# Preferred House Curve for HLCD



## aroonkl (May 21, 2017)

I read Hanatsu's "*How to: Get the most out of your system" *about Target Response Curve is different between systems.








How to: Get the most out of your system


Checking in to see if you'll update this thread any time soon. If you can add anything about acoustical phase it would be appreciated. I always seem to have some sort of phase issue and not completely sure where it's at. Probably over a few bands between sub and midbass frequencies. I've...




www.diymobileaudio.com




He mentioned Target Curve for good sound would be different between Mid mount high in A pillar or low in Kick panels.
His graph also shows some different to JBL and Audiofrog Curve. I tried his curve with quick set up by Helix auto-Eq. The result is pretty good. I feel it less harsh than JBL.

I would like to ask HLCD guys, specially one who got system nail down to great SQ. What is your Preferred House Curve for HLCD?


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## aroonkl (May 21, 2017)

Anyone?
Or if you could share your curve after tuning?
I started as a newbie and spent 20+ times on JBL. At later stage, it got better than when I started. But I am not quite happy. It sounded too bright. Later I put Umik-1 mic away and ordered a new Audiofrog set. After tuning with AF calibrated mic, CD and Andy's procedure, the sound much improved. But I still feel there is harsh to my ears.


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## aroonkl (May 21, 2017)




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## aroonkl (May 21, 2017)

There are little bump on 3.8, 4.8, 13.9 KHz. I brought down -1.5 to 2 DB already but forgot to capture the graph. The green line is Audiofrog Target curve.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

I shoot for a flat response above 250 to 400 hz with a rising response to +12 to +20 at the bottom. 

I do however bring the following down from flat typically 2kHz -1 to 2 2.5 kHz -2 to 3 3.15 -2 to -3

How you do the measurements and where you have the microphone makes a large difference. I like to move the mic in a figure 8 where my head would be in the plane of where tip of nose is and do a slow average for 10 seconds or so. This gives results that match how I hear it much better.


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## aroonkl (May 21, 2017)

Eric,
Thank you for detail. And for 5kHz = go back to 0 dB again? Also from 6kHz to 18kHz= taper down to -6dB like Audiofrog curve or do you prefer less slope to negative dB?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

The top end is done by ear but I shoot for flat typically without a roll off. Measurment technique is important and miovng the mic in a figure 8 pattern and taking 10 second averages is important.

5Khz is going to be by ear once done like everything else. When using RTA and pink noise flat.


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## Cutaway (May 5, 2020)

aroonkl said:


> I would like to ask HLCD guys, specially one who got system nail down to great SQ. What is your Preferred House Curve for HLCD?


Sorry, dumb question but what is "HLCD"?


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## Blu (Nov 3, 2008)

HLCD = *H*orn *L*oaded *C*ompression *D*river


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Eric Stevens said:


> The top end is done by ear but I shoot for flat typically without a roll off. Measurment technique is important and miovng the mic in a figure 8 pattern and taking 10 second averages is important.
> 
> 5Khz is going to be by ear once done like everything else. When using RTA and pink noise flat.



Im more of a visual learner. Could you possibly draw an example of your curve?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Im more of a visual learner. Could you possibly draw an example of your curve?


flat line from 200-20khz 
gradual rise from 160 to 20hz til 20hz is 10-12db above 200hz

basically take the harman curve and flatten it from 200hz instead of having the roll off

the Harman curve actually sounds pretty good with horns but needs a bit more top end


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

what Mic said


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

the only issue is sometimes , depending on how measurements are done, is that the end result is really "bright" sounding. in that instance. bring down 12k 3-6db .
Flat from 200-2k is probably the most important area to really focus on for overall detail and clarity for the system. above and below that there is some margin for a gradual roll off or upward slope but if 200-2k isnt relatively flat stage and imaging will be skewed as well as overall tonal balance


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

the way you measure and how you use the microphone can affect the measurements and how they correlate to what we hear. I like to take 10 second averages while moving the microphone in a figure 8 pattern the size of your head in the listening position a few inches forward of where your ears would be. I store the averaged curve then make adjustments then remeasure until I get the results I am after.

If its forward or harsh in the upper vocal area cut 1 to 3 dB in the 2.5 and 3.1 Khz area


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Mic10is said:


> flat line from 200-20khz
> gradual rise from 160 to 20hz til 20hz is 10-12db above 200hz
> 
> basically take the harman curve and flatten it from 200hz instead of having the roll off
> ...


I completely agree 

I’ve been messing around with eq work and impulse responses just fiddling around and learning and a flat response yields a much better impulse..... anyway I think I’m on board now with paper flat above where the room picks up.

All of the music and the harmonics are much much more in tune with itself... nobody and I mean nobody can get a snare snap without being flat flat.... and the presence is just killer...

I think if a system dosent sound good flat there’s an install problem somewhere where a tilted response masks.... especially reflections, and too high PLDs


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

But what about psycho acoustics and our sensitivity to diff frequencies? I know for a fact that flat 200-20k would be obnoxiously bright


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Mic10is said:


> flat line from 200-20khz
> gradual rise from 160 to 20hz til 20hz is 10-12db above 200hz
> 
> basically take the harman curve and flatten it from 200hz instead of having the roll off
> ...


I completely agree

I’ve been messing around with eq work and impulse responses just fiddling around and learning and a flat response yields a much better impulse..... anyway I think I’m on board now with paper flat above where the room picks up.

All of the music and the harmonics are much much more in tune with itself... nobody and I mean nobody can get a snare snap without being flat flat.... and the presence is just killer...

I think if a system dosent sound good flat there’s an install problem somewhere where a tilted response masks.... especially reflections, and too high PLDs


Jscoyne2 said:


> But what about psycho acoustics and our sensitivity to diff frequencies? I know for a fact that flat 200-20k would be obnoxiously bright


If you have a bunch of early reflections, it would be , otherwise just bright and natural. 
Music is bright, it’s like this .... 

So In most installs , it’s a trade off of staging that’s farther away for realism....

Flat especially in the midrange vocals are real sounding, everything much much more real and live sounding... and it’s is recording dependent. Get an old sceffield or telarc cd and holy crap flat sounds nice.... way way way nicer than a 1.8db tilt , and btw 1.8db isn’t THAT much more bright ... 

I attribute your Spotify and other streaming apps that suppress midbass for compression the biggest culprit to “too bright” 
Like I said, dust off your old CDs from the 90s and test again


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Jscoyne2 said:


> But what about psycho acoustics and our sensitivity to diff frequencies? I know for a fact that flat 200-20k would be obnoxiously bright


If itstoo bright when flat its caused by the response in the time domain. Might look or measure flat on the RTA but in reality it isnt flat and sounds bright and harsh, this is because of reflections and/or poor measurement technique.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Another big thing that hasn’t been mentioned that I think we all are eluding to in bits but is the ole no more than 3db per octave. Which is loose imo but still hold true...

If your response is flat between octaves and no more than a single variable within each octave of no more than 3db, it will be a variant of a Smooth response...

I’ve seen curves that are almost the smiley face and sounded smooth and natural, and these were iasca cars from a long time ago and on an old 3055a or the sort , but still they were winning cars... I remember this was in an article years ago in ca&e about this and I remember years ago trying it and it is true but there’s only one real good option for your car and your acoustics etc


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