# Curious to know Why no love for the Hertz Mille speakers?...



## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

I have the Hertz Mille speakers in my Jeep GC. They sound amazing (to me)! But I get the sense on these forums that there isn't much love for any of the Hertz series. WHY? I get that they might be a little over priced and the relation to Audison doesn't help. But help me understand. I'm open to all ideas because I'm working with SkizeR in upgrading most of my components and I'd like to make the right decisions.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Oh there are some that love them. They don’t come out to play, because there is so much Hertz hate out here lol. But I absolutely loved my Mille Legends....I had 0 complaints. Only reason I changed (to Audiofrog & Audible Physics) is because my curiosity got the best of me. Once you pay too much attention to “forums”, u start to second guess ur gear and u want to try what “everyone else” is trying. The Mille’s are no slouch. Perfect if u want SQ with some “Umph” behind it. 

If we get into Mille Pro....I never heard them so can’t comment. 

Fun fact: Audison is actually supposed to be the “better” of the 2 (even tho they’re together)...but I actually tried the Audison Voce lineup and I didn’t like it compared to my Mille Legends. 

Honestly man, it’s all about personal preference. If u have a capable DSP..........as long as you buy a respectable set of speakers, u can tweak to get the sound u want. 


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

MrGreen83 said:


> Oh there are some that love them. They don’t come out to play, because there is so much Hertz hate out here lol. But I absolutely loved my Mille Legends....I had 0 complaints. Only reason I changed (to Audiofrog & Audible Physics) is because my curiosity got the best of me. Once you pay too much attention to “forums”, u start to second guess ur gear and u want to try what “everyone else” is trying. The Mille’s are no slouch. Perfect if u want SQ with some “Umph” behind it.
> 
> If we get into Mille Pro....I never heard them so can’t comment.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more! The Mille's just seem to be more "musical" for my taste (if that makes any sense). My preference has always been the Mille Legend over the Voce. The newer Mill Pro series doesn't interest me. Nick just replaced my Bit One with the Helix Pro MK2 DSP and installed a Kenwood DDX9905S H/U. What a difference! Really makes these Mille's come alive. Now on to replacing the Hertz amps.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

If you want to speak specifically about the mille line, my answer (which ive already told you in person) is without any objective data unfortunately, but a lot of first hand experience with the brand as well as more hands on experience with other drivers in their respective categories than anyone else i know. This day in age, they just dont stack up. 10 years ago? sure. today, no. Their overall quality started going down after the second version of mille's. Overall consensus and first hand experience is that the first version milles were better than the second version. After the second version, there has been no innovation besides ditching the high energy line, and replacing it with a cheaper mille line (thats actually worse than the previous high energy line). I feel as if it were a marketing tactic to make customers feel as if theyre getting something really good and thinking "oh sick! Milles!".. aka, riding on their legacy while having the highest markup of any "high end" brand ive seen. Dont get me wrong, theyre not bad by any means. But they are also not the best value or best performing in their respective categories in my opinion. 

As far as the energy and deici line, they just flat out suck lol.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Still use them, and have for a while now. I don't think I would say there is "no love" for them.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

I absolutely loved my Milles. I had a 3 way active set up in my F150 on Mosconi AS amps and a Mosconi 6to8 dsp. Now I am running a 3 way active set of Audiofrog GB series (10,25,60) in my escalade on Mosconi Zero amps with a Helix Mk2 dsp . I just had the Escalade tuned today and to be honest as of right now hands down I liked the sound of my Milles a lot more. I use the same installer and tuner for all of my systems and they both agree that the Milles sounded much better. Now obviously it’s a different vehicle and I had the milles in custom pillars so location was a bit different but for me the Audiofrogs haven’t lived up to the hype. Just my opinion


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

I’d be very interested in someone doing an A/B test with the same source, same car, with same amps, same DSP, using same locations...and compare the Hertz Mille (3rd generation) 2-way drivers against maybe 2 other brands. 

And after tuning, see who could tell which drivers were playing. And also, if they could tell me what “discrepancies” they heard in the Mille’s that couldn’t be fixed with tuning. 

Until then, it’s he said she said, with no documented evidence to support the “Hertz Mille Legend bashing” 


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

I gotta say that I really enjoy my 2015 Jeep GC. Very masculine looking. Very capable SUV. Are there better SUV's on the market than the Jeep GC? Absolutely! Are there less expensive options (more bang for your buck)? Without a doubt there is! But they don't fit my personality and what I am looking for in an SUV. I've learned a couple of very important lessons in the 22 years I have been in the building supply industry... (1) Everybody's perception of value is different. (2) Never sell out of your own pockets. Car audio is not much different. We all know what they say about opinions!... Although I do greatly appreciate the advice and recommendations given by a person who's extremely talented, he's only one voice with one opinion. I'm looking to get multiple opinions from those who have first hand experience with these products. This is how I make my decisions.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

A friend and I went to an install shop to demo HAT SE, Audiofrog GB, Hertz Mille Legend on one of those sound boards. The Mille sounded best with the most balanced tone.

The frogs were muddy and warm, lacks detail.

The HATs were 2nd place imo. 


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

I’ve ran multiple sets of Hertz Milles throughout the years and currently i have the 3 way Af i mentioned earlier but I also have a Gb25 and Gb60 in my 17 Pacifica running off a bit ten and Audison Voce 5.1k. Same installer and tuner of course. I got all the Af stuff at once because of the hype and I’ve also ran Hertz Mille 2 way active off the same bit ten and 5.1k and still the milles sounded better to me in that application as well. Of course different vehicle but ive had both 2 and 3 way set ups of both and i still prefer the milles so far


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

My belief is that the Mille's are ideal for music where actual musicians play real instruments in their songs. For the noise they call music in today's era, maybe not so much... However, for the old school dance & hip hop of the 80's & 90's, the Mille's really perform well.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

There's just so much good stuff on the market these days it's hard for everyone to like 'one' brand or model.


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## Blu (Nov 3, 2008)

Just curious...

What other Brands/Product lines are on your shortlist, and have you had the opportunity to audition them?

If so what were your thoughts.


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

Blu said:


> Just curious...
> 
> What other Brands/Product lines are on your shortlist, and have you had the opportunity to audition them?
> 
> If so what were your thoughts.


Illusion Audio - Sounded great. But not worth switching to.
Focal - Great speakers @ a higher price point for the best SQ stuff.
Audio Frog - Definitely the front runner. Just didn't compare to the Mille's especially with the tweeters.


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## Rainstar (May 22, 2017)

tonynca said:


> A friend and I went to an install shop to demo HAT SE, Audiofrog GB, Hertz Mille Legend on one of those sound boards. The Mille sounded best with the most balanced tone.
> 
> The frogs were muddy and warm, lacks detail.
> 
> ...


those demo display boards do not represent a good way to have you judge what sounds better. often times its set up to be Biased towards one brand. Demo X brands from peoples vehicles that have done it right is a more correct way to judge drivers, and this is just doing it by ear.


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

The Mille Legend is vastly superior to the originals and V2. V2 to me was a downgrade, but the "Legend", when they became .3 was a lot of new technology and a lot of new capability, especially in the subwoofers and the 3".

As far as comparing them to Voce that is an entirely different pricepoint and design. The Mille Legend might be better compared to the Thesis line. Even so, the Hertz lineup is a market driven lineup and the Audison line is the engineers designing what they think is the best in their pursuit of sonic perfection.

I preferred the Legend 3 ways to the Thesis personally, but many felt the other way. That's why we have so many choices.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

Rainstar said:


> those demo display boards do not represent a good way to have you judge what sounds better. often times its set up to be Biased towards one brand. Demo X brands from peoples vehicles that have done it right is a more correct way to judge drivers, and this is just doing it by ear.




Not to be rude but that's bs man. You have more variables judging in a car than a board. What works for that car may not work for your car due to different surfaces. I think a test board is a very good indicator of how the speaker could perform. You're not including odd surfaces and you have a clear representation of how the speaker could sound. Sound board is not a perfect test but it's the most fair test unless the shop is crooked. You think those freq response graphs were made using someone's car? Nope. More likely in a controlled test environment. 


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## kumizi (Nov 30, 2018)

I have a 3 year old setup in my weekend car with Hertz Hi Energys. 

I was thinking about upgrading them and heard the same thing Skizer mentioned from two different shops: that the Mille Pro are actually worse than the old Hi Energy line and the Mille Legend are better but there are other options I should look at in that price range.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DanKind75 said:


> My belief is that the Mille's are ideal for music where actual musicians play real instruments in their songs. For the noise they call music in today's era, maybe not so much... However, for the old school dance & hip hop of the 80's & 90's, the Mille's really perform well.


dan, i'll explain to you why this is not the case on saturday. Short version is, speakers are dumb. meaning, they have no idea what source material is playing. They either play their dedicated passband accurately, or they dont. Then there are other factors which are most of my reasons for not suggesting them.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DanKind75 said:


> Illusion Audio - Sounded great. But not worth switching to.
> Focal - Great speakers @ a higher price point for the best SQ stuff.
> Audio Frog - Definitely the front runner. Just didn't compare to the Mille's especially with the tweeters.


to go off of this, my next question is where they all in the same environment, in their ideal enclosure, around the same time? or different cars/environments, and heard at different times?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Rainstar said:


> those demo display boards do not represent a good way to have you judge what sounds better. often times its set up to be Biased towards one brand. Demo X brands from peoples vehicles that have done it right is a more correct way to judge drivers, and this is just doing it by ear.


this. i could go on for days about why simple A/B comparisons arent really so simple after all


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

Guys... I get the sense that this is turning into a debate. This was not my intention. My question simply was "why no love for the Hertz Mille speakers". That's it. I absolutely love mine and they're not going anywhere. I've listened to other setups in different situations and different environments. I've decided that the Hertz Mille speakers are my go to speaker setup. Now as far as the amps & dsp are concerned... I've already switched out the Audison Bit One for the Helix Pro MK2 DSP. Now I plan on changing my Hertz HDP5 & HDP4 with the Mosconi Pro 5/30 & 4/10. This is my system of choice. This will be my ideal system. It may not work for someone else. But it works for ME! 

On another note, if speakers are really that "dumb", why is it that when I speak to a any given person in the car audio install business the first question they ask is "what type of music do you listen to"? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm really curious...


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

As to the speaker board mentioned above, I have seen shops that will mount their prime line at ear level, while mounting the others above, or below, etc... The relationship of the speaker to the listener remains a valid constant. And I would surmise that most audio shops use that effectively to steer a customer toward the premier line of audio speakers. Comparing a pair of speakers at ear level, and wider on the board; with another pair that is lower, and more inboard. would likely have a bias.


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## riceandpho (Dec 30, 2009)

i made the switch from focal 165 k2p to the hertz mille legends.
also did the passive thing for a while, well it sounds good to me with all the power i was sending from the rockford t600-2, it was well over 230w a channel.
focal sounded very live to me, then the hertz sounded smoother, when i did the active with the hertz, it sound even better. 
i know some might not agree with my ears, but it makes me happy.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DanKind75 said:


> On another note, if speakers are really that "dumb", why is it that when I speak to a any given person in the car audio install business the first question they ask is "what type of music do you listen to"? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm really curious...


Because they have no idea what they're talking about, or they're preying on your ignorance. Most likely a combination of both but mostly the former. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Because they have no idea what they're talking about, or they're preying on your ignorance. Most likely a combination of both but mostly the former.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


This.

"Those subs are for rap and electronic." I lol'd the first time a sales guy told me that.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

Yeah these types of threads are bound to instigate all sorts of arguments. I say just listen to a set of speakers and figure out what you like.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

DanKind75 said:


> On another note, if speakers are really that "dumb", why is it that when I speak to a any given person in the car audio install business the first question they ask is "what type of music do you listen to"? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm really curious...


There are 2 honest reasons they could ask this. One is because they want to know how big of a sub-bass stage to recommend. Also, because there's always a tradeoff between sound quality (THD/CSD/Tonality), price, output, ease of installation, etc, they might be trying to help you choose the best tradeoffs for your listening habits.


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

I am currently using mille 280.2 tweets and 1600.2 midbass with 700.3 midranges and I am pretty damn content with mine..... although I did get them at far better prices than the average person would pay at a shop. Do I think they are the be all,end all? Not at all, but like I have seen many people say before...It really comes down to proper tuning and such. The most important aspect of all though is the individual listener's perception and opinion vs. everyone else's.


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

sq2k1 said:


> I am currently using mille 280.2 tweets and 1600.2 midbass with 700.3 midranges and I am pretty damn content with mine..... although I did get them at far better prices than the average person would pay at a shop. Do I think they are the be all,end all? Not at all, but like I have seen many people say before...It really comes down to proper tuning and such. The most important aspect of all though is the individual listener's perception and opinion vs. everyone else's.


Exactly!... There's a lot of great products out there these days. The Hertz Mille's just so happen to be my preference. And it's nice to read that they're a lot of you who prefer them as well. It would be nice if they would get a little more positive attention they do now.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

I’m picking up a set of Gen 1 mlk2s on Monday and on the hunt for a ML 3000 sub for my ws6 build. I also have a 3 way set as well of the 3rd gen. I do love my Hertz ML’s lol


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

Just had some tuning done by Nick today. For just a two way system, these Mille's sound freakin awesome!!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DanKind75 said:


> Just had some tuning done by Nick today. For just a two way system, these Mille's sound freakin awesome!!!


They call me jesus for a reason.. i make miracles happen :laugh:


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

DanKind75 said:


> Just had some tuning done by Nick today. For just a two way system, these Mille's sound freakin awesome!!!


I know the feeling man. My tuner ( Steve Rodgers ) is amazing . He’s done multiple cars of mine and my 3way Mille was hands down the best I’ve heard.


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> They call me jesus for a reason.. i make miracles happen :laugh:


Someone needs a pin to deflate their head!...


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Add the 700.3’s in the pillars when u get the chance to.....you’ll love ur system even more. 


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

MrGreen83 said:


> Add the 700.3’s in the pillars when u get the chance to.....you’ll love ur system even more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ive told him this like 20 times but for some reason he keeps asking about amps first lol


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> ive told him this like 20 times but for some reason he keeps asking about amps first lol


Funny thing is I was thinking about the very same thing on my way home from you. I wouldn't be able to afford those amps for a while. The HDP's have performed pretty damn good. So I'm thinking we should do the three way first then do the amps when I could swing it. Damn that would sound so sweet!!!


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

Those 700.3s will make you never want a 2way again.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

rob3980 said:


> Those 700.3s will make you never want a 2way again.


I told this to Dan just today... "people are ****ing nuts to claim that 2 way setups are easier to make sound good vs 3 way setups." No. Just no.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

After you have had a properly tuned 3 way and you go back to a 2 way you are going to always feel like you are missing something.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

MrGreen83 said:


> Oh there are some that love them. They don’t come out to play, because there is so much Hertz hate out here lol. But I absolutely loved my Mille Legends....I had 0 complaints. Only reason I changed (to Audiofrog & Audible Physics) is because my curiosity got the best of me. Once you pay too much attention to “forums”, u start to second guess ur gear and u want to try what “everyone else” is trying. The Mille’s are no slouch. Perfect if u want SQ with some “Umph” behind it.
> 
> If we get into Mille Pro....I never heard them so can’t comment.
> 
> ...



Wouldn't the Thesis be the comparison model in the Audison lineup to the Hertz Mille?


The Thesis drivers are pretty outstanding. Haven't done a direct listening comparison between these two yet though.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

captainobvious said:


> MrGreen83 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh there are some that love them. They don’t come out to play, because there is so much Hertz hate out here lol. But I absolutely loved my Mille Legends....I had 0 complaints. Only reason I changed (to Audiofrog & Audible Physics) is because my curiosity got the best of me. Once you pay too much attention to “forums”, u start to second guess ur gear and u want to try what “everyone else” is trying. The Mille’s are no slouch. Perfect if u want SQ with some “Umph” behind it.
> ...


I think and I’m not sure but it goes Voce , Mille , Thesis . Just what I have been told. I have only heard the Milles .


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

We all know that Thesis is the top dog for Electromedia. Voce supposed to be second but that hasn't been the case lately. Everyone I know who has demo'd both Voce & Mille prefer the Mille's. Myself included.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

DanKind75 said:


> We all know that Thesis is the top dog for Electromedia. Voce supposed to be second but that has been the case lately. Everyone I know was has demo'd both Voce & Mille prefer the Mille's. Myself included.




Thesis in a whole ‘nother price bracket tho lol.


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

MrGreen83 said:


> Thesis in a whole ‘nother price bracket tho lol.



Hell yea!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DanKind75 said:


> Hell yea!


do it, you wont


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

Audison and Hertz are designed with completely different philosophies. They sound VERY different, and for a reason. This is why some choose the Mille Legend over the Thesis. Most likely the same person would choose the Mille Pro or Cento over Voce.


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## 205689 (Oct 19, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> do it, you wont


I could barely afford what I have. The Thesis is way out of my league!!!


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## gmerritt1160 (Nov 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> If you want to speak specifically about the mille line, my answer (which ive already told you in person) is without any objective data unfortunately, but a lot of first hand experience with the brand as well as more hands on experience with other drivers in their respective categories than anyone else i know. This day in age, they just dont stack up. 10 years ago? sure. today, no. Their overall quality started going down after the second version of mille's. Overall consensus and first hand experience is that the first version milles were better than the second version. After the second version, there has been no innovation besides ditching the high energy line, and replacing it with a cheaper mille line (thats actually worse than the previous high energy line). I feel as if it were a marketing tactic to make customers feel as if theyre getting something really good and thinking "oh sick! Milles!".. aka, riding on their legacy while having the highest markup of any "high end" brand ive seen. Dont get me wrong, theyre not bad by any means. But they are also not the best value or best performing in their respective categories in my opinion.
> 
> As far as the energy and deici line, they just flat out suck lol.


Is your opinion of the HV165XL.4 considered to part of the first or second versions. 

I currently have them with the ml 280.3


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

gmerritt1160 said:


> Is your opinion of the HV165XL.4 considered to part of the first or second versions.
> 
> I currently have them with the ml 280.3


those were pretty good


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

I'm a big hi-energy fan. So strange they decided to ditch them. I think it was a big mistake.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

thornygravy said:


> I'm a big hi-energy fan. So strange they decided to ditch them. I think it was a big mistake.


i agree with it being a mistake. But they wanted to give everyone a participation trophy and cashed out at the same time


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## gmerritt1160 (Nov 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> those were pretty good


That's good to my ears/eyes 

I was thinking of possibly upgrading, but now I might just get a good tune.

I will be in touch soon to see about a tune.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

Got these bad boys today ?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Simple answer is VALUE.

Because value a DSP and good tuning is the new world order,  LOL


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## Saygoodbyehomie (Dec 6, 2021)

205689 said:


> Exactly!... There's a lot of great products out there these days. The Hertz Mille's just so happen to be my preference. And it's nice to read that they're a lot of you who prefer them as well. It would be nice if they would get a little more positive attention they do now.





MrGreen83 said:


> Add the 700.3’s in the pillars when u get the chance to.....you’ll love ur system even more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's your full system build if you don't mind me being nosy? I love my hertz Mille so much I just planned and pulled the trigger on my full Hertz mille audio build, probably the first of its kind in east coast of Canada, I still have a couple hundred hours until my build is complete but it's nice to see others who appreciate Hertz Mille speakers/amps. At the same time it's nice to be that car with a speaker brand that isn't well known/understood but can sound absolutely amazing given the right environment. When I was still new in care audio and hadn't learned about air space, structure and how it affects the driver, etc... I had my Mille 1650.3 in stocks location, Plastic spacers with no foam seal, door panel grills infront of drivers, yeah the whole 9 yards,they still sounded amazing in stock locations and having a audio control Dsp to tune with, nothing made More of a difference then upgrading speaker location, just those minor little details make a big difference. Yeah I'm done rambling haha just wondering your set up and if you have any experience with the ML 2500.3 subwoofer?

Cheers


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