# how to break in your new speakers...



## Thumper26

I took apart an old clock radio, and then cut the wires going to the two speakers inside, then cut a notch out of the side plastic for the speaker wires to come through. you can see them sticking out the side in the pics.

then I wired the comps in the box with some cheap wire i had lying around, using female spade terminals to attach the wire to the speakers.

twist an tape leads from the crossover, and you're done. i'm going to stick this in the closet with some pink noise playing on a low volume for a week or so. when i pull them out they should be a little more limbered up. 

pics:


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## ErinH

LMAO!

As funny as that is, it's actually a really clever idea. Good thinking, J!


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## Hillbilly SQ

i need to do something like that. also love that speakerwire. would be good for jumpers on mids and tweets to keep stress from female connectors out of the equasion.


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## Thumper26

thanks erin. i downloaded the stereo pink noise track from realmofexcursion and burned it 76 times on a cd, and put the cd on repeat. the speakerwire is scosche 18 gauge from walmart...hella cheap.


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## Hillbilly SQ

i'm using some 20-22awg that came with my memphis component set for pigtails. seems to be plenty for such a short run. now i wanna dismantel my clock radio.


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## bobditts

or you can use your home stereo outputs like I did with my new OZ audio 4" comps. I used the passive crossovers just for the brteak in period and installed them active.


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## Thumper26

i don't have a home stereo.  

what gave me the idea was those desktop cd players with the giant detachable separates that you connect the wire to the back.

i didn't have one of those, just this.

my biggest concern was that the 4 ohm load might be too low and the radio would crap out. i just got back from being at my dad's all day and it's still playing. it sounds like water pipes are in my closet. 

i'm going to turn the stereo off on friday before i leave town just in case. that'll be right at 100 hours.


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## drake78

I think there is a specific volume to fully break them in. If you play at very low volumes the mechanics of the speaker barely move. I used to use the same method. By low volume for break in. Now that I think about it. I don't think it's very effective.


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## Thumper26

i had it on low, but i checked the speakers and they were barely moving, so i turned it up. it's relatively audible sitting right outside the door, but sitting in the livingroom with the tv on, you can't hear it at all.


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## oldloder

It wouldn't work so well for open drivers, but when I got my ACI Spirits they recommended I face the speakers toward each other as close as they could be with the polarity reversed and turn the volume up to a reasonable listening level. In this way they would be pushing and pulling each other. They recommended at least 50 hours of break in before finally evaluating them and I'd come home every day for almost a week expecting a change ... and that day came in a big way. They really sounded like different speakers, imaging, tonality, extended response in highs and lows ... I was blown away. But finally, unless you're only breaking in tweeters I'd guess that you'd need mids to be making reasonable amounts of excursion to affect much change.


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## tcguy85

cool idea.


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## Thumper26

yeah not sure how much different they'll sound, but any jump i can get on breaking them in, the better.

there's nothing more irritating than trying to tune speakers that are still changing tonally.


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## pontiacbird

Thumper26 said:


> yeah not sure how much different they'll sound, but any jump i can get on breaking them in, the better.
> 
> there's nothing more irritating than trying to tune speakers that are still changing tonally.


true that......so i guess tweeters need a bit of time to break in as well?


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## Thumper26

sure, why not? 

i've had a couple of different sets change tone on me after a few weeks of playing.


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## customtronic

I use an old school Soundstream D60 amp and an old CD player that I had laying around. The amp is tiny and about 30w per channel, plus it's a good, clean quality amplifier. It seems to work well for me.


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## MarkZ

Stick a ball in it and put it under the mattress.


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## n2audio

MarkZ said:


> Stick a ball in it and put it under the mattress.


good answer - shaving cream makes a good lightweight mousturizer too. 

So the speaker break-in crowd is alive and well here at DIYMA??...hmmm...


I think speaker break in is one of the most overblown issues among audio circles. If you're getting drastic (ie - audible) changes in speaker params from a few hours of playing what are they going to sound like after 100? 1000 hrs?

I believe high end mfgs have recognized that the people willing to pay the big bucks for a pair of speakers _expect_ to have to go through some elaborate break in procedure to get ultimate performance from these precision crafted instruments they just paid out the ears for.
I have a feeling if you talked off the record to the designers they'd tell you to put your favorite cd in and turn it up.

And exactly how much "loosening up" will a couple watts from an alarm clock do anyway? Doesn't a speaker actually have to MOVE to "loosen up"?


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## pontiacbird

n2audio said:


> p.And exactly how much "loosening up" will a couple watts from an alarm clock do anyway? Doesn't a speaker actually have to MOVE to "loosen up"?


i think break in's apply more to mid's and woofers, and maybe a part of the change in tonality is attributed to our changes in hearing, so to speak.....

it does make some sense though, breaking in a speaker....after all, the suspension of the mid does go through some changes, most likely getting a bit looser after some time......breaking them in is more like covering the bases, just to keep things consistent, response wise

at low frequencies, a couple watts is all it takes to get it moving, right now i've got my radio hooked up running 20 hz sines, and it's getting maybe 5 watts rms.....and the movement is quite noticable.....


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## MarkZ

1) If speaker break-in exists, how do we know it doesn't revert back to its unbroken-in state after it's been sitting for a day?
2) If speaker break-in exists, how do we know that the broken-in sound is better than the unbroken-in sound?
3) How does the effect of break-in compare to, say, the variation in Re during normal operation caused by power compression? Or changes in ambient temperature?

Basically...if break-in exists...why is it important?


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## Thumper26

dynaudio recommends 100 hours of break in. the speakers a playing a full range pink noise cd over and over. you don't have to get it super loud to feel the movement on the mid. holding my hand on it, the mids are moving about a consistant 1/8" if not more. to be honest, i've never believed in it too much except for a couple of speakers that i've heard several others say it makes a difference. It's going to be a while before I get them installed, and when they're in, I want to be able to tune them and not worry about it. I'll be the first to admit that tuning is my weakness just b/c i have fewer time doing that than install, etc, and the LAST thing i need is a speaker limbering up while i'm trying to get it to sound right. So, since i have a couple of weeks before I'll be ready for them, I'm taking whatever measures I can to make sure they're ready for me when I'm ready for them.

Mark,

1) when they play they're stretching out the spider and loosening up the surround. think of folding a piece of paper back and forth across the same crease. if you stop, that crease doesn't tighten back up.

2) if it does exist, then it's inevitable. looser more flexible parts allows the speaker to move with less resistance, therefore being more responsive and playing more effortlessly.

3) changes in temp can have a fast, immediate effect on a speaker. i'm sure we've all seen that in the winter, and possibly even in the summer too. break-in, if it happens, (and i think it does to all speakers) whether or not is audible afterwards, would be a more permanent change on the speaker.

i think of it as similar to breaking in a new baseball glove and getting the stiffness out of it.

i really really wish i had thought to buy a woofer tester so i could measure the T/S parameters of them before and after the break in.


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## pontiacbird

Thumper26 said:


> i really really wish i had thought to buy a woofer tester so i could measure the T/S parameters of them before and after the break in.


if anyone does have one, it'd be a great way to see if it does affect the T/S

anybody got one?


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## npdang

With about 30 seconds of high amplitude pink noise you can fully break that speaker in. It's about the same effect as 100 or 1000 hours of low volume noise.


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## MarkZ

Thumper26 said:


> Mark,
> 
> 1) when they play they're stretching out the spider and loosening up the surround. think of folding a piece of paper back and forth across the same crease. if you stop, that crease doesn't tighten back up.
> 
> 2) if it does exist, then it's inevitable. looser more flexible parts allows the speaker to move with less resistance, therefore being more responsive and playing more effortlessly.
> 
> 3) changes in temp can have a fast, immediate effect on a speaker. i'm sure we've all seen that in the winter, and possibly even in the summer too. break-in, if it happens, (and i think it does to all speakers) whether or not is audible afterwards, would be a more permanent change on the speaker.
> 
> i think of it as similar to breaking in a new baseball glove and getting the stiffness out of it.
> 
> i really really wish i had thought to buy a woofer tester so i could measure the T/S parameters of them before and after the break in.


I really don't think it's anything at all like breaking in a baseball glove. With a baseball glove, stiffness=bad. With a speaker, that's not necessarily so. We don't want infinite compliance. That's bad. And speakers with more compliance than others aren't necessarily better either.

And yes, changes in temperature have an immediate effect. But different operating points mean different temperatures, which in turn mean different Re, which means a drastically different impedance curve, which results in an altering of the freq response curve of the speaker. I'm pretty sure that power compression is going to alter your speaker more than "break-in". And I'd wager that the effect that different ambient temperatures have on the suspension and the coil temp are also more prominent than any alleged differences due to break-in.

So I'm not convinced that break-in is a meaningful effect, even if it's real.


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## ErinH

MarkZ said:


> even if it's real.


I've tried to avoid even mentioning the doubt of break-in.

It seems companies say to do this, but yet many argue that "break in" isn't actually of the speaker itself; rather the listener's ears. ...


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## Thumper26

npdang said:


> With about 30 seconds of high amplitude pink noise you can fully break that speaker in. It's about the same effect as 100 or 1000 hours of low volume noise.


define high amplitude pink noise. you mean pink noise at a high volume?

i'm playing pink noise at a medium volume right now.




bikinpunk said:


> I've tried to avoid even mentioning the doubt of break-in.
> 
> It seems companies say to do this, but yet many argue that "break in" isn't actually of the speaker itself; rather the listener's ears. ...


that's my hangup. i don't see why a company would recommend a break in period if it wasn't necessary. maybe they're hoping people will do it while listening to their stereos and then will end up liking the speakers after listening to them for 100 hours? or hope that it takes them longer than the return policy to get the break in done? i'm just spitballing here...


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## Neil

MarkZ said:


> 1) If speaker break-in exists, how do we know it doesn't revert back to its unbroken-in state after it's been sitting for a day?


Because you can measure it.


MarkZ said:


> 2) If speaker break-in exists, how do we know that the broken-in sound is better than the unbroken-in sound?


When has improved efficiency and extended low frequency response (even if minimal) sounded worse? Let's look at it from the other approach....why wouldn't it sound better?


MarkZ said:


> 3) How does the effect of break-in compare to, say, the variation in Re during normal operation caused by power compression? Or changes in ambient temperature?


Power compression dominates. By a long shot. I couldn't comment on the effects of ambient temperature beyond what has already been documented by people like John Krutke.



MarkZ said:


> Basically...if break-in exists...why is it important?


In my opinion, it isn't unless you're taking measurements and comparing them with the manufacturer's published specifications.




npdang said:


> With about 30 seconds of high amplitude pink noise you can fully break that speaker in. It's about the same effect as 100 or 1000 hours of low volume noise.


I respectfully disagree. 

Let's put aside our ears for a moment and even our microphones. I can say first hand that I have noticed a speaker's suspension to be noticeably more compliant after several weeks of use than it was after 5 minutes of use. I would be surprised, to say the least, if others haven't had the same experience. I say this referring to simply pushing on the speaker...not scientific by any means but you get the point.


Perhaps comments from others with more celebrity than myself might hold more weight...



Dan Wiggins said:


> ALL mechanical systems will wear and all mechanical springs will get softer; in this case, it's by design. You break/crack a lot of the epoxy bonds (phenolics are used as well) that permeate the spider, and thus it becomes softer.
> 
> We often see a 20% drop in Fs over a lengthy break-in, and we quote numbers for drivers broken in. Out of the box all our drivers measure high; beat on them for 40-50 hours, though, and they will be permanently lowered (Fs, that is).
> 
> One thing to note is that it would be expected Fs would drop, Qes and Qts would drop, and Vas would increase; all these are exactly what happens when you raise Cms, which is the same thing as making the spider softer.





Scott Atwell said:


> They will need a good break in preiod before they settle into specs and really start to shine SQ wise. Or with only 700-800W, I can use 2 soft spiders to get a wee bit more out of them and to be a little more stable suspension wise overall.





Paul Roth said:


> Anyone who thinks a woofer's parameters don't change due to break-in / burn-in is either ignoring the data, has lousy data, or is not doing much of a break-in. Granted that the effect on the in-box measured curve, due to break-in / burn-in, may or may not be significant, depending on the box.


All of whom are well known and oft-respected engineers in the industry. I have an email or two from folks at TC Sounds saying much the same that I can dig up if necessary.

There is always such skepticism regarding speaker break-in but I wonder where the evidence is that supports such a stance.

I have a few speakers around here that I could do trials on (again) if some desire hard numbers. I know I posted some in another thread a while ago, but it may not have been here.


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## drake78

I don't think different types of speakers can be generalized for a specific method of break in. Every manufacture and models are engineered differently and have different materials characteristics.


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## MarkZ

Punk0Rama said:


> Perhaps comments from others with more celebrity than myself might hold more weight...


How come you left out Richard Pierce's comments on the issue?




> All of whom are well known and oft-respected engineers in the industry. I have an email or two from folks at TC Sounds saying much the same that I can dig up if necessary.
> 
> There is always such skepticism regarding speaker break-in but I wonder where the evidence is that supports such a stance.
> 
> I have a few speakers around here that I could do trials on (again) if some desire hard numbers. I know I posted some in another thread a while ago, but it may not have been here.



I would also like to see a study done. The closest thing I've seen to it was when someone measured a small change in T/S parameters, but it was horribly controlled. It didn't answer any of the questions I posed in my other post, even.


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## backwoods

I have no doubt that break in exists. Especially since I switched to fully active in the house. It was easily recognizable. 

I really notice it on low distortion metal/mag cone midrange drivers.


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## Oliver

UPS breaks in my speakers ! 

bump..bump...screech...

I walked my subwoofers up and down the driveway, does that count !?


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## n2audio

music breaks in my speakers


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## cvjoint

I think the term break-in is a bit misguided for speakers. For one they aren't made like engines where pistons and sleeves are engineered to have irregularities to allow for self adjustment of the cylinder wall with the piston. It's not like formating a cellphone battery either.

I agree that the speaker suspension loosens up in time, but that goes on after the manufacturer's recommended period. If anything maybe you need to RTA every couple of years to account for that.

I see some benefits from *not breaking in a speaker. A tighter suspension usually means better low end sensitivity in a car environment where you IB a speaker. Aren't most people better off with a higher QTS in a car environment?

I am allowing a month of break in for my speakers just in case the loosening up is a lot more severe the first weeks. But is it? And if so how much would be the ultimate question.*


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## escalade520

Why not, its worth a try, isnt gonna hurt anything, and i have some time on my hands until i am actually putting them in


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## drake78

Those new focal speakers are slick with the metal phase plug.


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## Thumper26

escalade520 said:


> Why not, its worth a try, isnt gonna hurt anything, and i have some time on my hands until i am actually putting them in


nice job escalade


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## escalade520

Thumper26 said:


> nice job escalade


the clock radio is almost exactly the same too lol timex


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## Thumper26

lol yeah, you prolly have the newer model.


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## Dangerranger

I think dictating long breakin periods are more to allow the people to adjust to the sound of the speakers instead of immediately admitting dissatisfaction and writing them off. When you say "I'm really disappointed with the sound of these drivers, I think I'm going to return them", the reply is "Don't worry, consumer, after a proper breakin the sound will change dramatically and you'll be happier with the results". I.E. you grow accustomed to the sound. And you transition from the 30 day (or however long) return period to the warranty period. If the speakers are built well enough, the company wins.  

I'm not saying that after some playing time the suspension doesn't loosen up and the parameters do change a bit, but I think your ears growing accustomed to the sound is the largest factor in this. As time goes on, a speaker eventually gradually loosens up further, the suspension wears out more, so on and so forth. People don't complain that much about the sound gradually degrading in their speaker sets, because they adjust to them as time goes on.


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## bretti_kivi

disagree. I have two pairs of TG9s and having thraped one pair at a party, they are sooo much better basswise than the others.... wow.
It's possible that they're differently manufactured. But: same positioning, same amp / box / music, very different sound.
The second pair are now much better (after two solid days playing "room level" music at home) but they still don't match the first. I'll be using the TG9s that are going into the car at work for at least a couple of weeks before I do anything else. 

Bret


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## Keith Turner

Good idea. I would let them play for a very long time because that radio does not have a lot of power, so you may need to let them play longer to break in.


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## Thumper26

Keith Turner said:


> Good idea. I would let them play for a very long time because that radio does not have a lot of power, so you may need to let them play longer to break in.


yeah, maybe it's just the nature of pink noise, but they seemed damn loud. i had i think 4 blankets over the box and could still hear it. they played for a week straight, so if they're not broken in yet, they're close.


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## MajorChipHazard

Wow that is an absolutely brilliant idea.I think I need to do this with my speaker too


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## phidippus

I just hook mine up to my home amplifier and run a sample of of Beethoven's ninth at half pitch for 2 hours a day for a week. The slowed symphony creates some very nice smooth oscillations that work the drive gently. I don't think running the speakers continuously really matters. In fact, starting and stopping play heats the driver, then cools it, allowing its materials to expand and contract, promoting more efficient travel. But my theory may be just whack, like crack.


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## Thumper26

phidippus said:


> In fact, starting and stopping play heats the driver, then cools it, allowing its materials to expand and contract, promoting more efficient travel. But my theory may be just whack, like crack.


awesome then. my cd has 70 copies of a 1 minute pink noise track, so there's a 2-3 second pause between tracks.


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## MarkZ

Thumper26 said:


> awesome then. my cd has 70 copies of a 1 minute pink noise track, so there's a 2-3 second pause between tracks.


2-3 seconds is not enough to cool a speaker at all. 2-3 minutes is probably closer to what you want, if that's your goal.


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## Thumper26

eh, i never really knew about it beforehand, but the speakers run fine.


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## pontiacbird

cvjoint said:


> I see some benefits from *not breaking in a speaker. A tighter suspension usually means better low end sensitivity in a car environment where you IB a speaker. Aren't most people better off with a higher QTS in a car environment? *


*

could you explain this to me.....i thought the complete opposite, I'm not one to really consider T/S parameters, but common sense tells me that a looser suspension would yield a more efficient low end response.....*


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## aviator79

So to break in my dynaudo esotec 362 componets, should I just hook it to my home stereo in series off of one channel to one crossover and then wire the speakers in series to get 8 ohms. That is what I was told. Guess Im just going to listen to whatever and hope not to go crazy.


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## bretti_kivi

my sls6 has just been running in place of a midwoofer in the lounge for the last week. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing....I think i'll build a box shortly for this. 16mm MDF outside, then some rockwool and thin inner walls. a terminal or two on the outside and a lid that comes off. should be simple enough....and if I do it right, I can leave it at work on a timer and a tuner so that I don't disturb anyone.

Bret


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## Hixson

Not sure how he did it but Ken Pohlman from CSR and Hammer Labs used 8 volts to break in speakers before reviewing them. Not sure how he did it though.


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## gijoe

I don't have much for home audio except a pioneer htib. Since I don't have any passive crossovers, do you think I can hook a new OEM ID mid to the sub channel and play it? If I hook it to the front or back channels do you think it'll be playing too high?


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## Timmah318

I would suspect breaking in speakers has about as much a noticable difference as using 100 dollar per foot cable. That is, negligible. With all the other factors associated with how our cars sound different depending on the environment (and state of our listening ability at any one time), I would be extremely surprised if breaking in speakers was worth the effort. I'm not saying its a bad idea if you wanna waste some time, but IMO I dont think its worth the effort.


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## Thumper26

timmah, i'm going to have to disagree with you. some speakers may not be as affected by it as others are, but there are some where it's night and day. think about it: the power from the amp energizes the voice coil, which is moved up and down due to the strength of the magnet on the speaker and the alternating current from the amp. as it moves the spider and surround, they get more flexible, therefore giving less resistance to the coil and cone being moved, and therefore the speaker plays more efficiently and is better able to be controlled by the power sent to it. on a pair of walmart coaxials, you prolly won't ever hear a difference. On a set of Hybrid L3's, play one in a closet for a couple of days, then compare them a to b. It's very noticeable.

Or you just have really sucky hearing and don't need anything more than cheap walmart coaxials...


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## captainobvious

How much can a bad 1 or 2 watt clock radio break in component sets as its not going to move the cones very much? Also, would the very high distortion rate be a cause for concern ?


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## Thumper26

it could have been negligable on that aspect. it was playing 20-20k pink noise in 1 minute bursts for a week straight. it may have not helped a lot, but i figured something is better than nothing. the cone was being moved, which is about all i can ask for.


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## robbyho

I have an article on my site about this: http://artofnoiseaudio.com/articles.php?antfile=a_breaking_in_a_subwoofer

There have been a few studies done on this. Tom Nousaine did one and published the results, but for the life of me I can't find it. In this article he discusses some of his conclusions.

http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/BurnInLegend.pdf

Basically all the tests that have been done conclude :

Post break-in parameters change occur early into break-in (within seconds or minutes)
Pre and post break-in specs are within tolerance of manufacturers posted specs.
Variations in manufacturer specs will have more impact than variations in pre/post break-in specs.
Changes usually revert back to original specs as the driver settles(due to cooling, settling, etc.)
Parameters change in such a way that the box size and the frequency response are not effected.

If your driver sounds different after break-in, then it is you getting used to the sound and not the sound changing.


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## ItalynStylion

I just got an IDMAX and it asks that you break the sub in. It had a piece of bright yellow paper with WARNING printed on it in huge bold letters.

I think it is more intended to loosen up the sub a little bit before nearing the mechanical limits during play time. If I were to go try and run a 4:20 mile without stretching I would probably injure myself because my range of motion isn't quite enough to work at that level of exertion. Same probably goes for a sub/speaker.


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## MarkZ

Thumper26 said:


> as it moves the spider and surround, they get more flexible, therefore giving less resistance to the coil and cone being moved, and therefore the speaker plays more efficiently and is better able to be controlled by the power sent to it.


Err...if a "more flexible" surround was desired, then all the manufacturers would work towards making them more flexible. But they don't.

In other words, "more flexible" is not the same as better.


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## cvjoint

I think some folks here might notice a slightly softer suspension due to temperature rise and then incorectly attribute it to break in. 5F increase will do much more to a speaker than a year of break in. I feel that some car audio subs have too high of a QTS sometimes, or the overall Q hits the celing. I love it when the summer comes along and smooths things out a bit.


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## Thumper26

MarkZ said:


> Err...if a "more flexible" surround was desired, then all the manufacturers would work towards making them more flexible. But they don't.
> 
> In other words, "more flexible" is not the same as better.


it depends on what the goal of the speaker is. the surrounds on my dyns are about as thin and flimsy feeling as i've ever felt. i think the surround on the Hybrid L3 felt stiffer. i think the spider is what has a lot to do with it though. to me, that's what ends up needing to break in the most. And like i said before, you may not notice it on every speaker. But there are some out there that have a very noticeable difference after a break in period.


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## MarkZ

Thumper26 said:


> it depends on what the goal of the speaker is. the surrounds on my dyns are about as thin and flimsy feeling as i've ever felt. i think the surround on the Hybrid L3 felt stiffer. i think the spider is what has a lot to do with it though. to me, that's what ends up needing to break in the most. And like i said before, you may not notice it on every speaker. But there are some out there that have a very noticeable difference after a break in period.


Well, sure, it always depends on your goals. But just keep in mind that some people choose drivers that have stiffer surrounds. Ultimately, the choice is governed by the QTC you're chasing, power handling requirements, etc. Like I said, more pliable surrounds are not equivalent to "better" surrounds. And if you've modeled your system based on non broken-in measurements (assuming break-in is real and permanent and substantial, which most experiments have not shown, by the way...), then you don't want the compliance to change.


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## ItalynStylion

I just got a CD in the mail that I'm using to break in the IDMAX. It's a hang drum CD that has a song on there with a didgeridoo accompaniment. It's like a constant 50-80hz test tone with variations. I need to play some other stuff too though because the sub is barely even moving!


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## Megalomaniac

ItalynStylion said:


> I just got a CD in the mail that I'm using to break in the IDMAX. It's a hang drum CD that has a song on there with a didgeridoo accompaniment. It's like a constant 50-80hz test tone with variations. I need to play some other stuff too though because the sub is barely even moving!


we need a build day meet asap! I want to hear it


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## ItalynStylion

Dude, it's gonna be sick...check out the thread in the "Other Audio" section for updates


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## oren

What is the recommanded full procedure for breaking in new speakers?


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## scooter99

I'm not sure if this was menchioned, I didn't see it, but can you do this with subs too? I have 2 Fosgate shallow mount 12's and they're supposed to be broken in for 48 hours min. If I can do this it would save me from haveing to wait like I did on my 10's to tune everything. Or if someone has any other suggestions that would be helpful too! Thanks!


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## ErinH

Sure.


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## Oliver

npdang said:


> With about 30 seconds of high amplitude pink noise you can fully break that speaker in. It's about the same effect as 100 or 1000 hours of low volume noise.


What Nguyen said ^^^

speakers are like girls [ they loosen up when you play em ], start out low then up-n-down awhile and there loose.


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## trunks9_us

Ok When I get my speakers in I will be needing to break them in like everyone says. I am going to be breaking in dynaudio esotar2 mids. Now this might be a dumb question but does I need to break in the tweets also?

This is the receiver I will be using to break them in with.

Denon AVR-1908 apparently it puts out 120 watts at 6 ohms from what I can gather. While this is perfect for the tweets sine there 6 ohm the mids are 4 ohms. Will my receiver have a problem playing these on breaking them in since there 4 ohms? Also I am being told to play pink noise to open them up how long should I be playing pink noise and how loud? I was planning on just hooking them up going to work and school all day and sleep and just let them play like this for ever unless I am needing to let them rest and any time. I believe that is All I need to ask about breaking in speakers.


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## tyroneshoes

trunks9_us said:


> Ok When I get my speakers in I will be needing to break them in like everyone says. I am going to be breaking in dynaudio esotar2 mids. Now this might be a dumb question but does I need to break in the tweets also?
> 
> This is the receiver I will be using to break them in with.
> 
> Denon AVR-1908 apparently it puts out 120 watts at 6 ohms from what I can gather. While this is perfect for the tweets sine there 6 ohm the mids are 4 ohms. Will my receiver have a problem playing these on breaking them in since there 4 ohms? Also I am being told to play pink noise to open them up how long should I be playing pink noise and how loud? I was planning on just hooking them up going to work and school all day and sleep and just let them play like this for ever unless I am needing to let them rest and any time. I believe that is All I need to ask about breaking in speakers.


You can wire them in series while they break in. No need to heat up the denon.


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## AVIDEDTR

I recently burned in my Hybrid L3 and L6 off an old POS JVC all in one unit my wife had. Played versatile Rock music for 24 hours pushing the 3's more then the 6's wired in series. Then disconnected the 3's ran the 6's at 10hz for around 20 hours at low to med volume just enough for them to move half to three quaters of their excursion. To me tweeters don't need burning in no suspension no need. 

Once installed I run them at moderate volumes for a 1-3 weeks then start adjusting levels!


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## MarkZ

I just rub icyhot on mine. Icy to dull the pain, hot to relax it away. Lowers the Fs.


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## AVIDEDTR

MarkZ said:


> I just rub icyhot on mine. Icy to dull the pain, hot to relax it away. Lowers the Fs.


NICE


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## audisoner 596

I don't do break-ins on my DLS 960, but after 2 weeks driving, I do notice a difference in the sound.


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## pikers

*bump from the grave*

Thing about skeptics that doubt break-in exists forget a simple thing: Most people don't actually listen to the speakers while it's happening. Experienced audiophiles use a passive method (noise while at work, etc), not active. There is no becoming accustomed to the sound during this process.

Additionally, to assert that an XXX hour break-in time is to avoid a return period ignores the simple fact that manufacturers are paid when they sell to businesses, not consumers. Returns don't affect a manufacturers bottom line; they have little to no reason to recommend this course of action, unless it had merit.


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## MarkZ

pikers said:


> *bump from the grave*
> 
> Thing about skeptics that doubt break-in exists forget a simple thing: Most people don't actually listen to the speakers while it's happening. Experienced audiophiles use a passive method (noise while at work, etc), not active. There is no becoming accustomed to the sound during this process.


That begs the question, though. If they can't observe the change, then they can't insist it exists. Most of the people who claim there's a change didn't break it in, but instead used it and noted the perceived change.



> Additionally, to assert that an XXX hour break-in time is to avoid a return period ignores the simple fact that manufacturers are paid when they sell to businesses, not consumers. Returns don't affect a manufacturers bottom line; they have little to no reason to recommend this course of action, unless it had merit.


Returns DO affect the manufacturer's bottom line, both directly and by reputation.


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## pikers

MarkZ said:


> That begs the question, though. If they can't observe the change, then they can't insist it exists. Most of the people who claim there's a change didn't break it in, but instead used it and noted the perceived change.


Many insist that sighted comparisons and observations are inherently flawed. I don't necessarily agree with this POV, but it exists.



> Returns DO affect the manufacturer's bottom line, both directly and by reputation.


Price erosion and product saturation affects a manufacturer's reputation more than the occasional return.


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## MarkZ

pikers said:


> Many insist that sighted comparisons and observations are inherently flawed. I don't necessarily agree with this POV, but it exists.


Not really sure what you mean. If someone is going to insist that something exists, they should have some sort of support for it. If I insisted that everybody's subwoofers grew legs after midnight and walked to the neighborhood bar, then it would require me to provide SOME sort of explanation -- either observational or mechanistic.

The "break-in" crowd needs to therefore either say, "yeah, I heard it", or point to some sort of measurement, or provide some sort of mechanistic explanation. SOMETHING. So, for the groups that you're talking about who don't listen to the speakers as they're breaking in, they're not actually reporting anything. They're just parroting someone else's reports.



> Price erosion and product saturation affects a manufacturer's reputation more than the occasional return.


Ok. So does poor performance, even if "poor" is unfairly defined as merely different.


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## chad

MarkZ said:


> Not really sure what you mean. If someone is going to insist that something exists, they should have some sort of support for it. If I insisted that everybody's subwoofers grew legs after midnight and walked to the neighborhood bar, then it would require me to provide SOME sort of explanation -- either observational or mechanistic.


May I ?


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## Oliver

MarkZ said:


> *If I insisted that everybody's subwoofers grew legs after midnight and walked to the neighborhood ba*r, then it would require me to provide SOME sort of explanation -- either observational or mechanistic.


 Follow those subs >>> 
Not sure if they'll be broken in ... But, They'll damn sure be LOOSE !!


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## pikers

MarkZ said:


> Not really sure what you mean. If someone is going to insist that something exists, they should have some sort of support for it. If I insisted that everybody's subwoofers grew legs after midnight and walked to the neighborhood bar, then it would require me to provide SOME sort of explanation -- either observational or mechanistic.
> 
> The "break-in" crowd needs to therefore either say, "yeah, I heard it", or point to some sort of measurement, or provide some sort of mechanistic explanation. SOMETHING. So, for the groups that you're talking about who don't listen to the speakers as they're breaking in, they're not actually reporting anything. They're just parroting someone else's reports.


I suppose the theory is that one becomes acclimated to the way a speaker sounds, so the break in happens in between the listener's ears. Generally speaking, anyone believing in break in will of course report some sort of change, positive or otherwise. Seems to me that the only way to avoid the acclimation process is to burn in the speakers with noise, preferably even going so far as to not hear the process at all. Then, any change is more honestly attributed to changes in the speakers' characteristics, no the listener's impression of them formed from exposure.



chad said:


> May I ?


Yes, please! Your views are always well received.


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## chad

pikers said:


> Yes, please! Your views are always well received.


LOL I was asking to sig it.... My views on speaker break-in have been expressed before and they are very similar if not equal to Mark's.


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## MarkZ

pikers said:


> I suppose the theory is that one becomes acclimated to the way a speaker sounds, so the break in happens in between the listener's ears. Generally speaking, anyone believing in break in will of course report some sort of change, positive or otherwise. Seems to me that the only way to avoid the acclimation process is to burn in the speakers with noise, preferably even going so far as to not hear the process at all. Then, any change is more honestly attributed to changes in the speakers' characteristics, no the listener's impression of them formed from exposure.


Yeah, that might be a good way to perform an experiment. But nobody installs the sub in their car, listens for a minute, brings it back in the house and gives it white noise for a few hours/days/years, and then has a friend put either the broken-in sub or another new one in the car (as to blind the listener).

So, to address your original point, I don't think the break-in skeptics are neglecting anything in that regard.


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## Oliver

Vance A Dickason wrote his views on it in his book titled "The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" . . . Amazon.com: Loudspeaker Design Cookbook: Vance Dickason: Books

He appears to be a musician, speaker designer, audio magazine tester of speakers [ CAE ].

and what he said : is other . . .


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## pikers

MarkZ said:


> Yeah, that might be a good way to perform an experiment. But nobody installs the sub in their car, listens for a minute, brings it back in the house and gives it white noise for a few hours/days/years, and then has a friend put either the broken-in sub or another new one in the car (as to blind the listener).


Sure, but what they will do is run pink noise at work. Or should. 

Although, I am certain this practice happens less in the car audio world, where typically it's a practice of beating the hell out of speakers and if they don't break, they're "quality."



> So, to address your original point, I don't think the break-in skeptics are neglecting anything in that regard.


Except taking the advice of the people that actually make the speakers.


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## MarkZ

pikers said:


> Except taking the advice of the people that actually make the speakers.


Correction: the people who SELL the speakers.

Generally good practice, IME.


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## bigaudiofanatic

I just listen to them at a normal level for about a week or so.


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## pikers

MarkZ said:


> Correction: the people who SELL the speakers.
> 
> Generally good practice, IME.


Well true, manufacturers technically sell the speakers (or want to) obviously. I heard this more from manufacturers' reps than salespeople I knew.

And I think it's good practice to not assume that because someone is selling something, that they're automatically dishonest. There's way too much selectivity when evaluating that. In other words, if you got a sweet deal, they're great guys!


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## MarkZ

pikers said:


> Well true, manufacturers technically sell the speakers (or want to) obviously. I heard this more from manufacturers' reps than salespeople I knew.
> 
> And I think it's good practice to not assume that because someone is selling something, that they're automatically dishonest. There's way too much selectivity when evaluating that. In other words, if you got a sweet deal, they're great guys!


What do you think a rep is?


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## WRX/Z28

pikers said:


> Additionally, to assert that an XXX hour break-in time is to avoid a return period ignores the simple fact that manufacturers are paid when they sell to businesses, not consumers. Returns don't affect a manufacturers bottom line; they have little to no reason to recommend this course of action, unless it had merit.


How can you say returns don't affect a manufacturers bottom line? What do you think causes a business to buy more speakers? running low on stock? or having some returns in stock? 

Even more so, if a dealer see's a product returned more often than others, how likely is that dealer to order more of that particular product?


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## ganesht

WRX/Z28 said:


> How can you say returns don't affect a manufacturers bottom line? What do you think causes a business to buy more speakers? running low on stock? or having some returns in stock?
> 
> Even more so, if a dealer see's a product returned more often than others, how likely is that dealer to order more of that particular product?


Im not sure how large of an effect the rma-ed products would be on the manufacturer, but im sure it would cause a larger impact on the dealers..


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## comforta

This is an interesting concept.


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## BooKoo

Thats Funny


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## miphonematt

Being a total nerd and self proclaimed scientist (not really, but it sounded funny in my head) I have always observed break in period. I let cell phone batteries charge for 24 hours before use, and I break in speakers. 

A good ear test is to hook them up to a nicely powered set of 2.1 computer speakers and an old laptop or cd player in the garage. I bought 3 sets of Klipsh 2.1 setup that have a fair amount of power to the speakers (ie, not the sub which has the amplifier). This obviously only works for components or non subwoofer speakers as the frequency delivered is already filtered/crossed. Take a baseline observation upon initial hookup at a decent volume. Then after 25 hours take another observation. Then again at 50. You aren't "getting used to the sound" as you aren't in your garage for the 50 hours (unless maybe your wife is REALLY pissed about you spending 600 bucks on some midbass drivers). I've noticed a fairly significant difference, and this is in a very different environment than where they will be installed.

Of course hard numbers would be much harder to argue with, but this is my perception.

I really dig this thread, many valid questions raised, and many valid statements made. Makes me feel a bit less crazy (only a bit tho  ).

I really appreciate MarkZ's statements and questions. Every thread I read, I find I learn from every question he poses, and most every statement he makes. This forum rocks!


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