# it starts.... the build :)



## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

it's taken long enough, but the Seas drivers are now here. So, I can make a start on the real build.

I was going to techflex everything, I'm still not sure if it's a good idea. 

At the moment, the system is: 
- main amp DLS CA41
- Midbass Seas ER18RNX
- Tweeters Peerless HDS or 27TFFNC/G
- Mids if I need them probably TG9s
- Processor will be a UCS Pro when I get it (it's not here yet)
- Sub is a creative SDX10
- Cables are all DLS
- Source will be a car PC, soundcard possibly a Terratec Phase26 USB, as it has six outputs, but this is also up for consideration. The PC itself is a P III 1Ghz with 512 Ram and an Endurastar 30GB HDD. 7" TFT, no touchscreen. Mini Keyboard and trackball will have to do.

The car is a 2002 Audi A2; it now has two layers of Butyl in the front doors, noxudol on the inner skins and where I could fit it, more Butyl. I'm working on getting some more sound deadening where I can, but that will take time.

First steps are to run in the Seas. I can't really do that properly at the moment, as the UCS isn't here, so I'll have to see what I can do about running the DLS on the bench for a while with a PC supply.

The SDX10 is run in and sounds excellent. Its temporary box is being painted right now and I'll have to go to work in the car at some point next week, as I want to test it properly in the evening with no neighbours 

As far as everything else is concerned, I think I'll try and set the DLS up outside the car and run cables in. That way, I can build the new doorpods (My door cards come apart, so it shouldn't be too difficult - yeah, right - and listen without problems, testing speaker locations. 
I'm hoping I don't need the mids, as that will complicate things and mean I need 7 channels of amplification, which I wasn't intending to do....

Some pics of the latest drivers, install action i will post up at the weekend when I've got some real work done.


And this will take some time, i have very little time during the week and.. well, family has priority 

At least the cabling will not take long, as the battery is in the trunk. I'm not 100% sure on the amp positioning though; i think for the moment they'll be on a base in the trunk (again) and the SDX will get a box in the trunk too. Maybe I'll stick the amps directly below the hatch (they will fit), maybe on one side of the trunk, we'll see.



















Apologies for the dodgy photo quality, they took 5 mins last night after sauna and beer.

I'll update when something real happens 

Bret


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Dodgy photo quality? I think those photos look great! Very artistic.

Good luck with your build Bret!


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## kiko (Feb 1, 2008)

awsome pics man ! can't wait to see your install...


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Techflex isn't required, but of course it's a good idea!


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## Powers (Apr 10, 2008)

Techflex is always a good idea. If only clean cut came in multiple colors.


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## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Powers said:


> Techflex is always a good idea. If only clean cut came in multiple colors.


I think it does here in OZ...

http://www.techflex.biz/index.html

This is an Aussie site, but worth checking anyway?

Those pics are excellent!! 

Keep the updates coming.....

Mark


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Went with the Seas Neo Textiles...nice

I wish the Neo Alum tweeter used a nice grill like that one. Instead of that gay curly Q BS.


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## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

GlasSman said:


> Went with the Seas Neo Textiles...nice
> 
> I wish the Neo Alum tweeter used a nice grill like that one. Instead of that gay curly Q BS.


+1


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## RobD (Jan 28, 2008)

The pics are actually really well done for being "dodgy quality". I think your DOF and lighting are perfect.

Oh, and the install sounds good, too!


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

thanks.

Now, due to the fact that my car won't actually start, I've done zero on the build in the car. No, I don't really know what it is (probably the relay for the fuel pump, which isn't just a fuel relay), and parts will take forever, even when i do know what it is. grr.

Anyway, in the mean time, the drivers are in some 15l sealed enclosures with a foot on the bottom, partially filled with sand (round 10 mugs per side). They're using for the time being the crossovers from my old MBQuart 13cm rear compos.

result? sounds excellent. I'm really looking forward to having this in the car 

They'll be our main speakers in the lounge for a week or so or until I've got the baffles for the car sorted as they sound great and this way running-in is useful 

No, there aren't any pictures, as these boxes are *really* tatty and I do have standards.

OTOH, I now know that the old amp I figured wasn't working any more actually is - an old PC Power supply can work nicely as a test source and that means I have an amp for the SDX10. Considering the level of the ER18s, I'm unconvinced of the need for the TG9s, but if I need it, I now know I have enough amplification. 
Unfortunately, the ER18s are 8 ohm, so I'll test and see what happens. 

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

News: i hate the fact that my car has so many black boxes. It's the "Komfortsteuergerät" and not the relay. Lovely. That means it's another €100 and a week to wait for parts before I can move the car again.
However, I did hear a system that has been very very highly rated last week and I have to say that the thing that got me wasn't the stage or the height (he has 4" and 1" silk tweeters in the A-pillars, on axis) but the effortlessness of high volumes. For my taste, overblown, slow bass, and an unconvincing stage in terms of musicians. OK, it was too short and only Katie Melua / Pet Shop Boys, but now I understand just how high I'm aiming.

Bret


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

pwnt?


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

ahh, the joys of stuff.....

so, let's get this back on track.

1. The midbass pod on the driver's side door is now done and waiting for final touch-up before leathering. I'm sealing it from the inside with noxudol, it's made of ply, MDF, FG and filler.

2. the positioning is almost sorted. I'm going to try and get the path lengths as equal as I can; I ran out of time last night, or I would already have the mid / tweet baffles made. 

My UCS Pro finally turned up yesterday. 

My car is still being temperamental, but now I know it's the cables on the fuel relay socket; cleaning the relay contacts cleared it up temporarily. I'll re-cable probably at the weekend if the weather's OK.

I'll also get the second pod started, the mid-positions sorted and screw the amps onto a temp baseboard for the time being; i need a new fuseholder. The sub will go back in the temporary box, as I need the car working (and I'd like a system in it) in two weeks. This is going to be tight....

Bret


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## ssj2xxgotenxx (Apr 20, 2006)

50mm lens =)


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

yep. K10D FTW


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

so, some pics.

The door mounts are almost OK now, they are damped on the back with Noxudol. The tweets have some temp homes, so I can test where they sound good (they are aimed at the moment directly under the mirror....) and the rest? I will stay two-way for the moment - I want MUSIC! 

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

oh yeah, the neos fit perfectly in 2" pipe......


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

Looks good, I like the great stuff tweeter pods, should work well for what your doing until you find them the right home.

Do you plan on shaving them down to fit into place and then glassing or just using something else?


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

thanks! if it works, then.. why not shave and glass? 

As it is, the tweets are almost solid; the cable from the rear holds them in place (soldered to the tabs), so they're not going anywhere. 

I'll hopefully have time to test next weekend... but that also means I have quite a lot to do this week (and I'm out on business all day wed)...

Bret


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

Word. That should be a lot of fun if nothing else, though I might just be saying that because I have been sculpting (clay) since I was really little. But that is a great way to get pods that fit more flush than the "stretching fabric method"

But that said be sure to cover them first. Resin melts that **** away!


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

ahh, good, as I've got a small spot on the dash 

Personal preference ATM is to use cling film... saran wrap for you guys.

I need something thicker for the sides of the trunk, though..... the floor will be solid oak - I practiced the finish on that yesterday, diluting Liberon finishing oil with "lakkabensiini", so white petrol, worked great and that sank in beautifully. Now I need to sand again with 400, repeat and then we'll see what happens. That will get some strips of aluminium or stainless in the middle; --T-- - oak - T alu - oak should be OK.

The amp rack will also be oak with alu tubes; One amp at the bottom, on a board, then alu tubes up to the top board, cables on the inside, lit with LEDs.

Top board will probably need to be thicker than I'd like, but at least I can route it properly on the bottom so that the cables can be fused there. Lots of other open options and questions, probably involving some alu on the side of the Oak top board. I need to test some.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

the preliminaries are now nearly done. On with the photos:

Oak for the floor of the boot: one coat of oil so far, diluted with white spirit. Just 400 grit sanded. Will be waxed after the second coat.








kit:
USB Soundcard









UCS Pro in it's new home









one of the amps: 









the baseboard for the time being









random damping shot:









the door build from the inside (yes, that is foam, and yes, that is the door inner skin off to make sure that it seals correctly)










my wife needed the car, so I put it back together for the time being. This is the door without the pocket, the leather on the lower section, no LEDs working and the ER18RNX for proof purposes.











that's it for the moment, I've found some interesting stiff closed cell foam at the depot called "depron" - it's mouldable with some heat and so I'll be using that for at least some insulation, mainly because it's dirt cheap 

Bret


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

all that work and only a 6" driver in that door?

get an 8 or a 10 in there 

looks great.

except for the tiny 6


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

Don't listen to him, 6" is plenty 

But really, any reason you didn't go with something larger? A well sealed door and a beefy 8" or so and you could ditch the substage.

Oh and I wanna see how this depron works out. Let me know.


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

because an 8 would mean threeway. No space in the kicks.

and I mean *no space*. I tried to model a pint (literally) size enclosure for my TG9s for the kicks, and that won't work (I cut a baffle and an inch thick chunk of styrodur, screwed it to one of the spare trim pieces I have and tried to fit my shoes round it..... no chance  ). I haven't really listened to the TGs in seriously small enclosures, that would be a good idea. I'll probably create something with "great stuff" and the baffles I'd created for the previous idea. 
I'd quite like to use the 2" peerless, but in the mean time, I don't like the voicing / coloration they give Emma Salokoski (google it) so I decided against that. 
Right now, I want music. I have another three channels of amplification available if I need it, but things will get tight on the baseboard. Add to that that the budget is rapidly heading towards zero......

ideas welcome.

The Depron looks to be pretty cool for one thing: It's really easy to work with, so it means that I can easily use it, for example, to stop great stuff going everywhere. It's also squashy such that with some EDPM I think I can get some pretty good seals. 
Apparently it's used a lot in model aircraft. It doesn't weigh much, but as mouldable insulation it seems to be what I was looking for. There are allegations of 16dB over and above a DIN, but I can't find the DIN and I can't find an NRC, which means as sound insulation it's not really usable. However, it is thin enough to get into my doors, and I could mould it to shape, which would be really cool. I've gone off the idea of using open cell in my doors as I saw the condensation / water in there after the serious rain of the last few days; it must be waterproof. So, I'll try and get my first sheet of serious MLV ordered (which also happens to be EPDM) and then fit that on the floor / firewall and get a second one to put inside the wheel well liners on the outside of the car. 

Oh yeah, this is also one of my first systems, and the first one that's really run active, so i'm a bit skeptical about my ability to tune a three-way...

Bret


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

All that aside, you can build very small kickpanel enclosures if you vent them into the framerail or dash and use IBable speakers. You can get away with something tiny, just large enough to fit the driver into it, and then cut a hole in the kick where the framerail is, or seal up the ender dash and try to vent to it for a nice IB. Only problem is you will have to spend a little while looking for leaks.

Tuning is another story, but there are some great guides to getting it done right. Have you seen the one by Chuck Music aka Cmusic on ECA? Thats a great starting point; a lot of members have had success with that.


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

well, thinking some more I see that a CA22RNX models excellently in around 40l. That would be around the complete door volume for me...... hmm....... stop it 

The thing I wanted to do with any mid was to run it relatively low, which meant crossing 100-150-200 - which is difficult for a wee 3" to resolve properly.

OTOH... let me read some more (I can't go do anything useful tonight with the exception of oiling wood and noxudol as it's pissing rain and has been all day)....

Bret


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## Unrthdxdream (Jun 24, 2007)

good luck with that DLS CA amp. I had a world of trouble with a CA31.


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

it's been back already once .... let's see.

In the mean time, I got lots of stuff done last night. 
- drivers door is now cabled.
- tweeter cable is at the correct length, even if it's not hidden (i need to try and correct this, but i'm not doing it until the weather's warmed up again, 15C is too low, I'll break the A-pillar cover)
- amps are now in the car, I had to move them as the sub box was going to crimp my power cables
- I now know what I need to get additionally: a neg distro block, 2 large rings, some time with a blowtorch to solder the connectors and a couple of fuses. Then I can start.

I will pull data cables tonight, pull the cables through to the passenger side. I need to work out the connectors for that; then the sealing of the midwoofer.

The driver's side woofer is pretty good now, that will need sanding and shaping tonight. 

So far, it's looking like I might actually have a working system for the weekend - and then the tuning can begin !

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

oooh yes, I got my wood finished the way I wanted it.

First coat was liberon finishing oil, diluted about 50-50 with white spirit. I left that for a week. It was sanded beforehand with 400, and after the week with 400. Wipe off with Microfibre cloth. 
Second coat was around 30-70 white spirit to liberon, left overnight, then sanded again with 400 to remove imperfections. A layer of wax, wait an hour, then polish. It looks stunning. I can't do this credit on a photo. It's not SHINY, it glows and is really smooth. The wood grain is visible in that it doesn't shine (i'll try and take a shot later), but no-one will believe a) this is only two coats and b) that it was home-made 

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

ARGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


The damn door card won't go back on! I spent close on three hours last night trying to get this to fit / work - and it's still not right! SO annoyed... I knew it was going to be difficult, but this was very, very silly.

I can kill now all dreams of having this working for the weekend.... which, considering that the rest of the power cabling is only waiting for 2AWG terminals, is kinda frustrating. I need to get this one set up right, too, because there's another one waiting. ATM I simply don't know what I'm going to do.

Meh.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

so, long time nothing happened. My car broke.

Now, however, it's back.

So... tonight, I've spent an hour with a 200W iron and I now have power cables sorted.
The left Mid is mounted.
The tweeter pods are sort-of positioned. 
In other words, I have pretty much everything set up for a test, maybe tomorrow night. Before that, I need to get the right mid into place and solder up the drivers (need to get some crimp connectors later). 
I might change that and put the closed-cell I now have into the doors before I screw everything in; that would be cool as it would mean I could be connected over the weekend.. 

I also now have a 6Fire USB soundcard, but that demands new computer hardware, as does the DRC software. So, not happy 'bout that, will have to see how it works.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

developments:
- Splen 3008 (8mm closed cell) is now in all doors and parts of the B-pillars. Still have 8 untouched sheets, too. So I'll drop the headlining, maybe tonight, and put some up there; I'll put some behind the glovebox and the rest is going over the rear wheelarches inside.

- the driver that's mounted in the driver's door weighs a ton.
- the cables for the mirror puddle lights are now re-done in the driver's door; the others need to be done ASAP and I'll try and get that done tonight as a priority, because then I can put the inner skins back on.
- the inner skins at the front now all have enough Noxudol on; they really aren't resonant at all. Happy with that.
- both front windows had dropped a tad (3mm or so), so there is some water in both doors

- playing for the better part of six hours has led me to a software solution which might actually work for my old Soundcard. If I install Virtual Audio Cable, ASIO4ALL and Allocator, I appear to be able to route the sound from foobar2000 via VAC to ASIO and then to Allocator, which also then provides EQ capability. TA isn't included, but I shouldn't have any issues anyway as the path lengths to the tweeters are within 6" of one another.
- So, I'll probably return the 6Fire and buy some software again. The 6Fire wanted 12V AC, too.

Looking good so far, I might even get some pics tonight.

Still on the lookout for some heavy vinyl (studiospares have some) for the floorpan, the rear arches and the wheelarches on the outside of the car. I'll see about that soon.

So, present rate of progress, the system should be running this weekend. Ha, I'll believe that when I see it, as I've got something like 8 LEDS internally to wire up, another 6 on the outside and bunch of switches I need to hide somewhere.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

Now, 3 of 4 inner door skins back on with the cables pulled  Just back up for a quick drink and some food; will go back in 10 or so, add the last skin, the rear seats and go for a spin to see if the changes have made any obvious difference...

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

oh yeah, i'll probably kill the front door puddle lights from under the door, as under the mirrors is bright enough. The rear doors will keep them in at the bottom. I'll re-wire the trunk LEDs as well tomorrow or Monday.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

quick update: went for a drive.

Loudest noise @ 75mph is now wind 

Very impressed, I'm not 100% satisfied, but it's pretty damn good so far 

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

my seats won't fit properly, but i've tested.


Bass. Excellent. Stage up high, in front of me, where it should be, without any TA. Will have to play some more, but right now I'm happy.

pics when it looks even remotely reasonable. I need to rewire an awful lot.

Midbass is also lacking (no real surprise, as the "sealed " enclosure isn't, but this is music 

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

so, the new sub box is now underway. After 2 days of music, it's all back out again 

2 Layers of glass have given me this: 











I'll be bracing the baffle with aluminium and some more glass; the sides will end up being raised another 3" or so, as I want to fit the amps underneath a single consistent false floor. We'll see.

oh, and the car it's going in?










Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

Sub box is now significantly higher, I modeled using Depron and Duct tape - worked excellently. Now all I need to do is get it level and work out just how to stick the lid on.

Pics will follow.

Oh yeah, got the door cards back on for the weekend - makes a hell of a difference. Much better; the whole car is almost now at the noise level I'd like it.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

--- with some 0.1" deadener on the floor, life is actually pretty good. 

Anyway, these are now here:









so I'll be doing some more this weekend. The box is now pretty good, I have to get the box section that will go between the amps and hide cables and also some more ply. 

The basalt pics are elsewhere; I'll be doing some more epoxy hopefully this weekend.

Now I need a new distro block or two, especially as I'm not convinced that one 180.2 will be enough for the midbass, especially not when the SDX10 will be getting around 500W 

The deadening of the box was done on the inside using "glascomplex" which was superb.

Bret


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Heh, I used one of those QX amps bridged to one JL 6w0 in my first "system" ever.  I was a complete nooblet and a dumb teenager, so I ran it with the gain literally cranked all the way. Never had any problems.


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

the QXs look OK, they're reasonably cheap, I can still get them serviced. They don't weigh a ton, aren't very physically high and suit the build nicely.

However..... the 900.1D puts out a shedload of power, but the 90.2 I need for my tweets (to run without this nightmare of software called a carPC) is still in the UK. Meh.

I'm pretty sure another 180.2 will be necessary (read: "I want") as the present one will only dump 25W x 2 into the 8ohms of the ER18s. I need to test these, too... that, I think, is next on the agenda, after some basic moves to make sure they physically fit and will look OK (which they do, both). Pics will follow. A second would take me up to 90W / side, and then I can use the 100.2 for the mids which I'll probably bring into the equation very soon (moulding parts already made, I need to create a baffle and away we go). More Epoxy and glass cloth is needed first.

Next issue: the SDX10 needs more space than I've now got, after strengthening the box from the inside. So, another baffle needs to be done - that, along with the false floor part 1, will be tomorrow's work. Tonight I think I'll try the amps, first.

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

So, it all works, and boy, this is going to be LOUD 

No pics, i need to get the build completely thought through first, and ATM it looks like I might actually do things very differently - lose another 3-4cm of trunk height, but rake the amps from front to back. Would look great, but....

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

So, now I've worked out where the amps are going: left side gets a 180.2, 100.2 and 90.2, right side gets 900.1 and a 180.2 (provided it fits, I will check tonight). Sub stays where it is. Floor gets flattened, access hole for the battery and solid oiled oak. Might try and put in a shelf on the left side, too, but that's another story.

Need to get this stuff in, I need the car in 8 days 

The 100.2 had some corrosion on the inputs, that's been cleaned off; the 180s bridged should give me lots of headroom on midbass. I'm a little worried that the 100 won't give enough power to the mids, but I'll deal with that as and when.
The control over the SDX with this much power is soooo much better than before... even running Viper118's "response test" from realmofexcursion is cool - it works, it's rapid, and it sounds awesome. Nice, fat bottom end.
I'll throw in an LPL44 in the front, too, probably over the rear-view mirror; there's lots of glassing to be done. 

Bret


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

too long with no updates. 

Pics: 


















900.1d nestling in its probable new home









windows - top board sitting directly on the amps









Distance was 100mm, now dropped to 60mm.









like this:









the windows - complete with dodgy routing behind, but it's for a purpose...








- and here's the height of rebate (3mm).


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

more eye candy:


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

because I can, thanks to furryletters...


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

I like the tight (semi-macro) photos! keep it up...


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## timbo2 (Apr 25, 2009)

bretti_kivi said:


> it's taken long enough, but the Seas drivers are now here. So, I can make a start on the real build.
> 
> I was going to techflex everything, I'm still not sure if it's a good idea.
> 
> ...




imm this makes me want to order this combo....

how are you finding the tweeter?


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## Lnh (Mar 24, 2009)

Looks like a clean setup in the works. Where did you get the distribution blocks?


Also, I love your photography!


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## Jussi (Jul 23, 2009)

Kappas Täällähän on muitakin suomalaisia 
Nice pic's dude


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bretti_kivi said:


> I'm pretty sure another 180.2 will be necessary (read: "I want") as the present one will only dump 25W x 2 into the 8ohms of the ER18s. I need to test these, too...
> 
> Bret


do you still need one? i have a very clean one gathering dust ,at home.


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