# Polk MM6501 or Hertz ESK165



## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Hello guys, forgive me if I sound ignorant, but this is the first real system that I've ever put together. I have a 2006 Chevy Silverado 1500 XLT. I just installed the new Kenwood KDC-X997 HU (Kenwood - KDC-X997) I have two 10" Rockford subs in a box under the back seat, the stock 4 by 6's in the back door and the stock components (6 1/2 mid & 1" tweeter)in the front door. Im powering this with two Phoenix Gold Octane R4.0.2 amps, (Phoenix Gold Octane-R 4.0:2 75W x 2 car amplifier at Crutchfield.com) 
I'd like to change the components in the front door. I'm thinking about installing the Polk MM6501's or the Hertz ESK 165's. Has anyone ever had either or both of these speakers? I am open to any other suggestions that anyone might have if there is something better in this price range? Im also planning in replacing one of the amps with a 4 channel amp. I think that it's necessary to power the components. Right? If so, any ideas on what might be a good match with this setup? Thanks in advance for any help.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Wow guys. 60 views and not even 1 reply? I was told that this was the site for helpful information.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Just by looking at the drivers, I would go with the hertz, they look better built better and the magnet is bigger, the polks may fit without needing to cut the hole bigger. 

As far as sound, I have not heard the MM series, polks are popular and reliable drivers, I have heard the db series, I think the MM just handle more power, the sound is laid back and safe. 

Polks are popular and sell a lot in the US who knows why. Hertz was or may still be #1 in sales in Europe and are gaining popularity here in the US. 

You need to listen to both and decide, it should not be hard to do, many Polk dealers, fewer authorized Hertz dealers but there should be one in your area.

In my experience Hertz makes better sounding speakers, or at least the sound is more exciting to me and that does not mean they will sound better to you also.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Hey thanks alot. I appreciate the info. I've listened to both at two different dealers. It's just kind of hard to tell them apart vs listening to them in the same room. I think that the Hertz speakers sounded a little better. But I'm looking at $299 for the Polks, and $399 for the Hertz. I m just not sure if they sounded $100 better. Might you have any suggestions on an amp that would be compatible with either set? 
Thanks again.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

If you are set between those 2 then go with your instinct. It is goos to Bring your CD to test them. In that price range there are probably a few good if not better options. Why don't you search threads in the user review section, you may save some money or get a set for that price that may sound better. 

Amps don't sound much different, go with a known brand, Alpine old models and JBL newer entry level amps even though class AB are not power hungry and work with 8 gauge wiring kits, you can get a 4 ch amp in the $130-160 and bridge the channels to get over 120w per ch, class D amps cost more and deliver more power as the price goes up. Some are very small and very nice, pioneer and kenwood have some nice ones, just keep in mind when you bridge channels the speaker load should not be less than 4 ohms.


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

I had the Polks for a while and they were a great comp set. I needed the shallow mids, so that's what got me looking at them to start with. If you don't mind used, you can get the Polks for way cheaper. I think I bought them on here for $150 and sold them for the same.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks alot Alrojoca. I hear what you're saying. I listened to the JL C-3's and the C-5's at two different locations. One location sounded great when they played a CD. The other location sounded horrible when just the radio. I'll take a look at some more of the threads. I've seen a few that are talking about the focals, the Helix, and Rockford Fosgate. I'll have to take a closer look at some of those. You have to excuse me for sounding so naïve, but if I do bridge a four channel amp does that make it a two channel amp? The reason for wanting a four channel is so I can run two channels to the components and two channels to the 4 by 6's in the rear door. Thanks again for the suggestions, I really appreciate it.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

PJC, thanks a lot for the input. I kind of want to go with the new speakers being that it's my first system and all. But I definitely appreciate the good input on the speakers.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

MarkAM said:


> Thanks alot Alrojoca. I hear what you're saying. I listened to the JL C-3's and the C-5's at two different locations. One location sounded great when they played a CD. The other location sounded horrible when just the radio. I'll take a look at some more of the threads. I've seen a few that are talking about the focals, the Helix, and Rockford Fosgate. I'll have to take a closer look at some of those. You have to excuse me for sounding so naïve, but if I do bridge a four channel amp does that make it a two channel amp? The reason for wanting a four channel is so I can run two channels to the components and two channels to the 4 by 6's in the rear door. Thanks again for the suggestions, I really appreciate it.


Rears are fillers, when you add serious power to them it affects your stage, Make things complicated setting gains, also being at knee level or below knee level, sitting in the back the sound is not ideal, and being in the front you barely hear them.

You can just drive the rears with your kenwood HU, and have more power in the front. A 4 ch amp bridged can be a 2 ch amp with more than double the power per ch, and also a 3 ch amp, making the rears a single mono ch for a 4 ohm only sub.

If you have not decided about components, read about the Jbl ms-62, ID CTX65cs, the Pioneer TS D1720, maybe even the JBL p660c just keep in mind it is a 2 ohm mid driver.

Glad I can help, keep asking if you need to, this is what the forum is for, all we ask that you share your choice and maybe post a picture or 2 of your install. :thumbsup:


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

I see what you're saying about the rear speakers. That's good to know. And I very seldom have anyone in the backseat anyway. I'm going to take a look at the speakers now. I started the process of sound deadening my truck last night. I'll post a couple of pics of that when I get home and get back to working on it. Thanks alot.


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## rlee777 (Apr 28, 2009)

In this range there are three options that I would consider besides the MM6501 and ESK165 --

1. JBL MS-62c
2. DLS RS6A (just installed this -- fantastic with good clean power)
3. Morel Maximo 6

These components have shallow mids and small tweeters, so installation should be a breeze. Distortion is low and each has a smooth sound signature. But you need good power -- the HU will not be enough. 

If you are set on the ESK165, be sure to get either the v4 or v5.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Hey Rlee, thanks for the additional options. I'm not quite set on either yet. I was actually leaning more towards the Polks. But I'm definitely going to try to find some of the other three that you mentioned in my area to listen to. I'm very limited when it comes to having choices of places to listen to good speakers. I have to travel couple of hours either way. But it may be worth it. Thanks again for all your help I will definitely let you know what I decide.


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## rlee777 (Apr 28, 2009)

Totally understand. Good car audio shops are getting hard to find. Hearing a system on a soundboard (too many unknown variables) does not really represent what you would hear in a car.

So we rely a lot upon actual user/professional comparative reviews. I stumbled across the DLS RS6A on clearance (ugly box and very few even heard of DLS -- but I knew I was looking at gold!) and the professional reviews are spot on. Heard the well regarded Maximo 6 and these are excellent as well. But the latest win seems to be with the JBL MS62c. DIYMA members have somewhat universal praise for this set and if the MS62c is better than the excellent P660c, then JBL really does have a winner.

Neither the Polk nor the Hertz ESK are slouches, but I have heard both in person and they are fine "consumer" level systems. The three listed above are a step up in refinement and value, yet moderate midbass depth for easy installation and do not need a lot of power to sound excellent.


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## rlee777 (Apr 28, 2009)

Here are some links to reviews that encompasses all the models, except for the JBL:

Car Audio & Entertainment | 6.5" Two Way Components Review Under $600

Car Audio & Entertainment | Affordable 6.5" Two Way Components Review

JBL professional review:

JBL MS62C Two-Way Component Speakers - Speakers - Talk Audio Online Car Audio Magazine & Forum - Talk Audio Online Car Audio Magazine & Forum - Magazine


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Ok Rlee, I took your advice. I started doing a little bit more research on the three sets that you suggested, as well as some others. I did really like what I read about the JBL MS62c's the only thing I was concerned with is that they only have an 80 RMS rating. Maybe I'm pushing it but I was hoping for a little bit more. The ones that I ended up leaning towards are the Morel Maximo 6's. But then I started looking at the Morel tempo 6's. A bit more in price but I'm thinking if the Maximo's are as good as they say, the tempos should be even better. Right? And they are right about the range of RMS that I was looking for. Have you heard the tempos before? What's your take on that? Thanks again for any help.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Morels are great, the reason I did not mention them before, and just recommended the JBL's was because the morels have huge magnets and you may have to cut your holes bigger in most doors.

The ms62 will handle 130 watts each with no problem. I would use a 4 ch amp and bi amp them using the pasives, this way each component gets about 50-60w each clean, rather than bridging and splitting the power within the passive crossover


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

You know I'm getting mixed information from different sites on the rms wattage on the ms62's. Here's an example;
JBL MS-62C (MS62C) 6-1/2" 2-Way MS Component Car Speakers System
And here's Jbl's site;
MS-62C | High fidelity 6-1/2" (160mm) midrange and tweeter component separates with audiophile caliber passive filter network | JBL US
Of course I would like to believe jbl since its their equipment. When I called jbl direct to ask them about it I got some guy (dont mean to iffend anyone)that could barely speak English. He couldn't answer my questions. And then when I asked for the nearest dealer to me he transferred me to someone who transferred me two more times to a distributor in California. He said he was way behind in his work and would call me back. Never did. So I'm concerned if they treat me that way before they get my money, how will they treat me after? Anyhow, sorry for venting. Back to speakers. I don't mind if I have to cut bigger holes in my doors if it means better sound. Question is..is it gonna be $100 worth of better sound? Have you listened to the morels? It looks like either way I'm going to have to make my purchase with no audition.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

MarkAM said:


> You know I'm getting mixed information from different sites on the rms wattage on the ms62's. Here's an example;
> JBL MS-62C (MS62C) 6-1/2" 2-Way MS Component Car Speakers System
> And here's Jbl's site;
> MS-62C | High fidelity 6-1/2" (160mm) midrange and tweeter component separates with audiophile caliber passive filter network | JBL US
> Of course I would like to believe jbl since its their equipment. When I called jbl direct to ask them about it I got some guy (dont mean to iffend anyone)that could barely speak English. He couldn't answer my questions. And then when I asked for the nearest dealer to me he transferred me to someone who transferred me two more times to a distributor in California. He said he was way behind in his work and would call me back. Never did. So I'm concerned if they treat me that way before they get my money, how will they treat me after? Anyhow, sorry for venting. Back to speakers. I don't mind if I have to cut bigger holes in my doors if it means better sound. Question is..is it gonna be $100 worth of better sound? Have you listened to the morels? It looks like either way I'm going to have to make my purchase with no audition.


Sorry to get you confused with some info, clearly the JBL Ms-62 would be a preference over the MM Polk series, if you read threads here and any reviews you will get an idea. These got so popular that you would have a hard time getting them for under $300, 6 months ago you could get them for under $200.00, clearly these will be maybe one step over the ESK's maybe not quite close to the $600 plus Hertz HSK's but Hey! you have to trust the members about what they have said about them. Power handling is just a number the manufacturers throw, if you read the threads some are giving them close to 200 watts each without issues, they can take more than they are rated for. Remember that the average power you give them will hardly over exceed 100 watts for each speaker.

It was said many times in reviews that these JBL's sound similar many other brands in the $400-600 range even the Rainbow Germanium that was a top preference several years ago and you had to pay $600 to get that set.

I would go with an Authorized dealer, Crutchfield, they will take them back if you do not like the sound without any hassle and will include factory wire connector adapters if you wish to keep your factory wiring anf not cut the factory connectors.

I have not listened to the Morels, unless the on line vendor has a warranty, same story, you may have to get them through a local authorized vendor and pay more than you would through Amazon.

Just do a good installation and let us know what you get and how it sounds. If you use MDF rings paint them, and always seal between the door and the ring spacer.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

No apologies needed. You didn't confuse me at all. I did all that on my own. Ha ha anyhow sounds like you're a fan of the JBL's. Understandably so. And it definitely does get great reviews from a lot of the other members here. That's a plus. I read the reviews from one of the sites Rlee posted for me and that got me a lil interested in Morels. I'm going to check out more threads here and search for any other dealers that might offer similar return policies like crutchfield like you said. I'd definitely rather buy from an authorized dealer and make sure I'm getting what I pay for as well as a full warranty as opposed to saving a few bucks and getting less than what I'm supposed to at another site. Also, thanks for the info tip on the purchasing/installation of the amp. I'm definitely going to try bi-amping as opposed to bridging.


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## fast4door (Aug 2, 2012)

I own a set of Hertz ESK 165's and do enjoy the mid range from them . Very clear and vocals shine. I do wish the tweeter's were a little bit less harsh but that is maybe just me or my tuning . I will step to the HSK 165 here in a week or two and I can tell you the difference. Overall I say the ESK is a great set for the money and am glad I purchased them . They do seem to like more power as they will shine when you hit them hard.


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## rlee777 (Apr 28, 2009)

The Morel Tempo is a step up from the Maximo 6 components primarily in the ability to take power and maintain clarity -- sounds less "congested" than the Maximo. But as noted, the depth of the midbass is greater -- I think 2.5 inches and the price higher. At around $300 street, the Tempo would compete directly with the Hertz ESK and HAT Imagine -- and fare very well if you are looking for a smooth, neutral, good resolution system. A lot of folks are used to a smiley face response and attention grabbing forward sound -- the Morels do not offer this, the JBL MS62c slightly. What the models I recommend offer good resolution -- guitars sound like guitars -- instruments sound real, not exaggerated. If you do have the chance to demo -- take your time and listen to good acoustic recordings and/or well recorded female voices. Which components make the instruments sound _real_ and _live_? As you stretch the budget toward the high-end systems, the ability to reproduce the _real_ and the feeling of the _live_ performance increases -- but usually at much higher price tags.

If your reproduction goal is different, then any of the systems in this thread will do nicely -- it would be worth your time/expense to demo and see what *sounds best to you*.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks for the info fast4door.. It seems like most of the reviews that I've seen lean towards the Morels. (No offense). I did get to listen to the Hertz ESK's and I thought they sounded great also. I just haven't had a chance to hear the morels. Just found a dealer today that is about an hour and a half away. going out of town tomorrow right near there. Planning on stopping by to hear both the tempos and the maximos. Now if I could only find a dealer who has the JBL's! Thanks again.


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## mojozoom (Feb 11, 2012)

Look at the FR curve of the ESKs on the Hertz site - you won't want them after that.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

mojozoom said:


> Look at the FR curve of the ESKs on the Hertz site - you won't want them after that.


LOL....he's supposed to believe a graph over his own ears?


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## mojozoom (Feb 11, 2012)

thomasluke said:


> LOL....he's supposed to believe a graph over his own ears?


Maybe not, but he'll probably want to make sure he has enough EQ to cover the roller coaster FR curve coupled with the cabin gain of his vehicle. 

I own the ESK 570, which is a 5x7 version of the same set. The mids don't provide nearly the midbass I'd want from them, and they really complain if you try to cross them below 80 hz. The magnet only looks large because its got a pretty rubber cover on it. The cones are orange painted paper. The crossovers use lower end components and have many rattles and buzzes you'll hear if you mount them in the doors. If you use the padding switch on the tweeter you pretty much lose everything above 8K. The crossovers also eat alot of power and color the midrange somehow so its harsher. The ET20 tweeters are pretty decent by themselves- I still use them today.

My $60 pair of Silver Flutes utterly embarrass the Hertz mids. This is also worth reading:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/system-design-help-me-choose-equipment-my-car/75099-hertz-esk-165-vs-pioneer-ts-c720prs.html


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

Hey guys, thanks for the info. I may have changed my mind completely. Yesterday I went to a local Stereo shop that I'd never been in before. I was hoping to find the JBL's so I could listen to them. Instead I got to listen to a pair of focals PS165's.
Focal PS 165, car audio coaxial hifi speakers to customize your car sound system.
Wow! Impressive. Now the salesman/owner had nothing but good things to say about the Morel tempos and Maximo's. But he did say that for the kind of music that I listen to, (mostly classic rock, alternative) then I would probably prefer the Focals. And I must say they sound pretty darn good. Now one of the major differences is in the price. The Focals are going to be $399. I believe I've seen the JBL's at an authorized dealer for $299. There hertz come in at $399 for the ESK model. And $199 for the Polks. The Focals Definitely sound better than the Polk MM6501's and I would say they sounded better than the Hertz ESK165. So I thought I'd throw another speaker out there to see if any of you have heard these or had any information on them. Thanks again to all of you for all of your help.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

To confuse you even more check the Hybrid Audio Technologies, Hat imagine or why not the Clarus model.


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## MarkAM (Jun 8, 2013)

LOL
Ok. Will do. I think he said that he carries the Clarus model. Have you heard them? If so, how do they size up against the Focals? It appears that alot of the members here prefer the Hertz HSK's over the Focal PS 165's. Are they even considered to be in the same class? I didn't listen to the HSK's. Only the ESK's, and they were $399. The same price as the Focals. 
Thanks for everyone's input.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

You should just trust yours ears. You are doing the right thing, keep in mind when you listen to a set, you have to think if you would enjoy listening to them over 15 minutes without fatigue.


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