# Should I buy an AGM battery now?



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I was contemplating for a good couple weeks back in the summer on picking up an AGM battery for my DD. Not because I wanted to be able to crank my tunes for hours with the car off (it would be nice though), but because I wanted a battery that could handle discharge cycles (partial, not complete) better than a regular lead acid battery. 

Well I didn't get up getting a AGM because I figured I was just going to make use of the Costco 6 year warranty and replace my Costco battery yearly regardless of it being dead or not. Though I will admit, it would be a PITA replacing batteries yearly at Costco. My current battery is coming up to 9 months old. 

My previous battery lasted me 10 months. This was from draining the battery from 100% down to 30% multiple times in a row, even though literally 95% of the time I drove the car it was highway and no short trips. So even with me still making sure I fully charged the battery each time, it still died on me in 10 months. Because I know that short trips on a deep cycled battery will significantly kill the battery much much quicker. 

NOW, my situation is different. I have a 2nd car and my main car is still my DD but it's not driven everyday of the week. Sometimes it will go a couple days without being driven (a good 36-48 hours). It won't go anymore than 2 or 3 days though without being driven. But in the winter, it most likely will be driven everyday of the week (all depending on how much snow we have).

Now the reason why I'm even considering putting in an AGM battery again is mainly because my 2 way remote starter (Compustar) is a major parasite draw due to the remote and there is nothing I can do about it other than go back to a 1 way (which Im not willing to do).

I did a voltage test on my car and my battery will go from 12.4V (fully charged) to 12.2V in just 8-9 hours. That is a 30% drop in power. This happens literally every night or after each night I drive the car, so quite often. Remember a 30% cycle in a battery is still pretty significant and I am doing this at least 20 times a month. 

Over a full 24 hours and that battery drops to 12V. That is essentially 30% battery power. This is not good. I know it drops too because even with warm fall weather, I go to crank the car after it's been sitting for just a day and it's a bit slower to crank. So at this going rate, my battery will be completely dead in 4 (maybe 3) days. 

I know there is a way to program my remote starter so that it disables and shuts off after a period of time. You can set it to 24 hours, 48 hours etc, so that if the car has sat for that period of time, the system cuts off power and no more parasite draw. The only thing is, say I set it to cut off at 24 hours. 1) Yes I won't have to worry about dead batteries in the winter, but a discharge down to 30% in 24 hours is still a deep discharge. And 2), you will need to use your keys to unlock the car door to re activate the starter again. Which IMO would be a PITA. What if my car has sat for 2 days in the winter and I want to start it. I gotta go outside in -30 weather just to open the door, then remote start? Talk about a major PITA and I gaurentee this would happen often. So I have completely taken this option out. I'm not even considering it anymore.

So that means that each time that I let the car sit for a day and regardless of me taking it on the highway and letting the battery get back up to 100%. I am deep cycling the battery and I am going to have to go through frequent battery replacements because like I said, lead acid batteries will have an extremely short life span if you deep cycle them. Draining my lead acid to 70% is not a deep cycle but it's definitely deeper of a cycle than normal. And draining to 30% is most definitely a very deep cycle. So if I do that to me battery 2-3 times a week, that is 8-12 times a month. You can imagine how long this battery will last.

So my question now is, do you think it would now be worthwhile for me to buy an AGM battery? They are $220 for a Deka Instigator and $325 for a high end top of the line Northstar (rebranded Odysssey). If I was to get an AGM, I would get the DEKA mainly because it's 50% cheaper and I just can't justify spending $300+ on a battery.

The biggest con if I was to get an AGM is that the two places locally who sells these batteries are not open weekends (it would suck if my battery died on a weekend and I couldn't replace it until Monday), and one of the stores is pretty far so it would suck having to drive all the way down there just to replace a battery.

Even though Costco has long lineups, I have two close to home and they're open 7 days a week. But again, for peace of mind, if I stuck with the Costco batteries I will replace them once a year.

Obviously like stated, my main reason would be for my remote starter, and not my car audio. BUT knowing that I have the extra power on hand (if I ever need it) is nice to know. Though I never get any lights flickering or anything right now on my stock setup running a 5ch @ 1000W RMS (4 speakers and 1 sub)

What would you guys do?


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

One of these would work.

MotoMaster Eliminator Ultra AGM Automotive Ba | Canadian Tire


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

CrossFired said:


> One of these would work.
> 
> MotoMaster Eliminator Ultra AGM Automotive Ba | Canadian Tire


Thanks so you think its worth it for me? Ive heard bad things about Eliminator batteries plus its at CRAPPY tire where ill never buy any auto stuff from.

Buy if those batteries are as good as the Deka Instigator ill get one but from Part Source


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I have been trying to find information about, batteries and why these days they only last about 3-4 years.

Your case is unique, and unless you can garage your car, and take other steps I will suggest later.
An AGM battery will help and last longer for sure.

This is just my take, I may be wrong, but not 100% wrong regarding batteries not lasting longer these days. 

Apparently, most post 2006 cars, have charging systems monitored by their computers, and may charge the battery 100% of the time you drive it, only when it demands more current. Even smart chargers sometimes do not fully charge a battery, since some keep a floating voltage just above 12.5 volts.

Of course our amplifiers are connected directly to the battery, and the computers never know of the high current demands, keeping the charge at 12.5 plus volts, In the long run the battery may be suffering more than benefiting from the car charging system.

I have read that a 20 min drive is enough to charge the battery, this really depends.
Maybe older cars, yes, not with newer cars.
Every newer car is different, and they change some things every year, although most if not all use the new charging system, I believe that the government puts pressure on on manufacturers to reduce energy or gasoline consumption. Then I wondered, Who cares about getting 1/16Th of a mile extra per gallon when the alternator is not working right? 

When you multiply that by every single car in the US and some in other countries, it can add to a significant number of gallons of gas, and I think that is what manufacturers face, and maybe one of the reasons oil is $50 and not $120 a barrel. Our savings is insignificant but their numbers and ratings go up and if they don't meet certain regulations, they may have to pay some penalties and extra fees to do business, (just a guess or maybe just a variation of this theory)


I had batteries lasting 8-9 years with older cars, driven every day for at least 10 miles or more, with new ones not the case. In some extreme climates, it would not be the case even with older cars.

Having a voltage displayed, I noticed that while driving I only saw about 5% of the time 14 plus volts plus displayed, if you have the air blower off, it is worse. Freeway driving, above 60mph the voltage remains at 14 volts and a long commute or 20 plus minutes at 14 volts it will charge the battery better and prolong it's life. Less than that speed, 12.5-12.6 volts would display, most likely not enough time to get a good charge. 


Best solution, park inside, no alarm no led alarm blinking, only computer and clock power consumption, in your case maybe connect a smart charger as soon as you get home and leave it over night. If you want to continue with a standard battery or cheap AGM.


Another solution I can came up with, is driving with the lights on. This will keep the voltage at 14 volts all the time, being city or highway, even during short trips, you should get more life out of any battery.


If you do not want to remember to turn the lights on every time after you take off driving simply get a Northstar battery, and I would still turn the lights on at least 50% of driving time. Those batteries recover to hold a voltage above 12.5V even under extreme current loads, they use virgin lead and they are the ones used by the military in their jeeps and combat vehicles.

It will cost $300 or more, but there is a good chance it will last over 3 years in your situation.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Look into brands made by more higher quality names. I don't have the names on me because battery shopping isn't something I do alot. Meaning don't just go for the real expensive brands. Sears AGM batteries tend to have better pricing than its competitors. By online and pickup in store gives better pricing options also. Todays timeframe quality control is 50/50 it seems. I'm technically in the same boat. Tracked down a charging issue and thought it was everything else because the battery is only 10 months old. 10 years ago or so the Optima Yellow Top before they had quality issues was the best damn battery I ever had any experience with. I was rocking a 200 amp alternator on it but voltage stayed at 14.2 to 14.4 with whatever I threw at it. I'm hoping to find that same quality here soon. 99% chance I will go with a DieHard AGM from Sears. I don't have experience with these $200-$300 batteries some guys are running. In todays times you can find someone who had an issue with any type of battery so I still think its hit or miss sometimes.


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## sensarmy (May 25, 2014)

Mayosandwich said:


> Thanks so you think its worth it for me? Ive heard bad things about Eliminator batteries plus its at CRAPPY tire where ill never buy any auto stuff from.
> 
> Buy if those batteries are as good as the Deka Instigator ill get one but from Part Source


Their new AGM batteries are rebranded Dekas, the old ones withthe blue top or rebranded Exides. Both are decent options for the money considering you get a 5 year warranty on them.

They also sell rebranded Northstar AGMs btw, but the sizes they sell are pretty limited.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> An AGM battery will help and last longer for sure.


A big debate is how much longer.



> Apparently, most post 2006 cars, have charging systems monitored by their computers, and may charge the battery 100% of the time you drive it, only when it demands more current. Even smart chargers sometimes do not fully charge a battery, since some keep a floating voltage just above 12.5 volts.
> 
> Of course our amplifiers are connected directly to the battery, and the computers never know of the high current demands, keeping the charge at 12.5 plus volts, In the long run the battery may be suffering more than benefiting from the car charging system.
> 
> ...


I don't think a newer car can recharge it's battery (even if only down from 50%) in a 20min drive. Too many electronics. On the highway maybe, and in the winter it would take a long time to recharge.



> Best solution, park inside, no alarm no led alarm blinking, only computer and clock power consumption, in your case maybe connect a smart charger as soon as you get home and leave it over night. If you want to continue with a standard battery or cheap AGM.


Mine is a 2 way remote starter, no alarm, no LED. The 2 way remote is a major parasite draw because the receiver and the remote is always sending back signals 24/7.

I don't have a garage unfortunately.

I did consider a battery charger but I think theyre more trouble than they are worth always having to pop the hood each time to connect the plug to the prongs. no thank you.



=


> Another solution I can came up with, is driving with the lights on. This will keep the voltage at 14 volts all the time, being city or highway, even during short trips, you should get more life out of any battery.


Id probably rather not do this because I would go through HID bulbs that much quicker.



> If you do not want to remember to turn the lights on every time after you take off driving simply get a Northstar battery, and I would still turn the lights on at least 50% of driving time. Those batteries recover to hold a voltage above 12.5V even under extreme current loads, they use virgin lead and they are the ones used by the military in their jeeps and combat vehicles.
> 
> It will cost $300 or more, but there is a good chance it will last over 3 years in your situation.


I've heard very good things about the Northstar batteries.Only downside is the cost. $325cdn ouch. The store says it comes with a 10 year warranty and they never have any brought back. She said it should last me 10 years (which I highly doubt).


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

sensarmy said:


> *Their new AGM batteries are rebranded Dekas, *the old ones withthe blue top or rebranded Exides. Both are decent options for the money considering you get a 5 year warranty on them.
> 
> They also sell rebranded Northstar AGMs btw, but the sizes they sell are pretty limited.


Oh serious? Didn't know this thanks. How do I tell if I get a new one with a rebranded Deka?

Is there a big difference in quality between Deka and Northstar?

EDIT: Well so much for getting a Moto Eliminator, Part source doesnt sell them, only crappy tire lol. I wouldnt buy a battery from Crappy tire even if it was $50.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Swaglife81 said:


> Look into brands made by more higher quality names. I don't have the names on me because battery shopping isn't something I do alot. Meaning don't just go for the real expensive brands. Sears AGM batteries tend to have better pricing than its competitors. By online and pickup in store gives better pricing options also. Todays timeframe quality control is 50/50 it seems. I'm technically in the same boat. Tracked down a charging issue and thought it was everything else because the battery is only 10 months old. 10 years ago or so the Optima Yellow Top before they had quality issues was the best damn battery I ever had any experience with. I was rocking a 200 amp alternator on it but voltage stayed at 14.2 to 14.4 with whatever I threw at it. I'm hoping to find that same quality here soon. 99% chance I will go with a DieHard AGM from Sears. I don't have experience with these $200-$300 batteries some guys are running. In todays times you can find someone who had an issue with any type of battery so I still think its hit or miss sometimes.


I have no doubt that the Deka Instigator is a quality battery, they are made by Eastpenn. From what I've researched Eastpenn is a good brand and the Napa AGM's are rebranded Eastpenns except Napa here charges $400! Yes $400 for the same battery! What a bunch of scammers.

When I talked ot the shop who sells Northstar, they totally downplayed Eastpenn batteries (figures) and said the Northstar is a rebranded Odysessey and would smoke the Deka and it wouldn't even be comparable. They said that their Nortstar is a much higher quality battery and is often used in competitions. But what really got my attention is when they said that they pretty much have none brought back as the failure rate on them is very low and they last a long long time. She said that they are gaurenteed to last 10 years, that's what it's marketed as, a "10 year battery" lol. I'd like to see a battery last even 7 years let alone 10. If Northstar could gaurentee me that it would last me even 7 years of solid non degraded performance, I would have no problem dropping 3 bills for one today.


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## sensarmy (May 25, 2014)

Mayosandwich said:


> Oh serious? Didn't know this thanks. How do I tell if I get a new one with a rebranded Deka?
> 
> Is there a big difference in quality between Deka and Northstar?
> 
> EDIT: Well so much for getting a Moto Eliminator, Part source doesnt sell them, only crappy tire lol. I wouldnt buy a battery from Crappy tire even if it was $50.


All Motomaster AGMS without a blue top are Deka, the ones with a blue top are Exide.

Yes, North Star batts are much better quality and you should definitely notice a difference (at least i did).

Partsource used to sell Duracell AGMS if you'd rather buy from them, they are also rebranded Dekas.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

sensarmy said:


> All Motomaster AGMS without a blue top are Deka, the ones with a blue top are Exide.
> 
> Yes, North Star batts are much better quality and you should definitely notice a difference (at least i did).
> 
> Partsource used to sell Duracell AGMS if you'd rather buy from them, they are also rebranded Dekas.


Northstar are much better quality than which? Dekas or Motomaster?

I'm not sold on Motomaster Eliminators (even at $159), I have a feeling that they won't be any better than my Kirkland Costco battery (that has 600CAA) and has a 5 year warranty.

So if the Eliminators are rebranded Dekas, then it sounds to me like the Deka Instigators aren't anything special.

How did you notice the benefits in your northstar over the motomaster? You can actually tell? Are they worth the $300? Jesus, what is this world coming to $300 for a car battery lol.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Another similar battery to a north star would be the XS, no clue who makes them.

Tough situation, if available solutions are not options and the only potential solution is to get an AGM battery and get an extra 14 months extra out of it, although the NS and the XS will probably last over 3 years.

Not driving long distance , or at least have a good smart charger to use at least 2-3 times a week for a few hours, makes it hard but it will also help. Some of the good ones have quick disconnect connectors to avoid the clamp type connectors.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> Another similar battery to a north star would be the XS, no clue who makes them.
> 
> Tough situation, if available solutions are not options and the only potential solution is to get an AGM battery and get an extra 14 months extra out of it, although the NS and the XS will probably last over 3 years.
> 
> Not driving long distance , or at least have a good smart charger to use at least 2-3 times a week for a few hours, makes it hard but it will also help. Some of the good ones have quick disconnect connectors to avoid the clamp type connectors.


The XS batteries are nice, they run about the same price as the Nortstar once you factor in shipping.

I was considering pick up a smart charger, how do these work? Do I still need to lift the hood of the car to clamp the charger onto the battery?

It would be nice if there was a battery charger that you would get by just plugging your car right into it (like a block heater) and not have to lift your hood every time just to plug it, then again to unplug.

The good news is that because my 2nd car is a beater, it will be used for ALL short trips from home in the winter. Because obviously I couldnt care less about it lol. So if I need to run to the store 2km from home in -30 weather, the beater gets used.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

You would need a water proof small charger you can strap under the hood, still a wire will be sticking out, if you don't want to open the hood they do have a plastic cover 

The only water proof one I've seen before is the black and decker one. 
Not sure it is recommended to keep it inside.

The 2 popular smart charger brands, not water proof are battery tenders and cctek, Costco sells a 3 amp one for $40 sometimes on sale for $30, good deal considering 2 amp ones go for. $40 to $50.
Ctek's are probably the better ones and a bit more expensive.

I was watching a video on you tube the other night, some guys from Australia selling some CTEK charger/device you keep in the car to be used with 2 batteries, it look very interesting, here is one of many, and yes all from Australia, no clue if that system is legal or available here in the US, you would need to search and find out if you can get it in Canada 

You may want to consider a second battery option, if your remote starter can operate or use part of the second battery power.


https://youtu.be/0AGafmkFjN4


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> You would need a water proof small charger you can strap under the hood, still a wire will be sticking out, if you don't want to open the hood they do have a plastic cover
> 
> The only water proof one I've seen before is the black and decker one.
> Not sure it is recommended to keep it inside.
> ...


Thanks. Im in Canada and Costco here doesn't sell Cctek.

Have you heard of Noco? Any good?

I would be willing to get a smart charger, hopefully you can still close the hood when the clamps are on the battery.



> I was watching a video on you tube the other night, some guys from Australia selling some CTEK charger/device you keep in the car to be used with 2 batteries, it look very interesting, here is one of many, and yes all from Australia, no clue if that system is legal or available here in the US, you would need to search and find out if you can get it in Canada
> 
> You may want to consider a second battery option, if your remote starter can operate or use part of the second battery power.
> 
> url]https://youtu.be/0AGafmkFjN4[/url]


I did consider a second battery but it wasn't worth it. Then I would have to get a distributor or what ever its called where you have the car (when off) run off the 2nd battery first. For what it would cost, I would rather just get an AGM and be done with it.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

The one from Costco comes with it already, and it's a 3 amp charger, the other chargers from B tender may no come with the quick disconnect or it has to be purchased separately.


Basically it is 2 options, the clamp harness connects to the wire extension charger, then disconnect it and you permanently leave this fused harness connected to your battery and simply connect and disconnect it, when not in used you put the cover on the connector


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> The one from Costco comes with it already, and it's a 3 amp charger, the other chargers from B tender may no come with the quick disconnect or it has to be purchased separately.
> 
> 
> Basically it is 2 options, the clamp harness connects to the wire extension charger, then disconnect it and you permanently leave this fused harness connected to your battery and simply connect and disconnect it, when not in used you put the cover on the connector


Thanks, it;s too bad Costco's here don't sell any chargers.

It looks like I have to settle buying from Crappy tire of Napa.

How does this one look? Its regular $65 but on sale this week for $52. Is it worth spending more for a better charger?

NOCO Genius G1100 Smart Battery Charger | Canadian Tire

It looks to be the same setup as the one you posted in that video.

Where do those ring terminals attach to if this has to be plugged into a wall?

If I know that this NOCO GENIUS unit can be mounted under my somewhere than I will get one today and have my mech install it on Friday when I see him.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

I just found a local shop who sells cctek smart chargers, I will go get one today. They said they start at $60.

Perhaps I don't need an AGM battery anymore? Save myself the money if I could.


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

To the OP....All are good ideas but maybe you have a draw of some kind?
I had an older Corvette with a pretty powerful system and if I didn't drive it for a few days the battery drained down indicating something was slowly sucking the juice away.
I bought a $20 Black and Decker trickle charger which came with the cigarette lighter adapter and that seemed to do the trick but ultimately does not solve the problem. But it worked for me.
You could also try charging your battery to full capacity but keep it disconnected when car is not in use. Do this for a few days and see what happens. 
Did you ever check the voltage going to your battery with the car running? The voltage should be higher than the battery voltage itself like 13.5-14.2 volts.
If your alternator cannot produce more volts than your battery you are shoveling **** against the tide for lack of a better term.
Let us know how you make out


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Mayosandwich said:


> I just found a local shop who sells cctek smart chargers, I will go get one today. They said they start at $60.
> 
> Perhaps I don't need an AGM battery anymore? Save myself the money if I could.


And since you do not want to turn the lights on that much, if you turn the AC, it should keep a 14 plus volts while AC is on. The only issue would be the Alt will not last as long, bearings go out etc, but in some areas like Arizona etc, they pay the price for having over 80 degree temperatures 10 months of the year or so. 

It may be a good idea to also while the engine is on and parked, to check the voltage, sometimes a loose belt or Alt going bad can restrict a good charge.

Good luck, and just be sure, well maybe not, but if you get an AGM battery, make sure the smart charger can charge AGM type batteries some of the small ones, only charge lead acid based batteries.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

dsquared said:


> To the OP....All are good ideas but maybe you have a draw of some kind?
> I had an older Corvette with a pretty powerful system and if I didn't drive it for a few days the battery drained down indicating something was slowly sucking the juice away.
> I bought a $20 Black and Decker trickle charger which came with the cigarette lighter adapter and that seemed to do the trick but ultimately does not solve the problem. But it worked for me.
> You could also try charging your battery to full capacity but keep it disconnected when car is not in use. Do this for a few days and see what happens.
> ...





Alrojoca said:


> And since you do not want to turn the lights on that much, if you turn the AC, it should keep a 14 plus volts while AC is on. The only issue would be the Alt will not last as long, bearings go out etc, but in some areas like Arizona etc, they pay the price for having over 80 degree temperatures 10 months of the year or so.
> 
> It may be a good idea to also while the engine is on and parked, to check the voltage, sometimes a loose belt or Alt going bad can restrict a good charge.
> 
> Good luck, and just be sure, well maybe not, but if you get an AGM battery, make sure the smart charger can charge AGM type batteries some of the small ones, only charge lead acid based batteries.


My friend did a full test a few months ago on my car and said that the 2 way remote starter is the culprit. Other than that I don't have anything else drawing power which is very surprising seeing how I have a 2 channel dashcam, 5 ch amp, LED fogs, HIDs, etc. Even having the flashing LEDs on my dashcams on 24/7 doesn't cause a parasite draw.

With the car on, the voltage reading was 13.6 or 13.8V

I checked my store and they can get me the 0.8V ctek for $75cdn. Wow those are expensive. I need to call ctek tomorrow to make sure that this will not only charge a car battery but AGM. 

UPDATE: Just found fout that the cheapest ctek model that will charge AGM batteries is the CT5 and the store sells that for almost $200! WOW I don't think Im willing to pay $200 for a smart charger, I might as well just get an AGM and that way I have that better ability to discharge less everywhere I go. Because there will be many times where I will be out and I wont be near an AC outlet or be able to plug my car in.

I'm still undecided on whether Im best off getting this smart charger and living with my Costco batteries and replace them once a year or just scrap the charger and get an AGM.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

Mayosandwich said:


> I just found a local shop who sells cctek smart chargers, I will go get one today. They said they start at $60.
> 
> Perhaps I don't need an AGM battery anymore? Save myself the money if I could.


Best charger I've used are these,

12 - 48 Volt Charger Maintainter w/Auto Pulse


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## Manic1! (May 17, 2011)

Canadian tire has a 40 watt solar panel battery charger for $99 (last day of sale). Comes with all the cables and quick disconnects. Coleman 40W Folding Solar Panel | Canadian Tire

They also have smaller ones that fit on your dash.


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## Manic1! (May 17, 2011)

I have used 3 trickle chargers motor master, Norco and Ctek for winter storage of cars and they all worked the same.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks, I ordered a waterproof Deltran (from a friend who recommended the brand to me) off Amazon.ca for $60 shipped and my friend will get a harness made so then he can mount the battery in my car and then all I have to do is plug an ext cord into it when I want to charge, just like as if I was plugging in my block heater. 

After reading this thread HERE, I have excluded Deka AGMs and 95% chance I just stick with my Costco battery. If I do still decide on an AGM, I will pony up the extra $100 for the Northstar as it's considered a premium. But after reading that thread, I even question if an AGM is worth it for me. I might just be better off using the Costco batteries. Afterall, I pretty much have an unlimited warranty. Return the used one, get a new one and you get a fresh new 5 year OTC replacement warranty. Can't beat that.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Mayosandwich said:


> Thanks, I ordered a waterproof Deltran (from a friend who recommended the brand to me) off Amazon.ca for $60 shipped and my friend will get a harness made so then he can mount the battery in my car and then all I have to do is plug an ext cord into it when I want to charge, just like as if I was plugging in my block heater.
> 
> After reading this thread HERE, I have excluded Deka AGMs and 95% chance I just stick with my Costco battery. If I do still decide on an AGM, I will pony up the extra $100 for the Northstar as it's considered a premium. But after reading that thread, I even question if an AGM is worth it for me. I might just be better off using the Costco batteries. Afterall, I pretty much have an unlimited warranty. Return the used one, get a new one and you get a fresh new 5 year OTC replacement warranty. Can't beat that.




Lifetime warranty LOL!  saves money. 
And that thread LOL!  It's for sailing boats, it does not apply since AGM batteries do need to be charged during use sometimes at 14 volts to keep a full charge, those guys were not charging their AGM batteries in their sail boats with the correct charge it's a different animal, therefore they did not get longer life from them, while clearly as someone posted the gel batteries can and should be charged at lower voltage in order to last longer, that applies to sailboats that don't need constant cranking several times a day. I would not believe what they said they are not 100% AGM batteries just because the application is incorrect when it comes to sail boats. This is just on what I read, there, I have no experience with floated batteries, equalizing batteries for sail boat etc. I just think it's the wrong application and it does not apply to cars.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> Lifetime warranty LOL!  saves money.
> And that thread LOL!  It's for sailing boats, it does not apply since AGM batteries do need to be charged during use sometimes at 14 volts to keep a full charge, those guys were not charging their AGM batteries in their sail boats with the correct charge it's a different animal, therefore they did not get longer life from them, while clearly as someone posted the gel batteries can and should be charged at lower voltage in order to last longer, that applies to sailboats that don't need constant cranking several times a day. I would not believe what they said they are not 100% AGM batteries just because the application is incorrect when it comes to sail boats. This is just on what I read, there, I have no experience with floated batteries, equalizing batteries for sail boat etc. I just think it's the wrong application and it does not apply to cars.


Oops I didn't know that lol.

Well now I just question the quality of the Deka's and I even question how many cycles the Northstar can handle.

Because it would suck to pay $325 for that Northstar or $225 for the Deka and have it crap out just after the warranty is over, then I have to buy a new one. Whereas with Costco batteries, I just return it and get a new one. 

Like I said though, if I kept using Costco batteries, I would still replace them once a year for peace of mind. Mine now is only 10 months old and I'm considering running to Costco to put in a fresh one. I paid $90 for the Costco battery and essentially I would get free replacements for as long as I own the car. A lot of money saved.

For example.

Costco batteries - Cost over 6 or 7 years is $90 since all replacements will be free.

If I get a Deka or Northstar. $225 or $325 up front with 3 and 4 year warranties, but let's say either craps out just after that time and I have to buy another, then that makes it $450 and $650. That's the worst case scenario. But I would be pissed if I spent over $300 for a Northstar and it crapped out just over 4 years and then I would have to buy another. THat would make it $80/yr just for an AGM car battery lol. Whereas with Costco, it would cost me $90 over 7 or 8 years if not longer. So you see how AGM could end up raping me in the wallet if I get bad luck?


And if I wanted to switch to AGM, my Costco battery is still under warranty so I can just take it to Costco, get my money back and then put that money towards an AGM.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

That is what I plan to do since I use Costco batteries, except that when I start fresh, I will avoid playing music for more than 30 mins with he engine off, use AC or turn he headlights on for 10-20 mins depending on the travel time per trip when I drive and charge it with my charger if I don't plan to drive for a day or 2 and I get a reading of less than 12.4 volts. And if I plan to tune for a long time, I'll be plugged to may charger, to avoid draining it, after all I have 3 -amplifiers, and with a newer potential sub, 700W instead of 400W as I currently have just for the sub.

The nice thing about AGM batteries is that they hold a 12.75 volts charge when not in used, while lead ones barely hold 12.6V resting voltage when connected to a car. And as we know, manufacturers amp power ratings are measured at 12.7 volts. Now I know why most SQ top podium competitors use an AGM battery besides the benefit of recovering, starting and longer playtime with the engine off.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> That is what I plan to do since I use Costco batteries, except that when I start fresh, I will avoid playing music for more than 30 mins with he engine off, use AC or turn he headlights on for 10-20 mins depending on the travel time per trip when I drive and charge it with my charger if I don't plan to drive for a day or 2 and I get a reading of less than 12.4 volts. And if I plan to tune for a long time, I'll be plugged to may charger, to avoid draining it, after all I have 3 -amplifiers, and with a newer potential sub, 700W instead of 400W as I currently have just for the sub.
> 
> The nice thing about AGM batteries is that they hold a 12.75 volts charge when not in used, while lead ones barely hold 12.6V resting voltage when connected to a car. And as we know, manufacturers amp power ratings are measured at 12.7 volts. Now I know why most SQ top podium competitors use an AGM battery besides the benefit of recovering, starting and longer playtime with the engine off.


Im paranoid, I wanted a fresh battery with the new charger when it gets here so I went to repkace my battery today at Costco.

Went driving for 40mins, 20 of that on the highway. Did a reading after with the car off, 12.8V nice! On my old battery I only got 12.63V with the car off and battery fully charged and that was right from day one. Ill do another reading in the morning.

On the old battery, the 2 way remote will drain the battery from 12.63V to 12.13 in 18hrs. Thats more than 60% drainage from the car sitting just 18hours.

12.4V = approx 70% battery left
12V = approx 25%

I actually think my car (despite being pretty new, 2011) is actually really quick in charging the battery. I remember last winter (it was about -10C), in the morning after the car has been sitting overnight, I drove the car about 5km but let it run for 20mins. I checked my reading before I started the car, 12.2, and after 20mins running it and only 5km, 12.63V. So perhaps my car does charge really fast even when just idling.

If true that would be sweet!


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

You have an issue of not really being able to measure the resting voltage due to the device plugged in your car draining it a bit, but I doubt it can be a big problem unless you don't drive it for 2 or more days on a regular basis. 

Resting voltage is at least 4-6 hours after a drive or a full charge, but having a draw my guess with a new battery, you may get 12.3 to 12.4 volts 

Batteries do charge a bit with a short drive, just not enough. For a new lead acid battery 12.45- 12.5 V after 6 plus hrs is the target and not connected to the car it would probably be close to 12.6 volts.

Then different temperatures will give you a different reading, and when you connect the DMM, sometimes depending on the temperature you may need to hold the reading for up to 30 secs to get a steady higher voltage reading.

It would be interesting to know what you find out, I would try to check it at mid day for better results, colder weather will yield a lower voltage reading. 

When I picked mine, the guy let check the voltage of a few, he said they don't charge them or maintain them there, I picked a 2.5 month old one based on the sticker they put on them, it measured 12.58, while 4 newer ones and a couple with the same date on the sticker, measured between 12.5-12.54 volts. I figured after 2 plus months sitting if it held 12.58V I had a good one. 
Now I get solid a 12.5V resting voltage connected, disconnected and without the alarm led blinking for 6 hrs, fully charged, I suspect a solid 12.6 volts would be the reading.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Another thing that will help is to get a battery as big as you can fit in there, many times, you are limited, some are tall and may touch the hood, or sometimes if they are bigger, they are short and you need a spacer to bring them up to fit properly. Sometimes the terminals are reversed etc, a lot to watch for when putting one, not on the chart they have.

Some guys over here, have even bent the tray holder to fit a bigger battery.

Costco usually has batteries with more cranking amps than factory batteries and that may not be an issue even putting the one they recommend, for west coast weather in the US, not having the highest cranking amps may be OK, for cold temps, like in your area, the bat with the higher cranking amps may be a good option if you don't want to be stranded one day if you don't have a towing or repair service to get a jump to go home.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> Another thing that will help is to get a battery as big as you can fit in there, many times, you are limited, some are tall and may touch the hood, or sometimes if they are bigger, they are short and you need a spacer to bring them up to fit properly. Sometimes the terminals are reversed etc, a lot to watch for when putting one, not on the chart they have.
> 
> Some guys over here, have even bent the tray holder to fit a bigger batttery.
> 
> Costco usually have batteries with more cranking amps than factory batteries and that may not be an issue even putting the one they recommend, for west coast weather, not having the highest cranking amps may be OK, for cold temps, like in your area, the bat with the higher cranking amps may be a good option if you don't want to be stranded one day if you don't have a towing or repair service to get a jump to go home.


That's exactly what I did. I know when I looked in the Costco car battery guide, it lists their battery as 500CCA, which is the same as OEM. But I (and cant remember where I found out), use a bigger one and it has 640CCA, its bigger and heavier but when it comes ot batteries, bigger=better.

640CCA for a Costco battery that costs me $95CDN is a steal lol. The Deka is only 40CCA more (680) and the Northstart is 740CCA. Which for a 2 door, a 740CCA battery would be a beast. Man it would be so nice to have 740CCA. I bet that thing would be a powerhouse in the winter. But last year my 640CCA Costco did just fine in the winter.

Im not going to lie I really want that Northstar lol.

I did a test this morning after the car has sat overnight and the reading (with car off) went from 12.8 to 12.4. So still the same drop as on the old battery, so the old battery wasn't defective. 

But it was still worth the swap because I now have a battery that hits 12.8V when fully charged and has just 1 partial discharge cycle vs over 300-350 on the old one lol.

I did a test, I drove for 15mins around the neighbourhood and hit the freeway for 3mins and it actually was long enough to fully charge the battery! I was shocked. I did maybe 7km.

So apparently my car charges the battery VERY QUICKLY. I will have to do another test in the winter, but like I said last winter I did a test where I drove for 15mins just maybe 5km and it was enough to bring the battery from 12.2V to 12.63V. And it was about -10C that day.

Someone here mentioned installing a batery gauge in the car. I wouldnt mind doing this is the part is cheap and its fairly easy to do. I would have to find a spot on my dash to mount it though. But it sure would be nice driving the car and knowing when the battery has finished topping up especially in the winter. Plus saves me from having to pop the hood each time and pull out the DMM.

Also, I store a USB booster jumper pack in my trunk with the spare tire. I can boost the car withot needing another car battery. I just need to bring it in the house every month months or so to make sure its fully charged. Would hate to need to use it and find out the battery is too low from it sitting too long lol


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

12.4 V would not be a discharge, even 12 volts would not be a discharged battery, I think. You simply want to make sure, you charge it when it is between 12 and 12.4 and by all means avoid letting drop below 12 volts if possible.

Battery sulfation, from what I read does not take place above 11.5 volts, meaning, no worries if it goes down below 12 V and above 11.5, what hurts it is leaving it at that voltage for a long time, the best thing is to charge with the smart charger or if it even starts the engine, give it a good drive.

I left my cabin light on for about 12 hrs one night by mistake, and it did not start and it did strange things, I checked the voltage and it was about 11.7 V, used my charger for about 1 hr, and it started, it worked fine afterward but that was the reason I decided to exchange it after 3 years and 9 months. 


You are going to be fine, a 5 ch amp will not provide any issues, it is your starting device that can give you some issues. If you monitor it, and charge when not in use when possible you may only have to change it every 2 years.

Another tip, and experience I had recently, while driving on 12.5 volts display, and listening to Pop constant beat music with bass, I noticed a hesitation for second, while turning and driving slow, excess current not detected by the car computer, my guess if car charging system keeps a charge at 12.5V, any spike of power demands will cause that hesitation for a brief moment. When I had the lights on, I had no issues like that, and lately I noticed that I do not need to have the headlights on, I use the parking lights and that keeps the voltage above 14 from what I noticed during city driving. If you worried about your HID lights burning, maybe that is the ideal option in your situation, assuming your car works the same way. Without a voltage meter is hard to know how your car behaves, and what steps to take to care for the battery.


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## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> 12.4 V would not be a discharge, even 12 volts would not be a discharged battery, I think. You simply want to make sure, you charge it when it is between 12 and 12.4 and by all means avoid letting drop below 12 volts if possible.
> 
> Battery sulfation, from what I read does not take place above 11.5 volts, meaning, no worries if it goes down below 12 V and above 11.5, what hurts it is leaving it at that voltage for a long time, the best thing is to charge with the smart charger or if it even starts the engine, give it a good drive.
> 
> ...


True not to go below 12V but from what I read, 12.4V is about 70% battery left, 12V is about 25%. Are those accurate?

I think until I get the smart charger here and installed, I will make it a habit of driving the car every day, even if its just for 15mins, enough time to charge the battery. I really want to avoid having it go down to 12V because that is a very deep cycle. 

This is exactly what happened to my very first battery (the one beffore I just swapped), is that eventually the battery just completely lost it's charge, even though at that time, the car was a DD and it was on the highway 95% of the time. So me driving it long enough and fast enough speed to charge the battery was no issue. Why it completely lost it's charge was beyond me. 

The funny thing? Once I charged it, the battery was still good. But I still replaced it.

If I didn't have the smart charger, I would still plan on replacing the battery once a year if not every 10 months. But now that I will be putting one in, I think I could perhaps extend that to 1.5 years. I think I could possibly go 2 years, with the charger and plugging it in whenever I can, but that's pushing it. I will probably plan for every 1.5 years to replace it.

I know changing the battery is easy but I've always found it to be a complete pain in the ass on my car, mainly because there isn't a lot of space around the battery area and the damn batteries are so damn heavy to get in and out of and lug around.

So when you had your beats playing and headlights off, you noticed a delay in your music? Wierd. Isn't your amp a lot more powerful than mine? I haven't noticed any delay at all with just my DRLs running.

So your car brings the voltage up from 12.5V to 14+V by just turning the parking lights on? Interesting. I never knew those small lights would drive the voltage up. That's not a bad idea. If I notice any delay or stuttering in my music down the road with just the DRL's on, then Ill try this. The only bad thing that I see coming from it is that you will just need to replace your parking lights more often and perhaps the fuse will burn out sooner. But cheap fixes.


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