# Trying to decide how to get started in home audio



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Im thinking of getting a HT receiver (Denon X2000) with Audyssey XT. Since it will only be about 95w per channel 8ohm i was thinking about the benefits of IB. I want to have strong stereo fronts as well as surround speakers (not IB). Anyone have advice for a beginner in home audio and I don't want to spend thousands.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

IB as in Infinate Baffle? 

I have the Denon 4308ci with 140 watts per channel but it still doesn't seem enough. My tower subs all have built in amps so the reciever is only powering the high drivers. If you want accurate sound AND loud you really do need to have an enclosure. Maybe if you want to buy an inexpensive amp just for the mains that would work. As for the surrounds the internal power should be fine. I would suggest the Adcom GFA555, old school 200wpc at only $379 buy it now.

Adcom GFA555 2 Channel Power Amplifier 0811900010910 | eBay


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

It would be too difficult to build an Infinite Baffle stereo setup using raw drivers and make it sound good? And I assume this is why I see people only ever doing IB with subs in home audio.

I do like the idea of using a separate stereo amplifier, but it will quickly take me over a grand. I'm too noob with home audio to throw money at it right away because I don't even know what I will like/want.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

the hardest part will be getting the crossovers right. you'll either have to build your own passives or go with an active crossover. 

If you want to spend money on an external amplifier, look at Crown's DriveCore series amps. Class D, very efficient, full of power and about 10lbs. These are what I'm using in my HT. 
Crown XLS 1500 Drivecore Stereo Power Amp XLS1500 Amplifier PROAUDIOSTAR | eBay

If you want an 'audiophile' type review for the Crown amps, here you go:
REVIEW – Crown XLS DriveCore Series Amplifier


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

Doesn't sound like it's too popular. I guess with power being .50¢ a watt it's might not be worth the hassle of the trial and error to make using an IB.

Those Crown should be more than enough power.

I think I will start with a 5.1 system. Anyone know anything about the monoprice in-wall speakers?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I actually tested one set of the poly cone version hometheatershack.com. Here's a link:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...oprice-polypropylene-2-way-wall-speakers.html

They're alright. If you're on a strict budget then they're a good option. But if you're looking for fidelity, I'd have a hard time recommending them.

Edit: I bought mine to go in the garage. For the $60 or so I paid for them, they're great. But, as I said, if you're looking for high-end, then I'd stay away. 

If you really are looking for good in-wall suggestions, I can throw you some. I did a whole lot of shopping for those last year for my living room as an HT but decided not to spend the money there and use it for a dedicated HT instead.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

Probably use this for TV/music/movies, in that order. I have a smallish budget for a HT build; any other in-walls that I should consider?

The Kevlar versions seem to get good reviews (mostly HT users): 8 Inches Kevlar 3-Way High Power In-Wall Speaker (Pair) - 100W Nominal, 200W Max - Monoprice.com

Reviews: Monoprice in-wall, in-ceiling speakers - Page 57

I am thinking the Dayton IB385 for sub. Was thinking this for $100 less than the Crown, Behringer NU1000 iNUKE 1000 Watt Power Amplifier | 248-6700


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

the behringers have gotten fair reviews from what I've read. tbh, I chose crown because they have more engineering prowess and are highly regarded for it. not to say behringer isn't good. 

To be fair, that Behringer you linked is about half the power per channel compared to the xls1500 I linked. That power may be plenty for you, depending on the driver sensitivity you have. Also, I've gotten my XLS1500's for about $250-260 each, used. 


Personally, I'd look at some of the offerings from DIYsoundgroup. I like what they have to offer. Their kits include passive components that account for baffle step which you wouldn't have, so you'd have to keep that in mind. 

You really do have a LOT of options if you want to go the DIY route. Shoot me a PM. Let's talk raw drivers there.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

also, when shopping amps, keep in mind their cooling. I've had a few amps, behringer and QSC, that get kind of loud when the fan kicks on. I've been using the Crown for klippel testing and the fan has yet to kick on. the qsc and behringers had the fan running almost constantly. that's one good thing about the Class D tech, which the iNuke has. But, check in to it before purchasing.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

I'll have to look into fan noise between brands. For the Behringer I found where people say the fans are loud, but offer 2 solutions (neither of which I like), 1) remove the fan, 2) replace the fan. So it seems they don't always need as much cooling for home use as the OEM fans can generate.

And I found a gut shot,








Behringer iNuke NU1000 Amp Amplifier Fan Swap How To w/ PICS - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

I had the older tech 200CI Uni-Q Kef's, and they sounded pretty good in the in-walls.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*

So I think I've got it narrowed down a little. I have changed the plan of the "ET" center from a bookcase design to something a little more open. Maybe something like this (but half of my room won't be blurry  ),









I hope to find this receiver on sale because it has XT/32 and I don't need airplay (or I can add a device to do that for $100): Onkyo TX-NR818

I'm not sure I want to build my own floorstanding speakers, but I may. I do like how they look in the picture above and they should have less reflection right next to them with this layout/design.

Center channel will match and I need to figure out the height to place it in comparison to the TV. THX website should help.

Rear surround...I'm still not close on a decision, but in walls are winning; partly because the shape of my room and because I don't have much space. If I can get 15 deg angle I think they will be about right.

I think I might go for 2 15", but the price for subs and power is not helping. I have about 50 cu ft I think I can use for them.

Anything I'm missing?


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Home theater is fun.

If you feel like you don't have enough power, you can make use of corner loading the subwoofer. If you want more, a tapped horn, transmission line, or even a vented box can get really loud on a couple hundred watts. A pair of 15" is pretty large by home theater standards for a small'ish room like you're talking about. Also, 95w per channel will play pretty loud if you buy or build something that is reasonably efficient.

For setup tips THX is good and Dolby Laboratories also has some great info. Here is their interactive setup guide.

Home Theater Surround Sound Speaker Placement and Setup Guide

If you can (I mean if you have the extra space), place the front speakers away from the wall at least a couple feet.


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## PsyCLown (May 17, 2013)

*Re: Disadvantages of using raw driver to custom build in wall speaker*



schmiddr2 said:


> It would be too difficult to build an Infinite Baffle stereo setup using raw drivers and make it sound good? And I assume this is why I see people only ever doing IB with subs in home audio.
> 
> I do like the idea of using a separate stereo amplifier, but it will quickly take me over a grand. I'm too noob with home audio to throw money at it right away because I don't even know what I will like/want.


Hmm, how about an Open Baffle design?

OBL11

Troels has some great designs up on his website, a lot of focus on HE.
Perhaps its not your cup of tea though?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

first off....you need to know that HT and car audio are like comparing hockey to football. Both are very exciting, but they have nothing to do with each other.

Don't go into HT with any preconceived ideas that you brought over from car audio.

But the advice is the same when you get started...go find yourself a decent HT store ( not best buy)...and listen to something...and talk to someone.

95-110 watts is the average size of a HT receiver...and the 4 main brands are denon, yamaha, onkyo and marantz. they are all way more alike than they are different. And the 2 main online discount sources would be accessories for less and 6th ave electronics. You really can't for too wrong here...i like marantz myself, but they are all good.

Dont bother with IB or OB for your first system...just choose a decent R L C set up..and nothing wrong with buying used speakers. In fact bikinpunk has a nice set of swan 's that would be a perfect anchor for any HT.

rear speakers are not terribly important...don't get too hung up there, just find something that fits your room and meets the WAF.

Subwoofer...this i where you can do your IB if you have the space for it. But i would suggest getting started with an nice AVR and RLC speaker set before even thinking about the sub.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

Like stated nothing wrong with used stuff. All of my speakers are from 1991-1993 and can be had for I would say up to $1,200 a pair.... And as low as $200 a pair. They rival new speakers costing $5-10,000 many people claim

Thus I highly suggest going the used route. Infinity kappa is what I have, 2 pairs of 8.1 v2's, pair of 5.1v2's and a pair of kappa video v2's. Polk audio, Boston acoustics and numerous other brands make great speakers which can be found for cheap. Some are easy to drive while others like my kappa 8.1's need lots of power. 

I would get a receiver which has the outputs which will allow you to run a external amp on every channel. Huge iimprovement here.... 

Agreed on the sub.... Get everything else setup and you could even add something smallish and used to get you by for a while.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Viggen said:


> I would get a receiver which has the outputs which will allow you to run a external amp on every channel. Huge iimprovement here....


that would be called a preamp


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Thank you all for the advice. I think I will be using the Onkyo 818 receiver and with 7.2 135w/channel I hope it lasts me forever.

I like bargains, so I will probably try to find a great deal on L R floorstanding speakers and a matching center. Since the receiver is a large chunk of change I would like to keep the cost low here, $3-400.

As for subs I think it's possible to use one 15", but my gut tells me to get 2.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

miniSQ said:


> that would be called a preamp


correct preamp output

i use a pre/pro for my HT setups. Bedroom has a Integra DHC 9.8 and the front room has their 80.1

Only have 1 amp for the bedroom so far, my old Adcom GFA-5500. Once of these days I will pick up a 3 channel amp to go along with it or a 5 channel and sell the 5500.

front room has parasound HCA-1500's...... allows me to bi-amp my main speakers. Been thinking of trying a wyredforsound amp, the ST-1000's so I can feed my main speakers more power  Just can't decide if I want to try class D....


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I would take the Geddes approach to subs- 3 or 4 spread out in the room to help with the modes.

Don't have to be massive subs either.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

My recommendations:

Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR828/818 (you definitely want XT32). Call AV Science for the best deal.

Speakers: Arx: Arx

If you want to step it up at some point, I can connect you with a builder in BC who builds some of the best sounding speakers I have heard. I have his line arrays and he is currently building me a center channel. Custom everything from veneer to binding post finish. And anything modest like MTM LCRs to extreme like 9 ft line arrays with 9 subs, 18 mids and 12 ribbons each. Amazing! Very reasonable pricing too, expect to spend a few thousand to get something that will rival $50k Wilsons,Genesis, etc. Nicest guy you will meet too.

Subs: Rythmik servo subs. Great alternative to OB/IB subs when space/budget is limited. If you do go DIY, go IB. OB will not pressurize your room the way a conventional sealed/ported sub will though it will sound extremely good. I had 6 OB 15's in my living room and it sounded great but I really love my Rythmik FV15HP for coming close to OB transparency but with more impact. IB will also play lower without needing as much eq, given that you are starting with the correct driver. Acoustic Elegance is one great option with their IB15 subs. Great deal if you can find them used too. I actually have a pair for sale but I think they are spoken for. Absolute monsters with heavenly performance: 

DIY sub amps: Crown XLS or Peavey IPR2

Speaker amps: I use some great older Rotels that I scored on Craigslist. Maybe run the receiver for now and research more of what you need as you go while saving up $$$. Amps retain value pretty well and good ones last a long time.

I will post more if I think of it.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I second the Rythmik subs. I've only used SVS in the past and would recommend them 1000% as well, but I think my next home sub will be a Rythmik.

For fronts I would recommend Ascend Acoustics, but I'm heavily biased  I've only used AV123 X-LS Encore, AV123 X-MTM, AV123 ELT525, and Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1. The Sierra-1's are something else  But of course, like with car audio, you will maximize your value by buying used, and there are always great deals to be found on audiogon and sometimes Craigslist.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

After reading some Geddes posts, it seems like the best option, but very impractical for my situation. He's using multiple bandpassed "low midbass subs" and still using a ultra LF sub. So basically it would be like adding 3-4 midbass, finding a place for them (construction in my case), adding amp(s), then crossovers, and tuning. I wish I could because it seems like it could be outstanding.


The Arx are going to be too expensive at over $1000 for R C L. And custom builds cost even more usually.

Would like to have a servo sub, but it will be a 1/4 of the price for me to IB a 15".

I'm leaning to the Crown Erin posted.



The Ascend Acoustics have me intrigued from reading on AVS about them. Seems the CBM-170 SE gets good reviews. I know I said floorstanding but I can make stands to put them on and they should fit the overall design.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Yea, per our discussion the other night, I think once you wrangle in exactly what your constraints are (install and budget), you'll be better served to pick the best products for you. 

Right now it seems we all are giving you a lot of different opinions and swaying you in different directions.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well I think you wouldn't need to do the ultra LF sub if your subs can do it to begin with. I haven't seen him make a post on DIYA saying to use a ULF sub...most have been 4 subs placed in a room.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

^ I've honestly not read his stuff in a long time (2 years, I'd say), but based on what I know and have dealt with, I'd say that Josh's assessment is right. The very low frequency stuff seems to be much less problematic than the mid-upper end of "low bass". IOW, in the home, 50-200hz seems to be more problematic. In the car, it's essentially an octave above that. Very generalized, but I think you know where I'm coming from.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I read about it here: Are three inexpensive subs better than one expensive sub-Dr. Earl Geddes Approach

And I don't mind to be swayed, because without any advice I was probably going to go down a crazy path. 

I like the extra power of the 818 and the XT32 (per reviews from people its a good step up), so to spend $600 instead of my intended $400 (X1000) seems to be a good way to prevent me from wanting to upgrade the receiver in a few years. If I get to a point where I want to spend $5K on home audio I will have a great receiver to put in another room. Win win.

I am still at a loss for what to choose for L C R. I think I want to build the cabinets so they match the ET-C and the bookshelf I plan to build. And since I don't know enough about crossover design I will be buying a kit, but which ones.

I still like the idea of two 15" IB, but with the Crown (1500 W @ 4 ohm) is it even necessary?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> After reading some Geddes posts, it seems like the best option, but very impractical for my situation. He's using multiple bandpassed "low midbass subs" and still using a ultra LF sub. So basically it would be like adding 3-4 midbass, finding a place for them (construction in my case), adding amp(s), then crossovers, and tuning. I wish I could because it seems like it could be outstanding.
> 
> 
> The Arx are going to be too expensive at over $1000 for R C L. And custom builds cost even more usually.
> ...


if you can build, and you want servo subs....check out Dannie Richie, and GR-Research. He has not nice choices...both closed and open baffle for RLC, plus he has a nice servo sub. He also has some closeouts.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

schmiddr2 said:


> And I don't mind to be swayed, because without any advice I was probably going to go down a crazy path.
> 
> I like the extra power of the 818 and the XT32 (per reviews from people its a good step up)
> 
> I still like the idea of two 15" IB, but with the Crown (1500 W @ 4 ohm) is it even necessary?


I was talking more about us all throwing out ideas without really having anything that can apply to your needs. If you can be specific with your requirements, we can give you better options. 

That's actually the receiver I was telling you about, that I have. Great receiver. It just doesn't do some of the things I personally want so I'm sending mine back. 

IB will net you more low freuqency response because it's being loaded off the wall... basically, the opposite of the baffle step issue. If you have a sub and the headroom on the amplifier with the DSP you need, you can apply a low end boost and get more output from your sub. But this really depends on the sub and the amp and assumes you have an EQ you can tailor (which the 818 might... I'd check). Otherwise, if you want low, you're gonna have to give up floor space. There's no way around it. F3 is F3, no matter how many subs you have, the best you'll do is double the output at F3 with each additional sub. Surface area > *.




miniSQ said:


> if you can build, and you want servo subs....check out Dannie Richie, and GR-Research. He has not nice choices...both closed and open baffle for RLC, plus he has a nice servo sub. He also has some closeouts.


I tested the FG-12. 
http://medleysmusings.com/rhythmik-audiogr-research-f12g-direct-servo-subwoofer/

TBH, I'm not sold on the servo design. But, the features on that amp (variable phase, adjustable alignment, and parametric) are pretty nice to have in a pre-loaded enclosure. The sub itself is good performer as well. That said, if you have an amp with DSP or something like Audyssey, it's hard for me to recommend spending $900 on that when you can buy a Dayton knock-down kit for $150-300 dependiong on size/sub (ie; 15" ultimax kit runs $260).


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## bottom3 (Jul 30, 2007)

Most the fan noise from the inuke Amp is from the internal plastic shroud not the fan. There are plenty of used pro-amps that are quiet, I have a mackie1400i with variable speed fan that works great, they go pretty cheap used, there's the k1, alesis, a500, audiosource ect. 
You could go with a few pairs of these
TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Components And Cabinet Kit Pair | 300-702
Two of these in wall
Dayton Audio IB385-8 15" Infinite Baffle Subwoofer | 295-455
One of these
Dayton Audio SPA250 250 Watt Subwoofer Amplifier | 300-803

This will be a great budget system, you don't need a huge sub amp for ib.

These are nice sounding as well, and you can buy them individually, however the tritrix will walk all over them down to 60hz
Overnight Sensation Speaker kit (Single) - Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> After reading some Geddes posts, it seems like the best option, but very impractical for my situation. He's using multiple bandpassed "low midbass subs" and still using a ultra LF sub. So basically it would be like adding 3-4 midbass, finding a place for them (construction in my case), adding amp(s), then crossovers, and tuning. I wish I could because it seems like it could be outstanding.
> 
> 
> The Arx are going to be too expensive at over $1000 for R C L. And custom builds cost even more usually.
> ...


For absolute maximum value, I would pick up a couple Stereo Integrity 15" or 18" subs during their closeout sale:
Stereo Integrity | Order Online

Then get a flatpack enclosure from Subwoofer Flat Packs DIY Sound Group

Then power them with a Crown XLS, Peavey IPR2 or Behringer iNuke.

For the best speaker value, I'd get four Arx A1B and one A3RX-C, then upgrade your fronts to A5's later on and you'll have 7.1  That's only $830 for the initial five. You could even upgrade your initial LCR to all MTM A3RX-C for $990. And rumor has it that they will release the A4, A6 and A7 models later this year. The A5 just won a big shootout among $1k speakers on Home Theater Forum - Home Theater Systems - HomeTheaterShack, pretty cool!

I am also a huge fan of Ascend but that would probably bust your budget.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

The GR look nice, I need to do some more research. I have finally decided to build the cabinets myself. I do prefer easy to build since I have lots of other projects going.

Are those SI that good? The SI BM is one well renown woofer. Never even knew they had HT subs. But the price is right.

I think I'm going to build a HTPC. For internet, downloaded movies, and recording TV. Anybody else doing this?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> The GR look nice, I need to do some more research. I have finally decided to build the cabinets myself. I do prefer easy to build since I have lots of other projects going.
> 
> Are those SI that good? The SI BM is one well renown woofer. Never even knew they had HT subs. But the price is right.
> 
> I think I'm going to build a HTPC. For internet, downloaded movies, and recording TV. Anybody else doing this?


i tried the whole HTPC thing with my mac mini hooked to my AVR, running PLEX. Total PIA...i think its still a few years away.

when i want to watch Netflix or your tube or rent a move thru Itunes i just click on my apple TV with my harmony remote and its done. The whole HTPC front end is still very clunky.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

schmiddr2 said:


> I think I'm going to build a HTPC. For internet, downloaded movies, and recording TV. Anybody else doing this?





miniSQ said:


> i tried the whole HTPC thing with my mac mini hooked to my AVR, running PLEX. Total PIA...i think its still a few years away.
> 
> when i want to watch Netflix or your tube or rent a move thru Itunes i just click on my apple TV with my harmony remote and its done. The whole HTPC front end is still very clunky.


I have been running either a dedicated or shared HTPC for like 8 years now (since composite and S-Video, kids) and I love it. I have have always had a PC within a cable-throw away from the TV. Video cards with HDMI (audio included) are cheap, one-cable solution. The only "clunky" part is having a keyboard/mouse near the couch. Logitech has a few solutions for this. 

Netflix I do run through my Bluray player, but Hulu and youtube, family business meetings, shared online living room shopping, etc are all run through the PC. The only thing I haven't done lately (yet) is DVR through the HTPC. Just haven't had time to get my capture card set up in this place, since all the shows I watch are on Hulu, and all the shows my wife watches are available on Netflix/illegal internet sites.

I definitely use the HTPC every day, and probably wouldn't watch TV without it. I haven't had cable in 5 years...

As for speakers, I have this center channel and it's quite nice: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=82-117-404 

If you watch newegg for a bit, the matching floor-stander pair comes down to $150 on a regular basis lately. I paid $60 for the center channel on sale a while back. The whole setup is last years model, so it goes on deep discount regularly. PatrickBateman did some testing on the BS21 a while back and had favorable things to say. It's certainly nice for the money.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I've been running a "htpc" since the days of s-video as well, although it's not really a true htpc because I don't run any media center software or have a tv tuner or anything. It's just my regular gaming pc hooked up to my plasma via hdmi through my receiver. 

I use it for mostly watching music videos on youtube and playing music through itunes, and then web browsing, other videos like ted talks and movie trailers, gaming, graphic design programs, etc. 

Super convenient and great for when friends are over. I was using separate logitech keyboard & mouse but I just got the logitech k400r all-in-one and love it. 

I use uverse for tv watching, but I couldn't imagine living without having a computer hooked up to my tv lol, if only for music videos.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

I don't do HTPCs anymore as I don't want another PC to maintain/upgrade, software licenses to buy, and the additional power/electricity usage. I have an old android set-top/blu-ray box (since new, with intel atom processor) for the internet stuff (bedroom 52" TV). Also have a blu-ray box and smart TV that can do all the same too (family room tv). The playstuff and xstuff game consoles do all the same too.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Josh, I'm considering changing out my sub configuration and if I do, I'd be selling what I currently have:
Dayton Audio 15" Ultimax Subwoofer and Cabinet Package | 300-7097

All you'd need is a good amp and you'd be set.

I sent you a PM with some details. LMK if you're interested.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Those Ultimax kits are a good deal. I hope they start doing that combo with the 18".


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I have had HTPC in regular cases for a few years. It's just been a computer next to the TV, lol. But I was thinking for this build I would upgrade my all around computer and hand down the previous parts for the HTPC build...and use an HTPC case so it will not stand out, like this:









It will be Win 7, i3-2100, 8gb ram, HD6770, WinTV dual tuner w/remote, and 500gb HDD.

I don't have cable TV either so it serves more than it would for most.

One problem I am running into is that WMP does not play Blu-Ray (probably because they backed HD-DVD so they are holding a grudge), but I read places there are codecs that can be added to WMP and/or I would need a program that works inside WMP that has the codecs. But that is stupid annoying of MS.

Might end up with an Ultimax thanks to Erin. It looks like a beast of a sub.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Newegg.com - MartinLogan MLT-1 5.1CH Home Theater Speaker System, Black

These are in my gaming room with a denon 1909 with aud xt. Sounds excellent. Best deal out imo.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> I have had HTPC in regular cases for a few years. It's just been a computer next to the TV, lol. But I was thinking for this build I would upgrade my all around computer and hand down the previous parts for the HTPC build...and use an HTPC case so it will not stand out, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Check into Jriver: JRiver Media Center software

Here is a great discussion on it (just ignore the $3k DAC recommendations): How to replace your home theater pre-pro with a HTPC!

I am going to try this with my HTPC this weekend and also attempt to use Dirac room correction. Trying to avoid buying an Anthem with this route


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks. I don't want to go through all that trouble, but it's a shame that since big companies like, MS, HP, etc. don't care if customers are happy with Blu-Ray playback that we get stuck with all these second rate programs that are either slow or don't play certain features within the disc. I wanted one less remote and one less box to to find a home for, but it looks like the Sony BDP-5100 is about the same price as a Blu-Ray burner for a computer, so that's what I might just get a dedicated player.


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## Blazemore (Dec 1, 2006)

schmiddr2 said:


> I wanted one less remote and one less box to to find a home for, but it looks like the Sony BDP-5100 is about the same price as a Blu-Ray burner for a computer, so that's what I might just get a dedicated player.


For what it's worth I purchased the same BR player for the parents and it's been working fine for them. Parents are in their late 70's so it's easy for them to use.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

lol I actually have a new Sony BDP-S5100 in a factory sealed box. A store gave it to me free last year but we already have other Sony set-top and blu-ray boxes that we currently use. This BDP-S5100 is probably my 8th(?) Sony bluray thing.

The sony stuff is a great choice because they are basically an entertainment company, they own the video/audio distribution company (along with some movie and recording studios), and that's why we can play the newest streaming releases/movies right from their Video Unlimited / Sony Entertainment Network store (small fee per movie and you can choose the SD or HD type to stream). For older movies, pretty much any internet box or channels can do it too and it has the usual Crackle/Youtube/etc apps on it (pretty much the same bunch of items as all other brands of boxes).

@schmiddr2 if you don't change your mind in the next few hours/days just pm me your address and it's yours free!


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

^^Good man. I just purchased the S5100 to replace my old Sony Bluray BX1 or something (Costco model) from about 5 years ago. The S5100 is excellent in all regards and has great reviews.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

schmiddr2 said:


> Im thinking of getting a HT receiver (Denon X2000) with Audyssey XT. Since it will only be about 95w per channel 8ohm i was thinking about the benefits of IB. I want to have strong stereo fronts as well as surround speakers (not IB). Anyone have advice for a beginner in home audio and I don't want to spend thousands.


I wouldn't buy any newer Denon gear.

The last one I bought was GOD aweful.

For the price I like Onkyo for a receiver.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

WestCo said:


> I wouldn't buy any newer Denon gear.
> 
> The last one I bought was GOD aweful.
> 
> For the price I like Onkyo for a receiver.


Agreed, though I hear Onkyo HDMI boards are still problematic and their support is subpar. But I am sending back my Denon AVR-X4000 for a list of really weird behavior that cannot be resolved with a microprocessor reset.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

It's funny, because I'm actually sending back my Onkyo and I've been reluctant to buy an Integra due to numerous issues reported on AVS forum. 

There's really nothing that seems to be perfect. And if it is, it's not cheap by any means.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

My old JVC and Yamaha receivers were rock solid. Heavy like rocks too. Now I just use a Sony receiver (a free new one too lol, I just needed something that can do 3D-HDMI/4K support). the tv and all those stuff there belongs to the wife and kids - apparently I don't get to use it :\


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

That's stupendous! I am sure I want to go the Blu-Ray player route and the Sony was my first choice. Thank you for the offer and I'll shoot you a PM shortly.

I am sold on the Onkyo, but I have read about the HDMI issues also. They had firmware updates which some people say fixed them, but that seems odd because I thought people were saying the HDMI board died. Either way it has a 2 year warranty so I suppose I will be covered.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

bikinpunk said:


> It's funny, because I'm actually sending back my Onkyo and I've been reluctant to buy an Integra due to numerous issues reported on AVS forum.
> 
> There's really nothing that seems to be perfect. And if it is, it's not cheap by any means.


:/ Well that stinks. The Denon worked but the sound was terrible, it was returned. I guess they merged with Marantz or some other company. Things are going down hill for a lot of audio companies.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> It's funny, because I'm actually sending back my Onkyo and I've been reluctant to buy an Integra due to numerous issues reported on AVS forum.
> 
> There's really nothing that seems to be perfect. And if it is, it's not cheap by any means.


Yep, it's driving me crazy. Then I started looking at Anthems and read that they have digital audio lock issues. I give up


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I have an onkyo 707 in the living room and an onkyo 506 in the office, never had problems with any since day one, except the 506 has shut for a few times in the summer when it gets super hot.

I've also had a denon 2312 for about a month, worked perfectly. My next receiver will probably be a denon.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

We have a package on the way over to Josh/schmiddr2!!


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks man! I just bought 8 $5 Blu-Rays to try it out.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

you're very welcome!! Whoa that's like 20 hours of movies and another 10 hours if you check out the extras they put on these BD discs!! Have fun there!!

(Later when you get a new receiver, be sure it supports a feature called "HDMI pass-through". This allows us to hook the BD-player to the Receiver and then to the TV via HDMI. This HDMI pass-thru allows an auto-connect/auto-switching of the inputs in the receiver so that we don't need to switch on the receiver when we just want to play a movie (without all big speakers on). Many/some receivers today do have this feature and it's probably good to have/check for it. (Older receivers don't do it.))


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Those Onkyo's used to really outperform in their price class, and my friends' have been quite reliable. But I'm not up on the latest HT gear.

As far as R-L-C and rear, I really like 5 of the same speaker. To me it keeps the balance and intelligibility accurate and clear. And it really improves the overall sound for multichannel music. 
I'd use the Onkyo to try a set of 5 Dayton B652's. If you like 'em, great! (I have a set in the garage. They're not up the level of my home stereo setup, but are quite remarkable for the price.) If they're not quite refined enough, perhaps the Pioneer sp-bs22-lr would do the trick.

Then I'd look into a pair of subs already mentioned in this thread that could blend well with the main stage, but power 'em with an Emotiva stereo amp (if they're not self-powered.)

Good luck!


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## PatrickC (Feb 24, 2014)

Where do I start. 
The HDMI pass through comment is backwards. Movies are when you want all of your channels running. What you don't need for some media is having your big screen on when you're listening to audio.

The line outs mentioned earlier don't have to be on a preamp or prepro. My Onkyo TX-NR929 AVR has 11 channels of pre outs. It's the lower mid range and down AVRs that have no preamp line outs.

Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 is thee feature to have in AVRs. But the newer Onkyo TX-NR828 is not the replacement for the older 818 but a somewhat dumbed down version without the benefit of XT32. The 929 is the more advanced replacement for the 818. The 818 has it's own baggage. It's hard to tell when Onkyo made the hardware change over for the HDMI boards like my 929 has. My 929 runs 30 degrees cooler than my Integra DTC 9.8 prepro or my older Onkyo AVR. I found it hard to nail down Onkyo about when the change took place.

I've had an HTPC since the 90s. I'd be hard pressed to recommend it to some one today instead of the various versions of media boxes to some one starting out. But if you want the best, a quiet late model dedicated HTPC with J River Media Center is the gold standard.

As for the OP wanting to jump into HT and coming from car audio, you might want to take a step back. Do a lot more homework on AVS forum. You're kind of all over the place, not concentrating on the viewing and listening experience, but more on the equipment with your car audio baggage. Don't get me wrong, that's good experience, but still a different world.

You've already mentioned large subs and maybe more than one. You can't possibly know that yet. Adding a great sub to an already good sounding system albeit lacking a little bass will be a huge improvement with most content. Adding a second or third sub can smooth out some problems or sometimes exacerbate them. My sub box is an 11" cube but it has a 2 3/4" cone throw and it's amp is the size of a candy bar. but I electrically verified that indeed it's amplifier puts out 2700 watts. That's how it gets flat down to 18hz without being 15" or whatever in diameter.

I was actually thinking of fixing it's twin for a second sub in the HT until I got the 929 with it's XT32 with all of it's extra filtering down low. I've never had bass this low. flat and tight.

As for speakers try to spend most of your money there. I recently replaced my Meridian DSP digital speakers (L&R) with GoldenEar Triton Sevens. Research them and you'll find out why. But then this has been my hobby since the sixties and I don't make too many mistakes anymore. But I can't say I haven't suffered from updateitis. Be careful, it's contagious and expensive. 

I have multiple rooms with multi channel systems including my shop/garage powered by my old Integra prepro for 5.1. A guy can't have a shop without tunes. But with that said, there's nothing like cranking up a Blu-ray concert in the 9.1 Home Theater.

Oh, did I mention, do your homework on the AVS forum.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

I ended up replacing my Denon AVR-X4000 with an Anthem MRX-500 and I haven't looked back. Less features like Airplay but the sound quality is incredible and ARC is 100000x better than XT32. ARC sounds more natural, shows you frequency response before/after, does not modify sounds above 5khz (Audyssey does and the result is weird...removes the top end completely). The Anthem really helped reboot my faith in affordable high-end gear (even though original MSRP was $300 more than the Denon, I found it preowned for a great deal and if you look hard enough, they come up for sale quite a bit). It makes sense that it is better though since Anthem has learned so much from their high dollar theater processors.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Thank you all for the advice. I have read quite a lot and am still learning. But, things change and instead of remodeling my house I'm going to build a new one.

I did buy a couple of these: FRYS.com | INFINITY , just to see what I think about in-wall speakers. They are on sale for $35 a piece if you call in your order.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

schmiddr2 said:


> I did buy a couple of these: FRYS.com*|*INFINITY , just to see what I think about in-wall speakers.


... and do you have a verdict yet? Chance to listen?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

1st order of business (for me) was to start out with an external DAC 

These are highly recommended:
Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Just bought them today. I had no intention of buying anything for HT but they went on sale today and figured at $70 a pair, why not try them out; at the least I can use them in my shop.


I have no idea why I would need a standalone DAC unit.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

schmiddr2 said:


> Just bought them today. I had no intention of buying anything for HT but they went on sale today and figured at $70 a pair, why not try them out; at the least I can use them in my shop.
> 
> 
> I have no idea why I would need a standalone DAC unit.


I am super picky about Dac's. Personally it's my favorite part of the system.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

My favorite part is when it's all installed and I get to use it 
But I just don't know anything about the difference they can make so I suppose I need to read some threads about DAC's.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

schmiddr2 said:


> My favorite part is when it's all installed and I get to use it
> But I just don't know anything about the difference they can make so I suppose I need to read some threads about DAC's.


People will say what they will about DAC's and source units. I love the sound of the mda5000 and sony xdp4000x. They are so good I use them for home use... But I am just a crazy bastard I guess.

We are all sensitive to different things.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Me pushing some elcheapo polks to their limits. I love it!!!

Not much bass though... :/

Would be better with a better DAC...


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

And please tell Ant to fix the video embedding plug in... shiesh... lol

nvm I figured it out


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

WestCo said:


> 1st order of business (for me) was to start out with an external DAC
> 
> These are highly recommended:
> Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.


What do you think about the FiiO DACs? I need 8 channels of DAC for a miniSharc project I am working on and looking for the best performance/value ratio out there.

Specifically this one:
Amazon.com: FiiO D3 (D03K) Digital to Analog Audio Converter - 192kHz/24bit Optical and Coaxial DAC: Electronics


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Architect7 said:


> What do you think about the FiiO DACs? I need 8 channels of DAC for a miniSharc project I am working on and looking for the best performance/value ratio out there.
> 
> Specifically this one:
> Amazon.com: FiiO D3 (D03K) Digital to Analog Audio Converter - 192kHz/24bit Optical and Coaxial DAC: Electronics


Hmm it's probably better than the dac on an iPhone/android phone.

That little thing might surprise you.  
You never know unless you A/B it on a system that you are familiar with.

Most DACs are too clinical for me. For the same reason I looove tube amps/preamps.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

And I haven't tried that specific unit.


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