# Getting that Fast Heavy Kick & Punch Mid Bass



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Getting everything together for my 08 f150 CrewCab install and want that chest pounding Kick in the Chest Mid-Bass. Not sure if I need a couple 8's etc...but here is what I have got so far.

Pioneer 2300Nex
SB Acoustics 6.5's
SB Acoustics Tweets
(2) Sundown SD-3 10's
Rockford 1500-BDCP
NVX-800.4 (Prob Going to Sell)
Helix DSP

Haven't planned on any "rear fill" for the back doors so as to not screw with my front stage but I may need to reverse coarse on that?
What are some suggestions related to taking my mid bass to another level?


----------



## dsw1204 (Mar 23, 2015)

To get the most out of whatever mid-bass drivers your get, make sure you properly deaden your doors. If you don't do this, you will not get the best performance out of the drivers you do choose.


----------



## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

agreed, the sad truth is often you need to go three way so you can dedicate a brutal midbass vs one that has to play midrange too. very few midbasses that will really deliver that gut feel can also do midrange well. its good that you went sb tweets especially if you go for the large 29 models because the lower you can cross the more your tuning options expand. it also helps that you have more power than you need on the subs so can cross higher and potentially dial in a pretty aggressive sound without damage.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Lycancatt said:


> agreed, the sad truth is often you need to go three way so you can dedicate a brutal midbass vs one that has to play midrange too. very few midbasses that will really deliver that gut feel can also do midrange well. its good that you went sb tweets especially if you go for the large 29 models because the lower you can cross the more your tuning options expand. it also helps that you have more power than you need on the subs so can cross higher and potentially dial in a pretty aggressive sound without damage.


I'm with you kinda. Are you suggesting different 6.5's for the SB 29's amd/or adding 8's?


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Gump_Runner said:


> I'm with you kinda. Are you suggesting different 6.5's for the SB 29's amd/or adding 8's?


Your driver selection is good, those tweets and midwoofers pair well together and are great for the price. I wouldn't be concerned. However, your install is going to really dictate how impressive of midbass you end up with. You can brute force the midbass by going with some 8's in the front, but that still doesn't remove the need for a good installation.

You'll want to seal up the doors as well as possible otherwise you're kind of pissing in the wind. Also you'll want to try to prevent phase cancellation between your mids and your subwoofer which you'll be able to handle in your tune.


----------



## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

Gump_Runner said:


> I'm with you kinda. Are you suggesting different 6.5's for the SB 29's amd/or adding 8's?


if you have a helix dsp, do a 3 way active front with 4 inch in the A pillar or 6.5 mid in the kick panel with an 8, 10 or even a 12 inch dedicated midbass drivers in the door fully acoustically treated(sealed off gaps with sheet metal, deadened with CLD, treated rear wave, MLV and proper baffles and CCF gaskets to prevent rattle) with at least 500+ watts to each midbass driver. This is of course for absolute gut wrenching midbass that can keep up with a 155+ db subwoofer stage and when you turn off your subs, and lower your high pass, you still feel like you have loud subs going on and can choke most normal people making them tap out with your door's bass/midbass output.


----------



## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

thats just me tho, T'm a midbass junkie, my metal music's double bass pedal isnt piercing my lungs making me cough at each hit, it doesnt satisfy me.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Many ways midbass is quantified, but "fast, heavy kick & punch" can be achieved by tune with the extreme ends depending upon how capable your drivers are. SB midwoofers are all lower Q with some variance. Low Q mids tend to be "snappy", rolling off no lower than 80hz which is a good start. The subs add to that if the response is dialed in just right including phase so getting it to sound "fast" is a matter of making sure you're getting the subs to play their upper range cleanly. IE, bottom end bloat won't be good for the effect. 

A 3-way allows for more output, yes, but isn't totally necessary to get that response. Get the blend & response right, then you'll have it regardless of 2 or 3 way.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Don't overlook how important the sub is for this. Letting the subs move most of the air, and reinforcing that with strong midbass, and even tweeters will help a lot. If you expect the midbass drivers to hit you in the chest you'll be disappointed, but if you tune the system well, and all drivers are time aligned, then you'll get that kick in the chest. The subs will move the most air to give the tactile feeling, and the midbass will anchor most of the sound, the tweeters will cover the upper harmonics. If the system is balanced and TA'd well you can achieve this affect without worrying too much about getting every last drop of performance from a midbass speaker.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

gijoe said:


> Don't overlook how important the sub is for this. Letting the subs move most of the air, and reinforcing that with strong midbass, and even tweeters will help a lot. If you expect the midbass drivers to hit you in the chest you'll be disappointed, but if you tune the system well, and all drivers are time aligned, then you'll get that kick in the chest. The subs will move the most air to give the tactile feeling, and the midbass will anchor most of the sound, the tweeters will cover the upper harmonics. If the system is balanced and TA'd well you can achieve this affect without worrying too much about getting every last drop of performance from a midbass speaker.


Very well said.


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

I want to also highlight what gijoe said on the importance of TA in midbass. I have a feeling that a lot of people have underwhelming midbass due to bad TA causing cancellation.


----------



## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

gijoe said:


> Don't overlook how important the sub is for this. Letting the subs move most of the air, and reinforcing that with strong midbass, and even tweeters will help a lot. If you expect the midbass drivers to hit you in the chest you'll be disappointed, but if you tune the system well, and all drivers are time aligned, then you'll get that kick in the chest. The subs will move the most air to give the tactile feeling, and the midbass will anchor most of the sound, the tweeters will cover the upper harmonics. If the system is balanced and TA'd well you can achieve this affect without worrying too much about getting every last drop of performance from a midbass speaker.


And This^^^!!!

And FWIW, the 10’s in my doors are Midbass, not subs. 
And the car is for sale


----------



## stills_* (Mar 5, 2018)

I’ve used higher than “ normal” sub crossover points with good sucess in smaller vehicles. How high will those sundowns play?


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

stills_* said:


> I’ve used higher than “ normal” sub crossover points with good sucess in smaller vehicles. How high will those sundowns play?


My feeling is that you should cross your subs as high as you can without being able to hear the location of the bass, while still achieving a good midbass blend. That requires screwing with crossover frequencies, slopes, and TA.


----------



## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

What kinda sub/mb overlap are we talking about? And how would one verify with rew when you got the overlap and timing right.?spl?


----------



## stills_* (Mar 5, 2018)

I’ve used 100-150hz /12db in my ranger for years. A 10” &6’s I’ve got midbass for days. Of course my cab is the size of a phone booth.


----------



## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

The best luck I've had with midbass is doing a 3-way front, as has been said, along with allowing the sub to play from about 80hz down. The S-10 I built used a 63hz -24db filter between the ported 12" midbass and the subs. I turned the subs off at one point just to see where the bulk of the "bass" was coming from, and it was almost all midbass. Deaden your area, port if you can (I don't really recommend sealed as it rolls off pretty hard) or install in the doors or vented kicks. I prefer pro audio drivers which have a unique sound characteristic, but they aren't required for solid midbass. Fit the biggest driver you can, with decent sensitivity and excursion, and run them from about 80-315 (if you're able to do a dedicated midrange), sit back and enjoy.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

There's a lot to digest here. It has the feeling of my first day in Grad school.


----------



## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

I agree with Mikey; lotsa cone area and vented enclosures. You want the octave between 60-120hz to be as loud as possible.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Gump_Runner said:


> There's a lot to digest here. It has the feeling of my first day in Grad school.


 Like I've stated, many different ways it is quantified, but the main common theme you see in all is the tune.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

The difference between a 2 way setup with a 6.5 mid trying to handle double duty vs a 3 way active with a dedicated fully crossed over midbass assuming both are properly done is night and day if you actually listen to your music somewhat loud. tune and install only gets you so far, there's driver limitations and power handling limitations forcing a driver to do multiple jobs vs delegating specialized drivers to do the things they were built for meanwhile literally tripling the amount of power you can apply to the system does a lot for output. Literally 1 inch voice coil vs 1 inch voice coil + 2-3 inch voice coil. You run into severe output limitation issues with a 2 way setup assuming you have a half way loud sub setup aka over 140db which should be possible with those sundown SDs in a proper ported/vehicle loading and power.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I have not found that to be totally true. There's little reason or advantage in using lower tier drivers in a 2-way like you can get away with in a 3-way. Not to say that you should have to, but you would be best served by using better. 

Better power response by using more drivers installed in optimal locations, but that doesn't mean a 2-way can't get loud enough or just as loud if the right drivers are chosen.


----------



## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

mikey7182 said:


> The best luck I've had with midbass is doing a 3-way front, as has been said, along with allowing the sub to play from about 80hz down. The S-10 I built used a 63hz -24db filter between the ported 12" midbass and the subs. I turned the subs off at one point just to see where the bulk of the "bass" was coming from, and it was almost all midbass. Deaden your area, port if you can (I don't really recommend sealed as it rolls off pretty hard) or install in the doors or vented kicks. I prefer pro audio drivers which have a unique sound characteristic, but they aren't required for solid midbass. Fit the biggest driver you can, with decent sensitivity and excursion, and run them from about 80-315 (if you're able to do a dedicated midrange), sit back and enjoy. <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />


Yeah but that was with the sickest drivers ever. Loved the thought of that set up. Wished I could have heard


----------

