# Fixing a voice coil?



## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Just curious... I blew out my AA Avalanche 18 yesterday. I called them and was told they sell a re cone kit and repair if you send it in. Well I usually like to fix things on my own, and $200 for recone and shipping doesn't sound good. Is there anyway to repair the voice coil on my own? I have unlimited tools if need be. Worth trying?


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## sonikaccord (Jun 15, 2008)

not if it's blown. You would have to get/make a new one. That would also require taking the sub apart.


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

I agree with cajunner, give it a shot this is DIYMA after all.


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Haven't had much time to mess around with it, but I did take the moving assembly off. I was saddened by the sight of a black coil of wire stuffed into the motor structure, basically stomped down into the bottom. I pulled out all the wire and im thinking some new wire, cheap epoxy, and some JB weld. At worst case I'll order the recone kit from Fi. Seeing as how the VC's are completely F***ed there isn't much more harm I could do. I'll post pics of the adventure soon.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

cajunner said:


> sure, give it a shot.
> 
> sub's blown, right?
> 
> ...


The problem with this is that it would change the characteristics of the sub severely. To get a new spider, it would need to have same compliance. To get a new coil wire, it would need to have the same resistance and weight. To wind it properly would be very difficult and time consuming, if not impossible. There are reasons we have machines do this kind of work. Its not something you can simply do on your own and hope for the best. 



MyJeepGoesBoom said:


> Haven't had much time to mess around with it, but I did take the moving assembly off. I was saddened by the sight of a black coil of wire stuffed into the motor structure, basically stomped down into the bottom. I pulled out all the wire and im thinking some new wire, cheap epoxy, and some JB weld. At worst case I'll order the recone kit from Fi. Seeing as how the VC's are completely F***ed there isn't much more harm I could do. I'll post pics of the adventure soon.


You clipped the hell out of your sub or you overpowered it and fried the voice coil. Chalk it up as a learning experience and fork over the $200 to get it re-coned. That's a reasonable cost considering it was your own fault and it includes shipping. 

You can't just use some cheap epoxy and JB weld and new wire. These things are designed to tight tolerances. The wire needs to be wound within close proximity. Have you actually seen a voice coil before?










I'm all for DIY, but this isn't something you can do on your own. There's a reason we have machines doing this instead of people. This takes precision. Use too much or too little wire, and you change the resistance. Use too thin or too thick wire, and you change the power handling or moving mass as well as having potential issues with clearing the voice coil gap. This has to be done perfectly. It also has to have the same diameter and the same length of coil wire. Basically, you have to do it *exactly* like it came from the factory. 

Am I getting through to you? This is not something you can do yourself. You can replace the cone yourself, but you cannot wind your own voice coil if you expect to have a decent result, unless you want to try it just for fun. I have never seen anyone do it, I have never seen anyone attempt it, and that's not because nobody's thought of it; its because its not feasible.


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Feasibility isn't anywhere near my concern right now. Basically it would just be something to do for the time being until someone gives me a good idea for a replacement on the cheaper side. 

And yes, i'm 100% aware it was over powered. It was in my hifonics brutus 2006d @ 1ohm. It was past used when I got it, it was just get as much abuse and pounding as possible til it gave up. Which I do have to say, throwing that much power to it for a good 2 months solid, I'm past satisfied. And confident that AA had to have under rated its power handling a bit. But for now..... tinkering is what I shall do until someone offers to buy it off me or comes up with a better plan. Haha.


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## sonikaccord (Jun 15, 2008)

Have you wound an inductor before?


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

No..? But the coil is along the same concept though right?


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## sonikaccord (Jun 15, 2008)

Pretty much. 
The final DC resistance that you're looking for will tell you how many feet of X gauge wire you need.


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## Coroner (Mar 29, 2008)

If you feel that the cost of having it done isn't worth it, that tells me that you think the sub is ready for the garbage. (Unless someone else can do it for less)

I've watched a handful of videos on youtube where people made their own subs and wound their own VCs so it IS possible to do. My only reccomendation, is that you get yourself a good multimeter, if you don't already have one, and double and triple check your resistance before hooking it up to the amp, just to make sure you don't blow the amp with too low of a load.

You can easily put a price on reconing a sub and rewinding a subs VC. But you can't put a price tag on doing something yourself, and learning from your experience. Whether it does, or doesn't work, as long as you learned from your experience, it was a successful job.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

MyJeepGoesBoom said:


> Feasibility isn't anywhere near my concern right now. Basically it would just be something to do for the time being until someone gives me a good idea for a replacement on the cheaper side.
> 
> And yes, i'm 100% aware it was over powered. It was in my hifonics brutus 2006d @ 1ohm. It was past used when I got it, it was just get as much abuse and pounding as possible til it gave up. Which I do have to say, throwing that much power to it for a good 2 months solid, I'm past satisfied. And confident that AA had to have under rated its power handling a bit. But for now..... tinkering is what I shall do until someone offers to buy it off me or comes up with a better plan. Haha.


Nothing will come up on the cheaper side, and you won't be winding up the coil yourself successfully. If you have a busted coil, a recone is the only way to get that sub back to working order, and nobody will buy a frame and basket off of you for anything reasonable.

Better plan? Call parts express to see if they can recone it for you for cheaper.

Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

Coroner said:


> If you feel that the cost of having it done isn't worth it, that tells me that you think the sub is ready for the garbage. (Unless someone else can do it for less)
> 
> I've watched a handful of videos on youtube where people made their own subs and wound their own VCs so it IS possible to do. My only reccomendation, is that you get yourself a good multimeter, if you don't already have one, and double and triple check your resistance before hooking it up to the amp, just to make sure you don't blow the amp with too low of a load.
> 
> You can easily put a price on reconing a sub and rewinding a subs VC. But you can't put a price tag on doing something yourself, and learning from your experience. Whether it does, or doesn't work, as long as you learned from your experience, it was a successful job.


That's like saying you can't put a price on building your own engine out of a solid block of iron with nothing more than a dremel. Well, yeah, because you can't do it. I've watched videos too, and those were usually always random projects, not repairs.

But it sounds more like he thinks the sub is worthless and just wants to tinker with it because he would otherwise throw it in the garbage, so I can't say don't tinker. I can however say there's a reason a recone costs $200, and you won't get the same results.

Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

Give it a shot and report back. I want to see you successfully do this.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

boogeyman said:


> Give it a shot and report back. I want to see you successfully do this.


So do I, but I'm trying to be realistic. At minimum, you'd need a voice coil winding machine to do it accurately. By hand, your results will be unpredictable at best. Here's one guy that did it, and I won't go into how much his machine cost him.

Here are a number of videos that I pulled up on youtube for "winding voice coil."

‪winding voice coil‬‏ - YouTube

You will notice everyone who did it either bought a machine to wind the voice coil, or created a machine to do it with precision. You will not see a SINGLE video where people are doing it by hand. 

Now, if the object is to learn and to experiment, who am I to tell you that's a bad idea? However, if the object is to create a factory replacement coil by winding it yourself, I'm being realistic; its not quite as easy. 

Winding a bobbin coil is easy. You can do that by hand and have decent results, but we're not winding inductors here. We're winding voice coils with a very specific and even tension and with great precision. Apples to oranges. 

I have yet to see or hear of anyone doing it successfully *by hand*, and if you're doing it just to repair a sub, I'd hardly think the time and money invested in making a machine to do it would be worthwhile.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

cajunner said:


> rarely do I see such vehement resistance at a DIY project here.
> 
> Not only can you wind your own coils, you can do it successfully the first time out.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah? Like who? Show me. Mention one person. Mention one youtube video. One forum, one link, anything, to prove that one guy actually did it by hand successfully. You're making it sound so damn simple, saying all you need is time and awareness. That's like saying all you need to rebuild an engine is some tools and time.

Seriously, show me one person that has done it successfully, and by successfully I mean getting even close to the equivalent of a recone. 



> His woofer is a large gap sub. If he is able to wind the coil and get the wire in a smaller gauge, it'll pop sooner on high power but it'll still play fine at low power, and somehow I think you just don't want to see it done, the way you've carried on here for several posts.


Don't put words into my mouth. You've done it before and its extremely irritating. You have absolutely no idea what I think, and you have no right to assume and act up on those assumptions.

I don't not want to see it done. I have watched videos of it being done. I don't appreciate you implying even passively that I'm an idiot because I don't know what it takes to get it done. I've carried on realistically. The OP has every right to prove me wrong and show me that he can wind a voice coil with adequate enough precision and tension to create a reliable subwoofer. 

If getting this sub back to reliable and working order isn't the goal, then this whole argument is null and void, because anyone can do whatever they want for a fun learning experience.

Its only worth trying if you think your time is worth less than the cost of a recone or if you want the challenge of making your own voice coil winding machine.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

cajunner said:


> obviously, the whole argument isn't null and void, just because you say it is.
> 
> and I haven't put words in your mouth, look at your posts in this thread from an objective standpoint and it does appear that you are dead set against anyone even attempting the task.
> 
> ...


You are. Do I need to quote you again? Arguing with you is 100% pointless. Every damn time, it comes down to the same thing. You're 100% right and I'm 100% wrong, and after I prove you wrong (read IB vs sealed debate), you disappear. 



> obviously, you feel like YOU couldn't do this task successfully and have now transplanted the outcome to anyone who might try to do it themselves.


Yeah, that's gotta be it. I design speakers and crossovers like nobody's business. I rebuilt a 1987 Jaguar V12 engine in 3 months last year and fabricated a whole ton of parts that were no longer available. I started a business in college on seamless wireless mobility, I'm writing a very long write-up on sub box design for this site, yet I clearly don't think I have the intellectual capacity to wind a voice coil. I'm not sure if I should be offended or amused.



> Don't forget that you can and should read several targeted blogs/articles/posts, on voice coil winding before attempting a repair of worth, and I never said it was going to be as good as a recone. Using tried and true principles of speaker building it is entirely possible to cement a hand-wound coil and achieve a level of output consistent with speakers produced in the time that ALL speakers were hand wound. Or maybe that point in time never existed? Maybe you'll see something here.


Tried and true principles of speaker building? How the hell do any tried and true principles of speaker building have absolutely anything to do with winding a specific length coil around an aluminum cylinder with a specific tension and a specific spacing have anything to do with tried and true principles of speaker building? 

I'm not entirely sure there ever was a time when a business hand wound voice coils when you can create a jig to do it as I proved earlier with the numerous youtube videos. Doing it by hand is nowhere near as accurate or precise as using a jig, even if you turn it by hand. Of course, I could be wrong. One thing I do know is that speakers of the past also didn't sound anywhere near as good as they do today, so if you're going for that kind of sound quality, by all means. 

That being said, I would still call partsexpress.com for a quote on a recone as I've heard they do it amazingly cheap. Cheap to the point where making a jig and buying the coil wire would be more expensive than having them do it. 

If you don't mind, what exact are those several targeted blogs/articles/posts on voice coil winding? Since you know they exist and can probably find them easily, it might be helpful to the OP if he's serious about trying it out.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

cajunner said:


> you're funny.
> 
> you'll argue to the end that it's impossible to hand-wind a coil successfully, but you've agreed that it's been done by viewing youTubes. Then you say I need to go find these internet pearls I'm talking about to soothe your sensibility?


No, you claim there's a lot of literature available, so lets see it. Youtube videos are simply showing what other people have done with specific coil winding machines, machines which are either hacked together to serve the purpose, or ones that are likely more expensive than a recone. 



> you're not all that funny.
> 
> you're not even good at misinterpreting my words to fit your dogma, yet you feel it necessary to garnish the dish with your "achievements" and who said anything about what I meant as far as HAND WOUND?


I'm not sure if it matters to me what you think I am or am not good at. Hand wound is just about the only option here lest you want to create a jig or buy one. Buying one should be out of the question given the OP wants to do it significantly cheaper than $200, and building one will involve costs of its own. I can't imagine you doing it for cheaper than $100, and that's if you have the time to source all of the parts and design the damn thing. Given the whole idea was to do it cheaper than $200, you can see why hand wound was the assumption. 



> Now, stop being obstinate and give a guy who is willing to tinker, a chance to learn something that might end up being valuable as an exercise, to someone here on the forum if only in it's fail mode.


I don't have to be the one to give him the chance; he's more than capable of giving it to himself. I'm just being realistic as far as what the results will be without the proper tools. 



> I've read about it, I've seen people on audio sites detail their successes at winding voice coils, it's not a black hole of knowledge based material that will stop someone from creating a real functioning sample.
> 
> A large percentage of coils produced today are nothing complicated, just round copper wire laid tightly together, it's not rocket science.


No, they're not very complicated. They're just very specific lengths, with very specific and uniform tensions, with very specific maximum voice coil heights, with very specific thicknesses. Its not rocket science, but it isn't legos. 

After some actual research, I have something to actually contribute. Perhaps this might help:

Fix My Speaker - Product Listing

Why wind it yourself when you can buy the coils already wound to your specification? They even custom wind voice coils to your specifications. I'd be willing to bet it would be cheaper than buying the coil yourself, buying the parts to make a jig, and making the actual jig. Hell, you could probably send them your broken cone, and have them put a new coil on it, for probably half what a new recone would cost.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

cajunner said:


> instead of your engine analogy, try a spare tire analogy, XR.
> 
> a hand-wound coil is like a donut spare. It'll get you where you need to go, but it won't hold up to the ordinary stresses of a full-size, and performance driving will suffer, but it will get you from point A to point B most of the time.
> 
> ...


My engine wasn't an analogy. It was a response to your stab telling me that I'm saying what I'm saying because I supposedly wouldn't be able to do it myself, when I have rebuilt engines before. I am mechanically inclined enough to get it done if I absolutely had to. 

I'd give him a 100% chance of success if he buys a pre-wound voice coil, saving him hours upon hours of time over making his own winding jig and winding his own coil. 

I said its impossible to do it successfully, and by successfully, I refer to a solid, reliable job that's meant to take a decent amount of power, not just something that will make noise. At that point, the purpose is no longer to re-coil a sub, but rather to learn what might be involved in doing it and challenging yourself to see if you can do it. 

I didn't say what this guy's time is worth. I just added that as something to think about. I thought I made that pretty clear. 



> Its only worth trying if you think your time is worth less than the cost of a recone or if you want the challenge of making your own voice coil winding machine.


Like I said, I thought I made it pretty clear. Its up for him to decide if its worth his time. Where is the confusion here? So far, I can't help but think I've been the only one who has given him some useful information on what it might take to get a new coil on there or what his options are. I posted videos, I established that you can't do it adequately by hand and need a jig, and I posted a website that sells pre-wound coils and offers to custom wind coils as well at a significant fraction of the $200 recone cost.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

cajunner said:


> the guy never asked about the other ways of fixing a speaker.


Actually, he did, in the first post:



> Is there anyway to repair the voice coil on my own?





> When it comes to winding coils "under specific tension" and "specific length" etc. etc., does that mean that you're not going to achieve success by winding a coil by hand? I can take a hand drill, a paper towel holder, and a pencil and get "specific tension" and "specific length," and coil VC sized copper wire on a bobbin without any expensive tooling or specialty winding machines.


You keep thinking that. Let me know when you've actually tried it and let me know what the results were. 



> YOU are making the distinction as to what YOU feel is beyond the pale, when you say it's not going to be possible or too expensive to do well, but make no mistake:
> 
> YOU are not the best at everything, even if you're the sharpest knife you've seen in the drawer.


Its not possible to do it well by hand. You need a jig or a machine, both of which would likely be more expensive than the recone. Since we know that $200 is too expensive, we can very validly assume what would or would not be too expensive for this scenario. 

I'm not the best at everything, nor did I ever claim I was. What the he hell is your problem? Do us both a favor and keep your personal feelings and attacks to yourself. If you can't refrain from blatantly starting drama, I'll be taking my leave from this thread.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

You're not challenging me when you're blatantly insulting me?



> YOU are making the distinction as to what YOU feel is beyond the pale, when you say it's not going to be possible or too expensive to do well, but make no mistake:
> 
> YOU are not the best at everything, even if you're the sharpest knife you've seen in the drawer.


Plain as english, and you choose to continue. 

I'm out. Please refrain from responding to my posts in the future until you can do so with some civility. It doesn't matter to me at all what you think you said or what you meant to say. I have zero desire to continue this drama.


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Now Im afraid to post the progress I've made with this project lol. I don't want another war amongst us...


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Alright.. Time for the most (IMO) hilarious pictures of a sub repair. And make sure you read til the end.


Coils untangled and wound up:











Bottom edge of the former that got bent:











Took a tin snips to the former and cut off the bent edge. It did make it shorter, but this is all about experience right? And I did straighten out the edge afterwards, it looks kind of rippled in this picture.











My new, hand wound, JB welded coil:











While I was waiting on JB weld to cure, I started on a few side projects and accomplished them:

5.25" Sony XBlows in my under-dash panel










Infinity Kappa 682.9cf into the front doors:










Cured, JB Welded, Hand wound coil:



















Since I cut along the very outside edge of the spider, and also because I'm sticking with the JB Weld theme:











This is how far into it I am so far. I'm waiting on the spider to finish curing, and then its time to solder the leads and glue the surround back onto the basket.

Which now I'm assuming as you're all shaking your heads in disbelief and/or disgust... Someone has to be wondering what the resistance of this "hand wound ghetto coil" is, and if the assembly itself even moves... I used my multi meter and the coil gave me a reading of 1.06 ohms. Not sure if I just got lucky to get close like that, but who cares. The entire structure does move, without any kind of scraping sounds or any bad signs. I just touched a 9volt battery to the lead wires and it jumped up and down nicely. 

Tomorrow it will be time to glue the surround back on, solder up the leads to the terminals, and test it out. If this really works, I think it will be safe to say that I'll be the proud owner of the worlds ONLY Ascendant Audio Avalanche of JB Welded, 1 ohm Single(hand wound)VC (lets shoot for 100wrms respectively) 18" subwoofer.

Thats gonna be one hell of a signature if I get lucky enough to succeed. :laugh:

Bring on the sh*t talking....................


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

good job on the trying, worse that can happen is it wont work. (which I have to agree with extreme, I dont think it will) just looking at it, I will be surprised if it fits in the gap with out scrapping. the fact that you shortened the coil length is gonna change that sub ALOT. if it was overhung before, it is prolly not now.

one thing to consider. the DC resistance of a coil as measured from a DMM will be lower than actual impedance. so 1.06 ohm DC will be about 1.3-1.5 ohm impedance.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

cajunner said:


> it's already in the gap without scraping.
> 
> Under power that's probably not going to stay true, but those AA subs must have a huge gap because it's not hitting just setting there.
> 
> ...


but did he use standard wire or coated wire? you cant make a coil with standard wire, all the loops would short together. 

maybe the slightly conductive JB weld will act like a shorting ring


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

cajunner said:


> My guess is the spider's going to rip before the JB Weld catches fire... but what do I know


If it doesn't work, im hoping for at least a small fire. Im not gonna test it with the 2006d. I've got a small 150 watt amp im gonna try to use.


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## Inferno333 (Mar 29, 2006)

I might be interested in the motor if you don't melt all that epoxy into the gap.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Subscribed. I'm looking forward to this playing out more than the beginning of football season.


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Update: 

I hooked it all up, just free air. I didn't want to bother with putting it in the box just to take it back out. It was moving alright, but it seemed like it was hesitant. I put a little pressure on the dustcap and then it started to move like it would normally. I didn't think about adding the resistor until after the post here about it. 

It played pretty nice, but I turned up the volume and the ******y vr3 went into protect mode. I turned it all off, pulled the fuse, and now the amp is done. It will play, but even with gains up and volume up, it only pushes my sub as if my HU was on volume Level 3. And this is on my little 10. So I must have fried something by running the low impedance.


Any ideas?


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

Inferno333 said:


> I might be interested in the motor if you don't melt all that epoxy into the gap.


I'm not risking my good amp for messing around, so I highly doubt i'll melt this JB weld. What are you offering for it when im through? I mean, if you can install the recone kit yourself.. which doesn't look to be too complicated, it would cost you $100 from Fi to have a brand new AA beast. Let me know what you all think would be fair..


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## Inferno333 (Mar 29, 2006)

MyJeepGoesBoom said:


> I'm not risking my good amp for messing around, so I highly doubt i'll melt this JB weld. What are you offering for it when im through? I mean, if you can install the recone kit yourself.. which doesn't look to be too complicated, it would cost you $100 from Fi to have a brand new AA beast. Let me know what you all think would be fair..



PM Sent.


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

So are you guys ready to revive an old thread? Hoping mos of you are still around these days.


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## MyJeepGoesBoom (Jun 6, 2011)

So, about 6 months after the famous hand wound JB welded coil controversy, I ended up ordering a recone from Fi. They had just merged with AA at the time. 



















Complete drop-in Dual 2 ohm recone










Dropped in, shimmed.










Glued and clamped. Metered at 1.7 ohms



















Dried, glued, ready. And might I say, the Fi dustcap looks ohhhh so sexy.










Carpet off to remove the temporary 12" top plate.










Back down to original 18" top plate.










Reunited and it feeeeels soooo gooood!


Finished product was amazing, a big hand to the guys at Fi for hooking me up. Ran this bad boy for the past two years and decided to sell it with baby #2 on the way. 

She's a year old now, so I've taken on a new project; which is what prompted the revival of this thread. Coming soon: Alpine Type R and Type X custom recones.


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