# ID 1200.1 From Matt Borgardt (Not Happy)



## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Not sure where the proper place was for this thread is but just thought this should be seen public. I have tried contacting Matt in numerous ways via phone, email, pm, etc and am getting no answer. On top of that... his status indicator says he's online the majority of the time viewing posts yet he won't answer my pms? Well hopefully you read this Matt and come to understand my frustration.

For everyone else, in the classifieds about three weeks ago Matt posted a stock IDQ 1200.1 for sale. (can still be seen if you wish) With some talk and negotiation I decided to purchase it from him modded for $435. After a discussion over the phone which Matt seemed like a very nice,friendly, and easy to work with guy, I come to find that the amp belongs to a buddy of his by the name of Donald. Donald, from my understanding was another customer of his in which he was selling the amp for. On top of that, the amp was in Donalds possession and I was to send the money to Donalds paypal account. Upon receiving the money Matt said he would get the parts and do the mods and get it shipped out right away. I on the other hand, told him I didn't have all the money right away but agreed to do two separate payments. That same day, November 3, i sent the first payment ($220) to Donalds paypal account. I received an email shortly there after from Donald stating he received the money and upon full payment the amp would be modded and shipped right away. 

The next day, November 4, I sent the remaining $215 to Donalds paypal. Afterwards, I never received a confirmation email from Matt or Donald until Monday, November 7 when I decided to email Donald and ask him for some sort of update since I had sent the money the Friday prior. His reply...






Matt got the amp this morning and should be doing the modification on it this week.

Donald

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Coup [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 6:19 PM
To: Donald
Subject: Re: IDQ1200.1

I sent the remaining 215 for the amp last week... Can I get some sort of update? 

Thanks


Sent Via Blackberry





so Matt got the amp and now the mods would be done sometime that week? i thought it was supposed to be done right away? Anyhow, I'm a rather patient... very patient person I must say and let it go and decided to just wait and take his word for it. 


Well I waited a few more days and didn't hear a thing from neither Matt nor Donald.... so later that week on Friday, November 11, I decided to message Matt this time here on the forum and ask him what the status was on the amp. Here is my original message and his reply...




Re: Re: 1200.1

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1edgekilla
whats the status on the amp?


Chris

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Criss I am moving right now I will work on amp sunday and ship out by monday or tuesday. I will keep you posted.

Matt Borgardt

Try Tapatalk for both Android and iPhone download it at your app store today.

End of Line.

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So now im being told it will be another couple of days till the amp is shipped out because hes moving but he'd keep me updated. Well again Im very patient and in the fact that he said he was moving I was very understanding and let it at that. 

Now, here's where things take a turn and I've begun to lose my patients with Matt and his sidekick Donald. The amp was supposed to have been modded this past Sunday and shipped either the next day, Monday, or the following day Tuesday according to Matt. Here it is Thursday, and I have yet to receive a tracking number, email, pm, or anything indicating my amp was shipped earlier this week from either Matt or Donald.


It gets worse... 


So because I haven't been kept updated or heard from Matt as he implied I would be... I decided to email Donald topnight November 17. My email to donald...



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On Nov 17, 2011, at 7:39 PM, "Chris Coup" <[email protected]> wrote:

Not saying this is your fault, but its been over two weeks now... I've tried getting ahold of Matt with no response. If I don't have a tracking number by saturday, I want my money back.

Chris


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Here was his reply...



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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: IDQ1200.1
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:40:46 +0000

I'll gladly send you the amp. I find Matt's mod does nothing on the sq of a sub amp. Let me know I can get it out tomm. 

Sent from my iPhone


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Now from his email back something did not sound right and somehow I had the feeling it wasn't good. I got both the feeling Donald had the amp and no mods had been done.


So I emailed back...


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From: Chris Coup [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:42 PM
To: Donald
Subject: RE: IDQ1200.1

has the amp been modded or not?



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His reply...


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: IDQ1200.1
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:44:29 +0000

No. Matt hasnt answered my calls since friday.

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now im just thinking wtf??
my reply...


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From: Chris Coup [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:49 PM
To: Donald
Subject: RE: IDQ1200.1

I understand that he was moving supposedly but he still gets on the forum every night and in fact is on right now yet he won't message me back. Now im sorry but that isn't how you do business... ignoring people and what not... especially from someone like Matt. Please just paypal gift me the $435 back. I needed that amp modded and don't have anymore time to wait.

Chris


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His reply...


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: IDQ1200.1
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:51:08 +0000

I cant paypal you that money. I gave it to matt already. The day i sent you the email saying he got the amp i gave it to him. He left and forgot to take the amp out of my car. I mean im stuck in the middle.

Donald


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at this point im pretty pissed as I was lied to. Originally he emailed and told me Matt got the amp however many days ago that morning (as is shown in one of his emails above)... never did he mention Matt forgot it and he still had it. Never was I told of this... nor was I kept updated like I was supposed to be. Not only that, but Matt has acted as if he's had the amp in his possession the whole time. Now idk about you but put yourself in my shoes and add this all up. Donald has the amp, no mods have been done, and after what erupted into an email battle with Donald, Im out $435 because he "gave the money to matt" and refuses to refund me. Matt seems to be on the forum most of the day but yet can't answer my emails, pms, or anything of that matter.


I by all means am not trying to start a war here or make Matt look like a bad guy... but from someone who is so highly reputable and looked up to as himself... this is not how you do business. I expected more and am rather pi$$ed over the matter. I hope everyone reads this and understand where i'm coming from including Matt himself...


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## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

I'd be upset too. Hope you get your money back and tell them to keep the amp.

Even good people do bad things sometimes.

And it might say someone is online if they have the smartphone taptalk app on their cellphone.


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## silversound (Feb 5, 2010)

Damn that sucks, can you ask paypal to take the funds back?


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

Ha ha ha ha ha!
Not laughing at you...more laughing with you.

I sent him my Rane RPM88 in April prepaid for the mods and shipping. The mods were 'completed' in August. In October I sent him a prepaid shipping label to his borgardt.us email address as requested. That domain isn't even active anymore. Neither, apparently, is the backyardinstallers forum. All he had to do is put it in a box, print the label, and drop it off. Haven't heard from him since. 

I found out yesterday that someone else sent him an RPM in the last month or so and already has his back!!!

Good luck! I've tried every method of contact; phone, email, facebook... nothing. He won't speak to me or reply to my messages and I have no recourse. I was fed up MONTHS ago.

Anyone know Matt personally? I'll pay you to go pick up my ish and send you the label to ship it with!
LOL


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm kind of curious as to why one would mod a subwoofer amplifier? If it is to make more power at a higher impedance, I can understand that. If it is to improve sound quality, that I don't understand. IMHO the enclosure, subwoofer, and how that combo interacts with the environment will make more of a difference than tighter tolerance parts will from 80 Hz on down.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^ I do hear you, but not the point of this thread!


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

The OP should tell the middle man to send him the dang amp then request that Matt refund the mod money.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^^^Agreed. That is what I would do. He can find many others to do mods.


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

ChrisB said:


> The OP should tell the middle man to send him the dang amp then request that Matt refund the mod money.


He can request it. Probably shouldn't expect it, however. IDK what has been going on with Matt since ID went under, but this is really not cool of him and it WILL end up tarnishing a long, hard-won reputation of excellence.


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

just request a refund in paypal. that will light a fire under someones ass. You'll have your money and its no longer your problem.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

I hope it works out. Back in my ECA days I used to hang out with Matt at ID in Socal and we would AB all sorts of stuff on their Edgarhorns. Crossing my fingers for you.


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## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

This is truly sad IMHO...and Todd's deal is even worse! 

Seriously, it doesn't matter if it's $400 or $20, you should keep the buyer informed. I stay in contact and update buyers as close to "real time" as I can. I do it because that's how I want to be treated. Things happen, like moving, and it seems the OP was understanding of that. Beyond that and it's on the seller. 

I had a guy buy a cd player from me recently. After he sent payment, he told me it was for his wife and he didn't really know how to install it. I told him if he was cool with waiting a couple extra days and sending some extra money, I could make it as close to plug and play as possible. I bought a factory harness and dash kit. Soldered/heatshrunk the cd player harness to the adapter, boxed it all up and sent it off. It made his day because he didn't tell his wife about it and thanks to my help was able to install it super quick. She didn't even know she had a cd player with iPod hookup until the next time she got in the car. 

Something that took me 10 minutes would have taken this guy HOURS. I would hope somebody would help me like that, so I "paid it forward" when I could. 

In this case, I'd say Todd and the OP are at least due a call/email. It's just shameful to be a prick like that with somebody else's hard earned money.


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

pionkej said:


> This is truly sad IMHO...and Todd's deal is even worse!
> 
> Seriously, it doesn't matter if it's $400 or $20, you should keep the buyer informed. I stay in contact and update buyers as close to "real time" as I can. I do it because that's how I want to be treated. Things happen, like moving, and it seems the OP was understanding of that. Beyond that and it's on the seller.
> 
> ...


That's because you're a good Tennessean.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

:lurk:

Hope you get your amp and/or money back ASAP. No reason for this...


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

1edge i can personally vouch for matt. he's not trying to pull a fast one on anyone. he has had some issues and i think something may have happened to his form of communication. i'm not sure if he had a rig setup somewhere, like at a friends house or something, but i know i haven't seen him online lately. and i have him on all my msgers. i'm sure you'll hear from him soon please i beg u be a lil more patient.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Horsemanwill said:


> i think something may have happened to his form of communication.


What does that mean? If he's logged in, which he is right now, he can PM.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

I think patience expires after 14+ days


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ousooner2 said:


> I think patience expires after 14+ days


x2

as much as I respect Matt and what he has done for the industry. 14+ days with no communication and $500 hanging in the wind. I have to agree. either live up to your obligations or quit.


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

I don't think Matt is trying to 'screw' anyone here. I really don't. If I did, I would have done something much more direct to get his immediate attention. That's not to say that he has seriously dropped the ball on far too many 'paying jobs'. In my case he's indicated to me that he roasted the power supply that he was putting in my Rane. He also indicated that he not only replaced the power supply he fried out of his own pocket but went above and beyond by adding in some 'output mods' to the unit as a way to say sorry for taking so very long getting the job done. That would have been AWESOME...if he ever shipped it. 

There are other things going on here, and I have done my best to be appreciative of his current situation. I think I've been more than adequately patient at this point, however, and it's time for Matt to just take care of the people involved in transactions with him. I was under the impression that he literally didn't have the money to ship the unit to me, so I contacted him and at his request emailed a postage paid packing slip. He had me email it to his borgardt.us email address. Go ahead; put borgardt.us in your browser..where's it take you? Ah, GoDaddy has it parked. Bet he never got it...

This could all be a series of unfortunate accidents, but we've passed 'remarkable' and are well into 'gimme a f'kin break' territory now.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

Having similar issues right now with Matt and the pal named Donald.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

sorry for the delay but I have been working all day and just got off... as the OP, I pretty much agree with everyone almost entirely... however unfortunately as was stated sometimes people who you expect the most from let you down and this is kind of the case. 

What erks me the most is the fact that as a result of this thread, im finding this is not the only instance of something like this occurring with Matt. Again, with someone as reputable and what not as himself... it SHOULD NOT happen. Bottom line. I understand people can get very busy sometimes for extended periods of time. However, knowing you are that busy... a person should not be online selling amps and promising modifications and this and that for which they have absolutely no "time" for. I find that appalling to some extent and just plain crap. There's no excuse. If you don't have time to do business the right way... then you shouldn't do it or be posting stuff online or anything like that period.

In the mean time however, Matt HAS pmed me back. idk if its as a result of this thread or not but he did. Being the extremely patient and understanding person that I am im giving this one more shot as he said I will have this amp by next week...

If i don't and these other peoples problems don't get solved as well... then check back here cause things probably won't unfold too well.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

Glad Matt replied to you, I'm waiting for a reply from him right now. I agree with you completely about expectations. My decision to engage in my transaction was based entirely on that mans name and reputation in the industry. And so far it has not turned out good at all.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

And replied received, Thank you Matt. Sorry for jumping in to your thread OP but I felt compelled to speak out also. I'm keepin the faith in Mr B and will await his response once he tracks down his associate and provides me with an update on my purchase.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Subscribed.
Awaiting the outcome as per OP decision.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

vapor77 said:


> And replied received, Thank you Matt. Sorry for jumping in to your thread OP but I felt compelled to speak out also. I'm keepin the faith in Mr B and will await his response once he tracks down his associate and provides me with an update on my purchase.


As am I. glad he got ahold of you I just hope this serves as a good kick in the butt for future business he does now that people are coming out about there issues like yourself.





PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Subscribed.
> Awaiting the outcome as per OP decision.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR




hopefully I don't regret this and walk out empty handed from someone SO many people looked up to and respected....:hanged:


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

.........coulda just bought my amps that I basically held for you for the entire summer....


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> .........coulda just bought my amps that I basically held for you for the entire summer....


Mic, I wanted to but believe I heard you had sold them on ebay?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

still sittin in my garage...only sold a 600 on ebay and Derek bought a 700.2
still have a 1200 and my fully mod'd 700.2


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> still sittin in my garage...only sold a 600 on ebay and Derek bought a 700.2
> still have a 1200 and my fully mod'd 700.2




well since im already hella caught up in this mess with the 1200... don't need that. im STILL interested in the mod'd 700.2 tho. let me see where I sit money wise after Broke Friday and getting this situation with Matt figured out. If i got the money which I should, I'll def grab it off you. of course now you bring it up someone will buy it before then


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

True, pm me a price for the modded one please.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

If it's from a CES car its probably out of the Scion XA demo car.

Eric


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Ouch.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

1edgekilla said:


> As am I. glad he got ahold of you I just hope this serves as a good kick in the butt for future business he does now that people are coming out about there issues like yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My update is that I now have tracking info from the associate of his, albeit they shipped 4 days later than the day he said it shipped on.Which is the reason why he said he wouldnt refund my money, because it was too late.
Now I wait for my amps to arrive, and then bench test them. If these amps are broken, then I'm catching a flight to Cali.


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

vapor77 said:


> My update is that I now have tracking info from the associate of his, albeit they shipped 4 days later than the day he said it shipped on.Which is the reason why he said he wouldnt refund my money, because it was too late.
> Now I wait for my amps to arrive, and then bench test them. If these amps are broken, then I'm catching a flight to Cali.


I hope it all works out for you! Glad to hear you're on the road to getting things sorted out.

-T


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

highly said:


> I hope it all works out for you! Glad to hear you're on the road to getting things sorted out.
> 
> -T


Well I am still hoping it works out, so far it it is certainly showing all the signs of me getting ripped off. And I do blame myself for that partially, for not seeing the warning signs in the beginning. I have done many transactions on this forum recently, spent a lot of money buying items from members and all have been successful up to this point. Maybe I have been lucky till now, I dont know, but my decision to buy on this particular transaction was based almost entirely on the fact that MB is a very well known and respected guy in the industry, and he offered me a price I couldnt refuse. the last person I would expect to have a bad dealing with. I fully understand that the internet is a risky place to do business, but within this community I like to believe that most members here are honest and have integrity. All the people I have dealt with up to this point have those qualities. I expected the same from MB.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

welllllll.... its Monday night and i've yet to hear anything.

go figure.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

Not cool at all.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

well its tuesday and still nothing...


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

Back on topic, maybe if he's got any good buddies on the forum reading this thread, Wanna give your pal a kick in the butt so he can try and salvage his name and rep?


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## DanMan (Jul 18, 2008)

I truly hope Matt makes this right by you. Chances are there are extenuating circumstances and he probably feels terrible to boot. I know this doesn't make it right, right now, but I hope in time it will.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

I've tried a charge back with paypal... I've tried opening a claim... nothing works because it was gifted money. Needless to say idc if you have 200000000+ Positive Itrader Feedbacks... Im never gifting sh1t to a person again.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

Did he insist that you pay gift? Did with me multiple times.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

yeah atleast a half dozen times to avoid "fees"


idk what fees he was worried about as for gifting him i just cost myself nearly a $500 "fee"


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

This just keeps getting better doesnt it, I'm getting consistently more insecure about what my gear is gonna be like when it gets here.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Keep it OT guys. The gift debate belongs elsewhere.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

GIFT posts moved to this thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...l-gift-classifieds.html?highlight=paypal+gift

Any future posts on this matter will not be moved; they will be deleted. Again, keep it on topic guys.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Guys I know for a fact Matt is not going to screw anyone on any transaction. I understand and agree that he hasn't handled many things well in regards to your purchases.

Matt has said that he made the OP well aware of his situation and that he was going through a move. Matt should really come on here and answer for him self. Until a day or two ago he had no Internet for a week or so when he moved.

IMHO you have a very good reason to be upset, your conclusions that you will never get your item are not accurate though. Keep the pressure on him and communicate directly with him.

Eric


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

Eric Stevens said:


> Keep the pressure on him and communicate directly with him.
> 
> Eric


Through what means? His phone number indicates no service. His borgardt.us and backyardinstallers.com emails go nowhere as the domain lapsed. He hasn't answered me on Facebook in months even though he's logged in and posted. Similarly, he shows as logged in here often yet does not respond to PMs. Possibly carrier pigeon?

Sorry, Eric. Not trying to dump on you. None of this is your fault and I am not blaming you for anything. Thanks for posting!

Happy Thanksgiving!

-T


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Eric Stevens;1485637Keep the pressure on him and communicate directly with him.
Eric[/QUOTE said:


> The problem is just that. They shouldn't have to keep pressure on him.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

His borgardt.us email as well as his gmail are both functioning. Another issue if he isn't responding to communications. 

I am try to help everyone including you and the OP including Matt.

Anyone who would like me to help with communicating to Matt just pm me and I will help you reach him and or make sure he gets your messages.

Eric


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> The problem is just that. They shouldn't have to keep pressure on him.


I couldn't agree more. He should have met his commitments and when impossible communicate effectively. He's performed about as badly. Possible in all of those regards.

Eric


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

highly said:


> Through what means? His phone number indicates no service. His borgardt.us and backyardinstallers.com emails go nowhere as the domain lapsed. He hasn't answered me on Facebook in months even though he's logged in and posted. Similarly, he shows as logged in here often yet does not respond to PMs. Possibly carrier pigeon?
> 
> Sorry, Eric. Not trying to dump on you. None of this is your fault and I am not blaming you for anything. Thanks for posting!
> 
> ...


All of which is true.




bikinpunk said:


> The problem is just that. They shouldn't have to keep pressure on him.


^Thank You.


Eric... All I want is my money or amp. Initially he didn't tell me he was moving until almost a week after I was already supposed to have the amp. He was then replying a few days ago on here and told me he had the amp and was going to have it modded and shipped out by Monday. Its now almost Thanksgiving Thursday.... I haven't heard from him since last Sunday. Unless he fell off the face of the earth... there's no excuse for any of this. And if there is... it better be one of the best I've ever heard because I surely do want an explanation...plain sight.. on here... for everyone to read and see. But like my amp... I probably won't get that either.


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## vwguy383 (Dec 4, 2008)

I don't know for sure but there was a guy that had a similar name over on the phoenixphorum's that got banned from there because he was doing shaddy stuff with other peoples stuff. Like stealing it and reselling it. His online name was bogart. I don't know the entire faxs about the problem but maybe someone could chime in on it. Hope everything works out with you and your amp! I haven't gotten screwed on anything yet on the internet and hope I never do!

Thanks
Justind


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

vwguy383 said:


> I don't know for sure but there was a guy that had a similar name over on the phoenixphorum's that got banned from there because he was doing shaddy stuff with other peoples stuff. Like stealing it and reselling it. His online name was bogart. I don't know the entire faxs about the problem but maybe someone could chime in on it. Hope everything works out with you and your amp! I haven't gotten screwed on anything yet on the internet and hope I never do!
> 
> Thanks
> Justind


not even close to the same person


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## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

bikinpunk said:


> GIFT posts moved to this thread:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...l-gift-classifieds.html?highlight=paypal+gift
> 
> Any future posts on this matter will not be moved; they will be deleted. Again, keep it on topic guys.


Brilliant , you moved it where no one will see it.

Why cant you move it to off topic at least.

-Anthony


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## vwguy383 (Dec 4, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> not even close to the same person


Sorry my bad.

Thanks
Justind


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

still nothing.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

Still nothing? This is beyond ridiculous. My gear showed up, doesnt look to be in terrible shape except someone dropped one of the amps and bent the fins, with the bubble wrap on.Also snapped of a piece of the end cap. Tomorrow I test them and see if they work.


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

With extreme thanks to Eric Stevens, the processor arrived today. 250 days round trip from the date of payment. I'll be testing it out later today.

Eric, thank you SO much for your intervention here. I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate your help.

-Todd


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## DanMan (Jul 18, 2008)

Bumping this thread for hope that it gets resolved amicably.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

DanMan said:


> Bumping this thread for hope that it gets resolved amicably.


It appears that the seller in question is deliberately avoiding a response based on the multiple posts stating numerous front door and back door attempts at contacting him.

It would be very beneficial for everyone involved if he would post in this thread and state the status of the remaining undelivered components.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

No, what would be beneficial is if he contacted them directly and handled this one on one, what would make good drama is if he did it on here.

And for the record I purchased the 2 subs from him in the same thread and had an email asking if he could ship after he moved and then a confirmation that they shipped this past week


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## Mahna Mahna (Mar 2, 2008)

Very unfortunate that someone with Matt's reputation in the industry chose this course of action and won't come on to explain.

I'd be VERY wary from buying any product from a company he works for.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Mahna Mahna said:


> Very unfortunate that someone with Matt's reputation in the industry chose this course of action and won't come on to explain.
> 
> *I'd be VERY wary from buying any product from a company he works for*.


That's insane!! Why would what an engineer and designer does or doesnt do effect your decision on whether to order a product from a company that employs him. 

Would you buy a Zed product?


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

chefhow said:


> No, what would be beneficial is if he contacted them directly and handled this one on one, what would make good drama is if he did it on here.
> 
> And for the record I purchased the 2 subs from him in the same thread and had an email asking if he could ship after he moved and then a confirmation that they shipped this past week


hmm well i guess that's just all good and dandy for you then now isn't it. i haven't had confirmation on **** never was i informed he was moving until almost 3 weeks later... here it is almost a month and i still don't have my money back or any sort of indication that my amp is on its way... all i have is nothing but lies and more lies documented in pm's and emails. 


and for the record... he should do this both publicly and privately... regardless because it hasn't just happened with one person. seeing as this greatly affects his rep. im sure a lot of people here want an explanation who haven't even bought something from him. and i agreed with the fact that IDC who Matt works for... I will never buy another thing from him or the persons', company, corporation, whatever the heck it might be that he works for, ever again


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

chefhow said:


> No, what would be beneficial is if he contacted them directly and handled this one on one, what would make good drama is if he did it on here.
> 
> And for the record I purchased the 2 subs from him in the same thread and had an email asking if he could ship after he moved and then a confirmation that they shipped this past week


Chefhow,
I disagree.
It's bigger than the two members posting in this thread.
While I agree that he needs to contact them and get this resolved, there's so many other members that have read this thread and have formed their own opinions.
I myself am monitoring his fs threads.

His ability to sell anything else on here hangs in the balance.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## highly (Jan 30, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Chefhow,
> I disagree.
> It's bigger than the two members posting in this thread.
> While I agree that he needs to contact them and get this resolved, there's so many other members that have read this thread and have formed their own opinions.
> ...



My case was commissioned work, not a purchase of an item. Didn't even stem from anything DiYMA related. I don't see them as the same issue, and as I mentioned my work was completed, shipped, and arrived intact. Took a _very_ long time, but it all happened.

-T


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Chefhow,
> I disagree.
> It's bigger than the two members posting in this thread.
> While I agree that he needs to contact them and get this resolved, there's so many other members that have read this thread and have formed their own opinions.
> ...


Sorry to hear that, the way I see it is it doesn't effect anyone other that the OP. he is the one who doesn't have an amp, not me or anyone else in this thread. If his ability to sell "hangs in the balance" what about the members who have bad transactions that still sell on here? You gonna cut em all off? If he shipped his amp and it shows up to the OP's house tomorrow, he says I got it and it works what happens then? If he doesn't come on here do you still monitor him? It isnt between anyone but the OP and Matt. 

As for opinions, they are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink. It doesn't matter what he does at this point, people who have had great experiences are gonna continue to buy a d those who haven't wont. You can change that no matter what is done.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

well just thought I'd let everyone know... Still nothing.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

no amp still and its now almost 2 months.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I am sorry to hear that someone who is supposed to be one of us, has done this. I got out of the retail business for the fact that if I could not meet my customers needs 100%, then I shouldn't be doing business. I have no idea who this Matt gentleman is so in no way do I have room to speak ill of him. My opinion is just that, my opinion. If you are not satisfied by what I have sold to you, you get your money back. If I have done a service for which you are not satisfied, tell me so that I can fix it. I pray that you get exactly what is owed to you. Once again I am sorry to have to read about your loss, and what you have had to put up with.


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## AKheathen (Sep 10, 2011)

i'm not involved, but i can provide a little insite into what/how things started on his end. i learned this little peice of wisdom and foresite first hand from a not-so-great ex business partner- little fibs need to be backed up, which is usually bey bigger lies, and it only gets worse, which leads to the inevitable "there is a time you need to eat crow" most likely the little fib that he was already getting started on an amp that he hadn't got yet was probably in good intention and not pizz you off at the same time, which is not totally without understanding, but he let it get too far, especially not getting right on it. i would guess he got way in over his head and couldn't take it, as i've seen happen to many good guys. personally, it has taught me to hold stead-fast to my own business ethics, and take whatever comes as a result. honestly, i would be willing to take on the mod pro-bono if i knew the details of it. mods i've had experience with aren't too hard if there is not major physical re-working involved, and i'm not shy of re-wrapping a torroid or 2. right now, though, i'm mid-setup stage for my new bench equipment, and the scope needs to be re-worked a bit and basically just a bad time........ 
buisiness like this is one of the reasons i, and a few others do not really take on work for others, just work at leisure on purchased equipment and flip it for more projects. i would focus on getting the amp in any condition asap and go from there.


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## AKheathen (Sep 10, 2011)

bikinpunk said:


> GIFT posts moved to this thread:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...l-gift-classifieds.html?highlight=paypal+gift
> 
> Any future posts on this matter will not be moved; they will be deleted. Again, keep it on topic guys.


i can't read that page......?


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## jam0o0 (Nov 30, 2010)

AKheathen said:


> i can't read that page......?


it's in the paying members only section.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Yea. I goofed. I'll fix it when I get a chance later.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

so figured id bump this for still not having my amp... apparently other members of the forum are having similar issues. i've come to the conclusion I will probably never get my money or my amp so Im going to put this out there for anyone who may know Matt personally and/or knows where he lives... if you can pay this "professional" a visit...get me my amp... or atleast my money back... pm me and I'll gladly reward you with a chunk of change that will have more than made your efforts worthwhile.


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## Jonny Hotnuts (Mar 15, 2011)

On FB as Matthew J Borgardt II. (<I assume its him due to the tons of CA/ID pics)

Maybe a message to everyone of his friends with a link to this thread? Maybe if his friends and family see what he did and how he is not dealing with it, he may be motivated to respond.

Not that I advocate this but I had a guy across the country tried to scam me for a 3500$ busa motor (ebay). I guess he didnt think someone would be able to track his location and have connections. He was woke up at 2am by 3 very large 'brothas' (not to get into details more then just 3 big dudes were part of his motivation). 

To make a long story short, I got my motor (taken out of his personal bike) and was shipped that morning. 

The sport bike/racing community is very tight and is very anti bike thieves....I was lucky no doubt. 

MB is GOING to find himself in a situation where he will eventually have to answer for this. I am really disappointed in how he had handled it so far....or at least what I am reading on this thread. 

Again, I say message his FB friends.....youll get a response. 
Good luck

~JH


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## Wattser93 (Mar 12, 2010)

It would be nice to hear from Matt himself in this thread.

If he is online frequently, this thread has no doubt caught his attention. Ignoring the thread while he's holding onto other people's possessions that they rightfully paid for months ago (250 day turnaround time? pathetic) is very disappointing. If the reality is that he's overbooked with work and doesn't have the time to finish them now, he should say that. Laying silent while others are trying to contact him isn't something you'd expect from somebody so well respected in the industry.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> On FB as Matthew J Borgardt II. (<I assume its him due to the tons of CA/ID pics)
> 
> Maybe a message to everyone of his friends with a link to this thread? Maybe if his friends and family see what he did and how he is not dealing with it, he may be motivated to respond.
> 
> ...


I actually believe that's his son as I believe Matt is older... however I could be wrong but not a bad idea.



Wattser93 said:


> It would be nice to hear from Matt himself in this thread.
> 
> If he is online frequently, this thread has no doubt caught his attention. Ignoring the thread while he's holding onto other people's possessions that they rightfully paid for months ago (250 day turnaround time? pathetic) is very disappointing. If the reality is that he's overbooked with work and doesn't have the time to finish them now, he should say that. Laying silent while others are trying to contact him isn't something you'd expect from somebody so well respected in the industry.


Agreed 100%.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> On FB as Matthew J Borgardt II. (<I assume its him due to the tons of CA/ID pics)
> 
> 
> ~JH


That is his Son who has nothing to do with this. Dont mess with people's kids


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## Jonny Hotnuts (Mar 15, 2011)

> That is his Son who has nothing to do with this. Dont mess with people's kids


Thats why I put the "I assume".....I dont know MB, clearly who in involved would need to know who is who before sending messages. It was only a suggestion to possibly get this guy motivated by shame. 

I did find seinior on FB. 

Ironically, 1edge IS someones kid also.....and who the F is messing with him? 

If my pop committed a crime I would want to know about it, and could guarantee you I would put a boot in his ass. If I were 1Edge I would send a link of this thread to his adult son, his granny and grampy, aunts, uncles and un born fetus in the fam if it gets this guy to answer for what he did. 

~JH


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

^truth^

I don't care how well respected someone _was_...once they become a thief all bets are off. I'd contact every family member, friend and whoever else I could to shame the guy into paying up. 
And face facts people....this guy HAS become nothing more than a common internet thief.

OP....go at him with everything you've got. If his friends give you **** for trying to get your hard earned money back from a thief they're no better than he is.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Me, minding my OWN business.
:laugh:


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## Swanson's Performance (Mar 27, 2011)

I think many of you are ridiculous. It shouldn't take 80+ posts, 3 pages, and numerous people who haven't even been involved (myself included) who have made it their business. If Matt has done something wrong, and not defended himself, that alone should serve as notice for you to STAY AWAY if you feel you can't trust him based on someone else's story. "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me" ring any bells???

And, for anyone who has paid with Paypal as a gift and gotten burned, YOU need to man up, Paypal *EXPLICITLY* states NOT to send money as a gift to someone if you're using it for goods, as the 3% is what pays to cover YOUR ass in the transaction! See above!! If you were concerned about getting screwed, adding the additional 3% to your payment if the seller is questionable should be a small price to pay in the long run. You claim you got screwed out of $435? Well, the $435 you "lost" so far would have been enough to pay Paypal fees for *over $14,500* worth of transactions. So, was it really worth not paying an additional 12 bucks out of your pocket?

I think about 90% of the animosity in this thread is coming from kicking yourself in the ass for being so trivial as not to pay the $12. You were afforded every chance to protect yourself from exactly this loss, and you CHOSE to gamble. Man up, accept your loss, and now that you've provided an unrebutted tally of your side of the facts, LET IT REST.

Matt's long-time boss Eric Stevens has weighed in on this, and has gotten involved. If anyone else reading this sees your story and Eric's post, and no response from Matt, then it's their choice whether to do business with him. However, I think it's almost comical that there are suddenly 30 people saying dumb crap like "Oh, I'd be wary of ever buying anything from any company he works for!". Come on. First, these private transactions have no bearing on any company Matt works for, and I certainly don't see any of you bashing Eric. This transaction also has *absolutely no bearing* on what Matt has done for our hobby in the past. That'd be like saying that one joint you smoked in high school tarnished your reputation for the rest of your life, because you're a pothead. Second, without knowing details from Matt's side, everything else is speculation and hearsay. Even Titanium Powersellers on eBay have some negative remarks every now and then. Hopefully this will either get resolved soon, or Matt will finally come on and give an explanation, and a resolution. Resorting to violence is just plain stupid, and so elementary-school-playground-ish. Act like an adult if you expect to be treated like one. If you are that concerned about it, file a case in small claims court. That should get his attention.

I'm actually kinda surprised this unabated bashing has gone on for so long, just as I am that Matt hasn't replied on here. That said, you've had over two months to mourn your loss. Move on, lesson learned.... PAY for Paypal's insurance even if it's out of your pocket! Save us all an unending, interminally boring, repetitious post. Please. Thank you.


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## hawaii_broncos_fan (Nov 30, 2011)

Swanson's Performance said:


> I think many of you are ridiculous. It shouldn't take 80+ posts, 3 pages, and numerous people who haven't even been involved (myself included) who have made it their business. If Matt has done something wrong, and not defended himself, that alone should serve as notice for you to STAY AWAY if you feel you can't trust him based on someone else's story. "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me" ring any bells???
> 
> And, for anyone who has paid with Paypal as a gift and gotten burned, YOU need to man up, Paypal *EXPLICITLY* states NOT to send money as a gift to someone if you're using it for goods, as the 3% is what pays to cover YOUR ass in the transaction! See above!! If you were concerned about getting screwed, adding the additional 3% to your payment if the seller is questionable should be a small price to pay in the long run. You claim you got screwed out of $435? Well, the $435 you "lost" so far would have been enough to pay Paypal fees for *over $14,500* worth of transactions. So, was it really worth not paying an additional 12 bucks out of your pocket?
> 
> ...


really? 

although i do agree on your paypal comments and not sending money as gift when your are buying goods, the rest of your post is RETARDED!!!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Swanson's Performance said:


> I think many of you are ridiculous. It shouldn't take 80+ posts, 3 pages, and numerous people who haven't even been involved (myself included) who have made it their business. If Matt has done something wrong, and not defended himself, that alone should serve as notice for you to STAY AWAY if you feel you can't trust him based on someone else's story. "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me" ring any bells???
> 
> And, for anyone who has paid with Paypal as a gift and gotten burned, YOU need to man up, Paypal *EXPLICITLY* states NOT to send money as a gift to someone if you're using it for goods, as the 3% is what pays to cover YOUR ass in the transaction! See above!! If you were concerned about getting screwed, adding the additional 3% to your payment if the seller is questionable should be a small price to pay in the long run. You claim you got screwed out of $435? Well, the $435 you "lost" so far would have been enough to pay Paypal fees for *over $14,500* worth of transactions. So, was it really worth not paying an additional 12 bucks out of your pocket?
> 
> ...


I agree with some of that, especially avoiding fees via gift payments.

However, I think some of the problem is the anonymity of the internet. I'll get a lot of people pissed at me for saying this but sometimes knowing you will get your ass kicked if you rip someone off is what it takes for some people to be straight.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> I'll get a lot of people pissed at me for saying this but sometimes knowing you will get your ass kicked if you rip someone off is what it takes for some people to be straight.


What's to be pissed at?
You're are dead on right!!!

All it takes is being ripped off one time to agree 100% with that statement.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Swanson's Performance said:


> I think many of you are ridiculous. It shouldn't take 80+ posts, 3 pages, and numerous people who haven't even been involved (myself included) who have made it their business. If Matt has done something wrong, and not defended himself, that alone should serve as notice for you to STAY AWAY if you feel you can't trust him based on someone else's story. "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me" ring any bells???
> 
> And, for anyone who has paid with Paypal as a gift and gotten burned, YOU need to man up, Paypal *EXPLICITLY* states NOT to send money as a gift to someone if you're using it for goods, as the 3% is what pays to cover YOUR ass in the transaction! See above!! If you were concerned about getting screwed, adding the additional 3% to your payment if the seller is questionable should be a small price to pay in the long run. You claim you got screwed out of $435? Well, the $435 you "lost" so far would have been enough to pay Paypal fees for *over $14,500* worth of transactions. So, was it really worth not paying an additional 12 bucks out of your pocket?
> 
> ...


WOW! That is an interesting post. It's interesting that someone who is so new to this forum would have such a response. 

I will say....yes, you should pay the PayPal fees to protect yourself. However, the OP and others were dealing with someone whose reputation was as good as gold (or so they thought). There are many members on this forum I would send a "gift" payment to in a heart beat because they have earned my trust along with most on this forum. Does that make me stupid...maybe, but it is what it is. As far as I am concerned, let the bitching continue until he comes and either defends himself or makes everything right!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I wouldn't really be encouraging people to go find him and get your amp back.

You don't know who is packing heat and what could happen if things went south.

You and your "friends" could be looking at anything from federal conspiracy charges (since we are using the internet to do this), conspiracy to commit bodily harm, assault, etc.

Take it up with the local PD.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> I wouldn't really be encouraging people to go find him and get your amp back.
> 
> You don't know who is packing heat and what could happen if things went south.
> 
> ...


Just sayin


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> WOW! That is an interesting post. It's interesting that someone who is so new to this forum would have such a response.
> 
> I will say....yes, you should pay the PayPal fees to protect yourself. However, the OP and others were dealing with someone whose reputation was as good as gold (or so they thought). There are many members on this forum I would send a "gift" payment to in a heart beat because they have earned my trust along with most on this forum. Does that make me stupid...maybe, but it is what it is. As far as I am concerned, let the bitching continue until he comes and either defends himself or makes everything right!


it's good to know other people see eye to eye with me on this rather then some lunatic with 9 posts who clearly must have some sort of background with Matt and came in on this simply because of it...



thehatedguy said:


> I wouldn't really be encouraging people to go find him and get your amp back.
> 
> You don't know who is packing heat and what could happen if things went south.
> 
> ...


Yeah that wasn't exactly my idea haha although im sure there are plenty of situations where that would and has worked... im not about to put a price tag of $435 on the guys head... but like some of the people said... if messaging other people that know him is what it takes to get the word out of what he's doing and get people on his ass about it then so be it... thats what i'll do.





As for BuickGN and Bret, I agree that this is sometimes true but im not the kinda of guy that needed to be ripped off to be straight... i've never ripped someone off nor would I... that's plain and simple.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Swanson's Performance said:


> I think many of you are ridiculous. It shouldn't take 80+ posts, 3 pages, and numerous people who haven't even been involved (myself included) who have made it their business. If Matt has done something wrong, and not defended himself, that alone should serve as notice for you to STAY AWAY if you feel you can't trust him based on someone else's story. "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me" ring any bells???
> 
> And, for anyone who has paid with Paypal as a gift and gotten burned, YOU need to man up, Paypal *EXPLICITLY* states NOT to send money as a gift to someone if you're using it for goods, as the 3% is what pays to cover YOUR ass in the transaction! See above!! If you were concerned about getting screwed, adding the additional 3% to your payment if the seller is questionable should be a small price to pay in the long run. You claim you got screwed out of $435? Well, the $435 you "lost" so far would have been enough to pay Paypal fees for *over $14,500* worth of transactions. So, was it really worth not paying an additional 12 bucks out of your pocket?
> 
> ...



Seriously, don't even get me started. Its a good thing someone else already said enough with how retarded this post was.


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## Swanson's Performance (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't have any background with Matt, or Eric, or any other "lunatic" on this board. I also love your logic (and self-reassurance) that my points carry no weight because of a low post count. You're trying the easy way out, thinking I must be a troll or something. Sorry to disappoint, any mod can see my IP and other related info has never been associated with anything else on the site. I'm not even on the same half of the continent as Matt.

So go ahead and "get started"- it's you that you need to be mad at. Matt does deserve blame in this too, but It's not like Matt was your lifelong neighbor and you had built a solid relationship of mutual trust. You went off a name, without your due diligence. 

You chose to use Paypal, and you chose to violate Paypal's Terms of Service. Not Matt, not anybody else. If you had paid a measly $12 extra, this thread would only consist of, "Matt didn't do what he said, and Paypal broke one off in his ass." Now, your feelings are hurt, your wallet is lighter by $435, and you don't even have a pile of poo to show for it. All because of your choices. If you had chosen to send a Postal Money order and this happened, you would have spent the same $435, but now you could be filing federal mail fraud charges instead of this monstrosity. That would have gotten his attention a whole lot more than this thread!

If you go to the zoo, and choose to jump the fence, try to pet the pretty tiger, and he decides that your hand is a tasty morsel best enjoyed in his belly, how is that the fault of the zoo or the tiger? 

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Swanson's Performance said:


> So go ahead and "get started"- it's you that you need to be mad at. Matt does deserve blame in this too, but It's not like Matt was your lifelong neighbor and you had built a solid relationship of mutual trust. You went off a name, without your due diligence.


Please explain how a normal person (meaning not one close with Matt, i.e a family member) would due his "due diligence" (other than his previous spotless reputation) to find out that he may not deliver products on his promise? Please, is there a website that shows this or maybe a rating system....oh, wait....his previous history was perfect!




Swanson's Performance said:


> You chose to use Paypal, and you chose to violate Paypal's Terms of Service. Not Matt, not anybody else. If you had paid a measly $12 extra, this thread would only consist of, "Matt didn't do what he said, and Paypal broke one off in his ass." Now, your feelings are hurt, your wallet is lighter by $435, and you don't even have a pile of poo to show for it. All because of your choices. If you had chosen to send a Postal Money order and this happened, you would have spent the same $435, but now you could be filing federal mail fraud charges instead of this monstrosity. That would have gotten his attention a whole lot more than this thread!
> 
> If you go to the zoo, and choose to jump the fence, try to pet the pretty tiger, and he decides that your hand is a tasty morsel best enjoyed in his belly, how is that the fault of the zoo or the tiger?
> 
> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


Believe me, your point is taken and has been mentioned before, so you are saying nothing new here. Keep saying the obvious because I'm not sure the people that got screwed understand and will continue to pay via gift with PayPal.  They get it, they will never do that again. You know, there was a time when sellers required payment this way and after a few problems, the forum does not allow it anymore....just FYI! From what I read, you are saying it is okay that they got screwed because they were dumb in the first place....I disagree. It is NEVER okay to screw someone (unless it is of a sexual nature and they are willing....lol). 

You obviously haven't been a member long (by your post count and misunderstanding of the tight bond many form on here). Should I be worried that I just sent off a $700 driver for klippel testing? No, I trust people on here and they did me when I headed a 16 driver midrange test by sending speakers, equipment and misc other items with absolutely NO protection. That is what this forum is about. This wasn't some guy, like you, who is new and we know nothing about with no history. There was absolutely NO reason anyone on this forum shouldn't have trusted Matt. 

You analogy doesn't even make sense in this case. Lets put your analogy a little different. If a zookeeper at the zoo has worked with a specific animal for many years and has developed a bond with that animal, and even though they have cared for the animal in the same manner time and time again, the animal attacks and harms the zookeeper, is the zookeeper at fault?


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## Swanson's Performance (Mar 27, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> Please explain how a normal person (meaning not one close with Matt, i.e a family member) would due his "due diligence" (other than his previous spotless reputation) to find out that he may not deliver products on his promise? Please, is there a website that shows this or maybe a rating system....oh, wait....his previous history was perfect!


Due diligence by using Paypal in the method it was constructed and intended, with the 2.9% + $0.30 fee to protect the buyer. As you pointed out, and I agree with wholeheartedly, I have not had any personal interactions with Matt. Therefore, I'd have paid the $12.




Niebur3 said:


> Believe me, your point is taken and has been mentioned before, so you are saying nothing new here. You obviously haven't been a member long (by your post count and misunderstanding of the tight bond many form on here). Should I be worried that I just sent off a $700 driver for klippel testing? No, I trust people on here and they did me when I headed a 16 driver midrange test by sending speakers, equipment and misc other items with absolutely NO protection. That is what this forum is about. This wasn't some guy, like you, who is new and we know nothing about with no history. There was absolutely NO reason anyone on this forum shouldn't have trusted Matt.


I do completely understand your point, and the fact about the tight bond. BUT, the OP has admitted that this was his first dealing with Matt. If you are sending equipment back and forth, you've obviously built up the trust somehow, probably other than with just a name. I DO understand that's the point of this forum, and why I decided to join. Also, I'm not asking you to trust me with your $435, or $700 driver, or 16 speaker test. I haven't had any dealings with you to build that trust, and therefore I wouldn't offer it or expect it in return, either, at this point. Would I have done the same thing, since this was THE MATT BORGARDT in question? Probably. All I was trying to do here is point out to the OP that even though the "rep" was there, he was still taking a risk going outside of the protections provided. 

As far as the comment about the low post count, when you were new to this board- did that make your comments, opinions, and experiences any less relative or any less valuable? If you have a valid contribution, it should matter not if you have 1 post or 100,000. When it comes to dealing in money or goods, however, you and I obviously agree that past performance can create trust without security, and that can either work out beautifully like your transactions, or, usually rarely, they can end up like this one.



Niebur3 said:


> You analogy doesn't even make sense in this case. Lets put your analogy a little different. If a zookeeper at the zoo has worked with a specific animal for many years and has developed a bond with that animal, and even though they have cared for the animal in the same manner time and time again, the animal attacks and harms the zookeeper, is the zookeeper at fault?


Absolutely. Animals can be domesticated, but they are always still exactly that- animals. If you chose to interact with things that can kill you, and you let your guard down when you could have reasonably protected yourself, and you get killed, yes- it's your fault.

I guess I kinda think of unprotected Paypal transactions like going to the casinos- if you can't afford to lose it in the first place, you probably shouldn't be doing it anyways! Peace!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

OK then, we get your point MOVE on.....


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> Please explain how a normal person (meaning not one close with Matt, i.e a family member) would due his "due diligence" (other than his previous spotless reputation) to find out that he may not deliver products on his promise? Please, is there a website that shows this or maybe a rating system....oh, wait....his previous history was perfect!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jerry I should just let you speak for me... exactly what he fails to understand. Regardless if I had done a transaction with the guy before or not... his 1000's of other perfect transactions and spotless reputation were enough for me to trust him. Similar to what you were saying... part of me being involved with this forum was being able to follow peoples track records... see that they were good, let alone perfect, and not have to worry. Apparently Swanson does not seem to understand that concept. 




Coppertone said:


> OK then, we get your point MOVE on.....


X2


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Lets move this back to the top...


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

still not resolved??!


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I'm thinking NO...


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## fergusonv (Jan 30, 2012)

At this point, actually even before this point I would have paid out of my pocket and done whatever necessary to take him to court just out of principale.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Nope... Still no amp... Haven't heard from Matt since November. Go figure.


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## jowens500 (Sep 5, 2008)

For all the people saying the "buyer" pays the 3%, sorry, but that's the wrong answer. The "seller" agrees to the 3% fee in their price. It's in the PayPal agreement that you click "yes" to when you sign up to accept PayPal payments. So asking for it on top of the price is against PayPal policy. If you don't believe me, take the time to read agreement that you "signed" when setting up your PayPal account. 

PAYING FOR SOMETHING
Always Free

PayPal is free whenever you use it to buy something. The seller pays us a small fee to securely handle your payment. As a buyer, you never pay a fee to use PayPal.

^^^^straight from the PayPal website.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Um ok, try to prove that my "shipping and handling" charges don't include the 3% 

like it or not, you the buyer will pay for it

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


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## jowens500 (Sep 5, 2008)

minbari said:


> Um ok, try to prove that my "shipping and handling" charges don't include the 3%
> 
> like it or not, you the buyer will pay for it
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


You're right, asking 3% more than you actually want for the item is perfectly okay. Asking a price and THEN asking for the 3% is against PayPal policy.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Agreed, you can't tack on more than the agreed upon price for any reason

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

highly said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha!
> Not laughing at you...more laughing with you.
> 
> I sent him my Rane RPM88 in April prepaid for the mods and shipping. The mods were 'completed' in August. In October I sent him a prepaid shipping label to his borgardt.us email address as requested. That domain isn't even active anymore. Neither, apparently, is the backyardinstallers forum. All he had to do is put it in a box, print the label, and drop it off. Haven't heard from him since.
> ...


I know....Him.....and I will tell you this...it takes an act of congress for Matt to Reply....He is Honest...and he takes forever because Matt has alot of things going on at once......With this Said....Matt is Honest, Fair...It takes an act of Congress to get a hold of him........He Did My Truck....It took forever..but he did it right....Matt if your reading this.

A Marine in Chino, California


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

He has stolen this guys money and a lot of his time too! Plenty of people know Matt here, but that does not excuse his thievery. I hope Matt is okay, but at this point, no reason he could give will be a valid reason for what he did to this guy.


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

schmiddr2 said:


> He has stolen this guys money and a lot of his time too! Plenty of people know Matt here, but that does not excuse his thievery. I hope Matt is okay but at this point no reason he could give will be a valid reason for what he did to this guy.


Oh...so he has now been declared a Thief......oh O.K.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Diezel10 said:


> Oh...so he has now been declared a Thief......oh O.K.


Look at the date this thread has started... It'll explain you a thing or two. 

I personally met Matt - good fellow... really!!!!! 
But not posting to explain anything is beyond me. 

Kelvin


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

I understand........and I'm supposed to purchase a Rane RPM88 from him...........


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Although it doesn't sound like you actually understand, it doesn't matter because he will not sell here again anyway.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

hate to say it, gut the description fits the guy "Matt" that is!!!!


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Diezel10 said:


> I understand........and I'm supposed to purchase a Rane RPM88 from him...........


Unless you are physically handing him cash and picking it up at the same time good luck, I've been told Tuesday on my items since October...


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Diezel10 said:


> Oh...so he has now been declared a Thief......oh O.K.


Let's see, he took money, never delivered product, then stopped returning calls. Yup sound like a text book definition of a thief

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Bring this back up.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Howard,

I've all but given up... Eric has said he was trying to get through to Matt but apparently that's just as hopeless... either way you look at it... I'm out well over $400 and others including yourself are out there hard earned money as well. I'll never do business with Matt or anyone associated with him for as long as I'm a part of diy... I can assure everyone of that.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

i can understand not wanting to do business with matt again but to say "or anyone associated" too, seems kinda harsh. so even though Eric has tried does that mean you won't purchase from him? or what if it was someone else on the forum?


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Horsemanwill said:


> i can understand not wanting to do business with matt again but to say "or anyone associated" too, seems kinda harsh. so even though Eric has tried does that mean you won't purchase from him? or what if it was someone else on the forum?


x2

Id do business with Eric in a heartbeat! He is a great guy.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Is Eric still an associate of matt though?

I have no problem doing business with Eric, he its a great guy. But I understand his point too. If they are associated with a thief, then they are condoning that behavior

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

minbari said:


> Is Eric still an associate of matt though?
> 
> I have no problem doing business with Eric, he its a great guy. But I understand his point too. If they are associated with a thief, then they are condoning that behavior
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


i disagree with that. alot of my friends do things that aren't savory, and i by all means don't condone it but does that make me a bad person? guilt by association is wrong it's as bad as profiling

for example just because we have amplified systems are we all bassheads?


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## dietDrThunder (Nov 4, 2010)

I have to say...this thread might be shedding a little light on the hows and why of the demise of ID and Eric's departure. Sad, that.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Horsemanwill said:


> i disagree with that. alot of my friends do things that aren't savory, and i by all means don't condone it but does that make me a bad person? guilt by association is wrong it's as bad as profiling
> 
> for example just because we have amplified systems are we all bassheads?


yes, but if you are in business with someone, then guilt by association is perfectly fine in my mind. if one person in the company does illegal things and the other one does nothing, he is just as bad.


that said, I didnt say that Eric should be hung out to dry and I dont see that Eric is making excuses for Matt's behavior., just that I can see his persective.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I don't know either of these guys other than they were quick to help me out and went above and beyond when I had a problem with my ID tweeter (that I caused). As far as I can tell based on information from this thread only, Eric doesn't seem to associate with Matt. In one of his posts he made it sound like it was hard for even him to track Matt down and make contact with him. I didn't think they were associates, business or otherwise anymore. From what I can gather, Eric has kept it classy and not dumped on Matt but it seems they're not close. All of this based solely from what I've read on this board.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

dietDrThunder said:


> I have to say...this thread might be shedding a little light on the hows and why of the demise of ID and Eric's departure. Sad, that.


I can tell you 100% that one thing had nothing to do with the other. Eric sold well before this happened and Matt worked for Eric he didn't own the company.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Not even close or related to what happened with Eric and ID.



dietDrThunder said:


> I have to say...this thread might be shedding a little light on the hows and why of the demise of ID and Eric's departure. Sad, that.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

chefhow said:


> I can tell you 100% that one thing had nothing to do with the other. Eric sold well before this happened and Matt worked for Eric he didn't own the company.





thehatedguy said:


> Not even close or related to what happened with Eric and ID.


what those two said. dietDrThunder you couldn't be so far off even if you were on a rocket.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

My problem is I've been able to contact Matt in th past and was more than forgiving w/time lines since my subs were too go into a build intended for MECA so I had time. But now that it's time to get it done I have nothing and have to rethink the sub and sub amp porttion of what I want to do, more money, more time...

I don't associate Matt w/Eric and have no problems w/Eric he has been more that helpful, but if I ever see Matt try to sell anything I will destroy his post and ability to do business here for as long as I am active here or any other audio website that we both may be members of.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

chefhow said:


> My problem is I've been able to contact Matt in th past and was more than forgiving w/time lines since my subs were too go into a build intended for MECA so I had time. But now that it's time to get it done I have nothing and have to rethink the sub and sub amp porttion of what I want to do, more money, more time...
> 
> I don't associate Matt w/Eric and have no problems w/Eric he has been more that helpful, but if I ever see Matt try to sell anything I will destroy his post and ability to do business here for as long as I am active here or any other audio website that we both may be members of.


^X2... I have no problem with Eric whatsoever... and he has done a great deal in trying to help me so far and though unsuccessful, I am more than grateful... otherwise... like you Howard, if Matt even attempts to come onto this forum without taking care of either of our issues... I will stop at nothing to wreak hell on him.


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## dietDrThunder (Nov 4, 2010)

chefhow said:


> I can tell you 100% that one thing had nothing to do with the other. Eric sold well before this happened and Matt worked for Eric he didn't own the company.


I am corrected...


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

so bump to the top for me going to Ontario, CA in 3 weeks... going to pay Mr. Borgardt a little visit.


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## SAM77H (May 19, 2010)

1edgekilla said:


> so bump to the top for me going to Ontario, CA in 3 weeks... going to pay Mr. Borgardt a little visit.


I've been following this with interest. Good luck !


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## Devourment (Jan 23, 2010)

There isn't really a worse feeling then getting ripped off. It stings even more whenever it is done over the internet. Especially with someone who had a superb reputation. 

Hopefully whenever you visit CA things will get resolved and you get your amp. 

Good luck!


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

1edgekilla said:


> so bump to the top for me going to Ontario, CA in 3 weeks... going to pay Mr. Borgardt a little visit.


keep a cool head cause $400 is not worth getting into any trouble. i'm sorry you have had to go through so much trouble. the trouble this has caused you, making you restless, and having a troubled mind has not been worth close to getting upset over loosing the money. and now you are investing into it even more. 

i'm a spiritual man, and have seen people get their just reward for the good and bad they do. when things are out of my control, i just give it to God. and, every-time He has taken care of the problem far more better than i ever could have. 

good luck on your venture. be wise and exercise control and don't do something that you will regret. a peaceful man stands tall. 

now since you already bought the ticket, and are going to Cali, make sure you enjoy yourself. allow yourself that. go have an In-N-Out burger, visit Venice Beach, etc... God bless and i hope all goes well, for everyone...


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Vega-LE said:


> keep a cool head cause $400 is not worth getting into any trouble. i'm sorry you have had to go through so much trouble. the trouble this has caused you, making you restless, and having a troubled mind has not been worth close to getting upset over loosing the money. and now you are investing into it even more.
> 
> i'm a spiritual man, and have seen people get their just reward for the good and bad they do. when things are out of my control, i just give it to God. and, every-time He has taken care of the problem far more better than i ever could have.
> 
> ...


I have no intentions of handling it in a bad manor... but once I'm able to track him down while I'm out there which I will... he'll have no choice but to talk to me face to face and explain all of this since he's too much of a coward to come on here and explain himself or even do the right thing from the beginning.


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## TwoDrink (Aug 26, 2009)

Vega-LE said:


> i'm a spiritual man, and have seen people get their just reward for the good and bad they do. when things are out of my control, i just give it to God. and, every-time He has taken care of the problem far more better than i ever could have.


Do you happen to have God's email address handy? Because I have a few things I need taken care of. That would be sweet, thanks.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

TwoDrink said:


> Do you happen to have God's email address handy? Because I have a few things I need taken care of. That would be sweet, thanks.


It's called prayer!


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

OP, while your there, perhaps you should grab these other people's goods as well... Glad I actually found this thread. Good to know who you can and cant trust. sad, really is sad.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

If you need some backup to help carry things I'm not too far away.


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## SAM77H (May 19, 2010)

any update on how you went ?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Lets bring this scammer back from the dead....


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

chefhow said:


> Lets bring this scammer back from the dead....


He has been updating his build thread not to long ago.
see here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...gallery/29688-matt-rs-chevrolet-truck-12.html

Unless thats a different MattR. If it is the same then this is just plain wrong.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It's not even MattR...it's Matt Borgardt.

One is Matt Roberts (Matt R) and the other, the one this thread is about is Matt Borgardt (Matt B).

Did you not read the title?



thomasluke said:


> He has been updating his build thread not to long ago.
> see here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...gallery/29688-matt-rs-chevrolet-truck-12.html
> 
> Unless thats a different MattR. If it is the same then this is just plain wrong.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> It's not even MattR...it's Matt Borgardt.
> 
> One is Matt Roberts (Matt R) and the other, the one this thread is about is Matt Borgardt (Matt B).
> 
> Did you not read the title?


OH SH!T! I've got to chill with the i've had one to many posting. Just got back from a local pub with the wife.
I'll Be excusing my self now.:blush:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well as long as you realized the mistake, it's good.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

thomasluke said:


> OH SH!T! I've got to chill with the i've had one to many posting. Just got back from a local pub with the wife.
> I'll Be excusing my self now.:blush:


Thanks


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## boom_squid_2 (Jan 29, 2008)

Any resolve to your problems OP?



I really do feel it for you bro.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

boom_squid_2 said:


> Any resolve to your problems OP?
> 
> 
> 
> I really do feel it for you bro.



Nope... he continues to post on his facebook and backyard installers pretty frequently so he's not dead nor in a midlife crisis situation that would somehow explain all this...


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/BackYard-Installers/5958994969


amazing this guys still alive on facebook.

EDIT: Im Digging a lot up on Matt right now... this is bound to get interesting.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattborgardt


http://173.201.169.170/forums/


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

He actually sent me a message and called me saying he was shipping my subs out on Friday and he would have my tracking info to me. Of course I havent seen anything and I dont expect too, but the dude had the nerve to CALL ME and make it seem like it was no big deal on his voice mail.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

chefhow said:


> He actually sent me a message and called me saying he was shipping my subs out on Friday and he would have my tracking info to me. Of course I havent seen anything and I dont expect too, but the dude had the nerve to CALL ME and make it seem like it was no big deal on his voice mail.


what a tool. I hope his reputation is damaged well enough that he dosent do business in the audio world anymore. unforgivable to act this way.


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## 000zero (Mar 12, 2011)

So did you make it out to CA OP?


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

So what's that Status of this......


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Diezel10 said:


> So what's that Status of this......


Read the previous 6 pages.


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## Eskimo65 (Apr 18, 2012)

Still nothing OP?? 6months is unbelievable... Feel for ya man sorry


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Nothing and no I never made it out there due to losing my job at the time.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

This was messaged to me last week by someone whom im choosing not to mention and I found it very hard not to laugh seeing as I was able to prove 90% of it was b.s.





Hey,

I know Matt really well. I am NOT trying to excuse anything he has done. I would appreciate if this PM info staey between us.

Actually I know another person who was supposed to get somethign modded by him that he has had for over a year so that woul dbring the total to three.

Again I am not saying its Ok, but I do want to explain. Matt is oen of the best tuners/installers/competitors/judges in california. I promote MECA/IASCA and he has judged many many shows for me. We have worked on installls together and he has helped me with sponsorships, installs, tuning, and all kinds of stuff in teh past.

Eric and Matt left Image dynamics becasue the 51% owner was runnign the company into the ground. It took Eric a lot longer than expected to get teh new company up and running. During the last 18 months Matt has been (at times) so poor he ended up sleeping in his car. He can't afford a cell phone or a land line. I am sure that he was using people's money to stay alive, pretty much. On top of that he has been having some serious health problems stemming from medication he was prescribed for a serious skin condition he has.

So, I totally agree with your point 100%, I just thought that you might want to understand why a person who has been a hugely important person to the SQ industry for so long has "flaked out" on so many folks.

If you need some help getting answers from him call me. I will do anything I can to help resolve this. He really is a good guy who has fallen on some very hard times and has let his judgement lapse.





Now, how can someone who doesn't have a cell phone or landline be logged in here for months on there phone not to mention update their personal and business (backyard installers) Facebook... Just blows me away. Even of this were all true... It doesn't take but 25 cents and 2 minutes of your time to make a phone call via a pay phone. I don't know what to think.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Well I have read all of this sad story and have learned a few things. No paypal gifts and do not trust matt b. 

One thing I missed was his user name on here?!?!? 

Did you find another job edgekiller?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

1edgekilla said:


> This was messaged to me last week by someone whom im choosing not to mention and I found it very hard not to laugh seeing as I was able to prove 90% of it was b.s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i do just want to mention that having known Matt for a long time, and having seen him a few months ago, i would say 90 percent of the info you got in that PM is accurate. 

again, doenst excuse whats happening to you at all but i wanted to chime in thats hes not off sunning on a beach sipping margaritas and just keeping everyones money and goods...again, no excuses and you have every right o be mad, but i can tell you for sure that he is not lying to you in PM.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

legend94 said:


> Well I have read all of this sad story and have learned a few things. No paypal gifts and do not trust matt b.
> 
> One thing I missed was his user name on here?!?!?
> 
> Did you find another job edgekiller?


his user name is "Matt Borgardt"


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> i do just want to mention that having known Matt for a long time, and having seen him a few months ago, i would say 90 percent of the info you got in that PM is accurate.
> 
> again, doenst excuse whats happening to you at all but i wanted to chime in thats hes not off sunning on a beach sipping margaritas and just keeping everyones money and goods...again, no excuses and you have every right o be mad, but i can tell you for sure that he is not lying to you in PM.



Bing, please remember that we paid for our product back in October of 2011, that is 8 months since he promised shipment to us. If it was a month, even two that is one thing, but 8 months is inexcusable.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

chefhow said:


> Bing, please remember that we paid for our product back in October of 2011, that is 8 months since he promised shipment to us. If it was a month, even two that is one thing, but 8 months is inexcusable.


More than inexcusable, it shows intent to defraud. Just straight up theft

Sent from my phone using digital farts


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

guys, read my post, i specifically said 

*"doesn't excuse whats happening at all..." *

i just wanna make sure lies and deception and thievery are labeled exactly as that, but other things that are true are not being labeled as such. thats all.

b


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

I just want to add that after reading this there is at least one member on here besides Matt B that I would not deal with. 

While I realize that many are saying I know/knew him and he is this/that....means NOTHING at this point and the LEAST he could have done was posted on this thread.

Hell I was 3 days late sending someone something on here because I had let someone else mail it, I felt so bad that I sent and apology and am going to refund the shipping against the buyers wishes.

If you need any idea how to conduct business, ask ollschool, coppertone, jax, raamaudio, marv, add to list...


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

you know i am going through some of the WORST times of my life right now, and have dealt with a ton of people on here, and with so many things going wrong right now in and around my life and on my mind, i STILL manage to make SURE i take care of the people who have intrusted me with their money from purchases etc. while i may not be able to answer pms and emails right away, im up till the wee hours of the morning makeing sure every one get answered, and anyone on this site has been welcome to my contact # to talk personally as well.. 

So there is absolutely NO REASON this should have been going on this long with the OP and others on this issue.. This is just simply very sad...


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

Noted(Chef)....I've been following this and was just wondering.....and then this piece of info comes along...I hope he gets back to you.

-Diezel10


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

The first good news in months... Matt replied to my comment on the Backyard Installers Facebook page today requesting my address/email. Howard, he says your subs apparently have already been shipped out. I gave him my email so we'll see what happens. If and when I do get it I doubt the mods have been done but its whatever I don't really care at this point.





simplicityinsound said:


> i do just want to mention that having known Matt for a long time, and having seen him a few months ago, i would say 90 percent of the info you got in that PM is accurate.
> 
> again, doenst excuse whats happening to you at all but i wanted to chime in thats hes not off sunning on a beach sipping margaritas and just keeping everyones money and goods...again, no excuses and you have every right o be mad, but i can tell you for sure that he is not lying to you in PM.


If this indeed does hold true than I have sympathy for him... for the first 2 months or so. I have been at that point in my life where I ate dollar menu cheeseburgers for every meal and slept in my car... I know how that feels and how it can take its toll on someone. I however, know that it was not his situation for the entire 8 months... and don't feel that should be looked at as the band-aid in any way what so ever. I realize and understand he may have had some tough times as everyone does... but like many others on here I still took/take care of the things I morally SHOULD take care of for my own sake no matter how bad things are for the most part. Personally though, I'm to the point where I don't care if he has been in Cancun or on his deathbed for the last 8 months... I just want my amp. Thats all.





dman said:


> you know i am going through some of the WORST times of my life right now, and have dealt with a ton of people on here, and with so many things going wrong right now in and around my life and on my mind, i STILL manage to make SURE i take care of the people who have intrusted me with their money from purchases etc. while i may not be able to answer pms and emails right away, im up till the wee hours of the morning makeing sure every one get answered, and anyone on this site has been welcome to my contact # to talk personally as well..
> 
> So there is absolutely NO REASON this should have been going on this long with the OP and others on this issue.. This is just simply very sad...


Well said bud


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Also, I try to be the best I can be with people. I always try to see the better side of things and give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I feel pretty bad about some of the things I've said and just this whole scenario with Matt... I'm really not a confrontational person in situations like this and usually mean no harm even if I am. At the same time though... for the last 8 months I've felt cheated and like I've been taken advantage of...


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## roduk (Sep 19, 2008)

This is the most surprising thread I have ever read on diyma!!!???

I feel sorry for the op of course, but also for MB as his reputation (in my eyes) as one of the industries stalwarts is fading fast


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

roduk said:


> This is the most surprising thread I have ever read on diyma!!!???
> 
> I feel sorry for the op of course, but also for MB as his reputation (in my eyes) as one of the industries stalwarts is fading fast


Fading? Hell I would say rusting now!


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## Eskimo65 (Apr 18, 2012)

Yeah as the OP said, extenuating circumstances are understandable.. but it's well over a half year too late with no word from him for anything like that. IMO 

I've had no dealings with Mike ever, but all his reputation is, is trust.. Takes forever to build, only takes one time to ruin, and MUCH harder to regain once broken. Pretty much the golden rule for anyone with parents ;P

Really hope everyone gets their stuff & can move on from this... Though it's made for some of the most interesting reading material at work off here haha.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I got my email with shipping confirmation from FEDEX. We will see what happens on July 5th when they are supposed to be delivered.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

chefhow said:


> I got my email with shipping confirmation from FEDEX. We will see what happens on July 5th when they are supposed to be delivered.


Same here, we shall see I guess....


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Eskimo65 said:


> I've had no dealings with Mike ever, but all his reputation is, is trust.. Takes forever to build, only takes one time to ruin, and MUCH harder to regain once broken. Pretty much the golden rule for anyone with parents ;P



Well said but we now know how little you know about "Mike" since his name is Matt.


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

Ok!!...Good News!!.......Hopefully you'll receive what you have coming to you on the 5th of July......Good Luck.



Big Deezee.


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## Eskimo65 (Apr 18, 2012)

chefhow said:


> Well said but we now know how little you know about "Mike" since his name is Matt.


Some people get things like that right after reading 7 pages, not me apparently


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

If you guys were to describe getting screwed over by a crackhead, it would sound exactly the same as what happened here.


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## roduk (Sep 19, 2008)

legend94 said:


> Fading? Hell I would say rusting now!


Nope, fading. I said I feel sorry for the OP, but I also feel sorry for Matt. For him to let people down like this there must be some pretty heavy **** going on in his life atm  I hope he's okay...


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I am happy to report that my subs were delivered today in good condition and packed well. THIS DOESNT EXONERATE MATT FROM TAKING 8 MONTHS TO SHIP MY PRODUCTS but it gives me some closure. Not sure of 1edgekilla and if he amp was delivered but I know that a tracking number was emailed to him. Hope you get it soon.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

chefhow said:


> I am happy to report that my subs were delivered today in good condition and packed well. THIS DOESNT EXONERATE MATT FROM TAKING 8 MONTHS TO SHIP MY PRODUCTS but it gives me some closure. Not sure of 1edgekilla and if he amp was delivered but I know that a tracking number was emailed to him. Hope you get it soon.


Damn man i bet you are happy as hell to have not lost them permantley.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Chef I to got my amp however not all the mods were done and it was missing what will be two hard to find set screws.... I however am waiting on a call from Matt to discuss this whole thing and will report back here with my conclusion and better judgment. All in all I'm just glad to finally have my amp.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Set screws are easy to find. Google search for nut and bolt in your city or nearby. Take a screw with you or the amp if you don't have those. Most places can match them easy.

Glad this is finally coming towards what looks like an end. And just so people know, anyone who does something like this will never be allowed to use our classifieds again.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

What mods were not done out of curiosity? And glad you finally received it.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

schmiddr2 said:


> Set screws are easy to find. Google search for nut and bolt in your city or nearby. Take a screw with you or the amp if you don't have those. Most places can match them easy.
> 
> Glad this is finally coming towards what looks like an end. And just so people know, anyone who does something like this will never be allowed to use our classifieds again.


What about people who jerk others around for months saying they're going to buy something and continually ask you to hold it for you..then back out and by it elsewhere and you end up losing out on other potential sales bc of it...can those people be banned from classifieds too?


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> What about people who jerk others around for months saying they're going to buy something and continually ask you to hold it for you..then back out and by it elsewhere and you end up losing out on other potential sales bc of it...can those people be banned from classifieds too?


At least do a pole or vote. I've been dealing with a guy for two weeks and just the final dear john just a few min ago. Could have sold this amp three times but was doing what i said i would. Unlike others.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

Mic10is said:


> What about people who jerk others around for months saying they're going to buy something and continually ask you to hold it for you..then back out and by it elsewhere and you end up losing out on other potential sales bc of it...can those people be banned from classifieds too?


You should not hold something that long, if they dont have the cash then they should be out of luck. Money talks and ******** walks.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> What about people who jerk others around for months saying they're going to buy something and continually ask you to hold it for you..then back out and by it elsewhere and you end up losing out on other potential sales bc of it...can those people be banned from classifieds too?


Guessing this is referring to me... and jerking you around? I told you I was gradually saving up the money for the amp... I personally didn't have the amount you wanted at the time and you could have sold it whenever after I initially asked you to hold it but failed to come up with the funds. I had told you that. Not to mention Matt gave me a price that was about $150 cheaper including additional mods than yours had at the time... so to say I jerked you around Mic? GTFO.

EDIT: I also just recently set something up with a widely known user on here under a similar situation. Didn't have all the money at the time for an amp he had but asked him to hold the amp and make payments. Told him if I didn't make all the payments in the agreed time he could sell it and just refund what I had paid... Needless to say that amp is now in my possession and neither of us had a problem. Pretty simple if you ask me.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Brian_smith06 said:


> What mods were not done out of curiosity? And glad you finally received it.


Brian,

He was supposed to have put two internal fans into it and somehow modded it for airflow as I was going to run it at 1 ohm and from what he told me at the time... the thing ran pretty hot that low.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

1edgekilla said:


> Guessing this is referring to me... and jerking you around? I told you I was gradually saving up the money for the amp... I personally didn't have the amount you wanted at the time and you could have sold it whenever after I initially asked you to hold it but failed to come up with the funds. I had told you that. Not to mention Matt gave me a price that was about $150 cheaper including additional mods than yours had at the time... so to say I jerked you around Mic? GTFO.
> 
> EDIT: I also just recently set something up with a widely known user on here under a similar situation. Didn't have all the money at the time for an amp he had but asked him to hold the amp and make payments. Told him if I didn't make all the payments in the agreed time he could sell it and just refund what I had paid... Needless to say that amp is now in my possession and neither of us had a problem. Pretty simple if you ask me.



I take people on their word for things. I think someones word should be worth alot--but sadly it isnt. people promise to do things, buy things, show up in places and flake all too often these days. integrity is lost in many people.

I hope an 8plus month plus burying someones name in the ground was worth saving the $150 for no more mods than mine have, considering all Mods that are done are based off what was done to my amps...karma is a *****


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> I take people on their word for things. I think someones word should be worth alot--but sadly it isnt. people promise to do things, buy things, show up in places and flake all too often these days. integrity is lost in many people.
> 
> I hope an 8plus month plus burying someones name in the ground was worth saving the $150 for no more mods than mine have, considering all Mods that are done are based off what was done to my amps...karma is a *****



And I will agree with you on 98% of that. However, you make me look like the bad guy here... Regardless of the circumstance, it is not my fault Matt waited nearly 8 months to ship my amp without ever emailing/calling or updating me. My intent nor anything I ever really said however, was intended to "bury someones name in the ground." Read back a few posts and you will see I mention feeling bad about the whole situation and how it looks on Matt's behalf... I am not the type of person to purposely destroy someones reputation nor would I do that and for what it did do I still carry a guilty conscience regardless of whether he deserved it or not. Just because I didn't buy your amp and you feel otherwise does not mean I have no morals and/or a lack of integrity. On top of that, after thinking it through...I was exchanging emails with Matt yesterday after having received the amp and decided on my better judgment... I simply asked for an honest explanation as to why it took nearly 9 months for me to get my amp without a phone call or email and I would see to it that I did my best to clear his name. That is me giving someone who more or less took advantage of me and my money another chance. Even after all the ******** I went through and the money I initially lost... Sure, money like that might not be no big deal to someone like yourself but I'm a broke ass college student who has very little money to spare for leisure and when I do it is car audio I chose. You speak as if you hold yourself to such high standards as well as those around you... but find yourself in a similar situation whether it be buying an amp or buying a new house... I'm pretty sure your choice of actions wouldn't be too far fetched from mine.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Another thing Mic, although that extra $150 or so that I saved did mean something to me and was "worth" it at the time... I don't see anywhere on here where you've had a similar issue or been taken for a decent amount of money. If you have then you know how it feels. On top of that, going back to your views of my lack of integrity if you will... despite the fact that I didn't have the money at the time to buy your amp and still to this day don't have much to spare... when I do, I do my best and far share to help others regardless of who it is. Take for instance this thread... people were stepping up to help out Will... I offered and don't even know the guy. I'm not trying to justify anything here but where was your offering? After he concluded he didn't want the money I went out of my way to be the one to PM him and explain to him how to set up paypal so he could sell the gear he had and I believe still has for sale. Whether he actually did or not I don't know. Going back to my point though... just because your butt-hurt over me not buying your amp doesn't classify me as a bad person or someone with a lack of integrity. I understand you might be mad I asked you to hold it at first and ended up not purchasing it... I would too. But again... I don't believe I made any bad decisions that you yourself wouldn't have made... and you're right... Karma is a *****.


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## mos805 (Nov 30, 2011)

Well all else aside, glad you finally got your amp, hopefully you can now enjoy it as much as possible.


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## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

ALRIGHT!!!.....I am glad you fellas got your **** back!! So on with your builds.


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## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> What about people who jerk others around for months saying they're going to buy something and continually ask you to hold it for you..then back out and by it elsewhere and you end up losing out on other potential sales bc of it...can those people be banned from classifieds too?


As they say in the business game, "money talks and BS walks." As a seller, you are under ZERO obligation to hold an item for someone without payment; this isn't a 1920's neighborhood grocery. If someone PM's you or replies in your thread first, then it is considerate to give them priority and give them a chance to make a purchase, but if they are taking multiple days to get back to you or are on the fence for what you consider an extended period of time, then you are well within your seller's ethics to move onto the next person if there are other interested parties. You can still be fair, even if you're being firm. If they don't know what they want to buy or if they want to buy it, then they shouldn't be replying in the for sale section. If they don't have the money to buy it, then they have no business wasting my time. Save up some money, and when you have enough, we'll talk if it's still available and there isn't anyone in front of you in queue. After not getting a definite answer and/or request for payment instructions for what you consider an acceptable period of time, I'd start moving on. For me it's about a day if another potential buyer comes forward, coupled with a warning email of "I haven't heard from you, and if I don't hear anything by the end of tomorrow, I'm sorry but I have to protect myself and move on to the next buyer," along with a quick email explaining the situation to the next interested party.

The OP said that he paid in two parts originally; I wouldn't even have accepted that, or even if I did, if he was taking more than the accepted time to send the rest of the money (I wouldn't have given him more than 3-4 days, if you want the product that badly you can go to a bank or one of those cash advance places), and someone then came along wanting to buy my merchandise, I would have refunded him his partial payment and made the sale to the next guy.

So, no, that is not a reason to ban a buyer from the classifieds. It's your fault as the seller for not making the executive decision to get your stuff sold. Unlike thomasluke or you, I would not have given the original potential buyer any kind of grace at my expense, passing up actual money in my pocket.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

shnitz said:


> As they say in the business game, "money talks and BS walks." As a seller, you are under ZERO obligation to hold an item for someone without payment; this isn't a 1920's neighborhood grocery. If someone PM's you or replies in your thread first, then it is considerate to give them priority and give them a chance to make a purchase, but if they are taking multiple days to get back to you or are on the fence for what you consider an extended period of time, then you are well within your seller's ethics to move onto the next person if there are other interested parties. You can still be fair, even if you're being firm. If they don't know what they want to buy or if they want to buy it, then they shouldn't be replying in the for sale section. If they don't have the money to buy it, then they have no business wasting my time. Save up some money, and when you have enough, we'll talk if it's still available and there isn't anyone in front of you in queue. After not getting a definite answer and/or request for payment instructions for what you consider an acceptable period of time, I'd start moving on. For me it's about a day if another potential buyer comes forward, coupled with a warning email of "I haven't heard from you, and if I don't hear anything by the end of tomorrow, I'm sorry but I have to protect myself and move on to the next buyer," along with a quick email explaining the situation to the next interested party.
> 
> The OP said that he paid in two parts originally; I wouldn't even have accepted that, or even if I did, if he was taking more than the accepted time to send the rest of the money (I wouldn't have given him more than 3-4 days, if you want the product that badly you can go to a bank or one of those cash advance places), and someone then came along wanting to buy my merchandise, I would have refunded him his partial payment and made the sale to the next guy.
> 
> So, no, that is not a reason to ban a buyer from the classifieds. It's your fault as the seller for not making the executive decision to get your stuff sold. Unlike thomasluke or you, I would not have given the original potential buyer any kind of grace at my expense, passing up actual money in my pocket.


I don't disagree with you but when someone shows extreme interest and you make payment arrangements and a set date payment is to be made (including I offered to take payments) and then they flake the day the payment is due...claims they have no funds to even pursue buying anything and then within a couple weeks buys the same item that they found cheaper...then proceeds to drag others through the mud...I'm sure you'd be a bit pissed too.
Again.I guess its 100% my fault for taking someone on their word


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## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> I don't disagree with you but when someone shows extreme interest and you make payment arrangements and a set date payment is to be made (including I offered to take payments) and then they flake the day the payment is due...claims they have no funds to even pursue buying anything and then within a couple weeks buys the same item that they found cheaper...then proceeds to drag others through the mud...I'm sure you'd be a bit pissed too.
> Again.I guess its 100% my fault for taking someone on their word


If there is no one else in line, then I am lenient with my payment arrangement dates. If there's someone else in line, especially a definite buyer, then I give a little more hard and fast deadlines. Again, if they don't have the money, then they aren't a serious buyer. It's not your job to provide layaway or to act as a bank. They are more than free to secure funds through any way that they wish. Asking friends/family/parents, getting a short term loan from a bank or a cash advance loan through most any pawn shop or the various cash advance places through any city, etc. Give them however much time you think is reasonable, I'd say about 24 hours, or maybe 2 days if you're generous. Let the second-in-line know that there is a potential buyer, and tell him the deadline after which it's his purchase to make.

You have no idea what happened to the potential buyer's situation. With every hobby, there is the "acquisition syndrome" that hobbyists go through. Maybe he didn't have the money at the time and then got a bonus or inheritance. Maybe he realized there was something he owned that he was able to unload on Craigslist; when I sold some car audio equipment a while ago I turned around and splurged on camera gear, completely unexpected purchases. Or, as often happens with me, once I get an idea in my head, like upgrading the head unit, I often go through a period of researching, checking out the forums, but even if I walk away and tell myself that I'll save the purchase for later, I usually end up buying it. I had a DEH-P500UB in my car but my girlfriend wanted us to have Bluetooth, so I researched current Pioneer headunits, looked at what they offered, wasn't completely satisfied with some features I'd be giving up, but a few days ago I just bit the bullet and upgraded.


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## 1edgekilla (Feb 17, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> I don't disagree with you but when someone shows extreme interest and you make payment arrangements and a set date payment is to be made (including I offered to take payments) and then they flake the day the payment is due...claims they have no funds to even pursue buying anything and then within a couple weeks buys the same item that they found cheaper...then proceeds to drag others through the mud...I'm sure you'd be a bit pissed too.
> Again.I guess its 100% my fault for taking someone on their word


Mic, I couldn't make the payments because I didn't have the money at the time once again. You had "set a date" without even talking to me to see if I was able to make the payment date to begin with. Though I tried I was unable to. Again, after that I did tell you I didn't care if you sold the amp to another potential buyer... shortly there after I had lost all interest in buying the amp from you simply because I knew I wasn't going to be able to save up enough to buy it and did not want to keep you waiting any longer. It wasn't until late October that I had saved up enough money from a job I started in mid september to even think about purchasing another amp. I wasn't even sure if I still wanted to go with that route and spent weeks debating on it. It was then Matt ended up posting the one he had for sale up and being that it was cheaper I figured wth that was my opportunity to grab it from the man himself at a significantly cheaper amount. Again, can you blame me? Now, i'll admit... had I known I would go through the 8 month ordeal I did I would have spent the extra $150 and still bought yours hands down... but that's just it, I didn't know. Initially asking you to hold it and not coming through with the money was wrong on my part and I apologize for that... but seriously... you're taking this a little too far and portraying me and the situation to be far worse than it is. If you never want to do business with me again, fine I understand... but seriously, don't sit here and act like im the biggest ******* when your judging me on one bad decision that came back and bit me in the ass anyways.


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