# 3.5" SQ Coaxial...exisits?



## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a truly exceptional 3.5" coaxial or component set. I'd like to keep my dash simple...stock. I have some SoundStream SST3.5, which are cool because they're bi-amp/bi-wire. ...but they are not fantastic speakers. In fact, one of the woofers just started buzzing with midrange (voice).

There's probably room for a tweeter under the grill...but I'd like the woofer to basically drop in without modding the dash.

Other equipment:
Alpine CDa-7995
Alpine PDX 4.100 & 1.600
Morel MW 166 in doors
MBQuart PWE 254 in .5 cuft sealed

Car: 2007 Saab 93 SS Aero


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Must have missed this post in your search?
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41797

What crossover point are you using on the Soundstreams? I would bet it is too low and/or you are feeding them too much power?

There are no truely exceptional 3.5" coaxials around because many would agree that to get truely exceptional sound in the car would in many cases require custom work as well as larger drivers working in a three-way or four-way system. So all of the "drop-in" 3.5" coaxials one will find are usually lower line models from various companies. There are and have been nice 4"-4.5" sets around. Cutting to get a 4" in would be the "best" for sound...but not practical for what you are asking.

In your case, I would say find a good 3" full range driver...they might fit and run a little on the small side...or they might be too small and need a baffle. This would be only a small problem that is easy to fix.

*FULLRANGE SMALL DRIVERS*
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=49&ObjectGroup_ID=576

I would run one of the full ranges by itself or with a cheap (But good sounding crossed over high) small tweeter like the Dayton ND16FA, ND20FA-6, ND20FB-4 tweets that are $4 and $5.88 each.

*UNDER $25 TWEETERS*
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage...D=49&ObjectGroup_ID=454&SrchP1=0&SrchP2=24.99

Or the AURA NT1-204-8D Titanium for $7.88 each:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=121&products_id=1767

*TWEETER TEST *(Dayton and Aura tweets tested)
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

I would do this over running a coaxial like the Infinity 32.9cf, Boston Acoustics S35, Hertz Energy ECX 87, JL Audio TR350CXi, etc.


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

Sorry, WLDock4...I completely missed that one. I have no excuse. I'm definitely guilty on this one. I'd been concentrating my searches on exactly what you'd proposed.

I used the Aura 3" full-range with a Vifa tweeter in my last car. I still have them, actually (x3). What I didn't love was that the Vifas were a 6 Ohm load and the Auras 4 Ohm, which created an overlap in the crossover points in my Diamond Audio crossover (designed for 2.5k). I had some harshness which was either due to this or the windshield loading...you may have seen my windshield foam post... Those Auras won't fit in the new dash anyway because of their underhung structure.

I had my eyes on the L3 and some of the other ones reviewed in the post from last week covering a bunch of 3-3.5" full-range.

My main dilema is that I don't have a bunch of time to do this stuff anymore. We have a 6 month old and putting a few hours together at any point is just about impossible for me. So, if someone said "those Infinity Kappa 3.5" are as good as any 3.5" DIY" I'd just do that...

I'm running them as the top 2 run passive in a 3-way, so I don't much care about bass response unless they're so good that it would make sense to lower their high-pass and the low-pass of the Morels.

I've run the SoundStreams in 2 different configurations:
1) With the Diamon Audio crossover. The drivers are 3 Ohm, so this should be creating a dip in the FR with the low-pass somewhere below 2.5k and the high-pass somewhere above 2.5K. The "crossover" that came with them was a 12dB high-pass @ 9k (natural roll-off for the woofer). When I started hearing the buzzing, I thought it was coming from the tweeter...so I switched back to...
2) Original 12dB high-pass on tweeters @9k and natural roll-off of the woofers

Both configurations are being sent a high-pass signal at about 350Hz via the on-board crossover in my amp. The amp is rated at 100 Watts regadless of impedance (i.e. 2 or 4 Ohm). The speakers are rated 75W RMS, 150W Peak...but the gains are very low to balance them with the rest of the system.

I was surprised to find that it was the woofers doing the buzzing. They were only being sent between 350Hz -<2.5kHz...and not being blasted. It was the tweeters I was worried about, getting more than an octave reduction in their high-pass.

Thank you very much for giving me that post...again, I'm sorry for not doing the search this time. It obviously would have come up right away. I'm dope.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

No sweat man. I just try to remind people that there is a lot of info here if you are willing to search. I have been around for a bit but I don't spend a ton of time posting as you can see from my post count. However, when I do post I do my best to help other out with reminders, links, and sound advice, etc.

As far a a driver for you...I seriously doubt that you would be happy with 3.5" coaxials that are available. O.T.O.H. if you are willing to drop big dough on the HAT L3 drivers then those might work? Also, just as good at a much lower price, VIFA makes a 3.5" full range, the T9 driver. The driver IS made in a 4 ohm version but Madisound does not have it listed...may be on backorder?

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=153&products_id=8404

http://www.tymphany.com/tg9fd-10-04

Search for this driver will show that it is a nice one as well. Here is a review of this VIFA driver and the HAT L3. The VIFA driver is a modified version named "Trius."

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2974&highlight=trius

VIFA TRIUS TEST:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=641&highlight=trius

I had a set of the TRIUS drivers myself and they were very nice sounding speakers. Could run them without a tweet if you had to...but would be better with a small tweet.


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

excellent...thank you...
Heck, I may just have to try out a full-range without tweeter one of these days...


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

No one mentioned the genesis studio mid? It isn't trivial to top, even by using conventional drivers/installation. If you want your "SQ" in a 3" mid package, that's gonna be it.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Wow Whiterabbit, I guess I did not get the impression that the poster was looking to spend that kind of coin as he has basic Soundstream drivers in there now and looking for a "drop in" solution? That is why they were not mentioned...but since you went down that road....

That Genesis Studio 3" coincident Mid/tweet (custom made by Thiel Audio) seems like a winner...However, these are priced at $799 a pair!

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=141906
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=138935
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=135227
http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/models/Current_Models/CS2_4/cs2_4nws.html

















As far as high-end 3" drivers...Some would also argue that the FOCAL UTOPIA 3 W2 Be is one of the top small mids around....about $500 a set.

http://www.utopia-be.com/Products/spec_sheets/3W2_us.pdf

















If you are willing to spend big money there are 3" SQ solutions...but these drivers were not really designed as drop-in solutions...more custom all out SQ installs...But do what works for YOU.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Oh, also there is a new home audio JORDAN type full range driver out made by Mark Audio. These look interesting at $129 a pair. Has a 4" flange though? I am sure someone will try these in the car as some point.

http://markaudio.com/en/alpair5/intro

BUY them here:
http://www.creativesound.ca/










Still not really what you are looking for? Try out the VIFA T9.


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

JMachan said:


> excellent...thank you...
> Heck, I may just have to try out a full-range without tweeter one of these days...


I use the L3, and have a similar mounting (in dash firing at the windshield). A few days ago I lost a tweeter (wires just came loose somehow). I turned the other tweet off and just ran the L3 full range from 320hz up. It had no top end at all, and sounded very muted in the upper register (4.5k and up), even when boosting the EQ.

Once the tweet wiring thing was taken care of, and I turned them back on, it was much better. Just FYI since I saw you were considering that option.


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## Et Cetera (Jul 28, 2006)

Why not keep it simple, see the Rainbow SL120 coaxials


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

Et Cetera:
Rainbow SL 120 = 4 3/4"
Rainbow SL 100 = 4"
I need 3 1/2" ...not much room in there for cutting or much depth...and not much time for modding/baffle building (which would likely negate my ability to use the stock grill).

Foglight...thanks for the warning...that's what I'd guess would happen...you confirmed it.

Thanks for the high-end solution, Whiterabbit...probably not where I'm going, but maybe someone else will stumble across this someday and that will be just what they're looking for.

I'm a separate's guy and understand the up in quality, in general, as well as the issues a coaxial mount can have (anyone know of a 3.5" point-source?).

It's probably 4:1 that I'm going to end up running a full-range with at tweeter just like the last car. My hesitance is that I'm not active for these speaks beyond the hihg-pass and that leaves the passive crossover to consider. I have some very nice Diamond Audio crossovers at 2.5kHz for 4Ohm, but we all know that a good marriage between drivers and crossover is a bit more complicated than that (notch fitlers, etc.).

I guess what I was hoping for was that a reputable company had actually built what amounts to a fairly nice 3.5" coaxially mounted component system (real-live 2-way crossover built specifically for those drivers)...but that I'd not heard of them because I've been out of the game.


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## Autophile (Nov 10, 2007)

The best 3.5" full range driver i can think of is the Genesis Studio driver but it is expensive.

You can get some coaxials in 3.5" size. Eg. Hertz ECX-87 if looking for cheaper options.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Anyone ever tried slapping a small tweeter over the side of the cone of a good 3.5. I've tried covering 1/4 of the cone on a 2" (LP at 2500Hz) with a nickel and its pretty transparent to the sound, much less then when its centered over the coil. Might be able to make your own awesome sounding CDT style 3.5 inch coax, especially if you listen off axis where the tweeter doesn't block the line of site to the cone.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-827

_A compact high-fidelity point source driver! Tang Band's W3-1723SA offers 100 Hz to 20 kHz response in a 3" diameter coaxial package. The fabric dome tweeter features a neodymium magnet and 1/2" voice coil, while the polypropylene cone woofer includes a Santoprene surround and a shielded ceramic ferrite magnet. 

Specifications: Power handling: 10 watts RMS/20 watts max *VCdia: 13/16" *Impedance: 6 ohms *Re: 5.4 ohms *Frequency range: 100-20,000 Hz *Fs: 100 Hz *SPL: 86 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.0434 cu. ft. *Qms: 2.27 *Qes: .58 *Qts: .46 *Xmax: 1.1 mm *Dimensions: A: 3.66", B: 2.68", C: 2.20". _

$20.78 each


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## bhg41088 (Nov 5, 2006)

I vote these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-030
...tucked in the corner of the dash on each side, on axis, and cross 6db/oct at 8-10khz. Use these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-427
...as your mids. Should work out great and come in under $40.00. I think people are forgetting that these full range drivers are not full range off axis. A small tweeter to fill in the top and pull the sound stage up would be a great idea.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

JMachan said:


> It's probably 4:1 that I'm going to end up running a full-range with at tweeter just like the last car. My hesitance is that I'm not active for these speaks beyond the hihg-pass and that leaves the passive crossover to consider. I guess what I was hoping for was that a reputable company had actually built what amounts to a fairly nice 3.5" coaxially mounted component system (real-live 2-way crossover built specifically for those drivers)...but that I'd not heard of them because I've been out of the game.


There are no "High End" sets that are going to drop right in. I actually think you could creat your own good sounding set without spending a lot of time and money. Just pick up a set of the 3"-3.5"mids that have been used and measured. This will give you the characteristics of the driver. If you want to spend big, get the HAT L3's that you were thinking about or something cheaper like the VIFA TG9FD 10-04 that I mentioned:
https://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_cat...&manufacturiers=33&niveau1=&niveau2=&niveau3=

That Vifa driver has an extended top end range so you could add a small tweet and cross it over in the 6000-8000Hz range. Again add one of the small, cheap, and tested Dayton tweets. Make a cheap bracket to mount it on. 

The crossovers you can make yourself (Toss that Diamond crossover). Plan on running a simple 6dB low pass crossover for the mid and a 12dB crossover for the tweets. You just need some caps, coils, and resistors (to tame the tweets down to taste). If you read through a basic guide to making crossovers you should be all set.

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/building-a-crossover.cfm
http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/crossover-component-selection-guide.cfm
http://www.partsexpress.com/resources.cfm

It is not hard at all to make a basic crossover and I would bet that the results using the low cost Vifa mid, Dayton tweet would be better than dropping in some cheap coaxials that most times sound thin and bright with those crapy tweets they put on those. The drivers I mentioned have all been measured and faired pretty well. They is no reason a smooth sounding SQ set of coaxials can not be custom made using these drivers. If you fear making crossovers, you can have custom crossovers made using LEAP software but it will cost: http://www.madisound.com/services/leap.php

You came to a DIY forum looking for an off the shelf drop in answer. However, you got a DIY answer and I think that is the route to take if you are serious about SQ in a small format driver. The BRAND name companies(Diamond, JL Audio, etc) don't offer any serious 3.5" drivers. The smaller ones that do gear it towards the more educated big spending SQ crowd that plan to either do it themselves or have a professional do the work. I see you have read some of the reviews around here on these drivers:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41582&highlight=dynaudio+tweeter&page=4

Many of us don't have a ton of time but with the info given here I think you can make your own SQ set with little investment of time and money.


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks WLDock. I'm happy for the DIY responses...I'm a DIYer by nature, just not much time. Crossover building isn't a problem. I am not, however, a DIYer by principle. Every so often the big companies get something right. I would not sacrifice SQ just in order to say I did it myself.

Let's face it, how much of what we do around here is really hard-core DIY? We're not fabricating our own drivers, or even amplifiers,...building crossovers is really as DIY as it gets for 99.9%...how many even wind their own coils? So, I'm not going to get to excited over building a crossover for the sake of claiming DIY. It's painting by numbers, not "art".

At the same time, there's no doubt in my mind that the solution you suggested is leaps-and-bounds over the typocal 3.5" coax...I was just wondering what people had encountered.

The Oracle at Delphi gave Socrates his props as the smartest person in the world for knowing what he did not know, afterall.


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