# Audible Physics NZ3/AMT [Review in progress]



## oca123

Hi all,

Before I start, I would like to state that I am in no way affiliated with Audible Physics or Mark Brooks, and that I paid for these speakers, just like a normal customer would.

Now with that said. A forum member (IBCivic) suggested I look into these as we were discussing my front stage over PM. How can you *NOT* trust a guy who has the letters *IB* in his username? Clearly, he is enlightened. 

I researched these speakers briefly and found next to nothing. No wonder... they had not been released yet.

So I PM'ed Mark Brooks, and we chatted back and forth. He's very nice, helpful, and just a straight up guy. He let me purchase a pair of these, and agreed to ship them to me a little bit ahead of the actual release date.

I was supposed to install them in my A-Pillars today, and write a full review, however work got in the way, and I ran out of time. So, for now, I am posting pictures of the speakers only, and I will add on to this thread over the weekend.

In my review, which I hope to finish over the weekend, I will try to include:

- Better pictures of the speakers and AMTs
- A description of the product, and some information about the AMTs - what they are, how to use them, etc.
- Frequency response, free-air/gated.
- A couple pictures of the install process, and description of the testing environment (amps, etc.)
- A subjective listening review
- Some actual in-car frequency response graphs, with and without the AMT.

Unfortunately, I took the woofer tester out of my parts-express cart at the last second before placing my last order there. If someone local to me has one, PM me and I will gladly invite you over so we can test these things.

This is going to be my first speaker review, so I expect you to be forgiving of my mistakes, and to constructively let me know if I do anything improperly, or if I can improve on any aspects of this review.

** I hope a moderator can edit this topic's title once review is complete **

Part of the reason I am posting this ahead of doing the actual review, is because now, I have committed to doing this review in front of all of you, lowering the chances of me procrastinating and never doing the review from 90% to somewhere in the single digits.

Scroll down a little for some preliminary photos.

Thanks for looking, and check back soon!


----------



## rugdnit

WOW! Those look killer! I am looking forward to your review!


----------



## Sulley

Sub'd for this one. I got a feeling I might be buying a set of these myself lol. 

Looking forward to your review.


Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


----------



## oca123

Well, I already misplaced one of the AMTs. They are TINY. 
I am going to make copies of the small plastic "airbag" inserts, then I will flush-mount the AMTs in them.
I was about to put ribbon tweeters in my pillars this weekend, and decided on the NZ3/AMTs at the last minute.
I might not be able to install them until tomorrow, because I am also redoing my amp rack, since my trunk's layout just changed after I put two 15s in IB.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Nice choice. I heard this set in Atlanta and was amazed. When Mark told me about them way before anyone else knew about them I was trying to wrap my head around how that little ribbon didn't even need a crossover and how it worked with the midrange. Looking forward to hearing your review. Let's just hope these little gems don't end up like the X-Soul2 set which is apparently never going to be made again unless the designer changes his mind. While I'm very much affiliated with Audible Physics my first impressions of this set installed and tuned were completely unbiased. This really is the real deal and from what I've heard something no one has ever done before.


----------



## oca123

Found the AMT... I guess I tucked it nicely in the glovebox last night.
I'm going back downstairs to work on that amp rack. The pillars might take a little while, because I need to unwrap them, carefully cut out my previous pods, and start from scratch. This is what I need to remove before I can build new pods:








I'm a little sad, since these were the first pillars I ever made. I will make sure I say a prayer before I cut them off with a circular saw and make sure there's nothing of them left over with a sander. amen.


----------



## fish

Both of those speakers look sweet! Can't wait to read your review.

Since there is some info on these AMTs prior to their release date can anyone add any comments to what they've read, heard, or seen?


----------



## fish

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Nice choice. I heard this set in Atlanta and was amazed. When Mark told me about them way before anyone else knew about them I was trying to wrap my head around how that little ribbon didn't even need a crossover and how it worked with the midrange.



No crossover... do what?


----------



## Sulley

When I was talkin to Mark on the phone he said there is no crossover, just wire it in parallel and mount it relatively close. 
Interested in seeing how well it works.

Anybody know what MSRP is?


Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Ok I will shed a little light on the workings of the AMT.

First that should not be thought in the sense of a standard tweeter. 

AMT in my terms is Air Motion *Transducer*. Yes yes I know a tweeter is a transducer , but the AMT is more of Ambiance Transducer. For that fact i have be thinking of changing the Name to AAT, *Air Ambiance Transducer*. it is not an upstage tweeter like the CDT unit.

The way it works, is you simply hook the AMT in parallel with the Nz3-A. No passive crossover or caps need. Why you may ask, well it Because of its natural roll off starting around 19khz, so no cap or crossover are need. 

It is simply there to create that what many call that Air sound on the top end that a large cone can not reproduce as well as some dome. But no wide-band can reproduce that Air sound or that last little what is called sparkle as well as a small dome and manufacturer says other wise they are simply selling marketing hype! Now I not saying wide-band can not reproduce highs as there are many that does it extremely well. I sell a few that can do it and no tweeter is need. 

So what you get with the Nz3-A/AMT is the best of both worlds the dynamics of the large cone up top and the speed/Air/sparkle of the AMT.

So the to recap they are designed to work together, they are basically one unit just in two pieces. If my degrading memory serve me right, the first of it kind for mobile audio.

*MSRP:* is set at $540 plus shipping, but they is *MSRP* who pays MSRP


----------



## Mindcrime

Ok, just in time... I want to give these a try! I'm glad I didn't do my pillars yet so when can us average joes get our hands on them?


----------



## thehatedguy

I might would change the name if it isn't like Dr. Heil's Air Motion Transformer...it doesn't look like any AMTs that I have seen.

No crossover and a natural roll off seems like maybe a piezo element maybe.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Mindcrime said:


> Ok, just in time... I want to give these a try! I'm glad I didn't do my pillars yet so when can us average joes get our hands on them?


You have a PM


----------



## JoeHemi57

Very interesting any other new products coming out too?


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

thehatedguy said:


> I might would change the name if it isn't like Dr. Heil's Air Motion Transformer...it doesn't look like any AMTs that I have seen.
> 
> No crossover and a natural roll off seems like maybe a piezo element maybe.



Well I am sure you read your share of White papers on the design of both as have I. So as you know there are more then one way to skin a Cat.



JoeHemi57 said:


> Very interesting any other new products coming out too?


Yes sir the New Arian 7" Ultra Wide-Band Mid/bass


----------



## [email protected]

Where can one go to see your offerings and info on the new products?


----------



## Guest

Fellows the Naz and Arian drivers are fantastic... I'm sure Mark will post more info once everything is ready...


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

BeatsDownLow said:


> Where can one go to see your offerings and info on the new products?


As SQ MDX said I will be posting and releasing info very soon. Just test and more test in just about every way I can so can simply no exactly how that react in as many usages as I can. Different amps, Different Door sizes, IB, enclosed, Low wattage, High wattage, crossed low with low wattage, crossed low with high wattage, etc etc.... you get the picture.

I just like when i am ask how does it work with this or in this way, I can say i tested it and it will work or not work and not have to say it should work. Are have you relying on the specs. I like real world testing, pushing them to the braking point.


----------



## bertholomey

Looking forward to this review..... I heard the set in Atlanta as well..... I concur with Chris.... They sound fantastic to my ears. 

A great solution... especially for guys and gals who have been running a 2 way front stage... and might be wondering if they could a bit more out of their 6.5's and a bit more midrange sound verses what the 2 way was giving... and not add an additional 2 channels of amplification.


----------



## oca123

Sorry guys... a few days ago, I switched subwoofer setups and went IB, and I pulled everything out of the trunk, so I spent most of the day working on my new amp rack. Something unexpected (air suspension stuff) in the tire well threw off my entire plan and I had to come up with a different layout and make some sacrifices.

I realized about 10 minutes before Home Depot closed that I was out of Bondo. I managed to send someone there to get me some, so, if my wife does not object, I am going to start working on these pillars... otherwise, tomorrow it is.


----------



## Mindcrime

What are you installing them in?


----------



## fish

Mindcrime said:


> What are you installing them in?


Bentley


----------



## piyush7243

Looks like a really nice concept. Complete Set pics would really be welcome


----------



## thehatedguy

I don't understand how they are considered AMTs. Is the diaphram pleated?


----------



## oca123

They are not "Air Motion Transformers" as patented by Heil. I think Mark said he was going to rename them.
I was able to get rid of my wife for the rest of the day just now. I'll check back later


----------



## JayinMI

fish said:


> Bentley


Must be nice. lol

Jay


----------



## Lance_S

Have a set on the way, looking forward to them.


----------



## Mindcrime

Nice, mine should be on the way tomorrow as well, along with the Arian mid bass drivers.... Now if I could make up my mind on the rest of the system I would be in good shape..lol


----------



## hippopotamus

does the AAT also works well with AR3K ?
or is it just for the NZ3 unit ?

i think this is what i'm looking for.. a small AMT(AAT) tweeters to create just about the top end sparkle for my AR3K.
I wonder if they're gonna be available in my country tho'...


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

First I want to say thank you guys for all your interest and support. 

Next the Name of the driver since I will be Release info on Wednesday is now and will forever be Nz3-A/AT (Ambiance Transducer).

Also Glad oca123 point it as I just looked in my PDF the specs where on cutout and OD. Working at 4am i cut and paste the wrong specs from another driver I have been playing with. But all is good. now.

As for the AT, I current starting to test it with some of my other drivers, I will let you know how it goes, but issue is the AT is current not available as a stand alone unit. It was design to work with the Nz3-A.


----------



## oca123

OK, so I realized that I shouldnt have commited to reviewing these, since basically I was just starting my system over from scratch. I worked on the car some today, and I am at least a week away from being able to put these in the pillars, with everything else being perfect.

I had to satisfy my curiosity though... looking at these speakers for 4 days in a row was too tempting.

I built a new ramp rack over the weekend, but I was not done with labeling/wiring everything, however I threw it in the trunk, and used some electrical tape to connect everything up and hold it all together for now.
Then I took the NZ3s, and swapped them with the Focal KRX3s, since they are roughly the same size (little more width in the back to accommodate the ferrite magnets of the NZ3s) and ran some wires to connect the AATs in parallel. I used some double sided tape and glued the AATs to the pillars, fired up some music, and listened carefully.


These sound A TON better than the KRX3s. It's hard to believe there are no tweeters.
The AMTs (now officially called AATs) provide that top-end "fairy dust" sparkle that would otherwise be missing. They play 16Khz and up. At these frequencies, time alignment doesn't matter as much as frequency response, so they can be placed mostly anywhere. It sounds like they would work well pointed towards the windshield, then EQ'ed down a little via DSP.

I'm not sure what else to say at this point. I want to measure their F/R on a baffle, but that would be unfair since Mark hasn't even had the chance to post his official specs on these yet. I think I will wait until then.

For those of you who are considering ordering this set, and can spare the cash, I say go ahead. They sound very detailed, are taking the enormous amount of power that they have on tap nicely, and as I turned the volume up, my ears begged me to stop before I was able to detect compression or distortion. The Widebander/AAT setup is interesting and if anything, if you're a hobbyist, you're going to have to buy these just to try it.

Some of you who are EEs will figure out real quick how/what these AATs are, and you might even want to facepalm yourself.... it's clever, and it works.

I will be posting again in a few days once I have had some more listening time, since they are brand new and my ears need to get used to them, and they need to break in a little.

A couple of negative points I should mention at this point is that even though these look great, they show dirt right away due to their black glossy cone. Also, they don't match my interior at all, but that's not related to their performance. They didn't come with any mounting hardware. No screws. No big deal, but know this ahead of time so you can have screws ready.... You don't want to end up taking apart an older router to get 8 mounting screws off its PCB like I did 

To sum it up, at this point, I am very happy with them and cannot wait until I get to aim them and install them properly.

I thought I took a bunch of good pictures, but I guess all of them came out too dark or blurry, due to poor lighting conditions. This is the only one that came out OK:

[From left to right: Focal KRX3, AP NZ3, Focal TN53k, Tang Band W4-1337SD] and the NZ3 is held up by an old school Canton Mid... M15.13.


----------



## wdemetrius1

Great thread!!! I'm looking forward to more of your impressions.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

oca123 said:


> OK, so I realized that I shouldnt have commited to reviewing these while basically I was just starting my system over from scratch. I worked on the car some today, and I am at least a week away from being able to put these in the pillars, with everything else being perfect.
> 
> I had to satisfy my curiosity though... looking at these speakers for 4 days in a row was too tempting.
> 
> I built a new ramp rack over the weekend, but I was not done with labeling/wiring everything, however I threw it in the trunk, and used some electrical tape to connect everything up and hold it all together for now.
> Then I took the NZ3s, and swapped them with the Focal KRX3s, since they are roughly the same size (little more width in the back to accomodate the ferrite magnets of the NZ3s) and ran some wires to connect the AMTs in parallel. I used some double sided tape and glued the AMTs to the pillars, fired up some music, and listened carefully.
> 
> 
> These sound A TON better than the KRX3s. It's hard to believe there are no tweeters.
> The "AMTs" (until Mark decides what he wants to call them) provide that top-end "fairy dust" sparkle that would otherwise be missing. They play 16Khz and up. At these frequencies, time alignment doesn't matter as much as frequency response, so they can be placed mostly anywhere. It sounds like they would work well pointed towards the windshield, then EQ'ed down a little via DSP.
> 
> I'm not sure what else to say at this point. I want to measure their F/R on a baffle, but that would be unfair since Mark hasn't even had the chance to post his official specs on these yet. I think I will wait until then.
> 
> For those of you who are considering order them and can spare the cash, I saw go ahead. They sound very detailed, are taking the enormous amount of power that they have on tap nicely, and as I turned the volume up, my ears begged me to stop before I was able to detect compression or distortion.
> 
> I know they're new speakers though, so I will be posting again in a few days once I have had some more listening time.
> 
> To sum it up though, at this point, I am very happy with them and cannot wait until I get to aim them and install them properly.
> 
> I have to say that even though these look great, they show dirt right away due to their black glossy cone. Also, they don't match my interior at all, but that's not related to its performance.
> I wish it would have come with some screws. Maybe its just my version, because I received it early.
> 
> I thought I took a bunch of good pictures, but I guess all of them came out too dark or blurry, due to poor lighting conditions. This is the only one that came out OK:
> 
> [From left to right: Focal KRX3, AP NZ3, Focal TN53k, Tang Band W4-1337SD] and the NZ3 is held up by an old school Canton Mid... M15.13.


Nice I am glad you like them so fare!

As for the Name, is see the post above yours, Nz3-A/AT (Ambiance Transducer)


----------



## oca123

Yeah, I cleaned up my post and replaced AMT with AAT.
Here are some cutout templates I made for the NZ3 and the AATs. I am lazy and I don't like measuring, so I use this technique as much as I can to get very accurate cuts and fast.
Print out the template, making sure that you do not check any "scale to fit" or any option that will resize the resulting print. Using scissors or a blade, roughly cut around one of the templates. Spray some glue on the MDF or whatever material you're going to use, glue the template, make sure its flat and cut away.
It works very well on MDF with regular paper. Sometimes for more complicated designs I use see-through paper. For some reason the glue makes it "fuse" with the MDF and even when cutting using a rough blade, the template sticks to the wood, like it was directly printed on it.

The AAT cutout is a little on the tight side so you can make them fit flush in place. I made 4 of each, cause....*it's better to have and not need, than to need and not have!* (... DUH!!!!)


----------



## Winno

I'm excited about getting a set of these. Will be flying the AP flag in Australia.


----------



## IBcivic

oca123 said:


> These sound A TON better than the KRX3s


Somehow I knew Audible Physics drivers would fill the bill


----------



## oca123

OK, sorry Mark, but I think I figured out your trick.
Please release the fairy immediately. It is a crime to capture and hold fairies, and exploiting fairies for the purpose of stealing their fairy dust and sprinkling it on speakers is despicable.
... It's 4:30am... I was listening to music in my car for 4h straight... moving the speakers around... I don't get it... they don't look super nice, the basket isn't even exactly straight... yet... they sound fabulous... I don't know if they sound transparent in my car, but they have a very distinct sound that is very articulate, clear, and convincing.
What's funny is that IB subs play pretty clean up high, so you could run a pair of these and two 15s.... hahaha.
This whole time, the AATs were disconnected.... tomorrow, I'm going to have a 2nd session, this time with the AATs installed...

Seriously though Mark, release the fairy.


----------



## oca123

IBcivic said:


> Somehow I knew Audible Physics drivers would fill the bill


They fit more than just one bill  hahaha
I can't wait to get the peerless now.


----------



## hippopotamus

can't wait to get my hands on these...


----------



## Lorin

A bit off topic, but somewhat related. Mark, any chance that with the newer widebanders gaining popularity that you might consider offering grills? I have the trinity speakers and would love a reasonable alternative for a grill to cover these without having to make my own.


----------



## Sulley

oca123 said:


> ...so you could run a pair of these and two 15s


What crossover are you using for the NZ3's?


Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


----------



## chevbowtie22

Amazing. I'm also looking forward to how this review pans out.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Mark has a winner with this set. Hope they aren't just a limited edition. I need to see if I can fit them. I think I remember him saying the 3" is the same outer and mounting depth as the Trinity but could be wrong. I might have to see if anyone has a blown Trinity or other AP driver on the same platform I can borrow for fitment testing. I'd return it to the owner unharmed. Being on the edge of fitting and not fitting just has me hesitant to order a set.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Mark has a winner with this set. Hope they aren't just a limited edition. I need to see if I can fit them. I think I remember him saying the 3" is the same outer and mounting depth as the Trinity but could be wrong. I might have to see if anyone has a blown Trinity or other AP driver on the same platform I can borrow for fitment testing. I'd return it to the owner unharmed. Being on the edge of fitting and not fitting just has me hesitant to order a set.


Not a limit edition. 

for fit use the great pdf temple oca123 posted.


----------



## JayinMI

Do these use the same basket as the Trinity/FR88EX/ARK3?

Jay


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

JayinMI said:


> Do these use the same basket as the Trinity/FR88EX/ARK3?
> 
> Jay


yes sir they do.

Also I missed post above about grilles. You have no idea i have been looking for a good able grille to produce for these. Still am.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Anyone else having issues opening up the pdf?


----------



## oca123

Which PDF? The driver specs, or the one I made? I can save it a different way, if you like.


----------



## oca123

So if it's not a limited edition, how many of them are you going to make? Surely your pockets are not bottomless, so you only had a certain # of them manufactured for now?

I'm surprised about the dispersion pattern of these considering the "cone" is a lot flatter than most 3 inch drivers I've seen.


----------



## oca123

So if it's not a limited edition, how many of them are you going to make? Surely your pockets are not bottomless, so you only had a certain # of them manufactured for now?

I'm surprised about the dispersion pattern of these considering the "cone" is a lot flatter than most 3 inch drivers I've seen.


----------



## Notloudenuf

oca123 said:


> OK, sorry Mark, but I think I figured out your trick.
> Please release the fairy immediately. It is a crime to capture and hold fairies, and exploiting fairies for the purpose of stealing their fairy dust and sprinkling it on speakers is despicable.
> 
> Seriously though Mark, release the fairy.


Dangit now I have to buy fairy dust? I JUST paid off my VBA deposit.


----------



## oca123

stockley.rod said:


> What crossover are you using for the NZ3's?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


I was kidding about crossing over to a pair of 15s. I mean, I did it, but I dont recommend it at high volumes. What I meant is that you can do it and the midbass "hole" isn't as obvious, but that's largely due to the abilty of IB subs to play up high
I think the sweet spot for these here is 350Hz/24db but it depends on whether the enclosure is vented, etc.
I'm going to build actual pillars for it, going to start now, shooting for 0.75liters sealed, if not I will vent them into the dash, or try to do some kind of ghetto aperiodic enclosure.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

oca123 said:


> So if it's not a limited edition, how many of them are you going to make? Surely your pockets are not bottomless, so you only had a certain # of them manufactured for now?
> 
> I'm surprised about the dispersion pattern of these considering the "cone" is a lot flatter than most 3 inch drivers I've seen.


Not a limit edition means that there will be more of them coming. I have a few limit edition drivers once all sold not more was produce. The Nz3-A will continue to be produce in it current form until a better replacement/new model is designed.


----------



## Sulley

oca123 said:


> I was kidding about crossing over to a pair of 15s. I mean, I did it, but I dont recommend it at high volumes. What I meant is that you can do it and the midbass "hole" isn't as obvious, but that's largely due to the abilty of IB subs to play up high
> I think the sweet spot for these here is 350Hz/24db but it depends on whether the enclosure is vented, etc.
> I'm going to build actual pillars for it, going to start now, shooting for 0.75liters sealed, if not I will vent them into the dash, or try to do some kind of ghetto aperiodic enclosure.


Haha I knew you where joking, I was just wonder how low you had then crossed over. Have you tried them down as far as 250hz? 


Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


----------



## oca123

stockley.rod said:


> Haha I knew you where joking, I was just wonder how low you had then crossed over. Have you tried them down as far as 250hz?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


Yes. I will not comment on what that sounds like, as it is very dependent on enclosure type and size, and is subjective anyway. I would post measurements, but I'd rather spend the time building real pods for these. When I listened to them yesterday, my enclosures were not matched (diff. sizes left and right) and leaky.
I will tell you this: it is definitely a beefy driver, but remember that it's still only 3'', and you can't break the laws of physics 

I'm going to work on the pillars this afternoon. If I get them right, I'll try diff. xover points and whatnot.


----------



## IBcivic

oca123 said:


> They fit more than just one bill  hahaha
> I can't wait to get the peerless now.


:blush: Appologies for the delay, man. :blush:
My employer often kidnaps me for weeks at a time


----------



## oca123

IBcivic said:


> :blush: Appologies for the delay, man. :blush:
> My employer often kidnaps me for weeks at a time


Do you travel for work? Are you the guy that installs strapping machines in warehouses?

I have no idea how, but one of my midbasses (ID XS69) was not working out of nowhere... not sure what happened, they weren't even hooked up for a long time...
It's strange because the DC resistance is normal, coil looks fine, but the cone itself seems to be either too high or too low... not sure... like it moved too far, the glue melted then flash-dried, and now its stuck in some weird position... very strange. i wonder if ID will warranty that.

Anyway, I need the peerless bad now  I also ordered a pair of some beyma pro audio midbass to try out in my doors, will see.


----------



## oca123

Oh and to stay on topic... still loving the NZ3s, I tried to work on pods today, but I'm still working on aiming (translation: spent hours listening to music again, forgot that I was supposed to make pillars)


----------



## Guest

Looking forward to watching this install progress...


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

oca123 said:


> Do you travel for work? Are you the guy that installs strapping machines in warehouses?
> 
> I have no idea how, but one of my midbasses (ID XS69) was not working out of nowhere... not sure what happened, they weren't even hooked up for a long time...
> It's strange because the DC resistance is normal, coil looks fine, but the cone itself seems to be either too high or too low... not sure... like it moved too far, the glue melted then flash-dried, and now its stuck in some weird position... very strange. i wonder if ID will warranty that.
> 
> Anyway, I need the peerless bad now  I also ordered a pair of some beyma pro audio midbass to try out in my doors, will see.


Mid-bass is Called the Arian :blush: HINT:laugh:


----------



## tyroneshoes

very interested in this and wonder if they would work out in dash locations

Did you mention dimensions yet?


----------



## hippopotamus

Audible Physics said:


> Mid-bass is Called the Arian :blush: HINT:laugh:


why not Nz6A ? hwkwkwkwk..

like ar duo or xr duo.. so there will be Nz duo ?


----------



## oca123

Audible Physics said:


> Mid-bass is Called the Arian :blush: HINT:laugh:


Sprinkle some fairy dust on it, and make it 8'', then I'll consider it.

EDIT: Boy does that sound wrong in so many ways


----------



## Mindcrime

oca123 said:


> Sprinkle some fairy dust on it, and make it 8'', then I'll consider it.
> 
> EDIT: Boy does that sound wrong in so many ways


Lmfao! Now that is wrong on so many levels! 


Still cleaning up the coffee


----------



## papasin

hippopotamus said:


> why not Nz6A ? hwkwkwkwk..
> 
> like ar duo or xr duo.. so there will be Nz duo ?


NZA Duo = Nz3-A/AT + Arians


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

papasin said:


> NZA Duo = Nz3-A/AT + Arians


What he said.


----------



## Guest

LOL...


----------



## Lorin

Curious as to how the arian \ nz combo compares to previous offerings? I have the ebony & trinity combo and am trying to imagine how the new offerings differ from the ones I currently have? Any comments? How about some grills for the widebanders?


----------



## bmiller1

Lorin said:


> How about some grills for the widebanders?


I think Mark said he is still looking for an acceptable product.

OP, thanks for this thread. The new "duo" mentioned has me considering a potential change. Sounds like a great product.


----------



## james2266

oca123 said:


> Sprinkle some fairy dust on it, and make it 8'', then I'll consider it.
> 
> EDIT: Boy does that sound wrong in so many ways


My thoughts too although i would not have put it that way at all. I am looking for new midbasses and want something at least 8 inches in diameter. I am still trying to decide which to go with to get the sound I crave and fit the vehicle with keeping it a stock look.

Mark has been such a help in so many ways over the last week, I would not hesitate to throw my money his way for midbasses if he had what I needed (whenever I find out what that may be). Great guy and I can't wait for my amp to get here


----------



## IBcivic

oca123 said:


> Sprinkle some fairy dust on it, and make it 8'', then I'll consider it.
> 
> EDIT: Boy does that sound wrong in so many ways


....:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Trop drole!


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Lorin said:


> Curious as to how the arian \ nz combo compares to previous offerings? I have the ebony & trinity combo and am trying to imagine how the new offerings differ from the ones I currently have? Any comments? How about some grills for the widebanders?


The ET Arrangement is a great combo. Still one of my favorite of any combo I have used, my product or another.

The XR and AR Duo was the next level of that Arrangement. The XR/AR/BeM 3 design was ust little monsters. And those two Duo's could do just about anything you asked of them. But I would just set back and listen and read and some still said a wide band just can not give you that Airy and sparkle as some call it, at the very top. I for one agreed with that, as I said many times. 

*We could not beat the laws of physics, but we could be up one helluva fight.* :laugh:

So I relayed this to my designer and the mad scientist he is, he seem to have taken this as a challenge. To do what we wanted and keep the price point down, do to the amazingly crazy leap in the price of neo, not to mention high grade neo and the XR/AR/BeM used a lot of High grade Neo in the motor. 

So Ok first up is a high grade ferrite motor to keep cost down. So the more R&D and technology could go into very important this such as the High grade voice coil from way of Denmark. Then you have the amazing *Anodized Magnesium Alloy cone with a Titanium Dust Cap.* This became what you see in the Nz3-A. This super wide-band alone has more top-end info then any other wide-band i have seen or used or heard. So now it was tweeter like, but He did not stop there. 

Now we had tweeter like detail and sparkle, but something is missing. O wait *Ambiance*, that Airy sound as many like to call it. So he had a meeting of the minds and what came out of that was a first for car audio the Audible Physics Ambiance Transducer. Not only did they produce a Transducer that adds that Air we wanted, they designed so it simply needed no passive units or caps. 

They are basically one unit, separated at birth. You simply wire them in parallel and your done, wait your amps still see the 4 ohm load your desire. So you have it, the Nz3-A/AT Super Wide-Band Mid/High Transducer; The next step in Wide-band evolution.

The Arian was a lot simpler. We had a 6.5" that plays a like 7" driver in the Ebony/Soul design do to thier over sized cones. We also had the Ultra Wide-Band High Resolution Mid/Bass transducer in the XR6.5M.

So I simply wanted one driver that could do both, but not just do it but do it as a very high level. Ok mis-statement. it was not that simple. As the Magnesium Alloy cone on the Arian is an amazing cone and lot of R&D went into its production. This was not easy to do as it need to still be able to hold the title of Ultra Wide-Band Mid/Bass Transducer. With more cone area over the XR6.5M more motor had to be used so the large 100mm motor was called on. Even the wood phase plug played a key part. 

The results was what I asked for the XR6.5M on muscle enhancers. With that much cone area and a sensitivity that comes in right at 90dbs 1w/1m and 93.5 2.83v/1m and an Fs of 59hz, the Arian is a do it all Transducer and do it all at a very high level.

*So the answer is the question NzA Duo is at least to step above the great Trinity/Ebony arrangement.* 

Sorry so long winded oca123 and didn't mean to take up to much space in your thread with all my well..... Ok call it what it is marketing, by way of answering a question :laugh::blush:

And yes we are working on grilles. We want CNC Aluminium grilles, but that was just not cost effective so something is in the works. How fare out i can not say. I will now as soon as we get a test sample.


----------



## Lorin

Thank you Mark, for the explanation. Without a web site, it is hard to glean any of the information you presented (so well) above. Without anything to read, specs to look at, it is easy to dismiss new products as fairy dust until they arrive on scene. I am still happy with my Ebony and trinity combo (did add a tweeter as well), just wondering out loud. Put me down for the front of the line "when" you source a solid grill. Thank you.


----------



## thehatedguy

Sure they sound great Mark, and I bet they are leaps and bounds better than the FR88s I had a while back.


----------



## oca123

hi guys,

Sorry been busy with work and stuff. I'm still trying to aim these right.

Also I spent probably 1h trying to make a nice flush cutout to put the AATs. I ended up vacuum-sealing the AATs, then putting that into the cutout and filling it with bondo. it's curing now, but i think it will work.
Now is the time i wish i had one of them 3d printers..... does anyone here have one? How strong/heavy/solid are the resulting parts? Could you make speaker rings with them?
hmmmm at $1000, I guess if I started selling custom parts on here, it would pay for itself quick, and the wife wouldn't be able to *****... cause a 3d printer is fairly large, large enough that you can't hide it ;-)


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

thehatedguy said:


> Sure they sound great Mark, and I bet they are leaps and bounds better than the FR88s I had a while back.


The Fr88 you had where more then likely the founket built units and not the ones that was built by us. 

They should not even be mention in the same sentence.


----------



## Lance_S

thehatedguy said:


> Sure they sound great Mark, and I bet they are leaps and bounds better than the FR88s I had a while back.


I had the special "mark" version of the fr88's. I will be able to give you a comparison when I get my new drivers from mark.


----------



## Lance_S

Mark and I were talking about the grills in an early conversation. He said that he had taped the tweets to the outside of the grill face and it works extremely well. I thought that was a great idea. He also said that you could place them anywhere within about a 6 inch radius of the cone itself. But to keep things simple it would be nice to have a grill and like he said, take them to the face of it right in the center. That way there is no discussion about time alignment. It also makes mounting a breeze. I am using 4 inch PVC for mounting, at least this is what I used the marks version of the fr88's.


----------



## SynRG

Nice work.

Two interesting builds going on with these.

Double the vicarious pleasure...

I look forward to hearing these units.


----------



## thehatedguy

Mark, I think mine came from you...I think, could be wrong. Way back when you had all of those leftovers.

But is there any decoding of the new model numbers? I get the AAT, but been scratching my head at the nz part of the nz3.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Lance_S said:


> Mark and I were talking about the grills in an early conversation. He said that he had taped the tweets to the outside of the grill face and it works extremely well. I thought that was a great idea. He also said that you could place them anywhere within about a 6 inch radius of the cone itself. But to keep things simple it would be nice to have a grill and like he said, take them to the face of it right in the center. That way there is no discussion about time alignment. It also makes mounting a breeze. I am using 4 inch PVC for mounting, at least this is what I used the marks version of the fr88's.


Lance to the inside of the grille so that it can only be seen thru the grill and not in plan sight. Work wonderful.


----------



## Lance_S

Mark,

Nice, makes sense. Clean too. Thanks.


----------



## oca123

Lance_S said:


> But to keep things simple it would be nice to have a grill and like he said, take them to the face of it right in the center. That way there is no discussion about time alignment. It also makes mounting a breeze. I am using 4 inch PVC for mounting, at least this is what I used the marks version of the fr88's


and here i am making templates and cutting circles when i could be using PVC.. :facepalm:

I'm not sure time alignment is critical at the frequencies these AATs are designed to reproduce

I am going to the socal meet on saturday, so that will give the NZ3/AAT a chance to shine, and I know a few people with way better trained ears than mine will be able to comment on their performance.


----------



## Lance_S

SynRG said:


> Nice work.
> 
> Two interesting builds going on with these.
> 
> Double the vicarious pleasure...
> 
> I look forward to hearing these units.


I don't want to hijack the thread, I can certainly start a second. Mine is a bit different in that, with the previous AP FR88's I would get very distinct directionality from them when they were mounted up high. I could tell right where the music was coming from. The FR88's also suffered when they were off axis. Of course they didnt perform like the AR driver that Mark produced but they were leaps and bounds ahead of a stock Trinity FR88. 

The problem was when they were up in the doors or in the sills, I knew right where they were. The only way I could get them to disappear and be on axis so I wouldn't loose the top end was to put them in the kicks, thus the custom kick install. 

When on axis in the kicks they were excellent. My stage was up in the windshield, I could move it back and forth with TA and their location dissapeared. I was extremely happy with the install location. 

I will be anxious to hear the new drivers in the kick location. I will also plan on mounting them up high in the door and in the pillars to give them a listen there as well. 

I still think in most situations an on axis placement that is farther away is better but with the new mini tweets on these drivers, being on axis to reduce the loss o the highs is obviously less important.


----------



## Lance_S

oca123 said:


> and here i am making templates and cutting circles when i could be using PVC.. :facepalm:
> 
> I'm not sure time alignment is critical at the frequencies these AATs are designed to reproduce
> 
> I am going to the socal meet on saturday, so that will give the NZ3/AAT a chance to shine, and I know a few people with way better trained ears than mine will be able to comment on their performance.


The nice thing about using the PVC is that the drivers fit perfect, you can screw to the flange that is already built into the PVC pipe and you can cut the face at any angle. The edge also protrudes past the driver so if someone puts there foot on it (like when they are in the kicks) they won't damage the driver, they protruding ring gives it protection and if you want, you can stretch some speaker grill over the face to make them disappear from view, especially if you put them up high in the door or sills.


----------



## papasin

Just wondering if there are any concerns of the driver breathing with the PVC approach.

EDIT: Otherwise, the PVC idea is fantastic and looks great.


----------



## Lance_S

papasin said:


> Just wondering if there are any concerns of the driver breathing with the PVC approach.


Well, considering you can seal them in a .75 liter enclosure I would think they would be fine in the pipe. Mine weren't sealed, they were infinite baffle as are most drivers in car audio, save for subs.


----------



## papasin

Lance_S said:


> Well, considering you can seal them in a .75 liter enclosure I would think they would be fine in the pipe. Mine weren't sealed, they were infinite baffle as are most drivers in car audio, save for subs.


Thanks! Just wondering with regard to the sides actually but maybe that is more of an issue with the AR/XR3s with the Neo. Will have to experiment with the idea and certainly may borrow the approach. I will be sealing mine in a 1L enclosure in the little windows of an 8th gen Civic sedan. Looks great, and thanks for posting the great idea!


----------



## Lance_S

papasin said:


> Thanks! Just wondering with regard to the sides actually but maybe that is more of an issue with the AR/XR3s with the Neo. Will have to experiment with the idea and certainly may borrow the approach. I will be sealing mine in a 1L enclosure in the little windows of an 8th gen Civic sedan. Looks great, and thanks for posting the great idea!


True, I actually wasn't thinking about the side either. The good news is that if you want, you can cut the back off just past the mounting flange. The driver is deep enough to where it would still hang past the flange. That way you wouldn't run into any resonance issues. I certainly didn't have any negative effects that I can report and the left and right enclosures were on different angles resulting in different tube lengths in the back and I still didn't notice any left to right differentiation. Of course every install is different and now that I am swapping speakers it will all change once again.

What I am really interested in is infinite baffle vs. .75 or 1 liter sealed. Let us know if you have a chance to listen to them both ways. Look forward to your review.

Maybe mark can jump in on sealed vs. open. I know he has tested these extensively.

Thanks,

Lance


----------



## Guest

I would vote sealed .75 liter


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

IB vs. Sealed. 

IB They sound great, but does lows a little power handling to seal, just with any driver that can work both ways. 

In the seal enclosure, you get more control over the cone. Power handling is better. Allows them to play a little lower easier and with more control. 

Honestly most A-pillar install are sealed not IB, as most do not have much room to vent to the under dash area.


----------



## papasin

As others mentioned, not intending to thread jack but just (hopefully) adding some useful info...



Lance_S said:


> True, I actually wasn't thinking about the side either....


To elaborate a little, I'm currently running the XR Duo front stage, with XR3M-LEs in ~1 liter enclosures in my Civic's A-pillars. I will be switching to the NZA Duo front stage shortly.

Here are the XR3M-LEs in repurposed pods from another forum member










and finished into my pillars










...but one thing I learned because of the giant neo of the XR3s is that need to make sure the baffle used is chamfered to let the XR3 breathe. Fortunately, I was able to get some rings from slade1274 who CNC'd some specifically for these monsters (credit the 2nd pic to slade1274)



















So this is what I was getting at regarding the Nz3s breathing. But as I said, hopefully, the ferrite motor for the Nz3 isn't as bulky as the neo of the AR/XR3.



Lance_S said:


> What I am really interested in is infinite baffle vs. .75 or 1 liter sealed. Let us know if you have a chance to listen to them both ways. Look forward to your review.


In talking to Mark, the Nz3-As should be drop-in replacements, so I will try them initially in the current pods, but I fully intend to redo the pods in the near future as I'm not happy with the way they are currently aimed...even though it did not have any adverse effects in a recent comp with the car doing fairly well...it was less than three points from that monster Hyundai Genesis build Bing did, and a point from another top SQ 4-runner built by this forum's very own jtaudioacc. I'd like to take another crack at CA state finals in a few weeks, hopefully with the NZA Duo .


----------



## oca123

I ended up pointing them at the rearview mirror. I used the PVC pipe idea, but just used a single 3'' slice of pipe cut at an angle. It works nice. I have one pillar done, the second one still needs sanding and wrapping.
I will post pics in a bit. These pillars will do for now, but what I really want to do is a little more elaborate.. If you look at this picture, notice the air vent.... well, these are exactly 3'', and they have a system that lets you orient them whichever way you want.










I would like to make my a-pillar pods look the same to blend in with the interior. The "fins" which direct air could be thinner, and serve as a grille.

Any ideas/leads on where I should start? I guess they could be made out of any material and then coated with metal finish paint?


----------



## IBcivic

oca123 said:


> I ended up pointing them at the rearview mirror. I used the PVC pipe idea, but just used a single 3'' slice of pipe cut at an angle. It works nice. I have one pillar done, the second one still needs sanding and wrapping.
> I will post pics in a bit. These pillars will do for now, but what I really want to do is a little more elaborate.. If you look at this picture, notice the air vent.... well, these are exactly 3'', and they have a system that lets you orient them whichever way you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to make my a-pillar pods look the same to blend in with the interior. The "fins" which direct air could be thinner, and serve as a grille.
> 
> Any ideas/leads on where I should start? I guess they could be made out of any material and then coated with metal finish paint?


Maybe have a replica CNCd out of solid aluminum?


----------



## oca123

IBcivic said:


> Maybe have a replica CNCd out of solid aluminum?


Wouldn't it resonate? I'm pretty sure plastic would work, I've seen pretty convincing metal-like coatings.
How about a 3D Printer?


----------



## Wesayso

You could print one with ease... Maybe even have them chromed after polishing?
I use shapeways.com for my 3D prints, but it's local for me... They do ship international though.
But I guess on your side of the ocean there must be way more choise.


----------



## oca123

Just checked, lots of local options. I wanted an excuse to buy a 3D printer. I found these though: Vintage Air 490535 - Vintage Air Standard Series Louvers - Show All - SummitRacing.com - they llok close enough i guess.


----------



## Wesayso

You can't order the exact same grilles at a dealer?


----------



## oca123

If they're $260 each on ebay, I wonder how much they are from the dealer. I'd rather get some plastic knockoffs to experiment with first... if then I decide that I want to go with the idea, and the plastic copy doesn't look right, I will order the right part or have it made, yes


----------



## Wesayso

I should have known they were expensive. I'd still ask though, they might surprice you (lol)


----------



## Mindcrime

oca123 said:


> I ended up pointing them at the rearview mirror. I used the PVC pipe idea, but just used a single 3'' slice of pipe cut at an angle. It works nice. I have one pillar done, the second one still needs sanding and wrapping.
> I will post pics in a bit. These pillars will do for now, but what I really want to do is a little more elaborate.. If you look at this picture, notice the air vent.... well, these are exactly 3'', and they have a system that lets you orient them whichever way you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to make my a-pillar pods look the same to blend in with the interior. The "fins" which direct air could be thinner, and serve as a grille.
> 
> Any ideas/leads on where I should start? I guess they could be made out of any material and then coated with metal finish paint?


If you end up decided you need the factory vents, let me know. I can get them at dealer cost for you


----------



## oca123

I have the B part number, is there a corresponding VW or Audi part number for these? What is dealer cost on these?


----------



## Lance_S

Do you have them installed yet? I see the pics have the old ones in. Curious what your impressions are. Thanks.


----------



## oca123

I have pillars built, but I'm having trouble stretching vinyl over them. Real leather was easier to work with. I only listened to them in my old pillars which were vented into the dash. They sounded great.
These new pilalrs have 0.75l of sealed space for the NZ3s. I have not listened to them yet in them. BigRed came down yesterday, but we were both ADD'ing and he only heard one NZ3. He didn't seem too impressed but it's hard to tell with just one and we were both really tired


----------



## hippopotamus

oca123 said:


> I ended up pointing them at the rearview mirror. I used the PVC pipe idea, but just used a single 3'' slice of pipe cut at an angle. It works nice. I have one pillar done, the second one still needs sanding and wrapping.
> I will post pics in a bit. These pillars will do for now, but what I really want to do is a little more elaborate.. If you look at this picture, notice the air vent.... well, these are exactly 3'', and they have a system that lets you orient them whichever way you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to make my a-pillar pods look the same to blend in with the interior. The "fins" which direct air could be thinner, and serve as a grille.
> 
> Any ideas/leads on where I should start? I guess they could be made out of any material and then coated with metal finish paint?


r u looking for something like this ?
coz i think it looks like ur air vents..


----------



## oca123

hippopotamus said:


> r u looking for something like this ?
> coz i think it looks like ur air vents..


Sort of... These are my air vents:








They look a bit different. What's really nice about them is that the spheres inside can rotate. That would allow me to aim-reaim my speakers at will

Maybe I'll take one of them out, take it to a 3D scanning place... then edit the resulting file to make work as a grille... then have it 3D printed, and coated 

I can already hear IBCivic going "marchand fou!"


----------



## subwoofery

oca123 said:


> Sort of... These are my air vents:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They look a bit different. What's really nice about them is that the spheres inside can rotate. That would allow me to aim-reaim my speakers at will
> 
> Maybe I'll take one of them out, take it to a 3D scanning place... then edit the resulting file to make work as a grille... then have it 3D printed, and coated
> 
> I can already hear IBCivic going *"marchand fou!"*


What was the english ^ term? 

Kelvin


----------



## oca123

subwoofery said:


> What was the english ^ term?
> Kelvin


IBCivic and I have been PMing and I was picking on him for being French canadian... "marchand fou" is french canuck for "you're crazy" I guess.


----------



## subwoofery

oca123 said:


> IBCivic and I have been PMing and I was picking on him for being French canadian... "marchand fou" is french canuck for "you're crazy" I guess.


Can I play? I'm french  
"En tout cas, le crea*T*eur d'*A*ir et d'*A*mbiance est vraiment ingénieux "

Kelvin


----------



## IBcivic

Pas marchand fou!?!?!?!.... *Méchant malade*!!! (expression Quebecoise) qui signifie "really crazy"or you are nutz! ...Muy Loco.....


----------



## subwoofery

IBcivic said:


> Pas marchand fou!?!?!?!.... *Méchant malade*!!! (expression Quebecoise) qui signifie "really crazy"or you are nutz! ...Muy Loco.....


Je me disais aussi  

Kelvin


----------



## IBcivic

subwoofery said:


> Je me disais aussi
> 
> Kelvin


Must have been the bondo fumes


----------



## oca123

yea, i went all out with the bondo and resin... so hot outside, i was in the garage with the A/C so air was recirculating.
I've had vertigo for maybe 24h now. I spent maybe 2h trying to wrap these f#$%#$ pillars with vinyl without it wrinkling. I think I will either make a tiny slice/seam, or maybe change the shape a little but keep 0.75L sealed.

Also, IBCivic, I started tryign to fit the peerless...don't fit between the door card and door panel without the magnet hitting the window.
I grabbed my balls and cut out an opening in the door card with a dremel. In the next few days I will be adding layer after layer of MDF to make a baffle board/pod that will be bolted to the door panel (so it says when you remove the door card)

I said I'm going to use layers of MDF, because I really do feel sick from the bondo fumes, lol


----------



## IBcivic

Any progress pics?


----------



## Lance_S

Choppin the Bentley for a system! Now there is dedication. Mine should be back up mid week.


----------



## IBcivic

Lance_S said:


> Choppin the Bentley for a system! Now there is dedication. Mine should be back up mid week.


He did state that it was his "toy car" ..For all we know, oca123 might be Bernard Arnault in real life.


----------



## wdemetrius1

oca123 said:


> I have pillars built, but I'm having trouble stretching vinyl over them. Real leather was easier to work with. I only listened to them in my old pillars which were vented into the dash. They sounded great.
> These new pilalrs have 0.75l of sealed space for the NZ3s. I have not listened to them yet in them. BigRed came down yesterday, but we were both ADD'ing and he only heard one NZ3. He didn't seem too impressed but it's hard to tell with just one and we were both really tired



I'm curious to hear BigRed's thoughts on these driver.


----------



## Guest

Kinda tough to get an accurate representation only playing ONE speaker...

Heck just wire both up and place them in the towels in different locations would provide a better enviroment than just a single driver...

I can tell you that there's not a single AP/H-Audio speaker that I have played with that has not impressed. I have spoke with the designer numerous times and provided my own input. The Nz3 and Arian are top notch offerings and, I feel, will provide the springboard for Mark and AP to "take it to the next level".


----------



## ecbmxer

Mark, I know we talked about frequency response in genera, but is there any difference in off axis response with this new 3" driver? (vs the old AR3, Trinity, etc)

I'm interested in your test results when pairing it with some of the older widebands you sold.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

ecbmxer said:


> Mark, I know we talked about frequency response in genera, but is there any difference in off axis response with this new 3" driver? (vs the old AR3, Trinity, etc)
> 
> I'm interested in your test results when pairing it with some of the older widebands you sold.


These are total different animal then then any of our other super wide-bands.

I have call it this before and it is even better now, with the Nz3-A/AT. I call it *phantom off axis response* this is because of the rising top end response give you a sense of better off axis response. These are design even more so to be mount off axis without having as much of an negative effect on the top end and this is even without the Ambiance Transducer. It is the best 3" wide-band I have tested, heard and used off-axis.


----------



## papasin

*Audible Physics NZA Duo unboxing*

Pretty much an exact copy and paste from my build thread, but thought those subscribed here might be interested. Title pretty much says it, and I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.




































































































I'll update with some comparison pics when I get the XR Duo out. Kids are in bed, see if I can get these things installed.


----------



## papasin

*Comparison Pics of XR3M-LE vs. Nz3-A*


----------



## oca123

Thanks for the pics, Papasin. Mine did not come with the box.
Things have been hectic around here, but I have my pillars done. I was not able to wrap them following a series of unlucky events:
- Spray can of glue is defective (no gas)
- Only enough vinyl for one pillar left
- Vinyl ripped while I was pulling it.

In fact, I realized that this yard of vinyl I purchased, has been completely useless. I have been unable to use it. Real leather was not a problem, but the drawback was the slight color and texture mismatch, and price (easily 10-20x the price of vinyl, same look)

what to do.....


----------



## Guest

Nice packaging Mark !


----------



## slade1274

I would like to see outside shots of the ~B~


----------



## papasin

oca123 said:


> Thanks for the pics, Papasin. Mine did not come with the box.


Probably could have had my NzA Duo a bit ago, but wanted to wait for the box. Wanted the unboxing experience .

Now they are out and people know about them, how do you think IBCivic knew about these drivers?


----------



## Inferno333

Those are some small drivers! Wow!

One could almost make a tiny magnet mount for the AMT and stick it to the mounting screw of the NZ3.


----------



## oca123

The NZ3s play very up high already, so I use the AMT in a different location. They work well for me up high in the pillars. I will post some pics soon.
I managed to fit the 8'' peerless XLS long-throw subs in the doors. Barely.


----------



## IBcivic

oca123 said:


> I managed to fit the 8'' peerless XLS long-throw subs in the doors. Barely.


Glad that they fit, man

I had to machine the flange on my XLS8s from 225mm down to 215mm, to make them fit in my doors Not for the faint of heart


----------



## oca123

I'd rather machine the flange of a sub $100 speaker than a car door!


----------



## oca123

slade1274 said:


> I would like to see outside shots of the ~B~


I dont have too many, but I've dug around and found some. I am making sure to post the dirtiest, ghettoest ones I can find, because I dont think i've ever seen pictures of a dirty bentley anywhere on the internet. In all of these pictures, the car is pretty much covered in MDF dust.


















































I have to make some grills that will be secured using magnets to cover the midbasses.

I had the NZ3 on axis, now trying off-axis. For the AAT, I made a copy of the "airbag" trim plastic piece that covers the screw to remove the pillar, then cutout a hole for the AAT. I then vaccuum-sealed the AAT, and applied Plas-T-Pair (kind of epoxy resin) and then removed when dry, to get a perfect flush fit.



















I think I am going to need some custom stitching for the pillars. Does anyone know a place in Socal that does this quick and cheap? It can't be that hard?


----------



## SaturnSL1

How you liking that Bentley? I've driven a Continental GT and it left me feeling very odd about cars that cost that amount of money. Not at all what I expected from a car that a lot of folks fawn over.


----------



## oca123

SaturnSL1 said:


> How you liking that Bentley? I've driven a Continental GT and it left me feeling very odd about cars that cost that amount of money. Not at all what I expected from a car that a lot of folks fawn over.


Shrug... I've driven many expensive cars... none of them are all that great... just cars, with plastic parts, things that break, etc. I've noticed that MB is better at hiding it than other mfgs, but thats it. Honestly, the more expensive the cars get, the less value you get for your money.
I actually have not had a single problem with the Bentley, except for a battery that needed to be replaced, so I should consider myself lucky, but I have a MB S63 AMG that is in the shop every month. If I remember the receipts I saw correctly, in the past 6 months, it has racked up close to $15k in various repairs. All of them under warranty.

I guess my point is, "normal" cars have all the bells and whistles, if you want the extra 10%, it's going to cost you 300% more.

If your question is about the way the car drives, then my answer is completely different.
I have driven the Continental GT on 19s, 20s, even 22s, and the rim size made a HUGE difference. Obviously on 22s it was unbearable.
Second, uneven tire pressure between left and right will completely **** up the way the car drives. The car has a tendency to lose tire pressure if you let it sit for a while, so at the dealer, when you take that CGT for a spin, there's a good chance you're not experiencing the actual driving experience you would get if the tires were properly inflated.
Third, the car will drive like **** if the battery is dead. I believe this is due to the air suspension.
Fourth, the default suspension setting is a compromise between "sporty/hard" and "comfort/soft" - this setting sucks, it feels like a "regular" car.

I dont like speed racing around corners, so this is a good car for me. It's fairly fast in a straight line, lets me swerve in and out of traffic on the freeway going 10mph above everyone else.
I actually enjoy how heavy the car feels (I believe it weights 5300lbs empty... add a couple 15s, amps, MDF panels, etc. and a driver, and you're nearing 6000lb) and I feel sorry for the other guy if I ever rear-end somebody. The GT is what it's called... a gran turismo car. It's not a pure luxury car that "floats" over the road, and it's not a sports car either....

I'll tell you what... I've had an E92 M3, and a 2011 Audi S5. The S5 felt great the day I test-drove it, but I started hating it more and more, starting on day 2. I kept it 6 months and I didn't feel that the car was worth putting a system in.

so, to answer your question.... I know the CGT is basically a VW Phaeton, it's been reliable, and I have realistic expectations when it comes to expensive cars.

------

Now, I have a weird problem with the NZ3s, which I believe may be caused by the amplifier (ZED Audio Leviathan III)

I have the NZ3s/AATs hooked up to channels 1&2 with every setting defeated
On channels 3/4 I have one midbass driver (8Ohms, peerless XLS)
Channels 5/6 are powering the other midbass driver.

If I turn the volume up to a comfortbale listening volume for freeway driving, the NZ3s start popping during midbass hits. It's like they are seeing DC... loud, scary, annoying sound.

If I turn down the midbass, the problem diesappears.

What is going on? Could it be that soem of the speaker wires are damaged and are touching ground? I want to hook up an osci and see what that "pop" actually looks like, but I cant find anything that has a resistance for 4 ohms aorund here.


----------



## slade1274

I won't even look at a Leviathan again- not good experiences on my end (albeit mine was a first run) Feel free to PM if you want any more info on my experience without clogging the build log.

Also- nice way to address a blatant troll on how *you* choose to spend *your* money.


----------



## IBcivic

Damn, those XLS8s look sexy in that Bently...Beau travail!








Are those Peerless' giving you the mid-bass performance that you were looking for? 
I do realize that you are experiencing amp issues at the moment.


----------



## Guest

Please check your crossover points on the Nz3....


----------



## hippopotamus

finally got my hands on my AP NzA set today..

but i dunno why the midbass is different from previous page pics.. My friend (the one who helped me get the NzA) said that it's the midbass that comes along with the AP NzA sets..

Mark, any thoughts about the difference in midbass ?


----------



## strakele

I think now when you get the whole set you get the midbass with a dust cap instead of phase plug since with the Nz3 you won't need the Arian to play very high, and can benefit from the slightly greater cone area and slightly lower Fs that the dust cap provides.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Yes correct . same driver just with a dust cap. The fs is around 56Hz Vs. phase plug unit at 59hz


----------



## oca123

^^^ What he said. You don't need the woofers to play full range since you ahve the mids, so a phase plug would not benefit you. You have the right woofers. They look purrrrty, btw 

My crossovers are set to 360Hz, 24db slopes.

There is something else going on. The right midbass channel "bleeds" through to the mids once volume exceeds a certain threshold. It could be an amp issue, or it could be that the voltage is high enough to jump to an adjacent wire because t he insulation has been damaged. There are areas that are not techflexed, and maybe some wires also have damaged insulation from when I stripped them. I used quite a bit of this stuff in my install, which could be a problem:










Or it could be the amplifier. That would be too bad really, because the Leviathan is a great offering in terms of size, power, and features. It definitely makes the Peerless XLS midbass sing, with 380W @ 8Ohm per channel! I am still waiting for my Phoenix Gold Elite.4 to get back from service, once I have it I will switch the mids over to that.

I'm off to making grilles for the front doors. Gotta go pick up some earth magnets!

P


----------



## jamiebosco

slade1274 said:


> I won't even look at a Leviathan again- not good experiences on my end


Same here,never again!!


----------



## DAT

Hey these speakers look nice...


----------



## oca123

I spoke to Steve Mantz at Zed Audio and explained the problem. He said it had to be the processor. I unhooked the processor, and set everything up using a bunch of RCA splitters, all passive, and set up appropriate crossovers on the Leviathan. As far as I can tell, something is wrong still.

I don't know if the mids are getting the 200V spikes again it looks like they might, but I can't be sure and I don't want to damage them... going to have to hook up some cheap 4Ohm speakers to test... but I noticed that I can get clipping fairly easily, and I can't get the speakers to get as loud as I want before the signal gets clipped.
What's really strange is that when the signal gets clipped, the peerless make a weird "clap" sound.
I didn't buy the amp through Zed directly, thank god. I figured I might have issues with it so I bought it through WoofersETC.


----------



## DAT

oca123 said:


> I spoke to Steve Mantz at Zed Audio and explained the problem. He said it had to be the processor. I unhooked the processor, and set everything up using a bunch of RCA splitters, all passive, and set up appropriate crossovers on the Leviathan. As far as I can tell, something is wrong still.
> 
> I don't know if the mids are getting the 200V spikes again it looks like they might, but I can't be sure and I don't want to damage them... going to have to hook up some cheap 4Ohm speakers to test... but I noticed that I can get clipping fairly easily, and I can't get the speakers to get as loud as I want before the signal gets clipped.
> What's really strange is that when the signal gets clipped, the peerless make a weird "clap" sound.
> I didn't buy the amp through Zed directly, thank god. I figured I might have issues with it so I bought it through WoofersETC.




For what its worth, I have seen several repair jobs on newer and OS Zed amps repaired by some of his "hacks".

thats enough to scare anyone, cold solder joints was #1 issue.

I avoid his stuff completely.


----------



## jamiebosco

oca123 said:


> I spoke to Steve Mantz at Zed Audio and explained the problem. He said it had to be the processor. I unhooked the processor, and set everything up using a bunch of RCA splitters, all passive, and set up appropriate crossovers on the Leviathan. As far as I can tell, something is wrong still.
> 
> I don't know if the mids are getting the 200V spikes again it looks like they might, but I can't be sure and I don't want to damage them... going to have to hook up some cheap 4Ohm speakers to test... but I noticed that I can get clipping fairly easily, and I can't get the speakers to get as loud as I want before the signal gets clipped.
> What's really strange is that when the signal gets clipped, the peerless make a weird "clap" sound.
> I didn't buy the amp through Zed directly, thank god. I figured I might have issues with it so I bought it through WoofersETC.


lol,you will NEVER get Steve to admit fault with his product


----------



## oca123

I hung out with someone who sent an expensive amp to Steve for a repair job. He told me that eventually Steve said he couldn't fix it and sent it back. He told me that the PCB had been cut in half, and he also said "it looked like a monkey was up in there"
That said, the Leviathan III is a great amp, when it works. I just went to the store to run a quick errand, and there's def. something wrong with it, because as soon as I turn it up to a comfortable level, all the speakers pop... this time it went into protection.

It's aggravating, and I think my NZ3s might be damaged, because they don't sound as good anymore.... or it could be the amp. I finally got a tracking # for my good class A/B amp I was going to use for the NZ3s, and I should have it Friday.


----------



## Boostedrex

Sorry to hear about your amp going south on you. But that's not a rare problem with the Leviathan. I've heard lots of horror stories about them. And the support for them has been even worse. Best to just get rid of that and move on to a better solution.


----------



## Guest

As much as it pains me to say it... I have to agree... I was a big proponent of the Zed Amps but there are just too many issues to ignore...


----------



## jamiebosco

To me the worst part wasn't even the issues my amp had,any electrical product can have problems....it was the incredibly bad customer service I was given AFTER the problem arose that left a sour taste in my mouth


----------



## Mindcrime

Man these things are smaller then I thought! I have more pics in my build thread.


----------



## oca123

Mindcrime said:


> Man these things are smaller then I thought! I have more pics in my build thread.


Yeah, careful, dont lose them!

I am FINALLY picking up my Phoenix Gold Elite.4 amp up today. I've decided to try to build a "box build" type trunk with amps on the sides.... now, FIY the Elite.4 and Elite.1 weight A TON... hopefully they will stay put on the sides....

As to the Leviathan, I am going to call Steve today. I really want this amplifier to work, especially since I already made a cutout in my fake floor for it, but I might have to send it back.... if I do, what could I use instead?
The Mosconi's come to mind, but then again, everyone and their mother has one... though if they are good amps, I guess I'd be an idiot for looking the other way and being this stubborn... they kind of look ugly though IMO, if anything, they do not match this vehicle at all.... then again, I've never seen one or heard one, does anyone in Socal have one?

This is the way I had things sort of planned out:

______________________________________
********* Zed Audio Leviathan *********
**********************************
Ch1: Rear left mid (Tang Band W4 1337 SD)
Ch2: Rear left mid (Tang Band W4 1337 SD)
Ch3+4: Peerless XLS (380W into 8 Ohms)
Ch5+6: Peerless XLS (380W into 8 Ohms)

__________________________________________________ _____
********* PG Elite.1 Monoblock *****************
**************************************************
Ch1: Subs (IB3 15x2, thinking about trying AE's instead)
__________________________________________________ _____

___________________________________
********* PG Elite.4 *****************
***********************************
Ch1: Front left NZ3+AAT
Ch2: Front right NZ3+AAT
Ch3: -- unassigned --
Ch4: -- unassigned --
__________________________________________________ _____


I like to have the extra pair of channels in case I go back to a mid+tweet configuration in the pillars. I guess it may make more sense to run the rear mids off the Elite.4.

I'm kind of stuck at this point, I'm too close to the problem to be able to solve it, and I don't have car audio buddies locally, and my wife hates the hobby


----------



## Guest

The Mosconi are very nice... but so are the new PG Elites... maybe get another...


----------



## oca123

SQ_MDX said:


> The Mosconi are very nice... but so are the new PG Elites... maybe get another...


The amplifiers are probably the least important part of the system in my mind. As long as they are clean and no components are damaged, switching amps makes little difference to my ears. I will even admit that I think that what I ate for breakfast impacts my listening experience more than the kind of amplifier that is powering the system.
That said, there is something to be said about the feeling you get when you open your trunk and all of these cool coils and caps and transistors smile at you through a plexiglass cover 
Then there is the issue of longevity and reliability.

Someone had told me that despite being a class A/B topology, the Mosconi amps had efficiency ratings that were close to those of class D amps. Is that true? I do have a 190 amp alternator, but that is no reason to abuse it, especially given that replacing said alternator requires dropping the engine which is not a cheap job at all


----------



## DAT

SQ_MDX said:


> The Mosconi are very nice... but so are the new PG Elites... maybe get another...


I agree, just get another PG Elite.


----------



## oca123

DAT said:


> I agree, just get another PG Elite.


They are so ****ing heavy it's ridiculous. I guess I have the Elite.1 and the Elite.4, I might as well get the Elite.2 for midbass, but then how am I going to do my center channel


----------



## oca123

DAT said:


> I agree, just get another PG Elite.


Well, technically, I just did, because PG refused to warranty the Elite.4, I had to buy another one. This time though they sold it to me at cost so it wasn't so bad


----------



## DAT

oca123 said:


> Well, technically, I just did, because PG refused to warranty the Elite.4, I had to buy another one. This time though they sold it to me at cost so it wasn't so bad


Dealer cost is nice...


----------



## Guest

They should work just fine in that position... You will need to work with the reflected sound as you would with any speaker in that location...

Any time you can get that much information above the dash you should have some very nice staging.


----------



## oca123

Brock_Landers said:


> So there was an unanswered question asked earlier: How would these work in stock 3.5 dash locations firing at the windshield?


Stock locations in what car?
I've tried pointing them at my windshield. They sound nice that way, but then again, they sound nice whichever way you point them, really.
I think you may have problems with imaging if you point them at the windshield. When I tried it, I could tell that I would need a lot of EQ to get them to image right.
I found that they sound best slightly on axis... so i guess mostly off axis and pointed at each other, but with a slight angle towards the cabin. That's in my car, anyway.


----------



## oca123

Hmm, it's usually best to avoid being in a corner, especially if part of that corner is made out of glass, for imaging.... but it's a car, so there is only so much you can do. I guess it depends what you're looking for.
Most people don't care for a center image, and they want sound coming from everywhere... but they aren't on DIYMA either.
Since you're looking at these speakers I'm guessing you care about imaging.
If you plan on using t/a, etc. you are going to have a hard time getting a nice clean center image since the soundfield at the listening position(s) will be dominated by early reflections, if you point them at the windshield.
I'm not saying it doesn't work. I've heard a car that sounded very nice with widebanders pointed at the windshield.

I am using this document http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8848/speakerdescription.pdf as a reference btw.
Why not build some pods? Maybe tape around the area and make a fiberglass mold, then work on them outside of the car?

At any rate, I am really liking the way they went in terms of speaker sizes and locations in the 300C. What are you going to do about the 6x9s? Besides ID and CDT, I can't think of a good pair of 6x9s


EDIT: I realize the answer is probably in your build thread, but I'm too lazy to search and I gotta go!


----------



## oca123

Oh, and I know AP recommends having the AATs within 6 inches of the mids, but I chose to ignore that recommendation and things sound perfectly fine.
You could have the mids off axis, but not pointed at the windshield, but the AATs could be pointed at the windshield. You could even put them behind the rearview mirror.


----------



## oca123

Brock_Landers said:


> For the 6x9 locations, I will probably try to stuff the Dayton RS180 in there with a custom baffle.
> I have Marantz, Atlantic Technology, and Velodyne in the house, so you're right, I care more than the average listener.
> 
> I would just hate to blow $300 on speakers and not like them. That's the problem around here, no shop has heard of Morel, Vifa, Peerless, etc. because they all carry JL, Pioneer, JVC, etc.


I'm sure there are other forum members in your area? Maybe a meet-up?
The cool thing about Vifa, Peerless, etc. is that they are cheap enough that it's OK to experiment with them. (e.g. $10.00 Aura Whispers when a Focal KRX3 set retails $2000.00) 

If you can fit it, I hear Usher makes a very good 8'' midbass as well. Don't make the mistake I made months ago, which was to put 6.5'' midbass drivers in 6x9 locations. I know I'm never going back to anything smaller than 8s for midbass unless I absolutely have to.

As to these Audible Physics speakers... you could always resell them here, I'm sure they'd be gone the same day.


----------



## slade1274

They would do as well as any driver in that location. I know of one install that just used the previous AP 3" drivers in a similar location and the owner is very pleased.


----------



## oca123

slade1274 said:


> They would do as well as any driver in that location. I know of one install that just used the previous AP 3" drivers in a similar location and the owner is very pleased.


They didn't work too well for me pointed at the windshield, but... different car, different windshield, etc.

I guess the only way to know is to grab some towels and try...


----------



## oca123

What is the impedance of the Daytons?


----------



## oca123

Brock_Landers said:


> The impedance is 4 ohms for both. Even when I hooked them up to my Marantz 100x2 amp they required a lot of power to get moving. They're rated for 30w RMS, which I highly doubt will make them do anything.


That rating is with or without crossover settings?
30W RMS is plenty for mids. I have mids that are rated 150W RMS, but that doesn't mean much, other than they can be fed a sine wave at X frequency for X amount of time at 150W without the coils melting.
Sensitivity is what will determine how loud a speaker gets.
Doubling the power only results in a 3db increase, so you would need 10x the power to get a 10db increase, so assuming your 30W RMS speakers could handle 300W and not distort or reach mechanical limits, if given 300W they would only be twice as loud.

I'm guessing the stock speakers are very efficient, light paper cones, and they are in an enclosure designed for them... How did you hook up the Daytons? Did you have them in an enclosure?
Good sounding speakers will require a lot more power than your stock speakers to get loud and sound good.... or at least, they will need a beefier amp to make them sing....


----------



## wdemetrius1

slade1274 said:


> They would do as well as any driver in that location. I know of one install that just used the previous AP 3" drivers in a similar location and the owner is very pleased.



I would have to agree with Ryan. I personally use this location in my car and I have been very pleased, as well. IMHO, I think that it has more to do with tuning.


----------



## wdemetrius1

Brock_Landers said:


> Stock locations in a 2012 300C. They are in the center and L/R corners flanking the defroster vent. There's a video in my build thread.
> 
> I'm really trying to avoid making a pillars so when I read this thread it got me thinking.



Brock, when we had our last ATL GTG, Shawn has the same car as you, he was running his drivers in the stock locations, with great results as well.


----------



## wdemetrius1

oca123 said:


> Hmm, it's usually best to avoid being in a corner, especially if part of that corner is made out of glass, for imaging.... but it's a car, so there is only so much you can do. I guess it depends what you're looking for.
> Most people don't care for a center image, and they want sound coming from everywhere... but they aren't on DIYMA either.
> Since you're looking at these speakers I'm guessing you care about imaging.
> If you plan on using t/a, etc. you are going to have a hard time getting a nice clean center image since the soundfield at the listening position(s) will be dominated by early reflections, if you point them at the windshield.
> I'm not saying it doesn't work. I've heard a car that sounded very nice with widebanders pointed at the windshield.
> 
> I am using this document http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8848/speakerdescription.pdf as a reference btw.
> Why not build some pods? Maybe tape around the area and make a fiberglass mold, then work on them outside of the car?
> 
> At any rate, I am really liking the way they went in terms of speaker sizes and locations in the 300C. What are you going to do about the 6x9s? Besides ID and CDT, I can't think of a good pair of 6x9s
> 
> 
> EDIT: I realize the answer is probably in your build thread, but I'm too lazy to search and I gotta go!



At one time, I thought the exact same thing. In my Build Log, Ryan made mention of the fact, that I wanted kick panels. I always thought that was the best way to go concerning your front sound stage. To be honest, you can achieve great results with both methods. In the end, I'm glad that I took his advice.


----------



## chefhow

Brock, I think you should wait until you get the MS8 installed before passing judgement on any drivers. Just my .02...


----------



## wdemetrius1

Brock_Landers said:


> What is he running in the stock locations? AP Trinity?


I'm not sure which drivers he was running. Maybe someone can chime in...


----------



## oca123

Brock, you can't really go wrong with the AP drivers, and they will always have good resale value. 
If the stock locations are proven to work in that car, then by all means, do it 

I say just get them.... if you want to wait a little while to save up money, but still want to try out widebanders, check out this page 

Speaker Building Supplies from Madisound


----------



## oca123

I have my PG Elite.4 but I am in the process of building a crazy amp rack to fit two Elite amps on either side of the trunk, and a fake floor for a 3rd amp (Leviathan III for now for midbass) and the processor (PS8) with acrylic edge-lighting etc.
I haven't even hooked up the NZ3s so the PG since I got it.... I can't wait to do it, because I believe since the Leviathan had that strange popping issue, there's something wrong with it and it may not have done full justice to the NZ3.... but I want to have everything hooked up before I turn them on


----------



## bertholomey

wdemetrius1 said:


> I'm not sure which drivers he was running. Maybe someone can chime in...


He had the 4" Scan Illums on the dash.


----------



## wdemetrius1

Thanks Jason.


----------



## Fantaxp7

Brock_Landers said:


> Stock locations in a 2012 300C. They are in the center and L/R corners flanking the defroster vent. There's a video in my build thread.
> 
> I'm really trying to avoid making a pillars so when I read this thread it got me thinking.


I just traded in my 300C.

Sorry to de-rail the thread. I have been viewing this thread as I am getting a Nz3 of my own soon.

Here's a shot of my pillars from them:


----------



## Fantaxp7

oca123 said:


> I have my PG Elite.4 but I am in the process of building a crazy amp rack to fit two Elite amps on either side of the trunk, and a fake floor for a 3rd amp (Leviathan III for now for midbass) and the processor (PS8) with acrylic edge-lighting etc.
> I haven't even hooked up the NZ3s so the PG since I got it.... I can't wait to do it, because I believe since the Leviathan had that strange popping issue, there's something wrong with it and it may not have done full justice to the NZ3.... but I want to have everything hooked up before I turn them on


I'd love to see a comparison of the PG amp vs the Zed. I really want a Leviathan myself but these issues people speak of make me cautious.

What is the price of the PG? I would imagine a bit cheaper...


----------



## oca123

Fantaxp7 said:


> I'd love to see a comparison of the PG amp vs the Zed. I really want a Leviathan myself but these issues people speak of make me cautious.
> 
> What is the price of the PG? I would imagine a bit cheaper...


PG makes a class D amp (Elite.1) which is a monoblock sub amp, and then the Elite.2 and Elite.4 which are massive, overbuilt class A/B amps.
I found a review for the PG Elite.4 by Eric (SoundBuggy) which oddly is not linked to from the table of contents on his website: Phoenix Gold Elite

This is one of his closing statements: _"The bottom line is this amp is the best amplifier I have ever had the opportunity to play with. It has more power than it is rated for, it sounds perfect, and it looks to be a very reliable design. I commend PG for producing an excellent product, and something truly better than anything which they have produced before."_

and there is also a PasMag review (I always take these with a grain of salt because I don't recall reading many negative comments on anything over there) here PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Phoenix Gold Elite 4 Amplifier Review

MSRP on the Elite.4 is $1299.00 or so. PM me and I will tell you how much I paid the first and second time.


----------



## n_olympios

Brock_Landers said:


> The stock speakers are in fact paper cones, with cloth surrounds, but they are in a quasi-IB setup, meaning there is no enclosure save for some venting ducts nearby and some other shizz.


Quite a fancy name for what was originally designed by the manufacturer as "just throw 'em wherever physically possible and at lowest cost". :laugh:


----------



## Winno

Here's some of the NZ3A's in a partially completed system here in Australia.
Will be driven by a slightly older school PG Titanium 600.2, and Clarion HX-D2.
Trying to figure out where to put the AMT's, if they'll be needed at all.










Am hoping to have them up and running in a few days, time permitting.


----------



## hippopotamus

Winno said:


> Here's some of the NZ3A's in a partially completed system here in Australia.
> Will be driven by a slightly older school PG Titanium 600.2, and Clarion HX-D2.
> Trying to figure out where to put the AMT's, if they'll be needed at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am hoping to have them up and running in a few days, time permitting.


great pillars there mate.. r they sealed ?

===========================================

from my build logs.. http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...einstall-audible-physics-helix-c-dsp-etc.html
i put the AT inside the sail area where OEM tweeter was.. and when the door is being closed, the AT is not more than 6inches from the widebander.
looking forward to see people's reaction about where the top end comes from..

Left pod









Right pod









Sail area

















Left midbass with stitched vinyl









Right midbass with stitched vinyl


----------



## bertholomey

fantastic build Hippo - I'll get some time later today to look over your entire build thread, but I really like those pods and the Arian build at the bottom of the door - extremely clean!


----------



## oca123

Winno, I can see you in the rearview mirror.
Hippo, your steering wheel is on the wrong side. Your build is so clean, it looks better than the car. Very nice stitching job... did you do that yourself?

Now that the popping issue is fixed and I am running the Elite.4 to the NZ3, I can truly appreciate what great speakers they are.

Here's a couple pics... I installed this stuff over the weekend, but there's still a lot of work to do... fake floor, side panels with edgelit acrylic, replace subs with AE SBP15s, install Arc Audio PS8 (it will go in the space in front of the Leviathan, I almost made the cut out but decided to wait) and get some vinyl for the floor cutout (that black carbon CF was scrap I got from somewhere a long time ago, it looks nice but I want to explore other options)


----------



## Winno

oca123 said:


> Winno, I can see you in the rearview mirror.


Just as well I wasn't neked then!

Your car is looking great btw. 

My trims are fully prepped and will get their first coat of texture paint tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## hippopotamus

haha yep.. the steering wheel side is on the right side here.. makes it hard for us to build a custom kick panel for the midbass since it'll be very close to the gas pedal..
Nope.. i leave the stitching job to the professional.. can't do it myself since i don't have the skill and the equipment.

a bit of my progress

added Standartplas crystal diffuser behind the midbass









Preparing the Helix c-dsp setup

















This will be the final look of my trunk.. still figuring out what to add to make it look better..


----------



## oca123

Winno said:


> Just as well I wasn't neked then!


And what I said was my polite way of pointing that out 



hippopotamus said:


> haha yep.. the steering wheel side is on the right side here.. makes it hard for us to build a custom kick panel for the midbass since it'll be very close to the gas pedal..


Good point, I never thought of that... then again, I don't have that much experience with car audio. Did you know that I've never heard a car with kick panels? In fact, I haven't really heard many other cars with custom systems...



> Nope.. i leave the stitching job to the professional.. can't do it myself since i don't have the skill and the equipment.


I did a leather wrap myself on some pillars for a set of KRX3 mids+tweets. The leather was a lot easier to work with than the vinyl. I have tried and failed with the vinyl... then I got a quote from some random upholstery place I drove by one day, and it was $60... so when I finish my pillars, that's where I'm taking them! (that quote is if I bring just the pillars and I provide the vinyl)



> added Standartplas crystal diffuser behind the midbass


What does that do? Is the midbass sealed?



> This will be the final look of my trunk.. *still figuring out what to add to make it look better..*


That may be the root of the problem.


EDIT:

Winno, have you tried different enclosures/aiming for these? Now that you've had these installed for a little bit, how do they sound aimed the way you have them? I am considering of doing spheres on axis just like you did. How far is each mid from the listener's nose?

Hippo, is that a measurement mic? Does the C-DSP come with it, or is that just you taking measurements with some other software?
Also, how did you get that logo etched into the acrylic? Do you have a close-up picture of what's behind that panel housing the Abyss amp and what looks like a CD changer?


----------



## hippopotamus

oca123 said:


> What does that do? Is the midbass sealed?


Dispersing back wave distortion of the speakers..
StP - STP CRYSTAL




oca123 said:


> Hippo, is that a measurement mic? Does the C-DSP come with it, or is that just you taking measurements with some other software?
> Also, how did you get that logo etched into the acrylic? Do you have a close-up picture of what's behind that panel housing the Abyss amp and what looks like a CD changer?


nope.. that's not from c-dsp package. that's the mic for RTA measurement
all control and tuning of c-dsp is on the laptop (no external controller like the PS8)

it's not acrylic.. it's glass.. a custom engraved glass
Using some sort of chemical which can be bought here.. i just prepared any shape i want to engraved (in my case is MB logo).. stick it on top of a piece of glass and rub the chemicals according to the shape. Wait a while and wash it thoroughly with water. Voila!
maybe u can check this website, it's in my language but i think u'll understand the pics Grafir Kaca, Cream Grafir Kaca

yes it is a cd changer.. it's just cables behind the wooden HPL panel


----------



## IBcivic

oca123 said:


>


NICKEL!

(En francais)


----------



## subwoofery

Mouais... C'est pas mal. Pas mal du tout  

Kelvin


----------



## oca123

are you guys ashamed of acknowledging this in english? lol


----------



## Winno

oca123 said:


> Winno, have you tried different enclosures/aiming for these? Now that you've had these installed for a little bit, how do they sound aimed the way you have them? I am considering of doing spheres on axis just like you did. How far is each mid from the listener's nose?


The trims go into the car maybe next week so I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet.
I'm about 10-12 degrees off axis from both drivers. This ensures that the spectral balance from both is the same and this is based on measured frequency plots for the XR3Ms I had previously but never installed, and the Fountek FR88EXs I have now. I hope the NZ3s are the same/similar.

This way all I have to worry about is intensity left vs right (good old balance control) and then phaze (time alignment in the head unit).

These have to be sealed (Dynamat) have deflex panels added inside, felt matted around the driver and partially up the trim edge and then I'm good to go.

Just painted them their final finish this afternoon










Will do a separate build thread of my own soon...


----------



## Winno

oca123 said:


> are you guys ashamed of acknowledging this in english? lol


lol 

Viva la France!


----------



## subwoofery

Winno said:


> lol
> 
> Viva la France!


Aussie Aussie Aussie...









Kelvin


----------



## n_olympios

Allons-y les francophiles.


----------



## oca123

Hippo, real glass? As in, Borosilicate glass, or soda-lime glass? Aren't you afraid that it's going to rattle and possibly shatter? Why not sue a thick piece of acrylic/Lexan/Plexiglass?

The etching process sound interesting, I wish I could understand your language. I know here in the US they are called stencils. I've used similar stuff to make PCB boards before, and I've seen it for sale here and there.
I like how it's called Kaca in your language, it means poop everywhere else, and I like how the city that company is in is called Bambang.

Actually I was not asking about the wires around the amp, I was asking about the stuff I can see through the panel... looks like a Helix processor? I'm curious about the whole panel as is is hidden behind everything. Is that a light in the center of it?


----------



## oca123

hippopotamus said:


> Do you think the wood behind the micrphone affects high frequency measurements?
> 
> I zip-tie my microphone to a furniture clamp and clamp it to the headrest. I will take some pictures soon.


----------



## Winno

My NZ3-As have been installed and have a few hours through them now. 

I'll have some comments to make from a purely objective perspective soon in a new thread.


----------



## bertholomey

Looking forward to it....


----------



## oca123

Please link to it here...


----------



## wdemetrius1

bertholomey said:


> Looking forward to it....




^^

X2!


----------



## falstaff

OCA123 

I found this after a google translation and subsequent google search.... Armor Etch Glass Etching Cream - Walmart.com


----------



## oca123

Mark, do you have any Be drivers still?


----------



## oca123

Walmart? Dang. I guess a trip there at some point is in order. I heard they actually carry pretty good carpet for trunk fake floors.
I don't think I'll be using that this ass itching cr... i mean glass etching cream, because I can't picture myself putting actual glass in my car. I run IB, it would resonate, and one day it would crack.

I'm struggling to make sealed pillars that look good in my car. The tan trim definitely makes it a challenge. Focal drivers looked great because they had yellow cones, but these NZ3s, with their black cones, do not look right.

Is there a way to give them a copper tone without altering their response too much?



falstaff said:


> OCA123
> 
> I found this after a google translation and subsequent google search.... Armor Etch Glass Etching Cream - Walmart.com


----------



## edouble101

How are you liking these now that you have had them for a little while?


----------



## oca123

They sound great. Admittedly, I am addicted to changing gear, so I'll probably be switching them to something else. I have definitely grown fond of Audible Physics, so the next thing I want to do, I think, is try some of their older drivers, etc. so I have more things to compare the NZ3 to.


----------



## edouble101

oca123 said:


> They sound great. Admittedly, I am addicted to changing gear, so I'll probably be switching them to something else. I have definitely grown fond of Audible Physics, so the next thing I want to do, I think, is try some of their older drivers, etc. so I have more things to compare the NZ3 to.


Would you recommend these over a tradition tweeter/midrange setup?


----------



## oca123

It really depends on many things, like available mounting locations, what kind of midrange/tweeter combination, how many channels of amplification/processing you have, budget, etc. etc.

I will say that they sound pretty damn good to me.


----------



## papasin

oca123 said:


> They sound great. Admittedly, I am addicted to changing gear, so I'll probably be switching them to something else. I have definitely grown fond of Audible Physics, so the next thing I want to do, I think, is try some of their older drivers, etc. so I have more things to compare the NZ3 to.


Having happily used the XR3 for over a year, I am happy with the move to the Nz3 . I would not hesitate to use either and both have their strengths.


----------



## papasin

oca123 said:


> It really depends on many things, like available mounting locations, what kind of midrange/tweeter combination, how many channels of amplification/processing you have, budget, etc. etc.
> 
> I will say that they sound pretty damn good to me.


+1!


----------



## wdemetrius1

oca123 said:


> They sound great. Admittedly, I am addicted to changing gear, so I'll probably be switching them to something else. I have definitely grown fond of Audible Physics, so the next thing I want to do, I think, is try some of their older drivers, etc. so I have more things to compare the NZ3 to.




^^

Nice!!!


----------



## Golden Ear

Any updates on these from anyone using them? I'll be installing a pair in a couple months and I'd like as much info as possible. Thanks guys!


----------



## DAT

Golden Ear said:


> Any updates on these from anyone using them? I'll be installing a pair in a couple months and I'd like as much info as possible. Thanks guys!


quite a few guys.

here is a guy that just got some installed.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...per-crew-nothing-elaborate-2.html#post1812759


----------



## oca123

Well, I sold them because I enjoy the installing part of car audio more than the listening part, and nothing I've had since then has sounded as good.


----------



## Golden Ear

Thanks Dave!
Lol @ oca, you didn't even break them in. And did you ever dial them in cuz your only review was that they sound great?


----------



## papasin

My previous point of reference are no slouches (the XR3s), but to sum up, high resolution and revealing. It makes crappy recorded source material sound like, well crap .


----------



## Golden Ear

That's great! I know you had Bing do your install and he's gonna do mine too. What midbasses are you using with them? I'm starting with some rs180s but can't decide what to end up with.

GO NINERS!


----------



## papasin

Uh, no Bing did not do my install...although I do talk to him often. Pillars were fabricated by JT (of jtaudioacc) with aiming recommendations from me, but everything else I did .

EDIT: I am using Arians for midbasses


----------



## Golden Ear

Gotcha, my bad. Do you have them aimed on axis or off? If off, how much? 
Thanx!


----------



## papasin

On, aimed roughly at the opposite b-pillars. See pics here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1790782-post270.html

When Bing took a listen, it was with a prelim tune. If you are able to come out for Autorama, you are welcome to take a listen as it should be a bit better .


----------



## Golden Ear

I'd love to hear it. Is that the autorama in sac from feb 15-17?


----------



## papasin

Golden Ear said:


> I'd love to hear it. Is that the autorama in sac from feb 15-17?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eca-iasca-2-16-13-sacramento-ca-autorama.html


----------



## oca123

JTAudioAcc in SoCal did his pods, and he did the rest himself (after all this is *DIY*Mobile Audio). 
JT's work is just as good as Bing's. He's just too busy to document and publish every job he does 


I did have them dialed in. Between the extra time I spent sitting in my car enjoying music every day, and the rest of the stuff in my life, I just didn't have enough free time to review them further.
They are not beasts from in the 250Hz/350Hz, at least they don't pound as hard as the bigger neo motors AP has used, but they more than make up for it by requiring a lot less power, and being very transparent and detailed up high - compared with the AR3Ks the difference is NIGHT AND DAY.

Some good midbass drivers and some tweaking with xover points will compensate for the 350hz rolloff.


----------



## simplicityinsound

bah JT is much better than me, hes just lazy


----------



## papasin

simplicityinsound said:


> bah JT is much better than me, hes just lazy


I prefer your food choices for sure .


----------



## Golden Ear

Those pillars look sweet! Is that suede they are wrapped in?
I can't make it up to Sac that weekend. When's the next show/competition?


----------



## papasin

Yes, black suede. JT wanted to use gray to match the original pillars and the headliner, but I said I'd rather have black but conceded and said gray is ok so long as it looks good...but later he said it was his idea all along  .

Next meet is probably Bing's opening .


----------



## Golden Ear

Is there a thread or announcement for it? &#55357;&#56841;


----------



## papasin

Golden Ear said:


> Is there a thread or announcement for it? ��


For what, Bing's opening? I am sure he will let us know here on DIYMA or you can follow his shop's page on Facebook.


----------



## Golden Ear

'Liked' his fb page. Just need April to hurry up and get here so he can get my pods for my NZ3s done


----------



## mmiller

These are very interesting speakers, looking forward to hearing them.


----------



## Golden Ear

I should have a set in my truck in a couple weeks. I'll report my impressions here.


----------



## wdemetrius1

I look forward to your thoughts.


----------



## rexhenly

Where are these available? I see it has changed recently.


----------



## IBcivic

rexhenly said:


> Where are these available? I see it has changed recently.


Papasin has a set for sale in the classifieds... Great guy to deal with,btw.


----------



## rexhenly

Thanks, pm'ing. Want. Drooled over his thread.


----------



## IBcivic

Richard, dont forget my commission...you have my PayPal


----------



## Lance_S

I have a set available


----------



## Mindcrime

I have a set for sale as well... New in the box, Arians and NZ3/AT


----------



## papasin

IBcivic said:


> Richard, dont forget my commission...you have my PayPal


lol Martin. Thanks, but I got contacted by various folks before you posted .

They are shipping out but this was my extra set. Hanging onto mine .


----------



## papasin

Golden Ear said:


> I should have a set in my truck in a couple weeks. I'll report my impressions here.


So how do they sound after the tuning session?


----------



## Golden Ear

papasin said:


> So how do they sound after the tuning session?


"Wow", that's how! They sound so sweet up high and crossed over at 250hz hi-pass is perfect. I have no regrets whatsoever on purchasing them. At first I thought they were a little harsh in the higher frequencies and didn't play very low but after a good tuning session and crossover adjustments on the 4to6 I couldn't be happier. They are very accurate and create a nice soundstage on my dash. Image is nicely centered as well. I wish I could put a set in my wife's Tahoe but she's banned me from any more mods. 

Thanks Richard! And thanks to Grayson who's build log and world championship steered me in this direction.


----------



## BigRed

Golden Ear said:


> "Wow", that's how! They sound so sweet up high and crossed over at 250hz hi-pass is perfect. I have no regrets whatsoever on purchasing them. At first I thought they were a little harsh in the higher frequencies and didn't play very low but after a good tuning session and crossover adjustments on the 4to6 I couldn't be happier. They are very accurate and create a nice soundstage on my dash. Image is nicely centered as well. I wish I could put a set in my wife's Tahoe but she's banned me from any more mods.
> 
> Thanks Richard! And thanks to Grayson who's build log and world championship steered me in this direction.


^^ That's what its all about


----------



## Deathjunior

Anyone got a set of these used with the amts? I really want a set for my upcoming build but the brand new price is a bit to high right now. (College isn't cheap)


----------



## zech912

oca123 said:


> The amplifiers are probably the least important part of the system in my mind. As long as they are clean and no components are damaged, switching amps makes little difference to my ears. I will even admit that I think that what I ate for breakfast impacts my listening experience more than the kind of amplifier that is powering the system.
> That said, there is something to be said about the feeling you get when you open your trunk and all of these cool coils and caps and transistors smile at you through a plexiglass cover
> Then there is the issue of longevity and reliability.
> 
> Someone had told me that despite being a class A/B topology, the Mosconi amps had efficiency ratings that were close to those of class D amps. Is that true? I do have a 190 amp alternator, but that is no reason to abuse it, especially given that replacing said alternator requires dropping the engine which is not a cheap job at all


do you mean a separate amp just for the alternator?


----------

