# Anyone tried the Epique E180HE-44?



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

The XBL/2 motor looks promising. 14mm linear looks appetizing. 

I want some thing that puts out a ton of sound at 80 Hz. That can really pump amd take abuse..

I used to go Stereo integrity Mk1 for a little while and it just didn’t do the job and it did sound very good it had excellent sound quality but it did not have the excursion that I was wanting....

I’m just curious if anyone’s tried this little thing and has put substantial power to it and if it can take a heavy beating


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> The XBL/2 motor looks promising. 14mm linear looks appetizing.
> 
> I want some thing that puts out a ton of sound at 80 Hz. That can really pump amd take abuse..
> 
> ...


Just looking the specs and description over, it looks very promising, and it's Dayton Audio. Have you thought about the Anarchy 704's? The Anarchy's get pretty rowdy with 300 watts each and high-passed at 40 hz, and they're half the price.


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## finquer (Aug 21, 2021)

Personally, I'm more interested in Le(x). 
find a word​


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I saw the anarchy and dam that is beefy also..... but this thing has a full copper sleeve , carbon fiber , 14mm linear and that BL is dam near flat all the way through its excursion. That is pretty dam amazing. And for 129$ ea at 48% off

So I had to just grab a set as PE always horrs out new Dayton stuff for chap AF then once popular the price goes up... so once I saw that I got a set.... so I guess I will find out just ordered them a min ago

This looks like a SQ speaker and subwoofer .... hopefully it keeps its volume through the Excurtion like a XBL should, the MK1 was not impressive for that aspect.... I want to push 70-100hz through this thing and get the full 14mm at 80hz. Which is a lot of movement for that frequency.


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## blenton (Mar 1, 2018)

I followed as much of the development of the driver as I could on PE’s website. From what I gather, they designed them as mini subwoofers to compete/trounce the likes of Tang Bands and such, but as they started getting prototypes together, they were able to do a little meddling here and there to extend the range into a woofer instead of just a subwoofer. They were quite anticipated on the forum. And darn stout looking. I know that an Ultimax cone gutted from the driver is strong enough to stand on; I suspect these share such a trait. And, yes, that BL curve looks delicious. There were some erroneous TS parameters floating around for a while which put a little bit of a damper on the hype, but I think PE’s listed specs are pretty close. 

That said, I haven’t pulled the trigger on any yet. I’m curious to see how the production units measure at my place. I couldn’t decide on the 7” or the 5.5” version; want the extension of the larger driver but the box size of the smaller one. But in the 70hz range, that shouldn’t be a factor. Strangely, the 7” isn’t much more efficient than the 5.5”.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> I saw the anarchy and dam that is beefy also..... but this thing has a full copper sleeve , carbon fiber , 14mm linear and that BL is dam near flat all the way through its excursion. That is pretty dam amazing. And for 129$ ea at 48% off
> 
> So I had to just grab a set as PE always horrs out new Dayton stuff for chap AF then once popular the price goes up... so once I saw that I got a set.... so I guess I will find out just ordered them a min ago
> 
> This looks like a SQ speaker and subwoofer .... hopefully it keeps its volume through the Excurtion like a XBL should, the MK1 was not impressive for that aspect.... I want to push 70-100hz through this thing and get the full 14mm at 80hz. Which is a lot of movement for that frequency.


Looking forward to your listening tests...


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

For whatever reason, Dayton seems to favor huge mounting flanges, which cuts into sd a bit. I’d definitely go with the larger woofer. Edit- after checking specs it’s not as extreme on this, compared to the 6” rs150 the epique 5.5” has over 10% more cone area. Still hard to imagine getting much useable midbass out of 95 cm2 though.

QTS looks high enough to use in a door, so it’s a shame they don’t have an 8-10” version. Hopefully coming soon? Could be the zr800 replacement folks were looking for.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SQ_Bronco said:


> For whatever reason, Dayton seems to favor huge mounting flanges, which cuts into sd a bit. I’d definitely go with the larger woofer. Edit- after checking specs it’s not as extreme on this, compared to the 6” rs150 the epique 5.5” has over 10% more cone area. Still hard to imagine getting much useable midbass out of 95 cm2 though.
> 
> QTS looks high enough to use in a door, so it’s a shame they don’t have an 8-10” version. Hopefully coming soon? Could be the zr800 replacement folks were looking for.


I got the 7 inch version which I am expecting the same as a 6 1/2 car radio speaker

I couldn’t agree with you more I have the RS 180s 7 inch and it’s really a 6 with A bunch of metal on the edge

We’ll see what this one does I’m pretty excited 4 1/2 inches deep though might be tough sitting this in the door


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## blenton (Mar 1, 2018)

Ya, the Dayton mounting flange setup kinda drives me nuts sometimes. The 6" RS is more like a 3.5" woofer... That ginormous surround also eats in to the Sd but in some cases that's a worthy tradeoff.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

blenton said:


> Ya, the Dayton mounting flange setup kinda drives me nuts sometimes. The 6" RS is more like a 3.5" woofer... That ginormous surround also eats in to the Sd but in some cases that's a worthy tradeoff.


I love your exaggeration, unfortunately you’re not too far off lol


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## blenton (Mar 1, 2018)

Okay, okay, you got me. The driver measured at 3.75” not 3.5. 😜 It also explains why they can play in relatively smaller enclosures then other similar (nominal) size drivers.. haha. Not knocking Dayton, just poking some fun.


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## MF Toker (Jan 10, 2011)

Been looking at these as well, waiting for reviews to come in.


SQ_Bronco said:


> Still hard to imagine getting much useable midbass out of 95 cm2 though.


With a listed 14.7mm of xmax they have the displacement of a 6.5" with 11mm or and 8" with 6.5mm. Crossed at 70/80hz any of those drivers would likely reach thermal limits before over excursion.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

MF Toker said:


> Been looking at these as well, waiting for reviews to come in.
> 
> With a listed 14.7mm of xmax they have the displacement of a 6.5" with 11mm or and 8" with 6.5mm. Crossed at 70/80hz any of those drivers would likely reach thermal limits before over excursion.


Yeah if that’s the only parameters.... the XBL motor tho keep constant flux at the edge of the coil. So the power should* be converted to movement at least more efficiently.... but yeah, all could start to power compres and get hot. No way around it. On my current system I am like 2db from being flat at 75hz-90hz compared to my response curve. 

When I add power my 7” now bottoms out, and my 8” dynaudio no way I can push it to full power. It will definitely bottom out bad! It’s like a whimsy 4mm if I’m lucky...... 

So the plan is to keep the dyn playing flat and use my acoustical 80hz xo and for the new one have it play with linear 48db slope from 70-180hz and dump the power on them. 

Having zero phase shift filters sure opens things up..... I want my doors to get down. 
Right now they can almost get down, the little 6mm driver just needs a little more help. I’ll be more then double the x-max now. We’ll see  

I’m excited to try this little big guy


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

They come is NICE boxes , and they look amazing and dammmmmm these are huge!!! Super big and excellent quality, easily a 500$ set 

Right now for 124$ at 48% off it’s a dam steal 

This is a very impressive looking driver


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> They come is NICE boxes , and they look amazing and dammmmmm these are huge!!! Super big and excellent quality, easily a 500$ set
> 
> Right now for 124$ at 48% off it’s a dam steal
> 
> This is a very impressive looking driver


Hurry up and demo them!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Okay okay 

I’ll post up some pics tonite .... I have to re build my doors to accommodate them but I’m going to throw one on DATS and see how it measures with 200w and how quiet this motor is 

This would be a very good one for Erin h to check out and write up .... I see a lot of ppl wanting these


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Hugh sorry been busy 

I will get it done sorry gang 

There’s a guy on YouTube that talks a lot of trash about these drivers so just to be clear they are not XBL and they never claimed to be XBL 

So my mistake there is a whole new category of driver they call it the M mag

The guy on YouTube is obviously a subwoofer bass head, he makes fun of it because it plays into the mid range LOL OK so like let’s make fun of a 7 inch speaker that can play mid range and play some bass as well..... I should find his page and send you a link it’s pretty funny but I think it goes to say that there is already some misunderstandings about this driver I think it’s going to be good I can’t wait to try it my gut tells me it’s going to do everything I want to do in high Fidelity.


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)




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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Thomasluke7899 said:


>


that’s the one !! Thank you!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Here’s some pics

what a sexy looking driver

It looks like real carbon fiber with no coating , it doesn’t feel like fiberglass or Kevlar ..... I think it’s carbon fiber
But it might not be.... I’m not an expert at that , it feel very different then the focal fiberglass AC series , which is fiberglass, and it’s different then there Kevlar version ..... i think it’s legit carbon fiber.... it’s rigid yet you can bend it ...... idk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I can see little holes in the fabric. I put my lips against it and made out with them (kidding) I put my lips against the cone and I can blow air through the cone...... is that a bad thing?
Is there any speaker designers that can chime in and tell us if this is a bad thing?

(**** I just blew it with Andy from AF on another thread, I wish I wouldn’t have done that) would be great to get his input on this.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

You can see light coming through the cone , those are tiny holes


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

When you say you can bend it... bend it in what direction? Axially or circumferentially or both? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

daloudin said:


> When you say you can bend it... bend it in what direction? Axially or circumferentially or both?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


like with my fingers under the cone near the surround... if I press up the cone can bend witha little pressure , it doesn’t bend easily, but it does bend a little.


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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

The pics on PE's website show light coming through as well.


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

Guys....it's a woven cone. The fibers are woven together. 
Like a grass basket. Woven.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Thomasluke7899 said:


> Guys....it's a woven cone. The fibers are woven together.
> Like a grass basket. Woven.
> View attachment 309999


yeah that’s obvious. Lol ... I’m curious why it’s not woven tighter or have a coating/resin of some sort....

I’m sure it’s part of the design , I’m just curious why, and what effect does it have on the Q and noise in a sealed box perhaps


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

they likely used a minimum amount of epoxy resin to save weight to prevent any additional loss of efficiency due to a heavier cone. I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. See below pics of a scan 8554- one of the highest-regarded drivers. It’s a woven Kevlar driver. It passes light between the weaves and the cone bends a bit when direct pressure is applied.


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> yeah that’s obvious. Lol ... I’m curious why it’s not woven tighter or have a coating/resin of some sort....
> 
> I’m sure it’s part of the design , I’m just curious why, and what effect does it have on the Q and noise in a sealed box perhaps


If it was coated the description would then be woven and coated cone. Like a focal...polyglass??? Midbass. 
Also weight...the already undesirable sensitivity is an issue.
They look very cool though.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SQ_Bronco said:


> they likely used a minimum amount of epoxy resin to save weight to prevent any additional loss of efficiency due to a heavier cone. I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. See below pics of a scan 8554- one of the highest-regarded drivers. It’s a woven Kevlar driver. It passes light between the weaves and the cone bends a bit when direct pressure is applied.
> 
> View attachment 310039
> View attachment 310040


Yeah that scan is a perfect example , it passes light , bit can you literally put air through it.... I was able to blow air through the cone of this one.


Thomasluke7899 said:


> If it was coated the description would then be woven and coated cone. Like a focal...polyglass??? Midbass.
> Also weight...the already undesirable sensitivity is an issue.
> They look very cool though.


True .. I’ll have to get to fab and find out I suppose 




SQ_Bronco said:


> they likely used a minimum amount of epoxy resin to save weight to prevent any additional loss of efficiency due to a heavier cone. I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. See below pics of a scan 8554- one of the highest-regarded drivers. It’s a woven Kevlar driver. It passes light between the weaves and the cone bends a bit when direct pressure is applied.
> 
> View attachment 310039
> View attachment 310040


Yeah that scan is a perfect example , it passes light , bit can you literally put air through it.... I was able to blow air through the cone of this one. The light comes from literal pin sized holes.

does that scan have a coating that seals the holes


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

Yes, the scan has an epoxy resin coating. You can blow air through it but you have to blow really hard.

all “woven” cones should have some amount of epoxy resin added. The glass layer isn’t very strong without any resin at all.


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

Here’s an illusion nd-12. This one is carbon fiber. I can’t feel any air passing through this one.


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

Mpyre 6.5” had a thick layer of resin, can’t see through it.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Thank you for sharing that !!!!

I learned something new today that’s fantastic!!

that relieves a lot of wonder about this thing, OK I’m definitely going to do the install now I was just like why should I put 40 hours into my doors on a speaker that has holes in it ! Lol


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> Thank you for sharing that !!!!
> 
> I learned something new today that’s fantastic!!
> 
> that relieves a lot of wonder about this thing, OK I’m definitely going to do the install now I was just like why should I put 40 hours into my doors on a speaker that has holes in it ! Lol


At 4 inches deep...what are you putting these in?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Thomasluke7899 said:


> At 4 inches deep...what are you putting these in?


my Honda Fit front doors , want to play them from 0hz to 350hz

I also have dynaudio 72s in kicks that play to 80-350

and stevens 6.5s in a pillars that play from 250-1.4K

uptopia 3.5s and stevens tweeters in pillars also

sundown 18” SA sealed in back plays to80 now , hopefully I can let it play only to 45 if these do what I want
I hope for them to really make the front end have bass


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## MF Toker (Jan 10, 2011)

Are you going sealed or IB? These model great in only 0.2 cu ft or so. Dig lower than most all other "midbass" options I've considered for small sealed enclosures.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

The funny thing is I don’t need them, the car as is has pretty much as perfect phase as possible and even crossed at 80 the front midbass sound like they play to 40 because they couple with the sub so good... I’m just an intense person and want even more of that up front effect. And I also want to be able to drive them at 80hz with a boatload of power 

So I’m not sure how I’ll use them yet 

Either cross them at 70-80 and add a +6db boost at 80hz and let them play to 350 at normal power 

or

let them run as subs and midbass at normal power , this way will probably sound better ,..... I don’t know yet ..... we will see how it cooperates


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

MF Toker said:


> Are you going sealed or IB? These model great in only 0.2 cu ft or so. Dig lower than most all other "midbass" options I've considered for small sealed enclosures.


IB definitely! The 8s are in tiny ported but I need the doors to not have any artifacts

the kicks I’ve tuned all the artifacts out with fir filters but the flip side is they don’t take power down low.... they sound phenomenal, just can’t take more then 50w at 80hz

so IB for a non ringing midbass that can dig deep at full power


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> my Honda Fit front doors , want to play them from 0hz to 350hz
> 
> I also have dynaudio 72s in kicks that play to 80-350
> 
> ...


Well....that isn't what I was expecting but....6.5 inch apillars?


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## MF Toker (Jan 10, 2011)

Thomasluke7899 said:


> Well....that isn't what I was expecting but....6.5 inch apillars?


Assume he has them where the little window triangular window is. Have seen a few builds utilizing that space.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Thomasluke7899 said:


> Well....that isn't what I was expecting but....6.5 inch apillars?


full blown 3ways in the pillars  

and some


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

And I have 4 DSPs (one isn’t enough for me lol)


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

First time I saw a fit all I could think was stereos ..... I am more a Mercedes bmw driver , but I couldn’t resist the locations, so I found one with 6000mi on it and had to have it .... 

But surprisingly it doesn’t have very good acoustics ...... it’s good.... I’ve had other cars with better acoustics ..... I’ve overcome most of it tho...... just takes a lot of midbass drivers


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I put them in today

way better then I expected...
They boogie .... I can’t bottom them out with 700w on them. My car bumps with no sub.... it’s kinda weird having the doors pound this hard..... I’m afraid something will break but they don’t even have even faint wif of hot coil.... nothing .... they want to be punished


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> So I put them in today
> 
> way better then I expected...
> They boogie .... I can’t bottom them out with 700w on them. My car bumps with no sub.... it’s kinda weird having the doors pound this hard..... I’m afraid something will break but they don’t even have even faint wif of hot coil.... nothing .... they want to be punished
> View attachment 310466


Can't remember don't want to look....are those the 5 or 7 inch?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I put them in today

way better then I expected...
They boogie .... I can’t bottom them out with 700w on them. My car bumps with no sub.... it’s kinda weird having the doors pound this hard..... I’m afraid something will break but they don’t even have even faint wif of hot coil.... nothing .... they want to be punished


Thomasluke7899 said:


> Can't remember don't want to look....are those the 5 or 7 inch?


7”


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> So I put them in today
> 
> way better then I expected...
> They boogie .... I can’t bottom them out with 700w on them. My car bumps with no sub.... it’s kinda weird having the doors pound this hard..... I’m afraid something will break but they don’t even have even faint wif of hot coil.... nothing .... they want to be punished
> ...


Read this, if you haven't already, there may be some magnetic excursion limiting preventing those from bottoming.


http://www.redrockacoustics.com/low_reluctance_return_path_motors.pdf


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> Read this, if you haven't already, there may be some magnetic excursion limiting preventing those from bottoming.
> 
> 
> http://www.redrockacoustics.com/low_reluctance_return_path_motors.pdf


Thanks for sharing that!!!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I wonder if this top magnet is a “bucking magnet “ as that article explains (magnet of opposing polarity)

so I was just curious today I took a peq and did a 10db boost at 45hz and got it to make a little noise.... it wasn’t bottoming out noise more like the rubber surround was at its limit.... lol I basically did get some noise out of it , but it was ridiculously abusive conditions that most ppl would never want to try for music

My take away is , if someone can fit these , and wants the doors to play low , these should be looked at ...

But “playing low” which seems to be a big Concern amongst midbass buying , I don’t think is completely all about x-max and more about a normal speaker being tuned properly..... in the right conditions a 6mm driver should be plenty to keep up with a mid and a tweet 

these are great for not “having” to cross at 80 amd can be crossed at 70 or 60 and not bottom out......

once the bass gets into themid 50s a sub in the back makes the same exact bass and location is definitely not at all noticed so “front bass” isn’t really a thing

but the impact up front is nice and mesh’s with the highs in a way that’s really cool


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## DirtyBumOak510 (May 31, 2020)

The off axis response in the data sheets is almost as good as their 5". Seems like it's within a usable window up to 2khz where it starts falling off. I've been looking at a lot of off axis plots lately trying to find drivers that "break the laws of physics" in terms of SD and the speed of sound. These definitely look really good. It's just that 83db sensitivity that has me concerned.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> But “playing low” which seems to be a big Concern amongst midbass buying , I don’t think is completely all about x-max and more about a normal speaker being tuned properly..... in the right conditions a 6mm driver should be plenty to keep up with a mid and a tweet.


I think this is more about keeping up with loud subs than keeping up with mids and tweets, bridging the gap, at least for me it is.
And my pair came in today.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> I think this is more about keeping up with loud subs than keeping up with mids and tweets, bridging the gap, at least for me it is.
> And my pair came in today.


well said .... point made very well , yes I did not think of that, and your right that is a big deal..... this driver after a few days now really is growing on me.... it can flat boogie where the cone is moving quite a bit, and the 300hz range is still very transparent and accurate.... dam good driver .

I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this one

yeah she’s hungry.


DirtyBumOak510 said:


> The off axis response in the data sheets is almost as good as their 5". Seems like it's within a usable window up to 2khz where it starts falling off. I've been looking at a lot of off axis plots lately trying to find drivers that "break the laws of physics" in terms of SD and the speed of sound. These definitely look really good. It's just that 83db sensitivity that has me concerned.


Yeah she’s hungry for power... although in parallel wiring it seems to have better efficiency, not counting the power gain at 2ohms (4ch) compared to 8ohms (2ch bridged mode)

Luckily I have gobs of power at hand and it’s a non issue, they take power very well and I think the low sensitivity is only in the low bass.... it seems about 89db once it climbs past 120hz (speaker sitting on a desk no baffle 3’ 2.83v using DATS)


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> well said .... point made very well , yes I did not think of that, and your right that is a big deal..... this driver after a few days now really is growing on me.... it can flat boogie where the cone is moving quite a bit, and the 300hz range is still very transparent and accurate.... dam good driver .
> 
> I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this one
> 
> ...


I measured one with DATS last night, I'll post the results a bit later. The one I measured is currently getting broken in at home, I'll measure it tonight and post the results tomorrow.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

a


ckirocz28 said:


> I measured one with DATS last night, I'll post the results a bit later. The one I measured is currently getting broken in at home, I'll measure it tonight and post the results tomorrow.


Yeah im curious how your doing yours

I have only used my dats about 20x , and I am not using an Omni mic , I’ve been using a cm550 audio control mic

I’ve noticed some manufacturers post the highest peak as the sensitivity and not the average spl 

mine seem to measure with a lower Q as well (.41-.39)


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> a
> 
> 
> Yeah im curious how your doing yours
> ...


Here's the fresh out of the box measurements.
f(s)= 44.513 Hz
R(e)= 6.5122 Ohms
Z(max)= 49.769 Ohms
Q(ms)= 4.4883
Q(es)= 0.6757
Q(ts)= 0.58729
V(as)= 10.861 liters (0.38357 cubic feet)
L(e)= 1.6067 mH
n(0)= 0.13518 %
SPL= 83.409 1W/1m
M(ms)= 30.959 grams
C(ms)= 0.413 mm/N
BL= 9.1352 
K(r)= 2.8302 
X(r)= 0.14368 
K(i)= 0.0005873 
X(i)= 0.91981


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> Here's the fresh out of the box measurements.
> f(s)= 44.513 Hz
> R(e)= 6.5122 Ohms
> Z(max)= 49.769 Ohms
> ...


are you measurements of each coil individually or in series or parallel?
Mine are close but different, and looking at yours I’m not doing something right


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> are you measurements of each coil individually or in series or parallel?
> Mine are close but different, and looking at yours I’m not doing something right


Series, just like most manufacturers do it.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Here are the broken-in measurements, looks like it needed more excursion or time.

f(s)= 42.932 Hz
R(e)= 6.6502 Ohms
Z(max)= 45.979 Ohms
Q(ms)= 3.9691
Q(es)= 0.67114
Q(ts)= 0.57407
V(as)= 10.826 liters (0.3823 cubic feet)
L(e)= 1.6225 mH
n(0)= 0.1217 %
SPL= 82.953 1W/1m
M(ms)= 33.391 grams
C(ms)= 0.412 mm/N
BL= 9.4473 
K(r)= 2.8753 
X(r)= 0.14338 
K(i)= 0.0005886 
X(i)= 0.91977


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> Series, just like most manufacturers do it.


ahhh haaa I did not know that! I was doing it wrong

I give it a 2nd go at it


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

.55 by series
.54 by parallel
.91 each coil

Why the inconsistency between just running it for a week

I am not keen on dats or speaker measurements like this , I’m still learning, I’ve mostly just used it to find that actual impedance (ports especially).... not for ts stuff .... 

Will it change again in a week or month or whatever ?


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> .55 by series
> .54 by parallel
> .91 each coil
> 
> Why the inconsistency between just running it for a week


That is primarily when the time when the spider and surround get used to moving.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Thomasluke7899 said:


> That is primarily when the time when the spider and surround get used to moving.


i Never knew it changed that much.... dam ..... and I would have thought out of the box the Q would be higher then broke in ...... this is getting me curious I want to test all my drivers now

Definitely curious what chircokz28 thinks overall and performance is .....


----------



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> .55 by series
> .54 by parallel
> .91 each coil
> 
> ...


Qts?
DATS isn't 100% consistent either, it's close enough in most cases.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> i Never knew it changed that much.... dam ..... and I would have thought out of the box the Q would be higher then broke in ...... this is getting me curious I want to test all my drivers now
> 
> Definitely curious what chircokz28 thinks overall and performance is .....


Haven't had a chance to swap them in yet.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> Qts?
> DATS isn't 100% consistent either, it's close enough in most cases.


Yeah qts

running them in series was pretty damn close to yours... I had no idea breaking in really changed it that much.

But usually BL FS and QTS Give me at least an idea of what’s happening

but it really is nice to have every single parameter... especially the impedance measurements


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I may have to check these out but I have really good midbass drivers already. XBL drivers are not the most efficient but they have low distortion throughout their stroke usually. 

Belive it or not the JL C5 are really good misbass drivers. I love them in my truck.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

JCsAudio said:


> I may have to check these out but I have really good midbass drivers already. XBL drivers are not the most efficient but they have low distortion throughout their stroke usually.
> 
> Belive it or not the JL C5 are really good misbass drivers. I love them in my truck.


i did a JL system with c5s and it was just okay , he smoked his tweets and we put some AF tweets in and holy smokes it sounded great after that. That tiny tweet is definitely the pitfall of those

they do have very low distortion I’m hearing a lot of detail in the 150-400hz range that I couldn’t pick up before

so I would use this for sure with another midbass or in pairs as a 2nd driver with something of more efficiency if want to play loud (super loud) they get loud enough by themselves with good power on them.
it’s not a dealbreaker, the low sensitivity... It doesn’t seem like it’s that much quieter... and doesn’t the constant BL give it volume all the way through its excursion, that seems to make up for some of the losses as it’s not a peak efficiency but more dynamic efficiency...... I justam not hearing it be painfully inefficient. And that may also contribute to why I can hear excellent detail... I wonder what the gap width is on these. If I press on the cones edge it doesn’t scratch the coil... idk it’s a odd ball , but a cool speaker for sure


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

So I swapped the Dayton's in last night. They are about 3 db louder than the Anarchy's primarily because they don't bottom out, but I damn near let the magic smoke escape with 300 watts clipped, fortunately there was no damage, not even discoloration of the voice coil or leads, Edit: They have really good heat transfer to the magnet. They don't have quite as much impact as the Anarchy's, but with the Le being higher I would expect that. Now I need more clean power for them. I took some photos with the Anarchy's and without, for those that would like more detail than the website. By the way, they use the exact same basket as the Anarchy's.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Excellent!

what is your impression of overall SQ ?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> Excellent!
> 
> what is your impression of overall SQ ?


They are in my hatch running as subwoofers, I can't tell much about higher frequency sq right now, but they're pretty tight and clean as subs. I'll play around with them some more later this week, maybe in a 2 way config.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> Excellent!
> 
> what is your impression of overall SQ ?


By the way, that listening session above was 1 voice coil with 300 watts, they are louder with both coils driven in series with 150 watts.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I smelled hot coil today on one of mine 
Was bumping for a minute looking at my tweeters and smelled hot coil 

sounds fine and plays fine..... turned mine down


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> I smelled hot coil today on one of mine
> Was bumping for a minute looking at my tweeters and smelled hot coil
> 
> sounds fine and plays fine..... turned mine down


How much power and what xover(s)?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> How much power and what xover(s)?


175w to each coil and a 65hz BW18

the track I was playing had a lot of 90hz (ish) sounds.... and I will admit I had them up a lot


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Anytime I’ve ever smelled hot coil , I’ve replaced the driver because I’m sorta a stickler for having perfect working equipment.... 

Idk if I should ignore it and move on or order a new one.... just smelled hot coil for a second, still working fine..... do you think the sq is diminished at all?

i haven’t smelled that in my own car in years.....the Rest of the drivers are working effortlessly, it’s just this set I have working extra over duty....

anyway.... I’ve heard it’s just the “glue” getting hot and as long as it worksit should be fine ....

what really happens? Is there a burn on a voice coil? I need to run a measurement on it and look at what? Maybe Le:? If it has less inductance or what parameter would show damage to the coil ?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> Anytime I’ve ever smelled hot coil , I’ve replaced the driver because I’m sorta a stickler for having perfect working equipment....
> 
> Idk if I should ignore it and move on or order a new one.... just smelled hot coil for a second, still working fine..... do you think the sq is diminished at all?
> 
> ...


When I inspected mine after the smell, there was no discoloration anywhere, in a case like that there is no damage, just warm glue or lacquer.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> When I inspected mine after the smell, there was no discoloration anywhere, in a case like that there is no damage, just warm glue or lacquer.


Lacquer? Is that the anodizing that’s over the coil wire?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> Anytime I’ve ever smelled hot coil , I’ve replaced the driver because I’m sorta a stickler for having perfect working equipment....
> 
> Idk if I should ignore it and move on or order a new one.... just smelled hot coil for a second, still working fine..... do you think the sq is diminished at all?
> 
> ...


Damage to the coil would be indicated by a change in Re, Le would also change but Re can be checked much more easily. Too much heat damages the thin insulating lacquer on the voice coil windings thus causing a short.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> Damage to the coil would be indicated by a change in Re, Le would also change but Re can be checked much more easily. Too much heat damages the thin insulating lacquer on the voice coil windings thus causing a short.


ah ..... okay okay I see... thank you...

I turned it down and played same song same level and it’s fine now.... just turned 80hz from +6db to +2db on eq

(the eq i have upstream is -6db at 80 that’s why I was +6db)


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Took it out , it measures the same.... (mostly) every time is slightly different of course


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Different measurements may look like something is happening but what's more important to pay attention to is the fs/Qts ratio.... guess what? Pretty much remains the same which means enclosures remain unchanged. 

Break-in isn't what most think it is for... the loosening of soft parts etc. It's actually done by pros to make sure the driver is operating correctly... no flaws like rub & buzz before testing & building begins. Imagine building a box for a driver that has erroneous results from some flaw in manufacturing. 



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Bayboy said:


> Different measurements may look like something is happening but what's more important to pay attention to is the fs/Qts ratio.... guess what? Pretty much remains the same which means enclosures remain unchanged.
> 
> Break-in isn't what most think it is for... the loosening of soft parts etc. It's actually done by pros to make sure the driver is operating correctly... no flaws like rub & buzz before testing & building begins. Imagine building a box for a driver that has erroneous results from some flaw in manufacturing.
> 
> ...


now you got me doubting breaking again, and that’s what my mindset was for a long time but honestly when I opened this driver at brand new it measured way different then after a week of use

qts was like .43 or something I can’t remember now and it raised to .55 ish (again I can’t remember the exact numbers)

but you get the idea....

and then I smelled hot coil the other day when I was pushing the system way more than I usually do making a video for some tweeters and I remeasured and it’s still good so I don’t think I damaged it cause I think I just heated it up which still scares me because anytime in the past when I’ve smelled hot coil I’ve always just replaced the driver just in case which I think I’m still going to do

I was putting a lot of power to it thinking it could handle it and it was going to be fine but I’m pretty sure it was the 90Hz area that was turned up just a little bit too much that freaked it out


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The numbers will shift, but the ratio still remains. That's what matters. The most drastic variation you'll see in testing is manufacturer specs vs tested. 

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So this speaker is overall very good....
the SQ is fantastic, takes abuse, plays well.... I’m very pleased ... a lot of us have been waiting for this driver, the anarchy seems good also (I never had one) this one I can say really likes to move a lot of excursion....

I have 350w going to each speaker, using a alpine XA70f amp to the pair.... I did 175w to each coil in parallel wiring

now I’m using the coils series and bridge the amp 8ohms bridge gives me 240w going to each speaker in series wiring

now using a tiny bit less powerI bumped back up the boost on my EQs to push 80-130hz back to +5db and played it full send and no hot coil.... it’s lovin it.

I’m still getting the same amount of output as I was with 175w per coil , it seems a little bit cleaner this way, I don’t think it’s the speaker but it’s the way my amp likes to play with this speaker....

I think the damping on the amp almost doubles at 8ohm bridged, which is better control over the signal....if I remember correctly someone from alpine was telling me the damping on the X amps are as good as an AB, and the higher resistance per output rail doublesit (or something I honestly can’t remember exactly, it was a sales rep that was talking about the X amps when they came out)

maybe that has something to do with it , idk ..... this one seems to really be happy at 120w a coil... (which is still a **** ton for a speaker)

overall I would absolutely recommend this driver if you are tired of bottoming out midbass...

MAYBE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME WITH THIs QUESTION;

why is it my dynaudio MW172s say it can do 9mm linear xmax but it bottoms out so easily? The surround is tiny,it’s like the surround just by looks says it’s a 6mm driver.... what’s up with that ? Does dynaudio fudge theNumbers ? Has anyone else had issues with dynaudio bottoming out?

I have a focal 8wm that has 5.5mm linear xmax and it doesn’t bottom out.... I don’t understand this so much


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

oabeieo said:


> So this speaker is overall very good....
> the SQ is fantastic, takes abuse, plays well.... I’m very pleased ... a lot of us have been waiting for this driver, the anarchy seems good also (I never had one) this one I can say really likes to move a lot of excursion....
> 
> I have 350w going to each speaker, using a alpine XA70f amp to the pair.... I did 175w to each coil in parallel wiring
> ...


Erin measured one way xmax @ 3.3mm! That's why they are bottoming out. Link:






Dyn Audio MW172 8-Inch Mid/Woofer Review


Dyn Audio MW172 8-Inch Mid/Woofer Review




www.erinsaudiocorner.com


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

DaveG said:


> Erin measured one way xmax @ 3.3mm! That's why they are bottoming out. Link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


reading it now thank you


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Aah ..... okay that helped a lot!

now it makes sense..... dam Erin is very good at that.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Well, I lightly fried one of mine today, after getting some measurements and testing them in a 2-way setup. They do really well in a 2-way crossed at 2500 hz. I matched them up with my CSS Audio LD25X's, that pairing was super clean and clear, until I decided to turn up the gain. They have a hair trigger on the magic smoke release when encountering clipping, this time was with 160-ish watts clipped. Anyway, here are the measurements of the Daytons only, in car.
The weirdness in the middle is likely because the left speaker was peeking over an amplifier.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Awe dang it!!! Get a new one!

that’s sweet.... I changed mine to play completely as subs to 150hz


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

oabeieo said:


> Awe dang it!!! Get a new one!
> 
> that’s sweet.... I changed mine to play completely as subs to 150hz


Already ordered!
What do you think of them as subs?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Seems to me the 7" would be good as a front located sub though I do question the airspace requirements vs other options. After all, the Epique aren't shallow mount. If it could be tucked away in the center console firing forward like in GM trucks/SUVs, or perhaps underneath the passenger side dash. 

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> Seems to me the 7" would be good as a front located sub though I do question the airspace requirements vs other options. After all, the Epique aren't shallow mount. If it could be tucked away in the center console firing forward like in GM trucks/SUVs, or perhaps underneath the passenger side dash.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


Airspace requirements? They only need 0.25 cubic feet each, that's barely larger than the motor, which is quite large. Compare with the Anarchy 704's that need 0.17 cubic feet each, or any other 6.5-7 inch that needs at least 0.5 cubic feet each.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

They would be excellent as a up front sub.

Absolutely.... I’m running mine all the way down , it’s sounding excellent... tons of bass


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

ckirocz28 said:


> Airspace requirements? They only need 0.25 cubic feet each, that's barely larger than the motor, which is quite large. Compare with the Anarchy 704's that need 0.17 cubic feet each, or any other 6.5-7 inch that needs at least 0.5 cubic feet each.


Compare that with the HO 10" that models ideal in .25-.3 cuft .. so yeah, if you can stuff the Epique just going by airspace alone, there could be other options. It's a matter of overall footprint 

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> Compare that with the HO 10" that models ideal in .25-.3 cuft .. so yeah, if you can stuff the Epique just going by airspace alone, there could be other options. It's a matter of overall footprint
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


Yeah, I'd rather run a 12" midbass/sub in that airspace, but that's at least $500 more plus carving out a 12" circle somewhere up front.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The vented airspace seems a bit much (.8 cu ft). That size enclosure isn't so stealthy. Keep in mind that the ported Bose sub used in many GM center consoles isn't all that fancy, but designed well enough to take advantage of such a small space. I wish I had the DATS when working on one. 

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Airspace requirements? They only need 0.25 cubic feet each, that's barely larger than the motor, which is quite large. Compare with the Anarchy 704's that need 0.17 cubic feet each, or any other 6.5-7 inch that needs at least 0.5 cubic feet each.


It can’t be barely bigger than the motor, you need space in the enclosure for the motor plus 7l minimum, so approx 8-9l if it’s a big motor on the rear if not a touch more

modelling 6.5-7” drivers they all required 7-10l when I played with lots and modelled them with a Q=0.707


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

dumdum said:


> It can’t be barely bigger than the motor, you need space in the enclosure for the motor plus 7l minimum, so approx 8-9l if it’s a big motor on the rear if not a touch more
> 
> modelling 6.5-7” drivers they all required 7-10l when I played with lots and modelled them with a Q=0.707


Assuming a square or rectangular box, the majority of the volume will be in the corners of the box with the next largest amount spread throughout the basket, the volume in the corners increases quite quickly when depth or width or both are increased, so "barely" actually works.
Or you could NOT take an imprecise term literally.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Yeah I can’t see them taking much.... 
I would be more concerned about fitness then a box size 

mine are playing IB so it’s QTC is the speakers QTS for the most part... so .57 isn’t too low.... it’s got some transients left and obviously plays stupid low.

it has enough BL to throw enough power atit to sorta force it to be transient as well.... I haven't noticed the bass not very sharp.... it sounds great to me.....

Although I think my door cavity probably does raise the Q just enough to get it to .6 or even .65.... I stuffed poly all around the motor to protect it from elements and slow the air down a tiny bit..... I might have made it to .7.....

IDK, all I knows is I don’t need a box.... the doors bump


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

dumdum said:


> modelling 6.5-7” drivers they all required 7-10l when I played with lots and modelled them with a Q=0.707


you should be able to successfully run a midbass driver Q much higher than .7 though since you’re probably handing it off to the sub well before the steeper rolloff matters, and the peakiness from the enclosure actually gives you a db or two of extra output right in the middle of the range where you need it (~80-120 hz).

0.9 is a good starting point but even 1.0+ is probably ok.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SQ_Bronco said:


> you should be able to successfully run a midbass driver Q much higher than .7 though since you’re probably handing it off to the sub well before the steeper rolloff matters, and the peakiness from the enclosure actually gives you a db or two of extra output right in the middle of the range where you need it (~80-120 hz).
> 
> 0.9 is a good starting point but even 1.0+ is probably ok.


Absolutely this.^


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SQ_Bronco said:


> you should be able to successfully run a midbass driver Q much higher than .7 though since you’re probably handing it off to the sub well before the steeper rolloff matters, and the peakiness from the enclosure actually gives you a db or two of extra output right in the middle of the range where you need it (~80-120 hz).
> 
> 0.9 is a good starting point but even 1.0+ is probably ok.


.9 is kinda a favorite of mine
Responsive as hell and still digs without stupid phase shift from the box and ringing


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Soooo..... using as a sub or a midbass? I'm getting lost in the sauce here. I was referring to it being an upfront sub.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Bayboy said:


> Soooo..... using as a sub or a midbass? I'm getting lost in the sauce here. I was referring to it being an upfront sub.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


Referring to 0.9 and higher Qtc, using as a midbass.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Yeah it plays super strong in the 50s also 

this is such a good speaker for matching to subs..... very very versatile and lets you pound on it

although I have been learning somethings and that Xmax and travel isn’t quite super important as so much as having good acoustics is.....

a 1mm xmax speaker with complete reinforcement will whomp on a 28mm speaker all day long if the 28mm speaker is in bad acoustics and having any cancellations in the desired response

so Be aware any buyers, brute force won’t get u much , I got a 1db gain (I was hoping for 2) and I am throttling the snot out of them playing hard into a dip....... 
1db ..... and once I’m past 100db total SPL that 1db goes away completely 

the harder I push the worse the null becomes , but below the dip , holy smokes!!! It frikking flat out bumps


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I’ve throttled back my E180s , and took the HPF off (again) much better phase response. Better , just better , I’m doing 175w now , ist Gut! Sehr Gut! Ich Leib Lautsprecher ein bisschen.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

what type enclosure you use with this driver for best results


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

oabeieo said:


> Yeah it plays super strong in the 50s also
> 
> this is such a good speaker for matching to subs..... very very versatile and lets you pound on it
> 
> ...


This happens because although the dip is there and you hear it. The speaker is still playing it with same amount of wattage as everything else. 
The dip is caused by the room. So the more of that sound you add to the room the bigger the dip gets. 
Until you burn the coil up on woofer.lol


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## Thomasluke7899 (Jan 4, 2020)

Porsche said:


> what type enclosure you use with this driver for best results


Small sealed. Not much bigger than. The magnet


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Porsche said:


> what type enclosure you use with this driver for best results


small sealed is good , I’m doing IB with good results, (sealed and IB are the same thing) sealed will raise the Q , with. Q of .55 it will play low , with moderate transient response.....

IB (doors) works just fine, and plays to DC 

if you want it to play above 65hz ish and have absolutely to die for transients, a small sealed will be nice , however itWILL color the sound amd ring , somewhere, probably most likely between 100-150hz

Not a horrible spot for ringing , eq can tame, and still sound quite nice with a big fat eq cut in the peak .......

min using mine into the 300s, so IB is choice. No artifacts. Plays low, a little weak in the transient response in the 60-90hz area , but by no means soggy. Throw a speaker that has a Q around .4 or lower and you will have a soggy ass transient response IB (but dam it wil play low as hell)


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## lukas_henchman (Dec 20, 2021)

lol


oabeieo said:


> The XBL/2 motor looks promising. 14mm linear looks appetizing.
> 
> I want some thing that puts out a ton of sound at 80 Hz. That can really pump amd take abuse..
> 
> ...


this


oabeieo said:


> I want some thing that puts out a ton of sound at 80 Hz. That can really pump amd take abuse..


 the sensitivity of this subwoofer is 83, it wont pump 80+ hz unless you build a small box, it will pump 35-60hz solid... this speaker is not for mid frequencies, it's suited for low frequencies only, that's the whole point of this subwoofer, small subwoofer making big bass because of the high xmax, i have a very similar subwoofer parameters wise, 13mm xmax. 6.5 inch , low 83db sensitivity, the upper bass is kinda weak after 80hz, in a 35hz box, you can always make a 6th order box to boost those upper frequencies 80-100hz but im not sure how good it would be


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

lukas_henchman said:


> lol
> 
> this
> 
> the sensitivity of this subwoofer is 83, it wont pump 80+ hz unless you build a small box, it will pump 35-60hz solid... this speaker is not for mid frequencies, it's suited for low frequencies only, that's the whole point of this subwoofer, small subwoofer making big bass because of the high xmax, i have a very similar subwoofer parameters wise, 13mm xmax. 6.5 inch , low 83db sensitivity, the upper bass is kinda weak after 80hz, in a 35hz box, you can always make a 6th order box to boost those upper frequencies 80-100hz but im not sure how good it would be



sorry you think that .


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## blenton (Mar 1, 2018)

lukas_henchman said:


> lol
> 
> this
> 
> the sensitivity of this subwoofer is 83, it wont pump 80+ hz unless you build a small box, it will pump 35-60hz solid... this speaker is not for mid frequencies, it's suited for low frequencies only, that's the whole point of this subwoofer, small subwoofer making big bass because of the high xmax, i have a very similar subwoofer parameters wise, 13mm xmax. 6.5 inch , low 83db sensitivity, the upper bass is kinda weak after 80hz, in a 35hz box, you can always make a 6th order box to boost those upper frequencies 80-100hz but im not sure how good it would be



I am also sorry you think that...

Loudspeaker motor design has come a long way; it is the major focus of pretty much any real driver. The motor design on these Epique drivers is quite different than a traditional run of the mill coil and magnet. I've listened to both the 7" and 5.5" epiques and they are nothing short of astonishing. The 5.5" is currently mated to a Peerless corundum crossed around 3k 2nd order in a home audio application with dual passive radiators with less than +-2db from 50-17000hz. The epique doesn't even flinch and WOW does it sound good. 

I had the 7" epique in .6 cu ft vented in the back of my truck on 300 watts RMS for some time and, again, it sounds amazing. Deep, clean, smooth response. A single 7 isn't going to outperform a 10 or a 12 in the SPL department, but it sure takes a beating and smiles. I was able to lift the Xover on my subs to 150hz without any ill effect so, yes, they play just fine outside fo the 35-60hz range. Plans are to try and mate it to the same corundum tweeter and see what happens.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

lukas_henchman said:


> lol
> 
> this
> 
> the sensitivity of this subwoofer is 83, it wont pump 80+ hz unless you build a small box, it will pump 35-60hz solid... this speaker is not for mid frequencies, it's suited for low frequencies only, that's the whole point of this subwoofer, small subwoofer making big bass because of the high xmax, i have a very similar subwoofer parameters wise, 13mm xmax. 6.5 inch , low 83db sensitivity, the upper bass is kinda weak after 80hz, in a 35hz box, you can always make a 6th order box to boost those upper frequencies 80-100hz but im not sure how good it would be


The whole point of the Epique speakers is that they were originally designing small subwoofers but the design only needed a little tweaking to make them into spectacular midbasses that play really low and high enough to blend with a tweeter in a 2-way system.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SQ_Bronco said:


> you should be able to successfully run a midbass driver Q much higher than .7 though since you’re probably handing it off to the sub well before the steeper rolloff matters, and the peakiness from the enclosure actually gives you a db or two of extra output right in the middle of the range where you need it (~80-120 hz).
> 
> 0.9 is a good starting point but even 1.0+ is probably ok.


Absolutely agree, and my friend there’s one thing if I can add….

Be careful as to not go too high of a Q. (1.7-+) at low frequencies as it will make it spitty and garble sounding in its peak with very few watts. 

You cram that thing into absolutely no airspace at all and it will push anything good ito the upper octaves. You need a speakers Q in the .2s to be able to do that and still play down to 100 even at full power. 

Pretty much as it gets close to 90hz, the enclosure simply needs to be bigger, especially by 80hz you need something bigger then just the magnet can fit in. 
Like QTC , .9-1.2 ish then we can boogie down to 45hz at full power just fine


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

6mo into these now, these are stellar drivers.

I’ve beaten them to a pulp and ran them moderate power. 

I have them crossed at 65hz right now with 175w in parallel 2ohm. They move a lot and blend to the sub so nice.

My sub has about 12db of gain below 65 , so instead of eq out all the room gain, I use this driver as a blend. And my kick panel midbass to 80. I have the kick turned down -3db and the door picks up and makes things flat with a small tilt under 250hz. 

It’s not very efficient under 100hz in IB…. Above 100hz it seems about 2db more efficient. Seems it works as a midbass or even midrange just fine at about 87db. 

It pounds so hard in the doors my window regulators have become a little loose. I will probably be doing an enclosure variant this spring.


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