# Fun with a $900 car: My 96 Saturn SL1 Old School Build



## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Straight out, let's get your first question out of the way: "Kris, why the hell did you buy a beat down, neglected, forlorn, slow, no options, fit-for-your-red-headed-stepchild 1996 Saturn SL1 with 145,XXX hard miles on the clock?

Answer; I felt bad for this car. It was sitting at the dealership, sadly parked in the back row headed on a one way trip to the scrap yard. I figured, hey if it runs good, I'll just drive it back and forth to work to save some greenbacks from heading overseas in the form of foreign oil imports... In it's first life, it was a commuter car for some girl who went to the local commuinty college. Some (read: most) of her **** was still in the glove box/floorboard/trunk along with the subsequent second driver's, her brother, who gave the little SL an unmercilous ass kicking.. Somewhere along the line the parents stepped in and spent $2k at the local Saturn stealer-ship for many new external and internal engine parts, along with a clutch swap. Two tall kitchen bags and one small Shop-Vac bag later, SOME of the evidence of the previous driver-cum-ass kickers was removed from her.

Enter: Slippery slope...

I had a similar feeling about a certain 1994 Civic CX hatch I "rescued" from the local auto recycler. First thought was "Kris, don't dive into the money pit"... That restraint didn't last a New York minute my friends... Somewhere along the line I figured it would be kinda fun to do all the things I never wanted to do to my other nicer cars to this car. Why not? It's a $900 car, what fun! Then came the idea that installing a silly stereo system of all old school **** would be hella fun. What do you know, I just happen to have a few white old school amps in stock!   

So here's the deal: Except for this first round of front stage MB Quarts that are brand spanking new 2008 issue, this ***** is all 1996 all the time! Vintage SQ oriented speakers are being hunted, but until then the modern Quarts will do the trick. Everything else is OLD SCHOOL GOODNESS!!!!!!

Much of the install will utilize materials, styles, techniques and finishes that were common of "competition" cars of the era. The other unique element to this vehicle and build will be the "test bed". In the car, every possible combination of control cables have been ran, AiNet, CeNet, C-Net, Sony Unilink, Pioneer link and yes even old school PPI DIN cables are already ran from front to back. Also, 4 channels of speaker wire are down each side and 8 channels of tasty RCA's are tucked in behind the radio binnacle. That's right, I can plug anything from a 7909 to a DRZ9255 into this bastard and have it back up and running within minutes... What about amps, you say? Modular amp rack with a generic panel for testing other amps will be built so that they can be switched easily and cheaply. Try that **** in your install! My gift to DIYMA, better reviews in a real world enviroment. Lofty goals for a ****box, eh? 

Many of my pics are stuck with my other digi cam at the shop, so here is a teaser pic of what I started with:










There are gutters in East St. Louis that are cleaner than the inside of the SL! It's all good now though.. 

Alot of work has already been done, so when the pics are up tomorrow I'll edit this post with text and pics of round one.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

I thought about 8 RCAs but decided on 12 because you never know whats going back UP the audio chain in the form of video or AUX inputs.

DRZ nothing, what about a 2DIN 5.1 unit with secondary monitor feeds, a game system in the back, and a video ipod thrown in? 8 isnt gonna cut it!


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Thats an EXCELLENT idea.

Hopefully you'll actually be able to use it to commute....I have a feeling you won't.


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Cool!!! i lorv the idea of old school stuff. This is one install I wan't to chuckle and awe along with!
Lets see... what am I dreaming up.
... JL 10W3 sub
... MTX Black Gold "splits".
... your PPi amps
... Audiocontrol EQT's & line driver
... some ply
... some dacron
... some self tappers
 i like it already!


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## KAP (Mar 18, 2007)

Did you get my e-mail about the kicker C-12.


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## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

Well I have to agree with your reasoning. 

It's a lot easier having fun with a install when the car doesn't cost much to begin with. I for one do not have the experience or balls to do much with a NICE car.

Good Luck and Have Fun!


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> I thought about 8 RCAs but decided on 12 because you never know whats going back UP the audio chain in the form of video or AUX inputs.
> 
> DRZ nothing, what about a 2DIN 5.1 unit with secondary monitor feeds, a game system in the back, and a video ipod thrown in? 8 isnt gonna cut it!


5.1?   There is going to be barely enough room in this car for the plans I have, much less an X-Box or something of the like.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

3 words, Big Sub Box. 

Really efficient and vented, just big, digs low, old black golds, etc, something from back in the day when a 12 needed 2 CuFt and a 10 needed 1-1.5 and got insanely loud, sounded great, and needed little power to do it.


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Hey man, thats a good car. I have a 96 saturn also, mines loaded with leather and everthing and quite a bit cleaner. You can see my engine in my avatar,yep turbo. When your ready to add some performance parts come on over to Sixthsphere.com........haha i know.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Settle Down!
Put your pecker back in your pants!!!

 



chad said:


> 3 words, Big Sub Box.
> 
> Really efficient and vented, just big, digs low, old black golds, etc, something from back in the day when a 12 needed 2 CuFt and a 10 needed 1-1.5 and got insanely loud, sounded great, and needed little power to do it.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm convinced any car can be fun as long as it has a stick-shift. Good luck with the install. I wish I had the space for another car...if I did, I'd prolly do something similar...but with a 1st gen Miata


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Chad- I thought about a nasty huge box with a C12a that I have talked to KAP about, but the damn trunk is small and that won't leave much room for the amp rack/test bed...

I have some more before pics of the rugged interior:

























Crusty!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Kris....yhpm


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Luckily, the floor was very clean underneath the carpet, so a quick vacuum and wipedown with some glass cleaner made way for the RAAMmat. Layer one made a huge difference, but more was needed so I covered the whole floor with two layers followed by Ensolite. Subsequent test drives before and after made light of the HUGE difference in ambient road noise.





































Also, you can see the wiring adventure running down either side of the center tunnel and the two inner side rockers. 4 channels of speaker level down each side and 8 line level channels down the center tunnel. 5 types of DIN type command cables are on the passenger side of the center tunnel. Also ran, but not in the pictures were 12+/Ground/Remote for potential accessories terminated with Molex connectors located under each fron seat. Enough length was left so that the underseat accessory could be sat on your lap for tuning and the like. Also, cheaper set of RCA's were added later running front to back in case iPod or sat radio tests were needed that would reqiure line level. Thinner two conductor was laid from the console area to splice into the factory illumination. Some LED's will be installed into the glove box and console.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I wish I had a car to gut to do an install in and not have to worry about having to drive it in the near future :blush:

Is this your salvation to escape from the sound of crying babies?


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

chad said:


> I wish I had a car to gut to do an install in and not have to worry about having to drive it in the near future :blush:
> 
> Is this your salvation to escape from the sound of crying babies?


You're on the right track. Mostly I couldn't justify having my gear collection without something from that era to put them in. The fun in it is lost if they can't be enjoyed by listening to them in their designated enviroment: A car.

The SL isn't my dream old school cruiser, but it will do until I can locate a proper white 1998 Z24, 5-speed. Just like the one I had in college that a friend was kind enough to total after I sold it to him... When that car is found, I will likely donate the refurbished SL to a needy someone. 

Other nice thing is that I have been driving the car all week, fully reassembled, and the MPG's are bordering on spectacular! I average 30 miles per day and as of this morning it still has just over 3/4 tank according to the gauge.. I can't wait to fill up after work and see what the actual figure is.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

The one major gripe I had about this car is the lack of any sort of enjoyment from rowing through the gears. Aftermarket short shifters are an expensive custom-milled affair and this is a project on the cheap. My Dremel was starting to look somewhat bored in his case so.... We had some fun with the shift lever! 

Before: THUMBS DOWN to the long throws..









Box to catch the shavings:









Titanium shift knob I had leftover from my Civic hatch days..









The shift action is actually not too shabby now. Effort is a bit higher but the gates seem much more definitive and reverse isn't lost anymore. Cost: Nada. Beautiful!!


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

O'man this looks all to familiar.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

lets rice it out?


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

That car should roughly last forever, if you take care of it. Check the oil level fairly frequently - some of those old Saturns like to drink oil through busted headgaskets. Alternators also like to go in this vintage, so keep an eye out for that as well. 

I was glad to see the sound deadener, as a car that weighs about 2300 pounds, does not leave much noise on the outside. Where did you run the power wire?


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

dallasneon said:


> O'man this looks all to familiar.


I bet it does! If this thing slides far enough down the "slippery slope", it might just land a DOHC swap... I hear it's friggin easy. I'm no stranger to motor swaps, both my Civics had Integra power! The EG was rockin a B18C5.. I miss Gumby.. 



Megalomaniac said:


> lets rice it out?


A little rice never hurt anybody! 



speakerboy said:


> That car should roughly last forever, if you take care of it. Check the oil level fairly frequently - some of those old Saturns like to drink oil through busted headgaskets. Alternators also like to go in this vintage, so keep an eye out for that as well.
> 
> I was glad to see the sound deadener, as a car that weighs about 2300 pounds, does not leave much noise on the outside. Where did you run the power wire?


In the last vertical deadner picture, you can see it running up the left side of the firewall. Lovely section of old school Phoenix Gold Zero Point 4 ga..  

I heard that about the oil and alternator. I'm thinking that an upgraded alternator may be a wise idea..


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

It's not so much the alternator crapping out by itself - it's the heat from the motor getting to it. Things are pretty cramped together in there, and the alternator is mounted in a pretty bad spot for heat.


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

coffee_junkee said:


> In the last vertical deadner picture, you can see it running up the left side of the firewall. Lovely section of old school Phoenix Gold Zero Point 4 ga..


So the power wire runs right next to the speaker wire. Maybe I missed it, but doesn't this cause noise? I thought I remember reading something on this forum about that being untrue, but I can't remember.

Age>me.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

mf has the same car but the SL2. HORRIBLE for sound. how do you plan on mounting/aiming your front components?


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

speakerboy said:


> Check the oil level fairly frequently - some of those old Saturns like to drink oil through busted headgaskets.


Headgaskets? That's news to me. It's the valve seals. Just feed it a quart every 3k and yer good 

Mmmm old manual trans Saturn... That's what I was looking for, but coupe 

Rip out the dask and throw some speakers up there 

-aaron


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

ArcL100 said:


> Headgaskets? That's news to me. It's the valve seals. Just feed it a quart every 3k and yer good
> 
> -aaron


I like to call that good upper cylinder lubrication..... Chevy small blocks did the same damn thing. Puff of smoke at startup? Baaahhh, it's fine.


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## iceman_ca (Aug 7, 2005)

Wait til you get to deading the doors, I am doing my daughters 96' SL1 as we speak, the doors vibrate like hell, alot of work needed.


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

Headgaskets like to go in these cars too, as they run a little hot.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

bobditts said:


> mf has the same car but the SL2. HORRIBLE for sound. how do you plan on mounting/aiming your front components?


One man's horrible is another man's challenge..  I don't know what kind of SL you looked at, but mine has positively perfect kicks: Asymmetrical, no hood release, easy access and wide flat floorboards!



ArcL100 said:


> Headgaskets? That's news to me. It's the valve seals. Just feed it a quart every 3k and yer good
> 
> Mmmm old manual trans Saturn... That's what I was looking for, but coupe
> 
> ...


The dash comes out this weekend for deading duty! Some stage height tweeters may come to play there. Good thinking!



chad said:


> I like to call that good upper cylinder lubrication..... Chevy small blocks did the same damn thing. Puff of smoke at startup? Baaahhh, it's fine.


Oddly enough, no smoke.... Yet!



iceman_ca said:


> Wait til you get to deading the doors, I am doing my daughters 96' SL1 as we speak, the doors vibrate like hell, alot of work needed.


Like my previous Saturn adventure, the Ion, the plastic door skins come off real easy to deaden the **** out of them. It might need more than the average metal door, but these are positively awesome cars to dissassemble and reassemble!

I have finalized the deck, time align and EQ: My Clarion DRX9375R, DPH9300 processor and CDC635 Changer will see duty for the front end! I have a pic somewhere...sec


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

coffee_junkee said:


> I bet it does! If this thing slides far enough down the "slippery slope", it might just land a DOHC swap... I hear it's friggin easy. I'm no stranger to motor swaps, both my Civics had Integra power! The EG was rockin a B18C5.. I miss Gumby..
> 
> 
> 
> Swaps to DOHC (LLO) are easy in that thing.They actually have the potential to lay down big HP numbers if done correctly. Street Design Auto is your friend. And as far as installing in these cars........probably on of the easiest installs.


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## iceman_ca (Aug 7, 2005)

Top of the dash comes out with two screws look in the centre of the panel, there is a indent with two cover flaps, look below two 7mm screws. Pry up panel with a screwdriver, and pull entire thing out.

Hopefully the door connection aren't to rusted to get the door panels off, going to try tomorrow on the one in my driveway.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

iceman_ca said:


> Top of the dash comes out with two screws look in the centre of the panel, there is a indent with two cover flaps, look below two 7mm screws. Pry up panel with a screwdriver, and pull entire thing out.
> 
> Hopefully the door connection aren't to rusted to get the door panels off, going to try tomorrow on the one in my driveway.


Sweet! Thanks..


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## KAP (Mar 18, 2007)

coffee_junkee said:


> I bet it does! If this thing slides far enough down the "slippery slope", it might just land a DOHC swap... I hear it's friggin easy. I'm no stranger to motor swaps, both my Civics had Integra power! The EG was rockin a B18C5.. I miss Gumby..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I swapped out my d15b in my 91 for a d16a6 and turboed it for some low end torque, its sweeeeeet. Oh and that c12a would look nice in that trunk.


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## annoyingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

Reminds me of the stereo I installed in my Celica.......

You think a $900 car is something? I paid $400 for an 83 Celica GT 

I left the doors unlocked everywhere I went because I figured the cost of replacing the 91 vintage Sony head unit would be less than the cost of a broken window or lock cylinder. Had similar vintage coaxials up front too.

....then I sold the car for $500.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

The kicks I started last weekend are finished as of last night. I made them as quickly as possible, so they were just made to be strong and then carpeted over. These will not be the finished product, but should get the job done for now. In version 2.0, the kicks will be a larger and sealed.

Here is a pic of the tasty Clarion combo.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

im loving the head unit


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

I remember that HU...from the 98~99 era?

Are the PG Ms going to be apart of this install?

Good job so far


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Brian_smith06 said:


> im loving the head unit


Thanks! I'm hoping that the 9300 is all the processor I need... We'll see! 



circa40 said:


> I remember that HU...from the 98~99 era?
> 
> Are the PG Ms going to be apart of this install?
> 
> Good job so far


Oh yeah! The M44 will cover the front stage, the M50 for sub duty and the M25 for rear fill or staging tweeters. I think with the kicks aimed the way they are height won't be an issue, but I needed ampage just in case.


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## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

chuyler1 said:


> I'm convinced any car can be fun as long as it has a stick-shift. Good luck with the install. I wish I had the space for another car...if I did, I'd prolly do something similar...but with a 1st gen Miata


I just picked up said 1st gen Miata  
Hope to be able to do something decent in it. 
Back to thread... good ideas. I personally liked the old Soundstream Reference stuff, and/or maybe some A/D/S ???


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

bobditts said:


> the sl2 must differ from the sl1 then. My GFs car has a wierd hump tha tis not the same on either side and there isnt a lot of leg room. The legs would block the kicks on either side. Im still very interested in seeing how yours tunrs out and how you think it sounds. Keep the pics coming!


I'll have some pics up tomorrow of the kicks and the floor itself with relation to the two sides. The passenger blocking the sound is somewhat of a worry, however my wife would be the most likely passenger and she is a rather short lady with thin legs. 

Going to the salvage yard this Friday for more spare interior parts to hack up. The door scuff plates that I cut in half for the kicks will need to be purchased in quantity if testing is to be done with differing types/sizes of drivers. Hope to score a bakers' dozen on the cheap.. Also need a couple of front door inside trim panels to hack up. I always wanted some 8's in the doors, so I figure why not give that a shot down the road.


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## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

If it's a commuter car, how bout some amps where the rear seat bottom cushion goes, then you'll have plenty of room for whatever sub you want to put in the trunk, and easy to switch stuff out. Looks like there's a decent amount of room there.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I love the HU combo. I've got a Clarion 9575rz and 7500z in my wifes car. Make sure you get the optical cables for yours...it makes a huge difference in the noise floor!


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> I love the HU combo. I've got a Clarion 9575rz and 7500z in my wifes car. Make sure you get the optical cables for yours...it makes a huge difference in the noise floor!


Do you know where I might score one? I have looked on eBay and the like and they seem kinda scarce..


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## Loudtaco (Dec 7, 2006)

I've got old quarts for sale! If you want vintage.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

coffee_junkee said:


> Do you know where I might score one? I have looked on eBay and the like and they seem kinda scarce..


The units or the cables? I had to buy my fiber cables from http://www.pacparts.com..they aren't cheap. I got the units on eBay after months of searching. This was a few years ago though so I'm guessing they are even more scarce now.


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## iceman_ca (Aug 7, 2005)

A Hit when removing the exterior door skins, a vice grip will fit over the plastic tab portion at the bottom of the doors ( 3 in total per door). Puting the grips there will prevent the plastic from cracking. With the interior door card off the tabs a quite esay to see. 

Did It today worked great.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Loudtaco said:


> I've got old quarts for sale! If you want vintage.


Very nice!

How many dollars? :d


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## Loudtaco (Dec 7, 2006)

They are the closest thing to new you will find for these speakers.


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

Make sure the M amps have a lot of ventilation, they are known for getting hot. They are extremely durable tho. I ran my first PG amps (M100/44) for years back in the mid 90s and I can't remember if they ever turned off. 

Also, for precautionary purposes, you may want to have your M44's input caps replaced. The M25/50 that I sent you already had the input caps replaced, so they should last longer then the car lol  

The M50 is known for making about double rated power, so your subs will be happy  I've seen a few benched at ~100wx2 

A little advice, the Ms (as well as most amps) love input voltage. I don't remember how much voltage that Clarion HU puts out (4v i think), but the Ms loves 8v. 
I have a PH linedriver if you need one (shameless plug :blush

I'm liking where this install is going man, keep us updated!


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

circa40 said:


> Make sure the M amps have a lot of ventilation, they are known for getting hot. They are extremely durable tho. I ran my first PG amps (M100/44) for years back in the mid 90s and I can't remember if they ever turned off.
> 
> Also, for precautionary purposes, you may want to have your M44's input caps replaced. The M25/50 that I sent you already had the input caps replaced, so they should last longer then the car lol
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I'm looking into that cap replacement on Monday. 

The DPH9300 may get agumented by a TLD66. It has selectable 2 or 4v output, and I have seen a test proving it's pretty stout, but a solid 8v never hurt... 

Now, for that complete 90's install look I need some Fleck Stone 2 part faux finish in a can... lol   Now THAT is old school flava'..


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

sent you a PM coffee


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## riceaterslc (Sep 9, 2007)

coffee_junkee said:


> Here is a pic of the tasty Clarion combo.


sweet buildup! this looks like my first head unit. god i can't believe i spent $400 on a tape deck


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

jesus I hated that radio. hell, ANY of the clarions with the round alpha-touch were garbage IMO. the ones with the pyramid alpha-touch were great. even better, see if you can score a 7770 or the ACDS-1.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

riceaterslc said:


> sweet buildup! this looks like my first head unit. god i can't believe i spent $400 on a tape deck


I spent $600 on my 7618. I miss that HU every day.


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## PSYKO_Inc (Dec 11, 2006)

Saturns are great cars IMO, my wife owns a silver 2000 SL1. The automatic transmission has its quirks (valve body sticks sometimes) but other than that, it's got 102K on it and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere; gets about 40 mpg highway too. She doesn't want me to do too many modifications to it, but I was able to talk her into letting me install a Sony Mobile ES headunit with Audax coaxials in the front doors, as well as an old JVC 15" sub and Directed 500-2 that I had in the garage from an old install. I think it was because the only things I had to buy for the install were the 4g amp kit, headunit bracket/harness, MDF/carpet for the box, and the coaxials lol


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

I spent most of my free time this weekend getting the install kit and most of the dash hushed up with my felt tape bag of tricks..  The rest of the time was spent carpeting my test kicks. 









I have had kicks installed in a couple of cars in the past and really didn't care too much for the sound so these may be temporary. When I get them hooked up, some "stage height" tweeters might be necessary. Both sides are done and installed, so this weekend I'll fab up the trunk enough for testing. Also hope to install the Quart add-a-midbass kit in the doors along with some deadner. Hopefully have a fruitful weekend.. 








The grey carpet has a green tinge to it in the pic, but not awful in person. I cut a tucked away piece of the carpet to send to Select Products for a better match. Great carpet, but if they are to be carpeted, they need to match better.. 

Note: I couldn't get the original carpet clean enough to satisfy my anal retentiveness, so a new carpet from Saturn was installed, as was a new set of carpet mats.. lol


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

Uhh...new carpet for a $900 car? You're crazy.  Especially from the stealer.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

speakerboy said:


> Uhh...new carpet for a $900 car? You're crazy.  Especially from the stealer.


I got everything on blowout.. My day job as a parts manager for a 50+ location chain of dealerships has it's benefits.  We own three Saturn franchises! Can you say dealer net plus 5% markup, plus tax!

My wife has spent more on a _cheap_ pair of shoes!


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

can you get a shot of those kicks with the door open?

my kickpanels wrap around the sill and the car body just like those. My first kickpanel iterations were also carpeted like that. I'd like to see if your's look any different to a person getting in and out of the car compared to mine.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> can you get a shot of those kicks with the door open?
> 
> my kickpanels wrap around the sill and the car body just like those. My first kickpanel iterations were also carpeted like that. I'd like to see if your's look any different to a person getting in and out of the car compared to mine.


Sure, I'll take one when I get home and post it here.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Mmm... Clarion ProAudio


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Finally got the cam back!  Here is a pic of the driver's side kick with the door open.










I also received the last piece needed to get the trunk started, the EQ215x.










Assuming the weather is good, I will get the box for the two JL Audio 10w1's started, as well as the frame for the quick-switch amp rack.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

OMG thos PGs are MINT!!!!! Talk about sexy...if only you could only find a mint EQ323...mmmm.....


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

Nice lineup you got there I can't wait for more install pics

Maybe build an amp rack with all 3 amps lined that? they look great that way IMO


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> OMG thos PGs are MINT!!!!! Talk about sexy...if only you could only find a mint EQ323...mmmm.....


Thanks!

The EQ232's are out there, problem is nobody wants to sell them.  

I found a Ti series 232 pretty cheap, but that won't do because it doesn't match!


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

circa40 said:


> Nice lineup you got there I can't wait for more install pics


Hopefully this week... Hopefully!

I took the wife's SUV to the lumber yard earlier today and loaded up on stock so there would be no excuses for progress.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You even got the PLDs...man I hate you right now.  That's gonna be the sex when it's done.

One question though, aren't the comps too new for the old school theme?


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> You even got the PLDs...man I hate you right now.  That's gonna be the sex when it's done.
> 
> One question though, aren't the comps too new for the old school theme?


They are. 

I had them "in stock" for a review and possible install in my Cobalt, but that project is on hold. So, I decided to use them in the SL and hunt for some PG Zero Point speakers of correct vintage. The Zero's are around, but getting rarer by the minute, plus the fact that I need tweets, 4's and 6's is going to be a challenge. 

There is a BNIB Diamond Audio three way set on eBay, but you can be sure the $$ on that is going to be HIGH!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The Diamonds would also be too new, but some Boston Pros from that era would be nice. I think the ZPs might be too new as well. If you could find some old SoundStreams those would be sweet.


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## crux131 (Feb 27, 2007)

zeropoint 4" ers are available on Robot Undergrounds Ebay store( or were a few weeks ago ). 

I don't know if they have the 6.5 or tweets though.

I am loving the old school themed install also. All the work looks great as well.


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

Kris, I still have that set of 6.5" Zeropoints with the tweets and passives in my truck. Grab a set of the 4" off eBay and you'd be all set. Mine aren't the prettiest looking anymore, but they still play fine. PM me if you're interested in them.


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## deadbeat son (Feb 24, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> ...If you could find some old SoundStreams those would be sweet.


<homer> Mmmmmmm....old school Soundstream components </homer>

I always LOVED the way those things sounded. I was going to pick up a set for my car, but got outbid at the last minute.

Any progress on the install?


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## Nology (Apr 14, 2008)

good stuff man! I love seeing old school builds


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## bigabe (May 1, 2007)

deadbeat son said:


> <homer> Mmmmmmm....old school Soundstream components </homer>
> 
> I always LOVED the way those things sounded. I was going to pick up a set for my car, but got outbid at the last minute.
> 
> Any progress on the install?



Old school Exact components pop up on eBay a lot more often than you would think. They typically go for around $180. Not a bad deal for Scanspeaks.


And I might catch some **** for this, but I have a soft spot for old school Rockford Fosgate Fanatic Q components. If you feed them enough power, they get mean. Great for folks that like a lively listen.


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## deadbeat son (Feb 24, 2008)

bigabe said:


> Old school Exact components pop up on eBay a lot more often than you would think. They typically go for around $180. Not a bad deal for Scanspeaks.
> 
> 
> And I might catch some **** for this, but I have a soft spot for old school Rockford Fosgate Fanatic Q components. If you feed them enough power, they get mean. Great for folks that like a lively listen.


I was thinking a little older school than the Exacts. Reference components circa 1994ish maybe? I also like the old Audiophile components, but haven't ever seen any of that stuff on ebay.

-JP


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

There is a guy that has a set of BNIB circa 1994 Lanzar DC 6.5 comp sets. Not the crap they have now. I would buy them if I had not spent money on 5 headunits this month.

Price is little high but he has an offer option. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/LANZAR-DC-SERIE...ryZ32819QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Nology (Apr 14, 2008)

8675309 said:


> There is a guy that has a set of BNIB circa 1994 Lanzar DC 6.5 comp sets. Not the crap they have now. I would buy them if I had not spent money on 5 headunits this month.
> 
> Price is little high but he has an offer option.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/LANZAR-DC-SERIE...ryZ32819QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



that guy always seems to have overpriced NIB old school stuff. I put an offer in on the 3 NIB lanzar amp fans he had the other day.


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## Nology (Apr 14, 2008)

deadbeat son said:


> I was thinking a little older school than the Exacts. Reference components circa 1994ish maybe? I also like the old Audiophile components, but haven't ever seen any of that stuff on ebay.
> 
> -JP



There was a set of A/D/S 6.5s new in the box from 1991 on the bay not too long ago. might still be there.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Yeah I just forked out $280 for a NOS Eclipse 414 from him. But I was looking and was willing to pay. If there is a market people will pay. But I have to say the guy was on game, nice, and ship prompt. I would deal with him again. He has some nice stuff.




Nology said:


> that guy always seems to have overpriced NIB old school stuff. I put an offer in on the 3 NIB lanzar amp fans he had the other day.


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## Shaun K (Mar 14, 2008)

deadbeat son said:


> <homer> Mmmmmmm....old school Soundstream components </homer>
> 
> I always LOVED the way those things sounded. I was going to pick up a set for my car, but got outbid at the last minute.


How old are we talking? I've seen 2 sets of Soundstream SPL 60 components for sale locally recently, but I don't remember how old those are.



Nology said:


> There was a set of A/D/S 6.5s new in the box from 1991 on the bay not too long ago. might still be there.


I think I bought those  . Needed a backup set for the 320is in my Honda.


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## Hispls (Mar 12, 2008)

I could make a comment about 2,000$ worth of equipment in a 900$ car, but those amps are too damn hot!

Just don't put 10 grand worth of wheels on the car and we'll let it slide.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Much progress was made over the last couple weeks, pics up soon!

DRX9375R/DPH9300/CDC635 combo was switched out for the following:

Clarion HX-D10 Limited
Clarion DPH-910 DSP unit
Clarion DCZ-625 Changer with optical

A PPI A404 and Ax400 are running the entire system, with a EPX-322 dividing the signals.

My new in box JL Audio 10w1's that were supposed to be single 8 ohm coils are actually single 4 ohm coils... Major bummer! Now the Ax400 is running the subs exclusively and another amp, likely an A100, will have to be added for full 4 way active!

The crossovers seen in the pic are temporary due to the subs being the wrong impedence..


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## deadbeat son (Feb 24, 2008)

Sweet...looking forward to the pics!

-JP


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Quick shot of the box post assembly. 1.5 cubes for the pair old 10w1's!









All of the interior door panels were treated to a layer of RAAMmat and closed cell foam. Sorry for the interesting pic, I thing my cam was in sepia.. 









Rear parcel shelf gets some love. Before








After










Period correct Phoenix Gold goodness. Shot taken during a test fit.









The Precision Power EPX-223. This was completely remade after I botched the alignment of the RCA holes. Old part shown! Measure twice, cut once... 










The amp rack with A404 and Ax400 installed. MB Quart crossovers were mounted to the back brace as a temporary measure. The space where they are mounted will have a tray with the crossovers, DPH-910 processor and CD changer displayed.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Shot of the trunk in its entirity.









MMMMMmmmMMmMMmmmmm... Art Series!









The carpeted trim boards shown were made to handle day to day hauling of things in the trunk. A second set with plexi windows to display the gear are in the process of being made. They will be wrapped in vinyl for a more polished look.




























The Clarion HX-D10 Limited in it's new home..


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## machinehead (Nov 6, 2005)

I was just thinking of doing an old skool install the other day. I was gonna recreate my first system im my first car. But then again, i dont even have money to finish my install in the prelude as it is.

You have balls my friend, putting a system in a plastic car and all


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

machinehead said:


> I was just thinking of doing an old skool install the other day. I was gonna recreate my first system im my first car. But then again, i dont even have money to finish my install in the prelude as it is.
> 
> You have balls my friend, putting a system in a plastic car and all


I had my doubts with my first Saturn, a 2004 Ion 3. Saturns are so easy to disassemble and parts are plentiful at bone yards. Not to mention the outer skins of the car (doors/quarter/fenders/trunk lid) can be removed in 10 minutes or less, per panel. Makes deadning them an easy chore! 

Saturn FTW!!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

coffee_junkee said:


> I had my doubts with my first Saturn, a 2004 Ion 3. Saturns are so easy to disassemble and parts are plentiful at bone yards. Not to mention the outer skins of the car (doors/quarter/fenders/trunk lid) can be removed in 10 minutes or less, per panel. Makes deadning them an easy chore!
> 
> Saturn FTW!!


06+ VWs do this too. And I agree, deadening is WAY easier this way.


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## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

Nice work. Love the look of the Art Series.


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

LOOKIN' GOOD!


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## SonnyD (May 31, 2008)

Very cool Buildup!!!!!....I'm a big Saturn fan, and pretty
"old skool" myself being almost 58 years old. Your system
is starting to look like a lot of what I was usuing in
92-94...in my Mazda pickup. I had an A404 running
my 2-10 JL Smartbox....and and an A600 running my
3 way Quarts. I even went hole hog at the time and
bought the Qm25 Tweets. 
I'm just getting back into car audio, and currently have
a Saturn SC1 that I bought new in 99....just bought a new
Kenwood X592....and thinking about installing my 1996 Vintage xTant amps and 3-10 JL Box....havn't decided
on front components yet.
I'm anxiously awaiting your pics.....it's looking very
COOL
Regards Sonny


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Yeah that's ****in dope (the trunk and the gear, not the $900 Saturn ).


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

So I met this guy the other day that has purchased approximately 2000 wrecked, scrapped or perfectly fine used Saturn S-Series from 1990-2002! Yep, 2000 of them! 90% of are covered by tarps in a nicely graveled and mowed field in Wabash County Indiana, near where I live. Funny thing is most of them are/were complete running vehicles when they were parked. He tells me that only a few people know about his "stash" and barely any parts have been removed from them. Chuck is absolutely ate up with Saturns! Anyway... He was nice enough to let me see them as long as I promised not to take any pics, but let me tell you it was a sight to behold! He also allowed me to scavenge some much needed parts to make the interior of project SL almost 100% new in appearance!

I purchased new carpet and carpet mats from the dealer, but the seat pads were discontinued so a new driver's seat was looking like a slim find. Chuck to the rescue! Seat pads from a same year 1996 that had 4000 miles on it! 










New and old pads side by side for comparison:









Old worn out seat:









I also took the opportunity to replace the original 13 year old muffler with a new one from NAPA. After the $50 mail in rebate check comes, I'll have spent only $13 for a new lifetime muffler and hangar kit! Woo! Cordless Craftsman bayonet saw had the old one off in three minutes.. 

No amount of RAAMmat was going to quelm the nasties coming from this:










New:


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Last week some much needed attention was given to the outside of the beast..

The original struts were holding up pretty well, but stock ride height left a bit to be desired..  New H&R Sport springs, KYB GR-2 struts and KYB strut mounts were installed, along with polyurethane bushings in a few places. A set of 15" Nippon C28 wheels were wrapped with Yokohama S.Drive tires to complete the suspension.

Windows were tinted 15% for some gangsta flava'..


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

You had me until the aftermarket wheels.

-aaron


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## Nitr0racing21 (May 25, 2008)

More in audio then what the car costs, I love that!


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

ArcL100 said:


> You had me until the aftermarket wheels.
> 
> -aaron


Aww man, you don't like the wheels? I know they are somewhat "JDM" in flavor, but I needed something to tie in the black bumpers.. 

Black bumper mafia fo' life! lol


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## SonnyD (May 31, 2008)

Pretty cool about the guy with all the Satty's....I've got a spot fairly close to me, about 80 miles that has quite a few. That's all he does, just Satty's.....I don't think he has near 2000 though. Most of his have been canabilized quite a bit too.
Sharp looking car. When you get it done you need to track down that previous owner and give them a Look see, that should be a Priceless look!!!
Regards Sonny


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

cool... just cool... modern techniques (I don't remember non pro installs in mid 90's having that much deadning) combined with 'olskool' gear. Just too cool. Well done & great execution.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Updates on the ever changing SL.. 

The wife and boys bought me a Pioneer AVH-P4000DVD for Father's Day this year! YAY! Only problem was that the Clarion HX-D10 and DPH-910 combo were the cornerstone of my ability to tailor the sound.. The 3 band parametric onboard is not much less than I had with the DPH-910, but my kicks need a little T/A. Hmm.. More on that later. 

Nobody makes a double DIN dash kit for the old school Saturns, so I had to make my own from a single DIN kit. Total pain in the ass, but with 4 hours worth of sanding, bondo, resin, ABS sheet and Krylon texture paint, it's finally in.





































Later on, I laid some more RAAMmat on all four outer door skins. Also installed a Deflex pad behind the midbass and some Ensolite over the rest of the skin. Instead of taking off the whole skin, I just removed the perimeter screws and the door handle. I then propped them up with a storage container and laid it on!


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## enigma (Jul 5, 2008)

Really nice build, its amazing where that car started from and where it is now. Alot of work went into that Saturn, nice job!!

How are you enjoying the Pioneer HU? I though about trying DD, but i like the options a single DIN HU offers me. Cant beat the Pioneers price tag though.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Nice job on the dash!


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## ccrobbins (Aug 19, 2006)

Hell Yeah! Nice job.


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## twista17 (Jun 5, 2007)

coffee_junkee said:


> Last week some much needed attention was given to the outside of the beast..
> 
> The original struts were holding up pretty well, but stock ride height left a bit to be desired..  New H&R Sport springs, KYB GR-2 struts and KYB strut mounts were installed, along with polyurethane bushings in a few places. A set of 15" Nippon C28 wheels were wrapped with Yokohama S.Drive tires to complete the suspension.
> 
> Windows were tinted 15% for some gangsta flava'..



great find on the saturn parts guy! that's jsut really good luck for your SL project. i'm loving the seats but i really loving this shot of the SL1! great work!


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## margarine518 (Jun 4, 2008)

coffee_junkee said:


> Last week some much needed attention was given to the outside of the beast..
> 
> The original struts were holding up pretty well, but stock ride height left a bit to be desired..  New H&R Sport springs, KYB GR-2 struts and KYB strut mounts were installed, along with polyurethane bushings in a few places. A set of 15" Nippon C28 wheels were wrapped with Yokohama S.Drive tires to complete the suspension.
> 
> Windows were tinted 15% for some gangsta flava'..


Where was this pic taken? Longshot question: Are you near Purdue?


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## RobD (Jan 28, 2008)

Holy crap! That has to be the nicest looking dash kit I've ever seen. Well done making the double DIN fit that opening. If I ever need to fit a square peg into a round hole, I know who to call.


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

very nice and tidy install.
a few questions thou.

How do you find those MB Quartz?
also what size are they? they appear to be 5.25"
What happenend to the PG amp lineup?
why did you change to the Art works amps?

Yeah must be crazy getting so many questions in one post?
well very well done indeed.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Sunday and Monday were good days for the old beast.. 

I really wanted something with some more visual pop, but also wanted to simplify things a bit. The multi amp setup with outboard crossover were dumped in favor of a single amp. The amp needed to have some serious balls with flexible crossovers and be lighter than the old PPI duo. Enter the Phoenix Gold Titanium 900.7..!  Slightly lighter than the old twin A404's, this bad boy really allowed me to clean up the wiring underneath the amp rack. Everything got the techflex treatment along with terminating the ends with gold spades, solder and finished with shrink tube. 

MB Quart crossovers for the front mids/tweets were displayed plexi side up, along with the newly added rear fill crossovers. Bummer that they are a different style, but meh...this is a $900 car after all. 

Amp rack is new with the obligatory grommets for wire passage and wrapped in some clearance rack faux suede material. The sub box, carpet covers and most of the wood that the old amp rack was made from were recycled to this install. Minus the cost of the amp, I only had time and $25 in materials to make the changes. Not too bad.

While everything was out I laid down RAAMmat in the trunk area, double thick in many places where the metal was thinly damped. Huge difference in sub detail since the exhaust is very, very faint now. Nice!

I also needed a place to mount the LPL44 remote gain and RMD voltage display for the amp, so I'm fabbing up a new overhead console. I also decided to add some much needed map lights and switches for them along with two extras for the fans, etc.. When finished, the sides will be wrapped with headliner material and the control area will get the same texture treatment given to the dash kit surrounding the head unit for a factory look. The headliner will also get scrapped clean of it's old dirty fabric and rewrapped. Probably wrap the descending pillar trims while they are off if I have any left. 





































































































Next up is moving the mids and tweets from the three way set up front to the "A" pillar and installing the rear fill! Should be interesting...

**Edit. I also forgot to mention the two blue LED computer case fans mounted underneath the amp. Though not lit in any of the pics, you can see in the shots of the amp mounted in the finished board that it is elevated 1/4" for the fans to blow cold air onto the bottom and out the sides.


----------



## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

I've forgotten what you have in there, but are you only using 2 channels of input to that amp? And what are those bigger passives? Are those Quarts too?


----------



## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Fran82 said:


> I've forgotten what you have in there, but are you only using 2 channels of input to that amp? And what are those bigger passives? Are those Quarts too?


Yes, the amp is doing all of the crossover duties so only two channels were needed. It has a variable onboard HP/BP/LP crossovers.

Both are Quart crossovers. The rear fill are the smaller of the two. There is quite a difference between the lesser "Reference" Quarts and the higher up "Premium" line.

The front stage is a set of PVF-210's (4" mids and 1" tweets) with QSD-164 6.5" midbass drivers. Rear fill is a RVF-210 4" comp set running off the rear channels of the head unit's onboard amp. This allows me to fade them in when needed without messing up the front pre-amp outputs.  The rear fill is not completly installed at the moment. I'm searching for trim paint to match the rear deck so the tweeters don't stand out. 

Subs are new old stock JL Audio 10w1 v1's. Dual 4 ohm wired parallel to present a 2 ohm load to the rear channels of the PG.


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

coffee_junkee said:


> Yes, the amp is doing all of the crossover duties so only two channels were needed. It has a variable onboard HP/BP/LP crossovers.
> 
> Both are Quart crossovers. The rear fill are the smaller of the two. There is quite a difference between the lesser "Reference" Quarts and the higher up "Premium" line.
> 
> ...



How do you like the newer Quarts- PVF-210's?


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## Appetite (Jun 11, 2008)

Love this whole build! I need to get me a "has been" and fix it up to drive to work instead of my gashog F-150! Ugly duckling to swan I say!! 



coffee_junkee said:


> Where did you get the black grommets you used for wire penetrations in the MDF?


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

You can get them at any auto parts store.


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

Damn, still not done yet  I totally forgot about this thread...

I'm still not totally sure yet if I want to sell these but I have a set of OS (~`97ish) ADS 344is 4" comps :blush: that might work well in your install if you decide to go active (no passives). These are the old blueish/purpleish cones with grills.

Edit:
I also have a pair of ADS A5im that might work well as rear fill (a bit wasteful tho)....


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Thanks for all the compliments!

I love the Ti900.5, but I think I'm going back to all white PPI arts, since I have them in stock.. 

Since the last update the car has gotten:

-All new sensors under the hood to cure an intermittent driveability issue, yes all of them!

-New pads, rotors, calipers, drums, shoes, hardware and brake flush.

-New outside mirrors to replace the broken originals.

-Yet another set of rims and tires, 17" this time.

-Extensive rustproofing of the spaceframe using Tectyl 847 fog-in hardening wax. Interesting stuff, the Tectyl.

-New headliner with matching wrap for the A, B and C pillar trim.

-Expandable foam throughout most of the steel spaceframe after rustproofed.

-RAAMmat and Ensolite on the roof while the headliner was out. (made huge difference, quite to my surprize)

-MB Quart RUA-210 shallow comp set running off rear channels of the AVH-P4000DVD for some added fill.

-Off brand eBay strut tower brace to use a mounting base for the main power wire fuse.

-All rusty or corroded bolts and nuts were replaced with new parts under the hood. Also extensive engine compartment detailing when new sensors were installed.

I'll take some pics of the beast and update later on.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

coffee_junkee said:


> -RAAMmat and Ensolite on the roof while the headliner was out. (made huge difference, quite to my surprize)


This one puzzles me. Most people don't seem to do it and I think Rick even recommends not doing it. It's a huge area of largely unbraced sheet metal, so both resonance and flexing are going to be factors. Air flowing over the roof can cause noise. The biggest shock for me was driving in the rain after treating the roof - amazing difference. YMMV.


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## M3NTAL (Apr 9, 2006)

Very nice work so far!


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> This one puzzles me. Most people don't seem to do it and I think Rick even recommends not doing it. It's a huge area of largely unbraced sheet metal, so both resonance and flexing are going to be factors. Air flowing over the roof can cause noise. The biggest shock for me was driving in the rain after treating the roof - amazing difference. YMMV.


Yes, the difference was nothing short of dramatic. Interestingly enough, the factory used some deadner that looked almost exactly like RAAMmat without the wrinkles from being rolled up. There was about 4 square feet already there. I layered another 8 or so on top of the existing. Between that, some ensolite and a new headliner made from thicker material, huge improvement.

I'll try to get some pics uploaded later today..


----------



## *Extreme1/StangGT* (Sep 14, 2008)

SonnyD said:


> Very cool Buildup!!!!!....I'm a big Saturn fan, and pretty
> "old skool" myself being almost 58 years old. Your system
> is starting to look like a lot of what I was usuing in
> 92-94...in my Mazda pickup. I had an A404 running
> ...


**************=========**************
Hello Sonny/
I got ya beat in age by 2/years...Older/ .LOL! It's all good I guess.People say age is a Number...Ya Think?
Anyways,I have a '98-Dark Blue/SC2,and love the *Plastic Fantastic*/.I also have old school Kicker Amps.I have a ZR/1000 for the subs and a ZR/600 for my CDT Front Stage.
Your Xtant Amps would look really Sweet in your Saturn!!.
I liked those amps.All the Best w/your system.
I like the gear Coffee Junkie has,too.
Best Regards/


----------



## *Extreme1/StangGT* (Sep 14, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> This one puzzles me. Most people don't seem to do it and I think Rick even recommends not doing it. It's a huge area of largely unbraced sheet metal, so both resonance and flexing are going to be factors. Air flowing over the roof can cause noise. The biggest shock for me was driving in the rain after treating the roof - amazing difference. YMMV.


***************==========**************
Hello Don/
This is Ray from Sound Domain.The guy who sent you approx. 6 Sound Destroyer matting for testing Purposes?
Never heard back from you....Take Care


----------



## *Extreme1/StangGT* (Sep 14, 2008)

coffee_junkee said:


> Quick shot of the box post assembly. 1.5 cubes for the pair old 10w1's!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


**************==========***************
Hello CJ/
I have a 98/SC2.This is only a help tip,and something I did to the Rear Deck of my Saturn.I see yours is done,though.What I did was take a flat piece of 1/8" Thick Aluminum flat stock about an 1" wide and mounted it to the two threaded metric holes in center of rear deck.I drilled 2/holes out in the aluminum,just a bit bigger than the metric bolts to hold it to the metal deck.It worked well.You may not have to do that w/your car.The only prob w/that was,I lost the two "push clips" to hold the center dow.So I cut the stem off and hot glued the button to the top of the carpet panel.I do not have the rattle[In my Saturn] anymore,plus it tighten up the rear deck,along w/the mat I used.
Saturn's looking nice/.
Best Regards/


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

*Extreme1/StangGT* said:


> ***************==========**************
> Hello Don/
> This is Ray from Sound Domain.The guy who sent you approx. 6 Sound Destroyer matting for testing Purposes?
> Never heard back from you....Take Care


Hello Ray,

Not sure what you mean? I tested the samples and posted the results in the same thread in which you offered to send them to me. It was pretty memorable actually. It turned out to be asphalt adhesive with a Mylar facing despite the sellers claims to the contrary. Same thing as R-Blox, basically the least desirable combination of materials possible. I went on to post the results on this Forum and others as well.

After my posts on SoundDomain, the seller of Sound Destroyer joined the thread and first insisted that I prove the stuff was asphalt, after I did, he then insisted it wasn't his responsibility to know what he was selling. He then threatened to sue me if I made the fact that he, R-BLox and FatMat were all in the same PA town. I did, he didn't, but eventually went on to delete all of his posts in the thread leaving everybody shaking their heads.

I know you were somewhat unhappy with how things worked out since you had entered into an arrangement with the seller of Sound Destroyer that gave you a discount in exchange for a favorable forum review. I did my best to live up to my side of things and specifically remember sending you a series of PMs to reassure you that I thought you were a more or less innocent victim of a dishonest scammer. Not sure what more you were expecting to hear from me?


----------



## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

I have been following this build, and loving every step. I had a SW2 that I commuted in for a couple of years and it ate up the miles with glee. I had a simple install, deck, amp and speakers. I went with an "old school" build too - Alpine 7949 deck, Xtant amp and MB Quart of the same vintage (1998-2000ish). I never had a chance to fully mod it out, certainly not like this! I sold it for more than I paid for it, and it had 213,000 miles at that point (40,000 of which were mine).

I've been looking for another beater, maybe a Saturn SC2 in a five speed...and this thread just motivates that. No...must...fight...urge.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

ReloadedSS said:


> I have been following this build, and loving every step. I had a SW2 that I commuted in for a couple of years and it ate up the miles with glee. I had a simple install, deck, amp and speakers. I went with an "old school" build too - Alpine 7949 deck, Xtant amp and MB Quart of the same vintage (1998-2000ish). I never had a chance to fully mod it out, certainly not like this! I sold it for more than I paid for it, and it had 213,000 miles at that point (40,000 of which were mine).
> 
> I've been looking for another beater, maybe a Saturn SC2 in a five speed...and this thread just motivates that. No...must...fight...urge.


I have been fighting the urge to buy another one, but sadly have no place to park it... Since I decided to pass on another, clean and cheap examples are popping up all over!

It is turning out to be one of the favorite cars I have owned...and there have been many! Damn thing is just simple and tough, like it were designed by Soviets during the Cold War!


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## bmwme (Sep 17, 2008)

You are CRAZY! This thread was an awesome read, thank you very much. I don't care what car you start with if you can make it this clean and perfect! I myself am not a diehard Saturn fan but I do respect there lightness and pure effeciency.


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## Irishfocus06 (Sep 11, 2008)

Wow mang, just wow! I see some really nice old school stuff in there for sure. I miss the hell out of the PPI art series amps. Very clean sound from those. Also some nice PG old school in there. This brings back some memories here. Excellent job on everything so far. 

I would personally take out the Pioneer 4000 and put back in the Clarion Pro Audio deck. I love that deck and buddy still has one in his truck and just puts out such a good signal! 

What have you spent on all this old school goodness? I would love to get my hands on some stuff like this in the future, just can't right now. House first, lol! Also were do you find this old school stuff? I am an avid buyer/seller on other forums and just joined here not long ago and would love to know. Thanks and enjoy the **** out of those setups. I am sure you do though.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Thanks for the compliments!

My gear has come from all over creation. I'm still sitting on ~40 Art Series, ProMos, Sedona and ProArt amps. I also have just about every signal processor they ever made.

Lately I have gone MB Quart Qwazy! The PVF's were fine, but why not some QSC's? Three way setup with 6" QSC-164's in the door and a QSC-210 comp set split between the kicks and the A pillar.

Got the kicks done today:




























The piece of trim in the picture is from a 2001 which is a different color of grey than my 96. The carpet should match pretty well. I have tried several shades and can't get a perfect match to the somewhat purple tone the factory carpet has. It's like a quartz or something..

I ruined a set of grilles and mounting basket from a RUE comp set to save the Q's from the grill cloth and paint treatment. 

Next week will bring on work to the A pillar for an angled tweeter mount.


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

wow, this is the first time I've checked out this thread. Nice revival of an old Saturn! Excellent work.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

drocpsu said:


> wow, this is the first time I've checked out this thread. Nice revival of an old Saturn! Excellent work.


Thanks!

Got some more work done this evening!

The A pillars were glassed with cloth to support a new mount for the tweeters. They are angled in about 30 degrees on axis and aimed at face level. My main issue with the kicks was that the rear fill had to be cranked up for any real stage height. Remember that I had 4" Morel Integras firing on axis, on top of the dash in my old car. Spoiled me a bit!

My original plan was to use the shallow basket RUE Quart 4" mids on the A pillar. Just didn't have the guts!





































These are wrapped in matching headliner material. Many thanks to the wife for allowing me to use Spray 77 in the livingroom with little complaint!


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

mad skills, love that its all in an old car, i hope you have/get a 'good' alarm.

id love to do something like it, id leave it ugly on teh outside, but the sounds and performance would be great.


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## Mikefromindiana (Sep 18, 2008)

nice car


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## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> You even got the PLDs...man I hate you right now.  That's gonna be the sex when it's done.
> 
> One question though, aren't the comps too new for the old school theme?



I was about to post "where are the PLD's or the Crystal-Line Drivers!"???

LOL great idea

Rob
2004 WRX Wagon


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Moving along with things..

My AVH-P4000 has a three band para eq that didn't provide enough tuning ability so I decided that 30 bands per channel was mo' better! Keeping with the Phoenix Gold theme, I decided on the Ti EQ232. Don't mind the white EQ230 shown in the pics, I grabbed the wrong box and headed to the garage. The correct Ti version will be installed in it's place next chance I have time.

A carpeted cover with plexi will be made to protect it from things rolling around my trunk when time allows. I also changed the carpet color and will recover the remaining pieces and new sub box to match. This carpet is darker and has less green cast to match the other trunk liner a bit better. I used three "L" brackets to hold the EQ in place, two at the bottom and one at the top.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Here are a few pics of the MBQ three way front stage. I decided after an extensive listening session that I liked the PVF tweeter much, MUCH better. Way more laid back at moderate volume than the QSC, so I decided to keep what I had. The PVF tweeter has a killer off axis response and doesn't leave your ears burning after an extended listen like Quarts of yore.

The tweeters are angled on axis about 20 degrees. I couldn't bring them more on axis without endangering the ability to install the dash top back into place. It barely went back in! I had to protect the pillars with masking tape to prevent scratching the painted grilles and mounting cup when putting the top back in!

The pillars were damped with RAAMmat and the tweeter cavity was suffed tight with polyfill before installing.

The kick panels were illuminated with a flourescent lamp and it really reveals the difference in carpet color. In normal light, it's close enough for me and looks much better than the grey-green carpet that I had before.


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## M3NTAL (Apr 9, 2006)

Looking awesome still! Keep up the great work.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

This is great, keep up all the work and inspire the rest of us!!!

I really liked the sound of those MB Quarts and their similar vintage. Partly because of this thread, I stopped at a used car lot around the corner from work to see what "deals" could be found. Then, somewhat fittingly, the misses called... :blush:


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## SQCherokee (Mar 5, 2008)

any updates? I'd like to see the over head console installed


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Reviving this one from the past...any updates? This was one of my favorite builds.


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

Any word on this build I was reading it and kinda got left hanging
like carfi blue balls


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## bamelanc (Sep 13, 2009)

Revival! I want to see completion too. I don't have a Saturn, never owned one...rode in one once. However, awesome thread. Great install/ing. When I get my truck paid off, I would like to go old school on used lot, back row, after thought sedan.

BTW, did he mention if he did any upgrades to the power...battery...alternator? Surely that alternator doesn't do but 70 or 80 amps at best?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Yo Coffee... you still around to tell us how the Saturn is doing?


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## pcana11 (Jan 2, 2010)

what did you use to run the wires through the amp rack? the black plastic things and where do you get them


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## JoeDirte (Sep 21, 2009)

Look about 20 posts back.


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## nebur8 (Dec 28, 2009)

chad said:


> I like to call that good upper cylinder lubrication..... Chevy small blocks did the same damn thing. Puff of smoke at startup? Baaahhh, it's fine.


lol...so true!!


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## bugmenot (Feb 4, 2009)

> Titanium shift knob I had leftover from my Civic hatch days..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much did you cut off of the shaft? I want to try this on mine, but don't want to cut too much off.


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## don_chuwish (Oct 29, 2009)

bugmenot said:


> How much did you cut off of the shaft? I want to try this on mine, but don't want to cut too much off.


uh... as dead as this thread was, the revival is worth it from that line alone.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

I was quite surprised to see this bumped from the dead!!

Got kinda bored with the car and sold it to a friend who needed a good set of wheels. I kept all the gear though.

Keep an eye out for my new regular cab compact pickup SQ build. Always wanted to do a truck and now I can!!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

coffee_junkee said:


> I was quite surprised to see this bumped from the dead!!
> 
> Got kinda bored with the car and sold it to a friend who needed a good set of wheels. I kept all the gear though.
> 
> Keep an eye out for my new regular cab compact pickup SQ build. Always wanted to do a truck and now I can!!



Hey, me too. I'm starting on a 1997 S-10 I bought for $1k.  I think I'll log it as I go...


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

You guys are awesome. Can't wait to see what you do with your installs.

Coffee Junkie, my hat's off to you for this thread.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

Thanks Reloaded. 

The SL was such a good car. I piled the miles on and she took them like a champ. Damn thing consistently returned 39-41 MPG driving sensibly and close to 50 using some hypermiling techniques. My commute is very early morning, so hypermiling can be accomplished without angering other drivers.

Wait until you see this Sonoma, it's in such good condition. Girl I bought it from got it brand new for her "first car". She babied it from high school all the way through grad school. I can't wait freshen it up with some new wheels, rubber and lowering kit.

Thanks again!!


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

coffee_junkee said:


> Thanks Reloaded.
> 
> The SL was such a good car. I piled the miles on and she took them like a champ. Damn thing consistently returned 39-41 MPG driving sensibly and close to 50 using some hypermiling techniques. My commute is very early morning, so hypermiling can be accomplished without angering other drivers.
> 
> ...


I did the same thing with my Saturn -- loved getting 35+ mpg without even trying. Probably the best car as far as fuel economy I've owned. A bit spartan, but it is what it is. It has its own appeal, being a basic car.

I really like those light GM trucks; although my friends have had a ton of problems with theirs, I think they are still good bang for the buck around town cars. If I had a job where I would stay around town, which I hope to be in a few years, those GM light trucks will be on my radar as a get around car; the toyota trucks being too expensive even in resale.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

ReloadedSS said:


> I did the same thing with my Saturn -- loved getting 35+ mpg without even trying. Probably the best car as far as fuel economy I've owned. A bit spartan, but it is what it is. It has its own appeal, being a basic car.
> 
> I really like those light GM trucks; although my friends have had a ton of problems with theirs, I think they are still good bang for the buck around town cars. If I had a job where I would stay around town, which I hope to be in a few years, those GM light trucks will be on my radar as a get around car; the toyota trucks being too expensive even in resale.


Yes, the S-10 and Sonoma, like many cars with over 100k miles, can be trouble when things haven't been maintained. I looked high and low for a Toyo Taco, problem is they are getting scarce because so many are being bought back for rusty frames. People don't want to part with a decent used one for reasonable $$ because when the frame does finally give in to corrosion, the owner will cash in huge at buyback time! 

The Sonoma I scored is a 2.2L, automatic. Suits my needs fine. Great for light hauling, commuting and retarded cheap to maintain. They sold a crap-ton of them over 10 years, parts are plentiful.

I bought her with the check engine light on. Dreaded smog air pump. Bought a replacement at O'Reilly's for $109 with a lifetime warranty. When it goes out again, and it will, future replacements will be free.  Other than that, she is pretty stout. Used the check engine light as leverage on the price, worked pretty well; $400 off her asking price for a $109 part.

Equipment for the build is en route. Work and subsequent build log up shortly!!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

coffee_junkee said:


> Yes, the S-10 and Sonoma, like many cars with over 100k miles, can be trouble when things haven't been maintained. I looked high and low for a Toyo Taco, problem is they are getting scarce because so many are being bought back for rusty frames. People don't want to part with a decent used one for reasonable $$ because when the frame does finally give in to corrosion, the owner will cash in huge at buyback time!
> 
> The Sonoma I scored is a 2.2L, automatic. Suits my needs fine. Great for light hauling, commuting and retarded cheap to maintain. They sold a crap-ton of them over 10 years, parts are plentiful.
> 
> ...


Mine's a standard cab 1997 that got the 2.2 mated to the 5spd. Perfect combo since it get's 25-29mpg depending on driving habits and such. It's got manual locks/windows. Lacks the tilt column. No cruise control. It's as spartan as they come, and I love it!

I'd definately like to hear your idea's on teh truck. I'm planning to drop mine and sit it on some 18's. So far i've popped in the ubiquitous dxz785usb. 

Keep this part # handy ( 15174447 ). When you break the hazard switch, this will save you around $300 or so. 

The main fix coming up will be to repair the A/C system. I tried to recharge it, and it blew cold for about 20-25 seconds, and then it all leaked out again. 

Exploring in the doors the other day, I found out that the window track runs right behind the speakers. This means semi-shallow depth. I didn't measure it yet, but I did mock up a dayton RS180, and it was about 1/4-3/8" from fitting depth wise. I want to go 3way in there. I think 6.5-7" midbass in the door. 4" midrange and a tweet in the dash. Probably a nice flat 10-12" behind the drivers seat. Ace the jack/tool kit (or at least relocate it) that's behind the passenger seat. Then I think I'm going to run a Black A404, Black A300, and a black A600. I'm sure you can see the steps for 3way active. I think i'll need an external crossover to split the mid/tweet properly, but their both going to be in the same location, so T/A should work out fine running them both off the front channels. 

Big 3 coming up. Right after I get the Outbacks old 2.5 motor out of the bed. (I love trucks!)


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## crux131 (Feb 27, 2007)

On the window track problem...you can space the tracks back about 0.75" with a spacer or an over sized nut on the bolt. Just sandwich it between the track and the inner door, then put the factory nut back on.

That can gain you a little, then there is room for a spacer on the speaker mount since the door panel allows a little clearance. 

Should be able to squeeze an extra inch and a quarter or so mounting depth.
I haven't used speaker spacers, but have spaced the window tracks back. This has caused no problems with the power windows in over a year and a half.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

crux131 said:


> On the window track problem...you can space the tracks back about 0.75" with a spacer or an over sized nut on the bolt. Just sandwich it between the track and the inner door, then put the factory nut back on.
> 
> That can gain you a little, then there is room for a spacer on the speaker mount since the door panel allows a little clearance.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I thought about spacing the window track back. Your input on the lack of issues might have me convinced to try it. I only need .5" or less to run most of the midbass drivers I have. 

Now i'm more excited about doing something to my $1k s-10 beater...


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

A good friend of mine had a 97 Extended cab, V6, a/t, 2wd. Just with basic upgrades like 4x6 plates, 6.5 coaxials , 10" Cadence sub and a 5-channel alpine amp it was pretty "loud." SQ left a bit to be desired, probably due to imaging from the dash and doors. Cried out for more crossover and eq, but he loved it. Gave him nothing but trouble, but he kept it in great shape.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

I think I have everything needed either in stock or on the way, so I guess a build thread is in order.. 

This truck is the "inspiration" for my build. Sooooo clean:

MotorMusicMag.com - The art & technology of the automobile - Trucks


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

I myself have a 2004 s10 blazer 2 door as a DD that i'm slowly building up (i am a college student after all) and i love how easy they are to work on inside and out. My brother had a 1999 s10 standard cab that he ended up putting a computer into for all his music (and solitaire in traffic lol). coffee, you'll have a lot of fun building your sonoma


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