# Orion Concept 97.3 Amp Info



## bigdwiz

I'm hoping there are some Orion dealers or employees or anyone else who's in the know about these amps. As you may have seen in other posts, I recently came across a pair of these amps (see pics below). I've been unable to find much info about the amps excluding the manual and an article in AS&S in 1998. None of my car stereo directories have the 97.3 listed (as the 97.1 and 97.2 are). Does anyone know if these were only available to dealers? Anyone recall MSRP? In the event anyone has literature or any more printed info on these amps, I would GREATLY appreciate a scan 

I appreciate all comments, but would prefer to have verified facts instead of "I think....". I'm putting together a video on the 97.3 and want to ensure I have the correct info.

*Amp Pics:*



















*AS&S Article about the 97.3*


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## Prime mova

Found this amp a while back, they have the manual and in the sellers item description it has some additional details plus a contact number and email.

http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130373


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## dman

ive posted so many times on these amps.. my brain still speeds.. Orion dealer for years, Rep car builder, and yes i know the amps.. look at my past posts on these. OH, and im looking for another, one of them for sale.. if so PM me.


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## bigdwiz

Prime mova said:


> Found this amp a while back, they have the manual and in the sellers item description it has some additional details plus a contact number and email.
> 
> Orion Concept 97.3 Special Edition - DIYMA Car Audio Forum


This is exactly what I was referring to as inaccurate information..the seller has NO IDEA what he's talking about. I read DMAN's replies about this being incorrect also. From what I can tell the amp is essentially an XTR-2250 and only stable at 2 ohms stereo or 4 ohms mono...yep, don't let the "myths" become true in your mind! It also won't do anywhere near 1800w, but we'll bust that myth soon enough on the test bench...


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## bigdwiz

dman said:


> ive posted so many times on these amps.. my brain still speeds.. Orion dealer for years, Rep car builder, and yes i know the amps.. look at my past posts on these. OH, and im looking for another, one of them for sale.. if so PM me.


I've seen a ton of past posts on these amps, but no real definitive technical info or how they were sold, etc. I searched before posting here and if you don't mind enlightening us or linking to the post where you explained the details of these amps, I would greatly appreciate it.

*Here's what I know:*

1) Orion stated 150 were made and approx. 100 sold (reference - AS&S article)
2) These amps were made to get back at other mfg's for creating "ultra cheater" amps such as the US Amps VLX-25. (reference - AS&S article - doesn't mention brands or models, but hints toward this amp)
3) These amps are not designed for ultra low ohm loads (reference - my tests)
*
Here's what I'd like to know:*

1) How were these amps actually sold? To dealers only?
2) How much did they sell for?
3) Were they indeed a lightly modified XTR-2250? (I'll verify soon enough)
4) Was any literature or additional printed info available for these amps?
5) Anything else?


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## bigdwiz

Here is some info I found on Termpro, but not sure how accurate it is either:

Orion Concept 97.3 wattage & ohm load??


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## bigdwiz

Here is a post I found from 2002 from Termpro, the guy stated he worked at Orion during the time these amps were available:

Orion Concept 97.3

_"The Concept 97.3 is the exact same amplifier as the 2250 Beast amplifier exactly. There were no modifications made or design changes made to help performance. The only change was the heat sink was clear anodized to give it a raw look. The entire Concept series was a product of two twisted people at ORION, Paul Sonoda and Jeff Green. The 97.3 was designed to prove a point to IASCA/dB Drag? How much a manufacturer can get away with just by rating an amplifier what ever they wanted to, it was meant to shed light on SoundStream and HiFonics who also has amplifiers with lower power ratings. The amplifier however as with all that series made great power and were very dependable."_


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## dman

bigdwiz said:


> This is exactly what I was referring to as inaccurate information..the seller has NO IDEA what he's talking about. I read DMAN's replies about this being incorrect also. From what I can tell the amp is essentially an XTR-2250 and only stable at 2 ohms stereo or 4 ohms mono...yep, don't let the "myths" become true in your mind! It also won't do anywhere near 1800w, but we'll bust that myth soon enough on the test bench...


Bid, i would have to dig on all my past replies... BUT

the 97.3 is a 2250 as stated... and i have said many times in the past... All of this came obout in the late 90's with Orion and Iasca having a pissing contest. You had your wars going on with Orion, Fosgate, Soundstream, US amps, etc.. Orion was the Manufacturer to beat with their high current hcca225 back in the day.. It was a high current amplifier rated at face value of 2x25, but would do excess off 400.. Back in those days when we were building vehicles, look at model #'s, all manufacturers had their model #'s coincide with there baser power ratings, 225 (2x25) 2100(2x100) etc. Soon other mans. followed suit with high current amps.. Then models, base ratings, etc. began to make NO sense, and the rules were changed to reflect the powers the Manuals STATED.. as one of the biggest bitchers were Orion.. So in a attemp to PISS OFF Iasca Orion came up with the CONCEPT series.. 

The first was the 97.1, it was their 4ch. amp, and in their attempt to save money and tooling cost, used a hcca 425 base UNFINISHED heat sink, all they had to retool was the top plate, and under the chasis they put a XTR on one side and a high current HCCA on the other, thats why its a staggered amplifier, with one side being high current on going into lower ohm loads.. Then the Concept 97.2 was their brand new 30 band EQ, and far ahead of its time at that point (later released as the DEQ30), then came the ultimate CHEATER AMP.... (not even high current) the 97.3, again, this was only a limited produced amp to prove a point to Iasca only... it was their 1w amp, that would do crazy power at super low ohm loads down to .00687 or some crazy #... And they made no changes.. the simply took raw unfinished 2250 heat sinks and rebadged them... NOWHERE on the face of the amp, or ANYWHERE in the manuals did it state otherwise, therefore was legal to be in the under 25w cattegory...This did not go over well with iasca shortly thereafter, and the amp was proven to produce much more, and was actually banned from iasca in 1998 i believe it was.. 

Now back to some of the other points.. the 97.3 was originally produced for their competitors and reps accounts builders.. i myself got 4 of them for a build in 1997, no matter what you came up with, you could not get down to the lowest ohm load without having a freightliner loaded with woofers, but yet their "white sheet to the rep" recommended a 4 ohm load for amp "SAFETY" @ a later date

our first attemp was 32 (8's) @ a total ohms load of .25, the amp went up in smoke give or take a few ohms, as this was 15 yrs. ago almost, on another build , we had 16 dvc 10's at same ohm load, same result, SMOKE.. both amps were sent in and came back as refurbished and inside the repair ticket back to the rep had the white sheet recommending 4 ohm load for long runs with a 2 ohm load for burps only.. Hence the rep telling us it was a 2250 actually, and from that point easy to figure out..

what Orion didnt figure on was most of the amps initially made were burnt up, even by their competitors, and Orions eagerness to piss off Iasca, and their lack of competior and rep support on the amp (their reluctance to admit the amp can not and would not do the rated specs) let to the amps killing almost immediatly.. They originally were going to do like 300 if i remember the talk. And were meant for the reps and competitors, but were released to the general public through dealers to move the stock they had already produced, and 60-70% of those ended up being shipped overseas.. The amp was never really fully supported and were shyed away from.. Orion screwed itself actually with the amp...

i initially kept mine, until around 2004 i believe, at that point, i had a refurbed we had run for 2-3 yrs., another refurbed one still in Orion brown box back from Orion, and 2 new ones still in original new orion boxes. All sold off, along with another bunch of equiptment new.. I do regret now, only because i still have the other ones, anyway, hope any of this has helped....


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## bigdwiz

dman, sorry to make you repeat yourself, but I searched for HOURS and couldn't find this info. This is perfect, thanks SO much! Do you recall the selling price? I read one post where an Orion employee said it was $400 more than the XTR-2250, but he also said 500 were produced, so not sure how accurate his info was...


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## dman

bigdwiz said:


> dman, sorry to make you repeat yourself, but I searched for HOURS and couldn't find this info. This is perfect, thanks SO much! Do you recall the selling price? I read one post where an Orion employee said it was $400 more than the XTR-2250, but he also said 500 were produced, so not sure how accurate his info was...


Bid, believe it or not, it was only like 10-12% higher is all... I remember it being shy of $800, like $795-$805, really not too much.. ONLY the GS stuff was much higher because of the gold plating they had to do, as the plating was not done in AZ, and was expensive at the time..

but the dealer cost on the 2250 in 1997 was $718... Also as a dealer accom. sale was 40% off and rep accom was i think 60% off, and i know at the time mine were under $400 each, like $360 something.. I tried to find my old invoices, but couldnt, but all falls in like with the amp being around say $780-$820, BUT NOT $400 more than the 2250

I DO have my dealer sheet from 1997, it is the first printing that year(jan. 1997), so was too new for the 97.3 as it was released a few months later.. the 97.1 was the first release (actually end of 1996, shipping first quarter of 1997), 97.2 was a late first quarter release, and the 97.3 was second quarter release, with the speakers 98.1's being done end of 1997, and shipping first quarter of 1998..

If you need any pricing on Orion for the 1997 year let me know... I have the complete line.

oh, and i think the ending production was around 250 or so, give or take, but you can take roughly 25% of that and call it dead inventory, or non returned to use status, maybe a little more, as its my understanding, that they started trashing them instead of repairing them.. But thats one of the things i cannot attest too 100%, but im 99% that they stopped producing well short of 500, and was never the intention..


on a secondary note, LOL.... while digging for you, i found a old Soundstream printout on box building, etc( from 1994) .... thing is like 80-90 pages... my how they made things very technical back then.. lol...

Oh, and also found on of my old AURA dealer price sheets, on the Aura Force Amps...

its got my blood flowing.... Started bringing back memories of the Good Old DAYS....

Also found my old Disc's (holy Cow, on FLOPPY) when we had our Orion Logo's done for some of our vehicles... Damn it, that was back in the day, its on a MAC disc.. got to find a way to open them, so i can see what is actually on them... i remember specs being sent to us from Orion, for our sign company we used..


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## bigdwiz

^^ Great post, thanks again for sharing the info. I'll make sure to copy it down this time so I don't have to ask again....LOL


As for production numbers, the AS&S article I posted above interviewed the Orion Marketing guy and he said 150 were made and "around" 100 were sold. The article was from March 1998, so the info was prob gathered in mid/late 1997.


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## daveds50

dman said:


> Bid, i would have to dig on all my past replies... BUT
> <snip>


 that was an awesome read ! brings back memories of the cheater days when i had a pair of US Amps HC50's... "hey dude... want to hear 100 watts ?" :laugh:


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## bigdwiz

dman said:


> Also found my old Disc's (holy Cow, on FLOPPY) when we had our Orion Logo's done for some of our vehicles... Damn it, that was back in the day, its on a MAC disc.. got to find a way to open them, so i can see what is actually on them... i remember specs being sent to us from Orion, for our sign company we used..


I'm sure there's prob a Mac computer collector out there with an old one capable of reading your disk. Too bad it was formatted Mac, b/c if it was formatted for Windows it could be easily recovered. It may be worth starting another thread for these logos and silk screening from amps as more and more people are having them refinished these days.


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## StockA4

Awesome read. Thanks Dman, that was a lot of very comprehensive info that I couldn't find anywhere else. And Thanks Big D for prompting this archeological dig.


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## Doc ProMos

Wow, that's great stuff.... funny thing is that I'm an early Fosgate and PPI collector but also have some very old Mac stuff... if you would like me to get the stuff off the disk just let me know.... Keith...










btw- that's a Mac 1400c on the bottom left (with its stock Floppy Drive) and a Newton MessagePad 120... old school Apple...


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## conarobb

DMAN great info on here as other posters have mentioned it is difficult to find info on these amps.

I have two of the 97.3s, a 97.1,a 97.2 and a pair of 98.1s. Also have a heap of NT gear. Great to see other Orion fans still out there.

Bigdwiz let us know what you think of them when you get them crankin.


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## bigdwiz

*conarobb*, I have a 1997 Orion newsletter which has a special section about the 97.1, can post it later. Unfortunately, it didn't mention the 97.3, nor was I able to locate the next few Orion newsletters to see if they mentioned the amp at a later time :shrug:


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## StockA4

[I have two of the 97.3s, a 97.1,a 97.2 and a pair of 98.1s. Also have a heap of NT gear. Great to see other Orion fans still out there.]

You have 98.1's? That would be the last piece i need. Too bad it's Christmas. I also don't imagine you'll be too excited to let those go any time soon. 

But if you do.......


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## dman

conarobb said:


> DMAN great info on here as other posters have mentioned it is difficult to find info on these amps.
> 
> I have two of the 97.3s, a 97.1,a 97.2 and a pair of 98.1s. Also have a heap of NT gear. Great to see other Orion fans still out there.
> 
> Bigdwiz let us know what you think of them when you get them crankin.


Hmmmmmm... I did post a long time back looking for another set of the 98.1's (sold mine years ago).. that would let me complete my retro install.. finally let go of one of me 97.1's a few months ago...

let me know if your looking to turn loose of the pair of 98.1's


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## conarobb

Guys 
the concept gear was bought as a set (97.1, 97.2, 97.3 and 98.1). I pickced up another 97.3 about 12 months later. Since then they have sat in a cupboard for nearly 4 years.
If someone was interested in taking the set I may be interested but I don't won't to break it up. 
Some of the NT gear is lined up for the next installation so it is going to be a while before the concept gear is out of the cupboard. Maybe better off in someone's car.
Thanks again damn for the amp info.
Robb


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## bigdwiz

Here's the one pager on the 97.1, it would be cool if anyone had anything like this for the 97.3...


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## StockA4

I'm prety sure I have a pdf of the 97.3 manual floating around somewhere. But if anyone's ever read it, they'd know it's completely useless for our purposes.


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## bigdwiz

Orion Concept 97.3 Manual attached to this post...


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## conarobb

bigdwiz said:


> *conarobb*, I have a 1997 Orion newsletter which has a special section about the 97.1, can post it later. Unfortunately, it didn't mention the 97.3, nor was I able to locate the next few Orion newsletters to see if they mentioned the amp at a later time :shrug:


Bigdwiz
I have an Orion dealer folder at home with a number of Orion newsletters. I am working away from home and won't be back until Christmas but I have put a reminder in my phone to look thorough it and see if there is anything there for you.
Very nice one pager n the 97.1 & 97.2.
Robb


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## bigdwiz

conarobb said:


> Bigdwiz
> I have an Orion dealer folder at home with a number of Orion newsletters. I am working away from home and won't be back until Christmas but I have put a reminder in my phone to look thorough it and see if there is anything there for you.
> Very nice one pager n the 97.1 & 97.2.
> Robb


I'm not sure they ever put the 97.3 in any literature or even in their own newsletter, but if you find anything, please let us know.


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## StockA4

There it is. Damping factor of 10k. Slew rate of 1k. The only thing correctly measured were its dimensions!


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## scoobysmak

I know this thread is old but I enjoyed it as an Orion fan. One day I might go and try to find some Concept or NT amps to use in a build, just hope I can find them when I look.



StockA4 said:


> There it is. Damping factor of 10k. Slew rate of 1k. The only thing correctly measured were its dimensions!


The test equipment used to measure the amps "electrical properties" must have been uh...off by a tad, lol.


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## StockA4

> One day I might go and try to find some Concept or NT amps to use in a build, just hope I can find them when I look.


They are out there. Problem is, everybody is asking stone crazy prices for everything these days. Not saying those amps aren't worth it. They are, Especially the NT's (by a wide margin). But with the advent of the OSS Facebook page, and the Amp Dyno, the prices for just about everything have gone up considerably.


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## jcjc5555

I can clear up any needed info you need about the 97.3 as the amps were made for my Orion Astro Van. Some of the things you read are true and other not so much. I came up with the idea after Hifonics pulled some **** at a few national events. NOTE: 6 of these amps were stolen from me in 1999 while the van was retired. I had 18 of them pushing 18 15in XTR3 subs. 

IT IS THE SAME AMP.NO MYSTERY 

We took the same heat sink but left it raw

The slogan was 18 Watt 97.3 “TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT”

These amps were never sold to anyone as new. People only have them because vehicles were torn down and the equipment was sold.

At the time it was the loudest Orion van at the time. 162.4 
We ran the same van with 2100s and 2250s then later with the 97.3 amps. They all did about the same. 
AS a note we broke the 0-100 watt record but I refused to take the win because it was to prove a point. The following year USAC and DBbrag change the rules


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