# are "Toby" subs still available?



## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

Looking for a site/source for these subs, anybody have one..

And yes, i am that cheezy....


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Google toby.

They're still in biz.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

www.toby.com


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

thanks :doh:


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I lived in Tx FortWorth for over 10 years and I went to his shop once and it was very nice. Toby was very helpful and very nice. He showed me his sheriff and ranger enclosures and for 100watts they sound like 1000watts. If I could I would design the same box enclosure but for a Cerwin Vega Stroker, I would.

TRUST ME they are worth every penny. And the enclosures are very well built. One 10" subwoofer in the toby enclosure can take out THREE 12's in regular closed enclosure. And those three 12's can be 300watts each and played with a 1000watt amplifier compare to toby's box only fed 100watts.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

Have a look at the following link that contains info about the Toby 10" BP driver: http://www.toby.com/CarAudio/Sheriff Info.htm

The FR is quite interesting, with a peak at around 61 Hz or so, and it drops by 6dB @100 Hz and just below 50 Hz.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I asked toby to build me a box for a stroker 12" but he told me it took him years just to design the right speaker and enclosure. And it would take years to get the stroker just right. But am pretty sure it would be well worth it.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Brian Steele said:


> Have a look at the following link that contains info about the Toby 10" BP driver: http://www.toby.com/CarAudio/Sheriff Info.htm
> 
> The FR is quite interesting, with a peak at around 61 Hz or so, and it drops by 6dB @100 Hz and just below 50 Hz.


It sounds like that graph as well.

Great for rock, but that's about it.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Well I heard rap/hip hop when Toby let me hear them. Since he asked me what I like. And it was loud. If its peak at 50-60hz its pretty perfect for hip-hop/rap. SPL use 38hz or so just to be loud but bass note wise it sounds like ****. 50-60hz sound way better more tuned.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Back from the dead. I have had one for about 3 years and I think I will always have it. Despite what you may think, this thing sounds really amazing with rap and hip hop. I don't listen to that kind of music much, but when I do, it really slams. I have about 200 watts going to it currently and it puts my old w3's (2 of them) with 250 watts going to each to complete shame. It may not be the best choice for the SQ crowd, but as a "buy it and toss it in the trunk" setup, it can't be beat for the money IMO. Toby is a standup guy that delivers excellent customer service as well. Anyone living in the DFW area owes it to themselves to check out his shop and give these things a listen.

Check out the video of his new 15''. This thing is rediculous!

Toby Outlaw - First Production Toby 15"


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Holy ****, I can only imagine.

Nothing but good things to say about Toby.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

TrickyRicky said:


> Holy ****, I can only imagine.
> 
> Nothing but good things to say about Toby.


Glad there's another Toby supporter here. They aren't well known at all and that's part of what I like about it. That one 15'' is like no other single driver I have ever heard. If you didn't know any better you would say it was at least 2 15's on twice the power. Certainly not one of anything.


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## WOOFERNTWEETER (Aug 16, 2010)

got a 1985 astro van with 4 rangers in it... kinda slams for 8 10's


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## Resonant (Mar 20, 2011)

lol....


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

TrickyRicky said:


> I asked toby to build me a box for a stroker 12" but he told me it took him years just to design the right speaker and enclosure. And it would take years to get the stroker just right. But am pretty sure it would be well worth it.


He's not wrong-played around in BB6 for the last 20mins and can't get that mutha to model well....Anyone had his boxes apart? Output looks like a series tuned design-at least the few subs I've tried modeling have always given a pointier peak then the graphs on Toby site and series or parallel tuned giving an output curve akin to his..


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

The Baron Groog said:


> He's not wrong-played around in BB6 for the last 20mins and can't get that mutha to model well....Anyone had his boxes apart? Output looks like a series tuned design-at least the few subs I've tried modeling have always given a pointier peak then the graphs on Toby site and series or parallel tuned giving an output curve akin to his..


I've had my box apart several times but I'm not sure what you mean by paralell or series tuning. With the model I have (sheriff, single DVC 4 ohm 10'') the voice coils are not wired together. They are wired individually to the terminal cup to be powered by 2 channels off of your amp. I have mine wired in parallell right now though. (the reason for having the box apart).


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

the guy is bad ass

he fixed a CDT crossover for me for 5 cents hahah

he just charged me for the 1" of solder and parts


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

mires said:


> I've had my box apart several times but I'm not sure what you mean by paralell or series tuning.


Was there a vent leading from the rear chamber (behind the woofer) to the front chamber, or was the rear chamber totally sealed off?


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

blazeplacid said:


> the guy is bad ass
> 
> he fixed a CDT crossover for me for 5 cents hahah
> 
> he just charged me for the 1" of solder and parts


Yeah dude, they are all really cool like that. When I bought my Sheriff, the guy without even asking carried it out to my Jeep, chatted for a minute while I hooked it up and did a quick tune, and wanted to hear it. They like seeing a happy customers face. And all their cutomers are just that.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian Steele said:


> Was there a vent leading from the rear chamber (behind the woofer) to the front chamber, or was the rear chamber totally sealed off?


The rear chamber is completely sealed off and the sub is inverted. (Magnet in the vented side).


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

mires said:


> The rear chamber is completely sealed off and the sub is inverted. (Magnet in the vented side).


Thanks - sounds like a simple 4th order bandpass design, not a series-tuned bandpass design. The latter will have a vent connecting the front and rear chambers.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian Steele said:


> Thanks - sounds like a simple 4th order bandpass design, not a series-tuned bandpass design. The latter will have a vent connecting the front and rear chambers.


Hmm, never heard of such a thing. Sounds pretty involved lol. I looked over your site a bit and you certainly seem educated in different types of enclosures. Therefore, I have a question for you. How do you measure a hexagonal port?


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

mires said:


> Hmm, never heard of such a thing. Sounds pretty involved lol.


It's a bit more complicated than a simple 4th order bandpass, but you can get more low bass from the same woofer (if it's suitable for that type of system, of course). 




mires said:


> How do you measure a hexagonal port?


With a ruler . Seriously, what is it about the port that you want to measure?


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian Steele said:


> With a ruler . Seriously, what is it about the port that you want to measure?


Ha, should have expected that lol. I am wanting to know what the box is tuned to. I know the enclosure volume and the dimensions of the port but I assume the math is a little more involved than a typical round port.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

mires said:


> Ha, should have expected that lol. I am wanting to know what the box is tuned to. I know the enclosure volume and the dimensions of the port but I assume the math is a little more involved than a typical round port.


1. Calculate the cross-sectional area of the hexagonal vent
2. Calculate the equivalent diameter of a round vent with the same cross-sectional area.

Might be easier just to measure Fb by using test tones and a multimeter to determine the resonant frequency of the box. At resonance, the impedance should dip to a minimum.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian Steele said:


> 1. Calculate the cross-sectional area of the hexagonal vent
> 2. Calculate the equivalent diameter of a round vent with the same cross-sectional area.


For $5, would you do this for me? lol


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

mires said:


> The rear chamber is completely sealed off and the sub is inverted. (Magnet in the vented side).


What sub is it? I've not played with many BP designs, but have never got a 4th order to model with such a "flat peak" as that one-maybe just the subs I was modeling, just tried a couple more and nice wide plateau!


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

mires said:


> For $5, would you do this for me? lol


Give me the dimensions and I'll tell you!


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## Exo5168 (Dec 4, 2008)

I live in Fort Worth, used to have his stuff. It is LOUD and you just can't believe when he plays just 1 of his Sheriff's or Marshall's. It sounds great .... I might have to give him a call soon .....


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I cant wait to go to Ft Worth to check out that 15". I will be going in two months to visit my mother/family.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Exo5168 said:


> I live in Fort Worth, used to have his stuff. It is LOUD and you just can't believe when he plays just 1 of his Sheriff's or Marshall's. It sounds great .... I might have to give him a call soon .....


You really should. I love the "boutiqueness" of it if you will. I always have to explain where it is from and the idea behind the design when people ask me what kind of sub(s) I have. They're always realy surprised to hear how little power I have going to it also.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

mires said:


> Back from the dead. I have had one for about 3 years and I think I will always have it. Despite what you may think, this thing sounds really amazing with rap and hip hop. I don't listen to that kind of music much, but when I do, it really slams. I have about 200 watts going to it currently and it puts my old w3's (2 of them) with 250 watts going to each to complete shame. It may not be the best choice for the SQ crowd, but as a "buy it and toss it in the trunk" setup, it can't be beat for the money IMO. Toby is a standup guy that delivers excellent customer service as well. Anyone living in the DFW area owes it to themselves to check out his shop and give these things a listen.
> 
> Check out the video of his new 15''. This thing is rediculous!
> 
> Toby Outlaw - First Production Toby 15"


You guys should hear a tapped horn 

Looking at the response graph of the Toby, it appears that he's done a nice job of designing it so that it rolls off right as cabin gain kicks in. I think this is THE best way to do bandpass subs in the car. A lot of people tune them too low, and then you end up with one-note bass because cabin gain is accentuating 40hz too much.

I can't figure out why he'd bother with a hexagonal port though.

Geddes uses a "trick" in his bandpass subs, but I don't think that he's divulged the secret, and I've never seen anyone else who's revealed it. (And I'm not going to do it, since it seems to be a trade secret!)


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Patrick Bateman said:


> You guys should hear a tapped horn
> 
> Looking at the response graph of the Toby, it appears that he's done a nice job of designing it so that it rolls off right as cabin gain kicks in. I think this is THE best way to do bandpass subs in the car. A lot of people tune them too low, and then you end up with one-note bass because cabin gain is accentuating 40hz too much.
> 
> ...


Yeah it's definitely not a one-note wonder like a lot of bandpass designs. I love the musicality of it for what it is.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Geddes uses a "trick" in his bandpass subs, but I don't think that he's divulged the secret, and I've never seen anyone else who's revealed it. (And I'm not going to do it, since it seems to be a trade secret!)


Now you've got me intrigued .


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian Steele said:


> Now you've got me intrigued .


Haha, I googled the crap out of it too and couldn't come up with anything.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I believe he goes with a hex shape because he hasnt try making it into a tube thats made out of 5/8 or 3/4 thick MDF (which is possible by stacking rings with wood glue) then sand it down round the end and you got a tube port made out of MDF (which I think he will try to stick with instead of plastic or PVC which might viabrate or have some weird resonance.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

This is how HexiBase does his round ports for his hi-end audio enclosures (for home theather). He (hexi) explained why its better to use a wood tube rather than a pvc.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

TrickyRicky said:


> I believe he goes with a hex shape because he hasnt try making it into a tube thats made out of 5/8 or 3/4 thick MDF (which is possible by stacking rings with wood glue) then sand it down round the end and you got a tube port made out of MDF (which I think he will try to stick with instead of plastic or PVC which might viabrate or have some weird resonance.


Makes sense. I believe the older models he built used slot ports but I'm not certain about that. I like the hex design personally though.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I can't justify 600 bux for one 15.


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## Exo5168 (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm actually curious about running their 12" box in my new Camaro. Currently running a Probox (was supposed to be temporary ... but ... yah) wonder how it would run. I listen to rock and heavy metal mostly, not much of a basshead but ... wonder how "clean" it would sound.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Exo5168 said:


> I'm actually curious about running their 12" box in my new Camaro. Currently running a Probox (was supposed to be temporary ... but ... yah) wonder how it would run. I listen to rock and heavy metal mostly, not much of a basshead but ... wonder how "clean" it would sound.


I'm in Dallas and I heard a Toby sub at a soundoff and it was punchy, with no low end. It may have been his install, however.

Anyways, I think it would be perfect for rock.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

mires said:


> Haha, I googled the crap out of it too and couldn't come up with anything.


When I heard the Gedlee bandpass subs, I noticed that they basically sound like sealed boxes, but very verrrrrry clean. They don't sound like bandpass subs at all.

Geddes has a bunch of patents on bandpass subs; there are only four or five people who understand the design as well as he does.

I think that I figured out one of the undocumented "secrets" to the design. Here's a few hints:

_A lot of the time I find that vented boxes sound sluggish and "slow." It's like the bass is out-of-step with everything else. For a severe example of what I mean, go on youtube, and pull up videos of SPL boxes. The bass is thick and undefined.

*It is my belief that the cause of this is group delay.* All pipes resonate at one quarter wavelength, and this creates spikes in the frequency response. *The thing that's incredibly obnoxious about these spikes is that they're DELAYED IN TIME.* That's the key to why they make the box sound horrendous. If you're picking up on my clues in this post, you'll also realize that there is something VERY SPECIFIC about those SPL cars on Youtube which makes them particularly horrendous when it comes to group delay. (hint hint hint)

WinISD can't predict this. It's one of the reasons that I use Hornresp instead. You can see these "spikes" on the first page of this thread, in the measured frequency response that Brian posted:









_

Here is the "secret sauce:"

*If you wanted to eliminate or reduce the effect of these standing waves, how would you go about it?*

If you look at the Gedlee subs you'll get a few clues. It's easier to figure out if you've seen them in person. No one else in the world is doing this - it's one of those "you gotta hear it to believe it" things.

This improvement is also free - and you can use it with any kind of ported box. (Bandpass, vented, whatever....)

If you want to learn more about group delay, read this thread that I posted here: Audio Psychosis • View topic - [everything you never wanted to know about] Bandpass Boxes


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

His use of multiple small ports probably has something to do with it.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

The Baron Groog said:


> What sub is it? I've not played with many BP designs, but have never got a 4th order to model with such a "flat peak" as that one-maybe just the subs I was modeling, just tried a couple more and nice wide plateau!


The re10 models really well in a 4th order bp. Near flat from 22ish up to about 60hz. You do have to play around with the numbers though. The Tangband 6.5" models unbelievably well in a 6th order bp. Whether or not the end result will be even remotely close to the graph is anyones guess.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

The RE 10 does look good but the box would have to be huge for a 10 and the port displacement is crazy. I have thought about doing one ironically! LOL! It will also perform really well with about 100 watts on it.




Hillbilly SQ said:


> The re10 models really well in a 4th order bp. Near flat from 22ish up to about 60hz. You do have to play around with the numbers though. The Tangband 6.5" models unbelievably well in a 6th order bp. Whether or not the end result will be even remotely close to the graph is anyones guess.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

8675309 said:


> The RE 10 does look good but the box would have to be huge for a 10 and the port displacement is crazy. I have thought about doing one ironically! LOL! It will also perform really well with about 100 watts on it.


I'm considering building a 4th order for one of my re10's. I came up with like 1.5 plus port and then like .3 for the sealed chamber. What did you come out with? And how much port area are you coming up with?


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

How about multiple small ports randomly (or semi reandomly) spaced around the enclosure. By doing this you should distribute the nasty stored energy into several freq bands thus making it harder to hear.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That's what I said...and I think it is true.

Never modeled it though.



SSSnake said:


> How about multiple small ports randomly (or semi reandomly) spaced around the enclosure. By doing this you should distribute the nasty stored energy into several freq bands thus making it harder to hear.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

> That's what I said...and I think it is true.
> 
> Never modeled it though.


Agreed. I just thought that I would point out the variable locations and add some insights to why this is helpful... We all seem to have a thing for symmetry and with audio that is not necessarily a good thing.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

SSSnake said:


> How about multiple small ports randomly (or semi reandomly) spaced around the enclosure. By doing this you should distribute the nasty stored energy into several freq bands thus making it harder to hear.


Here's some more clues 

I hope someone tries this, because it's one of those free improvements you can make that makes a huge difference!










moar clues:


See those peaks in the response? Those are caused by standing waves. (See my forum for videos of how standing waves work.)
When a standing wave occurs, the sound at that frequency is delayed by a huge margin. *And note that those spikes occur at quite a high frequency!* So the sub is polluting the midbass.
This margin of delay is not subtle. I've seen delays of 25ms in the midbass. *That's like "moving" the midbass by 28 feet(!)*

And the last big clue: The frequency of the delay depends on the *length* of the port.

Anyone who's built a few vented boxes should realize a couple of things at this point. First, you'll realize why all this talk about SPL and SQ woofers is absurd. It's not the woofer that sounds different, it's the box. *And there is a very specific improvement that can be made to the box so that SPL boxes sound good.* It's the LENGTH of the port that dictates the frequency of the standing wave, and it's the DIAMETER of the port that dictates how big that peak is. *And this doesn't just affect bandpass boxes; it affects vented boxes too.* Once you grok that, you'll see there's a clever solution that reduces the severity of the peak and another trick that makes the group delay less audible. All of this can be modeled in hornresp, and if you tinker with the variables for a bit you'll see what the fix is. And once you hear it you won't believe it. This is seriously one of the biggest problems affecting the sound quality of subwoofers with a port.

Second, if you *really* want to take it to the next level, there is something you can do to the ports to practically make that group delay disappear entirely.

I'll leave it at that


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

John,

Any ideas why the Geddes double acoustic lever never made it into production in his sub units?

Also, I have a paper on hypersonic ports for reflex enclosures lying around somewhere. If I can find it I think it is a very interesting concept that GREATLY decreases group delay in a very different approach from the Geddes solution.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

SSSnake said:


> John,
> 
> Any ideas why the Geddes double acoustic lever never made it into production in his sub units?
> 
> Also, I have a paper on hypersonic ports for reflex enclosures lying around somewhere. If I can find it I think it is a very interesting concept that GREATLY decreases group delay in a very different approach from the Geddes solution.


He's mentioned that it requires some custom parts and that getting those parts made wasn't practical because you'd have to build a ton of them.

If you have the info on the hypersonic ports, would love to see it.

I haven't posted a lot of new projects lately. The reason for this is that I'm trying to get a good understanding of what sounds good, and what does not. Geddes had a quote on diyaudio which summed it up nicely. I wish I could find it; I'd hate to misquote it.

Basically, it was that you have to tackle diffraction, dynamics, and polar response.

In other words, all these people obsessing over the THD of their amplifiers or the flatness of their Dynaudio woofers are misguided.

The diffraction problem is particularly interesting, since we're seeing a lot of people on this forum getting good results with the spherical enclosures. Diffraction causes a phantom source *delayed in time.*

Subwoofer ports do the same thing though, and that phantom delay can occurr in the midbass or the midrange if we're not careful.

It's particularly insidious in the car because we tend to use a lot more power on the subs than we do at home, to drown out road noise. And this makes the audibility of the group delay worse, since the phantom signal is amplified along with the sub.

This probably explains why most people prefer the sound of passive radiators to ports.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

I've been looking for a softcopy. The hardcopy is in my other office (I think). It was an AES paper I can't seem to find it on their site... I'll see what I can do. 

The premise was to use very small boxes (too small for the port to fit completely inside the box) and use ports shaped like two rocket nozzles placed with the larger diameter on the outer ends. They necked down in the middle dramatically and caused a hypersonic flow in the small diamter of the port. This reduced the delay associated with port length and addressed turbulent flow inside the port itself by the gradual taper. It was very interesting stuff but the fabrication required made it less pratical for a DIY solution. I believe there was some concern about strength required to support the compressed/hypersonic flow in the port because they were using aluminum ports vice PVC or some other non-exotic port material.


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Exo5168 said:


> I'm actually curious about running their 12" box in my new Camaro. Currently running a Probox (was supposed to be temporary ... but ... yah) wonder how it would run. I listen to rock and heavy metal mostly, not much of a basshead but ... wonder how "clean" it would sound.


Definitely check them out. IMO, you'd probably be happy with the 10" (sheriff). That's what I have and I listen to rock about 90% of the time or better. Bands like Pantera, ministry, metallica, smashing pumpkins and System of a down just to give you an idea. It sounds really good with this type of music but also gets really low if you ask it to.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

When he did a demo for me (about 6 year plus ago) the sheriff and the ranger both kicked ass at 100watts. I had three 12" PMiller Bazookas and a 600watt Rockford amp (not sure what model, not sure if it was even 600watts, but it was atleast 600watts) and his one enclosure with 100watts was louder, and sounded better. I was suprise to see the actual driver because of its tiny magnet. 

I guess its more to it than just a big freaking magnet, lol. Thats exactly why I want to have the same enclosure built for a Cerwin Stroker (no matter what price I have to pay by that I mean space, because I can imagine how much would be needed).


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

Finally found the referenced document on the AES site... 

Vented-box Geometry and Low Frequency Reproduction: The Aerodynamical Approach

AES E-Library » Vented-box Geometry and Low Frequency Reproduction: The Aerodynamical Approach

I'll see if I can find my hardcopy and scan it in...


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

SSSnake said:


> Finally found the referenced document on the AES site...
> 
> Vented-box Geometry and Low Frequency Reproduction: The Aerodynamical Approach
> 
> ...


Pics or it didn't happen:


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Pics or it didn't happen:


No how to integrate these into my car...hmmm


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## MClovesDS (May 24, 2011)

I've Lived in the DFW my whole life and will buy no other than toby for bass. AND I LOVE BASS lol



bassfromspace said:


> I can't justify 600 bux for one 15.


Believe me, IF you heard it, you'd be blown. Probably most things you know about bass would be thrown out the window ( lol just playing about that part) but on the real part of thing, it is intense. 

When I first went to toby many years ago I was blown away by just his sheriff. so I bought one for my iroc (actually the camfire) when I was like 16. then by the time I was like 18 I had a ranger. that was long ago. and still remember how amazed I was with his simply boxes that blew everything out of the waters. I'd have one ten whop my friends bad azz twelves with 1000's of whats when I only had 200rms amp turned downed. 

BUT NOW THAT THEY MASTERED THEIR FIRST 15.....DAMN I'm getting one as soon as I clear my amex lol (me and my broke self) and I haven't had a system in years. 

$600 is ALOT for just one any ordinary 15 that people think need another to complement. If I NEVER went to toby, like most people on this forum, I think they were weak, and $600 for one 15 would really be ridiculous to me IF I never heard a toby bp. But since I visit them every chance I can and know exactly what these engineers and sound/speaker vets are capable of, I am just glad I live in an era where I can have my car with one 15 and live in serenity LOL. Bass is alot to me (not everything) but alot. and I think the outlaw is priced just right.

I see people spend more than that just for a sub, more than that for an amp and a speaker box with literally 1000's of watts just to get what and outlaw can do with little rms it requires. so $600 for a box + sub + engineering + amazing it comes with (thats personal opinion I guess lol) is well priced.

but an any sense, I am not trying to say what you said should damn you lol I don't know you or any of you all. I love bass, and toby has an immense amount of that in his boxes, and I wish I could borrow the beatles Magical Mystery Tour bus to pick all yaw guys up and take you all their just so you could at least experience it. Even if you don't like them in the end, I think everybody should have at least hear them once. (no **** about any of that LOL)

btw Beatles are legends and legends never die


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