# F-150 low level outs with Forscan and MS-8



## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

So I used forscan to get a flat, low level signal from my ACM. It is running into a MS-8. Before this I had the high level wires run into the MS-8. I recalibrated after the switch to low level. I have a substantial drop in output. After trying several different things with the MS-8, I measured the output voltage from the ACM. At full volume it is measuring between .9 and 1 volt. That would be why the MS-8 wasn’t grabbing signal during calibration till full volume. Any ideas as to why the voltage is so low? My next step is to take the dash apart and test voltage at the harness. Just wondering if I may be missing something. Thanks.


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## german88 (Jun 18, 2015)

Re check voltage at the harness. Should be 3.8-4 range. Sounds to me like it's not saving the change in Forscan. Take note of the code as you re-enter the ACM. If it's reverted to the original code you have your answer.


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Dumb question, but when you made the forscan change did you move the inputs on the MS-8 ? They need to be on the rca connectors not the speaker inputs now. 


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

Yes I did. I soldered RCA’s on. I cut the RCS’s back off to check the voltage.


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

On a voltmeter you should measure approx 2 volts ac; they are 4 volt rms stock. 


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## Zoom_M5 (Oct 28, 2017)

unix_usr said:


> On a voltmeter you should measure approx 2 volts ac; they are 4 volt rms stock.


Is that a balanced differential output?


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## kanadian-kaos (Sep 12, 2010)

Have you asked over on F150forums?  <--- click there.


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

So I checked voltage at the harness out of the ACM and it was LOW voltage as well. Only .5 volts. I will have to check the numbers in forscan again.....


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

Checked the numbers in Forscan. 

They matched what I put in. These are the numbers I used:

727-01-01 xx5A xxxx xxxx this one makes the factory outputs a low level. 
727-01-02 00xx this one flattens the factory EQ. 

Does this sound correct?


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

Are the codes different for Sync 3?


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Codes are correct, they are balanced outputs, the ACM is the same for Sync 3 - Sync is just the front end that sends commands along...


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## dowheelies (Jan 7, 2012)

Did you ever get this sorted out? If so what did you find?

Eric


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

I just switched back to high level outs but I did get rid of the factory EQ. Couldn't figure out why the low level output was so low.


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## optimizer (Jul 13, 2018)

does your f150 have the sony stereo? i just got a 2014 taurus with sync 2, no sony. i'm wanting to run a dsp and doing the code mods with forscan seems like a good idea. this is my first "modern" car and dealing with all the integrated issues is frying my brain. any other pitfalls to watch out for with the sync system? i was hoping i could just run high level outs from the HU to the dsp to clean and tune. but it seems like that might mess with other features (i heard something about it making the voice control not work).


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

I have the non-Sony. Before I did the Forscan I just had the high levels running to my DSP (JBL-MS8) and everything still worked with that scenario. I ended up still using high levels just used Forscan to get rid of factory EQ.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

optimizer said:


> does your f150 have the sony stereo? i just got a 2014 taurus with sync 2, no sony. i'm wanting to run a dsp and doing the code mods with forscan seems like a good idea. this is my first "modern" car and dealing with all the integrated issues is frying my brain. any other pitfalls to watch out for with the sync system? i was hoping i could just run high level outs from the HU to the dsp to clean and tune. but it seems like that might mess with other features (i heard something about it making the voice control not work).


I have a '14 Escape with SYNC2, non-Sony "premium" 9-speaker (no subwoofer) system.

FWIW on mine and AFAIK all SYNC2 ACMs ("x" indicates a digit you do _not_ change):

ACM 727-01-01
xx*5*x xxxx xxxx yields variable volume low-level output

ACM 727-01-02
*00*xx yields EQ defeat (no matter what output level you choose)

With the non-Sony system** these changes do not in any way alter any other SYNC, voice command, phone or feature performance or steering. The audible content of the signal remains _exactly the same_ as the OEM high-level and EQ'd signal on each output channel. 

So, for example, if in your Taurus the system sends the rear proximity alarm tone to the rear channels then those will remain on the rear channels (that's how the '13-'15 Escape is rear-cam proximity tones are set up). 

That means if you want those tones to be heard with your added DSP, you MUST feed those rear channels to the DSP in addition to the front channels. If you don't have any voices/tones on the rear channels then you are fine sending only the front channels to your DSP, those alone will provide it a full-spectrum audio signal. 

A note for MS8 users .... if you feed the MS8 low-level RCA inputs _and_ skip the HU setup steps like you would for an aftermarket HU, the MS8 _ignores_ all inputs except RCA 1&2. In other words, even if you connect the rear channels with backup proximity tones to MS8 RCA inputs 3&4 they will _not_ be heard unless you go through the setup desk steps to get "OK, OK, OK" as you would when your source is an OEM HU high-level inputs.

This nuance of MS8 setup is mentioned by Andy W. in the MS8 mega-thread and having BTDT take it from me that's how it works, even though not documented in the instruction manual.

**IF you have the Sony system then an additional APIM reprogramming step and minor harness wiring mod is required to send all the SYNC voices and tones to the ACM outputs.

Final comment - if your DSP accepts either high-level or low level (RCA) inputs then IMHO you should _test_ to see which yields the best sound for all conditions with a Ford ACM as your source. Do not _assume_ that using reprogrammed low-level output as your source will always be 'better' than using the high-level ACM output as your source.


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## optimizer (Jul 13, 2018)

thank you romey and fordescape. i'm way early in the planning stages but i like to go in knowing as much as i can. looks like i'll need to learn how to use forscan. also good to know the non-sony system is a little easier to deal with.


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

A simple lesson I learned the hard way is save your stock codes to a file or at least take a picture of the code before you switch them in case you need/want to change back. I thought I did but apparently, I didn't. A big thank you to unix_usr for helping me out with that.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I found no need to de eq mu truck. Non Sony system. I am using the helix pro 2 though. I just used the input eq on the helix and measured the outputs of the helix plugged directly into my computer. The factory eq wasn't much. High level outs suited my needs fine.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

FordEscape said:


> I have a '14 Escape with SYNC2, non-Sony "premium" 9-speaker (no subwoofer) system.
> 
> FWIW on mine and AFAIK all SYNC2 ACMs ("x" indicates a digit you do _not_ change):
> 
> ...




*Where do I find the Forscan codes/procedures for 2018 Sync3 with Sony?*
Using 8to12 Aerospace.


.


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## Romey (Jul 4, 2014)

I have a 2017 F150 with sync3 and the codes were the same as my 2015 with sync2 


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## mtxpert (Sep 29, 2016)

Glad I saw this, I have a 14 Tremor I'm going to be putting an MS8 into soon. 

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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

DPGstereo said:


> *Where do I find the Forscan codes/procedures for 2018 Sync3 with Sony?*
> Using 8to12 Aerospace.


Sorry, I can't help you with that.

I will offer that on the SYNC3 *Escape* w/Sony starting in 2018 the arrangement of speaker feeds split between the Sony DSP and the ACM changed from previous years, so that raises some year and model specific questions.

I'd suggest that, as you pursue the answer, you fully describe the vehicle and speaker arraignment in _your_ '18 Ford with Sony. It _may_ be dangerous (or at least less than accurate) to assume that the answers are the same for all '18 Ford vehicles with Sony, much less any previous year model.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

OK, for those interested in situation I mentioned regarding what inputs are used by the MS8 when you choose "skip input setup" .... here's the quote from Andy (click to jump to the full post):



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> .....
> 
> Choosing "Skip input setup" *connects inputs 1 and 2*, (speaker or line level) to the input of the DSP *and disconnects the other inputs *and skips the input EQ. If you know you have a reasonably flat 2-channel signal, there's no need for input signal "conditioning".


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Romey said:


> I have a 2017 F150 with sync3 and the codes were the same as my 2015 with sync2
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sync is *just* a computer and toushcreen interface. Every button you press on the screen which interacts with something in the vehicle typically does so over CAN bus - so even though Sync 2 and Sync 3 have completely different operating systems, touch screens, and interfaces - what they talk to is often still the same (ie: signal to turn the A/C fan speed stays the same regardless of Sync 2 vs Sync 3). 

The ACM as such is the same idea - though often mistaken as "the radio" - Sync is *exclusively* controlling the radio, the actual radio would be the ACM module - and as such is less likely to change model to model or year to year as much as Sync itself does.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

unix_usr said:


> Sync is *just* a computer and toushcreen interface. Every button you press on the screen which interacts with something in the vehicle typically does so over CAN bus - so even though Sync 2 and Sync 3 have completely different operating systems, touch screens, and interfaces - what they talk to is often still the same (ie: signal to turn the A/C fan speed stays the same regardless of Sync 2 vs Sync 3).
> 
> The ACM as such is the same idea - though often mistaken as "the radio" - Sync is *exclusively* controlling the radio, the actual radio would be the ACM module - and as such is less likely to change model to model or year to year as much as Sync itself does.


^ Absolutely agree with this useful clarifying post. ^

_____

@unix_usr - comparing the '13-'16 Escape Sony schematics to the '18 Escape Sony schematics I found that the feed to the front tweeters was different in an interesting way - the '18 Sony Escape showed the feed to the front tweeters from the ACM rather than from the Sony DSP/amp module unlike all previous Escape Sony systems I've investigated. Wonder if you've seen such in your explorations of other Ford models?

Not at all suggesting that's _dictated_ by SYNC version, but suspect it's an unrelated design choice relating to implementation of the Sony system, perhaps to utilize the existing ACM amp capabilities rather than including discrete front tweeter amp channels in the Sony DSP/amp module (wag, there). But it does leave me wondering if the ACM, APIM and/or DSP module programming is different for '18 Escapes compared to previous years insofar as 'steering and output level' for those front tweeter channels?


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

DPGstereo said:


> *Where do I find the Forscan codes/procedures for 2018 Sync3 with Sony?*
> Using 8to12 Aerospace.
> 
> 
> .


*Even more specific...2018 F250 Platinum Syn3 w/Sony.*

Anyone done one?
Where can I find codes and proceedures?


.


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## kanadian-kaos (Sep 12, 2010)

Here is the tutorial

Here are the codes in a spreadsheet.

Make sure you also make the APIM change since you have the SONY DSP. Line 90-92 in the spreadsheet.


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## DPGstereo (Jan 16, 2013)

kanadian-kaos said:


> Here is the tutorial
> 
> Here are the codes in a spreadsheet.
> 
> Make sure you also make the APIM change since you have the SONY DSP. Line 90-92 in the spreadsheet.


Thank you.


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