# JL Audio Thin-Line Subwoofers



## Pb2theMax

I knew that these JL Audio "Flat" (shallow mount) subwoofers have been in the plans for a while, but I figured they were just comparable competition for the other flat subwoofers from Pioneer, Clarion, Rockford, Kicker, etc. And usually these flat subwoofers have pretty mediocre performance because they are limited by how they have to be built, and this is why I don't have any of these "flat" subwoofers in my truck. But these JL Audio Thin-Line TW5 subwoofers from JL Audio appear to be taking flat subwoofers to a new level. I think these subs will really open up some doors for those of us who want powerful bass, but are limited to building a shallow sub enclosure.

I talked to Steve Duffield, the Technical Support Manager at JL Audio. He told me a lot about these new subs. And I was really surprised by some of the specs. These woofers appear to put all other “flat” woofers to shame. The TW5 subs have a stronger motor than the equal size W7 subwoofers!  I believe all previous flat subwoofers have a stamped steel frame. The TW5s have a cast aluminum frame. The voice coil is huge (7”dia.). The TW5s are rated at 500 watts for the 12" and 600 watts for the 13.5". The Xmax is greater than any other flat sub, and it's also greater than lots of conventional build subwoofers too. And they do this all while being shallower than any other flat sub. Fitting these in any truck should be easy, even regular cabs. The enclosure air volume they require is less than most other flat subwoofers too. According to Steve, the TW5s are going to have about the same output as the W3v3 and have the sound quality of a W6v2.

A lot of work and research appears to have gone into making these subs, and I really look forward to trying one out. I've owned lots of JL Audio products in the past and I've always been impressed. I think these new Thin-Line subs will be impressive as well. I plan on getting a 13TW5 as soon as it's available in April.



http://mobile.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=213

MSRP's of $450 and $550. Street prices should be lower.


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## Oliver

Flat subwoofer = kewl

Flat girls = model


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## Infinity

I'm keeping an eye on those 12's


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## dawgdan

But even with shallow depth, will the basket still clear the crossmember on the back wall of our cabs without cutting? AFAIK, that's the problem with most other thin mount 12" subs, so I can't imagine going up to a 13.5".

I'd love to have more bass than my single 10" Lotus can put out.


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## Pb2theMax

dawgdan said:


> But even with shallow depth, will the basket still clear the crossmember on the back wall of our cabs without cutting? AFAIK, that's the problem with most other thin mount 12" subs, so I can't imagine going up to a 13.5".
> 
> I'd love to have more bass than my single 10" Lotus can put out.


They're only 2.5" deep. I think every truck should have at least that much room behind the seats. Behind my seats I've got about 3" of room at the top of the enclosure and 6" at the bottom, so they will fit no problem. I think most other flat subs are 3" deep or deeper.


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## Pb2theMax

BTW, the excursion on the TW5s is 0.72”. Most of the other manufactures do not spec out the Xmax, hmmm....I wonder why. The manufactures that do tell their Xmax have less than .5" of excursion.


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## dawgdan

Street price on these is going to be in the $500 range, methinks...


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## Pb2theMax

Pb2theMax said:


> MSRP's of $450 and $550. Street prices should be lower.


^posted below the pic.


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## Ge0

Pb2theMax said:


> BTW, the excursion on the TW5s is 0.72”. Most of the other manufactures do not spec out the Xmax, hmmm....I wonder why. The manufactures that do tell their Xmax have less than .5" of excursion.


I had high hopes for the new JL subs for my application. However, the specs don't work out in their favor. Sure they are the thinest, but...

My Fosgate shallow mount P3SD210 (soon to be a P3SD212) has a 13.5mm xmax. The JL has a 9.1mm xmax. I expected more from the JL. I see no real benefit spending the additional money and going with it. 

And just for the record. The Fosgate subs have pretty decent construction. Including the cast aluminum basket. However, they are 1-1/2" deeper.

Considering I'm going from two 26mm xmax 12" beasts any shallow mount solution pales in comparison.

Ge0


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## Pb2theMax

Hmm. 13.5mm? I haven't really looked at the Rockford slims. I haven't bought any Rockford products in almost 10 years. 

It appears that their depth is a lot greater and their box volume requirements is higher too. I don't see where they posted Xmax numbers anywhere.


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## Sex Cells

Memphis is introducing some as well.


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## Ge0

Pb2theMax said:


> Hmm. 13.5mm? I haven't really looked at the Rockford slims. I haven't bought any Rockford products in almost 10 years.
> 
> It appears that their depth is a lot greater and their box volume requirements is higher too. I don't see where they posted Xmax numbers anywhere.


I haven't bought their stuff in quite a while either, until recently. Their image has suffered in my mind since going to Best Buy and others...

However, these subs aren't bad. To find X-Max you need to look in the user manual.

Ge0


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## Slick

The JL shallows are certainly breaking ground for shallow woofers, the guys at JL always seem to push the envelope, not copy it and change how it looks...it's a "get what you pay for" situation, these will have more performance than just about any shallow out there, but they're also 2-3x more expensive than the other shallows out there. 

George, the rockfords are 1.5" deeper? That's a world of difference in the world of shallow woofers  The JL is only 2.5" deep...that's 60% deeper. The rockfords are medium depth woofers in my book....


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## Pb2theMax

Ge0 said:


> Their image has suffered in my mind since going to Best Buy and others...


I agree. It would be really hard for me to install Rockford stuff in my truck anytime soon. I'd have to hear a really good demo.


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## Ge0

Slick said:


> The JL shallows are certainly breaking ground for shallow woofers, the guys at JL always seem to push the envelope, not copy it and change how it looks...it's a "get what you pay for" situation, these will have more performance than just about any shallow out there, but they're also 2-3x more expensive than the other shallows out there.
> 
> George, the rockfords are 1.5" deeper? That's a world of difference in the world of shallow woofers  The JL is only 2.5" deep...that's 60% deeper. The rockfords are medium depth woofers in my book....


Oops, I thought the JL's were 2" deep. That would make the Rockfords only 1" deeper . The Rockford sub is an OK performer. Could be better.

Seriously though. I would love to use one of the JL shallow mounts. I think it would fit my application well.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184192&postcount=1

I'd just like to get a warm and fuzzy that I would gain a leap in performance. You're a pretty clever installer. Take a look at my setup. What would you do? Mind you, I need the cargo hold free for kid related stuff...

Ge0


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## LiquidClen

Havent read the whole thread, but these woofers look VERY impressive... I honestly want to grab about 8 and do a semi-wall or full wall in my truck


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## Slick

I'll PM you George, so we don't totally steal the thread


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## Pb2theMax

This is what I found. 

The Rockford 12” P3 “Shallow” has a mounting depth of 3.625”, has an Xamx of 0.52”, power handling is 400watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 1.0cu.ft.(sealed). 

The JL Audio 12TW5 “Thin-Line” has a mounting depth of 2.5”, has a Xmax of 0.72”, power handling of 500watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 0.625cu.ft.(sealed).

So, the 12TW5 is 1.13” thinner, has 0.2” more excursion, has 100watts more power handling and requires 0.38cu.ft. Less air volume.

There is not a lot of info on the Memphis Sclass Subwoofers. The only specs that they offer is power (400watts) and mounting depth (3.0”), the other specs really do not mean anything on their own. They have chosen not to spec the Xmax, nor do they have any enclosure info. 

Also the TW5s are built in USA (Florida). I like to support American workers whenever I can.


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## LiquidClen

Pb2theMax said:


> This is what I found.
> 
> The Rockford 12” P3 “Shallow” has a mounting depth of 3.625”, has an Xamx of 0.52”, power handling is 400watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 1.0cu.ft.(sealed).
> 
> The JL Audio 12TW5 “Thin-Line” has a mounting depth of 2.5”, has a Xmax of 0.72”, power handling of 500watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 0.625cu.ft.(sealed).
> 
> So, the 12TW5 is 1.13” thinner, has 0.2” more excursion, has 100watts more power handling and requires 0.38cu.ft. Less air volume.


I think I'll buy some Rockfords


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## dawgdan

Pb2theMax said:


> This is what I found.
> 
> The Rockford 12” P3 “Shallow” has a mounting depth of 3.625”, has an Xamx of 0.52”, power handling is 400watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 1.0cu.ft.(sealed).
> 
> The JL Audio 12TW5 “Thin-Line” has a mounting depth of 2.5”, has a Xmax of 0.72”, power handling of 500watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 0.625cu.ft.(sealed).


 

According to the respective sites, regarding one-way Xmax, the JL has 9.1 mm and the RF has 10.8 mm. 

The 0.72" number might refer to peak-to-peak excursion..


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## CMR22

The smaller enclosure would make a difference in my decision making process but would the difference in xmax make an audible difference? Since I don't play test tones, power handling would not be a deciding factor for me. 

Price would be however and it appears there is a very substantial difference.


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## 60ndown

a neibours son has a pioneer 10 thin sub in his truck, sounds very good imo.


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## Dangerranger

With JL's most recent offerings being designed with one of the best FEA packages in the industry I'd trust their that their motor design would be a lot more linear than the stuff that Fosgate has been putting out recently, or ever for that matter.

The motor would have to be REALLY strong to get a 12" sub to perform optimally in a .625 cu ft. enclosure. Wonder what the Qes, Qts, BL specs are on those?? Talk about a wicked front stage, you could squeeze this thing into a custom fiberglass sealed door panel no problem, the thing is thinner than most midbass drivers. Do that, put the mids in kicks, tweeters up top and you'll have a beastly front stage


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## Ge0

dawgdan said:


> According to the respective sites, regarding one-way Xmax, the JL has 9.1 mm and the RF has 10.8 mm.
> 
> The 0.72" number might refer to peak-to-peak excursion..


YES. Exactly. The .72" number people have been touting is peak to peak excursion. Not X-MAX.

Ge0


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## BigRed

Just checked this thread here......I listened to the jl mustang with 3 12's shallow subs.....pretty damn impressive. the were smooth with great impact, and went extremely low


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## osamu

so my 10" exile's would have 20mm peak to peak = ~.78" . and the 12" would have .94" peak to peak. Too bad i've yet to even try them. 


the JLs do intrigue me. The motor design is unlike anything else, so i'm really curious how it will perform. I noticed a lot of 'thin' subs are just kinda short, but inheritly the exact same design as any other sub. 

if they are as good as they claim (sq comparable to the w6), and I was extremely limited by space (or had a lot of money) or if I wanted to stick some in my doors, I'd definitely give them a shot.


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## Neil

Less Xmax, perhaps, but likely more efficient...more output until the driver is no longer linear.

I feel the JL Audio offering is the best yet of this type but will hold judgement until they're out and we know more.


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## unpredictableacts

I wonder when Image Dynamics will release a slim woofer.


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## JoeHemi57

don't forget the diamonds...

http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/170/188/


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## goodstuff

Hic said:


> Flat subwoofer = kewl
> 
> Flat girls = model


Don't forget flat response.


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## selftc

Pb2theMax said:


> They're only 2.5" deep


gonna try a pair in your front doors pb ? we have just over 3" without modding door panel. up front bass ftw ! ! !

2.5" is crazy shallow for sub. specs. look great, but msrp still seems steep.


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## Infinity

JoeHemi57 said:


> don't forget the diamonds...
> 
> http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/170/188/




They're shallow on mounting depth, but then you have front motor protrusion to contend with also.


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## HondAudio

I think the 12" will be able to utilize the storage cubby in the back of my Scion xB without rising past the line of the trunk floor \o/


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## CrossFired

Might be a good SQ woofer but from the specs, they seem to need a large volume, .6 and .75! My boston subs need .3 and my Kicker shallow is IB and sound great for a single 12" at a cost of $60.

I'll still try the JL when ever it comes out. I'll just need to make a really wide/tall shallow box for my Toy pu, to get the required volume.


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## tr0y_audi0

Sex Cells said:


> Memphis is introducing some as well.


Iv heard good roomerz
The only Slims Iv played with are the Clarion & Kicker
The Kicker had some nice output the clarion just kinda filled in nice..
Bob Morrow has a great review on the Clarion in car audio mag


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## GLN305

Pb2theMax said:


> This is what I found.
> 
> The Rockford 12” P3 “Shallow” has a mounting depth of 3.625”, has an Xamx of 0.52”, power handling is 400watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 1.0cu.ft.(sealed).
> 
> The JL Audio 12TW5 “Thin-Line” has a mounting depth of 2.5”, has a Xmax of 0.72”, power handling of 500watts(continuous) and requires an air volume of 0.625cu.ft.(sealed).
> 
> So, the 12TW5 is 1.13” thinner, has 0.2” more excursion, has 100watts more power handling and requires 0.38cu.ft. Less air volume.
> 
> There is not a lot of info on the Memphis Sclass Subwoofers. The only specs that they offer is power (400watts) and mounting depth (3.0”), the other specs really do not mean anything on their own. They have chosen not to spec the Xmax, nor do they have any enclosure info.
> 
> Also the TW5s are built in USA (Florida). I like to support American workers whenever I can.



Let's try and keep in mind that the 12TW5 has the cone area of a 10" and the 13.5 has the cone area of a 12", so comparisons need to be apples to apples. There is a thread on ECA that Manville Smith replied in pertaining to the new subs.


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## tyroneshoes

I still think as far as shallow mount subs go, I have the cream of the crop. 

There's nothing "shallow" sounding about this sub


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## DS-21

DevilDriver said:


> I feel the JL Audio offering is the best yet of this type but will hold judgement until they're out and we know more.


Be interesting to compare it to the old Phase Linear Aliante.


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## WLDock

tyroneshoes said:


> I still think as far as shallow mount subs go, I have the cream of the crop. There's nothing "shallow" sounding about this sub


At a list price of $925 that Critical Mass had better not only be the "cream" but the "Cats Meow" as well. Nice equipment dude! We are on the same page. I want to build a stealth system and I plan to pick up those same amps, was considering the Lotus or Seas mids, was considering a DVD/Nav unit or stock w/processor, and was maybe thinking of using a Shallow sub (Exile Audio) but might see if I could shoehorn the DIYMA into a small side pocket formed enclosure?



osamu said:


> so my 10" exile's would have 20mm peak to peak = ~.78" . and the 12" would have .94" peak to peak. Too bad i've yet to even try them.


I guess not a lot of people have heard about the Exile Audio products because they don't come up too much in flat sub posts. I think the XT12 has some decent specs for a flat sub and the price is not crazy. Would really like to know how these sound....may have to try one out?

EXILE AUDIO XTEC XT12
- Vacuum formed dustcap 
- Low profile rubber surround 
- Ultra rigid and light cone 
- Progressive linear spider 
- Inner stacked motor structure 
- Cast aluminum basket

- 300W RMS 
- 600W PEAK 
- Mounting depth: 3.5" (89mm) 
- Mounting diameter: 11" (279mm) 
- Overall diameter: 12.3" (312mm) 


TS Parameters 
- FS: 26.4Hz
- RE: 3.88 Ohms
- QMS: 7.41
- QES: .55
- QTS: .51
- VAS: 104.8 Liters
- MMS: 129.1 Grams
- CMS: 282 uM/Newton
- BL: 12.29 Tesla-M
- SPL: 87dB(1M/1W) 
- XMAX: 24mm Peak to Peak
0.6-1.0 cu ft Sealed


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## osamu

I would hope these JL's would be competing against the CM's, aliantes, and falstaff. I think these have much more radical designs, and obviously a lot of research went into them. And if it can compare to those, it would almost be a bargain . I'm really looking forward to someone trying them out. 

Seems like all the rest are the same basic sub design just with a thinner magnet and a smaller basket.


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## Oliver

http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-Quart-German...ryZ18803QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
MB Quart German RSH304 

Buy It Now Price: $117.99


KEY FEATURES: 
German engineered 
12" flat subwoofer 
800w Max power 
400w RMS Power 
Impedence : 2x4/1x8 ohms 
Polypropylene woofer 
Chasis depth from flange: 3.74" 
Cutting depth: 0.55" 
Cutting width 0.61" 
Cut out dia : 11.50"


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## King Nothing

Hic said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-Quart-German...ryZ18803QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> MB Quart German RSH304
> 
> Buy It Now Price: $117.99
> 
> 
> KEY FEATURES:
> German engineered
> 12" flat subwoofer
> 800w Max power
> 400w RMS Power
> Impedence : 2x4/1x8 ohms
> Polypropylene woofer
> Chasis depth from flange: 3.74"
> Cutting depth: 0.55"
> Cutting width 0.61"
> Cut out dia : 11.50"


I saw those on ebay. are they any good? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to the inverted motor structure?


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## Slick

I haven't used the Exile 12 but I've used the 10 several times and try to mention it on every shallow sub thread I see, it's a nice sub, no complaints here, I'm sure the 12 is also.


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## Pb2theMax

I think the magnet on that MB quart would hit my seat. That thing sure is ugly.


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## Pb2theMax

The 13tw5's are now shipping out to dealers.


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## Fast1one

Surprised no one has mentioned the Tang Band

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-862

78 bucks > 500 

It is a little deeper, but still


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## alphakenny1

Fast1one said:


> 78 bucks > 500


what math class have you taken in your life to have the above statement true ?


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## Fast1one

alphakenny1 said:


> what math class have you taken in your life to have the above statement true ?


Hehe, was waiting for that...

Finished multi-variable last quarter  Basic math = out the window


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## fredridge

I think this is a true statement when applied to cash going out of your account 



alphakenny1 said:


> what math class have you taken in your life to have the above statement true ?


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## alphakenny1

Fast1one said:


> Hehe, was waiting for that...
> 
> Finished multi-variable last quarter  Basic math = out the window


engineer eh? hated that crap. differentials is so much easier, lol.


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## Fast1one

fredridge said:


> I think this is a true statement when applied to cash going out of your account


Haha nice...



alphakenny1 said:


> engineer eh? hated that crap. differentials is so much easier, lol.


Yup, I am in linear analysis right now, linear 2 next quarter, which is basic differential equations and linear algebra...


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## DonutHands

sill waiting for shallow 15s


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## Toxis

JL has a 13.5"... pretty close!


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## Whiterabbit

internecine said:


> sill waiting for shallow 15s


wait no longer!

http://www.phase-linear.de/produkte.asp?p=subwoofer&view=detail&grp=6&ser=44&nr=1360112&lang=EN

If that is too expensive, check out the earthquake sws line. They make an ultra shallow 15" too.


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## HondAudio

LiquidClen said:


> Havent read the whole thread, but these woofers look VERY impressive... I honestly want to grab about 8 and do a semi-wall or full wall in my truck


The wall might be thin enough to be able to fold down


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## Infinity

Whiterabbit said:


> wait no longer!
> 
> http://www.phase-linear.de/produkte.asp?p=subwoofer&view=detail&grp=6&ser=44&nr=1360112&lang=EN
> 
> If that is too expensive, check out the earthquake sws line. They make an ultra shallow 15" too.



Has anyone ever actually USED an SWS? They've been advertised for years, but I've never seen one, or seen a review on the boards- just a single magazine review.


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## dyno

Whiterabbit said:


> wait no longer!
> 
> http://www.phase-linear.de/produkte.asp?p=subwoofer&view=detail&grp=6&ser=44&nr=1360112&lang=EN
> 
> If that is too expensive, check out the earthquake sws line. They make an ultra shallow 15" too.


Goddam...I open the page and expect Dieter to jump out


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## chuyler1

So would these be any good I.B.? It would free up a little more real estate in my rear-deck mounted setup.


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## zero7404

what Steve Duffield told me was that the 12" TW5's would be comparable in sound to a 10W6v2 and require about the same enclosure volume.

given that i have a prowedge with 2 10W6v2's in it, i would definitely jump on 2 12 TW5's IF THAT WAS THE CASE. i will first listen very carefully at my stereo shop before i decide to put down serious bacon to have an ultra compact fiberglass enslosure built for 2 of these thinlines.

as it stands, my prowedge is amazingly compact for those large W6's, i would imagine a new enclosure for 2 TW5 12's can be even thinner, maybe 4-5" max box width ? if that were the case, that would be ideal for trunk space.

regardless, i'm still very impressed by the fit of the Prowedge i have in my trunk. i think it was made for my car specifically. call it an unstealthed-stealth box.


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## HondAudio

I wanted to buy the 12" but then I read and they're 3 ohm  I cannot run 3 ohm mono on my 12 year old amps


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## Infinity

HondAudio said:


> I wanted to buy the 12" but then I read and they're 3 ohm  I cannot run 3 ohm mono on my 12 year old amps


Don't bet on it. What amps?


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## Pb2theMax

zero7404 said:


> what Steve Duffield told me was that the 12" TW5's would be comparable in sound to a 10W6v2 and require about the same enclosure volume.


Speaking of Steve Duffield, He died a couple weeks ago.  I don't know how. It's terribly sad though. He was a great guy, and he was a real asset to JL Audio.


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## ringo

I am almost tempted to offer up one of my 12" Aliantes to someone local (Chicago) for a side by side test comparision (with me watching mind you..). I won't have them installed for a few months.....


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## zero7404

Pb2theMax said:


> Speaking of Steve Duffield, He died a couple weeks ago.  I don't know how. It's terribly sad though. He was a great guy, and he was a real asset to JL Audio.


oh ****....i'm petrified right now. i used to shoot emails back and forth about some of this stuff. how did you find out ?

EDIT: i found a site with an article, says it was "apparently a heart attack".
that's so sad, when someone you know passes.


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## vactor

ringo said:


> I am almost tempted to offer up one of my 12" Aliantes to someone local (Chicago) for a side by side test comparision (with me watching mind you..). I won't have them installed for a few months.....


ot: great to see another fellow chicagoan on here. i'll be most happy to watch this test. i got some Aura shallow 8"s ... not in the same league though, but nice speakers nonetheless ...


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## ringo

vactor said:


> ot: great to see another fellow chicagoan on here. i'll be most happy to watch this test. i got some Aura shallow 8"s ... not in the same league though, but nice speakers nonetheless ...


I have some Illusion ND-8s also.... I can see it now...

"Battle of the Shallow Drivers" said by that "lets get ready to rumble' guy....


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## newtitan

I see three 13.5's in my future


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## skater

Newtitan "I see three 13.5's in my future"

I am seriously considering them too. If I could find them they probably would be in transit to my house now. (3) 13tw5-4 hidden under my Tundra DC seat. Big smiles.

I do like how tight and loud these 8's are, but would definitely say goodbye to my Premiers...


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## Fervach224

Nice, you can actually stick it INSIDE the seat!!!


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## vmaxnc

I'm looking forward to the 12.5 when they're available.


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## Pb2theMax

Here's a TW5 being built.


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## HondAudio

Infinity said:


> Don't bet on it. What amps?


I didn't want to post too soon out of respect for Steve 

Anyway, uh, I was planning to use my old PPi a200.2 (or possibly my a300.2) but those won't do lower than 4 ohms mono


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## Infinity

HondAudio said:


> I didn't want to post too soon out of respect for Steve
> 
> Anyway, uh, I was planning to use my old PPi a200.2 (or possibly my a300.2) but those won't do lower than 4 ohms mono


I actually ran some A600.2's at 2 ohm mono for quite some time, and PPI's were exactly what I was thinking when I mentioned it. They did get warm, but I'd bet with impedence rise the 3 ohm coils wouldn't be an issue. Maybe see if JL can provide an impedence curve.


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## mikemareen

any more update on this 12" TWS ? 2.5" deep with the same spl as a 10" w3v3 would be freaking crazy amazing if true as JL claims.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was true, these flat subs definitely look like nothing else and a real method to the madness in the design.

all the other wannabee flat subs like fosgate, mb quart, diamond, etc are all standard subs with pushed up motors-magnets. Nothing really new, if a company like "earthquake" can make it then just about anyone else can. 3.5" to 4" is not much compared to your standard 10" with your average 4.5" to 5" basket.

but 2.5" with power handling and spl of a 10" w3v3 ? this is ground breaking.


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## Pb2theMax

I'm in talks with JL Audio's PR person. I think I've got a 13TW5 coming my way. I'll post a review ASAP, if I get one.


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## hobie1dog

Looks like the Stereo Integrity's new BM woofer will outperform this one...more linear travel, at 1/3 the price, and if it sounds like their other products, then it will have tighter bass too. Their Mag woofer redifined what JL thought "tight" was all about. That W7 was a "boomy little sucker".

From thier forum:

The new BM will be available in 12" only.
It will also be available in dual 4 Ohm vc configuration only.

Recommended sealed enclosure volume is 0.5 cubic feet.

The enclosure recommendations are after port and driver displacement. The new BM will displace ~0.07 ft^3

2.5" VC
XBL^2 equipped motor
3.5" mounting depth
Motor housed inside the basket
Aluminum shorting ring
The cone will be a rohacel core sandwiched between two layers of Nomex
Inverted foam surround for maximum clearance
Flush gasket (no holes showing)
500 watt power handling (read, power handling, NOT a power requirement. The new BM will be happy with anything from 200 watts to 500 watts)


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## stratusrt01

hobie1dog said:


> Looks like the Stereo Integrity's new BM woofer will outperform this one...more linear travel, at 1/3 the price, and if it sounds like their other products, then it will have tighter bass too. Their Mag woofer redifined what JL thought "tight" was all about. That W7 was a "boomy little sucker".
> 
> From thier forum:
> 
> The new BM will be available in 12" only.
> It will also be available in dual 4 Ohm vc configuration only.
> 
> Recommended sealed enclosure volume is 0.5 cubic feet.
> 
> The enclosure recommendations are after port and driver displacement. The new BM will displace ~0.07 ft^3
> 
> 2.5" VC
> XBL^2 equipped motor
> 3.5" mounting depth
> Motor housed inside the basket
> Aluminum shorting ring
> The cone will be a rohacel core sandwiched between two layers of Nomex
> Inverted foam surround for maximum clearance
> Flush gasket (no holes showing)
> 500 watt power handling (read, power handling, NOT a power requirement. The new BM will be happy with anything from 200 watts to 500 watts)



Given Stereo Integrity's past reputation, I would expect the new BM to be a stellar performer as well. Can't wait to get my hands on the new Magnum.


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## alphakenny1

any idea when SI will ship out the new mag and bm?


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## DonutHands

anyone ever use these shallow subs IB?


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## hobie1dog

alphakenny1 said:


> any idea when SI will ship out the new mag and bm?


I think it will be towards the end of May.


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## alphakenny1

thats sweet. I listened to the old mags before and was very impressed. I like the mounting depth and the small enclosure requirement of the new mags.


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## Whiterabbit

internecine said:


> anyone ever use these shallow subs IB?


IB, sealed, and AP, yes.

IB was definitely the loosest performer, but a definite higher efficiency.
Sealed was pretty close, all things said and done. sounded "more controlled" but I dont think the frequency response was there. IB wasn't any better, for the record.
AP was an awakener. Huge impact to efficiency (read: sucks) but the frequency response by far was the best. 

What I ended up doing was loosening the AP vent to introduce greater (IB-like) efficiency while trying to minimize damage to the FR (40 Hz "IB spike") as a result of the same.

Now that it's been this way for awhile, I think I'd like to try a heavier AP mat. To forget about efficiency and not worry about the bottom octave (EQ'ed out in my car as it is anyways) and gain-compensate. With a 12 or 10" shallow woofer, I would be more likely to maintain the thinner vent to prevent 20 Hz dropout.

However this blurb depends on some information: That by using the word "these" you meant "any". And as liner notes, the install is a small (1-1.5 cubic foot) enclosure with a vent to the outside of the vehicle that is either sealed, left open, or fitted with an AP vent for experimentation.


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## Pb2theMax

I finally worked out a deal with JL. I should be getting a 13tw5 in a few days, to review.


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## Ge0

Three shops I visited in metro Detroit today have the 13tw5 in stock. I nearly bought one. Still might... However, the 12tw5 would work better for me. It would require less modification to my vehicle and provide the output I desire. 

A dealer and I talked to the regional sales rep today to inquire about the status of 12tw5 deliveries. Unfortunately JL is having problems getting the smaller subs right. They estimate start of production on the 12tw5 in October. Mind you this is just their best guess at this point. The sales rep said don't expect to see them on the shelves until the turn of the year.

****. I was really counting on grabbing one of these suckers. Has me pondering a 13tw5 more and more.

Ge0


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## Pb2theMax

Did you take a look at it? Too bad they couldn't demo it for you.


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## Whiterabbit

of course you'd want the 13. be the only one on the diyma block sporting a flat huge subwoofer.


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## Ge0

Whiterabbit said:


> of course you'd want the 13. be the only one on the diyma block sporting a flat huge subwoofer.


That's not real important to me. 

I'm not a bass head but do want a good performing sub. 

Ge0


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## Kenny_Cox

Mr. Ge0 how much was the sub at the dealer?


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## Ge0

Kenny_Cox said:


> Mr. Ge0 how much was the sub at the dealer?


About $100 less than MSRP

Ge0


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## Powers

The 12" would be great for my car, but I forsee the sub will sound similar to the stock 8".


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## newtitan

heres one for 400 (OH MY THEY ARE COSTLY LOL)

in orange county, CA 


http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/630525707.html


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## captainobvious

SO did anyone pick one up yet? I'd love to get a review of it...finally...


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## agentk98

Pb2theMax said:


> Speaking of Steve Duffield, He died a couple weeks ago.  I don't know how. It's terribly sad though. He was a great guy, and he was a real asset to JL Audio.


Sad to hear this.  I didn't even realize he was head tech eng at JL since he answered my emails quickly. I would think one of his assistant engineers would handle that for him.


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## s60rguy

From a week ago:

K, so I got to hear the 2 13's in the Silverado today and WOW...they totally blew me away. They can dig just as low as a conventional subwoofer. The installer demo'd it with an IASCA CD on a Bass track and these puppies were digging deep into the 20's and sounding as clean / clear / tight as can be. They had 1 JL A1800 powering both of them. 

To me, they have the tightness and accuracy of a REALLY good 10 or 12 but can go as low as a 15 with ease.


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## chad

What size enclosure were they in? Was there any processing?


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## Whitebread

Anyone try these in Infinite Baffle?


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## 60ndown

bone-bone-bone


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## captainobvious

A JL dealer near me has the 13 in stock but said they require a "custom" box due to the irregular size of the driver, so they dont have any setup to audition in the showroom. (Apparently they are just using prefab boxes in that area...I would have built one considering the cost of the W7 and thinlines, but thats just me...)
Anyway, he said it plays somewhere between the W3 and W6's. Has very tight response and still has good output (along the lines of the W3)

I still want to hear one though.

C'mon, someone must have one that can do a good review for us!


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## Pb2theMax

I FINALLY got one. Sheesh. JL took forever to ship these out. 

I'll be installing it tomorrow. It'll need some break in time, but I'll let ya know how it performs on its initial run.


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## captainobvious

Sweet. Looking forward to the review


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## Oliver

Pb2theMax said:


> I FINALLY got one. Sheesh. JL took forever to ship these out.
> 
> I'll be installing it tomorrow. It'll need some break in time, but I'll let ya know how it performs on its initial run.


Take some pics !


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## Pb2theMax

So far This sub lives up to the hype. Its amazing how this sub can produce such low notes and be mounted in such a small enclosure, and the sub isn't even broke in yet. It sounds about like a 12W6 in a 2 cu. ft. enclosure. Job well done JL Audio. 

I'm powering it with a Kicker SX 1250.1, which should be around 600 watts at 3 ohms. It's in a .7 cu. ft sealed box. It doesn't touch the seats when they are in the upright position. 

I'll post some more details once it gets broken in more.


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## 328iBMW

^^^ Nice. Thanks for posting that.


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## msmith

Pb2theMax said:


> So far This sub lives up to the hype. Its amazing how this sub can produce such low notes and be mounted in such a small enclosure, and the sub isn't even broke in yet. It sounds about like a 12W6 in a 2 cu. ft. enclosure. Job well done JL Audio.
> 
> I'm powering it with a Kicker SX 1250.1, which should be around 600 watts at 3 ohms. It's in a .7 cu. ft sealed box. It doesn't touch the seats when they are in the upright position.
> 
> I'll post some more details once it gets broken in more.


Thanks for the comments! Glad you like the TW5.

I strongly recommend that you put a grille on that subwoofer. The same grille that fits the 13W1v2 and 13W3v3 fits the 13TW5. You can buy them direct if your dealer doesn't stock them.

http://store.jlaudio.com/product.php?productid=16190&cat=255&page=1

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


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## Pb2theMax

I might do that. There is about an inch of space between the seat and the surround. This sub has some pretty nice excursion though. 

The TW5s are great news for truck owners and vehicles with tight space. This sub raises the bar. The only thing hindering these from selling like crazy would be the price. IMO, this sub is worth the money, but $550 is a good chunk of change for a sub.


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## Infinity

I'm waiting for the smaller ones, as my space is slightly shorter, but wider. I can fit a pair of 10's easily. C'mon, Manville, make it happen.


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## PaulD

I don't know if this has been mentioned, and not going to read thru like 11 pages. This style/size of speaker would be awesome in an 8" version as a midbass driver.


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## msmith

The bad news is that a 10-inch (or 8-inch) is unlikely in this line. The large coil motor topology simply doesn't translate well to a smaller driver. We may do a shallow 10 in a different line using a different approach, but it probably won't be quite this shallow. 

The good news is that the 12TW5 will fit in a lot of places that a typical 10 will fit. The tab-ear frame compresses the effective diameter. As you can see in the photos posted by Pb2theMax, the 13.5-inch is only 13-inches across the narrowest point... the 12 will only be about 11.5 inches, not much bigger than some 10's.

Here's a graphic that shows the 13.5 compared to a 12W3v3:









Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


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## Ge0

msmith said:


> The bad news is that a 10-inch (or 8-inch) is unlikely in this line. The large coil motor topology simply doesn't translate well to a smaller driver. We may do a shallow 10 in a different line using a different approach, but it probably won't be quite this shallow.
> 
> The good news is that the 12TW5 will fit in a lot of places that a typical 10 will fit. The tab-ear frame compresses the effective diameter. As you can see in the photos posted by Pb2theMax, the 13.5-inch is only 13-inches across the narrowest point... the 12 will only be about 11.5 inches, not much bigger than some 10's.
> 
> Here's a graphic that shows the 13.5 compared to a 12W3v3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Manville Smith
> JL Audio, Inc.


So Mr. Smith, the golden question....

When will the 12TW5 be ready? I've heard there were some technical dificulties. I've also been anxiously awaiting and checking with my local dealers every couple of months or so.

Was darn close to buying the 13TW5 shortly after JL shipped the first batch but just couldn't see making it work in my application.

Ge0


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## Infinity

msmith said:


> The bad news is that a 10-inch (or 8-inch) is unlikely in this line. The large coil motor topology simply doesn't translate well to a smaller driver. We may do a shallow 10 in a different line using a different approach, but it probably won't be quite this shallow.
> 
> The good news is that the 12TW5 will fit in a lot of places that a typical 10 will fit. The tab-ear frame compresses the effective diameter. As you can see in the photos posted by Pb2theMax, the 13.5-inch is only 13-inches across the narrowest point... the 12 will only be about 11.5 inches, not much bigger than some 10's.
> 
> Here's a graphic that shows the 13.5 compared to a 12W3v3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Manville Smith
> JL Audio, Inc.


I just measured, and I can make a pair of those happen, if need be. Do they work well ported (or with a PR)?  I even have a seriously sweet home theater idea in the works.


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## msmith

The 12TW5 will likely ship in the Fall, not sure exactly what month yet. The TW5's have both been very challenging to finalize and build... they are not simple speakers to assemble and they have very tight part and build tolerances. We apologize for the delays, but we would rather be late than ship something that isn't quite right.

We have not recommended ported alignments for the TW5's primarily because they work in such small box volumes that porting them is very impractical (really long ports in small boxes are a pain)... so, although nothing in the T/S parameters suggests they are a bad ported box woofer choice, they are difficult to work with. A PR might be interesting, though.


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## benny z

held one of these in my hands the other day at my local shop.

it is a heavy mofo!

can't wait to hear it.


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## LiquidClen

These things would look so sexy reverse mounted....


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## Pb2theMax

I really like how the mounting holes are placed, and the gasket on the underside does a great job at making an air tight seal against the enclosure. 

I played some tones and gave the sub a real workout in the 18 to 45hz range. It did a good job at playing every note I asked it to.


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## DonutHands

msmith, how about IB with these things?


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## Ge0

benny z said:


> held one of these in my hands the other day at my local shop.
> 
> it is a heavy mofo!
> 
> can't wait to hear it.


I can't agree with you more. I was SOOO close to buying the 13tw5. But, I just couldn't swing it with my skills. I would have cost me an additional $1000 to have a professional custom mold an entire vehicle decorative trim panel for me to fit it. This exceeded my price point.

Ge0


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## msmith

internecine said:


> msmith, how about IB with these things?


No.... the TW5 would be a poor choice for IB, it is designed for very small sealed enclosures. Sorry.


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## Infinity

msmith said:


> No.... the TW5 would be a poor choice for IB, it is designed for very small sealed enclosures. Sorry.


What will be the "ideal" sealed enclosure for the 12? If you say .6 cubes, I think I just stimulated the economy


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## semipimpedauto

I saw one of these at a local instal place and it was stupidly thin for what kind of power it makes


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## msmith

Infinity said:


> What will be the "ideal" sealed enclosure for the 12? If you say .6 cubes, I think I just stimulated the economy


So, would 0.63 cu.ft. still work? That's the nominal volume we recommend. Depending on the vehicle, it can work well in as little as 0.55 cu.ft. (larger cabin) or as much as 0.70 cu.ft. (smaller cabin).

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


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## bobditts

btone911 said:


> I saw one of these at a local instal place and it was stupidly thin for what kind of power it makes


subs dont make power silly


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## msmith

bobditts said:


> subs dont make power silly


That's true, they just transduce it from one state to another... Truth be told, amps don't "make" power either, they waste it. 

Power really can't be made... discuss... (in another thread, please).


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## ErinH

msmith said:


> That's true, they just transduce it from one state to another... Truth be told, amps don't "make" power either, they waste it.
> 
> Power really can't be made... discuss... (in another thread, please).


110% efficiency FTW!


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## snaimpally

Will JLA eventually offer the sub with factory enclosure optimized for the sub?



msmith said:


> So, would 0.63 cu.ft. still work? That's the nominal volume we recommend. Depending on the vehicle, it can work well in as little as 0.55 cu.ft. (larger cabin) or as much as 0.70 cu.ft. (smaller cabin).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Manville Smith
> JL Audio, Inc.


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## captainobvious

That seems very improbable. The subs were designed to fit into very small spaces so I would think most applications are going to be custom boxes, under seats/behind seats, etc. so building a universal box that probably wont fit 90% of the applications seems counterproductive.
If you've got space for a prefab box, you likely have space to use a better sub for your application

just my .02


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## msmith

snaimpally said:


> Will JLA eventually offer the sub with factory enclosure optimized for the sub?


You can definitely expect some Stealthbox systems using the TW5's, for sure. We may do some universal products, none on the drawing boards yet, but you never know. We will also use a variant of the driver in an in-wall home subwoofer product.


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## Oliver

Those in-wall subwoofers should be nice !


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## 328iBMW

msmith (or anyone else ),

Please post pics/vids of the manufacturing.


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## msmith




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## rockytophigh

I've heard one....it's pretty good for what it is. Just not for my taste.


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## Pb2theMax

I'm lovin my 13TW5. It seems to get better and better as it gets more broke-in.


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## Oliver

Pb2theMax said:


> I'm lovin my 13TW5. It seems to get better and better as it gets more broke-in.


Sweeet !


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## aboof

msmith said:


> You can definitely expect some Stealthbox systems using the TW5's, for sure. We may do some universal products, none on the drawing boards yet, but you never know. We will also use a variant of the driver in an in-wall home subwoofer product.


How come there are no RSX (or Acura of any model) stealthboxes? I'd almost certainly buy one that fit the spare tire well or a couple of left/right hatch corner boxes. As someone without the tools, skills, or time to build a custom box but who is tired of a 1cf wedge taking up my hatch space, I am seriously considering buying a couple of eD SQ10s mainly just for the RSX stealth box they make for them.


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## Infinity

They used to have one that held 3x10's in the spare tire for an RSX.


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## aboof

Infinity said:


> They used to have one that held 3x10's in the spare tire for an RSX.


Are you thinking of one for an older Integra? I can't find any evidence of one for an RSX. Why'd you get my hopes up


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## Infinity

aboof said:


> Are you thinking of one for an older Integra? I can't find any evidence of one for an RSX. Why'd you get my hopes up


Yes I was, sorry. I found it while researching the wife's Jetta.


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## Dangerranger

msmith said:


> You can definitely expect some Stealthbox systems using the TW5's, for sure. We may do some universal products, none on the drawing boards yet, but you never know. We will also use a variant of the driver in an in-wall home subwoofer product.


Speaking of, I have a 98 Mustang GT (coupe). I currently have two 12W6v2s which I LOVE but the lack of trunk space is taking it's toll because gas going up means I need to cut back on using the truck for hauling smaller stuff. I've been torn between the stealthbox you offer for this model or getting a 13TW5 and custom glassing an enclosure for it. Obviously either way output is going to be cut quite a bit compared to the W6v2s and I'm perfectly OK with that, but I'd rather it be as efficient as possible output-wise with the space utilized....Realistically if I glassed the enclosure it wouldn't be as elaborate, sub would be facing outward mounted horizontally, versus the stealthbox being corner loaded more with it's slot loaded configuration, just wondering how far off they'd be in said scenario...


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## MLS

Anyone got the inside scoop on the 12tw5? Did JL stop development on this particular model?


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## ubp_sanity

I've just put a 13TW5 in my 99 Eclipse Spyder, put it between the seat and trunk, under where the top stows. Amps in there as well. A true stealth install. I'd post pics, but I don't have any, and besides, there's absolutely nothing to see.

Hearing it on the other hand, it's a truly amazing driver. Unfortunately, I'm hearing rattles that I never heard before with the single 12 W6 ProWedge that was in there before, that only means I'm either lower, or louder. Or both from the sounds of it.

George


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## HondAudio

MLS said:


> Anyone got the inside scoop on the 12tw5? Did JL stop development on this particular model?


^What he said. This one looked PERFECT for my application.


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## MXracer115

i've heard mixed reviews on this sub, IMO the RE SL 12 blows this sub away


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## GSlider

Its funny you should post these. Ive been considering one of these in my wifes Acura and maybe even a pair in my car. They look like their very well built, and I like the higher power handling factor even more.


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## ealvar

I recently went from an ID12v.3 in a 1.25ft^3 enclosure to a single eD SQ10 and was pleasantly surprised by the performance.

It's not a 12" and it's not as shallow as the new JL slims, but for the price the bang to buck ratio is pretty darn high.

Xmax is not the be-all end-all spec...


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## TG19

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum thing so if I sound dumb just bare with me. How much louder are the JL thins as opposed to the CVT's?


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## Ge0

TG19 said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to this forum thing so if I sound dumb just bare with me. How much louder are the JL thins as opposed to the CVT's?


Not much comparison's between the two on this forum. But you might want to try car audio dot com.

Ge0


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## tr0y_audi0

TG19 said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to this forum thing so if I sound dumb just bare with me. How much louder are the JL thins as opposed to the CVT's?


Louder? if your doing 12" to 13.5" about the same 
If your talking SQ the JL Hands Down
I like to set them up in pairs great output SQ is wonderful.
Not as (Boomy) as the CVT's 

I mat switch.. from my SE to the 13tw5.. not sure yet.. I got 4 instock


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## ChrisB

I wanted to glass one of these into the 8'' factory sub location in a 2007 350z but my buddy is in the process of getting another car now. He also has his mind set on the Morel Ultimo 10 to install in the G37 coupe that he is planning on purchasing.


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## VP Electricity

Full-on Ultimo or Ultimo SC?


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## joms

anyone tried putting this sub on a ported box? ive heard this in a sealed enclosure but the bass wasnt that loud. Will making the box bigger result in louder/deeper bass? perhaps 1cu or more?


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## diamondjoequimby

joms said:


> anyone tried putting this sub on a ported box? ive heard this in a sealed enclosure but the bass wasnt that loud. Will making the box bigger result in louder/deeper bass? perhaps 1cu or more?



it is not recommended for ported box applications


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## joms

yeah i understand that it isn't "recommended" as stated in the manual but isn't it also that most of the time, JL's "recommended" box spec doesn't even sound at par against customized box dimensions specifically made for the vehicle and used for real world application? Point is, JL's view is only recommendatory and might apply "generally". There might be an angle wherein ported would be better. 

Thus, i'd like to hear from people who have experimented with this sub specifically those who have used it in a ported enclosure.


----------

