# Mark Antony Amps...



## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

For those who like the pre buyout Mark Antony amps...click here:
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5557


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## Masi994 (Aug 25, 2005)

where can I find info on these? got a link?

M


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Not other than the one I posted. However these are very nice amps for sure...hard to beat at those prices. These are the pre-Concept buyout models. Mark Antony used to make great cheater amps. Like an amp that was 2x100 watts at 4 ohm, but bridge it and drop the impedence to 1/2 ohm, and you are looking at 1.5kw. I think the model was the 25opcm or something like that. The internals look beautiful dont they?

Thats similar to my DLS A3 where its rated at 2x150 @ 4ohm, and will do over 1.2kw at 1 ohm bridged.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

man those are sweet looking.... i need to find more info....


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

wish I had the mula boi


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

how good were these supposed to be i cant find one thing on them online...???


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Try and search over on Car Sound & Performance, they seem to know more about them on that forum...


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

searched high and low.. only like 2 models i can find info on and they are not these... sonicelectronix had the 1500 model but sayd now diso'ed and not really any info on it.. anyone else.. these look to be a good bargin for a second system. thanks


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## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

I couldn't find jack on them either. Knew of the cheaters, but can't find anything on the net...


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## lightspeed (Feb 8, 2006)

Ya they look good an I am looking for a couple 4-channels . . .Which i had specs and an idea of the Xovers on them. I looked high and low for anything on them . . .


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

lightspeed said:


> Ya they look good an I am looking for a couple 4-channels . . .Which i had specs and an idea of the Xovers on them. I looked high and low for anything on them . . .


Why not try and email the dude selling them...at least thats a start


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## lightspeed (Feb 8, 2006)

Already done!


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

lightspeed said:


> Already done!


And any word?


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## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

Flakko is a good guy and will get back to you. Family relation to the buildhouse so the support should be good as well.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

yea flakko is cool but i'm sure he doesn't know anything about the amps themselves. it was just given to him to sell. you can probably get specs from him but no real review through him.


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

I, too, exchanged email with him. Very nice, very responsive; but as others pointed out - he doesn't have too much to go on (I'm not bagging on him, I appreciated his candor). I've been looking at these amps vs the US Amps - as both seem very cost effective.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

i emailed him and have not got a response yet???


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

lol i betcha he's getting a ton of emails..give him time.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

He might not have much insight to these amps, but he does have access to the owner's manuals, at least we can get some specs..aside from that, their reputation SHOULD speak for themselves...


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

well he gave me pricing for what i want now waiting to get the specs on them...not sure i want them if they are rebadged newer concept stuff though...


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

AzGrower said:


> He might not have much insight to these amps, but he does have access to the owner's manuals, at least we can get some specs..aside from that, their reputation SHOULD speak for themselves...


please elaborate. i have no clue about these amps. i'm relatively new to the car audio scene (june 05) and i also know nothing about concept amps so if you can elaborate please do. 

i've been in contact with flakko and he said he should have more info by tomorrow.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

zfactor said:


> well he gave me pricing for what i want now waiting to get the specs on them...not sure i want them if they are rebadged newer concept stuff though...


I dont think they are, as he stated they were PRE Concept buyout amps. At those prices, these amps are worth it...hell even at prices 2x what he is selling them for they are worth it. Just let the internal pics speak for themselves...have you really seen nicer, cleaner internals in a $150 amp? I havent...


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

only maybe in the next ones....


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

zfactor said:


> only maybe in the next ones....


Are you serious? I have seen the internals on the NEXT VRz 4.400, 5.500, Q12, VRz 2.100 and the 2.200...They are not as clean as this. These internals remind me a lot of the Arc cxl amps (2500 model)


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Now here is one fine amp...


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

i never saw the next ones in person only in pics and they looked awsome in the pics.. btw is that a sony??

wonder if these mark ones were made in the us or overseas??


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

zfactor said:


> btw is that a sony??



Here's a better pic of it


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

Here are the internals of a NEXT Q.22 (I knew this pic would come in handy someday)!


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

the vr series look waaaaayyyy better than that....was i right on that amp???
here is a pic of the vr series next amps


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

and here are two other next vr series... i think these look as good if not still better than the mark ones do imo...


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

so uhh anyone have an idea how these marc antony's amps perform?


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

zfactor said:


> the vr series look waaaaayyyy better than that....was i right on that amp???
> here is a pic of the vr series next amps



That makes me sad in the pants.  Who wants to sell me a VR????? I need 2 2 channels or one stout 4 channel!!!


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

alphakenny1 said:


> so uhh anyone have an idea how these marc antony's amps perform?


so far no one knows any info at all on them


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

mr tibbs said:


> That makes me sad in the pants.  Who wants to sell me a VR????? I need 2 2 channels or one stout 4 channel!!!


there are 2 2 channels for sale on eca... the 2.400 models


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## GMo (Aug 9, 2005)

zfactor said:


> so far no one knows any info at all on them


Not specs, but they were fairly well built.
People used to run them down to .5ohm. I don't remember people having very many thermal problems with them. 
I remember they were underrated, USACI had to re-rate them a couple years ago.
I think they manufactured a couple tube amps as well.
Their lower line of amps were called the G-Spot, I think 2001/2...


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

GMo said:


> Not specs, but they were fairly well built.
> People used to run them down to .5ohm. I don't remember people having very many thermal problems with them.
> I remember they were underrated, USACI had to re-rate them a couple years ago.


Yes MA amps were one of the cheater amps that caused new rules and regulations to come about...so you know they must be worth $1.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

zfactor said:


> t....was i right on that amp???


Hint: the amp I posted was made overseas


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

zfactor said:


> there are 2 2 channels for sale on eca... the 2.400 models



Thanks man!! BTW, I contacted flakko about the Mark Antony's last night and he said full specs would be up today sometime.


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## lightspeed (Feb 8, 2006)

AzGrower said:


> I dont think they are, as he stated they were PRE Concept buyout amps. At those prices, these amps are worth it...hell even at prices 2x what he is selling them for they are worth it. Just let the internal pics speak for themselves...have you really seen nicer, cleaner internals in a $150 amp? I havent...


Ya know Az . . I'm not so sure about this. He says "original Mark Antony amplifiers". I never saw anything about Pre-Concept buyout. I was looking for that specifically. If you look at the older monoblocks, they haqve an engraved white name and logo on them. These look like they have a more mass produced nameplate. I can appreciate the look of the insides, but I don't really know anything and what I am looking at in there other than neatness.

As for power, i keep hearing about taking them down to .5 ohms and such, but i think that may have been the earlier monoblocks . . . for me, not really comparable to the 4-channels.

I really WANT these to be decent! I hope he gets back to us soon.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

lightspeed said:


> As for power, i keep hearing about taking them down to .5 ohms and such, but i think that may have been the earlier monoblocks . . . for me, not really comparable to the 4-channels.
> 
> I really WANT these to be decent! I hope he gets back to us soon.


I dont expect any 4 channel amp to be stable at 0.5 ohm, but Flakko does have some mono amps there listed, perhaps those might be 0.5 stable. We will have to see what he lists


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## dodgerblue (Jul 14, 2005)

my adcom 5475 might do it! but wouldnt burden my baby with 1/2 loads,as long as they are as advertised i cant see how you can go wrong with these,parts wise look better than your typ. korean-china power house 1000 watt amps! azgrower heading over in a few!


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

dodgerblue said:


> azgrower heading over in a few!


Now thats what I wanted to hear!!!


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

Lets keep this one updated as frequently as possible.

BTW - what are your thoughts on the MAs vs the US Amps he had listed?


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## GMo (Aug 9, 2005)

AzGrower said:


> Yes MA amps were one of the cheater amps that caused new rules and regulations to come about...so you know they must be worth $1.


LOL, yea I remember, so many people were really upset because they had all invested in cheater amps which then became re-rated.
I think that's what initiated a lot of the older buy outs, loss of competition support from consumers/pros.



lightspeed said:


> Ya know Az . . I'm not so sure about this. He says "original Mark Antony amplifiers". I never saw anything about Pre-Concept buyout. I was looking for that specifically. If you look at the older monoblocks, they haqve an engraved white name and logo on them. These look like they have a more mass produced nameplate. I can appreciate the look of the insides, but I don't really know anything and what I am looking at in there other than neatness.
> 
> As for power, i keep hearing about taking them down to .5 ohms and such, but i think that may have been the earlier monoblocks . . . for me, not really comparable to the 4-channels.


I would be cautious about running anything at .5ohm for any length of time without some relative major heat sinks/fans involved.
I believe right before the concept buy out, the logos were lasered on.
IMO it would be harder to find some post buy out, because I believe they stopped production very soon after.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

Beau said:


> Lets keep this one updated as frequently as possible.
> 
> BTW - what are your thoughts on the MAs vs the US Amps he had listed?


kinda hard to compare when no one knows about the MA amps. And which USAmps are you referring to? IS? Exterminator? Merlin? AX?


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## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

I was trying to figure out what model that amp was .. 2500D .. not for sale? I'd like to see internals of each amp specifically rather than something he's not selling? 

Just thought that was strange.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

yea i noticed that too. he had a pic of what seemed to be the MK2500D. i dunno hopefully flakko comes through with all the info though.


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

Alphakenny 1: You make a good point - my question was just too vague.

Lets try this version: Based on what we think we know about the MAs at this point, what do you think of the like-priced US Amps (which, I assume, are those in the Exterminator line) in terms of price/performance. 

*The bottom line   * is I am considering both the US Amps line and (depending on what we find out about the MAs) the Mark Antony amps. My real goal is best bang for my buck, even if it isn't the least priced alternative. In other words, assuming for a moment we were just looking at the US Amps - although the Exterminator line might be a good value, if the Merline line was a better overall value, that is the route I would want to go.

Does that make sense - or am I asking for someone to "describe the universe, and give three examples"?


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

i'm still kinda confused and what people think of the MA amps. I mean its obvious that the internals are great which usually means good performance but still we don't know that for a fact if they perform well. i too might pick up a couple of the MA amps depending on specs of course. 

Flakko has quoted me on some Exterminator amps for a solid price. It seems to be a good value and i used the IS4085 which i thought performed solidly and the Exterminator line replaced the IS line.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Yeah the US Amps are solid performers. What kind of prices did he offer and for what models?


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## mojako (May 27, 2005)

Azgrower,
was that a A3 that you posted? 

how come the ampguts pic is different?


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Yes it was, I dont know...both of my A3s look like the ones I posted. Perhaps ampguts is confused and posted one of the other model A series amps


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## mojako (May 27, 2005)

Az,
maybe ampguts posted a newer or older a3? Genesis used to make DLS amps right?


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## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

AzGrower said:


> Yeah the US Amps are solid performers. What kind of prices did he offer and for what models?


Here is the link to answer your question:
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5282

And for those of you who are waiting for a reply from him, he is a college student and just helping out with these on the side so it may take a little bit to get a reply. Especially since he has been bombarded with questions on the MA amplifiers, in order to give everyone answers he is going to address almost all of them at once and provide better details about everything he has. He is putting together a list of questions and getting answers straight from the source.


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## GMo (Aug 9, 2005)

alphakenny1 said:


> i'm still kinda confused and what people think of the MA amps. I mean its obvious that the internals are great which usually means good performance but still we don't know that for a fact if they perform well. i too might pick up a couple of the MA amps depending on specs of course.


Mark Antony cheater amps used to perform well for competition.
Same as old US, Orion concepts, old hifonics, old fosgates, linear power, old lanzar opti.
All have solid builds, but all are older amps.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

GMo said:


> Mark Antony cheater amps used to perform well for competition.
> Same as old US, Orion concepts, old hifonics, old fosgates, linear power, old lanzar opti.
> All have solid builds, but all are older amps.


hey thanx for the response. like i said earlier i'm relatively new to the car audio scene, so i was wondering if you can make any comparison to those MA amps to any of the newer amps out there now? are they worth the money that is being sold right now?


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

so he sent me dimensions but thats all.. anyone get any other specs on these???


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

man he didn't send me anything. can you post the dimensions for us?


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

only have them on one amp.... he didnt send me all of them. he did say that the mk line is higher than the gs (g-spot) line thats all... the 400.4 is actually large for 100x4 if you ask me...2.4x11.4x16.8... thats not a small amp... not that huge but not an amp that can go anywhere...but thats all i got. i want some real specs before ordering the 4 i want...


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

the other question when compared to newer amps is also a big one.. warranty.. what if i build an entire system around these and one craps out on me in like 3 months... know what i mean..... i mean these are cheap but they are not THAT CHEAP...


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

zfactor said:


> the other question when compared to newer amps is also a big one.. warranty.. what if i build an entire system around these and one craps out on me in like 3 months... know what i mean..... i mean these are cheap but they are not THAT CHEAP...


thx for the dimensions. wow that is a little big for a 4 channel but we gotta wait and see. 

as far as warranty goes i'm pretty sure flakko has some sort of warranty going with these amps. i'm sure he probably got them from someone from usamps and i'm sure he'll have some type of warranty, hopefully....


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## GMo (Aug 9, 2005)

alphakenny1 said:


> hey thanx for the response. like i said earlier i'm relatively new to the car audio scene, so i was wondering if you can make any comparison to those MA amps to any of the newer amps out there now? are they worth the money that is being sold right now?


Well, I don't know about new amps...I'm not really into the HC scene anymore.
Some of the HCCA's, US's, Kicker HC's, American Bass VLF's, MMATS HC's, are still pretty common, I would compare it to those.

I think they are worth the money if you're looking for a high current amp. If you're not going to compete, or using low loads, I would rather purchase a lower current topology.


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

you people are CRAZY!!!! 

i have SO MANY EMAILS AND PMS!!!! haha sorry its taking so long.

oh and just for your information, the Usamps Xterminator > MA

here is the specs and stuff:

GS-200.2 **130.00 shipped**
Power [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] 
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x7.9
Fuse: 20x1

GS-400.4 **165.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] 
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x12.6
Fuse: 25x2

GS-1000D.2 (class d) **215.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x12.6 
Fuse: 20x3



MK-1500D (sub amp) **230.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x13.8
Fuse: 25x3

MK-800.1 (sub amp) **180.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x16.5
Fuse: 30x3

MK-400.2 **165.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x12.6
Fuse: 25x2

MK-800.2 (sub amp) **175.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected], [email protected],[email protected]
Dimensions:2.7x11.4x12.6
Fuse: 30x3

MK-800.4 100x4 **195.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x16.5
Fuse: 30x3


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

oh great thx for the pm .


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

Nice 1st post, eh?


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

i just pmed you rite now peter hahaha. much easier to post it publicly than emailing everybody. but umm i can take the prices off if need be, liek if its against the rules an stuff


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

Flakko, 

There is a thread re Low Budget Amps in this Forum. If no one minds - Could you list the specs, sizes, prices, etc., of the US Amps (whatever information you have on any of the US Amps lines - Exterminator, Merlin, AX) in that thread?


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

Beau said:


> Flakko,
> 
> There is a thread re Low Budget Amps in this Forum. If no one minds - Could you list the specs, sizes, prices, etc., of the US Amps (whatever information you have on any of the US Amps lines - Exterminator, Merlin, AX) in that thread?


here are the specs for all the lines available for usamps, http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4414. 

as for prices, pm him.


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

Thanks!


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

also follow those specs from that site i gave you. usamps website is BS. wrong info on that stupid music website lol.


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

I went to their website - what a mess.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Yeah but what are the prices on the US Amps, more specifically, the TU600?


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

yes prices please i am interested in the us stuff... where can i find a price list?? thanks


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

sorry no price list for USamps posted publicly...


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

Also for you techheads, here is why the XTerminators are better than the MA's



[email protected] said:


> Xterminator is much better.On XT we use TIP 35 and 36, 70n06 FETS, An American Magnetics’ torroid that is wound with 14 gauge wire. 2 sided epoxy PCB, Two blue LED’s, 24dB crossovers .10gram per MM heat sink which is rounded on both sides. Many top grade components are used. We even use mica insulators and heat sink grease to insure best heat transfer and product stability. But for the price MAntony is pretty good.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Do the amps come with any sort of a signed autograph of J-Lo's a$$ or anything  Sorry I had to get that out.


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

Flakko, is this a class AB amp?


MK-800.1 (sub amp) **180.00 shipped**
Power: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
Dimensions: 2.7x11.4x16.5
Fuse: 30x3


And I think you need to edit those [email protected] 4 specs. 

Oh and welcome to DIYMA


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

yes it is i already asked that...


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

o rly


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

yyyeeeppp are you thinking what im thinking...


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

cam2Xrunner said:


> Flakko, is this a class AB amp?
> 
> 
> MK-800.1 (sub amp) **180.00 shipped**
> ...


yessuh its a/b

oh crap.. didnt notice that... thats wat the manual stated hehe.

thanks yo!


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

So... Flakko, I emailed you about these amps, I'm hoping you can hook it up for a local buyer


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

haha of cuz, i respondeded!!! local buyers are cash only


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

hmmmmmmm lookie what i just found.... this is sooo interesting.....

heres a us amp xt-1600.4 okay?????
gold colored board

now check out the second pic.... the mark anotony mk-800.4
the blue colored board

the boards seem to be identical to my eyes.... in basically every way.only thing i see different is the torrids have more wire on the mk version. doesnt mean the parts are exactlt the same though....also found xt-1600.4 dimensions online same exact as the mk-800.4 see what im seeing???


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

^^^ rather very interesting....


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

meaning what there flakko???


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

> Originally Posted by [email protected]
> Xterminator is much better.On XT we use TIP 35 and 36, 70n06 FETS, An American Magnetics’ torroid that is wound with 14 gauge wire. 2 sided epoxy PCB, Two blue LED’s, 24dB crossovers .10gram per MM heat sink which is rounded on both sides. Many top grade components are used. We even use mica insulators and heat sink grease to insure best heat transfer and product stability. But for the price MAntony is pretty good.


^^^ ill stand by that. the toroids of the XT ARE armerican and put on here, and the windings of wire are done by hand i belive.... the fets ARE better

just cuz the 2 amps look the same, doesnt mean they will perform the same.

i dunno!

edit: more toroid windings dont necesarily mean better. also if you look closely the transistors are different.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

any ideas why these were ran?? i mean production wise flakko... i geuss they are made by the same build house as xterminator... just curious hasnt ma been gone for a while now?? maybe using up scrap parts etc...??? just curious thanks for all the info


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

zfactor said:


> any ideas why these were ran?? i mean production wise flakko... i geuss they are made by the same build house as xterminator... just curious hasnt ma been gone for a while now?? maybe using up scrap parts etc...??? just curious thanks for all the info



i THINK what happened here was Dirk (usamps engineer) took the MA design, and tweeked it for more output cleaneer signal etc.

i know that the Xterminators were built overseas, but in NO WAY OR FORM are these rebaggED MA's....


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

i didnt mean that they were rebagged... i figured it was something like you had said here ^^^ they just look so similar and you mentioned they were made in the same build house it made me curious to look closer and dive deeper into it.


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

zfactor said:


> i didnt mean that they were rebagged... i figured it was something like you had said here ^^^ they just look so similar and you mentioned they were made in the same build house it made me curious to look closer and dive deeper into it.


who knows... ill let yall know more info when i ask on monday. till then, 

camry2xrunner, you have email 

edit: im goin to bed lol im tired...


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

YGM back


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

man i miss my old usa-400 i had that thing forever and sold it to my girlfriend at the time's younger brother. damn i want that amp back that was a monster...i had one of these old school ones bought brand new...lol
this ones on ebay right now wish i had the money....


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

damn ss page unavailable right now....


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

flakko said:


> who knows... ill let yall know more info when i ask on monday. till then,


okay i'll wait til then for the "more info" to make my decision  .


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

thatsa what ima doin....


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

zfactor said:


> man i miss my old usa-400 i had that thing forever and sold it to my girlfriend at the time's younger brother. damn i want that amp back that was a monster...i had one of these old school ones bought brand new...lol
> this ones on ebay right now wish i had the money....


yeah, i got outbid on that very amp last week. The guy who outbid me ran the price up to a ridiculous amount; I guess he didn't pay...


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Is this you flakko? or someone else: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=239883


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

^^^ nah not me. hes just my "partner in crime" helping me move these things.

and an update  i asked JR about the similarities and behold:



[email protected] said:


> Yes, they are similar, but when you push them the difference becomes super
> evident, they only look them same. Many manufacturers copy our design others
> buy OEM from us. However, US amps never sells it own designs and tricks.


^^^ there is your answer.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

not to stir anything up, but how can people be buying these things with so little informaton on them. over on the soundsolutionssudio forum flakko says somthing like "who knows maybe they are class D" They look nice, company has a good rep i suppose. but damn, drop a couple hundred bucks on an amp without knowing what it really is or does. not for me.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

those ^^^ are my thoughts exactly.....


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

> Originally Posted by [email protected]
> Xterminator is much better.On XT we use TIP 35 and 36, 70n06 FETS, An American Magnetics’ torroid that is wound with 14 gauge wire. 2 sided epoxy PCB, Two blue LED’s, 24dB crossovers .10gram per MM heat sink which is rounded on both sides. Many top grade components are used. We even use mica insulators and heat sink grease to insure best heat transfer and product stability. But for the price MAntony is pretty good.


Two blue LEDs? It MUST be good!  

14 ga wire on the toroid isn't generally a good thing. You want your toroid to consist of several smaller wires to combat the skin effect, which is very much a factor at frequencies that many switchers operate at (generally ~35kHz up to 100kHz, but higher frequency components if they use some sort of PWM scheme). I'm not saying you can't use 14ga wire. You certainly can if you're switching on the low side of that range. I'm just saying it's not a feature they should be touting. Bigger isn't always better when it comes to transformers in SMPS's. I'd take the one composed of litz wire first.  

So is .10 gram heat sink with rounded sides good? I haven't rounded the sides of my sinks. I'd be more impressed with this in the manual:

"Big ass heat sink with sharp edges to scare off people who want to tinker."


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

nice lol....


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

just to keep yall updated on this situation, i turns out the MA's or a no go for now. Usamps had to buy the ENTIRE stock of 1100 amps from the supplier at one time, not piece by piece. there wasnt enough interest and i guess it wasnt well worth the investment. there may be stuff in the future, and ill make sure you all kept up to date, cuz you guys/girls are cool


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## LiquidClen (Dec 27, 2005)

what is a cheater amp?


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

LiquidClen said:


> what is a cheater amp?


basically an amp that does something small such as 25 x 2 @ 4ohms but when bridged down to 1 ohm mono it can do something like 1000 @ 1 ohm or so.


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## LiquidClen (Dec 27, 2005)

how do they make them like that, and why is it cheating?


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

LiquidClen said:


> how do they make them like that, and why is it cheating?


Dont know how they make them like, that, but in competition, you have class ratings like 0-100 watt class, 100-250 watt class, etc..so you can see where your amp rating, if using a cheater amp, would fall into the class of 0-100 watts, but actual power output is over 1000 watts at 1/2 ohm would be considered cheating...cause the "normal" operating impedence, 4 ohm, only yields 50x2 watts. Several new regulations have been added in competitions to avoid these situations.


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## flakko (Mar 11, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Two blue LEDs? It MUST be good!
> 
> 14 ga wire on the toroid isn't generally a good thing. You want your toroid to consist of several smaller wires to combat the skin effect, which is very much a factor at frequencies that many switchers operate at (generally ~35kHz up to 100kHz, but higher frequency components if they use some sort of PWM scheme). I'm not saying you can't use 14ga wire. You certainly can if you're switching on the low side of that range. I'm just saying it's not a feature they should be touting. Bigger isn't always better when it comes to transformers in SMPS's. I'd take the one composed of litz wire first.
> 
> ...


i know its an old thread, but i got a response to that because personally, i dont know :



[email protected] said:


> The skin effect theory is a theory. Generally adopted by those who want to
> machine rap a toroid and not hand rap it with a heavy gauge wire.{We would
> rather create a big pulsating magnetic field for mega current delivery}
> Moreover, the XT switchers operate at 25 to 27 kHz and US AMPS never use PWM
> ...


asd


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Yeah, he's more than welcome to use that line.  

Well, the skin effect isn't a "theory". It's as well-established a fact as anything else we call a fact. It describes the amount of that 14 ga wire that's actually being used for conduction. When it comes to high frequency circuits, there becomes a point of diminishing returns because of the skin effect. The resistance of the wire decreases as you use lower gauge wire -- that's the point of touting larger wire. Well, when the frequencies are high enough for the skin effect to come into play, the resistance decreases at a slower rate as you increase your wire size. How do you get around that? You use a bunch of smaller wires that end up giving you the same wire gauge you were after in the first place. So, for example, rather than using a single 14ga, you use four or five 20ga insulated wires. You see this sort of thing in a lot of amps.

For most applications, you can still hand wind these. Four or five conductors around a toroid core is still a relatively easy undertaking. When your switching frequency gets up to 50kHz or higher, and you have to wind 10 or more conductors, it can be a little more difficult and a little less precise. Using litz wire can help, but then price becomes more of an issue.

Overall, it sounds like they're bypassing some of these problems by using a lower switching frequency. 25kHz is low enough to not really have to worry that much about it. The skin effect is still playing a role, but not an overbearing one. More common switching frequencies further from the audible spectrum (30-35kHz is quite common) would require paying a little closer attention to it. Class D amps usually operate closer to 100kHz, so it becomes a much more important issue with those.

Basically, in the world of bad ass amps, I think the ultimate bad ass spec would be using a slightly higher switching freq (assuring that there's no contamination at audible frequencies due to some sort of weird IMD effect or something) and 4 or 5 20ga wires comprising the transformer.


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