# 13" AV.2



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

It's getting close to when it will be available , underhung designs are for Sound Quality !

edit]
As of 10/05/07

13Av.2 Specs 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I figured why beat around the bush anymore. It's in IA and we're giving demo's.

Qts : .45
Qes : .48
Qms : 7.48
Vas : 55.79
MMS : 257.05
Le : 2.18
BL : 14.81
SPL : 83.50
Re : 2.81
FS : 23.29
Xmax : 32.5MM (physical. 1.4" long coil)
1200w RMS all day. And it uses it!

13" Speaker. Underhung Design. A speaker built for sound quality in a real big way.

Something like 10" deep. 11" from top to bottom (surround to back of motor).

black chrome. New motor cooling techniques. New coil design. New treatments for power handling.

Online selling cost end cost of around 450ish. Same price we've always expressed. Yes it's more than the old 12A but it's also so much more in terms of parts and design...

It's the best of everything we can buy in terms of parts. SQ is / was / has always been the primary concern. Not everyone will love it but those who liked the 12A are going to specifically enjoy....

1. 2-3dB output over the 12A depending on frequency in the same box.
2. 1.5cF sealed box. 
3. 2.0cF Vented box.
4. True 13" design
5. About ~10" deep. Yes it's large.
6. Huge mechanical clearance improvement over 12A. Big issue with the 12A was at 25.4MM it basically was done. At xmax it had no room to breathe. Here we have almost 5" of p2p clearance. Suspension capability is into the 50+MM one way range quite easily.
7. Less moving mass / higher end efficiency over 12A. 
8. 1200w true RMS design. Slap a NINe.1 on it and enjoy 
9. Increased Low Frequency Extension. it just has the excursion to support it.

If you liked the 12A. Your going to flip **** if you can fit it. If you hated the 12A. Chances are you'll hate this too. Love it or hate it just the same It's a lot bigger, a lot better, a lot more improved and 3 years in the making. See above for 13Av.2 specs. If you have questions. Pls ask.

It also has quite a few things like new spiders, new cone, new motor from the group up, new everything. This is one big reason we are urging as many people to come in and see it just to see how unique it is. It's without a doubt just as unique as the original 12A was when it released, and moreso in a lot of ways.

Quote:
what is the size of the voice coil again 


3" Voice Coil.

Quote:
how much is this thing going to tip the scales at? 40 pounds or so? maybe even 50? 


I'll wait to release exact numbers. It's the heaviest production sub we've ever done. Putting that into perspective it's smart to plan for 40+lbs.

Please consider the basket alone weighs on the 13Av.2 weighs what the 11Kv.2 does.

It's quite a bit heavier on the bottom end. The 13Av.2 will absolutely decimate all at 20-30hz. It's the only speaker that does what a 19Ov.2 does on the bottom end that isn't a 19Ov.2 

In terms of extended low frequency response it's also the only speaker that does what it does in that size box. Basically sounds virtually identical to a old 12A. Just a lot louder with a lot more linearity.

There isn't a speaker in the world that's underhung that offers extreme bottomless clearances like this with such a linear motor design at any price that I know of. How that translates to how it sounds. Like a 12A. A lot louder with more low frequency extension.

Spiders are linear.

keep in mind the IDMAX is a very different speaker.
IDMAX = Overhung
13Av.2 = Underhung

IDMAX = 2" voice coil
13Av.2 = 3" voice coil

IDMAX = Single 8" Spider
13Av.2 = Dual 9.2" Spiders

The 13Av.2 design (as it's called before production right now) is where it will start. A true 13" subwoofer design that's 100% eD. Our parts. Our everything. $450 USD is the price projected for this product.

The outside dimensions of my box are 18" tall x 19" wide x 15" deep at the bottom of the wedge and 12" deep at the top of the wedge. The wedge is about 10 degrees.

When I plugged those numbers into the eD box builder, it came back with 1.75 cf, but the sub is flush mounted so the baffle is double-walled and there is also internal bracing so after that and the sub displacement, it is very close to 1.5 cf.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

This pos isn't out yet?

Good lawd, I thought they'd already started selling them.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

This sub is going to kick some ass.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

mvw2 said:


> This sub is going to kick some ass.


True Dat , underhung and some serious throw !!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Hic said:


> This is one big reason we are urging as many people to come in and see it just to see how unique it is. It's without a doubt just as unique as the original 12A was when it released, and moreso in a lot of ways.


moreso uniqueness FTW!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Would you say this sub should...moreso or lesso....have its uniqueness patented??


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> Would you say this sub should...moreso or lesso....have its uniqueness patented??





> It's the best of everything we can buy in terms of parts.


Not sure if you can patent that. I don't mean to offend anybody who is anxiously awaiting these things - I'm just having fun with Mr Milne's inability to construct a sentence or communicate a coherent thought - no way that can possibly impact the quality of the products he sells  I sincerely hope this works out well for everyone involved.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

I got mine in the mail today. Its freakin massive. I don't currently have a system in my car so I can't test it out. My build is sort of on hold at the moment. It sure does look purdy though.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

bryanwescoe said:


> I got mine in the mail today. Its freakin massive. I don't currently have a system in my car so I can't test it out. My build is sort of on hold at the moment. It sure does look purdy though.


I cant wait until these start popping up in the forsale section.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

I have to decide what I want to do with my car. I'm 3 months away from finishing college and am a little tight with money. I've got some pretty good gear awaiting install but I still need a head unit and front comps. I might just patch something together to get it an and finish it this summer.

If I decide differently, Mine might find its way to the FS section.


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

You won't see mine there anytime soon. that big underhung bastard is a head turner.


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Not sure if you can patent that. I don't mean to offend anybody who is anxiously awaiting these things - I'm just having fun with Mr Milne's inability to construct a sentence or communicate a coherent thought - no way that can possibly impact the quality of the products he sells  I sincerely hope this works out well for everyone involved.


He definitely needs a proof reader, he always spells opportunity as oppertunity.


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

i think this sub should do good.. granted ED has a so so name some people love them some hate them. but the sub design seems flawless .. no risk of overdriving to sub and bottoming out the voice coil and underhung is just the way to go.. dual spiders... 32mm of xmax... the only down side to this sub is its shear size and weight


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

mobeious said:


> i think this sub should do good.. granted ED has a so so name some people love them some hate them. but the sub design seems flawless .. no risk of overdriving to sub and bottoming out the voice coil and underhung is just the way to go.. dual spiders... 32mm of xmax... the only down side to this sub is its shear size and weight


Yeah, the shear size of the thing will make it unusable for alot of installs...forget about stealth with this thing.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

I am very curious about an underhung design that has a 1.4" voice coil. How do you keep the Bl high throughout the entire gap?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

JayBee said:


> He definitely needs a proof reader, he always spells opportunity as oppertunity.


Yeah, too bad there isn't some sort of software that could automatically detect misspelled words - imagine if it could offer a list of alternatives to select from. Oh well, it'll never happen and he'd still have that whole sentence/paragraph problem to sort out.


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Yeah, too bad there isn't some sort of software that could automatically detect misspelled words - imagine if it could offer a list of alternatives to select from. Oh well, it'll never happen and he'd still have that whole sentence/paragraph problem to sort out.


subtle


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

JayBee said:


> subtle


Just having some fun at someone else's expense. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Who can we laugh at if we can't laugh at other people?


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Just having some fun at someone else's expense. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Who can we laugh at if we can't laugh at other people?


That is actually one of my motos.


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## dtviewer (Dec 18, 2006)

SSSnake said:


> I am very curious about an underhung design that has a 1.4" voice coil. How do you keep the Bl high throughout the entire gap?



What am I missing? I thought it has a 3" voice coil?


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

dtviewer said:


> What am I missing? I thought it has a 3" voice coil?


3 inch wide, 1.4" long coil


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

JayBee said:


> That is actually one of my motos.


Hello moto


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

Foglght said:


> Hello moto


lol


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

Sorry for not being specific, yes, 1.4" long and 3" diameter voice coil.


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## Vermithrax (Aug 21, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> 13" Speaker. Underhung Design. A speaker built for sound quality in a real big way.
> .



I understood that it had been admittely classifed as a 12" sub after a lot of ppl prematurely calling it a 13w7 killer. It's more comparable in cone area to a 12w7.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

mobeious said:


> i think this sub should do good.. granted ED has a so so name some people love them some hate them. but the sub design seems flawless .. no risk of overdriving to sub and bottoming out the voice coil and underhung is just the way to go.. dual spiders... 32mm of xmax... the only down side to this sub is its shear size and weight


I totally agree !^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Until the tests come out, we'll never know


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Here are some pics of the beast. 

Rudeboy, I dunno where in MD you are but I'm in Towson. If you've got a 1ft^3 sealed box and an amp that can drive this I'd be all for meeting up with you and testing it out. Like I said I don't have a system in my car right now and won't for at least a little while longer. Its kinda killing me to see it sitting there...all massive and stuff.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh my  , that is efn beautiful !!

Do it RudeBoy.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

npdang said:


> Until the tests come out, we'll never know


When will this get tested ?


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy, I've also got an Alpine MRV-1507 waiting to power it if you dont have the ampage but have the power.


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## Turborusty (Aug 7, 2007)

An wanna tell me what "underhung" means?


To me it sounds like it means it has a small penis.....but I just dunno.




Turborusty


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Thas a subwoofer thang, do a search on the web !


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

$350 and made in the Philippines dont equal out in my mind??


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

newtitan said:


> $350 and made in the Philippines dont equal out in my mind??


It was like $285...shipped on preorder. And I really don't care where its made. The build quality feels very good. Everything is solid. There are no unsightly glue blobs...burrs...finish imperfections....anything. Companies are smart for using the cheapest factory that still turns out a quality product. As an aspiring economist, I'm all for outsourcing and anything that brings efficiency.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

SSSnake said:


> Sorry for not being specific, yes, 1.4" long and 3" diameter voice coil.


Underhung coils are shorter, because the idea is it stays entirely in the gap over its entire stroke. As opposed to an overhung coil, which is always part-way out of the gap so coil length means a lot vis a vis excursion potential.

The big underhung Auras, for instance, have a ~1" long coil. 

I have no idea if the claimed stroke for this sub is accurate, but the coil length is not really dispositive of xmax. The size of the top-plate, by contrast, is hugely important. Here, it looks huge.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Rudeboy, I've also got an Alpine MRV-1507 waiting to power it if you dont have the ampage but have the power.


Sorry, but I'm IB so it would be tough to configure any sort of test. I'll be meeting up with denim in a few weeks, maybe he has a better test bed. I'll PM him.


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## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*For power, the best I have is my Orion silver surfer. Working on getting the WT3 woofer tester here soon.*


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## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

newtitan said:


> $350 and made in the Philippines dont equal out in my mind??


But with the added value of Ben's lies it is easily a worthy purchase.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

B&K said:


> But with the added value of Ben's lies it is easily a worthy purchase.


Remember folks, you saw AVOBL here first as ED's new killer technology


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

Am I reading correctly "Made in the Philippines"


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Megalomaniac said:


> Am I reading correctly "Made in the Philippines"


Yes?


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## Hayabusa (Oct 13, 2007)

I didn't even know they had build houses down in the phillipines hehe... sweet. i guess


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Megalomaniac said:


> Am I reading correctly "Made in the Philippines"


Yes? Is that some kind of problem? The fit and finish of this sub is really quite good. My only complaint is the mirror finish on the magnet. I'd much rather have a matte finish. However, When its mounted, I'll never even see it.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Perhaps he is commenting on the possibility that the Phillipines is not very well known for their audio build houses. That's great that it looks pretty but reliability and longevity are also important considerations to me at least.


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## jlm1519 (Aug 2, 2005)

hmmm I wonder where in our country?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Those white labels look like paper laser printer labels. Are they?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

jlm1519 said:


> hmmm I wonder where in our country?



http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=554

There is a contact information on page ?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> Perhaps he is commenting on the possibility that the Phillipines is not very well known for their audio build houses. That's great that it looks pretty but reliability and longevity are also important considerations to me at least.


5yr warranty on these


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> Perhaps he is commenting on the possibility that the Phillipines is not very well known for their audio build houses. That's great that it looks pretty but reliability and longevity are also important considerations to me at least.


Maybe, but in my experience, fit and finish tend to be strongly correlated with reliability and longevity. It also has a 5 year warranty.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Those white labels look like paper laser printer labels. Are they?


Are you referring to the labels you can make from those little brother handheld dealies? They don't look like that but the certainly are the foil stickers you find on the big name stuff. Again, IMO companies should put money into the important stuff. Spending more money on a sticker makes no sense. It relays the info and is hidden as soon as its installed.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

This sub had 1,000 watts fed to it , never heard anyhting about it dying.

I was a 10" subwoofer from back in the day
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for all the compliments, guys.

As for how it sounds...

In one word: Good. 

One thing to note is that I went from two 12" vented subs to this single sealed 10". So, the output was not what I was used to. But, it is enough for me, that's for sure. I'm not a basshead by any means.

One thing I noticed is that the sub doesn't play as low as the 12's did, but that's purely a function of the enclosure. The sub is actually in less airspace than shown because I put some 2x4's inside to take up some air. This was done after talking to Ben extensively about some power handling issues. Of course, the sub lost some low end because of that, but it solved the problem. 

The sub can take lots of power thanks to it's construction and the small box used. One down side is that it is kinda inefficient because of the box size and it's positioning. Needless to say the way it fires doesn't let it take advantage of any cabin gain.

You should know I'm a picky person when it comes to sound. 

In reality it sounds great and mixes in with the rest of the front stage like no other setup I've heard outside of a competition. 

Hope that answers your question.

Gveto
End Quote:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Are you referring to the labels you can make from those little brother handheld dealies? They don't look like that but the certainly are the foil stickers you find on the big name stuff. Again, IMO companies should put money into the important stuff. Spending more money on a sticker makes no sense. It relays the info and is hidden as soon as its installed.


No, they look like paper address labels that come on a sheet - Avery 5160, etc. I agree that manufacturers need to prioritize, but that would be a little much for me to accept on anything but a prototype. Sounds like you are saying they are foil stickers that you would find on any comparable product and the metallic surface is just reflecting white, making them look like paper?


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

bryanwescoe said:


> Maybe, but in my experience, fit and finish tend to be strongly correlated with reliability and longevity. It also has a 5 year warranty.


Don't take this the wrong way as I am actually interested in this sub if it lives up to the hype but has anyone actually had a problem with the 13Av.2 and submitted the problem to eD under the warranty? Since they just started shipping I assume the answer is no. 

It could be a 100 year warranty but that is worth nothing if the manufacturer is slow to respond to emails regarding the problem, refuses to repair/replace the item under the warranty, or is slow to send out a new item if the problem is covered under the warranty. To me, a 5 year warranty is not a deciding factor unless the manufacturer has a well documented history of timely honoring the warranty. 

And let's take it a step further, what if there were problems with the quality control at the build house? Now I am left wooferless while I spend the money to ship the sub back (which is going to cost quite a bit of money) and wait for a new one. 

My hope is however that the sub lives up to everything it is supposed to do so I am not wishing ill will on this product by any stretch of the imagination. 

Back to the original topic, when is someone going to hook one of these up and give us a full review?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

A comparison was done by Gveto, too.

On two powerhouse subs...
Quote:
By now, I'm sure we've all read the Head-to-Head section on MTX's website comparing their Thunder 9500 to JL's W7. If not, the report can be read here. While MTX brings up some good arguments against JL's superwoofer (after all, the MTX is is physically bigger), I've decided to tackle the argument from a different perspective. Here I've presented FEA models of both woofers in an attempt to compare the motors' magnetic properties.

Notes: 

Both motors have been modeled with identical material properties. These properties for the 9500 are actually listed on MTX's consumer website. Thus knowing that these are accurate for the MTX model, I've used them as well for the JL model (who's actual materials are not disclosed) to compare the designs alone. The relevance of these material properies (mainly steel grades) to the performance of loudspeaker motors is debatable.

The JL motor actually features a cross-drilled pole piece for better airflow. (See the JL cross-section.) However, using the axisymetric approach that I did, it was not possilbe to directly model these. Expect less flux saturation towards the top of the pole piece as a result of less steel being present.

The 9500 features aluminum heatsinks on the top and bottom of the top plate, and as an extension to the T-yoke. While these were included in the model, it is clear that they have no magnetic effect on the design since aluminum is a non-magnetic substance. 

No modeling of the voice coils has been done (as of yet), so the analysis represents simply the magnetostatic solution when the coil has 0A current. The curves presented are plain B field plots and NOT BL curves!

All specifications listed were obtained directly from, and can be verified at, JL Audio’s consumer web site and MTX's consumer website respectively. MTX and Thunder are trademarks of Mitek Corporation. JL Audio and W7 are trademarks of JL Audio. 

Enjoy. 
Gveto

End Quote:


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## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

Just as a heads up, it said "Made in the Philippines" on my 19o box and the 2 13kv boxes.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> This sub had 1,000 watts fed to it , never heard anyhting about it dying.
> 
> I was a 10" subwoofer from back in the day
> Quote:
> ...


Come on man. What are you trying to say? You seem to be agreeable to suggestions people have been making to help you make your point, so here's mine. When you are making a post that contains a quote, first put down a few sentences that summarize what you expect the quote to support or convey. Then enclose the quote in proper quote tags like this:

```
[quote=quoted person's name]
Quoted material goes here.
[/quote]
```


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> No, they look like paper address labels that come on a sheet - Avery 5160, etc. I agree that manufacturers need to prioritize, but that would be a little much for me to accept on anything but a prototype. Sounds like you are saying they are foil stickers that you would find on any comparable product and the metallic surface is just reflecting white, making them look like paper?


No, I'm saying they AREN'T Foil stickers, which i can only imagine being expensive. 

They AREN'T address label-like either. They are just plain jane labels. I think they have a plastic coating on top. I'll check when I get home from work.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> No, I'm saying they AREN'T Foil stickers, which i can only imagine being expensive.
> 
> They AREN'T address label-like either. They are just plain jane labels. I think they have a plastic coating on top. I'll check when I get home from work.





bryanwescoe said:


> They don't look like that but the certainly are the foil stickers you find on the big name stuff. on as its installed.


Sorry, couldn't resist. The difference is only significant to the user in terms of durability but in terms of general interest, foil labels aren't going to be significantly more expensive than paper _in quantity_. The use of stickers like those suggest that these were made in a much smaller run than I would have expected - few dozen, hundred maybe?


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist. The difference is only significant to the user in terms of durability but in terms of general interest, foil labels aren't going to be significantly more expensive than paper _in quantity_. The use of stickers like those suggest that these were made in a much smaller run than I would have expected - few dozen, hundred maybe?


It may be a small fun to fulfill the preorders and test the waters for future purchases. I'd venture to say they probably made several hundred on the first run. They gave two away in a drawing and there are quite a few people ed board anticipating its arrival.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Who won the subs ?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Why not send it to me? I will put it through the paces...


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> It may be a small fun to fulfill the preorders and test the waters for future purchases. I'd venture to say they probably made several hundred on the first run. They gave two away in a drawing and there are quite a few people ed board anticipating its arrival.


That's what I would have thought too. I know I have a hard time processing how cheaply you can have even just a few things built in low labor cost countries. Some of the stuff I've seen coming out of China is astonishing.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

npdang said:


> Why not send it to me? I will put it through the paces...


I'll kick in $20 for shipping if bryanwescoe is willing.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

npdang said:


> Why not send it to me? I will put it through the paces...


If people wanna chip in for shipping I'd be down. I'm not going to spend $50 each way just to test it. Hell, thats $100 towards finishing my system!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> If people wanna chip in for shipping I'd be down. I'm not going to spend $50 each way just to test it. Hell, thats $100 towards finishing my system!


Is that what yo think we are looking at - $100 round trip? I'm in for $20. 4 more nad we are good to go. Come on folks.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

For a test  

Good luck, from what I've read here, $25.00 more and you could buy a 12" sub.


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## Sex Cells (Jul 21, 2007)

I'm not going to comment on the value of a ed warranty.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> For a test
> 
> Good luck, from what I've read here, $25.00 more and you could buy a 12" sub.


Can't put a price on knowledge.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Is that what yo think we are looking at - $100 round trip? I'm in for $20. 4 more nad we are good to go. Come on folks.


Parcel post through the post office will be about $48. UPS and Fed Ex are in the $65ish range but are faster.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Parcel post through the post office will be about $48. UPS and Fed Ex are in the $65ish range but are faster.


I'd feel safer with UPS, but it's up to you. If you have PayPal, we can use that to get you the money once enough have committed. I guess one way to you and one way to npdang.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I'd feel safer with UPS, but it's up to you. If you have PayPal, we can use that to get you the money once enough have committed. I guess one way to you and one way to npdang.


Yea, UPS is less likely to screw it up. BUT, if I buy insurance from USPS and they screw it up, I'll just collect my check lol. 

I've got paypal and am willing to ship however if I get enough money.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

bryanwescoe said:


> Yes? Is that some kind of problem? The fit and finish of this sub is really quite good. My only complaint is the mirror finish on the magnet. I'd much rather have a matte finish. However, When its mounted, I'll never even see it.


i remember reading somewhere that Ben builds inhouse


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

Rudeboy said:


> Can't put a price on knowledge.


You can sure quote the hell out of it


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

skylar112 said:


> You can sure quote the hell out of it


So tru chu  

What will the testing be comprised of ?

What will the tests show ?


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

As far as I know, npdang has a whole slew of tests over the years. He has the equipment to do all the standard benchmark tests and has personal experience listening to many subs.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Come on folks - 4 @ $20, 8 @ $10, 16 @ $5. Step on up.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

my paypal address is [email protected] Just put sub or something in the comment so I know its towards the shipping. Also, I'll gladly refund money if not enough people contribute.


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## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

I'm down for $20. I will send it now.


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## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm interested.... I'll pledge $20 -- PM me paypal info.
EDIT: oh, there it is, slow poster


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## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

Payment sent man. Hope we can get enough. I would love to see the results.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Just hit you with $25.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks

Don $25 

and

Alex $20


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm ashamed to say I still haven't shipped the Klippel back. I haven't used it since that day, but I've been really busy and haven't had time to box it and buy all the packaging for it. Maybe Jeff wouldn't mind one last farewell test.

Aside from that, I will do the standard 10 tone distortion test, and impedance measurements. I'll also give it a listen for mechanical noise.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks

Dan $20


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

npdang said:


> I'm ashamed to say I still haven't shipped the Klippel back. I haven't used it since that day, but I've been really busy and haven't had time to box it and buy all the packaging for it. Maybe Jeff wouldn't mind one last farewell test.
> 
> Aside from that, I will do the standard 10 tone distortion test, and impedance measurements. I'll also give it a listen for mechanical noise.


Maybe we should try to raise enough to ship the sub both ways and pay for what you need to ship the Klippel back. Kill multiple birds and earn the right to get a full report?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

npdang said:


> I'm ashamed to say I still haven't shipped the Klippel back. I haven't used it since that day, but I've been really busy and haven't had time to box it and buy all the packaging for it. Maybe Jeff wouldn't mind one last farewell test.
> 
> Aside from that, I will do the standard 10 tone distortion test, and impedance measurements. I'll also give it a listen for mechanical noise.


Thanks for heads up !


----------



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

ill send some now. ill chip in 10 since my paypal funds are running low and i would like to see some tests on this beast


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

ok payment sent


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm in for $30.00


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

I'm in for $20 since it will keep me from having to deal with shippin mine in for testing


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

This is why I love this forum! Looks like we are almost there. I'd suggest that bryanwescoe make contact with npdang and work out the details. He may want to pay to ship the sub out and then forward the balance to cover return shipping and hopefully the packing and return of the Klippel equipment. Since we have benefited from it so much, it would be very nice if we could all make sure it gets to where it needs to go with a note expressing our thanks.

Can't wait to hear the results of the tests. Great job everyone.


----------



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

if everyone sent who said they were going to, we're up to $125


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Are the test results in yet


----------



## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*I need to hype up our next driver to this level so people would pay money for someone else to test another persons driver.*


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Or better yet, you could just send me one directly


----------



## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

npdang said:


> Or better yet, you could just send me one directly


*We sent out a few Icon's a while ago. We have more stuff coming but I will not say anything in this thread.*


----------



## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

denim said:


> *We sent out a few Icon's a while ago. We have more stuff coming but I will not say anything in this thread.*


That's probably a solid idea, Denim. I'm sure as hell you don't want anyone using SSA and eD in the same thread. Oops, just happened


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks 

Kevin $30

Ryan $13

Jason $20

This should cover the cost of the woofer & insurance. I might build a crate for it if I'm feeling adventurous. The box is pretty damn beat up already. 

npdang, how much do you think shipping the Klippel equipment will cost? I think if someone else chips in we'll have it all covered.


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Also, npdang, what do you have to power it?


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

My zip is 92708. No clue on the weight of that woofer. I have a QSC rmx1450... should do 1400w @ 4ohm mono.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

npdang said:


> Or better yet, you could just send me one directly


Exactly - if you have confidence in your product, dropping a few on respected reviewers could go a long way. I'm not suggesting that ED doesn't have confidence in this thing - I don't know. More likely too paranoid to even think of doing such a thing.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Some tidbits, I collected...

As of 10/05/07

13Av.2 Specs 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I figured why beat around the bush anymore. It's in IA and we're giving demo's.

Qts : .45
Qes : .48
Qms : 7.48
Vas : 55.79
MMS : 257.05
Le : 2.18
BL : 14.81
SPL : 83.50
Re : 2.81
FS : 23.29
Xmax : 32.5MM (physical. 1.4" long coil)
1200w RMS all day. And it uses it!

13" Speaker. Underhung Design. A speaker built for sound quality in a real big way.

Something like 10" deep. 11" from top to bottom (surround to back of motor).

black chrome. New motor cooling techniques. New coil design. New treatments for power handling.

Online selling cost end cost of around 450ish. Same price we've always expressed. Yes it's more than the old 12A but it's also so much more in terms of parts and design...

It's the best of everything we can buy in terms of parts. SQ is / was / has always been the primary concern. Not everyone will love it but those who liked the 12A are going to specifically enjoy....

1. 2-3dB output over the 12A depending on frequency in the same box.
2. 1.5cF sealed box. 
3. 2.0cF Vented box.
4. True 13" design
5. About ~10" deep. Yes it's large.
6. Huge mechanical clearance improvement over 12A. Big issue with the 12A was at 25.4MM it basically was done. At xmax it had no room to breathe. Here we have almost 5" of p2p clearance. Suspension capability is into the 50+MM one way range quite easily.
7. Less moving mass / higher end efficiency over 12A. 
8. 1200w true RMS design. Slap a NINe.1 on it and enjoy 
9. Increased Low Frequency Extension. it just has the excursion to support it.

If you liked the 12A. Your going to flip **** if you can fit it. If you hated the 12A. Chances are you'll hate this too. Love it or hate it just the same It's a lot bigger, a lot better, a lot more improved and 3 years in the making. See above for 13Av.2 specs. If you have questions. Pls ask.

It also has quite a few things like new spiders, new cone, new motor from the group up, new everything. This is one big reason we are urging as many people to come in and see it just to see how unique it is. It's without a doubt just as unique as the original 12A was when it released, and moreso in a lot of ways.

Quote:
what is the size of the voice coil again 


3" Voice Coil.

Quote:
how much is this thing going to tip the scales at? 40 pounds or so? maybe even 50? 


I'll wait to release exact numbers. It's the heaviest production sub we've ever done. Putting that into perspective it's smart to plan for 40+lbs.

Please consider the basket alone weighs on the 13Av.2 weighs what the 11Kv.2 does.

It's quite a bit heavier on the bottom end. The 13Av.2 will absolutely decimate all at 20-30hz. It's the only speaker that does what a 19Ov.2 does on the bottom end that isn't a 19Ov.2 

In terms of extended low frequency response it's also the only speaker that does what it does in that size box. Basically sounds virtually identical to a old 12A. Just a lot louder with a lot more linearity.

There isn't a speaker in the world that's underhung that offers extreme bottomless clearances like this with such a linear motor design at any price that I know of. How that translates to how it sounds. Like a 12A. A lot louder with more low frequency extension.

Spiders are linear.

13Av.2 = Underhung

13Av.2 = 3" voice coil

13Av.2 = Dual 9.2" Spiders

The 13Av.2 design (as it's called before production right now) is where it will start. A true 13" subwoofer design that's 100% eD. Our parts. Our everything. $450 USD is the price projected for this product.

The outside dimensions of my box are 18" tall x 19" wide x 15" deep at the bottom of the wedge and 12" deep at the top of the wedge. The wedge is about 10 degrees.

When I plugged those numbers into the eD box builder, it came back with 1.75 cf, but the sub is flush mounted so the baffle is double-walled and there is also internal bracing so after that and the sub displacement, it is very close to 1.5 cf.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

ass Metropolis Drop the Bass Now [This thing starts low and keeps going - I've used it to bottom out many subs and especially "full range" speakers. It has good sustained notes in the mid 20's...good for checking the woofers suspensions and for port noise AND rattling anything loose on any shelf in the house]
Bass Hit Woofer Cooker [The first 10 seconds rides the bass note all the way down the scale...it WILL show you if you have anything loose! Crank it and listen for rattles. Sustained notes with punchy bursts, good for checking power capabilities of the amp in the sub. About 1:28 its starts varying notes...watch the driver for accuracy and control]
Bass Connection Bass Consciousness [the first few second sound like they might hurt (when played LOUD). Good groove combined with tight movement and low end breath. Transitions should be quick and sharp and not smeared]
Bass Hit Bass Revolution [a low end breath with some scale riding that can be quite dramatic when its clear.]

The 4 Bass selections above are all from Neurodisc Records. They may be a bit wierd, but they're a lot more fun than just playing test tones!!!

Hi Resolution:
James Taylor October Road SACD [I was surprised that the SACD version had so much more and cleaner bass. Its quite a treat - if you like JT]


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

I think the only thing that has really changed spec wise during prototyping is that xmax was reduced to (linear) 28.75mm.


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

npdang said:


> Or better yet, you could just send me one directly


I love the overall appearance of the ICON...cant wait to see this happen.


----------



## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

Keep this thread alive!

Any more donations from the DIYMA @ large?


----------



## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

Any word on this???

Status perhaps?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

bryanwescoe said:


> my paypal address is [email protected] Just put sub or something in the comment so I know its towards the shipping. Also, I'll gladly refund money if not enough people contribute.


Please contribute !


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Arc said:


> Any word on this???
> 
> Status perhaps?


Guess we should have warned bryanwescoe about the urgency of this mission and the inevitable impatience that would follow - WE WANT RESULTS!


----------



## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Guess we should have warned bryanwescoe about the urgency of this mission and the inevitable impatience that would follow - WE WANT RESULTS!


Eggzakwy.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Please chip in on this one !!

Send any amount to Bryan Wescoe ,[ $1.00 up to $$.$$ ]. 

Thank You all !!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Bryan have you got enough to ship the 13av2 to NPDang ?


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Arc said:


> Any word on this???
> 
> Status perhaps?


Sorry for letting you all down, its been a REALLY rough week for me. My GF of 1.5 years just broke up with me. 

But, any ideas on shipping this beast? the box it came in is kind of beat up. I was thinking of duct taping the holes, putting the sub in a trash bag and filling box with that expanding insulation foam. Anyone see any problems with this? I was going to build a crate but I don't really have any spare wood hanging out.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Bryan, sorry to hear about the breakup  

The sub is close to 60 pounds.

Triple wall cardboard, maybe or just crate it [ for peace of mind  ].


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Bryan have you got enough to ship the 13av2 to NPDang ?


I've received $122 after fees. Thats enough to cover slow shipping with insurance. 3 day is over 2x as much so I think its slow shipping


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> I've received $122 after fees. Thats enough to cover slow shipping with insurance. 3 day is over 2x as much so I think its slow shipping


Sorry for the GF troubles. You want packaging that is strong enough to ship to Cali and back again. Sucks that the box it came in was designed for one way shipping only. I'm in Owings Mills, so I may be able to help you put something together. Before we get any crazier, have you tested this thing to make sure it isn't DOA?


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Sorry for the GF troubles. You want packaging that is strong enough to ship to Cali and back again. Sucks that the box it came in was designed for one way shipping only. I'm in Owings Mills, so I may be able to help you put something together. Before we get any crazier, have you tested this thing to make sure it isn't DOA?


Nope, like I said, I've got no real way to test this. What are you up to tomorrow. Mind if I swing by? I'm in Towson.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Mowry,

Any thing you'd care to add about this sub ?


----------



## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

Monday afternoon bump!


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I built the crate. Bryan and I are getting together tomorrow afternoon to pack it up.


----------



## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

Good work you guys.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I built the crate. Bryan and I are getting together tomorrow afternoon to pack it up.


Sweet Don !  

Are you gonna give it a quick test before you pack it up ?


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> Sweet Don !
> 
> Are you gonna give it a quick test before you pack it up ?


I don't have anything that will power that sub the way it apparently wants to be driven - 1200-1500 watts. Not sure if it's a d2 or d4, but all I have is a single Minilith. Maybe just hook it up to my home stereo to make sure it at least moves a little bit so we're not shipping a paper weight to Cali.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Yeah even your minilith in free air will let you know .


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

it shouldn't take much to get thing rocking free air. Some on icix is running one in ahuge ported box off of about 400 watts and has been pretty impressed with it so far.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> Yeah even your minilith in free air will let you know .


Good point. Either in the car or in the house, we'll give it a light workout.


----------



## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Why no pics?


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

mvw2 said:


> Why no pics?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=349363&postcount=28

Don, I can bring my Alpine MRV-1507 along. Its the combo i was planning on running. Its a dual 2 ohm sub. I was planning on running the amp 2 channel in mono 2 x 450 @ 2ohm. This amp is notoriously underrated and is class AB as well. If you've got the power, we can get it hooked up.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

The face is nothing to talk about, but that is one fine ass !


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=349363&postcount=28
> 
> Don, I can bring my Alpine MRV-1507 along. Its the combo i was planning on running. Its a dual 2 ohm sub. I was planning on running the amp 2 channel in mono 2 x 450 @ 2ohm. This amp is notoriously underrated and is class AB as well. If you've got the power, we can get it hooked up.


Don't really have a way to swap amps without setting an incomplete install back a few more steps. I'll go out and ponder the problem this morning.


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> The face is nothing to talk about, but that is one fine ass !


i agree, to be honest i'm not a fan of the cosmetics of the cone design, but mine will be inverted and it does have a mean looking motor.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

JayBee said:


> i agree, to be honest i'm not a fan of the cosmetics of the cone design, but mine will be inverted and it does have a mean looking motor.


The last two installs I worked on,[ both ED subs ],were inverted  

1] function = less heat , smaller physical size of enclosure .


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Don't really have a way to swap amps without setting an incomplete install back a few more steps. I'll go out and ponder the problem this morning.


Alright, just let me know what you figure out.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

In this instance, without prepping it for an install [ box ,amp ,etc.., ].

Just set it in the vehicle close enough to power it off the minilith, run it free air ,[ not crank on it  ], pack it and ship it !

NPDang will rail on it !!


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> In this instance, without prepping it for an install [ box ,amp ,etc.., ].
> 
> Just set it in the vehicle close enough to power it off the minilith, run it free air ,[ not crank on it  ], pack it and ship it !
> 
> NPDang will rail on it !!


Since it's raining and I don't have a garage, I think it will just get a channel from my home theater receiver. Just checking to make sure it isn't grossly defective.


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Since it's raining and I don't have a garage, I think it will just get a channel from my home theater receiver. Just checking to make sure it isn't grossly defective.


Will your HT amp power it? I've got a 350w solid state bass amplifier head that will output at 4ohm and run off AC. If you can come up with a 1/4" jack to pigtail so we could hook it up, that would probably work. Thats the only non integrated AC amplifier I have access to.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Will your HT amp power it? I've got a 350w solid state bass amplifier head that will output at 4ohm and run off AC. If you can come up with a 1/4" jack to pigtail so we could hook it up, that would probably work. Thats the only non integrated AC amplifier I have access to.


I'd only expect it to jiggle it a little bit. What would you use as a signal for the amp head?


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Rain has stopped. All wired up to give it a go in the car.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Rain has stopped. All wired up to give it a go in the car.


Got an assignment I forgot about due before 5. I'll be over there ASAP.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Got an assignment I forgot about due before 5. I'll be over there ASAP.


I've got to be out of here by 5:50. Hope we can get this done. Shouldn't take more than 1/2 hour.


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

get together folks...people are waiting here


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

JayBee said:


> get together folks...people are waiting here


Thanks for your patience  Bryan just left here with the sub all crated up. We gave it the full output of the Minilith @ 1ohm and noticed NO visible excursion. You had to touch the cone to feel it vibrating. Oh well. We concluded it wasn't DOA.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Ahahahaha, were you playing 1khz sine waves?

Just curious... how far can I go thermal testing this thing


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

npdang said:


> Ahahahaha, were you playing 1khz sine waves?
> 
> Just curious... how far can I go thermal testing this thing


You shouldn't be asking questions like that until AFTER Bryan has taken it to the PO


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

It'll be on its merry little way tomorrow guys. Cant wait to see results! Much thanks to Don for the amazing box, heres to hoping it survives the 5,000+ mile round trip  Thanks to everyone else for chipping in on shipping!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Thanks for your patience  Bryan just left here with the sub all crated up. We gave it the full output of the Minilith @ 1ohm and noticed NO visible excursion. You had to touch the cone to feel it vibrating. Oh well. We concluded it wasn't DOA.


 

Wow


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Something doesn't sound right


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

a$$hole said:


> Something doesn't sound right


Maybe it is just stiff.....it is new you know.


----------



## rimshot (May 17, 2005)

I agree, anything past 100 watts should get ANY sub visibly moving in free air. The minilith is like 600 watts at 1 ohm right? Thats unusual to say the least


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

I may well have screwed things up when I pulled the amp out to wire it to test the sub. It was raining, I was trying to keep things dry. Who knows? I'll check it when it gets light out this morning.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I was looking at a box on ICIX that is huge with a 13av2 in it off 400 watts,

In free air, that baby should a been all over the place, off of 600 watts


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

that mass on the minilith with no resistance from a box  
excerpt]
. Here we have almost 5" of p2p clearance. Suspension capability is into the 50+MM one way range quite easily.
7. Less moving mass / higher end efficiency over 12A. 

The sub should have needed to be held, so it didn't fall is all.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Here's a possibility - I had the the speaker wire connected to the amp in th trunk, running into the back seat. We threw the sub in the back seat and got in on opposite sides so that we could each wire one of the voice coils. I said: "solid blue is positive", but I didn't say: "I'm going positive to red". We'll have to see if Bryan remembers what he did, but it is at least possible that we wired them out of phase. Haste makes waste.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Rudeboy,

Bingo , you must have, in order for it to act the way it did


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Awesome first test !!!

Kinda like two trucks connected together, til one pulls the other one


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

We'll see if Bryan remembers what he did. Definitely a lesson there. We were running late with only about 1/2 hour to spare. I built the box so that the speaker gets bolted to an inset shelf with a cutout. We still needed to drill the shelf, bolt it in and then screw the shelf into the box. Like I said, haste makes waste.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

here is the box thread I mentioned, guy said it was close to Xmax off of 400 watts in "his box" [ size does effect handling power ]. 

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49783


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Hmm, well Don, as I remember, I put solid blue on red. I could have fudged it though, dunno. IIRC, you said it was 600watts at 1ohm? This means 300x2 @ 1 ohm? Since its a dual 2 ohm sub, wasn't each coil only getting about 150 watts at 2 ohms? I'm not sure of the exact specs on your amp.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Hmm, well Don, as I remember, I put solid blue on red. I could have fudged it though, dunno. IIRC, you said it was 600watts at 1ohm? This means 300x2 @ 1 ohm? Since its a dual 2 ohm sub, wasn't each coil only getting about 150 watts at 2 ohms? I'm not sure of the exact specs on your amp.


I may have too. Wish we had another crack at it. If it hadn't been raining, we could have left it outside the car which would have been a little easier. We're both a little big for the back seat of a Civic and both at once wasn't ideal


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

When i get home i'll toss mine in the car. The nine.1 @ 4ohms should make about 400watts, so we'll see what it does @ 4ohms and @ 1ohm (1200 watts). I'll see if i can get some pics.


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Does my math sound right on those power figures? Also remember that your front stage was getting pretty damn loud. Maybe the gains on your amp weren't set high enough or...blah blah, there are so many variables we didn't mess with because of time/space/rain issues. I'm not too worried about it.


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Alright, went to the post office today and this beast appears to weigh more than 70lbs ready to ship. I cant imagine the box weighing 11+lbs, so the specs on the sub must be incorrect (published 59lbs). Long story short, post office wont ship it. It looks like its going to be $75-$80 to ship it one way with FedEx. Anyone else willing to chip in some? I currently have $120.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Alright, went to the post office today and this beast appears to weigh more than 70lbs ready to ship. I cant imagine the box weighing 11+lbs, so the specs on the sub must be incorrect (published 59lbs). Long story short, post office wont ship it. It looks like its going to be $75-$80 to ship it one way with FedEx. Anyone else willing to chip in some? I currently have $120.


Doesn't surprise me at all - 15X16X16 box made of 5/16 plywood with two 16X16 1/2" plywood inserts and 1" bracing. 15 lbs wouldn't shock me. I kept it as light as I could, but when you start building crates, the weight can add up. 

$40-$50 to go folks. Hate to give up now. A few $10 contributions and the deed is done.


----------



## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

$20 sent.


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Here's a possibility - I had the the speaker wire connected to the amp in th trunk, running into the back seat. We threw the sub in the back seat and got in on opposite sides so that we could each wire one of the voice coils. I said: "solid blue is positive", but I didn't say: "I'm going positive to red". We'll have to see if Bryan remembers what he did, but it is at least possible that we wired them out of phase. Haste makes waste.


You might have had wired correctly, i was able run it @1Ohm and 1000 watts, i'm guessing, running free air was not able to come near pushing it to xmax. it may have been moving 1.5 inches p2p, but it didn't sweat that power at all. As stated in another post, maybe it needs some break in time.


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

JayBee said:


> You might have had wired correctly, i was able run it @1Ohm and 1000 watts, i'm guessing, running free air was not able to come near pushing it to xmax. it may have been moving 1.5 inches p2p, but it didn't sweat that power at all. As stated in another post, maybe it needs some break in time.


Yea, I think some real power is what it needs. The surround is REALLY stiff right now.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

JayBee said:


> maybe it needs some break in time.


I'm thinking npdang will handle that  j/k Bryan. He'll treat it right


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

mvw2 said:


> $20 sent.


Thank you very much.

Anyone else down for $5 or $10. We're almost there.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Step on up folks. Bryan is a college student so he's volunteering a sub he probably had to sell blood to finance. A few more bucks and we'll know what this thing can do.


----------



## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Where do i send money to, I'll never have a chance to hear one of these since I'm in Australia but I'll chip in $10 to help out.


----------



## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ok I found the paypal address and just sent through $15.


----------



## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

how much u still need for shipping to npdang?


----------



## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

I think we're good on shipping. I'll get it to the FedEx store tomorrow. Looks like it will have 4 days in transit.


----------



## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Maybe this will get him motivated to get my, well vactor's now, PRS sub tested too. Now if someone can send him a SSA Icon, we'd have a nice 3-way going.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Oh I have your PRS results... I will e-mail to you this weekend


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuZ1nvagxT8


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Alrighty guys, its in the FedEx! Should be there 'round Tuesday. I'm gonna PM npdang the tracking number.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

If you would, send me the tracking number. I hear the Fed Ex has that in transit re-routing feature up and working...


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Haha. nice try!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Alrighty guys, its in the FedEx! Should be there 'round Tuesday. I'm gonna PM npdang the tracking number.


Very nice, so npdang is just 8 wood screws a dead lift and 10 bolts away from holding this thing in his hands


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Very nice, so npdang is just 8 wood screws a dead lift and 10 bolts away from holding this thing in his hands


Dont forget the pound or so of packing tape!


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> Very nice, so npdang is just 8 wood screws a dead lift and 10 bolts away from holding this thing in his hands


dead lift is right, that damn thing is heavy enough as it is without dealing with a shipping crate as well.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

NP , better get some help with this one when it arrives


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Hmmmm, seems that its stuck in PA. Its been there since Saturday. Maybe they lost the hand truck (crane)? Perhaps I should go up there and speed the process along.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> Hmmmm, seems that its stuck in PA. Its been there since Saturday. Maybe they lost the hand truck (crane)? Perhaps I should go up there and speed the process along.


I think that's just FedEx's tracking system. In my experience it is vastly inferior to UPS's. Tracking locations reported are generally way behind reality. Doesn't mean it isn't in PA, but it could just as easily be on npdang's front porch.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

hah well what good is it if its not up to date! I can't wait to see some numbers/vid clips/whatever.


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

So, Fed Ex has ****ed up and charged my debit card 2x for the shipment. They won't talk to me about refunding the money until the package arrives and five days pass for it to enter their system. 

Lesson learned: Pay Fed Ex cash.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

bryanwescoe said:


> So, Fed Ex has ****ed up and charged my debit card 2x for the shipment. They won't talk to me about refunding the money until the package arrives and five days pass for it to enter their system.
> 
> Lesson learned: Pay Fed Ex cash.


They won't take cash, only checks  Isn't today a potential delivery day?


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## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

They'll give it back, don't sweat it.

They misrouted a bag (to Norcal) to Florida. I ended up not having to pay for that box at all.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

all this trouble hehe, i know someone in socal with a coupla of them sitting around that you could test 

be interested in seeing hte results hehe i have never seen or heard one


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

Should be there today. Let us know if it survived npdang. 

And jeeze, you could have spoken up  Its ok though, I won't be using it for a while anyway.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Yep, *a day late and a dollar short* comes to mind. I'll definitely be curious to know how it made out - sort of feels like a child I've sent off to college


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

That's uhm... the craziest looking packaging I've ever seen. The Fedex guy was not happy, literally chucked it on my lawn and drove off haha. So anyways... it's under test right now and I'll be posting the results shortly.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Sweet !! Nguyen


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

npdang said:


> That's uhm... the craziest looking packaging I've ever seen. The Fedex guy was not happy, literally chucked it on my lawn and drove off haha. So anyways... it's under test right now and I'll be posting the results shortly.


how much fun was it to move?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Was no fun. Some sick bastard tied little rope handles to the baffle but they were super short... try pulling a 70lb sub out with 2 little 4" ropes


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

HAHA, I was quite impressed with the monster of a crate Don concocted for this undertaking. Glad to see it made it in 1 piece. Cant wait to see some results/impressions! Do you have an ETA on results Nguyen?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

bryanwescoe said:


> Here are some pics of the beast.
> 
> Rudeboy, I dunno where in MD you are but I'm in Towson. If you've got a 1ft^3 sealed box and an amp that can drive this I'd be all for meeting up with you and testing it out. Like I said I don't have a system in my car right now and won't for at least a little while longer. Its kinda killing me to see it sitting there...all massive and stuff.


She sure looks the part


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

ETA: 30 mins...

Yeah Don built one incredible box. I was most impressed.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

npdang said:


> That's uhm... the craziest looking packaging I've ever seen. The Fedex guy was not happy, literally chucked it on my lawn and drove off haha. So anyways... it's under test right now and I'll be posting the results shortly.


Handles probably would have been nice, but if your lawn had been flooded, the crate would have been floating there when you got home and the sub would have been fine 



npdang said:


> Was no fun. Some sick bastard tied little rope handles to the baffle but they were super short... try pulling a 70lb sub out with 2 little 4" ropes


He he. Glad it got there.


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## typericey (May 13, 2006)

So this sub is made in my country eh? No I'm not proud, but what I'm gonna do is research on and look for the factory here. I might just get myself a piece at factory price, haha!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> It's getting close to when it will be available , underhung designs are for Sound Quality !
> 
> edit]
> As of 10/05/07
> ...


The testing reveals that it does what it was designed to do !

Basically, for less money then ED originally thought, you have a driver that will get "Low-n-Loud" and sound great  [ goes for about $100.00 less than projected ].


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

He must have fallen asleep on us last night


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

welllllll damn. Thanks.


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