# The Future of Head Units?



## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

So a buddy and I were talking about this over lunch today. Where do you think Head Units will be in 10-15 years? I argue that single DIN's have just about maxed out on features where they are now and as factory systems improve and are integrated into interior styling, navi, and other systems that system integration processors like the MS-8, BitOne, and Clean Sweep will take over. What do you guys think?


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## W8 a minute (Aug 16, 2007)

Yes.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

The traditional headunit we all know and love is dying away.. Fast! Many cars nowadays come with stereos that are so integrated with the rest of the dash, that changing them out will be very difficult and expensive. In some cases, I don't think it's even possible.

Many cars are now coming with factory satellite radio, bluetooth, voice recognition( think sync), steering wheel controls, onstar, and many others. It's gotten to the point that it will take like 4 different modules to change the stereo on a new suburban and retain all the factory functions. The cost alone will scare away most customers.

Lastly, aftermarket single din units just don't look right in many of the newer vehicles. They look completely out of place. Many customers are upgrading their sound while keeping their factory headunits for aesthetics alone.

The only aftermarket 'headunit' that is selling well are double din navi. These are selling quite well, but I think it will be short lived. Most luxury cars come with them from the factory and more and more lower end cars are offering them as options. Hell, you can buy a civic and corolla with a factory nav nowadays.


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

It's gonna be ridiculous. Have you seen I, Robot? Will Smith's Audi is not too far off, I bet. The car will drive itself and the windshield will be a screen. The head unit will not be a head unit anymore. 

And I base that ^^^ on absolutely nothing.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

if you ask me, the future is integration. I think in the distant future, the OEM integration modules will be tiny and easy to hide under the dash or some similar location. They will send a signal to the amplifiers through some sort of wireless, completely eliminating the need for rca interconnects. Amplifiers will continue to trend smaller and more efficient. 

People will be bringing their tablet PC into the car, which will have everything on it, from communications to MP3 and internet radio to even youtube or movies for their kids. The tablet PC will interface with the OEM system wirelessly, which will in turn send the audio signal to the aftermarket processor.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

The future of interfaces will be based on software packages and more sophisticated I/O devices from the OEM.

Hopefully, adding more power and better speakers in some capacity will never go out of style.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Personally, I think that the future of HUs is to be very much like your phone or PC. Want an EQ? Download one. Want time alignment? Download an app for it. I also think the HU itself will be less important. I think you're going to see a lot more of your source content coming from other devices, specifically phones. Even now, my phone has 16GB BUILT IN. I haven't even bothered getting it a big SD card but I could hold an ipod worth of songs on that.

CDs are obsolete already. Digital formats are the new way, and while I doubt you'll see any OEMs leaving CD players out, I think you'll see less 6CD changers and the like. I think satellite radio will be dead within 5-10 years, with the rise of internet radio like Pandora, it's only a matter of time before someone comes up with a good platform to support internet radio "stations". Heck, it might be out there already and I don't know about it. As it stands, the only ground sat radio has left is that they can offer "programming" and talk radio. Internet radio that combines use stations like Pandora with some talk stations and the like will wipe sat radio out.

Bluetooth is where the future is heading. I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future all your "head unit" is is something that connects to your phone to give you a larger control interface for it. Clearly it'll likely lock you out of certain things (video up front, screen texting/email etc.) but I don't see any reason to have much of a head unit as a source unit in the future. Ideally BT will be updated to allow for higher quality audio transmission.

I think basic replacement radios will all but not exist. DDINs will be less common as they are now with the rise of radios that are designed around the interior, not the other way around. I think the Chinese are on the right track with their taking a single DDIN model and making it work with different factory radio styles.

OEM integration is the future though, I agree. I think that an amazing product would be a MS8 style unit that taps into the MOST network on most new luxury cars and uses that for signal. No splicing of wires at an amp to sum a full range signal, just hook into the data network for the volume and signal and take that out to be used with aftermarket gear.

So IMO, the future of the head unit is bleak.


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

FAUEE said:


> Personally, I think that the future of HUs is to be very much like your phone or PC. Want an EQ? Download one. Want time alignment? Download an app for it. I also think the HU itself will be less important. I think you're going to see a lot more of your source content coming from other devices, specifically phones. Even now, my phone has 16GB BUILT IN. I haven't even bothered getting it a big SD card but I could hold an ipod worth of songs on that.
> 
> CDs are obsolete already. Digital formats are the new way, and while I doubt you'll see any OEMs leaving CD players out, I think you'll see less 6CD changers and the like. I think satellite radio will be dead within 5-10 years, with the rise of internet radio like Pandora, it's only a matter of time before someone comes up with a good platform to support internet radio "stations". Heck, it might be out there already and I don't know about it. As it stands, the only ground sat radio has left is that they can offer "programming" and talk radio. Internet radio that combines use stations like Pandora with some talk stations and the like will wipe sat radio out.
> 
> ...



Wow, you said everything i was thinking. Agreed 100% with the BT uses.


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## slowsedan01 (May 4, 2008)

FAUEE said:


> Personally, I think that the future of HUs is to be very much like your phone or PC. Want an EQ? Download one. Want time alignment? Download an app for it. I also think the HU itself will be less important. I think you're going to see a lot more of your source content coming from other devices, specifically phones. Even now, my phone has 16GB BUILT IN. I haven't even bothered getting it a big SD card but I could hold an ipod worth of songs on that.
> 
> CDs are obsolete already. Digital formats are the new way, and while I doubt you'll see any OEMs leaving CD players out, I think you'll see less 6CD changers and the like. I think satellite radio will be dead within 5-10 years, with the rise of internet radio like Pandora, it's only a matter of time before someone comes up with a good platform to support internet radio "stations". Heck, it might be out there already and I don't know about it. As it stands, the only ground sat radio has left is that they can offer "programming" and talk radio. Internet radio that combines use stations like Pandora with some talk stations and the like will wipe sat radio out.
> 
> ...


Well said sir. I couldn't agree more. I think we will see something along the lines of a MS-8 "light" in the next 2-3 years. Additionally, as you were saying with the downloadable audio "plug-ins", you can get that now with the MiniDSP although you are limited by the hardware right now.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

slowsedan01 said:


> Well said sir. I couldn't agree more. I think we will see something along the lines of a MS-8 "light" in the next 2-3 years. Additionally, as you were saying with the downloadable audio "plug-ins", you can get that now with the MiniDSP although you are limited by the hardware right now.


Something like the MS-8 "light" might take off, but i'm not sure. The reason I say this is because most car audio shoppers do not buy signal processors. Signal processors are bought by a very small percentage of car audio buyers. They are popular here, but most stores do not sell many if any at all. They are too expensive and take a while to install/tune. It would have to be <$200 and easy to install/tune for this "ms-8 light" idea to take off with the masses.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Me personally am hoping & waiting for development of software and accessories so I can use my cell phone as my head unit. Sorta like the ipad is being used. Or atleast a 7" Google tab. Would be nice to be able to control an ms-8 with a cell phone. That being said, I fully expect head units to drop in numbers. And I expect devices like the bitone to become even more advanced. Maybe one company will get to the point where all make and models of cars mapped out and stored. Think cructhfield equipment database that had become a Bible back in the 80's/90's. Imangine a ms-8 that already knows your speakers placement and your car accoustics before you even hook it up. That's where I see.this part of car audio going.


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## St. Dark (Mar 19, 2008)

FAUEE said:


> CDs are obsolete already. Digital formats are the new way,


I thought CDs were digital?!?!?!

*G* You are pretty on with what you are thinking. Mobridge has a MOST to TosLink adapter to feed directly from most MOST vehicles into an Audison, Alpine, Zapco processor. They, NavTV, and others are working on single-chassis solutions. MotusLabs has one, although apparently it's flashed with the software for intended host car before it shipped.
Higher speed BT would be nice, to minimize wiring...but BT would need to be REALLY standardized. Right now it's like pirate rules... more just guidelines...*L*. Same with MOST.
Terminal Mode or something like that - where your smartphone/tablet/et cetera has most of your apps, features, functions & music, and then transfers it's GUI and control to an MFD touchscreen or two in your dash wirelessly, which then passes that info wirelessly to processor/amp combos, additional tablets in the headrests...and so on...probably not right around the corner as mainstream, but it seems to be coming. 

You have guys like Audison trying to create easy ways to play high bitrate/high sampling rate music in the through Full Digital pipelines...and even Apple seems to be recognizing that the pendulum is slowly swinging back towards sound quality and noting that they need to make changes.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Angrywhopper said:


> Something like the MS-8 "light" might take off, but i'm not sure. The reason I say this is because most car audio shoppers do not buy signal processors. Signal processors are bought by a very small percentage of car audio buyers. They are popular here, but most stores do not sell many if any at all. They are too expensive and take a while to install/tune. It would have to be <$200 and easy to install/tune for this "ms-8 light" idea to take off with the masses.


This is very true. I can count on one hand the number of signal processors I've installed in years of installing. And it's not because we weren't trying to, or weren't having people willing to spend money. 99% of our normal customers just didn't see the value in it.

I think something that had the MS8's capabilities but minus the external display and internal amp would be OK. But that would basically be Rockford's 360.


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## St. Dark (Mar 19, 2008)

Best and easiest way - hook one up. Have a preset with no EQ, TC, and using more typical crossover points and slopes.
Then a preset fully tuned to the best of your abilities. 
Once they can HEAR, not just be told, what the difference is, and how they can have Music in the car, they will often opt to go a bit farther than they originally thought. Maybe in stages, or maybe later, or maybe they just tell their friends. But once the concept moves from some meaningless phrases that usually don't have much to attach themselves to in their head, to something they can experience and appreciate...THEN the lightbulb goes off.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Our shop didn't even want to carry them. Took too long to install for the money. We made more money pumping out decks and speaker installs than spending hours tuning a signal processor.

I agree though.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

FAUEE said:


> Our shop didn't even want to carry them. Took too long to install for the money. We made more money pumping out decks and speaker installs than spending hours tuning a signal processor.
> 
> I agree though.


Completely true. Although car audio is a hobby to many here on the board, it's different when it's your livelihood. Stores can't afford to sit in a car and tune the bit one all day. Not only is it very expensive, the cost of a good installers day is pricey. More money can be made on amp/stereo/speaker installs. Most shoppers would walk right out the door when you tell them the cost of the processor is $600 and the install/tune is another $400.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

So are we a dying industry? with more and more vehicles manufactured with standard HU that include GPS, BT, iPOD connection & all the bells & whistles?

I still think there's hope for the audio enthusiast, but as far as HU goes, you can't even install aftermarket HU on some vehicles.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

InCarAudioVideo said:


> So are we a dying industry? with more and more vehicles manufactured with standard HU that include GPS, BT, iPOD connection & all the bells & whistles?
> 
> I still think there's hope for the audio enthusiast, but as far as HU goes, you can't even install aftermarket HU on some vehicles.


I had a talk with an industry insider about this issue. He told me that he believes firmly, that in the sub $50,000 bracket of cars, the OEM system will *NEVER* approach a good aftermarket system. The cost would eat up too large a percentage of the vehicle. Because of this, he says he has complete confidence in the industry as a whole, despite the obvious and imminent change on the horizon.

The traditional head unit may change or even be eliminated, but there's no real way to get around upgrading the processing capabilities and power amplification. The OEM speakers will also need upgrading to reach the next level of output (especially in the sub bass region). There is also plenty of other fun stuff that can be done - like adding extra video capabilities, aftermarket security systems, any other electronics you can think of that don't already come in a car & etc. 

Overall the game will change, but it won't die.

*edit* as far as having everything on a phone. I see a major problem with that - cell phones and tablet pcs don't have a very good output stage. I listen to pandora radio frequently and while I enjoy the freedom it provides, the sound quality is vastly inferior to CD.


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

I think what is going to happen eventually is once they've started to kill off all of car audio, those companies that ONLY produce car audio or rely on it, the installers, the distributors are going to file lawsuits against car manufacturers since they have made it impossible and have created a monopoly with fujitsu ten, delco, harmon kardon, whoever else is making the oem units. Once that happens it will go back to easy to replace units. Hell maybe the manufacturers will wise up and just install aftermarket units from the beginning! Mazda did that for one of their cars IIRC

the government wont stand to let an industry destroy so many jobs. at least thats what obama says....


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

spl152db said:


> I think what is going to happen eventually is once they've started to kill off all of car audio, those companies that ONLY produce car audio or rely on it, the installers, the distributors are going to file lawsuits against car manufacturers since *they have made it impossible and have created a monopoly with fujitsu ten, delco, harmon kardon, whoever else is making the oem units*. Once that happens it will go back to easy to replace units. Hell maybe the manufacturers will wise up and just install aftermarket units from the beginning! Mazda did that for one of their cars IIRC
> 
> the government wont stand to let an industry destroy so many jobs. at least thats what obama says....


that's not a monopoly, it's an oligopoly, and we already have one with the auto industry. In fact, we have one with telecom companies and many others industries as well - it's just the nature of our market system. Eventually, businesses buy each other and consolidate, and the weak die off, and we're left with a few consolidated powerhouses. It is most definitely legal.


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## St. Dark (Mar 19, 2008)

Angrywhopper said:


> Completely true. Although car audio is a hobby to many here on the board, it's different when it's your livelihood. Stores can't afford to sit in a car and tune the bit one all day. Not only is it very expensive, the cost of a good installers day is pricey. More money can be made on amp/stereo/speaker installs. Most shoppers would walk right out the door when you tell them the cost of the processor is $600 and the install/tune is another $400.



You'd be surprised. SHOW them what the processor does, in a proper demo where they can hear typical, sidebiased car audio, then switch to a fully tuned preset with imaging, linearity, properly executed sub-bass, et cetera. Often they'll ask "how did you do that?" 
How far they go will vary, but once they realize what is possible, versus just a better flavor of noise, they'll often be happy to go farther than they originally intended.


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## onelivinlarge (Apr 10, 2011)

i think it is going to the integration modals like ms8, bit tone, rf 360.2/3 things like that id actually like my friend to revert his mazda 3 back to stock and use a integration modal instead of the dvd dd he has in now


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Here is my take. With the demise of the CD as a source and DVD as the preferred method to store the navigation stuff, the days of replacing head units will be replaced by integration (which is already happening now on more expensive cars). No reason to have multiple displays when you can have one.

With that, I don't see the need for any kind of processing even close to the MS-8 (light). Why would you need to do time alignment in a car where you know the size of the car, speaker placement, frequency response of the speakers, car interior materials, etc. All you need to do is flash that at the factory based on what options the cars come with. The MS-8 costs what it costs becauses it doesn't know what variables it will encounter in a car.... The OEM car stereos guys already know almost all of those variables and can address them very cheaply.

I do see the need for expandibility being built in (like a PC) but in a very controlled manner (think of the sandbox that Apple gives people to play in versus the wild wild west of the Android Market). You need to give the dealers a way to upsell new stuff (bluetooth, GPS, On-Star, etc.) but at the same time make sure that you don't give access to your car's ECU to someone who could cause it harm (rogue software, etc.). 

Juan


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

FAUEE said:


> We made more money pumping out decks and speaker installs than spending hours tuning a signal processor.


Yup. That's why my business model is airtight.


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

OldOneEye said:


> Here is my take. With the demise of the CD as a source and DVD as the preferred method to store the navigation stuff, the days of replacing head units will be replaced by integration (which is already happening now on more expensive cars). No reason to have multiple displays when you can have one.
> 
> With that, I don't see the need for any kind of processing even close to the MS-8 (light). Why would you need to do time alignment in a car where you know the size of the car, speaker placement, frequency response of the speakers, car interior materials, etc. All you need to do is flash that at the factory based on what options the cars come with. The MS-8 costs what it costs becauses it doesn't know what variables it will encounter in a car.... The OEM car stereos guys already know almost all of those variables and can address them very cheaply.
> 
> ...


i read an article a few years back that basically said all the decks will be built the same and features turned on/off through a programmer and software. You buy a $100 deck and if you want mp3, $50, you want bluetooth, $50, you only pay for the features to be added. It was a neat idea but im glad it never picked up.


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## gt6334a (Sep 9, 2010)

OldOneEye said:


> The MS-8 costs what it costs becauses it doesn't know what variables it will encounter in a car.... The OEM car stereos guys already know almost all of those variables and can address them very cheaply.


exactly!! another to look at it is that for OEM, you can spend a week tuning for the specific car, and the cost can be shared across a million vehicles during the production cycle...

the only question for me is whether there will be much of a car market by that time... when crude oil hits $500/barrel massive changes in societal behavior need to take place.. at that point it would not make economic sense for a private individual to own a car...


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

by which time we would go either hybrid or electric, and by the look of it most of these vehicles will (or already) have integrated system that aftermarket HU cannot replace.

ID Online 
www.incaraudiovideo.com


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## gndprx (Feb 19, 2008)

We just replaced my wife's Explorer with a Murano. Pulled all of the equipment out of the explorer and have it sitting in the garage now. To be honest, I have no desire to replace the factory source in the Murano. It's so integrated with the rest of the vehicle and the dash screen that it's just not worth it to loose out on some of the more desirable integrated features.

So if I do ever decide to build up her car again, I'm going the OEM integration route with an AudioControl piece or similar that will let me put my downstream equipment back in without touching the dash. So now an RF Platinum unit (Denford) has essentially been made unnecessary/obsolete in my eyes by Nissan.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

what's your (all of you) opinion on the Rosen Entertainment oem style integration unit?

they're a little up there on the price range but its plug n play, and from what I heard our retains all the factory settings on the replacement unit.

ID Online 
www.incaraudiovideo.com


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