# Active 3-way crossover or Head Unit with Crossover built-in



## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

Active 3-way crossover (Clarion Mcd360) or Head Unit with Crossover built-in (Pioneer DEH-80PRS)? This is the question. Here is what I am running (and I do know how to tune an active crossover correctly). This car came without the passive crossovers for the Infinity door speakers (and the infinity tweeters were both blown). They are a very robust speaker and work well in this application so I do not want to replace them with anything. I paired them with the Vifa XT25SC90-04 for tweets... and now need to cross everything over correctly. So I am faced with the decision... go with the active separate 3-way... or go with the all-in-one Pioneer head unit that has it all (and then some)? Thanks in advance for your input.


Car: '92 VW Corrado
Front mid bass speakers (in door): 5.25" Infinity Kappa Perfect 5.1
Front tweeters: Vifa XT25SC90-04
Sub: Infinity Kappa 8" (sealed)
Head Unit: ALPINE CDA-117
Amplifier: Rockford Fosgate R250X4 Prime 4-Channel Amplifier
Sub Amplifier: Rockford Fosgate R500X1D


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## Jepalan (Jun 27, 2013)

If you also want to time-align each individual driver (you should), then you need a HU or DSP with that capability as well. Of the two choices you provided I would go with the 80PRS as it gives far more tuning control.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

soundquest said:


> Active 3-way crossover (Clarion Mcd360) or Head Unit with Crossover built-in (Pioneer DEH-80PRS)? This is the question. Here is what I am running (and I do know how to tune an active crossover correctly). This car came without the passive crossovers for the Infinity door speakers (and the infinity tweeters were both blown). They are a very robust speaker and work well in this application so I do not want to replace them with anything. I paired them with the Vifa XT25SC90-04 for tweets... and now need to cross everything over correctly. So I am faced with the decision... go with the active separate 3-way... or go with the all-in-one Pioneer head unit that has it all (and then some)? Thanks in advance for your input.
> 
> 
> Car: '92 VW Corrado
> ...


Not only that, but the Pioneer has more crossover adjustments!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

One more vote for the P80. The sweet spot for crossing the vifa is 4 khz. 3khz is the lowest you can take them that too on steep 24db slopes.


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

Excellent feedback. Thanks guys. My only concern with that head unit is not being able to use the rear speakers off deck power while in network mode (using the deck as an active crossover). I have read that this is a problem with this deck in a few different places (different audio boards including this one) but have not been able to confirm this definitively yet. Can anyone chime in as to the validity (or workaround) of this supposed problem with the 80PRS? Thanks in advance.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

You don't really need rears. But if you want to run them of the hu while in NTW mode, in the settings keep the 'internal amp' option to ON. Now hook up the rear speakers to the speaker level outputs on the hu. I'm guessing a bit here, never tried this.


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

sqnut said:


> You don't really need rears. But if you want to run them of the hu while in NTW mode, in the settings keep the 'internal amp' option to ON. Now hook up the rear speakers to the speaker level outputs on the hu. I'm guessing a bit here, never tried this.


Good to know-- can anyone else chime in that has this HU and confirm that this will actually work?

Also, I personally am not a fan of rear speakers -- but this is on a friends car and they want rear speakers. I think I should spend some time educating him on car audio and the dynamics of sound. Perhaps I can change his mind. But in the interim, I would like to know if this deck does indeed have this capability while in network mode. Thanks in advance.


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

Deck arrived today... will be installing tomorrow. Will let you guys know how it goes. Will be using a 4 channel amp to run the mids and the tweets and then a separate amplifier to drive the sub. One thing I do have a question on is the polarity of the Vifa XT25SC90-04 tweeter (as there has been a lot of confusion on the correct polarity of this particular tweeter, both from Vifa and from audio enthusiasts. So I am wondering... for those that own this tweeter, which terminal (small or large) is pos. and which is neg? 

Thanks in advance.


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

Deck arrived today... will be installing tomorrow. Will let you guys know how it goes. Will be using a 4 channel amp to run the mids and the tweets and then a separate amplifier to drive the sub. One thing I do have a question on is the polarity of the Vifa XT25SC90-04 tweeter (as there has been a lot of confusion on the correct polarity of this particular tweeter, both from Tymphany and from audio enthusiasts). So I am wondering... for those that own this tweeter, which terminal (small or large) is pos. and which is neg? And lastly, which crossover frequency and db rolloff have y'all found to be the most musical and non-fatiguing on this tweeter in a car audio application?

Thanks in advance.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

soundquest said:


> Deck arrived today... will be installing tomorrow. Will let you guys know how it goes. Will be using a 4 channel amp to run the mids and the tweets and then a separate amplifier to drive the sub. One thing I do have a question on is the polarity of the Vifa XT25SC90-04 tweeter (as there has been a lot of confusion on the correct polarity of this particular tweeter, both from Tymphany and from audio enthusiasts). So I am wondering... for those that own this tweeter, which terminal (small or large) is pos. and which is neg? And lastly, which crossover frequency and db rolloff have y'all found to be the most musical and non-fatiguing on this tweeter in a car audio application?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


It's not particularly important, just wire them both the same. You can reverse the phase on the deck if necessary.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

#1 prime amps are nasty sounding 
#2 corrados are rad I owned 3 but now I'm glad I don't own a cursed Volkswagen 
#3 I would go with the 80prs or dex99


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

Deck installed -- now time for the fun stuff... tuning everything. A few questions to start off:

1. Just to confirm (and don't laugh), the 80PRS has the ability to auto calibrate the EQ and Time Alignment, but not crossover frequencies. Is this correct?

2. Are there stock crossover frequencies (in Network Mode) that this unit has pre programmed into it? Or are networks 1-3 all set to "full frequency" right out of the box?

3. Here are the crossover frequencies I would like to initially set things to and then fine tune from. Looking for some input here ("yeah, these are good" or "no, I would start at ____ frequencies/slopes and then go from there"):
LPF spectrum: 20-80 Hz @ 12db slope​MID spectrum: 80-3,000 Hz @ 12db slope​HIGH spectrum: 3,000 hz - 20,000 Hz @ 18db slope​
To recap, I am running: 
Mids (in door): 5.25" Infinity Kappa Perfect 5.1
Tweeters (stock location, in-dash, facing windshield): Vifa XT25SC90-04
Sub: Infinity Kappa 8" (sealed)


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

With 5.25" mids, you may want to move the crossover point up to about 100Hz, depending on how loud you like your music, 80Hz might be a bit low for a small woofer. I've never used those speakers, so you'll have to experiment, but keep an eye on the excursion and listen for distortion. I like to pick a song with strong midbass, turn the volume up to a decent volume, mute the tweeters and sub, then adjust the crossover with just the mids playing.

Everything else looks pretty good. Set the crossovers to what you think they should be before running the auto tune. I don't recall if it will set crossovers for you because they are always the first thing I set, even before setting the clock and turning on/off other features like demo mode.


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

Great advice. The 5.25 Infinity Kappa's handle 80 Hz with ease (surprisingly). I would be inclined to cut them at 100 Hz but the sound is richer and more complete up front at 80. If I was playing a lot of bass heavy tracks at high volumes, I would make the compromise up to 100 without thinking twice.

Thanks for the advice on tuning the midrange -- I remember a high end home audio speaker designer alluding to the fact that you can't tune a system properly without getting the mids correct first (in isolation of all other frequencies), then working on the other freqs. Makes complete sense.


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

oabeieo said:


> #1 prime amps are nasty sounding
> #2 corrados are rad I owned 3 but now I'm glad I don't own a cursed Volkswagen
> #3 I would go with the 80prs or dex99


VW's can be fun... but when they break... not so much. The Corrado takes this to another level on the two-edged sword of glee and misery.

Prime amps are nasty sounding? They are not audiophile level certainly... but nasty? What would you use (on the budget level) in its place?


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## soundquest (May 7, 2015)

System up and running -- sounds PHENOMENAL. Auto EQ nailed it the last time I rant it (after crossing everything over properly -- the deck's default crossover frequencies are 100 and 10,000 Hz! -- abysmal sounding at 10K for the tweeter obviously; these things sing at 3200K at 18db slope). Sub-to-mid cut is at 80hz (18db and 12db slopes respectively). The crazy thing is... I am running the tweeters directly off of deck power (in network mode obviously) and they sound better this way than they did running through the amp (they do not clip at all, even at high volume). Very impressed with this deck -- I don't think anything can touch it at $250.


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