# "Rebassing" Music... Even Worth the Hassle?



## WDPinit

I like a wide range of music and am usually satisfied with the bass found in EDM and rap. As we all know, it can definitely be lacking in country, rock and especially Mexican music. Whether it's lost in recording or just not there, I'd love a little bump where it's lacking. I've heard of the Epicenter and many say it's overpriced and just adds boomy bass. Apparently rebassing sounds better using online software? I tried out a couple of "rebassed" songs on YouTube and they all sound book and way overdone with the bass. Not sure if that's preference of the uploaders or what. If I get this software and learn it can I add some tight bass to lacking songs or will I always get overpowered boominess?


----------



## sqnut

WDPinit said:


> I like a wide range of music and am usually satisfied with the bass found in EDM and rap. As we all know, it can definitely be lacking in country, rock and especially Mexican music. Whether it's lost in recording or just not there, I'd love a little bump where it's lacking. I've heard of the Epicenter and many say it's overpriced and just adds boomy bass. Apparently rebassing sounds better using online software? I tried out a couple of "rebassed" songs on YouTube and they all sound book and way overdone with the bass. Not sure if that's preference of the uploaders or what. If I get this software and learn it can I add some tight bass to lacking songs or will I always get overpowered boominess?


You would be much better off getting a dsp and learning how to tune. The car is a natural bass engine between ~30-90hz, you don't need to add more bass to your music.


----------



## crackinhedz

Youtube not exactly best source for quality, nor do many of those "rebass" uploaders know what they're doing.

With that said these are some of the better quality sources I've found...

Bassey Bassem- https://mega.nz/#F!a4NRybQY!f0sLCTX2UNaS9UljtssCww

DJ Russticals - https://djrussticals.com/music/

Decaf Astra - https://www.facebook.com/bassheadmusicdownloads/posts/1052233034884782


----------



## Lycancatt

yes, most rebased music is just for fun and doesn't sound very good.


----------



## WDPinit

sqnut said:


> You would be much better off getting a dsp and learning how to tune. The car is a natural bass engine between ~30-90hz, you don't need to add more bass to your music.


I'd love a DSP, but being a broke college student sucks. Maybe I could try a MiniDSP and play around with it? It would probably benefit my sub, but idk if it would benefit passive comps as DSPs are for active. And adding bass, I just feel older rock can really lack due to recording. "Cowboys from Hell" by Pantera is a great song for example, but the lacking bass on system really makes it sound a little bland compared to on headphones


----------



## WDPinit

crackinhedz said:


> Youtube not exactly best source for quality, nor do many of those "rebass" uploaders know what they're doing.
> 
> With that said these are some of the better quality sources I've found...
> 
> Bassey Bassem- https://mega.nz/#F!a4NRybQY!f0sLCTX2UNaS9UljtssCww
> 
> DJ Russticals - https://djrussticals.com/music/
> 
> Decaf Astra - https://www.facebook.com/bassheadmusicdownloads/posts/1052233034884782


I get what you mean, even songs uploaded in good quality are boosted to just sound obnoxious lol. I'll he sure to check out the song links to get a more proper idea. Thanks man


----------



## sqnut

WDPinit said:


> I'd love a DSP, but being a broke college student sucks. Maybe I could try a MiniDSP and play around with it? It would probably benefit my sub, but idk if it would benefit passive comps as DSPs are for active. And adding bass, I just feel older rock can really lack due to recording. "Cowboys from Hell" by Pantera is a great song for example, but the lacking bass on system really makes it sound a little bland compared to on headphones


Don't worry, everyone is broke while in college. If you can swing a mini dsp for about a 100, that would be a good start. You can run a dsp with passives. Just keep the mid an tweet close to each other and you can TA them as one source and align them with the sub. It should be better than what it is now. Adding the bass sounds like a fun experiment though.


----------



## crackinhedz

WDPinit said:


> I get what you mean, even songs uploaded in good quality are boosted to just sound obnoxious lol. I'll he sure to check out the song links to get a more proper idea. Thanks man


This is from DJ Russticals website: 

https://djrussticals.com


> *No Clipping*
> By using multiple post production mastering techniques, each track has the correct balance of output and headroom without losing any dynamics in the track. This provides a 100% clean signal across the entire bandwidth. With clean music, your equipment is more likely to have a greater lifespan
> 
> *Greater Bandwidth*
> Every remastered track has a wider bandwidth – pushing the lower end as far down as 10Hz and the top end to 20kHz without hitting the ceiling of the track. Keeping the correct balance in levels allows for a much wider bandwidth without causing distortion. Those creates a more pleasurable listening experience.
> 
> *Mastered Dynamics*
> With subtle differences from the original recording, each track provides the listener a new, unique experience. Very carefully, remastering effects like EQ, De-Esser, Studio FET Compressor, Noise Gate, Gain, Limiter and Side Channel Balancing are correctly applied to improve the original dynamics of each track.




Though, many of them are intended to give your subs a workout!


----------



## DC/Hertz

If you like bass you will enjoy it. 
If you like music the way it was intended you won't like.


----------



## WDPinit

sqnut said:


> WDPinit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love a DSP, but being a broke college student sucks. Maybe I could try a MiniDSP and play around with it? It would probably benefit my sub, but idk if it would benefit passive comps as DSPs are for active. And adding bass, I just feel older rock can really lack due to recording. "Cowboys from Hell" by Pantera is a great song for example, but the lacking bass on system really makes it sound a little bland compared to on headphones
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, everyone is broke while in college
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . If you can swing a mini dsp for about a 100, that would be a good start. You can run a dsp with passives. Just keep the mid an tweet close to each other and you can TA them as one source and align them with the sub. It should be better than what it is now. Adding the bass sounds like a fun experiment though.
Click to expand...

Hmm I could definitely trade my LC7i for that, then as long as it isn't too much difficulty to switch out for a novice. I only really like how it gives the sub a good enhancement with Accubass and it lets me keep my gains down. Can the DSP allow me to achieve the same effect? I'd also be happy to tune and work out some of that cancellation and other issues due to being in a trunk and what not.


----------



## WDPinit

DC/Hertz said:


> If you like bass you will enjoy it.
> If you like music the way it was intended you won't like.


That's good to know. Thank you


----------



## WDPinit

crackinhedz said:


> WDPinit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you mean, even songs uploaded in good quality are boosted to just sound obnoxious lol. I'll he sure to check out the song links to get a more proper idea. Thanks man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is from DJ Russticals website:
> 
> https://djrussticals.com
> 
> 
> 
> *No Clipping*
> By using multiple post production mastering techniques, each track has the correct balance of output and headroom without losing any dynamics in the track. This provides a 100% clean signal across the entire bandwidth. With clean music, your equipment is more likely to have a greater lifespan
> 
> *Greater Bandwidth*
> Every remastered track has a wider bandwidth ? pushing the lower end as far down as 10Hz and the top end to 20kHz without hitting the ceiling of the track. Keeping the correct balance in levels allows for a much wider bandwidth without causing distortion. Those creates a more pleasurable listening experience.
> 
> *Mastered Dynamics*
> With subtle differences from the original recording, each track provides the listener a new, unique experience. Very carefully, remastering effects like EQ, De-Esser, Studio FET Compressor, Noise Gate, Gain, Limiter and Side Channel Balancing are correctly applied to improve the original dynamics of each track.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Though, many of them are intended to give your subs a workout!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I like them. They definitely gave my sealed Kappa (trust me they can hit) a workout and didn't sound bad either!


----------



## sqnut

WDPinit said:


> Hmm I could definitely trade my LC7i for that, then as long as it isn't too much difficulty to switch out for a novice. I only really like how it gives the sub a good enhancement with Accubass and it lets me keep my gains down. Can the DSP allow me to achieve the same effect? I'd also be happy to tune and work out some of that cancellation and other issues due to being in a trunk and what not.


Accubass is nothing but an EQ boost in the 80-125hz range. The mini dsp will allow you to align your sub and mid bass with each other, so as to eliminate the cancellations in this range due to mistimed drivers. If the drivers are timed right, you win't need that boost and even if you want a bit extra, you will have the eq on the mini dsp.


----------



## Bayboy

A DSP should be used for tuning if it doesn't have an extra EQ for global equalization for music that lacks. You can still temporarily adjust bass & treble or mono EQ controls on the headunit even though you're running a DSP after it. That is exactly what I do when playing certain albums that are poorly mastered. Even Floyd Toole says there's nothing wrong with making such adjustments during playback, because not all music is recorded equally. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## sqnut

Bayboy said:


> A DSP should be used for tuning if it doesn't have an extra EQ for global equalization for music that lacks. You can still temporarily adjust bass & treble or mono EQ controls on the headunit even though you're running a DSP after it. That is exactly what I do when playing certain albums that are poorly mastered. Even Floyd Toole says there's nothing wrong with making such adjustments during playback, because not all music is recorded equally.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Of course, the other option is to not listen to poorly recorded music .


----------



## Bayboy

Sarcasm welcome , but I do find it absurd to only choose music that is recorded "well" vs music that you actually like. I personally see nothing alluring about Rebecca Pidgeon when I can simply add or cut a frequency band or two on a global EQ. 

On another note, one of the best features on the JBL MS-A amps was a bass shelf remote that affected both sub and mid (multiple amps) to keep the blend intact. I'd like to see more amps provide the same. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## sqnut

Bayboy said:


> Sarcasm welcome , but I do find it absurd to only choose music that is recorded "well" vs music that you actually like. I personally see nothing alluring about Rebecca Pidgeon when I can simply add or cut a frequency band or two on a global EQ.
> 
> On another note, one of the best features on the JBL MS-A amps was a bass shelf remote that affected both sub and mid (multiple amps) to keep the blend intact. I'd like to see more amps provide the same.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I wasn't being sarcastic, I'm just a dinosaur from an era when music was well recorded, by and large.


----------



## Bayboy

sqnut said:


> I wasn't being sarcastic, I'm just a dinosaur from an era when music was well recorded, by and large.


I won't claim the dinosaur status although I'm 47, but I will say I've been blessed enough to experience well recorded music from earlier decades too. Still, that has little to no bearing on past or current music that I find appealing enough to not only listen to, but collect as well when a simple bass or treble adjustment during playback works well. Some of the rhetoric is exaggerated. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

WDPinit said:


> I'd love a DSP, but being a broke college student sucks. Maybe I could try a MiniDSP and play around with it? It would probably benefit my sub, but idk if it would benefit passive comps as DSPs are for active. And adding bass, I just feel older rock can really lack due to recording. "Cowboys from Hell" by Pantera is a great song for example, but the lacking bass on system really makes it sound a little bland compared to on headphones


Great responses so far.

With the "Re-Bassing", IMO you'd just be trying to polish a turd.

Does the DJ Russticals website ( https://djrussticals.com ) or others actually have access to the original master tapes or digital files to do their "re-mastering"? I doubt it. Though I've found it fairly amazing what you CAN do these days with some good DAW "Plug-Ins" and basic EQ.

Concentrate and invest in the system and install itself, and tuning. Do try and save up for a decent DSP, but to start, the most important part is speaker selection, location, and mounting/enclosure. And you don't need über expensive, high-end speakers to get REALLY good sound. Even if you did get a good DSP, there is only so much you can do if the install itself isn't optimized. Start there.

What does your system consist of currently?
What vehicle is it and what speaker locations are you using?

Don't be shy or embarrassed...we ALL started as noobs and without a clue as to what we were doing, haha. And I still don't know what I'm doing half the time. 

Maybe we can offer suggestions on how to improve your setup with the equipment that you already have. 

If you heard most of those songs you are complaining about on a decent system, you might be quite surprised with the quality and impact of the bass. Sure, there are plenty of recordings that are just poorly recorded, mixed, and/or mastered, and you just have to enjoy them for the performance or music itself.


----------



## DC/Hertz

bbfoto said:


> Great responses so far.
> 
> With the "Re-Bassing", IMO you'd just be trying to polish a turd.
> 
> Does the DJ Russticals website ( https://djrussticals.com ) or others actually have access to the original master tapes or digital files to do their "re-mastering"? I doubt it. Though I've found it fairly amazing what you CAN do these days with some good DAW "Plug-Ins" and basic EQ.
> 
> Concentrate and invest in the system and install itself, and tuning. Do try and save up for a decent DSP, but to start, the most important part is speaker selection, location, and mounting/enclosure. And you don't need über expensive, high-end speakers to get REALLY good sound. Even if you did get a good DSP, there is only so much you can do if the install itself isn't optimized. Start there.
> 
> What does your system consist of currently?
> What vehicle is it and what speaker locations are you using?
> 
> Don't be shy or embarrassed...we ALL started as noobs and without a clue as to what we were doing, haha. And I still don't know what I'm doing half the time.
> 
> Maybe we can offer suggestions on how to improve your setup with the equipment that you already have.
> 
> If you heard most of those songs you are complaining about on a decent system, you might be quite surprised with the quality and impact of the bass. Sure, there are plenty of recordings that are just poorly recorded, mixed, and/or mastered, and you just have to enjoy them for the performance or music itself.


I don't think you understand the point. 
It's just to have fun. It's not meant to be sonically accurate. 
It's about demoing a random song and having a crazy bass note come out of nowhere.


----------



## bbfoto

WDPinit said:


> I like a wide range of music and am usually satisfied with the bass found in EDM and rap. As we all know, it can definitely be lacking in country, rock and especially Mexican music. *Whether it's lost in recording or just not there*, I'd love a little bump where it's lacking. I've heard of the Epicenter and many say it's overpriced and *just adds boomy bass*. Apparently rebassing sounds better using online software?* I tried out a couple of "rebassed" songs on YouTube and they all sound book and way overdone with the bass.* Not sure if that's preference of the uploaders or what. If I get this software and learn it *can I add some tight bass to lacking songs* _or_ *will I always get overpowered boominess?*





DC/Hertz said:


> I don't think you understand the point.
> It's just to have fun. It's not meant to be sonically accurate.
> It's about demoing a random song and having a crazy bass note come out of nowhere.


I don't read it that way. I think I understand what he is trying to do. Either way, my points will help him to have his cake and eat it too.

It's not cheap, but look into *iZotope RX* or the less expensive "Elements" version.

*iZotope RX 6 - Repair and Edit*


----------



## WDPinit

Lol a lot of responses in my time doing work and what not, so I'll try to touch on all that's been discussed. The "setup" we're looking at is in a 2007 Acura TL with a stock head unit. Getting a different head unit in there would a pain to install and the only way is having both the factory and the aftermarket installed in the center dash at the same time, weird look lol. Apparently the stock HU and system has a pretty flat EQ. The components I have are JBL GX600C comps in the stock location (6.5 mid in each door with the tweets on each corner of the dash). I amped them in January with a Zapco ST-2X. Was pissed when it went bad where the left RCA connected. Got a replacement one and am still happy. Can't complain about a clean 80x2 W @2 ohms for less than $100! Sub is an Infinity Kappa 120.9w I snagged for like $110 through SonicElectronix like a year ago getting 500w @ 2ohms from an Excelon mono. Even in 1.0cuft sealed, it isn't that far off in volume from the 2x12 ported RF P1s I had before (way cleaner though). I had my doors done with Roadkill with my 2 ch and LC7i install and did the trunk myself. Overall the sound deadening didn't make as big of an impact as I had expected lol. 

Some days it sounds great, others not so much. Can't explain why at the same levels this afternoon I played "Hold my Hand" by Hootie, which is I guess soft rock and it was really hitting hard in the deep bass spots. Played it just a bit ago on my way to the gym and was lighter in bass for sure, sounded balanced. 

I'm not going to try rebassing judging by your responses. I'm not willing to compromise the sq for more bump (or better yet boom). I guess I'll need better EQ and tuning as you've all said. I had thought DSPs served few benefits to speakers with passive crossovers, shows how little I know lol


----------



## WDPinit

The RX6 looks great but unfortunately I don't have the $ yet :/


----------



## bbfoto

Cool. Thanks for the info. Great car, and it looks like you have capable equipment.

If you do add a DSP in the future, try to get one that has a secondary input, either analog RCA or Digital Coax or Toslink optical. This would allow you to connect a separate, High-End source unit, such as a portable DAP like the FiiO X5-III (I'm using the iBasso DX90 & DX200). Some of these aren't that expensive but would provide you with a substantially better source signal than your OEM Head Unit. And you'd also be able to use them with headphones on-the-go or with a home stereo setup as well, with headphones or speakers.

You wouldn't even need the DSP in the car to take advantage of a DAP. I use the Analog Line Output from both of my iBasso DAPs. You can feed this directly into your Amplifier's RCA inputs (the line output can be set to "variable" so you have volume control from the DAP).

The most important aspect to achieving great bass is optimizing the response and integration of the Subwoofer-to-midbass transition. And in fact, a lot of what we perceive as Bass Impact is actually reproduced by the Mid-Bass drivers and midrange/tweeter that provide the sharp transient attacks of the harmonics.

Regarding the varying bass levels in your system on the same tracks at different times, my only thought is that perhaps you have a bad or inadequate Power connection, either Positive (+) or Ground (-) that is sometimes not feeding your amp full power...Or a faulty output stage in the amp itself?

Or the subwoofer amp isn't _always_ actually turning on every time you turn on your Head Unit, start the car, etc. What are you using to trigger the "Remote ON" power input of the subwoofer amp? 

Have you confirmed that your subwoofer is actually working/playing when you've felt that the bass level is much lower than "normal"? Maybe the wiring connection to the sub itself is intermittent, though that would tend to cut in/cut out while you were listening and be obvious.


----------



## crackinhedz

bbfoto said:


> Does the DJ Russticals website ( https://djrussticals.com ) or others actually have access to the original master tapes or digital files to do their "re-mastering"?


I messaged him out of curiosity, he uses his CD's as his source. 

No complaints here, can't ask for more when he uploads them for free.


----------



## WDPinit

Wtf, third time I've had to try and typr this reply since the Internet here at the gym wants to be a d*ck. So I apologize if it's not as detailed... 

I just don't think my equipment is worthy of an expensive DAC. Even more so, I use MP3s (not bad quality ones, though). 

Your response on the mid bass vs bass perception is not something I realized. I always thought musical bass= more mid and bass with impact= sub. Finding and tuning to that proper transition must be a great audio experience. Would really love to be able to catch some great mid range attack from rock or something like Mexican music where you have a lot of horns.

As for my amp, power, and wiring it should all check out. Amp turns on and off with the car. That experience I had today might stem from the LC7i thinking back. The song before was heavy rap and I guess the LC7i didn't adjust or eq going to soft rock too well making it more thumpy. On my way to the gym it was all rock so I guess that's why the bass came out balanced and just right. Also, I had my sunroof totally open earlier today and apparently some people say that can give your bass more thump with how the bass flows, but you know more of that than I. I actually had that intermittent a year ago because my last mono was a crappy RF Prime that threw itself into protect even with the gains down lol


----------



## bbfoto

WDPinit said:


> Wtf, third time I've had to try and typr this reply since the Internet here at the gym wants to be a d*ck. So I apologize if it's not as detailed...
> 
> I just don't think my equipment is worthy of an expensive DAC. Even more so, I use MP3s (not bad quality ones, though).
> 
> Your response on the mid bass vs bass perception is not something I realized. I always thought musical bass= more mid and bass with impact= sub. Finding and tuning to that proper transition must be a great audio experience. Would really love to be able to catch some great mid range attack from rock or something like Mexican music where you have a lot of horns.
> 
> As for my amp, power, and wiring it should all check out. Amp turns on and off with the car. That experience I had today might stem from the LC7i thinking back. The song before was heavy rap and I guess the LC7i didn't adjust or eq going to soft rock too well making it more thumpy. On my way to the gym it was all rock so I guess that's why the bass came out balanced and just right. Also, I had my sunroof totally open earlier today and apparently some people say that can give your bass more thump with how the bass flows, but you know more of that than I. I actually had that intermittent a year ago because my last mono was a crappy RF Prime that threw itself into protect even with the gains down lol



Well, when using MP3's, the first areas that the compression algorithm affects (by "throwing away" musical information) are the upper treble frequencies and lower bass frequencies. The codec/algorithm optimizes frequencies from about 80-100Hz to 12kHz to maintain the "meat" of the signal and for best "midrange" and vocal intelligibility, but the extreme upper treble and lower bass frequencies are sacrificed. Piano recordings are among the most difficult to accurately reproduce, and the compression effects are most noticeable here.

I'm not saying that all MP3's sound bad. They can sound very good if converted properly, but it depends A LOT on program material itself, the bit rate used, the actual codec or encoding software that's used, and its default settings. Some (most) MP3 conversion software have default LPF and HPF engaged. If you dig through the settings, some conversion software allow you to disable these or to set the parameters, but usually just the cutoff frequency.

My sister is a classical pianist, and she says that she's never heard a solo piano performance reproduced convincingly (mostly in regards to realistic dynamics, harmonics & overtones) when listening to an MP3 file, even when the original source recording is top-notch. I can't quite hear the difference to the extremes that she describes, but she says it's "Night & Day" compared to listening to a Lossless WAV file (from an excellent recording).



Ahhh...that's right, you're using the LC7i with its "AccuBASS" system and the LC7i is also switching on your amps via signal sensing on the inputs, correct?

Do you have the ACR-1 dash remote for the LC7i to control the level of the low frequency output?

And yes, opening or closing the Sunroof will completely change the bass response in the vehicle. You are effectively changing the "transfer function" or "cabin gain" response of the low frequencies.

Due to the unique interior dimensions of a particular vehicle, it will have a unique "bass reinforcement" response that's additive to that same subwoofer that otherwise "plays flat" outside of the vehicle in open air. Opening the sunroof changes one of the main "boundaries" of your vehicle's cabin or "enclosure".


----------



## WDPinit

Now, I have used MP3s and full CD quality and honestly haven't noticed much difference, but then again my ear isn't as discriminating as yours. I try to avoid actual CDs in my car as the CD player's signal is kind of weak. Good sound, but so much quieter. The piano thing I completely agree with your sister, even to my ears. On a system, pianos often sound compressed (in my MP3s) as you've said or just weak on headphones. 

Yes, the LC7i has GTO. I have the remote, but I honestly rarely use it. I'm pretty surprised how much of an effect the sunroof has...

Sorry for the late reply, it's been a busy weekend thus far haha.


----------



## SQ_Blaze

WDPinit said:


> I've heard of the Epicenter and many say it's overpriced and just adds boomy bass.


Not true. It's not expensive nor is it boomy if used and dialed in correctly. I've used an Epicenter in every system I've owned, and never was it ever boomy. This is going all the way back to the early 90's.




sqnut said:


> You would be much better off getting a dsp and learning how to tune. The car is a natural bass engine between ~30-90hz, you don't need to add more bass to your music.


This is true except for when you come across recordings that have absolutely no bass in them. Cabin gain from the vehicle isn't going to simply create bass out of nothing.


----------

