# SQ car audio system completely based on TRU amps



## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

Hi,

i come from Italy and i am a car audio enthusiast.

Let's go straight to the point: i am trying to build a complete sq car audio system based on TRU technology amp (if i do not make a mistake it would be the only one in Europe..) but i need your help. I consider them very high quality and i love own rare things. 

I have a Jl 12w7 subwoofer which i would use with a hammer amp. How would you rate this amp? which are the differences between the standard versione and the copper one? Is different only the heatsink or also the cicuits?

At the front i have a 2 way Morel supremo system (with 9" woofers, in the future upgradable to a 3 way): how do you consider a c7.2 amp for the woofers (maybe the version with tube preamp)?

For the tweeters (supremo piccolo) i saw the AC 1 amp which is an a class one and it is superb: is the only one i've listened (i think there a 2 of these amp in Italy) and it is simply amazing.

Headunit is an Alpine 7990 with a tweaked pxa 700 (master clock, capacitors, operationals...changed)


If the Ac 1 is steady point, which are your opinions of the other two amps? I search quality but also dynamic, not "only small bells"

Thank you


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

The Copper series are upgrades of the standard Billet series. With the early models, however, the differences are minor, but yes they include circuits. If you want to throw money at your project, the Copper Hammer is prettier, but let's be real, this is a sub amp. You don't need an SQ amp on a sub. It's silly. It's a wonderful amp. A regular Hammer would be all you need.

You are unlikely to find a C-7.2. I have never seen one for sale. I don't know how many they made, but I could probably count them on my hands. I also don't think it's enough power. Morel's love power. If you want a Copper, get a C-7.4 and bridge it. That will give you 550x2 for the Supremo 9s. Remember, you don't have to use all the power, but it's nice to have it for headroom. The 200x2 of the C-7.2 is not enough in my opinion.

If you can afford the AC-1, go for it. I've only seen two for sale ever and the cheapest went for $2,200 I think. If I had the money I would get either that or a Genesis DMA for my Piccolos.

The Trus Coppers are the finest amps I have ever heard and also the sexiest. If you don't mind the cost, you will be very happy with your system.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

Thank you for your answer.

I found a c7.2 for sale in the classifieds section but it was an old thread 8it was sold for "only" 880$ )
I think that its power sould bemore than enough to drive the woofers, more than 200w per channel are not few, but for me is more important its quality. I read that they it a very neutral sound, is it tru?

I do not agree with you when you write that i do not need a SQ amp fpr a sub: a good class a/b amp cannot be compared with a class d one! 
Anyway how does a hammer compare, for example, with a zapco z600?


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

find an abyss dealer if you can. might be a better way to go.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

BigRed said:


> find an abyss dealer if you can. might be a better way to go.



which kind of dealer are they?


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

EvoTME said:


> which kind of dealer are they?


http://en.iabyss.co.kr/product/product.html


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

EvoTME said:


> which kind of dealer are they?


Abyss builds the amps that Tru copied their designs off of, and they're built in Korea, so they might be much easier for you to get than Tru amps built here.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

THANK YOU!

Man, I’ve been trying to think of the company that made this headunit for a long time and could not for the life of me remember.
WELCOME ABYSS INTERNATIONAL!!

So, anyone know dealers?


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

I have just checked the abyiss web site and their products are very very interesting!! BUT: where can be found????


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

My point is that you don't need WIMA film caps on a sub amp. The standard Hammer is more than enough. The Copper is just a waste of money. I would argue that a class D is more than enough to a sub too, but the standard Hammer will make you very happy.

More power = better SQ. The music will retain its dynamics. I have 150w to each of my Supremo SW6 from my C-7.4 and I can tell you that this is nowhere near enough. When I ran them from my Linear Power 2.2 they were getting just the right amount of power and it makes more than a C-7.2. You have the even more power hungry SW9. You don't need 550w x 2, but I would rather have too much than too little, and I can tell you from experience that 200w x 2 is not enough to truly enjoy the SW9. 300w x 2 would be great for them, but that's not an option with Tru Coppers.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

in fact c7.2 is 250w x2, i think it is quite underrated and sw9 are less than 4 ohm..i currently use a zapco studio 500 LE (same 250w declared) and i do not have the need to have more power


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

LoL I love the Abyss = TRU threads ....


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

maybe i have found and abyss dealer here in Italy...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

6spdcoupe said:


> LoL I love the Abyss = TRU threads ....


Lucky for you they never seem to die...


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Lucky for you they never seem to die...


It's usually the ones that _think_ they know what they are saying to be true that humor me the most. What is sad is that it is misleading to the consumer.

Lose- Lose for me though since if I start to debate it, then I am a fan boy or a 'pusher' of their products - having an affiliation with them of course also typically makes me biased too, blah blah blah.  If I just let it go, then I let the consumer be mislead.

I normally end up choosing the latter though just to avoid stirring up drama.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

This is the 1st time I have heard about abyss-tru thing.

If you do not want to say anything else. Someone PM what the actual deal is.

They do appear similiar but so do a lot of other products.


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

From what I understood the coppers were quite an old series, and the word was that the newer billets are actually superior to the coppers.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, if Tru had not stolen Abyss's designs, there would be no Tru-Abyss thing.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

This is an old story and we will not ever know what happend in reality

What is important is that both brands are of excellent quality. Is Abyss imported in USA now? Are there any dealer?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I have never seen an Abyss dealer here and I think it's unlikely that they will come here. 

Regardless, yes, both are excellent amps although TRU has updated their amp designs while Abyss seems to be making the same amps from 12 years ago.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Luke352 said:


> From what I understood the coppers were quite an old series, and the word was that the newer billets are actually superior to the coppers.


If you are talking a Super Billet with a Stage III upgrade sure, but they are also 3x the price of NIB C7s that run about $1,200 on ebay. 

You'd be better off buying a used Copper and sending it to TRU for an upgrade for 1/3 the price of a new Billet Stage III.

I have never seen a more finely constructed amp than the Tru Copper. The time and forethought that went into its construction is unparalleled.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

which is the top of the line of tru now?

Which kind of upgrade did oyu mena when you talk about copper? I only know that they could be 4 or 2 channel, with tube preamp or completely tube


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

There will be a newly redesigned Copper series soon which will be the top line. The new Coppers will be a modular design like the Billets with a interchangable preamp stage. They will have a standard Burr Brown preamp stage, a tube preamp stage, and one with no preamp at all, just straight amplification.

You can have an older Copper upgraded with some newer components. I doubt they would change out that many.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Well, if Tru had not stolen Abyss's designs, there would be no Tru-Abyss thing.




Judging by the smiley, I would assume that you were joking ?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Mooble said:


> I have never seen an Abyss dealer here and I think it's unlikely that they will come here.
> 
> Regardless, yes, both are excellent amps although TRU has updated their amp designs while Abyss seems to be making the same amps from 12 years ago.



Actually from 8 yrs ago and there is much reasoning behind them still being behind.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Mooble said:


> If you are talking a Super Billet with a Stage III upgrade sure, but they are also 3x the price of NIB C7s that run about $1,200 on ebay.
> 
> You'd be better off buying a used Copper and sending it to TRU for an upgrade for 1/3 the price of a new Billet Stage III.
> 
> I have never seen a more finely constructed amp than the Tru Copper. The time and forethought that went into its construction is unparalleled.


Would you really want to drop 1200 on a product that *could* have an issue ? No warranty support for that it is alot of coin.

C'mon be a little bit fair here .. a brand new Stage III super billet Vs a used Copper on fleabay ? Compare new to new or old to old, but not fair at all to compare to to old/used/fleabayed.


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## jayhawkblk (May 29, 2007)

EvoTME said:


> which is the top of the line of tru now?
> 
> Which kind of upgrade did oyu mena when you talk about copper? I only know that they could be 4 or 2 channel, with tube preamp or completely tube


As of right now the Super Billets are the top of the line. Until the new coppers are produced. I love my B8's


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

wow and do you know when approximately new copper will be available?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

EvoTME said:


> wow and do you know when approximately new copper will be avilable?


2010


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Just don't ask how much. I would imagine they would be pushing close to $4k, at least the tube anyway.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

Mooble said:


> Just don't ask how much. I would imagine they would be pushing close to $4k, at least the tube anyway.


Around 2900 euro...less than an audison HV20 tough 

Anyway a lot of money..

I have some prices of the abyss/zelos (check their web site to see each model):

MINI AA 720 euro 2 channels (800 euro 4 channels)
Callisto-A 990
Callisto-A 3320 (4 channels)
Callito 3330
Full tube 100 3200 (2 channels)
Zelos class a 2970 (2 channles)


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

6spdcoupe said:


> Judging by the smiley, I would assume that you were joking ?


Of course I was joking. In fact, I did this as an audio slogan on another car audio forum:

Abyss: "Tru ripped us off"

Tru: "Abyss deserved every inch of cawk that we gave them"

Plus my all time favorite:

Audiobahn - Proof that you could polish a turd before MythBusters did it!


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

Can anybody help me finding a tru c7 2 channel? unfortunately i can still not post in the classifieds section..thank you


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I search for Tru pretty much every day on ebay and in the forums. Believe me when I say that I have never seen a single C7.2 for sale in years of searching.

I have seen one all-tube C7 for sale and one tube pre-amp C7, both by the same seller in Chicago I think, but that was months ago.

Tristan had a C7.2 at one time judging by this picture (top left appears to be a two channel) http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/35211/page/1/fpart/12
He was selling off some of his non-rare amps, but since the C7.2 is one of the rarest amps I know of, I doubt he's going part with it. If not for the C7 manual, I would have no evidence that the C7.2 ever existed.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

it is a real pity! So we are searching the same amp! I have written an email to abyss but the have not replyed me! what do you suggest?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

You might find the C7.2T. I do see them from time to time, but not in several months. I think a hybrid tube design is just a gimmick, but it wouldn't sound any worse than the regular C7.2. If not that, you might need to wait until the new Coppers come out. I really don't think you will ever find a standard C7.2 for sale.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Hmm, this guy actually had a C7.2 and sold it: ICIXSound.COM Forums - TRU Copper C7 and C7.2 w/ Bonus Items!

He might remember who bought it.

He also had a Tru stiffening cap which I have never seen in my life.


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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)

Hi, I have had all of them, cant remember who i sold the C7.2 to, but it does come with a CAP for extra juice. Some of the Copper amps have that feature to add an external CAP

Currently I have the following left

2 Class A's AC-1
1 C7.2AT All tube
1 C7.4T Tube hybrid version of the C7.4


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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)

Oh Pics dont do the Class a's justice. The amp is ENORMOUS!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

tristan20 said:


> The amp is ENORMOUS!


It can't be a bigger footprint than the px/a. I hurt my back carrying that damn thing the wrong way. :blush:


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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)

Here are some pics

Included pics of the C7.2 and insides, also the CAP and a rare C2


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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)




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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)

Mooble said:


> It can't be a bigger footprint than the px/a. I hurt my back carrying that damn thing the wrong way. :blush:


hehe PX/a is a monster huge amp. Wish they made handles on the crate, not many amps are bigger than that. Only one that comes to mind is JBL 6000

Want a second PXa? Hehe I am selling mines :laugh:


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

tristan20 said:


> hehe PX/a is a monster huge amp. Wish they made handles on the crate, not many amps are bigger than that. Only one that comes to mind is JBL 6000
> 
> Want a second PXa? Hehe I am selling mines :laugh:


68 lbs of crate and amp.

Mine needs repairs.  I got it working again and then some caps started smokin'. :surprised:


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

wow tristan you have the heaven of amplifers!!

do you sell one of your AC-1? 


which kind of amp is the one with the woodden heatsink? is it a zelos?


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

Those Tru amps are amazing looking. No doubt about it.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

yeah they are truly amazing!!

the c7.2 was soldo for 1250$..it was a real bargain!!


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

They are too beautiful to be in a car!


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## Bom (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi Tristan,

You envy me again with Tru collection. How is the Nak DAC1000? 

EvoTME,

If you love TRU especially the Copper series, I suggest you see the actual amp first. I bought C7-4 few years ago and when open the box, I found that it is the worst amp in term of building quality. It sounds ok but unacceptable for the finishing so I sold it.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

are you sure? they look amazing in pics!


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Bom said:


> Hi Tristan,
> 
> You envy me again with Tru collection. How is the Nak DAC1000?
> 
> ...


That is the absolute first time I have ever heard anything remote close to such a statement. 

Perhaps you got an Abyss with TRU logos on it ? :laugh:


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Bom said:


> If you love TRU especially the Copper series, I suggest you see the actual amp first. I bought C7-4 few years ago and when open the box, I found that it is the worst amp in term of building quality. It sounds ok but unacceptable for the finishing so I sold it.


Are you kidding me?  

I have never in my life seen a better looking amp in terms of construction. Never. I can only assume you had a fake. I cannot fathom how you could say that. The Tru is certainly not cheap, but it is still far better constructed than $5k amps.

What would possibly make you say this? Every FET is perfectly spaced and tapped individually into the heatsink. No cheap bus bars for this amp. The layout is perfectly planned and executed. The conectors are rock solid. The aluminum end plates are at least 1.5mm thick and all connectors are mounted directly to them. You could hit them with a hammer and they won't dent. Build quality could not be better than the C7.

This is like saying a Maybach has the worst fit and finish of any car on the market. I've never heard a statement more antithetically opposed to the truth.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Really???


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

EvoTME, contact this seller on ebay. He is the one who sold an all-tube and a hybrid tube C7 several months ago. He says he has four C7s for sale now. 

Tru Technology C7.4 Rare Made In The US New In The Box - eBay (item 270419175306 end time Jul-11-09 12:39:32 PDT)


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Both were from the factory. The gold ones were the originals, but they gain pots were often replaced as part of a factory upgrade and then you got the black ones. The later models may all have gotten the black knobs.


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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)

There were noise issues with the gold pots, thats why the later versions used the newer black pots


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

thank you Mooble for the link. But now my attention is on a AC 1..


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

EvoTME said:


> thank you Mooble for the link. But now my attention is on a AC 1..


THAT my friend will cost you some coin. Although for the right amount Im sure either I or Tristan could be convinced to part.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

6spdcoupe said:


> THAT my friend will cost you some coin. Although for the right amount Im sure either I or Tristan could be convinced to part.



yeah, JUT some coin..you are right  but i think it worths evry single cent


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Shoot a number, we may part.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

what do you mean?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Care to make an offer on one ?


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

tristan has one..or better 2!!


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

EvoTME said:


> tristan has one..or better 2!!


I know, I mentioned that a few posts back. The one where I said either he or I could be convinced to part with one for the right price ...


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm sorry but i do not understand you where you write "either he or I could be convinced to part with one for the right price". I do not know the meaning of the verb to part for..sorry

could you explain with other words? Thank you


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Make him an offer and if the price is acceptable, he will sell. 

There are so few of these that it's a seller's market. I forget how much the last one went for on ebay. I think it was $2,500ish. There was one for sale in Australia for $6,000. 

I know you like the Tru, but it's not like the AC-1 looks anything like the other Trus. If you are set on a high bias class A, why not the Genesis DMA? You can still find those fairly easily and for a lot less.

You do realize that Tru will build custom amps, right? You could commission them to make a high bias class A in a copper heatsink or something like that.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

let me understand: 6spdcoupe has a Ac1 on sale?

genesis dma coul not be compared to this amp, genesis is like silver and ac 1 is like gold...Altough silver is precious, gold is better , and, dma are so common in Italy and, actually, not that much cheaper than tru


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Like most of us, he does not want to sell a precious amp, but if someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse... 

Maybe you can find him a second HSS Fidelity and he would trade.


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## EvoTME (Jun 18, 2009)

Which kind of HSS? These amps are still quite rare to find also here in Italy..and they come at a cost, Much simpler is to find a D/A converter


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## Bom (Jul 5, 2007)

I don't know whether my amp is fake or not. I have never seen any other Tru Copper amp except mine. From waht I know, the initial Copper series were made by Abyss in Korea and assembly in USA. That's why Abyss's amps are similar to Tru's but different parts internal. My amp looks exactly to the picture shown above. 

Mooble,
Do you have other pictures? especially close up on volume pots, rca connectors, and speaker terminals.


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## Bom (Jul 5, 2007)

I found pictures I took few years ago. Do you think it's fake one? I bought this amp from Japan.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

yes, fake.


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

Care to go more into depth on how it's a fake? 




farshad said:


> yes, fake.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Bom said:


> I found pictures I took few years ago. Do you think it's fake one? I bought this amp from Japan.


This is weird. I never noticed this before, but there were two different boards on purported "Tru" C7s. I know the one like mine, that doesn't have all those random holes in the board, is genuine because it is the same board as the one that was sent to Car Audio and Electronics magazine for review-- http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0311cae_tru_technology_c7_car_audio_amplifier/index.html I think mine is also S/N #2. I don't know what the other one is all about. You can see the subtle differences between boards here: http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/TRU_C7/

Some are like yours, the others are like mine. The one with grommets is a board like yours. Since no Tru had grommets in the heatsink, this one is puzzling. The second one also has the same board as yours. The rest of the internal pictures (except for the one on tile) were taken by Car Audio and Electronics and must be genuine. 

I don't know what yours was. Maybe it was sourced from Abyss. Maybe Tru switched boards somewhere along the line, or maybe it was an outright fake.  All those random holes in the board are certainly disconcerting.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

starboy869 said:


> Care to go more into depth on how it's a fake?


Just Kidding!


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Could some one post some authentic TRU and some Counterfit TRU amps pics? Also what other amps use WIMA caps besides TRU and LP?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

The pics in the CA&E link are obviously genuine as is the one I posted. The first two of the ROE link are--different. I don't know if they are fake or not, but they are not the same as the known genuine ones.

WIMA caps: Tru, Brax, some LP, DLS TA2, Sinfoni, some Helix, Monolithic, PG ZPA, Steg (I think), others...


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## Bom (Jul 5, 2007)

I just sent mail to Tru Tech. Hope they will get back to me soon. Will keep update


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## tristan20 (Nov 28, 2005)

There are no FAKE Tru amps as far as I know

There are different versions of the same amps, some had upgrades some were early models etc.

If you want more info PM me


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## Bom (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi,

This is a reply mail from Tru.



Hello Korn,
The pictures of the amplifier you showed me is an original C7 copper, first
production run. This is the predecessor to the C7.4. 

The reason for the differences you may find between this amplifier and the
C7.4 is that the C7 amplifier only lasted one production run before board
modifications and parts upgrades were made. Though they may look similar
there are many differences between a C7 and a C7.4.

As far as I am aware I do not know of any fake Copper amplifiers. The best
way to make sure is to do just as you did and send us pictures of the
amplifiers along with the serial #.

Regards,
Dave Crigna

------------------------------------
David Crigna
[email protected]
Tru Technology
3634 Foothill Blvd.
La Crescenta, CA 91214
tel: 818-248-6590
fax: 818-475-1670
TRU Technology
------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Korn Chusanachoti [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Tru Copper amp question

Hello,

I purchased the Tru Copper C7-4 amp from Japan few years ago. I found that
the building quality is very bad. Amp was sold after I bought it because its
building quality was unacceptable. However, I did take photoes of it. I
discussed with other Tru user in DIY mobile audio board about this amp but
has no conclusion.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...audio-system-completely-based-tru-amps-4.html

It will be very helpful if you will verify this amp for me. or give me
suggestion how to justify the authetic of your product so I will post to the
board for other people to know and aware of fake products.

best regards,
Korn


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

That's strange. I always thought I had the earliest model. Maybe mine is S/N #2 of the C-7.4s, not the C-7s.


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## Bom (Jul 5, 2007)

More info....


Yes I did, and it looks like John Fairchild's writing to me.
The first production run of coppers, the serial #'s were hand written, later
on with the C7.4 the bar code serial #'s were used. 

------------------------------------
David Crigna
[email protected]
Tru Technology
3634 Foothill Blvd.
La Crescenta, CA 91214
tel: 818-248-6590
fax: 818-475-1670
TRU Technology
------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Korn Chusanachoti [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:30 PM
To: Dave Crigna
Subject: RE: Tru Copper amp question


Hello,

Thank you for your information. I sold amp 2 years ago so I don't have
serial number. I think from picture, there is a sticker with serial number
on the PCB. It's a hand writing. Can you see from pictures?

best regards,
Korn


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