# USD or ID, which do you prefer and why?



## veleno (Sep 16, 2006)

Just wondering which HLCD you guys prefer and why. I understand that ID is cheaper but does the sound of the USD justify the price over the ID?


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## fredswain (Jan 19, 2011)

I have a set of USD's, and both min and full sized versions of the ID horns. They each do things differently than the others, including each of the ID styles. I have heard cars sound both good and bad with each type. None of the designs is perfect by any means and I like each one for different reasons. I would probably have to say my favorites are the large body ID's although they are probably the hardest to fit into many different vehicles. They may work in yours though. The mini's are probably my least personal favorite as they cross fire too hard for me. My issue with them isn't one of sound quality. I prefer the large bodies or the USD's over them. The cross fire pattern just isn't as hard with the other 2. I find that it narrows the soundstage on the close side quite a bit. When I had the mini's in an older car of mine, the imaging was fantastic but the stage width was too narrow on the side I was sitting on. The USD's horns have their own issues of course but I like them because they an play lower than the ID mini's and don't cross fire as strong. I will gladly sacrifice a little bit of center image focus in order to keep a wider stage. 

Keep in mind that there isn't just one horn model from each manufacturer. I believe ID still offers 3 motor choices in 2 body styles and USD has at least 3 motor options so prices between the 2 overlap. I wouldn't say any one brand is more expensive than the next without quantifying which model between each is being compared. 

Although I have had my USD horns for about 15 years, since horns in cars generally aren't that popular anymore, I'd probably recommend you stick to ID. They definitely have some very good products and the support is strong for them. If you can get the large bodies in your vehicle, that would be my first choice. My current vehicle still has it's stock system in it but I have held up all 3 of my horns to see which ones work best and the mini's may work out best from a size perspective but I may use the large bodies if I can. For me, if a large body ID horn were just scaled down to mini size, that would be the perfect horn for me. I'll probably have to build it myself though is that is ever to become a reality. I just don't want to fire a horn at a large center console.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

Ive heard both and i'm kind of partcile to the USD, Like Fred said they both have their pos nad negs I won the USD BC Roto Mounts so as far as installing them the ability to turnthe driverto a position that helps with mounting is a plus to me. and price reallyto me depends on where you're looking and when its all about timing igot mines at a great price of 150 they're going for way more than that even to this day. Hey Fred I'm looking for a set of xovers for these model Horns u got a extra set laying around?


Mike


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## fredswain (Jan 19, 2011)

I believe USD one had a crossover for use with both the BC and the D2 series horns. The D2 used the Motorola piezo drivers so that crossover won't work for anything other than those drivers as you don't cross over a piezo. It was just the crossover for the mid and an attenuation for the driver. Those crossovers had a pink label on them. The BC actually were a crossover but I think their label was yellow. I've got the pink ones so if you have a BC horn, it's not going to work for you.

The better passive crossover I have is actually a modified ID piece. I'm not sure if they still offer it but at one time they had a component set based on the CD-1E that used a passive crossover like the D2 USD set. This too used the same piezo driver but their crossover components are much better. Mine are modified to work with the CD-1Pro motors so they have a separate high pass filter built into them. These sound fantastic and make the USD crossover sound like junk by comparison. I don't even know what the crossover point is anymore. I just know that my car sounded better with these passives than it ever did with any other combo. Back when I had horns (mini's) in the top of the dash and mids in the floor, these were what I was using.

Incidentally, if anyone is still using the piezo drivers, a quick easy way to drastically improve their sound quality is to take them apart and drill a 5/8" hole straight down the middle of the phase plug. This gets rid of the point but improves the sound quality to something that is actually not too bad to listen to.


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## veritasz34 (Jul 25, 2011)

I always liked and used the Veritas horns..Although the illusions horn sparked my interest but never pulled the trigger..


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## NewOldGuy (Oct 26, 2008)

veritasz34.....are you still running the veritas?....wound you mind giving a "pros & cons" review?


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## veritasz34 (Jul 25, 2011)

No I'm not running them but I can comment on what I remember from my experience. I was using the aluminum body horn. Which was heavy and kind of a challenge to mount. I had it coupled to a modified radian driver. Ferrofluid was added to help smooth it out. The veritas horns use a tapered midsection in the middle of the mouth. This to me seemed to take the "throaty" sound out of this horn that I felt was present in some others. ID to me had alot of this if not tuned properly and the illusions horn was even worse. The hardest thing for me to achieve with them was width. Stage hight was pretty good consistantly but stage width always seemed to score a little lower than I would have liked. Also this horn had very little resonance. The ID and illusion horns I heard seem to have a "ringing" to them that I felt these didn't have. Also the resin/plastic veritas horns had this particular sound too but not as pronounced to the other two horns mentioned. All in all I loved the dynamics of horns but the car it was in was designed for IASCA and it didn't score was well as conventional drivers. Now the usd horns had alot of these sounds BUT most people running them used foam wedges to compensate for some of the annomilies mentioned. To me either a USD sounde pretty darn good or horrible and this depended on the owners filtering and use of in throat (What I call It) equalization.
All in all I really liked these horns. The only ones I like better was Richard Clarks and Mark Eldridges horns..Marks BTW wanted to take your head off with dynamics..Kinda off topic but the last install in Mark Eldridges 4 runner was the closest representation of a quality home system in a car that I have heard to date..
Me..I highly recommend these..Shame you still can't get them..Hope this helps some..


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## NewOldGuy (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks....i'm thinking of trying a pair of veritas...i think they are still available at Superior Sound in Waynesboro, Va.....Spoke with Bill Bibb a few months ago....the aluminum (highest price set) horns are an investment so i've been trying to get as much feedback as possible.....thanks again for your help.


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## funkalicious (Oct 8, 2007)

NewOldGuy: Mind sharing a ballpark number of how much you were quoted for the aluminum horns? Have wanted some of those since they first came out and AS2000 endorsed them.


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## veritasz34 (Jul 25, 2011)

Well personally I always liked the veritas horns..I changed my system out because of sponsorship from a/d/s at the time. They aren't perfect..but if you deal with horns you know there are always trade offs but I recommend them..The only ones that were head and shoulders above these in my opinion were clarks and eldridges horns and they were both custom made for their application.. And yes please tell us what Bibb is asking for a set now days...


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## NewOldGuy (Oct 26, 2008)

When Mr. Bibb & I spoke, I believe that the top of the line horn's original price was somewhere between 900 -1000 dollars but i got the "feeling" he might be willing to negotiate some on the price....I was thinking of a package deal where i would also try the 8" Accubass drivers that he suggested for the horns. I had originally decided that I would buy the ID horns (when I was ready for a horn build) but now that Mr. Stevens is no longer with Image Dynamics I was checking other options. Mr. Bibb gave me quite a bit of his time (even after the store was closed) and shared a few stories of car audio history. I just happened to be Waynesboro that day helping a friend move when we rode past his audio shop nearing closing time. I was planning on going back later this fall to see what his best deal would be on the package.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

while Eric's not with ID he is still making horns. if your still interested give him a call and see what he says.


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## NewOldGuy (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the tip....i'll do that...hopefully he will have a new company up and running soon....


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

ya i keep naggin him about the business every day lol


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## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

I have always used ID horns and am planning an install this winter in my Challener using Ultra motors on the large bodies. I have had just about every variant that Eric had offered over the years and have always been happy. One HUGE benefit of running Eric's products is advise; I've spent countless hours on the phone with him getting my installs just right and I have no doubt that attitude will continue with his new company. 

Good luck in your search!


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## NewOldGuy (Oct 26, 2008)

Ism...didn't know if you were commenting back to me or to the OP "veleno"...but just to let all know...i took Horsemanwill's advice and contacted Eric Stevens back in August through this forum....he responded promtly and i bought both the full body horns and mini horns (horn body only)...purchased both horn bodies since i'm not sure what vehicle i will be using for my horn build....still in the process of collecting gear...Eric has told me to contact him for any intalls tips i need...nice to have access to that level of experience...


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## oliezt_sayfu (Apr 22, 2011)

is there anyone trying it with BMS 4552nd Driver ?


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## jking29 (Jan 6, 2008)

I have a set of ID mini's with BMS 4552 drivers, but do not have them installed. They won't be going in until next summer. From the audition I did on them when I got them, they sound fantastic though. Can't wait to get them in.


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## veleno (Sep 16, 2006)

Horsemanwill said:


> ya i keep naggin him about the business every day lol


So I've been out for a little while, did Eric start a new biz yet?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

veleno said:


> So I've been out for a little while, did Eric start a new biz yet?


No he hasnt yet. Things are moving slow but He already has some products in the early stages of development


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

veleno said:


> Just wondering which HLCD you guys prefer and why. I understand that ID is cheaper but does the sound of the USD justify the price over the ID?


You can build your own HLCDs pretty easily. I've built HLCDs in less time than it takes to post some of my admittedly long-winded messages. I'd say you could build a passable horn in an hour.

Everything you need to do it is available at home depot, and I've published a few posts on how to do it.

I was going to buy some USD horns in the nineties, and Eric Holdaway himself encouraged me to DIY. That really stuck with me - what a great guy to pass up a sale, simply because he could tell I had the DIY spirit and wanted to foster that.

I literally didn't know the first thing about how to build them, but they came out pretty good. Horns aren't as complex as people make them out to be. It's easier to screw up a vented sub box than it is to screw up a horn. You can get quite good results just by copying an existing horn. And if you don't like the results, read a few papers on the subject, and start experimenting.


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