# Anyone have experience with the Silver Flute W17RC38-04 in ib?



## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

Does anyone have first hand experience with these Silver Flute W17RC38-04 ohm 6-1/2" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store specifically used in infinite baffle? In front doors?

The specs look amazing. Qts is low but I would high pass well above Fs. The flat response and sensetivity look almost too good to be true, but I would love to hear some first hand experiences.

Listening impressions

What did they replace?

If you replaced with something else, why?

I would be running these something on the order of 70 hz too 2000 hz. They seem to fit the bill.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

Nobody has used them?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

in my boom box they have a very warm sound, great sound lots of detail etc, but id definitely not describe them as thin or particularly revealing.

i like them A LOT but definitely a warmer/thicker sound, and very loud off little power.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for the response. My plan is to run these for mid duty with the fabric dome seas car tweeter. This tweeter is quite sensitive and I don't want the flutes to be blown away.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Get them, you'll love them. My friend is using a pair of the 5 1/2s in in his s10, I run the 6 1/2s on my set up sealed though and let me tell you....WOW! Ib I would cross them over at the 70Hz mark, sealed go lower. Mine are crossed over at 55Hz 12dB/Oct with 150w and they love it. I compare them all the time to the Hybrid Audio L6's. 

They sold out of them for a while, not that they've had them back for a few months, I'm thinking of getting another set for back ups. Even thinking about the 8 Khmer versions for a HT set up.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

I'll probably pull the trigger on a pair tomorrow. I will be high passing them for sure 70 or 80 hz. In the short term I'll run them with a TS-D1720c xover and tweeter. Later one of the seas neos or a large format tweeter as space permits.

Cross over will depend on final tweeter choice.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

after being serious about sound for 20+ years id find it very hard to believe you will find a better speaker for $30.

it does a lot of things very right, 


this guy likes em too, which is why i got my first pair.

id guess the 5.5, 6.5 and 8" all have very similar properties.


OVERVIEW

The Decware Mini's, aka Model DM945's are small bookshelf speakers designed around the unique properties of the Silver Flute 8 inch wool cone drivers. Unique because they require one of the smallest enclosures for an 8 inch woofer anywhere in the world. Unique because they are an honest 94dB efficient with a single watt of power. Unique because they have *nearly flawless frequency balance out past 6kHz with no crossover of any kind*. The result is simply unbelievable performance that trounces many floor standing speakers 3 times their size!


http://www.decware.com/newsite/images/dm944lg1280.jpg


Audiophile Tube Amps and Tube Gear from DECWARE


zero bling, just amazing performance.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

Interesting. I was not aware of Decware using a silver flute. What strikes me is that Decware claims no crossover parts for the woofer in that design. It's not the first time I've seen this. In researching these woofers I found this:

Gemme Audio Tanto Review

Gemme audio also claims no crossover parts for the SF W17.

It's very rare to see no LPF used in a good speaker. I've seen the Silver Flutes descibed as "warm" many times for home audio. I have to wonder if this "warmth" makes the HF cone breakup some how tolerable and makes a filterless design possible.

I am going to run them ib so they will definitely be high passed @ 70ish hz, but I have to wonder how they would work running with no LPF.

Where do you guys have yours crossed at?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

mine are playing full range in my boom box, with about 10 watts each they get plenty loud (much louder and cleaner then any store bought boom box) and sound excellent (during a 2 hour listening session at least 4 or 5 times i have to stop and look at it 'the boom box' and smile because its doing something so right)


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## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

I have a pair but been saving them for my next 3way build. I can tell you this, build quality on these are not what you would expect for the price. These are VERY well built drivers. They look and feel like they cost 3 to 4 times what they sell for.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

hooligan72 said:


> Gemme Audio Tanto Review


i like them, interesting 'port' / 'vent' design.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

Very interesting vent design. I would love to see a blueprint of that box.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Not that I'm the Pioneer on these, but I've had mine for over a year now, and I was looking for info on these, then there was absolutely nothing on them. No one here used or even heard of them at the time. It was the best $60 I spent. 

Since then, I've seen many people talk about them and use them. Their response and power handling is what convinced me to take the risk. You wont be disappointed. Like I said, I'd put these up against the SQ scene winning Hybrid Audio L6's. My only complaint, I wish I could find some grilles to go over them.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

Using no crossover on these is complete ********, and whoever wrote that review of that massively overpriced speaker clearly has absolutely no knowledge of how speakers really work. The proof is on the manufacturer's website. 

Silver Flute W17RC38-04 ohm 6-1/2" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store

+5db peak at 5khz, aka cone resonance. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, you need a notch filter. That will definitely be heard. 










Not that its a bad thing, few speakers I've run into don't have some kind of cone resonance, and cone resonance on top of the tweeter's output clearly in that register will create one hell of a massive summed output spike that you'd have to be deaf not to hear.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

I'll still be using it in a 2 way configuration, but if I do use a notch filter up at 5khz I can cross much higher than I currently am. That opens up a lot of options for tweeters if I can cross as high as 3500 or 4000 hz.

In looking around it seem I would have to spend a pretty penny to get a tweeter that can cross at 2k without some extreme crossover measures.


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## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

hooligan72 said:


> I'll still be using it in a 2 way configuration, but if I do use a notch filter up at 5khz I can cross much higher than I currently am. That opens up a lot of options for tweeters if I can cross as high as 3500 or 4000 hz.
> 
> In looking around it seem I would have to spend a pretty penny to get a tweeter that can cross at 2k without some extreme crossover measures.


what about these?
Vifa OT19NC00 2/3" Ring Radiator Tweeter - 4 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

I looked at those. The price is right, but zaph seems to think they would work best in some kind of wave guide. I am also concerned about off axis response. I have no personal experience with phase plug tweeters, but I have read that they are not so great off axis.

I am intrigued by this guy:

Vifa NE25VTA, 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter, 4 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store

It's still in budget, gives a lot of flexibility for crossover frequency and it even looks as though the faceplate removes easily for installation options.

I have not tried any of the "New Vifa" products yet. I used to love some of the old stuff.


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## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Using no crossover on these is complete ********, and whoever wrote that review of that massively overpriced speaker clearly has absolutely no knowledge of how speakers really work. The proof is on the manufacturer's website.
> 
> Silver Flute W17RC38-04 ohm 6-1/2" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store
> 
> ...


Maybe the enclosure design has something to do with not having to use a filter on them. After all, the FR graphs are done free air, not in enclosures.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

hooligan72 said:


> Does anyone have first hand experience with these Silver Flute W17RC38-04 ohm 6-1/2" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store specifically used in infinite baffle? In front doors?


Yep - see The Subwoofer DIY Page v1.1 - Projects : Hyundai Tucson audio upgrade


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

^ nice install Brian


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Using no crossover on these is complete ********, and whoever wrote that review of that massively overpriced speaker clearly has absolutely no knowledge of how speakers really work. The proof is on the manufacturer's website.
> 
> Silver Flute W17RC38-04 ohm 6-1/2" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store
> 
> ...



That would still be in the +/- 3db specs until its rolloff, shouldnt be a huge problem.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

hooligan72 said:


> I'll still be using it in a 2 way configuration, but if I do use a notch filter up at 5khz I can cross much higher than I currently am. That opens up a lot of options for tweeters if I can cross as high as 3500 or 4000 hz.
> 
> In looking around it seem I would have to spend a pretty penny to get a tweeter that can cross at 2k without some extreme crossover measures.


I wouldn't cross that high. I'd honestly cross this one no higher than 3000 and even then, you'll need a high order crossover. I'd cross a little lower.

Here's a tweeter that will cross very nicely at 2500:

Vifa BC25SC06-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter

Quite affordable too. I'd run a 3rd order on the tweeter at 2200-2800 and a 2nd order on the woofer with a notch filter to tame the breakup. 



narvarr said:


> Maybe the enclosure design has something to do with not having to use a filter on them. After all, the FR graphs are done free air, not in enclosures.


Having designed my fair share of enclosures, and modeled baffle diffraction, I can honestly say its not that simple. You could work around it if that peak is somewhere below 300hz, but at that frequency, the wavelength is small enough to where the whole thing will bounce right off of the baffle. There's no way to tame that peak in that baffle. Did you notice that the speaker linked above didn't actually provide a raw frequency response measurement? Whenever concrete data like that isn't provided, you can smell ******** from a mile away. 

These drivers are are not tested free air; they are tested on a large, anechoic baffle. There's no way in hell you're going to deliver 50hz at 90db in free air. 



BeatsDownLow said:


> That would still be in the +/- 3db specs until its rolloff, shouldnt be a huge problem.


Its not a huge problem, but you sure as hell can't run it without a crossover either. Its a blatant breakup. Not as bad as the Sony buyout driver I'm designing a crossover for now, but bad enough to need a notch filter in addition to the crossover.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm all for a cheap tweeter, as long as they sound nice. 96 db seem way loud compared to the Flutes 91 db. The wave guide scares me a little.


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## hooligan72 (Jul 28, 2009)

I suppose I can pad the heck out of it if need be.


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## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I wouldn't cross that high. I'd honestly cross this one no higher than 3000 and even then, you'll need a high order crossover. I'd cross a little lower.
> 
> Here's a tweeter that will cross very nicely at 2500:
> 
> ...


I thought most ported enclosures have a natural rolloff in the upper frequency range?

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

narvarr said:


> I thought most ported enclosures have a natural rolloff in the upper frequency range?
> 
> Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


Nope. Its not a rolloff, its more like a stabilization. Sealed or free air, you start a a 0db reference point, and ported boxes create an augmented output that increases beyond that point. However, that's only for bass frequencies. Our peak is much higher.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

hooligan72 said:


> I suppose I can pad the heck out of it if need be.


An L-pad should do the trick quite nicely. Its common practice since most tweeters play in that sensitivity level anyway.


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