# What's the last of good old school amps?



## bird333 (May 28, 2008)

Inspired by the PPI thread. I am wondering what you guys consider the last best series of other old school amps like RF or any others. I am trying to get educated.


----------



## patch2361 (Jun 15, 2009)

Alpine mrp still hang tuff


----------



## tomtomjr (Apr 24, 2008)

Linear Power, Zapco, RF, US Amps, Orion, ect. Pretty much anything pre-94. After that, a lot of companies went overseas for the build and assembly of amps.


----------



## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

I like the PH and PQ series a/d/s/ stuff, any Monolithic stuff, D7 series Diamond Audio stuff, the series VII and VIII HiFonics stuff, the older PA series Nakamichi stuff, Orion HCCA stuff, and I've still got a soft spot for PMA series Alphasonic stuff.

There are others but those come to mind pretty quick.


----------



## tomtomjr (Apr 24, 2008)

TREETOP said:


> I like the PH and PQ series a/d/s/ stuff, any Monolithic stuff, D7 series Diamond Audio stuff, the series VII and VIII HiFonics stuff, the older PA series Nakamichi stuff, Orion HCCA stuff, and I've still got a soft spot for PMA series Alphasonic stuff.
> 
> There are others but those come to mind pretty quick.


VIII was the best Hifonics IMO. At least from a tech standpoint. Easy to work on. PA Nak's, good amps. A pain to work on. Super clean. Orion 1st gen, easy to work on but burn easy at low voltage. 2nd gen Orion are harder to work on, but a much better amp. 


Hey Treetop, I can sure use that MC4000M and that HK91 in your Avatar. Any interest in letting them go to a good home?



.


----------



## sublime_ac (Jun 30, 2009)

I really like the Zapco Studio series amps....RF Punch was always brutally powerful.. I remember a system being run off a single punch 45 @ .5 ohm... Not sure how it didn't thermal not stop but it worked.

Linear Power is also a brutally powerful amp.. The cool thing about them is the T03 series are fairly small, non-descript, great SQ and awesome power..


----------



## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

TREETOP said:


> I like the PH and PQ series a/d/s/ stuff, any Monolithic stuff, D7 series Diamond Audio stuff, the series VII and VIII HiFonics stuff, the older PA series Nakamichi stuff, Orion HCCA stuff, and I've still got a soft spot for PMA series Alphasonic stuff.
> 
> There are others but those come to mind pretty quick.


The Nak PA 150/200/300/350/400 were the best made by Nak ...once they became "Zed" amps the performance / SQ was slipping.

>^..^<


----------



## jstoner22 (Jun 30, 2009)

pretty much what everyone is saying, orion, hifonics, and alpine

i love my old Alpine 3566 ...and that thing has to be going on 17 years now?


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

Let's not forget old Soundstream: Class A series, Original D series, DII Series, and the MC series.


----------



## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

a/d/s power plates were cool. I had one but I felt that they did not put out that much output. Power was clean though.


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

Catman said:


> The Nak PA 150/200/300/350/400 were the best made by Nak ...once they became "Zed" amps the performance / SQ was slipping.
> 
> >^..^<


That Nak Series shared the same color scheme as the Nak Home equipment, which some of you know know used Stasis circuitry (Nelson Pass) in their Home Amps and Receivers. Any confirmation this trickled down in mobile? How about the transitional PA304/PA302?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm no expert but it's on my noggin because a friend has a 600.2 I might buy... Phoenix Gold Titanium? Your thoughts??

Example pic:


----------



## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

Babs said:


> I'm no expert but it's on my noggin because a friend has a 600.2 I might buy... Phoenix Gold Titanium? Your thoughts??
> 
> Example pic:


I had the exact same amp before and it was really nice. If the price is good I would jump on it.


----------



## PUREAUDIO (Jun 16, 2008)

Man i love old school amps, i still have my Lanzar Optidrive 500TMS (2x500w) i bought new back in 95. The only amp i know that is still made like trhe old school stuff is Lunar Amplifiers, man i love thoughs amps.


----------



## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

tomtomjr said:


> Hey Treetop, I can sure use that MC4000M and that HK91 in your Avatar. Any interest in letting them go to a good home?


Whoops I just now saw this. Unfortunately I don't have either one of the items in my avatar pic anymore. I've got plenty of amps and plenty of rifles still, but not those ones.


----------



## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

some of my favorite old schoolers are:
Soundstream Reference Class A Picasso
" Class A 10.0
" Class A 5.0
" DaVinci
Rockford Fosgate Punch 45HD
 " 100HD
" 100dsm
Xtant 3150c
Xtant 2200
Xtant X604
Xtant 1001xd
MTX 225HO
MTX Blue Thunder 500D first gen
Eclipse 3242
Kenwood KAC-1023
" KAC-823
" KAC-943
Alpine MRV-F1507
Orion 225 HCCA 
Old ADS Power Plate 6ch.


----------



## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

E. coli said:


> That Nak Series shared the same color scheme as the Nak Home equipment, which some of you know know used Stasis circuitry (Nelson Pass) in their Home Amps and Receivers. Any confirmation this trickled down in mobile? How about the transitional PA304/PA302?


None of the STASIS technology trickled down to the car lines. The STASIS receivers were actually around after the classic car line. IIRC the car line came about in the early / mid 80's ...the STASIS line of home equipment came about a few years later in the late 80's. FWIW ...my stash of this series of home equipment almost equals my stash of Nak car audio. I even have a STASIS receiver powering a set of B&W's for my computer audio system. There is a STASIS receiver in every bedroom too. 

Once the amps became 'silver' (Zed) the performance was not up to what the earlier ones was.

>^..^<


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

patch2361 said:


> Alpine mrp still hang tuff


.


typo *MRV*.. until 2003

Rob


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

bird333 said:


> Inspired by the PPI thread. I am wondering what you guys consider the last best series of other old school amps like RF or any others. I am trying to get educated.


RF *ever* competed in the SQ category of amplifiers? LOL I know I will get **** about that... 

Rob


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

sublime_ac said:


> I really like the Zapco Studio series amps....RF Punch was always brutally powerful.. I remember a system being run off a single punch 45 @ .5 ohm... Not sure how it didn't thermal not stop but it worked.
> 
> Linear Power is also a brutally powerful amp.. The cool thing about them is the T03 series are fairly small, non-descript, great SQ and awesome power..




RF brutally POWERFULL.. but did it ever sound good? or even well, or even well mannered?

sorry... RF & SQ are an oxymoron...

Rob


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

slomofo said:


> some of my favorite old schoolers are:
> Soundstream Reference Class A Picasso
> " Class A 10.0
> " Class A 5.0
> ...


WOW! that's a dyslectic list of "SQ" amps...... 

Rob


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

Catman said:


> None of ......
> 
> Once the amps became 'silver' (Zed) the performance was not up to what the earlier ones was.
> 
> >^..^<


THERE is the OS winner ZED... or original Phoenix or REAL Soundstream, or REAL OS PPI/MTX or Onion.. er... Orion....

Zapco has been a perennial favorite, Linear Power is the Godfather of OS Soul, 

Let's not forget the unsung heros.. Alphasonik/US Acoustics, Alpine 355-Series, Kenwood KAC's {yes I went there!) back in the day... 

Pick a year.. pick an era... there are shining stars in the amplifier lines...

Rob


----------



## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

TXwrxWagon said:


> WOW! that's a dyslectic list of "SQ" amps......
> 
> Rob


Rob, that is not how you spell "dyslexic".
he asked for amps that were the last of the good old school amps. says it right there in the title. he didn't say strictly sound q so i threw in some others that were really good power makers like the mtx bt500d. yeah, i know i didn't put any Zed built stuff on there but that wasn't the "complete and authoritative list of be all and end all amps" just ones that i sold and dealt with over the years. if i had dealt with Sinfoni or Tru or Zapco I would put some of those on there.
and to whoever said that RF amps couldn't do sound Q, sure they weren't built for that but i scored a 34 on the RTA with an older RF400.4 running 4 6.5" fanatic q's 80-200hz off the rear channels, 2 fanatic q 5.25's 100hz-up in the kicks off the front channels, and 3 punch dvc 10's running off a 250.2 and it would do 138db. amps have something to do with SQ too. by the way, that was my baseline score with everything set flat, no eq, just out of the box with gains adjusted. sure speakers play the biggest role but we all know that there are amps out there that process things differently than others like a bump at 45hz for example.


----------



## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

For sound quality purposes, Butler Tube Amps are probably a bit better now than they were "back in the day". JL Audio(distant step-child of old PPI) seems to be pretty well built but, you had better buy from a dealer or the warranty is useless.
Among the old school stuff I have used, the PPI Power Class series was pretty good. Orion "R" series was the last good HCCA stuff and Rockford 25 To Life series is ok.


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

Catman said:


> None of the STASIS technology trickled down to the car lines. The STASIS receivers were actually around after the classic car line. IIRC the car line came about in the early / mid 80's ...the STASIS line of home equipment came about a few years later in the late 80's. FWIW ...my stash of this series of home equipment almost equals my stash of Nak car audio. I even have a STASIS receiver powering a set of B&W's for my computer audio system. There is a STASIS receiver in every bedroom too.
> 
> Once the amps became 'silver' (Zed) the performance was not up to what the earlier ones was.
> 
> >^..^<



Thanks for the info! Like you I also have accumulated a stash of Nak Home stuff ( TA4A, TA3 Japanese version, TA2A, CR2A, (2) CDC3-A)- great stuff! Unfortunately when I transitioned from stereo to HT, I've had them storage- I'll probably take your idea and perhaps set-up a "stereo" in the office. 

As for the PA304/PA302 which are the first new "silver" amps, I think and believe these were transitional and pre ZED due to the fact they were made in Japan and Taiwan. Weren't the Nak ZEDs made in USA when they first started? Can anyone confirm this, thanks!


----------



## an2ny888 (Jun 27, 2008)

i have one of those pa304 that were made in taiwan, they were a PITA to work on


----------



## avences (Jan 23, 2009)

kenwood's series 20, 21 and 23....they rock!!!!!!

I love my KAC-923, right know "installed" in my office with and alpine CDA-7990 runing a pair of altec lansing 6x9...LOOOOOOOOOVE IT!!!!!!!


----------



## tdiantonio (May 8, 2007)

you have all brought up some excellent choices...for me I have decided to go back to old school a/d/s/ (ph15) ...

also what about the van gogh series from soundstream or is that still considered too new for old school


----------



## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

tdiantonio said:


> also what about the van gogh series from soundstream or is that still considered too new for old school


No where close to being old school. OTOH they are a great buy in a very nice amp if you can find them ...I have a few ...as well as a few of the TRA series Tarantulas.

>^..^<


----------



## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

E. coli said:


> As for the PA304/PA302 which are the first new "silver" amps, I think and believe these were transitional and pre ZED due to the fact they were made in Japan and Taiwan. Weren't the Nak ZEDs made in USA when they first started? Can anyone confirm this, thanks!


IIRC Nak was never made in the USA.

>^..^<


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

Catman said:


> IIRC Nak was never made in the USA.
> 
> >^..^<


----------



## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

E. coli said:


>


PHOTOSHOP. 

Just kidding. oke:

Thanks ...I learned something today. That explains why the SQ went down.  I've been a Nakaphile for 25 years and didn't know that. Can I keep / use a copy of those pix? I've been hoping to put together a thorough record / website of the history of Nak car audio ...not for profit ...just info to help the masses.

>^..^<


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

Catman said:


> PHOTOSHOP.
> 
> Just kidding. oke:
> 
> ...


No worries, I was surprised as well when I found out. I actually lifted the pic from:

Nakamichi PA-504

I think it's very cool of you to put together the info for everyone. Good luck!


----------



## nirschl (Apr 30, 2009)

E. coli said:


> Thanks for the info! Like you I also have accumulated a stash of Nak Home stuff ( TA4A, TA3 Japanese version, TA2A, CR2A, (2) CDC3-A)- great stuff! Unfortunately when I transitioned from stereo to HT, I've had them storage- I'll probably take your idea and perhaps set-up a "stereo" in the office.
> 
> As for the PA304/PA302 which are the first new "silver" amps, I think and believe these were transitional and pre ZED due to the fact they were made in Japan and Taiwan. Weren't the Nak ZEDs made in USA when they first started? Can anyone confirm this, thanks!


I think you are correct sir. The PA 202,302,304,301 etc... and following "s" series were all made in Japan I believe. Atleast, the 5 or so I have were. They are more of a charcoal grey/silver I guess. These really are clean sounding amps. Not tons of power but just nice "clean" power. 

It was my understanding that the series which followed these were made in the US. The larger "brighter" silver ones. Like the PA502, 504 etc...


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

nirschl said:


> I think you are correct sir. The PA 202,302,304,301 etc... and following "s" series were all made in Japan I believe. Atleast, the 5 or so I have were. They are more of a charcoal grey/silver I guess. These really are clean sounding amps. Not tons of power but just nice "clean" power.
> 
> It was my understanding that the series which followed these were made in the US. The larger "brighter" silver ones. Like the PA502, 504 etc...


Thank you for the follow-up. I have a 304 that I am hoping will be enough power to make my recently acquired Morel 6 Elate sing- I'm scheduled to have them installed later this week.


----------



## linkage8822 (Aug 31, 2008)

E. coli said:


> Thank you for the follow-up. I have a 304 that I am hoping will be enough power to make my recently acquired Morel 6 Elate sing- I'm scheduled to have them installed later this week.


I think the as a front stage amp is where these amps will shine. Let us know what you think after the install!


----------



## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

Catman said:


> PHOTOSHOP.
> 
> Just kidding. oke:
> 
> ...


The mid 90's MHE1012DV subs were Made In the USA as well (and very rare). I'll post picks in the OS thread when I get my amps back from the shop.


----------



## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

TXwrxWagon said:


> RF brutally POWERFULL.. but did it ever sound good? or even well, or even well mannered?
> 
> sorry... RF & SQ are an oxymoron...
> 
> Rob


Highly disagree. I've heard plenty of excellent sounding RF setups, a few of which were sq competitors. 



Catman said:


> The Nak PA 150/200/300/350/400 were the best made by Nak ...once they became "Zed" amps the performance / SQ was slipping.
> 
> >^..^<


I was always under the impression that the opposite was true. General consensus was that the japanese built amps were "weak" and lacked substance, while the Zed built Nak's were more robust. 


OP, ask that question of 100 different people, and you'll get 100 different answers. 


Up on my list are the current TRU billets, PPI Arts, Orion HCCA's, Soundstream Reference/Rubicon USA built stuff (and everything earlier), and the Zed built ESX amps.


----------



## E. coli (Jan 10, 2009)

linkage8822 said:


> I think the as a front stage amp is where these amps will shine. Let us know what you think after the install!


Very happy with the pairing of the two, the Nak 304 is one clean and warm amp ( reminds of the TA/PA Home stuff Nak use to produce). The Elates played loud can clear no breaking up matter of fact the Morels were not even phased with 90X2- they could probably handle a bit more with ease. Nonetheless I am very pleased with the set-up!


----------

