# Sundown vs JL



## Pizipe

Been out of the scene for a while. I'm trying to put together a system for my 07 Silverado crew cab. I'm probably going to build a box and port through the cabin. Down to Sundown X Series or JL W7's. I've had W7's in the past and liked them, but the sundown's look like a sweet sub. Which direction would
You go? I would do 2 13w7's or 2 15 X's. Looking for a good mix between SPl and SQ.


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## tat2bass

If you are willing to spend the money on a W7, a ZV4 would be a better option that the X series. The X series is more so designed to be a low end monster. It doesn't like to play anything in the higher range. The ZV4 will get down low as well but is better designed in regards to being a better mix or SQ and SPL.


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## ZMan2k2

As a former JL W3 owner, and a current Sundown SD-2 owner, I would probably, in your decision, go with the JL. They are a little smoother sub, designed more for musicality, where the Sundown subs are really SPL monsters. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sundowns, they do exactly what I want them to, but the JL's are a little better musicality wise.


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## BuickGN

I haven't heard the Sundown in question so I can't choose but remember the W7 is a SQ sub that happens to have a lot of linear excursion and gets loud. Put it in a good enclosure and it sound very, very, nice and it will get loud. Plus the 13W7 has almost as much cone area as some of the lower cone area 15s along with over 4" of peak to peak travel when you're looking for lots of output.


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## edzyy

Apples to oranges.


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## ImK'ed

W15gti ftw! The sub that gets low and punches hard!


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## qwertydude

Pizipe said:


> Been out of the scene for a while. I'm trying to put together a system for my 07 Silverado crew cab. I'm probably going to build a box and port through the cabin. Down to Sundown X Series or JL W7's. I've had W7's in the past and liked them, but the sundown's look like a sweet sub. Which direction would
> You go? I would do 2 13w7's or 2 15 X's. Looking for a good mix between SPl and SQ.


What to you is SQ? SQ is subjective. What do you want the subwoofer to do? Some people think SQ means playing flat down to 10 hz and keep recommending tuning below 20 hz as a viable solution to SQ.

For me it's having a subwoofer that plays flat all the way to midbass frequencies because I don't like having to run tons of power to midbasses because I want my midbasses to play midrange very clearly so they can't be forced to play bass. A subwoofer that can play midbass also will punch much harder than any 6.5's no matter how much power you put in them.

So we would need a better description of your ultimate goal then I want it loud and I want it to sound good.

What kind of music do you listen to? What kind of front stage are you looking to install? Are you willing to go active on the front stage? Any processing? What kind of space constraints do you have or what kind of space are you willing to give up? All of those can have an influence on what type of subwoofer and insallation you're going to end up with.


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## Pizipe

Alright that's fair, I'll get more accurate in my description. I'll
Be running an Morel Elate 9 3 way setup for a front stage. An alpine PXA H800 for processing and Genesis Series 3 for amps. I listen to a variety of Music. I need the subs to extend very low with some of my techno, but also accurately reproduce say, some bass guitar riffs from primus. Or keep up with some Metallica double kick drum. Then turn right around and be mello
enough to tackle the Chello on a Norah Jones track when my wife is in the car.


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## qwertydude

For that kind of versatility and high output there is no doubt in my mind the JBL WGTi will be your best choice.

The WGTi will play as deep as you need and at extremely high power but it is also one of those rare subs that can play up to midrange frequencies completely clearly. Most people think since you cross them over anyways playing those frequencies is meaningless. But definitely consider letting it play higher into midbass. It'll help take the bass stress out of the Morel's letting them play more cleanly and loudly but even a nice set of components will not have the punch on 300 watts as much as the WGTi on just 50 watts. 

The WGTi will play very flat and will integrate well and play cleanly at nearly any frequency you set it to. This versatility and midbass is what will give you that "fast" bass, I will tell you if you like that kick you in the chest "fast bass" it would be hard to beat the WGTi and that's including a punchy sub like the W7, in terms of punchiness the W7 can't even compare to the WGTi. It's so accurate that you'll literally feel every pluck, strum and slap of the bass guitar down to even what distortion settings the bass player is using and the subtle textures of cello's in a classically oriented Snorah Jones piece will really shine.

And compared to the W7 the pricing is definitely better. Get them while you can too since JBL seems to be getting out of car audio and they really are as cracked up as everyone says they are when it comes to SQ.


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## BuickGN

I disagree about the JBL sounding quicker or punchier than the W7. Put the W7 in the correct enclosure (larger than factory recommended or IB) and it outright slams you in the chest. My personal W7 experience is mostly with the 13W7 in an IB config but I've heard lots of them in just about every config. They play nice up to 80hz easily which should be more than high enough. 

Since the OP is planning on porting them through the cabin, they could use a huge box or even IB. That also opens up the door to the IB and SBP15s which will play past 4khz and could easily be used as a dedicated midbass driver if someone wanted to. 

I didn't see if the OP wants to go sealed or ported. If sealed, the W7 should walk all over the JBL in output and it's going to be hard to beat in sound quality in a large enclosure. I think either sub would do well but if we're talking sealed and not playing higher than 80hz it would be hard to beat the W7.


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## qwertydude

I've heard both, obviously the W7 would sound better in a larger box but so does the WGTi. And as for punch you really don't get a punchy sound at 80 hz, in fact most subs crossed over at 80 hz lack the majority of punch. It's when you have output up to about 120 hz that you really get to experience the texture of the bass frequencies.

The WGTi will play flat from 25 to 1000 hz when put in a ported box. The W7 doesn't even come close to that kind of output bandwidth and only seems like it's a louder sub because it's peakier in the lower frequencies. The JBL will play absolutely flat. And it's also more efficient.

If you like those IB 15's the WGTi will sound similar in a larger enclosure but with 25mm of excursion and a 3" dual gap coil will definitely outpower them.


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## dareo

I just wanted to suggest considering the jbl w15gti also. It will have top notch SQ, and in a big ported blow through setup, it better be very loud. Or else something is seriously wrong. If you don't like them i'd be happy to buy them off you and add them to my stash.


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## BuickGN

qwertydude said:


> I've heard both, obviously the W7 would sound better in a larger box but so does the WGTi. And as for punch you really don't get a punchy sound at 80 hz, in fact most subs crossed over at 80 hz lack the majority of punch. It's when you have output up to about 120 hz that you really get to experience the texture of the bass frequencies.
> 
> The WGTi will play flat from 25 to 1000 hz when put in a ported box. The W7 doesn't even come close to that kind of output bandwidth and only seems like it's a louder sub because it's peakier in the lower frequencies. The JBL will play absolutely flat. And it's also more efficient.
> 
> If you like those IB 15's the WGTi will sound similar in a larger enclosure but with 25mm of excursion and a 3" dual gap coil will definitely outpower them.


The GTi shouldn't have any more output than the IB15 in a sealed or IB setup. The IB15 is a little more efficient with similar xmax and more cone area. The power handling really doesn't matter when it will hit xmax with under 300w. They also have lower inductance and will play higher if needed. 

The GTi won't come close to the output of a 13W7 in a sealed or IB setup, it just doesn't have the displacement assuming we're talking subwoofer frequencies. 

The W7 is pretty flat in a large enclosure. It's the too small factory recommended enclosures that make it peaky. The JBL will also be peaky in the wrong enclosure. 

63-80hz has a lot of punch. I have my IB15s cut off at 70hz and without them I lose a lot of punch even with the 100-125hz cranked up on the midbasses. I've never tried to take the W7 much above 80hz since it's a subwoofer but I know it plays up to 80hz just fine without rolling off, I doubt the engineers had playing up to 1,000hz in mind when designing them. Personally, my 9s in the doors have no problem with 80hz and up to put it mildly.

If the OP is going sealed, I would choose the W7 easily. If going ported, the GTI sub is an option.


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## qwertydude

The problem is this is in a truck so IB probably isn't going to be in the picture. And the IB 15 would need a much bigger box to go ported than the WGTi. If vented enclosures are going to be used the WGTi certainly will have the advantage even over the W7. It will easily handle higher power than either the W7 or IB15 because of the 3" coil and dual gap design with differential drive so it won't be bottoming out even with high power.

And since ported is going to likely be the method used if you want output the ultimate excursion is even less likely to be reached. So I think the SQ advantage, versatility and efficiency of the WGTi outweighs the slight displacement disadvantage it has against the W7.

Now if the OP were to use a smaller sealed box than no doubt the W7 would be the better choice. But just simply on a price basis then I'd pick the IDMax 12 or 15 if I were going sealed. Excellent sound quality and still excellent output for significantly less money.


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## Pizipe

I keep hearing people talk about "flat" frequency response, especially into the higher 60-80 hz range... Yet there's still a debate about whether to go sealed or ported. Wouldn't a ported box by nature make the bass more "peaky" and not flat. Is there a way I can go ported and still keep the response flat?


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## dareo

Ported designs will have a frequency peak at the tuning frequency. I use one w15gti as my sole home theater sub. It's in a 12 cubic foot box tuned to 23hz. Its perfectly flat until 25hz where it is +3db. It doesn't go -3db until after 400hz. It gets loud on low power and sounds great, couldn't be happier.

Since my application is not in a car, and frequencies in the low 20s are harder to hear, i wanted that extra response in the low 20s. In car cabin gain will vary and make the ideal (SQ) tuning frequency vary.

4 points i want to make:

1. You can tune a ported alignment to anything you want to achieve.

2. wgtis are efficient, and have plenty of xmax for anyone other than extreme bass heads. They cover a wide frequency range with great SQ.

3. w15gti has 120 inches of cone area, 13w7 is only 107 inches, so i don't see a ton more output from the JL over the JBL. So if max SPL is important, i would go Sundown or something even more crazy like an 18.

4. Power. You will need a lot of it. 2 w15gti can use at least 2200 rms
2 13w7 would be 3000 rms.
2 Z15v4 would be 3500. So if you don't plan on building a huge electrical system with huge amps, the efficient JBL will stomp those other drivers in lower power ranges. You would have to run the other drivers pretty hard to see higher SPL.


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## Pizipe

You make a very compelling argument. So let's move this build to the next phase. Let's assume I've been talked into JBL's. I plan on doing 2 15's. Would using 2 Genesis Profile Sub Ultra's (1 per driver) be enough power? Also, let's assume I'm looking for accurate reproduction of a WIDE variety of music, would you go ported or sealed. I do listen to a lot of rap and techno, but also a lot of classic rock and even jazz occasionally. I wouldn't mind the extra output of a ported box, but I want to make sure it stays nice and tight when it comes kick drums and classical instruments.


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## edzyy

That nice and tight sound would be midbass really.


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## dareo

IMO the only reason to not port a GTI is if you just don't have the space. 

That looks like a very nice amp. I have no idea what the Genesis amps cost, but a pair of JBL GTO 1001 EZ would get the job done for around $200 each. You would be at 3 ohms on a GTI, so both amps would be in the 750-800 rms ballpark. That should be enough to use all the xmax in a ported box of say 6 cubic feet or so.


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## plcrides

I've had jl audio since the 90's man and i just got two sa 12's and they are by far the best subs i have ever owned.ive had all of the jl subs from 8w0 8w7,12 w3,12 w7 even the old jl 12's with dust caps.i do like jl audio amps but never again will i pay for one.ever!!! or jl subs..i have a dc audio 2.0k on the two sa 12's and to get that much power from jl do the math money wise,and i paid 500 for over 2000 watts.


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## edzyy

plcrides said:


> I've had jl audio since the 90's man and i just got two sa 12's and they are by far the best subs i have ever owned.ive had all of the jl subs from 8w0 8w7,12 w3,12 w7 even the old jl 12's with dust caps.i do like jl audio amps but never again will i pay for one.ever!!! or jl subs..i have a dc audio 2.0k on the two sa 12's and to get that much power from jl do the math money wise,and i paid 500 for over 2000 watts.


If you didn't like the w7's, your install was either bad or you don't like the sound of low distortion drivers.


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## qwertydude

Yeah the SA-12's are nice but they in no way are comparable to a W7 in terms of sound quality. Just not gonna happen.


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## cajunner

looks more like a cost complaint.


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## qwertydude

It seems if you can swing the money for a DC Audio 2K you could afford a nicer subwoofer. But maybe plcrides fell into the two subwoofers trap. Always wanting two subs even at the expense of getting a nicer single subwoofer and running it in a larger box which tends to outperform two cheaper subs in terms of sound quality and reduced overall subwoofer size.


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## UNFORGIVEN

you're never going to get a straight answer mainly because no one here has run the X-series/z4 and JL w7's to compare

Both are amazing subwoofers according to the reviews/specs/etc. so pick one company and give it a go!


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## Pizipe

I've actually run a single JBL 15 GTI in the past and had forgotten how much I liked it. I think I've been talked into the JBL's for a variety of reasons. Can anybody recommend some specs for a ported box for 2 JBL's. I'll be mounting in the bed of the truck and cutting through to the cabin so space shouldn't be much of an issue.


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## captainscarlett

Personally I'm still eying up Audio Elegance and Stereo integrity, over anything from JL. Can't remember the relationship between Stereo Integrity - Sundown Audio - Obsidian Audio, but there is a relationship somewhere!

AE Speakers Online Store







As for Stereo Integrity they seem to only have the 12" shallowmount, 15" speaker, and this lovely thing (Youtube Below)

Stereo Integrity | Order Online


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## Blu

Pizipe said:


> I've actually run a single JBL 15 GTI in the past and had forgotten how much I liked it. I think I've been talked into the JBL's for a variety of reasons. Can anybody recommend some specs for a ported box for 2 JBL's. I'll be mounting in the bed of the truck and cutting through to the cabin so space shouldn't be much of an issue.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/102176-2003-s-10-pro-audio-blowthrough.html

May want to chat w mikey7182


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## Boomintahoe

I'd go with Sundown Audio...esp when the yardsales are around, you can score yourself a nice deal. Since no one mentioned that, happens every so often. SA is more than just a SPL sub....they have many subs to choose from all depends on how you use it. Coming from a past JL user, I would say JL is just overhype...regardless of w7 or not, it gets old hearing about them, and quick. I've had 15w3's when they first cam out.....very nice subs. Didn't have those long. Go over to CACO and there's one or two members that will tell you the difference between the W7 and Sundown X series.


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## dareo

JBL says 4.0 cubes tuned at 28 hz, 6" port. I say go a bit bigger, like 6 cubes per sub, and tune a bit lower. 6 cubes and 24 hz looks pretty in winisd simulations. The big unknown is how much cabin gain will play into your install. 

If you can only fit 5 cubic feet per sub, id tune 25-26 hz.

JBL's SPL box is 6.5 cubic feet tuned to 55hz, but that is just a burp box for 60hz SPL. 

Plan on being able to change the port length easily. Build it, test it, possibly modify the port length a few times till its exactly the response you want.

Speaking of building, are you going plywood, mdf, steel, aluminum, or concrete? Will you have bed cover, or does it need to be waterproof? I know someone in ut county that could cast some light weight concrete for you. PM me if you are interested in steel or concrete.


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## chithead

Curious if anyone's heard those Sundown X-series yet. I had a pair of SA-8 v1.5 before, and it was honestly a tough call between those, and the 12W7. Enjoyed both thoroughly, and am looking for the best choice in a new install. Pair of those X-series looks pretty promising.


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