# PPI 2500F1-The Legend Unveiled



## Darth SQ

This is what your get when a company chooses to take the gloves off, open their wallet, and design a product that pushes the limits of the company's abilities with and understanding that they're will be no ROI (return on investment). 
Or in other words...... 


*PPI built it because they could....end of story.*


1998 15th Anniversary Catalog


1998 CES PPI Display




For those of you that follow PPI amp history and lineage, you know that this is the most elusive and expensive amp they made. It's so damn rare that even the details of it's production are but bits and pieces here and there.
Now I have been fortunate to become friends with people from time to time that previously worked for PPI such as Carolyn Hall Young and others and have been privileged to hear some very interesting behind the scenes stories which is the reason for this thread.
I have a new story to present and it is as interesting as the amp itself. 

I have recently become friends with a former engineer that began working at PPI just after the sale of the company in 1995.
He oversaw the production of 2500F1.
He wishes to remain anonymous for the time being but here's what he told me about it.

The 2500F1 was made for the 15th Anniversary Line and was an absolutely amazing amp to behold. However, it's production history has a checkered past.


*The 2500F1 had two separate runs.......no ****.*


The 2500F1 in 1998




FIRST RUN

There were no more that 15 made and they were a real ***** to produce.
They were auctioned off by PPI to a few select distributors.
They were serial#s 001 through 015, came in the custom case we're all familiar with, and had an elaborate certificate of authenticity. 
The first amp serial# 001 auctioned off for $15,000 and established the high price benchmark we've all read about.
It was sold to a distributor in Japan, and as far as my friend knows, he still has it.
The other 14 sold for less depending on what PPI could get for them during the auction.
That was all the F1s that were supposed to be made.






Second Run

When Butler Audio bought PPI, they made a 2nd run to cash in on the lore.
An exact number of how many were made is unknown but there were no more than 36 in total including the 1st runs.
Any amp with a serial# over 015 is a 2nd run amp.
It did not have the custom case or the original certificate of authenticity.
Now here's where it gets really nasty.


*PPI made a 2nd 2500F1 with serial# 001........unbelievable.*


It was the idea of someone in Sales and Marketing and sold to an unknown buyer for an undisclosed amount just after Butler Audio bought the company.
So there are two 001s floating around out there.
Good thing the original buyer is well documented to clear up which is which.

That's all I have for now.
I will post more as more information comes up.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Hi-FiDelity

I thought there was a rule about posting smut on here! 

That's one fine amp.


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## MACS

My kind of thread .


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## Darth SQ

Bump for the Sunday crowd.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## sqchris

details, reviews....anyone seen/heard these in action? more pics!


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## thehatedguy

You sure about Butler buying PPI?


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## Darth SQ

thehatedguy said:


> You sure about Butler buying PPI?


I fact checked as much as I could.
Click the link below.
4th paragraph down.

Butler Audio


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## MACS

Here is one I had on my test bench a while back and a group shot of the 15th Anniversary amp collection.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Here is one I had on my test bench a while back and a group shot of the 15th Anniversary amp collection.


Thanks for posting..
The 2nd pic tells me you had a 1st and a 2nd run amp.
Do you remember the serial numbers?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## sqchris

MACS said:


> Here is one I had on my test bench a while back and a group shot of the 15th Anniversary amp collection.


WoW! Thoughts, impressions?


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## MACS

cajunner said:


> nice..
> 
> love the raw drivers on the shelves in the background, the blue formers make me think of dynaudio.


Good eye on the Dyn's. I have them laying all over the place......lol. Literally. 




PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Thanks for posting..
> The 2nd pic tells me you had a 1st and a 2nd run amp.
> Do you remember the serial numbers?
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Both amps are low serial numbers(under #015). The used one was missing the case and accessories, but it works just fine without the line driver as long as it is used with a strong preamp. I was using an Eclipse 55090 (8v max) for the testing and it did just fine.

Oh.....btw, I know of several amps over serial #015 that came with the flight case, certificate, license plate, and all accessories. I have multiple friends that own them and have seen the amps. The truth is there are not many hard facts around on these amps. Amp #001(Japan) has been hunted down for years by a good friend of mine, but the trail went cold long ago. The last time it was spotted in Japan the condition was reportedly not great . 



sqchris said:


> WoW! Thoughts, impressions?


Space heater comes to mind . Damn, it sure does sound sweet once it gets warmed up. Effortless power.


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## MACS

A few more pics. Words can not describe how beautifully these amps are built. Heavy, precise, and quality not normally associated with car audio.


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## SouthSyde

MACS said:


> A few more pics. Words can not describe how beautifully these amps are built. Heavy, precise, and quality not normally associated with car audio.


Showoff!  







j/k my friend!


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## Hi-FiDelity

That is what I would call an amp. Thank for the additional Pics MACS.


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## sqchris

if there is such thing as a holy grail for me....this is it!


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## rc10mike

Awesome piece of history right there.


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## MACS

AutoSound Japan did an article on the 2500F1 and used serial #001 for the photo shoot. Alpha Audio was the Japan importer for PPI and they are the ones who bought amp #001 and also three other amps. All of those imported amps, with the exception of #001, now reside in a private collection.

There were at least three amps that were sent to Europe, but so far I have only accounted for two of those. One amp is also known to be in Korea. When the project came to and end there were several unfinished/prototype amps, so hard to say how many they actually made with serial numbers. All of my contacts around the world and I have yet to witness anything above #024. 

One of my best friends in Japan has been on the trail of #001 for many years. The amp has reportedly changed owners multiple times and I quote, "....was last seen as a trashed, beat up thing with scratches and chrome pits all over it."  

This is amp #001 in all of its original glory:


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## sqchris

MACS said:


> Autosound Japan did an article on the 2500F1 and used serial #001 for the photo shoot. Alpha Audio was the Japan importer for PPI and they are the ones who bought amp #001 and also three other amps. All of those imported amps, with the exception of #001, now reside in a private collection.
> 
> There were at least three amps that were sent to Europe, but so far I have only accounted for two of those.
> 
> One of my best friends in Japan has been on the trail of #001 for many years. The amp has reportedly changed owners multiple times and I quote, "....was last seen as a trashed, beat up thing with scratches and chrome pits all over it."
> 
> This is amp #001 in all of its original glory:


I understand the urge to use this monster in car but to be trashed....sad


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## Victor_inox

MACS said:


> Here is one I had on my test bench a while back and a group shot of the 15th Anniversary amp collection.


 I want test bench like that with genelecs as reference speakers.


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## MACS

Victor_inox said:


> I want test bench like that with genelecs as reference speakers.


Ha! Those are Behringer's. I test a lot of equipment with unknown history, so everything on my test bench is disposable. I can abuse the snot out of those monitors and don't care if they blow. I have to admit they are pretty damn tough. They have survived some nasty amp pops that should have at least blown the tweeters. The 2500F1 did not kill them either and I pushed them hard.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> AutoSound Japan did an article on the 2500F1 and used serial #001 for the photo shoot. Alpha Audio was the Japan importer for PPI and they are the ones who bought amp #001 and also three other amps. All of those imported amps, with the exception of #001, now reside in a private collection.
> 
> There were at least three amps that were sent to Europe, but so far I have only accounted for two of those. One amp is also known to be in Korea. When the project came to and end there were several unfinished/prototype amps, so hard to say how many they actually made with serial numbers. All of my contacts around the world and I have yet to witness anything above #024.
> 
> One of my best friends in Japan has been on the trail of #001 for many years. The amp has reportedly changed owners multiple times and I quote, "....was last seen as a trashed, beat up thing with scratches and chrome pits all over it."
> 
> This is amp #001 in all of its original glory:


The question is, which #001 is trashed.
I now can confirm the first #001 was sold to Mr. Honda in Japan.
Here's the link that puts your buyer info and my buyer info together:


ALPHA AUDIO INC. - Tel:0081 92 5031837 Email:[email protected]


Excellent addition to the story MACS! :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Victor_inox

MACS said:


> Ha! Those are Behringer's. I test a lot of equipment with unknown history, so everything on my test bench is disposable. I can abuse the snot out of those monitors and don't care if they blow. I have to admit they are pretty damn tough. They have survived some nasty amp pops that should have at least blown the tweeters. The 2500F1 did not kill them either and I pushed them hard.


I should look more carefully, these god damn Behringers looks alike.

Behringer stuff is hit and miss, some good other complete junk.


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## PPI_GUY

Fascinating thread. 
There is little doubt that these amps are by far the most desired PPI piece out there. However, it just continues to amaze me that more and more pics surface of these wonderful amps yet, I can't find more than one...that's right ONE...pic of a black Pro Mos 450!


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## sqchris

PPI_GUY said:


> Fascinating thread.
> There is little doubt that these amps are by far the most desired PPI piece out there. However, it just continues to amaze me that more and more pics surface of these wonderful amps yet, I can't find more than one...that's right ONE...pic of a black Pro Mos 450!


Remember seeing a few back in the day before the internet. How rare is a black ProMos 450 in comparison to the 2500F1?


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## quietfly

is there a pdf of the original article? i'd like to read it..


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## sqchris

Any pics of this beast in a car?


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## Darth SQ

My contact has provided me with some more info and I will do my best not to paraphrase it.
He finds it highly unlikely that Mr. Honda would have sold the 1st #001, is convinced that he still has it, and believes it is likely the 2nd run #001 is the trashed one floating around out there.
However, he also states that there may be a fake 3rd #001 because when ADST/Orion/PPI went bankrupt, there were several F1's made available at auction and lots of parts including a couple of heatsinks that showed pitting indicating someone might have put the pieces together to make more.
This would be consistent with the unfinished prototypes statement and/or the rough condition of the #001 F1 all mentioned by MACS.

We're working through all this one piece at a time.
My next step is to contact Mr. Honda through e-mail and inquire if he still has the original #001 F1.
It would be amazing if we could get some new pics of her if Mr. Honda does still own it. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## sqchris

saga continues...


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## MACS

Ok. My friend called Alpha Audio on June 17th and spoke to his contact there who is chief of sales. He confirmed that Mr. Honda no longer owns #001. Mr. Honda sold #001 to a customer soon after the amp was passed around to various magazine publishers and retailers in Japan. Alpha Audio has no knowledge of #001 for many, many years. 

Alpha Audio imported four new 2500F1 amps and they all had serial numbers. Three of those are sitting in a private collection and can be verified. It is very unlikely anyone else would have brought any amps into Japan, due to high import costs plus the high initial cost of the amp itself. Alpha Audio was the importer for PPI during this period, so any amps would have gone through them.

The last known account of #001 was from a Japanese car audio competitor from who my friend purchased (on my behalf) a mint in box PPI Pro650 15th Anniversary amp. This was approximately April 2010. The Pro650 owner had once known the owner of #001, but after being asked to contact that person, found the amp had long since been sold. The Pro650 owner is also the person who claimed the amp was in a sad state and showed considerable lack of care. The current location of #001 remains a mystery. 

Pics of my ultra rare PPI Pro650 sourced from Japan. Notice the PASS Alpha Audio inspection sticker


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## SaturnSL1

Haha what an interesting thread. 

There's something special about car audio when it'll make a bunch of grown men track an amplifier down cross country like a long lost lover after returning from the war or something.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Ok. My friend called Alpha Audio on June 17th and spoke to his contact there who is chief of sales. He confirmed that Mr. Honda no longer owns #001. Mr. Honda sold #001 to a customer soon after the amp was passed around to various magazine publishers and retailers in Japan. Alpha Audio has no knowledge of #001 for many, many years.
> 
> Alpha Audio imported four new 2500F1 amps and they all had serial numbers. Three of those are sitting in a private collection and can be verified. It is very unlikely anyone else would have brought any amps into Japan, due to high import costs plus the high initial cost of the amp itself. Alpha Audio was the importer for PPI during this period, so any amps would have gone through them.
> 
> The last known account of #001 was from a car audio competitor from who my friend purchased my mint in box PPI Pro650 15th Anniversary amp from. This was approximately April 2010. The Pro650 owner had once known the owner of #001, but after contacting that person found the amp had long since been sold. He is also the person who claimed the amp was in a sad state and showed considerable lack of care. The current location of #001 remains a mystery.
> 
> Pics of my ultra rare PPI Pro650 sourced from Japan. Notice the PASS Alpha Audio inspection sticker


That clears that up.
Now who has the damn thing?
One issue that is not clear about in your friend's story is what country was it last confirmed in.

USA or Japan?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## sqchris

SaturnSL1 said:


> Haha what an interesting thread.
> 
> There's something special about car audio when it'll make a bunch of grown men track an amplifier down cross country like a long lost lover after returning from the war or something.


At least in car audio, you have a better chance of finding her in mint condition


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## SaturnSL1

sqchris said:


> At least in car audio, you have a better chance of finding her in mint condition


ZING!


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## req

very cool read guys.

what is one of these amps worth currently?


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## asota

MACS said:


> Ok. My friend called Alpha Audio on June 17th and spoke to his contact there who is chief of sales. He confirmed that Mr. Honda no longer owns #001. Mr. Honda sold #001 to a customer soon after the amp was passed around to various magazine publishers and retailers in Japan. Alpha Audio has no knowledge of #001 for many, many years.
> 
> Alpha Audio imported four new 2500F1 amps and they all had serial numbers. Three of those are sitting in a private collection and can be verified. It is very unlikely anyone else would have brought any amps into Japan, due to high import costs plus the high initial cost of the amp itself. Alpha Audio was the importer for PPI during this period, so any amps would have gone through them.
> 
> The last known account of #001 was from a car audio competitor from who my friend purchased my mint in box PPI Pro650 15th Anniversary amp from. This was approximately April 2010. The Pro650 owner had once known the owner of #001, but after contacting that person found the amp had long since been sold. He is also the person who claimed the amp was in a sad state and showed considerable lack of care. The current location of #001 remains a mystery.
> 
> Pics of my ultra rare PPI Pro650 sourced from Japan. Notice the PASS Alpha Audio inspection sticker


I have a friend running a pro-650 in his SQ install but it is the dark colored one the one in your picture 3 looks a lot like a pro-6800.


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## MACS

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> That clears that up.
> Now who has the damn thing?
> One issue that is not clear about in your friend's story is what country was it last confirmed in.
> 
> USA or Japan?
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Sorry I did not specify that. Amp #001 was last seen in Japan and the last person to have confirmed seeing it was the previous owner of my Pro650 amp. (my earlier post is now edited  )




asota said:


> I have a friend running a pro-650 in his SQ install but it is the dark colored one the one in your picture 3 looks a lot like a pro-6800.


They made two versions of the Pro650. The more common metallic dark gray and the limited edition chrome Pro650 15th Anniversary with custom silk screened top and plexi bottom. 

The Pro6800 was also chrome, but did not have the 15th anniv silkscreens and also did not have the plexi bottom. The Pro6800 is not a common amp, but not nearly as rare as the Pro650 15th Anniversary.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Sorry I did not specify that. Amp #001 was last seen in Japan and the last person to have confirmed seeing it was the previous owner of my Pro650 amp. (my earlier post is now edited  )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They made two versions of the Pro650. The more common metallic dark gray and the limited edition chrome Pro650 15th Anniversary with custom silk screened top and plexi bottom.
> 
> The Pro6800 was also chrome, but did not have the 15th anniv silkscreens and also did not have the plexi bottom. The Pro6800 is not a common amp, but not nearly as rare as the Pro650 15th Anniversary.


As far as you know any DIYMA members own one?
Also about one to two years ago, someone posted (might have been you) pics of I think three 2500F1s all together in the same shots, cases and all, on DIYMA.
Were those the three privately owned now in Japan?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTROR[/QUOTE]




Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTROR


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## MACS

I know multiple amp owners, but out of respect to their privacy, I do not disclose the amp #'s or their contact info. They seem to be a very private group and I do not want to betray that trust. Yes, I know the owner of the picture you are referring to.

To date, I have posted the most detailed pics of a 2500F1. Some of you may remember the long series of pics I posted a while back. I canceled my POS "New" Photobucket account and they all were deleted. I may repost them all when I get some time. I would love to see the day when there is an amp registry and everyone posts pics of their amps.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> I know multiple amp owners, but out of respect to their privacy, I do not disclose the amp #'s or their contact info. They seem to be a very private group and I do not want to betray that trust. Yes, I know the owner of the picture you are referring to.
> 
> To date, I have posted the most detailed pics of a 2500F1. Some of you may remember the long series of pics I posted a while back. I canceled my POS "New" Photobucket account and they all were deleted. I may repost them all when I get some time. I would love to see the day when there is an amp registry and everyone posts pics of their amps.


By all means MACS, please feel free to post those pics in this thread when you have time.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## cleansoundz

Those amps are so nice and well built. I would be afraid to use one of those in my car. Keeping it in pristine condition would be a top priority for me.


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## quietfly

specs on the amps? just out of curiosity..


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## sqchris

cleansoundz said:


> Those amps are so nice and well built. I would be afraid to use one of those in my car. Keeping it in pristine condition would be a top priority for me.


I am on a diff school of thought and would install it properly and enjoy!


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## SaturnSL1

sqchris said:


> I am on a diff school of thought and would install it properly and enjoy!


Seriously lol. I'd at least have it hooked up in the house on a set of monitors or something.


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## Hi-FiDelity

SaturnSL1 said:


> Seriously lol. I'd at least have it hooked up in the house on a set of monitors or something.


Nah install it in the car inside a sealed plexiglas box.


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## sqchris

Anyone actually heard this amp installed in a 12v environment?


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## The Dude

Beautiful piece of industrial art there. I remember reading the article about it in one of the car audio mags, Car Stereo Review maybe? Wish I still had that issue, I would scan it in a heartbeat and post it up....


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## Darth SQ

I'd run it and I'd show it at car audio events so others could hear it too.
It would likely be the first documented build that used an actual 2500F1.
My problem is I would be tempted to replace all the caps prior to keep from taking a chance on a meltdown. 
I wonder if those same purple caps can still be obtained?
Hmmm.

If I'm still in this hobby 10 years down the road, I might obtain one and do just that.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Hi-FiDelity

cajunner said:


> push screws through the mounting holes.
> 
> tighten the wire clamps.
> 
> insert the RCA's.
> 
> Turn on, and enjoy.


That's just what it's engineers would want you to do with it. Personally I think it's a bit of an insult to them to leave a product like this sealed up in a box/vault/locker forever. It was made to reproduce music and that's what it should be doing, even if it's in a climate controlled hermetically sealed box at the heart of some home stereo.


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## Darth SQ

Here's the latest info I have about the F1.
PPI never installed one in a demo vehicle.
The only F1 that PPI put into service was the unchromed pre-production model that they used in the engineering sound room and it remained there until it was replaced with a pre-production Tubedriver TD2200.

The F1 was designed by PPI's top engineer Todd Eichenbaum as was the above mentioned TD2200.
Anyone know if this guy's still around?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## msmith

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> The F1 was designed by PPI's top engineer Todd Eichenbaum as was the above mentioned TD2200.
> Anyone know if this guy's still around?
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Todd Eichenbaum is currently the head engineer at Krell, the high end home audio company.


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## sqchris

msmith said:


> Todd Eichenbaum is currently the head engineer at Krell, the high end home audio company.


I went from Krell KSA 250 to Simaudio W5 LE about 5 years ago when I was building an all Canadian system. I wonder if he and Dan D'Agostino worked on the old amp? PPI to Krell sounds like a natural transition.

Making me want to hear the F1 even more!


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## PimpMySound

Here in Germany, you can find a PPI 2500F1, too:









More photos here: http://www.facebook.com/dannys.carhifimuseum/photos


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## Darth SQ

PimpMySound said:


> Here in Germany, you can find a PPI 2500F1, too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More photos here: http://www.facebook.com/dannys.carhifimuseum/photos


Lower left?
Does it have a serial# and if so, what # is it?
Thanks!


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## cajunner

those Lightning Audio Bolt class amplifiers, don't belong on that board, haha..


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## ou812

cajunner said:


> those Lightning Audio Bolt class amplifiers, don't belong on that board, haha..


I thought the same thing.


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## Darth SQ

ou812 said:


> I thought the same thing.


Maybe they're just place holders for some PPI chrome 15th anniversary series amps. :shrug:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## sqchris

PimpMySound said:


> Here in Germany, you can find a PPI 2500F1, too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More photos here: http://www.facebook.com/dannys.carhifimuseum/photos


PPI 2500F1 the most valuable in your collection?


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## MiloX

What a fun read. Thanks to all the contributors.


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## Darth SQ

I don't think I ever posted this link to the 1998 CES show.
Scroll down to the Precision Power section for a review of the entire 1998 PPI line up. 

The 1998 International CES Review!


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Dubstep

these went on sale on ebay way way back for as low as 1500 bucks!!!!!!!!!


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## teichenbaum

Yes, I'm still around.
The few years spent at PPI at that time, with that group of people, were some of the most fun of my professional life. The F1 project was a riot.
I was at Krell until last February. I'm now with the Luxury Audio unit at Harman.


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## rton20s

Wow, thanks for checking in. Welcome aboard. 

Anymore light to shed on the subject of this thread? (Or anything else for that matter?)


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## teichenbaum

I think PPI may only have built 25 of these units, which would explain no serial numbers observed above #024. (There may have been talk of building 50, but I can't remember if that ever happened.) I also think there were two #007 units, not #001, but I could be mistaken--I left PPI before they finished building the 25 units.
In fact PPI used TWO 2500F1s in our listening room, each in bridged mono (2000 watts into 4 ohms), driving PMC monitors (from England--transmission line bass using PPI flat panel carbon fiber woofers). The dynamics with that system were ridiculous. We used to demo the Sheffield Drum Record; I'd watch the people listening visibly flinch every time Jim Keltner whacked the snare drum.
Alpha Audio bought several units. Don't know where they wound up. Mr. Honda loved 'em, though. (Nice man, by the way.)
It's unfortunate the TD2200s never saw production. Those were nice amps but completely different in their presentation. We also used two of those bridged. We'd turn off the lights in the sound room so you could see all those tube filaments glowing, which also made that nice vacuum tube holographic sound that much more enjoyable.
That was a great group of engineers, professionally and personally speaking. The beginning of the end was when Ted and Chris Guenther sold the company at the end of 1997; before that, it was the best place I ever worked.
The 2500F1 was a big, discrete, current-feedback amp, with big switching power supplies running it--every bit as many components and as much attention to detail as the craziest home amplifier. Challenging to build and a lot of fun.


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## MACS

Welcome Mr. Eichenbaum! Thanks so much for contributing your knowledge. I don't suppose you know of any schematics for those amps laying around anywhere? I have a friend with a couple of the unfinished prototypes that could use some help getting them up an running.


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## The Dude

I just found my stash of car audio mags when cleaning out my storage locker today, including the one where the test the 2500F1. Not sure if anyone posted up that article on here yet?


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## teichenbaum

Hmmmm...not sure where there are any schematics. If I have them, I'll need to do some serious digging to find them.
Those amps are not the easiest to work on--lots of parts in general, and plenty of them surface mount. Definitely not for the faint of heart!
Good luck.


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## MACS

Mr. Hayashida, one of Alpha Audio's (and Yamaha) engineers was working on them, but sadly Mr. Hayashida passed away. The current tech has had them for years and has not made much progress. 

Please keep me in mind if you ever happen to run across any documentation on them. I have searched for years, but nobody seems to have anything left from that project.
I have two of your 2500F1 in my possession, so open invitation to listen to them anytime you want .


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Mr. Hayashida, one of Alpha Audio's (and Yamaha) engineers was working on them, but sadly Mr. Hayashida passed away. The current tech has had them for years and has not made much progress.
> 
> Please keep me in mind if you ever happen to run across any documentation on them. I have searched for years, but nobody seems to have anything left from that project.
> I have two of your 2500F1 in my possession, so open invitation to listen to them anytime you want .


I checked with my repair tech (The Stig) for you just now and the 2500F1 is one of the few original PPI schematics that he doesn't have.....sorry buddy. 

Welcome to the 2500F1 thread Mr. Eichenbaum.
Your presence here and your ability to help us reconstruct PPI history will be a godsend. 

FTR, my anonymous contact that worked at PPI who provided me all the 2500F1 and TD2200 info in this thread is not Todd, so we have two former employees helping us through all this.
Actually, with Carolyn Hall Young, my indirect contact with Jeff Scoon through CHY, and another contact through my anonymous friend that wants to remain anonymous as well, that brings us to five........AMEN!

That's almost enough to write a screenplay! 


(Addendum)
And also FTR, The Stig is not the former anonymous employee in case anyone's trying to keep track of all of this. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## JohnVella

Great piece of information right here. Thank for the additional Pics MACS.


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## Darth SQ

Another thread has brought me back to this one.
Anything new to add to all this by anyone?
Macs? Any luck on the schematic search or location of these amps?

I guess I could have just typed......bump. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## alm001

I missed this thread when it was new. Glad it got bumped.

Bret, your threads seem to bring out big names. Its fun to watch you acquire knowledge and resources!

Funny that Alpha Audio was mentioned, too, as I had them repair my Denon R1 about 10 years go.


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## Darth SQ

alm001 said:


> I missed this thread when it was new. Glad it got bumped.
> 
> Bret, your threads seem to bring out big names. Its fun to watch you acquire knowledge and resources!
> 
> Funny that Alpha Audio was mentioned, too, as I had them repair my Denon R1 about 10 years go.


Thank you. 
I try my best.
It would be a shame to lose the history of all this to the sands of time.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## MACS

Bret,

Nothing new to report on the search for 2500F1 documentation. I know there has to be some paper work and left over parts somewhere, but I'm guessing it may be years or decades before it surfaces. It is really sad these beautiful amps ended up being an orphaned stepchild.

What do you think about moving this thread to the Old School forum? I think it would get more attention there. 

Later,
MACS.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Bret,
> 
> Nothing new to report on the search for 2500F1 documentation. I know there has to be some paper work and left over parts somewhere, but I'm guessing it may be years or decades before it surfaces. It is really sad these beautiful amps ended up being an orphaned stepchild.
> 
> What do you think about moving this thread to the Old School forum? I think it would get more attention there.
> 
> Later,
> MACS.


Good idea. 
Done. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## mr.metoo

Awesome thread, glad it was bumped


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Bret,
> 
> Nothing new to report on the search for 2500F1 documentation. I know there has to be some paper work and left over parts somewhere, but I'm guessing it may be years or decades before it surfaces. It is really sad these beautiful amps ended up being an orphaned stepchild.
> 
> What do you think about moving this thread to the Old School forum? I think it would get more attention there.
> 
> Later,
> MACS.


Well this just got interesting.
I found this pic on one of the Facebook Old School groups posted today implying these are for sale or replacing some stolen ones.....I don't know but I figured you might Macs?




Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## MACS

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Well this just got interesting.
> I found this pic on one of the Facebook Old School groups posted today implying these are for sale or replacing some stolen ones.....I don't know but I figured you might Macs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


I know the owner of those three amps very well and I can assure you they are NOT for sale . Anyone claiming they are for sale is 100% wrong or a scammer.


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> I know the owner of those three amps very well and I can assure you they are NOT for sale . Anyone claiming they are for sale is 100% wrong or a scammer.


Thought so.
I will see if there's been any additional info to me calling out the poster of this pic.
Thank you.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## MACS

Request this mysterious Facebook person to post a current pic of the three amps with todays newspaper showing in the photograph .


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Request this mysterious Facebook person to post a current pic of the three amps with todays newspaper showing in the photograph .


LOL!


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## MACS

This is where that pic of the three amps originated. From this Italian website it has been stolen and spread all over the internet. 

Click link and scroll down to 4th row up from the bottom
Spin Audio


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## Darth SQ

Ok they have some pics up now that show a F1 that was for sale (don't know when yet) of serial #5 but no link to the sale page. I am waiting for more info. If you want to see all this for yourself Macs, just pm me and I'll send you the link so you can join the fb group. All the posters seem to be quite vague for some reason.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## mikelycka

OMG thanks for this thread


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## subwoofery

Would love to see enthousiast do the same thing for other Ltd Edition amps from other brands (HR from Soundstream for eg.) 

Thanks for this guyz, 
Kelvin


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## superspec

that 6800 and pro 650 are sexy, I've got a 2150.


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## nitrofish72

Here is one that just popped up.


Precision Power Amplifier PPI 2500F1 2500 F1 $15 000 Amplifier Top of The World | eBay


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## soccerguru607

Yes, I sent link to PPI ART COLLECTOR 30 minutes ago.


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## Darth SQ

I curious to see who actually picks up this unicorn of unicorns. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## soccerguru607

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I curious to see who actually picks up this unicorn of unicorns.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Me too! I saved it on my ebay.


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## MACS

What I want to know is, who "misplaces" the line driver on something like that? If you read the description it says it is missing.

My guess is nobody will buy it for anywhere near that price and if they do they are an F'ing idiot.


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## MACS

Here is a pic of the line driver.


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## ParkwayDana

"We" misplaced something like that  been on display multiple times, in and out of storage. Still looking for it actually but we decided to post it for sale since we have been getting offers for the last 5 years. We don't need to sell it , but every PPI Collector been asking about it so there it is  I had an offer for it for 8 grand last year the way it sits without the line driver. We are in no rush to sell it, But now anyone looking for one has access to the Unicorn


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## f#1man

LEGENDARY


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## evo9

ParkwayDana said:


> "We" misplaced something like that  been on display multiple times, in and out of storage. Still looking for it actually but we decided to post it for sale since we have been getting offers for the last 5 years. We don't need to sell it , but every PPI Collector been asking about it so there it is  I had an offer for it for 8 grand last year the way it sits without the line driver. We are in no rush to sell it, But now anyone looking for one has access to the Unicorn



You also forget to note BIG scratch in the P of precision.


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## Darth SQ

Due to the resurfacing of #014 for sale on ebay, the debate on the details regarding the PPI 2500F1 program has started up again and has brought out some of the employees at PPI during that time to post more info.
I now know the names of all the 2500F1 team members and am trying to get permission to post their names here.

Engineering team leader was Stephen Leigh.

Designing engineer of the 2500F1 was Todd Eichenbaum.

There's three more on the team but I need to get an ok before posting their names.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ

Ok I just got permission to post the names given to me by David Gumienny, PPI global training manager.


Stephen Leigh-PPI 2500F1 engineering staff team leader

Todd Eichenbaum-PPI lead engineer and designer of the 2500F1

Keith Harbaugh-PPI engineer

Dan Borzone-PPI engineer

Rick Fix-PPI engineer/fabricator


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## rton20s

Very cool Bret. I'm sure many others appreciate your efforts on this. I'm always interested in the history of car audio. Especially something as unique as these amps.

Edit...

I'm not sure if you'll be doing a "where are they now?" but google yields some pretty interesting results for those who aren't aware of what else these guys went on to do.


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## starboy869

I sold my PASS amps to a fellow in Japan. I believe he had a few 2500f1... His collection OMG!!! probably into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.


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## Darth SQ

Another one of these has surfaced on FB in the OSS group.
I am trying to obtain the serial# now.
Owner said he had to dig the beast out to share implying it's been buried somewhere in his possession for awhile now.
More to come..........


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## MACS

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Another one of these has surfaced on FB in the OSS group.
> I am trying to obtain the serial# now.
> Owner said he had to dig the beast out to share implying it's been buried somewhere in his possession for awhile now.
> More to come..........
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Any updates? The suspense is killing me


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## Darth SQ

MACS said:


> Any updates? The suspense is killing me


Nothing but crickets.
But after looking closer at the pic I believe it's the same one as that shop's that was up for sale and missing the line driver since it to was missing from the pic.
Is it me or are most of the owners of these a little flaky? 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## PPI_GUY

It's been several months, just curious if there have been any developments or news concerning 2500F1's? Will we ever get the opportunity to actually hear one of these amazing pieces of car audio history in the environment they were intended? 
Could probably sell tickets! LOL!


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## Darth SQ

Macs, Danny came into the PPI FB group page and hinted he's selling his 2500F1 serial# 12.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## jdurbin

Thought I would mention that serial #0024 is available on eBay now. Complete with case, line driver, in-dash display module. It's being sold by the charitable foundation that Directed & Sound United created, Forte for Children, so the proceeds are going to a good cause - local groups that support various programs for disadvantage kids, etc. Will be shipped by Directed to the winning bidder. 

This one was moved to Vista at some point, could have been when the remaining PPI engineers were relocated here or prior to that when the big ADST facility was closed down. It was stored in the engineering dept here for years before being donated to the foundation recently. It's the real deal... hopefully will find its way to a true enthusiast that can enjoy it for what it is and not spend the next ten years in storage. 

John


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## jdurbin

Just wanted to add that it appears this is the second serial #24 known - the owner of a 2500F1 purchased back in '98 with that serial confirmed that he still has that one in his possession. Not sure what that means in terms of the pedigree for the one listed for our charity, likely just means serialization was not as tight as one would hope - given what the company was going through at the time, probably should not come as a surprise. 

John


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## Darth SQ

jdurbin said:


> Just wanted to add that it appears this is the second serial #24 known - the owner of a 2500F1 purchased back in '98 with that serial confirmed that he still has that one in his possession. Not sure what that means in terms of the pedigree for the one listed for our charity, likely just means serialization was not as tight as one would hope - given what the company was going through at the time, probably should not come as a surprise.
> 
> John


It means this is one from the second batch of F1s that were made years later by one of the new PPI owners; not the original run.
What does it mean regarding it's value who knows.
Hope it does well for your charity's sake.


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## Darth SQ

Also if you're interested in reaching the right people that are not only obsessed with collecting PPI but also have the deep pockets to buy this piece, you want to join this FB group and post your knowledge of it.
They're already talking about it in there. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/precisionpower/


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## jdurbin

Thanks for that feedback... frankly I have been trying to stay out of the speculation on history on these. Mostly that's because as a Directed guy I didn't work in either of the Phoenix locations (big facility or engineering offices later), but I did serve as product manager on the business end of things for the three ADST brands from mid-2001 (started several months after the acquisition) thru 2005 when another guy here took over. 

I don't have any awareness of these amps being built after our purchase, and for sure we never carried them on our books as Directed inventory - could not have done that without me knowing, as I was the gateway for all audio SKU's getting into the accounting system here. If the guys in the team in Phoenix did build some 2500F1 after we took over in late 2000, it's news to me. I'd be much more inclined to believe that some additional units had been built during the interim under ADST management (1998 - 2000) and were already sitting in the building at the time we took control of it. But, I could be wrong. 

Appreciate the Facebook link, but probably won't jump in over there - I don't do FB to start with, and am really just trying to help out the charity at this point. I do also have a bunch of PPI gear in my own car but these days if I spend any time online talking about gear, it's vintage home audio equipment. 


John


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