# [Ampguts] What's the diff between these 2 RF amps?



## typericey (May 13, 2006)

Punch P400-4








Power T400-4









These are current model amps, straight from the RF website. The Power is rated at 60W x 4 while the Punch 50W x 4 and the two have a $100 (MSRP) price gap. Funny thing is that to my eye, they look almost (99%) the same! Is RF trying to pull a fast one here?

While you're at it, can you tell me if these amps are any good (based on its guts)? I'm looking into getting the Punch for a modest seps + 10" sub SQ system.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Looks like the cases are different, and there are some differences in the preamp cards. Other than that, they look identical to me.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

typericey said:


> Punch P400-4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my God. Ha! They moved the light pipe location. Wow - I've seen a lot of SOP (standard operating platform), but this one takes the cake! I see nothing different except more / different components on the filter PCBs.   

EDIT: Wait - the PCB is named differently. One is the T400-4 and the other PUNCH P400-4. Different lot number, too. Other than that...it's tough to say. One could be higher copper weight, which would allow for higher current delivery and also cost a bit more. The PCBs are black which makes tracking difficult - one could be a 4 layer board. Who knows? There is likely _little_ difference. Rockford is not known to try and fool people, but this is a cutthroat age. Why don't you call and ask them?


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

cajunner said:


> the Power has discrete silver mica caps on the crossover boards, and the Punch has surface mounted ceramics?
> 
> Power series was traditionally considered high current capable, maybe there's a 1 ohm stable thing that makes up the difference with a bit more metal for sinking in the Power casting?


Those are all Mylar capacitors. Silver mica caps are pF range for extremely stable loop compensation - too expensive to use in a mass market car amplifiers from RF. Values in the nano and micro Farad range are necessary in filter applications. The Power has more of them because it's a 4th order filter vs 2nd order on the Punch.

Since the power supply is not regulated, they can't be lowering the voltage to accommodate low impedance stability. And, there is nothing different in the predriver stages that infers they are capable of doing so. They may set the thermal trip point lower, though. It will run hotter, all things being equal. All the speculation is for naught if we can't bench test one.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Generally in the past, the Punch had 12 dB crossovers and were stout. The Power series had 24 dB crossovers and a little more stouter than the Punch series.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

wow..they look pretty much the same....but like it was said...in todays market who knows without testing or inside info...

I was told by someone who knows that the Pioneer decks of old were all the same between the regular and the PREMIER ....you got a slightly different face sometimes with the Premier and maybe higher voltage on the premier supposedly but otherwise it was mostly just bs. this from someone who engineered them

so its not out of the question


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I would just by the cheaper one.


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## FLAstrongman (Sep 22, 2010)

I would not buy any new RF products personally. Find a nice used one


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Me too..... But the condition of the old amps will be a setback sometimes.


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