# Amp Instalation Question - what to do?



## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

A good friend gave me three amps - Zapco's. I found out they are the reference Series, but a little older (not sure how old). I went to a local stereo shop (non-Zapco) to discuss and installation. They were definitely pushing me towards a new Audision LRX5.1K. Although it is a great amp and i am very limited in space, the free price of the Zapco's carry a lot of weight. They said that the Zapco's would need 2 Kinectic Power cell 600's (smaller) but the Audison would not. I am not sure what to do. SHould I buy new because these are outdated Amps......? 

The amps are a 250, a 350 and a 750 watt. Picture of the 250 attached (might help to determine age?) I am running Hertz 163 - 3 way in the front with an HCX 130.3 coax in the rear and 2 x 8" ES200 in enclosure. 

Any advice would be great. Oh yeah it is going in a 2007 Porsche 911


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## Volenti (Feb 17, 2010)

While it is true the audison will be more efficient at powering your subs, if *it* doesn't need additional batteries to work in your car than neither will the zapco amps. 

I would however test/get the zapco amps tested to confirm that they are still in good working order before you go ahead with anything.


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## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

Good idea on the testing. I spoke with another stereo shop yesterday that actually sells Zapco. They said I would not need the extra batteries, but the Zapcos I have are not right for my aplication. There are 3 of them, they are all 2 channel, and I am so limited in space they do not recommend them. The installer suggested at first Zapco's DC reference series although wanted to really thik it through for a couple of days befere quoting me anything. I mentioned the Audiosn 5.1K as an option (1 amp, 5 channels, small footprint) but he said they do not produce great power for Subs. In fact, there is a guy sellling one on here who said the same thing and swapped his out for the Jl HD amps.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Please don't listen to car audio salesmen. The majority of them don't know much about car audio, and the rest of them have a vested interest in selling you something. So, you came to the right place. 

I can understand why you wouldn't want to put three amplifiers in the car. That's going to take up a lot of space. The BS about batteries is idiotic though. The Audison would be a great solution. I'd never buy one, because they're not worth anywhere near the price tag. But if that's the only multichannel amplifier available to you, then I can understand why you'd ditch the Zapcos.


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## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

I am trying not to listen to the stereo shop guys. I usually take what they tell me and verify it here (or in most cases refute it here). One installer told me the Jl HD amps when they heat up to much they restrict output to 50% until they are shut off and restarted. So in other words a 500 Watt amp would only run at 250 until restarted. They sell the JL's so it I thought maybe it was the truth, but I have not heard that from anyone here. I am not locked into any amps at this point. I can pick up an Audison 5.1K for about $850, so that is not to bad considering they list for $1400+. My concern with this amp is what I heard about running Subs (SQ) and if I ever want to upgrade I am kinda locked in since I would have to replace the entire amp (not as easy as with 2 separate amps). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I don't understand why the shop owner thinks that the Audison won't be powerful enough to power two 8s. Doesn't it have like a 1300w sub output, or something ridiculous like that? If anything, that would be overkill. What I don't like about the Audison is the price tag, but your wallet doesn't hurt me any.  I'm also not keen on the gimmicky overbiased 2 channel output, but I guess you could just run your rears with that.


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## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

I heard several people say the Subs do not sound great coming from the Audison 5.1k. Check this thread out:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio-sq-forum/86712-jl-hd-amps-done-searching.html

he said the 5.1K had no balls for the Sub channel. I read another thread that talked about making sure you switch the Crossover setting on the amp properly or you will get muddy sounding Subs. I am not sure if the guy who swapped out for the JL's just did not have the amp set properly.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

haha I'm well acquainted with that thread. 

I would bet that the crossover settings (and phase/polarity...and delay) were probably the main difference. 1300w is quite frankly excessive for your application. Although, there's really no such thing as too much power.

Having said all that, I'd probably go with the JL offering, if it was me. Cheaper, but still well built amps, no gimmicky high bias channel, etc.

Edit: I know that ^^^ sounds wishy washy. But my point is that the complaints about the Audison sub channel being inadequate, or the JL overheating and cutting its power, are a bit silly, IMO. You'll be doing great with either amp.


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## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

I guess I would be fine with either. I might just go with the Audison since there is one available in the classified section.


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## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> haha I'm well acquainted with that thread.



LOL. You were pretty active in that thread


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Getting a multi channel amp do safe you some space and best of all, power managements. Some other points is, cooling of the amps are important. If give you a 100% efficiency amp but you don't provide enough of cooling it will shutdown also. Gain setting and the speaker impedence also paly their part. power supply also is a place you cannot miss out, too. 
When everything is done right, you won't have those gimmick talks like amp turns hot or blah blah blah.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

kyheng said:


> Getting a multi channel amp do safe you some space and best of all, power managements. Some other points is, cooling of the amps are important. If give you a 100% efficiency amp but you don't provide enough of cooling it will shutdown also.


By definition, a 100% efficient amp wouldn't generate heat. Of course, there's no such thing as a 100% efficient amp, so...


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## BLKonBLKC4S (Jul 30, 2010)

Found the Lrx 5.1 Bass issue thread. check this out - 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-product-reviews/40503-audison-lrx-5-1k.html

Looks like it could have been the same problem the guy who switched to the JL's had in that other thread.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

They all said in that thread that the problem was solved by tweaking their crossover points. Enabling the lowpass on the amp, while keeping the lowpass on the HU, is equivalent to increasing the slope of a single filter.

That's kinda weird, but I don't think the amp is necessarily the culprit. The original guy made a LOT of changes. Changing the midbass significantly will always ... ALWAYS ... have an impact on our perception of the sub bass. Our brains do a really crappy job of separating out and distinguishing adjacent bands.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

MarkZ, yeah you are right, there's no 100% efficiency amp in reality. Just that sometimes alot of people like to make general statements like the HD600/4 runs very hot. Before jumping into such conclusion, I will measure the temperature before the amp plays and after a certain period of time played. That will make more sense, right?
Alot of people always think others that goes against them are their enemies, but that's wrong. Our biggest enemy at all time until the day we die is still our brain.


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