# School me on carputers?



## ghostmechanic (Mar 2, 2009)

Ok I guess I can't fight technology forever lol. I've decided to forgo buying a minidisc player & I have room in my dash for another 1/2 din component. I am NOT willing to get rid of my 1/2 din head. I have come to realize compressed digital music is fairly convenient but I still don't want to give up sound quality. So I've been discussing this apple lossless thing with someone on here.

I bought a 1/2 din slide out touch screen monitor a little while back I plan to mount above my head. I'd like to have a fairly small computer to hook up to it that has enough space to load at least most of my 600 CD collection once converted. Also I have no issues with putting a computer together I don't think because I've rebuilt my PC a few times. I just am unsure where I should start & what parts would be best or most necessary. So...

My question is this. I need a small motherboard, DVD drive would be nice, video card & power supply for 12v. Anything else? I only want this computer primarily for the CD collection mentioned & maybe to play a DVD here & there. I assume my main concern is a large hard drive? Will I need a powerful processor or memory or could I get by with older stuff to save some cash?

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I've written about this recently.

If you're just using it for playback and nothing else, the processor doesn't matter. You could rip the motherboard out of a 5 year old machine, put 512mb in, throw XP on it, and call it a day. If you plan to do audio processing with it, then you'll need a heftier processor.

Buy a 12v power supply from mp3car.com (I use one of the carnetix ones). Then build the rest of the computer as you normally would. There's no need for a separate video card, etc. Buy a board with as much integrated as possible (eg. drive controller, video, ports, etc).


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Why not get an all in on media player and a portable 5 or 12 volt DC S/PDIF to analog converter.

?


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## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

^----- what he said.

The Sarotech unit he references works *great* and has analog and digital outputs. Your CD collection should fit well on a 500 GB hard drive (with lots of room to spare), but the Sarotech only works with WAV files in the "uncompressed" category.

Best part is you can probably find a unit for about $100 used + the cost of a HD (figure about $75 or less). Not sure you can find a computer for less than that which will work in a car...


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

m3gunner said:


> ^----- what he said.
> 
> The Sarotech unit he references works *great* and has analog and digital outputs. Your CD collection should fit well on a 500 GB hard drive (with lots of room to spare), but the Sarotech only works with WAV files in the "uncompressed" category.
> 
> Best part is you can probably find a unit for about $100 used + the cost of a HD (figure about $75 or less). Not sure you can find a computer for less than that which will work in a car...


For just a playback system, you should be able to find a computer on the side of the road. Yank the motherboard and you're good to go. The cost with a computer setup comes from the peripherals -- the screen, the power supply, the hard drive, and the peripherals. The power supply is easy enough to find. The screen though is costly and a ***** to install. Half the battle right there, IMO.


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## ghostmechanic (Mar 2, 2009)

I think what Mark is talking about is the route I wanna go. I'm mainly after storage. I wanna use the monitor I have because it's meant to be a computer monitor + has 3 composite video inputs including for a backup camera. And as far as audio, I just want to run it into the aux RCA jacks on my head unit. Here's my issue... Cost is most definitely an issue but space is a bigger concern. A normal atx motherboard is huge. Do these smaller PCs I see use a smaller motherboard? And then I assume they use like laptop components or something? I don't know what they're called but I see them around where I work anymore. The cases are at least half the size of a regular PC tower.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Mini ITX boards are very small. Glove compartment small. If you can get a fanless CPU to go with them (easy to find), you literally could put it in the glove compartment. 

Go here and browse: Mp3Car Custom Car Computers!

$69 for the board with the atom in it.

Does your monitor have a VGA input?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

For sound out of the PC, get a quality ($50-$100) "USB DAC". Most are the same output voltage as the input sensitivity of a head unit's AUX input (ie 1 volt). They are also stable driver wise and will recover from a hibernation so you won't need to cold boot each time.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Or wait the extra 15 seconds at boot time and use the onboard sound.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Or wait the extra 15 seconds at boot time and use the onboard sound.


Is that 15 or 15 more? Last time I checked hibernation takes 10-15 sec.

On board sound? I know the codec specs always look good these day, but does the actual output on the plug match? Andy W. recommended using the output of a mac mini also, then he changed that recommendation later on, I guess he measured it.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Is that 15 or 15 more? Last time I checked hibernation takes 10-15 sec.


Yeah, boot should take close to 30s, so that leaves a difference of about 15s.



> On board sound? I know the codec specs always look good these day, but does the actual output on the plug match? Andy W. recommended using the output of a mac mini also, then he changed that recommendation later on, I guess he measured it.


Yeah, I'm not sure. I think it's worth a shot. My laptop sound output measures well (TrueRTA). The main problem I've found with onboard sound tends to be ground loops, actually. I'm not exactly sure why. But you know pretty quickly whether or not that's going to be a problem.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

BTW, Standby is also a possibility with a lot of these newer computers that run smaller chipsets. Crazy efficient. I'd try it with mine, but my APM is broken. Don't ask me how that happened..


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure. I think it's worth a shot. My laptop sound output measures well (TrueRTA). The main problem I've found with onboard sound tends to be ground loops, actually. I'm not exactly sure why. But you know pretty quickly whether or not that's going to be a problem.


With obvious problems like hum and noise floor, I agree. But unless you have the test equipment to measure or to compare blindly with rapid switching, you won't notice a degradation. Just because its not obvious doesn't mean it not lower quality and not desierable. Dunno if I'm explaining myself properly.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> BTW, Standby is also a possibility with a lot of these newer computers that run smaller chipsets. Crazy efficient. I'd try it with mine, but my APM is broken. Don't ask me how that happened..


Yup, my 2003 Dell's onboard sound works fine off standby.


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## ghostmechanic (Mar 2, 2009)

Ok so... Mini atx motherboard which I need an atom processor for, I'll need a 12v power supply & DVD drive. Also this DAC? Are the optical drives for the mini atx computers special? I'd assume a regular drive is larger than what they use?

And yes the monitor has VGA input. It's got that + 2 aux composite video inputs + 1 composite dedicated for a backup camera with a signal wire that kicks the monitor on when you hit reverse.

Another issue I hadn't thought about... Operating system. I could easily put XP on it but I'll have to wait for it to load & then manually shut it down before I shut the car off correct? That seems like a pain in the ass. Is there a better option that would allow it to boot up with a switch & shut down the same way?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

ghostmechanic said:


> Ok so... Mini atx motherboard which I need an atom processor for, I'll need a 12v power supply & DVD drive. Also this DAC? Are the optical drives for the mini atx computers special? I'd assume a regular drive is larger than what they use?


We were talking about Mini ITX, not mini ATX. Both would work, but the ITX would be smaller. For the power supply, look at the Carnetix 1900 or whatever it is. That's the one I use. The M1-ATX is also a popular one (and the more powerful M2-ATX). You can get these things at mp3car.com store, among other places.

Not sure why you'd need a DVD drive. To install XP and drivers?



> And yes the monitor has VGA input. It's got that + 2 aux composite video inputs + 1 composite dedicated for a backup camera with a signal wire that kicks the monitor on when you hit reverse.
> 
> Another issue I hadn't thought about... Operating system. I could easily put XP on it but I'll have to wait for it to load & then manually shut it down before I shut the car off correct? That seems like a pain in the ass. Is there a better option that would allow it to boot up with a switch & shut down the same way?


Yes, as long as the board has APM (and they all do, pretty much), it will do this. You need to wire the power supply's wire to the power switch of the board. Download the manual for that carnetix power supply I mentioned and you'll see how it's done. Basically, the power supply "presses" the power button on your computer for you, which automatically boots and shuts down the computer.

If you want even faster boot times than XP will provide, you can always use Windows 98. I was using that for a long time until recently (my GPS wouldn't work right under 98).


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## ghostmechanic (Mar 2, 2009)

I want a DVD drive for installing my music to the hard drive. I assumed it would be easiest to have the apple lossless or whatever on this computer & convert my CDs in it. Then also I would be able to throw in a movie every once in a while like when I'm waiting in a parking lot for my wife or something. Windows 98 is an option for sure. I've got an old copy laying around I think.

So, I think from what you guys have discussed, I'm on the way to having a plan. Thanks go to both of you. Mini ITX? Got it. I mistyped I think.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Screw the DVD drive.  Buy a portable USB hard drive. They're like $50 for 320GB now. Rip all your music to it. Then you can access it from your home computers, etc. When you set up the carPC, transfer the music to it via USB. This serves three purposes -- 1) don't need DVD drive; 2) music is accessible to home computers too; 3) ripped music is backed up (in case of carPC hard drive failure, theft, etc).


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Ghost, what are your plans for media playback software and navigation of that software?


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## ghostmechanic (Mar 2, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Ghost, what are your plans for media playback software and navigation of that software?


I dunno. What's your suggestion? Like I said, my computer knowledge is... I have upgraded my PC several times & can format & reinstall the operating system. Things like that. So the hardware etc isn't an issue. But when it comes to software I'm an idiot lol.

USB hard drive. Check. I thought about that too Mark. It might be the best route for space. My car has a spot on the passenger side for an airbag. But unless my wife's riding with me there isn't an airbag (rebuilder). So if I could fit this where it was... I'd be soooo happy. I was gonna put my DQXS there but I might be selling it off soon & that'll take care of that.

Btw I'll check out the links you guys provided soon. I haven't had a chance yet. So bare with my ignorance if the info I need is in there.


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## ghostmechanic (Mar 2, 2009)

I've been reading about the sarotech thing mentioned. Hmmm. I'm not sure it's not the way to go. Also some of those ready made carputers in that mp3 car store link are sweet. I had no idea such a thing existed. I just figured you'd have to do a DIY thing.

Choices, choices... Lol


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