# 2021 Honda Civic Type R build - Audiofrog, JL, Hertz, Helix



## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Hi guys,
After a lot of debating and asking about, I settled down on my equipment, which I just received (pictured below. Note my cat praying on the new equipment).
Front stage:
Audiofrog 3-way GB series: GB60, GB25, GB10 (100W each)
Rear fill:
Hertz MPX165.3 pro (100W)
Subwoofer:
JL 12W6v3-D4 (600W)
Amplification
2 Helix C Four (150Wx4)
Helix C One (525W)
DSP
Helix DSP Ultra + Director + Hec BT

This is my first build so a little nerves. Managed to get the C Fours and the DSP Ultra second hand for a reasonable price. Crossing fingers everything will work fine. Still don't know what I'll do about the source, will try first to get an optical signal from the HU with a technician, and if that doesn't work probably going for an aftermarket android HU. Going to fabricate the A pillars for sure. The car comes with 6 speakers in the back, including two on the c pillars and might use them as well for rear fill, that remains to be seen.
Now... the only thing that is still missing is *THE CAR!!!* which should arrive mid august.
Will keep this post updated.


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## LimpCroissaint (May 18, 2021)

Thats some nice equipment you got there man! It's going to sound real good. Just take your time and don't rush things. Try to do everything the best you can the first time so you don't have to keep going back. I really would like to try a set of those Audiofrogs someday.


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

Sage advice.


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## cman (Aug 24, 2020)

Beautiful equipment! The C fours have super low distortion, damping factor in the thousands. 

Audiofrog's also test with very low distortion... those combined with the C Four's will be a very clean combination. Cant wait to see pics of the install!


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

LimpCroissaint said:


> Thats some nice equipment you got there man! It's going to sound real good. Just take your time and don't rush things. Try to do everything the best you can the first time so you don't have to keep going back. I really would like to try a set of those Audiofrogs someday.


Will do, thanks. Especially wanted good amp+dsp basis so that I can experiment in the future mostly with the speakers if not satisfied. Going to take the time with the install and try not to cut corners.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

cman said:


> Beautiful equipment! The C fours have super low distortion, damping factor in the thousands.
> 
> Audiofrog's also test with very low distortion... those combined with the C Four's will be a very clean combination. Cant wait to see pics of the install!


Thanks. Hope it will sound good.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

That's going to sound AMAZING....!

Go Honda...!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

When you first install it you'll be disappointed, as you'll have rushed the tune in your excitement to get it going! Double back and build it up in layers and then you'll be cooking. That's where the fun is at.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Muu said:


> When you first install it you'll be disappointed, as you'll have rushed the tune in your excitement to get it going! Double back and build it up in layers and then you'll be cooking. That's where the fun is at.


I have a person who specializes in DSP tuning, think a lot has to do with that, going to take my time with the tuning. And going for the best installer in my area. He's not cheap, uses special fabrication equipment including simulation sowtware, but I think it will be worth it. I'm all for doing thing thoroughly the first time. It is also more cost effective in the long run IMO.


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## audiocholic (Dec 5, 2016)

congrats mate, great choices!


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## audiocholic (Dec 5, 2016)

udihamudi65 said:


> I have a person who specializes in DSP tuning, think a lot has to do with that, going to take my time with the tuning. And going for the best installer in my area. He's not cheap, uses special fabrication equipment including simulation sowtware, but I think it will be worth it. I'm all for doing thing thoroughly the first time. It is also more cost effective in the long run IMO.


perhaps it might be best that you get a rather simple let it run tune so that it doesnt take hours and costs cheap,
after the drivers have worked in alittle (break in period altought some state there is no such thing my belief definatley differs) you can go back to the shop and then have a proper tune and also be able to pin point all the areas you want fixed 

if your not too far from Hayarkon I usually stay at Tal by the beach off Hayarkon and often visit (3-4 times a year) once I get my second shot and your borders ease off I plan to visit and will happily tune with all my experience I have off a umik 1 for free as a gesture and if you dont like it you can simply erase it from the preset on the dsp or jump from preset to preset to compare which you like better (the Israeli tech or mine)


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## DoubleCrown (Jun 26, 2019)

It's all about the install now...


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

audiocholic said:


> perhaps it might be best that you get a rather simple let it run tune so that it doesnt take hours and costs cheap,
> after the drivers have worked in alittle (break in period altought some state there is no such thing my belief definatley differs) you can go back to the shop and then have a proper tune and also be able to pin point all the areas you want fixed
> 
> if your not too far from Hayarkon I usually stay at Tal by the beach off Hayarkon and often visit (3-4 times a year) once I get my second shot and your borders ease off I plan to visit and will happily tune with all my experience I have off a umik 1 for free as a gesture and if you dont like it you can simply erase it from the preset on the dsp or jump from preset to preset to compare which you like better (the Israeli tech or mine)


Thanks for the offer! Give me a PM once you are here and we can meet up.😊


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## audiocholic (Dec 5, 2016)

I wonder if it is a good idea to have the OP use 1 complete C four for the left hand side speakers only and the second C four for the right hand side speakers only aswell.

I cant find it but I read here before a long time ago that this somehow has an advantage on seperation of something like such


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

I have a similar set up for GB60s, GB25s, and GB10s. Just don't under power the GB60s with only 100W. The C Four is 150W x 4 @ 4 ohms. I will power mine with a Helix H400x amp bridged @ 250W X 2 @ 4 ohms. My C Four will power (2) GS62 (rear fill), (1) GB10, (1) GB25 (center channel speakers). My Brax GX 2400 amp will power (2) GB25s and (2) GB10s (front stage). My P Two amp will power (2) JL Audio 10TW3s. Helix Ultra DSP and Director for tuning and a Kenwood DNR1007XR Head Unit . It should sound good.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> I have a similar set up for GB60s, GB25s, and GB10s. Just don't under power the GB60s with only 100W. The C Four is 150W x 4 @ 4 ohms. I will power mine with a Helix H400x amp bridged @ 250W X 2 @ 4 ohms. My C Four will power (2) GS62 (rear fill), (1) GB10, (1) GB25 (center channel speakers). My Brax GX 2400 amp will power (2) GB25s and (2) GB10s (front stage). My P Two amp will power (2) JL Audio 10TW3s. Helix Ultra DSP and Director for tuning and a Kenwood DNR1007XR Head Unit . It should sound good.


sounds great


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## audiocholic (Dec 5, 2016)

619Tundra said:


> I have a similar set up for GB60s, GB25s, and GB10s. Just don't under power the GB60s with only 100W. The C Four is 150W x 4 @ 4 ohms. I will power mine with a Helix H400x amp bridged @ 250W X 2 @ 4 ohms. My C Four will power (2) GS62 (rear fill), (1) GB10, (1) GB25 (center channel speakers). My Brax GX 2400 amp will power (2) GB25s and (2) GB10s (front stage). My P Two amp will power (2) JL Audio 10TW3s. Helix Ultra DSP and Director for tuning and a Kenwood DNR1007XR Head Unit . It should sound good.



you would be amazed at how much power 150rms actually is if used properly, to give you a perspective I personally did an experiment with my installer whom was insistant a few details wouldnt make a difference.

We had seperated the left side to my requests vs right side done his traditional way such as

Left:
1) proper 14 awg speaker wire run to midbasses
2) a custom speaker adapter with its rear end SLANTED / CHAMFERED as DLS suggests like in the below manual:




__





DLS NORDICA 6.2 Owner's Manual (Page 2 of 2) | ManualsLib







www.manualslib.com





3) adapter positioned closer to door card (original gap was reduced from 23mm's to 8mm's
4) an open cell egg crate foam used such like in the fast ring rear end to eliminate backwaves (foam was sprayed with a German liquid protector and works wonders for over a year so far)

5) original door card grill was was huge however most holes appeared as holes but in reality were closed (fake for apperance) so additional holes were opened on the grill to allow for the speaker to work its way out of them

6) fast ring around the speaker was used to close the gap between the speaker and door card (altough pictures show the right side with it we removed it for testing purposes later on on the right side)

Right:

1) traditional insulation on inner and outer door metal aswell as on door card inner side was used for both left and right side

2) traditional mdf adapter used for right side in original speaker positioning
3) oem speaker wire was used (I believe it was as thin as 22awg on my renault)


in the end to make the experiment fair I placed the microphone identically the same (about 8 inches direct to speaker grill) on both left and right side using a imm-6 and collecting data off helix dsp rta with pinknoise (I know not best but didnt let me down either)

my findings were that the left side performed 1.5-2.5 or 2db on average better vs right side for 70-300hz area which is more or less = %66 power (rms) difference

to confirm this I balanced both sides on RTA with my dsp db settings and later on removed speakers from amp,unfiltered the settings (fullrange) played a -5db test tone at 50hz (most accurate for dmm) and measured the output which was

16.6v left side so about 69rms
21.1v right side so about 111rms

the result was almost identical to what I thought I cought on the rta being more or less a %60 difference (69 to 111) 
and trust me on an efficient driver 70rms is more then enough for the average listener,150rms on a good install should work wonders

here are some photos


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## audiocholic (Dec 5, 2016)

more photos of the foam I used along with how the driver sits on the custom adapter,
the spray I used is a good quality German made outdoor water repellent and works amazingly well.

I sprayed it than had it wait/dry than resprayed roughly for 5-6 days and then tested how well it protects against water and I must say this thing is space engineering level, its just wow to watch how well it performs.

as mentioned I live in an extremely humid climate and even though it has been trouble free from odour,mould and so on for over a year and the car is washed once a week everyweek.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

OK so my car FINALLY arrived, fitted it with a new exhaust (27won), PPF, and I even managed to take it to the track:

























Yesterday my audio installer started working on the audio system.
So far he managed to fit the tweeter in the OEM enclosure and fabricated the doors using alcantara to allow the midbass to protrude as much as possible to the cabin. Since this is first an foremost a sports car and I need the visibility I'm going to try and minimize the A pillar as much as possible hopefully without sacrificing to much audio quality. So my installer recommended the tweeters stay in the OEM location.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

eagerly following your build as i am looking for ideas as to what to do with my CTR. can you show more of what the door woofer install was like? how are you connecting to the factory radio? keep it up, i am eager to see how your build works out!!


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

vactor said:


> eagerly following your build as i am looking for ideas as to what to do with my CTR. can you show more of what the door woofer install was like? how are you connecting to the factory radio? keep it up, i am eager to see how your build works out!!


Another picture of the door woofer. Note that he used Alcentara similar do the one on the door trim which he will be using for the A pillars as well. 








And this is the ring he fabricated to mount it on. He crafted it with a phase at the bottom as to allow more efficient sound flow:















As I understand it is not possible to tilt the speakers towards the driver that much because of the construction of the doors, otherwise the glove box won't open.
As for the output from the HU, on Sunday he will send it to a technician to try and get an optical out. If it is not possible he will use a LOC, using the DSP I think. Will keep updates as they come through.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

OK a quick update. The biggest news is my installer managed to get an clean digital signal from the HU through the SPDIF connector so we don't need to use any sort of LOC or signal correction. He used a self made harness and avoided splicing. Spent hours on it and it was a big headache so I'm very grateful for his devotion. This is his website and I highly recommend hem to anyone living in Israel. The only issue is that the volume control is now not operable from the HU or steering wheel but that can be done by a Helix Conductor which he will install in the car.










Also the amp rack is ready:


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

can you get some details on how he made the adapter? i have been trying to find a matching Fakra connector to make one. not sure any companies like PAC / Metra make a spid Fakra to coax converter ...


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

vactor said:


> can you get some details on how he made the adapter? i have been trying to find a matching Fakra connector to make one. not sure any companies like PAC / Metra make a spid Fakra to coax converter ...


It's a holiday here now, I'll ask him for more info the day after tomorrow.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

vactor said:


> can you get some details on how he made the adapter? i have been trying to find a matching Fakra connector to make one. not sure any companies like PAC / Metra make a spid Fakra to coax converter ...


From what I understand (and I'm no tech guy) he took a Honda antenna connector and soldered an RCA cable from the other side. He said he couldn't find any compatible Fakra connector.
Look in the Civix forum, I think others have done that as well.


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## nags (Sep 8, 2021)

27won rules.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Ok another update. The Helix conductor is ready and looks pretty good IMO (swapped the director for the conductor because of better install option, the director is much bigger)


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Amp rack is wired up:









And A pillars under construction:


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

A pillars ready. Nice OEM look I think. Can't wait to see them on.








And some door and A pillar deadening. For now not deadening other areas to save weight.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

A pillars are ready


















Sub box ready


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Ok quick update. The audio is coming thru,* but my initial fear materialized, the echo problem persists even with the Helix DSP Ultra (During phone calls the other side has unbearable echo). This of course does not happen with the OEM amp+dsp.* *So** this problem** that others have experiences is not with the AXDSP-NH3 but with this awful head unit or maybe the mic is too sensitive (would most appreciate any other ideas how to solve this).* My installer tried putting physical filters on the mic but that didn't help. He is consulting audio technicians trying to work out a more elegant solution, but worst case scenario I will install an external BT unit. Problem is when you use Android auto voice calls automatically go to the HU. But that can be solved by installing Honda Hack and not using android auto at all, which I planned anyway, because it is more convenient to have Waze, Spotify etc. as independent applications on the HU that are unrestricted by Android auto. Will continue to update.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

These are final pics of the installation. Have to say I am very thrilled as it sounds freaking amazing. Only thing left to do is send it to someone who specializes in DSP tweaking, although for my ears it's already great now.































































Now,* about the echo problem on BT calls,* thought about replacing the HU to an aftermarket one but there are some functions specific for type R, like rev match toggle, that I doubt an aftermarket HU will be able to control, which I'm not willing to sacrifice. So I installed Honda Hack, downloaded Deezer APK from cmdroid and installed it on the HU. Also installed Waze. Problem is this awful HU (where on earth did those cheap bastards at Honda get this SH**?) is too underpowered to run them both in the background and starts to lag and crash. So gonna work with Deezer alone on the HU and Waze on my phone. Will add a external BT handsfree kit connected to the Helix DSP for voice calls and Waze nav voice. This is the best solution in my case. For other civics, which are not type R, I would go with an aftermarket HU.


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## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

Try down firing your sub on the passenger side up to the seats. 

Found in my small hatchback this worked well and was less boomy. 

Lovely install!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

OK I'm very pleased to say *the echo problem is totally solved with a mic replacement! *Android Auto runs everything perfectly. there is no echo what so ever. It is probably the OEM mic that works properly only with the OEM amp+dsp. So no need for an external BT handsfree kit.
Original mic was taken off:


















And a aftermarket mic was installed in the same location (he exposed the mic for better sound input):

















Turns out it's a OEM mic problem, and *I have a good feeling using an aftermarket mic will solve the problem with the Axxess AXDSPX-NH3 as well.*

To clarify things about my installation: I have two separate inputs running to the Helix DSP simultaneously. The first is the SPDIF. The second is all other connections from the HU to the OEM amp+DSP. He kept the OEM amp+dsp running, it is still connected to the HU via all the connection accept the SPDIF ( RS485, connector C etc.) and this analog output goes out from the OEM amp to the high power input in the Helix DSP. This audio is channeled to the front mid bass speakers. That way you get all the beeps, nav voice and notification as before. To do this you need a DSP with Coaxial and analog inputs, such as most Helix DSP's.

To answer questions about how he made the connection from the OEM SPDIF to Helix DSP: one side of a Honda antenna connector connects perfectly to the SPDIF output of the HU. He cut off the other side and soldered a coaxial connector to it, which connects to Helix coaxial input. It is a regular coaxial connector.

I have to give all the credit to my installers ingenuity and persistency. He went through pages and pages of the 500+ page manual of the audio system trying to figure everything out and wouldn't give up. I highly recommend him to anyone in Israel:
*Yossi Alpine
מערכות לרכב - התקנות ואביזרי רכב, מולטימדיה לרכב, המתקין האיכותי בארץ - יוסי אלפיין*

Hope I helped...


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## asnipes1 (Oct 16, 2021)

udihamudi65 said:


> OK I'm very pleased to say *the echo problem is totally solved with a mic replacement! *Android Auto runs everything perfectly. there is no echo what so ever. It is probably the OEM mic that works properly only with the OEM amp+dsp. So no need for an external BT handsfree kit.
> Original mic was taken off:
> 
> This is amazing! Okay so I can't imagine how good this sounds.
> ...


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## asnipes1 (Oct 16, 2021)

This is amazing! I can't imagine how good this sounds.
Question for you - Do you know how he connected the aftermarket mic in place of the oem mic? i have a 2019 accord with premium sound system. I'm running the axxess dsp and everything is great but the phone calls. Any help or guidance would be very appreciated!


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

asnipes1 said:


> This is amazing! I can't imagine how good this sounds.
> Question for you - Do you know how he connected the aftermarket mic in place of the oem mic? i have a 2019 accord with premium sound system. I'm running the axxess dsp and everything is great but the phone calls. Any help or guidance would be very appreciated!


In the civic the mic is located exactly where you see in the pic above my new mic sticking out, just near the cabin light panel. It is a very simple plug and play replacement. Disconnected the oem mic (just the actual mic itself, not the wiring all the way to the amp/HU) and connect a new mic.


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## asnipes1 (Oct 16, 2021)

udihamudi65 said:


> In the civic the mic is located exactly where you see in the pic above my new mic sticking out, just near the cabin light panel. It is a very simple plug and play replacement. Disconnected the oem mic (just the actual mic itself, not the wiring all the way to the amp/HU) and connect a new mic.


Gotcha, so my question is: when i took the mic out There is a five pin connecter that the mic plugs into. How do I know which pins to hook up an aftermarket mic to? How did your installer create a plug that fits the mic harness when you take it out?

Thanks, this is very helpful.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

asnipes1 said:


> Gotcha, so my question is: when i took the mic out There is a five pin connecter that the mic plugs into. How do I know which pins to hook up an aftermarket mic to? How did your installer create a plug that fits the mic harness when you take it out?
> 
> Thanks, this is very helpful.


You expose two wires (red and blue) as pictured below and attach the exposed aftermarket mic wires to it.


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Quick update. After replacing to an aftermarket mic I found that the echo does continue somewhat, especially if the volume is high, though much less than with the OEM mic . It's workable but not great, because you can't hear the other side too loud otherwise the echo will start and the other side starts complaining. Also the mic is less sensitive (which is good, otherwise the echo will start) but because of this I have to speak louder than I find natural. I guess what happens is the mic pics up the other side's speech, resends it to him "thinking" it is new speech, and that what causes the echo on the other side (he hears himself repeating himself). Probably the OEM DSP has some kind of mechanism to cancel the other side's speech from re-registering. Anyway I am gonna try installing a directional mic that is designed to cancel sound from the sides and register voice only coming from the front (as opposed to omni-directional usually used).

Will update with the results.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Great to hear you sorted the gremlins!

How is the sub secured down?


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Muu said:


> Great to hear you sorted the gremlins!
> 
> How is the sub secured down?


It is secured to the floor of the trunk with velcro and doesn't move at all even with extremely tihgt cornering.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So buddy of mine thought the same, had a head on collision and the sub ended up bursting through the seats and embedded in the dashboard next to him.

I personally would always ensure anything that heavy is bolted down, or at least has lash straps.

Typical hatchback isn't really going to be exceeding 1.0-1.5 G n cornering force, compared to 20G in a relatively mundane crash. That subs got to be what 35KG? 700KG force....


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

Muu said:


> So buddy of mine thought the same, had a head on collision and the sub ended up bursting through the seats and embedded in the dashboard next to him.
> 
> I personally would always ensure anything that heavy is bolted down, or at least has lash straps.
> 
> Typical hatchback isn't really going to be exceeding 1.0-1.5 G n cornering force, compared to 20G in a relatively mundane crash. That subs got to be what 35KG? 700KG force....


Guess I'm gonna ask my installer to strap it then...


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Cool, don't wanna be 'that guy' just better safe than sorry, especially if you have kids in the back


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Damn this install is nuts! In my Type R I used speaker level inputs to an Audison APf8.9 which sorted out the signal quite nicely but I like your solution better for sure!

If those door cards or A pillars ever get sold I want dibs!


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