# '95 Accord Wagon... first DIY setup



## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

This car audio thing's really got me addicted and I've decided to upgrade from my first and present system to an active 4-way one... I don't have many of the components yet, but I am hoping this thread can also be a place for me to ask questions and hopefully get some help from y'all without cluttering up your beautiful forums too much 

The present system consists of...
Pioneer DEH-P7800MP HU
Kicker RS 6.5" components up front
Kicker Comp VX 12" sub
Kicker ZX700.5 running the whole thing

All the Kicker stuff can be explained by the great deal I got on it a year ago, which just so happened to launch me into this hobby... but I definitely need to upgrade. The midbass is nowhere near where I'd like it and I feel like the midrange is really sloppy on more complex music (think Tool)... but I haven't really heard any SQ setups to compare it to aside from a set of Germaniums in an F150's stock locations... so I was hoping you guys could help me with driver selection this go-round. All I know is that I desperately want an improvement.

I'm gonna stick with the same HU, despite the horrible noise problems it's giving me  and will keep the kicker amp to run the midbass, midrange, and sub. Right now it's bridged to the comps, but it makes around 90-100x4 @4ohm plus 500x1 @ 2ohm. I also have an old Alphasonik Q2150 lying around that I hope to use for the tweeters... somewhere around 75x2 @ 4ohm... maybe less. If you don't think this will be enough power, I'd definitely like to know so I can jump on those low-priced Blaupunkt amps.

As far as drivers go, I was thinking:
LPG 26NA aluminum dome tweeters
Vifa MG10 4ohm mids(can only find the shielded ones  )
RS180-4 midbasses

Of course, any and all suggestions are welcomed as this is where I'd really like to get some advice from the community here. If it sounds like I'll just be switching drivers out a couple months down the road anyway, I won't mind upgrading... but one very important factor here is that I'm a student with very *limited funds* 

Processing will be done via an Alto Mobile Drive 30 which should be getting shipped my way any day now... I'm aware of its bad reputation here, but the price was right.

I know this was long-winded, but thanks for reading... and thanks in advance for any help


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

And because a thread doesn't belong in the gallery without pics, I'll show you a bit of what's in there now...

A shot of the door and a-pillar...









...a better shot of the door...









...and with the skin on it...









...running wire to these doors is a real pain in the ass...









...and a view looking back from the driver's seat...










And now to highlight the awful FR of the Kicker comps out of the box...
...a before shot of the FR...









...what my EQ looks like now...









...and the FR after EQ'ing...












I'm planning on putting the mids in the kicks, so here's a couple pics of what I'm working with there...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Oh very nice! I especially like the work on the doors.

With an RTA it also helps to apply a weighting curve... perhaps a B curve.


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## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

You have clean nails. :blush: 

No seriously, nice work so far.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Vestax said:


> You have clean nails. :blush:



He said it was his first DIY, give it time, they will look like they have been thru a meat grinder like mine


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

npdang said:


> Oh very nice! I especially like the work on the doors.
> 
> With an RTA it also helps to apply a weighting curve... perhaps a B curve.


Not sure what that means... could you elaborate?


I should've taken pics of my hands after running those wires... I ended up having to wipe a fair bit of blood off of various parts of the doors :blush: I'm also missing a little chunk out of my arm where the dremel slipped while cutting the plexiglass for the doors


So... any feedback on the drivers I have in mind? I'm gonna put the daytons in the doors and the mids in the kicks... don't think there's enough room to make them enclosed, so will they be OK if I leave the back of the pod open? I'm really liking the a-pillar mounts for the tweets... stage is pretty wide, a little too close for comfort, but backup vocals are somewhere out over the hood. Will the aluminum LPG's do well with that same placement?



:edit: With the upgrades I'm planning, is it likely I'll get a significant improvement in SQ? I want to make all of this worth the effort, ya know?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bangandow said:


> Not sure what that means... could you elaborate?
> 
> 
> I should've taken pics of my hands after running those wires... I ended up having to wipe a fair bit of blood off of various parts of the doors :blush: I'm also missing a little chunk out of my arm where the dremel slipped while cutting the plexiglass for the doors
> ...


Weighting allows the meter specific bands of the audio spectrum... well, make them less sensitive in certain bands

http://www.search.com/reference/A-weighting

I am still wearing a scar where a pneumatic 3" cutoff wheel bucked back into my finger, it cut a perfect little swath. Scared the hell out of me! For running wires like that there's no substitute for a peice of 10Ga solid wire with the ends folded over used as a poker and a liberal amount of dish soap on the wires to aid them thru. They also make something (can't remember the name) that is used to lubricate wires when pulling thru conduit, it's water soluble and non-staining..... Think KY Jelly!

As for improvement in SQ? it's all in your tuning. Put the meters away for now and use the most accurate instruments you have... YOUR EARS! Remember that the meter has one mic, your head has 2... with grey matter in between to desipher the information. A mic will show things that are insignificant, like narrow dips or peaks caused by relfections that will go away when the mic is moved few inches. Software works great for some things such as locating delay times, etc, or REALLY looking for problems if you have an untrained ear (I worked as a monitor engineer, if you ring a freq I can grab it on a 1/3 octave EQ without looking at the EQ) It's a good skill to learn. somewhere I have a neet frequency locator learning tool, it's been a long time!

Chad


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

I've found thus far that the RTA works out better than my ears  Still don't understand how weighting can be applied to using an RTA, but I'm definitely very happy with the changes it's led me to make to the EQ... I would have never come up with those settings using my ear alone.

I know tuning is everything, but I really feel like I've reached the limits of the hardware I have right now, and am wondering if the drivers and mounting locations I've picked out will be limiting the amount of improvement I can gain through new hardware, or if my new limiting factor will become my tuning abilities... and given a good amount of time spent tuning with an unskilled ear and a RTA, will I likely notice an improvement? 

Is there anything wrong with having the MG10's in kickpods with open backs?

I definitely appreciate the kind words, but I'm really looking for suggestions/opinions/constructive criticism here...


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

...also, is the limited power of the amps I have something to worry about? Should I set aside some money for amps, or spend it on some other part of the install?

And I really like my midbass... can those Dayton's give me that kick in the chest I'm looking for? Their low power rating has me worried... :\


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Bang... there should be an option somewhere to apply a weighting in your software.... the way RTA's measure sound (it has to do with the amount of time it measures and averages) if you don't apply a weighting a flat response will sound extremely bright with no bass.

Use the rta for now, it's a great learning tool and it helps you identify problems much faster than your ears (if you're not an expert).


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Come on people... 200+ views and only 5 responses? I made this thread primarily to get feedback and suggestions... both of which I want desparately!

npdang, I've been reading and rereading the instructions and different guides for TrueRTA and haven't come up with anything yet pertaining to weighting... closest thing I found is a "house curve" feature... two presets there: small room and large room... "large room" has steeper drop-offs approaching the low and high ends of the spectrum.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bangandow said:


> Come on people... 200+ views and only 5 responses? I made this thread primarily to get feedback and suggestions... both of which I want desparately!


I guess my main suggestion is that although I admire your drive, I think a 3 way is over your head at this point. Tuining a 3 way is WAY more difficult that a 2 way up front and you have a self admitted lack of ear training. To top that off you mentioned a lack of budget.

That being said why not go with a mid-bass that can play high like a Seas CA18RNX or another choice and a tweet that can play fairly low? Dont match them up, say with a mid with a cap of 2K and a tweeter that can only play to 2K, give yourself some fudge room to play with. This is why I chose the CA18RNX and the Morel. They have a BIG overlap in capabilities. This "fudge room gives you a wide span of tuning possibilities without worring about arrival time of 6 drivers and many different crossover points. At first a 2 way will put more "fun" in tuning as opposed to work. You will get desired results faster. Then as you progress go with a mid. This method would be less discouraging in the learning process, cheaper, simpler, and faster.

I tune large multi-way systems for a living, I still decided on a 2 way front stage in a car, it seemed the logical way to go, especially wanting to take a simple stockish approach. My headunit can do it without external processing, I can get it done with one 5 ch amp, it's neat and effective. I can also use a myriad of different tunings, hell, I have "seasonal" tunings in presets! Don't need a mid and it sounds just fine, in fact seamless. I have a feeling that it would not be as seamless WITH a mid, yes I could chose different drivers that would allow more output if I added a mid BUT I also would need another amp, more processing and a slew of custom fabrication that MAY actually hinder it in an SQ way. 

Many here run a 3 way rig up front, it's cool, but for my app it's easier to not change the car a whole bunch, it IS still a daily driver (and has a clutch and a dead pedal I will not lose) If you look in there now you see an alpine head unit and MAYBE the tweets if you know what you are looking for.

Just my $.02

Chad


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## Preacher (May 8, 2006)

What kind of noise problems with your pioneer; I had a 7500 that developed noise problems and I did a temp fix by wrapping a wire around the shield of all the rca outputs. This is a common pioneer problem. There was a link that had pics, but I couldn't find it. I recently sent mine back to be fixed through best buy and haven't hooked it up. 

If you're getting the processor I'd suggest keep your drivers for now and run them active and get to know the processor. You'll have fun squeezing every ounce of sq out of the drivers you already know then taking the time to pick up some replacements. 

I agree with the others here to run 2way first.


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Finally some feedback  thank you both. 

I had planned on running the kickers active for a couple weeks anyway to get the hang of the processor and to allow myself some time for fabrication. One of the main goals of this upgrade is to give myself lots of tinkering to do... and while I know a 2way would be much simpler, I think it might be too simple, given that objective. Also, I'm really weary of the kind of improvements I could get by swapping out the drivers I have now for, say, a pair of CA18RNX's and 27AFNC/G tweets... would it really be worth it? 

Granted, I've never done a 3way active, and you guys have, but do you really think it'll sound _that_ bad using an RTA to set it up? I know there's _lots_ of tuning involved... but that's much of what attracted me to it.

As far as the budget goes... I added that in more to account for the lack of $100+ drivers and the fact that aesthetics will be taking a back seat in this install... also to explain why I'd like to avoid the loss taken with a 2way temporary if I'll ultimately end up upgrading to 3way. I certainly don't want to skimp on anything to the point that I'll just be replacing it a month or two down the road.

...and in regards to the noise problems with the pioneer... I tried the RCA grounding thing... that brought the noise down to a bearable level. I'm not sure where it's coming from now, but it's definitely something I'll be pursuing. Crutchfield swears up and down that they've never heard of pioneers having noise problems  

Ultimately, most of the fun I get from this hobby comes from the process instead of the result, which is why I jumped on this project... but if the general consensus is that I'm getting in way over my head, I'll swallow my pride and compromise on a 2way... either way, I appreciate your honest opinions.

As always, thanks for the input


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

I agree w/Chad on the 2 way setup.....I'm running a 2way in the car and van and really like them.....I've had them both installed for many months and still find myself tinkering and tuning here and there....

BTW, there are dozens of threads over the last few months dealing w/2 way suggestions,etc so don't be afraid to do some searching. You'll likely find more info and direction even faster than waiting on folks to reply......do some research and you'll figure out what to do faster.... 

Nice job BTW...I always wondered how the RS series sounded since the SS got a lot of good reviews...or maybe I'm confusing them w/just being expensive, I dunno....

Jeremy


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## Preacher (May 8, 2006)

I still think a 2way is a better idea for a first diy/active setup. After you get your main installation and fabbing work done change out to the rs180's. Then you wouldn't have to go backwards. Use your processor to to play with the 2way with your existing tweeters. It won't really work, but you'll learn a lot about your processor and the 180's doing it this way. I'm like you the tinkering is a lot of the fun. 3ways add too many variables at once so it takes some of the fun out of tuning. Really getting to know your setup like this will give you an edge when you go all the way. 

You can change to the lpg's next (don't blow them trying to match to the 180's), but trying to make these work will give you solid boundaries of what the midbass and tweets can do and what they need. After you've achieved this your kick panel will be done you can add a mid and have fun with it. 

Since it sounds like you're a tinkerer I'd suggest making your kickpanel to house a 4.5 with a place for a tweet and as you get your mids attach them to a removeable baffle of hardboard (covered with mat). This way you can switch out a variety of mids througout the future without starting over. 

HU Noise - Go to Ratshack and get a thin piece of copper and bore holes for the rca's to make a plate that will slip over the backplate as like the temp wire fix- Add one more hole and add a wire there for chassis grounding the copper plate. I'd contact pioneer directly; if you can get through the flaming hoops they're quite helpful. 

Still I think you'd be impressed with the simple 2way seas combo you pointed out.


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

Yeah, like the others said go 2-way active first. I did but only ran that system for a couple of months. The DIYMA bug will bite you too and you'll be swapping out equipment often... specially going active 4-way.


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Alright, well I've dispatched an email to solen.ca asking if they have any G18RNX/p's left... still haven't decided between the 18RNX and the 180-4s, but I'm leaning toward the lower priced (and lower resistance) Daytons.

The LPG doesn't seem like it would fare well at all in a 2way, and I'll be selling the Kickers as soon as I have drivers to replace them, so I think I'll go with the aluminum seas neos for now... if I swap in a midrange down the road, I don't imagine the neos would sound _too_ bad 

My only concern left for now is the power... Should I go ahead and grab one of those Blaupunkt amps while I have a chance, or is my power situation OK for now? It seems like I'll be upgrading inevitably, so I'm really thinking about jumpin' on one of those


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

niceguy said:


> Nice job BTW...I always wondered how the RS series sounded since the SS got a lot of good reviews...or maybe I'm confusing them w/just being expensive, I dunno....
> 
> Jeremy


For the price I got em at (100) they're not bad in my setup... without a reasonable amount of EQ'ing, I can't imagine the tweeters being tolerable in any mounting other than coaxial... they're harsh as hell, and I get the impression that the goal of the RS line was to keep up with loud bass  I tried them in the stock dash locations and it was just awful... I don't understand how someone could spend 400bucks for a pair of these


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## Scott Dodge (Nov 6, 2006)

Good looking work. It's good to see another 5th gen accord here. Isn't it nice how well built these cars are?

btw- are you sure it's a 95? I thought 95's exclusively came with a 5spd manual (always thought that was a little odd).


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Small update... nothing big... sorry, but no spectacular pictures to add 

Scott, yeah it's definitely a '95... and I'm definitely wishing all 95's were manual

The Drive 30 arrived to me DOA and the last surviving shop that does work on those said they couldn't fix it, so I took a bit of a loss and sent it back to the previous owner and get a refund... should've heeded the warnings here  As an upside to that, I purchased an Alpine H701 and DVA-9860 from another member here!! This thing has got to be the greatest toy ever invented  I've had alot of fun so far tuning and tweaking everything, and I'm definitely glad you all talked me out of a 3way front stage... this has given me plenty to play with thus far.

Seas CA18RNX's are now filling the position the Kicker mids previously occupied...








At first, with only 30-40 watts going to em from the kicker amp, the main improvement I noticed was an extreme gain in midrange clarity... hearing new things in songs I've heard a thousand times always puts a smile on my face  With the arrival of a new amp today, though, I was able to put some real power to these things... all I can say is WOW. It sounds/feels like there's a drum set in the car with me. I listened to the drum jam in "Do What You Like" by Blind Faith and I think I soiled my pants a little... if you're not familiar with this song, definitely give it a listen 

Snapped a couple pics today before beginning work... a big problem of mine is that I immediately forget about the camera after I've started working on the car... surely I'm not alone there.



A picture of the absolute zero clearance left with the mids in the door... when I get a chance I'll try and get one with a better view of just how close the magnet is to the window track...








After looking over that picture and noticing the odd metal funnel I'd created around the speaker while making room for it, I decided to go through and saw off the excess metal... no turning back now, I guess. That metal was doing odd things to the midrange and I'm glad to be rid of it.


I would take a pic of the new amp and 701 in place but, for real, I think the wiring nightmare back there would make you guys cry. 

Remaining work... 

Finish these... and get the neo tweets installed









...need to hash out some kind of wiring diagram and make some sense of the rat's nest that's back there right now... I may come back by with a pic of it just for novelty's sake, but it's _really_ a sad sight...

Main Priority: come up with some inconspicuous way to mount the amps and processor while at the same time making them a complete ******* to steal... any ideas?


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## thatkidbob (Apr 20, 2007)

I've got a 94" accord (a sedan, but the doors are identical) and i *have* to know...

how thick are your mounting baffles for the CA18RNX's? I've been shopping for mids and focusing on shallow mount drivers like morels because of what i've heard from other accord owners and read on the internet....

Those RNX's are almost 3 1/6 inches deep, and i'm thinking that i might be able to cajole the Ascendant poly mids lying around in my closet into those doors if the woofers you've got fit...

thanks 
-Robert


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

thatkidbob said:


> I've got a 94" accord (a sedan, but the doors are identical) and i *have* to know...
> 
> how thick are your mounting baffles for the CA18RNX's? I've been shopping for mids and focusing on shallow mount drivers like morels because of what i've heard from other accord owners and read on the internet....
> 
> ...


 Dunno about the accord but I got them in the Civic. It was a battle though. Right at a 1" spacer. Moved down towards the kick panel a bit to deal with the door card curve. It's tight because you are fighting the depth of the driver and it's excursion capabilities. It's just misses the door card at full excursion by a RPH and clears the door internals by a bit less than 1/4"

I thought I was going to go nuts!

Chad


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## thatkidbob (Apr 20, 2007)

chad said:


> I thought I was going to go nuts!
> 
> Chad


i DEFINITELY know the feeling...

i just measured my poly mids and did the math... they're almost exactly the same size as those seas woofers, so i'll definitely be able to fit them. If i can find out how thick his baffles are i'll be able to skip a lot of the trial and error portion that goes with shoehorning huge drivers into little doors. I'm hopeful that by doing so i'll be able to finish the job while retaining a full head of hair... lol


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

thatkidbob said:


> i DEFINITELY know the feeling...
> 
> i just measured my poly mids and did the math... they're almost exactly the same size as those seas woofers, so i'll definitely be able to fit them. If i can find out how thick his baffles are i'll be able to skip a lot of the trial and error portion that goes with shoehorning huge drivers into little doors. I'm hopeful that by doing so i'll be able to finish the job while retaining a full head of hair... lol


I started at 1.5" then shaved the spacers down in a table saw a bit at a time till I was happy.

Chad


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## thatkidbob (Apr 20, 2007)

chad said:


> I started at 1.5" then shaved the spacers down in a table saw a bit at a time till I was happy.
> 
> Chad


i don't have a table saw 

and i'd be loath to do it with a belt sander lol


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Bummer


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Sorry, trout fishing prevailed this weekend 

For the spacers, I used 3/4 MDF, but the depth is down to 1/16th of an inch... I found that if I used too little clay on either side of the baffle, it would be grounding out on the window track (I think) so it's a little bit of trial and error. If you weren't going to use clay, 1" might not be a bad idea, but I don't know for sure. I've also moved them down and away from the original speaker hole and cut out some metal that was getting in the way... I found a good trick to be cutting your ring and then putting it up inside the door and closing the plastic skin down on it... that way, with the grille cover removed, you can experiment with where to put the ring... I'd be afraid of the speaker clearing the door skin, though, if it weren't in the absolute bottom corner that the plastic will allow.


If anyone has any feedback or (especially) suggestions on how to mount the amps/processor with security being the chief concern, I'd really appreciate it.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Having had that same car for quite a while, I can tell you that the W18NX is the maximum depth you can fit in the doors, with the RNX drivers fitting quite nicely with just a 3/4" mdf baffle and maybe a tiny bit of clay.

Also I'm not sure if the big hole in the bottom right of the door was covered? You can remove the plastic cover on the door light and that should allow you to cover up the big hole which dramatically improves midbass output in my experience.

As far as the weighting... just aim for a curve with a downward sloping top end and a rising bottom end. Tuning for a "flat response" will give you pretty thin, bright, sound.


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Update time... I'm in the middle of a three-week hiatus between semesters and that means only one thing... fishing!!









Oh yeah... and working on the car!
Last week I tore the interior down so I could deaden the floor and rerun the cluster*$#@ that was my wiring. Here's some before pictures...

















Looking better already with that carpet gone... I tossed the old one and pulled the carpet out of my donor car... powerwashed it and set it aside for later...









60 square feet of eDead v1^2 later...

























Started rerunning wires...

















Put down 2 layers of ensolite on the floors and put a piece of MDF down for the 701 to mount to underneath the passenger's seat...









New amp rack for the back...









Road noise has been severely cut  In the next week I hope to get the roof done and try and figure out something to do with the sunroof... Then the only major holes in my sound shield will be the windows and firewall... and I'm already looking suspiciously at the dashboard... wondering how accessible the firewall is once it's removed  

The wiring around the amp rack has been cleaned up a little since the pictures, but I still need to go in there with some loom... may get around to updated pictures of all that... maybe...

Next step: mids. I really feel like I'm asking too much from the CA18RNX and I'm not getting good results crossing the neos much lower than 3.5(may have to double check that number), so I've got my eye on the TG9's... in the meantime, though, I'm sure I can eek out plenty more performance from the equipment I have.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

is this the back of your box??



Couldn't help it.


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah yeah... it'll get carpeted soon. 

All this talk of IB around here has me thinking, though... I'm picturing a shelf covering the cargo area, edge up against the back seats and the other three sides--like the cover on there now, but wooden and sealed along the edges-- with a 15" of some kind suspended right in the center.


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Oh yeah, made some more progress today deadening the roof... nothing worth taking pictures of. Goddamn sunroof renders any improvement just about pointless though 

Picked up some wire loom... gonna tidy things up back there when I get a chance.


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

Update time... instead of studying for my exam tonight, I've spent all day messing with kickpanels... for someone with little woodworking skills and no fiberglass skills, I'm pretty damn proud of them 

























































Sorry I suck at remembering to stop and take progress pictures... you've all seen the process before, though...

Obviously there's a good deal of finishing work left to do, but I think they'll look great after I smooth out some wrinkles and get em painted... most importantly, though, is that it's sounding much, much better with the minimal tuning I've done.

Despite the fact that nobody reads this thread, I wanted to show that a halfway decent job can be done by someone with no fabrication skills and only a dremel and jigsaw on hand... so fret not if you lack the skills some of these guys have

I'll be back with finished pictures when I get around to it...


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## aneonrider (Apr 28, 2007)

ugh, maretts

Those are for solid wire.

Use butt connectors if you must.


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## the other hated guy (May 25, 2007)

dude...if you are willing to cut.....there is so much room in the kick panel cavities it's scary.....I got a 96 myself.... tons of room!!!!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

the other hated guy said:


> dude...if you are willing to cut.....there is so much room in the kick panel cavities it's scary.....I got a 96 myself.... tons of room!!!!


Subs up front FTMFW!


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## the other hated guy (May 25, 2007)

chad said:


> Subs up front FTMFW!


lol....no....but the skaaning 5's are almost as big


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

the other hated guy said:


> lol....no....but the skaaning 5's are almost as big


How far can you get into the area? As in how large of a truly sealed enclosure could you squeeze in there?


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## the other hated guy (May 25, 2007)

chad said:


> How far can you get into the area? As in how large of a truly sealed enclosure could you squeeze in there?












this is how big the skaaning is compared to it's dyn counter part










so I'm guessing .35-.45 cubes per side....


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## bangandow (Mar 3, 2007)

What did you do with the fusebox on the drivers side and whatever it is behind the passenger kick panel? I didn't want to start relocating those things just yet since I didn't even know if I was gonna be able to pull off the fiberglassing.

And yes, the wire nuts are just temporary


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## the other hated guy (May 25, 2007)

bangandow said:


> What did you do with the fusebox on the drivers side and whatever it is behind the passenger kick panel? I didn't want to start relocating those things just yet since I didn't even know if I was gonna be able to pull off the fiberglassing.
> 
> And yes, the wire nuts are just temporary


actually what I did was very simple...unbolted it from the kick area...bent the bottom tab in a 90 degree fashion...and fabbed a bracket out of aluminum stock I got from home depot and made a larger 90 degree bracket for the top and bolted both brackets into the factory holes...so instead of the fuses facing like they are from factory..the face down when you look up into the dash...I had the reroute a few wires but I did not have to cut or extend anything...now my car is a coupe with less wires...so if you do have to extend something it will prolly be minimal...


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