# Little SQ install in a E36 M3 :)



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

just got this one done, its the first SQ install i have done in a E36. this one was a yellow 97 m3 coupe.

goals:

1. very good sound quality
2. clean and stealthy
3. reuse some existing gear provided by the customer

lets get started:

the signal starts with alpine 7898 hiding face headunit that was already installed in the vehicle:










front stage is a pair of Seas Lotus reference 6.5" two way components, the tweeters were installed into the A pillar. this turned out to be a bigger challenge than normal due to the fact htat there is zero room behindt he factory A pillar cover, and the seas tweeter is quite large...so it had to be moled out a bit more than normal:



















here are two quick build up pics:

the molding:










and finished vinyling (lots of pulling and cursing lol)










the midbass also presented a challenge, since the stock size houses a 5.25, and the lotus is a rather large 6.5", after some deliberating, what i came up with was to mold a ring baffle into the stock kick panels, cut open the back area some more, and put plenty of clay and dampening into it, so when i install the spekaer and the kick against hte back metal, it forms a decent seal the midbass utilizes hte stock cavity behind the metal. 

but here is hwat they look like installed in the car, very stealthy and unobtrusive, the kicks are texture coated:





































some build up pics of the kicks:

here you see the ring baffles molded into the stock kick panel:










after texture coating:










the back built up wtih modeling clay and dampening:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

passenger side speaker installed:










driver side:










bad pics but the cavity oipened up a bit more and fbuilt up a bit too with clay and dampening:



















the front as a whole:










and the USB cable for the zapco processor comes out of hte glovebox for tuning:










moving on to the trunk, a very simple design, here is what it looks like all covered up:










pop off the panels and an image dynamics IDQ10 fires backward, and a macintosh MCC404M 4 channel amp sits in the floor, both are flushed mounted in yellow vinyl. 














































the macintosh amp poweres the front stage active with 100 watts per channel, while an PPI art 600.2 sends 600 watts to the idq10. both amps were provided by the customer.

here is the wiring below the floor, you can see the PPI amp on the right, and the zapco DSP6 processor infront of hte amp 










its not tuned yet, but Leon will get to play with it a bit more, it should sound pretty good in the end, though so far, i am having some reservations about macintosh amps hehe...but we will see how it goes after tuning


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## darkknight1999 (Jul 13, 2008)

Looks good. 

Why didn't you angle the mids in the kick panels? Seems kinda like you have the sound aimed right at the drivers shoe.


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

very nice and simplistic install. good work.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Damn, I wish I had e36 kicks


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

Awesome work man...


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

darkknight1999 said:


> Looks good.
> 
> Why didn't you angle the mids in the kick panels? Seems kinda like you have the sound aimed right at the drivers shoe.


no point, a big advantage of bmws is their large kick area stock speaker. aiming it on axis would sorta defeat the point of space saving with them...

as far as aiming to the drivers shoe, they arent spotlights my friend  of axis response is fine


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## darkknight1999 (Jul 13, 2008)

simplicityinsound said:


> no point, a big advantage of bmws is their large kick area stock speaker. aiming it on axis would sorta defeat the point of space saving with them...
> 
> as far as aiming to the drivers shoe, they arent spotlights my friend  of axis response is fine


Maybe not spotlight but I can tell you this, if you have your shoe covering the speaker it will detract from the sound quality. Put your hand over a tweeter next time... its the same thing.


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## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Very nice install!

I really wouldn't expect anything less from you.... 

Looks fantastic!

Mark


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

breathtaking...very clean trunk.

I dare say that what comes out of a tweeter is affected quite a bit more by a hand than what comes out of a midbass, DarkKnight1999. It's not the same at all. 

If the off-axis is good in the mid-bass freqs you're working with and there aren't any funcky reflections...and your foot isn't resting against the MB... Heck that foot may just act as a bit of a diffuser.

Of course the man that did that install doesn't need me defending him. Nice job.


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## BLD MOVS (Sep 23, 2007)

Very nice, once again. That trunk just kicks some ass. Fantastic example of a stealth install.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

darkknight1999 said:


> Maybe not spotlight but I can tell you this, if you have your shoe covering the speaker it will detract from the sound quality. Put your hand over a tweeter next time... its the same thing.


and how does on axis kicks help if you insist that a foot next to a speaker distracts from SQ?  i guess we are all mistaken al lthis time doing kick panel installs. 

infact, unless you are used to dong dash MIDbasses, can you name a MIDBASS location that is not affected by some part of the body? how is a stock lower door location midbass any different, infact, one can argue that a leg is bigger than a foot hehe...

but i am sure its not my place to be defending off axis kick panel locations in bimmers


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## aboof (Jul 6, 2008)

No, the entire car is wrecked because of those kicks. I can dispose of it for him, though.

Seriously, I have no idea about on/off axis, but this install looks awesome as usual.


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## darkknight1999 (Jul 13, 2008)

Well I don't know about you but most pro kicks I've seen down or have done myself have at least some kind of angle. But you are right they are a mid bass driver so it is much less important, but for proper imaging they should have an angle on them. 
I'll give you that they have them there stock which I guess is why you put them there... but if that is soooo great why even change them at all? Just because a car manufacture put something in place doesnt mean it the best place for it... since all we do is change the car to fit our listening needs. Now there are a 100 reasons to leave them there like that.... I understand that, personal preference, cost(that can be a big one) the style and design... whatever the reason.

I'm not saying you don't do nice work btw because you do. I just disagree with the placement but you may have great reasons to put them there. Either way nice job on the install.


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## marbat (Mar 16, 2008)

What kind of carpet did you use for the trunk color match?

Also if you have a schematic for the dimensions on all the trunk stuff and you don't need it anymore... you know who to PM .


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

Thats very nice, I wish I would have saved myself some time and just did my E36 kicks off axis, it would sound AOK in my book. One thing about using the kick covers as the baffle is that they really need to be screwed to the metal of the kick- both for sealing into the cavity and because they are kind of flimsy. I'm sure you are on top of that  I'm more just throwing it out there for people who may want to emulate your work!


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

darkknight1999 said:


> Well I don't know about you but most pro kicks I've seen down or have done myself have at least some kind of angle. But you are right they are a mid bass driver so it is much less important, but for proper imaging they should have an angle on them.
> I'll give you that they have them there stock which I guess is why you put them there... but if that is soooo great why even change them at all? Just because a car manufacture put something in place doesnt mean it the best place for it... since all we do is change the car to fit our listening needs. Now there are a 100 reasons to leave them there like that.... I understand that, personal preference, cost(that can be a big one) the style and design... whatever the reason.
> 
> I'm not saying you don't do nice work btw because you do. I just disagree with the placement but you may have great reasons to put them there. Either way nice job on the install.


If you look at every successful E36 , the mids were straight across off axis. Tony Pasquale, multi IASCA and USAC world champion had JBL10s off axis in his kicks. I had IDQ8s and Genesis Absolute 5s off axis in my kicks.
The location works extremely well off axis.
the primary reason for aiming speakers more on axis to to compensate for very poor pathlength differences between each side so the speakers beam more energy toward the other side and to compensate for poor off axis response of a speaker. a 3rd reason in kick panel installs is b/c most vehicles dont have enough room to recess a Mid into the area, so using the corner area provides more depth clearance so its easier to just aim them more on axis.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

so that Zapco processor let you tune the system? if so what functions does it control? EQ/TA/Crossover?


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

BeatsDownLow said:


> so that Zapco processor let you tune the system? if so what functions does it control? EQ/TA/Crossover?


Go to their website and download the PDF manual- the thing literally does EVERYTHING! Well, almost...



A question for the OP: The program for zapco, can the window be resized? and how long do the changes take to "load" from the PC to the amp. I have been thinking about using it with a carpc to make adjustments on the fly and I need to know if the window will fit the resolution on my screen and whether or not it responds quick enough while using the system. Thnx


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> If you look at every successful E36 , the mids were straight across off axis. Tony Pasquale, multi IASCA and USAC world champion had JBL10s off axis in his kicks. I had IDQ8s and Genesis Absolute 5s off axis in my kicks.
> The location works extremely well off axis.
> the primary reason for aiming speakers more on axis to to compensate for very poor pathlength differences between each side so the speakers beam more energy toward the other side and to compensate for poor off axis response of a speaker. a 3rd reason in kick panel installs is b/c most vehicles dont have enough room to recess a Mid into the area, so using the corner area provides more depth clearance so its easier to just aim them more on axis.


I'm guessing those were all 3 ways then with the MB's down there?? If your trying to get a woofer to pair up with a tweeter in the a pillar then you need to get them on axis more. There is no MB speaker with good enough off axis response to match up to a regualr tweet unless you have your tweets playing wicked low (which I HATE doing) or are using a TON of EQ- or else your are just listening to reflections...


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Nice car, nice equipments, poor install  
Awesome, Bing!


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Mic10is said:


> If you look at every successful E36 , the mids were straight across off axis. Tony Pasquale, multi IASCA and USAC world champion had JBL10s off axis in his kicks. I had IDQ8s and Genesis Absolute 5s off axis in my kicks.
> The location works extremely well off axis.
> the primary reason for aiming speakers more on axis to to compensate for very poor pathlength differences between each side so the speakers beam more energy toward the other side and to compensate for poor off axis response of a speaker. a 3rd reason in kick panel installs is b/c most vehicles dont have enough room to recess a Mid into the area, so using the corner area provides more depth clearance so its easier to just aim them more on axis.


Oooooh, Tony's M3... Great great sounding car!!
What is he running now, Mic?
How's big daddy Mic doin?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

amapro704 said:


> Go to their website and download the PDF manual- the thing literally does EVERYTHING! Well, almost...
> 
> 
> 
> A question for the OP: The program for zapco, can the window be resized? and how long do the changes take to "load" from the PC to the amp. I have been thinking about using it with a carpc to make adjustments on the fly and I need to know if the window will fit the resolution on my screen and whether or not it responds quick enough while using the system. Thnx



the window cannot be resized, well it can, but the part containing the tuning will stay the same size even if you maximize it, normally i dont have it maximizd like that so just the window with the tuning section shows, but i cant let people see all my porn on my desktop!!!  

when you make changes on the PC, the change on the amp/eq is immediate. no delay, the minute you doit, you hear hte difference.

i dont suggest doing it on the fly, if you mean while driving, as there are a LOT of functions on the menu so clicking the right one on a small touch screen may be tough, they do sell the DRC-SL remote controller for htat purpose


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

amapro704 said:


> I'm guessing those were all 3 ways then with the MB's down there?? If your trying to get a woofer to pair up with a tweeter in the a pillar then you need to get them on axis more. There is no MB speaker with good enough off axis response to match up to a regualr tweet unless you have your tweets playing wicked low (which I HATE doing) or are using a TON of EQ- or else your are just listening to reflections...


acutally, as far as i know, not all are three ways. if i recall, Tony ran horns?, mic had both kicks midbss and midrange off axis? 

also, how much experince doy o uhave with he rt27f? and why do you hate playing tweeters low if you can indeed do so? 

well, once again, i am going to leave the theory stuff to you guys hehe, no matter what i say, people arent going to be convinced, I just do the stuff from real world experience, and to me, doing it off axis sounds fine in many occassions.

b


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

simplicityinsound said:


> acutally, as far as i know, not all are three ways. if i recall, Tony ran horns?, mic had both kicks midbss and midrange off axis?
> 
> also, how much experince doy o uhave with he rt27f? and why do you hate playing tweeters low if you can indeed do so?
> 
> ...


No I agree it probably sounds stellar, just with those guys winning competitions, I doubt they were able to do it off axis with a standard 2 way set up. Lots of cars sound good-great even-that would probably fail miserably at a competitive level. I have 0 experience with the rt27f, but I have never liked the sound of a 1" tweeter under 3k- Just my opinion I guess and more from a tonality standpoint. I am with you- what works in real life is more important than theory or what looks good on paper. Thanks for the info on Zapco's DSP program 


Oh and PS, I dont think you need to convince anyone of anything, having seen your work


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i agree with you about hte tweeter thing, but the rt27 really is the one tweeter i have had a lot of experiences fo far that can and will go low, its the chamber in the back i believe? I think eng or leon would be much better at explaining why this tweeter is more comfy going low than others?


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

Yeah some are better than others at it! Another q for ya quick, if you make the window smaller does it then chop off part of the tuning interface? Thanks man!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

if you make it smaller it will just go right to the interface part only..if you play it on a car pc, it depends on the resolution, but you may be able to do it so the tuning screen fills the entire panel of the monitor, that would be idea...but again, never tried, so i have no idea, maybe you can contact [email protected] about it?


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## dvflyer (May 11, 2007)

Nice.


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

OK thanks! Keep up the fine work!


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

RT27 has FS of 1100 hz, it is safe to cross it around 1.8K or 2K.
Personally, it helps bringing stages up, compared to a tweeter that is crossed at 3K or more...


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## amapro704 (Mar 23, 2008)

dual700 said:


> RT27 has FS of 1100 hz, it is safe to cross it around 1.8K or 2K.
> Personally, it helps bringing stages up, compared to a tweeter that is crossed at 3K or more...


D971 tweet has fs of 950hz, sounds like crap below 3k with any volume...


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## 1zach4 (Feb 13, 2008)

Another great install! I don't know how long i've spent browsing your installs for ideas and inspiration lol


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Awesome work as expected... then again we have come expect certain standards. Niiiice M3...

Funny thing is, I would have probably shown the PPI off instead, funny that.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

hehe the ppi amp is in MUCH worse shape cosmetically than he mac


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## turbotuli (Jan 30, 2008)

Very nice! I haven't seen this method in an e36 before and I wish I had before I went through the hassle of enlarging the metal hole in my kicks with a dremel. So, you just built up the back of the kick panel trim piece with clay and dampening to seal it to the chassis? How did you secure it to the car? Did you use the stupid plastic clips it comes with?


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## moosejuice (Oct 5, 2007)

Great install bing, As always simple and clean looking....

B-


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

turbotuli said:


> Very nice! I haven't seen this method in an e36 before and I wish I had before I went through the hassle of enlarging the metal hole in my kicks with a dremel. So, you just built up the back of the kick panel trim piece with clay and dampening to seal it to the chassis? How did you secure it to the car? Did you use the stupid plastic clips it comes with?


i also did enlarge the plastic hole a bit so the large seas motor cna fit correctly. its secured at the front with the plastic clip and at the back with a screw and screw cap...not going anywhere  definetly dont use ust the plastic clip thingy

b


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

amapro704 said:


> D971 tweet has fs of 950hz, sounds like crap below 3k with any volume...


Never played with it, so I can't say..
But I've played with Seas since 01, so..


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Everything looks amazing as always.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

amapro704 said:


> I'm guessing those were all 3 ways then with the MB's down there?? If your trying to get a woofer to pair up with a tweeter in the a pillar then you need to get them on axis more. There is no MB speaker with good enough off axis response to match up to a regualr tweet unless you have your tweets playing wicked low (which I HATE doing) or are using a TON of EQ- or else your are just listening to reflections...


I had IDQ8s playing from 50-200 and Genesis Absolute playing from 200 up to where my high freq drivers picked up.

Jeff Smith Accord that won finals had his mids off axis, at around a 30 degree upward angle, but was not on axis with any listener.
even our own Hebrew Hammer had his mids much more off axis than on axis.
Its actually very common to have the mids off axis, especially in installs using drivers like Dyns or Morel that have good off axis response.


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## vull (Aug 16, 2008)

damn those footwell speaker covers look sick 
can you make 1 more set and then sell them to me?
i need them for 16,5cm DLS speakers


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## jameslandy (Dec 10, 2009)

Really like this install, especially the tweeter locations. Im guessing moving the tweeters to the pillars has much improved the sound from the stock location.


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

what are you using for the texture Bing? SEM? or bedliner?


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

These are the types of installs I really like, and liked doing. Something that looks so clean and not overpowering or obtrusive. The kicks and pillar panels look almost stock, the trunk is perfect in my opinion. It's very similar to what I would do.


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## ryancrouch (May 23, 2009)

Sorry to thread hijack (AWESOME INSTALL BTW) but anyone know what JBL 10s Tony Pasquale used? I can't find a pro 10 in JBLs catalog and the 8 inch JBL 2218 is out of production. And again love the install, especially that trunk, reminds me of the trunk in the Speaker Works Acura Legend.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

ryancrouch said:


> Sorry to thread hijack (AWESOME INSTALL BTW) but anyone know what JBL 10s Tony Pasquale used? I can't find a pro 10 in JBLs catalog and the 8 inch JBL 2218 is out of production. And again love the install, especially that trunk, reminds me of the trunk in the Speaker Works Acura Legend.


Pasquale (iirc) used JL 10ib4's - also out of production.


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