# Building House: Need System Design Help



## Hardwrkr (Jan 18, 2008)

We're building a home in the spring. Just under 3000ft bungalow plus similar size basement.
Receivers and available speaker options have changed a lot since I last bought.
I already have a powerful Yamaha (non-wifi/non-bluetooth) that will continue to power the HT system.
Other than having some experience using Sonos systems I really have no idea on what else I could use to make my requirements work.
I'm needing to buy speakers for the garage, basement, livingroom, and outside deck area. Since I'm building the wires can all easily be run during the build. Would in-wall speakers be a good option?
I also would like the ability to control the music and zones from my phone. 
Any equipment advice is welcome.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Hardwrkr said:


> ... Since I'm building the wires can all easily be run during the build. ...


I would run conduits to route either balanced, RCAs, or speaker wires.

There is a reason why people use WiFi and Bluetooth... but if it is all being built then you're golden. Probably also running CAT 5/6 makes sense too.

I am pretty sure that Neutrik has most of the RCA, balanced and SpeakOn connectors for attaching cables to the wall outlets.

Whether you want wall speakers, or a closet type of room for the home theatre... where speakers may go... I dunno.


----------



## dwhyte91 (Sep 30, 2019)

I just redid my main floor and used in wall/ceiling speakers for my Atmos setup and zone 2 in the dining room. The wife didn’t want towers anymore so I had little choice and built out over my fireplace with 3/4” mdf for speaker boxes and mounted the tv there as well. I used 14awg speaker wire (CL2 rated) and installed a piece of conduit to where the tv is to run the connections for it. My home router comes in right where I have all my equipment so running cat 5/6 everywhere was unnecessary.

I use a Dennon receiver and a Blusound node 2 for music linked to my Tidal account. I can control everything from my phone and it’s quite convenient. I’m not sure how you’d be able to control it all if your current receiver isn’t capable of it.


----------



## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

I ordered the house with CAT5e (back then it was CAT5e) everywhere in every room, even in strange places like under a built-in desk in the walkway (that's where I actually put 2 printers... now just one printer). Even the kitchen wall/counter has a port. Most ports are a waste (not in use).

The port in the media center is actually useful. When there're too many AV equipment stacked or near each other, the signal reception isn't the best and wired is always better here.... so maybe put a few ports here. 

I have 4 ports in the home office room... total waste too... I don't use that place anymore.... these days I just hold a phone while laying down on the sofa or other sofa or other chair. If I boot up the laptop I just use wifi while in the formal dining room table (must make use of that table/furniture there.... not for decoration lol). 

Also have an IT closet (in a closet) with all the network equipment. 

Anyways go figure where you like to put your big equipment (printer, NAS, game consoles, smart TV, smart receiver, smart BD player, etc not just the usual cablemodem, router, switch) and that's where the ports should be. 

For speakers I mostly use in-wall type everywhere since they disappear from view. Speakers should be heard not seen. Turns out good since I don't turn it on much … don't see and don't hear them at all lol.


----------



## Hardwrkr (Jan 18, 2008)

I know of bluetooth/wifi adapters that I could use to control my current receiver but even with a smart receiver I don't know how I would be able to independently control the 4 or more zones I'll have.


----------



## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Recently i was toying with the idea to add a pair of in-wall speakers in the garage. I looked up my receiver's manual and quickly realized I can't because the multi-room output means only a pair of speakers for the other room. After I wired for 7.1 in the family room, all the outputs have already been taken and i can't add any more rooms. Then I realized I also have two older receivers in the house.... maybe just drag one into the garage instead of trying to string more wires and speakers lol.

For major smart multiroom audio we'll probably have to add switch boxes and apps. There's one from Control4, a home/facility automation company. Have not used them before other than when at Aria Las Vegas. Each room there has smart lighting and smart curtains running on thousands of control4 boxes. Just walk into the room and the lights, HVAC, curtains etc do different things depending on the time of the day. They have the equipment for home multi-room audio setups.

Maybe just add receivers for each zone if you're out of ports/outputs too(?) Normally what I do with TVs is... the newest biggest baddest TV is always for the family room. Whatever was there gets rotated (moved) to the bedroom. Whatever in the bedroom gets rotated to the loft, etc. The idea is only buy the biggest equipment and keep rotating them down throughout the house. (Have to do that rotation with receivers too lol.)


----------



## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Just get blue tooth receiver and some jbl 305s. Jammin

Bluetooth Audio Adapter for Music Streaming Sound System, esinkin W29-us Wireless Audio Adapter Works with Smart Phones and Tablets, Wireless Adapter for Speakers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016NUTG5K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_tzOXDbYQ1992T


----------



## JohnTB72 (May 9, 2019)

Hardwrkr said:


> We're building a home in the spring. Just under 3000ft bungalow plus similar size basement.
> 
> Receivers and available speaker options have changed a lot since I last bought.
> 
> ...


I have been doing home audio for almost 20 years now. There are many options from mild to wild for what you are trying to do. The phone control part can be done fairly easy. URC makes a platform called Total Control that is very scalable much like C4. It can control your older equipment as well as 1 and 2 way IP control of newer devices like music and media streamers. 

The biggest thing I can stress when wiring a home if you are into distributed music and tech gadgets is LOTS of Cat5e/6 cable. Aside from speaker wire it has basically become the universal wire of the home audio/control world. Thanks to baluns you can make a Cat cable into anything from a set of 1000' noise free RCA's to a 150' 4K HDMI cable and anything in between. 

When I wire a home I typically pull 3 or 4 Cat cables to every TV location. 

1 or 2 are for Network for your smart TV, streaming media player, video game, etc. Pulling a network for each device back to a single location will keep you from having little 5 port network switches everywhere. That can become a network troubleshooting nightmare in a hurry.

1 is for audio return from the TV to your distributed amplifier using the aforementioned baluns. 

1 is for IR control. You can use it to make multiple IR flashers back to a central controller like URC for controlling older TV's, Blurays, AV receivers, etc.

Also 1 Coax should be there as well for antenna, sat, or cable. 

Pulling HDMI isn't a bad idea of you want to distribute video from a central source (cameras, etc) but anything over 50' requires a GOOD CABLE if you want 4k sources. 

In-wall speakers have many options as well. Definitive Technology makes some fantastic sounding in-wall speakers. They even have a completely cabineted in-wall subwoofer that fits any 2x4 wall with a 14" sub and 14" passive that can play cleanly down to 20hz. 

PM me if you have questions. I would be happy to talk shop.







Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## JohnTB72 (May 9, 2019)

diy.phil said:


> Recently i was toying with the idea to add a pair of in-wall speakers in the garage. I looked up my receiver's manual and quickly realized I can't because the multi-room output means only a pair of speakers for the other room. After I wired for 7.1 in the family room, all the outputs have already been taken and i can't add any more rooms. Then I realized I also have two older receivers in the house.... maybe just drag one into the garage instead of trying to string more wires and speakers lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most multi zone receivers offer pre-amp outputs for the second/third zones. Even though you used all 7 channels of your amp for the surround system you should be able to add a basic 2 channel amp to those 2nd zone preouts and get the best of both worlds. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Hardwrkr (Jan 18, 2008)

We're definitely not into tech gadgets. We have one main tv and a appletv connected. Yamaha receiver running Polk Reference towers, center, sub. A slimmer center may be needed for the new house though for stone fireplace mount.
I have a pair of old receivers (a Pioneer 810 and a Sony 5ch something). The Sony is in the garage powering some Sony cube speakers and a sub. The Pioneer is in a closet with a Polk Reference bookshelfs that I never ended up using for rears in the HT.
I don't mind re-using the old receivers so long as I could make them work seemlessly with a wifi setup being switchable on/off and without sound lag between zones.

I like the way the Sonos app makes it easy to adjust zone volume and turn on/off speakers. If I went with a wifi speaker mesh (Sonos, Denon, Bluesound, etc) I don't know what I would use for rear outdoor deck speakers. We're building a covered deck so they wouldn't be directly in elements but I want them to be permanent and therefor be able to make it through Canadian climate.


----------



## JohnTB72 (May 9, 2019)

Hardwrkr said:


> We're definitely not into tech gadgets. We have one main tv and a appletv connected. Yamaha receiver running Polk Reference towers, center, sub. A slimmer center may be needed for the new house though for stone fireplace mount.
> 
> I have a pair of old receivers (a Pioneer 810 and a Sony 5ch something). The Sony is in the garage powering some Sony cube speakers and a sub. The Pioneer is in a closet with a Polk Reference bookshelfs that I never ended up using for rears in the HT.
> 
> ...


Your easiest bet at that point will be the Sonos ConnectAmp. It is basically a 2 channel amplifier to power any speakers you want to use but works like the sonos speakers. You will need to pull speaker wire from where the connectamp will go to the speakers but otherwise it's just another Sonos unit. 

As far as outdoor speakers go. If they aee truly OUTDOOR speakers they will weather the cold just fine. Try and keep them under a soffit to avoid them getting ice build up but otherwise you will be fine. I live right near Lake Michigan and we frequently see 0 degree temps and below. Rock speakers are the only ones you need to be careful with (again ice dams). I leave them out all year but typically put a garbage bag over them.

For your surround sound area you can use the regular Sonos Connect (preamp only). This will ensure there is no room to room lag when streaming music. 

Logitech has a great wifi remote that is a cost effective 1 room solution for controlling your surround system. It is easily programmed by the end user in about 30 minutes. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Hardwrkr (Jan 18, 2008)

Has anyone had any experience using DTS Play-Fi? It would give me the ability to run more choices of wifi speakers while giving me the control I want. I could add a Play-Fi equipped new last-years leftover receiver locally for the price of a Sonos Connect as well.


----------



## JohnTB72 (May 9, 2019)

Hardwrkr said:


> Has anyone had any experience using DTS Play-Fi? It would give me the ability to run more choices of wifi speakers while giving me the control I want. I could add a Play-Fi equipped new last-years leftover receiver locally for the price of a Sonos Connect as well.


The Definitive Technology streaming speakers use Play-Fi. It works well. Just double check the available built in sources compared to Sonos or Heos. Any source not built in will have to be constantly piped via your phone or tablet which can be a battery killer. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## charlesleek (Jun 9, 2021)

I suggest you contact a company specialized in garage or gate installation to choose a gate from them and see if you can install wires through the basement. There are many good companies like https://everlastgates.com/austin-texas-automatic-gate-repair-installation/ on the internet that can help you with such tasks. Good luck to you and I hope you will find a way to solve your problem as soon as possible.


----------



## abizzle (Jul 13, 2021)

Hardwrkr said:


> We're building a home in the spring. Just under 3000ft bungalow plus similar size basement.
> Receivers and available speaker options have changed a lot since I last bought.
> I already have a powerful Yamaha (non-wifi/non-bluetooth) that will continue to power the HT system.
> Other than having some experience using Sonos systems I really have no idea on what else I could use to make my requirements work.
> ...


I can tell you what I would want. I was only an installer for 3.5 years, but we did a lot of high end homes with distributed A/V systems and our automation platform was Control4. It doesn’t matter what you choose for control, the wiring is the same. Wireless is great and it has its place, but wires are better. Wireless should be used for data and not A/V, especially if you are pre-wiring.

So, For each room where you want a pair of speakers or a dual voice coil speaker, run 16/4 CL2 rated speaker wire. In zones where you want 5.1, 7.1, Atmos, etc., run 16/2 speaker wire to every channel and coax to each sub location. If it is a theater or media room, you may want to run larger or better wires to each speaker. If you are using in-ceiling or in-wall speakers, install a pre wire bracket at each speaker location. For projector locations run 3 Cat5e/Cat6, RG-6 Coax, and HDMI if you want.

For each TV location I would run 3 Cat5e/Cat6 and a RG-6 coax. The Cat5e/Cat6 can be converted to any signal. If you want to run HDMI to each TV that’s up to you. At this point I would make sure all HDMI cables will support 8K Video and 24-bit/192kHz audio.

When wiring for data, consider where your Internet modem will be in relation to your A/V equipment. You may want to run several Cat5e/Cat6 cables. Each room should have at least one wall jack with 2-3 Cat5e/Cat6 cables. You may want to run Cat5e/Cat6 to places where you may have a wireless access point, touchscreen, auxiliary input, desktop computers, AppleTV, Roku, Firestick, etc.

I would want to run this system with at least an 8x8 HDBaseT Matrix Switch. HDBaseT can send Ultra HD video, High-resolution multichannel audio, power, Ethernet, control, and IR over a single Cat6 cable. You can have up to 8 sources, whether they are cable/satellite boxes, Blu-Ray player, AppleTV, Camera DVR, On-screen Menu system, streaming media server, etc, and share all of them between up to 8 zones. I would also want a multizone amplifier for each zone with a pair of speakers or DVC and a Surround Sound Receiver for each zone with Surround.

For a control system, something like Control4 is really nice and it is a well developed platform, but it requires a Control4 dealer for the installation and programming. You’ll need at least a couple of controllers and a few remotes. Any updates to the system must also be done by a dealer. Someone mentioned the URC system, which I also like. There are also open source projects like Home Assistant that is more for the DIY type.

I’ve probably given you a lot to consider, so when in doubt run Cat5e/Cat6. Be sure to put 120Vac power with each TV and subwoofer location. That’s about all I got.


----------

