# Warning: db-R customer service



## 2chGUY (Feb 1, 2009)

Not exactly a review per say, but an example of the customer service you can potentially expect from dB-r Electronics...

I edited out the reference numbers and customer name from the preceeding posts. I felt it wasn't my place to include his personal details. He is a member here and can comment if he wishes to.


































:hanged:


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

That's Pathetic, but.......

When you buy Flea market Garbage it's to be expected.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Shouldnt matter if he sent is a 5 dollar amp or a 1000 dollar amp. That company gets paid to fix whatever is sent to them. The fact that it took them almost 3 months to basically say they had not done anything and then try to belittle the sender is crazy. We basically know what this company thinks about its customers. Could anyone really expect quality work from someone that would respond to a customer like that when they were in fact wrong?


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Sorry, we don't guarantee to be nice. If we would have finished his amp it would have worked perfectly this is not even the issue, we do the best work and everyone knows this, but no, sorry we aren't the nicest, never promised to be. Don't like it take it somewhere else, it's that simple. We never kiss ass here, never expect it. Want your amp repaired right, if it is something we work on, we will always do it right or won't do it at all, if you want us to be super nice to you and meet deadlines etc, sorry, we just can't always do that.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

4 months to repair an amp? You really need to hire more help...and or be upfront about the wait time.

It's not about asskissing...it's about providing good customer service. You had an amp for 4 months and hadn't touched it. You could have at least offered some sort of discount as an apology for you dragging your ass on getting the amp fixed/or not being upfront with the customer on how long it would take to fix the amp.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> 4 months to repair an amp? You really need to hire more help...and or be upfront about the wait time.
> 
> It's not about asskissing...it's about providing good customer service. You had an amp for 4 months and hadn't touched it. You could have at least offered some sort of discount as an apology for you dragging your ass on getting the amp fixed/or not being upfront with the customer on how long it would take to fix the amp.


No, re-read, he was asking was it received on July 15th, he started the ticket a long time ago, took him a while to send it in, we started work on it but we were out of parts then had helpers out in the hospital etc. He got pissy with me and we don't do that here, I don't have to put up with it and will not. That's the end of the story, if someone doesn't want to do business with us because we just tell it like it is, are not super nice, and can't always meet a deadline, but always do good work, that is fine, they can take it to the other repair shops out there and find out what a good "__cking" is. They don't repair the amps right (the other shops, you all know who they are) and they take 6 months to a year, LOL, we get new customers all the time who are coming from the other shops out there that simply don't do good work, and they are not nice either, so at least if we aren't nice, at least we do good work LOL.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Thats sad. I feel for the owner of the amp because he lost time and shipping fee. Am pretty sure Db-R doesnt refund shipping fees (because its rare for a company to refund that).


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

TrickyRicky said:


> Thats sad. I feel for the owner of the amp because he lost time and shipping fee. Am pretty sure Db-R doesnt refund shipping fees.


We shipped it back to him for free. Cost me $25.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

db-r said:


> Sorry, we don't guarantee to be nice. If we would have finished his amp it would have worked perfectly this is not even the issue, we do the best work and everyone knows this, but no, sorry we aren't the nicest, never promised to be. Don't like it take it somewhere else, it's that simple. We never kiss ass here, never expect it. Want your amp repaired right, if it is something we work on, we will always do it right or won't do it at all, if you want us to be super nice to you and meet deadlines etc, sorry, we just can't always do that.


Is this a Joke? I hope it is!

You Don't Ass Kiss? 

What kind of Business are you running?

You do the best work???  No you don't!!!!!! 

You're amps are Flea Market Garbage... and it's quite obvious you're Customer service, and Business practices are even worse than the product you sell!

I have never seen a Business treat someone with this kind of ignorance, and disrespect in my life. Frankly, I find it absolutely disgusting.

I can't even believe that you actually have the Gall, to come on here and act this way.

This forum is frequently visited by top level representatives from Companies such as Alpine, JL Audio, Arc Audio, Soundstream, JBL, HAT. Just to name a few.. Some of these companies are 100X the size of you're's and their Customer service is 1000% better.

FYI, a Business is nothing with Customer service, maybe if you treated people with respect.. You would generate enough revenue to make a product worth buying.

You have given yourself a Black eye throughout the Car Audio Community, Top to bottom.

All Members shall bow their heads now, and have a moment of silence for you're ignorance, and stupidity!!

I am now nauseous and cannot type anymore.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

That was the most pathetic form of customer service I have seen in a long time. 

Even "IF" you keep getting new customers, once the word spreads about how you treat them after the fact, those numbers will slowly dwindle.

How sad.

After reading that, I personally wouldn't buy anything from you. Nor would I suggest it.

Justin


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

LOL you guys are clueless. With the exception of Arc Audio you just named all the flea market garbage in the Houston area. Your not going to get a rise out of me on this issue, we straight up tell our customers that we are not that nice. Google for dB-r Electronics, you will find it everywhere that we do, in fact, do the best work, and we have lots of haters and lots of very loyal customers, for a reason.


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## Jersey Strong (Oct 16, 2010)

mmiller said:


> Is this a Joke? I hope it is!
> 
> You Don't Ass Kiss?
> 
> ...


I truly thought this was a joke too. But apparently this guy is serious. Agreed on that moment of silence for ignorance…………
It is **** like this which separates the DynAudio or Rainbow (Don) which are elite at what they do. What put them over the top is the level of customer service they provide. This guy is just tooltastic!


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

db-r said:


> LOL you guys are clueless. With the exception of Arc Audio you just named all the flea market garbage in the Houston area. Your not going to get a rise out of me on this issue, we straight up tell our customers that we are not that nice. Google for dB-r Electronics, you will find it everywhere that we do, in fact, do the best work, and we have lots of haters and lots of very loyal customers, for a reason.


Hmm... I have never seen JL Audio, JBL, Alpine, Zapco or HAT at any Flea Market.. I wish I did this hobby would be a lot less expensive!

Are you Sick in the Head or something??? You're most delusional SOB I have ever witnessed!

You're completely out to lunch!

I pray to God that Manville, Jim, Scott, or Andy see this... I would love to hear their response to you calling their stuff garbage.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

I have never seen a company actually be PROUD of the fact that thier CS sucks. While you may think you have it in the bag with doing work for the OEM's, I think that once you stop working for all the "little people" you will feel you need someone to be rude to. Let me tell you something, you try that **** with one of the bigger OEM's, you will be surprised at how fast you will lose all your business, and then you will be BEGGING regular joes to send their gear to you. And to think that in the past I have advised people to send their blown amps to you, purely based on your reputation. You can be assured THAT won't happen again. By the way, there is a difference between being "nice" and having good CS. If you cant handle the CS side without being a complete douchecanoe, you should hire someone who can, you would make a lot more money that way, and be able to hire more techs, and grow your business. As you can see, good CS is the base of a growing business.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

mmiller said:


> Is this a Joke? I hope it is!
> 
> You Don't Ass Kiss?
> 
> ...


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I'd have alot of trouble dealing with such arrogance....period! Thanx for the heads up


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I dunno I have sent amps to TIPS to repair and Ray was always nice and direct to the point. It didn't take 4-6 months to repair the amps either...even to fully mod and repair a few it took 2 weeks at the most.

I worked at Freeman's Car Stereo in the early/mid part of the last decade and they had a large repair center...they were one of the only Fosgate authorized non-warranty repair stations in the country, and they never took that long to repair anything we sent them.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Is amp repair such a niche market that keeping a quoted turn around time and politeness are not a necessity? Weird.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> Is amp repair such a niche market that keeping a quoted turn around time and politeness are not a necessity? Weird.


Apparently he thinks that he is god's gift to amp repair, and can't be bothered to be nice to the regular joe.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> I dunno I have sent amps to TIPS to repair and Ray was always nice and direct to the point. It didn't take 4-6 months to repair the amps either...even to fully mod and repair a few it took 2 weeks at the most.
> 
> I worked at Freeman's Car Stereo in the early/mid part of the last decade and they had a large repair center...they were one of the only Fosgate authorized non-warranty repair stations in the country, and they never took that long to repair anything we sent them.


Our rep is very stellar, where did you find something bad? Did you read it all the way through?

We are not interested in dealing with companies that insist that we kiss but. Yes we do mostly work for OEM's. Yes I SHOULD hire someone to do the CS because I am not the most "nice" guy around, but problem is my techs here are way worse than I am about handling the CS, so I would have to find someone who is intentionally extra nice, just hard to find that in Texas, maybe I need to import someone. LMAO.

Anyway, sorry if this ruffled some feathers, I don't care what anyone says, I know what really goes on here, and with my customers, and it's not bad at all, I think I only had one other customer in the past that tried to "post a bunch of bs online to make dB-r look bad" and you can find that post with google, but if you read it, you will see in the end, he agreed he was wrong, I was right. He even called me like 3 months later out of the blue and apologized to me. I don't screw people over here, sometimes the things I have to say about a customers amp isn't what they want to hear, but dude, I am just being honest. 

If you don't know anything about dB-r and this is the first you have heard of us and have any doubts, just google dB-r Electronics. You can decide for yourself whether we do good work and have good CS, this ONE post here on DIYMA is an isolated incident. Not attempting to save face, just sayin....

And after all, I didn't just stuff his amp back in a box and ship it back to him without at least warning him first. Everyone has their rules, and mine is don't be pushy, we won't tolerate it. We do want the business, but we will not stand for customers being pushy. As I tried to make it clear before, we do good work, and that's the end of it. I really don't want to grow the business anymore than it already is, don't want to deal with the big OEM's trust me we have, and we had problems with them, like they never paid, and they take 5-10 days to call you back, etc. We got plenty of small upstarts that have great products and great CS that we deal with and we prefer to keep it that way.

And yeah, TIPS is great, but they are not the type of shop I am talking about, some of the large OEM's use the OTHER shops, and I am sure if you could get one of their reps (from the large OEM) to tell you the truth, the reason they don't use dB-r and choose to go with those other shops is NOT because of my way of doing business, it's because dB-r is too expensive. We are the most expensive repair shop. I can't name names, so don't PM me asking me which OEM's, but lets just say they are HUGE and they did not do us right, and on top of that they expressed that we are twice as expensive as the other shops they use, even though they know that shop sucks, they use them anyway because they simply cannot afford dB-r. 

We recently dropped an OEM because their products are horribly unreliable, bad designs. Again, cannot name names. Anyone here who may know us well, knows which OEM we dropped.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

I'd say both are in the wrong.

On one hand, it does take time to take an item apart, find out the issues, order parts get said parts in, place parts, make sure it works, and then be done. And then to be doing this for multiple amps, and then have a tech go out... I can totally understand things getting very behind schedule, especially if you're busy in the first place.

On the other hand, he was without his amp for a month.

The attitude... who cares? The guy did get pushy, and I'm sure that he wouldn't like it if people were pushy with him at his job because something out of his control made his workload get backed up. Plus, I'd rather someone be up front and honest with me and be blunt rather than someone be sneaky but super nice and giving me lip service.

Keep in mind a huge part of the delay was because the owner told them it was a different amp than it really was.

Could both sides have done things differently? Yes. But I don't think its fair to place blame on either side.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

db-r said:


> I only had one other customer in the past that tried to "post a bunch of bs online to make dB-r look bad"...


The word WARNING was the only hint that 2chguy may not approve of your CS. The information provided in this thread is exclusively from your customer service system. If you feel that it makes you look bad then it's because of your CS.





db-r said:


> As I tried to make it clear before, we do good work, and that's the end of it.


This is obviously not the end of your requirements as a business because of what you said you believe is necessary to provide good CS,



db-r said:


> Yes I SHOULD hire someone to do the CS because I am not the most "nice" guy around...




This is just my opinion and is not an attack on you or your business; an observation from someone who has a degree in small business administration and owns a small business.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

FAUEE said:


> I'd say both are in the wrong.
> 
> On one hand, it does take time to take an item apart, find out the issues, order parts get said parts in, place parts, make sure it works, and then be done. And then to be doing this for multiple amps, and then have a tech go out... I can totally understand things getting very behind schedule, especially if you're busy in the first place.
> 
> ...


Normally, I would side with db-r on something like this, after having spent 5+ years in retail and dealing with customers. However I don't think you read the OP very well fauee. db-r had the amp for over a month before even opening it up. Then cust. gets back to him 8 days later for a status update, is told "sometime next week". After 7 more days, cust. politely stands his ground( as he should have), and is told not be pushy?!? IMHO, this is a fail on the part of db-r, and looking at the CS log, cust. had more patience than I would have.

Edit: also, if you look closely, db-r is the one who called the amp a d-5, the cust. originally states that it is a "d5000.1"


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah, at least I admit I am not the nicest, I could have been nicer to him, and I do know this, but as one person asked about this being a niche market and whether politeness, etc are disregarded, it's not completley like that, but in a lot of ways yes it is like that in this particular market, I've been doing it for almost 7 years now, almost an entire decade.... There are plenty of places that do amp repair, but 90% of them don't do it right, hence the cheap price.... I really can't put everything out there that I want to, I would probably end up with a "price on my head" for exposing things about the other shops. Best thing to do before you use an amp repair shop is to ask around before you use them. Relying on which shop comes up top on google ads or has the "nicest" web page won't cut it. Read reviews. Like this one. Unfortunately -1 for dB-r but there's 1000+ good reviews if you google around, so it's "ok" in my book to an extent that we have a couple bad reviews. At least I get to respond, it's what I love about the internet....


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

db-R quote is 

Time frame will be about 2 weeks.

The guy asked for updates and was not pushy. He was up front and told you that he did not want to wait 3-4 months. You gave the customer false information, then you beat on your chest when he called you out! 

Let’s say your business computer system crashed and Dell told you 2 hours to get it up and 3-4 days later you still have no system. When you say something to Dell about the 2 hour’s, Dell says don’t get pushy and just walks out! Would you think that company is worthless?





db-r said:


> Our rep is very stellar, where did you find something bad? Did you read it all the way through?
> 
> We are not interested in dealing with companies that insist that we kiss but. Yes we do mostly work for OEM's. Yes I SHOULD hire someone to do the CS because I am not the most "nice" guy around, but problem is my techs here are way worse than I am about handling the CS, so I would have to find someone who is intentionally extra nice, just hard to find that in Texas, maybe I need to import someone. LMAO.
> 
> ...


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm not sure if this guys cs attitude is amazing arrogance, or alarming ignorance. 

Someone who is trusting you with their equipment, and paying you, can be a lil pushy, esp after a long wait. 

If someone likes you and your work, they may tell 10 people. 

If they don't...they start a thread on line. Ask wade stewart. 

And I wouldn't go out of my way to piss off the oems either. They are in business to make money. If someone else can provide a reasonable service for half the cost, then they get the business. Do you not think these guys talk at the bar or on the golf course at CES? Eventually the word gets out. 

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I've sent a bunch of my audio stuff to TIPS for both repair and mods, and only once had a problem but Ray fixed it right away at no charge (thats the way it has to be when its not the customers fault, and *with no attitude*). He never took more than 3 days to finish on my stuff and shipped it right after it was completed. So big props to Ray @ TIPS.

I use to work at Oreilly's auto parts and ass holes would come there all the time, I learn that you just have to very kind and nice no matter what, if they dont calm down all you have to do is let someone else handle it. If no one can handle it simply tell the customer "Sir we're sorry we weren't able to help you, please visit our district manager with your problem." Give him the address and send him packing, not that hard.


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## aV8ter (Sep 4, 2009)

Wow. This is interesting. Also just remembered I have a DBR refurbished sae1200d in my basement that that smoked on initial power up lol. Not really complaining about that, just ironic. It is my fault really as I chose not to send it in under warranty...


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

aV8ter said:


> Wow. This is interesting. Also just remembered I have a DBR refurbished sae1200d in my basement that that smoked on initial power up lol. Not really complaining about that, just ironic. It is my fault really as I chose not to send it in under warranty...


That can happen, even it's one of the amps from the big OEM's, but yeah, you should have sent it in under warranty.

I agree on the 2 weeks time frame, at first the problem was we ran out of parts, then the problem with a tech getting hospitalized, and only left 2 of us here to do all the work, just couldn't get it done.

And yes I am just that alarmingly arrogant. And yeah, Im on the golf course with them, LOL.... You guys are really cracking me up with some of the comments....


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Not trying to give you ****! I know how it is but you have to give your butt sometimes to make a customer happy; I do it every day! Wal-Mart is a pain in my ass but I always give them what they want. You never know when the pain in the ass customer will give you lots of business





db-r said:


> That can happen, even it's one of the amps from the big OEM's, but yeah, you should have sent it in under warranty.
> 
> I agree on the 2 weeks time frame, at first the problem was we ran out of parts, then the problem with a tech getting hospitalized, and only left 2 of us here to do all the work, just couldn't get it done.
> 
> And yes I am just that alarmingly arrogant. And yeah, Im on the golf course with them, LOL.... You guys are really cracking me up with some of the comments....


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> That can happen, even it's one of the amps from the big OEM's, but yeah, you should have sent it in under warranty.
> 
> I agree on the 2 weeks time frame, at first the problem was we ran out of parts, then the problem with a tech getting hospitalized, and only left 2 of us here to do all the work, just couldn't get it done.
> 
> And yes I am just that alarmingly arrogant. And yeah, Im on the golf course with them, LOL.... You guys are really cracking me up with some of the comments....


Glad you find this all funny.

I want to thank you personally for enlightening us on your business practices and how we can go f ourselves if we don't like it.
How brilliant was it on your part to post the depth of your unmitigated gall for everyone to see in this never-going-away thread.

I had six amps lined up for you to recondition when I contacted your company about the costs and process.
BTW, love your statement of we don't have time to talk on the phone, so use this internet form and take a number.
You turned me down stating you don't work on PPI anymore, and I will truly thank the lord on my knees tonight that you did.

Funny thing about this thread is that it's not a he said she said argument. Your very own system of internet contact forms shows you didn't live up to your time frame, and when he called you on it, you threatened him in the same spirited manner of Seinfeld's Soup Nazi.

"NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!"

The original OP was completely in the right on this one and handled himself in a very civil manner.
I applaud 2chGUY for standing up and bringing this to our attention.

Your lack of action and threatening demeanor left him very few options and now your are going to have to deal with the consequences. 

Then to top it all off, you impuned all Texans with that ignorant statement about not finding a Texan that can do nice cs.
Unreal.

So, you think this is just one complaint?
Take a look at the ever growing view count for this thread.
And it won't stop here; threads will be started in all the other CA sites with links back to your very words posted in this one.

You made a huge mistake today.
You could have come on here and offered an olive branch to the original OP, but you let your attitude run your mouth.

Lastly, I have a few questions for you.

Do you get it now?
Do you hear what we are saying?
Did you learn anything?

God, I hope so.

Seven years in business and you think you're the king of the amp repair world.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Is that vegi soup? Just wondering because I like vegi soup!



PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> "NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!"


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Glad you find this all funny.
> 
> I want to thank you personally for enlightening us on your business practices and how we can go f ourselves if we don't like it.
> How brilliant was it on your part to post the depth of your unmitigated gall for everyone to see in this never-going-away thread.
> ...


Ha! Well said Artie!

It'd be cool if this thread could get a sticky... Just sayin...

DBr better hope his future customers dint do Internet research first.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

LOL you guys really are funny. No we don't work on the older amps anymore, we send them all to Zed Audio, they have parts and things that we would never have because Zed built alot of those amps back in the day for those old school OEM's.

You guys do whatever you want with this thread, I've said my piece on this matter.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

Lookie lookie, one of db-r's big customers has found this thread.

Jacob, I hope he doesn't treat you the way he does us little folk!

If there is someone who knows how to treat a customer right, it's Jacob. Maybe you can enlighten us.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

db-r said:


> LOL you guys really are funny. No we don't work on the older amps anymore, we send them all to Zed Audio, they have parts and things that we would never have because Zed built alot of those amps back in the day for those old school OEM's.
> 
> You guys do whatever you want with this thread, I've said my piece on this matter.


Maybe if you weren't on here trying to defend your lack of customer service, you could be repairing the next guys amp that is going to be pissed off because you over promise and under deliver. 

BTW, whatever went on in your shop that caused the delays is YOUR problem, not the customers. Man up here buddy!!!


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> LOL you guys really are funny. No we don't work on the older amps anymore, we send them all to Zed Audio, they have parts and things that we would never have because Zed built alot of those amps back in the day for those old school OEM's.
> 
> You guys do whatever you want with this thread, I've said my piece on this matter.


Your nonchalant attitude ammuses me the most because you keep coming back to defend yourself. If you really didnt care you wouldnt have posted in this thread at all. So now, including in the OP, thats twice that youve proven to not be a man of your word!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

If anyone knows the "truth" about how we are here at dB-r Jacob would be it. Been with Sundown since 2007. He can tell you I am a little rough around the edges to deal with, but always do him right and always honest.


I do care, but I have to stick with my way of doing things, otherwise, I'd find something else to do.....


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

db-r said:


> Our rep is very stellar, where did you find something bad? Did you read it all the way through?
> 
> .



well...I just did...when I read the emails back and forth between you two...the bad that is..

My amp tech can do anything you and your pose can and he can get my amp and fix it same day and send it back to me. weeks time tops. 

and before you say he isnt as good as you, he is contracted by the likes of Alpine and Pioneer. 

this is the worst and funniest stuff at same time in same thread I have seen in my entire life. 

but I hadnt finished it yet so ..


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

db-r said:


> If anyone knows the "truth" about how we are here at dB-r Jacob would be it. Been with Sundown since 2007. He can tell you I am a little rough around the edges to deal with, but always do him right and always honest.
> 
> 
> I do care, but I have to stick with my way of doing things, otherwise, I'd find something else to do.....


I'd be willing to bet that you did not tell him to "not be pushy, or else you can **** off".


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

well I finished it and again all I can tell anyone else who reads this is I know a couple amp techs who can take care of your needs and be nice and polite about it. 

one is in Vegas and one is here in Louisiana. 

the one in Vegas is my usual and he has done work here for a few of us and I have referred quite a few people to him. 

if you choose to use the guy here in my area you can also do that. he fixed my Optidrive because shipping was going to kill me to send it in and pay to get it back.


oh and not knocking Zed Audio cause I love the new stuff but some of his techs need a little more practice or something.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

db-r said:


> And yes I am just that alarmingly arrogant. And yeah, Im on the golf course with them, LOL.... You guys are really cracking me up with some of the comments....



more than enough for me to say I am glad I never bought any of your repaired amps and will never send it to you to fix. I would rather throw it in the river.

its funny but in bad taste...but I guess if this had been my amp I would be pissed at your attitude. 

Karma..will take care of it I feel.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah, I know a good amp tech in Louisiana, he's probably reading this getting a good laugh.

I know some of you guys think really that I should just be all like "ohhhh, I'm so sorry and stuff" but I just can't be like that, learned that years ago, there are crappy customers out there too that will screw you over. Been screwed over enough to be bitter, and that's just all I can really say about that. If I started naming names and pointing fingers at those people all hell would break loose in the car audio industry so I got to just chill on that, even though I like "stirring the pot" occasionally I don't need to put more out there than I should, not necessarily for the sake of my business, but because some of these OEM's have more lawyer money than I do.....

I got 15 amps to ship out tonight, yeah that's right, so I better get back to it.

Nite ;-)


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

db-r said:


> Yeah, I know a good amp tech in Louisiana, he's probably reading this getting a good laugh.
> 
> 
> Nite ;-)



actually, I know more than one but I have only talked to Perry Babin and not ever sent him one. The other one is new to me and I have just recently met him.

My normal one has had to fix some of Zeds carnage before..if that says anything


----------



## datcrew (Apr 2, 2011)

db-r said:


> I agree on the 2 weeks time frame, at first the problem was we ran out of parts, then the problem with a tech getting hospitalized, and only left 2 of us here to do all the work, just couldn't get it done.
> 
> And yes I am just that alarmingly arrogant.


I run a small buisness....if someone ill or I run out of something that a customer needs...i will do ANYTHING to sort the problem out.....I don't even like the customer knowing I have a problem...the customer comes first and I won't let them down.

And being arrogant is so not good for your business....
I feel sorry for you cause your gonna get flamed in here,when if you had been more polite,you could of actually got away with your shoddy service....no one in this climate wants to lose any business.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

datcrew said:


> I run a small buisness....if someone ill or I run out of something that a customer needs...i will do ANYTHING to sort the problem out.....I don't even like the customer knowing I have a problem...the customer comes first and I won't let them down.
> 
> And being arrogant is so not good for your business....
> I feel sorry for you cause your gonna get flamed in here,when if you had been more polite,you could of actually got away with your shoddy service....no one in this climate wants to lose any business.


Not trying or wanting to get "away" with anything. The only thing I worry about running this business is shoddy work, will not do it. Being nice doesn't matter. The work we do is excellent, and that's all that really matters in the end. As for time frame, ask around, most of the time it's 1-2 weeks as we state, hell, 99.9% of the time it is. You guys have no idea how many amps we repair here. Sometimes we get pallets of them and turn them around in less than 1 week. That's the kind of business I like, if it weren't for that, I'd be outta here...

Flame on, it's entertaining, and not the first time I have been flamed on some message board, been playing on message boards since the old BBS days of the late 80's early 90's. Been around the car audio business that long as well. I just say whatever the hell I want to say, until the lawyer money factor starts interfering anyway... Only reason I will ever bite my lip... You can quote that.


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## rugdnit (Dec 24, 2007)

db-r said:


> LOL you guys really are funny. No we don't work on the older amps anymore, we send them all to Zed Audio, they have parts and things that we would never have because Zed built alot of those amps back in the day for those old school OEM's.
> 
> You guys do whatever you want with this thread, I've said my piece on this matter.


As much as dual mono guy hates Mantz.... You sir... are WINNING. Good luck to you.


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

Why get your equipment repaired by a jerk when there are 1000+ qualified techs out there... in the soup nazi words: No Business For You!!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

oldskewl said:


> Why get your equipment repaired by a jerk when there are 1000+ qualified techs out there... in the soup nazi words: No Business For You!!


Because that statement is false, there are not 1000+ qualified techs out there, at least not in the amp repair business. If there were that much competition for my business, do you really think I would have such a mouth on me?


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

db-r said:


> Because that statement is false, there are not 1000+ qualified techs out there, at least not in the amp repair business. If there were that much competition for my business, do you really think I would have such a mouth on me?



YES, THERE IS! There are many, many honest and respectful repair shops out there, two in my home town as a matter of fact. Walt at Elite Service in Eau Claire Wisconsin has been getting my business for 20+ years... he just repaired my SS Ref four channel, $100 for a new, direct replacement power supply installed with a warranty! 

I hope this is the "beginning of the end" for douche bag repairs.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah, and they all end up calling me asking me what the chips are on the circuit boards with the numbers rubbed off. It's really just not that simple you can't just repair some of these things you need inside information and hookups from the factory to do repairs on a lot of this stuff. But of course, everyone (but me, LOL) is an expert and I have no idea what I am talking about right? It always goes in this direction....

And no not even close to the end for dB-r.... so funny, like one post on the internet is just gonna kill my business. You guys have no idea how it works behind the scenes... Not saying that if EVERYONE actually read this stuff on diyma.com that EVERYONE would stop dealing with dB-r, but the thing is this, it's just not that popular of a message board here, and if you go copying and pasting it to all the car audio related message boards on the internet, you will get some not so expected responses from my good customers on those other message boards that know how dB-r really is to deal with, which isn't bad at all... LMAO, keep it coming...


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> LOL you guys really are funny. No we don't work on the older amps anymore, we send them all to Zed Audio, they have parts and things that we would never have because Zed built alot of those amps back in the day for those old school OEM's.
> 
> You guys do whatever you want with this thread, I've said my piece on this matter.


Really?
Then maybe you should pull this webpage off your website.

dB-r Electronics

Thick as a brick.
Has a golden opportunity here to try and make things right and he's still is dug in deeper than a Louisiana tick.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Really?
> Then maybe you should pull this webpage off your website.
> 
> dB-r Electronics
> ...


I know, I'm just really "something" aint I? 

Yeah we used to repair the old schools, till we ran into a lot of problems with the parts availability and design problems that just couldn't be corrected, not to mention we were losing money repairing those thing because we spent so much time and money stocking parts for all of it that at some point, back in 2008 I think, we just stopped accepting those older amps for repair and started referring them to Zed Audio, which as I said before, can better handle those older amps as they were the manufacturer for alot of those brands back in the day and had stockpiles of schematics and parts.

I am done for the night, got a busy day tomorrow, so just gonna have to leave it at this post, maybe I'll come back tomorrow to see more "flameage" maybe not, after all I got lots of work to do....


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> Yeah, I know a good amp tech in Louisiana, he's probably reading this getting a good laugh.
> 
> I know some of you guys think really that I should just be all like "ohhhh, I'm so sorry and stuff" but I just can't be like that, learned that years ago, there are crappy customers out there too that will screw you over. Been screwed over enough to be bitter, and that's just all I can really say about that. If I started naming names and pointing fingers at those people all hell would break loose in the car audio industry so I got to just chill on that, even though I like "stirring the pot" occasionally I don't need to put more out there than I should, not necessarily for the sake of my business, but because some of these OEM's have more lawyer money than I do.....
> 
> ...


14....you had to return 2chGUY's amp remember?

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> 14....you had to return 2chGUY's amp remember?
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


LOL! :laugh:


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

db-r said:


> If there were that much competition for my business, do you really think I would have such a mouth on me?


You might have to eat these words...


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Knobby Digital said:


> You might have to eat these words...


DUDE!

I can't even type after reading that! 

:z:

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Everyone, don't take this too far. You might not like his business practices or his attitude but remember that you don't have to use his services. So no need to make this a personal vendetta and type vulgar bad taste comments. No more.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

Impressive mouth, nevertheless...


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

who would really want to give their money to someone knowing how the owner thinks about you as a customer? 

not me. I work for my money and he is not the only game in town. 

I think nobody would be replying to this if it were not for his attitude.


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## sirvent_95 (Feb 14, 2011)

*I think my solution would have been as follows:
*
I promise a customer a certain turnaround time for repair.

Unforeseen circumstances make that impossible.

I tell customer I can ship amp back before servicing it,
if he wants a faster turnaround time.

(He was very clear, he didn't want to wait a long time)

Customer can then choose if he will now wait.

I don't think it was wise to say "We're opening it today" or "We're waiting
for parts"

This doesn't violate your "Nice Work, not Nice Guy" policy and you're
being completely upfront.

Perhaps your volume of work makes it too hard to stay in contact with
individual customers? Perhaps a certain employee could/should be 
appointed to deal with retail-level customers directly. 

I can see both sides of this to a certain point, but you were aware the customer did not want a long wait and you should have been more transparent with your communication.


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

db-r said:


> If there were that much competition for my business, do you really think I would have such a mouth on me?


So, what you're saying is that you are an ******* because you think you can be? Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

db-r said:


> I know, I'm just really "something" aint I?
> 
> Yeah we used to repair the old schools, till we ran into a lot of problems with the parts availability and design problems that just couldn't be corrected, not to mention we were losing money repairing those thing because we spent so much time and money stocking parts for all of it that at some point, back in 2008 I think, we just stopped accepting those older amps for repair and started referring them to Zed Audio, which as I said before, can better handle those older amps as they were the manufacturer for alot of those brands back in the day and had stockpiles of schematics and parts.
> 
> I am done for the night, got a busy day tomorrow, so just gonna have to leave it at this post, maybe I'll come back tomorrow to see more "flameage" maybe not, after all I got lots of work to do....


You obviously don't believe in Karma either.....good luck with that!


----------



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

generalkorrd said:


> So, what you're saying is that you are an ******* because you think you can be? Wow. Just wow.


funny


----------



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

From link above to DB-r provided by Jax.
"The Art Series amps have this drawing on them, not sure what it is supposed
to mean, has a worm, 3 globes, some rocks and 2 or three triangles. I
would love to hear the story of where this drawing came from and why they
used it."

Quoted from DB-r above.....

"it's just not that popular of a message board here"

Ya know... for DIYMA being such a hole in the wall we do get a lot of odd balls... in fact, I'm pretty sure the lady that did the art work might have stopped by here a time or two. I'm also pretty sure she is rather nice.

But I'm not an insider and I wouldn't have a clue.


I know I'm sorry for a few referrals I've given out....


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

Infraction.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

oldskewl said:


> .....


Dude that is uncalled for. I will not however state my opinion on accuracy.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

turbo5upra said:


> Dude that is uncalled for. I will not however state my opinion on accuracy.


:laugh:


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> Dude that is uncalled for. I will not however state my opinion on accuracy.


My bad. Sometimes I forget just how PC this world has become... sigh. I miss the old days of telling it how it is.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

You guys are too funny, sorry, I just don't feel the need to apologize, we just don't deal with pushy customers here, it's just that simple, is it just that hard to accept that that is our policy? Is it really that unreasonable? It's not like I just started being this way, we have been doing business the exact same way since 2005, if it was sooooo bad like you all make it out to be (because you are speculating based on my mouth, not experience with my company) don't you think we would have already been out of business? Just saying.... Trying to be realistic here and not all touchy feeley....


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

db-r said:


> You guys are too funny, sorry, I just don't feel the need to apologize, we just don't deal with pushy customers here, it's just that simple, is it just that hard to accept that that is our policy? Is it really that unreasonable? It's not like I just started being this way, we have been doing business the exact same way since 2005, if it was sooooo bad like you all make it out to be (because you are speculating based on my mouth, not experience with my company) don't you think we would have already been out of business? Just saying.... Trying to be realistic here and not all touchy feeley....


Why do you keep posting if you are even a tiny bit worried about your rep! Get to work, you have millions of amps to fix (or just string customers along with)....jerk off!


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

Your customer was far from pushy.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> You guys are too funny, sorry, I just don't feel the need to apologize, we just don't deal with pushy customers here, it's just that simple, is it just that hard to accept that that is our policy? Is it really that unreasonable? It's not like I just started being this way, we have been doing business the exact same way since 2005, if it was sooooo bad like you all make it out to be (because you are speculating based on my mouth, not experience with my company) don't you think we would have already been out of business? Just saying.... Trying to be realistic here and not all touchy feeley....


Since 2005?! Wow, I didn't realize you were so well established!!! 
Pardon me...

Perhaps it's no coincidence that at about the same time period the car audio industry went to ****, people like you came into existence. 
Just sayin....


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

turbo5upra said:


> From link above to DB-r provided by Jax.
> "The Art Series amps have this drawing on them, not sure what it is supposed
> to mean, has a worm, 3 globes, some rocks and 2 or three triangles. I
> would love to hear the story of where this drawing came from and why they
> ...


CHY is the best of us!
I just talked with her on Monday and she is doing well preparing her garden for the upcoming winter.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

nm lol


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> You guys are too funny, sorry, I just don't feel the need to apologize, we just don't deal with pushy customers here, it's just that simple, is it just that hard to accept that that is our policy? Is it really that unreasonable? It's not like I just started being this way, we have been doing business the exact same way since 2005, if it was sooooo bad like you all make it out to be (because you are speculating based on my mouth, not experience with my company) don't you think we would have already been out of business? Just saying.... Trying to be realistic here and not all touchy feeley....


Aaaaaaa, I'm bored now.
You've flamed yourself down to the ground buddy.
Links are already starting to show up in other sites.
Do us all a favor a lurk somewhere else.

This one's going to hurt for a long, long time.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

I keep posting because I like the arguing back and forth, I should have been a lawyer, I'd make a lot more money, LOL... 

I am working! I got techs doing most of the work here, I just supervise and do the technical stuff that gets them all scratching their heads and stuff. Doing shipping and admin tasks all morning, on the computer constantly, cannot resist coming here, the content is wonderful and very entertaining!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Do us all a favor a lurk somewhere else.
> 
> This one's going to hurt for a long, long time.
> 
> ...


You wish, LOL. We are busy working, I just like jacking with you guys cuz you get all bent out of shape and call me names and stuff and I think it's highly entertaining, just throwing fuel on the fire, you know I can't possibly treat my customers as bad you all think I do, or would have been out of business a long time ago.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> You wish, LOL. We are busy working, I just like jacking with you guys cuz you get all bent out of shape and call me names and stuff and I think it's highly entertaining, just throwing fuel on the fire, you know I can't possibly treat my customers as bad you all think I do, or would have been out of business a long time ago.


LMAO! A long time ago you weren't in business!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

You can bet just about anyone here will not give money to your company now after this. 

This tiny forum has a lot of smart people. This isn't a boom boom forum. 

When this forum spots a hot deal the supply pretty much evaporates from just the members on here. 


But back to topic, you fail to realize that while you might have been fine all this time there are members constantly looking for repair sources other than you. 

Might not be because of you at all but they are looking and finding them. 

I used to have a different tech do my PG amps but when I had to wait 6months for a repair I had to find another. 

Now I have a great one who is most likely quicker than most and he does it correctly. 

My point is times are changing and if your smart you had better realize that what might have worked before may not work forever. 

Now a person may be forced to decide not to fix at all vs sending an amp out and waiting a month or two. 

Most people generally don't like to wait months for a return of goods unless they have a backup or they know in advance. 

What happened here was not either of those and your attitude didn't help at all


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

The problem with your argument is that we generally don't take more than 1-2 weeks to get a repair done and back on it's way to the customer. That is a FACT. There are isolated incidents, but it's not a common thing here at dB-r. Problem is only the ones with bad experiences post up. The rest are off somewhere happy to listen to their tunes again in 1-2 weeks time.

This is an isolated incident with extreme circumstances (1 of 3 techs being hospitalized for a month during our peak time of the year). I just get mouthy and have a dgaf attitude because I know the real deal here and so do my good customers who constantly are referring other customers to me because of their good experiences. I have nothing to worry about. It's all been made out to seem like a really bad deal went down here with this one guy, but in reality, he just got a little pushy with ME at the wrong time, and I sent him his amp back, I paid for the shipping back to him. That's really all that has transpired here. It's not a common occurrence, I can assure you. But am I going to apologize to this guy? Maybe, I do feel bad about it, yes, but all he had to do was accept that we don't do pushy, back down just a hair, and we would have had his amp repaired perfectly and on it's way back to him. Now he has to dig around to find another shop that can repair HIS amp, remember, it's not a little 200W x 2 amp for SQ, it's a big ass RD 4KW amplifier that only a couple shops here in the US are even capable of repairing properly. Whole different ball game when you get into the big SPL amps compared the small SQ amps.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

db-r said:


> The problem with your argument is that we generally don't take more than 1-2 weeks to get a repair done and back on it's way to the customer. That is a FACT. There are isolated incidents, but it's not a common thing here at dB-r. Problem is only the ones with bad experiences post up. The rest are off somewhere happy to listen to their tunes again in 1-2 weeks time.
> 
> This is an isolated incident with extreme circumstances (1 of 3 techs being hospitalized for a month during our peak time of the year). I just get mouthy and have a dgaf attitude because I know the real deal here and so do my good customers who constantly are referring other customers to me because of their good experiences. I have nothing to worry about. It's all been made out to seem like a really bad deal went down here with this one guy, but in reality, he just got a little pushy with ME at the wrong time, and I sent him his amp back, I paid for the shipping back to him. That's really all that has transpired here. It's not a common occurrence, I can assure you. But am I going to apologize to this guy? Maybe, I do feel bad about it, yes, but all he had to do was accept that we don't do pushy, back down just a hair, and we would have had his amp repaired perfectly and on it's way back to him. Now he has to dig around to find another shop that can repair HIS amp, remember, it's not a little 200W x 2 amp for SQ, it's a big ass RD 4KW amplifier that only a couple shops here in the US are even capable of repairing properly. Whole different ball game when you get into the big SPL amps compared the small SQ amps.


And for the millionth time "HE WAS NOT BEING PUSHY"!!! What he did was not pushy, you have a horrible attitude regarding customer service and it WILL come back to haunt you! Having problems means you have customers, how you deal with those problems determines how long you stay in business.....PERIOD!!!

Your attitude on here is IMO is worse than what you did to this customer and shows your true colors!!!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Nobody remembers the good experiences but everyone remembers a bad one. 

Didn't your pappy tell you that ?


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Only time will tell. So far it's all good. Sorry you don't like my attitude, it only affects my CS, it does not affect my work quality, can promise you that.  Maybe one day I will hire someone to do CS for me, yeah, I've been told that about 1000 times now. Maybe it's time to consider.... Not that I am afraid, it's just that I'd rather be doing something else than handling CS.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

JAX said:


> Nobody remembers the good experiences but everyone remembers a bad one.
> 
> Didn't your pappy tell you that ?


No, only my customers told me that. Pappy was a car/truck salesman, well actually the manager of a major car dealership and made lots of money!!! But yeah, I think I may have gotten some of my attitude from him. He was the boss, and he worked his way up there, not by being nice either, he just always told the customers like it really was (no sugar coating) and it worked for him, he made it to the top by doing good work, selling lots and lots of cars/trucks for 30 years, he finally retired.


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

How long should somebody wait before they start getting "pushy"? 
3 months? 6 months? A year?


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

BigAl205 said:


> How long should somebody wait before they start getting "pushy"?
> 3 months? 6 months? A year?


LOL depends on if you want your amp sent back and repaired properly or just want it shipped back broken. Remember it was not 3 months, we didn't get his amp in until like July 15th, he started the ticket months before he actually sent it in.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

I guess I'll give an example of being nice. I had repaired this one amp for a guy, and a year later he finally calls me up and pays for the repair, LOL... Our policy is sell after 30 days from invoice date. I was being "nice" to the guy. 

There have been lots of other same situations. I'm not all "mean", I am nice most of the time, just can't handle pushy, it gets on my nerves the most out of all of it. He just got a little pushy, not super pushy, as someone pointed out, but I did warn him first, and he chose to back out, so I gladly paid the $25 out of my own pocket to ship his amp back to him. End of story.


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> LOL depends on if you want your amp sent back and repaired properly or just want it shipped back broken. Remember it was not 3 months, we didn't get his amp in until like July 15th, he started the ticket months before he actually sent it in.


Question:

If I go to burger king (who says they'll make a burger my way) and ask for mustard, then they do not put mustard on my burger; when I tell them to take the burger back and put mustard on it right away, am I being pushy?!

Or are you the type of guy who'd spit on my burger just to show me a lesson for expecting you to do what you said you'd do?


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> I guess I'll give an example of being nice. I had repaired this one amp for a guy, and a year later he finally calls me up and pays for the repair, LOL... Our policy is sell after 30 days from invoice date. I was being "nice" to the guy.
> 
> There have been lots of other same situations. I'm not all "mean", I am nice most of the time, just can't handle pushy, it gets on my nerves the most out of all of it. He just got a little pushy, not super pushy, as someone pointed out, but I did warn him first, and he chose to back out, so I gladly paid the $25 out of my own pocket to ship his amp back to him. End of story.


It's like being in school; you can be a straight A student and 1 F negates all that hard work. The companies who have the best reputations have better CS so they never have to worry a couple Fs screwing there business up.


----------



## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> Question:
> 
> If I go to burger king (who says they'll make a burger my way) and ask for mustard, then they do not put mustard on my burger; when I tell them to take the burger back and put mustard on it right away, am I being pushy?!
> 
> Or are you the type of guy who'd spit on my burger just to show me a lesson for expecting you to do what you said you'd do?


LOL, no I would take it back and put mustard on it. LOL. I wouldn't want anyone to spit in my burger either. Might catch some nasty stuff from that, always nice to the food service people, it's a health matter, nothing like a "car amp" that can easily be replaced. Bad analogy.

I usually just roll out and eat the mayo on the burger, not that big of a deal to me, I pay $3-4 for the burger, not the mayo or mustard, that's about $0.01 of the burger. So I still feel I got what I paid for, as long it's still a burger. Now if I order a burger, and they give me a taco or something instead, yeah, I'll take it back, but still nice, don't want noone spitting in my burger.


----------



## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> It's like being in school; you can be a straight A student and 1 F negates all that hard work. The companies who have the best reputations have better CS so they never have to worry a couple Fs screwing there business up.


It's not like that all the time, it's an isolated incident, it's like getting 1 F in one class in one period of an entire school year, as long as the rest are all A's you still pass with flying colors and noone even notices the F you got that one time.


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## 2chGUY (Feb 1, 2009)

Just to be clear....

I posted the original repair thread on behalf of another. Not that he didn't think it was a great idea, but he was simply so put off by the whole situation he'd rather forget about it entirely. I have no affiliation with this situation other than believing that it should be brought to light in hope others don't get blind sided by db-r's customer service.

Oh, and it's ChrisB that has a prob with Mantz...


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> LOL, no I would take it back and put mustard on it. LOL. I wouldn't want anyone to spit in my burger either. Might catch some nasty stuff from that, always nice to the food service people, it's a health matter, nothing like a "car amp" that can easily be replaced. Bad analogy.
> 
> I usually just roll out and eat the mayo on the burger, not that big of a deal to me, I pay $3-4 for the burger, not the mayo or mustard, that's about $0.01 of the burger. So I still feel I got what I paid for, as long it's still a burger. Now if I order a burger, and they give me a taco or something instead, yeah, I'll take it back, but still nice, don't want noone spitting in my burger.


Only someone with no concept of CS would think this is a bad analogy. 

Like it your not your business is in the service industry. "Service" being the keyword there; as in "customer SERVICE"!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

2chGUY said:


> Just to be clear....
> 
> I posted the original repair thread on behalf of another. Not that he didn't think it was a great idea, but he was simply so put off by the whole situation he'd rather forget about it entirely. I have no affiliation with this situation other than believing that it should be brought to light in hope others don't get blind sided by db-r's customer service.
> 
> Oh, and it's ChrisB that has a prob with Mantz...



I'm really sorry he was so put off by it. It's just our policy here, always has been. 

And hey, at least I haven't resorted to name calling or any of that stuff, just arguing my case with the "jury" here. Got to give me some kudo's for not resorting to that...??


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

:behead:


/thread


----------



## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> Only someone with no concept of CS would think this is a bad analogy.
> 
> Like it your not your business is in the service industry. "Service" being the keyword there; as in "*REPAIR* SERVICE"!


Fixed!


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> Fixed!


Repair service, food service, HVAC service, customer service...

It's all the same man!


----------



## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> Repair service, food service, HVAC service, customer service...
> 
> It's all the same man!


I thought they were paying me for Repair Service, not customer service? I guess your right, I just don't have the concept. I'll hire someone to do the CS soon, the tech guys need my help more than the customers need me for CS...


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

2chGUY said:


> Oh, and it's ChrisB that has a prob with Mantz...


Guilty as charged. Granted, the only issue I had with him as of late was one of his fanbois telling me that the new Zed Audio amplifiers are "Made in the USA".

Designed in the USA? I'll give him that one.

Assembled in the USA? He can have that one too.

Made in the USA as outlined in the FTC guidelines? I question that statement!

Take for instance, his product description:









I wonder if his products truly meet the FTC's definition of Made in the USA?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Man, I am just sooooo shocked by how much time you have responding to us in this thread. I thought you were backed up??


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

db-r said:


> The problem with your argument is that we generally don't take more than 1-2 weeks to get a repair done and back on it's way to the customer. That is a FACT. There are isolated incidents, but it's not a common thing here at dB-r. Problem is only the ones with bad experiences post up. The rest are off somewhere happy to listen to their tunes again in 1-2 weeks time.



The problem with your argument is you are of the mindset that your level of work is subject of discussion rather than your utter lack of care for the customer. 

Given the fact you still don't get it I can't imagine you're doing yourself any service making a case for yourself on any level here.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

db-r said:


> I guess I'll give an example of being nice. I had repaired this one amp for a guy, and a year later he finally calls me up and pays for the repair, LOL... Our policy is sell after 30 days from invoice date. I was being "nice" to the guy.


Imagine if you had sent that guy an email asking if he would send your money and he responded with "don't get pushy, I don't do pushy, you've been warned."


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Cliffs:

dude big Rude used to be cool,
now he thinks he's got rockstar status because he's good at fixing amps.
Never again will I recommend you. 
Never.

Edit: I'm going back to find all the posts where I recommended you, to UNrecommend you.


----------



## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

ChrisB said:


> I wonder if his products truly meet the FTC's definition of Made in the USA?


I can answer that for you, but my lawyer money won't let me.


----------



## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> The problem with your argument is you are of the mindset that your level of work is subject of discussion rather than your utter lack of care for the customer.
> 
> Given the fact you still don't get it I can't imagine you're doing yourself any service making a case for yourself on any level here.


No, I get it, my point is I do care about the customer, more so about whether their amp works right or not than I am worried about their opinion of our customer service..... 

This is an isolated incident. That's it. I'm normally nice  

I just like the arguing back and forth here, it's entertainment in my dull work day.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

imjustjason said:


> Imagine if you had sent that guy an email asking if he would send your money and he responded with "don't get pushy, I don't do pushy, you've been warned."


Haha, yeah, but I got his amp, LOL.

I once had a customer send an amp in for repair, pay for it, and then once he got it back he filed a dispute with Paypal and said that the payment on his credit card was not authorized by him. I made paypal refund me my money, and they refunded his. I wish all my customers where as nice as I am, I could/should drove over to the guys house in FL and fixed the problem.... But..... I didn't. Cause I'm nice like that.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Damn dB-r is still replying. Where does he find the spare time?


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

TrickyRicky said:


> Damn dB-r is still replying. Where does he find the spare time?


In between shipping amps.


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## DR OBLIVION (Jun 16, 2009)

Wow, now I know where NOT to send an amp for repair.


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

DR OBLIVION said:


> Wow, now I know where NOT to send an amp for repair.


^^X2


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

X3

read this whole thing. I have dealt with enough douchbags in my time. dont need to deal with another one.

I have worked in CS for most of my life. most of the time when people get good CS, they say nothing unless asked. if they get really bad CS, they tell everyone they know. so a pissed off customer will hurt you more than you know.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

I would not be shocked if companies distance themselves from this kind of attitude..... Not saying who.... Just sayin'


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> I would not be shocked if companies distance themselves from this kind of attitude..... Not saying who.... Just sayin'


^Yep


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

I know at least one customer of db-r's who received a ****ty repair service. Thing arrived in pieces.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

I wanted to add that I am a repairman myself. I repair devices that not to many other people in my area can fix. I would never disrespect a customer, even if I knew there was NOWHERE else for them to go. It's just bad business.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Had a couple amps repaired by Chris.. never anything to complain about.. he also spent like half an hour on the phone helping to diagnose amp noise with me. Can't please everyone


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

The lulz were had in this thread. If I didn't know better I'd say dB-r is from El Paso.  I know better tho. All I know is when you're good, you're good, all else is meh. I've never dealt with dB-r personally but I have dealt with his kind in dealings with big money involved. Yeah the guy I dealt with was an a-hole and snapped back ruthlessly, but damn it, I needed results, and he delivered. Cant argue with results. Good luck in the future dB-r. Maybe you can fix my big amps when they break. I throw away my 80w x 4ch amps when they break.  They're only $80 on ebay anyways.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Did a great job for me as well. Plus i bought a refurb off of him. Still playing flawlessly. 

So far regarding all the big amp repair facilities in regards to their online presence i have not seen one that did not come off as arrogant.

TIPS
Mantz
Db-r

I may be missing some other big ones. But search out topics on here and there are several regarding the other ones.

As for 1000's of other amp repair facilities, when I have looked for a couple of amps I have, there are NOT 1000's and especially not 100 that are set up to do the volume of work that can handle both OEM and private customers.

Let's say that everything in the orininal postings from DB-r are 100% true as to why the 2 week turn around did not happen. As a large repair facility that is still small considering (2 other employees not counting Chris? I believe that is is name), what would you have had him do? do the work for free? Could his final responses been due to increased stress load of being down to the bare minimums of personnel and deadlines to meet? 

If he does great work and has ****ty customer service,odds are he will still succeed. 

If he does bad work and has ****ty customer service he will in the end fail.

Simple as that.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

db-r said:


> Sorry, we don't guarantee to be nice. If we would have finished his amp it would have worked perfectly this is not even the issue, we do the best work and everyone knows this, but no, sorry we aren't the nicest, never promised to be. Don't like it take it somewhere else, it's that simple. We never kiss ass here, never expect it. Want your amp repaired right, if it is something we work on, we will always do it right or won't do it at all, if you want us to be super nice to you and meet deadlines etc, sorry, we just can't always do that.


Seriously? I'm competent _and_ friendly. I think it's you.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

db-r said:


> Because that statement is false, there are not 1000+ qualified techs out there, at least not in the amp repair business. If there were that much competition for my business, do you really think I would have such a mouth on me?


You would have that mouth no matter what. You don't know me because you've never received carnage from my shop. It doesn't happen. I fix the "other guys" devastation, too - but I keep a lid on it. Give it a rest - you are certainly *not* the only competent tech out there.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

envisionelec said:


> You would have that mouth no matter what. You don't know me because you've never received carnage from my shop. It doesn't happen. I fix the "other guys" devastation, too - but I keep a lid on it. Give it a rest - you are certainly *not* the only competent tech out there.


I'll back you up on that one Aaron.
Not to mention your state of the art solutions to problems that you have come up with.
Envisionlec and Minbari are true assets to this website.
You sir, are an embarrasement to the car audio repair industry and give their field of business a black eye with every smug and arrogant post you provide us with.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

See, I got happy customers. Thanks guys, you know how things "really are" dealing with dB-r. Thanks a million!

Now I will apologize to the guy with the RD D5000.1, sorry I snapped at you man, was having a bad day, lots of stress when down to just me and 1 other tech at our peak time of the year.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

OSN said:


> I know at least one customer of db-r's who received a ****ty repair service. Thing arrived in pieces.


What was that? Please do tell, as I don't recall. Was it damaged in shipping or did we do something wrong? If it was shipping, come on man, can't blame us for UPS,FX,and USPOS, trashing stuff, you should see this one box I got today from FedEx. Hell, I'll take pics and post it, improperly packaged (by customer) and box got wet (probably by FedEx).


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## 2chGUY (Feb 1, 2009)

Could be the same guy who linked me to your service thread I posted...

Seems local anyways...


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## Deton Nation (Jul 3, 2009)

Wow.. I was thinking of buying a refurb Sundown unit from them. Glad I didnt. You should be thankful that you have a customer base and that you have a thriving business. So many people are out of work and hurting. Today customer service is the name of the game. If you didnt have such a sour personality and had great customer service who knows how big your company would be. And who wants to go through life being less when you could be more.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Deton Nation said:


> Wow.. I was thinking of buying a refurb Sundown unit from them. Glad I didnt. You should be thankful that you have a customer base and that you have a thriving business. So many people are out of work and hurting. Today customer service is the name of the game. If you didnt have such a sour personality and had great customer service who knows how big your company would be. And who wants to go through life being less when you could be more.


You would like it, don't worry, I am just being an ass because these guys are attacking me here!

Here's one that came in today, ticket #'s blurred out, customer packed it, I guess, I doubt FedEx did, but check it out. He's very lucky that the two amps in the box didn't beat each other to death and that FedEx didn't drop it on the ends of the box, it would have snapped off all the power/speaker/rca terminals etc...


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I'll back you up on that one Aaron.
> Not to mention your state of the art solutions to *problems that you have come up with*.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


It's true, I do come up with my own problems. :laugh: State of the art? Well...I tend to think anyone with unlimited time and typewriters could do it, too.


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

I haven't read through all of this but Chris was a pleasure to work with when he fixed my amplifiers this time last year. I would recommend him to anyone I know in need of amp repair. 

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

minbari said:


> most of the time when people get good CS, they say nothing unless asked. if they get really bad CS, they tell everyone they know. so a pissed off customer will hurt you more than you know.


Words to live by right there.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

If you keep shaking the bushes, I am sure you can get a few more loyalists (minions) to come on here and sing your praises.
Funny how they showed up all at the same time.

Uh oh, better rally the troops to my side so I can say, "See, I'm not so bad!"

*It doesn't matter how good your experience was*, it was all spoiled by his f you attitude towards the customer and to all of us that questioned his way of doing business.

Who the hell in their right mind would subject themselves to that kind of service after reading all his, "I'M RIGHT I'M RIGHT I'M WHHHHAAAAA RIGHT!" posts?
Even those of you that posted in his favor have to be scratching your heads over what he has revealed and even revelled in on this thread.
Makes you wonder what he thinks of you, being that this is his self professed demeanor towards all his customers.
Only sheeple respond positively to that kind of bs.

Please sir, may I have some more?-Oliver Twist

Maybe after reading all his posts, you are even now questioning if you'll be the next to get ***** slapped back when he gets moody.
If I were you, I would strongly reconsider supporting a company that has an owner that laughs at you and all of us like he is untouchable.

Only a Sadist finds enjoyment in other's misery.

And if you do choose to take that chance, then you get what you deserve.

FWIW,

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Db-R no need to be nice now that youve taken a look at the other forums its on more than you think now and the responses are all the same.
If you dont see a loss in your biss ill kiss your ass. Would post links but dont wanna give this ******* any info he can use.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

if you had your house being remodeled and the contractor said it'd take a month to do the remodel. now you wanted to have everything done in time to "suprise" a special family member who was returning home in 2 months . so you agreed to the month explaining that you ddidn't want it to take longer. after the month goes by he said it's gonna take longer. after another 2 weeks he says don't rush it or u can find someone else.

how would that make u feel?


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Good point.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

lol actually that was directed to db-r lol it was an anology for him to ponder i'd be damned if anyone i pay would talk to me like that.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I just did a remodel and my contractor would never have told me don't be pushy.
No one does that anymore!
Not in this economy.
Plus, it's down right wrong.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Something funny was once here...


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## generalkorrd (Jan 10, 2009)

did someone say minions??


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

The ones with one eye better go and have it checked out.... Better make sure the right person takes on the job.


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

How did jimmy2345 get a customer service job?


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

db-r said:


> Now I will apologize to the guy with the RD D5000.1, sorry I snapped at you man, was having a bad day, lots of stress when down to just me and 1 other tech at our peak time of the year.


Wow, this post 13 pages ago would have been some decent public relations for ya. Maybe even give the guy a decent break on your work and a lightning turn around. You might have picked up a lot of business from here. 

When opportunity knocks, open the fing door......you wasted a great chance to pick up business from here. I know there are a lot of collections here with amps needing repair. This little "hole in the wall" site holds a lot of potential business. 


Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

truckerfte said:


> I know there are a lot of collections here with amps needing repair. This little "hole in the wall" site holds a lot of potential business.


We don't service older amplifiers anymore, we refer them all to Zed.

I didn't ask any of those people to come here and haven't looked on any other message board since Tuesday. This one is so entertaining!


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> We don't service older amplifiers anymore, we refer them all to Zed.
> 
> I didn't ask any of those people to come here and haven't looked on any other message board since Tuesday. This one is so entertaining!


Might I suggest a woman? We're not that entertaining.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

db-r said:


> We don't service older amplifiers anymore, we refer them all to Zed.


Please don't. I'm tired of replacing ripped out vias.


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

Wow. Not everyone here uses ancient amplifiers. 

Bet this gets edited out. But since you are here just to get your jollies, and have no interest in any members business, I'm just gonna go ahead and call ya a total tool. Bye. 

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


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## 9mmmac (Dec 14, 2010)

Ya. At least your amp came back in a few weeks. Mine came back in a few MONTHS. And it was in FUBER. (*.*.*.Easy Repair). See this thread for more of Jerry's Kids working with precision electronics: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/industry-shop-talk/81211-soundstream-amplifier-repair.html


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> Might I suggest a woman? We're not that entertaining.


She's out of town, talking to her on the phone right now!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

envisionelec said:


> Please don't. I'm tired of replacing ripped out vias.


It wasn't me!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

thomasluke said:


> Db-R no need to be nice now that youve taken a look at the other forums its on more than you think now and the responses are all the same.
> If you dont see a loss in your biss ill kiss your ass. Would post links but dont wanna give this ******* any info he can use.



I checked the big 5, didn't see anything?


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

db-r said:


> It wasn't me!


No, I was describing the stuff I see coming from the referral's shop. Multiple occasions. 

Look, I understand your POV. I've been there. In the 1990s, I was the only tech at a shop in a 600 mile radius that properly and quickly repaired RF, PG and PPI amps, all without the benefit of a schematic. They were often roached. As much as I hated the work (and sometimes the customers), I never, EVER maintained a publicly disagreeable attitude. Even when I was working for someone else, I behaved as though I was working for myself. For as long as I've been employed I've dreamed of being a business owner. 

I think it was a mistake to be so defensive, but I'm not in your shoes. Maybe it works for you.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

9mmmac said:


> Ya. At least your amp came back in a few weeks. Mine came back in a few MONTHS. And it was in FUBER. (*.*.*.Easy Repair). See this thread for more of Jerry's Kids working with precision electronics: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/industry-shop-talk/81211-soundstream-amplifier-repair.html


It will live. I am able to rebuild the switches and fix all the other issues we discussed. It will be pretty, I promise.


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## TAMUmpower (Jan 29, 2010)

I sent my amp in a year ago and they fixed the blown channel and had it back to me quick enough. Havent had a problem with the amp since. I thought it was good service and a fair price. Just my experience


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> I checked the big 5, didn't see anything?


Which ones are the big 5? Is there any stats that make them bigger or do yo just feel that way cause you frequent there more often?


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> She's out of town, talking to her on the phone right now!


I better be quiet then.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

db-r said:


> You would like it, don't worry, I am just being an ass because I am just an ass!


Fixed it for ya.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Why the drama? If you guys don't like what you see here, don't do business with him.. it's as simple as that.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

its_bacon12 said:


> Why the drama? If you guys don't like what you see here, don't do business with him.. it's as simple as that.


Again, WhoTF is Ryan M? :laugh: 

Everything happens for a reason, panceta...let it fly!


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## 9mmmac (Dec 14, 2010)

envisionelec said:


> It will live. I am able to rebuild the switches and fix all the other issues we discussed. It will be pretty, I promise.


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## PaulD (Nov 16, 2006)

db-r is right about one thing, it doesn't take much to get you guys all riled up ...


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

You don't throw rocks at a hornets nest, that's just dumb!


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

db-r said:


> I checked the big 5, didn't see anything?


WTF is the big 5?


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

thomasluke said:


> WTF is the big 5?


What did the "big 5" fingers say to the face?...................





SLAP!!!:laugh: - Rick James RIP

Thats what it means.


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

TrickyRicky said:


> What did the "big 5" fingers say to the face?...................
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cocaine, its a hell of a drug.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

thomasluke said:


> WTF is the big 5?


The big 3 but then you run one positive and one negative to the driverseat and clip them onto your junk.....


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> The big 3 but then you run one positive and one negative to the driverseat and clip them onto your junk.....


You laugh but my best bud is a mechanic and his favorite prank (aside from tying zip ties to the drive shaft) is to run a small (18 ga. or so) wire from the distributor and stick the other end under the seat cushion. That will light a fire under your nuts!


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## crispin (May 23, 2011)

I will never send an amp to them.
I cannot believe what an ass he is.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

crispin said:


> I will never send an amp to them.
> I cannot believe what an ass he is.


Hey man! Whenever your in the Guiness Book of World Records for being the best amp repair man that ever lived you've earned the right to treat others like doormats. Give the guy a break!


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

Fricasseekid said:


> Hey man! Whenever your in the Guiness Book of World Records for being the best amp repair man that ever lived you've earned the right to treat others like doormats. Give the guy a break!


No kidding. He's figured out that most amps are gravy and can earn a person a lot of money. 

 Amp Repair ≠ Rocket Science


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

envisionelec said:


> No kidding. He's figured out that most amps are gravy and can earn a person a lot of money.
> 
> Amp Repair ≠ Rocket Science



you sure about that? according to him fixing anything other than a 4x50 rms amp takes mad genius level skillz.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

JAX said:


> you sure about that? according to him fixing anything other than a 4x50 rms amp takes mad genius level skillz.


Word on the street is there's only about 10 people in the whole world that can do it.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Fricasseekid said:


> Word on the street is there's only about 10 people in the whole world that can do it.


But the problem is you MUST have access to top secret company insider schematics..which narrows it down to 2....DB-R and Zed audio...lol


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

JAX said:


> But the problem is you MUST have access to top secret company insider schematics..which narrows it down to 2....DB-R and Zed audio...lol


I have had schematics for one brand of amplifier - EVER. Rockford Fosgate. 

You don't need a schematic to properly repair most amplifiers. It is helpful to know how they are designed and/or have experience.

Yeah. So there.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

JAX said:


> But the problem is you MUST have access to top secret company insider schematics..which narrows it down to 2....DB-R and Zed audio...lol


Well of course! That's one for the new amps and one for the vintage amps. 

If db-r decided to work on old amps he'd hav the market monopolized in a week!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

envisionelec said:


> I have had schematics for one brand of amplifier - EVER. Rockford Fosgate.
> 
> You don't need a schematic to properly repair most amplifiers. It is helpful to know how they are designed and/or have experience.
> 
> Yeah. So there.


of course. I was being sarcastic.

More important than schematics is the ability to solder properly . If I ever took the time to do so I might try to fix one myself


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

JAX said:


> of course. I was being sarcastic.
> 
> More important than schematics is the ability to solder properly . If I ever took the time to do so I might try to fix one myself


I'm sort of dry. I understood your sarcasm and laffed. But only a little (also sarcasm). Attention to detail is key. Knowing what you're doing is key. Some people can't handle themselves.

I'll reveal a little about my company right now. I just gained an investing partner that has 25 years in the business of production engineering and audio repair. Nice combo, IMO. We'll be soon opening a car amplifier repair center in the near future. 

Take a look at this company's site. We'll be doing it like this - but for car audio. PLC Center MRO Inventory and Industrial Repair Service - PLCCenter.com

Radwell Official Tour - YouTube

Now, that is state of the art. And that's the way I'm going to do it.


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

Well, I have got a tub full of broken mtx amps. But they aren't new, and they aren't old zed either....wtf am I going to do?
*edit*

Wait...looks like someone just above me saw a need in the market, and decded to fill it. 

Wonder which of the two choices here I'm going to send that tub off to?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

envisionelec said:


> I'm sort of dry. I understood your sarcasm and laffed. But only a little (also sarcasm). Attention to detail is key. Knowing what you're doing is key. Some people can't handle themselves.
> 
> I'll reveal a little about my company right now. I just gained an investing partner that has 25 years in the business of production engineering and audio repair. Nice combo, IMO. We'll be soon opening a car amplifier repair center in the near future.
> 
> ...



Aaron,
You never stop impressing me.
Let us know when you're ready to open up shop for business!

BTW, in the Radwell video, I don't think I heard Tyler Brooks say, "But don't be pushy, we don't respond to pushy, you have been warned!".

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

I am truly amazed. I have never seen a company come on a public forum and say we are horrible and dont care. They basically told anyone that can read, screw you. In a hurt economy when most companies are doing everything to gain loyal clients, this company proudly runs off potential clients. WOW!


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## 99BonneSLE (Feb 7, 2011)

Fricasseekid said:


> Hey man! Whenever your in the Guiness Book of World Records for being the best amp repair man that ever lived you've earned the right to treat others like doormats. Give the guy a break!


I know I'm a nobody on this forum, but I know how to treat people. All I want to say is that just because he's "the worlds best amp repair man to ever live" doesn't give him the right to treat others like doormats. No person has that right. We're all people. None of us are better. It's that simple. Just like "celebrities". I see these people worshiping the ground these people step on. Why? They're just people. I see them as normal people that are no better than me. Simple. Just because he can do something that a handful of people can doesn't make him the best. When he takes a ****, it still smells. Simple. In my opinion, no person has the right or the authority to treat others like ****. Same thing with police and "authority" figures. But that's just my point of view. I may be young, but I'm pretty wise for someone my age. Also, I understand things take time to repair. I repair computers, phones, iPods, etc. I understand that. The thing that I didn't like was the threat. Well, both of them. I understand that pushiness is irritating. I get pushy people all of the time asking how long it takes and why it takes so long and so on. But I never snap on them. And I snap very easily. I'm Italian and have the temper and attitude of one. But if that's how you do business and it works for you, so be it. I just won't treat you like a God *I'm sure you aren't asking that of anyone*. You're just another average Joe trying to earn a living. I'll leave it at that


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

99BonneSLE said:


> I know I'm a nobody on this forum, but I know how to treat people. All I want to say is that just because he's "the worlds best amp repair man to ever live" doesn't give him the right to treat others like doormats. No person has that right. We're all people. None of us are better. It's that simple. Just like "celebrities". I see these people worshiping the ground these people step on. Why? They're just people. I see them as normal people that are no better than me. Simple. Just because he can do something that a handful of people can doesn't make him the best. When he takes a ****, it still smells. Simple. In my opinion, no person has the right or the authority to treat others like ****. Same thing with police and "authority" figures. But that's just my point of view. I may be young, but I'm pretty wise for someone my age. Also, I understand things take time to repair. I repair computers, phones, iPods, etc. I understand that. The thing that I didn't like was the threat. Well, both of them. I understand that pushiness is irritating. I get pushy people all of the time asking how long it takes and why it takes so long and so on. But I never snap on them. And I snap very easily. I'm Italian and have the temper and attitude of one. But if that's how you do business and it works for you, so be it. I just won't treat you like a God *I'm sure you aren't asking that of anyone*. You're just another average Joe trying to earn a living. I'll leave it at that


Subtle sarcasm doesn't do well on the Internet.


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## 99BonneSLE (Feb 7, 2011)

Fricasseekid said:


> Subtle sarcasm doesn't do well on the Internet.


I wasn't asking for approval. There was no "subtle sarcasm". I spoke my mind and my opinion. Just like everyone else did. Just because I have less than a certain amount of posts I can't voice my opinions?


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

99BonneSLE said:


> I wasn't asking for approval. There was no "subtle sarcasm". I spoke my mind and my opinion. Just like everyone else did. Just because I have less than a certain amount of posts I can't voice my opinions?


Haha! You still don't get it. My comment to which you were responding was sarcasm. And I was making a joke about how many people on the Internet are too dense to pick up on subtle humor.

Sorry guy!


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## 99BonneSLE (Feb 7, 2011)

Fricasseekid said:


> Haha! You still don't get it. My comment to which you were responding was sarcasm. And I was making a joke about how many people on the Internet are too dense to pick up on subtle humor.
> 
> Sorry guy!


HA! Now I see. I honestly forgot what I had originally quoted when I responded the first time. That's my bad. I had a lot of things going on at once. My apologies. Didn't mean to come off as a d!ck. That was not sarcasm just for the record *what I just said I'm referring to*. Lol.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

99BonneSLE said:


> HA! Now I see. I honestly forgot what I had originally quoted when I responded the first time. That's my bad. I had a lot of things going on at once. My apologies. Didn't mean to come off as a d!ck. That was not sarcasm just for the record *what I just said I'm referring to*. Lol.


I bet you do living on Staten Island with everything that's going right now in your backyard.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## 99BonneSLE (Feb 7, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I bet you do living on Staten Island with everything that's going right now in your backyard.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


This place sucks. lol. Nobody knows a thing about GOOD audio here. I took my car to a place to see if he could build me a box since I'm not good whatsoever. He asked what kind of subs, I said Sundown Audio. He gave me a blank look. I showed him the site and he goes "You're not paying $250 for these are you?", I spent $195. He told me he had a few kickers he could sell me that would be better. I laughed and walked out. Just saying lol


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Aaron,
> You never stop impressing me.
> Let us know when you're ready to open up shop for business!
> 
> ...


My first contact with them was as a customer, then as a very happy customer as I sold them $30K (new) of gigantic servo amplifiers. They were fast, paid for shipping - even issued a call tag for the weight of the products. I later referred them to a friend who sold them $50k worth of equipment. Now, the stuff we sold them was used so we each got a tiny fraction of the new value - but they treated us like premier business associates. All transactions were done via online tickets, much the way that db-R is (was?) doing it. 

These Radwell guys aren't fixing car amps. This stuff is actually amazingly complex and extremely expensive. And they're not being jerks about it. 

Bret, I'd love to take the country's supply of broken car amplifiers. I'd love to do OEM work. I know we could make it happen. I can hardly believe I'm going back to my technician roots and into car amplifier repair. It's not the path I expected to take, but I see it as a daily income stream that my business needs to keep the lights on. 

I have a friend that leases out 1/2 of his Morton building for PCB manufacturing and assembly (gee...that could be useful); the other half is mostly empty. I'll have to get in touch with him to see if he'll sublet a portion. The Dayton job market is hurting and there are significant tax benefits to being an employer here. Commercial office space is plentiful and cheap. I mean $6-8/sq ft per year cheap with utilities included! I'm naturally a thrifty person, but I will buy the tools to get the job done _efficiently._ 

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I just need to convince 1moreamp (Cecil) to move from sunny California to uh...Dayton, Ohio so I can have an instantly perfect tech crew.


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

envisionelec said:


> My first contact with them was as a customer, then as a very happy customer as I sold them $30K (new) of gigantic servo amplifiers. They were fast, paid for shipping - even issued a call tag for the weight of the products. I later referred them to a friend who sold them $50k worth of equipment. Now, the stuff we sold them was used so we each got a tiny fraction of the new value - but they treated us like premier business associates. All transactions were done via online tickets, much the way that db-R is (was?) doing it.
> 
> These Radwell guys aren't fixing car amps. This stuff is actually amazingly complex and extremely expensive. And they're not being jerks about it.
> 
> ...


Less talk more action, make it happen homie!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

envisionelec said:


> Thanks for your vote of confidence. I just need to convince 1moreamp (Cecil) to move from sunny California to uh...Dayton, Ohio so I can have an instantly perfect tech crew.


cecil is a great guy and a first class tech. I havnt used him in years but if you could get him on board that would be awesome for everyone.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Seems like within one thread we are getting to witness the demise of one company an the birth if a new one!


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

JAX said:


> cecil is a great guy and a first class tech. I havnt used him in years but if you could get him on board that would be awesome for everyone.


Yes, he and I have shared many great conversations. He is one of the first techs I had met that really understood the fundamentals of car amplifier design - or just amp design in general.

I highly doubt I'd be so lucky to have him move here. The best I could do is probably refer him, but I suspect he's already busier than he wants to be.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

Fricasseekid said:


> Seems like within one thread we are getting to witness the demise of one company an the birth if a new one!



I would have to repair 8-12 amplifiers per day to be profitable with just two employees and myself and a decent building. That's a lot of work and will require a good bit of planning. I suspect it will be early 2012 before I'd be taking on that level of work. 

Basically if I'm going to do it at all - it's going to be done correctly.


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

envisionelec said:


> I would have to repair 8-12 amplifiers per day to be profitable with just two employees and myself and a decent building. That's a lot of work and will require a good bit of planning. I suspect it will be early 2012 before I'd be taking on that level of work.
> 
> Basically if I'm going to do it at all - it's going to be done correctly.


Talk is cheap, make it happen dude!


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

envisionelec said:


> I would have to repair 8-12 amplifiers per day to be profitable with just two employees and myself and a decent building. That's a lot of work and will require a good bit of planning. I suspect it will be early 2012 before I'd be taking on that level of work.
> 
> Basically if I'm going to do it at all - it's going to be done correctly.


Maybe you could hire this db-r cat when he goes belly up. Just don't let any customers talk to him.


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

envisionelec said:


> Basically if I'm going to do it at all - it's going to be done correctly.


Since this is a customer-service oriented thread, I suggest that you seriously reconsider your new business venture. I emailed you months ago about your 12v mod for the Behringer units, and never got a response. If that is any indication of the type of customer service you will provide as an amp repair service, I most certainly will not be doing business with you. 


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Hertz5400LincolnLS said:


> Since this is a customer-service oriented thread, I suggest that you seriously reconsider your new business venture. I emailed you months ago about your 12v mod for the Behringer units, and never got a response. If that is any indication of the type of customer service you will provide as an amp repair service, I most certainly will not be doing business with you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


Don't think he's in the biz yet homie.


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## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

Hertz5400LincolnLS said:


> Since this is a customer-service oriented thread, I suggest that you seriously reconsider your new business venture. I emailed you months ago about your 12v mod for the Behringer units, and never got a response. If that is any indication of the type of customer service you will provide as an amp repair service, I most certainly will not be doing business with you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


95% chance his response will be he never received the email...


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

envisionelec said:


> Yes, he and I have shared many great conversations. He is one of the first techs I had met that really understood the fundamentals of car amplifier design - or just amp design in general.
> 
> I highly doubt I'd be so lucky to have him move here. The best I could do is probably refer him, but I suspect he's already busier than he wants to be.


Aaron,
Tell us more about this Cecil guy out on the left coast.

BTW, are you going to be able to work on the old PPI stuff (Arts) specifically?

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> Seems like within one thread we are getting to witness the demise of one company an the birth if a new one!


NOT. So funny, dB-r is not going nowhere. I can't believe you honestly think that.... Your basing this conclusion on what? An Internet message board post that you didn't like? Dude, really....

And if the other guy starts up an amp repair shop that is awesome. I'll even send him some referrals. We don't just refer to Zed Audio, we also refer to Ampmedics, and another shop in Louisiana, and the new Stetsom Repair guy. We probably turn away half the business we get. Would be glad to refer some work to the new guy, as long as his work is good, if I start hearing complaints from customers I will have to stop the referrals. We already had to do that with 2 other shops in the past because they just weren't doing the customers right, bad customer service, AND bad work = FAIL.

To the guy starting the new repair shop, there is ALOT of work that we do not have a shop to refer away to, we have to refer the customers to the OEM, who usually charges way too much, or is out of business or has horrible service, and does crappy repair work. If you want it, you got it, we won't take it, none of the other shops we refer to will take it, so you can have it all, just hit me up. [email protected]


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

db-r said:


> NOT. So funny, dB-r is not going nowhere. I can't believe you honestly think that.... Your basing this conclusion on what? An Internet message board post that you didn't like? Dude, really....
> 
> And if the other guy starts up an amp repair shop that is awesome. I'll even send him some referrals. We don't just refer to Zed Audio, we also refer to Ampmedics, and another shop in Louisiana, and the new Stetsom Repair guy. We probably turn away half the business we get. Would be glad to refer some work to the new guy, as long as his work is good, if I start hearing complaints from customers I will have to stop the referrals. We already had to do that with 2 other shops in the past because they just weren't doing the customers right, bad customer service, AND bad work = FAIL.
> 
> To the guy starting the new repair shop, there is ALOT of work that we do not have a shop to refer away to, we have to refer the customers to the OEM, who usually charges way too much, or is out of business or has horrible service, and does crappy repair work. If you want it, you got it, we won't take it, none of the other shops we refer to will take it, so you can have it all, just hit me up. [email protected]


No I don't really believe that you goof ball. But I love how easy it was to get a rise out of you. LMAO! 

I think I just trolled the troll.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> bad customer service, AND bad work = FAIL.


Does that make you 1/2 fail?

Your words.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

If:
bad costumer service + bad work = Fail

And:
good costumer service + good quality work = Success!

Then: 
poor customer service + good work = ? just getting by ?


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> No I don't really believe that you goof ball. But I love how easy it was to get a rise out of you. LMAO!
> 
> I think I just trolled the troll.


After all you seen here you call that a rise? ppfffttt please. 

PPI-collector guy:
I don't know if there is a point at which it's half-fail, in my demented mind it's either Win or Fail, black or white, no gray area.... But it's an opinion, and everyone's got one.....


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> After all you seen here you call that a rise? ppfffttt please.
> 
> PPI-collector guy:
> I don't know if there is a point at which it's half-fail, in my demented mind it's either Win or Fail, black or white, no gray area.... But it's an opinion, and everyone's got one.....


True.
And I can respect that.

Since you are still posting on here, please consider answering two questions for me (us).

Ccan you honestly still rebuke the massive backlash you've received on this thread or have you come to realize that maybe you should do business (CS) differently?

If so, which I truly hope is true, then will you detail what you think you can do to improve cs and your plans on how to implement them?

Maybe something positive other than clarity of where you stand on the matter can still come out of all of this.

Thank you in advance.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Well, it's like I said before, we do a good job, and for 99% of the customers (or more) we do it in a timely manner without being rude. I apologized for being mean to that one guy already, a few pages back.. Sometimes this business is a nightmare.... 

I would have to say to anyone thinking about getting into this field think twice... I have seen at least 4 new shops pop up in the last 2 years and all 4 have failed within only a couple months of opening. Why? Because while it's not hard to repair amplifiers, and do it right, customers are extremely demanding, and the equipment you are repairing is far less than stellar in some cases, not worth it's weight in scrap iron. But it's hard to tell the customer that because they get offended (though I do it anyway, that's just me). Even if you repair it right, you have customers that will abuse the stuff, and/or you will run into hidden problems in the design and build of the products that will keep on biting you in the ass until your flat broke from doing warranty repairs.... Amp repair is for the hobby guy really, IMO, because knowing all the things that fail in these amplifiers and why, and how to prevent it, has nothing to do with tech skills, it's all about experience. The new guys get into this business and quickly get bit a few times and they drop out... I hung in there. 

Oh, and yeah, I'll try to be nicer, but I can only do so much. Would probably be best if we are going to keep dealing with the general public in any way to hire someone to talk to the customers so my bitter ass doesn't have too.

About the backlash? What backlash? A couple people on an Internet board didn't like what I said. Don't make it out to be like it's the "end of the line...." for dB-r Electronics because of this post, because you and I both know, it's not. It is, what it is. Like I said, I'll try to be nicer.


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## benchambers80 (Sep 10, 2011)

db-r wont get be getting any of my business.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

End of the line... No... huge hole in the road... Yes. Somebody you know decently well went down a road similar to this although work and customer service were in question that time.... Not sure if things have picked back up for them yet or not.


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## imdabest (Mar 26, 2011)

I hope db-r car or cars break down he takes them to a mechanic and the mechanic takes a month doesn't touch them. And bad mouths him when he asks for a statue update.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

imdabest said:


> I hope db-r car or cars break down he takes them to a mechanic and the mechanic takes a month doesn't touch them. And bad mouths him when he asks for a statue update.


That's a very nice thought from you there, but I happen to be my own mechanic also, I rebuild engines, transmissions, chassis, electrical, tuning, troubleshooting, you name it. I own an HP Tuners MPVI Pro Interface for those of you who know what that is... I am sure someone here does, There is a Chassis Dyno 20 mins from here. I think only thing I don't have is a tire machine, I pay Amigo's Tire Service to mount and balance my tires, they do a fantastic job. 

I am also licensed MVAC technician. Years ago, I got tired of being screwed over by A/C service techs fixing the A/C in my vehicles so I went and got certified and bought all the equipment, so now not only can I do my own vehicle's legally I can do others for a profit as well, and not gouge them like the shops did me... $800 to do an AC rebuild in a car, REALLY???? It costs like $200 in parts most of the time to do everything necessary, May take 2 hours labor time, takes 1 day to study for the test if you got any brains at all can pass it and the equipment if you buy it used is less than $1000 for everything and you can open your own AC shop... LOL heck if you want to do it illegaly, don't buy an evac machine, that will save you $900 in tools costs.. Stupid EPA garbage anyway.

I DO pay for cell phone service, luckily if it sucks too bad, I just go to another one, they are in constant competition with each other and just LOVE to switch you over....

If you guys just really really really don't want to send your amp to a shop to be repaired, learned to do it yourself, $200 in equipment off ebay and this nice tutorial on amp repair from my friend Perry Babin, who I have CONTRIBUTED info and samples to HELP with the tutorial is all you need:

Learn To Repair Car Audio Power Amplifiers

Now don't confuse my shop with Perry's, we are not affiliated officially, he is VERY nice and I am sure frowns on my CS practices (matter of fact I know he does), but he is THE MAN, when it comes to amp repair, and an awesome guy to deal with, he will even help you via email.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

I've heard good things about Perry. Very recently as a matter of fact. It's very comforting to know one of the best is in my backyard.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> Well, it's like I said before, we do a good job, and for 99% of the customers (or more) we do it in a timely manner without being rude. I apologized for being mean to that one guy already, a few pages back.. Sometimes this business is a nightmare....
> 
> I would have to say to anyone thinking about getting into this field think twice... I have seen at least 4 new shops pop up in the last 2 years and all 4 have failed within only a couple months of opening. Why? Because while it's not hard to repair amplifiers, and do it right, customers are extremely demanding, and the equipment you are repairing is far less than stellar in some cases, not worth it's weight in scrap iron. But it's hard to tell the customer that because they get offended (though I do it anyway, that's just me). Even if you repair it right, you have customers that will abuse the stuff, and/or you will run into hidden problems in the design and build of the products that will keep on biting you in the ass until your flat broke from doing warranty repairs.... Amp repair is for the hobby guy really, IMO, because knowing all the things that fail in these amplifiers and why, and how to prevent it, has nothing to do with tech skills, it's all about experience. The new guys get into this business and quickly get bit a few times and they drop out... I hung in there.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to think about it.
Hiring someone to cover cs is very wise on your part and I ask that you follow through for your sake, your businesse's sake, and your customer's sake.

As for the backlash statement, what I meant was when you have three pages of DIYMA members and two moderators chastizing you, that's a backlash, and it's worthy of your consideration.

Lastly, I wish you well in your endeavors to find someone to cover your cs needs.
May I suggest retired Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders?
Now that's a phone call I would be happy to get. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

Hertz5400LincolnLS said:


> Since this is a customer-service oriented thread, I suggest that you seriously reconsider your new business venture. I emailed you months ago about your 12v mod for the Behringer units, and never got a response. If that is any indication of the type of customer service you will provide as an amp repair service, I most certainly will not be doing business with you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


I respond to all my emails. Did you check your junk/SPAM filter?

If you didn't get a response, why didn't you call me? How about a PM? I need your name or email address to give you my response email. Thank you!


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

oldskewl said:


> 95% chance his response will be he never received the email...


I've never had a problem receiving emails. What I don't understand is if this person wanted to get in touch with me - why not call or send a second email? I answer the phone - even though I am at work (which is a regular, full time day job). 

I looked back through all my emails on the DSPower - and all were answered within hours.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

db-r said:


> NOT. So funny, dB-r is not going nowhere. I can't believe you honestly think that.... Your basing this conclusion on what? An Internet message board post that you didn't like? Dude, really....
> 
> And if the other guy starts up an amp repair shop that is awesome. I'll even send him some referrals. We don't just refer to Zed Audio, we also refer to Ampmedics, and another shop in Louisiana, and the new Stetsom Repair guy. We probably turn away half the business we get. Would be glad to refer some work to the new guy, as long as his work is good, if I start hearing complaints from customers I will have to stop the referrals. We already had to do that with 2 other shops in the past because they just weren't doing the customers right, bad customer service, AND bad work = FAIL.
> 
> To the guy starting the new repair shop, there is ALOT of work that we do not have a shop to refer away to, we have to refer the customers to the OEM, who usually charges way too much, or is out of business or has horrible service, and does crappy repair work. If you want it, you got it, we won't take it, none of the other shops we refer to will take it, so you can have it all, just hit me up. [email protected]


I think it's based on what was said "We are slowly closing off this business to the general public and only dealing with companies that make amplifiers..."

In due time...I need to make sure this is something that will really work. 

You're exactly right. I remember some customers being just completely unreasonable. Since then, I have developed a circuit that monitors peak current going into the amp and logs it, along with a time stamp - readable by USB, exported into Excel. So, if a customer complains that they didn't abuse it - well, there is the proof.

Maybe I'll just sell those...


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Aaron,
> Tell us more about this Cecil guy out on the left coast.
> 
> BTW, are you going to be able to work on the old PPI stuff (Arts) specifically?
> ...


Cecil and ErinH (formerly of PG) started the Phoenix Phorum 7-8 years ago. Around 2004, I had an M100 that needed a new chassis and those gold plated screws. I called PG and they referred me to the Phoenix Phorum which is where I met 1moreamp - Cecil (don't remember his last name).

He has some 35 years experience with car amp repair and I believe he works in a shop that repairs all types of audio gear. We chatted about PPI and Xtant and I bought a few amps from him. He was the first person I could talk to, one on one, about the technical details of car amplifier design. It was quite cool. He must have become busy or ill or something because I didn't see any activity from him for a long time then the Phorum disappeared when Rodin Audio took over. Since then, I got more active here and didn't pay much attention to the Phorum while I was busy growing my engineering/design business.

What a lot of people don't understand is that my business is a moonlighting deal. I work a _lot_ to make it happen, but I am not yet ready to go into great debt just to fulfill a dream. I've seen some pretty disastrous results from inexperienced dream followers. However, if I wait too long - I'll be ready to retire. :laugh:


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

balls


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## benchambers80 (Sep 10, 2011)

db-r said:


> That's a very nice thought from you there, but I happen to be my own mechanic also, I rebuild engines, transmissions, chassis, electrical, tuning, troubleshooting, you name it. I own an HP Tuners MPVI Pro Interface for those of you who know what that is... I am sure someone here does, There is a Chassis Dyno 20 mins from here. I think only thing I don't have is a tire machine, I pay Amigo's Tire Service to mount and balance my tires, they do a fantastic job.
> 
> I am also licensed MVAC technician. Years ago, I got tired of being screwed over by A/C service techs fixing the A/C in my vehicles so I went and got certified and bought all the equipment, so now not only can I do my own vehicle's legally I can do others for a profit as well, and not gouge them like the shops did me... $800 to do an AC rebuild in a car, REALLY???? It costs like $200 in parts most of the time to do everything necessary, May take 2 hours labor time, takes 1 day to study for the test if you got any brains at all can pass it and the equipment if you buy it used is less than $1000 for everything and you can open your own AC shop... LOL heck if you want to do it illegaly, don't buy an evac machine, that will save you $900 in tools costs.. Stupid EPA garbage anyway.
> 
> ...


Cool story bro... I can do my own amp repairs too, but I get paid more to sit in an office.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

envisionelec said:


> Cecil and ErinH (formerly of PG) started the Phoenix Phorum 7-8 years ago. Around 2004, I had an M100 that needed a new chassis and those gold plated screws. I called PG and they referred me to the Phoenix Phorum which is where I met 1moreamp - Cecil (don't remember his last name).
> 
> He has some 35 years experience with car amp repair and I believe he works in a shop that repairs all types of audio gear. We chatted about PPI and Xtant and I bought a few amps from him. He was the first person I could talk to, one on one, about the technical details of car amplifier design. It was quite cool. He must have become busy or ill or something because I didn't see any activity from him for a long time then the Phorum disappeared when Rodin Audio took over. Since then, I got more active here and didn't pay much attention to the Phorum while I was busy growing my engineering/design business.
> 
> What a lot of people don't understand is that my business is a moonlighting deal. I work a _lot_ to make it happen, but I am not yet ready to go into great debt just to fulfill a dream. I've seen some pretty disastrous results from inexperienced dream followers. However, if I wait too long - I'll be ready to retire. :laugh:


Cecil did run into some health problem and he slowed down and quit doing repairs. at least that is what made me have to find a new person and stop buying all the old PG gear. 

I havnt talked to him in quite a while but I do have his email address . He is pretty much a icon on the PG forums. I dont visit the new forum as much but most of the same people are there from the original.

It would be cool to get you and Cecil and my #1 tech Dave in vegas together to make something killer.

If you want Daves email let me know. You would get a kick out of him.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

benchambers80 said:


> Cool story bro... I can do my own amp repairs too, but I get paid more to sit in an office.



You related to Jerry Chambers from Gatesville?

Your name sure sounds familiar, did you buy an amp from us or have one repaired here in the past?


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Fricasseekid said:


> I've heard good things about Perry. Very recently as a matter of fact. It's very comforting to know one of the best is in my backyard.


Perry is the man, I contact him when ever I have problems diagnosting amps. He always replies the same day or the next day and guides you step by step. Very patient as long as you give him accurate information needed. 

He does a few repairs when ever he has some free time, otherwise he will try to help as much as possible. I highly recommend him.


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## RMAT (Feb 13, 2007)

envisionelec said:


> I respond to all my emails. Did you check your junk/SPAM filter?
> 
> If you didn't get a response, why didn't you call me? How about a PM? I need your name or email address to give you my response email. Thank you!


He didn't want to come off too "pushy" . Apparently some people don't like that. /sarcasmoff


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## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

My response as this thread was pointed out to me...

1) Chris is not the nicest guy in the world
2) Some people don't like Chris
3) Chris can get irritated and tell off a customer

but...

4) Out of the shops I've dealt with dB-R is the only shop that is *consistently* reliable.

One of the other shops I tried to deal with stole the amps I sent to them and disappeared. I've sent assorted amps to other shops that were done poorly or incorrectly or never done at all. I tried a few local guys and they had no idea what they were doing.

If there are tons of other shops out there that can do what dB-R does I haven't seen or heard of them... at least not at a level of volume acceptable to be an official company repair center / refurbished sale center. There are many qualified individuals out there but NOT many that can run an actual BUSINESS doing it.

If I heard even a fraction of the customers being unhappy with dB-R repair quality or customer service I'd be concerned about it -- as Sundown is very concerned with customer service. Honestly, we simply don't receive complaints about Chris at a rate that would be concerning to anybody in our position.

In closing -- I don't particularly like the direction of this thread but year after year of extremely high quality work for us and our customers is a bit more important than a forum discussion thread.

We have to look at things on a percentage basis... we get complaints about pretty well every dealer, distributor, etc at some point... if it stays at a small rate and the company is otherwise doing their job we aren't going to change our relationship with them. If Chris really talked to EVERY customer like a total douche-bag then that would be different... but that just doesn't happen. Customer service is HARD... many days I have to step back from the keyboard and take a deep breathe to even read my e-mails without flipping out... not everyone can take that step back.


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## UNFORGIVEN (Sep 25, 2010)

Jacob makes lots of good points people. Ive personally have done business with Dbr years ago and never had an issues. He obviously does sufficient work seeing that he's still in business today. patience is key


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

UNFORGIVEN said:


> Jacob makes lots of good points people. Ive personally have done business with Dbr years ago and never had an issues. He obviously does sufficient work seeing that he's still in business today. patience is key


Good advice to live by in all aspects of life.

Now Unforgiven, you and I have always seen things the same way and have taken on others together on DIYMA that have stepped out of line, but I ask you to consider the following.

The OP did that for 6-8 weeks, receiving one excuse after another, after being promised a two week turn-around.
Then he was warned by the shop owner if he persisted in being pushy,

Surely, you must see the problem with that.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I don't think anyone would even care if owner wasn't so arrogant. That just made it worse. People could forgive and forget the long wait but the attitude is what sucked here. 

Had it not been for that, most could overlook this as isolated.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

JAX said:


> I don't think anyone would even care if owner wasn't so arrogant. That just made it worse. People could forgive and forget the long wait but the attitude is what sucked here.
> 
> Had it not been for that, most could overlook this as isolated.


You're right; I lost focus of that fact.
Thank Jax.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> You're right; I lost focus of that fact.
> Thank Jax.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Lol. I got caught up in it myself. 

Mob mentality for a moment. 

If they really do that much work then he duds to get a mouthpiece cause he is bad at it. 

For me, I have an expert repairman who is cheaper so I won't need db- r either way. 


Just the "in your face " attitude gets under my skin every time.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey Jax, or anyone else in here? 
Where in LA is Perry Babin located? Any contact info?


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

db-r said:


> I would have to say to anyone thinking about getting into this field think twice... I have seen at least 4 new shops pop up in the last 2 years and all 4 have failed within only a couple months of opening. Why? Because while it's not hard to repair amplifiers, and do it right, customers are extremely demanding, and the equipment you are repairing is far less than stellar in some cases, not worth it's weight in scrap iron. But it's hard to tell the customer that because they get offended (though I do it anyway, that's just me). Even if you repair it right, you have customers that will abuse the stuff, and/or you will run into hidden problems in the design and build of the products that will keep on biting you in the ass until your flat broke from doing warranty repairs.... Amp repair is for the hobby guy really, IMO, because knowing all the things that fail in these amplifiers and why, and how to prevent it, has nothing to do with tech skills, it's all about experience. The new guys get into this business and quickly get bit a few times and they drop out... I hung in there.


You perfectly exemplified why I stopped building and working on computers for people. As soon as they let their kids loose on the damn things every toolbar and spyware you can think of is on there faster than you can say "WTF?" And it's automatically my fault since I built or serviced it. The profit wasn't worth the headache, and there were better things to do in my spare time.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

kvndoom said:


> You perfectly exemplified why I stopped building and working on computers for people. As soon as they let their kids loose on the damn things every toolbar and spyware you can think of is on there faster than you can say "WTF?" And it's automatically my fault since I built or serviced it. The profit wasn't worth the headache, and there were better things to do in my spare time.


It'd be cool if my amplifier could surf porn!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Fricasseekid said:


> Hey Jax, or anyone else in here?
> Where in LA is Perry Babin located? Any contact info?



If you don't have it by then I will get you his email in about 1 hr after work . You need something fixed ?


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Maybe... I shorted my amp out and it still sounds fine but I think it's lacking output.


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## duro78 (Dec 24, 2011)

Chris fixed one of my amps before and because I asked him about one of the charges, not rude just asked him to go over what was done. He responded with if I don't pay by this date he's selling my amp I responded to wtf do u think you are the Messiah of amp repair he said yes were the best and don't question me. At this point I felt it was time to call him after cursing each other out for a couple Minutes it actually turned into a good long conversation and I ended up sending him a tip lol. If you want your amp fixed properly sent it to Chris if your expecting customer service skills look else where

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

duro78 said:


> Chris fixed one of my amps before and because I asked him about one of the charges, not rude just asked him to go over what was done. He responded with if I don't pay by this date he's selling my amp I responded to wtf do u think you are the Messiah of amp repair he said yes were the best and don't question me. At this point I felt it was time to call him after cursing each other out for a couple Minutes it actually turned into a good long conversation and I ended up sending him a tip lol. If you want your amp fixed properly sent it to Chris if your expecting customer service skills look else where
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Wow - so what happens if people want it fixed properly AND get good customer service? Doesn't exist?


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

envisionelec said:


> Wow - so what happens if people want it fixed properly AND get good customer service? Doesn't exist?


I am sure there may be a reputable repair center that does the work DB-r does and has great customer service. Of course, considering the volume DB-r does with the quality they provide, I expect it's a moot point. Who cares? Either use Db-r or don't. 

I am willing to give a shot to a different repair shop. But it would be with the most inexpensive amp I own as I would hate to lose any of the others I have. I myself care more about the quality of the repair than if I get coddled. Would rather have the repair done right than have someone stroke me while screwing up my property.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

cubdenno said:


> I am sure there may be a reputable repair center that does the work DB-r does and has great customer service. Of course, considering the volume DB-r does with the quality they provide, I expect it's a moot point. Who cares? Either use Db-r or don't.
> 
> I am willing to give a shot to a different repair shop. But it would be with the most inexpensive amp I own as I would hate to lose any of the others I have. I myself care more about the quality of the repair than if I get coddled. Would rather have the repair done right than have someone stroke me while screwing up my property.


I don't think coddling is what customer service provides. Come Spring (maybe sooner if I can get a database programmer), we're opening up a full time shop with the best repair quality in the business. Chris will do his thing - and I'll do everything else. I think the reason Chris thinks everyone else sucks is because he's never seen my work. :laugh: It's not a game for the weak-minded or lazy, that's for sure.

Why would you lose your good amps to someone else? I'm just finished a PPI 2350DM, two Orion 2350gx and a PPI A1200.1. Soundstream, Zapco, Xtant, ESX, HiFonics and hundreds of other amp brands have slid across my bench. I don't do "ghetto" repairs, don't further damage any vias or traces or use bad parts. I source all of my parts from authorized distributors and my engineering background ensures that any part substitution is precisely suitable for the circuit.

I have been known to rebuild "unfixable" amplifiers where damage was caused by other shops that publicly claim to have expertise. These places have engineers that designed their amplifiers, but fail to understand basic soldering concepts. The proof is in my clientele that have received a great experience. I have had unhappy customers in the past and my response is simple - you get a refund. You also are blocked from getting anything repaired for 90 Days. You are permanently blocked if you overtly disrespect our technicians by phone or email. I won't tolerate it either way.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

duro78 said:


> Chris fixed one of my amps before and because I asked him about one of the charges, not rude just asked him to go over what was done. He responded with if I don't pay by this date he's selling my amp I responded to wtf do u think you are the Messiah of amp repair he said yes were the best and don't question me. At this point I felt it was time to call him after cursing each other out for a couple Minutes it actually turned into a good long conversation and I ended up sending him a tip lol. If you want your amp fixed properly sent it to Chris if your expecting customer service skills look else where
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


So he doesn't have to meet any kind of deadlines for his customers but YOU have to meet HIS deadlines. Interesting...


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

I know this is an old thread at this point, and i'm resurrecting it. I wanted to add that while I've sent one of my amps to DB-r for repair (a PPI A600.2 back when they still did them) and it came back fixed properly, i'm amazed at the wanton disregard for a businesses own reputation. 

If you google "DB-r amp repair", guess what is 2nd from the top. Pretty amazing for a "small forum" with little impact in the industry. 

It's a huge shame to see it since the workmanship was good, but the CS skills scare me so much that even as a previous customer, I don't think i'd feel comfortable sending anything I own there. With his "I'm always right" attitude, I wonder what I would have to go through if I did have something else fixed there and it came back with a problem...


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I have a super tech and he will talk to me any time I call and we can bs about amps all day...he likes to talk. he is fast but professional. 

he also does an expert job. anyone here that I have sent to him has had awesome experience as far as I know.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

db-r said:


> That's a very nice thought from you there, but I happen to be my own mechanic also, I rebuild engines, transmissions, chassis, electrical, tuning, troubleshooting, you name it. I own an HP Tuners MPVI Pro Interface for those of you who know what that is... I am sure someone here does, There is a Chassis Dyno 20 mins from here. I think only thing I don't have is a tire machine, I pay Amigo's Tire Service to mount and balance my tires, they do a fantastic job.
> 
> If you guys just really really really don't want to send your amp to a shop to be repaired, learned to do it yourself,


Bravo dude! Bravo! People like to ***** and moan too much. Want to fix your amp? Want it done fast? Want to do it for super cheap? Learn to do it your own ****ing self. You don't even need $200 worth of equipment to do general repairs. All I have is a $10 soldering iron and a $20 multimeter and I'm good to go. 

And I love how you threw that one back in that guys face lmao. I too fix my own cars. Why rely on someone else?


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Bravo dude! Bravo! People like to ***** and moan too much. Want to fix your amp? Want it done fast? Want to do it for super cheap? Learn to do it your own ****ing self. You don't even need $200 worth of equipment to do general repairs. All I have is a $10 soldering iron and a $20 multimeter and I'm good to go.
> 
> And I love how you threw that one back in that guys face lmao. I too fix my own cars. Why rely on someone else?


I think at some point I apologized and I still get reamed, but that's ok. An update on the impact of this thread:

Nothing really, for the last year or two we have almost entirely done nothing but repairs. Sales are slow, from what I hear they are slow everywhere, luckily we have a BADASS repair shop to fall back on, LOL.

I think a lot of the complaining about dB-r comes from the fact that we don't repair a lot of the older amps anymore that are used by a lot of members of DIY type message boards. Someone should start a DIY amp repair message board, let me know how that goes!

;-)

I don't know why they would get mad about that, seems it would open the "door" for someone ELSE to open up a "old amp repair shop". I wonder why noone does? Hmmmm.......

Cheers to a New Year 2013, none of the above things will matter anymore! We are headed for Socialism/Communism real fast and we are all getting Obamacare (well almost all :-( ). Terrible! Unless of course you like that sort of thing! Oh, and give me your guns while your getting in line for bread! Thankx!

Laterz

dB-r


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

How much do these techs charge? I might have to start up a little repair business of my own...


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

cajunner said:


> He won't work on old school stuff,


Not anymore, if I were a hobbyist it would be different, but I have to make $$$. Or I used to have to make $$$, now that Obamacare is coming and benefits for low income people are at an all time high, I must just join the party.




> he's twice as high as his competitors,


Not quite twice. Unless you are referring to ARC or CIA, go to Caraudio.com and read the horror stories about those shops, makes me look like a savior.



> he backslaps anyone who demands to know if he can't be honest about when an amp is going to be repaired,


Not always, sometimes the pressure does get to me and I get tired of being asked the same questions over and over. It's not as bad when things are slow.



> and he ruffles feathers on the internet to amuse himself when things are slow...


Not really, just here at DIYMA. I am pretty good at fighting back in case noone noticed. ;-) And I don't let stuff get me down, I just get angry sometimes. I've never destroyed someones amp for being a total pain in the ass, but I HAVE spent 12-24 hours on what originally was quoted to be a 1 hour repair job, just to prove to myself that I CAN fix it, and usually, yes, I do win. And I only charge the customer for 1 hour.



> hey, I've got a couple of amps here, hmm...


*(Removed from response due to not following DIYMA rules regarding vendors and advertising)*


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

I've fixed a few old school amps (for myself, friends, family and a few members here and on Phoenix phorum.

Pm me if you have any for repair or sale.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> I think at some point I apologized and I still get reamed, but that's ok. An update on the impact of this thread:
> 
> Nothing really, for the last year or two we have almost entirely done nothing but repairs. Sales are slow, from what I hear they are slow everywhere, luckily we have a BADASS repair shop to fall back on, LOL.
> 
> ...


Still doubling down. 
You really don't want to stir this up again even though it's clear that you're trying to with the two Obama comments.
As for your most recent post, you are not a paid vendor so your free commercial at the bottom has been removed.
If you wish to become a vendor here then please upgrade your account.
However, do it again and you'll be receiving a pm from me explaining why that was a mistake.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Still doubling down.
> You really don't want to stir this up again even though it's clear that you're trying to with the two Obama comments.
> As for your most recent post, you are not a paid vendor so your free commercial at the bottom has been removed.
> If you wish to become a vendor here then please upgrade your account.
> ...



Actually I am a paid vendor, I just don't bother, especially since most of the stuff people use here we don't service, makes it kind of irrelevant.

Not scared bro, do what you need to do, doesn't make two ****s to me.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

I like your fantastic Moderator here also removed the part about us (dB-r) referring people to the right shop for free, we get nothing from Zed or Ampmedics for referrals, just do it to help the customers. Moderator your a douchebag.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

cajunner said:


> If anything, it confirms that you at least have the requisite skill for what you're being compensated, even if you lack the rudimentary polish for public interaction.


Well said.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

db-r said:


> I like your fantastic Moderator here also removed the part about us (dB-r) referring people to the right shop for free, we get nothing from Zed or Ampmedics for referrals, just do it to help the customers. *Moderator your a douchebag*.



Funny and misspelled. 
Pay your vendor fee and advertise all you want.
But don't lie to me and everyone else that you're a paid vendor when your status is clearly not.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

The amount of impact on DB-r's business can't be measured unfortunately, because the people that aren't sending him business likely won't even bother to post it. 

Maybe doing the right thing should be measured in a loss of business, and maybe it's not in this case due to large repair contracts, but that doesn't make it right. 

I personally don't need to be coddled, but I do need to see that someone at least cares enough about their own rep to take care of an unhappy customer.


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## duro78 (Dec 24, 2011)

What does a small business do when they just don't have the personality for customer care? They usually cant afford to hire someone more suitable for the position especially if the person doesnt have the skill set to increase overall production. Im not defending bad behavior in any way but moreso trying to understand it. A lot of us just aren't geared towards dealing with the daily qualms of customer care. When owning a small business the owner is often times the same guy that mops the floor at night as the guy who signs the checks. We all encounter it everyday, so what does an owner do if its a skill they just don't passes?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Following the path of growing a business they certainly shouldn't fall back on, "well I don't have to".

In my case I want more business and to give someone with skill a job. And to grow the company. But maybe I will see it differently when I make a certain amount of money and can turn away customers. But that is doubtful.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Yep, I mop and vacuum, clean, make the coffee, take out trash, you name it, I do it myself. 

I think the point that is missing here in this message board thread on a message board that we don't even really use or service many of it's users equipment, is the fact that 99.99% of our actual customers are extremely happy, and that's what really matters. 

What we say or do on this message board does not have impact, no it doesn't, not substantial impact. Matter of fact if anyone really dares to see if I really am "scared" or not about this message board post, I will link it on my website, that's how "not scared" I really am. Why? Because all that the 11 pages or more of this thread prove is that we had one unhappy customer out of thousands, and lots of people jumped in to defend our work, and some even defended my handling of the situation. Does it make me look bad when I smart off to the Moderators and other people that "don't approve", maybe, but what's the difference, really, it's not relative to our work on amplifiers, it's relative to them kicking me, and me kicking back, and that's it. Has nothing to do with amp repair.

Anyone with real "sense" could see it for what it really is once they read it ALL. And I am not afraid of that. Everyone ends up with a few unhappy customers, we probably have less unhappy customers than most other business's in the car audio business, I'd be willing to bet money on that.

As far as being paid here or not, no I guess we are not officially, however we do pay on other sites that the owner of this site also owns, and we have been offered lots of deals to advertise here and have not taken advantage of any of them because most people here use stuff that we do not work on. About the only thing I see in here that we do work on is some Sundown and some Memphis Audio. I think the owner of Sundown even came to my defense here in this thread somewhere. I bet Sundown and Memphis have a few unhappy customers too, and I bet it likely had nothing to do with dB-r.


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## muriloalvares (Dec 17, 2009)

You know what? I have to agree with db-r here, whoever fixes amps knows what pain in the %$% it is, not to mention the fact that a good percentage of your customer base is a bunch of "not-smart-folks" who have absolutely no clue of what they were doing when installing, setting up and running the amp. 

I, myself, to this date, have yet to hear this phrase: "I damaged the amp, it was my fault".


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

muriloalvares said:


> You know what? I have to agree with db-r here, whoever fixes amps knows what pain in the %$% it is, not to mention the fact that a good percentage of your customer base is a bunch of "not-smart-folks" who have absolutely no clue of what they were doing when installing, setting up and running the amp.
> 
> I, myself, to this date, have yet to hear this phrase: "I damaged the amp, it was my fault".


It's ok Murilo. Everyone knows dB-r is a just a "douchecanoe" 

BTW: I thought this thread was supposed to make dB-r go out of business or something... What did I miss?

LMAO


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Must be a slow day fixing 5kW chinese crap for braindead SPL kids.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

benny said:


> Must be a slow day fixing 5kW chinese crap for braindead SPL kids.



What kind of stuff do you use? We don't work on Chinese made amps. Ask around before you assume. We turn all that crap away.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

"Welcome to dB-r Electronics. We repair Car Stereo Amplifiers. We specialize in Korean, and some Chinese made amplifiers."


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

db-r said:


> What kind of stuff do you use? We don't work on Chinese made amps. Ask around before you assume. We turn all that crap away.


What exactly DO you work on then?


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> What exactly DO you work on then?


CB radios and Sundown amps it looks like.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Good thing for him Jacob's keeping him going.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

benny said:


> Good thing for him Jacob's keeping him going.


We work on a lot of DC, RD, Atomic, American Bass, Crescendo, AQ, Powerbass, Maxxsonics (some see note below) and many more Korean made amplifiers.

The only Chinese amps we will service are some of the Maxxsonics products, some of their products are made in Korea (the expensive stuff) and some are made in China (the smaller stuff) also the Sundown SAE-1200Dv1 and SAE-1200Dv2. Those two were made in China, all the others they have ever sold are made South Korea.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

benny said:


> Good thing for him Jacob's keeping him going.


You honestly to god think your right don't you? Sad and laughable.

I wish more of Jacob's amps broke. His newest stuff makes Sundown like a long lost relative around this place.... We are plenty busy repairing older stuff that's 2,3,4 years old, yes, for out of warranty customers. But as far as how much money is coming in here from Jacob, FROM SUNDOWN. You would be shocked if you saw the numbers, not much.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Shoo. Your nuthuggers on CACO need you.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Good ole delete hammer... I see how it is, it's ok for that ******* to talk to me like that but not ok for me to talk to him like that....


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

db-r said:


> We work on a lot of DC, RD, Atomic, American Bass, Crescendo, AQ, Powerbass, Maxxsonics (some see note below) and many more Korean made amplifiers.
> 
> The only Chinese amps we will service are some of the Maxxsonics products, some of their products are made in Korea (the expensive stuff) and some are made in China (the smaller stuff) also the Sundown SAE-1200Dv1 and SAE-1200Dv2. Those two were made in China, all the others they have ever sold are made South Korea.


I always thought you were one of the few repair shops that stocked enough parts to repair just about anything that came out of the Zenon build house?

Don't take it as a dig, or an insult, or anything else... I was pretty much under the impression that if I knew someone with a Zenon product that went tits up, you'd be the first shop that I recommended.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

ChrisB said:


> I always thought you were one of the few repair shops that stocked enough parts to repair just about anything that came out of the Zenon build house?
> 
> Don't take it as a dig, or an insult, or anything else... I was pretty much under the impression that if I knew someone with a Zenon product that went tits up, you'd be the first shop that I recommended.



Zenon = South Korea.

Yes we work on most of their stuff, not all.

I don't think any of the brands that we regularly service use the Zenon build house anymore. They use a different one, but still in South Korea, not China. Maxxsonics has some copy cats of amps that originally came from Zenon, but they are made in China, and of course built a little cheaper, but still not bad. The smaller less expensive amplifiers tend to be made in China. Some of the hugged brands by the SQ community that claim to be Made in the USA are BS'ing you. The nearly fully soldered and ready boards and chassis parts are shipped over here to US from China and then they are Assembled in the USA in what they call a "board stuffing house".

Boy if start letting the cat out of the bag too much I will get bant. So I will stop now. Toodles.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

"Bant"?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

db-r said:


> Zenon = South Korea.
> 
> Yes we work on most of their stuff, not all.
> 
> ...


If only the Federal Trade Commission would do their damn job to stop this. But alas, this was NOTHING more than "feel good" legislation passed post September 11, 2001, preying on the hearts of patriotic Americans while doing absolutely NOTHING to stop the dishonesty! Hell, the sequester probably killed the budget allotted for investigating bogus "Made in USA" claims.

Don't even get me started on the patriotic American who gave me ish for driving a "Jap" car as he walked over to his Canadian assembled Camaro. He even tried to argue that I was wrong when I called his Canadian assembled Camaro an import. 

Like it or not, it's a global economy now! Even I am about to seek certification in the area of International Financial Reporting Standards. I guess the next stop will be International Tax. It's a changing world out there and one must either adapt or fall behind!


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> "Bant"?


It's cool to mispell things, thought that's why everyone is always misspelling lately..... And it's cool to make things sound ghetto. Like instead of saying "I got banned" someone from the ghetto might say, "I got bant from theyre". <-- LOL

Just being retarded that's all, it was supposed to be funny.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

ChrisB said:


> If only the Federal Trade Commission would do their damn job to stop this. But alas, this was NOTHING more than "feel good" legislation passed post September 11, 2001, preying on the hearts of patriotic Americans while doing absolutely NOTHING to stop the dishonesty! Hell, the sequester probably killed the budget allotted for investigating bogus "Made in USA" claims.



Sorry, but I am a Republican and a Shameless Capitalist.

But anyway, other than that, you are correct, people in the car audio world are constantly getting "da shaft" and have no idea. Even the folks at the illustrious DIYMA.

Want to say what's up to all my Industry peeps! see yall on the golf course after we all finish the cigarette boat races this weekend! YAY it's good to be good.

^^^^ See that's what really is going on behind the scene's.....


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

ROFL. Clownshoes.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

db-r said:


> Want to say what's up to all my Industry peeps! see yall on the golf course after we all finish the cigarette boat races this weekend! YAY it's good to be good.
> 
> ^^^^ See that's what really is going on behind the scene's.....


For the Record I was mocking the elites behind the scene's. Not myself. I am a poor bastard still, I do own a boat, but not a cigarette boat, and I cannot play golf. I'm just a little blunt, "rough around the edges" as I think Jacob said about me, but not a crook, and not a liar, and not an elite, just a regular guy that works with my hands.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Y no "say that to my face" over here?


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Who the hell keeps resurrecting this POS thread?
db-r, I see you're still the consummate troll. 
Anyone that considers doing business with your attitude deserves all the grief they get.
Don't bother responding, I'll just cut and paste the previous 50 posts from you that will mirror you latest thoughts.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

When it comes to a certain professions, technicians, particularly RF and audio, should NOT be allowed to play with the public.

Trust me, I'm one of them.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

db-r said:


> For the Record I was mocking the elites behind the scene's, just a regular guy that works with my hands.


Just so you know, you can learn to eat with your feet, TOO


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

chad said:


> When it comes to a certain professions, technicians, particularly RF and audio, should NOT be allowed to play with the public.
> 
> Trust me, I'm one of them.


YES YES YES ^^^^ THIS.

Could not have put it better myself. People start finding out stuff they don't want to know that blows their minds and they go into a Fetal position.

Thank you.

Benny-- Someone deleted it here.

Bret-- Im sorry dude, some people actually like me, go figure....


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

chad said:


> When it comes to a certain professions, technicians, particularly RF and audio, should NOT be allowed to play with the public.
> 
> Trust me, I'm one of them.



BTW: Chad. You make a good point about being an RF (Radio Frequency) tech also. The best of the best, the only ones who REALLY KNOW what's REALLY going on is the RF techs. Im a Ham! 73's


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

> Trust me, I'm one of them.


Yeah, Chad is all that he needs to be 

He's got an EE Degree, then everything else to boot !( roadie with bands, job in a college, mad skills at repairing things, et cetera )


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

Oliver said:


> Yeah, Chad is all that he needs to be
> 
> He's got an EE Degree, then everything else to boot !( roadie with bands, job in a college, mad skills at repairing things, et cetera )


If we had more RF techs involved in car audio junk the world would be a better place. Noone would lie about ****, they'd be called out on it. Chad knows what I mean. Im not a full blown RF tech, just a half-assed one, build some of my own Ham gear, but being a Ham and having a solid understanding of RF, makes me a much better tech than some who don't have the same experience/fundamental understanding.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

When I was not on the road I was a BE at a local radio plant owned by Saga Comminucations... Also a ham  What a learning experience. And it made me weirder, I think it's the RF, makes good birth control too..

RF is a WHOLE new world.... Explaining to someone who is "not into it" how a well earthed conductor can be an "open circuit" at a certain frequency baffles some, but it's a good litmus test to find out of they will be capable of absorbing the theories. (FWIW others, an end-grounded radiator makes a bitchin' omni antenna.)

But the COOL thing about it is when it comes to arrays, steering, and ERP. It follows the same basic principles of acoustics.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

chad said:


> And it made me weirder, I think it's the RF, makes good birth control too..


Yep, people whisper to others, "that guy is so weird, it's like he's talking in some alien language, where are the normal guys......" If you do find a woman that likes RF whether they understand it or not, the only question is WHERE did you find that one? My wife just rolls her eyes at my Radio Equipment.



> RF is a WHOLE new world.... Explaining to someone who is "not into it" how a well earthed conductor can be an "open circuit" at a certain frequency baffles some, but it's a good litmus test to find out of they will be capable of absorbing the theories. (FWIW others, an end-grounded radiator makes a bitchin' omni antenna.)


Yes, talking to someone who only understands electricity on a DC, perhaps AC, and on an AF(Audio Frequency) level they say things like "Won't that ground out your antenna, that cannot be right"..... OR something that appears to them to be an OPEN CIRCUIT, like making them understand that AC will travel across a capacitor such as a Gamma Match, even though it's not physically electrically connected at DC or AF, is a battle. Once they get past that they can begin to learn and understand. RF Splitters and Combiners and Transformers baffle their minds. It's funny. I am a General Class, could upgrade to Extra but no time. I have a LOT of friends who are Tech class and it's always fun, but a struggle teaching them.



> But the COOL thing about it is when it comes to arrays, steering, and ERP. It follows the same basic principles of acoustics.


It is fairly similar because the principals behind AF and RF are similar, but most don't have a solid grasp of AF to begin with, only a kid's story book level when they THINK they know a lot..... I think making them understand something like an array is quite easy because it physically combines and points/concentrates/resonates, but making them understand the BASICS like WHY does a Gamma match (or other capacitive type match systems) work is definitely the hard part. Lack of Fundamentals. 

It's never nice to tell someone who thinks they are smart that they are Fundamentally Dumb or "Lacking", it's best to feed their mind and then let them realize it within themselves because after the initial shock of realizing they are indeed Fundamentally "Dumb" they will move forward and be quite proud of themselves within. It's key in teaching.

^^^^ That last last sentence/paragraph is WHY we should not be allowed to play with the PUBLIC unless we agree to go easy on them.


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

When the trunk of your work car looks like this.........


1 x KW AF
1 x KW RF


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

55W RF under the seat, 500W AF in the trunk here 

When I got my tech I went ahead and took my general written and missed one, stopped there due to lack of time that day. Then All I had to do at the time was go pass my code test. Then they dropped code that year and I was too lazy to go in and pay the 14 dollars to upgrade 

Don't get into it as much as I used to, I'm sure I will again. I like to keep a rotating tray of hobbies


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## db-r (Apr 20, 2008)

chad said:


> 55W RF under the seat, 500W AF in the trunk here
> 
> When I got my tech I went ahead and took my general written and missed one, stopped there due to lack of time that day. Then All I had to do at the time was go pass my code test. Then they dropped code that year and I was too lazy to go in and pay the 14 dollars to upgrade
> 
> Don't get into it as much as I used to, I'm sure I will again. I like to keep a rotating tray of hobbies


I rotate mine depending on the season and weather, etc. Winter time I ham a little, Summer time I play with my boat at the lake and consume large amounts of beer while afloat under the wonderful Texas Sun. My version of fishing, is fishing in the cooler for another beer while enjoying my 19' 454 chevy powered jet boat. Not a fishing boat! (Only if you consider the fishing in the cooler for the beer) Makes all the worries and cares about the idiots I deal with on a daily basis just disappear.

I took Tech and General in same sitting and passed both and stopped there, studied for 1 week prior, will go back and get Extra later whenever I feel up to it, I work HF and 2M and that's about it, and it's getting to be a rare occasion, haven't worked HF in months, my old FT-101EE needs new output tubes. I enjoy building and experimenting and just LISTENING more than I do talking. Also I am a fairly avid Shortwave Listener. I like to hear the REAL WORLD NEWS, not the version they put on our US TV.

I was building RF amplifiers long before I was licensed. Luckily never got caught! Units pictured in trunk are in there now, I built them in 2002. I rarely use them, as notice in pic, no LPF.


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## fruit loops (Dec 31, 2012)

Best thread i've ever seen.


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## loosescrew (Jul 28, 2016)

Just bought a refurbished scv6000 hope it dont take long to get here.7 to 10 business days till shipping.hope it comes because I need another. And I have my mind set on going thru db r. day 5 already.gettn nerves because of some posts


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