# Help on A pillar design Focal 165 VR3 2012 Nissan Frontier



## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Hi guys,

Looking for some guidance on building a-pillars for my 2012 Nissan Frontier. 

So far I have the head unit installed RCAs and remote leads run to under the front seats (Pioneer DEH-80PRS).

I have the following sitting in my garage to be installed:

Focal 165 VR3s
2x Kenwood Excelon shallow mount 10-inch subs
Steg 02:02
4 channel Pioneer stage 4 amp

Here is the catch; the 4-inch Focal midrange has the mounting tabs that are frankly a PITA for an install where the midrange will be visible.

I have tried several different templates and played around with them but I cannot figure out a solution that looks good. I'm hoping that someone here has some experience with Focal's midranges with the mounting tabs, and how to make a clean install with them.

I have spent hours searching the internet to no avail.

I have included some pictures of ideas that I have had and scrapped.

P.S. I have done a fair amount of custom work including sub boxes, door pods & a-pillars with tweeters.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I thought this looked too big










This just looked terrible









Here is what I am leaning toward now









Or maybe I should just scrap the idea of mounting the driver behind the baffle??


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## jcpahman77 (Mar 5, 2013)

Mount it from the front, function over form; then make a "beauty ring" to cover the tabs. Countersink the wood screws and then bondo over them. Just an idea.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here is what the mid range looks like by itself (its a 4-inch driver, but with the mounting tabs is 5 1/16 in total).


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, thanks for the idea on the beauty ring, that thought ran through my mind also but how to you finish the bondo i.e. paint or wrap, with the driver installed? I'd really like to get these wrapped in suede or similar.


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## jcpahman77 (Mar 5, 2013)

Bondo can be painted, but it's best to give at least a coat of primer before painting. Wrapping I'm coming up a bit blank, but I'm not very experienced with fabrication; primarily due to lack of space and money. It seems like there has to be a way to wrap it though.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

haha, okay. I didn't mean how do you paint Bondo. I meant, if I build an a-pillar where the mid is mounted from the front of the baffle, then screw a beauty ring to it, then Bondo the holes... How do I now wrap it? It's like the chicken and egg theory.


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## jcpahman77 (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah mid-way through typing my last response my brain short circuited when I got to that part. You could wrap the whole A-pillar once it's assembled, but I'm not sure that's the look you're going for.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

If anyone has any pictures of a clean install with these mids (or any other Focal's weird shaped mid ranges) I would love to see them.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

that doesn't look like it will be too fun. speaker is just too big to look that good. i'd mount it from the front tho. i think it would be harder to mount from the rear.


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## The Performer (Aug 12, 2012)

I had that same set in my truck till about 3 days ago. (Upgraded to the krx3 set)

Here's what my pillars looked like.









I made a trim ring/grill to cover the mounting tabs. 

Do yourself a favor and lose the 80prs. Its amazing on a 2 way front stage but a nightmare for a 3 way unless the midrange and midbass are mounted right next to each other.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for the picture. Just what I was looking for. I planned on running the tweet & mid off of channels 1&2, mid bass (in door) of of 3&4 and subs on 5&6. Do you think that is going to be a nightmare?


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## The Performer (Aug 12, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> Thanks for the picture. Just what I was looking for. I planned on running the tweet & mid off of channels 1&2, mid bass (in door) of of 3&4 and subs on 5&6. Do you think that is going to be a nightmare?


Yep. That's how I had them. Problem is the 80 prs can only go down to like 1.2k hpf on the high out when in networking mode. ( not low enough to let the mid play what it needs to play). So you have two options. Either run the midbass and mid off channels 3&4 through the passive x-over and tweeters on 1&2, or go back to standard (non network mode) and run midbasses on rear channels and mids and tweets on front channels.

If you do the first option the problem is now your midbass and mid are separated in the car and wont want to time align correctly because they are too far apart. 

If you do the second option then you can't use the full potential of the 80prs. Now to successfully do the 2nd option with the polyglass/performance 3 way you need to either crack into the passive x-over and add midbass inputs or not use the x-over for them and use the amp x-over (if it has atleast a low pass onboard )

Follow me?

Right now with my setup with the Krx3 I have networking turned off and using the passive crossovers,(bi amp orca modified.) At the end of the day I might as well be using an entry level h/u since the 80prs isn't doing anything special.


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## aktill (Apr 12, 2009)

If you follow this link: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...y-car/143502-08-nissan-frontier-take-two.html

...there's a photo of a similar set in a dash pod in my truck. Not a big fan.

When I rebuild, I'm going a different route.

Edit: never mind, you've seen these before sorry!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

haha, thanks aktill. I thought those looked familiar.

Okay, "The Performer", now you have opened a can of worms, but I think I followed what you had said.

This is the first time I've heard you cannot HP lower than 1.2k in N/W mode. Definitely would have been a deal breaker for me before I bought the unit. Running the Mid and Midbass off of the same channel defies the whole purpose of putting the mids in the a-pillar and as you said, there would be major TA issues.

Looks like keeping it out of N/W mode is the only option. I have the Pioneer PRS-D4200F amp, it has a HPF or LPF from 40-500hz so this factor should be okay. I think 400hz is the crossover point between the Mid and Midbass, no?

How do you like the KRX3s? It's ironic, I had the KRX2s and had the mid range smoking at one point playing "Shine on You Crazy Diamond". Per Orca, running them bridged on a Steg 04:01 may have been too much power. 

What are we missing out on by not using N/W mode? I couldn't quite figure that out.

EDIT: I had a thought, if you run the unit in N/W mode and set the filter slope to 0bd/oct wouldn't this work? Then you could just use the HPF on the amp or the passive filter a last resort.

RE-EDIT: I checked the manual, it says you can go down to a 6db/oct on the high N/W. That sucks.


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## aktill (Apr 12, 2009)

There's a nice open spot above the door handles where a pod might be built for just the midrange, but then there would be a much greater separation between mid and tweet. Tempted to see if an rs52 would fit there, but it'll be a while before I'll have something setup to test that properly.


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## The Performer (Aug 12, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> haha, thanks atkil. I thought those looked familiar.
> 
> Okay, "The Performer", now you have opened a can of worms, but I think I followed what you had said.
> 
> ...


You should have seen my face after installing the 80 prs when I went to set the crossover and it stopped going down at 1.2k. I was pretty pissed... (im pretty sure its 1.2k, ill have to check ... either way its still not correct where it should be for the midrange)

With it in standard mode you get less flexibility in crossover points and slopes, as well as all phase control except in sub. Eq stays the same and you can still t/a but hell, at the end of the day its still a waste of processing power. 

Like I said, that h/u was made for a 2 way front stage only. Damn shame too...could have been perfect. Don't feel bad, I got fooled too.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

The Performer said:


> With it in standard mode you get less flexibility in crossover points and slopes, as well as all phase control except in sub. Eq stays the same and you can still t/a but hell, at the end of the day its still a waste of processing power.


Well, to be honest I actually didn't pay anything for the unit. I got it in exchange for a set of a-pillars I did for the owner of a car audio shop. So I'm probably not as pissed as you were.

I agree, its a waste... but so is a 454. I think I can live without phase control, I am not an invalid and change them at the amp. To me its the TA and EQ that's important. Oh, and here are the a-pillars I did.








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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, back to the subject at hand. Here is a couple more prototypes I made today:


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## thisgsx (Mar 16, 2006)

Damn, I wish I had the skills you guys possess.


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## jcpahman77 (Mar 5, 2013)

jnchantler said:


> Okay, back to the subject at hand. Here is a couple more prototypes I made today:


I like where this is going. I don't have much more to offer, but I like this prototype better than the first ones. 1.25k is the lowest the HPF goes on the mid band. In N/W mode the 80PRS appears intended to be setup as a 2-way front stage +subwoofer. If you need more than that in your front stage and to be active the best bet is some sort of DSP or simply use the amplifier's X-overs if they have the settings you need.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah, I think this is design is getting somewhere now.

Aktill, did you mean on the door (where the sail panel would be in most cars)?

Need advice on the angle of the mid and tweet, straight across the dash, or aimed at the opposite head rest? Keep tweet & mid on same axis or different?


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## aktill (Apr 12, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> Aktill, did you mean on the door (where the sail panel would be in most cars)?


Yep, for at least the mid, with maybe a little work to nudge the defogger vent up a touch. With a little work it seems like a better location than the a-pillar, so that you don't end up blocking the airbag cover with the mid. That cover limits how much aiming you can do with a larger mid.

Won't know if that location works until I reinstall some amps and test though.



jnchantler said:


> Need advice on the angle of the mid and tweet, straight across the dash, or aimed at the opposite head rest? Keep tweet & mid on same axis or different?


One seat or two?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Just looking for one seat. I would think if you put the mid in the sail panel area it would block the mirror, no? I'm not concerned about the air bag as it is at the top of the pillar (above the handle). I don't even think it would affect the area where the mid would be.


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## aktill (Apr 12, 2009)

Shouldn't block the mirror if you're careful. I haven't done any proper mockups yet, but I could get the RS52 to fit there (has a large dia than the focals) with a clear line of sight.

On the airbag side, I was actually thinking of the dash airbag rather than the pillar one (mine is old enough not to have those). If you look at the photo below, my dash pods come just to the edge of the airbag cover without blocking it. If you go the dash or a-pillar route, you'll just need to mind them a little.










I aimed these on a line where the off-side tweet would reflect off the driver glass to the outside ear, and vice versa (2 seat). Worked okay imagining wise, but I'm going to do more experimenting next time.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Hmm, okay. Those are focals access line, not poly glass. I wonder if the poly glass would do any better up there.


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## aktill (Apr 12, 2009)

Might very well do, this series was a waste of time IHMO. The tricky bit was providing enough sealed volume up there, which is why I'm going with a dome midrange this time around.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, a few more days of reading, looking, thinking and not enough sleep.

The good news is my sub box arrived, the bad news is it will need some fiberglass work (not quite the build quality I was hoping for). I now have everything (other than a fuse block and finish material for whatever enclosure I end up building) to do the install.

I have a couple of fairly car/product specific questions.

Kick panels (mid bass is in door in all scenarios):

I have been thinking about them. I would probably have to run the mid and tweet in the kick (because the mid & tweet are run through a passive cross over and the mid bass has it's own channel).

I could also run the mid in the kick and the tweet in the apillar. If I went this route I think I would have to run the Midbass and mid range off of the passive cross over and the tweeter on it's own channel. (I only have 6 channels from the deck, then a 2 channel steg and 4 channel stage 4). The problem I see here is that I would be under-powering the mid bass & mid range(75RMS @4), and have wasted headroom on the tweeter. (Unless someone wants to swap my Steg 02:02 for a 04:01, when I bought mine they were the same price, $800 - i'd also be open to other good 4-channel amps) PM me if you are interested.

In short, the two questions are: Where to locate the tweeter, and how to cross them over.

My next question is vehicle specific:

Has anyone run kicks in a pathfinder or frontier? They all have fairly high seating positions in relation to a car and I'm wondering if this poses an issue.

My next questions is speaker specific:

When I mold the enclosure for the 4-inch mid, do I seal the enclosure or leave it open? How much air space is needed if I seal it?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, I'm back from the dead, after being out with food poisoning all week. In the midst of trips to the porcelain throne, I managed to get my subs installed. 

I have two Kenwood Excelon shallow mount 10-inch subs (KFC-XW1000F). I don't have the time right to build the box that I want, so I ordered a pre-fab so I could at least have them in. I have these run in parrallel (4+4 ohm, so 2 final) and bridged to my Steg 02:02. Per Steg's power ratings, the amp is capable of delivering over 1,100 RMS in this set up. Overkill? I think so, but this is America.

I am a little concerned about frying them, as I have read several reviews where people have so I have the amp gain set at pretty much zero and the sub level on the head unit is way down also.

I wanted to run the 11-inch Focal Polyglass sub but there is just not enough room in this truck.

I'll give a brief review on these subs. My main priority in this whole build is sound quality, next is appearance (I want to be able to show this off and be proud), the third is volume. I was talked in to trying these subs out, and I got them for free by doing some custom door panels for a shop. I am not disappointed in the slightest, they actually perform a lot better than I had expected. These are far more musical than my last sub (12-in type R, ugh), and about as loud between the two. They don't shake the mirror uncontrollably, or do any of the other things people say to gauge how good a sub is but they are loud and stay clean.

I'm looking forward to building a proper box as they should sound even better.

I may start on the A-pillars this weekend if I can make up my mind on how to do them.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, major change in plans!

The Focal's are gone. Dynaudio 242's are on order. I'm going to try and use the full ability of the DEH 80PRS before going to 3-way. If I decide to go to a three way set up, all I have to do is add Dyn's 3-inch mid.

I bought them from here off of Bmiller1 who has a whole list of items for sale.

Here's a few pictures of the goods:


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Hope you got it authorized coz Dynaudio is notorious for having as many fakes as real ones... 

Kelvin


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah, I hope so too! This is the thread that I got them from: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/146347-selling-off-my-old-mans-stash.html

He seems to be legitimate. I compared the pics to Dyn's online comparison of fakes and the McCoys and they seem fine. I also paid through Paypal with a VISA so I have two forms of recourse but I'm sure I won't need it.

I was almost burned with two sets of Focal's a while back. The seller on Ebay didn't say where they were shipping from and when they arrived I found out where they shipped from, got my money back though. First and last time I bought anything but cell phone chargers from Ebay.


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## calebkhill (Jan 12, 2013)

jcpahman77 said:


> If you need more than that in your front stage and to be active the best bet is some sort of DSP or simply use the amplifier's X-overs if they have the settings you need.


Thank you. 80prs is a great unit.....


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, testing my new avatar and signature. The Dynaudios arrive tomorrow so you should hear something soon. I will probably move this thread to build logs soon, or start a new one.

Edit: I will hear something soon. You will see some pictures.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Bringing this thread back from the dead.

I had the DynAudio's installed by a shop a few months back and apparently the Pioneer Stage 4 amp took a dump during the install, they were cool about it and replaced the amp with an Audison SR-4, as I had also bought the Pioneer from them just weeks before.

I bought a 3sixty.3 and installed it in the dash. Not particularly impressed so far, this may get swapped for a bit one soon. 

Today I ordered the 3-inch dome mids and a second SR-4 (one will be bridged to the midbass' at the other will be for the mids & tweets).

My BM MKIV is on order and should be here in the next couple of weeks - fingers crossed.

My plan right now is to mold the 3-inch mids & tweets in the a-pillars, build a fiberglass enclosure for the sub in the passenger footwell and build the amp rack under the rear seat.

Does anyone have experience with installing the mid & tweet combo in the a-pillars? Looking for advice on the direction to install them, i.e. on or off axis.

I will probably start on the a-pillars next weekend if the mids arrive so there should be some more pictures soon.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

And here are some more pics of the existing setup.










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## calebkhill (Jan 12, 2013)

jcpahman77 said:


> I like where this is going. I don't have much more to offer, but I like this prototype better than the first ones. 1.25k is the lowest the HPF goes on the mid band. In N/W mode the 80PRS appears intended to be setup as a 2-way front stage +subwoofer. If you need more than that in your front stage and to be active the best bet is some sort of DSP or simply use the amplifier's X-overs if they have the settings you need.


How do you cut into the wood to make the speaker sit down in it


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

calebkhill said:


> How do you cut into the wood to make the speaker sit down in it


I took the Focal midrage, put it flat on the MDF and drew a line around it, this gave me the area I needed to cut. Then used a router with the standard router bit, not sure what its called, and set the depth to about the thickness of the mounting tabs.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

My Dynaudio dome mids arrived today. Much larger than I expected (which is good) and very heavy for their size. Will hopefully start on the A-pillars this weekend!


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## calebkhill (Jan 12, 2013)

The Performer said:


> I had that same set in my truck till about 3 days ago. (Upgraded to the krx3 set)
> 
> Here's what my pillars looked like.
> 
> ...


How'd you make the trim ring?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

It's been a while but I started moving on my install again. First things first is installing an iPad in the dash.

Due to my job requiring me to take the iPad up on roofs I have to keep it in a protective case. I chose the life proof case as it had an optional mount bracket that I could use for this install. 

First order of business is moving the a/c controls down to make room for the iPad.



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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here is the original faceplate that I had left over in the garage. Came in handy as I could cut it up for the needed parts.

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Controls cut out and ready to go.

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

New home for the a/c controls cut out, control plate epoxied in. 

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Fiberglass, bondo, primer, texture and paint. New a/c control piece back in place. Paint is a good match to the door cards and a pillars.

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Part II is the actual iPad mount...










Cutting out the faceplate










Attached 1/2 inch mdf to give a solid mounting plate.










A layer of Bondo glass.










And a quick stop for lunch.

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Bondo, primer texture blah'd'blah.

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here it is installed. Came out good for what it is. Would have preferred a sleek flush mount system but not workable with the case unfortunately. 

Hopefully next weekend I'll get to use my new Jasper jig on the sub woofer box. 

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> Part II is the actual iPad mount...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

This build hasn't followed one part of the original plan so far. Little update...

I traded the 3sixty.3 for an MS8, which I like a little better but not being able to make fine adjustments after the auto tune is driving me up the wall. I think I'm going for an H800 next. I don't feel confident enough in my tuning abilities to start from scratch, otherwise I'd get the BitOne.

I started playing around with mid & tweeter locatons this evening, so far I'm like them both in the apillar.




























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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Made some more progress today.










Made my rings.










Cut out for the mids.










Added a recess so they sit flush.










Got them aimed with the tweets. I found that pretty much straight across worked best.










Stretches some tshirt material and a layer of resin.

















Drilled holes around the edge and added some mat. There wasn't enough room to add the mat to the inside as the rings sit close to flush on the pillars.

That's it for today. Hopefully through the week I'll be able to start with the bondoglass and filler, plan to have them wrapped next saturday.

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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I forgot to add pictures of the MS8 install. This was my first time using rivet nuts and threaded inserts, I think it went quite well.









Marked up the MDF board that the MS8 was being mounted to.









Installed the threaded inserts in the board.









Painted the board a light grey, similar to the cloth seat color and some of the interior parts.









Marked and cut a section of the carpet out.









Installed rivet nuts in the sheet metal.









Installed the board and amp behind the rear seat.









Wired up.












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## Rayburn Rat (Jun 22, 2014)

Good looking work


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