# 8" Sub Opinions Wanted



## Grizz Archer

Just thought I would throw this out there. My company did not want me to make an 8" sub because they felt it would not sell well and be a waste of time and money. They finally gave in but did not allow me to spend any money on tooling. Today, the SS and PPI 8" are selling very, very well. I am making a bigger, badder 8" sub and made my first samples and have them next to me now.

So here if where I want opinions. I looked at the some of the better 8" that look decent to me. Wow! I cannot believe how much they differ. The range from 300-500 watts, but 300 seems to be the most popular without the woofer becoming stupid expensive. Xmax ranges from 10-22mm. Efficiency ranges from 76-85dB. The Fs ranges from 23-48Hz. And pricing ranges from $140-$420.

Question is, what is selling best? Do people want the higher Fs for "efficiency"? Do they want the lower Fs so they sound like larger subs? My samples are as follows:

Dual spider
Dual 40 oz Y35 magnets
High roll surround
79dB
19mm LINEAR xmax with 10mm top plate
37Hz Fs (I took the middle range)
And considerably less expensive than the competition, or WAY better than anything lower priced. J

Some people are hung up on efficiency and do not look at over all displacement. Some are hung up on power handling. Some like the really low bass like our current 8" that sound like bigger woofers. Etc etc. 

Requesting opinions on what has the most respect and sells the best in the 8" spl sub marketplace...

Thanx


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## totalmayhem

Grizz Archer said:


> Just thought I would throw this out there. My company did not want me to make an 8" sub because they felt it would not sell well and be a waste of time and money. They finally gave in but did not allow me to spend any money on tooling. Today, the SS and PPI 8" are selling very, very well. I am making a bigger, badder 8" sub and made my first samples and have them next to me now.
> 
> So here if where I want opinions. I looked at the some of the better 8" that look decent to me. Wow! I cannot believe how much they differ. The range from 300-500 watts, but 300 seems to be the most popular without the woofer becoming stupid expensive. Xmax ranges from 10-22mm. Efficiency ranges from 76-85dB. The Fs ranges from 23-48Hz. And pricing ranges from $140-$420.
> 
> Question is, what is selling best? Do people want the higher Fs for "efficiency"? Do they want the lower Fs so they sound like larger subs? My samples are as follows:
> 
> Dual spider
> Dual 40 oz Y35 magnets
> High roll surround
> 79dB
> 19mm LINEAR xmax with 10mm top plate
> 37Hz Fs (I took the middle range)
> And considerably less expensive than the competition, or WAY better than anything lower priced. J
> 
> Some people are hung up on efficiency and do not look at over all displacement. Some are hung up on power handling. Some like the really low bass like our current 8" that sound like bigger woofers. Etc etc.
> 
> Requesting opinions on what has the most respect and sells the best in the 8" spl sub marketplace...
> 
> Thanx


If we are looking at this from an spl aspect, then at the moment the Sundown SA8 looks like the woofer to beat. It does most if not all of the above mentioned. It has the ability to sound like a "big sub" effortlessly, it is VERY efficent, it can play extremely low (ive seen one play 25hz full tilt no problem) and also can take double+ rms(which is 400) power daily without fail, distortion, or fatigue. The best thing is, it actually sounds "good" on all types of music, in both ported and sealed enclosures, and on all power levels. Lastley at $99, its price vs performance is hard to beat. I hope this helps you out a little.


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## Grizz Archer

totalmayhem said:


> If we are looking at this from an spl aspect, then at the moment the Sundown SA8 looks like the woofer to beat. It does most if not all of the above mentioned. It has the ability to sound like a "big sub" effortlessly, it is VERY efficent, it can play extremely low (ive seen one play 25hz full tilt no problem) and also can take double+ rms(which is 400) power daily without fail, distortion, or fatigue. The best thing is, it actually sounds "good" on all types of music, in both ported and sealed enclosures, and on all power levels. Lastley at $99, its price vs performance is hard to beat. I hope this helps you out a little.


It does help, thanx. That was one I looked at. My current samples are conservatively rated lower for power, have 3.2mm more excursion linear, similar eff, less money and lower Fs. But that is my whole question for everybody... Would people prefer a higher FS because while I found a couple subs with lower Fs and a couple the same, most were 5-11Hz higher... 

I know diff people want diff things, but based on my own taste, I would want something in middle of the range. I do not want to make a high Fs burp driver and if somebody wants really low for SQ, then I already got them covered. Actually, the samples have nearly identical response in the same enclosures as our current models, but just WAY beefed up throughout. That is why I am not sue if I want to go a different route or not...


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## totalmayhem

I like the concept you have come up with and a sub that fits in the "middle" such as this with what seems would be VERY competitive pricing. It should fair very well in both the sq and spl worlds. Id try it lol.


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## rexroadj

Well I am an 8" fanatic and do consider myself somewhat of a sq oriented person. However, when shopping for an 8" driver (I am speaking of myself of course) I want an eight that can keep up with a high volume setup (I want some serious output). If someone could make an 8" driver like some of the bigger sql woofers I would be in heaven. NO ONE has done this yet. When I say bigger sql woofers I am talking about subs like the IDMAX, JBL GTI, etc....... You can get super output, very good power handling, and superb SQ! You make an 8" sub like that and I will buy one right now..... As it sits right now I am forced to look at a sub like an 8" L7 for my current setup because I need output and I can get it to sound pretty good (would like better but......the market is just not there for my needs) The W7 is also another good option but too deep for my situation  THATS WHAT I WANT......AND ALWAYS HAVE! 
High output, great sounding driver that can fit in a ported enclosure of about a cube, and take around 500w would be my dream sub!!! I cant imagine who wouldnt want that?


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## totalmayhem

Grizz you have me all excited lol, any pictures?!?


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## subwoofery

If I had to add something, it would be: "what kind of enclosure?" 
If you want it to be a small small smallish sealed subwoofer, then I recommend you look at the TC Sounds Epic 8" parameters - the smaller enclosure, the better for a good freq response but for good output, you need @ least 400rms... 
The Epic is not suited for ported coz it needs a small ported enclosure with a tube too long in order to be practical. If you make the enclosure too big, it would have a peak to high to cut down with an EQ - that would make for a crazy SPL setup though for those that don't care about an in-car flat freq (cabin gain accounted). 

If you want it to be a ported only sub, then as stated earlier, the Sundown is tough to beat... 

Kelvin


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## Danometal

I prefer low Fs personally for SQ, and generally one can just throw some power to it to get loud. No matter what sub size I may look at, as soon as I see a high Fs, I look elsewhere. And, many people like to port 8s to counter the lack of cone area.

BTW, why does Sonicelectronix no longer carry Soundstream or PPI anymore? That made me really sad, because I wanted a Rubicon recently. I ended up going with a Boston GTA-1000m.


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## trojan fan

rexroadj said:


> Well I am an 8" fanatic and do consider myself somewhat of a sq oriented person. However, when shopping for an 8" driver (I am speaking of myself of course) I want an eight that can keep up with a high volume setup (I want some serious output). If someone could make an 8" driver like some of the bigger sql woofers I would be in heaven. NO ONE has done this yet. When I say bigger sql woofers I am talking about subs like the IDMAX, JBL GTI, etc....... You can get super output, very good power handling, and superb SQ! You make an 8" sub like that and I will buy one right now..... As it sits right now I am forced to look at a sub like an 8" L7 for my current setup because I need output and I can get it to sound pretty good (would like better but......the market is just not there for my needs) The W7 is also another good option but too deep for my situation  THATS WHAT I WANT......AND ALWAYS HAVE!
> High output, great sounding driver that can fit in a ported enclosure of about a cube, and take around 500w would be my dream sub!!! I cant imagine who wouldnt want that?


What happened with..http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...arisons/106292-alpine-swr-823d-game-over.html 

Jim is not going to be happy with you....:bash:

Trader :laugh:


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## trojan fan

Alpine Type R 8" and a JBL GTO804 mixed together.....


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## AAAAAAA

Next step grizz is to make a 6x9 drop in IB subwoofer for rear deck of cars.

The problem I find with 8's is usually they need the same box sixe as a 10...this making it useless. Like someone else mentioned, it's all in the box.


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## trojan fan

AAAAAAA said:


> Next step grizz is to make a 6x9 drop in IB subwoofer for rear deck of cars.
> 
> The problem I find with 8's is usually they need the same box sixe as a 10...this making it useless. Like someone else mentioned, it's all in the box.


x2....exactly....sounds like a great idea.....Help us out Grizz


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## Micksh

I remember way back in the early 90's a company called Black Magic had those 6x9 subs....lol


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## BowDown

Danometal said:


> I prefer low Fs personally for SQ, and generally one can just throw some power to it to get loud. No matter what sub size I may look at, as soon as I see a high Fs, I look elsewhere. And, many people like to port 8s to counter the lack of cone area.


Exactly my thoughts.


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## rexroadj

trojan fan said:


> What happened with..http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...arisons/106292-alpine-swr-823d-game-over.html
> 
> Jim is not going to be happy with you....:bash:
> 
> Trader :laugh:


Hey, dont get me wrong! That Alpine type R's are amazing and in the price bracket are unbeatable and anyone that wanted to make another sub similar to it will probably still do well. Two of them ported in my center console (1.4 tuned to 32) was PERFECT in my truck. My current situation does not allow for the pair ported and I really dont think two 8s of any kind is going to give me enough nor will one of them ported? I need more output out of a small enclosure but still has to be a small woofer (I need the impossible really? or a L7 or w7 if I could fit it). I still love the alpine type R's as well as Grizz and the art sq8s. I just dont see either one working for me in my current situation. So I need a 8" superwoofer (ala- w7, idmax, or even something like the soundstream Ref R1 (what ever the model is.....the big one I know thats not your design Grizz but its pretty slick
Obviously my needs are of the TINY % of the market so its never going to happen.....BUT it could be the first one of its kind (aside from the W7). Another 8" sub that was great is the crystal CMP8.... that may be a way to go? 
And why on earth would you want to blend a gto and swr???? the swr already stomps all over the gto (and I love the gto....again price point its stellar) but seriously.....mixing the two would mean down grading the swr????


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## NucFusion

AAAAAAA said:


> Next step grizz is to make a 6x9 drop in IB subwoofer for rear deck of cars.
> 
> The problem I find with 8's is usually they need the same box sixe as a 10...this making it useless. Like someone else mentioned, it's all in the box.


Definitely agree. I would love to see a true IB or any subwoofer system that could just drop in already existing 6x9 holes on the rear deck. I personally think any company that could come up with an innovative approach to utilizing the 6x9 holes that are in nearly every car and could get quality sub bass on par with some of these 8's or 10's would do very well in the current marketplace. So many people are looking to add sub bass to factory systems, but aren't too interested in losing all their trunk/hatch space for a giant enclosure.

I feel the same way about the box needed for 8's. There are so many 10 inch options out right now that can easily fit into small enclosures that I personally prefer the extra cone area. Also, most of the higher output 8 inch drivers are just as deep as the 10's, so really, they don't save you any space.


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## rexroadj

NucFusion said:


> Definitely agree. I would love to see a true IB or any subwoofer system that could just drop in already existing 6x9 holes on the rear deck. I personally think any company that could come up with an innovative approach to utilizing the 6x9 holes that are in nearly every car and could get quality sub bass on par with some of these 8's or 10's would do very well in the current marketplace. So many people are looking to add sub bass to factory systems, but aren't too interested in losing all their trunk/hatch space for a giant enclosure.
> 
> I feel the same way about the box needed for 8's. There are so many 10 inch options out right now that can easily fit into small enclosures that I personally prefer the extra cone area. Also, most of the higher output 8 inch drivers are just as deep as the 10's, so really, they don't save you any space.


Depth and diameter are two different things! In my situation I am limited in depth but I am more limited in diameter (probably not the only one either) SO yes.....8s can still save a great amount of space

As far as everyone talking about the 6x9s........Kicker did it for many years and stopped....Why? no market. Crystal did it..... and more recently cadence did it (maybe still does?) They are out there (the kicker ones were pretty great in ib rear deck drop ins...) I highly doubt Grizz and the Epsilon group is going to waste money on that tiny market....


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## Micksh

The Sundown is actually a good example. I have one in a ported center console enclosure in a minivan, and I can say I really like it. Nice sound quality, decent output (around 128 db clean) and it has about 450 watts running it and it handles it no problem. Probably the only thing you could maybe do to upgrade over something like it would be a little larger voice coil if possible (it has a 2"). It tends to heat up pretty quickly, though it hasn't caused any issues for me. Definitely a good woofer at a nice price.


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## trojan fan

rexroadj said:


> And why on earth would you want to blend a gto and swr???? the swr already stomps all over the gto (and I love the gto....again price point its stellar) but seriously.....mixing the two would mean down grading the swr????


You just answered the question :laugh:


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## FAUEE

If you're looking at it as a SPL sub, those SPL guys like big loud subs that shake their entire cars and flex and have absurd xmax. Their solution to most issues is to get a bigger amp typically.

That said, if you're looking at it as a general product, you've got to keep in mind why people buy 8s. Size. I run an 8" L7 right now because, well, all the 10s were too deep for my stealth enclosure. So subs like the Sundown 8 make no sense to me, as they're very deep for an 8, and I could get a 10" with similar depth.

To me, an 8" superwoofer doesn't make any sense as by that point you're able to fit a larger diameter normal woofer that handles the same power and puts out the same or more bass, even deeper. An 8" woofer that can handle goo power, sound good, and has good output, while still making a case for itself in lower mounting depth does make sense to me though.


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## rexroadj

trojan fan said:


> You just answered the question :laugh:


????? Makes even less sense????? 
If you want to down grade the swr (no clue why?) then just get the GTO or ID8, polk, etc........ Please elaborate for my little head


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## Micksh

Actually, the reason I get the Sundown was in a center console in my van, I couldn't go wide enough to comfortably fit a 10" or more. The SA-8 made perfect sense for my situation. I think many guys buy the bigger 8's like Sundown or TC Sounds because they like to impress people with an 8" woofer, plus they fit in small space requirements for many...


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## AAAAAAA

rexroadj said:


> ????? Makes even less sense?????
> If you want to down grade the swr (no clue why?) then just get the GTO or ID8, polk, etc........ Please elaborate for my little head


It' simple, swr performance at gto price.


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## Danometal

What's so bad about the GTO?


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## rexroadj

Danometal said:


> What's so bad about the GTO?


Nothing wrong with the GTO at all (imo of course) but its just not a SWR. In my experience the SWR outperforms the gto in pretty much every aspect (in my opinion output and impact its not even close). I still think for the $$$ the SWR is a great bargain! I also feel for the $$$ the gto is also great but they (again IMO) should not be "compaired" hence the price difference (lets not start the debate that just because something cost more means its better....thats not what I am saying. I am just saying that they swr cost more and it should!)


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## rexroadj

FAUEE said:


> To me, an 8" superwoofer doesn't make any sense as by that point you're able to fit a larger diameter normal woofer that handles the same power and puts out the same or more bass, even deeper. An 8" woofer that can handle goo power, sound good, and has good output, while still making a case for itself in lower mounting depth does make sense to me though.


I agree to a point.....like I said, my situation is likely a TINY market (although probably not as small as the 6x9 thing).....But its the market I am in now... and some companys have done great with deep subs (again, not going to help me but....) look at the JBL GTI, W7, TDX, etc...... Why would someone get those 10's, 12's, etc.... over any other if the depth is huge..... Because they still have benefits. Just because its deep doesnt take away from the little diameter. I really cant squeeze in a 10" without some crazy work so an 8" is what I am after. (however for output I have to go ported, which I dont mind) I can fit the depth of w7 but I would rather save the space for my storage portion of my center console. I dont think the woofer has to be "super" deep to be a super woofer though.


If they could make a 8" version of the PPI PC subs (the series that got the great report from the 15" version)..... would be great for me? More power handling, great sound and great range and would most likely have a reasonably sized ported enclosure..... I love the 12" version of that sub!!


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## Oscar

I usually don't care for subs smaller than 10", but if someone made an 8in "stroker" aka: Cerwin-Vega style with an ultra low Qts, mediumish Fs and Vas, low inductance, with at least 15mm of linear Xmax, I'd be all over that. Of course it would need a severe-duty 3" coil with at least 600w rms handling, and that classic top-mounted spider with a center post.


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## trojan fan

rexroadj said:


> ????? Makes even less sense?????
> If you want to down grade the swr (no clue why?) then just get the GTO or ID8, polk, etc........ Please elaborate for my little head



Did that really go right over the top of your little head :laugh:


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## trojan fan

AAAAAAA said:


> It' simple, swr performance at gto price.



Bingo....rexroadj thanks you for the help with his question


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## trojan fan

rexroadj said:


> Is that where he was going with it?????? That sure doesnt make sense by what he wrote! (downgrading the swr?)
> 
> I dont really care, I just thought that it was going to be some well thought out fact about why the GTO and SWR would be a good "mix" and.............................................................


There is no need to over think all this :bash:


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## trojan fan

rexroadj said:


> Is that where he was going with it?????? That sure doesnt make sense by what he wrote! (downgrading the swr?)
> 
> I dont really care, I just thought that it was going to be some well thought out fact about why the GTO and SWR would be a good "mix" and.............................................................



So would you rather pay $55 for a SWR or $110.....that's what I thought :laugh:


Where are you from


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## trojan fan

rexroadj said:


> So saying mixing the two says all that?????
> I didnt get what your were trying to get at with mixing the two. It was that simple. I asked you to elaborate your statement, as I was curious what it meant. Instead you chose to be a dick (as usual)
> I am not going to ruin this thread by going back and forth with you with all your stupid one line statements (that 90% of the time are just to be negative for no reason). Is it just to build your post count? Seriously go look at the last 25 posts you have made and tell me how many are actually saying something and how many are just to be a dick?
> 
> So, besides trying to get something for nothing.....what exactly are you looking for in an 8" woofer per the thread????? Or was all this just another typical one liner to be an ass?


Yes it was that simple, but you did not get it, that's a YOU problem, so instead you just decided to call me a dick :bash:

If you don't like my posts then don't read or respond to them...hypocrite

Last time I checked I have more members thanking me in posts than you do:beerchug:


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## subwoofery

Unsubs'... Seems like there's a lot of off-topic (and thread-jacking) thing going on in threads lately. 

Kelvin


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## trojan fan

subwoofery said:


> Unsubs'... Seems like there's a lot of off-topic (and thread-jacking) thing going on in threads lately.
> 
> Kelvin


**** happens :laugh:

Now back to your regular scheduled program


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## oldno7brand

rexroadj said:


> I am not going to ruin this thread by going back and forth with you with all your stupid one line statements (that 90% of the time are just to be negative for no reason). Is it just to build your post count? Seriously go look at the last 25 posts you have made and tell me how many are actually saying something and how many are just to be a dick?


Off topic but :lol: I want to use this as my new forum quote everywhere


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## totalmayhem

any updates?


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## Grizz Archer

trojan fan said:


> x2....exactly....sounds like a great idea.....Help us out Grizz


Already have done some of those, but they would not sell much so Epsilon will not let me do it, more than likely...


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## AAAAAAA

Grizz Archer said:


> Already have done some of those, but they would not sell much so Epsilon will not let me do it, more than likely...


I think it's all about

1)The adapter that they would come with

2)They have to be heavy duty and priced to look premium (of course not rediculously so).

IMO an 89$ 6x9 subwoofer won't look cool enough. Maybe closer to 200 should make it interesting enough to not look to cheep (and not be cheep) and also be within reach of most.


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## AAAAAAA

I got it....

A monster IB 8 that COMES with 6x9 brakets for easy install in rear shelfs. yeaaaaaaaah....


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## Grizz Archer

totalmayhem said:


> any updates?


If you mean for my new design, I am waiting for second samples now. Redoing some suspension work, adding a faraday ring and, well, just having fun doing the project. 

I found it really interesting how much people disagree about 8" subs. Some think they are useless, while others like me, love small subs for several strong reasons. The fact is, they can do things that 10" subs cannot do as well. They can be extremely versatile as well. I have some some home audio testing enclosures that I use at my house ranging from 1.5 ft^3 down to .6, all with very low tuning. Despite the false beliefs that small subs cannot play low or tat large subs cannot be transient, I demand both and can get awesome transient response and insane bottom end out of a well engineered 8".


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## rexroadj

Grizz Archer said:


> If you mean for my new design, I am waiting for second samples now. Redoing some suspension work, adding a faraday ring and, well, just having fun doing the project.
> 
> I found it really interesting how much people disagree about 8" subs. Some think they are useless, while others like me, love small subs for several strong reasons. The fact is, they can do things that 10" subs cannot do as well. They can be extremely versatile as well. I have some some home audio testing enclosures that I use at my house ranging from 1.5 ft^3 down to .6, all with very low tuning. Despite the false beliefs that small subs cannot play low or tat large subs cannot be transient, I demand both and can get awesome transient response and insane bottom end out of a well engineered 8".


X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FYI those art sq8s have incredible low freq response!!!! I look forward to what you guys come up with this go around! Hopefully it will be something that fits the bill for my current build!


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## Grizz Archer

rexroadj said:


> X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> FYI those art sq8s have incredible low freq response!!!! I look forward to what you guys come up with this go around! Hopefully it will be something that fits the bill for my current build!


Wooferwise...

New T7
New R2
New Picasso
New Sw
New Monster 8


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## rexroadj

Grizz Archer said:


> Wooferwise...
> 
> New T7
> New R2
> New Picasso
> New Sw
> New Monster 8


And we can see these......when?


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## subwoofery

rexroadj said:


> And we can see these......when?


SEMA maybe  

Kelvin


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## Grizz Archer

subwoofery said:


> SEMA maybe
> 
> Kelvin


I'll be at SEMA with my ride, but we do not have a booth there. We already leaked a T7 photo on Facebook, but it is just a matter of having a chance to take a photo and post it...


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## Schriever sound

Oscar said:


> I usually don't care for subs smaller than 10", but if someone made an 8in "stroker" aka: Cerwin-Vega style with an ultra low Qts, mediumish Fs and Vas, low inductance, with at least 15mm of linear Xmax, I'd be all over that. Of course it would need a severe-duty 3" coil with at least 600w rms handling, and that classic top-mounted spider with a center post.


Amen:beerchug!


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## [email protected]

Any updates yet??


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## Grizz Archer

bumplime said:


> Any updates yet??


First samples sounded killer, but the suspension limited the potential of the driver. Second samples were more like ultra high excursion midbass drivers. Still working on it...


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## chithead

Interesting... I too find as my listening matures, so do my requirements. Smaller subs do intrigue me, especially being able to mount them in other locations towards the front of the cabin.


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## Grizz Archer

chithead said:


> Interesting... I too find as my listening matures, so do my requirements. Smaller subs do intrigue me, especially being able to mount them in other locations towards the front of the cabin.


Exactly. I have always loved small subs. Being a former bass player for a metal band, and a hard rock fanatic, I find that the smaller subs are so badass when it comes to transient response, especial if the drummer has double kick bass drums like Pantera for example. Even some of the best larger drivers tend to slur the impact beats. Until the last few years, I was not a big fan of many 8" so I would mass load them myself. But now, there are several great 8" from various companies. My SS and PPI 8" (identical) have a low Fs and can drop down to the bottom octave with ease. Sure, it costs a bit of efficiency compared to some of the high Fs efficiency spl-type 8" subs, but the response is way worth it. I started with 2 in my Jeep. Worked surprisingly well. Not to ever be content, I put in 2 more and built a low tuned vented enclosure tuned to 26Hz. Holy crap Batman! I could hear my bass with the top and doors off going down the freeway. Perfect! Buuuuuuut, now I have 7 "because I needed a bigger box that could double as a table in the cargo area". Hey, I can justify it anyway I want, right? lol I have way too much bass on tap, but I DO use it at times when I want to be an immature rock monster and blow the rap gumbos off the road... LOL Wow, I really am an immature idiot, but I'm cool with that...


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## chithead

That is what I am contemplating now, a pair of 8" up front for the lower midbass and upper subbass, then use a bigger sub to take care of the low lows.


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## Grizz Archer

chithead said:


> That is what I am contemplating now, a pair of 8" up front for the lower midbass and upper subbass, then use a bigger sub to take care of the low lows.


2 things... We put a vented pair in our tech guys cars and they played to low. Then we put in 4 sealed and they still played too low so we need to build smaller boxes. Do not underestimate the extension of a well engineered 8". There are some very good 8" out there that will drop more than a lot of the newer designed 12" and 15" that are focused on efficiency. Personally, my system leaves nothing to be desired in the lowest frequencies... Hell, just try one. They're not expensive!


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## AUDIO_GOD

Grizz Archer said:


> 2 things... We put a vented pair in our tech guys cars and they played to low. Then we put in 4 sealed and they still played too low so we need to build smaller boxes. Do not underestimate the extension of a well engineered 8". There are some very good 8" out there that will drop more than a lot of the newer designed 12" and 15" that are focused on efficiency. Personally, my system leaves nothing to be desired in the lowest frequencies... Hell, just try one. They're not expensive!


say i was gonna do 4 in a 2005 caddy deville what size box would you recomend and how much power to make it just go nuts and would i need a epicenter???


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## Grizz Archer

AUDIO_GOD said:


> say i was gonna do 4 in a 2005 caddy deville what size box would you recomend and how much power to make it just go nuts and would i need a epicenter???


Size - depends on sealed or vented, obviously. Sound alike you are looking for more SPL than SQ. .75ft^3 each, tuned to 34-36Hz would be nice. If you are a bottom end fanatic, do a cube each tuned in the upper 20s. 

Power - Minimum of 300 watts, and up to about 750.

Epicenter - If you build the box to what you are truly looking for, there would be no need for any processing because they will do whatever you like. BL is king baby! Now, if you water some small, tight sealed enclosures, then you could use one for a little eq bump in the bottom octave. Likewise, if you build a larger enclosure with really low tuning, an upper "punchy" eq bump could be done too. Just depends on your taste. While I have a JBL MS-8, I spent 5 minutes to do the setup and time alignment, and never touch the eq. I just donut need it most of the time since I do not compete in SQ.


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## AUDIO_GOD

Grizz Archer said:


> Size - depends on sealed or vented, obviously. Sound alike you are looking for more SPL than SQ. .75ft^3 each, tuned to 34-36Hz would be nice. If you are a bottom end fanatic, do a cube each tuned in the upper 20s.
> 
> Power - Minimum of 300 watts, and up to about 750.
> 
> Epicenter - If you build the box to what you are truly looking for, there would be no need for any processing because they will do whatever you like. BL is king baby! Now, if you water some small, tight sealed enclosures, then you could use one for a little eq bump in the bottom octave. Likewise, if you build a larger enclosure with really low tuning, an upper "punchy" eq bump could be done too. Just depends on your taste. While I have a JBL MS-8, I spent 5 minutes to do the setup and time alignment, and never touch the eq. I just donut need it most of the time since I do not compete in SQ.


ok the power is for each sub or total???? and i am a bottom octave freak the box will be ported in the high 20's probably 28 thats a good number


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## Grizz Archer

AUDIO_GOD said:


> ok the power is for each sub or total???? and i am a bottom octave freak the box will be ported in the high 20's probably 28 thats a good number


That is total power. I am getting ready to make a radical downs to some new micro amps we are coming out with. Each amp is only 4.3" x 9" and they are the largest of the series. They will fit perfectly on my interior roll cage. Want a good sized system, without a buttload of big ass amps and batteries all over the place. Nearly invisible system that takes up zero usable space with exception of the box...


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## trojan fan

Grizz Archer said:


> That is total power. I am getting ready to make a radical downs to some new micro amps we are coming out with. Each amp is only 4.3" x 9" and they are the largest of the series. They will fit perfectly on my interior roll cage.


Grizz

Can you give us some details on the new amps you are talking about?

Are you guys going to have a booth at CES?.....thanks


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## [email protected]

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## AAAAAAA

Grizz Archer said:


> That is total power. I am getting ready to make a radical downs to some new micro amps we are coming out with. Each amp is only 4.3" x 9" and they are the largest of the series. They will fit perfectly on my interior roll cage. Want a good sized system, without a buttload of big ass amps and batteries all over the place. Nearly invisible system that takes up zero usable space with exception of the box...


Nice sounds very interesting.


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## Grizz Archer

trojan fan said:


> Grizz
> 
> Can you give us some details on the new amps you are talking about?
> 
> Are you guys going to have a booth at CES?.....thanks


I'm not really at liberty to tell you about the Tarantula NANO series which will be the same as the PPI Phantom amps. And I can't tell you that the Phantom P1000.1 was underrated by 200 watts so the NANO will be rate at 1200 instead of 1000. And don't bother trying to get me to talk about the Picasso NANO series which would be a 4.3" wide chassis series that will come in 4x50 and 4x90 and 1x400and 1x600. I just cannot divulge all of this stuff because some gumby thought many years ago that secrets were cool.

As for CES, yes we will be there (of freaking course), even though most companies do not feel that CES is important anymore. We will have a brand new booth that is a lot simpler and ergonomic. 4 years ago when I started here, the show took up all of the North Hall, 1-4. Not the car audio section can fit in half of N4 (1/8 of what it was). Rockford left years ago, JL is gone, Kicker is in the central hall with home stuff, etc. It just is not what it used to be. But hell yeah, we'll be there cocked and loaded with everything we make, including a few new home offerings that I cannot tell you about either.

There, now do you understand why I cannot tell you anything?


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## rexroadj

I can speak on behalf of the ppi 8s being able to play disturbingly low!! I was astonished by there ability in that realm!!!! In the spring I am having some work done on the jeep and am probably going to break down and put in the underbody enclosures to mount comps/subs in the front floors I am loving the idea of an 8" and ppi pc2 ways on each side off a p900.4 (obviously each enclosure would be devided giving the sub .4 or so and the comps a little less probably....dont know, I will iron out those details in the spring. Griz...... do you see any issues with this configuration? This way all the sound will be up front and I can add a removable box in the rear.... (probably pc15

So.......whats cooking in the home department  Just finished and furnished our second living room/listening room. All thats left is audio........


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## Dzaazter

Any deals on some ppi a8sq's? Please PM me. Looking for some of these.


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## Grizz Archer

rexroadj said:


> I can speak on behalf of the ppi 8s being able to play disturbingly low!! I was astonished by there ability in that realm!!!! In the spring I am having some work done on the jeep and am probably going to break down and put in the underbody enclosures to mount comps/subs in the front floors I am loving the idea of an 8" and ppi pc2 ways on each side off a p900.4 (obviously each enclosure would be devided giving the sub .4 or so and the comps a little less probably....dont know, I will iron out those details in the spring. Griz...... do you see any issues with this configuration? This way all the sound will be up front and I can add a removable box in the rear.... (probably pc15
> 
> So.......whats cooking in the home department  Just finished and furnished our second living room/listening room. All thats left is audio........


Yeah, I'm cool with that. I would not do it solely to et up front bass, but rather just to have something when the rear box is out. But I still think you would like the 3-ways with the 2.5" and tweeter on the A-pillar...


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## Audiophyle

I have always been a fan of 8" subs, but an Audiopulse Epic took it to another level.
The best enclosure I had it in was a small ported box (stoopid long port btw) tuned for around 26hz, and that sub was so loud, dug insanely deep, and was still crisp as hell at high volume, and no one ever believed it was an 8" until actually seeing it.

I think there is a market for heavy hitting 8's, because how many people on here only run a single Alpine SWR 8? There are plenty of 8's out there capable of decent output levels with good quality, but anytime people want lots of bass they have to run several at a time. I just put 6 swr8's in an F150, and yes it was clean and loud but not as loud as I had expected them to be. Design an 8" capable of great things & market it as such, and Im sure many would rather run a single sub if they knew it would deliver. 


One thing Id really like to see in a monster 8" is a neo magnet. The only problem I have with the Epics & similar subs is the magnets are damn near the same size as the cutouts and just as deep as it is wide, so even being a small sub it still requires lots of room behind the mounting location. High travel pretty much negates the idea of making the subs shallower, but if a neo mag could be stuffed inside the VC the back end of the sub could be narrowed down & install options would really open up.


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## Grizz Archer

Audiophyle said:


> I have always been a fan of 8" subs, but an Audiopulse Epic took it to another level.
> The best enclosure I had it in was a small ported box (stoopid long port btw) tuned for around 26hz, and that sub was so loud, dug insanely deep, and was still crisp as hell at high volume, and no one ever believed it was an 8" until actually seeing it.
> 
> I think there is a market for heavy hitting 8's, because how many people on here only run a single Alpine SWR 8? There are plenty of 8's out there capable of decent output levels with good quality, but anytime people want lots of bass they have to run several at a time. I just put 6 swr8's in an F150, and yes it was clean and loud but not as loud as I had expected them to be. Design an 8" capable of great things & market it as such, and Im sure many would rather run a single sub if they knew it would deliver.
> 
> 
> One thing Id really like to see in a monster 8" is a neo magnet. The only problem I have with the Epics & similar subs is the magnets are damn near the same size as the cutouts and just as deep as it is wide, so even being a small sub it still requires lots of room behind the mounting location. High travel pretty much negates the idea of making the subs shallower, but if a neo mag could be stuffed inside the VC the back end of the sub could be narrowed down & install options would really open up.


Thanx for the feedback. Here is the problem with neo that few people know about yet... Neos primary home is in China. The price is Neo went up 500% this year!!! In 2012 you WILL see products using neo go up in cost, regardless of what the product or company is. Unless they want to lose money. You will also see many Neo products converted over to Ferrite. I can tell you now that two of our skis will go up 30% due to this, and the only reason I am keeping the product is because it has done extremely well for us, won titles, and is priced at 1/2 of what anything comparable was. Otherwise, I would be all over a Neo 8"!!


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## rexroadj

Grizz Archer said:


> Yeah, I'm cool with that. I would not do it solely to et up front bass, but rather just to have something when the rear box is out. But I still think you would like the 3-ways with the 2.5" and tweeter on the A-pillar...


Yeah its not for "front end bass" per say.....more or less just some full sound for, like you said....when the rear 15pc is out 
I WOULD love the 3ways in the A-pillar for sure! I dont have an A-pillar though Or at least not one that is remotely servicable

So........whats cooking in the home audio dept Planning on buying some bookshelfs for a small room asap!!!


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## trojan fan

Audiophyle said:


> I just put 6 swr8's in an F150, and yes it was clean and loud but not as loud as I had expected them to be..


May be it was a lack of horsepower along with enclosure design


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## rexroadj

trojan fan said:


> May be it was a lack of horsepower along with enclosure design


x2! 

Couldnt have been ported w/power thats for damn sure!


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## Grizz Archer

rexroadj said:


> Yeah its not for "front end bass" per say.....more or less just some full sound for, like you said....when the rear 15pc is out
> I WOULD love the 3ways in the A-pillar for sure! I dont have an A-pillar though Or at least not one that is remotely servicable
> 
> So........whats cooking in the home audio dept Planning on buying some bookshelfs for a small room asap!!!


Gotcha. I originally just cut holes in my flat a-pillars and got great results. But now I am going to remove the plastic and glass right to the metal and form my own from scratch. Even a tiny a-pillar could accommodate the 2.5" mid... Drive over here and we drink some home brew and knock some out for ya!

Soundbars to start with while I finish the upper end stuff...


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## voodoosoul

Danometal said:


> I prefer low Fs personally for SQ, and generally one can just throw some power to it to get loud. No matter what sub size I may look at, as soon as I see a high Fs, I look elsewhere. And, many people like to port 8s to counter the lack of cone area.
> 
> BTW, why does Sonicelectronix no longer carry Soundstream or PPI anymore? That made me really sad, because I wanted a Rubicon recently. I ended up going with a Boston GTA-1000m.


onlinecarstereo is the only authorized online dealer for soundstream and PPI so that is why Sonicelectronix do not carry them anymore.


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