# Current world record holder-Serious SPL!!!



## TheDavel

This subsection makes me want to scream so loud that I will achieve the highest level of deebeezzzzzzzzz ever... and I mean ever!


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## AWC

amazing, huh?


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## Mike Troll

This has always been my problem with the majority of this forums members. If it isnt SQ oriented it doesnt exist. You are so closed minded about other aspects of this hobby.


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## AWC

Mike Troll said:


> This has always been my problem with the majority of this forums members. If it isnt SQ oriented it doesnt exist. You are so closed minded about other aspects of this hobby.


What if Sound Quality was the hobby? If car audio were the hobby that would be one thing (see: ca.com) and would certainly justify your position. If SQ were the hobby and this site was dedicated to achieving that goal in an automotive environment, then your statement is faulty. Either way, his feeling on the matter is evidence of HIS problem with an increasingly large part of the minority of this forums' members. So you see, as correct as you are in this statement is the exact proportion for which his stance is also correct.


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## [email protected]

AWC said:


> What if Sound Quality was the hobby? If car audio were the hobby that would be one thing (see: ca.com) and would certainly justify your position. If SQ were the hobby and this site was dedicated to achieving that goal in an automotive environment, then your statement is faulty. Either way, his feeling on the matter is evidence of HIS problem with an increasingly large part of the minority of this forums' members. So you see, as correct as you are in this statement is the exact proportion for which his stance is also correct.


but this is DIYmobliaudio not DIYsqmoblieaudio, mobile audio covers a large aspect of audio not just sq.


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## AWC

yes but it happens to have been where SQ went to play...now it just loiters some and dies of septic shock


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## fredridge

I think the big difference is there are dozens and dozens of places that are spl focused, tons of info, sub, amsp etc

this was one of the few places that really focused on SQ and you didn't have to wade through tons of SPL stuff to find it.

I was on another site the other day and saw some guy had a suburban with 2 massive subs and 3kw and stock front speakers and no amp....normally doens't bug me, but come on, what good is that at all


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## [email protected]

fredridge said:


> I think the big difference is there are dozens and dozens of places that are spl focused, tons of info, sub, amsp etc
> 
> this was one of the few places that really focused on SQ and you didn't have to wade through tons of SPL stuff to find it.
> 
> *I was on another site the other day and saw some guy had a suburban with 2 massive subs and 3kw and stock front speakers and no amp....normally doens't bug me, but come on, what good is that at all*




I know exactly what you are sayin, I hate to admit it but thats how I started out, as a spl head. Atleast I had some components or coaxialsup from. 

But on the topic of this being more of an sq forum, I am all for that, but it wont be if all the members that have been here longer leave because of the spl talk. It does have a sub forum for the spl, cant you just stay out of it?


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## AWC

BeatsDownLow said:


> I know exactly what you are sayin, I hate to admit it but thats how I started out, as a spl head. Atleast I had some components or coaxialsup from.
> 
> But on the topic of this being more of an sq forum, I am all for that, but it wont be if all the members that have been here longer leave because of the spl talk. It does have a sub forum for the spl, cant you just stay out of it?


why can't he express his feelings on the matter and then stay out of it? to spend a few years around here, then they add a new room, don't you think he has the right to check out the new room and say "damn, green shag carpet? WTF?!" and then leave the room?

I say everybody should air their feelings out on the matter and be done with it. I don't care one way or the other about the subforum but you gotta let a brutha have his say.


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## fredridge

I get what you are saying, in my younger years I was a basshead, still get yearnings every now and then..... but never just bass


but I think it is like this.

You find out you like steak, so you start going to sizzler, not the best steak, but steak...... you enjoy, but your pallet starts to develop so you think, I want something better, so you go to black angus, better steak.....then you decide that was good, now you have the budget and taste for good steak, but you hear about Ruth Chris' steakhouse.

each one has steak, but serve a different level and purpose.

would you serve a sizzler level steak in a Ruth Chris?

sometimes an SPL sub forum feels like doing that





BeatsDownLow said:


> I know exactly what you are sayin, I hate to admit it but thats how I started out, as a spl head. Atleast I had some components or coaxialsup from.
> 
> But on the topic of this being more of an sq forum, I am all for that, but it wont be if all the members that have been here longer leave because of the spl talk. It does have a sub forum for the spl, cant you just stay out of it?


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## Oliver

I've seen people mass loading doors, windshields, etc.., with their bodies


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## AWC

a$$hole said:


> I've seen people mass loading doors, windshields, etc.., with their bodies


valid point that cannot be denied....


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## azngotskills

BeatsDownLow said:


> but this is DIYmobliaudio not DIYsqmoblieaudio, mobile audio covers a large aspect of audio not just sq.


umm....sorry to burst you bubble 










well it used to be anyways....now its just different


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## MrDave

Tis true. It was one of the few places left to get some good SQ advice. Now you must weed, and weed, and weed. I don't want to be a gardener, daddy.

By the way, what's SPL?


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## 60ndown

i like sq, but in a moving vehicle i want lots of spl,

hence the new sql forum below this spl one.




























PSYCH


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## ChrisB

I like a mixture of both SPL and SQL


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## azngotskills

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I like a mixture of both SPL and SQL


You can have a LOUD SQ-based system that does not just sound like constant farting from a subwoofer


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## GLN305

azngotskills said:


> You can have a LOUD SQ-based system that does not just sound like constant farting from a subwoofer


Which is the goal for my system......

I love loud and clear and MUST have both.


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## azngotskills

GLN305 said:


> Which is the goal for my system......
> 
> I love loud and clear and MUST have both.


Well then i hope to hear it someday....im in Texas so we should definitely meet up some time


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## SublimeZ

azngotskills said:


> Well then i hope to hear it someday....im in Texas so we should definitely meet up some time


We hook up pretty often.


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## Ge0

Mike Troll said:


> This has always been my problem with the majority of this forums members. If it isnt SQ oriented it doesnt exist. You are so closed minded about other aspects of this hobby.


We were trying to keep this an SQ forum. It appears as of late that idea has went to ****. Many other forums exist to discuss SPL. Please go there if you want "expert advice" on the subject.

Ge0


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## TheDavel

Mike Troll said:


> This has always been my problem with the majority of this forums members. If it isnt SQ oriented it doesnt exist. You are so closed minded about other aspects of this hobby.


Look at my avatar- it clearly exists- mad Deebeezzzzzzzzzzzz!!!

I don't really know what to say that I (and many others) haven't already said on the subject around here before- 

things change, people change, but whay I need to figure out is "is old spice hair and body was right for me?"... I think you get the point and understand what I am saying.


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## snaimpally

SQ and SPL are not mutually exclusive. I know SQ guys, including myself, who want to be able to get good bass output while still sounding good. My friend Glenn (GLN305) got me into SQ and he is installing a nice SQ system in his truck but he is also installing three 15" Dayton HOs.


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## chithead

I too am guilty as charged. First system was two Fosgate DVC 10's in the back of a Bronco II, then two DVC 12's, then the two 10's with the two 12's, then my Mustang I actually changed the factory speakers. Still had two HE2 10's in the trunk though. That lasted until... oh... the Yukon. Then it was all out war. Fosgate HE2 12's, then Kenwood 12's, then Kicker Comp CVR 12's on their 1200.1 amplifier. Insane bass, and all factory speakers and head unit. Then came the Honda CRX, with the RE SX 18", then the three Alpine Type R's on an Orion 2250SX. That Orion led me here. And boy am I glad I found diymobileaudio. My point is, you start out young and able to take that abuse, but even at 27, that "farting" is just too much. I have spent mega bucks on a home stereo system to achieve that perfect sound, why not invest the same time and research into something I spend a lot of time in? My new Ram, I actually stepped WAY down on the subs, already changed out the factory speakers, picked up a nice four channel for those (I've never owned a four channel in all my years playing around, so that tells you how big of a step I took when I found this site). The peeps around here are very educated, and are always helpful. I never see those rants about "Well I've been in audio for 20 years so this is how it's done and blah, blah, blah..." like on other sites. I say to everybody, keep up all the good work, no matter what you're particular area of interest. Because even though I stepped up, there is still a part of me that considers adding just one big monster sub in a center console... kind of like a sleeping monster... just to break out on those occasions when I'm sitting at the stop light next to that Caprice or Honda with that trunk rattle that we all love to hear... and I just lean over, and hit my secret weapon switch... and boom...


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## rockondon

azngotskills said:


> umm....sorry to burst you bubble
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well it used to be anyways....now its just different





Ge0 said:


> We were trying to keep this an SQ forum. It appears as of late that idea has went to ****. Many other forums exist to discuss SPL. Please go there if you want "expert advice" on the subject.
> 
> Ge0


x2
This is a sad day indeed.
While i don't always have great info to share. My biggest attraction to this place was the level of intelligent "SQ" focused conversation. And a general willingness to help. With a pleasant camaraderie
Luckily the archives are still there. 


They are .......right.?


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## XC-C30

rockondon said:


> Luckily the archives are still there.
> 
> 
> They are .......right.?


I wouldn't be so sure.... They pulled bob's post, nothing that stops them from totalling this SQ forum now and pull the plug on the archives (or maybe the whole SQ part of the forum)

Are we on our way, heading for another CA.com?


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## chithead

XC-C30 said:


> Are we on our way, heading for another CA.com?


Lawdy, I sho hope not... I am thankful to have only fooled around there very briefly before finding my home here.


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## XC-C30

yeah well, not much of a home anymore when they are slowly taking the foundationf from underneath it, is it?


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## capnxtreme

snaimpally said:


> SQ and SPL are not mutually exclusive. I know SQ guys, including myself, who want to be able to get good bass output while still sounding good. My friend Glenn (GLN305) got me into SQ and he is installing a nice SQ system in his truck but he is also installing three 15" Dayton HOs.


And this is exactly why an SPL forum on DIYMA is so f'n retarded. It's not like any of us are lacking bass.


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## theRESONANCE

My take is if you dont find it useful, just dont use it. Let people who want to go deaf intermingle with each other .
there is definitely no harm to that.

I'm in with the SQL as well.
btw... three 15 daytons.. you're crazy ! :]


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## kimokalihi

AWC said:


> What if Sound Quality was the hobby? If car audio were the hobby that would be one thing (see: ca.com) and would certainly justify your position. If SQ were the hobby and this site was dedicated to achieving that goal in an automotive environment, then your statement is faulty. Either way, his feeling on the matter is evidence of HIS problem with an increasingly large part of the minority of this forums' members. So you see, as correct as you are in this statement is the exact proportion for which his stance is also correct.


That's exactly what this forum was originally made for. A place for people who don't care for SPL and want to focus on SQ can go. This section doesn't belong.


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## AWC

Listen up, people. The tides are changing. Ant gave us a line that we can cross or not but at least he gave usa repository for the unwanted. It would otherwise continue to spoil the other portions of the forum that we are all so very happy to ignore...except, of course, what gear to buy.

What is the problem, here? If they are into SPL they have this subforum and can leave the other subforums alone. However, and this is a very valid point, what will be the outcome of some SPL people coming that will read the long posts and hard questions? What if some SPL people turn out to have some good intput? What if they will help a noob out and let the precious elitist to God's work of ignoring topics because they were discuessed in the '90s and we should damn well know this stuff by now....

I like my **** REAL ****ING LOUD, OK?!?!? I also want to have those intellectually stimulating conversations that will improve staging, tonality and dynamic impact (read: emotional satisfaction)...where the hell do you find one of those these days?

IOW, be just as offended as you like, this is Ant's forum. He is probably hoping for some more traffic but desperately wants to keep us happy to. I strongly agree that TheDave gets to fully express his feeling on the matter as do many of you. This is a time of growth. Incontrovertably, all healthy things grow, and absolutley, growth requires change. Change is painful but we are the basis of this communty, not our musical tastes or research habits. It is our mutual chemistry that creates a communal feeling, nonoe of that is expected to be damaged by having an SPL subforum. It will mitigate the damage of their arrival, if damage is an appropriate word.

We need a greater sense of understanding on the way things are happening before we can judge what needs to happen. Ant could probably use the traffic. How does he do that and keep us happy? Does anybody have a netter idea? If not, than who are we to be a hinderance on his livelihood? Why, then, can we not just make something work? We all agree that Ant has money invested, increased traffic increases money, Ant, arguably, is one of us and deserves that respect. Now he may not be one of the precious few that remeber the "old DIYMA" but he is one of us, has broken the conversational bread and sipped form our emotional wine, bitter and sweet. Why, then, would we wish anything but absolute success for our brethren? If you agree, then you must admit that a compromise is necessary. 

Big words will scare away the would be destroyers. The emotional web that is a collection of personalities that we create can and will govern this body according to the unwritten rules that we follow, thus shunning any newcomers that don't quickly snap to with rigorous fastidity. 

Let's just make this work. It has been stated that I oversimplify things and the theories may be sound but, in reality, it doesn't work....this will. Make the decision....just make it work. 

I was at a car shop the other day and I helped a guy fix his SPL system and while I didn't think it sounded good, it felt good just to help using the info I;'ve gathered. There was a stranger with common ties and I helped him and we had a rewarding conversation. IOW, don't make up your mind to be close minded, you'll surely convince yourself of the rewards of that practice. Don;'t compromise your beliefs either, that's not what I'm saying. The guy asked if he should put another amp, I said I wouldn't..too much SPL, he disagreed, oh well. My position was intact and we still had a decent conversation....that is why we are here....or is it not? In retrospect, it is getting hard to have a decent audio topic these days.

Lets get into that, then. You the precious elite for whom I have the utmost respect, if you don't want to have a noobish conversation...move on. Don't just repond with an answer that makes people feel stupid. Noobs don't even know where to begin, oftern, and by the time they get a feel for it, they've been called stupid so many times that you gotta wonder...WTF are we here for? Hell you guys act mad that someone would dare to ask a question simply becasue DEEP inthe annals of this forum is a thread that covers about 12% of what they need to know and that there is another 87 threads to go to get the whole truth when one of you can just answer a question. Knowledge is power and many odf you have fooled yourself into believing that you, now, have some sort of power because someone would like to have your help...WTF? Who have you become if that struck a chord with you? 

If that didn't strike a chord then you know. We are bickering to save a forum from the same ruin that we are causing by ostercizing individuals that don't have quite enough techno-savy to be worthy of the great company that so many have abandoned anyway. 

So here comes the flames. whatever, bring it. Remeber this, I believe that we can make it work, we can make it better. It may not be the old DIYMA but if you guys know everything anyway, what are you doing here? What's the point in being here if you won't help a newbie, but know everything there is to know and, therefore, don't care to talk about SQ at all? Why are you here if not to talk? Flame all you want. If you decide to flame because I'm wrong and we really can't fix it, congrats. You're just a puss. 

I hope not to offend. I honestly want to go active within a week or so and absolutely don't feel comfortable asking for help anymore. That is the fact. Sure it may be my fault, I asked questions when I should have searched. Even after weeks of searching it wasn't good enough since so many of you have been searching for decades. It is truly the downfall when people can't ask questions. 

I've said my thang. I'm sorry if I offended any of you but my values insist that I say what I feel is right.


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## Boostedrex

capnxtreme said:


> And this is exactly why an SPL forum on DIYMA is so f'n retarded. It's not like any of us are lacking bass.


+1 for the Capn'


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## lust4sound

GLN305 said:


> Which is the goal for my system......
> 
> I love loud and clear and MUST have both.


It's funny how many times I've been bashed in here for wanting the same.

Many in here have outright stated (in much the condescending way) that a loud system cannot be regarded as a SQ system. 

I mean, who died and made those of that opinion "God of the final word" on what SQ is all about? 

Am I missing something? Is it a fact that in order to meet the ultimate SQ criteria on let's say a competitive level, a system must not exceed "X" level of decibels? 

I'm not referring to the subwoofer drag race "one note windshield cracking wonders" 

However.. 

I can't help wondering. Can a system read perfect by all competitive SQ standards, while pegging the meters at 140, 150 DB's? (please forgive the ignorance, I really don't know)

Or do physical laws prohibit a 150 DB system from achieving trophy winning SQ? If so, does it have something to do with the physical properties of drivers EG: drivers that play very loud cleanly, aren't able to play efficiently at levels that are pleasing to the ear? Or is it the limited space in the interior of an automobile?

To best simplify this whole RANT what are all the judging aspects for award winning SQ? Can award winning SQ be achieved at mega DB'S?


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## Oliver

lust4sound said:


> It's funny how many times I've been bashed in here for wanting the same.
> 
> Many in here have outright stated (in much the condescending way) that a loud system cannot be regarded as a SQ system.
> 
> I mean, who died and made those of that opinion "God of the final word" on what SQ is all about?
> 
> Am I missing something? Is it a fact that in order to meet the ultimate SQ criteria on let's say a competitive level, a system must not exceed "X" level of decibels?
> 
> I'm not referring to the subwoofer drag race "one note windshield cracking wonders"
> 
> However..
> 
> I can't help wondering. Can a system read perfect by all competitive SQ standards, while pegging the meters at 140, 150 DB's? (please forgive the ignorance, I really don't know)
> 
> Or do physical laws prohibit a 150 DB system from achieving trophy winning SQ? If so, does it have something to do with the physical properties of drivers EG: drivers that play very loud cleanly, aren't able to play efficiently at levels that are pleasing to the ear? Or is it the limited space in the interior of an automobile?
> 
> To best simplify this whole RANT what are all the judging aspects for award winning SQ? Can award winning SQ be achieved at mega DB'S?


The SoundWorks grand national [ Richard Clarks car ], had a wall of very loud sound. [ It won competitions when money was the prize ]

Now all you need is his education and pocket book !


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## Ge0

lust4sound said:


> Or do physical laws prohibit a 150 DB system from achieving trophy winning SQ? If so, does it have something to do with the physical properties of drivers EG: drivers that play very loud cleanly, aren't able to play efficiently at levels that are pleasing to the ear? Or is it the limited space in the interior of an automobile?
> 
> To best simplify this whole RANT what are all the judging aspects for award winning SQ? Can award winning SQ be achieved at mega DB'S?


In my humble opinion, a large portion of what people consider "SQ" is proper tonal balance. If your system can achieve outrageously high volume levels and maintain proper tonal balance then so be it.

But, too many of us install a single set of tweeters, single set of midbasses, and then a butt load of woofers. I will assume the midbasses and tweeters are capable of producing 114db MAX without a heinous amount of distortion. Most prefer a rising response in their bass output starting from the midbass region down to 20hz. So, let's say bass extension at the bottom octave is 15dB higher than that of the rest of the spectrum. That puts you just shy of 130dB.

To gain more output you would need to add multiples of your high frequency drivers to keep up. But then, where do you put these drivers? Is it even possible? You will probably ruin a coherant soundstage in doing so.

So, to answer your original question, yes, physics does come into play...

Ge0


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## ErinH

There's a difference in SPL (monster low end output) and SQL (sound quality at louder volume). Keep that in mind before we start blending the two together. They ARE completely separate.


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## SSSnake

Horns can help on the mid/tweet freqs but at midbass freqs things start getting tough.

What to do... raise the xover on the sub and go with large hi efficiency midbasses...

Damn that does sound like the Grand National...

As far as Bikin's post - I agree but then again I have pulled over a 140db on the same day I competed in SQ (Obviously different gain settings on the 701 but other than that no changes). But then again I suck at SQ.


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## ErinH

SSSnake said:


> (Obviously different gain settings on the 701 but other than that no changes).


that was mainly my point. I could drop my midbasses out of the picture, or HP them at 110hz and crank the sub, and I can pound away. But, then you start giving up proponents of a quality stage. 

Maybe I should run pro audio gear.


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## Locke

snaimpally said:


> SQ and SPL are not mutually exclusive. I know SQ guys, including myself, who want to be able to get good bass output while still sounding good. My friend Glenn (GLN305) got me into SQ and he is installing a nice SQ system in his truck but he is also installing three 15" Dayton HOs.


3 15" subs in a truck is not SQ IMO


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## ca90ss

Locke said:


> 3 15" subs in a truck is not SQ IMO


Why not? More cone area means less excursion for a given output level which means lower distortion.


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## AWC

ca90ss said:


> Why not? More cone area means less excursion for a given output level which means lower distortion.


who would listen to someone with such a *fowl* avatar?


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## JediMentality

Locke said:


> 3 15" subs in a truck is not SQ IMO


Well, would you consider just one 15" sub designed for SQ for an SQ oriented install? I know plenty have. You can get three of the same drivers to sound similar to just one. It's called playing with the gains and eq. Turn it down some and you'll be able have sq. Then turn it up some and then you have SQL to SPL.


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## Oliver

Yeah, it is better to have it and not use it !

Than to drive one speaker to the limits !

Most people underpower or use less than optimal and drive everything into clipping.

saves money upfront


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## fredridge

this is 2 different subjects...... cone area is not SPL or SQ....... SPL or SQ are about intended goals......very many SQ setups have large drivers, in fact larger drivers up front than most SPL guys....... also many SQ vehicles can do some serious SPL

SPL and SQ are about goals


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## lust4sound

a$$hole said:


> The SoundWorks grand national [ Richard Clarks car ], had a wall of very loud sound. [ It won competitions when money was the prize ]
> 
> Now all you need is his education and pocket book !


LOL!! 

Here's an observation. 

Your username "A$$hole" is in fact an oxymoron. What I mean to say is that you are one of the coolest dudes in here. Username a$$hole? Very misleading..


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## lust4sound

Ge0 said:


> In my humble opinion, a large portion of what people consider "SQ" is proper tonal balance. If your system can achieve outrageously high volume levels and maintain proper tonal balance then so be it.
> 
> But, too many of us install a single set of tweeters, single set of midbasses, and then a butt load of woofers. I will assume the midbasses and tweeters are capable of producing 114db MAX without a heinous amount of distortion. Most prefer a rising response in their bass output starting from the midbass region down to 20hz. So, let's say bass extension at the bottom octave is 15dB higher than that of the rest of the spectrum. That puts you just shy of 130dB.
> 
> To gain more output you would need to add multiples of your high frequency drivers to keep up. But then, where do you put these drivers? Is it even possible? You will probably ruin a coherant soundstage in doing so.
> 
> So, to answer your original question, yes, physics does come into play...
> 
> Ge0


I agree. To the best of my knowledge, most traditional car audio type front stage drivers, setup for SQ (imaging, clarity, etc) won't keep up with a sub section that hits 150 DB's unless you're spending Gigabucks. 

That's where Pro Audio drivers start to come into play. I know of people using midbass drivers designed for live sound applications, same for mids and highs (HF horns) these are easily able to keep up with the output of some monstrous subs.

My question is more toward the limited space inside a vehicle. 

These Pro sound drivers, designed for wide open spaces, or even traditional home/car audio type drivers that are designed with serious output in mind, will they image well inside a vehicle? 

Soundwaves being what they are, (delay, phase etc) does the formula change when switching from low/moderate output SQ types to High power types?

What I'm trying to figure out is simple, I'm just finding it very difficult to explain what that actually is..


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## Ge0

lust4sound said:


> I agree. To the best of my knowledge, most traditional car audio type front stage drivers, setup for SQ (imaging, clarity, etc) won't keep up with a sub section that hits 150 DB's unless you're spending Gigabucks.
> 
> That's where Pro Audio drivers start to come into play. I know of people using midbass drivers designed for live sound applications, same for mids and highs (HF horns) these are easily able to keep up with the output of some monstrous subs.
> 
> My question is more toward the limited space inside a vehicle.
> 
> These Pro sound drivers, designed for wide open spaces, or even traditional home/car audio type drivers that are designed with serious output in mind, will they image well inside a vehicle?
> 
> Soundwaves being what they are, (delay, phase etc) does the formula change when switching from low/moderate output SQ types to High power types?
> 
> What I'm trying to figure out is simple, I'm just finding it very difficult to explain what that actually is..


There is much more information regarding this subject on DIYMA than you'll ever know what to do with. Keep reading. The answers are there to find. If you have questions along the way just ask.

Ge0


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## lust4sound

Ge0 said:


> There is much more information regarding this subject on DIYMA than you'll ever know what to do with. Keep reading. The answers are there to find. If you have questions along the way just ask.
> 
> Ge0


If I sound like I have the slightest clue as to what I'm talking about, I've learned it here. This forum has helped me big time, a lot of you fellas rock


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## Ge0

lust4sound said:


> If I sound like I have the slightest clue as to what I'm talking about, I've learned it here. This forum has helped me big time, a lot of you fellas rock


We all started where you are at one point in time. Now we can discuss we have no clue about more intelligently .

Ge0


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## fej

Business is Business guys .. I agree the whole SPL thing has been done to death across tons of forums and there are many places to find information on it. However this was an "SQ" focused site with a ton of knowledgeable people on it, many of whom have unfortunately left due to the many changes and the herds of "k3wl" CA.com types that have moved over.

I can't fault Ant for trying to drive more traffic to his site, it is his investment. I do wonder however if his desire to grow the site hasn't actually resulted in less traffic.

I know that personally 2+ years ago when I joined I spent several hours a day here, and was pretty consistent with that amount of time online here up until about 6 months ago. Now I would be lucky to see 2 hours a week. I don't go to the general section, I don't answer questions or provide advice anymore ... the din of the ignorant and misinformed is just too loud to bother.

Good luck with the SPL section, I am sure some really informed and new information will be shared here ....


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## cubdenno

fej said:


> Good luck with the SPL section, I am sure some really informed and new information will be shared here ....


Not to push buttons, but how is that different than achieving SQ? Pure SPL:Find frequency that is the loudest in the vehicle. Add woofers and amplification that your budget can handle and the enclosure tuned to that frequency that will fit in your vehicle. Try to deaden car as much as possible.

Pure SQ: Using time alignment, EQ, crossover frequency, proper placement of speakers for desired pathlength and adjusting gains with proper deadening of car to achieve best sound. Adjust as necessary.

Oversimplifying? Maybe a little.

Add in the usual "this speaker sounds better than this speaker" arguements, or the this amp provides a warm quality/the amp is transparent to all/that amp is a copy from an old design. verses "this sub kicks your subs ass" and the many other "I got a bigger crank than you." discussions. How many friends on either side of the fence turn their nose up at something new? I can count more than ten. All who have differing brand favorites who refuse to acknowlage something else.

I joined this forum because of the DIY aspect of it. And more importantly the love of music. It didn't matter if the install was immaculet or wires sticking everywhere and a mess. I have seen some great installs that are incredible. I have seen some that are total wrecks but you know, both types have the owners of them, loving the sound. I have gotten some great advice from this site. I hit it as much as I can. And really though I may disagree with some of you philosophically, I like you all. Even you sarcastic bitter ones. You know who you are!!

The only way you are going to keep this site from evolving the way you want, is to make it a pay only site. That will keep the large part of any sort of SPL crowd out. Of course, odds are that it will kill the site as the number of people willing to fork over a monthly fee will slowly dwindle. Sure you could easily make it a one time fee of a buck. Still a lot of traffic would be lost as the "pay" part would turn them off in loss of conveinance simply because of the mouse clicks it would take to pay. And odds are even you hardcore non SPL types would end up slowly falling away from frequenting the site and what would happen would be the few zealot's pontificating to each other and the occasional new to the site types about how much they know. And since most, if not all of the SQ part is strictly subjective, SPL is truly scientific. Of course thats why I like weight competitions better than Ice skating. There is an actual specific winner as person A lifted 300 kilo's and person B lifted only 290 kilo's. This is the draw that fuels the industry. 

Most of us started as bassheads. Someone or something caused us to change our point of view. What you all need to do is accept the bassheads. Welcome them. Try to influence them as we ourselves were influenced. There is no Car Audio and Electronics, no Car Stereo Review to help spread the words of good sound quality. If someone wants to know how to hit the loudest SPL. Simply state lots o power, lots o woofs. After a while the questions will change as they read and learn.

Just my 2 cents while my ADD addled brain could focus for a minute.

I love an incredible sounding car. I was lucky to hear Richard Clarks GN back in 89-90. I also like my music to be able to be played loud. More importantly my wife wanted it to be played loud. So I compromised. And I love it.


----------



## fej

It was not an argument over which is better, SQ or SPL, it was simply a very well supported opinion that the "SPL" types have entirely different goals and ideas on what they want for their system. I still hear tons of the "all bass" rattle cans usually playing some horrible zero lyrical ability flash in the pan rapper around my area that I get a good chuckle from.

I love my music loud and clean as well ... however BALANCE is what matters most to the SQ crowd, and that is simply not the case for the SPL crowd. Hell I hit 136 with 2 10's back in the day, but I had 2 ID HLCD's with 6" Hart midbasses in the front stage .. I just got a kick out of the SPL number.

DIY or not, the highly intelligent people with tons of experience with SQ focused systems, are gone and are not coming back. This is a loss for everyone that visits the site .. and the "k3wl" people are signing up in droves asking which sub is better than the flea market 8" they have now, and arguing with facts when they are told that their 2 12's could not have possibly hit 150db's with 500 watts to them.

Like I said before, the din of the ignorant and misinformed is just too loud here now, and IMO the battle has been lost.

Hopefully someone with a little cheddar laying around will come up with another small site that will attract the same crowd that made this the most informative and best car audio site on the web.


----------



## Beeblebrox

Wow, lotta hatin' goin on here. How bout let's just make it simple and put a pop up window that confirms you are actually looking at SPL and not SQ. I mean come on, kids, isn't this a learning site? If it isn't just make it an invitation only deal (see myspace) and kick out anyone who who disagrees with you. Come on, we did it all the time in buses before with people who weren't lucky enough to be born the correct color, right? Oh, and before I get all banned for racist comments, you should know I am a man of color. 
Why are we even having this discussion? It's obvious we need another section just for flaming it seems. I love a well-tuned system but let's be honest here, most of us started like these so-called bassheads. Who doesn't like some attention? I know, I know, some of us are grown-ups already but I know looking at some of the topics on here and some contributions by some holier-than-thou die hard SQ folks that make your SPL cousins look at you crazy too. Why waste your time in here trying to make these guys feel stupid when you are the ones who clicked the_ SPL _button. Now how much intelligence did that take?


----------



## Oliver

Good one Bro, [Beeblebrox]

Serious Sound Pressure level requires serious effort !


----------



## XC-C30

REAL SPL vehicles take as much effort in getting it right (for their intended goals). The real SPL'ers are not your ever so typical bassheadzz everbody hates.

BUT unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the real knowleadged SPL guys here, but rather indeed the guys that need an extension for their dicks....

This forum differenciated from what it was all about 

But I guess this forum has become a business like no other. Anthony has the full right to do with this forum as he pleases, since it's his now (from a commercial point of view). Although I would like to think it's actually the visitors' place since without the visitors this forum wouldn't even exist.....

Now if the changes are an attempt to create more traffic, I too am in doubt it will works, since it seems more and more people are leaving than there are coming in. At one point most of the crowd here will be replaced by a new crowd, and it will be just another forum like most others....

Now, if it is pure business it doesn't really matter. But if you have some feeling with what your business is about, you'll probably get bored from seeing your business isn't any different from all the others


----------



## Mike Troll

If the old timers could accept a little change and wipe the sand out of their vagina we could all co-exist. I think its silly that knowledgable people stop answering questions because they have already been covered and I think its even more silly that people take the interent this seriousley. You would think we were closing down your favorite hometown bar and opening a church in its place. 

Change is a constant, grow up, get a rag and wipe the sand out of your vegina and move on. This is not the end of the world.


----------



## 86mr2

You folks *do* realize that if we were to stop arguing SQ vs SPL in this subforum - *it would be empty*!

I can only assume that like visiting the local hooker's stroll, the SPL folks feel dirty visiting here.


----------



## TheDavel

Hmmmmm... I will start a real SPL thread-


----------



## fej

Hey man, I'm not bitter, I am here about 10 minutes a day tops due to all of the changes, the new crowd etc. It is amazing to me that everyone on here hates on the CA.com crowd, and then bitches when people complain when someone calls out the EXACT same people bringing the CA.com ******** here.

The only ***** around here is the people crying about someone calling out the truth. The site has lost many quality contributors due directly to all of the changes and the influx of new people frequenting the site and bringing in the immature and ignorant ******** that this board is flooded with these days.

If you are getting butt hurt, then maybe this applies to you and you are part of the problem. If you are able to accept the facts, and use your common sense, then you have nothing to worry about. 

And I am not talking about "X is better than Y" here at all. Serious SPL people have the same dedication as serious SQ people. However, it is far easier to get better than average SPL than it is to get better than average SQ. Hence the average know it all basshead babbling on about 4 12's in 1.5 cu^3 sounding "phat".

Whatever at this point I am over it, just like I am over this board for anything other than the for sale section and a few remaining friends. 

G'luck


----------



## tard

XC-C30 said:


> BUT unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the real knowleadged SPL guys here, but rather indeed the guys that need an extension for their dicks...


hey! it might be short,....... but it sure is skinny!!!

i am just as versed in SPL as i am SQ. SPL is a pain in the butt, SQ is where my heart is. my guy holding state record for SPL in his class, is also very musical! the lows shake the ground under your feet and the transient snap is painful. only if i could convince him to let me set up a proper front stage....

ohh gosh, lookie there, it grew!.... errr.... i have an extension!


----------



## lust4sound

AWC said:


> Listen up, people. The tides are changing. Ant gave us a line that we can cross or not but at least he gave usa repository for the unwanted. It would otherwise continue to spoil the other portions of the forum that we are all so very happy to ignore...except, of course, what gear to buy.
> 
> What is the problem, here? If they are into SPL they have this subforum and can leave the other subforums alone. However, and this is a very valid point, what will be the outcome of some SPL people coming that will read the long posts and hard questions? What if some SPL people turn out to have some good intput? What if they will help a noob out and let the precious elitist to God's work of ignoring topics because they were discuessed in the '90s and we should damn well know this stuff by now....
> 
> I like my **** REAL ****ING LOUD, OK?!?!? I also want to have those intellectually stimulating conversations that will improve staging, tonality and dynamic impact (read: emotional satisfaction)...where the hell do you find one of those these days?
> 
> IOW, be just as offended as you like, this is Ant's forum. He is probably hoping for some more traffic but desperately wants to keep us happy to. I strongly agree that TheDave gets to fully express his feeling on the matter as do many of you. This is a time of growth. Incontrovertably, all healthy things grow, and absolutley, growth requires change. Change is painful but we are the basis of this communty, not our musical tastes or research habits. It is our mutual chemistry that creates a communal feeling, nonoe of that is expected to be damaged by having an SPL subforum. It will mitigate the damage of their arrival, if damage is an appropriate word.
> 
> We need a greater sense of understanding on the way things are happening before we can judge what needs to happen. Ant could probably use the traffic. How does he do that and keep us happy? Does anybody have a netter idea? If not, than who are we to be a hinderance on his livelihood? Why, then, can we not just make something work? We all agree that Ant has money invested, increased traffic increases money, Ant, arguably, is one of us and deserves that respect. Now he may not be one of the precious few that remeber the "old DIYMA" but he is one of us, has broken the conversational bread and sipped form our emotional wine, bitter and sweet. Why, then, would we wish anything but absolute success for our brethren? If you agree, then you must admit that a compromise is necessary.
> 
> Big words will scare away the would be destroyers. The emotional web that is a collection of personalities that we create can and will govern this body according to the unwritten rules that we follow, thus shunning any newcomers that don't quickly snap to with rigorous fastidity.
> 
> Let's just make this work. It has been stated that I oversimplify things and the theories may be sound but, in reality, it doesn't work....this will. Make the decision....just make it work.
> 
> I was at a car shop the other day and I helped a guy fix his SPL system and while I didn't think it sounded good, it felt good just to help using the info I;'ve gathered. There was a stranger with common ties and I helped him and we had a rewarding conversation. IOW, don't make up your mind to be close minded, you'll surely convince yourself of the rewards of that practice. Don;'t compromise your beliefs either, that's not what I'm saying. The guy asked if he should put another amp, I said I wouldn't..too much SPL, he disagreed, oh well. My position was intact and we still had a decent conversation....that is why we are here....or is it not? In retrospect, it is getting hard to have a decent audio topic these days.
> 
> Lets get into that, then. You the precious elite for whom I have the utmost respect, if you don't want to have a noobish conversation...move on. Don't just repond with an answer that makes people feel stupid. Noobs don't even know where to begin, oftern, and by the time they get a feel for it, they've been called stupid so many times that you gotta wonder...WTF are we here for? Hell you guys act mad that someone would dare to ask a question simply becasue DEEP inthe annals of this forum is a thread that covers about 12% of what they need to know and that there is another 87 threads to go to get the whole truth when one of you can just answer a question. Knowledge is power and many odf you have fooled yourself into believing that you, now, have some sort of power because someone would like to have your help...WTF? Who have you become if that struck a chord with you?
> 
> If that didn't strike a chord then you know. We are bickering to save a forum from the same ruin that we are causing by ostercizing individuals that don't have quite enough techno-savy to be worthy of the great company that so many have abandoned anyway.
> 
> So here comes the flames. whatever, bring it. Remeber this, I believe that we can make it work, we can make it better. It may not be the old DIYMA but if you guys know everything anyway, what are you doing here? What's the point in being here if you won't help a newbie, but know everything there is to know and, therefore, don't care to talk about SQ at all? Why are you here if not to talk? Flame all you want. If you decide to flame because I'm wrong and we really can't fix it, congrats. You're just a puss.
> 
> I hope not to offend. I honestly want to go active within a week or so and absolutely don't feel comfortable asking for help anymore. That is the fact. Sure it may be my fault, I asked questions when I should have searched. Even after weeks of searching it wasn't good enough since so many of you have been searching for decades. It is truly the downfall when people can't ask questions.
> 
> I've said my thang. I'm sorry if I offended any of you but my values insist that I say what I feel is right.


Brilliant! Well said, I stand behind you 100%. 

Brutha, the passionate manner with which you're able to convey your feelings, intelligent, absolute, with just the right amount of spice as to not ruffle feathers. 

Whereas, I'm of the belief that if a person or peoples need to be told to go f$ck themselves, I just get right to it. I bet you go through life collecting many friends as opposed to enemies. You should run for office, I'd vote for you.

I am a Noob as compared to the Elitist types in here. (Although, I now know more than most of the local installers down here, which in itself is quite Ironic, more on that just ahead) 

In here, I have encountered some of what you have so eloquently outlined in the brilliant aforementioned post. Piss &ss, starch collared types in desperate need of a deep probing enema, or perhaps orgasmic release from the family pet (as their wives are apparently not doing it for them anymore.)

However, I have found many in here that have very patiently provided me with very detailed info, held my hand as I baby stepped through the maze of endless info needed to get me where I currently am. There are big things in the works, this Noob will hopefully earn his respect in the near future, (if in fact it all comes together with any degree of success, I have those that took the time in here to thank for it)

I still have much to learn and years to go, I will continue to ask stupid questions (YES I KNOW WHAT A SEARCH BUTTON IS, THANK YOU)

To those that have taken the time to walk me through the ABC's I thank you with all my heart. To those that belittled, jumped all over me, made the tired old "Use the search button" remark, here it is "Eggy" style.

GO F*CK YOURSELVES!!

Respect fellas, thanks for all the 411, keep it coming!

Eggz.


----------



## lust4sound

Mike Troll said:


> If the old timers could accept a little change and wipe the sand out of their vagina we could all co-exist. I think its silly that knowledgable people stop answering questions because they have already been covered and I think its even more silly that people take the interent this seriousley. You would think we were closing down your favorite hometown bar and opening a church in its place.
> 
> Change is a constant, grow up, get a rag and wipe the sand out of your vegina and move on. This is not the end of the world.


LMAO!!

My girl tells me that Motrin really helps with the cramps..

Motrin anyone?


----------



## xlynoz

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I like a mixture of both SPL and SQL


SQL, you're funny even if you didn't mean to be.


----------



## Oliver

I think Alma Gates definately knew how to make a big noise !

Batteries, alternators, reinforced containment of pressure !!!!!


----------



## lust4sound

a$$hole said:


> I think Alma Gates definately knew how to make a big noise !
> 
> Batteries, alternators, reinforced containment of pressure !!!!!


a$$hole, you fly heli's?


----------



## 8675309

185 with only 2 - 6.5 and 20000 watts! LOL


----------



## unpredictableacts

awww SPL ...I remeber those days....when you "THOUGHT" you spent alot on car audio.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

unpredictableacts said:


> awww SPL ...I remeber those days....when you "THOUGHT" you spent alot on car audio.


lol you were the guy whipping up on the big boys with 4 powerbass 12's and a bmf1000 amp


----------



## lust4sound

Hillbilly SQ said:


> lol you were the guy whipping up on the big boys with 4 powerbass 12's and a bmf1000 amp


LMAO!!


----------



## lust4sound

fej said:


> Hey man, I'm not bitter, I am here about 10 minutes a day tops due to all of the changes, the new crowd etc. It is amazing to me that everyone on here hates on the CA.com crowd, and then bitches when people complain when someone calls out the EXACT same people bringing the CA.com ******** here.
> 
> The only ***** around here is the people crying about someone calling out the truth. The site has lost many quality contributors due directly to all of the changes and the influx of new people frequenting the site and bringing in the immature and ignorant ******** that this board is flooded with these days.
> 
> If you are getting butt hurt, then maybe this applies to you and you are part of the problem. If you are able to accept the facts, and use your common sense, then you have nothing to worry about.
> 
> And I am not talking about "X is better than Y" here at all. Serious SPL people have the same dedication as serious SQ people. However, it is far easier to get better than average SPL than it is to get better than average SQ. Hence the average know it all basshead babbling on about 4 12's in 1.5 cu^3 sounding "phat".
> 
> Whatever at this point I am over it, just like I am over this board for anything other than the for sale section and a few remaining friends.
> 
> G'luck


A lot of good points discussed here, this comment and the few others leading up to it.. 

Sad that the "old timers" have left just because of the influx of Newbies carrying on about "this and that."

I really don't see what the big deal is.There's room enough in here for all manner of discussion. 

The Noob that I am, I've been ignored plenty, continue to be ignored by the majority. It's been like that since day one. I stuck around, picked up a lot of useful info, made a few friends.

To the old timers, don't go away. Just continue to ignore people like me and go about your business as usual, dropping in of course with the occasional bitter remark or two. I find it amusing.

To the few very educated, informative folks left in here, keep the info coming. You're helping me build a winning case in the SQ/SQL debate..


----------



## unpredictableacts

lust4sound said:


> LMAO!!


You laugh but true. 

Been several years now, but 4-$35 woofer and a single Bmf1000D.

not ear drum shattering, but i was not afraid of damaging $200-$300 woofer either.

147.6 on a TL in the kicks.


----------



## AWC

lust4sound said:


> Brilliant! Well said, I stand behind you 100%.
> 
> Brutha, the passionate manner with which you're able to convey your feelings, intelligent, absolute, with just the right amount of spice as to not ruffle feathers.
> 
> Whereas, I'm of the belief that if a person or peoples need to be told to go f$ck themselves, I just get right to it. I bet you go through life collecting many friends as opposed to enemies. You should run for office, I'd vote for you.
> 
> I am a Noob as compared to the Elitist types in here. (Although, I now know more than most of the local installers down here, which in itself is quite Ironic, more on that just ahead)
> 
> In here, I have encountered some of what you have so eloquently outlined in the brilliant aforementioned post. Piss &ss, starch collared types in desperate need of a deep probing enema, or perhaps orgasmic release from the family pet (as their wives are apparently not doing it for them anymore.)
> 
> However, I have found many in here that have very patiently provided me with very detailed info, held my hand as I baby stepped through the maze of endless info needed to get me where I currently am. There are big things in the works, this Noob will hopefully earn his respect in the near future, (if in fact it all comes together with any degree of success, I have those that took the time in here to thank for it)
> 
> I still have much to learn and years to go, I will continue to ask stupid questions (YES I KNOW WHAT A SEARCH BUTTON IS, THANK YOU)
> 
> To those that have taken the time to walk me through the ABC's I thank you with all my heart. To those that belittled, jumped all over me, made the tired old "Use the search button" remark, here it is "Eggy" style.
> 
> GO F*CK YOURSELVES!!
> 
> Respect fellas, thanks for all the 411, keep it coming!
> 
> Eggz.


thanks. it had been so long since I posted I had to reread what I had said and find that I agree with myself on this one...this isn't always the case but this time I agree. No I don't make friends cuz I make a speech everytime I meet someone...it gets old


----------



## Fish Chris

*I don't see what the problem is ?!?!*

To me this seems like the "easiest thing" on the whole damn planet to fix....

Just have one forum section called, "DIY SPL", another called, "DYI SQ", and another called, "DIY SQL". 

Problem solved.

Personally, I'm into all aspects of car audio.... both LOUD and CLEAN, and I'd probably spend the most time in the "SQL" section, but the fact is, everyone would then have a choice.

Ya' know, lots of things in life have no easy answers..... But this is just not one of those things.

Hmmmmm,
Peace,
Fish


----------



## Grim0013

They send these 3rd graders in here, and they're all asking questions and don't know how to conjugate verbs or whatever it is they teach kids these days, and I'm like, "Use the ****ing search feature, n00b!"

Seriously though, that's the part I don't get. The hostility towards people asking questions. So long as the questions are reasonable, and they aren't always, I don't see the problem. Education is something that is constantly done over and over. Odds are if someone is posting on DIYMA, they want to learn something. If everyone could learn from looking it up, we wouldn't need teachers, would we? The function of the teacher is to present the knowledge in the specific manner required for the student to grasp the material.

I am relatively new to these forums, and am glad I never looked in this sub-forum until now, because a lot of people are coming off as douche bags in this thread. I came here for the DIY and to learn about proper imaging and dynamics. Am I not welcome? Have I stumbled upon the teacher's lounge?

Really, shouldn't new people asking questions be looked at as a way to influence fresh minds? The character of the forum will only change if it is allowed to. And really, a bunch of "old-timers" getting bitter and acting like douche bags is the fastest way to run things into the ground. You risk the creation of a self-fulfilling prophecy as newbies leave and/or get an attitude in response to the "old-timers" leaving and/or getting an attitude.


Let me just add a little edit here: I am not proposing that people should be spoon-fed or anything. I get as annoyed as anyone when someone asks a stupid question. I'm just saying that people need to keep an open mind and keep the sand out of their vaginas. People deserving of your derision will present themselves regardless. No need to manufacture "enemies."


----------



## lust4sound

kimokalihi said:


> That's exactly what this forum was originally made for. A place for people who don't care for SPL and want to focus on SQ can go. This section doesn't belong.


What about SQL.. To get there, you need knowledge of both SQ and SPL do you not?

SQL not welcome here either?

SQL system will not image as well as a pure SQ system?


----------



## lust4sound

AWC said:


> Listen up, people. The tides are changing. Ant gave us a line that we can cross or not but at least he gave usa repository for the unwanted. It would otherwise continue to spoil the other portions of the forum that we are all so very happy to ignore...except, of course, what gear to buy.
> 
> What is the problem, here? If they are into SPL they have this subforum and can leave the other subforums alone. However, and this is a very valid point, what will be the outcome of some SPL people coming that will read the long posts and hard questions? What if some SPL people turn out to have some good intput? What if they will help a noob out and let the precious elitist to God's work of ignoring topics because they were discuessed in the '90s and we should damn well know this stuff by now....
> 
> I like my **** REAL ****ING LOUD, OK?!?!? I also want to have those intellectually stimulating conversations that will improve staging, tonality and dynamic impact (read: emotional satisfaction)...where the hell do you find one of those these days?
> 
> IOW, be just as offended as you like, this is Ant's forum. He is probably hoping for some more traffic but desperately wants to keep us happy to. I strongly agree that TheDave gets to fully express his feeling on the matter as do many of you. This is a time of growth. Incontrovertably, all healthy things grow, and absolutley, growth requires change. Change is painful but we are the basis of this communty, not our musical tastes or research habits. It is our mutual chemistry that creates a communal feeling, nonoe of that is expected to be damaged by having an SPL subforum. It will mitigate the damage of their arrival, if damage is an appropriate word.
> 
> We need a greater sense of understanding on the way things are happening before we can judge what needs to happen. Ant could probably use the traffic. How does he do that and keep us happy? Does anybody have a netter idea? If not, than who are we to be a hinderance on his livelihood? Why, then, can we not just make something work? We all agree that Ant has money invested, increased traffic increases money, Ant, arguably, is one of us and deserves that respect. Now he may not be one of the precious few that remeber the "old DIYMA" but he is one of us, has broken the conversational bread and sipped form our emotional wine, bitter and sweet. Why, then, would we wish anything but absolute success for our brethren? If you agree, then you must admit that a compromise is necessary.
> 
> Big words will scare away the would be destroyers. The emotional web that is a collection of personalities that we create can and will govern this body according to the unwritten rules that we follow, thus shunning any newcomers that don't quickly snap to with rigorous fastidity.
> 
> Let's just make this work. It has been stated that I oversimplify things and the theories may be sound but, in reality, it doesn't work....this will. Make the decision....just make it work.
> 
> I was at a car shop the other day and I helped a guy fix his SPL system and while I didn't think it sounded good, it felt good just to help using the info I;'ve gathered. There was a stranger with common ties and I helped him and we had a rewarding conversation. IOW, don't make up your mind to be close minded, you'll surely convince yourself of the rewards of that practice. Don;'t compromise your beliefs either, that's not what I'm saying. The guy asked if he should put another amp, I said I wouldn't..too much SPL, he disagreed, oh well. My position was intact and we still had a decent conversation....that is why we are here....or is it not? In retrospect, it is getting hard to have a decent audio topic these days.
> 
> Lets get into that, then. You the precious elite for whom I have the utmost respect, if you don't want to have a noobish conversation...move on. Don't just repond with an answer that makes people feel stupid. Noobs don't even know where to begin, oftern, and by the time they get a feel for it, they've been called stupid so many times that you gotta wonder...WTF are we here for? Hell you guys act mad that someone would dare to ask a question simply becasue DEEP inthe annals of this forum is a thread that covers about 12% of what they need to know and that there is another 87 threads to go to get the whole truth when one of you can just answer a question. Knowledge is power and many odf you have fooled yourself into believing that you, now, have some sort of power because someone would like to have your help...WTF? Who have you become if that struck a chord with you?
> 
> If that didn't strike a chord then you know. We are bickering to save a forum from the same ruin that we are causing by ostercizing individuals that don't have quite enough techno-savy to be worthy of the great company that so many have abandoned anyway.
> 
> So here comes the flames. whatever, bring it. Remeber this, I believe that we can make it work, we can make it better. It may not be the old DIYMA but if you guys know everything anyway, what are you doing here? What's the point in being here if you won't help a newbie, but know everything there is to know and, therefore, don't care to talk about SQ at all? Why are you here if not to talk? Flame all you want. If you decide to flame because I'm wrong and we really can't fix it, congrats. You're just a puss.
> 
> I hope not to offend. I honestly want to go active within a week or so and absolutely don't feel comfortable asking for help anymore. That is the fact. Sure it may be my fault, I asked questions when I should have searched. Even after weeks of searching it wasn't good enough since so many of you have been searching for decades. It is truly the downfall when people can't ask questions.
> 
> I've said my thang. I'm sorry if I offended any of you but my values insist that I say what I feel is right.





MrDave said:


> Tis true. It was one of the few places left to get some good SQ advice. Now you must weed, and weed, and weed. I don't want to be a gardener, daddy.
> 
> By the way, what's SPL?


A big concern is that some of the Old Timers need to weed through crap to get where they want to be..

No need to weed. Just like I've been told by many in here on numerous occasions "use the search button."

I find that statement/reply offensive actually..

Apparently, this site isn't what it was a few years back, it has changed. An unwelcome change to the Old timers in here, but it is change nonetheless.. 

Life is about change and adapting to change. Change, it is sometimes welcome, sometimes it is not.. Adapt or die.. (metaphorically speaking of course) Sucks but it's life..

I understand that some ask questions in a way that may seem ignorant.. The "knee Jerk" response is to "rip that person a new one.."

And to make someone feel inferior because he or she is on a need to know basis? That's inexcusable.. 

The Old timers should feel honored that there are some "young bucks" in here trying to pick their brains.. Instead, some act like it's an episode of "Seinfeld" with their cynicism. 

To those I say "Don't be the SQ Natzi" 
Fork over the info. Share. Pull the corks out of your butts and let the info flow across this worldwide web.... Inquiring minds want to know.. It took you 50 years to acquire the knowledge? BRILLIANT!! Pass it on.. We can't extract it from your "Cold Dead Gray Matter" once you've parted ways with us....

Please accept the fact that the winds of change are reshaping things around here, and please continue to bless us with your years of knowledge and expertise..

It has been very helpful to me.. There was a time when I didn't know how to use delay for imaging, didn't know the impact of a drivers sensitivity (or lack thereof) didn't know that it had an "on axis off axis response...." Didn't know that with a little thought, research and planning, I could put together a Cheapy System with a single 5 channel amp, and destroy what the local shop put together for a friend (after charging him almost 4K with it's 3 amps, top dollar subs and HU.) 

To me, it was all about the impact of the Bass.. (shudders)


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## Fish Chris

To quote myself


> To me this seems like the "easiest thing" on the whole damn planet to fix....
> 
> Just have one forum section called, "DIY SPL", another called, "DYI SQ", and another called, "DIY SQL".
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Personally, I'm into all aspects of car audio.... both LOUD and CLEAN, and I'd probably spend the most time in the "SQL" section, but the fact is, everyone would then have a choice.
> 
> Ya' know, lots of things in life have no easy answers..... But this is just not one of those things.


No arguments ? No agreements ?

Am I missing something here ?

Fish


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## Grim0013

Fish Chris said:


> To quote myself
> 
> No arguments ? No agreements ?
> 
> Am I missing something here ?
> 
> Fish


I think at this point everyone has said their piece and is willing to just let this thread die off.


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## trunks9_us

I am not willing to let it die yet with out my saying I one day will hold world record of spl & funny thing is it will be a sql system winning the spl So I hope you guys are happy knowing I will be # 1 or should I say numero uno.


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## DUMPED

trunks9_us said:


> I am not willing to let it die yet with out my saying I one day will hold world record of spl & funny thing is it will be a sql system winning the spl So I hope you guys are happy knowing I will be # 1 or should I say numero uno.



I assume that was sarcasm 
or where you serious...lol
dare I ask with what gear you'd plan on doing that?

take care


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## numbskull

trunks9_us said:


> I am not willing to let it die yet with out my saying I one day will hold world record of spl & funny thing is it will be a sql system winning the spl So I hope you guys are happy knowing I will be # 1 or should I say numero uno.


I believe you because you said it on the internetz


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## [email protected]

People, spend your money on what ever you can afford and what sounds good to you, you will never please everybody, some people act as if they're helping you pay for it,


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