# What type of capacitor do i need and how many fuses ?



## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

I have a kenwood 2 channel AMP 400 watts a 1000watts Kenwood 8104D monoblock, 4 kenwood component speakers and a Polk DB 1240 720 watts 12inch subwoofer.

Do I need a 1 farad or 1.5 farad capacitor ? How many fuses do I need ? which gauge/AWG wires should I get ? Where/how should the capacitors/fuses be placed/installed

Also my lights flicker/dim when the system is running. would the capacitors/fuses fix this ?


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Basic Car Audio Electronics


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## austin4heatwave (Feb 22, 2009)

a cap will only help to clean up your electrical system(voltage stablization). you really need to upgrade you electrical system first a cap is more or less a bandaid. try upgrading the magic 3 wires and get a better battery i like kinetik. i had a similar problem in my mitsu galant i swapped out my stock batt for a kinetik and it solved my issue. open the plastic caps on your battery and look inside to see if you have corrosion or if the fluid is low. please be careful when taking the caps off and wash your hands when your done



Hot_Sauce said:


> I have a kenwood 2 channel AMP 400 watts a 1000watts Kenwood 8104D monoblock, 4 kenwood component speakers and a Polk DB 1240 720 watts 12inch subwoofer.
> 
> Do I need a 1 farad or 1.5 farad capacitor ? How many fuses do I need ? which gauge/AWG wires should I get ? Where/how should the capacitors/fuses be placed/installed
> 
> Also my lights flicker/dim when the system is running. would the capacitors/fuses fix this ?


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

azngotskills said:


> Basic Car Audio Electronics


That stuff just went over my head


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

austin4heatwave said:


> a cap will only help to clean up your electrical system(voltage stablization). you really need to upgrade you electrical system first a cap is more or less a bandaid. try upgrading the magic 3 wires and get a better battery i like kinetik. i had a similar problem in my mitsu galant i swapped out my stock batt for a kinetik and it solved my issue. open the plastic caps on your battery and look inside to see if you have corrosion or if the fluid is low. please be careful when taking the caps off and wash your hands when your done


What are the magic 3 voltage wires ? and where r they located ? and which wires should I buy to replace the magic 3 wires ?

Also how many watts/amp should the new battery be ? If I want to install a Capacitor how many do I need and of what capacity/volts ? How many fuses and where do I need them ?


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## austin4heatwave (Feb 22, 2009)

1) the + battery to alt
2) the - battery to ground (chassis)
3) the engine to ground (chassis)

i used extra 4 gauge wire i had. it should work fine for you

try inspecting your stock battery first


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

I've also heard that the capacitor puts more load on the alternator ? is this true ? 

So for the fuses, I need 2 fuse boxes right, 1 in between the red power wire going from the battery to mono amp and the other inbetween the red wire going from battery to my 2 channel amp right ?


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## austin4heatwave (Feb 22, 2009)

Hot_Sauce said:


> I've also heard that the capacitor puts more load on the alternator ? is this true ?
> 
> So for the fuses, I need 2 fuse boxes right, 1 in between the red power wire going from the battery to mono amp and the other inbetween the red wire going from battery to my 2 channel amp right ?


in my opinion a cap shouldnt put more strain on your system it stores and releases power. if i were you i would use 4 gauge power wire from the battery to where ever you are mounting the amps and then use a d block to make the runs to your amps. you only need one fuse holder under the the hood


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

austin4heatwave said:


> in my opinion a cap shouldnt put more strain on your system it stores and releases power. if i were you i would use 4 gauge power wire from the battery to where ever you are mounting the amps and then use a d block to make the runs to your amps. you only need one fuse holder under the the hood


And where do I connect that fuse holder ? I mean both the amps have seperate power wires going to the battery ?!?!?!

Also 1 AMP has a 25A fuse and the other has a 10A fuse. So would it be better to place a 50A fuse in the fuse holder ? or a 35A fuse ?

What is a d block ?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

you need to fuse your power wire within 18" of the battery and every time you change gauges, like using a distro. as far as caps, someone posted this on here a long time ago and it's the easiest explanation i have ever seen.

_After studying a little history on large 1 Farad capacitors in car audio, you'd be amazed that they even sell at all. How useful are they? What do they really do? Will a Cap 'improve' my sound quality? Will it Prevent my lights from dimming? Will it audibly affect my audio system in any way?

Before you get the truth to any of the above questions, chances are, you've probably spent $100 or more on one of these devices. However, let's study a little history regarding this issue.

A long time ago, in a land far away, 2 elves...Ok, Richard Clark & Wayne Harris (Carsound magazine and the inventor of DB Drag, respectively) separately came up with a solution to preventing their lights from dimming.

WHO WERE THESE GUYZ?

As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )

Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).

Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.

As you may know, amplifiers are made up a bank of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.

Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.

Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board. However, what did this really accomplish? Let's start here:

WHAT IS A CAPACITOR?

Basically, capacitors are an energy storage device. Large, 1 Farad or more
capacitors store energy (electrons) between their plates. Capacitors differ
from batteries because batteries store energy in the form of chemical
energy--and rely on acid and lead plates, as the place of storage. For a more detailed
description of a capacitor, go here:

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm

Then on the right hand side, scroll down to CAPACITOR. Keep in mind the use
of capacitors in an audio system.

WHY DO PEOPLE BUY CAPACITORS?

The number 1 reason would have to be because their lights dim when their
system is playing HARD. In car audio, we are told that a capacitor is
designed to prevent the voltage drop associated with your lights dimming.
The number2 reason is that it is rumored to 'improve' sound quality or
'stiffen' the power supply/source.

WHY DO MY LIGHTS DIM?

Headlights brightness is in direct proportion to the source voltage. For
instance, if your car is running, system voltage is ~12.5 -14.4 VOLTS. Your
lights will be much brighter than when your car is turned off--where battery
voltage is ~12V. Most car alternators put out between 75 to 120 amps of
current. When this current draw threshold of the charging system is
exceeded, system voltage will drop as power demands are now shared by the
alternator and the storage devices (battery & cap). We are using battery
reserves beyond this point until the demand lessens

When playing your system really hard. Your lights dim because your
alternator can't keep up it's charging voltage (around 13.5V) and therefore,
demand exceeds output. When this happens, your electronic devices are
dipping into the power storage of the battery. Since the battery stores
power at ~ 12-12.5V, there is a 1.3 to 1.8V drop in voltage available. This
in turn is why your lights dim down.

HOW MUCH POWER DOES A CAPACITOR STORE?

1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second
850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads

For storage purposes, you'd need ~2,200 1 Farad capacitors to equal the energy of your battery.

Due to its impedence (ESR & ESL), a cap's energy is only 50% available. What's worse, is that in order for a 1 Farad cap to discharge, first the alternator output must have maxed out, and the voltage must have dropped around 1.5 volts. But I thought a cap was supposed to prevent that (voltage drop)!!!!!????? Yep, you got the point.


IF A BATTERY = 2,200 CAPS, THEN WHY BUY A (PUNY) CAP?

My question exactly. Marketing is the reason why people buy caps. In many cases, upgrading wiring will help your system get the maximum transfer of current. Once that has been reached, adding a capacitor may have a minor effect on your system. 50W over the course of a second is not a lot of power considering an amplifier may draw 2000W to put out 1400 watts. Let's look at the situation from a resources standpoint.

Alternator 80 amps
Car accessories (minus stereo) 40 amps
A large Car Audio system (DRAWS ) ~200 amps AT FULL OUTPUT

In this case, you have 240 amps of draw, but only 80 amps of current from the alternator. In your case, you need 160 amps x 12 volts or or let's say 1920 watts of energy. Since a cap stores 50W, how much of a difference do you think it's going to make? A cap is basically a peashooter. W+e need a Howitzer cannon here, to do the job well.

Also, Once a cap is discharged, where does it get it's power from? The alternator, which is already overloaded. Once a cap is discharged, it's worthless. Like SWEZ says, ・.The cap already shot its wad, an does limp til recharged・ I知 not so certain I will allow him to babysit my kids, but you get the drift. (I never said it quiet like that... and oh...I'm great with kids!)

SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

1. Audio Jewelry- impress chicks with large cylindrical shiny thingy
2. Extra weight in winter time
3. A very POOR... BUT expensive distribution block
4. A projectile in the event of a crash
5. Rolling pin--for cooking purposes
6. A neat thing to tell your friend, "..Hey man, lick the top of this..


Please do not try # 6. New hairstyles are always refreshing, but if you are wearing railroad tracks across your teeth, you might have one big filling after it痴 over.

HOW CAN CAPACITORS IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY?

They can't. Sound quality is not dependant upon the presence of large bulky 1 Farad capacitors. How many 1 Farad Capacitors do you think the Boston Pops, Aerosmith, or Snoop dog use in the recording studio?

IN A NUTSHELL.......

When Richard, our fearless inventor, became World renown for winning every competition under the sun, people began copying what he did. Soon, every 'serious' competitor had a 'stiffening' capacitor--not to be confused with the 'loosening' capacitor.

WHY?

In the late 80s, people began sticking out their tongue when dunking the basketball because Michael Jordan did. Did sticking out your tongue improve your dunking ability? Same here with adding a capacitor to your electrical system.


In a final note, Richard relayed a quote regarding battcaps as, "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." when referring to the product. This also relates to most digital readout capacitors, and I wish my Archie Bunker skills could have said it better myself._


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## austin4heatwave (Feb 22, 2009)

Hot_Sauce said:


> And where do I connect that fuse holder ? I mean both the amps have seperate power wires going to the battery ?!?!?!
> 
> Also 1 AMP has a 25A fuse and the other has a 10A fuse. So would it be better to place a 50A fuse in the fuse holder ? or a 35A fuse ?
> 
> What is a d block ?


Distribution Block, Fuse Blocks

these are d blocks power from battery goes in one side two wire go out the other side


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

Why do you think you need a 'cap'? If you are having problems with dimming lights you should have bought a better amp.

>^..^<


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

Catman said:


> Why do you think you need a 'cap'? If you are having problems with dimming lights you should have bought a better amp.
> 
> >^..^<


huh? the brand of amp doesn't dictate if the lights will dim.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

nineball said:


> huh? the brand of amp doesn't dictate if the lights will dim.


An amp needs a given amount of capacitance (instant available power) to produce a certain frequency at a certain output level. If an amp has a poorly designed internal power supply it will likely not have enough capacitors. If you are having problems with dimming lights it is because the amp doesn't have enough capacitance and the amp is pulling the power needed from the electrical system of the car. This is why people 'need' a cap. A battery stores huge amounts of energy but it cannot release it fast enough to satisfy the instant needs (so bigger / multiple batteries are a waste) ...a high output alternator takes at least half a second to increase output ...by that time the bass note that triggered the dimming lights is already over.

I'm running 1000W McIntosh amp in a Miata with the stock alternator and stock battery and have never had an issue with dimming lights. I have old school Nakamichi amps in another Miata (~800W) and have no issues.

One way for amp mfgs to cut corners is in the P/S. They know the kids these days are going to install a cap because it is cool. They increase profits on the amp because they made it cheaper ...and in some cases they sell a cap to 'fix' their shortcuts. I also do imply it is only 'cheap' amps that do this ...I've had JL amps cause dimming ...I've had Sony and Clarion amps cause dimming lights as well. The Orion HCCA amps have not caused any dimming in my systems.

>^..^<


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

Can I solder in capacitors in my kenwood amp ? My brother is an electrical engineer im sure it would be an easy task for elec. engineers ?


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## SHOToonz (Sep 18, 2007)

read that really long post up yonder again and then upgrade the 3 wires already mentioned.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

Catman said:


> An amp needs a given amount of capacitance (instant available power) to produce a certain frequency at a certain output level. If an amp has a poorly designed internal power supply it will likely not have enough capacitors. If you are having problems with dimming lights it is because the amp doesn't have enough capacitance and the amp is pulling the power needed from the electrical system of the car. This is why people 'need' a cap. A battery stores huge amounts of energy but it cannot release it fast enough to satisfy the instant needs (so bigger / multiple batteries are a waste) ...a high output alternator takes at least half a second to increase output ...by that time the bass note that triggered the dimming lights is already over.
> 
> I'm running 1000W McIntosh amp in a Miata with the stock alternator and stock battery and have never had an issue with dimming lights. I have old school Nakamichi amps in another Miata (~800W) and have no issues.
> 
> ...



i think it's quite obvious the OP does not have any macs. nice post but doesn't really apply to this situation.


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