# How old are these Orion amps?



## The Dude

Just wondering if anyone knows how old these amps and Audiocontrol 2XS are. Thanks.


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## Old Skewl

I would say the stars and moon versions were around 89-90. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.


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## Micksh

Old Skewl said:


> I would say the stars and moon versions were around 89-90. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.


Sound about right, I ran the next gen ones in around 93 I think it was.


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## imjustjason

I had some GX's in 86, so I would go a little earlier and say 85-89ish.


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## audionutz

Yeah GX were about '86. That first-gen beast is approx 87-88 iirc.


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## PPI_GUY

Am I correct in remembering that the GX amps required an external bridging module to sum the channels to mono?
That's a nice 2250SX. It's a few years newer than the GX amps I think.


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## imjustjason

Yep. All first gens needed the 400-BDG, GX's, GS's, HCCA's the lot.

The 2350GX wasn't bridgeable.


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## jtaudioacc

those gx's are a little older, I believe. iirc, the first/earlier version had the printing screened on, not the more durable sticker/label, you see on these.

also, the 2150gx is a newer model, again, iirc. but, just by a little. 

so, i'd put these amps around the late 80's, but definitely not around the time I started, late 85-86.


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## ChrisB

imjustjason said:


> Yep. All first gens needed the 400-BDG, GX's, GS's, HCCA's the lot.
> 
> The 2350GX wasn't bridgeable.


That particular AudioControl crossover negates the need for the 400-BDG on the first gen, bridgeable Orion amplifiers since it can invert the output.


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## imjustjason

You are correct sir.


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## The Dude

Wow, thank you all for the info. These pieces were well looked after, look nearly showroom fresh. Cheers.


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## stills

280gx was my 1st amp...:2thumbsup:


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## DukeDurham

222 sx was my first amp. bought it used in the early 90s tho. I knew it was an older moldel then. it was a stars and moon emblemed amp


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## TrickyRicky

Their old enought to fail thats for sure. But if properly fuctioning you better have a good electrical system.


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## bigdwiz

stills said:


> 280gx was my 1st amp...:2thumbsup:


Mine also!


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## audionutz

LOL believe it or not...MINE TOO!!!
280GX on a pair of MTX Terminator DVC 12s


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## stills

lol i had two terminator eights in a very small sealed box.
later i made a bigger box for them, then orion came out w/ the xtr's and it was on.
got a single xtr 10 in @ .75ft sealed box.
i'm from the counrty so most folks hadn't even heard of orion at the time.

iirc i was in team xtream for a second.


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## The Dude

I remember hearing the XTR subs in the mid 90's at a local shop, very nice.


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## KP

Ther very first GX's had the smaller speaker plugs as well. The SX is the newest of the batch.


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## StockA4

ChrisB said:


> That particular AudioControl crossover negates the need for the 400-BDG on the first gen, bridgeable Orion amplifiers since it can invert the output.


That's what I was going to say. And that 2250 is truly beautiful. That whole rack is beautiful.


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## bigdwiz

ChrisB said:


> That particular AudioControl crossover negates the need for the 400-BDG on the first gen, bridgeable Orion amplifiers since it can invert the output.


I have a couple of early 2XS AudioControl X-overs...how do I know if they are the one's you guys talk about here? What a great selling point if they will also perform as 400BDG units!


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## The Dude

StockA4 said:


> That's what I was going to say. And that 2250 is truly beautiful. That whole rack is beautiful.


Nothing as beautiful as a nice rack.... PM me if you are interested in some or all of this gear. Going to be bench testing it all soon, as it has been in storage for a while. Cheers.


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## StockA4

If I was to get anything, it would be the SX. But I probably can't afford it right now.

Bigdwiz, I know the other guys will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 2, 3, and 4xs were capable of being used in place of the 400-BDG. I have a 4xs and have been told it would work as such. I've never used it for that, but that's what I was told.


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## ChrisB

bigdwiz said:


> I have a couple of early 2XS AudioControl X-overs...how do I know if they are the one's you guys talk about here? What a great selling point if they will also perform as 400BDG units!


They will have "Invert" and "normal" under the "mono & bridging" label on the crossover itself. If it doesn't have "Invert" you can't substitute it for the 400BDG.


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## StockA4

Like so. Thanks ChrisB.


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## bigdwiz

Thanks guys, sorry to thread jack, but this is important for those (like me) who didn't know


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## imjustjason

Perry Babin has an invert circuit you can build yourself. I've even seen one that can fit into the DIN plug.


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## dman

Ok, i will shed some light on this for you guys... All my years of a Orion dealer, lets see what i can remember..

1st gen Orions are 86'-91' - (GX) includes 220gx, 240gx, 280gx, 2150gx, 4100gx, 2350gx, GS100, GS1000, 225hcca, 250hcca, 425hcca (the 2350gx was not bridgeable) first gen, orion amps also had the STAR/MOON logo

2nd gen Orions are 92'-96' - They took the star out and used the MOON logo only - (SX) digital reference, includes 222sx, 230sx, 250sx, 275sx, 2125sx, 2150sx, 2250sx (aka the BEAST), 225hcca, 250hcca, 2100hcca, GS100, GS300, GS500

3rd gen. Orions are 97'-99 -(XTR) pop tops 450xtr, 475xtr, 425hcca, 250xtr, 275xtr, 2150xtr, 225hcca, 250hcca , also included the concept series, 97.3 and 97.1

4th gen Orions are 2000-up with a G4 on them, when Orion started using the Master/Copy mode to link amps..

we stopped carrying after the G4 came out...

Hope some of this helped you out..


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## bigdwiz

> 2nd gen Orions are 92'-96' - They took the star out and used the MOON logo only - (SX) digital reference, includes 222sx, 230sx, 250sx, 275sx, 2125sx, 2150sx, 2250sx (aka the BEAST), 225hcca, 250hcca, 2100hcca, GS100, GS300, GS500


Here is a 1st gen 222sx with Moon & Stars logo (IJJ can confirm, but I believe 1990 or 1991)...











Also, the HCCA's didn't follow along w/ the same "gen" as the others and it has always confused me:

*1st gen* - "Moon & Stars" - not bridgeable
*2nd gen *- "Digital Reference" - no x-over
*3rd gen *- "Competition Amp/X-over" aka "Pop Top" - had x-over (chip) and no more wiring harness
*4th gen* - "R" series - adjustable x-overs
*5th gen* - "G4" last of the made in the USA
*6th gen* - "G5" (nuf said)

^^^ Can any Orion expert explain the gen nomenclature for the HCCA's? ^^^


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## ChrisB

Not all G4s were made in the USA....

This is what my HCCA 250G4 said on the outside:









This was on the circuit board:









I was told that the G4 was a transitional period where Orion was moving towards their Korean build house, therefore some were made in the USA and others had circuit boards made overseas and slapped into a heat sink here.

EDIT: I also may have learned why Orion had so many problems with the G5 amplifiers when I tested the output on my HCCA 225 G5. The measured output on that amplifier was 73 watts RMS per channel just prior to clipping into a 4 ohm stereo load. I concluded that they had to up rail voltage to achieve that amount of 4 ohm power. Now imagine what happens when you run it at 1 ohm mono or 1/2 ohm stereo. In other words, they tried to have their cake (4 ohm stereo power) and eat it too (1 ohm mono power) and turned their amplifiers into a fire hazard in that process.


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## benny

that 225 makes a decent tweeter amp though


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## imjustjason

Stopped caring after the pop top series.


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## bigdwiz

^^ True dat, I should've clarified in my statement, I meant the early G4 models were the last of the "made in the USA".


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## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

I know the 2350GX can not be ran in mono but can it be ran in 2ohm stereo like a 2150?
I don't think so but anyone have some experience on this or can school me on this info?
I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!


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## ChrisB

OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT said:


> I know the 2350GX can not be ran in mono but can it be ran in 2ohm stereo like a 2150?
> I don't think so but anyone have some experience on this or can school me on this info?
> I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!


According to the manual I have on hand, it says NOT to run the 2350 less than 4 ohms. In fact, it is rated 4 to 16 ohms per channel.

PM your email address to me and I will send you a copy of it.


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## dman

ALL the GX series amps are recommended not to run below 4 ohms stereo...but we all know we run them 2 ohm all day long... The 2350 was a different kind of amp.. it doesnt even accept the 400bdg, so i prob. would not run it under 4 ohms stereo


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## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

dman said:


> ALL the GX series amps are recommended not to run below 4 ohms stereo...but we all know we run them 2 ohm all day long... The 2350 was a different kind of amp.. it doesnt even accept the 400bdg, so i prob. would not run it under 4 ohms stereo


I saw that on the general PDF gen.1 list said 4ohm but I know i've and others have ran 2ohm all day on GX amps?.Especially when the smaller HCCA's say 1/2 ohm.Yes the 2 ohm is the juice!Especially on the 2150's!
Thank You for the reco on the 2350GX!4 ohm's and it see's no less...I know it's a kind of a dual mono block but wasn't sure about 2ohm stereo like a PPI 2300M can do.

Thank You!


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## orion250

I would have to agree with everyone else around 88-91'. I have many of these 1st & 2nd generation Orion amps. Three of these 2150's, a 425 HCCA, two 250 HCCA's, about 12 225 HCCA's, a few 400 BDG's, a couple 200 CRX's & 300 CRX's ( Orion electronic crossovers) some GX gold series heatsinks and an Orion 300 PRQ preamp. Contact Bernie Boland on facebook (BWBOLAND) for more info or repairs as he used to be co-owner and VP of Orion Industries in the 90's and he designed the Orion HCCA series amps.


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## The Dude

Hey orion250, thanks for the info. Tested out the 2250 tonight, that thing rocks. I will be testing the GX's soon also.


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## StockA4

orion250 said:


> I would have to agree with everyone else around 88-91'. I have many of these 1st & 2nd generation Orion amps. Three of these 2150's, a 425 HCCA, two 250 HCCA's, about 12 225 HCCA's, a few 400 BDG's, a couple 200 CRX's & 300 CRX's ( Orion electronic crossovers) some GX gold series heatsinks and an Orion 300 PRQ preamp. Contact Bernie Boland on facebook (BWBOLAND) for more info or repairs as he used to be co-owner and VP of Orion Industries in the 90's and he designed the Orion HCCA series amps.


Can you p/m me with a little more info about Bernie? There's quite a few of them on facebook. And I'm looking for an amp tech for some of my Orion's.

Thank you,

Jason


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## The Dude

StockA4 said:


> Can you p/m me with a little more info about Bernie? There's quite a few of them on facebook. And I'm looking for an amp tech for some of my Orion's.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Jason


Here you go, mentions being the co-owner of Orion from 84-90 on his profile:

Bernie Boland | Facebook


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## StockA4

The Dude said:


> Here you go, mentions being the co-owner of Orion from 84-90 on his profile:
> 
> Bernie Boland | Facebook


Psh! What? I knew that! (digs toe in dirt...feels foolish) Thanks man.


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## StockA4

I actually came up with this guy and read his profile! I missed the Orion references. I probably shouldn't be saying this out loud.

Thanks again, Dude!


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## The Dude

StockA4 said:


> I actually came up with this guy and read his profile! I missed the Orion references. I probably shouldn't be saying this out loud.
> 
> Thanks again, Dude!


Haha, no worries. Glad to help.


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## orion250

If anyone needs any owners manuals from any of the Orion amps or accessories even the older stuff, you can download copies in PDF format from DEI's (Direct Electronics Inc.) website. I forget where on their site they are located, but I have downloaded several manuals for my old Orion amps and 400 BDG bridging module.

PS. He's the right Bernie. He will be repairing/modifying some of my old Orion amps in a week or so.


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## KP

The 2350GX is a dual mono. Two separate amps on one long board.

The 2200GX was also a dual mono but two separate boards. They used the same size heat sink.


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## Godsmack

dman said:


> Ok, i will shed some light on this for you guys... All my years of a Orion dealer, lets see what i can remember..
> 
> 1st gen Orions are 86'-91' - (GX) includes 220gx, 240gx, 280gx, 2150gx, 4100gx, 2350gx, GS100, GS1000, 225hcca, 250hcca, 425hcca (the 2350gx was not bridgeable) first gen, orion amps also had the STAR/MOON logo
> 
> 2nd gen Orions are 92'-96' - They took the star out and used the MOON logo only - (SX) digital reference, includes 222sx, 230sx, 250sx, 275sx, 2125sx, 2150sx, 2250sx (aka the BEAST), 225hcca, 250hcca, 2100hcca, GS100, GS300, GS500
> 
> 3rd gen. Orions are 97'-99 -(XTR) pop tops 450xtr, 475xtr, 425hcca, 250xtr, 275xtr, 2150xtr, 225hcca, 250hcca , also included the concept series, 97.3 and 97.1
> 
> 4th gen Orions are 2000-up with a G4 on them, when Orion started using the Master/Copy mode to link amps..
> 
> we stopped carrying after the G4 came out...
> 
> Hope some of this helped you out..




Can you please explain why does this 250 sx have the moon and star? If the 250sx wasn't till second gen and that only had the moon?

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

J


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## dman

Godsmack said:


> Can you please explain why does this 250 sx have the moon and star? If the 250sx wasn't till second gen and that only had the moon?
> 
> eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
> 
> J


I assume a early version of the SX.. when we used to order some heat sinks we kept in stock, some had the star, and some didnt... We also got 1 at one point that had the thicker black sticker on it, so again i can only assume it was a early version.., but same amp,


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## Godsmack

Gotcha.

Money well spent then?


J


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## dman

Godsmack said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> Money well spent then?
> 
> 
> J


at the price it is right now, its a great deal.. why not see if he will do some kind of buy it now at a good price.


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## Godsmack

Lol the 71 bucks is already done and over with.


J


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## dman

Godsmack said:


> Lol the 71 bucks is already done and over with.
> 
> 
> J


lol, i didnt notice that, good buy.... not sure what he had stated at what ohm etc... but amp is 50x2 @ 4, 100x1 @ 2 ohm, and 400x1 @ 4 ohm mono.. dont go below 4 ohm mono or you will fry it... but it will do more power in any of the listed specs i gave you, as those are 12v ratings.. and they were under rated anyway...


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## Godsmack

I honestly just picked it up because of the price. Kinda like the punch 45 I just got in.


I may use it for my Firebird if I can't get a good set of PPI Audio Art Amps.


J


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## mitchyz250f

The 4100GX is 'basically' two 280GX's in one heat sink on a single board. When you look at the board it is just like 2 separate amps although not exactly like the 280GX. 

The 2350GX is a 4100GX that has been bridged from 4 channels to 2 channels, and that is why it cannot be bridged two a single channel.

Also, I have been using the 'din' bridging circuit the Perry describes in the DIYAudio thread for the last 4 years and it works perfectly. The one modification I made to the circuit was that I potted the circcuit inside the din after it was completed.

Circut for Bridging Orion GX amps? - diyAudio


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## scoobysmak

The Dude said:


> Here you go, mentions being the co-owner of Orion from 84-90 on his profile:
> 
> Bernie Boland | Facebook


I know this is an old thread but just in case I have an amp fail, does anyone know how to contact him not using facebook. I do not have a FB account.


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## The Dude

scoobysmak said:


> I know this is an old thread but just in case I have an amp fail, does anyone know how to contact him not using facebook. I do not have a FB account.


Messaged him on Facebook for you, will see if he gets back to me.


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## scoobysmak

The Dude said:


> Messaged him on Facebook for you, will see if he gets back to me.


I was looking for the "like button" or a "thanks" button but have not found it yet so uh...Thanks.

Edit..I am going to assume its the Rep Power that I was looking for, in this case done.


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## The Dude

Glad to help, will update you if I hear back.


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## thehatedguy

Any repair center should be able to fix the amps.

Freemans Stereo Video has a great repair center who can fix nearly anything. And Landis Tech over here is good too.

There are others, but I know those two guys from years back.


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