# Need opinion on my boat stereo



## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

Hey guys, I'm re-posting this at DIYMA, hopefully I can get some input. I've posted this thread on 3 different audio forums. Over the past week, the only respsone I've got has been "you're on a boat!"


I was hoping to get some help on speaker placement in my boat. This is going to be long, but any opinions would be GREATLY appreciated.

I have 4 speakers now and will be installing 4 more, and 1 or 2 subwoofers, but I need some opinions. We normally drive to the cove, shut the engine off and hang out, so the majority of listening will be while parked.

I'll have 8 Exile SX65C 6.5" speakers powered by an Exile X800.4. 100w x 8 - 2ohm. I'm just not quite sure where the optimal location for the additional 4 speakers will be. I know it's an open air environment but I don't want to cut holes in my boat and end up regretting picking the location.


In the pictures below, the red arrows indicate where the current 4 speakers are mounted. The green arrows indicate where I could mount the additional 4. I included different pictures to show the different angles. Each option I indicate a location. In the end, I need to decide on any combination of 2 locations to accommodate 4 additional speakers.

(Note; the only picture of my actual boat is the 3rd one, I downloaded the others as I don't have good pics of the interior, but identical boat)

In this picture I could put 1 speaker in location 1, which I see as a good location. An additional 2 speakers could be mounted next to the front seats in location 2. My only concern with location 2 is that the driver and passenger will be blocking the speaker while we're underway, however, it seems to be an optimal mid cabin location while we're parked.








In this picture I show the 2 speakers already installed (red) in the front bow which are facing each other. I think an additional speaker in the middle front bow (the adjacent Location 1 option) would be a good location, but was curious if I'd have sound cancellation issues because of the other 2 already installed. I could mount an additional 2 speakers in Location 3 on the passenger and driver console, but my only concern is how close they'd be to each other. You can't really tell in the pic, but they'd actually be closer together than the 2 already installed in the front bow.








This is just another angle of Locations 1 and 3.








This picture shows another angle of location 2, and an additional possible location in the rear, behind the seats. I like this location, but most of the sound would be in the back and nothing mid cabin, as I already have 2 speakers under the bench seat and possibly 3 as I like the idea of Location 1. I don't know that this would necessarily be a bad thing since the majority of the time spent on the boat is hanging out on the rear deck.


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

Also, I've since decided on subs. I went with 2 Sundown SA-8's in 1.5 ported box, tuned to 33hz.

The subs will be powered by an Exile X1200.1. I hear the amp is underrated, here's a quote from the owner of Exile; "X1200.1 bench out about 1350 watts, but I have seen units in the 1400 watt range... With square wave, burpabble SPL power around 1600 watts or so... "

I could do 400Wx2 @ 2ohm or 600Wx2 @ 1ohm. My only concern is running the amp at 1ohm will run my battery down real quick. Both of the amps are running off a dedicated battery that's not connected to the alternator. I'm not sure how much it will shorten my battery life at 1ohm vs 2ohm.

Amp specs: EXILE 1200.1
1200-1 ohm
800-2 ohm
400-4 ohm
- Class D high efficiency design
- Stable down to 1 ohm
- 24dB crossover
- Subsonic filtering
- 4 gauge power and ground connectors
- Fuse size: 100A


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## sqoverspl (Aug 17, 2009)

imo that much power will run down your battery in a matter of minutes. unless you have a little generator Id skip the bass as its usually not very powerful from the lack of cabin gain and go with a pro audio/high efficiency setup to use as little power as possible


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

sqoverspl said:


> imo that much power will run down your battery in a matter of minutes. unless you have a little generator Id skip the bass as its usually not very powerful from the lack of cabin gain and go with a pro audio/high efficiency setup to use as little power as possible


Well last summer I had an Alpine Type R 12" on an Alpine MRP500 mono and 4 Exile SX65's on an RF P400.4. I had that setup running off a deep cycle Walmart Everstart MAXX battery. I think that battery has 110AH. The stereo would run a good 4 hours at full tilt. 

I just bought 2 Trojan J305G-AC 6v batteries and wired them in a series for 12v. This setup gives me 315AH and a 678RC @ 25 Amps. I'll be pretty pissed if I can't have some good bass with 200lb's of battery.


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## Tbagg (Mar 15, 2008)

Don't skip the sub! I put a sub in my boat and it sounds better than I ever would have imagined!

The stereo in my boat gets used much like you plan to use yours. We'll beach the boat at the sand bar, and with the engine off, blast the stereo for a few hours. I have two batters with a battery switch installed, so I will always have a fresh battery to start the engine.

Anyway, back to your original question; speaker locations. You probably don't want to hear this, but the best speaker location for enjoying the music while in the water would be on a wake board tower. My boat is loud as hell while in the boat, but once in the water, it's muffled quite a bit, except for the sub. 

With 8 speakers in your boat getting 100 watts each, you will certainly get sound out of it at high levels. But if anyone is in the boat, it certainly will be uncomfortable for them.


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

yeah, I'm not skipping the sub. I'm putting 2 SA-8's in. Already have the box design. I have 2 batteries under the engine hatch with a selector switch like you, but I will also have the monster trojan batteries under the passenger console for the stereo only.

I know what you're saying about the wakeboard tower, but there is no way I'd ever install a wakeboard tower on my boat. It would be awful for wakeboarding...I wakeboard enough behind my buddies boat and cable wakeboard all the time


I want to put one extra speaker in the middle of the front and the other in the middle of the back, but I'm concerned about phasing.

I'd like to put the other 2 behind the passenger and driver seat (location 4) but I'm concerned it wouldn't sound right with the 3 speakers under the bench seat and an additional 2 above them.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

SA-8 is incredibly inefficient. I reallllly don't recommend it for this application. Look for something with as much sensitivity as you can so you need less power to drive it to the same level. But do not skimp on displacement capability (Vd = Sd * Xmax; make sure to convert them to the same unit as Sd is usually in cm and Xmax usually mm). Sensitivity will be the more important of the two specs for you, but Vd must be decent.

I explained to someone on CA forums last night who was also considering the SA-8 that:
SA-8 sensitivity: 78dB
Fi BTL 12N3 sensitivity: 91dB

You gain 3dB sensitivity for each doubling of the cone area, and an additional 3dB (for 6dB total) maximum output if you double the power alone with the speakers. But, watt-for-watt, 3dB for each doubling of cone area.

You need more than 16 SA-8s to equal a Fi 12N3 at the same overall power. Now, the 12N3 is not necessarily what I'd recommend to YOU, but I do NOT recommend the SA-8.

Also, I would recommend every speaker you get have a poly cone and rubber surround. I don't normally prefer poly cones but they are by far the best for applications where they might get wet. Metal cones are #2 and paper cones, no matter how treated, are #avoid. As for CF and kevlar, I am not sure of the effect of water on them.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Looked at some 8s for you. This is what I'd recommend for an 8 in your situation: Dayton NS210-44 8" Neodymium Low-Profile DVC Subwoofer

88dB 1w/1m, fiberglass cone (fine with water), reasonably decent Xmax, not too expensive.

Keep in mind that the spider still will not like water, so I hope it will be mounted in such a way that it doesn't get wet.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I would do location 2 and possibly 4. Having the drivers up high will let more sound out of the boat and sound good inside. However when I was doing these boats we used 6x9 and even 7x10s, though hard to find a good 7x10 now. They work far better than the 6.5. Sometimes 6.5 is all that fits in front. The 6x9 have a lot more midrange and bass, they get louder and the more the better two pair is great. You can get away without subs if you have to. For subs I would go large as you can 8s are not going to put out in a boat, but I don't know what you can fit. We usually put one or two pair 6x9 under the back seat, 6.5 in sides near driver seats, another set in bow, sometimes 6x9 low in sides someplace. You can also consider making a sonotube sub they are lighter, most of us raced around and didn't want a heavy sub box it slowed the boats down. Or run IB marine subs, but you can't lay the power to those. Most Polk audio are marine rated. Sometimes we would use a compartment already in the boat, just seal it and mount the sub(s) in.


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## Tbagg (Mar 15, 2008)

bendow said:


> yeah, I'm not skipping the sub. I'm putting 2 SA-8's in. Already have the box design. I have 2 batteries under the engine hatch with a selector switch like you, but I will also have the monster trojan batteries under the passenger console for the stereo only.
> 
> I know what you're saying about the wakeboard tower, but there is no way I'd ever install a wakeboard tower on my boat. It would be awful for wakeboarding...I wakeboard enough behind my buddies boat and cable wakeboard all the time
> 
> ...


I didn't think you would like the wake board tower idea, but it is the best way to get sound OUT of your boat and into the water will you'll be while in the cove. 

Not that you asked for sub recommendations, but since everyone else is giving theirs I thought I would mention that most (if not all) of Image Dynamics and Polk Audio stuff is marine rated.


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## jmil1974 (Dec 24, 2007)

Simply go to www dot wetsounds dot com. Their stuff flat works for getting good sound onto the water. Their amps are based on efficient Arc stuff but made water resistant. Their setups simply kick ass.


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

Dragonrage, thanks for the input. I didn't know the SA-8's are that inefficient. I looked at the subs you linked, but to be honest I really don't like them all that much. If that was all the space I had, I would be more inclined to them.

Sqshoestring, thank you! You're the first person who suggested a location for the speakers. I think I agree with you...I just kind of cringe cutting holes in the boat. I know what you mean with the 6x9's, but you'd be surprised how well these little Exiles 6.5 sound. Do you have any opinions on a sub?

Tbagg, I'm looking for sub recommendations now. I checked out Image Dynamics, the IDMAX 12 seems like a great woofer.

Jmil1974, did you read any of my post? I guess I could go to wetsounds, but then I'd have to take out a second mortgage on my house. Tim and the guys from Wetsounds are great, and they have an excellent product, but its ultra expensive. I have Exile gear anyway, which is wetsounds competitor, and I've heard both... -I like Exile better.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

bendow said:


> I looked at the subs you linked, but to be honest I really don't like them all that much. If that was all the space I had, I would be more inclined to them.


I'm not a fan of 8s, either. I just linked you an 8 since you were looking at 8s. What exactly do you not like about them? Or have you decided to go with a larger diameter driver?


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

dragonrage said:


> I'm not a fan of 8s, either. I just linked you an 8 since you were looking at 8s. What exactly do you not like about them? Or have you decided to go with a larger diameter driver?


I guess the thing I don't like the most about them is I couldn't find many reviews on them. Also, I have a really large battery bank, with a good size amp, so I want a considerable amount of bass....especially considering I'll have 8 speakers at 100w each.

I'm considering other sizes now. I've been looking at the Kicker L7 12". I really need to re-evaluate how much space I have to work with. It don't think SQ really matters that much since it's an open air environment.

What you mentioned about the SA-8's was addressed here, it seems like there are conflicting reports. Some say pretty much what you said, others say the opposite.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

We're talking 8"s here. Comparing stuff at 25Hz isn't going to be of much use. 8"s do not have enough cone area / displacement to play that low.


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't disagree with you. If I did, I'd be sticking with my original plan of using the SA-8's.


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## Tbagg (Mar 15, 2008)

bendow said:


> Dragonrage, thanks for the input. I didn't know the SA-8's are that inefficient. I looked at the subs you linked, but to be honest I really don't like them all that much. If that was all the space I had, I would be more inclined to them.
> 
> Sqshoestring, thank you! You're the first person who suggested a location for the speakers. I think I agree with you...I just kind of cringe cutting holes in the boat. I know what you mean with the 6x9's, but you'd be surprised how well these little Exiles 6.5 sound. Do you have any opinions on a sub?
> 
> ...


Image Dynamics makes great stuff and their IDMAX is a fantastic sub. But if you like Exile so much, why not try one of their subs? Sorry for not really commenting on your speaker location choices as you have suggested. I just don't really think you're going to accomplish what you want by simply adding more speakers. It may sound like a dumb idea, but have you thought about wakeboard tower speakers secured to your chrome transom rail just above your sun pad? Just a thought.


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## bendow (Aug 5, 2010)

I like the Exile subs, but if I were to get one, it'd be the Big 12, and it's cost more than I want to spend. I think I'll end up with the IDMAX 12.

My goal is just to make it louder inside the boat. We go to Devils Cove at Lake Travis. There are boats with sound systems in excess of $40k. As soon as you get out of the boat and into the water all you will hear are other stereos. I don't think I'd mount an HLCD on the rails, mainly for aesthetic reasons...and I probably wouldn't be able to hear it anyway because of stereos like this...


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Tbagg said:


> Image Dynamics makes great stuff and their IDMAX is a fantastic sub.


No. It's a generic sub. Okay but nothing special.

In fact, Image Dynamics does not and has never made a "great" sub. They all use conventional motor technology. I have yet to be impressed.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

What would I use for subs, it really depends on what you have for mounting. IB marine subs can work pretty well but you need lots of large subs, they don't need a lot of power. For a box vented is most output, you want output because you want to use less power make batteries last longer. I'd try to run the amp at higher ohm load (more efficient), larger ported is ideal if you use a box. I'd go large as I could with the sub, as many as I could lol. Well you do what you can of course.

Most of the boats I did were deep vee 21-28', and we mostly used normal car amps because they were inside and its fresh water here. Many of the speakers were not marine either though if they were paper it was coated. If they were on top of dash and really exposed we might use marine is all. Most HU were under one of those covers. These boats only saw rain if you got caught in it while out, they were too big to get water in them really under normal circumstance. There was always the threat of beer spillage lol, that was before they cracked down so much here.

I would try to get two pair of 6x9 in there and whatever else you put, you have to make them visible to where you want the sound that is why the tower aims them all at the skier....or best you can. 6x9 will not make bass in a little box don't try to do that you would be better off with a woofer maybe an 8 in a box that will work right there if you need midbass. You might consider 8s or 10s woofers to run midbass if you don't want 6x9, or MB is going to suffer. You could try those coax 8s they have now but I've never used them.

You need to imagine you have a big car and you go to a party in a field/etc and need a stereo people will dance to....except you go fast down really bumpy roads so everything needs to be very secure. Unless you make boxes you can flip up while moored or something like that.

I was under the impression IDMax was a lower efficiency SQ type sub, but I never modeled them either so I don't really know. I would hesitate to put anything expensive in a boat, I always considered boat speakers as expendable. We used to blow speakers here and there, you want a common brand so you can pick up more and replace them lol. Brighter speakers work better too, back then we used a lot of kenwood but not knowing about their speakers now. They had a wicked 7x10 that fit a 6x9 hole.


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## darinof (Feb 6, 2009)

The best placement will be location 2 and location 4 as hi as possible. And one efficient sub on a ported box (I like the digital designs 512b). Also if you can keep the amps running at 4 ohm will help your battery.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

dragonrage said:


> No. It's a generic sub. Okay but nothing special.
> 
> In fact, Image Dynamics does not and has never made a "great" sub. They all use conventional motor technology. I have yet to be impressed.




Another classic quote from dragon....If you blindfolded this guy and played a ID sub and told him it was a dayton, he would tell you it sounded great....LOL


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