# Best sounding small foot print amps(Class D)



## voodoosoul

Please give me your input.


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## mattyjman

all amps sound the same -- take your pick.


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## BuickGN

I think most amps sound the same but some people claim the cheap class D amps aren't made correctly and sq suffers. Out of the good class D amps I like the HDs for their very low noise floor, good output, small size, and they stay cool.


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## 07azhhr

Why two threads on this?


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## 07azhhr

BuickGN said:


> I think most amps sound the same but some people claim the cheap class D amps aren't made correctly and sq suffers. Out of the good class D amps I like the HDs for their very low noise floor, good output, small size, and they stay cool.


 
Curious Buick, you say "low" noise floor. Is that to say that there is a slight bit of noise with the HD's?


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## JVD240

See other thread...


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## BuickGN

07azhhr said:


> Curious Buick, you say "low" noise floor. Is that to say that there is a slight bit of noise with the HD's?


Honestly with my first set of tweeters on the HDs (Dyn102) there was none even with the gains all the way up. With the current Dyn 110 tweeters, with the gain all the way up and my ear near the tweeters there's a little something but you have to try to hear it. Nothing audible in the other speakers. For all intents and purposes its nonexistent but if you really try you can hear a little something.


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## LovesMusic

BuickGN said:


> Honestly with my first set of tweeters on the HDs (Dyn102) there was none even with the gains all the way up. With the current Dyn 110 tweeters, with the gain all the way up and my ear near the tweeters there's a little something but you have to try to hear it. Nothing audible in the other speakers. For all intents and purposes its nonexistent but if you really try you can hear a little something.



Buick did you use the HD while processing with the MS8?
Im pretty sure my Ms8 is the weak link in the "low" floor noise chain with my HDs..

otherwise, the HDs are reliably powerful, tastefully designed, space efficient tanks of an amp.


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## Barbecue

mattyjman said:


> all amps sound the same -- take your pick.


This pretty much sums it up...


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## Richv72

They dont all sound the same


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## 07azhhr

BuickGN said:


> Honestly with my first set of tweeters on the HDs (Dyn102) there was none even with the gains all the way up. With the current Dyn 110 tweeters, with the gain all the way up and my ear near the tweeters there's a little something but you have to try to hear it. Nothing audible in the other speakers. For all intents and purposes its nonexistent but if you really try you can hear a little something.


I see. If you have to put your ear near the speaker then I would think that that can be considered a zero noise floor amp .


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## Chaos

:inout:


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## naughtyca

I run rockford pbr 300x4 smallest amp ive seen. Peiced under 150

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## ZAKOH

Brock_Landers said:


> Some of those amps in the poll are basically the same. I run two TN4.900D's and they sound great, produce no noise, and don't run hot or even warm. The only thing they don't do is make me sammiches.




I used PPI P900.4 to power a subwoofer. It was stuck between a rear sear and subwoofer enclosure, with no airflow around the heat sink. It never got hot, it was just barely warm. Amazing amp. I am thinking of getting Class D amp for my front stage as well.


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## Bayboy

This topic has been beaten to death, revived, shot, then resuscitated, drowned, then hung dry.

Thing is this, unless you have very acute hearing then most class D will not be an issue. No they don't all sound alike, but the question is not can you hear it, it is does it really matter that much to "chase the dragon"? Personally I don't care for seeking out a certain sonic signature. I use the EQ to give the taste I want despite what is suppose to be the "standard" because I don't compete. 

With that just pick out one that is dependable, flexible, and has enough clean power for what you plan to do. There's several tried & true that are available.... Pioneer, JL, PPI, Alpine, etc...


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## naughtyca

ZAKOH said:


> I used PPI P900.4 to power a subwoofer. It was stuck between a rear sear and subwoofer enclosure, with no airflow around the heat sink. It never got hot, it was just barely warm. Amazing amp. I am thinking of getting Class D amp for my front stage as well.


The TN 4.900d and the ppi 900.4 is the same amp, they are awsome amp but i dont think they are small, to me they are regular size


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## duro78

naughtyca said:


> The TN 4.900d and the ppi 900.4 is the same amp, they are awsome amp but i dont think they are small, to me they are regular size


You really don't consider those amps to be on the smaller side? The average size for an amp with that type of output is about 17 inches and up. Have you seen either in person?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## duro78

Would love to see a direct comparison between the ppi and an hd or a pdx. I've read a couple comparison reviews but nothing in depth

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## naughtyca

I guess it depends on how small is small, to me small foot prints are sound digitals and the rockford PBR's which are a little bigger than a smart phone.


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## naughtyca

duro78 said:


> Would love to see a direct comparison between the ppi and an hd or a pdx. I've read a couple comparison reviews but nothing in depth
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


you might want to add the kenwood excelon xr-4s


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## Bayboy

The PBR is not a fair comparison since it sacrifices quite a bit compared to actual class D amps. Fixed crossover & not bridgeable places it under the Picasso Nano in flexibility despite it's advantage in size.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I've never been disapointed with the many systems I've heard with the JL HD. If you have the coin they're a great amp. As for the lower priced fullrange d amps, the PPI has gotten great reviews.


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## BuickGN

LovesMusic said:


> Buick did you use the HD while processing with the MS8?
> Im pretty sure my Ms8 is the weak link in the "low" floor noise chain with my HDs..
> 
> otherwise, the HDs are reliably powerful, tastefully designed, space efficient tanks of an amp.


The MS8 added a little. So did my stock HU. I'm talking with the gains really cranked all the way. The MS8 was a small part of the noise floor. When I said the amps have no noise floor I'm talking with nothing going into the input or with the HU off. 

To put it in perspective in order to get a significant noise floor with the MS8 hooked up I would have to have the gains cranked to where volume 10 of 40 was the loudest I could listen to. With everything adjusted normally there was no noise floor with the MS8.


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## naughtyca

The great thing on the ppi and the soundstream tn are the availability of doing bandpass crossover which a lot of amps cannot do

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## duro78

naughtyca said:


> you might want to add the kenwood excelon xr-4s


Funny thing is it actually did cross my mind when I wrote it. Excellent under appreciated amp

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## naughtyca

duro78 said:


> Funny thing is it actually did cross my mind when I wrote it. Excellent under appreciated amp
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


I actually bought this kenwood excelon xr-4s amp in craiglist for $100 but the amp was in bad shape, missing speaker screws, power connector screw was loose thread, fuse is wobbly, i had to return it and its back on craiglist for $75, the guy who was selling was a great guy.


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## Bayboy

Honestly I don't recall seeing any bad reviews of the major class D amp brands. When I say bad I'm talking about experiences beyond subjective listening. The most complaints I've seen on the class D full range was of the "dull" top end, but again we're getting into that sonic signature aspect. There's far too many content users to make those sort of claims the gospel. Use the best & most fitting one for your wallet.


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## PPI_GUY

JL Audio XD's are great little amps. Very small footprint and underrated by about 10% per Manville Smith. I think alot of people ignore them either because they don't want to be seen pumping JL or because they have been out for some time. 

Someone mentioned the Kenwood Excelon XR's. They are actually in the process of introducing 'new' versions of these amps. XR600-1, XR400-4, XR900-5 are the new models and I've held the 600-1 in my hands. It is actually thinner (height) than the JL XD600/1 and has more onboard fusing. Haven't actually heard them yet but, am eager to. Would love to see the tiny power supplies in these things.

By the way, has anyone had any experiences with the Picasso Nano's? Are they simply rebadged Power Acoustik Razors? They are VERY small.


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## jimithing

So there's really not enough of a difference in quality of components used to make one amp sound different from another? What about longevity of an amp based on quality of components?


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## meccanoble

There is a difference in sound quality between amps. I went from TRU Steel amps to Alpine PDX and I can hear a difference. I'm not sure what it is but it just sounds more lively. Using same speakers, and same songs. Maybe with subs you wont notice a difference but there will be a difference with sound coming from tweets/mids.


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## trumpet

jimithing said:


> So there's really not enough of a difference in quality of components used to make one amp sound different from another? What about longevity of an amp based on quality of components?


Not all Class D full range amplifiers are equally "good". Noise is something that the design needs to properly address, both in noise rejection on the input side and noise filtering for the output. AM/FM radio interference can happen with some of these amplifiers, with the JL HD line as one example. From what I understand, if the design properly addresses these issues then it will also have good quality components to last many years of use.


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## JVD240

meccanoble said:


> There is a difference in sound quality between amps. I went from TRU Steel amps to Alpine PDX and I can hear a difference. I'm not sure what it is but it just sounds more lively. Using same speakers, and same songs. Maybe with subs you wont notice a difference but there will be a difference with sound coming from tweets/mids.


Exact same power output?


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## BuickGN

I've noticed that more power always makes everything sound more "lively" no matter what amp is being used.


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## 07azhhr

Ya the more power was probably the reason for the "liveliness". Aren't the Steel 2 ch and 4 ch's 25x4 or 50x4? The PDX's are what 100 per channel?


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## JVD240

07azhhr said:


> Ya the more power was probably the reason for the "liveliness". Aren't the Steel 2 ch and 4 ch's 25x4 or 50x4? The PDX's are what 100 per channel?


My birth sheet for the V9 was like 134 and 550. 

These things are BEEEEEASTS. 

That's kind of what I was getting at. I experience it every day at work. Swap to a much more powerful amp and things suddenly sound much more dynamic.


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## pjc

I have a pair of Pioneer GM-D8604. Nice and small. Stout.


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## rmoltis

I like the infinity kappa four its 125x4 @ 4 ohms and 150x4 @ 2 ohms,
And the footprint is 13"L x 7-1/16"W x 1-3/4"H cost is around $280.

Compared to the alpine pdx-f6 alpines biggest 4ch runs 150x4 @ 4 ohms and 150x4 @ 2 ohms, and the footprint is 7-9/16"L x 10-1/8"W x 2"H cost is around $579.

The kappa is only about 2 7/8" bigger on its longest side, 
and 1/2" smaller on its smaller side, and 1/4" smaller height in comparison with the pdx. 
Granted the output at 4 ohms is 25 less rms watts. 
The $300 difference makes it a good value in comparison you would be able to buy 2 4 channels for that price. They have No noise floor and put out clean sound. I don't get any wierd noise through the speakers at all. I'm happy with them.


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## LovesMusic

BuickGN said:


> The MS8 added a little. So did my stock HU. I'm talking with the gains really cranked all the way. The MS8 was a small part of the noise floor. When I said the amps have no noise floor I'm talking with nothing going into the input or with the HU off.
> 
> To put it in perspective in order to get a significant noise floor with the MS8 hooked up I would have to have the gains cranked to where volume 10 of 40 was the loudest I could listen to. With everything adjusted normally there was no noise floor with the MS8.


Ahh, no input or HU off is a different story, but what word would be used to describe the faint noise when volume is say, up halfway 3/4, ipod hooked up but paused. 

It is inevidable noise no...? My signal chain is fine Brock, I believe I am just not trying to kid myself when I say none.. car audio isnt the ideal place.. Not that todays technology isnt damn good and plenty "low" enough..


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## Bayboy

Maybe the noise issue is more than I thought...  

In all of the systems I've installed I've only encountered noise in rare instances. Ever since the emergence of compact discs, that has never been a major problem. Even less of a concern when higher voltage preouts became popular. The most I've experienced after that was rca ground issues which is easily solved. 

I suppose I don't know what to listen for...


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## ChrisB

While I voted for the JL Audio HD, I really want to try the MMATS next.

Due to my negative experience with both a PDX-5 and a PDX-V9, no more Alpine for me.


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## Brute71

Really enjoying my PPI Phantoms, dead silent, great power, small footprint.

Also have an Alpine MRX-F30, good clean sounding amp, just doesnt quite have the pre-amp settings of the phantoms or the power.


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## 07azhhr

Brock_Landers said:


> This poll is really more about which is more popular, i.e. the JL and Alpine are big box brands that would have seen much more use than SS/MMATS/ARC/HERTZ/PPI. Those are more boutique brands.
> 
> Seems unfair to compare them unless someone really HAS used them all. I can safely say that the SS Nano's put out fantastic power, clean sound, and do it all while not taxing my charging system or introducing noise. They don't even heat up. Win/Win.


 
I liked my Phantom. If SS had their DSP out when I purchased my amps I would have stuck with my plan of switching over to the SS TN's. It sure would have made for an easier task of hiding my amp rack lol.


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## blazeplacid

Im currently running an NVX 900.5 and I am extremely happy with it.

It being fed signal from an Audison Bit ten D. Im pretty sure its the Audison that's making the amp sound so good.

I think this is the same board as the polk, ppi, etc amps.


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## langer

I run a PN4.520d. It is crazy small. It sounds good and gets loud for the size. 

However, there are a few negative factors. It has a quite loud static hiss, which may be because I'm using line level inputs.. Not sure. More importantly, reliability is suspect. One channel blew after only one day of use at a very low, wife approved volume. Worse, Soundstream's support has been, for me, apathetic and slow. Although we've been going back and forth for months, they never seem to remember who I am or that I am in Canada. I usually have to email them or call them a couple times to get any kind of reply. My amp blew in February, and 25 emails later, having shipped it there and back; it's still broken and on a truck to their headquarters for the second time. I did customer support for years, so I sympathize, but it shouldn't be that hard!


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## nervewrecker

I keep seeing mention of the soundstream TN nano amps, they really that good to be classed with these other amps? 
Reason for asking is that im actually contemplating trying them.


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## Golden Ear

ChrisB said:


> While I voted for the JL Audio HD, I really want to try the MMATS next.
> 
> Due to my negative experience with both a PDX-5 and a PDX-V9, no more Alpine for me.


Chris, I'm about to purchase the V9 and so i was looking it up on here. What was your negative experience with it? Thanks in advance!


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## subwoofery

Golden Ear said:


> Chris, I'm about to purchase the V9 and so i was looking it up on here. What was your negative experience with it? Thanks in advance!


Noise... Try to search for his small reviews... He has done a few on his V9 

Kelvin


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## rexroadj

If they ever get "here" (states) I want to get my hands on one of these! Knowing/trusting/loving the company......I imagine they are VERY nice! 

Ground Zero GZUA 2250DX


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## Brian Steele

subwoofery said:


> Noise... Try to search for his small reviews... He has done a few on his V9


If it suffers from noise, its insides would have to be significantly different from the F6 or M12. I haven't had any noise issues with my PDX amps.


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## Brian Steele

subwoofery said:


> Noise... Try to search for his small reviews... He has done a few on his V9


If it suffers from noise, its insides would have to be significantly different from the F6 or M12. I haven't had any noise issues with my PDX amps.


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## gckless

Other for sure. Why is Zed not on this list??????? And MMATS?


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## Golden Ear

subwoofery said:


> Noise... Try to search for his small reviews... He has done a few on his V9
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks Kelvin. I started doing that after I posted


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## gckless

I'm just gonna leave this right here....

Leviathan III


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## ChrisB

Brian Steele said:


> If it suffers from noise, its insides would have to be significantly different from the F6 or M12. I haven't had any noise issues with my PDX amps.


My V9 had turn on/off pop and hiss. The person who purchased it from me didn't notice the hiss, but he did have the same issues with the turn on/off pop.

My PDX-5 suffered from hiss.

Now for all the naysayers who will blame my install by saying I routed my RCAs too close to the power wire or too close to other interference causing vehicle electronics, replacing both amplifiers solved my hiss issue. As a result of my non-scientific deductive reasoning, I blame the PDX amplifiers.

Now is it possible that I received two bad amplifiers? Yes it most certainly is. Will I give Alpine PDX amplifiers a try again in the future? Maybe... That MMATS amplifier is the one I really want to try next though.


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## Golden Ear

Chris, thanks for taking the time to answer my question directly and share your experience. I hope that your experience is one of very few because I've spoken to a fee people that love their V9. I think I'll give it a try...and if I have issues maybe we can trade war stories


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## Subie13

I just installed a PDX 9V without any noise problems. If turn up the gain on the amp too much you will get hiss without any input. I have no pops or crackles on startup, if you do I would check your ground wires.


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## Brian Steele

ChrisB said:


> My V9 had turn on/off pop and hiss. The person who purchased it from me didn't notice the hiss, but he did have the same issues with the turn on/off pop.


My M12 would *sometimes* produce a very small pop when turning on. I consider it a non-issue. Others might be a bit more picky .


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## therapture

JVD240 said:


> My birth sheet for the V9 was like 134 and 550.
> 
> These things are BEEEEEASTS.
> 
> That's kind of what I was getting at. I experience it every day at work. Swap to a much more powerful amp and things suddenly sound much more dynamic.


I think that's what I found with my V9 vs. my old school A/B Crunch amp, the Crunch was "rated" at 135w x 2 RMS...the V9 is minimum 100w x 4 (and a ****load more, at 14.4v).

The alpine seems a bit brighter/crisper...but it could be that my mids are just getting more power than before, regardless of what the "rating" says, I suspect that Crunch was a bit over exuberant on their power ratings.


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## therapture

Subie13 said:


> I just installed a PDX 9V without any noise problems. If turn up the gain on the amp too much you will get hiss without any input. I have no pops or crackles on startup, if you do I would check your ground wires.


Same here, no noise issues of any kind. I ran new 4ga power and ground though. Very clean and proper wiring. Very low amp gains due to my 3sixty.3.


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## preston

I've been very happy with the Pioneer DRS-P800. I almost wish my system was a setup to show as these little black amps are so small and elegant and symmetrical. I have one powering my horns, one powering my rear fill, and two bridged acting as mono-blocks for my mid woofers. AT $155 apiece, I almost can't afford to NOT buy them LOL. 2*[email protected] ohms, 2*[email protected] or 300Wrms [email protected] No x-overs or filters either which I consider a good thing.


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## Golden Ear

preston said:


> I've been very happy with the Pioneer DRS-P800. I almost wish my system was a setup to show as these little black amps are so small and elegant and symmetrical. I have one powering my horns, one powering my rear fill, and two bridged acting as mono-blocks for my mid woofers. AT $155 apiece, I almost can't afford to NOT buy them LOL. 2*[email protected] ohms, 2*[email protected] or 300Wrms [email protected] No x-overs or filters either which I consider a good thing.


I couldn't find that amp with a google search. Are they old?


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## subwoofery

Golden Ear said:


> I couldn't find that amp with a google search. Are they old?


PRS-D800 

Kelvin


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## Golden Ear

subwoofery said:


> PRS-D800
> 
> Kelvin


There it is lol. Thanks K!


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## a-minus

I've also been really happy with my PRS-D800. It's a really clean sounding amp for the money. And I love how sleek they look. I had one complaint with it, but I can't remember exactly what it was (must not have been that big of deal). I'll have to think on that...


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## Golden Ear

Well, I installed my new pdx-v9 today and wouldn't you know it, the turn-on pop from the subwoofer is there, the hiss was there at first but seems to have disappeared, and there is engine/alt whine coming from my front stage. So disappointed! Just out of curiousity, Chris, where you using a processor? If so, which one? Not sure it could be a bad relationship between the amp and my Ms8 but I haven't had this pop from the sub with any of the last 3 sub amps I've had in the car. The amp is the only thing that has changed. Does that pretty much mean its a bad/defective amp?


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## therapture

Have you delayed the turn on output from the amp in the dsp settings? Or what are you using to send turn on signal to the amp?

I have my amps tied to ignition switch turn on, no pop-I just used the factory turn on signal that used to go to the stock amp in the trunk. I like to be able to listen to my stereo with just the key to the first position, not turning on lights, a/c, etc.

I love my amp. Hope you get your pop fixed.


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## ChrisB

Golden Ear said:


> Well, I installed my new pdx-v9 today and wouldn't you know it, the turn-on pop from the subwoofer is there, the hiss was there at first but seems to have disappeared, and there is engine/alt whine coming from my front stage. So disappointed! Just out of curiousity, Chris, where you using a processor? If so, which one? Not sure it could be a bad relationship between the amp and my Ms8 but I haven't had this pop from the sub with any of the last 3 sub amps I've had in the car. The amp is the only thing that has changed. Does that pretty much mean its a bad/defective amp?


I tried with both my Pioneer DEH-80PRS and my Clarion DXZ-785USB. I also tried an ipod directly connected to it with a toggle switch to turn it on and off. Regardless, it was the amp and replacing it solved my problem.


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## Golden Ear

ChrisB said:


> I tried with both my Pioneer DEH-80PRS and my Clarion DXZ-785USB. I also tried an ipod directly connected to it with a toggle switch to turn it on and off. Regardless, it was the amp and replacing it solved my problem.


That's exactly what I'm finding. I've had 3 other sub amps in my car and this is the only one to have it. I had a Diamond audio d5 600.1 and a jl 500/1 both with the ms8 and neither did it. The v9 sounds great other than the pop so I hope I can get one that doesn't do it.


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## Golden Ear

therapture said:


> Have you delayed the turn on output from the amp in the dsp settings? Or what are you using to send turn on signal to the amp?
> 
> I have my amps tied to ignition switch turn on, no pop-I just used the factory turn on signal that used to go to the stock amp in the trunk. I like to be able to listen to my stereo with just the key to the first position, not turning on lights, a/c, etc.
> 
> I love my amp. Hope you get your pop fixed.


I have the remote lead from the head unit to the ms8 and then to the v9. I only get the pop when I have the key turned to the acc position with the stereo on and then I turn the car on. Like I said tho, it only happens with this amp and no others.


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## robtr8

I'm very happy with my PRS-D800's and PDX-M6. I used a couple of the new GM-D8604's on a ski buddies MasterCraft, unbridged for the in-boats and bridged for the JL's on the tower. Sound great, look great. I tried a Leviathan III in my Response but it sounded hurt. Swapped into the Zuki and OMG, huge improvement.


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## Design

Fellow Pioneer class D user. GM-D9500F for the components and GM-D7400M for the sub. Runs surprisingly cool for such a small amp.


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## nismos14

Running GM-D8604 and GM-D9601, tons of power, great sound, very nice looking.


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## glenmc

Its not big time for money but the BAMF 4000 by power acustic has to be my choice I've had it for 2 years now I drive 40 miles a day to work let me tell you I beat the hell out of this amp and not once have I ever heard a chirp crack pop or hiss out of it .now on the other way I had a kicker2+2 that made more noise than my ol ladies hair drier ....! So like I said there on the low end on price but the quality has been great!


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## Wy2quiet

nismos14 said:


> Running GM-D8604 and GM-D9601, tons of power, great sound, very nice looking.


Never even saw them until now. Interesting. Great pricing and CEA certified. Wish someone would bench them or at least Oscope them to see if they are underrated


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## pjc

Wy2quiet said:


> Never even saw them until now. Interesting. Great pricing and CEA certified. Wish someone would bench them or at least Oscope them to see if they are underrated


I'm running a pair of the GM-D8604. Nice choice. Great prices.


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## soundcontrol

I enjoyed my Alpine pdx1000 but I prefer the Fosgate stuff I have tried even more. More power that is scary. Built for war.


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## Bayboy

Wy2quiet said:


> Never even saw them until now. Interesting. Great pricing and CEA certified. Wish someone would bench them or at least Oscope them to see if they are underrated


I'm willing to bet they are if they followed suit from their predecessor. What's odd though is the 8604's 1 ohm stability in stereo but only stable 4 ohm bridged. 

Voiced through your mids on-axis!


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## scionboxrox

I am running a pair of the GM-D8604 amps 3 way active front and a GM-D9601 for sub. Love the size of the amps and ample power. Pioneer did a great job with these. I would love to try the PRS-D800 though too.


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## Audiophyle

langer said:


> I run a PN4.520d. It is crazy small. It sounds good and gets loud for the size.
> 
> However, there are a few negative factors. It has a quite loud static hiss, which may be because I'm using line level inputs.. Not sure. More importantly, reliability is suspect. One channel blew after only one day of use at a very low, wife approved volume. Worse, Soundstream's support has been, for me, apathetic and slow. Although we've been going back and forth for months, they never seem to remember who I am or that I am in Canada. I usually have to email them or call them a couple times to get any kind of reply. My amp blew in February, and 25 emails later, having shipped it there and back; it's still broken and on a truck to their headquarters for the second time. I did customer support for years, so I sympathize, but it shouldn't be that hard!


I have a Picasso Nano 4.520D and it is absolutely dead silent, sounds great, & really belts out the power. Ive only had it installed for a couple days now, but its gotten several hours of continuous play at very high volume. It was a significant upgrade from the PBR300.4 I had for sure.


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## colaroaster

I voted for the Soundstream Nano, only because it's the only Class D amp I've owned or heard.


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## haemphyst

I hear people saying that there is no difference in SQ in Class D amplifiers. In my opinion, there is far more difference in Class D than there EVER was in Class A/B gear. Switching frequency, filter frequency, filter slope, filter DEVICE quality, air core vs. sintered iron core inductors... ALL of these make a huge difference in the overall sound quality of a Class D amplifier.

Ever wonder why there are some Class D's out there that say "subwoofer amp", or have a rated frequency response of 15 to 250Hz? Switching frequency. Try running one of those on a mid-range driver, or even worse, a tweeter. Will they *DO* 20kHz? Sure, but they'll sound like ****. The filters assure low overall power output at those frequencies (think low-pass crossover), but they certainly WILL output highs.

When shopping Class D, I was asking real questions. Technical questions that dug deep. My first was "What is the switching frequency". I chose the PDX amps, because of theirs. 300kHz. This means that, even at 20kHz audio output frequency, there are still 15 0/1 samples in one audio wavelength. A good start. I know now that there are devices out there that will do far beyond that, but I'm happy with what I have, and I really don't have the fundage necessary to "upgrade". Beside that fact, I really feel I'm at the point of diminishing returns... WAY too much cash would be required to advance beyond where I am right now... Ideally, you also want your low-pass filter knee to be 2X the highest frequency you want to reproduce faithfully. I'm really happy with the first gen PDX gear I have (A 1.1000, and a pair of 4.150's). Additionally, they're really powerful for their size.

No... there are major differences in SQ in Class D. Don't try to fool yourselves, kiddies! :2thumbsup:


----------



## boricua69

mattyjman said:


> all amps sound the same -- take your pick.


 I don't agree. For example; Mmats class d full range 6ch sound much better than Phoenix Gold Sd 5 ch and anyone can notice the difference.


----------



## Randyman...

haemphyst said:


> My first was "What is the switching frequency". I chose the PDX amps, because of theirs. 300kHz.


FWIW - JL HD's use a 400KHz switching frequency  NTM top notch components throughout. They gladly got my money...


----------



## rexroadj

There will soon be a new class D that will sit above the rest......stay tuned 
Sorry JL HD......you had a GREAT run! Nothing wrong with second place.


----------



## nismos14

I have to say it's a tough fight for me between the Massive Audio Nano Bits and the Pioneer GM-D series. The nano bit is phenomenal and SO unbelievably small.


----------



## Golden Ear

rexroadj said:


> There will soon be a new class D that will sit above the rest......stay tuned
> Sorry JL HD......you had a GREAT run! Nothing wrong with second place.


Mosconi is going to make a class D???


----------



## rexroadj

Golden Ear said:


> Mosconi is going to make a class D???


Sorry.....not even on there best day


----------



## [email protected]

The HD isn't really the small foot print JL, this would be the XD. 

HD has the 'Slash' style features such as same power into differing impedances and flexible signal routing, XD is truly tiny and does all most folks need.


----------



## rexroadj

[email protected] said:


> The HD isn't really the small foot print JL, this would be the XD.
> 
> HD has the 'Slash' style features such as same power into differing impedances and flexible signal routing, XD is truly tiny and does all most folks need.


and there are two parts to the thread  (class D)

And of course they are still considered "small footprint".....just cause the XD is smaller doesnt make the HD non small foot print.


----------



## jcmorong

Does anybody listen the zapco st5d?


----------



## deeper1

Arc Audio Xdi 1000.1 to be specific.


----------



## boricua69

Golden Ear said:


> Mosconi is going to make a class D???


Mosquito; sorry Mosconi class D! still made in china.


----------



## boricua69

rexroadj said:


> There will soon be a new class D that will sit above the rest......stay tuned
> Sorry JL HD......you had a GREAT run! Nothing wrong with second place.


Jl Audio HD never was in the 1st place. Maybe in the poll results.


----------



## rexroadj

boricua69 said:


> Jl Audio HD never was in 1st place.


Really? Then who was? Is? 

FYI-check the pole here too!


----------



## Bayboy

Pyramid/Legacy???


----------



## Wy2quiet

Why were people trashing the SD1300.5 before? A couple people have tested over 100w a channel @ 4 ohms on the PG forums. Couple that with 800 @ 2 ohms on the Sub channel, it seems to be a great option for a 5 channel.


----------



## boricua69

Wy2quiet said:


> Why were people trashing the SD1300.5 before? A couple people have tested over 100w a channel @ 4 ohms on the PG forums. Couple that with 800 @ 2 ohms on the Sub channel, it seems to be a great option for a 5 channel.


The 800.5 was the lemon; but was discontinue, the sd1300.5 have a lot of power but the new hybrid Class D sub ch and Class Ab 1 to 4 sound better.


----------



## Wy2quiet

boricua69 said:


> The 800.5 was the lemon; but was discontinue, the sd1300.5 have a lot of power but the new hybrid Class D sub ch and Class Ab 1 to 4 sound better.


Stop scaring me I just bought a used 1300.5 and haven't even received it yet 

The Ti2 1600.5 looks sick though.
200 watts x 4 channel / 2 Ohms
125 watts x 4 channel / 4 Ohms
800 Watts x 1 Channel / 2 Ohms
500 Watts x 1 Channel / 4 Ohms


----------



## boricua69

Wy2quiet said:


> Stop scaring me I just bought a used 1300.5 and haven't even received it yet
> 
> The Ti2 1600.5 looks sick though.
> 200 watts x 4 channel / 2 Ohms
> 125 watts x 4 channel / 4 Ohms
> 800 Watts x 1 Channel / 2 Ohms
> 500 Watts x 1 Channel / 4 Ohms


Relax bro, that amp is Ok, check the box and the amp, if you find a green sticker then you have to worry.


----------



## ramonesfan

Run an Alpine PDX-F6 and I'm a big fan, super clean power. Only issue is the DLS's are not very efficient (88db @ 150RMS) so the dynamics fade just a bit when I get it happy-happy-happy-loud. 
Put a PDX-V9 in one of our other cars, no sub yet, but its awesome with the 4xFocal's. Those speakers are much more efficient and the dynamics are amazing even at high levels.
Cannot speak about other amps, sure there's lots of goodness, my shop guys love the JL's.


----------



## BuickGN

haemphyst said:


> I hear people saying that there is no difference in SQ in Class D amplifiers. In my opinion, there is far more difference in Class D than there EVER was in Class A/B gear. Switching frequency, filter frequency, filter slope, filter DEVICE quality, air core vs. sintered iron core inductors... ALL of these make a huge difference in the overall sound quality of a Class D amplifier.
> 
> Ever wonder why there are some Class D's out there that say "subwoofer amp", or have a rated frequency response of 15 to 250Hz? Switching frequency. Try running one of those on a mid-range driver, or even worse, a tweeter. Will they *DO* 20kHz? Sure, but they'll sound like ****. The filters assure low overall power output at those frequencies (think low-pass crossover), but they certainly WILL output highs.
> 
> When shopping Class D, I was asking real questions. Technical questions that dug deep. My first was "What is the switching frequency". I chose the PDX amps, because of theirs. 300kHz. This means that, even at 20kHz audio output frequency, there are still 15 0/1 samples in one audio wavelength. A good start. I know now that there are devices out there that will do far beyond that, but I'm happy with what I have, and I really don't have the fundage necessary to "upgrade". Beside that fact, I really feel I'm at the point of diminishing returns... WAY too much cash would be required to advance beyond where I am right now... Ideally, you also want your low-pass filter knee to be 2X the highest frequency you want to reproduce faithfully. I'm really happy with the first gen PDX gear I have (A 1.1000, and a pair of 4.150's). Additionally, they're really powerful for their size.
> 
> No... there are major differences in SQ in Class D. Don't try to fool yourselves, kiddies! :2thumbsup:


I completely disagree. Ill put my HDs against any AB amp. There's a reason my McIntosh is collecting dust at home. I'm in Bakersfield too, you're more than welcome to listen.

If you're talking about differences between high end vs low end class D, I don't know, I've only run the higher end class D amps. Maybe there's a difference but I'm always hesitant to believe it considering people like my system when I lie about running class D and can somehow tell it has a "class D sound" if they know beforehand.


----------



## therapture

I don't know **** really. But I do know clean sound and pitch from a singing background, and my v9 sounds damn clear, if even sharp edged somewhat. The class d sounds worse on highs theory may have been true a while back...but I think technology has helped close the gap.


----------



## Golden Ear

therapture said:


> I don't know **** really. But I do know clean sound and pitch from a singing background, and my v9 sounds damn clear, if even sharp edged somewhat. The class d sounds worse on highs theory may have been true a while back...but I think technology has helped close the gap.


I've got the V9 as well and my system sounds great with it. Other than a pop and a whine I'm lovin it. I'm putting an hd600/4 in a different vehicle to try it out. I have high hopes because the amp I'm swapping it out for is a 25 year old class AB with the same power. Looking forward to hearing a difference


----------



## Wy2quiet

Went D and never looked back. Can't hear a difference.


----------



## a-minus

Is this thread bugged for anyone else? Keeps showing up at the top of my feed with the same post by Wy2quiet. Also, won't let me unsubscribe.


----------



## Wy2quiet

a-minus said:


> Is this thread bugged for anyone else? Keeps showing up at the top of my feed with the same post by Wy2quiet. Also, won't let me unsubscribe.


Thanks dude, so I am the reason for your pain? 

For the record, I believe *voting* re-ups the thread, which is what is happening to you.


----------



## Golden Ear

Wy2quiet said:


> Went D and never looked back. Can't hear a difference.


Same here. My hd600/4 works great! All the clean and clear power I need. Exactly what you'd expect from an amp.


----------



## .69077

Love my HD900/5. The last 5 channel I had took up the whole back of my rear seats.


----------



## CrossFired

I've listened to meny/most big brand class D, I find the pioneer ICE power amps sound best or at least as good as AB amps.


----------



## ndramountanis

Rockford T-1000-4ad... I never thought an amp that small could put out so much!


----------



## REGULARCAB

Oh lord ive been out of the loop way to long it seems. When did they start making full range class D amps? (serious question) I last did my system in my truck in 2009 and dont remember ever seeing a full range class D.


----------



## Jericho941

Full range D class have had a presence for several years, but only started to recieve much market share in the past 2-3 years. My first full range class D is my alpine PDX-F4 and it's the second generation of alpine's power density D class amps. I don't know if alpine had any class d full range before that, but I bought my amp in '11 so that may give an indication. 

The technology for full range digital amps has had some teething problems, but people are winning sound q competitions with them these days. There are still some bugs like problems with radio interference.

My last two sub amps were earlier D class (jbl bp1200.1 and kenwood excelon kac-x810d) and don't seem nearly as clean and powerful as my pdx-m12. My standards are very different now than those days, so I can't comment without bias. Both of my current amps are smaller and run cooler combined than 1 of my last amps, too.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Mmmmmmmm efficiency, me like.


----------



## bassfromspace

Infinity had a full-range class D in the mid 90's.


----------



## ChrisB

I still remember when the first class D amplifiers hit the market and the local shops did everything in their power to show the customers how much they sucked. These same shops are now pushing the hell out of the JL Audio HD/XD, Alpine PDX, and Kenwood Excelon full-range class Ds.

Hell, there was even this amplifier designer/manufacturer who had a FIVE PAGE report citing how full-range class D would NEVER work in the automobile. I forget his name, Zed something or other... Just search this forum and see how many people are bragging about how GREAT those amplifiers are. 

EDIT: I'm still torn between going with another JL Audio HD900/5 or the MMATS 6 channel...


----------



## ndramountanis

exile audio has a d class 5 channel amp for pretty cheap.... have you guys ever read up on that?


----------



## BGChicago

Although I have not heard any of the rest, Clarion XC1410 is super clean, static free and micro foot print.


----------



## crazyirish

Anyone heard the new NVX MVP Amps? They're really tiny. Like hide behind interior panels tiny. Seems like they might be the ticket for someone wanting to build a low power, low weight, small footprint setup. Assuming they're decently built of course.


----------



## kmbkk

I'm considering the new Zed Mikro amps. They're very small and I could fit 4 under my seats (2 each).


----------



## creed

kmbkk said:


> I'm considering the new Zed Mikro amps. They're very small and I could fit 4 under my seats (2 each).


Interesting; I always like Zed products; can't wait for it to be out and I guess 2 x 4-channel and 1 x Monoblock would be enough for a super nice setup.

I've recently put up the Vibe Litebox in my car; well for a start it sounded not convinced at all as I've just roughly dialed in the gain setting due to independent gain control per channel; after some fiddling it sounded actually quite good and I'm suprised on the quality the amp is churning out. Guess all these mini/micro sized amp came a loong way to what it is today


----------



## ImK'ed

Running pdx m12 besides for turn on/off pop , one of the cleanest sub amps ive heard and has incredible control over the bass even the very low notes are cleanly audible and dont sound muddy at all, and running at around 1000rms hardly makes my lights dim in my civic with stock battery and alt , no big 3 yet, and running mrx f35 on comps sounds good aswel clean at very high levels!


----------



## kmbkk

creed said:


> Interesting; I always like Zed products; can't wait for it to be out and I guess 2 x 4-channel and 1 x Monoblock would be enough for a super nice setup.


I've never owned any Zed products, so I'd like to wait and see some testing on them. If I do go with them, though, I'd get 2 of each to power my system. They're only 8”x5”x 1.5” in size, so very flexible for installation options.


----------



## gckless

kmbkk said:


> I've never owned any Zed products, so I'd like to wait and see some testing on them. If I do go with them, though, I'd get 2 of each to power my system. They're only 8”x5”x 1.5” in size, so very flexible for installation options.


Check this out: REVIEW: ZED Mikro IV

But I have to ask, why 4 of those instead of a bigger Zed amp? Unless you need that amount of channels, of course.


----------



## kmbkk

gckless said:


> Check this out: REVIEW: ZED Mikro IV
> 
> But I have to ask, why 4 of those instead of a bigger Zed amp? Unless you need that amount of channels, of course.


Thanks! I've also seen the review on caraudio.com. Why 4 of these? I have a 3-way active front stage that would utilize 2 of the 4-channel amps (1 channel each per tweeter & mid, and 2 channels bridged on each mid bass). I also have 2 subs that would utilize 2 of the mono-channel amps. I really lke the small footprint on these, as I can probably get them under the front seats in my car. I'm also considering the PDX-9V, but these really intrigue me.


----------



## gckless

kmbkk said:


> Thanks! I've also seen the review on caraudio.com. Why 4 of these? I have a 3-way active front stage that would utilize 2 of the 4-channel amps (1 channel each per tweeter & mid, and 2 channels bridged on each mid bass). I also have 2 subs that would utilize 2 of the mono-channel amps. I really lke the small footprint on these, as I can probably get them under the front seats in my car. I'm also considering the PDX-9V, but these really intrigue me.


Gotcha. If your pockets are deep enough, I would rock these Zeds.


----------



## Schramm

Well, I can't speak to the Zed Mikro, but it does appear to be a promising product given the size and and built in analog crossover. As pictured the crossover appears to go up to 3000 Hz LP/HP, which is not very common and would be great for an 8 channel based DSP all active system where more than 8 drivers are used, especially if 24dB per octave filter is employed. The heatsink on one end and all connections on the other side allows for a very compact installation.


----------



## silenced_recon

Just purchased the Kenwood XR400-4 a few days ago, havent had the chance to install it yet, but as soon I do I will report back. 

Just to get an idea on how small this little guy is.


----------



## ChrisB

Here's mine:


----------



## rc10mike

Old thread...but my HD600/4 sounded amazing when it wasnt paired with a Class D sub amp which caused hideous noise problems and then caused me to sell the amp!


----------



## Golden Ear

rc10mike said:


> Old thread...but my HD600/4 sounded amazing when it wasnt paired with a Class D sub amp which caused hideous noise problems and then caused me to sell the amp!


Interesting. I have my 600/4 paired with a 1200/1 and have no issues. How could "pairing" the two cause those problems?


----------



## rc10mike

Search for my noise problem thread if you want to find out more.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Biketronics amps, all Hypex based and sound better than anything I've heard. Not cheap but then again not bad compared to if you were building them yourself:

http://www.biketronics.com/categories/Amplifiers/

Downside is no dedicated subwoofer monoblock but you could ask them to throw two Ucd400's in the 180x4 or a single Ucd700 for some tiny audiophile bass.


----------



## luisc202

JL HD amps


----------



## a390st

Has anyone compared the Polk d5000.5 to the Kenwood xr900-5? I haven't made the purchase yet, but it looks like the Kenwood has a little more power for the sub.


----------



## Wy2quiet

a390st said:


> Has anyone compared the Polk d5000.5 to the Kenwood xr900-5? I haven't made the purchase yet, but it looks like the Kenwood has a little more power for the sub.


I would be a little worried about the Kenwood amps. When I owned my XR-4S it was always scorching hot, and it seems these newer models have the same issue.

Some of you might not care, but heat like that means a lot of wasted energy which in turn is a waste of gas and money. Not designed well at all.


----------



## tyroneshoes

Nah the kenwood has been in my car for 6 years no issues. 

JL HD and Kenwood sound the best in my experience


----------



## sirlemón

Kenwood XR-4s owner here also and have no heat issues whatsoever. I take 3 hour drives about every week and the amp has not even been warm to the touch afterwards. The fan, I think it has one has never turned on. I have the XR-1s also feeding two Morel Primo 124s and they can get a little warm but again, I don't think I will be using those to melt ice cubes any time soon. 

Sound quality wise, it gets louder than I care to listen to and has no audible distortion.


----------



## bigaudiofanatic

I've recently talked/listened with focal about their new FPD 900.6 and i have to say it will be what i'll be running for my setup. Very impressive clean sounding sub with musical tone. 

FPD 900.6 | Focal America


----------



## Bkp02

I've been happy with my Zed Lev III and Polk Audio PAD 900.5 and PAD 1000.1, first and only Class D amps I've owned. So far I smile a lot.


----------



## YoungClayB

I have a JL 700/5 and it's tiny, sounds awesome, and has independent cross overs for front, rear, and sub that are accurate. Good line of amps that will fit in a tight space if you ask me. They are pricey though.


----------



## 58458

Phoenix gold ti2 amps for the win!


----------



## Imagewerx

My Kicker Ix amps sound fantastic,but I'd be willing to put money on any equivalent amp sounding near as damnit the same.Maybe you'd JUST be able to hear the difference in the judging lanes of a sound off,but in a moving car with a V6 and loud but legal exhaust I very much doubt if anyone would hear the difference.


----------



## therapture

I doubt anyone could tell a difference between amps, provided:

1. amps in question are decent brands/quality
2. crossovers are matched
3. the same power is applied from each amp, i.e., equal sound levels when being compared.

Due to the nature of humans...if one amp is slightly louder/more watts than the other, that one would be perceived as "better".

As noted...if you can tell the difference between a JL HD and a PDX amplifier while driving down the road at 45mph, you need to apply at the Center of Superhuman Hearing


----------



## WestCo

Ppi is rock solid for the price


Visit mobileaudioforum.com for official SounDrive updates.


----------



## WestCo

Now there is of course better out there. I think arc has some new tiny amps being released and I am told they do very well.


Visit mobileaudioforum.com for official SounDrive updates.


----------



## tyroneshoes

therapture said:


> I doubt anyone could tell a difference between amps, provided:
> 
> 1. amps in question are decent brands/quality
> 2. crossovers are matched
> 3. the same power is applied from each amp, i.e., equal sound levels when being compared.
> 
> Due to the nature of humans...if one amp is slightly louder/more watts than the other, that one would be perceived as "better".
> 
> As noted...if you can tell the difference between a JL HD and a PDX amplifier while driving down the road at 45mph, you need to apply at the Center of Superhuman Hearing


The first series of pdx amps had a very obvious sonic signature and elevated noise floor. Alto Mobile digital amps sound more laid back than any other amps I have come across. The first series of pioneer ICE amps had high end roll off. Its not cut and dry like that


----------



## ChrisB

tyroneshoes said:


> The first series of pdx amps had a very obvious sonic signature and elevated noise floor. Alto Mobile digital amps sound more laid back than any other amps I have come across. The first series of pioneer ICE amps had high end roll off. Its not cut and dry like that


Class D amplifiers have evolved since their introduction and now are MUCH better than the early offerings. To date, the JL Audio HD900/5 was my favorite. I'm hoping the MMATS HIFI-6150D will be my next favorite.


----------



## Golden Ear

tyroneshoes said:


> Alto Mobile digital amps sound more laid back than any other amps I have come across.


Forgive me if I sound rude but I keep reading this term "laid back" to describe audio gear. Would you please explain exactly what that means? How is one amp more "laid back" than another? I've used a dozen different amps and I wouldn't use the term "laid back" to describe any of them but maybe that's just because I don't know what constitutes that description. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light, and again, apologies if this sounds rude, it's not my intention.


----------



## tyroneshoes

sounded warmish like vinyl. On midranges it was very noticeable. Anyone who has had these amps could tell you they sound different.

Kinda like how morel tweeters sound


----------



## rton20s

Wait, I always thought laid back amps were those amps which kept their mind on their money and their money on their mind?


----------



## ChrisB

rton20s said:


> Wait, I always thought laid back amps were those amps which kept their mind on their money and their money on their mind?


While sippin' on Gin and Juice? :laugh:


----------



## nismos14

Rollin' down the street, smokin indo, sippin on gin and juice, laid backkk


----------



## tyroneshoes

The amp now goes by alto lion


----------



## 1fishman

therapture said:


> I doubt anyone could tell a difference between amps, provided:
> 
> 1. amps in question are decent brands/quality
> 2. crossovers are matched
> 3. the same power is applied from each amp, i.e., equal sound levels when being compared.
> 
> Due to the nature of humans...if one amp is slightly louder/more watts than the other, that one would be perceived as "better".
> 
> As noted...if you can tell the difference between a JL HD and a PDX amplifier while driving down the road at 45mph, you need to apply at the Center of Superhuman Hearing


In a level bind test. I wonder if most could consistently pick the best (and or worst) amp in a quit room, between those 2, I'd add even add the Phantom and the ARC in the mix.


----------



## rton20s

In the recent test, very similar to what you described, that was conducted by a DIYMA member, the participants could not pick out the best (or worst) amp.


----------



## thebetaproject

tyroneshoes said:


> sounded warmish like vinyl. On midranges it was very noticeable. Anyone who has had these amps could tell you they sound different.


If the midrange and soundstage of the Alto could be welded with the detail and drive of the JL HD, I think we would have 'perfect' class D amp.


----------



## JimmyDee

I just installed a couple of the new Focal digital amps... very nice.

Worth consideration. 
Not cheap, but very, very nice digital amplifiers.
A huge improvement over their previous series.

FPD 900.6 | Focal America

FPD 900.1 | Focal America

FPD 600.4 | Focal America


----------



## subwoofery

jimmydee said:


> I just installed a couple of the new Focal digital amps... very nice.
> 
> Worth consideration.
> Not cheap, but very, very nice digital amplifiers.
> A huge improvement over their previous series.
> 
> FPD 900.6 | Focal America
> 
> FPD 900.1 | Focal America
> 
> FPD 600.4 | Focal America


Yep, made by the legendary Steve Mantz  

Kelvin


----------



## Babs

blazeplacid said:


> Im currently running an NVX 900.5 and I am extremely happy with it.
> 
> It being fed signal from an Audison Bit ten D. Im pretty sure its the Audison that's making the amp sound so good.
> 
> I think this is the same board as the polk, ppi, etc amps.


I hope to report back soon on NVX JAD800.4 and JAD1200.1 combo fed by a DEH-80PRS. Just from initial external looks, I'm impressed. You guys that know what you're looking at can judge these money shots:


















I guess they're in kahoots with Sonic at some form or another as possibly some kind of unofficial "house" brand or sister/mother company maybe. I suspect they'll run a simple SEAS Neo, Tang-Band W6, Dayton Ref HO combo well.

Sonic has youtubes up showing testing making better than rated power on their tester, which is good because I've gotta drive a Dayton HO 10" sealed for now until I get the 'itch' no pun intended, for fiberglassing a new box.


----------



## tyroneshoes

Babs said:


> I hope to report back soon on NVX JAD800.4 and JAD1200.1 combo fed by a DEH-80PRS. Just from initial external looks, I'm impressed. You guys that know what you're looking at can judge these money shots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they're in kahoots with Sonic at some form or another as possibly some kind of unofficial "house" brand or sister/mother company maybe. I suspect they'll run a simple SEAS Neo, Tang-Band W6, Dayton Ref HO combo well.
> 
> Sonic has youtubes up showing testing making better than rated power on their tester, which is good because I've gotta drive a Dayton HO 10" sealed for now until I get the 'itch' no pun intended, for fiberglassing a new box.


If youre talking about this driver

Tang Band W6-1721 6-1/2" Underhung Midbass Driver | 264-874

Loving your choices. 


try the new dayton titanics. 

Dayton Audio TS280D-4 10" Titanic Mk 4 Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 295-401

look great

Theres a NVX promotional van always parked by this small shop in NJ by me so theyre bigger than sonic


----------



## Babs

Actually I may disappoint but I went with the W6-789E which I can confirm sounds awesome in a 2-way. 

http://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w6-789e-6-1-2-woofer--264-852

And a Dayton Reference HO 4ohm.


----------



## c_nitty

Babs said:


> I hope to report back soon on NVX JAD800.4 and JAD1200.1 combo fed by a DEH-80PRS. Just from initial external looks, I'm impressed. You guys that know what you're looking at can judge these money shots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they're in kahoots with Sonic at some form or another as possibly some kind of unofficial "house" brand or sister/mother company maybe. I suspect they'll run a simple SEAS Neo, Tang-Band W6, Dayton Ref HO combo well.
> 
> Sonic has youtubes up showing testing making better than rated power on their tester, which is good because I've gotta drive a Dayton HO 10" sealed for now until I get the 'itch' no pun intended, for fiberglassing a new box.


*Please info us of the SQ when you can.*


----------



## Babs

When I can get it all installed is more like it.. Getting my garage shelf war-chest together because I'm tearing down the interior completely to fix a bunch of other stuff in the process. Deadening, wiring, etc. Instead of trunk install, I'm going under seats because since I'm scaling down to a 80PRS instead of stock into MS-8, so I'm thinking just simple old school under-seat install instead of trying to do something Shmanzy in the trunk.

When I get them in though I'll definitely report. I suspect they'll do well. The weakest link will be the rest of my install I'm sure. Damn stock tweeter locations. Still fighting that battle in my head on getting away from the stock spots. Been doing the math though to set the gain on these via AC V meter to do gains correctly. Probably something you guys take for granted as simple and easy.. Crank head, run test tone, turn gain till she clips. With the 80PRS from what I've seen, it's clean all the way up according to one guys distortion test on youtube. May be interesting.

The drivers in this build may be less than high-end or poorly matched maybe by many standards in here...
SEAS Neo Alums
TB W6-789E mids
Dayton HO 10 single sub
siiiiiimple and humble.

What I really wanna do is NVX (SB Acoustics) X series tweets and mids.. Not by coincidence of the same brand, but more I think they selected real winners by rebranding SB Acoustics drivers packaged for car install. Trick will be how to do the tweets in an 8th Civic sedan. Damn stock spots are killers. Starting to think blasphemic things like freakin' PVC cups, etc. Something.. Anything!

I imagine it'll be the best I've seen, coming from a humble and I mean HUMBLE and grainy kicker ZX700.5. Yeah I'm low to mid-fi.. Stepping up to better gear now finally. Ain't no Mosconi shtuff in this ride. hehe I've always been from the camp though put your dough in your speaks.. If you've gotta scrimp on cash, put the cash in the drivers. I'd rather rock B&W's from a Denon receiver than Polks from Krell separates.

.. In short.. You bet.. I'll report from some critical listening, etc.


----------



## blazeplacid

I run the NVX JAD900 and i love it

its being fed a signal from my Audioson Bit Ten D.

Nice and clear


----------



## c_nitty

blazeplacid said:


> I run the NVX JAD900 and i love it
> 
> its being fed a signal from my Audioson Bit Ten D.
> 
> Nice and clear


I was thinking about that amp have you tried it without the bit 10 say straight from a headunit?


----------



## blazeplacid

I have a G37 so I cant swap out the headunit with out heavy mods.

I may do the mods later but as of now im running the factory head unit.


----------



## theoldguy

The thing that is tough about these threads is that most responses are from a personal preference. How does one go about testing which amp "sounds the best"? How can we take these threads but with a grain of salt?


----------



## c_nitty

theoldguy said:


> The thing that is tough about these threads is that most responses are from a personal preference. How does one go about testing which amp "sounds the best"? How can we take these threads but with a grain of salt?


You have to take people's opinions though it may sound different to you if most people say an amp or speakers sound like **** then chances are it does.


----------



## garysummers

I know of a very controlled unbiased A/B blind test between the JL and the Alpine.
Conclusion: indistinguishable difference! Both excellent class D amplifiers.


----------



## Golden Ear

garysummers said:


> I know of a very controlled unbiased A/B blind test between the JL and the Alpine.
> Conclusion: indistinguishable difference! Both excellent class D amplifiers.


I have to agree. I'm using both in two different vehicles and couldn't be happier.


----------



## bbfoto

garysummers said:


> I know of a very controlled unbiased A/B blind test between the JL and the Alpine.
> Conclusion: indistinguishable difference! Both excellent class D amplifiers.


Thanks Gary. Means a lot coming from you.


----------



## garysummers

Just to clarify, I did not take part in the test. Just passing on the conclusion.


----------



## bbfoto

garysummers said:


> Just to clarify, I did not take part in the test. Just passing on the conclusion.


LOL, Null & Void, then!   Thanks for the disclosure. :thumbsup:


----------



## cleansoundz

This is good stuff.


----------



## 1fishman

gregerst22 said:


> Best class d amp? I dunno. but the newer Alpine PDX are pretty good imo. Crystal clear with virtually no noise floor, high dynamics and plenty of power. The street prices are excellent as well. I think they're very underrated here on this forum. *Sure you can pickup a PPI phantom for about half the price but those amps sound lifeless, no dynamics*.


Seriously? I have never done a side by side comparison so i really don't know. but it's dynamics is one thing i would not have thought the phantom lacks.


----------



## Bayboy

First let's look at the very definition of dynamics- "variation and contrast in force or intensity". Plain & simple this relates to how much reserve power is left during normal listening levels needed for such peaks which is why so many use gobs of power per channel vs what the driver handles thermally though they aren't actually pushing every bit of power continuously. The driver would simply burn up!

In that regards, just about any amp can have dynamics IF it's reserves is not being used up. It's listening level related and you should be able to tell if you're running close to an amplifier's limits.


----------



## JimmyDee

These amplifiers have not disappointed...designed by Steve Mantz (Zed Audio).

Check 'em out: Focal Power Digital


----------



## tyroneshoes

I like that 900.6


----------



## Starlet-SQ

same here...these amps look sexy
anybody tested these already??
i saw fuse ratings 3 times 20A
yet it puts out s much power
is that correct??


----------



## JimmyDee

Starlet-SQ said:


> same here...these amps look sexy
> anybody tested these already??


I'be been running them in my car for about 4 months now... They're amazing. Big power - small package.

Jimmy


----------



## cleansoundz

I know how lifeless sounds on class D full range. RF had a full range class D that sounded lifeless. It doesn't have anything to do with reserve power available. The Alpine F4 and JL XD 400/4 amps sound great and have great dynamics unlike other class d full range amps that I heard.


----------



## Bayboy

Can you give details to what contributed to the differences in sound?


----------



## CIGARGUY

Anyone have feedback on the PPI Atoms yet? I've had my eye on these due to the small footprint.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

CIGARGUY said:


> Anyone have feedback on the PPI Atoms yet? I've had my eye on these due to the small footprint.


I thought these had not shipped yet...


----------



## CIGARGUY

You would have far more knowledge than I would. That definitely may be the case.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Can't wait to see what they do, especially the monos.


----------



## Wy2quiet

Does anyone have any actual numbers from the Atom/Soundstream stealth boards??

I really want to know!!!


----------



## Bayboy

Too early to tell. I'm not even sure any of it has shipped yet.


----------



## 1fishman

gregerst22 said:


> I replaced a PPI 900.4 with a PDX-F6, they are roughly the same power rating, and the difference in the dynamics is very noticeable. I actually replaced 3 Phantom amps with 3 Alpines. The main reason i switched was because my system did not sound like I wanted it to. It was missing something and I knew what it was. Dynamics. It's not like it didn't have any it absolutely did and my system sounded good. But I wanted more than that I wanted it to sound excellent. The Phantoms also seemed to have more distortrion when pushed hard. But they are good amps for the money and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to somebody that's on a tight budget or doesn't want that level of detail.


Good to know. I'll be doing a side by side shortly i have to hear this for myself. Thanks


----------



## cleansoundz

Bayboy said:


> Can you give details to what contributed to the differences in sound?


I would have to attribute that to the RF amp, no doubt.


----------



## c_nitty

How did it work for you?


Babs said:


> I hope to report back soon on NVX JAD800.4 and JAD1200.1 combo fed by a DEH-80PRS. Just from initial external looks, I'm impressed. You guys that know what you're looking at can judge these money shots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they're in kahoots with Sonic at some form or another as possibly some kind of unofficial "house" brand or sister/mother company maybe. I suspect they'll run a simple SEAS Neo, Tang-Band W6, Dayton Ref HO combo well.
> 
> Sonic has youtubes up showing testing making better than rated power on their tester, which is good because I've gotta drive a Dayton HO 10" sealed for now until I get the 'itch' no pun intended, for fiberglassing a new box.


----------



## cleansoundz

The new Alpine PDR amps sound very nice. I had one before I traded it in for my F4


----------



## Babs

c_nitty said:


> How did it work for you?



Sorry for the delay. Dunno yet. I'm finally working on it but only at this point at the moment with Babcock FA5 tunes take-2.


----------



## kaigoss69

I've been looking like crazy but I can't find the amp combination I need. I currently have an HD600 and an HD900. What I want is two amps, with the same footprint as the HD's, that will do the following at minimum:

Sub: 800W x 1 @ 2 ohms 
Midbass: 250W x 2 @ 4 ohms
Highs: 150W x 2 @ 4 ohms

My current config only gives me 500W for the sub which is fine most of the time, but on some occasions I'd like to have more power on tap. My requirements for the highs and mids are met with the current amps. I'd like to avoid getting a third amp. Anybody stumble across a platform that I may have overlooked and will work in my case?


----------



## papasin

kaigoss69 said:


> I've been looking like crazy but I can't find the amp combination I need. I currently have an HD600 and an HD900. What I want is two amps, with the same footprint as the HD's, that will do the following at minimum:
> 
> Sub: 800W x 1 @ 2 ohms
> Midbass: 250W x 2 @ 4 ohms
> Highs: 150W x 2 @ 4 ohms
> 
> My current config only gives me 500W for the sub which is fine most of the time, but on some occasions I'd like to have more power on tap. My requirements for the highs and mids are met with the current amps. I'd like to avoid getting a third amp. Anybody stumble across a platform that I may have overlooked and will work in my case?



The amps mentioned in post 178 perhaps? An FPD 900.6 and a 900.1. You could bridge two pairs of channels of the 900.6, and then get the following:

Sub: 900W x 1 @ 2 ohms 
Midbass: 400W x 2 @ 4 ohms
Highs: 150W x 2 @ 4 ohms


----------



## kaigoss69

papasin said:


> The amps mentioned in post 178 perhaps? An FPD 900.6 and a 900.1. You could bridge two pairs of channels of the 900.6, and then get the following:
> 
> Sub: 900W x 1 @ 2 ohms
> Midbass: 400W x 2 @ 4 ohms
> Highs: 150W x 2 @ 4 ohms


Believe me, I am strongly considering those, but they do NOT have the footprint of the HD's...


----------



## cleansoundz

gregerst22 said:


> From what I understand JL and Alpine use higher quality MOSFETS, their own custom processors and other higher quality parts. All of which leads to better sounding and performing class d amps. If the Phantoms had sounded as good as the PDX's I would have kept them. But the difference to my ears were significant enough that it was worth making the switch.


I would have to agree with that statement. Of all the class d full range amps i used the F4, PDR f50, xd 400/4 and RF T400X4AD are the best sounding that I have ever heard.


----------



## sqnut

Y'all should take the Richard Clark test and make an easy $ 10K. I wonder how many of you'll who claim an audible difference between A & B, made sure that that output on A & B was perfectly matched prior to the test? As in measured and made sure for yourself.


----------



## cleansoundz

I would like to do that test as well. I would like to hear some of the PPI, RF Prime series and a few other swap meet amps vs alpine, jl audio, RF power, arc audio and Focal amps gain and level matched playing my music for a full day.


----------



## Lanson

sqnut said:


> Y'all should take the Richard Clark test and make an easy $ 10K. I wonder how many of you'll who claim an audible difference between A & B, made sure that that output on A & B was perfectly matched prior to the test? As in measured and made sure for yourself.


There should be a bet placed on any amp SQ thread, where people gamble what post in the thread the RC amp test is mentioned. Sorta like they used to do with Adam Carolla's radio show, where they had to guess where the accordion would start playing in Mexican music.

In this case, those that guessed post #201 would take home the jackpot.


----------



## sqnut

fourthmeal said:


> There should be a bet placed on any amp SQ thread, where people gamble what post in the thread the RC amp test is mentioned. Sorta like they used to do with Adam Carolla's radio show, where they had to guess where the accordion would start playing in Mexican music.
> 
> In this case, those that guessed post #201 would take home the jackpot.


Based on our POV maybe we should swap amps


----------



## Lanson

sqnut said:


> Based on our POV maybe we should swap amps


I actually bet yours sound better but the challenge is very tempting. I think I would end up with the better deal however, lol.

Now when I get my DLS amps, maybe it would be more fair.

I would say the difference between yours and mine would be audible primarily because mine are Class D full-range, and yours are simply glorious.


----------



## nanoodhaliwal

Hi guys, I read through all the thread and need some help.

I need amp to power my 3 way setup, for now will use factory speakers (1" tweeter, 2.5" mids and 6.5 woofer) with one 12" sub (which I still have to buy most probably GCON). I was planning to use PPI amps but now after reading this thread wanted to look for different options. Budget less the better but can increase if really needed.

I was thinking 2 (Alpine PDX F4/Zed Micro/ Kenwood XR400), but not sure if I will have enough power for my subwoofer with two bridge channels.

Maybe Kenwood XR900 + XR400 and use couple extra channels for rear fill or bridge them and power my 6.5" woofers. 

Please advice if these amps are good or I will be better with Zed Micro or Alpine. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## nanoodhaliwal

^^ Anyone who can help me here ??


----------



## Golden Ear

I've had really good luck with alpine pdx amps. What about doing an F4 and an F6 or an F4 and a V9? I'm using an F6 and a V9 in my Tahoe right now and it's working out great! 150 to tweets and mids, 200 to midbasses and 500 to sub. The actual numbers are higher because the f6 actually puts out 175x4 and the v9 puts out 125x4 and 560 for sub.


----------



## Lanson

I just don't think you'll hear a difference between the ones you mentioned, _nanoodhaliwal_


----------



## nanoodhaliwal

Golden Ear said:


> I've had really good luck with alpine pdx amps. What about doing an F4 and an F6 or an F4 and a V9? I'm using an F6 and a V9 in my Tahoe right now and it's working out great! 150 to tweets and mids, 200 to midbasses and 500 to sub. The actual numbers are higher because the f6 actually puts out 175x4 and the v9 puts out 125x4 and 560 for sub.


Thanks for your input. Yeah I was looking at V9 but it's kind of out of my budget little bit. If i needed one amp I would have gone with V9.
Maybe if you can guide me where to buy this stuff from ? I am keeping and eye on classified section.

Kenwood is pretty cheap compared to Alpine so I was thinking maybe mix and match if that is not a problem.



fourthmeal said:


> I just don't think you'll hear a difference between the ones you mentioned, _nanoodhaliwal_


You mean even with PPI amp ?


----------



## momax_powers

nanoodhaliwal said:


> Thanks for your input. Yeah I was looking at V9 but it's kind of out of my budget little bit. If i needed one amp I would have gone with V9.
> Maybe if you can guide me where to buy this stuff from ? I am keeping and eye on classified section.
> 
> Kenwood is pretty cheap compared to Alpine so I was thinking maybe mix and match if that is not a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean even with PPI amp ?


Those PPI phantom amps are pretty good budget amps...sonic has the p900.4 for 169 right now ...a pair of those could run your 3way + sub nicely


----------



## ben54b

I'm running ppi 900.4 bridged to my mids at the moment and have used it on mids and WIDEBANDS and the sound is great. Maybe you can hear a difference in the driveway dead silent no motor running , when you start the car I reckon it's game over. As a side point the four time Aussie champ runs a pair of 900.4s so they can't be too bad. 
Might have to get another from sonic for front as well hmmm 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lizardking

ben54b said:


> I'm running ppi 900.4 bridged to my mids at the moment and have used it on mids and WIDEBANDS and the sound is great. Maybe you can hear a difference in the driveway dead silent no motor running , when you start the car I reckon it's game over. As a side point the four time Aussie champ runs a pair of 900.4s so they can't be too bad.
> Might have to get another from sonic for front as well hmmm
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the PPI 900.4 bridged to a pair of Scan-Speak Revelators.....great amp and it's dead silent.


----------



## Babs

Sorry forgot about this thread.. Ok.. Speaks are NVX (SB Acoustics) Ring Radiators and currently Tang Band W6-789E mids in front 2-way being run off the NVX JAD800.4. I can confirm clean, quiet and powerful. The amp gets the job done. The 1200.1 also brings it. Considering their physical size these are good versions of the "clone" amps. Not much to tell, they bring it, and it sounds fabulous. No strain, no muss no fuss.. Running off of a Helix DSP crossing actively prior to the amps running full-pass. General rough in for gains setting from a DMM.

That said, one installation observation concerning "small footprint". It's probably been said before.. When the cabling is on each side of the amp (power one side, signal the other) it significantly reduces the effectiveness of the amp's small footprint and makes install a bit larger in actuality because of cables. 

So, that said, there's definitely in my opinion, value in the designs where all connections are on the back side of the amp, such as JL XD/HD, Rockford, etc.

But for the cash, these amps I believe will serve me well for my little budget build in the Civic.


----------



## Jepalan

Babs said:


> ...When the cabling is on each side of the amp (power one side, signal the other) it significantly reduces the effectiveness of the amp's small footprint and makes install a bit larger in actuality because of cables.


^^ this. Excellent point. Exactly why I just ordered the Alpine PDR-V75 for my project.


----------



## Babs

Jepalan said:


> ^^ this. Excellent point. Exactly why I just ordered the Alpine PDR-V75 for my project.



Those are really starting to appeal to me.


----------



## gumbeelee

mattyjman said:


> all amps sound the same -- take your pick.


Not true


----------



## Jepalan

mattyjman said:


> all amps sound the same -- take your pick.





gumbeelee said:


> Not true


There is a whole thread already dedicated to this argument. Feel free to post there-->
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-truth-myths-industry-dogma/141216-higher-end-amp-sq-myth.html


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Which car runs better, a 2014 jaguar or a 2014 Kia Rio?
Obviously the jaguar has a *better build quality*, better resale value, better internals and engine, but the Rio is cheap and appeases to the masses. Take your pick on the amp and freakin enjoy your music


----------



## lizardking

I would take the Kia due to its superior reliability.


----------



## lizardking

gregerst22 said:


> But apparently some people think that an amp with an S/N of 82db, cough*p900.4, sounds as good a 98db amp or a damping factor of 100 sounds as good as 1000.



Allot of people........:laugh:


----------



## WhereAmEye?

lizardking said:


> I would take the Kia due to its superior reliability.


I would take an Aston Martin because more expensive is obviously better right?


----------



## lizardking

By the way, the PPI P900.4 tested the same in terms of Signal to Noise Ratio as the Arc Audio XDI 600.4.......if you want to use that as a basis.


----------



## lizardking

WhereAmEye? said:


> I would take an Aston Martin because more expensive is obviously better right?


No doubt....


----------



## WhereAmEye?

But in all seriousness I prefer the jl hd I have now over the alpine pdx I had simply because the jl didn't have the turn on pop that the alpine had. It was a tad more expensive but totally worth it to protect my speakers.

So yes, more expensive could potentially mean better amp. But not always of course. Just look at critical mass :/


----------



## lizardking

Makes one wonder what the deal with Alpine and the turn on pop is all about? The problem has been around for YEARS on different amp models. Totally weird.


----------



## Danometal

I have recently installed a pair of Soundstream Tarantula Nano amps in my car (TN4.900D and TN1.1200D) since I had 2 Boston amps die this year. Other than my first TN1 being defective and had to be sent back to Sonic for refund, and WoofersEtc sending the replacement (Sonic out of stock), these things are great in every way now that everything is in and tuned up.

Right now the TN4 is taking care of the active crossovers until/if I toss my Clarion CZ702 in my car to replace the current Alpine CDA-117. I dig the Alpine though, so the TN4 may keep having to cross for me.

The only downside in that context is the HPF can go up to 4k, but the low pass setting on the BPF can go to 5K. I wish they were the same so I didn't have to guess at how much I had to back off the knob to land the BPF at roughly 4K. I prefer the same cutoff so swapping polarity on the mids meshes with the tweeters good with a 12 db slope.

I guess another hair split negative would be the non defeatable SSF on the sub amp. 20 hz is as low as it goes. I don't want 20 hz cut. I built my box to dig well below 20 hz and play up to 80 hz. No biggie.

All that's pretty petty though. Great amps. Lots of power and zero noise..


----------



## Babs

Been reading up on setting crossovers on amps lately thinking the unthinkable of ditching the DSP, but that's another topic.. The NVX JAD800.4 I think if I read the side panel correctly will band-pass to run an active 2-way front stage. Trick is setting it accurately. Definitely not easy on any amp without I-scope or a tool like SMD CC-1 etc.


----------



## few35t

I haven't listened to them yet but the Pioneer 8604 and 9601 are extremely small, I laughed when I took them out of the box. Powerful and cheap too.


----------



## subterFUSE

Not class D, but getting a pair of the Sinfoni Presto amps installed in my car and seriously, those amps are very small footprint and thin. They are way smaller than the JL HD series amps. They might be one of the smallest amps I've ever seen.

Only 2 channel, of course.


I saw one of the new Audison Prima amps a few months ago. That thing wasn't much bigger than the palm of my hand, and it was 8 channels class D.


----------



## Danometal

Babs said:


> Been reading up on setting crossovers on amps lately thinking the unthinkable of ditching the DSP, but that's another topic.. The NVX JAD800.4 I think if I read the side panel correctly will band-pass to run an active 2-way front stage. Trick is setting it accurately. Definitely not easy on any amp without I-scope or a tool like SMD CC-1 etc.


Do it!!

That NXV is pretty mush the exact same amp as the Soundstream TN4 and also the PPI Phantom 900.4. Some internals might be different, but similar power and definitely the same pre amp sections. 

I ditched (into a closet of course lol) an analog active crossover once I got my amp. A lot less wiring and gain matching headache.


----------



## rxonmymind

Love me the Jl as they have been problem free for as long as I have used them over the two decades. The Alpine PDX I had under my wifie seat was excellent pushing the Focals. No complaints there.

Now I've been eyeing the Pioneers PRS-D800 out of curiosity. They look good, clean, fit just about anywhere and are fairly affordable. At $150 and some change it's not bad. Not bad at all.
[email protected]
Dimensions (WxHxD)	10" x 2" x 4-1/8"


----------



## weshole

Ive heard all but the Soundstream and PPI in different arrangements. They all sounded good. But the install with the Hertz system really caught me. Like what has been said plenty times before. You can choose most of any amps listed and be safe in knowing they will sound good providing you have the rest of the install with great product.


----------



## lup31337

Class D was used only for subwoofers in the past. Not anymore and there are no problems with them playing full range. My vote goes to JL.


----------



## Auricle

The JL XD700/5 has a much smaller footprint than the HD900/5. Is the latter significantly better than the XD700/5? There's about a $300 price different between the two as well.


----------



## jpeezy

A really simple test to differentiate the "qualities" of amps, I've actually witnessed this first hand by accident, start off with a really good recording ,(mine was a compilation disc from maple shade records), it involved a power bass 4ch of off ken wood excel on ddin 4volt preout head unit , speakers were top of the line excel on separates front and coax version rear, the powerbass just didn't "sound" right and it was shutting down when driven fairly hard (this happened on the second powerbass as well), so after checking everything, I swapped it out for an arc audio ks 4ch (4x50?) set gains and crossover points (which were more accurate also on arc) and it didn't shut down, but the most obvious difference were the dynamics and the decay, that compilation has an excellent drum improvisation with lots of cymbals, the cymbals on the power bass were there but they were "psst" as compared to the more realistic PSSssssssss of the arc audio. Drums were faster and more articulate on the arc as well.


----------



## palldat

Auricle said:


> The JL XD700/5 has a much smaller footprint than the HD900/5. Is the latter significantly better than the XD700/5? There's about a $300 price different between the two as well.


I had the Xd700/5 and switched to the HD900/5 and thought it was worth the extra money. There is much more power for the sub channel and to me the music sounded much better. Same setup just different amps. I am guessing the power supply and extra power makes the difference. 

I liked the way it sounded with the XD I just wanted more power for my sub abd ended up going this route. They did not have as many XD amp options when I switched.


----------



## chithead

Anyone tried the Zapco Class D amps yet?


----------



## groberts

Auricle said:


> The JL XD700/5 has a much smaller footprint than the HD900/5. Is the latter significantly better than the XD700/5? There's about a $300 price different between the two as well.


I am going to find out in a couple weeks when I have my amps and speakers installed in a new vehicle. Had an XD700/5 ....but going with an HD900/5 for the new system. Definitely going to be nice having the extra power/headroom for my sub.


----------



## MetricMuscle

I'm curious why the JBL MS-A1004 hasn't been mentioned.
Is it crappy or just not a small footprint?
It's pretty small but not postcard small.


----------



## so cal eddie

Has anyone tried the new DLS Reference Amps yet? I'm considering the cc-2, cc-4, and the cc1000. They are moderately priced, small footprint AB amps.


----------



## Bayboy

MetricMuscle said:


> I'm curious why the JBL MS-A1004 hasn't been mentioned.
> Is it crappy or just not a small footprint?
> It's pretty small but not postcard small.


JBL amps remain underdogs on these boards for some reason and that's despite most being underrated in power.


----------



## subwoofery

Most powerful 4 channels has to be the Zapco Studio ST-204D.BT: 
http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/ZAPCO_Cat_2015_ENG-New-Project-HIGH.pdf

640 watts x 2 @ 4 ohm is impressive 

Kelvin


----------



## papasin

subwoofery said:


> Most powerful 4 channels has to be the Zapco Studio ST-402D.BT:
> http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/ZAPCO_Cat_2015_ENG-New-Project-HIGH.pdf
> 
> 640 watts x 2 @ 4 ohm is impressive
> 
> Kelvin


Actually, the 402.D.BT is a 2-channel, and it's 320Wx2 @ 4ohm and 640x2 @ 2ohm and 1200Wx1 @ 4ohm (bridged).

Direct pdf link to just the ST-D BT series amps:
http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Zapco_STDBT_sheet.pdf

But I agree, yes, it's impressive.


----------



## Guest

Very nice, wish they had a non-Bluetooth version....


----------



## Offroader5

subwoofery said:


> Most powerful 4 channels has to be the Zapco Studio ST-402D.BT:
> http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/ZAPCO_Cat_2015_ENG-New-Project-HIGH.pdf
> 
> 640 watts x 2 @ 4 ohm is impressive
> 
> Kelvin





papasin said:


> Actually, the 402.D.BT is a 2-channel, and it's 320Wx2 @ 4ohm and 640x2 @ 2ohm and 1200Wx1 @ 4ohm (bridged).
> 
> Direct pdf link to just the ST-D BT series amps:
> http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Zapco_STDBT_sheet.pdf
> 
> But I agree, yes, it's impressive.


I've been looking at these lately, the 402 & 204 models specifically. Seems like the 402 would make a nice sub amp. If I were to make the change from my PPI's, I'd more than likely try these out.


----------



## subwoofery

papasin said:


> Actually, the 402.D.BT is a 2-channel, and it's 320Wx2 @ 4ohm and 640x2 @ 2ohm and 1200Wx1 @ 4ohm (bridged).
> 
> Direct pdf link to just the ST-D BT series amps:
> http://zapco.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Zapco_STDBT_sheet.pdf
> 
> But I agree, yes, it's impressive.


Edited my post, meant to say 204D-BT :blush:

Kelvin


----------



## Offroader5

SQ_TSX said:


> Very nice, wish they had a non-Bluetooth version....


They still work like a normal amp. The BT is just an added function IF you want to use it.


----------



## Guest

Which one is the two (2) channel amplifier ?


----------



## papasin

SQ_TSX said:


> Which one is the two (2) channel amplifier ?



402 is two channel (and can be used as mono block) and 204 is four channel.

A potent combo I could see for these is a pair of 204s and a single 402.

4x160 to tweets and mids
2x640 to midbass
1200x1 to sub

Per my understanding, since the 204 and 402 are the same dimensions, they could make for a nice back wall perhaps, with three (or more) that can be butt up to each other to make for a pretty elegant install.


----------



## groberts

How would you rate the SQ of the Studio BT series Zapco amps versus something like a JL Audio HD series?


----------



## chithead

papasin said:


> 402 is two channel (and can be used as mono block) and 204 is four channel.
> 
> A potent combo I could see for these is a pair of 204s and a single 402.
> 
> 4x160 to tweets and mids
> 2x640 to midbass
> 1200x1 to sub
> 
> Per my understanding, since the 204 and 402 are the same dimensions, they could make for a nice back wall perhaps, with three (or more) that can be butt up to each other to make for a pretty elegant install.


This is the setup I'll be trying out. Except two of the 402, one for each subwoofer


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Nice


----------



## Offroader5

Ironic....several days ago I posted a thread about these new ST Zapco amps and didn't seem to get any interest or responses...now you guys are all talkative about them


----------



## Offroader5

papasin said:


> A potent combo I could see for these is a pair of 204s and a single 402.
> 
> 4x160 to tweets and mids
> 2x640 to midbass
> 1200x1 to sub


Our brains are thinking the same  Almost.
I was only thinking a 402 on the midbass...but who knows 640w to each may be fun to try


----------



## chithead

Offroader5 said:


> Ironic....several days ago I posted a thread about these new ST Zapco amps and didn't seem to get any interest or responses...now you guys are all talkative about them


That's funny, I remember reading the thread you started but didn't see any replies about them



Offroader5 said:


> Our brains are thinking the same  Almost.
> I was only thinking a 402 on the midbass...but who knows 640w to each may be fun to try


Do it!!! Either way, both will be a potent combo.


----------



## so cal eddie

Are those zapcos available yet? With that much power, it seems like they would be quite pricey. Hmm. I should look into those.


----------



## Offroader5

chithead said:


> That's funny, I remember reading the thread you started but didn't see any replies about them
> 
> Do it!!! Either way, both will be a potent combo.


Haha...peer pressure. Don't triple dog dare me, or I might 

May have to move the 8's down into the kicks first though. Don't think they'd play well in the doors packing that much juice.


----------



## chithead

Yeah no doubt. I want to try the two channel first, then bridge the four channel and see how they do.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

These will be some game changers. The format, price per wattage. Also add bluetooth. We will have to await the release of the manual to see what controls can be manipulated via the bluetooth. This would be real sweet be able to control the amps from the front seat. No more extra long RCA's.


----------



## robtr8

Exile Audio has some nice amps that may not be on your radar as they're meant for the marine audio market.

http://exileaudio.com/store/index.php/amplifiers/amplifiers-1.html


----------



## Viggen

Been going through this dilema myself however for me I am sticking with what I can get at my local dealership thus a few of the brands in this thread I am not considering. I am leaning towards two 5 channel amp's from the following companies 

Jl @ $1200
Hertz @ not sure it's srp $800+??
Alpine @ $750

Local shop are huge JL fans however is it really worth $450 more vs the alpine? 

Hertz at 70x4 + 380x1 is a bit down in power vs the other two options
Jl drops power as ohm loads drop, 25% drop going from 4 to 2 ohms...
Alpine - I purchased a used pdx1000.1 years ago and it worked ok, but sounded muddy and boomy compared to the pg elite.2 that I replaced it with. Pg amp doesn't have the power but cleaner.... Worried the alpine will be a step back? But as stated, I had a used first gen of the PDX amp


----------



## chithead

Are you using 4-ohm, or 2-ohm subs?

The new Zapco ST-105D.BT is 90x4 at 4ohms, with 520 watts on the sub channel at 2-ohms.


----------



## Viggen

Not totally sure.... Not exactly sure which sub or subs I can put in my car thus that's undecided. Might be one or two of the stereo integrity bk mv or a pair of 6.5's or 8's

I am either doing a 2 way or 3 way active setup. 

I figure if I do a 3 way setup I would bridge two channels on each amp to power the 8in midbass with the other 3 channels on each amp going to the sub, 3in mid and tweeter.

Or.... Just do a 2 way setup and use a 6.5 and tweeter with one amp


----------



## ryankenn

Is the new ST-D with Bluetooth replacing the older D series, or supplementing it? I've been looking at the ZAPCO ST-5D for myself, but if there is a replacement for it I'd most likely go with that.


----------



## thebookfreak58

Anyone seen these?

HELIX P SIX DSP


----------



## Guest

That Helix is going to be nice


----------



## tnaudio

We just installed an Arc Audio xdi1100.5 that was very impressive.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

thebookfreak58 said:


> Anyone seen these?
> 
> HELIX P SIX DSP


Yes I have. Someone from the form turned me on to this about a week ago. It will be amazing to see just what it can do!!!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

ryankenn said:


> Is the new ST-D with Bluetooth replacing the older D series, or supplementing it? I've been looking at the ZAPCO ST-5D for myself, but if there is a replacement for it I'd most likely go with that.


When you look at the specs. There is nothing in the ST-D line will hold to the new STD.BT. Zapco has really figured something out and with the price points they are shooting at. You wont be able to stop it. I believe the ST-D line will phase out. Once they are gone, they will be gone.


----------



## Babs

thebookfreak58 said:


> Anyone seen these?
> 
> HELIX P SIX DSP


Without knowing how slick the DSP is, that looks like one kickass all-in-one. Run optical in, use the "director" or whatever the new remote is called.. Hell you only need a head unit for radio.


----------



## Guest

The DSP inside the unit will be very similar to the DSP Pro...


----------



## cajunner

SQ_TSX said:


> That Helix is going to be nice


I think you'll see a lot of people dumping the bigger AB amps for hardly nothing so they can get into something like this.

I know I'm considering it since seeing the Biketronics and miniDSP as a space-saver, this Helix is like the 2X8 miniDSP with a Leviathan...


----------



## MetricMuscle

SQ_TSX said:


> That Helix is going to be nice





Huckleberry Sound said:


> Yes I have. Someone from the form turned me on to this about a week ago. It will be amazing to see just what it can do!!!





Babs said:


> Without knowing how slick the DSP is, that looks like one kickass all-in-one. Run optical in, use the "director" or whatever the new remote is called.. Hell you only need a head unit for radio.





SQ_TSX said:


> The DSP inside the unit will be very similar to the DSP Pro...


So, how do y'all envision using this unit?
3-way active front using the amplified channels and then a sub and center on their own amplifier using the other 2?
Does the Helix DSP use a center and/or rear speakers?


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

From reading the information for this. To keep it simple either just use the processor / amp. Or use this processor to run a three way front, plus use the extra two processed RCA out to run you an amplifier or two. Outside of that, that is about as far as I would go.

IF you have to get any more advance than that, I would suggest going with the helix DSP or Helix DSP Pro and a couple of multi channel amps with a single subwoofer amplifier.

Yes there is all kinds of ways you can add some nice multi channel amplifiers to all the outs and have stuff all over the place. In that, I believe you have shot past the purpose of this unit.

See the attached details.


----------



## baruch1

Guys, Looking at Arc Audio KS Mini 125.4... is it a major step up from their xdi amps?


----------



## 58458

I like the KS mini amps but I also like the xdiv2 also. Both great amps. But the KS mini to me and a few others seem to feel they are a bit more open. And a Lil more dynamic. But linear power 2075 kills them both


----------



## Bayboy

Huckleberry Sound said:


> From reading the information for this. To keep it simple either just use the processor / amp. Or use this processor to run a three way front, plus use the extra two processed RCA out to run you an amplifier or two. Outside of that, that is about as far as I would go.
> 
> IF you have to get any more advance than that, I would suggest going with the helix DSP or Helix DSP Pro and a couple of multi channel amps with a single subwoofer amplifier.
> 
> Yes there is all kinds of ways you can add some nice multi channel amplifiers to all the outs and have stuff all over the place. In that, I believe you have shot past the purpose of this unit.
> 
> See the attached details.



Only thing I would like to see is a matching mono amp with a clear or defeatable preamp section. Would be great. Perhaps it's in the works...


----------



## kaigoss69

Arc XDi 600.4 is awesome and mine is for sale: 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/176186-arc-xdi-600-4-v2.html


----------



## jmontoya21

Viggen said:


> Been going through this dilema myself however for me I am sticking with what I can get at my local dealership thus a few of the brands in this thread I am not considering. I am leaning towards two 5 channel amp's from the following companies
> 
> Jl @ $1200
> Hertz @ not sure it's srp $800+??
> Alpine @ $750
> 
> Local shop are huge JL fans however is it really worth $450 more vs the alpine?
> 
> Hertz at 70x4 + 380x1 is a bit down in power vs the other two options
> Jl drops power as ohm loads drop, 25% drop going from 4 to 2 ohms...
> Alpine - I purchased a used pdx1000.1 years ago and it worked ok, but sounded muddy and boomy compared to the pg elite.2 that I replaced it with. Pg amp doesn't have the power but cleaner.... Worried the alpine will be a step back? But as stated, I had a used first gen of the PDX amp


i had the alpine pdx 4.150 and switched to the jl hd 600/4 and the change was slightly better not night and day. now i want to try the arc xd 1200.6 because I hear good things about it and its cheaper than the jl hd's

hope it helps


----------



## 58458

1200.6 is an absolute beast!


----------



## Hugg727

This one is very similar to the new Hellix
D2 80.6 DSP – Mosconi America


Its amazing what they can put in a 6"x4"x2" package.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Hugg727 said:


> This one is very similar to the new Hellix
> D2 80.6 DSP – Mosconi America
> 
> 
> Its amazing what they can put in a 6"x4"x2" package.


I agree. I purchased the Helix Version - PSix. Installation will come soon. Right now I have my whole system that will go through it. It is all a front stage system.

I'm a bit excited.


----------



## Hugg727

Huckleberry Sound said:


> I agree. I purchased the Helix Version - PSix. Installation will come soon. Right now I have my whole system that will go through it. It is all a front stage system.
> 
> I'm a bit excited.


Nice...what is the pricing on the Helix? The Mosconi has an MSRP of $1599, similar functionality, smaller footprint but less power.


----------



## thebookfreak58

Huckleberry Sound said:


> I agree. I purchased the Helix Version - PSix. Installation will come soon. Right now I have my whole system that will go through it. It is all a front stage system.
> 
> I'm a bit excited.


Please do a review!


----------



## Hugg727

Yes , I would be interested in a review as well...

I recently bought the Mosconi and will be doing a review of that as well. It would be good to combine our findings since they are very similar. I think the Helix has more DSP features but they are both nice units. I really like the option to add a second optical input on the Helix. Had I noticed that earlier I might have gone that way.
I have no plans to compete and I was concerned with trunk space, thus the all in one solution. 
I will be doing a 2way active in the front with the remaining 2ch for a set of Focal passive components in the rear, all off of the 80.6. I will be sending the processed sub out to an existing 300.1 JL amp for my sub. Simple setup with good quality, now if I could only find a mObridge DA1 I could finish my build.


----------



## kaigoss69

Hugg727 said:


> Simple setup with good quality, now if I could only find a mObridge DA1 I could finish my build.


Did you see that I have a DA2 for sale? - It has the digital out just like the DA1 but also has analog. It also allows you to retain factory HU EQ which the DA1 does not.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/176154-mobridge-da2-most-analog-pre-amp.html


----------



## Hugg727

kaigoss69 said:


> Did you see that I have a DA2 for sale? - It has the digital out just like the DA1 but also has analog. It also allows you to retain factory HU EQ which the DA1 does not.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/176154-mobridge-da2-most-analog-pre-amp.html


Yes i did see that. I didnt know that the early DA2 models had the digital output as well. had I known that I would have jumped all over yours. In the short time that I first saw yours for sale until you posted the pic with the digital out, I had already purchased a used DA1 from another member on the site.

GLWS


----------



## papasin

chithead said:


> Anyone tried the Zapco Class D amps yet?


Yep.


----------



## SPAZ

Wow those look sweet!


----------



## SQLnovice

papasin said:


> Yep.


Do you have any pictures of the wires/cables that are run from the fold down hatch into the car. I'm curious to see how that was done. No big deal if you don't. I was just curious.


----------



## atsaubrey

Just picked up the new Arc XDi's and I couldn't be happier....probably never go back to A/B for size, power, current consumption....and damn they sound sweet.


----------



## Audiophilefred

Pg ti2 1600.5 is amazing ,


----------



## jgarcia1925

i havent had time to peek through the whole thread, but im looking to see what you guys suggest for a sundown 10". im going with either the sd-3 or sd-2, so these are the slim ones. im looking for something that takes the least amount of room but will handle 500rms. i dont even know where to start anymore. im not looking to spend alot, since for now this is all going on the stock deck of a VW GTI. if anyone has suggestions please let me know! something good for cheap!


----------



## rton20s

atsaubrey said:


> Just picked up the new Arc XDi's and I couldn't be happier....probably never go back to A/B for size, power, current consumption....and damn they sound sweet.


I'm guessing you did not pick these up through our local Arc "dealer?"


----------



## 58458

Best small foot print amp is the linear power 2075. Class d what?


----------



## Ultimateherts

supertrav2 said:


> Best small foot print amp is the linear power 2075. Class d what?


Huh?


----------



## 58458

Linear power lp 2075? Best sounding and cleanest amp I have heard!!! And it's class ab baby!!! Yeah!!!


----------



## Ultimateherts

supertrav2 said:


> Linear power lp 2075? Best sounding and cleanest amp I have heard!!! And it's class ab baby!!! Yeah!!!


Topic clearly says *CLASS D SMALL FOOTPRINT*


----------



## Bayboy

All too common :laugh:


----------



## 58458

Oh my bad. Well then, ARC AUDIO XDI V2 FTMFW!!! HOW ABOUT THAT?


----------



## kaigoss69

Bayboy said:


> All too common :laugh:


 Dude, your avatar grosses me out. WTH is that???


----------



## Bayboy

Industrial accident involving various acidic waste some years back.


----------



## 1fishman

Bayboy said:


> Industrial accident involving various acidic waste some years back.


Lol. 

Or maybe a close up of a Blobfish. Either way it's pretty disturbing


----------



## Ultimateherts

1fishman said:


> Lol.
> 
> Or maybe a close up of a Blobfish. Either way it's pretty disturbing


And thought ole one eye was winking at me!


----------



## PPI_GUY

I don't foresee ever buying another class a/b amplifier unless it's a PPI Pro Mos 425 in black. Actually been looking for one of those. 
But, my daily driver is going to small class D very soon, when I finally decide on a low cost, basic SQ-based set of amps. Right now I'm leaning toward JL Audio XD or even possibly PPI Ion amps. I've heard both and liked them. The JL's will obviously be the better amp from a resale or reliability standpoint (I would think). But, the Ion's offer a huge dollar per watt bargain. 
I may change my mind at some point but, just can't see putting good money into large, inefficient, power-hungry class a/b amps ever again.


----------



## gstokes

Best small foot print Class D goes to the NVX MVPA1 300Wrms Mono @ 2 ohm and only 6" long.
Out of the amplifiers you selected any of them will rock your audio world but i wouldn't hesitate to include any of the amps from MB Quart or the Infinity Kappa..


----------



## Iamsmuts

gstokes said:


> Best small foot print Class D goes to the NVX MVPA1 300Wrms Mono @ 2 ohm and only 6" long.
> Out of the amplifiers you selected any of them will rock your audio world but i wouldn't hesitate to include any of the amps from MB Quart or the Infinity Kappa..


It looks like it comes with velcro to strap it down. Ha. This thing is tiny. Has anyone used these? At 1 channel, according to Sonic Electronics, it's not that useful. But still, this thing is tiny.


----------



## BlueGhost

Iamsmuts said:


> It looks like it comes with velcro to strap it down. Ha. This thing is tiny. Has anyone used these? At 1 channel, according to Sonic Electronics, it's not that useful. But still, this thing is tiny.


They make a 4 channel the same size that's rated at something 80 watt/channel. Someone on the forum bench tested them and reviewed them a while back. I believe they made rated power but could run a little hot.


----------



## rton20s

If you want to talk about small, the new (I assume) Mosconi Pico is insanely tiny. Granted, it is only 2 channels. But 80x2 @ 4 Ohms / 100x2 @ 2 Ohms / 200x1 @ 4 Ohms in a package that is only 87mm x 80mm x 30 mm (3.43" x 3.15" x 1.18") is impressive! Talk about being able to tuck your power away where you need it!


----------



## MrGreen83

I have an HD600/4 but considering switching to the Mosconi 120.4. I keep hearing that those Amps give a very noticeable difference in sound quality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hugg727

rton20s said:


> If you want to talk about small, the new (I assume) Mosconi Pico is insanely tiny. Granted, it is only 2 channels. But 80x2 @ 4 Ohms / 100x2 @ 2 Ohms / 200x1 @ 4 Ohms in a package that is only 87mm x 80mm x 30 mm (3.43" x 3.15" x 1.18") is impressive! Talk about being able to tuck your power away where you need it!


That is small....and it seems that they have the Blue Man Group as a sponsor


----------



## 1996blackmax

That is one tiny amp...opens up a lot of possibilities.


----------



## MrGreen83

I'm seeing this coming in handy for those that need a small amp for their tweeters. 100 watts to each tweeter &#55357;&#56396;&#55357;&#56396;&#55357;&#56396;


----------



## bou707

I like the new arc xdis


----------



## Babs

bou707 said:


> I like the new arc xdis


Reading more and more folks say they like them better than the JL XD's.

Edit.. To clarify.. The version 2's


----------



## tyroneshoes

wow on those mosconi minis.

a pair on tweeters and 2 of them bridged on midbass duties is a great 2 way option at that size.

Any idea of cost?

even a sub like the idqv2 or arc ported would work well wit 200 watts. Hell my boston g2 15 would be driven properly by that. 2 of them even better esp if theres a mini on each so 4 or 5 if you want 2 subs.

or for ib subs even since they need less power

nice product


----------



## crazhorse

What I have been thinking as well......... 1 for my tweeters and 2 to drive my midrange. All I can find is prices in euros 225 dollars or so


----------



## rton20s

Not sure on pricing. It might be worth contacting your local Mosconi dealer to check price and availability.


----------



## Alrojoca

Not sure if the Kenwood KAC-M3004 was added here already or not. just a bit bigger than and Iphone 6 plus , it was posted on another thread about a week ago or so. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99tiyWuuAGM


----------



## 727south

ChrisB said:


> Class D amplifiers have evolved since their introduction and now are MUCH better than the early offerings. To date, the JL Audio HD900/5 was my favorite. I'm hoping the MMATS HIFI-6150D will be my next favorite.


Hi Chris how do you like your Mmats amp? How they compare to the JL HD900?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Holy crap that Mosconi is TINY. Tweeter amp for sure!


----------



## gckless

The Mosconi _is_ tiny! I thought the Zed Mikro's were small at 8"x4"x2" (Vertex Audio: The only place for car audiophiles.), but damn! Motorcycle amp if I've ever seen one.


----------



## ChrisB

727south said:


> Hi Chris how do you like your Mmats amp? How they compare to the JL HD900?


I wouldn't know. I purchased it in November 2013 and never found the motivation to install it. If I don't get around to it by the end of the year, I'm selling it.

EDIT: As you can tell, I no longer care about car audio!


----------



## idelgado782

rton20s said:


> Not sure on pricing. It might be worth contacting your local Mosconi dealer to check price and availability.


So i'm looking for a small amp for my rear fill speakers now as i'm thinking about going active for my front. Space is getting limited so the Pico intrigued me. I have hertz high energy 165 coax in the back. I just stopped by a local Mosconi dealer by me and he said that he's actually getting one in next week for an install and that he would call me back with pricing. I can follow up with everyone once I hear back from him. I also do want to go crazy on price just for a rear fill amp.


----------



## crazhorse

Ever hear back on the pico pricing?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I find it funny how more than twice as many people think more of the phantom than they do the tarantula nano when they're really the same amp. I think the tn looks better anyway:laugh:


----------



## DDfusion

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I find it funny how more than twice as many people think more of the phantom than they do the tarantula nano when they're really the same amp. I think the tn looks better anyway:laugh:


I'm sure one of the power acoustik amps match them also.


----------



## SkizeR

The nvx is also a clone of it. Just got both in the mail

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

SkizeR said:


> The nvx is also a clone of it. Just got both in the mail
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


Look forward to that test. I'm honestly not completely sold yet on class d for anything other than subs, and even on subs I think a/b sounds better at times. I've heard some great sounding cars with the HD amps though. And even the newer PDX amps. Going from around 200rms according to the birthsheet on the first generation PDX5 I had for a while and just 75rms give or take a little from my Mosconi at 8 ohms each channel the Mosconi did a better job driving the speakers and sounded better than the PDX with triple the power. With a pair of Mosconi channels bridged to each midbass "Sally bar the door"


----------



## idelgado782

crazhorse said:


> Ever hear back on the pico pricing?


$399 for it &#55357;&#56850;&#55357;&#56850; 

I'd pick one up used but definitely not new for this price.


----------



## crazhorse

Ya the couple of places I've found online have it for 399... Ouch


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Look forward to that test. I'm honestly not completely sold yet on class d for anything other than subs, and even on subs I think a/b sounds better at times. I've heard some great sounding cars with the HD amps though. And even the newer PDX amps. Going from around 200rms according to the birthsheet on the first generation PDX5 I had for a while and just 75rms give or take a little from my Mosconi at 8 ohms each channel the Mosconi did a better job driving the speakers and sounded better than the PDX with triple the power. With a pair of Mosconi channels bridged to each midbass "Sally bar the door"



Not sold on D, and have heard some great sound from the HD-D amps....

Have you auditioned the different amps in the same car with the same components?

If not, you really can't peg the qualiuty to the amp in the link of the system.

But I too am looking forward to SkizeR's test.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Not sold on D, and have heard some great sound from the HD-D amps....
> 
> Have you auditioned the different amps in the same car with the same components?
> 
> If not, you really can't peg the qualiuty to the amp in the link of the system.
> 
> But I too am looking forward to SkizeR's test.


I say that because my limited experience with fullrange d has left me disappointed. However, a first generation pdx5 and a ppi atom weren't good amps to get my feet wet with. The people running the newer fullrange d amps seem to be happy with them so with all other things being equal I'm sure there's no audible difference. I think I remember the Leviathan being the preferred sq amp in the test someone else did last year while a/b amps that were supposed to be amongst the best for sq got described as "class d sounding" by more than one person. The Arc XDi amps look interesting. And I've heard that the Phantom and all its Epsilon clones give out good clean power.


----------



## Dynamic SQ

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Not sold on D, and have heard some great sound from the HD-D amps....
> 
> Have you auditioned the different amps in the same car with the same components?
> 
> If not, you really can't peg the qualiuty to the amp in the link of the system.
> 
> But I too am looking forward to SkizeR's test.


I have. The JL HD's are mediocre at best. There is nothing special about their sound. If any other name was on that amp, at that price, the company would have already went under.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Dynamic SQ said:


> I have. The JL HD's are mediocre at best. There is nothing special about their sound. If any other name was on that amp, at that price, the company would have already went under.


If it wasn't a great deal I would have got the PPi Phantom or the like.

What amp do you think has special soundDynamic SQ, and if you could try and discribe that difference.

thanks


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

I don't know how anyone can vote for "best sounding amp" except for the one they happen to own or like without knowing. Unless you have tried all the candidates in some test.

Maybe SkizeR will help expose some of this?


----------



## drowssap

Dynamic SQ said:


> I have. The JL HD's are mediocre at best. There is nothing special about their sound. If any other name was on that amp, at that price, the company would have already went under.


What class D amps would you suggest have better sq? I have hd's in my car because they were forced on me but would love to hear your opinion


----------



## Babs

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I say that because my limited experience with fullrange d has left me disappointed. However, a first generation pdx5 and a ppi atom weren't good amps to get my feet wet with. The people running the newer fullrange d amps seem to be happy with them so with all other things being equal I'm sure there's no audible difference. I think I remember the Leviathan being the preferred sq amp in the test someone else did last year while a/b amps that were supposed to be amongst the best for sq got described as "class d sounding" by more than one person. The Arc XDi amps look interesting. And I've heard that the Phantom and all its Epsilon clones give out good clean power.




The XDi's (latest version) appear to be top notch. Just from what I've read.



I can confirm the current PDX line is NOT the same animal as previous. My only beefs with the new PDX line is they look like if you stare at them the wrong way you'll scratch the cover, and I'm a fan of differential-balanced inputs as opposed to single-ended. However, DSP's right next to amps with super short patch leads vs long RCA runs minimize a lot of the noise worries that diff-balanced inputs address, along with getting inventive and powering all your gear from your main 12v and ground as I did.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

> I have. The JL HD's are mediocre at best. There is nothing special about their sound. If any other name was on that amp, at that price, the company would have already went under.


So I gather the JL XDi's are great and the JL HD is average.....Equal or less to the list/?:
Alpine PDX
Hertz HDP
Arc XDI
MMATS 6150D
Soundstream tarantula nano
PPi Phantom

So any of the above would be better than the JL HD, as the HD is way higher in price/$700-900

PDX has enough feedback in the negatives to just avoid them as they are priced pretty high, yet have often people reporting problems.


----------



## mmiller

Dynamic SQ said:


> I have. The JL HD's are mediocre at best. There is nothing special about their sound. If any other name was on that amp, at that price, the company would have already went under.


So how does Mark Elderidges car sound as good as it does, or Scott Buwalds old G35? Or other Cars that have won World Championships with them? Some of the best cars I've ever heard run them. So have theirs been sprinkled with fairy dust, and the Fairy dismissed yours??

I've had a lot of Amps and I'd take the HD's over almost any of them, for a lot of reasons.


----------



## mmiller

Phil Indeblanc said:


> So I gather the JL XDi's are great and the JL HD is average.....Equal or less to the list/?:
> Alpine PDX
> Hertz HDP
> Arc XDI
> MMATS 6150D
> Soundstream tarantula nano
> PPi Phantom
> 
> So any of the above would be better than the JL HD, as the HD is way higher in price/$700-900
> 
> PDX has enough feedback in the negatives to just avoid them as they are priced pretty high, yet have often people reporting problems.


XD is JL's entry class Class D. Not quite as good sounding as the HD's but still very good.. Some of them are the size of your hand. 

The only one on you list that's as good or better as the HD would be the Arc, IMO.

There's nothing wrong with the second gen PDX amps either.


----------



## Babs

Phil Indeblanc said:


> So I gather the JL XDi's are great and the JL HD is average.....Equal or less to the list/?:
> Alpine PDX
> Hertz HDP
> Arc XDI
> MMATS 6150D
> Soundstream tarantula nano
> PPi Phantom
> 
> So any of the above would be better than the JL HD, as the HD is way higher in price/$700-900
> 
> PDX has enough feedback in the negatives to just avoid them as they are priced pretty high, yet have often people reporting problems.


LOL!! Yeah I have a problem with my PDX's.. Makes me late because I've been sitting in the car so much digging all the clean power. 

And what's with the hating on HD's all up in here?! Scratching my head over that one. Someone said "mediocre" even.. Whaaaaaa?!?!?!


----------



## drowssap

Yeah I thought mine were pretty good especially in the crappy environment I am working them in. I don't really even know what they are capable of yet but I will be working on that in the next few months


----------



## DDfusion

Lol how much of the HDs power are they using?


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

I was pretty much repeating whats posted here. 

I have the HD for fronts and am really enjoying them. But I am no brand hore of any sort.

I was trying to get to the bottom of the post I quoted...about them being "mediocre at best" (keyword). 

So with that quote in consideration, the HD's are likely worse than the list. As I think the list has some average to better amps.

(Would that be deductive reasoning? Am I getting Sherlock side effects?) Lol


----------



## DDfusion

I don't like the HDs personally. I tried a direct swap from my Slash 450/4v2 to the 600/4. 

I ended up putting the 450 back in.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

The HD does play very low volumes at clear and listening levels that I don't have to turn up, and that to me is a good sign and why I kept this 600.4 HD Class D over the MTX Class A(orAB, as I have been told its not a true full A. Not the disucssion). But the power headroom alone was something I noticed. Maybe if I had another amp more equal in power I wouldn't notice much. But thats why apple to apple comparisons are key, and anything else is just a thought.

Either way I love getting my underseat rear vents to blow air to the rear again due to size. there are always some reason or another to like one over the other.


----------



## DDfusion

The SS4A I use now reminds me a lot of the 600/4. I do feel it does a bit better on the highs than the HD, could be the tune. If I had the room this time I'd go right back to the 450/4


----------



## cajunner

anyone familiar with the Kenwood Reference Fit Excelon amps, that are 1.3" tall? How do they compare with the rest of these jokers, according to Kenwood they are their best sounding class D amplifiers and I assume that means as good as anything else out there?

the pair of a 4 channel and a monoblock would squeeze behind some rear seats just fine and push a righteous 150W/4 + 600W @ 2 ohms all with great efficiency...

for less than half what JL retails their stuff, come on...


----------



## rton20s

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I find it funny how more than twice as many people think more of the phantom than they do the tarantula nano when they're really the same amp. I think the tn looks better anyway:laugh:


I like the look if the TN better as well. Except for that ugly spider. But, they say the spider sells.



DDfusion said:


> I'm sure one of the power acoustik amps match them also.


You'd be wrong, but thank you for contributing some predictability to my day.


----------



## jtaudioacc

cajunner said:


> anyone familiar with the Kenwood Reference Fit Excelon amps, that are 1.3" tall? How do they compare with the rest of these jokers, according to Kenwood they are their best sounding class D amplifiers and I assume that means as good as anything else out there?
> 
> the pair of a 4 channel and a monoblock would squeeze behind some rear seats just fine and push a righteous 150W/4 + 600W @ 2 ohms all with great efficiency...
> 
> for less than half what JL retails their stuff, come on...


i've only installed them in more basic systems. one for a sub. another for mid/high duty. both without dsp. i thought they were very good. i'd have to try them out in a more complex system with dsp to really see if they can stack up against some of the other class d amps.

i rather have a ton of power, so i'm not sure i'll be doing them anytime soon for anyone.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

cajunner said:


> anyone familiar with the Kenwood Reference Fit Excelon amps, that are 1.3" tall? How do they compare with the rest of these jokers, according to Kenwood they are their best sounding class D amplifiers and I assume that means as good as anything else out there?
> 
> the pair of a 4 channel and a monoblock would squeeze behind some rear seats just fine and push a righteous 150W/4 + 600W @ 2 ohms all with great efficiency...
> 
> for less than half what JL retails their stuff, come on...


The JL is 150x4 @4ohm.


----------



## cajunner

jtaudioacc said:


> i've only installed them in more basic systems. one for a sub. another for mid/high duty. both without dsp. i thought they were very good. i'd have to try them out in a more complex system with dsp to really see if they can stack up against some of the other class d amps.
> 
> i rather have a ton of power, so i'm not sure i'll be doing them anytime soon for anyone.


I can dig it. Very good is a ringing endorsement in this day and age of internet skepticism. They would allow me stealth behind a Chevy GMT400 extra cab rear seat, which is what I need now. 



Phil Indeblanc said:


> The JL is 150x4 @4ohm.


my bad, the Kenwood 400-4 is only 75W @ 4 ohms, with ! 1% ! thd.

still, it's enough power since it's 1.375" deep and about as thin as I'll find in a modern amp this side of Helix/Brax and their deep pocket asking prices.

so, 2 way front and sub, I'll get a 75X2, plus 200 watt bridged rear for a small sub.

hmm...

thanks for the replies guys.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

I have heard all great things from at least 3 members here about the Kenwood Exelon line, particularly the older models with onboard EQ


----------



## lizardking

People should listen to those that truly know SQ on this forum. Stop worrying about what amps you run and learn how to properly install/tune your system.


----------



## Golden Ear

lizardking said:


> People should listen to those that truly know SQ on this forum. Stop worrying about what amps you run and learn how to properly install/tune your system.


Nailed it!


----------



## DDfusion

That don't work since everyone is a expert on the Internet. 

And those experts think since they've never done it it can't be done.


----------



## lizardking

DDfusion said:


> That don't work since everyone is a expert on the Internet.
> 
> And those experts think since they've never done it it can't be done.



The only value these guys offer that change equipment like underwear trying to achieve the "holy grail" is offering up their used stuff at drastically reduced prices for the rest. :laugh:


----------



## DDfusion

I never buy used so what do I get out of it? 

Oh ya, opinionated forum boner advice. 
Or just ignoring since it's not what they would do.


----------



## gstokes

naughtyca said:


> The great thing on the ppi and the soundstream tn are the availability of doing bandpass crossover which a lot of amps cannot do


That's one of the things i love about my MB Quart, band pass crossover made going active a breeze but in any event a discrete crossover like the Clarion MCD360 is usually a better option than the limited crossover on the amplifier/s..


----------



## gstokes

Dynamic SQ said:


> You seem to think technical scores in car audio competition equals sound quality. You have a lot to learn.


Well they don't get points for sounding bad, that's for sure


----------



## lizardking

DDfusion said:


> I never buy used so what do I get out of it?
> 
> Oh ya, opinionated forum boner advice.
> Or just ignoring since it's not what they would do.


I learned years ago to avoid advice from anyone that talks about how their amps changed the sound after a swap. You know the guys that refer in terms like "airy, warm, stale, bloated, effortless, clinical, technical, boomy, harsh, transparent.....etc"


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

From my limited experience, (although living in audio for about most of my life was a pretty wide exposure)....

When I purchased all those home hi-fi amplifiers and the differences were revealed to me, I realized I was splitting hairs and only doing things for technicallity and not listening pleasure. Yes the different amps had some differing charactoristics between them, but they all had plenty power, and they drove the speakers with ease. Any sound difference was a slight tweak of the EQ adjust. Bu I did select one over the other off the bat sound character. But this is nothing you cant adjust. In my observation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYzMFK9aXd4


----------



## mmiller

Dynamic SQ said:


> You seem to think technical scores in car audio competition equals sound quality. You have a lot to learn.


Ok, well enlighten me then... Scott Buwalda, Mark Elderidge, or anyone else that competes doesn't know what "Sound Quality" is.... Enlighten us.. People like you are the reason nobody comes on this forum anymore.


----------



## HK53sbr

I think we get it............_*your*_ absolute displeasure with HD's is blatantly obvious.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

maybe he is a MFG of components that was the major share of his market? I actually was on the A/AB side just by paper. 

After having a 1st experience with a positive observance on my part /HD600.4, I thought to myself, what was I thinking, this sounds rather great! 

I was just listening to female vocals earlier and I tried to dissect the transition across the notes she was singing, and with my tune and this amp, I guess my ignorance is bliss.

I've been brought up with a recording studio in the house. 
Using Teac reel to reel to tascam mixer from CD to expand sound quality over a faster recording speed/decompression, with recording sessions, and have enjoyed $1000 speakers to $10K speakers with Adcom, Rotel, Sony, McIntosh, Marantz, Carver, Yamaha, Nakamichi, and a couple others. I have had live performances recorded with really nice mics and over the years seen a wide range. It is from exposure and expereince, and knowing what to listen for with nothing scientific. So with the science there is so much placebo effect to unmask, SO MUCH, as your brain WILL compensate and CHANGE what you hear with a given situation. So I tend to lean on the science, but try and keep the ears sharp.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

So it's either polar opposites or it's wrong? Anything in between these EXTREMES is obsolete, is what you!re saying.


----------



## gregerst22

A lot of the guys who compete have sponsor(s) or are part of team that uses certain brands. So they're going to use and perhaps tout that gear as being the best. Or at the very least defend it.


----------



## I800C0LLECT

Dynamic SQ said:


> These comments always make me laugh. Why don't all these people who you think "truly know SQ on this forum" use the cheapest amps on the market? All amps sound the same, right? Because tuning and install is all that matters, right? Isn't that what you just insinuated?
> 
> You would think a rational person "who truly knows SQ" would put that extra couple grand saved, from buying the cheapest amps on the market, into a Roth and have an extra $30k + for retirement down the road.


Hrmm. Just because somebody disagrees doesn't mean they can win contests with Lepai amps off eBay. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are polar opposite of your position either.

Maybe you spend that much for sound and they spend a little less for reliability, customer support, or looks?

I think amps sound different. I also believe it's reasonable to expect they can sound very similar after tuning... So similar that differences are marginal.

However... If you just cold turkey swap and play of course there's a huge difference.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Dynamic SQ said:


> Here is what I'm saying to YOU. You have owned about 2 amps in the past 20 years (gathered from your own posts), and have limited install/tuning skills. *Therefore, anything you want to argue about is based on the clique you want to join on this forum, and not from your own experience. Go find another argument. Maybe one that has valid experience and knowledge behind it.*


*

@Dynamic SQ

Alpine
HiFonics Zeus, orginal and vi - great
HiFonics Thor - great
Hifonics Brutus - great
Orion 2ch - great
ADS
SoundStream 2ch and 4ch, 300i, 600i?. I also had the head unit. both unreliable, but great in some ways.
Clarion, bla
Alphasonic, bla
Blaupunkt, ok
MTX 4ch, ok

I think that is all of them.
All pre 2000

My rating of them is more on the reliability, and that they just had loads of thick power to push clean and solid hard. 

HiFonics were top with Orion.

I still have most of this gear above!!!

Now I have:
JL - so far so good
JBL (didn't listen to much as it runs the rears)

We didn't have DSP's like now, we had stupid sized EQ tabs to tuen manually. But no, I had no past tuning with mic and RTA.


So you might want to go back re eval your thoughts*


----------



## gstokes

Dynamic SQ said:


> It's a well known fact that technical scores don't equal sound quality. It's a well known fact that cars that have done very well in competition aren't always very pleasing to listen too.


Okay, i read the first part your sentence completely and agree with you, the second part ...

If a car is judged for SQ and does well in scoring i would think it would be very easy on the ears


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

And those above are ones I've owned. 

Also had experience with PPi, Linear Power, Phoenix Gold, Kenwood, RFosgate.


----------



## ChrisB

Phil Indeblanc said:


> And those above are ones I've owned.
> 
> Also had experience with PPi, Linear Power, Phoenix Gold, Kenwood, RFosgate.



If, and this is a big IF, I were to go back to old school amps, I'd only consider Phoenix Gold or Zapco. Why? Because out of all the amplifiers I went through when I was being nostalgic, they were the least problematic relics from yesteryear that sounded awesome!


----------



## UMWDawg92

I don't know if these have been mentioned as I didn't read the entire thread but I have recently gotten an American bass VFL150.4 its a hybrid amp, puts out [email protected], active bandpass crossovers and dimensions are 11.5x6x2. Its is pretty small they also make several monos in the hybrid series.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Dynamic SQ said:


> How about I answer you with a question?


That right there is avoiding and a problem in itself. A great way to mix apples and oranges. 

Boy do you like your mix of fruits.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

I wonder how Taramps fairs in all this. I asked about them when I first got back on here. Most people gave me alternates, only 1 or 2 knew about them. 

They are popular in Brazil, and since they didn't have set distribution here, they were cheap at $180 for a 4ch, now they do have some filter/distributer, and the price from 180 went to 400, and now just under 600!

Because of the market create by some folks that are delusional.

I don't know if its a good amp or not. It was something I read, and did more reading, and for the most part was all positive. But many people discouraged it. Maybe rightfully so.

I wish someone here with no bias would try one out.

I mention this as it was considered the "Crap" amp at one point!


----------



## Darth SQ

Phil Indeblanc said:


> So I gather the JL XDi's are great and the JL HD is average.....Equal or less to the list/?:
> Alpine PDX
> Hertz HDP
> Arc XDI
> MMATS 6150D
> Soundstream tarantula nano
> PPi Phantom
> 
> So any of the above would be better than the JL HD, as the HD is way higher in price/$700-900
> 
> PDX has enough feedback in the negatives to just avoid them as they are priced pretty high, yet have often people reporting problems.


I bought three of the Soundstream PIcasso Nanos for my Fit. 
I'll know how they sound by the end of September.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Darth SQ

SkizeR said:


> i dont see where he said that his vehicle sounds great.. i think you need a break from the internet before your blood pressure rises to lethal levels :laugh:


I'm seriously thinking of giving him that break.
He can't make a point without turning it into a personal attack.
I've spent the last hour cleaning up after him.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Souldrop

I'm not sure if I commented on this thread or not. I enjoy my PDX.  Sadly that's the only full range class D I've used...Recently made the conversion from an class AB follower...


----------



## Dynamic SQ

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I'm seriously thinking of giving him that break.
> He can't make a point without turning it into a personal attack.
> I've spent the last hour cleaning up after him.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Real professional admin here. Talks about members of the forum with other members in open discussion. 

I can smell bias a mile a way.


----------



## Dynamic SQ

SkizeR said:


> and your last sentence makes it seem like you think the amps are what caused this person who did better to win? *jeez you are ****ed*. oh btw, he did win last year. from what im seeing he won everything he entered it at finals last year


No personal attack here admin, huh?

Is this a kiss ass and stay around type forum, or a forum where one can state their own opinion without being **** on by the admin and the clique they protect?


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Dynamic SQ said:


> Do you like the taste of ass or just like having your face shoved in them? You follow others around with your non-existent knowledge and kiss ass.
> 
> I'll tell you what. In about 20 years, you probably still won't have the experience I have with car audio products. Therefore, your instigation hype man skills don't exist in my world.


I thought you'd be gone looking for a new screen name. 


So lets get this straight , again...
You say...
1. I follow others? 
2. I have no knowledge?
3. I kiss ass?
4. I instigate hype?

...
1. I don't know anyone on here. But let me try and inject some logic in your switchboard...Maybe when people who don't know one another and have the like experiences, it can be looked at as commonalities. 

2. If you think another person that has lived as long as you, or even half as you has no knowledge, you simple prove your narrow mindedness. You are like a thing of energy with polars and nothing in between. You don't value anyones input, you look down to anything besides your self. Much like a parasite. Either that or you spent the last 20+ years behind bars and no one gave you a library card.

3. If its my wife, I can be caught doing that, true. Otherwise, all your response are much like this. meaningless.

4. I'm trying to interpret your lack of substance.


Since when did forum topics take a "I did this and that segway"? This is not a selfhelp forum.

Try to focus.


----------



## Souldrop

Dynamic SQ said:


> Real professional admin here. Talks about members of the forum with other members in open discussion.
> 
> I can smell *class A *bias a mile a way.


Fixed to be somewhat car audio related...


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

If it quacks like a duck...there's a good chance...its a....


----------



## Darth SQ

Dynamic SQ said:


> Real professional admin here. Talks about members of the forum with other members in open discussion.
> 
> I can smell bias a mile a way.





Dynamic SQ said:


> No personal attack here admin, huh?
> 
> Is this a kiss ass and stay around type forum, or a forum where one can state their own opinion without being **** on by the admin and the clique they protect?


Replied to.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## ChrisB

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I bought three of the Soundstream PIcasso Nanos for my Fit.
> I'll know how they sound by the end of September.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


You mean to tell me it is hot as hell where you are too? A few weeks ago I pulled my rear seat bottom to run wires. I sweated so much pulling the seat, I figured the wires can wait until the end of September or some time in October before I fool with it again.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Dynamic SQ said:


> Real professional admin here. Talks about members of the forum with other members in open discussion.
> 
> I can smell bias a mile a way.


Its a tactic to discuss about someones behavior as a side comment knowing that person can hear(in this case read) to get them to realize what a twat one is being. 

Its just not very admin like to tell one off personally or directly at them. This would not be the same as giving a hint. It would be telling you to f*
all off.
Then you'd really want a new screen name.


----------



## omnibus

I haven't hear too many full range class D amps that are small but I like JL's XD 500/3. On the dyno it pushes over 600 watts @ 1 ohm for the 3rd channel, too bad it's not rated for that.
Despite it's small size, it's still hard to find a good spot for mounting it with todays compact cars so think I'm gonna try a smaller one next time.



Dynamic SQ said:


> No personal attack here admin, huh?
> 
> Is this a kiss ass and stay around type forum, or a forum where one can state their own opinion without being **** on by the admin and the clique they protect?


just wear this


----------



## gstokes

Dynamic SQ said:


> Real professional admin here. Talks about members of the forum with other members in open discussion.
> 
> I can smell bias a mile a way.


It's not biased and Brett is good people, we don't look to him as a moderator but as a friend, we're all friends here at DIYMA and you just need to take a chill pill bro..

We like you here at DIYMA and appreciate your wealth of knowledge but just tone it down a "lot" and don't take everything so personally 

Relax and smoke some ganja with me, Puff Puff Pass..


----------



## I800C0LLECT

gstokes said:


> It's not biased and Brett is good people, we don't look to him as a moderator but as a friend, we're all friends here at DIYMA and you just need to take a chill pill bro..
> 
> We like you here at DIYMA and appreciate your wealth of knowledge
> but just tone it down a "lot" and don't take everything so personally
> 
> Relax and smoke some ganja with me, Puff Puff Pass..




Love that photo. Great advice here! We still love ya dsq


----------



## gstokes

I800C0LLECT said:


> Love that photo..


Thank-you, soon to be 56 yrs old and still a hippy..


----------



## gstokes

I came from caraudio.com and was a little wound up when i got here but you were patient with me and eventually i chilled, i think everyone is same way and just takes a little time to adjust to more of a "family" atmosphere..


----------



## I800C0LLECT

gstokes said:


> I came from caraudio.com and was a little wound up when i got here but you were patient with me and eventually i chilled, i think everyone is same way and just takes a little time to adjust to more of a "family" atmosphere..



I was reading these forums for 3 years before I ever became a member. Then and now I'm still very intimidated by the experience and knowledge base presented by most members.

It's a tough crowd! Anyways, there's definitely been some very big changes in the membership base since 2006  I think it's more forgiving these days


----------



## gstokes

I800C0LLECT said:


> I was reading these forums for 3 years before I ever became a member. Then and now I'm still very intimidated by the experience and knowledge base presented by most members.
> 
> It's a tough crowd! Anyways, there's definitely been some very big changes in the membership base since 2006  I think it's more forgiving these days


Some of these guys like Patrick Bateman, mini SQ, Skizer, hillbilly SQ, cajunner, etc etc.. Many others..

Pure genius and you just want to tap into their brain stem


----------



## SkizeR

gstokes said:


> Some of these guys like Patrick Bateman, mini SQ, Skizer, hillbilly SQ, cajunner, etc etc.. Many others..
> 
> Pure genius and you just want to tap into their brain stem


cross me off that list lol. 

but yeah i think patrick takes the cake. but to be honest, i cant tell if hes really ****ing smart, or bat **** crazy. probably both lol


----------



## shillermanlite

gstokes said:


> Thank-you, soon to be 56 yrs old and still a hippy..


I'm liking that AR and the mobile a/c unit in the back haha. Nice pic


----------



## 1996blackmax

SkizeR said:


> but yeah i think patrick takes the cake. but to be honest, i cant tell if hes really ****ing smart, or bat **** crazy. probably both lol


I think you hit the nail on the head!


----------



## ChrisB

omnibus said:


> I haven't hear too many full range class D amps that are small but I like JL's XD 500/3. On the dyno it pushes over 600 watts @ 1 ohm for the 3rd channel, too bad it's not rated for that.
> Despite it's small size, it's still hard to find a good spot for mounting it with todays compact cars so think I'm gonna try a smaller one next time.


I know I've said it before and I'll say it again, car audio is a compromise, so pick your poison. My last two cars were compact cars, so there was no room for huge ass amplifiers. While I did have some smaller, Louisiana manufactured, amplifiers, they were too tall to fit into the equation of my current vehicle with the mounting location I had in mind. 

OTOH, full-range, class d amplifiers, do not have the same mounting compromise. I don't compete and I don't strive for sonic perfection in the automobile any longer, so most modern full-range class d amplifiers fit the bill, cheap or expensive! 

If you had asked me what I thought about full-range class D prior to the JL Audio HD series, I would have been beating my 30 year old technology class AB drum. Why? Because it was all I knew and experienced in the car at once upon a time. Technology has changed just as my needs have changed when it comes to power in a given footprint. 

Of course, there will always be those who criticize my choice for running what fits best in MY install. The funny thing is they can never offer acceptable alternatives when it comes to the power I want in a given footprint. As a result, I just let them blow smoke, and sometimes I will mess with them for my own entertainment purposes, time permitting. :laugh:


----------



## gstokes

shillermanlite said:


> I'm liking that AR and the mobile a/c unit in the back haha. Nice pic


That's a Mossberg MMR, 5.56mm with collapsible stock and 30rd magazine, perfect addition to my 1911A2, it's like they were made for each other 

Have since added a Mossberg 590 Tactical to my collection, Magpul stock, 9 round magazine with 3" chamber..

Okay, back on topic, what exactly were we talking about ?


----------



## gstokes

SkizeR said:


> cross me off that list lol.
> 
> but yeah i think patrick takes the cake. but to be honest, i cant tell if hes really ****ing smart, or bat **** crazy. probably both lol


Don't count yourself short Skizer but since you quoted me, i can't take you off that list


----------



## 1996blackmax

ChrisB said:


> I know I've said it before and I'll say it again, car audio is a compromise, so pick your poison. My last two cars were compact cars, so there was no room for huge ass amplifiers. While I did have some smaller, Louisiana manufactured, amplifiers, they were too tall to fit into the equation of my current vehicle with the mounting location I had in mind.
> 
> OTOH, full-range, class d amplifiers, do not have the same mounting compromise. I don't compete and I don't strive for sonic perfection in the automobile any longer, so most modern full-range class d amplifiers fit the bill, cheap or expensive!
> 
> If you had asked me what I thought about full-range class D prior to the JL Audio HD series, I would have been beating my 30 year old technology class AB drum. Why? Because it was all I knew and experienced in the car at once upon a time. Technology has changed just as my needs have changed when it comes to power in a given footprint.
> 
> Of course, there will always be those who criticize my choice for running what fits best in MY install. The funny thing is they can never offer acceptable alternatives when it comes to the power I want in a given footprint. As a result, I just let them blow smoke, and sometimes I will mess with them for my own entertainment purposes, time permitting. :laugh:





I'm with you on this Chris....years back I never even considered fullrange class d amps. Then I said what the heck. I wanted a certain amount of power that required a smaller footprint, and class d offered this. I was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

That is a cool pic. rifle on couch and surf board in back....

When I was out in north bend last year, the waters were calm and I don't surf, but boy are the beaches there beautiful! sunsets galore!


----------



## chucko58

gstokes said:


> Okay, back on topic, what exactly were we talking about ?


Don't toke & text. :smoking:


----------



## gstokes

Phil Indeblanc said:


> That is a cool pic. rifle on couch and surf board in back....


that's actually a 12 ft SOT Kayak...


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

ok, I need to get into some more water sports


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Oregon


----------



## SQram

Not sure if this was discussed previously, but I'm quite suprised BASH amplifiers never really took off. It seems to make a lot of sense to use PWM to adjust the power supply rails rather than fire the output stage like a conventional class D amplifier. That way the filters are not needed on the output to remove the carrier frequency...

It looks like Indigo (BASH) was bought out by Chinese company, maybe we'll see some new BASH amplifiers come to market?


----------



## I800C0LLECT

SQram said:


> Not sure if this was discussed previously, but I'm quite suprised BASH amplifiers never really took off. It seems to make a lot of sense to use PWM to adjust the power supply rails rather than fire the output stage like a conventional class D amplifier. That way the filters are not needed on the output to remove the carrier frequency...
> 
> It looks like Indigo (BASH) was bought out by Chinese company, maybe we'll see some new BASH amplifiers come to market?



I thought we were talking about sexting and driving?


----------



## SQram

LOL...I haven't been following the thread, just read the title...

Forget I said anything...


----------



## gstokes

Phil Indeblanc said:


> ok, I need to get into some more water sports


I sold it after catching an infection from the Willamette River that was eating the skin off my legs, there used to be a Chemical/Insecticide Plant on the River and after the plant closed down a lot of garbage settled to the bottom of the river, i was unlucky enough to have an open cut that got infected and from there it was a race to the VA hospital to get me on antibiotics..

Shooting Sports yes, Water Sports not so much anymore


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

gstokes said:


> ..... there used to be a Chemical/Insecticide Plant on the River and after the plant closed down a lot of garbage settled to the bottom of the river.....


Oh wow!!! that just disgusts me. When you have companies killing and infecting the things people expect to enjoy. WOW!

Keep them fracking permits comin'!!!!


----------



## vwjmkv

how do the Micro NVX amps fit in with these?


----------



## Babs

vwjmkv said:


> how do the Micro NVX amps fit in with these?


The JAD's are better, but these are tiny.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

I might have asked this here, but perhaps not.....

Any preference between the 
Slash 4ch JL amp vs the HD600.4?
I heard one response disliking the "sound" of the HD amp. Wondering how the Slash is received, or described.


----------



## ChrisB

Phil Indeblanc said:


> I might have asked this here, but perhaps not.....
> 
> Any preference between the
> Slash 4ch JL amp vs the HD600.4?
> I heard one response disliking the "sound" of the HD amp. Wondering how the Slash is received, or described.


I wouldn't consider the Slash series to be a "small foot print" amplifier.

This member who disliked the sound wouldn't happen to be a certain banned member on this forum who is known for having a business on eBay where he sells overpriced old-school gear, would it?


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

lol...true, not a small one. I forgot who it was. I'll skim through this thread when I get a chance.


----------



## 1996blackmax

ChrisB said:


> I wouldn't consider the Slash series to be a "small foot print" amplifier.
> 
> This member who disliked the sound wouldn't happen to be a certain banned member on this forum who is known for having a business on eBay where he sells overpriced old-school gear, would it?


Certainly made for intertaining reading.


----------



## I800C0LLECT

So far I'm impressed with the jbl ms amps I have. They don't get too warm while playing the system loud either. The setup is pretty transparent overall. I can't imagine wanting anything different unless I'm going for looks.

These amps are really impressive and the ms-a5001 has a lot of power. Hefty little guys too. Just wish they weren't so thick.

I think a version of these without the bamf dsp would be a hit. But for long term ownership these things are feature rich for almost any install. I wish they looked as good as they perform.


----------



## Babs

I800C0LLECT said:


> So far I'm impressed with the jbl ms amps I have. They don't get too warm while playing the system loud either. The setup is pretty transparent overall. I can't imagine wanting anything different unless I'm going for looks.
> 
> These amps are really impressive and the ms-a5001 has a lot of power. Hefty little guys too. Just wish they weren't so thick.
> 
> I think a version of these without the bamf dsp would be a hit. But for long term ownership these things are feature rich for almost any install. I wish they looked as good as they perform.


Yeah it's kind of a shame JBL has pretty much done a big exit from the car audio scene at that level. I'd thought more than once a no-DSP version of those amps would have been a hit.. And tiny!

Isn't it interesting now how we rather embrace straight-wire-with-gain no-frills SQ amps now.. Wasn't so long ago it was all about how much crossover band-pass fanciness you could cram into an amp. Folks now have realized what all that crap does to the fidelity, and with DSP's now, who uses any of it.


----------



## fhlh002

Speaking of "no-frills" anyone out there tried the PRS-D800? I'm thinking about getting two to run the front stage in my pickup.


----------



## Iamsmuts

fhlh002 said:


> Speaking of "no-frills" anyone out there tried the PRS-D800? I'm thinking about getting two to run the front stage in my pickup.


I have one on tweeter duty right now. It can do much more. I used it for the front when I was running passive. No problems. I can't hear any noise. And it runs cool. Nice small amp.


----------



## Iamsmuts

fhlh002 said:


> Speaking of "no-frills" anyone out there tried the PRS-D800? I'm thinking about getting two to run the front stage in my pickup.


You can get it for $169 on Amazon right now from some 3rd party sellers.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

vwjmkv said:


> how do the Micro NVX amps fit in with these?


I bought the PPI version of this amp as a curiosity and was VERY disappointed. I kinda set it up to fail though by comparing it bridged against my bridged Mosconi 120.4 I had running my pair of Scan 5f's running 900 and up at the time. I guess if you have tin ears/don't know any better/can't fit anything worth having it would be an ok choice. You have to use it for the right reason. The micro amp sounded really grainy. 

As for small footprint amps, I know a lot of people are running them and even winning sq comps with them but mentally my heart is still with a good a/b amp even for sub duty. Twice I've been able to tell an audible difference between a bridged pair of channels from a Mosconi 120.4 and a class d sub amp. This was compared to a Soundstream dtr1700d and most recently a JBL 1001ez. The JBL was quite nice while the SS was a turd. Still, the Mosconi seemed more musical (not just a tone generator), and sounds like it has more control of the sub. I still wonder if I'd be able to tell a difference in the higher end fullrange d between my pair of 120.4's and a pair of the new Alpines, JL HD, or Arc xdi of equal power. As small as my current a/b amps are for what they put out I just don't see a swap being worth it unless one of them buys the farm.


----------



## rton20s

Hillbilly SQ. I don't think the PPI amp you tested is the same thing as the NVX micro amps. I don't know of any other manufacturers creating clones of the NVX amps. Do you have any gut pics of the two for comparison?


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Yes, that would be great to clarify.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

rton20s said:


> Hillbilly SQ. I don't think the PPI amp you tested is the same thing as the NVX micro amps. I don't know of any other manufacturers creating clones of the NVX amps. Do you have any gut pics of the two for comparison?


I don't have any gut pics but word on the street is they're the same just like the jad amps are basically Phantom/Turantula Nano amps. I'm sure of someone were to do some digging they could find some gut pics of both amps.


----------



## ChrisB

Hillbilly SQ said:


> As for small footprint amps, I know a lot of people are running them and even winning sq comps with them but mentally my heart is still with a good a/b amp even for sub duty.



Get that class a/b nonsense out of this class d thread.


----------



## cajunner

so as far as Victor sees it, the hypex modules are the top grade now.

we've seen a progression of brand names on the circuits in class D, which I think is favorable to a generic approach with the designer that invested all that time making the circuits, hardly even noted in the review materials.


Tri-path:

good sound, many copies from China now, the original hardware builder went under?


IcePower:

Pioneer's first foray into the class D, I think? Bang and Olufsen's product, expensive compared to the Tri-path but also not always a clean performer, from anecdotal reports about impedance changes making big swoops into the low frequency performance...

Hypex:


Not a lot to find yet in car audio but Biketronics is the beefcake, they seem to have even greater efficiency and possibly less noise than previous circuits, the hardware hasn't been perverted by Chinese reverse engineering yet, AFAICT, (which, I am no expert on any of this) so when you buy a module, you get the real good stuff, nothing watered down by cheap Chinese substitution artists.

And of course, you have JL's fine class D architecture, which doesn't enjoy it's own moniker? then the Sure Electronics stuff, which might be a giant killer if it could come already packaged in giant killer wrappings...

and if 450K was high for JL's full range goodies, I hear they are using 650K bits now?

Is that going to be able to run High-Res, and do we have the dogs to prove it?

Now that would be a real deal, amp test huh? Dog sits, amp starts, DOG BARKS!


we have a winner, folks.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ChrisB said:


> Get that class a/b nonsense out of this class d thread.


I can't help the fact that I'm still stuck in the past:laugh:


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

You're running a steam engine train


----------



## 1996blackmax

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I can't help the fact that I'm still stuck in the past:laugh:


I was like that too . For the longest time I would not even consider a class D amp.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

1996blackmax said:


> I was like that too . For the longest time I would not even consider a class D amp.



I too just made the switch a month or so ago. Never a D before.

I'm also moving from one camera system to a newer digital camera system. Tech and time changes a number of things for the better. In sound I think this is less so. SOme great speakers and receivers/amps from the past are still my preferred choice.

I will still run my Marantz amps and receiver without a care for lack of HDMI, I rather do the work around. I still run my old speakers. These things I see changing less as the space needs power demands and costs are not driving anything away..In a car its a bit different. Efficiency in a number of ways plays a strong roll.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I think the Arc ks 6ch and 4ch would be perfect replacements for what I have now, but those are g/h I believe, not d


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

is G or H any better, any different, any comparables?


----------



## 1996blackmax

From recollection, the gist of it was that it was supposed to be sonically better. That's what I remember when I was looking at that years back.

BTW....Just came back from window browsing. May pick up a class a/b now....damn.


----------



## ChrisB

Phil Indeblanc said:


> is G or H any better, any different, any comparables?


I had a Clarion DPX1851 that I picked up for $140 or so when Crutchfield was blowing them out. It did really well on the 13w6v2 Stealthbox that was in my 2006 Mustang GT. My only complaint about it was size. When I finally switched to a JL Audio HD900/5 in the same car, I was sold on full-range class D. 

The main selling point on the class GH amplifiers was that they were supposed to have the sound of class ab, but ran more efficiently due to the switching power supply. Naturally, I'm cheap sometimes, so I try many things based on price alone. :laugh:


----------



## subwoofery

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I think the Arc ks 6ch and 4ch would be perfect replacements for what I have now, but those are g/h I believe, not d


KS900.6 is class A/B 

Kelvin


----------



## rton20s

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I think the Arc ks 6ch and 4ch would be perfect replacements for what I have now, but those are g/h I believe, not d





subwoofery said:


> KS900.6 is class A/B


What he said. 

And there may be an Arc KS900.6 and KS600.2 back up for sale in the classifieds by the end of the year.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

rton20s said:


> What he said.
> 
> And there may be an Arc KS900.6 and KS600.2 back up for sale in the classifieds by the end of the year.


Let me know when you do. I might be interested in one, or both of them depending on funds. My midbass is laughing at the 120rms each is getting right now and I need to show them who's boss. I could put my 1001ez back in but pulled it out because 3 amps take up too much room.


----------



## Seraphim38

cajunner, relating to your post of modular Class D designs and solutions, I have evaluated the list of players you mentioned as part of a major sourcing endeavor for my employer (professional audio brands). 

If you have questions or want to discuss further, I can take it off line. I spend 3 months a year in China working directly with the factories, and have fairly intimate knowledge of the options you mentioned.


----------



## sqshoestring

Has anyone tried the new-ish little kenwood marine class D amps? Note the cheapest one you can't bridge but the other one you can. I was thinking the 4ch would be a nice midbass amp at 2x150rms. They are small and about $100. This should be the model of the bridgeable one: Kenwood KACM3004. Its 6.7 x 5.9 x 3.2 inches ; 2.2 pounds.

I love my infinity kappa4 full range class D, it sounds clean to me though its not a quiet car anyway and its just a daily driver. 125rms/ch beats out the 4x75 amps I ran before easily. Its small but not tiny. I don't know about clipping because it seems to have enough power that I don't push it too hard.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

I know I might be wrong, but I always thought when a Marine amp is marketed as such a little less care for sound quality is in the recipe of things. I say this as this being on a boat exposed to the outside and not really a "listening environment", they put the money into non corrosive items and such vs sound quality. I am sure there are exceptions or a total misconception by me and they are all the same and just a marketing and color change. But who knows?! The guys that crack these open and bench them I guess.


----------



## 1996blackmax

I had though about getting marine amps in the car, just for extra protection. I used to go to the beach a lot and always had a cooler, wet boogie boards & wet toys in the trunk on the way home.


----------



## Phil Indeblanc

Theats a good point and good use of the marine stuff. Are the circuits inside plastic sealed or something, or all the components gelled in some acrylic material or?


----------



## sqshoestring

Kenwood looks normal, holes for the pots/etc. I think its just the use of noncorrosive materials inside to take the moisture. Some electronics dissolve with a drop of water. If I ever get time to install MB I think I'll get one. The quality should be fine but if not with MB it should not matter much. Amp quality is so easy it would only suck if they wanted it to.

The clouds moved so I could see the supermoon eclipse tonight, pretty sweet.


----------



## trumpet

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Theats a good point and good use of the marine stuff. Are the circuits inside plastic sealed or something, or all the components gelled in some acrylic material or?


It's a treatment called conformal coating. In this industry I've been informed it's sprayed on, brushed on, or the board can be dipped. Brushing is the most expensive method and it provides the best coverage, including getting under ICs where a spray or even a dip approach can miss.


----------



## rton20s

I got to see one of the Mosconi Picos in person at CA MECA State Finals this weekend. You really have to see these things in person to believe just how small they are. According to testing, they exceed rated power slightly (moreso at two ohms or bridged) and have really clean signal. They certainly aren't the cheapest thing out there, but when you absolutely need the tiniest amp possible to tuck away somewhere, they are going to be tough to beat.


----------



## robtr8

Waiting on the new Pio GM-D9605 for the rug rats 328xi build. Going to do a GM-D8604 for mids and tweets and the 9605 bridged for the mid-bass and sub.


----------



## bbfoto

robtr8 said:


> Waiting on the new Pio GM-D9605 for the rug rats 328xi build. Going to do a GM-D8604 for mids and tweets and the 9605 bridged for the mid-bass and sub.


So are there new versions of these that don't have the hiss/noise floor and turn on/off thump problems? Or are you waiting on warranty repaired/replacement amps?


----------



## robtr8

bbfoto said:


> So are there new versions of these that don't have the hiss/noise floor and turn on/off thump problems? Or are you waiting on warranty repaired/replacement amps?


I've installed two of the 8604's and one of the 9605's in boats without any noise at all. I just installed the 8604 and 9605 in the bmw and have a tiny tiny bit of ignition noise. No thumps at all. Going to remove the t-spec rca's and use the soundrive I just received.


----------



## Golden Ear

I installed a 9605 in my Ranger recently and the hiss was loud. So much so that I packed it back up and sent it back. I tested a pdx-f4 in the truck and it was almost dead silent. The power in the 9605 was good but I won't buy another unless it's for a build that the floor noise doesn't matter to me.


Sent from my mind using telekinesis


----------



## Jackal

I ran my two 4ch Nano's for a year or so. They were very powerful and I never had to worry about heat issues, not to mention much easier to hide than the class A/B's I've used in the past.


----------



## DDfusion

At the point I am now. Comparing my last 4 channel to my current. 
JL 450/4v2 to DD SS4A. 
The DD drop kicks it back to China. More power, more dynamics, much much smaller, less heat. 
At first I was disappointed but it was the MS-8 being a [email protected]%.


----------



## ChrisB

I'm really liking my MMATS HIFI-6150D. It has tons of power for its footprint.


----------



## dallasneon

ChrisB said:


> I'm really liking my MMATS HIFI-6150D. It has tons of power for its footprint.


I agree, amp is crazy powerful for its size.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Second Hand

I just bought and installed a JL HD900/5 to replace my old alpine 3535 and a PPI 300.2 and I just can't get it to sound good.
The sibilance is pronounced and I have not been able to get it to a acceptable level. To late to return it.
I don't enjoy listening to my stereo anymore. My ears get fatigued in 15 minutes and that's with the highs turned down to try and compensate for the sibilance. 
Old amps sounded great but I wanted to do it all with one amp under the passenger seat. I will buy a A/B amp for the fronts and use the JL HD900/5 for the sub. 

System is 
Pioneer DEH 80
Three way active so no rear fill.
Front JL XR6.5 Components
Sub Sealed JL 10-6v2
Toyota Sienna Mini Van
Tweeters are in dash mid in doors.


----------



## fcarpio

Second Hand said:


> I just bought and installed a JL HD900/5 to replace my old alpine 3535 and a PPI 300.2 and I just can't get it to sound good.
> The sibilance is pronounced and I have not been able to get it to a acceptable level. To late to return it.
> I don't enjoy listening to my stereo anymore. My ears get fatigued in 15 minutes and that's with the highs turned down to try and compensate for the sibilance.
> Old amps sounded great but I wanted to do it all with one amp under the passenger seat. I will buy a A/B amp for the fronts and use the JL HD900/5 for the sub.
> 
> System is
> Pioneer DEH 80
> Three way active so no rear fill.
> Front JL XR6.5 Components
> Sub Sealed JL 10-6v2
> Toyota Sienna Mini Van
> Tweeters are in dash mid in doors.


Did you change anything else besides the amp?


----------



## GarchingS54

and have you new finely adjusted your system?

btw. 
ALPINE PDX (V9) :thumbsup:
Sounds great on my Hertz ML280.3 and ML700.3 (fully active) + JL8w3v3
I couldn't hear a difference between my old DLS A4 Ultimate and the new PDX.


----------



## Brian Steele

GarchingS54 said:


> and have you new finely adjusted your system?
> 
> btw.
> ALPINE PDX (V9) :thumbsup:
> Sounds great on my Hertz ML280.3 and ML700.3 (active) + JL8w3v3
> I couldn't hear a difference between my DLS A4 Ultimate and the PDX.


The PDXs are the best amps I've owned so far.

Oh, to the previous poster concerning the HD900/5, are you driving the tweeters directly from the amp? If so, try connecting an 8 ohm, 20W resistor across the amp's terminals (or at the point where the speaker cables terminate on the tweeter's x-over, if you're still using an inline passive crossover with them. If that makes no difference, try a 4 ohm resistor instead (if you don't have a 20W one lying around, you could try a smaller one, but keep the volume lower. If you hear a difference, upgrade to a larger resistor). If any of that works, then it's time to replace the in-line passive crossover for your tweeters with one that presents a lower impedance to the amp at higher frequencies.


----------



## fcarpio

Has anyone put the NVX amps next to one of the other more commonly used? How did they stack up? I have used their class d monoblock and it was a beast. I am just about to do an install with their 5 channel amp to run my entire system.


----------



## Babs

I ran the NVX's then swapped to PDX's. Better fidelity, detail and control. Better noise floor. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ninetysix

I just picked up a pioneer GM-D8604 and I gotta say I'm pretty happy with it. Very clean so far, power seems about right, zero noise even with ear against a tweeter. It replaces a Boston GT-4100 which has the same 4x100 power rating and seems to do the same job just as well.

Also picked up a PDX-F6 which I have not used yet. Ultimately I'll use the F6 for my scan 10F & D2004s and the pioneer bridged for my illuminator 7", but I'll try one amp for the left and one amp for the right (two channels for mid & tweet, two bridged for mid bass) so I can A/B test them


----------



## hawaiiguy

voodoosoul said:


> Please give me your input.


Focal 900.6 makes me smile and drive the long way home. 
I have it as a 5 channel setup and its under my tundra passenger seat, still enough room for some gloves and a roll of paper towels under their as well. 

Input on a new HU though, I have the pioneer 720bt currently but would like a flac player.

or input on a processor/dac that could help with low quality compression? 

Amp is running...
Focal 165 K2P 100 watt rms fronts
Focal PS 165 60 watt rms rear 
Focal KX 27 11" sub 300 watt rms

all doors are double skinned inside and out as well as carpet padding on inside of door skin panels.

Its sweet sweet brilliance. 

I do have a Focal 600.4 to sell now that I have the 900.6


----------



## jamesjones

After installing the JBL MS amps in my VW I'm blown away. I wish they were still commonly available.


----------



## charles.beener

I am installing a Soundstream PN5.640d in my Ram today. Seems so strange being so small.

I was at one time a sponsored competitor and this thing is so small compared to the Xtants and Soundstream 10.2's I used to run.


----------



## fcarpio

Yesterday I got my NVX JAD900.5 installed and so far I am pretty impressed with it. I am feeding an optical signal to my PXA-H800, then to the amp and so far it is pretty clean and loud. I am having a few issues but they are most likely tuning related. I will post a review once I have everything sorted out.

A few initial observations. The sound is very clean and powerful for a 'smallish' amp. It gets warm, but you could hold your hand touching the amp for a while without getting burned. Some other amps you can't even touch. The sub channel seems a little weak, but I am pretty sure it is tuning related. It is fairly small, maybe 40% larger than my PXA. With amps like this there is no need to spend more to get good quality sound.

One thing I have noticed is that there are some low frequencies leaking to the mids, I don't know if this is the amp or the processor but I have not had the chance to look in to it. After I did my initial tuning it almost went away, but there are some songs that leak more than others. I was able to tell this because my mids were bottoming out, but that is pretty much fixed now.

More to come on this amp as soon as I get my tuning to where I like it.


----------



## jamesjones

fcarpio said:


> Yesterday I got my NVX JAD900.5 installed and so far I am pretty impressed with it. I am feeding an optical signal to my PXA-H800, then to the amp and so far it is pretty clean and loud. I am having a few issues but they are most likely tuning related. I will post a review once I have everything sorted out.
> 
> A few initial observations. The sound is very clean and powerful for a 'smallish' amp. It gets warm, but you could hold your hand touching the amp for a while without getting burned. Some other amps you can't even touch. The sub channel seems a little weak, but I am pretty sure it is tuning related. It is fairly small, maybe 40% larger than my PXA. With amps like this there is no need to spend more to get good quality sound.
> 
> One thing I have noticed is that there are some low frequencies leaking to the mids, I don't know if this is the amp or the processor but I have not had the chance to look in to it. After I did my initial tuning it almost went away, but there are some songs that leak more than others. I was able to tell this because my mids were bottoming out, but that is pretty much fixed now.
> 
> More to come on this amp as soon as I get my tuning to where I like it.


Awesome, thanks for the review.


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## charles.beener

The Soundstream PN 5.640 is pretty awesome. I am just a day in so far but the power from such a small amp is impressive. It pushes the subs just fine and it runs cool and clean. I have a small issue that i need to track down...I have some alternator whine out of one speaker. It stays the same volume no matter how much output i give the speaker. It is in my passenger rear fill.


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## Azskateman

Is soundstream now just like chinese stuff? for sure not the same company it use to be


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## rton20s

Azskateman said:


> Is the search button working on this site? for sure this is something that has been discussed dozens of times


FTFY. Welcome to DIYMA.


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## MrGreen83

The JL Audio HD amps get my vote 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drop1

I know this is a really old post but I've been running a jl xd 400/4 on focal flax for about a year. For the last week that same amp has been powering the utopia 165w rc's.

I'm really impressed with the little amp. There have been times when it's run out of headroom but at competition sound levels and slightly above it does really well.

. My favorite local shop was stunned when they found out that's what I was using for power.


It's time to retire it though. My mind can't handle a little class d amp on such a prestigious set of speakers. Just doesn't seem right.


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## Babs

The XD's come up a lot. I've probably said this before sorry but after finally hearing Erin's car running all XD's, I'm certainly a fan. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DDfusion

Is there another amp that beats the SS4A in the watt per sq inch war? I haven't found one. 

SS4a


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## rton20s

DDfusion said:


> Is there another amp that beats the SS4A in the watt per sq inch war? I haven't found one.
> 
> SS4a


Of course there is. If all we are looking at is power:footprint ratio. 

Studio Series ST-204D BT

160x4 in just shy of 49000 mm^2 compared to 180x4 in 48000 mm^2

I am sure there are others.


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## DDfusion

That says 160x4 and 180x4 hmm

Anyway, power is what makes the amp sound great.


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## Bruneti

I don't know how they compare in watt/inch^2, but the NVX MVP amps would have to be in the running. 


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## brumledb

The Focal fpx should be considered.

http://www.focal.com/usa/en/fpx-high-power-and-musicality/603-fpx-4800.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aj1735

I have read most of this very long discussion and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience yet with the zapco St BT amps. I know that a couple of people mentioned them but not really back then any actual usage. I was thinking about going smaller from my 4 c2k's and it's very tempting.


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## Hemi007

Hertz HDP 5


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## fcarpio

Lol, mmats 6150 at the bottom of the poll.


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## DC/Hertz

MMATS at the bottom and the HD that got last place in Chris Pate's big amp test. 
Goes to show how much people judge from a name.


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## PPI_GUY

DC/Hertz said:


> MMATS at the bottom and the HD that got last place in Chris Pate's big amp test.
> Goes to show how much people judge from a name.


Can you post a link to that test? I think I've read it but, just want to take another look to be certain. Did a search with no luck. Keyword fail on my part.


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## SkizeR

i think he means matt halls amp test?


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## I800C0LLECT

PPI_GUY said:


> Can you post a link to that test? I think I've read it but, just want to take another look to be certain. Did a search with no luck. Keyword fail on my part.


X2

Don't think I've seen that

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## DC/Hertz

Was it Matt Hall? Could have been.


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## I800C0LLECT

I found this...

https://issuu.com/diogoianaconi/docs/amplifier_shootout

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

I800C0LLECT said:


> I found this...
> 
> https://issuu.com/diogoianaconi/docs/amplifier_shootout
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


thats the one i was talking about


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## SPAZ

I'm definitely interested to see the full report. I had a zapco c2k 6.0, a DLS A3, mosconi as100.4 and the HD600/4 running in my car with the same speakers. Honestly I could not tell much of a difference with any of them. Maybe I just don't have a discerning ear but I made the call to sell the rest and keep the hd600/4 due to being able to use 4 channels x 150 and size.


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## I800C0LLECT

SkizeR said:


> thats the one i was talking about


That's under whelming :/

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## DC/Hertz

I'm probably wrong on this but I always thought width was defined by the speaker placement. That seems to be the biggest issues he has.


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## SkizeR

I800C0LLECT said:


> That's under whelming :/
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


whys that? thats a summary of a test that included i think something like 16 participants?


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> I'm probably wrong on this but I always thought width was defined by the speaker placement. That seems to be the biggest issues he has.


crosstalk


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## DC/Hertz

SkizeR said:


> crosstalk


Meaning they where moving left right info into mono?


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> Meaning they where moving left right info into mono?


LMGTFY


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## DC/Hertz

Why google when you have all the answer and you enjoy being brilliant.


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## fcarpio

DC/Hertz said:


> Why google when you have all the answer and you enjoy being brilliant.


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## I800C0LLECT

SkizeR said:


> whys that? thats a summary of a test that included i think something like 16 participants?


It was just a listening test. That's cool I guess but I don't get excited about a group ranking 16 amps into tiers.


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## SkizeR

asks a question, gets an answer that point him in the right direction, thanks them by insulting them (or complimenting himself even though he just asked a question? i cant really tell from the formatting)... makes sense

derek, heres a hint. this is one of the many reasons why no one anywhere you go likes you


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## Jedclampet

I ran a ARC XDI 1200.6 with some very nice gear see my signature. Then upgraded to a Zapco Z150.6 LX the difference was night and day! Arc was sold the next day. My point being an example like the Arc considered a high end class D is no match for a good or great Class AB. That was the lesson I learned from these two and thought to pass it on. Yes there was also a huge difference in the physical size of the Zapco but I managed to hide it. And by the way the cost wasn't a large difference in msrp.


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## fcarpio

Jedclampet said:


> I ran a ARC XDI 1200.6 with some very nice gear see my signature. Then upgraded to a Zapco Z150.6 LX the difference was night and day! Arc was sold the next day. My point being an example like the Arc considered a high end class D is no match for a good or great Class AB. That was the lesson I learned from these two and thought to pass it on. Yes there was also a huge difference in the physical size of the Zapco but I managed to hide it. And by the way the cost wasn't a large difference in msrp.


I got rid of my PPI Art Series (class A/B) amps in favor of a single Mmats 6150 (class D), which I found to be superior. Go figure...

Edit: I do have nice gear as well, but I don't have a signature.


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## DC/Hertz

SkizeR said:


> asks a question, gets an answer that point him in the right direction, thanks them by insulting them (or complimenting himself even though he just asked a question? i cant really tell from the formatting)... makes sense
> 
> derek, heres a hint. this is one of the many reasons why no one anywhere you go likes you


Oh relax. I don't really care if you like me, I don't have to live with you and you don't pay my bills. It's a car audio forum, don't take it to serious.


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## SkizeR

DC/Hertz said:


> Oh relax. I don't really care if you like me, I don't have to live with you and you don't pay my bills. It's a car audio forum, don't take it to serious.


thats not what you said when you were kicked out of the facebook group multiple times asking to come back in.. lol


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## DC/Hertz

Yeah I needed some help. Luckily Andy answers PMs.


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