# 2014 Lexus IS350 F-Sport Scanspeak, Acoustic Elegance, Mosconi, Alpine



## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

So I thought I'd start a build log with my new ride. The equipment I'll be using is from my previous car, except the Helix DSP will be swapped with a Mosconi. 
This will be a 3-way Scanspeak front stage with a pair of AE 15" infinite / trunk baffle subs.

Here's the list of what's going in.
Scanspeak 18WU
Scanspeak 12M
Scanspeak D3004/6020
AE SBP15 Apollo (pair) 
Mosconi 6to8v8 DSP
Alpine PDX V9 (bridged front stage left)
Alpine PDX V9 (bridged front stage right)
Alpine PDX M12
SDS CLD Tiles
Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro (for rear deck to reduce backwave leakage into th e cabin)
Power / ground wiring and distro blocks are Stinger

I've already started the build and have the amps and dsp mounted and started on the doors, but first a few pics of the car. 3rd gen 2014 Lexus IS350 AWD F-Sport with a mild drop on RS-R down springs.


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

I'm watching this


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

good gear, good car! looking forward to the outcome


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

One of the build i've been waiting on. Congrats on that sweet ride.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Subscribed


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

That drop mixed with that gear is going to be a killer combo.


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

running the front stage via passive?


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## FunkPnut (May 16, 2008)

Nice. 

Why the switch from Helix to Mosconi this round?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm in. This'll be good


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm really excited about the car and putting the gear I have in it. My install / fab skills are no where near the level of some of the builds I see on here and with my job and family I don't have a ton of time to dedicate to working on this so it's not going to be super polished with fancy amp racks, or even custom made RCA cables. My goal is a clean and functional install that doesn't take too much away from the OEM look and in the end it's really all about how it sounds. If I can pull that off I'll consider it a success. 

A little bit about the car. It has the standard non-ML audio system which consists of 8 speakers and around 500w total. Front door woofers, dash mids + center, rear doors and rear deck sub. The ML option has more speakers, mainly tweeters, probably a little better quality and more power. Around 800 watts I think. But like previous Lexus's all audio functions are controlled in the pioneer manufactured amp in the trunk. This means I'll take the audio signal post-amp and run in through the DSP. From the research I did I need to sum the front 4 channels + sub in order to get the full range. That's why I switched out the helix DSP. It only had 4 inputs. I was going to get the Helix Pro but I found a good deal on the Mosconi so I thought I'd try it. So far from what I've seen and used of it the software UI is not very intuitive and seems disjointed. Helix is a lot easier to use and I miss it already. Hopefully it'll get better after get used to the Mosconi interface.

So on to the install. First, 0 guage power cable was ran from battery to trunk through existing wiring grommet in the firewall. I mounted the fuse holder to the chassis and notched out the plastic battery terminal cover.









Back at the trunk I mounted the amps and DSP in the spare tire wheel well. 
This looks a bit rough at the moment. I'll paint the board, tidy up the wiring some more and maybe make a beauty panel when I have time. The distro blocks are mounted to the under side of the board.








Wires tapped at factory amp.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Looks very good so far, and the most important part as you've stated is the sound.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I took the Alpine RUX knob apart and mounted it to an empty spot on the dash.









Next up the front door mounted woofers. A shot of the stock door.









Out goes the plastic speakers and in go the Scan 18wu's (paper cone version).









The nice thing is they are roughly the same diameter. 7.1" this makes installation go a bit easier.









And I really like that the grill on the door card is also the same diameter. This is the first vehicle I've had with a large fully functional OEM grill. Not something that looks good on the outside but in actuality is half covered up.









Custom baffles screwed together front and back and construction adhesive in between. Painted and coated with truck bedliner spray.









I treated inside of inner and outer doors skins with a moderate amount SDS CLD tiles. I decided not to go over board this time. I had used so much deadener in my last car that it got to be difficult to close the doors because it was so heavy. This time I'm taking a more careful and strategic approach. I'm only going to add more deadener if it's absolutely necessary. 
For the large holes I decided to cover them with some left over deadener I had from my previous build.









I attached scotch guard treated grill cloth behind the baffle. It is only mounted at the top so it will drap over the back of the woofer and help protect it from any water that might get into the door.









This is a shot with the scan 18wu mounted.









and the door card put back on.









All in all it was a good fit. The diameter of scan matches perfectly with the stock grill and there was just enough depth and clearance to comfortably fit them with enough room for woofer excursion between the grill.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Next up will be figuring out how to mount the mids and tweets in the dash. This is a shot of the oem midrange on the left next to the 12m and 3004. My thought was to somehow mount them both underneath that factory grill. I will most likely cut the center portion of the grill out, leaving a frame and then wrap it with grill cloth. But I'm open to other suggestions.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Coppertone said:


> Looks very good so far, and the most important part as you've stated is the sound.


Thanks.


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## eling23 (Oct 13, 2014)

love the gear selection and the car. subscribed! great work thus far. Yeah i have the mosconi as well, wish the UI was better, but it is what it is.


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## bigjeep127 (May 12, 2013)

Subscribed, can't wait to see the AE's with the Apollo!


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

Nice ride. I gave my wife the Lexus IS350 convertible as a anniversary present. She loves it. Next us GS V8 Powaaa! Looking forward to your build. Good luck!


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## bigjeep127 (May 12, 2013)

You seem to know Lexus. My wife just got a 2015 RX with the non ML system (think it's 8 speakers just like yours). 

When you say the amp handles all the audio functions does this mean it's not possible to grab a clean pre-amp signal as there isn't one? I would have to assume that's why you're summing post amp.

Ever taken a look at the stock sub signal? The system is good enough for her except for the sub. I was thinking of just adding a small aftermarket/amp'd sub in place of the stock one.

Are most late model Lexus's the same?

Thanks, not a lot of info on the RX out there from what I can see.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Subd. Love the car and the gear. Good luck with the install.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> Subd. Love the car and the gear. Good luck with the install.





eling23 said:


> love the gear selection and the car. subscribed! great work thus far. Yeah i have the mosconi as well, wish the UI was better, but it is what it is.





bigjeep127 said:


> Subscribed, can't wait to see the AE's with the Apollo!





rxonmymind said:


> Nice ride. I gave my wife the Lexus IS350 convertible as a anniversary present. She loves it. Next us GS V8 Powaaa! Looking forward to your build. Good luck!


Thanks for the feedback & encouragement.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

bigjeep127 said:


> You seem to know Lexus. My wife just got a 2015 RX with the non ML system (think it's 8 speakers just like yours).
> 
> When you say the amp handles all the audio functions does this mean it's not possible to grab a clean pre-amp signal as there isn't one? I would have to assume that's why you're summing post amp.
> 
> ...


I'm not an expert but I did a lot of research on these cars before I started and from what I've seen so far holds up. ML equipped or not the factory amp handles all of the audio controls, volume fade, bal etc. So post-amp signal must be used if you want to retain the factory HU controls. Not ideal but I don't expect it to make much difference to the final audio quality. The Mosconi DSP is used in a lot of Lexus vehicles and does a great job.
I wouldn't expect your wife's RX would be any different. The sub signal goes down to 20Hz and it should be easy for you to tap (on the 30 pin plug that goes into the amp it should be the +gray / -blue wires, pins 6 - 21). Just run it to the high level inputs of the sub amp.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I was able to get the drivers side midrange installed in the dash. However, my original plan to fit the tweeter in there isn't going to work. There just isn't enough room for both the 12m and d3004. Mostly because the flange on the 3004 is too big. If I could remove that I might work but from what I've researched it doesn't look like that will be feasible. So my options now are to either get smaller tweeters or mount these in the pillars. I'd rather not deal with pillars again so I may look for new tweets. 
I used to have the morel mt23 those sounded great to me and were very compact in size. If anybody has any recommendations let me know. they probably only need comfortably play from about 5K and up.

Here's some pics of the midrange speaker install.

Factory location, cutout.









I picked up a 3-pack of 1/8" thick cutting boards for $10 from Target and used that for the baffle.









Baffle painted and 12M mounted. There's still a little from in corner for a tweeter.









I cut the center portion of the oem grill out, leaving a frame and covered with stinger grill cloth. Still retains the OEM look to me.









Now I'm off to do the passenger side...


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Is it possible to build a small tweet pod in the far left corner of the mid grill?


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## FunkPnut (May 16, 2008)

Can you fit the ScanSpeak D2004? 2.18" diameter.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Great looking build so far. I am pretty sure I've seen a couple of builds that the owners were able to remove the large flange from those tweeters. I have the same tweets as well but didn't want to try it not knowing if it was possible. I'll see if I can find those builds.


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## Basshertz1 (Jun 17, 2011)

This is off to a good start digging the equipment, what are you thinking for the tweeter location?


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Basshertz1 said:


> This is off to a good start digging the equipment, what are you thinking for the tweeter location?





bigbubba said:


> Great looking build so far. I am pretty sure I've seen a couple of builds that the owners were able to remove the large flange from those tweeters. I have the same tweets as well but didn't want to try it not knowing if it was possible. I'll see if I can find those builds.





FunkPnut said:


> Can you fit the ScanSpeak D2004? 2.18" diameter.





Bluenote said:


> Is it possible to build a small tweet pod in the far left corner of the mid grill?


Thanks for the suggestions on the tweeters. I'm going to look into all of them. But for now I'm moving on to the subs and with any luck I'll have them in today.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

very nice, interested to see how this comes along.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

So I was able to get the subs installed and hooked up yesterday. I'm pretty happy about that. No tuning on them yet but bass sounds really good. I love IB. and I think they sound better in this car then they did in the last one.

The baffles I've done in the past have been out of mdf. This time I went with Birch (5 layer variety from HD). Compared to MDF it's just as strong or stronger, lighter and easier to work with. I should have been using Birch all along. MDF makes such a mess everywhere. The baffle is two pieces thick with a thin layer of construction adheisive in between. Total baffle weight is just 7.5 lbs. Not bad for what is essentially the box for two 15" subs. 

I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. There's a good tight fit between the baffle and the trunk liner. I only used two small brackets at the top of the baffle to mount to the car. I didn't feel like I needed anything on the bottom because it's wedge in good.


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Omg that looks sweet,they just belong yo!


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## Basshertz1 (Jun 17, 2011)

Wow that was quick is that factory haha, because that looks great in there


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Basshertz1 said:


> Wow that was quick is that factory haha, because that looks great in there





strong*I*bumpin said:


> Omg that looks sweet,they just belong yo!


Thanks! That was about an 8 hr job for me. I've done 3 of these baffles for different cars now and it doesn't really get any easier. You figure it out as you go along. It did help that the wife and kids (4 & 6 year old) were away for the day. haha.

Here's one more pic I forgot to post.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I did a quick 45 min tune tonight after work, before my battery died, and I think it sounds really good already. I was surprised by how easy it was. Once I get some tweeters in there I think it'll definitely have some potential.


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## FunkPnut (May 16, 2008)

That looks really good!

The trunk passthrough is like a perfect fit for those subs mounted.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Darn, this has to be one of the sweetest looking IB that I've ever seen.


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## Jumbo Jet (May 31, 2008)

Such a beautiful car. One of my favorites. It's such a kick in the nutts to that car that your state requires a front license plate. The IS350's have one of the most beautiful front grills of any car on the road, and the DOT has to puke all over that work of art with a front plate. 

A great build so far, can't wait to see more. Nice work!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

FunkPnut said:


> That looks really good!
> 
> The trunk passthrough is like a perfect fit for those subs mounted.





Coppertone said:


> Darn, this has to be one of the sweetest looking IB that I've ever seen.


Thanks guys. I agree the shape of the trunk passthrough compliments the subs. Or is it the other way around.. 
Funk, how are you liking that Max15?



Jumbo Jet said:


> Such a beautiful car. One of my favorites. It's such a kick in the nutts to that car that your state requires a front license plate. The IS350's have one of the most beautiful front grills of any car on the road, and the DOT has to puke all over that work of art with a front plate.
> 
> A great build so far, can't wait to see more. Nice work!


I'm with you on the front license plate. That ugly thing just takes away from the car. That's why I looked around for the thickest black license plate frame I could find so it would cover as much as possible while still being legal. It helps a little anyway.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Now for the tweeters I'm thinking of trying these behind the factory grill next to the midrange. Vifa peerless-ox20sc00-04
Flangeless and compact, about 1.34" overall. Their product brochure says "designed to fit snugly into small applications." That's exactly what I need. They look to be decent performers too. Zalph reviews it here. I'll only be playing them from about 5k and up. and maybe crossing them even higher.

edit: I was about to buy these but thought I'd better do a little more research. Some reviewers are saying they sound harsh, a little tinny, and can't handle power. Could explain why they only cost 20 bucks. Anybody here try them? I'm also looking at the Morel MD12, and trimming the flange off. They have positive reviews and I've liked the morel stuff I've tried in the past. They're a little bigger dia though and would be more difficult to fit.


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## FunkPnut (May 16, 2008)

gregerst22 said:


> Thanks guys. I agree the shape of the trunk passthrough compliments the subs. Or is it the other way around..
> Funk, how are you liking that Max15?.


I'm digging the IDMAX15 IB. Wish I would've tried IB sooner.

I need to hear your AE's for comparison to see how much cleaner they play and what the potential output difference is.

I remember they sounded really good the 2nd tune I heard.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

A little update. Last night after dinner I started opening up the dash tweeter location so I could get a better idea of what size tweet would fit. Well I just kept it going and after much dremeling, scratching my head, more dremmeling and some bending of metal I got the d3004's to fit in there. I did have a mishap with one of the tweeters though. During the final installation I broke the + terminal off. It probably got loosened up during one of the many test fittings. It's been mentioned before that the terminals on these scans are a bit fragile. So there it was 12am and I have the tweeter completely apart, removing the grill / flange wasn't easy, and soldering a tiny voice coil lead back on to the terminal. In the end I got everything back where it's supposed to go and my system is rockin! 

The two Scans all cozy together.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

FunkPnut said:


> I'm digging the IDMAX15 IB. Wish I would've tried IB sooner.
> 
> I need to hear your AE's for comparison to see how much cleaner they play and what the potential output difference is.
> 
> I remember they sounded really good the 2nd tune I heard.


That's awesome. That sub is a beast, both physically and sonically. I'd love to hear it your car. We need to meet up sometime after I get my system tuned.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

REALLY like the way you have been able to integrate your preferred equipment picks into the stock locations to keep it stealth, as well as do a quality install job without going overboard on the details.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

seafish said:


> REALLY like the way you have been able to integrate your preferred equipment picks into the stock locations to keep it stealth, as well as do a quality install job without going overboard on the details.


Thanks. You discovered my modus operandi.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

This is badass man love how it all disappears!


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## bigjeep127 (May 12, 2013)

gregerst22 said:


> I'm not an expert but I did a lot of research on these cars before I started and from what I've seen so far holds up. ML equipped or not the factory amp handles all of the audio controls, volume fade, bal etc. So post-amp signal must be used if you want to retain the factory HU controls. Not ideal but I don't expect it to make much difference to the final audio quality. The Mosconi DSP is used in a lot of Lexus vehicles and does a great job.
> I wouldn't expect your wife's RX would be any different. The sub signal goes down to 20Hz and it should be easy for you to tap (on the 30 pin plug that goes into the amp it should be the +gray / -blue wires, pins 6 - 21). Just run it to the high level inputs of the sub amp.


Thanks, that's good info! Gives me some motivation towards doing something with her car. I'll just have to find a good spot to come through the firewall with power, did you have to drill into the existing grommet or did it push through?

Have you or do you plan to do any sealing of the rear deck or around the baffle? Do you have to cut any metal on the back of the seat?

Good call on the birch ply, I don't know why so many use MDF, I guess it's the cost.

Love love loving the build, man you work quickly too!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

bigjeep127 said:


> Thanks, that's good info! Gives me some motivation towards doing something with her car. I'll just have to find a good spot to come through the firewall with power, did you have to drill into the existing grommet or did it push through?
> 
> Have you or do you plan to do any sealing of the rear deck or around the baffle? Do you have to cut any metal on the back of the seat?
> 
> ...


For the power there was an existing gromet near the battery I cut the zip tie that kept it zinched closed then I carefully cut a small slit with a utility knife starting from the center out. I made the slit just large enough that I needed to forcefully, but not too forcefully, pull the power wire through. 

The baffle fits really tight on the front. But because of the way the top of the pass through is shaped with indentations there are 3 or 4 very small gaps. I could seal those but I've learned that small gaps like that won't make a bit of difference. The rear deck is sealed up pretty good from the factory. The only thing I needed to do was remove factory sub and cover the hole with birch ply.

It's worth mentioning that this is my first Lexus and as far as build quality goes I really like what I've seen so far. I've only used 14 SDS tiles on the entire thing, less than half of what I was expecting to use. The rear deck and trunk barely make any noise. The side mirrors don't shake at all, the rear view barely does and interior panels aren't resonating all over the place.


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## TheAlchemist9 (Apr 29, 2015)

Whoa, great car and build. In!


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## Marc1234 (Oct 18, 2012)

Nice build! Great equipment! Love the stock look, please let us know how the dash location works out. As you know the stock system is pretty harsh bouncing off the windshield. Reading this motivated me to take apart the back half of my RC350 today as I have had a pair of AE's mocking me for months now. There are actually quite a few other holes that leak to the cabin besides the stock sub location(I assume the bodies are very similar). Some of them have this 1/4" or so foam. Should I plug those before or just let her eat? Thanks and congrats!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Marc1234 said:


> Nice build! Great equipment! Love the stock look, please let us know how the dash location works out. As you know the stock system is pretty harsh bouncing off the windshield. Reading this motivated me to take apart the back half of my RC350 today as I have had a pair of AE's mocking me for months now. There are actually quite a few other holes that leak to the cabin besides the stock sub location(I assume the bodies are very similar). Some of them have this 1/4" or so foam. Should I plug those before or just let her eat? Thanks and congrats!


Thanks! I'm pretty happy with the way it's turned out so far. I had a little snafu with getting two input lines into the Mosconi mixed up. That had me puzzled for awhile as to why I couldn't get it sounding quite right. Now that I have that resolved things are much better. I'll be fine tuning for awhile but the system sounds pretty solid to me right now. 
I can now say, through various vehicles and equipment, that I've tried about every mounting location there is for mids and tweets; A-pillar, kicks, upper doors, sail panel's and now dash. They all have their pro's and con's. Choice of speakers and a capable DSP makes a world of difference.

Speaking of which, I'm liking the Mosconi now that I've been using it awhile. The hardware seems great. It's super quiet and very clean sounding. I like the separation between instruments and detail I'm hearing in my music. The software however is just okay, my biggest gripe is that there can be a lot of closing and reopening windows in order to get things done. For example if I'm setting crossovers and I want to adjust T/A or Phase I need to close out of the crossovers window and open the T/A screen. To get back to the crossovers I need to close the T/A screen and reopen crossovers. Every area has it's own window, Input, EQ, Crossovers, Level, T/A, Phase, etc. So there can be a lot of back and forth jumping around especially on a new setup. But once things are mostly dialed in it's less of an issue and in the end it really sounds great and that's what matters most.

Something else worth mentioning is that IB in this car sounds really good. It must be the shape and size of the cabin but it sound so wonderful. Sub bass extends flat down to 23Hz, it's clean, articulate, upfront and enveloping all at the same time without any eq or adjustments other than flipping the phase. I've done IB in 3 different cars with 4 different types of subs including these same subs in my last car and they have all sounded great but this one really does sound the best.
I think you'll be very happy about getting those AE's in there and I wouldn't worry too much about sealing up the little holes just cover the large ones. Considering that two 15" have about 264 square inches of surface area. It'll easily neutralize those 1/4" holes. But if you have time and want to cover them it certainly won't hurt. I just think it's optional.
btw awesome car. Love the RC. I had a coupe when I was younger and wouldn't mind getting back into one after my kids have grown.


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## Basshertz1 (Jun 17, 2011)

The IB looks great I bet this car sounds great with what you have in it, sweet looking car also


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## Marc1234 (Oct 18, 2012)

gregerst22 said:


> Thanks! I'm pretty happy with the way it's turned out so far. I had a little snafu with getting two input lines into the Mosconi mixed up. That had me puzzled for awhile as to why I couldn't get it sounding quite right. Now that I have that resolved things are much better. I'll be fine tuning for awhile but the system sounds pretty solid to me right now.
> I can now say, through various vehicles and equipment, that I've tried about every mounting location there is for mids and tweets; A-pillar, kicks, upper doors, sail panel's and now dash. They all have their pro's and con's. Choice of speakers and a capable DSP makes a world of difference.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm liking the Mosconi now that I've been using it awhile. The hardware seems great. It's super quiet and very clean sounding. I like the separation between instruments and detail I'm hearing in my music. The software however is just okay, my biggest gripe is that there can be a lot of closing and reopening windows in order to get things done. For example if I'm setting crossovers and I want to adjust T/A or Phase I need to close out of the crossovers window and open the T/A screen. To get back to the crossovers I need to close the T/A screen and reopen crossovers. Every area has it's own window, Input, EQ, Crossovers, Level, T/A, Phase, etc. So there can be a lot of back and forth jumping around especially on a new setup. But once things are mostly dialed in it's less of an issue and in the end it really sounds great and that's what matters most.
> ...


Glad you're digging the Mosconi! Very excited to try it, especially with the AMAS!
I totally agree with you about equipment and DSP for harshness. Rigid material tweeters are obviously not for me. 

I wonder if Mosconi did the GUI separation intentionally so that one follows a certain path to tune or at least doesn't undo or confound things. Seems to be a flowchart for tuning sometimes. I know that DSP Pro was easy to get lost in for a first time tuner like myself.

Glad IB is working so well in that IS........for obvious selfish reasons as well. Hehehehe. There's an online calculator for room modes that uses interior measurements to locate possible peaks in freq response. If it sounds good, right on! 

I'll definitely take your advice on the speaker locations and holes in body. It's a lease anyway so I don't need to do too much. Thanks for posting the first 3is build and the info you gave me about tapping the right wires! I do love the coupe but dang it's tough getting in and out sometimes as I'm 35. Lol. I couldn't imagine if I was taller than 5'8". Happy listening!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Yup AMAS is next on my list. The main reasons I wanted to try the Mosoconi over the Helix Pro was I saw that it had been used in a lot of lexus builds. So I knew that it *should* work without major issues. The Pro is relatively new and software is still in beta. Being in IT infrastructure you learn to be careful with running new equipment and software in production and for me my car is my production environment. lol. 
I don't think your theory about the layout of the GUI holds true unless they do things a little backwards in Italy. They have EQ as the second option and Level at the bottom. I think most people would agree that you'll want to set levels, crossovers before you touch eq. Like I mentioned though it's not a big deal once you get used to it. After hooking up a mouse to my laptop instead of using the trackpad I could zip around the interface pretty quickly. oh and one thing I really do like is how it saves changes in real time. Your going to be glad to have that if your car is like mine it will auto shut off the accessory after only 20 minutes. But a quick push of the start button will usually keep power to the DSP so you don't have to reload the presets again and there is a hidden setting in the Mosconi to change the power off delay when you press alt+d.

As far as harshness from the windshield. I wouldn't be too concerned once tuned it can sound great. Compared to other vehicles and setups I've had tonality in this car sounds on par.


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## Marc1234 (Oct 18, 2012)

A lot of people are digging that AMAS. Let us know when you get it. About the DSP Pro software......I'm definitely glad that they update frequently. Lol. 

Well that throws my theory out for sure. Thanks for the tip on the mouse to makes things easier as well as the hidden option. 

I had noticed that on certain recordings the stage seemed deeper and wider than other stock systems I've had. I guessed it was the placement of the speakers near the windshield. Pros and cons I guess. This improvement only seemed to come from the BlueTooth connection tho. Both my devices are Apple but BT seemed fuller and more open than the USB connection. Both devices' EQ settings were flat. Not sure if you've ran into this.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Still a work in progress but here's an RTA screenshot of my current tune at 1/3 res. For dash location firing up at the windshield it holds it own with other installs I've done. In fact it has more midrange detail than it did in the G but that car had a wider soundstage with the speakers in the upper door and sail panels.


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## Marc1234 (Oct 18, 2012)

gregerst22 said:


> Still a work in progress but here's an RTA screenshot of my current tune at 1/3 res. For dash location firing up at the windshield it holds it own with other installs I've done. In fact it has more midrange detail than it did in the G but that car had a wider soundstage with the speakers in the upper door and sail panels.


Beautiful!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Small update. I swapped out the Alpine's for JL. Basically a direct swap. Two HD 900/5's, one for each side and the 1200/1 for subs.
The reason for the switch was just curiosity.


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## jonnybruno (Feb 18, 2015)

gregerst22 said:


> Small update. I swapped out the Alpine's for JL. Basically a direct swap. Two HD 900/5's, one for each side and the 1200/1 for subs.
> The reason for the switch was just curiosity.


How does it sound with the new JL's?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

jonnybruno said:


> How does it sound with the new JL's?


Yep.. Interested in your take on the HD's compared to PDX's. Just curious.
NICE doggone build!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

jonnybruno said:


> How does it sound with the new JL's?





Babs said:


> Yep.. Interested in your take on the HD's compared to PDX's. Just curious.
> NICE doggone build!


Well I'll say up front that I didn't take the time to A/B them in a controlled fashion. For source material I used CD's and music from my iPod classic w/ wolfson DAC connected to the factory HU in my car. 
Basically they are extremely similar sounding to me. One area where I thought the JL 900/5 seemed to edge out slightly was having more clarity and instrument separation. But I would really need to A/B them to validate that.

The HD's also have as much or more power than the PDX's despite the the Alpine's being rated @200w bridged on the mains, with actual birth sheets listing both of my V9's at over 120w/ ch non-bridged. The JL's are rated 100w/ch and 150w bridged. So given the Alpine's 25%, or more power, advantage I thought I would need to turn the gains up at least a smidge higher on the HD amps to match the output of the PDX's but that was not the case. On the JL's the gains are just shy of 1/4 to match the Alpine's output which were slightly over 1/4 turn. Maybe it's just internal structure of the amps and doesn't mean much but thought it was interesting. 

At my gain settings both JL and Alpine have a small amount of floor noise in my car. Clearly audible with the car off in the garage. With gains down both amps have no audible floor noise from drivers seat. 

Not much to say about the 1200/1 other than there's plenty of power for my subs. Bass still sounds tight, clean and controlled. Here again the gain on the 1200/1 is lower relative to the setting on the M12.

So from my little subjective comparison there wasn't any major differences between the two. But when factoring in street prices, like Amazon or even Crutchfield, it would be difficult to recommend the HD 900/5 with a price tag that's 30% - 50% over a PDX V9. But there are those that are willing to pay for what is perceived by many to be the best Class D amps. I don't think I would dispute that but obviously the price premium doesn't buy an amp that performs or sounds 30% - 50% better than Alpine PDX's. I don't even know if the percentage is quantifiable but if were to put a number on it it would be much lower.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Still playing around with tuning and for the first time I've managed to get sub bass up on the dash. It sounds like the subs are in and on the dash with just about every song and sub bass is always upfront and never behind. Even tactile feedback from the subs start under my feet and stay forward. Very little vibration on the seat back or behind me. Pretty cool. There is a bit less impact from the subs but the integration with midbass is seamless and sounds really good.

The difference between the upfront bass I had before to this was a culmination getting the proper fr slope on the midbass's and crossover. Getting subs to sound like they're on the dash came down to 5Hz tweak in the crossovers.
I'm using 70Hz/24db on mids 65Hz/24db on subs with 13.5ms delay.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I decided to seal the area behind the 12m's. Up to this point they were basically IB. The area behind them was semi-enclosed with lots of gaps and open space into the dash. There was also some areas especially around the tweeter where the backwave could leak through to the front.

Because of space constraints i couldn't build a box or fit a PVC end cap and glassing it would've been too much work. So I decided to first stuff all the crevices and cracks with lots of polyfil then I lined the inside with deadener to make a sealed off enclosure while also walling off the tweeter from the midrange. After that I mounted the speaker baffle back on and sealed it to the enclosure with more deadener. Now I have nice little enclosures for the 12m's. A rough guess on volume is about a liter give or take a bit. Which is right around what the 12m likes. 

So the end result is that it definitely improved how the speakers sound, especially in the lower midrange output. The first song I listened to was my one of my go to tracks, Pink floyd Another brick in the wall and the improvement was pretty apparent right off the bat. Even though I have them crossed at 300Hz the perception is a lot of midbass up on the dash and clarity has improved a bit as well.

Not much to look at in this pic but you get the idea.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I've been tuning the past couple of weeks whenever I had spare time, usually 30 minutes here and there. I decided to redo my t/a based on tape measure to the tip of the mic instead of doing it by ear. I also changed my curve a little bit and wanted to see how pretty I could get it. End result I think looks good and it doesn't sound half-bad. Lining up both sides like this has reduced smearing, improved dynamics, center focus and clarity. Pretty happy with the way it sounds but I'm always looking to improve it if I can.
Here's a screenshot of 1/3 octave RTA. Green line is left side and magenta is right. Measured at the center of head rest. I tried to place the mic the same distance from the head rest and same height as if the mic was right between my ears.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I like this build a lot. What crossover points have you messed with? Seems like there is a lot of overlap in the usable ranges of these drivers.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks. You're right there's some room to play with in the xover ranges. Currently i'm running 
60 on the subs
65 - 275 midbass
350 - 2800 mids
2800 tweets
all LR4

With the amps I'm using I'm limited to 500hz xover on the midbass but I don't need to run them that high with the 4.5" mids in the dash. I could run the 12m's lower, and have, but don't see much benefit in it. The gap between them is because there's extra output in that range. I really like the sub / midbass / lower midrange integration in this car. I think sounds incredible. The midrange / tweet xover could be brought down a bit but it sounds nice where it is. One thing about up firing windshield reflection is that the speakers behave more like they're on-axis than not.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

As I was typing my last post I realized it had been awhile since I actually tried different crossover settings and some of my install has changed since. So today while I was adjusting amp / dsp gains to reduce some noise floor issue I ldecided to try lowering the xover points and retune. I like these settings better and the mids are sounding smoother.
65 - 225 midbass
250 - 2250 mids
2250 - up tweets


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## FouierSeries (Feb 8, 2016)

oh my god...


another member from minneapolis, lol

stay off e hennepin w/ that whip. & how in the world??? it's like 3 degrees outside & blowing sideways


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

Such a sexy car. Great job with the install. Equipment is equally fantastic. Love that all factory locations are being utilized. Color me jealous!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

So it's been about 5 months now since I started this build, about a week or two of it was actual component installation and the rest of my spare time has been spent tuning. This is my 3rd car with a full active system. Serious car audio started about 4 years ago for me by that I mean delving into fully active 3-way with DSP systems. Along the way there has been countless components, speakers, mounting locations and iterations. Each car has it's own challenges and obstacles to overcome all while trying to learn and grow along the way. This system has been no exception. I have put many, many hours into it and I can finally say that I'm at a point where I really like the way it sounds, enough so that I think I'm done for awhile. Time to put away the USB cable and laptop and just enjoy the fruits of my labor, enjoy the music without analyzing or nit picking it. After all that was the whole point of upgrading the factory system. It's nice to listen to songs in their entirety without the urge to skip to the next track to analyze it. 

A little more background information with this car. It took me awhile to get a good sounding baseline curve some of it due to having to work with the factory HU/Amp. There was a bit of extra effort to get a good summed full range signal to work with out of the factory amp I ended up using the front and rear doors as well as the sub. Because there's a factory center channel using the dash mids as part of the signal source wasn't ideal with my components. So after getting all that sorted out there is the typical phasing and T/A issues that have to be addressed with any new system.

Finally with level matched L+R and good basic curve with the help of the RTA I tuned the rest by ear. I spent much time on the mid bass and upper midrange areas to get it sounding to my liking. My reference are a simple logitech Z-560 THX system in a 2.1 setup that I've had for over 10 years and a pair of Audio Technica M50x's. I think my car as it stands is comparable in many ways to those and even excels in certain areas. Given that I'm using the stock HU and factory speaker locations I can say that I'm very happy with the results I've achieved. 
It's easy to get sucked into this hobby and spend enormous amounts of time, energy and money pursuing audio bliss. It can be a lot like a black hole so for now I'll be moving on to other interests. Thanks to all those that have commented and encouraged along the way with this build.


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

Just picked up an IS today! Where'd u go for pinouts on the factory wiring harness at the factory amp?


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Congrats on the new ride! I still love mine and get tons of compliments. About the wiring I can send you PM.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I've been wanting to find out how the oem non-ML system produces the center channel and what type of signal is sent to the rear speakers. I thought it was a stereo signal but wasn't 100% sure if there was some sort of upmixer or delay going on. But thanks to the good people and info on this site I got the knowledge and resources to find out. 
So today I connected the speakers back up to the factory amp to see what's what. While I had the factory system hooked up I also took RTA measurements of each channel directly from the amp. Up to this point I've been summing the Sub, front and rear doors and based on the analysis I did today I still think it's probably the best route for summing the signals from this factory system. A relatively flat summed input signal can be achieved without needing to boost any input frequencies. 
What I found interesting was that the front door frequency response (green line) I got from the factory amp closely matches my tune that I dialed in by ear.

Here's the analysis of the factory system.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

In case anybody is interested Here's the wiring pin out of the factory amp (from amp to speakers).

Left Front door (+/-) red - black (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 4 - 19)
Left Front dash (+/-) white - pink (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 12 - 27)
Right Front door (+/-) blue - black (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 5 - 20)
Right Front dash (+/-) beige - pink (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 13 - 28)
Left Rear door (+/-) beige- pink (Amp white 30 pin plug, pins 14 - 29)
Right Rear door (+/-) lt. green - white (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 15 - 30)
Center channel (+/-) gray - purple (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 7 - 22)
Subwoofer (+/-)	gray - blue (Amp 30 pin plug, pins 6 - 21)


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

It's been awhile since I've logged in or posted on the site but that hasn't kept me from tuning and enjoying my system. A while back I swapped out the mosconi 6to8v8 with a Helix DSP Pro. Despite not supporting the Quad HD display resolution of my laptop I really like how much easier the Helix is to use. With swapping the DSP I also changed which input channels I'm using from my factory amp. Just the L+R channels of the front door is all I need. They're full range signals after all. 

A little update on the speakers. I have about a 1.5 years of use out of the Scanspeaks, about 10 months in this car, so I thought it would be a good time to pull the midbass drivers out of the doors to see how they look. These are paper cone version of the 18wu. As you can see looks great. and they still sound fantastic as well.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

After spending a lot of time listening and tuning my system these past few months I realized that I just wasn't completely satisfied with it. It sounded good but not at the level I want. I think I've takend the tuning far enough to come to the realization that it's the stock HU/Amp and possibly install that's holding me back. 
So how to fix it? .. first get a clean, unadulterated source signal. That means bypassing the OEM HU and post-amp signal. Problem is there's not much room in my car to just add aftermarket HU in the dash. So it was time to get a little creative. I picked up an 80prs, put the chassis in the glove box and extended the faceplate to a location in the console where the seat heater controls were. I'll probably move those controls to the center console compartment.


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## bicycle_wreck (Sep 1, 2011)

That headunit relocation is great.

Are you feeding the stock head unit/amp into the aux in of the Pioneer to get nav voice and all that jazz, or is the stock amp pretty much just unhooked?

Also, are you using the Pioneer for any of the processing or just running a clean signal to your old DSP? I figure if you're running 3-way active you must still be using the old DSP, but I figured I'd ask.

Also, any more pics of the head unit relocation and face plate mounting?

Also-also, what's behind that panel _above where you put the face plate? Just wondering if you considered mounting there rather than moving your heated/cooled seat controls. I must say, though, the current mounting point is at a better angle.

Great job on the whole thing. Very cool._


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

bicycle_wreck said:


> That headunit relocation is great.
> 
> Are you feeding the stock head unit/amp into the aux in of the Pioneer to get nav voice and all that jazz, or is the stock amp pretty much just unhooked?
> 
> ...


_

The stock amp is connected for the nav, phone, etc. Right now it's powering the center channel and the front L/R mid channels are connected to the rear doors. It does the job and sounds pretty good although volume isn't as loud. I may mount the factory midranges, they have closed backs, under the dash and connect them instead of using the rear doors. Or I've been considering going midrange / tweets in the a-pillars. If I did that I'll put the factory midranges back in the dash connected up to the factory amp.

Yep, i have the xovers bypassed in the 80prs and and flat signal to the Helix.

Right now the trim ring is basically sitting on some foam behind the faceplate. I need to come up with a permanent solution. I have a sheet of abs plastic that i'll probably use to make a small enclosure around the face plate.

I looked at different options for mounting the HU before settling on the current spot. My first choice was going to be where you mentioned but part of the factory HU is behind it so there's no room. I even considered redoing the hvac vents / clock area. I think the whole 80prs chassis would fit in there. The air ducts would need to be rerouted and the vents would need to be modified to be smaller but that seemed like a lot of work. 
The whole area behind the hvac controls is empty but relocating those controls and switches wouldn't be feasible.

Initially I mounted the faceplate flush with console like the seat heater buttons were but once I drove around i quickly realized that the sun light was completely washing out the displaym because the angle was too horizontal. So I pulled the faceplate back out and mounted it at more vertical. The angle actually matches how the factory HU area slopes down.

Here's some pics of the install.

Yep, that's the face plate case for the 80prs. It worked out good for my needs and it wasn't like i was going to use it as a carrying case. 
note: i also ended up later needing to use more hot glue than whats shown to hold it in place. 










top view.










Angled blocks of wood hot glued in place.



















I'll post up some pics of the trim ring mounting once I get it done._


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## bicycle_wreck (Sep 1, 2011)

Oh man, those pics are exactly what I was curious about. Great build. I love the ISx50 and have been looking at getting an RC350 sometime soon, so this build really piqued my interest.

Keep up the good work.


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## 1FinalInstall (Oct 13, 2013)

Looking good, very cool idea.


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## markn05 (Nov 8, 2010)

Really like the HU install your doing. I also have an 80prs that I am looking at relocating the face plate because of rear spacing in my dash. Have you run into any issues with extending and relocating the faceplate? Did you get another PCB board or just create your own wiring 'harness' to extend the connection?


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

bicycle_wreck said:


> Oh man, those pics are exactly what I was curious about. Great build. I love the ISx50 and have been looking at getting an RC350 sometime soon, so this build really piqued my interest.
> 
> Keep up the good work.


Cool. The RC350 center console layout looks to be pretty similar if not the same as the IS. What you'd probably find underneath the seat heater/ac switches is the the plastic tubing for the rear HVAC vents. With that out of the way it might be possible to fit the whole 80prs chassis in there. Doing just that crossed my mind for a minute but the thought of my children in the back seat sweating in the summer and shivering in the winter while I'm up front nice and cozy enjoying my tunes didn't seem like the right thing to do.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

markn05 said:


> Really like the HU install your doing. I also have an 80prs that I am looking at relocating the face plate because of rear spacing in my dash. Have you run into any issues with extending and relocating the faceplate? Did you get another PCB board or just create your own wiring 'harness' to extend the connection?


Technically extending the 80prs faceplate is a fairly straight forward process, just wire both ends contact to contact . I used 25 pin telco cat 3 cable that I had the nice thing about it is its the right size wire and each one individually color coded. However, the issue I had was underestimating the difficulty in soldering 20 little 24awg wires that close together. If your somebody that doesn't solder very much like me I'd recommend practicing and brushing up before hand. I also recommend a good iron with fine tip, good thin solder, tip cleaner, holder etc. Everything you would need because it can be a tedious process and you want it to go as smooth as possible. I just jumped into it and ended up ruining the contacts on the chassis side PCB on my first attempt. But thanks to another forum member he pointed me to a website that sells 80prs parts and I was able to pick up a new one for around $35. Once I got the technique down it wasn't too bad. After the wires are in place use some hot glue around the contacts and wires to keep any of it from moving or coming apart.


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## markn05 (Nov 8, 2010)

Awesome, thanks for the info. That was the route I was going to take but will need to practice up on my soldering. Did you get the PCB from Pacparts?


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

yes that's it.


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