# Favorite Sq amp and why?



## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

Just wondering out of all the amps you have used what is your favorite sq amp? Why? What other amps have you used ? 

Mine is the Mosconi Zeros and I’ve used Mmats , Jl HD’s, audison Voce 5.1k , Diamond audio d5s , Zapco lx , crossfire c402 i think was the model ???

My least fav hands down was the JL HD. I tried the 600/4 & 900/5 didn’t like either of them.


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## Nakamichifan (Apr 1, 2018)

Nakamichi PA, original series and Zed line. Pure Musical Bliss! Btw I have a PA-506 available. ?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

My current GZ uranium’s are pretty swish, and I’d have to say outright fave was old school series 3 genesis, dual monos being things of legend


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

I’ve never even hear of any of these except the genesis


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## TomT (May 19, 2005)

My favorite of all time has to be the TRU Technology Copper C7.4T. Hybrid amp with tube preamp.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

TomT said:


> My favorite of all time has to be the TRU Technology Copper C7.4T. Hybrid amp with tube preamp.


Love that color


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

I'll take the big autoformer Mac, y'all have the rest


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

```

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TomT said:


> My favorite of all time has to be the TRU Technology Copper C7.4T. Hybrid amp with tube preamp.


Buddy of mine is using this amp. It’s a gem for sure! Tubes are swappable to experiment with different sound signatures.


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## Nakamichifan (Apr 1, 2018)

Check out the specs for the PA-300 MKII

Continuous power output: 
75 watts per channel into 4 ohms (.003% THD) 

Power bandwidth: 5 to 50,000 Hz

Total harmonic distortion: better than 115dB

Frequency response: 50 to 50,000Hz

Signal to noise ratio: better than 115dB

Damping factor: greater than 1000


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Modded Arc Audio 4150cxlr & 2500cxl. Just very low noise, clean, musical, dynamic power.

And IMO there has always been something special about the DLS Ultimate TA-2 amps on midrange drivers in particular.

*DLS Ultimate TA-2*


Others might suggest the old Milbert BaM-235 tube amps purely for sonics, though the build quality when actually inspecting the PCB & internal component quality was "just okay".

Milbert BaM Mobile Tube Amplifier

I don't recall ever hearing one personally, though.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Its all about the iron and circuit.





bbfoto said:


> Modded Arc Audio 4150cxlr & 2500cxl. Just very low noise, clean, musical, dynamic power.
> 
> And IMO there has always been something special about the DLS Ultimate TA-2 amps on midrange drivers in particular.
> 
> ...


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Modded Arc Audio 4150cxlr & 2500cxl. Just very low noise, clean, musical, dynamic power.



I have always loved those, as well as the Esoteric/diamond Audio D7 line.


I have (3 ) of those Arc's sitting on my shelf at home actually (2 4150cxlr's and a 2500cxl) 


Genesis Series 3 and Brax Matrix are also excellent. The Brax Matrix are excellent on woofers/subs. The Genesis are excellent on everything.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

favorite ever (not owned, but listened to): Adcom. Runner up, A modified tubed Planet Audio.


favorite owned : Human Reign Unleashed. 



Why? Because heavy bias class A smooooooth.


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

bbfoto said:


> Modded Arc Audio 4150cxlr & 2500cxl. Just very low noise, clean, musical, dynamic power.
> 
> And IMO there has always been something special about the DLS Ultimate TA-2 amps on midrange drivers in particular.
> 
> ...


I now have a 4150xxk in my collection, believe that's essentially the same guts.

Curious what mods you did on the 4150cxlr?


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bnae38 said:


> I now have a 4150xxk in my collection, believe that's essentially the same guts.


Did you just win that 4150xxk on ebay for $208? If so, it is one of the cleanest ones I've seen recently and your lucky I got sidetracked as that auction was ending 

I've been using 2 of the 4150xxk in my vehicle (at the recommendation of Mr. Obvious) and absolutely love them. Also have a third which is modified (Preamp removed, class A bias adjusted) sitting on the shelf ready to run the mids/tweets when I get around to it (requires some wire re-routing).


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

Truthunter said:


> Did you just win that 4150xxk on ebay for $208? If so, it is one of the cleanest ones I've seen recently and your lucky I got sidetracked as that auction was ending
> 
> I've been using 2 of the 4150xxk in my vehicle (at the recommendation of Mr. Obvious) and absolutely love them. Also have a third which is modified (Preamp removed, class A bias adjusted) sitting on the shelf ready to run the mids/tweets when I get around to it (requires some wire re-routing).



No, I did see that one though . Got mine from Mr Niebur on here as-is. Has some issues with pots I wasn't able to sort out with cleaning. Have parts coming to replace them.. Should be a nice amp once running reliably.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

The XXK's and CXLR's are both awesome. I just love the classic look of the I beam design of the CXLR's more is all.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> The Genesis are excellent on everything.


Bam!

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

My favorite of all time were the old school Zapco Studio and Z series amplifiers. Lunar Amplifiers run a close second!

From the modern era, I tried the Alpine PDX-V9 and hated it; the JL Audio HD 900/5 and liked it; and the MMATS HIFI-6150d which I loved and still own.

IMHO speakers and having equalization per channel is more important than amplifier choice as long as you have enough power to back it up.


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## tRidiot (Jun 29, 2006)

ChrisB said:


> My favorite of all time were the old school Zapco Studio and Z series amplifiers. Lunar Amplifiers run a close second!
> 
> From the modern era, I tried the Alpine PDX-V9 and hated it; the JL Audio HD 900/5 and liked it; and the MMATS HIFI-6150d which I loved and still own.
> 
> IMHO speakers and having equalization per channel is more important than amplifier choice as long as you have enough power to back it up.


Loved loved LOVED my old school Zapcos.

At one point I had a pair of Z100s, a Z200 and a Z600 for subs. God, those amps were sweet. I don't think I really even appreciated them back then. Wish I hadn't had to sell them when I went off to school.  Same as my first-ever firearm purchase. <sigh> S&W SW99.

Oh well... I got no complaints about my amps these days, not at all.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Of all the amps I have used, I would have to say that my current Zapco Z-APs are awesome. I have no desire to change them out anytime soon. 

I had a chance to see a GZUA 6.200SQ-Plus amp (from the Uranium line dumdum mentioned) in person last weekend and it looks extremely nice. Haven't had a chance to hear one in action... yet.

Those Diamond D7 amps were my "dream amps" back when all I could afford were the M3 line of components TM3 subs and and a couple of RF a2 amps.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> The XXK's and CXLR's are both awesome. I just love the classic look of the I beam design of the CXLR's more is all.




I’ve never owned or heard those Arcs, but I used to have a brochure with those models......loved the way they looked.......and of course those Diamonds are AMAZING!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tranv9565 (Jun 6, 2017)

TomT said:


> My favorite of all time has to be the TRU Technology Copper C7.4T. Hybrid amp with tube preamp.


Is that yours?? Let me know if you ever want to sell it!!!

McIntosh have always been my favorite. They produce clean power and they're always underrated. Love the looks as well. Only down side to McIntosh for me is the size.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DLS CCi-44 because it won out in my amplifier shootout and sounded the best to me as well. I was surprised by the good clean sound I got from my Pioneer D8604 by comparison.

Of course none of these are worth even mentioning amongst this upper echelon mega buck crowd.

I’m not worthy 
I’m not worthy
I’m not worthy master. :bowdown:


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

Those d7s go cheap now a days. Too big though for a truck.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

sonically overall my favourite would be: 
McIntosh - smooth detailed, but lack on power output, sound on the warmer side (MCC 406 6 channel)
Brax - enough power, brutal control, a ton of details and microdetails, a bit cold sounding


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bertholomey said:


> I’ve never owned or heard those Arcs


You have heard them (in the xxk cosmetic varient) in my car


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Truthunter said:


> You have heard them (in the xxk cosmetic varient) in my car


I guess that is a good thing......enjoying the quality of the system without knowing the parts that are making that great sound. I typically inquire / view the equipment after a demo......but who knows what direction I was pulled....'Butterfly!'......after the demo.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

rob3980 said:


> Those d7s go cheap now a days. Too big though for a truck.



Depends on the model and condition. You can find D7054's and D7152's floating around for reasonable prices for sure. The D7104 and D7402 (the big boys) are harder to come by. With their age, they should also be recapped and inspected if they are used. 



But yeah, they are BIG ...and heavy!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Old Zapco Studios and comps..Still running a studio 100 on tweets, unfortunately the power supply died on my studio 300x. These two together made my favorite front stage amps.

Then the old Sony ES stuff from the G dual monos to the big red

Early pre-zed Nak stuff and the early Zed Naks

DLS Natural sound line

In general, the old zapcos are my reference amplifiers


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

captainobvious said:


> rob3980 said:
> 
> 
> > Those d7s go cheap now a days. Too big though for a truck.
> ...


Wonder how these d7 amps compare to the Mosconi zeros ?

I’m planning on buying what I call my
“ realistic dream car “ soon and deciding if I should do a old school build with audio from around that time frame with the exception being adding a current dsp or if I should do all newer gear. 

If I went old school it would be a full Diamond Audio system as I already own a TDX sub and a set of Macdaddys and could pair them with some diamond amps and comps.


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## mpm17 (Jun 2, 2019)

My Kicker IQ1000.5. Because its the one I could buy without the wife finding out. And it does everything I need in my simple 5 speaker setup. I honestly can't say if its realistic or detailed or clinical sounding when compared to any other SQ amp. I know it sounds drastically better than what it replaced and I believe its greatly due to the amount of control I gained over the crossovers, time delay and eq abilities.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

mpm17 said:


> My Kicker IQ1000.5. Because its the one I could buy without the wife finding out. And it does everything I need in my simple 5 speaker setup. I honestly can't say if its realistic or detailed or clinical sounding when compared to any other SQ amp. I know it sounds drastically better than what it replaced and I believe its greatly due to the amount of control I gained over the crossovers, time delay and eq abilities.



A lot of guys have wives that they have to hide their car audio addiction from. This is reason #1 I’m never getting married lmao .


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Huge fan of VXi. Digital age...ZERO noise and FULL control from integrated DSP. No reason it can't sound as good as ANY of the amps listed previously in this thread.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

rob3980 said:


> A lot of guys have wives that they have to hide their car audio addiction from. This is reason #1 I’m never getting married lmao .


Should do in the open, not hide lol. I was designing something and the boss came over and asked what's that now and aren't you selling the car already. Told her it's for her car and that was an easy audit...


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

diy.phil said:


> rob3980 said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of guys have wives that they have to hide their car audio addiction from. This is reason #1 I’m never getting married lmao .
> ...


Lol. I refuse to get married.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

rob3980 said:


> A lot of guys have wives that they have to hide their car audio addiction from. This is reason #1 I’m never getting married lmao .


Yeah me too. Well might be because I'm honest to a fault and a lot of women don't like that:surprised::mean::laugh:

My favorite sq amp was a Zuki copy of a Brax Graphic edition 4ch. Headroom for miles. Too bad back then I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I do remember is sounding better than anything else I had tried when it came to details like mentioned above about Brax. On a budget the Zapco ST series a/b amps by far. The Helix G-Five I'm running now is pretty damn nice too.


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## Monk47 (Nov 25, 2017)

I too like the Diamond Audio D7 amps, been running two for the last 18 years. Switched to a Alpine PDX-V9 2 yrs. ago, not a bad amp but went back to the Diamond Audio amps after about two months.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Rockford Fosgate.

Because solid & reliable power year after year.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

mpm17 said:


> My Kicker IQ1000.5. Because its the one I could buy without the wife finding out. And it does everything I need in my simple 5 speaker setup. I honestly can't say if its realistic or detailed or clinical sounding when compared to any other SQ amp. I know it sounds drastically better than what it replaced and I believe its greatly due to the amount of control I gained over the crossovers, time delay and eq abilities.


Great amps. Kicker really should have added the auto-eq in their micro Key amp onto the IQ line, but the DSP is very nice and flexible. Just that Key auto-eq is very impressive and seems superior to my ms8 and especially the pioneer auto-eq. Whatever algorithm the Mini-Key amps use for auto-eq, its a winner. Dead center image. I know many like to tweak but I just ran it twice, both times it was perfect.


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## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

rob3980 said:


> Lol. I refuse to get married.



That’s why mine is all in the attic in boxes out of sight 


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

SiW80 said:


> That’s why mine is all in the attic in boxes out of sight


You put your marriage in a box in the attic?!?


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## mpm17 (Jun 2, 2019)

tyroneshoes said:


> Great amps. Kicker really should have added the auto-eq in their micro Key amp onto the IQ line, but the DSP is very nice and flexible. Just that Key auto-eq is very impressive and seems superior to my ms8 and especially the pioneer auto-eq. Whatever algorithm the Mini-Key amps use for auto-eq, its a winner. Dead center image. I know many like to tweak but I just ran it twice, both times it was perfect.


I bought a Kicker Key amp but returned it. The only fault for my application was the preset crossover point. My tweeters will cross lower than that preset and I want to take advantage of that. And the IQ1000.5 will drive my sub also so less wiring. Otherwise it is a great amp for a quick and easy front stage which I'm considering for my wife's car. 

On the subject of hiding stuff from my wife that others have mentioned, the car stereo equipment is the least of my hiding. If she knew the combination to the gun safe I'd be if deep doo-doo. But in all honesty she knows I buy stuff but luckily she doesn't ask to many questions. She goes shopping also and I don't ask questions either. The hobbies are much safer than drinking with the guys every weekend.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

ErinH said:


> You put your marriage in a box in the attic?!?
> [/IMG]


I think that he was talking about his porn collection...JK/LOL


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## CarGuru (Apr 7, 2012)

I have a voce quattro from the first run, it has a slightly different finish than my other voces. It's an absolute beast. I now have one of each, one car with the quattro, due and uno; and another with a 5.1K. 

The ability to use Audison's Full DA setup with the Bit In Cards for the Voce amps quickly made them my favorite. Someone above mentioned the new JL VXi amps and how they provide a silent, efficient package. This is the same reason I like the Voce's. The Full DA setup is just too convenient, and there's certainly no sacrifice in using a BitOne for processing which provides the digital signal for the amps via CAT5s. I haven't dealt with RCA's in 8 years.

The next amp I'm going to try is the JL VXi. However, I went from JL HD to the Voce's years ago and realized incredible improvements in detail and impact.


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

CarGuru said:


> I have a voce quattro from the first run, it has a slightly different finish than my other voces. It's an absolute beast. I now have one of each, one car with the quattro, due and uno; and another with a 5.1K.
> 
> The ability to use Audison's Full DA setup with the Bit In Cards for the Voce amps quickly made them my favorite. Someone above mentioned the new JL VXi amps and how they provide a silent, efficient package. This is the same reason I like the Voce's. The Full DA setup is just too convenient, and there's certainly no sacrifice in using a BitOne for processing which provides the digital signal for the amps via CAT5s. I haven't dealt with RCA's in 8 years.
> 
> The next amp I'm going to try is the JL VXi. However, I went from JL HD to the Voce's years ago and realized incredible improvements in detail and impact.


I also like my Voce 5.1k . Some people don’t like them but I loved mine. Not as much as my Zapco and Mosconi as and zero amps but I still loved the Voce. 

The Hd amps i absolutely can not stand and the VXI amps I have not tried and will not. Not a big JL fan when It comes to speakers and amps. The subs I do like.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

My favorite would be my Genesis Modded Class A Four Channel... can you say " ALIVE " !!??.. Wow! .. second runner up would be my ZUKI ELEETS v1 4 channel.. just uncolored and crystal-clear perfect!

Worst overpaid amplifier would be JL HD600/4 .. second to that - JL XD600/6 ... both turned my music collections into one word - "BORING"!


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

jimmyjames16 said:


> My favorite would be my Genesis Modded Class A Four Channel... can you say " ALIVE " !!??.. Wow! .. second runner up would be my ZUKI ELEETS v1 4 channel.. just uncolored and crystal-clear perfect!
> 
> Worst overpaid amplifier would be JL HD600/4 .. second to that - JL XD600/6 ... both turned my music collections into one word - "BORING"!


Have you ran the Zapco lx or ap Amps or the Mosconi zeros ? Wondering how the genesis compare ? I know a guy who has a bunch of genesis amps he loves them. Peter Holm is his name


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

I haven't ran any of those amps ... I have a small collection of the Genesis Series III all modded to Class A by Gordon ... love them!!


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Anyone tried ground zero higher lines? The Asian and euro guys love them


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

jimmyjames16 said:


> My favorite would be my Genesis Modded Class A Four Channel... can you say " ALIVE " !!??.. Wow! .. second runner up would be my ZUKI ELEETS v1 4 channel.. just uncolored and crystal-clear perfect!
> 
> Worst overpaid amplifier would be JL HD600/4 .. second to that - JL XD600/6 ... both turned my music collections into one word - "BORING"!


Have you ever ran the Zapco lx or ap or Mosconi zero 4 amps ? If so how do they compare to the genesis. My buddy owns a bunch of genesis amps ( Peter Holm ) he won’t share though.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

jimmyjames16 said:


> My favorite would be my Genesis Modded Class A Four Channel...


Probably a bit hard to best that. 


In the near future, Morel will supposedly be releasing 2 higher end lines of amplifiers that will be above their current MPS lineup, including a supposedly "Reference" line. 

I'm curious to see how they fair!? No details as to the different configurations or topologies yet. Sit and wait.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Any current production hybrids anyone know of?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Ive been listening to the ADS60.4 on my test bench past week and it is one suprisingly crisp and detailed amplifier. I mean a drastic change from this PDX I had on it. Its like there was cloth covering my tweeters on the jl and this removed it. This is a great amp but just a large and not extremely powerful class a/b. This amp is def unique.

ADS60.4 – Audio Dynamics


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Chaos said:


> Rockford Fosgate.
> 
> Because solid & reliable power year after year.


Do you prefer the class a/b Punch series over the current power class d series? 

I really like the P series as well. Just great steady amps but the newer power line seems to have some issues.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I like the Power class AB version that is 100 wpc. It did well in my testing.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

rob3980 said:


> Have you ever ran the Zapco lx or ap or Mosconi zero 4 amps ? If so how do they compare to the genesis. My buddy owns a bunch of genesis amps ( Peter Holm ) he won’t share though.


I haven't ran any of those amps before.. I can tell you that the Genesis Series III amps are "bright" amps. Every instrument is felt in its own depth and placement like the artist intended. There is no discoloration or "laid backness".. definitely not laid back.. more of an "in your face- I'm alive" front stage at a concert feel.. it can scream with clarity. Just a beautiful amp. 

I have a couple of Soundstream Reference Class A's from Wade Stewart that were modded, and I have yet to hear those as well. I also have Mosconi AS 4 channel that is just sitting around.. I have to get to all of these at some point in my life.. 

Hopefully I can do a comparison on all (4) amps - Genesis Mod Class A Four Channel, Zuki Eleets 4v1 , Soundstream Mod Class A Reference 604 , and the Mosconi AS 100.4 ... and maybe drop in an Arc CXLR 4050 just to mix it up.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

rob3980 said:


> Just wondering out of all the amps you have used what is your favorite sq amp? Why? What other amps have you used ?
> 
> Mine is the Mosconi Zeros and I’ve used Mmats , Jl HD’s, audison Voce 5.1k , Diamond audio d5s , Zapco lx , crossfire c402 i think was the model ???
> 
> My least fav hands down was the JL HD. I tried the 600/4 & 900/5 didn’t like either of them.




How much better was the Zapco LX compared to the Audison 5.1k?


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## rob3980 (Jun 11, 2010)

tonynca said:


> rob3980 said:
> 
> 
> > Just wondering out of all the amps you have used what is your favorite sq amp? Why? What other amps have you used ?
> ...


I liked both of the amps. The Zapco sounds a little better but i had the 150.6 it’s huge and doesn’t do sub duty like the 5.1k. I just ordered multiple Sconi Zeros this week.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

rob3980 said:


> I liked both of the amps. The Zapco sounds a little better but i had the 150.6 it’s huge and doesn’t do sub duty like the 5.1k. I just ordered multiple Sconi Zeros this week.




Surprising answer. I'm going to assume you were running some pretty good speakers with those amps as well since I saw you selling Utopia M. 

The size is nuts on those LX. 

A friend of mine is switching to the LX 150.6 and I'm just curious to see what he should expect. 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Absolute favorite SQ amp is the *Brax MX4-Pro*.

Decent sized footprint.
Huge power output.
Built like a tank.
Simple but sexy German styling.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jimmydee said:


> Absolute favorite SQ amp is the *Brax MX4-Pro*.
> 
> 
> Decent sized footprint.
> ...


Yeah, if I could I'd use a brax dsp and a few mx4 pros and be set for dsp and amps for pretty much life lol

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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

I just tried out the MMATS 6150 I bought from Rob, really liking it compared to the Pioneer I had!

I haven't tuned it yet, but the sound is way cleaner across the board, highs are nowhere near as harsh. Unfortunately, I won't have time to go active and tune to see its full potential for a couple weeks. Really looking forward to it though!


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I just tried out the MMATS 6150 I bought from Rob, really liking it compared to the Pioneer I had!
> 
> I haven't tuned it yet, but the sound is way cleaner across the board, highs are nowhere near as harsh. Unfortunately, I won't have time to go active and tune to see its full potential for a couple weeks. Really looking forward to it though!


How efficient is it on your car's electrical system?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I just tried out the MMATS 6150 I bought from Rob, really liking it compared to the Pioneer I had!
> 
> I haven't tuned it yet, but the sound is way cleaner across the board, highs are nowhere near as harsh. Unfortunately, I won't have time to go active and tune to see its full potential for a couple weeks. Really looking forward to it though!


I went from a Zapco Z150-6LX to a MMATS HiFi-6150, and honestly... I couldn't hear a difference! 
They are both incredibly good sounding amps. 
Like... *REALLY, REALLY* good.

Not to derail this thread... my favorite SQ amp is still the Brax MX4-Pro... but bang for the buck: Zapco Z-LX or MMATS HiFi. Hands-down.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

jimmydee said:


> I went from a Zapco Z150-6LX to a MMATS HiFi-6150, and honestly... I couldn't hear a difference!
> They are both incredibly good sounding amps.
> Like... *REALLY, REALLY* good.
> 
> Not to derail this thread... my favorite SQ amp is still the Brax MX4-Pro... but bang for the buck: Zapco Z-LX or MMATS HiFi. Hands-down.


Just tell me it doesn't sound like a JL HD , PDX, or Xdiv2.. ?

.. if that is the case then the mmats will be the next amp I put in my new Pilot..


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

jimmyjames16 said:


> Just tell me it doesn't sound like a JL HD , PDX, or Xdiv2.. ?
> 
> .. if that is the case then the mmats will be the next amp I put in my new Pilot..


Totally different league... The MMATS is a true SQ amp. 
Class D, designed and built for pure sound quality. Hand made in the USA.
As mentioned; I went from a Zapco Z-LX, and the MMATS Class D sounds every bit as good as the Zap A/B amp!
It truly is an amazing amplifier. Don't hesitate to buy one. You won't be disappointed.

Now.. back to the OP's original question:
Still haven't changed my mind on the Brax MX4-Pro being my absolute favorite SQ amp.
Just need to win the Lotto, so I can get a pair of them, and a Brax DSP.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> Yeah, if I could I'd use a brax dsp and a few mx4 pros and be set for dsp and amps for pretty much life lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You can fry eqqs, bacon and frogs all at the same time with this super sounding amp.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

Monolithic PA, R & Class A series
Zapco Studio
Soundstream Reference

These 3 are all just about a tie for me & for different reasons.
The Monolithic's can do it all. They're very underrated, clean & smooth. Some due tend to run hot(Class A's) & the older models due have turn on/off noises but once running they're great with just about every pairing of speaker out there. Have paired these things with Oz Superman's, G&S Redline, Nakamichi, SS Exact, Morel & others. They always seemed to play great & never get too bright or laid back.

The old 90's Zapco Studio series. I've only really played with these paired with Oz Superman's, Kicker & 90's ESB stuff. With Kicker & ESB, thought they were good but when paired with the Oz Superman series, wow, something almost magical happened. It was almost like these two were meant to be paired together. These were the only amps that ever sounded better than the Monolithics when paired with the Oz speakers. To be fair, it wasn't quite apples/apples as the Zapco's were rated as having much more headroom(150/ch vs 70/ch & 450x1 bridged vs 240x1monoblock) but they were able to have slightly more detail while keeping a similar overall signature.

SS Reference series. Was a great pairing with the old school G&S Redlines(rebadged pro type drivers). The warm character of these amps paired great with the Redlines. Was able to make a mid-tier cost system sound like a very high dollar pairing. The Redlines could easily be too "in your face" or "shouty" but always seemed to sound great when paired with the Reference line. Too bad the reliability sucked on these but that wasn't part of this evaluation.

Honorable mentions:

-US Amps tube hybrid (75x4, forget the model), effortless but a little too bright for my tastes.
-Audison Lrx 6ch(also forget the model), clean but not dynamic enough.
-SS D200 series 1 dual mono, super clean but start/stop noises & a bit bright.
-LP iq series, dynamic & pretty clean but just a step behind the leaders. Always felt like there was just something missing on the front stage.
-PPI Art & ProMos, similar to the Audison, just lacking in dynamics when called for.
-Orion SX & HCCA, same as PPI & Audison. In fact, all three of these would probably be interchangeable without ever being able to tell a difference.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

jimmyjames16 said:


> How efficient is it on your car's electrical system?


Honestly have no clue. I am just running a stock Honda Accord alternator, and a 500W sub amp in addition to the 6150.

But I went after the MMATS simply because of all the great reviews. Lots of people comparing the SW to the Zapco 1650 which sold me.

I heard a few negative reviews on the JL XD and VX which made me a bit hesitant towards those.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

No mention of the biketronics hypex amps?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I heard a few negative reviews on the JL XD and VX which made me a bit hesitant towards those.


The JL XD and RD amps are perfectly fine, maybe not Zapco or MMATS fine, but they're good, as good as a really good class A (again, not Zapco or MMATS good).


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

ckirocz28 said:


> The JL XD and RD amps are perfectly fine, maybe not Zapco or MMATS fine, but they're good, as good as a really good class A (again, not Zapco or MMATS good).


I guess it wasn't so much a negative review but that there were consistent reviews of the sound being "cold" which isn't what I'm after.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

ckirocz28 said:


> The JL XD and RD amps are perfectly fine, maybe not Zapco or MMATS fine, but they're good, as good as a really good class A (again, not Zapco or MMATS good).




Which class A amp did you test against JL XD and RD?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I guess it wasn't so much a negative review but that there were consistent reviews of the sound being "cold" which isn't what I'm after.


Cold, warm, eq can fix that. And I'm not criticizing your statement, just giving my opinion of those amps. I am most definitely not a JL fanboy, but those amps are great in that price range.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

tonynca said:


> Which class A amp did you test against JL XD and RD?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nothing spectacular, just a Memphis Audio MC4.75, I think that's the model. Same price range $300-400, no difference in sound, just smaller and cooler running. I don't mean to say they're on a very high-end level, but they have no drawbacks. Someone did an amplifier shootout against some very nice amps and only had good things to say about the RD 400/4, so I bought one, then I bought an XD 400/4. No difference in sound between those two either, the XD is smaller and has higher quality pots.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

ckirocz28 said:


> Nothing spectacular, just a Memphis Audio MC4.75, I think that's the model. Same price range $300-400, no difference in sound, just smaller and cooler running. I don't mean to say they're on a very high-end level, but they have no drawbacks. Someone did an amplifier shootout against some very nice amps and only had good things to say about the RD 400/4, so I bought one, then I bought an XD 400/4. No difference in sound between those two either, the XD is smaller and has higher quality pots.



That's not a class A amp it's a class AB... You had me going though lol.

There are tons of **** class AB amps. I'm not saying the Memphis is ****. I don't have any experience with it so I'm not going to make a judgement. I was just thrown off by your statement of class A vs class D amps.









High quality components matters a lot to make audiophile reference grade amps like Zapco AP amps. Class AB is just a design topology. It doesn't gaurantee quality. I would say most AB amps sold to the general market is crappier than any of the high end class D amps. I would never compare amplifier topology to determine quality. We have GaN FET class D amp such as Soundigital 300.2D that will give most high end class AB amps a run for its money. Again, components not topology. GaN FET is not mass produced and most class D don't use them yet... There are only a handful of class D amps that utilize GaN FET.

A bit off topic but I was watching this video of an Dynaudio engineer explaining passive crossovers and at the end he was asked "What's the most single important thing in your mind in a passive crossover?" He respond with "quality of components". I think the same goes for amps.

https://youtu.be/ErU5GkbsIzs
Go-to 14:30


A good analogy would that class AB is a sedan. How many grades of sedans are out there? We have an Accord vs E-Class. I'm going to bet you notice a difference driving a E-Class. Class A amps could be compared to a S65 AMG that has a v12 and burns a **** load of gas but its performance is superb. These are just general analogy, don't take it to seriously and break down details to me. But maybe GaN FET class D amps are the Tesla of the amp world. Performance and efficiency in one package. Lol.

Anyways, a system is only as good as its weakest link. The weakest link will mask the details that high end amplifiers are trying to present. Sometimes it's not fair to say this amp is "blank" vs "blank" unless you're damn sure your entire system is up to the task of revealing the difference. 


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Wasnt that SD super limited?


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

dcfis said:


> Wasnt that SD super limited?




Still for sale. You could buy one today. Email them. Their CEO replied to me when I asked. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

LBaudio said:


> sonically overall my favourite would be:
> McIntosh - smooth detailed, but lack on power output, sound on the warmer side (MCC 406 6 channel)
> Brax - enough power, brutal control, a ton of details and microdetails, a bit cold sounding


I went with the McIntosh mostly because they look good, and subwoofer amp has the power meter.
They take up a bit of space though, and 300W at 4-ohms for a sub is below what most people say is required...

(Did I mention that they look good?)


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

tonynca said:


> Still for sale. You could buy one today. Email them. Their CEO replied to me when I asked.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any idea what he is asking?


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

dcfis said:


> Any idea what he is asking?




No idea. I think they retail for $1600. 


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## sdm111 (Mar 25, 2012)

Just cause


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Mcintosh MC4000M gets my vote.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Apr 10, 2017)

ckirocz28 said:


> Cold, warm, eq can fix that. And I'm not criticizing your statement, just giving my opinion of those amps. I am most definitely not a JL fanboy, but those amps are great in that price range.


100% agree. The bang for the buck is fantastic IMO. I wouldn't have bought an MMATS new, but I got it used for the same price as a JL new. If I were buying a new amp then I would do JL. I think some of the other JL audio products are overpriced, but their amps are priced really competitively in the $5-800 range.

My other limitation was space which the MMATS just does phenomenally with.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

JCsAudio said:


> I like the Power class AB version that is 100 wpc. It did well in my testing.


Yeah those are gems. I had dual T400-2 on mids and my sub and an old punch 60dsm on tweets a couple cars back and those are bulletproof amps and due to being 2 channels, go for cheap on ebay.

I have one of those older Tripath or class T Blaupunkts that were very small but powerful amps. I have one BNIB, curious how it compares. I loved my 5 channel Tripath Alpine but was huge. Blaupunkt is next on the bench for me


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## tRidiot (Jun 29, 2006)

:lurk:


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

Since everyone likes pics... modded with pre-amp chips that has the SQ of the Dual Mono..


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

The short time I have listened to these made them my favorites 











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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

After thinking about all the amps I’ve used and listened to I came to the conclusion that the best amp I’ve ever heard/ used is McIntosh because they just disappear, no sound signature, not warm, cold or sterile just pure uncolored sound. Everything other amplifier I’ve listened to makes their presence know in a good or bad way but I would rather one that is completely neutral.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

ErinH said:


> Mcintosh MC4000M gets my vote.


Erin do you have that mounted on just a crossboard with a gap on the top and bottom so the AEs are still IB trunk baffle?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

dcfis said:


> Erin do you have that mounted on just a crossboard with a gap on the top and bottom so the AEs are still IB trunk baffle?


Almost. There is a gap at the top (as you can see) but not the bottom. I also left pretty large cutouts on the sides of the amp board. I measured the response before and after and there was practically no difference.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

Precision Power Pro 650
Owned this many moons ago.
There was something about its tonal characteristics that resonated with me.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

ErinH said:


> Almost. There is a gap at the top (as you can see) but not the bottom. I also left pretty large cutouts on the sides of the amp board. I measured the response before and after and there was practically no difference.


Thanks for the idea


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

AVIDEDTR said:


> Precision Power Pro 650
> Owned this many moons ago.
> There was something about its tonal characteristics that resonated with me.


Had the chrome one, liked it alot but thought is was just clean and powerful, Didnt register any other charachteristics


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

I actually had I list of amps and the PPI was on it along with Brax matrix, Sinfoni ingit, zapco lx and genesis black edition that I deleted from my original post but yes those PPI’s have a rich sounding signature, another amplifier with a somewhat similar signature is the jl audio vxi line. Edit, the ppi I had was grey though.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

ErinH said:


> Mcintosh MC4000M gets my vote.


Do they sound as good as they look?


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## disconnected (May 10, 2017)

Phass and Nakamichi from Japan, maybe I had a chance to listen to those amps.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Holmz said:


> Do they sound as good as they look?


I don't really get in to amplifier sounds discussions. I'll just say I had no issues to speak of with the sonics of the amplifier. I'll also say it's hard to rival the beauty of it in any capacity. lol


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

dcfis said:


> Thanks for the idea


You're welcome. But I can't really take credit for anything. Just an idea I came up with and I'm sure many others have done it as well. In fact, the same week I started on that build another fellow posted something similar on facebook where he used an angled board to mount his amp in front of his IB sub.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

disconnected said:


> Phass and Nakamichi from Japan, maybe I had a chance to listen to those amps.


Got one of each of those too.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

dcfis said:


> Had the chrome one, liked it alot but thought is was just clean and powerful, Didnt register any other charachteristics


I was running rodek at the time and switching amps was jaw dropping

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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

tonynca said:


> That's not a class A amp it's a class AB... You had me going though lol.
> 
> There are tons of **** class AB amps. I'm not saying the Memphis is ****. I don't have any experience with it so I'm not going to make a judgement. I was just thrown off by your statement of class A vs class D amps.
> 
> ...


I don't think there are many true class A amps, I just used class A as shorthand for class A/B, since that's pretty common. And I didn't mean that the Memphis is great, it's just really good sounding, not reliable though.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

AVIDEDTR said:


> Precision Power Pro 650
> Owned this many moons ago.
> There was something about its tonal characteristics that resonated with me.


FWIW, the later PPI Power Class 6800 might have been slightly more flexible. Channels 5 and 6 of those amps were stable at 1 ohm stereo (2 ohm mono bridged). AFAIK, the only such PC series amp that featured any factory specified 1 ohm stability.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

tyroneshoes said:


> Chaos said:
> 
> 
> > Rockford Fosgate.
> ...


Any of them. When I was a full time installer, we swapped countless amps out with Rockford Fosgate models for any number of reasons. I can't ever remember a situation where a RF amp didn't play louder with less distortion than the amp(s) it replaced.

Granted, I'm not talking about anything super high end like McIntosh or Zapco, etc but for just about any everyday system RF is a solid choice. The one exception I have personally owned and listened to extensively was the Mmats 6150.

I never should have let that one go. Best amp I have ever had.


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## Benny Edward (Jul 19, 2019)

I always loved my old school eclipse amps. I had a 4 channel that I bi amped to a set of diamond hex components, can't remember the exact model of the amp but it was their most powerful 4 channel at the time and it was a marked improvement on sound quality over several others I tried at the time which would have been in the 2006-2008 time frame. 
I just picked up a pair of Xtant X604 amps that I'm hoping I can speak favorably in this thread when I get them hooked up in my buddies F350 work truck. I've heard nothing but raving reviews of these old Xtant amps. locating the proper sip chips for my install has been an ordeal though


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## YellowC4S (Nov 25, 2008)

Used to be my a/d/s Power Plates. Now it's Arc Audio SE's


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## PaperLion (Aug 15, 2019)

YellowC4S said:


> Used to be my a/d/s Power Plates. Now it's Arc Audio SE's


Yup I had a 6x50 a/d/s powerplate back in the 90s that powered a pair of polyglass component sets and a jl 8 inch mini sub in my first car. Corolla. That system sounded amazing to me. The D type amps I've had since then just don't have the same qualities sonically. That sucker would overheat, though.


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## Stevens4x (Mar 22, 2011)

Adcom (4404) was amazing on my mbquarts back in 94 or so. It was my best and easiest setup with my Punch 150 on 2 15’s. It’s crossover was placed as close to in-dash as possible then ran balanced cables. Truly crystal clear sound. 
Before that we got into Audio Art cause they were less expensive than Fosgate. We didn’t know what we had in Audio Art. Never distorted! I’ve always regretted selling mine


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

I'm really interested to see how Tony of D'Amore Engineering's new Class-A (very expensive) and small Class-D amps perform.

*D'Amore Engineering Car Audio Amplifiers*

You kind of expect great things from the man who developed the Amp Dyno and other high-end test instruments. 

The D'Amore Engineering amps are shown briefly in one of the recent Dallas KnowledgeFest YouTube videos by Dean & Fernando of _5 Star Car Stereo_.


And it would be interesting if Nelson Pass designed a new car audio amp based on his "S.I.T." home audiophile amps. Through his testing with many listeners, he & his team discovered a "preferred ratio" of 2nd- to 3rd-order harmonic distortion.

The SIT amplifiers were very low distortion overall to start with, but the ratio and level of 2nd & 3rd order harmonic distortion could be adjusted with a front panel knob on his SIT-series amps.

There's a really good recent Q&A interview with Nelson Pass on Steve Guttenberg's _Audiophilliac_ YouTube channel where Nelson mentions the importance of the use and choice of the proper combination of high-quality components for each amplifier topology, and the importance of phase linearity.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Is there any indication than Nelson is looking into car audio or his wishes on your part..?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

dcfis said:


> Is there any indication than Nelson is looking into car audio or his wishes on your part..?


Sadly, no. That's just a personal pipe dream.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

bbfoto said:


> Sadly, no. That's just a personal pipe dream.


He did just do a surprising powered speaker project with small 20 and 40 watt class a integrated with DSP. So.... Maybe


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

my favourites beside SS DaVinci (not pictured)


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> I'm really interested to see how Tony of D'Amore Engineering's new Class-A (very expensive) and small Class-D amps perform.
> 
> *D'Amore Engineering Car Audio Amplifiers*


The small D'Amore amps aren't Class D, they're actually Class AB. Juan Rodriguez explained that the heatsink/fan design is the key to it's effective and efficient cooling, which in-turn allows for such a smallish form factor.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Mullings said:


> After thinking about all the amps I’ve used and listened to I came to the conclusion that the best amp I’ve ever heard/ used is McIntosh because they just disappear, no sound signature, not warm, cold or sterile just pure uncolored sound. Everything other amplifier I’ve listened to makes their presence know in a good or bad way but I would rather one that is completely neutral.


I can't prove what my ears heard but I've had the same feeling in cars that had McIntosh power. I had a similar experience with my Zapco ST-X amps. I'd like to hear your impressions on the Helix G-series amps. I think mine is brilliant for the money and the a/b end of it is running some VERY detailed speakers.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

ErinH said:


> I don't really get in to amplifier sounds discussions. I'll just say I had no issues to speak of with the sonics of the amplifier. I'll also say it's hard to rival the beauty of it in any capacity. lol


Is that amp going to make an appearance in the new sled or are you gonna stick with your more modern amps that don't need a nuclear reactor to stay fed?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> I don't think there are many true class A amps, I just used class A as shorthand for class A/B, since that's pretty common. And I didn't mean that the Memphis is great, it's just really good sounding, not reliable though.


That's a shame on the Memphis amps these days. I remember the Mclass amps being pretty bulletproof. Really laid back sounding. I had am mc300 and mc150 back in the day and also an mca3004 and mcd500. The board on the mc300 was a work of art.


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## Benny Edward (Jul 19, 2019)

Just got that old Xtant X604 tuned in my buddies F-350 crew cab. Not sure if it's the Mille Legend 1650.3 speakers or this amp but it is blowing my mind for SQ after only mild tuning on a fairly basic double din ExCelon HU we got for $180 that was the only go for double Din with HD radio. Loving the Xovers in these newer HUs. 15 years ago I would have paid $1200 to get the functionality of these 24db/oct crossovers in even a basic HU.
This Xtant has left me stunned though. I've ran mostly diamond hexs in the past, with a few other brands top tier speakers demoed in between including BA, MB quarts, ID minihorns, and before this Xtant, I loved those Eclipse amps. The Diamond audio D7s and even D5s were great too. PPI art series were cool. I agree with the other poster that said Fosgate is always ole reliable. Had a lot of em, never had one fail and seen em beat to death physically and sonically. Maybe it's the other newer gear, but to my ears this recent install with this Xtant has left me with a yearning for to get back into this hobby. Love it.


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## YellowC4S (Nov 25, 2008)

I had a couple of those Xtant 604x's running a Dynaudio system 360 in my Audi back in the day.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I had an xtant 604x running Boston pros way back. Great amps for sure


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