# JL Audio HD Amps vs. Focal FPS Amps



## jonesy22645 (Oct 11, 2010)

I have a choice of the two amps . Im looking for the best SQ overall. Looking for a combination of amps to power Utopia components and Focal coaxials in doors. Pro's and con's of both will be appreciated.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

They should sound the same. The JL's are probably smaller and probably cheaper, so I'd go with those.


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## Jboogie (Mar 13, 2007)

the more expensive amps always sounds better...


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## DirtyDog (Jul 30, 2009)

Jboogie said:


> the more expensive amps always sounds better...




LOL...aren't the HD series class D? If you want SQ, stay clear of them. Class D just doesn't have the high frequency stability as a Class A/B does. For that reason alone, i would say...Focal.
Seems like JL is going to what consumers "think" they want which is the most power in the smallest package without realizing they are getting what they pay for.
At any rate, I think you could do much better with that kind of cash than those. Just my .02


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Those JL amps measure just as well as any A/B amp in frequency response. There's no shred of evidence that modern class D full range amps sound any different than class A/B's.

Not that I put much stock into sound off competitions, but if Mark Eldridge uses them, I would have to guess they sound completely fine.

People need to quit worrying about amplifiers when they make no difference in sound quality, and start learning how to install and tune a lot better.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

The single-cycle control (TM) used in JL HD amps will perform _much_ better in the treble than a typical Class AB amp, because the control bandwidth is _much_ higher.


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## DirtyDog (Jul 30, 2009)

The available bandwidth makes no difference if you never use it. I'm not saying the JL HD line is junk by any means, don't go thinking that.

BUT, regardless of what class the amps are, there are many other amps capable of more power that sound just as good as either one for much less money.
I think HD line-up is overpriced due to it's fresh market. Plus, it's got limited x-over abilities if the OP is even looking for those features.

I think JBoogie said it all.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

DirtyDog said:


> The available bandwidth makes no difference if you never use it. I'm not saying the JL HD line is junk by any means, don't go thinking that.
> 
> BUT, regardless of what class the amps are, there are many other amps capable of more power that sound just as good as either one for much less money.
> I think HD line-up is overpriced due to it's fresh market. Plus, it's got limited x-over abilities if the OP is even looking for those features.
> ...


So are we supposed to take your opinion over someone like Lycan who's done significant work in the field of eletronics (correct me if I'm wrong Wolf) or Mark Eldridge who has built some of the best and most memorable cars in mobile audio history?


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

DirtyDog said:


> The available bandwidth makes no difference if you never use it. I'm not saying the JL HD line is junk by any means, don't go thinking that.


no, that's not what i meant.

I wrote "control bandwidth" ... it's a feedback thing. The wider the feedback bandwidth is, the more control you have over the signal. Think in terms of "how many corrections per second" you get. To produce a very high frequency signal accurately, you need many more "corrections per second" in the feedback loop. In other words, accurate high frequency reproduction requires feedback or control bandwidth _much_ higher than 20kHz. And the more "control bandwidth" you have, the more accurate the reproduction at high frequencies. This pertains to _any_ feedback topology ... no matter what class of operation.

The single-cycle control circuitry used by JL will absolutely rival, and in many cases exceed, your typical Class AB amp when it comes to accurate high frequency (treble) audio reproduction.

All Class D amps are NOT created equal


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

JL HD amps are the goodness.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

And now comes the typical "Say what you will, but......" response.


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## downwind4final (Oct 8, 2006)

For SQ, find some minty old school ADS amps on eBay. Nothing sounds better than a PQ20 or PS5....imo  and, you'll save hundreds!


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

If you are looking for SQ ....avoid anything JL. 

>^..^<


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Catman said:


> If you are looking for SQ ....avoid anything JL.
> 
> >^..^<


"Idiotic post of the day" winner right here.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

downwind4final said:


> For SQ, find some minty old school ADS amps on eBay. Nothing sounds better than a PQ20 or PS5....imo  and, you'll save hundreds!


After being all nostalgic and running 20 year old amplifiers, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. 90% of the old school amplifiers I purchased off of eBay did not work properly. Some were simple fixes, such as replacing electrolytic capacitors whereas others were horror stories, like this Rockford Fosgate Punch 150:










Before anyone mentions it, the majority of my sellers had 100% positive feedback. At least eBay and PayPal took care of me in most cases only causing me to lose time and return shipping money while being aggravated. There was only a seller or two who bailed and left me hanging with FUBAR amplifiers.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

ChrisB said:


> After being all nostalgic and running 20 year old amplifiers, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. 90% of the old school amplifiers I purchased off of eBay did not work properly. Some were simple fixes, such as replacing electrolytic capacitors whereas others were horror stories, like this Rockford Fosgate Punch 150:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should've purchased Blues Audio.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Should've purchased Blues Audio.


They weren't operational when I was in that nostalgic frame of mind. Besides, if I want to run Credence speakers, I will buy them from Credence versus paying someone else's marked up price.

Also, maybe I was a little too harsh with my anti old school gear rant... I just wanted anyone to realize that purchasing 20 year old electronics is a gamble and they may need repair. If one is incapable of changing out parts themselves, the total costs involved to put that old school gear into use will far exceed the price of modern day high-end gear. Of course, therein lies another problem in that some parts just aren't available and there no suitable cost effective substitutes.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> JL HD amps are the goodness.


Word... lovin' the **** outta mine.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

ChrisB said:


> They weren't operational when I was in that nostalgic frame of mind. Besides, if I want to run Credence speakers, I will buy them from Credence versus paying someone else's marked up price.
> 
> Also, maybe I was a little too harsh with my anti old school gear rant... I just wanted anyone to realize that purchasing 20 year old electronics is a gamble and they may need repair. If one is incapable of changing out parts themselves, the total costs involved to put that old school gear into use will far exceed the price of modern day high-end gear. Of course, therein lies another problem in that some parts just aren't available and there no suitable cost effective substitutes.


Blues Audio can be ported.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

Catman said:


> If you are looking for SQ ....avoid anything JL.
> 
> >^..^<


You must be kidding, I assume?

By the way, the quote in your sig is incorrect. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil". The meaning is completely different when quoted accurately.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Blues Audio can be ported.


Are you saying that I should be running four BL10s isobaric in a large enclosure tuned to 23 Hz? I'll do it if you buy the speakers, build the enclosure, and install it in my vehicle for me.

Getting this back on track, I was extremely impressed with the JL Audio HD900/5 and almost purchased one to put in my vehicle. They are one of the first manufacturers to get full range Class D sounding right (EDIT: for the 12v automotive market).

Unfortunately my experience with the full range Class D Alpine PDX-5 was less than pleasant. It was noisy, it had weird frequency anomalies, and I'll eat my hat if the subwoofer channel was capable of giving me 300 watts RMS @ 2 ohms. My subwoofer disappeared so well with the PDX-5 it was like I didn't even have a subwoofer installed in my vehicle!


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## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

while the jl amps are nice i've always been very fond or arc audio and zapco personally.. if i had to choose it would be between those 2 brands..


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

2 things:
1) The JLs are great. They're expensive because they're small and pack balls. They say JL on them. Paying more for JL's name is pretty common, yes. But, in this case, considering the competition, they're well worth it.
2) The HDs have plenty of "sq". Enough for myself, and Mark Eldridge to have (what I believe) great sounding systems. I've got 3 jl hds and all my gear is under my front seats. Try doing that with some huge A/B amps. Funny enough, the guy who got 1st place and beat me in MECA this year runs PDXs... and he's a 4-time oscar winner for film audio engineering. They have enough sq for him. 

FWIW, our next car will use (2) hd900/5s. I already have one sitting upstairs. 

You know, people always just assume the worst. No one has sat in my car, listened, and said "man, it sounds like you have Class D amps". Not once. Maybe they just don't know how to tell me my system sucks. Or maybe they just don't hear a difference like they think they would. I've had probably 30 people in and out of my car in the past year, too. 


Edit: As far as PDX's, the only real issue I ever had was the noise floor. Otherwise, I thought they did the job well.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well to be fair you aren't just paying for the JL logo on the outside of the amps. You ARE paying for licensing technology from Power Physics who created the Single Cycle Control that JL uses in the HD series of amps. Which the SCC is pretty darned slick technology, much more advanced than ICEpower.

JL did some incredible engineering with these amps. I've owned the Slash series and wasn't too fond of them. But I would put these HD amps right up neck and neck with my Brax amps.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Well to be fair you aren't just paying for the JL logo on the outside of the amps. You ARE paying for licensing technology from Power Physics who created the Single Cycle Control that JL uses in the HD series of amps. Which the SCC is pretty darned slick technology, much more advanced than ICEpower.
> 
> JL did some incredible engineering with these amps. I've owned the Slash series and wasn't too fond of them. But I would put these HD amps right up neck and neck with my Brax amps.


Yes, I agree. We're paying for technology. But, we are also likely paying a premium for the fact that JL is producing it. That's likely directly linked to the engineering. I'd rather pay extra for quality and some forward thinking rather than the same ol' that doesn't do much for me.






... this whole class D "sq" topic. I've yet to have a system that sounds as good as it does in my car. The fact is that the HD amps are great amps. They do a damn good job in my car. They're small, and they provide me with plenty of system volume with no issues whatsoever. I beat plenty of cars this year with A/B amps. The point? People need to quit worrying about the class of their amps and worry about the install and tuning. Very few (if any) are going to be able to pick out differences in quality amps and sadly, those who say they can are the ones who are the keyboard commandos, not giving anything else a try because their ego doesn't permit them to. So, they'll never really know. Sucks for them because they're possibly missing out. Sucks for everyone else because they hear stupidity and drivel.

I've been through quite a lot of amps the past few years. The JLs have been in my car for over a year and are not going anywhere. Hell, even if they were $200 more/amp, I'd just save up the money. The power/footprint/build of these are worth the money to me. If they aren't to you, then so be it. But don't discount them simply because you can't believe Class D sounds good.

I implore anyone second guessing the newer wave of Class D amps to try them out before discounting them. Do your own testing. Do some rough level matching, and test yourself. Do some comparison listening in real time and freakin' LISTEN! You might just be surprised at how good they sound (or surprised that your hearing isn't all you claim it is). 

- Erin


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

Erin congrats on finals. Nothing wrong with JL.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well, class A is still the best. Even morea better when it is class A with tubes.

But I dunno if I would go as far as saying all class D and class D amps are created teh same. But I won't say all amps sound the same either.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I won't say all amps sound the same, either. But to say that an amp sounds bad just because it's Class D is rubbish. Period.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> Well, class A is still the best. Even morea better when it is class A with tubes.



And you have what...2 or 3 choices at the most?

At least they can double as your heater in the winter.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

There's not many choices for sure...and for a car, just not that practical. this is coming from a guy who has both a pair of Monolithic Class As and a HSS Fidelity class A tube amp.

I agree just because it's class D doesn't mean it's going to suck any more than class a/b is going to sound good. But tubes always sound good just because tubes are cool.


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## HK_M3 (Sep 12, 2009)

This...



bikinpunk said:


> Yes, I agree. We're paying for technology. But, we are also likely paying a premium for the fact that JL is producing it. That's likely directly linked to the engineering. I'd rather pay extra for quality and some forward thinking rather than the same ol' that doesn't do much for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Salad Fingers (Jun 14, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Well to be fair you aren't just paying for the JL logo on the outside of the amps. You ARE paying for licensing technology from Power Physics who created the Single Cycle Control that JL uses in the HD series of amps. Which the SCC is pretty darned slick technology, much more advanced than ICEpower.
> 
> JL did some incredible engineering with these amps. I've owned the Slash series and wasn't too fond of them. But I would put these HD amps right up neck and neck with my Brax amps.


Anyone else using this SCC from Power Physics?


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## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

Salad Fingers said:


> Anyone else using this SCC from Power Physics?


PowerPhysics Audio Electronics - Automotive

nope


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Old ass post I know , but the focal amps really are better. I own both. I just discovered how much better the focal is today, did some digging on line found this post and couldn't resist 


The fps Ab is by a long shot the best sounding amp ive heard in a long time , it smokes my HD amps, I would love to do a test with a mcintosh or a zap . 

Anyway back from the dead .


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I would go with the jl's they r probably both very similar but i would go with the jl's just because they r probably just a little bit cheaper


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

gumbeelee said:


> I would go with the jl's they r probably both very similar but i would go with the jl's just because they r probably just a little bit cheaper



Cheeper by a lot , it's wierd tho I have owned both amps for a year now, I thought they sounded very similar, the focal has much better polar responce up high ( above 3k guess) and it's much more coherent by a long shot. 

The focal amp really is a much better sounding amp. I hate posting measurements so I'm not going to, the HD amp seems to fluctuate in phase a bit between left and right. It's minor, and my scope isn't the best but it will measure rms and jewels , clipping , square , triangle, a variety of diffrent signals, and when I put tones on both amps with the same exact loads the focal amp is very stable where as the HD amp slightly ripples a bit up high in frequency . Sorry my terminology sucks, I barely know how to work the scope as it is. 

Nyhoo


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

oabeieo said:


> the focal has much better polar responce up high ( above 3k guess)


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

ErinH said:


>


^^^^ a woman tired of listen to how awesome her HD amps is .


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## Maxim7 (Nov 23, 2013)

Anyone have experience 1st hand with both of these amps. 
Got both series of amps laying around 600/4 : fps-4.160
Thinking of running them active along active with some focals mid/high's .... active.


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