# 196kHz/24Bit ---DSD5.6MHz Hi-Rez discussion:



## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

*192kHz/24Bit ---DSD5.6MHz Hi-Rez discussion:*

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Who's playing hi-rez files in a vehicle?

*192kHz/24Bit* vs. *DSD 5.6MHz* ...like one format over the other?

What are you using as a source to play files?

What's your favorite app to play hi-rez?

Bluetooth or hard-wired?

If hard-wired...how?

Where are you buying hi-rez songs?

Streaming hi-rez?

Any luck ripping CD's...up-converting... vs. just playing CD?






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## brewmastr (Jul 3, 2015)

I just received my FiiO X7 Mark II from amazon yesterday. I have been waiting to get one to bring my system to its next level. Next step will be running optical cable to aux input of my Bit One HD, updating the firmware to the FIR filters, configuring the RVA and auto input switch features and retune. I may get to it this weekend but not sure. Either way ill be in the hi-res club soon!


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

brewmastr said:


> I just received my FiiO X7 Mark II from amazon yesterday. I have been waiting to get one to bring my system to its next level. Next step will be running optical cable to aux input of my Bit One HD, updating the firmware to the FIR filters, configuring the RVA and auto input switch features and retune. I may get to it this weekend but not sure. Either way ill be in the hi-res club soon!



I should have a _*Questyle QP1R*_ tomorrow. Price recently dropped $200.
Optical out of the _*QP1R*_ into _*8to12 Aerospace*_.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

brewmastr said:


> I just received my FiiO X7 Mark II from amazon yesterday. I have been waiting to get one to bring my system to its next level. Next step will be running optical cable to aux input of my Bit One HD, updating the firmware to the FIR filters, configuring the RVA and auto input switch features and retune. I may get to it this weekend but not sure. Either way ill be in the hi-res club soon!



Turns out that the _*Questyle QP1R*_ was backordered...so I also ordered the _*Fiio X7 Mark II*_. 
Along with being a larger screen, WiFi 2.4GHz and 5 GHZ, Bluetooth 4.1, ...digital output is both *coaxial* or *optical* :surprised:



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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

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Newly released _*Fiio X& Mark II*_

- 64GB internal storage, 2 micro SD slots supporting 256GB each = 576GB total storage.
- Supports WiFi on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz frequency bands.
- Bluetooth 4.1 and aptX.
- Digital output of both optical and coaxial, 3.5 Line Out, Micro USB port.
- Pure Music Mode or Android Mode.
- Supports up to 384kHz/34Bit, DXD, DSD64, DSD128, WAV, FLAC, AAC, APE, ALAC, AIFF, WMA, MP3.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

skip bluetooth if hi-rez is what you'll be using. Also 256x2 won't be it's max micro sd limit, I'm sure that was just a listed spec due to there only being 256gb cards at the time, 400gb are now available. DSD isn't passable across optical or coax so the player will be decoding and sending a PCM signal. However, the DAC used in the player is likely to be superior and going line out to the DSP might end up sounding best, as with mosts opinion regarding using the analog outputs of the Sony head unit. 

I have recently started ripping CDs using JRiver media center to DSD11.2 and find the sound slightly different than having ripped the same ones to FLAC or my preferred codec, AIFF. This different sound may or may not be audible in a vehicle, but across headphones out of Onkyo DP-X1 player, via balanced cables its very subtle. 

I get my other DSD files from this place and regular high res from here. A few other people get their DSD from here but I have yet to try it.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

nineball76 said:


> skip bluetooth if hi-rez is what you'll be using. Also 256x2 won't be it's max micro sd limit, I'm sure that was just a listed spec due to there only being 256gb cards at the time, 400gb are now available. DSD isn't passable across optical or coax so the player will be decoding and sending a PCM signal. However, the DAC used in the player is likely to be superior and going line out to the DSP might end up sounding best, as with mosts opinion regarding using the analog outputs of the Sony head unit.
> 
> I have recently started ripping CDs using JRiver media center to DSD11.2 and find the sound slightly different than having ripped the same ones to FLAC or my preferred codec, AIFF. This different sound may or may not be audible in a vehicle, but across headphones out of Onkyo DP-X1 player, via balanced cables its very subtle.
> 
> I get my other DSD files from this place and regular high res from here. A few other people get their DSD from here but I have yet to try it.


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Thank you for the info.

Specs state: Coaxial Output DOP/D2P (only support DSD64 for DOP)
Not sure what that means?
Does that mean Optical or Coaxial?


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

nineball76 said:


> skip bluetooth if hi-rez is what you'll be using. Also 256x2 won't be it's max micro sd limit, I'm sure that was just a listed spec due to there only being 256gb cards at the time, 400gb are now available. DSD isn't passable across optical or coax so the player will be decoding and sending a PCM signal. However, the DAC used in the player is likely to be superior and going line out to the DSP might end up sounding best, as with mosts opinion regarding using the analog outputs of the Sony head unit.
> 
> I have recently started ripping CDs using JRiver media center to DSD11.2 and find the sound slightly different than having ripped the same ones to FLAC or my preferred codec, AIFF. This different sound may or may not be audible in a vehicle, but across headphones out of Onkyo DP-X1 player, via balanced cables its very subtle.
> 
> I get my other DSD files from this place and regular high res from here. A few other people get their DSD from here but I have yet to try it.


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What is the difference in sound quality of playing a, well recorded, CD in a head unit (_Pioneer DEX-P99RS_)...analog out to dsp ---vs.--- playing the same music, up-converted (ripping same CD), through _Fiio X7 Mark II_...digital out to dsp?

How high can a CD be up-converted and played back through digital output of _Fiio X7 Mark II_?
192/24?
That is the maximum of USB DAC.
Or 384kHz/32Bit?


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

*Re: 192kHz/24Bit ---DSD5.6MHz Hi-Rez discussion:*

An upconverted cd will sound like a cd. 

Ripping at a higher sample rate than what it originally was recorded at will not add anything to the file except a bigger envelope of data.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

*Re: 192kHz/24Bit ---DSD5.6MHz Hi-Rez discussion:*



Weightless said:


> An upconverted cd will sound like a cd.
> 
> Ripping at a higher sample rate than what it originally was recorded at will not add anything to the file except a bigger envelope of data.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk



I've always thought that as well...how can recording something, in a larger file size, improve sound quality?

I've read some on this site say YES it does..
Also, so of the home audio guys say YES..

Some believe there are sonic advantages of up-converting with a dac?


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

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Of the different formats that _*HD Tracks*_ offers, which is best?

*AIFF
ALAC
FLAC
WAV*


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Weightless said:


> An upconverted cd will sound like a cd.
> 
> Ripping at a higher sample rate than what it originally was recorded at will not add anything to the file except a bigger envelope of data.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


I didn't say it added anything, I said somehow it sounds different than a aiff rip, I don't rip to flac, it's compressed, when I rip I prefer to archive at a pure level. 

Dsd rips do sound slightly different as they possibly can. What's on a CD isn't necessarily the identical data as a simple computer codec. Pcm is still different.


DPGstereo said:


> .
> 
> 
> Of the different formats that _*HD Tracks*_ offers, which is best?
> ...


They're essentially the same. Aiff and wav are uncompressed lossless and flac and alac are compressed lossless. I prefer aiff for archive purposes. Can't say that it inherently sounds any different but it helps me sleep better. I don't use wav cause it doesn't hold all metadata tags. 

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

I just replaced my Pioneer 8100 NEX with the Kenwood DNX994s which has built-in support for HiRes. I'm feeding it with a 2TB Western Digital HD plugged into one of the USB cables which also powers the drive.

It plays the FLAC and DSF tracks flawlessly and sounds incredible.... well, as incredible as it can since I'm still trying to get the new install tuned!


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

Kriszilla said:


> I just replaced my Pioneer 8100 NEX with the Kenwood DNX994s which has built-in support for HiRes. I'm feeding it with a 2TB Western Digital HD plugged into one of the USB cables which also powers the drive.
> 
> It plays the FLAC and DSF tracks flawlessly and sounds incredible.... well, as incredible as it can since I'm still trying to get the new install tuned!



Nice!

Would be even better, for some, if it also had a digital audio output to feed a dsp. It's coming...


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

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I learned that the highest resolution the _*8to12 Aerospace*_ will recognize is 192/24. And it's straight through to internal DAC...no up/down converting. However 192/24 should be fine?



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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

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First hi-rez music I purchased was 11 favorite albums from _*HDTracks*_. DSD, 192/24, 96/24 formats. Down-load time, from their web site, took over 8 hours? Wow...Then another 2 hours from computer to _*Fiio X7 Mark II*_.
Successful though.

Hearing about _*Tidal*_ and streaming hi-rez files for a monthly fee? Waiting on ap for portable devices?
Anyone doing this?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

nineball76 said:


> I didn't say it added anything, I said somehow it sounds different than a aiff rip. * I don't rip to flac, it's compressed*. when I rip I prefer to archive at a pure level.
> 
> DSD rips do sound slightly different as they possibly can. What's on a CD isn't necessarily the identical data as a simple computer codec. Pcm is still different. They're essentially the same. Aiff and wav are uncompressed lossless and flac and alac are compressed lossless. I prefer aiff for archive purposes. Can't say that it inherently sounds any different but it helps me sleep better. I don't use wav cause it doesn't hold all metadata tags.



DSD DACs handle or "process" the digital bits and samples in a completely different way. So yes, a native PCM file that is "upconverted" to DSD *might* sound "different". Whether that difference is good or bad is up to the listener.

"DoP" refers to "DSD over PCM". Many DAC chipsets cannot perform D/A conversion from a pure DSD bitstream. In that case, the DSD file is resampled to a PCM format by the DAC before being converted to analog.


FYI, (regarding the bold text above) most software file format converters or "rippers" will allow you to rip or convert to the FLAC file format with 0 (zero) compression. Yes, this file will essentially be as large as the same track if it were in uncompressed WAV or AIFF file format. However, you are able to include extensive tagging metadata and also embedded cover/album artwork.


As another reference point, in the PCM format, 24/192 is the minimum bit depth (or word length) and sample rate that is required to entirely match the human auditory system's capabilities _in the time domain_...see the Nyquist theorem.

However, we need to realize that very few recordings were actually captured natively at 24/192, and then also remained at that bit depth and sample frequency throughout the entire mixing process through to the digital master. And even if it did, that doesn't automatically guarantee that it's a "good recording".

Capital Records recording & mixing engineer, Al Schmitt, is one of the few "old school" engineers that is adamant that all recordings should be _captured_ using no less than 24/192 when using a PCM format. He also DOES NOT use EQ in the recording (tracking) or mixing process. Instead, he _moves_ the microphone, or changes the microphone and/or mic preamps until it sounds "right" to him. He says that using EQ affects the Phase coherency, especially when layering multiple, individual tracks, which then affects the realism and ambience of the instruments and vocal(s) in the space or "room". Check his discography and listen to some of his recordings.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

DPGstereo said:


> Nice!
> 
> Would be even better, for some, if it also had a digital audio output to feed a dsp. It's coming...


From most users perspectives of the Sony GS9 head unit that has optical out, the analog ouputs sounded much better. The DAC used in the SOny did a much better job at decoding the digital than their DSP did. I have to assume with the new Kenwood HIRez units, that might be pretty close to the same presumption. However the DAC used in the Kenwood isn't quite up to spec as the Sony is, judging by the SNR posted in their spec sheets. 



DPGstereo said:


> .
> 
> I learned that the highest resolution the _*8to12 Aerospace*_ will recognize is 192/24. And it's straight through to internal DAC...no up/down converting. However 192/24 should be fine?
> 
> .


Might also be noted that optical in doesn't support 192khz, 96 is the max, and optical in dsp is down converted to 16/44 for processing, the only way to make full use of the 24/192 into a dsp is either thru an external dac, HiRez head unit thats doing the conversion and going RCA into DSP, or coax spdif into dsp. 



DPGstereo said:


> .
> 
> First hi-rez music I purchased was 11 favorite albums from _*HDTracks*_. DSD, 192/24, 96/24 formats. Down-load time, from their web site, took over 8 hours? Wow...Then another 2 hours from computer to _*Fiio X7 Mark II*_.
> Successful though.
> ...


Slow internet? I can download 192khz files in very little time. Last ones I bought maybe took 4-5 minutes for an entire album? And DSD isn't any bigger than a 24/192, about 1.7GB for a normal album on average.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

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Lucky for me, I ran both optical and coaxial cables to my center console of my Ram truck. So I'll use _*Fiio X7 Mark II*_, as source...digital coaxial into _*8to12 Aerospace*_. This should allow DSP to see 192/24? Jacob, at Mosconi, says yes.


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## brewmastr (Jul 3, 2015)

let me know how it goes, I have been severely slacking lately in the car audio department getting FiiO hooked up. Got a high profile client flying in tomorrow to pick up a brand new G63 AMG and the high pressure fuel pump connector is broken as well as the pump from assembly at the factory. Yay cars! That will be my day tomorrow, cant lose the 150k sale for the company...


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

brewmastr said:


> let me know how it goes, I have been severely slacking lately in the car audio department getting FiiO hooked up. Got a high profile client flying in tomorrow to pick up a brand new G63 AMG and the high pressure fuel pump connector is broken as well as the pump from assembly at the factory. Yay cars! That will be my day tomorrow, cant lose the 150k sale for the company...



Will do...hope to spend some time listening this weekend.




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