# ipad, pure i20 and bit 1 setup



## db_Outlaw

Considering the idea of ditching my stock radio and replacing it with a used ipad (second gen) with 3G bypassing the DAC with a Pure i20 and then sending a digital signal to my bitone and finally to my AV5.1k.

My vehicle is a g8 and I'd hope to have the end result look like this build: Ipad in dash kit image by NateTejeda on Photobucket 

This is all new to me so I have a few questions:

1. I need 3G to be able to stream radio broadcasts (I still listen to the radio). Assuming I listen 1 hour/day, how much monthly bandwidth would I consume playing lossless files? 1GB/month data limit enough? Is 3G "fast enough" to stream music w/o buffering?

2. Is there a bundle to keep my steering wheel controls? I'd like to be able to at least keep volume. 

3. I'm not an itunes user. I assume I can copy audio files (lossless) from my computer to itunes and play then back on my ipad? Guess what I am asking is can I play non-purchased music via itunes?

4. I'd like a concrete list of what pieces I'd need to make this happen. Obviously a Pure i20, ipad and bitone. Is there a dock extender for the i20 which would allow me to put the dock further away from where my ipad would connect. What does the i20 power cord look like? Is there a cigarette adapter. Basically how will the i20 get power. Any digital toslink cable will connect the i20 to my bit1?

5. With the ipad in place, I lose HVAC controls. There's a touch device that I can purchase to reclaim those but I recently read up on Prautogy Halo which is blue tooth app to control ODB2 devices from your car's PC. According to the website, it doesn't look like it's out yet. Anyone heard of this app before?

6. I read that the bit one cannot be setup without using its supplied audio CD. Obviously this presets a problem with the removal of my HU. How do I circumvent this?


----------



## Jboogie

U might want to go over to the G8Board and PM VegasNate and ask him those questions. Thats his car in the picture u posted. At one time he was setting up a company to sell similiar parts to his setup. I lost track after not browsing that forum as much.


----------



## db_Outlaw

Yeah he goes by demon8 or something. I saw his name pop up when I was looking for radio bezel trim and a gauge cluster.

Guess I'll tap him on the shoulder and see...


----------



## t3sn4f2

db_Outlaw said:


> Considering the idea of ditching my stock radio and replacing it with a used ipad (second gen) with 3G bypassing the DAC with a Pure i20 and then sending a digital signal to my bitone and finally to my AV5.1k.
> 
> My vehicle is a g8 and I'd hope to have the end result look like this build: Ipad in dash kit image by NateTejeda on Photobucket
> 
> This is all new to me so I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. I need 3G to be able to stream radio broadcasts (I still listen to the radio). Assuming I listen 1 hour/day, how much monthly bandwidth would I consume playing lossless files? 1GB/month data limit enough? Is 3G "fast enough" to stream music w/o buffering?
> 
> Where will you be streaming lossless files from?
> 
> 2. Is there a bundle to keep my steering wheel controls? I'd like to be able to at least keep volume.
> 
> Nothing is available that will integrate volume control of the bit one plus track selection of the pure dock. And don't use the i-20's volume control its low quality and incrumentation selection is horrible.
> 
> 3. I'm not an itunes user. I assume I can copy audio files (lossless) from my computer to itunes and play then back on my ipad? Guess what I am asking is can I play non-purchased music via itunes?
> 
> Yes, as long as it is a format that is supported by iTunes. If not then you would need to find a media player app that plays that file, for instance "Flac Player" for Flac files, and load the files in a different fashion through iTunes. IIRC all those non iDevice API players are somewhat limited in functionality. Personally I would find a software that converts your lossless to Apple lossless and also transfers tag inf., if you need to do this of course.
> 
> 4. I'd like a concrete list of what pieces I'd need to make this happen. Obviously a Pure i20, ipad and bitone. Is there a dock extender for the i20 which would allow me to put the dock further away from where my ipad would connect. What does the i20 power cord look like? Is there a cigarette adapter. Basically how will the i20 get power. Any digital toslink cable will connect the i20 to my bit1?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/118616-testing-pure-i20-bit-1-5-ipod-pad-phone-digital-output.html
> 
> 5. With the ipad in place, I lose HVAC controls. There's a touch device that I can purchase to reclaim those but I recently read up on Prautogy Halo which is blue tooth app to control ODB2 devices from your car's PC. According to the website, it doesn't look like it's out yet. Anyone heard of this app before?
> 
> 6. I read that the bit one cannot be setup without using its supplied audio CD. Obviously this presets a problem with the removal of my HU. How do I circumvent this?


^^^^


----------



## db_Outlaw

Good stuff. Now I need #6 addressed. Anyone confirm or deny this?


----------



## t3sn4f2

db_Outlaw said:


> Good stuff. Now I need #6 addressed. Anyone confirm or deny this?


If so, dunno if this will work but maybe ripping the disk to the ipad and using the i-20's analog outputs temporarily into the bitone's analog inputs. digital and analog outputs on the i-20 are always on. I would however not leave the RCA plugged under use since maybe that could cause a ground loop issue. Unplug them from both ends when finished. And use the Toslink digital interface which will be completely electrically isolated and has been shown to sound identical to coax.


----------



## db_Outlaw

I think I am going to wait until the ipad mini comes out in 1-2 months and see what it's specs are. A 7" tablet will fit a lot easier in my console.


----------



## Vdubbin

I'm in the process of putting together a similar setup, completely ditching the head unit. After reading lots of mixed reviews on the i-20 dock I decided against it. Instead I'll be using the Apple Digital Media Adaptor which will give me HDMI from the iphone (ipad in your case). Problem is HDMI is digital audio and video together. Monoprice to the rescue! They have a simple HDMI Switch with a de-muxer that provides Optical and Coaxial digital outputs :-D I'll then go digital coax into a minidsp 2x8 for processing and DAC. 


I've got the digital media adaptor and demuxer/switch hooked up to my HomeTheater reciever for testing and its working great. MiniDSP is on it's way from China, ordered last week. The new version of the 2x8 board features a dipswitch that allows you to set the unbalanced output to 2Volts or 4Volts (per channel) so not sure if i'm going to need to keep my line driver from my previous setup, we'll see once its hooked up.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Vdubbin said:


> I'm in the process of putting together a similar setup, completely ditching the head unit. *After reading lots of mixed reviews on the i-20 dock I decided against it. * Instead I'll be using the Apple Digital Media Adaptor which will give me HDMI from the iphone (ipad in your case). Problem is HDMI is digital audio and video together. Monoprice to the rescue! They have a simple HDMI Switch with a de-muxer that provides Optical and Coaxial digital outputs :-D I'll then go digital coax into a minidsp 2x8 for processing and DAC.
> 
> 
> I've got the digital media adaptor and demuxer/switch hooked up to my HomeTheater reciever for testing and its working great. MiniDSP is on it's way from China, ordered last week. The new version of the 2x8 board features a dipswitch that allows you to set the unbalanced output to 2Volts or 4Volts (per channel) so not sure if i'm going to need to keep my line driver from my previous setup, we'll see once its hooked up.



Mixed reviews? 

It sounds like it should, no better or worse then any other digital source.

It maintains sync no matter the media players state (ie no full scale pops or ticks when in use)/

It boots and syncs in less than 5 sec.

It's DC power and requires a quality Dc to DC converter, just like any hdmi to spdif extractor.

It's cheaper than an extractor/digital av adapter combo.

It extracts a raw serial bit stream and re-clocks the data from it own internal clock. Improving jitter performance compared to an external uncompressed LPCM converter (ie an extractor). IOW it has the jitter benefits of an all in one digital box solution like a CD player.

It charges the iDevice. 

It always functions as advertised, well at least for my iPhone, always.

It has a IR remote which could possibly be integrated into an IR steering wheel remote device to be able to change track from the wheel itself.

Is that enough?

Oh by the way, here soemthing interesting on toslink versus typically electrically non isolated coax. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-truth-myths-industry-dogma/108838-digital-coax-sounds-better-then-toslink.html


----------



## chad

I stream from home to my iphone using subsonic. I go over 1GB a month easy and have it capped to 256KB/s, that is, however using GPS and normal phone usage, which is more often than not, under wifi outside the car.


----------



## Vdubbin

t3sn4f2 said:


> Mixed reviews?
> 
> It sounds like it should, no better or worse then any other digital source.
> 
> It maintains sync no matter the media players state (ie no full scale pops or ticks when in use)/
> 
> It boots and syncs in less than 5 sec.
> 
> It's DC power and requires a quality Dc to DC converter, just like any hdmi to spdif extractor.
> 
> It's cheaper than an extractor/digital av adapter combo.
> 
> It extracts a raw serial bit stream and re-clocks the data from it own internal clock. Improving jitter performance compared to an external uncompressed LPCM converter (ie an extractor). IOW it has the jitter benefits of an all in one digital box solution like a CD player.
> 
> It charges the iDevice.
> 
> It always functions as advertised, well at least for my iPhone, always.
> 
> It has a IR remote which could possibly be integrated into an IR steering wheel remote device to be able to change track from the wheel itself.
> 
> Is that enough?
> 
> Oh by the way, here soemthing interesting on toslink versus typically electrically non isolated coax.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-truth-myths-industry-dogma/108838-digital-coax-sounds-better-then-toslink.html


Wow this forum is freakin ruthless, chill son...

1. Ok, yes mixed reviews on amazon, issues of reliabiltiy and noise. also it has a bunch of crap i don't need, like it's own dac and a questionable digital volume control.

2. The digital media adaptor gives you an HDMI and dock connector so it too can CHARGE THE IPHONE 

3. I don't give a crap about infrared in my car, seriously? 

4. haven't had any sync issues with the dma and switch in my home tests, and it too powers on and connects within a few seconds.

5. who says the i-20's clock is more accurate than the iphone's? please provide technical proof of this. The phone is basically a computer so it's not perfect (busy multitasking) but is a $100 dock with a built in dac really a supior time source? doubtful. dedicated time clocks cost hundreds of dollars and aren't worth it for this setup. plus the minidsp will re-clock anyways. I have a hard time believing you even understand what jitter is.

6. i-20 $100 vs $40 digital av adaptor and $40 de-muxer. how is that more?

7. if i have any problems with the coaxial digital connection I can always switch to optical because the de-muxer has both outputs and the minidsp has both inputs. Initially i'm avoiding using sensitive fiberoptic cable in the harsh auto environment (bending around corners and idiot friends kicking things), but if electrical isolation becomes an issue I can switch and run it well.

Now I remember why i left this forum years ago, not sure why i'm back. oh thats right, I try to help people. I have a bachelors in audio engineering and am a fulltime IT proffessional, I don't know anything about digital signals lmfao:laugh:


----------



## chad

Vdubbin said:


> I have a bachelors in audio engineering and am a fulltime IT proffessional, I don't know anything about digital signals lmfao:laugh:


I believe we talked before... WTF hapened in the audio engineering side to make you move to the darkside of IT?

(although thee two are merging at a blinding rate)


----------



## Vdubbin

chad said:


> I believe we talked before... WTF hapened in the audio engineering side to make you move to the darkside of IT?
> 
> (although thee two are merging at a blinding rate)


possibly chad, I honeslty don't remember, haven't been on here in a long time, probably like 5+ years.

unfortunately making music doesn't always pay the bills so its computers during the day and music/speakers/cars when I have time to play with them.


----------



## chad

never a bad way to do it... 

I stayed more in the live end of music as opposed to the hamster cage.

Still work in music at a university, looking to go out live again on the weekends/holidays for supplement and cabin fever.


----------



## AfterFx Customs

db_Outlaw said:


> Considering the idea of ditching my stock radio and replacing it with a used ipad (second gen) with 3G bypassing the DAC with a Pure i20 and then sending a digital signal to my bitone and finally to my AV5.1k.
> 
> for starters, dont waste money on DAC pure. High Resolution Technologies - iStreamer
> this is what will work the best.
> 
> 4. I'd like a concrete list of what pieces I'd need to make this happen. Obviously a Pure i20, ipad and bitone. Is there a dock extender for the i20 which would allow me to put the dock further away from where my ipad would connect. What does the i20 power cord look like? Is there a cigarette adapter. Basically how will the i20 get power. Any digital toslink cable will connect the i20 to my bit1?
> 
> 5. With the ipad in place, I lose HVAC controls. There's a touch device that I can purchase to reclaim those but I recently read up on Prautogy Halo which is blue tooth app to control ODB2 devices from your car's PC. According to the website, it doesn't look like it's out yet. Anyone heard of this app before?
> 
> 6. I read that the bit one cannot be setup without using its supplied audio CD. Obviously this presets a problem with the removal of my HU. How do I circumvent this?


load the bitone tracks on to your idevice. thats what we do, never have an issue.

for starters, dont waste money on DAC pure. High Resolution Technologies - iStreamer
this is what will work the best.


----------



## senior800

AfterFx Customs said:


> load the bitone tracks on to your idevice. thats what we do, never have an issue.


I had a very similar setup a few years ago (onkyo nd-s1 instead of the i20) and it didn't work for me. I had to connect up a home CD player to be able to launch the bit.one software, every time I disconnected the battery. Playing off the iPod didn't work.


----------



## t3sn4f2

delete


----------



## AfterFx Customs

just load the files from the bitone software into i-tunes and transfer them to your idevice. works 100%


----------



## win1

Nice thanks I'm going to try the iStreamer


----------



## fahrfrompuken

Any updates? Did this work for you?


----------



## lovedoc1

I am going the Ipad to pure I-20 route into a Bit.1 using optical out. I have been testing it in the home and had no noise issues so far. It has been an excelint reliable product. My fiberglass ipad mold is complete so it shouldn't be too much longer before I get it in the car. I will let you know how it turns out.

One other thing I like about the I-20 is the actual 30 pin connector. I was considering the 90degree adapter from soundman for a clean install. The connector on the I-20 is 90 degrees with 2 tiny screw holes. It also has about 4 inches of cable coming from it to the board. I will mount the I-20 directly to the back of the fiberglass mold. All in all the I-20 came out cheaper for me by the time I would have purchased the other adapters if I went another route.


----------



## nathan08

Soundmancaraudio.com

U get all the info. For what u need.

1. Jl audio line driver
2. I streamer 
3. 90 degree adapter

I doing mine right now for my car.


----------



## lovedoc1

I chose not to go the I streamer route because it is $200 versus the i20 that is $100.


----------



## fahrfrompuken

And if you have a Bit One or Bit Ten D you can use the volume control on the DRC.


----------



## lovedoc1

fahrfrompuken said:


> And if you have a Bit One or Bit Ten D you can use the volume control on the DRC.


i am using the B1.1 and the DRC volume control doesn't work when I am using the optical. I use the volume control on my iPad. Is there a setting to change in the software to be able to use the DRC volume control or is it because I am using digital in?


----------



## fahrfrompuken

Did you get resolution on this? I am wondering how you fixed the volume issue on the Bit One.


----------



## fahrfrompuken

Ok, so last night I was hunting and found this: Vizualogic TBCIG-STMI2 Universal Bluetooth Kit

The Bit One has a phone input. All I have to do is hit the little round button to make or take calls and the Bit One will mute the music and I can take the call. I will still have to interface with the phone and the button, but that is better than having to switch inputs using the DRC to take a call. I got this little wonder for $50 brand new, so if it does not work that well I'm not out that much money. This is the same device that Soundman out in LA used in his Tacoma.


----------



## fahrfrompuken

Any word?


----------

