# not impressed with my new steg k4 02



## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

well.. i bought a steg k402 and im really not impressed with it. i had a boston gt 40 and im honestly thinking of trading it in for either a boston gt 42 or an audiosystem f4 600. it sounded a lot like my boston. i was expecting a lot more quality. but power is insane, no doubt. they look nice though.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

You've identified your own problem. You bought an amp and expected it to "sound" different.


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

ha ha.. well.. going from an 800$ amp to a 1800$ amp... id expect some sort of difference. also.. money doesn't mean you'll get a better amp too. but as far as that goes, should i bother trying to get something else?


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I sure hope you didn't pay $1800 since msrp on that amp is only about $1200.

An amplifier should do just as the name implies..........amplify. If you're looking for an improvement in sound you should be looking elsewhere. You'd be much better off putting your money towards something that matters like better install, better speakers, adding an eq etc.


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## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> You've identified your own problem. You bought an amp and expected it to "sound" different.


Guess what.... He just said it did

@ OP: The twisters sound much warmer than the stegs. The stegs are pretty uncolored, even might say a little cold (the QM's are even worse)


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

That's why you buy amps for power output and reliability, not sound. Most people have a bad habit of listening with their eyes and wallets. A watt is a watt. A reliable watt is better than an unreliable watt though. Make sure to get an amp that's well built, will provide it's rated power or more, and do it for a long period of time. If you want a good crossover etc. add that to your criteria. Aside from that, spend no more than you need to on an amp and put the rest of it in what matters, aka speakers, processing, install equipment, deadening, cold beer, etc.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

XC-C30 said:


> Guess what.... He just said it did





Tdx_Kid said:


> it sounded a lot like my boston.


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## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

ca90ss said:


>


He didn't say identical, now did he


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

XC-C30 said:


> He didn't say identical, now did he


He also didn't specify the differences either other than the extra power.


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

well in canada all car audio is more expensive than in the usa. but it retails for about 1800 here yea. i got it for 1000$


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> He also didn't specify the differences either other than the extra power.


Cuz any perceived "differences" are sheer mental masturbation


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## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

But he did also imply wanting to trade for something different. Now if amps all sound the same and he wasn't impressed with the steg, why would he do that


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

i have a pair of diamond audio d971's.. theyre good speaks but i know theres better by now.. ive had these for a while. i got some nice rca cables.. dont wanna have to upgrade those haha.. i have street wires zn6's. last year's top model. i have a clarion dxz955mc pro audio for a good clean signal to amps.. yeah these amps do sound cold... or on that side atleast.


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

for subs i would choose a steg amp. maybe a k2 03. get my 900 rms @ 4 ohms.. maybe a k2 02... i had a f2 500 for subs.. didnt like it much.. didnt sound as good as the diamond audio1500.1 i used to have.


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## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

Tdx_Kid said:


> i have a pair of diamond audio d971's.. theyre good speaks but i know theres better by now.. ive had these for a while. i got some nice rca cables.. dont wanna have to upgrade those haha.. i have street wires zn6's. last year's top model. i have a clarion dxz955mc pro audio for a good clean signal to amps.. yeah these amps do sound cold... or on that side atleast.


Go with the audio system twisters. You'll be happy, and it's cheaper too.

If there wasn't like 90% of the people here running them already (besides GroundZero and Rockford), I might have gone with them too. They're not that expensive, make good power and with the right match they can sound really sweet..... what more do you want....


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## XC-C30 (Jul 24, 2007)

If you want the twisters to sound good on a sub, you pretty much need alu cones. papercones will get sloppy....


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

XC-C30 said:


> But he did also imply wanting to trade for something different. Now if amps all sound the same and he wasn't impressed with the steg, why would he do that


Because his dissatisfaction stems from things far more important than the "sonic attributes" of an amplifier, and if said attributes did exist they would still be completely negated by them irregardless. Like an acoustic environment with a 70db noise floor, inability to create a true stereo reproduction due to limitations of the car environment, distortion of the speakers themselves which in a car at real world levels is generally 50x as high as anything a decent amplifier puts out anywhere below clipping, comb filtering, early reflections, late reflections, panel resonances, lack of a good enclosure for midbasses, inability to tune to a satisfactory level due to the horrible acoustic environment and an unavailability of good hardware/software/algorithms even if you have a carPC, etc.


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

i had that amp on 1 diamond audio d6 12's.. they have aluminum cones i believe. the sub i want to get is an id max 12 inch.. someday.. cant afford it now


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

im thinking a steg k2 02 on an id max would sound fairly good. steg amps have real good damping factors.. good control over what they power.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Dangerranger said:


> Because his dissatisfaction stems from things far more important than the "sonic attributes" of an amplifier, and if said attributes did exist they would still be completely negated by them irregardless. Like an acoustic environment with a 70db noise floor, inability to create a true stereo reproduction due to limitations of the car environment, distortion of the speakers themselves which in a car at real world levels is generally 50x as high as anything a decent amplifier puts out anywhere below clipping, comb filtering, early reflections, late reflections, panel resonances, lack of a good enclosure for midbasses, inability to tune to perfection due to the horrible acoustic environment, etc.


That's just crazy talk. I bet he mounted his amp upside down and all of the sq dust fell out.


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

ca90ss said:


> That's just crazy talk. I bet he mounted his amp upside down and all of the sq dust fell out.


I did that once. Bummed me out, the midrange was not as open. I had to send the amp away to get more added. I think they may have added too much though. Now the upper treble seems veiled. 

Do you think I should rip my mp3's at a different bitrate? I have sure been happy with 128, it sounds more analog. Maybe 96 would be better.


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## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Audio-System Twister amps are great amps for the money with a nice warm signature
Steg QM's are not much more expensive, have a great power supply, have a cold signature, but are not 1 ohm stereo/2ohm mono stable.
Steg K's have exactly the same sonic signature, the same great power supply, but with added monitoring and 1 ohm stereo stability.

If you don't need the 1 ohm stereo stability and don't want the monitoring (because it's 'cool' to have that?), you could have just bought the Steg QM's and get the exact same sound, maybe just a little more hiss on quiet parts on high volume levels, but that's it.

The Steg K is not different in sonic signature than the Steg QM and the Audio-System Twisters are not 'cheap Stegs', Audio-System Twisters are completely different amps, but it's not because they're cheaper and made by the same company, they are less good, they just sound warmer, wich can be a good or a bad thing!

I've had Steg amps and I still have a Steg QM monoblock, they are good amps for the money, but it has it's reasons why I bought myself some second-hand Genesisses for the front-set...

greetz,
Isabelle


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> You've identified your own problem. You bought an amp and expected it to "sound" different.


But he didn't say they don't sound different, even he prefers the sound of his boston and the audiosystem! so he has heard the difference even if all amps shuold sound alike.


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## Kpg2713 (Feb 10, 2008)

Why don't you stop putting words in the OP's mouth? Let him say whether he perceived a difference in sound or not. And who really cares, one sides gonna say it isn't possible and the other will of course it is. So lame! Could it possibly be that he feels there should have been a difference in sound and when he didn't notice an increase in quality realized it wasn't worth it to him to spend the extra cash? IDK, I'd let him say what he feels about it and leave it at that.


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

i do believe there is a difference yes. if there is no difference in sound reproduction in amplifiers then answer this question.. why do you not sport pyramid audio's amplifiers? you can get an 800 watt amp for a whopping 100$ youd be further than all of us. instead of spending thousands on amps that may or may not be able to reproduce a good quality sound, you can have a whole system for nearly 400$!! now theres a deal!!


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

sorry guys... 400 may have been quite the overstatement. lol


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Tdx_Kid said:


> i why do you not sport pyramid audio's amplifiers?


I have a pyramid amp that I would have no problem running in my system.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Someone mentioned it earlier but the issue with Pyramid is reliability moreso than any type of special sound it would put out.


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

my first amp was a pyramid... couldn't set the gains low enough to avoid distortion.. i paid like 60$ for it and it supposedly had 500 watts... more like 60 clean watts and that's about it.


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

farshad said:


> But he didn't say they don't sound different, even he prefers the sound of his boston and the audiosystem! so he has heard the difference even if all amps shuold sound alike.


He stated it sounded a lot like his Boston did, he expected a lot more quality, which I'm quite sure meant he expected a level of quality much higher than the amps he was using and he didn't get it. He did note the additional power output which fully accounts for the difference in sound that he did realize simply due to increased headroom and being able to produce the same levels without clipping (or at least clipping as often). Not exactly a compelling case for subjectivism, if anything the fact that he didn't realize a worthwhile change from buying a more expensive amplifier is blatant proof of the uselessness of arguments over amplifier sonics.

Any "difference" between amps is going to be noticed in a state of extreme clipping, in which the most linear amps in the world (aka the high end ones) tend to be the ones that clip hardest and have very sharp distortion spikes due to the level of feedback used on the output devices, as well as their being more linear to begin with (generally bipolars are used in high end amps). But choosing an amplifier based upon it's performance in a state of extreme overload would be like choosing a truck based upon how the engine performs when it's on the verge of turning a bearing. Not ideal circumstances nor a good comparison to compare normal situations when they perform as they should. Save those arguments for times when the user intends to overdrive devices, such as guitarists choosing tube amps due to the even order distortion being more pleasant. In other words, only when the system is used for production rather than REproduction.

If one wants more performance, buy more power. I'd rather have a "mid-level" reliable amplifier that for the money gives you twice the power output than the high end amplifier that goes for the same price. You'll get much better performance that way


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## Kpg2713 (Feb 10, 2008)

Tdx_Kid said:


> i do believe there is a difference yes. if there is no difference in sound reproduction in amplifiers then answer this question.. why do you not sport pyramid audio's amplifiers? you can get an 800 watt amp for a whopping 100$ youd be further than all of us. instead of spending thousands on amps that may or may not be able to reproduce a good quality sound, you can have a whole system for nearly 400$!! now theres a deal!!


I'm sorry but I do not want to support Pyramid as a company. That and I have less than $300 into the PPI's for my system.


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## alg_alg (Jun 13, 2006)

steg K series could be compared to RF power series amps in terms of sound. well, thats what i heard


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## vjgli (Nov 4, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> I have a pyramid amp that I would have no problem running in my system.


I suppose using a NE5534 sounds the same as OP627?
I also suppose using a opto-coupler in the audio chain to reduce noise sounds the same as proper board layout? let alone going to 4-layer pcb?

What is your opinion between 22pf ceramic disc vs. multi-layer axial cap?

Adding Low ESR E-caps in the audio chain sounds the same as standard E-Cap?

Single layer w/ jumpers sounds the same as 4-layer pcb?

Bottom line is, one needs to find out where and who is designing the board.

So, two amps from two different companies can sound the same.

Unless, you are an engineer and can decipher board layout, just drop the nonsense.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

vjgli said:


> I suppose using a NE5534 sounds the same as OP627?
> I also suppose using a opto-coupler in the audio chain to reduce noise sounds the same as proper board layout? let alone going to 4-layer pcb?
> 
> What is your opinion between 22pf ceramic disc vs. multi-layer axial cap?
> ...



Lol, aren't we an angry one.

I'm glad you made all of these assumptions not even knowing anything about the amp in question other than the name it was marketed under. Pyramid in the past just like many other manufacturers made a quality product at one point in time and I'm willing to bet that the McIntosh, Linear Power, Adcom, Genesis, Phoenix Gold MS or any of the other amps I have laying around will sound exactly the same going down the road with the windows down.

You can feel secure with your BB op-amps, multi-layer pcb's and other uber components, meanwhile I'll put my effort towards something that will make an actual difference in my systems performance.


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## alg_alg (Jun 13, 2006)

i also have to disagree that all amps sound the same. thats why we actually get better and matching equipment for car SQ.

if everything sounds the same when the windows rolled down, then roll it up and hear the difference  jk!

ive tried a lot of different amps and head units using the same EQ setting and i get different results everytime. For me, some components produce better SQ than others, regardless of power output.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I never said they all sound the same.


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## alg_alg (Jun 13, 2006)

yep but a lot of people seem to believe so


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## Tdx_Kid (May 16, 2007)

ive definitely have had a lot of stuff in the passed. recently ive gotten into the higher end of the car audio world. and ive noticed a huge difference in sq from my start till now.


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## pjhabit (Aug 12, 2008)

There is a Steg dealer about 50 minutes from me, but I don't want to make the trip w/o an idea of the prices. Are there any online dealers or other sites that have these things priced out?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Sounds like somebody needs to take an ABX test for themselves and find out if they have a golden ear or not.

I'm guessing NOT.

Different parts in the amp may make the amp different, but there's a significant bet in the audio world that YOU won't be able to tell the difference. $10,000 (U.S.), was it, again?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> Different parts in the amp may make the amp different, but there's a significant bet in the audio world that YOU won't be able to tell the difference. $10,000 (U.S.), was it, again?


Here we go again...

For the last time, RC does not say all amps sound alike. If that were true, he wouldn't make you manipulate them for the test. That very fact proves that RC most definitely DOES think amps sound different.

Secondly, just about everyone clips their amp at some point unless you are running 250w+ per driver. Amps sound different at clipping. Everyone acknowledges this.

RC's results belong IN A LAB. That's it! They have no bearing on real world applications where real people deal with RF interference, clipping, power fluctuations, etc.

If you put your amp on a conditioned power source, free from all electrical interference, never play it loud enough to clip, and disable every feature on the amp that made you want to buy that amp in the first place--then and ONLY then do amps probably sound very similar.

Yeah, that's a useful observation for real world listening...


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> For the last time, RC does not say all amps sound alike. If that were true, he wouldn't make you manipulate them for the test. That very fact proves that RC most definitely DOES think amps sound different.


I'm glad someone said it, I think more people think that's what RC is saying then there is people that think amps sound different.

Go google RC's challenge people, at NO point does he say all amps sound the same, what he is stating is that two amps of reasonable quality with some _manipulation_ (aka EQ etc) of the signal can and will sound the same. So what he is saying is don't waste money swapping amps out to find the sound your after but rather buy quality with the features you need, and spend your money on the parts that can make a bigger difference speakers, Equalizers etc...

So yes amps can and some do sound different, but is it worth worrying about NO. Use things like EQ etc... to get the sound you like.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

Luke352 said:


> I'm glad someone said it, I think more people think that's what RC is saying then there is people that think amps sound different.
> 
> Go google RC's challenge people, at NO point does he say all amps sound the same, what he is stating is that two amps of reasonable quality with some _manipulation_ (aka EQ etc) of the signal can and will sound the same. So what he is saying is don't waste money swapping amps out to find the sound your after but rather buy quality with the features you need, and spend your money on the parts that can make a bigger difference speakers, Equalizers etc...
> 
> So yes amps can and some do sound different, but is it worth worrying about NO. Use things like EQ etc... to get the sound you like.


aaand again !!! I'd bet that in a level-matched listening test you won't hear any difference. even if you're comparing a very cheap amp against a very very expensive amp like Audison Thesis.
yes out of the box most amps sound different but the difference is due to the more power and gain's. RC used the EQ's for the crappy amps or the tubes which didn't have flat FR Graph but today in most amps that's not the issue. but still some people don't get it !


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

farshad said:


> aaand again !!! I'd bet that in a level-matched listening test you won't hear any difference. even if you're comparing a very cheap amp against a very very expensive amp like Audison Thesis.
> yes out of the box most amps sound different but the difference is due to the more power and gain's. RC used the EQ's for the crappy amps or the tubes which didn't have flat FR Graph but today in most amps that's not the issue. but still some people don't get it !



Did I say ALL amps? Did I say by HOW much? Yes I do believe amps can sound different but I think most sound the same or and that most of the others that do sound different are by such a small amount that I probably really couldn't tell the difference. So I'd rather you actually read what I wrote before reading what you wantwd and adding in things in your mind. So yes I believe amps can sound different, but some of the claims made in this thread about the supposed sonic difference in amps I find amusing since as you stated for there to really be a difference we have to be comparing amps from different ends of the spectrum.


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## pjhabit (Aug 12, 2008)

Didn't mean to stir up another debate...just wanted info on this \/ \/ \/, without making another thread


pjhabit said:


> There is a Steg dealer about 50 minutes from me, but I don't want to make the trip w/o an idea of the prices. Are there any online dealers or other sites that have these things priced out?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I wasn't trying to stir anything up either, but set the record completely straight.

The point is valid and remains that, if you can tell the difference in an amp, then I believe there is some money you can earn quite quickly. Why, that would let you buy even better-sounding amps! 

In a car, driving down the road, with non-ideal speaker mounting conditions and a massive amount of odd-shaped glass, plastic, and metal all around you... no chance in hell that you'll hear the difference between an amp provided you are playing them in their normal non-clipping output range.

Great, expensive amps are very nice amplifiers of music, no doubt about it. But, to say that one is "cold", and one is "open"...I just don't buy it. Clean power is what you need, and I'm sure there are many options that fit the bill. 

Hell, put the Steg up on an RTA compared with another amp of your choice...let's see the difference and see if there's some signal manipulation there.


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## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Here we go again


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

you have to excuse him, as he was away from the forum for quite some time and probably missed a bunch of "amp sound" orgies we had here .


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

yermolovd said:


> you have to excuse him, as he was away from the forum for quite some time and probably missed a bunch of "amp sound" orgies we had here .



LMFAO!!

I have no reply to this except to say, you're correct I was gone for a bit...but I doubt I missed much in the sense of an entire change of sensibility of the smart cookies on this forum.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

I am actually doing my own experiment on the "different" sound of amps. I've tried out a few recently and will try one more high-end brand. Thus far, I can't say that I could tell one from the other if given a listening test. I have to admit that my cheap Crunch amp that I had about a dozen years ago was the most problem free amp I've ever owned. It always performed, never overheated, never cut out and never let me down, ever.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

Luke352 said:


> Did I say ALL amps? Did I say by HOW much? Yes I do believe amps can sound different but I think most sound the same or and that most of the others that do sound different are by such a small amount that I probably really couldn't tell the difference. So I'd rather you actually read what I wrote before reading what you wantwd and adding in things in your mind. So yes I believe amps can sound different, but some of the claims made in this thread about the supposed sonic difference in amps I find amusing since as you stated for there to really be a difference we have to be comparing amps from different ends of the spectrum.


sorry, I apologose for any offence i may have given to you. i wasn't talking about you and i don't want to be offensive!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> The point is valid and remains that, if you can tell the difference in an amp, then I believe there is some money you can earn quite quickly. Why, that would let you buy even better-sounding amps!


No, the point is not valid. It is patently untrue in fact. You are feeding the misconception with this statement.

There is $10,000 to be made if you can tell the difference between amps *if you first*,

1) Put them on a stable power source, free of any fluctuations which might show one amp has a heartier power supply.

2) Remove them from a car where electrical interference abounds and stick them in a dedicated listening room so as to negate one amp's better shielding.

3) Do not drive them into clipping which almost everyone does if you turn it up. (I can clip a 150w per channel amp like nobody's business without even trying.)

4) Open up the amp and rip out any circuits which you paid for that color the sound. If this still doesn't meet RC's satisfaction, he will EQ one of the amps *TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE THE OTHER ONE*!

5) Keep the amps from going into thermal protection during the test. This protects any amps with shoddy design or construction from being discovered. After all, why would an amp's thermal capacity bear any relevance in a car trunk where temperatures can approach 150 degrees?

6) Make sure no amp exhibits excessive noise. I don't know what excessive is, but if it enables you to spot the difference between amps, I'll bet you $10k that RC would call it excessive.

Amps most certainly do sound different, but you can *MAKE THEM* sound similar. RC's argument is mostly that amp topologies sound the same. Three identical amps, one full class A, one tube, and one A/B, will all sound the same if all other factors are the same. That is the point of RC's challenge. He doesn't say amps sound the same, he says identical amps with different topologies will sound the same. That has nothing to do with this thread and since most people can clip their amps, I'm not sure it has any relevance at all. I know that it has no relevance in real world applications, because real world situations expose the differences in amps.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

Mooble said:


> 3) Do not drive them into clipping which almost everyone does if you turn it up. (I can clip a 150w per channel amp like nobody's business without even trying.)


buy more powerful amps. 



Mooble said:


> 4) Open up the amp and rip out any circuits which you paid for that color the sound


I won't buy an amp that has built in EQing or a certain sound, and the difference you're hearing is related to the difference in the output levels/gain's and power most of the times, not the cicuits you are talking about.



Mooble said:


> Amps most certainly do sound different, but you can *MAKE THEM* sound similar.


No, Amps sound the same but the companie's make them sound different.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

And I side with Farshad on this one, and this is from my own listening, my own testing, etc. An amp amplifies. The best ones IMO do it completely transparently. The Zuki amp I got to hear did this quite well, especially at low to moderate volume. But my PPI, my old MTX, and pretty much every amp I've got a chance to listen to with exception to hybrid tube amps all sound the same, or close enough that I would not be able to detect the difference in critical listening tests back to back double-blind.


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## vjgli (Nov 4, 2007)

Dangerranger said:


> That's why you buy amps for power output and reliability, not sound. Most people have a bad habit of listening with their eyes and wallets. A watt is a watt. A reliable watt is better than an unreliable watt though. Make sure to get an amp that's well built, will provide it's rated power or more, and do it for a long period of time. If you want a good crossover etc. add that to your criteria. Aside from that, spend no more than you need to on an amp and put the rest of it in what matters, aka speakers, processing, install equipment, deadening, cold beer, etc.


Are you saying that if one amp uses FET outputs will sound the same as Bi-Polar outputs? Even though all FETs have an inherent problem with very high output impedance?

Or using or not using proper decoupling caps.
Or using 22pF sounds the same as using 100pF in the input gain stage filters?

Or how about EMI.

On the contrary, I think you are listening with your eyes by merely looking at a heatsink and PCB.
Even though you probably have no clue what you're looking at besides comments like, " nice looking board"?

So, basically, all of this means nothing?


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## vjgli (Nov 4, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> You've identified your own problem. You bought an amp and expected it to "sound" different.


I agree on this case. Since they both are sold by the same company.
Power config might be different but the topology are the same.
So, of course they will sound similar.

Italian version of 'Made in China' syndrome of same design but with different packaging?

Just maybe?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

vjgli said:


> Are you saying that if one amp uses FET outputs will sound the same as Bi-Polar outputs? Even though all FETs have an inherent problem with very high output impedance?
> 
> Or using or not using proper decoupling caps.
> Or using 22pF sounds the same as using 100pF in the input gain stage filters?
> ...



Yep. To the ears, which matter. Our ears just can't hear the difference when asked to tell it. At least mine can't, they're good to ~-27dB difference in distortion, which I thought was pretty good but if you convert that to distortion %...well it isn't.


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