# 7.1 Fq range question



## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

Hey guys, 

I have decided on putting speakers in my ceiling for my 7.1 setup on my HK AVR240 and ditching my Bose accusticrap. Here is my question. I am looking at B&W 664, 382, and 362s as well as Klipsch in a similar range and size, but I got to thinking, how large do the woofers really need to be for the rear fill and side speakers? I am getting towers and a better center channel later on, but for now I am trying to focus on solid rear and surround speakers. 
Thanks for any advise. Keep in mind I am putting in a ceiling, so space isn't really an issue. Just don't want to waste money on 8" woofers if they wont be needed and the coin could go to some better towers or a better center channel. 

Jesse


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

If im not mistaken, that reciever has a 5 or 7 channel stereo mode that allows you to play your 2 channel source and get sound from all the speaks. If that type of mode is important to you, or doing any music listening through the surrounds ( via DSP) then I would put more weight on larger/better surrounds. If OTOH, you will use surrounds for movies only, you can get away with the smaller ones.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

Would it matter if I said I am adding a powered sub?


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm assuming the small ones are 5 or 6.5's? If 6.5's they can put out a surprising amount of bass( generally), so I wouldnt worry about it too much. Get the smaller ones and save your money, get the sub in any case. Remember install is a big piece of it, and with more space in the enclosure( cieling/stud space) your speaks will dig deeper.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

generalkorrd said:


> I'm assuming the small ones are 5 or 6.5's? If 6.5's they can put out a surprising amount of bass( generally), so I wouldnt worry about it too much. Get the smaller ones and save your money, get the sub in any case. Remember install is a big piece of it, and with more space in the enclosure( cieling/stud space) your speaks will dig deeper.


Would you suggest an enclosure, or just keeping the cavity open? My house is 100 years old with native oak 2x10 studs and lath/plaster around that. Not really much more. I am merely adding drywall on top of that to clean up the look and cosmetics. 

The smaller BWs are 6s. The smaller klipsch can go down to 4s, but go up to 8s. I am looking at the CDT line.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

splaudiohz said:


> Would you suggest an enclosure, or just keeping the cavity open? My house is 100 years old with native oak 2x10 studs and lath/plaster around that. Not really much more. I am merely adding drywall on top of that to clean up the look and cosmetics.
> 
> The smaller BWs are 6s. The smaller klipsch can go down to 4s, but go up to 8s. I am looking at the CDT line.


I would just go in wall without an enclosure, unless the speaks come wtih one. Some of them come with an insert that goes into the stud space and acts as an enclosure, this is usually made of some kind of foam. Those HK recievers don't make a whole lot of power IIRC, so any sensitivity you can get by going with an IB/quasi IB would be a good thing. I personally would not go down to a 4 inch driver, 6.5 would be as small as I would like to go. Go as big as your budget and wallspace will allow. In case you didnt know, the surround channels are full range (if you want them to be), back in the day this was not so. With Dolby prologic surrounds were bandpassed from ~100 to ~4k, so large surounds were not needed. With the advent of Digital/DTS, that all changed. You can set the surrounds to "small" which will kick in a high pass xover~100 hz, so you will be able to match whatever you want to do. I have a feeling that once you get this project done, you will probably want much more from your reciever, which you will be able to accomplish with an outboard amp( or 2 or 3...). Once that happens, you will be happier if you decide to go with the larger surrounds, as they will take much better advantage of the power.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

Yeah I wish it made more power, but it was free and I will work with it until I upgrade to something you (hint) guys suggest. I will probably stay with ceiling as the walls are a nightmare to cut through. If I disturb any one part the rest starts to crack and break and then I have to redo the whole room. I learned that lesson she I tried to just replace trim in a room. Took the trim off and huge chunks of wall came with it. I tried to patch it but more just kept cracking like a fault line. 1500.00, a new ceiling, and walls later and we had a new room.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

splaudiohz said:


> Yeah I wish it made more power, but it was free and I will work with it until I upgrade to something you (hint) guys suggest. I will probably stay with ceiling as the walls are a nightmare to cut through. If I disturb any one part the rest starts to crack and break and then I have to redo the whole room. I learned that lesson she I tried to just replace trim in a room. Took the trim off and huge chunks of wall came with it. I tried to patch it but more just kept cracking like a fault line. 1500.00, a new ceiling, and walls later and we had a new room.


Yeah, don't you just love those old houses? After looking at the OM online, it seems that you do have a full set of preouts on that thing. It should be relatively easy to add any additional amps later on, so no worrys there. Also remember to go with good wiring as well, I would use nothing less than 14 guage in wall rated for the surrounds... 12 would be better over those longer distances.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

generalkorrd said:


> After looking at the OM online, it seems that you do have a full set of preouts on that thing. It should be relatively easy to add any additional amps later on, so no worrys there. Also remember to go with good wiring as well, I would use nothing less than 14 guage in wall rated for the surrounds... 12 would be better over those longer distances.


You will have to educate me on the whole "Additional Amp thing" as I am not familiar with that. Car audio yes, Home audio, not so much. I am trying to get educated on all of the aspects. as the room is only 19x14 and the speakers will likely set a couple feet in from the furthest point I picked up a couple hundred feet of 14awg O2 free 100% copper. 

I am leaning towards B&W as I really like the design and range. The price doesn't seem too far off from Klipsch either. Looking at these:
The Stereo Shop-B & W In-Ceiling Speakers

I am hoping to find them relatively cheaper somewhere else, but hoping to stay in the 3-400 range per pair (less would be great). I still need to get the front stage.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

splaudiohz said:


> You will have to educate me on the whole "Additional Amp thing" as I am not familiar with that. Car audio yes, Home audio, not so much. I am trying to get educated on all of the aspects. as the room is only 19x14 and the speakers will likely set a couple feet in from the furthest point I picked up a couple hundred feet of 14awg O2 free 100% copper.
> 
> I am leaning towards B&W as I really like the design and range. The price doesn't seem too far off from Klipsch either. Looking at these:
> The Stereo Shop-B & W In-Ceiling Speakers
> ...


Well, home amps are exactly like car amps, just larger, more expensive, and mostly rated at 8 ohms rather than 4. The way I would go for any additional amps is here:
Emotiva Audio XPA-5 Five Channel Power Amplifier
For that small of a room, the 14 guage will be fine. If you like the B&W, go with them, I'm sure you won't go wrong. I know that Klipsch likes to focus the sound more than most others, so you have to be more careful with aiming than with most other brands, it's a byproduct of their love of horns. B&W appears to be more conventional with their design, at least just by looking at it. I have never heard B&W personally, so I can't say for sure. The fronts is where you will be spending a big piece of change, especially with B&W.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

Don't make a decision on the amp until after everything is installed, you may like it the way it is. If OTOH everything seems to be a bit "thin" sounding, an amp will go a long way towards fixing that. It seems to me that in home audio an amp has much more impact on your overall sound than in car. In car, it mostly just gets louder, but in home it changes everything. HK, back in the day when I was selling home audio, had the reputation of using higher current power supplies than their competitors, which translates to fuller richer sound, and the ability to help drive some of the more difficult speakers. If that still applies, you may very well be happy with what you have.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

I actually have not heard B&Ws. Just heard they are pretty versatile. I have owned and heard much of Klipsch. Not sure if I have the coin for them right now. A single Klipsch:
Klipsch Speakers CDT5650C - In Wall - CDT-5650-C NEW! | eBay
KLIPSCH CDT-5800-C 6 1/2 INCH CEILING SPEAKER (SINGLE) BRAND NEW CDT5800C (743878018530) | eBay

costs pretty close to what a pair of B&Ws can run. However I am sure the SQ is made up for it somewhere. I have no issues with aiming and speaker placement. The T/A on the HK helps a lot as well.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

Im in the same boat, as I cannot speak to how the B&W sounds. I do know that it is a highly respected brand, and the nautilus tower is on the very short list of best sounding speakers available. Klipsch, is klipsch, you have heard them before, and judging by those you posted, probably sound similar to normal type speakers. If you like the sound, go with what you know. Maybe you should check some home audio forums, and get opinions there:
Audioholics Home Theater Forums
The Emotiva Lounge - Home


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

Great idea. I will get some others opinions. Good call. If I planned to stay in this house more than 5 years I would go bigger, but I do not plan on anything more than a good upgrade, then selling it as is. THX in the next house.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

Looking at the various towers. Is it really necessary to get 3-way towers if I have a good center channel?


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

The towers have very little to do with the center channel beyond voicematching. That is where all the speaks are from the same manu. and model line to ensure a seamless transition from left to right. Like any other speaker set, if you go bigger, you get bigger sound. Again, if you listen to music often, then you definitely want to get the biggest you can make room for.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

generalkorrd said:


> The towers have very little to do with the center channel beyond voicematching. That is where all the speaks are from the same manu. and model line to ensure a seamless transition from left to right. Like any other speaker set, if you go bigger, you get bigger sound. Again, if you listen to music often, then you definitely want to get the biggest you can make room for.


Gotcha. I am still trying to get the whole crossover from one to the other down. Probably going with the CM line from B&M for the front stage and still trying to decide on what size for the side and rear surrounds. Thanks for the advise.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

No problem.


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