack of trees. Ive been speculating what the causes of the awesome acoustics are since I was a small child. My dad told me that the military academy used to have a lion and at night you could hear it roaring back when he was a kid and that's pretty far away, I'd say at least a mile maybe two...
> 
> Anyway I hate when people call BS on things they have no idea about.. No worries though I do it ALL THE TIME I guess I just feel ill when I'm the one whose statements are under scrutiny.


yes i agree the XXX seemed to move the car more and flex , but not hit my body or ears , or eyes, or throat or chest anywhere near as much , its hard to breathe at some notes with my IDMAX12 .Good to see you have had good results with your setup(s)
not to discredit anyone , but to say that a IDMAX CANNOT be heard a mile away or is not really that loud of sub must not have heard one a proper setup or had on and DID NOT have it set up to the better of its ability.

ALSO- the Acoustics statement is incredibly true in all scenarios because many things factor in the fact that the same note or volume or DB can be heard from say 100 yards or even 1 mile or more etc, depending on the environment- wind, cars, or even the shape or objects around the area , water can carry sound very well.

CONSIDER THIS- I currently live in a friends house , a rather large one, a mansion if u will imagine.. a tv, 2 definitive towers , and a center channel. the viewing area - couch is 10 feet from the speakers. bass is ok. I walk 20 feet from the couch. 30 feet from the speakers, to a side "pocket " in the living room, in this spot , the bass in increased nearly 5 times , and mainly boosted in the 20-40hrz range . 
acoustics ,account to ----------- ALLOT. correct PLEASE if this makes no sense, somebody.

FURTHER MORE- if i am in shopping center, for example, lets say someone is playing sounds, not that great, i walk away, walk untill i can barely hear it into the middle of the shopping center. if i continue to walk to the other end, near a wall, now the sound has something to reflect off of and now the bass sounds great. louder at a distance twice as far. AM I RIGHT ?


about 10 years ago i was at my mothers house, laying in my bed , 17 years old. passion for sounds, as always. i heard bass for a long time , interested i walked outside. could not find where it was coming from , so i proceeded to walk to the "bay" a boat launch people party at a little over a mile from the house. somehow i just knew it was my friend, 2 10w3s sealed box, toyota pickup. 
^this system was LOUD atleast for what it was, your eyes throat chest and ears would rattle . this system was NOT as loud as either of my IDmaxs in either of my cars . 

FACTS , NOT CLAIMS



hope this doesnt disturb the VERSION 4 IDMAX THREAD - however this is related and i will back up my facts anyday on my fave sub.

i joined this forum to learn , but also to help people in search of answers or opinions or facts. i believe this info is very proper for this thread ! 
for anyone wondering having never heard a IDMAX or a proper system of it , i VERY much recommend it if you are in search of LOUD and musical bass .
Subwoofers can look good on paper i do believe that SQ cannot be complety determined based upon ratings but for more so the EAR. IDMAX sounds beautiful. My MAX12 is SO LOUD , i cant wait for the 15v4


----------



## 68962

Yeah I felt like I was under stating distances and i just got on google earth to either admit i was wrong or give exact distances for my claims. Measurements taken with google earth "as a bird flies"

Here goes the IDMAX details:

House to said location where bass began to faintly be audible
(0.83miles evening/low traffic)[0.96miles night/no traffic]

HDC315 details:

House to said location where bass began to slightly rattle dishes
(0.58miles evening/low traffic)[didnt ride with bass loud at night in neighborhood]
House to said park where the dishes starting to really rattle along with windows in garage
(0.18miles evening/low traffic)[didnt ride with bass loud at night in neighborhood]

Other supporting details:

Distance of town square to house
(1.52miles)woooaaahhh i was off on that one haha!

Distance of military academy to house
(1.48miles)

Well over all i think i was pretty accurate except for the square... and i was really off on that one. 



OneSpiritBrain said:


> That IDMAX at full tilt on certain frequencies would do something weird to my ears where the bass, so AUDIBLY loud, sounded like the crash from a peel of thunder looped. It was insane.


Anyone know what i mean when i say this? Not a soft but loud boom but a damn CRASHING noise inside the truck. as i think more it may have been the roof making a noise or some kind of distortion from the vehicle vibrating...? although the crashing thunder sound was only audible inside the truck and would instantly give me a feeling of "oh **** i need to move away from that sound". i'd say the frequency was probably somewhere around 45hz.

Edit: no 45hz is too high probably more like 35hz maybe a little lower.


----------



## Hoptologist

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Anyone know what i mean when i say this? Not a soft but loud boom but a damn CRASHING noise inside the truck. as i think more it may have been the roof making a noise or some kind of distortion from the vehicle vibrating...? although the crashing thunder sound was only audible inside the truck and would instantly give me a feeling of "oh **** i need to move away from that sound". i'd say the frequency was probably somewhere around 45hz.
> 
> Edit: no 45hz is too high probably more like 35hz maybe a little lower.


Nope, when I had my IDMAX hooked up, my ears were in love and wanted to listen to it 24/7


----------



## 68962

Hoptologist said:


> Nope, when I had my IDMAX hooked up, my ears were in love and wanted to listen to it 24/7


Haha I hear you! Like I said though it was only bass lines. Bear with my memory, it's been a while and I have suffered self induced brain damage since, but I think the song that produced this awe inspiring sound was "Young Jeezy - Get Ya Mind Right". It wasn't a particularly bad noise I could just feel that it was damaging my ears..

Anyway 5 more days until I order my IDMAX15v4!!!! My god I can not wait... I'm a junkie for everything that I love


----------



## DonH

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Haha I hear you! Like I said though it was only bass lines. Bear with my memory, it's been a while and I have suffered self induced brain damage since, but I think the song that produced this awe inspiring sound was "Young Jeezy - Get Ya Mind Right". It wasn't a particularly bad noise I could just feel that it was damaging my ears..
> 
> Anyway 5 more days until I order my IDMAX15v4!!!! My god I can not wait... I'm a junkie for everything that I love


AWESOME! I think you might be the first guy on the forums with one! Check the serial number also  could be in the 1-20 :0


----------



## 68962

DonH said:


> AWESOME! I think you might be the first guy on the forums with one! Check the serial number also  could be in the 1-20 :0


Man that's so awesome! I have heard so many awesome systems consisting of such a wide range of products and my favorite by a large margin was the IDMAX12(not only my own of course). I am so excited to see and hear this new iteration of a product line that is changing how I approach car audio and in a 15" if it couldn't get any better! 

The first time I heard about Image Dynamics I was shopping around town and had googled "SuPeR lOuD SuBz" and came across a forum hailing Audioque and the likes one of which being T3 Audio. Since I live in the same county as Johnathan I thought I'd go for T3. I went to a local shop that is well known around these parts for their expertise. I asked about all of the usual SPL brands and the owner looked at me and said, "you know all those choices are great for competitions but let me tell you something, all the woofers you just mentioned are about as musical as a M-16 riffle. Have you ever heard of Image Dynamics?" I ignored his attempts to educate me and walked down the AQ road, which is not a bad one, dont get me wrong. 

After becoming very accustomed to the sound(and feel haha) of SPL oriented systems I was well set in my ways even after having heard demos of the IDMAX12. During this journey I started working as a sound engineer mixing IEMs during live performances and producing hiphop(as a hobby). These levels of SQ were something I wasnt used to and frankly wasnt aware of. The first time I put on a set of Sennheiser HD280s i knew, right away, that my whole view of music was about to change. This was set in stone as I began researching FLAT high quality headphones and stumbled upon AKG's K271MKii set of cans. After hearing people take a breath before playing their instruments I knew it was over... my love affair with SPL was over. 

I quickly sold all my audio equipment and began searching for the best SQ sub. Several brands were mentioned but one stuck out. Image Dynamics! I remembered what the owner of that shop had told me about Image Dynamics having a sub that would go toe to toe with JL's W7, which I was being sucked in by at the time. I researched the crap out of the IDMAX and decided that it was the sub i was looking for. I found a sweet deal and fell in love with car audio all over again in a whole new way!!

Fast forward a few years and my old highschool drug habit showed up at the door of my heart and proceeded to take away all my possessions and almost my beautiful wife and children. Lost my house, truck(huge wreck), and everything worth any money. I have pulled my head from my ass and now have most everything I threw away back. All except my system! 

I am so excited to have the chance to own the IDMAX once again and with this new iteration and the completion of the IDMAX15 it really is the proverbial icing on the cake of my newly rebuilt life. AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!

Hope this novel isnt considered off topic. It pertains to the IDMAX in many regards. I guess an introduction of sorts as well.

Michael


----------



## DonH

Wow mike! please stay on the straight arrow. Ive had a few friends in the past follow along that road but never made it out...


----------



## BuickGN

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Well if you figure all the speed bumps and stop signs then I guess on average or something. The beginning of Holly Dr. is right at a 1/2 mile from the house and right past where you turn on the road is where the dishes would start to lightly vibrate with the HDC3 and by the time you reach the park which is like an 1/8 of a mile the dishes would be outright clattering. The IDMAX wouldn't vibrate the dishes like that but you can start hearing the bass, albeit faint, way before Holly Dr., I mean at least a 1/2 mile before or maybe further.
> 
> I guess it might not be saying all that much though because you can hear concerts at the festivals on the square clear as day and the squares gotta be 3 or 4 miles away at least. It's weird though because you'll hear the music super clear and then all the sudden it disappears and then comes back. And it's not because they stopped playing either because we have investigated. The acoustics in Gainesville Ga are crazy. Nothing I said seems outlandish to me so maybe I guess you would just have to see it to believe it... You know what it might have something to do with there being a large lake running through the middle of Gainseville. Its certainly not due to a lack of trees. Ive been speculating what the causes of the awesome acoustics are since I was a small child. My dad told me that the military academy used to have a lion and at night you could hear it roaring back when he was a kid and that's pretty far away, I'd say at least a mile maybe two...
> 
> Anyway I hate when people call BS on things they have no idea about.. No worries though I do it ALL THE TIME I guess I just feel ill when I'm the one whose statements are under scrutiny.





loudnproud808 said:


> yes i agree the XXX seemed to move the car more and flex , but not hit my body or ears , or eyes, or throat or chest anywhere near as much , its hard to breathe at some notes with my IDMAX12 .Good to see you have had good results with your setup(s)
> not to discredit anyone , but to say that a IDMAX CANNOT be heard a mile away or is not really that loud of sub must not have heard one a proper setup or had on and DID NOT have it set up to the better of its ability.
> 
> ALSO- the Acoustics statement is incredibly true in all scenarios because many things factor in the fact that the same note or volume or DB can be heard from say 100 yards or even 1 mile or more etc, depending on the environment- wind, cars, or even the shape or objects around the area , water can carry sound very well.
> 
> CONSIDER THIS- I currently live in a friends house , a rather large one, a mansion if u will imagine.. a tv, 2 definitive towers , and a center channel. the viewing area - couch is 10 feet from the speakers. bass is ok. I walk 20 feet from the couch. 30 feet from the speakers, to a side "pocket " in the living room, in this spot , the bass in increased nearly 5 times , and mainly boosted in the 20-40hrz range .
> acoustics ,account to ----------- ALLOT. correct PLEASE if this makes no sense, somebody.
> 
> FURTHER MORE- if i am in shopping center, for example, lets say someone is playing sounds, not that great, i walk away, walk untill i can barely hear it into the middle of the shopping center. if i continue to walk to the other end, near a wall, now the sound has something to reflect off of and now the bass sounds great. louder at a distance twice as far. AM I RIGHT ?
> 
> 
> about 10 years ago i was at my mothers house, laying in my bed , 17 years old. passion for sounds, as always. i heard bass for a long time , interested i walked outside. could not find where it was coming from , so i proceeded to walk to the "bay" a boat launch people party at a little over a mile from the house. somehow i just knew it was my friend, 2 10w3s sealed box, toyota pickup.
> ^this system was LOUD atleast for what it was, your eyes throat chest and ears would rattle . this system was NOT as loud as either of my IDmaxs in either of my cars .
> 
> FACTS , NOT CLAIMS
> 
> 
> 
> hope this doesnt disturb the VERSION 4 IDMAX THREAD - however this is related and i will back up my facts anyday on my fave sub.
> 
> i joined this forum to learn , but also to help people in search of answers or opinions or facts. i believe this info is very proper for this thread !
> for anyone wondering having never heard a IDMAX or a proper system of it , i VERY much recommend it if you are in search of LOUD and musical bass .
> Subwoofers can look good on paper i do believe that SQ cannot be complety determined based upon ratings but for more so the EAR. IDMAX sounds beautiful. My MAX12 is SO LOUD , i cant wait for the 15v4


Facts??? Where is a single fact in any of that mess? Maybe it's loud at 40-50hz but that's easy. The problem here is in a sealed enclosure, how loud it can get in the lower frequencies is very easy to determine. It's just displacement, simple excursion*cone area. A single 12 even with decent excursion in a sealed enclosure is not going to blow people away, at least not in the sub bass frequencies. 

You can write all you want about parking lots and trees and dishes rattling but the displacement just isn't there to do the things you're claiming. Get it metered and then you can talk facts. Measure how loud it actually gets so you can compare to others instead of these crazy scenarios.

Facts? Really? I'm still in shock.


----------



## BuickGN

People talk about JL fanbois but I've honestly never heard or read anything like this. I think these guys would marry their subs if they could and its obvious nothing, no facts could ever change their minds that nothing will sound as good or get louder even with facts to show otherwise. It's almost creepy.


----------



## 68962

DonH said:


> Wow mike! please stay on the straight arrow. Ive had a few friends in the past follow along that road but never made it out...


I plan to! Drugs are a damn powerful illusion that, once gazed upon for a long period of time, is hard to shake. Even after years of clean living they came back and wreaked havoc. I call it an echo of the past, caused by me not properly dealing with certain things.



BuickGN said:


> Measure how loud it actually gets so you can compare to others instead of these crazy scenarios.
> 
> Facts? Really? I'm still in shock.


You're in shock.. Geez guy I'd hate to see you in a real crisis. I dont really care about the numbers, at all. The metering I prefer is real world scenarios and what it sounds like to me alone. If I cared about the numbers then I'd have 3-4 $700 alternators, 10-15K watts, and a vehicle slap full of woofers. From the looks of your nice SQ setup I don't assume you are obsessed with numbers either.

You need to understand that I am in transition from SPL to SQ right now and the IDMAX is satisfying both for me.



BuickGN said:


> People talk about JL fanbois but I've honestly never heard or read anything like this. I think these guys would marry their subs if they could and its obvious nothing, no facts could ever change their minds that nothing will sound as good or get louder even with facts to show otherwise. It's almost creepy.


LMAO creepy! Yeah a certain creepiness might have been conveyed here as I am pretty much obsessed with my sound. This made me laugh out loud and not in a condescending way. The better the product the more intense the fans will be I guess. Another +1 for ID 

I am sure that the IDMAX would have produced higher numbers on a meter simply because the HDC3 wasn't seeing anywhere near what they need to really "get loud". Plus I didn't have my IDMAX in a sealed box. I had it in a box I made tuned at about 40hz(I messed up on the port design). The box I made for the HDC3 however I did not mess up and I tuned the port to 32hz. 

Man I really am not understanding where the conflict is... Maybe you could state where your having trouble? The scenarios I was bringing up weren't crazy. The said location to house scenarios were the route I travel every single day going to and from work. I was just sharing things that I noticed were different between the two speakers. 

I don't doubt at all there are "better sounding" woofers out there, take the IDQ for example. I am just supremely impressed with IDMAXs ability to be so accurate and responsive, especially in a box that I botched, while really laying down some sound waves.

Anyway yeah what's your deal man? What's bothering you? Make a list and I'll scrutinize my claims for you. I don't want you sitting there creeped out and in shock...


----------



## loudnproud808

BuickGN said:


> Facts??? Where is a single fact in any of that mess? Maybe it's loud at 40-50hz but that's easy. The problem here is in a sealed enclosure, how loud it can get in the lower frequencies is very easy to determine. It's just displacement, simple excursion*cone area. A single 12 even with decent excursion in a sealed enclosure is not going to blow people away, at least not in the sub bass frequencies.
> 
> You can write all you want about parking lots and trees and dishes rattling but the displacement just isn't there to do the things you're claiming. Get it metered and then you can talk facts. Measure how loud it actually gets so you can compare to others instead of these crazy scenarios.
> 
> Facts? Really? I'm still in shock.:rifle:o:


*The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about , AND REFUSE TO INVESTIGATE.]*

^ i took this from a forum i think this one ..lol , used it for a cool but moron girl friend who is not open minded and ignorant as fk..

if i shot a 3 pointer and made it with my eyes closed, then that sir is a fact! it does not matter if u didnt see it , SO FACT IS- that 2 w3s can be heard from quite a distance *in a perfect scenario mind you , we are talking the most quiet night u could ever imagine* and i live in a valley so sound travels ALLOT. so image how much louder a MAX12 would be ....

if im such an idiot , then visit Honolulu Hawaii, why not ?! go to Moanalua bay , slam your sounds and walk down Kawaihae street and so on.... how is my fact not true when it actually lived this , this is actually what happened. 

its only very very easy to lie on the internet , but like 1spiritbritain said , these are not outrageous claims ....?



BuickGN said:


> People talk about JL:cwm13::cwm8::loser1::rolleyes2: fanbois but I've honestly never heard or read anything like this. I think these guys would marry :idea:their subs if they could and its obvious nothing, no facts could ever change their minds that nothing will sound as good or get louder even with facts to show otherwise. It's almost creepy.


I am busting my balls to find a sub better than the IDMAX i wish there was 1 , to my knowledge but untill i hear one thats atleast as loud (or louder) and sounds as good or better IMO , then YES sorry its the best for me , i wish i was as fortunate as some to audition 5000 different subs and hear morel, seas lotus, scanspeak, sonic sounds solutions, ETC ETC theres so much more to list in mids and highs and subs and amps ETC .. there MUST be 1000s of setups better than mine , even cheaper lesss watts, smaller sub , ETC.

really what is wrong with how impressed i am with my sub/ my own install, i will meter it , SOON. anyone got any idea how loud a MAX12 will be in general ???? keep in mind that my box(s) are not tuned for max output but more max output at a desired tuning:surprised: gee who does that ....

and i want to be the idiot. so can come here and say , with a pic, that i hit 85db with a max12 and u can tease me . honest. cuz then i can get my sub to do a hell of allot more . but really tho, i do believe i am getting allot out of not only my sub , and box , but my car and set up as a whole 

^ these claims DO NOT apply to a single Comp12, or p1.. THAT would be MORONIC. 

HERE HOWEVER , IS A GUESS, NOT OPINION - i am not a computer that measures frequencies but my sub DOES NOT seem loudest at 40-50hz IMO(opinion!!!!) wait did u see that, this is an opinion , meaning i could be totally wrong, i would say my box tuned to 32hz maxes out 40-50hz , but my box at 28hrz (my favored choice) SEEMS to be something like 32-45ish , this being an educated guess , being that i have songs that have known 32hrz notes that SLAM. this is on music ofcourse, in a fart situation i would guess it would still be loudest in these freqs we will find out..

LOOK BUDDY , JUST CUZ UR JL CANT BE HEARD A MILE AWAY , DONT BE JEALOUS :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: 
haha really tho , in the same situation the w7 if infact equal or louder to IDMAX would be heard from a mile aswell



OneSpiritBrain said:


> I plan to! Drugs are a damn powerful illusion that, once gazed upon for a long period of time, is hard to shake. Even after years of clean living they came back and wreaked havoc. I call it an echo of the past, caused by me not properly dealing with certain things.
> 
> 
> 
> You're in shock.. Geez guy I'd hate to see you in a real crisis. I dont really care about the numbers, at all. The metering I prefer is real world scenarios and what it sounds like to me alone. If I cared about the numbers then I'd have 3-4 $700 alternators, 10-15K watts, and a vehicle slap full of woofers. From the looks of your nice SQ setup I don't assume you are obsessed with numbers either.
> 
> You need to understand that I am in transition from SPL to SQ right now and the IDMAX is satisfying both for me.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO creepy! Yeah a certain creepiness might have been conveyed here as I am pretty much obsessed with my sound. This made me laugh out loud and not in a condescending way. The better the product the more intense the fans will be I guess. Another +1 for ID
> 
> I am sure that the IDMAX would have produced higher numbers on a meter simply because the HDC3 wasn't seeing anywhere near what they need to really "get loud". Plus I didn't have my IDMAX in a sealed box. I had it in a box I made tuned at about 40hz(I messed up on the port design). The box I made for the HDC3 however I did not mess up and I tuned the port to 32hz.
> 
> Man I really am not understanding where the conflict is... Maybe you could state where your having trouble? The scenarios I was bringing up weren't crazy. The said location to house scenarios were the route I travel every single day going to and from work. I was just sharing things that I noticed were different between the two speakers.
> 
> I don't doubt at all there are "better sounding" woofers out there, take the IDQ for example. I am just supremely impressed with IDMAXs ability to be so accurate and responsive, especially in a box that I botched, while really laying down some sound waves.
> 
> Anyway yeah what's your deal man? What's bothering you? Make a list and I'll scrutinize my claims for you.:lol: I don't want you sitting there creeped out and in shock...


+ 2 for ID 

WHAT IS BOTHERING OUR BUDDY :lurk::deal2::beerchug:epper::cwm8::beatnik::kid::dead_horse::rolleyes2:




:wrongforum:? no! this would make me wanna buy an IDMAXv4


----------



## rexroadj

Guys, Buick is completely right! I do believe I have touched on this in a nicer way before....Its like high school in this thread! 

Your claims sound foolish enough...but when you go on with "how" you come to it? as proof? OH DEAR!!!! It sounds absolutely ignorant and childish! You want to know how loud something is....especially vs. something else? Sorry...ONLY one way to do this. Get out the meter and call it a day. 

What you guys clearly dont seem to grasp is this:
This forum is based around science/fact and audio. Dispelling myths that cost people money, time, etc. Most of us appreciate quality items too. And the Max has always been respected on here. For great reason! I think logical and reasonable people have to respect Don for being on here and for what ID is trying to do (at least publicly...we never know what goes on behind closed door, but new stuff is trickling out so benefit of the doubt given!)

We get it.... YOU LOVE ID and especially the Max. NO ONE is on here saying its not a fantastic woofer? Just as NO ONE can say any one woofer is the BEST. 
IF you really care about supporting ID and or your love affair with your subs......then figure out a way to do it that doesnt actually take credibility away from the company you supposedly love. Passion is WONDERFUL! and I am certain its completely appreciated by ID. As it should be. But its the way you guys present things that is actually causing more harm then good. At least on this site. Not to be harsh but you guys just sound like ignorant, immature, children. And I dont think that is what you guys really wish to convey. 
But remember this....if you wish to stick around here and learn, as I believe it will be very beneficial. Know that the absolute vast majority does not care about how far away your sub or any sub is heard. Thats not what were mostly about here. And that same vast majority also cares about provable facts. Provable meaning scientific proof of a statement. 
You have declared you do not require that to make your assumptions. That is perfectly fine. You have that right. Just know that this is not the place where that will ever be well received so either take it somewhere else, or be prepared to not only disrupt the basis of this entire forum, but to also be met with extreme resistance. I dont think thats worth it for either side? 

Anywho....... Good Job ID. I look forward to quality, qualified, and substantial reviews of your new products and wish you success. 

Guys, just clean up the act in here....show some maturity and knowledge/understanding. It goes VERY far on here!


----------



## schmiddr2

Threads dedicated to subs sometimes get people talking about showoff level loudness. Thank you all for participating in the forum, but it's not helpful to most anyone here to know whether it can be heard 10ft or a mile. CACO on the other hand, demands to know such things.


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## DonH

schmiddr2 said:


> Threads dedicated to subs sometimes get people talking about showoff level loudness. Thank you all for participating in the forum, but it's not helpful to most anyone here to know whether it can be heard 10ft or a mile. CACO on the other hand, demands to know such things.


 oh so very true. We appreciate all the support guys but lets keep this thread from a pissing match please. I would greatly appreciate it.


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## [email protected]

Subbed for research.....


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## quality_sound

[email protected] said:


> Subbed for research.....


If you want to subscribe but not contribute, click on "Thread Tools" then click on "Subscribe". Man I hate when I see "Sub'd" in a thread.


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## loudnproud808

rexroadj said:


> Guys, Buick is completely right! I do believe I have touched on this in a nicer way before....Its like high school in this thread!
> 
> Your claims sound foolish enough...but when you go on with "how" you come to it? as proof? OH DEAR!!!! It sounds absolutely ignorant and childish! You want to know how loud something is....especially vs. something else? Sorry...ONLY one way to do this. Get out the meter and call it a day.
> 
> What you guys clearly dont seem to grasp is this:
> This forum is based around science/fact and audio. Dispelling myths that cost people money, time, etc. Most of us appreciate quality items too. And the Max has always been respected on here. For great reason! I think logical and reasonable people have to respect Don for being on here and for what ID is trying to do (at least publicly...we never know what goes on behind closed door, but new stuff is trickling out so benefit of the doubt given!)
> 
> We get it.... YOU LOVE ID and especially the Max. NO ONE is on here saying its not a fantastic woofer? Just as NO ONE can say any one woofer is the BEST.
> IF you really care about supporting ID and or your love affair with your subs......then figure out a way to do it that doesnt actually take credibility away from the company you supposedly love. Passion is WONDERFUL! and I am certain its completely appreciated by ID. As it should be. But its the way you guys present things that is actually causing more harm then good. At least on this site. Not to be harsh but you guys just sound like ignorant, immature, children. And I dont think that is what you guys really wish to convey.
> But remember this....if you wish to stick around here and learn, as I believe it will be very beneficial. Know that the absolute vast majority does not care about how far away your sub or any sub is heard. Thats not what were mostly about here. And that same vast majority also cares about provable facts. Provable meaning scientific proof of a statement.
> You have declared you do not require that to make your assumptions. That is perfectly fine. You have that right. Just know that this is not the place where that will ever be well received so either take it somewhere else, or be prepared to not only disrupt the basis of this entire forum, but to also be met with extreme resistance. I dont think thats worth it for either side?
> 
> Anywho....... Good Job ID. I look forward to quality, qualified, and substantial reviews of your new products and wish you success.
> 
> Guys, just clean up the act in here....show some maturity and knowledge/understanding. It goes VERY far on here!


i agree, its just hard when someone who must be educated aswell , desides to piss on me and say that i am making false claims , i am not claiming to hit 170db with 1 12 idmax i would expect u guys to want to see #s , and maybe that is impossible im sure its nearly impossibe to even acheive 150db with a single max..... 
its just in this statement where i said i can hear it a mile away , how do u want me to explain it , except for the fact that it did happen. but im wrong just because u say i am .?

OR- only 160db and up can be heard from a mile ?

i disagree . i stated that in a perfect situation it can be a heard a mile away. *consider if you had a giant warehouse or gym that was a mile long. are you saying that it CANNOT be heard by that distance in an enclosed area with no wind or traffic or road noise etc*. i say yes. if u can agree to that , then imagine a perfect scenario in real world testing.
on an average day/night, i can be heard from nearly 1/3 maybe half mile ,this is in a basic test , a non perfect scenario, no valley , no silent night , but a good one. with allot of wind , im lucky to be heard from 100 yards.. DB means one thing but the Situation its presented in is another.

anyway no disrespect to anyone , but if someone goes so far as to sht on me and call me a liar about something thats a fact , sorry i cant help it if it actually happened , i cant change that , its true , i dont know how one can argue against that . just had to express my feelings how i saw fit , i wasnt the one coming on here calling nobody a liar for no good reason. 

anyway , i will meter my MAX12 , both of them , and i hope u guys see it as fairly good. not claiming to even have THE BEST single max12 set up..at all. its awesome to me, THATS IT. 

AND- does anyone know what kinda #s i should be seeing out of a single max 12 ?


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## miniSQ

quality_sound said:


> If you want to subscribe but not contribute, click on "Thread Tools" then click on "Subscribe". Man I hate when I see "Sub'd" in a thread.


i think of "sub'd" as just another way to "like" something. If i can borrow from facebook. Just like the head nod you would give someone as you pass them.


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## rexroadj

loudnproud808 said:


> i agree, its just hard when someone who must be educated aswell , desides to piss on me and say that i am making false claims , i am not claiming to hit 170db with 1 12 idmax i would expect u guys to want to see #s , and maybe that is impossible im sure its nearly impossibe to even acheive 150db with a single max.....
> its just in this statement where i said i can hear it a mile away , how do u want me to explain it , except for the fact that it did happen. but im wrong just because u say i am .?
> 
> OR- only 160db and up can be heard from a mile ?
> 
> i disagree . i stated that in a perfect situation it can be a heard a mile away. *consider if you had a giant warehouse or gym that was a mile long. are you saying that it CANNOT be heard by that distance in an enclosed area with no wind or traffic or road noise etc*. i say yes. if u can agree to that , then imagine a perfect scenario in real world testing.
> on an average day/night, i can be heard from nearly 1/3 maybe half mile ,this is in a basic test , a non perfect scenario, no valley , no silent night , but a good one. with allot of wind , im lucky to be heard from 100 yards.. DB means one thing but the Situation its presented in is another.
> 
> anyway no disrespect to anyone , but if someone goes so far as to sht on me and call me a liar about something thats a fact , sorry i cant help it if it actually happened , i cant change that , its true , i dont know how one can argue against that . just had to express my feelings how i saw fit , i wasnt the one coming on here calling nobody a liar for no good reason.
> 
> anyway , i will meter my MAX12 , both of them , and i hope u guys see it as fairly good. not claiming to even have THE BEST single max12 set up..at all. its awesome to me, THATS IT.
> 
> AND- does anyone know what kinda #s i should be seeing out of a single max 12 ?


Good God man.....Your just not going to get it are you? 
NO one gives a **** about how far away anyone thinks they heard something! Take it elsewhere. And he didnt **** on you either. You have no basis for your outlandish and completely uneducated statements. Why did he say what we probably all wanted to? Because the **** show was getting completely ridiculous from you and the other person. 

STOP with the BS about what you "hear" and distances heard etc..... NO ONE CARES ON HERE!!!! Either provide something here or educate here.... 
other wise your just :dead_horse: in the :wrongforum:


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## BuickGN

quality_sound said:


> If you want to subscribe but not contribute, click on "Thread Tools" then click on "Subscribe". Man I hate when I see "Sub'd" in a thread.


We actually agree on something. 

Even worse is when they type "unsubscribed" out of anger.


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## quality_sound

BuickGN said:


> We actually agree on something.
> 
> Even worse is when they type "unsubscribed" out of anger.


That's been happening more and more lately, Matt. 

That kinda scares me. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## BuickGN

loudnproud808 said:


> LOOK BUDDY , JUST CUZ UR JL CANT BE HEARD A MILE AWAY , DONT BE JEALOUS :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
> haha really tho , in the same situation the w7 if infact equal or louder to IDMAX would be heard from a mile aswell


The W7 has more displacement whether it's xmax or xmech so yes, it will be louder in the lower frequencies, you can't argue that.

I don't want to be heard a mile away, that's why I stripped the interior and added damper and sound blocking material. I'm not some juvenile kid and even when I was I thought people that pulled up with the subs blasting where I couldn't carry a conversation were beyond retarded. I probably would have turned your system down for you back then. 

You're right, my JL probably can't be heard from far at all considering I don't have a single JL sub or speaker in the car. I have a pair of 15s, each one has slightly more displacement than a Max 12 but more efficient. Output will be similar down low but the 15s will annihilate the Max in the higher frequencies. I'm pretty well aware of what the Max 12 is capable of, I've heard plenty of them. They sound good and get loud but not the kind of loud you brag about. 

Everyone on the board probably knows I like JL and Dynaudio and I may even have a bias lol. I believe in subjective tests and opinions when talking sound quality, probably more than most and I've been criticized for it. But... I also want data. I've sent in two pair of brand new Dynaudio speakers to be Klippel tested so I can have that data. When talking SPL, I don't know why opinions exist. It's too easy to measure and prove what's louder. The whole trees and football fields and warehouses and all the other BS exists to avoid a direct comparison and prevent any factual data. If you do that you can never lose.

Why don't you see if Erin has any free time to Klippel a Max. This would clear up any xmax discrepancies as well.


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## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> If you want to subscribe but not contribute, click on "Thread Tools" then click on "Subscribe". Man I hate when I see "Sub'd" in a thread.


I actually did both because I was on my way out the door and didn't know if a reply auto subscribed me to this thread. On some forums, replying won't subscribe you.


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## cubdenno

Don,

You might consider sending a 15 to Josh at Data-Bass.com
Data-Bass

He does performance testing and based on his findings can really "get your name out there". A lot of the DIY home theater folks are always looking for a high displacement sub. 

Getting the measurements will be key. Having them done the same way as all the others allows a better method of comparison kind of an apples to apples sort of thing. Also any forms of inductance management engineered into the motor? What is the Le? I have always assumed it was lower than say your normal subs out there due to the love for easily matching to the midbass'.


Also, when bikinpunk gets settled and back at measuring stuff on the klippel, I suggest contacting him as well. Having those measurements will also go a long way to bringing in more potential customers. Would love to see the distortion profile on thses things!!


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## 68962

I think we all need to calm down a little. 

I wasn't upset, maybe a little ill, when I was assumed to be dishonest. I was just stating the differences I noticed between my SQ oriented setup in contrast to the SPL setup I was running prior. 

I was told that what I said could not be when in reality I experienced it to be so. Therefor I tried my best to backup my claims to the best of my ability and since I don't have access to a db meter I guess I should have just left it alone.

I am in transition from SPL to SQ and I can't help but be excited about the differences between the two. I also value real world scenarios such as hearing distance because like I said I don't have any other way to make measurements.

So anyway please consider that I am new to this forum and was unaware of the scientific appreciation of its members. I will adjust the delivery of my ideas, experiences, and opinions accordingly. 

Edit: Maybe the IDMAXs "loud" is the type I want to brag about ergo my bragging on it  I get it though, this isnt the place to brag about such things in the manner of which I did so. Forgive me!

Back to the topic.

I see that the IDMAX15s "audiophile" ported box recommendation is 4ft^3 gross. So after displacements that's 3.5ft^3 net volume. The trunk is huge on my Legend(KA7) so I'm pretty sure I can make it happen. 

I'm not exactly educated on the effect on performance a box will create outside of ported vs sealed. I know a little about infinite baffle effects but one thing I do not understand is the expected difference between the recommended ported box size and the "audiophile" ported box size. 

I assume I will gain frequency response in the lower range and maybe roll off or loose output in the higher range?

I guess my question is, for this particular woofer, in regard to it's t/s values, what can I expect to see going with the larger ported "audiophile" enclosure? Also considering the impedance rise trunks cause and also that this woofer and it's enclosure will be living there, which size ported enclosure would be better for output? My thought is that with bigger boxes comes less power handling but at the same time trunks generally raise the reactive impedance the amp sees so wouldn't it be better to have as large an enclosure as is feasible? 

Maybe I am confused about box rise... Isn't it true that a well braced large ported box will cause less rise than a well braced smaller ported box?

How is the IDMAX going to fair in this particular situation, in a trunk, larger ported vs reccomended ported?


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## kizz

I don't want to come off as an a-hole and I apologize ahead of time, but every time i read "it rattles the dishes in the house from such and such distance away" I literally laughed out loud. Quite amusing I must say.


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## loudnproud808

rexroadj said:


> Good God man.....Your just not going to get it are you?
> NO one gives a **** about how far away anyone thinks they heard something! Take it elsewhere. And he didnt **** on you either. You have no basis for your outlandish and completely uneducated statements. Why did he say what we probably all wanted to? Because the **** show was getting completely ridiculous from you and the other person.
> 
> STOP with the BS about what you "hear" and distances heard etc..... NO ONE CARES ON HERE!!!! Either provide something here or educate here....
> other wise your just :dead_horse: in the :wrongforum:


look i was just saying that my Max gets loud , and someone had a problem with how i used my example , wich is true. sorry, all u guys telling me that it didnt happen doesnt change the fact. i mentioned the 'distance " thing because someone had earlier and had others saying it was impossible , i dont see how that makes me uneducated or how these claims are outlandish 

anyway i have no means of carrying this on so u can believe what u want to or not who cares right? like i said just mentioning my own experiences if u think im idiot , fine , awesome. 



BuickGN said:


> The W7 has more displacement whether it's xmax or xmech so yes, it will be louder in the lower frequencies, you can't argue that.
> 
> I don't want to be heard a mile away, that's why I stripped the interior and added damper and sound blocking material. I'm not some juvenile kid and even when I was I thought people that pulled up with the subs blasting where I couldn't carry a conversation were beyond retarded. I probably would have turned your system down for you back then.
> 
> You're right, my JL probably can't be heard from far at all considering I don't have a single JL sub or speaker in the car. I have a pair of 15s, each one has slightly more displacement than a Max 12 but more efficient. Output will be similar down low but the 15s will annihilate the Max in the higher frequencies. I'm pretty well aware of what the Max 12 is capable of, I've heard plenty of them. They sound good and get loud but not the kind of loud you brag about.
> 
> Everyone on the board probably knows I like JL and Dynaudio and I may even have a bias lol. I believe in subjective tests and opinions when talking sound quality, probably more than most and I've been criticized for it. But... I also want data. I've sent in two pair of brand new Dynaudio speakers to be Klippel tested so I can have that data. When talking SPL, I don't know why opinions exist. It's too easy to measure and prove what's louder. The whole trees and football fields and warehouses and all the other BS exists to avoid a direct comparison and prevent any factual data. If you do that you can never lose.
> 
> Why don't you see if Erin has any free time to Klippel a Max. This would clear up any xmax discrepancies as well.


understandable , like i said the w7 is probly louder with them both in peak performance , i myself just havent heard 1,obviously the 7 has more displacement and the setups i heard must had been lacking somewhere ,i understand there are many man subs out there louder than the max. i have always known that.

i am not ur idiot bass head , maybe to you i am less experienced , I AM here to learn , and ask questions, and YES i too stripped my roof ,doors ,rear deck ,back seat , mirrors(they rattled altima 2005 sedan)
, and bumper that rattled like hell too! With the windows up , my system cannot be heard from too far , but when i want to i can roll my windows down and party , open my doors and the whole block is like a club. and sounds clean, everyone is having fun so no, nobody turns the music down , they love it. 

i would assume you soundproof car , would go from silent to very loud , possibly louder than mine ( assuming yours is louder than mine on the inside, wich IM SURE it is) if you opened your doors and or had your windows down. am i right ? 

so no im not as educated of some of you on hear , and correct me if im wrong but does every thing need to be measured ? Do SQ comps get chosen the winner by a computer or by judges ? for real because i do not kno, but i would assume AN EAR. 
i wish i did have an instrument or a meter to back up my claims but i dont , i dont see how SPL metering IN my car would tell u how loud it sounds - *outside the car*. more so- the car itself and the environment . i dont see how i am wrong on this. but i would like to meter my MAX and have wanted to , when i do ill post it and my instal(s) , wich are not THAT pretty but sound good and im glad i did it myself ! 

remember , i am not on an spl forum, it took me years to decide where i shud be , and i had dreamed of ID since the MAXs realese back in like 2001? I had not ever had the chance to get one until a few years ago , i like it more than my alpines,rockfords, etc or anything to my experience .. 

I AM an SQ guy, BUT i do need it to atleast be able to get to a certain level of loudness , because i like to ride with the windows open on the freeway ! and road noise is then an issue despite 100sqft of rammatt and a bunch of ensolite! and remember i have 1 12 for a reason ! space, power, price, etc, i i wanted to i would have 3 12s , but i dont. and your 2 15s must sound awesome aswell , i would love to experiment with dyn both subs and mids/highs but i dont got the money yet! SQ over loudness, then loudness to a certain extent :thumbsup:


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## 68962

kizz said:


> I don't want to come off as an a-hole and I apologize ahead of time, but every time i read "it rattles the dishes in the house from such and such distance away" I literally laughed out loud. Quite amusing I must say.


What made me crack up good was BuickGN saying "it's almost creepy". I enjoy these quibbles. You get to see people on a deeper level when riled. Good stuff  

I'm glad you got some type of enjoyment from it  It really did happen and I know why. The garage, which is beside the kitchen, accumulated the sound waves and transferred enough accumulated energy to vibrate the dishes. Not too wild... Of course I may have hallucinated the whole thing  

Can we all chill out and move on? Please...

I sure didn't intend on derailing the **** out of this thread... 

Let's get back to it!


----------



## WTF1978

I just looked at the specs for the idmax 12 and the idmax 15. Can anyone tell me why the 12 has a lower in car f3 then the 15? I'm kind of new to the spec side of things but not new to car audio. Doesn't this mean the 12 will play lower in car?


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## 68962

F(x): The "F" specifies the frequency where you will see a drop in db and the (x) specifies the amount of lost SPL in db's. It's where you will start seeing your output roll off. So the lower the F3 the lower frequency response before roll off.


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## 68962

Yeah looks like ported or IB is the way to go for the IDMAX15. I wonder what poly filling the large sealed enclosure would result in... Does WINSID calculate ploy fill? I don't remember it doing so but then again I wouldn't ever have been trying to calculate the effects of poly fill...

I plan on a large ported enclosure for sure.


----------



## DonH

From personal testing, the MAX15 ported in 4ft^3 @ 33hz was beauty to my ears. on about 1100 watts 

-Don


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## 68962

DonH said:


> From personal testing, the MAX15 ported in 4ft^3 @ 33hz was beauty to my ears. on about 1100 watts
> 
> -Don


I bet it was 

My personal choice always leans towards ported enclosures. People say the bass is "tighter" or more "accurate" in a sealed enclosure but in reality they're experiencing a lack of sound stage from their mid bass drivers, assuming there are any...

An incredible task to give a SUBwoofer is to reproduce both sub bass and mid bass. IB would give the woofer the best chance at even trying to accomplish such a task.


----------



## cubdenno

OneSpiritBrain said:


> I bet it was
> 
> My personal choice always leans towards ported enclosures. People say the bass is "tighter" or more "accurate" in a sealed enclosure but in reality they're experiencing a lack of sound stage from their mid bass drivers, assuming there are any...
> 
> An incredible task to give a SUBwoofer is to reproduce both sub bass and mid bass. IB would give the woofer the best chance at even trying to accomplish such a task.


Bass in a vehicle is INCREDIBLY easy to obtain due to cabin gain. The reason Sealed/IB systems are the choice for SQ in a car is that they are easy to plan/design, the response with the natural 12db/oct roll off corresponds very nicely with cabin gain. The lower bass (<60 hertz) does not overwhelm the midbass drivers. So your example is backwards. In a ported enclosure the flat response or bump in response often seen in tuning, gives overwhelming low bass response in a vehicle. This overwhelms the smaller midbass drivers and often gives that "slow or muddy) sound.


----------



## cubdenno

DonH said:


> From personal testing, the MAX15 ported in 4ft^3 @ 33hz was beauty to my ears. on about 1100 watts
> 
> -Don


Don, did you notice my post above? I really believe to draw in more people and find new market avenues, have third party testing would behoove your company. Just the DIY home theater crowd alone would be a lot more units out the door with those 15's!!!


----------



## 68962

cubdenno said:


> Bass in a vehicle is INCREDIBLY easy to obtain due to cabin gain. The reason Sealed/IB systems are the choice for SQ in a car is that they are easy to plan/design, the response with the natural 12db/oct roll off corresponds very nicely with cabin gain. The lower bass (


----------



## 68962

cubdenno said:


> Bass in a vehicle is INCREDIBLY easy to obtain due to cabin gain. The reason Sealed/IB systems are the choice for SQ in a car is that they are easy to plan/design, the response with the natural 12db/oct roll off corresponds very nicely with cabin gain. The lower bass (


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## 68962

Seriously....? My post length has been limited? No wonder everyone left...


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## cubdenno

You have my attention. What were you gonna say?


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## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> From personal testing, the MAX15 ported in 4ft^3 @ 33hz was beauty to my ears. on about 1100 watts
> 
> -Don


i noticed on the website that there is a 4ft^3 @ 27 hrz , urs was the same at 33hrz, so maybe the box would be a little bigger for the 27hrz ? 

anyway my 12 is in a 2.5 @ 28hrz and i love the sound of it , BUT- when it hits those very low freqs sometimes i dont feel it as much , this is why i was interested in the 15maxv4 because i feel like it will have enough output and in the larger box tuned to 27hrz will hit those low notes with more authority than a single 12. i would assume that the higher tuning of 33hz would be more "musical" , but i preferred the lower tuning on my 12 ( 28 vs 32hz) so i have such a good feeling about this 15 tuned real low 

im hoping to achieve greater output and more authority deep down low , from what i can see i would say its for sure , what do u say Don ?


----------



## BuickGN

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Seriously....? My post length has been limited? No wonder everyone left...


What do you mean, I've never heard of that.


----------



## DonH

cubdenno said:


> Don, did you notice my post above? I really believe to draw in more people and find new market avenues, have third party testing would behoove your company. Just the DIY home theater crowd alone would be a lot more units out the door with those 15's!!!


I see it now, this is def. something to contemplate. we are going to try and get klippel testing of all our drivers done in the near future before CES 2014


----------



## file audio

I purchased the idmax12 yesterday.. questions there are any differences with the v4 version how do I know what version are mine? Tjose need to break in? Tjose are new..


----------



## miniSQ

file audio said:


> I purchased the idmax12 yesterday.. questions there are any differences with the v4 version how do I know what version are mine? Tjose need to break in? Tjose are new..


Image Dynamics IDMAX v4 Car Subwoofer | CES 2013 - YouTube


----------



## G POUNDER

Hello all!! Came across this discussion while trying to find legit info on the max 15's. All I was able to find were the mixed publishings of specs as already noted in this thread. Despite the confusion, I went ahead and ordered a pair of the 15's. They should be here by Thurs Fri of this week. What I need is some advice on a good SQ amp that can doo close to 3k @ 1ohm and some help with a box. ALWAYS ran ported except for my Eclipse Titanium 15. By my numbers, I can definitely fit a box to accommodate 2 of them sealed 2.5 each after all displacements, however I do love the low end of a low tuned ported box. Need to know if 3k will be enough if I go sealed. Car is a '98 Accord Coupe... Big trunk but crappy lay out. Hopin for ID to chime in here as these things cost me ALOT to get them shipped here to Canada. Any additional info needed, please don't hesitate to ask.


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## G POUNDER

Forgot to mention that, budget for the amp is roughly $1000 at most, depending on shipping and all... Thanks!


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## DonH

In all honesty, Running two of our q1200.1's would be a solid choice for amplification to your MAX15's! heck we love all Image installs! BUT if i could recomend a great amplifier for them i would choose an amplifier from ZAPCO capable of that power. Not sure of their current lines out

*also to those curious about a INDUSTRY ACCEPTED one way XMAX rating on the 15 is 25.3mm to allow for a 3% third-harmonic distortion. That is 85% of BL*

*for the 10" and 12" MAX its 21.925mm one way @ 85%BL
*

*For 70% BL the MAX 15" is 28.6mm one way and 10"/12" is 25.35mm*

I HOPE this helps those in question


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## 04silverz

With that bufget theres lots of options
Willing to go used? Must be one amp or two smaller?

Also is your electrical up to par for 3k watts?


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## G POUNDER

Thanks Don for clearing that up and your amp suggestion. I do prefer the idea of a single amp as opposed to pairing or strapping. Ordered D4 coils so a single amp would be my preference. As for my electrical, it isn't too bad... Currently running a Sundown SAZ 1500 Dv3 and have no issues. Previously ran a pair of Audison Srk 1's strapped, also with no issues. Yellow Top up front with Big3 and 0awg OFC wire and Kinetik HC2400 in the trunk run off a 110 amp alt. Could be better but for now it does the job. I prefer to buy new unless its a ridiculous deal on something used. Also, I've read here about the sub being ported but the EBP calculator I used, showed this sub being much better for sealed. Did I miss something about porting these??


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## 68962

DonH said:


> *For 70% BL the MAX 15" is 28.6mm one way and 10"/12" is 25.35mm*


Good lord!!!


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## file audio

I purchased a new idmax 12 one week ago. How much time for break in? It indeed sounds better than ny previous subs included 12w6v2 12w7 kicker s mtx punch s etc.. but I can hear its sounding weird on longer excursion. .? Its on 1.3 cu sealed box ..need a bigger?


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## DonH

sounding weird how so? is the surround buckling?


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## minbari

file audio said:


> I purchased a new idmax 12 one week ago. How much time for break in? It indeed sounds better than ny previous subs included 12w6v2 12w7 kicker s mtx punch s etc.. but I can hear its sounding weird on longer excursion. .? Its on 1.3 cu sealed box ..need a bigger?


with a 12" in such a small box and 750 watts on hand. I bet you are running out of power. if you have your DSP eq boosted on a sub band even 3db, that will mean you only have about 350 watts for other freq.


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## file audio

DonH said:


> sounding weird how so? is the surround buckling?


Sound is clacking on stronger hits.. but its getting better the sq...dont know how t o explain


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## miniSQ

file audio said:


> Sound is clacking on stronger hits.. but its getting better the sq...dont know how t o explain


Is the box 100% sealed? How did you verify this? Also maybe post a video?


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## file audio

minbari said:


> with a 12" in such a small box and 750 watts on hand. I bet you are running out of power. if you have your DSP eq boosted on a sub band even 3db, that will mean you only have about 350 watts for other freq.


Then the sealed is forcing the jl amp 750 hd? I need to port but im looking for s.q. its mith ealed box is more quality oriented? I most simply make one bigger sealed?


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## quality_sound

file audio said:


> Sound is clacking on stronger hits.. but its getting better the sq...dont know how t o explain


Clacking is the voice coil former hitting the magnet. Simply, you're overdriving the piss out of it.


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## MBorgardt

file audio said:


> I purchased a new idmax 12 one week ago. How much time for break in? It indeed sounds better than ny previous subs included 12w6v2 12w7 kicker s mtx punch s etc.. but I can hear its sounding weird on longer excursion. .? Its on 1.3 cu sealed box ..need a bigger?


 1.3 cuft is to small of a box.... does this number include the displacement of the driver?


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## minbari

file audio said:


> Sound is clacking on stronger hits.. but its getting better the sq...dont know how t o explain


Then it is not too little power as i first thought. As others said, simply over driving it

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## file audio

minbari said:


> Then it is not too little power as i first thought. As others said, simply over driving it
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


well...... i order a custom sealed box to 1,8 cu bigger and sealed,,,, its a myth? that sealed has more quality? i found some forums where people claim having so much better and impreved sound ua.ity on ported boxes... ,,let me tell you I have had somany subs , from almost every brand and alwAYS using those for over a 2 weeks one month then sold them,, but it seels that the idmax is the one that can give that clean deep bass I was looking for... in the 12w7 for example I can hear the suspension noise,, that I dont like,, the w6 I find it underpowered,,, it will be amazing to have a cdt audio 1220 at 750 rms but they only are 500rms subs,,, utopia is out of budget and dmax its gona be perfect I can feel it,,, ILL TELL YOU WHEN i TRY THE new box at 1.8cu


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## miniSQ

where did you order the new box from? And where did you get the first box from? I still am not giving up on my comment earlier that you may not have a proper "seal" A leaky box will also give you that clacking sound.


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## minbari

.....and yes, it id a myth that sealed is inherently mote sq

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## loudnproud808

file audio said:


> well...... i order a custom sealed box to 1,8 cu bigger and sealed,,,, its a myth? that sealed has more quality? i found some forums where people claim having so much better and impreved sound ua.ity on ported boxes... ,,let me tell you I have had somany subs , from almost every brand and alwAYS using those for over a 2 weeks one month then sold them,, but it seels that the idmax is the one that can give that clean deep bass I was looking for... in the 12w7 for example I can hear the suspension noise,, that I dont like,, the w6 I find it underpowered,,, it will be amazing to have a cdt audio 1220 at 750 rms but they only are 500rms subs,,, utopia is out of budget and dmax its gona be perfect I can feel it,,, ILL TELL YOU WHEN i TRY THE new box at 1.8cu



im sure every speaker has a different break in period , and im not sure what the average amount of hours that may be , but ofcourse there is a method to go about while in your break in period. 2 weeks in my experience wasnt enough , when i first got my 2nd Idmax for another car i put it in a 2.5 @ 28hrz and i honestly thought it sounded great but wasnt anywhere near as loud as my other one in 2.0 @ 32hrz.. i was kinda dissapointed , but everyday after that for about 2 months my sub started to get louder and louder and deeper better SQ i could really feel the notes , better than the smaller box @32hrz , moves more air and havent metered the 2 but i think the 2.5 @ 28 is louder to the ears atleast and definitly with the deeper bass and is felt more.. your Max should keep getting louder and improve SQ for a little while longer..

about the sound u hear , i originally had my 1st idmax (12v3) in a 1.3 sealed , and at higher volumes i wanted to watch the excursion but was kinda sad that when it really moved it made an akward noise , not sure what , but if i closed the trunk and went in the car i could not hear it at all.. in a ported box it does not make that noise or is atleast much harder to . the sealed box seems to make it much easier to push it to its max excursion and beyond , and BTW i had mine on a Soundstream stealth1200.1 , so like 1200rms , not sure what the real rating would be , any one care to say ? anyway i got a MAX12 for each of my cars and both have a soundstream stealth1200 on them and they eat it no problem  i had been told i could put 1500rms if it was really clean power , i plan on doing that with a really nice amp and everything for my future 15v4:biggrinflip:

and i would def atleast try the ported box for a single sub setup , sealed and ported are beauty if done rite ,sealed does sound better but my ported box at 28hrz has better low freq extension where i want it and overall more output wich is what i want out of my single sub setup, i prefer my ported box for a single but then again i do dream of 3 12Max's sealed in a truck!


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## BuickGN

file audio said:


> well...... i order a custom sealed box to 1,8 cu bigger and sealed,,,, its a myth? that sealed has more quality? i found some forums where people claim having so much better and impreved sound ua.ity on ported boxes... ,,let me tell you I have had somany subs , from almost every brand and alwAYS using those for over a 2 weeks one month then sold them,, but it seels that the idmax is the one that can give that clean deep bass I was looking for... in the 12w7 for example I can hear the suspension noise,, that I dont like,, the w6 I find it underpowered,,, it will be amazing to have a cdt audio 1220 at 750 rms but they only are 500rms subs,,, utopia is out of budget and dmax its gona be perfect I can feel it,,, ILL TELL YOU WHEN i TRY THE new box at 1.8cu


I've never heard any suspension noise in the W6 or W7 subs even when pushed way beyond xmax. That's one of the things I really like about them. I could pop the trunk with the W7 pushing a good 3" of excursion and the motor and suspension are nearly perfectly quiet and I'm talking a 16hz test tone that you can barely hear. The IDMax that I heard IB had quite a bit of suspension noise when pushed hard (xmax and beyond). It almost seemed to be coming from the surround and I did notice the surround was wrinkling which I imagine can and probably will make noise. 

I'm not trying to start the JL vs ID debate again but I had cometely different results with those subs. Are you sure it was suspension noise with the W7?

The W6 you mentioned as being underpowered, that would be an amp problem, not the sub.


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## RNBRAD

I think several things come into play here that can cause or exacerbate suspension noise. First off suspension noise will get better as the suspension brakes in, that's a given. This can take many hours. Also box dampening has played a role for me in audible suspension noise. It may just be dampening it's audibility but I have noticed an improvement using some form of dampening. I use 1" pyramidal acoustic foam and polyfill. Another thing is basket alignment. Many sub baskets can be ever so slightly tweaked on install, such as just 1 screw tighter than another. That's all it takes. If they get a little out of alighment, suspension noise can be created or exagerated. Check these things out to make sure it's not solely the sub. 

On a side note, I have had baskets create a resonant noise when mounted straight to MDF with no seal. ID is one of those company's that does not place a foam seal. Anyway, some things to think about.


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## DonH

RNBRAD said:


> I think several things come into play here that can cause or exacerbate suspension noise. First off suspension noise will get better as the suspension brakes in, that's a given. This can take many hours. Also box dampening has played a role for me in audible suspension noise. It may just be dampening it's audibility but I have noticed an improvement using some form of dampening. I use 1" pyramidal acoustic foam and polyfill. Another thing is basket alignment. Many sub baskets can be ever so slightly tweaked on install, such as just 1 screw tighter than another. That's all it takes. If they get a little out of alighment, suspension noise can be created or exagerated. Check these things out to make sure it's not solely the sub.
> 
> On a side note, I have had baskets create a resonant noise when mounted straight to MDF with no seal. *ID is one of those company's that does not place a foam seal. Anyway, some things to think about*.


WE DO NOW! This was one of my biggest pet peeves as a consumer before I worked at ID. I brought this up and beat it to death, now all Sub woofers come with a foam gasket to be placed onto the driver by the owner.


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## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> WE DO NOW! This was one of my biggest pet peeves as a consumer before I worked at ID. I brought this up and beat it to death, now all Sub woofers come with a foam gasket to be placed onto the driver by the owner.


thats a nice little addition ,good to here that


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## 68962

BuickGN said:


> I've never heard any suspension noise in the W6 or W7 subs even when pushed way beyond xmax. That's one of the things I really like about them. I could pop the trunk with the W7 pushing a good 3" of excursion and the motor and suspension are nearly perfectly quiet and I'm talking a 16hz test tone that you can barely hear.


I have always been able to hear the W7(never the W6) fluttering during low end extension. I doubt most people would even notice it but I sure did. Now my old max12v3 when I had it sealed would start making a much more noticeable noise as soon as the surround started to buckle. Now ported I cant hear any suspension noise from the W7 or Max.



RNBRAD said:


> I think several things come into play here that can cause or exacerbate suspension noise. First off suspension noise will get better as the suspension brakes in, that's a given. This can take many hours. Also box dampening has played a role for me in audible suspension noise. It may just be dampening it's audibility but I have noticed an improvement using some form of dampening. I use 1" pyramidal acoustic foam and polyfill. Another thing is basket alignment. Many sub baskets can be ever so slightly tweaked on install, such as just 1 screw tighter than another. That's all it takes. If they get a little out of alighment, suspension noise can be created or exagerated. Check these things out to make sure it's not solely the sub.
> 
> On a side note, I have had baskets create a resonant noise when mounted straight to MDF with no seal. ID is one of those company's that does not place a foam seal. Anyway, some things to think about.


I just saw this post. No wonder you have awesome results.. I am seriously considering acoustic foam as a lining for my future box.

Michael


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## 68962

DonH said:


> WE DO NOW! This was one of my biggest pet peeves as a consumer before I worked at ID. I brought this up and beat it to death, now all Sub woofers come with a foam gasket to be placed onto the driver by the owner.


I saw that with my IDMAX15! Thank you!


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## G POUNDER

Guy's, I just received my Max 15's yesterday and about to have a box built. I keep reading here that ported is the way to go (which is normally what I do) but these subs seem better suited for sealed. Will I be missing out on output with a pair of them sealed or should I try to port them? Looking for SQL here. Current set up consists of a DC lvl 4 15" in net 3.2 cubes tuned @ 28Hz. Sounds INCREDIBLE and LOUD.... Just looking for a lil more output and figured sealing a pair of these would very well out do my single 15 ported. Am I wrong??


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS

G POUNDER said:


> Guy's, I just received my Max 15's yesterday and about to have a box built. I keep reading here that ported is the way to go (which is normally what I do) but these subs seem better suited for sealed. Will I be missing out on output with a pair of them sealed or should I try to port them? Looking for SQL here. Current set up consists of a DC lvl 4 15" in net 3.2 cubes tuned @ 28Hz. Sounds INCREDIBLE and LOUD.... Just looking for a lil more output and figured sealing a pair of these would very well out do my single 15 ported. Am I wrong??


On the same power, I'm willing to bet the single Lvl 4 15 ported would walk all over 2 ID Max 15's sealed. A ported box typically yields a 6db boost in the passband. You are giving that up and in theory only gaining 3db by doubling cone area. What you gain by adding cone area and motor force is efficiency. Port them if you are looking for a little more output on the same amount of power.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## 68962

Ported 15's in the trunk of a LS is going to be a feat though.

How many wrms are you working with?


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## loudnproud808

both have very valid points , ported will be much louder and i cant say for sure but 1 DC lv4 ported may very well be louder than 2 15v4s sealed . altho 2 15v4s sealed would sound awesome ,so will they ported and for sure be louder than your current set up. my 2 cents


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## file audio

sealed would sound awesome ,so will they ported and for sure be louder than your current set up. my 2 cents[/QUOTE]

Tnx for your response an recomending sealed or ported enclosure. .by Monday i will receive a 1.8 sealed enclosure.. Ill let you know what happened. . Yes the sound is getting better time to time that akward noise you mention is the one I was talking about. Only in the trunk ..maybe it need the foam pads in the bessel ring the basket ..i hope that sound goes with break in or I resemble the sub again. I recone it with a new ..that sound it's not an issue at all. Just waiting for break in.. every day I realize how easy is to compete and have good spl but..for SQ. 4 years with this project and im not satisfied yet.. mayne its my deaf soul hehe or the audio vice. But I know how hard i have tried and still not convinced


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## G POUNDER

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Ported 15's in the trunk of a LS is going to be a feat though.
> 
> How many wrms are you working with?


Actually, they will be going into a '98 Accord Coupe and by changing the shape of the box I will be able to fit around 6cubes net and possibly a lil more if necessary. In terms of power I am a lil up in the air... Already have a Sundown Saz 1500d v3 and matching Sax 125.4 but will need more power. subs are d4's so strapping is not an option. Torn between the Zapco Z-3k along with the matching Z- 150.4 or just upgrade to a Saz 2500d v2. If I go sealed, may need about 3k to get loud. Also getting what I consider to be a good deal on the Zapco's. Gotta make this decision by end of day today so any input or suggestions are welcome!!


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## G POUNDER

Hertz5400LincolnLS said:


> On the same power, I'm willing to bet the single Lvl 4 15 ported would walk all over 2 ID Max 15's sealed. A ported box typically yields a 6db boost in the passband. You are giving that up and in theory only gaining 3db by doubling cone area. What you gain by adding cone area and motor force is efficiency. Port them if you are looking for a little more output on the same amount of power.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


 Thanks for the opinion. Was kinda thinkin the same but HOPING I was wrong. It will not be the same power. Will be roughly 2x the power I have now and pretty sure it will do the trick. If it doesn't then I will know , ported would yield the results I am looking for (after an additional $300) for yet, another damn enclosure...LOL


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## BuickGN

G POUNDER said:


> Actually, they will be going into a '98 Accord Coupe and by changing the shape of the box I will be able to fit around 6cubes net and possibly a lil more if necessary. In terms of power I am a lil up in the air... Already have a Sundown Saz 1500d v3 and matching Sax 125.4 but will need more power. subs are d4's so strapping is not an option. Torn between the Zapco Z-3k along with the matching Z- 150.4 or just upgrade to a Saz 2500d v2. If I go sealed, may need about 3k to get loud. Also getting what I consider to be a good deal on the Zapco's. Gotta make this decision by end of day today so any input or suggestions are welcome!!


Have you considered infinite baffle. I would go ported but if you decide on sealed, why not do IB instead? Same output with far less power, they will dig deep and have better cone control while taking up very little trunk. My pair of 15s in my TL get louder than I would ever need and the Max15 has nearly double the displacement of mine. Plus you don't have to buy another enclosure.


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## loudnproud808

BuickGN said:


> Have you considered infinite baffle. I would go ported but if you decide on sealed, why not do IB instead? Same output with far less power, they will dig deep and have better cone control while taking up very little trunk. My pair of 15s in my TL get louder than I would ever need and the Max15 has nearly double the displacement of mine. Plus you don't have to buy another enclosure.


not trying to get off the topic at all , but are saying that a 12max IB will be just as loud as it was sealed but dig deeper and be more efficient ?


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## G POUNDER

BuickGN said:


> Have you considered infinite baffle. I would go ported but if you decide on sealed, why not do IB instead? Same output with far less power, they will dig deep and have better cone control while taking up very little trunk. My pair of 15s in my TL get louder than I would ever need and the Max15 has nearly double the displacement of mine. Plus you don't have to buy another enclosure.


Thanks, but I have never heard an IB set up or what setting up my trunk for that would entale... Judging by what I have read so far, looks like I will be going ported. Probably gonna hve to invert them and use aero ports to make it work though. Not 100% sure on that till I get back to the drawing board. Since I will be going ported, wouldn't I be able to get away a lil less power or should I still give em more than they need?


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## BuickGN

loudnproud808 said:


> not trying to get off the topic at all , but are saying that a 12max IB will be just as loud as it was sealed but dig deeper and be more efficient ?


Yes but with an asterisk lol. 

So in the lower notes, you're usually limited in SPL by the displacement of the sub, cone area*excursion, unless it hits its thermal limits before its excursion limits. So if you have two identical subs playing a 30 hz tone... Say the sealed one takes 1500w to hit xmax and the IB sub takes 500w to hit xmax. If both subs have the same amount of excursion, both will have the same output regardless of how much power is being fed into it. The lower frequencies require a ton of extra power to reproduce compared to IB. The air spring reduces efficiency and REDUCES cone control. It sounds the opposite of what you would think but without the air spring the motor has more control over the control. 

Where things aren't so clear is when you get higher in frequency. You're not going to hit xmax or anywhere close to it with a 15" sub at 50-60hz. So while the IB sub is limited to say 500w because it will hit its mechanical limits at 30hz on 500w, the sealed sub can be fed more power because you won't have to worry about bottoming it on the lower notes. The sealed box also reduces cone control, increasing overshoot from the air spring giving you a little more output at the same power on some frequencies. That's not the way I want to get my output but many do it. 

This can easily be overcome by using a subsonic filter. With the subsonic filter you're reducing excursion at the low frequencies so you can feed it more power in the higher frequencies where excursion is not a limitation. You still get the improved efficiency and cone control while retaining your trunk and being able to run full power on it. The only thing you lose is the lowest notes but its no worse than sealed is with no subsonic filter. 

If set up right it's a win-win. The only downside is a slight loss of efficiency in the bass area, usually 50-60hz but that's easy to add back in with EQ. Plus you will probably like the flatter response of IB without any EQ. 

You need to make sure the trunk is reasonably sealed from the cabin or you can get cancellation but it doesn't have to be air tight, just the large leaks need to be sealed.


----------



## BuickGN

G POUNDER said:


> Thanks, but I have never heard an IB set up or what setting up my trunk for that would entale... Judging by what I have read so far, looks like I will be going ported. Probably gonna hve to invert them and use aero ports to make it work though. Not 100% sure on that till I get back to the drawing board. Since I will be going ported, wouldn't I be able to get away a lil less power or should I still give em more than they need?


I agree the ported sounds like the best thing for you. Just throwing IB out there if you decide to go sealed.


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## G POUNDER

BuickGN said:


> I agree the ported sounds like the best thing for you. Just throwing IB out there if you decide to go sealed.


Much appreciated chief! Always open to suggestions. Also looks like im gonna pull the trigger on those Zapco's tonight. Anyone here have any first hand experience with them... Over priced??


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## 68962

BuickGN said:


> Yes but with an asterisk lol.
> 
> So in the lower notes, you're usually limited in SPL by the displacement of the sub, cone area*excursion, unless it hits its thermal limits before its excursion limits. So if you have two identical subs playing a 30 hz tone... Say the sealed one takes 1500w to hit xmax and the IB sub takes 500w to hit xmax. If both subs have the same amount of excursion, both will have the same output regardless of how much power is being fed into it. The lower frequencies require a ton of extra power to reproduce compared to IB. The air spring reduces efficiency and REDUCES cone control. It sounds the opposite of what you would think but without the air spring the motor has more control over the control.
> 
> Where things aren't so clear is when you get higher in frequency. You're not going to hit xmax or anywhere close to it with a 15" sub at 50-60hz. So while the IB sub is limited to say 500w because it will hit its mechanical limits at 30hz on 500w, the sealed sub can be fed more power because you won't have to worry about bottoming it on the lower notes. The sealed box also reduces cone control, increasing overshoot from the air spring giving you a little more output at the same power on some frequencies. That's not the way I want to get my output but many do it.
> 
> This can easily be overcome by using a subsonic filter. With the subsonic filter you're reducing excursion at the low frequencies so you can feed it more power in the higher frequencies where excursion is not a limitation. You still get the improved efficiency and cone control while retaining your trunk and being able to run full power on it. The only thing you lose is the lowest notes but its no worse than sealed is with no subsonic filter.
> 
> If set up right it's a win-win. The only downside is a slight loss of efficiency in the bass area, usually 50-60hz but that's easy to add back in with EQ. Plus you will probably like the flatter response of IB without any EQ.
> 
> You need to make sure the trunk is reasonably sealed from the cabin or you can get cancellation but it doesn't have to be air tight, just the large leaks need to be sealed.


So basically if you are going to be attentive with your EQing, not just tuning to it to what "sounds right" but actually checking for over extension on the lower end, there's no reason to go sealed. You have me reconsidering going ported... thanks...

Check your PM please sir... I must know more from you because you explain it well.

Edit: your inbox is full... I want to inquire of your IB knowledge. Email would be easier as I'm always on my phone and tapatalk sucks... [email protected] thanks man


----------



## cubdenno

Just for the record, there is less cone control running IB verses sealed. there is no resistive air load running IB or rather in car, there is much much much less.

Again, running IB has some very tangible benefits.
No box. 
less power to reach speaker mechanical limits
Like sealed, far easier to integrate with existing midbass drivers for a smoother transition.



Now as for the extension, and I am speaking about music here, I have felt with the correct enclosure design, ported tuned low is more effortless than sealed or IB. There is just less cone movement for a given spl of the low frequencies.


----------



## 68962

cubdenno said:


> Just for the record, there is less cone control running IB verses sealed. there is no resistive air load running IB or rather in car, there is much much much less.
> 
> Again, running IB has some very tangible benefits.
> No box.
> less power to reach speaker mechanical limits
> Like sealed, far easier to integrate with existing midbass drivers for a smoother transition.
> 
> 
> 
> Now as for the extension, and I am speaking about music here, I have felt with the correct enclosure design, ported tuned low is more effortless than sealed or IB. There is just less cone movement for a given spl of the low frequencies.


Sheesh okay, I am like a wave tossed about in the oceans of inexperience. 

So for the IDMAX15, ID reccomends 4ft^[email protected] If I tune below that 27Hz what can I expect to see as far as F3.... You know what, a better question would be is WINSID the best software or is there something better?

Thank you!


----------



## minbari

cubdenno said:


> *Just for the record, there is less cone control running IB verses sealed. there is no resistive air load running IB or rather in car, there is much much much less.*
> 
> Again, running IB has some very tangible benefits.
> No box.
> less power to reach speaker mechanical limits
> Like sealed, far easier to integrate with existing midbass drivers for a smoother transition.
> 
> 
> 
> Now as for the extension, and I am speaking about music here, I have felt with the correct enclosure design, ported tuned low is more effortless than sealed or IB. There is just less cone movement for a given spl of the low frequencies.


not true at all. in a pure IB alignment the cone will only do exactly what the amplifier drives it to do. It doesnt have to fight against an air spring. (which has more and more resistance the more you compress it)


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## cubdenno

With IB there is no security blanket of the rear chamber to control the woofer. And you are exactly correct, the motor is the only thing keeping the woofer in check. So it is far easier to overdrive the IB mounted woofer. 

take your standard house/hip hop/rap/high bass content music listener. One who is used to the output of a 35 hz and up tuned ported enclosure and a kw+ amp. 

Have them go IB. Now when they are used to certain outputs and they are not hearing it, I don't care "how smooth" the lower octaves are, they are going to crank the volume knob/bass boost/etc to get the impact they are used to. Without doing a free air test to determine where mechanically the woofer has it's limits, most will find that overdriving their speakers is a very real occurance.


----------



## minbari

cubdenno said:


> With IB there is no security blanket of the rear chamber to control the woofer. And you are exactly correct, the motor is the only thing keeping the woofer in check. So it is far easier to overdrive the IB mounted woofer.


so instead of 1000 watts to drive it, I can get away with 250 watts. I dont see that as a downside. it you need the safety blanket of an overly damped enclosure, then you certainly dont want ported either.


> take your standard house/hip hop/rap/high bass content music listener. One who is used to the output of a 35 hz and up tuned ported enclosure and a kw+ amp.
> 
> Have them go IB. Now when they are used to certain outputs and they are not hearing it, I don't care "how smooth" the lower octaves are, they are going to crank the volume knob/bass boost/etc to get the impact they are used to. Without doing a free air test to determine where mechanically the woofer has it's limits, most will find that overdriving their speakers is a very real occurance.


I didnt say that people with no sense would not be able to destroy subs. those kinds of people blow up subs in sealed boxes too. anyway, this is a bit OT for the thread.


----------



## cubdenno

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Sheesh okay, I am like a wave tossed about in the oceans of inexperience.
> 
> So for the IDMAX15, ID reccomends 4ft^[email protected] If I tune below that 27Hz what can I expect to see as far as F3.... You know what, a better question would be is WINSID the best software or is there something better?
> 
> Thank you!


I would have to model it first and just haven't to be honest.

Great modeling software
Hornresp
AKABAK

both free but requires some good understanding. Well worth it to learn.


Here is the thing, and I am not against you running IB or sealed or ported. The first thing is to determine what you are exactly looking for in response and what you are willing to give up/compromise. If you are a high bass content listener and enjoy that then fine!! that doesn't mean you can't have "SQ" out of the same box type. If you want that "Audiophile" curve that gives up output for an in car flatter curve, then sealed or IB is the way to go.

I tell you that IB is the flavor of choice for your application and you rock a ton of power without determining your woofers mechanical limits before mounting and you keep cranking until you break a driver. A particularly high dollar driver, then you are going to be pissed at me and rightfully so. Especially since I am unsure of what you are exactly going to be using to power and your listening habits/expectations.

IB is truly the easiest to implement with just a baffle board installation. And for music with a small amount of power you can really maximize the output of the woofer. You can up the potential power input using a high pass filter anywhere from 20-30 hertz and get more output potential. Again though you have to use common sense and do some pre installation testing to get the most security for your woofs!


Going ported, lets you extend the f3 out past where a sealed or IB install would start to occur. Port "high" and your 40-60 hertz range can get really bloated and definitely overwhelm what you have driving the other frequencies. Tuning lower extends the curve while potentially offering something similar to the sealed while also offering less excursion down low.


It really comes down to listening preference and output expectations. Coupled to space limitations in the car. One design is only superior to another when you factor in those items. And as always, common sense and a basic understanding of what is going on is always a good thing!!


----------



## BuickGN

cubdenno said:


> Just for the record, there is less cone control running IB verses sealed. there is no resistive air load running IB or rather in car, there is much much much less.
> 
> Again, running IB has some very tangible benefits.
> No box.
> less power to reach speaker mechanical limits
> Like sealed, far easier to integrate with existing midbass drivers for a smoother transition.
> 
> 
> 
> Now as for the extension, and I am speaking about music here, I have felt with the correct enclosure design, ported tuned low is more effortless than sealed or IB. There is just less cone movement for a given spl of the low frequencies.


Nope. There is more cone control with IB. The airspring causes overshoot and less cone control. It decreases efficiency but that's not the same as cone control.


----------



## cubdenno

BuickGN said:


> Nope. There is more cone control with IB. The airspring causes overshoot and less cone control. It decreases efficiency but that's not the same as cone control.


If it was true IB, I would be more inclined to agree, or if the woofer specs were geared specifically for Big sealed vs a "cover all bases" approach.

heck this should make sense to you with the AE "car specific IB' design vs the IB design they sell vs one designed to be used in a ported enclosure.

the motor design then should make zero difference if IB mounted then. or suspension for that matter.


edit: hell maybe my understanding is off on IB. I will be the first to admit it. I just don't think in car, IB offers any benefits sonically that the other designs don't have other than low power and no box.


----------



## minbari

cubdenno said:


> If it was true IB, I would be more inclined to agree, or if the woofer specs were geared specifically for Big sealed vs a "cover all bases" approach.
> 
> heck this should make sense to you with the AE "car specific IB' design vs the IB design they sell vs one designed to be used in a ported enclosure.
> 
> the motor design then should make zero difference if IB mounted then. or suspension for that matter.


yes, but if you have a sub that is designed for a ported box, the qts and xmax will not be conducive for IB (which is just sealed in an infinitely large box)


> *edit: hell maybe my understanding is off on IB. I will be the first to admit it. I just don't think in car, IB offers any benefits sonically that the other designs don't have other than low power and no box.*


totally agree. that _is_ the benefit! 
Ported boxes have always been my favorite. more efficient than sealed, flatter response, if tuned correctly. and you dont need monster amounts of xmax.


----------



## G POUNDER

GREAT info here fella's!! Learning things I've never payed attention to that much... Just awesome!! To anyone with experience, what kind of results in terms of sound and out put can expect if I were to build a smaller than optimum ported box for my pair of Max's tuned around 28hz? Bare in mind that I will have ample power as I just purchased a Zapco Z-3k and will be ran at a ohm load producing 3k rms. Was thinking more like 2.25-2.5 net internal. Also don't know if anyone has noticed but ID's website recommended box specs are listed as GROSS and NOT net... Is this correct? Don, If your still around, would love to here from you on this one!


----------



## minbari

best bet is to model it. usually if you make a ported box a little too small it will get peak somewhere in the response. It will also move the response up in overall freq. (not tuning)


----------



## cubdenno

And make the port a potential nightmare to get in the box. High displacement woofers require large area ports. Small boxes require longer ports for the same tune.


----------



## G POUNDER

Ok, I hear what you guys are saying, however I have no idea how to build or model boxes and working 3 jobs to support my family and afford this audio addiction, leaves me literally no time to attempt learning how. Now the reason I originally posed this question is because I have been through MANY subs as I'm sure many of you have. A while back I had an SSA Xcon 15 in a smaller than optimal box and it sounded great! I finally had a proper box built for it and found that it was not as loud as the smaller lower tuned box. And recently had a Sundown SA-15 in an optimal ported box and sounded good. Sold it to a friend of mine who stuck it in a much smaller box with a crappy tube for port and I'll be damned but it sounds better in that box in his crappy set up than it did in mine! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? That's why have been considering going smaller on the ported enclosure. Anyone else experience something similar?


----------



## loudnproud808

G POUNDER said:


> Ok, I hear what you guys are saying, however I have no idea how to build or model boxes and working 3 jobs to support my family and afford this audio addiction, leaves me literally no time to attempt learning how. Now the reason I originally posed this question is because I have been through MANY subs as I'm sure many of you have. A while back I had an SSA Xcon 15 in a smaller than optimal box and it sounded great! I finally had a proper box built for it and found that it was not as loud as the smaller lower tuned box. And recently had a Sundown SA-15 in an optimal ported box and sounded good. Sold it to a friend of mine who stuck it in a much smaller box with a crappy tube for port and I'll be damned but it sounds better in that box in his crappy set up than it did in mine! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? That's why have been considering going smaller on the ported enclosure. Anyone else experience something similar?



depending on the sub i guess. in some situations in limited space you would be better off with 2 10s in a larger ported enclosure vs 2 12s in the same size box but what would be smaller for the 12s with the same tuning especially a deeply tuned 1. My Max12 gets MUCH more output in the deeper tones in a 2.5ft box tuned to 28hrz VS in a 2.0ft box at 32 hrz... i could not imagine how it would sound with a 2.0ft bow tuned to 28 it just would not sound rite. im no expert so this in theory, but like i said i dont see how that would sound good. if space is the issue and u need 15s, i would say a proper sealed box would be much better than a incorrect ported one. in my experience i have heard ported boxes not made to spec that make good speakers sound HORRIBLE.


----------



## G POUNDER

loudnproud808 said:


> depending on the sub i guess. in some situations in limited space you would be better off with 2 10s in a larger ported enclosure vs 2 12s in the same size box but what would be smaller for the 12s with the same tuning especially a deeply tuned 1. My Max12 gets MUCH more output in the deeper tones in a 2.5ft box tuned to 28hrz VS in a 2.0ft box at 32 hrz... i could not imagine how it would sound with a 2.0ft bow tuned to 28 it just would not sound rite. im no expert so this in theory, but like i said i dont see how that would sound good. if space is the issue and u need 15s, i would say a proper sealed box would be much better than a incorrect ported one. in my experience i have heard ported boxes not made to spec that make good speakers sound HORRIBLE.


You know what? I honestly think your right. Gonna do a sealed box first and see how it is before I keep hurting my head over this. After all, both my Eclipse Titanium and my older XXX both sounded awesome sealed and they were used as single drivers and now we are talking about a pair so it should be great!!!


----------



## loudnproud808

G POUNDER said:


> You know what? I honestly think your right. Gonna do a sealed box first and see how it is before I keep hurting my head over this. After all, both my Eclipse Titanium and my older XXX both sounded awesome sealed and they were used as single drivers and now we are talking about a pair so it should be great!!!


as much as i prefer my max12 in a ported , i do miss it sealed just as much. again this is a single sub set up so i need a certain amount of output . however if i had 2 12s i would probly still go ported!  LOL true story , because sh*t i would get 2 to get more output ! however if i had 3, there would be no need for ported there it would be over kill for me. So , if i had 1 15maxv4 i would port it in a large enclosure tuned to 27hrz ! and that is what i will do in the near future , however if i had 2 15s i would run sealed it would be more than enough output FOR ME, and sound so damn good. I cant see how u would not absolutely LOVE 2 max15v4s in a proper sealed box , i would make sure to get it damn 100% perfect it aint hard since its sealed , where as compared to running ported with the issues u may run into as you had mentioned before. If u can fit a 9ft square box in ur ride with 2MAXv4 15s tuned to 27hz THEN DO IT but seeing as u are limited to more like 4-5ft then i say sealed is unmatched in this application , or i guess also IB , but i cant say being i have no experience with IB. 

Good luck , put it together already more than interested in how it turns out for a SQL system ! Meter that ish for us , and remember they will need some time to break in aswell


----------



## G POUNDER

loudnproud808 said:


> as much as i prefer my max12 in a ported , i do miss it sealed just as much. again this is a single sub set up so i need a certain amount of output . however if i had 2 12s i would probly still go ported!  LOL true story , because sh*t i would get 2 to get more output ! however if i had 3, there would be no need for ported there it would be over kill for me. So , if i had 1 15maxv4 i would port it in a large enclosure tuned to 27hrz ! and that is what i will do in the near future , however if i had 2 15s i would run sealed it would be more than enough output FOR ME, and sound so damn good. I cant see how u would not absolutely LOVE 2 max15v4s in a proper sealed box , i would make sure to get it damn 100% perfect it aint hard since its sealed , where as compared to running ported with the issues u may run into as you had mentioned before. If u can fit a 9ft square box in ur ride with 2MAXv4 15s tuned to 27hz THEN DO IT but seeing as u are limited to more like 4-5ft then i say sealed is unmatched in this application , or i guess also IB , but i cant say being i have no experience with IB.
> 
> Good luck , put it together already more than interested in how it turns out for a SQL system ! Meter that ish for us , and remember they will need some time to break in aswell


Trust me I'm workin on it brotha... Decided to go sealed as I had originally planned. Just got confirmation that the new amps are shipping out today. Box will be built this weekend. If all goes well, system will be complete and installed by next weekend. Wish I could do a build log but my 3 jobs leave me almost no time for anything else. That being said, once the system is done I will take pics and post them along with specific details of the set up and the performance and sound of the new subs. I have a great ear for music and detail so the review should make for a good read! Thank you to all who inputted on this thread for the great info and suggestions. Stay tuned!!!


----------



## DonH

any other questions guys?


----------



## file audio

DonH said:


> any other questions guys?


the idmax was reconed yesterday it was well centered there's a clack sound on high excursion I didn't stick the rubber foam round frame.. it must be attached or not? even with the issue this is the best sounding sub I have listened.. I'm too picky and I have tried so many subs


----------



## DonH

What level of excursion? Is the surround at its limits? If so thats due to overdriving it and coil rock


----------



## file audio

DonH said:


> What level of excursion? Is the surround at its limits? If so thats due to overdriving it and coil rock


nope I don't think is the surround at his limits I'm powering with a jl audio 750hd at 60% gain anyway I'm using a sealed enclosure 1.4ft³ but today I'm going to pick up a new one ported. I must tell you that my concern is SQ. but I'm reading that ported boxes are noisy. and a myth what's your professional opinion about this and idmax how react with both?


----------



## .69077

No real contribution to this thread other than I love my IDQ12. 

1.0cf sealed running off the sub channel on a JL HD900/5. Sounds great.


----------



## file audio

m249saw said:


> No real contribution to this thread other than I love my IDQ12.
> 
> 1.0cf sealed running off the sub channel on a JL HD900/5. Sounds great.


I don't have lots of money but destiny is good with me, it brought me an idq12 new to my hands and I'm going to check it out for sure.. in the same sealed box and ported.. maybe I don't need 1000rns from the idmax. but I just want to know which one sound the best with 750rms cleanest and SQ wise will win.. time cause I'm in the breakin process with idmax


----------



## G POUNDER

DonH said:


> any other questions guys?


As a matter of fact, I do have a couple questions. Box is complete and I was able to net 5.3cf after all displacements in a sealed application for my pair of 15's. What is the best way to break in these subs without damaging them and roughly how long before I can REALLY put some power to them and have them sounding their best? CANNOT afford to damage these things!!! Also plan on doing a review here for everyone and wondering if it would be a fair one without sufficient break in period or still worth doing off of initial listening.


----------



## loudnproud808

G POUNDER said:


> As a matter of fact, I do have a couple questions. Box is complete and I was able to net 5.3cf after all displacements in a sealed application for my pair of 15's. What is the best way to break in these subs without damaging them and roughly how long before I can REALLY put some power to them and have them sounding their best? CANNOT afford to damage these things!!! Also plan on doing a review here for everyone and wondering if it would be a fair one without sufficient break in period or still worth doing off of initial listening.



for me atleast i would guess that everyone would want to know how it sounds rite out of the box , i for one am extremely curious as to how they will sound.. I am not sure what the experts will tell u on break in period , but for me i listen to them often on low to medium levels but also like to test out and push the limits , how ever as the days go by i push the limits more , as appose to the first day i may push it but for maybe a matter of seconds or minute , where as day 30 i will be pounding away. U shud notice a great difference thru out break in period and become more confident in your subs. think of a water balloon , u stretch it real good before u intend on filling it up to its max. but dont stretch it toooo much from the start, gradually increase.. thats what i do anyway


----------



## DonH

Moderate levels for two weeks then pound away on them man!


----------



## 68962

I put my bat on a 30a charger and leave it playing low volume at 40Hz 2min 50Hz 2min 60Hz 2min on repeat for the first 3 nights while I'm asleep. Then for the next 7 nights I play 25Hz 2min 30Hz 10min 40Hz 20min 50Hz 20min. Then after about a week of moderate levels a slowly work up to full tilt on music. Has worked great for the last two subs and studio cans.


----------



## edouble101

file audio said:


> the idmax was reconed yesterday it was well centered there's a clack sound on high excursion I didn't stick the rubber foam round frame.. it must be attached or not? even with the issue this is the best sounding sub I have listened.. I'm too picky and I have tried so many subs


Check if the dust cap is completely glued to the cone


----------



## BuickGN

I've never broken my speakers or subs in. Just playing music on them and enjoying them will break them in. I would have to imagine the vast majority of the break in on the mechanical parts is done very quickly, in hours. Those that break them in over months, are you worried about hurting something when you go full power?


----------



## loudnproud808

BuickGN said:


> I've never broken my speakers or subs in. Just playing music on them and enjoying them will break them in. I would have to imagine the vast majority of the break in on the mechanical parts is done very quickly, in hours. Those that break them in over months, are you worried about hurting something when you go full power?


after a month i will push it to the extremes for hours at a time. In the first day i would not just leave it playing at this level, however these to levels are different , i dont know if theres an actual test to prove this but for example my max12 in a 2.5 @ 28hrz i was not so impressed SPL wise on the first day , pushing it to the point of distortion , then turning down a bit , it was not much if at all louder than in a sealed.. so i thought the trade off was that great for a low tuned box and that i had lost out allot on overall SPL . everyday after that for about a month it got LOUDER and tighter , deeper , everything improved. overall please someone share on this if u have the same experience , but day 1 compared to day 30 i would say was a HUGE difference , from being somewhat dissapointed to being fully blown away by what a single 12 can do.. for me atleast..


----------



## G POUNDER

OneSpiritBrain said:


> I put my bat on a 30a charger and leave it playing low volume at 40Hz 2min 50Hz 2min 60Hz 2min on repeat for the first 3 nights while I'm asleep. Then for the next 7 nights I play 25Hz 2min 30Hz 10min 40Hz 20min 50Hz 20min. Then after about a week of moderate levels a slowly work up to full tilt on music. Has worked great for the last two subs and studio cans.


Im liking this idea, however, is it possible to maybe cut the time down by doing 3 nights of 25-30-40 and 50 for about 5-20 mins on those tones or too harsh to quick. Your talking in or out of box?


----------



## G POUNDER

loudnproud808 said:


> for me atleast i would guess that everyone would want to know how it sounds rite out of the box , i for one am extremely curious as to how they will sound.. I am not sure what the experts will tell u on break in period , but for me i listen to them often on low to medium levels but also like to test out and push the limits , how ever as the days go by i push the limits more , as appose to the first day i may push it but for maybe a matter of seconds or minute , where as day 30 i will be pounding away. U shud notice a great difference thru out break in period and become more confident in your subs. think of a water balloon , u stretch it real good before u intend on filling it up to its max. but dont stretch it toooo much from the start, gradually increase.. thats what i do anyway


Normally, this would be standard for me as well but keep hearing about these not being able to handle power and all kinds of surround issues and things like that. Just wanna be COMPLETELY sure about what kind of daily abuse these can take cuz I intend to abuse the hell out of 'em and and get the the very most that I can out of them. Don't wanna keep questioning if they can take more or will the surround buckle on certain notes or anything. Most of the subs I have dealt with prior to these have been built to handle like tanks! Though I don't at all doubt the build on these are very stout, just not sure they are made to withstand the same abuse as my previous subs. Also don't really do moderate either... usually all or nothing as I love my system up LOUD!


----------



## BuickGN

Why play 20-50hz test tones? Why not just 20hz? If all you're doing is loosening the suspension I don't see the need for something that's going to have little excursion.


----------



## 68962

BuickGN said:


> I've never broken my speakers or subs in. Just playing music on them and enjoying them will break them in. I would have to imagine the vast majority of the break in on the mechanical parts is done very quickly, in hours. Those that break them in over months, are you worried about hurting something when you go full power?


To be honest I think your right regarding subs. For me I think it's a little OCD coming out. I know with the full range drivers in a nice pair of headphones the sound keeps changing for 100's of hours of burn in. I've heard stories of the lack of proper burn in causing damage to subs but I have no idea of the science behind it. Glue setting by the movement of the speaker doesn't make sense either unless the motion causes the glue to further cure. Maybe the vc adhesive is what is being referred to...?


----------



## 68962

Yeah and I'm in for some listening reviews on the IDMAX15! Mine is just sitting there taunting me


----------



## boosted2.7

DonH said:


> any other questions guys?


Any new news on the shallow mount subs?


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> any other questions guys?


i have a question , that really is important too me - Earlier in the thread u had mentioned about the XS comps , my question would be if there are any thoughts on plans for a 3 way XS set , and also an XS8 . I know that in theory the XS69 would be the same thing as an 8 , but i would much rather have an 8 in my door (also easier to put in IMO) and would look much better also IMO because it will blend in better for a stock look... how ever i do absolutely love the 6x9s for the rear and being a comp 6x9 set is awesome.. 

so the question is - Does ID have any plans as to the components anywhere ?


----------



## tyroneshoes

I also have a question re the xs comps. The passive, does it even have a lp for the woofers? What is the crossover point and slope?


----------



## thehatedguy

No, there is no XO on the midbass, only on the tweeters...or that's the way they were when they were designed.


----------



## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> No, there is no XO on the midbass, only on the tweeters...or that's the way they were when they were designed.


Yep, the XS v.1 Xover has no LP on the midbass. 
Depends which Xover type you have (v.1 or v.2) - got a pic of your passive? Coz v.2 has a LP setting for the midbass. 

Kelvin


----------



## minbari

subwoofery said:


> Yep, the XS v.1 Xover has no LP on the midbass.
> Depends which Xover type you have (v.1 or v.2) - got a pic of your passive? Coz v.2 has a LP setting for the midbass.
> 
> Kelvin


Are you sure? When did v2 come out? Eric sent me replacements for my xs65 set when he was still there. (So couple years )

No lp on the mb

sent from my phone using digital farts


----------



## subwoofery

minbari said:


> Are you sure? When did v2 come out? Eric sent me replacements for my xs65 set when he was still there. (So couple years )
> 
> No lp on the mb
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


Affirmative  

I've got 2 x XS manuals here - 1 with the lowpass setting explanation and one, well, without 

Here's a pic of the v.2: 







<-- found this pic from a 2008 thread 









And this is probably the passive you have: 









Kelvin


----------



## minbari

Yup, the top 2 pics are what got replaced with the bottom 2 pics.

Eric said the top ones were not a good sounding xover and to chuck it. The old ones did have Lp for the midbass, new ones do not

I still have it. (That is the old one)









sent from my phone using digital farts


----------



## subwoofery

So the no LP one is the new version? Interesting, I though it was the other way around... 

Kelvin


----------



## loudnproud808

ok i have another itch and its this - I noticed that the FS on the 12maxV4 is 27.7hz and that the 12v3 is 20hz , now being that im still trying to be an audio genius , I AM NOT , BUT does this mean that the V4s will not be as deep and the v3s?

to further interest me is this - the "Audiophile" ported box is 2.25qft tuned to 30hz with a -3db of 28hz , where as the 12v3 is 2.0sqft tuned to 32 with a -3 db of 20hz , or 2.55sqft tuned to 28hz with a - 3 of 18hz(my current enclosure for my 12v3) 
^ so this leads me to believe that if i got a 15v4 that it wouldnt do as much of what i am wanting ( wich is more deep bass , mainly in the 20-30hz range ) and that i would be better off going with 2 12v3s tuned deeper in a larger box.. BUT I CANT FIT THAT ! a have a max of about 4cubes to work with so 1 15v4 would be perfect fit.

^ this is the same story for the IDqs

However the IDv3 12 has a FS of 20hrz and goes nicely into a 2sqft. So my question would be would i get better DEEP bass out of these than the MAXv4s.. 2 12idv3s in 4ft or 1 15v4 in a 4ft same size , BUT i know the 15v4 may have more overall output but i just like the thought of being fairly flatline response from 40-20hz , the graphs of the v4s VS the maxV3s differ greatly and also the IDv3s 

of course im just going on what i think i know , So this is why i ask. And i need to because i was originally so atrracted to IDMAX back like 10 years ago beacuse of its DEEEEEP bass claims and freq response down to 5hz claims and such  wich i dont see anymore.

So are we working with the same deep subs or are the old graphs wrong or does all that mean squat  PLEASE ! I need to know


----------



## 68962

@loudnproud808

Post what you had(idmax12v3), box and everything. Also post what your going to do(idmax15v4), box and everything. I'll model the theoretical outputs in isd for you.


----------



## loudnproud808

OneSpiritBrain said:


> @loudnproud808
> 
> Post what you had(idmax12v3), box and everything. Also post what your going to do(idmax15v4), box and everything. I'll model the theoretical outputs in isd for you.


i honestly forget if its a dual 2 or dual 4... its been awhile , and i always remebered it being a dual 2 , but then the box i have is a 2.5 @ 28hz , and on IDs website it says the D2 goes in a 2.3 @ 28 , but the dual 4 goes [email protected] ugh i forget , im guessing i got a dual 4 in a [email protected] IDMAXv3

anyway i would also be curious as to the IDMAXv3 D4 in the [email protected] , maybe thats what i need to get more output way down low , 

and for 1 15maxD2 v.4 i would for sure go with the [email protected] 



Really appreciate it , i have tried that Win isd stuff like 10 times i cant ever seem to figure it out maybe my computer doesnt work with it or something.. hoping it doesnt derail the thread but it is infact concerning IDmaxv4s..
i know that the 15v4 will be allot louder than the 12v3 but im curious as to if the 15v4 will be more peaky at those higher freqs.. My max12v3 tends to like bass around 30hz IM GUESSING but if the 15v4 is not so much like that then maybe i just need 2 12 v3s or even to try the IDv3s , im not sure if i can fit 2 12v3s it would take up 5sqft ! damn i really hope the 15 hits those LOW LOWS !


----------



## 68962

loudnproud808 said:


> i honestly forget if its a dual 2 or dual 4... its been awhile , and i always remebered it being a dual 2 , but then the box i have is a 2.5 @ 28hz , and on IDs website it says the D2 goes in a 2.3 @ 28 , but the dual 4 goes [email protected] ugh i forget , im guessing i got a dual 4 in a [email protected] IDMAXv3
> 
> anyway i would also be curious as to the IDMAXv3 D4 in the [email protected] , maybe thats what i need to get more output way down low ,
> 
> and for 1 15maxD2 v.4 i would for sure go with the [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> Really appreciate it , i have tried that Win isd stuff like 10 times i cant ever seem to figure it out maybe my computer doesnt work with it or something.. hoping it doesnt derail the thread but it is infact concerning IDmaxv4s..
> i know that the 15v4 will be allot louder than the 12v3 but im curious as to if the 15v4 will be more peaky at those higher freqs.. My max12v3 tends to like bass around 30hz IM GUESSING but if the 15v4 is not so much like that then maybe i just need 2 12 v3s or even to try the IDv3s , im not sure if i can fit 2 12v3s it would take up 5sqft ! damn i really hope the 15 hits those LOW LOWS !


okay you fill in the blanks and vc resistance doesnt matter.

Plot 1
Subwoofer:
# of woofers:
Box size:
Ported?:
Port tune:

Plot 2
Subwoofer:
# of woofers:
Box size:
Ported?:
Port tune:

Plot 3
Subwoofer:
# of woofers:
Box size:
Ported?:
Port tune:


and so on...


----------



## loudnproud808

OneSpiritBrain said:


> okay you fill in the blanks and vc resistance doesnt matter.
> 
> *Plot 1
> Subwoofer: Idmax12v.3
> # of woofers:1
> Box size:2.5
> Ported?:x
> Port tune:28hz
> 
> Plot 2
> Subwoofer:idmax12v.3
> # of woofers:2
> Box size:2.5ft each or 5ft total
> Ported?:x
> Port tune:28hz
> 
> Plot 3
> Subwoofer:idmax12v3
> # of woofers: 1
> Box size:2.72
> Ported?:x
> Port tune:25hz
> 
> Plot 4
> subwoofer: IDMAX15v4
> # of woofers:1
> box size 4
> ported x
> port tune 27hz
> 
> plot 5 !
> subwoofer: ID12v3
> #of woofers: 2
> box size: 2ft each or 4ft total
> ported x
> port tune 30hz
> *
> 
> and so on...


wow this will be cool , thanks a bunch this is awesome man !


----------



## DonH

To comment once again on the T/S parameters, they are different. why i can not tell you. I do know that the current ones are accurate. I can not comment on the past parameters as i did not work for ID at that time. 

-Don


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> To comment once again on the T/S parameters, they are different. why i can not tell you. I do know that the current ones are accurate. I can not comment on the past parameters as i did not work for ID at that time.
> 
> -Don


can u comment on how they sound ,u had said earlier that the 15 v4was loud and deep while being nice and clear/accurate , hadnt u also earlier said that nearly everything is the same , VC size cone material magnet etc is all the same , have you heard the v3s , can u comment on the similarities ?


----------



## 68962

DonH said:


> To comment once again on the T/S parameters, they are different. why i can not tell you. I do know that the current ones are accurate. I can not comment on the past parameters as i did not work for ID at that time.
> 
> -Don


So I guess posting "v3" vs. "v4" box gain graphs and the likes are pretty much pointless... 

@Loudnpround808
Do you have another sub with known ts parameters to compare with the IDMAXv4 results that would suffice? How about a JL 13w7?


----------



## DonH

loudnproud808 said:


> can u comment on how they sound ,u had said earlier that the 15 v4was loud and deep while being nice and clear/accurate , hadnt u also earlier said that nearly everything is the same , VC size cone material magnet etc is all the same , have you heard the v3s , can u comment on the similarities ?


yes i have heard the v3's. I built many of them towards the end of the v3 runs. They are different as two different people published the parameters. All our MAX drivers sound completely amazing in proper applications/ power usage. absolutely beautiful.


----------



## loudnproud808

OneSpiritBrain said:


> So I guess posting "v3" vs. "v4" box gain graphs and the likes are pretty much pointless...
> 
> @Loudnpround808
> Do you have another sub with known ts parameters to compare with the IDMAXv4 results that would suffice? How about a JL 13w7?


gee idk all these ratings for subwoofers tend to be so all over the place , and most dont really post all of there specs , now a days they just put 3000 watts ! and expect that to be good enough..

i made an attempt for my own self to compare subs like alpine type r,x and kicker solo l7s , cvx's , jl w6, 7s , and RE XXX , DD 9500, and SSA Icon, Xcon , and also the Arc black ETC ETC..

however most of these will fail at listing all if not any at all data about the driver ..

i am probly most curious about the SSA Xcon , i heard allot about the ICON being comparable/ better than IDMAX etc, but it has less cone area and basically the same xmax or less so i dont see how its louder , and IDmax in my world is hard to beat , im not just gona go with this sub thats people say is better that easily.. However if the XCON is similar sounding to both or better , but has more output (in low freqs) then i may have a new sub to consider . ALTHOUGH I AM stuck on an IDMAX15v4  , but i am curious to the TS parameters aswell , given that said i would be interested in the XCON12

XCON12
Ported Box [email protected] 27 hz 

VS

IDMAX12v4
Ported Box 2.25 @ 28hz

and i guess the 15s would just be a greater version of that 

my IDMAX12v3 absolutely loves bass in the low 30hz range in a ported box 2.555 tuned to 28hz , i would say from listening that it peaks at about 30-35hz and gets very loud and is felt very well . as long as the v4's do that , then that 15v4 will be my next sub for sure, still curious about the XCON


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> yes i have heard the v3's. I built many of them towards the end of the v3 runs. They are different as two different people published the parameters. All our MAX drivers sound completely amazing in proper applications/ power usage. absolutely beautiful.



i dont doubt that they sound awesome , however im in of need something that sounds awesome and can hit the Low Lows EFFORTLESSLY as ID had always claimed , do u feel the v4s hit those low notes with authority ? Believe me if i wanted a SMD18 i would get 1 , i dont want that. I love my MAX12v3 its musical , loud , clear , efficient and digs down low with ease , and if your V4s sound anything like it then I absolutely have to have that 15v4. i dont mean to bombard you with questions , its just i dont have the $ or time to guess and find out , and i get a little confused with the differences in ratings and all.. thanks for communicating with us thru the forums thats great and helps me to be sure and satisfied with your product wich i intend on buying !


----------



## miniSQ

minbari said:


> Yup, the top 2 pics are what got replaced with the bottom 2 pics.
> 
> Eric said the top ones were not a good sounding xover and to chuck it. The old ones did have Lp for the midbass, new ones do not
> 
> I still have it. (That is the old one)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


i had these too, and if i remember, it was a production error in the assemble of the crossover...something was wired backwards or out of sequence. And new crossovers were shipped free of charge to any user calling and asking for replacement.


----------



## G POUNDER

Ok fellas, quick update..... Subs are in box and I will be tuning the system this afternoon as I just got off work. The testing will be done using my current Sundown amps as my Zapco's were returned to the sender in error so now I will have to wait another 3 weeks or so to really give them some adequate power. None the less, it should be pretty good off the power I've got now. Its a sealed box with a net internal of 5 cubes after sub displacement on the pair. Will try to have something up here later tonight in terms of listening results. Also wanted to add something a little off topic but I thought would be worth mentioning. I was searching for a new SQ oriented single din HU to replace my kenwood xcelon X995 and found a double din that that is SQ oriented and BLEW ME AWAY when I installed it yesterday. Sounds absolutely PHENOMINAL!!! Ive always had the best of the best HU but this one is just amazing AND its a JVC!! A brand I NEVER would have considered to be able to produce the type of sound I was after but they have proven me wrong, especially with it being a double din. Kills my xcelon in sound characteristics. If anyone is interested in more info on this SQ unit, lemme know. Im sure there are others out there who have contemplated wether or not their stuff was any good and if there was a good double din Sq unit on the market. Anyway, stay tuned... More to come!!


----------



## SIchodelic

Which enclosure should I get with the IDQ10v4?

Would the Belva Sealed MDF Enclosure sound ok from sonicelectronix?
Single Sealed 10" Enclosure
Internal box volume: 0.77 cubic ft
High Quality 3/4" MDF Construction
Durable black carpeting
Pre-lined with Poly-Fil
Seams are fully caulked for better efficiency
Gold post terminals for clean and easy wiring access
Box Dimensions: 12-1/2"L x 12-1/2"D x 12-1/2"H

Also, I'm planning on powering it with a JL 250/1 which says:
Rated Power
250W RMS x 1 @ 1.5 - 4Ω (11 - 14.5V)

Since it can handle 2ohm and 4ohm, should I go with the D2 or D4? The JL should be enough power to handle it right? Or would I need to get a 500/1?

thanks for answering my noobie question


----------



## DonH

get the D4 version Q. it would do just fine in that box with minimal amounts of stuffing also. thats should be perfect power for the enclosure size. Let us know how it sounds! 

-Don


----------



## kaigoss69

So where are the reviews on the 15? Especially IB please


----------



## loudnproud808

i have been thinking the same thing for weeks ! whats up with these 15s guys ?


----------



## DonH

im curious as well


----------



## kaigoss69

I was between the idmax and w15gti for an IB install, but the lack of reviews is making me lean towards the GTI. Plus, price on Sonicelectronics suddenly went from 499 to 539, so another strike for the max.


----------



## loudnproud808

i been dying for a review on these 15maxs ,if i had the $$$ i would grab 1 and test it out myself .. Is it as clear ,quick and accurate ? Does it hit those low low low notes that i hope it does !!!??? i gotta know


----------



## DonH

Im sorry but why do I keep reading about "low low" notes? seriously?


----------



## subwoofery

DonH said:


> Im sorry but why do I keep reading about "low low" notes? seriously?


Just answer "No" in order to see what he says  

Kelvin


----------



## DonH

subwoofery said:


> Just answer "No" in order to see what he says
> 
> Kelvin


:laugh: I mean honestly, when did this become a term  Im young, in my early 20's and have never once desired to say low low's.... If he means 0hz-10hz now thats LOW LOW's!!!!


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> :laugh: I mean honestly, when did this become a term  Im young, in my early 20's and have never once desired to say low low's.... If he means 0hz-10hz now thats LOW LOW's!!!!


 if i wanted 4 18s tuned to 0hrz then i would say so , i could care less how low a sub can get if it cant do everything else good too, i just want it to hit all the notes , and to many subs roll off around that 30hrz line ( and many much higher) 

i mean isnt the IDMAX known to dig down low ,compared to say an alumapro ? they both sound great , or so i have heard , but both to totally different subs right ?

i just want a single sub set up , no larger than a 15 , thats musical , sounds good on any music , gets loud , doesnt require 10 million watts, and can cover the 20-80hrz nicely. im pretty sure the 15MAX will do that , but so will others , just wanna know whats best!

sorry if im confused as to the "ratings" of these ID subwoofers but it seems as if i would be better going for like 2 12IDv3's they have a lower FS and in a sealed box seem to have a better response in the 20-30hrz area than the maxv4s? am i wrong , right ? It would help me much more to tell me rather than to beat around the bush , or make fun of what i honestly do not know , thats why im on a damn forum to hopefully get a better idea what will suit me best..its hard to understand the "old ratings" of the v2's and v3's and the "new ratings" of the v4's , when u tell me the old ratings where un accurate, but it seems as if the lower freq response of the v3s is better than the v4s? or does an FS of 20hrz(i12dmaxv3), vs and FS of 27hrz(12idmaxv4) not mean anything ? its just a question , and im just trying to understand this . And what a great thing it is to acctually have an ID rep on the site that can answer these questions . not trying to bash or point the finger to try to put down the v4s, i want 1 , BAD, but maybe something like 2 12idv3's would be better suited to what i am looking for , and have been curious about. looking at the graphs of the idv3's vs the idmaxv4s it seems the idv3s do great when sealed in the lower freqs.. or does all these #s not mean sh!t.. ? 

this is what i been tryin to figure out , sorry if i cant ever word it good enough, hope it atleast makes sense enough that i would be so thankful for an answer.


----------



## Golden Ear

loudnproud808 said:


> if i wanted 4 18s tuned to 0hrz then i would say so , i could care less how low a sub can get if it cant do everything else good too, i just want it to hit all the notes , and to many subs roll off around that 30hrz line ( and many much higher)
> 
> i mean isnt the IDMAX known to dig down low ,compared to say an alumapro ? they both sound great , or so i have heard , but both to totally different subs right ?
> 
> i just want a single sub set up , no larger than a 15 , thats musical , sounds good on any music , gets loud , doesnt require 10 million watts, and can cover the 20-80hrz nicely. im pretty sure the 15MAX will do that , but so will others , just wanna know whats best!
> 
> sorry if im confused as to the "ratings" of these ID subwoofers but it seems as if i would be better going for like 2 12IDv3's they have a lower FS and in a sealed box seem to have a better response in the 20-30hrz area than the maxv4s? am i wrong , right ? It would help me much more to tell me rather than to beat around the bush , or make fun of what i honestly do not know , thats why im on a damn forum to hopefully get a better idea what will suit me best..its hard to understand the "old ratings" of the v2's and v3's and the "new ratings" of the v4's , when u tell me the old ratings where un accurate, but it seems as if the lower freq response of the v3s is better than the v4s? or does an FS of 20hrz(i12dmaxv3), vs and FS of 27hrz(12idmaxv4) not mean anything ? its just a question , and im just trying to understand this . And what a great thing it is to acctually have an ID rep on the site that can answer these questions . not trying to bash or point the finger to try to put down the v4s, i want 1 , BAD, but maybe something like 2 12idv3's would be better suited to what i am looking for , and have been curious about. looking at the graphs of the idv3's vs the idmaxv4s it seems the idv3s do great when sealed in the lower freqs.. or does all these #s not mean sh!t.. ?
> 
> this is what i been tryin to figure out , sorry if i cant ever word it good enough, hope it atleast makes sense enough that i would be so thankful for an answer.


Tell em brotha! 

I guess no one is using these yet. Or they're not on this forum to comment.


----------



## DonH

There are a decent of users, they just are not on the forums... I was not trying to insult you, BUT like I have said the v3's look great on paper, we pulled different parameters for them before we stopped production on them. I did not work for the company when the parameters where published for the v3's. the v4 is virtually the same on the 10" and 12" version with a stronger core assembly. read back some pages where I have stated this before. Its a better driver, thats why we released it. If you get any one of our drivers you will NOT be disappointed. Seriously. I run some of our lower ID line ID8's and love them...


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> There are a decent of users, they just are not on the forums... I was not trying to insult you, BUT like I have said the v3's look great on paper, we pulled different parameters for them before we stopped production on them. I did not work for the company when the parameters where published for the v3's. the v4 is virtually the same on the 10" and 12" version with a stronger core assembly. read back some pages where I have stated this before. Its a better driver, thats why we released it. If you get any one of our drivers you will NOT be disappointed. Seriously. I run some of our lower ID line ID8's and love them...


the graphs of the MAX15v4s look great anyway , and the ported box tuned to 27hrz sounds apealing , when my max12v3 already sounds BEAUTIFUL tuned to 28.. IF i could have a lil more output from my 12 it would be a dream come true, and IF i could feel and hear those 30hrz ish tones a lil more , i would finally have my dream system , not saying the 12max does not do it , its just that maybe i would need 2 12s to do that. and i would like to increase my output mainly in the 30hrz ish territory , as oppose to the 40's POUNDING and the 30's not so much.. the 12maxv3 hits the 30's just as hard as the 40's but maybe its just that its a single 12 that i dont feel it as much as i would like , being that those lower notes are felt more than heard sometimes...

i would assume the 15v4 would do exactly what i want. i dont doubt that it will.

BUT- when referencing the v3's in my last post i was refering to the IDv3's not the IDMAXv3 

for example 

- the IDQ12v4 has a FS of 30hrz, vs the IDQ12v2 is 19hrz and the ID12v3 FS 20hrz.. The graphs of the ID12v3 seems to carry out very well below the 30hrz area , where as the IDQv4's and MAXv4s seem to drop on the graphs.

So i know im writing a Novel, but bare with me , and i know u had told before that the "ratings" of the older MAX's may be different than the V'4s , this i do not know , as i cannot comment on that due to the fact that i have not heard the v4s yet. if i had the money i would have a 15v4 rite now despite any confusion !

So my question of the year is , arent the IDv3's newer subs and can u tell me if the ratings of it are accurate? sealed box 1.5cft on the ID12v3 has a -3db of 16hrz , vs IDMAX12v4 in a 1.8 sealed is -3db of 37hrz .. not sure if i understand all this perfectly , but maybe for what i am looking for i shud go with 2 12IDv3s sealed or something 

i hope u or anyone else can make any sense of all that  thanks


----------



## 68962

Man Don send me an amp to power this idmax15 of mine so I can video demo for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kaigoss69

Video demo, really???


----------



## 68962

kaigoss69 said:


> Video demo, really???



Yeah free air video would be nice to see. I want to use my calipers with a frame to actually measure the excursion and provide xmax & xmech. Any more questions smart ass??? Here's one for you... Why are you a smug prick? Merry Kissmyassmas!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 68962

Dblp


----------



## DonH

Lets leave name calling elsewhere good sir! this is a friendly thread  Happy Holidays everyone!


----------



## BuickGN

I wouldn't mind seeing one of these in action especially in free air. These keep sticking in the back of my mind. I wouldn't mind trying a pair IB, just waiting for more reviews. Anyone know the inductance of the 15?


----------



## DBlevel

BuickGN said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing one of these in action especially in free air. These keep sticking in the back of my mind. I wouldn't mind trying a pair IB, just waiting for more reviews. Anyone know the inductance of the 15?


Hopefully in the next couple of months I'll be running a pair of the IDMAX 15's in an IB setup in my Accord.


----------



## kaigoss69

OneSpiritBrain said:


> Yeah free air video would be nice to see. I want to use my calipers with a frame to actually measure the excursion and provide xmax & xmech. Any more questions smart ass??? Here's one for you... Why are you a smug prick? Merry Kissmyassmas!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for your thoughtful and heartfelt reply NoSpiritGrinch, I hope you had a nice Christmas as well and a happy new year to you, too! May your quest for woofer porn, and the plethora of knowledge to be gained by it, be a fruitful one!


----------



## DonH

DBlevel said:


> Hopefully in the next couple of months I'll be running a pair of the IDMAX 15's in an IB setup in my Accord.


Well are you? Im curious hehe


----------



## Sadus

So whatever happened to Frankie and/or the limited IDQv2 run?


----------



## SilkySlim

I can't wait to hear yours at the meet my friend I had to put mine system on hold. I'm actually planning it right now. I helped on a couple systems and these are truly amazing subs. I haven't had the opportunity to do an IB config yet but nothing leads me to believe it will perform incredible. We have done them in medium and larger 3cuft. sealed enclosures and there is no audible limit to the extension. I am a sucker for feeling 15-40hz so that's why I plan on using them IB. They were very tight and composed in the 40-80hz as well. They are efficient monsters I want 2 but one would be more than enough. They seem to be much more efficient than the specs suggest.


----------



## DonH

Sadus said:


> So whatever happened to Frankie and/or the limited IDQv2 run?


Frankie has moved on to another company, and the Qv2's where built but sold to a dealer , Not my deal so don't flame me for it :/


----------



## minbari

I had high hopes for Franke. He seemed to be all full of piss snd vinegar to get ID back on track

sent from my phone using digital farts


----------



## SilkySlim

Me too but they seem to have some other good guys there too.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## cajunner

I wonder if the Qv2's ended up overseas.


----------



## mos805

DonH said:


> Frankie has moved on to another company, and the Qv2's where built but sold to a dealer , Not my deal so don't flame me for it :/


Terribly sad to see this happen, I was looking forward to adding another IDQ to the collection. I guess I lucked out in buying a recone for the one IDQ12v2 I have when I did.


----------



## loudnproud808

u know i am so impressed with these idmax subs since 1st hearing them , owning 1 and then another , 1 for each ride . i have enjoyed them in sealed and ported boxes of different sizes , i just love these subs , and i think they are good value for its price but beyond that , at any price .. i listen to it everyday and i still am always pleased and wowed by its performance , and its ability to get very loud and all the while sounding not only accurate , but natural , quick or deep u name it ..

BUT - as much anticipation this thread has had , with 28 pages of everyone interested about the v4s and the 15maxv4 , i cannot believe that there is not 1 single review yet ? i myself have run into a HUGE financial rut and cannot any time soon afford 1 , but has anyone had the chance to own 1 yet and can make a review ! speaking on my behalf i am dying to know !!???


----------



## kaigoss69

I am also holding off on a Max15 until I can find *at least* 1 review...


----------



## casey

probably will have a review in the next week or two. A friend of mine on here has purchased 2 he is going to run IB lol. 

Ill give my impressions as well


----------



## DBlevel

casey said:


> probably will have a review in the next week or two. A friend of mine on here has purchased 2 he is going to run IB lol.
> 
> Ill give my impressions as well


Thanks to a local member on here will be in the next couple of weeks


----------



## kaigoss69

Awesome, make sure you try running one by itself since that's what I'm planning to do!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Did the ID CES 2014 thread disappear or am I missing something? Any news for the IDQS8 release date and specs?


----------



## DonH

Architect7 said:


> Did the ID CES 2014 thread disappear or am I missing something? Any news for the IDQS8 release date and specs?


Because I do not have a vendor account yet, yes. We are working hard on the IDq8 the IDQs8 and the SQ6.5" set! awaiting final parts to get the 100 approval for building!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Nice!


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> Because I do not have a vendor account yet, yes. We are working hard on the IDq8 the IDQs8 and the SQ6.5" set! awaiting final parts to get the 100 approval for building!


what is the SQ 6.5 set ? Is that a mini sub set or a new Component line ? Good to hear bout the IDQ8's tho

Cant wait for a review of the 15max !


----------



## moparman79

my sales rep said he should have them in about 30 days. Im looking forward to test the 8's out.


----------



## DBlevel

Picked these up Thursday ........many thanks to a local member for making it happen!

And now the fun begins to get them in...........


----------



## schmiddr2

Big subs. That's got to be fun to open up those boxes.


----------



## DBlevel

It was almost like Xmas when I was younger lol.

The entire ride home with these big b****es in the backseat in the rear view mirror.....

Couldn't wait to get home and open them up!


----------



## kaigoss69

I liked you until I saw that ugly NC matt...


----------



## Golden Ear

kaigoss69 said:


> I liked you until I saw that ugly NC matt...


I was gonna say the opposite of this! :laugh: JK


----------



## moparman1

DBlevel said:


> Picked these up Thursday ........many thanks to a local member for making it happen!
> 
> And now the fun begins to get them in...........


Can't wait for your review on these.


----------



## DBlevel

kaigoss69 said:


> I liked you until I saw that beautiful NC matt...


Fixed that for you........


----------



## SilkySlim

Ok so I can give a short review them in sealed enclosures. I am in the process of prepping my daily driver for a pair. I will be replacing a single temporary max 12 mounted IB.

I have listened to two builds and here are my thoughts.

Very efficient the amount of shear force and impact is incredible. I will love it when they fully break in !  

The biggest surprise to me is even crossed over @ 110-90hz to get a little more from the doors to keep up. It sounded so tight and punchy. There is know way a large format sub should sound this good! Ok so the suspension on these are much much tighter than the twelves. 

I have heard a pair of them in a very stout box close to 3cuft each. In a wagon the really blended well with a 6.5 components up front. I would say timing wise better than my twelve. (Disclaimer may be due to the car and crappy temp install) but I do feel they have a tighter feel with way more impact. They disappeared in to the stage. 

I just did a basic retuned of the car with the 15's two days ago. I absolutely can't wait for my set. I'm am sold!!   I have thoroughly, thoroughly, enjoyed my twelve but the 15" haha more like 16"'s are a marvel. I feel like this sub will be perfect in IB! Sorry for the short review but I am time crunched on getting mine ready for them. In my mind if you can fit them and afford them there just isn't another sub too match it.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## SilkySlim

This is the lengths I'm going through to put them in my car!! This is just the baffle frame! This should be fun. Remember these 16s subs are not for the faint of heart. They are absolute monsters but they have such an absolute effortless dynamics and accuracy that is hard to match. I haven't heard it yet at least. Support is key with these monsters. I'm sure there are bigger and louder but not linear, clean, tight, and have ability to blend effortlessly in to the stage.
I hope this helps someone.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## loudnproud808

now this is getting exciting ! the subs look very nice , would love to get my hands on these , glad to hear they sound great


----------



## DBlevel

Looking good! Keep us updated!


----------



## DonH

Awesome!


----------



## cajunner

U Didn't Build That - YouTube

or did he...?


----------



## DBlevel

Got them in today and everything up and running. Only have about 400 watts on the subs and they sound amazing!

Can't wait to get the second amp in.........


----------



## DBlevel




----------



## Velozity

That...Zuki...looks...so...familiar...*sniff* 


Nice install Russ!


----------



## BuickGN

Are those the 15s? If so that's awesome! I'll be following closely for the full review. The funny thing is I cranked mine for all the amp was worth and it had all the output I could ever want yet I want to try these Max15s if for no other reason than their huge potential output.


----------



## DBlevel

BuickGN said:


> Are those the 15s? If so that's awesome! I'll be following closely for the full review. The funny thing is I cranked mine for all the amp was worth and it had all the output I could ever want yet I want to try these Max15s if for no other reason than their huge potential output.


Yea, idmax15d4v4. Very impressed so far............

Another local member heard them for a little while earlier. He might chime in but he might wait till I add the second amp then listen to the setup again.


----------



## DBlevel

Velozity said:


> That...Zuki...looks...so...familiar...*sniff*
> 
> 
> Nice install Russ!



Thanks Mike, I'm taking very good care of her!

It was cool to get all the original boxes.

Love the amp, waiting on #2.............. :rockon:


Might put the 4 channel in wifey's car in a few weeks lol.


----------



## miniSQ

DBlevel said:


>


subs are beautiful...and the install is nice too, but any way to hide that power distribution block and get all that wiring under the board? Ot is that a temp set up waiting on the other amp you mentioned?


----------



## DBlevel

Well I'm really wanting to keep the power cables separate from the RCA's/speaker wiring. I've had the wiring underneath the board in past installs and may go back to that. Just trying something right now. 


But to answer the question it's just temporary atm............ Was really too lazy today to do more lol.


----------



## teldzc1

Beast Mode!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## Golden Ear

Nice install, Russ! I would love to hear that setup


----------



## casey

Got to hear Russ's new sub stage this evening. It has way more output than any 500w sub stage should have. For getting 250 each, it's pretty stupid. They are super clean and the low end output was ridiculous. They honestly don't need any more power since Russ now has to go back through his accord for rattles lol. At the same time I'm interested to hear them once he gets the second eleet 5 in


----------



## DBlevel

Thanks Casey and yea, I'll be without a rear view mirror after tomorrow lol. Drove for years without one I'll do it again.

Hoping I'll have #2 by next week(Wed or Thurs). Can't wait!


----------



## SilkySlim

So you liked them? Are they every thing I said. They kind of defy laws of physics. They are stupid efficient and yet tight and go so low. You just have to experience them. They are so different than the other maxxs.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

DBlevel said:


>


Good Lookin man big change since I've seen it last. Good choice on the T Nuts these subs are can get violent! LOL


----------



## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> Are those the 15s? If so that's awesome! I'll be following closely for the full review. The funny thing is I cranked mine for all the amp was worth and it had all the output I could ever want yet I want to try these Max15s if for no other reason than their huge potential output.


Finally doing the Max 15's IB as well I will have a review soon I know finally. :lurk: :laugh:  So now you have a couple reviews to check out between DBLevel and I. I have done a few with them and they are in a league of their own. Even the other model Max's aren't even that similar. Some general SQ characteristics but the experience is completely different. They are incredibly tight musical, linear, etc. but the impact and extension is natural but just raw and intense for lack of making up a new word to describe them. I can't wait to go IB with them. Amazingly they take very, very little power to do it!  It's just puzzling really. My 12max sound great IB especially after break in but the 15's are just in a league of their own.


----------



## BuickGN

SilkySlim said:


> Finally doing the Max 15's IB as well I will have a review soon I know finally. :lurk: :laugh:  So now you have a couple reviews to check out between DBLevel and I. I have done a few with them and they are in a league of their own. Even the other model Max's aren't even that similar. Some general SQ characteristics but the experience is completely different. They are incredibly tight musical, linear, etc. but the impact and extension is natural but just raw and intense for lack of making up a new word to describe them. I can't wait to go IB with them. Amazingly they take very, very little power to do it!  It's just puzzling really. My 12max sound great IB especially after break in but the 15's are just in a league of their own.


Wow, I'm really looking forward to it. These things sound like they're going to be awesome. Is there any place that's better than others to buy them?


----------



## DonH

Great looking! Its awesome that the visual beauty of the subs are not inside a dark MDF box  

Im glad you are enjoying them so far! Remember, dont cook them coils ok! :laugh:


----------



## moparman79

Yeah they seem to be the real deal. Cool that these are getting a good
Review. Im going to be testing one of these soon. Might be doing one in a install
real soon, cant wait.


----------



## DBlevel

SilkySlim said:


> So you liked them? Are they every thing I said. They kind of defy laws of physics. They are stupid efficient and yet tight and go so low. You just have to experience them. They are so different than the other maxxs.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk



I love them so far! So very clear and low with little effort at not much power on them. May not need more power for them lol.

Hit me up when you get back in town.........


----------



## SilkySlim

Holy crap I only had one hooked up and it flexed my trunk lid so much it broke the seal and made an award winning fart. The bad wave created from 3-400watts on one is pretty intense.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## DBlevel

SilkySlim said:


> Holy crap I only had one hooked up and it flexed my trunk lid so much it broke the seal and made an award winning fart. The bad wave created from 3-400watts on one is pretty intense.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


You back in town?


----------



## moparman79

I like that.. nice!


----------



## kaigoss69

You guys got me wet, I'm in!


----------



## DBlevel

kaigoss69 said:


> You guys got me wet, I'm in!


TMI


----------



## edzyy

DBlevel said:


>


Awesome

what car?


----------



## DBlevel

edzyy said:


> Awesome
> 
> what car?


2004 accord sedan....


----------



## DonH

So I would love it for anyone whom installs these subs to email me some pictures or send me a pm to image links so I can get some pictures up on the website, along with a small "mini review"  thanks a ton for the love on the drivers! You guys are why ID is still ID and why we strive to provide you guys with great USA built product! The fact that what I build with my two hands every step is enjoyed so much by you guys!
Thanks a Heap! I cant wait to get some more new product rolling out to you guys!

-Don
Image Dynamics


----------



## J.novak

I'm doing a very similar install. Single idmax15 ib, though I'll only have 600w rms available.


----------



## DBlevel

gregerst22 said:


> I'll have an IDMAX 15 tomorrow.  I decided to try a single idmax in my new build instead of using the pair of IB15AU's from my previous install.
> On paper the max has more output than both of the IB15's. It'll be installed IB and I'm very eager to see how it compares sound and output wise to the IB15's. I'll have 1200 wrms available for it but I'm sure it won't need it all.





J.novak said:


> I'm doing a very similar install. Single idmax15 ib, though I'll only have 600w rms available.



You'll both like them. 

Novak......600rms will be plenty for one in IB.


----------



## palldat

DonH said:


> So I would love it for anyone whom installs these subs to email me some pictures or send me a pm to image links so I can get some pictures up on the website, along with a small "mini review"  thanks a ton for the love on the drivers! You guys are why ID is still ID and why we strive to provide you guys with great USA built product! The fact that what I build with my two hands every step is enjoyed so much by you guys!
> Thanks a Heap! I cant wait to get some more new product rolling out to you guys!
> 
> -Don
> Image Dynamics


Are you coming out to the May 10th event? I need you to take a look at the space I have and let me know what size box would best fit that location. Right now I am using a 1.75 sealed box with the IDQ 12d4v4. 

I have a JL Audio HD900/5 running it. I am thinking about running the HD750/1 on it in the future.


----------



## DBlevel

gregerst22 said:


> Got my sub today. Box says xmax is 27.2 mm. Over 3.5" of linear excursion.  I'm going to try and get it installed tonight.



Awesome! Post up some pics!

Let us know what you think when you get it in as well..........


----------



## Golden Ear

Not sure where you got 3.5" cuz 27.2 mm is barely over an inch Am I missing something?


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## sinister-kustoms

Lol, it says it on the box. It must be true!


----------



## Golden Ear

sinister-kustoms said:


> Lol, it says it on the box. It must be true!


Can't argue with that:laugh:
I knew I was missing something.


----------



## BuickGN

I'm guessing the word "linear" was not supposed to be on there.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Any updates on the IDQS8?


----------



## moparman79

Architect7 said:


> Any updates on the IDQS8?


I was told by my sales rep that they were 45-60 days out. That was
in the beginning of the month. I will call in the morning to get a date.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Sweet!!!


----------



## loudnproud808

gregerst22 said:


> Here's some pics.
> This is still a work in progress but I managed to get it installed in the car tonight. I got a little bit of listening time on it and I'm really impressed. I want to get it tuned and some more time with it before I say more.
> 
> Next to an IB15AU the iDMax looks impressive. It weighs about 3x as much. But I'm going from 2 subs to one so the overall added weight isn't very much.


wow that looks super cool , nice! i like how u will have lots of trunk space and still be able to get ur spare out easily ! i have heard the talk of the town on IB for awhile now , and especially with the likes of Image Dynamics, i have heard the low end is great running IB and SQ is also very high , i wonder on the output tho ? I would assume the 15 would get more output ported, but Do u think that The Max15v4 will have more output IB vs a max12 in a ported box ? Im curious because i have a max12 in a ported and want to upgrade to a 15 , but the box size will leave me no trunk and this IB thing is just so interesting , i have just never had the glory in hearing a sub IB !!!


----------



## cubdenno

I got to listen to a fellow member's system using 2 15's IB. And it got quite loud. I would say it got into the low 130's just off of what I heard and felt. If you are familiar with a sub in a sealed enclosure, the output IB should be very close to the same. Just generally takes less power to get to that point. I would also say, depending on the tuning and the overall enclosure, a ported 12 should get louder than a 15 IB.


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## DonH

Awesome!!


----------



## loudnproud808

gregerst22 said:


> yup, there's a lot of benefit to going ib as you mentioned. like less weight, and regaining a majority of trunk space back. plays low and really great for SQ. but assuming your current setup is built, tuned properly with a good amp. I wouldn't say you'd gain more peak spl from what you have going ib with a 15.


then i think i mite just try ported 1st  i just want to see how loud i can get that thing to go , and eventually probly not care about that overtime and run it IB to save trunk space ! That is what i had always heard that a IB setup will be similar to a sealed box in terms of output , but that the lower bass extension will be greater , i wonder about the rattles of the trunk tho ? I had read about something called a " Luke box " and had seen it with an idmax , where its a box that places the sub itself out of the trunk but the box remains in the trunk ( sorry i could not explain that any better:worried and then the trunk itself has no pressure therefore no rattles ! i want to try something like that too ! but for now 15maxv4 ported , simple setup first ..when i have the scripts to do so


----------



## sinister-kustoms

loudnproud808 said:


> I had read about something called a " Luke box " and had seen it with an idmax , where its a box that places the sub itself out of the trunk but the box remains in the trunk ( sorry i could not explain that any better:worried and then the trunk itself has no pressure therefore no rattles


Do you mean a trunk wall, like some of SPL guys run?


----------



## SilkySlim

The baffle frame for my IB. Welded and bolted to the frame, back deck and floor. 








Temp install from seating side of the baffle. With baffle bolted in.
Great SQ super tight, goes deep, great impact. They blend great. Goofing off tuning it did a 154.9 at the the windshield with turn down for what playing. Running them in a 1 ohm mono on an old school Lanzar Opti 50C. So about 700 ish watts. It is able to play solid 138-141 with music at the headrest.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

The baffle is 3 layers of 3/4 birch and oak. Plenty of output. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## J.novak

I can't tell from the pic, are those idmax 15's? Are they getting 700w each?


----------



## moparman1

That's very impressive. There is a guy over on caraudio.com who has a Mazda 3 with two 13w7 s on 2500watts ported and it took him weeks of tweaking to hit 150.


----------



## loudnproud808

sinister-kustoms said:


> Do you mean a trunk wall, like some of SPL guys run?


This one runs the ports thru the rear deck i like this setup it looks like it would sound sweet !


----------



## SilkySlim

J.novak said:


> I can't tell from the pic, are those idmax 15's? Are they getting 700w each?


Yes they are the 15" closer to 16" . No they are only seeing 700 total. After a good break in I might add more power. I ran a single 12 IB in the same car for a year and it was heat but phenomenal after 10-11mo. When it broke in handled more power and had more output. I am more of a SQ guy but like concert level dynamics at times and like the extension and impact below 50-40. So I wasn't going for Spl I just had the rta on, disc in and thought I wonder what it is doing. Boy was I surprised. I did another build with them in a 2.8 sealed enclosure each on similar power and it's louder. You can see sound wave ripple through the sunroof. Yet they sound great and are very linear. The best and tightest "15" I have ever heard! They like a good break in.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## DonH

Basically put, all of our drivers we build in the warehouse are 1 inch larger than advertised... seriously haha! the Q and Max 10's are 11's... the 12's are 13's and the 15 is a 16 

Keep the reviews coming guys! Forwarding all review replies to the big guy so he can read how much you guys are loving them!


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## kaigoss69

Nice, where did you get that grille?


----------



## DBlevel

Looks great!


----------



## J.novak

I too am in the process of an idmax15 ib setup, so I figured I'd post up a few pics. This is my first attempt at infinite baffle, so don't laugh too much. Lol


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## DonH

LOVE IT GUYS!


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## loudnproud808

gregerst22 said:


> okay so I have small update. I got the rta out and decided to check the sub again and to my surprise it's playing the 30Hz to 20Hz range better than it was before. Meaning, the dip it initially had in is almost gone and it only needs a small boost on the eq to flatten it out now. I'm also having to cut 40Hz a bit which I didn't need to before. Nothing has changed with my install that would affect this so I'm assuming the sub has loosened up or is getting broken in?
> 
> 
> I also got the baffle carpeted and finished some other stuff for the sub install.



this is absolutely beautiful , i am being more and more drawn to the IB setups over the years , especially with the looks of installs like these . i need this ! I still wonder if the the pressure it puts on the trunk , and if it would be equal or greater or less than if you were to run a sealed or ported box in the trunk , my MAX12 in a ported box rattles the HELL out of the trunk (and everything for that matter) even with 3 boxes of rammat and some ensolite. i would hope that maybe it puts a little less stress on the trunk rattles ?


----------



## cubdenno

SilkySlim said:


> The baffle frame for my IB. Welded and bolted to the frame, back deck and floor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temp install from seating side of the baffle. With baffle bolted in.
> Great SQ super tight, goes deep, great impact. They blend great. Goofing off tuning it did a 154.9 at the the windshield with turn down for what playing. Running them in a 1 ohm mono on an old school Lanzar Opti 50C. So about 700 ish watts. It is able to play solid 138-141 with music at the headrest.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


JEEBUS CHRISTOPH!!!!
154 with 2 15's on IB using 700 watts total??!!! That is amazing!! You need to enter that in a SPL show for giggles. No box, low power... You would win.


----------



## loudnproud808

gregerst22 said:


> The most difficult part with that install was trying to find carpet that was a close match. I bought 3 different rolls and finally ended up just coloring it myself.
> 
> You're still going to have pressure in the trunk but a potential advantage with IB is the more back wave you can vent to the outside the flatter the response can be. Typically most trunks will have vents with one-way flaps that lets air pressure out when the trunk lid is shut. They are usually hidden behind the carpet somewhere. If you can expose these so that air can flow to them easier it will reduce pressure and the sub can sound a little better. At least that's been my experience and I try to do this with my installs.


nice tip ! and yes carpet can be a pain.. Once again great install this is like my dream set up ! im guessing that the output of a MAX15 ib will be similar to a max12 ported , but since the 15 would be IB the lower tones would be a bit louder ? i wonder if u can still use the trunk or does that throw things off ?! 

I see so much of the ID installs doing great custom work like this , i feel like it must be that great of a sub to be used by people that create such beyond normal setups ! awesome


----------



## SilkySlim

I can get much more output out of an ID max 15 IB than an ID max 12 ported

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## DonH

SilkySlim said:


> I can get much more output out of an ID max 15 IB than an ID max 12 ported
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


So what you are saying is we have one he'll of an IB beast? Love it man!


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## SilkySlim

Awesome can't wait to see.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## BuickGN

cubdenno said:


> JEEBUS CHRISTOPH!!!!
> 154 with 2 15's on IB using 700 watts total??!!! That is amazing!! You need to enter that in a SPL show for giggles. No box, low power... You would win.


Even if he loses he still wins lol. Are you thinking of going IB soon? I don't need to sell them but I would be willing to help anyone looking to get into an IB install with dirt cheap IB15s. Basically going to order either a pair of Max 15s or 2-3 13W7s in about 17 days, going to confirm I'm reasonably happy with them, and selling the 15s that I love so much if anyone wants them.


----------



## cubdenno

BuickGN said:


> Even if he loses he still wins lol. Are you thinking of going IB soon? I don't need to sell them but I would be willing to help anyone looking to get into an IB install with dirt cheap IB15s. Basically going to order either a pair of Max 15s or 2-3 13W7s in about 17 days, going to confirm I'm reasonably happy with them, and selling the 15s that I love so much if anyone wants them.


No. Not unless my next company vehicle is a car. I want more output than IB is going to give me. I don't have the <25 hertz bandwidth requirements that IB or sealed could give me.

I appreciate the offer though. Those are amazing speakers.


----------



## edzyy

154? 

****tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

My best score was 145 @ 22 hz with 2 JBL GTO's


----------



## edzyy

Can we get a video of this score?


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## SilkySlim

I'll see what I can do. I was just goofing off while preparing to tune. That was at the dash not at seat. The Mic was laying on the dash while I was peering the adjustments in the back seat. 
I'll see what I can do when I make the changes on the top end and bring the meter back out for tuning.


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> I don't think you'd be disappointed with the Max 15s if you decided to go that route. They're a step up from the IB15s in every way. Tighter and harder hitting bass that digs just as deep if not a little more. I think it's pretty cool that the company cares enough to participate in this forum.
> I sold my IB15's within a day in the classifieds so I doubt you'd have hard time off loading yours for a decent price.


Thank you. I had a post typed up asking you some of those questions yesterday and I deleted it by accident. 

I want to have my cake and eat it too as we all do. One of the reasons I like the IB15 so much is it does everything so well. It's sounding like the Max15 does as well. 

What I'm most concerned about is what I would be giving up, especially with the ultra low inductance treatment of the IB15. I need a sub that will play 100hz and sound good doing so. Even with my larger than average midbass, there's just no comparison to a pair of 15s playing the same frequency. Have you played yours up that high?

You mention the Max is even punchier than the IB15?!? That would be amazing. It sounds like they dig just as low before EQ too. What about detail, especially in the bass range? Do notes just run together or are they clearly defined?

What about efficiency, I know you went from two pretty efficient subs to just one but going by ear, is there much difference in output between the two?

The Max has twice the displacement of the IB15 so I'm not worried about output and I think everyone would agree they look better from the backside. Although I'm weird, I like the simple plain cone and dust cap of the IB15. Based solely on sound quality, with looks and output and price out of the equation, which one would you pick? I'm looking to retain the sound quality I currently have and get more output and just making a change out of boredom. 

I know inductance isn't everything, I like the 12W6 maybe just a tiny bit better than the IB15 for sound quality in an IB install and it has pretty high inductance. The IB15 seems technically superior than the JL during critical listening, seemingly more detailed and it plays the upper bass range better but there's something I like better about the JL. I wish I could hear these subs before buying to see if they give the same kind of warm and fuzzy feeling. 

A pair of 16" subs with 28mm of linear throw and 3" of total throw has to be in the top 5 highest displacement "traditional" IB setups that retains trunk space and fits without cutting on the car. 

Any idea on the difference in the 2 ohm and 4 ohm besides the obvious? Either will work with my amp. The Bl is higher on the 2 ohm. The Vas is lower and the Qts is lower. I would prefer the lower Vas and Qts even though the difference is small. What's going on with the Bl though?


----------



## SilkySlim

Good review I concur. I felt that way about my OZ IB 12 almost to smooth and sometimes lose. 
I thought until the 15" maxxs break in I would go easier on them. I plan on ramping up the power soon to them because I think they can take it. I plan on trying 1.2-1.5k on each should give me plenty of head room. I am running 8" up front. I'm actually going to try running the ID8 and see how they do.
I am impressed at how they aren't boomy on the bottom end. There is a deep bassline rhythm in the song replay. First many systems it's just barely present, but I have heard that boomy in many systems. Yet the maxxs stay very composed with authority. Plenty of impact. If you want it's like someone smacking you in the back with a paddle. What I have learned is it's as much about harmonics sometimes as any one spec you want to focus on. Which is why the Morel and Dyn's do so well. They do so many things well across a broad spectrum. That is what the maxxs remind me of. I ran a single 12" IB and it was impressive. It did not like me to give it the beans right away. But as soon as broke in it wanted all I had. Based on that I knew the 15's would be great. 
I have done the 15's D2's in a large sealed box off of about 500 watts to the pair and it is truly impressive. It is in a wagon and good grief it is sick. Way to much for the rest of the system but it's portion is strong and very musical.

I'll ask Dblevel I think that he using D2's IB. I'll what he thinks.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## DBlevel

I'm running the d4's Chad but you know I love the ID 15's.

Casey heard them a few days ago so he could throw in a comment or two as well. The choice to go IB, I'm glad I did. The choice to run the IDMAX v4's I'm very glad I did! After many members here commented in a thread that I should try IB I was a little weary at first but it is amazing clarity out of a pair of subs! Not sure I'd ever run any other setup as long as I can do an IB!

I actually tried the US Acoustic usa2300 tonite on the subs and WOW! Not sure why I couldn't get the Zuki amps to sound like that but I'm going to wire the Zuki amps back in and see if I can dial them in a little more. Was impressed with the 15+ year old Zed amp!

The effortless lows the ID's can reach with such clarity and still give the impact is awesome!

I just wonder how a pair of 12" IDMAX subs would do.........

Would the impact/punch be even better? Still able to reach the lows as good? Might be what I run in a second vehicle in another setup but very impressed with the IDMAX subs!


----------



## SilkySlim

No there is something special about the 15'. I liked the max 12's and they sound great IB but the 15" are tighter and carry a much bigger hammer. They are kind of an anomaly that way. I can't think of a another 15 that is tighter and has more punch than the comparable 12. It's not drastic and the 12s aren't bad but I just feel like in my direct comparison they are just a little tighter and definitely carrying more impact. 
I ran a single twelve in the same configuration. I'm sure 2 would have helped. I'm also sure that I would have been happy with the two 12's but in the back of my mind I would have always known that the 15's are better.


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## tyroneshoes

when is the idq 8" coming out


----------



## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> First keep in mind I like to crossover the sub anywhere from about 65Hz to 50Hz. To me single Max15 in IB sounds very similar to how a pair of IB15s did. Granted it has been about 5 months since I had the IB15s. They've been sitting in garage since last winter after I sold the TL. But I had listened to those subs a lot during my hour compute each way to work and back and had hundreds of hours of seat time with them. I really liked them a lot and never thought I would give them up. The only reason for changing was that the car I have now is better suited for a single sub unless I wanted to cut sheet metal behind the seat or fabricate a more complex V shaped baffle.
> 
> Needless to say I was very nervous about replacing them with IDMax15. I didn’t want to give up the SQ or output that I was used to. On paper a single Max15 had the output to exceed or at least match them both and I took it on faith from a couple of reviews and the reputation ID subs had for SQ that the SQ would be there so I took the plunge and I’m happy to say that I have no regrets at all with my decision.
> 
> If I had to be very critical of the IB15s it would be that they were almost too smooth, loose or airy sounding, I can’t say that about the Max15. The Max15 can dig as deep without any Eq now that it's getting broken in and all the detail is still there but sounds a little tighter, and plays with more authority at low and high volume. Maybe has something to do with more cone control? It does seem to like a lot of power. In fact I'm giving it over 1300w and surprisingly it can take it. Personally I wouldn't go with anything less than 500w or 600w each. I was almost afraid to push the IB15s too hard with 360w each because they seemed more… fragile for lack of a better description.
> 
> I tried playing with the crossover set at 100Hz 24db today and it sounds okay. I’m sorry I really can't compare this aspect to the IB15s because I never crossed them that high. Mainly because it draws more bass to the rear, especially at high volume, which I dislike. I love upfront bass so I cross as low as I possibly can that will meet up with my mids. It's the main reason I have 9" mid basses with 350w going to each. With some t/a on the sub the illusion that all of the bass is coming from the dash is very convincing even at max volume.
> 
> I’m running the d4 ohm and not sure if the 2 ohm would be better. I could plug them both into bassbox pro and see if there’s any difference. How many watts would you be giving them?


Well, I talked to my dealer last week and I'll be ordering a pair in 14 days. If there was one fault of the IB15s it would be the way they do hard hitting bass. I mean, they're close to perfect in every way but there's this one minor difference I can't quite put my finger on when compared to my single 12W6. I have hard hitting punch for days but there was more "depth" to the W6's punch if that makes any sense? The IB15 might even be more accurate in its reproduction, I don't know. What I do know is I always have that lingering thought in the back of my head that the W6 might have sounded better in most cases. 

I'm hoping the Max15 will bring this back. My only concern is I like to play my subs up high. Even with my 9s in the doors that have plenty excursion and 300w each there's nothing that can match a pair of 15s up to 100hz. I hope the Max 15s will play up there ok. I run my 9s down to 70hz and lean on them hard. I manage to still get up front bass this way but with better dynamics. 

I only wish we could get some klippel results to see what's going on with these subs. I'll be hanging on to my IB15s for a while until I have some listening time but something tells me I'll be very happy with them. 

Since I already have a 750/1 on the subs I'll probably get another. Do you think 750 each will get them near xmax? Maybe a 1200/1 would be better? I want to at least hit xmax if not slightly exceed it at 20hz. I guess it's time to get on WinISD. 

I'll get the baffle and everything I can possibly do done ahead of time so I'll be able to hear the IB15s and Max 15s in the same day. 

Just to verify, these kind of do it all; rock, rap, organ, etc? I've had more trouble making the IB15s disappear than any other sub. I don't know if it's the low inductance or what. That's another thing I'm hoping changes. 

Thanks for the help so far. I'm open to any other descriptions no matter how small or seemingly insignificant.


----------



## DonH

tyroneshoes said:


> when is the idq 8" coming out


parts for the IDQ 8" and IDQs6.5" are on the way as I type!


----------



## carfreak1024

been really questioning myself on substage as well. I work at a place that sells JL Audio and in stock there are 3 JL 12W6V2-D2s that have my name on them but the thought that i can get 2 IDMAX 15s in there is so cool. Before here i worked at an image dynamics dealer and I had a single IDMAX 12" on about 1000RMS. It killed lows for a single 12". 

If you guys had to estimate SPL in the 30-40hz range between 2 IDMAX 15s or 3 JL 12W6V2s both in IB Configuration with 4000RMS on tap.......don't have to use it all....... what would you guess?

P.S. I'm not looking for an SPL setup, hence IB, but output is important to me and i listen to alot of Soca, Reggae, and Dancehall which has alot of output in the 30-40hz range.


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## BuickGN

carfreak1024 said:


> been really questioning myself on substage as well. I work at a place that sells JL Audio and in stock there are 3 JL 12W6V2-D2s that have my name on them but the thought that i can get 2 IDMAX 15s in there is so cool. Before here i worked at an image dynamics dealer and I had a single IDMAX 12" on about 1000RMS. It killed lows for a single 12".
> 
> If you guys had to estimate SPL in the 30-40hz range between 2 IDMAX 15s or 3 JL 12W6V2s both in IB Configuration with 4000RMS on tap.......don't have to use it all....... what would you guess?
> 
> P.S. I'm not looking for an SPL setup, hence IB, but output is important to me and i listen to alot of Soca, Reggae, and Dancehall which has alot of output in the 30-40hz range.


Assuming 4kw will push either setup to xmax, the pair of IDMax 15s will get louder on the low end. It would take 6 12W6s to equal the output down low. 

I know you're not looking for lots of output but IB will get just as loud as sealed but with less power required. I can't imagine using even half of that 4kw. Especially considering one member already hit 154db on 700w total with a pair of them IB which is insane.


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## DonH

I would advise against 2000rms per driver... that is a lot of power for those drivers.


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## SilkySlim

DonH said:


> I would advise against 2000rms per driver... that is a lot of power for those drivers.


I would definitely concur. You can get plenty of output at around 700-1k per driver. I would be real shy about putting more than that IB. I think they will handle around 1.2- 1.5 tuned back with plenty of headroom. 

I have played quite abit of those types of music and the excel at that 30-40 range. I just was assaulted by them on a car ride across town by them listening to eyes on fire by blue foundation. It was great to let the beast out every once in awhile. 

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## carfreak1024

I was just saying what i have on tap to use. But Don if you know what you are doing you can put that much on it. When i worked at an Image dealer a couple years back we used a US Amps VLX3DE on a single IDMAX12D2V2 @ 1 ohm. She did a 145 at 34hz i believe from a single 12. We also did 2 Image Dynamics ID8D2s in the same car on the same day with a US Amps 1000d wired at 2 ohms so 500RMS and it did a 140 flat at 41hz. That was our first time ever on a termlab. Image makes great stuff that handle alot of power, it just has to be clean and tuned properly.


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## SilkySlim

What size box was that for the eights?? Do you remember? 

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## carfreak1024

SilkySlim said:


> What size box was that for the eights?? Do you remember?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


I still have it....technically.... but it is in Trinidad where i am from so i cant tell you exactly but i believe it was 1.5 cubic feet tuned to 30hz. It did that score in a Nissan Wingroad Wagon off of a US Amps/RE Audio DTS1500.1 @ 2 Ohms. I think i have a picture.....let me see if i can find it.


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## carfreak1024

This is the first score out the gate with the 2 8s in the box we tried higher frequencies first but it was better down at 41hz than up high at 55. Trying to find pics on FB of the final score with the box but cant.


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## carfreak1024

Same install this time with 3 ID8s on the DTS1500.1 @ 1.3OHM resting and it hit a 143db on the termlab at 45HZ. wish i had more proof because of how amazing this setup sounded. There are some videos floating around youtube of it at a car show doing cup tricks and so on with 3 8s on less than 1000RMS. It broke the rear view mirror in the car straight off the windshield and would turn the indicators on by itself, make the RPM jump up and down. It would unload below 35hz but it was designed for SPL to show what ID can do. All equipment was sponsored by the shop i worked at to promote ID at car s shows.

























As you can see it always got the job done, no one thought it was really a couple 8" subs which really don't look at all devious. lol


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## SilkySlim

DonH said:


> parts for the IDQ 8" and IDQs6.5" are on the way as I type!


Sure SONY (soon only not yet) syndrome. LOL 

Just get it right I would rather wait for an ideal than have a less than ideal now. 

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## DonH

The q 8 will be in my truck asap mode once we get parts... that's how excited I am for it  

In all honesty, the slim line will be great, but the q8 is just dashing! Looks great, sounds great, field recone. Feautres the same size coil as the 10 and 12 and has the 10 motor. Few tweaks to the spider rolls but same basket look as the big brothers. It's a fun one. Did I forget to mention, your talking to 1 of 2 people that build them: )


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## SilkySlim

LOL I have been begging for that driver for many many months. What are you doing talking here build me a sub!   LOL. I can't wait to try them what size enclosure sealed are we looking @ for those I'm thinking this will go in the newer family wagon we are planning to get. Already hearing about how much room I'm going to take up. This coming from my wife who was a bass player in a band. Go figure.

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## BuickGN

I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve although it will be more like just under 3 weeks. I'm really excited to try these subs out. 

I was really cranking the IB15s today and I have to admit I'm a little nervous replacing such an awesome set of subs. After critically listening I must be crazy with the sound quality and detail. But I'm getting bored and it sounds like me and Greg are describing the same thing that might be missing from the IB15s and something that was there with the W6/W7s I've run IB. It's not immediately apparent, it took a year for me to kind of put my finger on it. I remember even the single 12W6 having incredible punch or slam. The IB15s have a great 80-100hz hit and they have a bit of a "pro audio" sound when crossed over high. There's just this certain type of punch it's missing. I hope it's not a simple FR issue but I've adjusted EQ and crossover points along with TA for over a year now. 

It sounds like the Max15 is the cure. I'm just rambling along, don't mind me. I'm still trying to convince myself I made the right decision even though I'm pretty sure it's the right one. I probably would have done 3 13W7s if I could have fit them but I already know how awesome they sound so I think it's time to try something new. I'm not good with change but these should be everything I could ever want. 

I also want to RTA these against the 3 12" Maxes IB done by Erin (I think) years ago. It would be neat to compare the FR between the 12s and 15s although with them being in different cars it makes the comparison not exactly fair but it might still be fun. Hopefully that old thread is still here. 

I've fallen asleep literally 5+ times while trying to submit this post, I think it's time to call it a night and hopefully it won't be too embarrassing tomorrow.


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## DonH

Get them installed man


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## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve although it will be more like just under 3 weeks. I'm really excited to try these subs out.
> 
> I was really cranking the IB15s today and I have to admit I'm a little nervous replacing such an awesome set of subs. After critically listening I must be crazy with the sound quality and detail. But I'm getting bored and it sounds like me and Greg are describing the same thing that might be missing from the IB15s and something that was there with the W6/W7s I've run IB. It's not immediately apparent, it took a year for me to kind of put my finger on it. I remember even the single 12W6 having incredible punch or slam. The IB15s have a great 80-100hz hit and they have a bit of a "pro audio" sound when crossed over high. There's just this certain type of punch it's missing. I hope it's not a simple FR issue but I've adjusted EQ and crossover points along with TA for over a year now.
> 
> It sounds like the Max15 is the cure. I'm just rambling along, don't mind me. I'm still trying to convince myself I made the right decision even though I'm pretty sure it's the right one. I probably would have done 3 13W7s if I could have fit them but I already know how awesome they sound so I think it's time to try something new. I'm not good with change but these should be everything I could ever want.
> 
> I also want to RTA these against the 3 12" Maxes IB done by Erin (I think) years ago. It would be neat to compare the FR between the 12s and 15s although with them being in different cars it makes the comparison not exactly fair but it might still be fun. Hopefully that old thread is still here.
> 
> I've fallen asleep literally 5+ times while trying to submit this post, I think it's time to call it a night and hopefully it won't be too embarrassing tomorrow.


I have had way to many of those post between the 5-10 min of tune im squeezing in to write it and Swype I am I'm surprised they are even readable. I'm usually writing them inbetween loading my programming or while calibrating a room. LOL
I think you'll be happy happy happy. I think the best way to describe these are they are a perfectly good mix between what the w6's do well with there tighter punchyness and the -W7's low end grunt. I hope that helps. 
BTW I am rethinking my idea to add more power I think I may have gotten to excited and knocked something loose in my brain today. The sub amp I am running is an Old School LANZAR Opti 50C in a 1 ohm load mono so it's been dyno'd @ around 700 watts in that config. Thinking about dropping a Opti 2500 to each one in a 2ohm mono but that may just be way too much. Thinking out loud maybe doing the pair of 2500's in an 8 ohm mono will be perfect. Guess I should have gone D2's. That may have been perfect.

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## SilkySlim

Don BTW any idea about when the IDQS 10's or 12's will be ready? End of summer?

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## DonH

SilkySlim said:


> Don BTW any idea about when the IDQS 10's or 12's will be ready? End of summer?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


Sadly, yes end of summer time. After listening to the s8 10 and 12 I felt alot was lacking in the sq department. We are currently looking into a different softpart assembly and motor design. Just dnt want to rsh out a crappy piece of equipment. I base my shallow sub SQ off of the SI mkIII  love that damn sub


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## SilkySlim

That is good stuff cool.

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## rton20s

DonH said:


> Sadly, yes end of summer time. After listening to the s8 10 and 12 I felt alot was lacking in the sq department. We are currently looking into a different softpart assembly and motor design. Just dnt want to rsh out a crappy piece of equipment. I base my shallow sub SQ off of the SI mkIII  love that damn sub


Well, now you have to pick up a SI BM MkIV for a new reference.


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## DonH

rton20s said:


> Well, now you have to pick up a SI BM MkIV for a new reference.


wish I could  I have the mkIII sitting in my room


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## kaigoss69

^^^ I agree with just about everything that has been said so far. I used to run a single SBP-15 and I concur, it lacks a little bit of the punch and "brutality" of the IDMax. The Max, even though not even close to broken in, plays everything you throw at it so effortlessly, and there just is this unbelievable amount of authority in every note, even at low volume levels, that makes you wanna sit in your driveway until the gas runs out!  Great job ID, this sub is a winner!


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## SilkySlim

Well said. I have to say that if this is a glimpse of the direction they are moving then we all have to be very excited.
I am amazed at the weight and impact of the without being bloated or peaky. This sub is a homerun. Mine are just starting to stretch there legs. I think if I give them much more I'll have more concussion symptoms than a professional heavyweight boxer.

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## DonH

We really appreciate all the love guys! Trust me, over this summer look for some big things to come from us! exciting news! untill then, keep on reviewing the drivers! Im trying to get the big man to purchase a account here so we can have our own forum section again that I can moderate on to answer your guys questions etc. Once again thank you guys for the support


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> I don't think it's and FR issue with those subs I tuned my system six ways to sunday and it didn't cure it. If I had to guess I think they lack some natural punch in the 40-50Hz range and excel at 30-20Hz. Thats why were both saying something is missing call it depth or punch. I described them as being little bit airy meaning light, without weight or depth to it. Regardless, We both hear it (or don't in this case). Yes, we're being very picky and super critical and maybe most other people wouldn't pick up on it, notice or even care. But what matters is what we hear. So I don't think your crazy at all for wanting to try something different.
> The Max15 has a lot of natural punch at 40Hz imo it's the sweet spot for it and it doesn't give up anything at the very low end either. I've been playing a lot of my familar reference tracks and I just go wow that sounds really good. I don't typically listen to Rap music but it sounds really, really good with this sub. I think a great example that demonstrates the difference between the IB15s and Max15 is the song by Three Six mafia - ghetto chick if you don't have it go download it. Listen to it with your current IB15's then play it with the Max15's. I gaurantee you wont walk away thinking something was missing or it lacked any depth to it.


That definitely makes me feel better and it does sound like we're trying to describe the same thing. I think that's what I missed about the JL subs I had before.

I just bumped 40hz a good bit. Even tried 30hz and 50hz. Just couldn't get what I was looking for. Maybe it's a lack of distortion, who knows , but I have a feeling I'll like the new subs.


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## kaigoss69

For those who think they need two...I just came back from the car because my ears were hurting, and I think I didn't even get close to giving that sucker the full 500w.


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## DBlevel

kaigoss69 said:


> For those who think they need two...I just came back from the car because my ears were hurting, and I think I didn't even get close to giving that sucker the full 500w.



I haven't even pushed my pair very hard yet.


Maybe soon 


Will more than likely happen when I can get time to meet up with SilkySlim one of these days.............


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## Hoptologist

All this IDMAX15 talk is really arousing my interest. 

Really want to hear one, or two.


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## BuickGN

I need two for sure. Think about how low distortion will be with the pair using half as much excursion as a single for the same output. With the very high cone area for a 15, the pair will rarely see more than a couple mm excursion. With 28mm linear excursion available, it's safe to say even when you're bassing out you're going to be in their linear range at all times. With nearly 44mm of one way maximum excursion I can't imagine how hard it would be to push one of these to their physical limits and how loud it would be. I think it's time to plug these into WinISD


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## BuickGN

Hoptologist said:


> All this IDMAX15 talk is really arousing my interest.
> 
> Really want to hear one, or two.


I should have mine installed in under a month. Let me know if you're going to be in the area or I can meet you half way. I have no idea what it's going to sound like but hopefully it's going to sound good.


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## SilkySlim

DBlevel said:


> I haven't even pushed my pair very hard yet.
> 
> 
> Maybe soon
> 
> 
> Will more than likely happen when I can get time to meet up with SilkySlim one of these days.............


You got it man. I'll throw a meter in and we can see what's what.

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## SilkySlim

gregerst22 said:


> It'll sound good.  You'll have to hear them for yourself. I just spent another 2 hours in the garage playing a lot of different music and there's nothing I can nitpick about this sub yet. Playing from 55Hz down I'm not feeling like it's lacking anywhere. Actually the entire system I have now sounds as close to perfect to me as I've ever had. I'm very pleased with it as it stands now.


Well said. It is one sub set-up that continues to surprise and impress me no matter what I ask it to do. The more listen and I try to nit pick the more I like it.

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## moparman79

These are some nice real world experience reviews I'm hearing on here. Ive sold a few of these, but I need to test one of these out in the car.


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## BuickGN

This is a little disappointing. After modeling the Max15 vs the IB15, even if I added a second HD750/1 for a total of 1500w, the Max would not get as loud as my IB15s on only 750w total. That's just not something I'm willing to give up. 

At their rms power rating, they can't hit xmax. This is very disappointing as I was really looking forward to trying these. I don't see how it's possible to be incapable of hitting xmax in IB at rated power. Hopefully something is wrong with the program but I've checked and rechecked. 

For what it's worth, I could not find mms anywhere but after entering the parameters I do have, the program showed mms to be 338 which is more than twice as heavy as my current 15s. 

Can anyone comment on excursion vs the power they're being fed? Right now it looks like the Max 15s need 2,000w total to get as loud as the IB15s are on 750w total. Is this possible? WinISD shows efficiency of the Max at 88.34db and the IB15 at 90.67db. 

So by buying these subs and doubling my power I'm looking at just a little less output than I currently have. I was so excited.


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## thehatedguy

I wouldn't believe winISD in this case or purpose.


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## BuickGN

thehatedguy said:


> I wouldn't believe winISD in this case or purpose.


I really hope you're right. 

I ran into one other case where the 13W7 would not hit xmax at it's rms power rating in WinISD yet in real life, 500w gave some pretty scary excursion. That was IB by the way.


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## Hoptologist

Real life ftw, do it BuickGN


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## SilkySlim

Don't believe the program. Try them you won't be disappointed. I wish you weren't on the other side of the continent. We'd have more options.
My vote is after seeing what they have done with this Maxx 15. I would love to top see a Q 15 and bring back a reg. ID 15. That would be awesome. 

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## rton20s

Hoptologist said:


> All this IDMAX15 talk is really arousing my interest.
> 
> Really want to hear one, or two.


Are there any ID dealers left in Fresno/Clovis? I'm pretty sure the dealer in Visalia dropped them shortly after E.S. left. Not sure if anyone else local is planning to pick them up. 



BuickGN said:


> I should have mine installed in under a month. Let me know if you're going to be in the area or I can meet you half way. I have no idea what it's going to sound like but hopefully it's going to sound good.


I'm about half way and would be happy to play "host." And I would finally get me a chance to hear your car. I won't hold my breath though.


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## BuickGN

We're bound to meet up eventually. I might be switching over to Arc SE amps at about the same time I swap out the subs. Hopefully it will be an overall improvement.


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## DonH

rton20s said:


> Are there any ID dealers left in Fresno/Clovis? I'm pretty sure the dealer in Visalia dropped them shortly after E.S. left. Not sure if anyone else local is planning to pick them up.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm about half way and would be happy to play "host." And I would finally get me a chance to hear your car. I won't hold my breath though.


I can ask our sales guy if we have a dealer in that area. You also can purchase online


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## kaigoss69

I bought mine from an authorized dealer who is a forum member here. I got a great price and next day shipping!


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## rton20s

DonH said:


> I can ask our sales guy if we have a dealer in that area. You also can purchase online


Its more about getting demo them than the ability to purchase.  I appreciate you checking into it though.


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## BuickGN

I'm going to start a thread about this because I don't want to ruin this thread but I have a quick question. Has anyone run into a case where WinISD was wrong. I believe I have with the 13W7. I modeled it in a 20' box to simulate IB and according to the program it hit maximum rated power before it hit xmax. I know this is not true because I've seen pictures of them in a small sealed box with the surround completely stretched out for all it's worth. 

I also took a chance and tried one IB and at 500w around 20hz going by eyeball it had to be getting close to it's 32mm one way xmax so WinISD was wrong in that case. I just wonder why it's that far off and how often does this happen. 

I know I'm being annoying but I don't want to spend over a grand on something that's going to require double the power and not get any louder than what I already have. I'm pretty sure by the reviews on here that the program is wrong. The only thing that makes me think maybe the program is right is 87db vs 90db efficiency. 

I'm really interested in Gregerst22's opinion since he went from the pair of IB15s to a single Max15. All I need is a little reassurance. I've got about 11 days till I pull the trigger on these subs and some Arc SE amps so I'm excited but worried that neither is going to make a difference over what I have now and I really don't want to spend almost $4k for nothing, that's why I'm so worried.


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## SilkySlim

customaudioman said:


> These are some nice real world experience reviews I'm hearing on here. Ive sold a few of these, but I need to test one of these out in the car.


I haven't been disappointed yet! 

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## cubdenno

Because car IB tends to not be true IB it can be problematic to model. So take all with a grain of salt. Also the ID should have a heavier coil and cone so should be less efficient than then AE IB driver. Where the ID driver should shine is in the total output department with the greater Xmax. 

Again this is all hypothesis. Without accurate third party numbers on the ID driver it's all a hypothesis anyway. I would love to see klippel numbers on the ID drivers.


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## tyroneshoes

What is the cutout size for the idq 8?


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## BuickGN

cubdenno said:


> Because car IB tends to not be true IB it can be problematic to model. So take all with a grain of salt. Also the ID should have a heavier coil and cone so should be less efficient than then AE IB driver. Where the ID driver should shine is in the total output department with the greater Xmax.
> 
> Again this is all hypothesis. Without accurate third party numbers on the ID driver it's all a hypothesis anyway. I would love to see klippel numbers on the ID drivers.


I agree but the IDs do to change much from 9-20 cubes. I modeled it in 100 cubes and it was the same thing. At 1200w in free air it could not hit xmax even at 20 hz. That doesn't seem right and I'm really hoping the program is wrong. Mms is around 320g if I remember right according to WinISD. All of the others besides inductsnce are published. 

Can someone else model these subs to see if I'm full if crap? Maybe a different program like bass box?

Time is counting down. I will have a new pair of subs in just over a week. I really want these but I'm not opposed to going to a pair of 13W7s. I would really like to hear from Greg about his power vs excursion. Help! Lol.


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> Maybe it'll be good idea to remind you of some of the reasons why the IB15 such a great subwoofer Of course it's amazingly efficient, it dosen't take a lot of watts to push them close to xmax. They were designed specifically for IB, they sound super clean and smooth with very little audible distortion. It's truly a great IB sub. I don't think there's another sub that can do what it does better. But as we've discussed before for all it's good qualities they lack a certain depth that other drivers like the Max15 has. My theory on that is the IB15 is so efficient, quick and light that some of the sub bass we're used to hearing gets lost. Other subs are slower (by ms) therfore some bass notes are slighty more drawn out which results in the depth were talking about. Maybe the IB15 is technically more accurate and maybe it's not? All we know is it sounds a bit different than other subs.
> The Max15 is an entirely different animal. It's big, heavy (cone twice as heavy, motor/coil?) and not as nearly as efficient with power, it needs a lot (750w or 1000 watts each if you want some extra head room). In addition the back wave should be vented to the outside as much as possible by exposing or even removing the air vents in the trunk. This will help with 20Hz (+2db) and lets the sub move more freely. In my honest opinion the single Max15 has the same or nearly the same output of both IB15's that I had before. Granted I'm having to push it pretty hard at high volume and you already know I'm giving it a lot of power. So yes two Max15s could definitely crush the IB15's in terms of output. I think going with two of them is wise if for no other reason than to keep any distortion to a minimum. I understand your nervousness about switching. The IB15s are fantastic subs. I almost kept mine only because I didn't want to part with them even though I had no use for them. Maybe it's worth waiting until you get a chance to hear the Max15 before you decide?


Thank you. I didn't see this before I just posted. I'm sold on the sound quality of the Max, no problem there. 

Literally the only thing that scares me is potential incredible inefficiency compared to the IB15. Do you think yours is getting close to 28mm one way excursion? You have around 1,500w on it, right?


----------



## BuickGN

Thanks, that would answer a lot of questions for me. I appreciate it.


----------



## BuickGN

Awesome! So 1300w will push one at least to xmax which is over 10mm more than the IB15s linear limit and past the IB15s mechanical limit. That's not to mention the additional 115cm^2 of cone area. 

It sounds like you might have some power left untapped as well. 

That helps a lot, I think I'm going to go through with my original plan to get these but maybe go with a pair of 1200/1s instead of my single 750/1. 

Glad you didn't hurt your sub. I was just thinking that with a pair of these I gain 3 db at the same power over a single, right? And it takes double the power to get a 3db gain, so does that mean a pair of these on 750 w would get as loud as a single on 1500w? 

And also, if I add just another 750/1 that would be a 6db gain over a single sub on 750w, right? Maybe dual 750s would be enough. 

On another note I think I've learned I like subs with a great suspension and long, flat Bl curve over the low inductance subs. Ever since we've talked about that missing punch from the IB15s I've been focusing on it. I think it fooled me at first because it goes low so effortlessly and it has great midbass punch at 100hz. It's just missing that one thing and it's more noticeable now that I know what to look for. I now know for sure why I liked the 12W6 better in certain situations.

Edit: Just went looking at amps. I may have to stray away from the HDs this time. The Alpine MRX-M240 puts out 2,400-2,800w at 2 ohms, it's class D and it's only $550. It would cost over $ 2k to get the same power out of an HD. Judging from the above post that 1,300w can push these subs to xmax and even beyond, 2,600w should be perfect. That should give me all of the punch I could want.


----------



## palldat

I plan on upgrading my sub power from 500W ( jl audio hd900/5) to the jl audio hd1200/1. My sub is the IDQ12.4v4. 

What would be the best way to wire this up? I know it will need to be toned down since the rated power for the woofer is 750. I am running it in a sealed box (1.60^3). Looking to get more volume but maintain control of the woofer.

Any ideas?


----------



## BuickGN

palldat said:


> I plan on upgrading my sub power from 500W ( jl audio hd900/5) to the jl audio hd1200/1. My sub is the IDQ12.4v4.
> 
> What would be the best way to wire this up? I know it will need to be toned down since the rated power for the woofer is 750. I am running it in a sealed box (1.60^3). Looking to get more volume but maintain control of the woofer.
> 
> Any ideas?


Control?

If you want more low end and more control (or damping if damping is what you mean by control) just go with a larger sealed box. If you want double the output and good sound quality without spending money on a new amp, go with a low tuned ported box.


----------



## moparman79

I'm going to try these out with a 4k watt mono block GZ Plutonium amp. That will be insane with that good power.


----------



## palldat

BuickGN said:


> Control?
> 
> If you want more low end and more control (or damping if damping is what you mean by control) just go with a larger sealed box. If you want double the output and good sound quality without spending money on a new amp, go with a low tuned ported box.


Thanks for the feedback. Yes I don't want to overdrive the speaker but make it work as efficiently as possible. It says that it can do 1.8 on sealed. I did have a 1.2 before and the switch to the 1.6 was noticeable in the smoothness of the low end.

I am not ready to play with ported.

I guess paft of what I want to know is how is this driver with higher power?


----------



## Coppertone

customaudioman said:


> I'm going to try these out with a 4k watt mono block GZ Plutonium amp. That will be insane with that good power.


Wow lol, now that right there is just insane do it Howard and make us proud.


----------



## DBlevel

I like the lighting! Looks awesome!


----------



## Hoptologist

I've been following this thread through email notifications, somehow I missed these responses.



BuickGN said:


> I should have mine installed in under a month. Let me know if you're going to be in the area or I can meet you half way. I have no idea what it's going to sound like but hopefully it's going to sound good.


Could we just swap rides for a week? There are at least a few hundred songs I'd love to hear on the Esotars and an IB setup 

My GF constantly complains about my not letting us put anything in the trunk hehe, and I'm sure my friends are tired of sitting in a pile of luggage when we go on road trips  Of course the obvious answer is to get some speaker grills, but it would be more fun to try out an IB setup, and the IDMAX 15's seem perfect for it.



rton20s said:


> Are there any ID dealers left in Fresno/Clovis? I'm pretty sure the dealer in Visalia dropped them shortly after E.S. left. Not sure if anyone else local is planning to pick them up.
> 
> I'm about half way and would be happy to play "host." And I would finally get me a chance to hear your car. I won't hold my breath though.


I just checked online, seems there are 2 in Fresno, but I've never heard of them- Drive Customs and Mark's Audio. Uhhh, upon second look, I see that Drive Customs is located in SLO, and Mark's Audio is in Lindsey, yet the markers are both placed in Fresno on the ID website... Don?? I started clicking around for fun, and Modesto's marker says Extreme Connections in Fresno, so I guess I found one, although their website is down lol. 

Anyways, Rob still really wants to hold a get together, but as far as a date goes, yeah, don't hold your breathe on that either :tongue2:


----------



## BuickGN

Hoptologist said:


> I've been following this thread through email notifications, somehow I missed these responses.
> 
> 
> 
> Could we just swap rides for a week? There are at least a few hundred songs I'd love to hear on the Esotars and an IB setup
> 
> My GF constantly complains about my not letting us put anything in the trunk hehe, and I'm sure my friends are tired of sitting in a pile of luggage when we go on road trips  Of course the obvious answer is to get some speaker grills, but it would be more fun to try out an IB setup, and the IDMAX 15's seem perfect for it.
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked online, seems there are 2 in Fresno, but I've never heard of them- Drive Customs and Mark's Audio. Uhhh, upon second look, I see that Drive Customs is located in SLO, and Mark's Audio is in Lindsey, yet the markers are both placed in Fresno on the ID website... Don?? I started clicking around for fun, and Modesto's marker says Extreme Connections in Fresno, so I guess I found one, although their website is down lol.
> 
> Anyways, Rob still really wants to hold a get together, but as far as a date goes, yeah, don't hold your breathe on that either :tongue2:



You're welcome to take the car for a week. My daily drive is only 3 miles round trip and once my new bike comes in I'll probably be pedaling to work. It might give a better idea of what IB is all about. 

Today I went to get groceries and started to put them in the back seat because I had a box in the trunk for so many years. I even drove my fiancées tires to the tire store in the trunk to get them mounted and they are large tires. These subs are 7" deep but it doesn't seem like you even lose that much room.


----------



## Arete

What is the recommend sealed box size for the IDMax 15? Has anyone heard it in a sealed enclosure yet? Last question.... Im going to run the exodus anarchy 6.5s for midbass. Do you guys think the Max15 would compliment these drivers well? Thanks.


----------



## Arete

gregerst22 said:


> 2 - 3 cubes recommended. 3 cu ft for SQ. I haven't heard the anarchys but they supposedly have a lot of output so they should do well with the Max15. I haven't heard sealed but it should sound similar to what IB does it just doesn't go down as low.


Yes that is what I read on the site. I was curious as to why the larger box ( 3cuft )is considered the "audiophile" enclosure. How would the sound be different with the smaller box? Say 2 cu. ft. ??


----------



## BuickGN

Arete said:


> Yes that is what I read on the site. I was curious as to why the larger box ( 3cuft )is considered the "audiophile" enclosure. How would the sound be different with the smaller box? Say 2 cu. ft. ??


Bigger usually sounds better overall. It will play deeper with a more effortless sound. It will be less prone to the boomy sound of smaller enclosures. It will sound tight and quick but dig deep. It's the kind if setup that plays all types of music well, not just good at rap or rock. It also requires less power on the low notes. 

One thing that many don't realize is the larger the sealed enclosure all the way to infinite baffle, the more cone control the sub has. The air spring of a small sealed box reduces both cone control and efficiency. 

The upside isn't really an upside in my opinion. A smaller box means it can handle more power mechanically. However, it does this by making it less efficient by physically restraining the cone with the air spring. It limits excursion so you can feed it more power without bottoming. The problem is excursion is what determines output. Instead of increasing power handling by restricting the cone, you should go for the most excursion with the least power applied. Two identical speakers both with the same excursion will have the same output regardless of whether one requires 1,000w to do it in a small sealed enclosure or 200w infinite baffle. 

If you need to run more power to the sub to increase that 40-63hz punch but the sub runs out of excursion on the low end, you can use EQ or a subsonic filter to limit the low end as a sealed enclosure does while retaining the efficiency of a larger enclosure. 

If I were going to run an enclosure, if IB were not an option, I would t consider sealed. It would be ported, there are too many advantages of a ported setup to run sealed if you can fit the slightly larger box. That's kind of a blanket statement but mostly true.


----------



## Bluenote

GN your probably the most prolific person I've seen on the forum when it comes to subwoofers!


----------



## J.novak

Honestly, I'd contact your dealer. If your attempt to repair makes the situation worse, they can easily deny a claim.


----------



## SilkySlim

J.novak said:


> Honestly, I'd contact your dealer. If your attempt to repair makes the situation worse, they can easily deny a claim.


Exactly what he said. That sucks.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## kaigoss69

That will make me hold off (for now) on purchasing a more powerful amp. I think it gets loud enough for me anyway, with 500W. I hope you get that problem taken care of Gregerst22. I'm sure ID won't let you down.


----------



## moparman79

Yep just send it back to dealer, they should just send you another out from their stock or straight from ID. As long as you got it from an authorized dealer, your good to go.


----------



## BuickGN

Bluenote said:


> GN your probably the most prolific person I've seen on the forum when it comes to subwoofers!


Lol. I'm still a noob but thanks. 



gregerst22 said:


> yup, agree. I already have it back in the box. I'm disappointed to say the least.


That's crazy. I haven't checked this thread in a while and I saw a big red X over the sub in your sig and scrolled as quickly as I could. I hope it's an isolated incident. Hopefully they get you fixed up quickly.


----------



## DonH

Contact your dealer asap, and we will take care of it. I'm very sorry that happened! When you contact your dealer send me a pm and let me know what dealer so I can relay it to our RA guy so we can get a recone kit out ASAP. THIS should,not have happened. We are very sorry


----------



## J.novak

DonH said:


> Contact your dealer asap, and we will take care of it. I'm very sorry that happened! When you contact your dealer send me a pm and let me know what dealer so I can relay it to our RA guy so we can get a recone kit out ASAP. THIS should,not have happened. We are very sorry




That right there makes me greatfull that I purchased an image dynamics product. These days, customer service like this is not easily found. Thank you, Don, for taking time to make sure this gets resolved.


----------



## BuickGN

So you have a whole sub on the way, not just a recone kit? That's great news.


----------



## Golden Ear

gregerst22 said:


> yea. not an IDMax though.. wife is picking it up right now she was already at Walmart buying some dish soap and potato chips I called her and said honey while your there can you get me one of those KICKER subs, they're in the isle with the windshield wipers. :rockon:
> 
> -k
> 
> Seriously though, I'll have an IDMax soon.


I lol'd.


----------



## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> yea. not an IDMax though.. wife is picking it up right now she was already at Walmart buying some dish soap and potato chips I called her and said honey while your there can you get me one of those KICKER subs, they're in the isle with the windshield wipers. :rockon:
> 
> -k
> 
> Seriously though, I'll have an IDMax soon.


Lol. I bet even the kicker sounds pretty good IB. Probably a good loss in SPL. I'm actually curious about how it sounds.

Edit: I'm an idiot, I didn't see the last line.


----------



## hurrication

^ L7's sound awesome IB!


----------



## moparman79

Good looking out Don. No brand is immune to things like this happening. It matters how quickly they can resolve the issue when it happens.


----------



## DonH

gregerst22 said:


> Thanks Don. Support like this is one of the main reasons I went with the IDMax. and I already have a new sub on the way!


Wow! Awesome. I will make note of this and adjust how we do our solder joints. Ps pm me, I can give u an idea how to fix it


----------



## DonH

Enough 15 talk... just saw the numbers on the q8d4 and let me say this, me like! Another solid IB contender!

P.s. do people still like the v3? We have some parts actually


----------



## edzyy

8's for Infinite baffle? ehh


----------



## Coppertone

Do people do 8" subs for IB? Not trying to be mean, just am curious is all.


----------



## DonH

Coppertone said:


> Do people do 8" subs for IB? Not trying to be mean, just am curious is all.


Actually, yes. We have a lot of dealers that do them in newer camaros. They use our ID8. This q8 will be a nice addition to our q line. Fill a void. Unfortunately it is an 8 and we all know that a larger cone area and motor force Is wanted. The fact that the q8 can be ran IB makes it more versatile


----------



## Coppertone

I see and can fully understand the market for that size and type of speaker. Can't wait to see when it comes out and a build is done with them.


----------



## BuickGN

edzyy said:


> 8's for Infinite baffle? ehh


Sure....... If it has 100mm one way linear excursion and you use several of them.


----------



## BuickGN

So I hate to be the one to bring this up but for someone who's buying a pair in a few days, do I wait until they revise the soldier joint? If one of mine breaks, a recone kit isn't going to cut it.


----------



## DLO13

out of curiosity... and not of normal conversation on this thread...
Idmax 15 vs 2x JL 13TW5 in a prius. 
Both would be in a sealed enclosure in the spare.

Thoughts?


----------



## DonH

BuickGN said:


> So I hate to be the one to bring this up but for someone who's buying a pair in a few days, do I wait until they revise the soldier joint? If one of mine breaks, a recone kit isn't going to cut it.


its very rare that the CA glue rips off completely like his did. I would not worry at all 

honestly of the hundreds i have built, this is the first one with this problem...


----------



## SilkySlim

DLO13 said:


> out of curiosity... and not of normal conversation on this thread...
> Idmax 15 vs 2x JL 13TW5 in a prius.
> Both would be in a sealed enclosure in the spare.
> 
> Thoughts?


15 all the way!!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

DonH said:


> Enough 15 talk... just saw the numbers on the q8d4 and let me say this, me like! Another solid IB contender!
> 
> P.s. do people still like the v3? We have some parts actually


Soon only not yet. I've been ready show me the 8's.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## Golden Ear

DonH said:


> P.s. do people still like the v3? We have some parts actually


I liked my q12v3 quite a bit actually. Are you thinking of doing a special run for us DIYMA id fans? Depending on price I may be interested.


----------



## DonH

I meant The max v3 good sir. If you are interested, pm me


----------



## BuickGN

DonH said:


> its very rare that the CA glue rips off completely like his did. I would not worry at all
> 
> honestly of the hundreds i have built, this is the first one with this problem...


Sounds good. I hate when people jump all over a brand just because of an isolated failure. I just wanted to make sure it was isolated since running them IB will probably push more excursion than any other setup. Or in other words, I want to make sure IB did not uncover a flaw that might not show up in a sealed or ported setup. I'll probably be ordering mine this Friday.

Thanks.


----------



## Coppertone

^^^ not to derail the thread! but those Trance bikes are a work of art....


----------



## BuickGN

Coppertone said:


> ^^^ not to derail the thread! but those Trance bikes are a work of art....


Thanks! It's my first "real" mountain bike. I actually go to pick it up this Friday, it's been a painfully long 2 weeks to get it in. The shop let me borrow a floor model for a few days and I was hooked. Apparently they're not selling too well, I bought the first one from this shop this year. Now if only my skill level was anywhere near the bike's capabilities lol.


----------



## rton20s

BuickGN said:


> Thanks! It's my first "real" mountain bike. I actually go to pick it up this Friday, it's been a painfully long 2 weeks to get it in. The shop let me borrow a floor model for a few days and I was hooked. Apparently they're not selling too well, I bought the first one from this shop this year. Now if only my skill level was anywhere near the bike's capabilities lol.


I'm in a similar boat. I've got an inexpensive Redline 29er rigid right now, but I'm looking to move into a full suspension 27.5. Riding a rigid 1x8, I'm really looking forward to having more gears and forgiveness in my next ride. Something a little more low end than what you've ordered. Been hoping to get to demo a DB Mission 1 and Norco Fluid 7.1 and Sight Alloy 7.2. I've been to a few shops in Fresno, but none in town yet. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled ID discussion.


----------



## BuickGN

I tried one of the Norcos out and I really liked it. Can't remember which one. We have an awesome dealer here locally. 

Besides all of the other benefits, I found myself riding longer and I didn't feel all beat up after the ride and after I got home. 

I really like the Specialized Stumpjumper EVO for a mid level full suspension. It offers a lot for the price. It's got a better comp set than my bike that costs nearly twice as much. If they had the 2015 27.5" models to test ride I might have gotten one. 

I know we're pretty far away but if you ever want to try out some of the trails here or there, let me know. I only have one friend into mountain biking and he just broke his collar bone. After seeing how bad it can be and how deep he was in the middle if nowhere I'm a little more weary of long rides into the mountains by myself.


----------



## Coppertone

Lol I went to a specialty store before and they had one that they were begging to sell. Offered it to me but I explained to them if I sat on it, it would then become a lowrider lol...


----------



## rton20s

I replied to Buick in PM, so as not to cause too much clutter in here. 

One of the stores I was at was doing everything they could to get me to take a 2 year old Cannondale for 1/2 price, even though it was too big for me. "All that matters is stand over." That is a good way to lose a potential sale.


----------



## LumbermanSVO

DonH said:


> I meant The max v3 good sir. If you are interested, pm me


By that, do you mean you have the parts to recone/rebuild a V3 to original V3 specs? My V3 12's are still working great, but I wouldn't mind having a spare set of cones on hand...

I currently have D4's, could I switch them to D2's and back to D4's as needed?


----------



## DonH

we have very little v3 parts left now... went on a building spree


----------



## DonH

Anyone interested in some,v3 bstocks? 10 and 12s...


----------



## mos805

DonH said:


> Anyone interested in some,v3 bstocks? 10 and 12s...


I might depending on price. Would be a nice alternative from my V2


----------



## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> Just thought I'd report back on my sub issue. I got the new replacement yesterday and I'm back in business. The problem I experienced sounds like it was probably a rare incident but you might want to check with your dealer to find out how they would handle an issue similar to this. I'm really glad I got a new sub instead of having it reconed being as new as it was.
> 
> by the way I didn't even know the wire had broke. since it's dvc and my amp puts out he same power at 4 or 2ohms the output wasn't noticeably lower. I just happened be looking at some other wiring in the trunk with a flash light and noticed it out of the corner of my eye when the light hit it.


Thanks, that makes me feel better...

Well, add me to the list. It's official, I just bought a pair a few minutes ago. Looking very forward to getting them. Not looking forward to installing them. I'm debating putting my IB15s up for sale now or after I have some time with the Max15s to make sure I like them. 

Is yours a dual 2 or 4ohm? I went with the 4, hoping it would work with just about any amplifier and if I don't like them, they will become home subs in a huge ported box and 8 ohm.


----------



## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> Hey that's awesome! Welcome to the Max15 club. I remember you talking about wanting to try different subs last year. The nice thing is you already have your baffle to use as a template for the new one. Cutting the holes is easy especially if you have a router and jasper jig. The jig is well worth the $40 imo. Heck you can use mine if don't have one. Probably only costs a few bucks to ship it to you. I held off on selling my IB15's until I tried the Max first. I think your going to know pretty quickly if they sound good to you. What did you decide on powering them?
> 
> And I went with the dual 4ohm for the same reason you did.


Thanks. It's nice to be part of this club. 

I don't have a router, just a small dremel rotary tool that's painfully slow. Maybe it's time to get a router. I was told Baltic birch might be better than MDF??? Definitely looking forward to already having the baffle shape made. My back is already hurting thinking about the install. The 17lb subs weren't much fun but I think 88lbs worth of subs is really going to suck by myself.


----------



## DonH

hey now, try building them  when it comes time to drop the cores in and glue and screw I have to pinch the top ring and flip the driver over in one nice motion. good thing I have climbers grip and forearms LMAO


----------



## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> Thanks, that makes me feel better...
> 
> Well, add me to the list. It's official, I just bought a pair a few minutes ago. Looking very forward to getting them. Not looking forward to installing them. I'm debating putting my IB15s up for sale now or after I have some time with the Max15s to make sure I like them.
> 
> Is yours a dual 2 or 4ohm? I went with the 4, hoping it would work with just about any amplifier and if I don't like them, they will become home subs in a huge ported box and 8 ohm.


That awesome bro. Can't wait to hear your take on them. I like them much better IB than sealed would like to try them ported to just for giggles. I know you've been torn over this for quite a while!  I am excited for you one of the best decisions I've made. Money well spent for me. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> Thanks. It's nice to be part of this club.
> 
> I don't have a router, just a small dremel rotary tool that's painfully slow. Maybe it's time to get a router. I was told Baltic birch might be better than MDF??? Definitely looking forward to already having the baffle shape made. My back is already hurting thinking about the install. The 17lb subs weren't much fun but I think 88lbs worth of subs is really going to suck by myself.


I used three layers of 3/4 birch/oak and threaded inserts. I'm not the biggest fan of t nuts. They can be used. When I do I recess them in and use a dab of epoxy. Once you mark your center point then just take a padle bit the size of the outer lip of the t nut. Drill to recess the back lip. Then drill out the insert hole. The teeth do work better in plywood than MDF though. I know I get a little ocd on this. Just a thought.

It is much better to have two sets of hands with these for sure!!!!!!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## BuickGN

Just went to hook mine up to power. Only opened one so far. Two of the four push pins are stuck up against the frame, requiring a screw driver to pry them around. Not impressed so far. 

On the bright side, comparing cone movement to the IB15, I'm going to guess these are just as efficient. Its a crude way of comparing efficiency but cone movement seems to be the same if not more in the Max and that doesn't take into account the additional cone area. So that's a plus.


----------



## BuickGN

Forgot, these subs are ridiculously huge for a 15. It's almost funny to look at them. I've taken pictures but it just doesn't show how big they are.


----------



## fish

BuickGN said:


> Forgot, these subs are ridiculously huge for a 15. It's almost funny to look at them. I've taken pictures but it just doesn't show how big they are.


Did you take a side-by-side pic of the ID & AE, or are they still mounted?


----------



## thehatedguy

Post 744 has the pictures...

I mean the AE is a pretty puny sub when it comes to looks.


----------



## BuickGN

fish said:


> Did you take a side-by-side pic of the ID & AE, or are they still mounted?


My IB15s are still mounted. The back seat and bracing is out, subs exposed and probably coming out tomorrow. 

On page 19 (I think) there is a direct side by side comparison and the Max just dwarfs the AE in both diameter and depth. The spider of this thing looks as big as the cone on the AE. 

Plugging them into the same amp channel showed about the same excursion, the Max might have even had more so I'm not worried about efficiency, at least not in the low end. 

Of course, me being a dumbass and pushing the cone with two fingers put two tiny dents in the apparently aluminum dust cap damnit. At least it can't be seen installed and even then you probably wouldn't notice it unless I pointed it out.


----------



## fish

BuickGN said:


> My IB15s are still mounted. The back seat and bracing is out, subs exposed and probably coming out tomorrow.
> 
> On page 19 (I think) there is a direct side by side comparison and the Max just dwarfs the AE in both diameter and depth. The spider of this thing looks as big as the cone on the AE.
> 
> Plugging them into the same amp channel showed about the same excursion, the Max might have even had more so I'm not worried about efficiency, at least not in the low end.
> 
> Of course, me being a dumbass and pushing the cone with two fingers put two tiny dents in the apparently aluminum dust cap damnit. At least it can't be seen installed and even then you probably wouldn't notice it unless I pointed it out.


Thanks guys for directing me to already existing pics. 

And damn that sucks Buick! I think I might've punched myself in the nuts on that one.


----------



## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> One of mine was stuck too. Popped it loose and it was all good. So what are you going to power them with? The same amp? Yup when you see it up close you realize these are big heavy ass subs.


Definitely going to start off with the same amp. I've spent so much money lately on my bike and it's upgrades and a car and these subs that I'm done for a while. Hopefully it gets loud enough. What's-his-name saw what, 145-ish db with a pair of them on only 750w total? If that's the case, I won't be upgrading the amp soon. I mean, I will eventually but not now. I'm actually planning on trying a class AB on the fronts before upgrading the sub amp. Just so much money, I'm feeling more than a little guilty. It's like I lost all self control this month.


----------



## LumbermanSVO

DonH, another quick question. Do you have the spec sheet for the IDQ8's handy? I bought a pair about 10-11 years ago and somewhere along the way I lost the sheet. I haven't used them yet, but I will be installing them soon, hopefully this month. A simple PDF would be great, Thanks!


----------



## DonH

The dust cap is indeed aluminum Buick. Sorry to hear about the dents. We normally don't condone pushing on the cone with your hands. Also sorry about the terminals sticking. If you loosen the screw a little and pull away from the frame then tightening it will work. This issue has been resolved since. Verry sorry. But let me know how it sounds


----------



## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> Definitely going to start off with the same amp. I've spent so much money lately on my bike and it's upgrades and a car and these subs that I'm done for a while. Hopefully it gets loud enough. What's-his-name saw what, 145-ish db with a pair of them on only 750w total? If that's the case, I won't be upgrading the amp soon. I mean, I will eventually but not now. I'm actually planning on trying a class AB on the fronts before upgrading the sub amp. Just so much money, I'm feeling more than a little guilty. It's like I lost all self control this month.


I'm what's his name lol. Glad you pulled the trigger. I doubt you'll be disappointed. 
A few more details. I am running a pair of D4's IB in a 1 ohm mono load on a Lanzar Opti 50C. It's rated at 800 in that config. Many have dynoed and tested it and they ranged 725-798 in that config. with music I'm getting low to mid 140's at the drivers headrest. (The 154 was with turn down for what playing and the Mic was on the dash.) The Lanzar was gone through and freshened up with new power supply and caps. I love it and don't think it could sound much better. I can tell you that it sounds like the maxx's can take more power but I don't think my body can take much more so I think I may leave it as is. I think I would have been happy with a single 2 ohm with the same amp config. 


Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## thehatedguy

Which ones do you have- are the gaskets on the surround cardboard with a rubber surround, or is the gasket and surround one piece? And what impedance are they?

Or just post a picture of them 



LumbermanSVO said:


> DonH, another quick question. Do you have the spec sheet for the IDQ8's handy? I bought a pair about 10-11 years ago and somewhere along the way I lost the sheet. I haven't used them yet, but I will be installing them soon, hopefully this month. A simple PDF would be great, Thanks!


----------



## SilkySlim

gregerst22 said:


> I think that's a good way to do it. See how it does with your current amp first. I've still got 1200w going to mine gain is under half. I was listening to Tom Sawyer today and the bass drum was smacking me real hard in the chest. The pair of IB15's never hit that hard on that song. And I've noticed the sub gets a little better after it's broken in.


Ditto well all but the comparison I've haven't owned the others although I will say the maxx 12 did quite well but I was getting close to its limits I think. I had around the same power from another Opti amp but on a single maxx 12. It got busy. I think I could have put 1- 1.2k on it or 2k on 2 12's and it would have been great. I noticed even more difference in the 12" when it finely broke in! I love the 15's they are in a different league but don't sleep on the 12's if you don't have the money or space. They are fantastic in IB. FYI

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## LumbermanSVO

thehatedguy said:


> Which ones do you have- are the gaskets on the surround cardboard with a rubber surround, or is the gasket and surround one piece? And what impedance are they?
> 
> Or just post a picture of them


They are 4ohm and have the 1 piece gasket. I was told by the shop I bought them from that they were one of the last few to be shipped.


----------



## DBlevel

Back to the 90's................




Silky Slim you still have the Lanzar's on yours?


----------



## SilkySlim

Yep. 
How does it sound amazing I bet.

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## BuickGN

This experience has been disappointing, mine are probably going up for sale after I get the broken one warrantied. They're good for some heavy bass output if you have the power but these are 2 steps back in sound quality compared to the IB15s and I would have to upgrade the entire electrical system to get back the output I lost. They're ok if you cross over 40hz and below but 50hz and above just doesn't sound good and the quick drum hits in many Metallica songs are almost unrecognizable. Maybe the IB15s spoiled me. These sound like most other subs I've tried which isn't bad but I would t label it a as a SQ sub. Maybe I'm try them ported in my HT from 40hz and below. This really sucks as I had high hopes and I'm out a lot of money. 

I am going to give the pair one last shot once I get one that works and tune them for as long as it takes and see what I can get out of them but I suspect they're not going to end up in the car for long. Maybe they will get better with break-in but I'm not holding my breath. 

I hate to give a bad review but these seem more like subs that have very high output potential that will sound ok doing so, they will go boom, but I don't see them as SQ subs. There are some types of music they sound great on but that's because some types of music hides their weak spots. 

Hopefully I'll have something better to say once I get a pair installed and they break in and I have time to EQ them. One problem I have is they roll off quickly after 40hz. Inductance is not published but if it were and I saw that it was super high I would not have bought these subs and they wouldn't be getting a bad review. Maybe inductance can be published to keep people like me away.


----------



## RNBRAD

Sounds like your suspension is still pretty stiff. They will sound totally different after about 10hrs of play time. It's not fair to review a sub till it's completely broken in. My idqv4 sounded pretty bad on initial listening then it tightened up top and smoothed on the bottom after several hours. Give them some time before throwing in the towel.


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## BuickGN

Break-in might help the low end out but it's not going to change electrically. If it's not capable of playing 80hz now it's not going to change after 10hrs or a year. Will a looser suspension help it to reproduce quick drum beats? I doubt it but I would love to be wrong. In this case I will be happy if I'm proved wrong vs having over a grand in paperweights. I'll post back in a few weeks. 

I'll try to say nice things but it's hard right now. There is that overwhelming bass potential, the kind that would impress most people. The kind that feels like it's going to tear the car up. Maybe I'll take the one that works and leave it hooked up to the home system. I really wish the other worked so I could run them reverse polarity 24/7 and not hear it to speed up break-in.

Again, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.


----------



## diatribe

BuickGN, I had a feeling that you already had the best IB drivers in your car. That's why I told you to hold on to them in your FS post. I totally understand wanting to upgrade even though you're perfectly happy with your system. It's just that sometimes it doesn't work out.

Swinging away with Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

That sucks Buick and I'm surprised. But I guess I am not leaning on them for output above 50-63hz other than blending and harmonics my 8" up front pick up from there. They are really just reinforcing the 8" on the low end. I hope break in helps. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## moparman79

Try hooking them up free air on a bench for 2 hrs and feed them a 20hz 
test tone. That will free up the suspension. You should be good to go then.


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## moparman79

What are the subs crossed over at?


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## kaigoss69

I've found 55Hz to be the upper limit for the sub low-pass, everything higher will pull the sub-stage back. This has been true with both the IDMax and the AE SBP-15. As far as low end extension is concerned, the IDMax digs a good bit deeper than the AE and I have not noticed any roll-off whatsoever.


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## SilkySlim

kaigoss69 said:


> I've found 55Hz to be the upper limit for the sub low-pass, everything higher will pull the sub-stage back. This has been true with both the IDMax and the AE SBP-15. As far as low end extension is concerned, the IDMax digs a good bit deeper than the AE and I have not noticed any roll-off whatsoever.


I would agree you can get away with 63hz and even 80 in some vehicles but you usually need a much higher slope to cut down on harmonics. Typically you'll have the subs exciting a panel or something in the roll off frequency range and it's resonant frequency is higher and pulls the stage back. Therefore it it's much easier and reliable to crossover lower. I have found that the tactile sound in a car influences our perceived image because we feel the punch in the back vs. the punch in the chest thanks to the seat transferring the energy to our bodies.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

gregerst22 said:


> Buick, what you're describing is definitely not what I've experienced with these subs. and the way your describing it as having horrible SQ above 40Hz and quick roll off below 40Hz just doesn't seem right at all. In my experience they get a little better after some break in time but nothing drastic. Have you made sure that there aren't any leaks into the cabin? Can you try it with the trunk wide open to see if the SQ changes?


I would agree with a on this also I have played with crossover again and I'm just not getting even remotely similar results. There isn't even a night and day difference between them and my eights. I not going to say from 60-140hz they are just as responsive but it's not that far off. I also can't easily turn off the eights either so some of that could be blending and alignment. Even still unintelligible and unlistenable far from it. That inefficient that you need a major overhaul of the electrical for decent output with classD power? I just don't see it. Something really sounds off. Or I really need to get a set of the IB15's. Maybe a mislabeled VC that is out of phase or something. Baffle something. I know that Buick isn't a rookie and is well versed on IB but something sounds a mis for sure.
Buick how would you compare to a W6 or W7 right now I would wait till break in but I noticed improved linear response, power handling and output after break-in. Very noticeable, more than most. I am just really surprised because I am just not getting anywhere close to similar results. I would just double, triple check everything.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

Not quite sure why it did that but I did get a phone call and three texts during that post.  LOL

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> Buick, what you're describing is definitely not what I've experienced with these subs. and the way your describing it as having horrible SQ above 40Hz and quick roll off below 40Hz just doesn't seem right at all. In my experience they get a little better after some break in time but nothing drastic. Have you made sure that there aren't any leaks into the cabin? Can you try it with the trunk wide open to see if the SQ changes?


The trunk is sealed up surprisingly well to the cabin. I was actually surprised when I pulled the seat out and the braces out and with music playing there was air being forced though the now open bolt holes. Even more surprising is that it does this with my trunk vented to atmosphere.

How do yours sound above 40hz? Which configuration were your voice coils wired in?

I opened the trunk but the car was in the garage and it took all bass away. This is pretty normal in my garage and goes mostly away in the open space. I'll try again outside.



kaigoss69 said:


> I've found 55Hz to be the upper limit for the sub low-pass, everything higher will pull the sub-stage back. This has been true with both the IDMax and the AE SBP-15. As far as low end extension is concerned, the IDMax digs a good bit deeper than the AE and I have not noticed any roll-off whatsoever.


I have zero problems blending the subs with a 100hz lowpass. I run the 9" midbass usually from 65hz to 800hz and the subs up to 100hz. The subs have more impact than any 9" could have but running the 9s down lower keeps bass up front and everything more or less in stereo. 



SilkySlim said:


> I would agree with a on this also I have played with crossover again and I'm just not getting even remotely similar results. There isn't even a night and day difference between them and my eights. I not going to say from 60-140hz they are just as responsive but it's not that far off. I also can't easily turn off the eights either so some of that could be blending and alignment. Even still unintelligible and unlistenable far from it. That inefficient that you need a major overhaul of the electrical for decent output with classD power? I just don't see it. Something really sounds off. Or I really need to get a set of the IB15's. Maybe a mislabeled VC that is out of phase or something. Baffle something. I know that Buick isn't a rookie and is well versed on IB but something sounds a mis for sure.
> Buick how would you compare to a W6 or W7 right now I would wait till break in but I noticed improved linear response, power handling and output after break-in. Very noticeable, more than most. I am just really surprised because I am just not getting anywhere close to similar results. I would just double, triple check everything.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


I was watching cone excursion while playing test tones and on the 750/1 I was only getting a few mm. I even unhooked one voice coil to eliminate any wiring issues and excursion went down a little I think. 

I'm glad everyone is saying my review doesn't match up, it gives me hope. I'll keep everyone updated once I get another sub so I can try out the pair. 

For the others that have had the push teminals rubbing on the frame, did you have to loosen the entire ring that holds the spider on to rotate them?

I began to loosen one of the screws and it was already loose. I immediately tightened it and it never got remotely tight. I'm guessing it's stripped out already.

Hopefully I'll get to the bottom of this and get another sub soon.


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## SilkySlim

First off awesome job sealing off your trunk it sounds like. I loosened the entire frame around the spider as if you are doing a VC swap then slightly adjusted it. Do battery pop on each VC just to verify. Also If that terminal is rubbing or shorting at all it could be causing many issues. Sorry I missed that on an earlier post. It should sound much better than a funky pup!!! I know you have to be frustrated sorry bud stick with it for a little while it's worth it. It sounds like they have the rubbing terminal thing worked out. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## DonH

Made a video today on how to fix the rubbing problem guys. I'll post a link once it's uploaded! So sorry


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## hurrication

SilkySlim said:


> Also If that terminal is rubbing or shorting at all it could be causing many issues.


I have had subs which had a very small short between the terminals and the frame and the sub would still barely play and resistance would read fine at the terminals, but it yielded completely wonky measurements when put on a woofer tester.

Buick, have you tested for continuity between the terminals and the frame? With one of your woofers already being bad for that reason, it could also be a possibility with the one you're using.


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## BuickGN

I'll check the other one. The good one has no rubbing. The bad one sends the amp into protect instantly. 

The problem I have is one of the screws that you loosen to hold the spider seems stripped. I loosened it but it was already loose so I immediately began tightening it to see if it was loose or stripped. It never got tight. I can put a few more turns on it tonight but I didn't want to take any chances. 

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone and thanks for not taking it personally. 

To clarify, some of you have had yours playing north of 80hz with no issue, right?


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## BuickGN

Also, a pair of these hit mid 140s with 750w total, right? That, along with them playing at least to 80hz is going to be the difference in trying to use the. In the car vs selling them or HT.


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## T3mpest

BuickGN said:


> Also, a pair of these hit mid 140s with 750w total, right? That, along with them playing at least to 80hz is going to be the difference in trying to use the. In the car vs selling them or HT.


To me it sounds like you getting more or less what I'd expect.. The two subs take a totally different approach to bass.. The IB15's use a very low Q driver which is generally opposite of what you want in a IB driver but a super soft suspension so FS is low. This gives you a strong motor for high effeciency and shorting rngs so up top you have high effeciency no roll off and a really slow roll off all the way down. Once you throw cabin gain on that, you have a pretty nice overall response.. 

The IDMAX, IIRC doesn't use any rings. It's a bigger coil that can handle more power and a longer thow design. IT's also a higher Q driver. It should sound peakier in the 40-50 region and may have problems playing above that.. It shouldo also have crazy output down low... 

That being said, the IB's probably spoiled you. I had 2 AV15's ported that gave a simiar response as the IB setup you had.. 5 cubes at 25hz is basically your IB's response curve, but with 2-3x the powerhandling thermally and mechanically..  I did fire off my trunk though so it'd be more "rattly" than you IB through the deck I bet. I ran mine with a 125hz crossover and it blended fine. Just playing a 125hz tone on JUST the subs playing it imaged up front.. Not sure how that works Freaked me out when I first tried it lmao


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> It's sucks that you're having these kinds issues. With the first sub being a dud and the second one also potentially having problems it's got to be disappointing. I would think you'd have a lot excursion playing 20Hz test tones with a 750w amp. In my case I've noticed that my second sub, the replacement for the one that had the broken lead, doesn't sound as good as the first one did. It doesn't seem to have quite as much output and isn't as musical as the first one was. I actually wish I would've had the old one fixed instead of getting a replacement. I thought this sub would sound better once it was broken in but it just hasn't improved much yet. On certain music it sounds great but overall the SQ just isn't there. I don't know what the issue is, I have it wired the same way in parallel with the same amp. Maybe I need to give it more time, but I would think that these subs are built consistently and would sound pretty much identical.


That sucks. It seems like QC is in the gutter with these. More than half of the 15" subs in this thread have had problems. I need to buy a woofer tester to get some TS parameters. Or better yet, pay Redrock to klippel the pair to see what we're dealing with.


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## SilkySlim

That would explain it if there are QC issues that cause major t/s swings. I would be surprised if they were that major though. I certainly hope not that would be very disappointing. I'd have tho drop serious coin and go 3 Ultimo's. I'm very happy with mine in my setup. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> I'll check the other one. The good one has no rubbing. The bad one sends the amp into protect instantly.
> 
> The problem I have is one of the screws that you loosen to hold the spider seems stripped. I loosened it but it was already loose so I immediately began tightening it to see if it was loose or stripped. It never got tight. I can put a few more turns on it tonight but I didn't want to take any chances.
> 
> Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone and thanks for not taking it personally.
> 
> To clarify, some of you have had yours playing north of 80hz with no issue, right?


I a/b'd them in a large 3cuft sealed enclosure in a wagon and a set in IB in my car there was a very noticeable difference in output and SQ. They both had similar power. The sealed had a little less. 
The sealed pair in comparison was not nearly as clean and quite muddy in the upper regions. Night and day difference. they also were louder at there peak. They seemed to peak somewhere between 50-60Hz. They were blending with 6 1/2". They sounded much better than most basshead setups but there was a big difference between mine and it. The other thing that stood out was the extension and output 18-35 the output on the IB was much greater, linear, tighter and refined throughout the whole range. 


BuickGN said:


> Also, a pair of these hit mid 140s with 750w total, right? That, along with them playing at least to 80hz is going to be the difference in trying to use the. In the car vs selling them or HT.


Yes 140's at headrest with music. 

Is this in your Grand national? If so I remember that trunk being very small and you saying that how sealed it is. I wonder if you're getting more of the effect of the large sealed vs. a true IB with these. I have a decent size trunk and two large battery vents. Helping to let mine breath better. 
I hope this helps bro. that sucks it's been this tricky.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## SilkySlim

Totally digging the HT idea but hard to justify my mains role off @ 18hz. I still may trying for giggles. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## BuickGN

SilkySlim said:


> I a/b'd them in a large 3cuft sealed enclosure in a wagon and a set in IB in my car there was a very noticeable difference in output and SQ. They both had similar power. The sealed had a little less.
> The sealed pair in comparison was not nearly as clean and quite muddy in the upper regions. Night and day difference. they also were louder at there peak. They seemed to peak somewhere between 50-60Hz. They were blending with 6 1/2". They sounded much better than most basshead setups but there was a big difference between mine and it. The other thing that stood out was the extension and output 18-35 the output on the IB was much greater, linear, tighter and refined throughout the whole range.
> 
> Yes 140's at headrest with music.
> 
> Is this in your Grand national? If so I remember that trunk being very small and you saying that how sealed it is. I wonder if you're getting more of the effect of the large sealed vs. a true IB with these. I have a decent size trunk and two large battery vents. Helping to let mine breath better.
> I hope this helps bro. that sucks it's been this tricky.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


They're in the TL. It's about 16 cubes. I was only playin one sub since the other is broken so I don't think trunk volume is the issue. I removed the stock trunk vents to the outside world and put screen over them so they have a ncie path to the outside world. That's one reason I was surprised at how much air was being forced through the bolt holes between the cabin and trunk. Something I noticed along the same lines when I had the 12W6 was with the trunk open and the stock one-way flaps still installed, they would flap pretty far to the beat of the bass with the trunk wide open and at least 3' between the flaps and the subs. Weird. 

I hope the only QC issue is with the push pins grounding to the frame. If the TS parameters are all over the place, some of us might have a great sounding subs and some of us might not and right now all we have is subjective reviews to differentiate which is not good. I can take it either working or not working. It's the "in between", altered TS parameters that scare me. This is too much money to have sitting in my spare room doing nothing and I'm starting to get pretty annoyed.

That's awesome that yours hit that kind of output with so little power. That would put efficiency on the low end right up there with the IB15. Do you remember at about what frequency that was at? It makes me want to continue on trying with these subs after seeing your experience but knowing I might be wasting several days installing for nothing makes motivation hard to come by. 

I'm also wondering how these subs were factory tested when the terminals are hard grounded to the frame. I'm close to asking for my money back.


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## BuickGN

T3mpest said:


> To me it sounds like you getting more or less what I'd expect.. The two subs take a totally different approach to bass.. The IB15's use a very low Q driver which is generally opposite of what you want in a IB driver but a super soft suspension so FS is low. This gives you a strong motor for high effeciency and shorting rngs so up top you have high effeciency no roll off and a really slow roll off all the way down. Once you throw cabin gain on that, you have a pretty nice overall response..
> 
> The IDMAX, IIRC doesn't use any rings. It's a bigger coil that can handle more power and a longer thow design. IT's also a higher Q driver. It should sound peakier in the 40-50 region and may have problems playing above that.. It shouldo also have crazy output down low...
> 
> That being said, the IB's probably spoiled you. I had 2 AV15's ported that gave a simiar response as the IB setup you had.. 5 cubes at 25hz is basically your IB's response curve, but with 2-3x the powerhandling thermally and mechanically..  I did fire off my trunk though so it'd be more "rattly" than you IB through the deck I bet. I ran mine with a 125hz crossover and it blended fine. Just playing a 125hz tone on JUST the subs playing it imaged up front.. Not sure how that works Freaked me out when I first tried it lmao


I almost waited for the AV15 to reappear and now I'm wishing I had. They have every feature of the IB15s but better in every way. I hear production is starting up currently. I would love to trade these out for the AV model. Only problem is the price is doubled but I'm sure they're no more expensive than the IDMax and odds are they're going to sound a lot better.


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## DonH

BuickGN, yes they were tested. My assembly process has since changed due to the issues that have arose. When I screw in the spider assembly, I terminal to terminal first. I have always done that. then i would check the terminals to make sure they do not touch. then complete the assembly screw in process and move to the next. Little to my knowledge, that upon screwing in the other 6 on the spider landing, it caused atleast one terminal to get sucked towards the basket. son of a *****! sadly I didnt catch this until the first 50 of each that i was rushed to complete shipped off.  im sorry seriously. QC has not dwindled in any means. each woofer is power tested before dust caped for 1 minute. I check for any loose screws causing a sound etc. The drivers that have been below par on QC standards I am very sorry for whether I or my co-worker built it.


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## RNBRAD

Hey Buick, if your listening to just one, what's up with the other hole? You have it filled with a dead sub or did you cover the hole?

Greger, how much time do you have on the sub?


----------



## PureDynamics

RNBRAD said:


> Hey Buick, if your listening to just one, what's up with the other hole? You have it filled with a dead sub or did you cover the hole?
> 
> Greger, how much time do you have on the sub?


I was just thinking the same thing. Did you also put your bracing back?


----------



## hurrication

BuickGN said:


> I need to buy a woofer tester to get some TS parameters.


I highly recommend it. The $100 DATS is by far the best investment I've ever made in the audio realm. A lot of woofers I've tested don't match published specs, and some are even quite a ways off. It's also an incredible tuning tool as you can find the actual tuning of your enclosure, use it as a signal generator or oscilloscope, test resistors, etc.


----------



## edzyy

So, in the realm of things, the new idmax's are hit or miss?


----------



## BuickGN

RNBRAD said:


> Hey Buick, if your listening to just one, what's up with the other hole? You have it filled with a dead sub or did you cover the hole?
> 
> Greger, how much time do you have on the sub?


I screwed a sheet of MDF to the open hole with the Max in there. I'm currently running around with a single IB15 installed and the hole wide open since the system is in limbo. I don't want to refit the other IB15 till I know which direction I'm taking. It sure does sound good and loud for having a 16" hole in the baffle. In fact, it's hard to hear a difference with the hole covered or not. Only I'm the lowest of the lows is there a noticeable loss in output and a change in sound. The giant leak barely makes a difference. 

Oh, almost forgot, I tried it with a Max and an IB in each hole just for the hell of it with both playing and them toggling back and forth between the two. I've never heard two entirely differently sounding subs. Not necessarily in an entirely bad way. The Max does have this kind of bass where I can tell it might make it hard to breathe and make it feel like you're going to blow the windows out. 

For what it's worth I did most of my listening of the Max with the hole plugged. No, it wasn't glued or sealed but it doesn't make a difference.


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## BuickGN

edzyy said:


> So, in the realm of things, the new idmax's are hit or miss?


Seems that way. Did you get my PM from about 2 weeks ago?


----------



## RNBRAD

Ok I was wondering. I'm surprised at no difference with an open hole that size in the baffle? That may be a good demonstration though as probalby don't need to cover every little hole in the baffle like we normally think. I think I'm kinda dumbfounded.


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## edzyy

BuickGN said:


> Seems that way. Did you get my PM from about 2 weeks ago?


I did not


----------



## BuickGN

edzyy said:


> I did not


I'm sorry. Does any of it still apply?


RNBRAD said:


> Ok I was wondering. I'm surprised at no difference with an open hole that size in the baffle? That may be a good demonstration though as probalby don't need to cover every little hole in the baffle like we normally think. I think I'm kinda dumbfounded.


I know, it kind of goes against what we've been taught. I would say output is nearly unchanged but changed pretty drastically 35hz and below. That reminds me or before I sealed the baffle well. There was a barely percievsble improvement in the low-low end. Leaks around the speaker to baffle interface seem to be the worst. I've noticed a bigger change (for the worst and not just on the low end) with the sub not quite all the way flush with the baffle. 

Please keep all of the positive stories coming, it helps with motivation to finish this thing.


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## SilkySlim

Ok so in a TL you will have similar space hang on in there it's bound to get better. I just enjoyed the crap out of mine on the way home.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> I've got about 8 hours on it at moderate volume. I haven't pushed this sub nearly as hard as the first one and maybe that's the difference. I think tonight I'll throw the car charger on and play a 20Hz test tone at 3/4 volume for a couple hours. I think that should loosen it up pretty good.


I'm looking forward to your results. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## BuickGN

SilkySlim said:


> Ok so in a TL you will have similar space hang on in there it's bound to get better. I just enjoyed the crap out of mine on the way home.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


Thanks!


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## RNBRAD

Yea your right in there where they start to open up and sound good. Analogy I use is a new sub sounds like a very cold car, broken in sub performs like when your interior is warm to hot. Cold subs just sound less than optimum, sometimes just down right unpleasant.


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## T3mpest

BuickGN said:


> I'm sorry. Does any of it still apply?
> 
> 
> I know, it kind of goes against what we've been taught. I would say output is nearly unchanged but changed pretty drastically 35hz and below. That reminds me or before I sealed the baffle well. There was a barely percievsble improvement in the low-low end. Leaks around the speaker to baffle interface seem to be the worst. I've noticed a bigger change (for the worst and not just on the low end) with the sub not quite all the way flush with the baffle.
> 
> Please keep all of the positive stories coming, it helps with motivation to finish this thing.


That's bizarre.. I once had large box with passive radiators.. I figured if I pulled one passive out and ran it, I would get basically a large sealed box, but with crappy low end from the "leak" like you expected as well.. Just ran it for a second for fun while I had one out, set the hpf to protect the woofer.. WRONG! Thing ended up being tuned to about 65hz.. With my HPF set at 45 to protect the driver, it was ridiculously loud from 55-65 WINISD showed in 9 cubic feet for that 21, I only needed a .75inch port for a mid 60's tune using a 14.25inch "port".. It said I gained about 10db's at my peak, and I'd say that was pretty accurate because it took that sub to a whole new level of stupid loud for what it was. You could feel the floor vibrating enough to make your feet numb at 60hz.

Surpised with the large trunk airspace your not getting an effect like that. 

edit: *actually perhaps you are, maybe your port is just tuned low.. If it's a double baffle your port is 2x as long as mine and your box is 2x as big, maybe that's what your seeing? 16 cubic foot box with a 14inch aero ends up tuning low enough to mimic your IB more or less? IDK I'm not in front of a box program right now.


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## Primalgeek

DonH said:


> BuickGN, yes they were tested. My assembly process has since changed due to the issues that have arose. When I screw in the spider assembly, I terminal to terminal first. I have always done that. then i would check the terminals to make sure they do not touch. then complete the assembly screw in process and move to the next. Little to my knowledge, that upon screwing in the other 6 on the spider landing, it caused atleast one terminal to get sucked towards the basket. son of a *****! sadly I didnt catch this until the first 50 of each that i was rushed to complete shipped off.  im sorry seriously. QC has not dwindled in any means. each woofer is power tested before dust caped for 1 minute. I check for any loose screws causing a sound etc. The drivers that have been below par on QC standards I am very sorry for whether I or my co-worker built it.


As someone who is in the market for a set of these for a build for next years season, its encouraging to see this kind of response. I can understand that issues occasionally come up and I respect that you respond to this thread and admit when the problem is on your end. Here's to hoping for a great outcome for those that have already jumped on these.


----------



## minbari

DonH said:


> BuickGN, yes they were tested. My assembly process has since changed due to the issues that have arose. When I screw in the spider assembly, I terminal to terminal first. I have always done that. then i would check the terminals to make sure they do not touch. then complete the assembly screw in process and move to the next. Little to my knowledge, that upon screwing in the other 6 on the spider landing, it caused atleast one terminal to get sucked towards the basket. son of a *****! sadly I didnt catch this until the first 50 of each that i was rushed to complete shipped off.  im sorry seriously. QC has not dwindled in any means. each woofer is power tested before dust caped for 1 minute. I check for any loose screws causing a sound etc. The drivers that have been below par on QC standards I am very sorry for whether I or my co-worker built it.


I would honestly want my money back at this point. Shouldnt have to put up with simple QC oversights on a $700 woofer. shorted contacts and stripped screws? come-on.


----------



## hurrication

RNBRAD said:


> Yea your right in there where they start to open up and sound good.


I have never noticed this on new sub installs before where the sub sounds bad until a certain amount of play time and then it starts to come into its own. On some of the different subs I've built in the past, I measured parameters right after assembly and again after half of a day playing max excursion in free air and there have been almost no shift in parameters. So, scientifically it doesn't make sense how this could happen.. unless it's just attributed to psychoacoustics where the listener just "gets used to" the different sound after a little while?


----------



## BuickGN

T3mpest said:


> That's bizarre.. I once had large box with passive radiators.. I figured if I pulled one passive out and ran it, I would get basically a large sealed box, but with crappy low end from the "leak" like you expected as well.. Just ran it for a second for fun while I had one out, set the hpf to protect the woofer.. WRONG! Thing ended up being tuned to about 65hz.. With my HPF set at 45 to protect the driver, it was ridiculously loud from 55-65 WINISD showed in 9 cubic feet for that 21, I only needed a .75inch port for a mid 60's tune using a 14.25inch "port".. It said I gained about 10db's at my peak, and I'd say that was pretty accurate because it took that sub to a whole new level of stupid loud for what it was. You could feel the floor vibrating enough to make your feet numb at 60hz.
> 
> Surpised with the large trunk airspace your not getting an effect like that.
> 
> edit: *actually perhaps you are, maybe your port is just tuned low.. If it's a double baffle your port is 2x as long as mine and your box is 2x as big, maybe that's what your seeing? 16 cubic foot box with a 14inch aero ends up tuning low enough to mimic your IB more or less? IDK I'm not in front of a box program right now.


The single IB15 sounds just as loud as the pair if not louder. I've forgotten several times there was just one playing. If I had an RTA I would be more willing to try different configurations. As of now I've only tried the different setups on tones. That's the only way I know there's a loss in the 35hz and below area.


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## RNBRAD

hurrication said:


> I have never noticed this on new sub installs before where the sub sounds bad until a certain amount of play time and then it starts to come into its own. On some of the different subs I've built in the past, I measured parameters right after assembly and again after half of a day playing max excursion in free air and there have been almost no shift in parameters. So, scientifically it doesn't make sense how this could happen.. unless it's just attributed to psychoacoustics where the listener just "gets used to" the different sound after a little while?


I've never had a sub that didn't sound better with time. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that hasn't heard the difference. Is it pyschoacoustics? I highly doubt we would all experience this phenomenom with the same results. Just push against the suspension of your sub when it's new then do it again after several hours of use. Quite the difference in resistance to movement. Think that could change the sound?

Also some manufacturers address this needed break-in time in their owners manuals.


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## hurrication

Well, what I was saying is that I've pulled tsp's on brand new subs and then re-tested them after hours of max excursion on my bench and there was no more change in specs than the tolerance of the woofer tester. I've noticed softer suspensions on woofers that are many years old, but never on one that is a couple hours old. Not trying to argue, just stating that it doesn't make sense from a numbers standpoint.


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## RNBRAD

Yea I would be curious as to what's going on if the TSP's aren't changing. Your going to need to run one more the a couple hours. I would say 10 hrs minimum. Test one out of the box then run it a few months pull it out and retest. If the tsp doesn't change then what's happening?


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## DonH

gregerst22 said:


> I have my sub playing a 25Hz - 40Hz pink noise track right now. The garage walls are rattling and it can be heard on the other side of the house and probably down the street. I have the trunk and windows open so there's no resistance. I'm going to leave it playing like that for a couple hours. If it makes a difference in SQ, great. If not, then I'm might be looking at going back to a pair of IBs. My first Max15 was fantastic. I just want this one to sound like that one did.


what differences are you experiencing? Its seriously bothersome to me that two drivers sound exponentially different from what you are saying. Im definitely going to be checking our spiders for consistency ASAP. I really hate that these problems are coming up seriously. 

In all honesty, Im not high enough in the company to warrant fixes for you guys. I wish I really could. Honestly! **** I work three days a week. hah! Im just a builder at ID that is trying to keep the company in the loop with our end users / DIYer's but I do not shy away from the negatives like some company's do.

To anyone experiencing problems please PM me so I can compile a a list. Tell me the reason why as well please. dont hold back, just let me know. I, excuse my language, ****ed up on the terminals and should have caught such a problem earlier before the first wave of MAX15's went out. not all of them have the problem thank god. 

-Don


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## SilkySlim

Well said.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## DonH

nicel said gregerst22...

I have never thought about how long break in would take on the drivers, BUT I do know the spider, like on all the MAX's, do take a bit to really break in fully.

On a side note, Im trying to get full Klippel tests done on all our MAX's and Q's... crossing my fingers the big guys pull the trigger and say yes.


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## BuickGN

So I've had mine playing for about 12hrs at 20hz but I don't have the power to push a whole lot if excursion. I also back mounted it in the car much better than before. I also set the EQ to flat where before I had 80-100hz cut a little because the IB15s are so efficient in that range. I also hooked it up full range to the HT. 

Deep bass is so much better now and it has a nice warm, effortless sound. Punch (in the midbass) is much better but it's still a bit lacking compared to the IB15. This isn't a bad thing necessarily because the IB15s can take a bit to be tamed in the 80-100hz range. It seems like break-in worked some kind of magic. The upper end is t what I wanted but at least it's there and I have to keep in mind that sometimes the IB15 had almost too much midbass punch sometimes. 

I love the warm and and effortless sound. This might be more distortion causing the warm sound. Luckily my 9s have all the punch I could ever want and with the less midbass punch if the Max, it almost blends easier with less tuning. 

Running it full range it plays female vocals and you can barely hear a trace of cymbals. They're nowhere near the IB15s where they will play upper midrange frequencies better than a lot of midranges and more efficiently but definitely better than most subs I've tried. 

Efficiency seems a bit better. I can get reasonable output without too much light dimming. 

This is more of an update than a review. It gives me hope that I can get the system sounding great with these subs. If I had to leave a final review right now and it was the last review I could ever do based on what little I've heard, it would be this........

These are not as technically accurate as the IB15, that's obvious with 5 minutes of listening. I'm 99% sure the IB15s would score higher in a competition. I love the IB15s. However, the Max15 is more pleasing to my ears. It has that warmth and it has more emotion (again, probably my due to higher distortion). I'm sure there will be times where I will prefer the technical abilities of the IB15 more not to mention I believe they are more detailed but I don't have enough listening time to say for sure. 

I believe music is made to make you feel something and I believe the Max15 does a better job of conveying that emotion. For listening to music for my own personal enjoyment I almost prefer the Max and I think kicking back and listening to your favorite music, the feeling you get outweighs the technical superiority, at least for me. For a technical session it's the IB15 all the way. I have to say I'm incredibly surprised after a little break-in how good they sound. I don't think two subs could sound more different than these two with both sounding good. 

I think the Dyn 9" midbasses really save the day here because they compliment the subs. Where I felt like the IB15s and the Dyns competed for the lower midbass region and had to tune accordingly, the Dyns fill in what the Max is missing. They give it the detail that the sub itself is missing. As a system it actually works very well and together, the combo is almost as technically as good as the IB15s. I understand now what people mean when they suggest the hit or slam is in the midbasses. I've been so spoiled with the IB15s that have all of the midbass pop you could ever want. In a way I kind of like the Max/Dyn182 combo. I will say that I think a large midbass is a very good idea with these subs. I'm working my 9s pretty hard but it sounds great. Luckily with the Dyns I get the realism that I want with the emotion and detail and technical stuff like staging. I think I like the subs a little on the warm side even if that's wrong. 

So that's it after a very short listening experience and it's subject to change as I get more time. I also need the bad one replaced so I can get on with a proper comparison with a pair Maxes against a pair of IB15s. I'm hoping the additional 3db will be enough additional output to where I can keep my 750/1 because money is becoming tight with a $5k bicycle, a new race car, and the pair of subs all within 2 weeks. I don't think I could come up with the cash for another amp anyway. I wish I had credit cards lol. I shouldn't talk about money issues but I'm getting stressed having a $700 sub here that's unusable. I could put that money to good use elsewhere.


----------



## fish

Buick,

Where do the Dyn 9s start to lose their composure at high volume levels? And what crossover points are you experimenting with? I'm guessing in the range of 40 - 63hz?

And thanks for the comparison above.


----------



## BuickGN

fish said:


> Buick,
> 
> Where do the Dyn 9s start to lose their composure at high volume levels? And what crossover points are you experimenting with? I'm guessing in the range of 40 - 63hz?
> 
> And thanks for the comparison above.


I know I sound like a fanboy when it comes to Dyn but to be completely honest, on the 300w I have them on I've never heard them lose their composure. I thought it was happening in the last because I was getting some audible distortion. Then I bridged the amp and the distortion went away so I guess it was the amp running out of steam. There was one time I thought I heard a clack like one bottomed out but I'm not sure. That was at full tilt and a 35hz hp. 



I'm very comfortable in saying it's not likely you'll be able to get them to lose their composure, at least not before they bottom first. I'm lowpassing them at 800hz so I don't know if the midrange might fall apart if running them up higher. If you're using them in a 3-way with the typical 63-300-ish bandpass and 300w or less, they will sound great with everything you can throw at them. 

They definitely have every bit of the claimed 26mm p-p xmech. At 35hz, it took everything I had to keep turning the volume up because it was at at least an inch of excursion. I had the same experience with my 650s no clue they had so much excursion because they never fell apart, until they bottomed. 

Sorry I went off again lol. I tend to do that. Mine are at 63hz-800hz right now. One thing about these is 63hz really slams compared to any 6.5" I've heard. Said another way, even at an 80hz hp it sounds more like what I'm used to hearing from a 6.5" highpassed at 63hz.

The Max plays to 63hz and above but it rolls off slightly around 63hz. The 9s match this almost perfectly giving a great snap and better detail.


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> Great summary! A lot of what you said is pretty much spot on from my perspective as well. Although I don't think it's distortion that makes it sound different from the IBs. Even at low volume the sound is warmer and fuller. If you get that 2nd one in it will sound awesome. I was contemplating buying the one for sale in classifieds but like you cash is concern right now. I just bought a brand new boat last week.


Thanks. I know what I wrote is so damn subjective but do you agree or disagree with the Max having more "emotion" in the music? Just wondering because I probably sound like I'm crazy like one of those guys that hang their speaker wire off the carpet and demagnetized my CDs. 

Maybe it's not distortion. It sure sounds good either way. Thanks to everyone for the encouragement.


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## DonH

glad that she warmed up for you BuickGN... what happened to the other MAX 15 you bought? I overlooked where you aid what happened i believe.


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## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> glad that she warmed up for you BuickGN... what happened to the other MAX 15 you bought? I overlooked where you aid what happened i believe.


this is with a max12 v3 , but when i first had mine i put it in a ported box , 2.5 @ 28hrz and i was actually very dissapointed and thought that the sub did not live up to the hype.. it did not get very loud and seemed to have a awkward sound when turned up , the lows did not hit how they should and everything else for that matter.. the higher notes where terrible and the sub was not very musical at all... that sucks ..

i knew about break in periods , but expected the sub to be much more off the bat , and how much really could break in make? well ,everyday after the 1st for about a month the sub kept getting better and better , louder , deeper , more accurate ,quicker ETC.. the volume on the HU i could turn up much louder than before ,so that alone should some sort of "proof" the the break in period is not a myth. at 1st my sub sounded kinda wack , much better than a kicker comp so to say  but now for just a single 12 the thing is loud as Fck , rattles my whole car apart , while being the best SQ that i personally have heard .. Cant wait to hear the 15 !!


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## kaigoss69

gregerst22 said:


> 100% agree. There's lots of different adjectives to describe the sound but in the end its all about the emotion. The connection between the listener and the music. Speakers and the way they produce sound, with their own signature, is a big part of making that connection.
> 
> Much like you said, after broken-in the Max15 has a warm more inviting sound. While the IB15 is extremely clean, accurate, detailed but after awhile I actually found them to be a bit boring and felt like there was something missing.
> 
> I'll put it this way and I don't think I'm stretching things too far. The IB15 is a bit like watching a documentary about the Battle of Mogadishu. While the Max15 is like watching Black Hawk Down. It's more enjoyable, entertaining and fun yet still an accurate version.


Fitting analogy! 

compared to the AE the Max has definitely more warmth, but you hit it right on the head when you say it is more inviting and likeable. The notes have a certain "edge" to them that I've never heard before. Awesome!


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> 100% agree. There's lots of different adjectives to describe the sound but in the end its all about the emotion. The connection between the listener and the music. Speakers and the way they produce sound, with their own signature, is a big part of making that connection.
> 
> Much like you said, after broken-in the Max15 has a warm more inviting sound. While the IB15 is extremely clean, accurate, detailed but after awhile I actually found them to be a bit boring and felt like there was something missing.
> 
> I'll put it this way and I don't think I'm stretching things too far. The IB15 is a bit like watching a documentary about the Battle of Mogadishu. While the Max15 is like watching Black Hawk Down. It's more enjoyable, entertaining and fun yet still an accurate version.





kaigoss69 said:


> Fitting analogy!
> 
> compared to the AE the Max has definitely more warmth, but you hit it right on the head when you say it is more inviting and likeable. The notes have a certain "edge" to them that I've never heard before. Awesome!


Awesome, I fully agree with you guys.


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## RNBRAD

BuickGN said:


> Awesome, I fully agree with you guys.


Wait till you get two going. They will continue to improve over the next few weeks, just more subtle than initial break in. Give them a full month, you will be exhilarated and wonder what took you so long to switch.


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## SilkySlim

Just to add my two cents they have so much more of that raw presence and energy down low that you get at the front row of a well mixed live amplified performance. It's just something special that moves you. I went with them because of that raw feeling and presence down low. Although I have heard more technically accurate subs on 40hz+ I don't think I have heard one with the force and accuracy 40hz-. The Ultimo 12's are great but to compare it would take 4-6 of them. They were my original plan for this build. I thought the maxxs would do well IB after I ran the 12maxx IB on crappy baffle but they continually surprise me. 

I am running 8" that I'm technically happy with now. I have a set of Morel's here I was going to use if I had a better place for them, or the Dyn's 9's would be a beautiful match. Great balance. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## casey

silky i wish you had a build thread or at least some pics on your fb so i could check it out since i missed it at the meet


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## DonH

Well, besides the terminal **** up, sorry about that guys, I'm glad the 15 is really shining now post break in


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## moparman79

Any new sub I install I always hit them with a test tone on the bench as much as I can to get things loosen up. especially the the IDMAX 10,12,15.


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## BuickGN

One word of advice to ID, keep Richard (or should I call him Dick) off the phones. That guy will cost you business. I'm still pissed right now at the attitude he gave me.

Maggie seems super nice. I was hoping to talk to Don. Maybe next time. Maggie is going to email me the price to replace the dust cap I dented. I'll never see it but it will bother me knowing it's there and even though I can't see myself selling them ever, I've learned my lesson and I realize you never know what might happen so I figure I might as well get it fixed now while it's in the shop because it will probably sell for more if the day ever comes to sell it. 

If I had not recently been so impressed by the sub that works, I would have asked for a refund after that phone call.


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## SilkySlim

casey said:


> silky i wish you had a build thread or at least some pics on your fb so i could check it out since i missed it at the meet


Ok ok I've been getting hassled for a build log here. I did one but I am making a few major changes. Hopefully I can find the time to make them and post one up here. I have three other builds I'm helping on right now too. It looks like they'll be at the meet too. I should be at the next meet. You'll have to take a listen. I am very happy with the direction now. 

I will be breaking in ID 8" to try up in the kicks. The next couple weeks should be interesting. I wish the IDQs8 were ready i'd like to give them a whirl for fun.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## BuickGN

On the more positive side, the more I think about it the more I think these subs are exactly what I've been wanting. That "edge" to the bass that someone mentioned is noticeable. I'm really looking forward to a klippel test. If ID doesn't do it, maybe I'll send the good one to Redrock for some testing depending on if I can afford it. 

Judging by my sub preference in the past, it seems like I prefer a good suspension, flat Bl type of sub over the low inductance/less suspension. That's of course assuming the IDMax has a good Bl curve and a good suspension which I think is a safe assumption it does.


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## BuickGN

SilkySlim said:


> Ok ok I've been getting hassled for a build log here. I did one but I am making a few major changes. Hopefully I can find the time to make them and post one up here. I have three other builds I'm helping on right now too. It looks like they'll be at the meet too. I should be at the next meet. You'll have to take a listen. I am very happy with the direction now.
> 
> I will be breaking in ID 8" to try up in the kicks. The next couple weeks should be interesting. I wish the IDQs8 were ready i'd like to give them a whirl for fun.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


That sounds like a nice combo. What range will the 8s be playing? Which ones are you currently running?


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## casey

SilkySlim said:


> Ok ok I've been getting hassled for a build log here. I did one but I am making a few major changes. Hopefully I can find the time to make them and post one up here. I have three other builds I'm helping on right now too. It looks like they'll be at the meet too. I should be at the next meet. You'll have to take a listen. I am very happy with the direction now.
> 
> I will be breaking in ID 8" to try up in the kicks. The next couple weeks should be interesting. I wish the IDQs8 were ready i'd like to give them a whirl for fun.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


Sounds good sir, you disappeared pretty quick at Jasons!


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## SilkySlim

Buick I'm running old school OZ Superman 4" and tweet pods and 8" in kicks up front. I am trying the ID eights because the should like the kick enclosures much better and be happy, happy, happy. The ID's are more subs than midbass but I have them crossed over at 200-300 down so we'll see how they do. Even though the enclosure it's way too small the OZ Superman 8" still sound great. All said and done I think the 4's in pods can play to 150hz safe. So that may help. 

Sorry about that Casey. Yea the kids and pregnant wife were all done hanging out and she had the car and kids most of the day. Don't worry you didn't miss much though. My top end config changed drastically hours before due to a bad crossover. and I tuned it by ear on the way up there. The ID's sounded good but only had about around 20 hrs on one of them and 10 on the other. To me it sound like Fiddo's bottom end compared to it's potential as well as what it even sounds like now in it's temp state. The top end dynamics were crap. Crossovers were way off etc. I had not run the OZ active ever so the crossovers were way off and a guessing game at first. Can't wait to get some time and finally finish it. I'm very happy with the temp fix but I have enough to start going back to my design before. What do you think of Rus's? I hoped that the IDQs8's were going to be done by the meet but no go.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## BuickGN

Just a quick update, nothing really. Maggie from ID was great, after a negative experience with one of the builders. I have the RO number but haven't had time to ship the sub back. I got a new mountain bike at the same time as the subs and most of my time has been dedicated to that. I'm off early Friday so I'm going to get it shipped out then. They're going to replace the dust cap my dumbass dented for free so I'm very happy with ID's customer service and I'll continue to recommend them to others. I brought one to work and a couple of our engineers are really interested in them but they want to hear mine first.

For some reason I can remember the way they sound perfectly, this sub definitely left a lasting impression and I'm looking forward to getting the pair installed. I was hoping to sell my IB15s to help fund the installation but that may not happen. It looks like I can use one side of my existing baffle and I have two more sheets of 3/4" MDF ready to go. I hope 2-1/4" is enough for these monsters. Where the IB15 could be run free air pretty hard and not jump around, the Max15 wants to move. I don't know if it's the higher MMS or what. I always thought that while you might be pushing the cone out, the magnet is being pushed the opposite way for a near complete cancellation except for the air load. Maybe I'm wrong. What I do know is I never had to worry about the IB15s making vibrations through the baffle from the frame itself. I might look into isolating the baffle from the car slightly, even if it's just those rubber lined washers and some rubber duct seal or the 20 or so innertubes I've popped that I kept for some unknown reason around the perimeter.

So I hope to get the one permanently installed this weekend if the weather is too hot for biking.

My midbasses have thoroughly impressed me through all of this. I lowered the highpass to 45hz because I'm riding around with no subs. On music that's not bass heavy I've literally forgotten the subs are missing. It's not until something comes on that has a lot of low end that I remember I have no subs.


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## SilkySlim




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## DonH

BuickGN said:


> Just a quick update, nothing really. Maggie from ID was great, after a negative experience with one of the builders. I have the RO number but haven't had time to ship the sub back. I got a new mountain bike at the same time as the subs and most of my time has been dedicated to that. I'm off early Friday so I'm going to get it shipped out then. They're going to replace the dust cap my dumbass dented for free so I'm very happy with ID's customer service and I'll continue to recommend them to others. I brought one to work and a couple of our engineers are really interested in them but they want to hear mine first.
> 
> For some reason I can remember the way they sound perfectly, this sub definitely left a lasting impression and I'm looking forward to getting the pair installed. I was hoping to sell my IB15s to help fund the installation but that may not happen. It looks like I can use one side of my existing baffle and I have two more sheets of 3/4" MDF ready to go. I hope 2-1/4" is enough for these monsters. Where the IB15 could be run free air pretty hard and not jump around, the Max15 wants to move. I don't know if it's the higher MMS or what. I always thought that while you might be pushing the cone out, the magnet is being pushed the opposite way for a near complete cancellation except for the air load. Maybe I'm wrong. What I do know is I never had to worry about the IB15s making vibrations through the baffle from the frame itself. I might look into isolating the baffle from the car slightly, even if it's just those rubber lined washers and some rubber duct seal or the 20 or so innertubes I've popped that I kept for some unknown reason around the perimeter.
> 
> So I hope to get the one permanently installed this weekend if the weather is too hot for biking.
> 
> My midbasses have thoroughly impressed me through all of this. I lowered the highpass to 45hz because I'm riding around with no subs. On music that's not bass heavy I've literally forgotten the subs are missing. It's not until something comes on that has a lot of low end that I remember I have no subs.


So sorry you had a bad experience! I brought this up and I'm glad we have worked it out for you! Next time if you want to talk with me just simply say you want to talk to Don. Also I will get right on the recone,kit once we get yours in!


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## SilkySlim

SilkySlim said:


>


This is what I did to tackle the flexing and vibrations. It gives everyone a little tactile sound as well. I have quadrupled the mounting points to the frame since this photo. I also added one more layer of birch. I could actually see the board flexing with this earlier setup of two layers of 3/4. I covered it with a a matching ultra suede/Alcantara. I am happy with it. Could have gone 4 layers or added a couple of layers of aluminium to stiffen it up and add rigidity. I think and have found that is one of the most important overlooked thing you can do to an enclosure or IB is making the baffle as rigid as possible. I have noticed increased output and tightness from this. It's lost energy and unplanned energy that can create cancellations.


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## vulgamore89

Anybody ever tried IB in a newer body style mustang?


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## DonH

Guess what came in today! New MQ150.2 amplifiers! Full range class D. This little amp will do 500 rms all day long at 4 ohm bridged! Let me say this, the amp manual is the same size as the amp!


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## rton20s

DonH said:


> Guess what came in today! New MQ150.2 amplifiers! Full range class D. This little amp will do 500 rms all day long at 4 ohm bridged! Let me say this, the amp manual is the same size as the amp!


Post some photos! 

Any chance of a matching 4 channel and mono?

What the?! When I started to type, no photo. And now... there it is! 

How about a shot outside of the box?


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## Coppertone

^^^. Why do you guys have to torture me with gear that I really do not need but oh so want lol ?


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## SilkySlim

DonH said:


> Guess what came in today! New MQ150.2 amplifiers! Full range class D. This little amp will do 500 rms all day long at 4 ohm bridged! Let me say this, the amp manual is the same size as the amp!


Hot D. I will order some today!


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## DonH

Hehe I will post some photos later: ) we have torture tested the **** out of them! But yes, a 4ch and a monoblock are in the works!

Let me say this, the fact that Rich Coe approves of them, aka the world's hardest amplifier designer and critic, then so do I

Edit: they also come with a in line 60a fuse and holder. I'll post some pics up in a jiffy


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## SilkySlim

Wow just benched one of the 150.2. Very impressed!! I was impressed how well it handle a burn in of some subs for a project. Very little heat. Then I hooked it up full range I really liked it I have three going in a truck in the next week. We'll see how much guts the little guys have won't be the easiest loads. I think you have another home run here guys. I have liked the zeds but this little guy voiced real we'll not harsh or overbright. I am enjoying the bench review so far! I know it is not a v4 sub but since you mentioned it. Thanks guys keep up the hard work I really can't wait for those idqs to come out!


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## DonH

SilkySlim said:


> Wow just benched one of the 150.2. Very impressed!! I was impressed how well it handle a burn in of some subs for a project. Very little heat. Then I hooked it up full range I really liked it I have three going in a truck in the next week. We'll see how much guts the little guys have won't be the easiest loads. I think you have another home run here guys. I have liked the zeds but this little guy voiced real we'll not harsh or overbright. I am enjoying the bench review so far! I know it is not a v4 sub but since you mentioned it. Thanks guys keep up the hard work I really can't wait for those idqs to come out!


yeah man! they are beastly little guys! 

The slim q's have undergone a design change from what we showed at CES. We loved the sound they had but they lacked in presence so we went back to the drawing board. The least thing we want to do is just throw out a slim driver into the market that does not uphold Image Dynamics name! The Q 8 on the other hand, well production on that will be starting very very soon


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## rton20s

I'm still waiting for some actual photos of the amp. Some gut shots would be nice as well.  

And I'll ask one more time... Any plans for a matching 4 channel and mono amp in the MQ lineup?


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## BuickGN

Hey Don, I fixed my one bad sub myself. I got to looking at the terminals and realized it's not the centering of the push terminals, the terminals are spread too far out. Both were extremely close to the frame but one on (on each coil) was touching the frame. I realized I wouldn't be able to rotate the metal ring without making the other ground out so I gave them a little squeeze and so far so good. 

As bad as I would like to send it in since Maggie offered a free dented dustcap replacement, it's working now. It's still very close, I'm hoping when I put some real power to it, it does not try to arc being that close. 

They're so close to being mouted. The baffle is done and ready to be installed. It's going to be tricky because I'm going to have to assemble the baffle and subs together in the car and while the baffle is halfway up as it's the only way to get it to fit right up against the seat (with excursion clearance of course). I had about 2 more hours on it and my AC went out so I've been staying with family for the past 2 days damnit. I'm probably 1hr away from it being functional once I start back on it.


----------



## expiredtags

Just got my IDMAX12 v4 installed 2 weeks ago and that thing is a beast!

It's my first 12 and I'm extremely impressed. 

I came from a jl10w7 before and couldn't justify the expense for the 12 and heard such good things about ID so I took a chance. Well I couldn't be happier right now. 

Thanks ID for a great product!

-Kyle


----------



## DonH

rton20s said:


> I'm still waiting for some actual photos of the amp. Some gut shots would be nice as well.
> 
> And I'll ask one more time... Any plans for a matching 4 channel and mono amp in the MQ lineup?


I will take a gut shot when Im at work tomorrow. and yes, a matching 4ch and monoblock are in the works as well as a whole new line of class D amplifiers including a 5ch thats 100x4 @4ohm and 800x1 @ 1ohm! and if i get my way, a bandpass feature on two channels and a HPF on another 2 channels that is variable from 50hz to 5000hz  and of course on the sub side a LPF and ssf


----------



## DonH

BuickGN said:


> Hey Don, I fixed my one bad sub myself. I got to looking at the terminals and realized it's not the centering of the push terminals, the terminals are spread too far out. Both were extremely close to the frame but one on (on each coil) was touching the frame. I realized I wouldn't be able to rotate the metal ring without making the other ground out so I gave them a little squeeze and so far so good.
> 
> As bad as I would like to send it in since Maggie offered a free dented dustcap replacement, it's working now. It's still very close, I'm hoping when I put some real power to it, it does not try to arc being that close.
> 
> They're so close to being mouted. The baffle is done and ready to be installed. It's going to be tricky because I'm going to have to assemble the baffle and subs together in the car and while the baffle is halfway up as it's the only way to get it to fit right up against the seat (with excursion clearance of course). I had about 2 more hours on it and my AC went out so I've been staying with family for the past 2 days damnit. I'm probably 1hr away from it being functional once I start back on it.


Glad you got it working yourself but still sorry you had to! let me know how the thing slams once up and running

p.s. change that sig


----------



## DonH

expiredtags said:


> Just got my IDMAX12 v4 installed 2 weeks ago and that thing is a beast!
> 
> It's my first 12 and I'm extremely impressed.
> 
> I came from a jl10w7 before and couldn't justify the expense for the 12 and heard such good things about ID so I took a chance. Well I couldn't be happier right now.
> 
> Thanks ID for a great product!
> 
> -Kyle


im very pleased you like the driver


----------



## [email protected]

BuickGN said:


> As bad as I would like to send it in since Maggie offered a free dented dustcap replacement, it's working now. It's still very close, I'm hoping when I put some real power to it, it does not try to arc being that close.


Am I reading that right? They offered to replace your defective product with a cosmetic defected product?


----------



## rton20s

[email protected] said:


> Am I reading that right? They offered to replace your defective product with a cosmetic defected product?


No. They offered to replace one of the subwoofers that BuickGN had dented the dustcap on. Not exactly a manufacturer's defect.


----------



## [email protected]

rton20s said:


> No. They offered to replace one of the subwoofers that BuickGN had dented the dustcap on. Not exactly a manufacturer's defect.


Thanks for the clarification, I did not read the whole thread


----------



## J.novak

Hey Don or BuickGN, for those of us with sticky terminals, could you give us a quick run through on the repair process?


----------



## kaigoss69

Interested in specs and dimensions of the 4 channel and mono amp versions.


----------



## cfetter

Info on the slimline subs?


----------



## SilkySlim

J.novak said:


> Hey Don or BuickGN, for those of us with sticky terminals, could you give us a quick run through on the repair process?


I have had one I loosened all of the screws for the cone/vc replacement and was able to adjust it just enough. I put a thin piece of cardboard that I ripped off of a soda 12 pack on each side as a spacer. When I tightened them back down. Watch the video on cone/VC replacement. You do everything to prepare for replacement but just adjust it instead of pulling all apart takes about 5-10 mins max. Hope this helps.

I have never had this problem with the 10's or 12's.


----------



## J.novak

SilkySlim said:


> I have had one I loosened all of the screws for the cone/vc replacement and was able to adjust it just enough. I put a thin piece of cardboard that I ripped off of a soda 12 pack on each side as a spacer. When I tightened them back down. Watch the video on cone/VC replacement. You do everything to prepare for replacement but just adjust it instead of pulling all apart takes about 5-10 mins max. Hope this helps.
> 
> I have never had this problem with the 10's or 12's.



Thank you! I'll give it a try. Are the sticky terminals simply a nuisance or could it cause a grounding issue to the frame?


----------



## DonH

J.novak said:


> Thank you! I'll give it a try. Are the sticky terminals simply a nuisance or could it cause a grounding issue to the frame?


Do NOT loosen the entire assembly. it IS NOT NECESSARY. it is caused,by improper tooling of the spider clamp which has already been fixed. Please pm me your email so I can forward the video I made of,how to fix it in about 2 minutes! But I can't stress enough, very sorry

-don


----------



## DonH

kaigoss69 said:


> Interested in specs and dimensions of the 4 channel and mono amp versions.


To be determined! we are working with the buildhouse to smooth out some rough edges on the amplifiers! they will be very similar in size to our now in stock MQ150.2! which is tiny! PS the mq150.2 is a sleeper! It was benched producing 620x1 watts RMS @4ohm! 



cfetter said:


> Info on the slimline subs?


Made in USA, mounting under 3.5" and a removable core assembly like our q and max line! sizes 8" 10" 12" MAYBE a 15" down to road

-Don


----------



## J.novak

DonH said:


> Do NOT loosen the entire assembly. it IS NOT NECESSARY. it is caused,by improper tooling of the spider clamp which has already been fixed. Please pm me your email so I can forward the video I made of,how to fix it in about 2 minutes! But I can't stress enough, very sorry
> 
> -don




Pm sent. Thank you


----------



## DonH

We will be uploading the video for easier access to our customers along with new recone videos with audio of me explaining each step in detail


----------



## Coppertone




----------



## Jboogie

Man, I really like that MQ150.2. Just wish my sub wasnt a dual 4 ohm..

Maybe ill get one when those slim IDQ's come out.


----------



## easye

I picked up a 10" max about three months ago. Been enjoying the hell out of it ever since. Didn't have room for a 12 or 15 but the ten is all I need anyway. I never thought I would spend this kind of money on a single sub but I'm glad I did, worth every penny. Keep up the good work


----------



## dileepsv

how good are the subs?


----------



## DonH

Hey guys, here are gut shots I got from our Amplifier Engineer. Please note this picture was from the prototype as I dont want to tear into an A-Stock Item hah. We have since changed a few things internally for better performance and sound quality. 
keep in mind this thing is tiny!


----------



## fish

expiredtags said:


> Just got my IDMAX12 v4 installed 2 weeks ago and that thing is a beast!
> 
> It's my first 12 and I'm extremely impressed.
> 
> I came from a jl10w7 before and couldn't justify the expense for the 12 and heard such good things about ID so I took a chance. Well I couldn't be happier right now.
> 
> Thanks ID for a great product!
> 
> -Kyle


Can you give a description between the two subs? Also, what type of enclosures were/are used?


----------



## subwoofery

DonH said:


> Hey guys, here are gut shots I got from our Amplifier Engineer. Please note this picture was from the prototype as I dont want to tear into an A-Stock Item hah. We have since changed a few things internally for better performance and sound quality.
> keep in mind this thing is tiny!


Sorry for asking what some may be thinking down low but has that amp been designed from the ground up? 

Kelvin


----------



## DonH

subwoofery said:


> Sorry for asking what some may be thinking down low but has that amp been designed from the ground up?
> 
> Kelvin


No it has not, but I will tell you one thing, we have gone through about 15 prototypes and changes to get it right on the money for our customers!


----------



## BuickGN

Mine are finally installed. I still have to seal everything up though. On 750w with a 20hz tune it looks like it's going to damage the paint from the roof flexing so much. I'm not into flexing body panels but there's a little more output in that region than the IB15s. 

After a quick tune they blend well, they're quick, snappy, pretty much all you could want. There are some differences between them and the IB15s but I need a lot more time plus break-in before writing an actual review. I will say that they will get louder in the 20-30hz range before tripping the amp but the IB15s got louder in the other frequencies before tripping the amp not that it matters. 

One thing I'm really wanting is to see Klippel tests. There was one test that worries me, done by Sonic on an ID Max12. It's called subwoofer Olympics and in one test they pop the sub with a battery, measure excursion, and reverse polarity and measure again to get cone travel. 

The Max was around 50mm peak to peak I think. It's not the absolute number that bothers me but it moved considerably more in one direction than the other. It's shorter distance was shorter than the IDQ. I don't know if it's suspension or Bl offset or what. It's an oddball "test" I admit but it worries me there's such a difference in the inward vs outward movement. A klippel test on the 15 would be awesome. 

I admit that even a 15mm xmax rating would be fine with this much cone area and that being IB I'm glad xmech is likely very good.


----------



## subwoofery

DonH said:


> No it has not, but I will tell you one thing, we have gone through about 15 prototypes and changes to get it right on the money for our customers!


All the best with that design then  

Keep up the good work :thumbsup: 

Kelvin


----------



## DonH

subwoofery said:


> All the best with that design then
> 
> Keep up the good work :thumbsup:
> 
> Kelvin


It was a solid question I won't bull **** or beat around the Bush


----------



## SilkySlim

BuickGN said:


> Mine are finally installed. I still have to seal everything up though. On 750w with a 20hz tune it looks like it's going to damage the paint from the roof flexing so much. I'm not into flexing body panels but there's a little more output in that region than the IB15s.
> 
> After a quick tune they blend well, they're quick, snappy, pretty much all you could want. There are some differences between them and the IB15s but I need a lot more time plus break-in before writing an actual review. I will say that they will get louder in the 20-30hz range before tripping the amp but the IB15s got louder in the other frequencies before tripping the amp not that it matters.
> 
> One thing I'm really wanting is to see Klippel tests. There was one test that worries me, done by Sonic on an ID Max12. It's called subwoofer Olympics and in one test they pop the sub with a battery, measure excursion, and reverse polarity and measure again to get cone travel.
> 
> The Max was around 50mm peak to peak I think. It's not the absolute number that bothers me but it moved considerably more in one direction than the other. It's shorter distance was shorter than the IDQ. I don't know if it's suspension or Bl offset or what. It's an oddball "test" I admit but it worries me there's such a difference in the inward vs outward movement. A klippel test on the 15 would be awesome.
> 
> I admit that even a 15mm xmax rating would be fine with this much cone area and that being IB I'm glad xmech is likely very good.


If you think about it that is one area that most modern sub designs have really improved is there linearity. One of things that isobaric enclosures help with on the old school subs. From the way they sound at or until the break in which is my guess. For the Olympics I bet they just pulled some bnib of the shelf without break in. I have seen very few subs where the difference is this noticeable. I would imagine that was the SQ problem you discover in the beginning.


----------



## rton20s

Don, thanks for posting the gut shots.


----------



## DonH

rton20s said:


> Don, thanks for posting the gut shots.


no problem. this is the prototype once again the board has been cleaned up


----------



## BuickGN

So, part of the reason I've been holding off on a review is I was not very impressed. On some songs there was no clear bass line, just a blur. They didn't sound clear and clean. They were bloated and would only blend if I kept the level really low. I've been bummed that I took two steps back. 

Then I took a look at the amp, remembering I did a local auto-x event while my subs were out. The lowpass filter was on and set around 35hz. I went straight to the amp because the one for the midrange was in between settings causing the right mid to cut out after the event. 

After fixing the settings it's a 1,000% improvement in sound quality. I don't want to give a full review yet but if I had to choose these and the IB15s based solely on sound quality it would be these which is a surprise to me. I was wondering why I couldn't get that great sound I remembered from the single one temporary installed. 

For what it's worth mine are crossed at 70hz and they play it very nice. I tried 250hz and they play up there just fine too. These aren't limited to just the lowest notes like I was worried about. They will play midbass. 

I'm going to give them a few weeks to break in and so I can get some more time on more types of music before writing a review. So far I'm very happy.


----------



## DonH

Sweet! Told YAH.


----------



## 1fishman

BuickGN said:


> So, part of the reason I've been holding off on a review is I was not very impressed. On some songs there was no clear bass line, just a blur. They didn't sound clear and clean. They were bloated and would only blend if I kept the level really low. I've been bummed that I took two steps back.
> 
> Then I took a look at the amp, remembering I did a local auto-x event while my subs were out. The lowpass filter was on and set around 35hz. I went straight to the amp because the one for the midrange was in between settings causing the right mid to cut out after the event.
> 
> After fixing the settings it's a 1,000% improvement in sound quality. I don't want to give a full review yet but if I had to choose these and the IB15s based solely on sound quality it would be these which is a surprise to me. I was wondering why I couldn't get that great sound I remembered from the single one temporary installed.
> 
> For what it's worth mine are crossed at 70hz and they play it very nice. I tried 250hz and they play up there just fine too. These aren't limited to just the lowest notes like I was worried about. They will play midbass.
> 
> I'm going to give them a few weeks to break in and so I can get some more time on more types of music before writing a review. So far I'm very happy.


Which subs (size and .model) is this review on? I tried going back a figure out how manny and which model you have but...


----------



## BuickGN

They're 2x Max15s.


----------



## SilkySlim

That sounds more like it!


----------



## DonH

Buick, can you post some pictures? May bee a video?


----------



## BuickGN

I've got some installation pictures and a video playing a 20hz tone trying to break them in a little quicker. The whole area is a wreck, no seats, no carpet, not sealed, not finished.


----------



## DonH

Fun fact, just spent all day finalizing the Q8 parts to,get them ready to roll out... let me just say this little guy can MOVE! Same excursion limits as the q10 and 12 with the added 6mm xlim to make sure you don't bottom it out! Did I mention field reconable!


----------



## SilkySlim

Ditto I felt responsible but was really confused because mine never sounded as bad as he described. I felt like how could he have gotten such a dud. They have improved considerably with break in but I'm glad he got it worked out. I thought with what I had if the his old 15's were that amazing I must try a pair. I have a couple of guys thinking of pairing down. I need to try mine with more power to see just what one can do!!!!! A really clean 1.2-1.5k should do it! Might be to much but it seems like they are just getting going.


----------



## DonH

hmmmm... 

















if you can guess what the driver on the left is ill give you high five


----------



## vulgamore89

Q12? Haha


----------



## DonH

vulgamore89 said:


> Q12? Haha


Hehe nope


----------



## loudnproud808

DonH said:


> Hehe nope


left idq10v4 , so the right must be idq8!!!


----------



## DonH

loudnproud808 said:


> left idq10v4 , so the right must be idq8!!!


the one on the left is a Q10 with a custom Q12 motor... I added a shorting ring and some cooling slots on the back plate  its sweeeeet tits. it was one of those clock out but dont want to go home builds hah


----------



## BuickGN

Don, can you give the inductance of the Max 15? I know it's pretty low because it plays midbass really well. Does it used shorting rings or any sort of inductance control?

I was glad to see it uses a 2.6" coil instead of the typical 3" or larger for this kind of sub.


----------



## DonH

Yeah I'll check my notes on Monday!no shorting rings... next gen will have them!


----------



## tyroneshoes

DonH said:


> Fun fact, just spent all day finalizing the Q8 parts to,get them ready to roll out... let me just say this little guy can MOVE! Same excursion limits as the q10 and 12 with the added 6mm xlim to make sure you don't bottom it out! Did I mention field reconable!


Thats what Im looking foward to. 

Do you know the cutout size and depth of the idq 8s yet? Sealed enclosure size?


----------



## fish

Hey Don,

I know you're getting bombarded with questions, but here's a couple more. 

1) What will the IDQ8 be selling for?

2) Are there any plans to introduce an IDQ15?

The Max's are out of my budget.


----------



## BuickGN

DonH said:


> Yeah I'll check my notes on Monday!no shorting rings... next gen will have them!


Damnit. Looks like I jumped the gun.


----------



## DonH

Well, hoping they will have them haha!


----------



## Jboogie

i didnt read this whole thread, so sorry if its been answered. 

Any ETA on those slim IDQ's


----------



## BuickGN

Jboogie said:


> i didnt read this whole thread, so sorry if its been answered.
> 
> Any ETA on those slim IDQ's


The first batch is sold out. The next will be available next year... 







Kidding. I haven't paid attention to much besides the Max 15. I wouldn't mind knowing the answer as I think one would do well in the fiancées car. She hates car audio but I drive it occasionally so I'm being selfish.


----------



## low4ever

Any time line on the IDQ8? Blew my ID8 (user error) need a replacement but don't won't to wait if its not coming any time soon. My buddy let me use his dd2510 in a box built to spec. It is definately louder but doesn't sound no where as good as the ID8 did. Really missing it


----------



## SilkySlim

I have been told around sema if that helps. Maybe we'll see an idqs8 then too. Fingers crossed. 
Lol I wish there had been a first batch a couple buddies have been waiting for them. The preproduction betas are the only ones. I guess Don is the lucky one. Lol


----------



## DonH

I know guys, trust me I'm getting ancy also! The q8 is about a month away from production, the shallow line is about 3 months from what I was told. We completely changed the driver... completely


----------



## rton20s

DonH said:


> We completely changed the driver... completely


New, improved shallow mount drivers from Image Dynamics! Available soon with *only* 7" mounting depth!


----------



## DonH

rton20s said:


> New, improved shallow mount drivers from Image Dynamics! Available soon with *only* 7" mounting depth!


Ha... under 3.5"


----------



## DonH

No not yet, sorry very busy finishing up a run of 200 max 's!


----------



## SilkySlim

That sounds exciting.


----------



## BuickGN

Any word on inductance or klippel testing?


----------



## DonH

None. Sadly I won't be granted my wish to a test


----------



## BuickGN

That sucks. I guess next Friday I'll be shipping one of these monsters out for Klippel testing on my own dime. It could be good advertising. It will be fun having double the power on the remaining one to see how it behaves with more power. 

Stay tuned in this thread and in the Klippel section in the next few weeks, we should all have some most desirable data soon. The elusive inductance question will also be answered. 

Anyone want to start taking bets? I say xmax by Bl will be around the 28mm one way rating. I think the suspension will be well above Bl with it's 11.5" (?) nomex spider and a smallish 2.6" VC which in insider a good thing. I think inductsnce distortion is going to limit xmax to the 15mm range. I'm betting 3mh at rest and significant variance over stroke. I believe John at AE mentioned around 4mh inward and 1.2mh outward for one of the 12" v3 versions. 

So those are my guesses: 28mm xmax by Bl, significantly higher than 28mm by suspension, and 10-15mm by inductance distortion. Anyone else want to take a shot to see who's closer? I really think the suspension is going to be badass. 

I'm also curious about the high Fs for a 15 that's higher than the 12" and 10" versions and less motor strength than the 10 and 12". Efficiency will be known as well. I've had plenty questions about the TS parameters for a while now and more importantly the large signal performance, even voice coil temp rise and power compression. This will hopefully show that WinISD is wrong and that it will not require >1,200w IB to hit xmax and if that's the case, give a reason why, maybe a different parameter set. 

I'm going to continue playing bass (excursion) heavy music to ensure it's broken in well when it's tested. Anyone else want to see a Klippel on these subs? I've only been able to find an IDQ10 v2 using google.


----------



## loudnproud808

BuickGN said:


> That sucks. I guess next Friday I'll be shipping one of these monsters out for Klippel testing on my own dime. It could be good advertising. It will be fun having double the power on the remaining one to see how it behaves with more power.
> 
> Stay tuned in this thread and in the Klippel section in the next few weeks, we should all have some most desirable data soon. The elusive inductance question will also be answered.
> 
> Anyone want to start taking bets? I say xmax by Bl will be around the 28mm one way rating. I think the suspension will be well above Bl with it's 11.5" (?) nomex spider and a smallish 2.6" VC which in insider a good thing. I think inductsnce distortion is going to limit xmax to the 15mm range. I'm betting 3mh at rest and significant variance over stroke. I believe John at AE mentioned around 4mh inward and 1.2mh outward for one of the 12" v3 versions.
> 
> So those are my guesses: 28mm xmax by Bl, significantly higher than 28mm by suspension, and 10-15mm by inductance distortion. Anyone else want to take a shot to see who's closer? I really think the suspension is going to be badass.
> 
> I'm also curious about the high Fs for a 15 that's higher than the 12" and 10" versions and less motor strength than the 10 and 12". Efficiency will be known as well. I've had plenty questions about the TS parameters for a while now and more importantly the large signal performance, even voice coil temp rise and power compression. This will hopefully show that WinISD is wrong and that it will not require >1,200w IB to hit xmax and if that's the case, give a reason why, maybe a different parameter set.
> 
> I'm going to continue playing bass (excursion) heavy music to ensure it's broken in well when it's tested. Anyone else want to see a Klippel on these subs? I've only been able to find an IDQ10 v2 using google.


damn man u well beyond me in audio smarts man , atleast i can follow with what ur talking about for the most part , i do want to see all this testing done , this is awesome! Good work. Did u say that the motor is weaker than the 10 and 12 ?


----------



## BuickGN

Basically there are a lot of things that don't make sense that a Klippel can answer.


----------



## DonH

buickGN can you clear PM's?

BUT negative or positive klippel results I cant wait to see what turns up! Cant stress enough to you man that you are going above and beyond which I personally thank you for that. From enthusiast to enthusiast! cant wait for results!


----------



## SilkySlim

DonH said:


> buickGN can you clear PM's?
> 
> BUT negative or positive klippel results I cant wait to see what turns up! Cant stress enough to you man that you are going above and beyond which I personally thank you for that. From enthusiast to enthusiast! cant wait for results!



Word!!


----------



## T3mpest

gregerst22 said:


> Maybe ID would be willing to split the cost with you? As you said, it could be good advertising for them, if the numbers are favorable.
> I won't venture to guess about the klippel results other than xmax will close to rated but not without distortion when pushed hard.
> Maybe BL is lower than the smaller subs to help get more low end output? I saw a chart of two identical speakers one had a bl of 10.0 and the other was 20. There was significant roll off at the lowend with the stronger motor.
> It would be interesting if the engineer who designed this sub could talk about what led to this particular design.


My guess is the 15 was built with IB installs in mind. Traditionally people go with the bigger subs when they go IB and smaller subs are usually used in a box.


----------



## BuickGN

I would love to hear from engineering. The Inductance, the reason for lower motor strength, the reason for considerably lower suspension compliance which I'm guessing is why the Fs is pretty high for a 15. Luckily using these subs IB work well, they almost seem better suited for IB than sealed. Fsc remains acceptable and with the cone area due to the ability to run two of them makes inductance change over stroke not as big of an issue at reasonable listening levels. 

I know I don't get that Qts is still pretty low meaning they're well damped but motor strength is down but I don't know much on how these parameters interrelate. That one set of subs that had better low end with lower motor force might have been due to a lack of damping or Fs? 

The subs sound great and that's ultimately what matters but I don't understand the reason for some of the changes and I don't understand why they don't know inductance of their subs. Luckily WinISD calculated MMS when I modeled them but otherwise I would have no idea what it was. They have exceeded my expectations so far but for a $700 retail sub it would be nice to have more info.

I keep thinking the WinISD model is not correct and that's part of the reason I want more information. What's done is done and they're staying with me for a long time and they're absolutely great. I'll feel better once I get some real power going to them.


----------



## BuickGN

T3mpest said:


> My guess is the 15 was built with IB installs in mind. Traditionally people go with the bigger subs when they go IB and smaller subs are usually used in a box.


I think that these subs are very well suited for IB but I don't think it was on purpose. Somewhere deep in this thread someone asked if they would work IB and while the answer was obviously yes, the answer wasn't known immediately. I think these are one of the best IB subs ever made honestly. Tons of cone area, tons of excursion, low motor and suspension noise at least on 20hz tones and 750w total which is about 1" p-p excursion. Not much I know, but there was no noise from them. Most of all, the huge displacement is second to their sound quality. 

I'm like a fanboy yet not satisfied with the lack of real data.


----------



## BuickGN

I just discovered something pretty nice about these subs. The last time I tried them full range I had a crossover applied on the amp by accident. I tried them full range just for the hell of it last night and they surprised the hell out if me. There was zero problem playing the female vocal range. They literally sounded as if I had the stock 6.5s installed and running back there. They might not have played the higher ranges quite as clear as the IB15s but these subs would have zero problems being used in a system that required them to play past 200hz as a few people do on here. 

I played around a little and did a tune with them low passed at 120hz and they sound extremely good. I still can't get over just how well they play higher frequencies, FAR better than any sub I've ever run short of the IB15s. They far exceed what the W6/7s and every other sub I've run in every car I've owned. They even play higher while sounding better than some of the mid bass speakers I've run, literally. In fact I don't see why they wouldn't make a great mid bass if you were crazy enough to do so. These subs just scored big time in the versatile category. 

I would still live to know the inductance before the Klippel tests to correlate a number to what I'm hearing. I've heard as high as 4mh but I can imagine them being higher than 1mh based on my limited experience.


----------



## gijoe

Looking forward to seeing more data. My SBP 15's are incredible, and will play well into the vocal range (too bad that mostly goes to waste), if someone had the ability to use one of these up front it would be really cool to see what HPF they could use.


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## BuickGN

gijoe said:


> Looking forward to seeing more data. My SBP 15's are incredible, and will play well into the vocal range (too bad that mostly goes to waste), if someone had the ability to use one of these up front it would be really cool to see what HPF they could use.


I played tones on my IB15s with no crossover and a. 4khz tone was easily audible and with no noticeable roll off from the other frequencies. I cold hear a singers breath with no lowpass. 

The Max15 is right there with them though, the two totally in a league of their own compared to everything else I've run or heard. I want to play tones and see where the Max15 begins rolling off by ear but I now have the 750/1 amp that's not full range. I can't remember if it goes up to 8khz or if it's lower than that. If it plays up to 8khz I doubt I'll have a problem but I do remember there being an easily audible difference with the AEs when I swapped amps to the 750/1. Regardless, it's surprising as hell what a sub that has so much output on the low end and can be so brutal and powerful can sound like when it's in SQ mode. There really is no downside to these subs performance wise. They're heavy and large but I can't find fault with their performance. I thought I would be giving up the ability to lowpass them higher than normal but there's no compromise to be made, at least not below 2 kHz.


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## BuickGN

Just bringing this back to the top. I'm still loving these subs more by the day and I'm 100% sure finally that I made the right decision to swap them. We use all kinds of adjectives to describe subs so I'll just say these are better in every way than anything I've run before. 

I just sold the sub amp and pulled it out this morning and won't have the new one for almost 3 weeks so it's the perfect time to send one out for klippel testing. 

I've had some questions. ID seems to use a much lower Qms than any other sub I can find by far. Looking at old Dumax results it looks like this has been the case since the beginning. I would love to know the reasoning behind it for my own knowledge. Are they designed to play through Fs and sound good doing so, is this to add more damping below Fs since it's more suspension than motor controlled below Fs (thanks Andy W for that info). 

We all know the subs perform exceptionally well so I'm only trying to put some objective data with my subjective feelings. It's just like when I sent out my Dyn midbass and midranges I already knew they were awesome and ultimately how they sound is the most important parameter lol. So klippel results aren't going to change my mind about these subs, I haven't heard a W6 or W7 for a while so I don't want to say I like the Max15 better for sure but from what I remember I think this is the best sounding sub I've owned or heard. 

I am a little worried about xmax. Based on Dumax results of one of the v2 12" I've seen the suspension hits a brick wall around 25mm and there's huge offset. Maybe it's the surround pulling tight? Maybe it's been improved over the years. 

The 15 has an 11" spider I believe, I would like to know what size spider the 12" uses and if the 15's surround has more throw. It almost seems like the surround is used to limit excursion before anything bad happens. 

Anyway, nearly every time I get in the car I'm surprised and impressed with the subs and they blend so damn easy with the midbass. I'm currently using a 50hz/6db LP and it's working out great. They say high Qms usually means a boring sub but these are anything but boring.


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## SilkySlim

Agreed this is why I was so so confused with your first impressions. I felt like something had to be way off to cause that. I feel the same way I can't think of a sub that I have enjoyed more. It has to be the best all around sub I've worked with and I enjoy them more each day. 
What you said about the suspension control would fall right in line with the break in and how much they seem to improve too!


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## Sadus

ID subs spotted in a recent music video............ what like 2 x 8"s on a little kids car, awesome
Flosstradamus feat. Travis Porter - Drop Top (Official Video) - YouTube at 1:18


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## DonH

Awesome spot! We did know about it but never was told when the video posted!


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## DonH

Fun update, IDQ8 production starts Monday! IDQS6.5" components will be shipping Monday!


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## Golden Ear

I apologize if I missed it but do you have any specs on the idq8? Mainly need to know the depth, frequency response, and can they be used ib. Also, any idea when they'll be available for purchase? Thanks Don!


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## DonH

gregerst22 said:


> Any official specs? Is the idqs6.5 on the website yet?


6.5 is on the site i believe!



Golden Ear said:


> I apologize if I missed it but do you have any specs on the idq8? Mainly need to know the depth, frequency response, and can they be used ib. Also, any idea when they'll be available for purchase? Thanks Don!


IB for sure, as far as depth, very close to the q10 as they share the same motor, as far as response i will check on monday . and you can snag them in about a week after monday! I have to build a bunch for shipment next week to multiple dealers and distributors!


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## DonH

Also, We will be making large changes to our website in the coming month. It is horrible and hard for you guys to find information! stay tuned on that!


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## Golden Ear

DonH said:


> Also, We will be making large changes to our website in the coming month. It is horrible and hard for you guys to find information! stay tuned on that!


I was thinking that while looking up the specs just now:laugh:


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## DonH

Hey guys if you have any questions etc. please contact tech support at ID via email as I will no longer be answering questions regarding the product etc. As much as it saddens me as I am an enthusiast myself it as seen by my higher ups that I am "overstepping my bounds." Sorry 

-Don


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## DonH

dbl post


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## minbari

What a bunch of crap. You are one of the only people that seems to actualy care and stays in touch with the people that use the product.

Typical management that dont have a clue


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## quality_sound

Exactly what I was thinking.


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## DonH

minbari said:


> What a bunch of crap. You are one of the only people that seems to actualy care and stays in touch with the people that use the product.
> 
> Typical management that dont have a clue





quality_sound said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.


yeah man. very over it. Stay tuned for my own brand here in the future that is for sure!


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## rton20s

Sorry to hear Don. Thanks for all you have done for the community and ID owners in the past.


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## quality_sound

DonH said:


> yeah man. very over it. Stay tuned for my own brand here in the future that is for sure!


Wait, you quit?


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## DonH

quality_sound said:


> Wait, you quit?


Not yet. still need income. Still building them speakers for now guys!


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## Sadus

Sounds like yet another death by MBA's, RIP ID


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## G POUNDER

HOLY SMOKES!!!!! I cannot believe I have missed so much! I did not even know this thread was still active!! Good on you for those of you who picked up these beasts! Don, very sorry things played out this way for you. Skimmed through the thread and saw your efforts to keep up with everyone. Will be looking for this "Own Brand" of yours, so good luck! 

Now, I would like to add my opinion and experiences with the Maxxs. When I first installed them I was actually very disappointed. They were nothing like I had hoped for. The pair sounded as good as a solid 12" sealed or something. after awhile I tried tuning my system several times with minimal improvements. After about 2 months, I took em out and put in an 18" ported @ 4.3 cubes tuned to 29hz and was happy as hell. 

That being said, while my maxs were sitting in the warehouse collecting dust, I decided to let my co-worker use them in his car while he waited some recones for his DC LVL 4 15's. Keep in mind that our systems in terms of power on tap and electrical are pretty much the same. Biggest difference is my car subs were in trunk and he has a Magnum wagon. UNREAL when I heard it in his car. Played louder and lower and moved a ****load of air! These things beat out his lvl 4's ported and did in a sealed box!!!! Impact and extension was beautiful as was the blending with his mids. Could not figure out why they didn't sound that like that in my car. I took the 18 out and put back the Mxs. I retuned EVERYTHING and they finally sounded the way they should. Still a bit better in my friends car but he has the hatch advantage so I can't win there. I also noticed the strong 40-45 hz region and also backed things down to even out the sound. My take on these are they are GREAT. I personally find that you may need to do alot of EQ work to dial them in and they do need a good break in period before they show their true worth. After reading all the posts about IB I am going to attempt it and add a 3rd Max if it is possible. I have no clue where to begin with an IB set up. Can Someone point my in the right direction plz??!!


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## G POUNDER

I would also like to mention that I got these subs right around this time last year so have had plenty time to get to know them. I was lucky though, and did not experience any flaws in the build quality on either of my subs.


----------



## Hoptologist

Thanks for bumping this thread, G POUNDER, I think I missed some email notifications somewhere. That's a bummer to hear, Don

The IDMAX 12 V3 was my first real venture into what amazing bass should sound like. It was my second sub ever, and this is going to sound cheesy, but it will always have a special place in my heart, ho-ho-ho. 

Since the beginning of the year, the IDMAX 15 has remained something that I was really interested in trying out in my car, thanks in large part to this thread, Don, and my past experience with the IDMAX. 

Subwoofer performance aside, I really value a solid online/forum presence, and above that, prefer to support companies that leave a good impression on me. If I can't get behind a company, especially when we currently have so many good ones to choose from, then it makes me question whether or not I want to support them, and hearing about this inevitably affects my perception of ID.


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## G POUNDER

Hoptologist said:


> Thanks for bumping this thread, G POUNDER, I think I missed some email notifications somewhere. That's a bummer to hear, Don
> 
> The IDMAX 12 V3 was my first real venture into what amazing bass should sound like. It was my second sub ever, and this is going to sound cheesy, but it will always have a special place in my heart, ho-ho-ho.
> 
> Since the beginning of the year, the IDMAX 15 has remained something that I was really interested in trying out in my car, thanks in large part to this thread, Don, and my past experience with the IDMAX.
> 
> Subwoofer performance aside, I really value a solid online/forum presence, and above that, prefer to support companies that leave a good impression on me. If I can't get behind a company, especially when we currently have so many good ones to choose from, then it makes me question whether or not I want to support them, and hearing about this inevitably affects my perception of ID.


Hey, NP! And I totally agree with your statement as I'm sure others will too. I just hope that there are still followers reading this thread and can benefit from what has been stated throughout. If your still thinking of getting one, DO IT! I promise you will not regret it. I have been through some of what are considered to be the best subs out there in the last 3 years and these are IMO the best that I have had. Just wish my car had more damn space!!


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## G POUNDER

gregerst22 said:


> What kind of car? If you have the room IB isn't too hard to do. Just need to make a sturdy baffle and mount it securely to the car. But after going IB with my last two subs / cars I won't go back to using a box. There's just too many advantages to it.


Well I sure hope you guys are right. Always been a box guy. Never even heard an IB set upbin my life, so really going out on a limb here. My car is a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe. Trunk has a bunch of ghetto fixes to reduce rattle but it works. Any info you need, just let me know. I appreciate any and all help!!


----------



## DonH

glad you guys like the subs I built! sadly, I have stepped away from ID to focus on my career goals more so and finish off my masters in the coming years. I look forward to going to competitions and seeing the subs I built still slamming. I remember all the serial numbers that I built. on the MAX and Q lines... hehe


----------



## G POUNDER

Hey Guys, 

For those of you running these subs IB, I got a couple questions in regards to sound.

1. Is the trunk rattle more or less of that of a set up with an enclosure?
2. Is it just as loud across the entire frequency spectrum or is there a trade off as you go higher?
3. Is it as loud outside the car as if they were in an enclosure?

Thanks to anyone with input! Want to start this up on Saturday and just trying to clarify a few things. Also, is it possible to run a 3rd woofer or not really worth the trouble?


----------



## BuickGN

G POUNDER said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> For those of you running these subs IB, I got a couple questions in regards to sound.
> 
> 1. Is the trunk rattle more or less of that of a set up with an enclosure?
> 2. Is it just as loud across the entire frequency spectrum or is there a trade off as you go higher?
> 3. Is it as loud outside the car as if they were in an enclosure?
> 
> Thanks to anyone with input! Want to start this up on Saturday and just trying to clarify a few things. Also, is it possible to run a 3rd woofer or not really worth the trouble?


This is just subjective but I honestly feel there's significsntly less trunk rattle for a given output. This might have to do solely with the fact that we're using two large woofers. I noticed the same thing when going with 10" midbass in the doors, less rattles for a given output. I can say one thing with confidence, there's not more rattles compared to sealed. 

The frequency response is generally flatter than sealed meaning more low end with a little less in the 50-70hz region but it sounds better and requires less eq. Youre not trying to get rid of a 40-70hz peak and boost the low end. The IB setups generally require less EQ right out of the box. On the other hand, IB has always sounded more punchy, tight, and quick to me. Without the box, there's more cone control and that's exactly how it sounds, more controlled. Those that say IB sounds "floppy" have never heard one. 

Mine is much quieter outside the car with the IB setup. It's like this invisible wall, I can have a window completely down and stand right next to it with the bass cranked and poke my head in and I'm always surprised at how loud it is inside while being so quiet outside. I suspect its cancellation, some of the backwave from the trunk escaping and canceling all around the car. If I walk farther away from the car with the windows down the bass get louder. With the windows up its quiet outside, especially considering I have the trunk vented to atmosphere in a couple places.


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## kaigoss69

^^^ yep, I'm struggling to find any downsides to this setup...ANY!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Tnutt19

kaigoss69 said:


> ^^^ yep, I'm struggling to find any downsides to this setup...ANY!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The downside I found to IB is that the sound was significantly different with the windows open and closed. When I had my windows open the lows were unreal and output insane, with the windows up it was not anything near the same and left much to be desired. I heard this in multiple installs and all the installs had the same issue. While with the windows open the bass is as good as it gets, transparent, dynamic, impactful, deep, efficient, exc..


----------



## Tnutt19

BuickGN said:


> This is just subjective but I honestly feel there's significsntly less trunk rattle for a given output. This might have to do solely with the fact that we're using two large woofers. I noticed the same thing when going with 10" midbass in the doors, less rattles for a given output. I can say one thing with confidence, there's not more rattles compared to sealed.
> 
> The frequency response is generally flatter than sealed meaning more low end with a little less in the 50-70hz region but it sounds better and requires less eq. Youre not trying to get rid of a 40-70hz peak and boost the low end. The IB setups generally require less EQ right out of the box. On the other hand, IB has always sounded more punchy, tight, and quick to me. Without the box, there's more cone control and that's exactly how it sounds, more controlled. Those that say IB sounds "floppy" have never heard one.
> 
> Mine is much quieter outside the car with the IB setup. It's like this invisible wall, I can have a window completely down and stand right next to it with the bass cranked and poke my head in and I'm always surprised at how loud it is inside while being so quiet outside. I suspect its cancellation, some of the backwave from the trunk escaping and canceling all around the car. If I walk farther away from the car with the windows down the bass get louder. With the windows up its quiet outside, especially considering I have the trunk vented to atmosphere in a couple places.


Nice I think venting to outside would be a game changer, that is the only solution I could think up to solve my only issue with IB that was mentioned in the above post.

And I support the rattle question, seems there is less rattle, then again every car I ever had I go crazy with deadening. I did notice though there is a slight boost needed around the 70-80hz, a little boost made all the difference and the sound at that point was beautiful all the way through.


----------



## kaigoss69

Tnutt19 said:


> The downside I found to IB is that the sound was significantly different with the windows open and closed. When I had my windows open the lows were unreal and output insane, with the windows up it was not anything near the same and left much to be desired. I heard this in multiple installs and all the installs had the same issue. While with the windows open the bass is as good as it gets, transparent, dynamic, impactful, deep, efficient, exc..



In my case, the difference between the windows open and the windows closed is not that big but the response is definitely better with the windows down. But even with the windows up it sounds many times better than any other set up I have tried. I look at the little boost I get with the windows down as a bonus, not as a flaw so to speak. While I am not 100% sure, I would think that in your case the QTC of the system is too high, Meaning you either have the wrong drivers installed or you have too many drivers installed for the given trunk volume. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tnutt19

kaigoss69 said:


> In my case, the difference between the windows open and the windows closed is not that big but the response is definitely better with the windows down. But even with the windows up it sounds many times better than any other set up I have tried. I look at the little boost I get with the windows down as a bonus, not as a flaw so to speak. While I am not 100% sure, I would think that in your case the QTC of the system is too high, Meaning you either have the wrong drivers installed or you have too many drivers installed for the given trunk volume.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This was an install about 18 months ago, I had 2 18s installed in a 5 series trunk, the trunk was pretty large but naturally could have benefited from what BuickGN did, however I did have sealed an ported boxes in the same trunk from 18s to 12s and did not suffer the same issue as I did with IB. That was my biggest issue, and as you know, in IB cone area is king so this is hard to get past unless you are able to vent adequately to outside the car.


----------



## BuickGN

Tnutt19 said:


> This was an install about 18 months ago, I had 2 18s installed in a 5 series trunk, the trunk was pretty large but naturally could have benefited from what BuickGN did, however I did have sealed an ported boxes in the same trunk from 18s to 12s and did not suffer the same issue as I did with IB. That was my biggest issue, and as you know, in IB cone area is king so this is hard to get past unless you are able to vent adequately to outside the car.


You didn't happen to be using high VAS/Qts subs like the FI IB3 subs, were you? Some of the home IB subs would be smothered by even a 5 series trunk space. Also the volume of the cabin probably has some effect on Qtc but I suspect the smaller of the two (trunk) has the most effect. 

I've always had a large chsnge from window up vs down except with IB. The difference is only there literally in the <25hz range. On normal music it sounds the same with the windows up or down. I have to go with Kaigoss's idea of too high of a Qtc. 

If interested, the only venting to atmosohere I did was removing the rubber flaps in the factory vents and cutting the carpet around them. It made a small difference with the IB15s. No difference with the single W6. But if you have some home IB subs, it might be the difference you're looking for.


----------



## SilkySlim

Tnutt19 said:


> The downside I found to IB is that the sound was significantly different with the windows open and closed. When I had my windows open the lows were unreal and output insane, with the windows up it was not anything near the same and left much to be desired. I heard this in multiple installs and all the installs had the same issue. While with the windows open the bass is as good as it gets, transparent, dynamic, impactful, deep, efficient, exc..



I haven't had happen yet ( the windows cracked or down has given me slight bumps in output but not the difference you describe. In my 5 series. Good luck man. The thing that is cool is the cancelation outside really quiets down the low end energy outside the car. If you are trying to impress others with a lot of bass outside the vehicle you'll be disappointed. But inside you'll be happy happy happy.


----------



## minbari

My IB 15s have an audible difference with windows down. Just have to turn down the bass knob level yo compensate. They are 0.7qts subs.
Since i drive with Windows up 95% of the time, i dont much care


----------



## BuickGN

So I wonder if high Qts might be the cause of the changes. My AEs had only a small change when the windows were down and only in the lowest of the low stuff. Same with my IDMax 15s with a relatively low Vas and .5 Qts. Does the higher Qtc bring the changes up into the more audible range? This might be a good argument for lower Qts subs IB besides personal preference.


----------



## McKinneyMike

DonH said:


> glad you guys like the subs I built! sadly, I have stepped away from ID to focus on my career goals more so and finish off my masters in the coming years. I look forward to going to competitions and seeing the subs I built still slamming. I remember all the serial numbers that I built. on the MAX and Q lines... hehe


Best of luck Don!


----------



## G POUNDER

BuickGN said:


> This is just subjective but I honestly feel there's significsntly less trunk rattle for a given output. This might have to do solely with the fact that we're using two large woofers. I noticed the same thing when going with 10" midbass in the doors, less rattles for a given output. I can say one thing with confidence, there's not more rattles compared to sealed.
> 
> The frequency response is generally flatter than sealed meaning more low end with a little less in the 50-70hz region but it sounds better and requires less eq. Youre not trying to get rid of a 40-70hz peak and boost the low end. The IB setups generally require less EQ right out of the box. On the other hand, IB has always sounded more punchy, tight, and quick to me. Without the box, there's more cone control and that's exactly how it sounds, more controlled. Those that say IB sounds "floppy" have never heard one.
> 
> Mine is much quieter outside the car with the IB setup. It's like this invisible wall, I can have a window completely down and stand right next to it with the bass cranked and poke my head in and I'm always surprised at how loud it is inside while being so quiet outside. I suspect its cancellation, some of the backwave from the trunk escaping and canceling all around the car. If I walk farther away from the car with the windows down the bass get louder. With the windows up its quiet outside, especially considering I have the trunk vented to atmosphere in a couple places.


Thank you for this right here. It's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Can someone explain what "venting to the outside world or atmosephere" is as well as how I would do this? I thought that for IB to be good, you would want the trunk sealed up pretty well and mine is. I just fixed the last bit of rattling from my bumper this weekend and it sounds great on the outside with the sealed box that I have mine in. The biggest reason for me wanting to do this Ib set up is power handling and the gain in low end. I've got 3k going to these with 2 batts and a hybrid 10F cap and these subs feel like they want more power in the box they are in. If the efficiency goes up as much as people say with IB these things should sound great with that power if they can hold up.

Thanks again for the feedback!


----------



## kaigoss69

G POUNDER said:


> Thank you for this right here. It's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Can someone explain what "venting to the outside world or atmosephere" is as well as how I would do this? I thought that for IB to be good, you would want the trunk sealed up pretty well and mine is. I just fixed the last bit of rattling from my bumper this weekend and it sounds great on the outside with the sealed box that I have mine in. The biggest reason for me wanting to do this Ib set up is power handling and the gain in low end. I've got 3k going to these with 2 batts and a hybrid 10F cap and these subs feel like they want more power in the box they are in. If the efficiency goes up as much as people say with IB these things should sound great with that power if they can hold up.
> 
> Thanks again for the feedback!


The term "Infinite Baffle" basically means that the airspace behind the subs is infinitely large (in terms of the affect it has on the output of the subwoofer). If you seal the trunk off completely from the outside, then you are basically running the sub in a large box, which still has a compressible air volume inside of it, which could affect the output of the sub. In the real world though, you cannot seal the trunk off completely, so it acts like a large leaky enclosure. To give the sub(s) as large an air volume as possible, you can open up the airflaps in your trunk that are there to relieve the air pressure buildup when you are slamming the trunk lid shut. This will still not make it 100% IB, but it helps. In my case, I only have a single 15 and the trunk volume is large enough to pass for "IB", but the air flaps were making noise when the music was playing so I had to open them up anyway.

When you hear about a "sealed-off" trunk, what people normally refer to is the seal between the trunk and the passenger cabin. Here you want as little air leaks as possible, to prevent the front and back waves from canceling each other out.

I can confirm everything that Buick said, less trunk rattles, much better (almost flat) FR on the low end, and surprisingly quiet outside the vehicle.


----------



## G POUNDER

kaigoss69 said:


> The term "Infinite Baffle" basically means that the airspace behind the subs is infinitely large (in terms of the affect it has on the output of the subwoofer). If you seal the trunk off completely from the outside, then you are basically running the sub in a large box, which still has a compressible air volume inside of it, which could affect the output of the sub. In the real world though, you cannot seal the trunk off completely, so it acts like a large leaky enclosure. To give the sub(s) as large an air volume as possible, you can open up the airflaps in your trunk that are there to relieve the air pressure buildup when you are slamming the trunk lid shut. This will still not make it 100% IB, but it helps. In my case, I only have a single 15 and the trunk volume is large enough to pass for "IB", but the air flaps were making noise when the music was playing so I had to open them up anyway.
> 
> When you hear about a "sealed-off" trunk, what people normally refer to is the seal between the trunk and the passenger cabin. Here you want as little air leaks as possible, to prevent the front and back waves from canceling each other out.
> 
> I can confirm everything that Buick said, less trunk rattles, much better (almost flat) FR on the low end, and surprisingly quiet outside the vehicle.


Nice!! Thank you for making that easy to understand. I get what your saying and makes me wonder now, all the things I have done to "quiet" my trunk rattle, will that need to be undone? For example: all around the seal of the trunk, I used some open cell foam and have stuck pieces of soft rubber anywhere that I can hear rattling including in between the bumper and the frame of the car. I also just went out and looked around the trunk but I don't see anything like a flap or vent. Is there a particular place in the trunk I should be looking at?


----------



## G POUNDER

gregerst22 said:


> Found this on the internet similar car. The air vents are in the black plastic rectangle. Probably one on each side. It'll work best if you can remove and expose them normally the trunk liner will be covering them up.


Actually, after seeing this, I think I did see something like that when i was deadening the trunk. And your right, it is behind the trunk liner. Will the liner covering the vent also need to be removed and will that be sufficient venting or should I be opening up a couple more spots?

And thanks by the way, that pic really helped!!


----------



## G POUNDER

gregerst22 said:


> I think I would experiment with the liner in and out. Then decide what works best. What you may notice is flatter, more extended bottom end in the bass. In my car with one Max15 I think I got +2db at 20Hz without the liner. It's not much but my vents are actually accessed through the floor and it's pretty easy to lift the flaps up to expose them.


Thank you sir! I'm all for a few extra db's if it ain't gonna cost me another 3k to have it! I will try both and see. Something else that has been widely debated is whether or not ANY sub can be used in an IB configuration. I have a pair of 12" Sundown X woofers with the new "SPL" cones on the way and wondered if they might work IB. Haven't seen anyone running them in this fashion though.


----------



## McKinneyMike

OK folks I am not a techno bass head, but I love real instrument created sounding bass. Classic rock to modern rock. Love to turn it up on occasion, but not to concert levels anymore. I am trying to decide if a single 12" will satisfy my wants and desires or do i really need a 15" sub. I really want to try one of the IDMAX series of woofers and I only have space for a single woofer in my extended cab truck. 

I don't want to put it under the back jump seat as I do not want to be limited in what I use. I have even considered removing the back seat entirely and fabbing up a nice box and amp rack along the back wall and floor. Again not looking for 150 SPL territory, but love great kick and extreme tautness down to the 30Hz range mostly. I will be using a old school bridged PPI PC2600 amplifier to drive my sub. 

Would a IDMAX 15" be more than I would likely appreciate? I come from an audiophile background having solid Levinson, Krell, Audio Research, etc and owning that stuff too. Thundering audio is great as long as it is super controlled IMO. If there is correct balance to the sound, bring it on!


----------



## G POUNDER

McKinneyMike said:


> OK folks I am not a techno bass head, but I love real instrument created sounding bass. Classic rock to modern rock. Love to turn it up on occasion, but not to concert levels anymore. I am trying to decide if a single 12" will satisfy my wants and desires or do i really need a 15" sub. I really want to try one of the IDMAX series of woofers and I only have space for a single woofer in my extended cab truck.
> 
> I don't want to put it under the back jump seat as I do not want to be limited in what I use. I have even considered removing the back seat entirely and fabbing up a nice box and amp rack along the back wall and floor. Again not looking for 150 SPL territory, but love great kick and extreme tautness down to the 30Hz range mostly. I will be using a old school bridged PPI PC2600 amplifier to drive my sub.
> 
> Would a IDMAX 15" be more than I would likely appreciate? I come from an audiophile background having solid Levinson, Krell, Audio Research, etc and owning that stuff too. Thundering audio is great as long as it is super controlled IMO. If there is correct balance to the sound, bring it on!


To be fair here, I'm not sure this question can be answered unless you know for sure how much space your willing to give up. Most of the guys running the Max 15's on here are using an IB set up and require a lot of cone area for their desired output. I'm going to assume your gonna want an enclosure for this and if that is the case, you can get what your looking for out of 12" without issue. If you decide that space is no longer a concern, then I would say try the 15". You would get all that you asked for with output to spare if you wanted it. That's my take on it anyway if it helps.


----------



## McKinneyMike

G POUNDER said:


> To be fair here, I'm not sure this question can be answered unless you know for sure how much space your willing to give up. Most of the guys running the Max 15's on here are using an IB set up and require a lot of cone area for their desired output. I'm going to assume your gonna want an enclosure for this and if that is the case, you can get what your looking for out of 12" without issue. If you decide that space is no longer a concern, then I would say try the 15". You would get all that you asked for with output to spare if you wanted it. That's my take on it anyway if it helps.


To be honest I never use the jump seat. I travel alone or with just one person almost always. I was thinking about maybe removing the seating completely and doing some form custom sub box amp rack in that area with a stealthy look but no seating at all. I would like to retain a small area for a suitcase or two for travelling on short trips, but otherwise that would be it for that space. I have a trailer and a bed if I need to carry anything. I just hate to think that I didn't try something new for me.


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## BuickGN

It's an easy choice. Go with the 15 if money isnt a problem no matter what your goal is. The benefits of larger subs have been gone over many times so I won't go there. In the IDMax subs, the 15s sound considerably different and better, like a completely different sub and better in every possible way. That's why its so easy to recommend. It sounds better and it requires less power and it gets louder so it doesnt matter what the goal is. 

IB is better than sealed in pretty much every way. Not only is the response deeper and flatter and sound quality better, output potential is the same, I wanted to reinforce that IB gets every bit as loud as sealed but with less power. 

Ported on the other hand is a great option. It has its own set of advantages of which have been gone over many times. So if it were up to me, I would do a 15 IB. If space were not an issue, a ported 12 or 15 would be awesome. Sealed would not be an option for me because IB is better in almost every way as is ported. IB has the same output potental as sealed and requires practically no space. Ported can give significantly more output over sealed but it takes up just a little more space than sealed. Nowhere would sealed be an option. 

One thing that's purely personal preference is I like a sub like the Max 15 in an IB setup because it has huge cone area and more excursion than 99% of the subs out there. I'm sure it will be great ported but it seems like a waste of s high displacement sub to not use it. I realize my logic is flawed especially when I use a pair of 15s to reduce excursion and distortion when ported does the same thing. Still, even if it makes no sense I like using a high excursion sub in an IB setup where it can use that excursion. 

The most important thing I want to reinforce is if you're trying to choose between IDMax subs, the 15 is in a league of its own. It just sounds better. I know this is subjective but everyone who has run the 15 and 12s so far has had the same opinion.


----------



## G POUNDER

I would agree with Buick and can attest to the Max being on another level. I have not run mine IB yet but it's in the works. It's performance to me thus far is second to none. I have owned MANY 15's but this one truly sounds like something else. As to your dilemma, I still think it boils down to how much space your willing to give up.

Personally, after much self debate and pressure from all those that have heard mine, I have decided to try porting one before try them IB. I could probably port both but I feel with the given space I have, 1 of these ported would sound better. Trying to port both may be choking them in my trunk. Just finished working up all the cuts for the enclosure and will be completing it this weekend.

If you are gonna give up the space and do the custom work, DO NOT HESITATE to do it with a Max 15! This is a decision that will save you time and money in the long run, never having to be in fixed in that dilemma again.


----------



## McKinneyMike

Thanks for the input. I am working out the plans for a sub/amp rack that will span the entire back where the jump seat is now. A 3 cubic foot sealed enclosure and amp racks on either side of the cabinet with a subtly sloped front. I would love to add some large VU meters to the amp racks just for looks.

I am trying to mock up something where the racks are recessed at least half of the cabinet depth if not a little more. I have never tried to do anything like this before so I might have more questions. 

The front stage is Focal 6.5 KRX2's. After I get the sub work done I will add a DSP. I am leary of the learning curve but know that they are the way to go for the best possible sound too. Thanks again for the input.


----------



## McKinneyMike

Ok I bought myself a IDMAX 15 V4 D2 today. The price was way to good to pass up vs the IDMAX 12. 

I am going to take out the entire rear seating and build a 3.3cu. ft. sealed enclosure centered in the back of the cab with amp racks on either side of the sub cabinet. I will have vented bracing dadoed into the walls of the cabinet and double thickness front baffle for the sub. I have a friend with a CNC that I might have him make all the cabinet components, but I have a shop full of tools too. I want to get it done asap as i want to have it ready for a Thanksgiving road trip.

Has anyone here ever used bendable plywood for forming up stuff (not the actual sub cabinet). Thinking of curving in the outside corners of the amp racks and upholstering them in complementary color to the seats/carpeting/trim. Hope to get started this coming weekend.


----------



## G POUNDER

McKinneyMike said:


> Ok I bought myself a IDMAX 15 V4 D2 today. The price was way to good to pass up vs the IDMAX 12.
> 
> I am going to take out the entire rear seating and build a 3.3cu. ft. sealed enclosure centered in the back of the cab with amp racks on either side of the sub cabinet. I will have vented bracing dadoed into the walls of the cabinet and double thickness front baffle for the sub. I have a friend with a CNC that I might have him make all the cabinet components, but I have a shop full of tools too. I want to get it done asap as i want to have it ready for a Thanksgiving road trip.
> 
> Has anyone here ever used bendable plywood for forming up stuff (not the actual sub cabinet). Thinking of curving in the outside corners of the amp racks and upholstering them in complementary color to the seats/carpeting/trim. Hope to get started this coming weekend.


Congrats Man! You won't be sorry. Im not gonna say running sealed is a terrible thing cuz thats how mine are currently but with 3 cubes to work with, you could do ported to really capitalize. I spoke with ID yesterday and the specs for enclosure recommendations are stated as GROSS NOT NET. So a ported box @ 2.75 - 3 cubes at your desired tuning would be perfect with your space. Just something for you to consider.


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## McKinneyMike

I am pumped to hear this thing. I have always used smaller woofers as I never considered myself a bass head, but I just got this itch to see if I was truly misleading myself. I will consider the ported cabinet.


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## BuickGN

Congrats. It's pretty, isn't it lol. 

You'll probably love it. Once you get used to the big sub sound, I would be very surprised if you ever want to go back to smaller subs. These 15s are just better in every way than the 10 and 12" versions. 

I'm glad you're giving it a good amount of airspace. I'll have to model it when I get home but I think they looked good in 3 cubes back when I modeled them. I believe the response isn't too far off of IB.


----------



## McKinneyMike

BuickGN said:


> Congrats. It's pretty, isn't it lol.
> 
> You'll probably love it. Once you get used to the big sub sound, I would be very surprised if you ever want to go back to smaller subs. These 15s are just better in every way than the 10 and 12" versions.
> 
> I'm glad you're giving it a good amount of airspace. I'll have to model it when I get home but I think they looked good in 3 cubes back when I modeled them. I believe the response isn't too far off of IB.


Thanks. I think that it looked like I was close to the nirvana point (.70) at 3.3 cubic feet. If I am off let me know. I have a tough time using WinISD Pro and knowing that I am understanding everything as I should. Damn this thing is heavy


----------



## DonH

try lifting, flipping, building, and boxing well over 500 lmao


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## McKinneyMike

DonH said:


> try lifting, flipping, building, and boxing well over 500 lmao


Don, I own my own hardwood lumber business. I throw around large boards everyday. This sub is heavy, but I have small boards that outweigh these brutes  I can see where they could put a few inches on ones arms after a short time of moving them around though.


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## SilkySlim

They are just in a different league and so responsive! Can't wait to here how it goes Mike!


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## McKinneyMike

SilkySlim said:


> They are just in a different league and so responsive! Can't wait to here how it goes Mike!


Got my fingers crossed. My old chrome PC2600 should be able to make it move to suit my needs quite well I hope. Just need to come up with a plan to fab something that will not look ghetto in the back area of the cab.


----------



## Kevmoso

I wish we had more data on this woofer.
Buick, weren't you thinking about sending one for klippel testing? Someone was... I would be willing to chip in for that testing. I wonder if anyone else would too?


----------



## G POUNDER

Kevmoso said:


> I wish we had more data on this woofer.
> Buick, weren't you thinking about sending one for klippel testing? Someone was... I would be willing to chip in for that testing. I wonder if anyone else would too?


I too, am willing to chip in. I'm sure if a few more ppl get on board, someone can make this happen. We can ALL benefit from the testing.


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## DonH

If you want my opinion, bombard ID with emails about wanting solid testing done. seriously. Friday is my last day with the company, after that I will join in


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## DonH

McKinneyMike said:


> I am pumped to hear this thing. I have always used smaller woofers as I never considered myself a bass head, but I just got this itch to see if I was truly misleading myself. I will consider the ported cabinet.



well, did you take a peek under the skirt and like what you see? haha


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## McKinneyMike

Well she looks like a keeper, but I haven't heard her sing yet


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## Kevmoso

Good idea Don.
Email sent.


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## DonH

Its a no if you dont ask right?


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## McKinneyMike

Here is my initial sketch of how the sub cabinet will look from the side. Final dimensions outside will be 23.5" tall (at the rear of the cabinet), 18" wide, 18" deep at the bottom and 15" deep at the top. The small foot at the front is because of the lip at the rear of the cab. I will have an angle brace running front to back along the woofer axis too to lock all four sides of the cabinet together around the woofer shape internally. Need to get it into CAD and see what the cost will be to have it cut on a CNC. I will likely just do it all here in the shop though. 

This will be way bigger than anything that I have ever put in any vehicle. I will have approximately 21" of width and 23" of height on either side of the sub cabinet in the back to work with for racks. 

Its only MDF and a some time. If I hate it little hurt and I can sleep knowing what it was like with a 15 incher in the cab


----------



## Kevmoso

DonH said:


> Its a no if you dont ask right?


Its apparently a no anyway.

Me: Is there any possibility of ID sending this speaker for klippel testing?
ID: We use LMS to test all of our subwoofers and speakers.

What a non answer


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## kaigoss69

I don't know if we need Klippel testing. The damn things sound awesome, and they take every bit of the rated power, even in IB. I'm running 950 watts and haven't even come close to Xmax yet. What else can you ask from a subwoofer? Did I say the damn thing sounds awesome? No lab test is gonna tell you that.


----------



## BuickGN

kaigoss69 said:


> I don't know if we need Klippel testing. The damn things sound awesome, and they take every bit of the rated power, even in IB. I'm running 950 watts and haven't even come close to Xmax yet. What else can you ask from a subwoofer? Did I say the damn thing sounds awesome? No lab test is gonna tell you that.


Not hitting xmax with 950w IB sucks. I wish it hit xmax with 200-600w like most do. It begs the question, how much power would they require for xmax sealed? 3,000? Even the 13W7 I had was close to stretching the surround out which was past xmax with under 700w. Efficiency is ok but not like the AEs. Luckily the cone area gives decent output even with moderate excursion. I still want to know if one of these subs will hit xmax in a sealed enclosure at or before its thermal limit. I have a feeling they will suffer a meltdown before hitting full linear output and that's just not right. 

They are about the best sounding subs I've heard but I want to know why. Money is the reason I haven't gotten them Klippeled yet. I would like to send both off to check consistency but everytime I get ahead, something huge comes up to put me behind. It will probably be early next year but luckily I get to enjoy them until then.


----------



## BuickGN

Kevmoso said:


> Its apparently a no anyway.
> 
> Me: Is there any possibility of ID sending this speaker for klippel testing?
> ID: We use LMS to test all of our subwoofers and speakers.
> 
> What a non answer


Their reluctance to do Klippel testing makes me wonder if there's something they're hiding. It's that reluctance or maybe arrogance that makes me want to get them tested so badly.


----------



## Hoptologist

BuickGN said:


> Their reluctance to do Klippel testing makes me wonder if there's something they're hiding. It's that reluctance or maybe arrogance that makes me want to get them tested so badly.


Buick, clear those PM's!


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## BuickGN

gregerst22 said:


> We can theorize why they behave the way they do. The small motor and stiff suspension? The motor in the 15 is smaller than the 12. But why? And you're probably right they thermally limited more than anything. What bugs me is that they don't even publish the Le. Again why or rather why not?
> Has ID klippeled any speaker? I think a lot of manufactures avoid doing it. Where's JL and theirs? I think they posted results of the zr800 once and they did really well but you can't find the results anymore. It seems the real little guys are more willing to have their speakers tested because they have a lot more to prove and need to work harder to earn our business.
> What we need to do is boycott any speaker that isn't klippleled. Haha


It woke be nice to see klippel results on all subs. It might keep some of them more honest. For what it's worth JL donated a sub to be independently Klippeled several years ago. It was a long thread in the klippel section. The W7 was put on the Dumax and did extremely well but that was purely 3rd party testing as far as I know. 

Inductance bothers me too. I'm really starting to think they don't know how to measure it. Ive heard inductance change over stroke was really bad on the smaller previous model subs.


----------



## DonH

BuickGN said:


> Their reluctance to do Klippel testing makes me wonder if there's something they're hiding. It's that reluctance or maybe arrogance that makes me want to get them tested so badly.


not sure what they could be hiding :laugh: its a pretty straight forward design driver really... seriously. I believe its the simplicity behind it that makes it sound so swell... I have 4 sitting in my garage... now what to do with them haha. it was my personal parting gift to myself from image today

not to mention who built them


----------



## SilkySlim

Awesome gift!! But you'll be missed!


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## 04silverz

Sorry to see you go Don. Was always nice to see your input on here.

Side note, I caved and bought a 15. I've never spent this much on a single sub. After waiting years and years with there always being rumors of it finally being built I just felt I need to see what it's all about. I almost went with a pair of v3 12s as I know I love that setup but it's time for me to try the15. I've only ever ran 15s once before, pair of re Se 15s a few years back. 

So, ported yall are thinking 3 cubes gross? Will be going in silverado in the Ext cab part, no rear seat so I have tons of room to play with


----------



## DonH

04silverz said:


> Sorry to see you go Don. Was always nice to see your input on here.
> 
> Side note, I caved and bought a 15. I've never spent this much on a single sub. After waiting years and years with there always being rumors of it finally being built I just felt I need to see what it's all about. I almost went with a pair of v3 12s as I know I love that setup but it's time for me to try the15. I've only ever ran 15s once before, pair of re Se 15s a few years back.
> 
> So, ported yall are thinking 3 cubes gross? Will be going in silverado in the Ext cab part, no rear seat so I have tons of room to play with


from what I have modeled on the pulled parameters, I like 4.23ft^3 @31.5hz on 800w input


----------



## 04silverz

I'll give it a whirl
I'm not always super precise on cuts so I'll probably round to 4.25.


----------



## DonH

04silverz said:


> I'll give it a whirl
> I'm not always super precise on cuts so I'll probably round to 4.25.


hah! make sure you have 15in^2 per cube of port area if doing a slot port FYI


----------



## 04silverz

DonH said:


> hah! make sure you have 15in^2 per cube of port area if doing a slot port FYI


May do a aero port as I have a couple laying around collecting dust. I'll have to play with measurements for the cuts and see. I have part of a sheet of Birch laying around I'd like to try to use without buying another sheet. Probably end up buying a sheet though.


----------



## Arete

DonH said:


> hah! make sure you have 15in^2 per cube of port area if doing a slot port FYI


Don, 

on the spec of the 15 inch idmax it says that 3 cu ft is the "audiophile" box size. How much different would the 2 cu. ft. size sound?? Just curious but how wide and how long is 3 cu ft? I have a 2007 Honda Accord and I want as much trunk space as possible without sacrificing sound quality. I was tempted to get 2 10 inch subs but I really want to try the single 15 route. Is it save to run a full 1200 watts to these speakers? I know that they wont see that kind of power ALL the time but I know the v3's were known for being a bit fragile when it comes to power. Thanks for your help. I'm very excited to hear these speakers.


----------



## McKinneyMike

Arete said:


> Just curious but how wide and how long is 3 cu ft?


I am not Don, but 3 cubic feet in my build is 22" tall, 18" deep and 18" wide approx. 

Go here and input some sizes and see what you get.


----------



## BuickGN

Arete said:


> Don,
> 
> on the spec of the 15 inch idmax it says that 3 cu ft is the "audiophile" box size. How much different would the 2 cu. ft. size sound?? Just curious but how wide and how long is 3 cu ft? I have a 2007 Honda Accord and I want as much trunk space as possible without sacrificing sound quality. I was tempted to get 2 10 inch subs but I really want to try the single 15 route. Is it save to run a full 1200 watts to these speakers? I know that they wont see that kind of power ALL the time but I know the v3's were known for being a bit fragile when it comes to power. Thanks for your help. I'm very excited to hear these speakers.


The smaller you go the more "boomy" and "slow" it will sound along with less efficiency too. How much exactly I don't know but I would try and stay close to 3 cubes if possible. The size of the sub doesn't matter when it comes to how "quick" it sounds but if the box is too small you might end up fitting that stereotype. 

Have you thought about infinite baffle? It's easy to do in that car. I have two of these subs in my '06 TL which is basically the same car and I have almost 90% of my trunk still usable and with more low end, better efficiency, and it sounds quicker and tighter than sealed since they're basically sitting in over 16 cubes of airspace. 

I haven't put 1200w on one yet but they're about to have 1200w each. There are a couple guys in here that have fed them the full 1200w or close to it and they seem to handle it just fine and one of them was IB.


----------



## loudnproud808

i know there tends to be a HUGE discussion on what a real 1200 watts would be , like if u have a "1200" watt kenwood amp but its actually less, i am not perfectly knowledgeable on this subject but i have had 2 different 12maxv3s in seperate vehicles , both ported , one [email protected] and the other [email protected] but each of these were hook up to a sound stream stealth 1200d , now if thats a true 1200 watts i am not sure , i can tell you that i used quality wiring and did the big 3 to my alternator and both subs where dual2ohm wired to get the most out the amp and that i had a yellow top optima up front in each car and a shuruken battery in back for my integra hatch , and a kinetik battery in the trunk of my altima .. so im not sure exactly how much watts were fed to my subs but i can tell u that the subs ate everything i threw at it and never blew , and i litterally abused these subs everyday pushing them to there limits.. i want a 15v4 sooo bad and to run it IB.. hopefully in the future when my money is better again some of you can help me with that! but can anyone explain what kind of wattage i was sending those subs ? or do u need more info ? any way both of my 12Maxv3s each easily handled the ss.stealth1200d , and i felt that was a nice cheap small footprint combo for each other, the amp worked well and never over heated..


----------



## Arete

BuickGN said:


> The smaller you go the more "boomy" and "slow" it will sound along with less efficiency too. How much exactly I don't know but I would try and stay close to 3 cubes if possible. The size of the sub doesn't matter when it comes to how "quick" it sounds but if the box is too small you might end up fitting that stereotype.
> 
> Have you thought about infinite baffle? It's easy to do in that car. I have two of these subs in my '06 TL which is basically the same car and I have almost 90% of my trunk still usable and with more low end, better efficiency, and it sounds quicker and tighter than sealed since they're basically sitting in over 16 cubes of airspace.
> 
> I haven't put 1200w on one yet but they're about to have 1200w each. There are a couple guys in here that have fed them the full 1200w or close to it and they seem to handle it just fine and one of them was IB.


If I was just running 1 15 IB how would that compare to 1 15 sealed in terms of output? Big difference? 2 would be hella expensive. I really want to go this route because I want my trunk space. I had switched the plan back to 1 or 2 10 inch IDMAX that I was going to put in either the left or right side of the trunk in a custom made fiberglass enclosure. This way I wouldn't lose my trunk space. I would be having a shop set up the IB install. Is it Pretty straightforward? I doubt this type of setup is a common request.


----------



## DonH

I gotta ask, is it safe to say ID is dying?


----------



## greydmv

DonH said:


> I gotta ask, is it safe to say ID is dying?


Don, why do you say that?


----------



## rton20s

DonH said:


> I gotta ask, is it safe to say ID is dying?


I have to admit, Image Dynamics has fared better than I thought they would after the departure of Eric Stevens. I think a lot of people are still watching to see what happens. Especially now that they no longer have a "face" here on DIYMA.


----------



## DonH

greydmv said:


> Don, why do you say that?


huge decline in purchases from shops local to me. I personally know alot of the installers, most are not installing ID any longer... I was curious so I asked... 

Also, the reason why I left was due to the direction some folks that call the shots wanted the company to go. just trying to solidify my reason for leaving alos really. hah


----------



## rton20s

I figured you would have more of an inside line of the state of Image Dynamics as a business than anyone here on DIYMA.


----------



## greydmv

DonH said:


> huge decline in purchases from shops local to me. I personally know alot of the installers, most are not installing ID any longer... I was curious so I asked...
> 
> Also, the reason why I left was due to the direction some folks that call the shots wanted the company to go. just trying to solidify my reason for leaving alos really. hah



oh ok, I had just decided to purchase an IDMAX 15 to be ran IB, had me scared for a moment.


----------



## The ///Man

DonH said:


> huge decline in purchases from shops local to me. I personally know alot of the installers, most are not installing ID any longer... I was curious so I asked...
> 
> Also, the reason why I left was due to the direction some folks that call the shots wanted the company to go. just trying to solidify my reason for leaving alos really. hah


I picked up another line because I got tired of waiting for stuff to come out, much that was supposed to come out the beginning of the year still isn't out, and some of the old stuff isn't available anymore. It is getting annoying.


----------



## Tnutt19

DonH said:


> Also, the reason why I left was due to the direction some folks that call the shots wanted the company to go. just trying to solidify my reason for leaving alos really. hah


Are you aloud to share what direction they are wanting to take the company.
This could mean several different things, namely the biggest concern I think we would all have since we have seen this with so many good brands would be if they are going cheap and using past reputation to supplement.


----------



## Golden Ear

There's very little talk about the IDQv4 anymore. That's really too bad since the v2 is regarded as one of the best sounding subs and the v4 was an attempt to get back to that status. It's almost like the maxV4 in an ib setup has taken over as their sq sub


----------



## BuickGN

Arete said:


> If I was just running 1 15 IB how would that compare to 1 15 sealed in terms of output? Big difference? 2 would be hella expensive. I really want to go this route because I want my trunk space. I had switched the plan back to 1 or 2 10 inch IDMAX that I was going to put in either the left or right side of the trunk in a custom made fiberglass enclosure. This way I wouldn't lose my trunk space. I would be having a shop set up the IB install. Is it Pretty straightforward? I doubt this type of setup is a common request.


One sealed Max 15 and one IB Max 15 will have the same output potential which is a lot. The IB one will require less power to hit full output and it will especially dig deeper with less power while also having a "quicker" or tighter sound. 

With the much higher than average cone area and excursion, a single Max 15 sealed or IB will get as loud as a pair of "average" 15s and sound very good doing so. These subs sound so good that I would run them even if they didn't have such great output. 

For what it's worth, a single 15 IB will have more output than a pair of 10s whether they're sealed or IB and efficiency will be close. 

If you have a shop do it, you will have to stay the course. The shop will tell you it won't work or it won't be loud enough, sound good enough, etc. Just remember that most of us that go IB have never gone back to using an enclosure for a reason. The main thing to do is have a strong baffle for the sub to mount on. I recommend 2-1/4" thick but you could get away with 1.5" if you have to. The big thing is to seal the trunk from the cabin. You don't have to worry about the trunk to the outside world. If the shop can at least make a great baffle, you can go in a do whatever sealing they don't do. IB is really simple, easier than sealed IMO.


----------



## kaigoss69

^^^ I have a single 15 in IB with 900w on it and I can't crank it all the way without requiring ear plugs. That being said, I prefer SQ and I have the amp gain matched to the rest of the speakers and even at ear splitting volume levels this sub is barely moving. The sound this sub produces in IB is nothing short of amazing.


----------



## quality_sound

BuickGN said:


> One sealed Max 15 and one IB Max 15 will have the same output potential which is a lot. The IB one will require less power to hit full output and it will especially dig deeper with less power while also having a "quicker" or tighter sound.
> 
> With the much higher than average cone area and excursion, a single Max 15 sealed or IB will get as loud as a pair of "average" 15s and sound very good doing so. These subs sound so good that I would run them even if they didn't have such great output.
> 
> For what it's worth, a single 15 IB will have more output than a pair of 10s whether they're sealed or IB and efficiency will be close.
> 
> If you have a shop do it, you will have to stay the course. The shop will tell you it won't work or it won't be loud enough, sound good enough, etc. Just remember that most of us that go IB have never gone back to using an enclosure for a reason. The main thing to do is have a strong baffle for the sub to mount on. I recommend 2-1/4" thick but you could get away with 1.5" if you have to. The big thing is to seal the trunk from the cabin. You don't have to worry about the trunk to the outside world. If the shop can at least make a great baffle, you can go in a do whatever sealing they don't do. IB is really simple, easier than sealed IMO.



How do you figure it has more cone area than a "regular" 15? Do you mean a typical wide surround 15?


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## BuickGN

quality_sound said:


> How do you figure it has more cone area than a "regular" 15? Do you mean a typical wide surround 15?


I haven't seen any 15s with 935cm^2 of cone area either wide or narrow surround. The AE IB15 is touted as having fairly high cone area at 830cm^2. There are plenty in the upper 700 range.


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## DonH

all of the q's and max's are larger than noted. a 10 is really an 11, a 12 is really a 13, and a 15 is really a 16 lol


----------



## Golden Ear

That's makes sense since I was having trouble getting low end extension with the 12 in a 1 cubic foot enclosure. It should probably really be in a 1.35 or 1.4 sealed enclosure to get them lows.


----------



## The ///Man

Makes sense why I can never fit them in standard holes.


----------



## quality_sound

gregerst22 said:


> The Max15 is an oversized 15, you might call it a 16" sub. Then factor in 28.6 mm linear xmax and its pushing twice the output of a typical 15 like a JBL GTO.





BuickGN said:


> I haven't seen any 15s with 935cm^2 of cone area either wide or narrow surround. The AE IB15 is touted as having fairly high cone area at 830cm^2. There are plenty in the upper 700 range.





DonH said:


> all of the q's and max's are larger than noted. a 10 is really an 11, a 12 is really a 13, and a 15 is really a 16 lol


No ****? Well damn, ya learn something new every day. I'd add that info to the site somewhere and ABSOLUTELY change the names. I promise you sales would go up and more people would use them.


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## quality_sound

Golden Ear said:


> That's makes sense since I was having trouble getting low end extension with the 12 in a 1 cubic foot enclosure. It should probably really be in a 1.35 or 1.4 sealed enclosure to get them lows.


That's one thing I preferred about the v2s. An IDQ12 in 1CF was bliss. I'd buy that exact same sub again tomorrow if it was available. Smaller enclosure, great sound, not as expensive as the new ones and more output than I've ever needed.


----------



## DonH

quality_sound said:


> No ****? Well damn, ya learn something new every day. I'd add that info to the site somewhere and ABSOLUTELY change the names. I promise you sales would go up and more people would use them.


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## Primalgeek

I'm getting close to having to make a decision for this years build. Would some of you that have actually been using the 15 v4 be willing to give me a call to discuss your thoughts? I'm old and chatting on the phone is easier than typing  You can PM me for my number. 

We (my buddy who is helping with the build and I) are thinking two of these in a ported box in a Magnum, so there should be plenty of room. My goals for SPL are to reach a 150 while still having a good SQ sound.

Currently I'm running a DD9518 that does 145 and yet still sounds good for SQ. I'm hoping that the increased cone area and hopefully extra power will help with this goal.

Thanks for your help
Charles


----------



## tyroneshoes

Yes I agree regarding the sound of IDQ v1/2 vs the v3/4. In my experience, the v2 was near perfect and I disliked the v3 and v4 (same thing). 

The tweeters in the comp set look cheap and are average. The passive crossover deign on the XS is among the worst I ever seen on a high end and expensive set with no lowpass..These drivers beam, esp the 6x9 in dodge/jeep locations which they were marketed to. Unacceptable to me. The xs69 was a decent driver though. I have had better however.

So to me, The IDQ v2 and from what I hear the current Id max may be the only thing that was fantastic that ID made (no exp with horns)

I will always hold onto my NOS 12" idq v2 d2

When I got my IDQv4 10 sealed in .75, I was very unimpressed. Now no other sub fits in the 9.5" cutout

The 12" Idqv2 in 1.3 @ 28 hz was was of my fav sub setups of all time.


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## wanderer1

Really interested in sealed back 10. could you pm the T/S to me and xmax please. Price would be nice too. Are these for mid bass or sub use? Thanks


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## seafish

tyroneshoes said:


> Yes I agree regarding the sound of IDQ v1/2 vs the v3/4. In my experience, the v2 was near perfect and I disliked the v3 and v4 (same thing).
> 
> 
> 
> I will always hold onto my NOS 12" idq v2 d2
> 
> When I got my IDQv4 10 sealed in .75, I was very unimpressed. Now no other sub fits in the 9.5" cutout
> 
> The 12" Idqv2 in 1.3 @ 28 hz was was of my fav sub setups of all time.


I have NOT listened to the ID v3/v4 subs, but I DID just slip an IDQ10v2 that I bought used from a member here into the .63 ft3 JL stealthbox that I have in my truck, and the difference in sound quality between the JL 10w3v3 and the much older IDQ10v2 is sipmly STUNNING!!!

Actaully, there is NO comparison…the IDQ10v2 is clean and precise while the 103w3v3 is boomy and relatively muddy, with no tuning changes in between.


----------



## mikechec9

seafish said:


> I have NOT listened to the ID v3/v4 subs, but I DID just slip an IDQ10v2 that I bought used from a member here into the .63 ft3 JL stealthbox that I have in my truck, and the difference in sound quality between the JL 10w3v3 and the much older IDQ10v2 is sipmly STUNNING!!!
> 
> Actaully, there is NO comparison…the IDQ10v2 is clean and precise while the 103w3v3 is boomy and relatively muddy, with no tuning changes in between.


How is the relative output?


----------



## seafish

mikechec9 said:


> How is the relative output?


Well the JL is rated at 85dB and the IDQ10v2 at 87 dB.
In fact, the IDQ10v2 is a DVC 4ohm sub that I wired at 2ohms, so between that and the increased sensitivity, I AM getting more output from the IDQ sub then from the JL sub. BUT much MORE importantly to me, the output is tight and clean sounding!!


----------



## BuickGN

Any new updates on the v4s? The Max 15 specifically?

I searched for reviews online since it's been a long time and haven't seen a single new once since I checked last year. Did these things stop selling?

I'm still in love with mine. Running 800w each IB and they're just great at anything you throw at them. I'm getting that itch called boredom though, and thinking about a pair of AE AV15s. I'm trying not to blow money pointlessly since I'm so happy with the Maxes still. I like having a sub that's basically bottomless for IB use. 

I never though a standard "low tech" motor could compete with the IB15s I ran for a few years but now that I've had the Max 15s for a while there's absolutely no contest. Maybe it's a good combination of parts and not one "technology" by itself that makes them so good. I'm still surprised at how detailed and articulate the 15 is when looking at it's seemingly heavy cone. I believe WinISD had it at around 300g for the mms which isn't that bad for a 16" sub but twice as heavy (but with more motor strength) than the IB15.

The thing that still bothers me is I do not believe the specs at all. The 4 ohm version has far less motor strength than the 2 ohm and Qts is a little higher too. Does this sound right? I thought the lower resistance version of the same sub usually had less motor strength but in the end it all equaled out. It just bothers me because I don't believe the modeling to be accurate. According to the model, you can't hit xmax in free air at it's 1200w thermal rating at 20hz but in practice 800w IB gets them moving to what's got to be close to xmax.

It seems like a lot of really good posts were deleted that I wish I could read again.

Oh, about the 3 month old post above mine, it sounds like the JLs are in too small of an enclosure. They will sound crisp and quick, not even close to boomy when in a large enough enclosure but they need more that what JL specs.


----------



## brumledb

I am close to pulling the trigger on 2-IDQ 8's DVC4. Going to run them IB on a 2012 Camry rear deck. Either these or 2-8w7's but the IDQ's are so much cheaper than the 8w7's and seem to get comparable reviews to the 8w7. I am a bit skeptical though. I had a 10w7 back in 2002 ran on a PG Tantrum 500.2 and it was beast. Best sub I ever owned. 

Buick, what is your opinion on the 8IDQ vs 8w7? I know "there's no replacement for displacement" in IB so is the 8w7's extra 0.01 cuft of displacement from its extra 5 mm of xmax worth the additional cost? Also, the Qts of the IDQ is 0.43 vs 0.61 for the w7. I have read in several of your posts that you actually like a lower Qts sub in IB format so I am guessing that this Qts difference is a moot point.


----------



## rton20s

Brandon, I ran the two drivers through WinISD. You can see the results in the attached image. For your reference, these were modeled in a 15.4 cf enclosure (approximate trunk volume of your Camry trunk) with power being provided by your Tantrum 500.2. The JLs are getting 375w while the IDs are getting 500w due to voice coil configuration. 

Both sets of drivers stay within Xmax with the provided power with the JL creeping just past 19mm down at 20 Hz. If you were to add a second order subsonic filter at 20 Hz, the W7s would peak at about 15mm Xmax and the IDQs at 10mm Xmax with your available power.


----------



## legend94

brumledb said:


> I am close to pulling the trigger on 2-IDQ 8's DVC4. Going to run them IB on a 2012 Camry rear deck. Either these or 2-8w7's but the IDQ's are so much cheaper than the 8w7's and seem to get comparable reviews to the 8w7. I am a bit skeptical though. I had a 10w7 back in 2002 ran on a PG Tantrum 500.2 and it was beast. Best sub I ever owned.
> 
> Buick, what is your opinion on the 8IDQ vs 8w7? I know "there's no replacement for displacement" in IB so is the 8w7's extra 0.01 cuft of displacement from its extra 5 mm of xmax worth the additional cost? Also, the Qts of the IDQ is 0.43 vs 0.61 for the w7. I have read in several of your posts that you actually like a lower Qts sub in IB format so I am guessing that this Qts difference is a moot point.



If you are going with ID please look into the id 8 inch subs. I think sonic has them for 89 each right now! I cant speak with using them in an ib configuration but I really like the id series v3.


----------



## rton20s

Brandon, if you want me to model some other drivers, just let me know. I will say this...

After a quick model of Legend94's recommendation I took a look at one other "value priced" driver, the Infinity Reference 860W. If you can incorporate a subsonic filter as I mentioned previously, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in output between the ID8, IDQ8 and 860W. However, the IDQs and References could use more power than what you have available from the PG whereas the ID8s will only need 150w to reach Xmax.


----------



## BuickGN

It really looks like the W7 is the runaway favorite in output and without using too much power. I know they will sound good and with so much additional output, it would be a no brainer for me.


----------



## legend94

rton20s said:


> Brandon, if you want me to model some other drivers, just let me know. I will say this...
> 
> After a quick model of Legend94's recommendation I took a look at one other "value priced" driver, the Infinity Reference 860W. If you can incorporate a subsonic filter as I mentioned previously, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in output between the ID8, IDQ8 and 860W. However, the IDQs and References could use more power than what you have available from the PG whereas the ID8s will only need 150w to reach Xmax.


So you are saying the ID is the winner?  I was just suggesting it based on price and performance.

Probably not the thread for this but I would like someone to model a sub for me.


----------



## rton20s

BuickGN said:


> It really looks like the W7 is the runaway favorite in output and without using too much power. I know they will sound good and with so much additional output, it would be a no brainer for me.


Without modeling every single 8" option out there, I would have to agree. If you have it within your budget, the 8W7AE seems like a great choice. And if you move to a larger amp there is still a little left in them for additional output (600w = ~2 dB gain). 



legend94 said:


> So you are saying the ID is the winner?  I was just suggesting it based on price and performance.
> 
> Probably not the thread for this but I would like someone to model a sub for me.


I would probably go even cheaper with the Infinity to save more money. 

If you start a new thread for what you need modeled, just shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do. Probably no need to clutter up this thread more than I already have.


----------



## low4ever

I have had my mind made up that i was going to run a single idmax15 in an IB setup in my cadillac fleetwood. The problem is it looks as I'm not going to be able to. As big as my trunk is there is nowhere in the trunk to run it 16 inches. The only place is in the middle of my trunk. Which is not going to happen. So question is it possible for me to do it at an angle? I don't think its an ideal place to run it, but i am new to IB so I'm not sure, just going by what i have seen. Thanks in advance. Oh here are some pictures i took. The cut is the same size as an IDMax15


----------



## tyroneshoes

Consider audiomobile elite 8"s 

They are designed to be IB compatible


----------



## BuickGN

low4ever said:


> I have had my mind made up that i was going to run a single idmax15 in an IB setup in my cadillac fleetwood. The problem is it looks as I'm not going to be able to. As big as my trunk is there is nowhere in the trunk to run it 16 inches. The only place is in the middle of my trunk. Which is not going to happen. So question is it possible for me to do it at an angle? I don't think its an ideal place to run it, but i am new to IB so I'm not sure, just going by what i have seen. Thanks in advance. Oh here are some pictures i took. The cut is the same size as an IDMax15


Angling them is perfectly fine. Like so many cars of that era, I would have to angle a 15 to fit my GN but it would fit without angling in my Acura. They're actually slightly angled in the TL just to make the fit a little easier. 

I still think these are one of the ultimate IB subs, I don't think I would want one in a sealed box, I don't like the specs for sealed.


----------



## BuickGN

tyroneshoes said:


> Consider audiomobile elite 8"s
> 
> They are designed to be IB compatible


An 8" that has 8x less displacement than the 15" sub he was thinking about using? That's a big jump lol. 

Every sub designed for a sealed box is completely IB compatible. I actually prefer those made for small sealed boxes more, usually. I don't mean this toward you, just in general.


----------



## legend94

BuickGN said:


> An 8" that has 8x less displacement than the 15" sub he was thinking about using? That's a big jump lol.
> 
> Every sub designed for a sealed box is completely IB compatible. I actually prefer those made for small sealed boxes more, usually. I don't mean this toward you, just in general.


Then you need to try the diyma12 ib!


----------



## BuickGN

Seriously! I'm on this low Qts/Qtc kick right now and that would fit well. You just have to send me one of yours to try out. 

I think I'm going to make my new car the test car for testing different subs IB. Without fail I've preferred the low Q systems, some of them below .4. In my mind, the lid has been blown off of the .707 Qtc goal for sound quality. I've never found one spec that makes such a difference in sound quality to me and now I know why I've been so drawn to IB. Those AE AV 15s are looking awfully nice with their .26 Qts which would be about .38 in the trunk. It seems like just a year or two ago everyone was saying to use a sub with a .7 Qts in an IB application. Now I wouldn't consider it, at least not for a strictly sound quality sub. There I go getting carried away. I'm sure this will be disputed badly lol. This is just my opinion before anyone attacks me.


----------



## low4ever

@BuickGN if I angle what should I do with the empty space between the baffle and back seat.


----------



## quality_sound

BuickGN said:


> An 8" that has 8x less displacement than the 15" sub he was thinking about using? That's a big jump lol.
> 
> *Every sub designed for a sealed box is completely IB compatible*. I actually prefer those made for small sealed boxes more, usually. I don't mean this toward you, just in general.


Are you sure about that? IME, subs designed for vented enclosures work better in IB since subs meant for sealed enclosures, small sealed enclosures specifically, don't have enough mechanical damping at low frequencies. The W7 is a bit of an anomoly but it doesn't particularly like small enclosures so it's not too much of an outlier. The WGTi is a perfect example. The old Kicker Free-Airs are as well. The name will throw it off, but they're really just subs meant for large vented enclosures with a cool marketing name. They were outstanding though.


----------



## BuickGN

quality_sound said:


> Are you sure about that? IME, subs designed for vented enclosures work better in IB since subs meant for sealed enclosures, small sealed enclosures specifically, don't have enough mechanical damping at low frequencies. The W7 is a bit of an anomoly but it doesn't particularly like small enclosures so it's not too much of an outlier. The WGTi is a perfect example. The old Kicker Free-Airs are as well. The name will throw it off, but they're really just subs meant for large vented enclosures with a cool marketing name. They were outstanding though.


"Every" sub was taking it a bit far lol. But so far I've really enjoyed the subs with lower Qts made for smaller boxes in IB. And I agree, the W7, no matter what JL says is not a small box sub. Their sealed box specs don't do the sub justice. 

My line of reasoning is the motor does the vast majority of the damping or moving mass control above resonance to the point that the mechanical damping almost doesn't matter. Since IB gives better damping than a small sealed box, if the sub has enough damping for a small sealed box, it will have even more damping (lower qtc) in an IB setup. Were you talking about Qms specifically?


----------



## quality_sound

BuickGN said:


> "Every" sub was taking it a bit far lol. But so far I've really enjoyed the subs with lower Qts made for smaller boxes in IB. And I agree, the W7, no matter what JL says is not a small box sub. Their sealed box specs don't do the sub justice.
> 
> My line of reasoning is the motor does the vast majority of the damping or moving mass control above resonance to the point that the mechanical damping almost doesn't matter. Since IB gives better damping than a small sealed box, if the sub has enough damping for a small sealed box, it will have even more damping (lower qtc) in an IB setup. Were you talking about Qms specifically?


I think JL's sealed enclosure recommendations for every sub they make are wrong by about 20%. 

I see what you're saying. If the sub has a very low Fs, like most small box subs do, then the motor would be more important than the suspension. Interesting idea. I'd love to see a no-kidding test to see how the theory pans out. 

Do you not think the subs are too dry with a Qts that low? Some of my all-time favorite subs (Pioneer TS-W12PRS and the KEF S-300) were borderline too dry. I'm trying to find the specs (Pioneer pulled the manual from the site) but I remember the Q being very, very low.

edit: I was talking about the suspension compliance specifically, but didn't think about the motor being more important above resonance.


----------



## legend94

One thing I found interesting was something Andy with audio from was saying about some manufacturers relying too much on treating the spider I believe instead of having a great motor. I need to find that....


----------



## rton20s

quality_sound said:


> The old Kicker Free-Airs are as well. The name will throw it off, but they're really just subs meant for large vented enclosures with a cool marketing name. They were outstanding though.


My first "system" was a pair of Kicker "Free Air" 8s in the rear deck of my '68 Cougar powered by a Kicker 2 channel amp and run off of a Kenwood shaft style cassette player circa 1996. I knew nothing about anything audio-wise back then, but I loved that "system." 



quality_sound said:


> Do you not think the subs are too dry with a Qts that low? Some of my all-time favorite subs (Pioneer TS-W12PRS and the KEF S-300) were borderline too dry. I'm trying to find the specs (Pioneer pulled the manual from the site) but I remember the Q being very, very low.


According to the Pioneer EU site:

TS-W12PRS
Maximum output power	1.200 Watt
Nominal output power	300 Watt
Frequency response	15 - 2.000 Hz
Lowest resonance frequency (Hz)	24 Hz
Sensitivity (1W/1m)	92 dB
Woofer size (cm)	30 cm
Woofer material	Aramid Fibre Composite cone woofer
Dual 4Ω voice coils: 2 or 8Ω	Yes
Terminals	Gold-plated
Recommended sealed enclosure (Litres)	28
Thiele/Small Parameters	TS-W12PRS
Nom. Dia.(In)	12
Qts	0,39
Qms	9,000
Qes	0,41
Fs [Hz] 24
Vas [l]	93
Vas [ft3]	0,3
Sd [m2]	0,0456
Revc [Ω]	3,6
Levc [mH] (2000Hz)	1.61 (8Ω)
0.40 (2Ω)
Zmax [Ω]	175 (8Ω)
43.8 (2Ω)
BI [Tm]	19,46
Rms[Ns/m]	2,3
Mms [g]	135
Cms [m/N]	0,000315
Hag [mm]	12
Hag [In]	0,47
Hvc [mm] 39,5
Hvc [In] 1,56
R.M.S.Power [W]	300
M.M.P. [W]	1200
Recom. Enclosure [l] 28
Recom. Enclosure [ft3]	1,0


----------



## quality_sound

.39, a bit higher than I though but not bad at all. Now I REALLY want to use them again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BuickGN

quality_sound said:


> I think JL's sealed enclosure recommendations for every sub they make are wrong by about 20%.
> 
> I see what you're saying. If the sub has a very low Fs, like most small box subs do, then the motor would be more important than the suspension. Interesting idea. I'd love to see a no-kidding test to see how the theory pans out.
> 
> Do you not think the subs are too dry with a Qts that low? Some of my all-time favorite subs (Pioneer TS-W12PRS and the KEF S-300) were borderline too dry. I'm trying to find the specs (Pioneer pulled the manual from the site) but I remember the Q being very, very low.
> 
> edit: I was talking about the suspension compliance specifically, but didn't think about the motor being more important above resonance.


 Sometimes, but then when I go higher Qtc I immediately want it lower again.

Last night I was listening to some drum heavy beats with the car setup the way I drive it every day (trunk closed, windows up). They sounded plenty "quick" like they were pretty true to the source but maybe just a little bit of heaviness to the beats that might not be there in the recording.

I opened the trunk all the way and started listening again with the windows up and sure enough, the drum beats immediately sounded completely realistic. Quicker, with no overhang. I could picture exactly how the drummer was hitting the drums. It just sounded like real life. Once you hear it there's no doubt that you found the correct sound. The question is now, what do I do about it?

So I went and modeled the subs in WinISD. One pair in 16 cubes and one in 100 cubes. In 16 cubes I got a 37hz Fsc and .61 Qtc. In 100 cubes I got .52 Qts and 32hz Fsc (I think). The difference is definitely audible. The lower Qtc just sounds all around better and more natural. I lost output in some areas but gained it on the low end with the lower Qtc and it sounded (I didn't measure) flatter. For what it's worth, the AE IB15s modeled out to a .7Qtc and near 40hz Fsc. Maybe that's why I was always trying to change the sound. I had luck stuffing two king sized pillows in the trunk, maybe it had the same effect as polyfill in a sealed box. This is probably why I was so surprised to realize the ID Max15 actually sounded a little quicker and tighter than the IB15 which was very surprising. That was the last thing I was expecting. 

It seems like somewhere around .5Qtc sounds really good to my ears but unfortunately with my current setup I can't go lower than .51 unless I go AP and I wouldn't have the knowledge or skills to get the Qtc lower than Qts. 

I've made up my mind that the next subs I buy will be the AE AV15s. Qts is somewhere around .26 and I think they modeled around .4 in my car with a 20hz Fsc. They're like an SBP15 but better in every way.

The other variable here is the specs given by Image Dynamics. I don't trust them one bit. WinISD doesn't accept them as is. They have the dual 2 ohm version with a Bl of around 18 and the dual 4 ohm around 11. When I plug the numbers into WinISD it calculates Bl at 15 for the 4ohm which sounds more like it. Oh, and Mms is 320g calculated since people were asking but ID won't publish it.

I began looking at lots of subs and modeling them in their recommended enclosure size and then in one that gave a .707. Most subs out there model to around .9 Qtc. Some of the JLs were above 1 which is no wonder people complain about them being boomy. I was worried about the relatively high (or so I thought) Fsc of 37hz of my setup but most subs in the recommended boxes were above 55hz Fsc. Even in their .707 alignment most were around 50hz Fsc so I guess mine is ok. What's surprising is that everyone regularly plays their subs below resonance. I've heard it so many times to not play below resonance but everyone does it so it makes me question a lot of things. I'm assuming that once in a box, system resonance is important and free air resonance is not important.


----------



## brumledb

rton20s said:


> Brandon, I ran the two drivers through WinISD. You can see the results in the attached image. For your reference, these were modeled in a 15.4 cf enclosure (approximate trunk volume of your Camry trunk) with power being provided by your Tantrum 500.2. The JLs are getting 375w while the IDs are getting 500w due to voice coil configuration.
> 
> Both sets of drivers stay within Xmax with the provided power with the JL creeping just past 19mm down at 20 Hz. If you were to add a second order subsonic filter at 20 Hz, the W7s would peak at about 15mm Xmax and the IDQs at 10mm Xmax with your available power.



Been meaning to tell you thanks for doing that, Rton.

I have never done IB or ran 8's so I think I will just try to pick up a pair for relatively cheap and see how I like it. I may even try doing some A/B comparisons between different 8" subs if I can find them for the right price.

I have modeled 8 different 8" subs and excluding the 8w7 there seeems to be a trade-off between SPL and being able play lower. The ID8/Arc8 seem to have most SPL but look like they should be crossed around 35 hz due to cone excursion while the IDQ looks like it could be crossed at 20 hz or almost 20 hz but has less SPL at all frequencies. The other main difference seems to be in the Qtc. 

What is supposed to be the difference between the ID and IDQ line? (From an auditory not technical perspective)


8 Inch Speaker Modeling by brumledb | Photobucket


----------



## tyroneshoes

brumledb said:


> Been meaning to tell you thanks for doing that, Rton.
> 
> I have never done IB or ran 8's so I think I will just try to pick up a pair for relatively cheap and see how I like it. I may even try doing some A/B comparisons between different 8" subs if I can find them for the right price.
> 
> I have modeled 8 different 8" subs and excluding the 8w7 there seeems to be a trade-off between SPL and being able play lower. The ID8/Arc8 seem to have most SPL but look like they should be crossed around 35 hz due to cone excursion while the IDQ looks like it could be crossed at 20 hz or almost 20 hz but has less SPL at all frequencies. The other main difference seems to be in the Qtc.
> 
> What is supposed to be the difference between the ID and IDQ line? (From an auditory not technical perspective)
> 
> 
> 8 Inch Speaker Modeling by brumledb | Photobucket


Ibe been through a lot of 8" subs but in the opposite position. .4 sealed. The low end on the tc epic was very impressive, however, I dont think they would work in an IB config. (but Im not really experienced in ib). The GZ Hydrogen provided the best all around sound, but lost a little output and low endcompared to the epic.

Personally, id try the two audiomobile elites. I have heard a single 10 freeair and it had nice output and sounded excellent. 2 8s would be pretty impressive. And while some doent think its important, the 8s and 10s are made for an ib config, the 12 is not. 

I believe the arc and id are the same sub pretty much with no changes except cosmetic. both overall great performing 8's. Work in many different configs. I do know they really dont like a lot of power so I ca imagine IB would make that issue worse.


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## Kamran

Hi
I need to buy a subwoofer
I need an accurate and deep and smooth bass for sq system with enough energy to vibrate my seats!
My car is an peugeot 405 glx an old car!! The trunk volume is about 470 litre!
My friends tell me to buy idq10 in a seal box.
Is it suitable for me?
Thnks!


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## Majik

Kamran said:


> My friends tell me to buy idq10 in a seal box.
> Is it suitable for me?


IDQs are fantastic sounding subs. If you have the space, I would choose the IDQ 12 for the added output. They sound amazing and yes, they will "vibrate your seats".


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## Kamran

Can you help me to decide between alpine swr 1243/12d4 and rockford p3d4 12 and idq v.4 12
My old sub was alpine sws 1223d that stolen!
It was so good with deep base and good accuracy but low volume in its sound.
Thnks


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## PPI_GUY

Majik said:


> IDQs are fantastic sounding subs. If you have the space, I would choose the IDQ 12 for the added output. They sound amazing and yes, they will "vibrate your seats".


Couldn't agree more. In fact I love my old school 15" IDQ V1 svc so much I contacted Image Dynamics asking if/when they were going to start offering an updated version of that driver. Here is the response I received...

_Unfortunately there is no plans for that in the works at this time. The market has changed quite a bit and you have literally been the 2nd person to ask for this in the last couple of years.. 

We certainly appreciate your loyalty and thanks for using ID ! 

Best Regards,

Erik Harbour
Sales & Marketing Director 
Image Dynamics USA, Inc.
2133 S. Green Privado
Ontario Ca. 91761
(909) 930-1377 Office
(866) 933-1414 Toll Free
(866) 239-4399 Fax
_

...so, no new 15's on the drawing board or even being discussed. I find it hard to believe that I was only the 2nd person in a couple of years to ask for an updated 15 too. If anyone else feels like I do and would like to see a new 15" IDQ sub, please contact ID and let them know.


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## rton20s

PPI_GUY said:


> Couldn't agree more. In fact I love my old school 15" IDQ V1 svc so much I contacted Image Dynamics asking if/when they were going to start offering an updated version of that driver. Here is the response I received...
> 
> _Unfortunately there is no plans for that in the works at this time. The market has changed quite a bit and you have literally been the 2nd person to ask for this in the last couple of years..
> 
> We certainly appreciate your loyalty and thanks for using ID !
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Erik Harbour
> Sales & Marketing Director
> Image Dynamics USA, Inc.
> 2133 S. Green Privado
> Ontario Ca. 91761
> (909) 930-1377 Office
> (866) 933-1414 Toll Free
> (866) 239-4399 Fax
> _
> 
> ...so, no new 15's on the drawing board or even being discussed. I find it hard to believe that I was only the 2nd person in a couple of years to ask for an updated 15 too. If anyone else feels like I do and would like to see a new 15" IDQ sub, please contact ID and let them know.


While you might not be able to get ID to bring back the V1 IDQ, have you considered searching for a driver with similar specs? You can still find the old spec sheets if you know where to dig.


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## PPI_GUY

rton20s said:


> While you might not be able to get ID to bring back the V1 IDQ, have you considered searching for a driver with similar specs? You can still find the old spec sheets if you know where to dig.


Actually, I'd prefer a V4 edition of the IDQ15 with modern materials and technology. As I stated the V1 is very good but, I'm sure a newer version could be even better. 
I don't have the IDQ15V1 spec sheet but, dug up a V2 which I assume would be very close. If you have the V1 sheet, I'd appreciate a digital copy. :thumbsup:


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## rton20s

PPI_GUY said:


> Actually, I'd prefer a V4 edition of the IDQ15 with modern materials and technology. As I stated the V1 is very good but, I'm sure a newer version could be even better.
> I don't have the IDQ15V1 spec sheet but, dug up a V2 which I assume would be very close. If you have the V1 sheet, I'd appreciate a digital copy. :thumbsup:


https://web.archive.org/web/20011104215614/http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/tech/data_sheet_idq15.html

Pretty much all of the old stuff is still around if you use archive.org. And some of the Dayton drivers line up pretty well with what I am seeing on the IDQ15 spec sheet. For instance, the DCS385-4 is very similar.


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## PPI_GUY

rton20s said:


> https://web.archive.org/web/20011104215614/http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/tech/data_sheet_idq15.html
> 
> Pretty much all of the old stuff is still around if you use archive.org. And some of the Dayton drivers line up pretty well with what I am seeing on the IDQ15 spec sheet. For instance, the DCS385-4 is very similar.


Thanks for that! The one listed is a V2 but, I would think the specs would be very close to a V1. And I'll have to take a closer look at the Dayton.


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## rton20s

PPI_GUY said:


> Thanks for that! The one listed is a V2 but, I would think the specs would be very close to a V1. And I'll have to take a closer look at the Dayton.


Didn't realize that was the V2. This is the oldest info I could find online.

https://web.archive.org/web/19980205100152/http://imagedynamicsusa.com/idq8.htm#specs


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## quality_sound

The v2s were EASILY my favorite ID subs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frijoles24

rton20s said:


> Didn't realize that was the V2. This is the oldest info I could find online.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/19980205100152/http://imagedynamicsusa.com/idq8.htm#specs


this needs to be saved somewhere. i was looking for the data sheet couple months back. idq8 idq10 idq12 idq v2 specs specifications manual

now hopefully when somebody googles for the sheet, theyll come across this dudes post


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## Malazan

Does anyone know if the IDQ12D2 v4 xmax is one way or P-P, it gives 28mm as peak excursion


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## sq2k1

The 28mm excursion is peak.... so 14mm one way and 14mm the other.


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## 68962

The IDMAX15 is ****in retarded. I'm serious the thing pounds in the low range(box is @25hz) like nothing I've ever heard outside of 18's.. Mine is on 1500wrms and I am astounded, still after 6 months, every time I hear a new song with awesome lows. Rae Sremmurd's "Set the Roof" is a great example. While I don't care much about the lyrics and style of rap the track possesses the low end production is phenomenal. The two lower 808 style kick/bass combos, specifically the second hit, interact with the synth bass channel on the track and the shock wave through my car flutters with perfect clean interlacing oscillations. I can barely handle how awesome this thing is.


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## sq2k1

Onespirit, what type of enclosure are you running it in?


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## ubtappin

I am pretty planning a build with the IDMAX15. Eager to see what it will sound like.


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## Majik

OneSpiritBrain said:


> The IDMAX15 is ****in retarded...
> 
> ...I can barely handle how awesome this thing is.


I agree. Favorite subs I've ever owned.


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## Majik

sq2k1 said:


> Onespirit, what type of enclosure are you running it in?


He posted a nice little review earlier this year. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...6-image-dynamic-idmax15-listening-review.html


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## DonH

The MAX 15 is insane. its really a 16 BTW  

I hated building them because of how heavy they are haha! non the less, great hand-built sub.


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## lucas569

i can vouch that sub hits hard. pretty damn clean too. my taste leans more for IDQ though


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## Knobby Digital

Can someone weigh their IDMax 15"?

I've seen weights posted, but for some reason they're often off on subwoofers.


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## DonH

Knobby Digital said:


> Can someone weigh their IDMax 15"?
> 
> I've seen weights posted, but for some reason they're often off on subwoofers.


its around 38 pounds... atleast they felt that way in the morning. by the end of they day of building them they weighed around 200 pounds haha!


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## Slowfkncar

I know its an old thread but for the sake of saving people from buying sq oriented items that are supposed to be "just as loud" as spl items, id figure i could at least drop something as a 13 year long mecp/a installer.

I have owned,rebuilt & listened to 95% of the woofers mentioned in this thread and it's such a shame that you guys compare something like the idmax to an RE XXX,W7,Type X,HDC3 ect. All 4 of those woofers listed will take alot more raw power than an IDMAX resulting in more SPL. 545cm2,1000w & 19.5mm one way you are NOT going to outplay a properly powered/enclosed xxx,type X,sundown zv3 ect. Ive competed with 4 FI Q's for 3 years and have swapped them out with my v4 max's anytime i need to rebuild my q's. I've also done it with type X's and while the max's have the best quality and roll-off, it lacks in output when compared to woofers capable of taking more power such as most woofers listed in this thread.

Why? 

The IDMAX 12" V4 actually uses a 2 1/8" coil OD & 2 1/16" coil winding, they are efficient which makes them loud on low power but output will fall around 1000w clamped compared to 3" coil woofers. 

Some of you are nuts thinking an idmax can compete with single 12" 450oz SPL woofers on 4kw, there is a very good reason why those woofers need such a huge port to begin with. 

An IDMAX has excellent SQ while retaining good output, a sundown ZV3 has excellent output while retaining good SQ. The difference here is incredibly significant to the point where you cant say this guys 5000w system didnt sound like my 1000w system so the products must be rubbish.


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## minbari

I would say first, who cares. 

But if you have a woofer that is massively more effecient it will hang with something that takes more power but isnt as effiecient. To a point. If the max is 90db (just makeing up number to make a point) and the high power spl sub is 84db, then a 1000watt max and the 4000watt spl will be the same in the same style enclosure. (Simple physics) and power compression will effect a 3" coil at that kinda power as much or more as a 2 1/8" coil at 1000watts.
Ofcourse it doesn't count if you put the max in an sq enclosure and the spl in a 55hz tuned burp box.

All that said, people don't buy an sq sub to go compete in spl competitions. I think the point of this thread, with very little exception, is that the max has decent sq and will get loud too.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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