# Fountek FR88 arrived!



## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

Ordered four of these from Madisound. Not 100% thrilled with the quality control on these. Two of them have some dings in the cone, and one has a scratch in the cone, but minor stuff. Overall, well built driver ...

Just played around with them in the car a bit ('03 G35 sedan). Sound pretty nice in the A-pillar/sail panel location, but where they truly seem to shine is mounted on-axis in the dash. Incredible staging and width. Unfortunately, don't think I'm getting that mount in the G35 anytime soon ...

I tried them full-range, and they are very bright in the G above 4k. I assume that was a back wave issue and should be tamed with an enclosure ...

What stood out in the quick listen was very distinct detail in the vocal ranges ...

Solid Xmax on these for such a small driver. Don't be fooled by the power ratings. I ran them a solid 15 minutes crossed at 150 hz 4th order, pushing the cone to near full excursion at time, no problem at all. Power was from an Alpine PDX 4.150, so roughly seeing 85 W max at 8-ohms ....

Screw the sensitivity, they kept up nicely with the Dyn 102's. They'll hang fine with most drivers I think ..

Overall, looks like a nice driver ...

I'm going to try to run two on each side in the kicks. I'll report back when I get it done ...


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Pics?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Yep, put them in the .75 liter recommended enclosure and they will really come to life. I to really like them vocals.


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

The question I have, which was not answered in the other thread, is, what problems/issues will I run into using two on each side?

Do I need to stack them vertically? horizontally? 45 degrees?

Is cancellation an issue ...


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I had raised the question about using 2 but from those who have used them, they have plenty of output.

I think for the price, Im just going to have to get a pair of these. I've wanted to try an on axis dash configuration and I think I migh tbe able to do it with the dimensions of this driver. 

Thanks for the quick review!

And yes, pics would be nice if you can. They do say that the cones are very thin aluminum and fragile.


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

The cones are paper thin ...

I think this and the small area allow for EXTREME driver control. Very precise movement even at high X-max ...


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on some Dayton RS100's for a dash pod build but after reading about these guys I'm going to try them out. I plan to pair them with the Tang-Band ceramic tweeters I've been reading about and run them active off of my Kenwood KAC-X4R. For a little over 100$ I think this budget setup will do fantastic. Have ID OEM's in doors right now but since these guys can play down to 200hz I'm going to throw in some Peerless SLS 6.5's. I'm really excited to see what a ~200$ budget 3 way can do.


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## qpwoeiruty999 (May 15, 2007)

vageta said:


> I was getting ready to pull the trigger on some Dayton RS100's for a dash pod build but after reading about these guys I'm going to try them out. I plan to pair them with the Tang-Band ceramic tweeters I've been reading about and run them active off of my Kenwood KAC-X4R. For a little over 100$ I think this budget setup will do fantastic. Have ID OEM's in doors right now but since these guys can play down to 200hz I'm going to throw in some Peerless SLS 6.5's. I'm really excited to see what a ~200$ budget 3 way can do.


Still not sure if Fr88 is better than RS100. Fr88 Graphs . Small enclosure requirements of FR88 is a big plus but not the only factor for taking the decision. Or i just throw away the idea of a 3" and go for the bigger Peerless 830881...


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

infiniti23 said:


> The question I have, which was not answered in the other thread, is, what problems/issues will I run into using two on each side?
> 
> Do I need to stack them vertically? horizontally? 45 degrees?
> 
> Is cancellation an issue ...


This should help:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/2268-where-does-midrange-lobing-occur.html

this is better:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42063&highlight=lobing


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> This should help:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/2268-where-does-midrange-lobing-occur.html
> 
> this is better:
> MTM horizontal center channel speaker vs vertical TM center channel speaker - Audioholics Home Theater Forums


^^ Good stuff. This guy rules. 



I just placed an order for a pair of these FR88's. Guess I'll see soon enough how they perform. Expect an (amateurish) review once I get to set them up and give a listen.


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## dubbreak (May 9, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> This should help:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/2268-where-does-midrange-lobing-occur.html
> 
> this is better:
> MTM horizontal center channel speaker vs vertical TM center channel speaker - Audioholics Home Theater Forums


I'd be more worried about comb filtering than lobing. You can't get two 3" drivers close enough to prevent comb filtering. If you crossed to a tweeter say at 4500hz then you wouldn't have the issue of combing, but they would lobe to some degree (for classic vertical mtm the vertical dispersion would be limited which can be used to advantage).

If you want to run two per side running as a 1.5 way would eliminate the comb filtering, give you better low end power handling, but would give you a shelf in the response where you roll it in (which could be dealt with via eq).

Or just cross a single one high enough. Zaph did power handling on the b3s (or was that b3n).. crossed active @ 200hz LR4 it was able to handle 128 watts fine (well under the 3mm x-max).


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

dubbreak said:


> I'd be more worried about comb filtering than lobing.


And THAT's what I was trying to think of when I was responding. Dangit, for the life of me I couldn't remember it. Thanks!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

These really do look like promising little drivers. I'd be curious to do a head to head against the RS100. I think these drivers hold the edge over the RS100's on paper.


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## Sponge (Nov 16, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> I think these drivers hold the edge over the RS100's on paper.


Both drivers are on the Zaph graphs if anyone hasn't seen them.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/
http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/compare.html|Audio


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Sponge said:


> Both drivers are on the Zaph graphs if anyone hasn't seen them.
> 
> Zaph|Audio
> http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/compare.html|Audio


That's why I said that on paper the Fountek holds the advantage. But IME, what's on paper doesn't always translate 100% to the real world once you factor in the god awful listening environment of the car audio world. It's funny how a car's interior can really change things.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

From testing both drivers, I would have to say the Fountek has the advantage in the midrange to upper frequencies, but the RS100 is still the king of low-end of 3-3.5" drivers in my book.

And as mention above by infiniti23 the thin cone and a very nice motor give this driver great control.


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## dubbreak (May 9, 2008)

Yeah, the FR88 has the advantage on high end extension, but the rs100 looks cleaner down low.

The question is do you need the extra extension to go tweeterless? People have successfully run the rs100 FR (though I've seen it used more often as a mid in a 3-way).. I wonder if the FR88 would have better "air" than the rs100 run FR.


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> That's why I said that on paper the Fountek holds the advantage. But IME, what's on paper doesn't always translate 100% to the real world once you factor in the god awful listening environment of the car audio world. It's funny how a car's interior can really change things.


Agreed 100%. Zaph provides a fantastic baseline for driver selection, but the environment he tests in is so radically opposite of what we use these drivers for.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

dubbreak said:


> Yeah, the FR88 has the advantage on high end extension, but the rs100 looks cleaner down low.
> 
> The question is do you need the extra extension to go tweeterless? People have successfully run the rs100 FR (though I've seen it used more often as a mid in a 3-way).. I wonder if the FR88 would have better "air" than the rs100 run FR.


I don't think that the high end extension of the FR88 matters only in FR apps. IMHO it's best to have a midrange that can extend as low and as high as possible so that you can keep it in a passband where it covers as much of the human voice spectrum as possible. Granted, no 3" midrange will be able to cover the lowest of the male vocals (at elevated listening levels) but some do a pretty good job. So if the FR88 could be crossed at 150-200Hz and then LP'd at say 6-8KHz, that would make it one hell of a driver. I know from experience the RS100 can be crossed at 200Hz or a little lower (with a steep enough slope) but I feel the high end on it could be better. It's a smooth roll off, just a steeper roll off than the FR88. Sorry for the rambling.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I can say this much, the FR88 is more detailed and accurate when used as a midrange then the RS100, as a feel the Peerless 830986 is more detailed in the midrange then the RS100, But the FR88 is better then both, but below 200-225hz I would have to say the edge goes to the RS100.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> I don't think that the high end extension of the FR88 matters only in FR apps. IMHO it's best to have a midrange that can extend as low and as high as possible so that you can keep it in a passband where it covers as much of the human voice spectrum as possible. Granted, no 3" midrange will be able to cover the lowest of the male vocals (at elevated listening levels) but some do a pretty good job. So if the FR88 could be crossed at 150-200Hz and then LP'd at say 6-8KHz, that would make it one hell of a driver. I know from experience the RS100 can be crossed at 200Hz or a little lower (with a steep enough slope) but I feel the high end on it could be better. It's a smooth roll off, just a steeper roll off than the FR88. Sorry for the rambling.



You can use the FR88 in that range as that is the range i tested it, from 200hz upto 10khz, but I liked it best from 250hz upto 7-8khz. The tweeter was the OW1-fs. This is one great sounding combo.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> I don't think that the high end extension of the FR88 matters only in FR apps. IMHO it's best to have a midrange that can extend as low and as high as possible so that you can keep it in a passband where it covers as much of the human voice spectrum as possible. Granted, no 3" midrange will be able to cover the lowest of the male vocals (at elevated listening levels) but some do a pretty good job. *So if the FR88 could be crossed at 150-200Hz and then LP'd at say 6-8KHz, that would make it one hell of a driver. I know from experience the RS100 can be crossed at 200Hz or a little lower (with a steep enough slope) but I feel the high end on it could be better*. It's a smooth roll off, just a steeper roll off than the FR88. Sorry for the rambling.



The L4 does this very well too. I'd just love to see what I'll get from this less expensive and SMALLER driver that I actually have a chance of mounting on axis in the A-Pillars  Now THAT may make a huge difference


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> The L4 does this very well too. *I'd just love to see what I'll get from this less expensive and SMALLER driver* that I actually have a chance of mounting on axis in the A-Pillars  Now THAT may make a huge difference


And I was going to mention that if you didn't. Yes, the L4 is a really great driver. But it's big and it's overpriced IMHO. 

Damn you guys for pointing out great drivers like the FR88!! I'm done buying drivers for my xB install!!!!!!!!! LOL!


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

hahaha You know how it goes around here 


If I wasnt in the midst of doing this install, I probably would have just re-installed the 
L4's. But since Im doing fiberglass work and getting my hands dirty, whats an extra $60 to see if I'll get a much better end result ? Hey if they sound as I think they may when put on axis up top...it could be pretty killer.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I hear you. But having already done all of the fiberglass work for my mids/tweets I'm not about to go back and do it again just to test out the FR88's.  I'm sure someone local to me will buy some that I can listen to.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Oh, I can completely understand that 

When Im done this project, Im not going to want to make changes (at least driver size and location-wise) for some time.

uuughh...


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## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

Here-I-Come said:


> I can say this much, the FR88 is more detailed and accurate when used as a midrange then the RS100, as a feel the Peerless 830986 is more detailed in the midrange then the RS100, But the FR88 is better then both, but below 200-225hz I would have to say the edge goes to the RS100.


I agree with you about the RS100, digs low but doesn't seem to have that sweet midrange sound. Could just be me. Look, I just bought these Peerless 
P830856 3.5 midrange shielded 62 to 10,000HZ, FS 62.4HZ at Parts express for about 19.00 each, about twice that at Madisound. Ok here's the deal, right after I bought these I had an accident and I'am not going to be able to install them for about 8 weeks. I really liked your midrange reviews. If you have the chance to buy and test these I would love to hear your thoughts. I'am looking for something a little closer to a midbase. These would be installed in the a-pillars with Hertz tweets and SLS8's in the doors.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Figured I'd share a couple pics of the packaging from Madisound. VERY well packaged!
Box inside of a box with peanuts, inside the speaker box, foam frame, bags containing the speakers, and a cone protecting plastic piece.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Those Wisconsinions' did a helluva packin' job huh?


Too bad everything you get doesn't arrive like that?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Figured I'd share a couple pics of the packaging from Madisound. VERY well packaged!
> Box inside of a box with peanuts, inside the speaker box, foam frame, bags containing the speakers, and a cone protecting plastic piece.


Thanks for the pics 

I ordered from them and was curious on how they packed stuff.

P.E. doesn't seem to go as far with their packaging .


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Also, although the pics didnt show it, I did write it in the description...

The FR88 box seen above came INSIDE another box with peanuts in it. EXCELLENT packaging especially when considering the pricing of these drivers. One thing I was dissapointed about was that the box seems to indicate that there is a 4ohm version...didnt see it listed on the site..


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

captainobvious said:


> Also, although the pics didnt show it, I did write it in the description...
> 
> The FR88 box seen above came INSIDE another box with peanuts in it. EXCELLENT packaging especially when considering the pricing of these drivers. One thing I was dissapointed about was that the box seems to indicate that there is a 4ohm version...didnt see it listed on the site..


There was a 4 ohm version, remember these are designed and built by the owner of Hustler Audio. This unit was the Trinity X3 in the Hustler Audio line-up. But don't worry, there is a new and improved Trinity 3 4 ohm version on the way from Hustler Audio.. Yes, you heard me correclty, an improved version above the FR88EX. I will however cost a lttle more.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Here-I-Come said:


> There was a 4 ohm version, remember these are designed and built by the owner of Hustler Audio. This unit was the Trinity X3 in the Hustler Audio line-up. But don't worry, there is a new and improved Trinity 3 4 ohm version on the way from Hustler Audio.. Yes, you heard me correclty, an improved version above the FR88EX. I will however cost a lttle more.



Any idea when the new 4 ohm version will be out?


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## vibrator (Mar 24, 2005)

Here-I-Come said:


> There was a 4 ohm version, remember these are designed and built by the owner of Hustler Audio. This unit was the Trinity X3 in the Hustler Audio line-up. But don't worry, there is a new and improved Trinity 3 4 ohm version on the way from Hustler Audio.. Yes, you heard me correclty, an improved version above the FR88EX. I will however cost a lttle more.


in what ways will it be better? when will it be available?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I will see if I can get a date of release of the new Hustler driver.

From the info I have gotten the motor will be better and the cone will have a coating to help with some of the top end raggedness Zaph talked about.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Pics of the FR88 drivers fo rthose interested. I took some next to a HAT L4 and HAT L1 to show size. Its a shallow 3" mid and the construction is damn good for the price.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Thats a nice looking little driver. I too have been talking to a couple of guys from Hustler eagerly awaiting the new drivers. 

Nice pics...


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## monkeybutt (Oct 1, 2005)

Great pics. I especially like the one in the hand for sense of scale...makes me think I could fit these on my dash. :surprised:


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

monkeybutt said:


> Great pics. I especially like the one in the hand for sense of scale...makes me think I could fit these on my dash. :surprised:


Shouldnt be too difficult. 
At about an inch and a half mounting depth, they are a great candidate for A pillars.


Thanks for the props on the pics. The camera does all the work  
I really dig the coated frame and the aluminum cones. Very nice.


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## KARPE (Nov 9, 2008)

i got that same box in friday, i cant wait to mount em


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Are you guys planning on sealing these guys up in a pod or running them somewhat IB and venting them in the dash somewhere? The 4" I'm running in my dash right now are just sitting IB on a baffle firing up and sound great, but I was considering how I was going to mount these on-axis. Plan is to make a very small pod just big enough to hold the driver, then extend the pod through my dash cutout with a dampened PVC pipe to get a the recommended enclosure size. Like that idea better than making a .75 liter pod on my dash.


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## dsg74 (Jan 7, 2008)

vageta said:


> I was getting ready to pull the trigger on some Dayton RS100's for a dash pod build but after reading about these guys I'm going to try them out. I plan to pair them with the Tang-Band ceramic tweeters I've been reading about and run them active off of my Kenwood KAC-X4R. For a little over 100$ I think this budget setup will do fantastic. Have ID OEM's in doors right now but since these guys can play down to 200hz I'm going to throw in some Peerless SLS 6.5's. I'm really excited to see what a ~200$ budget 3 way can do.


I have very similar plans. I have two X4Rs waiting to be installed and was going to use the RS100s in the apillars active 250Hz to 5000Hz to start. The Founteks may be a little better for me, both sound and size wise. Still no clue on the tweeters but I might go with the LPG 26NAFMs. They are on my short list and their look kinda matches the FR88. Put some SLS8s or more likely RS225s in the doors powered by the second X4R bridged and it should be a real good front stage that won't break the bank.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

dsg74 said:


> I have very similar plans. I have two X4Rs waiting to be installed and was going to use the RS100s in the apillars active 250Hz to 5000Hz to start. The Founteks may be a little better for me, both sound and size wise. Still no clue on the tweeters but I might go with the LPG 26NAFMs. They are on my short list and their look kinda matches the FR88. Put some SLS8s or more likely RS225s in the doors powered by the second X4R bridged and it should be a real good front stage that won't break the bank.


Yup, sounds like a plan. I've already got Peerless SLS8's in the doors to shore up the bottom end and a pair of HAT L1v1 tweeters. I was thinking I could try mounting these in test enclosures made of a wooden ring and clay as the "enclosure" to see what they'll sound like in a small sealed pod first.
After that, they can be mounted in the a-pillars either IB or sealed depending on which I like better. The shallow mounting depth really opens up the possibilities. One thing I'd be worried about with IB though is damage from over excursion. They already have a low power handling rating so I wonder if it would be safer to run them in a sealed pod.
Guess I'll see what kind of output they deliver before hitting the 'danger zone' and go from there.


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

One thing about the X4R's... unless you plan on using your head unit or another processor you won't be able to bridge the channels on 1 X4R for the midbass's. Channel A only has a highpass crossover while channel B has the lowpass. You could bridge Channel B on each amp for them but then it'll probably be difficult for you to run your mids bandpassed, again unless you have other processor options.

I will be running my tweeters on a seperate 2 channel amp using my head unit front output for T/A and xover. Then my X4R will run the midbass and midrange from the other set of outputs from head unit. Amp will deal with time alignment and xover combined with head unit.

If you only plan on crossing at 250hz then Fountek should be fine, especially if you plan on sealing it up. I was deadset on the RS100 until I saw the FR88-EX. Seems it will be able to reach 200hz if I seal it up and it will handle the midrange even better than the RS100 and do it in a much smaller package. Sounds like a win-win to me. I'll be running the Tang Band ceramic tweeter(1719s) that's been mentioned a lot lately. Supposed to have great off-axis respons and with the diffusor(whatever it's called) I can install it to disperse the sound horizontally and hopefully widen my stage even more.



> I have very similar plans. I have two X4Rs waiting to be installed and was going to use the RS100s in the apillars active 250Hz to 5000Hz to start. The Founteks may be a little better for me, both sound and size wise. Still no clue on the tweeters but I might go with the LPG 26NAFMs. They are on my short list and their look kinda matches the FR88. Put some SLS8s or more likely RS225s in the doors powered by the second X4R bridged and it should be a real good front stage that won't break the bank.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Sealed the FR88-EX is possible and you will be rewarded with a very versatile driver and will match with just about any tweeter of your choice.


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## vibrator (Mar 24, 2005)

to those that have heard this speaker; do you think that a tweeter is absolutely necessary?


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

I don't have it yet but my guess is it'd depend on install. If you could install them on-axis I think you'd be fine. If you installed if off-axis you'd get some beaming and probably have to EQ it a bit to tame the upper end.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm not really a fullrange person, but I like my midrange to play as high as possible. Now I will say this with a some EQing on the top end it will work very well as a fullrange unit on axis. I really like it with a great tweeter crossover over between 7-8khz.


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

I laid the Founteks against my A-pillars firing directly across ...

I think one could easily get away without a tweeter in this setup. On-axis they are a little bright up high ...

I'm putting them in the A-pillar this weekend ...


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

infiniti23 said:


> I laid the Founteks against my A-pillars firing directly across ...
> 
> I think one could easily get away without a tweeter in this setup. On-axis they are a little bright up high ...
> 
> I'm putting them in the A-pillar this weekend ...


Once you seal them up the brights is tamed a little, but with some EQing the topend is nice. And I agree once again, it will work well without a tweeter.


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## KARPE (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm gonna be mounting mine in the dash aimed at the windshield. Should I find a way to seal them in, or will they be alright IB after some EQ?


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

I have some 4" Rainbow's sitting IB in my stock dash locations firing up at the windshield and they do fine. Without the sealed enclosure you'll probably have to be careful with the power since the cone won't be as controlled. I'm not sure about your dash cutouts but mine have some room behind them that I could probably seal them up with a PVC pipe inserted in there. My plan is to make an on-axis dash pod though I haven't worked out the details yet.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm tellin' ya.. I'd love to hear a set of those in a build based on bikin's kickin' 8th civic sedan enclosures. Whata think Erin.. These FR's would fit there huh. I wonder how they'd do tweeterless if you built out the baffle with a stretched cloth front to angle them as close to on-axis as possible.


















This little guy would fit in there nice, ya think?


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> Yup, sounds like a plan. I've already got Peerless SLS8's in the doors to shore up the bottom end and a pair of HAT L1v1 tweeters. I was thinking I could try mounting these in test enclosures made of a wooden ring and clay as the "enclosure" to see what they'll sound like in a small sealed pod first.
> After that, they can be mounted in the a-pillars either IB or sealed depending on which I like better. The shallow mounting depth really opens up the possibilities. One thing I'd be worried about with IB though is damage from over excursion. They already have a low power handling rating so I wonder if it would be safer to run them in a sealed pod.
> Guess I'll see what kind of output they deliver before hitting the 'danger zone' and go from there.


Cool deal. My next "evolution" in car audio may go to the A-Pillar but I want to stand back and look at what other people do and find out how things go before I jump in. 

These 3" Founteks look like a distinct possibility and like Vangeta said, the Tang Band tweet might go well with it as a set.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Babs said:


> I'm tellin' ya.. I'd love to hear a set of those in a build based on bikin's kickin' 8th civic sedan enclosures. Whata think Erin.. These FR's would fit there huh. I wonder how they'd do tweeterless if you built out the baffle with a stretched cloth front to angle them as close to on-axis as possible.



I'd like to, but can't. lol. I love my scans too much. Though, Mark nearly talked me into it! He actually has my pillars on the way to him so maybe he can throw them in there and tell me what he thinks, lol.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Is this the guy that did your glass enclosures? Dude!!! I wanna set!  I'd do it myself but I'm too skeeered.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> I'd like to, but can't. lol. I love my scans too much. Though, Mark nearly talked me into it! He actually has my pillars on the way to him so maybe he can throw them in there and tell me what he thinks, lol.


I just might do that. The enclosure size should be fine. 

Off axis the FR88-ex roll of on the top end as you would expect it to. But it all depends on who is listening, mounting them off axis does help with the brightness on the top-end. 

The Fountek and the 12m are two different animals. The 12m is warm and accurate. The Fountek FR88-ex is detail and a little more open sounding. I'm a 12m fan also, but I do think either of these drivers can be used to create a amazing sound system.



Babs said:


> Is this the guy that did your glass enclosures? Dude!!! I wanna set!  I'd do it myself but I'm too skeeered.


No, he build them himself and did a great job, I'm just going to make them pretty for him and see if I can make a nice flush grille for them.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Sorry double post


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Here-I-Come said:


> No, he build them himself and did a great job, I'm just going to make them pretty for him and see if I can make a nice flush grille for them.


Well, I actually had a local friend make them. Guy did an awesome job and I wish I could take credit for them.

Yep, Mark is going to clean them up for me. Something I had been wanting to do for a long time and had intentions on doing next month but things are a real mess here lately with my father in law being in the hospital, who just happens to be my contractor... so things at the house have all but stopped, thus pushing us back another week and doing the pillars myself would mean I wouldn't be ready for my little BBQ. Not that I have a great system, but I at least want to have a stereo running. 

that should cover it, lol.

Mark, feel free to take pictures of it since it'll be your work and post them in a thread if you wish. You should be seeing them today or tomorrow. And the hertz are in their suitcase in the same box, lol.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Damn! I was hopin' to score a glass-job there. :/ Shiznit! 

I still dream of doing some craziness like these wide-banders or some 4" focal coax's or pvi210 comps just to be absolutely silly and adventurous. At least getting myself motivated.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Babs said:


> Damn! I was hopin' to score a glass-job there. :/ Shiznit!
> 
> I still dream of doing some craziness like these wide-banders or some 4" focal coax's or pvi210 comps just to be absolutely silly and adventurous. At least getting myself motivated.


Now if you would like I would be glad to do them for you, its not a problem what so ever. just Let me know.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

hey, don't make his better than mine!!! 


Actually, Mark, I suggested he talk to you about it earlier after reading his reply. Hopefully he can get your help with that. That spot is a great spot to use if you're into dash mounted drivers, imo.


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## RowJoe (Nov 14, 2008)

Sweet Jesus, those FR88s looks better every time I see them! Need to read more reviews about them, though.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

Babs said:


> I'm tellin' ya.. I'd love to hear a set of those in a build based on bikin's kickin' 8th civic sedan enclosures. Whata think Erin.. These FR's would fit there huh. I wonder how they'd do tweeterless if you built out the baffle with a stretched cloth front to angle them as close to on-axis as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's my plan anyway...haven't finalized the driver yet but runnin' the Seas Neos on-axis in that spot (defrost vent opening) with a tweeter pod a la Glenn's inspiration:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...justable-easily-replaceable-tweeter-pods.html

(cap'n doesn't know it yet, but he'll be helping me glass the pods down the road )


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

I've got my Fountek FR88 mounted in the A-pillar in my G35 with the Dynaudio MD102. Just got them up there today in the baffle. No enclosure yet, just wanted to do a test ...

Fountek crossed at 8 khz. Very smooth transition with the Dyn. However, it they could easily be run full range off-axis. On-axis, I think they'd be a little bright ....

They are firing directly across at one another ...

Simply amazing. I cannot imagine why I ever run drivers in the kicks ...


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

infiniti23 said:


> I've got my Fountek FR88 mounted in the A-pillar in my G35 with the Dynaudio MD102. Just got them up there today in the baffle. No enclosure yet, just wanted to do a test ...
> 
> Fountek crossed at 8 khz. Very smooth transition with the Dyn. However, it they could easily be run full range off-axis. On-axis, I think they'd be a little bright ....
> 
> ...


Sedan or coupe and what year and pix please


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

03 sedan ... let me finish them this weekend, then i will provide pics ...


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

infiniti23 said:


> 03 sedan ... let me finish them this weekend, then i will provide pics ...


Excellent.

I have an 06 sedan and would be interested in doing something like this in my pillars.

Approx. what size is it's enclosure and what did you use to build it with? Fiberglass?

THanks


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

Will be made with a wooden baffle, fleece, and resin ...

enclosure should be about 30-35 cubic inches, but technically it will be semi-IB, as it'll vent into the A-pillar into the dash and headliner ...


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

infiniti23 said:


> I've got my Fountek FR88 mounted in the A-pillar in my G35 with the Dynaudio MD102. Just got them up there today in the baffle. No enclosure yet, just wanted to do a test ...
> 
> Fountek crossed at 8 khz. Very smooth transition with the Dyn. However, it they could easily be run full range off-axis. On-axis, I think they'd be a little bright ....
> 
> ...



Glad you like them, yet 6-8khz seems to be a magic number for these units if you want to use a tweeter with them. As I stated before get you self great tweeter as you have, cross it at that point and it is magic. can't wait to hear your opinion when you finish your build and to see pics.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

infiniti23 said:


> Will be made with a wooden baffle, fleece, and resin ...
> 
> enclosure should be about 30-35 cubic inches, but technically it will be semi-IB, as it'll vent into the A-pillar into the dash and headliner ...


Mate, would love to hear your thoughts on a possibility of running these without a tweeter.

Thanks.


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

Mless5 said:


> Mate, would love to hear your thoughts on a possibility of running these without a tweeter.
> 
> Thanks.


Listened to this about an hour. I am using the Fountek with Dynaudio MD102 ...

Was listening to some Keith Urban and Hinder ...

The casual listener would not be able to tell the difference between just the Fountek, and the Fountek/Dyn combo ...

I noticed subtle differences, but the driver could easily be tuned in as a stand alone full range ...

FWIW, I could get the Fountek to play down to about 175 hz effectively. A little output below, but not much. Power was 80 W, it handled it no problem for 1 hour at about 50-60% output of the HU.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Niiice! Do share your setup please, I am 99% convinced I can make them work with my new Morel 8" midbass.

Thanks.


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

Mless5 said:


> Niiice! Do share your setup please, I am 99% convinced I can make them work with my new Morel 8" midbass.
> 
> Thanks.


Absolutely they will work with the Morel 8", I am using them with Dynaudio 9" ....

I can play the Dyn's all the way up to 400 hz and it sounds fine, the Fountek can play significantly lower into the 200-250 range with ease ...


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> (cap'n doesn't know it yet, but he'll be helping me glass the pods down the road )



:laugh:

No problem man, Im sure we can bang them out. I'll likely be doing mine in the next couple weeks here too. As soon as Im done on the doors, the pillars wil be next.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

****, my stock Boston Acoustics system consists of 6x9's in the back running full range, 6x9's crossed over around 200hz or so in the front doors and 3.5" fullrange in the dash playing from I'd guess 200hz on up, and I don't really miss a tweeter that much, and I'm sure the Fountek have better top end then the OEM Boston 3.5's.

I could easily see how it could work for most music, especially when driving. Critical listen might reveal the absense of a tweeter with some music, but nothing to lose sleep over I wouldn't think.

Like I've said before adding a small neo tweeter would be so easy and cheap to do that I would just try the fullrange and see what you think, if you really missed that last octave, then add the tweeters.


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## infiniti23 (Dec 4, 2008)

89grand said:


> ****, my stock Boston Acoustics system consists of 6x9's in the back running full range, 6x9's crossed over around 200hz or so in the front doors and 3.5" fullrange in the dash playing from I'd guess 200hz on up, and I don't really miss a tweeter that much, and I'm sure the Fountek have better top end then the OEM Boston 3.5's.
> 
> I could easily see how it could work for most music, especially when driving. Critical listen might reveal the absense of a tweeter with some music, but nothing to lose sleep over I wouldn't think.
> 
> Like I've said before adding a small neo tweeter would be so easy and cheap to do that I would just try the fullrange and see what you think, if you really missed that last octave, then add the tweeters.



Well, think about it. How much musical information is there really about 10-12 khz anyway?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

As I have said before I not really a fullrange guy, but the FR88-ex can be use easily as a fullrange. I still say chose a quality tweeter as infiniti has in the MD102 you will be golden with this unit. You can cross nearly as high as you desire. Its a very detail and open unit, a little on the bright said at times in the upper midrange, but I'm working on something that will............that!:bulb::idea3::idea: :curtain: :thumbsup::gossip::thinking2:


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

I remembered seeing a post about a quick and easy tweeter mount using PVC pipe caps and decided to see if this is possible with the Fountek FR88. It is nearly a perfect fit. The FR88EX outside diameter fits inside the 3" PVC cap with 1-2 mm gap. An MDF ring can easily be fashioned to support the driver and because the FR88EX fits inside the cap, the ring can be recessed and the driver flush mounted. The ring could also be made out of 3" PVC pipe but I think the edge of the pipe will have to be chamfered the same way Zaph recommends cutting a hole in a MDF baffle.

The FR88EX needs about 1.3 liters for a sealed box with Qtc of .707. The -3 dB point will be about 150 Hz. Achieving this with a 3" diameter pipe will require a 3" PVC pipe coupler be used to extend the 3" PVC cap. The cap by itself is only about 0.38 liters. The down side to making this size enclosure is that the speaker pod ends up being about 6.5 " long. This will probably be easy to fit in a large SUV or PU but may look bad in smaller cars. On my 2001 Pathfinder, this size pod will not fit between the A Pillar, the dash, and the windshield on the driver's side. It will stick out beyond the edge of the shroud above the gauge panel. The good news is that this will probably reduce windshield reflections and reinforce direct sound arrival. I have not built a pod yet and don't know how it will look. I have not calculated volume required for a Qtc of 1.0 but this may result in a smaller pod that is easier to fit. 

Some day, I will fabricate custom A pillars with pods integrated into them. For now, I am going to do something quick and easy with PVC pipe caps to see how these babies will sound. Pics to follow but it will not be for at least a week. Full time job and 2 kids means I fit this work in when everyone is asleep and I have energy.


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## KARPE (Nov 9, 2008)

I'd LOVE to see some pics of your PVC adventure with these little guys.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

mda185 said:


> I remembered seeing a post about a quick and easy tweeter mount using PVC pipe caps and decided to see if this is possible with the Fountek FR88. It is nearly a perfect fit. The FR88EX outside diameter fits inside the 3" PVC cap with 1-2 mm gap. An MDF ring can easily be fashioned to support the driver and because the FR88EX fits inside the cap, the ring can be recessed and the driver flush mounted. The ring could also be made out of 3" PVC pipe but I think the edge of the pipe will have to be chamfered the same way Zaph recommends cutting a hole in a MDF baffle.
> 
> The FR88EX needs about 1.3 liters for a sealed box with Qtc of .707. The -3 dB point will be about 150 Hz. Achieving this with a 3" diameter pipe will require a 3" PVC pipe coupler be used to extend the 3" PVC cap. The cap by itself is only about 0.38 liters. The down side to making this size enclosure is that the speaker pod ends up being about 6.5 " long. This will probably be easy to fit in a large SUV or PU but may look bad in smaller cars. On my 2001 Pathfinder, this size pod will not fit between the A Pillar, the dash, and the windshield on the driver's side. It will stick out beyond the edge of the shroud above the gauge panel. The good news is that this will probably reduce windshield reflections and reinforce direct sound arrival. I have not built a pod yet and don't know how it will look. I have not calculated volume required for a Qtc of 1.0 but this may result in a smaller pod that is easier to fit.
> 
> Some day, I will fabricate custom A pillars with pods integrated into them. For now, I am going to do something quick and easy with PVC pipe caps to see how these babies will sound. Pics to follow but it will not be for at least a week. Full time job and 2 kids means I fit this work in when everyone is asleep and I have energy.



Man, you just gave me a crazy idea!!! I know how to implement my new 8" morels into my doors AND get the proper enclosure for a full range!


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

Any more comments about these drivers from the people that are currently running them? I'm thinking about swapping them with my PPB 4" Peerless mids because they are a lot smaller.


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

I've been waiting for some reviews as well but seems no one has installed them yet. I ordered mine today though so hopefully by next weekend I'll have them installed and have some preliminary thoughts on them. Also have some of the Tang Band ceramic tweeters and some Peerless SLS 6.5's coming so it'll be a full 3 way review. A ~200$ 3 way review nonetheless.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Im just waiting for some rings to arrive for them and Ill work on testing and give a review.


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## qpwoeiruty999 (May 15, 2007)

vageta said:


> I've been waiting for some reviews as well but seems no one has installed them yet. I ordered mine today though so hopefully by next weekend I'll have them installed and have some preliminary thoughts on them. Also have some of the Tang Band ceramic tweeters and some Peerless SLS 6.5's coming so it'll be a full 3 way review. A ~200$ 3 way review nonetheless.


OMG!!! You stole my plan!!! Looking forward to your review!!!


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## vageta (Oct 11, 2006)

Yep I don't think you can get a better 3 way setup for this kind of money, in fact my hunch is it will sound a hell of a lot better than the price tag would indicate. I kind of wanted to prove to myself that I didn't have to invest 1k$ to buy top of the line speakers to get great sound. This is after all what the spirit of this site was created for. Lately it seems like less and less are actually worried about budget and buying top of the line everything. I'm taking it on as a challenge to get the best sound for the least money which is why I scooped up the Clarion deck and the Kenwood amp, both of which perform well above their cost.


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

So does everyone still love these little guys as I'm considering dropping the cash for them as I'm currently half way through reconfigering my system. Current set up is DLS UR 3 ways with tweeter and dome mid in the A pillar and mid bass in the door, but I'm working on some floor enclosures for some Morel HCW8" midbasses or the Mpyre Audio 65M's I have, and they will be located firing straight up from the floor just in front of the seat, I've seen this done a few times and it seems to work quite well. But because I'm going floor mounted I need to drop my crossover point down to the 200-300hz range to prevent localization and the DLS Domes won't handle a xover that low so i'm on the hunt for a nice cone mid that can handle 200hz up to 6-8k. I've got two other options here but I have my reservations about how good they'll actually be. I'm quite happy with how the DLS mids sound as they do have a very natural tone but they just won't get low enough.

The mids I currently have here to try are 
Tang Band W3-782's ebay OEM models, similar to these but with stamped metal frame Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver | tangband tb neo newband tangband-41108 I've heard these in BMWTurbo's (Ben) car and although they're nice and have great top end extension, I'm worried they won't play low enough and they seem to have a oddness to my ears that I can't place, plus the cones discolour quite badly when exposed to sun light. So I think I'll just use them in some computer speakers.

I also have a set of 
Audax HP080MO http://www.hautparleur.fr/_audax/hp080m0.jpg which I got because I picked them up for only $10 so figured they were worth a try for that price. But I don't think they'll be suitable as I think there FR is a little ragged past 2-3k.

Now I'm limited to a maximum cutout dia of 82mm and outside dia of about 110mm, so at some point I was on the Australian importer for CSS site and noticed he also has the Mark Audio drivers and the Alpair 5 is an exact fit where my DLS's came out, so they had me very interested but I checked the Zaph site and he has tested the Alpair 6 and didn't seem very impressed. So I checked his review of the FR88EX and he seems quite impressed and they'll fit in my current A pillars, my other option is the the Peerless 830986 which has always been a favorite of people for this type of setup.

So now I'm stuck between the 
FR88EX
Alpair 5
Peerless 830986

So far the Alpair sound compromised in there performance according to Zaph
The FR88EX's seem to be leading the race as from all reports they are great little drivers but then, are they much better then 830986 which is a top performer especially in the low end.


So guys which way would you be recommending?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Luke352 said:


> So now I'm stuck between the
> FR88EX
> Alpair 5
> Peerless 830986
> ...


The 830986 was my and still one of my favorite 3" drivers. Very nice sounding and performs above its price point. The FR88-ex is more detail and plays higher cleaner and plays just as low as the 830986, but not quite as low as the RS100. But either will serve you will.


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

I'm having a real hard time trying to decide between the two, I think the Alpair is out of the running due to me not being able to really find any reviews on it. Going of looks alone I think I prefer the 830986 as the FR88EX looks a little tacky to me. If as you say the Fountek is more detailed then maybe I would prefer the Peerless as although I love detail I'm not a huge fan of ultra critical detail, and I'm not sure whether the sharp sound that I'm imagining the Fountek making would blend into my Morel Midbass and DLS tweeters. So maybe the Peerless will have that sweeter more rounded yet still very dominant midrange I like. What I like about the DLS mid is it's still very detailed without being critical yet it still has a nice depth and dominance through it's range. Whichever one I choose it has to be able to operate in my A pillars which is an area of about .5 litre which vents down into the dash, and I'll probably stuff in behind it to help control reflections.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Luke352 said:


> I'm having a real hard time trying to decide between the two, I think the Alpair is out of the running due to me not being able to really find any reviews on it. Going of looks alone I think I prefer the 830986 as the FR88EX looks a little tacky to me. If as you say the Fountek is more detailed then maybe I would prefer the Peerless as although I love detail I'm not a huge fan of ultra critical detail, and I'm not sure whether the sharp sound that I'm imagining the Fountek making would blend into my Morel Midbass and DLS tweeters. So maybe the Peerless will have that sweeter more rounded yet still very dominant midrange I like. What I like about the DLS mid is it's still very detailed without being critical yet it still has a nice depth and dominance through it's range. Whichever one I choose it has to be able to operate in my A pillars which is an area of about .5 litre which vents down into the dash, and I'll probably stuff in behind it to help control reflections.


The Fountek is not Critical sounding and in no way sharp sounding, when I say detailed, I mine accurate. When you say Critical sounding if you mean more revealing and open sounding I would have to say yes, then you are correct, but Sharp no. The both have similar sound as they both use a metal cone.

If you what a less revealing midrange the peerless maybe a better choice. Less revealing with the 830986 is not a bad thing in no way. Great little driver, this one of my Favs.


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

Luke352 said:


> I think the Alpair is out of the running due to me not being able to really find any reviews on it.


Try DIYaudio.com for Mark Audio info. The owner even posts over there.


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks for that guys, I'm thinking of laying down the cash for both as I'm in Australia and if I'm going to pay about $40 USD postage to get one set sent over, then I may as well fork out for the other set of drivers since postage to get both sets sent out is only a couple bucks extra.

I did some more reading on the Alpair 5 and although I found a bit more info mostly positive most of it was in regards to people using them in Horns and small vented enclosures, there is no info on using them in a car so I think I'll leave them alone for now.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

captainobvious said:


> Im just waiting for some rings to arrive for them and Ill work on testing and give a review.


Review has been posted. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ws/62906-fountek-fr88-3-fullrange-driver.html



.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I just want to clear something up. About the Fountek FR88-ex and the Hustler Audio X3 Fullrange units. 

They are both designed and built by Hustler Audio, but are total different drivers. The X3 is small and thinner and is more of a wide-band 3" Tweeter is if you will, that plays very low, even more so with the X2. The new Trinity 3 and the FR88-ex is more closely related as they use the same basket, but different motors and cones. The FR88-ex is a aluminium cone where the New Trinity is a Titanium/Magnesium Blend cone with a upgraded motor.

Here are some photo of the X3:

X3

























FR88-ex (Photos from Captainobvious review thread)




























As you can see the X3 is a bit smaller.


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## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> I hear you. But having already done all of the fiberglass work for my mids/tweets I'm not about to go back and do it again just to test out the FR88's.  I'm sure someone local to me will buy some that I can listen to.


You can hear mine on axis in the pillars in a car that just so happens to be the same make and model as your own in about 2 weeks


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Mark, do you know when the new Trinity driver is out ?

How does the Hustler Spirit driver compare ?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

andy335touring said:


> Mark, do you know when the new Trinity driver is out ?
> 
> How does the Hustler Spirit driver compare ?


The Trinity is currently in produce and on on the market in Asia and some European countries and match with the Enigma High-resonance won a few first place trophy in competition last couple of weekends in Japan and Indonesia. I will have my first shipment in about a mouth and a half, shipping is a little slow coming via sea.

The spirit is not in production as the New Trinity is a better driver. The website is currently being updated.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Here-I-Come said:


> The Trinity is currently in produce and on on the market in Asia and some European countries and match with the Enigma High-resonance won a few first place trophy in competition last couple of weekends in Japan and Indonesia. I will have my first shipment in about a mouth and a half, shipping is a little slow coming via sea.
> 
> The spirit is not in production as the New Trinity is a better driver. The website is currently being updated.



Mark thanks for the helpful info and pics as usual.


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks, PM sent


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

norcalsfinest said:


> You can hear mine on axis in the pillars in a car that just so happens to be the same make and model as your own in about 2 weeks


I'll take you up on that. Thanks bro.

Zach


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## SpenceSTL (Jul 20, 2009)

Here-I-Come said:


> The 830986 was my and still one of my favorite 3" drivers. Very nice sounding and performs above its price point. The FR88-ex is more detail and plays higher cleaner and plays just as low as the 830986, but not quite as low as the RS100. But either will serve you will.


How about composure at higher volume? Would you say that either has an appreciable advantage over the other in sounding good while playing loud?


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