# Pleasantly Surprised - 2010 Dodge Ram Regular Cab SQ Installl



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

A style of vehicle that I don't get to do often is a great way to kick off a new install session following my vacation to the OBX. In this case, it’s a 2011 Dodge Ram reg cab belonging to our member SFtrainer.

Goals for the install:

1. As this is his work truck, the install needs to be durable and hidden out of sight
2. No loss of seat movement fore and aft ; seat back must still go pretty much all the way back. (Not the easiest considering the amount of gear we needed to fit back there)
3. Obtain a decently high level of sound quality for daily listening and the occasional MECA competition
4. Still have a little bit of flash built into the design

Though the newer gen Ram have a lot of room behind the seat for a reg cab, the requirements above still made for a pretty challenging install space wise...but in the end, what surprised me the most was how this truck SOUNDED given the locations of the various components. I will touch on this more at the end. 

Let’s get started:

The headunit and a small interim system was already installed by the time I received the vehicle, the headunit is a Sony XNV-770BT all in one NAV piece, the dash opening has been nicely trimmed by another shop to make for a precise fitment around the fascia, I went in and redid some of the wiring to accommodate the new system:










As the system uses Zapco DC reference amps, all tuning is done via Laptop from the front seat via the USB cable that is run into the glovebox:










It was decided a long time ago that this car was going to run a set of Audible Physics XR Duo...the advantage of having so much of the freq range above the dash cannot be overstated in a vehicle like this...we toyed around with the stock top of the dash location or A pillar mounting for the XR3...but in the end, after consulting with fellow Team AP member Chefhow who has a similar vehicle, we decided on the much simpler and stealthier stock location approach, not to mention wrapping the pillars with their integrated grab handles would present quite a challenge.

The XR6 midbass went into the stock lower door location, the customer had previously gone in and sound proofed the inner and outer door skin from the inside...I ran a new set of speaker cables into the door and reorganized some of the alarm related wiring:










Here you can see the ensolite install onto the outer door skin:










I then fabricated two sets of mounting baffles for the XR3 and XR6, the XR3 out of 1/8" hardboard so the phase plug can still fit under the stock grill, and the xr6's out of 3/8" MDF:










The midbass baffles were then coated with truck bedliner to protect them against the elements:










And the XR6s were bolted up:










Here is the termination point on the driver side midbass:










And the speaker fully secured:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

The same procedure followed on the passenger side:





































Next, the plastic door cards received a layer of Deamplifier pro to stop it from buzzing and resonating:



















The XR3s were then secured to the mounting baffle and wired up:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

And then bolted to the factor dash locations:



















Here are some wiring pics of the bundles traveling from the front to the back of the vehicle:





































Now comes the completed pics of the install...due to the vehicle's small interior, it was almost impossible to snap a good picture, but I tried my best hehe...also anyone know how to clean sand particles from the INSIDE of a camera's lens? We managed to pick up some on the beach while on vacation and now it shows up in all the pics 

Here is the view normally, as you can see, nothing can really be seen and the seats are at their full back positions:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Slide both seats up and fold the seat backs forward and here is what you see, a single amp rack/sub enclosure runs the entire width of the cab, with a slight backward tilt. It is wrapped in carpet closely matching the factory finish. A series of vent holes help heat escape from the amp rack, and three covers covered in breathable black trunk liner hide the components from view. Also note that the front fascia of the rack has raised rings sections to highlight the openings:




























Pop off all the covers and here is what you see, two Morel Ultimo SC 10" subwoofers are placed behind each seat in .55 cubic foot sealed enclosures, while the center features an amp rack housing TWO Zapco DC reference amplifiers, a DC650.6 sends 180 watts to each midbass and 150 watts to the XR3, while a DC1100.1 powers the subwoofers with 1100 watts at 2ohms...it’s really hard to see the two amps but you will get a sense in how they are fitted in the build pics to come.

Everything is actually oriented vertically at a perpendicular angle to the floor, with a slanted space in front. I did this in order to space the subwoofers as far away from the seat backs as possible to reduce tactile vibrations against the seat backs...learning from my experience with my first ever vehicle-- an 89 Toyota reg cab pickup; also to give the subs the same visual angle cues as the amp rack.

The inside of the racks are lined with silver 3M Di-noc CF wrap, and three pieces of 3/8" plexi covers the openings, each with circular cutouts with polished inside edges for venting purposes:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Close up pics to show the centered hole in the plexi for the subs and amps, as well as the raised rings around the cutout:




























Now comes the build pics.

Each sub enclosure/rack is made up of several pieces of MDF in varying thickness...here you see them laid out:










The surfaces that will be seen are wrapped in Di-noc:










And the whole thing put together:










Same goes for the other enclosure:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

The center amp rack is also done in a similar fashion; note the slot for passing wires through and the top panel with its vent cutout for heat to escape:










Wrapped in Di-noc:










And put together, with the bottom piece not yet secured:










The bottom amp - DC650.6 is then secured to the rack, to get the tightest fit possible, the Zapco logo was removed from the top of the chassis cover:










The wires are then secured to the back of the rack traveling to their respective locations:










The DC1100.1 was then secured over the first amp at a slightly lower position, the amp is secured via two pieces of CF wrapped 3/4 “ MDF spacer and two metal spacer rods with a bolt traveling through it:










And the new wires are bundled and secured as well, note the bolts and lock nut with a big washer to provide additional support for the bottom amp:










The bottom piece was then secured in place and the amp rack is ready for installation into the vehicle:










Two side pieces were made out of 1/8" hardboard and wrapped in graphite carpet:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

And secured to the outer sides of the sub enclosure, these will be the sides of the finished rack:










The amp rack was then put into the vehicle and wired up, due to the angle it was impossible to show the connections, so here is the best I could do:




























The master ground cable travels through a sealed grommet on the driver side and is bolted directly to the frame, the point of contact is then covered with undercoating to protect it against the elements:



















The two sub enclosures were then secured into the vehicle; each enclosure is anchored to the floor MDF board via 6 screws, and they in turn sandwich and secure the amp rack from both sides with 3 screws each. Here is the naked view before the top cover goes on, showing all the trim:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

The main outer cover is made out of three sections; here is the forward facing portion, before and after the cutouts are made:



















Next, the rings were routed out, the outer edges received a round over and the inner edges have a slant cut on them. The rings are sized so there is 3/4" of MDF to attach the plexi to all around the opening:










The rings were then secured to the front main panel, and the top panel is then fabricated with the vent holes cutout and routed; there is also a small 1" vertical strip attached to the bottom of the front panel at the appropriate angle...though it can be a bit hard to see:










Next the top and front panels are mated together forming the top cover:



















The entire panel was then wrapped with graphite non-backed carpet:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

And the plexi secured to the openings via HD plastic epoxy:




























The grille covers were then fabricated and wrapped in black trunk liner:



















So that’s it...I was quite pleased with the cosmetic outcome, being my first regular cab install in a long time...but the biggest surprise was when we got down to tuning...and here a big thanks goes out to Scott Welch (fellow MECA SQ competitor and judge with consistently one of the highest scoring cars on the west coast) for his awesome tuning abilities 

Out of the box I thought the truck would sound decent, but with never having installed this set of speakers in the stock locations like this, and the fact that the subs were located directly behind the seat, I was worried about how it would all stage, image, and how well the sub will blend with the front.

But all my concerns evaporated quickly, right off the bat with no EQ set, the truck already showed a very neat curve on the RTA...surprisingly, there passenger side has more reflection issues than the driver’s side but it was far from being bad...in fact this truck perhaps needed less work than most of my previous installs from a tuning standpoint.

After a few hours of tuning by RTA and by ear, I popped in for a listen and was quickly BLOWN AWAY...

Tonality wise, it was very pleasant to listen to, smooth yet details highs, superb midrange resolution and the midbass was very punchy. The stage was quite deep; to me it was slightly past the windshield and with such a massive dash and faraway seating position, it only made things seem deeper. ..seemed like 5 or 6 feet in front of me; the width was within the pillar but still good considering the locations, and height was very good as well...the one part that really blew my mind was the bass response...despite the subs being so close to you, it was REALLY anchored upfront almost centered in the dash...on most songs, you hardly feel the vibrations to your back, and I even cranked up the techno song "Havana", where the opening drum line features a very punchy midbass portion with a fat bass line; this track can easily expose a lack of integration between the midbass and the sub, resulting in what appears to be two separate notes...but man...in this truck, even turned to a really high level, it was solidly one note and right in the middle of the dash...and its kinda funny because at this high output level, you can feel a bit of vibrations in the small of your back, but your mind distinctively says "upfront!"...I previously thought my own car was pretty good at this track, but I jumped into it later to listen to it and it wasn’t even close. 

Once again I am very impressed with the XR Duo...and these subs...and for just an initial baseline tuning session, I already think this truck is going to be quite competitive in the Street class in MECA...I wouldn’t be surprised if it consistent scores higher than my car (a mid to high 70s car).

Here is a snap shot of the RTA curve we achieved in the end...with really NOT a lot of movement on the EQ 










Now I really want to do more of these trucks... 

Cheers,

Bing


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Wow Bing! I don't think I've ever seen a better looking single cab install, the behind the seat part is incredible.


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

thats a beautiful install even if very little fab work (speaker wise) was involved. your amp rack/sub enclosures are always amazing


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## mrfreeze (Jun 7, 2011)

Awesome job, And the little details you added to the sub/amp rack set it over the top.


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Hey Guys,

So I'm the owner of this Dodge and I have to say it's a much nicer truck now than it was a couple weeks ago. I could go on and on about Bing and the level at which he operates. But for the sake of time I will be brief, and to be honest I would rather be in my truck listening than typing right now. From our first meeting about the truck last year Bing has guided this build in just the right direction. From his recommendations on equipment to his extreme patience in answering all my questions and addressing all my concerns. He took my initial idea and gave it the Bing touch, even with some last minute equipment changes (I just had to go Morel subs over perfectly acceptable and certainly cheaper other brands). During the entire process Bing was in touch and always on the ball with every detail. I have to admit it's a bit difficult for me to give up creative control when it comes to audio but with simplicity in sound I have zero regrets. As for the sound....beyond all my expectations. When Bing told me it sounded better than his own car I thought he was joking...but he wasn't...and nearly 24 hours after picking up the truck my only complaint is that my face is starting to hurt from this permanent grin that I can't seem to get rid of. Thank you very much Bing...you are THE MAN.


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

WOW, I love this install. The plexy over the subs is my favorite aspect of this install. Once again another great install by Bing.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Bing, you're the MAN.....very nice looking build, thanks for sharing...Can't wait for the next one


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## myhikingboots (Oct 28, 2010)

Wow that just gave me goose bumps. I have a '09 extended cab Ram with a little extra room that you can experiment with Bing!

Chuck


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

AMAZING!!! I have a 2011 regular cab R/T and i have the H Audio Ebony/Trinity i am going to run in the same locations, a PXE-H660 for processing and the MRX-V60 amp for the ET combo and a pair of Type R 8's that i am about to purchase, this truck has given me lots of motivation to get things going. I know it won't sound as good as yours and my install will be done at TC Audio who are really good they will definitely get a look at this for some ideas.

Thanks Bing and SFTrainer you guys have done an excellent job i wish i had some frequent flyer miles i would like to come hear it lol.


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## jonson (Jul 21, 2009)

as always outstanding, i can only aspire for an install as clean. So you're happy with the stock location of the tweets? (you're normal work always seems to be in the A piller)..

jon


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

I love the format in the back... well done!


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## Midwestrider (Aug 10, 2007)

Very nice install, and yes take a few more truck installs!


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## ALL4SQ (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow! thats nice. The plexi is a nice touch.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Simply Magic! Glad to see another quality job Bing...You are so organized! Do you do Closets too? LOL


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Bluenote said:


> Simply Magic! Glad to see another quality job Bing...You are so organized! Do you do Closets too? LOL


Now that's funny...LOL


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i am about the most disorganized person on pretty much anything else lol


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

That's outstanding. Now I almost kind of WANT my HATs not to fit. lol

I REALLY like this install a lot, Bing. Maybe I'm just old school but it really brings me back to the early to mid-90s style. Durable, can be flashy, excellent SQ.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Looks awesome Bing!!! The XR's love a dash and windshield to reflect off of. If there isnt a dash mat in the car I HIGHLY recommend one, makes a world of difference as I found out on Tuesday night.


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## brad0069 (Jun 11, 2009)

Beautiful install!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Howard, which dash mat did you get? did it have holes pre cut for the speakers?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Mic and I made one the other night and we cut out speaker holes around the grills.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

So fresh and clean. Love your work Bing!


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

BING, How many hours would you say you had in this install


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

hmmm hard to say...i would say...70? since i work on my own schedule, i do take frequent breaks to surf the web to clear my mind when i run into an obstacle. maybe 60?

not all of it working, on tihs baby spent a lot of time scratching my head going where the hell am i going to fit that? lol


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

simplicityinsound said:


> hmmm hard to say...i would say...70? since i work on my own schedule, i do take frequent breaks to surf the web to clear my mind when i run into an obstacle. maybe 60?
> 
> not all of it working, on tihs baby spent a lot of time scratching my head going where the hell am i going to fit that? lol



If you incorporated pastel colored Rhinestones on the Plexi-Glass how much time would that take? LOL


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

I think i am going to have my guys build a downfiring box for 2 type r 8's and have them use the stock tray as a model to make a carpeted, mdf one that looks all factory. Thanks for the pics again.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

JoeHemi57 said:


> I think i am going to have my guys build a downfiring box for 2 type r 8's and have them use the stock tray as a model to make a carpeted, mdf one that looks all factory. Thanks for the pics again.


what is really funny is that our original plan was for four downward firing ID8s in the box... but after the stuff that went down at ID, we re thought our plan...best of luck with your setup...that hsould yield some great results!

b


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> what is really funny is that our original plan was for four downward firing ID8s in the box... but after the stuff that went down at ID, we re thought our plan...best of luck with your setup...that hsould yield some great results!
> 
> b


I think the change in plans was for the best, i really can't imagine anything better than what you guys have done here. I had an IDMax 12 downfired behind the passenger seat back in the day in my 03 Ram reg cab and it was amazing, out of all the subs i've had that is still probably my favorite. Its a shame with what has happened to ID but there are some deals to be had out there on their stuff.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

for sure, but knowing that the money doesnt go to Eric...i dont wanna do it 

b


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Bing - Dashmats are acoustically transparent, or so they say. FWIW, I've never noticed any acoustic changes except a VERY slight reduction in high frequency reflections. You don't want to cut out the speaker locations on one.


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

I LOVE the install!!! I have personally heard the speakers listed and other Audible Physics offerings, THEY ARE THE TRUTH!!! I highly recommend getting a listen.


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## garrett2r2taz (Nov 30, 2010)

wow love the sub box! great work keep it up! glad to see 2 morels put together in a car only usually see a single morel sub


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

cajunner, i played the system without the front plate in place, didnt affect the tactile vibrations one bit...infact sounded identical with out the front plate, with or without the grille cover...


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Wonderful install Mr. Bing. I know it has to sound magical in there with those drivers as well.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Great job Bing as always. I think it could break into the 80's with some time and the dash mat.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

cajunner said:


> that's one experiment I haven't had much experience with.
> 
> going from the effects that putting a 10" sub in the rear deck on a 6X9" opening do to the sound, I would have thought there would be some change in output due to the cone moving the extra mass of air back and forth through the plexi opening, from coupling.
> 
> ...


It's pretty simple really. With a large enough opening in front of the sub then there is no tuning on that "chamber". There is no bandpass effect at all.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i was hoping for zero tuning or bandpass effect...but i cant say exactly how much it affects things without putting it back on the rta again and check 

b


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

I think i am going to go downfiring with my 2 type r 8's behind the driver seat, mine has the buckets with center console and shifter and with the power driver seat you can't really get much back there anyways. In my previous experiece with these trucks downfiring makes a very noticable difference in output but may not stage as well as it is probably a little more easy to locate where the bass is coming from.


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## Schneiderd (Jun 9, 2011)

That amp rack is gorgeous.


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## Mr. C (Oct 17, 2008)

This install is impressive. Sub box/amp rack is beautiful.

Also now re-thinking my plans for my truck since we share similar mid/high mounting locations. Just may be making a switch to the Audible Physics XR's if I can fit the XR3m's beneath my factory grills. 

Love seeing your work. Gives me ideas and motivation. Keep it up.


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

Never seen a std cab system that nice. Beautiful as usual Bing.


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## blackout11 (Jul 10, 2011)

simply wow


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## Cali_Screw (Aug 26, 2008)

Freaking Bad ass, love the look! Does the plexi interfere at all with the bass?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Great job again Bing!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Cali_Screw said:


> Freaking Bad ass, love the look! Does the plexi interfere at all with the bass?


from what we discovered, it either doesnt interfere with the bass or it improves the response by providing a lil bit of loading...

but to my ears it sounds basically the same with or without the front cover on  

gonna try to get the truck out to the sq comp in SJ on the 23rd if you wanna take a listen


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Oh I have a feeling the truck will be there.....


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

u better! i got a bunch of people wanting to listen to the XR3s haha

including myself lol


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## Audio-Concepts (Mar 29, 2011)

Gorgeous install!


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

If that truck sounds as good as it looks, it must really be something.

To say "nice work" seems like a massive understatement.


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## Big_Valven (Aug 20, 2008)

Great work as always. I find the Plexi panels on the front with the cut outs to be a great flair to the install.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Wouldn't the plexy kind of emulate a bandpass of sorts? Just seems like it's creating a front cavity w/large port?

The fabrication work is top notch though!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

BowDown said:


> Wouldn't the plexy kind of emulate a bandpass of sorts? Just seems like it's creating a front cavity w/large port?
> 
> The fabrication work is top notch though!


perhaps...but when the cutout is as big as the cone itself...does it really matter?


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## x97chevy (Dec 18, 2009)

Amazing work definatley looks great and factory so to speak.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Another great looking install Bing. Nice work. And congrats on your new setup SFTrainer. I hate that I won't be at the show on the 23rd to listen to/judge this truck!!

And I love seeing another satisfied Audible Physics customer. I have been nothing but impressed with every AP driver I've dealt with thus far.


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## rhannahs (Mar 5, 2011)

very nice!


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## Goindef154 (Apr 26, 2008)

Wow, that thing is amazing, love the little details of painting the new door speaker templates that no one will ever see, it's always the little things.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

I just heard this Dodge Ram at a local SQ meet this afternoon and the sound is really a Pleasant Surprise! Those XR Duo's sound much bigger than they are and provide a very full and detailed listening experience.  

Yep.


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

Bluenote said:


> I just heard this Dodge Ram at a local SQ meet this afternoon and the sound is really a Pleasant Surprise! Those XR Duo's sound much bigger than they are and provide a very full and detailed listening experience.
> 
> Yep.


I also took a listen today. The sound of those XRs was really something else. Rich, clear and pleasing. Also, I was surprised at how well the windshield firing configuration worked. Everyone says it's a bad way to fire speakers, but it put the stage up higher where the reflection came from. It literally sounded like the speakers were on the sides of the windshield, right where the grab handles are. Very impressive system.


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Hey thanks a lot for the kind words, it was a pleasure coming out today and seeing some local cars and entering my first contest. A lot of impressive systems and some really nice guys.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

If you entered the contest how did you do? Is there any area that needs improvement? I can't imagine there would be just curious.


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Well I think I did pretty well...scored an 82.0. Took 2nd place in street class. The guy who beat me earned every point and deserved the win, from one I understand he is one of the more dedicated guys out there in the competition scene and from the brief conversation I had with him seemed like a really nice guy, my only regret after the fact it that I didn't have the chance to listen to his car. I don't have much of idea as to what these numbers mean, but I'm told 82 is an excellent score, so I'm happy. Everyone who heard the truck really seemed to like it...my favorite part was the reaction when I told some people there were no tweeters....the most common response was...what do you mean there are no tweeters?


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

Congrats on the score and good luck on winning some more trophys in the future, i'm sure there will be plenty! I can't wait to tell people there's no tweeters in mine too I am thinking of making an amp change for more power and maybe using something different than the imprint.


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Good call on the more power and ditching the pxe...it's just not on par with the other processors out there.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Shawn, that was a fantastic first time out! i dont recall actually another car i have built over the past few years that had this simple of a layout interms of locations, was that easy to tune and scored this well its first time out  I think this truck will be a force to be reckoned with out here in Street class if you keep coming and make some small changes here and there! remember regionals is only a coupla months away  


as for the first place car hehe, thats my build from two years ago:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ple-g35-coupe-sq-install-yes-another-g35.html
He worked really hard and went to a ton of shows last year, and its one of many G35s i built with seas lotus reference in doors/a pillars and Zapco DC reference power. So as a benefit, when one of the G35 coupes i built had the honor of being tuned by world champion Natan Budiono, David's car:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...04-sql-install-03-g35-coupe-fellow-diyer.html 

I took that tune and adapted to this one a year later. (the original car won the IASCA rookie cali regionals that year) the subs were totally different so a lot of changes had to be made, but the main tune was fantastic...the car was subsequently retuned a few times by Eng to make further improvements  Also, this tune file is now the foundation for almost all my SQ g35 coupe builds, and is actually in three other cars,  but Anthony is the only one that still competes hehe 

please keep in mind that its a similar build and tune to another car i did that was TUNED by a world champion, not a copy from a system and tune OF a world champion  those two are quite different things hehe


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

My bad Bing, didn't mean to imply Anthony didn't earn it. He certainly did and I look forward to seeing him at future meets, I'm only sorry I didn't have a chance to hear his G35. It was a lot of fun meeting some like minded guys and hearing a few other systems. Thanks for hosting the event.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

WOW Bing ~~

Awesome , Morel, XR DUO, and your install skills = a Big Win everytime...


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Nice!


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Amazing install and I very happy the XR Duo is serving you well and that everyone really seem to have enjoyed their listening experience in the Ram. Great job to you and Bing and most of all Thank you for all your support.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

I really dont think i can take much credit on how this truck's front stage sounds...i have never encountered a vehicle and equipment combo that really works so well with so little design and fabrication effort. i mean its just drop in stock locations.

and somehow they work so well. so bravo Mark for such a wonderful product, and props to SFtrainer for picking a great vehicle hahaha


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and awhile.


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## Frank Drebin (May 30, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> I really dont think i can take much credit on how this truck's front stage sounds...i have never encountered a vehicle and equipment combo that really works so well with so little design and fabrication effort. i mean its just drop in stock locations.
> 
> and somehow they work so well. so bravo Mark for such a wonderful product, and props to SFtrainer for picking a great vehicle hahaha


This is awesome to hear, I ordered a set of XR Duo's from Mark this morning for my '11 Club cab...for a beginner like me it's great to be able to use stock locations. I thought I "had" to have tweeters but I'm hearing such good things about the wideband drivers...plus the reviews on this truck and it's a no-brainer to use this set in the Dodge.

I will be using some of your install techniques in my build, and I give full credit to this thread for my front speaker selection.

I won't have a build thread, but I will update with install pics.

Cheers.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

yeah you dont have to worry about top end...infact, one of the parts where the truck LOST points on at saturdays event was a lil too hot up on the top end 

there is plenty to be had there.


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## killahsharksjc (Apr 30, 2009)

Great Job on the install Bing. It was definitely a pleasure to listen to... those tweeter-less tweeters sounded amazing... two thumbs up.. what the hek three thumbs up.. lol


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## killahsharksjc (Apr 30, 2009)

Tweeter-Less tweeter = a Driver that is not a tweeter but sounds like a tweeter.. lmao..


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

cajunner said:


> props might go as well, to Dodge's acoustic engineering department, whether it was pure luck (blind squirrel) or not, stock locations FTW...



It might be the slight inward angle of the stock dash locations:laugh:


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

I'm not sure how much credit I would give to dodge, afterall the stock system sounded horrible....but I do think these little widebanders are a perfect match for this truck...and it seems like the zapco 650.6 is the perfect amp to power a set of audible physics components.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

SfTrainer said:


> I'm not sure how much credit I would give to dodge, afterall the stock system sounded horrible....but I do think these little widebanders are a perfect match for this truck...and it seems like the zapco 650.6 is the perfect amp to power a set of audible physics components.



I don't think you were getting much help from Dodge...it was all in the install(tuning) and equipment....very nice overall build


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

cajunner said:


> this might get a little offensive, so stop now if you're the fragile sort... (been getting a bunch of negative rep for no good reason)
> 
> but I believe that most reasonably good widebanders with a time-alignment capable processing amplifier along with a good solid midbass, will work equally well in the truck.
> 
> ...


Well we will find out i have the same type of truck and H Audio Ebony and Trinitys i'm waiting on to go in, processor and amp were going to be pxe-h660 and mrx-v60 but possibly changing out as i want more power for them and a built in processor if i can get a price on the Mosconi 120.4 with DSP.


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## SQHemi (Jan 17, 2010)

JoeHemi57 said:


> Well we will find out i have the same type of truck and H Audio Ebony and Trinitys i'm waiting on to go in, processor and amp were going to be pxe-h660 and mrx-v60 but possibly changing out as i want more power for them and a built in processor if i can get a price on the Mosconi 120.4 with DSP.


One thing to remember when using wide banders up high near the glass, make sure you have a powerful enough eq/dsp to get the desired results. I was the tuner for the Truck and having only 10 bands of eq from the Zapco amp was very challenging when covering 200-20k bandwidth. And although good results could have been attained from using any wide bander, in this truck, with its proximity and angle to the glass, the warm, laid back sound characteristic of the H Audio worked extremely well. A more aggressive, lesser controlled, lower quality driver would have been harder to tame in this application. But rest assured there is some Bing pixey dust spread around behind the scenes, I think you guys may have overlooked it since the install is so "simple". 

Congrats Shawn on breaking into the 80's your first time out. 

See you in the lanes 

Scott


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

okay, i give up...i will tell yall the secret.

I hired Chuck Norris and he stared at the truck and shouted "behave!" and the frequency just flattened itself


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

simplicityinsound said:


> okay, i give up...i will tell yall the secret.
> 
> I hired Chuck Norris and he stared at the truck and shouted "behave!" and the frequency just flattened itself


I knew Chuck Norris played a role somewhere in this!


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

So on the first page it says that there was minimal tuning and little eq neccessary and now it seems that it was a little more difficult than was first implied so i don't know what to think now.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

JoeHemi57 said:


> So on the first page it says that there was minimal tuning and little eq neccessary and now it seems that it was a little more difficult than was first implied so i don't know what to think now.


its easy in the sense that it was MUCH easier than we anticipated being thats its a widebander in stock locations.

also i guess i called it easy in the sense that it didnt really take that much time to get it to this point. Scott...what would say? about 1.5-2 hours iirc?

but i wouldnt call it "so easy that a caveman can do it" type of easy...

in other words, right out of the box, the curve on the rta was quite a bit better looking than some other cars i have done in the past. I also believe that we probably could not have achieved a similar sq result with a normal two way or three way setup in such limited time...and i think a score of above 80 in its first comp off of less than 2 hours of tune time is indicative of that?

b


p.s. i dont think i said minimal tuning  i said the truck sounded great from an "initial baseline tune"  and keep in mind that is still an initial tune from scott (sqhemi) who really knows what hes doing and have great equipment.


I want to i guess squash the rumors and misinterpretations right here and right now. I think this is often how a certain speaker or brand gets blown out of proportion when it comes to performance. something like this, after it gets passed around a dozen forums and from person to person, may end up like "yo put these XRduo into your ram and boom, you will score a 95 at the comp with almost no tune!, they are hte bestestestest speakers on the planet!"

I apologize for that, and should quantify more when i make statements suggesting how simple or easy something is  keep in mind that i do get to build many dozens of active SQ cars a year, and i have access to a top notch tuner...so what i may suggest as simple and easy, may get misinterpreted as all you need to do is move a few bands on some eq and boom, its done!...its far from that 

i would wholehearted recomend these speakers for this truck in stock locations, but dont expect it to sound awesome right out of the box or if you dont have much tuning experience....dont expect to get as good of a result. Hell, if i tried to tune this car myself just by my very limited skills and ear, i wouldnt get nearly half this good with triple the time.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

SfTrainer said:


> I'm not sure how much credit I would give to dodge, afterall the stock system sounded horrible....but I do think these little widebanders are a perfect match for this truck...and it seems like the zapco 650.6 is the perfect amp to power a set of audible physics components.


Putting better equipment into factory locations was the key here. The OEM speaker locations may have been just fine, but the factory stereo was hobbled by cheap components and/or poorly-implemented crossovers, coupled with minimal tuning capabilities and insufficient power.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

cajunner said:


> this might get a little offensive, so stop now if you're the fragile sort... (been getting a bunch of negative rep for no good reason)
> 
> but I believe that most reasonably good widebanders with a time-alignment capable processing amplifier along with a good solid midbass, will work equally well in the truck.
> 
> ...



Why would you insult the integrity of this build and all that were involved


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## myhikingboots (Oct 28, 2010)

Hey Bing, I was just wondering what crossover points and slopes were used with this setup and what other drivers you would consider (if any) for this truck. I was set on using HAT L3SE's before reading all the love for Mark's drivers. 

Thanks,
Chuck


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

At this moment, if another customer came to me with a similar budget and design criteria, and have a new model dodge ram, you can rest assured that i will certainly place the XR duo at the top of the list of my recommendations.

this doesnt mean its the only or best design, but its In my opinion, the best i can offer given the constraints


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

cajunner said:


> are you one of the fragile ones?
> 
> I didn't insult anybody.
> 
> ...


i totally get what you are saying 

but also keep in mind that if we are talking JUST about this install, there are many other facets that werent really mentioned that actually applies to the DIY world 

for one, the customer didnt really pay that much for these expensive dsp amps, he had some old reference laying around, i was able to find him a buyer and in a sense traded him the DC amps. so in the end, to him, the cost of both of the amps is much cheaper than a comparable DSP and amps...much much cheaper and miles below normal cost. and i am sure you know, the DIY community is great at picking up good stuff used for really cheap, so i think anyone who is keen on using dc reference on their install to pair up with a XR duo, can prolly wait around, and buy some used at a really good price, thus making them less expensive 

I think people will either be bandwagon jumpers or they wont be, so those who take this thread as some kind of indication that the XR duo and the DC is the ONLY way to go for their dodge ram...well, nothing is going to dissuade them hehe. i always tell people to keep an open mind and try new things...but for myself, i would of course quote this design over and over again in a car like this because out of what i can offer, it is proven to work extremely well.

in other words, i think your logic is totally true, but i think there is no need to single out sftrainer's statements to prove it  many many or even most, of the install logs have a similar effect when people rave about their end result.

looking back, sftrainer said "but I do think these little widebanders are a perfect match for this truck...and it seems like the zapco 650.6 is the perfect amp to power a set of audible physics components."

Its his truck, and to him it is perfect  and to say it in an install log on his vehicle, which has a system he truly enjoys, is hardly forcing that combo down anyone elses throat  After all, we dont live in communist china here 

anyway, thats all i will say on that issue hehe


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## killahsharksjc (Apr 30, 2009)

simplicityinsound said:


> After all, we dont live in communist china here


. Lmfao.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

this is my opinion and my opinion only.

i believe any system installed into any regular car (i.e. not a RV with a home theater in it) since the history of time, can be improved by certain degree by a DSP.

I also believe that any car audio system with a 3 band parametric say on the a normal headunit can be made to sound better with a full dsp. 

the increments can be big or it can be very small, but i believe there is ALWAYS improvements to be had with a few more EQ bands and tuning ability.

of course, this is assuming that everything is installed properly, and by no means is this say you can fix install problems and such with a dsp, but, having the ability to tune more stuff to me will always be of some benefit in a listening environment as poor as a car's interior.

balancing against the need for a dsp is one, the listener's ability to discern good and bad sound or simply, his desire for good or bad sound.

as well as his budget limitations.

in other words, if the world became uber communist utopia where nothing costs anything, i would install a full dsp into every car i do 

and i dont believe there really is such a thing as a super dsp...or at least i dont believe the zapco dsp is any thing super...it has basically the same features as most full dsp units avaiable today with some variations...

anyway, thats my take on it 

and no, i didnt think you were offensive at all


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Sorry Cajunner, but can you please quit with the posturing

Thanks for the different angle you brought to the thread


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Wow...took me a while to catch up on this, seemed like a harmless comment when I made it. All I intended to convey on that was that the h audio drivers seem to like a healthy number of watts, and the zapco's (or any of about a hundred different amps) do a nice job of providing them. In addition I like the fact that they include built in processing. That's it...no underlying intent. I just like my system, as I'm sure most of us do.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

You can go ahead and blow your horn all you want, well deserved

I'm envious:laugh:


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

cajunner said:


> I have only one thing to point out here, and that's your recommendation for a big processor.
> 
> My experience has led me to believe that a non-competitive system, but one that has the dynamics and sheer power of aftermarket goodies, does not necessarily need a super DSP to get acceptable results.
> 
> ...


Having dealt with the acoustics of a Ram I would have to say no. Even with a dead flat wide bander the reflections coming off the glass and the slightly forward angle of the factory mounting position would make for a stage that was high, but also very shallow and narrow. To achieve a real or even somewhat believable depth and width of stage requires some sort of T/A and more than the typical 3 bands of eq. While active xovers with multiple slope choices can help it wont fix the problem. 

Also the underside of the Ram dash IIRC is cavernous and needs some treatment to help absorb the backwave, a good amount of acoustic baffling or insultation helps a great deal and improves the acoustics. The truck itself is full of hard surfaces on and around the dash so there are tons of reflections that need to be dealt with and a mid to high powered DSP would be the best way to do it while using factory locations with simple treatments.

While simple the upgrades are easy to perform its my opnion that people who do what we do and enjoy the music like we claim to would be dissapointed if they didnt go about doing *more* than the most *basic* install possible. Again, this is just my opinion, but having used the AP XR Duo(currently in my car), H-Audio Trinites(top 10 MECA Finals) and other wide banders in a dash location with sucess I will tell you that they need some eq to help when being fired straight up into the glass.

Again, Bing, *OUTSTANDING* work as always!!!! SFTrainer, enjoy them, they will only get better over time is what I am finding.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

cajunner said:


> I'm perfectly in agreement here, with the general gist of the subject of DSP processing.
> 
> I believe that a Dodge Ram with the unique stock locations that this build has, allows for a successful stereo outcome without anything more than time alignment and a 3-band parametric built into the head unit along with bass and treble shelving controls.
> 
> ...



The reason I used the AP and H Audio product is because that is what you referenced based on what the original install used as well as some others who have chimed in. I could have just as easily said the same about TB Bamboo, SB4, Dayton's, Founteks or any number of mid to low priced wide band midrange speakers because I have tried several. Its not the speakers themselves as much as the mounting location and angles that make it slightly difficult to have stellar results without some bit of EQ and T/A. I say this because I have done it, but everyones idea of what sounds good is different.


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## Frank Drebin (May 30, 2011)

Bumping this up to the top instead of creating another thread.

Getting my XR Duo's shortly. Wondering what you used for crossover points? I had read [email protected] db for the the XR3m's, but what kind of bandpass config do you use for the 6.5 drivers?

I was thinking 80 hz and up but not sure what level to bandpass it up to?

Thanks


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

do you have the zapco software? if so i can literally send you the file for the ram and you can reference it directly at what was done. though you may wanna send a small fee to SQ Hemi as he spent hours tuning it to arrive at those settings


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## Frank Drebin (May 30, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> do you have the zapco software? if so i can literally send you the file for the ram and you can reference it directly at what was done. though you may wanna send a small fee to SQ Hemi as he spent hours tuning it to arrive at those settings


That is a great offer and almost worth switching amps over .

I will be using an MS8 for crossovers/tuning (I don't know a lot about this stuff)


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## SQHemi (Jan 17, 2010)

Frank Drebin said:


> Bumping this up to the top instead of creating another thread.
> 
> Getting my XR Duo's shortly. Wondering what you used for crossover points? I had read [email protected] db for the the XR3m's, but what kind of bandpass config do you use for the 6.5 drivers?
> 
> ...


After looking at the tuning file it was 280-20k for the 3's and 70-280 for the 6's. All 24db slopes. 

Scott


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## Frank Drebin (May 30, 2011)

SQHemi said:


> After looking at the tuning file it was 280-20k for the 3's and 70-280 for the 6's. All 24db slopes.
> 
> Scott


Many thanks, again guys, great build.


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## cmahood (Nov 7, 2010)

simplicityinsound-

Thanks for providing such a great thread. I have been fumbling with the Audio in my Dodge Ram for the past four years and finally came to the conclusion that I would want more of the frequencies above the dash.

While I can't afford the same setup, it has got me thinking about how I can accomplish something similar with other components and other dsp.


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## cmahood (Nov 7, 2010)

ftw!


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Use a 4ch. amp and go active, that would give you a lot of flexibility


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## sq_guru (Oct 1, 2011)

Fantastic work! Do you get any kind of bandpass effect from the plexi cover with the large opening on that box?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

not at all, the opening seems to be large enough and directly infront of the sub that no such effect presents itself...or maybe it does do something but it just makes the bass sound good...as it is perhaps the best part of the entire system


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## innovativems (Jul 18, 2011)

just saw this thread, great work! it's very clean


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## redbaronace (Sep 27, 2011)

Bing the more I see your work, the more I want to see. You are truly an artist and craftsman. Thanks for sharing.


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## blackout11 (Jul 10, 2011)

Did you put any speakers in the 6x9 openings behind the seats mt r/t has 2 2x9's up front and 2 6x9's in the back


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

So Bing if you had my beater truck, 2011 Dodge Ram Crew cab what would you use as far as system wise? Mine has the basic radio with I believe 6X9 in the front doors unknown size in rear and tweeters I think in dash. I am not adverse to changing or removing any OEM equipment. Tia


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

blackout11 said:


> Did you put any speakers in the 6x9 openings behind the seats mt r/t has 2 2x9's up front and 2 6x9's in the back


i think the customer had some aftermarket rears in there before i got hte car? i just hooked it up to the rear outputs on the HU...this way, if he actually choses to, he can just fade back, but really it doenst do much in this kind of interior


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> So Bing if you had my beater truck, 2011 Dodge Ram Crew cab what would you use as far as system wise? Mine has the basic radio with I believe 6X9 in the front doors unknown size in rear and tweeters I think in dash. I am not adverse to changing or removing any OEM equipment. Tia


if its the same as this truck, then 6.5" and the XR3 will fit just like this car...as for how much room is behind a new crewcab...i really dont know, would need to see it to know for sure. 

but i'd imagine your biggest challenge is where to locate the sub.

b


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Since I am not big on heavy bass, I'm only going with a 10" one in a hopefully custom center console. I want a strong front stage presence without going custom. Hopefully both my Legacy and Ram will both be done by the end of December. This way I can start on my VW by January. Thank you very much Bing for sharing your knowledge with us.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

lol not sure if i shared any real knowledge there other than what i didnt know...but your welcome


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## UrbanAssaultJeep (Sep 11, 2011)

Nice work as usual


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## Dakota548ci (Jan 5, 2008)

Nice work as always. You make it look so easy. I always look forward to your installs because you do the break down of how you did it.

Shane


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

I wante to update this thread becuase the truck just received some new amps.  One issue with the Zapco DC amps was that their fans run constantly, and they were specially modded by Zapco to have two additional fans per amp. While this works great in a car with a trunk, in a small enclosed space like the dodge ram reg. cab, the fans are quite audible...

so after a coupla years, we decided to make change to the Mosconi AS amps and a 6to8 DSP.

The Mosconis are also fan cooled, but their fans run off temprature sensors...and in my experience, in a relatively open cabin like the ram where the air conditioned air help to cool the amps down, the fans will likely almost never kick on except on very prolonged listening periods. 

luckily for us, a biggest of the AS series amps fit in the spot perfectly in place of the two Zapcos, so i spent the past 3 days installing them and rewiring it for RCAs and the 6to8 DSP 

the DSP went under the seat, where there are plenty of room and out of harms way.

Overall, much quieter and the sound is a bit more open with a lil better detail, and the huge increase in subwoofer power meant the amp hardly has to try to power the subs. 

here are some pics for yall:













































































































Cheers 

p.s. the two prestine Zapco DC (old school design with simblink) will go on sale in classifieds very soon.

b


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

and its good to see the install has weathered the passing times well, despite this being a full work truck...


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

That's because it was installed by someone with foresight.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

lol since i didnt even know Mosconi when this car was worked on...i must be a fortune teller lol


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Then I need some lottery numbers, Bing. LOL

Jay


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

No I mean that your install was so well thought out till it stood the test of time.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

I love the choice of the equipment when I first saw this build (most notably the speakers) and one of the reasons why I went with the XR Duo pair myself even though I have an entirely different car.

For the AS amps, I take it's a 200.4 powering the XR Duo and a 300.2 for the Ultimo SCs?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

papasin said:


> I love the choice of the equipment when I first saw this build (most notably the speakers) and one of the reasons why I went with the XR Duo pair myself even though I have an entirely different car.
> 
> For the AS amps, I take it's a 200.4 powering the XR Duo and a 300.2 for the Ultimo SCs?


U got it 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## DeanE10 (Apr 19, 2011)

Excellent! I just got the same amps for my next build too  Dodge Ram Quad Cab...


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## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

Amazing build, One of my all time favorites for sure. Equipment choice is number 1. 

Is the AS300.2 bridged for 1800 watts in mono? Or is each sub on its own channel wired in stereo?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

stockley.rod said:


> Amazing build, One of my all time favorites for sure. Equipment choice is number 1.
> 
> Is the AS300.2 bridged for 1800 watts in mono? Or is each sub on its own channel wired in stereo?


The former 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

As always nice and clean install with crap load attention to details! 


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

I still love those rounded-over ventilation holes and the carpet finish. It's a dignified look


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

btw, i have to ask...who is that in your signature? i have seen that a bit lol what is the story?


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> btw, i have to ask...who is that in your signature? i have seen that a bit lol what is the story?


It's an internet meme. Look up "Scumbag Steve" on quickmeme.com


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Love the new amps


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