# Stereo Integrity discontinuing BM MKV



## Jbrettk123 (Mar 3, 2017)

I'm not sure if everyone was already aware of this, but I received an email from SI stating that the BM mkv subwoofer has been discontinued. "Sales did not justify continued production." 

I always wanted to hear these subs. I couldn't believe this, as its highly regarded and sought after and mentioned often in the forum.


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## bassace (Oct 31, 2011)

I think those were produced in a buildhouse in China. 

As he is a small customer, I think many of the issues were due to the buildhouse and most likely they did not care about his product.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

He has also confirmed that the M25, M3, and TM65 will no longer be made in favor of a cheaper component set. I don't really get the sales comment as at least the BM sold out before they even got to North Carolina. Seems like those have always been pretty popular. Guess they still weren't meeting expectations.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't think it's about meeting expectations at all. I think they are specialized products that cost more to make. While profitable, they pay the bills but this business model isn't getting him through retirement. From comments I read it's a shift about making money over supplying a niche market of hobbyist with a product only they are willing to pay the high cost of manufacturing for. Slim down the product line, get less headaches, stream line production, make more money.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

reading some of the threads, it looks like he is shifting to different customers. It looks like a different price point (lower) which I thought his products when available were priced pretty well already. Ive also wondered why Sundown doesnt take (buy) some of the products and put them under their name. I thought he had a relationship(friends) or at one point they shared a building. I would think the tweets, mids, and midbass would sell pretty well under sundown. It seems like a shame to let some of products like those and bm subs die. Reviews of those products were always very solid.


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## Dasyce (Sep 22, 2016)

That’s a shame, SI did serve to produce a great sq product for the price point. Going down market will probably produce higher sales, just not cater as well to this forum..


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## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

The unfortunate way of the world today. Its a challenge to be a successful entrepreneur as quality is a chore to mass produce independently. Tough to sustain the associated overhead. Falloff as such is trending.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Jroo said:


> reading some of the threads, it looks like he is shifting to different customers. It looks like a different price point (lower) which I thought his products when available were priced pretty well already. Ive also wondered why Sundown doesnt take (buy) some of the products and put them under their name. I thought he had a relationship(friends) or at one point they shared a building. I would think the tweets, mids, and midbass would sell pretty well under sundown. It seems like a shame to let some of products like those and bm subs die. Reviews of those products were always very solid.


I'm pretty sure sundown was the designer of the subs or atleast helped. Most likely hes getting a cut. But dont quote me on that


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

a better comparison would be popeyes chicken sandwich. I can't help but wonder, if you had to wait in line for that, how much crying you would do on the internet when you got home.
I heard they have an extra spicy version coming out soon, so spicy you have to sign a waiver to get it...... I'll let you know how it is.


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

RRizz said:


> a better comparison would be popeyes chicken sandwich. I can't help but wonder, if you had to wait in line for that, how much crying you would do on the internet when you got home.
> I heard they have an extra spicy version coming out soon, so spicy you have to sign a waiver to get it...... I'll let you know how it is.


Is it though? I mean if you only have 10 in stock and they sell decent does that really mean there is a hot market for them?


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Realize that 100 of those BMs could buy a very nice car. I know since I bought a run of those for commercial inwall subs. Nick is spending his money and he is the one figuring out what inventory sells well enough. Luckily for consumers, there are options, it’s not like SI has a monopoly.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

RRizz said:


> I heard they have an extra spicy version coming out soon, so spicy you have to sign a waiver to get it...... I'll let you know how it is.


I think the burn from that sandwich going down is nothing compared to the burn from that sandwich coming out later... Hence the waiver.  :laugh:

Are you suggesting SI products should come with a waiver?!


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Sometimes it only takes a single part of that sub that requires so much of a buy when you run out of it, that you would be buying a 10 year supply. So the decision is, do i want to upfront buy a 10 year supply of parts for something that might be 5% of my sales in a year. I'm guessing all speaker companies face similar decisions all the time.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Alfa Guy said:


> It's like going to KFC and they're always out of chicken. Here we have a so-called speaker manufacturer who's always out of speakers


Maybe it's just time to head over to chic fil a


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Jroo said:


> reading some of the threads, it looks like he is shifting to different customers. It looks like a different price point (lower) which I thought his products when available were priced pretty well already. Ive also wondered why Sundown doesnt take (buy) some of the products and put them under their name. I thought he had a relationship(friends) or at one point they shared a building. I would think the tweets, mids, and midbass would sell pretty well under sundown. It seems like a shame to let some of products like those and bm subs die. Reviews of those products were always very solid.



That would be nice - to see Sundown take these over. I sure hate to see good designs just get shelved. Seems it could be a prudent business decision for Sundown - expand the higher end SQ line with no design effort - really only SD occupying anything near that for them now. Not sure the nuts & bolts of that one, but in my mind it seems like a good idea


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Not sundowns market or customer base. 
The sq crowd is much smaller and the sundown crowd wants huge bass with big flashy subs. The bmmkV is a very niche sub And not something with very high profit margins that will sell to the masses.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Iamsecond said:


> Not sundowns market or customer base.
> The sq crowd is much smaller and the sundown crowd wants huge bass with big flashy subs. The bmmkV is a very niche sub And not something with very high profit margins that will sell to the masses.


Not totally true. I think jacob has been working on an sq sub. Also his xbl2 components should be out soon. It's just there is a bigger market for spl so he has more products available for that


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I’ll ask him about it tomorrow. I’ll be at the warehouse.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I don't think it's about meeting expectations at all. I think they are specialized products that cost more to make. While profitable, they pay the bills but this business model isn't getting him through retirement. From comments I read it's a shift about making money over supplying a niche market of hobbyist with a product only they are willing to pay the high cost of manufacturing for. Slim down the product line, get less headaches, stream line production, make more money.


Discontinuing the BM mkV's was not an easy thing to do for many reasons including, but not limited to, the mkV's are the most reliable shallow BM ever. Over the life of the carbon fiber BM mkV's we have never had one sent in for warranty related issues. 100% of the BM mKV's work flawlessly. In production that's pretty tough to do as you usually have a small percentage that don't pass QC but the design of the driver and the build house that produces them are a great combination. They are a very very good subwoofer but/and they are a very niche market. Back when the first shallow BM's were offered they sold very well which is what kept them in production. Over the years we have seen a decline in sales each year even though the shallow BM has improved. After looking over the sales data over the years and this production run particularly yes they did almost completely sell out during pre-order however this run was split in half with one of our OEM clients which means that we received half the number of drivers we would have normally received. This production run was also half the size of our previous runs to begin with so we really received 1/4 of what we normally do. Yes they did sell, but at a 1/4 speed of normal. 

Unfortunately putting capital into additional production runs of the BM mkV's doesn't look positive compared to putting that capital into another product which is why I had to pull the plug on the BM mkV's.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

ToNasty said:


> Not totally true. I think jacob has been working on an sq sub. Also his xbl2 components should be out soon. It's just there is a bigger market for spl so he has more products available for that


I agree. The big money is in SPL and us essque folks are just along looking for those diamonds in the rough.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I agree. The big money is in SPL and us essque folks are just along looking for those diamonds in the rough.


I do not agree. The "big money" can be wherever you dedicate your efforts and funds to be. Sundown is in SPL, yes. But please do not parallel us closing the BM's to "big money is in SPL" because were are not going that direction at all. We are, however, focusing our capital on other products such as the 27 mm Xmax one-way SQL subwoofer lineup of 12's and 15's focused on small sealed enclosures with superb sound quality, high linearity, high fidelity, and proper SPL performance for under $300 shipped. Pre-orders have already been twice as popular as the BM's have been so it is a solid move for allocation of resources.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Electrodynamic said:


> I do not agree. The "big money" can be wherever you dedicate your efforts and funds to be. Sundown is in SPL, yes. But please do not parallel us closing the BM's to "big money is in SPL" because were are not going that direction at all. We are, however, focusing our capital on other products such as the 27 mm Xmax one-way SQL subwoofer lineup of 12's and 15's focused on small sealed enclosures with superb sound quality, high linearity, high fidelity, and proper SPL performance for under $300 shipped. Pre-orders have already been twice as popular as the BM's have been so it is a solid move for allocation of resources.


If that is ever available in a 10. And will work in .5 cubes gross. I'll be the first to buy one 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Electrodynamic said:


> Discontinuing the BM mkV's was not an easy thing to do for many reasons including, but not limited to, the mkV's are the most reliable shallow BM ever. Over the life of the carbon fiber BM mkV's we have never had one sent in for warranty related issues. 100% of the BM mKV's work flawlessly...This production run was also half the size of our previous runs to begin with so we really received 1/4 of what we normally do. Yes they did sell, but at a 1/4 speed of normal.
> 
> Unfortunately putting capital into additional production runs of the BM mkV's doesn't look positive compared to putting that capital into another product which is why I had to pull the plug on the BM mkV's.


LOVING MY 2 BMmkV woofers! Very sad to see these go. While not a contender for a regular product in your lineup, I hope you entertain the idea of doing limited small runs in the future maybe every couple years or so to feed our niche needs

I’ll put $ down now on a gofundme or equivalent to have a theoretically improved BMmkVI. Even if it took 2-3 years to come to fruition.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> LOVING MY 2 BMmkV woofers! .


What is it that you LOVE about these subs? give a bit of review plz


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Iamsecond said:


> What is it that you LOVE about these subs? give a bit of review plz


I have been told several times, that if you were looking for a slim/small box sub this was one of the first you should look at. These were application specific, but if you needed a sub that would fit in 0.50 cube box, I was told you would be hard pressed to do better especially at the price point. Reviews across the board were very good. The only negatives I ever saw were people that used them outside of their intended application, things like way over powering/bigger ported boxes, that kinda of stuff they were not really designed for. It seems that Stereo Integrity had a few very good products that never took off with buyers outside of the niche people and are now going away.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Iamsecond said:


> What is it that you LOVE about these subs? give a bit of review plz


Honestly I don’t even know where to start.

But here goes an attempt. I’m not exactly certain what the BM stands for (Baby Mag?) but in my mind it means Bass Maestro.

No they are not gorillas pounding in the trunk. It’s very important to remember that the BM’s exhibit extremely low distortion with their XBL2 topology. When you combine that with it’s impressive linear response you have..

*CLEAR BASS GALORE DELIVERED WITH FINESS!*

Some mention that the BM’s do not have enough output but for SQ purposes these subs pump out more than enough bass. One has to almost learn to get acquainted with it’s type of sub bass. 

Once you do.. you’ll find yourself smiling a moments during your listening sessions when these deliver that bass note and then simply disappear. The clarity of the bass I get from these Baby Monsters is eery. They are most similar in my opinion to a Morel Ultimo/Ultimo SC. But at much more agreeable pricepoint.

I have a sedan and needed to remove a sealed JL 10w7 per the wife to save on trunk space. So I opted for the 2 BMmkV’s due to their small enclosure requirements of only .5 cuft and extremely shallow mounting depth of 3.4 inches. These require a smaller footprint than any of JL’s shallow mount offerings. 

Leaving the 10w7 output capabilities behind prompted me to use 2 BM’s to help ease the transition. The subs are in a sealed double baffled MDF sub box that houses each BMmkV in .655 cubic feet (also stuffed with poly fill). The box is forward firing and sealed to the best of my ability to the cabin. Sort of a faux IB setup.

As Nick mentioned in this thread the BMmkV just simply work. 
I’m currently powering both off a MMATS 4250 HiFi that is capable of sending each sub a tasty 800watts @ 4 ohms. Even though the official RMS rating is 500 watts, I have yet to hear the subs complain. Mind you, I am being responsible with my gains and levels. Once again the XBL2 design allows these subs to sound effortless for some buttery smooth bass that aggressively purrs at your chest with proper TA/Phase alignment to the front stage.

They blend so cleanly and fill in the articulate front stage with fullness and body. No detraction to the rear. Transparent bass that you feel but not necessarily hear. The two subs behind me feel like they are growling from my dash. I am impressed with their output and ability to deliver those low 20Hz notes. Not what I was expecting from a shallow mount option at all. Zero regrets purchasing the subs.


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Honestly I don’t even know where to start.
> 
> But here goes an attempt. I’m not exactly certain what the BM stands for (Baby Mag?) but in my mind it means Bass Maestro.
> 
> ...


I am sure that extra .0 cf for a 10w7 sealed enclosure or .25 ported really cleared up all the space.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

wizzi001 said:


> I am sure that extra .0 cf for a 10w7 sealed enclosure or .25 ported really cleared up all the space.


While the overall volume may be similar, the difference, and I am sure where the most space saving comes into it, is going to be the depth, going from something that needs 8" or so of mounting depth to something that only needs 3.4" is a big difference. Especially if from the sounds of it he has the subs facing the back seat, so they only take up a few inches of the trunk.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

naiku said:


> While the overall volume may be similar, the difference, and I am sure where the most space saving comes into it, is going to be the depth, going from something that needs 8" or so of mounting depth to something that only needs 3.4" is a big difference. Especially if from the sounds of it he has the subs facing the back seat, so they only take up a few inches of the trunk.


Agreed. When I see people talking about shallow subs, whether it is the BM or JL shallow subs, and then see they’re installing in a trunk, I have to ask why. If you can fit a normal depth sub, then fit it as it won’t have certain design constraints placed on it to fit a certain depth. There is no reason to go with a shallow sub if you can fit a normal depth sub. You’ll only be losing output capability and if you don’t use all of a sub’s capabilities, you’ll get better sound quality via less distortion out of that particular sub.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Honestly I don’t even know where to start.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you for the review - I concur with what you wrote - from my experience with the BM in two cars and a home sub set up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

naiku said:


> wizzi001 said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure that extra .0 cf for a 10w7 sealed enclosure or .25 ported really cleared up all the space.
> ...


You nailed it. 

I have to be able to fit a stroller and baby gear in the sedan trunk. The BM’s shallow mounting depth and low driver volume displacement, allows me to have an enclosure that is pretty flat against the back seats and not protruding much into the trunk cabin.

On top of that the JL10w7 tended to sound better in a larger than recommended enclosure (I was using 1.5cuft sealed).

The BMmkV actually sounds good in it’s recommended enclosure of .5ft. But since it is so shallow, I actually had a little ‘spare’ room to place them in .655ft each to help them play those lowers notes with more authority.

Yes the 10w7 still had more output. No doubts about that. But once I tapped that extra output the sub was more easily localized to my rear. Believe me I tried every which way to get a HST-11 to fit. But it’s heavy weight, driver displacement, and long mounting depth left me with enclosures that could not compete with how much more easily usable trunk space I could achieve with the BM’s.

The BM is indeed a niche product that excels in certain applications. I am not touting that they are better than all non shallow subs options. I’m saying I am extremely impressed with the sound these specific shallow mounts put out.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Thanks for the review. 
I am trying to find a great sub for 70s rock and I keep coming back to these. I would love to have 4 of them but.........


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Iamsecond said:


> Thanks for the review.
> I am trying to find a great sub for 70s rock and I keep coming back to these. I would love to have 4 of them but.........


If you don’t have a depth limitation, you should look at the forthcoming SI SQL subs. Or the JL W6 or AF GB sub.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I currently have an rm12 but I really like the reviews of the Bm’s. Just because you have room doesn’t mean you have to use it and I am looking for a specific sound signature. Super clean slap in the face like the bm’s produce. Just saying. 
I also would love to look back and see 4 bmmkV’s following me everywhere I go. Lol.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Well that being said, I am already making plans to fit several sql 15s in, but I really want to have some bmmkV’s just to say I have them.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I was super fortunate to find two NIB BM mkIV’s that I was able to buy from a local fella - met up, gave him a check, didn’t have to pay shipping or PP fees. Now I have a back up for the car and the home 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Aaaarrrggggg. Not fair, stomping feet, turning around waving hands in the air. I’m going to hold my breath until I get a pair. Wait, you gots 2 pair? Bad juju on you. Lol


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

. In-wall!


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Iamsecond said:


> Well that being said, I am already making plans to fit several sql 15s in, but I really want to have some bmmkV’s just to say I have them.


I’m trying to figure out whether I can fit a pair if SQL-12s or SQL-15s in my trunk running IB. Hopefully I have it figured out by the time Nick has them.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

ToNasty said:


> If that is ever available in a 10. And will work in .5 cubes gross. I'll be the first to buy one
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Right after we had paid for tooling of the parts for the BM mkV's we went to lunch with the owners of Woofers Etc and Jacob/Sundown and Woofers Etc asked about a 10" version of the BM. They mentioned that they sold 4 shallow 10" subwoofers to every shallow 12" subwoofer. 

During the initial development stage of the shallow BM the mind-set was a 12" offers the most cone area while still keeping the depth to a minimum. It took many years later to realize that there was a market for a 10" version. However, at the time of the realization that a 10" size was desired the sales of the 12" shallow BM were peaking so we did not look at tooling up parts for a 10" version. We hung onto the 12" size shallow platform for a while but ultimately decided to put our resources into the SQL platform. A fairly light-weight, small box, high-stroke (we claim 27 mm and it Klippel'd at 28.4 mm), low-distortion, subwoofer solution for less than what our RM's cost.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Iamsecond said:


> I currently have an rm12 but I really like the reviews of the Bm’s. Just because you have room doesn’t mean you have to use it and I am looking for a specific sound signature. Super clean slap in the face like the bm’s produce. Just saying.
> I also would love to look back and see 4 bmmkV’s following me everywhere I go. Lol.


4 of them would be phenomenal 

I considered the same for my sedan: 2 forward firing sealed into the cabin like an IB setup behind rear seats and 2 up firing sealed into the cabin mounted to rear deck like Andy W’s demo Mercedes.

4 BMmkV would come close to the best of both worlds for the transparent BM bass and the output of capabilities of the RM/SQL subs all while maintaining decent trunk space .

Start your WTB thread now.. it will take a while for people to give their BM’s up!


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