# JL vs Alpine Subs



## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

Hey everyone,

I mostly listen to dubstep, and I used to run an Alpine SWR-1243D before I blew it from clipping (total mistake on my part, I really miss it).

What I liked about it was that it would play bass, especially drops, with very good quality. The subs I've tried, both 15" subs, don't give me the same effects.

YouTube - ‪Kelis - Brave (Gemini Remix)‬‏

Take this song for example. The drop at 0:41 (if you have a good headset) was hairsplitting, because I could hear and feel the bass all the way from 0:41 to 0:52.

With the last two subs I've had borrowed, I could only HEAR from about 0:41 to 0:44, and then I could hear and feel the rest.

I know there's many factors involved, but I have a feeling that the variations in frequency response is what's making the Type R better, since it responds up to 400 Hz, where most subs (my last 2 15s included) go up to 200 Hz. That would mean that by midbass territory (say 150 Hz and below), their decibels would most likely be lower than the Type R's.

The Type R also has a 20mm Xmax, while the JBL I had only did 12mm, and the Audiopipe I currently have has about 15mm. 
Type R also handles 600 RMS and I was feeding it 500 RMS, the JBL handled 300 RMS if I remember correctly and I was giving it 300 RMS, and the Audiopipe handles 1000 RMS and I'm feeding it 500 RMS.

The box I used on the Type R was a small sealed box (made to spec), and the last two are prefabbed 15" boxes (I guess not everyone I know is as picky with their stuff as I am).


So DIYMA, what're your opinions? Should I go back to the Type R, or is there something comparable to it at its 130-150 mark? I was thinking something like a JL, but the Type R since superior in every way, hence the title.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

Anyone?


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## Wacky7 (Jul 7, 2011)

Syaoran said:


> Anyone?


Would be neat if I had the money to play around with but this is what i would do. I would go back with the two 12" R's and get 1" MDF board box built and get a 3"wide by 4"long small bass port tube and mout it below where the subwoofer is firing. Then would get some epoxy resin and pour 1" 1/2 thick on each corner of the box filling up the empty area making it look like a corner trim pice but stronger and having the box tilt over and making that resin sit flat between the corner of the MDF box for a complete level for the resin to hold on to the MDF corners and it does makes a sound barrier from the corner of the epoxy resin kinda like a cubiq ways like a tube box from the inside or you could cut out some corner wood pice either ways. Then would put some 1" foaming sheets and cut and made out for the back plating around the two 12" R's MDF back board for simi damping materials. Then you will be able to hit some deep lows notes feq and hz and able to hear some deep highs and high mids sounds are at for sound quality. Good luck on picking out the right sub and box.


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## alglez (Jun 6, 2011)

i like jl but what jl sub are you comparing it with the type R?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Wacky7 said:


> Would be neat if I had the money to play around with but this is what i would do. I would go back with the two 12" R's and get 1" MDF board box built and get a 3"wide by 4"long small bass port tube and mout it below where the subwoofer is firing. Then would get some epoxy resin and pour 1" 1/2 thick on each corner of the box filling up the empty area making it look like a corner trim pice but stronger and having the box tilt over and making that resin sit flat between the corner of the MDF box for a complete level for the resin to hold on to the MDF corners and it does makes a sound barrier from the corner of the epoxy resin kinda like a cubiq ways like a tube box from the inside or you could cut out some corner wood pice either ways. Then would put some 1" foaming sheets and cut and made out for the back plating around the two 12" R's MDF back board for simi damping materials. Then you will be able to hit some deep lows notes feq and hz and able to hear some deep highs and high mids sounds are at for sound quality. Good luck on picking out the right sub and box.


I'm speechless.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

alglez said:


> i like jl but what jl sub are you comparing it with the type R?


The only one that would be a fair comparison would be the W6V2... The W3, W1, and W0 are too weak and have such a low Xmax and are all SVC.

WHY should I consider a 300$ driver vs a 150$, when, in paper, the Type R is better?

@Wacky7: That sounds like a good idea.


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## alglez (Jun 6, 2011)

i had heard both and type r sounds really good but i really like the w6 it sounds just clear and loud


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

alglez said:


> i had heard both and type r sounds really good but i really like the w6 it sounds just clear and loud


My Type R sounded clear and loud, sealed. It was fast, responsive and precise, and had amazing lows for a sealed box.

It's all subjective when it comes to how good it sounds. Which is why I mentioned WHY should I choose the JL, when the Type R is so much better in paper, sounds good, and is less than half the price.


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## alglez (Jun 6, 2011)

its just how u like the brand or looks of the sub! for me i like jl audio the brand or any high end brand thats the only reason i buy their products. i know if i buy their products i will have the performance im looking for, but some ppl just like other products for the price and they like how they perform.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

xmax means nothing, other specs like vas, mms, fs, the Qs are more important. 
I got a wofer that only having 16mm of xmax but it can pound until I vommit....
Now the question is :
when you change sub, do you change the enclosure?
do you feed the sub(s) with enough power?Each sub need a proper enclosure built for them, not 1 enclosure = suitable for all......


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Syaoran said:


> My Type R sounded clear and loud, sealed. It was fast, responsive and precise, and had amazing lows for a sealed box.
> 
> It's all subjective when it comes to how good it sounds. Which is why I mentioned WHY should I choose the JL, when the Type R is so much better in paper, sounds good, and is less than half the price.


Paper doesn't show you distortion and linearity along with other things. Just the small signal parameters.


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

I've heard both....ended up with 2 JL10w6v2s sealed. Best setup I've owned...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

kyheng said:


> xmax means nothing, other specs like vas, mms, fs, the Qs are more important.
> I got a wofer that only having 16mm of xmax but it can pound until I vommit....
> Now the question is :
> when you change sub, do you change the enclosure?
> do you feed the sub(s) with enough power?Each sub need a proper enclosure built for them, not 1 enclosure = suitable for all......


I agree except for the xmax. Wouldn't that statement only be true if we're talking ported boxes? I run an IB setup and I've maximized cone area with as much as I can possibly fit (2 15s with rather large cones for a 15) but excursion is pretty important too.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Paper doesn't show you distortion and linearity along with other things. Just the small signal parameters.


Still doesn't answer my question as to why should I pay much more for a JL sub. Also, why should I pay 300$ for a sub with a foam surround?

I thought that was considered low quality.


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## fit_tuner (Aug 14, 2006)

Syaoran said:


> Still doesn't answer my question as to why should I pay much more for a JL sub. Also, why should I pay 300$ for a sub with a foam surround?
> 
> I thought that was considered low quality.


there were reasons given as to why the jl is more expensive, but it seems you've already had your mind made about which sub you want, which looks to be the type-r. Just get what you like and be happy with it, and thats all that matters.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Syaoran said:


> Still doesn't answer my question as to why should I pay much more for a JL sub. Also, why should I pay 300$ for a sub with a foam surround?
> 
> I thought that was considered low quality.


You're misguided. Do a search and learn about surrounds. 

I could care less what you get. Personally, I don't think the W6 is for you, you're much better off with the type R.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

fit_tuner said:


> *there were reasons given as to why the jl is more expensive,* but it seems you've already had your mind made about which sub you want, which looks to be the type-r. Just get what you like and be happy with it, and thats all that matters.


I DON'T have my mind set. I just don't like when people say X is better... because it's better!

I'm asking WHY is it better? At a glance, it doesn't LOOK better. What am I missing?

I just see fanboys, and not people experienced in car audio... Every time I see a topic where JL is discussed, it always ends up in all the fanboys chiming in saying JL is better.

I want to know WHY exactly something that DOESN'T look better at first glance, actually IS better... Is that too much to ask?

P.S. Quote to me ONE reason mentioned in this topic as to why the JL is more expensive, and I'll paypal you $5 dollars. All that was said was



> its just how u like the brand or looks of the sub! for me* i like jl audio the brand or any high end brand* thats the only reason i buy their products. i know if i buy their products i will have the performance im looking for, but some ppl just like other products for the price and they like how they perform.


If it's a name, or "high-end" brand, I should pay more for premiums of having equipment further promoting them, even if I'm paying more for something I could be paying less, or paying an amount in the range of something better?


TL;DR: I'm a skeptic, not a fanboy. I'm willing to buy anything that's WORTH buying. I want to get what I pay for, and not pay more, for less. I'm not looking to pay less, for more either. I know that's not how it works.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

cajunner said:


> the W7 was said to be the first subwoofer with a materials cost of 100 bucks, according to some advertising way back when.
> 
> the "foam" surround on the W6-W7 is likely more expensive than a competing surround made from rubber or santoprene.
> 
> ...


I'd get a W7 any day if I had the money to spend. We're talking W6, even though I'm aware that W6's are a scaled down W7.

That said, I'm pretty sure there's a justification on the $300-$500 price reduction of the W6 vs W7, so it leads me to believe the materials used in the W6 are not as high of a quality as the W7. Let's not get into that however.

Rubber in general is more durable than foam, especially when in motion. Rubber withstands temperature, dirt and humidity better than foam.

My target power range is anywhere in the 300-500w RMS spectrum (as the amps I have and the amps I'm getting will go as far as 500 RMS which is plenty for the daily driver purposes I have intended.

Obviously the W6 and Type R 12s have the same power handling capabilities. They'll be likely just as durable because I won't be running either to their limits, let alone past them like you're suggesting, and I never will. If I ever get a bigger amp, it's to run more subs, and not to overpower a single sub.

Not to bash, but being made in the U.S.A. doesn't tell me anything, aside that the manufacturing costs more therefore it'll be more expensive. Hand-made is whole different story (Audison).

Glad to hear you're a happy customer.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Syaoran said:


> Rubber in general is more durable than foam, especially when in motion. Rubber withstands temperature, dirt and humidity better than foam.


Nope, wrong. That might have been right 10 years ago but there is more than one type of foam. In fact, the opposite is true in some cases. Do some research.



Syaoran said:


> Not to bash, but being made in the U.S.A. doesn't tell me anything, aside that the manufacturing costs more therefore it'll be more expensive. Hand-made is whole different story (Audison).


Actually it does if you were to research and see how the machining is done and the tolerances they're allowed.

The answers are out there, all you have to do is search to find them. You'll see there's a_ slight_ difference in the technology that goes into a W6 vs a Type R. It's not all about just the cost of materials.

But again, if you think they're that close, get the cheaper sub.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Nope, wrong. That might have been right 10 years ago but there is more than one type of foam. In fact, the opposite is true in some cases. Do some research.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't really like your wordplay. How I understand it, you mix what you read... I never said that the difference between a Type R and a W6 was "all about just the cost of materials". In fact, I was talking about W6 and W7.

I THINK they're that close, but if I am wrong, then please correct me. I'm not stubborn, I'm skeptical. Don't confuse those two terms.

Alpine's surrround proved to be extremely sturdy to me. How sturdy is the JL's? I know there's a lot more factors into subwoofer durability than just surround sturdiness, but I wouldn't expect a "high-end" woofer would skimp out on the most exposed component of their machine. In fact, the opposite should be expected.


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## Wacky7 (Jul 7, 2011)

I likes JL too and they sould have been made better. but they are allready high$. But as in a W7 they got a thick butyl rubber mix with some kinda neoprene foam with some hardering they put into it. the new subs w7 are made to last longtime like from 25 to 30 yrs on the surround comparing the w6 I really don't know how long does the W6 last they do get dry up and crack in many yrs to come on the surrounding. I don't know if that true. It does look as 1/4 thick or little less on the surrounding. but it seam well made compare the w6 to be built better on excursion. But the down side about w7 is that they are using more wiring in the voice coil and it thinner wire at rated at 3 ohms and to me that weak. Bigger wiring in the voice coil and longer depth and more wiring for the w7 built style for the coil is what I like and more air flowing for it. But they didn't make it like that for the w7. I wish they add alum fins to keep it cools or heck why not throw in some heatpipes HSF. laugh. For the money you can always get rid of your R's and get JL's someday or the other way around sell the JL and get R's.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Syaoran said:


> I don't really like your wordplay. How I understand it, you mix what you read... I never said that the difference between a Type R and a W6 was "all about just the cost of materials". In fact, I was talking about W6 and W7.
> 
> I THINK they're that close, but if I am wrong, then please correct me. I'm not stubborn, I'm skeptical. Don't confuse those two terms.
> 
> Alpine's surrround proved to be extremely sturdy to me. How sturdy is the JL's? I know there's a lot more factors into subwoofer durability than just surround sturdiness, but I wouldn't expect a "high-end" woofer would skimp out on the most exposed component of their machine. In fact, the opposite should be expected.





Wacky7 said:


> I likes JL too and they sould have been made better. but they are allready high$. But as in a W7 they got a thick butyl rubber mix with some kinda neoprene foam with some hardering they put into it. the new subs w7 are made to last longtime like from 25 to 30 yrs on the surround comparing the w6 I really don't know how long does the W6 last they do get dry up and crack in many yrs to come on the surrounding. I don't know if that true. It does look as 1/4 thick or little less on the surrounding. but it seam well made compare the w6 to be built better on excursion. But the down side about w7 is that they are using more wiring in the voice coil and it thinner wire at rated at 3 ohms and to me that weak. Bigger wiring in the voice coil and longer depth and more wiring for the w7 built style for the coil is what I like and more air flowing for it. But they didn't make it like that for the w7. I wish they add alum fins to keep it cools or heck why not throw in some heatpipes HSF. laugh. For the money you can always get rid of your R's and get JL's someday or the other way around sell the JL and get R's.


I had a post with the patents and technologies of the W6 and W7, the surround materials and rubber vs foam but after these two posts I can see any facts will be overlooked for misguided opinions and speculation. That last post just blew my mind. Besides, if I can google it in 5 minutes, why can't you?


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## Wacky7 (Jul 7, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> I had a post with the patents and technologies of the W6 and W7, the surround materials and rubber vs foam but after these two posts I can see any facts will be overlooked for misguided opinions and speculation. That last post just blew my mind. Besides, if I can google it in 5 minutes, why can't you?


Oh sweet someone got google. thanks for that lol. ahh yes now I know alot about it now. who is going to keep a subwoofer for over 20 yrs? anyone? keeping it clean and wet making sure it doesn't dry up and a little underpowerd and never brun it up and built to last? But getting awesome sounds? I don't think JL going to come out with a new model W8? W9?


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

Quit being a ***** & just buy the cheap ass Type R & clang away. If you just want to bash JL for pricing their subs too high....start a thread doing that. What makes a 10w6 better than a Funky Pup??? You're not after knowledge.........you're trying to bash JL.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

rockytophigh said:


> Quit being a ***** & just buy the cheap ass Type R & clang away. If you just want to bash JL for pricing their subs too high....start a thread doing that. What makes a 10w6 better than a Funky Pup??? You're not after knowledge.........you're trying to bash JL.


So if I'm questioning JL's pricing, I'm bashing it and being a *****. Smart thinking. This is a post you could've avoided to not make yourself look like a fool, but I'd guess you'd rather have an extra post.

Do you not know how forums work? Why would I start ANOTHER THREAD when I already have one open WHERE THAT TOPIC CAN BE DISCUSSED. It's called spamming and I don't do that, unlike you. I respect forum moderators.




> Oh sweet someone got google. thanks for that lol. ahh yes now I know alot about it now. *who is going to keep a subwoofer for over 20 yrs? anyone? keeping it clean and wet making sure it doesn't dry up and a little underpowerd and never brun it up and built to last?* But getting awesome sounds? I don't think JL going to come out with a new model W8? W9?


I'm worried about the durability because the climate in my island is violent. It's always extremely hot, and sometimes it goes anywhere from 100 degrees down to 80 in a matter of an hour or less with heavy rain, out of the blue. Humidity is incredibly high as well, almost all the time.



> I had a post with the patents and technologies of the W6 and W7, the surround materials and rubber vs foam but after these two posts I can see any facts will be overlooked for misguided opinions and speculation. That last post just blew my mind. Besides, if I can google it in 5 minutes, why can't you?


I have the JL website bookmarked, so I can look up their info on their products. I question their subs' durability (specifically the W6, which is the only one that would make a fair comparison) because I've seen people with torn surrounds on their W6's. In fact, there's a post where a guy "suddenly hears a flapping noise" and finds his surround torn.

You could easily dismiss it by telling me "well get a refoam kit and that's it". I'm paying $300 minimum for this sub; why should I have to pay $100 more when it breaks by itself?


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## andy74 (Jul 6, 2011)

after reading all the blah blah blah my choice is jl audio thanks


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## alglez (Jun 6, 2011)

Dude it looks like u want the jl you know it's well made but u are looking for every little reason not to buy it. just buy it and enjoy it, you'll be really happy with the w6!


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## Morts (May 28, 2009)

My cheap J/L 12w3v3 sits in my car in Buffalo NY all year round and shows no signs of surround damage. The climate here is much more Violent than Puerto Rico. It has actually had condensation on it from when it goes for 15 to 50 in a day. Summers fluctuate from 60-90. Not saying anything but it has held up well in this type of climate.


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## slater (Nov 21, 2010)

Syaoran said:


> So if I'm questioning JL's pricing, I'm bashing it and being a *****. Smart thinking. This is a post you could've avoided to not make yourself look like a fool, but I'd guess you'd rather have an extra post.


it's called being a JL fanboy. your dealing with a lot of them on this topic. i'm not saying there product is bad or good, but what your getting for the money i would personally stay way from them. also instead of just comparing just two subs try to broaden your search.

for your next topic that you start try not putting in jl in it.  or this is always going to happen. . .


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

In addition to what cajunner said, I've owned mine for more than 7 years. They have "lived" in Bakersfield, Vegas, and Phoenix, basically some of the hottest places in the US regularly getting over 105 and sometimes 115.

The foam surrounds are perfect except for one where I didn't have the box bolted down when it was first put in and I got in a race in the GN and forgot about the box. It smashed so hard into the back of the car that it almost knocked out one of the taillights. One of the surrounds took some of the punishment and got a nick which has not grown at all since it happened in '05. 

I ran these subs in sealed, ported, bandpass, and eventually one of them infinite baffle. I ran it IB last, after 7 years of use and ran it well past xmax and it's still perfect. The suspension will take it to 25mm one way and still sound good. After that you're asking for trouble.

There are treatments that make the foam stand up to UV and weather in general. My IB15s use foam too and John over at Acoustic Elegance explains foam vs rubber well, the reasons why they use one over the other, the different types of foam, and the treatments that make them last as long or even longer than rubber. Resonance and noise were some of the reasons stated as well.

I would bet any foam issue with the W6 is from physical contact and abuse. You're never going to have to worry about the surrounds unless you physically hit them with something and that would go for rubber too. This seems to be an issue that you're inventing.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

slater said:


> it's called being a JL fanboy. your dealing with a lot of them on this topic. i'm not saying there product is bad or good, but what your getting for the money i would personally stay way from them. also instead of just comparing just two subs try to broaden your search.
> 
> for your next topic that you start try not putting in jl in it.  or this is always going to happen. . .


If you can't afford them, don't hate them. Owning these subs, I have had to deal with people like you the whole time too. People love to hate JL and use price as the reason. After owning them for 7 years, I think I'm qualified to say they're worth every penny.


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## slater (Nov 21, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> If you can't afford them, don't hate them. Owning these subs, I have had to deal with people like you the whole time too. People love to hate JL and use price as the reason. After owning them for 7 years, I think I'm qualified to say they're worth every penny.


i wasn't dissing on jl audio build quality ever just to make it clear, but for the price you pay for jl audio. you could go with Morel, Hertz, and ID just to name a few and be better off. it is my opinion and i just don't like wasting money when i can get something better for the same price.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

slater said:


> i wasn't dissing on jl audio build quality ever just to make it clear, but for the price you pay for jl audio. you could go with Morel, Hertz, and ID just to name a few and be better off. it is my opinion and i just don't like wasting money when i can get something better for the same price.


And it's an assumption and a bad one at that that you're getting something "better" for less money. Separate your opinion from fact.


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## slater (Nov 21, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> And it's an assumption and a bad one at that that you're getting something "better" for less money. Separate your opinion from fact.


i maybe wrong in interpreting this, but please correct me if im wrong  but what your saying is that jl audio is the best bang for your buck or/and the best out there in your opinion??


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## Morts (May 28, 2009)

This thread needs to be put to rest its a joke. Even me reading this knows he never said J/L is the best out there or even the best bang for the buck. Are J/L the best out there absolutely not, Are J/L the Best Bang For the Buck absolutely not. Are J/L a very nice made product that you will pay a bit to have YES!!! 

If you are after the Best Bang For your Buck look in the Hot Deals section

If you are looking for the absolute best out there remortgage your house.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

My suggestion would be ..... Listen to them, decide for yourself.

By asking, you encourage opinions, and you need to take them as such.
Both are proven companies that make solid products.
I'm assuming you have had experience with the Alpines, find somebody with a setup similar to what you want to run with jl's, And take a critical listen.

Fanboys or haters are taken out of the equation on both sides then.

In my opinion, The w6 ranks as one of the better sq subs, and many will attest to that. The new typeR's have quite the buzz about them now, and could also become a very well respected sub. 
Listen... Decide for yourself, both are nice...and you'll be happy because your purchase was based of Your opinion.


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

i paid $320 shipped brand new for my W6v2. easy to find online for that price. I have owned the L7,infinity, W3/W1, RF oldschool, Oldschool kicker solo's, MTX and even some cheap ass Jensons.
Handsdown, i have no bias, but i really like the W6, especially in ported. it pounds for just having one sub.

That being said, it seems to me most subs in general do a satisfying job in the right box. JL works well in some pretty small boxes, i'm sure others out there do too. HSU or Morel 12 would be other excellent choices i'd pick before the Alpine but most all are decent subs anymore.

The only problem with OP i see here is he keeps looking at paper specs, surrounds and xmax...don't look at that crap. Go to a shop and audition some if you can. But if Alpine rocked your nuts then go back with them.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

SoulFly said:


> i paid $320 shipped brand new for my W6v2. easy to find online for that price. I have owned the L7,infinity, W3/W1, RF oldschool, Oldschool kicker solo's, MTX and even some cheap ass Jensons.
> Handsdown, i have no bias, but i really like the W6, especially in ported. it pounds for just having one sub.
> 
> That being said, it seems to me most subs in general do a satisfying job in the right box. JL works well in some pretty small boxes, i'm sure others out there do too. HSU or Morel 12 would be other excellent choices i'd pick before the Alpine but most all are decent subs anymore.
> ...


I'm in a similar situation as you are but with the Alpine sub, instead of a JL. I've listened to cheaper subs, and even some that cost the same or more and I still prefer the Type R 12 over them. I've never had the chance to listen to a W6 and I don't think I will unless I meet someone that owns one and I can listen to it in his/her car. Shops here don't carry anything past rockford fosgate. Best buy carries Alpine Type R as their most expensive sub (that I saw last time I went).

I'm looking at paper specs because for the reason stated just now I can't do anything else except read opinions, reviews, and spec sheets.

Right now all I'm seeing is fanboys telling me that the JL is "omgawesmsuperSQsub, if you can't afford it YOU'RE CHEAP AND A WHINING *****" (even though I never said I COULDN'T afford it, I'm just not going to spend more money on something I could get for less (in the case that it's just as good as the type R, or less than that) nor am I going to spend the money it costs when I could get something BETTER for the same price (like many other favorites in the forum, such as Dayton, Morel, Hertz, or Image Dynamics)).

Has anyone here actually heard BOTH in small sealed boxes built to each sub's smallest box internal volume? By both I mean the 1243/1223 and not the 1222/1242 which is the previous gen of the Type R, as well as the W6V2?


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

Syaoran said:


> I'm in a similar situation as you are but with the Alpine sub, instead of a JL. I've listened to cheaper subs, and even some that cost the same or more and I still prefer the Type R 12 over them. I've never had the chance to listen to a W6 and I don't think I will unless I meet someone that owns one and I can listen to it in his/her car. Shops here don't carry anything past rockford fosgate. Best buy carries Alpine Type R as their most expensive sub (that I saw last time I went).
> 
> I'm looking at paper specs because for the reason stated just now I can't do anything else except read opinions, reviews, and spec sheets.
> 
> ...



Costs i don't believe is related to sound. Paper cone speakers can be very accurate, just look how generic most Home theater subs look.
HSU subs come to mind, apparently very accurate, loud and only $139 according to this site. Probably more to do with quality of parts, how its designed and put together. I "read" that JL has one of the best techniques for mounting baskets or some such, true or not i dunno but i believe expensive subs are definitely more durable and can usually handle a lot more power than rated without harm.
Also i'm sure where its made has a big impact, how much is by hand...etc. I'm sure JL spent a crap ton of money years ago developing the software, techniques and testing..etc of the W7. Its like they made sure its the most optimal sub that can be made.."optimal" not "best" and decided there is nothing more they can upgrade at this time.
Seemed to me like everyone else making SQ subs kinda followed from JL's blueprint more or less and put their own spins into it

i push 1200 watts in my W6 in ported at 34hz for i'd guess about a year now, thats twice the power its rated and handles it beutifully, even when the temps in my trunk get 130F degrees sitting in the sun.

I heard the Type R's in a demo room, ported box but not in a car, so nothing i can really note.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

What are the alpines lacking that has you looking elsewhere?

You've stated you like them, have listened to several other subs and still prefer the alpines, so what's missing?

I guess I don't understand why your wanting something else, if your satisfied with the typeR...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

slater said:


> i maybe wrong in interpreting this, but please correct me if im wrong  but what your saying is that jl audio is the best bang for your buck or/and the best out there in your opinion??


It's not the best sub and not the best bang for the buck in every category. It is very durable, will take much more than rated power and sound very good doing it. There are cheaper subs that might sound better, cheaper subs that might get louder but I haven't seen any that combine the SQ, SPL, and durability into one package. Their customer service is second to none also. I get a little defensive because every time the JL name comes up people have to talk bad when it's one of the best overall subs out there. I'm starting to get the same thing when it comes to my Dyns. If I came across the wrong way I apologize but I get this all the time.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

SoulFly said:


> Costs i don't believe is related to sound. Paper cone speakers can be very accurate, just look how generic most Home theater subs look.
> HSU subs come to mind, apparently very accurate, loud and only $139 according to this site. Probably more to do with quality of parts, how its designed and put together. I "read" that JL has one of the best techniques for mounting baskets or some such, true or not i dunno but i believe expensive subs are definitely more durable and can usually handle a lot more power than rated without harm.
> Also i'm sure where its made has a big impact, how much is by hand...etc. I'm sure JL spent a crap ton of money years ago developing the software, techniques and testing..etc of the W7. Its like they made sure its the most optimal sub that can be made.."optimal" not "best" and decided there is nothing more they can upgrade at this time.
> Seemed to me like everyone else making SQ subs kinda followed from JL's blueprint more or less and put their own spins into it
> ...


That's something I mentioned before, when BuickGN mentioned U.S.A-made... that usually tells me nothing, except that the manufacturing will cost more and that such an increase is going to reflect in my purchase price. Babble about being manufactured in USA with strict procedures, implying that the same can't be done manufactured in third-world countries is a horrible misconception, because machines do the manufacturing, not people.(which is why I mentioned hand-made product companies like Audison, which is A WHOLE OTHER STORY). Third-world country employees are cheaper per hour, so any employees that have to be hired in order to aid the machines could be hired for less, but in essence, the sub will be built to the same standards...

Yeah I've read a lot about the JL W7 series, and it's obviously expensive for a reason. Its build quality is top notch and a lot of R&D was put into the building of the sub (all their claims, not my opinion). After reading the description of their W7 series you should have a very good idea that you're going to spend a ton on them, which ends up being true.

However, to each their own, and if somebody wants to spend the money on a W7, be my guest, but it's not what I'm looking for, since I'm not looking to compete, but rather to have an enjoyable drive wherever I go.

Well the Type R isn't exactly a SQ sub, it's obviously built for SPL, but it does sound damn good. It sounds worlds apart when put against SPL subs of equal or lower caliber, sometimes even of higher caliber. As I've said, every sub I've heard (15", Dual 12", 10", 6.5") no matter what the brand or combination (aside from JL, Polk, or any other "high-end" company, since nobody works those here that I know of yet), The 1243D has got to be the best-sounding sub I've listened to. That doesn't stop me from looking for something BETTER, because I KNOW there is something better.

My point essentially is if I should really go all the way to spend twice, or triple as much for something that will sound marginally better. Unless it's going to be sounding as much better as its price difference, then I don't think it's economically prudent to spend the extra dollar on it, when I could be using that to save up for something else, like for example the JL 900/5 I'm interested in for simplicity and build-quality.

I find it funny that I've always read (everywhere but here) that the best combination is a JL amp with an Alpine sub. Perhaps it's not a fair comparison as in essence JL is SQ while Alpine is SPL, and that's like comparing a 1" tweeter vs a 3" midrange... JL will sound better, but not as loud, while Alpine will sound louder, but not as good, using each other's perks as a threshold for comparison.

I've got to listen to a W6 definitely, in a car, in a sealed box. Output-wise, I know sealed is better for my intended use, as I plan on skimping out on midbass as it's too much installation hassle for what I need. I'm not going to ever install 8" midbass, I'm going with 6.5" midbass. By skimping out I mean that generally I won't get more midbass response from the latter than the former. 

I'm looking to do a 2-way component front stage with a sub that can handle anywhere from around 125Hz down to 30Hz with authority, and I believe the Type R does that. I also want to do small, sealed box to save trunk space because I use it often. Also looking for not-so-much power handling as I don't want to strain my electrical system, which is why I plan to get an XD 5 channel or an HD 5 channel, because at most they pull 700/900 w RMS respectively, and my small 90 amp alternator can handle them pretty good with the help of my battery.

I'm looking to probably cross over my 6.5" at 100-125 Hz (if it can play lower, that's great because that means I'll get a flatter response from beginning to end of my crossover frequencies) and my tweeters at 3 kHz (I'm likely going soft dome, even though Vifa XT25 looks good and most people agree that it sounds good on-axis. My sail panels can be done to offer on-axis response with swiveling cups, all the better for the simplicity of my install. The JL small amps will be great for under-the-seats placement, with only a relatively short (10' vs 18-19' in the trunk) run of power wire into the cabin, and a relatively long (8-10') run of speaker wire into my single sealed sub in the trunk. It'll also mean shorter runs of speaker wire into my speakers (most likely going passive in the meantime, and when I can get myself a processor I'll do active, because that I know of the JL amps don't do TA or any processing, they just do what I need for active with crossovers and great efficiency with great sound. *However, it's a pity that the XD has bandpass XO while the HD doesn't... unless I read wrong.*)

Have fun reading!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

When you get into the higher end stuff, spending double the money might get you a 10% better product. It's a personal choice if it's worth it to you. Is a 12W6 twice as good as a Type R, I highly doubt it.

I have a very strong opinion on made in the USA vs made in China. I've been in the racing world since '94 and I've seen the effect the China crap has had on quality. It's very normal for the first batch of product you to be great and made to spec. Then they start taking shortcuts to save themselves money on materials and labor. I've seen an Eagle crank forged in China sitting on it's end on the floor get knocked over and break in half. It would've broken the second the starter was engaged if the problem had not been found beforehand. I've seen them redesign and reduce the amount of material from brake rotors causing massive warping without notifying the company and this was a big name company that I'm sure everyone on here has heard of. The amount of machine work required on crankshafts, cams, and various other parts can be tripled because the casting or forging is so off when it arrives. I've seen them change the grade of steel and the resulting failures. Nothing that comes out of China is as consistent as it would be over here and you never know when they're going to decide to just change a design because they feel like it. Look at the trouble John over at Acoustic Elegance has had because of the China parts. It's nearly bankrupted his company. You can bury your head in the sand but I've seen the China crap and it's lack of QC. 

It's not just the USA either, knowing my Dyns were built in Denmark was a selling point. It's not just about the initial purchase price, it's how the product is going to perform for years to come. If I have to pay more for a reliable product, that's fine.

Buying a JL sub, you know they're going to last a very long time. Like I said, 7 years and 180,000 miles worth of beatings in a harsh climate and the only reason I'm selling mine is because I went IB and I need the cone area of a pair of 15s. If you buy it and like it, chances are you will never have to buy another due to failure.


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## Jlchevy66 (May 6, 2011)

I love my 13w7 in my single cab truck. I bought it with a small tear in the surround, repaired it with a silicon adhesive and I've been abusing it ever since with zero issues. Surround feels bullet proof, I'm sure my black painted cab gets upward of 130 degrees sitting in the southern sun every day. I bought my 13w7 used, and love every bit of it. I'm no pro, and def no brand name nazi. My 10 cents. 

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## slater (Nov 21, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> It's not the best sub and not the best bang for the buck in every category. It is very durable, will take much more than rated power and sound very good doing it. There are cheaper subs that might sound better, cheaper subs that might get louder but I haven't seen any that combine the SQ, SPL, and durability into one package. Their customer service is second to none also. I get a little defensive because every time the JL name comes up people have to talk bad when it's one of the best overall subs out there. I'm starting to get the same thing when it comes to my Dyns. If I came across the wrong way I apologize but I get this all the time.


lol to me your earlier comments sounded like a jl fanboy and that just drives me up a wall. where i live everyone thinks it's the best product hands down because the brand is damn good at marketing themselves. also that no other product comes even close to it. and i've heard dyns front stage before can recall what he was exactly running but it sounded good. but never heard there subs so i cant comment on that. im surprised you get crap over those.  i almost went with dyns, but it was a toss up with hat, id, rainbow. and i decided to go with hat at the end because there support. sorry for the comment that was off topic for the most part. i had to get it off my chest.


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

slater said:


> lol to me your earlier comments sounded like a jl fanboy and that just drives me up a wall. where i live everyone thinks it's the best product hands down because the brand is damn good at marketing themselves. also that no other product comes even close to it. and i've heard dyns front stage before can recall what he was exactly running but it sounded good. but never heard there subs so i cant comment on that. im surprised you get crap over those.  i almost went with dyns, but it was a toss up with hat, id, rainbow. and i decided to go with hat at the end because there support. sorry for the comment that was off topic for the most part. i had to get it off my chest.


Many times people like JL because they have been involved with car audio since the 1980s, and remember the original W series. My first subs in 1986 were Alpines and were....eh, ok. Next car had 4 JL 10 w6 setup isobaric (now there's a word you don't hear much anymore!!) and it was beautiful bass. In years since, I've made the mistake of jumping on a few forum nuts....& putting too much value in the boner of the month sub. Eventually I just went back to JL. It will cost me a lot less time and effort being a JL fanboi....rather than being a forum boner fanboi. 

That being said....I don't care much for their 13wt5. I don't care for their comps....& I don't have an opinion on their amps.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I have to agree with BuickGN about quality vs country. Now, its not that china and other third world countries CAN'T build quality parts. Its just that there usually not paid to build quality parts. And if your sending your manufacturing over there to be cheap, then the company thats doing the parts over there probably isnt using state of the art equipment, that is correctly calibrated, and within tight tolerances. I'm reminded of the OBX knock off of the Quaife Limited Slip Diff for the SRT-4. The actual Quaife is garenteed for life, and only one or 2 have ever broken (400+ hp road race applications, with very large sticky tires, they broke when the inside wheel lifted, and came down spinning). They also bolt right in, with the only work needed being shimming the bearings, just like you would have to do on a new stock diff. The Quaife is made in England, if I remember right. Now the OBX on the other hand, is made in china. Its less than half the price of the Quaife. However, several of them have broken, and there is no lifetime warranty. On top of that, they dont fit right out of the box. In fact, almost every post ever made about the OBX diff on a neon forum is asking about how much machining is nessesary to make it fit. Thats right, the machines that make the diff arent making them with close enough tolerances to fit in the transmission.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I have to agree with BuickGN about quality vs country. Now, its not that china and other third world countries CAN'T build quality parts. Its just that there usually not paid to build quality parts. And if your sending your manufacturing over there to be cheap, then the company thats doing the parts over there probably isnt using state of the art equipment, that is correctly calibrated, and within tight tolerances. I'm reminded of the OBX knock off of the Quaife Limited Slip Diff for the SRT-4. The actual Quaife is garenteed for life, and only one or 2 have ever broken (400+ hp road race applications, with very large sticky tires, they broke when the inside wheel lifted, and came down spinning). They also bolt right in, with the only work needed being shimming the bearings, just like you would have to do on a new stock diff. The Quaife is made in England, if I remember right. Now the OBX on the other hand, is made in china. Its less than half the price of the Quaife. However, several of them have broken, and there is no lifetime warranty. On top of that, they dont fit right out of the box. In fact, almost every post ever made about the OBX diff on a neon forum is asking about how much machining is nessesary to make it fit. Thats right, the machines that make the diff arent making them with close enough tolerances to fit in the transmission.


I can see your point and where you're coming from.

Mine is that if e.g. Alpine were to build its subs in China (not sure if it does), and they use X technology when doing so, their manufacturer is going to use whatever is necessary to build the sub with X technology.

So if Alpine claims to use their pending-patent HAMR surround, their "oversized-aluminum voice coil", their special cooling system, then no matter where it's manufactured the end result is going to be the same.

Obviously by buying a geniune Alpine product you will get what Alpine intended you to get.

In the case of the LSD in the SRT-4, a "replica" of the original was produced, and Alpine doesn't sell "replicas" nor have I ever seen one. OBX and Quaife aren't the same brand either. So you can't say that because OBX was manufactured in China, and Quaife in England, that the China manufacturing is going to be subpar vs. the England one, just because the Quaife is a better quality product vs. the lower quality OBX. That is a case of original vs. replacement/replica, and you're going to get less if you pay less for something that has the same intended use as its higher-quality counterpart.

InB4JLisbetterthanAlpinebecauseit'sthesamecaseasOBXvs.Quaife.


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## Evil Ryu (May 25, 2011)

Jlchevy66 said:


> I love my 13w7 in my single cab truck. I bought it with a small tear in the surround, repaired it with a silicon adhesive and I've been abusing it ever since with zero issues. Surround feels bullet proof, I'm sure my black painted cab gets upward of 130 degrees sitting in the southern sun every day. I bought my 13w7 used, and love every bit of it. I'm no pro, and def no brand name nazi. My 10 cents.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


the w7's are GREAT!

10w7 was my favorite SQL setup in a ported box powered by a 500/1.

did not like it sealed, though as it was just SQ with barely any SPL.

liked it better than my 12" re xxx '05 sub ported powered by a hifonics 1600wrms @ 1ohm. that setup had lots of spl, but lacked the "SQ/SQL" i got with my 10w7 ported.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Syaoran said:


> So DIYMA, what're your opinions? Should I go back to the Type R, or is there something comparable to it at its 130-150 mark? I was thinking something like a JL, but the Type R since superior in every way, hence the title.


I think Alpine Type R has hit some kind of previously unknown price sweet spot with this sub because so many people look for the best sub in "130-150 mark". It may well be possible it's one of the best for that price for your application. JL Audio subwoofers like w6 or w7 series may be great, but they're a lot more expensive. However, should you consider subs in the 150-250 price range, and not only those made by JL or Alpine, then that opens up a lot of possibilities, such as:

Dayton Reference HO 12, the DVC version, price online from Parts-express: about $155. It probably needs a stronger amp than Type-R, but according to WinISD will hit deep bass notes even louder than Type-R. This one is considered to be one of the more hardcore SQ subs and it will hit the higher bass notes better than Alpine Type R (just because Type-R can play mid-bass notes, it's not necessarily doing it distortion-free).

RE Audio SEX12: Deep bass extension looks like that of Alpine Type-R, but it's a considered to have above average SQ. Will not hit high notes as well as Dayton or Peerless.

Peerless XXLS: regarded to be comparable to Dayton Reference and IDQ, but needs a more modest amplifier. In a sealed box of optimal size, it will reportedly hit higher bass notes relatively distortion free while having a deep bass extension comparable to Type-R.

Image Dynamics IDQ: this one seems like one of the forum's favorite SQ subs, with online prices starting at $250.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

ZAKOH said:


> I think Alpine Type R has hit some kind of previously unknown price sweet spot with this sub because so many people look for the best sub in "130-150 mark". It may well be possible it's one of the best for that price for your application. JL Audio subwoofers like w6 or w7 series may be great, but they're a lot more expensive. However, should you consider subs in the 150-250 price range, and not only those made by JL or Alpine, then that opens up a lot of possibilities, such as:
> 
> Dayton Reference HO 12, the DVC version, price online from Parts-express: about $155. It probably needs a stronger amp than Type-R, but according to WinISD will hit deep bass notes even louder than Type-R. This one is considered to be one of the more hardcore SQ subs and it will hit the higher bass notes better than Alpine Type R (just because Type-R can play mid-bass notes, it's not necessarily doing it distortion-free).
> 
> ...


I'll throw another one just for fun: 
JBL P1222 
http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/jbl/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/BoxesandParameters/P1222rev3_27_06.pdf 

My friend has 2 of them in his "horn" car in a ported box and it doesn't miss a beat. Really impressive for the price. Construction is top notch too  

I'd go JBL and Dayton before any other brands for your price range... 

Kelvin


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

x2 on the JBL vs. Alpine

I paid $150 shipped for mine from Sonic, and it single handedly ended my reckless sub buying spree. 

Pros:
Great price, durable like a tank, efficient, loud, excellent SQ (crossed at 80 hz)

Cons:
Ugly, bulky, 14 5/8" outer ring for a 12, which sticks out of the box like 2" or so...

... But, if I blew it (and it looks that'll never happen), I would order another one as soon as I could get to a computer...

My second choice is the RE SE/x. They sound wonderful, but not near as efficient as the JBL.


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## Syaoran (Jun 27, 2011)

ZAKOH said:


> I think Alpine Type R has hit some kind of previously unknown price sweet spot with this sub because so many people look for the best sub in "130-150 mark". It may well be possible it's one of the best for that price for your application. JL Audio subwoofers like w6 or w7 series may be great, but they're a lot more expensive. However, should you consider subs in the 150-250 price range, and not only those made by JL or Alpine, then that opens up a lot of possibilities, such as:
> 
> Dayton Reference HO 12, the DVC version, price online from Parts-express: about $155. It probably needs a stronger amp than Type-R, but according to WinISD will hit deep bass notes even louder than Type-R. This one is considered to be one of the more hardcore SQ subs and it will hit the higher bass notes better than Alpine Type R (just because Type-R can play mid-bass notes, it's not necessarily doing it distortion-free).
> 
> ...


Somebody that understood, thank you Jesus!

I was definitely looking at the Dayton HO 12" (it was actually recommended to me before buying the Type R, and I'm sorry I didn't get it then...)
Would it be as good sealed as the Type R is? I might consider ported, but everywhere I go to and see, ported is SPL and sealed is SQ, because ported doesn't provide as smooth of an output as sealed because of lost backpressure... I've seen videos on youtube with dB meters where the same sub, ported vs sealed to optimum box specs the ported just sounds louder around the port tuning frequency and is less stable during a frequency drop test tone from 100-20Hz.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Syaoran said:


> Somebody that understood, thank you Jesus!
> 
> I was definitely looking at the Dayton HO 12" (it was actually recommended to me before buying the Type R, and I'm sorry I didn't get it then...)
> Would it be as good sealed as the Type R is? I might consider ported, but everywhere I go to and see, ported is SPL and sealed is SQ, because ported doesn't provide as smooth of an output as sealed because of lost backpressure... I've seen videos on youtube with dB meters where the same sub, ported vs sealed to optimum box specs the ported just sounds louder around the port tuning frequency and is less stable during a frequency drop test tone from 100-20Hz.


If you have enough EQ power to apply cuts where needed, the ported enclosure will actually have much lower distorsion due to less excursion, sound as fast and be more efficient for your dynamic peaks and easier on your vehicle electricals than sealed... I have a nice thread with my findings: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1183365-post32.html

Kelvin


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Syaoran said:


> Somebody that understood, thank you Jesus!
> 
> I was definitely looking at the Dayton HO 12" (it was actually recommended to me before buying the Type R, and I'm sorry I didn't get it then...)
> Would it be as good sealed as the Type R is? I might consider ported, but everywhere I go to and see, ported is SPL and sealed is SQ, because ported doesn't provide as smooth of an output as sealed because of lost backpressure... I've seen videos on youtube with dB meters where the same sub, ported vs sealed to optimum box specs the ported just sounds louder around the port tuning frequency and is less stable during a frequency drop test tone from 100-20Hz.


For sealed box, you can effectively use any small sealed box you like with good results (0.5 to 0.8 cu ft or so). One can easily run a dual subwoofer setup with these without giving up too much trunk space. The only problem is that they're relatively inefficient in a sealed box. Subwoofer modeling software suggests that this subwoofer needs to be fed something like 3 times the wattage of a subwoofer like a Type-R to produce the same SPL. Going ported may help with it. I believe there are several threads on this forum about running Dayton HO's in ported boxes. Supposedly they sound well in small ported boxes, but you will need to custom build it and have all parameters right. Actually, this efficiency aspect kind of worries me. If I had a relatively weak amplifier, I'd go with Peerless XXLS instead. It's been well tested and is comparable to Dayton HOs, but efficiency is better.


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