# 2013 Chevy Camaro - My 100th Build Log Commemoration



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Alright guys... It’s time. This is probably going to be one of the quickest, and badassest system I've done to date. I've gone through a lot over the last few years, and I feel like this build will be the grand culmination of things I've learned from my own experience. Subscribe and join the ride  

My interests in musical reproduction is all about life like concert quality sound. I’m not a huge spl fan unless the performance calls for it. I’m not a huge “gentle and docile” fan unless the music calls for it. What I've found in my experience with car audio is that it’s really dang hard to create a system that can have huge dynamics _and_ great tonality, staging, etc. Almost always, these two are at combat with each other. The products I have chosen for this build I believe will get me exactly what I am looking for - both great dynamics, killer impact _and_ good staging and tonality. 

First, the car. 

Brand spankin’ new 2013 Cevy Camaro 2SS 1LE. (the 1LE gives me upgraded suspension components, upgraded brakes, upgraded exhaust, updated looks, and a few go fast goodies that the big brother ZL1 has. This car drives totally different than a regular SS, and I mean that in a good way  ) 

I never took any good original shots, but the first thing I did was to debadge the SS emblems, and black out the tail light shrouds and Chevy Bowties. I’m not normally a fan of “ghetto” supplies, but I used PlastiDip and it all turned out quite nicely. Here are a few before, in progress, and then after, as well as some good ole car porn!









































































(oh my, how did she get in here... woops...  )







So, let’s do a quick rundown of what’s going in... 

Headunit - Factory Deck (completely integrated touch screen)

Processor - Audison BitOne (ole faithful for me  )

Speakers:
Tweets - ID Mini Horn Bodies mated to BMS 4552nd Neo Compression Drivers
Midrange - Audax PR170MO
Midbass - JBL 2206h (hoping to do them ported)
Subs - 2 -AE SBP15 (running IB )

Amps: 
Mosconi A Class - Horns
Mosconi AS 200.4 - Midbasses bridged
Mosconi AS 200.4 - Subs (bridged) and Mids

Wiring: 
Streetwires D-Blocks/Fuse holders
Knu Concepts Fleks Cable OFC Power Wires
Stinger Twisted speaker wires
Knu Concepts Krystal RCA Interconnects

Deadening:
Sound Deadener Showdown:
⅛” Closed Cell Foam
⅛: Mass Loaded Vinyl
CLD Tiles
3M Thinsulate
Butyl Rope

-this should be pretty fantastic


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## nucci (Mar 29, 2012)

First post!

I'm really eager to see where you go with this.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Sounds like a damn fitting system for one of Oshawa's finest! :thumbsup:


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## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Coolio, I'll be watching this... subscribed!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Prior to getting this car, I thought for sure I was done with this hobby... that lasted all of about 3 weeks, but it was enough time for me to donate my build supplies and misc materials that I had in the garage to other people that could benefit. After driving this car for approximately 1 hour, I decided that the factory Boston system wasn't going to cut it. That meant I also need to reacquire all the stuffs that I need to complete the install.

Over the last couple of weeks, all of my gear has been coming in. One of the more exciting (to me) things I was looking forward to was all the deadening supplies I ordered from Don at SDS. (quick note about Don: he’s super helpful, straight shooter, and if you tell him what you are looking for and expecting, he’ll get you all the right stuff - great customer service from this guy!) Why was I looking forward to it? Well, this car is loud. Some of it is on purpose (the exhaust is heavenly), the other is because the factory saw it fit to not treat the car at all. Which I suppose is fine, as the car is supposed to be “fast” and we don’t need to unnecessarily weigh it down. 

However, when I want to, I want to cruise in silence. I want to car to be tomb like. And from the factory, it’s waay too noisy. Today, we commenced the start of this build, focusing first on the quieting of the car. 

For half the day, I was able to remove all necessary interior trim (minus the carpet - have to do that tomorrow), drop the headliner, and get started on getting the car quiet. ( I will say, working on Chevy interiors is a breeze compared to BMW's... wow!)

For the headliner, Don recommended 25% coverage with the CLD Tiles, and then to treat the entire roof with 3M Thinsulate. 

The roof at 25% coverage:










and a quick video... this is the first time I heeded the 25% coverage rule. I always thought that you have to cover everything, and this is simply not true, and it also makes for a very expensive waste of money. The video is with 4 tiles on one side of the roof, and then nothing on the other. I was quite surprised at how much just a few tiles can do: (click to play)



Now from the factory, the headliner did some with something... seemed like a stiff batting (like the material used in quilts or pillows). I’m not certain it really did anything, but here’s a quick comparo with the Thinsulate and the factory solution. 



















And finally, I got the roof completely covered with the 3M material. Looks so purty  :










Since I'm not doing anything with the A-Pillars, I threw in a few squares of CLD, and also included some Thinsulate and put them back in the car as well:










And one final video after I got the headliner back up and buttoned everything up: (click to play)



I'm quite impressed with the results. All told, time spent actually deadening and laying down the Thinsulate was probably about 30 -45 minutes... it took me as much time just to button up the headliner once it was done. And the results that come from just a quick bit of work.. Like I said, I'm surprised. I hope when it comes to driving, that this translates into real world value.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

While the headliner was down, I took the opportunity to run my DRC wire - give you guys a sneak peak as to where the remote is going to be installed:



















I also got to take a peak at the rear quarter panels, which is where I was planning on building some enclosures for the JBL midbasses. While I’m happy to finally confirm there should be enough room, I’m nervous about the complexity of the build out of these boxes. I will be doing some trimming of the sheet metal to open up the cavity, to give me more mounting depth as well as usable volume. There should be plenty of space when we are done, and the hope is that this will all allow the factory panel to be reinstalled and back in place as intended from the factory, just with a modified section for a grill. 





























Lastly, (and this will take some time) but I started to strip down the AS200.4’s paint. The A-Class is a brushed aluminum. The silver looking paint wasn’t matching, nor is it of any good quality. 

Here’s a few amp guts for you guys:




























Getting prepped for removing the finish:










And the start of the process:










After the first go around, I either waited too long to strip it, or I didn’t use enough of the stripper. I’ll have another go at them tomorrow and hopefully I’ll get better results.


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## Reyne (May 18, 2010)

Awesome build and car man. Tip when paint stripping. After applying stripper if you cover the parts with plastic it stops the stripper drying out. Gives a more agressive strip and when you remove the plastic it takes most of the stripper with it. Keen to see the rest of the build. And as for that other pic ...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ awesome tip man. I'll have to bag the amps up tomorrow and see how we fair!


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## Reyne (May 18, 2010)

Try smoothing the plastic down onto the wet stripper so theres minimal creases or air pockets. Hope this helps.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Nice car! Sub'd for a sweet install!


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Reyne said:


> After applying stripper if you cover the parts with plastic it stops the stripper drying out.



:laugh: Now THAT is a tip...


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Nice ride...


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## moparman79 (Jan 31, 2008)

Nice build, will sound killer. Also nice ride. I was thinking like you when I got my challenger, that I will leave the car stock. But since building customers cars with good systems and hearing my stock system, I caught the bug to do it in the challenger. Good luck with the build.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Nice car and it looks like a fun build.
I got lucky with the Mosconi amps...my truck is silver and the Dodge paint sucks too so they already matched. lol


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok guys, i need some help quick. this is stalling my whole timeline. i can't remove the carpet.  In the dash, there are two supports that extend down to the transmission tunnel, one on each side. unless i can figure out how to move these out of the way, my plan of deadening the car is in the ****ter. 




























please help!!! what do i do?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

here are two photos from an install done by JML and it loooks like those supports are still there:
http://www.jmlaudio.com/images/pictures/chevrolet/10 camaro 01/28.JPG
http://www.jmlaudio.com/images/pictures/chevrolet/10 camaro 01/23.JPG

same here, from another install:
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/383018_10150461881342703_2118939406_n.jpg

what am I missing?


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I'd just cut the carpet between the supports then split it right up the center of the trans tunnel. Once it goes back together it'll never be seen.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

really, just cut the carpet. isn't there less of a permanent solution like that?


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Pull the dash further apart until you can remove the support bars I suppose. If the others you posted got it out with the bars in place it's very likely they cut it too.

The carpet, as you well know I'm sure, is formed to the floor pan...so it'll lay just like it does now even with a couple of cuts in it...especially with the console holding it in place after re-assembly.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright, thanks dude!


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## stef600rr (Aug 5, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> alright, thanks dude!


very nice car!!!! congrats 

ps. is it a 749/999 in your avatar?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

stef600rr said:


> very nice car!!!! congrats
> 
> ps. is it a 749/999 in your avatar?


it WAS a 749s ... that's long since been sold


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'll be curious to see how you get the 15's in there. I have a 2010 coming in on Monday for 2 12w7's in an (obivously) custom box. I don't think I had 15" of height on any of the Camaros I've worked on. The last one I managed to get a box in with 12.75" of height, and didn't have much left after that. Yes, I understand the 15's will be IB.

Did you plastidip the hood?

Was the one pic the wife/gf? Better hope she doesn't see that one here, lol.

Jay


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Its amazing how quickly laying mlv/deadening will make you hate this hobby.


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> Its amazing how quickly laying mlv/deadening will make you hate this hobby.


bahhaahahahhha!! 

Yeah, I think a few of us will agree with you there on various ways, but indeed feel your pain.

Great job and although subjective, I was imprest with the results of the roof treatment.

KEEP GOING!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> I'll be curious to see how you get the 15's in there. I have a 2010 coming in on Monday for 2 12w7's in an (obivously) custom box. I don't think I had 15" of height on any of the Camaros I've worked on. The last one I managed to get a box in with 12.75" of height, and didn't have much left after that. Yes, I understand the 15's will be IB.
> 
> Did you plastidip the hood?
> 
> ...


yeah, it's not going to stand straight up, it will have to be slanted. there certainly isn't enough room to barely even do 12's in there, so... yeah. I'm anxious to see how I'm going to do it too 

The hood, spoiler, rims, etc... all from the factory like that. It's the first time I've bought a car are there are very few mods I have any interest in doing. 

No wife/gf... just a random chick. i have a whole screensaver full of random chicks


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

k, guys... not much to show for all the work I did today. the only thing I got out of this was a sore ass back  

This weekend's work came with a hard stop. I needed to be able to drive the car tomorrow, so I was really feeling the pressure with the deadening that I was doing. The goal for the weekend was to get the roof and pillars done, as well as run the DRC wire, and USB cable for the Bitone, reroute some wiring to make way for the horns on both kickpanels, and lastly, to deaden the floor... all needing to be buttoned up and capable of driving by tomorrow. 

I started early this morning, and didn't finish until 9 tonight. 

After freaking out about the carpet, I finally had everything squared away to get started with the deadening. 










I first rerouted the wires on both sides of the kickpanels... this is how they come:










moving them up and out of the way enables me to get the horns really wide, and pushed back pretty far as well...



















I was thinking about trimming this piece as well, to get the horns wider, but the recess, and the small diameter of the neo compression drivers allows me to get the horn mouth (vertical portion) almost flat with the body of the car, just aft of the kick panel recess. I'm looking forward to getting these hung. 

Now, because of the time crunch I didn't really take any shots except for two progress shots... It ain't pretty as it is mid progress, but when each side was finally completed, I do believe I'll hear some noticeable results. 



















Carpet, front seats and center console are now back in the car, and I took the car for a spin tonight. It feels good to drive it again. 

Last shot is where I put the usb for the bitone. It replaces a factory 12v outlet, so that made this pretty darn easy.


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## BumpaD_Z28 (Dec 12, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> (oh my, how did she get in here... woops...  )


LOVE the car and the install 

She's a nice random also lol !

~DaVe


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

What did you use for the USB port? I have a Clarion marine USB port/extension I bought a long time ago and will probably finally use in my current build.

Jay


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## xXTX_ChallengerXx (Oct 8, 2012)

Did you end up cutting the carpet or pulling more of the dash out? Loving the car!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pickup1 (May 6, 2008)

Very brave to start in on a brand new car...nice one at that..


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> What did you use for the USB port? I have a Clarion marine USB port/extension I bought a long time ago and will probably finally use in my current build.
> 
> Jay


Jay, I used the same one that I had in the BMW, but I'm not sure where it came from. That piece is from the install that Jon from Handcrafted Car Audio installed. 



xXTX_ChallengerXx said:


> Did you end up cutting the carpet or pulling more of the dash out? Loving the car!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cut the carpet. I tried to keep the cuts minimal, and in an unnoticeable area, so i would cut a few inches, pull more of the carpet out, cut some more, pull it out a bit, and then cut the final pieces and then it was all out. 



pickup1 said:


> Very brave to start in on a brand new car...nice one at that..


My ex will tell you that was one thing she hated the most  I'd tear into a car immediately after getting it. I think it's a sickness  haha


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

It might be PAC part number USBCBL?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow, the cable on the Pac piece looks REALLY long. The Clarion one is only like 3-6ft and it was like $28! I'll keep the Pac one in mind. Thanks.

Jay


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

the pac one is 6ft long. I have one for my caddy. I plan to mount it in the bottom of the Bpillar, so I can access it from the front of the vehicle when needed for tuning, or from the back seat when doing RTA competition


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## copter (Aug 10, 2011)

subscribed with a 2011 2SS/RS/LS3


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Sub'd I like where this is going


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

Sub'd I am interested as well! I have a lot of interior parts from a 2010 SS that I would be glad to get rid of if you're interested. Cheap.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Kellyo77 said:


> Sub'd I am interested as well! I have a lot of interior parts from a 2010 SS that I would be glad to get rid of if you're interested. Cheap.


do go on ...


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

>My ex will tell you

Please tell us this is not the wife pictured in your BMW thread. 

I agree that deadening is by far the lamest, most annoying part of the hobby. 
Even with what we've learned recently I still find the results kind of inconsistent as well.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Alright guys, I have a few days off, and I'm planning on killing this install... 

well, that's the plan at least. I seldom remember to plan for twice the amount of time i think something would take me... that's just how it goes. 

So, I think the most labor intensive part of the install will be the rear midbass boxes and integration... afterall, i am trying to get 1.5 cubes of volume so I can port these 12" behemoths  

so, this morning, after a quick trip to Home Depot I took to the rear quarter panels. 

After feeling around for any areas for structural reinforcement or any double thickness walls, I traced the area that I was planning on cutting. The sheet metal here was very thin, and no structural. Being that I've done enough installs in the past, and I may have had some qualms with cutting before... not a hesitation in the world this time. I took my reciprocating saw and went to town  





































these panels that are showing are the exterior panels, and as you can see, there is next to no factory dampening. In keeping with the 25% rule, I cut up some cld tiles and applied as necessary. The results, again, are more than expected.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Next up, I needed to figure out a way to take advantage of all this extra airspace. What I settled on was card board templates, that I would use to form a fiberglass mold. In using cardboard, I ensured that I wasn't butting up my fiberglass mold right against other panels, which then allows me the ability to insulate the enclosure with some foam... i'll probably use some extra 1/8" ccf I have, that way if the box ever does come into contact with another panel, resonances will not be something I'll be worried about...

First, the templates of the exterior wall:










and then taped in:



















then I started applying cardboard walls, with tape to make the form for my mold:



















before pulling them out, I used a sharpie on the outside of the boxes to determine where i should cut the molds to bring them flush to the interior metal parts. once this was done, I carefully pulled them out and reinforced them from the outside:


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I love tearing up new cars too 




I CAN NOT WAIT TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS MIDBASS SETUP!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Each of those is 1.5 cube? If so that is pretty nice


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

after getting all my supplies together for the fiberglassing, I started to tear into it. 










and then after a few layers of chop mat, I laid them out in the sun to cure:










I'll more than likely use some wood bracing to increase the structural strength of the glass. I know there are a lot of flat areas, but I wanted to maximize the amount of airspace that I was able to get ... I wasn't sure if I'd be able to hit my volume goal... (later you'll see this will be more than attainable  )

while those were curing, I turned my attention to the rear quarter panel plastics... I needed to make an opening for the midbasses, and I also wanted to see what type of internal airspace I would be working with. I taped off the panels following the stock contours of the panel and used my dremel to cut it out. 










once done, i sized it up against the 12" speaker, just to see what i'd be working with as far as available speaker mounting, and whether or not it'd be playing into the plastic at all... it looks like i made the opening just right.










one last thing to do, and that was to install the plastic to look at internal volume ... i'm happy to say I think I have more than enough...  



















the next few pictures I took as a "panaramic" type shot, (mostly for my conceptualization of how i'm going to finish this) and it goes all around the interior like a circle...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

edouble101 said:


> I love tearing up new cars too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm familiar with these already. Mikey1782 had a pair in an S10 as midbass, vented... it was hard to breathe.  He also had 3 W15gti subs vented as well, which i'm sure made it more difficult, but I suspect that I'll be nothing short of slap stick happy once I get everything up and running and tuned. IMO, there is no suitable replacement for displacement... the bigger speakers just simply have more impact. I think it's silly that people run their 6.5" speakers down to 63 hz... that's just absurd. 

the fact that i can fit these behind factory panels and have them hidden... that just tickles me like crazy. when all is said and done, the only thing visible at all, will be the IB sub wall. Everything else will have a stock appearance, and you can't normally do that with a HE speaker set up. I'm ecstatic.



pocket5s said:


> Each of those is 1.5 cube? If so that is pretty nice


the molds will probably net me .5 cubes... maybe a bit more. but when combined with some of the inner airspace, i'll have more than enough room.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

and here's another random, just for good measure


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## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Cutting into a brand new car... pure awesomeness!:rockon:

...random #2, a little thin, but nice shot nevertheless...


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You need to buy some UV curing resin like Solarez. 

Will fully cure in the sun light in about 4 minutes.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> Mikey1782 had a pair in an S10 as midbass, vented... it was hard to breathe.


I heard that thing myself.....it was intense. lol


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> You need to buy some UV curing resin like Solarez.
> 
> Will fully cure in the sun light in about 4 minutes.


it's pretty warm out here... mid 90's today  

i mixed the first batch a little hot, so one quarter panel is fully cured after 20 minutes or so  ... then the next panel i went a little light and it's not cured yet :surprised: we'll let it sit overnight and in the sun so i can continue...

either way, i don't think curing in 4 minutes would be very helpful to me now... i'd get about 3-4 pieces of chap layed down before they're cured, haha


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> I heard that thing myself.....it was intense. lol


when did you come down here... I don't remember meeting you at a meet??


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Alright guys, time to wrap it up for the night  

The passenger side quarter panel cured first, so I trimmed it up, tore off the cardboard (the stuff that I could), and then test fitted... looks pretty good. I need to hit it with a few more layers, but will do that after it's joined with the rest of the box. 



















I trimmed up the passenger plastic panel, and then inserted in the car for a test fit....










tomorrow, I'll spend some time masking both areas, and then starting on the rest of the mold.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

This last portion is the one that I'm most proud of for some reason... I think it will look dope when it's all finished, and I took my time to make sure the pieces were all fitting right and working together the way they were supposed to. 

I turned my attention to the "Central Command" panel, which is the over head unit. This contains the over head light, a mic for voicecommand and phone calls, home link garage buttons, and some stupid light that tells me whether or not the passenger side airbag is on... (as a side note, i don't even know why the law requires this... it's not like I care... I'm in the drivers side. Tell me if mine isn't working, you know.....)

Anyway... here is the unit with the light assembly already taken out:










after removing the airbag module and masking the unit and the DRC...



















after trimming a bit carefully, I think this is the angle I'm going to go with. I was wanting to angle it towards the driver some, but I think this works, and is symmetrical as well...










I used one of the factory mounts that come with the DRC, and attached it with CA glue. 

quick note about CA Glue: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN MY WHOLE LIFE?????? 

I've never used this stuff... it's soooooooo much easier than using hot glue... geeezzzzuuuusssss  ok, so enough about that...










i'm going to be molding all this in with some body filler, and the mounting flange wasn't helping, so i trimmed that off so i can have a nice easy transition with the slopes ...










and then framed out the rest of the remote with abs sheeting... very easy stuff to work with, again... another first for me.  










this all required careful work since I was messing with an area where some factory clips were at, and I didn't want to lose those. very tight tolerances... 










and one shot before I start with the body filler:


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> when did you come down here... I don't remember meeting you at a meet??


I was out there for several weeks right about the time he finished that truck. I had a project going at one of the colleges. We just met up at some mall parking lot and he let it rip...not sure my ears ever fully recovered. lol


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## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

The work looks great man. I think the rear quarters is awesome so far! It's always nice when you cut into something to find its as good as or better than you'd hoped for (especially on a BRAND NEW CAR)!

Quick note on that airbag light...the passenger airbag is designed to shut off automatically between something like 30-110lbs of weight. This is because it's been determined that a person of this size can sustain greater injuries from the airbag deployment itself (including death) than most crashes. So it can be useful to know if the system is working properly, via that light, if you have a petite wife/girlfriend or your small child riding shotgun with you. 

DS the airbag is better than a steering column to the chest at ANY size or weight so it's always on...so no need for a light. 

Not picking, just 'splainin. Keep up the great work!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Great progress Matty. Looking forward to more updates.

Sub'd !


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## Heterosapian (Dec 31, 2011)

Great job so far. I'm really impressed by the job a few cld tiles and some thinsulate did to your roof. I've been hesitant to run even thin mlv in the headliner due to the weight of it all but I think you've sold me on your alternative. I'm incorporating ported subwoofer enclosures into my mini cooper's rear side panels/body cavities as well. It might be worth a look as you move forward with the midbass enclosures:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/145434-2007-r56-mini-cooper-build.html

Good luck and stay motivated my friend!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright, afternoon break right now, while i'm letting things cure. 

started out the morning by masking the passenger side quarter panel and insert, so I can fiberglass the rest of the back of the mold. 

before doing that, I took some 3M Spray 77 and lined the edges and back of the insert with 1/8" ccf. this is to create a soft resting place for the insert and to keep vibrations and noises in the even that it comes in contact with metal. 










then taped up the passenger side..










i taped up the driver side quarter panel plastic, since the other insert is still curing. apparently I didn't add enough MEKP. 

I'll be glassing around the edges here as a start to the grill panel that I'll be putting in place to hide the midbasses and ports. 










I did the same for the passenger side, but will wait to glass it until I can install it in the car, to make sure that the form is right.










after a number of layers of chop










and after a few layers of cloth










i also took to the central command unit, scored the plastic parts that the filler will be adhering to










Then laid down some filler, and will be forming the rest of that when it fully cures.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

after sanding one side, here is is coming along:










and then after spraying primer:










and then after I tried sanding said primer   










apparently I got a little primer happy, and sprayed way too much. So much that it never fully dried. When I started sanding, it started coming off like little pieces of clay... eff me.  

so, i pulled it all off, sanded, and primed again... only this time... it's probably going to take me twice as long to finish. 

to make matters worse, the fiberglass job on the passenger side isn't curing. at all. 

the panel on the drivers side... the glass is dry but it lifted from the tape and cured wrong. 

I thought today was going to be a day where I make some good progress, instead it's basically wasted. Back to the drawing board tomorrow.....


anyone have any tricks on how to cure uncuring fiberglass? could i just put a hot layer or resin and mat on top?


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

You can try to mix a hot batch of resin and apply it over your uncured areas. I also found that a heat gun helps when in dire need.

The best option is to start over.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

ug I wanted to run amps similar to yours. let me know how that class A sounds on the horns.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Horsemanwill said:


> ug I wanted to run amps similar to yours. let me know how that class A sounds on the horns.


i can tell you already ... it sounds awesome  but then again, I have buyers bias ... spent some coin to get that amp. 

but in all seriousness, i'm excited to try it as well. but i have not only that but a super nice set of compression drivers... so I won't be able to clearly tell if it sounds nice due to the drivers, or the amp... either way though, I don't expect it to disappoint.


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

Looks awesome so far! Thing is gonna rock. 
About the interior stuff I have, a friend bought a wrecked 2010ss for all the drivetrain. Somehow I ended up with a lot of interior parts. Was gonna try to sell them but now I really just want it gone. If u lived close and were interested, I'd give it all to you. I have everything from a headliner to a driver side door. I will get a couple pics of stuff and pm them to you if u want. Don't want to clog your thread any more.


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## bignev (Feb 12, 2008)

You can try to mix a hot batch of resin and apply it over your uncured areas. I also found that a heat gun helps when in dire need.

The best option is to start over. 

x2


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Mix a hot batch and lay it on thin. If needed, use a heat gun. The only thing I'd be worried about is the bottom uncured layer not setting up. When a layer like that doesnt setup and stays wet, its going to stink like hell. The smell doesnt go away if it doesnt cure.
Just hit it with a good thin hot layer and use a heat gun on it too and hopefully the base will cure up with the fresh layer. Good luck !


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, let's get it started then.... 

i'm pulling it all out.  i lost one days worth of work... that is such a buzz kill. 

i'm going to go for a drive, get all my aggression out, and then come back and start over. 

i'm starting to wonder if there is a problem with the resin/mekp... i've never had issues before with the ratios that i'm using... if anything, they should be a little hot. the batches always started to gel at the end, which is typically a sign that things are going according to plan. take some time to glass it all, only to find out it's not catalyzing. 

i wasn't able to get all the newly laid glass out of the insert, and there are strands hanging out... so i purposely mixed a hot batch, and when i return I expect to see this 100 % hard so I can trim it.... if it's not, I'm going to flip ....


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

UV light is what you need to cure that resin out...it works better than a heat gun IMO.+


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Jumping in to subscribe - loved reading the different directions you took with the BMW, so this one will be incredibly interesting as well. I rented a Camaro once, even posted pics on my build thread - declaring that it would be impossible to do a huge build in one of these.....you are going to prove that wrong for sure. Love the amps too!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Pick up a new tube or two of MEKP hardener. That stuff can (and has) gone bad before (has happened to me unfortunately). And if you can get your pieces in direct sunlight for the curing process, be sure to do it. This always makes my projects cure MUCH faster. Also, and especially with product that has been sitting for any period of tiime- Be sure to thoroughly mix the resin in the can before pouring out, and squeeze around/mix up the hardener in the tube before squeezing out. Sometimes the liquids inside seperate and need to be well mixed up again before combining the two part mixture.

Best of luck


-Steve


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, good news... I'm just an idiot apparently and didn't mix enough mekp... in all fairness, i'm using more mekp/oz of resin than I normally do... I wonder if the materials are any different than the last time I fiberglassed last year... all new materials from US Composites, so.... yeah. 

so, while I was starting down today, I'm ending with an up. sort of. my goal today was to have the front baffle spacer attached today, and fiberglass reinforced, ready for the top baffle, volume measurement and inclusion of port tubes. 

but alas, a lot of today was eerily similar to yesterday.... just with better results. 

after pulling all the fiberglass from yesterdays snafuu...i went to town taping up both sides again. there are only a few things I hate in this hobby... masking areas... and hanging horns. my pet peeves if you will, and I'll do anything to not have to do them. 

however, this is DIY and I have to suffer through it...

so, after both sides were masked, I started with a fresh layer of mat and resin... the batch started catalyzing before I was finished, so that was a good thing.... it was gelling up good too... 










My drivers side insert finally cured... god damnit... so I trimmed that up and masked up the drivers side wall... and then went to town on it with a fresh batch of fiberglass. 



















after rolling the car out into the sun, I turned my attention to the other part of yesterday that pissed me off... the center cluster...

i had some left over resin, so i used that to fill in any dips, valleys, etc... I know it's not the best, but I didn't feel like mixing up a batch of rage when I already had this. besides, it kinda self levels. It also made some of the softer plastic that got lifted rock hard, so I could sand them down. I couldn't have done that with body filler. only two things bad about resin this way... you have the sand the hell out of it. 2, since it's clear, it still appears in some places to not be smooth... optical illusion that messes with you for sure..

so, sand, sand, sand, sand, fill, sand, sand.... you get the idea. 

here we are sanded, cleaned and ready for the texture coat...









after the texture coat and some sanding, and then SEM paint...










a few more coats of paint, let it dry, etc... 

and voila...




























it's not my best work and it was a bit rushed, but it looks great, and I can say I have one more thing I can check off of my to do list...  I'm actually pretty happy how it turned out. I just don't get why SEM paint never ever looks like it matches in pictures... 

oh well.. 

once this was done I returned to find the quarter panels .... wait for it.... 

cured!!!!!!!!

time to do layer 2... 

after this, I should be ready to pull them out and form them outside of the car. I'm using heavy chop, so it build up fast, but I should have a minimum of 3 layers everywhere, some 4 layers... can't wait to pull them out... :0



















i wonder what type of volume I'm going to be getting out of these. I'm being optimistic, but I'm still not sure I'll have enough to net 1.5 cubes after driver and port displacement... we'll have to see though. I'm definitely stoked about having these drivers in there though.... it's going to be effing sick 






.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

bertholomey said:


> Jumping in to subscribe - loved reading the different directions you took with the BMW, so this one will be incredibly interesting as well. I rented a Camaro once, even posted pics on my build thread - declaring that it would be impossible to do a huge build in one of these.....you are going to prove that wrong for sure. Love the amps too!


haha, you're so wrong  however, the trunk is what's tricky. there is a lot of room in there but the opening is a joke. I'm still wondering how I'm going to do my IB wall, but I think I've figured it out. It's just a matter if all the pieces will fit in ...


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> i wonder what type of volume I'm going to be getting out of these. I'm being optimistic, but I'm still not sure I'll have enough to net 1.5 cubes after driver and port displacement... we'll have to see though. I'm definitely stoked about having these drivers in there though.... it's going to be effing sick


Are you installing the baffle directly over the existing opening or are you bringing them out further toward the plastic panel? Just going by purely looks, it doesn't look like you'll be close to enough volume unless it's extended out past that opening. Fingers crossed for you though


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, got some bad news, some bad news, and some good news... 

what do you want first??? 

so, today I pulled out the molds after letting them fully cure. it was a pain to get them out (when is it not ?!) but I was able to wiggle them out after some persistence. Gave them a nice trim, and this is what we have : 




























a shot of the woofer for comparo's sake:



















so, the bad news... 




























there is no way I'm going to get 1.5 cubes net... I bet I have about a cube but that's it. I'll measure it when all is said and done to be sure, but I spent a lot of time trying to maximize airspace, but still fit behind the panels...

so, the second bad news...



















so, this one isn't soo bad... but I got a little trim happy in the begginning... and I'm going to have to cut more so the speaker doesn't play into the panel. Oh, well... I'll find a way to make a cool grill out of this... 

the good news...? 

airspace for both enclosures appear to be the same... or very close to it. so, if I do have to run these sealed, I won't be dealing with differences in response due to differing airspace...

which brings me to my final thought.... how good are these going to be sealed?? from around 300hz on down to 60-70 hz... I hope i'm not disappointed after all this work...


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm far from an expert, but my first thought when I saw this is why ported ? It seems to me for mid-bass you will get a better, flatter, more controlled dare I say more SQ response in sealed boxes and the bonus is you don't need the airspace. Subs, yeah, go ahead and run ported but mid-bass I don't see it as necessary. I realize my requirements are different from others but I can't imagine not having enough mid-bass output from 2 twelves that are covering only 2 octaves 3 feet away from your ears.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Because they like ported better 

Get the specs, load them into winISD...model both sealed and ported (see how 1 cube ported looks), then add a crossover to the simulation to see what kind (if any) difference you will have in output down around the XO point. the sealed is going to start rolling at about 100 where as the larger ported would be flatter down to the XO point.

Factor in some cabin gain...

Maybe Kelvin can model this up for you...I would but wouldn't be able to until mid next week.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

right you are jason... thanks... for some reason i put my blinders on, and thought all was lost since i couldn't hit my target of 1.5 cubes... 

even at 1 cube or even .75 cubes, the response is still better ported than sealed...

these plots have a 4th order 63hz high pass and 4th order 350hz low pass. 

yellow is sealed

gray is .75 cube ported

red is 1 cube ported


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The GN was sealed, but they were crossed at 90-500...so I doubt it made a difference there.

Just make sure you can get the port right with the small enclosures. 

You check group delay on the small enclosures? Just make sure everything is better.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Doesn't look too bad at 1 cube. How much different is an extra half a cube? where does it take the F3 point? 
I know it's more work, but if youre going to do some fab work on the panels for grilles and fill in, why not just make the enclosures either a little wider, or a little deeper (bring them out further). It may only take an additional 2-3 inches depth to get the other half cube.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

if using flexible tube, you may be able to make part of the port external to retain volume


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

D-Bass said:


> if using flexible tube, you may be able to make part of the port external to retain volume


port length isn't much of an issue, at 3" diameter it only call for a couple of inches...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> The GN was sealed, but they were crossed at 90-500...so I doubt it made a difference there.
> 
> Just make sure you can get the port right with the small enclosures.
> 
> You check group delay on the small enclosures? Just make sure everything is better.


i'm not sure how to read group delay, but it's the same shape as the sealed, just a few lines higher is all...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> Doesn't look too bad at 1 cube. How much different is an extra half a cube? where does it take the F3 point?
> I know it's more work, but if youre going to do some fab work on the panels for grilles and fill in, why not just make the enclosures either a little wider, or a little deeper (bring them out further). It may only take an additional 2-3 inches depth to get the other half cube.


i think I may have an idea for this, but before I worry about it any further, i'm going to glass in the top baffle, cut out the sub diameter, fill the inside, and then measure to see what I actually have. you're right though, it shouldn't be too much harder to bring it out a few inches, but i'd really rather not needing to do that.


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

Well I'll admit I had no idea - a 4-5 dB difference at 100hz and more going lower is a big surprise to me with a 12" driver. Guess I'm used to more sub oriented drivers in that size range. What is this thing called "math" that you are using ?


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Any chance of going aperiodic with the midbass?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That's even less output.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> That's even less output.


Considering the enclosure volume limitations a properly tuned ap setup could be the best option. I wouldn't use max output from a box modeling program the priority of this space limited install.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

AP would be less output than the sealed...and less than the small ported.

Then you would need to find a way to vent the AP mat.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright... minor progress today since i'm back to work from my staycation this weekend...

got the grillcloth stretched, used CA glue to hold it down, trimmed it up, and then slathered on some resin. 

this also marks to end of my first gallon of resin... 

tomorrow i hope to have this all cured, so i can bring out my router and cut the speaker whole, measure with foam peanuts and figure out how much airspace I have...

actually, does anyone else have a more exact method of measuring space, without it being super expensive?


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

get some Styrofoam peanuts get a cardboard box 12x12x12 pour and repeat


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Go buy a 5 dollar bean bag and use those tiny styrofoam BB's....that'll be more accurate if that's what you're after.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> Go buy a 5 dollar bean bag and use those tiny styrofoam BB's....that'll be more accurate if that's what you're after.


your talking about a bean bag chair...? where do I get one of those for 5 bucks


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Around Houston they're 5-10 bucks at every fleamarket furniture store you pass on the highway. lol


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

sub for some nice build action..


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## The Tube Doctor (Nov 24, 2009)

I make use of the garden hose and some graduated measuring containers. This also lets me check for any leaks that might escape an eyeball inspection. I've been using marine ply for all my wood components, so I'm never worried about the moisture causing problems.
Those 2 litre plastic pop bottles are pretty handy!
FWIW, 28.3 litres per cubic foot.


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

That's the car I want!

Subscribed!


.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I use cat litter for measuring odd sized enclosures.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ that's a good cheap idea and it should give me good results... i just don't like the idea of packing peanuts because they are so large, it may not give accurate results with odd shapes or internal bracing.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I've always used either sand or water. But cat litter or bean bag BBs would work really well too.


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## 04murdalanche (Nov 22, 2011)

tuned! girl is the first pic is teh sex


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

not a happy camper...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright, well... 

the molds cured, so when i got home today, i quickly got out my measuring tape, marker, and drill bit and eagerly started drawing out the cut out and where i think the port tube should go. 



pulled out the router and jasper jig and cut away



i decided to use dog food... it's cheap, and it fills up voids pretty easily...



and the moment of truth.... it's a 11x11x14 box... just about a cube... 



it came out to be 8x11x14... anyone here good with math would tell you i'm not even close to my target. so some decisions have to be made... 

i'm just not sure what to do at this point, nor am i sure where I can make up .3 cubes before port displacement. the whole point behind getting these behind the factory panels was to allow the seat back to fold down without running into anything. if i build this out further inside the car, then i lose the ability to fold down the seat. i'm not sure building it out in the first place will give me that .3 cubes anyway. 

i could space the baffle out about an inch... maybe 2 ... but that's stretching it. but that would get me to the .75 cube target... i just get the sense that such a small volume will run me into problems along the way... not sure what, but i'm nervous to build it too small. 

anyway... looking for suggestions here.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

oh, and fyi, i was planning on using a 65 hz tune to give me flexibility, but since I'm using AE SBP 15's, I suspect that crossing at 80 hz might be the norm... we'll see.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

you'll have to enlarge this image to see it right...



so, if you take a look, i went through various box sizes, all with an 80 hz tune, and at a 4th order crossover at 80hz... 

the best i'll get with .7 cubes is a f3 of 90hz... at 1 cube i'll be at almost 80hz, but at 1.5 cubes i'll be at 77hz

what thing should i be worried about if i went with a small enclosure like the one at .7 cubes... are there things that winisd isn't telling me that I should be aware of? 

also, port velocity on these seem to be really high, which is odd considering i'm using 3" port... you would think if given 200 watts, and the excursion is less than 3mm, you really wouldn't get much chuffing... just logically thinking of course. but am I missing something here?


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Liking the build so far. This might be a dumb question/suggestion but can you use polyfill in yours/any ported enclosure. Can you put a grill on the port to keep from getting pushed out?


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Nice build Matty, I think all the work you are putting into those mid bass drivers will be well worth it. 

It's funny how sound deadening always ends up being way more work than it should be. I can tell we both talked to Don as I will be treating my car EXACTLY the same as you did here. I have never used 3M thinsulate acoustic before but it at least looks a hell of a lot easier to work with on a roof than MLV and CCF.

As far as the midbass enclosure issue, I have an idea that will net you more volume... but I don't know if it will work (I can't tell how much space you have behind that panel in the pics). It looks like you have a lot more room behind that panel where you didn't cut (back toward the wheel well along the quarter panel). 

If there is some more space in that area you could build some more airspace under that panel and do some surgery on the existing enclosures to add this volume. I don't know if I am explaining this well...

The easiest way to do this may be to use some plexiglass and a heat gun to get an enclosure in that undercut area then reinforce the plexi with fiberglass and mold it into the existing enclosure.


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## mark620 (Dec 8, 2010)

Is there any way at the top of the enclosure towards the trunk, you can fit a say 3 inch by 7inch or longer pvc pipe going towards trunk for mor volume? it would be capped and glued into box and once its in you could do a little expanding foam around it to hold it in place. May give you what your looking for..Great work so far..


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

trevordj said:


> Nice build Matty, I think all the work you are putting into those mid bass drivers will be well worth it.
> 
> It's funny how sound deadening always ends up being way more work than it should be. I can tell we both talked to Don as I will be treating my car EXACTLY the same as you did here. I have never used 3M thinsulate acoustic before but it at least looks a hell of a lot easier to work with on a roof than MLV and CCF.
> 
> ...


trevor, good suggestion, and I have thought about that, but immediately dismissed it due to not being able to remove the enclosure from the vehicle...

i wonder if it would be worthwhile making it modular... i have open space on both sides (toward the front of the car, and to the rear of the car)... If I did that then i may be able to get the airspace necessary... 

just wondering how I'll do that.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> trevor, good suggestion, and I have thought about that, but immediately dismissed it due to not being able to remove the enclosure from the vehicle...
> 
> i wonder if it would be worthwhile making it modular... i have open space on both sides (toward the front of the car, and to the rear of the car)... If I did that then i may be able to get the airspace necessary...
> 
> just wondering how I'll do that.


Ah, good point, I hadn't thought of that. I wonder if you made the undercut only on one side and didn't push your material super tight against the sheet metal if you could still remove the enclosure? Making it modular would be a challenge as you would have to find a way to seal the inner junction (although you will have the open baffle to work through. 

Another option is you could use some foam to mock up some space in that undercut. You could keep shaving down the foam's dimensions unti lyou have something that you can attach to the enclosure that you can still tilt to remove. Once you have your shape you could use the foam as a plug, make a mold, and then make a fiberglass part that you know can be attached to the enclosure and still allow it to be removed. 

I am grabbing at straws here, but I am just trying to think how I would solve this (sorry if I'm not making sense). It's definitely a challenging situation. 

The other, more simple option would be to just use what you have, stuff the enclosure 100% with fiberglass insulation on all sides, mount the driver and port and just see what your real world measurements are. It might not be exactly what is modeled especially with the stuffing.


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## Heterosapian (Dec 31, 2011)

I've had tremendous success with some mdf, lots of duct seal and cld. Granted, I will never be able to remove the enclosure from my car - it's now a part of the body work essentially - but it absolutely maximized the space I had to work with. Maybe try turning those body cavities into the enclosures themselves.

edit: your enclosures are really close to your .75 target, even factoring in driver displacement. I'd second the poly fill idea. You've got so much time and energy invested in those enclosures that it might be worth an afternoon to bench test them sealed, ported, then ported and filled ~0.5 lb/sqft. I can't see you being unhappy with the results. Though 1.5 cubes would be ideal, you work with what you've got. I'm rooting for you!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thinking about it conceptually, i think i can get a side flange built... and can bolt it up right up to the side. (how much work that entails is a whole other question)...

i think i'm going to build out the top of the eclosures as well, just a tad, as I think it will help tie in the factory plastics as well when it comes time to make a grill. 

i know these are the two pieces that are going to consume the most time during this whole project, but damn... what a pain in the ass.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Heterosapian said:


> edit: your enclosures are really close to your .75 target, even factoring in driver displacement.


the target was 1.5 cubes... i think .75 is really a stretch... and less than ideal. if i can build it out to meet close to the 1.5 that would SUPER.


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## Heterosapian (Dec 31, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> the target was 1.5 cubes... i think .75 is really a stretch... and less than ideal. if i can build it out to meet close to the 1.5 that would SUPER.


I agree. I modeled them myself just now and 1.5 is a lot fatter on the low end. Anything under 1 cube looks really similar, all the way down to .65 ft^3, and even at that small displacement, you're working with 3db more than sealed throughout the 60-120ish octave. I'm interested to see what you come up with


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, slight departure from the midbass mess... need to clear my mind on that so I'm starting on the doors this weekend. 

got home tonight, and took off the door panels before it got dark. the inserts in the panels are gray and drab, and I'm just not feeling it. so, while the door panels are off, I removed the inserts and covered them as well as the linear trim that goes along the dash in 3m DiNoc Carbon trim. 

Here are the doors from the factory...



with the panels removed:



and after covering them...



the goal for tomorrow is to deaden the outer door panels, inner panels, door card, line the door with ccf, mlv, and the door card with thinsulate, and build out baffles for the audax midranges... 

if all goes well, by the end of the day we'll have it all buttoned up and we'll see what the panels look like all integrated. 

stay tuned


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Those look great. I love that stuff. I covered my center console sub in it and it turned out pretty nice.


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## rjtapp (Mar 22, 2012)

The camaros I looked at had ambient lighting in that panel. Does the lighting still work after you covered them?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

probably not, unless there is a level of opaquenss in the carbon trim. i didn't care for the lighting myself... thought it was pretty lame, and even distracting at times, so...


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I had a regular customer come in for some deadener, and I used a little spray glue to attach the jute padding that was on the door from the factory. The glue caused the coating on the back of that panel to wrinkle badly. Had to buy him a new door panel for it. I kept the old one, but to anyone NOT planning on wrapping theirs, be careful around the back side of that panel.

Jay


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

soooo close to hitting my goal for the day... if I could actually mix resin right then I would have been set... I'll explain in a bit.. 

so, the goal today was to deaden the doors, add, mlv and ccf, and then thinsulate the door cards. make the baffles for the door speakers, wire everything up, install the audax speakers, and then button it all up. 

so close...... awww

so, early this morning, I took the inserts that I removed, and then reattached them to the doors with a combination of ca glue, and hot glue (the panels were originally secured with melted plastic posts. 

once i was done with that I set to deadening everything...

from the materials I got from Don, I allocated 1 CLD tile and Thinsulate for the door card, 2 CLD tiles for the inner door skin, and 6 CLD tiles for the outer door skin. And then of course whatever was needed for mlv and ccf...

here is the door with the panel off:



and with the vapor barrier removed:



this is how much deadening comes from the factory:



it's thickness is far less than 1mil total... with the aluminum sheeting barely more than tinfoil, and the rubber solution being as minimal as possible. I have significant doubts on it doing anything at all...

Here is the door panel with 1 CLD tile cut up into pieces:



and then with thinsulate:





for the doors themselves, I started first with Butyl Rope in the open space between the internal reinforcements and the door panel. 



and then with the inner and outer door skins deadened



this made a dramatic improvement in the subjective "door panel "tap" test" 

and finally, after much fussing with the mlv, ccf, and velcro, I have my noise barrier in place:


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

turning my attention to the baffles, i trimmed the door cards a bit where there will be some contact with the audax drivers... although a 6.5" driver, the outer diameter is 7.5 inches, so it makes for some tight clearances with the door card. 

I made 6 rings, with 3/4" birch ply. I'm going to decouple the rings from the door panel with butyl rope. Since that will also be the main adhesive, I drilled two bolt holes in the door panels and in the first ring for each baffle, I counter sunk a bolt in each side to match. This was secured with ca glue and wood glue combination.





then i proceeded to laminate the remaining two rings together with wood glue and a series of clamps





after that dried sufficiently, I mixed my batch of resin and slathered away... this is to protect the rings from moisture, so I don't have to worry about wood rot or warping in the event that water comes into contact with the rings



had the rings cured in time... I would have had the speakers in and wired, door card back on, and ready to move on... 

oh well, tomorrow I'll just have to do double the work.








.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

would moving to 2123's lessen your need for airspace?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

finally... got the speakers in and wired up, doors in and buttoned up. what a pita. seriously. if the speaker rings would have been any bigger they wouldn't have fit. 

so...

started by throwing some butyl rope on the rings... i didn't use a lot ... i see people use a lot, and i think it's a waste honestly... all you need is a small layer to keep the rings from the solid door, and the rope is damn sticky... 



i attached each baffle this way, and then sealed around the outside edges again, with more butyl rope..



then with both speakers installed:





and then with the door back on: (this was a huge pain... i don't ever want to take these doors off again  )






and finally, since it's all back together, I can show you the integrated trim now. from left to right:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I would just seal them and EQ if needed.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> I would just seal them and EQ if needed.


any supporting reasoning behind this. why sealed over ported? do you think i'm going to run into resonance issues at this point?


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

That trim looks 100x better! Glad to see you're back! Can't wait to see what else you do with this car! It's gorgeous!


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Ya, that trim looks a whole lot better than it did stock. Keep it up.


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## alachua (Jun 30, 2008)

Why the need to run the rear mounted midbass speakers with so low of a cross over? I can understand when it comes to front mounted speakers, as actual up front bass is certainly a benefit over tuning to achieve the illusion of it, but you are already mounting the speakers behind you next to a pair of much larger drivers that are no slouches with that frequency range. I believe BuckGN found that he (at least at one point) preferred to run his previous generation AE IB15s up to 100hz when using the MS8 in his TL, though I may be mixing up this recollection. If you already have the enclosures mostly finished could you work on getting the subs installed and determine the best course of action after listening to it?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

If you can get the airspace, then port them...if the ported is about the same as sealed, then I might would go sealed just because because it would be simple.

I can't see the pictures here at work, and don't have much internet access at home.

So maybe take what I am saying with a grain of salt .

It's been a long week, and I read everything even the PM...but having a hard time remembering everything.

Bumping the XO up from 60 to 80 or 90 might not be a bad idea either. I don't know if there would be any benefit from ported over sealed at those XO points though.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Maybe you already said but where are you crossing the 6.5s and the horns?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright... i'm soo happy today...

with the amount of progress I made today... I surely didn't think all this was going to be possible...

so, with the front midranges installed and ready to go, I turned my attention to the mounting of the horns... and i hate installing horns. 

i mentioned earlier that there are two things I absolutely detest in this hobby, and that's deadening cars, and hanging horns. 

so, with the dread of today in front of me, i went to work patiently, and thoughtfully, looking for the best solution. 

first off, a thing about the horns. there are a lot of horn bodies out there, and out of the ones that I've used, I prefer to use the minihorns from Eric Stevens, as they are what I consider the most "install friendly" horns I've seen. they are small, the angle of the neck allows them to get fairly wide without any modifications, you can push them back pretty far out of the way. 

so, first thing is making sure i have horns that are easy to install. second is weight. heavy horns are a bear to hang... which is one of the reasons why i went with the bms 4552nd Neo compression drivers... they are small in size, and they don't weigh very much. third thing is magnet pains. if you've hung horns, then you know every time the compression driver comes into contact with sheet metal, you're in for a wicked fight to get them loose. 

so, this is why I came up with these. i'm sick and tired of scratching the horns, and them pulling towards every metal piece in the car. simple diy fix for this is to use some scrap ccf, and a zip tie... and voila... you have a protective sock for the driver. 



after looking around for quite some time at possible mounting locations and hanging solutions I settled on one that would be the easiest, and the most effective. 

most people will use backstrap, and hang it from a post within the dash... and then attach it to the front of the dash with more strap... it all leads to a pretty flimsy solution. 

now, in my location hunting, I found out that i could get the side horn mouth within 3/8" of the body metal. the little indent in the kick panels allowed me the extra room. so i trimmed to bodies way down... but i made sure i did so with a strong 90 degree angle. 
(again, trimming the bodies, getting rid of the unnecessary fat, allows me to have have extra feet room as well... which is important when i'm driving.)

so, I decided to fab up some brackets that will allow me to attach the horn at the mouth.. and because of the way that the horn is designed, almost all of the weight is placed on this bracket as well... eliminating my need to use any other install points. 

here I'm drilling three holes per horn:



and i'm countersinking the inside so i don't have bolt heads sticking out:



i used two pieces of aluminum in this install. one that attaches to the horns and the bracket, and the bracket that attaches to the body of the car. i drilled three holes to coincide with the horn mount as well as the body mount.



then I attached the horn bracket. now, with horns, you want the inside to be as smooth as possible. countersinking my bolts caused a bit of a problem with that, but not one that i hadn't anticipated. with my new found love of CA glue, i angled the horn in a way that the countersunk holes were horizontal .. and then filled each to the top with ca glue and used the accelerator to cure it. now, it's like i didn't even cut into the horn  



it was important that nothing stuck out of the bracket, so it wouldn't influence the way that this bracket would mate with the one in the car. i trimmed off the excess threads on the bolts that were securing the horn bracket. 



after using some self tapping screws and some patience in lining everything up, here is what we have:



nice, level, and sturdy. 

i repeated the same thing on the passenger side:



on the passenger side, the glove box makes up part of the underside of the dash. consequently, it also has a hinge that was getting in my way, and so I decided to remove it. in this picture you'll see it trimmed down on the left side:



and some final pictures for you... (mind you I still need to address the wiring in the kick areas and reinstall the factory kick panels ... that will be for another day. )

view from the passenger seat:



and a little bit lower:



view from the drivers seat (say hello to my legs  )



and a little bit lower:








i love horns. i hate the process of installing them. this was, by far, the easiest solution that I have found, but still abiding by conventional horn aiming techniques. 

i love how they are hidden from complete view, and how they can present a huge stage with depth to spare, good height and width, and most of all, dynamics. 

i fully intend on telling people my system is factory  because unless you knew better, you really wouldn't be anyone the wiser. 

i still have a few things to address, like creating a few underdash panels, the kickpanels, etc... but all in all, i got a TON done today and I'm super stoked about it. 

edit: oh, I guess I should add, that even my size 12 feet don't have a problem with the clutch pedal... another reason why i like the mini's ... they stay out of my way


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

here's another "random" too... you guys are overdue on this one


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

is it the angle of the camera that makes them look like they are a bit angled outwards?

I had the same prob with my glove box. I modified it but it don't like to stay closed now lol


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

she's suppose to swallow fyi


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Nice job!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Horsemanwill said:


> is it the angle of the camera that makes them look like they are a bit angled outwards?
> 
> I had the same prob with my glove box. I modified it but it don't like to stay closed now lol


it's actually the dash... 

one of the reasons why i chose mounting directly to the body was because i knew it was going to be a straight edge... they are straight and will fire right. just the pics and the dash that make it look a little lopsided.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alachua said:


> Why the need to run the rear mounted midbass speakers with so low of a cross over?


i'm just looking for flexibility... i'm not sure what crossover points are going to work best for me, but the flexible i can be with them, the better.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Golden Ear said:


> Maybe you already said but where are you crossing the 6.5s and the horns?


good question...  

1000 hz or maybe a tad lower on the horns...

I think Winslow said the audax's will go down to 175hz comfortably on a steep slope... 

As I mentioned in the post above, I am looking to have the most flexibility. I don't want to have bass coming from "behind" me, and I'm not sure how it's all going to turn out until I start tuning and playing with crossover points... 

however, as to your question, the crossover points I stated are probably the lowest I would go with each driver in question


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

They did for me...but knowing what I know now, I would bump them up to 250 or so. But you can play around with them to see.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Is that a wideband 6.5"? Why doesn't it go down very low? Am I just used to 6.5s that go down to the 80s?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Golden Ear said:


> Is that a wideband 6.5"? Why doesn't it go down very low? Am I just used to 6.5s that go down to the 80s?


yes. these are pro audio drivers. hoffmans iron law... something about trading off efficiency for low end extension, or something like that. these are 99 db efficient. won't take much to get screaming loud, but the trade off is in how low they go. 

with horn set ups, you need to find drivers that are close efficiency to horns... which are upwards of 115db efficient at 1 watt. traditional diy or car audio drivers just don't cut it with 87 to 90 db efficiency or even less...


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

always glad to see another HLCD install.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> yes. these are pro audio drivers. hoffmans iron law... something about trading off efficiency for low end extension, or something like that. these are 99 db efficient. won't take much to get screaming loud, but the trade off is in how low they go.
> 
> with horn set ups, you need to find drivers that are close efficiency to horns... which are upwards of 115db efficient at 1 watt. traditional diy or car audio drivers just don't cut it with 87 to 90 db efficiency or even less...


Great info...thanks! Keep up the good work:whip:


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## 04murdalanche (Nov 22, 2011)

love the carbon fiber! keep up the good work


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

Looks good keep up the work!


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Man, this thread is really getting me anxious to start working on my Monte. I've been watching this since you started it but when I saw the pics of the waveguides going in, that was it! I ordered a new set of mini bodies from Eric today. They should hopefully give me more foot room than my old full bodies will. Great job so far. Keep up the good work.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

looks like Christmas came early boys...    



nice packaging technique... 



all the flak on forums about the wait time for AE subs... came in under the quoted timeframe for me.  





these things are beasts... I'm SOOOO stoked. 

here's a sign of things to come -


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Sweet!


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## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Nice!
Yeah, no kidding about the reduced wait times, John beat his estimate for mine too. Gotta love the packing job... easy to take in and out for fitment too. Hopefully I'll have mine hooked up in the next few days.

Looking forward to how you mount those bad-boys.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

There you were  Next time, send me a PM when you do a build log 

Here's a small sketch of what you could do (maybe): 









If you do have a 0.75cuft enclosure, a 65Hz tune only needs a 7.81" long port if the tube is a 4" one... 

From your pics, looks like you might have the space, to keep it below the C-pillar window - port would kinda be exiting where the front seatbelts are OR up @ the C-pillar window (with some kind of cloth to protect from debrits)

Kelvin


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## mrmill (Feb 11, 2013)

nice work on the trim and horn install...i like's a lot.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Good job with those horns! You make it look easy!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I want some 4552s...bastard.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

mrmill said:


> nice work on the trim and horn install...i like's a lot.


thanks! i think it really transformed the interior 



edouble101 said:


> Good job with those horns! You make it look easy!


trust me, nothing about what i did was easy. it took a lot of time and patience to get things fitted properly. but as always, slow and steady leads the way 



thehatedguy said:


> I want some 4552s...bastard.


woah... easy on the name calling, bro :surprised: j/k


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> There you were  Next time, send me a PM when you do a build log
> 
> Here's a small sketch of what you could do (maybe):
> 
> ...


Hopefully this will be the last install for a while 

I'm aiming for a 3" port, so i'm not terribly worried about placement and airspace with that... a 3" port at 80hz is only a few inches... and a few more if i want to drop the tuning lower.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> edouble101 said:
> 
> 
> > Good job with those horns! You make it look easy!
> ...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok, finally did some conceptual studying today... returning my attention back to the midbass panels... i'm looking for some suggestions here. 

on the inside of the fender wells, there is quite a bit of airspace as you go back towards the trunk... here are a few pics:





the question is, how do i take advantage of all that extra airspace? as it goes back it seems to narrow and then open up again. i'd like to use some expanding foam or something like that to get as much airspace as possible, but that won't work. 

suggestions please .. this might be my ticket for another .2-.4 cubes or so... 




and lastly, in looking at the side panels, i needed to remove a trunk cover and found a cross member that might impede my original plan for placement of the IB wall. 

however, this actually looks like it might work a bit easier... bottom to top is just about 17 inches... however i'll loose a few inches of trunk space pushing the baffle back a bit...


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> Hopefully this will be the last install for a while
> 
> I'm aiming for a 3" port, so i'm not terribly worried about placement and airspace with that... a 3" port at 80hz is only a few inches... and a few more if i want to drop the tuning lower.


With a 3" port, I wouldn't tune higher than 50Hz - air velocity is very high when tuned to 80Hz (even with the 63Hz HP engaged). Even @ 50Hz, the port is less than 8" long
With a 4" port, I wouldn't tune higher than 63Hz 

Things to lower air velocity: 
- lower tuning 
- smaller enclosure 

Something that WinISD doesn't tell you is the output of the port - Patrick Bateman has stated many times that a bigger port will gain you some SPL - something to consider 

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> With a 3" port, I wouldn't tune higher than 50Hz - air velocity is very high when tuned to 80Hz (even with the 63Hz HP engaged). Even @ 50Hz, the port is less than 8" long
> With a 4" port, I wouldn't tune higher than 63Hz
> 
> Things to lower air velocity:
> ...


hmm, that may throw a wrench in the mix... that means if i use a larger port i'm also displacing more volume... and i'm already starting really low... 

with a 63 hz tune and 63hz crossover I'm -10db down on the transfer function magnitude in winisd.. the plot doesn't look pretty... and that's at .8 cubes.. 

this is becoming a mess ... i'm gonna pull my hair out if i can't find a fix for this.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

trevordj said:


>


dude.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> Ok, finally did some conceptual studying today... returning my attention back to the midbass panels... i'm looking for some suggestions here.
> 
> on the inside of the fender wells, there is quite a bit of airspace as you go back towards the trunk... here are a few pics:
> 
> ...


Can you reach in there and fill it with some putty, modeling clay, or that rope they use to stop resonances in doors? Something that will harden then you can spray some truck bed liner to seal it up?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Would the JBL's do well in a large sealed or IB configuration? You have enough cone area to get output. Have you considered just using the airspace behind the cutout as your "enclosure". This would rule out ported, but honestly you should have alot of output with the SD of (2) 12's and cabin gain. Not to mention a pair of very low LE subs which could play up a bit if needed, and do it very cleanly.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> hmm, that may throw a wrench in the mix... that means if i use a larger port i'm also displacing more volume... and i'm already starting really low...
> 
> with a 63 hz tune and 63hz crossover I'm -10db down on the transfer function magnitude in winisd.. the plot doesn't look pretty... and that's at .8 cubes..
> 
> this is becoming a mess ... i'm gonna pull my hair out if i can't find a fix for this.


0.75 @ 63Hz doesn't look to bad to me... You're too hung up on number (but I can understand you ) 
I also like to do it once and forget about it but in this case, I suggest you try the port first and decide if you need to do something else to add more enclosure volume. 

Kelvin


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Any way you could mount the port outside of the enclosure? Like squeeze it through some panel cavity and have it shoot out maybe at the rear deck or something? That might help you a bit with the volume.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> 0.75 @ 63Hz doesn't look to bad to me... You're too hung up on number (but I can understand you )
> I also like to do it once and forget about it but in this case, I suggest you try the port first and decide if you need to do something else to add more enclosure volume.
> 
> Kelvin


i suppose you're factoring in cabin gain here?? 

i'm nervous about making the enclosure too small... but is that even a legitimate concern. am i going to run into midbass coloration or anything if the enclosure is too small. i guess the real question is what is "Too Small"?


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

matty, the horn install is awesome. cant wait to see what you do with the kick panels


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

req said:


> matty, the horn install is awesome. cant wait to see what you do with the kick panels


um, putting them back?  nothing else is going down there...

thanks for the props though... the underdash panels are going to be interesting... both sides need them.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

thought you said you had to build them since the horns are in the way?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It isn't going to be easy to get back in there...but you could spray the whole thing down with WD40, or some tire shine stuff, get a few large plastic bags and line the area with it, and then spray in some expanding foam in the bags. Whe it cures out, you should be able to pull the piece out. Once out, shape it down some and lay the glass on that.

Or you could tape the whole area off with some duct tape first, then spray that down and do the foam.

Or you could build it in the car and not be able to take it out...that would be the easiest way (for me). I would damping the whole area, put your foam down, tape over all of that. Spray the tape down with some tire goo. Buy some cabosil and 1/2" chopped fibers. Mix the resin, cabosil, and chopped fibers until it is a thick paste- like peanut butter thick. Put your gloves on, get you some stir sticks, laddle the resin mixture out back there, and start spreading it out with your hands and/or a bondo spreader.

If you did that...make sure you don't have any positive draft when you tape the area up...you want the part to be smaller than anywhere you are working just incase you ever want to take the part out in one piece. Otherwise you will be spending a lot of time with an airsaw cutting this thing into pieces to get it out.

I've done that last method once or twice in cars. It works. Can be messy, but sometimes the only way to get back in there.

Then stuff the **** out of the enclosure with polyfill.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

how do you go about finishing it? 

i would build it in the car with a release layer so it is removeable and wrappable with vynil. most likely aluminum foil beneath it or something. i like to use aluminum tape a lot too. then hit it with some wax or spray or oil. tape off the area around it and put down thin layers of spray foam at a time. if you make it real thick it takes forever to cure and it has big bubbles that leave big hollow spots inside.

after its positive form is large enough use a hacksaw blade and utility knife and a wood file to shape it to a kick panel form that meets with the dash and the horn.

basically the same idea as hatedguy prolly.

i have never had to do that, but depending on what i do with my kick panels will depend on what i have to do in the future.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> i suppose you're factoring in cabin gain here??
> 
> i'm nervous about making the enclosure too small... but is that even a legitimate concern. am i going to run into midbass coloration or anything if the enclosure is too small. i guess the real question is what is "Too Small"?


I think I have an idea for your cavity for extra space - why not use a PVC tube that fits there with the exit blocked/closed? I know some did this for their upfront subwoofer when they needed a bit more space... 

The issue that is significant for small enclosures is that you have higher pressure than in a bigger enclosure. This means that you would have to deal with internal standing wave reflections. I would use some type of long-haired sheep’s wool in the enclosure and closer to the port where the air has maximum velocity. 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The thing with the tube is that the tube has to be large enough for the speaker to "see" the extra space. Otherwise it will act as a closed resonator.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

If you built the part in the car, you wouldn't finish out, you would just connect it to the other enclosure.

You could skip the step of the tire goo over the tape if you wanted.

Or you could take strips/blocks of your damping mat, and form the enclosure with that back in there, and then spread the crap out of it with the resin, chopped fibers, and cabosil. That would be the fastest way of getting back there. If you are worried about pin holes, paint the entire surface of that part with some thinned body filler or some liquid sound dampner like Second Skin Sludge.

I have done that too.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

req said:


> matty, the horn install is awesome. cant wait to see what you do with the kick panels





req said:


> thought you said you had to build them since the horns are in the way?





req said:


> how do you go about finishing it?
> 
> i would build it in the car with a release layer so it is removeable and wrappable with vynil. most likely aluminum foil beneath it or something. i like to use aluminum tape a lot too. then hit it with some wax or spray or oil. tape off the area around it and put down thin layers of spray foam at a time. if you make it real thick it takes forever to cure and it has big bubbles that leave big hollow spots inside.
> 
> ...


i think for the kick panels, most of the plastic panel will work... as it sits now, the horns are tucked under the dash enough that it seems like not much of a problem. whatever i trim out of the panel to get it to fit, i'll probably use pieces of abs to mold it and make it look factory, use filler if necessary, and then leave it be. it shouldn't be too difficult.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

more concept shots for anyone that cares... i was initially planning on using the sides of the trunk for my amps, but the more i think about it, the more the spare tire well seems to make the most sense. it'll be easier to get it all in, which means less finishing work, and it should make routing wires, etc. all that much easier as well. 

now, i haven't looked too indepth for this idea, so i started taking the trunk panels off to see what i was working with ( i had only partially done this previously)

here's the tub:



and the right and left sides... 





in the last photo, you can see where the power wire snakes through and along the trunk floor, i won't have to add any wires there  

in the same photo, along the trunk wall, is the factory amp. from what i understand with the connector i'll be using, i need to keep the amp plugged in, so i may have to worry about relocating/lengthening some wires, but maybe not. 

in any case, i think the left side of the trunk is ripe for the battery, i just need to figure out a way to tie it down. 

in the middle picture, you see where the negative body ground is... you guys think this is okay to use still? i'll have to lengthen out the factory ground with some 1/0 wire since it won't be long enough... just wondering your guys thoughts. 

so, after looking at this and starting to plan out the weekend, i started to look back at the midbass enclosures.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

so i think this post deserves it's own space... 

i think i've gone mad. really. like Kelvin said up above, i'm a once and done kinda guy... i only want to mess with the install once. 

with that being said, thanks for all the suggestions on how to get more airspace. I think one thing has become abundantly clear, whatever I do, it's going to be fairly complicated. 

so, after sitting on the floor in the car just looking at the open space, I started to wonder why I was worried about building a piece in the car that is removable. 6.5/10 parts of this enclosure is actually INSIDE the body of the car. What are the chances that I'd ever need to remove something I build in the car. If I returned the car to stock (which i do frequently since i change cars all the time) the entire enclosure is hidden behind stock factory panels, so even if i left it in, what's the big deal? no one would ever be one the wiser, unless they had a reason to go back there for something... 

so, am I super crazy for just thinking about fiberglassing directly to the car? i mean, think about all the unused airspace that's in there... not even talking directly about going far back... but there is a ton of airspace above my cutout before the window, below the cutout towards the floor, inside towards the door pillars... 

i could realistically get probably at least 2 cubes out of this. I could still build out to the same depth that i am now, right up against the panel, but i could use wood for a majority of that, and then seal it all up with a milkshake mix or something. i woudln't have to make every part of the enclosure super strong as well, since a lot of the parts of the car are pretty reinforced to begin with....

am i crazy? like, honestly... you guys need to tell me that i'm crazy. but from a logical argument standpoint... it would be easier to do this, still out of the way, there is no need to remove it, and it beats making something modular and trying to mate it up with the original enclosure. 

need some feedback guys... what would you do?


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## Derekj (Aug 11, 2011)

If you do glass to the car just remember to not cover up any harnesses or seat belt stuff. Would suck to have to tear it out if something went wrong with the car.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

How about using that "Hyperfiber mat" stuff to build out your rear enclosures? Or can you remove your rear quarter panels and build from the outside in?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't think you are crazy...but coming from me, that might not give you much comfort...lol.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Go for it! In the name of sq...lol


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

what you could do - in order to mitigate adhering it to the chassis - is cover the surface with some kind of tape layer. then just leave it like that. aluminum tape is my go-to stuff. cover the entire are you want to build on with the tape, and then glass to it.

just dont pull it out, and build the front side right in the car.

i have thought about it before.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Yea, definitely go for glassing it right in there. As long as there isn't anything vital that a tech would need to get at to service your car, should be good to go. It's not like deadener, etc is all that removable either. We all just leave that in when getting a new car, haha.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

yeah, i suppose it's just been the norm... you don't build things into the car without being able to remove them... it's just not what you do. but that's because it's normally outward facing, and you might want to change things after later. 

being that this is totally IN the car, i don't see a problem one bit. shouldn't be too hard either. 

since i can't measure thickness, nor would that be the ultimate measurement, what do you guys think i should do the determine if a certain panel is strong enough after glassing? i still want this to be a sealed (minus the port obviously) and flex free enclosure.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> since i can't measure thickness, nor would that be the ultimate measurement, what do you guys think i should do the determine if a certain panel is strong enough after glassing? i still want this to be a sealed (minus the port obviously) and flex free enclosure.


still looking for some feedback on this, but I'll move on hoping to get steered in the right direction on this. 






to revisit something i started earlier on... the amps. Remember I started pulling off the finish... want the 200.4 amps to match the A Class? 

So, here we are, with the paint scraped and just a few minor areas to deal with before finishing the amp



i'm looking for some info on how to get the finish the mirror the A-Class. How do i get a nice brushed look. Plus it seems like i need to polish the amps in some way as well, since the regular aluminum is all discolored and not matching. 

ideas on how to finish these?


alternatively, I have some left over DiNoc Carbon trim... I'm not much for sticking stuff on vinyl, but these amps don't seem to rely heavily on the external area of the amp, as the heatsinks inside aren't even connected to the amp shroud... 

i took a random piece, laid it down... looks kinda tight... plus it could tie in my sports car theme... whatch'all think?


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> yeah, i suppose it's just been the norm... you don't build things into the car without being able to remove them... it's just not what you do. but that's because it's normally outward facing, and you might want to change things after later.
> 
> being that this is totally IN the car, i don't see a problem one bit. shouldn't be too hard either.
> 
> since i can't measure thickness, nor would that be the ultimate measurement, what do you guys think i should do the determine if a certain panel is strong enough after glassing? i still want this to be a sealed (minus the port obviously) and flex free enclosure.


Without making a test enclosure it will be pretty tough to know how thick the final product will be. A technique I have seen in one of my books is to precut your layup plan very carefully and stack enough layers of fiberglass to meet about 80-90% of your proposed final thickness. If you want to easily increase the thickness/strength of your layup you could always layup a couple layers of fiberglass followed by foam core and then a few more layers of glass. You can simply use a caliper to measure all your layers of glass/core to achieve 90% of your final thickness. The resin will take up the other 10%. 

The small volume and layering of the glass over metal will dramatically increase the strength of the enclosure. I don't think you'll need to go too thick to get a flex-free box, I would guess somewhere in the 1/4" to 3/8" department, but that's just a shot in the dark.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I just got some of this stuff:

Coremat® 4mm - Yard - $10.06

I haven't played with it before but it is pretty pliable and would be relatively easy to layup in a tight spot sandwiched in fiberglass.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

The carbon fiber looks good on the amp!


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## Reyne (May 18, 2010)

You could get the amps done the cars body colour. Or matt-gloss black. Trying to get that shiny brushed aluminium finish is a **** load of work and a little bit experimental. If you are going to try you need to clamp a straight edge to the amp cover and use a block with something like 180 grit paper. Running the block along the straight edge.You have to reposition the staight edge each time you finish a section the width of the block. The lines have to be straight otherwise it looks crap. Then if you are happy with the finish use a matt or gloss light coat of clear.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ you are right, that does sound like an awful amount of work


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, i've spent some time tapping around on various panels. most of them have very curved surfaces, and the sheet metal is pretty thick in sections. i think what i'm planning on doing is using expanding foam to fill in some deep cavities along some inner walls to aid in the build out of the enclosures. I lay down some fiberglass on the areas that need reinforcing, namely the one wall that also forms the exterior quarter panel (it's pretty thin and resonates badly), but leaving the strong panels alone, form up the box, and then layup some thick milshake mix to apply to all panels. i have 3m glass bubbles, 1/4" chop strand, and resin i can use, and this should seal up all areas, as well as provide strength in the corners. 

i'm thinking this is all i really need to do. maybe apply some deadener to the box after Ive built it just to ensure there aren't any panel resonances. 

unless someone stops me, and tells me there is a whole in my plan, i think i'm going to move ahead on this.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Matty,

There is a thread on here were a guy stripped his Mosconi amps and covered them w/ something call Shark Skin; looked pretty cool.

Also, did you read Thunderplains build log? he used something call Neffy Wrap carbon fiber wrap. I think I have a link to it.

Neffywrap.com, Home of the Original Neffy Carbon Fiber Wrap

Here is a link to the Shark Skin thread.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/146141-mosconi-series-100-200-300-a.html


Hope this helps.

Randy


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

- mattyjman - 
Just wondering, why do you need the seat back to fold down? Aren't you going IB? 
If yes to the IB question, then you won't be able to put anything in the car's cabin from the trunk... unless I'm missing something 

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'm not sure what post you are referencing, but I still want to use the seat fold down for viewing pleasure  

i know i won't be able to use it for utility's sake


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> i'm not sure what post you are referencing, but I still want to use the seat fold down for viewing pleasure
> 
> i know i won't be able to use it for utility's sake


Well post 102 states that you still want the ability to fold down your rear seats but your plan is to use a pair of SPB15 IB. 
Is it going to be IB behind the rear seats or a trunk baffle one? 

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

oh ok... gotcha...

so the way the seats go in, they need to fold up... the mount on a hinge, so that was concern number 1. and number 2, i want to show off the subs, so, yes, i'll be using the fold down option periodically. 

as for the baffle, they will be back from the seat maybe 3 inches, there is a cross beam that i'll be mounting them to. ... so I suppose that's trunk baffle? the total opening height for the fold down seats is 12" or so, so there is no way that i could mount them up right against the seats.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Gray scotchbrite pad will make the shiney turn to satin.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

trevordj said:


> I just got some of this stuff:
> 
> Coremat® 4mm - Yard - $10.06
> 
> I haven't played with it before but it is pretty pliable and would be relatively easy to layup in a tight spot sandwiched in fiberglass.


Good suggestion! I've used the 2mm version many times - it works wonders in adding strength to flat panels.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, not much progress to post, but a lot of time spent...

still trying to figure out how to do the mids to capitalize on airspace, but still make the install well, install friendly  

the pics won't show it, but the cavity up, down, and towards from the front of the car is seemingly endless, and i was trying to figure out how to seal it all up so i can make a box. 

certain compromises had to be made in order for this to not be incredibly complex, so I went with ease of install over allowable airspace. 

first up was to seal off the top portion. i cut a couple of ply planks that would fit, and sandwiched them up there with some butyl rope. The rope was just to get them to stay up there... when i fiberglass and milkshake, that combo will make them immovable. 

on the b pillar rail side, i took foam/cardboard and sealed up the areas that i could, same for the rear of the car moving towards the trunk. what i couldn't seal up in these three areas, I used some expanding foam to do the rest, and i'll glass over (or milkshake) over everything to ensure strength and a complete seal. 

here's the plank in the top:



i didn't really have any good shots of the inserts and expanding foam, but you'll see it in other photos...

once i sprayed that down, waiting for it to cure I turned to the interior portion of the car. i rough cut a shape for each side, slid it behind the factory panel, and started using dowels to space it out the maximize airspace. 



on both sides, most of the trim piece is almost completely flush with the panel... just enough room for a layer of ccf to keep tings from vibrating incessantly. 

here we are after the panel is removed:



and then, needing to come up with some way to get fiberglass from the trim piece to the car metal, i used cardboard and tape to lay a foundation. 





this whole process took a quite a bit of time. of course, the mundane stuff always does. 

i know it doesn't look pretty, but this won't be seen, and i'm not looking to score points. functionality is key here, and i think this will work for me. 

as for "what" i am going to glass... the fender wall, the trim piece to the factory metal, the front and back internal spaces where i used cardboard/foam, and seal in the top wooden piece... that's it. everything else is as strong as I would normally make it. Everything will get a heavy dosing of 1/4 chop strand, filler, and resin mix to make sure it's airtight and everything is equally coated and strong. then probably add some cld tiles throughout to hopefully keep any sort of possible enclosure resonances down. 

by my estimation, i don't think i'll quite make it to 2 cubes each, but i think i'll at least hit my 1.5 cube target after displacement.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Glad to see you have the midbass enclosure figured out!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

more to come on this... i think the amp rack is going to be badass... but i'll keep all that under wraps for now


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh hell. Horns will work down that low? I've got a 2012 Mustang and I bet I can fit horns down there. Will it work with tweets and woofers off axis in the doors? The tweeters are just under the top of the dash.

Nice Job so far BTW.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

MUGWUMP said:


> Oh hell. Horns will work down that low? I've got a 2012 Mustang and I bet I can fit horns down there. Will it work with tweets and woofers off axis in the doors? The tweeters are just under the top of the dash.
> 
> Nice Job so far BTW.


If you plan on using horns, no need for a tweeter... Using a horn down to 1kHz (even 800Hz), any midbass will work (even up to 12") 

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

MUGWUMP said:


> Oh hell. Horns will work down that low? I've got a 2012 Mustang and I bet I can fit horns down there. Will it work with tweets and woofers off axis in the doors? The tweeters are just under the top of the dash.
> 
> Nice Job so far BTW.





subwoofery said:


> If you plan on using horns, no need for a tweeter... Using a horn down to 1kHz (even 800Hz), any midbass will work (even up to 12")
> 
> Kelvin


kelvin's right, although you would want to pay attention to when the speakers start beaming. 

there is a ton of info already on horns, check out the HLCD section on here - lots of good info and will probably answer most of your questions.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> more to come on this... i think the amp rack is going to be badass... but i'll keep all that under wraps for now


Dang that looks nice!!!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

just wanted to post up a thought... 

i'm in the process of doing my first layers of the midbass panels, and that thought dawns on me... 

what if i put the SBP 15's in there? the opening in the panels goes all the way to the trunk, and supposedly they play pretty high... 

just a funny thought to think about. it'll remain a what if, cause i know they won't fit, but still... how badass would that be? having 2 15" subs completely hidden and out of the way of the trunk. that would be stellar


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, not much to show here, just mid progress shots. i got 2-3 layers of chop all the way around the enclosure. i haven't done anything on the inside portion of the enclosure yet. 

getting stuff on the top was a mighty pain in the ass. for anyone that could benefit, what i found works best for me was to work other areas first, and wait for the resin to start to gel up a bit, then tackle the portions that needed to be done upside down. this kept my brush from dripping resin as much as if the batch was fresh. 








ok, so I can't get the thought out of my head. 15's in the quarter panels. playing 300hz down to 20... or so. 

what could go wrong here? 

i could make them fit. it might require building out the enclosure just a hair but not by much. 

i'm worried about two things. well, three really. 

1.) efficiency of these subs are 90db/1watt ... not really close to the mids and horns. I suspect that I might have some issues matching the drivers. 

2.) rattles. the path that the airway would take is such that i can't get in and reinforce any of the panels. i wonder how much rattling i would get. 

3.) close proximity of the subs. i wonder, since they'd be so close that it would be the same effect as having subs in a center console box. there isn't a lot of time for the soundwaves to bounce around before getting to me, so would i have a diminished subbass response? 

i know i have a lot of people watching this build, i'd really like some feedback on what you would do. 

i'll say, the concept is pretty intriguing, not to mention that it would simplify the install a bit too. 

oh, i guess the other concern is that I've never heard an IB sub before. will I like the results I get? expecially if I'd be using them for subbass AND midbass impact?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

scratch all that... i just drew out a template and while the outer diameter is close to fitting, the basket won't allow it. 

oh well, like i said, just a thought


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ended the day checking to make sure everything cured...

i pulled off the cardboard where i could to expose the fiberglass underneath so i could determine where we were at, and to give me different access points for future glassing, namely the top of the enclosure where it would be easier to fiberglass down as opposed to upside down. 

as you can see, i still have some work to do. i'll probably thrown down a few more layers (2-3) of chop everywhere, and then finish it up with a final layer of kyntex, to ensure strength. 









this project was supposed to move along a lot quicker than it is... goal was to have it done by the end of this month, so I could turn my attention to fixing up my house to get it ready to sell in June. Looks like I'm falling behind, but I'll deal with it. 

I can believe that I've had to start over three times now on the midbass pods... if it wasn't for that, then I would be a lot close to finishing. However, I'm sure the results will be well worth the work, and be nothing less than stellar... that's the hope at least


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

take your time!! 
were watching


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

Enjoying the show MattyJ,

My initial reaction to your "why not just play 20-300 from the rear quarters" was _*2 Ultimos*_. Who says you need 15s? 2 Ultimos with 1000w/ch would thunder! 

ULTIMO Subwoofer « Morel


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/60469-morel-ultimo-12-review.html

Anywhose, just a thought, back to the show!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> getting stuff on the top was a mighty pain in the ass. for anyone that could benefit, what i found works best for me was to work other areas first, and wait for the resin to start to gel up a bit, then tackle the portions that needed to be done upside down. this kept my brush from dripping resin as much as if the batch was fresh.


One thing I do when I have to do a vertical surface is thicken my resin. You can use Talc to thicken until it's peanut butter consistency.

It's cheap stuff too. Here's where I get my resin supplies (and the talc)
Fillers by Fiberglass Supply

Great work, keep it up !


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Chopped mat is your friend when it comes to what you need to finish up.

This is what I would do for an enclosure that is about as tough as a piece of concrete-

resin, chopped mat, some cabosil, and a good amount of dry playground sand. Mix all that **** up until it's like a thick paste. Pour it out on to the surface and spread out with your hand/bondo spreader/brush...and it will stick to the top of the enclosure since it will seem a little dry.

Bewarned, when it dries...it will chew through 24 grit rolloc pads on a die grinder and laugh at them. You might as well try to sand concrete and expect better results. And don't think you will cut much with an airsaw either.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

jason, do you mean chop strands? or the actual mat? 

and how does 3m glass bubbles compare... i assume nothing alike, but i don't know.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

jason, do you mean chop strands? or the actual mat? 

and how does 3m glass bubbles compare... i assume nothing alike, but i don't know.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> Chopped mat is your friend when it comes to what you need to finish up.
> 
> This is what I would do for an enclosure that is about as tough as a piece of concrete-
> 
> ...


Thats likely because of the addition of the sand. 
Why use sand instead of something like talc which can help thicken without making sanding an impossibility? I use Talc and 1/8" chopped strands to thicken and strengthen while keeping it manageable.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

so, yesterday i'm complaining about how long this is taking me... 

today i decided to do something about it. i work quite a bit, and normally feel too tired to bust out some more work when getting home. tonight i got home at 6, and while not much can be done in 1 hour, it's one less thing that i need to do later  

i masked up a few areas that i was going to be glassing and didn't want to get messy, and took to it ...

i laid down 1-2 layers of chop on the top and around the back side of the top of the enclosure... the parts that's harder to get inside the enclosure, and then laid up about 2-3 layers of woven mat on top of the chop to finish it out. the rest of the enclosure can be strengthened from the inside, so that's what i will do next. 

left and right sides .... so purrty... 





no holes, no gaps, and i'll make a sludge mix when all is done and slather the inside for final strength. 



last night i also finished wrapping the 2nd AS 200.4, and need to order some more carbon wrap for the A Class and the remaining pieces of the install that I'll be trimming out.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Well done, way to get motivated. I know what you mean about coming home with little time left in the day and not feeling like you can accomplish anything. It's looking great so far bud. BTW- thos carbon wrapped Mosconi's look crazy good.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

it's about time for another random.... 

mmmmmmm


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> BTW- thos carbon wrapped Mosconi's look crazy good.


Thanks... I was really hesitant. I think when all is said and done it'll pop like magic... i have a few plans for the rack that will be pretty freaking cool... I hope :blush:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Sand adds much mass. Think of it as lead BBs that don't move all around.

Yeah, the chopped mat fibers. I used 1/4 and 1/2". Most of the time 1/4".


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

uhm.

why on earth did you glass right over the wire bundle?? i hope for your sake there arent any wire harness problems! :uhoh:


but really cool none the less.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

req said:


> uhm.
> 
> why on earth did you glass right over the wire bundle?? i hope for your sake there arent any wire harness problems! :uhoh:
> 
> ...


let me ask you a question  ... how many times have you had issues with your wiring harnesses? 

i've never had a problem in any of my cars with wiring bundles... it's normally the plugs, adapters, control boxes, etc... not the wires

of course, if its a bad idea and i'm missing something obvious, there is still time for me to figure out something different... but the short answer is they won't fit anywhere else.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

i was thinking of something like putting a piece of PVC pipe or split loom over it.

even a layer of tape or some aluminum foil around it.

i just dont think i would have glass'd right to the thing. honestly i have never had a problem like that. if the fuse works properly you never should have a problem. but god forbid GM didnt put the system together right and a fuse is not inline or it fails and the wire burns all the way to the tail lights or something stupid.

im not saying it will happen, it would be a first that i have ever seen personally - but i cant discount it. i dont think its going to hurt anything - but i think i would have just put some kind of barrier between the glass and the wires if i was doing it.

thats all


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

I suppose that makes sense.. it appears that I glassed everything but a large portion of the bundle on both sides is loose and untouched... just around the areas that enter and leave the enclosure... I honestly didn't even see it as a potential issue... 

Althogh looking back I had a jetta that caught on fire and the harness melted... coilpacks in the 1.8turbo engine... but I doubt anything like that will happen in the quarter panels, and if it does I probably have bigger issues to worry about


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> Sand adds much mass. Think of it as lead BBs that don't move all around.
> 
> Yeah, the chopped mat fibers. I used 1/4 and 1/2". Most of the time 1/4".


That was the only benefit I thought of after I posted it. And sand can be a hell of a lot cheaper than lead/BB's too that's for damn sure. I'll keep that in mind for parts that I won't need to cut/sand, like insides of enclosures.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

If Matt doesn't get this done soon, it'll be time for him to get a new car before he finishes. LOL

I can't wait to see this thing done and get listening impressions. I'll be in to see what you have to do to get the midbass right (for future reference.)

Jay


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> If Matt doesn't get this done soon, it'll be time for him to get a new car before he finishes. LOL
> 
> I can't wait to see this thing done and get listening impressions. I'll be in to see what you have to do to get the midbass right (for future reference.)
> 
> Jay


Jay... it's a valid concern considering my history  

surprisingly, I think I'll probably have the Camaro for a long time, at least a year ... 

but seriously, I love it. It's everything my BMW was and then some. Plus a manual. I expect it will be in the family for a while. 

As for finishing... I'm so anxious, it's ridiculous. I can see everything I need to do in my head, so mentally speaking it's almost done. my hands just don't work as fast though... 

as for the midbass, i'm just hoping all the time i'm putting into these enclosures are worth the effort. if this thing doesn't pound I WILL trade in the car. 





























jk.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

speaking of enclosures... i have a question about these pods i'm building. as of today, i now have 4-5 good layers of glass all around the box. i can't move the box, and once the last layers cure (laid tonight) i bet none of the sides will flex when i push on them. (they are already pretty strong in most areas). 

when speaking of subs, and specifically sealed boxes, it's important that fiberglass enclosures are super strong and dense, so vibrations are basically not an issue. 

i'm not sure how that translates into ported boxes for subs, but i would suspect that since the enclosure "breathes" there is less pressure on all the surrounding walls - so I'm assuming that means that you wouldn't have to make the enclosures as bullet proof as a sealed enclosure. 

so... in translation to my application, running 63hz up to 300hz or so.... what level of strength is necessary? could i get away with doing a smaller build up than what i would do with a sealed or ported sub? 

I obviously don't want to skimp here, but i also dont want to spend my time on something that's already past its point of diminishing returns... 

thoughts?


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

I've heard that internal pressures can be higher with a ported enclosure, when the air column of the port is pushing back at the air volume of the enclosure, I guess that'd be somewhere around resonance?:shrug:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

GIT-R-DONE! Looks good so far. Don't lets us down


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

anyone else, on my question above about enclosure strength...?


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

"4 - Enclosure design is more complex and the enclosure itself must be more solidly constructed because internal pressure at frequencies around vent tuning can be nearly twice as high as a sealed enclosure"

from Ported Enclosure Pros and Cons | KICKER


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

wow good piece of infor to know.

there prolly wont be a ton of pressure because you wont be pushing as much air and such. maybe after the glass cures you can slap a bunch of duct seal and\or sound dampening on it and that will help mass load it up for resonances.


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

Might consider what the Home theater folks do, and glass in some rods for bracing.










Careful over there, they have a contagious disease that may get you thinking about how to put a pair of these behind your rear seats LOL

2x Obsidian Car Audio 18" v2 demo at SBN - YouTube

OR THESE 
Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer - YouTube


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

benny said:


> "4 - Enclosure design is more complex and the enclosure itself must be more solidly constructed because internal pressure at frequencies around vent tuning can be nearly twice as high as a sealed enclosure"
> 
> from Ported Enclosure Pros and Cons | KICKER


Yep... That's what I remembered reading but wasn't sure 100% 

Best thing to do in your case, Matty, is to tune slightly lower @ 50Hz but cross the driver higher @ 63Hz or even 80Hz - not being near the tuning frequency, the internal pressure might not be twice as high as a sealed enclosure (maybe about as high as a sealed).

But yeah, you would need to strengthen your enclosure - have you ever glassed over ropes? I find that it does make the enclosure stronger...

Kelvin


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I read over on fiberglass forums and in a couple of my composites books that glassing in rope doesn't really do a heck of a lot. 

Just in case you missed it, I would do a sandwich core construction with coremat (its super cheap) over the flat areas and then add some internal bracing.

Edit: take a caliper and measure how thick 5 layers of the fiberglass you used is. If you are using chopped mat, I don't think that will be enough. You probably want to shoot for at least 1/4" of dry material, but again, that is a shot in the dark. As noted above pressures in a ported box are much higher at tuning frequency so it will be pretty important to get this thing strong. Luckily the metal body around your box will help add some strength. 

The stiffness of your box will be increased by about a factor of 10 if you can add a sandwich core... the thicker the better.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> have you ever glassed over ropes? I find that it does make the enclosure stronger...
> 
> Kelvin





trevordj said:


> I read over on fiberglass forums and in a couple of my composites books that glassing in rope doesn't really do a heck of a lot.


i have... i can't speak to adding strength but i can speak to being a mighty pain in the ass to keep bubbles out of  ever since then, i said "no" to using rope.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thanks for the thoughts guys on strength... i've thought about it considerably at work today, and after getting home and tapping around on the cured glass (i don't have calipers), the portions that i have glassed are really quite strong already. i think what helps with this is the relative narrow width of the flat portions... anywhere from 2 - 4", and combined with that is a bit of curves and bumps that i manufactured when i was molding out the box. 

all of this questioning isn't really about how much of a shortcut i can take, but i'm running low on my resin, and need to know whether or not to order more. I've shortcutted things before, and being as this is my "pinnacle" install, i'm not doing that. 

As for what's been done already, I think I will finish up with a final set of layers tomorrow - just keeping with the 1.5oz chop i have, which should be overkill alone, and then will place an order for more resin.... 

I'll try what Jason suggested with mixing play sand, cabosil, chop strands and resin and will finish off the box this way. 

i'll then need to turn my attention to the inside of the enclosure and the remaining walls. these are flatter, wider, and longer than the portions I've done already, so I'll break out the kyntex mat I have for a quicker and stronger build up, sealing everything up with the sludge mix Jason recommended. 

as for the actual need for strength within the ranges that i plan on playing... i have formulated a few thoughts...

while it doesn't make sense to me logically that ported needs to be stronger than sealed... i'll take that for what it is and run with it. however, this to a large degree is comparing the strength of boxes for subs... subs that move a lot of air. air being moved by excursion of the driver. 

being as the 2206 in the plotted enclosure in winisd with 200 watts on it won't reach more than 4mm of xmax, it won't be moving a ton of air, comparably to a 12" sub. I'm all about over building, but when considering what is necessary in an enclosure like this, and the frequencies it will be playing, i almost think it's more important to make sure the enclosure is heavy and dense... carrying more mass to keep the enclosure from resonating at the higher frequencies, than worrying about sheer strength. 

thoughts?


----------



## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Stiffening will raise resonant frequency, mass will lower it. As long as your enclosure isn't resonating within the passband, :thumbsup:


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

hmmmm , interesting and it makes sense. thanks benny!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeah there are two schools of thought about cabinets- one is to kill everything resonance wise by adding mass, and the other says resonance is ok as long as you are not resonating within the pass band. Think home audio cabinets vs. pro audio touring rigs.

Given the shape of the enclosure, the size, and all...I think a good thick layer of my soup mix would be plenty strong. We aren't making airplanes or boats.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, still not much done as i make meager progress with the midbass pods. 

i layed down a healthy amount of layers of kyntex to the inside portion of the enclosure... this is a much thicker mat and allows a quick, strong build up, but it suffers in formability. lucky for me, formability isn't much of an issue since the panels are flat for the most part. 

on the passenger side, i did the back wall first, and then the sides to the left and right of it. i repeated the same on the drivers side but was only able to get the back wall done before it got dark. i think i may have about 4 oz of resin left, enough to do the side walls tomorrow. 







(looking at this made me laugh... made me remember just how far I've come in my install ability. the g35 was my first real build, but i knew nothing then ...  http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/904799-post109.html )


so, with there only being a bit of resin left before I'm completely dry, I placed an order last night for some goodies... looks like i'll need to take a departure from the pods and focus on some other areas.... 

this weekend, I hope to be able to start addressing some of the trunk pieces... amp rack, IB wall, bitone mount, and battery relocation... and of course, i still need to do mlv and stuffs back there. 

making progress. slow and steady wins the race.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Wow, your fiberglassing skills have come a long way. Great job laying down that Knytex too. On those flat areas I think that was a great choice for building up your enclosure thickness/strength quickly.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> making progress. slow and steady wins the race.


 
Exactly. Tackle a little bit at a time and before you know it you'll be there. You have a lot of work in already and alot more to go, but you're making great progress. Enclosures are coming together nicely.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

If you wouldn't mind I'd like to see/hear this car next time I'm in PHX to visit my sister. Should be a really cool build once it's wrapped up.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ I'd be happy to show it to anyone that is around the area.... 

unless it sucks of course, and then no one will be hearing it 

it might be a few weeks before it's done though, hahaha


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I won't be in town for several months. Hell, you might have the car sold on be on to the next one by then. LOL!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Don't jinx me... haha


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Nice build! Might be a little late now but have you considered moving the mids to the kicks. Aside from obviously helping with PLDs and better rear wave isolation , it would also maybe keep your lower leg from obstructing the upper midrange.

Those kicks have an area behind the inner skin that can also be cut away and allow for a large vented mid enclosure (IB'ish). Here's a build where it was used for a JBL 660GTi component set.

Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com - View Single Post - World Champion Camaro Custom Install


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That's where I would be putting the Audax.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com - View Single Post - World Champion Camaro Custom Install


Best looking kicks I ever seen in this install!!!!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Hmm. Team tca. I wonder if that is Sketoes Camaro...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

minor update, since today is friday... just got the drivers side walls done. 3 layers of kyntex each... 





quick note about expanding foam - it dissolves slowly with resin... luckily not fast enough to be a worry in this case, but i thought it was interesting to note. 

so, tapping around on the exterior panel was fun... all around it sounds like it should, flimsy sheet metal with nothing around it... then you get to the enclosure, and you get a satisfying thud. 

with the exception of the mud paste i'll be applying, this marks the end of the fiberglassing of the inner midbass tubs    

NOW I can say I'm making progress...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Yep... That's what I remembered reading but wasn't sure 100%
> 
> Best thing to do in your case, Matty, is to tune slightly lower @ 50Hz but cross the driver higher @ 63Hz or even 80Hz - not being near the tuning frequency, the internal pressure might not be twice as high as a sealed enclosure (maybe about as high as a sealed).
> 
> ...





t3sn4f2 said:


> Nice build! Might be a little late now but have you considered moving the mids to the kicks. Aside from obviously helping with PLDs and better rear wave isolation , it would also maybe keep your lower leg from obstructing the upper midrange.
> 
> Those kicks have an area behind the inner skin that can also be cut away and allow for a large vented mid enclosure (IB'ish). Here's a build where it was used for a JBL 660GTi component set.
> 
> Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com - View Single Post - World Champion Camaro Custom Install





thehatedguy said:


> That's where I would be putting the Audax.


funny story about this actually.... :blush:

the linked build was one that I poured over initially when thinking about what to do. and I was well aware of the kicks and the room that's provided inside the panel. 

the thing is, i wanted to stay away from major modification of the vehicle, so I quickly put it out of my mind. out of site, out of mind, and I haven't really thought about it since. 

go ahead... laugh. staying away from major modification ... hah. it's only a few cuts right  it's not like i haven't done more with the midbass pods... 

so, with a move like this i can do a few things... move the wiring bundles behind the wall, so they are out of the way in the kicks. (currently giving me some grief). I'll get better PLD's which I understand. I'll probably get better depth and width out of a set up like this as well. 

here are the downsides... I really really really like my dead pedal. I vowed not to give that up this time around. I won't compromise on that. I won't. and the other downside is I have to cut more metal. 

Not much cons, and some strong pros for a move... 

so here are my questions... the size of the driver, i can probably sink the whole thing INSIDE the kick area, so that should save me getting rid of my dead pedal or losing any or full functionality of it. However, the driver will be firing FULL off axis... straight towards the other side. 

now, i think it was power response ?? ... something about making sure the polar response patterns and crossover points allow all the drivers being used to exhibit the same response patterns... helps in making sure the speakers blend well. if I go full off axis, and even sink the speaker in 1/4" (if it fits all the way in) will I be hurting anything by doing that? 

I know ideal would be going with a partial axis or even full on axis alignment, but I don't want to lose the deadpedal. 

So, with the constraints listed, I don't think anyone needs to sell me on a move. Someone just needs to help me understand if a move with the intended install I would have for it will work?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Below beaming, polar response is wide - since you're using horns, the 6" midrange will work great even 90° away from you 
I'd say go ahead with the kicks and keep your dead pedal 

Kelvin


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## SteveH! (Nov 7, 2005)

pocket5s said:


> Hmm. Team tca. I wonder if that is Sketoes Camaro...


NOPE that is todd's comp car he's done pretty good with it. have not seen sketoe's camaro yet


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, i've given it considerable thought, and I've decided to remove the horns



































to cut the kicks


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> well, i've given it considerable thought, and I've decided to remove the horns
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aw man, why? You stared at those other pics posted earlier too long.....didn't you?


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

WOOHOO! Those cars are plenty strong with a little less steel in the kick


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Thumbs up!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'm pretty much doing everything over... i should just start a new log, haha... 

summer is fast approaching and it's going to get hella hot out here... 

i'm outsourcing some work, so that should speed things along a bit, but I have a long way to go... I just hope I don't have to work too long in the 115 degree heat before it's all wrapped up


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

wow dude! cant wait to see those pictures!

i wish my car had kicks like that ;(


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Send the car out to me in North Carolina...I'll do it up for you.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ do it for free   haha... it's just some metal fab I'm outsourcing for the amp rack, battery relocation, and bitone rack. 

this should save me quite a bit of time. the rest of the fun stuff is still all me


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

lol, i meant that i wish that my car had giant voids in between the sheet metal like that LOL - not "kicks like his car"


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

req said:


> wow dude! cant wait to see those pictures!
> 
> i wish my car had kicks like that ;(


Yeah, that'd be great to have lots of room in the kicks.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

pulled out the horns today. easy peasy. 

finally got some more of my carbon vinyl, so i turned to finish the last amp, the A Class. 

Here are some gut shots ... (would really like to know what I'm looking at and what my money was spent on exactly.)



and after covering...

PITA... but it looks good. the amps seem to have a bluish hue in the photos but they are black, and from a distance look really special


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

subwoofery said:


> Below beaming, polar response is wide - since you're using horns, the 6" midrange will work great even 90° away from you
> I'd say go ahead with the kicks and keep your dead pedal
> 
> Kelvin


Bingo.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> pulled out the horns today. easy peasy.
> 
> finally got some more of my carbon vinyl, so i turned to finish the last amp, the A Class.
> 
> ...


 
Great work on the CF vinyl. Those amps look dead sexy.

Looking forward to more updates !

.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> Here are some gut shots ... (would really like to know what I'm looking at and what my money was spent on exactly.)


from where Im lookin', you paid for a beefytits p0wer supply and output section. That looks like a killer amp!


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Great job with the CFv!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

so, minor update but i'm so stoked that i can't wait for more pictures. my buddy Jon, from Handcrafted Car Audio in Mesa, is working on the metal fab portions I mentioned earlier. 

Looking at the (almost) final for the amp rack I realize now just how challenging I made it, and he came through like a champ  There is NO way I could have taken what I wanted to do, and done it with my woodworking skills... metal fab was the only way to go. 

more to come and more pieces to display, but here's a teaser until I get it all back.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Looks good, can't wait to see it finished.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Damn right. Thats nice work. This install is coming along really nicely. It's going to be SICK.

EDIT: BTW- I'm going to have to PM you. I'll be needing an amp rack fabbed as well down the line here.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Well, I think we should just make this my Midbass enclosure build... all it ever seems I work on, however, after getting the car back late afternoon yesterday, I set out to cover 2 days worth of work into 1 today... made what I would consider considerable headway to completion of my midbass project. as soon as this is over, I feel like the rest of the project will snowball to completion pretty quickly. 

so, many of you were mentioning concern over the bundles that the box covers... i wasn't, however, I was concerned about this module, and where exactly I was going to put it...





now i've messed with wiring and solder, but never took the time to actually relocate something, which I determined is what I needed to do. last night, I took to prepping some wires. didn't take long, but I cut 16 wires, same length, tinned the wires, and then added 2 tubes of heat shrink onto each wire. 





this morning, first goal was to get this module relocated as fast as possible... ended up taking about 3 hours ... fast or slow, i don't really now... but it's done and it works, and the car can drive... that's all that anyone can ask for...

first, i drilled a hole in the bottom of the midbass pod... good chance to look at thickness and it's not bad at all... more thick than I thought. 



unwrapping the wiring protection, this is what you see... 16 wires... different colors and combos except 4 wires, which I labeled on both of the sides of the harness



already having disconnected the negative on the battery, I still snipped each wire individually. I had a bad experience once with wiring, when i snipped a positive and negative wire together and it shorted something... who 'da' thunk it. 



i threaded the bundle and a speaker wire for the driver through the 1" hole I drilled...



i tinned each wire individually, then joined the wires together...



at this point, i just killed it and kept working, no more progress pics for you. 

at completion, i wrapped the whole bundle with electrical tape, and also wrapped a bit with ccf, where it slides through the enclosure. 



threaded the wires under the enclosure and into the trunk area, where I temporarily have mounted the module. this will be the final resting place, but i plan on making a more permanent mount.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

once that was completed, it was time to turn to the final portions of strengthening the enclosure, and prepping it for the top. 

first up was to take care of this mess... i used expanding foam but it wasn't something i really wanted to fiberglass over since it was all bumpy, so I started making a sludge mix. 

cabosil, play sand, and resin... 





and then started to reinforce and seal up any possible air leak areas...





one area i was particularly concerned with was the spot where the glass joined up with the outer ring. I ran this mix all around, squeeging in any missed spots and sealing up any possible air pockets. this should strengthen the joints as well. 





this took quite a bit of time for some reason. but after that was all set, I left it to cure, and turned to making the trim rings for the 2206h midbasses and fabbing up some ports. 

the picture in my head I couldn't make a reality, so I'll have to rethink how I'll be refinishing this. my plan was to flush trim the speakers and the ports in, but there wasn't enough width for a wider trim ring of both the speaker mount and the port. this will do, and I'll fab up a cool cover for it to compensate for the change in plans.

after routing out the rings, I added some wood inserts. I'll be using the wt3 woofer tester to make sure my enclosures have the same airspace, so i don't have a different tune, which will mean i'll be taking out the speaker often enough to make these a necessity. plus, it's just nicer. strong, secure, and not cheaply installed. 



and then my 4" ports. I used a roundover bit on the top and the bottom of the ports to keep "chuffing" down (if it will even exist)


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Sweet dedicated work that's for sure... :thumbsup: 

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

the sludge mix cured fast, and hard as a rock... 

returning to this right after i made the ports and baffles, I threw down some final deadening, just for good measure. I have no idea if it will do anything, but it set me at ease, so whatever. 



on both sides, i stapled grill cloth around the opening of the enclosure. initially i was planning on stapling on the inside, splitting the baffle in half essentially, but it was tough as nails getting staples in, due to some extra glass in some areas. i bit the bullet and just went around the outside...



then placed my rings and ports where i wanted them, and used a few scrap pieces of wood to secure them in place, flushing them with the rest of the trim. 

i planned it this way so that I could reinforce the visible side of the enclosure, as well as the rings, so this was the way to do that. 





and after my initial resin job... i got some resin behind the rings to aid in adhesion... it doesn't look pretty, but it doesn't need to. none of this will be seen and i will all be covered with the factory plastic panels. 





and that's it, guys... i'm taking the rest of the night off, and will start up tomorrow after work again... gotta get this done.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Seeing those rings in there made me realize just how big those midbasses are. This setup is going to kick some serious ass.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, they are 12's 

i'd be surprised if, when all is said and done, this isn't the best system I've ever done.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Damn, nice progress!
I like the idea of glassing the rings on top and then using your FG mixture and body filler to build up around them for strength.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

yea looking real cool.

but why not just cut a flat piece of wood and cut a hole for the sub and a hole for the port?

i dont really get why you are going through the extra work at glassing when it would have been way easier to just use a piece of plywood or mdf there 

anyway - keep it up!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

you are quite right sir... it was hot outside, and obviously i became delirious. 

it all started when the initial plan didn't go quite right, then i had to improvise, then improvise again... the most obvious outcome just completely passed me by.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

req said:


> yea looking real cool.
> 
> but why not just cut a flat piece of wood and cut a hole for the sub and a hole for the port?
> 
> ...


Matty loves the smell of curing resin  Being hot outside made every smell more intense 

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ it makes me hungry actually... and then sick to my stomach  haha...


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

are you going to redo it? or just keep going in the fiberglass direction? hehe

sorry i pointed that out


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'm going to forge on ahead. there a few problems with a bigger baffle, none that couldn't be figured out, but since I'm already headed down this road, I'll keep with it. I'm not terribly worried about it and i should be able to make quick work with it.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Hmm, good point Andy. 

It might be a good idea to use something to add strength to the large-ish front panel since it will be all FG. Maybe chicken wire, or some thin metal rods, something like that?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

only an hour and half of light once i got home, hurried up, changed, and got to it. man was I excited to see a fitment picture... like my goals are finally, finally, being realized. 

here you go... blam  



this took 15 minutes to cut out the inner, and remove the brackets, and make sure everything was secure enough. 

then, on to glassing... i have no idea how many layers i did, but it was many... enough to lose count, but if i had to take a guess it's 4-5 in most areas. 





as for strength... i should have gone with a baffle board. however, i don't see strength being much of a concern here. the speaker rings are sandwiched inbetween the wood frame, and only have a small crack in between each side. I'll fill this with the sludge mix, and the baffle for the speaker will be hard as rock. 

same with the ports. 

then that leaves all the other area... which, when you look at it, is pretty minimal. every piece has a slight curve to it, one way or another, so it isn't exactly flat... and after digging for an hour huffing the fumes, I don't think a number of layers on here is going to be much work at all. strength won't be an issue when i'm done, and that will be here fairly soon. 

appreciate all the comments guys... i'm looking forward to showing you what else my brain has thought up of for the rest of the install.  and they won't take nearly as long either... hahaha


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## mark620 (Dec 8, 2010)

How many hrs so far into the car? How many brain cells lost to resin inhalation? lol

Looks great , so are really going all out..


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

probably have over 80 hours into it so far... i haven't been counting to be honest, and to be fair, if i didn't have to start over so many times, I would have been closer to finishing than I am now. 

resin fumes are great


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I know what you mean Matt. I've probably got a solid 35 hours in mine and I don't feel like I've gotten much done. Thats why I just take the approach of 'chipping away' at the job. It's probably going to take me another 30 hours to complete just the kicks in my mazda because of how much detail has to go into them- same as you with these enclosures. Those look friggin bitchin. I bet they are going to absolutely smoke with those JBL's in there. Make sure you deaden the hell out of your plastic panels nearby and get some foam on the back of them at any contact points. How far are you with the other guts of the project (wiring runs and source unit) ?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

as for the plastic panels, a majority of it will be cut away and replaced with a grill... lots of ccf and thinsulate will be going in there to help dampen any resonances... 

as for the rest, i haven't done jack.  

the metal for the bitone, battery rack, and amp rack is all fabbed up, the kicks are cut and awaiting the speaker install... 

running wires should be simple... and still have a ton of deadening to do still. 

im a pretty process oriented person ( think project management would be a good career for me  ), so the other night i went through the rest of the install in my head, step by step, and plotted it all out. 

with that being done, the rest really won't be that intense... quite simple actually. the midbass pods seem to be the most technical and time consuming part of this entire install, which is why i'm so keen on finishing them. after they are done, i should be able to speed through the rest. the only thing I'm really dreading outside of the midbass pods is the wiring in the trunk... lots of wires to go all over, and very limited space to do it.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> as for the plastic panels, a majority of it will be cut away and replaced with a grill... lots of ccf and thinsulate will be going in there to help dampen any resonances...
> 
> as for the rest, i haven't done jack.
> 
> ...


I chose the same approach. Get the hardest tasks out of the way first.
Ok, so running wiring wasn't very difficult since I pulled the entire interior for the kickpanel work, but other than that... 
I feel like once you know out the hardest challenge, everything else (even when it's tough work) seems "easy" since you're not dreading it. I still have to (after I finish the kicks) figure out a mounting solution for 3-4 amps (hence my comment about PMing you regarding an amp rack, which is still forthcoming) and fiberglass the hatch/spare tire well for the sub.


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

Looking good!

Just to avoid the possibility of being "done" and having resonances coming from the fiberglass panel, I'd epoxy in a couple of 1" wooden dowels for bracing/anchoring the face to the back. 

But that's just me :wiseguy:


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

ultimatemj said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Just to avoid the possibility of being "done" and having resonances coming from the fiberglass panel, I'd epoxy in a couple of 1" wooden dowels for bracing/anchoring the face to the back.
> 
> But that's just me :wiseguy:


Agreed. The ywon't take up much space and will provide considerable bracing. You can find wooden dowels at Joanne's Fabrics and cut a couple to length and glue/resin them in place. Or just hack up an old broom stick as it's about the same diameter.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

mattyjman said:


>


*Damn... *


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Solid suggestion on the bracing... what's the best way to affix them, do you think? It will be hard to reinforce them once they are in there since there isn't a huge opening to work with.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

When I did them for boxes, I used wood glue, but since you're working with a FG enclosure here, you could either mix up a small pot of hot resin mix with some additives to thicken it, cut the dowels just short enough to get them in there and then paste them in using the FG mixture, or use something like gorilla glue which will hold them in well too (and it expands as a bonus).That's probably what I'd use as it will be easier and will expand to fill gaps. 3 or 4 dowels should do nicely. You can place them (looking at your picture with the JBL in place) at 9:00, 11:00, 1:00 and 5:00

Should make for a really solid enclosure with minimal space taken up.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Or you could use some two part epoxy.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

just came back from the gym, giving my pods a double shot of steroids 

two layers of kyntex, and 2 layers of chop... I'd say they'll end up pretty darn strong now. 





i think next up will be adding a few wooden rods as was suggested, and filling out the rest of the panel with the sludge mix to get in all the cracks that i haven't been able to. 

once that is complete, i think it's on to measuring the enclosures and getting the response even... so close, i can taste it


----------



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

req said:


> yea looking real cool.
> 
> but why not just cut a flat piece of wood and cut a hole for the sub and a hole for the port?
> 
> ...


oohhhhh, i finally get it. haha... 

i thought your suggestion here was more in line with what i would have had to do with the baffle in my case... but then i was thinking about it when i was in the car, and realized, your suggestion was too obvious for me... 

so, here's the real reason why i didn't go the direction you mentioned... 

if i was to take a panel and just screw it in to the existing wood ring trim, the entire enclosure would then be 3/4" too thick to fit behind the factory panel. if that wasn't the case, then I would have surely done that. 

i thought your suggestion, in taking account the install limitations just mentioned, that you would add a baffle that would fit "inside" the mdf trim ring... and then attach it somehow there. this would still involve some type of fiberglass around the cracks at least to make sure the panel is immovable. 

so, now that everything is fully explained, does my choice make a bit more sense


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Just curious, have you had a chance to test fit the factory trim panel with the sub in its new home yet? Wondering how close it is with the sub mounted.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bigbubba said:


> Just curious, have you had a chance to test fit the factory trim panel with the *sub* in its new home yet? Wondering how close it is with the sub mounted.


Midbass*


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Well...yeah...  Not used to referring to a 12" speaker as a midbass. So wish I could get a chance to hear this when it's done.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

bigbubba said:


> Just curious, have you had a chance to test fit the factory trim panel with the sub in its new home yet? Wondering how close it is with the sub mounted.


i haven't but i can tell you it's damn close, or just too big. I'll have to mod the panels a bit, which isn't a problem. I just wanted the initial enclosure to fit behind the panels, this way when i sell the car and return it to stock, I can leave these in there and no one will have a problem with it since it's completely out of the way.


----------



## req (Aug 4, 2007)

mattyjman said:


> oohhhhh, i finally get it. haha...
> 
> i thought your suggestion here was more in line with what i would have had to do with the baffle in my case... but then i was thinking about it when i was in the car, and realized, your suggestion was too obvious for me...
> 
> ...


AHHH, i see 

i guess if that were the case, i would maybe have made that funky shaped piece of ring a flushmount double baffle type deal, and then you could drop in your baffle - and screw it together. or maybe rabbit both 3\4" pieces half way so they interlock. then you could have put down some gasket foam and been able to remove the front baffle to deaden the interior to your hearts content and expierement with drivers and port lengths futher down the road if these arent working the way you want them to (lets hope they do!!)...

i dunno, i definatly wouldnt have just glassed the front on


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, what's done is done now. You're right about changability, but I doubt I'll need to do anything with that. (I'm hoping). I moving ahead assuming these are going to work exactly the way I need them to. 

Since I don't have an actual measurement of the internal volume, I'm assuming that it looks to be between 1 cube and 1.5 cubes. I'll also throw in some polyfill as well to aid in the enclosure department. For port tuning, I chose around 3" which should provide me a tune between 63 and 75hz - depending on actual internal volume. I'm assuming we are closer to the 1.5 cubes anyhow, so this should be perfect. Unless something I haven't thought about comes up, this should be a turnkey solution and work as expected. -- i'm hoping this is the only time I'll have to deal with these enclosures... ever.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, question... at what point would internal bracing not be worth the effort... remember, we are talking about midbass here, not subs.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

oh, and in case anyone was wondering what fitment looks like so far behind the panels, here's a shot for you.


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

Unfortunately, it is hard to say...you may not need any...and it is diminishing returns...but you'd rather have more than enough than too little 

If it were me, the minimum would be 1 "in the middle" between the driver and the vent, but since it is not that much more effort, I'd do 3 or 4 and eliminate the variable.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Same here. It's very quick and easy task and will ensure you don't have any excess flex. May as well knock it out now while you're in there and able to do it easily. It's just one more thing you don't have to worry about. In fact, I'd argue that its much more important than putting polyfill stuffing in there.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ultimatemj said:


> Unfortunately, it is hard to say...you may not need any...and it is diminishing returns...but you'd rather have more than enough than too little
> 
> If it were me, the minimum would be 1 "in the middle" between the driver and the vent, but since it is not that much more effort, I'd do 3 or 4 and eliminate the variable.


no shortcuts on this build, that's for sure 



captainobvious said:


> Same here. It's very quick and easy task and will ensure you don't have any excess flex. May as well knock it out now while you're in there and able to do it easily. It's just one more thing you don't have to worry about. In fact, I'd argue that its much more important than putting polyfill stuffing in there.


polyfill would play a different role than bracing.... right?

the reason why I ask this question... i didn't realize how quickly and thick my build up would be. after the double layer of kyntex and double of chop, on top of the already 3-4 initial layers, it's pretty damn strong and thick... i'd say close to .4" in some areas. I tried hard, to get part of the baffle to move, just a bit, just a little flex... and nothing. the car was shaking. but not the enclosure. 

i'll throw some rods in there anyway, just to be safe and not have to redo it... but i was curious just how important it would be at this point. 

i mean, afterall (i have to keep reminding myself) this isn't a sub... it's a 12", which make me think sub, but it's not. winisd doesn't show this getting over 4mm of xmax with 200 watts on it. enclosure flexing shouldn't be an issue at all.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

id do one quick rod in each at the middle and finish it up


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## pcabinatan (Sep 9, 2009)

Sub'd great build look forwrd to seeing it complete!


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

Dynamat extreme inside and out and some deflex pads in there, and some lite acoustic fiberglass insulation,man this car is going to sound amazing.nice work!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

being as this is midbass here, speaking 300hz and down, how much of that panel should i cut... i'm prepared to cut all of it, but wondering if it's really necessary. i think more for resonances than anything else... thoughts?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> being as this is midbass here, speaking 300hz and down, how much of that panel should i cut... i'm prepared to cut all of it, but wondering if it's really necessary. i think more for resonances than anything else... thoughts?


Yup... Have to worry about resonance only - don't think you need to cut more if the panel doesn't vibrate 

Kelvin


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Ideally, I wouldnt want the cone blocked by the panel so as to avoid any cancellation. I'd make the cutout at the bottom follow the rounded baffle/mounting ring shape for the JBL. Then, I'd make a "grille" frame template however you'd like it to look out of cardboard and transfer it to wood. I'd cut it out and adhere it to the plastic panel, and then use FG/filler to close up all the cutout area's outside of the grill section to fill in the panel. Then I'd use metal grille material to protect the speakers and port behind the panel and finish it off with grille cloth either the whole panel, or just the grille section and then texture paint the rest of the panel.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Something like this (after removing the section covering the cone:











.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

haha.... you, my friend, read my mind. this is exactly what i was planning. almost to the T.

please keep your telekinetic abilities to yourself  j/k


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> haha.... you, my friend, read my mind. this is exactly what i was planning. almost to the T.
> 
> please keep your telekinetic abilities to yourself  j/k


:laugh:

I'm a visual thinker 

Do you think you'll do texture spray and just grill cloth the metal grill section, or grill cloth the whole panel?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i got a bunch of texture stuff a while ago when i was planning the panel. what i want to do is find a way to finish the enclosure panel smooth, and then have a press fit grill that's removable so i can show off the speakers and ports. i just need to think through a finish solution for the actual enclosure that won't have me sanding IN the car. that's the only bad part about this part of the install... in order to make it look nice, i need to do some sort of finish work, but i don't want to make a mess of the car... 

and this is a daily driver as welll... so any dust created will have to be cleaned up every night so i can drive without dust in my eyes


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

You mean the actual baffle front where the drivers mount to (so when you remove the panel it stil llooks decent) ?

If so, just use this stuff. You can find it at Lowes or HD. Its the thick texture stuff. Lay down 2 coats of this followed by your color choice and it will look great. If you click my link for the mazda 3 install (older one) in my sig you can see where I used it on the door panels. It hides inperfections very well.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> You mean the actual baffle front where the drivers mount to (so when you remove the panel it stil llooks decent) ?
> 
> If so, just use this stuff. You can find it at Lowes or HD. Its the thick texture stuff. Lay down 2 coats of this followed by your color choice and it will look great. If you click my link for the mazda 3 install (older one) in my sig you can see where I used it on the door panels. It hides inperfections very well.


yes, the mounting baffle, but a can of texture and spray paint won't do it for me, i'll want a nicer solution than that. i'll figure something out... i really want to flush in the driver, and have everything smooth around it. perhaps, i can do a removable flush trim panel, and then build a grill off of that which is removable, and then build up the plastic panel around that... i'll have to play with it and see what i can do.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Thats a hell of a lot of work. And you dont want to have to take off that whole panel. Why not then just condense the grill cutout from the large angled area pictured to just enclose the driver and port. Then you can simply make sure its clean flat, and textured on the baffle and when you pull of the smaller grill it only reveals the JBL and port instead of the rest of whats going on behind the panel.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i think we are on the same page, it's very similar to what I was thinking...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

not much to show... my frustration got the best of me today so i quit early, but i did get the midbass panels finished. 

i need to measure them to ensure correct airspace and tuning per each enclosure, but we are officially done with them... minus some spray paint and minor sanding...

two braces per enclosure :





and i used a combo of 1/4" chop strand, cabosil, and resin to fill in the fronts... sturdy as a ****ing rock now  





just gotta do some minor sanding, a texture coat, and then build the trim that goes around the panel and i'm good to go  !!!! 

this saga is OVER. Now it's on to other things


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

which brings me to a question... if i had to take a guess, the drivers side has a bit more volume than the passenger side... when i measure with the wt3, what should i look for to tell me this, AND, what should I use to take up excess airspace with?


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I am just learning this now, but when you test the driver in the enclosure with the WT3 you will see two peaks in your impedance curve. The valley between those (your minimum impedance) gives your enclosure tuning frequency. If there is a discrepancy you can just fill the larger enclosure a bit to get them similar.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Here is a good example: 

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Speakers/Fostex-FX120-Bass-Reflex/FX120-Bass-Reflex-Impedance.png

Also notice the point where your group delay crosses 0 degrees is also your tuning frequency. Again, I am just learning about this myself so I am definitely not an expert here.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thanks trevor...  that makes sense.

how about an easy way to take up volume, to level each enclosure out. Anything cheap and easy come to your guys minds?


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## asota (Feb 7, 2011)

Fiberglass resin and sand, not real cheap but will add density and strength while taking up some space.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

First wait to see if the differences in volume actually matter.

Could use some spray foam to soak up some space.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Liquid nails chunks of 2x4 in there


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

welll guys, it looks like an end to the saga is very very close. 

sanded down the enclosures a bit, where the rough stuff was, blocked it off and sprayed it a bit for uniformity, and then installed a port grill on the rear of the ports ... i intend on using some polyfill and i don't want that chuffing everywhere when i'm driving  

i'm on my way to get a laptop ... ex took mine and i've been meaning to get one anyway, and then will be testing... goal is to have this in and installed ready to go by the end of the day 

after sanding, ready for paint...




after spraying came the grills. just used some grill gloth and secured with a wire tie around the tube. 






i know this whole things still looks like ****, but again, none of this will be seen. i just sprayed it down and sanded so the whole thing didn't look like utter crap


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Looks great to me. Those things should hit like a hammer!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> First wait to see if the differences in volume actually matter.
> 
> Could use some spray foam to soak up some space.


are you saying based on actual listening, or testing?


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

just a tip, put a section of grill cloth over the hole after you put in your polyfill, a few staples to hold it in, then put the midbass in there.

that will stop the fibers from the polyfill from possibly making it into the gap.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thats a solid suggestion


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, here it is, in all it's glory  



and with some testing... i'll probably need some help deciphering the results... i know they aren't an exact match..

this is the driver side:



passenger side


and then combined... 



it appears as though the passenger side has more volume, but when i added some items inside, nothing really changed... it was so miniscule i thought it odd, maybe i didn't use enough material

thoughts please?


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Do they sound like you expected?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

benny said:


> Looks great to me. Those things should hit like a hammer!


I agree, looks just fine to me. Doesn't need to be any prettier then that.

Looks solid, well done Matt.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Im no expert either, but those look pretty similar to me. If you want a better reading, put something large and dense in there. A couple of 2x4 sections, some bricks, whatever you have handy.

Those things look menacing with drivers loaded


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

looking rad mat.

like they said, how do they sound?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ who knows. I just put them on the wt3... 

i'm not currently set up to give them power and limited bandwidth... although tapping on the cone made me smile 

still wondering if i need to be concerned with the response differences...


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## strakele (Mar 2, 2009)

Awesome build! I'd love to be able to hear it some day. 

As far as the slight differences in the WT results, I wouldn't worry about it. You'd probably see small differences like that just taking 2 speakers and putting them in the exact same enclosure.


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

Looking good sir.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

strakele said:


> Awesome build! I'd love to be able to hear it some day.
> 
> As far as the slight differences in the WT results, I wouldn't worry about it. You'd probably see small differences like that just taking 2 speakers and putting them in the exact same enclosure.


And on top of that, factor in the whole mess that is the car environment, reflections, nulls, cancellation, etc and I don't think it will be of significance either.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

strakele said:


> Awesome build! I'd love to be able to hear it some day.
> 
> As far as the slight differences in the WT results, I wouldn't worry about it. You'd probably see small differences like that just taking 2 speakers and putting them in the exact same enclosure.





captainobvious said:


> And on top of that, factor in the whole mess that is the car environment, reflections, nulls, cancellation, etc and I don't think it will be of significance either.


thanks guys... makes sense. I actually thought, as one looks to be a slightly different cone if it could have been different driver parameters that actually made the change. I know the enclosures aren't perfectly the same, but I know they are darn close. 



tintbox said:


> Looking good sir.



thanks for all the compliments guys. it drives me nuts that i can't hear it yet.


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Bump for some updates


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

the only update right now is that it's freaking hott already and i'm past my timeline... 

days are already into the 100's....


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

the last couple of weeks, work has been literally kicking my ass... couple the exhaustion when i get home with the heat outside, this install has my literally frustrated. not because of complexity, but rather because i would LOVE to hear it, but it's taking SOOOO long to complete. 

I've finished up a few odds and ends concerning the install, things that i needed to address before i drop off the car again. 

yes, that's right, i'm having Jon finish out the install. I'm completely satisfied with his quality of work, and his competence in finishing out my vision for the install. 

he'll be finishing out the entire trunk, amps, distribution, wiring, sub wall, etc... as well as finishing out the midbass covers, and the kickpanels/horns in the front. doesn't sound like a lot of work, but there is quite a bit that needs to be done. 

at some point in time, all this diy/building was fun for me, now it seems to be more a nuisance than anything else. don't get me wrong, it's still fun, but i'd rather be spending my time working on other things in my life, and it's not the right time for a hobby with a build that would have taken me months to complete. 

with all that being said, i'm dropping the car back off this week, and hopefully soon we'll have a finished product with one big grin on my face as I hear this thing for the first time, post tune. 

so, i'm sparse on pictures... 

i've removed the 6x9s and filled up the holes with aluminum, ccf, and deadener. i finished out the rest of the rear deck with deadener, and have taken a super thin rear deck to a solid non reverberating barrier that will keep the IB wall happy 

i also finally got some more deadening done, namely the rear seat riser. i was able to get the mlv/ccf/cld combo applied and i reinstalled the seat just to see what the difference would be when driving... its noticeable. 

i pulled out the mids and took care of the polyfill... i didn't get around to it last time i was messing with them. I used 1 1/2 pillows per side... not sure how much poly that is, but it's loosely stuffed and hopefully should aid in getting a lower tuning out of the enclosure by appearing larger volume-wise. 



i also took to sealing up any holes that needed to be addressed with the IB wall. i used expanding foam to do this, and while it doesn't look pretty it certainly helped seal the area as well as add some density to the metal. 











if you look at the structurally reinforced areas around the rear deck, you'll see where we'll be attaching the wall... it really should be quite simple yet effective at the same time.


hopefully, the next update I have here is with completed pics  stay tuned


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## ariko81 (Dec 15, 2008)

Man I'm in!! Got an install about to begin with 2206's going in the rear as well. Gotta say, they look MEAN in that shot from the trunk. By God, I bet it will be unreal.

Keep up the great work! It WILL be worth every ounce of effort you're putting in.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

small update... looks like the car won't be coming back in completed fashion as was expected. we'll see where we are at after i get the car back next week.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

What do you mean get it back? Where did it go?


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## astrochex (Aug 7, 2009)

bigbubba said:


> What do you mean get it back? Where did it go?


See post 352.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

What happened? 

Much respect for turning the car over to a pro to finish it up. I did the same thing with my truck, took it up to Bing to do the stuff that's out of my DIY league.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Golden Ear said:


> What happened?
> 
> Much respect for turning the car over to a pro to finish it up. I did the same thing with my truck, took it up to Bing to do the stuff that's out of my DIY league.


i wish it was that easy... well, it was supposed to be at least... 

i don't want to say too much before I get the car back, but .... well, let's just say all of a sudden I am rudely awakened to why I DIY in the first place


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Uh oh, hopefully there isn't too much carnage.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I hear you though, sometimes I wonder why the hell I put myself through the stress of this stuff.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

What happened (say too much...lol)


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok, I don't want to blow this out of proportion. some things will be done, nothing is wrecked. 

being in my career, i'm very sensitive to two things : ROI, and customer service. I'll detail my thoughts more clearly when the car comes back.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> Ok, I don't want to blow this out of proportion. some things will be done, nothing is wrecked.
> 
> being in my career, i'm very sensitive to two things : ROI, and customer service. I'll detail my thoughts more clearly when the car comes back.


I'm sure i speek for everyone when i say we're all hoping its all good bro.


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Golden Ear said:


> I'm sure i speek for everyone when i say we're all hoping its all good bro.


Speak* 

But other than that... What he said!


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

BlueAc said:


> Speak*
> 
> But other than that... What he said!


Yeah, that too. Lol


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> .... well, let's just say all of a sudden I am rudely awakened to why I DIY in the first place


 
The same reason I and most everyone here does, I gather...$$$$$ ! That and/or quality installers who can delievr what you're looking for. If I could afford it and had a guy like a JT or Bing over here, I'd love to have them do some install work for me. I usually end up coming back to the DIY route though because of the lack of both of those things.

No worries Matt, you'll get there in due time. I'd love to have mine done and rocking too, but like you- I'm a busy man with lots of other things taking up my time. So I have to chip away at it. That truly is the mentality that you have to take with a huge project build like this one (and mine). Personally, I don't mind the building. I'm always learning something new and getting better at the craft the more I do, and although it's very tiresome and at times tedious, it still has an almost theraputic affect. 
Just keep chugging along brother, we're here for inspiration and support !




-Steve


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> Just keep chugging along brother, we're here for inspiration and support


That, and to post cat pics if necessary.


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## ariko81 (Dec 15, 2008)

lol ^

GREAT video. :laugh:


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)




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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

mattyjman said:


>


That's always been my motto.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, car isn't back yet, but I do have a few pics that were sent to me that I figured some of you were looking forward to seeing... how in the world are you going to fit 2 15's in the trunk....?

this is how:















*quick ocd note... i hate how the carbon vinyl looks blue in the pictures*


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Dang that's sweet!


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Very nice looking sub baffle. 

Are you still removing the horns or did you decide to keep them?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

bigbubba said:


> Very nice looking sub baffle.
> 
> Are you still removing the horns or did you decide to keep them?


i was just removing them to make room for cutting the kick panel. they are still very much part of the install


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Coming along nicely there Matt!

SBP15's or IB15A's...?


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

very cool.

but you didnt eclipse me - because i have 18's now


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## crx4luke (Aug 9, 2008)

How thick is that baffle? It looks like maybe 1.5" or so? Looks good so far.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> Coming along nicely there Matt!
> 
> SBP15's or IB15A's...?


Thanks bud.. slow and steady wins the race right?!

Sbp15s. 8ohms each so I could have a bridged 4 ohm load on two channels


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

req said:


> very cool.
> 
> but you didnt eclipse me - because i have 18's now


I'm sorry sir but do you have 12"midbasses?  I think you've been eclipsed 



crx4luke said:


> How thick is that baffle? It looks like maybe 1.5" or so? Looks good so far.


2" and change... seems thick and I'm told its nice and sturdy.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

So tonight I'm picking up a big evap cooler for the garage so I can finish out the install in comfort. We are in triple digits from here on out for the summer and if I want to get anything done ill need a cool workspace to be in. 

Tomorrow ill pick up the car, asses the situation, and start to tackle the rest of the install... kickpanels for the horns and mids being first up on the list. Stay tuned...


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

damn. 

you got me! if i could give you a hand you know that i would 

cant wait to see what happens next!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> Thanks bud.. slow and steady wins the race right?!
> 
> Sbp15s. 8ohms each so I could have a bridged 4 ohm load on two channels


Very nice! I have an SBP15 sitting here new in the box as well


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> Very nice! I have an SBP15 sitting here new in the box as well


i hear they are the bees knees...  

i've never heard them though, let alone an IB setup before, so I'm keeping an open mind. I just hoping they will keep up with the horn stage and not run out of steam too quick.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> i hear they are the bees knees...
> 
> i've never heard them though, let alone an IB setup before, so I'm keeping an open mind. I just hoping they will keep up with the horn stage and not run out of steam too quick.


Something tells me they will do quite well for you


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

more pictures sent my way... i'm undecided on how i feel about the look of the grills right now... they are not at all what I expected. 

from this:



to this:


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Definitely not a factory look. IDK. Depends on what you are going for. I personally like the "stealth" approach, so I would have done something where a cutout was done in grill cloth, or maybe most of it. 

What did you discuss with the installer? What did you have in mind?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'll comment more when i get the car back tomorrow...

the more i look at it... the thing that gets me (well, one of them), is the port openings on the panel. they are 4" port openings on the enclosure, with a roundover, and unless my eyes are going crazy, the openings in the panel aren't 4" , maybe that's just me though??

wouldn't making the panel opening smaller than the port opening cause an issue with port tuning, turbulence, etc.?


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

If you were really compressing the air traveling through the 4" port... but those look to be ported for midbass, so I'd be shocked if the cross-section of the port was anywhere close to where any compression could take place. The excursion of the driver isn't sufficient for that. Also, the back of the panel seems to be some distance in front of the front of the port, yes? 

Those pics I see seem to be of well-done work.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I think they looks great, but definitely not stock-looking. Maybe wrap the mesh in grill cloth would help?

Jay


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

They look "ok" to me. Don't get me wrong...They appear to be well constructed and clean, but not the look I would want personally. I think the easiest way to make them better is to expand on what Jay said. I'd have a grill frame go around the borders of that structure and wrapped in dark grill cloth so it covers up the driver and port and makes the whole thing blend in more so you dont see the driver. They only look odd because you can see that massive driver still. Get that taken care of and I'll bet you will be much more happy with it.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I like the panel that surrounds the sub, blends in well, but haven't made my mind up on the speaker grill. Don't get me wrong it looks be be very nicely done but the grill could use some grill cloth over it, maybe. 

The area in front of the port seems to be off center of the opening. It may just be the angle of the picture though. Interested to see more pics and your thoughts when you get it back.


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## jayhawkblk (May 29, 2007)

I think they are built well. If you want a bit more steath. Make a trim ring that goes around the perimeter of the panel and cut a piece of mesh to fit and wrap in grill cloth.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

they look well done, but don't resemble anything what I thought you were going after. I had the impression you were going to build that side panel such that the speakers would be hidden.

Even so, with these I would have at least covered the grill with grill cloth so the speaker was so apparent. it stands out quite a bit as it is.

As for the port 'grille', maybe it's the camera angle but not only do they look smaller than your port but they don't even look like they line up correctly. i.e. not centered over the port.


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## mrmill (Feb 11, 2013)

the panels look pretty neat to me, the only thing like a few of the other said, is grill cloth over the grill so you're not staring at them.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

It kind of looks like the whole front is a kind of beauty panel that was wrapped in vinyl and the grill press fits into. If thats the case, maybe just remove it and wrap it in one continuous piece of grill cloth (including overtop of the speaker grill). It would probably totally blend in then.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Drive over to Keystonbros in central Phoenix. They stock black grill tex grill cloth. If that doesn't match or work for you they have other colors that they stock in their larger wharehouses in Cali. It can be here in a day or two.


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## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, my $.02...
I'll echo the comments above regarding covering the speaker and port with grill cloth... but the thing that gets me, are the angles. Where did the installer get the top and (especially) the front angles from? Do they compliment other lines in the interior? It looks rather out-of-wack to me. Maybe it's the camera angle, and maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be happy with that at all, from an aesthetic point of view.
This is simply _my opinion_, so please don't take offense... :blush:

Sub baffle looks great!



mattyjman said:


> i hear they are the bees knees...
> 
> i've never heard them though, let alone an IB setup before, so I'm keeping an open mind. I just hoping they will keep up with the horn stage and not run out of steam too quick.


I've only heard the IB15's IB, but they sounded awesome. Best I've ever heard sub-wise. Sooo clean...

Two of them should have an efficiency of around 96dB, so they should keep up just fine...


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

EditTim said:


> Well, my $.02...
> I'll echo the comments above regarding covering the speaker and port with grill cloth... but the thing that gets me, are the angles. Where did the installer get the top and (especially) the front angles from? Do they compliment other lines in the interior? It looks rather out-of-wack to me. Maybe it's the camera angle, and maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be happy with that at all, from an aesthetic point of view.
> This is simply _my opinion_, so please don't take offense... :blush:
> 
> ...


Judging by the bare pics, it looks like he was using the bottom angle of the window for the angle. It's one of those things where once you see that it looks better and never looks as it did before you saw it LOL


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## EditTim (Mar 15, 2012)

GLN305 said:


> Judging by the bare pics, it looks like he was using the bottom angle of the window for the angle. It's one of those things where once you see that it looks better and never looks as it did before you saw it LOL


True, and I can tell it's the window that's the closest angle, but it still, from the pic anyway, looks like a steeper angle than that. It could, of course simply be the angle of the photo. The front vertical angle though? And the two together just aren't doing it for me. 

Edit: I do see how the front angle does match the seat angle, but it's still weird to me. I guess one could get used to it.

I'll shut up now... :blush:


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

GLN305 said:


> Judging by the bare pics, it looks like he was using the bottom angle of the window for the angle. It's one of those things where once you see that it looks better and never looks as it did before you saw it LOL


I think shape-wise the installer did a good job. The vehicle has some harder angles and I think he captured that well. What makes it stand out is the surface mounted rounded out grilles for the driver and port.

I got the impression that Matts idea for this was to make the panel hide the drivers so you wouldn't know they are there, utilizing a factory look. It appears the installer used more of a visual approach and made the drivers very visible.

Instead of cutting circular grilles and popping them in there, what the instaler should have done was make a cutout in his panel that compliments the anlges he made for the new piece, attach metal grill material to the backside of it and wrap in grill cloth. That would have been a much cleaner look that wouldn't draw your eye to the panels.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

EditTim said:


> True, and I can tell it's the window that's the closest angle, but it still, from the pic anyway, looks like a steeper angle than that. It could, of course simply be the angle of the photo. The front vertical angle though? And the two together just aren't doing it for me.
> 
> Edit: I do see how the front angle does match the seat angle, but it's still weird to me. I guess one could get used to it.
> 
> I'll shut up now... :blush:


Hehe, no need to shut up man, if the installer is a good as it looks that he is, he will like to get constructive input to better himself.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> I think shape-wise the installer did a good job. The vehicle has some harder angles and I think he captured that well. What makes it stand out is the surface mounted rounded out grilles for the driver and port.
> 
> I got the impression that Matts idea for this was to make the panel hide the drivers so you wouldn't know they are there, utilizing a factory look. It appears the installer used more of a visual approach and made the drivers very visible.
> 
> Instead of cutting circular grilles and popping them in there, what the instaler should have done was make a cutout in his panel that compliments the anlges he made for the new piece, attach metal grill material to the backside of it and wrap in grill cloth. That would have been a much cleaner look that wouldn't draw your eye to the panels.


I agree with the grille idea, wonder if maybe the budget isn't enough to make extra work like that happen. Either way, it kicks ass. Good to see someone going against the grain.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

So Matty...did you get the car back yet? What are your thoughts of it after laying your hands back on it?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, where to get started... 

before I get too detailed, I do want to throw a disclaimer up there... 

No matter what I say and what follows, I want it to be extremely clear that I think John and his crew does some solid work. This isn't to bad mouth him, his shop, his installers, or overall ability, but rather to continue to journal my experiences during this build. John has gotten my repeat business because of his attention to detail, pride, and overall great work, as well as business from referrals that I've brought to his door. I still champion him and his shop in the AZ area, as there are few shops (maybe one other that I can think of) that I would feel secure in referring my friends and family to. He is a stand up guy, and very proud of what he does. He and his shop exudes pride in what they do, and I wouldn't hesitate to go to him again if my needs were such that I would require him to do an entire build. 

I think the issues I've had are simply a clash of the DIY mentality and taking a half completed task to a professional who's used to doing an entire install top to bottom. 

This already sounds like a bigger deal than it is, but I don't anyone here to get the wrong idea about John (some of my earlier posts could have been misleading if you read into them too much.) 

the reason why I was vague and non committal to commenting was because I wanted to get the car back and inspect the job, and see how things looked in person. Case in point, the pictures of the midbass panels look way better in person than in the pictures provided to me. (we'll get into that more in a bit)...

So, I brought the car to John to finish out the install. What was left? Molding a speaker pod in the kick panels, creating a finished front in the plastics of the kick panels, midbass speaker grills, IB wall, finishing the trunk (side walls, floor, etc), fiberglassing the amp rack cover, and wiring the whole system up.

sounds like a lot, but after discussing the particulars, giving him some artistic freedom, and agreeing on a set of "non negotiables" that I required in the install, we settled on a price and set a date. He was extremely honest upfront that this entire quote could change based on the complexity of the install and possible issues that may arise with completing something that was already started by my (like the midbass pods). Barring issues, quoted time was about 7 days or so... 

2 days into the install, I got a call from John asking me to come down as he realized he severely underquoted the install. they had spent two days working on installing the amps, battery, and running wiring and getting that all buttoned up, and that there wasn't nearly enough time to finish out the install, especially after looking closer conceptually at the midbass pods and realizing he didn't have nearly as much room as he and I both thought (running into the operation of the seat). Same thing with the kickpanels and the tight fit of the horn and midrange in that area. 

discussing these challenges, it sounded like it would have taken another 3 days at least to figure them out. means more money right? we talked about what had been done already and what else could be done with minor difficulty, and we settled on a modified install, where the ib wall would be completed, wiring completed and amps set with oscope (which was essentially already completed, and the midbass pods completed. this also meant I could shave a day or two off of my original expense. 

and this is where I really started to regret taking the car over there. strictly from an ROI perspective, I thought our initially agreed upon quote was fair (taking into account already completed portions), but when the new quote was discussed, i was getting 1/2 the work completed for 3/4 of the price of our initial quote (I didn't get roped into doing this, I agreed). I had my heart set on the job being finished for "x" dollars, and then blam... it's gonna cost more. (not his fault, just what it is) 

In addition to this, the wiring was what was tackled first, whereas if anything was left to be undone at the end, I would have preferred that this was one of those areas. Since that took about two days to complete (he shaved some time off and it was a *****, since there was soo much wire and such a little space), it could have been two days working on more of the custom work that I really wanted him to do in the first place. too late however, as that was already done. 

so, I'm a bit disappointed that a lot of the custom stuff I wanted to be done, is still on my plate to be completed. Being a DIYer, I have control over what gets done when, and how it gets done. While giving up this control was tough for me, so was jumping in the middle of an ongoing install for John, and the challenge of continuing to carry out my vision of the completed project. In the end, this whole project that I left in John's hands was riddled with little problems that neither of us foresaw, and I think if we were looking back now, both of us would have approached this drastically different. It's no one's fault, and I don't blame him for how things got finished. In fact, I'm grateful that he stopped early on in the build and let me know honestly where things were at for him, before carrying on and just letting me know at the end that I wasn't paying enough to complete the job. But I can't say I'm completely satisfied either, because I'm still without music coming out of these 12" midbasses  

With all that being said, here are some of the pictures (hoping to get some better angles) showing how good his stuff really is, and what's left for the install.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

midbass pods:

I think the side profile shots show you that it's not as boxy as it seems, and if you look closely, it follows the bend of the panel as it goes towards the rear deck. While I may have done something differently, these are done well enough that if I did want to change them at some point, it would be my last priority on the install. 





the trunk:

all the metal racks were commissioned and built earlier, but this is now how it all looks currently before any flooring and side walls are built, as well as the amp tub. (ignore the thing wrapped in ccf on the left side closest to the wall, it's the factory amp providing me tunes until I can get this all up and running)








the IB wall

I told John I didn't want any hardware showing, and he did a great job of making a resonant free baffle, strong bolting points, but with nothing of the usual sort showing. 



shots from the front don't seem to do these subs justice, as they are freaking massive in the camaro (note the tight tolerance between the seat and the midbass pods - somehow I screwed up and built the baffle out just a smidge too deep so that that panels interfere with the seat fold down operation (only slightly though))


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## SteveH! (Nov 7, 2005)

THIS IS LOOKIN 
GOOD!!!!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

As an installer, I have to say I would have started with the wiring also. That way it's all run into the back before I built the IB wall. It's SOOOO much more work to build something like that (with the tolerances required) and then take it back out to run wiring and HOPE you left enough space somewhere to get all of that wiring through. If you hadn't already spray foamed all the openings, it might not have been so bad. 

The DIY/ROI feeling is true (it's what got me started in this business...I didn't think it was worth $60 to have someone cut the dash in my '70 bug to fit a din radio...) And because you CAN do stuff like this, it makes it harder for you to justify paying for it. But Jon does have a business to run and people to pay and I'd bet his price was still more than fair. 

I have to say, this last batch of pics makes the midbass grills look MUCH better, although the different materials seem to clash for me when the seat is down. 

I'll be curious to see how the CF vinyl on the amps holds up. It looks awesome.

Car is coming along, and looks great. Looking forward to more progress....before you buy an Accord and put a system in that too. LOL

Jay


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

lookin good man. i really hope it sounds awesome.

i sent you back a PM about those graphics. let me know - i am almost certain i have orange


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Looks very good. 

Not sure if you ever ended up considering the use of grill cloth or not. With the way the back seat rubs against the grill it probably would not be a good idea to wrap them in grill cloth. Mostly for the fear of tearing the grill cloth as it gets stretched and pulled by the seat. With black grill cloth you could glue it to the metal grill and this might help avoid stretching and tearing it.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> midbass pods:


I have a question about the grill covering the midbass. Looking at this pic, is the grill the first layer and the mounting surface of the speaker the second layer or is all of that the grill? 

The more I look at it the more I like the mounting baffle it's just the round grill that's throwing it off for me. Maybe there is a way to make a new grill that follows the lines of the baffle more and maybe use those ball and socket type of attachments, like those used on home stereo speaker grills? Just a thought.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> As an installer, I have to say I would have started with the wiring also. That way it's all run into the back before I built the IB wall. It's SOOOO much more work to build something like that (with the tolerances required) and then take it back out to run wiring and HOPE you left enough space somewhere to get all of that wiring through. If you hadn't already spray foamed all the openings, it might not have been so bad.
> 
> The DIY/ROI feeling is true (it's what got me started in this business...I didn't think it was worth $60 to have someone cut the dash in my '70 bug to fit a din radio...) And because you CAN do stuff like this, it makes it harder for you to justify paying for it. But Jon does have a business to run and people to pay and I'd bet his price was still more than fair.
> 
> ...


thanks Jay. Your comments about install order was interesting considering you are an installer as well. Puts a good perspective on it. However, the only wiring that needed to be run was a usb cable, 6 speaker wires (3 per side) and that's it. I could understand running rca's, 1/0 gauge power and ground, etc... and that being a priority, but when 9/10's of the wiring is already in the back... well, it doesn't matter, but I would have been just fine tackling that rather than paying 2 days to do it. 

I totally get the prices vs roi thing... I never complained about them not being fair, nor did I ask for concessions. I have a ton of respect for small business owners (that are honest and have integrity, of course) as I hope to be one soon. 


Different materials? Are you referencing the vinyl vs the plastic... this is a contrast that is made with the flash but looks matched to the naked eye. 

Thanks for the props, I'm hoping to get this thing up and banging soon. It can't come soon enough, at least.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

SteveH! said:


> THIS IS LOOKIN
> GOOD!!!!





req said:


> lookin good man. i really hope it sounds awesome.
> 
> i sent you back a PM about those graphics. let me know - i am almost certain i have orange





07azhhr said:


> Looks very good.
> 
> Not sure if you ever ended up considering the use of grill cloth or not. With the way the back seat rubs against the grill it probably would not be a good idea to wrap them in grill cloth. Mostly for the fear of tearing the grill cloth as it gets stretched and pulled by the seat. With black grill cloth you could glue it to the metal grill and this might help avoid stretching and tearing it.


Thanks Guys! If I ever reworked the panels, I would go for a full factory integration look, similar to what captainobvious mentioned earlier, with the grill, grill cloth, and speaker, all behind the panel. I surmise that gluing the cloth to the grill would work... I certainly won't be using the back seat fold down option often, if at all. I only wanted it operational in the event that I want to show the baffle... (i suppose I could go seatless if I really wanted to go crazy. no one will ever sit back there anyway. there is literally less room in this back seat area than the bmw I had.) hey... now there is an idea....


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

bigbubba said:


> I have a question about the grill covering the midbass. Looking at this pic, is the grill the first layer and the mounting surface of the speaker the second layer or is all of that the grill?
> 
> The more I look at it the more I like the mounting baffle it's just the round grill that's throwing it off for me. Maybe there is a way to make a new grill that follows the lines of the baffle more and maybe use those ball and socket type of attachments, like those used on home stereo speaker grills? Just a thought.


the split seam you see in the grill is the two part grill. the top part is the actual grill. the second part is a ring that surrounds the speaker itself, and is how the panel is secured to the midbass pod.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

How does the grill attach to the spacer?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> How does the grill attach to the spacer?


john used some neo's and a few dowels to help with the alignment.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

god, why do i do this... i get these silly ideas in my head and then i can't shake them...


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> god, why do i do this... i get these silly ideas in my head and then i can't shake them...


Because you love it....what idea?...the no back seat thing?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ yes on both accounts i suppose. 

i think it would solve a lot of issues that i'll have to deal with in finishing the install in the trunk. i could detail them now, but i'll save that for later. 

a couple of things appeal to me on this... 

-- weight goes in between the wheels, not past the rear like it is now. 

-- allows me to finish the midbass pods the way i think they should be

-- having no rear seat in the way of the subs could improve clarity and impact

-- i'll have more cooling options for the amps if it's needed

-- and it'll put me in territory I haven't been in before, plus i really don't need a back seat area where people aren't going to sit

-- and it will open up utility options in the trunk that I'd be otherwise making compromises on. 

now, the major "con"... i've sunk a ton of money and time in the trunk. this would negate almost all of that.


i'm going to give this some serious consideration...


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> the split seam you see in the grill is the two part grill. the top part is the actual grill. the second part is a ring that surrounds the speaker itself, and is how the panel is secured to the midbass pod.


Looking back at the pics I thought this might be the case. 

What I do not understand about this is that you already had the speaker mounted to the pods so the panel should have been made to flush the speaker then just the grill ring would have been needed. This would allow the rear seat to fold down without hitting the grills at all. Heck he could have gone one step further and made the trim panel a little thicker so that the grill could have been flushed into the actual panel as one flat piece.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I'd keep the seat and work from the trunk. Weight-wise, you're not too bad. Performance of the vehicle will be very minimally affected. Not to mention you've already got some very nice work happening in the trunk


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

captainobvious said:


> I'd keep the seat and work from the trunk. Weight-wise, you're not too bad. Performance of the vehicle will be very minimally affected. Not to mention you've already got some very nice work happening in the trunk


I agree with this. As you mentioned, you have already put a ton of time and money into this to start over now, my personal opinion. To start re-thinking it now, you will never get to hear it. 

That's easy for me to say though. I have been trying to start the rebuild in my car for the last 9 months and keep changing my mind on what I was going to use and how it was to look. I'm just now starting to make some progress.

Hope to see more pics on your progress soon!


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

we usually start with the basics, wire, speaker install, etc, then move on to the custom stuff


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

D-Bass said:


> we usually start with the basics, wire, speaker install, etc, then move on to the custom stuff


I suppose it's industry standard then... thanks for the feedback.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> I'd keep the seat and work from the trunk. Weight-wise, you're not too bad. Performance of the vehicle will be very minimally affected. Not to mention you've already got some very nice work happening in the trunk





bigbubba said:


> I agree with this. As you mentioned, you have already put a ton of time and money into this to start over now, my personal opinion. To start re-thinking it now, you will never get to hear it.
> 
> That's easy for me to say though. I have been trying to start the rebuild in my car for the last 9 months and keep changing my mind on what I was going to use and how it was to look. I'm just now starting to make some progress.
> 
> Hope to see more pics on your progress soon!


weight thing aside, that's not even really a selling point... maybe just a little bit, but not much. 

the more I look at the trunk and what I wanted vs how it will actually finish out... i'm liking the outcome less and less. the rack never came out the way I was hoping (flush with the floor), and the two side racks come out too much in order to make the side panels "blend" as I intended. I can make it all factory'ish' but with the sides, they will come out (toward the center of the trunk) more than I want and it will collapse the whole space availability of the trunk. 

not to mention that because the rack isn't flush with the floor, i need to find a way to figure in how to make this utilitarian still... I do get groceries in this. 

The alternative is putting this all in the backseat. 

So the trunk transforms back to what it looked like originally, but with only one small difference, the IB wall. 

With a rear seat delete, I can do something maybe a bit more artistic with the amps, wiring, processor, etc, and not have it all "squished" together as it is in the trunk. 

I will never use the rear seat. Not even for groceries, as it's more of a pain to put them in the back than the trunk or the passenger side. It's literally a waste of space. 

like i said, i get an idea and i can't get it out of my head. 

and the story goes on and on and on... (at least it's not another car  )


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Hey Matt, have you thought about getting a new car and starting over....J/K!!!!

I hope this build works out for you....G/L!!!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> weight thing aside, that's not even really a selling point... maybe just a little bit, but not much.
> 
> the more I look at the trunk and what I wanted vs how it will actually finish out... i'm liking the outcome less and less. the rack never came out the way I was hoping (flush with the floor), and the two side racks come out too much in order to make the side panels "blend" as I intended. I can make it all factory'ish' but with the sides, they will come out (toward the center of the trunk) more than I want and it will collapse the whole space availability of the trunk.
> 
> ...


 
I didn't realize that the trunk progress wasn't to your liking. In that case (and because you're never going to use the back seat), go for the seat delete and capitalize on unusable space for the install while leaving plenty of trunk room for utility


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

captainobvious said:


> I didn't realize that the trunk progress wasn't to your liking. In that case (and because you're never going to use the back seat), go for the seat delete and capitalize on unusable space for the install while leaving plenty of trunk room for utility


yeah, i wish i was awesome with photoshop, then i could show you how the trunk would look when finished.... but alas... I'm definitely not an artiste


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## moparman79 (Jan 31, 2008)

I would keep the back seat and redo the amp layout in the trunk. I would build a false floor
to house the amps, and processor.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

I think getting rid of the back seat that is useless to you anyway is a great idea. I can picture a sick looking amp rack where the seat was.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

07azhhr said:


> Looking back at the pics I thought this might be the case.
> 
> What I do not understand about this is that you already had the speaker mounted to the pods so the panel should have been made to flush the speaker then just the grill ring would have been needed. This would allow the rear seat to fold down without hitting the grills at all. Heck he could have gone one step further and made the trim panel a little thicker so that the grill could have been flushed into the actual panel as one flat piece.


07azhhr, the reason why we could not do it that way, as that was the original plan, was because the alignment of the speaker with the rest of the panel was so drastic that, trying to make the the ring that flushes the speaker one with the panel would have limited the main panels flexibility too much to be able to bend to the shape it needed to be. The first panel goes in and, until the first ring is mounted into place, it sticks out a good 4-5 inches from the factory plastic. Now THAT, would have looked bad! So the first ring goes on and pulls the panel to flush with the odd angle on the enclosures. The second ring goes on over the grille and the first ring. It is very easy, and common, to look at something and say "well, it could have been done this way" but as you well know, what things look like from far away are quite a bit different than what they are up close and plans have to change. Believe me man, I wanted to build that ring into the panel.



JayinMI said:


> As an installer, I have to say I would have started with the wiring also. That way it's all run into the back before I built the IB wall. It's SOOOO much more work to build something like that (with the tolerances required) and then take it back out to run wiring and HOPE you left enough space somewhere to get all of that wiring through. If you hadn't already spray foamed all the openings, it might not have been so bad.
> 
> The DIY/ROI feeling is true (it's what got me started in this business...I didn't think it was worth $60 to have someone cut the dash in my '70 bug to fit a din radio...) And because you CAN do stuff like this, it makes it harder for you to justify paying for it. But Jon does have a business to run and people to pay and I'd bet his price was still more than fair.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comments Jay. I feel that justifying the time to wire something up is always the hardest because you can't really do build pics of wiring to show! However, to Matt and everybody else here, it is 100% industry standard to do things this way and I apologize if I didn't explain our gameplan enough to you Matt. Think about it like building a custom dash. If you got it all glassed up and wrapped/painted whatever and then tried to go back and figure our a mounting solution, it wouldn't work well right? Or what if, as in this scenario, you got everything all situated and panels built only to find that the wiring required that the component be mounted a different way? You'd be totally screwed! I learned very early on in my career as a fabricator that you always get the foundation done before you start putting up walls.



mattyjman said:


> ok, where to get started...
> 
> before I get too detailed, I do want to throw a disclaimer up there...
> 
> ...


Matt, I really appreciate you clarifying this for everybody and I appreciate your kind words about my business and I. It was certainly a difficult situation that I hated being in and I still feel a little weird about it because I simply cannot stand the idea of having somebody out there who paid for our services and it not 100% about it. Still, thank you for your understanding and I am glad we could shake hands at the end of it.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, I can finally get some traction on the kickpanel install. i'm SOOOOOO ready to get these installed so I can get some tunes. Hopefully this weekend I can do just that!!

Here's my new present to myself:









as you can see.. mounting diameter is just a shy larger, and the speaker is about .5" deeper... but I can see an 8" being more helpful than a 6.5" in the current situation. I've been concerned about how bad the midbasses are going to pull the stage back, so shoehorning an 8" driver that can play a bit lower should do just the trick  

of course, that's theory... we'll see when I get it all powered up this weekend (fingers crossed).


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

....


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

So you're going to have 12" midbasses behind you and 8" midbasses in front?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

it's a midrange. BMS 8S215

It'll play down to about 150 if I need it to (I wont) and it has a bit more xmax, and cone area... the audax probably shouldn't go much lower than 300 or so... 

and I suspect that with the midbasses so close that I'll the need the fronts to go lower than 300 in order to anchor the stage. I could be wrong, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. overall, it simply gives me a bit more tuning flexibility, and it's a solid midrange... sounds like a win in my book.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> it's a midrange. BMS 8S215
> 
> It'll play down to about 150 if I need it to (I wont) and it has a bit more xmax, and cone area... the audax probably shouldn't go much lower than 300 or so...
> 
> and I suspect that with the midbasses so close that I'll the need the fronts to go lower than 300 in order to anchor the stage. I could be wrong, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. overall, it simply gives me a bit more tuning flexibility, and it's a solid midrange... sounds like a win in my book.


Gotcha. I'm curious as to what the 12s are going to do to your imaging. I hope it works out


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

handcrafted said:


> 07azhhr, the reason why we could not do it that way, as that was the original plan, was because the alignment of the speaker with the rest of the panel was so drastic that, trying to make the the ring that flushes the speaker one with the panel would have limited the main panels flexibility too much to be able to bend to the shape it needed to be. The first panel goes in and, until the first ring is mounted into place, it sticks out a good 4-5 inches from the factory plastic. Now THAT, would have looked bad! So the first ring goes on and pulls the panel to flush with the odd angle on the enclosures. The second ring goes on over the grille and the first ring. It is very easy, and common, to look at something and say "well, it could have been done this way" but as you well know, what things look like from far away are quite a bit different than what they are up close and plans have to change. Believe me man, I wanted to build that ring into the panel.


I can understand that Jon. And you are right in saying it is easy to look from behind a screen and think one thing but have the reality be completely different.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Those look awesome! I guess just getting really smooth transitions between the drivers and having spot on time alignment should keep the stage up on the dash. I do wish I could hear a setup like this!


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Any updates?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ariko81 (Dec 15, 2008)

Update?


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Ryan, I think your car might get done first! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

He scrapped the install and bought a new car....J/K


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

hey guys, no updates as of yet. i've decided to put my house on the market, so i've been busy getting that taken care of. unfortunately I'm still listening to factory tunies.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

No sweat Matt, life sometimes gets in the way and slows us down  We're in very similar situations. My wife and I have been talking about making a move as well and progress has been much slower on the install than I'd like. At least until just recently when I've been able to make some progress on the kicks.

Best of luck to you in your home search (and sale) my friend !


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Just checking in my friend. Any progress made on the install? I saw the latest Simplicity In Sound install with 12" JBL midbasses on the rear deck and it reminded me of your build. How goes the house search? Hope all is well.

-Steve


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Any up dates? Still listening to factory tunes?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Well... where do I start? I've been completely slammed at work, and with selling the house, moving, etc... I've had no time to make forward progress on the car. I do have audio running, and have been using the subs for quite some time now, but never got the front stage in. I tried using the jbl mids in conjunction with the factory fronts and the AE subs, but they just didn't blend right.. probably the efficiency match up, along with my very limited tuning time. 

The subs are very nice, authoritative, and have the ability to blend in very well... Although I seriously doubt their ability to hang with the output levels that I would have needed them to do with the HLCD front stage. I was iffy on that from the start, but wanted to give them a go anyhow. For a regular traditional setup, I think they'd do just fine for the needs of most people, so I wasn't dissatisfied by any means. Transients are good, they are quick, and play well up into the upper register. 


So now that the house is sold, I'm moved, my work moved, turned 30, and every other crazy part of my life, things are starting to return to normal. I would be getting started on finishing this baby, but I'm scrapping it for a much better opportunity. 

I'm going to be starting a consulting business and now I finally understand what my parents have been trying to teach me when I was a kid about debt. It literally keeps you tied down. A lot of my monthly cashflow is tied up in the camaro, and while I make good money, it all goes somewhere. So my efforts as of late has been attempting to reduce expenses, increase cashflow, and pay off debts. The car is next. I'll be tearing it all out, returning to stock and selling private party, in return for a car that is completely paid for. No car payment = more money for the business. I'll also save money on insurance, and gas 

I'm disappointed that I won't be able to finish this project, but I look forward to building something entirely different. Probably not the update most of you wanted to see, and I'm sure some of you will scoff about how often I go through cars, but for all of you that provided support during this build, thank you.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

i hear you man. I am 31 and, as you start to settle into your career, you realize just how much money you can sink into these non-necesities. It is fine when you are younger and convinced you will be in your twenties forever. Achieving financial independence and saving for retirement starts to become a priority as you realize that, sadly, money and time are not unlimited. It sounds to me that you are making some wise decisions, whether they are glamorous or exciting doesn't much matter. That's not to say you can't have your hobbies, you just have to place realistic limits on them (temporal or monetary).


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

You're taking the responsible route- congratulations 

You'll get there with a different car at some point, no worries. Looking forward to see what you come up with next.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks Trevor and Captain...

Found a car actually... picking up a 2001 Lexus IS300. It's got 140000 miles on it but still running nice and clean, very well taken care of. Best part... paid for in CASH. No more payments once the Camaro is sold.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> Thanks Trevor and Captain...
> 
> Found a car actually... picking up a 2001 Lexus IS300. It's got 140000 miles on it but still running nice and clean, very well taken care of. Best part... paid for in CASH. No more payments once the Camaro is sold.


Gotta love that part! 

Any audio plans for the new car?


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Congrats on the big steps you're taking in life! Starting your own business is HUGE, I would know  Good luck with everything Matt! We hope you remain a regular on here and do a build on your new Lexus.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

trojan fan said:


> He scrapped the install and bought a new car....J/K


This ended up being true! Lol


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

mattyjman said:


> Thanks Trevor and Captain...
> 
> Found a car actually... picking up a 2001 Lexus IS300. It's got 140000 miles on it but still running nice and clean, very well taken care of. Best part... paid for in CASH. No more payments once the Camaro is sold.


Hey man nothing wrong with making the wiser (not popular) choice. It's crazy because your thread was the one that made me want a 1LE. Hell I even put a deposit one and was waiting to take delivery. Guess what happened in the mean time... I got laid off. Not all bad though because a month later I found employment with a National Transportation Company and I have more stability than ever. I decided to hold onto my TL-S (which has 111k miles) and even did some upgrades. Although that 1LE is a beast and easy on the eyes, I'd rather have the greenbacks in my pocket. You made the right choice, and good luck bro .


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks Blue... the 1LE always got lots of looks and compliments. I love driving her and it always makes me smile. But it's stupid to have such an expensive monthly commitment unless you can really afford it. More money, more problems... people never really make more, they just spend more so their disposable income stays the same. 

I'm really hoping I can make this IS fun for me, enough so I don't have any "wishes" after a few months of something more expensive and fun. 

Now, how am I going to fit all the stuff from my camaro into the IS300.. that's the question.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> Thanks Blue... the 1LE always got lots of looks and compliments. I love driving her and it always makes me smile. But it's stupid to have such an expensive monthly commitment unless you can really afford it. More money, more problems... people never really make more, they just spend more so their disposable income stays the same.
> 
> I'm really hoping I can make this IS fun for me, enough so I don't have any "wishes" after a few months of something more expensive and fun.
> 
> Now, how am I going to fit all the stuff from my camaro into the IS300.. that's the question.



Well one silver lining is that the IS should come much quiter from the factory and require little (or at least less) dampening treatment. 
And you've got a good sized trunk for IB...lots of options.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

it's actually noisier than i thought... 

rear seats don't fold down, so it may not be a good fit for the two IB 15's I have. Plenty of room in the spare tire well though


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Haha, I can just picture the face of the Camaro's next owner if they ever pull off the rear 1/4 trim panels :laugh:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

mattyjman said:


> it's actually noisier than i thought...
> 
> rear seats don't fold down, so it may not be a good fit for the two IB 15's I have. Plenty of room in the spare tire well though




Subs in the front floorboard...."you can do it!"....LOL!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> thanks Jay. Your comments about install order was interesting considering you are an installer as well. Puts a good perspective on it. However, the only wiring that needed to be run was a usb cable, 6 speaker wires (3 per side) and that's it. I could understand running rca's, 1/0 gauge power and ground, etc... and that being a priority, but when 9/10's of the wiring is already in the back... well, it doesn't matter, but I would have been just fine tackling that rather than paying 2 days to do it.


Not to drudge up old ****... but I have to say, I'm slightly embarrassed about how much of a little ***** I was being about the wiring. Yesterday was my first opportunity to start tearing into things and pulling stuff out. What looked really simple from a wiring perspective... well... this is what was left after I removed the amps, battery, and bitone... It took me a solid 3 hours just to pull everything out. 







And here is how it looked after it was done by Jon...







All I can say is I have a lot more respect for what was done now, and I wish I could take back all the trash talk. It's not like I left Jon and his crew with the easiest of tasks.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Yo Matt, doing anything to the Lexus? Are you still demo'ing the install on the Camaro or is it done and gone?


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey Matt, thank you for taking the time to post this, I really appreciate it. It's not always easy to clearly communicate why something took as long as it did, but in working on it. I learned a valuable lesson from this experience which will help to guide me through similar ones. Good luck in your business venture and let me know if you need us to do anything for you in the future! Happy thanksgiving everybody, go get fat!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Got any more questions about what can and can't be done in an IS300, let me know.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Golden Ear said:


> Yo Matt, doing anything to the Lexus? Are you still demo'ing the install on the Camaro or is it done and gone?


Still working on the camaro... quite a bit of work to get it back to stock... biggest pain will be tomorrow and cutting out the midbass pods. They stick out just enough so the panels won't sit flush  time to break out the sawzall  


As for the Lexus, I took care of some initial stuff to make the car livable for the most part. New shocks, lowering springs, rims from an IS250, bushings, brakes, and some exterior pieces (front lip, rear spoiler), and tint. 

Most of that stuff was necessity based on mileage... and I added a few discretionary items. 

The tint guy did something to my stereo though... too much window spray got into the interior and hit the factory amp and fried it... the HU works, pulled both fuses to replace and it's fine. So, for now and for the foreseeable future, I'm riding tuneless. And that's the price you pay when you are saving everything you can to capitalize your business  I'm ok with that. 

In the future, I've talked to Jon about redoing the rear deck, adding space for my 15's. Horns and 8's should go up front without too much work, amps in the spare tire well, and an IPAD Mini should be a great fit where the factory HU is. I'm hoping I can get to that at some time within the next year.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

handcrafted said:


> Hey Matt, thank you for taking the time to post this, I really appreciate it. It's not always easy to clearly communicate why something took as long as it did, but in working on it. I learned a valuable lesson from this experience which will help to guide me through similar ones. Good luck in your business venture and let me know if you need us to do anything for you in the future! Happy thanksgiving everybody, go get fat!


No problem Jon... I was awestruck more than anything. The whole time pulling this out I kept thinking "man, I can't believe I complained about this...". I'll definitely let you know when I'm planning on completing the work we discussed. 



thehatedguy said:


> Got any more questions about what can and can't be done in an IS300, let me know.


Thanks bud, will do.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright folks... officially wrapping up this thread. Got everything out, stock plastics back in. Took almost a full day to just get the midbass pods torn out. Whoever said that cabosil/sand would be something that eats up blades was right... I went through a number of blades today. 

Here's the aftermath:
Where'd it all go??  
 

(this is just one)




I do have to add... I just went out on a drive after finishing... it's like I just gained 50 hp. Totally different beast now, without all the weight in it


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

good luck in the future, please post the lexus loved the posts on the camaro,wish you were able to finish it.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

Damn, all pics are gone =[


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## AndrewDicharia (May 5, 2012)

ya i was wanting to look at all the pics as well :/


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

Matt, I have a Pontiac G8, and they share a base chassis w/ Camaro. Looking at your trunk, I've been considering doing the same thing (2 IB 15's) and my trunk up near the seat is identical to yours. Do you still have the IB board? Would you be willing to entertain an idea about getting rid of that?

Josh

Yes, I'm being a thread necromancer...


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

JoshHefnerX said:


> Matt, I have a Pontiac G8, and they share a base chassis w/ Camaro. Looking at your trunk, I've been considering doing the same thing (2 IB 15's) and my trunk up near the seat is identical to yours. Do you still have the IB board? Would you be willing to entertain an idea about getting rid of that?
> 
> Josh
> 
> Yes, I'm being a thread necromancer...


Matt doesn't come around much these days and he got rid of the Camaro. I just talked to him yesterday. I'll see if he still has the board and let you know.


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## BoomHz (Apr 20, 2007)

Has diymobileaudio been hacked, there's a dancing cat in all the rooms!??


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## RandomBeat (Aug 23, 2014)

I just read all 19 pages.... I want to cry.

Like a movie where u are so into it, and excited.... and the ending makes u wanna break sh#t....


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

RandomBeat said:


> I just read all 19 pages.... I want to cry.
> 
> Like a movie where u are so into it, and excited.... and the ending makes u wanna break sh#t....


i just did the same thing...seeing that pile of fiberglass on the floor in the end was painful.


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

Yeah, its really unfortunate how this build ended. But completely understandable. Gotta do the right thing.

Josh


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

mikey7182 said:


> Matt doesn't come around much these days and he got rid of the Camaro. I just talked to him yesterday. I'll see if he still has the board and let you know.


Thanks Mike, Not 100% sure it will fit, but it looks like a damn good candidate. I spent a lot of time on a previous build trying to get the shape of the trunk right and I think this is one of those things I'd rather have someone else do...

Josh


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

Funny thing about that Camaro as I was reading I was looking at the battery location, and the fact that he wanted to move it to the left side. That's exactly where the G8 battery is. Probably could have used a g8 battery tray to mount it.

Josh


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