# 2013 Jetta hybrid



## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm hoping to get something nice in the daily driver. I'll eventually do a few other things too but this is all that matters to me now.

Here's my car!







Parts...

Speakers: PHD FB6.1 Pro Kit

Processor: JBL MS-8

Subs: Hybrid Audio I6SW

Amplifier: JBL MS-A1004 -- review from PASMAG PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - JBL MS-A1004 Amplifier











































The goal of this install is to keep the footprint small while keeping any compromises small. I'll run the PHD speakers active. The tweeters will be powered from the JBL MS-8 as well as the rear speakers which will stay stock. The mids will run off two channels from the MS-A amplifier. I haven't nailed down what I'm going to do with the two subs but I'm torn between two options. One being a ported .35 cubic foot enclosure that will be up front and the other would include both subs in a horn.


Here's what I've done thus far...

Bought a used harness cut out from an B5.5 Passat?





Removed the speaker output.








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Labeled and prepared as input for the JBL MS-8.




I'm creating a temporary block in case I plan to make changes. Although I can make the RNS-315 a low level output/RCA connection I rather just keep it as high level output for the time being.






Next I started to run power for the MS-8. Minimum input is recommended to be 12awg. I found an empty slot on the back of the fuse box inside the vehicle. A female spade terminal fit perfect! It has a nice size wire going back to the fuse box in the engine bay. The MS-8 will be going under the driver's seat.















Then I ran 4awg wire for the Amplifier that'll be going under the passenger seat.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I used a ground I found to the right of the passenger seat and established that first with 4awg cable.












Then ran it under the carpet right next to the seat. I had to unbolt it and lift it up though.








It exits the carpet from a cut out.






I ran the 4awg positive through a grommet that's in the driver's side.

Location of grommet and it's removed...












Into the engine bay...behind where the battery is for all the non-hybrids.






Ran it behind the fuse box...





Added in-line fuse.





Connected to fuse box.








Also found a couple rattles for anybody who's been tracking them down. One rattle was the fuse box. It was VERY loose. The washers were actually rattling back and forth. Another was the floor vents. They connect to a primary duct. There was just enough space that vibrations caused the vent and duct to rattle against each other. I used foam tape to seal it up. It also got rid of the whistling noise from my hvac.






Terrible shot of the hvac...but this is the floor vent that connects to the primary duct. It was pretty tight. Maybe I'll try to get another shot later?


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

Sub'd, always into what is done to VWs!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm taking this install slowly because the wife doesn't want it to be an obsession. So I'll be posting little by little as the weekends come and go. Hope this helps other folks. If anybody has any constructive criticism go ahead and post! As of right now the only two things I can think of are the grounding point because of possible feedback into the system and the power connection at the fuse box in the engine bay...mostly because I don't fully comprehend the charging system layout. But power is power right? The source I chose is 12V power!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Nice progress so far. For what I hear hybrids have way better charging systems than standard cars, but I want to see how you deal with it before I jump into my wife's Prius.

Just an FYI, I have an ms-8 in my Vw, it renders your factory Bluetooth useless. The 8 ms delay that it adds gives you an echo. My solution (annoying, I know) is I mute my phone whenever the other person is talking. Without doing that the echo that they hear is so bad that they can't talk.

Also, if you are using the internal amp on the ms-8 I would use bigger power cable than 12 ga. As it is I'm using 12 and I plan to upgrade to 8 when I go into the access area next.

Check my install to see some stealthy ideas. I know it's not a jetta, but it's still a Vw.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Well I believe max current draw is 16 amps when using the internal amplifier and 1 amp when processor only. I plan on using 2 channels for tweets and 2 channels on rear speakers. I might look into a distro block but I don't foresee my 3 foot of 12awg being a problem. Am I dumb?

Good call on factory Bluetooth. Maybe I could defeat processing when I get a call? Opens the possibility for aftermarket stereo too.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm not sure what you paid for the Quadlock harness but you could have bought repair wires from the dealership for about $3. Your way would be a bit quicker to swap if you decide to.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I found the quad lock for 12 dollars shipped. The lowest between dealers was 8 dollars per repair wire. After looking at your thread I removed the quad lock from my vehicle and googled the part number.

Only reason I'm not terminating into rca is because I don't have access to vagcom. I might have found a local with vag and if so I'll just add female rca's


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

$8 per wire??? That's highway robbery. 

If I was absolutely sure I'd never need it again, I'd sell you mine. I used it all the time. Great tool

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Well I believe max current draw is 16 amps when using the internal amplifier and 1 amp when processor only. I plan on using 2 channels for tweets and 2 channels on rear speakers. I might look into a distro block but I don't foresee my 3 foot of 12awg being a problem. Am I dumb?
> 
> Good call on factory Bluetooth. Maybe I could defeat processing when I get a call? Opens the possibility for aftermarket stereo too.


You are not dumb. Try it, but just keep an eye on the wire. Feel it after running the system, if it gets hot then change it.

You can't defeat processing to eliminate the delay...it's there all the time. I didn't connect the rear speakers from the factory deck to the ms8 because I'm only using front stage and the deck is faded to the front, but when I use the nav it still plays through the rear and it makes her sound evil.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I would just replace the MS-8 with a 6to8 and call it a day. Of the processors I used in my Golf that's the one that interfaced with the 510 the best. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

vwdave said:


> You are not dumb. Try it, but just keep an eye on the wire. Feel it after running the system, if it gets hot then change it.
> 
> You can't defeat processing to eliminate the delay...it's there all the time. *I didn't connect the rear speakers from the factory deck to the ms8 *because I'm only using front stage and the deck is faded to the front, but when I use the nav it still plays through the rear and it makes her sound evil.



Hrmmm. Maybe that's the issue? I was wondering why you'd get an echo. I plan on using the MS8 for the single source to all channels.

I have thought about the 6to8 as well. But the more options available for tuning the more time I'll spend just changing settings for no reason


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I would just replace the MS-8 with a 6to8 and call it a day. Of the processors I used in my Golf that's the one that interfaced with the 510 the best.
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


Just looked over mosconi's dsp. I can appreciate the 6to8. But the MS8 with the internal amp does help keep the system small(er). I guess I'll have to see if this will be a crash and burn. I haven't seen too many middle of the road reviews for the MS8. Most seem to love it or hate it.

I do believe that 6to8 is my next step if I'm not a fan of the JBL.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Hrmmm. Maybe that's the issue? I was wondering why you'd get an echo. I plan on using the MS8 for the single source to all channels.
> 
> I have thought about the 6to8 as well. But the more options available for tuning the more time I'll spend just changing settings for no reason


At what I thought at first, but then I disconnected my amp and ran the rear speakers only. No sound from phone calls at all from the rear.

The echo is the person I am talking to hearing themselves on the 8ms delay. As it plays though the speakers the mic picks it up and it reads like an echo.

I don't want to talk you of he ms8 as I think it's great otherwise. I just want to make sure you know all of its faults before spending the money on it.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

vwdave said:


> You are not dumb. Try it, but just keep an eye on the wire. Feel it after running the system, if it gets hot then change it.
> 
> You can't defeat processing to eliminate the delay...it's there all the time. I didn't connect the rear speakers from the factory deck to the ms8 because I'm only using front stage and the deck is faded to the front, but when I use the nav it still plays through the rear and it makes her sound evil.





Andy Wehmeyer said:


> There is only one update and it turns the mute button into a processing off button. It isn't Windows, so there's no need to update unless you're trying to solve THAT specific problem (bluetooth echo). If you are trying to fix bluetooth, then go into the audio controls menu and turn processing and Logic7 off. If it fixes your problem, then update. IF it doesn't, then don't update.


&

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2034123-post11.html


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks! I had a feeling it was due to processing and alignment


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Just looked over mosconi's dsp. I can appreciate the 6to8. But the MS8 with the internal amp does help keep the system small(er). I guess I'll have to see if this will be a crash and burn. I haven't seen too many middle of the road reviews for the MS8. Most seem to love it or hate it.
> 
> I do believe that 6to8 is my next step if I'm not a fan of the JBL.



Agreed. It is very hit or miss. I suggested the 6to8 because of the echo issue. It's so small it will fit under either front seat. I had mine on top of the BT module under the front of the pass. seat. You have to take the BT module out of the OEM foam though. No biggie.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Agreed. It is very hit or miss. I suggested the 6to8 because of the echo issue. It's so small it will fit under either front seat. *I had mine on top of the BT module under the front of the pass. seat. You have to take the BT module out of the OEM foam though*. No biggie.


Lucky for me the RNS-315 has the bluetooth module built in! I plan on placing the MS-A1004 beneath the passenger seat 

That 6to8 looks really nice. I'd love to have that displayed and not hidden.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Lucky for me the RNS-315 has the bluetooth module built in! I plan on placing the MS-A1004 beneath the passenger seat
> 
> That 6to8 looks really nice. I'd love to have that displayed and not hidden.


I keep forgetting you have the 315. Yes, you have much more space. JL's HD amps will fit under one of the seats.  

It'll be pretty easy to display and look nice because it's small enough to go anywhere.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Thanks! I had a feeling it was due to processing and alignment


I have tried to defeat the processing and I don't think it eliminated the echo. I will try it again as I'm 99% sure it's due to the 8ms delay. If turning off the processing gets rid of the 8ms delay then it SHOULD work.

T3sn4f2, where does the mute button appear? On the display for the ms-8? What is the harm in updating the software? I saw where it was said that once you update you can't go back...why would you want to?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

vwdave said:


> I have tried to defeat the processing and I don't think it eliminated the echo.* I will try it again as I'm 99% sure it's due to the 8ms delay. If *turning off the processing gets rid of the 8ms delay then it SHOULD work.
> 
> T3sn4f2, where does the mute button appear? On the display for the ms-8? What is the harm in updating the software? I saw where it was said that once you update you can't go back...why would you want to?



I don't know if there's any inherent delay even if you defeat the processing. What I mean, is...just having your front speakers hooked up while leaving the rears out of the MS8 signal chain, you could be stuck with a slight delay between front and rear.

If I were you, I'd add the rear speakers to MS8 amp output. Once you defeat the processing then everything should be on the same page without any potential delay or echo.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

vwdave said:


> I have tried to defeat the processing and I don't think it eliminated the echo. I will try it again as I'm 99% sure it's due to the 8ms delay. If turning off the processing gets rid of the 8ms delay then it SHOULD work.
> 
> T3sn4f2, where does the mute button appear? On the display for the ms-8? What is the harm in updating the software? I saw where it was said that once you update you can't go back...why would you want to?


-I can't provide any more details on how the defeat processing function eliminates the echo, other than the quote from Andy. If it remains even after you defeat processing and logic7, then I would PM Andy and see what he has to say.

-The downside to upgrading the firmware to see if it helps is that you loose mute function permanently. Since you can't go back to the original firmware and the mute button on the remote, the one that will have its function replaced, is the only way to mute the MS-8.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I800C0LLECT said:


> I don't know if there's any inherent delay even if you defeat the processing. What I mean, is...just having your front speakers hooked up while leaving the rears out of the MS8 signal chain, you could be stuck with a slight delay between front and rear.
> 
> If I were you, I'd add the rear speakers to MS8 amp output. Once you defeat the processing then everything should be on the same page without any potential delay or echo.





t3sn4f2 said:


> -I can't provide any more details on how the defeat processing function eliminates the echo, other than the quote from Andy. If it remains even after you defeat processing and logic7, then I would PM Andy and see what he has to say.
> 
> -The downside to upgrading the firmware to see if it helps is that you loose mute function permanently. Since you can't go back to the original firmware and the mute button on the remote, the one that will have its function replaced, is the only way to mute the MS-8.


Thanks guys, and sorry for the thread jack. Chances are this will pertain to the jetta hybrid as well.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I don't mind  healthy conversation as long as it pertains to my hardware!


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Since you can't go back to the original firmware and the mute button on the remote, the one that will have its function replaced, is the only way to mute the MS-8.


Who says you can't go back?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

rcurley55 said:


> Who says you can't go back?


As far as I know, the original firmware is not available?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Just went out and decided to verify the factory speaker wiring so that my quad locks match. I plan on re-using the wiring for door mids. I'll run new wire for the tweeters though. Anybody take issue with this?

Also...I went back and calculated potential amps used by the MS-8 when powering 4 speakers and it's roughly 10 to 12 amps total. I can add 1 amp for processing. I'm not worried about using 12awg power for the MS-8 now. Also, since I used a 12V turn on source, I can use that for the MS-8's amp turn on as well...or is that frowned upon? I do plan on using the MS-8 to switch on the amplifier.

Anyways...verified speaker channels...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I like the dedication but it was really unnecessary. The quadlock configuration hasn't changed since it was implemented in 2001 and has been VERY well documented. I like the labeling. I did the use thing in my VWs. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

looks good there! good luck with build


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I like the dedication but it was really unnecessary. The quadlock configuration hasn't changed since it was implemented in 2001 and has been VERY well documented. I like the labeling. I did the use thing in my VWs.
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


The terrible schematics for the "fender"system is why I wanted to verify. It really didn't make sense unless an assumption was made. I wanted to be certain the Germans Tom Foolery wasn't at it again


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I like your progress. I chose not to use the factory wiring for any of my speakers, but I honestly doubt anyone would be able to sit in your car when it's done and tell you that they hear a difference between that versus larger gauge wire.

I can verify that defeating the logic 7 AND processing resolved the echo issue. I tried turning 1 back on and the echo returned. So the software update is the way to go. Keep in mind, you still have to hit the mute on the remote and keep the display available.


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## remeolb (Nov 6, 2009)

I800C0LLECT said:


> The terrible schematics for the "fender"system is why I wanted to verify. It really didn't make sense unless an assumption was made. I wanted to be certain the Germans Tom Foolery wasn't at it again


Did you ever learn any more about the Fender system. I know the amp says it is a 10 channel amp. Is it bi-amping everything? The only way I can make sense of that is that all 4 tweeters and all 4 mids get a channel while the "sub" gets two.

I just bought a GLI with the Fender system and for some reason I'm excited to try putting my MS-8 between the factory head unit and amp while keeping all the speakers factory. It sounds like that was your original plan, right?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I wish I had more information about the Fender system. I never really had time to track down all the wiring. The mids were dvc. That's all I really remember. There were two tweeters up front, two mids, and I believe just mids in the rear.

Unfortunately I won't be getting back to the Hybrid build any time soon as I'm gone for another 6/7 months ;P

Depending on the Afghan gov I might stay longer.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I know it's been a while and there's no reason to hash out the wiring business behind the factory radio. It's very simple right now... I have roughed in my ms-8 and it's made the factory hardware sounds phenomenal.

I'll eventually install the phd speakers up front and reuse factory locations with a little dampening. Otherwise I'm rocking just the ms-8 until then... No sub yet either.

Oh yeah... Washed and waxed today


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

Did you re wire the door speakers or did you just use the factory wiring? I am about to install an ms8 in my 15 jetta tdi and was wondering what others have done. 
I want to go active up front but am not sure where I can tap into the factory wires while bypassing any cross overs.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm surprised I had previously missed this VW build. Especially in a newer Jetta. Interesting to see a Hybrid as well. 

When we were checking out the GLI at a local dealership the Sales Manager was pushing the diesel models hard and stopped just short of completely trashing the Jetta hybrid. I'm not sure why. Maybe because there was more competition from other brands in a hybrid, but not in a diesel?


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

I absolutely love my diesel. The mkvii gti is much more fun, but I am gonna drive 30k a year more than likely so didn't wanna deal with carbon buildup and failed engines. The stereo is awful but much nicer to drive than the 2.5/1.8l turbo. I am just not used to dealing with new cars and wiring. Just wanna do this right instead of just running wires and cutting interiors.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

ggk said:


> Did you re wire the door speakers or did you just use the factory wiring? I am about to install an ms8 in my 15 jetta tdi and was wondering what others have done.
> I want to go active up front but am not sure where I can tap into the factory wires while bypassing any cross overs.


I reused the factory wire harness by running the radio out into the ms8 and then wiring the ms8 output back into the factory quad lock used for the speaker wiring. It's nothing fancy.

I grabbed the power from behind the fuse panel by tapping into the cable that feeds it. I used fuse #30 as my turn on for the ms8. I ran power for the ms-1004 to the passenger seat and it's been placed under the seat ready to be wired to the phd fb 6 pro mids. I'll eventually run speaker wire for them independent from factory wiring. At that point I'll continue to use the factory wiring for tweeters and rear to be run from the ms8.

Hope that helps.

Oh yeah... The 12V battery is in the trunk in the hybrid


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

rton20s said:


> I'm surprised I had previously missed this VW build. Especially in a newer Jetta. Interesting to see a Hybrid as well.
> 
> When we were checking out the GLI at a local dealership the Sales Manager was pushing the diesel models hard and stopped just short of completely trashing the Jetta hybrid. I'm not sure why. Maybe because there was more competition from other brands in a hybrid, but not in a diesel?


Absolutely loved my '12 TDI. However, I wanted to keep mine for about 15 years. With the potential $8K high pressure fuel pump fix looming l didn't think VW would fix them under the table for much longer. I also had an issue with my motor ingesting water from the intercooler. So I took a gamble and traded for this hybrid sel since it was 23K or so, don't quite remember. It was listed at $31K and I think factory invoice was around $28K

Your sales guy probably didn't want you to realize hybrid models were deeply discounted. The motor is solid too. I figured this was a gamble too but I felt better about it. It also has a sound proof windshield and some other nice additions over the TDI.

The 2015 TDI models have a newer motor that doesn't have the above mentioned issues.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Cool. I appreciate the feedback.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

rton20s said:


> Cool. I appreciate the feedback.


I'm still jealous of the Malone tune and other options for the diesel. Must be nice!


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

I paid just about 23k for my 15 TDI. And hopefully the issues the last motor had are gone with the 15. But I know I would have been hard pressed to purchase a <14 model TDI even though I like the way they drive.

Also is there anywhere I can pull wiring diagrams for the wires to the door speakers and tweeters online without subscription?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I think there's a guy named verebs that night be willing to help in the mkvi Jetta forums on vwvortex.com

It sounds like you got a great deal. I would have picked that if it was available at the time. The new motors are pretty great. Really hard to beat their power and mileage.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ggk said:


> I paid just about 23k for my 15 TDI. And hopefully the issues the last motor had are gone with the 15. But I know I would have been hard pressed to purchase a <14 model TDI even though I like the way they drive.
> 
> Also is there anywhere I can pull wiring diagrams for the wires to the door speakers and tweeters online without subscription?


What do you need to know?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> What do you need to know?


Best source ever.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

I am mainly looking for diagrams and wire colors before door molex and in kick panel area. I want to know where I can tap the factory wiring to door and tweeter wires as close to the driver as possible. I am trying to avoid wiring into the door till I replace the door speakers and drill out the rivets holding the factory in. 

I am looking at possibly glassing behind the door cards(only need .15 cuft) for some silver flutes.

Another possibility is sealed 8s under(can get .2cuft in a .25" walled box easily) the seat and mids in the factory mid bass location.

Still need to find tweets to put in factory location that wont sound like ass in the factory alignment. Damn living somewhere where visible stereo is a liability.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ggk said:


> I am mainly looking for diagrams and wire colors before door molex and in kick panel area. I want to know where I can tap the factory wiring to door and tweeter wires as close to the driver as possible. I am trying to avoid wiring into the door till I replace the door speakers and drill out the rivets holding the factory in.
> 
> I am looking at possibly glassing behind the door cards(only need .15 cuft) for some silver flutes.
> 
> ...




The problem you're going to run into, unless you have one of the amplified systems, is that you'll either have an OEM passive crossover in the door (usually a black plastic triangle shaped box) or the tweeter wire is run in parallel with, and connected at, the midbass. VW doesn't run separate wires from the HU to the mid and tweeter so you can't really use the OEM wiring. If you have an OEM amplified system, like the Fender, then you'll have separate wires for each speaker running from the amp into the door. 


Do you have a Jetta or Golf?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Also, every VW I've owned has had the wiring diagram on the HU. That would let you tap into the OEM wiring at any point before the midbass or OEM amp because that will be the wire color up to those points. I would just tap it at the HU. Make it easy on yourself.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Also, every VW I've owned has had the wiring diagram on the HU. That would let you tap into the OEM wiring at any point before the midbass or OEM amp because that will be the wire color up to those points. *I would just tap it at the HU. Make it easy on yourself.*


That's exactly as I did. The capacitor for the tweeter is in line next to the tweeter. It's a 6db slope somewhere in 5Khz range...if I calculated that right? The wiring was diagram on the radio was correct as he stated too. GGK...he called me out for questioning the wiring earlier in the thread too  

After I unplug the mid I should be able to re-use the factory wire for the tweeter alone. I'll run a new wire to the mid. Hope that clears up any confusion about my wiring.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> That's exactly as I did. The capacitor for the tweeter is in line next to the tweeter. It's a 6db slope somewhere in 5Khz range...if I calculated that right? The wiring was diagram on the radio was correct as he stated too. GGK...he called me out for questioning the wiring earlier in the thread too
> 
> After I unplug the mid I should be able to re-use the factory wire for the tweeter alone. I'll run a new wire to the mid. Hope that clears up any confusion about my wiring.


It's been a while since I looked, but that's about what I remember. They don't run it too low because of the slope and because the mid is full range.

That *might* not work. The wires are all in the mid's connector but I don't know if they actually connect if the mid isn't plugged in. I've never tested it, just a heads up.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

I was mainly looking for the wires at the door molex/kick panel location for both the mid and tweeter to tap in that location. All I really wanted to do was basically wire them both so I had T/A from my MS8. 
Idk if I remove the tweeter wires from the other side of the passive cross over if I would mess up the mids cross over frequency. 

I got a bunch of gear in today so I might run some wires through the car tomorrow. Still waiting on my Quadlock extension so I don't have to cut and solder behind the HU. 

Over all I like your build and has been informative for my project


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

There's no crossover on the factory mid. If you're attempting to give the tweeter and mid independent channels you'll have to run new wire. I suppose I'm going to do the same in light of the other information.

If you just want to power the tweeter and mid from one channel then grab the wire at the radio.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

My MS8 is getting trunk mounted and I am gonna run 2 channels to the fronts one to the rear plus the signal wires for a total of 8 runs of cable. Bought a 250' spool of 14awg mind as well use it. I am just gonna tap mids at the hu then run wires to the tweets directly.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Sounds like a plan... Give us an update on how that turns out.


On a side note, a fellow Jetta hybrid owner ran into an issue jumping a vehicle... He attached the jumper cables to the battery in the trunk. It blew the battery fuse and his car was dead. It turns it that their are posts under the hood just for this reason. I knew about these and that's where I tapped power for my amps and processor. A good hunch turns out to be a good move after hearing about his problems. I had even thought about tapping the battery for more hardware in the future.

I thought I'd mention this in case other hybrid owners are in search of a point to tap for their power needs. I know all our cars are designed different but at least think twice about the electrical systems and design before moving forward.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

With your ACC wire location does it require you to start the car with the button to turn on the stereo? Because I really like the functionality of not having to turn the car on to listen to the stereo sometimes. 
While I was waiting yesterday I found out that the Power to the MDI plug turns on whenever the radio is on and then turns off 1 minute after the radio goes off.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

My car functions as it came from the factory. I used fuse #30 for turn on


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I've misplaced a phd tweeter. Anybody have opinions as these for a replacement?

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-ot19nc00-2/3-ring-radiator-tweeter-4-ohm/


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Got bored and waiting on my sub. I threw in one I had sitting around from a creative gigaworks computer set. It's running off channel 8 on the ms-8. It doesn't sound bad but certainly didn't go deep.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Alright...I've been really busy and haven't had time to do anything with the vehicle. I did get her tinted?

I feel like this is a good find on ebay for MLV. Anybody disagree?

1lb Acoustic sound proofing barrier mass loaded vinyl 12 feet long by 54" wide


Here's a photo of my tint...Llumar CTX 35 is such a blessing for that nasty summer sun.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

First time I've ever been excited about FedEx delivering a day late!

Kids helped me unbox and played a little


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Man I wanna try those audio frogs jealous of you I am


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks... I feel terrible for winning the contest so I decided I need to start making a monthly contribution... For... Ever? I really didn't want to put it out there I won but I figured being honest is best and instead of feeling guilty I'll just let it motivate me to do something more. So I plan on getting more involved with the community too. Specifically, a local STEM group that helps high schoolers start thinking about their future.

Can't wait to get them in!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I haven't been able to get away from the kids to get any work done so I figured I'd turn them into minions. One A-pillar is awaiting cloth and resin. Tomorrow we'll prep another and hopefully get these things vinyled on Wednesday. Here's my little girl cleaning up after me...























She helped me aim them...going to be towards the back of the rearview.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

test fit before I duplicate and wrap. I guess somehow we didn't get them angled up as much as I thought. No big deal. I don't like the gauge hump either but whatever...I think the ms-8 can handle that. I'll test crossover points ~4KHz


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Thanks... I feel terrible for winning the contest so I decided I need to start making a monthly contribution... For... Ever? I really didn't want to put it out there I won but I figured being honest is best and instead of feeling guilty I'll just let it motivate me to do something more. So I plan on getting more involved with the community too. Specifically, a local STEM group that helps high schoolers start thinking about their future.
> 
> Can't wait to get them in!


Contest?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Sure did... The red nose contest

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/183105-win-audiofrog-speaker-system.html


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Slight update... Waiting for my daughter to get home from friends house to help me resin these things.

Any tips for cutting out the tweeter ring without damaging the edge? Exacto knife?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Moving on because I'm tired of waiting on my daughter....


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm really impressed with how well this blends in with my interior. I guess it helps that it's black, gray and silver


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

I hope you can come down to NC in the fall for an NCSQ meet. We'd all love to hear some Audiofrog.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Unfortunately, I forgot to account for the hood release on the other kick panel...I guess that's why I'm not a professional installer; so the speakers aren't symetrical...uh, who cares? It turned out well and I provided detailed photos to show how easy this hardware goes together. I'm really impressed with Audio Frog's packaging and install oriented assembly. I can't tell you how many different combinations can be made for mounting the speakers without having to resort to your own method. It REALLY cuts down on the work load.

Also, I had these speaker rings laying around and they were the PERFECT fit so I figured I might as well use them. If I hadn't noticed them sitting in the box they probably wouldn't have been used. The manual doesn't seem to indicate a need for them.

The mids will be IB. I don't konw if it helps any but I noticed that there's a cut out directly behind so maybe they'll vent somewhere?


1) Speaker cut out










2) Dremel










3) Check fit. It fits.










4) Use double sided tape for mounting ring and baffle. Sandwich panel and mount.










5) Prepare aluminum ring -- cut trim tabs










6) Attach trim piece.










7) Mount speaker and aluminum ring










8) Add rubber gasket to speaker grill










9) Mount grill


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Notloudenuf said:


> I hope you can come down to NC in the fall for an NCSQ meet. We'd all love to hear some Audiofrog.


I'll have to look up the thread for that one. I wouldn't mind at all...however, I think I have a couple business trips lined up. We'll see how that works out


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Pictures from drivers side. Sorry about the crappy night shots


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

very nice. looking forward to what else you do to the car. 
I drive a 2008 Jetta


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

As


vwjmkv said:


> very nice. looking forward to what else you do to the car.
> I drive a 2008 Jetta


Thanks! There's not much left foot the front that people on this sight haven't seen. The trunk will be fairly simple too.

On a side note, I don't think I added enough hardener to the fiberglass resin. Hopefully the sun helps speed up the curing but after just one night it's still wet and tacky.

Last time I did this in 0% humidity and it was about 5 layers, not one. After one night it was fairly hard. Still tacky, but close to being done with curing.

Blah


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Sure did... The red nose contest
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/183105-win-audiofrog-speaker-system.html



I had no idea this even happened. lol

Congrats on winning!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Ha... Thanks!

I'm loving these speakers. I hate waiting on resin to cure ;p


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I hate wiring. So so much. I will give anybody my credit cards to come do this right now.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I have no idea why I have such a hate for wiring but I do. I think this will be the last time I ever do car audio in a VW.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I resigned myself to ripping out everything that was prewired for my initial hardware choice and installs. Then I took a break before starting to rewire it all. Still in that phase.

A-pillars are finally starting to harden as well. They'll definitely need a milkshake of sorts.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Looks like I need to patch it up with some bondo ;P

I wasn't thinking and used a set of old tools somebody gave me to hold the material down against the tweeter rings where it met the A-pillar. One of those tools had paint on it and like a dummy never removed it during the curing process...ripped it getting it off. (sigh).

Oh well...lots of learning curves in this. Here's an update before I mix up some bondo this afternoon and get it a littler closer to right for the vinyl.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Test fit. Still a lot of prep before vinyl though


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Notloudenuf said:


> I hope you can come down to NC in the fall for an NCSQ meet. We'd all love to hear some Audiofrog.


Fall meet? 
Got a thread on that one yet or info posted somewhere? 
Had an absolute blast at the last one.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Yeah. Shed some light on that? I looked (not well) and didn't see anything


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Finished running the wires to the trunk and put the vehicle back together. Now I'm wondering if I should run the ground back to the battery or to the chassis somewhere. That plastic cover on the left side of the trunk hides the battery.

I had a thought after realizing how much I hate taking apart this VW... 

Why not run my mid-bass under the seats? Didn't BMW do that? There's enough room to put the 6.5's down there so I think that's what I'm going to do. Any thoughts on that?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Alright...so here's my update. I started working the trunk. I'm not happy with what I came up with. I'm getting short on time and didn't feel like doing fiberglass. But I think I need to start from scratch with this. I barely had enough space to get the sub to fit and a small portion of the ring is sitting off the edge. I made a mistake on height calculation too so those sides that are sticking up should be taller. Luckily, I can just add some runners to the OEM false floor and that's np. It's my fault but I was paying more attention to my little guy and getting him involved. It's tough to keep track of the kids when they're helping and keep focus on the project.

The other issue is all I have laying around is 3/4 MDF and I'm being cheap right now. All in all, I'm not being real efficient with my space. My box is about .6 cubic feet so I'm at minimum recommended box size. I might look into adding a pound or two of poly-fill.

I guess being cheap isn't paying off.

Otherwise, I'll place the MS-8 towards the front of the trunk with a shelf sitting over top to hold the amps. It's not going to be a fun work space. I may hit the brakes and start over.






























EDIT: Forgot the battery shot. Relocated from the front to the trunk.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Another update. Making final connections and pillar repairs are going nicely. I'm not making them a priority...they'll be something to do when there's free time here and there.

Still up in the air if I want factory false floor or keep the sub inverted. There's no grill on it right now so I don't want any accidents taking it out. If anybody is wondering this is ALL stuff I had laying around my garage except for the knukonceptz .5m RCA's I purchased. Who would have thought budget install? :>

Oh...I spent a lot of time suring up the trunk lid and putting down some deadener I had laying around. No CCF or Ensolite though.


----------



## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

BTW...I LOVE this part of the video I've been watching...

https://youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM?t=48m


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

This one is PRETTY awesome...

Humans consistently measure/respond to tests as long as they're completely blind and unaware of what is playing the music.

I would tell anybody to go back a few minutes or start watching from the previous cut to this one

https://youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM?t=56m15s


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So....I finally experienced the crazy frustration everybody has with the MS-8.

The honest truth is that it's a level match and QC issue. I followed Andy's advice to go Lo-level RCA switch with full counter-clockwise turn. What did I end up with? Something that made absolutely no sense at all. The MS-8 refused to send any information out to my MS-A1004 after initial sweep...

Not only that...I had been experiencing this slight static pop whenever I change audio settings on my display. It's been this way since purchase but it only happened when making a change and it was very subtle when powering my stock speakers off the internal amplifier.

Anyways...at one point the MS-8 sent a crazy signal to my MS-A1005 during a song and then passed through to my left front GB25 and it popped. I figured a tweeter would go before anything else. fa;lskjdf;aljskdfjaksdf;jk AHHHH!!!! SMH. I figured while I'm destroying everything I should try to iron out the problem. I finally have the gains all adjusted appropriately(had to go up) and omg the GB10D4 subwoofer is amazing.

I guess I need to email Andy and see if I can buy just one speaker. If not, I might just go through crutchfield so I have their support. Also, the MS-8 is still popping. I may have to switch that out...but for some reason I only hear it in the tweets when adjusting now(wtf is wrong with this thing?!). Hopefully no more deadly pops.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I HAVE TO POST AGAIN BECAUSE I WANT MY GB25 WORKING RIGHT NOW!!!!!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I can't say enough about Andy and everything he's done for us. He told me in email that my MS-8 isn't shot. It just has a random issue where under the right circumstance it spits out that horrible noise. The eq clicking/zipper noise he said is something else and I have a feeling it must be feedback from the display or mic-phones. That's why I never cared about it in the past but it made me wonder if that was part of the issue.

Anyways...I was about to purchase a set of GB25's in a crutchfield chat when I got an email from him telling me he'd ship a new one as well as the info above about the MS-8.

What an amazing group of guys.

Also...that GB10D4 is flat out perfect where I have it. If I change anything it's only to put together a better spare tire well install. Turns out the way I oriented it is quite a B for troubleshooting.

That will probably go on the back burner until I get home from deployment though. Anyways, I guess I can keep working on the A-pillar situation until then. A little work here and there really adds up and I think this is going to be a killer DD when it's all said and done.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Started troubleshooting again at Andy's request. Suddenly everything was perfect.

Turns out I have a broken rca on the ms-8.

GD these shakers are tough... And I keep my claim of not killing any speakers since I was a teenager.

Can I tell you guys how AMAZING this sounds?

GB10's in pillars crossed at 3500Hz.
GB25's in kicks...300hz/3500Hz
GB60's sealed under the seats... 80Hz/300Hz
GB10D4 in trunk sealed in spare tire well.

Image is wide. A few different calibrations have different heights but I settled with a lower stage height calibration around bottom third of windshield.

I'm not one for frufru words but this isn't fatiguing and I can't believe I actually enjoyed a couple songs from the focal discs which I absolutely hate.

I gotta go listen now...


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Interesting updates. I was never a fan of the ms-8 in my VW. I also will never wire a VW again. Lol my Toyota is so much easier to work with. I'll also never use an MS-8 again.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

And no I didn't play that Spanish Harlem...


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

vwdave said:


> Interesting updates. I was never a fan of the ms-8 in my VW. I also will never wire a VW again. Lol my Toyota is so much easier to work with. I'll also never use an MS-8 again.


Holy hell. My sentiments exactly. VW was a horrible choice for this.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

Just ran power and speaker wires and I can wholeheartedly agree with the pain in the butt wiring. Still haven't even tried to tap into wires behind the HU. Not looking forward to it. 

But I am really glad to hear it is working out for you.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Once you get past that you'll feel like a million bucks. But the panels and style clips they used will make you furious. I'm replacing most of mine with something simpler like the push pin type

I actually found them at Lowe's


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Those pillars look good man. To help resin cute quickly use a heat gun. I bought one at harbor freight and I can cure resin with a minute.

I've read way too many negative experiences with an MS-8 to ever use one myself. Sorry to hear about your blown tweeter!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

vwdave said:


> Interesting updates. I was never a fan of the ms-8 in my VW. I also will never wire a VW again. Lol my Toyota is so much easier to work with. I'll also never use an MS-8 again.



Really? I LOVE working on VWs. I find them incredibly easy to work with and their panels don't scratch when you look at them sideways. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ggk said:


> Just ran power and speaker wires and I can wholeheartedly agree with the pain in the butt wiring. Still haven't even tried to tap into wires behind the HU. Not looking forward to it.
> 
> 
> 
> But I am really glad to hear it is working out for you.



Look in my Golf TDI build log for the easiest, cleanest, and most reversible way to tap in VW wiring at the HU. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

edouble101 said:


> Those pillars look good man. To help resin cute quickly use a heat gun. I bought one at harbor freight and I can cure resin with a minute.
> 
> I've read way too many negative experiences with an MS-8 to ever use one myself. Sorry to hear about your blown tweeter!


Oh...luckily it wasn't blown...turned out to be a bad RCA. Apparently I was heavy handed as the ones I got from knukonceptz were fairly tight fitting.



quality_sound said:


> Really? I LOVE working on VWs. I find them incredibly easy to work with and their panels don't scratch when you look at them sideways.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think coming from GM and Ford cars there was a learning curve as to how they came apart and go together. I still don't like some of their clips but after putting them back together you're right...didn't scratch easy and really not horrible.

Just new to VW's is all


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Look in my Golf TDI build log for the easiest, cleanest, and most reversible way to tap in VW wiring at the HU.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I'd listen to him. That's the same reference I used building mine....Q_S is our resident VW guru.

I ended up using a certain style paperclip and tapering one end to safely remove wires as needed from a second harness I purchased off ebay for about $5. Way better than the $9.50 per repair wire that my local stealership quoted.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

ggk said:


> Just ran power and speaker wires and I can wholeheartedly agree with the pain in the butt wiring. Still haven't even tried to tap into wires behind the HU. Not looking forward to it.
> 
> But I am really glad to hear it is working out for you.



Totally missed this... Thanks for the heads up and I'm awaiting headliner samples so I can get the pillars back to a factory look.

I'll remember that next time I do these.

Also... I drove around for a couple hours and made a few eq changes but nothing drastic. This mid-bass and sub is killer. I don't have any rattles except where I get to insane output and the box rattles against the trunk a little bit. It's only noticeable if you open the trunk though.

Stage height is right above the dash but it can drag down a little depending on how you sit... Which wasn't fit for driving when it happened.

I'm still blown away with how great this turned out. I can't believe I'm anywhere near what others have put together so I'm eager to hit up a meet and get some constructive criticism.

What vw Dave, quality sound, and others have said about the hu make me wonder about swapping out for aftermarket but I'm not sure I have the discerning ear to know any better.

Time to go make excuses to run some errands!


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Cool. I'm glad this turned out great. Nice job, Robert.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Cool. I'm glad this turned out great. Nice job, Robert.


Absolutely a DIYMA effort. I can't take credit for anything but I am responsible for what it looks like 

Next on my list is to start cleaning it up. Get those wires cleaned up and cut to fit, probably going to fiberglass a new spare tire well box and get this looking proper.

Gotta make sure this does your branding justice. Thanks again for the help direct and indirect. Your a huge asset to the forum. That goes for all the members too. Been reading what everybody had to say since 2006. This would be another has been attempt if it weren't for everybody.

Comments about the ms-8....I originally purchased one refurbished and it was DOA. This one has been clicking since I received it but because I wasn't using the rca's I realize it's been this way until I pushed on that bad rca ...enough for it to go nuts. Now that eq clicking is gone and things are OK. I have a spare rca out just in case that isn't being used.

So... Like I said way before... QC issues. Amazing product Andy and I'll be first in line when audiofrog releases their dsp.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

Any pictures/dimensions of the under seat midbass? Did your car come with the bluetooth under the passenger seat, if so how did you relocate it?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So when I went about this idea...I didn't think it would work because mids typically still require a decent bit of space. That's one of the issue with poor mid-bass in kick panels. Some guys try aperiodic enclosures to help this. While reading, I noticed that Andy and his guys said that the GB60 was specifically designed for small enclosures.

Moving forward with that, I calculated approximate Qtc...but I forgot what it was...I think .93 or so? I honestly didn't care because it was being used for mid-bass and crossed at 80hz and 24db slopes.

The boxes are 7.25" x 7.25" x 3.75" with 1/2" MDF. It fits perfectly under the seat. I bought them off ebay or amazon for $35 or so. Nothing fancy. I wanted something cheap for a trial run. I didn't need to relocate anything. The RCD-510 and I believe the RNS-510(not available from factory to the Jetta) require a Bluetooth module. Funny enough, they just Velcro it under the passenger seat. I have the RNS-315 with Bluetooth built in to the unit. Simple enough for me. The factory "Fender Audio" amplifier sits under the driver seat with a bracket holding it on. Nothing fancy there either. I'm using Velcro for the time being.

I tried crossing them at 400hz and my stage started to rainbow and get weird. Then I went with 300hz and it snapped everything back. However, I can't play as loudly with the GB25 playing IB down to 300hz. So I may end up making a small enclosure for the GB25's. But I wouldn't mind glassing a better looking box for the GB60's long term.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> What vw Dave, quality sound, and others have said about the hu make me wonder about swapping out for aftermarket but I'm not sure I have the discerning ear to know any better.
> 
> Time to go make excuses to run some errands!


If you have someone that will let you borrow one, try it. Don't bother with a full on install with the kit and everything, just get it ghetto-rigged and let 'er rip. You'll be back inside your house shortly ordering the install parts and a new HU. 

Paul


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Will you let me borrow one?! 

I'm actually thinking about grabbing one of those newer head units that will cast my Android apps(Google maps plz!). I'm waiting for that whole thing to mature a bit though


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Will you let me borrow one?!
> 
> I'm actually thinking about grabbing one of those newer head units that will cast my Android apps(Google maps plz!). I'm waiting for that whole thing to mature a bit though


If I had one to lend, I would. I wont be using a new HU in my MINI since I have nav. From what I've seen with Android Auto, it's worth picking up now.


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## ggk (Sep 5, 2008)

[Hands-On] Volkswagen Officially Unveils Android Auto On Upcoming 2016 Models, Some Hitting US Dealers Within Days

If you don't mind waiting you will probably be able to pick one of these up for the cheap when someone upgrades.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

ggk said:


> [Hands-On] Volkswagen Officially Unveils Android Auto On Upcoming 2016 Models, Some Hitting US Dealers Within Days
> 
> If you don't mind waiting you will probably be able to pick one of these up for the cheap when someone upgrades.



That would be sweet! I really am eyeballing those pioneer nex units though. I even came across some brand called rydeen? Cool idea and hope others come up with an android hu too


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Just changed my crossover points. I never did the plotting for excursion but moved my mid bass down to 70hz and 24db slopes. Also switched the midrange and tweets to 3.5KHz at 24db slopes.

Vocals are spot on and instruments are easily pointed out. The bass moved from my dash to squarely at the apex with the windshield now. Matter of fact the whole stage moved back. I have a feeling whatever issue was going on originally is part of the cause for my rainbow effect when the mids were high passed at 300hz and the left side was in and out. I moved the high pass to 400hz and the stage seems pinned now. Moving around doesn't effect the stage or tone hardly at all.

Most of my coworkers and friends are amazed and keep touching the speakers to make sure they're on. They can't understand why the stage is so well formed away from the actual speakers. They think the tweeters are playing most of the sound.

Everybody comments on the bass output too. A few of them want me to help them mirror what I have now in their own rides.

These speakers are very transparent. I've changed the eq to warm them up a bit but I'm not implying they're missing anything at all. Extremely smooth and not harsh. I made a mistake too. I mistook pens rattling in my glove compartment for the gb25's running out of steam with 300hz hpf. I still haven't hit the system limits yet as the speakers don't show any signs of stress and my amps haven't run out of power.

So far everybody is hugely impressed with the sound. The ms-8 really makes these speakers shine as I haven't had the ability or the hardware in the past to bring it all together.

One last note... Fixed the rattle in the trunk. It was actually the amp rack against the tire well.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Another update... Turns out the amps and ms-8 RCA's are just fine. The problem reared is head again today. The knukonceptz have a short. Switched and good to go!

Also got the wife in fit a demo... That was a struggle. Her face was absolutely not caring. But when we went to DQ with the kids she sure did rock out. Never had heard of pentatonics before. That's when my wife finally admitted how good it all sounded.

It felt like the pentatonics were all together on the dash just doing their thing.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So in case anybody has been wondering about the Hybrid aspect of this build...

I'm not sure if the MS amps are extremely efficient or the car's electrical is just stout but there's absolutely no hints of a flicker or voltage fluctuation. I presume that the vehicle's electrical is just very resilient to the load.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I had somebody PM me about the quality of the GB10D4 subwoofer.

It's a beast. I have it in ~.5 cubic feet sealed in my spare tire well. It's matched with what's been said to be ~850 watts output at 2ohm. So I got out my radio shack meter tested "fast" response and "slow" response. I can't tell you how amazing it sounds in the car matched with my ms-8.

http://support.radioshack.com/support_audio/doc72/72441.pdf

I was able to hit 112 decibels C-weighed on avicii - hey brother. I was hitting 118 decibels on awolnation - sail. I didn't max out the volume. I had my kid in the Car and it was getting too loud. I was hitting 123 decibels on bassnectar - bass head. My kid went inside but I still didn't max the volume because I started to worry about my neighbors. The amps and speakers didn't show any signs of breaking a sweat.

I checked A-weighted too and on fast response I was easily getting mid one hundred-teens. 

This is sealed, inverted in about .5 cubic feet. Wow.


My son(age 3) picked the music...except bassnectar. He loves playing DJ whenever we go out for errands. Here's the songs, streamed through youtube and playback via bluetooth

















EDIT: Something wrong with my phone...it copies and pastes everything randomly. Fixed post.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

If anybody ever wonders about my inspiration for this build it goes back to this .PDF


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## oscardillo (Nov 16, 2010)

Attentive follow this post, I have a golf MK5 and will install a ms-8.

I would like to see the result, our car has the woofer very delayed.

What do you think of this?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I800C0LLECT said:


> If anybody ever wonders about my inspiration for this build it goes back to this .PDF


Wow hard to believe time has flown that fast since back in the day when Andy was getting killed with "When's the MS-8 coming Andy? When's it coming?" Seems like only yesterday the MS-8 was being considered vaporware.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

oscardillo said:


> Attentive follow this post, I have a golf MK5 and will install a ms-8.
> 
> I would like to see the result, our car has the woofer very delayed.
> 
> What do you think of this?


I think it'll sound great if you're asking about MS-8 with factory hardware. The weakpoint is the terrible crossovers used from the factory. So that will keep you from getting horribly loud but I wouldn't complain about that. I don't know what you mean by the woofer being delayed though.



Babs said:


> Wow hard to believe time has flown that fast since back in the day when Andy was getting killed with "When's the MS-8 coming Andy? When's it coming?" Seems like only yesterday the MS-8 was being considered vaporware.


Crazy right? Now that it's here nobody likes it because of some QC issues and lack of total control when it's done  I'm still a fan! Keeps me from trying to re-master everything that's played. I enjoy it much more than having options available


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Heck I think they were great. I guess I was one of the folks that lucked out with the MS-8's auto-tuning. Sounded freakin great in my car. I'd love some Logic-7 goodness now actually. Kinda sad I sold it. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm still thinking about adding an extra amp or passives just to get Logic 7 into the mix. Passenger doors aren't a great spot to use for ambiance but I think it'll still do a great job.


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## oscardillo (Nov 16, 2010)

I800C0LLECT said:


> I think it'll sound great if you're asking about MS-8 with factory hardware. The weakpoint is the terrible crossovers used from the factory. So that will keep you from getting horribly loud but I wouldn't complain about that. I don't know what you mean by the woofer being delayed though.



Hello, I mean that the woofer is placed far behind, in addition to being very blocked by the seat.

How about the ms8 will respond in this situation?

I would like to hear your experience, change door panels it is expensive.

Thank you.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'll take a couple stabs because I don't know what you're asking...One woofer is in the bottom forward location of the front doors. The rear doors have a full range woofer that's pretty close to the driver and passenger.

The ms-8 can tune and account for their locations with a product that still images very well and is quite exceptional for reusing OEM parts. Aftermarket...I installed my mid-ranges in the kick panels when I stopped using the factory speakers. Everything sounded fine in both circumstances. Well, my audiofrog's sound MUCH better obviously. But the MS-8 has been excellent in both scenarios.

You could put mid-bass in the rear doors and due to the cone of confusion would probably do quite well. Mine are under the seats, sealed. The mid-range could be placed in the front doors, and tweets wherever and I'm sure still come out with a great sounding system if that's the direction you want to go. If you want 2-way...stick with the factory front door location.

Past that...Did I answer your question? If not, what did I miss?


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## oscardillo (Nov 16, 2010)

ok, now I understand. Jetta panel is not equal to golf mk5 panel.

The woofer is an 8 "and is located on the rear panel, up to the ass.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Ah ok...MKV panels are much nicer than what I have. They're a cinch to pull off and on. I think those vehicles fall in line with the opsodis(sp?) approach that Patrick Bateman pointed out.

That spot is good for mid-bass but not mid-range. I thought they put the mid-range forward the door handle? Is that only in the Golf wagon? You have a great setup for OEM look 3-way. You're very lucky. Especially with the sail panel tweeter mount from factory. I'm a fan of OEM look if you're wondering.

So yeah...MS-8 should handle that beautifully. Must be nice!


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Check out *SMD SunFlash* - fiberglass resin that stays maluable (no more race against the hardner-clock) until put in UV light, where it hardens in seconds!

LOVE LOVE LOVE this stuff... - can get it on Amazon: SMD SunFlash UV Activated Polyester Resin (1 Us Qt. 32oz): Industrial Fluids: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific




I800C0LLECT said:


> Ha... Thanks!
> 
> I'm loving these speakers. I hate waiting on resin to cure ;p


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Woah... That sounds like the best idea ever. I wish I would have known about that sooner!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah no kidding.. This could be really slick for those jobs such as dash pods etc where you have to glass it in the car, or what I'm thinking for pillars where I'll have to do some shaping around dash stuff, again requiring it to be in the car.. Just do the layering, then roll up the drop cloth and roll out of the garage into daylight.


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## HokieMike (Jul 11, 2010)

1800COLLECT,
Love the install. It is very much in the vein of what I would like to accomplish in my 2013 Passat. I have aftermarket mids and tweeters in the factory locations, along with a single 10" sub all powered off of a 5 channel micro amp under the front drivers seat. My problem now is that response of the door speakers. No midbass and a nasty spike in the upper midrange. I am using the factory wiring for the mids with new wiing run for the tweeters. Did you say that there was a factory passive in line with the door midrange? I cannot find one, but it might explain what I am hearing. I appreciate anyone with guidance here.

Oh, and Go Hokies!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Babs said:


> Yeah no kidding.. This could be really slick for those jobs such as dash pods etc where you have to glass it in the car, or what I'm thinking for pillars where I'll have to do some shaping around dash stuff, again requiring it to be in the car.. Just do the layering, then roll up the drop cloth and roll out of the garage into daylight.


That's exactly what I was thinking. The hardest part then would be preparation. I might grab some just to see how it works. Maybe I'll change something up?




HokieMike said:


> 1800COLLECT,
> Love the install. It is very much in the vein of what I would like to accomplish in my 2013 Passat. I have aftermarket mids and tweeters in the factory locations, along with a single 10" sub all powered off of a 5 channel micro amp under the front drivers seat. My problem now is that response of the door speakers. No midbass and a nasty spike in the upper midrange. I am using the factory wiring for the mids with new wiing run for the tweeters. Did you say that there was a factory passive in line with the door midrange? I cannot find one, but it might explain what I am hearing. I appreciate anyone with guidance here.
> 
> Oh, and Go Hokies!



I'm fairly certain that the mid has a full range signal. The Passat might be different though. The tweeter had a 6db slope calculated around ~5KHz. Where are you measuring the spike? It could be due to nearfield.

I'm still not done with mine though! I do have my headliner fabric now and I'll probably move forward with that for the A-pillars but it's pricey. I've just been too lazy to pull out the pillars and get going on all of that. The trunk will be easy as well...I just need to do some wire management, flip the sub, and make the false floor cover.

Once you start getting music you stop caring about what should happen though


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Ah ok...MKV panels are much nicer than what I have. They're a cinch to pull off and on. I think those vehicles fall in line with the opsodis(sp?) approach that Patrick Bateman pointed out.
> 
> That spot is good for mid-bass but not mid-range. I thought they put the mid-range forward the door handle? Is that only in the Golf wagon? You have a great setup for OEM look 3-way. You're very lucky. Especially with the sail panel tweeter mount from factory. I'm a fan of OEM look if you're wondering.
> 
> So yeah...MS-8 should handle that beautifully. Must be nice!


All MkV's got the midbass at the rear of the door, the midrange by the door pull handle, and tweeters in the sail panel. Even the MkVI JSW had that configuration, but it was really a MkV with a MkVI front end on it.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> All MkV's got the midbass at the rear of the door, the midrange by the door pull handle, and tweeters in the sail panel. Even the MkVI JSW had that configuration, but it was really a MkV with a MkVI front end on it.


A little upset I grabbed the Jetta over the Wagon...especially since I never considered speaker placement. I don't think the rear leg room was a big benefit. My wife couldn't stand the idea of owning a wagon though.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'll bet she likes SUVS though. 


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> I'll bet she likes SUVS though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She really likes the Audi q7.  oddly enough she wanted nothing to do with suv's for daily driving. She loves her Passat. Loved it so much we got it in the spot.

So... I reached mechanical limits of the gb25 playing free air. I don't remember the song but it was around 115 decibels a-weighted. I changed the crossover from 300hz back to 400hz.

Omg the midbass kicks like nothing else I've heard. I didn't notice before because I was more focused on stage.

The GB60 is flat out amazing. I do agree with Bing, they're really smooth and don't have quite the snap that I loved from my a/d/s. But they have so much more composure at loud volumes. The a/d/s 346is is still one of my favorite for low volume listening though.

I haven't had a ton of experience with higher end speakers but I think these are my new favorites by far. It's the first time since I was a kid that I'm really happy with my speakers.

But... Opsodis is in my head now. I'm thinking about mounting the midbass in sealed enclosures in the door by my hip. Then move the midrange into the stock woofer location.

I really can't say enough about how smooth the gb10 is as a tweeter. They can get loud but aren't offensive at all. Not laid back but very composed.

It's a lot easier to review components one at a time. But all at once... And it's just a game changer. I don't want to use any other brand anymore.

I remounted the sub properly too. I think my box is around .46 cubic feet and any a half pound of polyfill. I lost a little output on the low end but I eq'd that right back and didn't even need to retune the ms-8. This sub really bangs. I still can't get over how loud it is. I was around upper 120's c weighted in the car last night. Unbelievable. And it's so clean you don't realize how much output is coming from a small box. Couple people thought I had a couple twelves or 10's. I have a feeling getting it into a ported box would really be eye opening.

Well... Just some thoughts... Later


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Just posting thoughts...

Hoping to get home in time for NC meet. Also, I'm thinking I may look into moving the mid-range up into the pillar when I get home. Potentially moving my mid-bass into my doors too. Just thinking out loud for now.

If I were to get home in time for NC none of this would be complete so everybody would hear it in "testing" phase.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So the meet didn't work out. Still not home.

I'm thinking about grabbing the tweets Erin uses with his GB25s. It's the only component that doesn't stay below beaming so why not?

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-nd16fa-6-5-8-soft-dome-neodymium-tweeter--275-025

I have an itch to move the GB25s up to the A-pillar as well. The problem is...Erin's are a great example of keeping a classy OEM look. I don't have any ideas on how to do that with such a small A-pillar. The door would require a bit of work too. I'll keep thinking


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## charcoal grey (Feb 24, 2008)

I thought you mentioned using 2 channels of the MS-8 to run the stock rear speakers. If so how did you accomplish this with a 3-way active and a sub? I have a 2013 Gti and may be looking to attempt a 3-way up front if I can get it to look stock. I would like to power the rear speakers for my kids and will be using the MS-8 I have had new in the box for years now.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

charcoal grey said:


> I thought you mentioned using 2 channels of the MS-8 to run the stock rear speakers. If so how did you accomplish this with a 3-way active and a sub? I have a 2013 Gti and may be looking to attempt a 3-way up front if I can get it to look stock. I would like to power the rear speakers for my kids and will be using the MS-8 I have had new in the box for years now.


All you need is a passive crossover for the midrange and tweeter. Otherwise, you're correct...you run out of channels on the MS-8.

OR...

You could use an amplifiers' built in crossovers to accomplish the same thing. IMO...neither are a good idea unless you place the mud and tweeter adjacent to each other. I've been torn between both options and haven't made any updates, sadly.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## tony48 (Sep 19, 2016)

Sub'd. A lot of good info here that will help when I start on my GTI! Thanks


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

you can run the ms8 Subless, and just daisy the MS5001 off the midbass signal and use the awesome crossovers in those MS amps. You might find your subs blends even better!! My question is regarding running your tweets off ms8. I had the same amps/ms8 combo in my GTI and powered rears and center of ms8 power. Sounded great. But i was using 2 ohm speakers with higher sensitivity. But, now going 3 way front in my tundra. wish I had a second MS 1004, but if it saves me extra amp channels and still sound great then cool.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

That's a really good point. Using the "kaigoss" method should limit total hardware required. It would open up two channels on the ms-8 I could put towards logic 7...still no center channel though

I also tried another idea a few weeks ago. I ran 6.5" subs in place of mid bass. They were crossed at 300Hz. For a quick sealed box tossed in they sounded excellent. There was definitely potential in that idea. I didn't like the feedback from them though


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

Thanks for your build thread. I enjoyed reading you work through the issues and end up with a great result. It made me even more excited for my upcoming MS-8/Audiofrog build (Honda, though). I'll be starting the same way as you, initially just powering the factory speakers then adding more in.

I'm not surprised to hear about your problem with the Knukonceptz RCA's. I have a few pair and found the quality to be pretty bad.

Funny you mention the 346is's - I used to run a set of 346im's. I'm glad to hear the Audiofrog's compare favorably to those.

I'd never thought of running the GB10 directly off of the MS-8. I assumed it wouldn't put out enough power, but it definitely sounds like you crank the volume so now I'm considering it. I think it would let me get by with one less MS-A1004 than I was planning, and like you, I want a small install. Cool stuff


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

*Under-Seat Mid-bass*

OK guys...I've had a chance since getting home to dial in a few thoughts with settings. I've been making slight changes here and there all over the place. I even ran some 6.5" sealed subs under the seat for a couple days.

Here's my take on some things...

*1) 6.5" sealed subs under seats*

I didn't like this at all. Every panel and material you can think of starts getting excited. It's not bad if you're into that but I felt it was distracting and adding unnecessarily to the experience. The MS-8 handled it very well and it sounded just as good as the 10" sealed in my trunk. But more than anything, all those excited panels helped me realize that having a sub up front may not be much fun as I'd have to deaden and secure it all. blah. I'm not here to be extravagant...*I wanted to achieve my goals in the simplest way possible with a heavy focus on repeating my results.*

Maybe securing those boxes better would have helped or isolating them from the cabin even?...I dunno. I don't want to go down that road right now though.


*2) Under Seat Mid-bass:*

This is clearly the best budget minded location to use. If you grab some pre-made boxes for 6.5" woofers off ebay or somewhere else you can simply throw them under the seats and secure with a simple L-bracket and seat bolt or whatever else you can imagine.

However, after going through the subs I immediately realized I DON'T like my mid-bass playing too low. The quick fix was to stack my crossovers. on the MS-8, the HPF is set to 60Hz and 24 db slope. On my MS-A1004, I did the same. The LPF for the sub is 60Hz with 24db slope. Now I can't tell the mid-bass is under my seat.

ADDITIONALLY!!!...I'm hardly stressing the speakers at all now.... Where as playing roughly 130 dBm/C-weighted on my radioshack meter previously, I was getting quite a bit of excursion as I began crossing below 80Hz with 24dB slopes. Now, with the stacked, 48dB slopes, there's hardly any excursion with the GB60 speakers.

The MS-8 is now doing wonders with the integration and bass. Prior to the very steep HPF on the mids, things would get a little crasy when I was getting loud. Now, there is much more composure form the system overall and the not so excited panels and materials really adds to the experience. Very clean and crisp even at high volumes.


*3) Kick panel mid-range*

I'm glad this happened as well. I played with the crossover between the mid and tweeter anywhere from 2.3KHz to 4.5KHz. Right now I'm settled at 4KHz and 12db slopes. The MS-8 has pinned all the voices, even men, very well in the center of the vehicle. I only have one complaint, depending on the song I can have a random instrument play wide and low. I'm not sure if that's the way it's recorded or due to speaker placement. I'd like to get some experienced opinions in on that. I'm not real concerned because it's not consistent. I'd just be interested to know thoughts.



So anyways...that's where I'm at. I'm starting to get initiative again and I'll see how long the current setup keeps me happy. If I don't have any complaints against it I'll probably start moving on a proper install. I'm still fairly embarrassed with the current state of it  What a crazy journey starting with a budget what the heck install, trying to use amps I found laying around from the 90's, to owning the GB series. phew.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I wanted to add another thought...now that I've settled on my crossover points...I don't use the EQ on the MS-8 anymore. I only adjust the subwoofer output as needed. It's nice not stressing over the EQ every time you change songs. It all sounds great now. Hopefully I feel this way in another month or two. Then I'll know for sure


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## badshah (Dec 12, 2016)

Sorry where did you end up mounting the GB25's? Do you think a GB15 and GB25 together would be too large?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

My GB25s are in the kick panel. I'm real happy with them there. The mounting pictures are in this thread. 

I think the GB15 is a bad idea. Why? It's designed to play lower so that it mates to the GB60 in a 2 way. What I mean by that, is you would want to cross a tweeter lower to keep a 6.5 speaker from beaming.

That's why Andy created the GB15... So you can have a great sounding, no compromise 2 way sound system. So... If you want that, pass on the GB25

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## badshah (Dec 12, 2016)

Very helpful thank you, was the answer I was looking for. I saw the GB15 in person, that thing is a beast.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I bought a new amp. I was getting tired of trying to figure out how to keep with my "zero footprint" initiative. I haven't got all my wires organized yet but those blocks are tall enough that I can STILL carry my spare tire


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I was having issues with my speakers going in and out again. I stayed with Knukoceptz RCA's throughout this build. My first run-in with a bad cable I thought I fried my GB25. Luckily, nothing bad happened. They sent replacements free of charge. 

So I've been putting off a decent build for a while but with all the in/out sound troubles, I had a NASTY noise get pushed through my tweeter. One day it happened while in setup  The tweeter may have been damaged initially from that bad RCA...no idea. But this time I had a bad feeling. The tweeter continued play on and off for about a month.

Now I think my GB10 tweet is officially dead. I tested every cable and seemed to have more problems with those Knu RCAs than I ever imagined. So they're ALL GONE. JL all the way now. So at this point, I have one good tweet for 3-way. I have caps for the tweeters sitting in my garage so I'm a little miffed at myself for not installing them sooner. I hooked up the VW factory tweet and it played fine while the GB10 was silent.

Now I have a 5 week trip and I'm leaving with my car on Saturday. ;P It'll be tough to convince the wife I need a new $300 set of tweeters after swapping out amps so I here I come classifieds!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Out of curiosity, which Knu RCA line were you using?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

The Karma series...of course I purchased them back in 2015; it could have been a bad batch?

Karma SS RCA Kables


EDIT: The good news is that the MS-8 is still doing great


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I800C0LLECT said:


> The Karma series...of course I purchased them back in 2015; it could have been a bad batch?
> 
> Karma SS RCA Kables
> 
> ...


I use the same RCAs and purchased mine back in May of 2012. I've had a sneaking suspicion that I have some issues with some of mine, but I have never been able to isolate it to the RCAs. 

There have been multiple attempts at L/R swaps, etc. to see if the issue stayed with the interconnects. In none of the testing have I been able to conclude it is a bad RCA, but I haven't been able to isolate the source of my issues either. (Typically one channel being intermittently quieter than it should be until significant volume/voltage is applied.)

At this point I'm getting ready to make some significant changes to my system, so I might go ahead and install new interconnects while I am at it.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I had the SAME problem...mid range playing softly then leveling out, sometimes a tweeter going in or out. Mid-bass shifting here and there. I thought these were all JBL demons. So far...I have the GB25 playing full range until I get a tweeter replacement but I was REALLY thinking of getting a new DSP.

Reading everybody's problems really influenced the idea that I had a shoddy MS-8. I don't have a DMM so I coudln't test the RCAs either but I absolutely confirmed ALL MY WIRING WAS FINE!!! Another reason I thought it was the MS-8. So I decided to add Ferrules this time as another precaution. I grabbed the JL RCA's as I couldn't resist the purchase of the HD 900/5


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So I'm thinking after I clean up that wiring that I add in a beauty panel that also holds the spare tire changing tools. hrmmm. I'll have to get to work on that custom sub enclosure for the right rear of the trunk. I'll have to wrap those raised blocks in carpet too.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Got a listen to Roberts Jetta this past Saturday. It had no tweeters playing... just the GB25s in the kicks and GB60s under the seats. Nothing on axis. All I can say is my mind was blown how this thing imaged above the dash in this configuration. Great job Robert and very nice to meet you and your son.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks! I really appreciate the kind words. I was messing with a phone RTA app to give me somewhat of an idea about what's going on and was able to raise it a little higher. It's crazy what a few tweaks can do. I brought in a lot more impact with the sub and mid-bass too. I've known about that for a while but it took Scott showing me what I could do with a little more information. I wish you could hear it again! I definitely need my tweeters in before the fall

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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Thanks! I really appreciate the kind words. I was messing with a phone RTA app to give me somewhat of an idea about what's going on and was able to raise it a little higher. It's crazy what a few tweaks can do. I brought in a lot more impact with the sub and mid-bass too. I've known about that for a while but it took Scott showing me what I could do with a little more information. I wish you could hear it again! I definitely need my tweeters in before the fall
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Yeah you had the right foundation I think. She just had a little bump at 800hz or so. Does show how just a little work on the final curve on hot spots can help with a little judicious and prudent EQ cut here and there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Yup. I definitely need a mic and REW now 

I was messing with the top end where I'm lacking tweets and it really helped with the snap of the bass. Anyways... I'm starting on the pillars tonight. Can't wait to flock!

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## crackinhedz (May 5, 2013)

Truthunter said:


> Got a listen to Roberts Jetta this past Saturday. It had no tweeters playing... just the GB25s in the kicks and GB60s under the seats. Nothing on axis. All I can say is my mind was blown.


Me too! I couldn't believe the midbass was coming from under the seat. 

That GB10 can really get down too. 

Cool meeting ya Rob and shootin the **** about the world. Maybe see ya at the next one, give u a demo in mine.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Jsjzhddhskmzzn

When I realized I missed a demo in your ride I was ready to jump in that pot hole in the driveway! Lol I couldn't believe I missed out. Everybody seemed really impressed with your setup. I was really psyched to see your car pc. ;P

Guess I have a good reason to make sure I get to the next meet in the fall. Thanks for letting me vent a little too... Helps me deal with some of that stress  you're good ppl. Can't wait to hear that car!

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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I might have a good excuse to spend some money!!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Congratulations and what's on the shopping list lol ?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I would LOVE to upgrade my suspension for those heavy items I tend to carry at times. That was one reason I want near zero footprint. Adjustable coilovers aren't a necessity though. Lightweight wheels would be cool too!

Tough call. I'd love a head unit with Android auto. Chances are I won't do anything

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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Congrats Rob!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for the congrats everybody!!...So that shopping list item MIGHT have come up...

There's an issue with the hybrid system on my vehicle that VW hasn't been able to fix for more than 20K miles. It puts me in a bad spot when the drivetrain shuts down, CELs light up, and traffic is oncoming because I was trying to turn left...

VW agrees and I should hear back on their offer by next Tuesday.

In the mean time my wife is SUPER SUPPORTIVE of the idea that I should get a GOLF R  It's like the twilight zone..wtf?!?!?!? The fiscally responsible move is the GTI Sport...










But Limestone Grey Golf R is what I'm after...!!!


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Nice, really diggin the limestone color. GTI sport not available in that color?

Bummer though about the VW hybrid... not that old either :surprised:

Be fiscally responsible... get the R and sell me your Frog gear for cheap


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

That R is a beast! I've sold them before and had the pleasure of driving it. the exhaust will be audio enough IMO


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Just saw the Civic Type R hit the states as well.. You'd have to get in line for that one though.. Read somewhere the dealers will be pricing them well over MSRP.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that Civic R is the better of the two but I like the cargo space of the golf. I have a feeling I may just grab the GTI with a tune and other upgrades.

I also like the understated looks of the golf. I think it fits me better. But if all I wanted was a daily with the purpose of track only if definitely go Civic.

It'll be interesting whatever happens! I may just sell the audio frogs and give the hobby a break 

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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

vwjmkv said:


> That R is a beast! I've sold them before and had the pleasure of driving it. the exhaust will be audio enough IMO


You can't imagine the look on my face when I sent the pic to my wife and she suggested I buy it. I'm still waiting for the crypt keeper to pop out and start laughing

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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Thanks for the congrats everybody!!...So that shopping list item MIGHT have come up...
> 
> There's an issue with the hybrid system on my vehicle that VW hasn't been able to fix for more than 20K miles. It puts me in a bad spot when the drivetrain shuts down, CELs light up, and traffic is oncoming because I was trying to turn left...
> 
> ...




Get the R. It's orders of magnitude better than the GTI. my 2016 was Limestone Gray. Just know that if you get the Fender system you'll have to pull the signal after the OEM amp since the HU connects to it optically. Once I don't need the space of my truck anymore I'll likely get another R, but I'll hold out for white or blue this time. 

Oh, last time I looked, the clutch in the manual is the same as the one in the GTI and some people have had them go out, even on unmodified cars. The DSG will hold a crap ton more power and gets a 7th gear for 2017, but it's still an automatic.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

The Golf R is the only VW that I will consider. While I hated my GTI at first, modifying it has made it easier to live with, EXCEPT for the limitations of FWD. I'll take Haldex/Quattro over FWD any day of the week after test driving one.

Granted, there is still a part of me that wouldn't mind building a big turbo WRX... We'll just have to see where my next business venture takes me in terms of budget.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys. That really gives me the confidence I need to push for the R. I think I got lucky too... Found a guy who has a 2017 lapiz blue with 2K miles! He wants $34K for it because his wife decided she preferred a Grand Cherokee for daily driving. Now it's been sitting in the garage collecting dust. . Those 19" Pretoria wheels look killer too

He said hell throw in a JB4 tuner too. I think I'd rather go APR though. Thoughts on tunes?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Truthunter said:


> Nice, really diggin the limestone color. GTI sport not available in that color?
> 
> Bummer though about the VW hybrid... not that old either :surprised:
> 
> Be fiscally responsible... get the R and sell me your Frog gear for cheap


Limestone is an R specific color.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ChrisB said:


> The Golf R is the only VW that I will consider. While I hated my GTI at first, modifying it has made it easier to live with, EXCEPT for the limitations of FWD. I'll take Haldex/Quattro over FWD any day of the week after test driving one.
> 
> Granted, there is still a part of me that wouldn't mind building a big turbo WRX... We'll just have to see where my next business venture takes me in terms of budget.


Having owned all of those cars, as well as the last 2 generations of STIs, I'd do the R as my daily. The R's AWD is HEAVILY FWD biased and despite what the critics say, will absolutely be noticeable on a track, but in day-to-day driving, it's a lot less interfering than Subaru's, which can sometimes be noisy or fight you in tight turns in say, a parking lot. In poor weather, the STI AWD in particular (because of the LSDs front and rear) kicks the living **** out of the others, even the WRX. The WRX/STI are also a LOT louder inside. Even the current gen. I took the same road trip in my STI last October in my '17 STI as I did in April in my '17 Silverado and was noticeably less fatigued. I took my '16 R on a road trip a little longer than that in last April and retuned in July and it was orders of magnitude better than my '15 WRX or '17 STI. Unless you need the space or you REALLY want to change the HU or want the mileage of the WRX (it's a little better than the R) there is no reason to buy either of the Subarus over the R. If you're never going to track it or even drive all that aggressively, the GTI is the best option of the bunch. You'll even get more space in the hatch because the floor sits lower than the R because there's no rear diff. 
Oh, the Subarus WILL hold their value better. I made money on both of mine when I traded them in. I've made money on all 4 of my Subarus when I traded them in. The R was a break even. I owned the R the longest at maybe 7 or 8 months. the Subarus were all short-lived (*3-4 months) for various reasons and all were bought new. My GTI I owned for 2-2.5 years and was sold privately but I made a crap-ton of money on that one. 
I would NOT do a big turn WRX on the FA20DIT. They aren't too tolerant and become very fragile when you do.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Thanks for the input guys. That really gives me the confidence I need to push for the R. I think I got lucky too... Found a guy who has a 2017 lapiz blue with 2K miles! He wants $34K for it because his wife decided she preferred a Grand Cherokee for daily driving. Now it's been sitting in the garage collecting dust. . Those 19" Pretoria wheels look killer too
> 
> He said hell throw in a JB4 tuner too. I think I'd rather go APR though. Thoughts on tunes?


Is it a 6MT or a DSG? Unless the clutch has been upgraded by VW it's not worth it and the car is already stupid fast. Lapiz Blue is one of my favorite colors but I would HIGHLY recommend you get it clear bra'd since it's a ***** to touch up. I was SO pissed when I found out the '17s got the Pratorias and I was stuck with the Cadiz. God I hated those wheels. The finish was too fragile and I never carted for the look of them on the car. 

If you DO tune it, I wouldn't use the JB4. Just something about it bothers me. I have always like the reliability of APR tunes, even if they are more conservative.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for all that feedback. I was looking at the the other vehicles too but I appreciate a more refined ride these days. The wife and kids would make sure I know how they feel.

After looking up the JB4 I'm not a fan. The car is a DSG. It's hard to swallow at $42K. But for $34K I think it's perfect. The GTI sport does have the VAQ differential. It drove really well in the rest drive and I can get it for $22K. But I find myself wanting the subtle front end and a few other odds and ends. I could live with the golf R as is without a tune. But with a tune I can't imagine wanting anything else.

If brand new, GTI sport with PP is the only way I'd go. I think I'd like the LSD more than the Haldex. If I ever did get into tracking a car, I'd be less worried abound the GTI too

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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I think the finish on VW paint has been much more fragile as of late with ALL their cars. I planned on doing clear bra. Have you seen that Crystal hardener that is being marketed the last few years? I thought about trying that out too. 

I'll try to find the name...

I think this is it. http://www.autogeek.net/cquartz-paint-sealant.html

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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I like the blue but seeing Limestone Grey in person changes everything. Makes me think twice...btw, I can't find anything showing that 2017 R comes with 7 speed DSG. Is there a variant of the DQ250 with 7 gears? That would help the mpg on long trips


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I don't have much to say other than I've looked at the blue Golf R myself a few times over the past couple months and have just admired how sweet it looks. Not something that's practical *for me* but it's still a sweet looking car. Cut the instrument hood off and have a flat dash.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Everything I've seen shows the U.K. version getting the 7-speed and more power. I'll have to dog more for the US version. Same for the GTI getting a bump in power rendering the PP moot. They may wait on both for 2018 for the US. The R already gets 31MPG on the highway so a 7th gear won't make a huge difference. My lifetime average over 14k miles was just under 27MPG with a high of over 34MPG. It can be quite good on gas. 
I've seen the coatings but they are never as effective as Xpel. 
Limestone Gray in person was why I was ok with it. That and $37k OTD with Nav/DCC/6MT brand new was too good to pass up. 
For daily driving, even spirited driving, you won't miss the LSD much. I would rather have LSD over the XDS+, but the XDS+ isn't atrocious. You can always put LSDs in if you hit the track hard. 




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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Oh, congrats on the line number! I tested out of cycle and am waiting on my appeal to find out myself. 


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Having owned all of those cars, as well as the last 2 generations of STIs, I'd do the R as my daily. The R's AWD is HEAVILY FWD biased and despite what the critics say, will absolutely be noticeable on a track, but in day-to-day driving, it's a lot less interfering than Subaru's, which can sometimes be noisy or fight you in tight turns in say, a parking lot. In poor weather, the STI AWD in particular (because of the LSDs front and rear) kicks the living **** out of the others, even the WRX. The WRX/STI are also a LOT louder inside. Even the current gen. I took the same road trip in my STI last October in my '17 STI as I did in April in my '17 Silverado and was noticeably less fatigued. I took my '16 R on a road trip a little longer than that in last April and retuned in July and it was orders of magnitude better than my '15 WRX or '17 STI. Unless you need the space or you REALLY want to change the HU or want the mileage of the WRX (it's a little better than the R) there is no reason to buy either of the Subarus over the R. If you're never going to track it or even drive all that aggressively, the GTI is the best option of the bunch. You'll even get more space in the hatch because the floor sits lower than the R because there's no rear diff.
> Oh, the Subarus WILL hold their value better. I made money on both of mine when I traded them in. I've made money on all 4 of my Subarus when I traded them in. The R was a break even. I owned the R the longest at maybe 7 or 8 months. the Subarus were all short-lived (*3-4 months) for various reasons and all were bought new. My GTI I owned for 2-2.5 years and was sold privately but I made a crap-ton of money on that one.
> I would NOT do a big turn WRX on the FA20DIT. They aren't too tolerant and become very fragile when you do.


Right now I am torn between a Golf R and a M240i. I have another year or two before I make my final decision, unless the GTI gets totaled or experiences catastrophic failure in that time frame... 

Oh, and the Audi S4 is another one that I may consider since my head touches the roof in the A3 platform. I guess that huge ass sunroof takes away a lot of headroom because I fit in the MK7 Golf R just fine.

At least I know what I do not want and that is the Camaro, Challenger, Charger, and Mustang. I haven't driven a C7 Vette yet but that is the last of the American cars that I have considered. I was hoping Subaru would do something different with the STI by now versus running the EJ platform into the ground, but it is what it is.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ChrisB said:


> Right now I am torn between a Golf R and a M240i. I have another year or two before I make my final decision, unless the GTI gets totaled or experiences catastrophic failure in that time frame...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Those are all very different cars. The M240i manages to feel even smaller than the R but does drive better. The S4 is very much more a grand tourer. The A3 is the same platform as the R. They're basically the same car. 

I would own a C7 in a heartbeat. I liked my Charger a lot as well. But again, completely different than the German cars. 


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Oh, congrats on the line number! I tested out of cycle and am waiting on my appeal to find out myself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! Good luck to you too. It's a blessing for sure. Had no idea I was competitive. I was scared to make it and scared to fail! 

Really glad this sparked some conversation. I'm tired of doing the nice white thing too. At least I can carry all the sports great and it fits the family. I may end up going gray if the deal falls through.

How did the manual hold up? I have a sneaking suspicion that the clutch is just fine and that's it's a manufacturing issue

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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Thanks! Good luck to you too. It's a blessing for sure. Had no idea I was competitive. I was scared to make it and scared to fail!
> 
> Really glad this sparked some conversation. I'm tired of doing the nice white thing too. At least I can carry all the sports great and it fits the family. I may end up going gray if the deal falls through.
> 
> ...




Thanks! I retrained a few years ago and despite what they say about it being good to do and that it helps bring different perspectives, it absolutely hurts you on boards. The first year of the boards I had the second lowest board score in the career field. Last year I had a good board score but was testing SKT for the first time and didn't know what they focused on so I tried to absorb all of the reading material (we don't have CDCs). I expected a low SKT and it was. This year I crushed both tests but only 3 of the 13 dec points I earned on my last deployment will count but I missed the cutoff by exactly 3. It should be an easy appeal since the closeout date was before the PECD and the RPD was before results were released, but you know AFPC. It didn't show up or get scored because it wasn't entered until I got back in February. 


I'll talk cars all day long. Lord knows I go through enough of them. lmao
I wish we could get the R Sportwagen. That's my perfect car. Or an S4 Avant. Both with a manual. 

I liked that it everyone had a Limestone R when I had mine. I'm still not sure what color I'll go with when I get my next one. But it'll be white, blue, or gray. 

My clutch was fine but I don't really Hammer it too much. I did one track day and it was soft for a couple of days afterward, but it firmed up. The problem is that the clutch they use is right at the edge of holding the additional power of the R. It's fine for 210 HP, not so much for 292 HP. Changing to an updated clutch completely fixes it. It it was me, I'd do an LSD at the same time. 


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I've heard a lot of those stories. I also know somebody who had their decorations backdated, appealed, and approved! So you got a good chance for sure. I hate all the games they're playing right now overall. It's crazy

I really want the manual but I usually deploy a lot too. In those cases I feel a driven car is better than one on blocks so I need a DSG for the wife.

I tried talking her into learning manual but she wouldn't have it ;p the wagon R is perfect! I'd snatch one up in a second. I can't wait to find out what VW tells me

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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

ErinH said:


> I don't have much to say other than I've looked at the blue Golf R myself a few times over the past couple months and have just admired how sweet it looks. Not something that's practical *for me* but it's still a sweet looking car. Cut the instrument hood off and have a flat dash.


It certainly isn't practical for me either!! I've just been lucky that I haven't lost my butt in car deals. Used is the best way to go 

What do you guys think of the MIB I radio vs MIB II? Quality...I know you said I'd have to go after the amp on MIB II. But I can get a 2015 in Limestone Gray for $29K with DSG. It does have MIB I and 30K miles. But I hear that I can grab the signal from it much easier. I'm still going for blue '17 as my first choice though

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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Or an S4 Avant. Both with a manual.


I would love an S4 wagon, don't even care if it was auto only at this point. My A4 wagon is 11 years old and there are so few wagons out there I would want to replace it with.

The new Jaguar XF Sportbrake looks great, but at $75,000+ there are a lot of cars I would sooner spend that money on.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Do the MIB II. It's MILES better than the I. Also, it's the 2018s that will have the digital dash, larger screen, 7-speed DSG, and the exterior refresh. 

My cars all sit during deployments (120-day, 1:1 dwell) and they've all been fine. I wouldn't worry about it. 


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

After looking at the 2018 model, I think I prefer the 2017. I MUCH prefer the Pretorias and I think I like the 2017 front end better too. I do like the larger screen on the MIB II but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. 


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I was just looking into it too. There is a way to upgrade the MIB I to II but I think I'd rather just get a '17 model. It looks troublesome and light weight wheels are expensive. Guess I made up my mind! Now I need to see what kind of deal I get from VW. I'm not a fan of '18 my either. I like the understated approach

Looking around, they have given others discount on vehicles from Port to make up the difference in negative equity. So my only option maybe new :/ so if that's my only option I'm willing to pass on contact info about this car to others I guess

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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

naiku said:


> I would love an S4 wagon, don't even care if it was auto only at this point. My A4 wagon is 11 years old and there are so few wagons out there I would want to replace it with.
> 
> The new Jaguar XF Sportbrake looks great, but at $75,000+ there are a lot of cars I would sooner spend that money on.


The jags are nice! Their diesel SUV is on point too. I tried to go that route with the wife but I got a crazy good deal on a Grand Cherokee with ecodiesel motor

She hates the idea of a wagon or hatch but I can't wait  My sedan just doesn't have the same utility

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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I've already contacted a dealer in Amarillo about sourcing a 2017 when I get back. We'll see though. I'm not 100% committed to buying yet. I do like the utility of my Silverado, even if it is a ***** to park. 


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I might go with the 2015 just to keep stereo integration simple. Glad I kept my MS-8.

I'm torn between blue and limestone grey. Today is the day I should find out what VW is offering though and that could very well be the deciding factor. I've found a few threads with similar circumstance and VW offered a deal on a vehicle of choice in Port. Kind of odd. That really throws off my plans if they do something similar for me.

That'd be sweet if I got moved to Texas with you!

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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> I might go with the 2015 just to keep stereo integration simple. Glad I kept my MS-8.
> 
> I'm torn between blue and limestone grey. Today is the day I should find out what VW is offering though and that could very well be the deciding factor. I've found a few threads with similar circumstance and VW offered a deal on a vehicle of choice in Port. Kind of odd. That really throws off my plans if they do something similar for me.
> 
> ...


I don't think the integration is any different for the 2015 as it is for the '16s and '17s. If you really want to make it easy and you have the Fender setup, just recode the HU for non-Fender use. You'll have to add repair wires to the harness to get the signal, but you'll have 4 speaker-level outputs instead of the optical that forces you to use the Fender amp. If I get an R that's what I'll do.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Ah... There we go. So the same thing I did for my Jetta Hybrid.

Speaking of... They haven't determined if they will buyback. They said they're looking into lemon law for my state. I was worried about that. Luckily, I did have complaints about issues within 18 months of purchase.

Additionally, I was deployed for a year during my initial 18 months of ownership. I feel that's pertinent. So I passed along my deployment records and some photos and vids of the problem.

I'm crossing my fingers now!

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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Lemon or not, they buyback should take precedence.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Would it be a dick move to post on VW twitter page? Car has left me stranded in middle of road turning left at least a dozen times. That's a NHTSA investigation waiting to happen. Those dozen times are out of about 30 total episodes.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Not a dick move at all, if they are doing nothing in any hurry I would be posting it on Twitter, Facebook, post up on VWVortex in TCL as well. Getting stuck in the middle of the road on a left turn is not a good place to be, especially as you have B to think about.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Stranded a dozen times.....I'd be pissed, and would post it everywhere........


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

thanks...I've been very patient for 30K miles.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

I have no patience for a car that strands me, or places my family or self in danger by dying on me in traffic.......is this thing still under warranty? Has it been investigated by the dealer?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Drivetrain warranty is 60K, Hybrid drivetrain is warrantied for 100K miles. I wouldn't even mind paying for a fix but Corporate VW Techs can't figure it out either.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

I'd be swinging from the rafters of my vw dealership....lol....I'd raise so much hell they'd probably hear me in germany......


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Looks like they'd be eagar to please after all the bad press lately, although they certainly greased the right palms to quiet all that down quickly.......I like the look and feel of their cars, but no way in hell would I own one.....


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

claydo said:


> I have no patience for a car that strands me, or places my family or self in danger by dying on me in traffic.


Could not agree more, had a 2004 Maxima that kept having various problems, last straw was it breaking down on Skyline Drive.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Just got the phone call...denied. They say they can't reproduce the issue so it's fine.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

share my tweet please 

https://twitter.com/I800C0LLECT/status/878373263528701953


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

I800C0LLECT said:


> share my tweet please
> 
> https://twitter.com/I800C0LLECT/status/878373263528701953


Done. Not that I have many followers or use Twitter all that much, but retweeted anyway. 

Cannot replicate the problem... Do you have a dash cam? Might be worth the $100 on a cheap one to set it up pointing at your dash, when it cuts out, say the time and date so you get a log of it happening.

Off topic, but might be down in your area for 3-4 days in August.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I appreciate it...truth is...I looked through all my service records and I don't see notes thus far. I'll check with the dealership. Without notes I probably don't have a leg to stand on and I should just trade in :/

Something I'll have to marinate on I guess. Any suggestions for a fun to drive vehicle that still has some utility? I JUST test drove a Golf R manual. It's perfect. (sigh).


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Fun to drive and with utility, I think you are limited to hatchbacks. I keep looking at the Focus RS, have you given that, or the ST any thought?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I really haven't...guess I will  I keep hearing the RS and ST are amazing to drive


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

I want the RS for the AWD, plus I always wanted an Escort RS Cosworth as a kid. Go drive one, will be interested to hear how it compares to the Golf R


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Well FYI...I actually JUST drove a red Golf R manual. It was a great drive...it was hard to walk away from it. Truth is, I went to CarMax to see what they'd offer for trade. They were a far cry from what my dealership offered. I guess I can't really complain too much. It's been a good car


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

So it's all over...(sigh). Gonna miss the Jetta. Besides that dumb hiccup it really was a great ride. I calculated that I saved about $4600 over the last few years averaging about 40mpg overall vs 16mpg. Combined with my wife's Passat we've saved another $5100.

We've really done well. So now I have an accord coupe with the V6. I guess you can say I'm trading some mileage for reliability. Without the "eco" button I've above 35mpg in a few driver's already. A few others say they've gotten as high as 40mpg on a single trip with the eco button on. Apparently, it can shut down 3 cylinders in light driving. I got a great deal overall since the 9th gen is discontinued. The new accords arrive in August.

A little sad it's not a Golf R but I can't complain (and the wife likes it better). The radio is definitely awkward. I've been having a hard Anyways, here it is...


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

I REALLY wanted an Accord coupe, but I just couldn't get over how the dash looked with the dual screens. That's the color I wanted too.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Congrats, is that a 2016 version ?


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

It's a 2017. Yeah, the radio is ridiculous. I went to a few dealerships trying to get a low end V6. I ended up getting a higher end version for the same price though *shrug* I hate the radio so far. It's not intuitive AT ALL.

I do like the idea of GB15s in the said panel


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Oh man!! Nice ride! Research the heck out of that head unit. Might be some slick integration options with that thing. 


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I have a feeling there is some slick options to integrate! I've seen HDMI from the factory in some YouTube videos. I also read the previous version had balanced full range output to the factory amp (which I have)... So I'm sure there's some interesting options 

I told a few others I'm not sure I'm ready to peel that onion yet. With football season just around the corner I won't have any time due to coaching ;0


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Table that build for now and really get your know the car first. This way it allows you time to research the heck out of it and fully decide what's what.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I've got a '14 EX-L so I've got the older H/U, but you should be in the same boat. Differential balanced out, 3.0v at 39/40 on the volume (the sub clips before the other channels) and no filters. There is a member from driveaccord that is selling an adapter harness on eBay that should work with the 9.5 gen wiring so it's plug and play to adapt to RCA. All you need is an amp/processor that accepts balanced in and you're good to go. I've got a set of Mille ML1600's in the door with minor cutting of the metal. The plastic rear deck rattles if you don't deaden (I know standard info, but a surprise to some), and some complain that the rear seat kills bass frequencies too much.

Congrats on the purchase! I turned over 93k on the way to work tonight.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

I800C0LLECT said:


> I do like the idea of GB15s in the said panel


Honda's definitely gotten it right with their tweeters in the sails!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Officially it's an Accord Coupe EX-L V6 w/nav and Honda sense? Or something rather...blah

So I've been toying. The head unit is made by Clarion and runs on Android 4.2 (jellybean). I found the eq file in the Android system and disabled it... The vehicle did fairly well without any correction. Supposedly there's 22lbs of deadener from factory on the fire wall alone. They've added another 17lbs in the wheel wells, I think I quoted that right? The salesman was pointing this out and he seemed to know quite a bit of technical details about the vehicle. Supposedly C&D journalists or somebody said the touring had more deadener than the other models but it isn't corroborated anywhere. My trim and touring trim both have active noise cancellation too. I'm not a Honda guy so I'm sure other trims have it too but I'm not great with these details.

So driving it... It's quiet.  I do get some mild wind noise but not like my Jetta. I can definitely see why Honda's are known for good SQ. Resonance and reflections are very well behaved. The ride as a whole is very tight and composed.

I almost don't want to upgrade anything at this point. If it was time aligned for driver's seat it would be perfect (but not nearly as loud as my audiofrogs). It feels like the two seat setting with the MS-8 without center channel.

I'm really starting to like the car. I thought I'd miss having a turbo or supercharger. The naturally aspirated V6 is actually pretty nice. It can move the car really well. It has a bit of power and it shows in some dynos at the wheel. I guess there's a turbo that gets it to 500whp pretty quick. I don't really use all the crazy radio features while driving. I just plug in my phone for Android auto and forget the rest. The safety features are pretty cool. I turned on the Lane assist and it literally corrects you when you drift too close to the lines. The two monitor system turns out to be very functional too. The blind spot and rear view cameras show on the top monitor.

I need to check out the CD player still. The door mids are basically in the kick panel area so I'm inclined to use the doors if I upgrade. Tweets are in a great spot too, as noted above! 

Anyways...a bad situation turned into a nice upgrade. Thanks for the input guys


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Nice ride Rob! I dig the two tone interior. Plenty o' smooth power from the NA 6 too (more than one needs in a DD IMO) and it gets respectable mpg.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Truthunter said:


> Nice ride Rob! I dig the two tone interior. Plenty o' smooth power from the NA 6 too (more than one needs in a DD IMO) and it gets respectable mpg.


The mpg is kind of mind blowing. The city mpg is really only hindered by idling at lights. I didn't think about mileage at all when purchasing. The ride home was 30+miles and that was the first time I hit 36mpg. Definitely more power than needed for DD.

I was torn on the two tone but kind of glad now since it breaks up the interior. Still need some ceramic tint. I may add the Honda mud guards to help the paint. It has a build date of April but the clay bar looked like it grabbed about 6 months with of dirt.


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## hessdawg (Feb 20, 2007)

Great build and install 
We just bought a 2013 hybrid sel premium and I really do love the car. I handles well, quiet and it's pretty quick for a hybrid. The only thing I'm really disappointed in is the gas mileage. I've babied it allot on its first hwy trip and pretty pissed to find out I it got 34 mpg.
My 01 civic being flogged like a mule and doing 75-85mph the whole time gets 35-42 mpg.
I feel the EPA flat out lied with the 48mpg it said we should get on the hwy


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

That's weird... On a recent trip to Florida I had 56mpg on one leg of the trip in my Jetta Hybrid. When I went to naiku's meet I was driving it pretty rough through the mountains at one point and hand calculated 34mpg. I had filled up when I got there and when I left.

I don't like to baby vehicles but I don't try to drive them into the ground either. If you want any information hit me up anytime. Those 1.4L motors are solid. It's a really nice drivetrain. There Accord 2.4L has the same numbers as the hybrid drivetrain. BUT... The hybrid gets full torque around 1250rpm's. It was definitely quicker to 60mph too. The CVT just can't compete. That's why I opted for the V6. I'm stuck with auto trans due to the wife and it doesn't drive as nice as the Jetta Hybrid either. But at least it can move the vehicle pretty well when I need it.

After all the test drives I still prefer the German driving experience and I'll pick that any day if that's all I care about. Add in the fuel savings and over 5 years that accumulated to almost $10K across 2 cars, I still love VW.

Don't get down on it yet.. It may still surprise you. Going 25 miles to work, my hand calculated tanks ranged from about 37mpg to 46mpg using heavier wheels and tires than factory


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## hessdawg (Feb 20, 2007)

I800C0LLECT said:


> The mpg is kind of mind blowing. The city mpg is really only hindered by idling at lights. I didn't think about mileage at all when purchasing. The ride home was 30+miles and that was the first time I hit 36mpg. Definitely more power than needed for DD.
> 
> I was torn on the two tone but kind of glad now since it breaks up the interior. Still need some ceramic tint. I may add the Honda mud guards to help the paint. It has a build date of April but the clay bar looked like it grabbed about 6 months with of dirt.


Just re read your whole post .
Sounds like you had a very common problem with your hybrid.i read about it a few other places. Did the do the recall service on the dsg fluids. That recall describe your problem exactly.The other big issue is the mectronics unit inside the dsg going out. We just had ours replaced under warranty and it was about $3000. 
Congrats on the new accord


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

hessdawg said:


> Just re read your whole post .
> Sounds like you had a very common problem with your hybrid.i read about it a few other places. Did the do the recall service on the dsg fluids. That recall describe your problem exactly.The other big issue is the mectronics unit inside the dsg going out. We just had ours replaced under warranty and it was about $3000.
> Congrats on the new accord


I did have the recall. I even negotiated the mineral oil change at 40K to $100(maybe $150?). Some days it would be bad... Other days nonexistent. Supposedly, replacing the hybrid system relay helped others too. Something is definitely not sending the right information which leads to the ECU trying to compensate. I wasn't going to get stuck with a $7K dsg replacement after drivetrain warranty ran out. That gamble led to the Accord purchase. I just couldn't stomach throwing that much at a vehicle that was based on $16K build.

There's a good chance everything would be fine but there was the emotional conflict too. My wife, in-laws, family, and others were always bringing up the safety issue. My wife was getting stressed out. She loves Honda and that's why I ultimately went down that road. She knew how bad I wanted the Golf but I thought that I had better give her piece of mind. I'm flexible... No big deal. At least I know I'll have good resale if I decide to move on


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## hessdawg (Feb 20, 2007)

Yeah I'm trying to learn how to drive this car. I love the adaptive bi xenon headlights
Looking forward to your accord build


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I800C0LLECT said:


> I did have the recall. I even negotiated the mineral oil change at 40K to $100(maybe $150?). Some days it would be bad... Other days nonexistent. Supposedly, replacing the hybrid system relay helped others too. Something is definitely not sending the right information which leads to the ECU trying to compensate. I wasn't going to get stuck with a $7K dsg replacement after drivetrain warranty ran out. That gamble led to the Accord purchase. I just couldn't stomach throwing that much at a vehicle that was based on $16K build.
> 
> There's a good chance everything would be fine but there was the emotional conflict too. *My wife, in-laws, family, and others were always bringing up the safety issue.* My wife was getting stressed out. She loves Honda and that's why I ultimately went down that road. She knew how bad I wanted the Golf but I thought that I had better give her piece of mind. I'm flexible... No big deal. At least I know I'll have good resale if I decide to move on


What exactly was their basis for thinking the Honda was safer? The issues with your hybrid system or general safety overall? I hope it's not the latter because the Honda is absolutely a step backward in that aspect. It might run forever, but it's not a safer car. No one beats ze Germans in real-world crash performance.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

The Germans build very safe cars! Their concern was that I kept getting stranded with oncoming traffic. It was stressing out my wife whenever I went somewhere with the kids. I felt like I dealt with it fairly well though and i knew not to do anything too daring. *Shrug*

Forgetting those crash star ratings...I do feel that I'm more likely to walk away from an accident driving a VW


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

lashlee said:


> I've got a '14 EX-L so I've got the older H/U, but you should be in the same boat. Differential balanced out, 3.0v at 39/40 on the volume (the sub clips before the other channels) and no filters. There is a member from driveaccord that is selling an adapter harness on eBay that should work with the 9.5 gen wiring so it's plug and play to adapt to RCA. All you need is an amp/processor that accepts balanced in and you're good to go. I've got a set of Mille ML1600's in the door with minor cutting of the metal. The plastic rear deck rattles if you don't deaden (I know standard info, but a surprise to some), and some complain that the rear seat kills bass frequencies too much.
> 
> Congrats on the purchase! I turned over 93k on the way to work tonight.


Been thinking about what you said... Know anybody who has added subs in the rear seat panels? Custom obviously...hrmm


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I haven't seen it done in the newer body styles, but I'd be interested in seeing it done.


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