# Big name Midbass shoot out?



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I am wondering if we could get NPDANG to host a shoot out for us. Mainly using big name 6.5-7 midbass drivers like Apine, Kicker, Pioneer, CDT, Focal, Image Dynamics, MBquart, and ETC. 

I am willing to contribute some drivers for the test.

Just curious how some of these drivers compare to the DIY drivers.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

this is a diy forum .


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I know what a DIY forum is. DIY does not mean you cant use a big name mid. I did not state lets do a comp shoot out. I stated a midbass shoot out.
So my question is, me using a CDT mid and someone using a Peerless mid makes the guy with a peerless mid a DIYer and I am not?

DIY also means achieving great sound with any combo of drivers it takes to do it.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

i have several 6.5" mids from comp sets i could contribute including cdt hd, memphis mcsq, diamond hex, pg xenon...


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

The more comparisons the better, but I always felt there is quite a bit of info already available on a lot of the options, at least for the home audio derived options. Now I _would_ like to see some more car audio specific hardware as that is sort of not all that mentioned/tested here. There are discussions of some of the options, but nobody really offers actual reviews/tests like seen in the Review forum. I know there are a lot of _good_ car audio woofers, mids, and tweeters out there that are almost wholely forgotten on this forum.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

The question comes up often. People want to compare DIY stuff to what they are familiar with. If we can put the brand name speakers on a map with the same DIY stuff it will help people better understand price/value between DIY and brand name car audio equipment. I think this is a great idea and no matter what the results are, it will be beneficial to the community.

Unfortuately, I don't have any spare equipment to offer for this testing. However, if no one else has them, I can offer up my DLS Iridium 6.5" drivers for this...as long as I get them back in a reasonable amount of time...since they are being used at the moment and I don't have anything to swap them out with.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Beau said:


> http://www.caraudio.com/forum/


LMAO


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

8675309 said:


> DIY also means achieving great sound with any combo of drivers it takes to do it.


Amen to that. Who wrote the rules that DIY means Dayton and Peerless?  If you can take a Dyn set to the next level, I wanna be your best friend.


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

i've got an idq8 if this ever goes down


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## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

8675309 said:


> DIY also means achieving great sound with any combo of drivers it takes to do it.


Agreed 100%. At last.

I don't get this "mutually exclusive" mentality a few ppl have here...lol.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Fellippe said:


> Agreed 100%. At last.
> 
> I don't get this "mutually exclusive" mentality a few ppl have here...lol.


well said. while i may be about to most likely end up with 3 pairs of seas drivers for my frontstage, i'm proud to say that my amps and sub are memphis. reliability is the key factor here with the amps and my old hpo is tried and true with the ability to get stupid loud while still sounding excellent. yes, most of the memphis subs with a paper cone and foam surround CAN sound good in the right box


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

Fellippe said:


> Agreed 100%. At last.
> 
> I don't get this "mutually exclusive" mentality a few ppl have here...lol.


True but at the same time not spending more money to buy less quality. Rememeber "big names" spend lotsa money for marketing, fancy packaging, girls in bikinis, bright colors, and all the oohs and ahs that the consumer will end up paying for. 

Ive had Polk SR's, MB, Alpines (not F1), morel and the like and when you pick up a Seas or Scan to compare, there is very little comparison. You def. feel youve paid for good research, development, engineering and materials, not a big bright shiny colorful box with styrofoam in all the right places, but maybe not the copper per se.

And just like said before many car drivers are just rebadged and reworked DIY drivers, but cost more, sometimes 3x's or more.

Id rather have either compact tweeter shootout, chambered tweeter shootout, 4.5"-5.5" DIY shootout, 10", 12" sub shootout, or even a ribbon tweeter SO, double blind amp shootout (to really answer that DIY myth), wow there is so much we could really do and you really wanna test pioneers and alpines?? pooh.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

A *real* DIY-er would BUILD his own speakers before installing them!


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I disagree to some point. Yes lots spend a crap load of money on ads. It is a key to selling things. Besides most drivers that are rebaged have been reworked to fit in an automotive application. Mainly an IB type application. Just because they have their mark up does not mean they suck. If you search you can find most of the big name mids at cost or below. 

And the statement that Seas and Scan is better is an opinion because there is no comparison test. 

Just because you use drivers that are designed for a home application in your car, does not mean you are a DIYer. Just because you use a 3 way or 4 way setup with midbass and mids and tweeters put wherever you can fit them in the front of your car does not make you a DIYer. Do it your self is an open game. 

2 way setups can work great and you will have less to tune and setup. You can still achieve a awesome results with a 2 way. So I honestly believe this is a valid request for a test on big name 6.5’s and a comparison with the norm DIY drivers.

So my question again is are you guys scared that a big name midbass may work or sound better than your driver with no name?



If not, what will this test hurt?





andthelam said:


> True but at the same time not spending more money to buy less quality. Rememeber "big names" spend lotsa money for marketing, fancy packaging, girls in bikinis, bright colors, and all the oohs and ahs that the consumer will end up paying for.
> 
> Ive had Polk SR's, MB, Alpines (not F1), morel and the like and when you pick up a Seas or Scan to compare, there is very little comparison. You def. feel youve paid for good research, development, engineering and materials, not a big bright shiny colorful box with styrofoam in all the right places, but maybe not the copper per se.
> 
> ...


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## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

I like the sound of this, and I have some drivers I would donate for the cause (Lorentz, Kicker RMB, some anicient but new Kicker Impulse). They don't work for me currently, but they may be just what someone else needs to a tee.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I want to clarify one thing. I am shootig for a 6.5 - 7 that will work good in a 2 way application. Not just a pure midbass.


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## CBRworm (Sep 1, 2006)

If this were going to happen I could send a Seas CA18RNX, P18RNX, an Alpine SPX177R mid, and possibly a DLS IR6.5, although these have probably all been tested before.


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## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

If I don't sell them first my DLS UR6's are in.


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## BoomHz (Apr 20, 2007)

andthelam said:


> True but at the same time not spending more money to buy less quality. Rememeber "big names" spend lotsa money for marketing, fancy packaging, girls in bikinis, bright colors, and all the oohs and ahs that the consumer will end up paying for.
> 
> Ive had Polk SR's, MB, Alpines (not F1), morel and the like and when you pick up a Seas or Scan to compare, there is very little comparison. You def. feel youve paid for good research, development, engineering and materials, not a big bright shiny colorful box with styrofoam in all the right places, but maybe not the copper per se.
> 
> ...



What's wrong with girls in bikinis


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## forty5cal1911 (Sep 11, 2006)

I've got a set of Diamond D971 7" midbass/midrange drivers I would love to see tested against some of the others to see how they stack up.


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## slow2.2sonoma (Jul 9, 2006)

I say we should have the test, but include all car manufactures. A true diy'er is out to save money and do it him self. If a big name manufacture has a superior product I don't see why you would be a true diy'er if you used it. I will admit from my little experience that big names do tend to be of less quality imo...So a test of all companies big and small would be nice also...


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## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

andthelam said:


> Ive had Polk SR's, MB, Alpines (not F1), morel and the like and when you pick up a Seas or Scan to compare, there is very little comparison. You def. feel youve paid for good research, development, engineering and materials, not a big bright shiny colorful box with styrofoam in all the right places, but maybe not the copper per se.
> 
> And just like said before many car drivers are just rebadged and reworked DIY drivers, but cost more, sometimes 3x's or more.


I disagree with most of what you said.

Most people don't realize when they see a home driver and car driver that there is a difference. Everything may appear to be the same, but the change in impedance, and little adjustments to change q value can add up to a substantial improvement in a car environment. 

I do ALOT in home audio as well as car audio. I build HT systems for certain home builders in the area, and also local enthusiasts. As well as do cars here and there. (seems ht has taken up most of my time anymore) But I am continually floored at how many people incorrectly use drivers. I'll know a driver very well in different applications, then I'll see someone use this driver in a car, and complain about sound from it, and it all boils down to using the wrong driver in the wrong enclosure or location.

Using car drivers, eliminates alot of these hassles. You have a driver that is meant to be in an IB install and used off axis. Right there helps solve 70% of the problems I hear people complain about.

Other complaints is the price. Well, with the component set, you are getting 4 drivers and a pair of passive crossovers MEANT for your drivers that are compact and easy to use. No soldering needed, no having to find a place for huge home built passives... 

Let alone the cost anymore of building passive crossovers. (the prices are starting to bug me).

I'm not in any way saying car audio drivers reign supreme, but to say they all are overpriced junk, is just wrong.

I'd be willing to put the performance of a quart 4" qsd mid up against a seas excel driver, in performance, and build quality. 

There are many drivers I could do that with.


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

Have you guys even considered a subwoofer shootout? I've never seen BL curves, non-linear distortion measurements, or really any other measured parameter for the multitude of pure subwoofer drivers available today (ie RLP, FiQ, SI Mag, JL W7, W6v2, Ascendant Avalanche, Mach5 18/IXL whenever its available, etc etc etc)


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

backwoods said:


> I'd be willing to put the performance of a quart 4" qsd mid up against a seas excel driver, in performance, and build quality.
> 
> There are many drivers I could do that with.


Although, I dont believe a shoot-out of mass produced drivers is really that beneficial to our community (we all focus on DIY drivers and use them in our installs, if we're choosing driver "X" over driver "Y" what difference does it make when compared to car audio drivers? Shouldn't we focus on the attributes of the specific drivers we'll be using in our installs and compare them to the other drivers that we may consider using?) I would like to have that claim proven/debunked as I find it hard to believe. What aspects of performance are you comparing? (non-linear distortion? linear distortion? off-axis response?)


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Id be curious to how my polk sr mids compare to say seas lotus (which are not DIY but get the same treatment here cus theyre seas).

We know that rainbow kickbass are great speakers diy or not. Focal utopias as well as dls. Im curious as to how they actually compare to popular DIY setups.

I support this 100%


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

thadman said:


> Although, I dont believe a shoot-out of mass produced drivers is really that beneficial to our community (we all focus on DIY drivers and use them in our installs, if we're choosing driver "X" over driver "Y" what difference does it make when compared to car audio drivers? Shouldn't we focus on the attributes of the specific drivers we'll be using in our installs and compare them to the other drivers that we may consider using?) I would like to have that claim proven/debunked as I find it hard to believe. What aspects of performance are you comparing? (non-linear distortion? linear distortion? off-axis response?)


And too add, I think this sort of test is what the community is all about. If purchasing driver made for car audio would result in better results in some situations, I would like to know it. Car audio drivers have some important aspects that make them more easy to use in car audio such as - shallow depth, weather treatment, high freq response, lower impedances. If the goal is the best sound for cheap, then its valid.

Example, I used a pair of NOS Oz audio 5.25 speakes and a seas neo textiles with jl audio passive and I am amazed at how good the speaker combo works. They sound perfect together.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

backwoods said:


> I disagree with most of what you said.
> 
> Most people don't realize when they see a home driver and car driver that there is a difference. Everything may appear to be the same, but the change in impedance, and little adjustments to change q value can add up to a substantial improvement in a car environment.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree. 

1. The Seas Excel in many respects outperforms the MBQ qsd 4". At least objectively with regards to distortion performance, cone materials, etc. Subjectively, I don't doubt that there are people that find the two drivers to be of comparable performance.

2. Just because a driver is marketed for car audio doesn't necessarily mean that it was done so with optimal performance in mind. There are so many examples of poor quality, highly marked up products.

3. I just don't think it's possible to properly design a passive crossover that fits a wide variety of installs. Not to mention many of them skimp on things such as impedance compensation, use cheap quality components, and most importantly there's simply no way to predict the phase or frequency response of a driver for such a large variety of installs. The filter often ends up having a very poor response when used in a car.

In some sense, I do agree with you though. To the average consumer ease of use is significantly higher with car audio branded products, and to the average consumer who just tosses things into a door using the stock mounting and doesn't know what a crossover is is probably better off... but I still think that price to performance and overall performance is much higher with high end oem drivers provided you know how to setup and tune them.


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

I have a JL Audio XR650 component set laying around, I'd like to see those midbasses tested as I've never found any useful information on them. I'm pretty positive that they won't perform that well at all, especially compared to SEAS, Scanspeak, Peerless Exclusives and the like. But that's the beauty of such a test


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Dangerranger said:


> I have a JL Audio XR650 component set laying around, I'd like to see those midbasses tested as I've never found any useful information on them. I'm pretty positive that they won't perform that well at all, especially compared to SEAS, Scanspeak, Peerless Exclusives and the like. But that's the beauty of such a test



I think that whole set minus the xover are rebadged units. The woofer is a Vifa and tweeter is an LPG if IIRC. If that's the case they have been tasted before


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

cvjoint said:


> I think that whole set minus the xover are rebadged units. The woofer is a Vifa and tweeter is an LPG if IIRC. If that's the case they have been tasted before


I was pretty sure the tweeter was LPG sourced, I'd heard that before.

Wasn't sure at all about the woofer, especially with the Kurt Mueller soft parts, didn't know who assembled it all and put the motor together.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I forget I tested these before...anyhow. I remember going to madi and checking vifa under autosound I think and they had a model that looked exactly the same (rubber boot aside). The new autosound stuff that I checked on mady today is different than the jl s I had. then again maybe JL changed the xr set lately lol


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## forty5cal1911 (Sep 11, 2006)

I would be perfectly willing to submit a nominal donation for the time and effort on npdangs part. Honestly I would love to see how the Diamonds, Dyns, Morels, and Focals etc. fare against the Seas, HATs, Scan-Speak, Daytons, etc. 

Just what are the pros and cons of each camp? What is compromised by going with a "home" audio driver or on the flip side a "car" audio driver? I have read tons of reviews and have gleaned a lot of information from this site. However, I have run everything from MB Quartz, Boston Acoustics, Image Dynamics Horns & Midbass (CD-2 Comp Mini Horns & Old ID series 6.5"), Macrom (Anybody remember these guys?! Super Great sound second only to the IDs). I have always been able to produce "great" sound in my vehicles. Read "great" as very good to myself and other knowledgeable persons. I have never competed or anything like that but consider myself a true audiophile.

This time around I have critically listened to almost everything I could get my hands on. These Diamonds sounded truly magnificent to me. I would love to get a truly comprehensive review of some of the higher end "car" audio drivers out there to see what the story is. Just my $.02.


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## Guest (May 9, 2007)

npdang said:


> I have to disagree.
> 
> 1. The Seas Excel in many respects outperforms the MBQ qsd 4". At least objectively with regards to distortion performance, cone materials, etc. Subjectively, I don't doubt that there are people that find the two drivers to be of comparable performance.
> 
> ...


yeah npdang already rained on my 4" QSD parade  

did you ever post those Klippel results?


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Beau said:


> http://www.caraudio.com/forum/


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## MIAaron (May 10, 2005)

First off I want to say that I greatly appreciate the work npdang puts into this forum and his general input. I have nothing against npdang and agree with most of his philosophies in audio. Don't take what I have to say as a jab on him, diy in general, or diyma members. This is my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree or like it.

IMO, the most common issue I see on car forums is the lack of measured performace, or a fairly trained ear with a good reference. One or the other is required to get good results consistently. Most people skip this step as they either don't want to spend the money or don't understand what they are hearing. This is far more detrimental to DIYMA as speakers that are more difficult to tune are recommended here all the time. IMO, the inherent theme of this forum should require it to be emphaized even more, as it introduces more variables. 

I agree with backwoods and think the average car audio forum member will be much better off with speakers that are optimized for their specific installation. I think people being amazed at the midbass performance of the rainbow profi's and the PRS mids is a perfect example of this. I know that in npdang's opinion the majority of car audio speakers don't fall under this catagory. I just hope with the theme of this forum that it isn't only based on his subjective opinons. How do we know if they are never tested in the same objective mannar as the rest of the drivers? Or do we know they don't just because they are made by kicker?


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## agentk98 (Oct 31, 2006)

Dangerranger said:


> I was pretty sure the tweeter was LPG sourced, I'd heard that before.
> Wasn't sure at all about the woofer, especially with the Kurt Mueller soft parts, didn't know who assembled it all and put the motor together.


Oh wow. Really? Those were LPGs!? Ok, That makes me glad getting the textile neos! The XR tweets were a bit too bright for my tastes. 
I can also say the CA18RNX kicks better than the Kurt Mueller poly cone.

So yeah, Npdang, please make a comparison! I'd love to see some numbers since I for one also started in car audio with the highly marketed, overly priced brands.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

werewolf said:


> yeah npdang already rained on my 4" QSD parade
> 
> did you ever post those Klippel results?


Will be posting them in a big 4" shootout with a bunch of others.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

npdang said:


> Will be posting them in a big 4" shootout with a bunch of others.


when? please do tell...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm really swamped right now but I'm hoping to do it before Saturday. I got a nice collection of Seas 4" drivers... the old lotus mag, new lotus paper, nextel... thanks to autiophile and dual700 

Best motor goes to the exclusive 4" though... with the 5" not too far behind. Not sure why the 7" doesn't seem as nice as the smaller drivers... and I've measured 3 of them. There's a bunch of other little ones mbq's, rainbows, etc. as well.


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

npdang said:


> I'm really swamped right now but I'm hoping to do it before Saturday. I got a nice collection of Seas 4" drivers... the old lotus mag, new lotus paper, nextel... thanks to autiophile and dual700
> 
> Best motor goes to the exclusive 4" though... with the 5" not too far behind. Not sure why the 7" doesn't seem as nice as the smaller drivers... and I've measured 3 of them. There's a bunch of other little ones mbq's, rainbows, etc. as well.


hmm... i've wanted to send you some of the 5.5" mids from the aura mobile reference set to see how they stack up? it's one of the few poly cones i've really liked and i'm sure te motor can compete with the best. i'll try to get around to it.


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## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

npdang said:


> I have to disagree.
> 
> 1. The Seas Excel in many respects outperforms the MBQ qsd 4". At least objectively with regards to distortion performance, cone materials, etc. Subjectively, I don't doubt that there are people that find the two drivers to be of comparable performance.


honestly, as far as measurements, I am not surprised. But, there are certain measurements that I do not lay much weight on for car audio. 

But, like you mentioned, subjectively, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in a car, especially driving down the highway. 

So, in that sense, I'll take the infinitly easier to mount qsd driver. 

That lil bugger can be fit just about anywhere. It's easier to mount then alot of large format tweeters.


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

agentk98 said:


> Oh wow. Really? Those were LPGs!? Ok, That makes me glad getting the textile neos! The XR tweets were a bit too bright for my tastes.
> I can also say the CA18RNX kicks better than the Kurt Mueller poly cone.
> 
> So yeah, Npdang, please make a comparison! I'd love to see some numbers since I for one also started in car audio with the highly marketed, overly priced brands.


They are very similar in design and sound, I've heard both. Perhaps a bit different motor design? The LPG seems a bit smoother, but it could also have been the implementation.

I wouldn't say the CA18RNX get's its "better kick" from the cone design as it does from the much better motor design. It has a lot more linear excursion than does the XR mid.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I have some eD mids laying around that I'd be more than happy to send to Npdang. I'm curious to see where they fit in the pecking order.


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## TBDAugs (Apr 3, 2007)

This DIYMobileaudio forum has taught me that it's not just the driver that's important, but the importance of engineering the enclosure it's in, engineering the space it's in, and engineering the audio envelope to remediate the space it's in.

Maybe the intent was to land a man on the moon (use home speakers in a car) but the journey to get there spins off a bunch of things that a good DIY'er with a few tools can use to improve their sound environment.

Maybe the original intent was a web space about using BOUGHT home speaker driver's into the car, but why complain if it does so much to help users improve, ultimately, their sound environment?

What I like about this space is the regulars know their **** about audio and have the engineering tools to prove it and share it without ad hominem's to those of us less skilled.

Great forum. Lot's of facts, less attitude. "naught my endure but mutability"

Shellyaugs


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## HCCA (Apr 6, 2007)

How about testing this one? 
http://criticalmassaudio.com/catalog/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5


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## iyamwutiam (Nov 20, 2006)

As someone pointed out - Lotus Reference gets a lot of play around this forum - and is NOT DIY - in any sense of the word. 

Although Backwoods may be correct that the QSD is easier to install and make sound good - I think any driver will sound better with all the techniques discussed on ths and other forums.

Very few people are DIYing Headunits or amps (except Zuki) -even xovers. That only leaves speakers. It is a valid point- I mean - if a ready made car comp set (Like say the Pioneer) can sound real good - (not as great as Rainbow reference -etc but real real good) - with minimal installation issues -I don't see why car comp sets are not included. 

Many times - particularly with Focal and Seas they are basically their top of the line home drivers with a few mods.
Also - at some of the prices shelled out for these sets - it's slitting hairs.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

I think that the 6.5" from the PRS 720 set would be in the top 5 or so!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

forty5cal1911 said:


> I would be perfectly willing to submit a nominal donation for the time and effort on npdangs part. Honestly I would love to see how the Diamonds, Dyns, Morels, and Focals etc. fare against the Seas, HATs, Scan-Speak, Daytons, etc.


Me too! $10-$20 is a cheap way to get a better idea of how these OEM drivers compare to even the high end Mass Market pieces. Could this comparison materialize?


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## Moore Excess (Jul 21, 2007)

If there is a true test done with in specific parameters( even if that is just plain enjoyment to listen to ) I would have some items to submit.

I remember Macrom quite well by the way  and we have come a long long way from years ago.
PM me with your details.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

I would love to see this happen, and if needed/desired I can submit my Alpine SPX-117A mids once my ER18RNXs come in. 
I'd love to see the 117A, 177R and 177ref/pro compared against the DIY stuff.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

HEy. A good speaker is a good speaker. Regardless if it's marketed towards Car Audio or meant as a raw driver to be used for Home Audio.

I don't subscribed to the notion that *YOU MUST USE A DRIVER FROM THIS LIST and NOT THIS LIST!* 

Now SEAS car specific drivers are accepted because they offer drivers that many on this board use. RAinbow is also accepted. They make good speakers so they shouldn't be shrugged off. 

Now did I purchase several pairs of speakers that many on this board use? Yes. I want good drivers and if that means letting go of the speakers I've chosen in the past then I will.

When I look in the install section and see pictures of someone doing all the work on their vehicle, whatever it might entail, *THATS* what DIY means to me.

I have a MB Quart QSC 216 component set to donate if this test is still being considered.


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## tard (Jul 13, 2006)

i have some mid bass drivers i might be able to send. but i would only be willing IF they get a musical audition as well. for me, how well it walks the walk (dynamically on music) is more important than how well it talks the talk (spec test measurements). i have to dig around and see what all i have left. i know i have dyn mw 170's and DD W6.5LT's.


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## usmcsoldriver (Aug 13, 2007)

I'll donate my Dyn MW160's for this test.


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## hessdawg (Feb 20, 2007)

I'll donate a pair of my oem ID drivers


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## $NotEnough$ (Aug 19, 2007)

GlasSman said:


> HEy. A good speaker is a good speaker. Regardless if it's marketed towards Car Audio or meant as a raw driver to be used for Home Audio.
> 
> I don't subscribed to the notion that *YOU MUST USE A DRIVER FROM THIS LIST and NOT THIS LIST!*
> 
> ...



Exactly! Well said! DIY means Do It Yourself. If it sounds good, it sounds good, regardless of what it says on the box it came in.


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

I have a set of Diamond D6 non-hex drivers I could donate. Or, I could remove the newly broken in CDT M6 mids I just put in and re-install the diamonds for a stint to have the CDT ones tested.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Any progression on this topic?

Lets get this one moving.


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## skydeaner (Mar 25, 2006)

Foglght said:


> I have a set of Diamond D6 non-hex drivers I could donate. Or, I could remove the newly broken in CDT M6 mids I just put in and re-install the diamonds for a stint to have the CDT ones tested.


I would like to see the both in the testing  

I have nothing to offer as i am broke and only have some cheap old school sony ES comps right now, but I will be an avid reader of this thread and hope it goes somewhere.


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## Rockin'Z28 (Sep 26, 2007)

HondAudio said:


> A *real* DIY-er would BUILD his own speakers before installing them!


A REAL DIY-er would mine his own ore, smelt his own iron, make the steel for the baskets, cut down the trees and pound them into fibers for the cones, mine some copper ore for the voice coil, and dig his own oil well to create the plastic parts. 

At least that's what I did...


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

Yeah...when is this supposed to start? I just need to know where to send the speaker.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

legend94 said:


> LMAO



Why rag on CA.com? I visit there every now and then just for ****s and giggles. So they have quite a following of young and inexperienced dudes. They also have some respected names amoung their ranks too.

Ge0


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## calbert04 (Nov 18, 2007)

i would love a "big name" vs "diy" shootout as i am much more knowledgeable of big name car audio brands and would like to see these home speakers in comparison.


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## Hispls (Mar 12, 2008)

I have Kicker RMB 6's to loan to the cause.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Hispls said:


> I have Kicker RMB 6's to loan to the cause.


Dude this thread was started over a year ago, and has been dead for 5 months. BAD!


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't know why it died.


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## Hispls (Mar 12, 2008)

I don't know how I found this thread? Sorry for beating a dead horse.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

And...you've gone through the Review forum section?


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## nickpapa (Oct 21, 2008)

Beau said:


> Car Audio Forum - CarAudio.com


lol


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

havok20222 said:


> Dude this thread was started over a year ago, and has been dead for 5 months. BAD!


While I agree with what you said ...if he DIDN'T post to this thread someone would have told him that he should have *"searched first"* ...and linked back to this thread. 

>^..^<


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

Old threads with polls get bumped back to the top when somebody votes, they don't even need an actual reply to get resurrected.


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## Audiopile (Sep 11, 2009)

I could donate my Rainbow W165 Vanadium Kicks


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

This "unconclused" thread is in fact very intersting. After more than two years, a shotdown has to be done! 
My personal opinion is that mids/midbass is where a difference between car specific and raw drivers "may" have a difference. Midranges and home audio tweeters have, without doubt, his place in car audio installs.


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## greeyman (Sep 12, 2009)

i know i am really stupid and all that wrong forum to post and all that but i really have an important question that maybe one of you very smart audiophiles can awnswer. so here it goes.
I just got a memphis 15 inch woofer have no idea about it cant find anything about it searched high and low and came up with nothing.
it is a mclass dvc no idea about ohms. have two rolls of foam for the surround and has refrence series like m logo but smaller with chrome around it like diamond plate. 
any help on the specs of this sub would be very much appreciated. 
thank you so much


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

A second Vote for Hertz Mille ML1600's


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

egoxrt said:


> I could donate my Rainbow W165 Vanadium Kicks


Great

You are going to have to mail them back to 2007 - 03-19-2007 , when NP owned this forum and did testing


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## jaybo666 (Nov 29, 2009)

i like the JL 650


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## gitmobass (Nov 7, 2009)

I voted. Just to keep this epic thread up. Lol


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## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

I just voted...so where is the shootout? Or can anyone point me to one...been using the search....but cant find one..


Edit : Sorry I just found here by npdang...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-subjective-comparison-popular-7-drivers.html


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

thadman said:


> Although, I dont believe a shoot-out of mass produced drivers is really that beneficial to our community (we all focus on DIY drivers and use them in our installs, if we're choosing driver "X" over driver "Y" what difference does it make when compared to car audio drivers? Shouldn't we focus on the attributes of the specific drivers we'll be using in our installs and compare them to the other drivers that we may consider using?) I would like to have that claim proven/debunked as I find it hard to believe. What aspects of performance are you comparing? (non-linear distortion? linear distortion? off-axis response?)


So you're saying this forum will believe that a $45 6.5" mid from parts express, with the right placement and install, the right power and dsp control, paired with the right $25 tweeter from madisound, in the hands of some one who knows what they're doing, can sound better than a pair of $ 1000 dyn's or morels? Mind you I love morels........sacrilege mon dieu.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Not only is what they're saying, it's true.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Not only is what they're saying, it's true.


Sure, I know that. Largely cause I kinda know the value of tuning . The comment was tongue in cheek. Try telling someone who's spent $2,000 on a pair of components that his sound just got beat by a $400 set of diy drivers....:surprised:


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## FlexnInLa (Oct 4, 2010)

This forum needs a post that says something like these are the top 10 tweeters, these are the top 10 mids. I don't care what name is stamped on them. I'm going to be using ID horns and ID midranges but I'm still on a DIY forum. Is buying from ID any different than buying raw drivers? I got advice from the PRESIDENT of the freaking company. That sold me on ID right there for my front stage. Is my sub stage going to be ID? NOPE. 

Even better would be top 10 tweeters and mids broken down into price categories... price no object, I have money, and I'm pretty broke but willing to save for car audio stuff.

What makes something like this difficult is the fact the most of us are looking for different things from our front stage. I want something loud enough to keep up with a sub stage that most people here would consider retarded. Other people seem to find plenty of bass from a 6.5" speaker. I listen to hip hop and 90's alternative music for the most part... I'm also a bass player. I'm very used to standing in front of an Ampeg 8x10 cabinet on stage. So probably ignore me, I'm an idiot. I tried to get a speaker cabinet guru to design an off the wall esoteric folded horn something or other for some 8" subs and he thought I was retarded when I mentioned 1200 watts. I wonder what 40kw would have made him think...

So really, you'd have to break things down into a SQ category and an SPL category wouldn't you? Actually I hope not, I'm thinking my front stage is going to have some reall good SQ considering the money I'm spending on it.

Just my opinion. Did that post make any sense?


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## FlexnInLa (Oct 4, 2010)

sqnut said:


> So you're saying this forum will believe that a $45 6.5" mid from parts express, with the right placement and install, the right power and dsp control, paired with the right $25 tweeter from madisound, in the hands of some one who knows what they're doing, can sound better than a pair of $ 1000 dyn's or morels? Mind you I love morels........sacrilege mon dieu.


I bet not only will the forum believe, but I could belive that. I am a firm believer that 90 percent of SQ or SPL is in the install, not the drivers.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

FlexnInLa said:


> *I firmly believe that 40% of SQ is about tuning, 30% is the placement of the drivers, another 15% is a basic clean install and 15% is about the equipment.*


Corrected a bit. Above holds true assuming that the equipment threshold is a touch above the xplod level.


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## FlexnInLa (Oct 4, 2010)

sqnut said:


> Corrected a bit. Above holds true assuming that the equipment threshold is a touch above the xplod level.


OK well we are on about the same page, you are at 85 percent, I'm at 90. Either way, you can have the best equipment in the world and sound terrible... or have some pretty bad equpment and sound half decent.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

I thought by install, you meant *just* install......lol


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Where in the letters *D I Y* does any mention of cost, economy or name brand come in? Seriously, I just don't get it! To me, the letters DIY in this heading connote a simple meaning: Do it Yourself (selecting, matching, installing or tuning without the help of a paid consultant/installer). 

I see people mention a DIY driver and I really want to stop and ask, what is that? Are there also DIY head units - changers - tuners - and what seperates them? If I use 10 brands of equipment and custom enclosures, but chose a component set from one maker that sounded great, isn't that still a DIY system? I guess it stems from the popularity of DIY home speakers... but this isn't DIY Mobile Speakers - its DIY Mobile Audio. Assembling a quality home system and adding some DIY home speakers is one thing - and assembling a DIYMA system is really something different. The car environment forces us to deal with many outside factors in order to respond to the noise floors and acoustics alone. A person who builds a system with 5 different brands of equipment, custom enclosures, and happens to select a single brand set of component speakers has still built a DIYMA system - haven't they?

Sorry for side tracking with this but I've been seeing people get jumped on for mentioning a popular brand and DIYMA in the same sentence, and I just don't get it. It doesn't encourage anything positive here that I can see. Couldn't find a FAQ with a better definition. Maybe a special section is in order for those who prefer discussing a more limited range of brands?

Less


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

sqnut said:


> Corrected a bit. Above holds true assuming that the equipment threshold is a touch above the xplod level.


Apparently you've never heard one of Sony's SQ cars. They are damn fine sounding cars. SQ really is more about install and tuning than the parts used and his original numbers were pretty spot on.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Your thoughts are certainly valid, but the reason DIY was chosen was because the point was that we weren't using pre-packaged components. We were DIY'ing our speaker sets. Mixing and matching tweeters, mids, and midbasses to get what we were after while getting the same drivers used in those pre-packaged sets but from the OEMs instead.



less said:


> Where in the letters *D I Y* does any mention of cost, economy or name brand come in? Seriously, I just don't get it! To me, the letters DIY in this heading connote a simple meaning: Do it Yourself (selecting, matching, installing or tuning without the help of a paid consultant/installer).
> 
> I see people mention a DIY driver and I really want to stop and ask, what is that? Are there also DIY head units - changers - tuners - and what seperates them? If I use 10 brands of equipment and custom enclosures, but chose a component set from one maker that sounded great, isn't that still a DIY system? I guess it stems from the popularity of DIY home speakers... but this isn't DIY Mobile Speakers - its DIY Mobile Audio. Assembling a quality home system and adding some DIY home speakers is one thing - and assembling a DIYMA system is really something different. The car environment forces us to deal with many outside factors in order to respond to the noise floors and acoustics alone. A person who builds a system with 5 different brands of equipment, custom enclosures, and happens to select a single brand set of component speakers has still built a DIYMA system - haven't they?
> 
> ...


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Apparently you've never heard one of Sony's SQ cars. They are damn fine sounding cars. SQ really is more about install and tuning than the parts used and his original numbers were pretty spot on.


1. Did the Sony car run xplod equipment? 

2. The numbers by the way are mine.

3. Tuning>equipment that is what I'm saying. 

Read before posting.


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## Heath (May 3, 2009)

Hertz ML1600 is the best mid bass on the market.


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## s4turn (Jun 17, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Apparently you've never heard one of Sony's SQ cars. They are damn fine sounding cars. SQ really is more about install and tuning than the parts used and his original numbers were pretty spot on.


I cant say that about the local show cars in New Zealand. havent heard many recently, in the last few years or so

but the ones I have heard IMO sound like rubbish.
they all look better than what they sound like



back with the orignal topic, I think a big midbass shoot out would be awesome.
would love to see how the DIY drivers stack up against some of the mainstream car audio drivers


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

sqnut said:


> 1. Did the Sony car run xplod equipment?


Yes. Remember that the first two years after Xplod was launched even the mobileES gear had Xplod badges.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

s4turn said:


> I cant say that about the local show cars in New Zealand. havent heard many recently, in the last few years or so
> 
> but the ones I have heard IMO sound like rubbish.
> they all look better than what they sound like
> ...


It depends on who built them and what they were building them for. The A4 with the XES gear was astounding, the first Focuses were damned good as well.


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## s4turn (Jun 17, 2009)

yeah, different country here 

it was some van/4wd, with heaps of subs/amps

the system was distorting so badly 
also some sports car, whether it was a Ferrari or some other car at a expo in NZ

I've never liked sony xplode equipment either

i think these cars I heard were set up more for show, as the Ferrari Im sure had multiple screens and speakers in the front

have heard a few local systems with Sony components/subs, and never liked those either


tbh. I think I was a little late to the proper car audio Scene in NZ, its pretty much dead now, no SQ Competitions, and SPL is very quiet

the cars that are built now, Im sure are mostly designed for show
even a lot of the car audio shops are closing down


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

just send em all to zaph and let him test em!!!
maybe pay and contribute to his time..that way we have a set of measurement that are comparable!


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## Askspot (May 22, 2009)

tnbubba said:


> just send em all to zaph and let him test em!!!
> maybe pay and contribute to his time..that way we have a set of measurement that are comparable!


It's been about 3.5 years since the original post so I'm sure it's a non issue for him now  just playin with ya! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

And it's been almost a year since tnbubba posted....methinks you're playing with yourself.


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## Askspot (May 22, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> And it's been almost a year since tnbubba posted....methinks you're playing with yourself.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why the heck was it at the top of my Que for unread posts? LOL WOW :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think I'm just bored at work and pressing too many buttons!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Even though this is old, I would like to see it happen.

Most likely someone voted on the poll and brought it back to the top.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

naw I'm busy building speakers n crossovers n testing stuff not much time to surf
doing some mdf vs bb n test on mdf sealers n such.. mostly home stuff...
setting up garage so i can get messurement down to 100 hz

too busy to play on here much


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