# Public Apology From Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer



## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

Well everybody, it's time. Time to clear upeverything that has been going on with Art Series... I started this letter a month ago, and not that a ton of research has been done, it is time for me to make apology...

Snip------------------------------------------------------

Hello everybody,

This is going to be the hardest and easiest thing I have ever had to do in my entire life! It is hard because I have never been in this situation before. But it also a bit easy because it is not even the beginning of what I need to do to make amends for a horrific wrong doing that I have done to somebody…

With our purchase of Precision Power, we wanted to take a valued line and bring it back to life. Part of this would be to introduce a new Art Series of amplifiers. Our catalog showed an art amplifier but not the intended cosmetics. The fact is that we had many, many discussions about how it should look. After 6 months we agreed to make it similar to the originals; similar in heatsink design and in the artwork.

Some of you may know that I was in search of the original artwork so we could modify it for our new versions. I thought I obtained the artwork in pristine condition from a person on this forum. He said would provide us with the artwork if we gave him credit for it in print. We would have had no problem doing this. A lot of heat was in the thread about where the original artwork came from.

There are some false beliefs about where the original art came from. I even heard a story about Jeff Scoon’s wife drawing it with crayons on a napkin during a dinner outing. There is only one truth, and I wasnot in the know about the true history of PPI Art Series. In fact, Jeff Scoon called me to school me about what REALLY happened. I also got contacted by Jeff Peters, Don Ciardullo and others who all had the true story/experience to tell me. The true artist is Carolyn Hall Young. Many of you knew this, but I did not. I did not know the history behind the Art Series until recently. I called Carolyn and got the whole story. I apologized profusely and have been talking to her, Warren, and some of the original PPI people since. In fact, I have talked to Carolyn and Warren almost every day for the last few weeks. Sometimes we talked a few times a day. They are stellar people. I love those guys!

I cannot come up with strong enough words to express how deeply sorry I am. Can you imagine somebody trying to claim rights to your passionate artwork?! This is plagiarism! I did not try to steal it; however I made a grave mistake. Dave Brimer, the guy who I got it from, claimed it was his that he acquired from the original days and recreated it. That IS stealing! For the last 27 years I have been in this industry, I have always wanted people who know me to realize one thing… I am an honest man. Regardless of where I worked or what I sold, I always remain unbiased and feel comfortable complimenting my competition’s products. I cannot live with guilt, dishonesty, and any faulty demeanor. Yet I just hurt Carolyn badly. She mentioned during our call that there might have been some innocence in what happened. Very true, I did not fabricate the story I heard, but merely trusted a person that I should not have. BUT, with being so busy and traveling, I had not had the time to do any research on what I was told by Dave, or do any blind research on my own for that matter. That is 100% my fault and nobody is accountable for this but myself. So again, my apologies to all of you and especially Carolyn and Warren.

The fact is that I had no concrete evidence of what was real when I received the files from Dave. What seemed like concrete evidence was the artwork that was provided to me, making the whole untrue story even more fathomable at the time. I should have done my research on Dave and on Carolyn Hall Young, and even found some old PPI people to talk to, but I was preparing for some travel time. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear. A huge “thanx” to everybody that knows the facts, for contacting me! Everybody’s information coincided with each others’ perfectly, which I expect from truth. 

The owners of my company are informed of what has transpired and I told them we need to cease the project immediately, as of a few weeks ago. Please know that this whole painful scenario is 100% my fault and not the fault of my company. We would never release the Art Series amplifiers with any traits that rightfully belong to Carolyn without her stated permission. Carolyn has informed me that she has rights to her work until 70 years after her death. I respect this completely, and even if she did not have the rights, I still could never even consider marketing a derivative product of the original Art Series without her blessing. 

I must tell you all this… I was all choked up when first talking to Carolyn. She told me a story that was amazing. Though I have never talked to her before, I could tell she is a wonderful person, who felt violently betrayed. I think over the last 27 years, I generated a half-way decent reputation. I feel that I have just diminished my reputation which I have worked so hard to earn. I have deeply disappointed myself, and people I care about, including all of you on this forum. It is amazing what can happen if you do not research things or people…

Dear Carolyn,
You know now this is not typical of me. I had no wrong intentions. I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that I am immensely sorry for the pain I have caused you. I will do anything to make it up to you. Please forgive me. 

To forum members,
I want to apologize to you as well. I want to make myself worthy of your trust, and I hope that you will allow me the opportunity to earn it. I humiliated myself on my own, ignorant accord. Some of you stood up for me and told Carolyn that there is no way I could have known about Dave. Thank you for your support! You know I am always here for you. 

Since this all started, unfathomable amounts of research have been done to find out where this artwork came from, what it was, and details about the people involved.

Dave,
You viciously hurt me! How can you possibly live with yourself, knowing that you are trying to steal somebody else’s work? Your lies could have seriously hurt our company. Did you never consider that if we would have proceeded and given you the credit in print that you required, that people would have found out? What exactly is it that you were trying to accomplish with this scam anyway? Illegitimate credit and respect? The artwork you sent was a brutal abomination of Carolyn’s artwork. It was not even useable. She laughed when she saw it. How could you consider pics of amps on a bed or table of some sort recreated artwork? On another topic, you would complain about the members of the forum because they did not know you. Turns out that everybody I am talking to now from old PPI does not know you either. Not even Carolyn! Several people are doing research on you, and have been for a few weeks, like I should have done in the first place. I will not waste my time even mentioning the things that were found. Personally, I think you are a pathological liar. You may not even mean to lie but you have fabricated such intense lies for so long, that maybe now you believe them. I know that I am not the only person that you tried to screw over in the past. I KNOW this, I am not assuming. You threatened not to go on the forums due to the idiocy of the members. I have news for you Dave… You are “that person” that made me feel I needed and wanted to leave the forum! NEVER bother to contact me! I never want to hear anything from you again. I have spent immense amounts of energy making amends, finding the truth, and trying to move forward. I will not waste another single second communicating with you. You’re a sick ****er! Excuse my Irish everybody, but I am not in the mood to be articulate and professional at the moment.

Back to the rest of you…

Suffice to say, I have been very uncomfortable and upset. I do not know how to express how intense this whole situation is. But something else wonderful came out of all of this. I became friends with Carolyn and Warren. I also got to talk to old friends and learn a lot about PPI’s history.

Again, please accept my deepest apology for my false post on the forum! I have been quiet for awhile so that thorough research could be done. Let me make this very clear… The Art Series amps will NOT be released. We have had all of the boards done since last year, but we will have to create an entirely new series to use them. The idea of having a recreation of Art Series amplifiers is NOT going to happen. Sorry for getting everybody’s hopes up, but this is the right thing to do. 

Blessings,

Grizz


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

That took a lot of guts to come on here and admit you did something. Props for that. I am sure the ensuing hate crowd will follow soon. Dont worry about it, press on with the product and the amps will take care of themselves. Especially if they are as good as the other Epsilon products (Soundstream REF's).


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

Well done, Grizz.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

Thanks Grizz. Good to hear the truth from the source.

I guess now we know who dave is and what he did for this industry... Nothing... on both accounts.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*



fertigaudio said:


> That took a lot of guts to come on here and admit you did something. Props for that. I am sure the ensuing hate crowd will follow soon. Don't worry about it, press on with the product and the amps will take care of themselves. Especially if they are as good as the other Epsilon products (Soundstream REF's).


Thanx, but I am not looking for props. I have been sick over this for a darn month. But I gotta tell ya, I feel so dorn good not that this crap is off my chest. There is something very valuable to me about holding oneself accountable and admitting faults. I screw up all the time, we all do, but I love to admit is because I can then ditch that poison, learn and go on with life... Just sucks when I make a huge mistake that so many people know about. Oh well... I SUCK! But at least I'm honest. There, now everybody knows...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

Well done Grizz and I sincerely hope things are behind this fiasco and life looks much better for you in the future.

Thank you.


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## rugdnit (Dec 24, 2007)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

Grizz-- If only our politicians in this country were as stand up as you. Perhaps things wouldn't be so screwed up. It takes a big man to acknowledge a wrong doing and furthermore correct it. Knowing the character that is behind the products makes me more likely to consider product from your line.


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## Ban Hammer (Jun 26, 2010)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

It's clear to me that Grizz was duped.
In my personal opinion on the topic, Grizz is being far too hard on himself, but I understand his being a person in a position of authority at Epsilon, it's his responsibility to not let things like this happen.
He's human. People make mistakes.
Hopefully this hasn't tainted his image, and everyone can move on.


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

:2thumbsup: Way to go, Grizz.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*

*Grizz, I posted a few weeks ago that I was boycotting the purchase of anything and everything Epsilon has a hand in, unless/until Dave Brimer was separated from having any affiliation with the company. I didn't and won't share the weight of what "my" purchases involve on an annual basis, but let's consider them larger than average. 
I didn't post that to hurt you, or to hurt PPI or Epsilon, but to show my extreme distaste and distrust in anything that even remotely involved Dave Brimer. When he was involved with the artwork scandal (a strong word, but one I feel is appropriate), all signs pointed to Epsilon accepting him as a legitimate source- which many of us knew was not the case. 
I don't blame you for believing him, as you didn't have reason to think otherwise. I'm hoping you're not being too hard on yourself over this, as it was him who intentionally hoodwinked you- not you who intentionally hoodwinked us.

Bottom line, whether you realize the weight of this or not, all is forgiven as far as I'm concerned. 
I'm no longer boycotting the purchase of Epsilon companies' products.
Separating your company from that lying piece of rubbish Dave Brimer is all I wanted to see and I'm glad for many reasons that it's happened. Thank you for standing up for what's right, and thank you for keeping us in the loop. Your apology speaks to me (and likely "us" as a community) in a huge way, and it's accepted and appreciated. Kudos, bro.*


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: New PPI Art Series?*



SolemnSinner said:


> It's clear to me that Grizz was duped.
> In my personal opinion on the topic, Grizz is being far too hard on himself, but I understand his being a person in a position of authority at Epsilon, it's his responsibility to not let things like this happen.
> He's human. People make mistakes.
> Hopefully this hasn't tainted his image, and everyone can move on.


Thanx everybody for your understanding and forgiveness. This is kind of weird but I am holding a grudge against myself. It's shameful, but it will fade away. The most important thing had already happened as I mentioned. I have become friends with Carolyn and Warren. And while the Art Series could have been something very cool, and by far, the series that I would have loved the most, regardless of position in the brand, we'll just move forward with something different I suppose...


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## Ban Hammer (Jun 26, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*

Good luck in any future ventures, Grizz.


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## SublimeZ (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*

The only person who never makes a mistake, is the one who never does anything. The measure of a man is how he handles those mistakes. You sir, have done yourself and your company a great honor.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*

1. I remember seeing that artwork that dave was trying to pass for "original" for the first time and thinking..who is this joker try trying to kid saying this was the original art. it looked like high school photoshop work.

2. So are you going to move forward with the real artwork?


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*

Your a great man Grizz.... Dont let it get you down, your a Good Person!!!


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*

Grizz, it takes a lot of balls to come out and say what you did. You've represented your company, and more importantly yourself, as being truly honourable. You've put any lingering questions about this whole debacle to bed for good.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



SolemnSinner said:


> Good luck in any future ventures, Grizz.


Thanx! There will be some and I will rely on you guys for some research!


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



miniSQ said:


> 1. I remember seeing that artwork that dave was trying to pass for "original" for the first time and thinking..who is this joker try trying to kid saying this was the original art. it looked like high school photoshop work.
> 
> 2. So are you going to move forward with the real artwork?


Unfortunately no. We are going to have to start from scratch on cosmetics... Monster bummer!


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

We all hate Dave, but you are a cool cat Grizz.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Sooo all this is over that split personality Audiodave asshat I wrote off in the first three pretentious posts he made?


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



Grizz Archer said:


> Unfortunately no. We are going to have to start from scratch on cosmetics... Monster bummer!


So in other words - Carolyn refused to let you use/purchase the rights to her artwork?


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## bakkenar (Jun 8, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



Grizz Archer said:


> Unfortunately no. We are going to have to start from scratch on cosmetics... Monster bummer!


maybe a reproduction of the black series???


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## finfinder (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Mistakes get made every day but few folks have balls enough to make a public apology; way to man up.


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## emrliquidlife (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Many thanks for posting the end result. I'm a PPI fan from back in the day, and continue to this day.

Ed


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## JKashat (Nov 19, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



bakkenar said:


> maybe a reproduction of the black series???


+1. THAT's a great idea (if it's possible). Grizz?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



audiogodz1 said:


> Sooo all this is over that split personality Audiodave asshat I wrote off in the first three pretentious posts he made?


Yup.

But it's time to move forward.

The light at the end of the tunnel sounds a BIT LESS like a freight train.


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

thumb up for Grizz. 

as for the other guy? You can purchase a beat down off eBay, right?


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



Grizz Archer said:


> Unfortunately no. We are going to have to start from scratch on cosmetics... Monster bummer!


I'm more settled with this anyhow. Having two amps look alike 15 years apart would be hell when the resale of amps came into play. 

The guts diagrams on the black art amps was a good look and would be cool, but in anything except black would be kinda off.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



audiogodz1 said:


> I'm more settled with this anyhow. Having two amps look alike 15 years apart would be hell when the resale of amps came into play.
> 
> The guts diagrams on the black art amps was a good look and would be cool, but in anything except black would be kinda off.


I like the gloss black/flat black combo.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

So has this Dave guy been permanently banned from here? If not that's Step 1.
Step 2 is: Grizz, I think we all accept your unnecessary apology to us. Carolyn was the one wronged but not by you. She was wronged by a plagerizing(sp?) scumbag.
Step 3: Continue to make some great amps 

Edit....I see Step 1 has been completed.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

*Very Well **done !! *

Thank You for the heartfelt and gut wrenching expose on something that has caused you incredible grief. 

*WISH YOU *_continued success with your future endeavors_ !


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Kudos, well done!
Best wishes to you moving forward!


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Yes... Black heatsinks with the actual circuit board traces printed on them, shape of the amp unimportant, assuming this has no copyright issues.

Personally I always liked the black ones more anyways.


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## Warren Young (Jul 9, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



rommelrommel said:


> Yes... Black heatsinks with the actual circuit board traces printed on them, shape of the amp unimportant, assuming this has no copyright issues.
> 
> Personally I always liked the black ones more anyways.


Carolyn created the black ones, too. Ask Grizz how much his owners offered her.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



Warren Young said:


> *Carolyn created the black ones, too*. Ask Grizz how much his owners offered her.


*I was going to mention that I thought she did.*

I'm guessing it was quite insulting.:surprised:


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Grizz, honestly it was the only thing you could have done. I don't say this to discredit you, there are many people who have one way out and refuse to take it. It's the COURAGE to expose your weakness that is admirable here. Well done, and look forward to seeing your projects in the future.


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## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Grizz,

Everything happens for a reason. You are probably wondering why right now but give it time and I'm sure it will work out for the better! Look at the friends you have gained that you would have never gained without this. What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. You my man have gained tremendous strength through this! Good Luck with your future endeavors. Although I'm guessing you probably won't need any luck!


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Grizz... maybe you should have a little contest on here and have some guys do some Graphics, and then have the Diyma community vote on them.. and give the winner a free amp or something for the rights to the Graphics..

maybe ill get flamed for this.. I think its a good idea.

what do you guys think??


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



mmiller said:


> Grizz... maybe you should have a little contest on here and have some guys do some Graphics, and then have the Diyma community vote on them.. and give the winner a free amp or something for the rights to the Graphics..
> 
> maybe ill get flamed for this.. I think its a good idea.
> 
> what do you guys think??


Okay...but it has to be done with crayon on a napkin :laugh:


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

I know im kinna new here, and every day im liking this fourm better and better. I love the fact that there are "industry insiders" here as members. 
Dude, you have earned a ton of respect from me tonight. Im one of those neanderthol people that are stuck on using "old-school" gear. This stand-up move on your part may very well have changed my opinion on the matter. 
You mentioned that the boards have been done a while, so im assuming we will see them emerge at some point in some form. I think that is the important part in all this. While it may not come out in the "clothing" originally planned, a quality amp is a quality amp. 

I just might be first in line, purchasing new gear for the first time in a long time.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



BigAl205 said:


> Okay...but it has to be done with crayon on a napkin :laugh:


:laugh: and I was keeping my smartass comments out of this thread so as not to detract. I will post in the other thread.


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## freemind (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Grizz I applaud you. 

I also concur about the Black Series.


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## rugdnit (Dec 24, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



89grand said:


> *I was going to mention that I thought she did.*
> 
> I'm guessing it was quite insulting.:surprised:


This has to be a can of worms, but it makes you wonder what the going/asking rate on this is. Is it reasonable or has she priced it beyond what the market will pay? Perhaps someone will pay it and perhaps not. From Warrens' response he sounds insulted. In any case perhaps it's best that some things stay where they are.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Nice to see stand up people in any industry. That could have very well influenced my "buying power" in the future


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



rugdnit said:


> This has to be a can of worms, but it makes you wonder what the going/asking rate on this is. Is it reasonable or has she priced it beyond what the market will pay? Perhaps someone will pay it and perhaps not. From Warrens' response he sounds insulted. In any case perhaps it's best that some things stay where they are.


Well as it turns out, it is quite insulting in my opinion, but I'll just leave it at that.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Can you smell what the Grizz is cooking?

I can, and it's pretty sweet.


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

DAM, my heart just broke. I have a tremendous respect for Grizz and the guys at Epilson, but I was really looking forward to get my hands on one of the new Arts. I currently have all old school Arts in my collection and I was LOVING the new design. Ohh well. I'm sure something better will come about from this. I will continue to watch with a close eye. I can only hope that whatever come about will pay homage in some way to the originals that we all have come to love.


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## Warren Young (Jul 9, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Carolyn and I are far too tired to respond in full at this time, except to say that Grizz has been respectful, forthright, and helpful. We are happy that you are acknowledging his courage, and supporting him in his efforts. 

We have each learned more about Dave Brimer than anyone would ever want to know, and the lessons learned were hard earned. We hope that Dave, too, has gained something worthwhile from this.

It was out of concern for us, that Grizz postponed his public apology, and we sincerely appreciate it. It was difficult for him to have to wait so long. 

We hope that Grizz feels the relief that we do, and I know that we all look forward to moving on to more positive and fruitful investments our time and energy. We wish Grizz all the best with the new PPI.

Thank you, dear gentlemen and ladies of the forum, all for your patience, kindness, and care. Your generosity has been immeasurably valuable to us, throughout all of this. 

Finally, and probably most importantly: we salute Jeff Scoon for having the faith, vision and leadership to make Precision Power what it once was. He is the man who built the legacy of PPI — the inspiration for the art, for the engineering innovations, and for the fine, enduring craftsmanship of Precision Power mobile audio equipment. A job well done, Jeff Scoon. Thank you. it was an honor to be a part of the journey of the revolution, and the evolution of the state of the art. We had a beautiful time. Boldness has power and glory in it. 

Sincerely,
Warren and Carolyn Hall Young
El Rancho (Santa Fe) New Mexico


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## Ban Hammer (Jun 26, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



Warren Young said:


> We have each learned more about Dave Brimer than anyone would ever want to know



*I wouldn't mind knowing more about this guy.
Not in open forum, however.
*


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

I am saddened that the Arts series will not be resurrected. In this case it seems the lowlife has won and caused tremendous pain for everyone involved. Grizz, it sure is nice to learn the truth and I look forward to seeing what is in store for PPI. I sure would loved to have some ''new'' Arts!


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## John Studley (May 13, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

In the end, you did the right thing...bravo!


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## benhinkle711 (Jun 30, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Grizz, 

I'll admit that I followed this soap opera lightly with some interest. Starting with the new art series thread. I drew pretty much the same conclusions about Dave as everyone else and I now understand the reasons you took so long addressing this issue publicly on the forum, although I'll admit I was scratching my head as to why you were silent through all of this. That being said I had got a bad taste in my mouth for Epsilion. I would like to say thanks for coming on here and explaining, in detail, the situation and for making your apology. I will now take Epsilon, and specifically PPI, off my banned list. My individual dollars may not make a difference to your company but the collective dollars of this forum will and you did your company a great service by making this situation right. Thanks again.


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## bullet (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

This guy deserves a standing ovation, Well done Grizz, well done.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



SublimeZ said:


> The only person who never makes a mistake, is the one who never does anything. The measure of a man is how he handles those mistakes. You sir, have done yourself and your company a great honor.


Very well said. And I agree 110%! Best of luck to you and your company in the future Grizz.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



Warren Young said:


> Carolyn and I are far too tired to respond in full at this time, except to say that Grizz has been respectful, forthright, and helpful. We are happy that you are acknowledging his courage, and supporting him in his efforts.
> 
> We have each learned more about Dave Brimer than anyone would ever want to know, and the lessons learned were hard earned. We hope that Dave, too, has gained something worthwhile from this.
> 
> ...


Lights are low and the curtain falls. Should tack it off right here.

Here's to the most recognizable amplifier on the planet. :beerchug:


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## pat_smith1969 (Feb 17, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Meh...
The Arts were cool, but they were cool because of how they sounded, the artwork only added to it. If those were Pyramid amps there no amount of artwork would cause us to fawn over them.

I say come up with a new design for the amps, one that pays slight hommage to the originals without infringing on the feelings and rights of the artworks owners but still gives the enthusiests something. I am thinking of something like what you did with the Human Reign amps. 

In the end... I want them to sound good, like the original Arts did. 

Regardless, I have had a few conversations with Grizz and have already decided his company is getting my money the next time (next year) I decide to buy a new amp (hehe I buy two or three amps every 10 years so I am a consumer Juggernaught). He comes across as an honest person and now that this whole debacle is over he still looks to be a REAL honest guy.

The only question now is.... do I buy the SS Refs, PG top amp, or the PPI top amp (whatever it is called at that time). I am leaning towards the PPI, just because I have always been a PPI person.


----------



## hawkfan (May 1, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

Am I alone in thinking this whole thing is a tad over dramatic? I understand the need, better yet the RIGHT, for people to be properly compensated for their intellectual property, but all of this over the cosmetics of an amp? I read over the original thread, but maybe I'm missing something here?

BTW, respect to Mr. Archer for apologizing and doing his best to diffuse the situation.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



katodevin said:


> So in other words - Carolyn refused to let you use/purchase the rights to her artwork?


NO! Carolyn was willing to work with us on doing something new, but there is a conflict in the monies. I see the value in a hughe way, but maybe the owners do not see the value and would rather start from scratch. Regardless, I do not always get my way. They understand the marketing potential of collaborating with Carolyn, but in this economy, I think they would rather start from scratch and not be behind the 8-ball monetarily on such a nostalgic piece... 

Please note that Carolyn was willing to work with us. She rocks!


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer rePI Art Series*



bakkenar said:


> maybe a reproduction of the black series???


Sorry man, Art is dead forever. We will not make any sort of derivitive of Carolyns originals...


----------



## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

This may have all seemed trivial to some but, there were bigger issues underlying the whole saga. Sure it came down to cosmetics of a car audio amplifier but, could just have easily been about something far bigger. We live in a world where the majority find it is easier to forget about personal responsibility all for a dollar or a headline. It's nice to see some still value truth, honor and doing the right thing.
Good job Grizz. I was on the fence about the 'new P-P-I' but, not so much now.


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



PPI_GUY said:


> This may have all seemed trivial to some but, there were bigger issues underlying the whole saga. Sure it came down to cosmetics of a car audio amplifier but, could just have easily been about something far bigger. We live in a world where the majority find it is easier to forget about personal responsibility all for a dollar or a headline. It's nice to see some still value truth, honor and doing the right thing.
> Good job Grizz. I was on the fence about the 'new P-P-I' but, not so much now.


As I was reading this "and the American way" popped into my head. I know that Americans still stand strong in the face of a world that mocks us. We are not all bad.


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## freemind (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



SolemnSinner said:


> *I wouldn't mind knowing more about this guy.
> Not in open forum, however.
> *



Well put.


----------



## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



John Studley said:


> In the end, you did the right thing...bravo!


Thanx John


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## maverik159 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

The Standing Ovation for Grizz continues- I certainly Lurk here more than I post, but I am a BIG PPI fan (like more than a few guys here). I have watched the decline of a lot of great brands into flash and dash crap (PPI _formerly_ being in this same category). I have closely followed this Art drama and learned a lot form it in the course of the thread(s). That all said, I can't express how refreshing it is to see a director of marketing for anything be so completely honest in the rectification of an error. 

I am already rapidly becoming a new PPI/Epsilon fan thanks directly to Grizz- an evidenced by the PC3.65C set of components sitting on my dining room table right now.....

This "drama" and resulting clarity has evidenced one of the greatest traits, rarely found in the sale of anything: someone (enter Grizz) who truly and actually cares about how his product is designed and produced(and therefore marketed), while trying to replicate arguably one of the best product lines of all times...

Epsilon needs to give you a raise, because you are single handedly responsible for my current and future interest in a product/ company that I feared long sense dead.

Cheerleading aside, I can't wait to listen to this well engineered 3 way set and then complement it with whatever the new Art series looks like....

Well done, sir.


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## D1g1tal V3n0m (Dec 24, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*

A very stand up thing to do.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



freemind said:


> Well put.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



89grand said:


>


Blind to moderation, it's all good, he will figure it out.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Dave asked that I make another apology to him for calling him something he did not like. Fine, sorry. I suppose my anger got the best of me. He said he does not want to have problems at CES and is sorry for the way things went down.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

I believe he will have problems no matter where he goes or who apologizes for calling him something. Just sayin.


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

I'm sorry you're a loser, Dave.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



imjustjason said:


> I believe he will have problems no matter where he goes or who apologizes for calling him something. Just sayin.


x2 I don't get his logic here, but that's not new.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Dave completely misrepresented himself and cost a company no telling how much money and he is the one that was wronged. It's all about him. I thought you knew that.

Grizz just called him what he is.


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## Vander (Jun 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



imjustjason said:


> Dave completely misrepresented himself and cost a company no telling how much money and he is the one that was wronged. It's all about him. I thought you knew that.
> 
> Grizz just called him what he is.


Maybe I should take on my AudioDave2 personality like I did on caraudio.com and say what he really is.It got me permabanned but it was worth it


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## Vander (Jun 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Vander said:


> Maybe I should take on my AudioDave2 personality like I did on caraudio.com and say what he really is.It got me permabanned but it was worth it


Well on second thought,I dont think I will.I actually like this forum as there is more than the usual "My D!ck is bigger than yours,look at my TL score" stuff going on here.People here actually understand there is more to car audio than who is louder or who has the biggest E-peen.


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Sorry if this was covered or sounds stupid. If you guys own PPI how come you do not own the art work?


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



bkjay said:


> Sorry if this was covered or sounds stupid. If you guys own PPI how come you do not own the art work?


Because the artist that created the art owns the rights to her artwork


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



jp88 said:


> Because the artist that created the art owns the rights to her artwork


Oh Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Another stupid one.Now can they copy the amps internals or is that owned by the engineer who designed the amp?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



bkjay said:


> Sorry if this was covered or sounds stupid. If you guys own PPI how come you do not own the art work?


I think it's more along the lines of you own the product...not the rights, and we weren't given license to distribute in our original transaction.



EDIT. not quick enough


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## PSYKO_Inc (Dec 11, 2006)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

My recommendation: Pop the amps into a plain black or polished aluminum heatsink, no fancy artwork or loud colours or shiny plastichrome/fake rivets/fake carbon fiber. Just something clean and simple looking. The newer Powerbass amps are a perfect example. Clean, simple, and functional, without looking gaudy.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



bkjay said:


> Oh Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Another stupid one.Now can they copy the amps internals or is that owned by the engineer who designed the amp?


We could do that and a few people would dig it. But technology has changed radically over the last 15 years. The boards now are muchmore advanced. The problem is that they are not as cool looking with all the bigh bulky parts. This is not always the case. But I can assure you that some of the best amps out today are pretty boring inside.


----------



## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> We could do that and a few people would dig it. But technology has changed radically over the last 15 years. The boards now are muchmore advanced. The problem is that they are not as cool looking with all the bigh bulky parts. This is not always the case. But I can assure you that some of the best amps out today are pretty boring inside.


I understand technology has changed and as it does things become cheaper due to mass production and higher demand. What if a company went back to 10-15 year old technology and built amps to specs back then. Find a solid topology and re-release it. You get old school tech with new school price.

A good example of this is on the diyaudio forums. Someone found an old power amp build from a popular electronics magazine and ran with newer better performing noise free parts and built it themselves. The THD turned out to be .0018 I may be misquoting but it was extremely noise free for the year it was designed. (mid 1980's)

There isnt anything wrong with through hole designed parts. But this was just something I was reading, we will love something original from PPI. Start a new following so in 10 years people will be posting pics of amps that were made in this generation. Saying how much they loved their 2010 amps back in the day.


----------



## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> I understand technology has changed and as it does things become cheaper due to mass production and higher demand. What if a company went back to 10-15 year old technology and built amps to specs back then. Find a solid topology and re-release it. You get old school tech with new school price.
> 
> A good example of this is on the diyaudio forums. Someone found an old power amp build from a popular electronics magazine and ran with newer better performing noise free parts and built it themselves. The THD turned out to be .0018 I may be misquoting but it was extremely noise free for the year it was designed. (mid 1980's)
> 
> There isnt anything wrong with through hole designed parts. But this was just something I was reading, we will love something original from PPI. Start a new following so in 10 years people will be posting pics of amps that were made in this generation. Saying how much they loved their 2010 amps back in the day.


Through hole costs alot more in production and labor, so the price would actually be higher and the reliability would go down. Plus you have tons of pretesting sinc you have nop idea if the parts you put in are good or not until it is tested. Then you have to repair the ones that fail testing. Conputerized insertion machines test every single part to within a specified tollerance, trash the bad parts and grab another good part until the board is loaded 90% (minus the bulky stuff). To go back to an old school assembly line would make amps extremely expensive and less reliable. Just can't go there...


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> Through hole costs alot more in production and labor, so the price would actually be higher and the reliability would go down. Plus you have tons of pretesting sinc you have nop idea if the parts you put in are good or not until it is tested. Then you have to repair the ones that fail testing. Conputerized insertion machines test every single part to within a specified tollerance, trash the bad parts and grab another good part until the board is loaded 90% (minus the bulky stuff). To go back to an old school assembly line would make amps extremely expensive and less reliable. Just can't go there...


Nice; well there you go. Great price great amp. Find the topology of old and switch the parts out for SMD parts. This may already be the case since I read something from an audio magazine a while back that stated there were only 3 or 4 amps of each topology and the rest were just copies or reworked.
Who is designing the new PPI amps? Is it someone we may have hear of or known? Thanks.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> Nice; well there you go. Great price great amp. Find the topology of old and switch the parts out for SMD parts. This may already be the case since I read something from an audio magazine a while back that stated there were only 3 or 4 amps of each topology and the rest were just copies or reworked.
> Who is designing the new PPI amps? Is it someone we may have hear of or known? Thanks.


The new amps are designed in house! Ya kidding me bro? lol I do not think the engineer would apprciate me giving out his name, but there is nobody in theis industry that does not know his work. He is the same engineer that did some of the Soundstream products...


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> The new amps are designed in house! Ya kidding me bro? lol I do not think the engineer would apprciate me giving out his name, but there is nobody in theis industry that does not know his work. He is the same engineer that did some of the Soundstream products...


Nope not kidding.  New amp, new engineer? That was all I was thinking when I typed that.  Just trying to squeeze out some insider info.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> The new amps are designed in house! Ya kidding me bro? lol I do not think the engineer would apprciate me giving out his name, but there is nobody in theis industry that does not know his work. He is the same engineer that did some of the Soundstream products...


It's good that you are taking your time to get it right! Good luck Grizz.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> It's good that you are taking your time to get it right! Good luck Grizz.


I'f I start crawling on my hands and knees now, I will be in your town in time to have generated the perfect begging speach so thay we may someday work together on a new, true Art Series! 

Love ya dear!


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## jsamp05 (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



I800C0LLECT said:


> Nice to see stand up people in any industry. That could have very well influenced my "buying power" in the future



Mine also..... I've been a lurker here for a while and this is my first post. I've been looking at amplifiers and after reading this PPI's are the front runner for me.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



I800C0LLECT said:


> Nice to see stand up people in any industry. That could have very well influenced my "buying power" in the future


There are so many terrific, sincere and honorable people in this industry. I am no longer in it, but many people who I met through my work,; suppliers, customers, co-workers and even people who you might consider to be "competition" in business, remain my close and respected friends. 

I assume that I am not unique in these feelings. The market is supposed to be tough now, but people always think the market is difficult. That does not give us license to lower our standards of honor. When one of us raised the bar, it motivated the mobile audio industry to be better. When one of use failed our customers, it effected every one. The same is true today. It's true everyday, no matter what you do for a living.


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> There are so many terrific, sincere and honorable people in this industry. I am no longer in it, but many people who I met through my work,; suppliers, customers, co-workers and even people who you might consider to be "competition" in business, remain my close and respected friends.
> 
> I assume that I am not unique in these feelings. The market is supposed to be tough now, but people always think the market is difficult. That does not give us license to lower our standards of honor. When one of us raised the bar, it motivated the mobile audio industry to be better. When one of use failed our customers, it effected every one. The same is true today. It's true everyday, no matter what you do for a living.


WOW! Very wise words, I hope many read this.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> I'f I start crawling on my hands and knees now, I will be in your town in time to have generated the perfect begging speach so thay we may someday work together on a new, true Art Series!
> 
> Love ya dear!


Ah shucks, Grizz. I'm blushing. 
You know, it would have to be one heck of a speech. Remember to wear kneepads and sunscreen.
xxoo chy


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> There are so many terrific, sincere and honorable people in this industry. I am no longer in it, but many people who I met through my work,; suppliers, customers, co-workers and even people who you might consider to be "competition" in business, remain my close and respected friends.
> 
> I assume that I am not unique in these feelings. The market is supposed to be tough now, but people always think the market is difficult. That does not give us license to lower our standards of honor. When one of us raised the bar, it motivated the mobile audio industry to be better. When one of use failed our customers, it effected every one. The same is true today. It's true everyday, no matter what you do for a living.



It seems to me that the leaders of this industry have very much been burned out by the every day indnividual who just doesn't care about quality...only appearance. There's too many examples of small business or even large companies falling prey to this consumer mentality. Hopefully Grizz can re-ignite the passion amongst the manufacturers. I've always thought that if "you're in the business to make money" then chances are your broke. My opinion is that people are in business because they have a product or service that people want; finding that niche market is another story


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

It wont be a lack of his trying (grizz) thats for damn sure!


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

The fact of the matter is if you build an amp that performs as well or better to the old Art amps, you can leave it completely unpainted and stick a PPI logo on bottom and it'll still sell with loyalty based on it's abilities. PPI doesn't need advertising, it's not an upstart company. It doesn't have to be the flashiest amp out there. People know what PPI is.

*PPI is in a good place* where it can produce an amp that does what the engineers want it to do without thinking twice about where to add the blue led's on the board that will light up the logo on the shell that is made for maximum bling. PPI, if producing an amp that loyalists can plug in and compare to the Art amps and LIKE when they do, can build the amp on old brown 70's PCB and stick it in an unpolished shell. _I've seen them do it.......... _. They weren't always Art's, but they were always PPI.

I was standing in a car audio shop in Dalton, Ga in the 90's when the first shipments of the PPI *Sedona* came in. Up to then, PPI could do no wrong. We were loyalists, die hards. We sat out front waiting on UPS like a dog waiting on the mailman.  When they arrived they were beautiful amps. Bright white with blue designs. We were almost convinced the lower price line wouldn't be so bad. We were never going to sell the demo models so we flipped them over and opened them up to see what the new amps were all about. SCREEECCCHHHH......... everything came to a grinding halt. What the hell did PPI do?!?! They LOOK as good as the other PPI, but what is this inside??? We, the people who breathe this stuff day in and out, knew from that point on we were living in the good days and those days were numbered. 

The old Art were built for mainstream, but they were so good they transcended to the niche market of collectors. These days niche markets are not near as taboo as back then and there is money to be had. So basically, I wouldn't be too scared of creating an Art amp that doesn't go straight to the mainstream $400 kilowatt market. As I recall PPI Art were never "inexpensive" anyway until the Sedona, so built it to be niche! Build it to meet and exceed the sound and power of the old amps, but if you fall short......... you will fail. So spend more time inside the amp than worrying about the design on the front.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

I disagree. THe mud that DEI dragged that, and many other names through for so long with product I wouldn't put in my daughters' pwer Wheels has left them a big hole to climb back out of. I think Grizz and everyone at PPI knows this as well. Can it be done? Absolutely. Will it be done by just slapping the PPI logo on anything they make? Not by a long shot. 

They are squarely on the right track if their work with the new SS Refs is any indication of things to come. I REALLY think they need to reduce the number of lines for each brand (particularly SS) and limit each brand to what each has historically been known for.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



audiogodz1 said:


> The fact of the matter is if you build an amp that performs as well or better to the old Art amps, you can leave it completely unpainted and stick a PPI logo on bottom and it'll still sell with loyalty based on it's abilities. PPI doesn't need advertising, it's not an upstart company. It doesn't have to be the flashiest amp out there. People know what PPI is.
> 
> The old Art were built for mainstream, but they were so good they transcended to the niche market of collectors. These days niche markets are not near as taboo as back then and there is money to be had. So basically, I wouldn't be too scared of creating an Art amp that doesn't go straight to the mainstream $400 kilowatt market. As I recall PPI Art were never "inexpensive" anyway until the Sedona, so built it to be niche! Build it to meet and exceed the sound and power of the old amps, but if you fall short......... you will fail. So spend more time inside the amp than worrying about the design on the front.


Amen. I just spent 5 hours carefully writing a passionate reply, agreeing with you. I deleted it accidentally, while checking the spelling. 

I cannot take the time to rewrite it -- it was good. And it was clear. 

*The summation would be this: I challenge Epsilon/New PPI to go above and beyond any of our expectations. Do not underestimate the intelligence and discernment of audio connoisseurs. Build a series really well, and you won't be looking for customers, they will find you. Anything else would be a waste of time, a disappointment to audiophiles, and a recipe for failure.*

There is a reason why JL Audio Amplifiers are referenced as what PPI would be if that spirit had been allowed to evolve. It is that the PEOPLE who are at the heart of JL are the same one who made Old PPI the respected company that it once was. Jeff Scoon, Bruce Macmillan, Darrell Chapman et al, continue the tradition with honor, experience, passion and integrity. if the string of ownership changes had not occurred, chances are the choice for state of the art mobile audio would still be clear, and the PPI name would still mean something great. 

Sedona was a long sad story for me -- I disagreed with the concept and execution of the Sale's Manager driven product, designed to meet a"price point," because "less than" has never been good enough for me. 

Suddenly, I was pressed to design the look of a new "lesser" product line, Sedona, and all of the support materials, from scratch, at the spur of the moment, with insane deadlines. I dropped everything, rushing in order to make it ready for introduction at the Consumer Electronics Show. I had just completed a huge body of work for "real" Precision Power, for CES, and it was Christmas time. I protested, not just because I was exhausted, or that it was an inhumane request, but because it was, in my opinion a bad direction for the company to take. Sales won. I did the work. It wasn't a bad series, it just wasn't PPI. There is a reason why the "Sedona" badging was much bigger than the "Precision Power" on those original amps.

That Christmas eve, when I was still working, Warren threatened to throw my computer and all the disks into the river, because he was furious. He didn't, but he should have. I should have said "no." 

The new PPI sales director had just arrived from another company, and brought with him their "philosophy" and "culture," a few of their employees, and an utterly foreign (to me) agenda. I guess the reason others at PPI listened to them was that the new sales people were "experts" were making a lot of money, so they must know what they were doing -- but it seemed so wrong. Note to self: "listen to first instincts."

Practically speaking, Sedona, and some of the private label work, financed "real PPI" to the point that we could experiment with bigger ideas, but I still feel that it diluted the PPI brand. I never brag about being involved with Sedona, I only quietly admit it.

I challenge Epsilon/New PPI to build it right, make it pure, and watch it rise above the pack. Have vision. Build on what was good about PPI, and make it better. That is what builds a good reputation. "Less than" isn't worth doing.

I have a bunch of real live horses outside, who need my attention, some weeds that are screaming to be pulled before they go to seed, my husband running the chainsaw, and a bunch of chores that have been piling up since this crazy Dave Brimer situation comedy/fiasco/tragedy entered my otherwise delicious life. -- So I have to leave this, as is, right now.

I send you all my best, with hopes that you will do more of what you love to do, and that you will do it with all your heart. That is what makes happiness.

xxoo Carolyn Hall Young


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series*



I800C0LLECT said:


> It seems to me that the leaders of this industry have very much been burned out by the every day indnividual who just doesn't care about quality...only appearance. There's too many examples of small business or even large companies falling prey to this consumer mentality. Hopefully Grizz can re-ignite the passion amongst the manufacturers. I've always thought that if "you're in the business to make money" then chances are your broke. My opinion is that people are in business because they have a product or service that people want; finding that niche market is another story


Ditto here, too. Thanks for your perspective. I hope that Grizz will be given the power and the funding to create something extraordinary, for Epsilon, and raise the bar for car audio. 

Maybe the industry could become so vibrant that it would draw people who are not currently mobile audio consumers-- look at Apple. Nobody needed an iPod.

xxoo chy


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



> *I challenge Epsilon/New PPI to build it right*, make it pure, and watch it rise above the pack. Have vision. Build on what was good about PPI, and make it better. That is what builds a good reputation. "Less than" isn't worth doing.
> 
> *I have a bunch of real live horses outside, who need my attention !*
> 
> ...


Well said, Carolyn !

P.S. Now go give the horses some attention


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> Amen. I just spent 5 hours carefully writing a passionate reply, agreeing with you. I deleted it accidentally, while checking the spelling.
> 
> I cannot take the time to rewrite it -- it was good. And it was clear.
> 
> ...


Wow, I have been glued to your posts in the last few days and this has been my favorite. The read story over at PPI. You remind me of the Pirates of Silicon valley with that story, how one brand pinned against another to make it outshine the last. When a company implodes its not good for any one. Longing to have the car audio of the Richard Lemay vision. When the original vision is taken over by greedy people this kind of disappointment happens to good companies. We do have some hope with the interest that Grizz has put behind PPI. I am very excited to do an all PPI build when returning home from my 4th deployment. 

CHY thank you for taking the time to tell us some great stories. Would love to hear more from you.
Brandon.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> Wow, I have been glued to your posts in the last few days and this has been my favorite. The read story over at PPI. You remind me of the Pirates of Silicon valley with that story, how one brand pinned against another to make it outshine the last. When a company implodes its not good for any one. Longing to have the car audio of the Richard Lemay vision. When the original vision is taken over by greedy people this kind of disappointment happens to good companies. We do have some hope with the interest that Grizz has put behind PPI. I am very excited to do an all PPI build when returning home from my 4th deployment.
> 
> CHY thank you for taking the time to tell us some great stories. Would love to hear more from you.
> Brandon.


Dear Bandon,

Thank you for your message. It is our job to shine. 

Grizz is sincere in his enthusiasm. He loves working on the sound system in his cars, and he "gets it."

I was talking with Don Ciardullo of Soundwerks in Scottsdale, Arizona, just this morning, about Richard LaMay. He is missed. Passion will find the necessary tools, it is what I talk about when I speak of the art of it. If you are avidly interested, you WILL learn all you need to know to create what you want.

May I ask where you are headed? Stay in touch. Please home safe and sound. We will be thinking of you. 
xxoo chy


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Brandon coudl tell you where he's going but he's not supposed to. Granted, that doesn't stop half of the morons from posting it on Facebook... It's an operational security thing. My wife and I are in the same boat. She's heading out for her 5th or 6th and I on my second. Luckily, she doesn't have to try and get an install done before then. 

I remember the commemorative issue of CSR (I'm pretty sure it was CSR) when Richard passed, the CAE issue for Bill Burton and the same for Bill Wolfe. All very sad days for anyone connected to the industry.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Dear Quality Sound,
I apologize for asking about Brandon's deployment. I was secretly wishing it would be some safe cushy place where drinks are served with little paper umbrellas in them. 

My family lived lived in Turkey during a revolution in the late 1950s and early 1960s. My dad was doing some contract work for a Technical Assistance Program in the State Department -- on loan from Pan American, for the Turkish Airline, THY. It was tied in to the military, somehow, because we had access to the PX and the military hospital in Ankara. 

When I start feeling too complacent about my life, I remind myself to be grateful that no one is shooting at me. 

I have never been in the military, but I do understand about security -- I did do some projects for LANL/ Los Alamos, so I am not entirely a babe in the woods. 

Everything I am trying to express sounds so clumsy, stupid and shallow, in light of what you face. I sincerely wish you all well. This must be beyond difficult for you. 

On the social networking sites: you would think people would be smarter than posting destinations. Connecting the dots isn't very difficult.

Thanks for writing. I send my best to you and your family.
xxoo chy


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



bkjay said:


> Oh Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Another stupid one.Now can they copy the amps internals or is that owned by the engineer who designed the amp?





Grizz Archer said:


> We could do that and a few people would dig it. But technology has changed radically over the last 15 years. The boards now are muchmore advanced. The problem is that they are not as cool looking with all the bigh bulky parts. This is not always the case. But I can assure you that some of the best amps out today are pretty boring inside.


I think that is what many don't get....they think bringing back PPI, Soundstream, Phoenix Gold, etc..of old is just a matter of doing what has already been done but.....

That is not what a rebirth is all about. Like Grizz said....much has changed.... in technology, manufacturing, and the marketplace. Good to see this display of integrity.

_As far as what should be done with the scrapped Art Series line......_

If you guys have the boards already done you might as well rebuild heatsinks so they can be released and sold. I say keep the theme in the humanities...i.e.... ancient and modern languages, literature, law, history, philosophy, religion, and visual and performing arts (including music). Maybe pull from the artistic nature of the old Art Series and the music/art themed and classy design of the Soundstream Picasso, Van Gogh, etc and introduce something like "The Music Series" for example. Work with Carolyn on some simple, modern, classy, designed artwork that is fresh but feels familiar.

Use the design of the modern automobile interior to come up with a design.....no need to go back....the Art Series was great and was ahead of it's time but move forward. If the boards are great then a good team effort should be able to pull off the rest.....Give the original artist the canvas to come up with something new!
http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/10/31/top-50-luxury-cars-interior/


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> Dear Bandon,
> 
> Thank you for your message. It is our job to shine.
> 
> ...


I sell the PPI brand, I way more than interested, I am addicted.

I am in the middle east, its not a big secret and I bet you could guess where I am. At the request of my superiors I cannot say exactly where. I fly C-130 aircraft and we fly everywhere. I am thankful for a country and generation who support what we do. (Speaking in generalities) You can support the troop even if you have a negative view of the current war, don't forget, troops go when we are called, we are not politicians, we just love our country and our families.

Thank you Carolyn

EDIT:


quality_sound said:


> Brandon coudl tell you where he's going but he's not supposed to. Granted, that doesn't stop half of the morons from posting it on Facebook... It's an operational security thing. My wife and I are in the same boat. She's heading out for her 5th or 6th and I on my second. Luckily, she doesn't have to try and get an install done before then.
> 
> I remember the commemorative issue of CSR (I'm pretty sure it was CSR) when Richard passed, the CAE issue for Bill Burton and the same for Bill Wolfe. All very sad days for anyone connected to the industry.


Good luck QS. I am over here every 4 months, we deploy non stop. Hope the best for you and your wife. God bless the US.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> EDIT:
> 
> 
> Good luck QS. I am over here every 4 months, we deploy non stop. Hope the best for you and your wife. God bless the US.


And to you and yours as well. 

Yeah, some AFSCs are REALLY getting hosed right now with ops tempos WAY out of whack with everyone else. I really hope they get it all sorted out or they're going to continue to lose good troops or those troops are going to keep losing their families. I'm lucky in that even though my AFSC deploys a lot I've been at bases that do not. My wife however, has not been so lucky and her AFSC just went critical so she's gone all the friggin' time.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> I sell the PPI brand, I way more than interested, I am addicted.
> 
> I am in the middle east, its not a big secret and I bet you could guess where I am. At the request of my superiors I cannot say exactly where. I fly C-130 aircraft and we fly everywhere. I am thankful for a country and generation who support what we do. (Speaking in generalities) You can support the troop even if you have a negative view of the current war, don't forget, troops go when we are called, we are not politicians, we just love our country and our families.
> 
> ...


I support our troops, and I hate that you are in harms way. I will turn 57 years old, this month. For context, I graduated from high school in 1971. The anti-war movement was huge. Many of us had thought that we really could change the world, and that our generation would not be sending the future generations into battle. 

Right now, I am reading a book written during World War II, in occupied France, entitled: Suite Francaise. It is in two parts, although the author intended to write four parts. She died in Auschwitz in 1942, at age 39, before completing her vision. As I read it, I am reminded that every generation has had the same aspirations as ours did. 

So far, it seems that the only progress we made is that more people recycle, fuel efficiency has risen in the average car, and civil rights are more fully respected. Our country is still at war. 

My dad was a Navy pilot in WWII. A family legend is he had sold his horse for flying lessons, run away with barn stormers. He then flew for Pan American, and the Navy, holding ratings on virtually everything from the flying boats to the 747's. He designed and built his own experimental planes, and raced them. Aviation is in my DNA.

I hope you all can do a more effective job making this whole world a better place. It is worth trying.

You are always in my heart, and on my mind. I respect your service, and wish you could be home.

XXOO Carolyn, 
Pan Am Captain Jack Hall's Proud Daughter

P.S. We love your avatar. xxoo chy


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> I support our troops, and I hate that you are in harms way. I will turn 57 years old, this month. For context, I graduated from high school in 1971. The anti-war movement was huge. Many of us had thought that we really could change the world, and that our generation would not be sending the future generations into battle.
> 
> Right now, I am reading a book written during World War II, in occupied France, entitled: Suite Francaise. It is in two parts, although the author intended to write four parts. She died in Auschwitz in 1942, at age 39, before completing her vision. As I read it, I am reminded that every generation has had the same aspirations as ours did.
> 
> ...


Wars have been a part of the world since its creation. They will never be over until the "final battle". Thank you again for sharing something very personal. I too come from a rich WWII heritage. I care to keep that story just for me though.  My kids are why I am here, I had other reasons before they were born but now its all for them.

I would rather settle down and open a small mom and pop shop in TX but right now I am too "type A" for that; maybe in a few years. I do miss my family more than anything but as you said Aviation runs in my blood.

Thanks for the avatar comment. Its perfect for an audio forum.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> Wars have been a part of the world since its creation. They will never be over until the "final battle". Thank you again for sharing something very personal. I too come from a rich WWII heritage. I care to keep that story just for me though.  My kids are why I am here, I had other reasons before they were born but now its all for them.
> 
> I would rather settle down and open a small mom and pop shop in TX but right now I am too "type A" for that; maybe in a few years. I do miss my family more than anything but as you said Aviation runs in my blood.
> 
> Thanks for the avatar comment. Its perfect for an audio forum.


Dear Brandon,

I appreciate the wisdom of your perspective, and the thoughtfulness of all your posts. Your character and manners stand out, and have contributed notably to this forum. 

I am wishing you and your family all the best. 

xxoo chy


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## astrochex (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Thank-you fertigaudio and others for your service. I appreciate your role as a "trash-hauler" pilot, transports are not glamorous, but they are so critical to the war. Stay safe.

Grizz - your integrity is so refreshing and encouraging. I hope your endeavors thrive. I wish more decision makers shared your character.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



astrochex said:


> Thank-you fertigaudio and others for your service. I appreciate your role as a "trash-hauler" pilot, transports are not glamorous, but they are so critical to the war. Stay safe.
> 
> Grizz - your integrity is so refreshing and encouraging. I hope your endeavors thrive. I wish more decision makers shared your character.


Thanx, but being honest should be the norm, not something we have to be suprised by. Anaheim? I grew up there. If you're ever in HB, give me a ring and we'll drop a brew or two...


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> Dear Brandon,
> 
> I appreciate the wisdom of your perspective, and the thoughtfulness of all your posts. Your character and manners stand out, and have contributed notably to this forum.
> 
> ...


I cant believe how much we have in common. The emails exchanged have brought me out of a rut I have been in. You have offered so much more than I had ever anticipated upon our first email. Love your work and always a fan.
Brandon.



astrochex said:


> Thank-you fertigaudio and others for your service. I appreciate your role as a "trash-hauler" pilot, transports are not glamorous, but they are so critical to the war. Stay safe.
> 
> Grizz - your integrity is so refreshing and encouraging. I hope your endeavors thrive. I wish more decision makers shared your character.


Thank you for the kind comments, I think.  I never cared for the trash hauler since most of my time is spent with many many ground troops. We move these guys everyday and we build a report with each other. I dont consider them trash. LOL, I know what you mean though. Cargoand troops are everything logistically. And we do it every hour of every day.
I will stay safe. Thank you much!


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Thanks, Brandon. 
There is always something to be grateful for.
xxoo Carolyn Hall Young


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## astrochex (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> Thank you for the kind comments, I think.  I never cared for the trash hauler since most of my time is spent with many many ground troops. We move these guys everyday and we build a report with each other. I dont consider them trash. LOL, I know what you mean though. Cargo and troops are everything logistically. And we do it every hour of every day.
> I will stay safe. Thank you much!


You're right, it was silly of me to use that term. I hear it get thrown around my workplace so it got stuck in my head.  My job depends on military transports so I am thankful for the job you do.



Grizz Archer said:


> Thanx, but being honest should be the norm, not something we have to be suprised by. Anaheim? I grew up there. If you're ever in HB, give me a ring and we'll drop a brew or two...


I agree 100%, but your frank admission is something I will never hear from the executives at my workplace.

It would be an honor to meet you especially since I am such a car audio noob.


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



astrochex said:


> You're right, it was silly of me to use that term. I hear it get thrown around my workplace so it got stuck in my head.  My job depends on military transports so I am thankful for the job you do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honor? Are you nuts buddy? There are guys on here that know alot more about amplifiers than I do. But if you want I will start a class just for you. It is called Acoustiks 101 and it is held at the Huntington Beach Brewing Company (since I am a member and get bigger beers for the same price). Cost of tuition is 2-3 brews per hour depending what's on tap. But not this weekend... I ripped my box and amps out of my Jeep yesterday on a whim and am rebuilding the whole back end over the weekend. Permission to enter the "room of brilliance" (my garage) costs a 12-pack of GOOD beer. (not being snobby - "Room of brilliance" is what they say on my Mark & Brian morning radio show). So if you feel like it, come, enter, drink and be merry! But I take your keys to make sure you do not leave hammered... If you're sober, you're free to leave the rubber room at any time... 

Good grief man, I think somebody sprinkled some crack on my toohbrush...


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## astrochex (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

^ damn, I was hoping you were a frost brewed, turn-it-loose-tonight, cold-filtered, lime-flavored beer kind of guy.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> Honor? Are you nuts buddy? There are guys on here that know alot more about amplifiers than I do. But if you want I will start a class just for you. It is called Acoustiks 101 and it is held at the Huntington Beach Brewing Company (since I am a member and get bigger beers for the same price). Cost of tuition is 2-3 brews per hour depending what's on tap. But not this weekend... I ripped my box and amps out of my Jeep yesterday on a whim and am rebuilding the whole back end over the weekend. Permission to enter the "room of brilliance" (my garage) costs a 12-pack of GOOD beer. (not being snobby - "Room of brilliance" is what they say on my Mark & Brian morning radio show). So if you feel like it, come, enter, drink and be merry! But I take your keys to make sure you do not leave hammered... If you're sober, you're free to leave the rubber room at any time...
> 
> Good grief man, I think somebody sprinkled some crack on my toohbrush...


I continue to be impressed with the generous exchange of knowledge on this forum. We all have much more in common than is immediately evident, not just the love of excellence in music/sound reproduction. The tone of mutual respect and appreciation is heartening, here. 

Remember Fertig Audio when you are considering your next equipment purchase -- we should support Brandon with more than just our words. 

xxoo chy


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



astrochex said:


> ^ damn, I was hoping you were a frost brewed, turn-it-loose-tonight, cold-filtered, lime-flavored beer kind of guy.


I'll admit, that when its really hot out, I will actually drink Bud Light Lime because it is so refreshing, but I do not consider it beer by my standards... My worst home brew will beat most commercially available brews...


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> Honor? Are you nuts buddy? There are guys on here that know alot more about amplifiers than I do. But if you want I will start a class just for you. It is called Acoustiks 101 and it is held at the Huntington Beach Brewing Company (since I am a member and get bigger beers for the same price). Cost of tuition is 2-3 brews per hour depending what's on tap. But not this weekend... I ripped my box and amps out of my Jeep yesterday on a whim and am rebuilding the whole back end over the weekend. Permission to enter the "room of brilliance" (my garage) costs a 12-pack of GOOD beer. (not being snobby - "Room of brilliance" is what they say on my Mark & Brian morning radio show). So if you feel like it, come, enter, drink and be merry! But I take your keys to make sure you do not leave hammered... If you're sober, you're free to leave the rubber room at any time...
> 
> Good grief man, I think somebody sprinkled some crack on my toohbrush...


if i were closer i would definitely take you up on that offer. i would even bring some of texas finest brew LONESTAR  or a bottle of some crappy belgian i like called chimay........... seriously though, are you replacing the sq eights or just going a different route with them?


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



roxj01 said:


> if i were closer i would definitely take you up on that offer. i would even bring some of texas finest brew LONESTAR  or a bottle of some crappy belgian i like called chimay........... seriously though, are you replacing the sq eights or just going a different route with them?


Man, what is with Texan's loving Lonestar? I did a training there 15 years ago and some clown had tears in his eyes trying to convince me that Lonestar was the best beer ever. Literally tears, then he wanted to fight me because I said he was an idiot and would now know a good beer if it opured itself down his throat! 

When I was in German, I got several friends and we drove about 8 hours to Chimay, Belgium. Friends that did not even like beer fell in love. I had 2 big mugs of each red, white and blue labels, each of which comes with chees made with that particular beer. All while sitting on their back patio looking at miles of rolling hill with cows grazing... It was orgazmic! BTW, the big bottle sell for about $2-3 which is alot better than $8-12 here! I even brew a Chimay Reserve clone that is identical in flavor but I put the candied rock sugar in for the boil!!! Insane? Yes, but it tastes the same and yields 16.11% ABV!!! Even I can only drink to big bottles before I'm throwing darts from the floor...


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



roxj01 said:


> if i were closer i would definitely take you up on that offer. i would even bring some of texas finest brew LONESTAR  or a bottle of some crappy belgian i like called chimay........... seriously though, are you replacing the sq eights or just going a different route with them?


All that yummy talk and I forgot about you 8 question. Is it bad to wake up and already be thinking about beer?

Anyway, there will be a new series between PC and Sedonna that will NOT be Art, obviously. I thought about moving the art speakers into that series, but it would seem weird. So, they will remain in Art Collection and we will leave the avenue oipen for a new Art Collection amplifier when the market can support it. But I am screaming like a little girl to get some copper on the new series black amps so they will match the PC components and SQ subs... Alson considering making the PC subs (not DS) have a copper dustcap/brace with copper motor decal and black basket to also match. The black and copper theme that I love so much is extremely well accepted. Thank God or I would have looked like an idiot after begging for it against everybody else's opinions... Whew! A.8SQ is remaining the same. In fact, I am putting 4 of them in my Jeep this weekend and going all active with 3 new amps! So excited!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Chimay - The Art of Trappist Beer and Belgian Cheese. 



> Welcome to the source of the Trappist beers and cheeses of Chimay.
> 
> Here, in this heaven of peace and silence where since 1850 Trappist monks have dedicated their life to God, products are made which, in themselves, gladden the heart of man.
> 
> ...


 Heavenly Beer - YouTube - Dr. Demonto - In Heaven There is no Beer

*Drinking song with beer pictures. enjoy and comment the name of your favorite beer.*


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Oliver said:


> Chimay - The Art of Trappist Beer and Belgian Cheese.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, I am an honest man and know my **** when it comes to beer. Obviuously there were some I have never heard of. I suppose my favoite one is the one that is in my hand, but from the ones I have seen and had, Kilkenny would me choice since I can get Guinness at a gas station. I drink different types in different seasons and depending on where I am at in the world. One thing is for sure, absolute worst two types of beer next to Budweiser/Coors/Miller crap, id anything from a Latin country and Italy. They just do not get it... Dr. Demento rules! I listented to that show when I was a kid...


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

i dont care how crappy or cheap they are ,i love my PABST and i love my LONESTAR! (im a cheap bastard:laugh however chimay is my favorite "real beer". i have also been drinking shock top lately belgian white made by michelob, good summer beer in my opinion. anyway back on track grizz are you going sealed or ported with the 4 sq8's? also curious what your current 2 sub enclosure specs are, since i will ultimately be useing the 2 sq8's i have in my jeep as well.


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Carolyn Hall Young said:


> I continue to be impressed with the generous exchange of knowledge on this forum. We all have much more in common than is immediately evident, not just the love of excellence in music/sound reproduction. The tone of mutual respect and appreciation is heartening, here.
> 
> Remember Fertig Audio when you are considering your next equipment purchase -- we should support Brandon with more than just our words.
> 
> xxoo chy


Carolyn I am really honored by that. Although only a few of my sales come from this site that is not my main purpose for being on here. I have learned and continue to learn so much from the people here. I plan on giving much more to this site when I return from my trip to the far east. This stuff just continues to be the one hobby I continually return to in my 30 years of living.  Hope all is well with your family and ranch. Miss your emails. 
Brandon.


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## Carolyn Hall Young (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



fertigaudio said:


> Carolyn I am really honored by that. Although only a few of my sales come from this site that is not my main purpose for being on here. I have learned and continue to learn so much from the people here. I plan on giving much more to this site when I return from my trip to the far east. This stuff just continues to be the one hobby I continually return to in my 30 years of living.  Hope all is well with your family and ranch. Miss your emails.
> Brandon.


What has been said in fertigaudio's post is exactly why I am saying that we should support this fine man -- Brandon Fertig, his family, and his company, Fertig Audio. 

I am recovering from a delightful and full week with family. We celebrated love and life. It was Warren's parents wedding anniversary, the sixth one since Warren's father died. Warren's terrific 93 year old mother, his sister, his cousin and my good sister, Kathleen, were all here. Warren's parents' anniversary falls on the same day as the anniversary of my birthday, August 25th-- but not the same year. 

xxoo with love,
Carolyn


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



roxj01 said:


> i dont care how crappy or cheap they are ,i love my PABST and i love my LONESTAR! (im a cheap bastard:laugh however chimay is my favorite "real beer". i have also been drinking shock top lately belgian white made by michelob, good summer beer in my opinion. anyway back on track grizz are you going sealed or ported with the 4 sq8's? also curious what your current 2 sub enclosure specs are, since i will ultimately be useing the 2 sq8's i have in my jeep as well.


Pabst?! Gross...

My pair were in about 1.6ft^3 tuned to 28Hz. My new one is 4.441ft^3 with an Fb of 34.1Hz and an F3 of 33.05Hz. Single 6" flared port.


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

hey grizz any pics of the changes to your jeep?


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



roxj01 said:


> hey grizz any pics of the changes to your jeep?


Not yet, got the box built. Need to put the flared port in, hopefully tonight. Got the PC coax real fill installed in the OEM rollbar locations and got the amps mounted. Each Tsunami speaker wire is 4 conductor of each color, so it takes a while to wire everything up sano. Done on Saturday at the latest... Box is 4.193ft^3 gross, 3.915ft^3 net. Tuned to 36.74Hz with an outside F3 of 35.12Hz with a 6" PSP port. Oughta be killer for 4x 8"...


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Why not call the new line of PPI amps and call them Warbird? dedicate them to those who serve.. do some rally cool screened artwork kinda like a USS Enterprise(starTrek) cross with a F22??


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



tnbubba said:


> Why not call the new line of PPI amps and call them Warbird? dedicate them to those who serve.. do some rally cool screened artwork kinda like a USS Enterprise(starTrek) cross with a F22??


I like the concept, but instead how about a matte olive drab color w/ black screened logos and text?


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



roxj01 said:


> hey grizz any pics of the changes to your jeep?


All I have at the moment is not here... http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3367339/2009-jeep-wrangler 

As far as non-audio related stuff. It was Olympic 4x4 Products for test fitting this morning for some sick new armor. I plan to a real photoshoot soon, just need to get a free moment...


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



tnbubba said:


> Why not call the new line of PPI amps and call them Warbird? dedicate them to those who serve.. do some rally cool screened artwork kinda like a USS Enterprise(starTrek) cross with a F22??


Interesting!


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



tnbubba said:


> Why not call the new line of PPI amps and call them Warbird? dedicate them to those who serve.. do some rally cool screened artwork kinda like a USS Enterprise(starTrek) cross with a F22??



Hmm...I bet you own a bat'leth and are fluent in klingon...


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## SQ Audi (Dec 21, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Warbird seems too close to Kicker's Warhorse 10kw amplifier.

But I do like the premise of paying homage to our serving military. How about the USO version and having one distinct version for each of our Armed forces.

Navy Blue

Airforce Silver

Marine Green

Army Khaki

something along those lines


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Grizz..... That jeep is absolutely incredible! Super jealous! I love the 4 8's I wish I didnt F'up my box for the pair I had  I dont think I could really fit a pair in a appropriate ported box as my center consold


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## astrochex (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> All I have at the moment is not here... http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3367339/2009-jeep-wrangler
> 
> As far as non-audio related stuff. It was Olympic 4x4 Products for test fitting this morning for some sick new armor. I plan to a real photoshoot soon, just need to get a free moment...


Armor? As in in underbody protection or are you planning on cruising Santa Ana?


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



SQ Stang said:


> Warbird seems too close to Kicker's Warhorse 10kw amplifier.
> 
> But I do like the premise of paying homage to our serving military. How about the USO version and having one distinct version for each of our Armed forces.
> 
> ...



That would be cool, but I don't think retailers are gonna stock multiple versions of the same unit like that. And can you imagine 10 years from now hunting the classified section looking for that last navy blue amp to complete your old school collection?

How bout instead something like this...a plain black heatsink, that would look good on its own. Then make the top with a slight inset in it. Then plastic panels can be bolted to it. This would open up a world of possibilities! Your tribute panels, of course. Then maybe someones fav rock brand? Or that old school logo? Or your car manufacturers logo? Plain plastic solid color(copper maybe?) Hell get CHY to issue some artwork for it! Some blank panels for peoples own artwork? Perhaps back lighting for some cool effects! This all started as a thought to bring back the art series...we all know that isn't gonna happen...so let each individual be the artist! 


...I wonder how bad harley-davidson is gonna hit you for licensing fees!


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



astrochex said:


> Armor? As in in underbody protection or are you planning on cruising Santa Ana?


All new bumpers, rock guards and a HD tire swing... No SA man!


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

glad I thought of it..LMAO.. all I want is one free amp! NAW.. give it to somebody who deserves it


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## jmacdadd (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

Sometimes being brutally honest isn't socially acceptable. I have never been one to divert my honesty and point of fact nature to sugar coat how I feel or say what I think someone wants or needs to hear. I won't start now for the sake of adding a post to this thread. This thread has some really good history and I hope I never run into Dave Brimer. I have never worked in the industry, but even I know that he didn't create these graphics (I mean, really, C Hall Young (C) is right on the endplates for crying out loud). If you are easily offended or easily bored, please don't bother reading the rest of this post.

I consider myself to be somewhat of an audio purist. I don't particularly agree with onboard crossovers in my amplifiers or built-in equalizers with pre-selected settings in my source units. Speaking of source units, I prefer not to have a built in amplifier, either. I mean, really, who do they think they are kidding when they say the source unit offers "high output 4x60 watts." Nothing truly good comes from a "high output" source unit.

I am about to take a trip back in time. Before there were Class D and Class T amps, the Class AB Mosfet Amps were king (there weren't really any other options at the time). I still remember amps with toroidal power supplies that you could literally fry eggs on. Although we have come a long way technologically, I feel that a lot has been lost in translation. Companies are in business to make money and that's the bottom line (no pun intended). However, I don't know what to think when I see "5500w" Class D amps that cost about the same as an A600 (back in 1993) and even sometimes much less (for those who like to buy on eBay). I simply can't believe the hype.

June, 1992: my first job at Arby's (making $4.25 an hour).
September, 1992: my first car (1981 Plymouth Reliant).
October, 1992: my first aftermarket tape deck (Pyle 2 knob and Pyle coax for the front doors and rear deck).
December, 1992 (Christmas Break!): my first "system" (I smoked the Pyle 2 knob. I got a Pioneer Premier CDP, added a Craig 260 for $99 and a pair of Pyle 12" subs at 2 for $99).
May, 1993: added a second job at McDonald's (making $4.50 an hour).
June, 1993: my second car (1984 Plymouth Horizon).
July, 1993: my second system (a pair of JBL GT 15" subs and another Craig 260 running one mono to each).
August, 1993 (happy birthday to me): hello local audio shop LAYAWAY program!
September, 1993: there goes my entire summer of hard work as my second system gets a real upgrade (welcome to my Clarion CD7770, Pioneer coax, a Coustix XM-3, an A204W and A600W).

Since then, I have only used Precision Power made amplifiers in any of my personal vehicles including the M/AM, Art Series, Sedona (APA/iQ/iQX), Power Class (PC) and of course the occasional more budget friendly Crutchfield or Philips Sound Labs amp in a pinch. There is something about these "Made in the USA" amps that really get me excited to get in my car to run across town to the grocery store or on a 1,200 mile road trip.

Although the graphics on the white Art Series amps have received their fair share of laughter, snickers and even ridicule over the years based on their appearance, there is nothing better than the music they reproduce. Warm, rich and vibrant, just like the graphics. In my humble opinion, no amp has ever been designed so beautifully for form or function.

It seems the Alma Gates may have made PPI "famous" and put them on the map with that Ford Bronco and the Power Class amps and subs (along with a dozen alternators)...however, shortly thereafter, the decline was swift and mighty. Carolyn Hall Young made the Art Series near and dear to my heart. I have had the luxury to have a few brief conversations with Carolyn. She was an innovator far ahead of her time. She is a true artist and deserves recognition far exceeding her work with PPI (or any other mobile audio company). She took a huge risk the day she presented the designs for the new Art Series amps to the PPI board. The transition from the light pastel designs complete with half moons, pyramids and even palm trees on the M/AM amps was amazing indeed. Even the .2 Art Series graphics just pop pop pop and make my heart race when I get one in hand that still looks amazing. The white amps are equally impressive mounted on an amp rack in my trunk as they are hanging on my wall (or on display in a galleria). Don't get me wrong, who would have thought to display the circuit board on the outside of the amp? For those that have seen these, the white amps that were screened in red or blue with the circuit boards were amazing (and very limited).

Fast forward, the year is 2003 and it's "2 Fast 2 Furious." Brian O'Connor has just left Tej's Garage in a very nice Nissan Skyline and what do I see before my eyes a the 3:30 mark of this movie? A trio of Rockford Fosgate subwoofers, some Phoenix Gold signal processors, and none other than a pair of gleaming white Precision Power .2 Art Series amplifiers (super fresh like some dental caps)! No matter how many times I pause this scene, I cannot figure out which models they are (maybe A404.2 and A600.2), but that is not what is important here. Still representing 7 years after the manufacture of these fine amps ceased and immortalized on the big screen. I don't know that I have ever seen any other enthusiast noting this milestone previously, but when I saw that on the big screen I almost dropped a load right there in my theatre seat. The .2 Art Series, well, not to say they aren't true PPI, but the addition of the beefed up power supply and output sections seemed to have lost some of their musical warmness (more output comes with a price, right?).

Don't get me wrong, I have followed the rise and fall of PPI during their multiple transitions of ownership. The unfortunate trials and tribulations. The legal documentation, the internal battles, the loss of a great American company. What DEI did to the PPI name broke my heart. To keep it brief, what I have seen over the years is a great name in American audio history being used to sell subpar equipment to the masses (hello PPI 4240- I just never understood where that line of PPI amps originated). 

And, yes, even I got marginally excited when I read that the "new" PPI was going to release a nostalgic Art Series. However, I knew in my heart (after seeing the release of the Power Class and Sedona amps) that it just wasn't going to be the same...it couldn't be under any circumstance. What I see today is a lot of flash followed by a lot of fizzle due to selling equipment based on appearance and not performance. Does powder coating or painting the basket on my sub make it work any better or last any longer? Does making my amplifier look like a spaceship (complete with lighting, really?) help it to outperform an amp from another manufacturer? You can polish a turd, but it's still just crap.

Through the years I have learned no saying more important in business than this: "keep it simple, stupid." Every penny adds up during the design, manufacture, and distribution process. To be profitable, depending on market and margins, for every penny spent you better get at least 5 pennies back. Flashy products, glossy literature, fancy packaging, etc. all adds to the cost and ultimately the retail price. Seriously, just give me a plain cardboard box, black and white manual, and a product that will last me more than 6 months. If it happens to fail during the warranty period, make it a hassle free process. If it fails after that, make it cost effective to repair or replace it (if possible). A good example of keeping it simple, elegant and classy is to look into what Elemental Designs has been doing. Skip the retail markets (distributing to the middle man just increases the cost to the user group). Sell the gear factory direct. If it's junk, at least I won't have to pay true retail for it so I won't be as disappointed. And, if it's really good, word of mouth carries a lot of weight these days... 

Here's a quick, free lesson: there is one thing that doesn't cost anything in business (as in it's free)? Positive word of mouth advertising. However, negative word of mouth advertising is VERY expensive. With all of the social media options out there today (Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, YouTube, etc.) one negative experience has the potential to reach tens of thousands of users. Please, just sell me a great product at a fair price...let me get my money's worth.

I don't really want to talk about 13.5" subs that cost $750. I especially don't want to talk about square subs, either (really, what makes this seem like a good idea?), but I haven't given JL a dime since they stopped supporting the original W6 (hello, these subs put them on the map). I may be partial, since I had (6) 15W6 subs powered by a hefty pair of A1200s back in 1995. In 2005 when I cracked open the seal on the boxes of new a trio of them (backups) and found the foam surrounds to be dry rotted I was more than heart broken to learn that rebuild kits weren't available as the product was no longer supported. It's never been a thought to try one of their amps, even with the form PPI guys there.

Not that it matters, or that anyone cares, but if you're still reading, I still have that A204 and A600 I bought back in 1993. The packaging has been lost. The amps are scratched, gouged, ding'd and dented. However, they still work and that speaks volumes for the hard work, engineering, manufacturing, and shear love for mobile audio and accurate musical reproduction that went into them. They cost me a few month's pay, but they were an investment in my audio future. Back in the 90's you got what you paid for and nothing less. I haven't looked back and I choose to spend my money on old school gear that I trust in, rely on, and know will give me back everything that I put into it and then some. I don't know that there is any real future for the new PPI, but I will continue to revel in the past. And, I have to say, the new Power Class amps would look much better with some white plugs and would also really help out some old schoolers to restore their beloved amps if they were available at a reasonable price.

The last thing I have to say is that a price cannot be put on perfection. To see in this thread that the new PPI couldn't get the monies inline to restore the graphics from this legendary line of PPI amps seems to be rather <enter choice of expletive>. It' all for the better since the guts and/or performance most likely wouldn't justify the appearance, anyway. The PPI as we knew it during the pioneering days of mobile audio is long dead and done and will not have a resurrection in my lifetime...if ever. We all just need to face the reality and move on..until I win the lottery that is and can afford to do this thing the right way for the next generation of mobile audio enthusiasts!

P.S. If you're not paying $1 per watt for an amp, then you're not getting anything worth having, anyway.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

is that a dollar a watt retail or eblow.woofblow etc price??

is zapco worth $4 a watt? or even $2 a watt used?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

jmacdadd, I feel your nostalgia. I too had my share of original W6 trio's. They discontinued them to evolve their product, and at the time, the newly released 12w3 was a superior sub to the W6. The new W6 and W7's are vastly superior to the original W6. To believe otherwise is similar to some of the guys in the hot rodding community that are still clinging to the idea that the original chevy small block is superior to the new LS motors (coming from someone that still has a genI smallblock due to cost, and lack of conversion needed). 

The same goes for amps. I'm all about nostalgia, and I own more art series amps than 99% of people on the forum, but to think they're automatically superior is like denying that technology progresses. I own art series because they take me back to my youth. They still look different than anything else, and they obviously last. They do sound good. Better than the current JL stuff (what I consider the closest thing to a new art amp)? Come on! I would be willing to bet money that most of us have never even been able to perform a fair test to prove what sounds better one way or another. Different speakers, different tuning, different cars, different music. 

It's all personal preference. The O/S Arts are fantastic amps, and last eon's. That doesn't mean some of the better end new stuff won't stand the test of time as well. Only one way to find out... stop being biased and try some of it! 

I'd love it if 1993-2001ish time returned, but it never will. 2011 is here. Start buying quality gear. Stop buying disposable (cheapest $) goods, and support the companys that advance our hobbies and stand behind their products.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> I'd love it if 1993-2001ish time returned, but it never will. 2011 is here. *Start buying quality gear. Stop buying disposable (cheapest $) goods*, and support the companys that advance our hobbies and stand behind their products.


*It's the 21rst century - too late for this* 

Get some cheap ass asian products from the internet { bottom line price}, and let's see if we can run some more reputable quality name people outta da business. 
*
Sucks that Genesis is back up and running - let's get them next !!*


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> jmacdadd, I feel your nostalgia. I too had my share of original W6 trio's. They discontinued them to evolve their product, and at the time, the newly released 12w3 was a superior sub to the W6. The new W6 and W7's are vastly superior to the original W6. To believe otherwise is similar to some of the guys in the hot rodding community that are still clinging to the idea that the original chevy small block is superior to the new LS motors (coming from someone that still has a genI smallblock due to cost, and lack of conversion needed).
> 
> The same goes for amps. I'm all about nostalgia, and I own more art series amps than 99% of people on the forum, but to think they're automatically superior is like denying that technology progresses. I own art series because they take me back to my youth. They still look different than anything else, and they obviously last. They do sound good. Better than the current JL stuff (what I consider the closest thing to a new art amp)? Come on! I would be willing to bet money that most of us have never even been able to perform a fair test to prove what sounds better one way or another. Different speakers, different tuning, different cars, different music.
> 
> ...



That was such a golden period of time


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> jmacdadd, I feel your nostalgia. I too had my share of original W6 trio's. They discontinued them to evolve their product, and at the time, the newly released 12w3 was a superior sub to the W6. The new W6 and W7's are vastly superior to the original W6. To believe otherwise is similar to some of the guys in the hot rodding community that are still clinging to the idea that the original chevy small block is superior to the new LS motors (coming from someone that still has a genI smallblock due to cost, and lack of conversion needed).
> 
> The same goes for amps. I'm all about nostalgia, and I own more art series amps than 99% of people on the forum, but to think they're automatically superior is like denying that technology progresses. I own art series because they take me back to my youth. They still look different than anything else, and they obviously last. They do sound good. Better than the current JL stuff (what I consider the closest thing to a new art amp)? Come on! I would be willing to bet money that most of us have never even been able to perform a fair test to prove what sounds better one way or another. Different speakers, different tuning, different cars, different music.
> 
> ...


Extremely well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I personally (and this is going to catch hell) never caught the over hype about the old school art amps... Were they well built? Extremely! where they better sounding then most at the time? I dont think so, myself. I still love em though just dont think they need there own forum????

I am not sure what jmacdadd was really saying...I found it extremely contradicting...... One minute he was saying you had to pay top dollar for high quality and then he was saying dont pay more then 50cents a watt??? Does he realize what that amp would cost if it were built exactly as is today??? And who the hell would pay that for it?????????? Not enough to keep a company afloat! Anyone who has tried some of the newer stuff would not give the old a second thought! If you put the new ss ref amp on a table with an equal old school ref amp and told me I could take one of them I would take the new one all day long! Why? Because I have actually owned both and the new refs beat the **** out of the old! I agree with you especially on the fact that its super unlikely to have many people actually put new against old.... I did put an old ref against the new the first week I had the new version though.....(now tech specs were taken though...simple switch out) I know YOU specifically think I am a "Grizz" nuthugger but I do believe they have done a GREAT job with both SS and PPI considering the market and the mass requests (FYI we are no where near the mass!!!!!!!!!!!). Gotta try em to know though!


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## Grizz Archer (Apr 3, 2009)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> jmacdadd, I feel your nostalgia. I too had my share of original W6 trio's. They discontinued them to evolve their product, and at the time, the newly released 12w3 was a superior sub to the W6. The new W6 and W7's are vastly superior to the original W6. To believe otherwise is similar to some of the guys in the hot rodding community that are still clinging to the idea that the original chevy small block is superior to the new LS motors (coming from someone that still has a genI smallblock due to cost, and lack of conversion needed).
> 
> The same goes for amps. I'm all about nostalgia, and I own more art series amps than 99% of people on the forum, but to think they're automatically superior is like denying that technology progresses. I own art series because they take me back to my youth. They still look different than anything else, and they obviously last. They do sound good. Better than the current JL stuff (what I consider the closest thing to a new art amp)? Come on! I would be willing to bet money that most of us have never even been able to perform a fair test to prove what sounds better one way or another. Different speakers, different tuning, different cars, different music.
> 
> ...


I love you! You get it! I swear, Gary Springgay put it best in an article last year that specifically talked about OS products. Awesome stuff AT THAT TIME, and still good today, but technology does progress. But so many people refuse to accept this...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

My only real beef with newer product is most of it feels and looks cheap. There are some exceptions, obviously, but build quality is, to me at least, a HUGE factor. JLs HD amps exude quality out of every pore (if they had them, that is). The W7 and W6v2s are the same way. They're hefty, solid-feeling, work extremely well, and for the most part, don't break. 

Then you have something like some of PPI's new stuff. Some of it looks fantastic. The Art SQ-series is a perfect example. On the flip-side is the PC sub line. It _looks_ cheap. I know the theory behind it but it really don't look good. The PC DS is far better looking. I think the two best looking amps are the PDX and the Black Ice. The others aren't horrible, but most of the line has lost some of it's class.

I really think if most companies went back to the cosmetice used in the early to mid-90s, and had performance to back it up, they'd sell better. I know I avoid product, no matter how good it performs, based on aesthetics. Again, this is all IMO and is not limited to PPI.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

iF IT DONT GO.. chrome it!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



Grizz Archer said:


> I love you! You get it! I swear, Gary Springgay put it best in an article last year that specifically talked about OS products. Awesome stuff AT THAT TIME, and still good today, but technology does progress. But so many people refuse to accept this...



Who here thinks their 1996 era PC is superior to one built today?


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Who here thinks their 1996 era PC is superior to one built today?


It was just more amazing in its day than the one you run today and curse at for being "slow".


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Who here thinks their 1996 era PC is superior to one built today?


Up until a 2007, I know a local company that had over 300,000 items in their inventory. Want to guess at what platform their inventory system ran under? MS-DOS!

Why? Because the modern version looked pretty, but ran dog @ss slow with their amount of inventory items. Going further, those inventory items were also combined into various groups to make different products/variations of products for a total combined potential inventory of over 1,000,000 items. If a customer wanted one of the "kits" the modern replacement program would take as long as 10 to 15 minutes to see if all the inventory pieces were in stock, whereas the MS-DOS variant would tell you as soon as you hit enter! 

Regardless, the fancy Windows and Linux based SQL server packages running on the most expensive servers that money could buy couldn't hold a candle to the MS-DOS version that was compiled in assembly language when it came to speed.

How's that for an "old versus new" argument?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



msmith said:


> It was just more amazing in its day than the one you run today and curse at for being "slow".


You need to bring back the W5!!!!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



ChrisB said:


> Up until a 2007, I know a local company that had over 300,000 items in their inventory. Want to guess at what platform their inventory system ran under? MS-DOS!
> 
> Why? Because the modern version looked pretty, but ran dog @ss slow with their amount of inventory items. Going further, those inventory items were also combined into various groups to make different products/variations of products for a total combined potential inventory of over 1,000,000 items. If a customer wanted one of the "kits" the modern replacement program would take as long as 10 to 15 minutes to see if all the inventory pieces were in stock, whereas the MS-DOS variant would tell you as soon as you hit enter!
> 
> ...


Not the best. 

Basically says they tried one newer inventory program and called it quits. Sometimes when it's something that simple, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! 

I'm pretty positive that someone can write a better program today than 10 years ago, especially with the available processing power. Think of how games have evolved.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*



WRX/Z28 said:


> Not the best.
> 
> Basically says they tried one newer inventory program and called it quits. Sometimes when it's something that simple, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
> 
> I'm pretty positive that someone can write a better program today than 10 years ago, especially with the available processing power. Think of how games have evolved.


They entertained offers from several inventory companies out there. One of them guaranteed an improvement with speed, and even flew in a team full of individuals to convert the existing program to convince the owners to switch. Oddly, a $15,000 server, and a team of 15 company guys couldn't get their product to run faster than the old trusty on a modern platform.

Also, when I say MS-DOS, it was running on windows server 2003 using a custom coded MS-DOS emulator. I used to work with one of the guys who coded the first iteration of that inventory package, and he wrote the initial code in the late 70s/early 80s. I just find it funny that it stood the test of time and was still outperforming "better" products as of 2007.

Of course, I don't know what they are running as of now because I exited the realm of public accounting and auditing in 2007.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

*Re: Public Apology From Mr. Grizz Archer of Epsilon re: PPI Art Series & Dave Brimer*

hey my commodore 64 will kick any quad cores arse!

and my PONG rules!


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Just a heads up to all that was involved with this nightmare. David (Dave) Brimer has been joining Precision Power groups on facebook after Carolyn Hall Young's death.
I don't know what he's up to but beware cuz if he's on FB, he's likely returned to DIYMA as well.

Bret
Darth SQ


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Darth SQ said:


> Just a heads up to all that was involved with this nightmare. David (Dave) Brimer has been joining Precision Power groups on facebook after Carolyn Hall Young's death.
> I don't know what he's up to but beware cuz if he's on FB, he's likely returned to DIYMA as well.
> 
> Bret
> Darth SQ


I can not put into words what I think about good old Dave as it would be huge COC/TOS violation...


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## ParDeus (May 10, 2014)

ChrisB said:


> I can not put into words what I think about good old Dave as it would be huge COC/TOS violation...


That's funny, because when Dave is mentioned, I always think "Ah, that 'ol COC TOS is back at it again".


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