# Zed Audio "Leviathan" my take on it....



## vrdublu

So to start things off I will try to be a little more descriptive than previously in the group buy thread about some of my discoveries on this amp. The amp showed up at my door double boxed which took me a good 10 minutes to unwrap. Inside the amp covered in a plastic sheet with some mounting feet and mounting hardware neatly tucked away in the corner. I'll start with the mounting feet which btw are a great idea in the design of something so simple. Two recessed screws hold down each mounting location which if damaged can be easily replaced, good idea imho. The plexi cover as nice as it is imho will eventually look like the dogs breakfast, and I for one would have preferred a steel cover of some sort, just me though. The included manual on cd is also a great idea as I always tend to lose the damn things then spend days looking online for a pdf version, another good idea. The amp presents itself very well right out of the gate.
Onto installation: The amp installed without a hitch, 4 gauge power to the amp with a 4 gauge ground, 12 gauge speaker wire throughout and some knukonceptz rca's. My system consists of a Pioneer Deh-P980BT HU, Mach5Audio MLI-65 mids in front and rear doors for mid-bass reinforcement, Tang Band 25-1719S25 tweeters which we will discuss later, and a custom mounted JL Audio 8W7 in a 22L box suspended from the rear deck of my 2003 Maxima. Get this, 30A fusing running my entire system.

The first thing I did was Adjust my gains on the amp half way on all channels except the tweeters which were as low as they could go. Turned my HU on and hit ATT just in case. The first thing I noticed was an extremely long turn on delay for the amp, at first I thought there was something wrong but as soon as I went to get my ars out of the seat I heard some music coming from my left front tweeter, no other speaker was playing. Approximately two minutes later as I started to slightly increase volume because I could barely hear the tweeter I heard popping sounds coming from all my speakers, particularly from the tweeters and mids. This was really the only time this happened, something I still can't account for. I quickly shut the HU down and waited for approx. 10 seconds to allow everything to reset before turning the HU on again, voila music to my ears. At this point everything appeared to work ok as I spent the next couple of hours playing with different crossover points to see what I like best. I finally concluded to revert to the settings I had used with the recently sold A/D/S PH30.2 amp I loved, but sold to get this amp instead, to this moment I am using those settings. BTW, the long turn on delay apparently is supposed to help with destroying your speakers and your ears, umm.... not so much the speakers I guess, lol.
My observations: I spent the last couple of days listening to the music I will list here as this was the same music I listened to with the A/D/S which is still fresh in my mind, the MB Quart amps I recently sold also. 
Music:
Tegan & Sara - "The Con", particularly "call it off" which have amazing vocals and wonderful percussion with a great little guitar pick throughout. 
Dire Straits - I really don't need to explain this choice as I have listened to "Brothers in Arms" more times than I would care to mention. Great recording and great tunes.
Cafe Del Mar - Dreams II, really great chill out music with great recordings that let you pick out nuances about each track and the instruments.
Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells II, same reason as above.
Silversun Pickups - Swoon and Carnavas, needed some rock for comparison and as I just saw them live with Muse it was a no brainer.
Radiohead - Is there an album these guys put out that wasn't amazing?
Blue Man Group - The Complex.
Jane's Addiction - All.
Pink Floyd - All.
I think we get the idea here.
So before I even got to the 2nd or 3rd song I noticed that my stage was a little off, as I started snooping around I discovered that my front right tweeter was blown. I believe this happened when I got the popping sound at initial startup but I can't be certain. Although I always break in my speakers prior to use this was unlikely due to anything else. The reason I didn't notice anything earlier was because how truly great this amp sounds. It is so dynamic and lively, it is difficult for me to put into words. It never sounds overly stressed or out of gas shall we say, and I am definitely hearing things especially in the top end I haven't heard in the past in a car audio environment. The mids definitely have some incredible punch to them as this is their really only +, I will be going with a 3-way front stage in the next couple of weeks. Another bonus is the JL sub has lots of power to play with now at times to much!!, the A/D/S amp on the other hand I believe was a little overwhelmed for the most part with it. I particularly love the vocals and how truly smooth and relaxed they sound, the Tang band tweeters certainly help a lot but I can truly say that I can't remember listening to a better sounding amp in 20 years, the key here is "I can't remember". Guitar picking, percussion in live tracks, cymbals crashing have a really nice sound to them imho that I didn't hear with the A/D/S amp and found a little harsh with the MB Quart amps, that being said I love Rockford Fosgate for their bulletproof designs.

Now getting back to the amp, as I was taking it out of the box and flipping it around a couple of times I noticed a strange thing. The PCB of the amp is slightly to long for the heat sink cover of the amp on one end. Meaning the end plate actually sits approx 1-2mm away from the heat sink. I later discovered this was compensated for by adding four washer under the four corner screws to at least make everything look flat and not bowed. I mentioned this earlier, and while it's a little puzzling doesn't bother me all that much as the amp will be hidden away in the trunk. This brings me to my next point about the efficiency of the amp, as I was in the process of listening to the amp I went for about an hour drive to check out some Klipsch RF-62 speakers a dude had for sale. I figured I would kill two birds with one stone. I had the amp on the entire way at least 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up and when I arrived at the guys house and opened the trunk, the amp was barely warm to the touch. Some of the previous amps I had mentioned I would have been frying bacon and eggs at this point. I ended up buying the speakers as they were such a good deal I couldn't resist to come closer to finalizing my HT setup. He asked to listen to my system and I obliged him as we just spent 45 minutes talking about the Klipsch speakers I has bought from him. He spent about 30 minutes sitting in my car listening to the system song after song to the point it became a little weird, lol. He couldn't believe how great it sounded and said to me "honestly dude this sounds better than the Klipsch you just bought from me", lol I couldn't stop laughing and said does that mean you'll give me another $100 off? He replied by leaving the car and I was on my way back home. Check out the pictures of the area of the end plate I was trying to describe. Thx for looking and sorry for the long winded "review" if that's what you want to call it, just some personal opinions and observations of an amp that is not perfect but better value, more efficient , and more powerful than anything on the market imho.


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## bkjay

Glad you like the amp. The only thing that gets to me is that popping. Blowing tweeters is not cool. Why only on first start up? Strange


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## vactor

i really need a 3 channel (or 6 channel) amp for my next planned setup. i was going to probably get one of these Leviathans, but i'm quite perturbed by the build issues (things being the wrong size to fit) as well as the turn on nosie that seems to have been experienced by people. it seems that the amp probably should be turned on initially without any speakerrs connected as maybe there's an issue with a discharge when the caps are originally charged when it's first powered up. i'm a bit torn. LOTS of small and efficient power is exactly what i want. damaged speakers and build issues i definitely do not. i must say that i am somewhat surprised that given Steve's history of designing amazing amplifiers that these issues have not been taken care of in the beta testing and first run. not sure what to do, but otherwise it seems to be exactly what i need to have as small efficient setup to use with a jbl ms-8 ...


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## dunnounme

Yeah the popping is kinda driving me crazy. 

My 1st unit blew both my tweeters, one highmid and distorted one midbass. These are 90-100w rms Seas Lotus Reference speakers, something which not many amps can blow. Even at less than 1/4 gain level. It's not the gain I figured, it's a freaking current surge!

Learnt my lesson, so my 2nd unit was hooked up to cheap paper speakers to test first. It gave me pop sounds on switching off, and switching on (went into protection mode sometimes). Looks like another current leak to me, which will throw it into protection mode.

3rd unit is still not tested yet. Still at the shop to be hooked up to cheap speakers.

I'm really disappointed at the QC of these amps before they were shipped out. I used to be on RF T600-4 and it gave me no problems whatsoever for 3 years. Decided to go for a 6ch to run 3 way active and this amp was not a good choice, not because it didn't perform or sound bad....but there's simply no QC to speak of.

No doubt they sound great, but what's the use? It's like buying a Ferarri that stalls on you all the time. Sure, it's a fantastic car when it's working, but to get from point A to B, you've gotta jump start 10 times.....


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## vrdublu

I called and talked to Steve about some of these issues. I was told the popping issue may have something to do with the HU's sending out multiple pulses for turn-on causing the pooping, I would imagine some kind of feed back. I was told there's a simple fix with a different resistor, also turning the HU off manually and not switched may help things. As it only happened to me on initial start up, I will probably leave things be. The end plate not fitting properly was unfortunate, I will agree with most that it should have been taken care of and it may very well be in future revisions of the amp. The thing is, there isn't anything else out there at this price that competes with it. The JL 900/5 is almost double the price, and outside of that there isn't anything else. I am seriously thinking of ordering the "Kronos" also and running a 13W7 instead of the 8W7. Having extra juice on hand makes me want to add a little more "ummpppphhh" to the system.


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## Boostedrex

vrdublu said:


> I called and talked to Steve about some of these issues. I was told the popping issue* may have something to do with the HU's sending out multiple pulses for turn-on* causing the pooping, I would imagine some kind of feed back. * I was told there's a simple fix with a different resistor, also turning the HU off manually and not switched may help things.* As it only happened to me on initial start up, I will probably leave things be. *The end plate not fitting properly* was unfortunate, I will agree with most that it should have been taken care of and it may very well be in future revisions of the amp. *The thing is, there isn't anything else out there at this price that competes with it.* The JL 900/5 is almost double the price, and outside of that there isn't anything else. I am seriously thinking of ordering the "Kronos" also and running a 13W7 instead of the 8W7. Having extra juice on hand makes me want to add a little more "ummpppphhh" to the system.


I've always been a big fan of Steven's work, but this is unacceptable to me. I have bolded the parts in your previous post that sit terribly wrong with me. If it "could be" a problem with some head units then why not apply the fix for those head units to all amps before shipping? It wouldn't hurt anything to be safe. And in no way should it be the customer's responsibility to fix a short coming with a NEW amp IMHO. 

The last thing I bolded didn't bother me, but I would suggest you do a little more searching first. There are other 6 channel amps on the market that can compete and/or best the Zed for the same or less money. Maybe not in sheer power output. But in fit&finish, quality of build, and reliability I can think of a couple right off the top of my head.

Either way, thank you for sharing your experiences with the forum. I have no doubt that the new Zed amps have potential. But Steven REALLY needs to get these problems sorted out before sending out more defective units to customers and possibly damaging their equipment. Just my .02 on the subject.

Zach


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## vrdublu

Boostedrex said:


> I've always been a big fan of Steven's work, but this is unacceptable to me. I have bolded the parts in your previous post that sit terribly wrong with me. If it "could be" a problem with some head units then why not apply the fix for those head units to all amps before shipping? It wouldn't hurt anything to be safe. And in no way should it be the customer's responsibility to fix a short coming with a NEW amp IMHO.
> 
> The last thing I bolded didn't bother me, but I would suggest you do a little more searching first. There are other 6 channel amps on the market that can compete and/or best the Zed for the same or less money. Maybe not in sheer power output. But in fit&finish, quality of build, and reliability I can think of a couple right off the top of my head.
> 
> Either way, thank you for sharing your experiences with the forum. I have no doubt that the new Zed amps have potential. But Steven REALLY needs to get these problems sorted out before sending out more defective units to customers and possibly damaging their equipment. Just my .02 on the subject.
> 
> Zach


I can't disagree with you on any point you made there in the least bit. I was simply repeating what I was told, please don't shoot the messanger, lol. One thing I may argue is the quality of build, that being maybe not the same as fit and finish which is definately in question here with this amp. The build quality is top notch imo, just look at the picture of the amp through the plexi. I realize that some have had a tough time with this amp and I agree they should not have had to pay out of their pocket for a product with short comings. The option some have decide to excersise is to return the amp and take the hit, the only justice that may arise out of this is the negative feedback that the amp gets, and rightfully so. I simply wanted to point out that the amp is of top notch quality sound wise and build quality is there, as fit and finish may not be along with other issues I and other people have reported. It appears to be a crap shoot right now as to what you get, I had one problem at the begining with no other issues atm, you have to be the one to determine if it's worth taking the chance, I guess. What other amps similar to this sell at this price point if you don't mind me asking? Thx.


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## Boostedrex

I think that build quality is suspect. If they were built correctly, there wouldn't be any need for "in the field fixes" by owners. You know? I know that Steven is MORE than capable of building top notch amps. I just don't feel that this model is one of them. And I do hope that you didn't take my post as an attack on you. It wasn't intended as such.

As for other amps I would buy before the Leviathan... I'd take the JL XD600/6, Arc KS900.6, and Zuki ELEETS 6 over it. Even the non-ELEETS version Zuki 6 channel was being offered for a while would beat out the Leviathan in my book. I'll take a cut in power for a more reliable product and one that doesn't have any fit & finish problems or QC issues.

I do hope that Steven gets these issues sorted though. The Leviathan and Kronos have a TON of potential and I hope that they'll start living up to it soon.


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## BKH

I have one of these arriving on the big brown truck today, after having it on order for over a MONTH.....
I have a feeling I should have went with my original plan and bought a JL 900-5. I would have been done three weeks ago and not had to worry if I was getting a good one or not.


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## Boostedrex

Just power it up to some old/used/cheap speakers first time out. And if you do get a good one, then it will be really good. Best of luck to you BKH.


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## DS-21

vrdublu said:


> The thing is, there isn't anything else out there at this price that competes with it. The JL 900/5 is almost double the price, and outside of that there isn't anything else.


While not technically one amp, two of those 120x4 Kenwoods (X4S) fit in a smaller footprint than one Leviathan, and offer potentially more power. And the 900/5 is considerably smaller than the Leviathan.


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## vrdublu

Boostedrex said:


> I think that build quality is suspect. If they were built correctly, there wouldn't be any need for "in the field fixes" by owners. You know? I know that Steven is MORE than capable of building top notch amps. I just don't feel that this model is one of them. And I do hope that you didn't take my post as an attack on you. It wasn't intended as such.
> 
> As for other amps I would buy before the Leviathan... I'd take the JL XD600/6, Arc KS900.6, and Zuki ELEETS 6 over it. Even the non-ELEETS version Zuki 6 channel was being offered for a while would beat out the Leviathan in my book. I'll take a cut in power for a more reliable product and one that doesn't have any fit & finish problems or QC issues.
> 
> I do hope that Steven gets these issues sorted though. The Leviathan and Kronos have a TON of potential and I hope that they'll start living up to it soon.


Again can't argue with you over any points you made as I'm a strong believer in QC as this is what I do for a living, sort of. No worries, I didn't take it as an attack at all, you made valid points, this is a forum and it's here for discussion. I looked at some of the amps you mentioned and the only ones that stand out for me are the Zuki amps as I have never even heard one, but certainly intrigued by them. I try to stay as neutral as I can when talking about audio in general as people tend to get very upset over their investments, but I do believe and agree with you that sending out "flawed" amps in one respect or another will only come back to bite you in the ass later. I also agree with you that a customer should not have to be responsible for fixing their own amp, nor should they have to eat the cost of sending it back especially if the problem is a known one. How do you go about telling someone how to run their business though? It's not anyone's place, and only time and reviews will sort the whole thing out, life is funny like that, call it the balance of life or Karma or whatever.


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## gtheilerjr

Response about amps today

Dear Gerald,

Thanks for your email. Thankfully all issues are now resolved.
We have been shipping many amplifiers with no problems reported.
Please let me know if you have any further questions and I would
be happy to answer.

I shall be at the factory from about 10.00 AM PST

805 526 5315


Regards


Steve Mantz


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## dunnounme

If it's not a design fault, then what I can say is the factory floor needs lots of supervision.


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## mSaLL150

Sorry to hear about the problems. I'm using some of Steve's amps that are over 10 years old and loving the sound from them. I'm sure once the bugs are worked out these new Zeds will be amazing too!


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## frmdrkside

I was very interested in this thread when it popped (no pun intended) up last night. I was going to keep our experience to myself but considering it is beginning to sound like a common issue, let me give you the back story of our experience with the Zed Leviathan.

Approximately 7 months ago we were contacted by a customer that was referred to us by the CDT Audio Tech Department. The customer stated that he had purchased one of the first production runs of Leviathan amplifiers, in addition to CDT HD-62 components, CL-69x, and an ES-1020 10: woofer. He had a shop in Northern California do the installation, and purchased an eclipse head unit (can’t remember model #) and an Audiocontrol DQT from them. The customer stated that he had experienced a pop in his system (within the first 24hours of having it) that blew all the speakers, all at once. He was suspicious of the installation as he also felt the overall SQ of the system was sub par when he picked up the vehicle. Being familiar with the CDT speakers I was skeptical about all of the speakers being damaged, as we’ve had almost no issues. In my mind, short of something catastrophic, there was no way to blow all the speakers in a car all at once, in an instant. He also stated that the amp had been tested and was still functioning, which only fueled my skepticism.


The vehicle arrived for us to check out and sure enough every speaker in the car except for the component tweeters was blown. Not just blown but they were frozen, welded in place in the gap. Having no idea what was going on in the car, and being shocked at what the customer said happened, speakers playing, starts the car, loud pop and all speakers are gone. We dove into the installation to find what could cause this unbelievable situation. WE FOUND NO SMOKING GUN. There were a couple minor things that perhaps should have been done differently, the gains where a little to high, and one thing that was a safety concern but no glaring mistake that could cause all the speakers to blow at once. The only viable explanation was some type of issue with the amp, causing an output surge of DC current. I also surmised the reason why the tweeters weren’t blown is the passive crossovers have DC protection circuits that would have absorbed enough of the DC pulse to spare them.

We replaced all the speakers in the vehicle and began testing the system. Sure enough we could get the amplifier to pop loudly and go into protection. There were several turn on or turn off sequences that we could go through and produce the pop and protection pretty consistently. We had the amplifier level very low so we had no issues with blowing speakers. Although in further testing later on, we discovered the gain level setting doesn't appear to affect the volume/output level of the pop. So we were just lucky.

We have spent several days, probably 30+ hours testing and trouble shooting this setup multiple times. The amp has been back to ZED at least 2 times. I’ve had a couple conversations with Mr. Mantz about it. I provided him an extremely detailed written step by step description of our testing procedure and the sequence we go through to consistently produce the popping sound. We’ve tried everything I could think of, as well as every suggestion Mr. Mantz has given us. New head unit, amplifier being powered from external source, no speakers connected to the amplifier outputs, turn on delay circuits, capacitor in case it was a result of voltage drop, only a single test speaker connected to amplifier, and more I’m surely forgetting. The only thing that ever fixed it, was putting a different amplifier in the vehicle. The other amps were connected to the same wiring, and in the exact same way as the Zed amplifier was. The signal and power paths were exactly the same, 2 weeks in the vehicle, used daily, no pops. Pretty cut and dry in my mind.

This was all discussed with Mr. Mantz when the amp went back the last time about 2 months ago. He said he was going to change the “resistor value” as mentioned in an above post. We received the amplifier back and guess what, still pops, and I think it actually seemed to be worse. You didn’t have to do anything special or with the right timing, just turn on and pop. Needless to say the customer and I were very disappointed. I did not call Mr. Mantz and tell him this did not work, the customer has wasted so much time on this situation he felt it was time to cut his losses. So I hope Mr. Mantz is not basing this resistor fix on the assumption that it fixed our problem. It surely didn’t, but a TRU Technology S45 will. 

Also, just a side note, in my conversations with Mr. Mantz he said he had not had anyone else complain of popping issues with this amp. He said if there was a design problem there would be others having issues.

For what it’s worth, thought I’d share the info.


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## dunnounme

So the same question still applies, where's the QC and what was done to check the amps before they were shipped out or returned to the owners?

From my experience with the two Leviathans I've tested, the popping is very obvious and easily re-created, ie, it doesn't pop 1 out of 100 times, it pops 100 out of 100 times!

Don't tell me their standard testing procedure is, power up, there's light and out it goes? If they were to connect speakers to the amp, they'll easily hear the pops.


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## dunnounme

frmdrkside said:


> Also, just a side note, in my conversations with Mr. Mantz he said he had not had anyone else complain of popping issues with this amp. He said if there was a design problem there would be others having issues.


That's not true. Out of the 10 amps we bought, 5 of them have pop issues, and we have emailed him about this problem at least 2 months ago.


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## flytomars

frmdrkside said:


> Also, just a side note, in my conversations with Mr. Mantz he said he had not had anyone else complain of popping issues with this amp. He said if there was a design problem there would be others having issues.


I dont wish to be adding fuel to this fire, but I also burned 2 speakers already with my leviathan (right now working with a different Zed - Nakamichi on same installation and no problems whatsoever).
I also read at least 2 more threads in different forums claiming the leviathan burned their speakers.
Also - speaker was burned badly, melted into one piece as described above.
Recently I got a message from Steve to replace the resistor reponsible for the startup delay - I understand this has no effect on the problem?  
I have sent the amp to a local lab, hopefully they will find the root cause for this and be able to fix it... 
I am becoming desperate with this amp, it will cost me 100$ to send it back for a refund, + it sounded so sweet on the short period that it was working...
(The pop comes every 4-5 turn ons in my amp).

Edit: the 2 speakers burnt were both on channel 1 only - first time I burned my Hertz speaker, second time I plugged the speaker that came with the car, again it took about 4 turn ons to burn the speaker into molten plastic, and again only on channel 1 (luckily tweeter was protected by crossover)


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## jimbno1

I was always wary of the Leviathan since of turn on pops were reported from the initial release. I really feel for you guys who have damaged speakers.


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## Boostedrex

I know Steven is a member of this forum. I hope that he's reading this thread and that QC will get tightened up at Zed Audio. This is simply NOT acceptable. Especially from someone with his history in this industry!


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## BKH

Got mine yesterday. The end plate is spaced out with washers like the OP's. Leaving for work tonight so probably won't have time to power it up until I get home next week. The curiosity is killing me, I may have to throw it on the bench and run it from an ipod just to see if it pops....

Better not throw away the box for a while.


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## frmdrkside

flytomars said:


> Edit: the 2 speakers burnt were both on channel 1 only - first time I burned my Hertz speaker, second time I plugged the speaker that came with the car, again it took about 4 turn ons to burn the speaker into molten plastic, and again only on channel 1 (luckily tweeter was protected by crossover)


That's something I forgot to mention in my OP, but our testing found that when a speaker is connected to either of the front 1 or 2 channel the pop is much more severe than when speakers are only connected to the 3-6 channels. Channels 3-6 will produce a pop no matter what, but when anything is connected to either 1-2 channel it's much worse.


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## frmdrkside

BKH said:


> The curiosity is killing me, I may have to throw it on the bench and run it from an ipod just to see if it pops....
> 
> Better not throw away the box for a while.


The popping only occured for us when the amp is turning on or off. It will sit on a test bench and play for hours straight with no problems.


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## katodevin

Boostedrex said:


> I know Steven is a member of this forum. I hope that he's reading this thread and that QC will get tightened up at Zed Audio. This is simply NOT acceptable. Especially from someone with his history in this industry!


I really agree. I wish there would be some kind of communication from him regarding this, addressing it as a design flaw, an assembly flaw, or any info. I think that if it was addressed as an issue that is now receiving specific attention, people would feel much less wary about playing Russian roulette when buying a new Leviathan. 

Huge companies such as Intel and Seagate have released products that destroyed their customer's data, on SSD's and hard drives. They have owned up to it, and have released updates that prevent this from happening. Life goes on. I think that silence in this case is the worst thing, as it just leaves everyone wondering and guessing as to the root cause.


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## vrdublu

katodevin said:


> I really agree. I wish there would be some kind of communication from him regarding this, addressing it as a design flaw, an assembly flaw, or any info. I think that if it was addressed as an issue that is now receiving specific attention, people would feel much less wary about playing Russian roulette when buying a new Leviathan.
> 
> Huge companies such as Intel and Seagate have released products that destroyed their customer's data, on SSD's and hard drives. They have owned up to it, and have released updates that prevent this from happening. Life goes on. I think that silence in this case is the worst thing, as it just leaves everyone wondering and guessing as to the root cause.


From my conversations with Steve, he truly believes there is no issue with this as it doesn't happen with every amp. Therefore this leads me to a conclusion that during assembly something is going on as the design of the amp is rediculously good imo, if you look at the specs there's nothing else like it. Being silent about it probably doesn't help the community either, but Steve doesn't come across as a "liar" to me, quite the opposite actually, one of the nicest and most sincere people I have talked to in a while. There's no doubt that if this popping situation is not acknowledged, resolved and put to bed, it will cost Zed audio in the end.


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## katodevin

I didn't mean to insinuate that Steve is a liar at all. I feel that he is acutally one of the most thoughtful and honest people in the business. I agree that he feels that there is no issue with his amplifiers. I also feel that on paper, the Leviathan is one of the absolute best amplifier options, bar none.

However, just because this popping issue does not happen with every amp does not mean that there is not an issue. Even if the issue rate is ~ 5%, I think there is HEAVY reason to conduct an extremely indepth investigation.

He does seem to be repairing these problematic amps as they are returned to him, so there is obviously some sort of location/component/etc that can be causing this. I think that communicating that this has been identified and will be remedied in upcoming units really needs to be done.


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## flytomars

katodevin said:


> He does seem to be repairing these problematic amps


Thats new to me - 
I dont think he fixed any amp with the popping / DC problem,
I got an email from him exactly a week ago saying he is trying to duplicate my problem, and to give him a few days.
Next contact from him was via a friend, and I was told to increase the resistor in charge of the amp turn on delay (which I understand from this thread is futile?)
What I do find strange, is that most of the problematic DC amps are from the first batch* (I think - this should be worth checking out) - so something did change, question is - what? I am not sure Steve himself knows yet.

* My serial - #L10090234
It would be interesting to compare...


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## vactor

i wanted one of the BADLY as it would be perfect to run a 3 speaker front stage with a jbl ms8. but based on the issues i read about, i decided that until it really DOES get ironed out, the safer bet was an old 6 channel lanzar optidrive from ebay. ... i'll get a Lev when it's been sorted tho ...


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## Luke352

I changed the resistor in mine to the suggested value listed in a PDF he sent and it greatly reduced the POP from every few starts to maybe one in twenty. But I am wondering how some people are blowing speakers with it, mine did it for months before I contacted steve about it because I thought it was a result of a problem caused by a rushed temporary install and yet I haven't damaged any speakers. But I always turn the stereo down before I turn off the car, but I guess if you turn off with the volume blaring and then turn it back on then you may get a very big pop that could cause damage. Steve has said though I can put a larger value resistor in up to 220kohm (120kohm fitted currently) so I think since the problem is pretty rare now once I change it to a 200kohm the problem should be rectified. The change once I get the soldering iron out only takes about 30secs to do.

From what I gathered the problem is caused by the amp turning on to quickly so it ends up seeing the small burst of signal that most HU's output on turn on especially when starting your car when you cycle the HU trigger on, off, on. So if you delay the start up of the amp the amp shouldn't see this signal and hopefully won't get the burst of DC and engage the protection circuit.


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## flytomars

Luke352 said:


> ...
> but I guess if you turn off with the volume blaring and then turn it back on then you may get a very big pop that could cause damage.
> ...
> 
> From what I gathered the problem is caused by the amp turning on to quickly so it ends up seeing the small burst of signal that most HU's output on turn on especially when starting your car when you cycle the HU trigger on, off, on.


First issue - no, the DC was sent when volume was very low (I usually turn it low before I put it off, and the second time I am 200% sure this was the case as once it happened once I was even more paranoid than usual).
Second issue - my HU is detachable, I put it on only after ignition, so there is no on / off / on cycle. Also - it doesnt happen with any other amp on very long trial on same installation (I used SRX4.1 for a week and Nakamichi PA-504 for a few months now - no pop, not even a hint of pop).
And lastly - I have seen amps that make a pop (not in car audio but still), and never seen a pop like this - the lights were dimmed when this happened, it was like plugging my speaker straight to the car battery!

By the way - Steve has been very fair with me and offered to fix the amp + pay shippment for it there and back (about 200$ worth). I cannot send the amp as I will be charged customs for it (about 300$) + I dont have a gurantee that the problem will be fixed- 
A friend of mine took this offer and sent 2 amps with the noise issue, and they came back with the same problem + a new problem (amp gets into protection mode every few times). So sending it back does not seem a good idea for me.
I have put the amp in a local lab and hope for the best :blank:


----------



## dunnounme

Luke352 said:


> But I always turn the stereo down before I turn off the car, but I guess if you turn off with the volume blaring and then turn it back on then you may get a very big pop that could cause damage.
> 
> From what I gathered the problem is caused by the amp turning on to quickly so it ends up seeing the small burst of signal that most HU's output on turn on especially when starting your car when you cycle the HU trigger on, off, on. So if you delay the start up of the amp the amp shouldn't see this signal and hopefully won't get the burst of DC and engage the protection circuit.


My speakers were blown at less than 1/4 gain and zero volume. I drive a VW Passat and the integrated HU doesn't really go off when I switch it off. It goes into standby mode and only goes off when I switch off the engine. I'll "off" the HU, ie, switch to 0 volume and press the power switch, and it goes into standby mode, everytime before I off the engine. This has become a habit for me.

Well, I blew my tweeters (very loud pop sound) just by starting the engine, the HU is not even switched on yet....that's how great this amp is...


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## rugdnit

I have serial number #L9100229 -- I had only temp installed both my Kronos and Leviathan. I am very happy with the SQ and Power of these amps. I have not encountered the turn on pop, but truthfully due to only listening under temp install listening conditions I would have not had full listening time to have encountered this. I have not encountered the problem with the few times I have turned the ign on while it was installed. I wonder how many guys are in the same boat where perhaps the amps have been sitting in the box waiting for the new install and have not yet encountered this problem therefore leading leading Steve to believe that this is isolated or not a problem? I have never had anything but great interaction with Steve and due to my experience with him I have defended him, but this should be cleared up.... otherwise the speculation can run wild. My experience has always been to take these kinds of things up with the mfg directly since things turn to **** storms so fast on forums. When kept civil the forums can be a great resource for everyone-- including mfgs. Like someone had mentioned before it must something going on in the assembly line that Steve does not have his hands on or is aware of. In any case I hope this all gets cleared up and that those parties affected are taken care of.


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## jimbno1

The problem with only taking things up with the mfg directly is others who could benefit from your experience never know there is an issue until they buy the product and experience it for themselves. Since these same mfgs benefit from positive feedback on forums (see Arc Audio, Tru, HAT, etc), I feel it is fair to air the "dirty laundry" here also.


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## 70 chevelle

rugdnit said:


> I have serial number #L9100229 -- I had only temp installed both my Kronos and Leviathan. I am very happy with the SQ and Power of these amps. I have not encountered the turn on pop, but truthfully due to only listening under temp install listening conditions I would have not had full listening time to have encountered this. I have not encountered the problem with the few times I have turned the ign on while it was installed. I wonder how many guys are in the same boat where perhaps the amps have been sitting in the box waiting for the new install and have not yet encountered this problem therefore leading leading Steve to believe that this is isolated or not a problem? I have never had anything but great interaction with Steve and due to my experience with him I have defended him, but this should be cleared up.... otherwise the speculation can run wild. My experience has always been to take these kinds of things up with the mfg directly since things turn to **** storms so fast on forums. When kept civil the forums can be a great resource for everyone-- including mfgs. Like someone had mentioned before it must something going on in the assembly line that Steve does not have his hands on or is aware of. In any case I hope this all gets cleared up and that those parties affected are taken care of.


I have serial number 231 and sent the amp in this past Monday. He should get the amp this Monday the 10th. I am a little surprised that everyone pops have been so violent. I installed mine the day I received it and it's so minor on mine I just sent it back in now. I would not even describe it as a pop on mine , it was more of a click. It would only happen if I shut the head unit down vs. turing the ignition off with the headunit still on. It did not happen every time I cycled the head unit , mabye 1 in 5 times. He said it's a one day turn around so I should have it back sometime next week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I have to admit he's been very easy to deal with to this point . Very cooperative


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## JayBee

I have one in the "classifieds" that i have never powered on... i think i may take it to get it benched just to make sure that i'm not selling one that has an issue.


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## rommelrommel

These amps have had SO many fricking reported problems that it's ridiculous. 

End caps shimmed with washers because the board it is too long? Resistors clipped? Jumpers that look like paperclips soldered on? Solder blobs that look like a monkey did the "post production modifications?" Excuse my french, but WHAT THE ****? I would lose my mind if a brand new from the manufacturer item showed up with the amount of jury rigging that these amps have had.


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## Boostedrex

rommelrommel said:


> These amps have had SO many fricking reported problems that it's ridiculous.
> 
> End caps shimmed with washers because the board it is too long? Resistors clipped? Jumpers that look like paperclips soldered on? Solder blobs that look like a monkey did the "post production modifications?" Excuse my french, but WHAT THE ****? I would lose my mind if a brand new from the manufacturer item showed up with the amount of jury rigging that these amps have had.


I couldn't agree more! It's sad that this is going on with such a reputable builder.


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## rommelrommel

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...68939-where-zed-leviathan-kronos-reviews.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-product-reviews/76913-satisfaction-mr-steve-mantz.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/81012-attn-stephen-mantz.html

For those unfamiliar with the saga... there are other posts on other boards about these problems and more with Zed/Mantz but I would consider these reputable, recent, and relevant. 


I think it's sad that this has happened but I get the feeling that Zed/Mantz overstepped their ability/resources in trying to create these amps at this price point. They are simply under tested/designed and have marginal QC. The cheap fixes suggest to me that Zed/Mantz simply cannot afford to fix them properly. Sadly, his reputation is all he's got as a niche manufacturer and that's getting pissed away.


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## rugdnit

Just a follow up to my previous post since I installed the Leviathan in my other car today. I cycled the amp over 40 times and did not have any " pop " issues whatsoever. I just want to reiterate that I hope all ends well for all the affected buyers.


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## dunnounme

rugdnit said:


> Just a follow up to my previous post since I installed the Leviathan in my other car today. I cycled the amp over 40 times and did not have any " pop " issues whatsoever. I just want to reiterate that I hope all ends well for all the affected buyers.


Just curious which batch was it? What's the serial number?


----------



## Boostedrex

rugdnit said:


> Just a follow up to my previous post since I installed the Leviathan in my other car today. I cycled the amp over 40 times and did not have any " pop " issues whatsoever. I just want to reiterate that I hope all ends well for all the affected buyers.


I'm very glad to hear that your amp doesn't seem to be one of the "problem amps." I hope that it continues to provide you with years of quality sound.


----------



## rugdnit

dunnounme said:


> Just curious which batch was it? What's the serial number?


Scroll up a little higher to my previous post.


----------



## Lanson

I just want to see pics of the melted speakers, and who wants to own up to replacing them.


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## sloanie

I bought one of these amps back at the end of February and it's been sitting in the box since then as I'm still waiting on, of all things, a DASH KIT from Metra to be released (thought it was available when I started ordering parts only to later find out the web sites listing the kit didn't actually have them, nor were they even in production yet). 

I came here today looking for other information but saw this thread on the Leviathan and I'm glad I read it. I certainly do *not* want to blow the speakers I bought for my system. 

Being a newb to aftermarket car audio, how should I go about testing this before having it installed / connected to the speakers I want to use? I understand that it needs to be connected to some cheaper speakers just to see if the pop blows the speakers. 

Also I have a question about this issue. It sounds like there's a common "popping" sound that's not damaging speakers, and then another, louder pop where speakers are getting fried. The original post on this thread leads me to believe that this destructive pop only occurs the first time the amp is fired up after install... or is it a recurring issue that would continually fry new speakers?


----------



## matdotcom2000

I wonder is it just the initial turn on. Because anytime I initially turn any amp on no speakers are attached....


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## flytomars

fourthmeal said:


> I just want to see pics of the melted speakers, and who wants to own up to replacing them.



Well, melted was not a good choice of words from me, frozen is more like it.
You cant see anything in a picture, it is just stuck- 
membrane cannot move at all.
Too bad smells cant go thru the net, the speaker still smells like burned plastic


----------



## dunnounme

sloanie said:


> The original post on this thread leads me to believe that this destructive pop only occurs the first time the amp is fired up after install... or is it a recurring issue that would continually fry new speakers?


For my case, it wasn't a first time destructive pop. It fried my speakers after using it for a day. There wasn't any pop sound initially, but I heard some distortion from my midbass. The pop came on the 2nd day and when it came, it fried my speakers, no warning, ie, prior pop sounds.

The fried speakers had stiff cones, stuck and sounded "crispy" when I pressed on the cones. Can't tell for the tweeters as they are in the housing, but all fried speakers/tweeters smelt burnt.


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## bafukie

^bro... its sad to see ur speakers gone up the smokes just like tat.. hopefully things will just get better with the ongoing feedbacks


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## vactor

yeah, a high current surge will fry pretty much any speaker in short order. this is a problem that should definitely never happen in audio amplifiers made in the last 20 years. i am surprised that the design / assembly has not been gone over with a fine tooth comb to find not only the culprit, but _any_ possible reason that MORE THAN ONE person has had a problem like this. again, steve is known for decades of he highest quality stuff! even if he disagrees and thinks the error rate is small or it's user error, he should be able to track down ANY potential issues, rectify them in a new(er) design and also post here to assuge our trepidations and keep his superlative reputation


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## sloanie

dunnounme said:


> For my case, it wasn't a first time destructive pop. It fried my speakers after using it for a day. There wasn't any pop sound initially, but I heard some distortion from my midbass. The pop came on the 2nd day and when it came, it fried my speakers, no warning, ie, prior pop sounds.
> 
> The fried speakers had stiff cones, stuck and sounded "crispy" when I pressed on the cones. Can't tell for the tweeters as they are in the housing, but all fried speakers/tweeters smelt burnt.


So for you there was no way to know / prevent it, huh? Ouch. It sounds like a roll of the dice either way. How were you running the amp (how many channels)? How many times had you started / stopped your car by the time it happened on the second day?

Means my only truly safe bet is to just return the amp. That's disappointing, it sounds like the trouble-free ones provide excellent value / performance.


----------



## flytomars

sloanie said:


> How were you running the amp (how many channels)?


I ran 4 channels, in flat mode (This could be a very important factor...)
The first time it happend it was after about 4 ignitions, the second time could be about 5.


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## sloanie

My serial # is L10090289. I'm going to see if I can have some tests done on it... Wish I wasn't such a noob to car audio.

Local installer says they'll test it on a test bench. Will that be sufficient to find out if there are any issues?


----------



## sloanie

flytomars said:


> I ran 4 channels, in flat mode (This could be a very important factor...)
> The first time it happend it was after about 4 ignitions, the second time could be about 5.


Out of curiosity, what load where you running those channels on? 2 ohms or 4?


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## flytomars

sloanie said:


> Out of curiosity, what load where you running those channels on? 2 ohms or 4?


4 ohm, not bridged.
I am starting to think that the most important detail is that I ran it in flat mode - other modes offer a subsonic filter which would most probably filter out any unwanted DC...


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## dunnounme

sloanie said:


> So for you there was no way to know / prevent it, huh? Ouch. It sounds like a roll of the dice either way. How were you running the amp (how many channels)? How many times had you started / stopped your car by the time it happened on the second day?
> 
> Means my only truly safe bet is to just return the amp. That's disappointing, it sounds like the trouble-free ones provide excellent value / performance.


I was running all 6 channels on a 3 way active setup. 

The very first thing I noticed was some slight distortion coming from the left midbass when I cranked up the volume, Thought it was some vibrating panel from the install so did not put much focus to it. It turned out to be a permanent distortion by the current surge when I took them out and tested them on the demo board after removing all my fried speakers.

Next, one highmid was fried first, couldn't remember if there was a pop sound. I mount my tweeters and speakers all in the door panels with stock grills, so I can't access them directly. Only noticed it when I heard a shift in my sound stage that the left mid was not playing. Put my nose to the grill and it smelt burnt.

Thought my gain was too high, so turned all down from half way mark to less than 1/4 mark. Played it on 2 way for a while and everything seemed fine. Did some re-tuning. 

Went home and parked the car for a while, The next time I started the car, there was a loud pop from my right tweeter. Thought it was the re-known pop issue of this amp, but later realised the right tweeter had no sound when I switched on the HU. Immediately switched off the HU and drove down to the install shop to remove the amp. On my way there, I wanted to confirm if my right tweeter was gone, I switched on the HU again while driving and pop goes the left tweeter as well....and I went ****....that's it....all my 3 way are gone...

Went down the the install shop, changed a set of used 2 way component, removed the Leviathan, put in a cheap 4ch made-in-China amp, and everything has been playing wonderfully for the past 2 months. So it's confirmed not a problem with the install.

There are only 2 possible things that's not right. It's either the design of the amp or the production line has a serious quality problem. On the other hand, if changing resistors with different values and re-directing signal paths solves the problem, isn't that more of a design issue?


----------



## sloanie

dunnounme said:


> I was running all 6 channels on a 3 way active setup.
> 
> The very first thing I noticed was some slight distortion coming from the left midbass when I cranked up the volume, Thought it was some vibrating panel from the install so did not put much focus to it. It turned out to be a permanent distortion by the current surge when I took them out and tested them on the demo board after removing all my fried speakers.
> 
> Next, one highmid was fried first, couldn't remember if there was a pop sound. I mount my tweeters and speakers all in the door panels with stock grills, so I can't access them directly. Only noticed it when I heard a shift in my sound stage that the left mid was not playing. Put my nose to the grill and it smelt burnt.
> 
> Thought my gain was too high, so turned all down from half way mark to less than 1/4 mark. Played it on 2 way for a while and everything seemed fine. Did some re-tuning.
> 
> Went home and parked the car for a while, The next time I started the car, there was a loud pop from my right tweeter. Thought it was the re-known pop issue of this amp, but later realised the right tweeter had no sound when I switched on the HU. Immediately switched off the HU and drove down to the install shop to remove the amp. On my way there, I wanted to confirm if my right tweeter was gone, I switched on the HU again while driving and pop goes the left tweeter as well....and I went ****....that's it....all my 3 way are gone...


So it even popped (surged) when the car was already started, simply by turning the HU on? Good hell, man. Seems like the amp power up delay might actually do something there.


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## dunnounme

sloanie said:


> So it even popped (surged) when the car was already started, simply by turning the HU on? Good hell, man. Seems like the amp power up delay might actually do something there.


Yeah, my right tweeter was fried when I started the car without me switching on the HU. The left tweeter was fried when I switched off the HU and switched it back on about 10 minutes later while driving.


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## vactor

ot: the gain knob is NOT A VOLUME CONTROL!!! </rant>


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## ntimd8n-k5

I finally got my Leviathans installed, I have two, one running left and one right, and have a pop on issue with one amp and not with the other. It does not do it every time, I have probably cycled it on and off 25 times and it has happened 3 times. First time it happened the amp went into protection and i was afraid something got fried, but turned the car on and back off and everything was fine.....


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## vrdublu

Interesting !! Maybe everyone that has one can list their Serial #'s so we can try to figure out if it's a batch or just really bad QC, or whatever........it's a start. Mine is* L10090304*, been running mine for what a week+ and no pop since initial turn on. I've had it on & off maybe 50 times.


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## sloanie

I just got a response from Stephen at Zed Audio, seems he's identified the problem, and I've been instructed not to install my amp. Says he'll be posting here later so I'll let him explain. good to know!


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## dunnounme

Let's hope he can come in here to explain to all those who are affectred.


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## flytomars

sloanie said:


> I just got a response from Stephen at Zed Audio, seems he's identified the problem, and I've been instructed not to install my amp. Says he'll be posting here later so I'll let him explain. good to know!


That is great news!!
I do hope it is a different solution to changing the delay resistor as that doesnt solve the problem (as seen previously on this thread).
I wonder if some of the information we shared here helped nail the problem...
oooh I cant wait to have my Leviathan running again  sweetness!


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## STEPHENM

To all of our customers and prospective new customers. Zed has been hard at work trying to find the solution to this popping issue. Well the good news is that we have found the cure. Here is what has transpired. I offer this in good faith and with 100% transparency.

The class D high side low side driver chip is the issue. The chip itself is faulty. Based on the number of reports which we have received back from the field, this problem occurs in about 2-3% of amplifiers. This figure is unacceptable to Zed and of course to our customers.

We were sent an application note from the chip manufacturer about this issue as I had been pressing them for many weeks to find a solution. My design is solid but unfortunately I do not have control of what goes on inside the IC chip. They told me, just like a politician, that the chip we are using is "not approved for new designs", meaning simply that the chip has issues.

This past Tuesday a package arrived with a reel of 2,500 of the new generation of chips, free, gratis. They obviously are aware and are stepping up to the plate by supplying Zed, and I presume their other OEM customers with free replacement chips.

I know that this is no small comfort to those of you who are experiencing this issue, but we did not pick this up in testing. Each amplifier spends about 1 hour in total in various tests.

About 3 weeks ago when this issue came to a head, I spent considerable time testing and finally I got a few amps to misbehave. I changed out the chips with the new part and these amplifiers are now working without this pop issue.

Well Zed Audio is now stepping up to the plate. 

ANY CUSTOMER WHO HAS THE POPPING PROBLEM CAN RETURN THE AMPLIFIER TO ZED AUDIO (OUR ADDRESS IS ON OUR WEBSITE AT Zed Audio Corporation) AND THE AMPLIFIER SHALL BE MODIFIED FREE OF CHARGE. THE FREIGHT SHALL BE PAID BY ZED FOR BOTH INCOMING AND OUTGOING. 

Please make sure to include a copy of your freight receipt.

Once again we apologize for any inconvenience caused and trust that your faith in Zed and our products shall remain high.

Yours truly,


Stephen Mantz


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## flytomars

Hi Steve,
This is great news!
I contacted you privately to find a solution to my case (unfortunately I cant send the amp... I am sure we could sort things out in a way that will benefit us both)
Your taking responsibility and solution are fair and noble, chapeau!


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## Boostedrex

Steven,

Very glad to hear that you have identified the problem. And cheers to you for stepping up to take care of your customers. Good to see that Zed Audio is still doing what's right like they have done for so long. A big +1!

Cheers,

Zach


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## vactor

THAT'S the ticket!!! glad to hear Steve is the man we thought he was!! looks like i'll be getting the big L soon to go with my MS-8 !!


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## STEPHENM

To KATODEVIN,

I have been working on this issue non stop from when it first appeared. Unfortunately Murphy's law stepped in and we could not get amps to fault on the bench. We were unfortunately not looking at the same issue as our customers. 

The problem is only occurring in a small % of amps and it quite frankly foxed us for some time. 

To those who get much delight in bringing someone down, about whom you know not much.....well not much more to say.

it seems that many on this forum get their kicks in saying nasty things, ESPECIALLY when they do not have all the facts.

To those who have been patient, I thank you.

To those who post kinder words I thank you.

I do put my neck on the line in posting this but I shall also be honest.

The chip manufacturer owned up to the problem and to their credit sent us free over $7K worth of an updated version of the IC chip

Zed has owned up to the problem and we are doing everything possible to rectify the issue.

As a show of good faith we have offered to pay freight into and out of Zed to change any amplifiers which our customers wish to return for the chip change

I can do no more than this.

Steve Mantz


----------



## STEPHENM

I copy an email I have received. it would be nice if DIYMA had the same rules

For the most part here at Audio Junkies we've had an open commenting policy, and have allowed our users to say largely whatever they want on our site. Some users have taken advantage of this to hurl threatening and potentially libelous attacks against an individual, who has threatened legal action against the site unless all offending posts are removed. Audio Junkies takes this very seriously, and due to this situation, we can no longer afford this open policy. The following changes are taking place immediately:

Posts that insult this website, its authors, or other users will be removed. Posts written deliberately for the purpose of starting a "flame war" will be removed. Posts that are deemed excessively offensive or that contain threats against others will be removed, and the user account will be disabled.

We're happy to have your feedback on items we post. All we ask is that you be civil while you are here.


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## katodevin

Steve - I think that there are few on this board that appreciate your dedication to the industry and your customers more than I. I recall you making a special trip out to your shop a few days after Xmas to make sure I got an amp that I needed. You were on vacation, but made a special trip to meet up with me. 

You could have easily simply grabbed my money, tossed me the amp, and sent me on my way to get back to your vacation, but you took the time to talk to me about the design and features. This speaks volumes for the amount of care and attention that you put into your product and towards your customers.

I am glad that you've 1) found the issue, and 2) communicated it to the community. This is a mark of someone that stands behind their product and its quality. You mention that you put your, "neck on the line in posting this but I shall also be honest." I think that this path is a much more respectable one than most manufacturers would have taken. I could see many manufacturers simply denying any problem, requesting those with problems to send the amps back to them, secretly fixing them, then blaming user error and charging a service fee. I am glad that you are above this.

I side with you against those who "get much delight in bringing someone down." The internet is a powerful place, and can do huge amounts of damage to small manufacturers that aren't blasting their product through Best Buy. I think the best way to deal with these trolls is exactly the way you have just done - with fact. I have had issues with different product in the past (not yours specifically) from smaller specialized companies, and I have made it a firm point to NOT call these companies out in a public forum. I realize that my experiences may be in NO WAY indicative of the actual product and that negative attention in a public forum could dramatically skew public perception of the product. I pride myself on this, and wish others would do so as well. 

Anyways, off of the soap box - kudos to you, I think you've proven to the community where you've gotten your good reputation from, and I hope it continues to be stellar in the future.


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## jimmyjames16

Hey Steve.. thanks... that is a class act. Sh$$t happens when your a designer.. and its sooo easy to get flamed on. Regardless of faulty chip or not... I will still continue to buy amps and service my older PPI's from you.


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## BKH

Well, Guess I got lucky! Got mine installed today, have cycled it on-off about 20 or so times at least without any issues. Still got lots of tuning to do, but it sure looks promising! Seems like it's making tons of power. The only complaint, and it's a minor one, is the crazy long turn on delay. It's a good 7 or 8 seconds. 
Brian


----------



## xjarhead1964

BKH said:


> Well, Guess I got lucky! Got mine installed today, have cycled it on-off about 20 or so times at least without any issues. Still got lots of tuning to do, but it sure looks promising! Seems like it's making tons of power. The only complaint, and it's a minor one, is the crazy long turn on delay. It's a good 7 or 8 seconds.
> Brian


Is there a review coming?

Dave


----------



## BKH

xjarhead1964 said:


> Is there a review coming?
> 
> Dave


Sure, let me tune on it a little this afternoon, then I'll post.


----------



## jimbno1

katodevin said:


> Steve - I think that there are few on this board that appreciate your dedication to the industry and your customers more than I. I recall you making a special trip out to your shop a few days after Xmas to make sure I got an amp that I needed. You were on vacation, but made a special trip to meet up with me.
> 
> You could have easily simply grabbed my money, tossed me the amp, and sent me on my way to get back to your vacation, but you took the time to talk to me about the design and features. This speaks volumes for the amount of care and attention that you put into your product and towards your customers.
> 
> I am glad that you've 1) found the issue, and 2) communicated it to the community. This is a mark of someone that stands behind their product and its quality. You mention that you put your, "neck on the line in posting this but I shall also be honest." I think that this path is a much more respectable one than most manufacturers would have taken. I could see many manufacturers simply denying any problem, requesting those with problems to send the amps back to them, secretly fixing them, then blaming user error and charging a service fee. I am glad that you are above this.
> 
> I side with you against those who "get much delight in bringing someone down." The internet is a powerful place, and can do huge amounts of damage to small manufacturers that aren't blasting their product through Best Buy. I think the best way to deal with these trolls is exactly the way you have just done - with fact. I have had issues with different product in the past (not yours specifically) from smaller specialized companies, and I have made it a firm point to NOT call these companies out in a public forum. I realize that my experiences may be in NO WAY indicative of the actual product and that negative attention in a public forum could dramatically skew public perception of the product. I pride myself on this, and wish others would do so as well.
> 
> Anyways, off of the soap box - kudos to you, I think you've proven to the community where you've gotten your good reputation from, and I hope it continues to be stellar in the future.


I have to take exception with this. As I stated in an earlier post these small manufacturers are benefitting from good internet chatter on these forums. Therefore they should be ready to take the good and the bad feedback as long as it is accurate. In this case the posters reporting the problem were correct by Steve's own admission. And to call someone a Troll who posts their negative experiences with a product is no more fair than someone who posts false accusations. 

I have talked with Steve several times on the phone and he has been up front with me every time. I had some ESX amps I was concerned about just because of their age. He could have just asked me to send them to replace the caps but he informed me he did not think it necessary unless there were performance issues. He saved me some money and passed up the oppportunity to make some easy cash. This shows his integrity. 

But to be perfectly honest paying shipping to repair the faulty amps is only fair in this case. And if I was one of the people who has fried speakers due to the defect in the Leviathan, it would be small comfort. 

As I stated before I am really glad I the posters exposed the popping issue. I would have bought a Leviathan if it were not for those individuals. And if I had purchased the Leviathan and it fried $1k+ of my speakers frankly I would be mad as hell.


----------



## xjarhead1964

Cool thanks.

Dave


----------



## BKH

Well, the Leviathan seems like a winner. I am running a 3 way actve setup, Pioneer TS-D1720 components on channels 1-4 and a JL 13TW5 bridged on 5 & 6. Controlled with a Pioneer AVH 4200. It pushes the sub very nice. A good kick drum will cross your eyes. Way more power than needed for the mids and highs but that just means it doesn't have to work as hard. It went into protect mode on the first start up but has been fine since. I wish I could go on and on about how it sounds, but now with the new system I realized that about 95% of what's on my iPod sounds like total garbage.


----------



## sloanie

BKH said:


> Well, the Leviathan seems like a winner. I am running a 3 way actve setup, Pioneer TS-D1720 components on channels 1-4 and a JL 13TW5 bridged on 5 & 6. Controlled with a Pioneer AVH 4200. It pushes the sub very nice. A good kick drum will cross your eyes. Way more power than needed for the mids and highs but that just means it doesn't have to work as hard. It went into protect mode on the first start up but has been fine since. I wish I could go on and on about how it sounds, but now with the new system I realized that about 95% of what's on my iPod sounds like total garbage.


Awesome. Yeah I plan on going back and re-ripping a lot of my catalog in a lossless format (currently only orchestral and choral music is ripped lossless.)

Just waiting now for my updated amp to be shipped back and I'll be kissing the world of stock Bose systems goodbye!


----------



## xjarhead1964

Thanks for the review. 

Dave


----------



## BKH

Well FML, After about a week of using it, I have had it pop twice, both times it was (luckily) at low volume while powering up, then immediately goes into protect. Cycle power on the HU and it comes back on no problem. On the bright side It's a hell of an amp! Hate to be without it while it's getting repaired...
Brian


----------



## sloanie

BKH said:


> Well FML, After about a week of using it, I have had it pop twice, both times it was (luckily) at low volume while powering up, then immediately goes into protect. Cycle power on the HU and it comes back on no problem. On the bright side It's a hell of an amp! Hate to be without it while it's getting repaired...
> Brian


Let me know how that goes. I sent my amp back a couple weeks ago, still don't have it back. Might have to give Steve a call tomorrow and see if I can find out what's up, as I was led to believe it'd be fairly quick turn-around and my last couple emails have gone unanswered. If I find anything out I'll let you know.


----------



## BKH

Hmm, That's interesting. Looks like I'll wait until we see how a few of these "repairs" go before I stick my $600 in the mail.


----------



## sloanie

Alright, the amp showed up today (had a feeling it might). Install is scheduled for Friday, fingers crossed!


----------



## BKH

Good deal man! Keep us posted on how it turns out.


----------



## sloanie

will do. I don't really have anything to compare it against other than a stock bose system in my car-- I'm replacing the entire system from the HU to the wiring, amp, speakers, sub, etc. This will be my first aftermarket system-- I sure hope I appreciate it.


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## flytomars

Welp, it seems the endless saga has ended- Steve sent the parts, a local lab has replaced them (for a hefty sum), and now I am happy as fish  (is there such a phrase or was I listening too much to suppers ready?  )
Amp works great, no pop whatsoever, not even the slightest,
Only some strange high frequency noise on one channel upon startup but I understand there is a mod for it- it doesnt bother me at all at the moment so I will leave it be.
The sound is great, but like the fellow above me - I dont have much to compare it to, my previous amps were audison SRX4 (which I didnt like the sound at all, and was very weak with its 65 X4) and Nakamichi - PA500.4 which was excellent (much stronger with its 50X4 than the SRX - go figure, and sounds much sweeter).
The Leviathan obviously has more power, and more detailed - the transients are faster and tighter without sounding harsh, I just love it 
Now with the new chip installed, I definetaly recommend this amp, it is worth well above its 600$ price tag.


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## sloanie

Loving my Leviathan as well. Since the entire system is new all I can say is that the amp seems to have paired wonderfully with the speakers I put in (Dynaudio system 242 component system up front, some Focal coax's in the rear). No pops, and I have sound within a second or 2 of the HU starting up. (Still getting used to having a head unit that has to "boot up" on start).

Like I said... in terms of car stereos, all I've got to compare it to is a handful of factory Bose systems and this just punishes those systems so badly it's not even funny. Funny how the drives are no longer long enough for me, I can't get enough of this system. 

I have the itch to go back and re-rip a lot of music to lossless. Previously all my film scores, classical etc. were lossless, but not much else. 

For what it's worth, the people at the local car audio place I had install the amp were really impressed with it, especially for the price. They said they sell some pretty impressive amps, but nothing that even comes close to the Leviathan in terms of bang for the buck-- it's something they'd like to look into offering.


----------



## sloanie

flytomars said:


> Welp, it seems the endless saga has ended- Steve sent the parts, a local lab has replaced them (for a hefty sum), and now I am happy as fish  (is there such a phrase or was I listening too much to suppers ready?  )


I've heard the phrase "happy as a clam"... close enough  So was it at least cheaper to have the local lab replace the chip than to pay for shipping and customs? Glad to hear your amp is up and running like a champ!


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## flytomars

sloanie said:


> I've heard the phrase "happy as a clam"... close enough  So was it at least cheaper to have the local lab replace the chip than to pay for shipping and customs? Glad to hear your amp is up and running like a champ!


Yes, it turned out much cheaper-
Shippment is 100$ each direction + about 280$ tax upon return -
Even though Steve promised to pay shippment, it still would have cost more than the 130$ I paid for the lab (and I hate it when money is spent on unnecessary things like shipping, even when I am not the one who is paying  ).
Ah well, at least they did a fine job from the looks (and sounds) of it...


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## Heliarc

I've been following this drama for awhile and now that i see that it seems like the product is free from defect at this point I think I'm going to purchase one real soon. I'm going to run an all CDT speaker setup, including their new 10in cf woofer, hopefully this amp will compliment them well.

I personally dont like how some things were handled but frustration can get the best of all of us. Cant wait to hear what others have to say as well about their fixed amps.


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## Lanson

The closest match Ive come to beating a Leviathan is a pair of X4R Kenwoods. The ones w/ DSP. That's a pretty close match for about 1/3 the price point less.


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## Heliarc

Just took a look at those x4r, considerably less power bridged than the Leviathon though it looks like a very nice amp


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## eviling

this is a little disheartening to me, as ive just decided to choose these amps for my new setup, and this might make me change my mind in the direction i move next. :\ 

this is the setup i plan on -


----------



## madmaxz

I'm running Rockford power series Amps currently. I'm also using the w910 and planing on a h800. Components will be dual jbl 608gti mids per side in the doors , scan 12mu mids, and scan illuminator tweets in the a pillers plus 2 arc black 12's sealed. But anyway point being I was thinking about trying the zed amps. But after reading this idk. Keep the rockfords that I love or maybe arc ks amps.


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## eviling

madmaxz said:


> I'm running Rockford power series Amps currently. I'm also using the w910 and planing on a h800. Components will be dual jbl 608gti mids per side in the doors , scan 12mu mids, and scan illuminator tweets in the a pillers plus 2 arc black 12's sealed. But anyway point being I was thinking about trying the zed amps. But after reading this idk. Keep the rockfords that I love or maybe arc ks amps.


thats a beautiful setup, that'll sound amazing.


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## tonesmith

eviling said:


> this is a little disheartening to me, as ive just decided to choose these amps for my new setup, and this might make me change my mind in the direction i move next. :\
> 
> this is the setup i plan on -


Look at the thread post date man. Evidently some people whoreceived the first generation Leviathans had this issue. Since then the second and third gens have not had the problem tmk.

Keep in mind the Zed audio 30 day money back guarantee. I have a Minotaur and love it. My friend who works at an very well known authorized dealer told me they have zero problems with returns on these, so after reading this and hearing him, I bought one and sure am glad I did! The leviathan will runt next setup as 1 amp solution. Hope it helps.
On another note, on your system, I have never heard music that sounded really good that came off on iPod.


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## madmaxz

Get a redwine imoded 5th gen. Worth every penny.


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## flytomars

Ahem, thats what I call waking up the dead 
As one of the ppl who had the problem and got it fixed (by replacing each channel`s main chip to the ones Steve sent), I can tell you that after more than a year of flawless operation - I simply adore this amp. I believe it is the best for its value, and even more than that - best in the price range of about double its price. Yep, I think it is that good.
I coupled it with an audison BitOne.1 (or whats its name... good lesson for the future - dont buy the first batch of anything  ) and I am as happy as can be. 
Like the person above me said - the problem only affected some of the amps in the first batch of the first Leviathan Mark1. The problem was diagnosed and dealt with, meaning that mark 2,3 do not suffer from it. 
AFAIK it didnt even affect all from the first batch of mark1, but still enough to tar its name...
Oh well, like I said, lesson for the future - dont be the one to buy the first batch


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## traceywatts

im runnin 2 of the leviathons. never had a single problem.


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## xr4tic

I'm running two Leviathans as well. I get a pop, but I'm fairly certain it's coming from the factory head unit. When I switch to Aux input on my MS-8, it goes away.


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## lucky

How loud is the pop? Before I had my opamps replaced, the pop was ear drum piercing. First time it happened I thought my engine blew or something. If it isn't that loud, it may be a minor problem like your headunit.

I'm in with the thread that this is a great amp. Only complaint I have is that I was sold an amp with the defective op-amps after it had been known for quite a while that the original opamps were causing problems. Also, there just may be such a thing as too much power. Hard to go fully active with just this one amp when most tweeters max out at 100watts RMS. I hear people say to just adjust the gain but I never feel like the dynamic range is fully there when the input signal is not properly matched with the gain sensitivity.


----------



## eviling

xr4tic said:


> I'm running two Leviathans as well. I get a pop, but I'm fairly certain it's coming from the factory head unit. When I switch to Aux input on my MS-8, it goes away.


sigh, its because your not letting the ms-8 turn on your amps, connect your remote wire to the output of your ms-8's remote. -_-


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## STEPHENM

_How loud is the pop? Before I had my opamps replaced, the pop was ear drum piercing. First time it happened I thought my engine blew or something. If it isn't that loud, it may be a minor problem like your headunit.

I'm in with the thread that this is a great amp. Only complaint I have is that I was sold an amp with the defective op-amps after it had been known for quite a while that the original opamps were causing problems. Also, there just may be such a thing as too much power. Hard to go fully active with just this one amp when most tweeters max out at 100watts RMS. I hear people say to just adjust the gain but I never feel like the dynamic range is fully there when the input signal is not properly matched with the gain sensitivity._



The defective chips were the class D high side low side driver chips and not op-amps.

The setting of the level control on our amplifiers has ZERO effect on the dynamic range.


----------



## xr4tic

eviling said:


> sigh, its because your not letting the ms-8 turn on your amps, connect your remote wire to the output of your ms-8's remote. -_-


That is not the problem, thanks for suggesting I'm an idiot though.

My MS-8 does turn on my amps. Problem is, the factory amp remote turn on wire keeps the MS-8 on all the time, thus keeping the amps on. And yes, I'm using the right wire, it used to work correctly with my old amps and MS-8.

I have a switch in the trunk I use to turn the MS-8 on/off manually. If the amps are on, the speakers will pop when I start the car, so I turn the system on after I start it, which avoids the pop.

I haven't fixed it yet partly because I don't want to spend the money on another radio unit but mostly because I work from home and rarely drive my car. When I do, it's usually just for a mile or two. Most of the time I just keep the radio off, my exhaust sounds better than most music anyways.


----------



## audioanamoly

STEPHENM said:


> _How loud is the pop? Before I had my opamps replaced, the pop was ear drum piercing. First time it happened I thought my engine blew or something. If it isn't that loud, it may be a minor problem like your headunit.
> 
> I'm in with the thread that this is a great amp. Only complaint I have is that I was sold an amp with the defective op-amps after it had been known for quite a while that the original opamps were causing problems. Also, there just may be such a thing as too much power. Hard to go fully active with just this one amp when most tweeters max out at 100watts RMS. I hear people say to just adjust the gain but I never feel like the dynamic range is fully there when the input signal is not properly matched with the gain sensitivity._
> 
> 
> 
> The defective chips were the class D high side low side driver chips and not op-amps.
> 
> The setting of the level control on our amplifiers has ZERO effect on the dynamic range.


Well that being said, It's great to hear from you Stephen! I just need to ask...Have all of the forementioned issues been resolved with the new leviathans?


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## edouble101

I was seriously contemplating purchasing this amp. I see that Zed does indeed have QC issues. I bought a Zed RA that has a misaligned faceplate that inhibits me from adjusting the knobs without a pair of pliers. I do not want to risk buying an amp with issues.


----------



## eviling

edouble101 said:


> I was seriously contemplating purchasing this amp. I see that Zed does indeed have QC issues. I bought a Zed RA that has a misaligned faceplate that inhibits me from adjusting the knobs without a pair of pliers. I do not want to risk buying an amp with issues.


this thread is old! those issues have been long resolved, that was the leviathan 1. he's on the 4th revision, and 3rd official revision. i just ordered mine, the new one does 230x6 at 4, and 400x6 at 2 ohms, it's an ungodly amp that can't be touched by anything right now, not in the price range. I think misconi does make some seriously powerful amps, but no 6 channels that i know of, and nothing this sexy. he hand builds them all, mines not even done yet. not sure what the normal wait time is, i just happened to have good timing with his new release so he was making a few already i think.'





xr4tic said:


> That is not the problem, thanks for suggesting I'm an idiot though.
> 
> My MS-8 does turn on my amps. Problem is, the factory amp remote turn on wire keeps the MS-8 on all the time, thus keeping the amps on. And yes, I'm using the right wire, it used to work correctly with my old amps and MS-8.
> 
> I have a switch in the trunk I use to turn the MS-8 on/off manually. If the amps are on, the speakers will pop when I start the car, so I turn the system on after I start it, which avoids the pop.
> 
> I haven't fixed it yet partly because I don't want to spend the money on another radio unit but mostly because I work from home and rarely drive my car. When I do, it's usually just for a mile or two. Most of the time I just keep the radio off, my exhaust sounds better than most music anyways.



nott trying to imply that, sorry  

you can use any switched 12v though, if your crafty you can find something in the ignition harness ot turn it on, but you can use other things, like the running lights, just hook that up to a relay so you're not adding stress to a system not designed for it. one of the new features in the new leviathan is, it retains transformer power but does not produce any power until a signal is released, not sure exactly how itworks, its some kinda circuit he built into the new ones.


----------



## STEPHENM

This person *edouble101*
who posted the Youtube video showing a RA stuck in a hole that no person could possibly get their fingers to, said that he used pliers to adjust the pots.

He claims that RA is a subsonic synthesizer.... there is no such thing!

Well another new word from this guy he called some thingys "pontometers", well I guess he refers to the potentiometers.

Easy to bash when you have little knowledge is it not?

Well of course you had to use pliers, your fingers are simply not long enough!
This poor RA is buried in a hole.

The usual on this forum, easy to bash someone. All you had to do was email me or call me and we would have taken care of your misaligned knobs on your RA. Sorry about the non backlit lettering but that is how RA was designed. What is the point of doing the "bash thing" on you tube, easy to see pics of RA on our website and notice that there is no back lighting.

But noooooo you feel it is really KOOL to post on this forum. Same old same old.

To put the record straight on the Leviathan "pop" issue. 

The very first production versions of the first Leviathan series had a chip which seemed (and was) sensitive to short duration noise pulses which caused erratic turn on behaviour.

We produced about 25-30 pcs and found that this was the issue in the field, but we did not see it in initial production. 

The chip manufacturer had recognized this problem and supplied us with the newer generation of chips which we used (and replaced) with ZERO issues.

The balance of Leviathan I used the new chips with no issues as did Leviathan II.

We have just started production and shipping on Leviathan III which is rated at 190w x 6 at 4 ohms and 330w x 6 at 2 ohms (Typical power is 230w into 4 ohms and 370w into 2 ohms).

To the gentleman who claims to have inside knowledge of Zed's operation visa vi "QC problems" I would like to know how you you know what our QC "problems" are? 

Are you a clairvoyant?

Forgive my sarcasm but I am tired of these comments. it would be nice if the members of this forum would not air dirty laundry. 

I would imagine that this forum (and others) is a place to share information, offer sensible advice and have some fun and not simply sit at your keyboard at 2.00 AM bashing people/companies about whom you know very little.

I had previously placed an offer on this forum that if anyone had an issue with a product or service which my company offers to simply call or email and it would be taken care of in a professional manner.

All of you remember the last Zed bashing thread where guys came out of the woodwork to recall their supposed trials and tribulations with Zed? Kinda sounds like these women who came after Herman Cain after 10-15 years.

Well the good news is that many more people support Zed than those who choose to bash it.

Stephen Mantz
Zed Audio


----------



## lucky

Wow. This never ends well.


----------



## zanon

I bought a faulty 1st gen Zed when i was on vacation in San Diego.
I live in Brazil, and it was quite easy to get in touch with Stephen. He sent me the parts(USA->Brazil) and emailed me a pdf with the replacing instructions.

I've never seen a customer support so good!

Thanks Stephen!


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## mdcruz88

Any word on Ver. 4 will be available?


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## eviling

mdcruz88 said:


> Any word on Ver. 4 will be available?


dude...the III just hit production i doubt he even has a plan for a IIII if he even continues the line


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## STEPHENM

We are in production of version III now. 

New products coming shortly including an 8 channel OEM interface.

Will be around when we introduce version IV


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## Dr_jitsu

Alrighty then,

So to summarize: There were problems on the first gen units that were fixed prior to their end run.

Next came the Gen 2 units that have been 100% problem free, yes? I ask because I have a chance to pick up a new gen 2 (Leviathan II...Hobbes, anyone) for what is a very good price. Gen 3 is currently in production.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## eprater1

well guess im gettin into this a little late but glad i took the time to read. for anyone that just clicks the last page here is a quick synopsis.

1)ZED made amp that had a defective chip. Note - only 2-3% of chips were defective, issue only occured during turn on/turn off and chip was manufactured outside the QC of said amp company (ZED.)
2)ZED tracked down the issue got a corrected/revised part.
3)ZED paid for all repairs including, new chip, workmanship and shipping both ways.
4)Revisions II and III have experienced no know issues.

I give kudos to ZED for even coming on this site and admitting any guilt, for those not familiar with the corporate side of this it has major ramifications and is a big risk on his part in my opinion. my only hickup here is what about all the blown speakers and the money that cost some people? again this is a much bigger can of worms to open than alot of people realize and at some point ZED does have to cover thier own ass. i do feel though that on a case by case basis ZED could have helped out some users who fried 1k worth of drivers all due to a faulty amp. now moving on.

Stephen,
Im in the market for a good sq 5-6 ch amp and considering yours highly, if i do go that route can i purchase directly from you rather than Ebay? The 8ch OEM interface you speak of is it just a line driver or a true DSP with all the bells of an Audison Bitone?


----------



## traceywatts

afaik, you can still buy directly from Zed.


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## STEPHENM

The new 8 channel interface is also a line in line out unit. All analog with 3 pairs of 9 band equalizers and one 7 band equalizer for sub woofers.

Will accept BTL or single ended speaker inputs up to 20v unbalanced or 40 v balanced. RCA line inputs will accept the same signal level.

Mixing of the various inputs accommodates bi-amp and tri-amp OEM signal configurations. Output level controls with clip LEDs on all outputs.

The unit will tirn on either via a conventional remote trigger, or via the DC sensed on a BTL speaker drive or via signal sensing on any input. The unit will generate its own remote out for the amplifiers.

The chip issue on Leviathan occurred in July/August 2009, almost 2.5 years ago, time to let this one go.

The gentleman who prefers to adjust his RA controls with a pliers, well continue the good work. All you had to do was contact me and this problem would have been taken care of. No you make a Youtube video and plaster it all over. I simply do not get it. 

I suppose if you had a problem with your vehicle, you would not contact your dealer, you would place a rubber band somewhere and drive the car and post on all forums you know of, saying that car type XX is bad, "I had to use a rubber band" to fix my problem. Suppose it makes sense to some!


StephenM


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## Hispls

I got a very early version of Leviathan and had the turn on and into protect issue. Happened very rarely for me, then I switched head units and it happened as often as not. I sent it back and got it sorted out no problem. I picked up a second one (later production just to have for possible future build) that has had 0 problems.

I hate to say it, but the last line of Zed amps had some glitches in the first batch, and I knew I was taking my chances getting in on the first group-buy pre-order here. I also knew that Stephen will take care of any issues that may come up and I was willing to run the risk to get his new product right out of the gate. I replaced Duece and Draconia with leviathan and haven't looked back. 

Also I'm a huge fan of Ra. I use the variable subsonic filter and gain constantly. I find it is useful from one recording to the next to really blend things right. IMO the best money I've spent on really integrating my substage. The LEDs went out on mine....but then again that was shorty affter I spilled half a Starbucks coffee into it LOL. I haven't even bothered to have it repaired since I know what all the knobs are by feel and really don't need any extra glow in my cabin. Honestly I'm impressed that it took 6 ounces of coffee and still functions at all.

If anyone doesn't like their leviathan please email me at my username @comcast.net. I'm somewhat in the market for one or two more.


----------



## alex1002

I know this old thread. Can anyone help with the gain control for this amp? Focal R-690c rear and Focal K2 Power 165 KR fronts, using the crossover from focal


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## Hispls

alex1002 said:


> I know this old thread. Can anyone help with the gain control for this amp? Focal R-690c rear and Focal K2 Power 165 KR fronts, using the crossover from focal


The amp has clip lights on it so it shouldn't be a great mystery where the amp is hitting its limits.


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## alex1002

Can anyone remember their for running component with this amp? Tweeter channel 1+2 woofer 5+6? 

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hispls

alex1002 said:


> Can anyone remember their for running component with this amp? Tweeter channel 1+2 woofer 5+6?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


This isn't even a complete sentence. What precisely is your problem? Do you know how to set gains on an amp? Have you read the Zed manual?

If English isn't your first language and you can't understand clip lights or the absolute basics of amp installation we can not really walk you through this and you should take this to a professional.


----------



## alex1002

I cannot get the tweeters to sound right. They sound like high pitch. https://youtu.be/ADzggYN4Xlc

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hispls

alex1002 said:


> I cannot get the tweeters to sound right. They sound like high pitch. https://youtu.be/ADzggYN4Xlc
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk



Again, if you do not understand the basics of setting crossovers and amp gains AND English isn't your first language it would be irresponsible for an English speaker to try to walk you through this. If you cannot find someone here to explain to you in your native language (French?) you should just go to a professional and pay them 40-50$ to set this up correctly. 

Alternately you could go to a car audio competition or show or DIYMA meetup locally and meet some people near you who could help.


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## alex1002

I took it to a local installer. He spend 30-45 min on it. He also cannot get rid of the high pitch sound. 

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


----------



## gijoe

alex1002 said:


> I took it to a local installer. He spend 30-45 min on it. He also cannot get rid of the high pitch sound.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


You probably have the same problem that most Leviathan owners have/had. These amps have major issues. You can read pages of complaints about noise from these. You could send it to Zed for repair, but their service the worst I've ever experienced. Unfortunately you have a broken amp from a company with terrible service, your options are limited.


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## alex1002

gijoe said:


> You probably have the same problem that most Leviathan owners have/had. These amps have major issues. You can read pages of complaints about noise from these. You could send it to Zed for repair, but their service the worst I've ever experienced. Unfortunately you have a broken amp from a company with terrible service, your options are limited.


Can you tell me what should I go to double check it's actually defective? Would be honour my warranty?

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


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## Hispls

gijoe said:


> most Leviathan owners have/had.


Citation needed.



alex1002 said:


> Can you tell me what should I go to double check it's actually defective? Would be honour my warranty?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


You haven't even explained your problem and your video just sounds like you playing 40 seconds worth of music with the tweeters gained too high. 

There were some issues with some bad components being used in a couple of the current generation amps (bad batches of parts from supplier) and AFAIK he made good on those. 

Can you try to explain what is going on and what you have tried in your native language and see if someone here can translate? Post pictures of the crossover/gain side of the amp.


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## alex1002

This is what the dealer told me to try. Subsonic 11,17, 27,40,44, 48 **Set at 27 to start

Low pass 40, 50.63, 110, 180, 200, 240 * *Set at between 63 and 110 to start

High pass 1.8k, 4k, 80, 115, 360 *Set at 115 to start



Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


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## Elektra

alex1002 said:


> This is what the dealer told me to try. Subsonic 11,17, 27,40,44, 48 **Set at 27 to start
> 
> Low pass 40, 50.63, 110, 180, 200, 240 * *Set at between 63 and 110 to start
> 
> High pass 1.8k, 4k, 80, 115, 360 *Set at 115 to start
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk




So where you crossing the tweeters? 115hz? 

Sounds like a one way trip to the bin to me...

Cross the tweeters at 3000hz at 12db slope 

Cross the mids at 63hz at 12dbs and cut off at 3000hz at 12dbs

But if your installer was worth his salt he would have done that already....

If your crossing your tweeters at 115hz then you can throw them away...


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## Elektra

Go and get a RTA reading on your car - you will easily see where the problem lies - sometimes brightness isn't from the tweeters it could be something to do with your mids as well

Also try reverse phasing on your tweeters - in my car I ran my Utopia tweeters reverse phase and it sounded great. 


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## alex1002

Elektra said:


> Go and get a RTA reading on your car - you will easily see where the problem lies - sometimes brightness isn't from the tweeters it could be something to do with your mids as well
> 
> Also try reverse phasing on your tweeters - in my car I ran my Utopia tweeters reverse phase and it sounded great.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You mean connect + to -?
https://youtu.be/YulV89iJonw

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## Elektra

alex1002 said:


> You mean connect + to -?
> https://youtu.be/YulV89iJonw
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk




Yes + to -... both sides


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## alex1002

Elektra said:


> Yes + to -... both sides
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can't believe this works. What a difference please explain why?

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## Hispls

alex1002 said:


> This is what the dealer told me to try. Subsonic 11,17, 27,40,44, 48 **Set at 27 to start
> 
> Low pass 40, 50.63, 110, 180, 200, 240 * *Set at between 63 and 110 to start
> 
> High pass 1.8k, 4k, 80, 115, 360 *Set at 115 to start
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


Wait, what?

1+2 are meant to be tweeter channels, 3 and 4 mids and 5 and 6 woofers/subs/midbass/whatever.

Or are you using passive crossovers that came with your components? You still have yet to explain precisely what your problem is or what is going on with this install. You could at least show us a picture of each side of the amp so we can see where the settings are and what channels you're trying to use.

It seems that neither you nor your installer have read the manual and understand it and it seems like you don't even understand what a crossover is supposed to do or what points are appropriate. You should find someone who knows what they are doing and they should be able to sort it out in under 10 minutes. 

If this is a language barrier thing post in your first language and perhaps there's someone on this board who can translate.


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## GEM592

Hispls said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> 1+2 are meant to be tweeter channels, 3 and 4 mids and 5 and 6 woofers/subs/midbass/whatever.
> 
> Or are you using passive crossovers that came with your components? You still have yet to explain precisely what your problem is or what is going on with this install. You could at least show us a picture of each side of the amp so we can see where the settings are and what channels you're trying to use.
> 
> It seems that neither you nor your installer have read the manual and understand it and it seems like you don't even understand what a crossover is supposed to do or what points are appropriate. You should find someone who knows what they are doing and they should be able to sort it out in under 10 minutes.
> 
> If this is a language barrier thing post in your first language and perhaps there's someone on this board who can translate.


He jumped threads. He was on the "focal sound terrible" thread, and two of us already told him EXACTLY how to wire that amp two way active - which channels, where to put the switches, levels, freq points, etc. Have fun!


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## alex1002

Hispls said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> 1+2 are meant to be tweeter channels, 3 and 4 mids and 5 and 6 woofers/subs/midbass/whatever.
> 
> Or are you using passive crossovers that came with your components? You still have yet to explain precisely what your problem is or what is going on with this install. You could at least show us a picture of each side of the amp so we can see where the settings are and what channels you're trying to use.
> 
> It seems that neither you nor your installer have read the manual and understand it and it seems like you don't even understand what a crossover is supposed to do or what points are appropriate. You should find someone who knows what they are doing and they should be able to sort it out in under 10 minutes.
> 
> If this is a language barrier thing post in your first language and perhaps there's someone on this board who can translate.


I connected Twitter to channel 1+2 and woofers to channel 5+6. No more crossover modules. I played with all settings recommend by dealer and different people here. But the twitter sound really bad. Like a loud squeaking noise. High pitch. 
Rcas from headunit front out are feeding the amp on channel 1+2 rcas in.

There's is no eq, loudness or anything set on the head unit. 

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## gijoe

Hispls said:


> Citation needed.
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't even explained your problem and your video just sounds like you playing 40 seconds worth of music with the tweeters gained too high.
> 
> There were some issues with some bad components being used in a couple of the current generation amps (bad batches of parts from supplier) and AFAIK he made good on those.
> 
> Can you try to explain what is going on and what you have tried in your native language and see if someone here can translate? Post pictures of the crossover/gain side of the amp.



Perhaps the "most people" was incorrect. But, many, many people have had issues. I won't even bother siting that because a quick search on this forum alone will show you how many people have had issues (including a lovely thread of mine). The issues were not fixed for the III versions as some claim, there may have been fewer issues, but the III's had terrible high frequency noise like the OP is describing. The amp isn't necessarily the problem, since it seems he's had difficulty understanding how to wire it, but these amps did not live up to their hype, and the service from Steve and his wife was awful.


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## Hispls

gijoe said:


> Perhaps the "most people" was incorrect. But, many, many people have had issues. I won't even bother siting that because a quick search on this forum alone will show you how many people have had issues (including a lovely thread of mine). The issues were not fixed for the III versions as some claim, there may have been fewer issues, but the III's had terrible high frequency noise like the OP is describing. The amp isn't necessarily the problem, since it seems he's had difficulty understanding how to wire it, but these amps did not live up to their hype, and the service from Steve and his wife was awful.



If you can decipher what this guy is describing you're a better mind reader than I am and perhaps you can help him troubleshoot this issue if there's a known bug. I really can't make heads or tails of it and it seems that he really doesn't know what he is doing or is very good with English. 

Sorry to hear you had a bad time. Stephen has always done right by me. I've only used V1 and V2 leviathan and apart from the early issue with the protect circuit mine have exceeded expectations.


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## Elektra

alex1002 said:


> I can't believe this works. What a difference please explain why?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk




It delays the tweeter slightly and tames the tweeter as well 

Seems to work more for Focals than any other speakers - I think it's because the tweeters are metal domes so they faster than silk domes 


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## GEM592

Elektra said:


> It delays the tweeter slightly and tames the tweeter as well
> 
> Seems to work more for Focals than any other speakers - I think it's because the tweeters are metal domes so they faster than silk domes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not metal domes on those, but phase reversal of tweets when crossover slopes are 12 dB/oct can help blend sometimes.


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## Hispls

GEM592 said:


> Not metal domes on those, but phase reversal of tweets when crossover slopes are 12 dB/oct can help blend sometimes.


IIRC Stephen uses a rather steeper slope on his crossovers so I'd guess a combination between location issues and overlapping crossover points too much. 

Switching phase seems to be a quick fix for a lot of issues we get in vehicles though so it's always worth testing.


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## Elektra

GEM592 said:


> Not metal domes on those, but phase reversal of tweets when crossover slopes are 12 dB/oct can help blend sometimes.




They not silk domes... 


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## alex1002

I made a major mistake when I said the dealer gave me recommended settings it was actually Stephen from Zed. I taught they were the dealer of zed. Sorry about this mistake. 

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