# Help With Tuning DSP



## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

So I've been doing this car audio stuff for well over a decade, dabbled into active with a Pioneer 80prs when they first came out, was happy with what I had at the time. But I've bought a TWK 88 DSP to really start getting control over my current system. I have a Pioneer 4200 deck, to the TWK 88, to a JL JX360/4 which is running Audison 1.1 and 6.5 components active. I'm pretty sure my crossovers are under control low passing the mid at 2500 and high passing the tweeter at 2800.

Using a UMIK-6 with REW doing 50+ ave sweeps per speaker to set everything up. Long story short is I have no one around me in Indianapolis that I know of into this stuff like me and I don't know what way to go to tune this more. I've started over 20 times and have the system at the pictured response which I know is nowhere near where it needs to be. I know i need to work on some peaks some more, Red line was pre EQ, Blue is after making some adjustment. 


Each speaker isn't to bad by itself but altogether they've boosted a bunch of frequency's I need to work on. Trying to keep this short, something is hurting my ears and i can't figure out what frequency, noticed the S and F's in Chris Stapleton's Fire Away really did it. I have the amp gain on tweeters at less than 25% of what the amp is capable of doing and still have gains in the TUN down 10db, much less and overall sound isn't great so I don't want to keep turning them down. Just looking for some feedback. Have watched hours of tuning videos and read plenty of articles on here, will keep working on it this week as time allows.

Current TUN setting attached as well.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Look up jazzi’s tuning guide. It’s a free download. 
Also look up skizers tuning video. 
Frequency that hurts my ears are 4000 & 8000. 
These two videos should help get you on the right track


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

That big rise you have at 3000hz and up is probably what’s doing it. Try to at least match it to your 2000hz level. That should help quite a bit.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Had not seen Jazzi's setup. Will try this tomorrow and report back. Thanks for the input.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

So.. I've spent another 5+ hours messing around, I've got a current setup that is ok but its still not great. I feel like no matter what I do in REW the result varies greatly. So with the following where should I put the target line? Two examples attached. 

















Also an example of one of my mids. Should the target line be higher or lower. Are the settings in the Target Settings tab correct on these as well?


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

If it helps here is the total response I have with all settings at 0db.









Here's a download link for my current REW measurements pictured if anyone wants to help play along.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvtwYRgOxBTTvWlI1LCuHIk34wEz

No matter what I do it either sounds like something's missing or the tweeters are too loud. I know the tweeters are a lot louder at 0db but I have the left at around -8.5db and right at -7 I believe to have it just ok to listen to.

Edit: I'm currently aiming for the 1/2 of Whitledge curve. Link below. https://1drv.ms/f/s!AvtwYRgOxBTTvW3_jpp9AvRRBYYF


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## lincoln88 (Sep 24, 2016)

Your tweeters look like they still need to come down a bit. I would listen to a familiar song, link the tweeters if possible and turn them down until things sound right. 

It might be helpful at that point to do a capture in REW with all drivers unmuted, to see if they are playing nice together.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Ill remeasure tomorrow with tweeter levels matched. Graph above was at 0db with all eq flat.


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## steelr (Sep 4, 2016)

I just bought a TWK 88 and I will be doing this same thing in the near future. I am in Madison, which is about 2 hours south of you so I may be in contact when it comes time to get everything going and see how it turned out for you.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Would be happy meet up. Might be taking my camper down to the river next month actually. Love Clifty Falls. Waiting to hear back from family on plans.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

I'm just outside of Louisville Kentucky. I'm not sure how much of a drive that would be for you, but I'm happy to help in person too.

From the graphs you've posted, it looks like the tweeters and the midbass drivers are not being matched to the same overall loudness. Like lincoln88 mentioned, try turning the tweeters down a few dB overall and see what happens. I also think the 2-4khz region sounds the most offensive to me, and I purposefully tune a mild dip in that area for my car.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks Jazzi, spent some more time last night working on the EQ settings and created a new set. This morning I set it and used the RTA to measure each sides mid and tweeter together and believe I got the level's matched and am pleasantly surprised with the current settings. I don't know if I've been setting tweeter level by ear or what but it just clicked this morning. This picture is current response using previous 0db response and Jazzi's curve then adjusting the tweeter level. Plan to redo measurements and EQ now that it seems to be going better.


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## lincoln88 (Sep 24, 2016)

That looks better. 

That dip in the mid/tweeter region might be a phase issue. It's worth checking out. 

500hz could come down, but it's hard to tell without the sub included.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

120-300 really needs work...


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Got this far tonight before calling it quits. Big snow day tomorrow so may end up working on it some more. Haven't had a chance to really crank it for a while but it sounds good, might be lacking a little mid bass for my ears.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Increase vertical resolution 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

This is what I started with before eq, just level matched. 


















I flipped polarity on both tweeters all said and done. The dip around the crossover gets worse if leaving them all the same polarity.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Cut the peaks at 500, 700 & 1khz and you'll suddenly notice a lot more bass. Then go back and trim off the 125-300 range.


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## SubOptimal (May 6, 2017)

Is that still half Whitledge target curve?
If so, that's a target for each stereo channel Left+Sub, not overall response.
I would say you have way to much sub and the sub to midbass XO needs work.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Getting ready to go sit in the truck for a while. Going off the two pictures below, where should my target line be set? the tweeter obviously peaks around 2-5k. How much should I be cutting that? Also are my settings in target settings correct? wasn't sure if I should mess with HF Fall Slope or leave it alone.
Pic 1 - should I aim the target lower to get the whole range at or above the line?









Or pic 2 which is higher overall and everything over 7k is below the target but not cutting as much to start?









I've used up all 10 bands of par. eq on most of the channels on the last total response I posted and don't want to keep moving things around. I can cut the tweeter as much as in want since I have over 10 decibels of headroom above what the mid is capable of.

Edit: so I figured out once I get it close I can use the decks EQ to cut as a whole since I can’t link channels on the TWK. Will keep messing with it.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

I'll try to keep from rambling.
Started from fresh today. Measured each speaker and did 3-4 rounds of eq and remeasuring than 2 or so together before stopping. First up I believe I've gotten the tweeters pretty spot on with the target line +-1db it looks like.









As for the mids, I did around 5 rounds of auto eq and then started messing with it while watching the RTA live and this was as close as I could get it... not good I know.









Right mid before and after eq









Left mid before and after EQ









And here is the system as a whole, not sure why the dip between sub and mid yet. Currently have the sub down firing but think I'm going to flip it to see if the response is smoother.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

And here are all of my current settings in the TUN software.
Left tweeter









Right tweeter









Left Mid









Right mid









Sub


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

If this were my car I'd give some more room between the mid and the tweet by either lowering the crossover frequency on the mid or raising the crossover frequency on the tweet (or both). Seems like they are packed pretty tight together. Then lower the tweets by at least 5 more dB by ear to whatever sounds good.

I also prefer a bit more output in the 80-160ish octave than most people, and seeing you cut all that out with this huge sub output sticking out like a sore thumb probably sound pretty bad. My prefered curve is very similar to Whitledge in that it's basically a diagonal line getting quieter and frequency increases, lol.

Ignore any big dips like the one at 400hz. That's likely the center console or some other artifact from the "room".


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

So maybe try 2800HP for the tweeters and 2250LP for the mid?
Tried matching the db level in the RTA for the sub and the mid but the sub still showed high altogether. Think my mic gets a little inaccurate with everything going. 

Maybe I should try to use the regular Whitledge instead of 1/2 if to start?


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Looks like you're learning pretty quick that this can be a little more complicated than it looks  Good on you though, for sticking with it.

If you're going to use my spreadsheet to generate target curves, please use matching high-pass and low-pass frequencies for each pair of drivers. So make sure your midrange and tweeter are both using the same number, whatever you choose (2.5khz, 3.2khz, etc).

Also, you have a couple settings incorrect in the EQ panel of REW. If you don't correct these numbers, then the target curves you generate in my spreadsheet will get an additional slant added to them by the EQ panel. See the settings below.

Last, you might be chasing the noise a bit. Try setting your graphs similar to how I show below. You want a bit of smoothing so you're not able to see every tiny peak and valley, and you also want the vertical and horizontal scales to be consistent so you can get a better feel for the changes and also share them in a format most people are familiar with. See the other photo below.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks, started fresh today. Taking a break but have gotten a bit closer and have it sounding pretty good so far. Still working on the peaks at 500hz and 680hz as well as 125-400hz. Had to turn my amp gain to 0 for the tweeters and still have them around -10db in the DSP but they sound good. Messed with the sub a little bit but going to save that for last. Pic of where I am so far today..


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

I have a suspicion the slant many people put in their tunes from around 1khz and up (like yours) is not the best idea. I think many people hear something harsh in the treble and assume the entire tweeter needs to be lowered or roll off gently like that. I have had wonderful success by searching for the offending frequency range by boosting individual bands until it sounds the worst, then cutting those bands a little bit. This usually results in the 1-4khz range having a shallow but wide valley.

I haven't tested this idea with too many other people, so take it as an anecdote, but I'm curious how it goes if other people try it. You can see what I mean by viewing the Jazzi curve in my spreadsheet.

In your particular case, I also think that blue line is slanted from the settings in the EQ module and you might want to revisit that from my previous post. I assume you did this tuning before seeing the settings suggestions I posted.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Justin Zazzi said:


> I have a suspicion the slant many people put in their tunes from around 1khz and up (like yours) is not the best idea. I think many people hear something harsh in the treble and assume the entire tweeter needs to be lowered or roll off gently like that. I have had wonderful success by searching for the offending frequency range by boosting individual bands until it sounds the worst, then cutting those bands a little bit. This usually results in the 1-4khz range having a shallow but wide valley.
> 
> I haven't tested this idea with too many other people, so take it as an anecdote, but I'm curious how it goes if other people try it. You can see what I mean by viewing the Jazzi curve in my spreadsheet.
> 
> In your particular case, I also think that blue line is slanted from the settings in the EQ module and you might want to revisit that from my previous post. I assume you did this tuning before seeing the settings suggestions I posted.


Will recheck it all when I feel up to sitting through it again. Hoping once I get it going right I'll try your curve as well as JBL's to see what I actually like the best. Will make sure those setting are at 0db as well. Couldn't tell which was right and don't know what I used.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Justin Zazzi said:


> I have had wonderful success by searching for the offending frequency range by boosting individual bands until it sounds the worst, then cutting those bands a little bit. This usually results in the 1-4khz range having a shallow but wide valley.
> 
> I haven't tested this idea with too many other people, so take it as an anecdote, but I'm curious how it goes if other people try it. You can see what I mean by viewing the Jazzi curve in my spreadsheet.


So I started over with your curve. Ended up having to set the HP on the tweeter to around 3k to get the right acoustic cutoff slope. Have to say I don’t hate it, lol. Think I ended up having too deep of a dip in the 2-4k range but will get it tuned right and report back this week.


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

Subd. Exploring a new curve myself. Gotta say, I've usually gone with significantly more total roll off from low end to high, usually 25+ db total.. but still trying to get something I'm happy with so.. 

Edit, guess I didn't realize sub was ommited on last few graps.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

I think my current goal is to make a custom curve based off of Jazzis but start with the 20-250 range a little higher leading into the rest of his curve. Definitely notice a little more air in the music then I was getting with the slopes that rolled off gradually which I like.


I’ve messed around with the sub a little but didn’t want to do too much until I got the front comps somewhere I was happy with. Also my UMIK-1 mic seems to add a roll off that’s no present if I measure at too high of volume with the whole system.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Two Pages of no Content?????


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Subbing


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