# Proper door enclosure for a 8" HAT Legatia



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

So I'm exhausting with researching conflicting theories as towards the best way to get midbass from a door, especially after Scott Buwalda himself says i only need deadener for my 300c doora to sound good.

When i mounted the 8 with no deadener or sealing, there was almost no midbass, while my o.e.m Boston 6x9's are fantastic. Big problem when you spend this much on two door speakers lol... I'm confident i can fix this though by deadening the door and covering the hole , right?

Or will the Unity 6x9 give more bass in my situation than trying to make the L8's work?

Here's my door, and my build: 
















































http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...2006-chrysler-300c-hat-build.html#post3442209

Thanks everyone!


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## Focused4door (Aug 15, 2015)

I suppose it's possible the new midbass doesn't seal as well, are there any leaks causing the output to be lower?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Bikerbrah said:


> So I'm exhausting with researching conflicting theories as towards the best way to get midbass from a door, especially after Scott Buwalda himself says i only need deadener for my 300c doora to sound good.
> 
> When i mounted the 8 with no deadener or sealing, there was almost no midbass, while my o.e.m Boston 6x9's are fantastic. Big problem when you spend this much on two door speakers lol... I'm confident i can fix this though , right?
> 
> ...



Here's the deal most likely and I experience this allot . 

When you make rings like you did and bring the speaker further out from the door than stock or what not midbass goes down. 

Why? 

A speaker needs a plane for the wave to get going in the right direction. 
If a speaker is mounted away from the flat surface like on a ring mounted away from the door skin the "bass" dosent have a anything to push off from. If you think about it it makes sense. Think of the speaker moving back and forward. Low frequency is much much longer than the size of the cone, you need approx 1/4th the wavelength of flat surface for it to get going. If the speaker is raised above the flat surface and the speakers excursions are less than the distance the speaker is elevated off the flat surface it won't be able to gain momentum and basically just be a moving cone at that point and won't be pistonic. Yeah some will still make it but the majority will be lost and the air instead of moving forward will radiate around the edge of the speaker. As frequency rises and the cone become 1/4th wavelength the cone itself supports the wave more and more as it rises all the way up to the point that when frequency is so high it is smaller than the size of the cone it than starts to beam its energy streight forward or in a lobed shape. 

Fast rings are great . Basicly sealed foam rings that couple the speakers ring to the door card. So all the air goes through the grill and uses the door panel as the plain
The same thing hold true for subwoofers. the larger the baffle board the more efficient the system would be in low frequency. 

The factory speaker probably was fitted to the door panel perfectly and in my guess is why your experience this.


Have you tryed fast rings? 

I'm not saying this IS the case but 9x10 it is. 

That link just takes you to diy home page. Would love to check out your build. I bet it's pretty nice if Scott is helping you  

Cheers


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## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

I've been awaiting some updates, brah! Do you have pics of the rings mounted in the door? They look good. Are the rings sealed to the doors?


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

danssoslow said:


> I've been awaiting some updates, brah! Do you have pics of the rings mounted in the door? They look good. Are the rings sealed to the doors?


Fixed 

I haven't done any sealing or deadening yet, as i want to make sure i'm going about everything right first


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

So would I be better off with two Unity 6x9's? Or can I get the 8's to sound WAYYY better by deadening the door panel, and adding some kind of foam sealant around the 8, to seal off with the door panel somehow?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Bikerbrah said:


> So would I be better off with two Unity 6x9's? Or can I get the 8's to sound WAYYY better by deadening the door panel, and adding some kind of foam sealant around the 8, to seal off with the door panel somehow?


You should be able to get them to sound better. 

Have you ran a rta and found where the peaks are? You may just have a nasty peak that needs turned down.

A big peak will make it when you turn it up loud and the only thing getting loud is the peak making all other frequency suffer. 

I like the pics. Sick install so far I like the router work looks good man


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Step 1. Go to salvage yard and get matching door cards. Check for prices on complete doors too.

Step 2. Get some fiber glass and resin and material to make your rings.

Step 3. Calculate your sealed volume needed for your desired freq resp.*

Step 4. Build your *sealed* pods using the salvaged door panels. Keep the original panels if you need to return to stock. If you have complete doors, you can build everything on a bench, which makes construction way easier. 

Step 5. Enjoy


*If you are as a bit shy of the desired volume, you can use Linkwitz transform to help out in the bottom octave. 

You can sell off all the individual components in the door, and/or the door itself if you bought complete doors. To me, it was well worth it to have complete extra set of doors. In fact, I still have mine to use to do mock ups if I ever change anything (which I will most likely do at some point). I can just throw them up on a work bench and take my time and not stress.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Orion525iT said:


> Step 1. Go to salvage yard and get matching door cards. Check for prices on complete doors too.
> 
> Step 2. Get some fiber glass and resin and material to make your rings.
> 
> ...


L8's need to be infinite baffle


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Bikerbrah said:


> L8's need to be infinite baffle


Why?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Orion525iT said:


> Why?


all HAT speakers are designed for IB use. i guess they dont "NEED" to be IB, but thats certainly what they were intended for


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> A speaker needs a plane for the wave to get going in the right direction.
> If a speaker is mounted away from the flat surface like on a ring mounted away from the door skin the "bass" dosent have a anything to push off from. If you think about it it makes sense. Think of the speaker moving back and forward. Low frequency is much much longer than the size of the cone, you need approx 1/4th the wavelength of flat surface for it to get going. If the speaker is raised above the flat surface and the speakers excursions are less than the distance the speaker is elevated off the flat surface it won't be able to gain momentum and basically just be a moving cone at that point and won't be pistonic. Yeah some will still make it but the majority will be lost and the air instead of moving forward will radiate around the edge of the speaker. As frequency rises and the cone become 1/4th wavelength the cone itself supports the wave more and more as it rises all the way up to the point that when frequency is so high it is smaller than the size of the cone it than starts to beam its energy streight forward or in a lobed shape.


why do i feel like this isnt true? can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

yes - those 8s need to see as much air behind them as possible. do not build an enclosure for them.

the way you have them installed should work well - provided you seal up the door proper and send them adequate power and do the necessary tuning.

did you simply connect them up to the factory speaker wires/amp?


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

If you are getting blow by at the top of the card were the seal meets the window, you will get poor response no matter what. You can't fix that; you are literally sitting at the edge of an open baffle speaker (some of the back wave will be blocked, but you get my point). 

The only solution is sealed. Not getting the response you want from sealed? Use dsp. Of course thermal/power limits must be considered. 

Still waiting for someone to tell me why these must be IB. Specifically, what parameter dictates this constraint?


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Btw, I am not suggesting that leaky door card is the only problem.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Orion525iT said:


> Btw, I am not suggesting that leaky door card is the only problem.


Off the top of my head i remember they have a High qts, low-ish xmax (as measured by others). Model them and find out

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## XR250rdr (Mar 22, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> why do i feel like this isnt true? can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this?


It sounds crazy. The baffle size only affects high frequency dispersion.

The stock mids in my 4Runner are elevated from the door skin and have plenty of output. It would also mean a sonotube subwoofer wouldn't work.

I think the issue here is the door panel (the grill portion actually) is used to seal off the front wave from the rear wave. I bet if Bikerbrah posted a picture of the back of the grill there is a ring that will mate with the front of the stock 6x9.

I would try installing the door panel and temporarily sealing up around the L8. Then see if midbass output improves.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm so exhausted with spending every minute of my life researching this answer. Wish someone would just finally tell what to do so i can enjoy this wonderful product.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't understand. You are four hours away from ridiculous midbass. Stop over-thinking it, and pick who to listen to. 

1. You own the L8SE, some of the finest midbass in car audio, and you want to step down to a 6X9. You own the 8's right? They're not on loan from a friend? If you own them, keep them.

2. Fiberglass resin the MDF pods, front to back. If you don't, you'll have a soggy mess in six months.

3. While you wait for the resin to dry, remove the vapor barrier, clean up all of the residual gunk with rubbing alcohol, and do two full, solid layers of sound damping (brand unimportant) over the metal to seal all holes on the door panel metal. Use a roller and heat to get it to apply properly. The drip holes in the bottom of the door should be left alone to recreate an infinite baffle scenario. All you're concerned with right now is sealing front wave from back wave.

4. Now the pods are dry. Bolt them to the door. Be sure there's sound damping between the metal and the wooden pod, to act as a decoupler.

With all due respect, I have given you weeks of replies on Facebook instant messenger with all you need to know to do this job properly. Stop making it difficult and just do it. <thumbs up>


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> why do i feel like this isnt true? can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this?


Im not buying this one, either.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

XR250rdr said:


> SkizeR said:
> 
> 
> > why do i feel like this isnt true? can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this?
> ...


How can i connect from my door panel, to my l8? Fleece and resin?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

This is what you need to make your door look like.


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## XR250rdr (Mar 22, 2011)

Bikerbrah said:


> How can i connect from my door panel, to my l8? Fleece and resin?


Listen to Scott.

I just meant to stuff something in there temporarily like a towel to prove the concept that your door is leaky. It would give you an idea if you need to seal up the door better or not. If you haven't worked to seal up the door at all that is what you need to do.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm going to add that the brand of vibration damper you apply is absolutely inportant. There are huge differences in performance between brands. And I mean HUGE if you pick the wrong one.


To clarify huge, the top testing brands reduce resonance by 6db more than some other well respected brands. And that doesn't include the budget brands that perform horribly.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

oabeieo said:


> A speaker needs a plane for the wave to get going in the right direction.


I wanted to quote this before it gets edited or deleted.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I'm going to add that the brand of vibration damper you apply is absolutely inportant. There are huge differences in performance between brands. And I mean HUGE if you pick the wrong one.


Two layers of sound damping is meant to seal front and back waves. A distant secondary reason is vibration control, which brand name importance is mitigated by having two full layers.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Scott Buwalda said:


> I don't understand. You are four hours away from ridiculous midbass. Stop over-thinking it, and pick who to listen to.
> 
> 1. You own the L8SE, some of the finest midbass in car audio, and you want to step down to a 6X9. You own the 8's right? They're not on loan from a friend? Id you own them, keep them.
> 
> ...



You're absolutely right. I'm probably over thinking this lol. I just want the most bang for the buck. I was just worried that my situation would benefit more from a 6x9 instead of an extruded 8", especially since i haven't cut the metal to an 8" hole, it's still a 6x9 hole. I'll take a pic later.

So, the pod would be better than making a fiberglass enclosure out of my door panel around the pod to add air space? 

How does everyone bolt their pods to their doors? I did mine connecting layer by later so I'll have to change it


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

can you remove the vapor barrier from the door and take some pics to show what's underneith?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Two layers of sound damping is meant to seal front and back waves. A distant secondary reason is vibration control, which brand name importance is mitigated by having two full layers.


Scott, I'm not sure if you've seen my testing or not, but I have around 40 brands of cld on hand, and have tested over half of them, using a controlled test rig in a controlled environment, with a calibrated measurement mic. One thing that has been shown, is that brands vary highly in performance. Another thing that has been shown, is a second layer is almost useless. Because of the way cld works, the second layer is not actually damping the metal, it's damping the constraining layer of the first layer of damping. That means it's really just adding weight, which is a horribly inefficient way to reduce vibration. In order to get a 3db drop in vibration from adding weight, you have to double mass (the combined mass of the panel and any thing attached to it). That's pretty measly when the first layer of a good product can drop the resonant frequency by as much as 14db.


I would argue if he is already using fiberglass to seal the baffle, to create some fiberglass plugs for the holes in the door panel and bolt them to the door solidly. This will go much further than any amount of vibration damper over the large holes.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Scott Buwalda said:


> I wanted to quote this before it gets edited or deleted.


:laugh::laugh:


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Ok, before everybody goes too crazy, have you checked for proper polarity of you wiring? One midbass wired opposite the other can kill bass response........after you check, and double check that....then proceed with the recommendations......


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## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Scott, I'm not sure if you've seen my testing or not, but I have around 40 brands of cld on hand, and have tested over half of them, using a controlled test rig in a controlled environment, with a calibrated measurement mic. One thing that has been shown, is that brands vary highly in performance. Another thing that has been shown, is a second layer is almost useless. Because of the way cld works, the second layer is not actually damping the metal, it's damping the constraining layer of the first layer of damping. That means it's really just adding weight, which is a horribly inefficient way to reduce vibration. In order to get a 3db drop in vibration from adding weight, you have to double mass (the combined mass of the panel and any thing attached to it). That's pretty measly when the first layer of a good product can drop the resonant frequency by as much as 14db.
> 
> 
> I would argue if he is already using fiberglass to seal the baffle, to create some fiberglass plugs for the holes in the door panel and bolt them to the door solidly. This will go much further than any amount of vibration damper over the large holes.


You are absolutely correct. 

But if my dear friend would have "named dropped" a specific brand, he probably would have been hung on the cross for doing so. 


Carry on.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

i would still like to know if this is still running off stock power.

there is plenty of solid advice in this thread and his other threads. i have tried to give him advice a few times in his other threads and it seems to fall on deaf ears. any time solid advice is given, a new thread pops up. *shrug*

my best honest advice at this point is to seek out a professional installer. you have all the equipment - spend some dollars on a professional install and you'll have one kickass system.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

benny z said:


> i would still like to know if this is still running off stock power.
> 
> there is plenty of solid advice in this thread and his other threads. i have tried to give him advice a few times in his other threads and it seems to fall on deaf ears. any time solid advice is given, a new thread pops up. *shrug*
> 
> my best honest advice at this point is to seek out a professional installer. you have all the equipment - spend some dollars on a professional install and you'll have one kickass system.


Seriously? If you were so active in my other threads, you would already know that im using a 4 channel amp and a Helix DSP. So before you insult me, make sure you know what you're talking about. Just because YOU gave advice, doesn't mean i should drop everything and ignore everyone else. I had no idea you were the God of audio man...


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

claydo said:


> Ok, before everybody goes too crazy, have you checked for proper polarity of you wiring? One midbass wired opposite the other can kill bass response........after you check, and double check that....then proceed with the recommendations......


I only have one side done so far because i want to get one side right before i go crazy on my door panels lol


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Bikerbrah said:


> Seriously? If you were so active in my other threads, you would already know that im using a 4 channel amp and a Helix DSP.


i have seen pics of your equipment, but haven't seen an update indicating it was installed, thus the question. maybe it was in one of the threads i didn't see. it certainly helps to have all your info in one thread.

how is the 4-channel amp configured? what all is it driving?

cheers!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeah, you don't want to seal up those 8s. You will not have anywhere near the right amount of airspace for them, and a small enclosure will choke the low end response.

Run the parameters through your favorite enclosure program and see. Those L8s won't like the fractions of a cubic foot that you will get in your doors.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Are you meaning that I'll be fine the way i am?


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

benny z said:


> Bikerbrah said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously? If you were so active in my other threads, you would already know that im using a 4 channel amp and a Helix DSP.
> ...


It's a temporary $100 Precision Power 1600.4AB 

- 130x4 @ 4ohm

Also powering my L3SE's


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You'd want to do what Scott and others have said to do- seal up the outside of the door with your favorite mat...I would use a nice butyl mat and stay away from the asphalt based mats. Add something like those FAST rings to get the sound directly into the cabin.

But do not, do not build sealed enclosures for them in your doors. You will not like it. I have the same 8s and ran the numbers on them, and you will need a really large sealed enclosure to make them happy- much much larger than you would ever get in your doors.

Mine will be in the kicks vented through the unibody of the car.

But let those speakers breathe.

If you get rattles between the door and the door panel, stuff a lot of polyfill in there between the two. I always put so much in that the clips barely hold the panel to the door panel and put 2 or 3 screws in the door panel to hold it tight to the door. Gets a lot of the rattles out.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> why do i feel like this isnt true? can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this?


Gosh dam , 

Give me a few min to pull the links that I can

The rest is from 1/4 century of experience



Here's some info
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/U_and_H_Frames.pdf

Here's more info 

http://www.teufelaudio.com/blog/audio-knowledge/speaker-enclosures/

I'll get more later. Give me a few .


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> why do i feel like this isnt true? can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this?


Here's another really good one for you

Diffraction from baffle edges

Oh and a few more just incase you want to do some reading up 

dumb question: what does a baffle do? - diyAudio


http://youtu.be/Ol-dM0dUjqU


http://youtu.be/AxCpUUB5fDI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WKCFHGwRY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EXuHlBy4M


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

oabeieo said:


> Here's another really good one for you
> 
> Diffraction from baffle edges
> 
> ...



oh damn, in your face Nick!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Either way, no door is a quarter wavelength of 80hz. I guess I should start making my sub boxes with 20 foot wide baffles 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

And yes, we know you have a quarter century experience in the field. You use that as a crutch every time you need to have a claim help up

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

XR250rdr said:


> It sounds crazy. The baffle size only affects high frequency dispersion.
> 
> The stock mids in my 4Runner are elevated from the door skin and have plenty of output. It would also mean a sonotube subwoofer wouldn't work.
> 
> ...



The stock mids also have a foam gasket around the speaker . I've worked on a few 4runners 

If it's a newer one the speaker has fitted directly to the door panel and the door panel has plastic edge the goes around the speaker 

Switch to aftermarket speakers and build a ring the is no where near the size shape of the factory speaker 

Nobody is saying there is ZERO output with no baffle, just a increase in efficiency as I stated in my forst post. 

Sure there's a lot of variables at play. Car size width leinght height etc. the speaker itself , power , location, baffle, mount, the list goes on and on and on so can we say with absolute certainty a correct baffle is golden. No of course not. 

Back in the old days they back loaded speakers because of the effect the baffle had on the driver, and also for asthectis , etc. 

I was in no way saying that is it empirical . 

But he had a 6x9 in the same location and same car, the only thing he did diffrent was the ring and speaker .


So I used very basic reasoning and suggested that could be a reason why.

Why? 

Because I've read about it . 

Also I just so happen to be a installer in a very very very busy shop and guess what; almost ALL Japanese cars or European cars need a ring made to adapt the speaker. Very often the new speaker has less bass. 

Funny how like Chevys and fords that don't require a ring always have considerable more bass output from door speakers. 

Throughout the YEARS I have taken before and after measurements, after adding fast rings the bass is restored. 

So if the speaker is ONLY 1/4" from the door panel you would think most of the spl would make it out the grill. And it dosent at low frequencies. So what's happening?

Is the air pressure or spl moving sideways? Why isn't it going starring out?

Because the power responce of the speaker. 

If a speaker is in the power responce it goes in all directions. 

But what does most of it go into the door panel?

On a Chevy or ford it goes in the door panel also but the bass responce is still good , why is that? What effect does elevating the speaker really play On the bass performance of the speaker. 

After tens of thousands deck n 2s I have come to the solid conclusion that the ring has a effect of the bass performance. 

I can not say it is the soul reason, just a big contributor. 

What's crazy is I used a spl meter and measured right in front of a speaker on a ring and moved the mic, and the highest spl is usually right on the edge of the ring. 

The 1/4 wave of 250hz is approximately 1.13 


I'm not speaking about deep bass now but it does play a role. 
I'm mostly speaking in terms of visceral impact in the 160-350 hz range

And raising the speaker off the door skin does make a difference.

If y'all want I would be happy to waste a hour tomorrow and do some testing and make a video and do some measurements of a ring mounted speaker with and without the ring installed . 

And with and without a fast ring installed. 

Or not because I am tired and have much better things to do. 

Maybe fast rings are a waste of money and a gimmick......
It's subjective anyway right. So whatever. But they do work. I've seen it countless times.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> Either way, no door is a quarter wavelength of 80hz. I guess I should start making my sub boxes with 20 foot wide baffles
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




Seriously? 


Yeah .... Huh huh huh I'm going make some IB subs too with no baffle and watch it win spl compitions as well .


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> Seriously?
> 
> 
> Yeah .... Huh huh huh I'm going make some IB subs too with no baffle and watch it win spl compitions as well .


well in your words, said baffle would need to be about 14 feet in each direction around the sub. you know, to push 20hz in the right direction..


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> well in your words, said baffle would need to be about 14 feet in each direction around the sub. you know, to push 20hz in the right direction..


I never said 14 feet ever. I said if the baffle is at least 1/4 wave a increase in efficiency. I never said how much either 


I think I'm with Erin H now and am going to quit posting entirely. 

You have made me sick to my stomach, and make being on here no fun. 

It just sucks every single time I post anything you have to minimize what I'm saying , completely miss the spirit in what I'm saying , and than talk down to me. 

That sucks man  

I'm done .


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ima jump in here for a question. The way he has the speakers on the stacked mdf. Does that tube length cause any acoustical issue? I dont mean his install particularly and I dont mean with the door card problem hes ignoring. I just mean the actual "tube" thats created before it opens up to the inside of the door


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> I never said 14 feet ever. I said if the baffle is at least 1/4 wave a increase in efficiency. I never said how much either
> 
> 
> I think I'm with Erin H now and am going to quit posting entirely.
> ...


gotta remember, this is car audio. all sound theory where it would apply just fine in an anechoic chamber goes out the window. your just adding a ton of confusion to a member whos already clearly confused with even the simple task of sealing the door. gotta ween out the bad so people who dont know better wont take it literal. and bye i guess, i know jerry will be fond of this news lol


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

benny z said:


> i would still like to know if this is still running off stock power.
> 
> there is plenty of solid advice in this thread and his other threads. i have tried to give him advice a few times in his other threads and it seems to fall on deaf ears. any time solid advice is given, a new thread pops up. *shrug*
> 
> my best honest advice at this point is to seek out a professional installer. you have all the equipment - spend some dollars on a professional install and you'll have one kickass system.


No offense,

But talking about someone in thread about them in a negative way sucks. That what makes being on here no fun . 

It's like talking behind someone's back while there standing right there.

I quit .

This place is just no fun any more.


I know why the very cool people and best of car audio people hardly ever give anything more than 1 liners. Why should they let anyone trample on there reputation.


I'm so over it


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> gotta remember, this is car audio. all sound theory where it would apply just fine in an anechoic chamber goes out the window. your just adding a ton of confusion to a member whos already clearly confused with even the simple task of sealing the door. gotta ween out the bad so people who dont know better wont take it literal. and bye i guess, i know jerry will be fond of this news lol


Blah blah blah blah blah


Didn't even read it and I'm not going to either 

Bye skizer


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hey jerry, i did it!


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## douggiestyle (Apr 29, 2008)

You should deaden your door whether you run 8s or 6x9s.

Even if your problem isn't fixed with deadening, you're not losing out on any money/time by doing something that contributes so much to sound quality that there are stickys, countless threads, a few in-depth studies (including TSTF's) and pictures of deadening in nearly every high quality build in the build log section.

If you are able to fix the issue without deadening (IE polarity or a wrong xover setting) you should still be deadening your door. Why drop hundreds of dollars on a high performance driver and cut corners on the small stuff? It's like buying a Ferrari and putting generic tires on.


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

oabeieo said:


> I never said 14 feet ever. I said if the baffle is at least 1/4 wave a increase in efficiency. I never said how much either
> 
> 
> I think I'm with Erin H now and am going to quit posting entirely.
> ...


Hey man it's all good he wasn't trying to upset you or anything lol just stating his side. I very much appreciate your experience with fast rings!



douggiestyle said:


> You should deaden your door whether you run 8s or 6x9s.
> 
> Even if your problem isn't fixed with deadening, you're not losing out on any money/time by doing something that contributes so much to sound quality that there are stickys, countless threads, a few in-depth studies (including TSTF's) and pictures of deadening in nearly every high quality build in the build log section.
> 
> If you are able to fix the issue without deadening (IE polarity or a wrong xover setting) you should still be deadening your door. Why drop hundreds of dollars on a high performance driver and cut corners on the small stuff? It's like buying a Ferrari and putting generic tires on.


Actually, i'm quite aware of how to deaden my door. My question is whether to cover the holes with deadener, something solid, or make a fiberglass enclosure in this situation...



SkizeR said:


> gotta remember, this is car audio. all sound theory where it would apply just fine in an anechoic chamber goes out the window. your just adding a ton of confusion to a member whos already clearly confused with even the simple task of sealing the door. gotta ween out the bad so people who dont know better wont take it literal. and bye i guess, i know jerry will be fond of this news lol


Is that your way of passive aggressively insulting me -_-? I know how to seal a door, in many ways. What i'm asking is for advice on the proper way, in my situation. 



This is getting ridiculous. People already fighting by page 3. Now I know why people joking to other's threads about "let's see if you make it past page * before war loooool"

I'm going out to deaden my door right now.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Seal it with fiberglass.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Bikerbrah said:


> Is that your way of passive aggressively insulting me -_-? I know how to seal a door, in many ways. What i'm asking is for advice on the proper way, in my situation.


nope. just going off context clues from others who have said they have tried to help you.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> nope. just going off context clues from others who have said they have tried to help you.


I see. Well then In that case, i'll adopt your concept. So thus, based on context clues i've gotten from others, you're a douche.


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Update!!! I think I've come up with why the Boston 6x9 is noticeably louder!!

IMPEDANCE!

The Boston MUST be 2 ohm!!! (vs 4 ohm Legatia)


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Update again:

Sounds much better after the first layer of deadener!


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## Horuspeed (Dec 2, 2010)

Hi, Some photos to give you an idea:

































Maybe you should cut a bigger hole behind the speaker...
The CLD is not enough for the rigidity of your door frame, you should use the layer of cld to mold a fiberglass panel and bolt it to the metal
( NVX CLD is not in the top 10 of the CLD Brand, regardless of the price...)
And don't forget: CLD ( vibrations) > CCF ( decoupling) > MLV ( noise barrier)

Good Job, a few things to improve.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Actually, the problem with NVX brand deadener isn't it's damping performance, which has tested to be about as good as dynamat and second skin. The problem is its heat resistance. It may not survive a summer in your doors.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

You will greatly benefit from spending a few more hours deadening the insides, outsides, and the several layers of deadener on the door and door card itself... You can seal up the larger holes with aluminum sheet metal (Thin Gauge) of course. Some people prefer to fiberglass, I prefer using Metal... 

You MUST soak those rings in MDF, some people you automotive rocker guard, I (Most) prefer using resin... Those Rings will turn into mush in no time. Do it right and you can be comfortable once you put the door back on that things are done right and you won't be wondering if things are taking a dump behind there.

As much gains as you have made, you can increase those gains 5X over from where you are right now.. If those 8's are new they'll need 20-30 Hours for the suspension to loosen up.. I'm getting into a pissing contest with anyone about breaking speaking in, and whether it's a myth or not.... I've owned L8's. It makes a big difference on output and low frequency extension. I'm not sure how much power you're feeding them, but they love power so you are going to benefit from sending them some juice.

Some food for thought, and don't take this personally at all, it's not a personal attack, but when you have numourous people, including the owner/designer of the company pointing you in the right path whose is also one of the most decorated installers competitors in the World, along with many other knowledgeable and greatly respected people, (Not Myself). You need to take their advice into serious consideration... It seems like you are asking questions, but already have the answers... Again not trying to attack you, just pointing out how you are coming across.. This seems to be a growing trend by many people on this forum now and it discourages knowledgeable people from even engaging in the conversation all together.

Many have left and never came back and it's a damn shame.

Good luck to your install, you have all the tools you need to be successful. ��


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm going to repeat myself here, but multiple layers of sound deadener is NOT the smartest or most effective way to fix the issues of a door install. Each additional layer becomes increasingly useless.

Your better off making a fiberglass plug to fit over as much of the door skin as possible, and bolting it down under the door skin. Then use ONE layer of quality deadening on it, and closed cell foam in between the fiberglass and the door skin.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

make sure to seal off the, window, door handle, hinge, drain holes, door stopper, etc. etc. lol lol


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

It's been 21 hours. I assume the door build is done and you're on to pod building?


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)




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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Holy restrictive baffle batman!


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Yeah i posted the pic to see if it was a problem, i figured it would b3... was hoping not to cut my doors :'(.

Say the word Scott, and ill cut em open!


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## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Mr Curtis,

Do you possibly have a qualified 12 volt expert you could assist you in this process? I can see from the photos that you do indeed have a window track. This will have to avoided as not impede the function of your window.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Is the OP related to Kol12?


----------



## sicride (Oct 26, 2014)

sqnut said:


> Is the OP related to Kol12?


Can't be, we're only on page 3 and this guys already done something...:laugh:

Yes, I know there have been other threads... But it's funnier my way.

Bikerbrah, you're doing good, making progress, now keep it up. I don't think Scott needs to say it again. The picture is pretty clear. Cut away, sir. Cut away. 

And listen to the other folks that are telling you to seal those MDF rings so all your hard work doesn't break down due to the elements. It also helps to be sure all areas between each ring and between the rings and door panels are sealed properly.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Scott Buwalda said:


> It's been 21 hours. I assume the door build is done and you're on to pod building?


Yes, but it is winter here, and i dont have a heated garage, so i have to drive to another city and use my little bro's when he's home, so progress is more delayed than i like.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

sicride said:


> sqnut said:
> 
> 
> > Is the OP related to Kol12?
> ...


Lmao you guys are funny .

I will DEFINITELY be using resin on these pods, even though my buddy can CNC them in 5 minutes at any time 



jtaudioacc said:


> make sure to seal off the, window, door handle, hinge, drain holes, door stopper, etc. etc. lol lol


Drain holes? No. Lol.



BlackHHR said:


> Mr Curtis,
> 
> Do you possibly have a qualified 12 volt expert you could assist you in this process? I can see from the photos that you do indeed have a window track. This will have to avoided as not impede the function of your window.


Not really :/. Learning everything as I go



Scott Buwalda said:


>


The flush layer and champfer layer are both 1" tall, so there's about 2 inches before that constrictive piece, although obviously that's still horrible i'm guessing lol. The Constrictive layer is there to connect the pod to the door using the original 6x9 holes, and the opening is the same as the 6x9 hole, so i'll have to cut the metal of my door and open it up to the 8". It is what it is! I'm dedicated on getting my HAT setup perfected.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Commencing door-cutting research!

My current plan until otherwise advised, is to trace the outline of the inner chamfer edge on the door panel in a position that won't effect window mounting (I sure hope... :O), then cut it out with a jigsaw and metal blade.

Then i'll paint over the exposed metal edge, and fold/sandwhich around the hole with deadener or just cut it right around the hole, and mount the pod on top of that.

Is my logic flawed in any way or missing anything?


----------



## sicride (Oct 26, 2014)

Sounds right, don't f' anything up and make the hole bigger... and paint bare metal. yep you pretty much covered it.


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## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

I'd use a Dremel with some cut-off wheels; but I'm a Jedi master with the Dremel.

Before you begin, how much of the factory grill is actually open?

Since you will have to cut metal anyways, is it possible that you could relocate the mid further forward (and down if necessary) to miss the window track, and allow for you to sink the speaker further into the door and not resort to manipulating the door panel?


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

danssoslow said:


> I'd use a Dremel with some cut-off wheels; but I'm a Jedi master with the Dremel.
> 
> Before you begin, how much of the factory grill is actually open?
> 
> Since you will have to cut metal anyways, is it possible that you could relocate the mid further forward (and down if necessary) to miss the window track, and allow for you to sink the speaker further into the door and not resort to manipulating the door panel?


Welcome my fellow 300 brohem! Well, currently, the pod is literally damn near touching my dash... i'll take a pic soon. 

I'm going to come up with a way to mount the pod without having to use the 3rd inner baffle piece to attach the pod to the door around the current 6x9 hole, which also takes up 3/4". The pod is also made from 2 layers of 1" MDF, so maybe I can make it from two normal 3/4" MDF and save .5" or more. 

This is so frustrating, because i'm trying to picture it all in my head without having to run out in the cold, in my apt parking lot, and look at my door lmao.


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

My current plan:

- Cut the 6x9 hole to the size of the champfer's.
- Finish deadening the door and around the new hole.
- Resin the pod and install when dry
- Mount the door panel, marker the pieces obstructing L8, remove panel/cut away pieces, re-install panel
- Use original grill-cover to make a fiberglass mold of it, then cut away the diameter needed to install Hybrid Audio grill. Might even use original cover if adventageous.
- If possible, somehow install fast ring behind grill, so that it seals around the L8 when the new grill cover is mounted after door panel.

Thoughts? Much appreciated guys


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

Here's the thing though, even though it is heading closer to the dash, beyond the window track you may be able to sink the entire speaker into the door. That might be exagerating, knowing the window itself would be the next obstruction; but you may be able to limit it to 3/4-1".


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## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Bikerbrah said:


> Commencing door-cutting research!
> 
> My current plan until otherwise advised, is to trace the outline of the inner chamfer edge on the door panel in a position that won't effect window mounting (I sure hope... :O), then cut it out with a jigsaw and metal blade.
> 
> ...


Meh, I would just forget the doors all together and go to the kick panels. 

OMG !!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm not going let one person ruin. I have way too much fun talking to everyone.
My friends on here are worth more than the 1 person that just purposely trys to get under my skin. 

There's a few others but they don't antagonise me like that one person. Beside I just figured out how to block him anyway so I'm over it. I shouldn't let that behavior get the best of me. I learn new stuff every day about something ~ :/

Anyway. 

Best of luck bikerbra that's a great set of drivers, I don't own a HAT set yet but it's on the wish list.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

BlackHHR said:


> Meh, I would just forget the doors all together and go to the kick panels.
> 
> OMG !!


I can't tell if you're saying that due to the amount of work, or are somehow insulting me ..


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

I have to go to work but does anyone know if the metal panel is actually removable on Chrysler cars or not? Would be MUCH easier to cut! Thanks everyone!


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

You can scribe and cut of that metal, paint it and wrap deadened around it so someon doesn't slap their arms apart in about 5 minutes each side. Maybe 15 for someone with no experience that's somewhat intimidated with hand tools. I mean we're talking about cutting 5 inches of sheet metal. 

You are making this way more complicated than it is, and overthinking it to the point that you're so overwhelmed by it that you're going to give yourself a panic attack. It's not rocket science, just take your time.

Sheet metal is sheet metal, doesn't matter what country it comes from let alone what car manufacturer uses.

When/If you cut, just make sure that you get all the debris out from that bottom of the door, or it WILL rust and eventually eat through the bottom of the door. 30 seconds with a simple shop vac will take care of that.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

mmiller said:


> You can scribe and cut of that metal, paint it and wrap deadened around it so someon doesn't slap their arms apart in about 5 minutes each side. Maybe 15 for someone with no experience that's somewhat intimidated with hand tools. I mean we're talking about cutting 5 inches of sheet metal.
> 
> You are making this way more complicated than it is, and overthinking it to the point that you're so overwhelmed by it that you're going to give yourself a panic attack. It's not rocket science, just take your time.
> 
> ...



My last job was framing multi-million dollar homes lol... not afraid of hand tools in the slightest. It would just make it easy and clean. But you're right. Cutting metal isn't rocket science. Doesn't mean i should just start chopping.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Bikerbrah said:


> My last job was framing multi-million dollar homes lol... not afraid of hand tools in the slightest. It would just make it easy and clean. But you're right. Cutting metal isn't rocket science. Doesn't mean i should just start chopping.


What you're cutting is absolutely nothing, in terms or ridity structure, ect. Maybe you should just put the 6X9's in and sell the L8's. Unless you're going to take it to someone to do it for you. I don't know how anyone on here could be more clear, or helpful. At this point unless you proceed, I doubt many more people are going to respond, if anyone does at all. 

At this point you've had atleast 6-7 people try to guide you through this... Including the owner of H.A.T himself... I've seen people cut into brand new $60,000 cars for custom installs... All custom installs require some form of cutting, modifying, ect. You have to decide if you want to do it or you don't. It's as simple as that.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

mmiller said:


> Bikerbrah said:
> 
> 
> > My last job was framing multi-million dollar homes lol... not afraid of hand tools in the slightest. It would just make it easy and clean. But you're right. Cutting metal isn't rocket science. Doesn't mean i should just start chopping.
> ...


People like you ruin this site. You take away the fun of learning, socializing, and curb the "family" bond from being developed between us as we communicate. Do you even realize, that we're talking about cutting my f*ing doors? Something I, and most people have never done, and can have expensive reprocussions if done wrong. Obviously, it's just cutting metal. Easy. But f*ing excuse me for wanting to double check first before cutting. People like you make this site suck man. Straight up ruin the fun in socializing and learning. Don't just come in with your ego and start down-talking me just because YOU've done it.

I am FULLY commited to getting these 8's in my door and experiencing the quality of Hybrid Audio, regardless of what it takes. Cutting the hole bigger doesn't scare me in the slightest. I wanted to be prepared and do it right. So don't come in here, and make new readers think I'm some ignorant little punk ignoring everyone's advice like i'm Hellen Keller, sitting here blind and deaf with a jigsaw in my hands terrified of beginning. My doors would already be cut if I wasn't working and winter outside with no heated garage. Sunday/Monday are my days off, so i'll be doing it first chance. So again, excuse me for wanting to plan things out and see if there was anything else I should know before taking a jigsaw to my new car's doors.


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Everybody here has there own way of doing things and their own idea of what works and what doesn't. Not to mention every car brings it's own set of challenges, which is why you never get a straight and easy answer.

Cutting a door isn't difficult. I have cut much larger holes to install sealed pods. But there are a few suggestions and guidelines based on my own experiences. Mark out your area, double and even triple check your alignment and measurements. You can use a roto zip or a dremel. But I highly suggest that you don't. The best option is a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade. You have to be careful with the jigsaw though, because it has the tendency to grab and deform the metal in the area you are cutting. Additionally, because you need pressure to keep the saw from bouncing off the the metal instead of cutting it, you can accidentally bend the panel. Both situations are exasperated as the blade dulls and as you cut away more material. But you are not cutting that much away based on the pictures.

There is a good reason to not use abrasive rotary cutters. All cutting methods will create shavings. The jigsaw will create larger shavings, which can be easier to clean up. Rotary cutters, however, will create a fine dust which can be very difficult to clean up. The dust and shavings will settle in the door and will rust and potentially initiate oxidation of the door itself. But what is more sinister with the dust (if using a rotary tool) will settle everywhere. The dust will be magnetized (as will the metal shavings), and it can cause you significant problems if it is not thoroughly cleaned up. Case story: I had just finished cutting my doors and got my pods installed. I had vacuumed and cleaned everything up (so I thought). I was anxious to get a listen. I set a pair of neo tweeters on my floor board to wire them up. I stuck them up on the pillars with some two sided tape to give a listen. Something sounded terribly off with the highs. I pulled one tweeter off to inspect it, and that was when I noticed the entire silk dome of the tweeter had hairs growing out of it. Those hairs were made from fine metal dust that was hidden in the carpet. The tweeters pulled the dust out of the carpet when I set them on the floorboards. There was no practical way to get the dust off, and so the tweeters were ruined. So, I don't cut metal with anything other than a jigsaw where the shavings are larger, more visible, and easier to clean up.

Hope that helps.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I always take a magnet with tape on it to clean up the metal shavings. The metal sticks and you take the tape off to clean it all up.

Nothing is worse than getting metal shavings in a gap of a speaker to ruin your day...and depending on what speaker, ruin the speaker too.

Been there done that, and it sucks.


----------



## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> I always take a magnet with tape on it to clean up the metal shavings. The metal sticks and you take the tape off to clean it all up.
> 
> Nothing is worse than getting metal shavings in a gap of a speaker to ruin your day...and depending on what speaker, ruin the speaker too.
> 
> Been there done that, and it sucks.


Yep, definitely an oh f♤ck moment. I used an old driver with an unshielded neo magnet which I protected with sara wrap. I just waved the thing over the carpet and every other surface. That metal dust was all over everything. Never again. In a tight spot, I'll opt for a hand held hacksaw blade before I ever reach for my dremel cut off wheel.


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## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Bikerbrah said:


> I can't tell if you're saying that due to the amount of work, or are somehow insulting me ..


Insulting ? Not at all. Having fun with you, yes. Trying to lighten up the air just a bit.


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: Proper door enclosure for a 8&quot; HAT Legatia*








Dont worry about cutting a small section in your car door panel.

How do i know? I just cut 14" x 8" in the kick panel. 

Cut and move on with this **** already!


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

I will be cutting my doors tonight or tomorrow afternoon!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> I always take a magnet with tape on it to clean up the metal shavings. The metal sticks and you take the tape off to clean it all up.
> 
> Nothing is worse than getting metal shavings in a gap of a speaker to ruin your day...and depending on what speaker, ruin the speaker too.
> 
> Been there done that, and it sucks.


Or have modeling clay drip down right into the gap on a hot day 

:bang head:


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> I always take a magnet with tape on it to clean up the metal shavings. The metal sticks and you take the tape off to clean it all up.
> 
> Nothing is worse than getting metal shavings in a gap of a speaker to ruin your day...and depending on what speaker, ruin the speaker too.
> 
> Been there done that, and it sucks.





oabeieo said:


> Or have modeling clay drip down right into the gap on a hot day
> 
> :bang head:


That is just horribly unlucky lol


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Alright gentleman! Today is my day off, and it is BEAUTIFUL OUTSIDE!!! I will DEFINATELY be making some good progress today.

Will update soon!


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Forgot to mention, I good ol' pair of tin snips can work well too, and you don't have to worry as much about the mess. They might bend the lip I bit around the area you are cutting, but in most cases it won't matter.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Bikerbrah said:


> People like you ruin this site. You take away the fun of learning, socializing, and curb the "family" bond from being developed between us as we communicate. Do you even realize, that we're talking about cutting my f*ing doors? Something I, and most people have never done, and can have expensive reprocussions if done wrong. Obviously, it's just cutting metal. Easy. But f*ing excuse me for wanting to double check first before cutting. People like you make this site suck man. Straight up ruin the fun in socializing and learning. Don't just come in with your ego and start down-talking me just because YOU've done it.
> 
> I am FULLY commited to getting these 8's in my door and experiencing the quality of Hybrid Audio, regardless of what it takes. Cutting the hole bigger doesn't scare me in the slightest. I wanted to be prepared and do it right. So don't come in here, and make new readers think I'm some ignorant little punk ignoring everyone's advice like i'm Hellen Keller, sitting here blind and deaf with a jigsaw in my hands terrified of beginning. My doors would already be cut if I wasn't working and winter outside with no heated garage. Sunday/Monday are my days off, so i'll be doing it first chance. So again, excuse me for wanting to plan things out and see if there was anything else I should know before taking a jigsaw to my new car's doors.


I'm really done with this thread, but Are you for real?? 

You've been on this forum for two months, you have no clue what my contributions on here have been... Or anyone's for that matter. I've replied several times in this thread to help assist you, as many others have not only on here but FB and God only knows where else. There's nothing wrong with asking questions...

I only noted that after asking the 10,000th question that ten people have already answered, if you don't get it, too take ihe car to someone that does. Which if you scroll through this thread that has been hinted in a less subtle way from others.

I'm sorry that I told you to either ****, or get off the Pot, but heh you're working on them today aren't you? Maybe I helped motivated you.

Sorry that I've ruined your forum experience, but Don't question my Character on this forum or anywhere for that matter, I called a spade a spade, sorry that offended you. I'm not entertaining this thread anymore, so if you have anything in response to this matter, PM me and we can discuss any grienvences you may have.

Good Luck with your build!


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

*Re: Proper door enclosure for a 8&quot; HAT Legatia*

Update!

Got the holes cut! Tomorrow me and my buddy are going to design up a new baffle/trim ring pod and print it out. (he has a CNC at his job. Extreeeemely nice to have.

The window track looks obstructive in the pic, but i cut the hole a little bigger and the speaker will be tilted, so shouldn't be visible/in the way when done.







)


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Another 55 degree day today! Summer is coming! 

So I'm going to finish this door, get the ring mounted, and finish deadening the two layers inside and out, followed by the other door when I'm confident I've perfected the first door and have it good. 

Then on to my infinite baffle! 

Then


----------



## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

:bigthumb:


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

If I were you, go to HomeDepot and get a tube of uretane and put that between the metal and the car door. Seal the outer and inner parts of the ring. Buy throw away gloves too.

layer of Sound dampending
layer of Sound dampending
Urethan and secure it with good quality bolts
Let it dry -24/48 hrs
layer of Sound dampending
install L8

enjoy


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

AVIDEDTR said:


> If I were you, go to HomeDepot and get a tube of uretane and put that between the metal and the car door. Seal the outer and inner parts of the ring. Buy throw away gloves too.
> 
> layer of Sound dampending
> layer of Sound dampending
> ...


Ohhhh you're saying use the urethane between the dampener and rings when i install them to make a seal? I'll definately be sealing them - what benefit does urethane have over say double sided tape?


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

In past experiences tape is a good, but i want the best performance.

This seales the out and inner 100%.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Awesome thanks, any pictures of your door with it?


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

nope - I don't photograph that level of detail.


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I'm going to repeat myself here, but multiple layers of sound deadener is NOT the smartest or most effective way to fix the issues of a door install. Each additional layer becomes increasingly useless.
> 
> Your better off making a fiberglass plug to fit over as much of the door skin as possible, and bolting it down under the door skin. Then use ONE layer of quality deadening on it, and closed cell foam in between the fiberglass and the door skin.


Bingo.


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Bikerbrah said:


> I can't tell if you're saying that due to the amount of work, or are somehow insulting me ..


When you think of how much work is involved with door rebuilds and making fiberglass cover pieces for the holes, and deadening, etc etc it really makes sense to just go with kicks if it's an available and suitable option. The performance is a vast (VAST) improvement.

For the record, I have used Hybrid Audio speakers in my vehicle for quite a number of years, including the L8v2's in competition last season (located in the kicks of my Mazda). They produce plentyyyyy of midbass output. It's a terrific driver for sure.
You can get great performance in doors with these too, the only challenge is the same one you get with all door installs- trying to tame resonances.

I've done 2 door rebuilds to fit 8" midbasses and in this car I said not again. It was a great decision as the increase in performance, and lack of resonance just makes the system sound so much better.


Best of luck to you! You have excellent speakers there, and they will sound great once the install is nailed down and you get the system tuned up properly.

cheers,

Steve


----------



## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

captainobvious said:


> When you think of how much work is involved with door rebuilds and making fiberglass cover pieces for the holes, and deadening, etc etc it really makes sense to just go with kicks if it's an available and suitable option. The performance is a vast (VAST) improvement.
> 
> For the record, I have used Hybrid Audio speakers in my vehicle for quite a number of years, including the L8v2's in competition last season (located in the kicks of my Mazda). They produce plentyyyyy of midbass output. It's a terrific driver for sure.
> You can get great performance in doors with these too, the only challenge is the same one you get with all door installs- trying to tame resonances.
> ...


I would do this but most of us dont have room for kicks :/

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I'm going to repeat myself here, but multiple layers of sound deadener is NOT the smartest or most effective way to fix the issues of a door install. Each additional layer becomes increasingly useless.
> 
> Your better off making a fiberglass plug to fit over as much of the door skin as possible, and bolting it down under the door skin. Then use ONE layer of quality deadening on it, and closed cell foam in between the fiberglass and the door skin.


Have you determined how useless each additional layer deadener beyond the first one is? I've had the L8V2's in the doors of my Infiniti and it wasn't until I did two full layers and 3 in some spots that the doors were solid enough to take the full on abuse of those drivers. I also installed some metal bracing throughout. The doors were noticeably heavier with all the deadener but it worked.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

gregerst22 said:


> Have you determined how useless each additional layer deadener beyond the first one is? I've had the L8V2's in the doors of my Infiniti and it wasn't until I did two full layers and 3 in some spots that the doors were solid enough to take the full on abuse of those drivers. I also installed some metal bracing throughout. The doors were noticeably heavier with all the deadener but it worked.


BRO! You live in Minneapolis!! Let's meet up today!!


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Update:

Added a piece to fill in the gap cause by the panel extruding, and cut a new baffle/ring!
Today I plan on adding resin to the rings, and adding fiberglass to shape/fill in the gaps between the door metal and baffle pieces instead of cramming deadener in the gap.


How's it looking gentleman?  

I apologize for the first two pics being sideways, not sure why.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

That looks so much better!


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

gregerst22 said:


> Have you determined how useless each additional layer deadener beyond the first one is? I've had the L8V2's in the doors of my Infiniti and it wasn't until I did two full layers and 3 in some spots that the doors were solid enough to take the full on abuse of those drivers. I also installed some metal bracing throughout. The doors were noticeably heavier with all the deadener but it worked.


This. Metal bracing metal, sounds crazy but it works, and is not beyond your DIY skill level. Anyone that's been on this forum a while is probably tired of hearing me say it, SkizeR is a believer. Scott makes a great speaker and properly mounted his L8 sound awesome, and this is your root issue...bracing against resonance! :dead_horse:


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Update:

Installed Rivnuts, and 2 layers of 22 gauge metal with deadener in between each layer to cover the access hole . I'll add the reat of the pics later.

Unfortunately, i made an IDIOT mistake. i lost almost 2 hours fixing the two F****ING WIRES i somehow caught with the drill bit.... not fun. Fixed it though


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

with the covers on


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## Horuspeed (Dec 2, 2010)

This is way better, could you build your spacers with King Starboard HDPE instead of MDF? it would be perfect imo . (If only the shipping cost wasn't so high for me...)


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Horuspeed said:


> This is way better, could you build your spacers with King Starboard HDPE instead of MDF? it would be perfect imo . (If only the shipping cost wasn't so high for me...)



I could possibly! Ill look into it! Otherwise I was going to just resin them real good.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

good job


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## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

Now that looks great! Good on you man!

I feel you on the wires. I got caught up in some insulation this morning with a hole hawg. Cotton candy spinning wheel of death!


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Bikerbrah said:


> BRO! You live in Minneapolis!! Let's meet up today!!



Sorry, i haven't been active on this site recently because I've been working extra hours almost every night and weekend for the past 2 months. I'll be working this upcoming weekend as well but I should have some time maybe on Sunday if you want to meet up and I can give you a demo of my system with the pair of SBP15's.

By the way it looks like your doors are coming along nicely.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

danssoslow said:


> Now that looks great! Good on you man!
> 
> I feel you on the wires. I got caught up in some insulation this morning with a hole hawg. Cotton candy spinning wheel of death!


Hahahaha oh man. I can just imagine.




gregerst22 said:


> Sorry, i haven't been active on this site recently because I've been working extra hours almost every night and weekend for the past 2 months. I'll be working this upcoming weekend as well but I should have some time maybe on Sunday if you want to meet up and I can give you a demo of my system with the pair of SBP15's.
> 
> By the way it looks like your doors are coming along nicely.


That would be AWESOME! Check your inbox


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Update!

L8 is temporarily in as I couldn't wait any longer. Probably only giving it 60 watts give or take. My first reaction?

"Sh**. Forgot to turn the sub down. *Reaches to turn down sub gain.....Only to find it's already off!!!

Giggled and smiled to myself, then proceeded to test probably 50 songs lmao. Sounds SOOOO GOOODDDDD. Fills a HUGE void that my music that I was missing, and here I thought my Boston 6x9's sounded good.. The midbass gained from opening the 6x9 hole + sealing the door with 2 layers of 22 gauge steel (rivnuts) + deadening the inside of the door = Amazing. I'm incredibly excited about listening to music again. I've yet to tune it more in depth and I have one or two resonances to tame, so i'll go through the frequencies and see what i can do!

By the way this was only one side/speaker/L8 lol. Going to start on the other door tomorrow. I CANNOT WAIT to hear what both of them will be like!

Anyone have any amazing song recommendations? Nothing boring!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

No song recommendations, but can't wait to get my L8SEs in.


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Bikerbrah said:


> Update!
> 
> L8 is temporarily in as I couldn't wait any longer. Probably only giving it 60 watts give or take. My first reaction?
> 
> ...


Well done, glad to hear you are making progress. Getting very good midbass is usually difficult, but I feel there is no greater feeling when you do!
Keep it up and good luck.


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Now comes the driver's door. I cant wait!


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Drivers door is in!!! Time to finish deadening and get the panels back on, then move on to my pillars . Thanks everyone!!

THEY SOUND AMAZING! Haven't even really begun to tune yet and it already makes me giggle. Cannot wait to get it set up proper!

Edit: Grrr. 2nd pic is upside down....


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## Bikerbrah (Dec 3, 2015)

Part 2:


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