# Full Range or Tweeter Recommendation



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Over the weekend I was given a pair of Visaton W200 woofers, since there is no way these are going to fit in my car, I figure I should use them for some bookshelf speakers to either use in the office or garage. 

So I am now trying to find either a tweeter that can play down to about 1,500 Hz or going with a small (3-4" full range). Any suggestions? The W200 are the 4 ohm version.

Along with the tweet/full range I also need a crossover. Are there any out there that would work? or should I look to put my own together? Looking at this site:

2-Way Crossover Designer / Calculator

I am hoping that I could get away with either a 1st or 2nd order for simplicity sake. 

Budget for this is low, the woofers were free, the plan is to keep everything else cheap and cheerful and make it a fun little project I can get my kids to help out with.

Thanks.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Large format tweets play low but 1500hz is a stretch. Perhaps a cone tweet/fullrange type will suit. Partsexpress has bunches to choose from though sensitivity will be an issue. Attenuation in the xover.


----------



## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

what diameter are the woofers you got? not familiar with them. I'd be looking into a good car audio coaxial and a pro audio crossover, reason for pro audio is because they usually have low crossover points like 1.5 k or even 800 hz, and if you used a 4 coaxial you could go even lower than that. something like the polk db series, like $50 or less for the pair would work nicely.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

W200 are 8"


----------



## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Not sure what you want to spend. these Tweeters aren't the very cheapest out there but this are very good, And a real value tweeters that can play fairly low.
Dayton Audio RS28f or RS28a
SB 29RDC-C0004
SB 26ADC-C0004
some have those SB's on sale
I was considering this full range for a 2 way project at one time.
Dayton Audio PS95-8


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

$50 or less for the pair just went out the door with that. 

I'm quite sure there's much to be had for less at P.E. if you look in the buyouts as well. The fullrange section has much offerings from Peerless, Dayton. and a few reputable others that won't bust that budget. On axis something around 2" should do well enough down that low. 

Looking at the W200's available graphs may lead you in the right direction


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I can sell you a set of these for $50 plus the ride, would prob work really well with what you want to do. 

FR070WA01_02


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I can sell you a set of these for $50 plus the ride, would prob work really well with what you want to do.
> 
> FR070WA01_02


Odd that I just ended a WTB thread for those. No one answered of course but found some anyway.


----------



## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Andy said his GB15 will play down to 1.5KHz at 24db slopes. It's expensive tho ;P


----------



## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Found these...

Galaxy Audio STN1.5 1.5" Neodymium Tweeter


Erin tried these ages ago too with some success I believe

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-2-fullrange/aurasound-nsw2-326-8at-2-full-range/


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> I'm quite sure there's much to be had for less at P.E. if you look in the buyouts as well. The fullrange section has much offerings from Peerless, Dayton. and a few reputable others that won't bust that budget. On axis something around 2" should do well enough down that low.


That's exactly where I am looking at the moment, fairly sure I can find something there.



[email protected] said:


> I can sell you a set of these for $50 plus the ride, would prob work really well with what you want to do.


Will keep these in mind and let you know if I can't find anything. 



I800C0LLECT said:


> Erin tried these ages ago too with some success I believe
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-2-fullrange/aurasound-nsw2-326-8at-2-full-range/


I had one of those Aurasound speakers until not that long ago, was running it for a center channel. I gave it away in the classifieds though, typically really as it might have been ideal to use and I would have only had to buy 1 more.

Would these work well with the W200: 

http://www.parts-express.com/visaton-frs8-4-33-full-range-speaker-4-ohm--292-522

Not very sensitive, but cheap and play's plenty low enough to match with the woofer.


----------



## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I think a 3" starts to beam around 4K or something rather. Aiming would be important then. You don't have much to lose at that price. If probably double check the volume to see how much space sealing them would take up.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> Odd that I just ended a WTB thread for those. No one answered of course but found some anyway.


Sorry, I am not on the forum much, so I did not see it. I would have sold a set to you  as I have a couple sets.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I would have loved to support a member as usual but no biggie. Bad timing I suppose.


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

I800C0LLECT said:


> If probably double check the volume to see how much space sealing them would take up.


Not much, per Parts Express the sealed volume is 0.06 ft.³ with an F3 of 111 Hz. After looking a bit more though I am wondering if one of these would in fact work:

Tymphany BC25TG15-04 1" Silk Dome Tweeter

Tymphany XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter

Both look as though they play low enough that I think I could get away with crossing them at 2000 Hz. 

W200 Frequency Response

Then I am just left with what I think is the hardest piece, figuring out a crossover.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Looking at the graph doesn't tell much as no different axis are shown. There seems to be a slight anomaly around 800hz then it mellows out to around 1500 or so. 

Not sure how I feel about a cheap 8 playing up that high off axis so a good cure would be a small wideband driver. You avoid any possible beaming and crossed upwards near 800hz (maybe less, maybe more), you're definitely in a range that the little drivers can handle power. Biggest deal will be attenuation circuits... resistors but that's not a problem either.


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> Looking at the graph doesn't tell much as no different axis are shown. There seems to be a slight anomaly around 800hz then it mellows out to around 1500 or so.
> 
> Not sure how I feel about a cheap 8 playing up that high off axis so a good cure would be a small wideband driver. You avoid any possible beaming and crossed upwards near 800hz (maybe less, maybe more), you're definitely in a range that the little drivers can handle power. Biggest deal will be attenuation circuits... resistors but that's not a problem either.


Thanks for the replies on this, the Peerless TC6FD00-04 or Fountek FE85 look like they would allow me to cross over at a much lower range, but both still play plenty high enough as well. The piece I am not sure of though, is on axis/off axis (just not something I know how to look into).


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Some brands include response measurements at different degrees which will be noted if so. Some brands won't as in the case with the W200. All drivers start to lose smooth dispersion as you get more off axis so that's fairly basic. 

Also keep In mind the same will happen with the small widebanders except it will be higher up in frequency so I would try to use a driver as small as possible to avoid that. Many will have a rising response too and while it helps off-axis, on-axis can become peaky so a common practice is to knock down the rising response with an eq. If you don't have one then I suggest sticking to a large format soft dome tweeter.


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

No EQ, so it sounds as though finding a large soft dome tweeter may be the way to go. These are essentially trying to be as basic as possible, and will likely use one of the cheap Lepai amps on Parts Express to power them (to give you an idea of what I am doing with them).


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Ha does wonders to switch from mobile to desktop (cell phones aren't quite there yet). Anyways... found the dispersion charts and from the looks of it, it's safe to use a tweeter around 2khz. 

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/tech-diagrams/292-570-visaton-9029-technical-diagram-2910.pdf


Mating to them should be fairly easy with a tweet like this. It's 4 ohms so you can series the pairing and have an 8 ohm load if need be. It's 94 db sensitivity will need to be padded down to match the sensitivity of the W200 86 db, but nothing uncommon. 

Tymphany BC25TG15-04 1" Silk Dome Tweeter


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> Anyways... found the dispersion charts and from the looks of it, it's safe to use a tweeter around 2khz


Amazing how that one sentence, coupled with the pdf linked makes those charts so much easier to understand! Thanks for that. 

Now onto crossover research for which I am sure to be back with more questions.


----------



## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

naiku said:


> Amazing how that one sentence, coupled with the pdf linked makes those charts so much easier to understand! Thanks for that.
> 
> Now onto crossover research for which I am sure to be back with more questions.


Nice... Yeah, the beaming thing was over my head for quite a while. Those charts flipped the switch on for me too.

I believe Andy suggests 24db slopes unless the speakers are within the distance of the wavelength at the crossover. I think parts express or madisound will build on request.

There's really a lot of approaches to take as some guys prefer beaming as a characteristic for their installs. I suppose that boils down to how your attempting to use, avoid, or manipulate reflections.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Well the exact crossover frequency is different from the acoustic sum. Keep in mind it won't be a brick wall so depending upon slope there will still be some response beyond the cross point. Finding that happy medium is where it gets tricky


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

It looks like Madisound do, but only on speakers they stock and it's $40 for the design only, not sure how much it is to actually build one. But, I would imagine it's at least another $25 on top of the design. 

I attempted one myself, OK used online calculators:










C1 = Capacitor 19.88 uF
L1 = Inductor 0.32 mH
R1 = Resistor 2.41 Ohms
R2 = Resistor 2.65 Ohms

That's a 1st order Butterworth, with an L-Pad for tweeter attenuation.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The thing about passives are most are experimental until the right combo is found. Start simple and take time to auditorily evaluate what you have done. And don't forget to have fun while learning.


----------

