# Looking at possibly jumping into HLCDs again.



## richiec77 (Sep 11, 2011)

I haven't used a set since about 1997 and only then for about 2 weeks before some low life stole my car at the time. So I'm still rather new and haven't messed with them in a long time. I do remember the great imaging out of the box with min work and how dynamic they were.

Right now I'm going thru an upgrade/change as the current set-up just isn't doing it for me. This will be installed into a 2008 dodge ram QC. 

Hu will be ecellent for this: DEX-P99RS 
Amps are to be: Zuki 6-channel(the one that he only made a few of 3x6 IIRC)
Zuki small mono for subs (x2 IDmax 10")

Current setup is a Dynaudio 342. The mid range is giving me fits with imaging. Horns seem like my best bet to get where I'd like to be. I'm thinking about competing again so that's a consideration but I mostly I am doing this for myself for long drives (it's a tow/daily driver)

All that being said it appears from reading that my main considerations are going to be:
1.) mini vs full body
2.) 3-way vs 4-way

On point #1 the consideration is the fact I have a business console in the truck and not the typical 3rd front seat arrangement. There's hard plastic all in there that may change the consideration between mini vs full. The harder cross-firing might be more crucial here. I have read the crap out of clienselect's thread so I'm caught up there but I noticed he didn't seem to get the horns as far back as he could have with the mini-bodies. The fulls did seem to be installed as far back and out as is physically possible before major modification of the blower housing would be needed. 

On point 2 I'm talking about doing a driver in the door to supplement the low end kick and using a high efficiency drive for midrange. Is it possible and better to use a mid like a 6mdn44 driver in the kicks playing down to about 200hz or so and then have the door mid bass pick-up from about 63-80hz to about 200? 

Main reason I'm asking is it would seem optimal for imaging and staging reasons to place the Mid-range in the kick Panel area. AND it would be way easy to install a 6 1/2 in there vs an 8" From what I've seen of the 8" drivers recommended they don't play that low anyways. But I see people recommending installing efficient drivers in the doors if they can't fit an efficient one in the kicks. 


To recap some of the ideas and set-ups I've seen thrown around here:
ID Mini-bodies with B&C DE500-8ohm
6" drivers: B&C 6NDL44 B&C 6MDN44, 18 sound 6ND430
8" drivers: B&C 8NW51, B&C 8NDL51
High-powered amps for all speakers...minus the horn since they're so efficient. (a 3W Zuki map is PERFECT! LOLOLOL)

I just was looking around on 18 Sounds website and there's a new driver that looks EXCELLENT: 8NW900 
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=313

*98 dB SPL 1W / 1m average sensitivity *
65 mm (2.5 in) Interleaved Sandwich split Voice coil (ISSV) 
600W program power handling
External neodymium magnet assembly reduces Thermal Power Compression
Unlimited life lead wire construction
Single Demodulating Ring (SDR) reduces intermodulation distortion
*Weather protected Cone and plates for outdoor usage*
Suitable for line array applications and *compact enclosures*

Mounting depth is 99mm=3.9".....tough fit even in dodge doors.


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## richiec77 (Sep 11, 2011)

Basically I have a semi-liberal budget for this upgrade. I'm looking at around $1500 or so to spend on just the speakers. I've it seen said that to do a proper HLCD system you need to start somewhat from scratch and plan around the horns. So far it appears I am doing that. Amps, subs and processing is there. I'm doing the speakers from scratch. The only thing I may need to possibly think about upgrading is adding even more power to the front midrange/mid-bass if the Zuki 6-channel I just bought isn't enough.


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

I just bought Steven Audio Ultra Driver HLCD and to my surprise they sound just like Pro Audio Driver, so revealing in mid to high frequency region. Very life and dynamic sound!

Wendo


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I would go with a 3-way system. get the highest efficiency 6.5" to 8" driver you can in the door and use that from 60-1000hz and then let the horns pick up from there.

I have the ID x65s in my doors with the ID cd1eMH and imaging is really good. the only thing you will have to worry about is matching power. most 6.5" to 8" are only 90-95dB sensitive whereas the horns are 108-111dB.(depending on the driver) so basically you need like 250watts per channel on the misbasses and about 25 watts on the horns


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Go three way HLCD, midbass and subs. Doing a dedicated midbass isnt necessary unless you are going for super high output system and to me it sounds more like you are after loud SQ which is fine with a 6.5". A 6.5" in the kick will do the job nicely but they must be installed correctly which is more difficult than mounting an 8 in the door location. You cant go for the ultra high efficiency versions but need to stick in the 90 to 92dB 1w/1m range to blend with the crossover at 80 Hz. An 8" in the door will lose focus of the center but gain you some output (spl).

With a large and reflective console go with the full size, or use MH and properly treat the sides of the console.

In a full size vehicle you dont go far left and right, with the full size the outside edge of the mouth opening would be approx 4-6" farther out than your outside knee. pushing them back under the dash helps equalize the path lengths. Given the option I would recommend finishing up the rest of the system and test placement by listening to them.


Eric


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Double post
Eric


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## richiec77 (Sep 11, 2011)

Eric Stevens said:


> Go three way HLCD, midbass and subs. Doing a dedicated midbass isnt necessary unless you are going for super high output system and to me it sounds more like you are after loud SQ which is fine with a 6.5". A 6.5" in the kick will do the job nicely but they must be installed correctly which is more difficult than mounting an 8 in the door location. You cant go for the ultra high efficiency versions but need to stick in the 90 to 92dB 1w/1m range to blend with the crossover at 80 Hz. An 8" in the door will lose focus of the center but gain you some output (spl).
> 
> With a large and reflective console go with the full size, or use MH and properly treat the sides of the console.
> 
> ...


Double Post just pwned Eric! haha. 

1st, it's just awesome that you as the designer of this awesome product still take the time to come on here to provide advice and help out. Pretty rare in any industry so thank you. I think I remember your Sable from the older Car Audio magazines from back in the 1990's. It was a tan/silver car with an RTA mounted in the dash?

OK. Seems like I have a choice to make: I think I'll choose the easier option starting out and work on the installation from there if I want to try and improve the image some more. So I'll need to choose a good 8" and mount it in the door. Thankfully Dodge must have had us audio nutz in mind with that area. 

I've been PM'ing back and forth with Boostedrex and I'll be bridging CH 1-2, 3-4 for the mid-bass and running the horns off of CH 5-6. The amp is designed for 4ohm stereo as the low impedance. So the bridge 8ohm load is perfect for this amp. Should put out about ~300-350W for each Mid-bass. Horns can get a PERFECTLY suited 3W's! lol. 

Good thing I just remembered is I'll have the option to change mechanical phase to delay the mid-bass a tad and I still have all the T/A I can use from there to get the doors to blend a little better. I'm already thinking about getting slightly away from a stealth install with the doors since the stock panels will absorb a good bit of the output. I'm currently experiencing this now since the MW162 in the door is playing from 80-900Hz/6dB slope. It's causing a rainbow effect. With the door panels off the sound is more coherent. This I'll just have to play with before cutting metal in the doors. 

OK. 3-way system. Would like some opinions on 8" speakers from everyone please. 

With the horns I have the extra cash to try both out. The bodies are $200 and I can always sell the ones I don't use. I have some fabrication skills so I can play around with the installation some to see which sounds better. I'll also PM Clineselect to get his opinions directly. But from 1st glance...getting deeper into the dash area may work here. Outward gets tricky for the passenger side. I'll grab a tape measure and measure out some PLD's tomorrow afternoon. 

When people say to properly treat the console area, are they/you talking about adding some Acoustical Foam to the sides to absorb reflections? I have a couple sq ft to use. If I'm thinking about this correctly you're talking about building a sound trap on the sides. Basically for it to be cosmetically nice it would be acoustical foam with like grill cloth or speaker carpet over the top to make it pretty?


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## richiec77 (Sep 11, 2011)

Oh. Most important question is what compression drivers to try out 1st? I've seen people saying the DE500 is good. Looks like the driver that comes with the Ultra ProComp set? This would also seem to be the point where selection is tougher since if the full bodies are used people have said they are able to cross them low like 650-800Hz. Mini's seem to start at around 1kHz+

Saw these while searching around on Ebay....Hmm Big though (5 3/4" dia, 4 1/8" depth, 10 1/2 lbs)!!

JBL 2425H 15" Drivers with RCF Horns (PAIR) in Boxes | eBay


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I maybe wrong, but i dont think the ID ultras are the de500. they are(were) made my ID. 

Morel H8.1 8" Hybrid Series Woofer 297-066

or maybe look at the x69?


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

most important thing to look for is make sure the mid is effiecient enough to keep up with the horn.


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## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

I am running DE500 in minibodies and love it. I want to try the JBL2118's I have or the B&C drivers you listed but it's more work then I am willing to put into my doors. Sounds like you have a solid plan.


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## richiec77 (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm definitely going to jump in with both feet. Eric recommends the Full Bodies with the Ultra compression driver for my set-up. And for simplicity and speed sake, I'm going to run 8" drivers in the door. 

I did send the US distributor an E-mail asking about the availability of the 18 Sound driver I posted up about: the new 8NW900. We'll see what comes of that. If it's more than a 1-2 week wait, then I'll go ahead and get the 8NW400's for the time being and still look at getting the 8NW900's to test out later on.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

asawendo said:


> I just bought Steven Audio Ultra Driver HLCD and to my surprise they sound just like Pro Audio Driver, so revealing in mid to high frequency region. Very life and dynamic sound!
> 
> Wendo


Stevens Audio is in business now?
I clicked on the website via LinkedIn, and it redirected to Image Dynamics


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Stevens Audio is in business now?
> I clicked on the website via LinkedIn, and it redirected to Image Dynamics


Patrick yes I am selling horns under Stevens Audio for now.

Website linked on my linkedin profile is still going to old url which has the article for horns published way back when posted.

Eric


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Eric Stevens said:


> Patrick yes I am selling horns under Stevens Audio for now.
> 
> Website linked on my linkedin profile is still going to old url which has the article for horns published way back when posted.
> 
> Eric


Where is your new website actually Eric?!


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Stevens Audio is in business now?
> I clicked on the website via LinkedIn, and it redirected to Image Dynamics


Yes, and IMHO with better product


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

asawendo said:


> Where is your new website actually Eric?!


Waiting to make a proper launch in the near future.

Eric


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Eric Stevens said:


> Waiting to make a proper launch in the near future.
> 
> Eric


Is your forum still working? Back......Inst......com? 

Kelvin


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Is your forum still working? Back......Inst......com?
> 
> Kelvin



I just tried & had no luck.


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## TokoSpeaker (Nov 12, 2010)

Eric Stevens is back now.
He established a new company, with much more better result.

*Two thumbs up, Mr. Eric Stevens*


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## richiec77 (Sep 11, 2011)

I have a set of 8MB400's on the way and just scored a deal on some JBL 2119H's. (The 2119 is a JBL update to the 2118. Added power handling, reliability etc. Basically worth it and newer which means it's cheaper to rebuild/re-cone too)

Hopefully in about 1-2 weeks I'll have everything installed. I'm thinking around or just after Thanksgiving. I'm currently doing some power system upgrades and what not. I'm taking pictures and getting ready to start a build log this time around. 

Thanks for all the help and advice. This should be loud and fun system.


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