# 2.1 Stereo Receiver?



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm looking to buy a receiver for a stereo setup (2 channels only) for my tv room. I never have and never will run a surround setup, I just love stereo setups. However it would be nice to add a sub to it that was not powered by a plate amp, but also powered by the receiver. Is there any 2 channels that also have a powered subout? A 2.1?

I've looked at Onkyo and HK, the usual suspects but can't find anything. I'd like for it to have hdmi inputs as welll.

75x2 @8ohms + 400w at 4ohms would be nice!

TIA


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

Naahh, aint no such thing. Why would you not want a seperate subamp. Recievers are notorious for overrating the amps in them anyway, the last thing I would want is to have my sub depend on that crappy amplification as well. If you want a nice setup that you can expand on for the future, you might want to look at getting into a seperate setup. For about 750 you can get into a VERY nice little 2 channel setup that will kick the living **** out of ANY stereo reciever you can buy, at ANY price. 

Check this company out:
Emotiva Audio: Audiophile Quality Multi Channel Amplifiers, Stereo Preamplifiers, Audio/Video Processors, and Award Winning Speaker Systems At Direct Prices

I bought a theater processor from them, and am in the process of getting into one of their 2 channel amps. The usp-1 is a stereo preamp, and the upa-2 is a stereo amplifier. You can get into the pair brand new with 5 year warranty for 750. It's a bit more than a reciever but it is worlds better quality than any stereo reciever you will be able to get.

Here is their forum:
The Emotiva Lounge - Home


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

Another option is to go with good used gear, here is some old school gear that should still sound very good. This is assuming you can't or won't spend the money for the Emotiva gear:

Dynaco Pat 4 preamp
Dynaco ST 150 amp


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

You can use this as your subamp:
Dayton Audio SA240-B 240W Subwoofer Amplifier with Boost 300-805


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

To save some money and get some good old school used gear:

CARVER SYSTEM TFM-25 AMP.& CT-3 PREAMP TUNER /MANUAL/REMOTE& AUDIOPLEX SPEAKER | eBay

Personally, if I had to keep it around 500, this is the way I would go. Carver is good stuff. Make him an offer for 400 see if he takes it.


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

Here is an Adcom setup that is nice as well:

Adcom Stereo System AMP Preamp Tuner GFA 545 II GFP 555 II GFT 555 II | eBay


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

Was leaning toward this :blush:
FRYS.com*|*ONKYO

For $300 seemed like a good deal to me. I have 2 bookshelf speakers:
BIC America - Top Rated Since 1973

I have had these for maybe 7 years or so? They are really fantastic sounding speakers, I wish I could get my car to sound as nice as these.

I dont watch Blu-rays, listen to CD's, let alone DVD-Audio. I am certainly not a home audiophile. I maybe would listen to the stereo 4 times a month?
I would listen to my ipod, pandora and DirectTV music channels. 

We often have parties here and thats the reason I need something. 
I have a TC3000 that was in my car and figured I could use it with some of the receivers channels while I build a custom enclosure for it many many months down the road.

While the link you sent me was pretty incredible, I do not have the budget or desire to go crazy like that yet. I'd much rather buy a P99 first, my car is where I like to spend the $$$.

So would that Onkyo really sound like poop on that TC3K?


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

tonesmith said:


> Was leaning toward this :blush:
> FRYS.com*|*ONKYO
> 
> For $300 seemed like a good deal to me. I have 2 bookshelf speakers:
> ...


That is a surround sound reciever, has 7 amps in it. It should sound decent on your speakers, but you still need to get a seperate subamp for your sub. Also, it has WAy more features than you need, as it is an AV surround reciever.

Honestly, If I were to spend on a budget, I would go with this Carver setup, it is only 200 more, but is SO much better than that Onkyo, and rather than having a bunch of features you will never use, it is focused more towards the sq, and will sound ten times better than that Onkyo.
CARVER SYSTEM TFM-25 AMP.& CT-3 PREAMP TUNER /MANUAL/REMOTE& AUDIOPLEX SPEAKER | eBay

You may be able to get it for 400, make him an offer, see waht happens. BTW, Onkyo isn't as good as they used to be, they have really gone to the high production philosophy, and the quality has gone down quite a bit in the past few years.


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

BTW that Onkyo CANNOT run that sub without a seperate subamp. Also, if that is a tc3k, it will want a ton of power to get moving, and you will want to run at least 500 watts to it.

This amp will work good:
Dayton Audio SPA500 500W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier 300-807

You would need a seperate subamp no matter if you go with the Onkyo, or any of my other suggestions.


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

Errr, your right.....no easy way is there.....I just thought I'd give it some power instead of having it sit in my garage.

Separates are just not practical for me right now. I dont have the space and need something the wife can use. Guess we'll just keep using the iPod speaker dock for now instead of half-assing it.

Still a good deal on that Onkyo, but the specs are misleading.

"100 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.08% (FTC)"

It's not 100 watts @ 8 ohms x 7 channels. its 100x2!


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

generalkorrd said:


> BTW that Onkyo CANNOT run that sub without a seperate subamp. Also, if that is a tc3k, it will want a ton of power to get moving, and you will want to run at least 500 watts to it.
> 
> This amp will work good:
> Dayton Audio SPA500 500W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier 300-807
> ...


Elemental Designs has a nice 1300W for 450$. 
Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics
Think Id rather get that, some seperates and call it a day. Ill have time for that maybe this time next year. Need to finish my damn infinite baffle first, sounds like shiite atm.


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

tonesmith said:


> Errr, your right.....no easy way is there.....I just thought I'd give it some power instead of having it sit in my garage.
> 
> Separates are just not practical for me right now. I dont have the space and need something the wife can use. Guess we'll just keep using the iPod speaker dock for now instead of half-assing it.
> 
> ...


That's what I meant when I said the amps in recievers suck. That reciever probably puts out around 60 watts if all channels are driven. And you would be lucky to see 100x2 out of that thing. But, it will power those bookshelves ok, just wont do a sub at all. 

Did you look at that CL ad I put up? That is a setup you can get into for 150 bucks. Then you may have some bucks left to get a subamp with.


----------



## Old Skewl (May 30, 2011)

If you want a quality receiver that is simple to use, and puts out good power, look at a used Yamaha RX-770 or RX-777. You can pick them up on EBay around $125. They are very highly regarded for their SQ.

They sell a new model RX-797. I think it sells for $400-500. It is regarded pretty well too.

Definitely will need to run a separate sub amp no matter which way you go.


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

General I looked at that cl ad. Aside from being very old, humongous and 3,000 miles away from me, it looked nice.

Oldskewl, I'll look into it. I would hate to buy used HA equipment but if I can get a deal why not.

I just offered someone local 180$ for a 2 channel onkyo receiver that ha good reviews. Tx-8555 I believe. 

I can add an amp later for the sub too.

Thank for the input, anyone else?


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

If you are interested in the old school Dynaco gear, I can be convinced to go look at it, and get it shipped to you if you wanted it.


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

Well, thanks to your advice(s), I held off on going with a receiver and got some good deals on some used equipment.

I found a B&K Reference 20 preamp/processor and an Adcom GFA 545 II stereo amplifier for $350. The equipment was in very good shape and it even fit inside my cabinet (just barely!)

So far, I am very impressed with the SQ. I have yet to hear any high quality recordings or Blu rays, but its clear the sound is "fuller" then when powered off my old Onkyo receiver. What I mainly listen to is audio from my iPhone or iPod, and even out of the 3.5mm jack it sounded damn good imo.

As far as my TC3k sub, I got a little creative....
I found a nice DC regulated power supply dirt cheap and I used a 2 channel Aura amp I had laying around and bridged it to give it life....lol, kinda ghetto I guess, but It sounds good and will suffice until I get a dedicated sub amp.

Thanks again guys, ill post a pic later.


----------



## Old Skewl (May 30, 2011)

Congrats on your components. I think you made some good choices. I have B&K components myself and love them. Plus they are US made in NY. I had to send my Preamp back to them for a new power switch.(thought it was more than that). I have not owned any Adcom equipment, but have heard nothing but good stuff. Plus with that Reference 20 you will have room to expand(if you ever want to go 5.1) Check out a B&K amp down the road if you get a chance. They are known to have a warmed tube type sound over the analytical sound of the Adcom. Enjoy you new system!!


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

tonesmith said:


> Well, thanks to your advice(s), I held off on going with a receiver and got some good deals on some used equipment.
> 
> I found a B&K Reference 20 preamp/processor and an Adcom GFA 545 II stereo amplifier for $350. The equipment was in very good shape and it even fit inside my cabinet (just barely!)
> 
> ...


That was definitely the best way to go. It will be very hard for any reciever to match the sq of what you have there, and the nice thing is, that when you want newer features, just buy a new pre/pro, and keep your amp, as it is pretty much future proof. I would never go with a reciever again after having gone to the seperates route( unless I have to). Partsexpress is having an amp sale right now I believe, so look there for a subamp. There are also the behringer-type pro amps on ebay all the time, for a pretty decent deal.


----------



## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

yea, lots of great reviews of the behringer amps, EP2000, EP4000 etc all many claim to be excellent pushing a sub. Only down side is some claim the cooling fan is noisy & should be replaced. I hope to go the DIY rub route & will either use one or two Behringer amps or possible a class D amp from Wyred for sound.

I have a Adcom GFA-5500 which is a solid performer. To me by far their amps weakest area is their low end, they just don't have much oomph down low. I also have old very power hungry speakers...... under 90 db effeciency & a 12in driver

It is amazing the difference is SQ between a good processor like you have & a all in one receiver. Great call going the way you did. I also went the pre/pro route when I wanted a surround receiver to replace my 18yr old Denon AVR-3000. My wife (girlfriend at the time) had a few parasound amps & we compared their sound to my GFA-5500 which demoted my Adcom to the garage.... The adcoms are solid amps (I think their car stuff is better) & will give many many years of use.


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

Viggen said:


> yea, lots of great reviews of the behringer amps, EP2000, EP4000 etc all many claim to be excellent pushing a sub. Only down side is some claim the cooling fan is noisy & should be replaced. I hope to go the DIY rub route & will either use one or two Behringer amps or possible a class D amp from Wyred for sound.
> 
> I have a Adcom GFA-5500 which is a solid performer. To me by far their amps weakest area is their low end, they just don't have much oomph down low. I also have old very power hungry speakers...... under 90 db effeciency & a 12in driver
> 
> It is amazing the difference is SQ between a good processor like you have & a all in one receiver. Great call going the way you did. I also went the pre/pro route when I wanted a surround receiver to replace my 18yr old Denon AVR-3000. My wife (girlfriend at the time) had a few parasound amps & we compared their sound to my GFA-5500 which demoted my Adcom to the garage.... The adcoms are solid amps (I think their car stuff is better) & will give many many years of use.


I have looked at the Behringer amps, but I assumed because of the price that perhaps they were not very good. The power supply that I am using at the moment also has a fan on it and it is a little annoying. Its an Astron 20A power supply, it weighs about 20lbs and is really beefy, but a fan might be a dealbreaker depending on how loud it is.

What do you guys think of these? A Parasound and a B&K, both 2 channels.

I was thinking of maybe offering a trade + cash (the funds are very thin now).

B&K ST1400 Amplifier


Parasound HCA 1000 THX Stereo Power Amp


----------



## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

My buddy has a behringer 2k on an IA DP 15, that thing is loud as **** in his house. The fan is a bit noisy on the amp, but if you hide the amp, it won't be a problem. Remeber what you are trying to drive, that tc 3k will laugh at those two amps, unless you build the box nice and big( for extra sensitivity) and tune that ***** low as hell. Then either of those amps will work better for you. For example, the subs I am using-- 2 mmats p2.0 15's-- reccomend 2.0 cu.ft. with max of 2.5 cu.ft. I have them at ~3.5 each tuned to 22 hz. I'm giving them 205 watts each and they rock my face off. Build that box as big as you possibly can-- maybe 7 cubes or so net, and you will get nasty with that tc sub on a low power amp.


----------



## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

LOL.... that's my exact thought... how can it be so good & so cheap. I have no clue & thus not sure if I will try it. Everyone who has them loves them it seems however no clue if they were able to compare it to something else. They float around used at times on the DIY home audio forums for really cheap.... I might try one just to see what I think & I figure I could sell it & not loose to much

I have a handful of parasound HCA-1500's. They sound a LOT better vs my GFA-5500 Adcom & are very solid performers. I biamped my old Kappa 8.1's & that made a very nice improvement in SQ, I just want more power.


----------



## Old Skewl (May 30, 2011)

The B&K ST1400 is a derivative of the famous ST-140. It makes 140 watts per channel. I have a 3 channel version of it in my HT set up and lover the sound. I have never heard a Parasound in person. I have heard they have a sound more similiar to the Adcom as the above poster mentioned. The B&Ks have a slightly warmer sound.



tonesmith said:


> I have looked at the Behringer amps, but I assumed because of the price that perhaps they were not very good. The power supply that I am using at the moment also has a fan on it and it is a little annoying. Its an Astron 20A power supply, it weighs about 20lbs and is really beefy, but a fan might be a dealbreaker depending on how loud it is.
> 
> What do you guys think of these? A Parasound and a B&K, both 2 channels.
> 
> ...


----------



## tonesmith (Sep 8, 2011)

So I have one vote for the Parasound, one for the B&K.

Not sure which to go for.

I dont think I want to build a huge ported box, no space for that. I think I'll keep an eye out for a used behringer.

As it is, the small Aura 2 channel makes some unexpectedly loud bass. It must be the room acoustics because in my car with about 1500w, it did not get comparatively loud. I truly think Honda accords are bass sinks, something about the 03-07 models just suck up the bass!

I was playing Star Wars Clone Wars yesterday with my son (5y/o) on ps3 and let me tell you playing the game while listening to the new set up was amazing. At one point some huge robot burst through a wall and all you heard was this deep boom, my son stopped got up and said what was that dad! Lol. It must be the room acoustics.


----------



## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

check out home theater shack's forums. EP2500/4000's pop up there every once in a while. Also a few other similar amps..... been reading a bit on that site helping me get idea for my HT build. Not a fan of my wife's mirage 8's.... they just can't move enough air


----------



## stefan s (Nov 15, 2011)

Old Skewl said:


> If you want a quality receiver that is simple to use, and puts out good power, look at used yamaha receivers RX-770 or RX-777. You can pick them up on EBay around $125. They are very highly regarded for their SQ.
> 
> They sell a new model RX-797. I think it sells for $400-500. It is regarded pretty well too.
> 
> Definitely will need to run a separate sub amp no matter which way you go.


I have a Denon (home theater in a box) setup for my living room. It actually does the job. I didn't need a high end setup that will rattle the walls. I just wanted to hear the most out of the HD programming. The whole setup was abotu $850. Not too shabby. This was actually a gift from my wife, so I couldn't be too choosy to begin with!


----------



## dareo801 (Jan 31, 2012)

If you want brand new, buy a HK 3490, about $280 bucks on amazon. It will put out 120+ real RMS at 8 ohms and tests over 200 at 4 ohms. Plus it has optical and coax digital inputs with a good DAC. 

It's my dream receiver but i'm cheap and like to buy used stuff. Tonight i came home with a 1988 Pioneer VSX 9300. It cost me $49 and half gallon of gas. It's a fully class A amp making 125 watts at 8 ohms and 225 wpc at 4 ohms. It weighs nearly 40 lbs and will dim the lights when i first turn it on. I have it running some JBL GTi 508s that i built enclosures for. I am loving it so far. 

The downside to older equipment is you never know how long its going last or what hidden quirks it may have. I had a 1994 Sony unit stop playing on both channels after using it daily for 5 months. I only paid $15 for that receiver so it didn't owe me anything. If you have to have digital input like me you can get an external DAC for pretty cheap.

Edit: you will want a seperate subwoofer with its own amp. For my PC with these GTi's i have a JBL P1222 running off a car amp powered by some spare PC power supplies. A better option is to buy a powered sub or build one with a plate amp. I would get a 250 watt or 500 watt plate amp and as big of a driver as you have space for.


----------

