# Help with best sound quality for Audi install



## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Which will yield better sound quality with the OEM head unit (Audi A4)?
1. concert head unit to oem amp to high level inputs of helix dsp to aftermarket amps and speakers.
2. multimedia head unit (most bus) digital signal to mobridge da3 to aftermarket amps and speakers. 

It would seem that option 2 would be easier to setup since the input signal to the mobridge would be digital with no eq applied.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

option 2, by far imo.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

So if given the choice of a vehicle in which you must keep the oem head unit, everyone would prefer the most bus digital output vice tapping into the speaker high out for the best sound quality?
I want to know so I can pick the right vehicle options for my upgrade.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

What year A4?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> Which will yield better sound quality with the OEM head unit (Audi A4)?
> 1. concert head unit to oem amp to high level inputs of helix dsp to aftermarket amps and speakers.
> 2. multimedia head unit (most bus) digital signal to mobridge da3 to aftermarket amps and speakers.
> 
> It would seem that option 2 would be easier to setup since the input signal to the mobridge would be digital with no eq applied.


Option 2 - without question.

The Helix is a fine DSP (perhaps the best on the market), but tapping into a clean flat signal with a mObridge, will ultimately yield the best results. 

As mentioned, the Helix is an amazing unit, but the built-in DSP on the mObridge DA3 has everything you'll need.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay, assuming I go with the mobridge, which A4(2014) setup is easiest for an install?
1) multimedia head unit with nav and standard speaker system 
2) multimedia head unit with nav and B&O speaker system

I believe I read that the mobridge da3 can be installed in place of the B&O amp on the most bus. 
This seems to be the easiest option although not the cheapest, since I will have to pay more for an A4 with the B&O system which I will then replace.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

jimmydee said:


> Option 2 - without question.
> 
> The Helix is a fine DSP (perhaps the best on the market), but tapping into a clean flat signal with a mObridge, will ultimately yield the best results.
> 
> As mentioned, the Helix is an amazing unit, but the built-in DSP on the mObridge DA3 has everything you'll need.


Okay, assuming I go with the mobridge, which A4(2014) setup is easiest for an install?
1) multimedia head unit with nav and standard Speaker system 
2) multimedia head unit with nav and B&O Speaker system

I believe I read that the mobridge da3 can be installed in place of the B&O amp on the most bus. 
This seems to be the easiest option although not the cheapest, since I will have to pay more for an A4 with the B&O system which I will then replace.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> Okay, assuming I go with the mobridge, which A4(2014) setup is easiest for an install?
> 1) multimedia head unit with nav and standard speaker system
> 2) multimedia head unit with nav and B&O speaker system
> 
> ...


Replacing a factory B&O amplifier with a mObridge DA3 is definitely the easier option.
The mObridge simply replaces the factory amplifier (which is located behind the rear drivers-side wheel well). 

I am not 100% sure about the 'basic' Audi system... I have a hunch it is a bit more difficult, since there isn't a separate amplifier. 
I believe the MOST signal needs to be tapped at the head-unit. 

I've owned a couple Audi's (2012 S4, and a 2015 SQ5), both of these vehicles have identical systems to what your 2014 A4 would have.
In both cases I ordered them with B&O, purely for the reason that the audio swap was easier. 
I realize it's extra money up-front, but it was worth it to me.

If you have a few hundred extra (I think it's about an extra $1K for an A4), then get the B&O upgrade. It'll save you a lot of time... 
Plus the B&O speaker grilles look WAYYY cooler... not a thousand bucks cooler, but that's not the point.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Here's a link to my current build (SQ5). It's virtually identical to my previous S4 build.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/277841-audi-sq-build-wish-id-taken-more-pics.html



Here's a few others, that have done A7 and S6 builds. 
I believe both of them tapped into the basic Bose system (at the back of the head unit). 
You could ask Hugg727 how he did his (he has the A7):

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/186993-2014-audi-a7.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/285153-2103-audi-s6-diy-install.html


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Sounds like the Mobridge DA3 is the way to go.
I plan on running the DA3 to a JL audio HD amp.
Is it okay/recommended to run the amp output to the existing audi speaker wiring to avoid altering molex connectors in the doors?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> Is it okay/recommended to run the amp output to the existing audi speaker wiring to avoid altering molex connectors in the doors?


In my previous car (the S4), I used the factory speaker wiring. To be honest, it's pretty good quality 16 gauge twisted wire. Worked fine. Sounded fine.

For this build (the SQ5), I went balls-out and ran new wiring throughout the system. It looks cool. It was a TON of work. And I am happy I did it. But it doesn't sound any better...

Short answer: The factory Audi speaker wire will be fine.

How are you planning to configure your sysem? 
ie. active 2-way front? 3-way? rear fill? is there a sub?
(the reason I ask, is because I may be able to help you identify the factory wiring for each location)


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

1. Do not get the Concert audio. Get something with MOST fiber optics. The B&O uses MOST, I believe.


2. Personally, I would recommend the mObirgde DA1 and an aftermarket processor like the Helix. The mObridge DA3 processor is not as powerful as a Helix, Helix Pro or Arc PS8.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

I plan on using my current amps from my Jetta:
A JL HD600/4 to the Audi front speakers which will be Focal flax 3-way (passive with mids in the dash and tweeters in the sail) and to the rear fill which will be Focal flax 2-way (passive). 
A JL HD750/1 to a JL 10W7 prowedge subwoofer in a sealed enclosure.

I was wondering if there is a passive crossover installed on the fronts/rears of the A4 which would need to be removed?
If you leave the center channel and rear deck speakers disconnected, will the bluetooth hands free phone still work (i.e. is the center channel required)?
Rear fill in doors or rear deck?


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## bilbo6209 (Oct 12, 2015)

In order to get the MoST you need to get Nav at a minimum, or the B&O... If you are looking going to replace speakers don't spend the money on the B&O! 

The Concert radio (like in my 2012 a5) then you need to use the high level outputs and use something like the JL Fix to clean up the signal.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> I plan on using my current amps from my Jetta:
> A JL HD600/4 to the Audi front speakers which will be Focal flax 3-way (passive with mids in the dash and tweeters in the sail) and to the rear fill which will be Focal flax 2-way (passive).
> A JL HD750/1 to a JL 10W7 prowedge subwoofer in a sealed enclosure.
> 
> ...


If you are going to run 3-way passive, then I would suggest mounting the passive cross-overs somewhere under the dash (not in the doors). Just because it's easier to get at, if you need to make adjustments.

If I recall correctly, the factory wiring has the tweeter and the dash mounted mid on the same channel (same wire), so you will need to run a new cable from the Focal cross-over up to the Flax mid in the dash. You could tap into the other two factory cables for the 6.5" and tweeter in the door.

The rear doors also only have one cable that runs into them, and is split between the two stock speakers. For the rears, you would mount the Focal cross-over inside the door, and then feed your flax components.

If I was you, I'd run a new 14awg cable from your amp to each passive cross-over (at least the front ones). Just because those 3-way cross-overs will draw a fair bit of current once the volume is cranked up. Running new cables would be fairly simple. From the cross-over, you could use the factory cables to run into each door.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Rear fill in the rear doors or rear deck? Thinking focal flax 6.5" 2-way. Not sure rear deck will easily fit 6.5" in the A4.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Rear fill technically only need to play from about 200 Hz to 2,000 Hz. So a smaller speaker is fine. Don't need a 6.5" unless you're hell bent on it.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Rear fill in the rear doors or rear deck?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I say rear deck, personally.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

I could go with focal flax 5" 2-way in the deck but not sure if they will fit easily in the deck of the A4.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Salesman today trying to push me off the Mobridge DA3 and onto the Audison bit DMI and bit 10 combined for the same price as the DA3. 
He was also pushing Hertz Mille speaker line over the Focal flax speakers. 
Obviously a Hertz/Audison dealer. 
Considering the bit DMI with a Helix DSP(not the pro) instead of DA3.
Still prefer Focal speakers since I have owned them (polyglass series) and have been very happy with the sound quality.
Any suggestions?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> Rear fill in the rear doors or rear deck? Thinking focal flax 6.5" 2-way. Not sure rear deck will easily fit 6.5" in the A4.


Put the 6.5" in the rear doors... you won't (easily) be able to mount them in the rear deck.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

The Audison Bit Ten is a very basic processor. It works well but only has graphic EQ. No parametric.

The Mobridge DA3 has parametric EQ which is more powerful, however your installer has probably never used one before will have little to no experience with how to tune it.

The Helix DSP is better than either the Audison or the DA3.

Personally, I use a mobridge dA1 and a Helix.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> Salesman today trying to push me off the Mobridge DA3 and onto the Audison bit DMI and bit 10 combined for the same price as the DA3.
> He was also pushing Hertz Mille speaker line over the Focal flax speakers.
> Obviously a Hertz/Audison dealer.
> Considering the bit DMI with a Helix DSP(not the pro) instead of DA3.
> ...


For what you are trying to accomplish, I would recommend sticking with the DA3. 
The reasons are:
1. The DA3 is quite a bit more powerful than the bit10. The processing speed is way faster in the DA3. 
2. Start-up time (the DA3 starts up faster than a separate DA1 and DSP).
3. The bit10 is a very basic unit, and it only has 5 output channels. This will work for your immediate needs, but if you ever want to upgrade, or try an active system in the future, you'll need to replace the bit10.
4. The DA3 has the ability to control the front and rear channels (fade) - whereas the DA1 (or bit DMI) only has a 2-channel stereo output.
5. The DA3 can be used as a DA1, with basic Toslink fiber output (channels 1&2), if you ever decide you want to really expand your system.

Don't let the salesman sucker you into buying a bitDMI and a bit10... not for the same amount of money... this combo is giving you considerably less than a DA3. 

With regards to the speakers... this is totally up to you. Get the ones that sound the best to you. The Milles are nice speakers, but personally, I'd go with the Focals (just personal sound preference). 
Every salesman is going to tell you that his brand is the best...


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> The Audison Bit Ten is a very basic processor. It works well but only has graphic EQ. No parametric.
> 
> The Mobridge DA3 has parametric EQ which is more powerful, however your installer has probably never used one before will have little to no experience with how to tune it.
> 
> ...



Subter, there is no denying that your system is amazing (one of the best I've seen)... but in this case, the OP is putting together a passive front and passive rear system. There is no benefit for him to get a DSP-Pro.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> Subter, there is no denying that your system is amazing (one of the best I've seen)... but in this case, the OP is putting together a passive front and passive rear system. There is no benefit for him to get a DSP-Pro.




He was saying the Helix DSP not the Pro.

Still, the Helix is a great DSP.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> He was saying the Helix DSP not the Pro.
> 
> Still, the Helix is a great DSP.
> 
> ...


No argument from me... the basic Helix is an excellent DSP, and the Pro is probably the best unit currently available. 

I'm just looking this from a _'what's practical'_ perspective. 
The OP is planning on using passive crossovers for his system. 
In this case, there is nothing that a separate DSP can add that would be of benefit (not even a DSP Pro).


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Finally got my used 2014 Audi A4 premium plus with nav and B&O system.
Thought I may be able to live with B&O, but after 2 weeks with B&O, I missed my old sound system.
So I went to local audio store and scheduled a new install.
I will be using my old JL amps (HD 600/4 and HD 750/1) and my old sub (JL 10W7). 
The store will be supplying new Focal flax 3ways for front and 2ways for rear doors along with dynomat. They will use the Mobridge DA3 to replace the B&O amp.
So I will be giving up the rear deck and center channel speakers. Are there any issues with not having these speakers (ie will backup sensor warning alert work)?
Installer implied that crossovers for B&O system were part of the B&O amp. Is this true? 
Are there separate speaker wires running to all 14 B&O speakers from the B&O amp?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Parking sensors in my 2013 S6 are separate from audio system.

If you have a mobridge then it's inconsequential how the B&O amp and speakers work because they will be disabled. 


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Check out B8 Aftermarket Sound System Pictures
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...are_tid=370286&share_fid=17679&share_type=the 

And 

Bang & Olufsen Subwoofer Upgrade B&O
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=620737&share_fid=17679&share_type=t


Invaluable resources for B8 installation. 


Sent from my


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> I will be giving up the rear deck and center channel speakers. Are there any issues with not having these speakers (ie will backup sensor warning alert work)?


Everything will work fine. 



nuke1 said:


> Installer implied that crossovers for B&O system were part of the B&O amp. Is this true?


Yes this is true, but since you're replacing the amp with a mObridge DA3, you have nothing to worry about. Just set the DA3 for a flat/full output (I'm assuming your Flax setup will be passive?)



nuke1 said:


> Are there separate speaker wires running to all 14 B&O speakers from the B&O amp?


For the most part... yes.

The rear doors have only one set of wires for each door, but that won't be an issue if you mount the passive crossover inside each door.

The front doors have two sets per door (one for the woofer and one for the tweeter). In actuality, the tweeter and the small dash mounted mid use the same channel/wire from the amp, and then it is split near the door (in the toe-kick area). They use a small capacitor on the tweeter to filter the lower frequency.

For the front setup, tell your installer to use either of the two sets of factory wires, from the rear amp to the front passive crossover. I think they are all twisted 16 gauge, if I recall correctly.

IMPORTANT: Mount the passive crossovers somewhere under the dash, or in the toe-kick area (not in the front door). From the passive, he can use the two sets of factory wires into the door, for the tweeter and the woofer. He will need to fish a separate wire from the passive crossover up through the dash to run the 3" mid. This is the easiest way to do it (trust me).


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

What Jimmy said ☝


Sent from


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Hey, Jimmy. If you had to do it all over again, would you skip using your own speaker wiring and soldering the molex connectors the doors ? I'm paying an installer to do it and bought the molex connectors you linked from your build for them to use, but if it's just going to add unnecessary labor cost I might just forgo. Although I do like the fact that I won't have to alter much of the wiring going the route you pursued though. 


Sent from


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Flyhogz said:


> Hey, Jimmy. If you had to do it all over again, would you skip using your own speaker wiring and soldering the molex connectors the doors ? I'm paying an installer to do it and bought the molex connectors you linked from your build for them to use, but if it's just going to add unnecessary labor cost I might just forgo. Although I do like the fact that I won't have to alter much of the wiring going the route you pursued though.
> 
> 
> Sent from


Tough call...

From a sound quality perspective, I doubt it made any difference at all. On my previous vehicle (2012 S4), I used all factory wiring and it sounded totally fine. Audi uses 16awg twisted wire for their speakers. It's pretty good. I used both factory runs to the front doors and had a 2-way Active front (didn't use the 3" dash mid). I also used the factory wires to the rear doors and had a passive rear 2-way. Basically, exactly what I have right now in my SQ5, except I ran my own wires for this setup.

Now... from an 'obsessive/compulsive' perspective; I have no regrets on running my own speaker cable and putting in my own Molex pins. It was a HUGE amount of extra labour, but I sleep well at night knowing it's done... and never wondering: _"what if...?"_


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

OP. You can pass this onto your installer. I can't remember what the wire colors are, for the front mid/tweeter, but below are the wire colors, from the B&O amp, for the rest of the speakers. It should save him at least an hour of troubleshooting... there will only be two sets of wires leftover, which will be the front mid/tweet for each side.

Wire Function Colour

12V DC + White/red
12V DC - Black

Left Front + Red/blue
Left Front - Brown/blue

Right Front + Red/yellow
Right Front - Brown/yellow

Left Rear + Red/violet
Left Rear - Brown/violet

Right Rear + White/green
Right Rear - Blue/green

Center Channel + Blue/white
Center Channel - Black/white

Subwoofer + White/yellow
Subwoofer - Blue/yellow


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

A $30 subscription to Audi Erwin is worth it. 24 hours to download all repair documents by vin number. 


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

The installer made it sound like he would be wiring the Focal passive crossovers in the trunk and splicing into the existing speaker wire. 
However, I don't think this is possible unless there are separate speaker wire pairs to all 4 woofers, all 4 tweeters and 2 mids at the B&O amp output in the trunk.
Based on Jimmydee's post, the wiring will not allow passive crossover install in the trunk.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Get a wire diagram from Audi Erwin. It will answer that for you.


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## j4gates (Jan 1, 2016)

It's possible...I have 14 pairs coming off the factory amp in my Lincoln. Definitely purchase the wiring diagrams if you need to.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Downloaded wiring diagrams from Audi Erwin.
Drawings confirmed what jimmydee said:
1 wire pair to each rear door and splits once inside door to the tweeter and woofer. I assume this is a full range signal with filtering to the tweeter (no capacitor shown on the drawing but must be something in line with tweeter).
2 wire pairs to each front door. 1 runs straight to the door woofer. The other splits near the front door and runs to the midrange in the dash and into the front door to the tweeter (again no in line cap shown on drawing).
Sub, center, and both rear deck mids all have dedicated wire pairs.
So there are 10 total speaker wire pairs.
It does appear that the Focal crossovers can not be trunk mounted unless additional wire pairs are run (1 into each rear door which could be difficult and 1 to the front dash for each midrange). 
It would seem easier and less time consuming to install rear speaker crossovers in the doors and front speaker crossovers in the front footwell.
Any thoughts on which is best?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> It would seem easier and less time consuming to install rear speaker crossovers in the doors and front speaker crossovers in the front footwell.


I think this is what I said to do initially... if it was unclear, then absolutely do this.

The only extra piece of wire the installer will need to run, is a few feet from the front crossover to the 3" dash mid.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Is there space in the rear door for this crossover which looks fairly large?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

nuke1 said:


> Is there space in the rear door for this crossover which looks fairly large?


I fit a 2-way Focal (Polyglass) crossover in the rear doors, without any trouble at all... can't imagine you'll have trouble finding space for the 3-way.


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Couple of questions on the DA3.
Looks like there is a direct pass through button now in the software which I assume would be selected for a passive setup. 
Is this correct, since it is not referenced in the user manual?
Also which, if any, is better for crossing over sub and mains:
1. Use JL HD amps built in crossovers (they recommend using 24db Linkwitz
setting on the amp at 85hz for a 10W7 in a sealed enclosure)
2. Use the DA3 crossover for the mains to subwoofer (but what frequency/slope/type?)


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## nuke1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Got my car back today after install.
Focal flax speakers sound incredible!
Lots of midbass, nice upgrade from Focal polyglass I had in my Jetta and huge upgrade from the stock B&O system on my Audi.
Very clear and detailed sound with great imaging.
Installer mounted crossovers for the front 3-way speakers and the Mobridge DA3 in the trunk where the stock amp was located. He ran extra wires to the front to feed the dash mounted midrange speakers. 
To avoid trying to run extra wires into the rear doors, he installed the rear crossover in the door but had to remove the crossover from its enclosure due to lack of space in the rear doors of the A4.
While the DA3 did reduce my head unit delay options from 4 to 2, it added subwoofer level control to the head unit, awesome job Mobridge!
I have yet to tweak the DA3 settings via laptop but I am very impressed with sound quality of the system as installed. Shout out to ABT Electronics in Chicago area for a great job!


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