# Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?



## 2010hummerguy

I see the upcoming Helix DSP Pro has been mentioned in the Helix DSP thread but I'd like to start a new discussion for this dsp. Anyone have info like pricing, DAC/DSP chip #'s, opamp specs, IO capability, etc.? I will possibly be in the market for a high end DSP and want to consider all options before committing to my final solution. Thanks in advance!


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## Huckleberry Sound

I'm reading!!!


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## subterFUSE

All I know is what has been posted on the Helix facebook page.
But I'm planning to put this in my car ASAP.

It's supposed to be released this month.


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## 2010hummerguy

Cool, I was not aware of the Facebook posts. Here's what they've reported so far:

10 output channels at 6v
56 bit DSP chip
96khz
Built in sampling frequency converter gfor up to 192khz input
Up to 8 channels of low/high level inputs
Optical/coax digital inputs
2 channel AUX input
Expansion slot
30 band eq per channel
.25db eq steps
3.5mm TA steps
10-44khz response
0.000568% THD
116db SNR digital input
108db SNR analog input
Crosstalk >90db

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brax-Helix-Match-by-Audiotec-Fischer/83821504828?ref=ts&fref=ts


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## ErinH

I have one on order and was told by my local dealer the realistic ETA may be December. Initially the Facebook page said September, IIRC.


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## Huckleberry Sound

Thats cool.
That is right about the time money from gifts start rolling in!!!


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## subterFUSE

ErinH said:


> I have one on order and was told by my local dealer the realistic ETA may be December. Initially the Facebook page said September, IIRC.


Awww man. That really stinks for me. I'm up against a serious time crunch to get my system upgrade complete before I move out-of-state. No chance I can wait that long. Will have to install the PS8 I have waiting on the sidelines.


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## ErinH

Just get the current helix. Unless you really need 10 channels as that's the biggest difference. That's what I run. The only real reason I'm upgrading is to run rear fill.


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## Huckleberry Sound

ErinH said:


> Just get the current helix. Unless you really need 10 channels as that's the biggest difference. That's what I run. The only real reason I'm upgrading is to run rear fill.


We will notice people will make the jump to the Heix Pro. Which is fine if you plan on using all the functions of it.


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## subterFUSE

ErinH said:


> Just get the current helix. Unless you really need 10 channels as that's the biggest difference. That's what I run. The only real reason I'm upgrading is to run rear fill.


I was hoping for other upgrades, actually. Like more than 2 presets for switching between settings, more digital inputs and a better controller solution.

I am going to be running a MoBridge DA1 and an Audison BitPlay HD as my sources. Ideally, both would run digital... but that really depends on the DSP. If I use the PS8 then I'll have to get a DAC for the MoBridge because there is no way to use 2 different digital sources on that unit.


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## Hanatsu

Wow... finally a 10ch DSP. I'm so getting this when it's released. Saves me the hassle of tuning rear channels from the P99...

I assume it's a true parametric EQ?


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## subterFUSE

Hanatsu said:


> I assume it's a true parametric EQ?


Yes. It will be at least a 30 band parametric EQ. And it's possible there will also be phase angle adjustments independent of time alignment. The sub channel will certainly have that, but I wouldn't be surprised if all channels did.


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## thehatedguy

If it had 30 bands parametric EQ and phase on more channels, then there wouldn't be anything like it on the market for the car.


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## A-Ron

Sub'd!


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## Huckleberry Sound

I just received contact that they will release it by the end of the month.
Time will tell and we will see.


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## A-Ron

I need to find a dealer near New Orleans... Anyone know of one?


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## wdemetrius1

What's the cost?


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## miniSQ

Huckleberry Sound said:


> I just received contact that they will release it by the end of the month.
> Time will tell and we will see.


any idea when the 3.0 software will be released?


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## subterFUSE

wdemetrius1 said:


> What's the cost?


Expected to be around $1000


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## Huckleberry Sound

I will be curious to see if they remove the previous version of the processor from there line up.


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## miniSQ

Huckleberry Sound said:


> I will be curious to see if they remove the previous version of the processor from there line up.


doubtful they will replace a $600 processor with a $1000 processor and eliminate the $600 one. 8 channels should be fine for 90% of the people.


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## SkizeR

Is there any this this can do that the other helix dsp can't do? (Besides the ten channels)


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## 2010hummerguy

db increment and THD are both improved with the Pro according to their updates. Not sure what else...


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## Coppertone

I agree that 90% of the people will be fine with the regular one. It's the elitist that will take it to the next level with the Pro. Either that or those who convince themselves that one day they will run 10 channels ( hint hint ) lol.


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## SkizeR

Architect7 said:


> db increment and THD are both improved with the Pro according to their updates. Not sure what else...


Is that really worth the extra 400?


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## rton20s

SkizeR said:


> Is that really worth the extra 400?


Maybe, maybe not. But the two extra channels might be worth it for some.


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## miniSQ

Coppertone said:


> I agree that 90% of the people will be fine with the regular one. It's the elitist that will take it to the next level with the Pro. Either that or those who convince themselves that one day they will run 10 channels ( hint hint ) lol.


so let me think this thru...10 channels.

Front 3 way...plus stereo sub...plus rear passive?


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## 6APPEAL

Sub'd


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## subterFUSE

New post on Facebook.

Says there will be several HEC Modules to add features like:

Extra Optical Input
Extra Optical Output
Bluetooth Streaming Module


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## 2010hummerguy

The BT module will have AptX lossless codec support!!! Very cool!


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## subterFUSE

DSP Pro has the same 2 presets that can be saved on the unit as the current Helix DSP.

But they are planning a new display/controller unit by the end of the year which will offer up to 20 preset selections.


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## Huckleberry Sound

Here is some information!!!
Now who is going to get this.
Retail is about $1000.00.
Will sell in stores for about $950.
They will make sure to hit most with an install ticket on this one.


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## ErinH

still getting one.

heck, I may get a couple for my home system.


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## Hanatsu

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Here is some information!!!
> Now who is going to get this.
> Retail is about $1000.00.
> Will sell in stores for about $950.
> They will make sure to hit most with an install ticket on this one.


That's like a standard price for any decent DSP in Sweden, don't complain xD

Both Alpine H800 and JBL MS8 costs above $1100 here ^^


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## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> That's like a standard price for any decent DSP in Sweden, don't complain xD
> 
> Both Alpine H800 and JBL MS8 costs above $1100 here ^^


Just buy it on'line from across the pond. Even with 24 hr FedEx delivery and assuming 20% duty you should still save some.

For all the love the Helix gets I could never understand why the EQ is in +/- 1 db steps, wow that is really coarse!! This is the reason I never upgraded my dsp spoiled rotten by the +/- 0.3db on the Bit processors. It makes a huge difference imho.


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## subterFUSE

sqnut said:


> For all the love the Helix gets I could never understand why the EQ is in +/- 1 db steps, wow that is really coarse!! This is the reason I never upgraded my dsp spoiled rotten by the +/- 0.3db on the Bit processors. It makes a huge difference imho.


DSP Pro has .25dB steps.


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## Hanatsu

sqnut said:


> Just buy it on'line from across the pond. Even with 24 hr FedEx delivery and assuming 20% duty you should still save some.
> 
> For all the love the Helix gets I could never understand why the EQ is in +/- 1 db steps, wow that is really coarse!! This is the reason I never upgraded my dsp spoiled rotten by the +/- 0.3db on the Bit processors. It makes a huge difference imho.


Everything from the US gets stuck in customs. 25% Tax + 5-20% custom fee lol


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## AVIDEDTR

Erin let us know how this goes. I won't go near it until its proven stable!


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## ErinH

Of course.


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## miniSQ

My HelixDSP does everything i need it to do, but i am hoping to be able to get the 3.0 software update, and be able to be able to be compatible with the new remote.

But neither of those 2 things would tempt me to move to the DSP Pro if they don't work with the older HelixDSP.


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## GTBqv.au

miniSQ said:


> so let me think this thru...10 channels.
> 
> Front 3 way...plus stereo sub...plus rear passive?


That's what I want to do with my install. This is brilliant for me. Now all I have to do is get one to Australia

Mind you, we need is to convince someone to go 12 channels

front 3 way...plus stereo sub...plus rear active


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## SkizeR

Why would u need or even want stereo sub?


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## sqnut

subterFUSE said:


> DSP Pro has .25dB steps.


Yeah but think of everyone who bought the earlier unit and are stuck with the coarser resolution. Unless Helix is giving everyone a software upgrade aka apple. I mean it's something that could easily have been done in the C-DSP / P-DSP models.


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## coolmind

sqnut said:


> For all the love the Helix gets I could never understand why the EQ is in +/- 1 db steps, wow that is really coarse!! This is the reason I never upgraded my dsp spoiled rotten by the +/- 0.3db on the Bit processors. It makes a huge difference imho.


I've been with bitten for over a year and when i change to helix dsp with the same settings the difference was huge.The Helix sound more alive,cleaner, give's you the feeling that you have more power in your system than before, i am in love with it!!!!!
Don't wait just do' it(Nike :laugh


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## sqnut

coolmind said:


> I've been with bitten for over a year and when i change to helix dsp with the same settings the difference was huge.The Helix sound more alive,cleaner, give's you the feeling that you have more power in your system than before, i am in love with it!!!!!
> Don't wait just do' it(Nike :laugh


I've been with the bit10 for about six. My bit10 has the random hiss issue. Happens sometimes when I have the volume cranked. A simple shut down and restart cures it and it's not that frequent either. 

I've invested way too much time in tuning at this resolution to get the sound to a certain point. Don't want to relearn tuning at 1 db resolution and then spend another few thousand hours dialing it in. I'm not switching dsp till I can _exactly_ transfer my eq settings to the new dsp. Not sure how you could transfer your bit10 setting to the helix unless you only used the eq in +/- 1db steps on the bit10.

The reason why you get the feeling of more power on the Helix is because you're making changes at +/- 1db. You'll hear a much bigger difference at that resolution than you will at +/- 0.3 db.

The bit10 is going to go belly up for the final time in the not to distant future. I'll probably give the Helix Pro a look. It has a lot of cool features but stuff I don't really use. I'm more of a manual tuner.


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## ErinH

So what makes the helix Pro a not so good choice for a "manual tuner"? I think everyone involved in this thread is a "manual tuner". So what is it the bit10 has for a "manual tuner" the helix DSL doesn't?


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## ImK'ed

SkizeR said:


> Why would u need or even want stereo sub?


Im guessing he means sub output left and right output? I know mono amos sum internally anyway


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## Hanatsu

The 1dB increments haven't been that much of an issue to me, got the P99RS as source and can fine-tune 0,5dB +/- there 

Still.. it would be nice to have that 0,5dB in the software. Less than that isn't necessary imo. Rather have 1dB increment gain and parametric EQ than 0,1dB gain and GEQ.


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## sqnut

ErinH said:


> So what makes the helix Pro a not so good choice for a "manual tuner"? I think everyone involved in this thread is a "manual tuner". So what is it the bit10 has for a "manual tuner" the helix DSL doesn't?


IMHO some of the strengths on the Helix include, it allows you to dial in the curve you want, you measure something and just flatten the peaks in one go, even the measuring process itself. I'm sure there's more that I'm not even aware of.

You can't do any of that with the bit10. But it's more intuitive for someone like me who after measuring to a certain point, hears the sound and goes "definitely need to cut 1.6 by 0.5 db", "nope not enough, just a touch more", so another 0.3 db more, that's perfect. Now to cut the graininess at 1.25 khz, cut 1.5db. Wait that's too much so raise it 0.3 db and round it off by cutting thickness on vocals a bit so cut 300 by 0.5db. Now the thick grainy biting vocals are better. 80 of tuning work is on the eq and for me resolution is very important imho.


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## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> The 1dB increments haven't been that much of an issue to me, got the P99RS as source and can fine-tune 0,5dB +/- there
> 
> Still.. it would be nice to have that 0,5dB in the software. Less than that isn't necessary imo. Rather have 1dB increment gain and parametric EQ than 0,1dB gain and GEQ.


....lol so now I know why you're using the p99 as a source

If you're used to tuning at +/- 1db that's the sensitivity your ears are settled in to. Now if you change the eq to +/- 0.5 db, it will take your ears a while to settle in before they can tell better/worse with good accuracy. Same thing again when you drop down to 0.2-3 db. It takes a while for the ears to get used to that sensitivity. But once settled you will _absolutely_ hear a difference even at the 0.2-0.3 db sensitivity.


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## Hanatsu

< (0,2dB) > Hear a difference... well yeah, we're talking very subtle differences here though. Below what I care about really. I'm not such a hardcore audiophile xD


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## ErinH

sqnut said:


> IMHO some of the strengths on the Helix include, it allows you to dial in the curve you want, you measure something and just flatten the peaks in one go, even the measuring process itself. I'm sure there's more that I'm not even aware of.


I've *not one single time *used the RTA feature on the helix. So, obviously it's not mandatory. Which means the Helix is no less "manual" than what you're doing with the bit10. It's just a bonus in the software. No different than using REW or another piece of software to measure your system.


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## ErinH

Hanatsu said:


> < (0,2dB) > Hear a difference... well yeah, we're talking very subtle differences here though. Below what I care about really. I'm not such a hardcore audiophile xD


heck, move your head 1/4 of an inch and it doesn't matter anymore. at some point there is certainly a limit on the benefit of the high resolution. I'll be happy with 0.5dB, but beyond that, I personally don't see the necessity. That's not the selling feature for me.


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## sqnut

Hanatsu said:


> Below what I care about really. I'm not such a hardcore audiophile xD


I'm not trying to be one 




ErinH said:


> heck, move your head 1/4 of an inch and it doesn't matter anymore. at some point there is certainly a limit on the benefit of the high resolution. I'll be happy with 0.5dB, but beyond that, I personally don't see the necessity. That's not the selling feature for me.


Sure, beyond a point it's moot cause response, ta etc will all change when we move the head slightly, not to talk of different ear positioning and alignment every time we get in the car but yet we have repeatability. A good tune will sound good every time we get in the car. From purely a tuning stand point finer resolution is better imo, ymmv.


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## AVIDEDTR

I run stereo subs at home and car.
Sub sonics is also stereo and I blend my subs with my midbasses to take the load off them not to kill them at high volumes


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## A-Ron

Any clue who will offer these once they arrive in the states? I don't have a Helix dealer anywhere near me that I know of.


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## ndm

AVIDEDTR said:


> I run stereo subs at home and car.
> Sub sonics is also stereo and I blend my subs with my midbasses to take the load off them not to kill them at high volumes


I do too.


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## sqnut

AVIDEDTR said:


> I run stereo subs at home and car.
> Sub sonics is also stereo and I blend my subs with my midbasses to take the load off them not to kill them at high volumes





ndm said:


> I do too.


You don't need stereo subs. Almost all recorded content below ~90hz is recorded in mono.


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## xconcepts

Damn it and I just got the original Helix DSP. I was going to run 10 channels with 3 way front, mono'd rear passive and sub. I was looking for a 10 channel at first, didn't realize there weren't any at the time.


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## xconcepts

A-Ron said:


> Any clue who will offer these once they arrive in the states? I don't have a Helix dealer anywhere near me that I know of.


Crutchfield more than likely.


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## mathematics

Don (6spdcoupe) has his, hopefully he will get it installed this weekend.


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## AVIDEDTR

sqnut said:


> You don't need stereo subs. Almost all recorded content below ~90hz is recorded in mono.


K:laugh:


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## 6spdcoupe

It's cute !


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## AVIDEDTR

i just came


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## 2010hummerguy




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## REGULARCAB

wait wait wait, no one said anything about a 30 band *P*eq per channel... wtf I want one!


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## SkizeR

Paragraphic.. if only it was parametric


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## REGULARCAB

SkizeR said:


> Paragraphic.. if only it was parametric


Sigh.. my brain has failed me once again


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## subterFUSE

SkizeR said:


> Paragraphic.. if only it was parametric



It is parametric.

Paragraphic just means a parametric EQ with the visual slider layout of a graphic EQ.

The frequencies and Q are still adjustable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## REGULARCAB

subterFUSE said:


> It is parametric.
> 
> Paragraphic just means a parametric EQ with the visual slider layout of a graphic EQ.
> 
> The frequencies and Q are still adjustable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh snap!!!!!!!!


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## SkizeR

Doesn't paragraphic mean the band's are set frequencies but the q is adjustable?


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## ErinH

Don, can you tell me what the dimensions are or provide some comparison pics of the new vs current one? 

I've got one on order through Steve (Cook) and am curious if I'm going to have to relocate it since the current one is already in a tight spot. 

Thanks in advance if you can.


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## 6spdcoupe

ErinH said:


> Don, can you tell me what the dimensions are or provide some comparison pics of the new vs current one?
> 
> I've got one on order through Steve (Cook) and am curious if I'm going to have to relocate it since the current one is already in a tight spot.
> 
> Thanks in advance if you can.


Very, very little difference in size .. 178 X 151 X 40


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## Huckleberry Sound

6spdcoupe said:


> It's cute !



Question, did you get an advance Helix DSP Pro, or is it released to the public yet?

Thanks


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## 6spdcoupe

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Question, did you get an advance Helix DSP Pro, or is it released to the public yet?
> 
> Thanks


It is not yet released anywhere.


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## thehatedguy

Fixed point processing is very impressive. Rane says it is better for audio than less expensive floating point processors.


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## Huckleberry Sound

6spdcoupe said:


> It is not yet released anywhere.


Thank you. I appreciate the feedback!


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## ErinH

6spdcoupe said:


> Very, very little difference in size .. 178 X 151 X 40



Awesome to know that. Thanks man.


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## t3sn4f2

Processing at 96kHz. Instead of just down/up-sampling to 48kHz like every other processor out there. Pretty cool. 

(Audison's new processor does as well but I don't know if that's out yet)


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## t3sn4f2

thehatedguy said:


> Fixed point processing is very impressive. Rane says it is better for audio than less expensive floating point processors.


Here's a little more on the topic. Maybe you even got that from this paper?

http://recording.de/uploads/newbb/4bfcff8af46c790faee3be9da5342914.pdf


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## GTBqv.au

t3sn4f2 said:


> Processing at 96kHz. Instead of just down/up-sampling to 48kHz like every other processor out there. Pretty cool.
> 
> 
> 
> (Audison's new processor does as well but I don't know if that's out yet)



Audison's new processor. Of what do you speak? Links?


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## subterFUSE

6spdcoupe said:


> It is not yet released anywhere.


Mine is on order and we are being told early November for the USA. I'm hopeful that will be true. Very eager to get my system upgrade underway soon. But we are waiting for the DSP Pro first. 

HEC modules should be available by end of November in Germany, so maybe by December in the USA. There will be modules for adding a second optical input, a SP/DIF input, and Bluetooth streaming via aptX codec.

Helix is claiming they have a new controller coming at the end of the year. The current controller for the Helix DSP will work immediately, and you can still build your own potentiometer controls as ErinH has illustrated. According to what I was told, the upcoming controller will allow selection of up to 20 saved presets.


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## subterFUSE

GTBqv.au said:


> Audison's new processor. Of what do you speak? Links?


Indeed. Do tell.


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## subterFUSE

SkizeR said:


> Doesn't paragraphic mean the band's are set frequencies but the q is adjustable?


No. As I understand it, that's technically not what it means.

Paragraphic means that the EQ is parametric, and that it also has a GUI which shows the adjustments in a visual way. So essentially, it shows a visual bank of sliders for the gain control so that the user can quickly and easily see which bands are adjusted up or down. (IOW a "graphical" display of the settings) But it also offers the adjustable frequency and Q of a parametric.

I am pretty sure the current Helix DSP allows the center frequencies to be adjusted on its EQ. Maybe ErinH can confirm this, since I know he has experience with it? If so, that means the current Helix DSP has a paragraphic EQ and therefore the new DSP would be assured to have something at least equal to, if not better than, that.


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## Hanatsu

On my Helix P-DSP you can change center frequency 10% +/- or so around the normal 1/3oct EQ bands. Q is adjustable 0.5-15. Gain -15 to +6. I'm sure the new unit will be as good as the CDSP with full peq. Would be strange otherwise...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


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## ErinH

The Helix DSP bands are initially set in the software at 1/3 octave intervals (standard graphic EQ) and IIRC can be adjusted from that center frequency in steps up to 1/12 octave with about 4-5 'steps' of adjustment up or down from the center.


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## t3sn4f2

GTBqv.au said:


> Audison's new processor. Of what do you speak? Links?


Looking back now I think I misinterpreted one of their marketing post a while back, my bad. :blush: Must have been something to do with their "Full DA" or Bit Play. The Bit Play outputs high resolution S/PDIF. But it doesn't look like the processor is still any different than any other that runs at 24bit/48kHz.


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## subterFUSE

t3sn4f2 said:


> Looking back now I think I misinterpreted one of their marketing post a while back, my bad. :blush: Must have been something to do with their "Full DA" or Bit Play. The Bit Play outputs high resolution S/PDIF. But it doesn't look like the processor is still any different than any other that runs at 24bit/48kHz.


Correct. Audison has not updated their processors yet.

I have the BitPlay but not installed it yet.
It is capable of storing and playing back Flac files up to 24 bit 96kHz.

The Bit One processor can handle sample rates up to 48kHz.

The Bit Ten processors can handle higher sample rates. At least 96k, I think.


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## bbfoto

I'm definitely in for one of these as well. Gotta see who my local dealer would be in Pasadena or the Victorville SoCal area. Anybody recommend a good shop/Helix dealer?

But WTH is it that these companies can NEVER release the new Controllers and/or Expansion Modules at the same time the processor is released?!?!  They must think that we just love to tear open our vehicles and put them back together again day-in and day-out. 

Does anyone have information regarding the MSRP of the new Controller and each of the Helix Expansion Modules? Don?

The only other processor I might be interested in ATM would be what Andy comes up with for the new audiofrog DSP, but I'd imagine that is still quite far down the pipeline.


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## bbfoto

t3sn4f2 said:


> Processing at 96kHz. Instead of just down/up-sampling to 48kHz like every other processor out there. Pretty cool.


Yes! Have definitely been waiting for this to become a reality as well. I'm actually surprised it has happened so soon. Awesome.


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## SteveH!

THE FINALLY HAVE INFO UP ON THEIR SITE! HELIX DSP PRO


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## t3sn4f2

uuuummmm......what?!

"Information: The HELIX DSP PRO can only
handle uncompressed digital stereo signals in
PCM format with a sample rate between 12 kHz
and 96 kHz / 192 kHz. Neither Dolby-coded
5.1 signals nor *compressed MP3-/WMA- or
AAC‑audio formats will be accepted*."

But those are PCM just like WAV. :inquisitive:


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## WestCo

subterFUSE said:


> Correct. Audison has not updated their processors yet.
> 
> I have the BitPlay but not installed it yet.
> It is capable of storing and playing back Flac files up to 24 bit 96kHz.
> 
> The Bit One processor can handle sample rates up to 48kHz.
> 
> The Bit Ten processors can handle higher sample rates. At least 96k, I think.


How much was the bitplay and where do you get it?


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## subterFUSE

WestCo said:


> How much was the bitplay and where do you get it?


At my local Audison dealer.
MSRP = $1000

Expect to pay in the area of $950.


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## subterFUSE

t3sn4f2 said:


> uuuummmm......what?!
> 
> "Information: The HELIX DSP PRO can only
> handle uncompressed digital stereo signals in
> PCM format with a sample rate between 12 kHz
> and 96 kHz / 192 kHz. Neither Dolby-coded
> 5.1 signals nor *compressed MP3-/WMA- or
> AAC‑audio formats will be accepted*."
> 
> But those are PCM just like WAV. :inquisitive:


Where did you see this? Just curious.

Good for them!
Frankly, this is perfectly fine by me. F%^# MP3!
MP3 needs to die. The sooner, the better.
There is absolutely no excuse for it to exist any longer.
I hope more and more vendors stop supporting the format, and force consumers to move on to better formats.


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## t3sn4f2

subterFUSE said:


> Where did you see this? Just curious.
> 
> Good for them!
> Frankly, this is perfectly fine by me. F%^# MP3!
> MP3 needs to die. The sooner, the better.
> There is absolutely no excuse for it to exist any longer.
> I hope more and more vendors stop supporting the format, and force consumers to move on to better formats.


My buddy Manual told me.


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## subterFUSE

t3sn4f2 said:


> My buddy Manual told me.


Cool. I see it now.

This only has to do with the digital inputs, and this is not surprising.
All it is saying is that the DSP itself does not do any decoding.
So you can't send an MP3 file in encoded state to the DSP and have it decode for you. I'm not sure if there is a single DSP on the market which does this?


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## t3sn4f2

subterFUSE said:


> Cool. I see it now.
> 
> This only has to do with the digital inputs, and this is not surprising.
> All it is saying is that the DSP itself does not do any decoding.
> So you can't send an MP3 file in encoded state to the DSP and have it decode for you. I'm not sure if there is a single DSP on the market which does this?


What bewilders me is that there is no way to send a compressed bit stream for those type of formats, like there is for ac3 and dd. it all gets decoded by the player and sent out as PCM for spdif, and is then seen by the digi Input as such. Unless I'm completely off on how this works.


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## subterFUSE

Looks like the DSP Pro might interface with Most-Bus equipped cars.
If so, then I might be able to omit my MoBridge preamp from the upcoming install. That would be sweet!


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## subterFUSE

t3sn4f2 said:


> What bewilders me is that there is no way to send a compressed bit stream for those type of formats, like there is for ac3 and dd. it all gets decoded by the player and sent out as PCM for spdif, and is then seen by the digi Input as such. Unless I'm completely off on how this works.


I am not aware of a car audio DSP that decodes digital formats like AC3 or MP3.
Do any of them do that?


----------



## t3sn4f2

subterFUSE said:


> I am not aware of a car audio DSP that decodes digital formats like AC3 or MP3.
> Do any of them do that?


Ac3 or dd? Not that I recall. But like I said, they would not have to for mp3. Its Works e in every other processor, even basic ones. Or don't they? They must be referring to some special type of digi transmission for compressed audio codecs, that I've never heard of once.


----------



## subterFUSE

t3sn4f2 said:


> Ac3 or dd? Not that I recall. But like I said, they would not have to for mp3. Its Works e in every other processor, even basic ones. Or don't they? They must be referring to some special type of digi transmission for compressed audio codecs, that I've never heard of once.


I don't think so. I think all the other processors simply accept PCM 2 channel digital audio. The decoding happens at the source unit.

In which case, there's nothing new here. It's just maybe they were more upfront about it?


----------



## miniSQ

3.0 is not avilable for HelixDSP

https://www.facebook.com/8382150482...1/10153279381179829/?type=1&notif_t=notify_me


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Woohoo! Can't wait to play with it...and I know you meant "now" instead of "not"


----------



## miniSQ

Architect7 said:


> Woohoo! Can't wait to play with it...and I know you meant "now" instead of "not"


sure...whatever you want to believe


----------



## subterFUSE

Testing the Demo software now.


Full parametric EQ with Center Frequency in 1 Hz steps, Q adjustable from .5 to 15 with .1 steps, and gain in .25dB steps.

EQ & Channel gains can be linked in either Absolute or Relative modes.

Phase angle adjustment independent from time alignment, for all channels, in 11.25 degree steps.

Crossover Types available: Butterworth, Bessel, Tschebyc (don't even know that one), Linkwitz, and Self-Define.

I/O mixer to route signal where you want it.

This looks awesome!


----------



## AVIDEDTR

please share the link cause the FB download is version 2.93


----------



## miniSQ

AVIDEDTR said:


> please share the link cause the FB download is version 2.93


PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## charliekwin

AVIDEDTR said:


> please share the link cause the FB download is version 2.93


Available on the AF site, but only on the German page at the moment: PC-Tool Software zum freien Konfigurieren von DSPs, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## AVIDEDTR

setup_ATF-DSP-PC-TOOL-2-93_2

thats from both links posted


----------



## miniSQ

AVIDEDTR said:


> setup_ATF-DSP-PC-TOOL-2-93_2
> 
> thats from both links posted


strange..i got this:
Setup_ATF-DSP-PC-Tool_3.01b.exe

If you want to shoot me your email, or drop box i will send it to you.

i just tried again, and yes this time i got the 2.93 version too. But i do have the 3.01 if you want it.


----------



## charliekwin

Hmm, worked earlier...seems to be some funny business w/ the language selection on their site. Here's the direct link:

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/Software/Setup_ATF-DSP-PC-Tool_3.01b.exe


----------



## Hanatsu

Wow.... that's some powerful stuff. 0,25dB increments on the EQ gain. Full parametric with 1Hz resolution. Subwoofer phase increments down to 11,25deg. Pretty cool.

The Helix Pro will definitely be on my "to buy list".


----------



## AVIDEDTR

thanks guys.


----------



## subterFUSE

Hanatsu said:


> Subwoofer phase increments down to 11,25deg. Pretty cool.


No dude. Phase angle adjustment for ALL CHANNELS, not just the subwoofer.

And it's independent of the time alignment adjust, too.


SUPER COOL.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

looks great


----------



## Hanatsu

subterFUSE said:


> No dude. Phase angle adjustment for ALL CHANNELS, not just the subwoofer.
> 
> And it's independent of the time alignment adjust, too.
> 
> 
> SUPER COOL.


Not on the version I downloaded right now. Only 0/180deg on all other except subwoofer channel. What version do you got? Mine is called 3.01b.

Noticed that it got a SHELF EQ filter as well, that's great!!


----------



## AVIDEDTR




----------



## AVIDEDTR

20 hz is now avail


----------



## AVIDEDTR

subterFUSE said:


> can be linked in either Absolute or Relative modes.
> 
> Phase angle adjustment independent from time alignment, for all channels, in 11.25 degree steps.



Front L Low and Front R Low is only 0 or 180

Full, High, Mid, and Sub all work.

Reset didn't fix - filling a bugzilla .... wait, that's my real job. :laugh:


----------



## subterFUSE

Hanatsu said:


> Not on the version I downloaded right now. Only 0/180deg on all other except subwoofer channel. What version do you got? Mine is called 3.01b.
> 
> Noticed that it got a SHELF EQ filter as well, that's great!!


I have 3.01b.

In order to get the small phase angle steps, you must first configure your Inputs/Outputs. I switched Output A from "Front L Full" to "Front L High" to represent a tweeter. Once you make that change, the phase adjust should work in smaller steps.


----------



## subterFUSE

AVIDEDTR said:


> Front L Low and Front R Low is only 0 or 180
> 
> Full, High, Mid, and Sub all work.
> 
> Reset didn't fix - filling a bugzilla .... wait, that's my real job. :laugh:



OK. Looks like channels labelled as "High" and "Mid" and "Sub" get the smaller adjustment steps of 11.25 degrees.

"Low" only gets 0 or 180 degrees. Weird. But probably not the end of the world.


----------



## Hanatsu

Ah I see. Thanks 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

So im not **** nutz


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Run that channel full. Problem solved


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Wait so 3.01 will also work with the older DSP right?


----------



## subterFUSE

Architect7 said:


> Wait so 3.01 will also work with the older DSP right?



Here is how I understand it:

At release date, no the older DSP won't work on 3.0.

It is possible they will enable the older DSP at some point in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

already flash the firmware on the C-DSP - works like a charm!


----------



## steggie

My dealer has a few coming next week, anyone else have one yet?


----------



## miniSQ

AVIDEDTR said:


> already flash the firmware on the C-DSP - works like a charm!


Anyone running 3.0 on a standard HelixDSP? I would be afraid of bricking my unit so i have not tried.


----------



## charliekwin

miniSQ said:


> Anyone running 3.0 on a standard HelixDSP? I would be afraid of bricking my unit so i have not tried.


I'm definitely not that brave. With the P-DSPs, at least, I think Helix may have had a couple different versions of them, so I wouldn't risk it even if someone else reported success.


----------



## subterFUSE

steggie said:


> My dealer has a few coming next week, anyone else have one yet?


Mine is on order, and was told it should be here in November.


----------



## davewpy

Anyone knows what's the price range when released?

Its going to take a long time to reach here, as usual.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## WestCo

I want one so bad it hurts.


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Anyone knows what's the price range when released?
> 
> Its going to take a long time to reach here, as usual.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



MSRP = $1000 USD

Expect to pay $950 USD at most dealers in the USA.


----------



## sirbOOm

Finally a 10-channel. I'll be buying one when I can find it for sale somewhere... certainly not at my shop, hmmph. I was hoping JL, Audison, or Alpine would come out with a 10. In the mean time, I will "suffer" with my RF 360.3 which is good enough for gov. work.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Hybrid Audio Salon in Cummings is a helix Dealer.

The Auto Salon | High End Customization

Ask for Scott or Mike

they will Hook you up!


----------



## sirbOOm

Haha. I know Scott's place. I mean... for less than $1K!


----------



## rton20s

That is the question isn't it? "To hook someone up," I would expect to see pricing below street prices, and at least better than MSRP/MAP. To simply sale something to someone at the going rate is not a "hook up."


----------



## Victor_inox

subterFUSE said:


> Testing the Demo software now.
> 
> 
> Full parametric EQ with Center Frequency in 1 Hz steps, Q adjustable from .5 to 15 with .1 steps, and gain in .25dB steps.
> 
> EQ & Channel gains can be linked in either Absolute or Relative modes.
> 
> Phase angle adjustment independent from time alignment, for all channels, in 11.25 degree steps.
> 
> Crossover Types available: Butterworth, Bessel, Tschebyc (don't even know that one), Linkwitz, and Self-Define.
> 
> I/O mixer to route signal where you want it.
> 
> This looks awesome!


Some read on Tsebychev filter if interested.Chebyshev Filter


----------



## Victor_inox

It`s all nice and dandy but when Brax branded DSP will be released ?


----------



## WestCo

Just for my reference. 
If I am going for signal reproduction from an analog source unit, do you think the c-dsp or dsp-pro is the way to go? It's a modified bottlehead and I am really wanting to keep the signal pure and uncolored.

Pro C-Dsp
Seems like its 64 bit vs 56 bit
And s/n of 108 vs 114?
And the DAC Analog Devices vs Cirrus

The pro has faster sampling correct?


----------



## davewpy

I'm curious to see any experienced folks to reply. Based on my understanding 108 snr is beyond what we can hear.

Believe the circuitry differences are more important.

A link here for another product that I'm looking at with 112db SNR analogue.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/100887-mosconi-dsp-6to8-pics-29.html

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## WestCo

davewpy said:


> I'm curious to see any experienced folks to reply. Based on my understanding 108 snr is beyond what we can hear.
> 
> Believe the circuitry differences are more important.
> 
> A link here for another product that I'm looking at with 112db SNR analogue.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...scussion/100887-mosconi-dsp-6to8-pics-29.html
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Should add to that bit about s/n that the numbers on a specification sheet generally have very little to do with how the product sounds. Provided there isn't anything crazy. 

Now the individual components are another story, such as the DAC.


----------



## JVD240

Lol. I would love to hear someone notice that difference.

Let alone in a car.


----------



## WestCo

JVD240 said:


> Lol. I would love to hear someone notice that difference.
> 
> Let alone in a car.


I experiment with active home drivers, so a comparison of the two units would be helpful and informative.

If they are sonically similar then that's definitely cool


----------



## davewpy

My local shop is gonna try and get one for me! Hope to get my system complete by 12 Dec.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

We've been told it should be here next week.


----------



## Hanatsu

It has shown up in Sweden now... costs about $970. I'm shocked it didn't cost like $3000 here... that's the usual US/Sweden MSRP ratio =/


----------



## bbfoto

^Wow, that's great. Yeah, you guys usually get hammered over there! However, I have a truckload of Profoto strobe gear (best of the best & made in Sweden) for my photo equipment rental business, and let me tell you, that sh!t ain't cheap! I wonder if it's less expensive for you there compared to here in the States?

BTW, if there are any other photographers here that are interested in Profoto Flash equipment, let me know. I just updated/replaced a bunch of equipment and am selling off some of my older stock. It's been perfectly maintained and in great condition. What I have left ATM are 6 Profoto Pro-7a 2400ws strobe packs & 4 Profoto Pro-7b 1200ws portable strobe packs with 12 all new Li-Ion batteries & chargers. Will give you the DIYMA hookup. 

Back on topic. Sorry.


----------



## bbfoto

Is RF still the distributor for Helix here in the States? Any SoCal dealers on here? I think I need to pick one of these up.


----------



## charliekwin

bbfoto said:


> Is RF still the distributor for Helix here in the States? Any SoCal dealers on here? I think I need to pick one of these up.


I got my original P-DSP from Meece. They're up in Lancaster, so it's a bit of a drive, but were the only ones in the LA area at the time who had even heard of it, let alone get one for me.


----------



## bbfoto

^Yeah a bit far away if you need dealer support, but better than nothing. Thanks!

Hopefully Crutchfield will be carrying the new DSP PRO. Always great Customer Service & support. I will have to call and check tomorrow. They carry the current Helix DSP and a good selection of amps and speakers, even the competition series, so at least there's a chance. I'll post what they say regarding availability.


----------



## Rs roms

bbfoto said:


> ^Yeah a bit far a way if you need dealer support, but better than nothing. Thanks!
> 
> Hopefully Crutchfield will be carrying the new DSP PRO. Always great Customer Service & support. I will have to call and check tomorrow. They carry the current Helix DSP and a good selection of amps and speakers, even the competition series, so at least there's a chance. I'll post what they say regarding availability.


Approx what price difference is expected ?


----------



## bbfoto

Rs roms said:


> Approx what price difference is expected ?


Crutchfield is usually right at MSRP or very close unless they have a promotion/sale/bundle offer (not likely on a brand new item). But they have excellent customer service, are a Fully-Authorized Dealer, and have a 60-Day/No Questions Asked return policy.

Your local Brick & Mortar shop will vary depending on your relationship with them, and their perceived/acceptable bottom line, and the amount of business they do with that supplier (Helix), but I wouldn't expect it to be sold for less than ~$800 as a best-case-scenerio, and I would expect most shops to sell it for ~$950, as previously mentioned by several others here.

If you have a dealer near you that has offered great service & support in the past, that would obviously be the way to go. The shop mentioned above is about 1.5 hours from metro L.A., so time/distance (& just gas $) could be an issue or inconvenience for the initial sale or if you needed future service/support.


----------



## Rs roms

bbfoto said:


> Crutchfield is usually right at MSRP or very close unless they have a promotion/sale/bundle offer (not likely on a brand new item). But they have excellent customer service, are a Fully-Authorized Dealer, and have a 60-Day/No Questions Asked return policy.
> 
> Your local Brick & Mortar shop will vary depending on your relationship with them, and their perceived/acceptable bottom line, and the amount of business they do with that supplier (Helix), but I wouldn't expect it to be sold for less than ~$800 as a best-case-scenerio, and I would expect most shops to sell it for ~$950, as previously mentioned by several others here.
> 
> If you have a dealer near you that has offered great service & support in the past, that would obviously be the way to go. The shop mentioned above is about 1.5 hours from metro L.A., so time/distance (& just gas $) could be an issue or inconvenience for the initial sale or if you needed future service/support.


I already own the helix dsp. Still thinking to upgrade it. I live in Hedge lane off the green lanes in north of London.. I am not sure if any retailer near me will take pre orders or offer exchange service 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

Rs roms said:


> I already own the helix dsp. Still thinking to upgrade it. I live in Hedge lane off the green lanes in north of London.. I am not sure if any retailer near me will take pre orders or offer exchange service
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


LOL, sorry mate. Didn't even think to check your whereabouts! Little Cyprus, eh? Perhaps you can drop by The Carphone Warehouse and post me a new Samsung Galaxy Note 4 International version???


----------



## Rs roms

bbfoto said:


> LOL, sorry mate. Didn't even think to check your whereabouts! Little Cyprus, eh? Perhaps you can drop by The Carphone Warehouse and post me a new Samsung Galaxy Note 4 International version???


Ahhh, they are taking the pre orders, 650 quids and on contract 40 quids per month, it will be available in the 3rd week of november. Guess i have to get a Note 4 or new Pro dsp


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Most local dealers that ordered them should be getting them in shortly if not already. They are moving quite quickly though as I am already down to 4 with still some of them already allocated.


----------



## Hanatsu

Architect7 said:


> db increment and THD are both improved with the Pro according to their updates. Not sure what else...


Gain incements is a major upgrade imo. the THD rating together with the SNR is meaningless.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Audio Specifications

"THD+N. Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise

What is tested? Similar to the THD test above, except instead of measuring individual harmonics this tests measures everything added to the input signal. This is a wonderful test since everything that comes out of the unit that isn't the pure test signal is measured and included -- harmonics, hum, noise, RFI, buzz ... everything.

How is it measured? THD+N is the rms summation of all signal components (excluding the fundamental) over some prescribed bandwidth. Distortion analyzers make this measurement by removing the fundamental (using a deep and narrow notch filter) and measuring what's left using a bandwidth filter (typically 22 kHz, 30 kHz or 80 kHz). The remainder contains harmonics as well as random noise and other artifacts.

Weighting filters are rarely used. When they are used, too often it is to hide pronounced AC mains hum artifacts. An exception is the strong argument to use the ITU-R (CCIR) 468 curve because of its proven correlation to what is heard. However, since it adds 12 dB of gain in the critical midband (the whole point) it makes THD+N measurements bigger, so marketeers prevent its widespread use.

[Historical Note: Many old distortion analyzers labeled "THD" actually measured THD+N.]

Required Conditions. Same as THD (frequency, level & gain settings), except instead of stating the number of harmonics measured, the residual noise bandwidth is spec'd, along with whatever weighting filter was used. The preferred value is a 20 kHz (or 22 kHz) measurement bandwidth, and "flat," i.e., no weighting filter.

Conflicting views exist regarding THD+N bandwidth measurements. One argument goes: it makes no sense to measure THD at 20 kHz if your measurement bandwidth doesn't include the harmonics. Valid point, and one supported by the IEC, which says that THD should not be tested any higher than 6 kHz, if measuring five harmonics using a 30 kHz bandwidth, or 10 kHz, if only measuring the first three harmonics. Another argument states that since most people can't even hear the fundamental at 20 kHz, let alone the second harmonic, there is no need to measure anything beyond 20 kHz. Fair enough. However, the case is made that using an 80 kHz bandwidth is crucial, not because of 20 kHz harmonics, but because it reveals other artifacts that can indicate high frequency problems. All true points, but competition being what it is, standardizing on publishing THD+N figures measured flat over 22 kHz seems justified, while still using an 80 kHz bandwidth during the design, development and manufacturing stages.

*Correct: THD+N less than 0.01%, +4 dBu, 20-20 kHz, unity gain, 20 kHz BW

Wrong: THD less than 0.01%*"


----------



## WestCo

Hanatsu said:


> Gain incements is a major upgrade imo. the THD rating together with the SNR is meaningless.



I agree 100%
Thd is useless so long as the value is


----------



## WestCo

t3sn4f2 said:


> Audio Specifications
> 
> 
> 
> "THD+N. Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise
> 
> 
> 
> What is tested? Similar to the THD test above, except instead of measuring individual harmonics this tests measures everything added to the input signal. This is a wonderful test since everything that comes out of the unit that isn't the pure test signal is measured and included -- harmonics, hum, noise, RFI, buzz ... everything.
> 
> 
> 
> How is it measured? THD+N is the rms summation of all signal components (excluding the fundamental) over some prescribed bandwidth. Distortion analyzers make this measurement by removing the fundamental (using a deep and narrow notch filter) and measuring what's left using a bandwidth filter (typically 22 kHz, 30 kHz or 80 kHz). The remainder contains harmonics as well as random noise and other artifacts.
> 
> 
> 
> Weighting filters are rarely used. When they are used, too often it is to hide pronounced AC mains hum artifacts. An exception is the strong argument to use the ITU-R (CCIR) 468 curve because of its proven correlation to what is heard. However, since it adds 12 dB of gain in the critical midband (the whole point) it makes THD+N measurements bigger, so marketeers prevent its widespread use.
> 
> 
> 
> [Historical Note: Many old distortion analyzers labeled "THD" actually measured THD+N.]
> 
> 
> 
> Required Conditions. Same as THD (frequency, level & gain settings), except instead of stating the number of harmonics measured, the residual noise bandwidth is spec'd, along with whatever weighting filter was used. The preferred value is a 20 kHz (or 22 kHz) measurement bandwidth, and "flat," i.e., no weighting filter.
> 
> 
> 
> Conflicting views exist regarding THD+N bandwidth measurements. One argument goes: it makes no sense to measure THD at 20 kHz if your measurement bandwidth doesn't include the harmonics. Valid point, and one supported by the IEC, which says that THD should not be tested any higher than 6 kHz, if measuring five harmonics using a 30 kHz bandwidth, or 10 kHz, if only measuring the first three harmonics. Another argument states that since most people can't even hear the fundamental at 20 kHz, let alone the second harmonic, there is no need to measure anything beyond 20 kHz. Fair enough. However, the case is made that using an 80 kHz bandwidth is crucial, not because of 20 kHz harmonics, but because it reveals other artifacts that can indicate high frequency problems. All true points, but competition being what it is, standardizing on publishing THD+N figures measured flat over 22 kHz seems justified, while still using an 80 kHz bandwidth during the design, development and manufacturing stages.
> 
> 
> 
> *Correct: THD+N less than 0.01%, +4 dBu, 20-20 kHz, unity gain, 20 kHz BW
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong: THD less than 0.01%*"



Very good read!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

FYI, Here is the email response from Crutchfield regarding Helix DSP PRO availability:

_"Bill,

I checked with my buyers who met with Helix yesterday and they did discuss that product but it does not look like anything we will be carrying in the near future. Please let us know how we can help in the future.

Chance
Crutchfield Advisor
__[email protected]_
_www.crutchfield.com__ "_


----------



## bbfoto

6spdcoupe said:


> Most local dealers that ordered them should be getting them in shortly if not already. They are moving quite quickly though as I am already down to 4 with still some of them already allocated.


Don, any update on when the new Controller will be available? I'm sure you already have one of these as well, LOL!

Thanks for the info above...email & PM sent!


----------



## bbfoto

gregerst22 said:


> Guess they couldn't come to an agreement? Maybe it's for the best.. looks bad when you Google Helix DSP and the 3rd hit is a 2 star rating on crutchfield.


Yeah, I saw that, too!  It just takes one nucklehead reviewer... Still, I'm bummed that they will not be selling it, but I'm sure that Don will be giving us a much better hookup, right, Don?!


----------



## ErinH

Not to speak for him, but Don isn't likely to sell to you guys. He is very respectful of the transhipping aspect of sales and he adheres to it harder than anyone I know. But, I'm sure he can help you find a local dealer in your area.


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> Not to speak for him, but Don isn't likely to sell to you guys. He is very respectful of the transhipping aspect of sales and he adheres to it harder than anyone I know. But, I'm sure he can help you find a local dealer in your area.


Not to be a jerk...okay, maybe so...so why post his available stock on this forum as a tease? I know Don is a really nice guy...corresponded with him the past, but that kind of irks me.  I'm sure it wasn't his intention, but just sayin'. It's like dangling crack in front of an addict that's in a straight-jacket! 

So how does Crutchfield get around this? They sell the Helix Competition Series and all of the Processors on their web site, except for the new DSP PRO, of course. Even if there were a dealer 5 minutes away from me, if I wasn't keen on their reputation/service, I might still decide to purchase through Crutchfield if it were available there, just because of their awesome CS and return policy. Harsh reality, I know. Unfortunately, I'd have to say that 95% of the shops that I've been to in the SoCal area seemed to be pretty shadey behind the scenes.

From my research, I don't have a dealer within ~1.5 hours of my main residence which is roughly 1.5 hours N-E of L.A.. If someone can list the dealers within 45 minutes of Metro L.A. please let me know. I'm probably missing it, but I can't find a list of dealers on the audiotec-fisher web site. If someone has a link to share I'd be appreciative.

EDIT: Dumb me...was not looking on the "USA" web site...Found just one dealer in Pasadena, "JW Custom". There were two others listed in the "L.A. area", but they are quite far from Metro L.A. (Huntington Beach & Mission Viejo), and are at least 2.5 hours from me. If you happen to know of one that's not listed for some reason, please let me know. Will check with the Pasadena shop tomorrow and update here.

"Thank you for your support."


----------



## ndm

ErinH said:


> Not to speak for him, but Don isn't likely to sell to you guys. He is very respectful of the transhipping aspect of sales and he adheres to it harder than anyone I know. But, I'm sure he can help you find a local dealer in your area.


I hate these policies. Why, because I cannot stand when I cannot simply find a fricken dealer within 3 states of me to actually purchase stuff from. 

I understand why a company would have this rule but I have on many occasions wanted to buy something and could not find a dealer within a reasonable distance from me so I end up not buying it.

I LOVE to spend my hard earned cash on toys......I HATE jumping through hoops trying to do it. In my opinion this hurts sales. 

http://www.helixhifi.com/dealerlocator/dealerlocator.asp

If anyone can find a dealer in the vast chicagoland area please let me know. I am having no luck putting random zip codes surrounding me in the dealer locator. Found a dealer in Arizona but....um....the drive is a little much for me


----------



## rton20s

bbfoto said:


> So how does Crutchfield get around this?


Crutchfield is often selected as an "exclusive" online vendor by many companies. Andy has talked about why they selected Crutchfield as such for Audiofrog. If I am not mistaken, special restrictions are often put in place for Crutchfield when compared to the standard dealer agreement. This is why you rarely see sales on the exclusive gear that they sell. 

This is an attempt by manufacturers to have their product available throughout the country even when they don't have a local dealer in place. It also removes the burden of handling direct sells to the consumer when a local dealer is not available. 

If you do not have a "local" dealer, and because Crutchfield is not offering the DSP Pro, you might be able to get another authorized dealer outside of your area to talk to Helix and get them to approve the sale to you. I know other manufacturers have offered the same opportunity when they had potential customers outside of their dealer network area.


----------



## sirbOOm

bbfoto said:


> ^Yeah a bit far away if you need dealer support, but better than nothing. Thanks!
> 
> Hopefully Crutchfield will be carrying the new DSP PRO. Always great Customer Service & support. I will have to call and check tomorrow. They carry the current Helix DSP and a good selection of amps and speakers, even the competition series, so at least there's a chance. I'll post what they say regarding availability.


I contacted them, they have no idea if they'll carry it yet. At least not the product guy I was escalated to.


----------



## sirbOOm

If anyone wants to sell me one - I'm listening.  

My _third_ RF 360.3 is dead and it's a few months out of warranty.


----------



## davewpy

Is there a new controller? My local shop just informed that DSP pro is coming in next week!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Is there a new controller? My local shop just informed that DSP pro is coming in next week!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



The existing wired remote from the Helix DSP will work with the new DSP Pro.

Sometime soon there will be a new controller for the DSP Pro. They said it was expected in December. The new controller will allow selection of 20 presets.


----------



## sirbOOm

Yeah... just what I need. 20 presets. I'd like one good one...


----------



## bbfoto

sirbOOm said:


> I contacted them, they have no idea if they'll carry it yet. At least not the product guy I was escalated to.


Are you referring to Crutchfield or Meece Car Audio in Lancaster, CA? As I posted previously, a Crutchfield Advisor told me that they will most likely NOT have the DSP PRO available.



rton20s said:


> Crutchfield is often selected as an "exclusive" online vendor by many companies. Andy has talked about why they selected Crutchfield as such for Audiofrog. If I am not mistaken, special restrictions are often put in place for Crutchfield when compared to the standard dealer agreement. This is why you rarely see sales on the exclusive gear that they sell.
> 
> This is an attempt by manufacturers to have their product available throughout the country even when they don't have a local dealer in place. It also removes the burden of handling direct sells to the consumer when a local dealer is not available.
> 
> If you do not have a "local" dealer, and because Crutchfield is not offering the DSP Pro, you might be able to get another authorized dealer outside of your area to talk to Helix and get them to approve the sale to you. I know other manufacturers have offered the same opportunity when they had potential customers outside of their dealer network area.


Thanks for that good bit of information. Your post has helped me to recall the conversation regarding Crutchfield by Andy @ Audiofrog as well.



sirbOOm said:


> If anyone wants to sell me one - I'm listening.
> 
> My _third_ RF 360.3 is dead and it's a few months out of warranty.


Wow, really sorry to hear that, that's madly frustrating.  "Knock on Plexi", I haven't had any issues with mine (an early unit to boot) besides the normal requirement of the very specific connect/disconnect procedure when tuning and connecting your PC via USB.

Is there perhaps some type of intermittent gremlin that has gone undetected with the 12v power that is supplied to the unit, or a shorted input or output RCA? Depending on the vehicle, and the condition of the charging system and battery, I've found that some devices can be very sensitive to power cycling and/or severe voltage drops/surges during the process of starting the vehicle. When voltage drops, current (Amperage) rises exponentially. Technically, the protection fuse should prevent this, but that's not always the case IME.

Do you know the cause of failure of your previous two units???



davewpy said:


> Is there a new controller? My local shop just informed that DSP pro is coming in next week!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Nice to hear that you should have a DSP PRO available to you soon! According to Audiotec-Fischer, the New Controller that will offer up to 20 memory presets is still a few months away from being released...was originally December, but now looks like early-to-mid January. They have not disclosed and exact date or the pricing for this to my knowledge.

EDIT: As mentioned above by SubterFUSE, the existing controller for the Helix DSP will work with the new DSP PRO. However, I really don't want to buy the old one to use now, and then also buy the new one when it's released, so I'm holding out for the new controller. Out of curiosity, does anyone here know the price of the Existing controller???

There will also be some add-on Helix Expansion Modules (HEC) that will accommodate an additional Digital Optical input, or Bluetooth connectivity, etc. Though I haven't heard or read about the prospective release date or pricing for these.


----------



## ErinH

My dealer got a couple of the pro units in today, so that means my 'regular' version is going to be up for sale. just in case anyone is interested, I figured I'd mention it here. PM if you're interested. I'm planning on asking about $470 shipped CONUS. 9/10 condition. Still have the box.


----------



## subterFUSE

bbfoto said:


> Out of curiosity, does anyone here know the price of the Existing controller???


$60

Helix URC-2A Wired remote control for a Helix DSP at Crutchfield.com




> There will also be some add-on Helix Expansion Modules (HEC) that will accommodate an additional Digital Optical input, or Bluetooth connectivity, etc. Though I haven't heard or read about the prospective release date or pricing for these.


Originally, they said HEC modules were due end of November. But this could have been pushed back some. I would expect them before the new controller, however.


----------



## bbfoto

++++ UPDATE from CRUTCHFIELD !!!

Good news. Today a Crutchfield Sales Advisor nicknamed "Chance" (Mark) emailed me, stating that now they WILL BE STOCKING the new Helix DSP PRO in a few weeks! See the email reply below:
_
"Bill,

Change of plans - My merchandise buyer dropped me a note today saying he was ordering your Helix product and should have them in a few weeks. Keep an eye out on our site for it and I will try and send you a link when we have it in our system.

Regards,

Chance

800-388-2911
xt. 3244

markc AT crutchfield DOT com"
_

There was no mention of the new Remote, HEC modules, or pricing, but I'm sure it will be high as usual and basically MSRP. At least it's another purchasing option for those without a nearby/local dealer, and they're a "no risk" Authorized Dealer with great customer service and support.

Also, I'm hoping that there is a bit more to the new controller (other than now having 20 presets), and that it is a "mountable" unit, preferably with some type of display. Anyone with more info please feel free to chime in!



ErinH said:


> My dealer got a couple of the pro units in today, so that means my 'regular' version is going to be up for sale. just in case anyone is interested, I figured I'd mention it here. PM if you're interested. I'm planning on asking about $470 shipped CONUS. 9/10 condition. Still have the box.


Awaiting the comparison review of your new toy...err, tuning tool, compared to the "regular" version.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Wow, very cool that CF will stock the Pro. Hopefully they get the old remote back in stock, I gave up and found one from a local shop.


----------



## WestCo

The old remote will work just fine right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tsmith

Yes the old remote works just fine with my DSP Pro without any problems


----------



## bradknob

Got one! Should have it installed tomorrow.


----------



## Rs roms

bradknob said:


> Got one! Should have it installed tomorrow.


Congrats man, how much you got it for, eyes on the review


----------



## WestCo

YES!!!
Big n beefy dsp!!!


----------



## subterFUSE

Mine arrived yesterday. Stay tuned for a new build log coming soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bradknob

Rs roms said:


> Congrats man, how much you got it for, eyes on the review



I don't wanna get anyone in trouble just yet but I'll say I got it for a good bit less than msrp. I actually had no intentions of getting one. It was a series of unfortunate (at the time ?) events with my helix DSP and a shop owner who put the customer (me) first over making a huge profit that led to me having it.


I never even looked at the version 3 of the software until last night. Holy crap, they stepped it up for sure. But I'll have a chance to play with it tonight and I'll share my thoughts.


And yes it's definitely a bit meatier than the Helix DSP. Length, width, and weight wise. I'm pretty excited to say the least


----------



## WestCo

bradknob said:


> I don't wanna get anyone in trouble just yet but I'll say I got it for a good bit less than msrp. I actually had no intentions of getting one. It was a series of unfortunate (at the time &#55357;&#56860 events with my helix DSP and a shop owner who put the customer (me) first over making a huge profit that led to me having it.
> 
> 
> I never even looked at the version 3 of the software until last night. Holy crap, they stepped it up for sure. But I'll have a chance to play with it tonight and I'll share my thoughts.
> 
> 
> And yes it's definitely a bit meatier than the Helix DSP. Length, width, and weight wise. I'm pretty excited to say the least


Have you taken a peek at the board??

First thing on my to do list!


----------



## Hanatsu

bradknob said:


> Got one! Should have it installed tomorrow


Nice ^^

Probably getting one as well, my old P-DSP is starting to act up. Both static white noise from all channels and periodic weird crackling from all right channels, some of goes away if I ground the USB connection lol.


----------



## Guest

I know someone that installed the DSP Pro over last weekend... he'd in love with it...
According to him, much better than the HelixDSP....


----------



## bradknob

WestCo said:


> Have you taken a peek at the board??
> 
> First thing on my to do list!


Not yet, was in the middle of getting some wiring in place when it arrived. Honestly, I may as well be reading Chinese when i look at these boards, but I do still like to peak.





Hanatsu said:


> Nice ^^
> 
> 
> 
> Probably getting one as well, my old P-DSP is starting to act up. Both static white noise from all channels and periodic weird crackling from all right channels, some of goes away if I ground the USB connection lol.



Had I played with the updated software before last night, I would have strongly considered this unit.

The fact that my old helix DSPs remote out just stopped putting out enough voltage to turn my amps on, just sped up the process ?


----------



## teldzc1

So aside from the additional channels, the dsp pro sounds better?


----------



## sirbOOm

subterFUSE said:


> $60
> 
> Helix URC-2A Wired remote control for a Helix DSP at Crutchfield.com


OMG that remote is straight terrible...


----------



## McKinneyMike

sirbOOm said:


> OMG that remote is straight terrible...


It looks like something from an old episode of Star Trek.


----------



## bradknob

sirbOOm said:


> OMG that remote is straight terrible...



Absolutely, worst thing I've ever seen. But I did notice this...

In the software you can designate functions for the remote....



Then next to it is the option to configure "director remote"...




Preview of what's to come? I hope. Looks similar to the Audison remote. Wonder if anyone in the know can confirm


----------



## miniSQ

I agree it is a crappy remote, i don't use it. But...if i allowed me to program it to control certain channels then that would be cool. Would be nice to control sub on one, and mids on the others. Then overall volume at the HU.


----------



## Babs

miniSQ said:


> I agree it is a crappy remote, i don't use it. But...if i allowed me to program it to control certain channels then that would be cool. Would be nice to control sub on one, and mids on the others. Then overall volume at the HU.


I'm kind of in the hunt for the remote since I just got a NIB DSP (non-PRO), so if any of you guys wanna get rid of one lemme know. 

But yeah it strikes me the biggest real value in the remote would be volume control for the toslink input. Not knowing or having messed with ways to do that (first toslink capable DSP for me), I'd guess there might be toslink sources allowing prior digital attenuation somehow. Dunno but interested in it.


----------



## subterFUSE

sirbOOm said:


> OMG that remote is straight terrible...


I know.... It's awful.

Not only is it ugly, but it's wired! And the wire attaches to the bottom.


There is the option of building your own controls for it, however. Check out Erin's ALPS pot build for details.


Hopefully the upcoming controller is much better.


----------



## subterFUSE

bradknob said:


> Preview of what's to come? I hope. Looks similar to the Audison remote. Wonder if anyone in the know can confirm



Looks fairly definitive to me. So they're calling it the "director?"

Yes, it looks a lot like the Audison DRC except that the knob is on the right.


----------



## teldzc1

Anyone know if the new controller is compatible with the non pro Helix DSP?


----------



## Babs

teldzc1 said:


> Anyone know if the new controller is compatible with the non pro Helix DSP?


I believe it's the same unit, unchanged.


----------



## teldzc1

Sorry I meant is that new "Director" unit going to be compatible with the non pro.


----------



## Babs

teldzc1 said:


> Sorry I meant is that new "Director" unit going to be compatible with the non pro.



To date the new software isn't for the previous models. Yet. We hope it will be.


----------



## subterFUSE

teldzc1 said:


> Sorry I meant is that new "Director" unit going to be compatible with the non pro.


At first, probably not.

Maybe a few months down the road? Possibly.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## ndm

Dangit....this DSP is creeping closer and closer to making me switch from my 6to8v8. 

10 output channels and this potentially sexy remote aka director....

HMMM:uhoh::uhoh::thinking2:


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> Dangit....this DSP is creeping closer and closer to making me switch from my 6to8v8.
> 
> 10 output channels and this potentially sexy remote aka director....
> 
> HMMM:uhoh::uhoh::thinking2:


Dude..... Phase angle adjustments independent of time alignment, in 11 degree steps.

Seriously......


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> Dude..... Phase angle adjustments independent of time alignment, in 11 degree steps.
> 
> Seriously......



Stop it!!!!

Seriously....I am kind of just waiting for the remote to be released and for any issues to pop themselves up. I totally dig the added features that no one else has. I love the software and the way it looks. 

I just don't want any crazy issues that will make me regret my decision. 

The Mosconi is great but I cannot stand how it does not have the same amount of bands on every channel.

I just think that this new Helix DSP Pro is the most comprehensive of them all. 
But then again Arc PS8 was supposed to be the best but look at its issues. (Noise/Controller/Bluetooth)


----------



## sirbOOm

I would not know the first thing to do with phase angle adjustment... hmmph.


----------



## ndm

Hey folks. I know some of you have this installed....

Reviews please!!


----------



## davewpy

By mid Dec for myself for the installation. Looking forward to the director control.

I'm clueless re the phase angle adjustment. Maybe Hanatsu will know?

Guessing its something for off axis correction with impulse measurement?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

Phase adjustment is different from T/A... "sort of". It's usable where the acoustic wavelength is very long. 

> T/A is basically a linear phase shift versus frequency. If you delay 1ms it will equal 360degrees (a full period) at 1000Hz. At 100Hz the same 1ms delay will equal a 36deg phase shift, at 50Hz = 18deg, at 25Hz 9deg.

A phase shift is therefore relative to a given frequency as can be seen from the above example. 

If you use the the phase shift and let's say you're aiming to align sub/mids at 80Hz and you find out that a 90deg phase yields optimal summing at the crossover point then:

80Hz = 12.5ms (360deg)

--> 90deg of 12,5 will be 12,5/4=*3,125ms*

90deg at 80Hz is still 90deg at 160Hz (one octave higher) but the time delay will be different there, only half of that of 80Hz, i.e 1.5625ms. It's not constant vs frequency. This is the difference.


----------



## sirbOOm

Huh? Haha... ubuuuuuuhhhh what? I stupid


----------



## Hanatsu

sirbOOm said:


> Huh? Haha... ubuuuuuuhhhh what? I stupid


Yep- Precisely. Phase and T/A is a confusing subject xD

T/A = Same time delay vs frequency (phase shift not consistent vs freq)

Phase shift = Same phase shift vs frequency (time delay not consistent vs freq)

They are both linked together, you can't affect "time" without affecting "phase" and vice versa.


----------



## Babs

While I understand it, uh, I think.. My brain just shot out my ears.  But that's one of the best explanations for it I've seen. Thank you Sir.

Strikes me as basically the measurement (scale) you're using.. Either in milliseconds, distance, or degree shift at certain freq, which can be converted over, back/forth between, based on the frequency length, sound speed, etc.

Gracious!


----------



## Hanatsu

Babs said:


> While I understand it, uh, I think.. My brain just shot out my ears.  But that's one of the best explanations for it I've seen. Thank you Sir.
> 
> Strikes me as basically the measurement (scale) you're using.. Either in milliseconds, distance, or degree shift at certain freq, which can be converted over, back/forth between, based on the frequency length, sound speed, etc.
> 
> Gracious!


Phase angle calculation time delay frequency

Play around with the calculator


----------



## sirbOOm

Now I got it. ~


----------



## AVIDEDTR

The bugs from the C-DSP and DSP a gone as far as I can tell. offline load of settings is fixed, no more pops. New Java format (afpx) which seems to increment newer files each save.

My issues:
Helix DSP PRO and my 2013 DODGE AVENGER with ARC xdi amps are not playing nice.
Helix C-DSP and Arc xdi amps, all is fine.

Here we go..

Details of the issue:

one amp per side is the setups ch1 TW @ 4ohms ( switch is set to 4 and above) 
ch2 Mid @ 4 ohms ( switch is set to 4 and above) 
Ch3/4 Woof @ 2ohms (Bridged)( switch is set to 4 and below) (2ohm load) 
Ch5/6 Sub @ 4ohms (Bridged)( switch is set to Low and signal is mono from Helix DSP Processor

We are getting a buzz out of the tweeters when the sub input to xdi is used. 
-Disconnect the sub input rca at the right amp only, no buzz. 
-connect the sub input and Mute TW/MID/WOOF outputs on the processor and the buzz remains. 
-Disconnect the sub input the same muted config - no buzz. 
-Disconnect the Inputs and use a cell phone, via 8mm to RCA buzz** ? 
-Bypass the processor sub input and go direct to the amp and alternator whine from hell.

System Details: 
-Kinetik HC1800 in the engine bay. 
Charging is 14.6 key off is 12.8 
-0/1 WIREZ signature Power and Ground are from the main batt in the engine bay then run into a 2x2way distribution block in the trunk. 
-4 gauge to the amps. 
-Speaker wire is 10guage/14gauge OFC from WIREZ. 
-RCA's Wirez Signature.

Radio is a SONY double din (top of the line). 
-Power and ground is provided from the rear of the vehicle (same as the amps/processor) fused as well. -
Axxess Steering wheel module and Canbus Module are connected to the same 12vDC and Ground from the rear of the vehicle.

Conundrum: Now get this, drop in another DSPPRO - same buzz. But drop in my known working Helix C-DSP processor and the noise disappears.

Any suggestions


----------



## ErinH

Have you adjusted the grounding jumper options (float, attached, or 200kohm I believe are the three options)?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Sure did erin ;-)


----------



## WestCo

AVIDEDTR said:


> The bugs from the C-DSP and DSP a gone as far as I can tell. offline load of settings is fixed, no more pops. New Java format (afpx) which seems to increment newer files each save.
> 
> My issues:
> Helix DSP PRO and my 2013 DODGE AVENGER with ARC xdi amps are not playing nice.
> Helix C-DSP and Arc xdi amps, all is fine.
> 
> Here we go..
> 
> Details of the issue:
> 
> one amp per side is the setups ch1 TW @ 4ohms ( switch is set to 4 and above)
> ch2 Mid @ 4 ohms ( switch is set to 4 and above)
> Ch3/4 Woof @ 2ohms (Bridged)( switch is set to 4 and below) (2ohm load)
> Ch5/6 Sub @ 4ohms (Bridged)( switch is set to Low and signal is mono from Helix DSP Processor
> 
> We are getting a buzz out of the tweeters when the sub input to xdi is used.
> -Disconnect the sub input rca at the right amp only, no buzz.
> -connect the sub input and Mute TW/MID/WOOF outputs on the processor and the buzz remains.
> -Disconnect the sub input the same muted config - no buzz.
> -Disconnect the Inputs and use a cell phone, via 8mm to RCA buzz** ?
> -Bypass the processor sub input and go direct to the amp and alternator whine from hell.
> 
> System Details:
> -Kinetik HC1800 in the engine bay.
> Charging is 14.6 key off is 12.8
> -0/1 WIREZ signature Power and Ground are from the main batt in the engine bay then run into a 2x2way distribution block in the trunk.
> -4 gauge to the amps.
> -Speaker wire is 10guage/14gauge OFC from WIREZ.
> -RCA's Wirez Signature.
> 
> Radio is a SONY double din (top of the line).
> -Power and ground is provided from the rear of the vehicle (same as the amps/processor) fused as well. -
> Axxess Steering wheel module and Canbus Module are connected to the same 12vDC and Ground from the rear of the vehicle.
> 
> Conundrum: Now get this, drop in another DSPPRO - same buzz. But drop in my known working Helix C-DSP processor and the noise disappears.
> 
> Any suggestions


Try an isolated battery on the dsp-pro?


----------



## t3sn4f2

Try a different cable RCA on the sub amp. Maybe the particular plug style or specific RCA end isn't playing nice with the new DSP pro output ends.


----------



## WestCo

Also, has anyone tried the digital inputs?


----------



## ErinH

AVIDEDTR said:


> Sure did erin ;-)



Just making sure, man.


----------



## Jcharger13

I tried the optical input on the DSP pro and got noise, this may be from the a/d convertor I was using up front but I didn't have the issue with a BitOne.1

Went back to standard RCA's and everything works great with the helix, dead silent with the volume down for once in my life. 

One other thing I noticed when using digital I couldn't select l-R for an input on a channel (playing around cause I may add rear fill someday), but works fine when in the analog rca input section. Maybe a software bug, maybe be hardware or maybe I did something wrong. Idk.


----------



## WestCo

Jcharger13 said:


> I tried the optical input on the DSP pro and got noise, this may be from the a/d convertor I was using up front but I didn't have the issue with a BitOne.1
> 
> Went back to standard RCA's and everything works great with the helix, dead silent with the volume down for once in my life.
> 
> One other thing I noticed when using digital I couldn't select l-R for an input on a channel (playing around cause I may add rear fill someday), but works fine when in the analog rca input section. Maybe a software bug, maybe be hardware or maybe I did something wrong. Idk.


In a week or so I will be doing some listening based testing for RCA's. I will be sure to do some isolated powersource tests with all the inputs/outputs on my unit. 

If the bit one was clean, that does not bode well for the pro. The ps8 has similar issues because of how sensitive the inputs are. But it could just be finicky about the power source. If that's the case an isolated battery will likely be the best option.


----------



## sirbOOm

This is why I am waiting for the 2016 model... 

...and the money to afford one.


----------



## WestCo

sirbOOm said:


> This is why I am waiting for the 2016 model...
> 
> ...and the money to afford one.


I am holding out hope that mine is 100% noise free, sounds magical with any input, and is more or less user friendly.

A guy can dream can't he?


----------



## BlackHHR

Julian you know what direction I went in...... best of luck bro.


----------



## Tsmith

I am using the digital input on my DSP Pro without any noise issues. Works great and sounds great


----------



## ErinH

^ I hope to drop by Steve's shop this week and pick mine up. I might wind up getting a 2nd one for my HT setup as well.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> I might wind up getting a 2nd one for my HT setup as well.


Holy smokes.. That could certainly get interesting. I imagine the common interface learning curve you already have with it would make you a home theater tuning monster, just add mic and rew. If the Pro's optical will decode 5.1 like straight up 2-channel, even better.


----------



## WestCo

Tsmith said:


> I am using the digital input on my DSP Pro without any noise issues. Works great and sounds great


That's a relief!

Can you describe the sound? Good mix of clarity/warmth?


----------



## Jcharger13

Westcoast, don't get me wrong I really like the Pro. The more I think about it I have a feeling it isn't the Dsp which caused the noise but my optical cable is a pos from rat shack that's barelly long enough is the culprit. 

Overall I couldn't be happier with the pro, it's rock solid loading, no pops etc, the GUI is pretty decent, the built in rta is a cool feature for those who want auto eq. I still prefer sweeps with rew and doing things the hard way. As far as sound goes, idk if I can tell much differance from my bit1.1 or 360.3 but I probably don't have teh golden ears .


----------



## bradknob

I've seen a few people asking about the remotes...

I have a lead to some brand new remotes for the helix DSP and pro if anyone is interested, let me know... From an authorized dealer.


----------



## WestCo

bradknob said:


> I've seen a few people asking about the remotes...
> 
> I have a lead to some brand new remotes for the helix DSP and pro if anyone is interested, let me know... From an authorized dealer.


Interested...
Pics and specs?


----------



## bradknob

I'm sorry maybe I should have been more clear.... The URC-2A. The original wired remote. Not the new "director".


----------



## Babs

I'm in.. Shot you a PM on one. But am interested in info on this "director".


----------



## mathematics

it's hard for most people to grasp because it involves understanding trigonometry...sine waves, phase angle, frequencies, periods, wavelengths. without having a good understanding of trig, you're not likely to really understand phase and time alignment. don't ever feel stupid about it. it's just technical.




Babs said:


> While I understand it, uh, I think.. My brain just shot out my ears.  But that's one of the best explanations for it I've seen. Thank you Sir.
> 
> Strikes me as basically the measurement (scale) you're using.. Either in milliseconds, distance, or degree shift at certain freq, which can be converted over, back/forth between, based on the frequency length, sound speed, etc.
> 
> Gracious!


----------



## Babs

mathematics said:


> it's hard for most people to grasp because it involves understanding trigonometry...sine waves, phase angle, frequencies, periods, wavelengths. without having a good understanding of trig, you're not likely to really understand phase and time alignment. don't ever feel stupid about it. it's just technical.



Sure. I got it. Definitely triple integral calculus might be a stretch after 20 years but I still thankfully remember trig. Actually enjoyed it. I guess I had a block with how it was applied in car audio gear. Had always thought of "phase" only as in speaker polarity from wiring as opposed to digital delay.


----------



## maddawg

If anyone is interested in getting a DSP Pro send me a message, I know for sure we have one left, might have two. I would have to check the stock room they have sold fast.


----------



## davewpy

ErinH said:


> ^ I hope to drop by Steve's shop this week and pick mine up. I might wind up getting a 2nd one for my HT setup as well.


I wanted to do that too! But I have no idea what to use for powering up the DSP...

Was thinking of using that to process signals to my amplifier's analog in for my fronts and use a Y connector to my active sub for pure music.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## WestCo

Replace AC to DC 24V 10A 240W Regulated Switching Power Converter Supply Silver | eBay

That should do the trick

Any AC/DC converter that will put out around 10 Amps. A modified computer power supply can be used to bench test amps as well.

Makes life MUCH easier and home testing possible (which is a great way to A/B test gear).


----------



## davewpy

Not 12v? Damn, I'll give this a try on my PP82DSP.

So as long as I can get a 24v 600w converter I will be able to power a 600w amp?

Thanks man.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

I'd assume you need a 12v converter. You'll need to check the manual to see what input voltage it accepts.


----------



## WestCo

12V 10A 120W Switch Power Supply Driver for LED Lights | eBay

Good catch, sorry you need the 12v version. The one I have has a knob to adjust the voltage.


----------



## ErinH

here's the specs you'd need to adhere to:

Operating voltage - 9,6 - 18 Volts, short drops (up to 5 sec.) down to 6 Volts acceptable 
Current draw- 450 mA

So, the one Joe linked above will work fine and leave you plenty of output left over for an additional accessory. 

Alternatively, you could something like this:
Amazon.com: AC Power Adapter 120V, 240V / 12V-1A / 5.5mm-2.1mm: Electronics


Basically, any wall-wart that provides you with the voltage and amperage listed above will suffice.


----------



## ErinH

Here's the one I have for powering little things like this:
E-Goal 12V 5A 60W DC Switch Power Supply Driver For LED Strip Light Display Whit E-Goal Robbin - - Amazon.com

I like it a lot. For less than $10 from amazon prime, I'm not sure I could beat it.


----------



## WestCo

ErinH said:


> Here's the one I have for powering little things like this:
> E-Goal 12V 5A 60W DC Switch Power Supply Driver For LED Strip Light Display Whit E-Goal Robbin - - Amazon.com
> 
> I like it a lot. For less than $10 from amazon prime, I'm not sure I could beat it.



Nice one!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

Tested mine out in my HT and all is well. Looks like I'll have to get a second one to go in my car since this one is staying in the HT. 






















For those curious, the case is opened up so I could adjust the input sensitivity.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

More details please! Much of a sound difference between this and your old Helix DSP? How much sensitivity control do you have?


----------



## WestCo

Architect7 said:


> More details please! Much of a sound difference between this and your old Helix DSP? How much sensitivity control do you have?



X2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ErinH

Didn't compare it in the car so I can't say it sounds different than the regular helix. 

Sensitivity controls... Check the manual (it's available online).


----------



## Guest

Erin:
I'm quite curious of the AutoEQ feature.... Have you played around with it yet ?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Tested mine out in my HT and all is well. Looks like I'll have to get a second one to go in my car since this one is staying in the HT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those curious, the case is opened up so I could adjust the input sensitivity.


erin buy mine - pm on FB


----------



## Jazz80

Still wait for the review..


----------



## davewpy

Staring at it - can't do anything until we figured out what's wrong with the popping sound in my car.


----------



## bradknob

Jazz80 said:


> Still wait for the review..



I've had mine installed for a couple weeks with just T/A and x-overs set. I'll get to tuning in the next couple days now that all my pieces are are in place and will write about it in my thread...


http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/bui...ery/164071-2012-ram-crew-cab-sport-build.html


I'll share my initial impressions tho. Only DSP I've had experience with was an Ms-8, helix DSP, then just moved to the PRO so take it for what it's worth. Both Helixes have ZERO floor noise or hiss. Both are more quiet than the MS-8. The helix, without any EQ, sounded much more airy and open after a direct swap from the ms-8. I did notice vocals and some instruments like saxes and acoustic guitars were also a little more realistic with the Helixes as well.

Helix DSP compared to the pro... I went through an amp, sub and tweeter change all about the same time so the differences could be a multitude of factors but the software is where the pro takes the cake. The .25 level increments are awesome, although I never thought it would that big of a deal until I had em. You can now group speakers and T/A all together, making it easier to shift imaging.... You would really have to play with both versions of the software to see all the changes


----------



## WestCo

Doing some listening tests THIS weekend.
C-DSP vs DSP-PRO

Source: Pioneer ODR
Amp: Modified c2k4.0 biased toward A
Speakers: Jamo towers (not the best, but I am very familiar with them.)


----------



## bbfoto

UPDATE: CRUTCHFIELD AVAILABILITY

If anyone is interested, the DSP PRO is IN STOCK and will be available to order at Crutchfield. FYI, you can probably get this unit for quite a bit less $ if you have a local dealer, but again, Crutchfield has great customer service and a 60-day return policy (if you keep everything intact). 

Here's the email that I received today (Dec. 10, 2014) from a Crutchfield Sales Advisor:

_"Bill,

The Helix DSP shipment just showed up today. My IT department is building a webpage for it now and I can email you the link once I have it in a day or two. I show a quantity of 7 I have right now, and I am sure I will get more in the future. They are priced at $999.99 and it looks like I can place an order for the item at any time. If you’d like to order please let me know and I will call you at the number you provide.

Regards,

Chance"_




WestCo said:


> Doing some listening tests THIS weekend.
> C-DSP vs DSP-PRO
> 
> Source: Pioneer ODR
> Amp: Modified c2k4.0 biased toward A
> Speakers: Jamo towers (not the best, but I am very familiar with them.)


Looking forward to your impressions, as well as Erin's and _bradknob_'s.


----------



## Duckstu

Wow, wow, WOW.

Just replaced another DSP (which shall remain un-named),... and with just a quick and dirty setup (basic crossover points and channel assignments) it already flat-smokes my previous unit.

This weekend I'll have time to get into time-alignment, EQ'ing etc. I had the gains on the amps set pretty well to start with (as the previous unit had no user control of levels),.... and listening to a test sweep it sounds darn-near perfect. 

I'm blown away by the features, speed, etc of the setup. Pretty much anything I can imagine doing is just a mouse-click away from happening. And you hear the results in real time. Turn a channel on or off,... change a crossover point etc and it happens in a fraction of a second. So cool.


----------



## Jazz80

WestCo said:


> Doing some listening tests THIS weekend.
> C-DSP vs DSP-PRO
> 
> Source: Pioneer ODR
> Amp: Modified c2k4.0 biased toward A
> Speakers: Jamo towers (not the best, but I am very familiar with them.)


How's the result? I really want to know. Now I use Helix cdsp and have plan to replace it with the pro.


----------



## quality_sound

Anyone know of any dealers other than Crutchfield? Kinda want to give one a whirl even though I only need 6 channels of output. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

Managed to hear it for the first time. But my feedback might be useless, as it was a total change from PP82DSP to Helix DSP Pro with RF T600.4.

Quite immediately - there was a difference in the clarity and frequencies that I've not heard off in my usual songs started popping up.

I'm not really enjoying it right now because of installation issues encountered in my car.

No hiss, no nothing at pretty loud volumes while HU wasn't playing anything.

Let me know if you guys want to test anything, specific, i will make time to do it.


----------



## WestCo

quality_sound said:


> Anyone know of any dealers other than Crutchfield? Kinda want to give one a whirl even though I only need 6 channels of output.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will likely be selling my c and dsp pro after the a-b test. LMK


----------



## WestCo

Jazz80 said:


> How's the result? I really want to know. Now I use Helix cdsp and have plan to replace it with the pro.


2 Days away I am going to do a preview tonight.
I will have to get a little clever with the crossover settings. None of the ODR channels can do full range output
Mid is the most versitile 150hz or so up to 20khz
Hopefully I can grab 150 down from the sub channel and integrate that with the c and pro. If not I have some other very nice sources to try.


----------



## Duckstu

WestCo said:


> None of the ODR channels can do full range output
> Mid is the most versitile 150hz or so up to 20khz



You can't just set the high-pass to "defeat"? Or set the high-pass slope to zero?


----------



## WestCo

Duckstu said:


> You can't just set the high-pass to "defeat"? Or set the high-pass slope to zero?


Tried that, set all the slopes to 0, but it still cuts off the frequency response. I tried moving the xover points as far as they would go also.

I can try again tomorrow. I want to clean up my bench some and get some new primary wires. I received the unit last night, so there is a good bit I have to do. 
I just wanted to make sure that she functioned after her trip from Texas.


----------



## quality_sound

WestCo said:


> I will likely be selling my c and dsp pro after the a-b test. LMK


PM sent


----------



## WestCo

Of course after we are done a/b testing the dsp's we are going to have a little RCA cable shootout 

Just for fun


----------



## greydmv

Is there any more information on the controller? Bluetooth with an app maybe like the Mosconi?


----------



## Babs

quality_sound said:


> Anyone know of any dealers other than Crutchfield? Kinda want to give one a whirl even though I only need 6 channels of output.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You have PM


----------



## subterFUSE

greydmv said:


> Is there any more information on the controller? Bluetooth with an app maybe like the Mosconi?


There is a bluetooth AptX module planned soon.

The controller aka "Director" is also on the way soon, according to Audiotec Fischer on their Facebook page.


----------



## quality_sound

Babs said:


> You have PM


I got it. Thanks!


----------



## backousis

hi guys how do you contact auditech-fisher?
i asked a question at their website and didn't receive a respond.


----------



## Duckstu

Has anyone used the RTA portion of the software for the Pro?

I was planning to use my Behringer mic and TruRTA on a second laptop,.. but now I'm thinking of using an MM6 USB mic and trying it right into the Helix software.

Does it display right on the EQ screen?

Does it generate test taps for time-alignment and pink-noise for EQ?

That will be sweet if it does. Could cut tuning time down from 1/2 day to an hour or less. Imagine playing pink noise,...seeing the results on the EQ / crossover screen,... and adjusting the EQ in real time and seeing the results in real time?


----------



## quality_sound

That is exactly why I'm thinking about one. Then again, if I use an Audison amp I may use a Bitsomethimgorother to maintain a digital signal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jcharger13

No, it doesn't generate any output signal (pink noise, etc). You have to use a cd or an app. 

I was kinda bummed about this but the RTA in the DSP pro is fairly basic, it basically records for 20 seconds while you move the mic around your head and averages the recorded response. Then you can eq manually or you can set a curve and have the DSP set the eq to match the curve that you can set or they have a standard house curve. You can have it eq one speaker at a time, one side at a time or all at once. 

It's a good system to get you 80% of the way there, you still need to T/A yourself, and I still like using rew as its a bit more precise than a 1/3 RTA. 

Here is a link to a magazine article that Helix put out that has lots of good info. It's for the C-DSP, DSP but most still applies to the pro. The RTA section is Praxis but the RTA in the DSP works similar but has an auto mode. 

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/file... Special No.1 - The sound tuning magazine.pdf


----------



## subterFUSE

Honestly, you can accomplish a heck of a lot with REW and a non-USB microphone. Impulse response with loopback as timing reference can help with time alignment and even phase angle (if you get clean measurements).

The Auto EQ feature can be used to create parametric EQ filters that can be entered into the Helix software.

There really isn't much of an advantage to using the RTA in the DSP itself.


----------



## Hanatsu

Agree ^^

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Honestly, you can accomplish a heck of a lot with REW and a non-USB microphone. Impulse response with loopback as timing reference can help with time alignment and even phase angle (if you get clean measurements).
> 
> 
> 
> The Auto EQ feature can be used to create parametric EQ filters that can be entered into the Helix software.
> 
> 
> 
> There really isn't much of an advantage to using the RTA in the DSP itself.



REW had an auto eq? Oh snap! I really gotta play with that mic I have.


----------



## Duckstu

Ahh, ok. So that's what it's doing.

Yeah, I read that article,.. but it didn't seem to touch on the RTA feature. I presumed it was because it came out with the V3 software.

Yeah you got to do a quick crossover set,... then time-align everything. Then go back and fine-tune the crossover set-points.
Then and only then do you even dream of EQ'ing anything. If the rest is right,.. you should need VERY little EQ.

I've been using a pink-noise CD.

Not sure what REW is. An RTA program of some sort?

I use TrueRTA which is a 1/24th octave RTA program (244 bands I think?).

It also has an output,.. so you can send pink-noise through the system,... or do fast sweeps, test tones etc. And then save them and compare the graphs.

That's what I've been using,.. but it was a bit slow with both programs open in the same laptop.

I'll stuff that TrueRTA into my wife's laptop tonight and work on it some more.

TrueRTA screen looks like this BTW. (Screen shot of another vehicle before work began)









.


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> REW had an auto eq? Oh snap! I really gotta play with that mic I have.


Yes. It will recommend EQ filters to match a House Curve you can program.


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Yes. It will recommend EQ filters to match a House Curve you can program.


Well that simply rocks.



Duckstu said:


> Yeah you got to do a quick crossover set,... then time-align everything. Then go back and fine-tune the crossover set-points.
> Then and only then do you even dream of EQ'ing anything. If the rest is right,.. you should need VERY little EQ.
> 
> Not sure what REW is. An RTA program of some sort?


Room EQ Wizard

And agreed.. The XO settings, TA and levels are the foundation to get right first.


----------



## subterFUSE

According to latest DSP Pro manual online, the new Director control will be available starting in January.

It will also have a touch screen.


----------



## bradknob

Mmmmm touch screen. I'm gonna need one of those.


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> According to latest DSP Pro manual online, the new Director control will be available starting in January.
> 
> It will also have a touch screen.


AND.. An "autoset" function for EQ-only assisted tuning based on the built in RTA. Pretty dang slick!


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> AND.. An "autoset" function for EQ-only assisted tuning based on the built in RTA. Pretty dang slick!


Yup. And, it's designed to take multiple/averaged readings, not just a single fixed one.


----------



## quality_sound

Maaaaaaan, I've been trying to tell myself I don't need to try this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Either of these DSP or Pro able to read from a Dayton mic or their mic only?


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> Either of these DSP or Pro able to read from a Dayton mic or their mic only?



I think only a USB mic will work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sqnut

Duckstu said:


> Yeah you got to do a quick crossover set,... then time-align everything. Then go back and fine-tune the crossover set-points.
> Then and only then do you even dream of EQ'ing anything. If the rest is right,.. you should need VERY little EQ.


Setting Xovers, slopes and TA is a 10 min job you really don't need to focus on it more than that, at least for a start. Once this is done 90% of the work is on the EQ. No matter how much you tweak the xovers and TA you will still need to EQ a lot. 90% of tuning to get a car sounding like a home 2ch is on the eq. 



Duckstu said:


> TrueRTA screen looks like this BTW. (Screen shot of another vehicle before work began)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Does that mess look like something you can cure 90% with just XO and TA thereby only needing 10% EQ? Spend as long as you want setting XO and TA the way you want, then measure the response. What does it look like and how much EQ do you need to smooth things out?


----------



## davewpy

Quick question, I've got channel G and H connected to my amp, and then wiring on the amp side is bridged to a single sub. What should the IO setting be?

I've got it set to front L + R for both G and H right now and it seems right, I'm not sure. Or should it be Front L for G and Front R for H?


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> I think only a USB mic will work.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine is a Dayton UMM-6. So I'm guessing it might then if the tool and the mic will shake hands.


----------



## Hanatsu

Let the word be heard. EQ is NOT EVIL. Stop saying "it required minimal EQ" - no system and I mean NO SYSTEM requires "minimal EQ". It's an audiophile foolery myth. The absolute best systems I've ever heard used FIR based DSPs with several thousands of filter taps (not talking about car audio specifically). The more EQ you use at the correct places the better your system will be. It's paramount that the data obtained in a measurement is correct in order for a high resolution EQ to do its job.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jcharger13

Babs said:


> Mine is a Dayton UMM-6. So I'm guessing it might then if the tool and the mic will shake hands.


I think it'll work fine. I use a minidsp UMik and it works fine with the DSP pro RTA.


----------



## Babs

Good to know.. I'll definitely give it a shot. Thought I attempted it briefly with no joy, however, the old laptop I'm using is rather sketchy at best. I should clarify though I'm using version 2 with a standard DSP so all bets may be off on that.


----------



## Jazz80

Hanatsu said:


> Let the word be heard. EQ is NOT EVIL. Stop saying "it required minimal EQ" - no system and I mean NO SYSTEM requires "minimal EQ". It's an audiophile foolery myth. The absolute best systems I've ever heard used FIR based DSPs with several thousands of filter taps (not talking about car audio specifically). The more EQ you use at the correct places the better your system will be. It's paramount that the data obtained in a measurement is correct in order for a high resolution EQ to do its job.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


Totally agree..


----------



## Duckstu

sqnut said:


> Setting Xovers, slopes and TA is a 10 min job you really don't need to focus on it more than that, at least for a start. Once this is done 90% of the work is on the EQ. No matter how much you tweak the xovers and TA you will still need to EQ a lot. 90% of tuning to get a car sounding like a home 2ch is on the eq.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mess look like something you can cure 90% with just XO and TA thereby only needing 10% EQ? Spend as long as you want setting XO and TA the way you want, then measure the response. What does it look like and how much EQ do you need to smooth things out?


Are there FIR units available? The Helix DSP Pro is an IIR isn't it?

In my experience yes,... much of that mess in that RTA picture is often curable by time alignment. Not all of course,.. but the biggest stuff usually. And if it's not,... EQ probably won't fix it either. (the big stuff I mean)

Depends of course on what the cause of the problem is. Presuming the drivers you install play fairly flat within the freq range that yo have them crossed at,... the response should be reasonably flat also. But them of course it's in a car,.. which is a sonic disaster area. If it's just that the mids are low in the doors and are off-axis and are too quiet near where they meet the tweets,.. then sure,.. an EQ boost in the higher freq's can bring them in line. But if it's comb-filtering that the problem (caused by bad reflections in the car),.. then EQ may not stand a chance.

For example,.. in the picture above there's a 23 db dip at 200 hz. Putting a 4Q filter on top of that and boosting it 23 db would call for 4000 watts PER door. Obviously that's not going to work.

But if the issue is caused by a cancellation in time-alignment,.. it might go away with a simple time adjustment. Or perhaps by some carefully placed sound-absorbing material,... or perhaps by changing the angle of the mid-bass drivers so they're not aiming right at a flat surface like the plastic center console. If nothing like that works,.. you'll probably just have to ignore a dip that size. And being as it's fairly narrow,... you probably won't ever notice..



I have yet to find an easy way to do TA. Any advice?

The tape measure method gets you somewhat in the ball-park (you have to measure from the voice-coil windings to your ear, and not from the grill),.. but it doesn't work very well with a sub. As anyone that has an HT setup knows,.. the subs are often set a number of feet different than their actual distance,... whereas the mains are usually within 1/2".

I have used saw taps for TA, and that seems really easy for setting the 4 mid-bass drivers to each-other,.. but my ear doesn't seem to know when it is correct for matching the tweets to the mids.

An industry pro is a friend of mine. I may be able to get him to come over and show me.

He has a mic setup that is far better than the UUM-6 and Behringer ones that I have.

Really I need to treat the car's interior. There is a massive amount of comb filtering going on,.. and no amount of EQ will fix that.


----------



## Hanatsu

Duckstu said:


> 1. The Helix DSP Pro is an IIR isn't it?
> 
> 2. much of that mess in that RTA picture is often curable by time alignment. Not all of course,.. but the biggest stuff usually. And if it's not,... EQ probably won't fix it either. (the big stuff I mean)
> 
> 3. Depends of course on what the cause of the problem is. Presuming the drivers you install play fairly flat within the freq range that yo have them crossed at,... the response should be reasonably flat also. But them of course it's in a car,.. which is a sonic disaster area. If it's just that the mids are low in the doors and are off-axis and are too quiet near where they meet the tweets,.. then sure,.. an EQ boost in the higher freq's can bring them in line. But if it's comb-filtering that the problem (caused by bad reflections in the car),.. then EQ may not stand a chance.
> 
> 4. For example,.. in the picture above there's a 23 db dip at 200 hz. Putting a 4Q filter on top of that and boosting it 23 db would call for 4000 watts PER door. Obviously that's not going to work.
> 
> 5. But if the issue is caused by a cancellation in time-alignment,.. it might go away with a simple time adjustment. Or perhaps by some carefully placed sound-absorbing material,... or perhaps by changing the angle of the mid-bass drivers so they're not aiming right at a flat surface like the plastic center console. If nothing like that works,.. you'll probably just have to ignore a dip that size. And being as it's fairly narrow,... you probably won't ever notice..
> 
> 
> 
> 6. I have yet to find an easy way to do TA. Any advice?
> 
> 7. The tape measure method gets you somewhat in the ball-park (you have to measure from the voice-coil windings to your ear, and not from the grill),.. but it doesn't work very well with a sub. As anyone that has an HT setup knows,.. the subs are often set a number of feet different than their actual distance,... whereas the mains are usually within 1/2".
> 
> I have used saw taps for TA, and that seems really easy for setting the 4 mid-bass drivers to each-other,.. but my ear doesn't seem to know when it is correct for matching the tweets to the mids.
> 
> An industry pro is a friend of mine. I may be able to get him to come over and show me.
> 
> He has a mic setup that is far better than the UUM-6 and Behringer ones that I have.
> 
> 8. Really I need to treat the car's interior. There is a massive amount of comb filtering going on,.. and no amount of EQ will fix that.


1. Helix is IIR based.

2. IF you running both sides and measuring the response T/A will affect the response if the delay is misaligned. I disagree that it will fix "the bigger stuff". As long as there's no destructive interference - then EQ will fix it. 

3. As you said, a car ain't a good place to reproduce music in. Speakers might be 'flat' measured in nearfield but the power response at listening position will most likely be 10dB +/-. Also, tuning for 'flat' isn't a good practice in a car.

4. You don't EQ non-minimal phase regions. Misalignments in T/A is very unlikely to mess up the response that much. A complete null at a given frequency calls for a relative phase shift close to 180deg. It's easy to check, measure L/R separately and see if the issue is still there.

5. Sound absorbing materials in a car is unfortunately useless in a practical sense. You might attenuate frequencies above 10kHz slightly with "useable" solutions. Midwoofer angle doesn't matter unless it's lowpassed far beyond the beaming point. In the omnidirectional range, the angle does not matter much. You're correct about narrow dips/peaks are less audible than wide deviations.

6. T/A is extremely easy if the install is properly executed and L/R EQ is tuned beforehand. Just listen to a mono recording and adjust until the stage moves into the acoustic center. With midrange drivers low in doors, the stage tend to get diffuse.

7. T/A on subs is not required. Phase alignment ay crossover and EQ/level matching is much more important.

8. How? You can't treat the entire car with the absorbent material required. Processing is the way to go imo. Lots of issues can be taken care of with a good DSP. There are EQ's that can drastically improve combing. Look at my RTA plot below;



(Both sides active, measured and averaged in listening space, unsmoothed)


----------



## SkizeR

are there any FIR based DSP's in car audio yet?


----------



## subterFUSE

SkizeR said:


> are there any FIR based DSP's in car audio yet?



miniDSP can be used in a car and there is an FIR plug in available for their openDRC platform.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

Ms8, H800 is FIR based I believe. The one I use, called APL is fully customable. MiniSharc is FIR based but I think it's limited to 2048taps.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## hykhleif

i was wondering if there is any news about the controller, and will it be a full controller or just for volume and bass

also from where can i buy for the helix pro the bluetooth input any links


----------



## subterFUSE

hykhleif said:


> i was wondering if there is any news about the controller, and will it be a full controller or just for volume and bass
> 
> also from where can i buy for the helix pro the bluetooth input any links


The latest report I heard was going to be about February for the new "director" control.

It is a full controller with 2.8" touch screen.
Will be able to control master volume, sub volume, source selection, preset selection of 20 DSP presets.

The Bluetooth HEC module will be available sometime before the Director. Probably in January. There will also be a HEC module for a second optical input. That's the one I want.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

SkizeR said:


> are there any FIR based DSP's in car audio yet?


WAF Nadja and Clarion DRZ-9255/HX-D2/HX-D3.

But not required in a car since we control phase via TA instead of filters.


----------



## Hanatsu

Architect7 said:


> But not required in a car since we control phase via TA instead of filters.


It's not the same thing... and FIR DSPs does have its place.


----------



## SPLEclipse

Jcharger13 said:


> No, it doesn't generate any output signal (pink noise, etc). You have to use a cd or an app.
> 
> I was kinda bummed about this but the RTA in the DSP pro is fairly basic, it basically records for 20 seconds while you move the mic around your head and averages the recorded response. Then you can eq manually or you can set a curve and have the DSP set the eq to match the curve that you can set or they have a standard house curve. You can have it eq one speaker at a time, one side at a time or all at once.
> 
> It's a good system to get you 80% of the way there, you still need to T/A yourself, and I still like using rew as its a bit more precise than a 1/3 RTA.
> 
> Here is a link to a magazine article that Helix put out that has lots of good info. It's for the C-DSP, DSP but most still applies to the pro. The RTA section is Praxis but the RTA in the DSP works similar but has an auto mode.
> 
> http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/file... Special No.1 - The sound tuning magazine.pdf





Babs said:


> Either of these DSP or Pro able to read from a Dayton mic or their mic only?


Babs - if you're referring to the built-in RTA in the "regular ol'" Helix software, then yes, any mic will work. I tried my homemade Panasonic capsule mic among several other non-USB style mics and all of them worked right off the bat. My computer settings were set up for REW before hand and I didn't have to make any adjustments on the computer end going between the two. That being said...the Helix RTA is nice for a quick glance but not much use for in-depth measurement. I found it to be adequate and accurate for that use though.


----------



## charliekwin

hykhleif said:


> i was wondering if there is any news about the controller, and will it be a full controller or just for volume and bass
> 
> also from where can i buy for the helix pro the bluetooth input any links


From Facebook:

Der Director wird mit allen aktuellen DSP Produkten aus unserem Hause kompatibel sein und produktspezifisch verscheidene Funktionen bieten. Bei dem HELIX DSP PRO werden folgende Funktionen angeboten: Mastervolume, getrennte Lautstärkeregelung für alle sekundären Signalquellen, Signalquellenumschaltung, Subwooferlautstärkeregelung, Sound-Setup Umschaltung und 20 zusätzliche Sound Setup Speicherplätze in der Fernbedienung. Bei Verwendung eines HEC BT Moduls können zusätzlich alle Bluetooth Connect (Pairing, Reconnect, Disconnect) und Bluetooth Control (Track vor/zurück, play/pause) Funktionen bedient werden. Die Steuerung wird über ein Dreh-Encoder und einen 2.8" Touchscreen realisiert. Das Gerät besitzt einen USB-Anschluss über den direkt auf den angeschlossenen DSP zugegriffen werden kann.

My (really rough) translation: the Director will be compatible with all our products and control several product-specific functions. For the DSP Pro, it will control: master volume, volume control for secondary signals, source switching, subwoofer volume, and preset switching. All Bluetooth connect and control functions are available if you have the HEC Bluetooth module. It uses a knob(?) and 2.8" touchscreen for control and connects via USB.


For guys like me with the old DSP-P, I'm excited about the possibility of compatibility!


----------



## Duckstu

Question on input setup.

Is there a way to see what the input level is?

I.E. I wondering if I can get more level by turning up the inputs, but don't want to take the unit apart if I don't have to (also it's kind of buried where it's installed).

Can I see anywhere on the connected laptop what the input voltages are? Or is the only way to do it to set the HU to 90% or so,.. and then crank up the dash-pots until the clipping light blinks,.. then back off a touch?

As this unit seems totally noise free,.. I may just crank up the inputs on the amps.


----------



## subterFUSE

Duckstu said:


> Question on input setup.
> 
> Is there a way to see what the input level is?
> 
> 
> I.E. I wondering if I can get more level by turning up the inputs, but don't want to take the unit apart if I don't have to (also it's kind of buried where it's installed).
> 
> Can I see anywhere on the connected laptop what the input voltages are? Or is the only way to do it to set the HU to 90% or so,.. and then crank up the dash-pots until the clipping light blinks,.. then back off a touch?
> 
> As this unit seems totally noise free,.. I may just crank up the inputs on the amps.



My preference is to use an oscilloscope on each piece of gear through the audio signal chain. *always disconnect speakers from amps before beginning*

Starting with the head unit, using a 0dB sine wave signal, I test the maximum volume of the source before clipping occurs. That becomes the "set it and forget it" volume level for the source.

Next I test the amps and set the gains. For this, I use attenuated test tones. -5dB overlap for tweets and mids, and -10dB overlap for my subwoofers. Set the DSP volume at max, and then use the scope to adjust the amp gains just below clipping.


----------



## Duckstu

subterFUSE said:


> My preference is to use an oscilloscope on each piece of gear through the audio signal chain. *always disconnect speakers from amps before beginning*
> 
> Starting with the head unit, using a 0dB sine wave signal, I test the maximum volume of the source before clipping occurs. That becomes the "set it and forget it" volume level for the source.
> 
> Next I test the amps and set the gains. For this, I use attenuated test tones. -5dB overlap for tweets and mids, and -10dB overlap for my subwoofers. Set the DSP volume at max, and then use the scope to adjust the amp gains just below clipping.



I don;t have a ociliscope,.. though my True RTA program has it as a feature.

Perhaps you're talking about integrating with a factory HU?

I should be more clear.

I have an aftermarket HU with 2 volt pre-outs, and have it connected with a single pair of RCA's to a Helix DSP Pro.

I presume the Pioneer HU clips in the last 10% of it's volume range like almost all Japanese HU's do,... so with the volume control set at 90% of full, I want the Helix to be set to where it has just about all of the input signal it can handle.

Also, I plan to continue using the HU's volume control,.. and not a remote for the DSP.

I wonder what voltage the DSP Pro is set for from the factory?


----------



## subterFUSE

According to the Audiotec Fischer website, the HEC modules have now been released and are available.

They should be here in the USA within a few weeks, I think.


HEC Bluetooth
HEC Aux
HEC Optical In


----------



## Duckstu

Will be nice when the manual for the V.3 tuning software comes out.

Many things are the same as the version 2.0. But some things are changed, like the time alignment,... which is now just in cm. (Previous versions I guess would let you enter the distances for each driver, and then it would give you values for each channel?)

Presume the cm is centimeters,... and presumably you measure from the voice-coil to your ear. 

But do you adjust the slider for the distance that each driver is from your ear? Or measure the distance of the farthest driver, and make that one zero,...... and then give the others values based on how much *closer* they are to your ear than the farthest one?

I presume it's the latter,.. as the unit can;t speed up time, (only delay it),... and it doesn't seem to do "a calculation" and re-adjust anything.
.


----------



## hykhleif

subterFUSE said:


> According to the Audiotec Fischer website, the HEC modules have now been released and are available.
> 
> They should be here in the USA within a few weeks, I think.
> 
> 
> HEC Bluetooth
> HEC Aux
> HEC Optical In


links please from where to buy online


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Hanatsu said:


> It's not the same thing... and FIR DSPs does have its place.


I did not say it was the same, it just is not as important in an automotive environment. More reading here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ve-fir-filtering-must-have-toslink-input.html


----------



## ErinH

question for you guys running digital (if you aren't, don't waste your time reading this)...

I updated to 3.03 software last night and noticed some things that flat out suck:
1) I can't alter the output assignments at all
2) I can't do a differential signal on any of the channels because when I add the secondary channel and flip the polarity, that channel goes away entirely.

I emailed Helix about these issue. I'm curious if anyone else has ran in to these.


----------



## Jcharger13

ErinH said:


> question for you guys running digital (if you aren't, don't waste your time reading this)...
> 
> I updated to 3.03 software last night and noticed some things that flat out suck:
> 1) I can't alter the output assignments at all
> 2) I can't do a differential signal on any of the channels because when I add the secondary channel and flip the polarity, that channel goes away entirely.
> 
> I emailed Helix about these issue. I'm curious if anyone else has ran in to these.


Yes, I noticed the exact same things when using digital input.


----------



## subterFUSE

Uh oh. Mine is being installed very soon, and we plan to use Digital inputs.

We will have to report back if we have the same issue, but this does not sound good at this point.


----------



## Jcharger13

Duckstu said:


> Will be nice when the manual for the V.3 tuning software comes out.
> 
> Many things are the same as the version 2.0. But some things are changed, like the time alignment,... which is now just in cm. (Previous versions I guess would let you enter the distances for each driver, and then it would give you values for each channel?)
> 
> Presume the cm is centimeters,... and presumably you measure from the voice-coil to your ear.
> 
> But do you adjust the slider for the distance that each driver is from your ear? Or measure the distance of the farthest driver, and make that one zero,...... and then give the others values based on how much *closer* they are to your ear than the farthest one?
> 
> I presume it's the latter,.. as the unit can;t speed up time, (only delay it),... and it doesn't seem to do "a calculation" and re-adjust anything.
> .


If you want inch instead of cm click on where the distance is shown (0.00 cm for example) and it'll change to inch. Do this in the "main" tab/page.

To set alignment. Just enter the distances to each speaker and it'll calculate the delays for you. No need to subtract from the furthest speaker. The software will set the furthest speaker to 0ms then delay each speaker accordingly. Click on the time tab on the upper right hand side, lots of info in there.


----------



## ErinH

Jcharger13 said:


> Yes, I noticed the exact same things when using digital input.


that irks me.


I'll post any feedback I get from them on this. I have friends running this digitally so I'll have to see how they set their channels up. Maybe it's only a v3.03 issue? Or do you know if it happens on the 3.01b software version as well?


----------



## Guest

Erin,
Maybe contact Tim... I know he's running the Pro digitally and loving it...
Haven't heard him speak of any issues...


----------



## ErinH

already have. I'm curious if this is just an issue with the new software. will see what he says and go from there.


----------



## Jcharger13

I tried the digital differential signal on 3.01b when I first got my DSP and the input dropped away, now the new software is the same. When I originally noticed the issue I was surprised that no one mentioned it so I thought it may just be something with my setup. 

I was wondering if the DSP can't do a L-R digitally because possibly it does the differential summing when converting from the signal from a-d. Just a guess but it seems strange that this is still an issue with the new software. 

I came to the conclusion if they can't fix this then I'll be running analog inputs when I try rear fill. Bummer.


----------



## ErinH

yea. that's really going to suck if this is something they can't fix. the rear-fill option is almost the sole reason I purchased the pro. 

I'm hoping it's just a glitch. The fact that I can't change any of the assignments for the outputs bothers me, but gives me hope these are just issues they didn't catch with the software. I imagine there aren't a lot of people running digitally (compared to analog users).


----------



## Jcharger13

You are probably right on the number of digital users. 

On the output issue if you assign the outputs of the main routing it sets the digital outputs to the same. I think they have you set it up in one place and it follows through to the other inputs also. That way no matter which input you are using your output assignments remain the same. 
I didn't have any problems with that.


----------



## ErinH

I'll give that a shot. Thanks.


----------



## geogena

Subscribe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

Has anyone found a need to adjust the potentiometers for the input gains when using analogue connection yet?


----------



## Duckstu

davewpy said:


> Has anyone found a need to adjust the potentiometers for the input gains when using analogue connection yet?



I did.

I'm using a Pioneer head unit that came with my car, which only has 2v pre-outs.

I wasn't getting enough level,... so I opened the Helix Pro up,... disconnected the out-bound RCA's and cranked the radio almost all the way up (38 our of 40).

Then I turned down the potentiometers. They went to the left (CCW) like 3/4 a turn until they stopped,.. and still the input clipping light didn't flash. I left them there.

If I liked it REALLY loud I would have wanted to go even further. I didn't look into moving the pin jumpers. I think they're in the lower setting already though,... aren't they?

Anyway,.. better yet would be for me to get a real HU. LOL Something with a 4-8v pre-out. Perhaps I'll put my Eclipse in there? It has 8v pre's.

I'm waiting to see what gets introduced after this years CES. Supposedly there's a new Parrot unit coming out that's supposed to blow away the current one. Would be neat if it is bug-free and has digital out.


----------



## davewpy

Just to share, was with my installer using and oscope and adjusting gains. The X008 that I have was not outputting voltage linearly as per the volume control.

I.e, at vol 26, I get 1 volt. At Max vol 35, it was sending 3.3v.

The voltage literally jumped past vol 30.

The speaker level output from the amp would always distort past 7.3v.

As I understand, I'm suppose to get squared root of 100w x 4ohms at the highest level.. Which is about 24 volt. This will never happen in my circumstances and I'm wondering if turning down the gain on DSP pro will help.... Can't wrap my head around this.


----------



## sirbOOm

If I remember correctly from the rare instance I have to test a used head unit, voltage should increase linearly so maybe the head unit is bad? I don't remember what happened going to max volume on the couple of head units I had to bench test but seems weird that Alpine, of all makers, would have voltage output jump from 30 to 35...


----------



## mathematics

Incorrect. Volume increases exponentially, not linearly.


----------



## ErinH

mathematics said:


> Incorrect. Volume increases exponentially, not linearly.


Exactly.


----------



## davewpy

Exponentially with voltage right? But what we saw as a result of measurement was that it was increasing inconsistently. Think that's the right word to use.

Is it right to have 7.3v showing on a 100w @ 4 ohms per channel amp before clipping, no matter what the HU volume was at?

I am so lost. ?. It feels right but yet I'm thinking of meddling with the potentiometers on the DSP input gains. Hahaha


----------



## ErinH

I got a reply back from Helix about my two questions. Though, the first has already been answered here, I'll just keep it anyway.

Quoting myself so the answer and questions are all in order...




ErinH said:


> question for you guys running digital (if you aren't, don't waste your time reading this)...
> 
> I updated to 3.03 software last night and noticed some things that flat out suck:
> 1) I can't alter the output assignments at all
> 2) I can't do a differential signal on any of the channels because when I add the secondary channel and flip the polarity, that channel goes away entirely.
> 
> I emailed Helix about these issue. I'm curious if anyone else has ran in to these.






> Dear Erin,
> 
> thanks for your mail which I like to answer as folows:
> 
> 1) the outputs can only be assigned in the "Main Routing" matrix - those settings will then be used as well in the other routings matrices
> So please make your assignment in the Main Routing matrix. If you only use a digital source, then you don't need to use the "Digital Routing" matrix - you can
> "drag & drop the digital input as well to the main matrix.
> 
> 2) This is definitely a software bug - I just checked it on my PC and had exactly the same failure. Actually it only happens in the "Digital Routing" matrix and seems to be ok in the other matrices.
> I will report this bug to our software engineer in order to fix it asap.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Robin Krichel




so, good news is the L-R/R-L stuff should be addressed soon.


----------



## bbfoto

^Thanks for that, Erin!


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> I got a reply back from Helix about my two questions. Though, the first has already been answered here, I'll just keep it anyway.
> 
> Quoting myself so the answer and questions are all in order...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, good news is the L-R/R-L stuff should be addressed soon.


Interesting that they will respond to your emails, but none of the 3 I sent?!


----------



## ErinH

Probably because I found a problem that can be fixed? Lol.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Yup, can't fix version 2.80? I've reported 3 bugs and no responses? With the all post deploment RnD work we provide them, you would think they would at least acknowledge they are looking into the issues


----------



## lizardking

How are you guys using the Helix DSP Pro RTA without the ability to upload a calibration file for the mic you're using? I would like to try it out for giggles..


----------



## Duckstu

I spent a good amount of time tuning the car last night.

Sometimes the DSP Pro gets a bit goofy and stops accepting changes. Like you'll adjust the Q and frequency of an EQ slider on channel C (left mid) and then do the same for channel D (right mid) and when you go back to channel C,... the changes have disappeared.

I did a lot of re-saving for a while and it got better.

A couple of things I think the unit needs,.... (Not sure Audiotec Fischer)

1. It would be nice if when you went to save you could either "Save",... or "Save As". Each time I want to save I have to type in a file name. Bit of a hassle.

2. There should be a global EQ. Once you have EQ'd each of the channels and then combined them,... you'd like to be able to EQ globally. So you'd want EQ's like the ones that are in each output channel,.. but in the input stream, and EQ'ing all input channels together.

3.What is frequency that the "Phase" slider is adjusting on the subwoofer channels? It doesn't say. Is it the 3db down-point or some fixed frequency?


----------



## thehatedguy

The phase is probably the crossover point for the sub.


----------



## bbfoto

*UPDATE !!!* 

Audiotec-Fischer has just posted *v3.04* Software for the Helix DSP PRO. Hopefully this has the "fixes" for what Erin had submitted + more. Note: Release date of v3.04 is January 13, 2015.

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH

Check it out and report back. 

Also, the HEC modules are listed as available on the web site (as previously mentioned), but no sign of the new "Director" remote yet.


----------



## bbfoto

AVIDEDTR said:


> Yup, can't fix version 2.80? I've reported 3 bugs and no responses? With the all post deploment RnD work we provide them, you would think they would at least acknowledge they are looking into the issues


They are probably not spending any time or energy to update the "older versions" of the SOFTWARE, but instead are putting that time and energy into releasing the new v3.xx Software for the previous/older units, which will hopefully include all of the bug fixes/address all of the error reports that you have submitted + more...at least I hope that is the case. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that it is terrible customer service to not at least acknowledge your emails with some sort of explanation and a "Thank You for your support".


----------



## bbfoto

Duckstu said:


> I spent a good amount of time tuning the car last night.
> 
> Sometimes the DSP Pro gets a bit goofy and stops accepting changes. Like you'll adjust the Q and frequency of an EQ slider on channel C (left mid) and then do the same for channel D (right mid) and when you go back to channel C,... the changes have disappeared.
> 
> I did a lot of re-saving for a while and it got better.
> 
> A couple of things I think the unit needs,.... (Not sure Audiotec Fischer)
> 
> 1. It would be nice if when you went to save you could either "Save",... or "Save As". Each time I want to save I have to type in a file name. Bit of a hassle.
> 
> 2. There should be a global EQ. Once you have EQ'd each of the channels and then combined them,... you'd like to be able to EQ globally. So you'd want EQ's like the ones that are in each output channel,.. but in the input stream, and EQ'ing all input channels together.


Try the new v3.04 Software (released today) and see if that addresses/fixes any of these issues. If not I would urge you to submit a formal request to Audiotec-Fischer.


----------



## ErinH

bbfoto said:


> *UPDATE !!!*
> 
> Audiotec-Fischer has just posted *v3.04* Software for the Helix DSP PRO. Hopefully this has the "fixes" for what Erin had submitted + more. Note: Release date of v3.04 is January 13, 2015.
> 
> PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> Check it out and report back.
> 
> Also, the HEC modules are listed as available on the web site (as previously mentioned), but no sign of the new "Director" remote yet.



yep. it took care of the differential signal issue on the matrix menu. 


just shot them another email about something else I'd be happy if they'd do. will update if they say they can/will.


----------



## thehatedguy

Wanting them to give you a l-r option on an output?


----------



## ErinH

it does now. that was what I sent the email about originally; it went on the fritz when you flipped the polarity on the digital mixer. but it's fixed now... I'll have to test it in the car but on the bench it works.


my other suggestion was to open up the frequencies for the high/low shelf. They only call it a shelf filter in the settings, and there are only two places you can use it: the very low end (25hz) and the very high end (20khz). If you are the low end it's a low-shelf. If you're at the high end it's a high-shelf. There are ranges you can use these in. For example the low-shelf will range up to 150hz where the high-shelf can extend to 199hz. I'd like them to allow you to choose any frequency you want on the slider so, for example, I can put a low-shelf at 10khz rather than being limited to the 150hz.

I just sent the email saying pretty much that. Hoping there's something they can do.


----------



## thehatedguy

That's neat that it does l-r.

I might have to get one of those when I get monies...though I could do it on a symbilink cable.


----------



## ErinH

the cool part is you can matrix it in increments as well. ie; 0.7*L - 0.3*R.


----------



## Duckstu

ErinH said:


> the cool part is you can matrix it in increments as well. ie; 0.7*L - 0.3*R.



What is this matrix you speak of? Is it the time alignment off-set graph thing? Or something else?
.


----------



## Jcharger13

He is speaking of where you do your channel input setup. You can do l-R, 50 percent of each left & right. -30 percent of left +70 right or any other percentages (20/-80, 40/60, etc). It will let you tweak for rear fill. Pretty cool. 

I wish the DSPPRO would give a little more time alignment capabilities as from what I read around 20ms is the sweet spot. I though about looping an output back to an input to add more delay since I'd only be using 9 channels total with rear fill. Only problem with that is I'd only have either l-R or r-l. Not both. Don't know if that's ok, would you need L-R for left rear and R-L for the right? I may be overcomlicating it though. To cold for me to mess with right now anyways.

Thanks Erin for reporting the digital issue to Helix.


----------



## Duckstu

Jcharger13 said:


> He is speaking of where you do your channel input setup. You can do l-R, 50 percent of each left & right. -30 percent of left +70 right or any other percentages (20/-80, 40/60, etc). It will let you tweak for rear fill. Pretty cool.
> 
> I wish the DSPPRO would give a little more time alignment capabilities as from what I read around 20ms is the sweet spot. I though about looping an output back to an input to add more delay since I'd only be using 9 channels total with rear fill. Only problem with that is I'd only have either l-R or r-l. Not both. Don't know if that's ok, would you need L-R for left rear and R-L for the right? I may be overcomlicating it though. To cold for me to mess with right now anyways.
> 
> Thanks Erin for reporting the digital issue to Helix.


20 ms = 22.5 feet. How big is your car? (Please tell me you have a Canyonarrow. That would be so cool LOL).

None of mine are over 2,... except for the sub, which sounds best at 270 deg phase, and a time delay of 7ms or so. 
.


----------



## BlackHHR

Duckstu said:


> What is this matrix you speak of? Is it the time alignment off-set graph thing? Or something else?
> .


The matrix is the Input/output configuration widget. "Flexible Audio Routing Matrix" is what is on the screen if I am not mistaken.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Can anyone explain why Front L/R Low on the I/O only support phase of 0 or 180.

Front L/R High, Mid and Sub 1-4 all have 11.25 thru 348.75 phase control


----------



## ErinH

just change it to 'mid' and carry on.


----------



## ErinH

ErinH said:


> my other suggestion was to open up the frequencies for the high/low shelf.



So, I got some feedback on this rather quickly and wanted to share. 

My original email:


Erin said:


> Hello,
> I see you have provided a new update, which has corrected the issue I was having. Thank you!
> 
> Another item that I'd like to ask about is the "shelf" filter. As it is, you can only enable this from either far frequency band (the 25hz or 20khz markers). And the shelf filter is only a low shelf on the low end and a high shelf on the high end.
> 
> I'd like to use a low-shelf at ~10khz, but I can only do a high-shelf here because the low-shelf value only extends to 150hz. Also, the high-shelf based at 20khz only extends to 199hz. Is there a way to enable the user to pick any frequency for the the low/high shelf bands?
> 
> Many times there are baffle step influences with tweeters or mids located near a surface where a frequency above a certain point is reflected back but below this the wavelength is too long to be reflected fully. A low-shelf at a high value would allow one to help flatten that response out.
> Another example is with a horn where they inherently are horn-loaded, with a higher SPL in the lower-to-upper midrange and a lesser output beyond something like 10khz. A low-shelf would enable the user to lower the output below this 10khz, better matching the response above 10khz in amplitude to the response below that frequency.
> 
> I am a HUGE fan of your product. Please don't take my suggestions as being rude. They are just things that I feel would go toward providing the end user with even more flexibility.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Erin




Initial reply back this morning:


AudioTec Fischer said:


> Hi Erin,
> 
> many thanks for your feedback - the software of course would allow to change the maximum frequency settings for the high- and low-shelf filters, but we decided on purpose that overlapping filters aren't possible.
> Nevertheless based on your feedback we will discuss this internally once again.
> I will let you know the outcome asap.
> 
> Regards,
> Robin
> 
> 
> Robin Krichel
> 
> Technical Director
> AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg



And about an hour after that, I got this:


AudioTec Fischer said:


> Good news, Erin!
> We just decided to change the shelf filters according to your proposal with the next software release!
> 
> Regards,
> Robin
> 
> Robin Krichel
> 
> Technical Director
> AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
> Hünegräben 26
> D-57392 Schmallenberg





I'm looking forward to this update. I already have a use for a 10khz low shelf so I'm glad they were receptive to the idea and are putting this capability in.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> So, I got some feedback on this rather quickly and wanted to share.
> 
> My original email:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Initial reply back this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> And about an hour after that, I got this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to this update. I already have a use for a 10khz low shelf so I'm glad they were receptive to the idea and are putting this capability in.


Erin for President!


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> just change it to 'mid' and carry on.


Ef that. Sub1 Sub 2 Sub 3 Sub 4. Can never have enough subs!


----------



## Jcharger13

Duckstu said:


> 20 ms = 22.5 feet. How big is your car? (Please tell me you have a Canyonarrow. That would be so cool LOL).
> 
> None of mine are over 2,... except for the sub, which sounds best at 270 deg phase, and a time delay of 7ms or so.
> .


Have you ever read about rear fill? If you haven't you should. It's pretty interesting. Nothing to do with the length of my car. Lol 

Here is an article about using rear fill correctly. It explains a left minus right signal and delaying further than the HAAS effect.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...n/22523-hey-werewolf-confusion-about-l-r.html

Here is a small excerpt from the linked thread that was written by a former very knowledgeable member. 

yes, the oldest version is known as the "Hafler Matrix" ... Hafler simply connected a single rear speaker across the L+/R+ stereo outputs, with a pad for attenuation.

But we can do better, by not only forming an actively attenuated L-R, but also bandlimiting (like Dolby), and perhaps most importantly ... adding delay to, or beyond, the precedence (Haas) effect (in the vicinity of 20msec). Remember the goal of clever rear fill is NOT to help the back seat passengers, and NOT to "fill the cabin with music" in a way that detracts or smears the front stage, but rather to give the illusion of listening in a larger acoustic space. Proper delay will enhance, not detract from, the front stage.


----------



## Duckstu

Jcharger13 said:


> Have you ever read about rear fill? If you haven't you should. It's pretty interesting. Nothing to do with the length of my car. Lol
> 
> Here is an article about using rear fill correctly.



Ahhh,.. I see.

The JBL MS-8 I have does this when it's in Logic-7 mode.

I use my rears differently. I find that most car doors won't handle the amount of mid-bass I need. Sure I can put 150 watts a side in there at 90 hz and up,... but the doors will buzz something terrible. Even with 20 lbs of dampening material in there, they still buzz. Air blasting up past the seal between where the inner door panel and the glass meet, etc.

So I use my rear door speakers to augment the fronts. Ones without tweeters (in my case, some 6.5" Boston Acoustic mid-bass drivers out of an old component set). I cross them in front from 100 hz up to the tweeters,.. but in back i run them from 110 or 120 hz up to 500, and then shallowly rolled off above that (perhaps 6 or 12 db). (Most rear car doors can't handle as much mid-bass as the front doors can). When combined with the fronts,... neither the front or rear have to be pushed so hard.

Definitely leans a little more towards the "car full of sound" style,.. but with no tweeters in the back and the tops rolled off early and gradually,.. you really don't notice they're there. Just a lot more impact in the lower mid-bass region.
.


----------



## lizardking

I emailed Helix to see if its possible to upload a cal file for microphones using their RTA software.


----------



## subterFUSE

lizardking said:


> I emailed Helix to see if its possible to upload a cal file for microphones using their RTA software.



Good thinking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lizardking

Here is the response from Helix if you want to use your own $50 microphone. Basically, we want you to buy our $400 microphone. I tried....


"The integrated RTA software is specifically designed to be used with the Helix MTK1 tuning microphone and that is what it is pre-calibrated to. While you can use another type of microphone and USB interface, Audiotec-Fischer did not write the software to be able to load a secondary calibration file for a different microphone as it was written and calibrated specifically for theirs. We would suggest checking with your local dealer regarding the availability of the MTK1 tuning kit".


----------



## Babs

Solution to that little problem.. Room EQ Wizard


----------



## lizardking

Babs said:


> Solution to that little problem.. Room EQ Wizard


Agree, but for what we pay for these. It would be neat to see the Helix RTA work accurately.


----------



## Babs

Agreed.. 
I wonder how far off it'd be with my Dayton UMM-6 vs the Helix "special" mic.
Once I get off my duff and get some actual REW charts done, it'd be good to compare a REW graph to my non-Pro DSP.


----------



## lizardking

Babs said:


> Agreed..
> I wonder how far off it'd be with my Dayton UMM-6 vs the Helix "special" mic.
> Once I get off my duff and get some actual REW charts done, it'd be good to compare a REW graph to my non-Pro DSP.


That would be nice. Maybe we can see what difference if any there is.


----------



## bradknob

I may be taking a few measurements tonight. I have the umm-6. I'll take measurements in REW and in the helix rta and compare the 2 and see how close the responses are.


----------



## Duckstu

Hmmm,.. there's a local dealer to me that has tuned three DSP's (no DSP Pros). I wonder if they have a Helix mic?

I have a UUM-6 and a Behringer. It would be cool to do a comparo of all three.
.


----------



## Babs

Duckstu said:


> Hmmm,.. there's a local dealer to me that has tuned three DSP's (no DSP Pros). I wonder if they have a Helix mic?
> 
> I have a UUM-6 and a Behringer. It would be cool to do a comparo of all three.
> .



Now yer talkin


----------



## bradknob

Well....
Subs turned off



Left...



Both...



Right...



Looks like I'll be sticking to REW



Now that I look at it again, I think I need to mess with the settings in the helix rta. Looks Like it was cut off above 6k. I'll try again


----------



## lizardking

Not very encouraging...


----------



## lizardking

I would also get the SPL set in the green. If you try again.


----------



## gsrdude

Here is a photo I took of the new Director remote at CES. It will have 20 presets plus the 2 that can be stored in the dsp, for a total of 22. This unit was a sample, a working sample, but the finished product may look slightly different. (Hand provided by Julian Fischer)


----------



## subterFUSE

When?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jdigital

lizardking said:


> Here is the response from Helix if you want to use your own $50 microphone. Basically, we want you to buy our $400 microphone. I tried....
> 
> 
> "The integrated RTA software is specifically designed to be used with the Helix MTK1 tuning microphone and that is what it is pre-calibrated to. While you can use another type of microphone and USB interface, Audiotec-Fischer did not write the software to be able to load a secondary calibration file for a different microphone as it was written and calibrated specifically for theirs. We would suggest checking with your local dealer regarding the availability of the MTK1 tuning kit".


The mtk1 kit consists of a superlux ecm999 mic and a t.bone micplug usb preamp. These can be had for a total of $80 (that includes shipping). The tuning kit from helix includes an additional mic cable and USB key (and cost an extra $300 for these 2 additional items). The USB key has the freely available dsp software and pink noise in wav and MP3. 

The ecm8000 is a fine calibration mic between 30hz-2k after that it's all over the place and you would need a cal file if you hoped to make accurate measurements. Using a generic cal file would not help because of the variances across mics. So when helix says the software is specifically calibrated for their tuning kit they are,
- making up stories to make you feel good about paying $300 extra for a cable and a thumb drive.
Or
- they actually hard coded a generic cal file for one specific microphone which would not work for every other mic of the same model and result in inaccurate measurements rather than give the user the ability to upload microphone specific calibration files.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

gsrdude said:


> Here is a photo I took of the new Director remote at CES. It will have 20 presets plus the 2 that can be stored in the dsp, for a total of 22. This unit was a sample, a working sample, but the finished product may look slightly different. (Hand provided by Julian Fischer)



Did they give a model number?


----------



## Jcharger13

I'm a little afraid to see the price tag. They're charging $400 for a measurement mic, It wouldn't be surprising if the director remote is $500.


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## lizardking

Looks big too. Not at all interesting...


----------



## gsrdude

lizardking said:


> Looks big too. Not at all interesting...


It's roughly 2"x5", it has a touch screen for selecting knob function. I was told it will retail for about $250. I was told Feb or Mar. It's smaller than it looks in the photo.


----------



## lizardking

gsrdude said:


> It's roughly 2"x5", it has a touch screen for selecting knob function. I was told it will retail for about $250. I was told Feb or Mar. It's smaller than it looks in the photo.


Shouldn't be much bigger than the screen to make it easier and cleaner looking for an integrated install. Price isn't too bad, should be able to get it $150-$175 from a dealer.


----------



## charliekwin

Hope they dress it up a little for the production unit, including the UI. Interface looks like their DSP software...not sure that's a great choice.


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## Jcharger13

lizardking said:


> Shouldn't be much bigger than the screen to make it easier and cleaner looking for an integrated install. Price isn't too bad, should be able to get it $150-$175 from a dealer.


That's much better than I figured. Not a bad price. Size isn't a killer but is a little on the large size. I'll be interested to see what all can be adjusted with it.


----------



## bbfoto

gsrdude said:


> Here is a photo I took of the new Director remote at CES. It will have 20 presets plus the 2 that can be stored in the dsp, for a total of 22. This unit was a sample, a working sample, but the finished product may look slightly different. (Hand provided by Julian Fischer)



Thanks for that photo and welcome to DIYMA!

I have a few questions (for anyone that can answer them):

1. Is this a Single DIN size unit? Dimensions if not?...

2. How thick is it?

3. What options have they provided for mounting it? Will it be a "Quick-Release"/detachable faceplate unit?

4. Is there any way that you could tell if that display is viewable in direct sunlight???

5. I wasn't expecting to have any actual DSP tuning/adjustment capabilities from the Director Remote, but are there any? What I'm getting at is...I'll assume for the moment that this will cost at least as much as an Alpine RUX-C800, but will have WAY LESS functionality.

6. Is the main knob a "rotary commander"? IOW, do you Press/Click it to select a specific function, such as Master Volume or Subwoofer Level, and then rotate the knob left or right to adjust that parameter? Or is it a combination of using the Touchscreen to select a function, and turn the knob to adjust? 


Other observations:

1. There is plenty of room on the right of the unit to add another "knob". I would prefer this rather than having to dive into a Menu for additional settings. For instance, in "normal mode" the Left Knob could be Master Volume, and the Right Knob would be Subwoofer Level. Press/Click the Left Knob for Source Selection, and Press/Click the Right Knob for Memory Presets. A "Long-Press" of each knob (if there were two) could add an additional 2 functions, etc.

2. The Text Labels on the Display are TINY! What point-size is that font?...looks like 6-pt or smaller. That will NOT be clearly ledgible at any distance, especially in a vehicle. I would also prefer simple Black Text on a White Background, or the inverse for "Night Mode". The Higher the Contrast, the easier it will be to read. Maybe use colored boarders to denote the specific functions. 

3. Don't get me wrong, I love physical knobs especially for controlling Master & Subwoofer Levels for digital inputs, but why not develop iOS & Android apps that connect via Bluetooth along with a simpler & smaller "Director" remote? The remote that is INCLUDED with the RF 3Sixty.3 at no extra charge is completely adequate, and it's tiny which makes mounting it much easier. It doesn't need a display because it is simple and intuitive. I don't need to take my eyes from the road to make adjustments. Besides the Bluetooth setup and more presets, it doesn't look like the Director Remote does any more than the 3Sixty.3 remote.

I can't imagine that there are many of us here that would use this type of processor/technology and do not also own a Smartphone with at least a 3.5" touchscreen? Most of us will already have a smartphone or tablet mount in the vehicle, and might not want to clutter our beautiful dash/console with another large unit. Now if you can fully tune/make all adustments from the Director Remote, then Yes, I'm all for a full DIN-size unit, but with a larger screen/less unused space! Bring it!

Just my ramblings...moving on.

EDIT: I didn't see the previous posts regarding price and dimensions before I posted. I would still like to know the thickness. Is $250 a confirmed MSRP/MAP?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

such a waste of space for the logo.
it's proto so it might change. Logo should be on the case.
6pt more like 4pt ;-)


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## teldzc1

Looks better than I thought. Especially compared to the current one. Any word on compatibility with the non pro? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## ndm

gsrdude said:


> Here is a photo I took of the new Director remote at CES. It will have 20 presets plus the 2 that can be stored in the dsp, for a total of 22. This unit was a sample, a working sample, but the finished product may look slightly different. (Hand provided by Julian Fischer)












If they simply make it look like this...then it will be nice. otherwise it looks like something a guy would make for his first dash project and sprayed it with SEM texture.

Needs more display and less bezel. It would not be a deal breaker for me since I know how to make a plain looking bezel like that look good, but for a guy without fab skills, they need to make it a little fancier.

They also need to do it in a hurry. I am waiting for the controller to come out so I can buy my dsp pro. I will not buy it before the controller is available. I would hate to have a controller debacle like Arc audio still has.

EDIT....for the record, I have no problem with the actual screen other that its a little small, I just think the empty reale state on either side looks....meh


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## bbfoto

Regarding the size of the Touchscreen...just look at the size of Julian's fingertips in relation to the display...and the Text Label size and/or "button" size. Does anybody think that is usable? The "buttons" are very close together as well.

Definitely not easily usuable while in a moving vehicle. Just suppose that you simply want to change Sources while driving...that's usually easy with most OEM Head Unit controls especially if you have SWC's, but it doesn't look like it would be too easy here if you have to tap the touchscreen.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

Just to clarify a few things here ..

The picture above is in an ABS case and not to final spec.
Final sizing should be single din, in aluminum chassis.
The touchscreen is not at all difficult to function.
The knob can be adjusted to be on either side (via settings to flip the view).
The units Are already made and functioning, it is the machining of the chassis that is holding up delivery.


----------



## bbfoto

6spdcoupe said:


> Just to clarify a few things here ..
> 
> The picture above is in an ABS case and not to final spec.
> Final sizing should be single din, in aluminum chassis.
> The touchscreen is not at all difficult to function.
> The knob can be adjusted to be on either side (via settings to flip the view).
> The units Are already made and functioning, it is the machining of the chassis that is holding up delivery.


Thanks, Don! Good information to know.

The Single-DIN size seems most logical, but that also means that there will be even more "empty" space on the front surface as compared to the photo of the unit that Julian is holding at CES (supposedly 2" x 5"), which seems odd to me (assuming that the screen size doesn't change).

I can also see where others might want a smaller overall footprint which would vastly increase the available mounting options...ashtrays, coin holder trays, switch panel blanks, etc.

Again, if it's going to be a full Single-DIN unit, I'd much rather have TWO KNOBS (one on each side of the screen for increased functionality & also Symmetry) with tactile "Push/Click & Turn" functionality, and with a larger information-only display, not a small Touchscreen. I have the iBasso DX90 PMP which has what looks to be an identically-sized Touchscreen (same horrible, tiny font, in fact) and IMO it is barely usable, and that is a handheld device about the size of an iPod Classic. I couldn't imagine trying to use it in a car. Maybe it's just me, LOL.

When you say, "The touchscreen is not at all difficult to function", is this from personal experience with an actual unit installed in your car?...and switching sources or other functions while Driving?

Is the Display Viewable in full sunlight?

Do you know what the mounting options will be?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

bbfoto said:


> Thanks, Don! Good information to know.
> 
> The Single-DIN size seems most logical, but that also means that there will be even more "empty" space on the front surface, which seems odd to me (assuming that the screen size doesn't change). Again, I'd much rather have TWO KNOBS (one on each side of the screen for increased functionality & also Symmetry) with tactile "Press & Turn" functionality, and with just an informational display, not a tiny Touchscreen.
> 
> When you say, "The touchscreen is not at all difficult to function", is this from personal experience with an actual unit installed in your car?...and switching sources or other functions while Driving?
> 
> Do you know what the mounting options will be?


 The unit itself is a pretty powerful piece, so I would not dismiss the chance of more functionality in the future. As for a second knob, not so likely. 

Not in my car, just from 'playing' with it for a few days. I still find it easier than a single din memory preset or the unfortunate events to go through for functionality of most single din decks- function> menu> audio> left right left right up down up down a b a b ..


----------



## bbfoto

6spdcoupe said:


> The unit itself is a pretty powerful piece, so I would not dismiss the chance of more functionality in the future. As for a second knob, not so likely.
> 
> Not in my car, just from 'playing' with it for a few days. I still find it easier than a single din memory preset or the unfortunate events to go through for functionality of most single din decks- function> menu> audio> left right left right up down up down a b a b ..


Cool. Thanks for the info!

One other question (in addition to my edited post above, LOL)...

Will the Director Remote save or retain all of its 20 internally-stored presets even if 12v power is removed from it?

And on second thought, I think that I would actually prefer to have a Single-DIN unit that is just an edge-to-edge Display (i.e. full 2"x7" information-only screen), with a candy-bar IR remote control similar to the Pioneer Premier DEX/DEQ-P9 remote + add the rotary dial from the P99RS remote, for full processor control without the need for a computer.  I can dream, right?  EDIT: Well, maybe have just one small knob on the bezel that would function as Master Volume Control, which would also function as a Subwoofer Level Control if momentarily Pushed and then Rotated, and/or a MUTE function.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

bbfoto said:


> Cool. Thanks for the info!
> 
> One other question (in addition to my edited post above, LOL)...
> 
> Will the Director Remote save or retain all of its 20 internally-stored presets even if 12v power is removed from it?
> 
> And on second thought, I think that I would actually prefer to have a Single-DIN unit that is just an edge-to-edge (i.e. full 2"x7") information-only DISPLAY, with a candy-bar IR remote control similar to the Pioneer Premier DEX/DEQ-P9 remote, for full processor control without the need for a computer.  I can dream, right?


 No problem at all !  

Yes, it will, as far as I recall. 

I would be dreaming the same thing !


----------



## subterFUSE

Single DIN is far too large. That's going to really cause me trouble because I want to mount it in my ashtray where my BitOne DRC was located. I don't have anywhere else to put something that large. Very disappointing.

I guess I will just have to build a custom volume control with an ALPS pot? Or stick with the wired Helix remote I got temporarily. At least that has a button to switch inputs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> Single DIN is far too large. That's going to really cause me trouble because I want to mount it in my ashtray where my BitOne DRC was located. I don't have anywhere else to put something that large. Very disappointing.
> 
> I guess I will just have to build a custom volume control with an ALPS pot?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Post a photo of your dash and I will show you a spot. 
You will make it happen. 

although I agree that ash tray size it a more ideal size.


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> Post a photo of your dash and I will show you a spot.
> 
> You will make it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> although I agree that ash tray size it a more ideal size.



No good options without serious mods.

I might have to visit a junk yard to see if I can buy a replacement center arm rest. Then I could cut it and flush the controller there.











Here's the original DRC in the ashtray.
There might be enough room to get the Director in there but the Radar and Laser controls would definitely have to go elsewhere.












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> No good options without serious mods.
> 
> I might have to visit a junk yard to see if I can buy a replacement center arm rest. Then I could cut it and flush the controller there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the original DRC in the ashtray.
> There might be enough room to get the Director in there but the Radar and Laser controls would definitely have to go elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dont forget to look up!!


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> Don't forget to look up!!



Not exactly the look or ergonomics I'm after with this vehicle. 

Plus there is already an overhead console with lights, microphones for bluetooth, sunroof controls, etc.....


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> Not exactly the look or ergonomics I'm after with this vehicle.


Yeah, That was back in 2007. I am just saying that you will find a way. I personally will install it as a semi permanent install if it looks good. if it is ugly then it will spend its time in a glove box or console.


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> Yeah, That was back in 2007. I am just saying that you will find a way. I personally will install it as a semi permanent install if it looks good. if it is ugly then it will spend its time in a glove box or console.


If it remains the size in the photo, I might be able to install it.

If it is a true single DIN, there is no way. I'll have to forget the controller completely. Might even need to ditch the DSP Pro for something else like a Mosconi.

I have the Helix URC 2A which will work, but good lord that thing is retarded looking. I only got it to be a temporary solution until the Director was available. If I'm forced to use that for the long term, another DSP might be a better solution.


----------



## bbfoto

subterFUSE said:


> If it remains the size in the photo, I might be able to install it.
> 
> If it is a true single DIN, there is no way. I'll have to forget the controller completely. Might even need to ditch the DSP Pro for something else like a Mosconi.
> 
> I have the Helix URC 2A which will work, but good lord that thing is retarded looking. I only got it to be a temporary solution until the Director was available. If I'm forced to use that for the long term, another DSP might be a better solution.


There is the possibility that you could still use the URC-2A, but take it apart and extend the wires of the 2 pots, the mode switch, and the status LED, and mount them individually wherever they might fit and be most ergonomic. Or make a new "faceplate" out of a simple sheet of brushed aluminum, or use any of the multitude of 3M textured vinyl wraps over a faceplate made out of ABS or acrylic/plexi sheet.

You could even go as far as having custom knobs machined for the pots that would match the others in your interior. Unfortunately, you would still be stuck with just the 2 presets. Personally, I would want AT LEAST 4 presets for it to be feasible, and I would prefer 8 out of the box, but I doubt that I would really make use of any more than that.

HOWEVER, I'm willing to bet that you will absolutely need the new Director Remote in order to use any of the HEC Expansion Modules for Apt-X Bluetooth Streaming, Additional Optical Input (total of 2), or analog AUX Input+Digital Output. 

In addition, with the inclusion of the Touchscreen in the new Director Remote, I bet that it would be a much more difficult task, or most likely impossible, to mod/separate in the same way as the URC-2A. 

I'm also very curious to see the quality of the Display, e.g. Horizontal & Vertical viewing angles, Resolution, and readability in Direct Sunlight. That touchscreen looks eerily similar to the one in my iBasso DX90 PMP...which is not so good.

Billy B. (always the Debbie downer!)


----------



## subterFUSE

Starting to think a Mosconi DSP is in my future.

I need 2 optical inputs, with the ability to switch between them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 6spdcoupe

bbfoto said:


> HOWEVER, I'm willing to bet that you will absolutely need the new Director Remote in order to use any of the HEC Expansion Modules for Apt-X Bluetooth Streaming, Additional Optical Input (total of 2), or AUX Input.


How much is the wager ? Should I send my Paypal address ?


----------



## bbfoto

subterFUSE said:


> Starting to think a Mosconi DSP is in my future.
> 
> I need 2 optical inputs, with the ability to switch between them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You could always use a separate, standalone Digital Toslink switch. I use the Audio Authorty one that I've linked-to below in an install with multiple Toslink & Coaxial digital sources connected to a RF 3Sixty.3's Toslink input. It will automatically switch to the active input, or you can manually switch them.

On the inexpensive one, you can use the cheesy IR remote to switch between the inputs, or open up the box and extend the wires from the internal physical push-button switch to go to an external momentary switch that you can place wherever you'd like. You just might have to be careful to lower the volume to avoid signal thumps or pops when changing sources (from when the digital data stream is interrupted)...some units address this, and some do not...look at the reviews for a particular unit before buying.

The inexpensive option:

Amazon.com: ViewHD SPDIF | TOSLINK Digital Optical Audio Switcher 3x1 with Remote (Three Inputs to One Output): Electronics

A higher-quality option that has both Toslink and Coaxial inputs & output:

Audio Authority® - Product Details: 1177A

The AA unit uses 12VDC power.  You can use a USB cig lighter/cell phone charger for the less expensive one (5VDC/500ma).





6spdcoupe said:


> How much is the wager ? Should I send my Paypal address ?


Don, I already have your PayPal addy and will offer up my whole 2¢! I'm very good at that! 

Care to offer some solid information regarding if the new Director Remote is needed or not in order to use any or all of the HEC's (how would you setup the BT pairing & connection otherwise?) AND regarding the screen quality questions I had as well???


----------



## 6spdcoupe

bbfoto said:


> Don, I already have your PayPal addy and will offer up my whole .02¢! I'm very good at that!
> 
> Care to offer some solid information regarding if the new Director Remote is needed or not in order to use any or all of the HEC's (how would you setup the BT pairing & connection otherwise?) AND regarding the screen quality questions I had as well???


 Well, hell, I'll take it ! This storm coming through is gonna cripple some work time, so every bit counts now ! lol 

It can be done via the status light on the DSP or (preferably) the ATF Tool.  

All I can really say is visually, the quality is good. Can't speak on behalf of sunlight yet though unfortunately.


----------



## subterFUSE

Might need to look into customizing the URC2A.

Are these still available for sale? I have one, but would not want to risk damaging it unless I had a backup.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

subterFUSE said:


> Might need to look into customizing the URC2A.
> 
> Are these still available for sale? I have one, but would not want to risk damaging it unless I had a backup.


Yes, they are still available.


----------



## subterFUSE

Single DIN size doesn't seem to make very much sense because "DIN" doesn't really exist anymore in modern cars. Especially German cars. Maybe in the 1990s that would have made more sense...


----------



## teldzc1

If anyone cares. I did message Helix on FB regarding backward compatibility of the Director. They said: 

"Hi David,
the remote will probably available in March and it will be compatible to all actual DSP products.

Best regards"


----------



## subterFUSE

teldzc1 said:


> If anyone cares. I did message Helix on FB regarding backward compatibility of the Director. They said:
> 
> "Hi David,
> the remote will probably available in March and it will be compatible to all actual DSP products.
> 
> Best regards"


Thanks for the update.


----------



## bbfoto

teldzc1 said:


> If anyone cares. I did message Helix on FB regarding backward compatibility of the Director. They said:
> 
> "Hi David,
> the remote will probably available in March and it will be compatible to all actual DSP products.
> 
> Best regards"


Cool. Thanks. I'm hoping that this will also enable you to have 20 additional Presets with the older/non-PRO units as well?


----------



## quality_sound

What could you possibly need 20+ presets for?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bradknob

Any of you all know anything about the HEC BT? The Bluetooth module. I'm wondering if you can tune with a tablet or something that's Bluetooth capable. Or is strictly for streaming music via Bluetooth


----------



## 6spdcoupe

bradknob said:


> Any of you all know anything about the HEC BT? The Bluetooth module. I'm wondering if you can tune with a tablet or something that's Bluetooth capable. Or is strictly for streaming music via Bluetooth


 It is only for music streaming.


----------



## bradknob

6spdcoupe said:


> It is only for music streaming.



Cool, thank u sir!


----------



## bbfoto

quality_sound said:


> What could you possibly need 20+ presets for?


LOL. You're right. I definitely do not need 20 presets. If you read my previous posts, I mentioned that 8 would be just about right for me (one of the processors that I'm currently using has 4 presets, and I always find myself wanting a few more). But, if I'm not mistaken, without the new Director remote, you would just have 2 presets available, which just doesn't cut it (for me).

Regarding the BT HEC module, Don already answered the question, but geewilleckers, it's 2015! I'm surprised by ze Germans.  IMO both iOS AND Android apps for full tuning/adjustments should be standard. RF did it with the old 3Sixty how long ago??? Now we have portable devices with much larger screens, and almost everyone owns a smartphone or tablet, so... I would gladly be willing to pay $50-$100 for this app if it allowed full tuning and actually worked.

I am however very pleased that someone finally up'ed the ante with a 24-bit/96k box and 10 channels! Mad props to ze Germans @ Audiotech-Fischer for that!


----------



## ndm

bbfoto said:


> LOL. You're right. I definitely do not need 20 presets. If you read my previous posts, I mentioned that 8 would be just about right for me (one of the processors that I'm currently using has 4 presets, and I always find myself wanting a few more). But, if I'm not mistaken, without the new Director remote, you would just have 2 presets available, which just doesn't cut it (for me).
> 
> Regarding the BT HEC module, Don already answered the question, but geewilleckers, it's 2015! I'm surprised by ze Germans.  IMO both iOS AND Android apps for full tuning/adjustments should be standard. RF did it with the old 3Sixty how long ago??? Now we have portable devices with much larger screens, and almost everyone owns a smartphone or tablet, so... I would gladly be willing to pay $50-$100 for this app if it allowed full tuning and actually worked.
> 
> I am however very pleased that someone finally up'ed the ante with a 24-bit/96k box and 10 channels! Mad props to ze Germans @ Audiotech-Fischer for that!


I am in for full tuning capability for Android!!


----------



## Guest

Would be nice


----------



## bradknob

Hell, I would have been happy with a device that can already run the software and be able to communicate with the DSP via BT. (Windows tablet). Wasn't getting my hopes up for an iOS or android platform just yet. Though it would be nice if they would hop on into 2015 with the rest of us.


----------



## jdigital

Agreed, something like the 'MOTU AVB Discovery' ipad app would be sweet. In that it's a native app specifically designed to wirelessly control an audio input/output/processing interface.


----------



## ErinH

for anyone curious about the size difference between the 'regular' helix DSP and the 'pro' version, I took a couple pictures of them together. Pro behind the regular version below. The pro is just a bit larger in length. Same height and same width.


----------



## sirbOOm

I hear the same all the time... epper:


----------



## teldzc1

Not sure if this was covered before but I asked Helix about how the volume was controlled when using the digital input. Here's the reply:

Hi David,

the volume control is done in the digital domain due to the fact that we have a huge bandwidth in our DSP processors.

Best regards

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## sirbOOm

Naturally a little "sales pitch" in the response. Ya know... due to the fact they "have a huge bandwidth". Tell ya what, I have the same issue.


----------



## teldzc1

Yeah a little salesey but I'll give the benefit of the doubt there. Of course I was hoping they'd say it was a microprocessor controlled analog volume control but I highly doubted that would be possible. Have to dig up some more info on how digital volume actually works. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## t3sn4f2

teldzc1 said:


> Yeah a little salesey but I'll give the benefit of the doubt there. Of course I was hoping they'd say it was a microprocessor controlled analog volume control but I highly doubted that would be possible. Have to dig up some more info on how digital volume actually works.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


It's possible, they just don't need to do it because of the 24 bit processing capability of the processor, and even more so now with the bump in sample rate processing from 48kHz to 96kHz. Once you get into 24 bit processing you won't have any degradation in dynamic range for any functional master volume range. It's only when you get into the very low volume settings like -60 or -70 that you begin to loose functional bit resolution. But in a car at that level it does not matter since the nominal signal level is below the systems noise floor (electrical and environmentally).

The Clarion DRZ did use analog volume control post DSP though. Here's the schematic for that one. 

(Side note: Notice how the DRZ uses the DAC built into the DSP for it's sub out and not the higher quality ones for the other channels. )










Here's a little more on the topic.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/79215-simple-digital-attenuation-question-lycan-anyone-can-answer.html


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## subterFUSE

It's 64 bit processing. 

24 bit is the max audio resolution supported.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## t3sn4f2

subterFUSE said:


> It's 64 bit processing.
> 
> 24 bit is the max audio resolution supported.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My bad, I meant having at least a 24bit digital path lets you have the needed resolution to have acceptable MVC. Regardless of processing bits.


----------



## teldzc1

Thanks for the responses guys. What you said make sense, although for some reason I didn't see it till today. I did contact Helix for some more clarity. I have to say the Helix guys are incredibly responsive. If you ping them on Facebook Messenger they respond next day. Really great.

Essentially the echoed what you said regarding the digital volume control. I also asked some further questions about the digital path as well. I'll paraphrase the outcomes below. I think this stuff might already be known but I'll just put it here anyway:

DSP Pro:
64 bit DSP Processor
Digital Volume Control handled by the DSP Processor, not in the DAC
All Digital Signals are UP or Downsampled to 24bit / 96khz
Optical SPDIF capable of receiving up to 24/96
Coax capable of receiving 24/192

DSP:
56bit DSP Processor
Digital Volume Control handled by the DSP Processor, not in the DAC
All Digital Signals are UP or Downsampled to 24bit / 48khz
Optical SPDIF capable of receiving up to 24/96


Also, here's a link to a very easy guide on how digital volume controls work. This really helped me in understanding.

http://www.esstech.com/PDF/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf


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## subterFUSE

teldzc1 said:


> Thanks for the responses guys. What you said make sense, although for some reason I didn't see it till today. I did contact Helix for some more clarity. I have to say the Helix guys are incredibly responsive. If you ping them on Facebook Messenger they respond next day. Really great.
> 
> Essentially the echoed what you said regarding the digital volume control. I also asked some further questions about the digital path as well. I'll paraphrase the outcomes below. I think this stuff might already be known but I'll just put it here anyway:
> 
> DSP Pro:
> 64 bit DSP Processor
> Digital Volume Control handled by the DSP Processor, not in the DAC
> All Digital Signals are UP or Downsampled to 24bit / 96khz
> Optical SPDIF capable of receiving up to 24/96
> Coax capable of receiving 24/192
> 
> DSP:
> 56bit DSP Processor
> Digital Volume Control handled by the DSP Processor, not in the DAC
> All Digital Signals are UP or Downsampled to 24bit / 48khz
> Optical SPDIF capable of receiving up to 24/96
> 
> 
> Also, here's a link to a very easy guide on how digital volume controls work. This really helped me in understanding.
> 
> http://www.esstech.com/PDF/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf


Thanks for the info.

We have still not setup my DSP Pro yet because I'm waiting for the HEC module for 2 Optical inputs to arrive today or tomorrow. It was shipped by 2-Day Air.

Both of my digital sources have their own volume controls:
MoBridge DA1 volume is controlled by the car's OEM volume knob.
Audison BitPlay HD has wireless remote controls for volume.

My plan is to o-scope the digital volumes using REW and my Behringer sound card with Optical Input. I realize that these digital sources should theoretically not clip, but I'm going to test them anyway. Once I scope the sources, I will know exactly where to set the source volume and then I'll leave them alone and use the DSP's volume controller as my master volume.

For now I just have the URC-2A, but hopefully upgrading to the Director when it is available.


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## teldzc1

never mind I re-read your post.


----------



## subterFUSE

teldzc1 said:


> never mind I re-read your post.


No worries.

I'm just going to test them anyway, to be safe. But my guess is that I'll be pushing the source unit volumes to max and run them into the DSP to get the best S/N. I'm still curious about how the Audi MMI and the MoBridge will work together, however. I'm going to try both a 16 bit and 24 bit sine wave to see what happens.


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## nanohead

teldzc1 said:


> DSP Pro:
> 64 bit DSP Processor
> Digital Volume Control handled by the DSP Processor, not in the DAC
> All Digital Signals are UP or Downsampled to 24bit / 96khz
> Optical SPDIF capable of receiving up to 24/96
> Coax capable of receiving 24/192


I wish I could get my music to sample this much! While the specwhore part of my brain is craving this thing, I wonder if my ears would be able to tell the difference. The Coax is particularly attractive from a bandwidth standpoint, if I could find a source that could produce it.

I've been moving most of my good music to FLAC (either re-ripping or buying outright in FLAC), so the resolution is improving on music.


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## jdigital

Brax said:


> The next update of the DSP PC-Tool will have the capability to add a calibration file for the RTA.


:thumbsup:


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## subterFUSE

So that would allow us to use our own mics with cal files?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> No worries.
> 
> I'm just going to test them anyway, to be safe. But my guess is that I'll be pushing the source unit volumes to max and run them into the DSP to get the best S/N. I'm still curious about how the Audi MMI and the MoBridge will work together, however. I'm going to try both a 16 bit and 24 bit sine wave to see what happens.



Soooo....

Guys/Gals that are currently using the Helix dsp pro...

Before I go and put my 6to8v8 up for sale, Are you guys having any issues at all with the helix? I am pretty much ready to pull the trigger but I wane to make sure I am not trading great equipment for equipment with bugs and issues. I really want those extra channels and flexibility but I will be giving up a great piece of equipment that works exactly as it should. I mean I will really miss the bluetooth tuning features of the 6to8v8 and the app to control the volume but I think that having the built in toslink and the 2 extra channels that I would need to run a three way with rears and a sub.

So, tell me is it worth it?

I literally have the photo's ready to post my 6to8v8 up for sale waiting for your responses.


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## gregerst22

ndm said:


> Soooo....
> 
> Guys/Gals that are currently using the Helix dsp pro...
> 
> Before I go and put my 6to8v8 up for sale, Are you guys having any issues at all with the helix? I am pretty much ready to pull the trigger but I wane to make sure I am not trading great equipment for equipment with bugs and issues. I really want those extra channels and flexibility but I will be giving up a great piece of equipment that works exactly as it should. I mean I will really miss the bluetooth tuning features of the 6to8v8 and the app to control the volume but I think that having the built in toslink and the 2 extra channels that I would need to run a three way with rears and a sub.
> 
> So, tell me is it worth it?
> 
> I literally have the photo's ready to post my 6to8v8 up for sale waiting for your responses.


I'm curious about the stability of this unit as well.


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## teldzc1

I would say that given how new the unit is, you won't get a full picture of the long term stability. But given the stability of the non Pro DSP, I don't think there's a reason to worry. Additionally, the support from Helix as well as the frequent firmware updates gives me reason to believe that there isn't anything to worry about.


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## ndm

teldzc1 said:


> I would say that given how new the unit is, you won't get a full picture of the long term stability. But given the stability of the non Pro DSP, I don't think there's a reason to worry. Additionally, the support from Helix as well as the frequent firmware updates gives me reason to believe that there isn't anything to worry about.


Well since I just sent a payment for my DSP Pro and I just received a payment for my Mosconi unit it may be too late. But I was just looking for anyone that has one and is having any sort of issues right now. 

I guess I will figure out the issues when mine comes in the mail.

I will be greatly looking forward to the extra channels and having the option to do optical if I want but again I will greatly miss the phone app. I used that thing all the time. Having to hook up via usb is fine but the app was great to have. I sure hope that the director becomes available soon!

Also I think the ability to use my current mic with the dsp will be an added bonus once it is available.


On a side note, I wonder if we request an app would they develope one? They seem to be very responsive to their customers.

I am excited to no longer have the muting feature built into the dsp too. While it is a neat feature, I think it is just not my cup o tea.


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## gregerst22

teldzc1 said:


> I would say that given how new the unit is, you won't get a full picture of the long term stability. But given the stability of the non Pro DSP, I don't think there's a reason to worry. Additionally, the support from Helix as well as the frequent firmware updates gives me reason to believe that there isn't anything to worry about.


On the other hand frequent firmware updates can be a sign that there are many bugs and enhancements needed. This is not uncommon for a lot of complicated electronic products these days. 
A manufacturer will get the product to what they feel is a good enough level and then release it to market so they can start generating revenue while continually working on the known bugs and enhancements. The trick is knowing what good enough is and managing the updates. Put out a product with too many bugs and it can backfire on you as people avoid the product. Hold it back too long so you can get the product close to perfect before releasing it and you may lose a lot of potential revenue and let competitors get ahead.
I'm not saying this is the case with the Helix pro but just my experience in dealing with hardware / software for the last 15+ years in the IT industry.


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## subterFUSE

My DSP Pro is installed, but I have not had the time to start the setup yet or anything. One thing I did find out is that we tried to use a USB extension cable to the front of the car and it won't work. I can only get the computer to connect if I use a single USB cable with no extensions or adapters. Keep this in mind if you plan to try a USB port in the car for easy tuning connection.

It might be that I have the wrong type of cable? Not sure yet because I have not tested it yet to be certain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE

I am surprised no one has developed an iPad app for tuning yet. Seems to me this would be a huge feature that might attract a lot of interest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## gregerst22

I think it comes down to cost and ROI. Software development doesn't come cheap. But I would love to have an iPad app for tuning as long as it was done well. I bought a cheap windows laptop, Asus X205ta, from staples for a $150 just to tune with.


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## gregerst22

subterFUSE said:


> My DSP Pro is installed, but I have not had the time to start the setup yet or anything. One thing I did find out is that we tried to use a USB extension cable to the front of the car and it won't work. I can only get the computer to connect if I use a single USB cable with no extensions or adapters. Keep this in mind if you plan to try a USB port in the car for easy tuning connection.
> 
> It might be that I have the wrong type of cable? Not sure yet because I have not tested it yet to be certain.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm using a Active USB extension cable with my Helix non-pro. Active extension cables have a built in signal booster. This may be what you need.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Could a possible solution to using an IPAD be to use an App for your IPAD that may allow you to connect to the DSP via the Helix Bluetooth Module?

It would be a hit or miss, but If the APP allowed you to assign a few different things. Could that be a possible solution?


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## Tsmith

I am using a long usb cable that is run to the front of my vehicle with the DSP Pro. I have not had any problems using it. It is not active, just a long usb cable.


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## ndm

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Could a possible solution to using an IPAD be to use an App for your IPAD that may allow you to connect to the DSP via the Helix Bluetooth Module?
> 
> It would be a hit or miss, but If the APP allowed you to assign a few different things. Could that be a possible solution?


A better solution would be to forget the IPAD owners and worry about us android folks. 

If we had this.....OMG that would be so awesome. I really loved being in the house doing tuning stuff while my Jeep was in the frigid garage. This is one major awesome selling point for the Mosconi. Even if the app only allows you to select from 4 presets and control the volume and sub. It it still a great and useful feature that the 6to8 has.


----------



## WeDgE

I just sent an email off to Helix, but I'm hoping someone here has a solution for my problem:

I'm having major issues with connecting my DSP Pro to my laptop for the initial setup after first installing it.

1) I've had to try 2 different USB cables to connect to the DSP Pro, ~50% of the time the software says "Start Demo" instead of "Connect". The cable included with the unit only worked once and the update stalled at 6%.

2) I've only been able to get to the "Update 1 or Update 2" screen 4 times. Once it stalled at 6%, twice at 95% and it only completed the update when I selected "Update 2"

3) After completing "Update 2", the software quit on it's own and I had to power everything down in order to connect to the DSP Pro again only to have this message pop-up: Device not Supported. The device you're trying to connect is not supported by version 3.0 yet. Please check further updates.

I'm using a Macbook Pro running Windows 7 via Parallels to connect. I hope this isn't the issue.


----------



## gregerst22

ndm said:


> A better solution would be to forget the IPAD owners and worry about us android folks.
> 
> If we had this.....OMG that would be so awesome. I really loved being in the house doing tuning stuff while my Jeep was in the frigid garage. This is one major awesome selling point for the Mosconi. Even if the app only allows you to select from 4 presets and control the volume and sub. It it still a great and useful feature that the 6to8 has.


You could still tune from inside the house using a really long active usb cable. 32ft or more. I know it's not as convenient as wireless but I wouldn't hold my breath for that feature anytime soon.


----------



## WeDgE

UPDATE:

I was able to connect to the DSP Pro using an older WinXP laptop...





WeDgE said:


> I just sent an email off to Helix, but I'm hoping someone here has a solution for my problem:
> 
> I'm having major issues with connecting my DSP Pro to my laptop for the initial setup after first installing it.
> 
> 1) I've had to try 2 different USB cables to connect to the DSP Pro, ~50% of the time the software says "Start Demo" instead of "Connect". The cable included with the unit only worked once and the update stalled at 6%.
> 
> 2) I've only been able to get to the "Update 1 or Update 2" screen 4 times. Once it stalled at 6%, twice at 95% and it only completed the update when I selected "Update 2"
> 
> 3) After completing "Update 2", the software quit on it's own and I had to power everything down in order to connect to the DSP Pro again only to have this message pop-up: Device not Supported. The device you're trying to connect is not supported by version 3.0 yet. Please check further updates.
> 
> I'm using a Macbook Pro running Windows 7 via Parallels to connect. I hope this isn't the issue.


----------



## narvarr

WeDgE said:


> I just sent an email off to Helix, but I'm hoping someone here has a solution for my problem:
> 
> I'm having major issues with connecting my DSP Pro to my laptop for the initial setup after first installing it.
> 
> 1) I've had to try 2 different USB cables to connect to the DSP Pro, ~50% of the time the software says "Start Demo" instead of "Connect". The cable included with the unit only worked once and the update stalled at 6%.
> 
> 2) I've only been able to get to the "Update 1 or Update 2" screen 4 times. Once it stalled at 6%, twice at 95% and it only completed the update when I selected "Update 2"
> 
> 3) After completing "Update 2", the software quit on it's own and I had to power everything down in order to connect to the DSP Pro again only to have this message pop-up: Device not Supported. The device you're trying to connect is not supported by version 3.0 yet. Please check further updates.
> 
> I'm using a Macbook Pro running Windows 7 via Parallels to connect. I hope this isn't the issue.


Sounds to me like that is the issue. Seems like the USB protocol isn't reliable enough running in windows emulator mode.


----------



## narvarr

WeDgE said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I was able to connect to the DSP Pro using an older WinXP laptop. Was able to get sound but only through the left tweeter and midrange. Sound didn't change despite unassigning input signals or switching R/L inputs in the software.
> 
> I don't know what the hell is going on with this thing.


You may have to redo your updates. With it freezing up while updating, you may have corrupt files on the DSP.


----------



## WeDgE

narvarr said:


> You may have to redo your updates. With it freezing up while updating, you may have corrupt files on the DSP.



I just reset the unit and re-did the updates. That and I figured out how to assign inputs to outputs...:blush:


----------



## Babs

ndm said:


> A better solution would be to forget the IPAD owners and worry about us android folks.
> 
> 
> 
> If we had this.....OMG that would be so awesome. I really loved being in the house doing tuning stuff while my Jeep was in the frigid garage. This is one major awesome selling point for the Mosconi. Even if the app only allows you to select from 4 presets and control the volume and sub. It it still a great and useful feature that the 6to8 has.






Huckleberry Sound said:


> Could a possible solution to using an IPAD be to use an App for your IPAD that may allow you to connect to the DSP via the Helix Bluetooth Module?
> 
> It would be a hit or miss, but If the APP allowed you to assign a few different things. Could that be a possible solution?



I've heard an app that lets you remote to your PC, then cable up to your PC outside the car. I agree though.. They really need to embrace the mobile devices. Me being an iPad kinda guy. But also android. Anything but freakin windows based. 

THIS is why the kicker Q-Class amps I predict will be good sellers. For such a trivial reason maybe, but mobile device tuning is an extremely good feature.


----------



## WeDgE

How do you know when the DSP Pro is finished updating? I keep getting a please wait window popping up that counts down to 0%. Even after having the DSP plugged into the laptop for 15 minutes, it still came up. 

I unplugged the USB cord to the DSP after the "please wait" window went away and now it won't turn on the remote out after turning the DSP back on.


----------



## ndm

Two questions-

1.Does anyone have an update on the director being available any time soon?

2. Is there a way to lock the graph so that when you switch between channels it will stop deselecting all channels? I am sitting here playing with the software before my Pro gets here and every time I select to show all channels on the graph, as soon as I click on a single channel to adjust, it clears my check marks to show all channels on the graph.


----------



## miniSQ

WeDgE said:


> How do you know when the DSP Pro is finished updating? I keep getting a please wait window popping up that counts down to 0%. Even after having the DSP plugged into the laptop for 15 minutes, it still came up.
> 
> I unplugged the USB cord to the DSP after the "please wait" window went away and now it won't turn on the remote out after turning the DSP back on.


i am not running a Pro...just a standard DSP...but here is my walk thru on updating...

1. Turn on car and let music begin to play...turn down volume.
2. Open software program and plug in USB cable to computer.
3. right click "a" and load file...i hold down the mouse until the progress bar goes away. I dont know if i have to do this part or not but i do.
4. I click the button to send the new settings to the helix..(.i dont have the program open now so i dont know what the exact same is.) I think it is "store" or "load"...and when i do this i also hold the mouse down until the progress bar goes away.
5. close program and save ( or dont ) save changes.


----------



## WeDgE

Thanks, minisq, will give that a try tomorrow night. 

What do you mean by right clicking 'a'? I think the v3.0 software may be a bit different. 
So you don't have any issues with a progress bar repeatedly popping up?
Do you close the program before unplugging the cable?
How quickly does your DSP react to changes you make in the software (moving the level slider takes approximately 5 secs to hear a change)? 





miniSQ said:


> i am not running a Pro...just a standard DSP...but here is my walk thru on updating...
> 
> 1. Turn on car and let music begin to play...turn down volume.
> 2. Open software program and plug in USB cable to computer.
> 3. right click "a" and load file...i hold down the mouse until the progress bar goes away. I dont know if i have to do this part or not but i do.
> 4. I click the button to send the new settings to the helix..(.i dont have the program open now so i dont know what the exact same is.) I think it is "store" or "load"...and when i do this i also hold the mouse down until the progress bar goes away.
> 5. close program and save ( or dont ) save changes.


----------



## miniSQ

WeDgE said:


> Thanks, minisq, will give that a try tomorrow night.
> 
> What do you mean by right clicking 'a'? I think the v3.0 software may be a bit different.?


i mean that there are 2 inputs on the version 2 software, input A and input B i believe. On the very top.


----------



## ndm

Helix DSP pro----

Just got mine in and My first impressions are not so good yet. I realize that once I figure things out it should be alright though. My list of issues are as follows.

1. WTF. Who came up with the bright idea to use two different size connectors for the power and high level connectors?
2. WTF. The high level connector terminals are extremely small and damn near did not fit the wire I had previously installed. I had to search for a TINY screw driver to tighten the terminals. 
3. The mounting system is not very well though out. I am curious how you guys are securing yours. I am running a small screw on a diagonal. 
4. I do not like having to open the unit in order to adjust the input sensitivity of the inputs. 
5. My factory sub high level output is up to 20V but the front and rear is below 10V. The jumper to set the range is a one piece and therefore I cannot set the correct range for the sub at 10-20. I am curious to know if I can just offset the jumpers and find a small jumper to use for the sub channels. I wonder if it would mess anything up?

6. I cannot seem to even get the highlevel input for the sub to output to any channel. It has signal but does not even play. It might be due to the factory system in my Jeep needing to see a signal for it to work. We will see after I do some tests.

Edit....
7. I have discovered a NASTY turn off pop that absolutely needs to be taken care of.


----------



## miniSQ

ndm said:


> Helix DSP pro----
> 
> Just got mine in and My first impressions are not so good yet. I realize that once I figure things out it should be alright though. My list of issues are as follows.
> 
> 1. WTF. Who came up with the bright idea to use two different size connectors for the power and high level connectors?
> 2. WTF. The high level connector terminals are extremely small and damn near did not fit the wire I had previously installed. I had to search for a TINY screw driver to tighten the terminals.
> 3. The mounting system is not very well though out. I am curious how you guys are securing yours. I am running a small screw on a diagonal.
> 4. I do not like having to open the unit in order to adjust the input sensitivity of the inputs.
> 5. My factory sub high level output is up to 20V but the front and rear is below 10V. The jumper to set the range is a one piece and therefore I cannot set the correct range for the sub at 10-20. I am curious to know if I can just offset the jumpers and find a small jumper to use for the sub channels. I wonder if it would mess anything up?
> 
> 6. I cannot seem to even get the highlevel input for the sub to output to any channel. It has signal but does not even play. It might be due to the factory system in my Jeep needing to see a signal for it to work. We will see after I do some tests.
> 
> Edit....
> 7. I have discovered a NASTY turn off pop that absolutely needs to be taken care of.


1. i take this as a precaution to prevent accidentally mixing these connectors up
2. Yes they are small, but once you get it sorted out its somethign that you wont have to deal with again.
3. i purchased a 3" bit for my drill driver.
4-7 These do not pertain to the standard HelixDSP


----------



## subterFUSE

I was a little worried about the input sensitivity adjustments inside the DSP case, until I realized that I am only using Optical inputs. I have a mObridge DA1 preamp running into the main Optical input, and then the Audison BitPlay running optical into the HEC module. So no adjustments required. 

The high level inputs do look small. I'm glad I don't need them. 

We mounted my DSP under my rear deck into the trunk, with the amp rack.


I still have not finished the initial setup yet, so I can't comment on turn off pops yet. We did use a relay for my remote wires in hopes of preventing any pops. Not sure if it is working as planned, however. I'll know more soon.


----------



## jdigital

WeDgE said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro running Windows 7 via Parallels to connect. I hope this isn't the issue.


I did not have any success connecting the unit running win7,8 inside of parallels or fusion

It does however work great using bootcamp.


----------



## ndm

Okay...now here is one that has me perplexed.

I have the sub hooked into the rear sub output. Now there is no signal on the factory output when you fade to the front. Well, the sub is still playing when I have it faded to the front. I checked the RCA's. I checked the high level inputs. everything is connected correctly. So I then disconnected the high level input for the sub. That kills the signal. 

So it seems that there is some "bleed through" of the factory sub input. 

I do not really know what to think about this yet. 

What could be going wrong?


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> I was a little worried about the input sensitivity adjustments inside the DSP case, until I realized that I am only using Optical inputs. I have a mObridge DA1 preamp running into the main Optical input, and then the Audison BitPlay running optical into the HEC module. So no adjustments required.
> 
> *The high level inputs do look small. I'm glad I don't need them.*
> 
> *We mounted my DSP under my rear deck into the trunk, with the amp rack.*
> 
> 
> I still have not finished the initial setup yet, so I can't comment on turn off pops yet. We did use a relay for my remote wires in hopes of preventing any pops. Not sure if it is working as planned, however. I'll know more soon.


Well I wish I had optical out of my factory radio. Not an option for me though.

I am more talking abot the fact that the access to the screw is obstructed by the flange on the top. It is kind of pointless the way that they did it.


----------



## ndm

Damnit!! Seems as though I have damaged my right front mid in the door. I suspect than it was because of the nasty turn off pop.


----------



## miniSQ

ndm said:


> I am more talking abot the fact that the access to the screw is obstructed by the flange on the top. It is kind of pointless the way that they did it.


Doesn't the Pro have holes in the top plate? a thin screw driver or drill driver bit will go right thru the top holes to allow you to screw straight down from above.


----------



## ndm

miniSQ said:


> Doesn't the Pro have holes in the top plate? a thin screw driver or drill driver bit will go right thru the top holes to allow you to screw straight down from above.


I have never seen a driver bit that is small enough to fit through that hole.


----------



## miniSQ

ndm said:


> I have never seen a driver bit that is small enough to fit through that hole.


Makita 784236 A 2 Phillips Bit 2 132 Mm | eBay


this is the one i use for the HelixDSP and i assume its the same top plate.


----------



## ndm

miniSQ said:


> Makita 784236 A 2 Phillips Bit 2 132 Mm | eBay
> 
> 
> this is the one i use for the HelixDSP and i assume its the same top plate.


Cool. All my long drivers are too thick to fit through.



Thats what she said!


----------



## donotattempt

looking at this thread.


----------



## ndm

Ok....update...

So far so good!
After taking the plunge and forcing myself to start completely over from scratch I can say....wow. Now were getting somewhere. 

What happened you ask? I bit my lip and screwed up all my levels and gains to force myself to start with a clean plate. 

Some of the issues I mentioned before are still a problem but with a quick and dirty tune I can already say that I am officially on team Helix dsp pro now. 

This thing is a beast!

More details after I get home from my late night tuning spot............

.......to be continued......


----------



## ndm

ndm said:


> Ok....update...
> 
> So far so good!
> After taking the plunge and forcing myself to start completely over from scratch I can say....wow. Now were getting somewhere.
> 
> What happened you ask? I bit my lip and screwed up all my levels and gains to force myself to start with a clean plate.
> 
> Some of the issues I mentioned before are still a problem but with a quick and dirty tune I can already say that I am officially on team Helix dsp pro now.
> 
> This thing is a beast!
> 
> More details after I get home from my late night tuning spot............
> 
> .......to be continued......


I started a different kind of thread with my findings so far located here---- *http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/173404-switched-dsp-pro-mosconi-6to8v8-comparisons.html#post2244424*


----------



## WeDgE

Perfect, thank you! 

It was next on my list of things to try. Hopefully the lag between making an adjustment in the software and actually hearing the change is fixed by running on a faster computer as well. 





jdigital said:


> I did not have any success connecting the unit running win7,8 inside of parallels or fusion
> 
> It does however work great using bootcamp.


----------



## ndm

I posted an email to the Audiotec Fischer ebsite but I figured that you guys might have a solution or maybe a US tech support line that may be able to advise me. 





> I have a Helix DSP Pro and I am using it with my factory radio in a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8. I want to use the high level inputs from the front highs, front lows, rear and sub output. With these connections the sub and rear are on the rear fader channels.
> 
> The problem is that when I fade to the rear I am still getting signal to my sub woofer channel and I should not be. I have the signal set at 100% to the sub woofer channel so there should not be any signal present with the system faded to the front.
> 
> Please advise on if there is a solution to this problem.
> 
> My second question is as follows and may be contributing to the first issue.
> 
> My front 1, front 2, and rear outputs on my factory high level signal are all below 10 Volts. The rear high level signal is at 20 Volts. Is there a way that I can have the input sensitivity jumper set on the 5-10 volt setting an have the sub channel set on the 10-20 volt setting? The jumper is a one piece design so I did not know if it would work if I used a separate jumper for the sub channel. I do not want to break my unit by doing this so I did not try it. As it is right now I am just using the jumper in the 10-20 setting and it is working fine enough with sub channel high level input disconnected due to the first issue.
> 
> Please advise. Thank you


This is the frequency response of the channels that I am working with so you can see why I want to use the sub channel highlevel out for the input on the helix. you can see the response falls off at about 45HZ.


----------



## ndm

New software update change log!!

mic calibrations available!



> Version	Beschreibung
> 3.06b
> The HELIX P SIX DSP has been implemented in the DSP PC-Tool (live & demo mode)
> Main - The adjustment range of the shelving filter has been increased
> DCM - The loading & saving procedure has been improved
> DCM - release times in the signal management tab were adjusted
> IO - Fixed an issue when displaying routed signals
> Time - Assigned channel names will be displayed correctly like named in the IO menu
> RTA - A function for loading microphone calibration data has been implemented. The specific corrections have to be added in the 'cal.txt' file in the installation folder of the DSP PC-Tool (default: Crogram filesATF DSP PC-Tool 3.xx). The corrections are starting in row number three, should be added in the same format and every correction has to be written in a separate row. You can add as many corrections as you need. After the "cal.txt" is loaded correctly you will find a small symbol between the Autoset and the Settings button in the RTA window.
> The backend has been reworked to allow a faster implementation of supported products
> The launcher has been changed to select supported devices for demo mode


----------



## WeDgE

Anyone have issues with 3.06b crashing after opening and closing the program the first time? 

I've had to reinstall multiple times so far... Guess that's why it's a 'beta'.


----------



## subterFUSE

WeDgE said:


> Anyone have issues with 3.06b crashing after opening and closing the program the first time?
> 
> I've had to reinstall multiple times so far... Guess that's why it's a 'beta'.


I ran 3.06b for about 3 hours last night and never had an issue.


----------



## ndm

WeDgE said:


> Anyone have issues with 3.06b crashing after opening and closing the program the first time?
> 
> I've had to reinstall multiple times so far... Guess that's why it's a 'beta'.


I was not going to be the first to actually do the update! Lol...just in case.


----------



## donotattempt

It installed and had it open in demo mode last night for quite a while without any issues.


----------



## RoyAlpine

any news regarding the new remote control?


----------



## ndm

WeDgE said:


> Anyone have issues with 3.06b crashing after opening and closing the program the first time?
> 
> I've had to reinstall multiple times so far... Guess that's why it's a 'beta'.


Uninstall the new program, reinstall and restart your computer. 

Mine crashed then I did those steps and it worked just fine.
*
EDIT---Mine seems broken too now. Not wanting open the program. I just uninstalled the new stuff and am using the 3.00 software again. Maybe I did something wrong.*


----------



## subterFUSE

No problems on my end. I simply installed 3.06b once, and it has been working fine.

Windows 8.1 on an Asus Transformer Book.


----------



## Babs

Bad downloads?


----------



## lizardking

Love the fact they added the mic calibrations. Seems really cumbersome. You must add all the corrections manually? Seems dumb. Why not just a button for adding a calibration file you saved on the computer like most all RTA software?

RTA - A function for loading microphone calibration data has been implemented. The specific corrections have to be added in the 'cal.txt' file in the installation folder of the DSP PC-Tool (default: Crogram filesATF DSP PC-Tool 3.xx). The corrections are starting in row number three, should be added in the same format and every correction has to be written in a separate row. You can add as many corrections as you need. After the "cal.txt" is loaded correctly you will find a small symbol between the Autoset and the Settings button in the RTA window.


----------



## Hipps2000

Hi guys, I finally got my stuff wired up in my 2013 ram 1500 with the 8.4" AN head unit and everything is working and playing nicely. I have a helix pro DSP. I used a net audio OEM connect harness no cutting, which is a high level audio out set of cables that runs to the back passenger seat. High level runs into the helix then Rcas out into 2 JL audio xd amps 1000/5 and 400/4. I am running all Hybrid audio legatia speakers and imagination 6x9 in the rear. JL audio 12 tw3 sub. In the front doors 6.5", 3.5" in dash, and l1pro tweets mounted in custom sail pods BradKnob made. 

My problem is that when truck is not running I have a barely noticeable very slight hiss and nothing running in truck. Sometimes when I turn on its much louder, but if I turn Vechicle off and let truck power down and restart it goes away and back to the very low hiss. Mostly commg out of tweets and 3.5" which are on their own amp 400/4. The sound isnt very noticeable but is driving me nuts. I have no popping, no motor noise when driving or running motor. I havent tuned the unit much only to assign the high level inputs to out puts and rough crossover points. Y defining the speakers. My local audio shop doesn't have much experience with the helix and/or tuning so they were not much help. Any ideas of what could be causing this soft hiss which at times can become louder but with a restart of key cycle goes away to the faint hiss. I used knuconceptz 0 ga power wire to distro block and everything grounded on the seat bracket bolts grounded to clean metal. I also used knuconceptz middle of the road rcas. 

I could also use some help with some of the basic settings anyone is using in the ram quad cab to load into the DSP as a starting point as I have not even began to set time alignment and eq settings. I am a newbie to all of this and any guidance would greatly be appreciated as to diagnose and tune. Also if any knows of anyone in the CT Ma or NYC area that is knowledgeable as I am in CT.


----------



## subterFUSE

Hipps2000 said:


> My problem is that when truck is not running I have a barely noticeable very slight hiss and nothing running in truck. Sometimes when I turn on its much louder, but if I turn Vechicle off and let truck power down and restart it goes away and back to the very low hiss. Mostly commg out of tweets and 3.5" which are on their own amp 400/4.


While I am not 100% certain the cause of the hiss, in my prior experience with using High Level inputs on a DSP it is very important to get the input levels matched on the DSP.

The Helix DSP Pro has input gain controls which, unfortunately, are located inside the box. You must remove the cover to adjust them. But once you have them set, you theoretically can forget them.

The first thing you want to do, is use a multimeter to test the voltage of your high level signal. The DSP Pro inputs can be set for 5-10 Volts, or 10-20 Volts of input. You first want to be sure you are using the correct range.

Inside the DSP Pro case when you remove the cover is a jumper and potentiometers that can be adjusted with a phillips screwdriver. The jumper determines whether you are in 5-10V range, or the 10-20V range. Based on the reading of your source voltage you will want to set the correct input range with the jumper. Then, you can use a screwdriver to adjust the sensitivity to fine-tune it where it needs to be. The owners manual explains how to set the jumper. There are actually 2 sets of jumpers. 1 for the High Inputs, and another for the Channel G & H preamp inputs.

You want to be sure that you are using the highest undistorted volume out of your head unit while setting the DSP sensitivity. The higher signal will help ensure the noise floor is lower than the actual audio signal. An oscilloscope is very helpful for finding the max undistorted level, but if you don't have one just use 80-90% of max volume as a general rule.


If you need more instruction on how to set these levels, just say so and I can try to get more detailed.


Edit: The manual has detailed instructions on the sensitivity setting procedure on page 18. The DSP Pro also has a clipping LED indicator you can use while setting.


----------



## Hipps2000

Yes thank you for your response! I did read somewhere in the instructions something about opening the cover. I have the factory base system in my truck which included dash, front doors, and rear doors, so will all six be similar or could some be higher than others? I think that your ideas are the best places to start. I thank you for your feedback. Is there just the 2 settings? Do you know what helix ships as the default? When I get some time this is the first thing I will be checking. I will report back with my findings.


----------



## subterFUSE

Hipps2000 said:


> I did read somewhere in the instructions something about opening the cover. I have the factory base system in my truck which included dash, front doors, and rear doors, so will all six be similar or could some be higher than others?


It is possible, and probably very likely that the levels are different for the available outputs. That is why there are the potentiometers for each of the 8 inputs on the DSP Pro.



> Is there just the 2 settings? Do you know what helix ships as the default?


There is the jumper, and then the screwdriver dials.

The default jumper setting is the 5-10V range.



You will want to find a CD with a 1000Hz sine wave @ -0dB level. You might be able to download a music file with that test signal, and burn it to CD. Or play it from an iPod, or whatever.

Unplug your amps from the DSP Pro first. You don't want a sine wave playing on your speakers. It can hurt them.

Open the DSP Pro cover.

There will be a line of 8 white phillips-head screw dials.

Play the 1000Hz test signal on the CD player. Turn the volume on the head unit up to 90%.

On the DSP Pro, look on the side of the unit for the Status LED. It is next to the USB port.

If the status LED is red, then you need to turn down the level on each of the white dials until the red LED goes off.

If you cannot get the red LED to turn off even at the lowest setting for all the inputs, then you need to move the jumper and try again.

Now that the LED is off, start with one white dial at a time. Slowly turn up the dial until the red LED turns on. When the red light comes on, turn the dial back down slowly until the light goes off and then stop.

Do this on the next white dial. Turn up until red light comes on, then turn down just until it goes off.

Repeat on each channel you are using for input.





Picture are in the manual. Page 17-18.


----------



## matdotcom2000

Hey did West Co every get the comparison of the cdsp and the DSP pro up?


----------



## jdigital

lizardking said:


> Love the fact they added the mic calibrations. Seems really cumbersome. You must add all the corrections manually? Seems dumb. Why not just a button for adding a calibration file you saved on the computer like most all RTA software?


If you have ever opened a *.cal file for a mic with a text editor you will notice it's exactly the format helix describes and expects for the cal.txt file. So just rename the file and copy it to the program folder.


----------



## davewpy

Anyone have a problem with the system muting once you exit ATF DSP Pro 3.06b?


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Anyone have a problem with the system muting once you exit ATF DSP Pro 3.06b?


That is done by design.

When you disconnect from the DSP, or use the remote control to switch between DSP profiles, the DSP will turn off the amps for a moment until the switch is completed to prevent thumping the speakers.


----------



## davewpy

subterFUSE said:


> That is done by design.
> 
> When you disconnect from the DSP, or use the remote control to switch between DSP profiles, the DSP will turn off the amps for a moment until the switch is completed to prevent thumping the speakers.


Are you sure? Because this has never happened before. I have proper remote on setup. I have gone back to 3.04 and it is back to normal.

On 3.06b, the muting issue occurred once I exit the software after saving. There should be no muting at all.


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Are you sure? Because this has never happened before. I have proper remote on setup. I have gone back to 3.04 and it is back to normal.
> 
> On 3.06b, the muting issue occurred once I exit the software after saving. There should be no muting at all.



Every time I close the DSP software the amps, and anything else controlled by the DSP remote out, are shut off temporarily.

Also, I have the optional remote control with the button programmed to swap setups 1 & 2. When I press the button, the amps will shut down for a moment while the setup loads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sonic525

Hello all.

Ok so here is my situation. My 3sixty.3 had died. Red light and all. Would you all recommend moving to the Helix DSP Pro or get another 3sixty.3. Went to 4 shops around my area Fontana CA and unable to locate the Helix. Any idea where to purchesed one in my area and have it installed and tuned?


----------



## Babs

Oh definitely I'd do the Helix, and mine is the lesser 8-ch. great piece. Quiet, strong and capable. Heard of folks running power lines right next to them no noise worries.


----------



## Sonic525

Ok think I'm going for the helix. Anyone in SoCal area deal or know a location that sells them? I'm looking to get it asap as I have no tunes. Been calling around and can't find anything. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bbfoto

Sonic525 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> Ok so here is my situation. My 3sixty.3 had died. Red light and all. Would you all recommend moving to the Helix DSP Pro or get another 3sixty.3. Went to 4 shops around my area Fontana CA and unable to locate the Helix. Any idea where to purchesed one in my area and have it installed and tuned?


Helix Dealers are few and far between. But for the 3Sixty.3 did you try Pacific Stereo in Riverside? I bought one there that I actually have For Sale in the Classifieds here and it's still BNIB...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/174238-fs-rf-3sixty-3-nib-dsp-processor-rockford-fosgate-goodness.html

I'm selling this one that I kept as a backup to my other 3Sixty.3, which is currently installed and has been working great for ~3+ years. *EDIT: my 3Sixty.3 is no longer available.*


Pacific Stereo
10251 Indiana Ave
Riverside, CA 92503
(951) 785-5000

Pacific Stereo

If you have the extra coin, I would also recommend the Helix DSP PRO. Just know that you would need to buy the remote separately for $60 if you want the same functionality as the 3Sixty's remote. And Helix will have a new remote that is supposed to come out soon, but I'm guessing it will be at least $150-$225. For the Helix, you would also have to purchase separate "HEC" modules for it if you want to add BlueTooth streaming, additional Digital Optical Inputs or Output, etc. Check them out on the Audiotec-Fischer website.

So in the end, for the Helix, expect to pay almost double of what the 3Sixty.3 costs. Honestly, if you really don't need the extra 2 channels on the Helix, and you aren't a super-tweaker/tuner, then I'd say just save some money and buy the 3Sixty (even if you don't buy mine). 

I haven't used any of the other Helix processors personally, but I love my DSP PRO so far, and it'll be better once the new remote is available.

I'll say that I still like the 3Sixty.3's software and remote control...simple and it just works!


----------



## Sonic525

bbfoto : I was at Pacific Stereo today. I got all my components there focal krx2, 690AC, fpd 900.6, fpd900.1. They do have the 360.3 but looking to move up to the Helix. Where did you get your helix DSP pro at?


----------



## davewpy

subterFUSE said:


> That is done by design.
> 
> When you disconnect from the DSP, or use the remote control to switch between DSP profiles, the DSP will turn off the amps for a moment until the switch is completed to prevent thumping the speakers.


Have found the resolution to my symptoms. The power saver mode was set to enable, I disabled that and it doesn't shut down the system on software exit now.

Once again, for clarity's sake, it does not occur on 3.04.


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Have found the resolution to my symptoms. The power saver mode was set to enable, I disabled that and it doesn't shut down the system on software exit now.
> 
> Once again, for clarity's sake, it does not occur on 3.04.



I had a feeling it was the power save mode. I had pretty much the same issue until I disabled that on mine.

I think that Power Save is an excellent feature. The primary purpose is to prevent the stereo from staying turned on when you have a car that does not "sleep" for a while after shut off. But it also will allow the amps to be shut down to save power when you are not actively playing audio. Kind of like a noise gate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ndm

Now that I am no longer feeding high level into the pro, are you guys running low level having issues with firmware 3.06?

I switched back to 3.04 when I was running the factory crap. Now Im thinking about giving 3.06 another try.


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> Now that I am no longer feeding high level into the pro, are you guys running low level having issues with firmware 3.06?
> 
> 
> 
> I switched back to 3.04 when I was running the factory crap. Now Im thinking about giving 3.06 another try.



I am running all Optical inputs and 3.06b is working well for me.
Absolutely nothing wrong with this software version on my end.

There is one feature I want to bring to their attention. It is difficult to explain, but I will do my best.

When you run a digital input or inputs into the DSP Pro, you must go into the DCM menu and check some settings. One of the options is whether to use automatic signal detection or manual selection of the digital input. With automatic detection, there are two options that must be set per input. 1 is the sensitivity level for the signal detection. Default is -60dB. The other is the release time for the input. When a signal is no longer detected, a timer begins and then that time reaches the release time setting it mutes the input.

Why is this an issue? What if you are not listening to music but you still need the audio system to be ready? For example, I have navigation in my car. The audio for the NAV plays over the stereo. If I am running NAV but not playing audio, then the release timer is muting the digital input. Then the NAV gives me vocal instructions and the audio signal detection turns on the digital input. But the signal detection is slow to start, so I miss the first moment of audio. So instead of hearing "Left turn in 200 yards" I get "... in 200 yards."
The first couple of words are cut off because the input is muted until signal detections turns it on.

Same thing happens on the competition CD with the snare drum placement track. The left side snare drum hits are not heard because the digital input is not active until signal detection turns it on.

The issue is that even when I set my digital inputs to manual selection from the remote, they still mute the inputs until audio is detected. So no matter what I do, I cant hear which way my NAV wants me to turn or get those far left drum snares to play from that competition CD.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Sonic525

Question: Does the Helix DSP pro flatten your factory system audio signal like the 3sixy.3 does?


----------



## subterFUSE

Sonic525 said:


> Question: Does the Helix DSP pro flatten your factory system audio signal like the 3sixy.3 does?



No. To my knowledge it does not have any input EQ.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Sonic525

So this makes it harder to work with then the 3sixty.3 or is that not a big issue? I'm new to all this. Ran the 3sixty.3 in my system for a year now and it craped out. Going to replace it with the helix DSP pro just wondering if it will be to much for me to handle or would I be able to get good audio out if it with the auto tune feture it has.


----------



## davewpy

ndm said:


> Now that I am no longer feeding high level into the pro, are you guys running low level having issues with firmware 3.06?
> 
> I switched back to 3.04 when I was running the factory crap. Now Im thinking about giving 3.06 another try.


No longer an issue for me once I solved that muting nonsense. My canbus controls the alpine and it remotes to the DSP which in turn controls the amp.


----------



## ErinH

alright, don't freaking panic... this is a simple question...

I popped one of my tweeters recently. With anything electronic, there's always the risk it's at fault. The issue in my case can be a number of things but to help me check it off the list, I have to ask this: has anyone else running the pro fried a tweeter? Doesn't matter which channel... 

I'm not blaming the dsp, but I want to know if this may be attributed to the dsp or if it's simply something else in my setup (or possibly my own fault). I'm not looking to troubleshoot my problem here, I can handle that myself. Just looking to know if anyone with the dsp pro has blown a tweeter. If so, lmk. If not, don't worry about it.


----------



## bbfoto

subterFUSE said:


> I am running all Optical inputs and 3.06b is working well for me.
> Absolutely nothing wrong with this software version on my end.
> 
> There is one feature I want to bring to their attention. It is difficult to explain, but I will do my best.
> 
> When you run a digital input or inputs into the DSP Pro, you must go into the DCM menu and check some settings. One of the options is whether to use automatic signal detection or manual selection of the digital input. With automatic detection, there are two options that must be set per input. 1 is the sensitivity level for the signal detection. Default is -60dB. The other is the release time for the input. When a signal is no longer detected, a timer begins and then that time reaches the release time setting it mutes the input.
> 
> Why is this an issue? What if you are not listening to music but you still need the audio system to be ready? For example, I have navigation in my car. The audio for the NAV plays over the stereo. If I am running NAV but not playing audio, then the release timer is muting the digital input. Then the NAV gives me vocal instructions and the audio signal detection turns on the digital input. But the signal detection is slow to start, so I miss the first moment of audio. So instead of hearing "Left turn in 200 yards" I get "... in 200 yards."
> The first couple of words are cut off because the input is muted until signal detections turns it on.
> 
> Same thing happens on the competition CD with the snare drum placement track. The left side snare drum hits are not heard because the digital input is not active until signal detection turns it on.
> 
> The issue is that even when I set my digital inputs to manual selection from the remote, they still mute the inputs until audio is detected. So no matter what I do, I cant hear which way my NAV wants me to turn or get those far left drum snares to play from that competition CD.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Same problem here using digital input to the DSP PRO and my NAV setup. I'm going to email Audiotech-Fischer about it as well.

For the Snare Drum track just rip the CD or File and load it into Audacity (free Audio Editing Software for Windows & Mac). Then add a few seconds of silence or a low-level tone (just so it's not 0 bits). Save the file and/or burn a new CD.

I've got some really great microphones and the Audient iD22 & Arturia Audiofuse Digital Interfaces/Mic Pre's that I'm testing, so I'm thinking about making my own "Snare Drum Track" (I've got a full drum kit). If I create the track, I'll post up a Link to it.


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> alright, don't freaking panic... this is a simple question...
> 
> I popped one of my tweeters recently. With anything electronic, there's always the risk it's at fault. The issue in my case can be a number of things but to help me check it off the list, I have to ask this: has anyone else running the pro fried a tweeter? Doesn't matter which channel...
> 
> I'm not blaming the dsp, but I want to know if this may be attributed to the dsp or if it's simply something else in my setup (or possibly my own fault). I'm not looking to troubleshoot my problem here, I can handle that myself. Just looking to know if anyone with the dsp pro has blown a tweeter. If so, lmk. If not, don't worry about it.


Luckily no problems with that yet on my end, but I do use "protection" caps on my tweeters.

Simple question...Did the processor make a "Pop" in just one channel, or output high-level music at full-pass? Was this a random occurrence, or did it happen while making a specific adjustment?


----------



## ErinH

no pops. music. like I said, I'm not looking to do any troubleshooting in this thread (don't want to derail it). just asking the question here as part of my other efforts.


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> no pops. music. like I said, I'm not looking to do any troubleshooting in this thread (don't want to derail it). just asking the question here as part of my other efforts.


That's cool. I just wanted to know if there was a specific instance to "watch out/be careful" for while tuning or during setup so it doesn't potentially happen to others, since you don't seem to know EXACTLY what caused it yet. 

Carry On My Wayward Son...

On a Side Note: Does anybody have any updates on the New Commander Remote availability?


----------



## subterFUSE

bbfoto said:


> For the Snare Drum track just rip the CD or File and load it into Audacity (free Audio Editing Software for Windows & Mac). Then add a few seconds of silence or a low-level tone (just so it's not 0 bits). Save the file and/or burn a new CD.


The other option is to increase the release timer to a higher time, which will lock down the input longer.

But I do think they need to eliminate the timer while using manual input selection.


----------



## subterFUSE

ErinH said:


> alright, don't freaking panic... this is a simple question...
> 
> I popped one of my tweeters recently. With anything electronic, there's always the risk it's at fault. The issue in my case can be a number of things but to help me check it off the list, I have to ask this: has anyone else running the pro fried a tweeter? Doesn't matter which channel...
> 
> I'm not blaming the dsp, but I want to know if this may be attributed to the dsp or if it's simply something else in my setup (or possibly my own fault). I'm not looking to troubleshoot my problem here, I can handle that myself. Just looking to know if anyone with the dsp pro has blown a tweeter. If so, lmk. If not, don't worry about it.


No tweeters in my car, just horns. But no issues whatsoever for me with damage to speakers. If anything, I would actually say that the DSP Pro seems to be overly protective of drivers. i.e. Insisting to shut off amps while swapping DSP presets.


----------



## Sonic525

Ok I just downloaded and browsed the 4 manuals that are available online. Its safe to say I am a "double helix wrapped around an inclined plane". Been searching online for a video tutorial on how to get started and not blow my speakers. Anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, video links anything that can help a noob?


----------



## miniSQ

Sonic525 said:


> Ok I just downloaded and browsed the 4 manuals that are available online. Its safe to say I am a "double helix wrapped around an inclined plane". Been searching online for a video tutorial on how to get started and not blow my speakers. Anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, video links anything that can help a noob?


there are no real video links on setting up the helix...but its not as hard as you might think Leonard.

You can always post your set up and have someone great a starting "tune" for you and send you a file to upload.


----------



## subterFUSE

Sonic525 said:


> Ok I just downloaded and browsed the 4 manuals that are available online. Its safe to say I am a "double helix wrapped around an inclined plane". Been searching online for a video tutorial on how to get started and not blow my speakers. Anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, video links anything that can help a noob?


I will gladly build you a starter template setup file, if you like. Can you answer these questions for me?

1. Is your forum signature a fully-accurate diagram of your audio equipment?

2. Are you using High Level outputs from your OEM source? Or low level?

3. How many outputs are you using from your source into the Helix? What are they, and which inputs are they using? For example, Front Left Tweeter output into Hi-Level Input 1. Front Right Tweeter output into Hi-Level 2.

2. Are you running the speakers with any passive crossovers? Or everything active?

3. Are the 6x9 speakers in the rear?

4. Which outputs from the Helix are feeding your amps? And which channels? For example, is Subwoofer amp on channel 7 output? Tweeters on outputs 1 & 2?

5. Do you have any AUX sources? Digital sources?

6. Do you have the UC2A Remote controller? (Optional)


With that information, I should be able to put together a starter file that will be a good beginning for you while protecting the speakers.


----------



## Sonic525

subterFUSE: A start up file would be amazing and very much appreciated. My Helix DSP pro is currently being shipped and should arrive Friday. I will get it up and running and answer all your questions once I install it this weekend.


----------



## Sonic525

Will this microphone work with the helix DSP pro "miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone". Thinking I might need this. Or any other suggestions?


----------



## subterFUSE

Sonic525 said:


> Will this microphone work with the helix DSP pro "miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone". Thinking I might need this. Or any other suggestions?


I believe it will work now that Helix has enabled calibration files to be loaded.

You will need at least 2 USB inputs on your laptop. 1 for the Helix, and 1 for the UMIK. Otherwise a USB hub might be necessary.

I also suggest you consider buying the UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs. It will be more expensive, but they do a much more thorough job of the calibration and give you on-axis, 45 degree and 90 degree off-axis cal files.


----------



## Sonic525

Look what just arrived.


----------



## subterFUSE

Send me your OEM outputs, the corresponding Helix inputs, and the Helix outputs to your amps and I will build your starter template.


----------



## Sonic525

subterFUSE: Thank you so much for all your help. Below are the answers to all your questions. If any further information is needed please advise. Thank you. 

1. Is your forum signature a fully-accurate diagram of your audio equipment?
A. Yes my signature is a fully-accurate diagram of my audio equipment.	

2. Are you using High Level outputs from your OEM source? Or low level?
A. I am using High Level outputs form my OEM source.

3. How many outputs are you using from your source into the Helix? What are they, and which inputs are they using? For example, Front Left Tweeter output into Hi-Level Input 1. Front Right Tweeter output into Hi-Level 2.
A. Input 1. Front Left full range
Input 2. Front Right full range
Input 3. Back Left full range
Input 4. Back Right full range

2. Are you running the speakers with any passive crossovers? Or everything active?
A. No passive crossovers. This is an active system.

3. Are the 6x9 speakers in the rear?
A. Yes the 6x9 speakers are in the rear.

4. Which outputs from the Helix are feeding your amps? And which channels? For example, is Subwoofer amp on channel 7 output? Tweeters on outputs 1 & 2?
A. Output A. Front Left Tweeter – Amp CH 1
Output B. Front Right Tweeter – Amp CH 2
Output C. Front Left Speaker – Amp CH 3
Output D. Front Right Speaker – Amp CH 4
Output E. Rear Left Speaker – Amp CH 5
Output F. Rear Right Speaker – Amp CH 6
Output G. Sub – Mono Amp 

5. Do you have any AUX sources? Digital sources?
A. No Aux sources. No Digital Sources.

6. Do you have the UC2A Remote controller? (Optional)
A. No UC2A Remote. I will be picking up the Director once it is released.


----------



## miniSQ

Sonic525 said:


> 3. How many outputs are you using from your source into the Helix? What are they, and which inputs are they using? For example, Front Left Tweeter output into Hi-Level Input 1. Front Right Tweeter output into Hi-Level 2.
> A. Input 1. Front Left full range
> Input 2. Front Right full range
> Input 3. Back Left full range
> Input 4. Back Right full range


Are you sure about this?


----------



## Sonic525

Im not sure if they are full rang but the inputs are correct. Would you recomend me changing them?


----------



## miniSQ

Sonic525 said:


> Im not sure if they are full rang but the inputs are correct. Would you recomend me changing them?


reason i asked was that on my HelixDSP install i also have 4 hi level ( speaker level ) full range inputs...but i would label them:

1. Front left pos
2. Front left neg
3. front right pos
4. Front right neg

maybe i missread your post, or you misspoke? You did say you have high level inputs going to your Helix?


----------



## subterFUSE

Building the template now.

The subwoofer amp, does it require both left and right channel inputs to be used when running mono?

If yes, are you planning to use a Y-Cable, or do you prefer to use 2 channels out of the Helix?


----------



## Sonic525

Subterfuse: my mono amp is the focal fpd 900.1. i just got it and im not sure if two inputs are required. If they are then we can use output H and run two rca to it.


----------



## subterFUSE

Sonic525 said:


> Subterfuse: my mono amp is the focal fpd 900.1. i just got it and im not sure if two inputs are required. If they are then we can use output H and run two rca to it.


The manual says to use left and right inputs and the amp will mix them mono.


----------



## subterFUSE

subterFUSE said:


> The manual says to use left and right inputs and the amp will mix them mono.


Actually, looking at the manual there is a switch to put the amp in "Direct" mode which will bypass the internal crossover. Since you are running a DSP, I think that might be the way to run that amp. The manual says when running in Direct mode, just use the Left input on the amp.

You might want to confirm that with a Focal dealer, just to be sure. But I'm thinking that's the way to go in your case.

So that means only 1 channel out of the Helix into the Left channel of the amp. Crossover will be done in the DSP.


----------



## Sonic525

Perfect.


----------



## subterFUSE

Here's a setup template for you.

I have 4 Hi Level inputs being used:

A = Front Left Full
B = Front Right Full
C = Rear Left Full
D = Rear Right Full


The Helix outputs are as follows:

A = Front Left Tweeter
B = Front Right Tweeter
C = Front Left Woofer
D = Front Right Woofer
E = Rear Left Full
F = Rear Right Full
G = Subwoofer mono

The subwoofer output G should be plugged into the Left input on the mono amp.

I set some starter crossovers for each speaker. They are Linkwitz 24 dB slopes. These are just a place to start. You will want to experiment with different settings.

I also muted all the channels just to be cautious. So you will need to unmute them when you first load the profile.



Since you are using the High-Level inputs, you don't need to connect a remote input on the Helix DSP Pro. It has automatic signal detection to turn on the DSP.

You will also need to set the input gains which are inside the DSP case. Do this before you connect the DSP to your amplifiers. Refer to the manual for detailed pics and instructions. There is a clipping LED on the DSP unit which can serve as your guide.


----------



## Sonic525

You are absolutely amazing. Thank you sooooo much for all your help. I will go work on this now and keep you updated. You are truly a king amongst men.


----------



## nanohead

I now have the popping at turn on. Its more like a screech that lasts 1 second. Its crazy. Using low level input (1 pair only), using the routing to split and sum. Didn't have this problem with the mosconi or the jbl.


----------



## subterFUSE

nanohead said:


> I now have the popping at turn on. Its more like a screech that lasts 1 second. Its crazy. Using low level input (1 pair only), using the routing to split and sum. Didn't have this problem with the mosconi or the jbl.


Are you using a remote in wire to turn on the DSP?


----------



## nanohead

subterFUSE said:


> Are you using a remote in wire to turn on the DSP?


Yes. Is there another way?


----------



## subterFUSE

nanohead said:


> Yes. Is there another way?


Only if you are using the High-Level inputs. Those have auto detection and don't require the Remote In.

But, if you are using pre-amp inputs on the Helix DSP Pro, then you must use the remote in wire to turn on the DSP.

You should not connect the DSP remote in to an ignition wire, however. That will cause turn on pops.


----------



## Sonic525

Install complete. Working on tunning. So lost but will get there. I hope.


----------



## SPAZ

I was thinking of buying the bluetooth module for the dsp pro. How is the sound quality through bluetooth? I was thinking of connecting an ipad or android and pushing lossless quality tracks. How easy is it to switch sources lets say from head unit to bluetooth and back?


----------



## SPAZ

SPAZ said:


> I was thinking of buying the bluetooth module for the dsp pro. How is the sound quality through bluetooth? I was thinking of connecting an ipad or android and pushing lossless quality tracks. How easy is it to switch sources lets say from head unit to bluetooth and back?


Anyone?


----------



## ndm

SPAZ said:


> I was thinking of buying the bluetooth module for the dsp pro. How is the sound quality through bluetooth? I was thinking of connecting an ipad or android and pushing lossless quality tracks. How easy is it to switch sources lets say from head unit to bluetooth and back?


Cannot help you there. I use the bluetooth on my head unit and it sounds great!


----------



## Sonic525

Sorry I don't have the Bluetooth modal eather.


----------



## jdigital

SPAZ said:


> I was thinking of buying the bluetooth module for the dsp pro. How is the sound quality through bluetooth? I was thinking of connecting an ipad or android and pushing lossless quality tracks. How easy is it to switch sources lets say from head unit to bluetooth and back?


I'm using the HEC BT module. You won't be getting lossless from the ipad unless you use an airplay receiver with digital outputs, because it will revert to regular compressed bluetooth audio, not aptx. I found an htc mini one on ebay for $30 and it's working great as it supports aptx. Also don't bother with the kokkia aptx adapter for iOS devices as it's unable to pair with the HEC BT. The reason is you need connect to the helix from your bluetooth control panel on the streaming device, and using the adapter doesn't provide any type of control panel. If the helix software allowed to connect to devices rather than only receive them there would be hope.

Switching sources is very easy and there are 2 options. Manually using the remote (I built my own thanks to the diy remote thread with a toggle switch to go between bluetooth and digital inputs), or with automatic signal detection in the setup menu. You can adjust what level the signal must reach before being considered active, and you can adjust how long after the signal falls below that threshold before it de-activates.

I'm really glad I picked it up because the unit feels complete with it. The HEC BT module also provides digital outputs (which the unit doesn't have otherwise) which have come in handy for me personally.


----------



## subterFUSE

Bluetooth audio is a half-baked technology, IMO.

Like MP3, it was bred for convenience... not quality.

If you care about SQ, don't use it.


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## nanohead

subterFUSE said:


> Bluetooth audio is a half-baked technology, IMO.
> 
> Like MP3, it was bred for convenience... not quality.
> 
> If you care about SQ, don't use it.


Pretty much true. Bluetooth in general is challenged. Its more than a decade old, and isn't really good at anything by current standards, even phone calls. 

Even aptx is an ancient hack in computer science years. Its another patch on top of a heavily patched bluetooth.


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## jdigital

I did notice aptx even though it claims cd quality over bluetooth still uses compression. Though the aptx codec isnt publicly available they claim it's great and it only compresses away the inaudible portions of the audio and were just going to have to take their word for it. I think it does a fine job, but I also think airplay is superior since wifi has much greater bandwidth than bluetooth and allows for true lossless streaming wirelessly.

My favorite solution right now is using raspberry pi 2 ($35) running OpenELEC ($0) which acts as a media server and airplay receiver with digital outputs. Getting optical output from rpi2 requires either an hdmi audio extractor ($20) or the 'HiFiBerry Digi+' for rpi2 (~$30). Using 'kodi remote' allows you to see the remote files on your wireless device, where as using the official 'sybu for kodi' (iOS) or 'kore Official Remote for Kodi' (android) lists the files on your hdmi output (tv) rather than on your remote app. There are android apps to stream over airplay that don't require rooting your device. There is also an alternative OS to Kodi/OpenELEC, 'volumio' which is strictly for audio and also does airplay receiving and allows browsing of the remote library on your wireless device. I'm curious what value the audison bitplay adds at 10x the cost of the setup I just described for exactly the same features.


----------



## Babs

I know REW is a superior tool, but thought I'd ask since the Helix RTA now has some fairly cool features anyone use it for EQ tuning? Been messing with it and getting some nice results, just EQ'ing frontstage as one. Tweets, then mids, then Sub. Haven't tried extensively with individual unlinked channels yet. Learning as I go reading the guides.


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## nanohead

I use both the Helix RTA and REW. I sort of like REW better for basic measuring, but the Helix RTA has its uses too.


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## SPAZ

Finally got my DSP Pro installed. Pretty cool that I can measure direct from the interface. I'm assuming it is not recommended to use music so what are you guys using to take the measurements? Sweeps or noise?


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## ndm

SPAZ said:


> Finally got my DSP Pro installed. Pretty cool that I can measure direct from the interface. I'm assuming it is not recommended to use music so what are you guys using to take the measurements? Sweeps or noise?


Noise


----------



## SPAZ

Is there freely available noise I can download to put on a cd?


----------



## SPLEclipse

SPAZ said:


> Is there freely available noise I can download to put on a cd?


Free Online Audio Tests, Test Tones and Tone Generators

I'm assuming you'll want to use pink noise. The Helix doesn't have a signal generator does it? I'm redoing my whole car and haven't had a chance to check out the new software yet.


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## subterFUSE

REW is free and has a noise generator. You can export noise as WAV from it, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndm

New update as of 4-17-15

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH

Version	Description
3.11b
public beta release
Loading of afp-files from DSP PC-Tool V2 is now enabled. The loading file screen shows now an option to choose the file extension in the lower right edge. The actual version transfers the following adjustments: High- and lowpass filter settings, time alignment settings, output level and EQ gain settings. The next software release will also transfer center frequency and Q-factor adjustment of the EQ. Adjustments of the DCM menu will not be supported. It is strongly recommended to check all adjustments after the transfer.
The calculation of high- und lowpass filter has been improved.
Multilanguage support has been implemented. Languages will now be added frequently and can be selected in the top right corner of the launcher.
Several bug fixes for 56 Bit devices have been implemented.


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> New update as of 4-17-15
> 
> PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> Version	Description
> 3.11b
> public beta release
> Loading of afp-files from DSP PC-Tool V2 is now enabled. The loading file screen shows now an option to choose the file extension in the lower right edge. The actual version transfers the following adjustments: High- and lowpass filter settings, time alignment settings, output level and EQ gain settings. The next software release will also transfer center frequency and Q-factor adjustment of the EQ. Adjustments of the DCM menu will not be supported. It is strongly recommended to check all adjustments after the transfer.
> The calculation of high- und lowpass filter has been improved.
> Multilanguage support has been implemented. Languages will now be added frequently and can be selected in the top right corner of the launcher.
> Several bug fixes for 56 Bit devices have been implemented.


Yup. Been running it for a few days now.
Nothing different in my case, but I'm just glad they keep improving.


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> Yup. Been running it for a few days now.
> Nothing different in my case, but I'm just glad they keep improving.


Yeah, these guys have really impressed me. It would be one thing if there was broken stuff that they are continually fixing but they are actively making improvements and that is very cool. 

The thing I like is that they are supporting older product too. Many companies do not keep up with stuff like this.


----------



## icruze

Am a complete noob and my question is this. I have ordered a dsp pro and am gonna use a jvc Hu via optical.. It says in the manual that dsp pro cannot read mo3 and that's a problem for me as most of my library is high bitrate mp3 ripped from master source...

Am from India a few of the older albums are not available in cds..

Could anyone please helpe if MP3 can actually played from the digital inputs? 
Thanks a lot in.advance


----------



## beemarman

icruze said:


> Am a complete noob and my question is this. I have ordered a dsp pro and am gonna use a jvc Hu via optical.. It says in the manual that dsp pro cannot read mo3 and that's a problem for me as most of my library is high bitrate mp3 ripped from master source...
> 
> Am from India a few of the older albums are not available in cds..
> 
> Could anyone please helpe if MP3 can actually played from the digital inputs?
> Thanks a lot in.advance


It can 100% play Mp3 files. It would be crazy if it couldn't:laugh:


----------



## Babs

icruze said:


> Am a complete noob and my question is this. I have ordered a dsp pro and am gonna use a jvc Hu via optical.. It says in the manual that dsp pro cannot read mo3 and that's a problem for me as most of my library is high bitrate mp3 ripped from master source...
> 
> Am from India a few of the older albums are not available in cds..
> 
> Could anyone please helpe if MP3 can actually played from the digital inputs?
> Thanks a lot in.advance


I'm going out on a limb and guess, your JVC head unit will convert whatever it reads, be it CD, MP3, any other format it can read, to straight digital PCM signal to transfer via optical output. How nice you have optical output.

*Beware* you *MUST* use the DSP remote controller for volume control.. No volume information is carried via optical unless you're head unit specifies that it will control it's optical output volume prior to sending out. If not controlled by the head unit, or by the Helix remote, expect something loud and damaging to happen should you blare optical through your DSP without volume control. Just word of caution.


----------



## Babs

ndm said:


> Yeah, these guys have really impressed me. It would be one thing if there was broken stuff that they are continually fixing but they are actively making improvements and that is very cool.
> 
> The thing I like is that they are supporting older product too. Many companies do not keep up with stuff like this.


Curious.. Should I have seen some kind of firmware download from the tool to the DSP at boot up? Can't recall from when I did the last one.. I thought it did an update that looked something like when you save your tune to the unit with the status bar.


----------



## subterFUSE

icruze said:


> Am a complete noob and my question is this. I have ordered a dsp pro and am gonna use a jvc Hu via optical.. It says in the manual that dsp pro cannot read mo3 and that's a problem for me as most of my library is high bitrate mp3 ripped from master source...
> 
> Am from India a few of the older albums are not available in cds..
> 
> Could anyone please helpe if MP3 can actually played from the digital inputs?
> Thanks a lot in.advance


The Helix DSP Pro digital inputs can accept stereo SPDIF format, between 12 - 192kHz sample rate

Your source unit must decode the MP3 file and send the audio downstream. This is the default operation for most source units, so I think you will be fine with the DSP Pro.


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> I'm going out on a limb and guess, your JVC head unit will convert whatever it reads, be it CD, MP3, any other format it can read, to straight digital PCM signal to transfer via optical output. How nice you have optical output.
> 
> *Beware* you *MUST* use the DSP remote controller for volume control.. No volume information is carried via optical unless you're head unit specifies that it will control it's optical output volume prior to sending out. If not controlled by the head unit, or by the Helix remote, expect something loud and damaging to happen should you blare optical through your DSP without volume control. Just word of caution.



This is correct, most source units will decode the Mp3 file and send stereo audio downstream.

You also brought up a *really good* point about the possible need for a volume controller. If the source unit does not embed digital volume into the audio signal, then the DSP absolutely requires a remote controller.

The URC-2A will be needed, at minimum.

The new Director controller would be an optional upgrade over the URC-2A.


----------



## SPAZ

For the RTA function what house curve are you guys running?


----------



## icruze

Thanks a lot for all the response guys..yes I will be using the Urc2a remote and upgrade once the director is released.
This Hu is a 2013 model that my friend was able to spot BNiB from a store which could not sell..


----------



## SPAZ

I'm getting a weird sound every time I start my car and my head unit loads. It is not a pop but it is like music playing for a split second then it goes away and after it loads I am totally fine. I know it is the DSP because when I do not have it attached I get no sound at all. By any chance can someone provide support's email address? Please PM me. Thank you


----------



## nanohead

SPAZ said:


> I'm getting a weird sound every time I start my car and my head unit loads. It is not a pop but it is like music playing for a split second then it goes away and after it loads I am totally fine. I know it is the DSP because when I do not have it attached I get no sound at all. By any chance can someone provide support's email address? Please PM me. Thank you


Exact same thing happens to me. I suspect its because I have 1 remote turn on wire going to it, rather than the main one going to it and the amps using the remote out on the DSP. 

Curious if the remote out has a delay on it like some devices do 

The book says "Always use this remote output signal to turn on the amplifiers in order to avoid on/off switching noises." Mine is the last on the chain, rather than the first.

so I guess I answered my own question


----------



## subterFUSE

nanohead said:


> Exact same thing happens to me. I suspect its because I have 1 remote turn on wire going to it, rather than the main one going to it and the amps using the remote out on the DSP.
> 
> Curious if the remote out has a delay on it like some devices do
> 
> The book says "Always use this remote output signal to turn on the amplifiers in order to avoid on/off switching noises." Mine is the last on the chain, rather than the first.
> 
> so I guess I answered my own question



DSP Pro remote out does have a turn on delay, and also has a feature called "Power Save."

Power save allows you to set a timer. If there is no audio playing the timer starts. When the timer ends, the amps are turned off to save power.

I definitely suggest running the amp remote wires off the DSP remote out.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SPAZ

nanohead said:


> Exact same thing happens to me. I suspect its because I have 1 remote turn on wire going to it, rather than the main one going to it and the amps using the remote out on the DSP.
> 
> Curious if the remote out has a delay on it like some devices do
> 
> The book says "Always use this remote output signal to turn on the amplifiers in order to avoid on/off switching noises." Mine is the last on the chain, rather than the first.
> 
> so I guess I answered my own question


The way I have it set up right now is the remote wire coming from the head unit is split 3 ways going to the dsp's and also the 2 amps. Are you suggesting I have the remote wire go direct to dsp then split to the two amps?


----------



## subterFUSE

SPAZ said:


> The way I have it set up right now is the remote wire coming from the head unit is split 3 ways going to the dsp's and also the 2 amps. Are you suggesting I have the remote wire go direct to dsp then split to the two amps?



Remote out from Head Unit, in to DSP.
DSP remote out to amps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SPAZ

subterFUSE said:


> Remote out from Head Unit, in to DSP.
> DSP remote out to amps.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I will try to make the change tomorrow.


----------



## ndm

Babs said:


> Curious.. Should I have seen some kind of firmware download from the tool to the DSP at boot up? Can't recall from when I did the last one.. I thought it did an update that looked something like when you save your tune to the unit with the status bar.


Hmm?? I do not know. I did see a message after a couple of the software updates. I just do not think that I see .............

Wait.....

I believe that I only see the message when I am connected via the usb. That is for the actual unit firmware. Now I do not think that the software gives you a heads up when there is an update though. I have never seen that. I just check the website every now and then.


----------



## Bboy74

Just had email confirmation from helix the DRC will be available from end of may!!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Bboy74 said:


> Just had email confirmation from helix the DRC will be available from end of may!!


From the end of May????

By the end of May???


----------



## nineball76

Just got mine yesterday. Should have it installed in... 6 months


----------



## Bboy74

Dear Mr. B,



the " Director" will be available end of May.



Best regards



Jutta Sommer



AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH

Hünegräben 26

D-57392 Schmallenberg



Tel.: 02972 9788 0


----------



## SPAZ

subterFUSE said:


> Remote out from Head Unit, in to DSP.
> DSP remote out to amps.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just wanted to let you know that I made the change and it worked! Thanks!


----------



## subterFUSE

SPAZ said:


> Just wanted to let you know that I made the change and it worked! Thanks!


Anytime.


----------



## hdrugs

does this mean 4 way front stage?


----------



## SPAZ

Does the DSP Pro have any type of clipping protection?


----------



## subterFUSE

SPAZ said:


> Does the DSP Pro have any type of clipping protection?


There is a clipping indicator LED light which is useful for setting the input gains. But there is no active clipping "protection."


----------



## Marky

Who is going to be selling the director?
I bought my DSP Pro at Crutchfields and they don't have much for acc.

I bought a Helix MTK1 there too on back order. I hope this is what I need for it. 
Any info is appreciated. 
Mark


----------



## subterFUSE

Marky said:


> Who is going to be selling the director?
> I bought my DSP Pro at Crutchfields and they don't have much for acc.
> 
> I bought a Helix MTK1 there too on back order. I hope this is what I need for it.
> Any info is appreciated.
> Mark



There is no release date yet for the Director.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

subterFUSE said:


> There is no release date yet for the Director.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



according to Audiotec Fisher, it will be available end of May.


----------



## subterFUSE

miniSQ said:


> according to Audiotec Fisher, it will be available end of May.



According to the rep for AF, that's not true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

subterFUSE said:


> According to the rep for AF, that's not true.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


FML


----------



## Sonic525

Say it aint so. I have been waiting for the director to be released. Boooo. Want to finish my install and get too tuning.


----------



## miniSQ

Sonic525 said:


> Say it aint so. I have been waiting for the director to be released. Boooo. Want to finish my install and get too tuning.


i am ready too...i want to go direct into the Helix via optical and i dont have a controller.


----------



## Babs

miniSQ said:


> i am ready too...i want to go direct into the Helix via optical and i dont have a controller.



If, you're using an iDevice into Aiport Express to feed wifi lossless into the Helix, you may not need any controller.. The device can control the volume sent from the Aiport express I think. Even via toslink between the AE and Helix. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

Babs said:


> If, you're using an iDevice into Aiport Express to feed wifi lossless into the Helix, you may not need any controller.. The device can control the volume sent from the Aiport express I think. Even via toslink between the AE and Helix.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


i am using iPad into Pure i20 into Helix via toslink. I have not tried it yet...but i have all the parts now.


----------



## subterFUSE

miniSQ said:


> i am using iPad into Pure i20 into Helix via toslink. I have not tried it yet...but i have all the parts now.


Give it a try.

If the i20 sends volume information encoded in the digital signal, then you won't need a volume controller for the DSP.


----------



## lashlee

I'm on the fence about getting a DSP pro and tried out the software on my Surface Pro 3, but can't seem to get it open up full screen. I've played with resolution and font but all I get is something so small it won't even show all of the available adjustments. What resolution are you guys using? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## miniSQ

lashlee said:


> I'm on the fence about getting a DSP pro and tried out the software on my Surface Pro 3, but can't seem to get it open up full screen. I've played with resolution and font but all I get is something so small it won't even show all of the available adjustments. What resolution are you guys using?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


the software will not run full screen on any device i don't believe. I am running a 15" laptop so not really a comparison to you, but its running 1366x768.

I tried it on a 10" tablet and it was way to small to be usable for me. 12" i think would be minimum.


----------



## subterFUSE

I am running the DSP Pro software on my Asus Transformer Book 11" tablet/laptop.

The DSP Pro software does not have a "full screen" option, or a maximize button. It must be used in a window.

The window is very slightly taller than my 11" screen can display without cutting off just a tiny bit at the top or bottom. We are talking about only the title bar being cut off slightly. The window is 100% useable, but I belive my screen must be the absolute minimum required. My screen resolution is 1368 x 768.

The only thing I had to do was turn on the Dock/Taskbar Hiding. But I am a Mac guy, and I use that feature on my Macs anyway so it doesn't bother me at all.

Here is a print screen from my Asus laptop:


----------



## SPAZ

I have a high DPI laptop so the key is to go in control panel then display and make sure to change size for all items to the default smaller icons (100%). The application is unfortunately not high DPI friendly.


----------



## t3sn4f2

subterFUSE said:


> Give it a try.
> 
> If the i20 sends volume information encoded in the digital signal, then you won't need a volume controller for the DSP.


It does but I would not use it though. See link below.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1723719-post697.html


----------



## SPLEclipse

Can anyone confirm that the v3 software works with the P-DSP? I've been unsuccessful in getting it to work; I only get the demo version when I try to connect for the update.


----------



## lashlee

Thanks guys! My Surface has a native resolution of 2160x1440 and everything is jumbled together. I'll see if I can drop it down that far to see if that helps.


----------



## lashlee

This stinks! I've tried 1366x768 and changed the font size with no luck. Would it be related to the use of the software in demo mode? Going to a large font size helps, but as an example the screen shows "Output A" except the A is cut off where the lower leg meets the crossbar and under it says "Front L Fu"


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Its amazing to see the response of such a processor. The brand continues to keep pushing the updates and efforts to keep their users happy. Now they just to release that director remote and all will be well.


----------



## piyush7243

lashlee said:


> This stinks! I've tried 1366x768 and changed the font size with no luck. Would it be related to the use of the software in demo mode? Going to a large font size helps, but as an example the screen shows "Output A" except the A is cut off where the lower leg meets the crossbar and under it says "Front L Fu"


Its like that in connect mode as well n can be a small pain at times


----------



## narvarr

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Its amazing to see the response of such a processor. The brand continues to keep pushing the updates and efforts to keep their users happy. Now they just to release that director remote and all will be well.


If that were the case, they would have included the C-DSP in the update list like they promised a couple years ago.


----------



## miniSQ

narvarr said:


> If that were the case, they would have included the C-DSP in the update list like they promised a couple years ago.


They promised? How could they promise before the new software was even done? Even apple doesn't promise.


----------



## narvarr

miniSQ said:


> They promised? How could they promise before the new software was even done? Even apple doesn't promise.


I have the emails to prove it. The 3.xx software was supposed to come out in September of 2013 to add finer resolution to the EQ, and fix some other issues that were know about with the C-DSP and the Helix DSP. I emailed them after the third revision of the 3.xx software came out to see when the C-DSP would get updated...They said it wouldn't. I forwarded them a copy of the email where they said it would be updated and got no further response from them.
Julian Fischer himself was the person who sent the email stating that the C-DSP would be updated to 3.xx.


----------



## SPLEclipse

SPLEclipse said:


> Can anyone confirm that the v3 software works with the P-DSP? I've been unsuccessful in getting it to work; I only get the demo version when I try to connect for the update.


I just received an email back from A-F confirming that the P-DSP is not compatible with the v3 software. Oh well.


----------



## Sonic525

Any new updates on the Director remote? Was hoping for the May release but that didn't happen. sad so sad.


----------



## subterFUSE

Sonic525 said:


> Any new updates on the Director remote? Was hoping for the May release but that didn't happen. sad so sad.



No word yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

narvarr said:


> I have the emails to prove it. The 3.xx software was supposed to come out in September of 2013 to add finer resolution to the EQ, and fix some other issues that were know about with the C-DSP and the Helix DSP. I emailed them after the third revision of the 3.xx software came out to see when the C-DSP would get updated...They said it wouldn't. I forwarded them a copy of the email where they said it would be updated and got no further response from them.
> Julian Fischer himself was the person who sent the email stating that the C-DSP would be updated to 3.xx.


CDSP to 3.xx isn't going to happen...I have 20 + emails back and forth with Julian F. and the CDSP is a $1300 brick in my eyes with version 2.80. Even after sending the unit back on my dime, it's sill does the same crap.


----------



## 2DEEP2

Sonic525 said:


> Any new updates on the Director remote? Was hoping for the May release but that didn't happen. sad so sad.


Still in testing.


----------



## lizardking

Does the DSP Tool work on Windows 8?


----------



## subterFUSE

lizardking said:


> Does the DSP Tool work on Windows 8?



Yes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lizardking

When using REW do you set the bit rate and sampling rate to 24 bit @ 48k or 16 bit at 44.1k?


----------



## subterFUSE

I use 48k on mine. Never seen an option for bit depth. 16 should be fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lizardking

subterFUSE said:


> I use 48k on mine. Never seen an option for bit depth. 16 should be fine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks,


----------



## Marky

Well I did finally receive my MTK 1 from Crutchfields yesterday. Only took a little over 2 months but happy to see it none the less. 
Guess it's time to go ahead and purchase a laptop for getting all of this into the DSP. 

Any more news on the Release date For hand held remote controller?


----------



## subterFUSE

Marky said:


> Any more news on the Release date For hand held remote controller?


You mean the Director?

No news yet.


----------



## Marky

That's not good news, I don't understand what the deal is with Audiotec/Fischer not supporting the DSP Pro. 
No MTK 1 for months, think it's been on back order since January 2015. 
The Director has not been finished or released or whatever. 
Plus I've read about the need for a updated version for windows so the EQ setup can be full screen on the computer. " Too Small " to easily bee seen on laptop. 

Me myself I'm second guessing myself for purchasing the DSP Pro. Might have been wiser to have waited for all the bugs to be worked out and all support items available. 

Time will tell, for me it's a big step from mechanical active crossovers that a quite simple to set up. Nakamichi EC302's are what I used on last sound system for my truck.


----------



## teldzc1

I think you have it wrong. Aside from the Director coming late, I think Helix has been on point. They support nearly all of their previous dsp with the latest software versions and the software is among the most advanced. 

Developing a high level product is hard work. Especially software for a company that's not a software company. It's not perfect, but it's still an amazing product. I'm only on the non-pro but the software is excellent.


----------



## subterFUSE

Audiotec Fischer has been absolutely top notch in their support efforts, IMO. These guys really do listen to their customers and make efforts to incorporate their suggestions.

They are consistently making improvements to the software. For example:

I personally sent them an email with a feature suggestion, and in less than 2 weeks they implemented it in the software.

Customers asked for non-Helix brand microphone support in the RTA mode, and they delivered within a month. Now you can add your own mic calibration files.

That's awesome customer service in my book!


Since the DSP Pro launched they have also launched the HEC modules, which were on time as promised. The only delay has been with the Director controller. Hopefully we will see that in the near future.


The bottom line is that the DSP Pro is the most powerful DSP product in the car audio market right now. It has the most intuitive software interface, the highest precision in adjustments, and some features the no one else on the market has (like phase angle adjustment, .01ms TA steps, RTA mode with option to use your own mic, Freely adjustable crossovers (Fr, Slope & Q).


----------



## PiastXD

the release of the remote controller will be next month here in germany.
A friend has one for tests together with the p-six and it works really well. Price is about 200-250 Euro i think.
sorry for my bad english.

best wishes from germany!


----------



## teldzc1

Really hope this is true!


----------



## PiastXD

just the prototype. it wont be black i think. 
it will be brushed aluminium, if my infos are right


the connection cable:


----------



## subterFUSE

I hope it's smaller than that. I need it to fit in my ashtray cubby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PiastXD

I Dont think so.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G900F


----------



## teldzc1

Could you post larger pics? 

I hope the cable is long enough to reach from the cabin to the trunk.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

subterFUSE said:


> I hope it's smaller than that. I need it to fit in my ashtray cubby.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It can be removed from the housing and is a good bit smaller then. Plug and USB are on the side though.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

teldzc1 said:


> Could you post larger pics?
> 
> I hope the cable is long enough to reach from the cabin to the trunk.


The cable is quite long, at least 5m.


----------



## teldzc1

6spdcoupe said:


> It can be removed from the housing and is a good bit smaller then. Plug and USB are on the side though.


Oh interesting. So can the knob and display be mounted separately?


----------



## 6spdcoupe

teldzc1 said:


> Oh interesting. So can the knob and display be mounted separately?


No, but the unit can be removed from the housing (including the knob) and made a bit smaller.


----------



## PiastXD

[/url][/IMG]


----------



## PiastXD

teldzc1 said:


> Could you post larger pics?
> 
> I hope the cable is long enough to reach from the cabin to the trunk.


j
just click the pics!

best wishes
Stefan


----------



## themad

So... the Director seems to be available in Germany? 199 Euros.

Helix Director Remote Control | Helix DSP | DSP | Zenec und CarHifi-Store Buende

Disclaimer: I have not bought from this site and I do not recommend doing it before checking if it is legit.


----------



## subterFUSE

Giggity.


----------



## miniSQ

themad said:


> So... the Director seems to be available in Germany? 199 Euros.
> 
> Helix Director Remote Control | Helix DSP | DSP | Zenec und CarHifi-Store Buende


i don't know if that is a legit site or not, but the pictures seem a little sloppy to me. Doesn't seem like they are official product photos.


----------



## themad

miniSQ said:


> i don't know if that is a legit site or not, but the pictures seem a little sloppy to me. Doesn't seem like they are official product photos.


Yes, I agree.

Important to say I am not recommending the site, just saying it has been spotted online.
BTW, I'll edit my original post to make it clear.


----------



## mathematics

you mad, bro? 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/U4GQfCPScxk


----------



## themad

mathematics said:


> you mad, bro?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/embed/U4GQfCPScxk


I am even more now, after this video...


----------



## teldzc1

Never doubted Helix to come through!


----------



## bbfoto

I'm glad that it seems as if the Director Controller is real and will be available soon.

But unfortunately, as I suspected, that Display Screen and Graphics/UI looks like something from the 1990's. And a TINY Touch-Screen in a Car??? Seriously? I posted about all of this before, but what size is that horrible 1-byte font on each "button" in the display? The Volume Level indicator isn't easily legible, and that is while viewing the display with an extreme close-up photo  Will it be usable in bright sunlight is my next question?

I hate to be hater, but IMHO the Alpine RUX-C701 is WAY more ergonomically useful than this, and it's from 2005.

I honestly would've preferred to have an iOS or Android app in place of this Director Remote. ...an app that would utilize the Bluetooth HEC Module connectivity. That would have eliminated any additional hardware designing/manufacturing and associated costs and delays, and software/apps are always update-able.

Luckily, it does look as if you would be able to remove the Volume/Controller Potentiometer from the PCB and wire it separately in a remote location if needed. But we'll have to wait and see to be sure. Maybe it's just me, but I was hoping for something substantially better than what this Director ended up being.


----------



## mathematics

bbfoto said:


> I'm glad that it seems as if the Director Controller is real and will be available soon.
> 
> But unfortunately, as I suspected, that Display Screen and Graphics/UI looks like something from the 1990's. And a TINY Touch-Screen in a Car??? Seriously? I posted about all of this before, but what size is that horrible 1-byte font on each "button" in the display? The Volume Level indicator isn't easily legible, and that is while viewing the display with an extreme close-up photo  Will it be usable in bright sunlight is my next question?
> 
> I hate to be hater, but IMHO the Alpine RUX-C701 is WAY more ergonomically useful than this, and it's from 2005.
> 
> I honestly would've preferred to have an iOS or Android app in place of this Director Remote. ...an app that would utilize the Bluetooth HEC Module connectivity. That would have eliminated any additional hardware designing/manufacturing and associated costs and delays, and software/apps are always update-able.
> 
> Luckily, it does look as if you would be able to remove the Volume/Controller Potentiometer from the PCB and wire it separately in a remote location if needed. But we'll have to wait and see to be sure. Maybe it's just me, but I was hoping for something substantially better than what this Director ended up being.


Lol enjoy the alpine then. Ignorance is bliss


----------



## thebookfreak58

bbfoto said:


> I'm glad that it seems as if the Director Controller is real and will be available soon.
> 
> But unfortunately, as I suspected, that Display Screen and Graphics/UI looks like something from the 1990's. And a TINY Touch-Screen in a Car??? Seriously? I posted about all of this before, but what size is that horrible 1-byte font on each "button" in the display? The Volume Level indicator isn't easily legible, and that is while viewing the display with an extreme close-up photo  Will it be usable in bright sunlight is my next question?
> 
> I hate to be hater, but IMHO the Alpine RUX-C701 is WAY more ergonomically useful than this, and it's from 2005.
> 
> I honestly would've preferred to have an iOS or Android app in place of this Director Remote. ...an app that would utilize the Bluetooth HEC Module connectivity. That would have eliminated any additional hardware designing/manufacturing and associated costs and delays, and software/apps are always update-able.
> 
> Luckily, it does look as if you would be able to remove the Volume/Controller Potentiometer from the PCB and wire it separately in a remote location if needed. But we'll have to wait and see to be sure. Maybe it's just me, but I was hoping for something substantially better than what this Director ended up being.


Agreed.

Shame they didnt use the BT a la Rainbow/Mosconi.

However, good that it can be pulled apart.


----------



## bbfoto

bbfoto said:


> I'm glad that it seems as if the Director Controller is real and will be available soon.
> 
> But unfortunately, as I suspected, that Display Screen and Graphics/UI looks like something from the 1990's. And a TINY Touch-Screen in a Car??? Seriously? I posted about all of this before, but what size is that horrible 1-byte font on each "button" in the display? The Volume Level indicator isn't easily legible, and that is while viewing the display with an extreme close-up photo  Will it be usable in bright sunlight is my next question?
> 
> I hate to be hater, but IMHO the Alpine RUX-C701 is WAY more ergonomically useful than this, and it's from 2005.
> 
> I honestly would've preferred to have an iOS or Android app in place of this Director Remote. ...an app that would utilize the Bluetooth HEC Module connectivity. That would have eliminated any additional hardware designing/manufacturing and associated costs and delays, and software/apps are always update-able. A scale-able PC UI (compatible with different display resolutions) would be a welcome addition to the tuning software as well.
> 
> Luckily, it does look as if you would be able to remove the Volume/Controller Potentiometer from the PCB and wire it separately in a remote location if needed. But we'll have to wait and see to be sure. Maybe it's just me, but I was hoping for something substantially better than what this Director ended up being.





mathematics said:


> Lol enjoy the alpine then. Ignorance is bliss


I enjoyed using the Alpine for many years. It was a great system in its day, and I'm sure many users are still enjoying them. However, I am no longer using that setup. But from what I can discern of the Helix's Director Remote, the RUX-C701/800 controllers are an infinitely better design for in-vehicle use.

I have owned and used many different processors and sources over the years, and am currently using the DSP PRO with a modified URC-2A in one of my vehicles. The DSP PRO is an incredible processor, and the best car audio-specific DSP that I've used to date, but you have to admit that the URC-2A, and now the Director Remote, are sub par implementations if you compare to nearly any modern electronic device/smartphone UI or OEM automaker ICE UI.

It's just my opinion, so I won't regurgitate my reasoning since I've already posted quite a few pages back what would have made the Director Remote a more usable, logical, and worthy match for this processor.

FWIW, the ONLY reason that I want to use the Director Remote is because I would really like to have more than 2 quick-recall memory presets.  I'd much rather have an Android app to do all of this + tuning/adjustments since I'm already using a Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 3G Phone/Tablet as my source in the dash. I'm sure many others would be even more interested in using an iPad Air or iPad Mini.

A scale-able or multi-resolution UI for the PC tuning software would be a welcome addition as well.


----------



## benetton

new user here, 
I tried to search but didn't find any info, just installed the Helix Dsp pro and have a slight problem, I did send the manufacturer a email but was hoping someone could help


Whenever it is powered on, i'm getting a quick buzz,noise from all my speakers, i have isolated that it is the dsp unit, first i disconnected the input rca's still had the noise, then i disconnect the rca inputs at the amplifiers and there is no noise, so its not coming from the amps themselves when they turn on. never have any noise before the Helix was installed


----------



## t3sn4f2

benetton said:


> new user here,
> I tried to search but didn't find any info, just installed the Helix Dsp pro and have a slight problem, I did send the manufacturer a email but was hoping someone could help
> 
> 
> Whenever it is powered on, i'm getting a quick buzz,noise from all my speakers, i have isolated that it is the dsp unit, first i disconnected the input rca's still had the noise, then i disconnect the rca inputs at the amplifiers and there is no noise, so its not coming from the amps themselves when they turn on. never have any noise before the Helix was installed


edit: nevermind, read wrong


----------



## BKLYNG

has anybody useed the p six dsp and the p 62c 6.5 and what r the crossover frequency and slopes on and off axis


----------



## Hipps2000

Just pre-ordered my helix director remote. Should be here in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Marky

Cool, who did you pre-order through ?


----------



## Hipps2000

My buddy James is a dealer. Excellent service and very knowledgable, he has 25 pre-ordered from Helix, I got number 22, so if you want one email him.
tech12volt @ gmail.com. Tell him hipps sent ya


----------



## lizardking

Did anyone upgrade to Windows 10 yet? Helix software working?


----------



## lashlee

Has anyone downloaded the new 3.15a software that was released this morning? I'm at work today without my laptop and can't see what's new. I'm sure it has to do with the Director.


----------



## chithead

I'll try it real quick and let you know


----------



## chithead

Yes, looks like it has to do with the Director. Upon running the program now, it asks which tune you want to load. Has the normal 1 and 2 for the DSP, then shows 18 others listed as Director.


----------



## lashlee

Cool. Thanks!


----------



## SPAZ

Surprised there's no description for the update. I'll give it a shot sometime today. I'm already on Windows 10 so I will test that too.


----------



## chithead

Windows 10 for me, and the demo loaded up fine. Haven't had a chance to connect to the P Six yet and test it. There was a secondary update that looked like it installed some new firmware too though...


----------



## davewpy

Did anyone bother with impedance matching the head unit output with helix input?

Having a laterally moving 8khz 0db sine wave on the oscilloscope.

Yes the atf pc-tool works on win10.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Did anyone bother with impedance matching the head unit output with helix input?
> 
> Having a laterally moving 8khz 0db sine wave on the oscilloscope.
> 
> Yes the atf pc-tool works on win10.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



Not me. I'm running both sources via optical. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Guest

This might have been answered... but... 

Will the Helix DSP software operate on an Apple OSX ?

Thanks


----------



## subterFUSE

SQ_TSX said:


> This might have been answered... but...
> 
> 
> 
> Will the Helix DSP software operate on an Apple OSX ?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks



Not on OSX directly, but boot camp will work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Guest

About to show my ignorance.... Boot Camp ?


----------



## subterFUSE

Boot Camp is a way to install Windows on an Apple machine. It creates a partition on the hard drive for Windows and allows you to choose at startup which OS to load.

The other method to run Windows on a Mac is called Virtual Machine. This lets Windows run simultaneously within Mac OSX, but hardware devices like the Helix Pro don't usually work in a VM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Guest

Thank you good sir...


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Boot Camp is a way to install Windows on an Apple machine. It creates a partition on the hard drive for Windows and allows you to choose at startup which OS to load.
> 
> The other method to run Windows on a Mac is called Virtual Machine. This lets Windows run simultaneously within Mac OSX, but hardware devices like the Helix Pro don't usually work in a VM.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My one gripe with the AF. They won't play with iOS either. Wish they did a version of the tool for iOS. Makes me wish I had some cheap but adequate Win tablet that would successfully do the job, just so I can hold the thing infront of me instead of breaking my neck looking at a laptop in the passenger seat.


----------



## miniSQ

Babs said:


> My one gripe with the AF. They won't play with iOS either. Wish they did a version of the tool for iOS. Makes me wish I had some cheap but adequate Win tablet that would successfully do the job, just so I can hold the thing infront of me instead of breaking my neck looking at a laptop in the passenger seat.


i agree with this in theory. Using a laptop is really clunky, but i tried it with a tablet and it was too small to be effective.


----------



## subterFUSE

I'm using an Asus Transformer book.

It's a laptop/tablet hybrid. Works great. The screen is all multi-touch, but also has a keyboard.

I use the touch screen to control the big buttons like MUTE, while using the keyboard for the detailed stuff like TA adjustment and EQ.


----------



## Guest

I have a little Dell 3-in-1 that will be perfect for tuning duty...

Keep the MacBook for the home PC


----------



## Babs

I've got a rather big old Dell Vostro 3550 with a 15" screen and heavy for a laptop. It works pretty great after I finally took Chad's advice and put an SSD in it, and the resolution is just enough to show the tool fully.

I'm considering trying to rig some kind of cute stand of some kind to prop it up over the gear shift so it's out of the path from the drivers and also more straight ahead. With an external mouse it'd be great. Only issue there would be obstruction to the head unit, but pretty much with the tool and REW, once you set volume for tuning there's not much there to mess with.

I have the itch to re-do crossovers to 24db slopes, then totally re-measure and set EQ trims for all drivers. After swapping to PDX amps, I imagine she'll measure quite differently. 

Then save a post-driver-only EQ file, then do a L/R Paired and top-down Grouped EQ file (the final tune). That way if I do anything in terms of phase or TA, the individual EQ'd drivers won't need to change, only the pairs, or groups. Theory being individual driver EQ trims are T/A and phase agnostic. Looks good on paper, right?


----------



## Sonic525

Ran into a little problem. The system just shut down on me. I preformed a check and found the REMOTE Out wires is only outputting .06v and not turning on my amps. I do not have a remote in wire hooked up as it is running on High level inputs and has been working perfectly until now. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Thank you all in advance.


----------



## bradknob

Sonic525 said:


> Ran into a little problem. The system just shut down on me. I preformed a check and found the REMOTE Out wires is only outputting .06v and not turning on my amps. I do not have a remote in wire hooked up as it is running on High level inputs and has been working perfectly until now. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Thank you all in advance.



I had the exact issue with my regular helix DSP, the only option I could come up with was a low voltage relay.... Although mine was putting out 1.4 volts... Ultimately I decided against the ghetto rigged hassle and helix warrantied it with no problem.


----------



## Sonic525

Ohh no. Hope that is not the case here.


----------



## davewpy

Did you recently upgrade your helix DSP software?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## mclaren1885

Running the Helix DSP Pro SW via Parallels on my MBP15 and works perfectly fine.


----------



## subterFUSE

mclaren1885 said:


> Running the Helix DSP Pro SW via Parallels on my MBP15 and works perfectly fine.



While connected to the DSP?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mclaren1885

subterFUSE said:


> While connected to the DSP?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, works just fine. Been using it to tune the DSP for a couple of months now.


----------



## subterFUSE

Kick ass. MacBook Air, here I come.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## piyush7243

subterFUSE said:


> Kick ass. MacBook Air, here I come.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I also run it via parallels on MBP,.there are certain glitches where the software stops communicating with the dsp and preset loading is finicky but all in all it works must of the time.

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound

mclaren1885 said:


> Running the Helix DSP Pro SW via Parallels on my MBP15 and works perfectly fine.



You are using the Mac air with a partition on the hard drive for windows?


----------



## WeDgE

I couldn't get the Helix software to play nice while connected to the DSP in Parallels. Ended up going the Boot Camp route and it's been great on my MBP13!

Just finished my first full tuning session tonight using REW... killer!


----------



## mclaren1885

Huckleberry Sound said:


> You are using the Mac air with a partition on the hard drive for windows?


Macbook Pro 15, not the Air. Parallels creates a virtual drive and you can run Mac OS and Windows simultaneously. 










Above is a screenshot of me running MAC OS along with Windows and running the Rainbow DSP app on Windows. Switching between both OS is a breeze. Yes, it's not as stable as running two separate boot partitions. But this suffices my needs.

Like Piyush mentioned it does act weird at times. But that holds true for nearly all other DSP SW as well.

The most stable DSP SW I've seen on Parallels is Mosconi. I've had a few drop outs on the others, with the most annoying being Audison & RF SW. 

I've used MBP to tune the following DSP with some patience thrown in via parallels:

1. RF 3Sixty.3
2. Mosconi D2 100.4 & 80.6
3. Mosconi 4to6 and 6to8. 
4. Helix DSP Pro. 
5. Audison Bit 1 and Bit 10.
6. Rainbow DSP 1.8

Will be trying out the Alpine DSP very soon.


----------



## davewpy

Discovered that my X008 isn't sending accurate analog signals out from the 4V pre-amp - for e.g., left and right voltage is too far apart and the sine wave on the oscilloscope is moving laterally with distortion.

I'm going pure digital.

As Alpine outputs digital (via toslink), navigation guide voices (via RCA pre-outs), what should my DSP pro IO configuration be?

There are 3 tabs, Main, AUX/HEC and Digital. Should I just configure the matrix to be the same for Main and Digital? What's the difference between Main and Digital tabs - when I can just use the Digital inputs at the Main tab?


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Discovered that my X008 isn't sending accurate analog signals out from the 4V pre-amp - for e.g., left and right voltage is too far apart and the sine wave on the oscilloscope is moving laterally with distortion.
> 
> I'm going pure digital.
> 
> As Alpine outputs digital (via toslink), navigation guide voices (via RCA pre-outs), what should my DSP pro IO configuration be?
> 
> There are 3 tabs, Main, AUX/HEC and Digital. Should I just configure the matrix to be the same for Main and Digital? What's the difference between Main and Digital tabs - when I can just use the Digital inputs at the Main tab?



Do you have a remote control for the DSP?

How do you want to handle source selection? Manual by switch, or Auto by signal detection?

I can post config settings based on your answers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound

EISA - European Imagine and Sound Association

European In-Car processor 2015 - 2015 - Winner = Helix DSP Pro

https://www.eisa.eu/awards/in-car-electronics/52/european-in-car-processor-2015-2016.html#award


----------



## piyush7243

Huckleberry Sound said:


> EISA - European Imagine and Sound Association
> 
> European In-Car processor 2015 - 2015 - Winner = Helix DSP Pro
> 
> https://www.eisa.eu/awards/in-car-electronics/52/european-in-car-processor-2015-2016.html#award


Well deserved

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE

Huckleberry Sound said:


> EISA - European Imagine and Sound Association
> 
> European In-Car processor 2015 - 2015 - Winner = Helix DSP Pro
> 
> https://www.eisa.eu/awards/in-car-electronics/52/european-in-car-processor-2015-2016.html#award



Best car audio processor on the market. :bowdown:


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## subterFUSE

Software 3.15b now available.

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## SQ Audi

I would love for it to be available in android. I am sure that is a pipedream though


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Software 3.15b now available.
> 
> 
> 
> PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH



I wonder if this new version allows connection to PC with the standard remote attached? That's been a rather PITA on my standard DSP to have to disconnect it in order to connect PC to DSP, then turn it off in DCM menu in order to tune. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> I wonder if this new version allows connection to PC with the standard remote attached? That's been a rather PITA on my standard DSP to have to disconnect it in order to connect PC to DSP, then turn it off in DCM menu in order to tune.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk



Huh?

I have the URC remote and I can tune with PC while it is still connected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Huh?
> 
> I have the URC remote and I can tune with PC while it is still connected.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it might be a regular 8ch DSP thing.


----------



## davewpy

subterFUSE said:


> Do you have a remote control for the DSP?
> 
> How do you want to handle source selection? Manual by switch, or Auto by signal detection?
> 
> I can post config settings based on your answers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I do.

I figured previously that there were 2 ways to manage the routing.

1. Configure input for voice navi in main routing, set digital route as auto switch priority.

2. Configure input for voice navi in AUX as auto switch priority and leave main routing blank.

Guess I would go for approach 1, but I still have no idea what the difference is in terms of source switching, guess I'd just have to play around when the optical cable is in.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm fine with the software. Having someone with a similar setup to share the experience would be fantastic.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

davewpy said:


> Yes I do.
> 
> I figured previously that there were 2 ways to manage the routing.
> 
> 1. Configure input for voice navi in main routing, set digital route as auto switch priority.
> 
> 2. Configure input for voice navi in AUX as auto switch priority and leave main routing blank.
> 
> Guess I would go for approach 1, but I still have no idea what the difference is in terms of source switching, guess I'd just have to play around when the optical cable is in.
> 
> Thanks for the offer, but I'm fine with the software. Having someone with a similar setup to share the experience would be fantastic.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




I actually see your options a little differently. Since you have the remote controller, you can do the following:

First of all, go to I/O Config.

On Main Routing Tab, Assign Digital Left and Digital Right to the desired outputs on the matrix.

On AUX tab, assign AUX L and AUX R to the desired outputs.

Leave Digital Routing tab blank.


Now go to DCM, and you need to make a choice:

Choice 1: Manual source selection via remote controller.

On Extended Features tab, check box for Mode Switch to HEX/Aux In.
On Signal Management tab, check both boxes for Manually via Remote Control. 
AUX Mode = Input G+H
Priority goes to AUX.

This config will require that the button on the remote gets pressed to switch sources.



Choice 2: Auto switch by signal detection

Entended Features tab, Mode Switch to Off or Setup.
Signal Management tab, set to Automatic with AUX has priority.
AUX Mode = G+H
Set release timer to 1s for both.


This method should allow the AUX to mute the main source temporarily to give NAV voice instructions, but then it will release the source after 1 second of silence. You might need to adjust the Sensitivity of the Signal Detection for AUX.


I think the second method sounds a little better.


----------



## lv_v

Anyone fusing the power feed on this? I don't see any mention of it in the manual, or anywhere for that matter.


----------



## lashlee

Mine is fused in the DD5 that is feeding it. It's not necessary to fuse it to protect the DSP, but to protect your car.


----------



## Victor_inox

I`m making 10ch hybrid amplifier to use with DSP pro. about 2Kw of combined power.
that will make installation very easy. Number of channels and power variable by request.


----------



## captainobvious

Any way to integrate steering wheel volume controls with the DSP Pro? I'm going with the Commander unit along with it, but would still like to be ale to use my track and volume controls for ergonomics.

Tap into the URC-2A? Wired connection off the DSP?


----------



## subterFUSE

captainobvious said:


> Any way to integrate steering wheel volume controls with the DSP Pro? I'm going with the Commander unit along with it, but would still like to be ale to use my track and volume controls for ergonomics.
> 
> Tap into the URC-2A? Wired connection off the DSP?



DSP Pro does allow for custom volume controllers. Just ask ErinH, as he was using an ALPS pot as his volume.

I'm not sure, but would think there might be a way to integrate steering wheel controls somehow?


However, I don't think you would have the option of using a custom volume controller along with the Director. Either or scenario, I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

captainobvious said:


> Any way to integrate steering wheel volume controls with the DSP Pro? I'm going with the Commander unit along with it, but would still like to be ale to use my track and volume controls for ergonomics.
> 
> Tap into the URC-2A? Wired connection off the DSP?


I needed the same thing, have to explore getting someone to build an ADC that reads off the can bus to control the volume via urc2a interface.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## beemarman

Ok quick question. 


I have the Audison bit play HD connected via the optional HEC optical module. My oem head unit is connected to an audison bit dmi and this is connected to the optical input of the Helix. I want to be able to automatically mute the sound from the bit play when I get voice commands from my Satnav and then for it to go back to playing my music from the bit play after the voice prompts completes. Any advice?


----------



## subterFUSE

beemarman said:


> Ok quick question.
> 
> 
> I have the Audison bit play HD connected via the optional HEC optical module. My oem head unit is connected to an audison bit dmi and this is connected to the optical input of the Helix. I want to be able to automatically mute the sound from the bit play when I get voice commands from my Satnav and then for it to go back to playing my music from the bit play after the voice prompts completes. Any advice?



Go to the I/O matrix.

In Digital tab, lay out your Digital Left and Right inputs to the correct outputs as desired.

In HEC/AUX tab, do the same with the HEC/AUX inputs.


Next, go to DCM menu, Signal Management tab.

Digital Input section:

Source Selection = Automatic
Priority = Checked
Release Timer = 1s

HEC/AUX Input:

Source Selection = Automatic
AUX Mode = HEC Module
Priority = Unchecked
Release Timer = 1s




This will set the Digital from BitDMI as the Priority. Audio from it will interrupt the HEC module, but then release the input after 1 second of silence.


----------



## BoomHz

So it seems that some have random questions on this unit, so I figured i throw one in.

I have a chance to pick one up authorized for 650. Seem like a good deal? Any reason I shouldn't pull the trigger on this unit? I've been watching it for a while, and am happy about the release of the controller, though I hear of issues. Care to chime in anyone?


----------



## bbfoto

BoomHz said:


> So it seems that some have random questions on this unit, so I figured i throw one in.
> 
> I have a chance to pick one up authorized for 650. Seem like a good deal? Any reason I shouldn't pull the trigger on this unit? I've been watching it for a while, and am happy about the release of the controller, though I hear of issues. Care to chime in anyone?


That's a great deal. This is a solid processor with no major issues.

However:

If you want to use the Digital Inputs, or use the HEC modules that provide for High-Quality Bluetooth Streaming or Additional Digital Optical Inputs + Output, you will need to Purchase those HEC module(s) AND the "Director Remote" control. So check with your dealer and add those to the Total cost. At a minimum you will probably want to add the basic $60 URC-2A remote to the package.

Also, if you don't need 10 Channels, you might get by with another processor. Same if you don't know how to use the advanced features and/or if you are not willing to put in some serious time to learn them. This DSP does not currently have an "Auto-Tune" feature, though it does have a basic RTA (which you will need a calibrated microphone at additional cost in order to use).

There are better measurement tools/software available for Free such as REW (Room EQ Wizard) which are much more powerful).

But, IMHO the Helix DSP PRO is the most feature-rich and powerful Car Audio-specific processor currently available, though it still does lack a convenience feature or two that some other processors have.

You need to read through this thread (and also the Director Remote thread) to determine if this DSP is right for you.


----------



## BoomHz

bbfoto said:


> That's a great deal. This is a solid processor with no major issues.
> 
> However:
> 
> If you want to use the Digital Inputs, or use the HEC modules that provide for High-Quality Bluetooth Streaming or Additional Digital Optical Inputs + Output, you will need to Purchase those HEC module(s) AND the "Director Remote" control. So check with your dealer and add those to the Total cost. At a minimum you will probably want to add the basic $60 URC-2A remote to the package.
> 
> Also, if you don't need 10 Channels, you might get buy with another processor. Same if you don't know how to use the advanced features and/or if you are not willing to put in some serious time to learn them. This DSP does not currently have an "Auto-Tune" feature, though it does have a basic RTA (which you will need a calibrated microphone at additional cost in order to use).
> 
> There are better measurement tools/software available for Free such as REW (Room EQ Wizard) which are much more powerfull).
> 
> But, IMHO the Helix DSP PRO is the most feature-rich and powerful Car Audio-specific processor currently available, though it still does lack a convenience feature or two that some other processors have.
> 
> You need to read through this thread (and also the Director Remote thread) to determine if this DSP is right for you.


I've been keeping up on the reading, and have always been interested in the unit.

So ten channels, definitely fits my bill.

The digital input I'll have to research on, as I've heard there's something questionable about my DRZ's digital output, and I can't seem to get a straight answer.

Auto-tune sucks!!!

Have a full Termpro system that is my love toy......when the woman's away!!

I'd prefer the Director, but the dealer wasn't well informed on the piece. I've read the post on the unit.......though it's been a couple of days since I was over there. Was a little concerned with one poster's unit seeming to be bricked after a software update so........

Other than that as long as this price is unbeatable its looking like I'll be the first Pro owner here


----------



## bbfoto

Cool. I'd say that's close to being the best price you will find.


----------



## subterFUSE

Best price I have seen yet. If it's in your budget, I say hop on it because this is a processor that will serve you well now and in the future. Since the price is almost the same as the regular Helix DSP, I just don't see any reason why not to jump on the Pro.


----------



## subterFUSE

BoomHz said:


> I've been keeping up on the reading, and have always been interested in the unit.
> 
> So ten channels, definitely fits my bill.
> 
> The digital input I'll have to research on, as I've heard there's something questionable about my DRZ's digital output, and I can't seem to get a straight answer.


The big question about digital source units is whether or not they have a variable volume or not. Some digital sources only output at full volume which then requires that the DSP unit have a volume controller.

However, some digital sources have variable volume and when that's the case, a DSP volume controller is optional, not required.




> Auto-tune sucks!!!



I have had my DSP pro for about 6 months now but never tried using the Auto Tune feature until just a couple of weeks ago. Actually, I was rather impressed with it once I took the time to load my own target curve and read the instructions a few times on how to use it.

I'm planning to give it another try again very soon.





> I'd prefer the Director, but the dealer wasn't well informed on the piece. I've read the post on the unit.......though it's been a couple of days since I was over there. Was a little concerned with one poster's unit seeming to be bricked after a software update so........



If I remember that thread correctly, it turned out the Director was not the cause of his problem. He believes he accidentally shorted his remote trigger which caused the problem. Anyway, the issue was resolved to the best of my knowledge.

My Director is being installed this week. Will report back on it soon.


----------



## mathematics

Since when does the DSP pro have auto tune?


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## subterFUSE

mathematics said:


> Since when does the DSP pro have auto tune?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Since inception. 


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----------



## mathematics

What do you do, hook up a microphone and then go to the RTA tab and there's an auto tune feature?


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## subterFUSE

mathematics said:


> What do you do, hook up a microphone and then go to the RTA tab and there's an auto tune feature?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yup. 


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## mathematics

Well, that's embarrassing lol. I've installed a dozen of them and never ventured over to the RTA tab. Always do it with an NTi analyzer and tune manually. How is the feature? Worth exploring?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## beemarman

subterFUSE said:


> Go to the I/O matrix.
> 
> In Digital tab, lay out your Digital Left and Right inputs to the correct outputs as desired.
> 
> In HEC/AUX tab, do the same with the HEC/AUX inputs.
> 
> 
> Next, go to DCM menu, Signal Management tab.
> 
> Digital Input section:
> 
> Source Selection = Automatic
> Priority = Checked
> Release Timer = 1s
> 
> HEC/AUX Input:
> 
> Source Selection = Automatic
> AUX Mode = HEC Module
> Priority = Unchecked
> Release Timer = 1s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will set the Digital from BitDMI as the Priority. Audio from it will interrupt the HEC module, but then release the input after 1 second of silence.


Thanks. Do I need to need to turn the volume to 0 on the Bmw stereo for the DSP to switch from DMI to HEC module? Then if for example I get a phone call while listening to HEC module it should then automatically switch over.


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## wiryalie

nice information


----------



## subterFUSE

beemarman said:


> Thanks. Do I need to need to turn the volume to 0 on the Bmw stereo for the DSP to switch from DMI to HEC module? Then if for example I get a phone call while listening to HEC module it should then automatically switch over.



I don't have a BMW anymore, nor did I have a mobridge when I did have one. But I think as long as the stereo is not actively playing sound it will allow the HEC module to take over the input.

There are sensitivity adjustments on the DCM menu that let you control how loud a sound must be before the auto signal detect is triggered. You might want to experiment with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

Well, I connected up the DSP today to play with it. Unfortunately I didn't get very far. I connected up power, remote in and remote out to the amps. Found a few issues that I need to figure out...

First, I'm not getting any sound. I must have something setup wrong in my menu's, but I'm getting no voltage on the Remote output so the amps aren't coming on.

I have an Alpine D800 with optical output connected to the optical in on the unit. Input selection switch is positioned toward the optical input (not the coaxial). In the routing menu, I have the digital routing all set for all outputs. Main routing is set for analog inputs. Perhaps I need to change this...I'll give it a try.
The optical is definitely working as the light on the end of the connector is on (and it worked fine on the H800 dsp).

Second, I see no way of selecting an input on the Director controller. I have the dsp set for manual source selection via controller and i have the Remote Controller type checked off for "Director".

Third, connecting a laptop to the Director to program (like the directions say) does not work. The software will only come up in demo mode. The controller shows that it recognizes the usb connection (indicated by an icon in the top left of the screen of the Director) when you plug it in, but alas- it doesn't communicate with the software on the laptop. It works perfectly when I disconnect the Director and connect the laptop direct to the mini usb on the DSP itself.



John- Did you get your Director installed yet?


----------



## captainobvious

So I connected an ipod to the aux (G/H) inputs and changed the settings to auto detect signal. I removed the optical. When I select no remote control connected in the DSP it works and activates the remote output. If I click the check box for the dsp controller connected, output shuts off.


----------



## subterFUSE

captainobvious said:


> So I connected an ipod to the aux (G/H) inputs and changed the settings to auto detect signal. I removed the optical. When I select no remote control connected in the DSP it works and activates the remote output. If I click the check box for the dsp controller connected, output shuts off.


Have you disabled Power Save in the DCM menu?


----------



## reath1

Anyone happen to know, exact if possible, but "close" will do, the size of the director? I can't seem to find anything online.

TIA


----------



## reath1

Found it.

DIRECTOR


----------



## BlackHHR

Steve, is your head unit AI-Net ? The Alpine will not activate the optical output on the head unit with out Ai-Net connected to it.
Try RCA`s as a possible trouble shooting method. 
This very question was being discussed today on face book.
Steve Cook installed the Helix DSP Pro/Director set up behind a 957HD Alpine and it worked great. 
Strictly Sound Quality group.


----------



## jsnstanley

reath1 said:


> Anyone happen to know, exact if possible, but "close" will do, the size of the director? I can't seem to find anything online.
> 
> TIA


5 1/4” L 2 1/8” w 3/4” D approx.


----------



## reath1

Ok, what I didn't find. Does the director have some sort of mount that it mounts in to like the Rux?


----------



## BlackHHR

Reath, I have the spec sheet with a 3 d drawing of the director at work. If you can wait until tomorrow, then I will email it to you.


----------



## reath1

Sounds great Greg. I see that H800, Rux and 360.3 exiting stage right from the Vette pretty quickly...lol.

I've been about as deep as you can go into the software of the H800 and unless I am totally missing something the Helix software totally blows the Alpine away. The extra 2 channels of the Helix will allow me to have one DSP instead of two.


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> So I connected an ipod to the aux (G/H) inputs and changed the settings to auto detect signal. I removed the optical. When I select no remote control connected in the DSP it works and activates the remote output. If I click the check box for the dsp controller connected, output shuts off.



Did you get it figured out Steve? This concerns me because I'd expect output to mute if a remote wasn't plugged in which makes me wonder if it's detecting your remote at all. 


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## subterFUSE

Steve,

Some questions to help troublshoot:


1. How many digital sources are you using?

2. Is your primary source Digital or Analog?

3. Do you have a remote control? Is it the Director or the UC-2A?




If your answer to #1 is one, and #2 is Digital then here is my suggestion:


In I/O menu, go to main routing.
Map out your Digital Left & Right to the appropriate output channels per your layout.

In Digital routing, leave everything blank.

In HEC/AUX Routing, map your AUX inputs appropriately to the outputs.




In DCM Menu, make sure Power Save is Off.

If you have a remote controller, you need to set that in the DCM Menu.
You'll want to set the button for HEC/AUX selection.


In Signal Detection, you'll set to manual for both and make AUX have Priority.





Hopefully, that should get you some audio. If not then we'll have to troubleshoot some more.


----------



## beemarman

captainobvious said:


> First, I'm not getting any sound. I must have something setup wrong in my menu's, but I'm getting no voltage on the Remote output so the amps aren't coming on.


Sounds like the same issue I had with my DSP.

The remote output usually breaks when it is connected to ground, car ground or to the housing of the DSP Pro. Even a very short contact can lead to a faulty remote output. Another rare reason could be a reversed polarity on the supply connector. 
If you want to reinstall your DSP, please make sure that the remote output cable never touches ground or the housing.ignore


If the above is not the case, then ignore it.


----------



## wrangler

Maybe somewhat related, my P SIX DSP, before it fried....another story....
I was using analog, 8.4an, I would get audio if I saved without putting a check next to director, as soon as I checked off director the audio would mute.
I connected 12v + and - to the DSP's battery and ground connection point.
I hope this helps in troubleshooting, waiting for my replacement and if it happens again I'll let this thread know, and tech support.


----------



## Qmotion

captainobvious said:


> Well, I connected up the DSP today to play with it. Unfortunately I didn't get very far. I connected up power, remote in and remote out to the amps. Found a few issues that I need to figure out...
> 
> First, I'm not getting any sound. I must have something setup wrong in my menu's, but I'm getting no voltage on the Remote output so the amps aren't coming on.
> 
> I have an Alpine D800 with optical output connected to the optical in on the unit. Input selection switch is positioned toward the optical input (not the coaxial). In the routing menu, I have the digital routing all set for all outputs. Main routing is set for analog inputs. Perhaps I need to change this...I'll give it a try.
> The optical is definitely working as the light on the end of the connector is on (and it worked fine on the H800 dsp).
> 
> Second, I see no way of selecting an input on the Director controller. I have the dsp set for manual source selection via controller and i have the Remote Controller type checked off for "Director"
> 
> Third, connecting a laptop to the Director to program (like the directions say) does not work. The software will only come up in demo mode. The controller shows that it recognizes the usb connection (indicated by an icon in the top left of the screen of the Director) when you plug it in, but alas- it doesn't communicate with the software on the laptop. It works perfectly when I disconnect the Director and connect the laptop direct to the mini usb on the DSP itself.
> 
> 
> 
> John- Did you get your Director installed yet?




Almost sound like Helix might need to make something 
Iike the Audison SFC. 

I'm not saying this to be funny but it might be impossible to insure that all digital outputs will be compatible with all dsp inputs. I actually bought two SFC's. One for each of my digital inputs.


----------



## Timelessr1

When I first hooked up my helix with a optical source I didn't have any output either. I went through all the settings again and realized I didn't have the optical mapped correctly.

Oh just a heads up also.. NEVER uncheck your remote to "off" while music is playing through digital...it allows the full digital volume To the amps.. I though I blew an ear drum!


----------



## Babs

^ reason número uno I wish they'd get away from doggone optical to anything more robust for straight digital with volume. Some kind of car-DSP standard. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

subterFUSE said:


> Have you disabled Power Save in the DCM menu?



Did that, yep.

Turns out that there is a digital volume control (and other settings) in the Directors menu that don't show up unless you 'press and hold' the touch screen options. No documentation that I saw mention of this so I had no idea.

I'm getting output now via the Alpine D800 optical into the dsp pro. Sounds nice and clean and there is wayyyy more headroom there than with the H800. Now to get tuning...


----------



## BlackHHR

Big thanks to Steve Cook !!


----------



## subterFUSE

Woo hoo!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

Yup, I'm glad to have it working now. Of course, with the D800 (and most other HU's) it only passes cd source down the optical as it probably pulls it right from the transport, so for any other sources it'll have to go down RCA and into the HEC/AUX of the dsp pro. No problem there.
If I remember correctly, the newer 957hd does pass all the sources down optical so if someone is wondering and needing that, that is the unit for you. It's a DD though vs the D800 which is a single din flip out, copper chassis unit. I'd have to get pretty creative with mounting the Director controller as I can only put a double din in the dash space.


For those that are wondering about the Director controller, it basically does similar stuff as the Bitone controller- Preset selection, master volume control, digital volume control, HEC/AUX volume control, subwoofer level, display settings, etc.
It does not allow any actual programming of the DSP itself like the Alpine RUX C800 which would be nice to allow adjustments on the fly, but it has a ton of presets so you can program up quite a few different ones and just select what you want. The volume pot is stepped and feels like a good quality pot. Similar in feel to the Noble units but slightly less tension. Display has good brightness and is easy to see and the touch screen controls have good sensitivity.

Measurements are appx:
Length: 5 5/16"
Height: 2 1/16"
Depth: 1 5/16" including knob. About 11/16" not including the height of the knob.


One beef about the Director- They provide a 90 degree angled usb connector to allow connection of the laptop to program the dsp. Once you have the Director controller connected, you can not use the usb connection on the DSP itself. That's not a big deal. However, the side plate of the director must be removed to allow the insertion of the angled usb connector on the back of the controller. It has extremely tiny allen/hex type screws (2) which secure the side panel. It's very difficult to get them out as the allen key is miniscule and hard to handle, and it is easy to strip the face of the key as its very cheap. I'd recommend trying to find a key in that size with a handle to get them loose the first time. After that, you're good.


----------



## captainobvious

subterFUSE said:


> Have you disabled Power Save in the DCM menu?





BlackHHR said:


> Big thanks to Steve Cook !!



Agreed! Thanks to you for checking up on some info for me and to Steve for letting me know how to get to the other options I needed to access.


John- Let me know what you think of the Director once you get it in this week. since you've been using the wired controller for a while I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. I definitely like it. Wish you could do more with it obviously, but it does what I need and looks good. I do wish they had made a larger display though considering the size of the enclosure. Then you wouldn't need to press and hold for other sub menu items and you could take up more of the blank real estate on the face of the unit.


----------



## BlackHHR

Mechanical drawing for the director in a PDF file .


----------



## wrangler

captainobvious said:


> Yup, I'm glad to have it working now. Of course, with the D800 (and most other HU's) it only passes cd source down the optical as it probably pulls it right from the transport, so for any other sources it'll have to go down RCA and into the HEC/AUX of the dsp pro. No problem there.
> If I remember correctly, the newer 957hd does pass all the sources down optical so if someone is wondering and needing that, that is the unit for you. It's a DD though vs the D800 which is a single din flip out, copper chassis unit. I'd have to get pretty creative with mounting the Director controller as I can only put a double din in the dash space.
> 
> 
> For those that are wondering about the Director controller, it basically does similar stuff as the Bitone controller- Preset selection, master volume control, digital volume control, HEC/AUX volume control, subwoofer level, display settings, etc.
> It does not allow any actual programming of the DSP itself like the Alpine RUX C800 which would be nice to allow adjustments on the fly, but it has a ton of presets so you can program up quite a few different ones and just select what you want. The volume pot is stepped and feels like a good quality pot. Similar in feel to the Noble units but slightly less tension. Display has good brightness and is easy to see and the touch screen controls have good sensitivity.
> 
> Measurements are appx:
> Length: 5 5/16"
> Height: 2 1/16"
> Depth: 1 5/16" including knob. About 11/16" not including the height of the knob.
> 
> 
> One beef about the Director- They provide a 90 degree angled usb connector to allow connection of the laptop to program the dsp. Once you have the Director controller connected, you can not use the usb connection on the DSP itself. That's not a big deal. However, the side plate of the director must be removed to allow the insertion of the angled usb connector on the back of the controller. It has extremely tiny allen/hex type screws (2) which secure the side panel. It's very difficult to get them out as the allen key is miniscule and hard to handle, and it is easy to strip the face of the key as its very cheap. I'd recommend trying to find a key in that size with a handle to get them loose the first time. After that, you're good.


I used a tiny flat head jeweller's screwdriver, screws were not too tight.


----------



## captainobvious

BlackHHR said:


> Mechanical drawing for the director in a PDF file .



Thanks for this.


----------



## drop1

I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I'll ask here. Anyone using the Helix with the built in amp? I'd so what are your thoughts on 5he amplifier section?


----------



## wrangler

drop1 said:


> I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I'll ask here. Anyone using the Helix with the built in amp? I'd so what are your thoughts on 5he amplifier section?


I would have been able to give you some info but mine fried just after a couple of days use. For the time used I never had it set up optimally, EQ'd it TA...
Getting a replacement hopefully tomorrow or Wednesday.


----------



## captainobvious

drop1 said:


> I don't really want to start a new thread for this so I'll ask here. Anyone using the Helix with the built in amp? I'd so what are your thoughts on 5he amplifier section?



Your referring to the Audiotec Fischer "Match" dsp units with built-in amplification...?

If so, they are pretty nice. Good feature set and adequate power for an upgrade over factory.


----------



## subterFUSE

captainobvious said:


> John- Let me know what you think of the Director once you get it in this week. since you've been using the wired controller for a while I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. I definitely like it. Wish you could do more with it obviously, but it does what I need and looks good. I do wish they had made a larger display though considering the size of the enclosure. Then you wouldn't need to press and hold for other sub menu items and you could take up more of the blank real estate on the face of the unit.



I should hopefully have it in and playing by this weekend.


----------



## drop1

captainobvious said:


> Your referring to the Audiotec Fischer "Match" dsp units with built-in amplification...?
> 
> If so, they are pretty nice. Good feature set and adequate power for an upgrade over factory.


I think it's called the Helix p6. 6 channels at around 100 watts per and 4 of the channels put out a little over 200 at 2ohm. Their calling it an "ultra" class d whatever that means. Wondering if anyone had any real world experience as it would suit my needs perfectly


----------



## captainobvious

drop1 said:


> I think it's called the Helix p6. 6 channels at around 100 watts per and 4 of the channels put out a little over 200 at 2ohm. Their calling it an "ultra" class d whatever that means. Wondering if anyone had any real world experience as it would suit my needs perfectly



http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-p-six-dsp-6-ch-amp-plus-8ch-dsp-one-box.html

Lots of info there^

I've installed, tuned and played with the Match DSP/amp all in one from the same company. I've also just installed and am playing with the DSP Pro now. I'll tell you this, the Match had half that power and a less powerful DSP and was damn good. With this unit, it has the capability of the DSP Pro with double the power of the Match units all in a chassis the size of a JL HD amp. That alone tells me this thing is a real winner.

This is a perfect solution for powerful dsp and plenty of power for a front 3-way. Just add a sub and mono amp and you're all set. I could absolutely see using one of these in future installs.


----------



## drop1

captainobvious said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-p-six-dsp-6-ch-amp-plus-8ch-dsp-one-box.html
> 
> Lots of info there^
> 
> I've installed, tuned and played with the Match DSP/amp all in one from the same company. I've also just installed and am playing with the DSP Pro now. I'll tell you this, the Match had half that power and a less powerful DSP and was damn good. With this unit, it has the capability of the DSP Pro with double the power of the Match units all in a chassis the size of a JL HD amp. That alone tells me this thing is a real winner.
> 
> This is a perfect solution for powerful dsp and plenty of power for a front 3-way. Just add a sub and mono amp and you're all set. I could absolutely see using one of these in future installs.


That's kinda where I'm coming from. If I can find me some nice 2 ohm midbass drivers or even a the newer k2 set that are 2 ohm drivers this thing could really have some potential in a really small package.
I mean we are talking over 1000 watts of available power for a front stage if it does rated.


----------



## Babs

I'm gonna start using that tag feature in FB more often.. Glad I stumbled on that thread at the right time with your problem on my brain.



BlackHHR said:


> Big thanks to Steve Cook !!





captainobvious said:


> Did that, yep.
> 
> Turns out that there is a digital volume control (and other settings) in the Directors menu that don't show up unless you 'press and hold' the touch screen options. No documentation that I saw mention of this so I had no idea.
> 
> I'm getting output now via the Alpine D800 optical into the dsp pro. Sounds nice and clean and there is wayyyy more headroom there than with the H800. Now to get tuning...





captainobvious said:


> Agreed! Thanks to you for checking up on some info for me and to Steve for letting me know how to get to the other options I needed to access.
> 
> 
> John- Let me know what you think of the Director once you get it in this week. since you've been using the wired controller for a while I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. I definitely like it. Wish you could do more with it obviously, but it does what I need and looks good. I do wish they had made a larger display though considering the size of the enclosure. Then you wouldn't need to press and hold for other sub menu items and you could take up more of the blank real estate on the face of the unit.


----------



## Qmotion

captainobvious said:


> Yup, I'm glad to have it working now. Of course, with the D800 (and most other HU's) it only passes cd source down the optical as it probably pulls it right from the transport, so for any other sources it'll have to go down RCA and into the HEC/AUX of the dsp pro. No problem there.
> If I remember correctly, the newer 957hd does pass all the sources down optical so if someone is wondering and needing that, that is the unit for you. It's a DD though vs the D800 which is a single din flip out, copper chassis unit. I'd have to get pretty creative with mounting the Director controller as I can only put a double din in the dash space.
> 
> 
> For those that are wondering about the Director controller, it basically does similar stuff as the Bitone controller- Preset selection, master volume control, digital volume control, HEC/AUX volume control, subwoofer level, display settings, etc.
> It does not allow any actual programming of the DSP itself like the Alpine RUX C800 which would be nice to allow adjustments on the fly, but it has a ton of presets so you can program up quite a few different ones and just select what you want. The volume pot is stepped and feels like a good quality pot. Similar in feel to the Noble units but slightly less tension. Display has good brightness and is easy to see and the touch screen controls have good sensitivity.
> 
> Measurements are appx:
> Length: 5 5/16"
> Height: 2 1/16"
> Depth: 1 5/16" including knob. About 11/16" not including the height of the knob.
> 
> 
> One beef about the Director- They provide a 90 degree angled usb connector to allow connection of the laptop to program the dsp. Once you have the Director controller connected, you can not use the usb connection on the DSP itself. That's not a big deal. However, the side plate of the director must be removed to allow the insertion of the angled usb connector on the back of the controller. It has extremely tiny allen/hex type screws (2) which secure the side panel. It's very difficult to get them out as the allen key is miniscule and hard to handle, and it is easy to strip the face of the key as its very cheap. I'd recommend trying to find a key in that size with a handle to get them loose the first time. After that, you're good.



Glad to see you back up and running Steve. If i don't resolve these Audison issues I'll be getting a DSP Pro myself.

Does the DSP Pro handle 2 digital inputs and digital output to the amps? Hopefully I could hold on to the Voce 5.1's and stay digital into them.


----------



## drop1

Qmotion said:


> Glad to see you back up and running Steve. If i don't resolve these Audison issues I'll be getting a DSP Pro myself.
> 
> Does the DSP Pro handle 2 digital inputs and digital output to the amps? Hopefully I could hold on to the Voce 5.1's and stay digital into them.


I was looking into a digital out to run I to the same amp. I haven't seen anything but I could have sworn I read that you could add a digital out but I can't seem to find that I fo again.


----------



## Qmotion

I thought Helix had modules you could buy to convert to digital out. Maybe I'm mixing them up with Masconi.


----------



## drop1

Qmotion said:


> I thought Helix had modules you could buy to convert to digital out. Maybe I'm mixing them up with Masconi.


I know you can get modules for extra ins, I thought I had read for outputs as well.


----------



## Qmotion

I'm not finding anything on the digital output. It's only a 4' run to the amps so that shouldn't matter much. I'll definitely need 2 digital inputs.


----------



## subterFUSE

The Helix Pro has 1 pair of Digital inputs on the primary chassis. One coax and one optical. They cannot both be used simultaneously. There is a toggle switch on the case so it's an either or choice between coax or optical.

There is a HEC module which offers a 2nd pair of Digital inputs.

There is a different HEC module that offers a Digital output. However, that digital output is a simple stereo out. That means no crossover.


This is very different than the Audison BitOne which has a proprietary digital output that carries up to 8 channels, with full processing on each channel.

The Audison amps with digital In are not compatible with the digital output on a Helix DSP Pro. They use an Ethernet cable and proprietary link that only works with Audison DSP products.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

drop1 said:


> That's kinda where I'm coming from. If I can find me some nice 2 ohm midbass drivers or even a the newer k2 set that are 2 ohm drivers this thing could really have some potential in a really small package.
> I mean we are talking over 1000 watts of available power for a front stage if it does rated.



Even 100 watts is more than enough for a reasonably efficient mid/tweeter and even midbass. I wouldn't waste time or resources trying to find a 2ohm driver. A lower impedance driver will allow the amp to run cooler and safer and will likely be more efficient as well. Look for drivers with good sensitivity, not lower impedance


----------



## captainobvious

Babs said:


> I'm gonna start using that tag feature in FB more often.. Glad I stumbled on that thread at the right time with your problem on my brain.


Yup, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## captainobvious

subterFUSE said:


> The Helix Pro has 1 pair of Digital inputs on the primary chassis. One coax and one optical. They cannot both be used simultaneously. There is a toggle switch on the case so it's an either or choice between coax or optical.
> 
> There is a HEC module which offers a 2nd pair of Digital inputs.
> 
> There is a different HEC module that offers a Digital output. However, that digital output is a simple stereo out. That means no crossover.
> 
> 
> This is very different than the Audison BitOne which has a proprietary digital output that carries up to 8 channels, with full processing on each channel.
> 
> The Audison amps with digital In are not compatible with the digital output on a Helix DSP Pro. They use an Ethernet cable and proprietary link that only works with Audison DSP products.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Good info John.




Honestly though, I don't see the need for a digital connection between the DSP and the amps, especially when they are located next to each other. From the source unit to the DSP, sure. But once you hit the dsp and are noise free coming out, there shouldn't be a problem. I still think the much greater processing power of the DSP Pro far outweighs using the bitone with basic processing just to get the digital out to the amps.


----------



## drop1

captainobvious said:


> Even 100 watts is more than enough for a reasonably efficient mid/tweeter and even midbass. I wouldn't waste time or resources trying to find a 2ohm driver. A lower impedance driver will allow the amp to run cooler and safer and will likely be more efficient as well. Look for drivers with good sensitivity, not lower impedance


I was already looking at the krx2 or 3 focal set which happen to be 2 ohm drivers long before I was even considering a dsp.


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> Yup, thanks for the heads up.



Glad to help. I just wanna hear it. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> The Helix Pro has 1 pair of Digital inputs on the primary chassis. One coax and one optical. They cannot both be used simultaneously. There is a toggle switch on the case so it's an either or choice between coax or optical.
> 
> There is a HEC module which offers a 2nd pair of Digital inputs.
> 
> There is a different HEC module that offers a Digital output. However, that digital output is a simple stereo out. That means no crossover.
> 
> 
> This is very different than the Audison BitOne which has a proprietary digital output that carries up to 8 channels, with full processing on each channel.
> 
> The Audison amps with digital In are not compatible with the digital output on a Helix DSP Pro. They use an Ethernet cable and proprietary link that only works with Audison DSP products.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



My first thought was what on Earth feeds digital coax but the more I've investigated there are as many coax output conversion devices as optical I suppose. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thehatedguy

Fixed for you.



captainobvious said:


> Even 100 watts is more than enough for a reasonably efficient mid/tweeter and even midbass. I wouldn't waste time or resources trying to find a 2ohm driver. A _higher_ impedance driver will allow the amp to run cooler and safer and will likely be more efficient as well. Look for drivers with good sensitivity, not lower impedance


----------



## captainobvious

thehatedguy said:


> Fixed for you.


Doh! That's what happens when doing too may things at once.

Good catch!


----------



## Rozay

I jus replace my bit one into dsp pro. I'm still getting mad hiss and pop up noise. I'm running all my jl hd amps to the remote out.


----------



## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> I jus replace my bit one into dsp pro. I'm still getting mad hiss and pop up noise. I'm running all my jl hd amps to the remote out.



What is your source?

Are you using high level inputs?

Are you using remote trigger in to Helix?

How did you get gains?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

subterFUSE said:


> What is your source?
> 
> Are you using high level inputs?
> 
> Are you using remote trigger in to Helix?
> 
> How did you get gains?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And have you tried switching between the 3 different grounding options on the unit?
(Power off the system first obviously)


----------



## Rozay

captainobvious said:


> And have you tried switching between the 3 different grounding options on the unit?
> (Power off the system first obviously)


No but I will try that. Thx


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> What is your source?
> 
> Are you using high level inputs?
> 
> Are you using remote trigger in to Helix?
> 
> How did you get gains?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oem Lexus head unit

High level input and my gains are low. I jus installed this unit yesterday and been playing around with it all night and can't seem to get it sounding right


----------



## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> Oem Lexus head unit
> 
> High level input and my gains are low. I jus installed this unit yesterday and been playing around with it all night and can't seem to get it sounding right



If you are using high level inputs to the Helix DSP Pro, then you don't need to use the remote in trigger. Disconnect that and see if the pops go away.


Next, you might need to adjust the input gains on the DSP to match the output of the Lexus amplifier. Have you used a DMM to test the voltage from the Lexus amp?


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> If you are using high level inputs to the Helix DSP Pro, then you don't need to use the remote in trigger. Disconnect that and see if the pops go away.
> 
> 
> Next, you might need to adjust the input gains on the DSP to match the output of the Lexus amplifier. Have you used a DMM to test the voltage from the Lexus amp?


Remote trigger? I'm jus using remote out.


----------



## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> Remote trigger? I'm jus using remote out.



Ok good.

There is also a remote in, but you don't use it if you have high level inputs used.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> Ok good.
> 
> There is also a remote in, but you don't use it if you have high level inputs used.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i jus took the dsp apart and adjust the levels inside. the hissing is even louder.


----------



## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> i jus took the dsp apart and adjust the levels inside. the hissing is even louder.



That's usually a symptom of playing the head unit volume too low and the gains too high.

What volume level are you running the Lexus head unit at when you set the gains?

Are you using a DSP volume control, or are you going to use the OEM volume?

Did you test your head unit's output for maximum undistorted level?
Do you know the voltage range of the Lexus amp outputs?


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> That's usually a symptom of playing the head unit volume too low and the gains too high.
> 
> What volume level are you running the Lexus head unit at when you set the gains?
> 
> Are you using a DSP volume control, or are you going to use the OEM volume?
> 
> Did you test your head unit's output for maximum undistorted level?
> Do you know the voltage range of the Lexus amp outputs?


i jus switch the jumpers to 10-20v and its a little quieter.


----------



## Rozay

I jus yank the helix out and installed the bit one back in. I can't seem to get the helix to sound good. If both unit hiss. I rather use the bit one for now. Gonna get someone else to install it on wed. If that fails I'm gonna grab the mosconi instead. I know another person who's using it in the same Lexus and he gets zero noise.


----------



## bbfoto

Rozay said:


> I jus yank the helix out and installed the bit one back in. I can't seem to get the helix to sound good. If both unit hiss. I rather use the bit one for now. Gonna get someone else to install it on wed. If that fails I'm gonna grab the mosconi instead. I know another person who's using it in the same Lexus and he gets zero noise.


It's your "system", source, or gain structure that is causing the hiss, not the DSP. You really need to address all of the questions that subterFUSE asked you above. The answers to those questions and the resulting actions/changes that you make will most likely remedy your noise/hiss problem, or at least point you in the right direction. Even if you swap processors, those are answers you need to have or they will all sound like sh!t. 

Also. Do you have the URC-2A or Director Remote for the DSP?

Can you first test your setup with a decent line-level analog source fed into the RCA inputs on the DSP?...Even if it's just the Headphone Output from a smartphone set at 75-80% volume while playing a good-quality music file? Do you still have the same amount of hiss?


----------



## Dillyyo

Rozay said:


> I jus yank the helix out and installed the bit one back in. I can't seem to get the helix to sound good. If both unit hiss. I rather use the bit one for now. Gonna get someone else to install it on wed. If that fails I'm gonna grab the mosconi instead. I know another person who's using it in the same Lexus and he gets zero noise.


Sounds like you are just throwing **** against the wall and seeing what sticks. Highly doubt 2 high end DSPs are bad, but rather something is not properly setup. 

I didn't start at the beg of this thread, so preemptive apologies if I missed something obvious.


----------



## subterFUSE

Hiss is almost always the result of head unit volume too low and gains on the DSP too high. That's why switching the jumper to the 20V setting helped. The output from the Lexus amp must be high voltage. Testing it with a DMM would be a good first step.

Testing the Lexus amp output with an oscilloscope would be even better. You need to find the max undistorted volume level, then leave the volume there and set the gains. The Helix DSP has a clipping indicator on the unit to help with this, if you don't have an oscilloscope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rozay

Thx for everyone's input. The distribution company lend me this unit to mess around with claiming to me that this unit will eat the bit one alive. I want to love this unit. So I'm gonna give it another chance and gonna go to a different shop to install this. They have the oscilloscope and hopefully I can get everything figured out. The distribution also gave me the helix Rta mic and the director for free if I like this unit.


----------



## Rozay

Dillyyo said:


> Sounds like you are just throwing **** against the wall and seeing what sticks. Highly doubt 2 high end DSPs are bad, but rather something is not properly setup.
> 
> I didn't start at the beg of this thread, so preemptive apologies if I missed something obvious.


I own every dsp out there. This helix was given to me to test out. Never said both DSp was bad. Thx


----------



## Rozay

bbfoto said:


> It's your "system", source, or gain structure that is causing the hiss, not the DSP. You really need to address all of the questions that subterFUSE asked you above. The answers to those questions and the resulting actions/changes that you make will most likely remedy your noise/hiss problem, or at least point you in the right direction. Even if you swap processors, those are answers you need to have or they will all sound like sh!t.
> 
> Also. Do you have the URC-2A or Director Remote for the DSP?
> 
> Can you first test your setup with a decent line-level analog source fed into the RCA inputs on the DSP?...Even if it's just the Headphone Output from a smartphone set at 75-80% volume while playing a good-quality music file? Do you still have the same amount of hiss?


I'm not using non of the remotes but I have them. I've been trying out wat subterfuse is telling me what to do. Seem ps like he's got this dsp locked down.


----------



## Rozay

Also if u guys wondering what vehicle it is. It's a Lexus gs350 Fsport 2014


----------



## mathematics

I've never had any noise floor issues with the helix dsp, dsp pro, match pp82, or p-six. This is interesting. Dozens have been installed by us. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

I did notice once a very weird noise floor with my DSP once without the remote plugged in. Without the remote it went away, oddly.. Come to find out, I had my laptop plugged into the wall, my output plugged into my head unit aux (for rew tones) and linked to the DSP via USB for tuning. 

Once it hit me that it was a rather odd buzz that reminded me of 60hz A/C noise, I had a big head-slap I coulda hadda V-8 moment. I promised myself I wouldn't tell anyone. oops.  So naturally, since I've not been able to tune WITH the remote plugged in, at all, I didn't have the USB plugged into the laptop. So, no noise. Go figure. LOL! I had a nice little ground loopy-loop with A/C noise being fed into the system from the laptop.


----------



## subterFUSE

Yup. Unplug the laptop from power and that hum goes away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> Yup. Unplug the laptop from power and that hum goes away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Subterfuse tell me if this is the problem. I have hi level taken from my factory amp. Front mid, rear full and sub. When it's done like this my rears in the car sound like subwoofer but when I unplug the subwoofer from the hi level inputs my rears don't work at all. 

I have the hi level run like this on the bit one right now and it sounds amazing besides the hissing.


----------



## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> Subterfuse tell me if this is the problem. I have hi level taken from my factory amp. Front mid, rear full and sub. When it's done like this my rears in the car sound like subwoofer but when I unplug the subwoofer from the hi level inputs my rears don't work at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the hi level run like this on the bit one right now and it sounds amazing besides the hissing.



Can you post a picture of your I/O matrix so we can see how your inputs were mapped to the outputs?

Your description sounds to me like the inputs are mapped wrong but that's just a guess. Seeing your input matrix will confirm this.


Does the Lexus has any active noise cancellation? A lot of cars have this feature now and it sometimes must be disabled somehow. Not sure if it applies to Lexus or not, but Audi, Merc, BMW and Cadillac all have them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> Can you post a picture of your I/O matrix so we can see how your inputs were mapped to the outputs?
> 
> Your description sounds to me like the inputs are mapped wrong but that's just a guess. Seeing your input matrix will confirm this.
> 
> 
> Does the Lexus has any active noise cancellation? A lot of cars have this feature now and it sometimes must be disabled somehow. Not sure if it applies to Lexus or not, but Audi, Merc, BMW and Cadillac all have them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think there's any active noise cancelation. But I will get back to u on the mapping after I get my other installer to install the helix.


----------



## Babs

This may have been asked, if so sorry..

For you guys using the remote or director remote to switch from RCA low-level to optical in's, when you switch to optical, do you still hear the RCA source playing bleed-through faintly?

I am when I switch from the Alpine (RCA) to Airport Express (toslink). If there's no music being streamed through the APE, I hear the Alpine still.. The input isn't completely shut off within the Helix. Annoying. 

Thought I'd ask. Re-testing my APE as a potential optical wifi source. Sounds decent BTW. Evaluating it presently. Depends on how well it sticks, if graininess I'm detecting is gain-related and how reliable it is from a better lighter charger if I do it as a sure-enough install. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thebookfreak58

Input EQ added.

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


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## subterFUSE

Wow! Talk about a MAJOR upgrade!

How many other DSP units on the car market have ever added a massive feature like that after release? Way to go Audiotec Fischer!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm

thebookfreak58 said:


> Input EQ added.
> 
> PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


Frickin Bravo!!!!

I am becoming more and more impressed by this company by the day. I was just thinking yesterday that an input EQ was nice on the mosconi unit....Now this!


----------



## subterFUSE

ndm said:


> Frickin Bravo!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I am becoming more and more impressed by this company by the day. I was just thinking yesterday that an input EQ was nice on the mosconi unit....Now this!



Yup. These Germans are impressing me constantly with not only top level products, but responsive service and aftercare. It is rare for tech companies to add so many great features without charging the customers for them.

We asked for the ability to upload cal files for non-Helix RTA mics. They delivered, at no charge.

I asked for a manual input select with disabled release timer. They delivered in less than 2 weeks.

Now we have an entire set of input EQ! That was one of the features I always gave the edge to Mosconi.

I recently requested 48 dB slopes for the Linkwitz crossovers. Maybe they will add those, too?

I'm very impressed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## drop1

ndm said:


> Frickin Bravo!!!!
> 
> I am becoming more and more impressed by this company by the day. I was just thinking yesterday that an input EQ was nice on the mosconi unit....Now this!


Curious as to why it would be needed?


----------



## lizardking

Not sure the advantage an input EQ has over the 31 bands parametric per channel. I would think a de-equalization feature for "real" seamless integration would be much better.


----------



## Babs

drop1 said:


> Curious as to why it would be needed?


^ Yeah me too.. Why's it so cool? OEM de-processing?


----------



## Babs

A detailed change log will be published in next week

- BRAX NOX4 DSP and MATCH DSP were implemented to the DSP PC-Tool & DIRECTOR
- IO - 5 full parametric input EQ bands added for DSP PRO und P SIX DSP
- IO - Adjustable for each analog input signal pair 
- IO - new EQ adjustment concept implemented for input EQs
- DCM - password protection added
*- DCM - Input gain controls can ge activated for each signal group (visible in IO)*
- Minor bug fixes for sound setup switch and phase adjustments for *56-Bit DSPs*

Yay the regular 8ch DSP gets some love. Man AF is my current favorite car audio company. Those guys rock!

That said.. in my tool demo'd as a regular DSP (non-pro) it shows each input source (analog, aux, digital) have gain adjustments in the IO section.. That's pretty huge.. Level-matching your sources so you don't blow up when you switch from Analog to Digi, etc. This is a rather slick update.

I don't get the input EQ like you Pro guys, but oh well. I hope they might have addressed why I can't connect PC with the remote plugged in though. Gonna try it when I get a second. Granted I don't recall that I made the effort to ask them about it.


----------



## Salami

Babs said:


> ^ Yeah me too.. Why's it so cool? OEM de-processing?



That's what I am thinking. This is what may have just swayed me into being okay with dropping the $1k plus on a DSP Pro and Director.


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## drop1

Salami said:


> That's what I am thinking. This is what may have just swayed me into being okay with dropping the $1k plus on a DSP Pro and Director.


I'm not hating on the feature but with the amout of eq per speaker already in place it seems a little more than unecessary. Redundant seems like the right word. But, options never hurt anything.


----------



## pcpete

Its more for eqing a bad input...like from high level input from speakers...try to flatten the signal before processing etc...very usefull for some....i use optical in...so no use for me

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE

pcpete said:


> Its more for eqing a bad input...like from high level input from speakers...try to flatten the signal before processing etc...very usefull for some....i use optical in...so no use for me
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk



That would be one use for it.

In the Pro Audio world many of the DSP products have Input and Output EQ. They EQ the outputs first to flatten the response between drivers, and then use Input EQ to shape the overall tonality of the system at the end. The theory is that any EQ after the Crossover will affect the gain staging of all downstream components. Once the Output EQ is set, it is usually left alone. Then the Input EQ is used to shape the sound for taste, environment, etc....



Whether or not this is useful in a car i s up for debate. My real point was that I am impressed that Helix is constantly updating their DSP not only to fix minor bugs, but also to add major functionality.


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## lizardking

Let's hope they are looking at doing true OEM integration and this is one step closer. Today's vehicles are heavily processed. It's just software and can be easily written. Not having to use a separate controller for volume would also be nice with factory integration. Seems like most of these newer vehicles the volume is managed through the factory amp/dsp.


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## captainobvious

^^

That's the one thing I'd really like to see done. I'd like to retain factory controls (even with an interface like the PAC/Axxess. 


I'm also impressed with AF's support for this product. Reminds me of miniDSP. Very impressive, indeed.


----------



## Rozay

lizardking said:


> Let's hope they are looking at doing true OEM integration and this is one step closer. Today's vehicles are heavily processed. It's just software and can be easily written. Not having to use a separate controller for volume would also be nice with factory integration. Seems like most of these newer vehicles the volume is managed through the factory amp/dsp.


This is very true. Using the factory volume knob is the ideal case for me.


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## subterFUSE

Just keep in mind that SQ will always be better with a separate DSP volume. Factory volume is only for convenience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## t3sn4f2

It'd be nice to also see some type of "loudness" function added.


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Just keep in mind that SQ will always be better with a separate DSP volume. Factory volume is only for convenience.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That does seem to be the one challenge of outboard DSP's. They integrate to a point, but are still a bit intrusive from a UI standpoint. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lizardking

It's 2015, we shouldn't need separate controllers. Looks ghetto no matter the install.


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## ErinH

I built a separate volume knob using an ALPS blue velvet pot. I much prefer that, as I was able to located it on my console armrest, which puts it right at my fingertips. A few guys here have listened to my car like this and I think, in general, they felt the same way.


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## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> I built a separate volume knob using an ALPS blue velvet pot. I much prefer that, as I was able to located it on my console armrest, which puts it right at my fingertips. A few guys here have listened to my car like this and I think, in general, they felt the same way.


Erin, that's definitely the ideal setup IMO as well...always right at your fingertips = simple + effective.

I've purchased the Director Remote but I'm honestly not diggin' it. Big surprise, right?! 

Why take up 1/3rd of this TINY TOUCHscreen's usable space just for the "Helix" logo?!?! Put the [email protected] logo on the huge expanse on the front housing, and make the Touchscreen "buttons" and text labels larger with more space between them, FFS!

I like how the Director's "commander" knob functions, but honestly, I just wish that it was not combined with a Touchscreen Interface.

It would be perfect (for me) if the screen was just a simple "status display" that you could mount separately from the knob without having to tear the Director apart. That would allow you to keep the knob mounted in the console/armrest where it would be perfectly placed and not take up a lot of space, and then you could mold the display into the dash/ashtray/sun visor/overhead compartment, so at least your eyes would be looking forward and not down at the center console to tap the TouchScreen "texting-while-driving style".

Ideally I would just like a small, simple 2-knob push-button "rotary commander" remote just like the RF 360.3. Both knobs would rotate/push-to-select/long push to get into menu, then rotate, & push-to-select, etc.

The 4 main functions that I'd want easy access to with just tactile feedback by using 2 "commander" knobs are:

1. Master Volume
2. Subwoofer Level
3. Manual Source Selection (to over-ride the Auto Input Selection) 
4. Tuning Preset Selection (at least 4, preferably 8-10)

This could easily be done without a Touchscreen by using 2 "commander"-type knobs just like the RF 360.3 remote. All of the other "Setup" functions and other menu options could be accessed by Long-Presses of the knobs and the Screen would just display the menu action/status....i.e. similar to the iPod Classic's Display and Click Wheel implementation.

I may just skip it altogether (the Director Remote), although I'd really like to have more than 2 measly Tuning Presets.

I'll say it again, broken-record style, LOL...for the amount of space it takes up, and its cost, the Director Remote should offer full DSP control similar to the RUX-C800, which is also less expensive at $250.

Maybe I'll see if my best friend's son would be interested in reverse-engineering the Director Remote to create a custom unit.  He loves music & audio, and he definitely likes a challenge  ...he was arrested by the Feds when he was 17 for hacking into the FBI's mainframe, LOL, and as part of his plea bargain he was put to work for the FBI's counter-cyber terrorism program to stop punks like him (but more-so serious threats) from doing what he was able to do.  His home workshop is a computer/electronic geek's wonderland...crazy custom electronics, etc...he reminds me of Neil_J, on steroids, LOL.

Anyway, enough useless rambling from me!


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## Salami

bbfoto said:


> I may just skip it altogether (the Director Remote), although I'd really like to have more than 2 measly Tuning Presets.



Is there a remote way of accessing the two presets? I loved the Alps knob setup Erin use and would love to use one but I would also like to have access to both presets remotely.


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## tjframe

bbfoto said:


> I've purchased the Director Remote but I'm honestly not diggin' it. Big surprise, right?!....I may just skip it altogether (the Director Remote), although I'd really like to have more than 2 measly Tuning Presets.


I feel the same way.. I'll probably have mine removed. Oh well there goes $275


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## Rozay

lizardking said:


> It's 2015, we shouldn't need separate controllers. Looks ghetto no matter the install.


Correct some of the new cars have pretty much no area to install a controller. Plus makes the car look uhly


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## Rozay

t3sn4f2 said:


> It'd be nice to also see some type of "loudness" function added.


Loudness? I don't think that's necessary. Too me its distortion, if u tune your car right. It can get real loud and clean


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## subterFUSE

ErinH said:


> I built a separate volume knob using an ALPS blue velvet pot. I much prefer that, as I was able to located it on my console armrest, which puts it right at my fingertips. A few guys here have listened to my car like this and I think, in general, they felt the same way.


Yes, I can attest to feeling Erin's knob and it was magical. :laugh:


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## Babs




----------



## t3sn4f2

Rozay said:


> Loudness? I don't think that's necessary. Too me its distortion, if u tune your car right. It can get real loud and clean


The loudness function is not about making the music louder, it's not a turbo boost per say. It's about maintaining the perception of equal loudness in all frequencies for different volume settings. What it does is boost the bass and treble gradually as you reduce the master volume. In order to make up for our reduced sensitivity to those frequencies at lower amplitude. IOW it keeps the sound balanced and full at any functional volume setting. There should never be any distortion added since at the max volume settings the loudness EQ'ing is not applied.

Here's a post from Erin on it, including FR plots.



ErinH said:


> *Pioneer z110bt Frequency Response Testing:*
> The fun stuff.
> 
> The test below used TrueRTA to run pink noise through the deck. Out of the deck, I used a home brew RCA to pin adapter, per VP Electricity's advice into an XLR cable where the response was recorded.
> 
> *The pioneer has 3 'loud' settings in addition to the standard 'off' setting. So, 4 total variances in FR if you wish: "Off", "Low", "Mid", and "High".*
> 
> The picture below lists the corresponding Test Number for each situation in BLUE. The red writing is for the scion headunit testing so IGNORE the RED writing for the z110bt testing.
> For example, if you look below you can see that for Test Number 1 is with the volume at '5', and the Loud setting set to 'Off'.
> Furthermore, Test Number 10 is a test with the volume set to '20', and the Loud setting set to 'Mid'.
> You can see that testing was done at 3 different volumes, on all 4 'Loud' settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Combine the legend above, with the example below and you should see just how to link the Test Number to the appropriate results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you've got that as a legend, the test results are as follows...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loudness OFF:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loudness LOW:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loudness MID:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loudness HIGH:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Now, comparing all the various Loud settings at each incremental volume:
> *
> Volume = 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Volume = 20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Volume = 40
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you can clearly see just how the loudness curve effects the FR. Pretty interesting to see that the closest to flat you get is at full output volume with the loudness setting at any point. Definitely interesting to see just how much the FR varies with volume.
> Also, note the trendline for the mid volume setting comparing the various loudness curves. Pretty substantial increase starting at 2khz, with a rise of about 5db on the 'High' Loud setting vs the others.
> Also, I find it interesting how the 'off' & 'low' settings are so close to each other as are both 'mid' and 'high'. But, the 2 pair are different from the other pair by about 5db. In other words, off and low both, are about 5dB away from 'mid' and 'high'.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to do some more testing maybe tomorrow with more intervals to see the change at about every 5 stops. I'd like to see how these curves all compare at a finer resolution.


----------



## teldzc1

ErinH said:


> I built a separate volume knob using an ALPS blue velvet pot. I much prefer that, as I was able to located it on my console armrest, which puts it right at my fingertips. A few guys here have listened to my car like this and I think, in general, they felt the same way.


Help me understand. The Alps pot is used to control the volume on the DSP Pro? It's controlling the digital attenuation of the signal right? Does having a pot like the Alps provide better sound or control even if it's controlling the digital part?

Not trying to be an ass, I'm legitimately interested. I love the feel of analog pots but I want to make sure I understand what it's doing.


----------



## InstantCrush

teldzc1 said:


> Help me understand. The Alps pot is used to control the volume on the DSP Pro? It's controlling the digital attenuation of the signal right? Does having a pot like the Alps provide better sound or control even if it's controlling the digital part?


I'm not sure how he built it, but if it works in the digital domain, it will not have any audio signal running through it and the quality of the potentiometer will only affect the feel of it and the long-term reliability (as we all know, cheap pots can quickly get 'scratchy' which would not sound the same when controlling a digital signal but would still potentially be audibly messed up).

If it works in the analog domain then it may or may not have actual audio signal running through it depending on the specific circuit. And thus it may or may not affect the audio quality depending on the specific circuit.

Also, if it works in the analog domain, it could be implemented as a ganged potentiometer (basically a multi-pole pot) and cheap ganged pots might not be matched very well on the different poles.


----------



## bbfoto

Salami said:


> Is there a remote way of accessing the two presets? I loved the Alps knob setup Erin use and would love to use one but I would also like to have access to both presets remotely.


Yes. With a caveat.

Probably the easiest way is to buy the $60 Helix URC-2A remote. But you can only configure the "MODE" button to provide _either_ Source Switching between 1 _Analog_ and 1 _Digital_ Input Source, _OR_ to provide the Selection of 2 Tuning PRESETS. It will not do both...it must be configured to do one or the other in the DSP PC Tool software.

Other than the MODE switch, the URC-2A has 2 knobs/dials that provide Master Volume and Subwoofer Level. These are 10k linear potentiometers. They do not adjust the Volume or Levels directly and do not carry the actual analog audio signal. The DSP circuitry just "Tracks" the analog resistance or voltage of the signal that is returned from the 10k pots in the Remote, and it uses that variable value to digitally-control the Output Level.

You can disassemble the URC-2A and remotely mount the pots/dials and button wherever you'd like, as long as you are handy with a soldering iron. Or you can make your own Remote using the guide and Links here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/141022-how-make-your-own-remote-controller-helix-brax-dsps.html


----------



## Rozay

Anyone buy the mtk 1 mic? I got it and gonna use it once I have it all put in properly.


----------



## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> Anyone buy the mtk 1 mic? I got it and gonna use it once I have it all put in properly.


Nope. Once Helix implemented Cal file uploads, I've just been using my UMIK-1 USB mic. It works just fine, and costs 1/3 the price.


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Nope. Once Helix implemented Cal file uploads, I've just been using my UMIK-1 USB mic. It works just fine, and costs 1/3 the price.


Yep.. I used a Dayton UMM-6 as well with fine results. Granted I abandoned the Helix RTA for REW but the USB mic's work fine with it.


----------



## Rozay

so i finally got the dsp pro installed and man it sounds good. got rid of the hiss but i still got a slight pop up noise. now im gonna play around with the tuning since i dont like how my installer tuned it.


----------



## Rozay

subterFUSE said:


> Nope. Once Helix implemented Cal file uploads, I've just been using my UMIK-1 USB mic. It works just fine, and costs 1/3 the price.


Hey subter if u don't mind. Can u take a snap shot of your crossover point on your front setup. Thx


----------



## Seraphim38

Rozay said:


> so i finally got the dsp pro installed and man it sounds good. got rid of the hiss but i still got a slight pop up noise. now im gonna play around with the tuning since i dont like how my installer tuned it.


if you are talking about a power on pop, that can be a power surge that comes through from the source unit if the amplifier powers up before the source unit does.

I once was working at a show (professional live sound engineer) and we had a power on pop like this because the system wasn't powered on in the proper order. We didn't even hear the "thump", but the power on blew the voice coils of thirty two 12" midrange drivers.

Power on surges can cause your drivers into over excursion and shear voice coil suspension, causing driver failure.

Best way to combat this is to setup a power on relay that delays the amplifier power up for a second or two after the head unit and DSP powers up.


----------



## InstantCrush

Seraphim38 said:


> Best way to combat this is to setup a power on relay that delays the amplifier power up for a second or two after the head unit and DSP powers up.


No. Using a relay for something like that is not a great idea. Use an RC network. Relays are larger and much less reliable and don't really inherently provide that long a delay (unless you used them with... an RC network) and are just unnecessary here. Proper engineering also requires a flyback diode with an electromechanical relay.

RC networks can be tuned and are extremely cheap and do not rely on mechanical switches which can fail and also do not need the flyback diode. The capacitor can fail but if you get a decent brand capacitor, it's far less likely to fail than an electromechanical relay.

Also, I don't know about you, but the fewer clicky relays in my vicinity, the better. Really not a fan of the sound. I do have to put up with them to some degree, but the fewer, the better.


----------



## Rozay

Seraphim38 said:


> if you are talking about a power on pop, that can be a power surge that comes through from the source unit if the amplifier powers up before the source unit does.
> 
> I once was working at a show (professional live sound engineer) and we had a power on pop like this because the system wasn't powered on in the proper order. We didn't even hear the "thump", but the power on blew the voice coils of thirty two 12" midrange drivers.
> 
> Power on surges can cause your drivers into over excursion and shear voice coil suspension, causing driver failure.
> 
> Best way to combat this is to setup a power on relay that delays the amplifier power up for a second or two after the head unit and DSP powers up.


It's doesn't pop when I power on. Only when I power off but I already know the problem. My amps shuts off before the dsp. So I'm gonna slow down the amp turn off so the dsp shuts off first.


----------



## Rozay

InstantCrush said:


> No. Using a relay for something like that is absolutely ridiculous. Use an RC network.
> 
> What is it with car audio guys and using relays for absolutely everything? Especially considering almost nobody uses a flyback diode on them.


And ya I wasn't gonna use a relay.


----------



## subterFUSE

InstantCrush said:


> No. Using a relay for something like that is not a great idea. Use an RC network. Relays are larger and much less reliable and don't really inherently provide that long a delay (unless you used them with... an RC network) and are just unnecessary here. Proper engineering also requires a flyback diode with an electromechanical relay.
> 
> RC networks can be tuned and are extremely cheap and do not rely on mechanical switches which can fail and also do not need the flyback diode. The capacitor can fail but if you get a decent brand capacitor, it's far less likely to fail than an electromechanical relay.
> 
> Also, I don't know about you, but the fewer clicky relays in my vicinity, the better. Really not a fan of the sound. I do have to put up with them to some degree, but the fewer, the better.



Can you expand on the RC network explanation? I'm very interested in this topic but don't know much about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## subterFUSE

Rozay said:


> It's doesn't pop when I power on. Only when I power off but I already know the problem. My amps shuts off before the dsp. So I'm gonna slow down the amp turn off so the dsp shuts off first.



You want the amp to turn off first, then the DSP and the source off last.

Turn on should be the reverse. Source on first, then DSP and amps last.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InstantCrush

subterFUSE said:


> Can you expand on the RC network explanation? I'm very interested in this topic but don't know much about it.


With DC, a capacitor that is not charged has very low resistance and a capacitor that is charged has very high resistance. As voltage is applied to a capacitor, it takes a certain amount of time to charge and its resistance goes up as it does so. When you put it in series with a resistor, which has more or less constant resistance, the voltage ratio between the resistor and the capacitor changes as the capacitor charges, which can be useful in a delay circuit.

t=RC (R=resistance in ohms, C=capacitance in farads)

Each period of t (in seconds), the capacitor charges up by the difference between its current voltage and its supply voltage approximately 0.707 (the square root of 0.5 or 1 divided by the square root of 2). So the first period t, it charges up to 0.707 times the supply voltage. Then it charges up by the same ratio, but with lower amounts because it depends on the voltage difference.

In electronics, we generally consider a capacitor to be "close enough" to fully charged at about 5 times t. We call it T and T thus equals 5t.

Here's a calculator: RC time constant / voltage calcultor

You may have to tweak your values slightly from stuff you calculate to account for some variance in the supply voltage as well as the fact that some devices will turn on with less than 12V on their remote terminals. Really, you end up using a calculator like this to "ball park" some values then potentially tweak it. You could use a resistor plus a trimmer (a small potentiometer, which is a variable resistor) together to give yourself some adjustability.


----------



## bbfoto

InstantCrush said:


> With DC, a capacitor that is not charged has very low resistance and a capacitor that is charged has very high resistance. As voltage is applied to a capacitor, it takes a certain amount of time to charge and its resistance goes up as it does so. When you put it in series with a resistor, which has more or less constant resistance, the voltage ratio between the resistor and the capacitor changes as the capacitor charges, which can be useful in a delay circuit.
> 
> t=RC (R=resistance in ohms, C=capacitance in farads)
> 
> Each period of t (in seconds), the capacitor charges up by the difference between its current voltage and its supply voltage approximately 0.707 (the square root of 0.5 or 1 divided by the square root of 2). So the first period t, it charges up to 0.707 times the supply voltage. Then it charges up by the same ratio, but with lower amounts because it depends on the voltage difference.
> 
> In electronics, we generally consider a capacitor to be "close enough" to fully charged at about 5 times t. We call it T and T thus equals 5t.
> 
> Here's a calculator: RC time constant / voltage calcultor
> 
> You may have to tweak your values slightly from stuff you calculate to account for some variance in the supply voltage as well as the fact that some devices will turn on with less than 12V on their remote terminals. Really, you end up using a calculator like this to "ball park" some values then potentially tweak it. You could use a resistor plus a trimmer (a small potentiometer, which is a variable resistor) together to give yourself some adjustability.


Nice write-up.

If you guys are looking for a quick and relatively inexpensive solution, take a look at Navone Engineering (David Navone's web site)...

Navone Engineering Inc. » Amp On/Off Pop Eliminators

Navone Engineering Inc. » Products

.


----------



## reath1

I know this has been asked, answered and probably beat to death. About to hook up the Pro. Someone who has installed it please confirm if below is correct. TIA.
Most is self explanatory but just verifying as the book isn't very clear.

+= Constant Hot
-= Ground
Remote In= Remote out from HU
Remote Out= Remote out to amps


----------



## Babs

reath1 said:


> I know this has been asked, answered and probably beat to death. About to hook up the Pro. Someone who has installed it please confirm if below is correct. TIA.
> Most is self explanatory but just verifying as the book isn't very clear.
> 
> += Constant Hot
> -= Ground
> Remote In= Remote out from HU
> Remote Out= Remote out to amps


In the immortal words of a good friend of mine. Winner winner chicken dinner!  Yep, you got it. I've found with the regular DSP I even find myself referring to both the regular and the pro manual for something that may be common but not covered so well in one but is in the other. While AF's tuning guides are pretty thorough, their install manuals are just what they are.. AF has spent more time improving the software tool and products themselves thank goodness.


----------



## InstantCrush

reath1 said:


> I know this has been asked, answered and probably beat to death. About to hook up the Pro. Someone who has installed it please confirm if below is correct. TIA.
> Most is self explanatory but just verifying as the book isn't very clear.
> 
> += Constant Hot
> -= Ground
> Remote In= Remote out from HU
> Remote Out= Remote out to amps


Since you asked about people who have installed one, I will first say that I have not (I would sure like to, though).

However, lots of other car audio gear has the same labeling including "remote in" and "remote out"

Your understanding is 100% correct. Also, just to set your mind at ease slightly, if you did get the remote leads backwards, nothing would break (though your gear might not turn on until you fix it depending on how the internal circuit connects the two together).


----------



## reath1

Thanks guys, wasn't scared though. 

The Pro is replacing a 3Sixty.3 and an H800 which were both pulled out several weeks ago. In a "post nap" stupor I walked out and looked at the wiring in the car...then the booklet and asked the question before I thought through it clearly...lol.


----------



## bradknob

Anyone use the input EQ yet? I'm sure it's used similar to the JL clean sweep. It "cleans" or flattens the oem signal before processing. The factory amp in my jeep EQs and X-overs the oem signal before it gets to the helix.

Just curious if you would need to run some pink noise with a mic plugged into the helix in order for it to read the oem response. Or does it just pick it up without the mic?


----------



## subterFUSE

bradknob said:


> Anyone use the input EQ yet? I'm sure it's used similar to the JL clean sweep. It "cleans" or flattens the oem signal before processing. The factory amp in my jeep EQs and X-overs the oem signal before it gets to the helix.
> 
> Just curious if you would need to run some pink noise with a mic plugged into the helix in order for it to read the oem response. Or does it just pick it up without the mic?



I have not used it yet because I have all optical inputs in my setup, and the Input EQ is only for analog ins.

However, in theory you should be able to measure the input source with REW as follows:

Plug you sound card output into your source unit, if possible.
Connect the source unit to the DSP analog input.
Connect one of the outputs of the DSP to an input on the computer sound card.
In the input matrix, route the audio from the analog input to the out of that goes to the sound card. Set the sound card output to full range, and leave it unprocessed.
Run a full range sweep in REW. The sweep will pass thru your source unit and then the DSP and then come out and back into the sound card. REW will display the frequency response. You can then use the auto EQ feature to generate parametric EQ values to flatten the response. Enter the values and measure again. This time the FR should be flatter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bradknob

Makes sense..... Guess I should have stated that all I have is a USB mic


----------



## brumledb

How would I know if my input signal has time delay? Is there any way to test this? Currently using an MS8 but I have a P-six that I am switching to. I have a 2014 GMC Sierra. I am getting the signal before the factory amp. I have read a lot of vehicles insert the factory time alignment and crossovers at the amp. So maybe my signal is clean?


----------



## subterFUSE

brumledb said:


> How would I know if my input signal has time delay? Is there any way to test this? Currently using an MS8 but I have a P-six that I am switching to. I have a 2014 GMC Sierra. I am getting the signal before the factory amp. I have read a lot of vehicles insert the factory time alignment and crossovers at the amp. So maybe my signal is clean?



95% certain that the factory DSP would be inside the amp. If you are intercepting the signal before the amp, you should be fine.

How does the OEM source deliver signal to the amp?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## brumledb

subterFUSE said:


> 95% certain that the factory DSP would be inside the amp. If you are intercepting the signal before the amp, you should be fine.
> 
> How does the OEM source deliver signal to the amp?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


High level. That's one of those things I really don't understand. Why auto manufacturers can't/don't/won't include RCA outputs on headunit. 

So, hypothetically speaking, let's say the dsp was in the headunit and the input signal arrived at dsp with factory time alignment and eq'ing. If you connected to the dsp via the process you described earlier, would you be to see any of this in REW?


----------



## axipher

brumledb said:


> High level. That's one of those things I really don't understand. Why auto manufacturers can't/don't/won't include RCA outputs on headunit.
> 
> So, hypothetically speaking, let's say the dsp was in the headunit and the input signal arrived at dsp with factory time alignment and eq'ing. If you connected to the dsp via the process you described earlier, would you be to see any of this in REW?


I haven't done the testing myself yet, but from what I understand, the impulse measurements with loop back should give you the timing offset of each measurement so you would have to do each speaker individually then adjust each one accordingly.

I'm waiting till I get my new JL 4 channel in before I start playing with REW in my car.


----------



## subterFUSE

brumledb said:


> High level. That's one of those things I really don't understand. Why auto manufacturers can't/don't/won't include RCA outputs on headunit.
> 
> So, hypothetically speaking, let's say the dsp was in the headunit and the input signal arrived at dsp with factory time alignment and eq'ing. If you connected to the dsp via the process you described earlier, would you be to see any of this in REW?


No.... I mean how does the OEM head unit connect to the OEM amp?
I'm not asking how the DSP is connected to the OEM system.

Do they use a single proprietary cable, or are there a whole bunch of cables? I'm trying to figure out where the crossover is located, because that will pretty much tell you where the DSP is happening in the OEM system.

For example, if the head unit is simply outputting stereo to the OEM amp, and then the OEM amp outputs multiple speaker outputs.... then you will know that any time alignment would be happening at the amp because you need to have separate output channels for time alignment to function.




Anyway, as for how to test, you would have to find a way to run the output from the computer sound card into the OEM head unit. Then you would route a channel out of the DSP back into the sound card for loopback timing. And you would route the channel being measured from the DSP into the sound card.

When you run a sweep, you could compare the impulse response charts to determine if there is a timing difference between OEM outputs.


----------



## brumledb

subterFUSE said:


> No.... I mean how does the OEM head unit connect to the OEM amp?
> I'm not asking how the DSP is connected to the OEM system.
> 
> Do they use a single proprietary cable, or are there a whole bunch of cables? I'm trying to figure out where the crossover is located, because that will pretty much tell you where the DSP is happening in the OEM system.
> 
> For example, if the head unit is simply outputting stereo to the OEM amp, and then the OEM amp outputs multiple speaker outputs.... then you will know that any time alignment would be happening at the amp because you need to have separate output channels for time alignment to function.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, as for how to test, you would have to find a way to run the output from the computer sound card into the OEM head unit. Then you would route a channel out of the DSP back into the sound card for loopback timing. And you would route the channel being measured from the DSP into the sound card.
> 
> When you run a sweep, you could compare the impulse response charts to determine if there is a timing difference between OEM outputs.


Yeah I knew you meant from the h/u to the factory amp but I wasn't sure if all vehicles only send high level signal. I have only ever dealt with Chevy's/GMC's and Toyotas. 

Anyways, here is a pic of the factory amp. 

http://www.silveradosierra.com/reso...p-the-subwoofer-speaker-wires-are-on-t/113697

I am pretty certain the dsp functions take place in the stock amp.

I found this thread about measuring time delay. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...45484-measure-time-delay-t-arta-roomeq-5.html

That is the same process you were describing right?


----------



## Guest

I haven't seen this mentioned, so I'll ask... is there a menu option to delay amplifier turn off or turn on to eliminate thumps or pops ?


----------



## subterFUSE

SQ_TSX said:


> I haven't seen this mentioned, so I'll ask... is there a menu option to delay amplifier turn off or turn on to eliminate thumps or pops ?



The remote output is delayed, but it is not a user adjustable delay. At least, not that I am aware of.

There is a Power Save feature which turns off the amps when there is no sound playing. That feature has a timer which is used adjustable. But it's not the same feature you are asking about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wrangler

SQ_TSX said:


> I haven't seen this mentioned, so I'll ask... is there a menu option to delay amplifier turn off or turn on to eliminate thumps or pops ?


I have a P SIX DSP, and it thumps all speakers including line output.
I've emailed the manufacture and they have been no help.
My head unit is a Jeep 8.4an, which stays hidden active for 30 seconds, even with it deactivated when engine shuts off....
It would be nice to have a remote turn on feature excluding the high level input, it probably would help.
If you find anything please post.


----------



## subterFUSE

wrangler said:


> I have a P SIX DSP, and it thumps all speakers including line output.
> I've emailed the manufacture and they have been no help.
> My head unit is a Jeep 8.4an, which stays hidden active for 30 seconds, even with it deactivated when engine shuts off....
> It would be nice to have a remote turn on feature excluding the high level input, it probably would help.
> If you find anything please post.



You are using high level inputs?

Are you using a remote in on the P six?

What is your Power Save setting in the DCM menu?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wrangler

subterFUSE said:


> You are using high level inputs?
> 
> Are you using a remote in on the P six?
> 
> What is your Power Save setting in the DCM menu?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, hi level inputs.
No to remote input, high level activates the DSP, as intended.
30 seconds, also tried it in defeat mode, as well as 10 seconds and 60 seconds.


----------



## reath1

When I open up the software on my desktop the window is full size. When I open it up on my laptop it's undersized and not really viewable. 

Any ideas here guys?

Thanks


----------



## thebookfreak58

reath1 said:


> When I open up the software on my desktop the window is full size. When I open it up on my laptop it's undersized and not really viewable.
> 
> Any ideas here guys?
> 
> Thanks


The app is fixed resolution. Your desktop must be low res.

A few months ago Helix said they were working on a full app re-write.

Not sure what the status is now.


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## reath1

I adjusted my laptop screen resolution and got it "workable" but definitely not optimal.

Thanks


----------



## subterFUSE

thebookfreak58 said:


> The app is fixed resolution. Your desktop must be low res.
> 
> A few months ago Helix said they were working on a full app re-write.
> 
> Not sure what the status is now.




OSX version!!! Seriously....


----------



## reath1

Ok, got past that. Now no output at all from the amps. Any ideas?


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> OSX version!!! Seriously....


And dare I say it? Yes.. I'm gonna say it.. Here it comes.. iOS!


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> And dare I say it? Yes.. I'm gonna say it.. Here it comes.. iOS!



You could get a dbx DriveRack VENU360. It has iPad app control. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> You could get a dbx DriveRack VENU360. It has iPad app control.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OOoooooohhh That's sick!  
Drive safe!


----------



## reath1

Still no output. Tried to do a reset on it. Steady blinking read light. Anyone know what that means?

They could have spent just a few more dollars on the instruction manual.


----------



## piyush7243

reath1 said:


> Still no output. Tried to do a reset on it. Steady blinking read light. Anyone know what that means?
> 
> They could have spent just a few more dollars on the instruction manual.


It means you have not saved a set in any of the presets. 

Which software version you are using? 

Connect n do some crossover settings n save it n let it write to dsp on your chosen preset

Disconnect n reconnect n try to load the preset

Sent from my X9076 using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

reath1 said:


> Still no output. Tried to do a reset on it. Steady blinking read light. Anyone know what that means?
> 
> They could have spent just a few more dollars on the instruction manual.



You can download them all from Audiotec-Fischer's website but since this was close at hand...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwilEarPfKvuVms0Zi1XRHNkVkk


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## reath1

Found out that the DSP had an older version of the software, laptop had the latest. Somehow that kept the DSP from taking or saving any settings. Brought DSP up THEN started the software and it caught it and updated the DSP.

Up and running now.

Thanks to all.

supterFUSE...MANY Thanks!


----------



## susedan

Anyone have a tip on how I can upload the .frd info for my umik-1? I'd like to give the RTA feature a whirl  

I see the mic connected, but not sure what format the file should be in or how to load it.


----------



## subterFUSE

susedan said:


> Anyone have a tip on how I can upload the .frd info for my umik-1? I'd like to give the RTA feature a whirl
> 
> 
> 
> I see the mic connected, but not sure what format the file should be in or how to load it.



Yes. I did it on mine.

It's a little complicated so gimme a little time to post the process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## palmerosa

I'm also having trouble getting any audio with getting any sound using the fiber optic cable from my alpine X009. I'm sure it's a setting somewhere but I can't find it. It was working before I got the director and tried to set it up with the digital output from the hu to the helix. I did experience a few blast of sound through the speakers when first setting it up which I saw after reading this post I wasn't the only one to have that issue. I don't have the hec and was told it wasn't needed to set up for digital sound. That was one difference I saw between my setup and a few of the others on here that also had some problems. If someone could help me figure this out I would really appreciate it.


----------



## captainobvious

palmerosa said:


> I'm also having trouble getting any audio with getting any sound using the fiber optic cable from my alpine X009. I'm sure it's a setting somewhere but I can't find it. It was working before I got the director and tried to set it up with the digital output from the hu to the helix. I did experience a few blast of sound through the speakers when first setting it up which I saw after reading this post I wasn't the only one to have that issue. I don't have the hec and was told it wasn't needed to set up for digital sound. That was one difference I saw between my setup and a few of the others on here that also had some problems. If someone could help me figure this out I would really appreciate it.


First, make sure your head unit is outputting over the digital optical cable. Unplug the end from the dsp and check to make sure you see the red light coming through the cable.
Next, make sure you have the input routing set up. 

Here's a snap shot (attached). Notice how under "Main Routing" it has the digital in's assigned. Try mimicking this on yours.
What volume control are you using for the digital source? The Director or the URC? It needs to be enabled/checked in the DCM menu. And make sure the first time you fire up the system with these changes that you keep your source on CD and that you DO NOT have a cd in. This will allow the system to come on and not blast you at full volume which may be default with the digital source.
After this, adjust the volume of the digital source with the URC or Director controller up to about half for now. Then put in your cd and slowly adjust the master volume up until you hear audio. You'll then be able to adjust the digital volume up to where you want it and same with the master volume.

EDIT: Note that in my snap shot I don't have anything assigned to the G and H outputs. That's because I don't have any speakers connected to those outputs.


----------



## palmerosa

I do have light from the optical cable and the alpine has optical showing on the display. So I think I'm good on that end. I made the changes to what you had in the IO menu. Mine was close to that except I had digital chosen for the analog table. I change mine to what you had exactly. I'm using the director setting in the DCM table with the power save mode disabled. 
On the director I am using the digital volume section and I still have no sound. I'm starting to think I have a problem with something other than a setting. It says on the DCM menu the director is connected so I think that's good. I just can't get any output.


----------



## subterFUSE

In the DCM menu do you have the digital input set for manual or auto detect?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## palmerosa

Right now I have manual just because I was trying something different than what I had before which was auto detection.


----------



## subterFUSE

palmerosa said:


> Right now I have manual just because I was trying something different than what I had before which was auto detection.



Set for manual on both Digital and AUX sides.

In the Director, digital volume should be full. Source should be main.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## palmerosa

Will do as soon as I charge the battery back up in the truck. I started noticing that the hu wasn't doing right to the point I was thinking what now is going wrong!! Then I realized the battery was just about dead from all the time I have been in the truck adjusting the settings last night and this morning. Who knows that might have something to do with some of the problems I'm having not getting any audio. But as soon as it charges I'll make those adjustments and see what happens. Thanks for all y'all's help.


----------



## palmerosa

Rock and Roll baby!!!! That did it !!!!! I couldn't believe my ears when I made that switch and there it was. 3 doors down never sounded so good. Thanks guys.


----------



## palmerosa

Nevermind. It's amazing what one can overlook when they get excited and in a hurry. Just needed to crank the gains up and problem solved. Thanks again for your help here guys!!


----------



## Guest

Make sure those channels arn't muted...


----------



## subterFUSE

SQ_TSX said:


> Make sure those channels arn't muted...






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

palmerosa said:


> I got so excited to hear anything coming through the speakers I failed to noticed the subs are not working. They are channels G & H on the dsp. Any advice on what I need to do for the subs to start working?
> 
> I really cranked the volume and find the subs are working just not as loud as before with the rca's. I do have the sub volume in the director turned all the way up.



In your input routing/main routing, make sure you have inputs G and H set as "subwoofer1". Should have Digital In L 100% on "G" and Digital In R 100% on "H".
Then make sure your subwoofer volume is turned up on the director controller itself.


EDIT: If it's still not enough volume, then go into the DSP "Main" menu and for output G and output H, raise the "channel gain and output level" slider until its at the right volume for you. Tip- make sure both G and H have the SAME output level. Also, raise the output in the DSP with these sliders to MORE than you need and then go into the controller and lower it. This allows you some room to raise the sub volume from the controller while on the road when needed.


----------



## Babs

palmerosa said:


> Rock and Roll baby!!!! That did it !!!!! I couldn't believe my ears when I made that switch and there it was. 3 doors down never sounded so good. Thanks guys.


Jealous! I'm so done with RCA's and multiple conversions. If my little HDMI to toslink box works well, I'm gonna be hard-pressed not to consider an iPad Mini dash.


----------



## susedan

subterFUSE said:


> Yes. I did it on mine.
> 
> It's a little complicated so gimme a little time to post the process.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That would be great! I gave it a try earlier but it seemed pretty far off


----------



## palmerosa

I had the gains turned all the way down on the sub amp. Once I cranked it up I could tell they were on, just not thumping like I like them to. On the advice of making sure you don't have a signal when trying to set up for digital. Anyone doing this in the future make sure to do that. That was in the top 5 loudest sounds I have ever heard in my life. Take nascar and X 2 and you maybe close to what that level is like. Think of an explosion going off in each ear for .25 of a second. I wouldn't recommend it. And I did it twice before unplugging all but 2 of the rca's and once through those 2 channels. I'm still not clear on what caused it but it can't be good on your speakers or your ears. ?


----------



## susedan

subterFUSE said:


> Yes. I did it on mine.
> 
> It's a little complicated so gimme a little time to post the process.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Update: By the looks of it, I've figured it out.

I'll create another post for anyone searching in the future.


----------



## susedan

*RTA Mode with Custom Mic FR*
To create a custom calibration file for your umik-1 or any other compatible usb mic, you'll need to edit the cal.txt file -- C:/Program Files (x86)/ATF DSP PC-Tool VERSION/cal.txt -- where VERSION is the release number of the currently installed DSP software. In my case it's "ATF DSP PC-Tool 3.20a"

You must provide 1/3 octave measurements (25Hz - 20kHz) for it to work properly. Cross Spectrum Labs provided these with my mic purchase. I'm using my 90 degree calibration and the CSL file is labeled "one_third_octave_band_response_90_degree.frd".

Now that we've found the files this is straightforward. Open the cal.txt file and have a look at the format of the file... 
1/3 octave frequency -> measurement
1/3 octave frequency -> measurement
1/3 octave frequency -> measurement
....

With your mic measurements handy, enter the value to the right of each frequency. 

Save the cal.txt file. DONE


CSL FILE DETAIL
If you have a CSL file open it and copy all text from this file to the clipboard -- CTRL+A then CTRL+C -- Paste the contents into cal.txt -- CTRL+A then CTRL+V

Depending on your OS and text editor you may see the line breaks or it may appear as a long string of numbers. If it's a long line of digits hit return after every third value so it appears like the following...
5 -6.77 0
6.3 -5.05 0
8 -3.48 0
...

The CSL file has some extra frequencies at the beginning and end of the file that are not applicable in the helix cal.txt file, delete the lines that correlate to frequencies below 25Hz and above 20kHz. Lastly, remove the 0 at the end of each line. Not sure if that's necessary but it wasn't an option in the example file so I removed it.

Save the cal.txt, Done


----------



## palmerosa

This might have been answered already and I overlooked it. If so I apologize. Does the start up volume menu on the director have anything else that needs to be checked so it will work for the digital settings? It doesn't seem to matter which box I click in that menu when I start the vehicle again the volume is exactly where it was when I turned it off. Which can be a little loud sometimes if it's first thing in the morning and I had it way up the night before.


----------



## captainobvious

palmerosa said:


> This might have been answered already and I overlooked it. If so I apologize. Does the start up volume menu on the director have anything else that needs to be checked so it will work for the digital settings? It doesn't seem to matter which box I click in that menu when I start the vehicle again the volume is exactly where it was when I turned it off. Which can be a little loud sometimes if it's first thing in the morning and I had it way up the night before.


Just use the volume limiter function from the Director controller. Go to the system settings and you'll see it under there. Set the volume limiter on startup to -30 or -45 and you'll be all set. The dsp should startup at the last volume setting you used, unless you have this feature engaged. I don't think it controls the digital volume, only the Master Volume limit. Which should still be fine if you have the digital maxed all the way. A -45db master volume limit should really drop the output on startup for you. If you have max digital volume and the -45db is still way too loud on the master, then I'd recommend turning down the gains on your amps because they are probably way too high and you can lower your noise floor of the system as a bonus.


----------



## palmerosa

The problem is the start up volume will be the same level as it was last set when the system was turned off. For ex if I have the -45db box checked so it doesn't start up at twice that volume if that's where it was when it was turned off. The problem is that it doesn't seem to make any difference which start up volume level I choose it always starts exactly where the volume was turned off. I want the start up level to start up less since it's usually turned up high when I turn off the system. 
This is with me using the master control as my volume controler even though I'm using a fiber optical digital connection from the hu to the processor. I do have the digital volume setting turned all the way up on the director but that doesn't seem to make much difference either.


----------



## captainobvious

palmerosa said:


> The problem is the start up volume will be the same level as it was last set when the system was turned off. For ex if I have the -45db box checked so it doesn't start up at twice that volume if that's where it was when it was turned off. The problem is that it doesn't seem to make any difference which start up volume level I choose it always starts exactly where the volume was turned off. I want the start up level to start up less since it's usually turned up high when I turn off the system.
> This is with me using the master control as my volume controler even though I'm using a fiber optical digital connection from the hu to the processor. I do have the digital volume setting turned all the way up on the director but that doesn't seem to make much difference either.




Hmmm, that is not normal operation. You may have some corrupt data in the DSP. I'd recommend doing a full reset/default to factory settings and reload the latest dsp software on the unit.


----------



## palmerosa

sorry had a double post


----------



## ndm

captainobvious said:


> Hmmm, that is not normal operation. You may have some corrupt data in the DSP. I'd recommend doing a full reset/default to factory settings and reload the latest dsp software on the unit.





palmerosa said:


> The problem is the start up volume will be the same level as it was last set when the system was turned off. For ex if I have the -45db box checked so it doesn't start up at twice that volume if that's where it was when it was turned off. The problem is that it doesn't seem to make any difference which start up volume level I choose it always starts exactly where the volume was turned off. I want the start up level to start up less since it's usually turned up high when I turn off the system.
> This is with me using the master control as my volume controler even though I'm using a fiber optical digital connection from the hu to the processor. I do have the digital volume setting turned all the way up on the director but that doesn't seem to make much difference either.


Not being a smarty-pants....but why can you not train yourself to simply turn the volume down before you shut your car off? 

Example-After my son was born, I scared the crap out of him while he was sleeping and everyone else in the car when I started my jeep. I learned quickly to turn it down every time and very very rarely do I make that mistake. 

Not to mention, I turn my stereo down whenever I pull on my street to keep from disturbing the neighbors when I am rocking out.


----------



## palmerosa

Well the thing is that it's a shame to have such a great feature that would correct something such as having the music blaring wide open the next start up if you did forget to turn the volume down, and not to take advantage of it. This is a really nice option to have here that has come as a factory option on some other vehicles I've owned over the years and once you experience it you don't want to go without it if you have a choice. It may be like you don't know what you had till its gone. So if you never had it option then course you wouldn't miss not having it. Not only does the director have this function but it goes even further and allows you to choose the level of output you want for the next startup. 
But back to the issue. I think I have it figured out. The way I had the volume control setup on the director by choosing the master volume for controlling the volume would not allow use of this option. When I selected the digital volume control and started using it, then it started working like a champ. I don't see where I lose anything by choosing the digital volume control over the master volume control so that's what I did to get it working.


----------



## Babs

Any of you guys use the SHELF filter on these? Figured a Helix-specific thread would be appropriate for the question. In a 2-way I think my mids present a scenario that would benefit by it. They have a crazy raw response in doors I think a shelf filter could help for broad shaping below oh 5-600hz or so. Beaming or some kind of off-axis or other door stuff is killing them from there up to the 1959hz xo point. 

Un-EQ'd:









On side note.. If ever there was argument to go 3-way this would be it. All that midbass cheddar, but can't let them boogie without trouble in upper midrange shaping. Wonder if way overlapping the low-pass might help that upper midrange weakness? Will have to play with it. What a terrible dip they both have. 

Makes me think would door absorption with something like Infinity Blox or other in-door safe absorption help. That would suggest back waves are the culprit. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Corradokid666

Evening gents, new to this forum but seems like a lot of good information floating about on this processor. I currently have a bit one running only digital inputs, one from airport express and the other from a Audison dmi converting most signal. It's only recently been installed but suffers from bad pops when switching digital inputs and also when turning off and on whilst synching. It's not your usual pops on startup but happens when it starts getting a digital input. It also suffers from hiss on the digital inputs when no signal. A brief look around here shows a few people having the same issues and I'm wondering if this could be resolved by replacing with the helix unit. The pops are so loud sometimes it appears that it has blown one of my tweeters. 

Can I also ask if anyone is using the optional optical input board will it auto sense between the different digital inputs? Thanks in advance


----------



## WestCo

Corradokid666 said:


> Evening gents, new to this forum but seems like a lot of good information floating about on this processor. I currently have a bit one running only digital inputs, one from airport express and the other from a Audison dmi converting most signal. It's only recently been installed but suffers from bad pops when switching digital inputs and also when turning off and on whilst synching. It's not your usual pops on startup but happens when it starts getting a digital input. It also suffers from hiss on the digital inputs when no signal. A brief look around here shows a few people having the same issues and I'm wondering if this could be resolved by replacing with the helix unit. The pops are so loud sometimes it appears that it has blown one of my tweeters.
> 
> Can I also ask if anyone is using the optional optical input board will it auto sense between the different digital inputs? Thanks in advance


If I recall correctly you can only use one of the Helix digital inputs at a time (without manually changing the active input by a movable switch on the physical unit). 

You can set the unit to prioritize RCA input or digital input. And there is a $60 controller you can buy to switch analog/digital input manually. 

Someone correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Corradokid666

WestCo said:


> If I recall correctly you can only use one of the Helix digital inputs at a time (without manually changing the active input by a movable switch on the physical unit).
> 
> You can set the unit to prioritize RCA input or digital input. And there is a $60 controller you can buy to switch analog/digital input manually.
> 
> Someone correct me if I am wrong.


Yep that's the way I read it in the manual but there is also an optional board for extra optical input which I'd need. What I'm keen to find out is if the unit could auto switch between these two as it would eliminate the need for me to get the director also.


----------



## subterFUSE

Helix Pro has 1 optical and 1 coax digital input on the primary board. These are an either or choice. You can't run both. There is a switch on the side of the DSP to select optical or coax.


There is an accessory HEC module that adds a second digital input (again, one optical one coax).


The DSP has 2 choices for selecting inputs. There is a manual select option which uses either the wired remote control, or the new Director controller.
There is also the option to use Auto Signal Detection to switch to an input.
So, you technically don't need a controller to use both digital inputs. You just have to set the Auto Detection feature and pick which one of the inputs will be the Priority.



I am running the DSP Pro with 2 digital sources, both optical. It works great.


----------



## Corradokid666

subterFUSE said:


> Helix Pro has 1 optical and 1 coax digital input on the primary board. These are an either or choice. You can't run both. There is a switch on the side of the DSP to select optical or coax.
> 
> 
> There is an accessory HEC module that adds a second digital input (again, one optical one coax).
> 
> 
> The DSP has 2 choices for selecting inputs. There is a manual select option which uses either the wired remote control, or the new Director controller.
> There is also the option to use Auto Signal Detection to switch to an input.
> So, you technically don't need a controller to use both digital inputs. You just have to set the Auto Detection feature and pick which one of the inputs will be the Priority.
> 
> 
> 
> I am running the DSP Pro with 2 digital sources, both optical. It works great.


Thanks for that, sounds good. I tend to use the system more so far with the oem intergrated dmi, and the AirPlay when I feel like a change. So in theory could I set the airport express to primary, and when it recieves that input it would override the factory output? Seeing as the bit dmi is probably outputting the factory signal this seems to make sense to me. I take it you've had no issues with pops or general noise with this unit?


----------



## pcpete

Just installed my DSP PRO this weekend. coming from a PPI DSP 88R.

Just did a basic crossover and TA setup, no phase or EQ yet, sounds great!

I'm strictly using a digital source, from a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8 to an SMSL X-USB converter. It outputs up to 192/24 on either optical or coax, I'm using the coax.

The Tab S2 up-samples all audio(Tunein, Spotify, Gonemad Music Player etc) to 192/24, and the SMSL's display reflects this.

The Helix handles this with no problem. Based on its specs, the Helix then should be down sampling this to 96/24 and then processing.

I've also used UAPP (USB Audio Player PRO) which by passes the android audio system and sends the audio out bit perfect.

I've tried all kinds of flacs, ie 192/24, 176.4/24, 96/24, 88.2/24 , 48/24 , 44.1/16, and the Helix had no problems converting them to 96/24.

I'm using a couple of 10k pots to control Digital volume and Sub volume as per erinh write up, and that works great as well!

Next up is some RTA with a UMIK USB mic.

So overall, loving it! My PPI wasn't bad, but damn was it glitchy...the Helix has been rock solid!


----------



## AVIDEDTR

From Julian himself this morning.

Brax, Helix, Match by Audiotec Fischer Hello,
here are the answers to your questions.

#1 Is there plans to update the GUI?
Yes, there are plans but there is no ETA yet because the rework takes a lot of time.

#2 can the software be password protected
This option is already available in the DCM menu at the PC-Tool config page for all devices in the latest DSP PC-Tool

#3 allow the unresizable window to be sizable.
Resizable is unfortunately not possible with this kind of graphical user interface

#4 show voltage/temp at the gui
There are plans to allow an access to this data for upcoming devices

With best regards
Audiotec Fischer


----------



## subterFUSE

New DSP software 3.28b now available.

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> New DSP software 3.28b now available.
> 
> PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


Man you're fast!! I think I had just checked yesterday for giggles. 
I noticed also P Six DSP *MK2* is listed and supported.. Interesting


----------



## subterFUSE

Director firmware 1.30 now available.

DIRECTOR support site - downloads, updates and questions & answers, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## lashlee

Has anyone asked ATF if they will make either USB an option? I've got a Director but haven't installed it partially due to having to remove and rewire the USB cable.

On a related note, what's the best way to mount the Director? I know the screw ports on the back are an option, but I miss the simple C701 cradle option.


----------



## lashlee

Alright, I need some help! I hooked up my Director last night, updated the firmware, and I'm using 3.28b. I've got a brief (roughly 2 seconds) of static (almost like pink noise) that comes through when I change sound setups using the Director. The static comes in about 6 seconds after you initiate the change. It doesn't happen when changing presets using the laptop, and it happens regardless of the volume of the H/U or the master volume of the Director. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## subterFUSE

New software update available.

3.28c


PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## subterFUSE

lashlee said:


> Alright, I need some help! I hooked up my Director last night, updated the firmware, and I'm using 3.28b. I've got a brief (roughly 2 seconds) of static (almost like pink noise) that comes through when I change sound setups using the Director. The static comes in about 6 seconds after you initiate the change. It doesn't happen when changing presets using the laptop, and it happens regardless of the volume of the H/U or the master volume of the Director. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


What is your Director firmware version?


----------



## susedan

lashlee said:


> Alright, I need some help! I hooked up my Director last night, updated the firmware, and I'm using 3.28b. I've got a brief (roughly 2 seconds) of static (almost like pink noise) that comes through when I change sound setups using the Director. The static comes in about 6 seconds after you initiate the change. It doesn't happen when changing presets using the laptop, and it happens regardless of the volume of the H/U or the master volume of the Director. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



If you play a zero db track and the the director main volume all the way up, does it output the same sound?


----------



## lashlee

subter: 1.30 is the firmware on the Director. I eventually contacted Jonas at ATF and he helped me out. In my setup I have a PG DD5 controlling remote turn on. Per Jonas, when the DSP initiates a sound setup change it turns off the amp to remove the transmission of noise to the amps. I swapped my remote leads to the DSP Pro and the noise is gone. I still have a random turn on noise (not really a pop but that's to be figured out later) but the static is gone. I still don't understand why it only occurred on #1 and #2. Oh well!!

susedan: I usually run the Director volume all the way up but didn't try with a specific disc. It happened with every source selected at the H/U and with the H/U volume all the way down, or the Director volume all the way down. 

Now on the task of making a mount for it!

As a side note, Jonas (and ATF) were very willing to help out. Excellent service and knowledge!


----------



## Corradokid666

I've recently replaced a bit one with a dsp pro and all the previous issues Appear to have gone but I've noticed a new one, on some CDs it appears that the first second or so is cut off when the track changes, if I skip back to the start it plays fine? It's only input is digital via a bit dmi connected to most network.


----------



## subterFUSE

Corradokid666 said:


> I've recently replaced a bit one with a dsp pro and all the previous issues Appear to have gone but I've noticed a new one, on some CDs it appears that the first second or so is cut off when the track changes, if I skip back to the start it plays fine? It's only input is digital via a bit dmi connected to most network.



It's the release timer on the auto signal detection.

Switch to manual or increase the release time.

It's in the DCM menu


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Corradokid666

Thank you, I will have a look tomorrow and try a different setting.


----------



## Guest

Hello guys,

I have a silly question... Where and how do you load calibration files for a microphone on the Helix DSP Pro ?


----------



## Babs

SQ_TSX said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> 
> I have a silly question... Where and how do you load calibration files for a microphone on the Helix DSP Pro ?



In the RTA section. I believe in the top of the setup screen. Just from memory. Could be wrong. Might need to create a manual file in the correct format from your mic's cal file. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

SQ_TSX said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have a silly question... Where and how do you load calibration files for a microphone on the Helix DSP Pro ?


It's a little complicated, but I have done it.

You have to locate the text file in the program folder for the software. Open the text file in an editor and then copy/paste the calibration into that text file.

I can probably upload a template file from my computer for you.


----------



## susedan

SQ_TSX said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> 
> I have a silly question... Where and how do you load calibration files for a microphone on the Helix DSP Pro ?


 
RTA Mode with Custom Mic FR
http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3112561


----------



## Guest

susedan said:


> RTA Mode with Custom Mic FR
> Helix DSP Pro - Who has info? - Page 36 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum


THANK YOU SIR !

Found the text file.... sounds pretty simple...

Thank you again


----------



## susedan

SQ_TSX said:


> THANK YOU SIR !
> 
> 
> 
> Found the text file.... sounds pretty simple...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you again



The instructions make it look more difficult than it is. Takes about five minutes


----------



## palmerosa

Not sure if this question belongs in with this post. If not my apologies. My question is now I am running digital from my alpine x009 to the helix pro the audio for the bt, nav, and the rear sensors beeping sound no longer works. I thought it was maybe some setting on the alpine hu that was causing this but I spoke with tech support at alpine and they explained this was due to the fact I have chosen to run the system for digital using fiber optic cable and the other options are setup for analog. He said he didn't think I could do anything to get the nav, hands free bt audio, and most important the rear beeping sound that alerts you before backing into anything. He is right? Is there anyway to et audio for these other options?


----------



## subterFUSE

palmerosa said:


> Not sure if this question belongs in with this post. If not my apologies. My question is now I am running digital from my alpine x009 to the helix pro the audio for the bt, nav, and the rear sensors beeping sound no longer works. I thought it was maybe some setting on the alpine hu that was causing this but I spoke with tech support at alpine and they explained this was due to the fact I have chosen to run the system for digital using fiber optic cable and the other options are setup for analog. He said he didn't think I could do anything to get the nav, hands free bt audio, and most important the rear beeping sound that alerts you before backing into anything. He is right? Is there anyway to et audio for these other options?



What kind of car?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## palmerosa

2015 dodge ram 3500 truck. The alpine is the ram kit setup with the iDatalink link setup with maestro. There was a time I thought I had the rear sensors beeping issue working by running an extra speaker to the dash from the maestro ( it has a special harness to hook an extra speaker) but then I had to do a reset on the alpine hu and after that the beeping sound stopped working and no one can tell me how to reset it to work again. I'm not 100% sure when it was working that I was running the fiber optic cable at that time.


----------



## tarantula

Clarion HX-D2 optical to Helix DSP PRO - Works great!


----------



## Yawar538

tarantula said:


> Clarion HX-D2 optical to Helix DSP PRO - Works great!


Does the knob still regain volume control unlike hitting max which is quite heard of while using digital out to DSP??

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

palmerosa said:


> Not sure if this question belongs in with this post. If not my apologies. My question is now I am running digital from my alpine x009 to the helix pro the audio for the bt, nav, and the rear sensors beeping sound no longer works. I thought it was maybe some setting on the alpine hu that was causing this but I spoke with tech support at alpine and they explained this was due to the fact I have chosen to run the system for digital using fiber optic cable and the other options are setup for analog. He said he didn't think I could do anything to get the nav, hands free bt audio, and most important the rear beeping sound that alerts you before backing into anything. He is right? Is there anyway to et audio for these other options?


If those audio notification sounds are only on the Analog outputs of the Alpine X009, then you're going to have to connect the analog outs to your Helix DSP Pro.

I think there might be a way to get everything to work.


The Helix Pro has automatic signal detection on the Digital or AUX inputs.
If you put the analog outputs from the Alpine into the AUX inputs on the Helix, and then set the Auto Signal detection to give AUX "priority" and then have a 1 second "Release Time", it might be possible to have the digital source work as the Main source but then when the Alpine sends an analog signal the Helix would automatically switch over to the AUX input to give the NAV instructions, parking beeps, or whatever..... then after 1 second of silence, it would switch back to the Digital input.

To do this you must also do the following:


In the IO Menu, Main tab.... Route the Digital Left & Right inputs to the correct outputs for your setup.

Leave the Digital tab blank.

On the AUX/HEC tab, route the Analog inputs to the channels.




Give it a try. I think it should work, but obviously I've never tried it so I could be wrong.


----------



## BlackHHR

Alpine in digi mode mutes all other outputs. I have the same issue with my 957HD. Turn off the optical output and the navi voice over functions as normal. 
Unless Erin H has hacked the Alpine system, we have to live with it for now. 

Erin ?


----------



## BlackHHR

Yawar538 said:


> Does the knob still regain volume control unlike hitting max which is quite heard of while using digital out to DSP??
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


I am almost certain you will loose the volume control at the head unit. Also I am thinking it will be full max volume with out the director.


----------



## Yawar538

BlackHHR said:


> I am almost certain you will loose the volume control at the head unit. Also I am thinking it will be full max volume with out the director.


So while using any digital in on the dsp pro one HAS to get the remote. No way of controlling the volume in any other way possible?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

Yawar538 said:


> So while using any digital in on the dsp pro one HAS to get the remote. No way of controlling the volume in any other way possible?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


I almost want to say, with 100% certainty you will need to control the volume at the processor. 
Have you tried it yet?


----------



## Yawar538

BlackHHR said:


> I almost want to say, with 100% certainty you will need to control the volume at the processor.
> Have you tried it yet?


Nah. Install in process. Blocked out about whether to purchase the director or not.
Will be using standard Analog rca with 80prs as signal source and iPod hooked with ALACs.

Doing some research on the feasibility of going digital...

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

Yawar538 said:


> Nah. Install in process. Blocked out about whether to purchase the director or not.
> Will be using standard Analog rca with 80prs as signal source and iPod hooked with ALACs.
> 
> Doing some research on the feasibility of going digital...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


Digital into the helix and you will need the director.


----------



## narvarr

The other Helix remote works with the DSP Pro and is much cheaper I'm sure.


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## subterFUSE

Sounds like it's an Alpine problem.

You'll just have to give up Digital and go Analog. The only consolation is that the X009 does have good 24 bit D/A Converters.


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## palmerosa

I sure would hate to give up the digital output if there was anyway around it. I was told I could use a rca wire from the alpine labeled Beep/Navirg. That I could connect it to an aftermarket amp to handle the analog duties. The problem there is I don't really have the room to mount another amp. There may be a way to use the factory amp but that could be a little tricky as its also digital input. I'm not really sure which wires in the pre amp harness to make the connection. 
I still do think there may be someway to get the analog to work and keep the digital setup. I say this because at one time I was able to get the rear bumper sensor to work when connecting a test speaker to the maestro idatalink box. The problem was I was using butt connectors to connect the speaker to the maestro box when checking this option and they kept coming a loose. So I had maestro to send me the correct factory harness for the aux speaker connection and while waiting I had to do a factory reset on the alpine which lost all the settings I had setup when it was working. I also reset the helix dsp a few times waiting on the harness speaker connector to come in. Once the harness came in I hooked it up and the rear sensors no longer would beep. I have tried every setting I could find on the alpine to get the backup sensor to beep again. I know, I should have wrote them all down. But now after not having any luck with the settings on the alpine getting it to work again I'm thinking maybe it was something changed on the helix that caused the rear sensors to stop working.


----------



## BlackHHR

Mark, I already have that cable ran in my car. It doesn't not function when the digi option on the head unit is selected.
Navi out from the head unit to Navi in on the processor. Digi activated and it does not work. Digi off and bingo it works.
Your head unit mutes all other outputs when digi is activated.
Alpine engineers dropped the ball on the navi output during optical output. RCA cables will solve this problem. Turn off you optical out and all will be golden.


----------



## palmerosa

Thanks Greg, that sounds about right. And I had guys from alpine tech support to tell me the beep/nav wire would work. Then again most I spoke to didn't even know that going digital was causing the problem and had me to change setting after setting. More times than not they would pass the issue back to maestro as needing to correct the problem. 
The main reason I purchased the alpine to begin with was to have the digital output feature. That and buying the 610 fiber optical cable and then buying the helix director for the volume control. My whole setup in the helix is based on digital input. 
Alpine dropping the ball is putting it lightly how I feel now after purchasing this very expensive receiver..


----------



## davewpy

I will be pulling in digital inputs in the next few weeks. And will update if the beep/NaviRG works or not.

My installer has also shared that it should be working as long as the input matrix on helix is set correctly. See subterfuse and earlier posts.

For h800, the green white lead is used to signal between the beep/navirg and digital input. Helix has an auto signal detect function.



Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


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## palmerosa

I was hoping there maybe some way around the alpine by using the helix getting these features to work. That's one reason I asked here in the helix thread. subterFUSE is like a surgeon on the helix pro, If there is anyway to get it to work he is a good one to check with as are several of the other members here. I think BlackHHR maybe right and alpine dropped the ball on this one 

I did want to say if it wasn't for loosing the hands free and bt audio, navigation and the rear beeping audio because of choosing to go with the digital output I would appulsulity love this unit. Just a little disappointed at the moment.


----------



## palmerosa

I got lucky and was able to get the rear bumper sensors to work by connected a factory dash speaker to the factory post amp harness that speaker leads went to one of the factory speakers that handled the beeping sound. I had tried before running a test speaker to the wiring harness from the factory amp but had no luck. All the speaker wires had been cut from when I first hooked up the helix using the factory hu and the factory speaker wires to the helix hi level inputs. So the first time I tried obviously I used speaker leads that did not handle the rear beeping duties. Now that I grabbed the dash speaker wires at least this feature works like a charm. 
I'm thinking I may get the audio for nav and hands free to work somehow using the bt from the IPhone. I know I can get utube to come through the system so maybe I can get these other options as well. Then I would be super golden.


----------



## Timelessr1

I ended up routing the OEM front outputs to the stock rear speakers. This way all oem beeps and hand free calls can be heard on the rear door speakers. The helix runs the 3 way front and sub. Technically it's like having two seperate systems.


----------



## palmerosa

But are you using the digital input? That seems to be the problem. But I haven't tried what you suggested yet.


----------



## davewpy

I have just gone on digital input with my X008 and Helix DSP PRO.

The navigation, beeps, telephone are all working well.

Under DCM, Signal Management, my AUX has priority. Release time of 1 second. Digital signal sensitivity is -80db and release is 10 seconds to handle track gaps, digital silence etc.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


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## palmerosa

Interesting.... I'll check this out to see if it works for me.


----------



## palmerosa

Is there anyway you could take a picture of that setup for to see how you have everything setup? I see how you have some set that you mention but am not sure about a few other boxes. I was impressed with the helix before put if this works for me I will be blown away. I did find out that I lost the microphone when making the keypad fit in the ram kit dash. I had no where to put the mic and wasn't sure what it was so I pushed it behind the panel so the caller could not hear me even though I could hear them. I have the ext mic now to use but it won't connect to the ram kit harness. So I have the x009u keypad harness ordered so hopefully the ext mic and the keypad for x009u harness will work with the ram kit setup I have. 
But what I was told was the nav audio just would not work. So if I get it to work who knows what else may start.
Thanks for sharing this with us


----------



## davewpy

Which boxes are you not sure of?

Or rather what settings do you want to see?

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

Digital In Volume controls the output levels of IO Digital tab.

Master controls the overall output levels for everything. Including analog and aux which cause the volume levels for the different sources to climb together. E.g. my digital source would be too loud if I want to hear the aux input properly.

I find that HEC/AUX volume can be set to off, since all beeping, navi, telephone, signals are controlled via my X008. The volume for AUX is set to Max on URC.









Changed my AUX input to G+H as I am not using HEC. Set it as priority so regardless to listening on my Main analog or digital, it will switch to AUX once a signal is detected.

Sensitivity for digital changed to handle certain tracks that have very low volume. Release timer changed to handle long pre-gaps in certain albums or track changes.









I couldn't figure out what Source Volume means.









Samples of my routing. Main - Analog inputs L+R. AUX, that NaviRG/Beep connector from my X008 and digital - self explanatory.



























Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


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## palmerosa

Ok I see one thing I need to do is change my main routing setup as I think the only table I'm using is the digital where it looks like your digital setup. Since that's all I'm using that's all I have setup. I don't even have rca's hooked up from my hu unit yet. That's why I was wanting to see how you have one table setup for rca's then one for aux and then the digital which is the same as mine on that table. Are you using the remote or the director? It looked like you were using the remote where I have the director which probably won't make any difference. 
I think several of you guys should be on Alpine or helix's payroll as much knowledge as you guys have on these products. 
I only have a set of 4 channel 6 meter top of the line monster cable for the rca's to go from the alpine hu to the helix about 1 meter away. That would be way cable more than I need for the analogy connection... Would I even need a 4 channel cable or would a two channel do the trick for me?
Thanks again for all your info and especially the pictures. That really helps with my adhd


----------



## palmerosa

Well Davewpy I tried to set up my dsp like the pictures you had of yours today but I wasn't so lucky getting mine to work. The only difference I saw right off was I have the director instead of the URC remote which were a few different choices. But didn't seem like anything that should stop the rear beeping from working. After I saw that wasn't going to work I didn't go any further as time didn't permit to do so.


----------



## Timelessr1

palmerosa said:


> But are you using the digital input? That seems to be the problem. But I haven't tried what you suggested yet.


Sorry it took so long to answer... Haven't been on for a little . Yes I am using the digital input. When I want to use the oem hands free or radio,I just turn down the volume all the way on the Helix ( I'm using a custom volume know--- similar to the URC remote )

... But as I stated before I connected the stock "front channel" to the rear door speakers. It's like having two seperate systems in the truck. I use the steering wheel volume and track and media buttons to control the oem system


----------



## illgorilla

I have an Audison Bit Play HD running optical to a Helix DSP Pro then out to my amps via RCA, controlling the DSP Pro with the Director. I haven't played around with the DSP settings through my computer yet (my installer set me up with a few settings that I have been very happy with). I am very satisfied with the sound. I do have a couple of gripes with the functionality/ease of use of the Bit Play but I am very pleased with the Helix side of things.

Anyways, the only headache (literally) issue that I am dealing with is static that is played through the speakers during the last 1-10 seconds of every single track that I purchased from HDTracks (all are 96/24 wav files). The duration of the static varies, but there is not one single song that lacks the end-of-song static. The static appears to be as loud as the music it follows (matches the volume that I play music at). I have played the files through my computer into my OPPO HA1/PM1 headphone setup using VLC from my computer and do not get this static. Other than the headphone setup I do not have any other equipment that will play hi-res to test it on.

This issue does not occur with the wav files from my CD library that I put onto the Bit Play internal drive using XLD...

I have searched through the Bit Play manual and the DSP Pro software for anything that resembles a zero-bit mute and can't find anything. Has anyone had this issue with their setup or does anyone who might be more familiar with these two products have any suggestions?

Thanks.


----------



## rafaelf.donis

thanks


----------



## Blackforge

illgorilla said:


> I have an Audison Bit Play HD running optical to a Helix DSP Pro then out to my amps via RCA, controlling the DSP Pro with the Director. I haven't played around with the DSP settings through my computer yet (my installer set me up with a few settings that I have been very happy with). I am very satisfied with the sound. I do have a couple of gripes with the functionality/ease of use of the Bit Play but I am very pleased with the Helix side of things.
> 
> Anyways, the only headache (literally) issue that I am dealing with is static that is played through the speakers during the last 1-10 seconds of every single track that I purchased from HDTracks (all are 96/24 wav files). The duration of the static varies, but there is not one single song that lacks the end-of-song static. The static appears to be as loud as the music it follows (matches the volume that I play music at). I have played the files through my computer into my OPPO HA1/PM1 headphone setup using VLC from my computer and do not get this static. Other than the headphone setup I do not have any other equipment that will play hi-res to test it on.
> 
> This issue does not occur with the wav files from my CD library that I put onto the Bit Play internal drive using XLD...
> 
> I have searched through the Bit Play manual and the DSP Pro software for anything that resembles a zero-bit mute and can't find anything. Has anyone had this issue with their setup or does anyone who might be more familiar with these two products have any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks.


On the Helix side of things, check on the settings for "Power Save Mode" and in your case the "Automatic digital signal detection".

The manual states 60 seconds before power save mode kicks in with no signal, but I remember seeing it being 30 seconds in the latest software update by default. When I have too much silence it seems to go into a intermittent fuzzy pop loop with my amps cycling until it sees a sound signal again (I'm using RCA inputs though). In my case I think I need to turn off power save mode or extend the timeout. It's not too loud though, but that could just be the amps I'm using.


----------



## Babs

Anyone seen the tool run in linux or ubuntu from PC rather than Windows? 
Possibly using Wine or something similar?

Just curious.. I'd like to mess with ubuntu but the old laptop's main purposes are the Helix tool and REW.


----------



## piyush7243

Babs said:


> Anyone seen the tool run in linux or ubuntu from PC rather than Windows?
> Possibly using Wine or something similar?
> 
> Just curious.. I'd like to mess with ubuntu but the old laptop's main purposes are the Helix tool and REW.


I'm going to run it tomorrow on my mac using wine bottler, will keep you posted. Though i doubt because of the usb driver implementation 


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

New DSP software is released.

Version 3.30a

Details here: PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> New DSP software is released.
> 
> 
> 
> Version 3.30a
> 
> 
> 
> Details here: PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH



Sure wished the Germans dug their iPads as much as we do in the states. But that looks like a really cool update. Makes me want to spring for a Director. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebookfreak58

Love that updates are almost monthly.

+1 Babs, wish there was an iOS app. I don't think the BT module is setup that way....

(Seems like an I2S stream from the BT module direct into audio portion of DSP)


----------



## subterFUSE

I wonder if it would be possible to internally route channels into other channels?

For example, I am only running 5 channels out of 10 on my DSP Pro. What if I could route each of those 5 channels into another channel and gain the use of the processing on both. So, instead of 30 bands EQ there would be 60 bands.

Obviously, you can already do this by simply plugging an output back to an input. But how cool would it be to do it internally and stay all digital?


Someone translate that into German, quick!


----------



## rton20s

subterFUSE said:


> So, instead of 30 bands EQ there would be 60 bands.


If you need 60 bands of EQ on a channel...


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> So, instead of 30 bands EQ there would be 60 bands.





rton20s said:


> If you need 60 bands of EQ on a channel...


I kinda have to agree.. As you know what adjustable Q-values on a few bands can do, more is not better in EQ bands regard much more than 31.. With three bands of parametric done well, and maybe 6-10 bands of Q4.31 graphic, you aughta be able to make any driver's freq response deal cards and pour drinks if you wanna. Remembering of course (humility disclaimer), that's a statement from a newb who barely knew how to hook up a measurement mic not long ago.


----------



## lashlee

There is also a corresponding Director update to 1.40


----------



## subterFUSE

Having more bands would be quite helpful, actually. Especially when using a wideband driver like I am. I have mine crossed from 230 Hz to 20kHz. I found myself really wishing I had more bands to adjust.

If you are using parametric EQ, then you lose the ability to do multiple channel relative linking.
I really like the idea of using parametric, but also having standard graphic which can be linked in relative mode for tonality adjustments by ear without losing the left/right balance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Honestly, I would prefer to have a full 30 bands per channel on the input side, and then another 30 bands on the output side. Use the output EQ to fix the speaker response, and the input side for tonality.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

lashlee said:


> There is also a corresponding Director update to 1.40



Yeah, I forgot to mention that with the DSP update.

I should have my DSP Pro back very soon. Can't wait to get it back in the car and tuning again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> If you are using parametric EQ, then you lose the ability to do multiple channel relative linking.


To a point, maybe.. Meaning if you did a bunch of bands all throughout with custom center's and Q's, yes, it'd get all weird in a hurry. 

However, I suggest a different approach maybe:

So 230-20k. Graphic capability for linking let's say from as low as 125hz up even. That's 25 bands you can keep "stock graphic". 

Below the 125hz slider, you still have 7 bands fully parametric, assignable at any freq center and Q.. Or even 6 bands of parametric and a high pass shelf filter. You could maintain relative linking between the pairs from 125hz on up as a graphic EQ, while still having individual-driver parametric shaping from those bands below. Win-Win! 

Thoughts? No?


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> To a point, maybe.. Meaning if you did a bunch of bands all throughout with custom center's and Q's, yes, it'd get all weird in a hurry.
> 
> However, I suggest a different approach maybe:
> 
> So 230-20k. Graphic capability for linking let's say from as low as 125hz up even. That's 25 bands you can keep "stock graphic".
> 
> Below the 125hz slider, you still have 7 bands fully parametric, assignable at any freq center and Q.. Or even 6 bands of parametric and a high pass shelf filter. You could maintain relative linking between the pairs from 125hz on up as a graphic EQ, while still having individual-driver parametric shaping from those bands below. Win-Win!
> 
> Thoughts? No?



That's what I did. It's not enough parametric bands to fix a wideband driver easily. Need more. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> That's what I did. It's not enough parametric bands to fix a wideband driver easily. Need more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Surely not! LOL!! I'd love to mess with your REW file. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> Surely not! LOL!! I'd love to mess with your REW file.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk



I've got the REW files from last year.

SysTune Pro is what I'm using now. Well, trying to learn how to use.  Steep learning curve... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

probably been asked and answered already, but is Kyle Ragsdale a member here and if so who is he? I came across his helix tuning videos today while i was recovering from a cold and they are quiet informative.


----------



## ndm

miniSQ said:


> probably been asked and answered already, but is Kyle Ragsdale a member here and if so who is he? I came across his helix tuning videos today while i was recovering from a cold and they are quiet informative.


Would you mind sharing the location of his videos?


----------



## themad

ndm said:


> Would you mind sharing the location of his videos?


If I may, this is his user on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/spyders03

Looks good, he's got a nice collection of tuning videos.


----------



## Babs

themad said:


> If I may, this is his user on Youtube:
> https://www.youtube.com/user/spyders03
> 
> Looks good, he's got a nice collection of tuning videos.






miniSQ said:


> probably been asked and answered already, but is Kyle Ragsdale a member here and if so who is he? I came across his helix tuning videos today while i was recovering from a cold and they are quiet informative.



Yeah I always refer to Kyle's vids for folks learning to tune. Huge resource. Really helped me get started. I put them in order in a playlist. 

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8DsRfMp9q4az_gei9C27aRyUIUvMIMO0


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

davewpy said:


> Digital In Volume controls the output levels of IO Digital tab.
> 
> Master controls the overall output levels for everything. Including analog and aux which cause the volume levels for the different sources to climb together. E.g. my digital source would be too loud if I want to hear the aux input properly.
> 
> I find that HEC/AUX volume can be set to off, since all beeping, navi, telephone, signals are controlled via my X008. The volume for AUX is set to Max on URC.
> 
> Changed my AUX input to G+H as I am not using HEC. Set it as priority so regardless to listening on my Main analog or digital, it will switch to AUX once a signal is detected.
> 
> Sensitivity for digital changed to handle certain tracks that have very low volume. Release timer changed to handle long pre-gaps in certain albums or track changes.
> 
> I couldn't figure out what Source Volume means.
> 
> Samples of my routing. Main - Analog inputs L+R. AUX, that NaviRG/Beep connector from my X008 and digital - self explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk



Looks like your AUX sources will only be playing the LEFT input based on your routing matrix....no?




-Steve


----------



## davewpy

The input source here is for NaviRG which is of mono content.

Aux L in one of my screenshot is pegged to Input G.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

A word of caution- be careful if updating your Director firmware. I liked the new features added in the recent software updates and wanted to update to the new Director firmware as well.

I downloaded the new 3.31a PC Tool software as well as the Director Updater v1.40 DIRECTOR support site - downloads, updates and questions & answers, Audiotec Fischer GmbH

I followed the instructions precisely and successfully installed the SAM-BA v2.14 on the laptop and ran the Updater. It connected to the Director and began the update process. It failed within about 15 seconds the first try and then on the second try it made it all the way through the status bar (took about 5-7 minutes). Then nothing. The Director screen was still black and nothing responding. It appears to be bricked right now.

Subsequent attempts to connect to the Director have not been successful- likely because it doesn't show any display and there's no way of putting it in the system update menu.

I'm going to try a hard reset/default on my DSP Pro and hope for the best.


Has anyone else updated to 1.40?


----------



## SkizeR

captainobvious said:


> A word of caution- be careful if updating your Director firmware. I liked the new features added in the recent software updates and wanted to update to the new Director firmware as well.
> 
> I downloaded the new 3.31a PC Tool software as well as the Director Updater v1.40 DIRECTOR support site - downloads, updates and questions & answers, Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> I followed the instructions precisely and successfully installed the SAM-BA v2.14 on the laptop and ran the Updater. It connected to the Director and began the update process. It failed within about 15 seconds the first try and then on the second try it made it all the way through the status bar (took about 5-7 minutes). Then nothing. The Director screen was still black and nothing responding. It appears to be bricked right now.
> 
> Subsequent attempts to connect to the Director have not been successful- likely because it doesn't show any display and there's no way of putting it in the system update menu.
> 
> I'm going to try a hard reset/default on my DSP Pro and hope for the best.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else updated to 1.40?


This also happened to one Steve cook was doing.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## brumledb

Does the updated pc-tool (3.30a) work with the 1.30 Director Tool?


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> A word of caution- be careful if updating your Director firmware. I liked the new features added in the recent software updates and wanted to update to the new Director firmware as well.
> 
> I downloaded the new 3.31a PC Tool software as well as the Director Updater v1.40 DIRECTOR support site - downloads, updates and questions & answers, Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> I followed the instructions precisely and successfully installed the SAM-BA v2.14 on the laptop and ran the Updater. It connected to the Director and began the update process. It failed within about 15 seconds the first try and then on the second try it made it all the way through the status bar (took about 5-7 minutes). Then nothing. The Director screen was still black and nothing responding. It appears to be bricked right now.
> 
> Subsequent attempts to connect to the Director have not been successful- likely because it doesn't show any display and there's no way of putting it in the system update menu.
> 
> I'm going to try a hard reset/default on my DSP Pro and hope for the best.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else updated to 1.40?


Ouch! I imagine AF has been contacted on it. Hopefully a reset resolves. Might see if AF can provide an MD5 on the download file for verification. Seen that a lot with android device zip's where a bad download can cause a soft brick.


----------



## davewpy

Did the volume control work or did it full blast on you?

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

Yeah I sent the AF engineers an email this morning to let them know of my situation, the details and to ask for some next steps/troubleshooting ideas.

May have to reconfigure the DSP Pro after loading the new software and run it analog until this is figured out. As of right now, I have a dead Director controller and no audio


----------



## captainobvious

SkizeR said:


> This also happened to one Steve cook was doing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Bummer. 

Did Steve post about this somewhere that I can read up on? If not, I'll just send him a message.


Thanks


----------



## strakele

Hey Steve, keep working at it. I had some funky issues with the software/firmware update as well.

Try unplugging the Director and do a couple resets on the DSP. Reconnect with the new software and it should ask you to update the presets on the DSP. Let it do that, then reload your settings. Once that's all working, then add the Director back in. That's what I had to do with mine.


----------



## captainobvious

strakele said:


> Hey Steve, keep working at it. I had some funky issues with the software/firmware update as well.
> 
> Try unplugging the Director and do a couple resets on the DSP. Reconnect with the new software and it should ask you to update the presets on the DSP. Let it do that, then reload your settings. Once that's all working, then add the Director back in. That's what I had to do with mine.



Yup, that's exactly what I'm about to try out. I'll let you know how it goes Grayson.

Thanks


----------



## miniSQ

captainobvious said:


> A word of caution- be careful if updating your Director firmware. I liked the new features added in the recent software updates and wanted to update to the new Director firmware as well.
> 
> I downloaded the new 3.31a PC Tool software as well as the Director Updater v1.40 DIRECTOR support site - downloads, updates and questions & answers, Audiotec Fischer GmbH
> 
> I followed the instructions precisely and successfully installed the SAM-BA v2.14 on the laptop and ran the Updater. It connected to the Director and began the update process. It failed within about 15 seconds the first try and then on the second try it made it all the way through the status bar (took about 5-7 minutes). Then nothing. The Director screen was still black and nothing responding. It appears to be bricked right now.
> 
> Subsequent attempts to connect to the Director have not been successful- likely because it doesn't show any display and there's no way of putting it in the system update menu.
> 
> I'm going to try a hard reset/default on my DSP Pro and hope for the best.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else updated to 1.40?


i updated to 1.4 after i updated to 3.31a and didnt have any problems. Thats with a HelixDSP, not a DSP pro.


----------



## brumledb

When using the optical input, how does the DSP know what info should go to L vs R? Basically, should the input and output matrix be left in the default setup?


----------



## davewpy

brumledb said:


> When using the optical input, how does the DSP know what info should go to L vs R? Basically, should the input and output matrix be left in the default setup?


You need to map it properly to the correct output channels that is dependant on how many speakers you have.

There are some screenshots in the prior pages.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

miniSQ said:


> i updated to 1.4 after i updated to 3.31a and didnt have any problems. Thats with a HelixDSP, not a DSP pro.



So you simply ran the auto installer and once everything was updated, connected to the Director, ran the ATF Director Updater and it finished the process successfully?


I got a response from AF. They asked me to try a different laptop and cable. I downloaded to a different laptop, tried again and get the same thing. It seems to recognize that there is a device there because it does bring up the program window to start the firmware update, but it fails with an error within about 10 seconds of clicking the start update. 


and to add insult to injury, it looks like I have an issue with my JL HD1200/1. I had thought the system was lacking some low end output recently (I don't listen to "bass" tracks and my sub only plays about 40hz and down) but the HAT L8v2's kill it pretty well with low end and its been freezing out so I hadn't investigated it yet. Checked today and sure enough, the HD1200/1 wasn't powering on. Checked with s DMM at the power plug for the amp and I'm getting voltage on the remote and the 12v+.... ugggggg


----------



## captainobvious

brumledb said:


> When using the optical input, how does the DSP know what info should go to L vs R? Basically, should the input and output matrix be left in the default setup?


Usually the default for the "digital" output matrix is fine.

You'll notice that it assigns the full range digital signal to each channel and alternates L channel and R channel.


----------



## subterFUSE

DSP Software version 3.31b is now available.

PC-Tool V3 software for configuring Audiotec Fischer DSP products, Audiotec Fischer GmbH


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks John.

I don't see anything obvious with the "b" update over 3.31a and no changelog yet but probably fix/tweak of the 3.31.


----------



## subterFUSE

They usually post change logs after a day or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

captainobvious said:


> So you simply ran the auto installer and once everything was updated, connected to the Director, ran the ATF Director Updater and it finished the process successfully?
> 
> 
> I got a response from AF. They asked me to try a different laptop and cable. I downloaded to a different laptop, tried again and get the same thing. It seems to recognize that there is a device there because it does bring up the program window to start the firmware update, but it fails with an error within about 10 seconds of clicking the start update.
> 
> 
> and to add insult to injury, it looks like I have an issue with my JL HD1200/1. I had thought the system was lacking some low end output recently (I don't listen to "bass" tracks and my sub only plays about 40hz and down) but the HAT L8v2's kill it pretty well with low end and its been freezing out so I hadn't investigated it yet. Checked today and sure enough, the HD1200/1 wasn't powering on. Checked with s DMM at the power plug for the amp and I'm getting voltage on the remote and the 12v+.... ugggggg


I did...i actually uninstalled about the past 5 versions of the AF software, and then did a fresh install of 3.31a. Then went out to my car....connected the Director to the PC and opened 3.31a and got a message on my director to update it. So i followed the instructions and had no problems.


----------



## subterFUSE

Just in case anyone ever needs a legacy version of the DSP software, I have kept a copy of every version since 3.06b.

I doubt we'll ever need them, but I always err on the cautious side.


----------



## falcon

Slightly off topic and probably a stupid question but here goes. Reading the manual for the Helix P Six, regarding the optical input, it says:

"The HELIX P SIX DSP MK2 can only handle uncompressed digital stereo signals in PCM format with a sample rate between 12 kHz and 96 kHz. Neither Dolby-coded signals nor compressed MP3-/WMA- or AAC-audio formats will be accepted."

I have my entire 500 CD library encoded in Apple Lossless. Will I be able to use it on the P Six using the optical input?


----------



## gregerst22

Anybody else using a quad-HD (3200 x 1800) display noticing that the Helix GUI doesn't scale properly? Its pretty much unusable until I lower my screen resolution back down. This is what it looks like.


----------



## strakele

That does look pretty ridiculous. I remember it looking fine on my 1920x1200 desktop monitor.

My laptop screen is 1366x768 and I'm annoyed that the window is 768 pixels tall so I have to hide the Windows task bar to be able to see the EQ band frequency labels.


----------



## thebookfreak58

Yeah it's a fixed window size. I emailed AF about it once and they are aware but said it would be a full rewrite of the app and they were planning to do it at some stage.


----------



## quality_sound

falcon said:


> Slightly off topic and probably a stupid question but here goes. Reading the manual for the Helix P Six, regarding the optical input, it says:
> 
> "The HELIX P SIX DSP MK2 can only handle uncompressed digital stereo signals in PCM format with a sample rate between 12 kHz and 96 kHz. Neither Dolby-coded signals nor compressed MP3-/WMA- or AAC-audio formats will be accepted."
> 
> I have my entire 500 CD library encoded in Apple Lossless. Will I be able to use it on the P Six using the optical input?



Apple lossless is ALAC so you should be fine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Just wanted to post about this...



Yesterday I got my DSP Pro back and installed it back in the car. I updated Director to version 1.4 and the DSP to 3.31b.

Everything is working great.



Here is the process I used for updating everything, just in case it helps anyone:


Before you begin, make sure to download the latest DSP software and install it.
Director software 1.4 is also available.

Both of these software programs will install several device driver files. Make sure to allow all the pop up install windows to complete their processes.

Also make sure to uninstall any old versions of the software for both the DSP and the Director. I'm not sure if this is really important or not, but I did it and it worked for me.



1. Install DSP Pro. DO NOT connect Director to the DSP yet.
2. Plug USB cable into DSP Pro and connect to laptop.
3. Start the car, and connect to the DSP Pro. The software will update automatically if necessary.
4. Go into DCM Menu and be sure to check the box for DIRECTOR to be activated.
5. Save the DSP preset to one of the 2 internal save banks. I used Preset 1.
6. Close the DSP Software and turn off the car.

7. Unplug the USB cable from the DSP Pro, and go to the Director. Plug the Director USB into the laptop.
8. Turn on the car. When the Director screen turns on, push the button for Update.
9. Follow the instructions on the Director. Run the Director software update on the PC.
10. Be patient as the update takes a few minutes. Make sure the USB stays plugged in until you get a message on the PC that the update was successful.
11. When update to Director is finished, turn off the car. Unplug the USB from the laptop.

12. Now to back to the DSP and plug the Director cable into the DSP.
13. Start the car again and wait for the Director to connect.



Yesterday, when I got to step 13, my Director actually did not connect as expected. It was in Demo Mode.

I simply turned the car off, and went back to the DSP and unplugged the Director. Turned the car on again and off again. Then reconnected the Director. This time when the car started the Director connected normally and has been working perfectly since then.


----------



## Babs

quality_sound said:


> Apple lossless is ALAC so you should be fine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Coincidentally going to take some first steps today to put a harness together to feed my Helix straight up optical from iOS. 













Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## falcon

Babs said:


> Coincidentally going to take some first steps today to put a harness together to feed my Helix straight up optical from iOS. k


That rig isn't going to charge the iOS device, is it? And what is the piece on the left?


----------



## Kriszilla

falcon said:


> That rig isn't going to charge the iOS device, is it? And what is the piece on the left?


Power supply. A very, very nice power supply.


----------



## falcon

Kriszilla said:


> Power supply. A very, very nice power supply.


Sorry, I'm new at this...does this charge the iPod or is it for the HDMI adapter? If not for either, what is the purpose?


----------



## Kriszilla

falcon said:


> Sorry, I'm new at this...does this charge the iPod or is it for the HDMI adapter? If not for either, what is the purpose?


A lot of that small stuff runs off of 5V power. You can use that variable power supply to power the charger, the HDMI splitter, etc... Pretty much anything that can't run 12V.


----------



## #1BigMike

I need to be subbed to this thread


----------



## Yawar538

They really need to do some work on the window sizing flexibility. On 1080p the labels are not fully displayed. On quad HD its a mess and on lower res one had to resort to hiding taskbar. Option to maximise should come pretty soon...its high time

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

Babs said:


> Coincidentally going to take some first steps today to put a harness together to feed my Helix straight up optical from iOS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


From what I can gather, your attempt is to hook up an iOS device from the lightning to HDMI female and then connect HDMI male/male which goes in the HDMI to optical converter. The spdif takes the signal from the converter to the DSP Pro. The power rail is for powering the converter.

Question is, are you 100% sure that from signal extraction from iOS to signal input in DSP Pro, it will be fully digital or somewhere there will be conversion from Digital to Analog and then back to Digital?

And if the lightning to HDMI is already connected how do you plan to charge the iOS device?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

OOT but I was wondering how PCM over HDMI to optical retain the CLK signal jitter to a minimum?

I am curious because I had spent quite an amount of time figuring out why my direct optical sounded better than my HDMI going into my home system.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## piyush7243

Yawar538 said:


> They really need to do some work on the window sizing flexibility. On 1080p the labels are not fully displayed. On quad HD its a mess and on lower res one had to resort to hiding taskbar. Option to maximise should come pretty soon...its high time
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


Yep, totally agree, fitting the software on low resolution screens is a mess

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## gregerst22

strakele said:


> That does look pretty ridiculous. I remember it looking fine on my 1920x1200 desktop monitor.
> 
> My laptop screen is 1366x768 and I'm annoyed that the window is 768 pixels tall so I have to hide the Windows task bar to be able to see the EQ band frequency labels.


It looks fine at 1900x1200 which is what my desktop is. Fortunately, I was just using the demo when I ran into the scaling issue and haven't bought a Helix yet. I have a 2015 model Dell XPS 13 with infinity display and the quad-hd screen is razor sharp and gorgeous. It's been great to tune my mosconi with. But it's unusable with the Helix. If I had to go into the settings to change the screen resolution every time I wanted to tune it would be a royal pain. 

I know what you mean about having to hide the windows taskbar I had to do that with my old and Asus laptop and Helix. So it sounds like the best resolution for the Helix software is 1900x1080 or 1900x1200.


----------



## Babs

Yawar538 said:


> From what I can gather, your attempt is to hook up an iOS device from the lightning to HDMI female and then connect HDMI male/male which goes in the HDMI to optical converter. The spdif takes the signal from the converter to the DSP Pro. The power rail is for powering the converter.
> 
> Question is, are you 100% sure that from signal extraction from iOS to signal input in DSP Pro, it will be fully digital or somewhere there will be conversion from Digital to Analog and then back to Digital?
> 
> And if the lightning to HDMI is already connected how do you plan to charge the iOS device?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk



Yeah I tested it a while back. Didn't find anything I had on the phone that it wouldn't play. 

I think if there's any conversion it happens at the AV adapter but stays in the digital domain I believe. Then the ViewHD extractor converts from HDMI to optical. When I tested it, the fidelity was stellar as was output and noise level. Volume controlled by the remote. Test subject was/is the 8ch Helix DSP. 

I can confirm jitter was far less than an airport express unless there's another reason besides jitter this method sounded better. 

The AV adapter has a lightning input next to the HDMI output for charging. 

How I'm going to power the extractor is by 5vdc from the MP3Car power supply (thanks Steve). So extractor and short optical output back near the DSP in trunk. I'll charge the iDevice back through the adapter from probably just a cig lighter charger in the console. 

Then with a lightning extension cord I can hide it all. Extractor in back by the amps and adapter in the console. 

Looks good on paper anyway. Gonna test again on bench power. Next phase. 

Linda (MrsPapasin) I think did a nice write up pioneering the HDMI method. So any/all credit goes to her. 

Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

subterFUSE said:


> Just wanted to post about this...
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday I got my DSP Pro back and installed it back in the car. I updated Director to version 1.4 and the DSP to 3.31b.
> 
> Everything is working great.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the process I used for updating everything, just in case it helps anyone:
> 
> 
> Before you begin, make sure to download the latest DSP software and install it.
> Director software 1.4 is also available.
> 
> Both of these software programs will install several device driver files. Make sure to allow all the pop up install windows to complete their processes.
> 
> Also make sure to uninstall any old versions of the software for both the DSP and the Director. I'm not sure if this is really important or not, but I did it and it worked for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Install DSP Pro. * DO NOT connect Director to the DSP yet.*
> 2. Plug USB cable into DSP Pro and connect to laptop.
> 3. Start the car, and connect to the DSP Pro. The software will update automatically if necessary.
> 4. Go into DCM Menu and be sure to check the box for DIRECTOR to be activated.
> 5. Save the DSP preset to one of the 2 internal save banks. I used Preset 1.
> 6. Close the DSP Software and turn off the car.
> 
> 7. Unplug the USB cable from the DSP Pro, and go to the Director. * Plug the Director USB into the laptop.*
> 8. Turn on the car. When the Director screen turns on, push the button for Update.
> 9. Follow the instructions on the Director. Run the Director software update on the PC.
> 10. Be patient as the update takes a few minutes. Make sure the USB stays plugged in until you get a message on the PC that the update was successful.
> 11. When update to Director is finished, turn off the car. Unplug the USB from the laptop.
> 
> 12. *Now to back to the DSP and plug the Director cable into the DSP.*
> 13. Start the car again and wait for the Director to connect.
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, when I got to step 13, my Director actually did not connect as expected. It was in Demo Mode.
> 
> I simply turned the car off, and went back to the DSP and unplugged the Director. Turned the car on again and off again. Then reconnected the Director. This time when the car started the Director connected normally and has been working perfectly since then.



So you performed the update with the Director being powered from the laptop's USB port through the USB cable? Or is there a missing step where the Director's power/signal plug gets plugged back into the DSP?
The bolded part are items that may (or may not) be associated with my issue. In their directions for updating the Director firmware, AF does not state to disconnect the Director cable from the DSP unit. They only state to connect your pc usb to the Director and to not have the dsp software open. So when I performed the process on mine, the Director's cable was plugged in to my DSP Pro. Has anyone else updated theirs successfully with the same process I used or did you guys use John's process of powering the Director via the laptop's USB port when connecting?




Also- do you guys know the size of that stupid small allen key that is used to removed the side cover of the Director? I thought I put the included one back in the box after install but now I can't locate it. I need to pick one up at a hardware store.


----------



## captainobvious

Babs said:


> How I'm going to power the extractor is by 5vdc from the MP3Car power supply (thanks Steve).



No sweat 

It's great to have a mini adjustable DC power supply available for things like this.


----------



## strakele

captainobvious said:


> Has anyone else updated theirs successfully with the same process I used or did you guys use John's process of powering the Director via the laptop's USB port when connecting?
> 
> 
> Also- do you guys know the size of that stupid small allen key that is used to removed the side cover of the Director? I thought I put the included one back in the box after install but now I can't locate it. I need to pick one up at a hardware store.


My director was connected to the DSP at the time of update but I'd probably recommend doing it the way he described.

I can measure when I get home but it's probably a 1, maybe 2mm hex key.


----------



## Babs

How many of you guys have tried a tune using some curve in the Helix RTA? Just for giggles I attempted it.. Wasn't half bad. 

Gets me thinking.. Try a typical individual driver EQ using usual parametric of maybe 4-6 bands per driver using REW, with band positions outside the range I'd use for graphic, then use graphic in RTA for the rest of individual EQ, then image steering pairs, then global uncorrelated pink noise in RTA for overall linking pairs so not to lose the image. Rinse tweak and repeat. 

The stuff I think about. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## strakele

captainobvious said:


> Also- do you guys know the size of that stupid small allen key that is used to removed the side cover of the Director?


.05 in / 1.25 mm


----------



## sicride

I have set up and saved house curves for each driver based on estimated crossover frequencies and slopes. I don't have my setup installed yet but honestly plan to start by letting helix RTA work its magic. I'll let it EQ each driver individually, set crossovers and time alignment, set levels and then link all drivers and let it adjust to full range house curve. Listen for a week or two and come back to tweak manually.


----------



## captainobvious

strakele said:


> .05 in / 1.25 mm


Thanks! I'll pick one (or 2) up. Not sure why they chose to use such a tiny hex head screw. I remember them being extremely tight and pretty much stripping one of them to get that stinkin cover off the first time...


----------



## Babs

sicride said:


> I have set up and saved house curves for each driver based on estimated crossover frequencies and slopes. I don't have my setup installed yet but honestly plan to start by letting helix RTA work its magic. I'll let it EQ each driver individually, set crossovers and time alignment, set levels and then link all drivers and let it adjust to full range house curve. Listen for a week or two and come back to tweak manually.


Interesting.. I might try that based on how the drivers measure acoustically, leaving the top flat area of the curve as is, but smoothing down slopes manually to have a standard to match each side to. 

From doing it in REW, the finer resolution comes in handy for seeing measured slopes from each side and comparing, so to adjust individual crossover points in the DSP to match them up. In 1/3 octave RTA, the band resolution for the slope areas wouldn't have very many bands. I guess a guy could do this step in RTA somewhat close in a pinch if Room EQ Wizard weren't available.


----------



## Yawar538

I have been using REW to tune my DSP Pro however I discovered TrueRTA and got its stage 4 version which gives me max access. Anyone used TrueRTA for tuning purposes apart from REW? Any thoughts?


----------



## Yawar538

Babs said:


> Yeah I tested it a while back. Didn't find anything I had on the phone that it wouldn't play.
> 
> I think if there's any conversion it happens at the AV adapter but stays in the digital domain I believe. Then the ViewHD extractor converts from HDMI to optical. When I tested it, the fidelity was stellar as was output and noise level. Volume controlled by the remote. Test subject was/is the 8ch Helix DSP.
> 
> I can confirm jitter was far less than an airport express unless there's another reason besides jitter this method sounded better.
> 
> The AV adapter has a lightning input next to the HDMI output for charging.
> 
> How I'm going to power the extractor is by 5vdc from the MP3Car power supply (thanks Steve). So extractor and short optical output back near the DSP in trunk. I'll charge the iDevice back through the adapter from probably just a cig lighter charger in the console.
> 
> Then with a lightning extension cord I can hide it all. Extractor in back by the amps and adapter in the console.
> 
> Looks good on paper anyway. Gonna test again on bench power. Next phase.
> 
> Linda (MrsPapasin) I think did a nice write up pioneering the HDMI method. So any/all credit goes to her.
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the detailed info however I will also check out Linda's thread regarding this.

Did you have any thought about going the much acclaimed Pure i20 way before you configured this method?


----------



## Babs

Yawar538 said:


> Did you have any thought about going the much acclaimed Pure i20 way before you configured this method?


The i20 worked great with 30 pin devices prior to lightning. I've read it won't work with lightning devices.


----------



## strakele

Yawar538 said:


> I have been using REW to tune my DSP Pro however I discovered TrueRTA and got its stage 4 version which gives me max access. Anyone used TrueRTA for tuning purposes apart from REW? Any thoughts?


I use True RTA. It was the first program I was introduced to so that's really the main reason. It's nice and simple. You can do a lot more with REW once you figure it out though.


----------



## #1BigMike

Dude this sucks lol. I was undecided between the iPad air 2 and Surface pro 4 to use as the media server for my system. After weeks of pondering I purchased the surface pro 4. The main advantage I saw the surface having over the iPad air 2 was the ability to use the helix software to tune on the fly.

The helix screen is so damn small I can hardly see anything uhhh.... Now I am stuck using the old dinosaur dell that is 8 years old (I can't find the power cable)! 

* I just needed to whine*


----------



## miniSQ

#1BigMike said:


> Dude this sucks lol. I was undecided between the iPad air 2 and Surface pro 4 to use as the media server for my system. After weeks of pondering I purchased the surface pro 4. The main advantage I saw the surface having over the iPad air 2 was the ability to use the helix software to tune on the fly.
> 
> The helix screen is so damn small I can hardly see anything uhhh.... Now I am stuck using the old dinosaur dell that is 8 years old (I can't find the power cable)!
> 
> * I just needed to whine*


should not be too small on a 12" screen...


----------



## #1BigMike

miniSQ said:


> should not be too small on a 12" screen...


I thought the same thing when I purchased at BB.... But I was grossly mislead.


----------



## miniSQ

#1BigMike said:


> I thought the same thing when I purchased at BB.... But I was grossly mislead.


Hopefully they have a decent return policy.


----------



## #1BigMike

miniSQ said:


> Hopefully they have a decent return policy.


Yeah I have 45 days o play with it. Should have just followed my gut and stuck with the lovely apple devices!


----------



## Blackforge

#1BigMike said:


> Dude this sucks lol. I was undecided between the iPad air 2 and Surface pro 4 to use as the media server for my system. After weeks of pondering I purchased the surface pro 4. The main advantage I saw the surface having over the iPad air 2 was the ability to use the helix software to tune on the fly.
> 
> The helix screen is so damn small I can hardly see anything uhhh.... Now I am stuck using the old dinosaur dell that is 8 years old (I can't find the power cable)!
> 
> * I just needed to whine*


Do what I do on my Surface Pro 4: Temporarily change the scaling to 100%, sign out and back in. Then search/run the built in magnifier application. Should be a lot better from then.


----------



## Yawar538

#1BigMike said:


> Yeah I have 45 days o play with it. Should have just followed my gut and stuck with the lovely apple devices!


Doesn't fiddling with the resolution fix it?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## #1BigMike

Yawar538 said:


> Doesn't fiddling with the resolution fix it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk



No sir I tried all the resolutions some were better than others but still not good enough for my liking.

I emailed Helix and they said an update will be coming out in 3-4 months that should the resolution issues. Just trying to decide if I want to wait that long.

Another advantage of the surface pro4 is the larger hard drive and the ability to expand the memory with additional memory sticks.

I will admit I am an apple fanboy and their products are sleeker and smoother running.


----------



## lashlee

I use 1280x800 on my surface pro 3 for tuning, everything fits nicely.


----------



## falcon

What is the best calibrated microphone under $100 to use with the Helix and REQW?


----------



## Yawar538

falcon said:


> What is the best calibrated microphone under $100 to use with the Helix and REQW?


Minidsp umik1

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## falcon

Any other suggestions? MiniDSP has a no return policy, which I am not crazy about. Maybe I shouldn't worry?


----------



## rton20s

falcon said:


> Any other suggestions? MiniDSP has a no return policy, which I am not crazy about. Maybe I shouldn't worry?


https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/crossover-design/minidsp-umik-1-usb-measurement-microphone/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/returns


----------



## piyush7243

falcon said:


> What is the best calibrated microphone under $100 to use with the Helix and REQW?


Buy umik 1 from Cross Spectrum labs. They professionally calibrate those

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## #1BigMike

lashlee said:


> I use 1280x800 on my surface pro 3 for tuning, everything fits nicely.


I am going to have to try it out


----------



## #1BigMike

lashlee said:


> I use 1280x800 on my surface pro 3 for tuning, everything fits nicely.


Tried them all nothing seems to show everything. Some resolutions are better than others but still not acceptable to me for what I paid.


----------



## Babs

Cross spectrum labs has UMIK-1 with 0 to 90 degree calibration files. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## falcon

Babs said:


> Cross spectrum labs has UMIK-1 with 0 to 90 degree calibration files.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this any different than the MiniDSP mic?


----------



## Babs

falcon said:


> Is this any different than the MiniDSP mic?


Same UMIK-1 with more detailed calibration files provided by Cross Spectrum Labs:



Cross Spectrum Labs said:


> We provide the following value-added services:
> 
> We provide calibration files (.FRD format) on a USB thumbdrive for use in many popular audio measurement programs. Our cal files range from 5 Hz to 25 kHz to encompass the low bass and high treble regions that many audiophiles, professionals and home theater aficionados require.
> 
> Our measurement methodology compares favorably with the results generated by a NVLAP NIST-traceable laboratory so you can be confident that your data are reliable and are representative of the UMIK-1's individual performance.
> As with our other calibrated microphone products, each UMIK-1 microphone is calibrated against an ANSI-certified reference microphone. Each microphone will be shipped with the following:
> 
> MiniDSP UMIK-1 microphone with mini-tripod, case, USB cable, and microphone clip
> Microphone characterization report
> Frequency response curves at 0°, 45° and 90° angles of incidence
> USB thumbdrive with frequency response data (.FRD format)


----------



## piyush7243

falcon said:


> Is this any different than the MiniDSP mic?


Its professionally calibrated. That makes is much better at measurement than others

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## falcon

Is that file extension compatible with the Helix DSP? Meaning, can it be loaded into the device?


----------



## captainobvious

FYI-

Just wanted to update since I have been working with the Audiotec-Fischer engineers to try and resolve my issue with the "bricked" Director...
They confirmed that the correct procedure when updating the firmware of the director is to have the device connected via its cable to the dsp device for power- not connected only to the laptop via usb (and therefore powered by the laptop).


Also, still no fix as of yet. My director does not appear to be communicating any more. Attempts to connect to it even directly with the SAM-BA program are unsuccessful despite verifying the correct board and com port. 

I'm now just waiting to hear back from them on whether there is any other troubleshooting procedure that can be performed or if I'll have to send it back in for repair/replacement.


----------



## Blackforge

#1BigMike said:


> Tried them all nothing seems to show everything. Some resolutions are better than others but still not acceptable to me for what I paid.


Seriously:

Display Settings > "Change the size of text, apps, and other items" temporarily set it to 100% and click the button to sign out.

Once you're signed back in search for "Magnifier" and run the DSP software. All text should now fit above all the buttons. Then just zoom in with the Magnifier to bring up the DSP software to fit the screen.

Then just change the text size back to 200% when you're done.

You can also change the resolution after changing the scaling instead of the Magnifier, it's up to you.


----------



## #1BigMike

@Blackforge, Seriously: I figured it out a while ago, I had a faulty unit, it did a number of other quirky things also. So I took the unit back and swapped for a new one. I changed the resolution and got it to work on this unit.

However this unit doesn't seem to want to come out of sleep mode when asked to. I took a look at the microsoft help page and there are number of issues going on with these units. For $1k+ this thing should be running a lot better.

I may just continue to use my laptop for tuning and pick up a newer apple tablet as a media server. *IMO*, Apple seems to have a more refined product (not perfect). I am sure there are apps that support playback of higher resolution files.

_*The most important thing for others reading this post to know is, the Helix DSP PRO software DOES WORK on the Microsoft Surface Pro 4. Simply chang the settings to a lower resolution.*_
_
*I spoke with Audiotec Fischer via email last week and was told they have a resolution fix coming around the Autumn time frame via a software update.*_


----------



## Blackforge

#1BigMike said:


> @Blackford, Seriously: I figured it out a while ago, I had a faulty unit, it did a number of other quirky things also. So I took the unit back and swapped for a new one. I changed the resolution and got it to work on this unit.
> 
> However this unit doesn't seem to want to come out of sleep mode when asked to. I took a look at the microsoft help page and there are number of issues going on with these units. For $1k+ this thing should be running a lot better.
> 
> I may just continue to use my laptop for tuning and pick up a newer apple tablet as a media server. *IMO*, Apple seems to have a more refined product (not perfect). I am sure there are apps that support playback of higher resolution files.
> 
> _*The most important thing for others reading this post to know is, the Helix DSP PRO software DOES WORK on the Microsoft Surface Pro 4. Simply chang the settings to a lower resolution.*_
> _
> *I spoke with Audiotec Fischer via email last week and was told they have a resolution fix coming around the Autumn time frame via a software update.*_


Yeah, Windows has a scaling issue (XP GDI scaling) on high resolution displays for legacy Windows applications and Audiotec Fischer just continued to use that same method when they updated the software.

Apple planned ahead and had been prepared with a few methods to battle this with pixel doubling, rendering at higher resolutions then scaling down, etc for supporting retina displays.

Most of my Surface Pro 4 issues seemed to have been fixed through all the various firmware updates through Windows Update. Sleep mode is still quirky, but better than it was. Then again I bought the base version to go fanless when tuning, etc. If they had had an iOS app, I probably wouldn't have bought it though...


----------



## Yawar538

Anyone facing connectivity issue when connecting usb to laptop and launching the software and getting the demo option despite numerous attempts?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Yawar538 said:


> Anyone facing connectivity issue when connecting usb to laptop and launching the software and getting the demo option despite numerous attempts?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk



This happens to me sometimes.

A disconnect/reconnect of the USB cable and restart of the DSP software solves it for me.

Another issue seems to be that the DSP is finicky about USB cables. Especially when you have an extension cable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

This happens to me as well, I bought a better usb cable that is shielded and the problem went away.

Meanwhile, am in the process of modifying my setup to incorporate the director and new amps and sub!

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

I had my gx2400s and director installed today.

Noticed that when I start the car up, the processor actually outputs at 0db for a split second before going back down to whatever I had set as startup volume.

Does anyone have a similar encounter?

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

No, that's not normal operation.


----------



## davewpy

I'm out of ideas. I had reset the DCM settings, director and it is still the same.

My URC2A did not give me such headaches.

My entire system is 12v triggered, so no power save mode was enabled on the DSP. Director power saver is enabled though.

It feels like the director had start up slower than the DSP with it sending full output before the Director takes over.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Calibrating microphone without actual device that microphone would be used is nonsense.


----------



## Yawar538

Im using the cable that comes with it...takes several tries...


----------



## davewpy

Cable works fine. Just don't understand what's happening. I will be switching my main IO matrix later and see what I can make out of it.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

Just FYI - issue was fixed under advice from ATF support. A hard reset on the DSP is required.


----------



## WeDgE

Anyone experiencing a turn on pop while using optical into the DSP Pro?

I just started using an optical cable from the Clarion NX706 today (was running RCAs just fine before) and now I get a pretty loud pop from all the speakers when the DSP fires up. I have the digital signal detection set as low (-70dB, I think) and as long (300s) as possible.

Any ideas? I've switched back to using RCAs until I remedy this problem as I'd rather not blow a mid or tweet...


----------



## #1BigMike

I have the same issue. very faint but it is there none the least. Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Babs

Posting here as this might be a Helix-specific question.. My dumb question for the day:
EQ boosts (conservatively of course) on attenuated channels at a point or two in EQ.

Given the generic rule, for preventing distortion, is apply cuts only and avoid boosts above 0db line in EQ, how about if the channel in question is attenuated in the "Channel Gain & Output Level" significantly.. For example, like -15db. Does it still apply as a cardinal sin to make a boost of say 1db or so?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

I tested the DSP pro with +5 DB on the Output with all bands at +6 and go ZERO distortion at 1%. DD-1 tested


----------



## AVIDEDTR

The only time I found distortion is stacking bands

Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

#1BigMike said:


> I have the same issue. very faint but it is there none the least. Any help is greatly appreciated.





WeDgE said:


> Anyone experiencing a turn on pop while using optical into the DSP Pro?
> 
> I just started using an optical cable from the Clarion NX706 today (was running RCAs just fine before) and now I get a pretty loud pop from all the speakers when the DSP fires up. I have the digital signal detection set as low (-70dB, I think) and as long (300s) as possible.
> 
> Any ideas? I've switched back to using RCAs until I remedy this problem as I'd rather not blow a mid or tweet...


Amp remote turn on by DSP remote out?

I would try to isolate by disconnecting the optical cable as well.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

Babs said:


> Posting here as this might be a Helix-specific question.. My dumb question for the day:
> EQ boosts (conservatively of course) on attenuated channels at a point or two in EQ.
> 
> Given the generic rule, for preventing distortion, is apply cuts only and avoid boosts above 0db line in EQ, how about if the channel in question is attenuated in the "Channel Gain & Output Level" significantly.. For example, like -15db. Does it still apply as a cardinal sin to make a boost of say 1db or so?


I wouldn't think so, but it also depends on how the total gain structure of the system is setup. If your gains are set incorrectly, then you may have a clip at a particular frequency if you EQ boost a particular frequency above the attenuated level.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> Given the generic rule, for preventing distortion, is apply cuts only and avoid boosts above 0db line in EQ, how about if the channel in question is attenuated in the "Channel Gain & Output Level" significantly.. For example, like -15db. Does it still apply as a cardinal sin to make a boost of say 1db or so?



I don't much care for this generic rule when we are talking about digital DSP. As someone mentioned, they have boosted the Helix Pro to +5 gain and +6 EQ without clipping. This makes perfect sense, too. A digital device cannot go past unity. So if there is a +5 dB gain setting, it really just means that 0 dB is actually -5 dB. They have adjusted the relative scale for convenience.

The important thing is to consider the overall gain structure, and also what the adjacent bands of EQ are doing. If you have large cuts on an adjacent band, then a boost won't cause problems. But 2 or 3 bands of adjacent boost could create an issue.

I've got several bands of +6 dB EQ on my current tune and it's sounding the best it ever has.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu

I've used 6dB EQ boosts, with the overall channel level reduced or with adjacent EQ bands cut. No reason you can't do that.

x2 on subterfuse post above ^^


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk.


----------



## Babs

Thanks for the responses guys. I'd say that gives me a basis of guidelines. 

John I'm dying to hear the Audi again. And want that nickel tour of the Bit Play. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

subterFUSE said:


> I don't much care for this generic rule when we are talking about digital DSP. As someone mentioned, they have boosted the Helix Pro to +5 gain and +6 EQ without clipping. This makes perfect sense, too. A digital device cannot go past unity. So if there is a +5 dB gain setting, it really just means that 0 dB is actually -5 dB. They have adjusted the relative scale for convenience.
> 
> The important thing is to consider the overall gain structure, and also what the adjacent bands of EQ are doing. If you have large cuts on an adjacent band, then a boost won't cause problems. But 2 or 3 bands of adjacent boost could create an issue.
> 
> I've got several bands of +6 dB EQ on my current tune and it's sounding the best it ever has.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Babs said:


> Thanks for the responses guys. I'd say that gives me a basis of guidelines.
> 
> John I'm dying to hear the Audi again. And want that nickel tour of the Bit Play.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, is the bitplay getting better? I saw it on not work on amplified and Joey from SIS hated it.


----------



## subterFUSE

AVIDEDTR said:


> Yeah, is the bitplay getting better? I saw it on not work on amplified and Joey from SIS hated it.


The firmware update is not yet released. Whenever that does make it out, they claim to be addressing the major feature omissions like Resume Play, Tags/Artwork and Gapless Playback.

With those 3 features added, I'll be absolutely thrilled with it.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

subterFUSE said:


> The firmware update is not yet released. Whenever that does make it out, they claim to be addressing the major feature omissions like Resume Play, Tags/Artwork and Gapless Playback.
> 
> With those 3 features added, I'll be absolutely thrilled with it.


cool any idea the price tag?


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> The firmware update is not yet released. Whenever that does make it out, they claim to be addressing the major feature omissions like Resume Play, Tags/Artwork and Gapless Playback.
> 
> 
> 
> With those 3 features added, I'll be absolutely thrilled with it.



Considering the price and the design for what it does compared to the other hi Rez head units out there, it makes the bit play quite attractive. No head unit baloney required. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WeDgE

davewpy said:


> Amp remote turn on by DSP remote out?
> 
> I would try to isolate by disconnecting the optical cable as well.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk



Amps turned on by Helix DSP Pro remote out. 

Using RCA there is no turn on pop.


----------



## davewpy

I wanted to be precise in case someone damaged his tweeters at 0db levels.

As an example, if I derived the gain position on my amp to output 153W of power at 0db @ 4Khz, and I have my tweeter channels attenuated by 6db, a boost at 4Khz of 6.25db will clip at the output.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

WeDgE said:


> Amps turned on by Helix DSP Pro remote out.
> 
> Using RCA there is no turn on pop.


In my setup, my HU turns on my DSP which then turns on my amps.

I am running optical and I do not have turn on pops. Have you tried asking Audiotec Fischer?

I will run by my buddy to see if he has any idea when I see him over the weekend as well.

Digital signals should be pure silence when no content is played. At the point of signal handshake there shouldn't be any noise at all.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## WeDgE

davewpy said:


> In my setup, my HU turns on my DSP which then turns on my amps.
> 
> I am running optical and I do not have turn on pops. Have you tried asking Audiotec Fischer?
> 
> I will run by my buddy to see if he has any idea when I see him over the weekend as well.
> 
> Digital signals should be pure silence when no content is played. At the point of signal handshake there shouldn't be any noise at all.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk





Thank you sir.

Sending off an email to ATF as I type this.

Could you post a screenshot of your Signal Management page (I believe that's what it's called), showing the Signal Level and Release Time for the optical input?


----------



## davewpy

I posted those quite a few pages back. My digital sensitivity is at default, -60db. Release in 10 secs.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## WeDgE

davewpy said:


> I will run by my buddy to see if he has any idea when I see him over the weekend as well.


Any word from your friend? 

I still haven't heard from ATF. They haven't replied to a single email I've sent them. Maybe someone else will have better luck...


----------



## Guest

WeDgE said:


> Amps turned on by Helix DSP Pro remote out.
> 
> Using RCA there is no turn on pop.


WeDgE:
I'm assuming you have the DSP Pro wired into your OEM source ?

If so, where do you have the power and remote wires connected to ?
As I understand from AF... They must be wired directly to the radio's power and remote wires... 

Otherwise you might get turn on or off noise... possibly other noise as well...


----------



## subterFUSE

SQ_TSX said:


> WeDgE:
> 
> I'm assuming you have the DSP Pro wired into your OEM source ?
> 
> 
> 
> If so, where do you have the power and remote wires connected to ?
> 
> As I understand from AF... They must be wired directly to the radio's power and remote wires...
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise you might get turn on or off noise... possibly other noise as well...




If you are using the OEM source via high level inputs then don't use a remote wire on the helix. It has signal sensing turn on.


----------



## Guest

subterFUSE said:


> If you are using the OEM source via high level inputs then don't use a remote wire on the helix. It has signal sensing turn on.


Good point sir....!

I do understand the power lead needs to be terminated to the OEM radio power wire.


----------



## davewpy

WeDgE said:


> Any word from your friend?
> 
> I still haven't heard from ATF. They haven't replied to a single email I've sent them. Maybe someone else will have better luck...


Do you have an alternative digital device to test?

I'm very sorry I actually forgot to bring this up. Will send him a msg right now.

We had been busy with this...

















Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

WeDgE said:


> Any word from your friend?
> 
> I still haven't heard from ATF. They haven't replied to a single email I've sent them. Maybe someone else will have better luck...


Hi wedge, I can't get a hold of anyone whom has NX706 here. But I thought of a few ways to isolate the issue.

An alternative optical out device connected to DSP while playing music in PCM and you turning the HU on just for the remote trigger. If the problem doesn't occur here, then you need to check the HU.

A reset of DSP PRO via the hard button. You will have to upgrade the firmware again with the latest 3.31B software. Be careful with this and not to have any sound playing. I really doubt it is an issue at this end.

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## WeDgE

SQ_TSX said:


> WeDgE:
> I'm assuming you have the DSP Pro wired into your OEM source ?
> 
> If so, where do you have the power and remote wires connected to ?
> As I understand from AF... They must be wired directly to the radio's power and remote wires...
> 
> Otherwise you might get turn on or off noise... possibly other noise as well...




Thanks for the suggestions. 

Using a Clarion NX706 as the source. No pop via RCA, only optical. ATF replied to me today, will try their suggestions when I have some time off!


----------



## WeDgE

davewpy said:


> Hi wedge, I can't get a hold of anyone whom has NX706 here. But I thought of a few ways to isolate the issue.
> 
> An alternative optical out device connected to DSP while playing music in PCM and you turning the HU on just for the remote trigger. If the problem doesn't occur here, then you need to check the HU.
> 
> A reset of DSP PRO via the hard button. You will have to upgrade the firmware again with the latest 3.31B software. Be careful with this and not to have any sound playing. I really doubt it is an issue at this end.
> 
> Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk




Thanks for getting back to me, Dave.

The only other optical source I have is a PS3 in the theatre room. I don't have a URC or Director to control volume, either. 

ATF finally got back to me with some possible solutions. Will try them on my days off and report back with my findings. Hopefully it works and helps others with this issue.


----------



## davewpy

You need a volume control for sure to use digital source. Now it sounds something has gone into protect.

Direct digital source is at 100% volume of the source.

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## WeDgE

davewpy said:


> You need a volume control for sure to use digital source. Now it sounds something has gone into protect.
> 
> Direct digital source is at 100% volume of the source.
> 
> Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk




Clarion NX706 has the ability to control volume of the optical output.


----------



## sicride

I am having a problem setting my subwoofer gains only and not being able to reach max voltage on a DMM. My Helix DSP is integrated to my factory JBL Synthesis system using high level inputs after the factory amp taking front speaker outputs and subwoofer outputs.

I am summing front left and left subwoofer for my left speakers same for right, and all 4 high level inputs assigned to subwoofer channels. 

I have bypassed all crossovers, set all EQ to flat, subwoofer level to 0dB, master volume to 0dB. 

I have tried 40hz and 100hz test tones. 

No matter what I get 13v max from a 600 watt rms amp using -5db overlap tones and 10v max from a 440 watt amplifier. However, I am getting more voltage from my regular channels 1-4 on two separate amplifiers also. Why would I not be getting enough voltage on sub only?


----------



## unfinished

Anyone has the info on the exact part number of the Analog devices D/A convertor in the DSP Pro?
Has anyone done or anywhere i can get info on tear down of the DSP pro?


----------



## davewpy

sicride said:


> I am having a problem setting my subwoofer gains only and not being able to reach max voltage on a DMM. My Helix DSP is integrated to my factory JBL Synthesis system using high level inputs after the factory amp taking front speaker outputs and subwoofer outputs.
> 
> I am summing front left and left subwoofer for my left speakers same for right, and all 4 high level inputs assigned to subwoofer channels.
> 
> I have bypassed all crossovers, set all EQ to flat, subwoofer level to 0dB, master volume to 0dB.
> 
> I have tried 40hz and 100hz test tones.
> 
> No matter what I get 13v max from a 600 watt rms amp using -5db overlap tones and 10v max from a 440 watt amplifier. However, I am getting more voltage from my regular channels 1-4 on two separate amplifiers also. Why would I not be getting enough voltage on sub only?


Check the high level output voltage of the OEM amps. The high level inputs can be adjusted to gain match with the original system.

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## t3sn4f2

WeDgE said:


> Anyone experiencing a turn on pop while using optical into the DSP Pro?
> 
> I just started using an optical cable from the Clarion NX706 today (was running RCAs just fine before) and now I get a pretty loud pop from all the speakers when the DSP fires up. I have the digital signal detection set as low (-70dB, I think) and as long (300s) as possible.
> 
> Any ideas? I've switched back to using RCAs until I remedy this problem as I'd rather not blow a mid or tweet...


What you're experiencing is a problem caused by the DSP not having the ability to sync at a "zero-crossing point", and/or the head unit not having the ability to as well. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_crossing

This was/is a common problem with the Audison bit-one as well, which is the reason Audison came out with their "SFC". Basically how I understand it is that it syncs>buffers>converters and syncs with the next device in line, then sends the digital stream without the initial pop in it. Or syncs at a zero-point. Dunno but the result is the same, no sync pop.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/112505-audison-sfc-small-thing-helps.html

If you can't find or don't want to pay the higher cost of an SFC you might want to look into a mini-dsp mini-digi. It looks like it should give you the same functionality being a sample frequency converter module as well. Though I would send them an email to make sure.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/minidigi


----------



## WeDgE

t3sn4f2 said:


> What you're experiencing is a problem caused by the DSP not having the ability to sync at a "zero-crossing point", and/or the head unit not having the ability to as well.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_crossing
> 
> This was/is a common problem with the Audison bit-one as well, which is the reason Audison came out with their "SFC". Basically how I understand it is that it syncs>buffers>converters and syncs with the next device in line, then sends the digital stream without the initial pop in it. Or syncs at a zero-point. Dunno but the result is the same, no sync pop.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/112505-audison-sfc-small-thing-helps.html
> 
> If you can't find or don't want to pay the higher cost of an SFC you might want to look into a mini-dsp mini-digi. It looks like it should give you the same functionality being a sample frequency converter module as well. Though I would send them an email to make sure.
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/minidigi




Excellent info, thanks!


----------



## WeDgE

Solved the turn on pop issue with help from ATF.

- Reduced the Digital Signal Detection Release to 1s. I'm assuming if the DSP doesn't see a signal within 1s of powering on, it mutes the RCA outputs and waits for an actual signal to come from the Optical input.

- Main Routing window cleared of all signal assignments

- Digital Routing window now has all input to output signal assignments


Hope this info helps others with optical turn on pop!


----------



## davewpy

Glad you got rid of this weird issue.

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## -+Deez+-

I'm hoping someone can help me out. I've recently installed a Helix DSP Pro and after everything was hooked up, I couldn't get the Helix to turn my amps on for the life of me. I'm able to connect into it and set everything up but it won't turn my amps on. 

If I bypass the Helix, everything turns on fine with the dreaded pop-sound at first but after that, it works fine. The LED indicator is green and everything should be going but it's not.... what am I missing?

I did check the voltage out (on the remote out) on the Helix and when it off, there's 2.15 volts out on it and after it turns on, the voltage actually drops down to 1.40. I'm not an engineer but shouldn't it go up to around 12 and not drop?


----------



## subterFUSE

-+Deez+- said:


> I'm hoping someone can help me out. I've recently installed a Helix DSP Pro and after everything was hooked up, I couldn't get the Helix to turn my amps on for the life of me. I'm able to connect into it and set everything up but it won't turn my amps on.
> 
> If I bypass the Helix, everything turns on fine with the dreaded pop-sound at first but after that, it works fine. The LED indicator is green and everything should be going but it's not.... what am I missing?
> 
> I did check the voltage out (on the remote out) on the Helix and when it off, there's 2.15 volts out on it and after it turns on, the voltage actually drops down to 1.40. I'm not an engineer but shouldn't it go up to around 12 and not drop?




1. How many amps?

2. If more than 3 amps, do you have a relay?

3. Is Power-Save turned on in the DCM menu of Helix software?


----------



## WeDgE

t3sn4f2 said:


> What you're experiencing is a problem caused by the DSP not having the ability to sync at a "zero-crossing point", and/or the head unit not having the ability to as well.



Just to follow up with this, here's some info from Julian Fischer at ATF:

Our SPDIF inputs have internal sampling rate converters which are working at to activate the signal at the zero-crossing point.


----------



## -+Deez+-

subterFUSE said:


> 1. How many amps?
> 
> 2. If more than 3 amps, do you have a relay?
> 
> 3. Is Power-Save turned on in the DCM menu of Helix software?


1. 3 amps. 2 four channel amps for the mids / tweets and a sub amp

2. No relay and I doubt with the low voltage it would even trigger one.

3. Power-Save is OFF.

And to clarify, it's not really a pop sound but rather something else- not really sure how to explain it. Will probably have to record a video as it will be easier.


----------



## t3sn4f2

WeDgE said:


> Just to follow up with this, here's some info from Julian Fischer at ATF:
> 
> Our SPDIF inputs have internal sampling rate converters which are working at to activate the signal at the zero-crossing point.


Cool, thanks for the info.


----------



## USP45

I have a question for those of you who are using the dsp pro. I am not planning on running a digital input or the Director, just analog out of the head unit to the dsp. I have found the thread explaining how to make your own remote that can control the master volume, sub volume and switching inputs. I would like to use the two built in presets, one for a single driver and another for when I have my wife and kids in the car with me for our three hour drives to our ranch in East Texas. 

Is there any way to make a remote to toggle between the two built in presets without having to use the button on the side of the dsp pro? I know this is a pretty simple want/need, but I have found no way to do this other than using the Director... My amp rack which also will hold the dsp pro is under the rear seat in a 2011 F-350 and the top of the amp rack is covered with a Lexan sheet, it would not be a very easy or quick process to get to the button on the dsp. Thanks for the help.


----------



## BlueGhost

> Functionality HELIX DSP PRO
> 
> Control I / II:
> - Master volume
> - HEC / AUX volume
> - Dig. volume
> - Subwoofer volume
> 
> Mode Switch:
> - Setup Switch
> - Digital In
> - HEC / AUX In


I believe "Setup Switch" does what you want and should be configurable in the tuning software.


----------



## bradknob

USP45 said:


> I have a question for those of you who are using the dsp pro. I am not planning on running a digital input or the Director, just analog out of the head unit to the dsp. I have found the thread explaining how to make your own remote that can control the master volume, sub volume and switching inputs. I would like to use the two built in presets, one for a single driver and another for when I have my wife and kids in the car with me for our three hour drives to our ranch in East Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any way to make a remote to toggle between the two built in presets without having to use the button on the side of the dsp pro? I know this is a pretty simple want/need, but I have found no way to do this other than using the Director... My amp rack which also will hold the dsp pro is under the rear seat in a 2011 F-350 and the top of the amp rack is covered with a Lexan sheet, it would not be a very easy or quick process to get to the button on the dsp. Thanks for the help.




Yes, like the post above said. It is possible and should be switched in the software.

I started building my own remote and now that I'm gonna have a digital source, I'll need a seperate tune. I will be wiring the button up shortly to see how it works out. If you don't beat me to the punch I'll keep you posted on how it works.

Ill use it for volume and sub level.


----------



## USP45

Thanks gentlemen. 

Brad, you will beat me to it as I leave day after tomorrow for a two week field exercise with the Army so I will not get to anything for a minute. Heck, I do not have the DSP Pro in yet!


----------



## -+Deez+-

What's the best way to contact Audiotec-Fischer? I emailed them over a week ago and have yet to even get a confirmation email let alone any kind of feedback on my problem :-/


----------



## bradknob

Maybe a dumb question but figured I'd ask instead of brick a $1000 dsp....

Is there a problem if the EQ sliders are not numerically in order? For instance I level matched both mids , then afterwards used the left over sliders to shape the combined curve....


----------



## Babs

bradknob said:


> Maybe a dumb question but figured I'd ask instead of brick a $1000 dsp....
> 
> Is there a problem if the EQ sliders are not numerically in order? For instance I level matched both mids , then afterwards used the left over sliders to shape the combined curve....



Sliders are totally customizable. Shouldn't be a problem. Just messy.


----------



## bradknob

Babs said:


> Sliders are totally customizable. Shouldn't be a problem. Just messy.




I like that answer, I'm not that organized lol. Thanks.


----------



## Babs

bradknob said:


> I like that answer, I'm not that organized lol. Thanks.


What you could do, at leisure, even if not hooked up but can get to the file:
1. Go through each driver, write down all it's trims (freq, level, Q)
2. Reset EQ only, then save to new file so old file is preserved
3. Reapply those EQ trims manually in order choosing the bands closest to the particular trim, up through the spectrum, then save.

.. Would be a bit of a pain, but you'd be surprised I bet it'd go fast, then you'd have your EQ nicely in order at least throughout the spectrum. 

I've tried a few different ways with EQ.. My latest habit is sticking to just plain graphic, adjusting centers and Q's rarely as "graphic" without flipping to full "parametric". I'll do this for for individual drivers and pairs and centering by ear via 1/3 octave noise work. 

Then when I'm looking at the overall tonality with all drivers playing, I'll link mids, or link tweeters and flip over to parametric if necessary and stick it either at the bottom or top bands, outside the graphic bands for the driver pair. 

Which I expect I'll have an easier time when I get the 3-way done as the mid won't be taking up such a wide area from 80-2khz and beyond in the cross bandwidths, but just something like 80-400, then 400-3200ish maybe.


----------



## Yawar538

Having problems connecting DSP Pro with ATF DSP Tool
I connect the usb, launch tool, loads and shows demo mode.

1. Tried uninstalling and reinstalling software
2. Used different laptops
3. Removed and then reinserted usb wire from dsp end
4. Used multiple wires and removed extension cord

Did not touch the reset button yet because in case i do reset it, i lose all my settings which would render the setup non-configurable...and potentially i would be at nowhere...


Any guidelines..?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Yawar538 said:


> Having problems connecting DSP Pro with ATF DSP Tool
> I connect the usb, launch tool, loads and shows demo mode.
> 
> 1. Tried uninstalling and reinstalling software
> 2. Used different laptops
> 3. Removed and then reinserted usb wire from dsp end
> 4. Used multiple wires and removed extension cord
> 
> Did not touch the reset button yet because in case i do reset it, i lose all my settings which would render the setup non-configurable...and potentially i would be at nowhere...
> 
> 
> Any guidelines..?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


Granted you're in containment mode, trying to rectify the problem, but I can advise on preventing the scenario where you might risk losing your tune, I suggest maintaining a folder where you can always retrieve your tune file(s) should you need to, in case a DSP dies, you have to do a reset, etc. Heck, I keep mine on the cloud in google drive.

Now back to your situation.. Do you have the tune file saved on your laptop somewhere? You should if it was saved.. I believe Helix forces you to save it before leaving the app.

I notice helix likes to put the tune files under a folder under the particular tool revision I think.. I don't do that. I'll instead save it to a central folder (google drive mentioned above).


----------



## subterFUSE

Try another USB cable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

And also try a different usb port if you must. Use a new/known good usb cable to connect to the DSP. 
I assume you do NOT have the director controller in use- correct? If you do, than you must connect to the usb port on the Director controller.


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> And also try a different usb port if you must. Use a new/known good usb cable to connect to the DSP.
> I assume you do NOT have the director controller in use- correct? If you do, than you must connect to the usb port on the Director controller.


Speaking of, were you able to unbrick your director? Remember some time back a firmware update put you dead in the water.


----------



## ryanr7386

Subscribed


----------



## ryanr7386

What the heck, I scribe to this thread and everyone leaves? 

First question for everyone. I bought the DSP Pro and intend on turning on Three ADS Amplifiers from its remote out. Any concerns that I should have with overloading it?

Rick


----------



## piyush7243

ryanr7386 said:


> What the heck, I scribe to this thread and everyone leaves?
> 
> First question for everyone. I bought the DSP Pro and intend on turning on Three ADS Amplifiers from its remote out. Any concerns that I should have with overloading it?
> 
> Rick


I have used it on 4 amps at a time, shouldn't be a problem

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## ryanr7386

piyush7243 said:


> I have used it on 4 amps at a time, shouldn't be a problem
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Hey thanks for replying. That's a bit of good news.

Next question, I'm going to be using a Pioneer DEX-P99RS as my source unit and I am curious about running low level from the deck into the Helix versus running into an outboard Analog to Digital converter and then into the Helix.

Comments, suggestions welcome.

Thanks


----------



## piyush7243

ryanr7386 said:


> Hey thanks for replying. That's a bit of good news.
> 
> Next question, I'm going to be using a Pioneer DEX-P99RS as my source unit and I am curious about running low level from the deck into the Helix versus running into an outboard Analog to Digital converter and then into the Helix.
> 
> Comments, suggestions welcome.
> 
> Thanks


I used p99 only. No point trying any AD converter from P99. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## ryanr7386

piyush7243 said:


> I used p99 only. No point trying any AD converter from P99.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I'm still not so sure. US version does not have Optical out. At least that I'm aware of. Wouldn't it be better to have the signal sent into the Helix DSP Pro via optical rather than Analog?

Still learning here!


----------



## captainobvious

Babs said:


> Speaking of, were you able to unbrick your director? Remember some time back a firmware update put you dead in the water.


No, I was not. 

Fortunately though, my awesome dealer stepped up and got the replacement for me, no problem. He's always a pleasure to deal with and has always stood behind anything sold to me. Syracuse Customs- Steve Krell.

So now I have a working controller again 

I have not, however had the courage to try the firmware update again and probably won't. :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

ryanr7386 said:


> I'm still not so sure. US version does not have Optical out. At least that I'm aware of. Wouldn't it be better to have the signal sent into the Helix DSP Pro via optical rather than Analog?
> 
> Still learning here!



Hey Ryan. Digging your build.

To answer your question, no not necessarily. Unless you have some sort of noise that is only eliminated by using the optical than it shouldn't be a concern. As an example, I run the Alpine D800 head unit. It has optical and rca analog outs. I have both run to my DSP Pro. Now you may be asking yourself...why both? The reason is because on just about every source unit on the market, the only audio source that carries over the optical is the cd. I imagine this is because they are pulling the digital signal directly from the cd transport. The only unit I'm aware of that sends the other sources over the optical output is the new Alpine w957hd.
So, I can use the optical for cd playback or I can use the analog rca outs for all sources, including the cd. Because of this, I can make a direct comparison between the optical and rca sources by A/B'ing them instantly.

I can say with certainty that there was no readily noticeable improvement with the optical versus the RCA's. I still have a dead quiet noise floor with the RCA's (noted as such by a few people at a recent competition).


So I would say you are good to go with simply running RCAs into the DSP Pro. It's only a matter of your particular install/car and any noise introduced into the source.


Cheers,



Steve


----------



## lashlee

I've got an OEM Honda H/U feeding my DSP Pro with analog with no noise issues. I've got an Apple Airport Express hooked up via optical with no real change in the sound.


----------



## ryanr7386

captainobvious said:


> Hey Ryan. Digging your build.
> 
> To answer your question, no not necessarily. Unless you have some sort of noise that is only eliminated by using the optical than it shouldn't be a concern. As an example, I run the Alpine D800 head unit. It has optical and rca analog outs. I have both run to my DSP Pro. Now you may be asking yourself...why both? The reason is because on just about every source unit on the market, the only audio source that carries over the optical is the cd. I imagine this is because they are pulling the digital signal directly from the cd transport. The only unit I'm aware of that sends the other sources over the optical output is the new Alpine w957hd.
> So, I can use the optical for cd playback or I can use the analog rca outs for all sources, including the cd. Because of this, I can make a direct comparison between the optical and rca sources by A/B'ing them instantly.
> 
> I can say with certainty that there was no readily noticeable improvement with the optical versus the RCA's. I still have a dead quiet noise floor with the RCA's (noted as such by a few people at a recent competition).
> 
> 
> So I would say you are good to go with simply running RCAs into the DSP Pro. It's only a matter of your particular install/car and any noise introduced into the source.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> Steve


Absolutely no noise is expected! Haven't gotten that far with the install yet. The DEX-P99RS is as about as quite as it gets in the CD realm from what I've read with a 115dB S/N Ratio so should have a very quiet noise floor. 

I was merely curious if it was worth trying to switch the Analog signal over to Optical prior to the Helix. 

I appreciate the input and comment on my install! Been a very long project with many set backs. Hopefully here soon it will start to really come together.

Thanks, 
Rick


----------



## bimmerholic

Hi there. 

1) I want to use sources both from high level input and optical. Is this possible? The manual says that it will prioritize digital inputs over analog inputs, but I am not sure if the 'analog input' includes the high level input. 

2) If it is possible, should I use the remote in, or not?

3) The manual also says: "It is strictly forbidden to use the highlevel input and pre-amplifier inputs at the same time. This may cause severe damage to the pre-amplifier outputs of your car radio." Is this mean that I should not connect both input at the same time?


----------



## subterFUSE

bimmerholic said:


> Hi there.
> 
> 1) I want to use sources both from high level input and optical. Is this possible? The manual says that it will prioritize digital inputs over analog inputs, but I am not sure if the 'analog input' includes the high level input.
> 
> 2) If it is possible, should I use the remote in, or not?
> 
> 3) The manual also says: "It is strictly forbidden to use the highlevel input and pre-amplifier inputs at the same time. This may cause severe damage to the pre-amplifier outputs of your car radio." Is this mean that I should not connect both input at the same time?





It is perfectly fine to use High Level inputs on the Main routing, and then use Optical on the Digital routing.

If you use automatic signal detection to switch inputs, then your Digital will have priority over the High Level.

Or, you could get either a Director or the UR-2C remote controller, and use the button to switch between inputs manually.


----------



## bimmerholic

subterFUSE said:


> It is perfectly fine to use High Level inputs on the Main routing, and then use Optical on the Digital routing.
> 
> If you use automatic signal detection to switch inputs, then your Digital will have priority over the High Level.
> 
> Or, you could get either a Director or the UR-2C remote controller, and use the button to switch between inputs manually.



Thanks a lot! Yes, I am planning to use automatic signal detection. So I recon that I don't need to use the remote in; just connect high level input and optical, right?


----------



## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> It is perfectly fine to use High Level inputs on the Main routing, and then use Optical on the Digital routing.
> 
> If you use automatic signal detection to switch inputs, then your Digital will have priority over the High Level.
> 
> Or, you could get either a Director or the UR-2C remote controller, and use the button to switch between inputs manually.


On auto-switching to digital.. Anyone else notice if you're playing through each, the analog will still bleed into it and be heard behind the digital signal. :mean: Haven't tried it in quite a while but could remember when I tested the HDMI method and the airport express method.. Didn't matter how I got toslink, if there was music playing through analog low-level RCA's it could be heard if I auto-switched to optical. That's on a regular 8ch DSP rather than Pro, so don't know if the Pro does it or not.


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## lashlee

I haven't spent alot of time listening through my Airport Express via optical but I'll see if my DSP Pro has the same issue. I haven't noticed it, but I also haven't been listening for it.


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## 351cougarman

Is a HU required to operate the Helix DSP Pro? or can I just use my microsoft surface 3 to play music off of? My ms8 kicked the bucket..time to move up! with the ms8 I used the aux ports to my tablet and never needed a head unit. 

Reading the Helix Pro manual I think all that is needed Is one of the controllers in order to control the volume and other functions if I only used the coax and no head unit..is that correct? Thanks in advance


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## subterFUSE

Correct. No head unit required.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cheetahman

Sorry, this is a completely noob question:

What good is the optical output (with the HEC-BT module) on the DSP/DSP pro/P six? What instances would the optical out be used? The manual says, 

"The optical SPDIF output of the HEC BT module

The installation of the HEC module adds as well an additional digital
optical SPDIF output to your device. This output allows to transmit
any unprocessed input or processed output signals to other devices."

Unless it functions as an additional optical input as well? 

TIA


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## USP45

Well hell, I think my DSP Pro just bricked on me... 

I have literally only had it installed since Saturday in my truck and it was beginning to sound fantastic. I have spent HOURS running Rew EQ, listening to imaging tracks and basically getting it dialed in. Just this evening I finished doing an rta on each individual driver and getting the last time alignment tweaks done, it simply made my install sound amazing. I had one of my sisters sit in my truck this afternoon and she just had that stupid grin after listening to The Eagles Hotel California from the Hell Freezes Over performance. Even my wife was impressed which is saying a lot.

This morning I started my truck to go to work and it just showed a blinking red status light. Hmm, I plugged my computer into it, re-installed the latest program and it came on.

So this afternoon I did some tuning and all was good so shut it off. I had my wife come out to listen to a few songs, no problems and shut it off. She asked me to run to the grocery store and listeed to radio on way there, when I came out and started truck blinking red light was and no output. I got home and got the computer, restarted truck to blinking red light... Plugged in and once program came up it had a blinking red "!" and it said "input signal to high, clipping, reduce input signal". What!?! The radio was nearly muted and paused as well...

So I unplugged the rca's from the dsp and restarted. It said same thing and that is the only signal I am using. I already had the internal potentiometers set as low as they would go, but I opened it up to make sure nothing had happened and all still set to low. 

So far I have:

Reinstalled multiple tunes
Uninstalled and reinstalled program on computer three times
Completely reset dsp twice
Blown out dsp with dry compressed air
Tried both memory spots on dsp

Right now upon powering on it blinks the status light red as if no tune loaded, but it shows a tune in both memory positions.
When I plug it in to computer I get the error message and the red status light dimly blinks, but the clipping light on the other side of the unit that is to be used to set signal level never blinks even though it says input signal too high.
It will not power on the amps at all

Once when I powered it on and hooked up it had all of the output gains highlighted in red as if they were over driven, but only once.

So it looks like it has closed up shop, anyone have any ideas before I call Helix or exchange it? This sucks as the results from it were sooo impressive.


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## brumledb

Sounds very similar to how my P-Six behaved with the PCB went out...




USP45 said:


> Well hell, I think my DSP Pro just bricked on me...
> 
> I have literally only had it installed since Saturday in my truck and it was beginning to sound fantastic. I have spent HOURS running Rew EQ, listening to imaging tracks and basically getting it dialed in. Just this evening I finished doing an rta on each individual driver and getting the last time alignment tweaks done, it simply made my install sound amazing. I had one of my sisters sit in my truck this afternoon and she just had that stupid grin after listening to The Eagles Hotel California from the Hell Freezes Over performance. Even my wife was impressed which is saying a lot.
> 
> This morning I started my truck to go to work and it just showed a blinking red status light. Hmm, I plugged my computer into it, re-installed the latest program and it came on.
> 
> So this afternoon I did some tuning and all was good so shut it off. I had my wife come out to listen to a few songs, no problems and shut it off. She asked me to run to the grocery store and listeed to radio on way there, when I came out and started truck blinking red light was and no output. I got home and got the computer, restarted truck to blinking red light... Plugged in and once program came up it had a blinking red "!" and it said "input signal to high, clipping, reduce input signal". What!?! The radio was nearly muted and paused as well...
> 
> So I unplugged the rca's from the dsp and restarted. It said same thing and that is the only signal I am using. I already had the internal potentiometers set as low as they would go, but I opened it up to make sure nothing had happened and all still set to low.
> 
> So far I have:
> 
> Reinstalled multiple tunes
> Uninstalled and reinstalled program on computer three times
> Completely reset dsp twice
> Blown out dsp with dry compressed air
> Tried both memory spots on dsp
> 
> Right now upon powering on it blinks the status light red as if no tune loaded, but it shows a tune in both memory positions.
> When I plug it in to computer I get the error message and the red status light dimly blinks, but the clipping light on the other side of the unit that is to be used to set signal level never blinks even though it says input signal too high.
> It will not power on the amps at all
> 
> Once when I powered it on and hooked up it had all of the output gains highlighted in red as if they were over driven, but only once.
> 
> So it looks like it has closed up shop, anyone have any ideas before I call Helix or exchange it? This sucks as the results from it were sooo impressive.


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## thebookfreak58

Sometimes on my P Six I get the blinking red light. A reset of the tune (hold down the control button) brings it good again?


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## subterFUSE

Do you have the Director?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## USP45

I have held the reset button, pushed it and cursed at it, all to no avail.

No director right now although after playing with different tunes I was going to add one as the dsp is not easily accessible. 

As for troubleshooting I started with unit in truck and then pulled it to test on bench off of 12v power supply. I will call Helix today, but so far I have tried everything I can think of.


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## Yawar538

Quality on recent products of Helix is seriously disappointing.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## Denaliz

I came close to pulling the trigger on this- ne ding more Dsp channels for my upgrades coming up, but am going to wait for the new Audison Bit One HD- it's going to be stackable with my Bit Ten. Just not sure if it's coming out in Nov.


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## BlackHHR

Steve, we were able to un-brick your director !!

1. Connect the DSP to power and turn it on via remote ( done on test bench)
2. When the status LED lights up green or orange press the control pushbutton carefully for at least 5 seconds until the status led starts flashing red
3. Now the complete internal memory is erased. This means also that no sound will come out of the DSP nor any functionality is provided
4. Now connect a computer and open the latest version of the DSP PC-Tool (current version: 3.31b)
5. Start the software and click on the connect button
6. Now the software will prompt for a software update – press okay and the device will be automatically updated
7. Done


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## Yawar538

If the USB port on the Director is utilized, does it bypass the usb port on the DSP Pro itself?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## BlackHHR

Yawar538 said:


> If the USB port on the Director is utilized, does it bypass the usb port on the DSP Pro itself?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


Yes, plug into the director not the processor.


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## USP45

Hey guys, I just got off of the phone with BlackHHR at HAT a few minutes ago. If you have never talked to him before he is a great guy, extremely willing to help and offer input as to how to solve my issues. 

I just wanted to say something on here as we always hear about when something negative happens, but it should be noted when the good happens as well.


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## Babs

USP45 said:


> Hey guys, I just got off of the phone with BlackHHR at HAT a few minutes ago. If you have never talked to him before he is a great guy, extremely willing to help and offer input as to how to solve my issues.
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to say something on here as we always hear about when something negative happens, but it should be noted when the good happens as well.



I'll second that, having done business first with a little purchase, and now have gained new friends in the process. Goes for Greg and Scott both.


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## BlackHHR

Thanks guys !! 
The US based web site for Brax/Helix/Match is currently being updated with a few changes. 
Launching very soon.


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## Yawar538

BlackHHR said:


> Thanks guys !!
> The US based web site for Brax/Helix/Match is currently being updated with a few changes.
> Launching very soon.


URL?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## Pariah Zero

Yawar538 said:


> URL?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk




I may be wrong, but the old helixhifi.com now redirects to http://audiotec-fischer.us

Which looks like an updated site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BlackHHR

Correct ^^^^^


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## haakono

Hey guys, I have a p six dsp, but this question also applies equally to the DSP Pro...

What would be the ideal source/connection type to play a library consisting of wav, flac and mp3 files in your opinion? (disregarding the 96khz/DSD option for the Pro).

I would guess some kind of player that has an optical output would be preferrable? So the digital stream goes uninterrupted into the DSP? 

Or maybe a tablet, using the HD BT module? I used to have a P99RS, but I found that ordering a new one now would maybe be a waste of money since all the tuning will be done in the amp. So for now I have a cheap Kenwood mechless HU that plays FLAC, while I decide on a more optimal solution. Open to tips here


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## falcon

I know this is the DSP Pro thread, but I have a P Six question so hopefully I won't get ripped for asking here:

I grabbed speaker levels inputs from my front factory wiring and have those wired into inputs A and B. I am using that signal to feed all of my speakers in my two-way plus sub configuration. I am running fully-active. My goal is to use output channels A and B for the left channel tweet and mid, channels C and D for the right channel tweet and mid, and summing the channels for outputs E and F for my sub. 

I have a dual-voice coil 2-ohm sub, with each coil wired into outputs E and F. At a 2-ohm load, these should be getting 230 watts per coil, and should be pretty loud. The issue is that the output of the sub is very, very low. I am almost certain that I have configured the inputs and outputs incorrectly.

Can someone tell me exactly how to configure this?


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## miniSQ

falcon said:


> I know this is the DSP Pro thread, but I have a P Six question so hopefully I won't get ripped for asking here:
> 
> I grabbed speaker levels inputs from my front factory wiring and have those wired into inputs A and B. I am using that signal to feed all of my speakers in my two-way plus sub configuration. I am running fully-active. My goal is to use output channels A and B for the left channel tweet and mid, channels C and D for the right channel tweet and mid, and summing the channels for outputs E and F for my sub.
> 
> I have a dual-voice coil 2-ohm sub, with each coil wired into outputs E and F. At a 2-ohm load, these should be getting 230 watts per coil, and should be pretty loud. The issue is that the output of the sub is very, very low. I am almost certain that I have configured the inputs and outputs incorrectly.
> 
> Can someone tell me exactly how to configure this?


can you post a pic of your software matrix? How did you configure the sub?


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## falcon

miniSQ said:


> can you post a pic of your software matrix? How did you configure the sub?


I can't seem to upload photos taken from my iPhone. They are in jpg format and smaller than the max file size, so I am unsure of the issue. Obviously, I need help in more than one way!


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## bbfoto

falcon said:


> I know this is the DSP Pro thread, but I have a P Six question so hopefully I won't get ripped for asking here:
> 
> I grabbed speaker levels inputs from my front factory wiring and have those wired into inputs A and B. I am using that signal to feed all of my speakers in my two-way plus sub configuration. I am running fully-active. My goal is to use output channels A and B for the left channel tweet and mid, channels C and D for the right channel tweet and mid, and summing the channels for outputs E and F for my sub.
> 
> I have a dual-voice coil 2-ohm sub, with each coil wired into outputs E and F. At a 2-ohm load, these should be getting 230 watts per coil, and should be pretty loud. The issue is that the output of the sub is very, very low. I am almost certain that I have configured the inputs and outputs incorrectly.
> 
> Can someone tell me exactly how to configure this?


What Year, Make, Model, Trim Level, and Stereo Option is your vehicle?

Have you verified that the Front Left & Right Speaker Level Outputs from your factory/OEM Head Unit are in fact Full-Range signals?...with no built-in HPF applied?

After that, are All Head Unit EQ/Bass/Mid/Treble/Balance/FADER settings set to "0" or centered positions? 

Yes, please try to post your Input/Output Matrix. Thanks.


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## falcon

bbfoto said:


> What Year, Make, Model, Trim Level, and Stereo Option is your vehicle?
> 
> Have you verified that the Front Left & Right Speaker Level Outputs from your factory/OEM Head Unit are in fact Full-Range signals?...with no built-in HPF applied?
> 
> After that, are All Head Unit EQ/Bass/Mid/Treble/Balance/FADER settings set to "0" or centered positions?
> 
> Yes, please try to post your Input/Output Matrix. Thanks.


It's a 2013 Honda Accord Sport with the 4 speaker system. It does have a factory HPF, but I am not getting much from the sub when I run through my iPod connected via toslink directly into the DSP with lossless files. That was the main reason I suspected a problem with the input/output configuration. All other settings are centered. 

If someone can tell me why pictures taken on an iPhone in jpg format won't post and help me get them on, I will post pics right away. Thanks again!


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## falcon

I finally figured out how to post pictures...please let me know if this is correct

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2DEEP2

Look correct for what you're trying to do.

When you do toslink optical or coaxial, you would use the digital left and right. You can gain through digital input in the screen you're showing.

With anolog, input gain, for dsp pro at least, is on the dsp circuit board. I'm not sure how this is addressed with the P six. Also, with the dsp pro, you want to run channels g and h with low input signals.

I know in earlier software versions you wanted to use the last two channels for low level two inputs.

I assume you are running channels e and f to you sub amp.

If your gain structure is good and sub wired properly, you should get output on subs with the ipod.

Many oem systems cut off everything below 30 hz, so subs may not sound deep. You should still have output.

My dsp pro system produced 98 dB with only 0.2 volts max (peak) going in to it.


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## falcon

2DEEP2 said:


> Look correct for what you're trying to do.
> 
> When you do toslink optical or coaxial, you would use the digital left and right. You can gain through digital input in the screen you're showing.
> 
> With anolog, input gain, for dsp pro at least, is on the dsp circuit board. I'm not sure how this is addressed with the P six. Also, with the dsp pro, you want to run channels g and h with low input signals.
> 
> I know in earlier software versions you wanted to use the last two channels for low level two inputs.
> 
> I assume you are running channels e and f to you sub amp.
> 
> If your gain structure is good and sub wired properly, you should get output on subs with the ipod.
> 
> Many oem systems cut off everything below 30 hz, so subs may not sound deep. You should still have output.
> 
> My dsp pro system produced 98 dB with only 0.2 volts max (peak) going in to it.


Well this makes this even more confusing then...last night just to experiment, I changed the configuration on the subs from summed channels, to running the "front full L 100%" to one voice coil in the sub, and the "front full R 100%" into the second voice coil. The bass improved dramatically, although still below what I am expecting to hear. BTW, the bass improved both through the iPod via toslink, and the factory HU despite the HPF.

So this confirms to me that something either in the input/output configuration is causing issues, or I wired the sub wrong, which I am 99.9% confident is not the case.

I am also guessing that I need to play with the gains, as for now I have left all of them at the minimum.

Any other thoughts at the moment?


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## bradknob

How are you running toslink from the phone to the dsp?

Also, your pic is of the analog routing screen. If you're using toslink, you need to use the digital routing tab.


With that said, my jeep oem system boosted the low end quite a bit. When I switched to running optical from media player directly to the dsp, bypassing all factory processing, the response flattened out a lot. Which made the sub play lower. You may need to mess with your amp gains or settings in the dsp again.


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## falcon

bradknob said:


> How are you running toslink from the phone to the dsp?
> 
> Also, your pic is of the analog routing screen. If you're using toslink, you need to use the digital routing tab.
> 
> 
> With that said, my jeep oem system boosted the low end quite a bit. When I switched to running optical from media player directly to the dsp, bypassing all factory processing, the response flattened out a lot. Which made the sub play lower. You may need to mess with your amp gains or settings in the dsp again.


iPod through Pure i20. 

The digital routing is the same as the analog except for the name of the inputs.

I have very little bass output from either the factory HU (which has a HPF, so that would be expected), and the toslink. However, like I said before, when I changed the routing from summed channels to L 100% and R 100% on each voice coil, the bass improved dramatically for the digital and analog inputs - just less dramatically for the analog as expected.

Of course running separate L and R channels into each voice coil of a sub is potentially problematic, so I don't want to do that. Obviously I need to tweak the gains somewhat, but changing the routing matrix like I did should not have resulted in such a large boost in bass. Something has to be wrong somewhere.


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## haakono




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## iyamwutiam

Can you tell us more about the laptop, does it have dealer menu that the customer is unable to access for tuning. Or did you just put a skin on the laptop that's says Helix DSP pro?


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## Yawar538

iyamwutiam said:


> Can you tell us more about the laptop, does it have dealer menu that the customer is unable to access for tuning. Or did you just put a skin on the laptop that's says Helix DSP pro?


Looks like just an ordinary lenovo notebook with a sticker on it

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## iyamwutiam

Ok

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## haakono

Indeed  

Just a $200 Lenovo and $5 worth of brushed black and gloss black vinyl. It's only used to control the DSP anyway. 

Before:


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## speakerman99

Helix DSP software question here: I cannot find any info online or in version 3 manual from Helix regarding the "Input Alignment" screen. Access input alignment from the IO tab and select the EQ slider graphic in the top right of the screen. This brings up simple parametric eq titled "Input Aligment". I can't find any info on these functions. I suspect that this would be used to adjust less than optimal factory applied EQ? 

Background for the question: 
I've been playing with the Helix DSP and a P6MK2 for a few weeks now. I'm running highlevel inputs from the GMC Bose system on a 2015 Sierra (despite every fiber of my being protesting the OEM HU). P6 active to Hertz Mille 1600 in doors, AudioFrog GB25 in factory dash, Diamond Audio silk tweet in sail panel. Not yet installed RF mono block sub amp to 2 JL 10tw3's.

Results from various configurations of factory signal source (FrtLP,FrtHP,Rear full) and some gain adjustment have yielded varying results from "Not-half bad" to down right terrible, especially on the low-end. Bumping the FrtLow input gain from the factory 6x9 signal source improves overall balance somewhat, but midbass is muddy and lacks punch. Side note: using a SMD-DD1 yields distortion (per device indicator) at 40hz at all levels so I'm guessing I'm fighting factory eq. 

I had almost concluded that mid-bass issue was in the install. Imagine my surprise when I hooked Apple Airport Express to the Helix via optical and all my issues disappeared. Instantly Mid-bass was tight, mid-range found depth, and highs were crisp. Que Angels singing in my garage! So my issues might be in the configuration, but at least the speakers are physically able to perform.

Then I stumble upon the "input alignment" screen. Could anyone provide some info here? Thanks for your help!


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## captainobvious

If everything sounded great when using the apple airport express via optical, than that's a totally different input to the DSP and would make sense that it sounds great as compared to the stock source considering its a digital full range signal.

It would be odd for the factory signal to be clipping at all levels around 40hz. Are you saying even at like 1 or 2 clicks on the factory volume that 40hz is showing a clipped signal before hitting the dsp?


The input alignment is simply for EQing the "input" signal so that it can be adjusted to flat before processing- like correcting for factory boosted eq signals, etc.


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## speakerman99

I appreciate the help captainobvious!

I fully expected the optical input to sound better, just not THAT much better. I have been suspect of the bose factory settings from day one of this project. My chief complaint from the factory input has been a dreadful lack of mid-bass below 100Hz. These midbass components were working but output compared to mid/high signal was very low. Maybe it's common to drop high levels -18db and midrange around -12db, but I thought that was way too much just to balance output across all three stages. Comparatively I have -3db and -2db adjustments using the optical input plus a drastic improvement in midbass definition. 

My high level inputs from factory are separated into a LP front <200Hz, HP front >200Hz, and rear full range signal. Naturally, my first step to address the "balance" issue was to adjust gain on the LP front input. This helped a bit with sheer volume, but the resulting punch was muddy. 

Enter the SMD DD-1. It shows distortion from the LPF signal at 40Hz at even moderate volume levels! I even played the -20db track at 40Hz and got distortion according to the DD-1. I double checked all connections just in case and all appears to be in order. Come to think of it, I have been checking the distortion at the output side of the P6. I could unplug connector and check levels before the P6. The bose amp has a habit of not providing output when disconnected from speakers so that might not work? I would very much appreciate any experience or advice you could provide. 

Do you know where I can find documentation for the input alignment? I can generally figure these things out, but the only way I can figure how to properly adjust the input signal would be the standard RTA procedure performed with DSP adjustments set back to factory? Does that sound about right? Also, I generally tune input levels up a hair just to avoid any +positive eq. adjustments. I'm guessing I would need sizeable positive adjustments to the factory input at 50Hz and below. Would this degrade sound quality or am I worried about nothing? Thanks again for the help!


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## Pariah Zero

I have a quick question: do you trust your Helix DSP Pro enough to just use the active filter -- without a passive filter cap for tweeters.

I realize caps are cheap & relatively effective; the question is whether the Helix is reliable enough that you don't bother.

I think of it like asking if you trust the airline enough to get onboard without a parachute.

Nothing's gonna stop pilot error, but it'd be nice to know if the plane is reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LBaudio

I had no problems with any processor regarding tweeter output, HOWEVER I cant say this for Audison Bit1....but I wouldnt want BitOne in my system even if it was free,...Im not their Beta tester.

With Helix DSP PRO you must take care only when you run it for a first time before all levels and x-overs are set


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## SkizeR

Pariah Zero said:


> I have a quick question: do you trust your Helix DSP Pro enough to just use the active filter -- without a passive filter cap for tweeters.
> 
> I realize caps are cheap & relatively effective; the question is whether the Helix is reliable enough that you don't bother.
> 
> I think of it like asking if you trust the airline enough to get onboard without a parachute.
> 
> Nothing's gonna stop pilot error, but it'd be nice to know if the plane is reliable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well fortunately planes are built and tested and only released when they're actually done and ready, unlike some processors on the market. Seems like everyone let's their customers do the testing for them now a days. Also, auto pilot lol

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## rton20s




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## Pariah Zero

SkizeR said:


> Well fortunately planes are built and tested and only released when they're actually done and ready, unlike some processors on the market.



That is really my concern: I'm getting a DSP Pro, and just want to ask others who have bought it if it's trustworthy enough to skip filter caps.

I've read about quite a few other DSP's being unreliable, and am curious how the DSP Pro in particular ranks from a reliability/trustworthiness standpoint.

Unfortunately, I know from firsthand experience: rigorously testing software is not a problem _anybody_ knows how to do. It's a subject of intense research, but nobody has ever solved that problem. (Though there are plenty of charlatans who sell expensive snake oil and a false sense of security.)


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## rton20s

Pariah Zero said:


> That is really my concern: I'm getting a DSP Pro, and just want to ask others who have bought it if it's trustworthy enough to skip filter caps.
> 
> I've read about quite a few other DSP's being unreliable, and am curious how the DSP Pro in particular ranks from a reliability/trustworthiness standpoint.
> 
> Unfortunately, I know from firsthand experience: rigorously testing software is not a problem _anybody_ knows how to do. It's a subject of intense research, but nobody has ever solved that problem. (Though there are plenty of charlatans who sell expensive snake oil and a false sense of security.)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cobb2819

rton20s said:


>


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## davewpy

Pariah Zero said:


> That is really my concern: I'm getting a DSP Pro, and just want to ask others who have bought it if it's trustworthy enough to skip filter caps.
> 
> I've read about quite a few other DSP's being unreliable, and am curious how the DSP Pro in particular ranks from a reliability/trustworthiness standpoint.
> 
> Unfortunately, I know from firsthand experience: rigorously testing software is not a problem _anybody_ knows how to do. It's a subject of intense research, but nobody has ever solved that problem. (Though there are plenty of charlatans who sell expensive snake oil and a false sense of security.)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are worried about ur tweeters getting fried because processor decided to bypass your crossovers, buy the DSP PRO. Because the only time it did was when I buttered my finger and clicked bypass instead of mute.

Tweeters still alive. Woo hoo!

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

Faced the problem of bad usb port for no freaking reason. Had to get a director to allow me to tune setups.

Seriously disappointed

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

Yawar538 said:


> Faced the problem of bad usb port for no freaking reason. Had to get a director to allow me to tune setups.
> 
> Seriously disappointed
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


No warranty?

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

davewpy said:


> No warranty?
> 
> Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


From where I am located, sending back and forth is a PITA and will cost me same as getting a director and prolly a bag of nachos for me to sit back and tune in those extra 20 setups.

So I saved some bucks and bough the director.

Point is I didn't expect this off a 800+ dollar DSP and I am certainly not alone. Many got it fixed in warranty. 

The port was solid as a rock. Still went bad. Was used only 2 times since it was installed.

Nothing is superior to this in processing and hence one has to take the fall for it...


----------



## ryanr7386

Who's using the Hec Bluetooth Module? Give me some Likes and dislikes that you have with using this add on module please. Thanks guys.


----------



## Pariah Zero

Yawar538 said:


> From where I am located, sending back and forth is a PITA and will cost me same as getting a director and prolly a bag of nachos for me to sit back and tune in those extra 20 setups.



Two questions: where are you?!? I can easily see being able to buy the director for the cost of shipping in North Korea, where you have to get it smuggled in & out...

Second question: are you really going to do 20 setups — and for only a bag of nachos? 

I don't want to sound critical, but I had to pay myself 6 months worth of diaper changes just to get two setups. I think you can do better than one bag of nachos for 20.


----------



## Davidkelly

ryanr7386 said:


> Who's using the Hec Bluetooth Module? Give me some Likes and dislikes that you have with using this add on module please. Thanks guys.


Hec is what i use with my iphone 6 s sound quality is really good . That's the only source i have try so I can't compare lol only dislike is that it take like 15 or more seconds to connect to my phone.i love the shutdown my amps if a pause the music and it comes right back on when i start playing again


----------



## Pariah Zero

Davidkelly said:


> Hec is what i use with my iphone 6 s sound quality is really good.



I don't get how it could be bad; Bluetooth is a spread spectrum, error corrected digital connection; it either works or it doesn't. (Though I've read that some DSP's have lousy Bluetooth that falls into the "doesn't work" category)

Bluetooth audio is nearly always streamed using a codec called SBC (a relative of MP2). Some newer Bluetooth devices (including the HEC BT) also have AptX codec support, and some can do AAC or MP3 — if both ends support it. Otherwise, you get SBC.

Either way, Bluetooth audio is lossy compressed audio. It's just a question of how good the compression codec is. (Which is an entirely different thing than how much bandwidth it uses — some codecs require a lot more bandwidth and still have lower quality)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

Pariah Zero said:


> Two questions: where are you?!? I can easily see being able to buy the director for the cost of shipping in North Korea, where you have to get it smuggled in & out...
> 
> Second question: are you really going to do 20 setups — and for only a bag of nachos?
> 
> I don't want to sound critical, but I had to pay myself 6 months worth of diaper changes just to get two setups. I think you can do better than one bag of nachos for 20.


I just have 1 build

20 setups = 20 different configurations inside the Helix Director.


----------



## Pariah Zero

Yawar538 said:


> I just have 1 build
> 
> 20 setups = 20 different configurations inside the Helix Director.



You could replace "setup" with "configuration" in my post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

Pariah Zero said:


> You could replace "setup" with "configuration" in my post.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You completely missed the point. 

However goodluck in getting your DSP Pro


----------



## 351cougarman

Where can I purchase the director? Crutchfield only has the URC-2 available 

Thanks in advance


----------



## BlackHHR

351cougarman said:


> Where can I purchase the director? Crutchfield only has the URC-2 available
> 
> Thanks in advance


Where are you located? 

Follow the link, Scroll down to the bottom of the page , there is a map with locations. 

Audiotec Fischer USA


----------



## 351cougarman

I'm located in Los Angeles

Thanks will do.


----------



## BlackHHR

351cougarman said:


> I'm located in Los Angeles
> 
> Thanks will do.


If you are still having issues locating a dealer, please give us a call.

770-888-8200 Ask for Greg or Joey.


----------



## Babs

BlackHHR said:


> If you are still having issues locating a dealer, please give us a call.
> 
> 770-888-8200 Ask for Greg or Joey.


^ Yep.. Got THE new Audiotec-Fischer distribution in the house.  They'll fix you right up.


----------



## Scott Buwalda

Crutchfield has recently ordered several Directors. They should be in stock now.


----------



## Yawar538

Hate the fact that the touch screen on the director is resistive.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

Scott Buwalda said:


> Crutchfield has recently ordered several Directors. They should be in stock now.



I certainly can't find it. I'd be on it like white on rice if there's a store URL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

Yawar538 said:


> Hate the fact that the touch screen on the director is resistive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk



Eww. Resistive touch screens bug me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

Pariah Zero said:


> Eww. Resistive touch screens bug me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is not much scrolling to do via touch since there is a knob. You just have to select the option by pressing it with your finger instead of the tap of a capacitive screen. 

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

Extra wire needs to be hidden away soon...

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

Yawar538 said:


> Extra wire needs to be hidden away soon...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk



That looks almost exactly like what I'm planning on doing. Nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

Yawar538 said:


> From where I am located, sending back and forth is a PITA and will cost me same as getting a director and prolly a bag of nachos for me to sit back and tune in those extra 20 setups.
> 
> So I saved some bucks and bough the director.
> 
> Point is I didn't expect this off a 800+ dollar DSP and I am certainly not alone. Many got it fixed in warranty.
> 
> The port was solid as a rock. Still went bad. Was used only 2 times since it was installed.
> 
> Nothing is superior to this in processing and hence one has to take the fall for it...



This is the first I've heard of the physical USB port on the dsp not working.

Bummer


----------



## captainobvious

Yawar538 said:


> Hate the fact that the touch screen on the director is resistive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk




Curious...why?


----------



## Yawar538

captainobvious said:


> Curious...why?


Paid 300 bucks for a remote so expected quality from ATF in every aspect..

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## MrGreen83

Yawar538 said:


> Paid 300 bucks for a remote so expected quality from ATF in every aspect..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yawar538

captainobvious said:


> Curious...why?


While driving or in car the input of selection should be easiest. With the capacitive touch, registering of touch input would have been least of my concern as opposed to resistive where I have to ensure that I have selected the right option. In Director it feels weird to still have resistive technology where you have to ensure your finger goes an extra mm to make the touch register where even the newest double dins are coming in capacitive screens... Quality...and convenience...tech advancement

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

Cost prohibitive...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

subterFUSE said:


> Cost prohibitive..



The cost of a 2.8" QVGA capacitive touchscreen is typically $20-30 USD higher, but it definitely isn't prohibitive.

The characteristic tactile air gap for each press (touch the membrane, and then press the membrane to the screen) for resistive touchscreens is distracting, and always leaves the user wondering if they've actually "tapped" successfully.

Resistive touchscreens require longer presses to register the input; short taps frequently don't register. They can't do multi-touch, and frequently do not register the correct position.

There's also the lower optical clarity and brightness that is characteristic to resistive touchscreens. Again, it's unpleasant and unwelcome.

For something that is in a car, and likely to be used by a driver, my priority is in minimal thought and distraction to use it.

Resistive touchscreens fail on that point. I have several devices that use resistive touchscreens, and they are universally unpleasant to use, and require more thought and focus than they should.

I've also used some truly dreadful resistive touchscreens - so bad it's effectively impossible to use.

I have yet to see a bad capacitive touchscreen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MrGreen83

Denaliz said:


> I came close to pulling the trigger on this- ne ding more Dsp channels for my upgrades coming up, but am going to wait for the new Audison Bit One HD- it's going to be stackable with my Bit Ten. Just not sure if it's coming out in Nov.




Can't wait 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

Yawar538 said:


> While driving or in car the input of selection should be easiest. With the capacitive touch, registering of touch input would have been least of my concern as opposed to resistive where I have to ensure that I have selected the right option. In Director it feels weird to still have resistive technology where you have to ensure your finger goes an extra mm to make the touch register where even the newest double dins are coming in capacitive screens... Quality...and convenience...tech advancement
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


The remote IMO is not set up to be used while driving other than the volume control, and maybe the toggle to adjust the sub level. But even that is a risky move to keep your eyes off the road long enough to do that.


----------



## Yawar538

miniSQ said:


> The remote IMO is not set up to be used while driving other than the volume control, and maybe the toggle to adjust the sub level. But even that is a risky move to keep your eyes off the road long enough to do that.


Yes its not safe and completely stupid to do that however one while switching between sub volume and main volume has to touch the relevant option in order to select it. Pressing the knob takes it into ATT mode which IMO should be configurable to allow switching between main volume control and sub level control. Would be quite handy

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

Yawar538 said:


> Paid 300 bucks for a remote so expected quality from ATF in every aspect..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk



Brushed aluminum housing, color touchscreen display in a compact footprint and a nice quality pot. It seems to be as good or better than most on the market, especially considering the price- no?


----------



## captainobvious

Pariah Zero said:


> The cost of a 2.8" QVGA capacitive touchscreen is typically $20-30 USD higher, but it definitely isn't prohibitive.
> 
> The characteristic tactile air gap for each press (touch the membrane, and then press the membrane to the screen) for resistive touchscreens is distracting, and always leaves the user wondering if they've actually "tapped" successfully.
> 
> Resistive touchscreens require longer presses to register the input; short taps frequently don't register. They can't do multi-touch, and frequently do not register the correct position.
> 
> There's also the lower optical clarity and brightness that is characteristic to resistive touchscreens. Again, it's unpleasant and unwelcome.
> 
> For something that is in a car, and likely to be used by a driver, my priority is in minimal thought and distraction to use it.
> 
> Resistive touchscreens fail on that point. I have several devices that use resistive touchscreens, and they are universally unpleasant to use, and require more thought and focus than they should.
> 
> I've also used some truly dreadful resistive touchscreens - so bad it's effectively impossible to use.
> 
> I have yet to see a bad capacitive touchscreen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok, I think we need to exercise some common sense here. For a screen size of 2.8" I don't think the intention was for a user to be operating touch controls while driving. In addition, I'll state that I have never- not once, pressed the screen and NOT had it perform the function I pressed. It does exactly what the user needs it to do in a compact enclosure with good looks and a low price point. Objective achieved.
This isn't something the user is going to be constantly operating outside of volume controls. The screen clarity and brightness is "unpleasant and unwelcome" ? Really?? :laugh:


----------



## Yawar538

captainobvious said:


> Brushed aluminum housing, color touchscreen display in a compact footprint and a nice quality pot. It seems to be as good or better than most on the market, especially considering the price- no?


Considering the price, my expectations...
1. Bigger screen
2. Mounting gear included in package
3. Capacitive screen

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

captainobvious said:


> It does exactly what the user needs it to do in a compact enclosure with good looks and a low price point.



There's nothing wrong with a personal preference; for me, having what I "need" is necessary but insufficient. Resistive touchscreens irritate me on many different levels.

I suspect we all have similar preferences for car audio. Otherwise we would all be using factory audio equipment- it does what the user _needs_ as well.

I'm not saying the Director is a bad product; I'm saying I hate resistive touchscreens. 

For the record, I'm trying to get a Director; availability is my #1 problem: the only Helix distributor within 300 miles stopped selling Helix when they un-partnered with Rockford. Crutchfield doesn't carry them yet (and who knows if they ever will... I know Scott Buwalda said they shipped a bunch to Crutchfield recently, so there _may_ be hope.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

Pariah Zero said:


> For the record, I'm trying to get a Director; availability is my #1 problem: the only Helix distributor within 300 miles stopped selling Helix when they un-partnered with Rockford. Crutchfield doesn't carry them yet (and who knows if they ever will... I know Scott Buwalda said they shipped a bunch to Crutchfield recently, so there _may_ be hope.)



For the Helix DSP Director remote, email a customer service representative named "Chance" at Crutchfield...

markc AT Crutchfield DOT com

or call Chance at 800-388-2911, extension # 3244.

If they do not have any in stock, they can order one for you, although Crutchfield are also at the mercy of AT-Fischer as to how long it will take to receive stock.

HTH.


----------



## BlackHHR

bbfoto said:


> For the Helix DSP Director remote, email a customer service representative named "Chance" at Crutchfield...
> 
> markc AT Crutchfield DOT com
> 
> or call Chance at 800-388-2911, extension # 3244.
> 
> If they do not have any in stock, they can order one for you, although Crutchfield are also at the mercy of AT-Fischer as to how long it will take to receive stock.
> 
> HTH.


Meh, I shipped Crutchfield 5 Directors last week. They should be on the site soon.


----------



## speakerman99

I recently bought a P6 and Director from a dealer in Georgia. Local guy, lots of hands on experience. I will be a return customer. Email James @ [email protected]


----------



## Quintero

I'll be completing my install with the Helix DSP Pro / Director / and BT-HEC combo. I currently have a Mobridge DA1, JL HD600.4 series amps (2), Hybrid Audio Legatia 3way speakers [L1 Pro R2 tweeters) front, 2way Hybrid Audio C61-2V2 rears, and two JL 10w6v3 subs powered by JL HD750.1 [installed in a 2013 Jaguar XF]

For the record, this Infotainment system on the Jag has been a pain. If you're on the fence on whether you want to buy a Jag or not, be prepared to spend some money to significantly improve the sound if you do


----------



## BlackHHR

Director molded into a new dash bezel.
We moved a few things around, added optical toslink output to the 9255 and put it back together.


----------



## BMW528i

Director looks awesome mounted there! Great job!


----------



## seafish

Look great...curious if you are using the ANY of the DRZ9255 dsp functions or does it only serve as an HU for the Helix pro??


----------



## Elektra

BlackHHR said:


> Director molded into a new dash bezel.
> 
> We moved a few things around, added optical toslink output to the 9255 and put it back together.




Was it easy to add a optical to that HU? How did you do it? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

Elektra said:


> Was it easy to add a optical to that HU? How did you do it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The head unit was sent to Chris Lewis. The 9255 had a proprietary style optical output connector. It was converted to toslink.


----------



## BlackHHR

seafish said:


> Look great...curious if you are using the ANY of the DRZ9255 dsp functions or does it only serve as an HU for the Helix pro??


DSP Pro only for tuning.


----------



## ryanr7386

This will seem to many as a dumb question on this forum so I apologize up front! I'm new to the "World" of the DSP, so here goes. 

I'm currently about half way through this thread and yet have read of any similar questions so this is to verify my initial suspicion. I am only reading in the manual that you need to adjust the gain settings inside the DSP Pro if you are using the high level inputs. Unless I have missed it, it speaks nothing of using low level inputs and having to adjust the internal gains. 

Is this so? Am I overlooking something?


----------



## davewpy

The same adjustment knobs adjusts for low level inputs as well.

Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

ryanr7386 said:


> Unless I have missed it, it speaks nothing of using low level inputs and having to adjust the internal gains.
> 
> Is this so? Am I overlooking something?



Page 17, Figure 1, 2, and 3.

High level inputs are adjustable for 2-4 V input on all channels, with a jumper (fig 3) which lets you use 250-500 mV on channels G & H.

That lets you use channels G and H as Aux inputs for a phone, tablet, or other audio player.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ryanr7386

davewpy said:


> The same adjustment knobs adjusts for low level inputs as well.
> 
> Sent from my OnePlus 2 using Tapatalk





Pariah Zero said:


> Page 17, Figure 1, 2, and 3.
> 
> High level inputs are adjustable for 2-4 V input on all channels, with a jumper (fig 3) which lets you use 250-500 mV on channels G & H.
> 
> That lets you use channels G and H as Aux inputs for a phone, tablet, or other audio player.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure how in the hell i skipped over it but duh! 

So here's the issue I'm having. I'm currently running a Pioneer DEX-P99RS via low level into inputs A/B. I cannot get the clip LED on the Helix to register a clipped signal at all with the P99RS's volume full tilt. I believe this is somewhat normal but anyone else experiencing this issue?


----------



## thebookfreak58

I had the same with an 80PRS feeding into a P SIX DSP. Couldn't get the clipped light on at full gain even!


----------



## ryanr7386

thebookfreak58 said:


> I had the same with an 80PRS feeding into a P SIX DSP. Couldn't get the clipped light on at full gain even!


So did you leave the gains full tilt then?


----------



## thebookfreak58

Yep!


----------



## seafish

I understand that the Clarion DRZ9255 HU also does not clip at full volume, so likely what you guys are experiencing is simply a positive result of using a top quality HU.

That being said, and also on the subject of Helix DSP inputs, which I plan to use in my build with the DRZ9255, can someone confirm that you can mix and match both high level and RCA inputs on the Helix DSP for different channel inputs. TIA


----------



## brumledb

seafish said:


> I understand that the Clarion DRZ9255 HU also does not clip at full volume, so likely what you guys are experiencing is simply a positive result of using a top quality HU.
> 
> That being said, and also on the subject of Helix DSP inputs, which I plan to use in my build with the DRZ9255, can someone confirm that you can mix and match both high level and RCA inputs on the Helix DSP for different channel inputs. TIA




I don't think they are really worried about the 80prs clipping. The issue is that the 80prs is rated for 5v max output voltage and Helix input section is rated for 4v max. I have read that the 80prs does not clip. 

I actually installed an 80prs this past weekend. I didn't use my O-scope but I did measure the voltage. The volume goes to 62. At 60 I was getting ~2.6v, 61 ~3.8v, and then like 4.8v at 62. I was using 0db test tones. 

Are you wanting to mix the high and low level signal for 1 tune? Or will you be using 2 different sources, one with high level and one with low level?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

brumledb said:


> Are you wanting to mix the high and low level signal for 1 tune? Or will you be using 2 different sources, one with high level and one with low level?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am talking about potentially mixing both high and low level inputs for one tune...


----------



## brumledb

seafish said:


> I am talking about mixing both high and low level inputs for one tune...




Maybe someone has actually tried that and could give results but this is from the manual:

"Important: It is strictly forbidden to use the highlevel input and pre-amplifier inputs at the same time. This may cause severe damage to the pre-amplifier outputs of your car radio."

What is your proposed configuration?

Right now I have my OEM high level input ran into JL Fix82 and then RCA's into Helix channel A and B. Then I have 2 RCA outputs from 80prs into Helix channel E and F. 

On the tunes for the OEM headunit, in the I/O matrix, I only select channels A and B for my input signal. And then for 80prs tunes I only select channels E and F for my input signal. 

Then I can "change" sources by loading a different tune because only the input from one source is ever active.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

brumledb said:


> Maybe someone has actually tried that and could give results but this is from the manual:
> 
> "Important: It is strictly forbidden to use the highlevel input and pre-amplifier inputs at the same time. This may cause severe damage to the pre-amplifier outputs of your car radio."
> 
> What is your proposed configuration?
> 
> Right now I have my OEM high level input ran into JL Fix82 and then RCA's into Helix channel A and B. Then I have 2 RCA outputs from 80prs into Helix channel E and F.
> 
> On the tunes for the OEM headunit, in the I/O matrix, I only select channels A and B for my input signal. And then for 80prs tunes I only select channels E and F for my input signal.
> 
> Then I can "change" sources by loading a different tune because only the input from one source is ever active.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


THANKS for the quote fromthe manual...likely won't work with what I had in mind, which IS complicated AND stricyly experimental and involves utilizing an Audiocontrol System 90/11 to provide center channel information for a front mono center while using the rear "spatially enhanced" low level output from it for modified rear fill using additonal delay through the Helix DSP. 

That being said, if I can find or trade an ESP-3 instead of the AC 90/11 that I already have, then the problem is moot, as the ESP-3 uses ONLY low level outputs for all three channels.


----------



## brumledb

seafish said:


> It IS complicated AND experimental and involves utilizing an Audiocontrol System 90/11 to provide center channel information for a front mono center while using the rear "spatially enhanced" low level output from it for modified rear fill using additonal delay through the Helix DSP.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said, if I can find or trade an ESP-3 instead of the AC 90/11 that I already have, then the problem is moot, as the ESP-3 uses ONLY low level outputs for all three channels.




That DOES sound complicated. 

I actually have the regular DSP and not the Pro model. So, I have 7 channels tied up with the fronts and sub. With the last channel, I am running a L-R signal from Helix to Minidsp 2x4 loaded with rear fill plugin. That gives me the additional delay needed for acoustic rear fill and I invert the signal going to the Right rear for the R-L signal.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## seafish

brumledb said:


> That DOES sound complicated.
> 
> I actually have the regular DSP and not the Pro model. So, I have 7 channels tied up with the fronts and sub. With the last channel, I am running a L-R signal from Helix to Minidsp 2x4 loaded with rear fill plugin. That gives me the additional delay needed for acoustic rear fill and I invert the signal going to the Right rear for the R-L signal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well there you go...thought of that as well at one point, but kinda of want to play with the AC90/11 or ESP3 for the rear fill. Going to try to trade the 90/11 for an ESP3, which like I said earlier, uses only low level outputs. Thanka again for the info!!


----------



## falcon

seafish said:


> I understand that the Clarion DRZ9255 HU also does not clip at full volume, so likely what you guys are experiencing is simply a positive result of using a top quality HU.
> 
> That being said, and also on the subject of Helix DSP inputs, which I plan to use in my build with the DRZ9255, can someone confirm that you can mix and match both high level and RCA inputs on the Helix DSP for different channel inputs. TIA


Page 18, bullet point #1:

Important: It is strictly forbidden to use the
highlevel input and pre-amplifier inputs at the
same time. This may cause severe damage to
the pre-amplifier outputs of your car radio


----------



## Thunderhaake

As falcon said. It's not possible! You have to use a high-low-converter or something similar.


----------



## Pariah Zero

ryanr7386 said:


> Not sure how in the hell i skipped over it but duh!
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot get the clip LED on the Helix to register a clipped signal at all with the P99RS's volume full tilt. I believe this is somewhat normal but anyone else experiencing this issue?



The DSP Pro's input gain might be counter intuitive: you turn the screw clockwise to _decrease_ the gain. (Look at the diagram again: full clockwise sets the input level at 4V. Full counter clockwise is 2V). That's one possibility.

Another: let's think about clipping for a second.

Clipping happens when a transistor is pushed to its limits, right? There are two places for that to happen: output from the head unit is clipped, and input (gain) to the DSP clips the signal.

In my mind, a well-designed and built head unit should never clip its output at max. Given the market segment that head unit targets, I'm betting it's designed well enough the head unit never clips.

The DSP Pro's low level inputs are 2-4 V. Not all low level outputs reach as high as 2V, though that head unit advertises 5V low level outputs.

I'm a curious enough guy I'd put a multimeter on the low level output with a 0dBFS test tone, and see what the head unit actually pushes.

It could also be that the DSP Pro can handle a larger input voltage than advertised... Like a well engineered product should.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pariah Zero

Deleting duplicate post....


----------



## piyush7243

ryanr7386 said:


> Not sure how in the hell i skipped over it but duh!
> 
> So here's the issue I'm having. I'm currently running a Pioneer DEX-P99RS via low level into inputs A/B. I cannot get the clip LED on the Helix to register a clipped signal at all with the P99RS's volume full tilt. I believe this is somewhat normal but anyone else experiencing this issue?


Pioneer p99,80prs and other new pioneer head units don't clip at full tilt. I have tested them with helix dsp pro n no clipping. That's normal

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## ryanr7386

piyush7243 said:


> Pioneer p99,80prs and other new pioneer head units don't clip at full tilt. I have tested them with helix dsp pro n no clipping. That's normal
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Hey thanks for replying, didn't realize you had. I came to that conclusion from previous replies so thanks again.


----------



## Knobby Digital

Any developments in using OSX with DSP Tool 3? I've installed Parallels and connecting to the DSP isn't very consistent. It's temperamental, takes a long time to connect, and when attempting to load a tuning file it'll either take forever or fail. I'll do the Boot Camp thing if necessary, but would rather preserve the 50GB on my SSD as, especially now that I have Parallels, it's the only thing I'd use the Windows partition for.

Addt'l info: I'm using a P6 amp that's yet to be installed. These tests are with the unit on my kitchen tabl... errrmm.. bench. This is the Helix DSP thread with the most extensive OSX discussion that came up in search.


----------



## Pariah Zero

Knobby Digital said:


> Any developments in using OSX with DSP Tool 3? I've installed Parallels and connecting to the DSP isn't very consistent. It's temperamental, takes a long time to connect, and when attempting to load a tuning file it'll either take forever or fail.



Emulation is tempermental in general; especially for anything that is timing sensitive (like USB). I have a lot of USB devices that flat out won't work with an emulator (including Parallels).

You can try Virtuabox (it's free), which might perform better for you. I'm not hopeful (it's still emulated), but it's possible as its USB emulation may be different than parallels.

I use an external drive for boot camp. It's slower than an internal drive, but it gets the job done. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Knobby Digital

Thanks for the tips. I'll try Virtuabox, and I didn't even think about running Win from an external drive. Now that I think of it, an SD card would be the ideal solution if none of the emulators work.


----------



## subterFUSE

I use boot camp and it works great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pariah Zero

subterFUSE said:


> I use boot camp and it works great.



Well, boot camp works great. Windows is a hopeless turd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Knobby Digital

Interestingly enough, I was putting a few back with my neighbor last night and he asked if I knew anyone looking to buy a laptop. So I bought this little 11" Dell 2-in-1 thing from him. The screen can fold backwards and the keyboard becomes the stand. Kinda neat but useless for my purpose. The hardware totally sucks compared to Macbooks and that's to say nothing of Windows 8. Yeesh... I upgraded my mom's laptop to Win10, but I didn't remember 8 sucking _this_ god damn bad. If it's too frustrating to use I'll still end up doing the Macbook with bootcamp, which honestly seems very possible.


----------



## MKnopfler

I just ordered the Ibasso DX80 to use as my hi-rez audio player. Using the DX80's mini optical into the Helix should give me clean hi-rez audio and allow me to continue using the OEM HU with its 6 CD changer, FM receiver, and steering wheel controls.


----------



## lashlee

I use an APE in a similar fashion, where the OEM H/U does my standard stuff and the optical is there if I want it!


----------



## ryanr7386

Anyone willing to help out a dumb country boy configure his DSP Pro I/O settings? I cannot get any signal from the remaining outputs E - J! I'll do my best to explain my setup below.

You can tell me if I'm crazy but here goes. Or tell me if this won't work period!

System configuration as follows:

Clarion DRZ9255 is set to Standard mode and utilizing the Front (Low) outputs with the Crossover set to (Through). These outputs are feeding Inputs A & B on the Helix. The Rear set of outputs on the DRZ are feeding Inputs C & D on the Helix and are set to (Through) as well. The DRZ will be handling the the Sub. Amps are ADS, I have two PH15's which are 6 Channel and one PQ20 which is running Sub duties.

A-Pillar tweeters and mid-range which are as follows:

Left A-Pillar Tweet -- Ch 1 on amp and Output A on Helix
Right A-Pillar Tweet -- Ch 2 on amp and Output B on Helix
Left A-Pillar M/R -- Ch 3 on amp and Output C on Helix
Right A-Pillar M/R -- Ch 4 on amp and Output D on Helix


3-Way Active setup in Doors

Left Tweet -- Ch 5 on amp and Output E on Helix
Right Tweet -- Ch 6 on amp and Output F on Helix
Left M/R -- Ch 1 on amp and Output G on Helix
Right M/R -- Ch 2 on amp and Output H on Helix
Left M/B -- Ch (Bridged) 3/4 on amp and Output I on Helix
Right M/B -- Ch (Bridged) 5/6 on amp and Output J on Helix

Any help would be MUCH Appreciated!


----------



## Knobby Digital

Post a screenshot of the I/O settings in the DSP tool.

You may have an issue running the sub directly out of the HU because there is a delay in the DSP.


----------



## ryanr7386

This is where I'm getting completely confused. Can you share the setting Files between users perhaps. I could forward the file as well.


----------



## ryanr7386

That didn't work!


----------



## ryanr7386

Try this.


----------



## Knobby Digital

That photo is really small and grainy, but it's good enough to see that you don't have those ouputs configured properly. You can drag and drop the inputs to the channel you want them to play on.


----------



## ryanr7386

Knobby Digital said:


> That photo is really small and grainy, but it's good enough to see that you don't have those ouputs configured properly. You can drag and drop the inputs to the channel you want them to play on.


This might be better,


----------



## Knobby Digital

Configure it so it looks like this:


----------



## ryanr7386

Knobby Digital said:


> That photo is really small and grainy, but it's good enough to see that you don't have those ouputs configured properly. You can drag and drop the inputs to the channel you want them to play on.


I understand the drag and drop function but its my understanding that you have to adjust the percentages as well correct. Or is this all that needs done?


----------



## Knobby Digital

There was a small error on the last image I posted. Fixed it above.


----------



## ryanr7386

Knobby Digital said:


> Configure it so it looks like this:


I'll give it a whirl. I reconfigured a sample which is slightly different I see.


----------



## Knobby Digital

ryanr7386 said:


> I understand the drag and drop function but its my understanding that you have to adjust the percentages as well correct. Or is this all that needs done?


That's all that needs done. The percentages are only if you want to mix channels together and do some artful blending.


----------



## ryanr7386

Knobby Digital said:


> That's all that needs done. The percentages are only if you want to mix channels together and do some artful blending.


Sounds Good. I'll try this out tomorrow. Appreciate the Help!


----------



## Knobby Digital

Cheers. Good luck!


----------



## bertholomey

Subbing to this thread....will eventually have to read more than just page 40 and beyond.....


----------



## Pariah Zero

I'm using a factory head unit and high level inputs.

I didn't see a place in the manual... is there a way to adjust the "power off" level for my high level inputs? (When the ACC is ON, but the head unit is "off" the Helix Pro times out, powers down, then immediately back up... forever.)

It does power down fully when ACC is turned off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

Pariah Zero said:


> I'm using a factory head unit and high level inputs.
> 
> I didn't see a place in the manual... is there a way to adjust the "power off" level for my high level inputs? (When the ACC is ON, but the head unit is "off" the Helix Pro times out, powers down, then immediately back up... forever.)
> 
> It does power down fully when ACC is turned off.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, signal sensing. The issue is your factory head unit is pulsing a signal after your car is turned off. One would suspect it is to monitor the cars functions after the car has been retired from duty.
The designers have integrated an adjustable auto sense threshold to eliminate this problem.
Activate power saving mode and adjust the time out feature.


----------



## .69077

Thinking about the DSP Pro for my Tundra truck build. I was going to retain my factory radio and high level into the DSP Pro, would I be better off using something like a JL fix off the factory wiring and Toslink into the Pro?


----------



## Pariah Zero

m249saw said:


> Thinking about the DSP Pro for my Tundra truck build. I was going to retain my factory radio and high level into the DSP Pro, would I be better off using something like a JL fix off the factory wiring and Toslink into the Pro?



I was thinks my the same thing a couple months ago. After thinking and installing my conclusion: Just use the DSP Pro. The DSP Pro has "better" ADC's - 24 bit, 192 kHz. The Fix has a 48 kHz ADC. In all honesty, the difference is academic, but your choices are:

• A "lower" grade 24/48 digital signal piped a few feet to your DSP Pro. (Giving the DSP less to work with, but at frequencies only audible to cats & dogs)
• A clean analog run over a few feet to the DSP Pro, which will then generate & use a 24/96 digital signal.

Either way, you're taking a high level signal, digitizing it (ADC), and feeding it to a DSP. The benefits of a TOSLINK run from inside your dash to the DSP are minimal — especially with the short distances in a truck. 

The DSP Pro also has a 6-channel parametric input EQ, should you want to use it, further limiting the usefulness of the Fix with the DSP Pro.

Either way you are advised to use one volume at the head unit, and use a remote to change the volume from the DSP, so overall the experience would be similar.

So for me, the JL Fix was an expensive gadget doing a job that the DSP Pro can technically do better. There's just no benefit, and it's more work.

I wired my Subaru Outback's head unit from the front all the way to my DSP Pro in the back. No noise, perfectly clean and clear.

Since both Subaru and Toyotas have been using the same head units recently (made by Fujitsu Ten), I doubt your experience will differ much from mine. 

(None of this is to say the JL Fix isn't nice. it does it's job well. It's just redundant if you have a DSP Pro.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .69077

Pariah Zero said:


> I was thinks my the same thing a couple months ago. After thinking and installing my conclusion: Just use the DSP Pro. The DSP Pro has "better" ADC's - 24 bit, 192 kHz. The Fix has a 48 kHz ADC. In all honesty, the difference is academic, but your choices are:
> 
> • A "lower" grade 24/48 digital signal piped a few feet to your DSP Pro. (Giving the DSP less to work with, but at frequencies only audible to cats & dogs)
> • A clean analog run over a few feet to the DSP Pro, which will then generate & use a 24/96 digital signal.
> 
> Either way, you're taking a high level signal, digitizing it (ADC), and feeding it to a DSP. The benefits of a TOSLINK run from inside your dash to the DSP are minimal — especially with the short distances in a truck.
> 
> The DSP Pro also has a 6-channel parametric input EQ, should you want to use it, further limiting the usefulness of the Fix with the DSP Pro.
> 
> Either way you are advised to use one volume at the head unit, and use a remote to change the volume from the DSP, so overall the experience would be similar.
> 
> So for me, the JL Fix was an expensive gadget doing a job that the DSP Pro can technically do better. There's just no benefit, and it's more work.
> 
> I wired my Subaru Outback's head unit from the front all the way to my DSP Pro in the back. No noise, perfectly clean and clear.
> 
> Since both Subaru and Toyotas have been using the same head units recently (made by Fujitsu Ten), I doubt your experience will differ much from mine.
> 
> (None of this is to say the JL Fix isn't nice. it does it's job well. It's just redundant if you have a DSP Pro.)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the info!

I ended up getting a Kenwood DDX9903s as a source unit (factory unit wont play FLAC) and with the Maestro Adaptor I retain all of my factory items built into my radio (Light settings, door lock timers etc) Plus I can monitor tire pressure.

Getting back to the DSP Pro, you said it has a 6 channel Parametric Input EQ. Meaning I should connect all 6 5 volt preouts to the Pro? I was just going to run 1 set and let it sum the signal.


----------



## BlackHHR

m249saw said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I ended up getting a Kenwood DDX9903s as a source unit (factory unit wont play FLAC) and with the Maestro Adaptor I retain all of my factory items built into my radio (Light settings, door lock timers etc) Plus I can monitor tire pressure.
> 
> Getting back to the DSP Pro, you said it has a 6 channel Parametric Input EQ. Meaning I should connect all 6 5 volt preouts to the Pro? I was just going to run 1 set and let it sum the signal.


The use of the input parametric eq is to correct a signal from a factory head unit that has boosted or cut bands. Stay away from it if you do not have the tools to analyze the signal to verify what needs to be corrected. You have no idea what needs to be corrected if you cannot measure it. 

From you Kenwood, you only need (1) pair of RCA cables into the DSP PRO, you do not want to sum that signal. It needs to be left on one side and right on the other. 
Typically used is the front left and right into the DSP PRO.
You may choose to run (3) pair of rca cables to maintain front/rear fader and sub control from the head unit.
This is to be configured in the I/O matrix as to how you choose to design you system.

Also the DSP Pro has a shelf EQ included with the fine eq and parametric on the lower right hand corner on the main window.

Please follow the link below. It is loaded with great information about the Helix DSP products.

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/DSP%20Magazin/ATF_Sound_Tuning_Magazine-DSP_Special_Vol_2.pdf


----------



## .69077

I started reading all those manuals the other night at the fire station. Made my head hurt, lol.

Thank you for the info BlackHHR


----------



## BlackHHR

m249saw said:


> I started reading all those manuals the other night at the fire station. Made my head hurt, lol.
> 
> Thank you for the info BlackHHR


You are welcome. 

For tech support 
Monday - Friday 8.00 am ~ 5.00 pm EST .
770-888-8200

Ask for Greg (me) or Joey B.


----------



## .69077

Looking forward to using the Pro. Ive had the MS-8 (lolz), Bit10D (meh) and just sold my Mosconi 6to8v8 (UI was confusing).


----------



## MrGreen83

m249saw said:


> Looking forward to using the Pro. Ive had the MS-8 (lolz), Bit10D (meh) and just sold my Mosconi 6to8v8 (UI was confusing).




What was wrong with ur Bit10D?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

MrGreen83 said:


> What was wrong with ur Bit10D?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


its a bit 10.. 'nuf said


----------



## .69077

MrGreen83 said:


> What was wrong with ur Bit10D?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just wasn't a fan, had the Ethernet digi out clunk out twice (since my Voce 5.1k had the Bit In I was dead in the water)


----------



## MrGreen83

Gotcha 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .69077

SkizeR said:


> its a bit 10.. 'nuf said


You like your Director controller Skize?


----------



## SkizeR

m249saw said:


> You like your Director controller Skize?


Haven't touched the car it's in in a while :/ to much time working and getting my daily drivers sound acceptable to where I can work on the 300 and not need to worry about the daily

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## .69077

Well I just ordered the Pro, Director and the MTK1 Mic kit. Looking forward to this journey


----------



## Babs

m249saw said:


> Well I just ordered the Pro, Director and the MTK1 Mic kit. Looking forward to this journey



How much was that MTK mic? 
I'm about to go to Car and do some tuning in the Helix RTA with a $100 UMIK-1. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .69077

Babs said:


> How much was that MTK mic?
> I'm about to go to Car and do some tuning in the Helix RTA with a $100 UMIK-1.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


$350 for the mic kit. I know I could do the Dayton or similar and fiddle with a calibration file but this will work better for me I think.


----------



## Pariah Zero

BlackHHR said:


> The use of the input parametric eq is to correct a signal from a factory head unit that has boosted or cut bands. Stay away from it if you do not have the tools to analyze the signal to verify what needs to be corrected. You have no idea what needs to be corrected if you cannot measure it.



My lack of a proper electrical spectrum analyzer (or even a cheap substitute) lead me to that conclusion as well.

My meat mics care about the output, and that can be easily measured. (I'm doubtful it matters whether the boost is from the input signal or the speaker; you can correct it with the DSP output.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

BlackHHR said:


> The use of the input parametric eq is to correct a signal from a factory head unit that has boosted or cut bands. Stay away from it if you do not have the tools to analyze the signal to verify what needs to be corrected. You have no idea what needs to be corrected if you cannot measure it.


Just curious, for these poor guys that have to work with OEM analog signals for source... Would it be an appropriate means for measuring the OEM freq response for an individual speaker driver by a feedback loop from pink noise or sweep into Room EQ Wizard? Granted of course you do have to make sure that signal is line level appropriate for the loopback input.


----------



## BlackHHR

Babs said:


> Just curious, for these poor guys that have to work with OEM analog signals for source... Would it be an appropriate means for measuring the OEM freq response for an individual speaker driver by a feedback loop from pink noise or sweep into Room EQ Wizard? Granted of course you do have to make sure that signal is line level appropriate for the loopback input.




There is actually a thread on this site that will answer your question and the hand held device to use.
The link to youtube describes how I was taught to discover what is coming out of a factory head unit and or factory amp. 


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...8034-measuring-oem-hu-frequency-response.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sALNr-Bau5c


----------



## .69077

Joining the club after I sold my 6to8v8


----------



## .69077

BlackHHR said:


> The use of the input parametric eq is to correct a signal from a factory head unit that has boosted or cut bands. Stay away from it if you do not have the tools to analyze the signal to verify what needs to be corrected. You have no idea what needs to be corrected if you cannot measure it.
> 
> From you Kenwood, you only need (1) pair of RCA cables into the DSP PRO, you do not want to sum that signal. It needs to be left on one side and right on the other.
> Typically used is the front left and right into the DSP PRO.
> You may choose to run (3) pair of rca cables to maintain front/rear fader and sub control from the head unit.
> This is to be configured in the I/O matrix as to how you choose to design you system.
> 
> Also the DSP Pro has a shelf EQ included with the fine eq and parametric on the lower right hand corner on the main window.
> 
> Please follow the link below. It is loaded with great information about the Helix DSP products.
> 
> http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/DSP%20Magazin/ATF_Sound_Tuning_Magazine-DSP_Special_Vol_2.pdf


I ended up swapping the DSP Pro for the P SIX DSP Mk2 just to simplify my install, this is basically a DSP Pro with a Six channel Class D amp, correct?


----------



## Babs

m249saw said:


> I ended up swapping the DSP Pro for the P SIX DSP Mk2 just to simplify my install, this is basically a DSP Pro with a Six channel Class D amp, correct?


Yep.. No runs of RCA's except from source, should you be so inclined to run analog. All one box, except for a sub amp I suppose. 
How you like it?


----------



## .69077

Babs said:


> Yep.. No runs of RCA's except from source, should you be so inclined to run analog. All one box, except for a sub amp I suppose.
> How you like it?


I'll let you know in a few weeks, I'm at my vacation home that's about an hour away from you,lol

Still waiting on the Helix SPXL1000 for the sub stage. Also contemplating selling the Gladen Zero Pros and doing an Audiofrog setup, heard a 3 way set last week in a similar vehicle and was blown away.


----------



## beemarman

Quick questions.

Hi,

I currently have the Optical input HEC card installed. And previously before upgrading the DSP and Director to the latest version, I was able to use Autosense to switch from internal optical input source Audison DMI and the HEC module.

Example, when I was listening to the Input from the HEC, and I get a phone call, it used to switch input automatically to allow me to answer and talk. Also the Satnav prompts used to interrupt as well.

Also If I wanted to listen to the HEC module, all I needed to do was turn the main source vol to zero in order for the HEC module to kick in,

Since the update, this has stopped working. I now have to manually change source using the director. If I want to hear my phone ring, or hear the satnav prompt I would have to manually switch the source manually on the director.

It doesn’t matter whether “Autosense” is enabled or not in the DSP menu. I just can’t seem to get it to work as before. In the director I have to have “Auto source” enabled in order to be able to manually switch between sources. If I have it disabled, then all I can hear is the main optical source, even when changing source on the diector to the HEC. 

All I want is the ability to enable autosense in the DSP menu, and have it working as before.

Any help please?


----------



## BlackHHR

beemarman said:


> Quick questions.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I currently have the Optical input HEC card installed. And previously before upgrading the DSP and Director to the latest version, I was able to use Autosense to switch from internal optical input source Audison DMI and the HEC module.
> 
> Example, when I was listening to the Input from the HEC, and I get a phone call, it used to switch input automatically to allow me to answer and talk. Also the Satnav prompts used to interrupt as well.
> 
> Also If I wanted to listen to the HEC module, all I needed to do was turn the main source vol to zero in order for the HEC module to kick in,
> 
> Since the update, this has stopped working. I now have to manually change source using the director. If I want to hear my phone ring, or hear the satnav prompt I would have to manually switch the source manually on the director.
> 
> It doesn’t matter whether “Autosense” is enabled or not in the DSP menu. I just can’t seem to get it to work as before. In the director I have to have “Auto source” enabled in order to be able to manually switch between sources. If I have it disabled, then all I can hear is the main optical source, even when changing source on the diector to the HEC.
> 
> All I want is the ability to enable autosense in the DSP menu, and have it working as before.
> 
> Any help please?


Call the shop and Joey can walk you through making this work. It is in what signal takes priority. I think it is in the directors settings. I do not use a director so I am not as familiar with it as he. 

770-888-8200 

Ask for Josiah.


----------



## bertholomey

Question for you all......did a quick search of the thread, didn't see the answer.....but if my search was faulty, and this has been answered - please forgive. 


Is the user able to configure the director's screen to go into 'sleep' mode? By design, is the screen supposed to stay light all the time? I have futzed with the screen options and didn't see a way to change that.....and the dimming didn't see to make much difference so the display isn't as bright.....First World for sure - just curious if I was overlooking something.


----------



## subterFUSE

Yes there is a screen sleep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

bertholomey said:


> Question for you all......did a quick search of the thread, didn't see the answer.....but if my search was faulty, and this has been answered - please forgive.
> 
> 
> Is the user able to configure the director's screen to go into 'sleep' mode? By design, is the screen supposed to stay light all the time? I have futzed with the screen options and didn't see a way to change that.....and the dimming didn't see to make much difference so the display isn't as bright.....First World for sure - just curious if I was overlooking something.


Yes, there is a setting to making the directors screen go into sleep mode. Once you touch the volume or screen, it will wake up. Also it has a dimmer function.

Call Joey at the shop and he can walk you through the menu setting. I do not recall the steps to go to that menu. I think you hold down the setting tab and it will open another menu tab. 

770-888-8200


----------



## dengland

bertholomey said:


> Is the user able to configure the director's screen to go into 'sleep' mode?


Having a bit of trouble myself with that. My 1st night with it was like a torch. Dimming help.


----------



## BlackHHR

dengland said:


> Having a bit of trouble myself with that. My 1st night with it was like a torch. Dimming help.


Yes of course it has that dimming feature. It will also time out and enter "sleep mode".

I will post up something here in a few minutes.


----------



## BlackHHR

Adjusting the display in the director can be located in a "root" menu.

Press and hold the Helix Logo on the screen for (2) Seconds. It will open the "root" menu to access these settings.


----------



## Cheetahman

m249saw said:


> $350 for the mic kit. I know I could do the Dayton or similar and fiddle with a calibration file but this will work better for me I think.


I wish I could justify spending another $350 on the mic kit 
umm6, here I come :worried:


----------



## subterFUSE

Cheetahman said:


> I wish I could justify spending another $350 on the mic kit
> 
> umm6, here I come :worried:




You don't need their mic. You can use any USB mic. You just need to manually edit the calibration file. There are instructions to do it on the website.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MKnopfler

Cheetahman said:


> I wish I could justify spending another $350 on the mic kit
> umm6, here I come :worried:


After spending $8,000 on equipment and almost $5,000 on getting it installed, NOT buying the mic kit for $350 would be a waste. Crutchfield has them and I'll be ordering one soon.


----------



## .69077

That's where I got mine. That's how I looked at it, I spent more on my Audiofrog GB15s than the mic kit


----------



## MKnopfler

m249saw said:


> That's where I got mine. That's how I looked at it, I spent more on my Audiofrog GB15s than the mic kit


Audiofrog GB15s ? As in more than one ? 
I'm running a single GB12 and it's badass, can't imagine what that must sound and feel like. What's your set up ?


----------



## Cheetahman

subterFUSE said:


> You don't need their mic. You can use any USB mic. You just need to manually edit the calibration file. There are instructions to do it on the website.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yup, that's what I was planning. Btw did you tune your 1st place ride yourself?


----------



## subterFUSE

Cheetahman said:


> Yup, that's what I was planning. Btw did you tune your 1st place ride yourself?




I do most of it. My installer always puts the final touch on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .69077

MKnopfler said:


> Audiofrog GB15s ? As in more than one ?
> I'm running a single GB12 and it's badass, can't imagine what that must sound and feel like. What's your set up ?


GB15 as in the 1.5" tweeter


----------



## .69077

MKnopfler said:


> Audiofrog GB15s ? As in more than one ?
> I'm running a single GB12 and it's badass, can't imagine what that must sound and feel like. What's your set up ?


And my setup I'm installing is almost identical to yours. Except GB25s in the dash. Same DSP Pro, same 3 JL HD amps except no rear fill, one 600/4 will be bridged for the GB60s


----------



## MKnopfler

m249saw said:


> And my setup I'm installing is almost identical to yours. Except GB25s in the dash. Same DSP Pro, same 3 JL HD amps except no rear fill, one 600/4 will be bridged for the GB60s


Oh hell yea, you will be so happy once it's up and running. Have you picked up a hirez audio player to use with the Helix yet ? The optical digital in on the Helix allows you to plug in a DAP like my IBasso. I still have the oem head unit hooked up and can use that if I desire. But the sound of hirez audio files through that toslink cable into the Helix is pure and crystal clean.


----------



## MKnopfler

Has anyone been using the new tone controls that you can enable on the director ? 
I like them but have been wondering about the frequency controls, so far I have been hesitant to adjust those without really knowing exactly what they do.


----------



## .69077

MKnopfler said:


> Oh hell yea, you will be so happy once it's up and running. Have you picked up a hirez audio player to use with the Helix yet ? The optical digital in on the Helix allows you to plug in a DAP like my IBasso. I still have the oem head unit hooked up and can use that if I desire. But the sound of hirez audio files through that toslink cable into the Helix is pure and crystal clean.


I have the Kenwood DDX-9903S that does up to 24/192. Ive actually been looking at the Astell and Kerns as well as the Ibasso DX80


----------



## bertholomey

I really enjoy my FiiO X5ii through coax as a digital source.


----------



## .69077

Just fired up my DSP Pro last night for the first time, already feel like my head is spinning lol


----------



## BlackHHR

m249saw said:


> Just fired up my DSP Pro last night for the first time, already feel like my head is spinning lol


Got something for you look at .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFVLAslJKc8&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Victor_inox

m249saw said:


> Just fired up my DSP Pro last night for the first time, already feel like my head is spinning lol


"Pro" stands for Professionals, you too will become one as you proceed.


----------



## .69077

BlackHHR said:


> Got something for you look at .
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFVLAslJKc8&feature=youtu.be


Yeah I called Josiah this morning with a problem I was having with my inputs clipping. He told me he was doing some videos.


----------



## .69077

Victor_inox said:


> "Pro" stands for Professionals, you too will become one as you proceed.


Professional Amateur maybe at the end


----------



## santhosh

MKnopfler said:


> Has anyone been using the new tone controls that you can enable on the director ?
> I like them but have been wondering about the frequency controls, so far I have been hesitant to adjust those without really knowing exactly what they do.


Yes, i have enabled them, they work as shelf filters, a high shelf and a low shelf.
Say you set the frequency bass at 500hz , and increase the gain by 3db.
All frequencies below 500 are boosted by 3db.
For the treble option if you set the frequency to 10,000 Hz and then set the boost to -3db, all frequencies above 10,000hz are cut by 3db.
The shelf filter also cuts off with a specific q factor, i think i have read this value or used it some where in the DSP's software but i have a faint memory.


----------



## naiku

I picked up a Helix DSP a couple days ago, but for some reason it is not recognizing when I have optical connected to it. Before it arrived I used the software to enter all my time alignment values, crossovers etc. figuring I could then save the config and load it to the DSP when the time comes. 

However, when I connect everything up the IO matrix does not show optical. I do get sound out of it though, but am a little concerned that something is not right. 

Also, should the power saving kick in while the key is in the ignition? If I shut the car off and leave the key in the ignition, my tablet remains powered and typically so does the DSP, amps etc. But, the Helix shuts the amps off after the determined time in the power saving setting. 

Is it worth me doing a full reset and starting from scratch? Anyone else run into these issues?


----------



## BlackHHR

naiku said:


> I picked up a Helix DSP a couple days ago, but for some reason it is not recognizing when I have optical connected to it. Before it arrived I used the software to enter all my time alignment values, crossovers etc. figuring I could then save the config and load it to the DSP when the time comes.
> 
> However, when I connect everything up the IO matrix does not show optical. I do get sound out of it though, but am a little concerned that something is not right.
> 
> Also, should the power saving kick in while the key is in the ignition? If I shut the car off and leave the key in the ignition, my tablet remains powered and typically so does the DSP, amps etc. But, the Helix shuts the amps off after the determined time in the power saving setting.
> 
> Is it worth me doing a full reset and starting from scratch? Anyone else run into these issues?


DCM/Extended Features for power saving disable/enable or release per predetermined time. Mine is off. 

IO Matrix does indeed have a digital routing tab. Digital is optical or co axial. You need to select what has priority in the DCM/Signal Management section of the software. 

Tech support 770-888-8200


----------



## naiku

BlackHHR said:


> DCM/Extended Features for power saving disable/enable or release per predetermined time. Mine is off.
> 
> IO Matrix does indeed have a digital routing tab. Digital is optical or co axial. You need to select what has priority in the DCM/Signal Management section of the software.
> 
> Tech support 770-888-8200


I bet I need to set the priority in the DCM/Signal Management section.... does that source selection not show up in demo mode though? Just looking at the software and that piece is not there, priority is, but no choice between optical and coaxial. 

Also, should have been a bit clearer. The IO Matrix digital routing tab is there, it just shows "digital in L" and "digital in R", nothing about optical. Minor thing, but thought I had seen it showing optical on other matrix screenshots. If only work was not in the way, kind of want to get out to the garage and work on this.


----------



## BlackHHR

naiku said:


> I bet I need to set the priority in the DCM/Signal Management section.... does that source selection not show up in demo mode though? Just looking at the software and that piece is not there, priority is, but no choice between optical and coaxial.
> 
> Also, should have been a bit clearer. The IO Matrix digital routing tab is there, it just shows "digital in L" and "digital in R", nothing about optical. Minor thing, but thought I had seen it showing optical on other matrix screenshots. If only work was not in the way, kind of want to get out to the garage and work on this.


Factory default should be Digital has priority. If not, please select it for your digital signal to have priority over analog.
Now into digital input. Optical output from your device is only 2 channel, left and right. That is the reason options for channel selection is digital left and digital right inputs only.
From the digital inputs left and right, you configure the analog output side of the device as you need for your application.Example would be Front , Rear , Sub.


----------



## santhosh

just a quick question, is any one using the DSP PC Tool Version 4 with the Helix DSP Pro?
I see support has been added for the Helix DSP Pro now, earlier it was only for the Helix DSP Pro 2 right.
Can any one confirm using it with DSP Pro and no loss of functionality with the Director?
I do also see an update for the Director 1.60 .


----------



## dengland

santhosh said:


> just a quick question, is any one using the DSP PC Tool Version 4 with the Helix DSP Pro?
> I see support has been added for the Helix DSP Pro now, earlier it was only for the Helix DSP Pro 2 right.
> Can any one confirm using it with DSP Pro and no loss of functionality with the Director?
> I do also see an update for the Director 1.60 .


I am using 4.06a with the original PRO. v.1.60 Director is needed 1st (posted on the 5th) if you have one of those. I tried the 4.05a before the Director update was posted (since there was no comment about PC Tool Version 4 not working with 1.51 at the time).

I have not seen any loss of functionality.


----------



## santhosh

Guys just need another little information from those using the Helix DSP Pro.
I have two sources connected to the DSP Pro,
1. Pioneer double din head unit - Wired to channels G&H
2. Raspberry Pi3 with optical out to the DSP Pro

I have set Aux source as priority .
What happens is when i play music using my digital source and boost the volume in the director, say keep at +5 db in director, the speakers start to cut, they play for a second take a break , then start playing back again, kind of it plays stuttered and the signal gets cut , then on , then cut then on again.

The problem is when ever i set digital source as priority over the Aux inputs, i do not face this stuttering.
Can any one shed some info if they have faced the same issue too?

It is strange i do not face this problem when i set Digital source as priority , it only happens when i set Aux source as priority. I face this issue even there is no music from my aux source say i have turned off my head unit, the music plays through raspberry pi , and i have set aux source as priority(happens at high volume in director) move closer to 0 db and you can then the stuttering happens, now the music gets cut for a second resumes, gets cut again kind of clipping. But when ever i use the digital source as priority i do not face this issue at all. When you stay in moderate volume, say -15 db in the director, this issue does not happen, the stuttering comes when you are boosting the digital signal with aux set as priority.

Any inputs and suggestions are welcome, if some one can try this out and let me know i will be grateful for their help.


----------



## BlackHHR

santhosh said:


> Guys just need another little information from those using the Helix DSP Pro.
> I have two sources connected to the DSP Pro,
> 1. Pioneer double din head unit - Wired to channels G&H
> 2. Raspberry Pi3 with optical out to the DSP Pro
> 
> I have set Aux source as priority .
> What happens is when i play music using my digital source and boost the volume in the director, say keep at +5 db in director, the speakers start to cut, they play for a second take a break , then start playing back again, kind of it plays stuttered and the signal gets cut , then on , then cut then on again.
> 
> The problem is when ever i set digital source as priority over the Aux inputs, i do not face this stuttering.
> Can any one shed some info if they have faced the same issue too?
> 
> It is strange i do not face this problem when i set Digital source as priority , it only happens when i set Aux source as priority. I face this issue even there is no music from my aux source say i have turned off my head unit, the music plays through raspberry pi , and i have set aux source as priority(happens at high volume in director) move closer to 0 db and you can then the stuttering happens, now the music gets cut for a second resumes, gets cut again kind of clipping. But when ever i use the digital source as priority i do not face this issue at all. When you stay in moderate volume, say -15 db in the director, this issue does not happen, the stuttering comes when you are boosting the digital signal with aux set as priority.
> 
> Any inputs and suggestions are welcome, if some one can try this out and let me know i will be grateful for their help.



The digital source has priority over the analog signal. That should be configured as default from the factory settings. 
If you turn off your digital source, it will auto revert to the analog. 

You basically answered you very own question as to the solution to fix the problem. 
Configure the matrix to have digital priority over analog and you will be golden. 

A good example would be DRZ9255/DSP PRO. We configured the processor digital has priority over analog. We have RCA and optical ran into the processor. When switching from FM (analog) to CD (digital) the processor will recognize the signals automatically. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## MKnopfler

Give digital priority. There is also a sliding scale as to how much signal you need before it switches over, you could turn that up. I run an Ibasso into the optical and only turn on the head unit when I want to use it. I've never had that issue.


----------



## santhosh

BlackHHR said:


> The digital source has priority over the analog signal. That should be configured as default from the factory settings.
> If you turn off your digital source, it will auto revert to the analog.
> 
> You basically answered you very own question as to the solution to fix the problem.
> Configure the matrix to have digital priority over analog and you will be golden.
> 
> A good example would be DRZ9255/DSP PRO. We configured the processor digital has priority over analog. We have RCA and optical ran into the processor. When switching from FM (analog) to CD (digital) the processor will recognize the signals automatically.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thanks for your reply.
Probably i should have been bit more detailed in my previous post.

The problem is when i set digital source as priority over analog , my head unit will not switch over to analog signal when even i get phone calls in my pioneer double din connected to my mobile using Bluetooth.

I have two separate sources( RPI3-Digital, Pioneer Double Din- AUX) connected to the DSP, unlike the DRZ9255 which is one source connected to the DSP.

I need aux as priority , say i am playing music through my digital source through the raspberry pi 3 , with the Hifiberry Digi + board. When i get calls in my pioneer double din head unit i want the DSP to switch to my head unit , attend the call, and once the call gets over, the aux signal will be zero and since the digital source is playing it will switch over to the digital source. This can be done by setting aux as priority over digital. Both sources are to turn on automatically over signal detection, there is check box for this setting in DCM -Signal Management menu. 

My problem is not with the priority settings or configuration. Every thing works fine as i expected it to be.

The problem is when i play music in my digital source alone , with check box 'aux' as priority checked the music starts to stutter at high volume levels in the director.
At moderate volume the stuttering is not there.
Whereas the stuttering goes off with Digital source set to priority over aux.

My question is why is the stuttering dependent or based on volume, and why does that happen only when 'AUX has priority' is marked. Ideally this should not be case.
Also note the stuttering of digital signal happens at high volume even when i have my pioneer head unit turned off, this should not be the case.


----------



## BlackHHR

santhosh said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> Probably i should have been bit more detailed in my previous post.
> 
> The problem is when i set digital source as priority over analog , my head unit will not switch over to analog signal when even i get phone calls in my pioneer double din connected to my mobile using Bluetooth.
> 
> I have two separate sources( RPI3-Digital, Pioneer Double Din- AUX) connected to the DSP, unlike the DRZ9255 which is one source connected to the DSP.
> 
> I need aux as priority , say i am playing music through my digital source through the raspberry pi 3 , with the Hifiberry Digi + board. When i get calls in my pioneer double din head unit i want the DSP to switch to my head unit , attend the call, and once the call gets over, the aux signal will be zero and since the digital source is playing it will switch over to the digital source. This can be done by setting aux as priority over digital. Both sources are to turn on automatically over signal detection, there is check box for this setting in DCM -Signal Management menu.
> 
> My problem is not with the priority settings or configuration. Every thing works fine as i expected it to be.
> 
> The problem is when i play music in my digital source alone , with check box 'aux' as priority checked the music starts to stutter at high volume levels in the director.
> At moderate volume the stuttering is not there.
> Whereas the stuttering goes off with Digital source set to priority over aux.
> 
> My question is why is the stuttering dependent or based on volume, and why does that happen only when 'AUX has priority' is marked. Ideally this should not be case.
> Also note the stuttering of digital signal happens at high volume even when i have my pioneer head unit turned off, this should not be the case.


email [email protected] "dot" com.

Joey can help you with this issue.


----------



## dengland

One thing I really miss from the MS-8 is the "Output Diagnostic." It would send Pink Noise directly from the DSP - No cross overs, no EQ. I wish the Helix Pro had that built in.

Maybe not so useful for most folks, but I feel like have a difficult situation with the Alpine HU/Amps and acoustics in the Ram Crew cab. Lots of variables with 7 inputs and 5 (or 7 if I include the rears) channels of amplification.


----------



## bertholomey

I posted this over on my Head-Fi forum regarding the FiiO X5ii digital player, but I thought I would cross post it here. 

I wanted to ask the group a question....and if this has been answered previously, and I just need to do a better search.....please let me know. 

Is there a filter engaged within the X5ii that attenuates the highs around 11KHz? 

1) The EQ is off
2) The 'Digital Filter' is set on 'Slow Down' and not 'Steep Drop'

I use the FiiO X5 with my CIEMs, and I use it as a source for my car system. I connect the FiiO via coax directly to my processor - fantastic use for this piece.....capability of 400GB of music (even higher if you have the 256's), ability to play hi-res music through my car system, and a great GUI and buttons. 

I was tuning the car system and had put a track of pink noise on the FiiO......it was the exact same file that I have on CD. I noticed the last few days of tuning that there was a 'cliff wall' drop in response at 11KHz. Today, on a hunch, I put back in the CD and measured the response - sure enough, there was a huge difference. From the CD - the same track - gives a decent output to 17.3KHz and a slow roll-off to 20KHz. 

So - there isn't anything that I can see that is contributing to this in the processor software, and as far as I can tell - the only 2 settings in the FiiO that I can see shouldn't cause this drop off - anyone have any ideas? 

I am not utilizing the input EQ in the Helix Tool

Crossovers and Time Alignment only - no EQ set. Red is FiiO through digital input to processor - same pink noise track as the blue line out of the CD transport.


----------



## bertholomey




----------



## bbfoto

Jason, unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the FiiO DAPs. But did you also try the "Steep Drop" setting in the Digital Filter settings? Perhaps it is a glitch in the FiiO firmware and the two settings are actually reversed? Unlikely, but?

Also, is the Pink Noise track that you are using on the FiiO a WAV rip from the CD you sourced it from? Or is the track on the FiiO a _Conversion_ of the CD or WAV to FLAC, AAC, or MP3???...

The reason I ask is that *some* file format conversion software have settings (sometimes defaut settings) for compressed file formats such as MP3, AAC, FLAC, etc, that have fixed or adjustable HPF & LPF to roll off the very low and very high frequencies in order to further reduce the file size (even if it is set to rip/convert at "High Quality" 320kbps CBR). Again, unlikely, but it's the only thing I could think of.

I would suggest only using full, native Res, 16-bit/44.1kHz uncompressed WAV files for any test tones that you use. Good luck and let us know if you come up with a solution.


----------



## bertholomey

bbfoto said:


> Jason, unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the FiiO DAPs. But did you also try the "Steep Drop" setting in the Digital Filter settings? Perhaps it is a glitch in the FiiO firmware and the two settings are actually reversed? Unlikely, but?
> 
> Also, is the Pink Noise track that you are using on the FiiO a WAV rip from the CD you sourced it from? Or is it a _Conversion_ of the CD or WAV to FLAC or MP3???...
> 
> The reason I ask is that *some* file format conversion software have settings (sometimes defaut settings) for compressed file file formats such as MP3, AAC, FLAC, etc, that have fixed or adjustable HPF & LPF to roll off the very low and very high frequencies in order to further reduce the file size (even if it is set to rip/convert "High Quality" 320kbps CBR). Again, unlikely, but it's the only thing I could think of.
> 
> Good luck and let us know if you come up with a solution.



This is exactly why I posted this here! Thank you! This is the kind of thinking I was looking for. 

The filter is a recent firmware add, so a good chance that it might be reversed - I will try that and measure it. 

The file on the FiiO was downconverted using XLD into MPEG-4 AAC, so you are exactly right - it is different than what is on the burned disc (I'll have to see if I can find a correlated pink noise track that is at least WAV or Flac). I will measure again with the FiiO once I get a 'full rez' track on it


----------



## bbfoto

bertholomey said:


> This is exactly why I posted this here! Thank you! This is the kind of thinking I was looking for.
> 
> The filter is a recent firmware add, so a good chance that it might be reversed - I will try that and measure it.
> 
> The file on the FiiO was downconverted using XLD into MPEG-4 AAC, so you are exactly right - it is different than what is on the burned disc (I'll have to see if I can find a correlated pink noise track that is at least WAV or Flac). I will measure again with the FiiO once I get a 'full rez' track on it


Cool. Download a free copy of Audacity and create your own test tones. I use it all the time to make custom test tones and click tracks. It is available for both Mac OSX and Windows.

http://www.audacityteam.org/ 

There are also some very useful Audacity add-on Plug-Ins on the download page.


----------



## bertholomey

Hmmm - I've used Audacity for years to make tracks shorter when making my demo discs, but I didn't know you can create test tones (and pink noise?) with it. I'll have to check out some of the other features


----------



## bbfoto

Just go to the "Generate" menu at the top, then choose "Noise". You'll figure it out from there.


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## dengland

I don't think I am seeing the same thing.

Measurements were taken using the REW RTA function. Pink noise was played from the Fiio X3. Pink Noise file is 192Kbs -3dBFS WAV file from audiocheck.net.

High Quality Pink Noise | wav mp3 Audio Files Download

I am seeing the following:



Looks to be about -10dB/octave


----------



## Babs

Also REW itself has a very good PN generator which I use. It's synced in FFT length to the RTA function also. However for this purpose of comparison of sources that wouldn't be applicable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bertholomey

bbfoto said:


> Just go to the "Generate" menu at the top, then choose "Noise". You'll figure it out from there.




Thanks! That worked perfectly! But.....I'm about to head for the airport, so no measurements until Saturday


----------



## oliverlim

Does V3.40a save the input/output configurations. I am running into some strange behaviour on my pp82dsp. 

Everytime i load a apfx file into my dsp, the i/o section seems to be all jumbled up. inputs are wrongly named. So after changing it, and then saving the file and uploading to the dsp, I would assume the i/o would be saved. But if i do a load of that saved file, I see the i/o is all messed up again.

Which brings me to my main issue. My installer tune my system using 2.93 and I just cant seem to get it transfered correctly to 3.40a. Even loading his file with my 2.93, I seems to get strange things like maybe some crossover may not be loading right or the i/o set by him may not be uploaded properly. 

I am wondering if v2.93 and 3.40a cannot be on the same system or it would get confused. I do get the "need to upgrade firmware" message from each version.

Any suggestions on what could be happening?


----------



## subterFUSE

Can you post the installer tune file? I can load it on my computer and convert it to a newer version for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackHHR

oliverlim said:


> Does V3.40a save the input/output configurations. I am running into some strange behaviour on my pp82dsp.
> 
> Everytime i load a apfx file into my dsp, the i/o section seems to be all jumbled up. inputs are wrongly named. So after changing it, and then saving the file and uploading to the dsp, I would assume the i/o would be saved. But if i do a load of that saved file, I see the i/o is all messed up again.
> 
> Which brings me to my main issue. My installer tune my system using 2.93 and I just cant seem to get it transfered correctly to 3.40a. Even loading his file with my 2.93, I seems to get strange things like maybe some crossover may not be loading right or the i/o set by him may not be uploaded properly.
> 
> I am wondering if v2.93 and 3.40a cannot be on the same system or it would get confused. I do get the "need to upgrade firmware" message from each version.
> 
> Any suggestions on what could be happening?


 When I transferred my file from 3.40A to the new DSP PRO MKII (V4 software), my I/O matrix was not 100% accurate. I had to make a few adjustments to channel assignment.


----------



## oliverlim

subterFUSE said:


> Can you post the installer tune file? I can load it on my computer and convert it to a newer version for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Attached it here as a pdf. I do not understand the 2.93 i/o section at all. and it is strange that there is two Front L full in the Rear L full section (a mistake?). My car is a F20 bmw RHD which outputs 4 channels Front LR and Rear LR. 

When I checked via V3.40a, AB are the mids, CD are the rear, EF are the Tweeter and GH are the seats woofers. The ABEFGH are the front stage as a 3 way active. 

I only have the rear as i rely on it for my parking distance tones. I cant have it any softer but may want to make it delayed more so that it does not pull the stage back.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## brett.b10

Hi guys

I updated my dsp pro to the latest firmware today, also updated my director to version 1.50 , now my director will only run in demo mode any ideas


----------



## haakono

No idea really, but try installing v1.51 to see if that helps?


----------



## brett.b10

Sorry it was 1.51


----------



## BlackHHR

brett.b10 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I updated my dsp pro to the latest firmware today, also updated my director to version 1.50 , now my director will only run in demo mode any ideas


Did you uninstall the driver pac and reinstall the new driver pac for your updated software?


----------



## brett.b10

Not quite sure what you mean ,


----------



## BlackHHR

brett.b10 said:


> Not quite sure what you mean ,


 The driver pac is SAM-BA V2.14.

Did you delete the old driver suite and restart your computer when prompted?


----------



## brett.b10

If that is for the director, I didnt get any message, I did the dsp update and that works with the pc , when I go into the software It says the director is connected 
but the director is showing in demo mode if you power up the director on its own on the update installer I get your software is up to date when I turn the whole system on I get the small box with update director which fails to do anything pulling my hair out currently


----------



## bertholomey

bertholomey said:


> This is exactly why I posted this here! Thank you! This is the kind of thinking I was looking for.
> 
> The filter is a recent firmware add, so a good chance that it might be reversed - I will try that and measure it.
> 
> The file on the FiiO was downconverted using XLD into MPEG-4 AAC, so you are exactly right - it is different than what is on the burned disc (I'll have to see if I can find a correlated pink noise track that is at least WAV or Flac). I will measure again with the FiiO once I get a 'full rez' track on it


So a quick follow up on this.....I did play the pink noise on the disc, the MPEG-4 AAC track from the FiiO, and the pink noise generated from Audacity in AIFF loaded on the FiiO. The disc track and the AIFF track on the FiiO were nearly identical, and the MPEG-4 AAC pink noise was drastically cut at 11KHz. 

Which of course makes me think that there is a VERY GOOD possibility that all of the music that I have loaded on the FiiO in MPEG-4 AAC is severely cut at the top. I'll need to assess what format I want to use....but not sure if I want to delete and re-convert all of the music on the cards. Maybe Apple Lossless....compromise between MPEG-4 AAC and AIFF in terms of size and full er frequency response.


----------



## bertholomey




----------



## BlackHHR

For those that are updating the software from 3.40* to the new 4.06* with a director, we have pinned down the correct steps to make this an easy transition.

(1) Download the director software 1.60* ( delete old drivers when prompted)
(2) Download the processor software 4.06*
(3) Unplug the 8 pin director cable from the processor
(4) Update processor FRIST and save/load file via the usb at the processor
(5) Shut down system
(6) Plug director cable back into processor 
(7) Power system back up
(8) Connect at the director with laptop and connect.
(9) Load/save file to processor
(10) Check the I/O Martix for channel assignment. 

My personal experience was the I/O Matrix did NOT transfer correctly from the file we had configured for the DSP PRO MKI to the DSP PRO MKII. Same holds true for the DSP PRO MKI when upgrading to the 4.06* software. 
The above is being researched and will be corrected on the back end. 
Everything else transferred correctly from the old software to the new software in the new DSP PRO MKII and the DSP PRO MKI
If you guys have any questions please call us .

770-888-8200

Greg


----------



## MXCRAZY123

Jeez. Reading all of this makes me never want to attempt running a dsp 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

MXCRAZY123 said:


> Jeez. Reading all of this makes me never want to attempt running a dsp
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


intimidating,isn`t it?


----------



## Babs

MXCRAZY123 said:


> Jeez. Reading all of this makes me never want to attempt running a dsp
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


SQ tuning has become an entire hobby of itself within car audio. Where you really get yer geek on. 

But these little software goodies you don't deal with so much with just the DSP.. Appears the Director in the case of Audiotec-Fischer, puts a level of complexity into the updates. She'll run certainly without a Director if on head unit volume control or the simple Helix URC remote.


----------



## MXCRAZY123

Yeah I figured it couldnt really be that bad lol. I think Im gonna run a passive system for a while off a 4200nex. That apple car play calls to me!

And then wind up buying a dsp later. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brett.b10

A big thank you to Greg and Josiah at the Audio tech fischer distribution in the
US followed the instructions posted above everything works just need to refine some of the new setting, again a big thanks from the UK



brett


----------



## lizardking

What are the changes in the 4.07 software?


----------



## BlackHHR

lizardking said:


> What are the changes in the 4.07 software?


I do not see a V4.07 on the download section. 

Version	Description
*4.06a*
HELIX P SIX DSP MK2 - fixed an issue in the Dynamic Headroom Management and Analog Input Delay
HELIX V EIGHT DSP - fixed an issue in the Analog Input Delay
HELIX DSP PRO - fixed an issue in the Analog Input Delay

*4.05a*
HELIX DSP PRO MK2 has been implemented
Added support for the following devices: HELIX DSP PRO, P SIX DSP MK2, V EIGHT DSP
Bypass Button (beside EQ) deactivates only the EQ and has no effect on time alignment any more
DCM – Turn On and Off Delay have been added for HELIX DSP.2 and DSP PRO MK2
Graph window has been optimized due to the scalability
HELIX DSP PRO MK2 – Asahi Kasei Microdevices Sound Filter Options of the DA converter are now adjustable
Several minor improvements of the usability and scalability

Please note: The support of further products will be added gradually. Each device has to be implemented and tested separately. As soon as all 64 Bit DSP devices have been implemented we will start to integrate the 56 Bit DSP platform as well.

*4.01a*
Completely new developed DSP PC-Tool with a huge feature upgrade.


----------



## forty5cal1911

BlackHHR: If you download from the site the file is labeled 4.07a and appears to have been released on 12/28/16
I have downloaded it but haven't applied it yet to my DSP.2 since I didn't see any info in the release notes.

Any ideas on fixes / enhancements?


----------



## BlackHHR

forty5cal1911 said:


> BlackHHR: If you download from the site the file is labeled 4.07a and appears to have been released on 12/28/16
> I have downloaded it but haven't applied it yet to my DSP.2 since I didn't see any info in the release notes.
> 
> Any ideas on fixes / enhancements?


I will have to ask the software engineer what was added or modified. It is a 24 hour delay in getting emails answered due to the time/date differences between countries. 

Greg


----------



## forty5cal1911

BlackHHR said:


> I will have to ask the software engineer what was added or modified. It is a 24 hour delay in getting emails answered due to the time/date differences between countries.
> 
> Greg


That would be awesome Greg. Thanks!
Phil


----------



## oliverlim

Can I check if the the helix inputs can simultaneously at the same time?

Eg. RCA input to Front 3 way active, while the high level inputs to rear speakers?

I actually have a pp82dsp and the manual seems to indicate that all inputs are seperate and you have to switch between them


----------



## ErinH

oliverlim said:


> Can I check if the the helix inputs can simultaneously at the same time?
> 
> Eg. RCA input to Front 3 way active, while the high level inputs to rear speakers?
> 
> I actually have a pp82dsp and the manual seems to indicate that all inputs are seperate and you have to switch between them


This is from the Helix DSP Pro manual:


> *Important:* It is strictly forbidden to use the highlevel input and pre-amplifier inputs at the same time. This may cause severe damage to the pre-amplifier outputs of your car radio.


----------



## oliverlim

ErinH said:


> This is from the Helix DSP Pro manual:


I saw this when I search this thread. I was thinking more along the lines of taking the high level output on the harness without connecting it back to the dsp high level inputs. This signal then goes to the apl1 and back into the aux input.


----------



## Babs

Just curious if any of you guys running V4 have messed with the RTA. Adjustable resolution now it appears. 1/3 - 1/24 octave. 










Don't have a V4-capable DSP to try myself yet (keyword). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## BlackHHR

Babs said:


> Just curious if any of you guys running V4 have messed with the RTA. Adjustable resolution now it appears. 1/3 - 1/24 octave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't have a V4-capable DSP to try myself yet (keyword).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes it does !!


----------



## Babs

BlackHHR said:


> Yes it does !!



Can't wait to try it. That could certainly make the need for RoomEQWizard use unnecessary. Though REW allows saving graphs for overlaying drivers to compare left/right for example. However, having the better RTA averaging resolution would definitely improve the use of the Helix tool for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## subterFUSE

An RTA does not provide any timing or phase information, however. A dual FFT measurement software is always going to have that advantage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> An RTA does not provide any timing or phase information, however. A dual FFT measurement software is always going to have that advantage.


In deed. Agreed.. For a quick response check, having better than 1/3 octave though is a very nice touch. 


Here's a question, I think I know but more interested if you've done it:

Is there anything that wouldn't be kosher by using a spare DSP output for reference loop-back into the audio interface? Looks like I'll have a couple spare output channels soon that could be allocated for that.


----------



## subterFUSE

Babs said:


> Here's a question, I think I know but more interested if you've done it:
> 
> Is there anything that wouldn't be kosher by using a spare DSP output for reference loop-back into the audio interface? Looks like I'll have a couple spare output channels soon that could be allocated for that.



Yes, you can do that. Just be careful that you are not applying any delay or EQ or crossover to the reference signal, because those will throw off the measured response.

You also have to hope that the frequency response out of the DSP is truly flat. I think in most cases it will be, but if the response out of that DSP channel is colored at all it is going to throw off your measurement.

That said, there is not any real benefit to running your reference through your DSP when you are using REW. The only thing it will accomplish is to reduce the latency of the measurement. But that's not really a benefit because the latency of the measurement does not really mess up anything. You just have to shift the IR to zero by a larger number when the ref bypasses the DSP.

Now, if you have Smaart or SysTune, it's a different story. There is a super cool thing you can do by running your reference through the DSP. You can take a raw measurement of a speaker and capture that trace. Then, you run the electrical output of the DSP into the interface and invert that in the software. When you do this, an EQ cut will show up on screen as a boost. Now you can run a live transfer function of your DSP output and then apply the EQ filters and draw your EQ over the raw response of the speaker. This is a super easy and intuitive way to flatten a speaker response with using a minimal number of parametric filters. You just adjust the filter setting in the DSP and watch in real time as the filter draws itself on screen, and just make the filter setting overlap the speaker measurement.

I'm actually in my Smaart training class as I type this and we are doing his right now. Super cool and so fast and easy.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Babs

subterFUSE said:


> Yes, you can do that. Just be careful that you are not applying any delay or EQ or crossover to the reference signal, because those will throw off the measured response.
> 
> You also have to hope that the frequency response out of the DSP is truly flat. I think in most cases it will be, but if the response out of that DSP channel is colored at all it is going to throw off your measurement.
> 
> That said, there is not any real benefit to running your reference through your DSP when you are using REW. The only thing it will accomplish is to reduce the latency of the measurement. But that's not really a benefit because the latency of the measurement does not really mess up anything. You just have to shift the IR to zero by a larger number when the ref bypasses the DSP.
> 
> Now, if you have Smaart or SysTune, it's a different story. There is a super cool thing you can do by running your reference through the DSP. You can take a raw measurement of a speaker and capture that trace. Then, you run the electrical output of the DSP into the interface and invert that in the software. When you do this, an EQ cut will show up on screen as a boost. Now you can run a live transfer function of your DSP output and then apply the EQ filters and draw your EQ over the raw response of the speaker. This is a super easy and intuitive way to flatten a speaker response with using a minimal number of parametric filters. You just adjust the filter setting in the DSP and watch in real time as the filter draws itself on screen, and just make the filter setting overlap the speaker measurement.
> 
> I'm actually in my Smaart training class as I type this and we are doing his right now. Super cool and so fast and easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




That's awesome! Definitely much to learn here. Yeah Smaart7 on the laptop I need to make a cable for the reference line. Literally the only thing holding back from diving in. The old mobilepre I dunno how good it'll do. That and I sold the old DSP so I've got to get the Pro-2. Not afraid to pick up a more up to date Mic pre interface. Single ECM8000 now. No arrays just yet. Maybe talk you into a Smaart primer at NCSQ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## oliverlim

I noticed that Helix does not seem to have any de-equalisation input feature on their DSP. Some like JL Audio and Audison has them on even basic dsp models. Is there any reason for or against it?

My car has a hu that does some eq on the signal to compensate for the lack of tweeters. Namely boosted highs and bass. Assuming all else being the same, I use a audison auto de-eq input, EQ on the outputs to get a set curve, compared to a Helix with EQ on the outputs to get the same set curve, will they sound the same? Is there any advantages to audison/jl having automatic de-eq on the input signal? I am assuming if there are no advantages, JL/Audison would not provide such a feature?


----------



## subterFUSE

Helix has a 5 band parametric EQ on the inputs, along with time alignment. This is far superior to what Audison has on the Bit One.

The Audison de-equalization is a complete joke, actually. I have the photos to prove it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oliverlim

subterFUSE said:


> Helix has a 5 band parametric EQ on the inputs, along with time alignment. This is far superior to what Audison has on the Bit One.
> 
> The Audison de-equalization is a complete joke, actually. I have the photos to prove it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats good to know. 5 band Parametric Eq is defintely not sufficient for the crazy signal I am getting from my hu. I assume i should just leave input eq alone and concentrate on the output eq? In what cases should we make use of the input eq?


----------



## subterFUSE

Then you don't know the power of parametric EQ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oliverlim

subterFUSE said:


> Then you don't know the power of parametric EQ.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Should I eq the input signal as best I can. Or just use the output eq? It seems like I could do it with both input plus output or just output. Just trying to understand if there is a "right" way.

Thanks for your replies.


----------



## dengland

oliverlim said:


> Should I eq the input signal as best I can. Or just use the output eq? It seems like I could do it with both input plus output or just output. Just trying to understand if there is a "right" way.
> 
> Thanks for your replies.


You are not alone in this question. My input signal is heavily EQed. This is what I measured with factory speakers/amps back in 2014 when I started my quest in my 2014 RAM. 



Early on with the Helix Pro I tried modify the incoming signal with the 5 band parametric controls, but my skills are suspect. Since then I have only dealt with the output modification (still with suspect skills).

I am interested in where this goes.


----------



## subterFUSE

oliverlim said:


> Should I eq the input signal as best I can. Or just use the output eq? It seems like I could do it with both input plus output or just output. Just trying to understand if there is a "right" way.
> 
> Thanks for your replies.


You can use input EQ or output EQ. Personally, I would use the Input EQ for the corrections. You might also need input time alignment if your factory signal is time aligned.

You can easily measure the EQ filters you need and the time alignment you need if you have software like REW.

I will post suggestions how to do this below in another reply.


----------



## subterFUSE

dengland said:


> You are not alone in this question. My input signal is heavily EQed. This is what I measured with factory speakers/amps back in 2014 when I started my quest in my 2014 RAM.
> 
> 
> 
> Early on with the Helix Pro I tried modify the incoming signal with the 5 band parametric controls, but my skills are suspect. Since then I have only dealt with the output modification (still with suspect skills).
> 
> I am interested in where this goes.



This is how I would set up a factory source with a Helix Pro or Pro 2 DSP, and REW as my measurement software:


Step 1: Wire up your factory high level outputs into the DSP like normal.

Step 2: In the Input Matrix Main tab, route 1 input to 1 output only. Do not mix any inputs yet. Just drag out 1 of each input onto a single, separate output for each.

Step 3: Get REW started. Do not take out your microphone yet. You are not taking any acoustic measurements. We will be measuring the electrical output from the DSP.

You will need to have a loopback cable for reference, and we will use a single RCA cable from a DSP output going into the sound card for the measurement signal.

Hopefully your factory system has an AUX input of some kind. My car has RCA jacks, so that's where I can feed the audio output from my computer sound card so that I can play the REW test sweeps.


Step 4: Once you have REW connected and ready, it's time to take a measurement. Make sure your DSP processing is all turned off. No delay. No crossovers applied. No EQ applied.

Take a measurement sweep of 1 DSP output channel. Mute all other DSP channels and run a measurement sweep. After REW captures the sweep, be sure to label which input you just measured so you can keep organized.

Now mute that channel and unmute a different channel on the DSP. Take another measurement. Label it.

Repeat this process for each of the DSP channels.


Step 5: Analysis. The measurements you just took is going to tell us 3 things. First, it will show us the electrical frequency response of the signal. The second thing we are interested in is the impulse response for timing. And the third piece of information is the polarity of the signal coming from the factory outputs.

Let's start with the timing. Click on Overlays at the top of the screen, and then look at Impulse. Be sure to be on %FS view.
You should see all of your impulse response images overlaid each other.
At this point, I would use the check boxes at the bottom to "hide" most of the impulses so we can see better.

You will want to find the channel that has the latest impulse response of the group. That means the channel that has the impulse response that begins the furthest to the right of your chart. Since these are electrical measurements, not acoustic, your impulse response will be very nicely defined and easy to read.

If you have any impulses that are further to the right than the others, then we know your factory system is using delay. You can use the input delay feature to add delay to the early-arriving impulses to line them up with the latest impulse.

You can tell the polarity of the channel by looking at the impulse. If the first peak moves up, then it's positive polarity. If the first peak moves down, it's inverted. If you have any inverted channels coming from the factory system, you have 2 choices to fix it. Either flip the wires at the input on the DSP, or you can invert the polarity of that input on the I/O Matrix in the DSP software.


Step 6: The last step is looking at the frequency response. Use the SPL view for this.

Because we are measuring the electrical output of the DSP, an ideal frequency response should be a perfectly flat, horizontal line. Here is an example from my car which has a mObridge DA1 digital preamp.











A factory audio system is very unlikely to look like that, however. Most factory systems have corrective EQ applied to the signal.

So how can we fix this?

Personally, I would use the Auto EQ feature of REW to do the job for me.
Click the EQ button at the top.
Click the EQ Filters button.
You will have up to 20 EQ filters in the EQ section. You can limit the number of filters used to any number you like. Lets limit it to 5 filters, since that's what we have available on the input EQ for Helix. Uncheck boxes 6 thru 20.
Go to Target Settings.

Speaker Type = None
LF Rise Slope = 0.0
HF Fall Slope = 0.0
Indiv. Max Boost = 3 dB
Overall Max Boost = 3 dB
Flatness Target = 1 dB

Now hit "Match Response to Target"

Your correction filters will generate automatically. Click on EQ Filters button to open the filters, if you don't still have them open. Copy the frequency, gain and Q for each filter and put them into your DSP.

Don't get carried away thinking you can make your signal perfectly flat. You can't. Just get the signal leveled out as best you can, and move on. You're going to have to EQ the speaker anyway, so worrying about the input signal too much is a waste of time.

And I promise you that the auto EQ correction feature in the Audison Bit One is not doing anything CLOSE to a perfect job of leveling the signal. It does almost nothing. A manual parametric EQ like Helix has is light years beyond what Audison does.


----------



## dengland

subterFUSE said:


> This is how I would set up a factory source with a Helix Pro or Pro 2 DSP, and REW as my measurement software:
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> Step 3: Get REW started. Do not take out your microphone yet. You are not taking any acoustic measurements. *We will be measuring the electrical output from the DSP.
> *
> You will need to have a loopback cable for reference, and we will use a single RCA cable from a DSP output going into the sound card for the measurement signal.
> 
> Hopefully your factory system has an AUX input of some kind.
> <SNIP>


Thanks for this detailed write up. I have long wanted to take an electrical measurement of the signals. I was worried about how not to ground the source signal. Never thought of using the DSP as "buffer" to protect the source.

Looks like a great weekend project. I DO have an AUX in on the factory HU. Need to figure out if the soundcard in the laptop is up to the loopback.

Thanks again for taking the time. This is very interesting.


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## subterFUSE

You need a sound card with at least 2 inputs to do loop back. I have always used an ASIO sound card. Running a Tascam 1608 currently but that's overkill for most people. I don't use REW anymore. Using SysTune and Smaart because they are more powerful and faster than REW, but you can still do this process in REW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pariah Zero

BlackHHR said:


> For those that are updating the software from 3.40* to the new 4.06* with a director, we have pinned down the correct steps to make this an easy transition.
> 
> 
> 
> (1) Download the director software 1.60* ( delete old drivers when prompted)
> 
> (2) Download the processor software 4.06*
> 
> (3) Unplug the 8 pin director cable from the processor
> 
> (4) Update processor FRIST and save/load file via the usb at the processor
> 
> (5) Shut down system
> 
> (6) Plug director cable back into processor
> 
> (7) Power system back up
> 
> (8) Connect at the director with laptop and connect.
> 
> (9) Load/save file to processor
> 
> (10) Check the I/O Martix for channel assignment.



Thanks for the tip, I'm gonna add one more from my experience:

When I ran the update as prescribed above, it went off without a hitch. Everything was as it should be after the upgrade.

So, I turned my car off. When I came back, the Director told me "No DSP OS loaded!" No audio.

So, I unplugged the Director, and hooked up the computer directly to the DSP.

The software got as far as the profile selection. After that, it switched between "Starting Communications" and "Switching Setup" continuously.

The red light on the DSP was blinking angrily.

So my DSP wasn't completely bricked.

I had the thought of trying the old version: 3.40a, in my case.

3.40a was able to communicate, and downgrade the firmware. 

After doing that, I re-upgraded to the new release, and it worked over a few power cycles. Encouraged, I plugged in the director again.

It seems full functionality is restored.

So the lesson learned: keep the old version of the software handy.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BlackHHR

Bump this back to the end of the thread. 



BlackHHR said:


> For those that are updating the software from 3.40* to the new 4.06* with a director, we have pinned down the correct steps to make this an easy transition.
> 
> (1) Download the director software 1.60* ( delete old drivers when prompted)
> (2) Download the processor software 4.06*
> (3) Unplug the 8 pin director cable from the processor
> (4) Update processor FRIST and save/load file via the usb at the processor
> (5) Shut down system
> (6) Plug director cable back into processor
> (7) Power system back up
> (8) Connect at the director with laptop and connect.
> (9) Load/save file to processor
> (10) Check the I/O Martix for channel assignment.
> 
> My personal experience was the I/O Matrix did NOT transfer correctly from the file we had configured for the DSP PRO MKI to the DSP PRO MKII. Same holds true for the DSP PRO MKI when upgrading to the 4.06* software.
> The above is being researched and will be corrected on the back end.
> Everything else transferred correctly from the old software to the new software in the new DSP PRO MKII and the DSP PRO MKI
> If you guys have any questions please call us .
> 
> 770-888-8200
> 
> Greg


----------



## bertholomey

I downloaded the software correctly, I followed the steps above to install the new software to the DSP without issue. Cycled system off / on. The Director shows the following message (see pic) and no way to get to the menu to upload the Director software. 

Any tips to get past this?


----------



## bertholomey

Do I now have to go back to installing the old version of the DSP software (so I can get into the menu of the Director), then update the Director software, then reset the DSP and reinstall the DSP software?


----------



## oliverlim

Thanks subterFUSE for the detailed guide! 

Will give it a run!



subterFUSE said:


> This is how I would set up a factory source with a Helix Pro or Pro 2 DSP, and REW as my measurement software:
> 
> 
> Step 1: Wire up your factory high level outputs into the DSP like normal.
> 
> .........
> 
> And I promise you that the auto EQ correction feature in the Audison Bit One is not doing anything CLOSE to a perfect job of leveling the signal. It does almost nothing. A manual parametric EQ like Helix has is light years beyond what Audison does.


----------



## Pariah Zero

bertholomey said:


> I downloaded the software correctly, I followed the steps above to install the new software to the DSP without issue. Cycled system off / on. The Director shows the following message (see pic) and no way to get to the menu to upload the Director software.
> 
> Any tips to get past this?


1st question: Which version of the Director firmware is currently installed? It's always good to know where you're starting from. I'd hope it's at 1.5.0, but you never know...

2nd: Did you try to run the update for the director to 1.6.0? I had some message that came up briefly as I was loading the Director Updater software. I didn't get a chance to read it as the updated software had just loaded and the Director's screen changed to its update screen.

Worst case: I've downgraded the DSP Pro firmware already (look up a few posts), and it's pretty painless. You're going to have to re-transfer your profiles anyway with the upgrade, so you've really lost nothing but time by downgrading & upgrading again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bertholomey

Pariah Zero said:


> 1st question: Which version of the Director firmware is currently installed? It's always good to know where you're starting from. I'd hope it's at 1.5.0, but you never know...
> 
> 2nd: Did you try to run the update for the director to 1.6.0? I had some message that came up briefly as I was loading the Director Updater software. I didn't get a chance to read it as the updated software had just loaded and the Director's screen changed to its update screen.
> 
> Worst case: I've downgraded the DSP Pro firmware already (look up a few posts), and it's pretty painless. You're going to have to re-transfer your profiles anyway with the upgrade, so you've really lost nothing but time by downgrading & upgrading again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for the response! I spoke to Greg via telephone, but I'd like to take the opportunity to respond here to possibly get further clarification. 

1) I believe I have version 1.50 on the Director firmware currently (I'm in Orlando all week, so I can't jump in and verify). 

2) I downloaded the 4.06a software on to the DSP first.......when I did that, I got the error message on the Director screen that I posted....therefore, I wasn't able to download the Director software. 

One of the things that Greg stated was that the old drivers that were previously downloaded to run 1.50 would not work with 1.60........when I downloaded 1.60, I was instructed initially to 'uncheck' the boxes so the new drivers would not download - causing conflicts. I deleted the director download and re-downloaded it with the accompanying drivers. 

At this point, when I get home - I still don't have the option to go into the menu of the Director to choose to update it......so I'm thinking that I'll need to reset the DSP, re-install the 3.40a to be able to get to the Director menu, then do the Director update, then do the DSP update to 4.07a.


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## bbfoto

^I had similar issues. What a flustercuck, I feel your pain. 

I realize that these are very complicated electronic devices, and boutique/niche devices at that, but it sure would be nice if the entire update process was a bit more integrated and simplified, because otherwise these are spectacular units! I love my Helix DSP PRO's, but so far I can't say that I've been a fan of the Director remote.

Got to pay to play, I suppose.


----------



## haakono

This may have been answered before, but the thread is up to almost 1400 replies now from start to end.

But does the Helix accept a volume controlled/attenuated optical/digital signal?

So that you for instance could use like a Clarion NX706 or Sony RSX-GS9 head unit and control the volume from the H/U? Or do you have to use the Director to control the volume in such a setup?


----------



## subterFUSE

The Helix will accept a variable digital input, like you see from a mobridge DA1 preamp. In this case you can use the optical input and control volume on the source device.

However, to correct your post above, the Sony RSXGS9 does not have a variable optical digital output. The level of the Sony digital out is fixed and very loud. You must have a DSP volume controller like the Director, UR or a custom potentiometer to control the volume at the DSP if you want to use the Sony GS9.

Also, if you do have a Sony GS9, the preferred method of connection is analog. It has spectacular DA converters in it and the analog quality is superb. Plus, you can't play DSD hi res files over the optical output at native resolution.


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## t3sn4f2

subterFUSE said:


> The Helix will accept a variable digital input, like you see from a mobridge DA1 preamp. In this case you can use the optical input and control volume on the source device.
> 
> However, to correct your post above, the Sony RSXGS9 does not have a variable optical digital output. The level of the Sony digital out is fixed and very loud. You must have a DSP volume controller like the Director, UR or a custom potentiometer to control the volume at the DSP if you want to use the Sony GS9.
> 
> Also, if you do have a Sony GS9, the preferred method of connection is analog. It has spectacular DA converters in it and the analog quality is superb. Plus, you can't play DSD hi res files over the optical output at native resolution.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__x2


----------



## haakono

Ah, thanks for a great and informative answer 

Did not know that about the Sony, my current setup is a Pioneer 80PRS, using a single (L+R) RCA cable to a P SIX DSP amp. But the DSP and input sections has so much in common with the DSP Pro that I might just as well ask in this thread. 

Not to many current H/U with optical digital out these days. The Sony and Clarion mentioned, and also a couple of Alpine 2DINs. Not sure if the digital output is fixed on the Clarion and Alpines though? 

I'm guessing the Clarion can output both hires/dsd audio through the digital out since its the front end of the all digital (as they say) Clarion system. And possibly also control the volume on the digital out?


----------



## subterFUSE

Most optical digital outputs are fixed.


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## ErinH

t3sn4f2 said:


> __x2


x3. 

I've had a couple people tell me the Sony has variable optical output which isn't true. Not sure who started that rumor.


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## ErinH

haakono said:


> Not sure if the digital output is fixed on the Clarion and Alpines though?


If you're talking about the Alpine 957HD unit I can tell you it is fixed optical output. Once you 'engage' the Optical output through the settings the unit's volume buttons no longer work. Meaning, you can push the volume buttons on the unit or the remote and nothing will happen.


----------



## haakono

Thanks guys 

Also, very likely that the Clarion is the same, I see now that the full digital system has its own "director-like" control unit with volume control:


----------



## ErinH

The clarion is variable. So with that unit (nx706) you can control digital volume at the headunit.


----------



## bbfoto

haakono said:


> ....
> 
> Not to many current H/U with optical digital out these days. The Sony and Clarion mentioned, and also a couple of Alpine 2DINs. Not sure if the digital output is fixed on the Clarion and Alpines though?
> 
> I'm guessing the Clarion can output both hires/dsd audio through the digital out since its the front end of the all digital (as they say) Clarion system. And possibly also control the volume on the digital out?


As Erin stated, the digital Toslink Optical output of the Clarion NX706 and the new NX807 (basically a NX706 with the addition of Apple's CarPlay) can be switched in the Menu to either Fixed or Variable digital output.

The Clarions will only play up to 24 Bit/96kHz files in PCM formats, not native DSD. DSD files would have to be converted to PCM WAV or FLAC in order to be played. AFAIK, the Clarions will not play DoP on the fly...

Some Hi-Res players can play DSD, but not natively, meaning not without internal conversion. This is called "DoP" (DSD over PCM) and these units convert the DSD 1-bit data stream to multi-bit PCM internally "on the fly" as the file is being played. Hi-Res players such as the Sony RSX-G9 will play DSD files "natively", meaning that the DSD 1-bit data stream is not converted to PCM before the DAC, but the special DAC does the conversion directly from 1-bit DSD to Analog. If you have spent extra money to purchase DSD files rather than Hi-Res 24- or 32-bit PCM WAV or FLAC files, it is preferable to use a player that plays "native DSD", not DoP, otherwise you have lost any advantage of using DSD.

The Sony RSX-GS9 has a Fixed, full level Toslink Optical Output. It will play native DSD but only via its built-in DAC using the Analog outputs. The Toslink Optical will only output digitally in PCM format.


----------



## oliverlim

Can I check if I understand the URC-2A feature correctly. If I configure one of the vol knob to subwoofer vol. It basically allows me to vary any output that has been configured as subwoofer on the helix? So the knob being in the middle at 12 o'clock is parity and what has been set in the helix. And moving it clockwise will increase the volume/gain of just the subwoofer channels?


----------



## BMW Alpina

subterFUSE said:


> The Helix will accept a variable digital input, like you see from a mobridge DA1 preamp. In this case you can use the optical input and control volume on the source device.
> 
> However, to correct your post above, the Sony RSXGS9 does not have a variable optical digital output. The level of the Sony digital out is fixed and very loud. You must have a DSP volume controller like the Director, UR or a custom potentiometer to control the volume at the DSP if you want to use the Sony GS9.
> 
> Also, if you do have a Sony GS9, the preferred method of connection is analog. It has spectacular DA converters in it and the analog quality is superb. Plus, you can't play DSD hi res files over the optical output at native resolution.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





bbfoto said:


> As Erin stated, the digital Toslink Optical output of the Clarion NX706 and the new NX807 (basically a NX706 with the addition of Apple's CarPlay) can be switched in the Menu to either Fixed or Variable digital output.
> 
> The Clarions will only play up to 24 Bit/96kHz files in PCM formats, not native DSD. DSD files would have to be converted to PCM WAV or FLAC in order to be played. AFAIK, the Clarions will not play DoP on the fly...
> 
> Some Hi-Res players can play DSD, but not natively, meaning not without internal conversion. This is called "DoP" (DSD over PCM) and these units convert the DSD 1-bit data stream to multi-bit PCM internally "on the fly" as the file is being played. Hi-Res players such as the Sony RSX-G9 will play DSD files "natively", meaning that the DSD 1-bit data stream is not converted to PCM before the DAC, but the special DAC does the conversion directly from 1-bit DSD to Analog. If you have spent extra money to purchase DSD files rather than Hi-Res 24- or 32-bit PCM WAV or FLAC files, it is preferable to use a player that plays "native DSD", not DoP, otherwise you have lost any advantage of using DSD.
> 
> The Sony RSX-GS9 has a Fixed, full level Toslink Optical Output. It will play native DSD but only via its built-in DAC using the Analog outputs. The Toslink Optical will only output digitally in PCM format.



I wonder which one have the better quality analog circuit (output),
the Sony RSX-GS9 or the Helix DSP Pro?
Because the Helix DSP Pro for sure have more processing power (DSP) than the Sony but in the end, it still have to be converted to analog output to feed the power amp...
and if the Helix DSP Pro have less quality analog circuit (output) compare to the Sony then the Analog sound quality will degrade...
Is this assumption correct?


----------



## subterFUSE

BMW Alpina said:


> I wonder which one have the better quality analog circuit (output),
> the Sony RSX-GS9 or the Helix DSP Pro?
> Because the Helix DSP Pro for sure have more processing power (DSP) than the Sony but in the end, it still have to be converted to analog output to feed the power amp...
> and if the Helix DSP Pro have less quality analog circuit (output) compare to the Sony then the Analog sound quality will degrade...
> Is this assumption correct?




No. It's an incorrect assumption.

In all likelihood, a digital to digital transfer would degrade more due to jitter. Plus, optical digital cables are very flaky. They are considered the worst type of digital connection. Home audiophiles rarely use optical. Coax digital is greatly preferred.

The DAC on both devices are very, very good. The Sony DAC is probably better, but the difference would be marginal.

A number of top competitors on the SQ Competition circuit will all agree. Analog is the way to use the Sony GS9. It just sounds better. Talk to the people running that deck. Trust me, the majority of them (if not all) will be going analog.

This idea that digital is always best is simply not true and needs to be questioned.

Perfect example, look at the Audison Bit One and the amps with the AV Bit Input. So many fanboys are convinced that because the signal stays digital all the way to the amp that this will magically make the sound better. But the truth is those amps don't sound as good compared to other amps with analog inputs. Audison also ran into problems with jitter on the optical input of the Bit One and they had to release a Sample Frequency Converter device to go in front of the DSP to solve the problem.

Bottom line, there are factors that are so much more critical than avoiding an extra DAC/ADC cycle.

If sound quality is REALLY important to you, then get the op amps upgraded on the DSP and your amps. Upgrade the rail caps and get the bias adjusted. These upgrades make noticeable improvements that far outweigh DAC use.

If you still can't bring yourself to shake the "digital is always best" mentality, then I would suggest waiting for the new HEC USB sound card module for the Helix Pro and Pro MK2. It will feature an asynchronous sound card that will prevent jitter. This would be a huge savings over the Sony GS9 (which quite frankly is a waste of money if going digital). 

The HEC module would be all digital, direct from the media player over USB, with an asynchronous DAC inside the DSP. No optical cable. No chain of digital devices converting sample rates or causing jitter.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BMW Alpina

subterFUSE said:


> No. It's an incorrect assumption.
> 
> In all likelihood, a digital to digital transfer would degrade more due to jitter. Plus, optical digital cables are very flaky. They are considered the worst type of digital connection. Home audiophiles rarely use optical. Coax digital is greatly preferred.
> 
> The DAC on both devices are very, very good. The Sony DAC is probably better, but the difference would be marginal.
> 
> A number of top competitors on the SQ Competition circuit will all agree. Analog is the way to use the Sony GS9. It just sounds better. Talk to the people running that deck. Trust me, the majority of them (if not all) will be going analog.
> 
> This idea that digital is always best is simply not true and needs to be questioned.
> 
> Perfect example, look at the Audison Bit One and the amps with the AV Bit Input. So many fanboys are convinced that because the signal stays digital all the way to the amp that this will magically make the sound better. But the truth is those amps don't sound as good compared to other amps with analog inputs. Audison also ran into problems with jitter on the optical input of the Bit One and they had to release a Sample Frequency Converter device to go in front of the DSP to solve the problem.
> 
> Bottom line, there are factors that are so much more critical than avoiding an extra DAC/ADC cycle.
> 
> If sound quality is REALLY important to you, then get the op amps upgraded on the DSP and your amps. Upgrade the rail caps and get the bias adjusted. These upgrades make noticeable improvements that far outweigh DAC use.
> 
> If you still can't bring yourself to shake the "digital is always best" mentality, then I would suggest waiting for the new HEC USB sound card module for the Helix Pro and Pro MK2. It will feature an asynchronous sound card that will prevent jitter. This would be a huge savings over the Sony GS9 (which quite frankly is a waste of money if going digital).
> 
> The HEC module would be all digital, direct from the media player over USB, with an asynchronous DAC inside the DSP. No optical cable. No chain of digital devices converting sample rates or causing jitter.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Actually I also will use the analog output of the Sony RSX-GS9 to feed an analog Zapco Crossover for my 2 way front active system... 

and not using any DSP... at least for now 

because eventhough it might not sound as "accurate" as a system that use DSP, but I think it will sound more natural and more "analog"...

My Sony RSX-GS9 suppose to arrive to my home in few hours, I am so excited


----------



## brumledb

Quick question about the HEC BT....

Do you have to switch between sources if using the HEC BT and a separate analog signal? Or does the BT signal take precedence like the optical signal does (if using optical). 

Because if the BT signal takes precedence like the optical signal does, then one shouldn't need a remote to switch between sources. Just simply turn off the BT and the head unit would be back as the source.


----------



## BlackHHR

brumledb said:


> Quick question about the HEC BT....
> 
> Do you have to switch between sources if using the HEC BT and a separate analog signal? Or does the BT signal take precedence like the optical signal does (if using optical).
> 
> Because if the BT signal takes precedence like the optical signal does, then one shouldn't need a remote to switch between sources. Just simply turn off the BT and the head unit would be back as the source.


Seems you answered your own question. Set BT to have priority .


----------



## Salami

brumledb said:


> Quick question about the HEC BT....
> 
> Do you have to switch between sources if using the HEC BT and a separate analog signal? Or does the BT signal take precedence like the optical signal does (if using optical).
> 
> Because if the BT signal takes precedence like the optical signal does, then one shouldn't need a remote to switch between sources. Just simply turn off the BT and the head unit would be back as the source.





BlackHHR said:


> Seems you answered your own question. Set BT to have priority .


Just to clear, I want to make I understand correctly before I make a purchase. In the example above if the BT source was turned off will the switch happen automatically? 



Another question but directly related to my system. I want to use the factory head unit which will feed speaker level input into the DSP Pro. I believe it can be set to priority. I also would like to use the HEX USB with a DAP. 

My cell phone is connected via BT to the factory head unit for hands free calling. If a call came in through the phone/head unit would it trigger a switch automatically to the speaker level inputs so I could take the call? Or do I need to manually switch? If it switched automatically what happens after the call ends? Will it switch back to the previously playing DAP? 

Also if the head unit was off and I turn on the DAP will it switch automatically to that input or do I have to switch it manually? 

I hoping this DSP will help me solve my integration issues with the stock head. 

Thanks, 

Rich


----------



## ryanr7386

Question, has anyone tried running a combination of a Helix DSP Pro and a standard Helix DSP in the same system setup? I am toying with the idea of running a 2-way set active in the dash/a-pillar, 3-way active in the front doors, a set of mid-bass in the rear quarter panels and one single dvc 12 in the trunk. So 14 total channels.


----------



## subterFUSE

I would just do a mini DSP for the rears. More delay is possible which is needed for proper rear fill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ryanr7386

subterFUSE said:


> I would just do a mini DSP for the rears. More delay is possible which is needed for proper rear fill
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What kinda price would I be looking at for one? I'm familiar with the Helix software already so that's a positive for picking up a used 6 to 8 helix dsp.


----------



## subterFUSE

$150 I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brumledb

That would only net you 12 channels though. When you use the minidsp with the rear fill plug-in, you only get two outputs.

I use a Helix pro + Minidsp for my rear-fill.


https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-Rear-Center channel plug-in.pdf


----------



## ryanr7386

brumledb said:


> That would only net you 12 channels though. When you use the minidsp with the rear fill plug-in, you only get two outputs.
> 
> I use a Helix pro + Minidsp for my rear-fill.
> 
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-Rear-Center channel plug-in.pdf


Ya, still convinced that the standard helix is the way to go but keep the recommendations coming. I may be complicating this system redesign way to much.


----------



## subterFUSE

ryanr7386 said:


> I may be complicating this system redesign way to much.



Yup. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bnlcmbcar

I've been playing around with my Helix DSP Pro mk1

I am wondering if it's possible to derive center channel signal from stereo input by manipulating the Helix IO matrix options?

Not talking about mono summed R+L

Considering the rear fill technique of obtaining L-R...

Is there a way to subtract the L-R signal from the mono sum R+L signal? 

If my logic is right this would leave a signal with only center information present?


----------



## Bnlcmbcar

Bnlcmbcar said:


> I've been playing around with my Helix DSP Pro mk1
> 
> I am wondering if it's possible to derive center channel signal from stereo input by manipulating the Helix IO matrix options?
> 
> Not talking about mono summed R+L
> 
> Considering the rear fill technique of obtaining L-R...
> 
> Is there a way to subtract the L-R signal from the mono sum R+L signal?
> 
> If my logic is right this would leave a signal with only center information present?


If anyone else was wondering it looks like a no. I asked ErinH about it and he broke it down for me:

ErinH:

If you use L-R and R-L to extract center from combined L+R you wind up with L+R again.

(L+R) - [(L-R)+(R-L)] = L+R - L + R - R + L = L+R


----------



## SPAZ

I was hoping someone can help me with an issue. I got rid of my old car a while ago and put my system into the new one. I currently have the remote wire from the head unit going to the DSP and from the dsp the remote wires going to the two amps. I am getting a popping sound every time I turn off the ignition. Any ideas what I can do to prevent this? It's pretty bad. Thanks


----------



## SPAZ

I just put in my helix dsp pro. I ran a cable from the remote
out from head unit (looked at manual to make sure it is the correct
cable) into the helix dsp and from there the output is going to the
front and sub amps. Whenever I turn off the ignition I am getting a
loud pop. Anything I am missing?


----------



## SPAZ

SPAZ said:


> I just put in my helix dsp pro. I ran a cable from the remote
> out from head unit (looked at manual to make sure it is the correct
> cable) into the helix dsp and from there the output is going to the
> front and sub amps. Whenever I turn off the ignition I am getting a
> loud pop. Anything I am missing?


I figured it out. I connected the red wire instead of the yellow wire from the head unit.


----------



## SPAZ

Hello, anyone in the Chicagoland area knows how to tune with the helix dsp pro? I am willing to pay. Thanks


----------



## p-lethal

SPAZ said:


> Hello, anyone in the Chicagoland area knows how to tune with the helix dsp pro? I am willing to pay. Thanks


Hey Man,

If you are willing to drive some check out GNC Customs in Goshen, IN. They installed and tuned my Helix DSP pro and I highly recommend them.


----------



## ndm

SPAZ said:


> Hello, anyone in the Chicagoland area knows how to tune with the helix dsp pro? I am willing to pay. Thanks


What do you specifically need help with bro?


----------



## lv_v

When can we expect a Bluetooth 5 add-in module to stream near-lossless audio to the Helix DSP? Anyone with inside knowledge of their product development pipeline?


----------



## Babs

lv_v said:


> When can we expect a Bluetooth 5 add-in module to stream near-lossless audio to the Helix DSP? Anyone with inside knowledge of their product development pipeline?



The HEC USB is the coolest way to get sure-enough lossless to the Helix. That said I finally ran the coax line to it to test a Fiio X5ii straight SPDIF verses the Sony GS9 analog. Jury is still out on which is better. I will say as far as Bluetooth goes, this Sony is best I've ever heard. Still lossy I'm sure but darned impressive for bt. If the Helix bt HEC is as good, then it's certainly usable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bbfoto

lv_v said:


> When can we expect a Bluetooth 5 add-in module to stream near-lossless audio to the Helix DSP? Anyone with inside knowledge of their product development pipeline?


I don't think we will be seeing BT 5.0 anytime soon. Audiotech-Fisher released the HEC BT Module not that long ago and they probably need to recoup their R&D and production investment from the current design. However, they did just upgrade the DSP PRO to the MKII version and will also be releasing the Brax Graphic & Matrix processors soon as well, so ya never know!

There currently aren't too many devices out in the wild at the moment that have BT 5.0, but I'm guessing you are one of the several million who have just picked up a new Samsung Galaxy S8/S8+. Samsung has always included the absolute newest BT versions in their flagship smartphones and tablets which is great. It's all backwards-compatible so why not? 

But yeah, I'd love to see Helix and others start implementing BT 5.0 ASAP. It's a MAJOR bump up in Quality, Power (distance), and Features!

The Sony GS9's "Hi-Res" *LDAC* BT Protocol is great, but it's pretty much exclusive to their devices, IOW proprietary, or at least requiring substantial licensing fees, so I doubt you'll see very many devices or other companies use it.


----------



## Elektra

Just got this in...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

Nice, Massimo! 

Once you get it up and running, I would love to hear your thoughts on how it works/how easy it is to use...

- What Source do you plan to use via USB?
- Does it keep a consistent connection to the USB source device?
- Are there any pops, ticks, or glitches when transitioning between files with different Sample Rates?

Enjoy!


----------



## Elektra

bbfoto said:


> Nice, Massimo!
> 
> 
> 
> Once you get it up and running, I would love to hear your thoughts on how it works/how easy it is to use...
> 
> 
> 
> - What Source do you plan to use via USB?
> 
> - Does it keep a consistent connection to the USB source device?
> 
> - Are there any pops, ticks, or glitches when transitioning between files with different Sample Rates?
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!




I'll let you know - I bought a Helix DSP MKii , Director and MTk-1 for for a good price once I get it I'll install the USB 

I have an LG V20 and IPhone 6+ so I'll do a test and let you guys know - I also bought the EPC 5.2 and the cable for the Bmw 13A I think 

But yeah I might get that Pioneer portable player or use the LG - let's see


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vdigiorgio

Question...
I just installed my dsp pro to a VW rns 315, im having problems with the dsp sensing the head turning on but then no sound comes from the dsp.. after i turn of the radio and wait for the dsp to completely turn off then turn the radio on again it then picks up the signal and i get sound.. Anyone else have this problem? 
Sometimes it does take a while for the dsp to fully turn off.. and sometimes ill find the unit on when i get in the car??? I have the director installed also, so when i get in the car turn the ignition on the radio turns on i wait till the director connects then no sound sometimes... really want to pull my hair out.. the audison bit ten it replaced never had any problems and started up right when i turned the radio on..
Is this normal with the helix?
thanks


----------



## toneloc2

I have the same problem once and awhile if you turn the knob on the director when this happens the volume is there,,,,, that's my fix ,,,,, let me know if that works for you......


----------



## vdigiorgio

toneloc2 said:


> I have the same problem once and awhile if you turn the knob on the director when this happens the volume is there,,,,, that's my fix ,,,,, let me know if that works for you......


im still having the same problem.. unit turns on before i even get in the car.. i unlock doors and the unit turns itself on.. weird. the director volume control has no effect in turning sound on.. ugh im starting to really regret this purchase.


----------



## vdigiorgio

Does the dsp processor need to be connected to constant power or can i be run off ignition.. and the director on constant power to save the previous volume settings???


----------



## davewpy

vdigiorgio said:


> Does the dsp processor need to be connected to constant power or can i be run off ignition.. and the director on constant power to save the previous volume settings???


I run mine directly off a power distribution block and my installer wired up the remote turn on to ignition.

In other words, mine turns on only when key is in and I turn to acc on equivalent (VW) as well.

My director is wired to power on only when DSP turns on as well. Never had any of the issues mentioned so far.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## vdigiorgio

davewpy said:


> I run mine directly off a power distribution block and my installer wired up the remote turn on to ignition.
> 
> In other words, mine turns on only when key is in and I turn to acc on equivalent (VW) as well.
> 
> My director is wired to power on only when DSP turns on as well. Never had any of the issues mentioned so far.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


just wired the dsp the same way you have it.. ill let you know if that fixes my problems.. thanks


----------



## vdigiorgio

vdigiorgio said:


> just wired the dsp the same way you have it.. ill let you know if that fixes my problems.. thanks


Only problem with wiring the director to ignition is that no memory saves for the director and you cant use all the presets that come with it.. plus it dosnt connect half the time.. sorry but i think the helix was designed horribly. 
i have never had this prob with any other dsp...


----------



## BlackHHR

vdigiorgio said:


> Does the dsp processor need to be connected to constant power or can i be run off ignition.. and the director on constant power to save the previous volume settings???


Constant power on the processor and director. It is in the little book that came with the dsp and director. 

Page 25 begins English for Director 

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/BAs/BA_DIRECTOR_.pdf

Tech support number is 770-888-8200 

Josiah or Greg 

Thanks ahead of time.


----------



## BlackHHR

vdigiorgio said:


> Only problem with wiring the director to ignition is that no memory saves for the director and you cant use all the presets that come with it.. plus it dosnt connect half the time.. sorry but i think the helix was designed horribly.
> i have never had this prob with any other dsp...


We do not have any problems with the kits. May I suggest taking to the dealer you bought it from, have them sort out the install and software download. 

Or, box up you kit and ship it to us. I will personally flash the processor and director and ship it back to you. 

Please include your sales receipt . 

shoot me an email @ [email protected](dot)com.


----------



## vdigiorgio

BlackHHR said:


> We do not have any problems with the kits. May I suggest taking to the dealer you bought it from, have them sort out the install and software download.
> 
> Or, box up you kit and ship it to us. I will personally flash the processor and director and ship it back to you.
> 
> Please include your sales receipt .
> 
> shoot me an email @ [email protected](dot)com.


Hi 
the director and the dsp have the newest firmware already installed...


----------



## toneloc2

vdigiorgio said:


> Only problem with wiring the director to ignition is that no memory saves for the director and you cant use all the presets that come with it.. plus it dosnt connect half the time.. sorry but i think the helix was designed horribly.
> i have never had this prob with any other dsp...


what are the presets your missing?


----------



## BlackHHR

vdigiorgio said:


> Hi
> the director and the dsp have the newest firmware already installed...


For us to help you, I would advise you calling us. We work with these processors and directors daily. We can even face time with you if you have an IPhone. We have an i phone for the shop that we use for tech support in situations just like this. 

770-888-8200


----------



## dengland

Has there been any discussion about Audiotec incorporating the ability import filter coefficients generated from an audio tool (e.g. REW)? I believe the miniDSP has this ability.

I have been playing lately with autoEQ inside of REW. If I let it, REW will use a fair number of filters. Manually adjusting the frequency, gain, and Q based on what REW generates is a bit of effort as a play with different configurations.


----------



## BlackHHR

Not that I am aware of at this time. I just do not see them incorporating another companies software into their software. But I could be wrong.


----------



## davewpy

vdigiorgio said:


> Only problem with wiring the director to ignition is that no memory saves for the director and you cant use all the presets that come with it.. plus it dosnt connect half the time.. sorry but i think the helix was designed horribly.
> i have never had this prob with any other dsp...


I was pretty sure I mentioned both my devices were wired to the power distribution block which is direct to the battery. The remote of the processor to the ignition.

You really should contact BlackHHR because I have no problem with it and I have used a number of processors in the market, but this is the only one that I kept.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## Telly_Tilt

i can't remember which thread i read it but i am having the same problem.

when i mute all channels in the dsp software, i can still very faintly hear the music thru the sub woofer.

when i do certain testing with the microphone, i'm sure that noise won't help to produce true results.

was there ever a fix for this?

thanks.


----------



## billj214

Telly_Tilt said:


> i can't remember which thread i read it but i am having the same problem.
> 
> when i mute all channels in the dsp software, i can still very faintly hear the music thru the sub woofer.
> 
> when i do certain testing with the microphone, i'm sure that noise won't help to produce true results.
> 
> was there ever a fix for this?
> 
> thanks.


Possibly cross talk on RCA's? Try switching them or separate see if it's gone. Next test voltage or O-scope output on DSP output on RCA end at amp, may be leaking by or ground issue on connector. Just an idea, not sure what you'll find. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## bradknob

I had something interesting (read: scary as f***) happen yesterday. Was driving, heard a loud POP, and everything went silent. Killed the car and started again..... nothing. Car sat off for about 3 hours, cranked it up and everything works fine.

Had the unit over a year with no other issues. I was running my iPhone straight to ch G+H when it happened. Seems almost like the unit went into protect mode or something. Anyone ever experience this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## billj214

bradknob said:


> I had something interesting (read: scary as f***) happen yesterday. Was driving, heard a loud POP, and everything went silent. Killed the car and started again..... nothing. Car sat off for about 3 hours, cranked it up and everything works fine.
> 
> Had the unit over a year with no other issues. I was running my iPhone straight to ch G+H when it happened. Seems almost like the unit went into protect mode or something. Anyone ever experience this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds like you have a wire shorting or being pinched somewhere, the AMPS or DSP possibly went into protect mode.


----------



## Telly_Tilt

Question... with the power saving feature where when there's no signal and it turns the amps off, do any of you hear a low click or hiss sound every 30 seconds or so? If I mute my head unit or turn the sound all the way down, I hear the click sound in my right mid bass woofer and my amps blink. This happens repeatedly every 30 or 45 Seconds or until I turn the music back on.

Is ANY of this normal?

Thanks.


----------



## toneloc2

no weird nose with mine total silence..... something must be touching somewhere,,,,,,


----------



## Babs

Telly_Tilt said:


> i can't remember which thread i read it but i am having the same problem.
> 
> when i mute all channels in the dsp software, i can still very faintly hear the music thru the sub woofer.
> 
> when i do certain testing with the microphone, i'm sure that noise won't help to produce true results.
> 
> was there ever a fix for this?
> 
> thanks.





billj214 said:


> Possibly cross talk on RCA's? Try switching them or separate see if it's gone. Next test voltage or O-scope output on DSP output on RCA end at amp, may be leaking by or ground issue on connector. Just an idea, not sure what you'll find.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


So I get just a few minutes in the evenings to troubleshoot it, but I can report on my symptoms of this... It's not the DSP, that's verified. I switched from ISO to GND, and suddenly muting or zero volume on the Director is dead silent. And oh man without the signal cross-talk, it cleaned up the SQ immensely. Like big time. Can't wait to tune.

So with that, I'm going to verify being set to GND doesn't introduce alt-whine or other ground related noise this evening. Hopefully not. At this point, trying to find out exactly why in ISO the output was still getting signal causing the problem where GND does not? 

Possibly a ground/power supply issue? Was pretty sure the power/ground connections were pretty darn solid but certainly want to check it out. One test recommended was remove RCA's and power up the system.. If no power that's a pretty good indicator certainly.

Just for quick reference.. This is all that's said in the manual on the switch:



Helix Pro-2 User Manual said:


> Ground lift switch
> The ground of the HELIX DSP PRO MK2 signal inputs is galvanically decoupled from the ground of the signal outputs. In many cars this setup is the best way to avoid alternator noise.
> 
> Nevertheless, there are use cases where it will Initial start-up and functions
> be necessary to directly connect input and output ground or to tie both grounds together via a resistor.
> 
> Therefore the Ground lift switch has three positions:
> - ISO center position: input and output ground separated.
> - GND left position: input and output ground tied together.
> - 200ohm right position: input and output ground connected via 200 Ohms resistor.


----------



## jbeez

Telly_Tilt said:


> Question... with the power saving feature where when there's no signal and it turns the amps off, do any of you hear a low click or hiss sound every 30 seconds or so? If I mute my head unit or turn the sound all the way down, I hear the click sound in my right mid bass woofer and my amps blink. This happens repeatedly every 30 or 45 Seconds or until I turn the music back on.
> 
> Is ANY of this normal?
> 
> Thanks.


I think my unit did this when I used high level inputs to turn the unit on. I switched it to remote in using a relay supplied signal off of a circuit that comes on when i start the car and it fixed that problem for me, actually fixed an issue I think as well with the director saying it wasn't configured in the helix unit, I haven't had that problem since I changed to that method either. My car's factory radio is really weird (ford sony sync mytouch thing)


----------



## jbeez

Just updated my director and Helix DSP.
New director software ver 1.63 released today.
New PC-Tool 4.10d released yesterday. I updated the director first, then the DSP, then loaded my old setting file from 3.x seems like no issue.

If you swap between screens and hit "main" and your crossover settings are gone, just hit main a few more times you'll be back to default(previously though this was a bug)

I have a Helix DSP MK2 coming tomorrow, I was just going to update the director but when I did it no longer could communicate with the dsp so I just did that one too. I think my prior director ver to today was 1.61 which was talking to my helix on v3 just fine FWIW.


----------



## Rtsr21

Maybe someone can help me here, everything was working ok when I had the minidsp installed now I have the Helix dsp pro mk2 and I'm getting a popping or distorting noise from my door speakers when I turn the volume up.

I rechecked the gains on the amp checked the HU for max volume, what else can I try to fix this?


----------



## jbeez

Rtsr21 said:


> Maybe someone can help me here, everything was working ok when I had the minidsp installed now I have the Helix dsp pro mk2 and I'm getting a popping or distorting noise from my door speakers when I turn the volume up.
> 
> I rechecked the gains on the amp checked the HU for max volume, what else can I try to fix this?


There are level sliders per output in the pc-tool software as well. I used an smd dd1+ with the 1khz and 40hz test tracks and checked the output of my dsp pro mk2, I had to lower the output level to reduce some distortion being picked up, but I don't thin that would cause a pop? Worth checking though.

When I used toslink in I lowered them as such:
A: -1.50
B: -1.00
C & D: -0.75
G & H: -3.75

G&H are my sub channels, only tested 40hz, for a/b tweeters i only did 1khz, and for the c&d chans which are my front doors I did both 1khz and 40hz, I used the lower level of the two to be safe.

I tested with no equalization or crossover settings in place, had all my amp connections unhooked, then when I did amp gains I had my speakers unhooked.

I had a Helix DSP prior to this, and the output voltage was maybe 2v+ lower on each channel, I really noticed a difference setting the amp gains using the mk2, they were alot closer to the lowest level they can be before it hit peak output and started to show distortion, which imo is a good thing.

When I used the HDAudio hec card, I rechecked, I had to lower an addition .5dB on every output to get the distortion light on that tool to go away. Source was an iPad mini 4 w/ cck going to a small zhilai dac optical out, then just cck to usb cable to the dsp for the hec module.

I'm not sure why the signal would be so hot as to cause an inkling of distortion at 0dB level considering its being converted inside the DSP but w/e.


----------



## SPAZ

So I am probably going to put my audio system into my car soon but at this point finances are tight and I was thinking of leveraging the Toyota entune head unit and in to the highlevel inputs of the DSP Pro. Will the DSP Pro work well in this type of scenario? Thanks


----------



## ARCuhTEK

On a side note....and I am sure this link has already been posted in this thread, but ...I was very impressed with this "magazine" from AF which essentially gives you an in-depth look at the Helix DSP controls, along with some very valuable warnings. Today will be my first day of tinkering with the Pro Mk2 and I am trying to read as much as I can... I have, more or less, never attempted an active system set up, with my first system being tuned by a friend. Here is the link to the PDF file. It is long, but again, I am impressed at how much info is in this one document:

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/files/DSP%20Magazin/ATF_Sound_Tuning_Magazine-DSP_Special_Vol_2.pdf


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## toneloc2

good luck with your tuning,,,, i wish af magazine was updated i found this in the software and not sure what to do with it.....


----------



## bradknob

toneloc2 said:


> good luck with your tuning,,,, i wish af magazine was updated i found this in the software and not sure what to do with it.....




That's the input EQ. Gives you 5 bands to adjust the signal going into the dsp. Helps smooth the response a little before you start using the output EQs


----------



## SkizeR

bradknob said:


> That's the input EQ. Gives you 5 bands to adjust the signal going into the dsp. Helps smooth the response a little before you start using the output EQs


The most helpful thing I find about the input eq is you can eq the output completely flat or to your target curve first, then use the input eq to adjust to your liking

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## ARCuhTEK

I am installing/setting up my Helix DSP Pro Mk2. I ran across three issues that I need assistance:

1. In the I/O section it was my understanding that even though my Pioneer NEX4200 Hu has five total preamp low level RCA outputs, I only need to utilize the front pair. As such in my I/O settings I am to use FRONT R FULL and FRONT L FULL INPUTs for all my OUTPUT assignments. TO be clear...not both L and R for each assignment... I used FONT R FULL to feed my FRONT R HIGH, my FRONT RIGHT LOW and also my SUB. All of this is to say....I will only need one set of RCA pairs from head unit to the DSP....right? I do not need three pairs of RCAs from HU to DSP. I am pretty sure this is what Josh Buwaldas YT video states. But if someone could verify that one more time that would make me feel better. I have the carpet out of the vehicle and it was a PITA so dont want to do it again.

2. Is the DSP manual, there is a section on adjusting input sensitivity. It has a somewhat lengthy explanation of taking the DSP apart and moving jumpers...etc. The first sentence on the subject says adjust input sensitivity is mandatory.... so my confusion is this: Is it mandatory to take the dsp apart and use the jumpers to get the input sensitivity correct or is the manual stating that you MIGHT have to utilize the jumpers in order to get the sensitivity correct...because it is different for every user???

3. I have a single subwoofer being driven by a DSL A6 monoblock subwoofer amplifier. Do I need to assign two output channels since the amp uses two RCA inputs? I have set it up as FRONT R FULL and also FRONT L FULL input assigned to output to subwoofer channel 1 and FRONT R FULL and also FRONT L FULL input assigned to output to subwoofer channel 2. Is that correct? I assume that the DSP will sum the two input channels and output that summed signal. I also assume the amplifier does the same summation, but that will not matter because both RCAs will be sending (previously) summed signal to the amp.

Thank you!


----------



## toneloc2

answers for ? 1;3; yes only one set of rca's is all you need,,,, 
see my pic of my input layout for my sub, from e out i ran a rca y single out of e then two inputs to my mono amp.. as for ? 2 i never took mine apart...


----------



## toneloc2

SkizeR said:


> The most helpful thing I find about the input eq is you can eq the output completely flat or to your target curve first, then use the input eq to adjust to your liking
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


hey SkizeR would this be the same as like using your eq from head unit before going to dsp?


----------



## SkizeR

toneloc2 said:


> hey SkizeR would this be the same as like using your eq from head unit before going to dsp?


For the most part. I would suggest starting with the first and last band of the input eq after output eq is done and use them for high and low shelf filters to shape tonality to your liking.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez

ARCuhTEK said:


> I am installing/setting up my Helix DSP Pro Mk2. I ran across three issues that I need assistance:
> 
> 1. In the I/O section it was my understanding that even though my Pioneer NEX4200 Hu has five total preamp low level RCA outputs, I only need to utilize the front pair. As such in my I/O settings I am to use FRONT R FULL and FRONT L FULL INPUTs for all my OUTPUT assignments. TO be clear...not both L and R for each assignment... I used FONT R FULL to feed my FRONT R HIGH, my FRONT RIGHT LOW and also my SUB. All of this is to say....I will only need one set of RCA pairs from head unit to the DSP....right? I do not need three pairs of RCAs from HU to DSP. I am pretty sure this is what Josh Buwaldas YT video states. But if someone could verify that one more time that would make me feel better. I have the carpet out of the vehicle and it was a PITA so dont want to do it again.
> 
> 2. Is the DSP manual, there is a section on adjusting input sensitivity. It has a somewhat lengthy explanation of taking the DSP apart and moving jumpers...etc. The first sentence on the subject says adjust input sensitivity is mandatory.... so my confusion is this: Is it mandatory to take the dsp apart and use the jumpers to get the input sensitivity correct or is the manual stating that you MIGHT have to utilize the jumpers in order to get the sensitivity correct...because it is different for every user???
> 
> 3. I have a single subwoofer being driven by a DSL A6 monoblock subwoofer amplifier. Do I need to assign two output channels since the amp uses two RCA inputs? I have set it up as FRONT R FULL and also FRONT L FULL input assigned to output to subwoofer channel 1 and FRONT R FULL and also FRONT L FULL input assigned to output to subwoofer channel 2. Is that correct? I assume that the DSP will sum the two input channels and output that summed signal. I also assume the amplifier does the same summation, but that will not matter because both RCAs will be sending (previously) summed signal to the amp.
> 
> Thank you!


People have different sources, so just adjust if your source is out of bounds with the default setting. I've never had to adjust those inside the dsp. I did have to go in and turn off the signal sensing auto turnon for my car, because it would light it up randomly when my car was off, turning my amps on, draining some batt.

How many volts is your headunit putting out on the rcas?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## ARCuhTEK

jbeez said:


> How many volts is your headunit putting out on the rcas?


I actually do not know that information yet. I can tell you tomorrow. I do not have the Helix DSP in the vehicle yet, but tomorrow is finally a day off and time to kill.  Thank you for your help.


----------



## subterFUSE

For best signal to noise results you need to adjust the input gains inside the DSP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ARCuhTEK

subterFUSE said:


> For best signal to noise results you need to adjust the input gains inside the DSP.


In the instructions manual, it says to test the inputs one at a time, with the amps not connected at all. Use a 1kHz pink noise test tone. Set HU volume at 90%. Adjust input gains until DSP clipping light illuminates and then you dial it back slightly and done. So my next question is: Since I am only using two RCAs into the DSP, no digital (yet) and no BT or Aux .... Then this means I simply test left RCA then test right RCA using the above process...correct?


----------



## subterFUSE

Yes. You only need 2 input channel to feed your DSP. You will use the IO matrix to route those inputs appropriately.

Since you are only using 1 pair of inputs, then you only need to adjust the input gain trim potentiometer on those inputs being used.

Personally, if you only plan to use 1 pair of RCA outputs from the source, then I would probably just use the AUX inputs on the DSP unless you plan to add an AUX analog source later.

In the Main routing tab, you will see that it is possible to apply the AUX Left and Right inputs to the main outputs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez

subterFUSE said:


> For best signal to noise results you need to adjust the input gains inside the DSP.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think his hu is 4v, isn't that where the input gain ships?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## subterFUSE

jbeez said:


> I think his hu is 4v, isn't that where the input gain ships?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk




Still needs to be adjusted.

There are jumpers for coarse adjust and pots for fine adjust. He might not need to move jumpers but the pots should be trimmed to optimal setting.

DSP gain structure is important.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ARCuhTEK

subterFUSE said:


> Yes. You only need 2 input channel to feed your DSP. You will use the IO matrix to route those inputs appropriately.
> 
> Since you are only using 1 pair of inputs, then you only need to adjust the input gain trim potentiometer on those inputs being used.
> 
> Personally, if you only plan to use 1 pair of RCA outputs from the source, then I would probably just use the AUX inputs on the DSP unless you plan to add an AUX analog source later.
> 
> In the Main routing tab, you will see that it is possible to apply the AUX Left and Right inputs to the main outputs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perfect and thank you. Just out of curiosity, why the AUX input selection? I am going to add a coax SPDIF in the near future (couple of weeks). I already ordered the cable, just waiting on arrival. 

Which brings me to another question: Do I run through all my tuning and set up for the HU and save all that to a preset.... Then repeat the whole process for a second source such as digital/Fiio source? I mean...mic measurment, input gain sensitivity, eq, etc. If the answer is yes... how do two different source impact the amp gain settings? Going through the DSP I can see how you can have multiple set ups for multiple sources, but then when I get to amp gains I am like....hmmmm????


----------



## ARCuhTEK

Ran into an interesting "issue" with the Helix Director today.

The volume knob just suddenly fell off. I had never noticed, but there is a pressure screw located in the side of the knob. Mine is obviously gone. I have no idea where it might be, aside from the obvious "its inside the car".

It is so tiny, I have no idea what to do to replace it. I contacted my audio dealer who sold me the unit for assistance on locating a spare screw or replacing the Director or maybe even telling me the screw size so I can track down a replacement own my own.

So.....go directly to your Director and check the screw tightness... PITA if the screw falls out. The knob will not even remotely stay on... It almost renders the Director useless until repaired. I CAN use it...but have to hold the Director in one hand and the knob in the other. (my Director is not mounted just yet..it is brand new).


----------



## jsnstanley

I thought mine had fallen out as well. It didn’t. It’s just recessed farther within. I’ve tightened it several times since, until applying thread locker.


----------



## ARCuhTEK

jsnstanley said:


> I thought mine had fallen out as well. It didn’t. It’s just recessed farther within. I’ve tightened it several times since, until applying thread locker.


Interesting. If the screw went further in, would that not make it tighter onto the metal post? Thread lock not a bad idea.


----------



## lashlee

If it happens again, run by a local hobby shop. They should have some set screws laying around that are used for the pinion gear on RC cars.


----------



## ARCuhTEK

Thank you. My dealer has screws en route to me now.


----------



## dsquared

New question here.
My gains are pretty close to maxed out in all areas pertaining to my subs.
•gain on amp
•bass boost
•director sub level
•gain in software for sub channels

My mids and tweets are set in the normal 1/4-1/3 range.

I'm using the HEC module and IPhone as a source. IPhone is turned up all the way and so is the volume in the HEC/AUX. The subs just seem held back for the most part so any suggestions?


----------



## rton20s

dsquared said:


> New question here.
> My gains are pretty close to maxed out in all areas pertaining to my subs.
> •gain on amp
> •bass boost
> •director sub level
> •gain in software for sub channels
> 
> My mids and tweets are set in the normal 1/4-1/3 range.
> 
> I'm using the HEC module and IPhone as a source. IPhone is turned up all the way and so is the volume in the HEC/AUX. The subs just seem held back for the most part so any suggestions?


Have you confirmed you do not have a high pass filter turned on somewhere and that you are feeding the DSP a full range signal?


----------



## dsquared

Confirmed,,,The frequency is there but the output is just ok for having all those settings jacked. Just thought it was something I was missing setting wise in the pro. What else can I check?


----------



## bbfoto

dsquared said:


> New question here.
> My gains are pretty close to maxed out in all areas pertaining to my subs.
> •gain on amp
> •bass boost
> •director sub level
> •gain in software for sub channels
> 
> My mids and tweets are set in the normal 1/4-1/3 range.
> 
> I'm using the HEC module and IPhone as a source. IPhone is turned up all the way and so is the volume in the HEC/AUX. The subs just seem held back for the most part so any suggestions?


You said, "Sub*s*". If you have two or more, is one of them accidentally wired in reverse polarity, at the amp or at the subs themselves? Or maybe a phase reversal set in software somewhere?


----------



## bradknob

dsquared said:


> Confirmed,,,The frequency is there but the output is just ok for having all those settings jacked. Just thought it was something I was missing setting wise in the pro. What else can I check?



I had a similar issues, Check your sub channel in the I/o screen. I had 2 channels linked together and if I had a L + R on each ch they would cancel each other out. HAd to put L on one ch and R on the other


----------



## High Resolution Audio

ARCuhTEK said:


> I am installing/setting up my Helix DSP Pro Mk2. I ran across three issues that I need assistance:
> 
> 1. In the I/O section it was my understanding that even though my Pioneer NEX4200 Hu has five total preamp low level RCA outputs, I only need to utilize the front pair. As such in my I/O settings I am to use FRONT R FULL and FRONT L FULL INPUTs for all my OUTPUT assignments. TO be clear...not both L and R for each assignment... I used FONT R FULL to feed my FRONT R HIGH, my FRONT RIGHT LOW and also my SUB. All of this is to say....I will only need one set of RCA pairs from head unit to the DSP....right? I do not need three pairs of RCAs from HU to DSP. I am pretty sure this is what Josh Buwaldas YT video states. But if someone could verify that one more time that would make me feel better. I have the carpet out of the vehicle and it was a PITA so dont want to do it again.
> 
> 2. Is the DSP manual, there is a section on adjusting input sensitivity. It has a somewhat lengthy explanation of taking the DSP apart and moving jumpers...etc. The first sentence on the subject says adjust input sensitivity is mandatory.... so my confusion is this: Is it mandatory to take the dsp apart and use the jumpers to get the input sensitivity correct or is the manual stating that you MIGHT have to utilize the jumpers in order to get the sensitivity correct...because it is different for every user???
> 
> 3. I have a single subwoofer being driven by a DSL A6 monoblock subwoofer amplifier. Do I need to assign two output channels since the amp uses two RCA inputs? I have set it up as FRONT R FULL and also FRONT L FULL input assigned to output to subwoofer channel 1 and FRONT R FULL and also FRONT L FULL input assigned to output to subwoofer channel 2. Is that correct? I assume that the DSP will sum the two input channels and output that summed signal. I also assume the amplifier does the same summation, but that will not matter because both RCAs will be sending (previously) summed signal to the amp.
> 
> Thank you!


From the video's I watched, when selecting subwoofer channel Josiah Buldwa selects front L 50% and front R 50% for subwoofer . Maybe search you-tube for his tutorial.


----------



## dsquared

That was it! I feel so relieved now that I set the gains where they all belong.
It's Ike a different sub system now!


----------



## davewpy

I was wondering if anyone had realised that there is some weird behaviour on Helix DSP and PC-Tool?

I had been doing phase alignment on my car. When I shut the system down and power up again after a break, I realised that the system just sounds different. Even though it was loading the correct profile.

So when I connected the PC-Tool, the sound changes again and I had to either, mute or unmute each channel, or change the phase angle back and forth before it starts to sound correct.

It's pretty inconsistent and it seems that in the local scene, I'm not the only one facing it.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## lashlee

I've used mine a bunch over the last few days and haven't noticed any issues. Have you tried to reset the DSP and reload?


----------



## banshee28

Maybe its not saved properly? I noticed something similar and that was my issue. I would try to open the PC-Tool again, get it sounding the way you want it, hit the save button on there, and once its saved and the little red-light on top of the save button is no longer lit, shutdown the program and remove USB. If its still good, next shutdown the system. Then turn back on and see if its correct. 


davewpy said:


> I was wondering if anyone had realised that there is some weird behaviour on Helix DSP and PC-Tool?
> 
> I had been doing phase alignment on my car. When I shut the system down and power up again after a break, I realised that the system just sounds different. Even though it was loading the correct profile.
> 
> So when I connected the PC-Tool, the sound changes again and I had to either, mute or unmute each channel, or change the phase angle back and forth before it starts to sound correct.
> 
> It's pretty inconsistent and it seems that in the local scene, I'm not the only one facing it.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

banshee28 said:


> Maybe its not saved properly? I noticed something similar and that was my issue. I would try to open the PC-Tool again, get it sounding the way you want it, hit the save button on there, and once its saved and the little red-light on top of the save button is no longer lit, shutdown the program and remove USB. If its still good, next shutdown the system. Then turn back on and see if its correct.


Yes, on slot 1 memory, if you turn it back on, it sounds correct. But connect PC-Tool and load the same slot that was loaded and everything would sound weird again.

The same behaviour can be replicated offline - turn allpass control on, show your phase plots, load the same profile and your phase plots changes.

I believe this is only happening on systems that are using phase alignment.


----------



## falcon

Very novice question here...but if you are only using the digital input (optical or USB) as a source, is there any reason to adjust input sensitivity at all, or should you just leave it at the minimum?


----------



## subterFUSE

falcon said:


> Very novice question here...but if you are only using the digital input (optical or USB) as a source, is there any reason to adjust input sensitivity at all, or should you just leave it at the minimum?




Digital signals are normally sent at 0 dB FS so there should be no need to adjust sensitivity.

Some sources have digital outputs with variable volume, but it's still best to run them at full and use the DSP volume control as the master.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## falcon

subterFUSE said:


> Digital signals are normally sent at 0 dB FS so there should be no need to adjust sensitivity.
> 
> Some sources have digital outputs with variable volume, but it's still best to run them at full and use the DSP volume control as the master.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I bought this thing awhile back and got the sound to a decent place. But I haven't touched it in quite awhile and have forgotten everything (the little) I have learned!


----------



## subterFUSE

The real reason for the digital volume input level control is when you have multiple sources. Let's say you have an analog source and when the master DSP volume is at 75% that analog source is a good listening volume. Then you switch to digital and it's loud as hell and blows your ears out. The digital input level control is helpful here to set your sources to be of equal volume at the same master volume level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

davewpy said:


> Yes, on slot 1 memory, if you turn it back on, it sounds correct. But connect PC-Tool and load the same slot that was loaded and everything would sound weird again.
> 
> The same behaviour can be replicated offline - turn allpass control on, show your phase plots, load the same profile and your phase plots changes.
> 
> I believe this is only happening on systems that are using phase alignment.


So regarding this problem 4.2b was released. They are looking into the other problem that I reported.

I'm surprised no one heard this.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## brumledb

davewpy said:


> So regarding this problem 4.2b was released. They are looking into the other problem that I reported.
> 
> I'm surprised no one heard this.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk




So 4.2b did correct the phase issue? I was using the previous version and just figured out that the polarity inversion was reverting back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brumledb

brumledb said:


> So 4.2b did correct the phase issue? I was using the previous version and just figured out that the polarity inversion was reverting back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Software version 4.20b DID correct the problem with the polarity button. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davewpy

brumledb said:


> So 4.2b did correct the phase issue? I was using the previous version and just figured out that the polarity inversion was reverting back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## 01LSi

Have a problem. My pre amp voltage is either too high or too low for the input sensitivity options. 

I have 2 pre amplifier channels that *each* measure 536mV - 791mV. Which input am I supposed to use on the Pro?? See this youtube video for my measurement test (I used speaker wire to RCA adapters on the pre amp harness)

The AUX RCA input jumper for G&H says it will accept 250mV-500mV. I am over 500mV per channel.

The rest of the RCA inputs will accept 2Volts - 4Volts. I am way under 2 Volts for each channel.

Am I getting less voltage by using these speaker wire to RCA adapters? Do I need to buy a line driver before sending it to the DSP? Should I leave it as speaker wire? What are you guys doing in a situation like mine?


----------



## bbfoto

Bdubz said:


> Have a problem. My pre amp voltage is either too high or too low for the input sensitivity options.
> 
> I have 2 pre amplifier channels that *each* measure 536mV - 791mV. Which input am I supposed to use on the Pro?? See this youtube video for my measurement test (I used speaker wire to RCA adapters on the pre amp harness)
> 
> The AUX RCA input jumper for G&H says it will accept 250mV-500mV. I am over 500mV per channel.
> 
> The rest of the RCA inputs will accept 2Volts - 4Volts. I am way under 2 Volts for each channel.
> 
> Am I getting less voltage by using these speaker wire to RCA adapters? Do I need to buy a line driver before sending it to the DSP? Should I leave it as speaker wire? What are you guys doing in a situation like mine?




First off, make sure that any Test Tones that you use are LOSSLESS, NON-COMPRESSED Audio Files such as WAV or ALAC. Do not use MP3 or AAC files or any type of Lossy/Compressed file (especially for Pink Noise tracks).

IMO, it would be better to use a 1kHz Pure Sine Wave to measure the preamp output level. For the particular Test Tone that you are using, you also need to know what reference level it is at. Is it a -0dB, -3dB, -6dB, etc Test Tone??? FYI, 0dB is considered absolute "Maximum Level". The -3dB, -6dB etc allow a bit of headroom or "cushion".


The JL Audio Speaker Wire to RCA adapter plugs do not reduce or alter the signal voltage level in any significant way. (AFAIK, they do not have resistors and are not attenuated).

EDIT: Sorry, I did not read the full Description in your YouTube video regarding your OEM HU's constant preamp output level.

If you find that using a -0dB 1kHz Sine Wave Test Tone increases your preamp output voltage to read at or over 2V, then set the jumpers for G&H on the AUX input RCAs appropriately.


----------



## banshee28

This may be only on the helix DSP/Amps but on a P SIX DSP MK2 is anyone familiar with the SQ vs SPL setting for the output channels? The SPL setting gets louder, but not sure how that works. Is it simply increasing gain, EQ, is the distortion a bit higher? 

I just noticed this yesterday doing some tunning and looking at all the options with the PC-Tool.


----------



## 2DEEP2

davewpy said:


> So regarding this problem 4.2b was released. They are looking into the other problem that I reported.
> 
> I'm surprised no one heard this.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


I had the phase flip problem. Everything is in phase, power down and turn on again and the system is out of phase.

What was the other problem you reported?

Right now I'm dealing with output clipping regardless input level.


----------



## davewpy

2DEEP2 said:


> I had the phase flip problem. Everything is in phase, power down and turn on again and the system is out of phase.
> 
> What was the other problem you reported?
> 
> Right now I'm dealing with output clipping regardless input level.


Analog input?

The other problem was profiles saved in the director not loading correctly.

Only on phase aligned systems.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2DEEP2

davewpy said:


> Analog input?
> 
> The other problem was profiles saved in the director not loading correctly.
> 
> Only on phase aligned systems.


Thanks,

Optical Input.

My car is torn apart right now, but once I get it together I'm going to use different optical inputs to verify it's not my source unit. I've done this before and found no issues with my source unit.


----------



## davewpy

Some optical signals are not direct via internal I2S or SPDIF. There might be some form of processing on the digital domain that brings the level up. If your HU is volume controllable that might be the issue.

Read that there is some mechanism that prevents clipping that is on by default on the DSP. But I maybe wrong.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


----------



## gumbeelee

I have been meaning to ask this question for awhile, just always forget. I am wondering if anyone else has this same issue. I am running my ipad straight into my helix dsp via hec usb audio and I am also running my siriusxm portable satellite radio into the helix via rca. When I am listening to my ipad and have to stop and turn my truck off and start it back, I always have to reset my helix. Basically I have to recycle the power before I have sound again. If I am listening to Satellite radio and have to stop it will start playing when I crank my truck back up without recyling the power. So basically what I am saying is I have to restart my Helix each time If I listening to my ipad and have to stop but I dont have to restart it when listening to satellite radio. Also my iPad is my headunit btw if that would change anything. Anyone else have this problem with having to restart the Helix?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

Anyone else noticing on current revision input EQ causes a software crash?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## falcon

Maybe this has been discussed earlier in the thread...if so, my apologies. What does this mean?

The keyboard shortcut “r” has been added to the Main screen to import a “Room EQ Wizard” specific EQ coefficients file for the selected channel.

That was in the 4.20a release notes. Does that mean the auto-EQ settings in REW can be done automatically?

Second question. I haven't bothered to try the input EQ...what would the advantage be if I am using only a iPhone through the HEC USB as a source? Would it flatten the acoustical response before doing final EQ? Does this mean I have less adjusting to do to the final EQ and freeing up more parametric bands possibly?


----------



## lashlee

Yes, the R button allows the settings that REW has determined to be written to the channel that you have selected at that time. It's handy but not perfect. You still have to do the work in REW to get it to work correctly, while still applying some common sense.

As for the input EQ, I would recommend you verifying there is any EQ already applied (on the input signal side) that you need to counteract.


----------



## falcon

lashlee said:


> Yes, the R button allows the settings that REW has determined to be written to the channel that you have selected at that time. It's handy but not perfect. You still have to do the work in REW to get it to work correctly, while still applying some common sense.
> 
> As for the input EQ, I would recommend you verifying there is any EQ already applied (on the input signal side) that you need to counteract.


Thanks. I played around with it last night but couldn't figure out how to make it work.

How do you save the EQ settings in REW such that they can be imported into the Helix?

Edit: Yes, Google is my friend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSn6EEKbmQU


----------



## dengland

dengland said:


> Has there been any discussion about Audiotec incorporating the ability import filter coefficients generated from an audio tool (e.g. REW)? I believe the miniDSP has this ability.
> 
> I have been playing lately with autoEQ inside of REW. If I let it, REW will use a fair number of filters. Manually adjusting the frequency, gain, and Q based on what REW generates is a bit of effort as a play with different configurations.





BlackHHR said:


> Not that I am aware of at this time. I just do not see them incorporating another companies software into their software. But I could be wrong.





> *4.20a Big Usability-Update:*
> 
> 
> The keyboard shortcut “r” has been added to the Main screen to import a “Room EQ Wizard” specific EQ coefficients file for the selected channel.


Thanks Audiotec!

Now I just need to go through the finger crossing task of upgrading the Director and the DSP to the latest SW.


----------



## falcon

dengland said:


> Thanks Audiotec!
> 
> Now I just need to go through the finger crossing task of upgrading the Director and the DSP to the latest SW.


It's not as great as first appears. Unless there is a way around it, you are allowed one import of filter coefficients. Meaning if you measure after initial adjustment and need more, it will not allow another import.


----------



## m7olb

Hello , I have a problem with my helix DSP mk1 .

After the connection of power , ground , rem in & out , I'm not getting any light in status led , my amps are not working .

My remote in comes from ignition key remote wire 
My remote out goes to my 3 amps 

I have installed DSP PC took version 4.2 in Windows 10 , after following the manual I still cannot get the unit to work ( establishing connection , then disconnected ) , but the software runs only in demo mode.

My tablet Samsung is connected to USB HEC card 

I have updated the director to version 1.7 the director is successfully updated but still showing no unit was found . 

Please advise , thanks again


----------



## lasakro

m7olb said:


> After the connection of power , ground , rem in & out , I'm not getting any light in status led , my amps are not working .


On my DSP.2 the status light is green when the unit is on. Only then can I connect. Maybe a stupid question but did you check for voltage at the input connector for both power and remote in reference to that ground at the connector?


----------



## lasakro

My turn please 

I just upgraded from 4.10b to 4.20b. My laptop is limited to 1366x768. Is there any way to make the RTA window slightly smaller. It will reduce in size but then stops. All I need is a touch smaller.

"4.10d	
The minimum window height has been fixed to allow a full screen view of the software on screens with a maximum vertical resolution of 768 pixels."

Above from the release notes doesn't make since it seems to have hurt me.

Well back to tuning....

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## dengland

lasakro said:


> My turn please
> 
> I just upgraded from 4.10b to 4.20b. My laptop is limited to 1366x768. Is there any way to make the RTA window slightly smaller. It will reduce in size but then stops. All I need is a touch smaller.
> 
> "4.10d
> The minimum window height has been fixed to allow a full screen view of the software on screens with a maximum vertical resolution of 768 pixels."
> 
> Above from the release notes doesn't make since it seems to have hurt me.
> 
> Well back to tuning....
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone!


I have gotten around this by dragging the windows toolbar to be on the right side of the laptop screen. I then maximize the application. If I am using REW at the same time, I use the taskbar to swtich back and forth between the apps.

Merry Christmas back to you!


----------



## lasakro

dengland said:


> I have gotten around this ...


Thanks for the work around.


----------



## vdigiorgio

Hey Everyone.
Just updated my software from 4.06 to 4.20.. I have a DSP PRO mk1
when i connected the dsp to my computer it didn't ask me to update.. so im a bit confused..
Should it not have automatically gave me the option to update the dsp unit...

also downloaded the new director update, deleted all the previous drivers and update before i started, then put the director in update mode and started the app.. after . the updater finished it gave me an error code and now i cant get the the director to power up at all.. 
any suggestions???
thanks


----------



## jbeez

So, something changed recently and my sound output dropped quite a bit. I have to turn the vol all the way up to hear it. It's either 1 of 2 things in my opinion... first my setup is an ipad mini4 -> camera connection kit -> usb to dsp pro mk2 HEC input.
So either an apple update somehow lowered the sound volume in some way? Not sure how that could happen. Or I noticed a new option in the dsp tool software, "digital clipping protection". I'm wondering if this digital clipping protection has reduced the outputs of my dsp so all my amp gains are now too low.

Anyone know anything about this "digital clipping protection"?


----------



## Brian c

Hey guys and gals,
Installing a mk2 and looking for a laptop. This will be my first laptop so by no means I am a computer guru. Can someone steer me the right direction. I would like to download the Helix software and use it without having to make big changes on the laptop itself. This is one that I have picked out. Hopefully screen size and resolution will make it easy to read with my aging eyeballs. Thanks for any recommendations. 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-17-...ffcode=pg198981&ksdevice=m&lsft=ref:212,loc:2


----------



## jbeez

Brian c said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> Installing a mk2 and looking for a laptop. This will be my first laptop so by no means I am a computer guru. Can someone steer me the right direction. I would like to download the Helix software and use it without having to make big changes on the laptop itself. This is one that I have picked out. Hopefully screen size and resolution will make it easy to read with my aging eyeballs. Thanks for any recommendations.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-17-...ffcode=pg198981&ksdevice=m&lsft=ref:212,loc:2


Can't tell if that has it or not, but I recommend one with a backlit keyboard. I have a little temporary laptop im using right now with no backlit keyboard and it sucks in the car. I was just going to start looking for a replacement myself. Probably an ultrabook w/ an ssd


----------



## jbeez

jbeez said:


> So, something changed recently and my sound output dropped quite a bit. I have to turn the vol all the way up to hear it. It's either 1 of 2 things in my opinion... first my setup is an ipad mini4 -> camera connection kit -> usb to dsp pro mk2 HEC input.
> So either an apple update somehow lowered the sound volume in some way? Not sure how that could happen. Or I noticed a new option in the dsp tool software, "digital clipping protection". I'm wondering if this digital clipping protection has reduced the outputs of my dsp so all my amp gains are now too low.
> 
> Anyone know anything about this "digital clipping protection"?


To answer my own question since I just figured out what was going on, incase anyone else is having an issue....

When I updated I flashed a config file to a different location(#5 vs #1). When I did this it changed the behavior a little. When you use a slot other than #1, the aux/hec volume will reset to 50% on startup. When I was using the #1 slot I kept it at 100% and just articulated the master volume.

I was basically -30dB down on volume, so after I figured out what was going on no issues.


----------



## dengland

Brian c said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> Installing a mk2 and looking for a laptop. This will be my first laptop so by no means I am a computer guru. Can someone steer me the right direction. I would like to download the Helix software and use it without having to make big changes on the laptop itself. This is one that I have picked out. Hopefully screen size and resolution will make it easy to read with my aging eyeballs. Thanks for any recommendations.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-17-...ffcode=pg198981&ksdevice=m&lsft=ref:212,loc:2





jbeez said:


> Can't tell if that has it or not, but I recommend one with a backlit keyboard. I have a little temporary laptop im using right now with no backlit keyboard and it sucks in the car. I was just going to start looking for a replacement myself. Probably an ultrabook w/ an ssd


I went with a 11" Dell Refub and stuck an SSD in it. (Dell Outlet Inspiron 11 - 3168 2-in-1 Laptop Windows 10 Home 64bit English). It was less than $200 and it fits in the center console of my truck. That is where I keep it. It has the Helix SW and REW on it. The display is 11.6 inch HD(1366 x 768) LED-Backlit Touch Display. The only compromise is a vertical resolution of 768 means I have to have the task bar on the right of the screen versus the normal spot along the bottom to see everything with the Helix SW. I like having the touch screen rather than relying on the trackpad. The Intel [email protected] and 4GB of RAM is fine. The SSD I put in was like 50% of the Dell itself since I went with an Samsung 850 EVO. You could do it cheaper.


----------



## jbeez

dengland said:


> I went with a 11" Dell Refub and stuck an SSD in it. (Dell Outlet Inspiron 11 - 3168 2-in-1 Laptop Windows 10 Home 64bit English). It was less than $200 and it fits in the center console of my truck. That is where I keep it. It has the Helix SW and REW on it. The display is 11.6 inch HD(1366 x 768) LED-Backlit Touch Display. The only compromise is a vertical resolution of 768 means I have to have the task bar on the right of the screen versus the normal spot along the bottom to see everything with the Helix SW. I like having the touch screen rather than relying on the trackpad. The Intel [email protected] and 4GB of RAM is fine. The SSD I put in was like 50% of the Dell itself since I went with an Samsung 850 EVO. You could do it cheaper.


My current asus tp200s is also 1366 x 768, a little annoying. The keyboard isnt great either imo, chiclet style buttons.... very portable! Slow as dirt convertable with only 60gb usable hd space, havent even looked into upgrading the hd i just want to replace the whole unit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bonesb

Salami said:


> Just to clear, I want to make I understand correctly before I make a purchase. In the example above if the BT source was turned off will the switch happen automatically?
> 
> 
> 
> Another question but directly related to my system. I want to use the factory head unit which will feed speaker level input into the DSP Pro. I believe it can be set to priority. I also would like to use the HEX USB with a DAP.
> 
> My cell phone is connected via BT to the factory head unit for hands free calling. If a call came in through the phone/head unit would it trigger a switch automatically to the speaker level inputs so I could take the call? Or do I need to manually switch? If it switched automatically what happens after the call ends? Will it switch back to the previously playing DAP?
> 
> Also if the head unit was off and I turn on the DAP will it switch automatically to that input or do I have to switch it manually?
> 
> I hoping this DSP will help me solve my integration issues with the stock head.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rich



Did you get an answer to this? I am also looking at getting the Helix DSP MK2 with HEC HD USB, Will it automatically switch to the HU to which my phone is paired via BT, If I get a call? How is this setup done.


----------



## falcon

bonesb said:


> Did you get an answer to this? I am also looking at getting the Helix DSP MK2 with HEC HD USB, Will it automatically switch to the HU to which my phone is paired via BT, If I get a call? How is this setup done.


This works in my car but I am not sure it will work in all. The HU in my vehicle has a volume control for the phone that is only operable when the phone is functioning, which starts as soon as it rings. As long as the phone volume is higher than "0" it works as you desire.

Here is how I have it set up: 

I give the signal priority to the factory HU and set the sensitivity and delay low. I have the Director output set to Digital or HEC (whatever you are using) permanently. If I shut off the factory HU or turn it all the way down, I automatically hear the optical or USB channel without touching the Director. If I want to use factory HU, I turn it on or up. The Helix automatically switches to the HU without touching the Director. When a phone call comes in, or the navigation system on the phone sends a signal via bluetooth, I hear it over the car system flawlessly, without touching the Director.


----------



## casey

edit...im just slow


----------



## S6Per

Hi All!
Wondering if someone has seen this before / can help. My Director, installed for 1.5 years, seems to be giving up the ghost in terms of the display. It's gotten worse over time (over the last probably 6 months) and it's gotten to the point where it's really hard to read the buttons. Any clue if this is anything other than hardware going bad? It's not installed near a heat source or anything like that.

Here's a link to a video I took today to show you see what I mean: https://photos.smugmug.com/S6/Inter...2a57339c/1280/Director Display Issue-1280.mp4 

Thanks in advance!

-Per


----------



## toneloc2

mine shows the same symptoms especially when its cold..


----------



## S6Per

Interesting. And it's not anywhere near cold here right now (video was taken in ~60F).


----------



## jsnstanley

My Director started increasing volume by itself sporadicly. The display still looks fine.


----------



## D34dl1fter

jsnstanley said:


> My Director started increasing volume by itself sporadicly. The display still looks fine.


Damn that is not a good thing at all! 

I'd be pissed if I blew up a driver due to that! 

The director is such a touchy product


----------



## gumbeelee

S6Per said:


> Hi All!
> 
> Wondering if someone has seen this before / can help. My Director, installed for 1.5 years, seems to be giving up the ghost in terms of the display. It's gotten worse over time (over the last probably 6 months) and it's gotten to the point where it's really hard to read the buttons. Any clue if this is anything other than hardware going bad? It's not installed near a heat source or anything like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a link to a video I took today to show you see what I mean: https://photos.smugmug.com/S6/Inter...2a57339c/1280/Director Display Issue-1280.mp4
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> -Per




Mine has always looked the same. My contact audiotech fisher and see if they can do anything for you


Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk


----------



## S6Per

gumbeelee said:


> Mine has always looked the same. My contact audiotech fisher and see if they can do anything for you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk




Yeah, good call. Sent them a mail, will let folks know what I find out. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## falcon

For the price they charge on the Director, they had better fix any problems. My display has never looked great, but it isn't a matter of something being wrong - it's just cheap.


----------



## captainobvious

S6Per said:


> Hi All!
> Wondering if someone has seen this before / can help. My Director, installed for 1.5 years, seems to be giving up the ghost in terms of the display. It's gotten worse over time (over the last probably 6 months) and it's gotten to the point where it's really hard to read the buttons. Any clue if this is anything other than hardware going bad? It's not installed near a heat source or anything like that.
> 
> Here's a link to a video I took today to show you see what I mean: https://photos.smugmug.com/S6/Inter...2a57339c/1280/Director Display Issue-1280.mp4
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Per



A friend of mine had the exact same thing happen, however his was new. This is a bad display. In his case, his dealer swapped it out with a new one after contacting AF. If you purchased through a dealer, try having them contact AF to see if it can be replaced.


----------



## S6Per

FYI, they're starting to do repairs in US apparently, via 'MSC America' in Mesa, AZ (who are the N. American distributor for all AF brands, I'm told). My Director is on its way there and I should hear back from them on Tuesday. Currently no idea if it's repair worthy or if I'd be charged for it. I'll report back when I know more.


----------



## 01LSi

What about fixing turn off pops?

And do I put the remote wire on the helix or the fix82?

Factory stereo - factory amplifier - fix82 optical out - optical into helix - RCA and remote to amplifier 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## S6Per

S6Per said:


> FYI, they're starting to do repairs in US apparently, via 'MSC America' in Mesa, AZ (who are the N. American distributor for all AF brands, I'm told). My Director is on its way there and I should hear back from them on Tuesday. Currently no idea if it's repair worthy or if I'd be charged for it. I'll report back when I know more.


To close this one out: MSC ( specifically @dobslob here) repaired the screen under warranty, and for a nice touch: replaced the default logo with 4 Audi rings  Works perfectly and I'm back in business. Thanks, Doug!


----------



## Bnlcmbcar

On rare occasion I notice a symbol pop up on my Director on the right side of the screen (pics attached). The symbol is an “!” inside of a triangle. Usually powering off and back on again makes the symbol disappear.

Does anyone know what it means?


----------



## captainobvious

I reported a couple issues to Audiotec Fisher and am waiting on their response. I wanted to share it here with you all so you are aware.

DSP PC Tool 4.25B (The problem also existed with previous 4.20b)
Director firmware 1.72

This problem happens intermittently. It does not happen every time. After plugging the laptop in to the usb port on the Director and then opening DSP PC Tool, the active preset loses all of its programming including crossovers, time alignment, eq, gain level or other settings. I’ve had this happen many times. It also did this with the previous PC Tool version 4.20b as well.

Here is a video of the problem: 







Also, when I recently removed the older Director Updater installer so that I could put the 1.72 version on the unit, I somehow ended up losing all of my more recent dsp tune files (afpx). I can’t find any afpx files on my laptop from 2017 and newer and I had at least 50 files on there for my competition vehicle as well as several customer cars. Any idea why that might have occurred?


Finally, I’m not sure if this is “normal operation” or not, but also in the DSP PC Tool inside the DCM Menu… when you enable the digital clipping protection it can cause the sound to cut out and get choppy at low listening volumes. I think this is more an issue of signal voltage falling below a threshold. When the digital clipping protection is disabled it no longer cuts out parts of the sound at low volume. For reference, I am NOT using a digital input, I use analog RCA inputs from my source unit to feed the dsp.

Here is a short video I made of this problem as well. I’m sorry for the low volume of the recording. You will need to turn your speaker or headphone volume up loudly. What you will notice is I am using an Iasca track from their test disc. It is a male voice talking giving instructions. At low volume when the digital clipping protection is enabled his voice cuts in and out. As soon as it is disabled (and still at the same volume setting), his voice is normal with no cutting out. This seems like a signal threshold issue when the protection is enabled as once you increase the volume a little louder it plays clean with no cutting in and out. This is only at low volume.


----------



## jbeez

The afpx files are semi-hidden from my understanding. Here is the path on my computer, adjust as necessary,

C:\Users\MYUSERNAME\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\Audiotec Fischer\ATF DSP PC-Tool 4.22a\


Regarding the losing the settings, my prior helix did that, I was able to correct it by doing a hard reset on the hardware. Josiah was a great help troubleshooting, I recommend reaching out to support if you haven't already(sorry if I missed that?).


----------



## captainobvious

jbeez said:


> The afpx files are semi-hidden from my understanding. Here is the path on my computer, adjust as necessary,
> 
> C:\Users\MYUSERNAME\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\Audiotec Fischer\ATF DSP PC-Tool 4.22a\
> 
> 
> Regarding the losing the settings, my prior helix did that, I was able to correct it by doing a hard reset on the hardware. Josiah was a great help troubleshooting, I recommend reaching out to support if you haven't already(sorry if I missed that?).



Thanks- found the files with this.  Not sure why they weren't coming up. I searched the entire hard drive inclusive of hidden files and system files for any with a .afpx extension and these never showed up. Good to know.


----------



## jbeez

captainobvious said:


> Thanks- found the files with this.  Not sure why they weren't coming up. I searched the entire hard drive inclusive of hidden files and system files for any with a .afpx extension and these never showed up. Good to know.


IDK what changed, but I first found out about this with WinISD I copied files from an old computer and the custom driver files I made weren't there, went back on old pc and found them but it was really hidden well for no good reason? Found out recently ATF software was doing the same thing, so I just keep a note of where to look and i can manually grab them. 

It'd be nice if they had a location for those files outside of that hidden path, and maybe in a common path instead of one tied to the version, but its possible that with version upgrades they do some sort of conversion on the files and that's how they know it will work with the proper version of the sw, unsure.


----------



## dengland

jbeez said:


> It'd be nice if they had a location for those files outside of that hidden path, and maybe in a common path instead of one tied to the version, but its possible that with version upgrades they do some sort of conversion on the files and that's how they know it will work with the proper version of the sw, unsure.


Interesting thought.

Lately I have just been saving in the root directory of C:

The laptop is really only for tuning the car so there is not much competition.

I wish I knew why window 10 hates *.afpx


----------



## S6Per

I learned my lesson on leaving files stranded on a laptop when it crashed without backups. I now save in my OneDrive location so no matter what laptop I'm using, I'll have them available to me. Net/net: I highly recommend storing in some auto-backed up / cloud location.


----------



## sensarmy

I'm getting a 2015 Corolla Le and im looking to get some insight on oem intergration as ive only done installs with aftermarket HUs. I have a Helix DSP pro for processing, what are my options? Pretty vague but im a noob when it comes to this. Basically I'm trying to swap a 2 way active system from my older car to this one...


----------



## tripanazomi_1

Optical in problem ; 
I have a system sending optical to helix dsp pro mk2 when my amps start working 

No matter which mode I am , the source then changes automatically to optical 
this is ok 
but then I can not change it back to usb mode or hi level input mode . 

Either I need to close the optical unit or take or take the optical cable back 

I have a director updated to latest sw , but no matter how hard I change the input 
It returns back to optical source 

2- volume knob acts weird , 
it pumps the volume up hardly when I try to lower the volume ( especially if you play with the volume know 3-4 times ) 
Afraid that this would ruin speakers

Is this related to director or optical in ? 

Is there any setting / update on helix SW
To adjust theese problems


----------



## bonesb

Is this I/O mappings correct? Can someone help me understand this? My subwoofer is hardly beating and I am not sure if this has something to do with it. My main source is my phone connected to the HEC USB module. Thats what I want to play(Tidal)


----------



## dsquared

Pictures are very unclear so I can’t help with.
Is it just the subs or the whole system


----------



## bonesb

Its Just the sub, but the whole systems sounds so bad, like bluetooth speakers. Attaching AS PDF


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## bonesb

Anyone?


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## subterFUSE

bonesb said:


> Anyone?




Need more info.

What are your sources?

What are your outputs from the DSP? ie Front tweeters, mids, midbass, sub, etc...
2 way? 3 way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bonesb

subterFUSE said:


> Need more info.
> 
> What are your sources?
> 
> What are your outputs from the DSP? ie Front tweeters, mids, midbass, sub, etc...
> 2 way? 3 way?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



*Source:*
My Phone connected to the HEC USB. I have the HU, But I am not worried about this. 

*Outputs:*
*Front 3-way:* 
DSP --> GZUA 4.150SQ-Plus Amp -->Tweeter and Midrange (Audio Frog GB10+GB25)
DSP -->GZNA 4330XII Amp -->Front Mid-woofer (Stevens Audio SA6CS)

*Rear 2-way passive (shares the amp with front mid-woofer)*
DSP --> GZNA 4330XII Amp --> Rear 2-way Passive GZUC 650SQX

*Subwoofer*
DSP --> GZUA 2.250SQ Amp --> Subwoofer GZUW 12SQX


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## dsquared

bonesb said:


> Anyone?


If you're using the HEC module you have to configure the routing also. 
Click I/O, Click HEC/AUX routing to do so.


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## bonesb

So looks like we have figured out the issues, but still wondering why it is happening.

My amp is a GZUA 2.250 SQ when bridged provides an output of 1200 W at 2 Ohms. My sub is a dual 2 ohm GZUW 1212SQX which is in serial connection at 4ohms. The speaker has an RMS of 600W so I believe the sub and amps match at speaker in 4 ohm impedance. To test we connected a higher power amp to the same sub and things changed. So I am wondering why this is happening? Why will the DSP reduce the rms output from the amp to the speaker? If i connect the amp and subwoofer without the DSP it works perfectly, with the DSP I have to pair the speaker with a higher power amp or I have to change the sub to a 2ohm subwoofer and its fine. SO I am a bit confused. 

Is it possible I can still keep my old amp and sub combination and still get things working?


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## Souths1der

I use the HEC-USB interface, and also had low bass output overall, not just to the sub. I ended up adding a Shelf EQ on the AUX/HEC input. I believe i have it set for everything below 300Hz with a +4. Really brought the bass to life.

Overall I'm not really happy with the HEC-USB interface. Beside needing this shelf filter, It can lose connection randomly and I have to unplug -> plug the cable back in. Sometimes the phone doesn't recognize the cable getting plugged in. I have an Android, maybe that is the problem. Who knows. But the card was expensive, and my factory amp is really noisy and difficult to merge its outputs to a single signal because the front channels are amplified and the rear are not. So annoying....


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## SkizeR

bonesb said:


> So looks like we have figured out the issues, but still wondering why it is happening.
> 
> My amp is a GZUA 2.250 SQ when bridged provides an output of 1200 W at 2 Ohms. My sub is a dual 2 ohm GZUW 1212SQX which is in serial connection at 4ohms. The speaker has an RMS of 600W so I believe the sub and amps match at speaker in 4 ohm impedance. To test we connected a higher power amp to the same sub and things changed. So I am wondering why this is happening? Why will the DSP reduce the rms output from the amp to the speaker? If i connect the amp and subwoofer without the DSP it works perfectly, with the DSP I have to pair the speaker with a higher power amp or I have to change the sub to a 2ohm subwoofer and its fine. SO I am a bit confused.
> 
> Is it possible I can still keep my old amp and sub combination and still get things working?


Seems like your not setting up the processor correctly. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## preston

This seemed like the most recent/relevant thread to ask a question
I have the older standard Helix DSP, although I am running the latest software (v4.0 ?).

This might be a dumb question but is there a way I can replace the USB cable with a bluetooth adapter on the DSP ? I don't want to stream anything I just want to be able to tune without connecting to a cable.

I see USB/bluetooth adapters but they seem to be for adding bluetooth to a computer that doesn't have it. I'm looking for something that would actually transmit/receive bluetooth on the DSP. 

As far as I understand it the BT adapter that Helix sells is for streaming input not tuning ? I have to check but I don't think my DSP will support that module anyway, I guess I"m thinking of a generic USB/bluetooth interface dongle ?


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## dobslob

There is no capability to tune wirelessly with any of the Audiotec Fischer products currently. This may change soon. If it does it is likely to be something that is connected through the HEC/MEC slot. Nothing is confirmed at this point, but it is definitely being worked on.


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## SPAZ

If extra channels are not needed is going from the Helix Pro MK1 over to the Helix Pro MK2 a worthwhile upgrade? Any sound quality differences? Thanks


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## Eddiefromcali

Hi guys, first time Helix product user and I'm in need of some help.

I have a Kenwood X997 feeding A-D on my DSP MK1. Sub is not being fed to DSP. 

Problem is, I have no audio from the DSP. Knukonceptz rcas are new and hooked up to a DD A4. Amp is not in protect and wire were good before going with the DSP (Was running active off the HU/DD Xovers). 

What am I missing here? I do have a Director but I unplugged it just in case that was my issue. 

Pics to come from a senior member


I'm used to the RF DSR-1 user interface which is way watered down compared to this, so take it easy on me. lol


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## miniSQ

Eddiefromcali said:


> Hi guys, first time Helix product user and I'm in need of some help.
> 
> I have a Kenwood X997 feeding A-D on my DSP MK1. Sub is not being fed to DSP.
> 
> Problem is, I have no audio from the DSP. Knukonceptz rcas are new and hooked up to a DD A4. Amp is not in protect and wire were good before going with the DSP (Was running active off the HU/DD Xovers).
> 
> What am I missing here? I do have a Director but I unplugged it just in case that was my issue.
> 
> Pics to come from a senior member
> 
> 
> I'm used to the RF DSR-1 user interface which is way watered down compared to this, so take it easy on me. lol


the 2 easiest things to get out of the way.

Did you load a set up file into the software in your car? without one you will get silence.

Is the Mute on? 

post a pic of your matrix if you can.


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## Eddiefromcali

This work?


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## toneloc2

any way you can take pics without glare and maybe straight on pics.


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## Eddiefromcali

toneloc2 said:


> any way you can take pics without glare and maybe straight on pics.


Thi k I got it. I deactivated the Director option and got audio all around. Not sure if it had vol all way down or mute was selected on that.


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## Tallguy08

I have a question about the DAC configuration option in the extended features menu in the DSP tools. It has an option to change the filter in PCM mode (example: slow sharp, slow, etc). I am currently using RCA inputs. Does this feature apply to RCA inputs? I change the options but it sounds the same.


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## Bnlcmbcar

What are the normal operating temperatures for Helix DSP Pro 2? At what temperature should I be alarmed?


In the latest firmware for the Director Controller there is a Sync Setting (Menu>System>Sync Setting). Does anyone know what this setting is altering exactly. Is it a delay for the Director to attempt syncing to a DSP once the remote has power?


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## backousis

hi guys.
i have an old helix dsp with pc tools 3.
if i update at pc tools 4 will my tuning savings work
or i need to to everything again?


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## dobslob

As long as the tunes are saved in your computer they will be able to be put right back into the DSP. Although it is supposed to save the tunes when updating, I have only seen this actually happen in the newest versions.

All of the settings that you have saved will be compatible with the new software and will reload fine. Then you will get to enjoy all of the new software features.


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## backousis

thats great thank you


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