# Simple $1500 system install in 1996 Silverado



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well I figured since all the kewl kids are doing it I will show off my cheap system. I am a basic installer with no real wood or fiberglass skills so I went with an off the shelf box.
I have $1500 total in this system including wires, breakers, sound mat and the new illusions..... well $1700 but the Bostons are already sold for $200 so..... meh.

Install is as follows:
Pioneer DEH-P8400BH source unit with the USB port in the spare opening where the CD player used to be.
Front speakers are Illusion Audio Carbon C6
Subs are Dyaton Audio HO 12"
Sub amp is a JL Audio 500/1
Main amp is a JL Audio 450/4 Only signal processor is an Audio Control ESP-2


For wires I am using 4awg MESA power throughout and Rockford circuit and distribution as well as Rockford twisted RCA wires and Rockford 12 & 14 awg speaker wires.

This will start with where I am now. Currently I have Boston Acoustic Pro60s in the doors but will be swapped out for the Illusions tomorrow. That is when I will install the sound deadener, MDF rings and the foam surrounds to seal the mids to the door panel. I will be sure to take pictures of that.



So to start with here is the deck. I installed the USB port in a simple and easy to access manner. Fortunately the truck has many blank panels so the JL bass knob went down low and the ESP2 knob right above it. Above the cargo light switch is the mic for my Bluetooth. If wondering why the ESP2 knob did not go next to the JL knob it is because its a PITA to access when the truck is in gear.




The amps were simply mounted to the rear wall. I took great care to make sure power and signal wires never come close to each other with all signal on the passenger side and all power on the driver side. The ESP even has its own dedicated 8 awg wire since it used to power the 450/4 but I just changed that out this morning. Great success as the amp no longer shuts down when being pushed. 




And now for the box:






Did lose a little leg room but I don't ride back there so not my problem. LOL







I look forward to tomorrows upgrades. As much as I like my Bostons I believe the Illusions will really kick it up a notch.


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## mrmill (Feb 11, 2013)

simple and clean install. definitely $1500 spent in the right places


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

nice job. Wiring looks neat and tidy. The enclosure looks pretty solid too. My only suggestion is to find some color matching carpet. The dark color makes it stand out too much IMO.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

The plan is to cover it in OEM carpeting when I decide to order some 4x6 plates and have to pull it all out again. LOL

Thanks for the compliments guys.


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## rmchevelle (Jul 22, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> The ESP even has its own dedicated 8 awg wire since it used to power the 450/4 but I just changed that out this morning. Great success as the amp no longer shuts down when being pushed.


Confused. What was causing the amp to shut down?



LaserSVT said:


> I look forward to tomorrows upgrades. As much as I like my Bostons I believe the Illusions will really kick it up a notch.


Look forward to hear how this shakes out. (Me subscribed.)


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Nice job. I am wondering how you like the Dayton subs.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Previous setup had two small MB Quart amps both with dedicated off brand 8awg wire. Really it was almost 10 awg but not quite. When I did the amp upgrade I ran new MESA OFC true 4 awg 1800 (I think) strand wire to the sub amp but not the 450/4. Well with the truck off I couldn't really jam the system as the 450 would get under 10 volts and shut off for a second. I verified the voltage drop with a peak hold DVM. With the truck running and having a couple extra volts I could turn it up one or two notches more but it would still shutdown due to the thin wire and 17' run being too thin.
Now I used the same MESA 4 awg wire and a breaker instead of the fuse holder and now I can go as loud as I feel the Bostons can handle and it never shuts down. I see up to .8v loss now but that's it.

Since the 8awg was already ran and a couple relays for lights use it I figured I would leave it in and have a dedicated 8awg just for the ESP2 lol. Bit overkill but was easier than pulling the wire out.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

RandyJ75 said:


> Nice job. I am wondering how you like the Dayton subs.


I like them a lot. I had an MB Quart 10" shallow in there..... that didn't stay long. I then upgraded to an Infinity Kappa 12" and it was ok but then upgraded to a Polk MM 12" and liked it. My buddy asked if I would mind breaking in his Boston SPG555 in my truck so I said sure. I fell in love with it and had to have one. Only problem is I would lose some of my rear seat and I didn't want that. So after some suggestions on here I went with the Daytons and man am I impressed. They easily have more otput with the same amp than the Boston does plus they have much more impact and are a bit more musical all while TWO of them being cheaper than one SPG555.

So in a nut shell they are almost the best sub I ever owned. I even like them more than my old 13W7 which was WAY louder but nearly as musical. My favorite sub was my Beta 15"s but you just cant get them any more. That and I couldn't fit them in my truck anyway.


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## rmchevelle (Jul 22, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> Previous setup had two small MB Quart amps both with dedicated off brand 8awg wire. Really it was almost 10 awg but not quite. When I did the amp upgrade I ran new MESA OFC true 4 awg 1800 (I think) strand wire to the sub amp but not the 450/4. Well with the truck off I couldn't really jam the system as the 450 would get under 10 volts and shut off for a second. I verified the voltage drop with a peak hold DVM. With the truck running and having a couple extra volts I could turn it up one or two notches more but it would still shutdown due to the thin wire and 17' run being too thin.
> Now I used the same MESA 4 awg wire and a breaker instead of the fuse holder and now I can go as loud as I feel the Bostons can handle and it never shuts down. I see up to .8v loss now but that's it.
> 
> Since the 8awg was already ran and a couple relays for lights use it I figured I would leave it in and have a dedicated 8awg just for the ESP2 lol. Bit overkill but was easier than pulling the wire out.


Thanks for the explanation.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Dangit, got home and the Illusions hadn't showed yet and they changed the delivery date (for the 3rd time) to tomorrow. Oh well.

At least I found my issue that was causing me some concern with my Bostons today. Now that the amp plays a LOT louder I cranked it up and was able to pinpoint the vibration right before the passenger tweeter let the magic smoke out. At least I had a spare and threw it in. Cant believe how much better the whole system perked up as the other tweeter was dying so it was a good 3-6 db down from the driver tweeter.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm looking forward to your impressions once the system is "completed" and the Illusions are in.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Me too! I guess its good they didn't show because I would be in my garage right now installing them. My secret sauce sound deadening mat showed up and my friend swore 10 square feet would be enough for both doors but I need another 6 or so square feet.

So I figured screw it, may as well get 12 more square feet and do the inner (outer body) door skin as well and just realy silent it up. Make their enclosure as dead as I can....... maybe I should do the door panels too.

Hmm, this simple door speaker upgrade has already cost me $100+ to make them a nice home. LOL

Crap, that reminds me. I forgot truck liner and I need to spray my MDF rings.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm like Santa, meaning I make my list and I check it twice lol. It's the only way to be sure that once you start, you don't have to quit because you've under ordered material. Plus you want to give those Illusions a fighting chance to let your truck know that there's a new sheriff in town.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well hell, my speakers still have not shown up and since I discovered 10 square feet of sound deadening material is not enough for two doors I just ordered an extra 25 square feet. I am gonna deaden the crap out of my doors. LOL


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

What, what's the deal with UPS in your part of town sir ???


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> What, what's the deal with UPS in your part of town sir ???


Well its USPS. Normally they are very fast. I ordered some rings and deadener and a few other things on Friday and they showed up yesterday so not sure whats up. I know the mail man and hes on the lookout and even stopped back in the office today on his lunch break to see if it showed but it aint there. Tracing is of no use like most times when you insure a package. If you send it regular way you know every time that package moves but for the premium services..... meh, not so much. It says its still in NJ and has been since Saturday but I imagine its in state already, probably Dallas and getting sorted. If it shows up tonight he will deliver it tomorrow.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Not that I am trying to be mean, but USPS and I have a love/hate relationship. Meaning they love to hate me. I cringe whenever anyone tells me that they've shipped me something via them. I would rather pay the extra for Fedex/UPS. The one time they derived a radio to me in TWO packages and tried to tell me it was shipped as such. Wth, who do you think splits a radio in two to ship ??????


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So I was just going through my old pics and found this trucks first system. Spent under $350 including the alarm and all new. The deck was borrowed.... for about a year lol and the ESP2 isn't part of that $350 setup. It was added latter and I paid too much for it.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well my laziness and excitedness are at war with each other. The Illusions are here and I can install them but the rest of the sound deadening isn't here yet so I would just have to pull the doors apart again and redo it all. I am going to try and be patient and wait for the rest of the mat to get here but.......... WANT TO INSTALL NOW!!!!

So I was so excited to see them show up today and ran inside to open them. They are just such a nice quality set of speakers... I have been staring at the tweeters for some time now. They would really hurt if you threw them at someone. LOL. This is the first time I have ever bought component speakers that do not have one bit of literature with them. Doing some digging I guess its because they figure you know what you have, why you bought it and so you must know or know someone that knows how to install them. 
Anyway, the aluminum basket is very nice and the magnet is impressively heavy for a neo. Really like the nice components inside the crossovers too. Just all around an impressive looking and built speaker. I cant wait to try them out but I think it wont be until Tuesday before the rest of the mat shows up.


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## xXTX_ChallengerXx (Oct 8, 2012)

^^^purdy!!!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Nice

They found a good home


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So here is my take on Illusion Audio. Wow. Just freakin wow. I have never heard a tweeter like that in my life. Its so powerful, so clear, so accurate and best of all its not harsh while still being very bright. The woofers, well I imagine they need some break in. They sound really close to my Boston mids but seem to have a bit more impact below 100hz. They sound excellent but just not as impressive as the tweeter is. Again, they are stiff so I imagine a bit of break in and they will warm up a bit.
Easily the best components I ever had even surpassing my old Infinity Beta mids with Kappa 2" EMIT ribbons. 
The output is impressive but they are power hogs. I had to attenuate the subwoofers 4db to match them where as I had the subs at 0 with the Bostons. Not a complaint as I am nowhere near maxing my amp and my ears currently hurt.

So on to the install. I couldn't wait so I just deadened the inside of the doors and apx 30% of the inner section just primarily covering holes and isolating the driver. Yes I am using two kinds of wire, the twisted was what I had originally ran through the truck and the store was out so I used standard 14 awg Rockford wire to feed from the crossover to the mids. Used the EFX wires on the tweeters that they came with and installed them in the factory location with some mat on the back but forgot to take a pic.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Are you talking about the stiffness of the speaker here or your stiffy?  Good work.

Carbons are going to be my next buy... or Ground Zero. I liked those m'fers, too!

I wish the seats were as comfy in the new GM trucks as they used to be, like in your truck. I loved those in cloth (the leather was **** but that's the way it is).


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

sirbOOm said:


> Are you talking about the stiffness of the speaker here or your stiffy?


Yes.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

glad youre diggin them. that tweeter is something special


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

tyroneshoes said:


> glad youre diggin them. that tweeter is something special


Yeah it is but is it attainable?

Here is my kind of luck. Shop got busy so I had to pause before I had the passenger door back together. Finished up rewiring a fuse box in a Benz that pulled in on fire and then went back to he truck to finish it up and do some tuning. Was the first time I listened to the complete pair with the doors closed and was a little bothered that the sound stage was way too far right with the "The Planets" performed by the London Symphony Orchestra. I switched tracks to "A Major Technicality" by Clair Marlo (Sheffield Labs) and it was even worse. So I went into the deck, made sure everything was centered, flattened the EQ, turned off the ESP, pulled apart the doors again to make sure the wiring was okay, tried reversing the tweeter polarity and that's when I noticed the drivers tweeter was just nowhere near as loud as the passenger side. 
I know volume numbers are different for every deck/amp/speaker combo but in my truck (with the more efficient Bostons) 10 is for background sound, 20 to just listen to music and drown out road noise, 28 to really enjoy a song and 34 is for that song you love to crank. One time I went to 38 but that way too loud.... think the deck goes to 50? So I raised the volume from 18 to 26 and then almost all the tweeters sound on the driver side stopped. Been in audio enough to know that problem. Pulled the tweeter and using my Matco DVM I see the tweeter is .5 ohms.  Coil is almost a dead short. I could cry. 
I tried to call Illusion but they are closed already. Being they are used I am sure there is no warranty. Even if there was I am sure they would say I blew it. Of course that is a possibility but being I never turned them up, knowing the wire setup is perfect, knowing the amp was not clipping and my initial EQ settings had 3.15K @ +2db and 8k @ +1db with the ESP at a quarter (and its "treble" setting is two clicks past flat) and the amp gain at apx the 1/3 mark being driven by a deck with a 4v pre-out I don't see how I could have.
I don't know what to do at this point since you can not buy the tweeters by themselves. I used one of my Bostons for now but even with the -3db attenuation the Boston tweeter is just way too efficient and is overpowering.
This really has ruined my whole weekend, had a road trip setup just to go jam on the highway.


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## WTF1978 (Apr 12, 2012)

Did you mount the tweeters in the stock location? I have a 1996 sierra regular cab. I am currently running a pioneer deh-p880prs head unit. I just installed my Audison lrx 5.1k. I have a Image dynamics IDQ 12 wedged between the seat and the dash on the transmission hump. Speakers are some garbage polk audio coax. I have 2 sets of components I could install just not sure how it will sound with the tweeters in the stock location.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Stock location for me has always worked great after I added the ESP2. Before that the sound stage was clearly defined at the edges of the doors and about belly button height. With the ESP now my stage is at eye height and sounds twice as wide as the truck is.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I don't know if this will be of any help yo you, but I have a set of Focal tweeters no crossovers that I could send to you. I believe that they are the TNK ones like this.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> I don't know if this will be of any help yo you, but I have a set of Focal tweeters no crossovers that I could send to you. I believe that they are the TNK ones like this.


Thanks but I am tapped out now. I just hope I can do something about this on Monday. Tyrone said they have warranty so I will see what I can get done. I hope they will cover it but being as I am what, the 3rd owner, who knows. If not I hope they will sell me one.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm sorry I should have clarified, pm me your address and I will ship these to you for free. Call it me being me....


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

*mind blown*


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Anyone know the crossover point of the Focals? Heck, I don't even know the crossover point of my illusions but I think its like 2k.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Will ship these to you come Monday sir.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Thank you sir. You are a scholar and a gentleman.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Just trying to help where I can, and how I can.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Thats horrible man.

I am sorry dude that is seriously bad luck. I did test it prior and kinda surprised by this all. 

I will send you a set of tbi hdss tweets to use while you wait for an illusion replacement. They will work well with the illusions passive.

That is super generous of coppertone as hes not even involved


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I know right? Just got off the phone with him and hes just one cool cat. I appreciate the TBI offer but I don't want to take the risk of something happening to them before sending them back to you. I am in the process of acquiring all the info on the Illusions so that maybe I can get Illusion to do something about it.
My friend is sitting here and finnaly asked me "Why are you sniffing that tweeter so much?" LOL I told him I am trying to smell burned ferrofluid (sp?) or burned coil and I just cant smell any. I figure it has to be a defective coil. It will play, just really softly and the coil is ALMOST a dead short but not quite.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

You could just have them as I said. Dont worry about sending them back. Its optional. They will work with the illusions 2k @12db passive crossover so at least youll have a new set of components if there is a wait on obtaining another carbon.

Let me know


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Gawd I love this place. I sent you a PM about it so its probably best to discuss it there and if you are sending the TBIs I will let Coppertone know to hold off on the Focals. Everyone is being so helpful and I do not want to take advantage.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Sorry to hear that you're having issues with the tweeter. Hopefully ORCA can work something out with you.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

If they are 1/4 as helpful as the wonderful people on here then I am sure it will be all good.


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## rmchevelle (Jul 22, 2008)

Bummed for you by the failed tweeter but inspired at the same time because of the helpful people involved. :thumbsup: Looking forward to a good end result and review.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well this is fun. Orca said they cant do anything, has to be a dealer. Simplicity does not want to be involved and I cant fault them for that, they didn't sell them and it aint their fault. Apparently there are those who are aware of the speakers and claim bad juju on my set. 
I also guess the warranty guy has seen this thread and also wants no part of it so...... guess I am just screwed. I have contacted the original dealer in hopes something can be worked out but I am not holding my breath. 
I am trying to see if I can buy the tweeters themselves but bet f somehow I can they will be freakin expensive.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

sucks. well you will obviously be able to buy a replacement tweet from a dealer if they dont cover it. I dont know the cost. I do know that youll have TBI tweets on wednesday at least 

I would make a *wanted: 1 illusion carbon tweeter* post in the classifieds. ive been lucky with that recently


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I am working a couple angles now. I just have to wait what the original dealer says or what a different authorized dealer can do as far as selling or warranty these ones. May work out, I am sure one way or another I will get it handled. Several on here including yourself are really doing a lot to help me get this handled. Fingers crossed.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

It will work out


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Im just gonna pull it all out and throw in some whizzer cones with an 8 trac


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I gotta say between tyrone and Coppertone and two others that shall remain nameless until they tell me otherwise I have really been plussed by the help I have been getting. Real car audio guys feel other audio guys pain when that one toy they really wanted, that toy they saved for just does not work as it should and they are all helping me to make my toy work. For those of you (you know who you are) helping out, Thank you. A real heart felt thank you.


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

Those TBI tweets are pretty bad @ss!!! very nice tweets, ESPECIALLY for free. I think you will be very happy with them. I had a set for a while and was very reluctant to part with them.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah I am surprised at what both Coppertone and Tyrone did, speechless really. Those are two very stand up guys that deserve a round of applesauce.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Awww, no need to thank me as I'm trying to help a person in need out. I know that it will all work out and there won't be a need for that Duran Duran 8 track lol...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo..........

http://youtu.be/-J_3GvsYkUw


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok now that tight there was just scary lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So I figured while I was awaiting some response on my tweeters that I would go ahead and get rid of the rest of the resonation in the truck and did the sides of the king cab section and all the panels and storage buckets. I am quite surprised at how much better it sounds. Didn't realize how much low frequency cancelation I was getting due to the panels vibrating.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Since I had more mat I went ahead and did a 150% covering on the doors in and out which is nice because the truck really got quiet. 
Anywho, the TBI tweeters showed up yesterday so I installed them for now. Very nice sounding tweeter. I had to do the max attenuation on the crossovers and cut a little EQ but the are very smooth. They are not brilliant and WOW! like the Illusions but they have to be one of the best soft dome tweeters I have heard. Very impressive.

I just picked up a customer and a song came on Pandora she really liked, Latch by Disclosure, so I turned it up and her face went into total shock and then she started dancing in the seat. When the bass line came in around the one minute mark she shouted "My butts vibrating!" Well I think she said that, I couldn't hear her. LOL

Thanks tyroneshoes!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

no prob. Glad you got it to work. Nice "in the mean time tweet". Clean.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Just a nice tweeter period. Now I am torn between them or the Focals for the rear fill. Focals should be here today and I am going to test them in the shop car since its crossover is at 3.5k already and they will fit perfectly in the mounts I made. Hell, they may just replace the Kappas in the shop car. LOL


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So I was sitting in my driveway playing with the new setup and sampling songs from many different bands and styles. Rush, The Who, Talking Heads, Lady Gaga (she does have a great voice), Clair Marlo, Korn, Disturbed etc etc. I was sitting back after finding the audio systems sweet spot and just really enjoying the sound. I notice a cop car creeping up the road with both spot lights on and aiming them at every Chevy truck on my road. I didn't think much about it and then noticed its 10:00 and that the number I had my volume at will shake my entire shop, not realizing just how much I had turned it up in that hour, and thought "Uh-oh. Wonder who I am ticking off?" LOL

Got out of the truck right as they were passing me and they stopped and stared hard at my truck. I just smiled and waived then went inside. 

I really try to be conscious of my neighbors as its a nice quiet neighborhood but I just got lost in the music. That's what a stereo should do to you I guess. LOLZ.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

i do the same. my neighbors must think im nuts.

just sittin in the driveway listening

how are the illusion's midbass? Bing seems to love them.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

At first I thought they were pretty much identical to the Bostons as far as sound and output but I guess they really were newish because they get better and better. Also tweeking the EQ helps but I need a better EQ. The 8400 is just so limited. But they really sound nice with kick drums and are very natural on vocals and string instruments. I like them more and more with every session.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Haven't had a cop tell me to turn it down since I discovered sound and vibration dampening.  Oh, and the payoffs...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

You get past 2' outside my truck and you cant hear much of anything but at 10' you just feel structure walls and ceilings vibrate to the beat.

Hell, they may have not even been called for a noise complaint and may have been looking for someone and I just over reacted. Who knows. Just thought it was interesting at the time.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Maybe you should stop driving women around who mention their butt is vibrating. 

Drove a girl around on my Harley once who had the same problem.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I love tracking numbers. The replacement shows up on Friday, be a nice belated birthday present. Works out well because my new door panel clips show up Thursday. Dang GM clips are only good for a few times before they become useless.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

sirbOOm said:


> Maybe you should stop driving women around who mention their butt is vibrating.
> 
> Drove a girl around on my Harley once who had the same problem.


And you ended up married, didn't you? lol

Jay


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yay! Illusion tweeters are back in. The TBIs were nice but the Illusion is just so unbelievably detailed. Love it. Now I need more processing. LOL


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Congrats!


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

My neighbor came over after about two hours to ask what I was doing because he left and came back a couple times and just saw my truck sitting there running with me inside. He laughed when I just said I was listening to music and invited him in as I know he likes The Who and put on "Reign O'er Me" and he asked me to play it again. LOL
I am so glad I listened to people on here and gave them a try. The mids are good but those tweeters are something else.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Man that song makes me weep like a little bich... especially the Pearl Jam version.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Hell yes. Finally success. Yes those are up there top 3 car tweeters Ive used.

doesnt the prs have auto eq and ta? I use that as a jump off start then tune and change prossover points/slopes. Its does a pretty good job when I had the 880prs.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

It does but I put up my sig pic a tad early. Thought I would have the 80PRS by now but stuff came up so it wont be ordered until this week. So I am stuck with the very limited EQ in my 8400BH. I know with the 80PRS I will really get the tweeters dialed in how I want.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well I really cant sing! LMAO Guy drove 100 miles to buy my Boston Pros and I told him I ordered a new deck and would be selling mine when it showed up. He really wanted it and since he drove so far I went ahead and pulled it. I really hope Amazon don't use FedEx on this or else its gonna take forever! UPS ground to me takes 2 days from anywhere in America. Nice thing having the hub 2 miles away. LOL

For now I get to stare at this:


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## rmchevelle (Jul 22, 2008)

LOL, glad you got the stuff sold. Tough to not have any tunes!

How'd you find a buyer? DIYMA classifieds?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Craigslist


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Lol that's where I've posted my gear as it seems the Diyma people are slow to buy lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well at least the hole in my dash is filled now. LOL
Love the new deck! So much quieter than the old one and its DSP is great. One more minor change and I will be done. Untill I decide I am not done again. LOL


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I really like my DEH-80PRS and Illusion C6 combo as well.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

you make me want my 80prs and my Silverado back.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

REGULARCAB said:


> you make me want my 80prs and my Silverado back.


Were you able to use the flush mount kit? I really don't like this buldged out mount but the deck with the USB plugs is just so dang deep.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Maybe something like this might help? 
90 degree USB Adapter


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

rton20s said:


> Maybe something like this might help?
> 90 degree USB Adapter


Not sure if they would or not. I was hoping regularcab might have responded. No big deal as it only takes a few moments to remove the trim bezel for the dash and I can poke my head in there to see if I have any clearance. I know I had to do some various wire shuffling just to get it into lock position without it feeling like it was pushing against a wire.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

LaserSVT said:


> Were you able to use the flush mount kit? I really don't like this buldged out mount but the deck with the USB plugs is just so dang deep.


Sorry i didn't get back to you. I had a 2004 silverado. Totally different unfortunately.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes, I gathered that from the PM earlier.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Got the FAST rings in yesterday so while I had a few spare moments I went ahead and installed them. Yes, they do make a difference. I had to retune everything from 125-2kHZ. LOL


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

how does some foam do anything?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Might just order myself a set if those F.A.S.T. Rings for when I get back into my doors to do the MLV.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

lithium said:


> how does some foam do anything?


Well the center section helps to absorb standing waves from behind the cone (not sure it really does anything). The second ring seals the driver to the spacer. Well we all know why that's important. The third ring seals the driver to the door card and guides the sound through the factory grill. If you have a gap of, oh say 1" then in some cases (like mine) you get sound waves that reflect off the door card and door skin and can cancel or mute frequencies you wish to hear. I had to attenuate a tad around 125-500hz after the rings so I know where I was getting my cancelation.


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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

Where did you order them from?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

jamesjones said:


> Where did you order them from?


Sound Connection 6 ½


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> Well the center section helps to absorb standing waves from behind the cone (not sure it really does anything). The second ring seals the driver to the spacer. Well we all know why that's important. The third ring seals the driver to the door card and guides the sound through the factory grill. If you have a gap of, oh say 1" then in some cases (like mine) you get sound waves that reflect off the door card and door skin and can cancel or mute frequencies you wish to hear. I had to attenuate a tad around 125-500hz after the rings so I know where I was getting my cancelation.


but its foam. its not nearly thick enough to absorb sound and not dense enough to block it.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

lithium said:


> but its foam. its not nearly thick enough to absorb sound and not dense enough to block it.


So don't buy it. It made a difference in my setup. I am not its retailer and not trying to sell it. I bought it, it worked. Don't know what else to tell you. Save your $25 for pop rocks or beer.


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## GV713 (Dec 3, 2013)

LaserSVT said:


> So don't buy it. It made a difference in my setup. I am not its retailer and not trying to sell it. I bought it, it worked. Don't know what else to tell you. Save your $25 for pop rocks or beer.


lolol not stalking but that was funny. Thought there might have been an update on the ML's


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

rton20s said:


> I really like my DEH-80PRS and Illusion C6 combo as well.


Love my 80PRS. Hate the C6 speakers. They have been nothing but a non stop headache since day one. Full review to come soon on the Illusions and issues.


For now they have been yanked in favor of something much nicer.... and cleaner.... and louder. I now have the Hertz ML1600 for midbass installed and have a set of PHD AF1.C tweeters on the way. Currently running the TBI HDSS tweeters as I await the the PHDs.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I've been tracking along. Sorry to hear the Illusions did not work out for you. Hopefully you can get everything corrected and find a buyer. I'm still pretty satisfied with mine.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Being as I am the third owner Orca does not want to touch them. Meh, they didn't do what I had hoped they would do and they are fragile. If I didn't have the exact same problems that others on here have had with them I would be more inclined to think I somehow messed something up. On the other hand I am very careful when I install and wire, I learned expensive mistakes 20+ years ago and do not repeat them. LOL
I am just going to get rid of the tweeters and use the mids as paperweights.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

sucks man.

Hertz makes a great woofer and those PHD tweets look great. Nice combo and I hope you try active. Im glad the TBI are useful for you once again. They have a very clean low end. So hopefully things will work out for you with the phds. I bet the current setup sounds smooth. Id boost about 12k a bit


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## casey (Dec 4, 2006)

good looking stuff, I saw you post in the illusion c6 thread. Interested to see what you think of those tweeters, haven seen any true unbiased reviews yet


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

casey said:


> good looking stuff, I saw you post in the illusion c6 thread. Interested to see what you think of those tweeters, haven seen any true unbiased reviews yet


Thanks! I very much look forward to reviewing them. Should have them in by the weekend. *fingers crossed*
As for now I am running the TBIs tyroneshoes sent me with the Hertz ML1600s and and thrilled. Again the TBIs are still tame but they can run fairly louder than the Illusions could, the real joy is in the new mids. Now that's the kick I was looking for! They are just as clear and a bit more..... I don't know..... less hollow? That's not the right word. Richer, they sound richer than the Illusions but have way more impact. Crossed over at 63hz is perfect for them. I am even still using the Illusion crossover. LOL


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I have been running the PHDs for a couple days now and I have to say, they ain't half bad. Finally a tweeter that can reproduce the subtle background sounds without having to over EQ them. I have a 1db boost at 8K and 2 db at 12k but that's it. I am very much enjoying them so far. They have all the Illusions detail only with some umph behind them. They pair very well with the Hertz mids.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

are you content with the tweeters considering the price?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

The PHDs and the Hertz together were only $100 more than my Illusions and they actually play music all the time so yeah, they were worth it.


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## casey (Dec 4, 2006)

lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I tell you guys, these PHD tweeters are very impressive. They seem to get better and better as they break in. My EQ is nearly flat now and the ESP-2 is down really low yet the tweeters still sparkle. They are clean and detailed but not annoying or harsh. One of my favorite tweeters to date.


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## casey (Dec 4, 2006)

good to hear they are getting better


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Youre making me want to try these tweets or even a phd comp set. Theyre so attractive and would be on display in my truck right on axis. I thought the same thing about silks. The ESB tweets and oz cotton are the only soft domes I have liked in a car. I mean Morel sound good but kinda boring, these sound like theyre more lively which I like. I also have a ting for tweets in aluminum casing. 

How shallow are these when you remove that huge base and flush mount?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Youre making me want to try these tweets or even a phd comp set. Theyre so attractive and would be on display in my truck right on axis. I used to think the same thing about silks. The ESB tweets and oz cotton are the only soft domes I have liked in a car. I mean Morel sound good but kinda boring, these sound like theyre more lively which I like. I also have a thing for tweets in aluminum casing. The Italians make beautiful tweeters.

How shallow are these when you remove that huge base and flush mount?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

They are a good 3/4" or so deep. I left the data sheet at the shop.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Here is a little video I shot with my camera phone. Wish I had a good camera but it at least gives an idea of these things sound profile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQx9jLALr4&feature=youtu.be



Also the truck is about to go through yet another driver change.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok you're being banned from changing drivers lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

LMAO! I have audio ADD. Besides the only Youtube comment I got was that the guys farts sound better and that my equipment is sub par as well as the installation.
So time to rip it all out and start over.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Oh heck no, who listens to YouTube comments anyway. I didn't really get a chance to listen to the whole thing as my daughter decided to dry her hair at that exact moment lol. If you like it, own it.


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## krisfnbz (Apr 30, 2008)

I somehow thought you were joking about the comments until I read them. What a bunch of idiots. Your equipment is ridiculously nice.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I need a quality camera like whats his name that had the Audisons and then switched to Morel. That song sounded so great with his setup and in his video. Wonder what camera he used because it had great audio recording.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Interested in Boston spz 6.5"s?

If you liked the pros...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Maybe. Depends on price, condition, series and age. I love the SPZs but have nothing to throw them in at the moment but that just gives me a reason to buy another car.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Great then buy my Subaru which will be going up for sale lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> Great then buy my Subaru which will be going up for sale lol.


Just leave the stereo in it.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

But of course, that what's adding to what I am selling it for.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Good shape. They were going to go in my car but I cant really validate taking out my ESB drivers. Im fully content. I just got all the tweeter hardware too since I bought these when they were set up coaxially. Massive passives and I run passive so these were top of my list. Only thing missing is cosmetic phase plug cover. 3 ohms, low 30s fs and 10mm xmax. Build quality the opposite of illusion. Rugged. Still shallow neo magnets. Costs less than illusions. SPZ 60s


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> But of course, that what's adding to what I am selling it for.


So how about tree fiddy?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Lol my shift knob cost more then that lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

It better be made from Waterford.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Custom made...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

From unicorn antler?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

It's a Jersey thang lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Snookie afterbirth?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok I just threw up a little in my mouth lol.....


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)




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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Word of advice, make sure that you are around to sign for that Stereo Integrity sub my friend.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

They say it will be here Saturday so I will be home. If that date changes I will just pick it up at the depot.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I didn't even get a ship date with mine, I came home from my office and there was a FedEx missed pkg ticket on my door. Never said who it was from or what it was lol. When they came around the next day, out comes the FedEx guy carrying a big brown box.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well FedEx lied. This is why I hate FedEx. LOL They updated delivery to Tuesday so I am just having them dropped off at the depot and will grab them at lunch and get some poly fill.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So updates. Today I pulled my Daytons and installed a single SI BM MKIV after shrinking the box to .5 cubic feet and adding 1/3lb of polly. 







First things I notice are that the SI plays lower frequencies better. It also appears much more musical. I need much time to test this sub out and tweek it. It plays "Bass I Love You" with authority and shakes the seats where the TWO Dayton subs could not. Drums.... they are nice.

Anyway, will thoroughly test them and do a review in a week or so.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So updates on the system. I am now running the front stage full active but doing it with the amps crossovers since I like my ESP2. The JL has an excellent crossover and I can still use some of the PRS time alignment features. EQ is nearly flat with only a small bump at 315hz and a 2db bump at 8k on top of whatever the auto EQ is doing.
I hope to get my hands on a real RTA and do some tuning but they system is able to play all styles of music without changing anything other than the JL bass knob that I have set at 48 hz. Some older 80's and 70's songs I give a little bump there to liven them up.
The ESP2 is on a very low setting but it adds a good foot to the sound stage so its staying.

The PHD tweeters as they have fully broken in are truly outstanding! They are capeable of more output than I thought they would or could ever do. The Hertz mids still blow me away and everyone loves drum tracks in my truck.

The sub is the real star though. That SI BMIV really has unbelievable bass reproduction. It plays 7 hz with authority yet it is so accurate and clean I am floored every time I try and make it sound bad. It just refuses to act bad. Its a pure joy. That is why I ordered a second one to slap in next week.
I will only be sending 300 watts to each sub but the one is attenuated by 9db right now so I don't think that's an issue. LOL


So for the 1st time in years I am 100% happy with my system. I no longer wish it did something better or cleaner or deeper. It sound exactly how I wanted. Its not for everyone and I am sure hard core SQ guys would scoff but for me its everything I wanted.

Thanks to everyone here for the great advice and suggestions along the way. Thank you Ben for the great friendship and deals (almost feel like I stole those tweeters from you), thank you tyronshoes for all your help, thanks to Don at Unique Sounds for being so patient with the Illusion crap, thanks to Don from bigd sounds for the hookup on the Hertz mids and thanks to Nick at SI for making an unbelievable subwoofer.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Awwww, you're going to have me blushing over here. I'm hopeful that you will continued to be in awe of that system. Too bad I'm not traveling for business still or else I would have made a detour to Texas to check this out.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Seriously? Are you saying the SI is the best sub youve heard shallow or not? I never heard them.

Enjoying the G5 but my TC subs seem a bit more accurate but overall happy with it.

Also have a Helix Precision 12 I came across Ill try


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

tyroneshoes said:


> Seriously? Are you saying the SI is the best sub youve heard shallow or not? I never heard them.
> 
> Enjoying the G5 but my TC subs seem a bit more accurate but overall happy with it.
> 
> Also have a Helix Precision 12 I came across Ill try


I would have to amend that to "One of the best" as hearing memory is our weakest of all memories. 
I remember the Infinity Beta 12 from the 90's being a spectacular sounding sub and while it has been a while a Focal 13 Utopia was also one spectacular piece. Its been so long since I have heard them I couldn't give an honest assessment as to how they compare.

What I can and have compared it to within the last couple weeks is *deep breath* Infinity SSi, Infinity Kappa Perfect, Boston SPG555, Boston G5 10", polk MM 12, Polk db 12, MB Quart reference and onyx, JL Audio W3V3, Rockford.... big ass 15", Illusion C12 (not XL), Dayton HO 12, Kicker L7 and Comp 12, Image Dynamics 12, Memphis 12, Pioneer Signature 12 and a Dynaudio (not sure model) and can say it plays lower much more easily, its more musical and it responds much faster almost like a servo cone.
Granted some of those others can get much louder but I am not after SPL.

So in summary it is EASILY the best shallow sub and is EASILY the best sounding sub under $400 and has bested some $600 subs I put it against. Is it the best ever? probably not but in recent memory its the best I have heard.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So delicious I went for seconds.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I like how this turned out. I would use all the components you have now happily. Do you feel done? I mean what is next for you here or just time to chill? 

I finally feel done with the SPZ60s and g5 vented. The only thing that I want to try is those bike elec digital amps but I have no reason to so Im saying no more upgrades for a year and just enjoy it.

Also keep in mind that the 500.1 is putting out at least 650.

JL Audio 500/1


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I feel I am going to just enjoy it for a while. I have a few more reviews in the pipeline so some stuff will be pulled to test new stuff but at this point I have no reason to change out anything. It sounds just how I wanted and when I get the itch I can really pound some bass. Just shut down a friend with his 13W7 and a 1000/1 so I am happy.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

No real updates so to speak. Just had to correct a derpa moment I had. Hoped in the truck this morning and could hear a tick in the tweeters. Canceled my plans and set to work on the system. As soon as I bypassed the ESP the tick went away. It was depressing as I love my ESP. So I poped the hood open to eliminate the power wire and noticed the dang ignition coil wire had moved and was now leaning against the ESPs power wire. I had a spare 8awg run from the old system so I just left it there for the ESP. Overkill by a whole lot but it was ran so I figured why not. LOL
Anyway, moved the coil wire away and what do ya know, the ticking went away.
Man did I feel like a dumb ass. LOL


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well my ADD is kicking in again and after reading about air motion tweeters I really want to try them out. I love my PHDs but they are to clinical and I would like a little more sizzle. I actually like the "Focal Zing" but can not afford to drop $1500 on some Be tweeters and am not interested in their lower end stuff. I think the Daytons would be perfect.
I also love my Hertz mids but think I would like a try with the new SI XBL2 mids since my subs are my most favorite sub ever. LOL

These are the tweeters I think I will get.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I for one would love to see these mounted when you do get them and after your break in period, a comparison of before and after. As far as the swap of mids based upon what we've seen so far with the sub, how can you go wrong with their mids.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I didnt even see these little Dayton AMT car audio tweets. 










Would be nice for a 3 way


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

^^^^. How's that Alpine head unit treating you ?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> I for one would love to see these mounted when you do get them and after your break in period, a comparison of before and after. As far as the swap of mids based upon what we've seen so far with the sub, how can you go wrong with their mids.


I agree! Nick makes some great stuff and I am really wanting to try the mids. I am also really wanting to try these AMTs just because I love ribbon tweeters and people claim these are even better.
Just so broke right now. Someone I love dearly came to visit me from Hawaii last week and I spent way too much showing her a good time lol. At least some of the cash was spent at Victorias Secret. 


tyroneshoes said:


> I didnt even see these little Dayton AMT car audio tweets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really like the look of those but as you said, would have to do a 3-way. The Hertz beam after 2500hz and the SI mids are also only good for 2500ish. I would be pushing the tweeters (the ones I posted) at the 2500 point but several are running 130rms to them and since I only have 75rms I am not too worried.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well the wheels are set in motion. I got with Nick early for the new mids so I should be in the first batch. I keep a spare change jar by my front door and see it has enough for one AMT tweeter already so as soon as I know I have a buyer for my tweeters or mids I will just go ahead and order the AMTs.

On the downside I see one of my old install mistakes. My AC drip line came off so as I pulled the carpet back to adjust the HVAC box I noticed butt splices. I then remembered when I moved amps I just spliced new speaker wire in temporarily permanent. My OCD wont allow this to stay. LOL I also have three brands of wire running to the doors. All 16 awg but one stretch is just copper clad so that's all getting yanked. Ordered 100' of OFC 14 awg Sky High wire for a song and will just rewire it all when I change the speakers out.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

How are you liking the esp-2? Does it screw up your center image and t/a setting? I'm planning on using it in my competition car. I just can't improve the width of my soundstage. Maybe using the esp-2 would improve my score.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I love the dang thing. It widens and lifts my sound stage so well that I use it instead of my time alignment. But in my system I am limited to a less than ideal tweeter location due to prying eyes.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Changes are on the horizon. Just got some MUCH better RCA wires, thicker and better door speaker wires, several sets of tweeters to try and some new mids on the way soon (I hope).
Going to be changing it up to allow full usage of the 80PRS abilities instead of using the amps crossovers.

While I am going to be using several tweeters for testing purposes i do believe that my permanent ones will be a tweeter style I have never even heard before much less used. Even the new mids have a motor structure that I never had in a midrange before.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So happy. They made it and are beyond expectations. I didnt realize the surround was aluminum, thought it was plastic so my plans of trimming to fit are thrown out the window. On the bright side I can make a bracket and they will fire just how I wanted them too.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Uh-oh shakin it up! But weren't you saying just a few posts ago that you'd have to run a mid between these and TM65s?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

That was so last year. 

After much research and seeing what the final TM65s do as well as what Dayton recomends for the tweeter and with my rewire of the system I dont think I will have an issue.

I am switching to the Pioneers onboard crossover and eliminating the amps crossover. The ESP will only run the tweeters and allow me to dial them in better to compensate for the poor mounting location.
The tweeters will have 75 rms dedicated and the crossover will be 2500hz @ 24db (Dayton says 12db at 2500 is fine) and the mids will be low passed at 2000hz with a 12db slope. Not sure what their high pass will be yet as I have to see what they can do. I am running one right now with no high pass filter at all. It is being used as a sub. While it makes no audible sound below 30 hz I can play bass heavy music to it and at 40hz it really thumps. Sending 100ish watts to it and its not even being tickled. I may end up doing a 50hz high pass if they can handle the JLs power. I am currently at 63hz with a 36db slope. At minimum I want to change that to 63 hz and a 24db slope. I want just a tad more kick in the front than I have now.

I believe it will work out. If not than I will do something else but i have been dying to try these things.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So after hours of futzing around with positioning I found what worked best given my mounting location. They do sound better if I lean forward a foot so my OCD may get the better of me one day and i may make pillar pods. For now this will have to do.
Think I went a little overboard on the speaker wires. LOL









And all nice and hidden away.


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## cjbrownco (Apr 30, 2014)

Would you mind if I asked what made you want to ditch the Dayton subs and also what was your reason for choosing the Stereo Integrity sub.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Sound quality and depth. The SI subs can play deeper than any 12" I have ever heard. The Daytons rock but they need a nice big ported box to really come alive.
The SIs rock in a tiny sealed box. Daytons could never hit 7hz. The SIs do it well.


----------



## cjbrownco (Apr 30, 2014)

Im running the Dayton HO's right now but have been thinking about switching to the SI's. Thanks for the information.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Every single time a bass head has me play a bass song they think I have a couple 15" sub's. These are the tightest sounding sub I ever heard. I am in my truck at this moment playing some YYZ at ear splitting levels.
Can't smell the tweetrrsvyet so I guess that's good. Lol


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Seems I forgot to update this thread with all the wonderfullness. Channels 3&4 on my amp had died so I ran the system passive. I blundered and used too low of a crossover point and blew one of the Dayton tweeters.
I do have a new diaphragm on the way and I just got back from meeting a member from here and bought his very nice looking 450/4, thanks Wrecker1. 
The new mids should (I hope) be here this week and then this weekend I can swap the amp, mids and tweeter and run the system active again and keep from blowing the other Dayton AMT. LOL


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah amt is very sensitive compared to domes. Id try to raise the crossover to around 3k or use a pretty sharp slope on them at 2.5.

What are your plans for a new amp? / never mind, see you got the same amp.


----------



## cjbrownco (Apr 30, 2014)

How are you liking the AMT's? You have pretty much the exact system I would like to have in my truck. Being broke is a huge limiter with this hobby


----------



## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Can't wait for your comparison to the mille 6.5. I have heard a set with deaden doors and jl slash 600/1 passive and they sounded great!


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Now thats more like it! Got the new amp and tweeter installed by 10am today and by 6 i had almost 8 hours on the new tweeters. LOL Got the system fairly dialed in and am just in awe. I am in love. Really makes me wonder why I ordered the SI mids, these Hertz really rock. Was listening to some classic rock and forgot I had the subs turned off. 
Now that i can run full active I can take advantage of my processing capabilities. One big suprise was after running the auto EQ. It ALWAYS drops my subs down to -20ish and this time it kept everything at 0. Even my EQ settings are nearly flat.
Happy days.


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Time to finally update that signature and put this puppy to rest lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh some day I may get the big Mac 6 channel. 
Plus I am waiting on the SI TM65 mids still. I thought they were supposed to be here last week but they aint here.


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Well that makes (2) of us as far as those SI mids lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

My unicorn. *drools*












It is hard to justify buying it though as sonicly my system sound should not change. Well going off numbers anyway. The JL amps are so clean and transparent but the Mac is..... well LOOK at it!


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah man. You really have tried pretty upper echelon stuff. I cant see the SI being THAT much better than the Hertz and same goes for the mac vs jl. You really dont need that Mac as pretty as it is.

unless you start competing


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> unless you start competing


How does that factor in? I know a lot of people running gear that most would consider "inferior" to the Mac that score extremely well in competition. 

I view the Mac as an aesthetics thing. Just a preference, or desire for a rarer piece of equipment with more perceived sophistication.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Thing is pound for pound the JL is probably a better amp but I have always had an obsession with Macs. That amp in particular. I have installed two in my life and loved both. Granted both were full Infinity Beta speakers and Pioneer ODR source units but they sounded so great. Was a sound i had chased for many years.
I now have it with a bit more sparkle.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

In my experience, some of the judges score certain brands like mac higher than common amps. Appearance, cache' and so on

But the JL slash are great amps at any price. Considering picking up an older 500/1 as its the perfect amp for what I need.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So made some more changes today.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

thoughts?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

They make sound. It will be a while before I have any real thoughts. They need to be broken in and it will take me a while to tune them in. Bummer as just yesterday I got the Hertz perfectly dialed in. LOL


----------



## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

LaserSVT said:


> So made some more changes today.


Very nice!!!!!


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> They make sound. It will be a while before I have any real thoughts. They need to be broken in and it will take me a while to tune them in. Bummer as just yesterday I got the Hertz perfectly dialed in. LOL


I completely understand about needing to get them tuned. But I really appreciate this gem from Mr. Ribbit himself...



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> There's a big element of ******** in the whole idea of speaker break in. The part of the speaker that changes over time is the spider. It's a spring. It wears out. Depending on how it's made, the stiffness is sometimes set by using more resin. That resin cracks pretty quickly and the spring becomes looser.
> 
> Now...does it matter? It does matter a bit for subs because we use them at resonance and that's where the spider matters. Below resonance it matters too, but not as much. About a half octave above resonance, it doesn't matter because the spider has no real affect on the sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah, not getting into that argument. People are militant on both sides of that fence. I listen to many many different speakers every day and have been through many and in my experience drivers that have a large amount of movement (ie: Xmax) tend to sound better after 10-20 hours of usage.
I have not really noticed this with tweeters but have on subwoofers and mid-bass drivers.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Still loving these speakers. They are getting nicer and nicer sounding every day. I am sure its a combination of the constant and minor tweeks I am doing but also a bit of break in as well.

The builder (Nick) of the SIs did say they will break in. But as we all know he just throws speaker parts in the air and whatever lands on the floor and resembles a speaker he just slaps in a box and ships it out.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

More changes.


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Oh sweet, when did you pick that one up ?


----------



## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

That 1000/1 should make the mkivs happy! Since you have had even more time with the tm65s any more input? Still like the better than milles?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> Oh sweet, when did you pick that one up ?


About 6 hours ago. 


WhiteL02 said:


> That 1000/1 should make the mkivs happy! Since you have had even more time with the tm65s any more input? Still like the better than milles?


They seem to love it.

As for the TM65s, they keep getting better and better. They no longer have that "mounted in a Dixie cup" sound around 500-800hz like the did when installed. I had to retune and cut another 2db out of that area. Their midbass kick is just killer though.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Seems i forgot these pics from earlier.




I learned the hard way not to use a non washered flat seat screw on these speakers. You can see where it twisted the rubber a bit. Before installing the other side I switched to a tapered head screw and then went back and corrected the passenger door.


As it stands now I am at the highest point in sound quality out of any stereo I have built for myself. 
I have pulled the ESP-2 and put it up for sale as I no longer need it for the stage width now that I have gotten more familiar with the 80PRS. That being said, the PRS will soon be for sale when I can get the ESP sold and have some more cash to buy a P99 and bluetooth module. I just want some more EQ and there is an ever so slight chance of going three way active but I feel no rush as I love the sound as it sits.

I still need to sound deaden my roof and hope for input as to the best materials to use up there that wont break the bank.



Since I did eliminate the ESP I had to rplace the bezel around the cargo lamp switch. I had the mic in there too but the steering wheel blocked it so nobody could hear me. I moved it to the gauge cluster and now can make use of the hands free. LOL

I think I am going to move the JL bass knob to above the cargo light switch and open the hole where it was and mount the USB port there since it always just has that little Verbatim USB drive in it.


I do have the flush mount deck kit on the way. Always hated this one but it was needed for my first deck that was really deep. Just never bothered to change it. Looks so cheap though so out it goes! LOL


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Have another 50 square feet of GTMat Quadro on the way and swapped out to an AGM battery. So nothing major.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Added the GTMat Quadro to the roof and floors and it actually made my stereo sound much worse. LOL Had to retune everything. Never realized how much the trucks cab was reverberating with the speakers. I am blown away how much quieter the truck is inside now. Cant even hear the rain on the roof any more. 

I also found a flush kit I like for the deck so it got a new surround. Not that anyone cares. LMAO!!!


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I now have my copper chassis jewel on the way. So excited! *banana dance*


----------



## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Nice, very interested in your opinion on the P99.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> I now have my copper chassis jewel on the way. So excited! *banana dance*


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

lol...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Truck is now almost 100% layered and I just did all new door, body and window seals. Its hard to close the doors now unless I crack a window. LOL

I did some work to my sub box as i was off on size. It is now a perfect .6 per side and no more pollyfill. I also put GTMat in the box and am simply amazed how much that has cleaned up some minor boomy issues i have had. The extension has increased a soild coupld db below 30 hz as well. That 7hz note in Bass I Love You makes me sneeze. LOL


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

I bet that made your subs much happy too with the added breathing room.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well I am in shock and have a bit of disbelief. The P99 sounds so much better than the 80PRS I am stunned. Running both with the same crossover points and with the EQ flat and auto EQ off the P99 is head and shoulders better. After using its auto EQ it does a much better job of tuning the system in. I am only using a handful of halb DB cut/gains in a few areas I like more impact with.

Its time to get serious and I need someone with an ear and equipment to help tune it in. Looking at the old EQ curves saved in it I see massive cut/gain adjustments separate for left and right so I know I have tons of room for improvement. 

One thing I didnt like was the auto EQ changing the crossovers. It sent my tweeters to 1.15 Khz and my mids at 50hz. I adjusted that before I tweeked the EQ but really am just cracking into this thing. Took forever to get it in the dash, so much more wire and then with the BT module cable.... was able to find just the right spot for every wire to hide in. LOL

Chassis is so pretty its a shame I have to hide it.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

nice!


I'm a little bit unhappy at your comments though, to be terribly plain.

I was hoping that you would acknowledge there is a mild increase in sonics from this upgrade at the source, and not much more but you, you....


<Robert de Niro> "Yooooouuu...."


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Had to use the Pioneer trim ring to get a proper fit. Even shaving the dash kit ring the deck would still scrape a bit opening and closing. Did not want.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

LaserSVT said:


> Had to use the Pioneer trim ring to get a proper fit. Even shaving the dash kit ring the deck would still scrape a bit opening and closing. Did not want.


the ribbon cables are prone to breaking down on some older model Pioneers, I don't know if you can tell or not, but it's possible that, it's possible to make the passage of the ribbon during motorized operation modes, less prone to breakage. NO IDEA if this is warranted, just throwing it out there if your install is experiencing some rub/scrapes during operation.


after dropping a G on a deck, I'd exhaust any possible fail points as best I could.


if I dropped a G, and if I had a G to drop.





I have to say that I want you to do a custom face panel now. Totally selfish of me, since I have your truck with the stock radio in it right now, haha...

I may do a stock stereo face-off, with the band saw trick that I can simply attach using neodymium magnets and covering a little widescreen tablet for the source, if I ever get around to ripping into the audio.

Any idea why the truck would run super rich, and taking out the PCV from the grommet leans it out and it runs better?


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

You need a new spider injection.

Take off the intake tube, hold the throttle body open and look inside with a flashlight. If you smell any fuel or if you see clean aluminum than you need the new kit.
Its $307 and switches the truck from the poppet injection to a true multiport. Nice power and mileage gain. We do about 3 a month.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> I now have my copper chassis jewel on the way. So excited! *banana dance*


bro.. step it up to the platinum chasis


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

lolz


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

LaserSVT said:


> You need a new spider injection.
> 
> Take off the intake tube, hold the throttle body open and look inside with a flashlight. If you smell any fuel or if you see clean aluminum than you need the new kit.
> Its $307 and switches the truck from the poppet injection to a true multiport. Nice power and mileage gain. We do about 3 a month.


see, that's the kind of thing people around here (hometown) are just clueless. 3 shops haven't hinted around to this common fail, changing out O2 sensors and plugs/cap, seems to run their options pool dry as that is what the scan tool is giving them.

I thought it was my ECM going out, but a good clean out of the battery terminals shows it wasn't the alternator, haha...

I got another alt under warranty and it started doing the same thing, I figured just disconnecting and reconnecting the battery would have been fine but I had to take the bolts out to see the actual corrosion.

It's running a solid 14.8 volts at startup, now...

:blush:

thanks for the tip, I have been reading about the spider replacement, but it just seemed so far fetched that my "new to me" truck would succumb to a common malady...

where do I get the parts? I don't have a parts house accommodation, but I can get 25 off of 50 at Advance right now? Or is that Napa...

is this a dealer item?


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Any car parts place has them. They are made by BWD. RockAuto will be the cheapest. Make sure to get new plenum gaskets and lubricate the injection harness where it sticks through the plenum. Also don't buy the "adapter bracket" as they never need them and its a waste of $15.


----------



## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

P99 looks really nice in there. Glad it sounds nice, too!
There's a recent thread on portable RTA setups. If you have a laptop or smartphone, the rest of the gear (mic and S/W / App) isn't too much to pick up or too hard to figure out. And there are a bunch of guys on here happy to give help and pointers.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I have fiddled with this things EQ until all I saw were OLED dots everywhere. Seemed to only make it worse. LOL I just auto EQd and have maybe 10 bands changed from -1db to +1.5db and called it a day. I think it sounds fantastic but now I have to turn down the amps a bit as i can hear a slight thud when the system turns off and I know this 99 is putting out more voltage than the 80PRS was.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I cant remember the last time I bought jewelry for a girl. Probably why i am currently single. LOL Still, bought these for the truck just because they are pretty. I am sure my lead terminals are a better connection but they just look so ugly on that AGM battery.
I haz issues. I have run out of serious parts to buy and am buying the dumb crap. LOL


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I say this knowing damn well that I will be buying the MK V subs when Nick makes them....... maybe a custom door panel and go three way active.... and a-pillars....... Brax amps sure look nice........ butterfly!


----------



## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Hahaha


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## Iamsmuts (May 24, 2015)

I think we are a long way from a "Simple $1500 system." Your system is almost worth as much as your truck.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Funny thing is that the used prices on these parts is almost equal to the trucks KBB but at retail they far exceed it. To make it worse the stereo did cost me nearly double what I paid for the truck.
I pretty much stole the truck. I even tried to talk the guy out of it but he wanted to trade for my Comanche.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh goodie! The goodness has arrived. *drools*

.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

get your ass to fedex to get those other goodies


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

I don't even know what those are but damn do they look nice! Lol


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> get your ass to fedex to get those other goodies


They aint there yet.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

WhiteL02 said:


> I don't even know what those are but damn do they look nice! Lol


Sinfoni Maestoso T165W 6.5" mid-woofers.


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## Wrecker1 (Oct 26, 2012)

Swapping out the TM65?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes sir. I really like the TMs but they need to be at med/high to high output to really enjoy them. Lower volumes they are just too..... boring. I believe it has to do with the motor design and just being so clinical. 
Thats not a big issue. They really need to be in a 3-way setup. If they were low passed at 800hz or lower they would be perfect but I do not have space for a dedicated mid and the Sinfoni should be crossed over around 3500 which will work perfect for me.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

LaserSVT said:


> Yes sir. I really like the TMs but they need to be at med/high to high output to really enjoy them. Lower volumes they are just too..... boring. I believe it has to do with the motor design and just being so clinical.
> Thats not a big issue. They really need to be in a 3-way setup. If they were low passed at 800hz or lower they would be perfect but I do not have space for a dedicated mid and the Sinfoni should be crossed over around 3500 which will work perfect for me.


this is a big pontification, Laser.

If the problem in the range from 1800 hz to 3.5Khz, is causing you issues with the TM65, it's likely not all due to beaming/narrowed dispersion. If it is a function of the motor geometry, like all the other 'wannabe' two-way woofers that end up being delegated mid basses, that is a definite bummer.

I am pretty sure my hypothesis that the TM65 has a really powerful motor, is correct but it doesn't appear to allow it to extend even with a paper cone and a 1.5" coil.

I read recently how a smaller coil can contribute to better highs, maybe a TM65 that uses a 1" Kapton former, with the same motor parts would fall into that sweet spot of output with upper extension many of us would like to enjoy...


but your truck will always have low stage if the truth is that you sit up and the speakers that make the stage are way down... but that's not really a bad thing. I like a stage that is sharp even if it doesn't go much above the dash's height, I know it's not ideal but it's also a trade-off for stealth, so what if the BEEB is shafted on stage height, he's short anyways...


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

cajunner said:


> this is a big *pontification*, Laser.
> 
> If the problem in the range from 1800 hz to 3.5Khz, is causing you issues with the TM65, it's likely not all due to beaming/narrowed dispersion. If it is a function of the motor geometry, like all the other 'wannabe' two-way woofers that end up being delegated mid basses, that is a definite bummer.
> 
> ...











As stated when the woofer was made that it really wouldnt be great above 2k and he recomended a crossover point below 2500hz. Not a lot of tweeters will play that low but I knew this going in and selected a few tweeters to pair with it to see if it can be used in a two way application. I am still awaiting my R2904s to arrive and I would wager they would pair well using a 2k crossover. I will try them with that tweeter before I test the next set of speakers but I am still waiting on FedEx for those.

I am just not overly happy with how they perform at lower volumes. If you drop the high pass to 63hz they do sound much better at lower volumes but then they run out of low frequency ability (ie pop) before they reach midrange output levels they can achieve cleanly when crossed over at a higher frequency.

I am doing a poor job verbalizing this.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes they are crooked as I didnt want to drill new holes. Screws have a rubber and a teflon washer behind them so as to not upset such a pretty speaker.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Pretty. How do they sound?


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)




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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Dude! I was at page 1 and 2 or so, and you had the Illusion C6's, I thought I'd check in to the last page and you got ALL kinds of different gear...What happen...in a quck short run down manner without me reading 10 pages?!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hmmmmm.. that box seems familiar.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Audio ADD and the quest for perfection. I dont want to junx anything until I have had some hard core listen time but I giggle like a special ed 5th grader when i listen to it. As a matter of fact I am going out there now!


Quick rundown: 
Illusions, hated them. Mids are mediocre at best. tweeters sound great though when they work.
Hertz ML1600: Loved them, wanted more kick and a cleared 1000-2000 range.
TM65: GREAT kick but lack luster at low volumes and they dont like to play past 2000hz.
Focal K2 Power: It was just meh
Sinfoni: All that is goodness.

Tweeters:
TBI were temperary
PHD AF1.c were just wonderful. Not sure why I sold them. Lack a little pizzaz on the top end I guess.
Dayton AMTs: Excellent when tuned right. Impossible in my application to get on axis and their sound changes with the temperature.... like a lot.
Focal Utopia Be: Great tweeter, excellent detail. Way too hot though.
Hertz ML280: sounded like the PHD, like they were twins.
Scans: great but big and hard to be on axis so I am about to try something else.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Audio ADD and the quest for perfection. I dont want to junx anything until I have had some hard core listen time but I giggle like a special ed 5th grader when i listen to it. As a matter of fact I am going out there now!
> 
> 
> Quick rundown:
> ...


you can always remove the faceplate and make them smaller. itll get tricky to mount them though


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

LaserSVT said:


> As stated when the woofer was made that it really wouldnt be great above 2k and he recomended a crossover point below 2500hz. Not a lot of tweeters will play that low but I knew this going in and selected a few tweeters to pair with it to see if it can be used in a two way application. I am still awaiting my R2904s to arrive and I would wager they would pair well using a 2k crossover. I will try them with that tweeter before I test the next set of speakers but I am still waiting on FedEx for those.
> 
> I am just not overly happy with how they perform at lower volumes. If you drop the high pass to 63hz they do sound much better at lower volumes but then they run out of low frequency ability (ie pop) before they reach midrange output levels they can achieve cleanly when crossed over at a higher frequency.
> 
> I am doing a poor job verbalizing this.


pontification, for dramatic effect.

I know you love SI and their woofers, so I tease a little, no harm.....

the thing about how they sound better if you can hear all the bass from them at lower volume levels is likely not because of them playing more cleanly, but possibly dealing with some issue in the truck's acoustics that bass mapping would suss out.

the new speakers look great. Am I right in presuming that you will put those tweeters in the stock locations just to see, and then load them into A-pillar molds?

I couldn't afford those tweeters or those other tweeters you have now, for sale..

or the SI TM65's and probably, the Italiano speedo's in 6.5 size.

so, ADD...


----------



## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

WOW.... Thats a lot of gear not to like. Is this while driving, or stationary? 

Have you thought about a full channel DSP? (sorry if that was covered in your thread)


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

cajunner said:


> pontification, for dramatic effect.
> 
> I know you love SI and their woofers, so I tease a little, no harm.....
> 
> ...


As i have said before, I am no guru and cant tell ya what half the numbers for a speakers spec mean. I can tell you that the ML1600s by themselves as well as the Bostons and Illusions and several others did not have the ability to make solid clean bass like the TM65s do. Problem is you have to roll that crossover up a bit if you really want to play them loud (like levels the Hertz and Boston can handle).
As to if the Sinfoni does it better, it sure seems like it but I want to play with them more first before I just blurt out.... more than I have... that they are the best thing ever. LOL Right now they sound spectacular but after some time I will find material that does not suit them or find nuances I dont like. Right now though I cant find any issue with them, they do it all very well.... so far.


And to your last harping question  The tweeters are in OEM locations. They perform quite well there and when I lean forward to get on axis they do not sound very different.
I will most likely get the Sinfoni tweeter as i can mount that in a much more desierable fasion.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> WOW.... Thats a lot of gear not to like. Is this while driving, or stationary?
> 
> Have you thought about a full channel DSP? (sorry if that was covered in your thread)


Both driving and stationary. I had a very specific sound I wanted. just took a bit to find it. My P99 has all the DSP I want.
I liked all my previous speakers save for the Quarts and parts of the Illusions but there were certain areas that needed help. A 3 way system would have solved several issues as well as some tweeter pods but I really needed to keep it all stealth due to it being my work truck.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

And just when I thought I was done......











Now I have to sell my JLs and find an equally good deal on the Zero 4 LOL


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> And just when I thought I was done......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


chill


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Chill as in cool or slow down? LOL

I wasnt planning on doing this just yet but they are in my top 3 picks for amps I very much wanted and I am getting it from a great guy at an equally great deal. I just couldnt say no. I need help.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Chill as in cool or slow down? LOL
> 
> I wasnt planning on doing this just yet but they are in my top 3 picks for amps I very much wanted and I am getting it from a great guy at an equally great deal. I just couldnt say no. I need help.


slow down lol. i think this amp by itself exceeds your thread title haha


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah that title went out the door a few components ago. LOL

But I am dreading finding a good deal on a Zero 4 as I will be forced to buy it. They do turn up from time to time for around a grand...ish. 
Also my JLs are really nice so I shouldnt have an issue selling both of them. If I can get $350 for each one its all good.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> slow down lol. i think this amp by itself exceeds your thread title haha


Well if it doesn't its brother I just scored sure will. LOL


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

get a good tune and good tweeter locations along with this


----------



## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Yep I keep on enjoying this thread.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> *Yeah that title went out the door a few components ago. LOL*
> But I am dreading finding a good deal on a Zero 4 as I will be forced to buy it. They do turn up from time to time for around a grand...ish.
> Also my JLs are really nice so I shouldnt have an issue selling both of them. If I can get $350 for each one its all good.


I considered labeling my build thread budget too. Decided against because I know myself too well. Labeled it sq'ish though.

I guess my current drivers would be considered budget based but my amps sure weren't. 

I know between you, skizer, and deepinpink I will end up running some high end scan twiddlers and some sinfoni mids if not amps too! Had plans of upgrading sub to a scanspeak long ago though so I don't blame you guys for that. Unless a sinfoni 10 will work well in around .5 cubes sealed? Then I blame you guys


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)




----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


>


Yup, system has really changed. LOL


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

lolololol


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

We don't know who you even are anymore lol.


----------



## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

rton20s said:


>


I think it turned into "$1500 per component system..."

Still great fun to watch!


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah but everything was such a great deal! I am going broke saving money. LOL


----------



## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

What happens to all your "old" equipment??


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

It gets installed in various other DIY members cars.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Man it is going to be hard to resist the urge to install this thing before its brother arrives. I am not good at patience. LOL I ordered more Quadro for the rear wall so have to wait anyway. Man is this a beautiful piece of equipment though. Just so simple yet beautiful. I will miss my bass EQ knob the JL had but a simple gain like this one has will work just fine I hope.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i can never tell from pics, but are those white, or a really bright brushed aluminum color


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Light brushed aluminum. All pictures I have seen they look white as well. Had to see one of Mosconis own pictures to realize they are brushed aluminum. LOL


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

aren't the zero series a slightly different color than the as line?


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Couldn't say. This is the first one I have ever seen in person. LOL


----------



## casey (Dec 4, 2006)

yeah has definitely evolved a bit lol. the zeros are a different color than the AS


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Here are a little better pics to help show their color:


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

It always bugged me some that the black vent pieces aren't symmetrical. I guess it's my OCD or something. lol


----------



## abusiveDAD (Jan 7, 2009)

Thread title change time


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

More goodness has arrived today. Man these tweeters are tiny!


----------



## frontman (May 1, 2013)

I love your enthusiasm! This is so epic to see each step toward your attaining the "perfect" sound for you! Keep it up! It is very enjoyable as you share your triumphs!


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

oh, the Mosconi...


oh, the Sinfoni...


oh me, oh my oh............................................................. 


son of a gun, gonna have big fun on the bayou...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnKOVPXhlnE


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

cajunner said:


> oh, the Mosconi...
> 
> 
> oh, the Sinfoni...
> ...


If only you saw what else was in the box. LOL


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Since the Sinfoni T25T was designed to work off axis I figure I will put it to the test. Had to dremel out the factory opening a bit to get them somewhat aimed but they fit very well.


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Great job you've got going on there so far.....


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Niebur3 said:


> It always bugged me some that the black vent pieces aren't symmetrical. I guess it's my OCD or something. lol


I'd have to second this. 

What's up with that sinfoni amp? Thought you were running mosconi amps?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

so now we can expect an average joe review of the r2904's?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

reminds me of the scene in Pulp Fiction:

"now, this is awesome stuff, nothing bad about it... but this, is the Madman."


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Brian_smith06 said:


> I'd have to second this.
> 
> What's up with that sinfoni amp? Thought you were running mosconi amps?


The Sinfoni amp was just so I could check one out. What a wonderful piece. Maybe I can get them to send me a pair for testing in the future. 


SkizeR said:


> so now we can expect an average joe review of the r2904's?


If you like sir. I thought you just wanted me to share my impressions with you on them but I will sit down and get a review started tomorrow. Figured they been out so long there had to be many reviews on them.

By the way the review will be all glowing. Those tweeters can do no wrong. Just spectacular and they do everything you would expect a high end tweeter to do. Quite special.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well the Sinfoni T25T is installed and I started out with them as a basic install in the doors to see how they perform really off axis. In a week or so I will be aiming them back apx 30* but as it stands now these things perform amazing off axis. Leaning forward in the seat didnt seem to improve the sound at all.

I was worried about these tweeters because they are so small and they are replacing Scab Speak R2904s so they had some HUGE shoes to fill. Right off the bat they were tamer in the 5-12k range but its only took .5db-2db gains in that area to make them sparkle like the scans. For the most part they sound eerily similar. Smooth yet crisp and just love to play loud. They pair well with the T65W woofer as well and deck gains match for the mids and tweeters. Even the auto EQ didnt want to change them.

But for now I have blown 3 hours listening to them and my ears are ringing. I like them and as I get the tune dialed in I am sure I will be in love.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

as close as they are located in your (our) truck, I would be curious to know how they might sound as a passive crossover component set, as I assume they are matched by Sinfoni to a tier, this being about second highest in their line-up?

If they play that easily, any decent passive network should suffice, but a special one made from foil inductor coils and poly film caps, using a higher than usual (for your truck) crossover like 3.8Khz may be something, especially since you have time alignment capability already for the "DSP enhanced" system.

I would want to know what it is about them that makes them step up above the previously awesome door entrants in your pageant of sound.

I figure there must be at least some break-up peaks in the woofer's response since the cone appears to be quite hard, and the tweeter may exhibit some distortion below 2500 hz, due to the size and benchmarks on tweeters with the same geometry.

A custom passive could do a lot, if someone already engineered a couple of circuits for taming various anomalies. I know it would be very unlikely to get a passive that worked in this application perfectly, already built and available, like the Focal Cross Block, but it would be cool to know whether or not the extra processing was necessary since we're not talking about huge differences in mounting distances or having to work a tweeter's splash off a windshield...

I'm glad you like that combo, and I think the only feasible thing to do is run the Sinfoni for a bit, in the place of the Mosconi...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

cajunner said:


> as close as they are located in your (our) truck, I would be curious to know how they might sound as a passive crossover component set, as I assume they are matched by Sinfoni to a tier, this being about second highest in their line-up?
> 
> If they play that easily, any decent passive network should suffice, but a special one made from foil inductor coils and poly film caps, using a higher than usual (for your truck) crossover like 3.8Khz may be something, especially since you have time alignment capability already for the "DSP enhanced" system.
> 
> ...


I appreciate all your input as its usually quite helpful. I just spent another bit of time with it again to play some music I know very well and these are just preliminary thoughts as I really need some time with them.
They pair to perfection with the Maestoso mids. When I ran the auto time alignment and EQ the deck just attenuated the driver side by 2db for both the mid and tweeter and left the passenger side at 0 for both. It did its bad habit of setting the crossover points too low so I changed all that. I then went in and set the distances to closer to what they actually are and that got me a nice stage. I then turned off the auto EQ and theyre was very little difference as opposed to other setups. I did turn it back on as it sounded better.
I tried a 2.5k and 3.15k crossover setting and the sound did not change one bit. I thought that was very strange. So I left it at 3.15k and toyed with several slopes. Right now I like the 18db best. The mids are low passed at 3.15k with a 6db slope and play to 80hz with a 12db slope. Some of the somgs I listen to are strong n the 70hz range and at volume the mids do protest a 63hz high pass but at 80 hz they are perfect. That allows the sub to take over at 63hz with a 12db slope and they are attenuated 8db.

I very much like the sound but the Scans had more sparkle. The Sinfoni made for a better stage though. After adding .5db around 5k and .5db at 6k and 1db at 8k and 1.5 at 10k and 2 at 12.5k and .5 at 16k and .5 at 20k now the Sinfonis have the sparkle the Scans had. 
They do seem to have more pizzaz in the 4k range. I am not sure how to explain it. they are not better or worse just they have more to them in that area. Let me figure out some words to misuse for that. LOL


Here is a crappy video shot with my Droid phone so dont expect much but it gives an idea sorta.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh and as far as running passive goes, they do have a nice crossover:


















"- 1,6mm phenolic laminate PCB protected by black solder resist photoresistant on copper side;
- Exclusively hand made soldering, double quality check - visual and electrical.
- Low induttance metal oxides resistors to avoid the sound “coloration”.
- Thermocemented Copper used to avoid mechanical vibrations and optimize layering with a resulting improvement of the Q factor and the transfer function. For a clearer and more full-of-information sound.


Specifications:
Handled power: 300W RMS / 600W Max 
Normal Impedance: 4Ω
Tweeter : 18dB/octave
Level attenuation selectable : 0, -3, -6dB
Woofer : 6-12dB/octave 
Crossover Frequency : 2.500Hz 
Tolerance: ±20%
Dimensions: 15.3x12x4.2cm


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Oh and as far as running passive goes, they do have a nice crossover:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hang em on your wall. to nice to put in a car lol


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Should see their big daddy ones.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Using Emelios advice today I made some small changes that made big sound changes. I removed the tweeters cover at first and that helped with a little strangeness i was having somewhere in the 5-7k area. He then suggested some trim for the tweeter so I used some material a friend said was CLD but it seems more like padded headliner material. I cut it to shape and formed it around the tweeter. I then angled both tweeters back several degrees which is as far as I could push it and still keep from touching the factory grill.
These small changes have blown my mind. The tweeters sound so much more lifelike and.... larger. I have dropped them to a 2.5K high pass at 24db slope and they are just stunning. Absolutly spectacular. Now I see why Jerry and Steve love these so much. Just spectacular.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I shrieked like a little girl at the UPS guy. He was looking at the box and said hes never delivered something with such a high insurance on it and it must be fancy because its from Italy. LOL He paused with that look of wanting to know what it was but knew he couldnt ask. He was happy to stand there when set it down next to its brother and opened it. I opened the box and he just went "Ohhhhhh" LOL
Nice guy, been my driver for 4 years now and knows I order lots of equipment and will call me if I aint home to come meet him to get it. Love UPS.


So excited! Cant wait for Saturday! 

Big shout out to Mike! You said this thing was pretty much new and it sure looks it. Cant wait to power both these beasts on for the first time! Yahooooo!


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Thats so awesome...they look amazing. I realized we are on similar paths here and it scares me. You went from Slash amps to Mosconi, and i did the same thing. Yours are higher end than mine, but still. And now you have me drooling over the Sinfoni mids. 

I need to block you i think, LOL. 

Enjoy those mosconi's...they are rock solid amps and mine still make me smile when i open my hatch sometimes and i remember i have them


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Did you notice any change going from the Slash to the AS?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> Did you notice any change going from the Slash to the AS?


I did not notice any major differences.

But to be fair i changed subs at the same time i changed amps, and i do like my new sub way better. And the sub amp is double the power of my slash 500.1. So any changes here would not be apples to apples.

But between the slash 300.4 and the AS100.4 there was not really a noticeable change no.

I think you will see more of a difference being you have better mosconi amps, and better speakers.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Thats kinda what I had expected. These amps are only 30% more powerful so i am not expecting anything magical to happen. I just thought they were beautiful from the first time I saw a picture of one. Thanks Ben.  Wanted them but could never afford them. The deals were too good and I had to have them. Plus my JLs have been out of production for nearly a decade and I have run JL for years now so wanted something different and something kinda special. 
If they do manage to make the stereo sound even better, well thats just gravy.

BOWL OF GRAVY!


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm wondering as well if you will notice a difference because both sets of amps are great. One thing is for sure, you have great speakers and subs to really determine differences! Very sweet setup!!!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I insist that you pm a mod and have the title of this thread changed to read, " blank check build " lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

What? If I break it down into 4 payments its still $1500.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

By the way, I'm glad to see the change to the new avatar.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well so much for patiently waiting for this weekend. LOL

JLs are out and now about to finish off the sound dampening.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Screw waiting for the weekend when you have full access to a shop. Get to sweating and get those amps installed mister lol.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I am so happy for you! Your excitement is contagious bro. Get er done....


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Coppertone said:


> I insist that you pm a mod and have the title of this thread changed to read, " blank check build " lol.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:



This build almost has me excited about doing my heater core tomorrow. At least while I do that I get to do a lot of necessary cleaning to carpet and cables. May almost look new again by the end of the weekend?


and finally get down and dirty with some deadening


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Has to mod up the remote gain knob a bit but got her done and wired. You can see my helper and his excitement over the laying the GTMat Quadro. LOL


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Tell him it could have been worse, he could have been taking it all off lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Man you go through 25 feet fast.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

"back in my day 25 sq feet of deadener used to cover the street up hills both ways to school"

Not sure why that just popped in my head but it did


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Powering them on for the first time about scared the crap out of me. Never knew they lit up all red. LOL


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> Powering them on for the first time about scared the crap out of me. Never knew they lit up all red. LOL
> 
> Yes that is standard on the Zero amps...and a much better surprise than when i fired mine up for the first time. I got a blinking orange light
> 
> They look beautiful...how do they sound?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Love the new lights!








So I learned a few things today. One is certain bass notes on hip hop songs that really growled was just my rear firewall resonating. The bass is noticbly more detailed vs the JLs. The noise floor on the Zero4 is non existent. With the JL I always had a tiny tiny amount of background noise I could hear between tracks and always had a strange .... sound that emanated ffrom the speakers. Could only hear it if the truck was off and dead silent but it was there. Running you couldnt hear it. 
These amps on the other hand have ZERO hiss between tracks and not a hint of noise in the system.

Now for ****s and giggles I set them up identical to the JLs. JLs had all the gains at the exact halfway mark so I did the same with these. I didnt change any settings in the DSP and just put in songs I know well. The volume levels were so close I couldnt tell a level difference. ie; if the deck was at 36 on the JLs it was the same level of output on the Mosconis. The difference is I can go to levels I never even tried on the deck because I could hear distortion coming in. Some songs that I could max at 40 I can now max at 50 and they are much much louder while staying perfectly detailed and no distortion.

I do miss having a bass EQ knob as the remote gain isnt 100% to my liking so I just bumped the EQ on the P99 a tad from 25hz to 63hz with the slop starting at +.5 and peaking at 40hz with 2db and back down to +.5 at 63 hz. The knob then functions more to my liking for switching from hip hop to classic rock. For some reason the knob seems to do pretty much nothing after the 2/3 mark. Not sure whats up with that but its a non issue so I aint gonna worry about it.

So once again I can easily hear a difference between similar power and quality amps without changing source signals. Mosconi is quite a bit superior and more so when it comes to vocals.

I was once again playing Hotel California but at a level I never could before. I knew the truck was louder because I can see my neighbor 50' away watering his lawn and singing right with the song. He plays guitar ant trumpet so I threw in some salsa and then the Eagles again and he said thats the first time he has ever heard a stereo sound like the instrument. 7 songs latter he still wasnt ready to get out. Think it was the nice AC in the truck. LOL


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Great initial review. I can't wait to you get some more listening time and make adjustments.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I know this does not sound good due to the mic not being able to record the sound at this level but at least you can see the BMs do in fact hit the 7hz note. LOL


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

Those Mosconi amps look great! ill be getting the dap soonish... 

what was wrong with the Dayton tweeters? how did the sound change with the temperature??


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Due to our large swing in temperature changes during certain parts of the year it would change the tweeters sound in many ways. I would bet now since its always hot that they would always sound the same.
I did have staging issues though and thats simply due to my install and not the tweeters. I wanted the widest and highest and most accurate stage I could get USING FACTORY LOCATIONS. Yeah its dumb but I lick windows.

The Sinfoni has allowed me to achieve that goal.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I am really in love with this combination. It is without a doubt the best sounding stereo I have ever owned in a vehicle. The new amps are really the icing the cake needed. As great as my JL Slash amps were these Mosconis are just so much better. The power is just better. Some songs I would jam loud enough to start to clip the JL but the Mosconi gives so much more that I cant push them to clip. Well I could but am responsible enough to not do it. LOL Bass is so much more controlled and tighter with the Mosconi Zero3 its almost unbelievable. Yes the extra sound deadening helps but more of the credit goes to that amp.

It does come at a cost though. I was on a 160 mile drive and was listening to Pink Floyd and 80's stuff most of the time at a level just loud enough for me not to hear myself singing along. I went to throw my CD wallet in the back and saw the rear seat was in the useable position thus hiding the amps. I pulled over and droped the seat back down so the amps get a nice shot of the AC vent and they were both almost too hot to touch. Yikes! They didnt go into thermal and never protested but they were quite hot. Nice thing is they cooled down really fast as the AC vents hit their internal cooling fans and they were back to the 110* range within a couple minutes. I have done that drive many times with the seat up and almost as loud with the JLs and they never got near that hot.
I usually leave the rear seat down as its pretty useless for passengers anyway and nobody is ever back there plus I can see my beautiful amps. I just flipped it up because I was in some areas where I wasnt sure about and had to be away from the truck. With the seat up the truck looks 99% stock inside. Most have no idea what a P99 is so it just looks like an old truck with a Pioneer radio that dont even have a CD slot!


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

They really did make a difference hun! Glad to see your system coming together for ya!


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## cheebs (Apr 3, 2009)

i have a question. i am getting the similar truck soon as far as your speaker placement if you had better glassing skills would you have still used the placements you used?


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> Due to our large swing in temperature changes during certain parts of the year it would change the tweeters sound in many ways. I would bet now since its always hot that they would always sound the same.
> I did have staging issues though and thats simply due to my install and not the tweeters. I wanted the widest and highest and most accurate stage I could get *USING FACTORY LOCATIONS. Yeah its dumb but I lick windows.*
> 
> The Sinfoni has allowed me to achieve that goal.


hahaha.

im with you on stock looking everything though. Wife said I could do whatever I wanted as long as it looks stock. and within a reasonable cost 

She wasn't happy when the new tweeters I ordered didn't fit behind stock grills. Had to promise it'll look stock when done. Don't think I will be keeping that promise very well


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## cheebs (Apr 3, 2009)

Brian_smith06 said:


> hahaha.
> 
> im with you on stock looking everything though. Wife said I could do whatever I wanted as long as it looks stock. and within a reasonable cost
> 
> She wasn't happy when the new tweeters I ordered didn't fit behind stock grills. Had to promise it'll look stock when done. Don't think I will be keeping that promise very well


is that for my question?


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

my tweeters are in the a pillars. Yours are in the doors right?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

cheebs said:


> i have a question. i am getting the similar truck soon as far as your speaker placement if you had better glassing skills would you have still used the placements you used?


I am still contemplating moving the tweeters to the pillars and probably will before the year is out. Takes a lot of tuning headaches out of the equation. That and the sound stage is just better that way.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well hell! I made a mistake but luckily Orca and Jacob were able to point out my stupidity. I ordered a G-RTC for my Zero3 for remote gain control. Knob never worked right and only changed the gain up to the halfway point and then didnt do anything. Turns out thats the module/knob for the processors. I have to try and find a RTC_MOS instead. Great news as i felt the amp wasnt giving its all and that was right. With the proper module it sets the amp up for mono duty and should have 3db more output.

Cant wait to find one now!

Thanks Jacob, real wealth of knowledge.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeah I gotta say watching your build got me to pull the trigger on a 120.4 dsp for the XBL tweets and Hertz mids

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I am glad my Hertz went to a good home. I hope you get to enjoy them as much as i did. Those are some really great mids.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Really can't wait 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> Well hell! I made a mistake but luckily Orca and Jacob were able to point out my stupidity. I ordered a G-RTC for my Zero3 for remote gain control. Knob never worked right and only changed the gain up to the halfway point and then didnt do anything. Turns out thats the module/knob for the processors. I have to try and find a RTC_MOS instead. Great news as i felt the amp wasnt giving its all and that was right. With the proper module it sets the amp up for mono duty and should have 3db more output.
> 
> Cant wait to find one now!
> 
> Thanks Jacob, real wealth of knowledge.


Pardon my stupidity but why would it add 3dB more output if the gains are set correctly? 

Kelvin


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Dunno. I really know very little of my amps. Something to do with it setting the amp up for mono configuration. Also the car I have in there now does not allow the gain to go past a certain point. I set the gains without the knob installed and never noticed that after the card/knob was put in that I lost a little output. 
I pulled the card last night and unplugged the knob and that by itself made the amp louder.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> Dunno. I really know very little of my amps. Something to do with it setting the amp up for mono configuration. Also the car I have in there now does not allow the gain to go past a certain point. I set the gains without the knob installed and never noticed that after the card/knob was put in that I lost a little output.
> I pulled the card last night and unplugged the knob and that by itself made the amp louder.


Guess you need the remote to tell your amp you need the extra power that comes from a mono configuration... 

Never heard of that problem before. 

Kelvin


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## Dynamic SQ (Jul 25, 2015)

subwoofery said:


> Guess you need the remote to tell your amp you need the extra power that comes from a mono configuration...
> 
> Never heard of that problem before.
> 
> Kelvin


Or the old knob is only going up halfway like he stated. Therefore, when he gets the correct knob, he's going to have a knob with full gain; instead of half gain.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Guess you need the remote to tell your amp you need the extra power that comes from a mono configuration...
> 
> Never heard of that problem before.
> 
> Kelvin


I believe so. Jacob was explaining it to me that with the proper card the amp has a 3db bump (didn't think to ask if that was input gain, just assumed so) and I will have full sweep of control on the knob.
On the bright side the knob I have will work with the other card. The remote gain knob with the proper card is a basic knob with a red LED off to the side to indicate power. The knob I have is semi-transparent with a blue LED and when its powered up it matches the P99s color and look just about perfectly.

Oh well, live and learn.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Wow. Just wow. I have loved my Mosconis since day one but they just went to the next level. Today I removed both the module AND remote knob wire from the amp and then powered up the system. I almost shat myself. The bass was deafening. I knocked the decks sub output down about 14db to level the system back out. So that wrong module was really holding the amp back. More so than that it was also holding back sound quality. 
Being that I had added another 50 square feet of Quadro mat when installing the amps I attributed the reduction in bass impact to the deadening of the truck. Nope, amp just wasnt playing the low frequencies properly. The growl and impact I had lost during the transition are now back and so much stronger than before. I have never heard my SI subs sound so great! I switched over to a couple bass songs and instantly in "Bass I Love You" I could hear how much cleaner and stronger the notes were and when that 7hz note came in I giggled a little. While it always moved the dash a bit it now shakes the living hell out of it. LMAO! I switched over to the CD Chad made for me to play a song that I have no idea who it is by or what the name is but it has some serious bass. I sat there stunned for the first 30 seconds at the sheer amount of bass. I then remembered the truck really hits better when the windows are down so I dropped them and my eyes started to vibrate. I was stunned. It was like one of those bass head trucks. About 30 seconds latter I saw my wall mounted mailbox vibrate off its hangers. 

I am just beside myself with joy. If I thought I loved the amp before now I must..... I dunno, rape it?


I have no idea what was going on inside that module but its no bueno for bass.


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

Awesome!!!!!

and I will be running 4 of these subs..ha


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Rut-roe! Something to play with. 




















What a heavy brick for 60 watts! I think its heavier than my JL 500/1 V1. LOL


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

There ya go brother, next level type of ish.. Let us know your thoughts on that. Sad to see you only have one channel of amazingness.. It really is a match made in heaven, those amps and the Maestoso. Class A Sinfoni is truely CLASS A.. Nothing like it ive ever heard.


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## [email protected] (Jul 21, 2011)

Best thread ever.... Hey check out my simple system in a modest vehicle, hey watch me fall off the rails and go bat **** crazy! 

Keep it coming, i'll be reading!!!!


Oh and the gear/system is awesome but second to your passion and enthusiasm!!!


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

^LMAO!!


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Laser thank you for the inspiration to try out Mosconi goodness. Even with their entry level One series amps its just tons of clean power with no hint of floor noise. Oh and the Hertz ML1600 all I can say is wow, in my truck I haven't experienced mid bass that seemed that effortless and clean. Thank you for the great deal on those and I am going to say you are a jerk as I want to try out Sinfoni now but that won't be in the cards for a very long time.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

etroze said:


> Laser thank you for the inspiration to try out Mosconi goodness. Even with their entry level One series amps its just tons of clean power with no hint of floor noise. Oh and the Hertz ML1600 all I can say is wow, in my truck I haven't experienced mid bass that seemed that effortless and clean. Thank you for the great deal on those and I am going to say you are a jerk as I want to try out Sinfoni now but that won't be in the cards for a very long time.


LOL! Cheers mang.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

sticking by my jerk comment lol, I'm hooked.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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