# DSP Vs amp w/dsp



## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

Hey guys I'm new to using dsp's but a local dealer was trying to talk me into one recently so I decided to do some research. Can someone educate me on this technology? The way I'm understanding it is if I went active with an Audison bit one in my car that has 3 ways in front, 2 ways in back and a sub. I'll still need a quality amp to power these speakers and calibrate everything. So why not cut the bit one out and use quality amps with built in dsp? Won't I get the same quality with an extra $600-700 in my pocket? (I'd buy the bit one used)

I apologize but I'm new to dsp tech.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

most because the only company I know that makes an amplifier with a real DSP in it is zapco. If you want to go with zapco, cool beans, otherwise you are stuck with an outboard DSP.

also, I am not a fan of all-in-one solutions. if the dsp in the amplifier goes bad, you lose everything.


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## Jepalan (Jun 27, 2013)

minbari said:


> most because the only company I know that makes an amplifier with a real DSP in it is zapco. If you want to go with zapco, cool beans, otherwise you are stuck with an outboard DSP.
> 
> also, I am not a fan of all-in-one solutions. if the dsp in the amplifier goes bad, you lose everything.


^^^ Totally agree with this. 
Also, there are headunits with built in DSP processing (most notably Alpine and Pioneer). This can be another way to go -> get a good HU with built in DSP/time alignment and then add some solid amps and speakers.


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

The Kenwood x4r amps from a couple years ago had built in DSP, but finding a bunch of them and having to run to each amp to adjust it when you tune sounds like a huge waste and PITA. OP: is there any reason you chose the bit1? There's more reasonably priced processors out there that might suit your needs better. Also, you might want to reconsider the amount of speakers you are running if you plan to go active. Right now you're looking at a minimum of 11 channels of amplification and processing assuming when you say "3 ways" and "2 ways" you mean the "number of separate drivers" and aren't referring to coaxial or passively crossed-over speakers, in which case you won't get the full benefit of DSP anyway. If you are referring to passively crossed drivers, do what Jepalan suggests.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Also, DSPs are not created equal. You can't just use the term generically to compare to another option. It all depends on what your goals are and what you plan to use. There are some situations where it makes sense to get all in one, but in most cases, if you are looking at a DSP it's because you want the adjustability, in which case getting the separate unit makes sense.

Btw doesn't helix also make an all in one?


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

A lot of us guys and ladies, like to try different amps, different setup, I would only go with external DSP processing power, if the amp goes bad as one of the guys has mention it, you will be screwed and need to wait for the amp to get replaced or repaired. 

Arc Audio PS8, Alpine H800 + you will need C800 controller if you plan on using different head unit, Mosconi 6 to 8. and BitOne, and few others are out there... 
On top of that, most DSP processors have build in optical input for digital sound quality input. keep that in mind, if you ever want to go that route


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## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the system. Initially I started to add a sub in the trunk fender like ccDave did because it didn't sound that bad in my last car. My ultimate goal is to have a stock appearing SQ system on a budget. (>$2000) AND do it in stages. I'd like to keep the stock radio and interiors for now. I've read I can convert my HU's speaker signal from low to high with my Vagcom and make rca's to plug into the DSP. I think that's how the DSP got thrown into the mix. The dealer represents Audison and Hertz which is why I ran with that. His suggestion was to forget about replacing components and just run a Bit 1 to the stock speakers. If I get tired of it down the road I can swap speakers out. 

What it all boils down to I guess is what's the cheapest way to get the best sound. Probably something I should be posting in the system design section.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

The 3sixty.3 is the /endall for DSPs in my opinion and they can be had for $400.


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## michelh (Sep 23, 2013)

Broshi said:


> The 3sixty.3 is the /endall for DSPs in my opinion and they can be had for $400.


What about the Soundstream Synthesis (basically a MiniDSP with custom software)? Haven't tried it yet, but can be had for $400 as well.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

My preference would be to put crossover and EQ in the amplifiers and upmixing, summing and UN-EQ in a separate processor. That way, you aren't limited to system configurations or the number of channels available in the processor.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

michelh said:


> What about the Soundstream Synthesis (basically a MiniDSP with custom software)? Haven't tried it yet, but can be had for $400 as well.


The biggest thing that sets the 3sixty.3 above all others IMHO (including the BitOne) is the 31 band *parametric* EQ as well as the high level input and 8v out. The price is outstanding for it, and it's super easy to use (once you get the software from their site). Somewhere on this site was a spreadsheet of all DSPs. It wasn't entirely filled out, but when you looked at the data, you'd see that the 3sixty.3 either matches or outperforms in almost every way (minus a few negligible things).


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## Instaburn (Aug 22, 2013)

Where is the post on all the diff DSP'S ?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk now Free


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

If you don't have the amps yet I would definetly think about the Zapco DC reference amps with built in DSP. I wouldn't worry about if the amp goes you are out of luck. In an active system you will have more than one amp so if it goes you just rewire your system until the one can be repaired. They made a LOT of TV's with built in DVD and VHS players and people bought them. The 6 channel would be great!


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## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

Is this the thread you were talking about? http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...s-mosconi-6-to8-vs-helix-*ms8-whats-best.html 

The first spreadsheet posted is hard for me to read because the print is so small. 

I appreciate all the info guys. I think I'll just keep an eye out for amps and dsp's. If I find an incredible deal on something I'll let that chose my route. At least now I know what kind of equipment to look for.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

GotaCC said:


> Is this the thread you were talking about? http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...s-mosconi-6-to8-vs-helix-*ms8-whats-best.html
> 
> The first spreadsheet posted is hard for me to read because the print is so small.
> 
> I appreciate all the info guys. I think I'll just keep an eye out for amps and dsp's. If I find an incredible deal on something I'll let that chose my route. At least now I know what kind of equipment to look for.


That's the one. Here it is enlarged (unless the board automatically shrinks the photo size):










But yeah that spreadsheet right there proves that the 3sixty.3 is the choice to make as far as DSPs.


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## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

I think the board is shrinking the image but I just used the screen magnifier to read it. That 363 looks nice on paper. The Bit one is processing faster and has a better efficiency rating, other than that they seem really comparable. One thing I was confused about is the 363 says it has 8 ch. and a dedicated sub ch. Does that mean the sub ch is in addition to the 8 or part of the 8 essentially making it 9 ch.?


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## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

^^edit I just looked it up.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Hey this is CCdave, I used a different screen name on here. I just now realized that you have a cc. Lol

I think I understand what you are asking about now. I really disliked the factory speakers but I never really gave them a chance with real power.

You can get a JBL ms-8 and use the internal amp to power the factory speakers. If you like them then you'll still have the capability to add a sub and then you are done. If you don't like it then you can use the RCA outs and run a new amp and speakers (what I did).

From my understanding, there's no benefit audibly to converting the deck from high level (speaker) to low level (RCA) outputs. The ms-8 or any DSP for that matter take either speaker level or RCA level in. I hear that the output from the factory VW decks is pretty flat no matter the output level. I chose to leave it high level since I kept the factory rears connected to the deck. I just fade it to front usually.

I assume that you have a 2.0t model, so therefore no Dynaudio (based on you wanting to change from speaker level). If you have the Dyn system then what I said above might not apply.


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## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

lol yea I first noticed your build thread on the Vortex. I have a different name on there as well. (new2me) 

From your build it looks like you have 3-ways in the front and 2-ways in the rear with a sub. I'm not sure why I thought you were going with an active set-up. 

Looking at the MS-8 it says it puts out 20w @ 4 ohm which is the same as the stock HU. Did you use an adapter or make your own to get signal to the amps? I'm comfortable with making my own harness if I could find the plastic clips. 

Having 11 speakers I dont see how its possible to make the stock system an active setup. Can the speaker outputs be used in conjunction with the rca's? Right now I'm leaning toward the MS-8 because it has powered outputs to use until I pick up amps and replacement speakers.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Woah you two are on Vortex? Far out! What forum?? I'm a MkIV dude here. Still trying to get into a Bora since the relocate to NZ!


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## GotaCC (Sep 13, 2013)

I usually post in the community area, but visit the car stereo and of course OT for some daily humor. 

One day I hope to visit NZ, very cool! Is the move for work?


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

GotaCC said:


> I usually post in the community area, but visit the car stereo and of course OT for some daily humor.
> 
> One day I hope to visit NZ, very cool! Is the move for work?


Right on!! Always cool to catch a forum member from another forum I'm on! 

Hey if you ever visit, hit me up! I'm always down to take on visitors!! Catch me on FB bro. My name's Brandon Black!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

GotaCC said:


> lol yea I first noticed your build thread on the Vortex. I have a different name on there as well. (new2me)
> 
> From your build it looks like you have 3-ways in the front and 2-ways in the rear with a sub. I'm not sure why I thought you were going with an active set-up.
> 
> ...


i have recently gone active...but in the rear I am running factory speakers off the factory deck (when its faded on).

to get the signal I got a forward and reverse harness for VW off ebay, soldered up all leads straight through except the front speaker lines, where I ran them to the rear to my MS8. There is a better method used on here by some where you remove the speaker wire portion of the factory wire harness and replace it with a new one, that is run to the new destination.

On vortex i tend to frequent the CC specific forums, classified, car audio, and So Cal regional section.


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