# Bass vs. mid bass, newb question, pls help



## Lance_S (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey guys,

I have been reading quite a few posts and have been looking into a 3 way system. I was wondering if someone could enlighten me on the difference between a midbass driver and a woofer. 

I guess the question I have is if I am running a 12" sub, does it still make sense to run a large midbass driver like an 8" in the door, then maybe a 4 for the mids and a tweet.

Or is the 8 and the 12 going to overlap? I know I can control that with crossover points but there is no sense in having drivers in a car capable of doing the same thing.

So in that instance would it be better to have a 6 1/2 mid bass driver instead of an 8?

Thanks in advance.

Lance.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

It all depends on what you are actually planning on doing. If you are going to do a 3 way then why not use the beefiest woofer you can fit else there may not be an advantage. This is under the understanding that other than power wise, there isn't necessarily any advantage of one over the other (2 way vs. 3 way). That is unless your woofers are going to be very off-axis and you can fit a midrange more on-axis to aid it....


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Super tweeter (some brands only)
Tweeter (traditional)
Midrange AKA mid (traditional - note: unless you're doing a 3 way, you are NOT using a midrange) - These do NOT have bass capability
Midbass AKA midwoofer (some brands only) - These are NOT supposed to be called "mids" as those are midranges which are DIFFERENT
Woofer (traditional)
Subwoofer (semi-traditional)

Some brands split their products up into all of those groups, some use just some of them. Many brands only use classify by the traditional woofer/midrange/tweeter (and possibly subwoofer).


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

In a car you would run a midbass to cover say 80Hz up to 200 or maybe much higher, but not up to a tweeter. It would be primarily a bass driver, so the driver itself would be a woofer. You can't run a big woofer up high as a home speaker because it will beam and in a car its usually off axis. So I would say midbass refers more to the band of frequency than the type of driver. One could use a sub driver to do 80-200Hz instead of a woofer.

Midbass are often used because a 6.5 that can match a tweeter well has a hard time getting to 80Hz. In general most xover at or around 80Hz because higher frequency can be localized and people don't want to hear sounds from subs in the back of the car, the lower frequencies you can't tell, so they run 80 LP (low pass) on subs and 80 HP in front. Some people vary that a little some a lot, but in general that is the deal. Also note a closed trunk is a low pass itself, high frequencies don't go through seats well.

A 2 way in front you can go to about 7" driver and if you use the right tweeter than can go low or a small full range, it will work. Most tweeters will work with a 6.5. If you go to an 8" you better be very careful what you use for a 'tweeter' it is hard to find something that will play highs and go that low to meet the 8. If you go 3 way you don't have those problems you could run a 10" woofer if you can fit it in there.

Why go large on a midbass? Well it comes down to tuning and budget. A cheap 10 and an expensive 6.5 can make the same midbass range, what one do you want to buy and install? The 6.5 might need some EQ work because it will have a higher Fs and even though its capable with huge xmax it might still have a poor response with no EQ. But you might have a fun time installing a 10 in a door on the other hand, an 8 is another option it all depends on the car and what you are wanting to do. Some of them need an enclosure as well, so you would have to fabricate that for the install.

I still call a 6.5 a mid because all early audio equipment was labelled that way; high/mid/sub. 3 way was high/mid/low/sub, and the sub is not counted as a 'way'. But like I said its the band or frequency, different drivers can be used to accomplish the same goals. Some people like to use the smallest driver they can, while I have a pair of 15s IB for subs about the largest I could fit. They don't need any EQ hardly because they tune to what I want. In my install it matters little if they were 8s or 15s, so I went big to get lower frequency. They play 30Hz no problem, I have 500rms but for most of my use they could have 150rms on them likely less.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

It's a general question so hard to say which is preferred...

I like 6.5" over 8" as a general rule because a 6.5" can play higher most of the time and transition to upper frequencies better. A 6.5" that can play flat to 4-5khz is awfully rare nowadays. 

In a 2 way (car audio) setup this is almost always the case.

In a 3 way setup, the 8" can be a good choice if it's a good driver and will blend in well with the midrange. If you're running a cone midrange, then the benefits of an 8's cone area can be better appreciated. 

These are not hard and fast rules for all 6.5" versus all 8" drivers made in all car/home/pro audio, but as a general rule for 90% of car audio (and even most raw drivers nowadays) this is the case.


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## Lance_S (Feb 11, 2009)

How low does the average 6 1/2 go? If my sub only goes to 80 which it seems is the basic cutoff point for most people, there has to be a hole in their between the sub and the mids.

Hell, I am running 5 1/4 separates so I probably have even more of a hole in my system.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Lance_S said:


> How low does the average 6 1/2 go? If my sub only goes to 80 which it seems is the basic cutoff point for most people, there has to be a hole in their between the sub and the mids.


varies between driver and enclosure... and also excursion and power... The more power you give it for loudness, the more likely you are to need a higher highpass point so that you aren't slamming the suspension.

80Hz is generally achievable.


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## Lance_S (Feb 11, 2009)

Dragon,

So when you say a "higher high pass" does that mean the amp is when you use high pass on an amp it comes in higher so the range would be say 100 and up or 200 and up? I am confused. I thought high pass meant it actually passed the highs. I.e. it didn't play the highs only the lows.



sorry for the confusion.

The more power you have to a given speaker, the more you would over exert said speaker in the low area, that was my understanding bu I might be mistaken.

L


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

I'm saying that if you keep the volume moderate then maybe a 70Hz highpass would work, but if you crank it up all the time then 70Hz might be too much for the driver to handle and you'd need to go to 80-90Hz or something.

There are technologies in some home theater products that will tailor the response curve depending on the volume for stuff like this... for example, Audyssey Dynamic EQ. Not sure if it's available in any automotive products.


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## Lance_S (Feb 11, 2009)

OK, I am with you , just a misunderstanding. That makes complete sense. Yes, Alpine has a system that is equivalent to audessy. The more power, the less the driver has the ability to handle lower frequencies that it was designed to put out. A driver that might be able to handle 80 htz at 20 watts may not be able to handle 80 htz at 50 watts. So that has to be taken into account when setting up the crossover points. Thus the benefit of a 3 way system vs. 2. You can split the frequency over more drivers thus reducing driver distortion at high levels because the driver is now well inside its "safety" range.

Please correct me if the above is wrong.

Thanks.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Most of the power is going to be in the woofer, so I really don't believe that that description of a 3-way is one of the primary benefits. It's the low frequencies that will run a woofer out of Xmax. A 3-way will sound better if you're distorting the woofer and not the midrange, yes, but that's not something you want to do to begin with. You really want either a high power, high excursion woofer, or you want multiple woofers... if one isn't enough, that is.

That's why I recommend beefy woofers like the Exodus Audio Anarchy when people have the room for them. Woofers like that tend to be at least 4" deep. CSS SDX7 is another. Both have XBL^2 and double the Xmax of their closest non-XBL^2 competitors.


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