# any info on the old A/D/S PH series?? Difference from from .2 series?



## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

need some small amps, and these are the smallests lol

Is there any down fall to the first series versus the .2 series? heat, torroid problems etc?

I know they are old, but worth the effort in SQ? or mainly just nostalgia sake why folks recommend them?

I noticed that the PH amps need a din to rca connector anyone have any idea where to get those from?


any personal memories or details Id appreciate it

Ive googled and there isnt much info for amps made in 1998 pre dei takeover I guess lol


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

I've got the first gen. They aren't heavy hitters, meaning that they let you know very quickly their limits, but they are some of the best sounding amps I have used (Kicker ZR, Soundstream REF, XTANT4180/3300). I currently use the PH15 and the PQ20 first gen. I don't think there was any change really between the two generations other than color. I have manuals for both the 15 and 15.2 ant work. I can email them to you tomorrow.

They also use the plastic Toshiba T03 output transistors that were very popular for good reason. That's why they lasted so long. The first gen were built around 1990.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

cooool thx for the info....im reading the manuals now.....quick one do you find that your ph15sounds better through the crossover or better with the din to rca? and do they heat up pretty bad (in regards to your comment about them letting you know their limits??) thx for the help


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## Turborusty (Aug 7, 2007)

I could be wrong....but I think he means they just run outta nuts. I had a couple, they sounded good and clean.....but they lacked oomph. It's clean power, just not a lot of it.



Turborusty


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

I've got a PH15 running in 4 channel mode, 2x50 and 2x100.
Best amp I have used, although my list is no where near as good or extensive as durwood's.

It does run a little warm, but nothing too bad.
DIN cables can be found on ebay fairly easily, as can the csi642 adjustable crossover and occasionally the AC502 bass knob.

I'm not sure I would describe a PH15 as small, it is nearly the same size as an ED nine.1, but compared to other 6 channel amps I see what you mean.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

cool info guys REALLY appreciate it


last one ( I know im greedy)


anyone have the dimensions on the ph15?

I read the manual and have google'd it and cant find it anywhere

I know they are 2" tall, but what about length and width?

thanks


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## sheaunien (Feb 16, 2006)

14 1/8" w by 2 3/8" h by 8 1/4" d , manual page 12.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

lol duuh never even saw those dimensions 


thanks


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Turborusty said:


> I could be wrong....but I think he means they just run outta nuts. I had a couple, they sounded good and clean.....but they lacked oomph. It's clean power, just not a lot of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Turborusty


Yep. If you don't push them on the ragged edge, i.e. run them full balls out, then they are pretty good. If the gains are set properly it's not that bad. The 4ohm vs 2 ohm rating is only a difference of 5W per channel so that should give you a clue. The power supply is just limited IMO. But when it clips, it clips hard and you will know it. I kind of like that, it easy to tell when you are pushing it too hard. It's one of the only amps I have seen give a rating for headroom which ~1.2db.

It heats up, but runs cooler than my soundstreams refs and kicker ZR ever did. I think they mated the heatsink surface area with the amount of power perfectly. The soundstreams and kickers you could cook a steak on them. The A/d/s gets warm/hot to the touch, but the fact you still see them everday on ebay has to say something for a car audio amp built over 17 years ago. 

I don't have the out board Xover. I use the din to RCA's and its fine. Never had a problem of noise with these amps. If you can't find the cable on egay, you can easily pick up parts and make your own.

I think retail on the amps back int he day was around 600-700. Now the average going rate is about $150-$300 depending on condition and accesories included and luck of the draw on ebay. Either way, they hold their value at ~those prices and is failry easy to sell if it doesn't suit you.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Just stay away from PH30, PH30.2, PQ40, PQ40.2 and those black ones.
If it's the 20th anniv edition, go for it. (I know you want the older ones)
But check out ampguts, I've sent my ads collections there (some)
Mediocre amps. Really really dissapointed with those PH30, PH30.2, PQ40, PQ40.2 (I was a diehard fan and know the tech there for a while).
They don't make power. Often time, taking the cover off, crossover buttons fell off the pcb board


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

dual700 said:


> Just stay away from PH30, PH30.2, PQ40, PQ40.2 and those black ones.
> If it's the 20th anniv edition, go for it. (I know you want the older ones)
> But check out ampguts, I've sent my ads collections there (some)
> Mediocre amps. Really really dissapointed with those PH30, PH30.2, PQ40, PQ40.2 (I was a diehard fan and know the tech there for a while).
> They don't make power. Often time, taking the cover off, crossover buttons fell off the pcb board


was there any issues with the M series or MX series? I think the M series came after the PQ20/10/8, PH15, PS5 and then the MX came after the M?


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

That is correct. MX are beasts.. But be careful with their crossover jumpers.
many burnt because of those jumpers...


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## Se7en (Mar 28, 2007)

I'd like to add that one of the most musical cars I've ever heard was using the PQ10 (6 of them). I think at the time it was competing expert class.

-Gabe


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

durwood said:


> Yep. If you don't push them on the ragged edge, i.e. run them full balls out, then they are pretty good. If the gains are set properly it's not that bad. The 4ohm vs 2 ohm rating is only a difference of 5W per channel so that should give you a clue. The power supply is just limited IMO. But when it clips, it clips hard and you will know it. I kind of like that, it easy to tell when you are pushing it too hard. It's one of the only amps I have seen give a rating for headroom which ~1.2db.
> 
> It heats up, but runs cooler than my soundstreams refs and kicker ZR ever did. I think they mated the heatsink surface area with the amount of power perfectly. The soundstreams and kickers you could cook a steak on them. The A/d/s gets warm/hot to the touch, but the fact you still see them everday on ebay has to say something for a car audio amp built over 17 years ago.
> 
> ...



and




dogstar said:


> I've got a PH15 running in 4 channel mode, 2x50 and 2x100.
> Best amp I have used, although my list is no where near as good or extensive as durwood's.
> 
> It does run a little warm, but nothing too bad.
> ...





okay really last one

it appears from the manual that to run this amp (ph15) in 4 way mode (100x2+50x2) you are bridging the first pair,a nd last pair of outputs


my question is how does one deal with the INPUTS when using the AC202 (din to 6 RCAS)

do I only send a signal to the FIRST TWO PAIR OF RCAS, or is there some other trick

the manual doesnt quite go into this very well

THANKS for all the help by they way


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## dejo (Jan 3, 2006)

my biggest dislike on them was the din cable. they can be a royal pain.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

newtitan said:


> and
> 
> okay really last one
> 
> ...


I think so.. Can't remember.
I also think I still have a fresh din connector that came with my amp last time.
Let me know if you need it, I have to dig it out


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

yeaaah buddy ill take that din to rca cable if you can find it.please let me know what you want for it.


dual700 said:


> I think so.. Can't remember.
> I also think I still have a fresh din connector that came with my amp last time.
> Let me know if you need it, I have to dig it out


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

newtitan said:


> yeaaah buddy ill take that din to rca cable if you can find it.please let me know what you want for it.


Let me look for it, its yours.
But where are the stuff when you are looking???? 
When you don't need them, they are in your face.. GGGGRRRRRR


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

newtitan said:


> and
> okay really last one
> 
> it appears from the manual that to run this amp (ph15) in 4 way mode (100x2+50x2) you are bridging the first pair,a nd last pair of outputs
> ...



I have my 1+2 channels running the tweeters, so the switch is set to stereo.
3+4 and 5+6 are both set to bridged.

I am running them active, using the tweeter left for amp channel 1, tweeter right for amp channel 2.
Now here is where it gets tricky.

I used two Y adaptors to feed 3+4 and 5+6 from the midbass rcas, left and right respectively.

I'll try to get a pic tomorrow, once you see it, it will make sense instantly.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Newtitan, I want to trade it with your $3K stroller  

Shoot me your addy. Found it. 

WHy do you want to use it instead of RCA? just curious.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

lol, on the stroller 

these darn kiddies are costly lol

cool man Id love to have that cable

as far as I know the ph15 has ONLY a DIN output, so unless you have the crossover unit(which is a pain to use due to some weird resistor based crossover setup kinda like the audiocontrol units I guess)

so you need the DIN to 6 RCA harness

please pm me if you dont mint passing it along

im trying to go cheap for the time being, so it will help for sure


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

newtitan said:


> as far as I know the ph15 has ONLY a DIN output,


Yep


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

newtitan said:


> and
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I just assumed it was like my PQ20 and PS5. On my PQ20 when you bridge it, you set the switch to bridged and only use the left channel RCA for which ever channels you bridge. I haven't tried plugging in anything to the right channel while it's bridged. I'll go check later today, but I'm pretty sure you don't use the right channel RCA for bridged channels.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

dogstar said:


> I have my 1+2 channels running the tweeters, so the switch is set to stereo.
> 3+4 and 5+6 are both set to bridged.
> 
> I am running them active, using the tweeter left for amp channel 1, tweeter right for amp channel 2.
> ...


so are you using the Y cable of the LEFT rca or RIGHT RCA?

just want to confirm what durwood just posted, since he has the newer models


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

Sorry, I grabbed a pic last night and left my camera at a friends house.

On the RCA off the deck mid channels, I used the single end of a Y adaptor on each of the left and right channels.
The split end of the Left Y adaptor went to plugs 3 and 4 on the DIN cable, and the Right side Y adaptor went to channels 5 and 6.

I am not 100% sure this was nessecary, but it's been working great for me for more than a year, so I haven't touched it since.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

okay I got it now


but I can assume you lost the ability to fade and or use time alignment right?


thanks for ALL THE HELP by the way

im off to find some Y splitters


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## CLE (Sep 29, 2007)

Nice amps for the money - I have owned many of them over the years. The only one I would avoid is the PH12. IIRC, this was a BTL amp. At 6 x 20 rms, it just isn't worth using.


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## frito (Sep 11, 2007)

I am trying to put together an inexpesive system so I picked up a PQ10 of ebay for $78 the other day. I now need to find some sensitive components to run off this flea power


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## Boston Acoustics (Sep 27, 2007)

newtitan said:


> Is there any down fall to the first series versus the .2 series? heat, torroid problems etc?
> 
> I know they are old, but worth the effort in SQ? or mainly just nostalgia sake why folks recommend them?
> 
> ...


I worked there for both series 1 & the .2 follow-on. The comments you've gotten so far mostly mirror my own experiences. I'll add the following -

.2 addressed every issue the first generation had, namely not making rated power. The PH15 did 6x~40W not 6x50W & the PQ20 was 4x~70W IIRC. .2 iteration fixed that with a beefier power supply and slightly higher rails. (I believe the output devices stayed the same but I am not 100% sure anymore on that.) Other than a new paint color that was pretty much it. Both generations ran hot and would rather not be tasked with driving subwoofers. On midbass & up however they did really well. The power difference between the two series is neglible and I wouldn't get caught up in numbers. They were very good amps and highly reliable. 

The DIN convention was a real drag early on but it did have definite advantages in regards to what ADS was preaching at the time, multi-way amplification. It did simplify the hook-up architecture in an all active system. The main problem with it was that the original cables ADS supplied were really bad and had numerous problems. Eventually those issues were resolved but the memory lingers. You can make your own high quality inputs with an 8P round DIN plug sourced from Mouser. Round refers to the way the pins are arrayed. They are in a circle whereas a typical Euro-DIN might have them in a U or horseshoe array. Then just solder up an RCA bundle to it and away you go.

Attached is a pic of the PH15 I have. Anyone see anything odd about it?


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## Boston Acoustics (Sep 27, 2007)

CLE said:


> Nice amps for the money - I have owned many of them over the years. The only one I would avoid is the PH12. IIRC, this was a BTL amp. At 6 x 20 rms, it just isn't worth using.


The PQ8 & PH12 can be hot-rodded quite easily. As delivered they have 2 major issues, reversed gain pots that break and a lazy, centuries old opamp front end. Both things can be addressed. They work great as a mid & tweeter amps. How much power do you need there? (They do a legit 44W into 2-ohms too.)


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

Boston Acoustics said:


> Attached is a pic of the PH15 I have. Anyone see anything odd about it?


Odd, other than the fact it doesn't look like it was dragged down the street by a truck? 

Nice silk screening.


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## frito (Sep 11, 2007)

Boston Acoustics said:


> The PQ8 & PH12 can be hot-rodded quite easily. As delivered they have 2 major issues, reversed gain pots that break and a lazy, centuries old opamp front end. Both things can be addressed. They work great as a mid & tweeter amps. How much power do you need there? (They do a legit 44W into 2-ohms too.)


Hot-rodded. How I do love the smell of solder. If you have some direction here I may have to buy one of these so I can play


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## Boston Acoustics (Sep 27, 2007)

dogstar said:


> Odd, other than the fact it doesn't look like it was dragged down the street by a truck?
> 
> Nice silk screening.


Nope.


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## Boston Acoustics (Sep 27, 2007)

frito said:


> Hot-rodded. How I do love the smell of solder. If you have some direction here I may have to buy one of these so I can play


3 basic mods -

There is one opamp inside, an AN6556, 8P DIP -

AN6556 Datasheet

The upgrade I am familiar with replaced the AN6556 w/ an AD712. Now the AD712 is considered somewhat archaic in the race for more slew rate and there are even better ones now. However, even the ancient TL072 is an upgrade over the AN6556 and the AD712 better than it. IIRC, the distortion dropped dramatically with the AD712 opamp change measured via an AP1.

AD712 Datasheet

The gain controls should be swapped to the other side of the PCB. This will require counterboring the heatsink to clear the top of the potentiometers. The way these amps were designed is that you adjust the gain control from its underside and they were easily broken this way. Moving them to the other side fixes that issue. It also orients them to normal rotation vs. reversed.

The last mod is to the output devices. The amps originally used a silicone rubber insulator strip between the transistors and heatsink. This is a great material for mass production but it is not the best at thermal conductivity. Replacing it with good old white grease & mica pads will do a much better job. If you wanted to get even more trick you could use anodized aluminum strip like on the Boston amps in place of the mica. This has even better conductivity.

That's it!


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## frito (Sep 11, 2007)

Cool. It looks like a Burr-Brown OPA-2604 might work also and they are supposed to sound pretty good. I might just pick one up for my tweeters.

So what do you have for my PQ10 to make it sound better?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

newtitan said:


> need some small amps, and these are the smallests
> 
> I know they are old, but worth the effort in SQ? or mainly just nostalgia sake why folks recommend them?
> 
> I noticed that the PH amps need a din to rca connector anyone have any idea where to get those from?


I used a PH15 and PQ20 in one car for 6 years.  I used a PQ20 and two PQ10's in another car for about the same amount of time. I liked them. Nice clean amps that add no noticable character of their own.

They used to call me the a/d/s/ poster boy.

The only reason I got rid of them is because I scored some 20th anniversary P series power plates (P840.2, P4100.2, P2200.2) They delivered more power in a sleek and compact package.

And then like a dumb ass I sold them off a few months ago because I was conviced I was done with car audio. WRONG!!! I have the bug again and my favorite amps are gone... Oh well, Zapco wants my money now .

About the DIN cables. Easy to make. I may even have a few laying around. I know I have the connectors for them. I ordered a ton of them a while back. All a/d/s/ amps used them.

Give me a break on the XS65's and I could set you up .

Ge0


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Any mods info on reducing turn off pop? or is that a lost cause on these and I have to go external relays on the speaker outputs? I'm thinking some sort of ramp up/ramp down circuit on the turn on wire.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about the adjustment POTs. My PQ20 and PH15 adjust through the top of the heat sink in the right direction (left turns the gain down, right turns the gain up). So does my PS5, however the PS5 POT is adjustable through the other side of the PCB.


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## Boston Acoustics (Sep 27, 2007)

durwood said:


> Any mods info on reducing turn off pop? or is that a lost cause on these and I have to go external relays on the speaker outputs? I'm thinking some sort of ramp up/ramp down circuit on the turn on wire.


I don't recall them having issues here. Could be a component has drifted in the mute circuit which is not unlikely for a 20YO design. You'll need a schematic to go further. One question, does it pop with or without your signal connected?



durwood said:


> Also, I'm not sure what you mean about the adjustment POTs. My PQ20 and PH15 adjust through the top of the heat sink in the right direction (left turns the gain down, right turns the gain up). So does my PS5, however the PS5 POT is adjustable through the other side of the PCB.


The PQ8/PH12 are built differently. Look at the picture below. The pots are hard to see because they are the same color as the PCB. There is one immediately to the right of the serial number label. There are 8 on the board & 4 of those are the gain. The main screwdriver input is on the side you see and takes a regular small blade. However, the holes to access it are through the heatsink and PCB and come in underneath it. There is a screwdriver slot there too but it us fragile and the pot is easily broken if you push to hard. For the mod you unsolder the pots from the side of the PCB you see and put them on the back side by lap soldering.


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## Boston Acoustics (Sep 27, 2007)

frito said:


> So what do you have for my PQ10 to make it sound better?


It is pretty much as far as it can go.

The later ones are better than the early ones which ran smokin' hot.

There was a bias mod for them to correct that.


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## frito (Sep 11, 2007)

Were they biased toward class A?


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Boston Acoustics said:


> I don't recall them having issues here. Could be a component has drifted in the mute circuit which is not unlikely for a 20YO design. You'll need a schematic to go further. One question, does it pop with or without your signal connected?


I have a PS5 schematic service manual at home but no PH15/PQ20 schematic. 

They have this slight power down click or small pop with nothing connected, more so on the right channels. The PQ20 I don't notice it as much but two channels are running my midrange and the other two are bridged and running my 10W6V2. And actually, the PQ20 sounded better on my sub than my other soundstream class A6.0 and my Ref300SX I was using previously. 



> The PQ8/PH12 are built differently.


Oops, I missed that you guys were talking about the PQ8 and PH12.:blush:


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## mlp-mx6 (Jun 6, 2011)

Boston Acoustics said:


> Attached is a pic of the PH15 I have. Anyone see anything odd about it?


The "Power Plate System" screening is not on mine.

(Yes, I know this post is old, but I just joined today due to my PH15.)


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## billymonter (Apr 15, 2009)

I have a PH-15 and have often wondered how it rates with the new measurement standard. ADS claims 102 dbs of SN ratio among others. Anybody can give the updated specs?


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## oldno7brand (Mar 15, 2011)

I ran an ADS PH15 and 642CSI for several years in the 90's paired with the Boston Pro series .4 components and I must say the best sound I ever had.
Also had a Blaupunkt head unit and the Proton EQ.

The .2 differed from the original series in that the .2 had 1% tolerance resistors and the darker paint.

To my knowledge they were similar otherwise.
Never heard the .2 up close and personal but I loved my originals and yes the other poster is right they reach limits but sound very clean to the end.

Only thing I heard that touched them was the PPI AM or orginal Art series. and suprisingly an Alpine 3555. I have owned PPI Powerclass for years now but always loved my PH 15.... wish they made a revised version.

The 850 MX also sounded awesome from what I rememeber


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## ikataco (Sep 26, 2011)

durwood said:


> I've got the first gen...I have manuals for both the 15 and 15.2 ant work. I can email them to you tomorrow.
> 
> They also use the plastic Toshiba T03 output transistors that were very popular for good reason. That's why they lasted so long. The first gen were built around 1990.


I could use a PH15 manual as well. I'm about pull it out of the closet to install. 

Anyone run 3-way active with a PH15?


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

I just installed a PQ10 in my system running my 3 inch mids and tweeters. Plenty of power for these drivers, sounds great.


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## billymonter (Apr 15, 2009)

mlp-mx6 said:


> The "Power Plate System" screening is not on mine.
> 
> (Yes, I know this post is old, but I just joined today due to my PH15.)


The power plate screen is not on mine either AND the fins are tapered. I believe I have the first gen. And have manual and schematic.


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## Gglennlewis (May 9, 2021)

dual700 said:


> Let me look for it, its yours.
> But where are the stuff when you are looking????
> When you don't need them, they are in your face.. GGGGRRRRRR


As an installer from way back (70s) and I dealt with many employee's at ADS there were more problems with installer's than anything. Installer's today have more knowledge generally. You must remember that the 2 High end car audio companies were ADS and Nakamichi. The combo of powered ADS speakers with Nakamichi Cassette was a dream back then. Unfortunately ADS was sold to an Alarm company who I am sure you know who. More problems occurred from high guage power wire than anything.....


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