# SINFONI is BACK!!!! subterFUSE's Audi S6 build 100+ pics



## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

John and I initially met when he was seeking a pair of Dynaudio subwoofers for his new car, and afterward when I hosted a joint IASCA/MECA competition at my shop in Orlando, FL. John entered the competition with an impressive system, but his primary interest was hearing the other competitors’ cars to learn as much as possible about improving the audio in his car. Shortly after the competition, John brought his Audi to me for some tuning assistance. What started as a retune eventually turned into the complete system overhaul you will read about here.

John asked what I would do differently to improve on his car and I said the speakers he had were fine, but he should consider a different amp setup and DSP. The previous system had been running off a single, 5-channel amplifier which was definitely underpowered for his 8” Beyma midbass. I suggested he look at Sinfoni to meet his needs for sonic clarity. After a day of research John was on board with Sinfoni……surprised it took a day :OP

I also suggested he look into a DSP with more versatile tuning features, like a parametric EQ. John’s research led him to find rumors of a new, yet unreleased, DSP from Helix known as the “DSP Pro.” A quick call to one of my contacts confirmed there would be a new Helix DSP Pro coming soon, and John was keen on being one of the early adopters.

Next I contacted Emilios Mandalios of Sinfoni to get started on putting the proper amplifier selection together. If you don’t already know Emilios, he certainly knows his stuff when it comes to the best of best in equipment. Formerly of Dynaudio, Emilios is more recently responsible for the re-introduction of the Sinfoni brand back to the States. Taking into consideration the goals John had for improving on his existing system, Emilios recommended a Sinfoni Grave for his pair of Dynaudio Esotar 1200 subwoofers, two Sinfoni Presto amplifiers each bridged on a single Beyma 8G40 midbass, and a Sinfoni Prestigio to power his Ultra Horns by Eric Stevens. This amplifier setup would give him more than enough power for the IB subwoofers, while almost doubling the power to his midbass. The horns would also benefit from the glorious, true Class A power of the Prestigio.

Not satisfied with simply swapping out the amplifiers, John insisted on a complete rewiring of the car with high-end cable to compliment the Sinfoni amplfiiers. Steven Hill of Straight Wire was brought in for his expertise on wiring for the new build. Steven and John had the opportunity to talk at length during an SQ Meet which I organized last year. Steven’s knowledge and expertise in the science of cables is beyond compare, and John was immediately convinced that Sinfoni and Straight Wire were the right combination for his car. So with everyone on board the build commenced. Hold on because he we go!

The car is an Audi S6. A nice place to start if you ask me. Being an Audi fan I'm a bit biased. 





The purpose of the build was to improve upon the previous system, although very little remains from before other than the speakers. Everything beyond that is either new, or has been reworked.

The Equipment List

mObridge DA1 preamp
Audison BitPlay HD media player
Helix DSP Pro
Sinfoni Prestigio - running the horn-loaded compression drivers
Sinfoni Presto (x2) - one amp bridged on each midbass
Sinfoni Grave - bridged to the subwoofers
Eric Stevens Ultra Horns (Full Sized)
Beyma 8G40 midbass
Dynaudio Esotar 1200 subwoofers

To start things off the entire interior was gutted so that sound dampening could be applied to the floor and the system wiring could be ran. 







After talking with Alan of ORCA the plan was to apply Focal BAM to the floor and then to do a layer of MLV (mass loaded vinyl) on top of it. 











The MLV was provided by Sound Deadener Showdown. To go to the extreme we did 2 layers of MLV where most would be happy with one. Each layer had a layer of fleece applied to it to give it a decoupling layer.





With the MLV in place the OEM A/C duct work and wiring was put back in place. The addition of the Focal BAM and the MLV didn't add too much that interfered with putting the carpet back in.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Once the floor was done the rear deck received the same attention. A layer of Focal BAM and 2 layers of MLV.









Some Black Hole Tiles had already being installed inside the front doors, but since since we were going the extra mile more Tiles were added.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Luxury Liner Pro from Second Skin was added to the door to replace the OEM foam barrier. It's an MLV product with a 1/4" layer of closed-cell, acoustical foam. The combination product makes installation easier in the doors where gravity is working against you.







After all of our dampening efforts, John reported a measured reduction in road noise from 85db to 65db at 70mph on the highway. Yes. That's a huge dramatic drop in road noise.

Once the dampening had been attended to, the wiring was next on the list. Steven recommended the Straight Wire TPR 4/15 speaker cable. The 2 red leads and 2 black leads were twisted to make one. The ends were color-coded, heat shrunk and the wiring was covered in color-coded tech flex. The tech flex provides added protection and quick identification in case of diagnosing problems.





The speaker wire in the doors was run along OEM wiring and zip tied every 6". 









Next up was running speaker cable into the doors. I found that it was actually an easy process to run wire into the doors thanks to the Bang & Olufsen upgrade system that has fiber optic running into the doors. John's S6 didn't have that upgraded option so the optical location within the door's molex plug was open. It was this space that I used to run the wire into the doors.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Once inside the car the speaker cable was ran along the sides of the interior held down by Hush Mat Quite Tape every 6". The runs were ran over the Focal BAM mat to decouple the wire from mechanical interference caused by being laid directly on body metal - Another pro-tip from Steven.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

A USB cable and video cable was ran from the center console. The USB hooks up to the Helix Pro DSP and the video cable provides a video link into the OEM Audi MMI screen for the Audison BitPlay.











The cable runs enter the trunk through a passage behind the back seat bolster. 





With the driver side done the passenger side received the same treatment.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

With the dampening and wiring done the interior was put back in along with the speakers. 









The center console MMI input housing was modified to accept an USB plug and allow the video input cable to be used.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

With the front of the vehicle attended to, the rear work began. Once again, Steven recommended some of the Straight WIre 4ga power cable for the install. Not to be confused with standard power/ground cable. 

The ground cable has an interior layer of polyurethane (yellow) that was formulated to keep the heat inside the wire to ensure that the electrons would flow efficiently. 





The power cable is built similar to an RCA cable with a braided metal shield. Like the ground cable, the power cable has a layer of the polyurethane, and over that the braided shield. The shielding is designed to be grounded and offer a filter for any inducted interference, providing a noise-free cable.











The cable was covered in colored coded tech flex and heat shrink.







The cable run from the OEM battery to the system's main fuse was cut to 18".


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Since the power cable is only available in 4ga. 2 runs were ran off the battery to the main fuse.







OEM ground lungs provided a grounding location for the system's grounding. Like the power cable 2 ground cables were ran.





The cables are held down with loop zip ties that are screwed down to ensure the thicker cable was secured.





For a system turn on lead an added fuse circuit was used with it's own fusing.





The wire runs were zip tied into place.









A layer of Focal BAM mat was also applied to the underside of the rear deck. The cable runs were secured in place with screw down zip ties.





Power runs sorted signal source was addressed. John wanted a pure digital so a moBridge was used for OEM integration. The moBridge DA1 was mounted to the OEM amplifier rack.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Straight Wire optical cable was used for the run off the moBridge to the Helix DSP Pro.





The optical cable was wrapped in fabric tape to give an OEM appearance.





The switch to disable the moBridge was put into the OEM amplifier rack and with the trunk access panel down can be easily accessed. This switch disables the mObridge during Audi service appointments so that the car doesn’t report any trouble codes to the Audi technicians when they scan the car.





With everything back in place the OEM amplifier and wiring appear to still be stock.





All the signal cables were tied up and the excess optical cable was spooled up. 







The amplifier rack mounting board was bolted to the rear deck using nutserts.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Now for the art work……the amplifier rack. The rack was designed to be mounted to the underside of the rear deck and house the Sinfoni Presto (x2), Sinfoni Grave, Sinfoni Prestigio, Audison BitPlay and Helix DSP Pro. Yes, all of that on one board. Great time and attention to detail was used to ensure a clean layout for all the equipment and cable runs for the equipment. Steven recommended the Straight Wire Rhapsody RCAs for their unyielding performance. These are a step above the Encore I used on nepl29's BMW 5 series project, and I thought those cables were out of control. The power/ground cables were covered in color coded tech flex and the ends heat shrunk.





Given the complex setup I was forced to use a barrier strip, as many know I can't stand these things but they have their uses but it was only for power distribution. The strip was set up to provide a distribution for power/ground and turn on. The turn on lead starts with a run to the DSP and then the DSP turn on lead out runs to a relay that is distributed along the strip for the various pieces.

















Getting a good pic of the rack in the car is a difficult task. Also looking at it while it's on display is difficult as well. To remedy that we use a piece of plexiglass mirror to show it off.





Now we get to the part where a description of the sound is had. Well. I'll first say this: We have already competed at this years SBN, and to the shock of the crowd not only did we take 1st Place in IASCA SQC Pro/Am, but did it by nearly a 10 point margin from 2nd. John will surely be giving you his impressions but a common response to the car was that is not a horn car. One judge commented saying he usually doesn't care for horn cars, but this one he liked. Another judge commented on the sub bass performance and was amazed at the detail it had.





I think I can fully say the system was improved upon and this is only the start. The version that will be on display at Finals will surely be an eye catcher.


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## abusiveDAD (Jan 7, 2009)

Just lovely...
Looks like you spent more time taking pics than the install...lol


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## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Very nice pro install....
Sinfoni still my fav. amp for mid/high...


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## beef316 (Dec 12, 2006)

Excellent work Russ!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Love it! Attention to detail is above and beyond. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I am so thrilled with the work Russ has done to improve on the car. The success at SBN was truly a shocker for both of us, but we really credit Emilios and Steven for their guidance and recommendations. The Sinfoni amps have made a huge difference in power, warmth and clarity.

A funny thing about how this install was completed.... Russ never actually heard the car playing music until the Friday of SBN. I ran into a bit of a scheduling conflict which forced Russ to get the amp rack installed in a hurry, and I had to leave before he even got a chance to hear a single note of music played. All of that work and no sonic gratification. :laugh:

For the next few weeks I was traveling a lot and had to work on the setup and tuning of the new DSP Pro when time allowed. I had not gotten any further than setting the amp gains and initial crossovers and I was messaging Russ to tell him how the horns already sounded so much improved, even without an ounce of EQ applied. While taking the car for a first ride with music playing, I couldn't resist turning up the volume. I was amazed by not only the added power, but also by how effortless it sounded when the volume was up.

The most obvious improvement to me has been in the midbass. The Beyma 8G40s have gone from receiving 140W each, to 250W. It also doesn't hurt that they are each getting a dedicated Presto amp bridged mono. 

The Grave is an excellent match for the Dynaudio Esotar subwoofers. It's delivering 950W into 2ohms mono. While on paper it's actually lower power than my previous amp was delivering to the subs, it certainly doesn't sound like it. There's more than enough power. The subs are actually dialed down a bit in the DSP, and the amp gains are kept near minimum. Emilios is very familiar with the Esotar subs being that he used to work for Dynaudio. At his suggestion, we are running a 20Hz high-pass filter to protect the Esotars from over-excursion.

The Ultra Horns from Eric Stevens are working beautifully with the Prestigio. It's rated at 65W x 2 @ 4 ohms. The compression drivers are 8 ohm, so we're seeing more like 30W. That's about the max recommended for the compression drivers due to their high sensitivity. They have to be dialed back about 8dB in the DSP so the midbass can keep up, and the amp gains are near minimum.


The Helix DSP Pro is an outstanding piece of processing gear. The sound quality is excellent, and the user interface is so intuitive. Just hand the laptop over to any person and within minutes they can navigate the software and focus on tuning.


Of course, none of the above matters without a great install. Russ has certainly delivered. Sharp attention to even the smallest details is a hallmark of his work. Just an example: While Russ was building the amp rack, I was studying the new amplifiers. The Prestos and Grave all require both inputs to be fed when running mono. I mentioned to Russ we might need some Y adapters from the DSP. He said, don't worry... I have it covered. The solution? Certainly not an adapter, and certainly not any cable splicing. He called Steven @ Straight Wire to have custom Rhapsody RCA Y cables made specifically for this build.


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

i didn't realize Mr Hill and the boys down there made any car audio specific wire, but i have always been a fan of their work. nice job!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

awesome install.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Octave said:


> Now we get to the part where a description of the sound is had. Well. I'll first say this: We have already competed at this years SBN, and to the shock of the crowd not only did we take 1st Place in IASCA SQC Pro/Am, but did it by nearly a 10 point margin from 2nd. *John will surely be giving you his impressions but a common response to the car was that is not a horn car. One judge commented saying he usually doesn't care for horn cars, but this one he liked. Another judge commented on the sub bass performance and was amazed at the detail it had.*
> 
> .


Still annoys the **** out of me to hear judges continue to make these sorts of comments. Ive been dealing with it for years!!!!
Its all about the music and can a car reproduce the music the way it was intended. Shouldnt matter what equipment is being used...

Nice build, Kudos to you on your success

oh and my horns were run off a JL 900/5 Bridged....Mids bridged off a 600/4...no such thing as too much POWER!!!


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## eling23 (Oct 13, 2014)

remember reading about your previous build some time ago, nice upgrade!


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

nice install, nice equipment


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

Russ nice work as always, and those are some sexy legs you got there:laugh:,I only hope people realize the amount of time in just stripping this car down like that and putting it back together alone. not to mention all the work and design that went into making this happen. congrats on both of you for your win.Stilll want to hear this car


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2015)

subterFUSE:
I've been looking forward to this install for some time now... You know I'm a BIG Sinfoni fan...! That Prestigio is simply a perfect choice for ES Ultra HLCD's... Just perfect... At 30 watts per side it's almost entirely in A Class mode..

Hoping to have an opportunity to get some quality seat time at a MECA show...

Best wishes,
JW


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

Just want to thank everyone for the kind words. This was a rewarding build. And we just getting started 



abusiveDAD said:


> Just lovely...
> Looks like you spent more time taking pics than the install...lol


Yea. I took a lot of pics but I like showing off the work done behind the scenes 



capea4 said:


> i didn't realize Mr Hill and the boys down there made any car audio specific wire, but i have always been a fan of their work. nice job!


Yessir. The cables used are basically their home audio cables. Steven is a huge car audio nut so he puts together cables that are specific for each one of my builds.



Mic10is said:


> Still annoys the **** out of me to hear judges continue to make these sorts of comments. Ive been dealing with it for years!!!!
> Its all about the music and can a car reproduce the music the way it was intended. Shouldnt matter what equipment is being used...


Given horns are amongst the more difficult setups to tune I can understand a judge making that statement. But I've known this judge for some time now and I can say he didn't judge the car with bias against the horns.



jpeezy said:


> Russ nice work as always, and those are some sexy legs you got there:laugh:,I only hope people realize the amount of time in just stripping this car down like that and putting it back together alone. not to mention all the work and design that went into making this happen. congrats on both of you for your win.Stilll want to hear this car


Hey now! Looks like all the gym time is paying off, lol. I'm working on getting my show season setup so I'm sure you'll have the chance to get a listen.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Octave said:


> Given horns are amongst the more difficult setups to tune I can understand a judge making that statement. But I've known this judge for some time now and I can say he didn't judge the car with bias against the horns.



We will agree to disagree..much easier for me to tune a horn car than one using conventional drivers. 

Making any comments about any speakers used shows that there was a preconceived notion about how the car should sound which is a form of a bias. 

whether its saying that someone using Dyn, Focal, HAT speakers in a particular install didnt sound like those speaker or arguing that there is no way someone is running horns (happened to me)...equipment shouldnt matter.


Any pics of front stage? front end of the car?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

There are some pictures of the front of the car in the HLCD section.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

Very nice work, especially in the deadening/dampening!

I know the original speakers were not part of this work package, but can we get some pictures to tie it all together please?

subterFUSE - Not sure if I read your post correctly, but did you compete at SBN with no EQ applied to the system (just xover/level adjustments)? If so, that is quite indicative of a well designed and executed system!

Again, nice work guys!!


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

An amazing car with an amazing install. Attention to detail is "upper shelf" . Bravo!!!!!
Thank you for posting all of the pictures. Very cool !


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

Fantastic work and attention to detail! Question: when you hooked up the moBridge - did you simply unplug the MOST connector from the factory amp and plugged it into the moBridge or did you split and extend the loop to include the moBridge? About to embark on something similar in my Audi but with the Audison bit DMI.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SQ_TSX said:


> subterFUSE:
> I've been looking forward to this install for some time now... You know I'm a BIG Sinfoni fan...! That Prestigio is simply a perfect choice for ES Ultra HLCD's... Just perfect... At 30 watts per side it's almost entirely in A Class mode..
> 
> Hoping to have an opportunity to get some quality seat time at a MECA show...
> ...


Yes, I am really happy with all of the Sinfoni amps so far. Everything sounds great, I have more power than I realistically need, and there have been no heat issues at all. The amps seem to be coasting along even though 3 of them are bridged into their lowest impedance rating.

I'm going to try to make as many shows as I can in the southeast region this year, so hopefully I'll run into you sometime.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SQram said:


> Very nice work, especially in the deadening/dampening!
> 
> I know the original speakers were not part of this work package, but can we get some pictures to tie it all together please?
> 
> ...



No. At SBN we had the system tuned with EQ and time alignment, although we were still making adjustments up to the last minute. When I got there on Friday, Russ and I worked together on some quick adjustments. He did the time alignment and I did the EQ. On Saturday morning, I got to the arena early while it was still quiet and I broke out the RTA for last-minute measurements and adjusting. It really was right down to the wire. I don't EVER want to be in that position again. :laugh:

In my earlier post, I was just making a point that when I was getting started with the new amps I noticed an improvement right away, even before any EQ was applied.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

carlr said:


> Fantastic work and attention to detail! Question: when you hooked up the moBridge - did you simply unplug the MOST connector from the factory amp and plugged it into the moBridge or did you split and extend the loop to include the moBridge? About to embark on something similar in my Audi but with the Audison bit DMI.


The mObridge is super-easy to install. You simply unplug the MOST cable from the OEM amplifier, and plug it into the mObridge. The factory MOST harness plugs right into the mObridge with no modifications needed.

If you need to extend the MOST cable, the mObridge comes with an optical extension cable and adapters. The extra cable is NOT for keeping the factory amp in the MOST loop. The OEM amp must be disconnected from MOST for the mObridge to work. I learned this the hard way. At first, we had connected the Bose amp into the loop with the mObridge and the cable extensions. The MMI screen would not open at all. Once I got the Bose out of the picture, everything worked great.

My car came with the Bose factory system. So the MOST cable was unplugged from the Bose amp. Once the Bose amp was unplugged, the MMI system actually downgrades the audio section to the base level with GALA. The Bose DSP options in the MMI menu go away.


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks for the swift reply, much appreciated! I was leaning towards this anyway, so good to have it confirmed, cheers.

Might as well show my "set up to be":










This will go into a 2010 Audi Q7 - build log coming up here soon!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Digging the build, and the car.


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## vietjdmboi (Jan 3, 2015)

carlr said:


> Thanks for the swift reply, much appreciated! I was leaning towards this anyway, so good to have it confirmed, cheers.
> 
> Might as well show my "set up to be":
> 
> ...


any reason youre going audison vs mobridge?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Those midbasses don't give those doors hell do they?

Always liked Straight Wire...then and Cardas I like a lot.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice Build. I love my Sinfoni amps. Would love to hear it some day!


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

vietjdmboi said:


> any reason youre going audison vs mobridge?


None other than the fact that I was struggling to find a dealer who carried the moBridge products in Sweden - Audison are well represented. Ultimately I think there is very little difference between the Audison and moBridge product.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

carlr said:


> None other than the fact that I was struggling to find a dealer who carried the moBridge products in Sweden - Audison are well represented. Ultimately I think there is very little difference between the Audison and moBridge product.


They are the exact same product, just in different clothing.

In fact, I heard that if you can't find the Audison firmware updates you can just download the mObridge version and load it. I'm pretty sure someone already did this because Audison is not usually very good about software releases in a timely fashion.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Those midbasses don't give those doors hell do they?
> 
> Always liked Straight Wire...then and Cardas I like a lot.



The midbass are doing well in the doors. There is a tremendous amount of dampening involved. The outer door skin is covered in CLD, and then has a layer of Black Hole tiles. Both sides of the inner door skin have CLD. All of the holes in the inner door skin have been closed with molded ABS baffles with foam layers in between the metal and the ABS. Those were all screwed into place with nutserts. Then we added a layer of Luxury Liner Pro. For those that are not familiar with it, Luxury Liner Pro is a combination product of Mass Loaded Vinyl and Closed-Cell Foam. The layers are glued together when they manufacture the stuff, so it's much easier to work with than separate layers of each. This is really helpful inside of the doors because you only need to worry about securing the one layer rather than two.

There is a foam ring around the front of the woofer to form a gasket with the door panel. This helps keep the sound in the car and not behind the door panel.


All that being said, I have already told Russ that the next project with this car will likely see the midbass moved to the kick panels. I am hoping that their performance might be improved by moving the speakers to the kicks where there would be fewer obstructions in direct line with the speakers. (i.e. the center console)


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

That is a gorgeous car! Another incredible job by Russ - fantastic attention to detail - and 'all in' approach. I've not had the privilege of hearing a Sinfoni powered system, but I have always admired their aesthetic qualities. 

I'm not sure how close you might get to North Carolina, but I'll see if I can make an event in the South East so I can hear this car


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Octave said:


> With the front of the vehicle attended to, the rear work began. Once again, Steven recommended some of the Straight WIre 4ga power cable for the install. Not to be confused with standard power/ground cable.
> 
> The ground cable has an interior layer of polyurethane (yellow) that was formulated to keep the heat inside the wire to ensure that the electrons would flow efficiently.
> 
> ...




I'm a little confused by this. Is the shielding supposed to prevent noise from entering the power cable? Or is it designed to keep other nearby cables from picking up noise from the power cable?

Any science behind this? I'd like to read up on it.



Nice clean build and wiring job.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

bertholomey said:


> That is a gorgeous car! Another incredible job by Russ - fantastic attention to detail - and 'all in' approach. I've not had the privilege of hearing a Sinfoni powered system, but I have always admired their aesthetic qualities.
> 
> I'm not sure how close you might get to North Carolina, but I'll see if I can make an event in the South East so I can hear this car


I'm in the process of moving to SC, so I won't be far from NC.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Where abouts in SC?

I've seen similar power wire from Brax about a decade ago...and I remember Straight Wire having that power wire in a buyer's guide probably 15 years a go, didn't know they still made it. I became a fan after Earl Zausmmer's car.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> Those midbasses don't give those doors hell do they?


Like John said the doors are pretty well dampened. Given that there are 8s in there doing work there's very little resonance. 



bertholomey said:


> That is a gorgeous car! Another incredible job by Russ - fantastic attention to detail - and 'all in' approach. I've not had the privilege of hearing a Sinfoni powered system, but I have always admired their aesthetic qualities.
> 
> I'm not sure how close you might get to North Carolina, but I'll see if I can make an event in the South East so I can hear this car


Thanks man  this is definitely an "all in".....that would be a good project name. 

I'm sure John will be around those parts doing some shows. Don't you guys do a SQ GTG up there? 



captainobvious said:


> I'm a little confused by this. Is the shielding supposed to prevent noise from entering the power cable? Or is it designed to keep other nearby cables from picking up noise from the power cable?
> 
> Any science behind this? I'd like to read up on it.
> 
> ...


The shielding is designed to keep noise from entering the wire. The ground pictured has just the thermal layer in it designed to keep the heat of the cable in. Yes. I said keep the heat of the cable inside. Steven told me the science behind it all but it was above my pay grand lol  I could probably forward you Steven's email so you can ask him all the questions. There's nothing written down as far as all the science goes.



thehatedguy said:


> I've seen similar power wire from Brax about a decade ago...and I remember Straight Wire having that power wire in a buyer's guide probably 15 years a go, didn't know they still made it. I became a fan after Earl Zausmmer's car.


Yes. They still make it. Once I realized it I was like "MUST HAVE!!!"


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Octave said:


> Thanks man  this is definitely an "all in".....that would be a good project name.
> 
> I'm sure John will be around those parts doing some shows. Don't you guys do a SQ GTG up there?


Awesome! I'd love to run some tracks through this system. 

We do have a Spring Meet coming up at the end of the month in NC 

NC Spring Meet


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

My doors are similar in damping, so gives me hope about putting some mids in the doors.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Damn it seems like everyone is moving to the Carolina's. 

Nice system upgrade. Love to hear it some day.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

As a life long resident of NC, I would be heading to SC given the choice. Wouldn't have said that 10-15 years a go. I am only about 10-12 miles from SC, and would move across the line in a heat beat if I could.


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Nice build like always!

Love to hear it one day... You coming to Texas? Or I'll be at SBN next year.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Love it! Very nice.


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

beautiful work. But i do have 1 question.

What costs more, an S6, or this build? Joking... but also serious - I have never seen Sinfoni prices.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> My doors are similar in damping, so gives me hope about putting some mids in the doors.


I think the other key is making sure all the energy coming off the woofer is directed into the interior and not into the door panel. When in doubt I use fabric electrical tape on pieces that resonate against each other.



SouthSyde said:


> Nice build like always!
> 
> Love to hear it one day... You coming to Texas? Or I'll be at SBN next year.


Trying to get John to go out for the Texas show  you were missed at this year's SBN. Harold missed you the most lol 



DLO13 said:


> beautiful work. But i do have 1 question.
> 
> What costs more, an S6, or this build? Joking... but also serious - I have never seen Sinfoni prices.


John stopped looking at the invoice after a while  But hey. Anything done right is not easy or cheap.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The "iron" law of car audio- good, fast, cheap...pick 2.


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## Yawar538 (Aug 28, 2013)

One great install. Mind sharing pics of dash after installation?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Texas would be a seriously long shot. I'm not going to put those miles on the car. Only way I'd do it is if I trailer it there, and that's not exactly sounding like a fun road trip.


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

especially with the used market killing the resale on these cars! $20-$30K?? wow


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

subterFUSE said:


> Texas would be a seriously long shot. I'm not going to put those miles on the car. Only way I'd do it is if I trailer it there, and that's not exactly sounding like a fun road trip.


Caravan with Russ and Mr. Steve Head.  YOu will have some of the best ears in the industry there to help ya with the car. Take it to another level!

OOO and dont forget the best bbq in the world!


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

SouthSyde said:


> Caravan with Russ and Mr. Steve Head.  YOu will have some of the best ears in the industry there to help ya with the car. Take it to another level!
> 
> OOO and dont forget the best bbq in the world!


BBQ!! Did someone say.....BBQ!?!  I'm there dude. Wait...you already knew that but you did say BBQ. Got me excited


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Octave said:


> BBQ!! Did someone say.....BBQ!?!  I'm there dude. Wait...you already knew that but you did say BBQ. Got me excited


Central Tx BBQ is the best in the world!!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Maybe best beef BBQ...but North Carolina has the best pork BBQ


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Maybe best beef BBQ...but North Carolina has the best pork BBQ



NC? Whatever. SC has better BBQ than NC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

SC has bbq? Better than n.c.....dude, yer trippin.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

South Carolina Election Results - The Colbert Report - Video Clip | Comedy Central


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Lmao......I guess you can find bad bbq here......but I go where it's good...... his bit was funny.......there are also three different region styles too.........


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

claydo said:


> Lmao......I guess you can find bad bbq here......but I go where it's good...... his bit was funny.......there are also three different region styles too.........


Yeah. I'm just messing around, really.


I actually can't stand any BBQ sauce at all. If the BBQ is good, it needs nothing but a dry rub.

There's a place near my house on Sullivan's Island called Home Team BBQ.
All they do is dry rub BBQ, and it's amazing. Incredible brisket.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> Yeah. I'm just messing around, really.
> 
> I actually can't stand any BBQ sauce at all. If the BBQ is good, it needs nothing but a dry rub.
> 
> ...


I'll have to check them out - I always hit Sullivan's, Poe's Tavern, or Taco Mamacita when I'm in town.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

NC has 2 distinct sauces- the western NC that is ketchup based and the eastern NC that is vinegar based. I grew up on the eastern NC stuff since my dad/his family is from Edenton/Hertford. Down around Columbia, SC you'll find a mustard based sauce...it's better than it sounds.

I have to confess, I have never had real Texas BBQ. I have been bugging my friend in Austin for the last 12-13 years to over night me some brisket and burnt ends but to no avail...I would like to try the brisket at Johnny Mueller's place in Austin once before I kick the bucket.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Sadly, the best ribs I've ever had are from a little hole-in-the-wall CHICKEN place about 4 miles from work. I had BBQ in Texas (DFW area) and it was good, don't get me wrong, but as far as ribs go, I haven't found ANY, ANYWHERE that I like better. 



Jay


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh2fl5463BE


Muellers is very good Winslow...


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I heard their brisket was better than Franklin's...which is supposed to be the best (as a whole) in the world.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

BBQ without sauce is just charred meat....and im not originally from here , so I can clearly say, NC vinegar based sauce is gross


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Man oh man, Yankees just don't know about good BBQ.

Hell in Alabama they have a white sauce for chicken that is mayo based. Would love to try that one day too.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

LOVE me some vinigar based bbq sauce. The more tart, the better.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

so..how does the car sound! 

=D just like us audio nuts..we're all foodies at heart I guess.


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## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

Mic10is said:


> BBQ without sauce is just charred meat....and im not originally from here , so I can clearly say, NC vinegar based sauce is gross


I second that.

Colbert had it right. After eating this NC stuff I nearly lost my appetite for BBQ.

The car does not sound like horns :-D


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Mic10is said:


> BBQ without sauce is just charred meat....and im not originally from here , so I can clearly say, NC vinegar based sauce is gross


You never had reallllly good BBQ then... YOu dont want to dip in the sause that would mask the flavor of the meat.


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> I heard their brisket was better than Franklin's...which is supposed to be the best (as a whole) in the world.


Mueller's is Franklin's master. Mueller sadly, I heard was a crackhead. ****ed up and had to sell Franklin his grill.


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## mayae (Apr 6, 2015)

Octave said:


> Now for the art work……the amplifier rack. The rack was designed to be mounted to the underside of the rear deck and house the Sinfoni Presto (x2), Sinfoni Grave, Sinfoni Prestigio, Audison BitPlay and Helix DSP Pro. Yes, all of that on one board. Great time and attention to detail was used to ensure a clean layout for all the equipment and cable runs for the equipment. Steven recommended the Straight Wire Rhapsody RCAs for their unyielding performance. These are a step above the Encore I used on nepl29's BMW 5 series project, and I thought those cables were out of control. The power/ground cables were covered in color coded tech flex and the ends heat shrunk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like you spent more time taking pics than the install.


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

mayae said:


> Looks like you spent more time taking pics than the install.


eh?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Russ always insists on documenting every inch of his installations because he takes a lot of pride in his work, and because he wants the customers to know that he doesn't cut corners.

For example, when installing sound dampening he actually removed all of the OEM wires and laid them back down on TOP of the dampening. It sounds trivial, but a lot of audio shops won't go to that extra effort. They usually just stick the CLD down over the OEM wires, which makes a mess and causes headaches for anyone who might need to service the car in the future.


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

subterFUSE said:


> Russ always insists on documenting every inch of his installations because he takes a lot of pride in his work, and because he wants the customers to know that he doesn't cut corners.
> 
> For example, when installing sound dampening he actually removed all of the OEM wires and laid them back down on TOP of the dampening. It sounds trivial, but a lot of audio shops won't go to that extra effort. They usually just stick the CLD down over the OEM wires, which makes a mess and causes headaches for anyone who might need to service the car in the future.


Yup. Pretty much what John just said. The only way to truly know what work has been and how well it was done is to document it. Having a camera always at your side or a phone with a camera makes it easy to snap as you go. With so many shops deemed "hack" shops because they do more damage then good taking pics is another way to show that my work is different and done right without destroying the car in the process.


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## AR15corvette (Jan 13, 2015)

Octave....Amazing attention to detail in the wiring and system layout! 

I've used some of the highest end car audio shops in TX for my installs and while they talk a "good game" trying to get my business, to this day I still can't find one that meets my expectations when it comes to attention to detail that I look for like in this Audi install. 

*Does anybody know of a car audio shop in the TX area that has the skill level and is TRULY willing to take the time to meet the same level of attention to detail as displayed in this Audi install?*

Some of my higher end cars, I've had to take off work for a few weeks to completely do my self....if I could find a competent shop in TX that takes the same pride in their work as Octave, please let me know!!!!! 

Thank you


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Where in Texas? That's a big state.


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## AR15corvette (Jan 13, 2015)

thehatedguy said:


> Where in Texas? That's a big state.


At this point, I'm willing to drive...Austin/Houston/Dallas/San Antonio

I'm so damn tired of spending $3000 on labor only (no parts) and being disappointed.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

If you shop diligently you'll always get exactly what you pay for. I can assure you 3k might get the sound dampening alone.There are hours and hours in just the sound dampening, not to mention the pictures and build logs, I've worked on vehicles that the bill was 50k +, and had to fly to bermuda to finish the job. There are shops out there,my recommendation would be to call manufacturers and their reps, and get referrals from them. I will also tell you that russ will do a fantastic job on your vehicle, but he like many other talented installers don't come cheap. you can also look up any of the top 100 installers across the U.S. as chosen by their peers.The Top 50 Retailers and Top 100 Installers - 2014. and I still want to hear this damn audi, i can't get my own horns in fast enough.


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

AR15corvette said:


> Octave....Amazing attention to detail in the wiring and system layout!
> 
> I've used some of the highest end car audio shops in TX for my installs and while they talk a "good game" trying to get my business, to this day I still can't find one that meets my expectations when it comes to attention to detail that I look for like in this Audi install.
> 
> ...


Chris Pate - Mobile Toys - College Station, Tx

Rocky - Rockstar Designs - Houston, Tx

Rick Paul - Car Toys - Houston Tx


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> The "iron" law of car audio- good, fast, cheap...pick 2.


Sums it up for most :thumbsup: 

Kelvin


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

mayae said:


> Looks like you spent more time taking pics than the install.


This appears to be a weird way of gaining his 3rd post.......instead of the usual, "that is sick!" statement that many use. 



SouthSyde said:


> Chris Pate - Mobile Toys - College Station, Tx
> 
> Rocky - Rockstar Designs - Houston, Tx
> 
> Rick Paul - Car Toys - Houston Tx


I saw examples of these shops at Finals - beautiful work!

I had the pleasure and the privilege to meet John at the recent NCSQ G2G, and I was incredibly impressed with John and John's car. John is a very down to earth dude that is passionate about this hobby, and he is very passionate about this vehicle.....and for good reason. 

I had an extended demo on Friday night when the smaller crowd gathered at my house, and then a couple additional demos on Saturday. Wow! I was extremely impressed with the quality of the install - the pics are great, but everything looks even more impressive in person. Without noticing the horns, it would be a stock install inside - I had the opportunity to be one of the first to 'break in' the stock CD transport - the interface was very straightforward, and the Helix volume control was very cool. 

Some of the crowd had some comments about a technical issue hear and there (John was making adjustments to the tune - mainly experimenting throughout the weekend, so these comments may have come as a result of some of these adjustments), but I wasn't into those technical aspects......I was just enjoying music. 

As goofy as it might sound, I got lost in this system.....could have really grabbed a stack of discs and played through all of them....for hours. It wasn't just that it sounded good - I felt it presented the music in a unique way. It wasn't just that I heard things in familiar music that I may not have heard before, but Those Horns on That Amp (no flaming, just statement of fact - those horns are connected to that amp) just presented the music in a fresh way, a fresh perspective. I liken it to going from my Peachtree Nova to my Naim NAP100 on my desk speakers. 

The car had dynamics, presence, imaging, soundstage - the goods....to my ears. If anyone has the opportunity to catch this car at a comp - it would behoove you to take a listen. Well Done John, and Well Done Russ! ??


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words, Jason.

I'm really pleased with the system in current form. Am I satisfied? Of course not. :laugh: Are any of us ever satisfied?? But I think we are getting very close to having something really special with this car. It's just a matter of time and tuning, I think. I definitely have a good understanding of the technical side of tuning, but I don't quite have the "ear" for it. Hopefully the ear will come with time. Unfortunately, I just don't find the time to spend tuning as often as I wish.

Beyond tuning, I'm patiently awaiting the new Helix Director controller. That will make for a nice addition once it's available.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Damn I really want to hear this car lol!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Is It wrong I got boner from the audio in this build ?


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

#1BigMike said:


> Damn I really want to hear this car lol!


Come out to Finals. We will be unveiling its now toys. I'll make sure you get a listen. Heck. Anyone that does make it to Finals you'll be more than welcome to get a listen. 



optimaprime said:


> Is It wrong I got boner from the audio in this build ?


Hey now!! This isn't that type of site......well there is some good porn in here. Hehehe.


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## Earlysport (Jul 23, 2015)

subterFUSE said:


> Russ always insists on documenting every inch of his installations because he takes a lot of pride in his work, and because he wants the customers to know that he doesn't cut corners.
> 
> For example, when installing sound dampening he actually removed all of the OEM wires and laid them back down on TOP of the dampening. It sounds trivial, but a lot of audio shops won't go to that extra effort. They usually just stick the CLD down over the OEM wires, which makes a mess and causes headaches for anyone who might need to service the car in the future.


I think the point is this install is a let down. No doubt the car sounds amazing and there's time taken in wiring detail etc but no actual install. Components screwed to a board under the shelf? 

It'd be so nice to see this car with some real fab and trim work to show off all that beautiful gear.

Just IMO.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2015)

My take... the intention was to maximize usable space... while being a bit unique....


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Wanted to keep my trunk space usable. Golf clubs, etc....

The battery and the electronics for the car's air suspension are in the tire well. There was no way we could put an amp rack down there without moving all that stuff, and I wasn't going to risk messing with the suspension. Yikes 

The only available space that was left for all of that equipment was under the rear deck. It's not my ideal scenario, but it's what we had to do. Ultimately, the sound quality is what matters.

Russ has some cool ideas for trimming out the amp rack, but my recent move out of Florida has obviously put a hold on things. Kinda hard to work on a car that's a 6 hour drive away. 

Anyway, we do have some new goodies in store for Finals.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> Wanted to keep my trunk space usable. Golf clubs, etc....
> 
> The battery and the electronics for the car's air suspension are in the tire well. There was no way we could put an amp rack down there without moving all that stuff, and I wasn't going to risk messing with the suspension. Yikes
> 
> ...


Thanks John - awesome response! 

Exactly what you had explained to me. I have had the opportunity to see this car a few times in person, and the install (I certainly call it that) is impeccable. And, the sound quality is fantastic! I have seen a couple pics of the 'new goodies' and they are amazing  

I just hope the car is safe and dry right now. Some of the photos out of Charleston are shocking.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I missed getting a demo at Jason's meet in April. So I made sure I got to hear it this time and it did not disappoint! Took me a second to remember that the factory Audi control knob is kinda backward from what you'd think, but after that, I was good. lol

John was a super cool guy too. Didn't find out Russ was at Finals until I saw John heading out this morning. Would have liked to shake his hand. I've been impressed by his work for a long time!

Great job John and Russ, congrats on the huge trophies.

Jay


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Congratulations John!!! I really enjoyed your car. Thanks for the Demo.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

yep. congrats on your hard work this year paying off. really nice setup you have there, my friend. look forward to seeing you again in the future.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I had the privilege of meeting up with John and hearing this amazing car again. I was able to listen to one of my previous meet discs from the Audison Bit Play, and then John played a few hi res tracks that he likes for showing the system. 

I won't go into all of the gushy stuff....fantastic sound stage, fantastic tonality, presence and realism was there in spades, the car was dynamic at low volumes, it had a very pleasing character - not in your face, but certainly not boring in any way. This is type of car you want to bring a huge hard drive or stack of discs......spending hours listening to music.....with a huge grin on your face. Thanks John for the opportunity!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Just wanted to share a quick story...

On Friday morning of finals in Huntsville (and after an evening of tuning which took a couple hours to get things tweaked just right), I walked down to the hotel parking garage to get in the Mazda and take a listen to the system and verify things before rolling into the Von Braun center. After turning the key, I noticed something odd on the Helix DSP Pro's Director controller. It wasn't syncing up with the DSP and in fact was coming up with a message that the DSP had no software loaded on it. Of course I was then in a slight bit of a panic and started trouble shooting to figure out the issue. I tried disconnecting the controller, powering on and off, connecting to the dsp, etc and it just wasn't cooperating. I walked over to John- who was working on his Audi at the time in the garage and he graciously came on over to help me out- despite still needing to run through the tune on his vehicle. After going through the problem and some troubleshooting steps, John remembered a similar problem within about 2 minutes he had a couple of "fixes" to try to resolve it. We ran through them and after the second fix, the dsp came right back up as normal and the controller worked fine.

I just wanted to point out that he went out of his way, sacrificing his own tuning time (At the world finals event no less) to help me out. Not just anyone, but a competitor in the same class as him no less. Thanks again John. Hopefully I'll be able to repay the kindness in the future.
Your system was outstanding and I was happy to see you have very good success at Finals, taking home some impressive trophies.

Congrats!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

captainobvious said:


> Just wanted to share a quick story...
> 
> On Friday morning of finals in Huntsville (and after an evening of tuning which took a couple hours to get things tweaked just right), I walked down to the hotel parking garage to get in the Mazda and take a listen to the system and verify things before rolling into the Von Braun center. After turning the key, I noticed something odd on the Helix DSP Pro's Director controller. It wasn't syncing up with the DSP and in fact was coming up with a message that the DSP had no software loaded on it. Of course I was then in a slight bit of a panic and started trouble shooting to figure out the issue. I tried disconnecting the controller, powering on and off, connecting to the dsp, etc and it just wasn't cooperating. I walked over to John- who was working on his Audi at the time in the garage and he graciously came on over to help me out- despite still needing to run through the tune on his vehicle. After going through the problem and some troubleshooting steps, John remembered a similar problem within about 2 minutes he had a couple of "fixes" to try to resolve it. We ran through them and after the second fix, the dsp came right back up as normal and the controller worked fine.
> 
> ...


thats pretty awesome of him. also, what would that fix be just for future reference?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yep.. You guys at the spring NCSQ meet made me feel greeted and welcomed to the fold of us nuts in this hobby for my first time at any type of "car audio" event, and I realized quickly I'd be a return customer. Good folks, y'all. Pure class.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> thats pretty awesome of him. also, what would that fix be just for future reference?



Don't be too quick with the praise, guys. If I had known Steve was in my class I might have just said . LOL 

It wasn't anything special that fixed the DSP. We just did a hard reset of the DSP. Then when Steve connected the laptop again, the DSP forced a firmware flash. Problem solved.

Luckily his tune was saved on the laptop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

subterFUSE said:


> Don't be too quick with the praise, guys. If I had known Steve was in my class I might have just said . LOL
> 
> It wasn't anything special that fixed the DSP. We just did a hard reset of the DSP. Then when Steve connected the laptop again, the DSP forced a firmware flash. Problem solved.
> 
> ...


i noticed a sig change. how do you like the 182's and the Ap mids over the previous setup?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> Luckily his tune was saved on the laptop.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah I've begun saving it to a Google drive folder so it's always retrievable to laptop or elsewhere. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

John, this business about swapped horns for AP drivers. Anything to share on that. Looking forward hopefully to hearing the goodness next week. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

New build log coming soon. Details contained within. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> New build log coming soon. Details contained within.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool.. Yeah I keep telling myself to get my ducks in a row and regardless how amatuer my build is at least accumulate all the pics and do a build log. Hadn't been to the point I was satisfied with my garage rooky diy work enough to actually post it. Once I get a good start on the amp rack I'll have to I think.


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## truckguy (Sep 2, 2013)

subterFUSE said:


> New build log coming soon. Details contained within.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm anxious to see hear your thoughts on the APs and if you're using the little tweeters that come with them.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Have to bump this.....I had the opportunity to listen to this system last night. It is amazing that it can get better every time I hear it. 

The stage and the imaging were perfectly spot-on. Highs-mids-lows were perfectly in balance with a wonderful blend where no specific set of drivers or frequency range trying to take center stage. The sub section was absolutely superb - masterfully done. The guys that get to hear this in April are in for a treat!


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

WOW!!!


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm really looking forward to the opportunity to listen to John's Audi.... have heard some wonderful things about it !!


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