# 2003 4Runner



## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

My Runner came from the factory with the 10 speaker JBL Synthesis sound system, but was outdated and the NAV wasn't even close to what I could achieve even with my phone  I decided to pull it all out and start over. 

My goal was a good sounding system that I didn't want to go overboard with in terms of high dollar equipment while using a simple single sub install with just the OEM locations for the mids & highs. I started the install by swapping out the HU with a Kenwood DDX616. I settled on that due to price and not really needing all the bells and whistles like NAV, SAT, or stuff like that, but still having the capability later if I changed my mind. Just really wanted a nice touch screen that would look like it belonged in the OEM dash along with something I could plug a flash drive into and plug in AUX to the front to play my Pandora through my phone on occasion.










After the HU, I was unsure of what remaining components I wanted, but while I decided, I knew I wanted to go through and try to deaden as much as I could within a small budget. Now...I know Fatmat is not the optimal deadener to use, but it fit the budget and did do a noticably good job in quieting the whole vehicle. I also understand that I may not have "needed" to cover the sheetmetal 100%, I had 100 sq.ft. so I decided to anyways. I also covered the back of the sizable interior trim pieces, and whether this helps or not...who really cares, I did it anyway  I also used a lot of jute where I could and stuffed poly fill into every crack, hole, and void that I could get to behind interior sheet metal.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

cont...


































A couple weeks ago, I built my sub enclosure. I went with one of the new Alpine Type R 8" DVC's (SWR-843). The enclosure was designed for me by Pete at PWK Designs and I built it just last week. While it seemed a bit large vs. what Alpine says to use for a vented enclosure, this thing sounds ridiculous. I will admit that I haven't heard nearly the amount of different systems as most on here have, but I know for sure I have never heard one 8" sub hit this hard and dip this low on roughly 200 watts (old Lanzar Vibe 4 channel using rear channels to each sub coil). I have already convinced several people that I had either a pair of 10's or as even one person thought...a pair of 12's (even though they are not an audiophile and could probably not tell the difference between a couple 10's and couple 12's) 


































I also just installed some midbass in the rear doors. I chose to use the Peerless SLS 6.5" after seeing how much people raved about them. I had to make an adapter plate using 3/4" MDF to mount them into the OEM location securely. I threw a coat of rust primer and satin clear over them since they may see some moisture inside the door.


















All that I have left to purchase is the amps and front stage. I am planning on installing PPI PC3.65C 3 way components in the front doors and PPI P1000.1 & P900.4 Phantom amps. The small footprint of the amps should allow me to use the newly freed up space in the passenger rear quarter panel to mount them up nice (this is where the OEM plastic sub enclosure was located).

I'm looking forward to the upcoming meet and greet that Buzzman put together for the Phoenix crowd on March 17th. I need to pick some brains to dial in the SLS midbass and placement of the front stage.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Nice woodworking skills.

Jay


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## hybridamp (Oct 10, 2006)

JayinMI said:


> Nice woodworking skills.


What he said indeed! Very clean, seeing those Peerless SLS 6.5 installed makes me really want to try a pair.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Quick question on the door woofers before I go putting the panels back on.

What's everyones take on installing some sort of foam, composite, or other type of material inside the door directly behind the woofer? Seems like I've heard something about it helping with waves inside the door making it sound cleaner??


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## renkaliko (Feb 3, 2012)

Nice! Any updates on the install? I just replaced my head unit in my 03 4Runner Limited.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Not much of an update, but something else crossed off my list, so it's a start.

After being without front door panels for quite some time while I stewed over what components to install, I finally got them in.

I did alot of research on components and after narrowing it down to several different brands/sets that ranged from about $300 up to $500, I settled on a set not even in that list. I found great reviews on these components and as inexpensive as they are...decided to just go for it. Ironically enough, the OEM JBL Synthesis speakers have been replaced with JBL  The MS-62C 6.5" components.

Made a bracket out of acetal plastic for the tweeter, and a 3/4" MDF baffle board/adapter to fit the 6.5". The area directly behind the woofer received a square of Ensolite acoustical barrier from RAAM Audio to help break up the waves coming off the rear of the woofer. I also put some over the top of the deadener where the larger holes were in the door and I used it as a gasket material between the MDF baffle and the door sheetmetal.

Sounds Incredible. Right now they are being fed about 80 watts per door, but will see closer to 100-120 when I get my new 4 channel amp later.

Sorry, the pic with the woofer came out a bit fuzzy


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## chevyrider96 (Mar 5, 2010)

Nice job man!


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## chevyrider96 (Mar 5, 2010)

You can put some pink foam board behind it to help deaden and clean up sound


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## Paul1217 (Aug 12, 2007)

I love it when photographers do a build. The pics always look so nice


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## chevyrider96 (Mar 5, 2010)

Pics do look nice. I want see mire


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here's the next step. I have another Type-R 8" on the way and I'm going to install it along with the other in the enclosure I already have. I've heard two of them in that airspace are very nice. I've also modeled it and adding the second shows nothing but positives and really the only negative is that I will lose about 2db at the tuning frequency (33hz) keeping the same vent. I don't think this will be a big deal though since I gain db starting at just 38hz and the graph just rises from there.

This is going to act as a test so that I know whether I really like two of them in that airspace on the power I have. With that knowledge, I'm going to build a fiberglass enclosure that will take up the space in the rear passenger quarter where the OEM enclosure used to be. It will have to extend out further than the quarter panel though to get the airspace needed for the two 8's. The OEM enclosure is roughly .7 cf and it fit behind the interior plastic cladding, so I don't think I'll have a problem getting the space needed. Not to mention, there was a small area on the enclosure that was left out for the OEM amp to reside which will now be part of the interior space to add a touch more.

I still have the OEM enclosure, so I figured it would be perfect to use as a mold to lay the fiberglass on to get the rear half since JBL/Toyota did the work to get it to conform to the outer sheetmetal. I've flanged all the way around the enclosure with thick cardboard on the same planes as the mounting ears so that I can use the original mount points on the quarter panel sheetmetal. Yes.....since the pictures, I have blue tape on the flange too 

This will be my first fiberglass project EVER, but I think I've done enough research to get by. I've got all my supplies, so hopefully I can get started laying the glass this week or weekend. Wish me luck!

Anyone with any tips, feel free to comment.


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## renkaliko (Feb 3, 2012)

Nice!!


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## buchaja (Nov 10, 2007)

You sir, are an inspiration to me! Very nice work there. 

Thanks for the great photos.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Hmm, been a while since the last update. Not much to show that's new. I do have plans to update/upgrade my front stage to a 3 way active using Audible Physics meaning I will have some type of fiberglass project for the front doors and/or a-pillars. To go along with the front update, I'll be getting new amps & a DSP (probably Mosconi, but not yet set in stone).

I finally started glassing the new sub enclosure (you may have seen my other thread in Fab on the headache I was having). I added another layer to it once it finally let loose of the mold. This weekend I did a test fit and initial edge trim while holding my breath as to whether it would truly fit after all the issues and work into the mold.

It fits! Now I just have to start adding additional layers to stiffen it up and also strengthen the mount tabs. I'm not too worried about adding a bunch of support to the tabs/flanged spots yet, I can do that once I start the front baffle and tie them in together.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Good job. I'm driving a 2006 Limited now so this is great to see.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

did u seriously hack up your pwk enclosure to add another sub?

That totally throws off the whole design...


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

edzyy said:


> did u seriously hack up your pwk enclosure to add another sub?
> 
> That totally throws off the whole design...


Sure did...though I'm not sure adding one hole constitutes "hacked". I know it throws off "his" design...but based on what others had run those subs in... the pair works great in the unchanged enclosure design. After all...it's just a box. If for some reason I want to go back to a wood enclosure...I'll just build another.


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## Sidey (Oct 20, 2009)

Very clean install, well done.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

Offroader5 said:


> Sure did...though I'm not sure adding one hole constitutes "hacked". I know it throws off "his" design...but based on what others had run those subs in... the pair works great in the unchanged enclosure design. After all...it's just a box. If for some reason I want to go back to a wood enclosure...I'll just build another.


Understandable. 

Just seems weird to pay for a design and then alter it.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I received a Funkin Audio SX380 15" a while ago from Ant and after this weekends get-together, I stopped procrastinating and wondering about different options and just decided to build an enclosure. Based on discussions with others (since the optimal suggestions came out all wacky when plugged into several programs), I decided I'd just give 'er a go in 2 cubes sealed. I threw together a quick 3/4" MDF box and wired it up.

As you can read above, right now I have a pair of Alpine Type-R 8" in dual 4 variety, resting in 1.4 cubes vented @ 33hz powered from a PPI Phantom 1000.1 supplying right around 1000 watts to the pair in 1 ohm. Even though it is just a tad "boomy", it is very loud for two 8's and sounds very nice. In my rebuild, I will be steering more towards SQ, so that was one reason I wanted to try sealed for the 15...not to mention, I think it would have needed almost 3 cubes or more if I had wanted to go vented.

Powering the 15 with the same PPI amp, it will only see around 700 since the 15 is a dual 4 setup netting only 2 ohms. I immediately figured I'd loose a good bit of output switching to sealed on less power...but I realized I was also gaining cone area, so I hoped it would work out.

Listening to tracks that I know well with the other setup, I was pleasantly surprised. The small amount of "boomyness" is gone so everything seems cleaner. I haven't given it any real volume yet since I was just in the back yard plus I didn't want to stress it too much till the glue dries. I'll give it a good couple weeks of "try-outs" and see what I think. Early opinion on it is that I believe I'll be very happy with one 15 sealed. The output seems fine even at the lower volume of todays test. If all goes well and it truly is something I want to stick with, then I will plan on building the glass enclosure to fit the 15 instead of the 8's.

I'll get some pictures posted when I take a couple. Even though it's just a 15 in a simple cube box...I know how everyone likes pictures


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

A bit of an update...or should I say a LONG winded update since I like to explain everything in detail 

First, I picked up a new 15. Went with the Dayton Reference HO after reading many great reviews and some suggestions from the forum. I installed it into the 2 cube sealed box I had built for the Funkin just to see if it liked that volume. Turns out it works pretty good, but I will be going a tad smaller to about 1.75 cubes gross when all said and done. Obviously it plays a bit softer since the Funkin was a dual 4 ohm, and the Dayton is only a single. Power dropped from 725+ to 580+ so maybe 1-2db. 


Second, I went out this morning and did a little midbass testing. I removed the JBL 6.5 from one of my front doors and haphazardly installed a Intimid8r in its place. Good news is that I could fit these 8's in my stock locations very easily (sweet). BUT, I have been dreading putting these in my doors just due to the added resonance and rattles I'd need to address. I already have slight issues with the 6.5's and they only play down to 85-90hz right now.

The test was done on the same power that the JBL's were getting from the PPI 900.4 (about 100-145)...so I had to keep that in mind since the Intimid8rs will be getting bridged power from the same amp netting closer to 400+ each, plus they are much more efficient than the JBL's. They actually sounded very nice with the lower power. One thing I did notice though as they played from the door (in which they are aimed directly across the cabin), when I shifted my head downward and forward near the center console, they sounded much better. So, from this I can tell they will need to be much closer to on axis than I thought. This got me thinking about the kicks 

I then pulled it from the drivers door and set it in the drivers kick area with a towel wrapped around it loosely enough so the basket wasn't blocked at the rear and it could breathe. By the time I got it set near where it would have to reside, it was roughly 20-25 degrees off axis (to the drivers position). This sounded SO MUCH better.

So......bottom line is I think I'm going to be building some kicks.

My equipment list for the front includes the Intimid8rs along with the Audible Physics/Melodic Acoustic NzA Duo set. With this equipment in mind, what I believe I want to do is install the Intimid8rs in the kicks, the Arian 6.5 in the OEM front door location, and the NZ3/AT combo either in the A-pillar or possibly the top of the kick. We'll see were they like it better. I have a pair of PPI 900.4's where one will be bridged for the Intimid8rs, and the other will be run 4 channel for the Arians & NZ3/AT combo.

Hmm, I have a lot of work ahead of me


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Offroader5 said:


> A bit of an update...or should I say a LONG winded update since I like to explain everything in detail
> 
> First, I picked up a new 15. Went with the Dayton Reference HO after reading many great reviews and some suggestions from the forum. I installed it into the 2 cube sealed box I had built for the Funkin just to see if it liked that volume. Turns out it works pretty good, but I will be going a tad smaller to about 1.75 cubes gross when all said and done. Obviously it plays a bit softer since the Funkin was a dual 4 ohm, and the Dayton is only a single. Power dropped from 725+ to 580+ so maybe 1-2db.
> 
> ...


NZ3s, Arians, AND Intims??? Any idea what your crossover points will be?


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## ross.cottrill (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks for the Info..my question is,are you going to vent or seal the kicks for the intomid8rs?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> NZ3s, Arians, AND Intims??? Any idea what your crossover points will be?


I know, it almost seems redundant to use both the Arian and the NZ3. Here's the reasoning: Whether I install the Arian or not, due to bridging one 900.4 to feed the 8's, I will still have another 900.4 in 4 channel to run the NZ/AT combo, leaving 2 channels unused. Either way I will need both amps in the vehicle going this route. Might as well use the channels if they are there. I was going to use those channels for rear door midbass and experiment with that...but it seems more logical to just install the Arian in the front and enhance my front stage.

I actually have multiple options. I have the two 900.4's so if I wanted to bridge one for the 8's and leave the other unbridged for the NZ3/AT & Arian, I can. Or, I could be very happy with a single 900.4 feeding both the 8's and NZ3/AT combo and leave out the Arian & 2nd 900.4. I will certainly be doing some experimentation with the two options. But, I tend to think the 8's would be happier with more power on tap than the single 900.4 can provide unbridged.

As far as crossover frequencies, if I use the Arian, the NZ3 won't need to play down to the Intimid8rs. Even though they CAN play down to 250-300, if the Arian instead picks up above the 8's, the NZ3 could be cut much higher to more blend with the upper end of the Arian.

Experimentation will be the tell all. I'm still waiting on my DSP, it's taking forever to arrive 



ross.cottrill said:


> Thanks for the Info..my question is,are you going to vent or seal the kicks for the intomid8rs?


Well, I did a bit more fooling around this morning. I pulled off the kick cover and realized that there is a lot of wires, and OEM crap behind it. This means I can't push the 8 back into the panel quite as far as I wanted. I can still get the job done, but now I worry that I won't have enough airspace for them since they are meant for IB.

Good thing though is that there is a bit of room above where the kick will be built (going behind the dash). I may be able to get away with running some of the kick up into the dash area...or at a minimum be able to vent them upward to that space.

The main thing is that I believe (fingers crossed) that I can keep my ebrake :idea2: Maybe...we'll see.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here are some pics of what I have to work with:


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

I had my nz3s on my dash crossed over at 300 and they sounded pretty good but then I dropped them to 250 they really brought my stage up and sound great. If you use the Intims you could bandpass them from 50/63-200/250 and your front stage should sound amazing.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I think you might be asking for trouble trying to get all the drivers in phase and time aligned (essentially a 5way stage). Also, once you are running your midbasses only below ~300Hz or so, the sound will be much more omni-directional than when you just threw them in place of the JBL mids (which I'm guessing ran up into the 2-4kHz region). So aiming the Intimd8rs won't be an issue then. If you don't have any issues with bad rattles, etc in your doors, I'd keep them there since they fit and alleviate the headaches of relocating all those wires and losing the dead pedal. Thats just my 2 cents though! Install looking great!


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ecbmxer said:


> I think you might be asking for trouble trying to get all the drivers in phase and time aligned (essentially a 5way stage). Also, once you are running your midbasses only below ~300Hz or so, the sound will be much more omni-directional than when you just threw them in place of the JBL mids (which I'm guessing ran up into the 2-4kHz region). So aiming the Intimd8rs won't be an issue then. If you don't have any issues with bad rattles, etc in your doors, I'd keep them there since they fit and alleviate the headaches of relocating all those wires and losing the dead pedal. Thats just my 2 cents though! Install looking great!


It really would still be a 3 way front since the NZ3's and AT tweeter/transducer are still considered a single channel (the AT is just for "ambiance" and very high freq. & connects in-line with the NZ3), but I do see what you're saying. I was a bit worried about the 8's in the kicks and the 6.5 in the door and the way they're pointing almost toward each other wondering if this would affect phase.

I think I'm going to give the 8's a try in the doors and just redo the door treatments. I used a cheaper deadener (Fatmat) and no MLV...so I think I have quite a bit of upgrading I can do which should help the resonance. Also, I only sheeted over the large holes in the door with 2 layers of deadener. I could make the whole structure more rigid by covering them with something more solid like sheetmetal or sheet plastic like HDPE or similar.

Guess it's time to activate the rear door speakers (Peerless 6.5's) so I have something to listen to while I have my front doors torn apart


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Getting the baffles done. Two 1/2" pieces of MDF sandwiched to get the 1" I needed to get the magnet just far enough away from the window regulator when the window is down.

Before & after:


Inserts:


Intimid8r right at home:


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Don't forget the truck bed liner for waterproofing


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Was actually thinking of testing out PlastiDip on a small scrap piece and see if it adheres well enough to the MDF. I also have some Rustoleum undercoating I could spray them with.


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## Serieus (May 27, 2011)

Offroader5 said:


> Was actually thinking of testing out PlastiDip on a small scrap piece and see if it adheres well enough to the MDF. I also have some Rustoleum undercoating I could spray them with.


funny, i was also planning to give plastidip a shot but instead decided to go with HDPE baffles. i'm interested to know how the plastidip works, though


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Have the 8's installed now. Really more of a test fit and first sound impression. I still need to weatherseal the baffles, add more deadener, some CCF, MLV, and figure out what I want to use to decouple the baffle from the door. I'm trying the standard install under the door panel first. I may have to revisit the install and cut away the panel and expose the midbass. Time will tell once I get the panel back on after the additional acoustic treatments.

I test sprayed a piece of MDF with PlastiDip and where it did seem to seal it fairly well, it doesn't do well on the cut edges. Just soaks right in and doesn't really skin up smooth. I think it would be alright as far as weather sealing, but you'd need to do several coats. Didn't want to seem to come off easily, so that is a plus. I also tested the Rustoleum spray on undercoating I had. Seems to seal up the MDF much better even on the cut edges. I think I'm going to use it for the baffles.


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## TheBetterMethod (Sep 19, 2012)

Really nice looking baffles!


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

A bit of an update. It sounds like crap 

I temporarily mounted the NZ3's to the upper area of the door where the OEM tweeters were. This aims them almost right across the cabin and up about 10 degrees (roughly 6" above the opposite door panel, and about 6" rearward of the side mirror)...so, right at the opposite window :surprised: They have some very harsh tones at certain frequencies...sometimes to the point of really annoying the ears. Almost a ringing. Now, I understand these are amazing drivers...so i know it's either in the aiming or the xover settings.

Since I haven't received my 6to8 yet , I am only using the xovers on the 900.4 and unable to EQ. Since the amp only has the pot adjustment, I'm not sure exactly where they are cut, but the HU high pass is set at 220hz (the highest setting available)

The 8's are bandpassed using the 900.4 and again not knowing the exact freq., I used the HU to high pass them at 60hz. The HU does not have bandpassing ability, so the amp is doing the low pass. I just used some vocals and sines to roughly set the low pass around 300-400. Of course they don't have their punch since the door is sealed up about as much as a screen door right now. When I first connected them, they seemed odd sounding and with a test CD, I guess they were out of phase. Not sure why that would change from one door woofer to the next, but the wiring was correct. This may change once the door panel is back on and everything is sealed up?

There seems to be a large gap in sound like there should be a "middle" driver between the 8" & 3". Not sure why since they should be able to the job themselves. I have REW and the equipment to see what frequencies are causing issues, but I still need to fool around with this setup and learn how to use it.

I was going to try moving the NZ's down off the door to the kick and much more on axis..maybe point them at the dome light.

On a side note, I have a bunch of CLD tiles, MLV and CCF on the way to retreat these front doors in an effort to tame these 8's. Hopefully once I get that done and the panels back on, much of this will fix itself.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

John if you want more accurate settings you can use your mic and REW sweeps to determine the xo settings. Set the mic 4 or 5 inches infront of the center of the speakers. Then do sweeps and adjust the xo pots. If you need I am off today and can come over and use mine and or help you set up your laptop for this and future testing.

As for the phase issue this is the same for me with my 8's. If I let them play up into the vocal range then they seem to need to be set in phase to one another. But playing just midbass they need to be out of phase. Not sure whay that is but it is what I am experiencing too.

Also seal those doors up. You will gain serious amounts of midbass. 

Do try the NZ's in the kickss for sure. Perhaps leave the ambiance tweet up top. Not sure though if you can have the ambiance tweet that far away from the mid but give it a try. I moved my mr's down to my kicks but I left my tweets up in the pillars. The kicks have vastly improved my staging. I used to be plauged by rainbowing. Now I have a very nice flat stage and no more constant pull to the right pillar. I believe the pull to the right pillar was due to those speakers being more on axis then the other side. EQ never seemed to be able to over come this.


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## nfrazier (Apr 14, 2011)

looking good dude. keep it up.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Thats unfortunate. Don't worry too much about it yet. If you have them mounted nicely, I would wait until you can dial in the xovers and EQ before trying a whole new location. Those things should perform pretty well off axis like most of the other AP wideband drivers.


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## ecobass (Oct 15, 2012)

Good job on everything, specially those plastic speaker adapters. You should make a pair for my Fj cruiser with the intimod8r mid woofer.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

07azhhr said:


> John if you want more accurate settings you can use your mic and REW sweeps to determine the xo settings. Set the mic 4 or 5 inches infront of the center of the speakers. Then do sweeps and adjust the xo pots. If you need I am off today and can come over and use mine and or help you set up your laptop for this and future testing.
> 
> As for the phase issue this is the same for me with my 8's. If I let them play up into the vocal range then they seem to need to be set in phase to one another. But playing just midbass they need to be out of phase. Not sure whay that is but it is what I am experiencing too.
> 
> ...


Hmm, so are you saying run a sweep at a specific frequency (my target) while adjusting the pot until I get to the point of not hearing it through whichever speaker I'm testing?

Won't really do much good to tune yet since I need to retreat the doors and get the panels back on to seal them up. The supplies should be here first of next week to do that. I'm going to shift the NZ's down to the kicks this afternoon when I get home and see if anything changes. The ringing frequencies were so annoying...I'll know right away if moving them made any difference.

Man, I wish this damn 6to8 would get here :mean: Just feels like this is all in vein since it will all change with that installed.



ecbmxer said:


> Thats unfortunate. Don't worry too much about it yet. If you have them mounted nicely, I would wait until you can dial in the xovers and EQ before trying a whole new location. Those things should perform pretty well off axis like most of the other AP wideband drivers.


I'm not too discouraged yet. I guess I just expected the high end componants and active setup to sound at least as good as the passive JBL's I pulled out. I realize though that it'll take some tuning. I'm more concerned about getting the placement right.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I am saying when you use the sweeps you will be able to see the xo point on the plot. You can use sweeps off a cd for this as all you need to see is where the point of drop off is. It should show as a 3db down point at the xo point and continue down from there. The sweep function of REW ca be set to only provide a small range of frequencies and can be veryied at will. You can make a few for a cd if you rather. Just pull the rca's for the speakers not being tested and have the mic near the center of the driver that you are testing so that you get the most accurate results. Tuning is done differently then this and can come at a later time for sure.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ecobass said:


> Good job on everything, specially those plastic speaker adapters. You should make a pair for my Fj cruiser with the intimod8r mid woofer.


Actually, they are MDF...not plastic.

I put enough time into the ones for myself...don't want to do it more than I have to  That makes 6 of those type baffles I've had to make for the Runner. The tools I used are not be what you'd call the "preferred" ones to use. All done with a jigsaw and a bench top drill press. The corner pockets alone were done with a small router bit meant for a Dremel mounted in my drill press...removing a thin layer at a time so as to not overwork the bit.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Yesterday I experimented with the NZ3's down near the kicks pointing upward and inward to about the center of the headliner maybe 8-10 inches behind the front seat headrests.

Way better! Got rid of almost all of the ringing/annoying frequencies. They must have been coming from the reflections off the side windows and windshield the way they were aimed before. Also, it raised the stage to about right below the top of the dash and I had a decent center even without the DSP installed yet.

Looking very promising. May fabricate some quick baffles that I can mount temporarily to the kicks, but still be somewhat sturdy. I need to figure out a way to do it though where I can adjust the angles slightly without fussing with it too much. Any ideas????


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here's my idea for a temp mount to get the aiming set. I'm a photo guy, so this came to mind right off the bat. Mini ball head used for mounting cameras to a tripod (or anything else for that matter).










Figure I can mount the base to a piece of wood that is whatever shape it needs to be to secure it to the kick area...then the 1/4-20 bolt would attach the assembly to the mid pod. I found that a 3" ABS pipe cap is the perfect size to fit the 3" mid inside. Hoping the ball socket clamping force is enough to handle the weight of the pod/mid assembly. Should allow for plenty of adjustment though.

Plus, you can find them for as little as $4 on Amazon. Might try and find it local though since shipping may be a deal breaker. And, if I spend a bit more ($12-$15) I can get a much better built version and it won't be wasted money since I can use it afterwards for my camera gear.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Like many already mentioned great work dude, wanna come to Denver and do my 2012?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Man in the big Brown truck brought me a package yesterday from Sound Deadener Showdown :surprised: A box of CLD tiles, a sizeable roll of MLV, and some butyl rope (going to use the butyl as the decoupler behind the baffle). Glad I didn't opt for a 2 lb. MLV from some other place...this 1 lb. is heavy enough as it is. I realize it's 1 lb/ft in weight, but until you actually handle it and feel how much it weighs...you have no clue.

I ordered my CCF from Raam Audio since I like the peel and stick. Don at SDS did send a sample of his CCF along with the rest of my stuff. It's a very nice foam and much denser than the peel and stick Ensolite. Hope I don't regret not getting the foam from SDS. I have enough of the Ensolite though, I should easily be able to double up the layers.

Guess that means I have no excuses now to get the front doors back together...except for the heat that is. It's friggin' hot & humid right now in AZ  I'll give 'er a go this weekend.

I also went ahead and ordered a pair of those mini ball tripod mounts. Should be able to get the 3" aiming/mounting worked out right after I close up the front doors.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here's the assembly I threw together for the mids. These will be temporary to get them aimed. Actually, they look pretty decent and could possibly be used as a permanent install I suppose. The mini ball tripod mounts are pretty stout and they should have no problem holding fast with the weight of the pod & mid.


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## TheBetterMethod (Sep 19, 2012)

Pretty slick!


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Wow, cool! Would those work on a dash?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> Wow, cool! Would those work on a dash?


Don't see why they wouldn't. Could even be mounted to the pillar. The bottom of the mini ball mount is dual sized. Can be used as a 1/4" or 3/8" base mount. Use a smaller ABS or PVC cap and mount a tweeter with it.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

My only concern would be the airspace for the mid. They'll probably have to be crossed higher since they won't have much space behind them. But since you're installing them down in the kicks near the midbass that'll be inconsequential. I was thinking using them as widebanders on the dash. Keep us posted on the frequency response, if you please.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Yeah, there isn't much space in there once the speaker is dropped in. Since it isn't the permanent install I wasn't so worried about it...but had wondered if it would affect sound enough to make a difference during aiming.

I was thinking of drilling a couple small holes in the back of the pod to allow a more vented or IB type setup. I'm not even sure how much air these NZ3's like and whether they'd do better in sealed, vented, or IB? Once I get to the phase of actual kick panel construction, there will be much more room available for them if they need it.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

What are the dimensions on those NZ3's? 
You've seen my crazy-assed pillar pods. I made a set for some small mids that I never used. If they fit yours you can have them.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> What are the dimensions on those NZ3's?
> You've seen my crazy-assed pillar pods. I made a set for some small mids that I never used. If they fit yours you can have them.


Which iteration pod are you talking about...you seem to have had so many  You're not talking about the "funnel" shaped acetal ones?

Overall diameter is 89mm, cut-out is 74mm, depth is 42mm

At this point I'm not totally committed to building an entire kick for one 3" widebander. If I can come up with a nice enough looking pod in the direction I'm going or like what you have, then I'll just use a pod connected to the kick in the same way as we would to an A-pillar. The challenge will be getting enough airspace without upsizing to a much larger pod.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Offroader5 said:


> Which iteration pod are you talking about...you seem to have had so many  You're not talking about the "funnel" shaped acetal ones?
> 
> Overall diameter is 89mm, cut-out is 74mm, depth is 42mm
> 
> At this point I'm not totally committed to building an entire kick for one 3" widebander. If I can come up with a nice enough looking pod in the direction I'm going or like what you have, then I'll just use a pod connected to the kick in the same way as we would to an A-pillar. The challenge will be getting enough airspace without upsizing to a much larger pod.


yeah I know, I've been through a bunch of pods. I was thinking of the one below, which I made for the Pioneer midrange in the 2nd pic, but that might be too small for yours. I can measure when I get home later.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

What size is that threaded mount hole?

Those would be sweet. Thinking and seeing many more pods now, I think I'm leaning more toward just wanting to mount some nice pods down near the kick in lieu of building a whole kick. I think if I do it right, it would look great.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

The mounting hole is 3/8-16. I used a thread stud with a thru-hole to run the wiring inside and attach it to my pillar, but the ID is pretty tight for anything larger than 16ga speaker wire.

I was gonna do these mid-tweet pods in my Lexus, either in the kicks or on the dash, but got fed up with too many processor issues in that install and went back mostly to stock.









If nothing else, I might have an aluminum baffle that works out for your mids, just add new mounting holes.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Hmm, that has me thinking. I thought I heard you mention having a sort of hook-up at work for machining when we were all talking about your new "funnel" pods. Is this the case? If so, what type of CAD file do you need in order to do 3D machining? I work on CAD all day so I have the means to draw up some ideas, but really only in 2D. I've sent off dxf files to people before, but that was only 2D plate cut-outs.

I have Solidworks at home, but haven't used it in a while and didn't really know how to use it well to begin with


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Offroader5 said:


> Which iteration pod are you talking about...you seem to have had so many  You're not talking about the "funnel" shaped acetal ones?
> 
> Overall diameter is 89mm, cut-out is 74mm, depth is 42mm
> 
> At this point I'm not totally committed to building an entire kick for one 3" widebander. If I can come up with a nice enough looking pod in the direction I'm going or like what you have, then I'll just use a pod connected to the kick in the same way as we would to an A-pillar. The challenge will be getting enough airspace without upsizing to a much larger pod.


 
I think it would be beneficial for you to hear my stereo with my mids now in my kicks. Since you have heard it with them in the pillars this would allow you to hear the difference moving them to the kicks can do for you. We can meet up this weekend if you would like. 

Todd those pods are awesome and once again I have to say you are an awesome person.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Offroader5 said:


> Hmm, that has me thinking. I thought I heard you mention having a sort of hook-up at work for machining when we were all talking about your new "funnel" pods. Is this the case? If so, what type of CAD file do you need in order to do 3D machining? I work on CAD all day so I have the means to draw up some ideas, but really only in 2D. I've sent off dxf files to people before, but that was only 2D plate cut-outs.
> 
> I have Solidworks at home, but haven't used it in a while and didn't really know how to use it well to begin with


Yes, I have full machine shop access at the office. I can get just about anything made for a cost-effective price, but anything that has complicated geometry or requires 3D profiling has to go on one of the CNC centers and the costs are higher. Plus, our CNC's stay booked for long periods so there's usually a wait to get parts off them. The pillar pods you've seen in my truck were manually machined on an engine lathe/bridgeport since they're not as complex. I have machined a few items, but usually let one of the real machinists do it, as they're faster and the quality is better than my hack skills.

For anything machined manually, just need a 2D drawing since they don't program to a CAD file. We have AutoCad and SolidWorks, so any format is fine if you want to send me something and get an idea of cost. (not trying to solicit work from ya, just throwing it out there as a potential option if you want to stay with the pod ideas).


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

07azhhr said:


> I think it would be beneficial for you to hear my stereo with my mids now in my kicks. Since you have heard it with them in the pillars this would allow you to hear the difference moving them to the kicks can do for you. We can meet up this weekend if you would like.
> 
> Todd those pods are awesome and once again I have to say you are an awesome person.


Robert - any pics of your kicks? Don't want to hijack this thread so maybe post them in your log/elsewhere.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

07azhhr said:


> I think it would be beneficial for you to hear my stereo with my mids now in my kicks. Since you have heard it with them in the pillars this would allow you to hear the difference moving them to the kicks can do for you. We can meet up this weekend if you would like.
> 
> Todd those pods are awesome and once again I have to say you are an awesome person.


I'm not retreating from putting them in the kicks, just possibly the way in which they end up there . I'm thinking of maybe using a pod stem mounted either down from the bottom of the dash or from the side off the kick...in lieu of building fiberglass kicks. After hearing these mids down there, I think they belong there. I figure, if the pod idea doesn't pan out quite like I intend...I can still build fiberglass kicks.



ISTundra said:


> Yes, I have full machine shop access at the office. I can get just about anything made for a cost-effective price, but anything that has complicated geometry or requires 3D profiling has to go on one of the CNC centers and the costs are higher. Plus, our CNC's stay booked for long periods so there's usually a wait to get parts off them. The pillar pods you've seen in my truck were manually machined on an engine lathe/bridgeport since they're not as complex. I have machined a few items, but usually let one of the real machinists do it, as they're faster and the quality is better than my hack skills.
> 
> For anything machined manually, just need a 2D drawing since they don't program to a CAD file. We have AutoCad and SolidWorks, so any format is fine if you want to send me something and get an idea of cost. (not trying to solicit work from ya, just throwing it out there as a potential option if you want to stay with the pod ideas).


Cool, I'll have to play around in CAD and see what I can come up with. The design shouldn't be anything too ridiculous. I'm guessing the only thing that would really force it to be CNC'd would be "ears" or other protrusions that you couldn't do on a turned piece...correct?

We use Microstation here, so it's easy enough for me to export as dxf, dwg, or even dgn if your AutoCAD version can open the dgn's. Now that I think about it, since it would not be CAD driven software doing the machining...I suppose a PDF would even work  You're more or less just looking for a dimensioned drawing.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> Robert - any pics of your kicks? Don't want to hijack this thread so maybe post them in your log/elsewhere.


Does Robert even have a log? If he does, I don't think he's been updating it. Maybe he gave up since he keeps changing things ever other week :laugh:


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Offroader5 said:


> Cool, I'll have to play around in CAD and see what I can come up with. The design shouldn't be anything too ridiculous. I'm guessing the only thing that would really force it to be CNC'd would be "ears" or other protrusions that you couldn't do on a turned piece...correct?
> 
> We use Microstation here, so it's easy enough for me to export as dxf, dwg, or even dgn if your AutoCAD version can open the dgn's. Now that I think about it, since it would not be CAD driven software doing the machining...I suppose a PDF would even work  You're more or less just looking for a dimensioned drawing.


"ears" could be attached to the pod with hidden fasteners, or the pod with ears could be milled wholly on a bridgeport. A cylindrical pod doesn't have to be turned, although that's usually faster. A PDF drawing would work.

Microstation? Been like 15 years since I've seen that anywhere. I used it for about a year back then, never liked it.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Offroader5 said:


> Does Robert even have a log? If he does, I don't think he's been updating it. Maybe he gave up since he keeps changing things ever other week :laugh:


Haha. Actually this is the only change to the front I have ever made location wise . I have change tweets once and now mids too. I will be also possibly changing my midbasses lol. 

But nope no build log. Heck none of my built stuff are even fully finished. They are all functional just not covered yet as I keep finding that I suck at vinyl work .


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> "ears" could be attached to the pod with hidden fasteners, or the pod with ears could be milled wholly on a bridgeport. A cylindrical pod doesn't have to be turned, although that's usually faster. A PDF drawing would work.
> 
> Microstation? Been like 15 years since I've seen that anywhere. I used it for about a year back then, never liked it.


Just one of the ideas I'm kicking around in my head would use ears to mount the pod...but the separate ears mounted with hidden hardware idea could work well especially if I use it as part of the overall design.

I've used Microsation for the last 12 years. I have had to use AutoCAD also during that period though on and off. I am a structural detailer and the company that makes the software we use that is proprietary to the product I work with teamed up with Bentley so that their program runs seamlessly inside Microstation.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

In my pod experimentation, I initially tried to make everything one piece, but found that making them more modular allowed for easier mods/adjustments for fit, or to be able to change something out like you saw with my waveguide thingys on my tweeters. So depending on what you end up with design-wise, it might be more flexible for your ears or other attachment feature to be a separate piece.

Drawing for those pods attached. It doesn't look like it will work for you but if you can figure out a way you can have them.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Looks like they'd be too small. Inner diameter isn't large enough. Oh well, thanks for the offer though. Guess I'll have to go about it the long way


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Did a bit of work on the drivers door this morning. Installed some CLD tiles on the outer skin. I also cut out the large opening of the inner skin that I originally covered with two layers of deadener. Made a sheetmetal cover for the hole and sprayed it with undercoating on the inner side for corrosion resistance. I'll use butyl rope as a gasket to attach this to the door opening, and will put some CLD tiles over it and also some on the interior side before I attach it. Between the butyl rope and the CLD over the top of it, I shouldn't have to worry about mechanically fastening it to the door. Then on to the CCF and MLV.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Looking good John. I screwed mine to my doors so that I could easily remove them if needed.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

There is a little lip around the opening that insets it and it's pretty narrow...so a screw would have a hard time catching it. I would have had to make the filler piece larger so it would cover over the whole thing and it would have made it a bit thicker than I wanted in this area. As it is already, the area on the left side of this filler piece sits almost flush to the inside face of the door panel. It'll be a tight fit after I get the layers of deadener, CCF and MLV on it. 

I figure that if I do ever need to get into the door for maintenance, nothing I'm doing will be permanent. Everything I'm putting on could be peeled away.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Hopefully if you ever have to get in there it will be only once.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Yeah, I'm hoping that too...especially since it's all buttoned up and it would take a bit of time to get in there


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

Really nice work. Thanks for sharing!


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Had to upsize the pods for the NZ3's. They needed a bit more space to breathe. The new pods are made using a 4" PVC coupler and 1/4" MDF. Gross volume came out right at .65L (.023 cu.ft.) so after displacement, it should net around .6L

These are still just "temporary"  for testing and aiming...but if I end up deciding to actually put the NZ3's in the kicks, I can use these as the enclosure to build them out.

Not bad for a jigsaw and Dremel drum sander in my drill press  The ends fit very tight and probably don't even need glue...but I'm going to dab some hot glue inside to make sure they stay put.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here they are...somewhat. I tried up high on the door..almost at the upper edge of the dash, down near the floor in the kick area as far forward as possible, and this location just below knee level attached to the door. This location by far sounded the best.

Only issue is that I can't keep them in this exact spot since the passenger side would be in the way of opening the glove box. I suppose that isn't a really big issue, but if I am in the drivers seat and for some reason want to get into the glove box, I would need to stretch across and slightly open the passenger door to do so 

I'll need to lower them about 2" in order to clear the glove box door when open, or simply do away with a pod or FG enclosure on the door itself and install them directly behind the positions they are shown in the photo...in the kick panel. This would pull them far enough away from the glove box/bottom of dash to not be an issue.

At least now I have a general area and aiming figured out and know that I want to do kick panels. Time to stop by the junk yard and pick up a sacrificial pair of front kick panels.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Offroader5 said:


> Here they are...somewhat. I tried up high on the door..almost at the upper edge of the dash, down near the floor in the kick area as far forward as possible, and this location just below knee level attached to the door. This location by far sounded the best.
> 
> Only issue is that I can't keep them in this exact spot since the passenger side would be in the way of opening the glove box. I suppose that isn't a really big issue, but if I am in the drivers seat and for some reason want to get into the glove box, I would need to stretch across and slightly open the passenger door to do so
> 
> ...


I like this, but a couple comments/questions...
Wouldn't the driver's side pod be partially blocked by your leg/knee?
When you tried them down in the kicks -did you play with the phase/time alignment? Seems like they could be made to work well as far down and back as you can get them, with tuning.


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## Tsmith (Dec 17, 2008)

I have an 04 Sequoia and I have 4" mids mounted in my kicks as far down and back against the firewall as possible. I think they sound really nice. My tweeters are mounted in the sail panel area. I agree with ISTundra about the kicks with proper tuning. Just my $.02.


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

Awesome work. I'm amazed and wish I had your ability. Looks good. 




Offroader5 said:


> Here they are...somewhat. I tried up high on the door..almost at the upper edge of the dash, down near the floor in the kick area as far forward as possible, and this location just below knee level attached to the door. This location by far sounded the best.
> 
> Only issue is that I can't keep them in this exact spot since the passenger side would be in the way of opening the glove box. I suppose that isn't a really big issue, but if I am in the drivers seat and for some reason want to get into the glove box, I would need to stretch across and slightly open the passenger door to do so
> 
> ...


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## Mindcrime (Jul 18, 2012)

I would like to take a listen one of these days.... What part of Az are you in? I just installed the Nz AT 's in my truck... What do you think of them? I really like them so far


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> I like this, but a couple comments/questions...
> Wouldn't the driver's side pod be partially blocked by your leg/knee?
> When you tried them down in the kicks -did you play with the phase/time alignment? Seems like they could be made to work well as far down and back as you can get them, with tuning.


Actually, when sitting in the drivers seat, if I have my left foot on the dead pedal, I can look right down and see the entire mid over my leg..just barely. I didn't mess with the phase or TA since I didn't have the DSP yet. I can't really go back very far on the kicks. I want to keep my dead pedal since I use it all the time and would really miss it. The area I'm going to try in the kicks is toward the bottom near the front edge. About here:



Kinda stinks that the passenger side is in the way of the glove box as I have them now...it sounds pretty damn good and I already have a decent center image at the top of the dash without even having any EQ or TA yet.

I'm checking auto recyclers around town trying to find a Runner to pull some kick panels out of, once I find them I can get to cutting and place them low in the kicks for some testing.



Mindcrime said:


> I would like to take a listen one of these days.... What part of Az are you in? I just installed the Nz AT 's in my truck... What do you think of them? I really like them so far


So far I love them. Just need to get them aimed and mounted so I can finally get to tuning the things. I'm so picky, I may never get to that stage


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## Mindcrime (Jul 18, 2012)

Lol, I hear ya... I messd with mine forever... Finally ended up right back where I started.. Go figure right?


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

John it almost looks like you can sink them into those kicks without having to build the kicks out at all. My kick panels have very little room behind them so I had to build mine out. Without seeing the back side of yours in relation to the metal and other stuff i am just guessing that yours could sink into the panels of course. Hopefully atleast half the ring can fit and the other half be glassed. This is having the rings start on that front most section that faces you then sweep back towards the dead pedal as needed for your desired angle. 

For now just remove the panels like you have with your door panels and try them in various spots. You will be suprised at how the sound will seem to be unobstructed by your legs. I know I was for sure. The sound seems to wrap around my leg to get to me without much if any change in sound no matter how I place my legs. That was actually my biggest aconcern with moving to the kicks.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Mindcrime said:


> Lol, I hear ya... I messd with mine forever... Finally ended up right back where I started.. Go figure right?


Well, I can't really go back to the original spot (which is what's shown above), just due to the fact that I may want to open my glove box at some point without having to open the passenger door.  But I know what ya mean.

Missed the other part of your question above...I'm in Apache Junction...wayyyy far East to you Phoenix folk  And, sure you can have a listen. Even though it is in a "working" order, it's not much to listen to right now. I'm hoping I'll have it all figured out, installed, and tuned by our next local GTG.



07azhhr said:


> John it almost looks like you can sink them into those kicks without having to build the kicks out at all. My kick panels have very little room behind them so I had to build mine out. Without seeing the back side of yours in relation to the metal and other stuff i am just guessing that yours could sink into the panels of course. Hopefully atleast half the ring can fit and the other half be glassed. This is having the rings start on that front most section that faces you then sweep back towards the dead pedal as needed for your desired angle.
> 
> For now just remove the panels like you have with your door panels and try them in various spots. You will be suprised at how the sound will seem to be unobstructed by your legs. I know I was for sure. The sound seems to wrap around my leg to get to me without much if any change in sound no matter how I place my legs. That was actually my biggest aconcern with moving to the kicks.


They will need to stick out a little bit. There is a lot of wiring and big molded plastic wire routing frames behind the kicks. There should be enough room to push the magnet back a bit, but I don't see a problem with being able to sweep them back like you say and keep the dead pedal as long as I keep them toward the front of the kick.

Take a look at this pic:



You can see that once the door panel is on, it covers the very front edge of the kick that you can see in the previous pics. Then there is an angled face before it turns to go back into the floor. I was hoping to use this angled face as the location to mount the mids. I was thinking just as this face comes around the curve at the bottom to go vertical would be a good starting point. So essentially, directly forward of the door woofer position.

I have a feeling the imaging/sound will be a bit better since the PLD's would be even longer than what they are with the pods.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

With the size of those kicks you might be able to get both speakers to be at the same axis to BOTH seats. I am doing this with my tweeters now which allows both of them to have the same roll off no matter which seat you are sitting in. I did this for my seat but it turned out that both seats get to take advantage of this. My goal here was that they are the same axis to me but still are at matching angles to the car. With the way they are sitting I am in line with the lower left side (just off center) of both of their domes then if I sit in the passanger seat I am in line with the lower right side of both domes. I think you might be able to acomplish this in the kicks with those speakers.

Since you are going to be playing those speakers all the way to the top this will allow you to avoid having to eq one sides roll off to match the other. If you can have them both less then 15* off axis to you then you should get to take advantage of their entire range.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Well, lookie lookie. Miracles CAN happen.

Only took 3 months to get it.



Still not done with the drama though...he forgot to put the bluetooth module in with it  At least I can get it installed and use the cable till it gets here.


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## bigguy (Apr 13, 2010)

Awesome build so far, can't wait to see the end.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I thought I had posted this...but I guess not. The planned layout for the amp rack. This will sit behind the rear seat more or less vertical but with a bit of lean to kinda match the seat back angle. I'm limited on the height of the board so the only way to get all the amps & 6to8 to fit across the width was to turn the amps vertical. The PPI Phantoms logo is set horizontal...and having sideways rotated logos will just not do 

I'll either get or have made some new vinyl logos to be upright or was thinking of just using colored vinyl wrap to cover the insert area of the amp and not have logos shown at all. Maybe a silver color to match the exterior paint.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Hey John, how's it going? Any progress that you haven't shared because on one has asked?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> Hey John, how's it going? Any progress that you haven't shared because on one has asked?


Not much at all in the way of progress. I did find replacement kick panels from a junk yard to use for the modified kicks. That way I don't ruin the nice one's and can put it back to stock if needed. I installed the junk yard one's and temporarily mounted the pods I have onto them with the tripod ball heads I was using to attach them to the doors. This allowed me to put the front door panels back on and get a good seal on the midbass to hear what they really sound like.

I also have the amp board laid out ready to be cut & drilled.

I've more or less just been lazy since it still doesn't seem to want to cool down. I don't have a fancy garage or even a covered area to work under, so it's tougher to convince myself to get my ass out there and do things that need done. One of those things is to finish up the FG enclosure


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

The amp board seems to be coming together slowly, but is coming together. I am trying to remind myself why I decided to buy all the parts to make my own patch cables. I'm OK with a solder gun, but jeeez, this is tedious. Only 5 more cables left to make.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I finally have the amp board completed and installed. Was trying to have it done for a local GTG yesterday, but there just wasn't enough time. Had it about 95% wired up and still had tuning to do, so I just accepted that I'd be tuneless for the GTG.

I spent some time this morning buttoning up the last connections then pulled out the laptop to start tuning. No idea what I'm doing here, but just tried to get it sounding good to my ears. If I can figure out how the hell to get my mic to work with REW, I could take some measurements and at least see how close I am. I'd rather start with it flat...then adjust to taste from there.

I'll have some pics up tomorrow, just pulled them from the camera and won't have a chance to upload tonight.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

We want pics!!!


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I know, I know...I'm being bad. The last couple nights have been spent sitting in the backyard in the drivers seat with laptop open and tuning (trying to). I was able to get REW to record and started adjusting to get the peaks & valleys smoothed out a bit...and when I was done, it sounded like crap. Of course I overwrote the previous save so I had to start from scratch.

I think I need to take a night off of tuning, so I'll try and get them uploaded tomorrow.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here are the pics of the amp board. And it's been a while since I swapped in the 15, so here's a pic of it too. Dayton HO in a temporary 2 cube sealed enclosure. The center amp will soon be bridged for the midbass. Right now the MR & MB are running off one 900.4


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Alright, so can someone tell me why when I try and tune using a measurement from REW, it ends up sounding very bad?

I spent a couple hours this weekend taking measurements. I believe I'm doing it right, I used Bikinpunk's walk thru tutorial. I used 1/6 octave smoothing to more obviously show off the high & low points. At 1/3 they were more sharp and less pronounced as to which freq. needed help. I have to be doing something wrong. I never got close to flat, but did start to bring the high points down and the lows up. I had to have taken 50+ measurements during the process. Take the measurements, make adjustments to the bad spots, and remeasure.

After a while of this I sat back and listened to some familiar music tracks and I thought it was horrible. Luckily this time I saved my previous settings and just reverted back.

Maybe I should take a video of the steps I'm going through to take the measurement so someone could tell me if I'm doing something wrong...and also so you can see the smoothing result and whether that is so far off to begin with that it's affecting the tuning in some way.


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## jpsandberg (Jun 12, 2008)

Cool build so far! Any more updates?

If you haven't started on building the kicks yet, is there any reason you can't just mount the passenger side mid directly to the glovebox itself and run the wires thru that vs mounting and wiring thru the door? That way you wouldn't need to open the passenger door when opening the glovebox and the mid would just swing down with the GB door.


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## bcbsox (Sep 14, 2010)

Any updates?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Wow, just realized it's been almost a year since I updated this thread. 

Still haven't done anything with the kicks. I keep tossing ideas back and forth on which I want to put down there...the midbass or the midrange. I mocked up a sort of sail panel/upper door pod I was thinking of putting the mids & tweets into...and have revisited the thought of fitting the 8's into the kicks. Only REAL changes to speak of...but haven't taken any pics of yet:

I swapped the NZ3 mids out for the AR3A's along with installing the AR20 tweets.

I had to rebuild the amp board since I've gotten back into mountain biking (wanted to be able to put the bike inside). I squeezed all the amps & DSP together to one side as tight as I could to gain a pass through from the rear cargo area on the opposite side.

I just purchased the SP-DIF card, AMAS-2 module, and the RCD controller for the Mosconi 6to8. I'm going to give 'er a go using my new Win8 tablet as a source and stream via Bluetooth to the Mosconi. I'm sick of the lagging and lock-ups of my Kenwood HU...plus I'll get better sound and be able to play FLAC's etc using the tablet. I'm moving toward possibly getting rid of the HU all together.

Right now I'm undecided on sub. I have several choices to use on hand...but the new Sundown SD-3 12's that will be coming out soon have me very interested. I am pondering a sub enclosure install much closer to the front of the truck.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Awwww. I went and did it now.

I just ordered a pair of the SI BM-MKIV 12's 

Can't wait to get them.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Got the SP-DIF card installed into the 6to8 and AMAS-2 module wired in. Both my Samsung Note 2 & my Win8 tablet had no problem connecting. The phone works..but the signal is always getting interupted for a split second when the phone does anything like screen timing out and things like that. Not a big deal since I'll be using the tablet primarily..but nice to know the phone connects and works also. So cool to be streaming...and I can tell the signal is cleaner. No hiss anymore on silence.

I have an idea of trying to mount the 6to8 controller into a stealthy spot in easy reach right in the center console arm rest. We'll see how that turns out.

I also have some pretty interesting ideas on possible front pod designs and some custom enclosures for the SI subs. Again...we'll have to see...if my skill can do what my mind sees.


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## ben54b (May 30, 2014)

Great build. Fantastic photos as well. Just wondering how you attached the jute to the roof as I need to pull my roof lining and am planning to do almost the same. 

What kind of mountain bike do you have. I too am rediscovering my previous love of it again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ben54b said:


> Great build. Fantastic photos as well. Just wondering how you attached the jute to the roof as I need to pull my roof lining and am planning to do almost the same.
> 
> What kind of mountain bike do you have. I too am rediscovering my previous love of it again
> 
> ...


I used 3M "High Strength 90" spray adhesive to attach the jute to all the interior surfaces.

I picked up a new GT 29'er. Nice and light vs. my old 26" mountain bike.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

After a morning of single trackin the mountain bike, I decided to use the rest of the day to install the RCD controller for the Mosconi 6to8. Went better than I thought it would 

I wasn't even sure I could get it to fit in the spot I wanted due to the thickness of the controller...but with half a days worth of head scratching and intricate work, it ended up pretty slick.

This is where she'll call home...the front flip out of my center console.


I forgot to take a pic of what this flip out looked like before I cut the hole..I was excited to get started  Needless to say...it was solid like the other half  You can see the webbing of the cover will be in the way of the controller.


Here's the two pieces of the flip (inner & outer). Again you can see the webbing that will have to be cut out from the underside of the armrest cover.


Here is the final fit after a bit of detail work on the cut out.


Here's a view of how far it's sunk in.


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## ben54b (May 30, 2014)

Offroader5 said:


> I used 3M "High Strength 90" spray adhesive to attach the jute to all the interior surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up a new GT 29'er. Nice and light vs. my old 26" mountain bike.



Thanks heaps for the reply. I'm hoping that the jute makes a significant difference to the road noise inside. I've had a few gts over the yrs. nice bikes. Great value for money. A lot like the new ppi gear actually. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ben54b (May 30, 2014)

That fitting for the controller is great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Brackets made from some flat aluminum sheet.


Brackets in place.


Here's a front view with the screws installed. I was hoping to make the mounting stealthy, but after doing it this way...I think it looks just fine.


Once It was all at home in it's mount, unfortunately when closed, the knob of the controller didn't have enough clearance for the flip to close all the way. There was no additional room to sink in the controller any further to gain added clearance, so I just went ahead and drilled a clearance hole 


I didn't snap pictures of the wire routing through this whole assembly and how much plastic removal, trimming, & shaving was involved...not to mention trying to route the cable without bending it too much and so it would move correctly when the flip was opened. After much trial & error & swearing...it finally fell together.


Here's more or less the finished product out of the vehicle.


Here's what it looks like from the drivers seat.



And....check this out.....


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

****ing AAA cotton !!! That's bad asss


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## chillaxing (Nov 25, 2014)

Dude, nice build. Putting the control in the center console is awsome. Never thought cutting it up and putting it there.

I have couple of questions. Did you find a way to stop the rear hatch's window from vibrating? I know the white stuff is polyfill but what is the grey stuff and where did you get it? Does deadening the plastic panels help with the vibrations? Also, do you get a lot of wind noise, and how did you fix it, if so? How many sqf did it take to deaden the vehicle minus the panels. Sorry for all the questions, but i'm about purchase material to deaden and decouple everything.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

chillaxing said:


> Dude, nice build. Putting the control in the center console is awsome. Never thought cutting it up and putting it there.
> 
> I have couple of questions. Did you find a way to stop the rear hatch's window from vibrating? I know the white stuff is polyfill but what is the grey stuff and where did you get it? Does deadening the plastic panels help with the vibrations? Also, do you get a lot of wind noise, and how did you fix it, if so? How many sqf did it take to deaden the vehicle minus the panels. Sorry for all the questions, but i'm about purchase material to deaden and decouple everything.


My rear hatch & window only seemed to vibrate when the enclosure was situated where the sub was aimed right at it. I had the sub turned sideways towards both sides at one point and the rear hatch movement was reduced a lot.

The grey stuff is jute backing. Kinda like the stuff they use for OEM undercarpet padding. It's made up of mashed together fibers/threads of different materials like cotton, denim, stuff like that. It's about 1/4" to 3/8" thick. Fabric stores don't usually carry it, you have to go to a local upholstery supply shop where they also carry foam padding, leather, upholstery fabrics...etc. I did it mostly as a padding between parts so they wouldn't rattle against each other. I had bought a large roll of it, so I decided it couldn't hurt to put it in the headliner while I had the interior torn apart.

Not sure how much vibration reduction deadening the plastic achevied, but it does make them more solid/heavy which to me means they'll not move/shift around as much. Plus if they do rattle or vibrate, I'd assume the sound of the rattle would be a bit lower in freq. (and less audible) since the pieces are weighted down with the deadener. Plus, I had plenty of the deadener on hand, so again I figured why the hell not since everything was disassembled.

I origianally bought a 100 sq. ft. roll of the deadener. Used pretty much all of it (including the panels). I also later bought some real nice CLD tiles and used them to line the interior side of the outer door panels.

Not sure what you mean by "wind noise"? Do you mean when the windows are up and you can hear the wind whistling/howling as you drive?


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

I really like the center arm rest mount for the controller. The bent aluminum tabs are simple and clean, very cool !


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice job with the RCD, looks great in there.


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## danzell (Jan 25, 2015)

Fantastic idea with that armrest controller!


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Thanks guys.

Every once in a while I get lucky with an idea I can actually make happen. I'm just glad it all turned out well in the end.

Driving to work this morning, I realized how accessible it is in that location. With the flip open, I don't have to move at all to reach the dial. Your hand just naturally falls right on top of the knob with your arm in the normal postion on the arm rest. Originally I was going to put it into a popout cubby in the bottom of the center dash console, but didn't want to have to lean forward to reach the knob.

One thing that irritates me is the knob on the controller. I like the fact that it is low profile, but they really needed to put some sort of texture on the outer edge of the knob, or coat it in a rubberish coating for gription. The low profile of the knob lends itself to one or two finger operation, but since the edge and top have no texture, your fingers tend to slip instead of rotating the knob. I may take a very small round jewlers file and file "grip" grooves into the top corner around it's perimeter.


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

controller install is inspirational.... if only i had a place like that!


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## chillaxing (Nov 25, 2014)

Yeah, the wind noise thats coming through the window or door when your at highway speeds. My 4runner is pretty old, an 06. I just feel like the seals aren't doing to well of a job, anymore. Seeing if you have the same problem, and did you fix it, if you do/did?

One way to deal with the knob situation. You can use something with some texture and just glue or stick it on top or around the knob. So then, if you do decide to sell it, you can just peel it off and use some alcohol to remove the rest of the adhesive. But then you would just have two holes for no apparent reason .

To me, Toyota did great with this generation's 4runner cockpit and intereior. I didn't notice how good it was till I finally installed my rig. 

Guess where my controllers are going when i get a dsp and bass knob. Mmmm Hmmmm, booyaaa. Sorry to take you style, but its just to good of a place not to go there.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

chillaxing said:


> Yeah, the wind noise thats coming through the window or door when your at highway speeds. My 4runner is pretty old, an 06. I just feel like the seals aren't doing to well of a job, anymore. Seeing if you have the same problem, and did you fix it, if you do/did?
> 
> One way to deal with the knob situation. You can use something with some texture and just glue or stick it on top or around the knob. So then, if you do decide to sell it, you can just peel it off and use some alcohol to remove the rest of the adhesive. But then you would just have two holes for no apparent reason .
> 
> ...


Don't really have the issues with leaky door seals. I did however notice a HUGE drop in road noise after I fully treated all 4 doors with several layers of deadener, jute padding, CCF layer, and MLV curtains. I have people with brand new Toyotas ride in mine and they are amazed at how much quieter my ride is than their brand new truck.

I like this gen of Runner. I've thought recently about buying another Runner, but in either the "updated" 4th gen ('06-'09)...or if I can afford it, an early 5th gen ('10-'12). The new one would get the stereo install and become my daily. The '03 I have now would then be built up with solid axles and at least 37's, bumpers, winch, etc..

Put your controller there, I don't care  :thumbsup:


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

Offroader5 said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> One thing that irritates me is the knob on the controller. I like the fact that it is low profile, but they really needed to put some sort of texture on the outer edge of the knob, or coat it in a rubberish coating for gription. The low profile of the knob lends itself to one or two finger operation, but since the edge and top have no texture, your fingers tend to slip instead of rotating the knob. I may take a very small round jewlers file and file "grip" grooves into the top corner around it's perimeter.


The knob is fixed to the volume pot with an allen key set screw. If you take the cover off the controller, you should be able to loosen the set screw and slide the knob "out" further. I have the full size and mini controllers and have had to do it with both.

Simplicity in Sound has sanded the edge of the knob down on several installs they have posted, not sure if it would give you better grip or not but might be worth a try?


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## chillaxing (Nov 25, 2014)

I was thinking the same thing with the deadener. I was gonna get some knu colo for the doors, rear hatch and quarterpanel, and probably some fatmat for the roof and floor. How many layers did you do? Did you do all layers at once, or did you do it in steps, where you can actually here the difference with each layer that you put on? I'm trying to weigh in the "cost to benefit" ratio. At first I was just gonna get a 35sqf car kit and just do the the 25% method, since knu colo is pretty expensive. After seeing your setup. Now I'm thinking of going 25% with the Knu and then 100% with fatmat. Or, should I go with 100% knu on the doors and just get enough fatmat to run two layers for the floor and roof.

I was thinking of turning my runner into a rock climbing/exploring rig. But after seeing tacos and runners get stuck on some rocks, cause of the wheel base being to long. With my friend and I passing them and going into places they can't, with his sidekick. I'm doing up a sidekick as soon as I'm done with my install.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

chillaxing said:


> I was thinking the same thing with the deadener. I was gonna get some knu colo for the doors, rear hatch and quarterpanel, and probably some fatmat for the roof and floor. How many layers did you do? Did you do all layers at once, or did you do it in steps, where you can actually here the difference with each layer that you put on? I'm trying to weigh in the "cost to benefit" ratio. At first I was just gonna get a 35sqf car kit and just do the the 25% method, since knu colo is pretty expensive. After seeing your setup. Now I'm thinking of going 25% with the Knu and then 100% with fatmat. Or, should I go with 100% knu on the doors and just get enough fatmat to run two layers for the floor and roof.
> 
> I was thinking of turning my runner into a rock climbing/exploring rig. But after seeing tacos and runners get stuck on some rocks, cause of the wheel base being to long. With my friend and I passing them and going into places they can't, with his sidekick. I'm doing up a sidekick as soon as I'm done with my install.


I bought the Fatmat due to cost. If I remember right, it was about $80-$100 for the 100 sq.ft. box that had two 50 sq.ft. rolls inside. Fatmat is far from a "high quality" CLD/deadener, but I also covered 100% with it whereas you wouldn't need 100% coverage with a higher dollar better quality product. The floor, roof, rear quarters and rear hatch I just did one full coverage layer. The doors I did two layers on the outer skin and used small pieces on the larger flat parts of the inner skin.

I then bought a full box of CLD tiles from Sound Deadener Showdown and added a layer of that on top of the Fatmat inside my outer door skins. I was trying to get rid of door resonances/vibrations with having the 8's in the doors and also trying to cross them low at the same time.


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## chillaxing (Nov 25, 2014)

ok, got it. Yeah, I think the main problems are the doors. With deadner, I just want it to be a one and done, kind a thing. I had the same idea, when I go three way, that you have right now. With putting the midbass in the stock location. So your problems right now, are going to be my problems in the future . Did you ever think of putting the mids, where the stock tweeters are, and moving the tweeters to the A pillar with pods or custom mold?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

chillaxing said:


> ok, got it. Yeah, I think the main problems are the doors. With deadner, I just want it to be a one and done, kind a thing. I had the same idea, when I go three way, that you have right now. With putting the midbass in the stock location. So your problems right now, are going to be my problems in the future . Did you ever think of putting the mids, where the stock tweeters are, and moving the tweeters to the A pillar with pods or custom mold?


I did consider putting mids in the stock upper door location since the OEM speakers that come out of there are actually a 2" mid/tweet/full range of some kind. I quickly realized that it wasn't going to be ideal.

Two big hurdles with using that spot. One is the area you have available (mostly depth). I forget what the actual measurement was, but I believe it was under 2" to keep everything behind the OEM grille.

The other is aiming. If you put them in flat to the OEM mount (which is the only way to get all available depth), then the mids will be pointed up somewhere towards the rear view mirror, which nets about a 90 off axis to the drivers side and maybe 75-80 degrees off axis to the passenger. IF you could find a mid that was very small and at the same time gave you some decent performance, then you may be able to pivot the mid a small amount and get them a bit more on axis...but you'd still be fairly far off axis (especially to the drivers side).

Thoughts had come to mind of building pods off of those OEM locations that would rise out of the door a bit so the mids could be aimed. They would have used the OEM opening in the door panel for mounting (with grille removed)...but I never really got into it and went different directions. I'm rethinking pods, but they would come off the top corner of the door/sail panel/A pillar pushing the mid & tweet as far towards the side window as possible.

I wish the 4th gens had upper dash locations like the 5th gens  Would make things much easier.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I received the SI BM MKIV's I ordered. Now all I have to do is build the enclosure.

I've already rebuilt the amp board that sits vertically behind the rear seat so that I could carry my mountain bike inside the vehicle, so the goal for this enclosure is to not be any wider than the new amp board to still utilize the pass through space I've gained on the drivers side once the rear seat is folded.

As a side note, I have been wanting to build a storage drawer in the rear cargo area for several years (this comes from my outdoor/camping/expedition wheeling side of my interests). It made sense then to build a sub enclosure/storage drawer combo. Will take a bit of head scratching to get just right, but once done should be a multi-purpose monolith of carpentry 

Here is a sneak peek:


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Looking at your drawings i can see where you have the space to the side for storage, i like that. I also like that you still have the ability to drop the seat back on the drivers side for loading of your bike. Good use of space!


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

One thing you can't see clearly from the drawings is that the drawer face extends all the way up to the bottom of the top baffle surface. This is why the upper layer is shown in the side view as coming out towards the rear further than the actual sub enclosure. The drawer when closed will cover up the small space directly behind the upper portion of the drawer face next to the enclosure.

This creates a hidden cubby (at least while the drawer is shut) that is 5" x 7" and the full interior width of the box (26"). Not real sure what I will use this cubby for, but I wanted to make the storage drawer as big as possible, but the enclosure didn't need to be quite as big, so I had some left over room.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

A small update on the Runner. All this to be able to have my audio system, a storage drawer, and still be able to transport my mountain bike inside.

First I had to make the amp board narrower to leave the room for the pass through on the drivers side where the bike sits. I picked up a pair of Stereo Integrity BM MKIV 12's since using shallow subs would allow me to design the enclosure very thin leaving room to house a decent sized storage drawer below it. Plus, it is low enough that I can still use the pull over cargo cover to hide it all (when I'm not carrying the bike). I used 3/4" plywood that covers the entire rear cargo floor to provide a good base for the drawer/sub box as well as an attachment point for the amp board hinges.

I have the box mounted down to the base using aluminum angle and T-nuts (not shown in these pics). I still need to buy the drawer glides and build the drawer box. The entire top will get another layer of 3/4" ply that will countersink the subs, extend over to the passenger rear quarter, and extend back to the rear face of the drawer box creating all kinds of additional cubby hole storage areas.


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## ben54b (May 30, 2014)

Storage space is always at a premium. Keen to hear what you think of the Si subs in your setup.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Finally made some progress on new pods/location for the AP drivers. Sick of having those PVC pods hanging down below the dash and decided it was time to get them up to the pillars.

First I tried some half spheres with a piece of 1/4" MDF glued to the front to mount the driver...but they were barely large enough to fit the magnet on these AR3a's. After talking with Rishi at AP...I knew i had to rethink the pods and give them more room to breathe.

This is what i came up with. 4" ABS cap cut down as the front baffle with a bit of a round over on the edge. The back portion is a 2" to 4" ABS reducer with the back 2" reduction portion chopped off. This will be blocked off flat to close in the back.

After all the pieces are epoxied together..ill smooth and cover with something..maybe grill cloth..dunno.

Pics soon of the attachment to the A pillars ?


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Here are the new pods assembled and mounted. Still to do some finish work to make them look nice...but they sound pretty nice. I thought they may look a bit large seeing them in pieces..but now that i have them in..i don't think they're too bad.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Great idea and nice job! I'm a plumber and although I've thought about using PVC caps for tweets I never thought about using abs fittings for bigger speakers. 


Sent from my mind using telekinesis


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Golden Ear said:


> Great idea and nice job! I'm a plumber and although I've thought about using PVC caps for tweets I never thought about using abs fittings for bigger speakers.


I seem to always be wandering around the electrical, plumbing, roofing, and hvac aisles at Lowes looking for specific parts or ways to do things regarding speakers 

It's best when you get one of the employees that asks if you need help finding anything...and you explain that you really don't know what you're looking for...but you'll know when you find it.

Even better when they get interested in helping you to figure it out. :laugh:


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Man...I haven't been in this thread for a while. A big thanks to Photobucket for changing their terms on membership . They've essentially blocked external image linking to all but the highest tier of membership which runs a ridiculous price.

Sorry for all the broken images


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