# Where are the Zed Leviathan and Kronos reviews?



## Lanson

As the thread title says, whenever I do a search on DIYMA I get about nothing, and when I google it,..I get DIYMA which brings me right back where I started OR I get some review for "Lair of the Leviathan" apparently a video game...which has some guy named Zed related to it.


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## BTA

I returned mine for a refund.

*shrug*


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## Lanson

BTA said:


> I returned mine for a refund.
> 
> *shrug*


Please do tell!


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## jrgreene1968

BTA said:


> I returned mine for a refund.
> 
> *shrug*



why?


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## BTA

Didn't feel like dealing with the pop issues and the protect issues at turn on. From what I understand you can fix the protect issue by clipping a resistor. I don't think I should have to do that on a $600 brand new amp though.

Shipping it back and forth hoping it gets fixed correctly did not appeal to me either. So I took a nice $60 hit on shipping costs to play around with it for a few days.

As far as how it sounds, I wasn't all that impressed, but I only had a few days of listening/tuning invested so I dunno how much faith you can put into that.

I hope those who are getting them have less issues than I and are happy with them. I just wasn't patient enough to deal with it. I havn't heard of anyone getting one back from repair yet though.


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## roller

Keep in mind that only a few of these have been shipped so far. Also keep in mind that people with negative experiences are generally more vocal than those with positive experiences. It's just human nature.

With that, I have one on order and should be getting it within the next few weeks, will post a review once I get it installed.

Also if it's worth mentioning, Steve Mantz said only 18 amps were shipped with the popping issue and has since been rectified.


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## optimaprime

not knocking you guys that bought first run stuff but this is why i wait to buy new ****. i love zed amps i have two of them but even with new cars theres stuff that gets missed. I hope there will be some reviews coming they look like killer amps.


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## BTA

roller said:


> Keep in mind that only a few of these have been shipped so far. Also keep in mind that people with negative experiences are generally more vocal than those with positive experiences. It's just human nature.
> 
> With that, I have one on order and should be getting it within the next few weeks, will post a review once I get it installed.
> 
> Also if it's worth mentioning, Steve Mantz said only 18 amps were shipped with the popping issue and has since been rectified.


Good to know. I'd still like to hear from an actual user that the issue was rectified.

In a car environment, not on some ****ty bench setup like the 10 post wonder guy likes to yammer on about in the other two threads.


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## jrgreene1968

BTA said:


> Good to know. I'd still like to hear from an actual user that the issue was rectified.
> 
> In a car environment, not on some ****ty bench setup like the 10 post wonder guy likes to yammer on about in the other two threads.



x2..i was interested in them, until i read about the pop


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## Lanson

If Stephen said he fixed it, I'm interested.


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## fredridge

What, you had to eat the cost of shipping???? that seems dumb....sends out a new defective amp and you have to pay for shipping.

It's not like you can go to the store and just buy one and return it to the same store, shipping is part of running an online business, he should eat the cost.


I am guessing all the other reviews are waiting for a couple of months of burn in before they tell you whether they like it or not.




BTA said:


> Didn't feel like dealing with the pop issues and the protect issues at turn on. From what I understand you can fix the protect issue by clipping a resistor. I don't think I should have to do that on a $600 brand new amp though.
> 
> Shipping it back and forth hoping it gets fixed correctly did not appeal to me either. So I took a nice $60 hit on shipping costs to play around with it for a few days.
> 
> As far as how it sounds, I wasn't all that impressed, but I only had a few days of listening/tuning invested so I dunno how much faith you can put into that.
> 
> I hope those who are getting them have less issues than I and are happy with them. I just wasn't patient enough to deal with it. I havn't heard of anyone getting one back from repair yet though.


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## Luke352

^^^It's clearly outlined in Zed's return policy etc... that that is the case.


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## Boostedrex

I've talked to 2 different people who bought a Leviathan and neither were all that impressed with the sound of the amps. I haven't heard them myself, so I can't say any more than that. I'd be interested to hear them though as Stephen has been in the game for a long time and he has always made great amps.


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## fredridge

Yeah, I didn't read the rules.... good thing he outlines it, though I still think it sucks, but that's cool.

I figure I will wait and pick one up used and see how I like it..... I have too many amps sitting around now though.



Luke352 said:


> ^^^It's clearly outlined in Zed's return policy etc... that that is the case.


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## snaimpally

BTA said:


> Didn't feel like dealing with the pop issues and the protect issues at turn on. From what I understand you can fix the protect issue by clipping a resistor. I don't think I should have to do that on a $600 brand new amp though.
> 
> Shipping it back and forth hoping it gets fixed correctly did not appeal to me either. So I took a nice $60 hit on shipping costs to play around with it for a few days.
> 
> As far as how it sounds, I wasn't all that impressed, but I only had a few days of listening/tuning invested so I dunno how much faith you can put into that.
> 
> I hope those who are getting them have less issues than I and are happy with them. I just wasn't patient enough to deal with it. I havn't heard of anyone getting one back from repair yet though.


Good to know. I was debating and then read the pop issue and decided against it. Having to eat $60 on shipping totally sucks!


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## Lanson

I have faith that they will turn out pretty well on the second batch, and I'm sure you could send in your amp (yeah shipping sux) and have him tweak it to perfection if you got an early one...I'm also sure Stephen would walk you through whatever is possible on your own over the phone or email too.


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## SummerGuy

any other review on levathian?


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## Hedonistic1

Yea i am becoming very interested!


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## rommelrommel

Hearing that you eat shipping costs on defect product excites you?

Although I think Zed has made a lot of solid amps over the years it really seems to be the current forum boner. A Kronos/Leviathan pair probably could have worked for me too whenever I get around to doing a system.


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## neomsport

A pal of mine just got his Leviathan installed and said is blows away his prior dual amp system (a/d/s). I am looking to replace my PH30, which has been just great, in my M3, since it lost a channel, and I want more juice for my subs (twin 8's in small BP). I think the 600 watts, about 2x the power, would do just the trick.

I want to hear his system and see some kind of legit review, and then I can make a more informed decision.

Rick


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## Lanson

Yes, I'm hearing more and more good things. I think some people figured it would FIX system problems, like harshness in the highrange or something. Of course the best we can expect an amp to do is to simply amplify what we give it without adding anything, and it looks like it does just that.


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## sapp591

I'am not to good at reviews but what I will say. My previous set up Alpine pdx 100.4 and 600.1. Replaced by a Leviathan and Kronos. I'am running my Front Hertz comp and rear 5x7 alpine type r's on the Leviathan (not using ch's 5 and 6 yet). Hopefully adding a pait of 8's for more mid bass later. I'am running the Kronos on a pair of Boston G5 10's bridged 8 ohms. 
My old set up (Alpine PDX amps) wont even hold a candle to the Zeds in SQ and output hands down! When I add two 8's into the system, that should make it complete. 
I could've just bought the Leviathan only, but I have so many more options with both Zed's. When you look at the cost around 1050.00 for both, why buy Jl, Alpine, and many others. Just my opinon.


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## orangelss

I have only used mine to drive a set of 8" seas that I have glassed in the doors. Been playing them from 40hz to 350hz. So in that limited band with I have been very happy with the Leviathan. I have a second gen with no "pop" issue. Amp is very transparent, na additions or subtractions to the sound. That is agains a ESX 75.2, wich adds a little edge compared to the Lev.

As for my Kronos will let you know if it doesn't sell and I break down and install it.

Build quality is superb and detailed. The new connectors are a dream to use. Over all a very happy customer. Steave has made another soon to be legend amp. Put the ESX back in the closet to rest for the time being.


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## cubdenno

orangelss said:


> I have only used mine to drive a set of 8" seas that I have glassed in the doors. Been playing them from 40hz to 350hz. So in that limited band with I have been very happy with the Leviathan. I have a second gen with no "pop" issue. Amp is very transparent, na additions or subtractions to the sound. That is agains a ESX 75.2, wich adds a little edge compared to the Lev.
> 
> As for my Kronos will let you know if it doesn't sell and I break down and install it.
> 
> Build quality is superb and detailed. The new connectors are a dream to use. Over all a very happy customer. Steave has made another soon to be legend amp. Put the ESX back in the closet to rest for the time being.


Will give a review when orangelss lets me use his to try out. Should be here any day now!:laugh:


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## snaimpally

The form factor to power looks very good and of course there is Steve's reputation, but I heistated because of the whole full range class D thing. I may eventually get a Leviathan as 150 x 2 and 300 x 2 would be a step up in power from my DD S4 (100 x 2 and 200 x 2).


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## orangelss

^^^ah no^^^ LOL

Do we have anyone on the forum that can test amps? Full freq graphs, true out put, ect, ect. Might be willing to send amp off to be tested. Give the forum a true idea?


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## turbo5upra

I called last week,.......He has two people who have reviewed and he seemed excited about the results. I'm sure if someone on here called and explained why and such he would work something out to review/test it. 





orangelss said:


> ^^^ah no^^^ LOL
> 
> Do we have anyone on the forum that can test amps? Full freq graphs, true out put, ect, ect. Might be willing to send amp off to be tested. Give the forum a true idea?


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## Hedonistic1

I would really love to see a full test on these amps and a full comparison against other amps such as Arc, Audison, DLS, genesis, Tru, ect.ect.


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## Lanson

orangelss said:


> ^^^ah no^^^ LOL
> 
> Do we have anyone on the forum that can test amps? Full freq graphs, true out put, ect, ect. Might be willing to send amp off to be tested. Give the forum a true idea?


\Maybe Chad


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## orangelss

Sent Ant a pm about it also. Doesn't look like the Kronos is going to sell so will send both if anyone wants to chip in on shipping. It will be after the first of the year before I will get around to really using them. So if their gone for a month no big deal.


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## 6spdcoupe

Hedonistic1 said:


> I would really love to see a full test on these amps and a full comparison against other amps such as Arc, Audison, DLS, genesis, Tru, ect.ect.


I can certainly do this and have a fair amount of amps to compare to in a controlled environment. I would need some volunteered ears though as mine could come across as biased.


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## Hedonistic1

I think both the Zed amps fit my power requirements and my budget but if the SQ is not there then i will look elsewhere. A true sound quality test is in order for sure!


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## SummerGuy

if anyone is interested i sell my leviathian. not my taste .


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## turbo5upra

I wouldn't mind throwing in on shipping, I wouldn't mind visiting during the testing if you have any extra room 



6spdcoupe said:


> I can certainly do this and have a fair amount of amps to compare to in a controlled environment. I would need some volunteered ears though as mine could come across as biased.


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## Hedonistic1

SummerGuy said:


> if anyone is interested i sell my leviathian. not my taste .


Please explain and what other Amps do you have to reference by?


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## MaXaZoR

6spdcoupe said:


> I can certainly do this and have a fair amount of amps to compare to in a controlled environment. I would need some volunteered ears though as mine could come across as biased.


I'd lend my ears to this noteworthy cause. I'd love to compare it to those Sinfonis/Genensis and Tru amps you have laying around. I'm sure Tristan might have some other goodness he could share as well.


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## SummerGuy

Hedonistic1 said:


> Please explain and what other Amps do you have to reference by?


sorry for my english first 



i bought a new cdt sqa4100 ...so i have for chanel for my 4 midbass es-06....(4 ohm load to each chanel... i want big control for them hehe)

and another sqa4100 for my midrange and tweeter.


the sound is more deetailed with the cdt...the sound is also warmer...i do not like the leviathian..because in the 4000hz+ it lose some detail....BUt the sound is easier to locate....

that is my taste...

the representative of cdt in canada...said me the same thing...and this is why cdt doesn't ask zed to do their amp line now...

before..cdt amp were made by zed btw.


this two amps are very diferent.


the cdt has also a more Consistent sound.
the leviathian has a clair sound...light sound...and again i prefer consistant.

edit:

and the difference between the two is not small....it is as big as you can said there is no biases there...but again...everyone has their taste.


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## Lanson

Why not use Summer Guy's, since he's not liking it?


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## SummerGuy

fourthmeal said:


> Why not use Summer Guy's, since he's not liking it?


yeah lol why dont use mine ..i could sell it to someone and you test it

i edited my comparison post


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## Hedonistic1

Thanks summer guy for your input on the new Zed amps. it is the same info i have been hearing from others so i am a bit disappointed as it would have fit my application perfect. Most people have suggested multiple DLS amps for my application so that's my #1 choice for amps right now.


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## SummerGuy

you are welcome.!

some guys here dont like when i do reviews(but when i say something i am objetive..they have to understand this!)(they protect zed like a mother protect her kids...)! ............i assume ...i bought an amp and it doesnt fit my taste...that's it  

thanks .


But if someone want this amp feel free to contact me by email

[email protected]


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## Blackcharger06

6spdcoupe said:


> I can certainly do this and have a fair amount of amps to compare to in a controlled environment. I would need some volunteered ears though as mine could come across as biased.


I think we all know how that test would come out. TRU?


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## roller

I wonder why some people claim it is the best amp ever and some people don't like it.

Maybe some of them could be defective?


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## SummerGuy

or ..people who always buy zed amps has no point of comparison...or they dont want to admit that they bought an amp they dont like


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## sapp591

I like mine! I must be stupid! My ears must be bronze instead of golden! 

What do you think of your health care up there! Being you smarter than everyone else!


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## Hedonistic1

sapp591 said:


> I like mine! I must be stupid! My ears must be bronze instead of golden!
> 
> What do you think of your health care up there! Being you smarter than everyone else!



Ok you like yours. Can you tell us the rest of your setup and what amps you have used most recently?


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## sapp591

Read my post on the first page! I already did that.


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## SummerGuy

sapp591 said:


> I like mine! I must be stupid! My ears must be bronze instead of golden!
> 
> What do you think of your health care up there! Being you smarter than everyone else!


i didnt say that...happy you like yours...wtf...i just did a REVIEWWWW


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## sapp591

SummerGuy said:


> or ..people who always buy zed amps has no point of comparison...or they dont want to admit that they bought an amp they dont like


Well, this looks more like an attack than a review. IMO


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## SummerGuy

sapp591 said:


> Well, this looks more like an attack than a review. IMO


that's a point on the debate, i myself bought an amp...


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## turbo5upra

I am buying one this week,.... If for nothing else the fact that whenever I call, he is always great on the phone. That and If I don't like it i'm out 40 bucks.... anyone want to review it with me? I'm 4 hours north of the city, haven't been in a year and could use a trip down..........

6sp If you want to host a mini demo I'll provide an amp....


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## neomsport

Finally got to hear my friends system Saturday, and it was all he said it was.
His system is way more dynamic then it was last time I got a demo.

Today looking for car audio reviews and sites, I found this;

audio gear reviews - Amplifier Review - ZED Audio Leviathan

Seems like they really liked the amp alot, which is all I needed to hear, so I ordered one today. I am going to run it in 6-ch tri-amp
mode to start, with passive on the tw/mids in doors. Should give me about 1500 watts (!!!), which will be about 
twice the juice of my current ads amp.

Hope to get in a couple days and will share my thoughts when I get it dialed in.

Rick


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## SummerGuy

> I began by testing channels 5&6. Here, the Leviathan delivered 186.3 watts per channel into 4-ohms with less than 1% distortion. Into 2-ohms, the output increased to 285.6 watts per channel into 2 ohms and over 571 watts when bridged into 4-ohms. When I lowered the battery voltage, to 12.6 volts, the power did drop but still well above its rated spec. I tested the other sets of channels and measured similar results.


suposed to have regulated power suply...


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## roller

Regulated power supply does not mean it can defy the laws of physics. The key factor is that it performs above its rated power level at all operating voltages.

Very interesting review.. The tested SNR might explain some noise floor issues as it is around 5dB less than some competitors. Although.. it can't really be considered bad.. :shrug:


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## MaXaZoR

Is that review serious about the manuals and online support?? That should be a 5 out of 5, just call Steve and I think the manual is a mini book with a wealth of knowledge.


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## neomsport

From what I understand, a "regulated" power supply means it will do two things; first it will deliver way more power into a 2 ohm load,
vs. a 4 ohm load, and second, it makes virtually the same power at all normal battery voltages.
So it does not require 14V to make full power (like most amps must have).

So there is no doubt that this amp is 'fully regulated,' as it meets both the above criteria.
I am not sure but I was told that there are almost NO Class D amps that are regulated
(are extremely rare), so it is apparently either hard to do, or expensive.

I recall that one of the things that made the Precision Power amps great and unique, back in the day, was that they used regulated supplies,
_so that is kinda cool._

I should have mine today or tomorrow...

Rick


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## Lanson

MaXaZoR said:


> Is that review serious about the manuals and online support?? That should be a 5 out of 5, just call Steve and I think the manual is a mini book with a wealth of knowledge.


Maybe he was knocking it because the site is in a state of change.

Of course being able to email or call Stephen directly should immediately make it 5/5. 

I saw that too and just thought, WTF does it take to score 5 here? The blueprints of the amp, maybe?


edit, wait a sec...was this guy's last review in '06?? Damn that's a hiatus!


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## Aaron Clinton

*The statement holds true, one unhappy voice is louder then 15 happy ones.*


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## Hedonistic1

I have heard more Negative than positive so far. I want more positive as this amps fits my build almost perfect!


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## SummerGuy

Hedonistic1 said:


> I have heard more Negative than positive so far. I want more positive as this amps fits my build almost perfect!



negativ just from me or another people...?


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## SummerGuy

i have pluged the levethian on my front stage...(midrange and tweeter)...

i could say that the sound is lighte...but not consistent...

maybe for me consident come with the micronoise from cdt if it had any.....( i now every amp has..but you know what i mean)

or maybe it is just because the zed lose some tdetail?like if it lose vitality...

is light sound a good way to start a system?...consistent or light sound...(i am not talking about the level here...) i mean ligt like...if the sound would dissipate easily for the hears..
someone could guide me on that?


i am waiting for you replies...


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## neomsport

I have clearly seen and heard far more positive than otherwise (signal to noise ratio), especially if you consider the majority of 'noise' is from one source.

By contrast, the results of the reports from credible sources appears to be overwhelmingly positive, both objectively (measured) and subjectively (opinion).
According to AGR, the amp sounds great, exceeds it's specs (even at a real-world 12v). 
AND is super efficient (so I won't spend a dime to upgrade the stock electrical system), for $600? That's less than the price for just a JL 450.4 or either of their HD amps alone.

So that I think is pretty much the whole package, as far as I am concerned.
Will have a true, A / B comparison once my amp gets here.

Rick


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## Boostedrex

SummerGuy said:


> or ..people who always buy zed amps has no point of comparison...or they dont want to admit that they bought an amp they dont like


I wouldn't say that they don't have a basis for comparison, but I do agree that most Zed Audio fans are pretty die hard and they don't take kindly to hearing negative press about those amps. I'm a HUGE fan of Zed's class A/B work. But I've heard 3 or 4 negative reviews on these as well. All of them mentioned high noise floors and sketchy upper frequency response. But nobody mentioned a lack of power or solid construction. 

Fact is, full range class D isn't for everybody. The sooner people realize that and stop trying to argue otherwise we'll all be better off. I have not heard these amps for myself so I can't/won't pass judgement on them. But I have no doubt that they are quality amps seeing as Mr. Mantz sees it fit to put his company name on them. Just my .02 on the subject.

And to anyone else who feels the need to try and start any drama in here, I highly suggest you resist that urge. It's ok for people to not like what you like. It doesn't make either of you better or worse.


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## Lanson

SummerGuy said:


> i have pluged the levethian on my front stage...(midrange and tweeter)...
> 
> i could say that the sound is lighte...but not consistent...
> 
> maybe for me consident come with the micronoise from cdt if it had any.....( i now every amp has..but you know what i mean)
> 
> or maybe it is just because the zed lose some tdetail?like if it lose vitality...
> 
> is light sound a good way to start a system?...consistent or light sound...(i am not talking about the level here...) i mean ligt like...if the sound would dissipate easily for the hears..
> someone could guide me on that?
> 
> 
> i am waiting for you replies...



I don't know dude. The amp probably just amplifies what it is sent, most likely ruler-flat and predictable. Send it another signal, like from an iPod directly connected or something, or perhaps a quality head unit, and then decide. 

Amps should do nothing to the signal other than copy it, and amplify it. Exception: tube amps. Zed knows tubes, too. Trust me, I have seen the light there.


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## Lanson

SummerGuy said:


> i have pluged the levethian on my front stage...(midrange and tweeter)...
> 
> i could say that the sound is lighte...but not consistent...
> 
> maybe for me consident come with the micronoise from cdt if it had any.....( i now every amp has..but you know what i mean)
> 
> or maybe it is just because the zed lose some tdetail?like if it lose vitality...
> 
> is light sound a good way to start a system?...consistent or light sound...(i am not talking about the level here...) i mean ligt like...if the sound would dissipate easily for the hears..
> someone could guide me on that?
> 
> 
> i am waiting for you replies...


Can you submit a pic of what your amp's settings are at? Descriptions are failing you right now, likely due to your grasp at English. Consider here that if someone speaks your native tongue fluently, perhaps they could translate better. I used to speak French decently.


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## SummerGuy

fourthmeal said:


> Can you submit a pic of what your amp's settings are at? Descriptions are failing you right now, likely due to your grasp at English. Consider here that if someone speaks your native tongue fluently, perhaps they could translate better. I used to speak French decently.



ok i will say it it french... dont know if you are good to translate it

j'ai esseyé l'amplis sur les tweeter, et je ne suis pas capable du tout..je ne suis pas le premier qui dit cela...il manque vraiment de quoi dans les hautes frequence...

les midranges, ca va...c'est moins pire, mais encore là le son manque de quelque chose. Le son est cassé , pas autent que sur les tweeters mais quand tu portes une attention particulière au détails...tu peux le remarquer.


Je donne une example pour les tweeter et les midrange...
admetton que le son c'est la l'etre A.

et que un son x dure AAAAAAAAA pour etre reproduit parfaitement....bien avec la leviathian ca donne AAAAAAA. Il manque ce que je pourrait apeler sans en connaitre le terme la continuité du son''' ....la petite fin qui te fais du bien au oreilles.



les midbass, tres dur a diferencier entre la cdt et la leviathian.


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## SummerGuy

fourthmeal said:


> Can you submit a pic of what your amp's settings are at? Descriptions are failing you right now, likely due to your grasp at English. Consider here that if someone speaks your native tongue fluently, perhaps they could translate better. I used to speak French decently.


the Leviathian xover setting are all set to flat. so there is not to much to show i think


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## Hedonistic1

i am looking for a direct comparison to DLS, tru, genesis, zapco, arc se ect. I spoken with one guy that has had the leviathan and dls amps at the same time, he much preferred the dls amps. i have been using zapco for years but i am looking for something different and with a smaller foot print for my next build. The Leviathan fits perfect to drive my 3 way front stage in my future build. it has the power i am looking for, the price is right, and it's size is right but considering the quality of my other components i am not sure the leviathan is up to par.

The people i have heard negative things from have had really great components surrounding their builds. In most of these cases the Leviathan went in and back out in a short amount of time. The good things i have heard people say don't mention what quality of components they had surrounding the amps. i mean any amp is going to sound like ass when played through walmart speakers. On that note how good are the installs of the people saying negative things? maybe they are blaming the amp instead of their install.

We need a true back to back to back test of the Leviathan with the same set up against some of the crowd favorites of Arc, Tru, Zapco, Audison, ect.ect. there are just too many variables involved to draw a true conclusion with out a test.


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## SummerGuy

Hedonistic1 said:


> i am looking for a direct comparison to DLS, tru, genesis, zapco, arc se ect. I spoken with one guy that has had the leviathan and dls amps at the same time, he much preferred the dls amps. i have been using zapco for years but i am looking for something different and with a smaller foot print for my next build. The Leviathan fits perfect to drive my 3 way front stage in my future build. it has the power i am looking for, the price is right, and it's size is right but considering the quality of my other components i am not sure the leviathan is up to par.
> 
> The people i have heard negative things from have had really great components surrounding their builds. In most of these cases the Leviathan went in and back out in a short amount of time. The good things i have heard people say don't mention what quality of components they had surrounding the amps. i mean any amp is going to sound like ass when played through walmart speakers. On that note how good are the installs of the people saying negative things? maybe they are blaming the amp instead of their install.
> 
> We need a true back to back to back test of the Leviathan with the same set up against some of the crowd favorites of Arc, Tru, Zapco, Audison, ect.ect. there are just too many variables involved to draw a true conclusion with out a test.


i got high quality component...but maybe you dont know them.

the source is a carputer i have done almost all of this : http://photos.imageevent.com/cics/v... art of building Computer Transports v0.3.pdf

and my sound card is the asus xonar d2. wich is one of the best sq sound card 

4 x cdt es-06 4ohm each drived by a cdt sqa4100 #2, (110w rms and 4ohm load per chanel, )
2 x cdt es-o10 6ohms 50 w per chanel in full full range ..but they are .crossed (xover) (drived by a cdt sqa4100 #1, 110w rms)
2x cdt es-04 4ohm 50 w rms in ful range... crossed agin (xover).. (drived by a cdt sqa4100#1, 4ohm load per chanel, 110w rms)
1x cdt qes-1220 4ohms 500w rms (drived buy an arc ks.300.2, 700 w rms bridged)

the cdt amps are built for quality.

but you need others review to compare.


----------



## Hispls

Hedonistic1 said:


> I have heard more Negative than positive so far. I want more positive as this amps fits my build almost perfect!


Those of us that are happy are out listening and enjoying, NOT in here sitting on the fence.

I sold my Deuce and Gladius this week that I swapped out and I'm not looking back. My sound is the same (more output on tap now...though I rarely push things these days). IMO Leviathan is a stellar product. 

If anyone has one they don't want shoot me a price shipped to 02675. Would also trade out my 3 Lanzar Opti500.2's even-up for one if you want 200X6 class A/B....LOL

Would also definitely trade/buy into Cronos


----------



## SummerGuy

see your pm


----------



## Hispls

SummerGuy said:


> see your pm


SWEET! 

Ready to put my money where my mouth is....


----------



## clbolt

Hispls said:


> SWEET!
> 
> Ready to put my money where my mouth is....


And I'd be willing to trade 3 BNIB Aura MR675H 6 channel amps for one new Leviathan. I'll take a slightly used Leviathan if it has absolutely zero signs of having been used (not a scratch, ding, or anything), and I get the original receipt.

Hell, I'll take a Leviathan that looks like it's been dragged behind a truck if the price is right. It's going to be concealed in my install anyway.


----------



## jmimac351

It's interesting reading through this thread and how some seem to really need confirmation of their purchase decision. Comparing one amp in one car with a certain set of speakers to a different brand with a different "reviewer" in a different car with different speakers is almost completely meaningless. I'm more concerned with finding a high quality product that isn't 90% marketing hype and "approved" by screen names of unknown experience or comparable tastes on the internet. 

I have an extremely high end home audio setup made by companies 99.9% of people have never heard of. These are small, <4 people outfits - sometimes smaller. I've had good success buying from people who have, literally, designed and built by hand what's in my living room. Between that and focusing on products with unique technologies, I've come to know there is a difference that passion makes and it's worth checking out to listen for yourself, regardless what anyone says... Besides, even if you are happy most will read another glowing "review" on the internet and think they must be missing out on something. 

Buy quality, EQ it to taste, then spend the rest on music.


----------



## sapp591

jmimac351 said:


> It's interesting reading through this thread and how some seem to really need confirmation of their purchase decision. Comparing one amp in one car with a certain set of speakers to a different brand with a different "reviewer" in a different car with different speakers is almost completely meaningless. I'm more concerned with finding a high quality product that isn't 90% marketing hype and "approved" by screen names of unknown experience or comparable tastes on the internet.
> 
> I have an extremely high end home audio setup made by companies 99.9% of people have never heard of. These are small, <4 people outfits - sometimes smaller. I've had good success buying from people who have, literally, designed and built by hand what's in my living room. Between that and focusing on products with unique technologies, I've come to know there is a difference that passion makes and it's worth checking out to listen for yourself, regardless what anyone says... Besides, even if you are happy most will read another glowing "review" on the internet and think they must be missing out on something.
> 
> Buy quality, EQ it to taste, then spend the rest on music.





Agreed!!!!!


----------



## SummerGuy

i have to agree to...


----------



## Boring

Here's another review I received from Steve today

View attachment ZED-PAS.PDF


----------



## neomsport

Wow! Looks like the reviewer REALLY liked the amp a lot. I have not seen that issue, yet, but I really love PAS reviews,
especially from that one guy. He really knows his stuff. Seems like his test numbers and comments were very similar to
those from the Audio Gear review.

I finally got my Leviathan installed and tuned over the weekend and all I can say is that it is just incredible! Way more low-end
grunt, and even the midbass is tighter and more punchy.

I think the Linkwitz 24 dB slopes really help this, since I not only have more juice to the midbass, approx 600 watts (same as sub),
but now I can push them way harder, since they see virtually nothing undrer 50 Hz, so less distortion, but pretty sure I have
reached their excursion limits (when I really nail it).

I was kinda concerned the stock M3 electrical system might not like dealing with 1,500 watts, but so far not problem, even today
running lights and wipers etc. 

Really happy I waited to see some independent documentation on the product and _that IS all THAT!_ This is no doubt 
THE best $600 I have spent on my system since I added by Zapco Px.

Now I need to find a new home for my a/d/s PH 30...

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## Hispls

neomsport said:


> Wow! Looks like the reviewer REALLY liked the amp a lot. I have not seen that issue, yet, but I really love PAS reviews,
> especially from that one guy. He really knows his stuff. Seems like his test numbers and comments were very similar to
> those from the Audio Gear review.
> 
> I finally got my Leviathan installed and tuned over the weekend and all I can say is that it is just incredible! Way more low-end
> grunt, and even the midbass is tighter and more punchy.
> 
> I think the Linkwitz 24 dB slopes really help this, since I not only have more juice to the midbass, approx 600 watts (same as sub),
> but now I can push them way harder, since they see virtually nothing undrer 50 Hz, so less distortion, but pretty sure I have
> reached their excursion limits (when I really nail it).
> 
> I was kinda concerned the stock M3 electrical system might not like dealing with 1,500 watts, but so far not problem, even today
> running lights and wipers etc.
> 
> Really happy I waited to see some independent documentation on the product and _that IS all THAT!_ This is no doubt
> THE best $600 I have spent on my system since I added by Zapco Px.
> 
> Now I need to find a new home for my a/d/s PH 30...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Rick


Ditto. Not many mids will keep up with 2 channels of this bridged. Mine saves space, current draw, has power that I won't even use, AND is sexy as all hell. Ditto...money well spent and I'll be picking up a second just to have (possibly a gift for my business partner this winter)


----------



## neomsport

Well put! Not surprised you wowed by the amp, and are looking to get another Leviathan. I think I will buy a second one too,
as my wife's car is past due for an upgrade from my JL 300/500 amps she has had in there for several years. The Lev would
double the power on the front/rears, and bump the sub output to 600 plus real watts (that's like the cost for just a sub amp!).
I would have to step-up to 1kw on the subs to make any kind of audible difference in output, and that would be pretty modest,I
MHO.

Not sure if you saw news post on MotorMusic, but certainly shows that Zed has opted to spare no expense in building their
new amps, unlike most brands these days. 

MotorMusicMag.com - The art & technology of the automobile - Geariyaki

It is cool to have access to this kind of product and get to deal direct with the factory, _who actually seem interested in helping guy's like us out._

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## eddieg

Hi All, 

I would like to add my review about this from another thread I wrote it at as this one is my personal review and I want to paste it hear so here goes: 

Hi Everybody, 

I don't know if this thread is an old one or not but I would like to provide my opinion about this from two main reasons: 

1. I am a Leviathan owner and I had discussions about this amp with Stephen Mantz before and after buying it. 

I provided a whole review at the forum I usually write at (in Hebrew... that is ????????? - ????? \ ???????? - ????? ???) but now I wish to give a review about it here as well.

2. A very good friend of mine in Israel is a distributer of HAT (hybrid audio) and AA and also TRU products and I got to know all of the product line very well. 

But I would not like to compare between the two as I am not referring here to a blind test, in order to do so, one would have to take the billet six in front of the leviathan, adjust phases and gains and put in the car people that do not know what they are listening to, more than this, on a car that would not have a suitable electric system the leviathan would have a very big advantage due to it's energy consumption technology which I will soon explain about. 

And the other reason why I would not do that is that at the end sound is very personal and one can only choose for him self at the end of the day. 

TRU amps - kick ass, no doubt about it, but I decided to purchase a ZED Leviathan due to many other reasons that are not related to sound only. 

------ review --------

Why did I buy the Leviathan? 

I believe that during the following years to come we will start to see either less and less of big, fuel wasting cars and more and more of micro cars with tiny electrical systems - the audio systems we are using today would oppose a very big problem - not with the Leviathan. 

The Leviathan is saving energy in two different ways: 

a. It is class D amplifier.
b. The power supplier (PSU) has two sets of voltage rails... one of them is used for full wattage and the other is used for low watt and current consumption. 

The thing is that this is either or amplifier - it can work as a 33*6 WATT amp when the current draw is low or low for at least 4 seconds. 
Or it can work as a 150*6 WATT amplifier when required. 

This is the real deal behind the energy consumption of this amp - technology 

The other reason I baught it was it's size! - If I am heading my self to a future of small cars then size is a really big issue, did you think how you would ever fit a TRU billet six in to a Toyota Yaris??? oops there it is... 

Don't forget the sub, it's amp if required, sound processor and who knows what else - nothing would be left from the bagage...

------- my talk about class D and SQ with Stephen ----

Well I come from a field of electronic which I can not speak about but I know some thing about peaking time in tearms of millie seconds... 

The Leviathan/Kronos are using a peaking time of 25 nano seconds for the class D switching rate - there is no way in HELL a human ear could spot that!

And the disturtion level is (THD) very very low - so there should not be any affect on sound quality just because this is a class D amp.

And it has high grade quality build and parts invested in to it and it is also a very efficient and strong amplifier. 

My instincts told me - this should be interesting. 

So I baught it. 

At this point I wish to thank Stephen and Joyce for the worm treatment I received along the way. 

------------ reviews ----- before and after

My car audio system is as follows:

HU - would be carpc, for now clarion source, simple head unit
Processor - Audison bit one
Frontal - Leviathan running HAT L1+L4 at kickpanel + AA havoc 7 in doors
Sub - Aura Sound NS10 5series on Sundown SAE-1000D monoblock 

Car - Toyota corolla 2007 (told you, we drive small and efficient cars in IL)

Before I had a kicker KX600.4 and a SONY XM 2025 

The sony is actually an old school and it is rather good - but... you will find out soon.

Well the sony died along the way and it is now waiting to be fixed and I used an old sherwood amp but still the "but" remains the same...

I got the Leviathan and at the very minute I hooked it up and turned it on I noticed that the sound is way way way more clear and sharp than it was with the kicker and sony.

After I set the gains I noticed that the high notes are extreemly distorted and not detailed but I coulnd not put my finger on why that is - still, even so, the sound system was so bright and vivid that it was uncomparable to the before.

My AA havocs sounded as if I just through two layers of sound dedening on my doors (it is a leased car from my work place and I will soon return it so no car pc for now and no sound deadning) and I just realized, I did not even start to use them... 

This is just by turning the amp on and tuning it. 

------ system tuning --------

Since my twitters were amplified in separate of the mids and woofers I had to turn the phase for the mids and twitters to connect them and focus them.

now as all of my frontal is on one amps - phases should be all the same and I should only play with the crossover slopes (which this is were the big WOW is at...) 

I turned the phases correctly and suddenly all the missing detail in the high notes, most of it, came back and there was no disturtion. 

But still - the lower voice of the singers was suddenly missing and human voice was very squeeky - the reason was that now my AA havocs are not being smeared any more by that kicker amp and they are clear and focused.

I then changed the cross point between the havocs and L4s from 150Hz to 300Hz and the squeeky voices are no more... 

---- stage hight -----

I had an issue running on the kicker and sony that forced me to set the cross point between the L4 and the L1 to 9KHz in order to raise the hight of the sound stage up, if I set it to 7K it would lower the hight and 5.5 was something not to speak about. 

Then when I swapped to the ZED this phenomenon no longer existed, no matter if the cross point was 9K or 7K or 5.5K the sound stage hight hardly moved if at all. 

This has something to do with either the fact that the ZED really gets all the current it is required for or simply it is realy much stronger and stable and efficient. 

And I really prefer much more that the cross point is at 5.5K now as it gives the soundstage much more depth and instrument detail, plus the continueity of sound is felt much better, echos and stuff like that. 

------ to sum up -----------

The sound is human and natural when I am listening to vocals.
When listening to electronic - it is a total blast.

I do get excited and I do not feel or could not possibly tell that this is a class D amplifier. 

When I gave pepole in IL to listen to my car system - some of them were very surprised, at that point the sound system was not even tuned... only gains... 


It is a hell of a bargain for it's price, it can defenetly put up a serious fight to high grade amps may be even high end amps and with correct tuning it could also win many high grade amps but this is for another fight. 

As for a product by it self - SQ? high grade, efficient? - I think one of the best grades ever to be given to an audio amplifier, cost? no argue, size? I know 2 channel amps which are bigger than that... Weight - not too shabby

If you thinking of buying this one - it's probably a good idea 

Eddie


----------



## neomsport

Cool system.

How do you like the Bit One? I use a Zapco DAII and it is sweet, but nothing like what the B/O can do.

I am really still just so impressed with my Leviathan, so I ordered a second one today, to beat the price increase. 
I guess I had forgotten how much I really love tweaking systems, I guess I have kinda taken it for granted over the
past couple years. Good to get my mojo back on my hobby again.

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## eddieg

How do I like the Bit One? 

Well... I am working on a carpc at the moment and using an audigy 2 ZS with kx project driver pack alone I can remove the bit one from my system, but, it has such a wonderful GUI and it is so easy to configure (user friendly) that I don't even want to deal with KX project and since I am using a digital source and a digital processor - optical output and inputs all the way to the bit one...

The only two places where I would use analog would be from the bit one to the amplifiers and the volume control of the DRC which is analog. 

So... I am keeping it


----------



## neomsport

Cool info on the system and BitOne.

I will be installing my second Leviathan over the weekend. Will be interesting to see how this system, front and rear
2-way sats and one mono 12, will compare to my M3's system, which is 3-way front and dual 8's.
Can't wait to see how that sounds with the 2x power on tap.

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## eddieg

the question is if you really need so much power. 

I thought about replacing my aura NS10 with two pearless 10" XXLS subwoofers and by that buying the Kronos to amplify both of them in separate. 

but then I realized that this single 10" humble sub is all I need so... no Kronos for me


----------



## rugdnit

This question is for those of you that have had a fair amount of time listening to your amp. I got a Leviathan from the first GB and have a Kronos on the way ( waiting for spring to install ). In other threads there were a few guys that did not care for the upper range of these amps-- 2 khz range referring to " artifact ". What do you make of this? After several months of listening what are your assessments?


----------



## Luke352

rugdnit said:


> This question is for those of you that have had a fair amount of time listening to your amp. I got a Leviathan from the first GB and have a Kronos on the way ( waiting for spring to install ). In other threads there were a few guys that did not care for the upper range of these amps-- 2 khz range referring to " artifact ". What do you make of this? After several months of listening what are your assessments?



No problems, in fact I would go as far to say the top end is cleaner, definitely more listenable at high volumes actually at all volumes I would say it sounds more natural and blends better, it just seems less strained overall.

Previously I was using a combination of Coustic DR's and AudioSystem F2>500's.


----------



## neomsport

I have had my Leviathan for a while now and have had no issues of any sort. It is far more power then what I am used to, but then mo' power is ALLways mo' better. 
I would characterize the sound and unrestrained and very clean, but not 'sterile' or anything of that sort. I have dome mids in the doors 
(stock tweeter location), and they are very revealing, but I have not heard anything that sounds like an artifact of the amps switching or
anything like that.

I am still on the honeymoon with my system.

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## rugdnit

Good to hear that you guys are enjoying yours so much. I cannot wait to get mine fired up!


----------



## Hispls

rugdnit said:


> This question is for those of you that have had a fair amount of time listening to your amp. I got a Leviathan from the first GB and have a Kronos on the way ( waiting for spring to install ). In other threads there were a few guys that did not care for the upper range of these amps-- 2 khz range referring to " artifact ". What do you make of this? After several months of listening what are your assessments?


Still no regrets on unloading Deuce and Gladius for this. Only regret not grabbing another one before the price went up the start of the year.


----------



## lil goat

I installed my Leviathan last weekend, very simple system, Eclipse AVN726e and a Leviathan, 2 Image Dynamics CS64's and a 10" MB Quart sub with the motor on the front all in a Pontiac Solstice. Tweeters on 1&2 in factory a pillars mids in factory door position on 4&5 sub in factory location on 5&6 dual VC 2 ohm so 300 each to the sub inputs, 1&2 HPF, 3&4 BP, Sub LPF, everything I needed to tri amp was built into the Leviathan. The system is simple and clean. I had it up pretty loud the other day and it was very clean at extremely loud volume. I am very pleased, I had a very limited amount of space to work with and used every bit of it. The car was fully treated with sounddeadeningshowdown kit before the install, Rudeboy helped me install it and he is the on who introduced me to Zed, although I had been running his amps for years and didn't know it. My first real quality amp was a Zeus way way back. I was very limited on what would get me where I wanted to go do to the space constraints, Zed made it easy and gives me more power and versatility than I would have thought possible. So for me it does exactly what I needed it to do, and sounds better than I expected.


----------



## rugdnit

keep it coming guys! when I get everything set up I will be doing a direct A/B comparison with some of my favorite old school amps -- 2 Sony XM5540's bridged on mid / high duty from 89-90-- very clean and plenty of power.


Zac


----------



## audiogodz1

This months Performance Auto & Sound reviews the Zed Leviathan! Grab a copy and check it out. Good stuff.


----------



## t3sn4f2

audiogodz1 said:


> This months Performance Auto & Sound reviews the Zed Leviathan! Grab a copy and check it out. Good stuff.


Isn't that the one listed in his website and posted here a while back?


----------



## audiogodz1

Yes. It is current this month. The magazine is out right now, not past tense. The review is on the zed site as well, just noticed (thanks). So at least grab the review from the zed site if you haven't.  http://www.zedaudiocorp.com/Downloads/ZED-PAS.PDF

There's something about the Zed amps that nobody has mentioned and I don't know if it is just because people aren't paying attention or they can't believe what the are seeing. Hifonics have long been "the original zed amp". When everyone thinks of Zed they say Hifonics. You can look at the side of the Leviathan and see the familiar old school Hifonics arrowed adjustment knobs, the softly rounded push buttons, the sharply square design with the small raised heat sinks... and you realize....... Maxxsonics only owns the name, the 2010 Hifonics amps are being built by the hand that built the original amps. These truly are all the old school quality of the old Hifonics amps, being built into the 2010 technology, by the only person that knows how to build them. They called the old Hifonics amps Zed amps, ..............now they can call the new Zed amps the old Hifonics amps made new again. 

IMO this is the most exciting development in Car audio in over a decade.


----------



## Gary Mac

To all you guys that already own the LEV, Im considering it for my sub, midbass and rears with a seperate tweeter amp. (Arc FD possibly)

How would you say the lev is in terms of midbass from 63hz to 2.5k? Im not worried about the sub and Im not really worried about my fill either - except that the 150 per channel will be too much for the fill.


----------



## lil goat

Gary Mac said:


> To all you guys that already own the LEV, Im considering it for my sub, midbass and rears with a seperate tweeter amp. (Arc FD possibly)
> 
> How would you say the lev is in terms of midbass from 63hz to 2.5k? Im not worried about the sub and I'm not really worried about my fill either - except that the 150 per channel will be too much for the fill.


 It depends on how you set it up, all Zed amps pretty much just reproduce what you put in. Each pair of channels are independently configurable for both crossover points and gain. You can make it do just about whatever you want. I am running my front tweeters of channel 1&2 works very well and they don't need 150 each, just turned down the gain for channel 1&2. It would seem people either don't understand or don't read how this amp can be configured. There are 14? different configurations in the owners manual, if I remember correctly if you use the bandpass channel 2&3 won't go below 80, but you don't have to use the bandpass mine is set at 80-3000, tweets are 3000 up. That is until it gets warm enough to set it up with the RTA. There are so many options with this amp!


----------



## rugdnit

Luke352 said:


> No problems, in fact I would go as far to say the top end is cleaner, definitely more listenable at high volumes actually at all volumes I would say it sounds more natural and blends better, it just seems less strained overall.
> 
> Previously I was using a combination of Coustic DR's and AudioSystem F2>500's.


Luke
I finally got some listening time in and I couldn't agree more. Very accurate description. I think all is this anti full range class d is premature or even biased. VERY HAPPY SO FAR!


----------



## Aaron Clinton

rugdnit said:


> Luke
> I finally got some listening time in and I couldn't agree more. Very accurate description. I think all is this anti full range class d is premature or even biased. VERY HAPPY SO FAR!


*That is awesome to hear. Mr. Mantz would be the best person to talk to as to why the new ZED full range class D amps are different then the other full range class D / ICE amps.*


----------



## rugdnit

denim said:


> *That is awesome to hear. Mr. Mantz would be the best person to talk to as to why the new ZED full range class D amps are different then the other full range class D / ICE amps.*


Aaron
In the months leading up to the release Steve answered all my questions via email. He was very kind and prompt in all of his responses. I am guilty of getting caught up in too much reading here and not getting off my a$$ to play with them more. I will have more time over the next few months to start my install. Oct-Mar in my business is generally extremely busy. I want to thank Steve for his dedication to his customers and you Aaron for going out of your way to do the group buys'.

Z


----------



## Aaron Clinton

*Awe shucks.*


----------



## angel dust

rugdnit said:


> Aaron
> In the months leading up to the release Steve answered all my questions via email. He was very kind and prompt in all of his responses. I am guilty of getting caught up in too much reading here and not getting off my a$$ to play with them more. I will have more time over the next few months to start my install. Oct-Mar in my business is generally extremely busy. I want to thank Steve for his dedication to his customers and you Aaron for going out of your way to do the group buys'.
> 
> Z



i talked with steve yesterday... this guy knows his ****! i already had my mind made up with what amps i was gonna go with.... he just put more icing on the cake. i love how you can run the crossovers flat on all channels... use your sound processor to adjust. i'm really digging these amps!


----------



## Gary Mac

He gave me a link to a nice little read on his equipment that is located on the website. I learned a lot. Im really worried about the noise issue that I have read on here, although others say they have no noise at all. I keep saying to myself, this guy knows what he is doing so they have to be ok.... Wish I could hear it before I bought it.


----------



## rugdnit

Gary Mac-- I think alot of it has to do with guys not reading the installation manual thoroughly. Perhaps some guys are just installing them like their last set of amps and expecting the same thing or better, but if you do not read and fully absorb all the details of the installation manual then you will miss a key detail and not get the results you were expecting.


----------



## Gary Mac

I see what you are saying, I've noticed you have a few threads on here- are you satisfied with the amp?


----------



## johnhancock

the kronos amp looks very interesting. it puts out 1000rms bridged at 4 ohms. sounds like the perfect amp to go with the morel ultimo 12


----------



## rugdnit

I did not have too long to listen to it or tweak with it, I did not experience any of the things that others have complained about.

Z


----------



## HertzGuy

rugdnit said:


> Gary Mac-- I think alot of it has to do with guys not reading the installation manual thoroughly. Perhaps some guys are just installing them like their last set of amps and expecting the same thing or better, but if you do not read and fully absorb all the details of the installation manual then you will miss a key detail and not get the results you were expecting.


Can you explain these subtle nuances at all....


----------



## rugdnit

HertzGuy said:


> Can you explain these subtle nuances at all....


Everything is available on his website. Take the time to READ and fully ABSORB what the manuals say.


----------



## Gary Mac

I cant, still learning..


----------



## neomsport

I have also found that Zed (Steve) is very helpful and generous in answering questions.
You can really tell these are HIS products.

I now seriously thinking about adding another Leviathan and going all 'active' up front
(3-way), and use the second amp for just the subs and rear fill midbass. So then I would have about 1kw up front
plus 1kw on the subs (2 ohms) and could dial in both the rear 'fill' and the front system with complete control. 
That would be freakin' awsome I think...

Happy that Zed has not raised their prices yet. Still an amazing deal for a true audiophile SQ, Class D system amp,
IMHO. Now I just need to find the time to do it.

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## Gary Mac

This is my last question for this thread and then Im going to pull the trigger I think.

If I get a LEV, its going to only power sub, rears and mids. 

Here is my question, will my mids (up to 2.5 - 3K) sound any different with a Leviathian vs. a Zapco reference or any similar AB amp?


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

I would love to give a review but I STILL have not received my ZED stuff from SSA... 18 days after they took my money, I still don't even have a tracking number. ( After I was promised it would be shipped first thing Wed. morn )

I am super tempted to dispute it with PP, and go a different route.


----------



## rugdnit

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;967109 said:


> I would love to give a review but I STILL have not received my ZED stuff from SSA... 18 days after they took my money, I still don't even have a tracking number. ( After I was promised it would be shipped first thing Wed. morn )
> 
> I am super tempted to dispute it with PP, and go a different route.


REALLY??? I bought a Leviathan from the first group buy and it took about a month and a half to receive it. I never received a tracking number on that transaction, but between Aaron and Mantz I was not worried since they have strong reps. I placed an order for a Kronos on the second group buy and am patiently waiting. You do know that these amps are built to order don't you?


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

rugdnit said:


> REALLY??? I bought a Leviathan from the first group buy and it took about a month and a half to receive it. I never received a tracking number on that transaction, but between Aaron and Mantz I was not worried since they have strong reps. I placed an order for a Kronos on the second group buy and am patiently waiting. You do know that these amps are built to order don't you?




I do know it was built for me. The timing is not the issue, I have a problem with being promised something, only to have it not happen. Mark ( @ SSA ) gave me his word that my Kronos was done, burnt in and would be shipped out first thing Wed. morning from Cali. to Las Vegas ( UPS ground is ALWAYS here in 1 day ). Also, my last phone messages and emails have not been returned by SSA.

I have no problems with waiting, as long as I am not left hanging.....

My Lev. is coming directly from ZED, but not ordered at the same time.

It's unfortunate. Mark was extremely nice on the phone, and I had high hopes for future business with the company, as I have a LOT of things left to buy for my builds.


----------



## neomsport

Gary Mac said:


> This is my last question for this thread and then Im going to pull the trigger I think.
> 
> If I get a LEV, its going to only power sub, rears and mids.
> 
> Here is my question, will my mids (up to 2.5 - 3K) sound any different with a Leviathian vs. a Zapco reference or any similar AB amp?


I guess that would depend on what you mean by "any different." Certainly the Zapco amp are excellent, but not sure if GS at PAS would classify
them as being 'as good' as his "reference" amp is (which he favorably compared the Leviathan with).

It is always better to have extra power on-tap, and the Lev would certainly give you that. I would doubt you would ever use the full output capability
on your rear speakers (if they are just 'fill), but both the reviews I have read show both stellar SQ and low noise etc. specs, so I would say it would
sound at least as good (if not better).

I know my SQ was significantly improved, both in terms of dynamics, loudness and musicality, vs. by prior amp (a/d/s PH 30.2), 
or the JL Slash amps that came out of my wife's car.

I cannot imagine you will not be very happy with the upgrade.

Rick


----------



## Gary Mac

Thanks


----------



## Aaron Clinton

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;967357 said:


> I do know it was built for me. The timing is not the issue, I have a problem with being promised something, only to have it not happen. Mark ( @ SSA ) gave me his word that my Kronos was done, burnt in and would be shipped out first thing Wed. morning from Cali. to Las Vegas ( UPS ground is ALWAYS here in 1 day ). Also, my last phone messages and emails have not been returned by SSA.
> 
> I have no problems with waiting, as long as I am not left hanging.....
> 
> My Lev. is coming directly from ZED, but not ordered at the same time.
> 
> It's unfortunate. Mark was extremely nice on the phone, and I had high hopes for future business with the company, as I have a LOT of things left to buy for my builds.


*As stated in prior emails, all emails that we have are answered as I am staring at the in box right now. If you are who I am guessing you are, Mark has answered most of your phone calls, and relayed the information to you that was given to us by ZED. I have tried calling ZED multiple times in Friday and now multiple times today with no answer. I will keep calling until I do get an answer. There is no need to bash us and say that about the emails not being answered when I can see the inbox. We bust our butts answering emails 24/7 and aim to catch as many in coming calls as possible. Heck I answer emails during my commute while stuck in traffic on I-95, and even in bed while the wife is giving me dirty looks. If we did not get back to you on one of your phone calls, that is probably due to the fact that the news has not changed from the prior time. If there was a delay in shipping the amp out, I am working hard on trying to find that out. There are a number of people who are awaiting their Kronos and Leviathan's. Much of that delay was because of a few parts that ran out at ZED that they were waiting on. We cannot make ZED work any faster then they already are. I apologize that the amplifier is not there yet. As I stated earlier, these amps are not sitting in inventory as they are built to order, so they take time to build and burn in. And ZED has been slammed with the group buy orders that came in and the number of orders just after the group buy. Again, I apologize that your amplifier is not there yet, and I will keep calling to find out.
*


----------



## t3sn4f2

denim said:


> *even in bed while the wife is giving me dirty looks.
> *


Damn, you turn down sex for work stuff?! Now that's dedication.


----------



## Aaron Clinton

t3sn4f2 said:


> Damn, you turn down sex for work stuff?! Now that's dedication.


*Oh heck no, I meant when she wants the lights off and the screen from the phone is illuminating the whole room.*


----------



## Aaron Clinton

*Was able to get a hold of ZED, and found out that in final testing before shipment, they found a few Kronos that had a issue with the boards, so they are working quickly to correct that.*


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

REALLY? And this is how you let me know, no call, no email?
I have to check a forum to find out about MY order?


----------



## newtitan

so are the random noise issues out of these yet? I know some have no issues, but ive read too many with issues,

so have the leviathons been hammered out yet?


----------



## JayBee

newtitan said:


> so are the random noise issues out of these yet? I know some have no issues, but ive read too many with issues,
> 
> so have the leviathons been hammered out yet?


I thought that only the initial run, prior to the preorder, were hinkey.


----------



## rugdnit

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;968833 said:


> REALLY? And this is how you let me know, no call, no email?
> I have to check a forum to find out about MY order?



REALLY??? You go out of your way to slam him on this board and then you complain about the way he responds to it? There are alot of people that ordered amps... but hey let's make this all about YOU. REALLY???


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

rugdnit said:


> REALLY??? You go out of your way to slam him on this board and then you complain about the way he responds to it? There are alot of people that ordered amps... but hey let's make this all about YOU. REALLY???


 
I am sorry that you missed my point. I will let it go.


----------



## Aaron Clinton

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;968833 said:


> REALLY? And this is how you let me know, no call, no email?
> I have to check a forum to find out about MY order?


*You were upset that you felt we were not answering your contacts, so since you did here, I replied here. *


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

denim said:


> *You were upset that you felt we were not answering your contacts, so since you did here, I replied here. *




And although it does not look like it, I _do_ appreciate it.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Got my Kronos today...
Pics for further examination.


----------



## ChrisB

Is Zed claiming that this amp is Made in the USA? I ask because that surely looks like a Chinese build house circuit board with some, how do I say this lightly, "corrections" made after the fact. 

ETA: I stand corrected because that could also be a Korean board!


----------



## rugdnit

It's been discussed before. " Zed assembled in the USA ".


----------



## ChrisB

Yeah, but what about those post engineering "revisions" or "modifications".  I know that Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ must be a little disappointed that his amplifier comes with a plexi bottom only to show off items soldered onto the circuit board after the fact.

Just judging by his photos I see a resistor on the OP Amp, a diode, and an uninsulated jumper all added AFTER the fact.


----------



## Luke352

As I mentioned in the ShoutBox, these "Engineering Revisions" as you put it are to correct the "POP" that some users have experienced, me being one of them, which is why I know about it because Stephen has explained what I need to do to correct the POP i'm having and the susequent amp going into protection. He was going pay for me me to ship it back for them to carry out the mod but since I live in Australia, he is sending out the parts I need instead since I'm comfortable with a soldering iron.


Admittadely if they had maybe put some heatshrink over the parts/jumper and then soldered them in place they would look much more like the belong there, this is what I intend on doing when I mod mine.


----------



## rugdnit

noted.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Luke352 said:


> As I mentioned in the ShoutBox, these "Engineering Revisions" as you put it are to correct the "POP" that some users have experienced,






I was told quite frankly that the they had issues with these " boards". My amp was actually delayed so they could fix the " issues " it had that they found during the " burn in ". 
I am not sure the pop issue would have only shown up during the burn in, enough to need to delay the shipping of the amp.

I am also not sure it takes 3 resistors, about five 0 ohm jumpers, and at least one diode at various locations all over the amp.....

Even if they ARE to fix the pop, the work seems to leave a lot to be desired from a builder of such esteem.
In more than one location it looks like there are multiple solder pads bridged with the repairs solder. See the first pic of my post for one instance. I actually do not feel comfortable powering the amp up.


----------



## rugdnit

Odd that it should bother you so much... HOW DOES IT SOUND? Will this truly irritate you while driving? If I recall correctly Steve produces amplifiers not Picassos. Why is there soooo much emphasis put on the appearance of an item we use our ears to enjoy? Or did you purchase this item to look at?


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

rugdnit said:


> Odd that it should bother you so much... HOW DOES IT SOUND? Will this truly irritate you while driving? If I recall correctly Steve produces amplifiers not Picassos. Why is there soooo much emphasis put on the appearance of an item we use our ears to enjoy? Or did you purchase this item to look at?




It seems you missed the point, just like so many others do..... With the solder pads that are bridged with solder, I refuse to power it. I am not keeping the amp, regardless of how it would sound.

If you want an amp that looks like it was DIY "repaired" ( I most certainly do not ) this one is for sale, never touched power from me.


----------



## Thunderplains

I agree here.. If you want a work of Art, spend the $$$ and get Genesis, Sinfoni or Thesis..
These are power house amps. If Steve felt it would not stand up to use and abuse going out the door with "fixes" then it would not go. Personally, I don't plan on sitting in my trunk staring at amps, I plan on going deaf.


----------



## Thunderplains

And to add.. I would trust something coming from Steve more than someone either A) I will never be able to talk to or B) Will not give me the time of day cause I am a consumer.
Pick up the phone. Call him. He answers


----------



## rugdnit

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973056 said:


> It seems you missed the point, just like so many others do..... With the solder pads that are bridged with solder, I refuse to power it. I am not keeping the amp, regardless of how it would sound.
> 
> If you want an amp that looks like it was DIY "repaired" ( I most certainly do not ) this one is for sale, never touched power from me.


Perhaps I missed your point, but as Thunderplains stated.... just call Steve. I looked at your pics and looked at mine ( i received my Kronos yesterday as well ) and it generally looks the same from what I can tell. I will judge my amp on how it performs though. I seriously doubt that Steve would send something out that would not perform. If you wanted Art there are amps out there, but at a price. It sure seems like you bought a corvette all the while lusting for an R8.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Sorry, I don't have that much " faith " in somebody I do not know, and has " Ripoff report " claims... IF I wanted ART the amp could have been left alone, it's plenty pretty without seagull sized cold solder bloops.


My nuthugging for Steve must not be that strong.


----------



## rugdnit

It has nothing to do with nut hugging. the man has earned his reputation. It has to do more with you not not buying what you really wanted in the first place. Just so we are clear here.... how many amps have you built? You bought a corvette.... save your pennies next time and buy what you really want. You refuse to call Steve and that says more about you than him. Stop whining.


----------



## Thunderplains

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973087 said:


> Sorry, I don't have that much " faith " in somebody I do not know, and has " Ripoff report " claims... IF I wanted ART the amp could have been left alone, it's plenty pretty without seagull sized cold solder bloops.
> 
> 
> My nuthugging for Steve must not be that strong.


Where are the rip off reports?

And as for "nuthugging", that is way off.. There are people who build amps for the consumer and then there are people who design amps for the industry. Simple logic would dictate the latter. I bet if you called, this would no longer be a post going out of control.


----------



## ryan s

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973087 said:


> Sorry, I don't have that much " faith " in somebody I do not know, and has " Ripoff report " claims... IF I wanted ART the amp could have been left alone, it's plenty pretty without seagull sized cold solder bloops.
> 
> 
> My nuthugging for Steve must not be that strong.


People come to the internet to complain...don't you know that? And did you read the Ripoff Reports? I mean the responses? For every one person that complains, imagine how many happy customers there are.

It's not about nuthugging (and at this point I'm really wondering why you ordered the amp in the first place...you have many other options...) but rather that you can CALL HIM. How many other amp companies can you CALL and speak to the owner? A handful.

Edit: If you can't have faith in talking one-to-one with the person who designed the amps...lol I can't keep a straight face :laugh: You know where I'm going with that rhetorical question


----------



## Thunderplains

ryan s said:


> How many other amp companies can you CALL and speak to the owner? A handful.


Bingo.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

[/nuthugging]

I called. I will NOT pay to ship it back.

It is for sale.


----------



## ryan s

Thunderplains said:


> Bingo.


And how many other people receive a nickname like "The Man" other than douchebags like "The Situation" that give it to themselves? :laugh:



Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973103 said:


> [/nuthugging]
> 
> I called. I will NOT pay to ship it back.
> 
> It is for sale.


Put a thread up here. It'll be sold within a day


----------



## Thunderplains

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973103 said:


> [/nuthugging]
> 
> I called. I will NOT pay to ship it back.
> 
> It is for sale.


So you would rather pay to ship it to someone else.. Make sense.


----------



## ryan s

Thunderplains said:


> So you would rather pay to ship it to someone else.. Make sense.


It ain't our money at least. He could pull a similar thing to your avatar with the amp if he wanted :laugh:


----------



## rugdnit

Thunderplains said:


> Where are the rip off reports?
> 
> And as for "nuthugging", that is way off.. There are people who build amps for the consumer and then there are people who design amps for the industry. Simple logic would dictate the latter. I bet if you called, this would no longer be a post going out of control.


If you google Steve Mantz there is a thread about it. Some kid got all pissed because, Steve wouldn't grab his ankles. The kid was being unreasonable and Steve was not having any of it. 176 posts in 3 months says the people skills are lacking, so I would not hold my breathe on him picking up the phone to talk to Steve.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

I can take a pic of my iPhone with record of the call if you like.........


----------



## Thunderplains

Maybe he'll sell the broken Kronos at a discount.. I'll pick it up to power my other Millle Sub... Ya know, being the piece of sh!t it is and all..


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/76400-nib-zed-kronos.html


[/my involvement]


----------



## matdotcom2000

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973103 said:


> [/nuthugging]
> 
> I called. I will NOT pay to ship it back.
> 
> It is for sale.


How much you want for it?


----------



## Thunderplains

matdotcom2000 said:


> How much you want for it?


I think he wants $420.. Steal for what you are getting.


----------



## ChrisB

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;973087 said:


> My nuthugging for Steve must not be that strong.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

LOL!


----------



## BTA

I agree with you...for $600 you shouldn't have to deal with issues like turn on pop, noise, and going into protection.

I love the one guy's excuse that "if he didnt think it could handle abuse as a revision then it wouldnt go out the door"...well then why did mine go out the door with so many blatant issues?

I'm glad I sent mine back. I'll be damned if I'm going to accept a hack-job repair on what is supposed to be a brand new amp either.

You guys can go on and on about how great it is that you can call him all you want, but I'd rather have a product I paid good money for work than be able to call him and listen to him tell me I'm just a dipshit cause I "listen for noise"...funny any other amp I put in has no problems.

nut hugging indeed.


----------



## ryan s

What's the #1 rule in electronics? 

Don't buy the first version if you want a perfect product 

Earlier, I thought about it in an ironic sense: How many of us have 30+ years of amp engineering experience...?

Call me a nuthugger or fanboy...doesn't matter, cause I don't care. Make a better one yourself or buy a different product. If you don't like it, take advantage of a free market economy.


----------



## BTA

Hense why I sent it back and am using something else.

Not sure what your comment is trying to prove, besides that you guys don't want to hear anything negative.

If you didn't care so much, you could always just go along enjoying your amp and not comment on what others think of it.


----------



## rugdnit

BTA said:


> Hense why I sent it back and am using something else.
> 
> *Not sure what your comment is trying to prove, besides that you guys don't want to hear anything negative*.
> 
> If you didn't care so much, you could always just go along enjoying your amp and not comment on what others think of it.



Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that a few whiners cry louder than the majority ( who happen to be quite satisfied with their purchase). As if their voice should matter more. I could tell from his first post in this thread where this was all headed. To me it sounded pretty obvious that he had not done his homework. Especially considering that he expected his product so fast " 18 days and still nothing ". Nobody wants to hear you carry on bashing someone. I for one appreciate the few guys like Steve that are left in the business. Let's see how much you b!tch when those guys are gone. If you are not happy-- go somewhere else.... and be happy.


----------



## ryan s

rugdnit said:


> Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that a few whiners cry louder than the majority ( who happen to be quite satisfied with their purchase). As if their voice should matter more. I could tell from his first post in this thread where this was all headed. To me it sounded pretty obvious that he had not done his homework. Especially considering that he expected his product so fast " 18 days and still nothing ". Nobody wants to hear you carry on bashing someone. I for one appreciate the few guys like Steve that are left in the business. Let's see how much you b!tch when those guys are gone. If you are not happy-- go somewhere else.... and be happy.


Exactly what I was getting at...thank you sir


----------



## benny

Holy ****ing ****. Issues like this with 30+ years of designing and building amplifiers?? These issues shouldn't exist if ZED is everything the nuthuggers say. 

One more thing, where would we be if it wasn't for people standing up and yelling when they get ****ed over?


----------



## ryan s

benny said:


> Holy ****ing ****. Issues like this with 30+ years of designing and building amplifiers?? These issues shouldn't exist if ZED is everything the nuthuggers say.
> 
> One more thing, where would we be if it wasn't for people standing up and yelling when they get ****ed over?


You're aware that Steve didn't hear the turn-on pop, and wasn't aware until some people started telling him...? Nobody's perfect...Windows Vista users know all about that. One thing I'm sure of is he knows more than any of us...all of us combined, even?

Oh yeah...people got raped because they have to pay $20 to return it to Zed for a refund  Don't buy a first run of electronics if you don't want issues...I thought everyone knew that...


----------



## TrickyRicky

Just like those Toyota's that got recalled.


----------



## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Just like those Toyota's that got recalled.


Yeah, but I thought most of those were the ones built in the good old US of A? I could be wrong, but I was told that the Toyota products built in Japan didn't have these issues.

I agree with Ryan S though because I try to avoid the first generation of ANYTHING due to being burned in the past. Now, I choose to let someone else be the product beta tester!


----------



## TrickyRicky

ChrisB said:


> Yeah, but I thought most of those were the ones built in the good old US of A? I could be wrong, but I was told that the Toyota products built in Japan didn't have these issues.
> 
> I agree with Ryan S though because I try to avoid the first generation of ANYTHING due to being burned in the past. Now, I choose to let someone else be the product beta tester!


Dang, if they were built in the USA, then maybe just maybe.... Dont know. I thought all car manufactures were now overseas?


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Do not forget about the " restocking fee ", even on defective items...... ( screwed )

Oh, and me bashing, the pics did that for me. Even Audiobahn insulates their jumpers....... ( But they are supposed to be there )

Amazing nuthuggery to expect me to deal with a ****ty built amp, or bow down to somebody who actually packaged and let this **** go out the door. ( Gets a 2 out of 10 for quality control )


If it is OK, where are all you "NH's" in the classified thread? It is for sale, somebody step up and buy this perfectly fine, hand modified ( by Steve Himself ) Kronos!


----------



## craustin

I usually buy an amp based on sound quality. Pretty sad that this one did not even get powered up, yet the owner pretty much just complained about it. Goes to show you there is always at least someone out there you just can't please. Move on, don't keep bashing, makes you look childish and immature..


----------



## benny

A brand new amp from a reputable company SHOULD NOT look like I just repaired it.


----------



## TrickyRicky

benny said:


> A brand new amp from a reputable company SHOULD NOT look like I just repaired it.


To make things worse, it has a plexi-glass cover on the top. So everyone can see the repair.

If I was Mantz, I would of bend the jumper wire that goes from resistor to resistor with "ZED" on it, that would make it look atleast nice. And try to keep all the extra resistors clean add, or even added to the bottom of the board. 

I think this is why the guy is pissed off so much, because he wanted to display it and now you can see this repairs (which I do agree, look like a DIY project). When I get my modified amps, I check them, and I always see CLEAN: solder spots, added resistors, op amps, or repairs. This is from TIPS (Ray). And am always happy with his work, believe it or not, I think he could of done a better job. Not saying Stephen can't solder, I bet he had to do this to a bunch of kronos or leviathans before sending them out.


----------



## turbo5upra

I no longer have my levithan... about all the 2 cents I care to add.


----------



## fastlane

There are certainly a lot of valid points here; on both sides of the fence. I'm replying as I am someone who was looking to replace my Arc SE's that I sold with a Kronos and Leviathan. 

I agree that the first run of anything is prone to issues; no matter how well it is tested. Anyone who has been in the electronics world for more than 5 minutes has probably run into issues with a newly released item; whether it be an amp, cd player, or toaster. 

I can certainly appreciate the concern for the "modifications" made to the amp however. If purchasing a mass marketed product, I would expect to see less than perfect solder joints, connections, etc. But this is not a mass produced item. It is made to order, and hand built by "The Man". While humans certainly have the ability to error, we also have the ability of discernment. A machine throws a solder joint down and moves on, with no way to decipher whether it is good, bad, or indifferent. Hence where qc comes in. As a human being, if I lay down a solder joint that looks like crap, I have the ability to fix it right there. 
It should have been done, especially due to the fact of these amps having a plexi cover. I certainly don't stare at my amp driving down the road, that being said, it obviously was designed to show off the internals. Ferrari has clear covers on their engine compartments on select cars. They are obviously proud and want to display what they are capable of producing. I doubt they would spray paint the head covers with Krylon if they plan on displaying it for all to see. Should I tell the Ferrari owners, who just purchased a hand built car, "You don't stare at the engine compartment when driving do you"? It's about the principle. 

I see a lot of reference to Corvette's in here. Are you aware the Z06 and Zr1 are hand built? After they are put together, the person who assembled it puts his/her name on it. It's a sense of pride, and if you ever get a chance to tour the Bowling Green Kentucky Corvette plant you'll see what I mean. Same thing for Lingenfelter. I just recently witnessed a motor that was just assembled within the last day get torn completely back apart as it was a couple % off on one of the cylinders during it's initial dyno run. The gentleman had flown in that morning to pick it up, and was comped a hotel for the next couple days while they rebuilt the motor. That's CS and a pride of building something yourself. 

I too would probably would be a little upset if I got a brand new amp in that had an issue, and I had to pay to return it for repair. I'm sure no one is getting rich off these amps; they seem to be very reasonably priced for what they do. But I also don't feel the seller footing the return shipping bill is too much to ask either. 

I know there are people who are huge followers of the Zed product, and as they very well should be. It didn't received the following it has had over the years by being a sub par product. By I also feel some should start seeing the Forrest for the tree's, and admit when there are issues that shouldn't be passed off as merely acceptable. 

JMTC, and I'm sure I'll get some change back.


----------



## rugdnit

FASTLANE-- I would agree with those points. As an early adopter I am okay with some of these flaws as I bought these to listen to ( I am certainly happy with their performance this regard ). They were certainly built to be seen as well and I can appreciate wanting them to be prefect. I am sure there were some issues that were beyond Steve's control in sourcing and production. Generally there is a trade off for being an early adopter-- once every little detail is perfect I do not fully expect the price to stay where it is at. As it stands if appearance is equally important as sound then perhaps one should stay on the sidelines for now.


----------



## benny

So, Zed claims that these amps are assembled in the USA, but Mantz isn't in control of sourcing and production? That makes no sense to me, unless the "made in the USA" thing is a lie.


----------



## rugdnit

benny said:


> So, Zed claims that these amps are assembled in the USA, but Mantz isn't in control of sourcing and production? That makes no sense to me, unless the "made in the USA" thing is a lie.


Jezuz... I don't know the exact details, but I am willing to bet in a perfect world Steve would have not had this happen. As in life many things happen that are beyond our control. 

RELAX
STOP
TROLLING

Have a wobbly pop and enjoy the game 2-0 WOOOOO!


----------



## benny

In a perfect world, Steve wouldn't have released these amps until they were RIGHT.

GO TEAM CANUCKISTAN!!


----------



## turbo5upra

It simply is not a perfect world.... but its how one handles the limited F#$ that are out of one's control that counts.



benny said:


> In a perfect world, Steve wouldn't have released these amps until they were RIGHT.
> 
> GO TEAM CANUCKISTAN!!


----------



## TrickyRicky

In a perfect world, we would all have just one amp that pushes all drivers from subs to tweeters *with no additional components.* and sound good doing it too. But we all know thats not going to happen any time soon.


----------



## Luke352

fastlane said:


> I too would probably would be a little upset if I got a brand new amp in that had an issue, and I had to pay to return it for repair. I'm sure no one is getting rich off these amps; they seem to be very reasonably priced for what they do. But I also don't feel the seller footing the return shipping bill is too much to ask either.
> 
> .



You don't have to pay the return shipping if you are just sending it back to have the mods/repairs carried out, ZED are more then happy to pay for that.

But you do have to pay the shipping if all you want to do is return the item for a refund and then you have to pay a $20 restocking fee or something. You don't purchase an item take it home decide you don't want it because your not happy and then ring the shop and say you can come pick it up from my house because I'm not going to drive back to the shop.


I'll admite the mods/repairs could have been carried out better in a fashion that made them very unobvious. I guess this is just a case of pressure, the repairs are perfectly safe just not as pretty as they could have beeen done I guess. Sometimes being patient will get you a better product then jumping up and down ranting and we have a perfect example of that here. 

It's like people who have a hissy at the airport because the Aircraft needs repairs, well hey you can jump on the plane needing repairs but hey you may not make it or you can be patient and then fly safely.


----------



## benny

Luke352 said:


> It's like people who have a hissy at the airport because the Aircraft needs repairs, well hey you can jump on the plane needing repairs but hey you may not make it or you can be patient and then fly safely.


No, this is more like Boeing saying, "hey, we have this great new plane!! Wanna buy one? OK, we'll take your order, but you have to wait on delivery while we stitch the wings on with mechanics wire."


----------



## turbo5upra

at a shop you can listen before you buy.....



Luke352 said:


> You don't have to pay the return shipping if you are just sending it back to have the mods/repairs carried out, ZED are more then happy to pay for that.
> 
> But you do have to pay the shipping if all you want to do is return the item for a refund and then you have to pay a $20 restocking fee or something. You don't purchase an item take it home decide you don't want it because your not happy and then ring the shop and say you can come pick it up from my house because I'm not going to drive back to the shop.
> 
> 
> I'll admite the mods/repairs could have been carried out better in a fashion that made them very unobvious. I guess this is just a case of pressure, the repairs are perfectly safe just not as pretty as they could have beeen done I guess. Sometimes being patient will get you a better product then jumping up and down ranting and we have a perfect example of that hear.
> 
> It's like people who have a hissy at the airport because the Aircraft needs repairs, well hey you can jump on the plane needing repairs but hey you may not make it or you can be patient and then fly safely.


----------



## DS-21

rugdnit said:


> Jezuz... I don't know the exact details,


But a reasonable person can infer them:

1) SM designs board. (I'm going to assume it's his own design, simply because he seems up to doing that sort of thing and to date at least there are no other amps advertised as being in the same power range with the same crossover functionality, etc.)
2) SM either contracts with an Asian buildhouse he's used before, or sends out bids, or some other process.
3) Asian buildhouse builds board. Probably a different Asian buildhouse extrudes heatsinks and cuts out plexiglas.
4) Asian buildhouse(s) ship board to SM.
5) SM fixes at least one design flaw in his board design manually, as seen in this thread. That would almost certainly make the things qualify as "made in the USA."
6) SM stuffs boards into heatsinks and packages the amps for resale, which is probably enough work to qualify as "made in the USA."
7) Completed amps get shipped to customers.

I'm not condemning that process, mind. I understand something about international political economy, so I see global trade as a very positive thing. I take a very dim view on protectionists.

As for this amp, I thought about the group buy but based on other people's prior experiences with hackjob repairs from Mantz, I decided to wait out the first run and maybe snag one later. Now for reasons unrelated to Zed I won't be, but that doesn't mean that after they're fixed the Zed amps aren't probably just fine.


----------



## ryan s

benny said:


> No, this is more like Boeing saying, "hey, we have this great new plane!! Wanna buy one? OK, we'll take your order, but you have to wait on delivery while we stitch the wings on with mechanics wire."


I lol'd.

Watch more History Channel, learn more aviation history. Or there's always Google.

By "I lol'd," I mean the irony was enough to elicit an audible reaction from me outside of the hockey game.


----------



## Luke352

benny said:


> No, this is more like Boeing saying, "hey, we have this great new plane!! Wanna buy one? OK, we'll take your order, but you have to wait on delivery while we stitch the wings on with mechanics wire."


I worked on Boeing's for several years, and prior to that F-111's and trust me Aircraft aren't built as exactly as you would think. They also come out of the factory with plenty of extra fixes and work that needs to be carried out at the next major service.


----------



## Luke352

turbo5upra said:


> at a shop you can listen before you buy.....


Yeah but he didn't even listen did he? He never gave it a chance, my guess is if he had it wouldn't be for sale right now.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Luke352 said:


> my guess is if he had it wouldn't be for sale right now.


 

You're guess would be wrong. It is for sale/gone no matter what.........
Somebody told me to sack up and stop whining, so I did.


Mc301M > Kronos


----------



## turbo5upra

you would take the scratch and dent car for the same price as the mint one?



Luke352 said:


> Yeah but he didn't even listen did he? He never gave it a chance, my guess is if he had it wouldn't be for sale right now.


----------



## Luke352

turbo5upra said:


> you would take the scratch and dent car for the same price as the mint one?



This is the mint version, it's not an issue with all of them it's only when used with some HU's apparently evident by the fact that some people have no issue's and some of us do and the amps are the same so it must be the way they interact with some systems, so the mod doesn't need to be in place for everyone but they are obviously doing it too all the units that leave the factory now, just to prevent having to ship the units back to the factory to carry out the mod for those people that may require it.


What gets me is there is alot of us with these amps who are absolutely loving them, this is also my first ZED product and I have to say apart from the POP (which will be rectified shortly) it is far superior to anything I've used previously some of which was worth 2x the price for half the power, I also do some judging so I've listened to several cars using, JL's, TRU, AudioSystem, Boston, Alpine, Soundstream, Arc and so on. But I'm also seeing 2 or 3 very vocal whingers or people who didn't like them compared too many very happy people and some of those in the negative camp haven't even tried one let alone seen one in the flesh.


Put it like this, do you seriously think there would be only the 2-3 maybe 4 at most negative comments from ACTUAL users about the product if out of the hundreds of amps that they have probably sold from this latest design were all duds as some of you seem to think. So there is obviously lots of very satisfied customers out there with no issues, since in 99% of cases it's only the unhappy who come out and say anything about a product.


----------



## quality_sound

benny said:


> A brand new amp from a reputable company SHOULD NOT look like I just repaired it.


I sincerely hope you never own an amp that was made in the 90s or even the early 2000s.


----------



## turbo5upra

Some of the people that have had issues just walked away without saying much aswell..... 

my take. 
does it put out great power.... yes
Does it sound as good as other amps i've used... yes
does it have issues.... yes
do any of the other amps in my collection have issues... yeap
should I spend 630 bucks on an amp, ship it back.... for another 30 bucks to have some of the issues resolved but some that can't be.... nope and thats why I don't own one.

Steve seems to be a great guy with alot on his plate. Some by choice, Some because of design issues. He's done work on older amps of mine... the mc300 i'm currently running, works flawless. It was clean work. 

Bottom line is for 600 bucks if it works for you in your car it's a steal. If it doesn't then its a waste of about 100 bucks, I've spent more on less.

That repair on the above amp is just not acceptable though. If your going to fix a amp of this class do it so it looks correct.




Luke352 said:


> This is the mint version, it's not an issue with all of them it's only when used with some HU's apparently evident by the fact that some people have no issue's and some of us do and the amps are the same so it must be the way they interact with some systems, so the mod doesn't need to be in place for everyone but they are obviously doing it too all the units that leave the factory now, just to prevent having to ship the units back to the factory to carry out the mod for those people that may require it.
> 
> 
> What gets me is there is alot of us with these amps who are absolutely loving them, this is also my first ZED product and I have to say apart from the POP (which will be rectified shortly) it is far superior to anything I've used previously some of which was worth 2x the price for half the power, I also do some judging so I've listened to several cars using, JL's, TRU, AudioSystem, Boston, Alpine, Soundstream, Arc and so on. But I'm also seeing 2 or 3 very vocal whingers or people who didn't like them compared too many very happy people and some of those in the negative camp haven't even tried one let alone seen one in the flesh.
> 
> 
> Put it like this, do you seriously think there would be only the 2-3 maybe 4 at most negative comments from ACTUAL users about the product if out of the hundreds of amps that they have probably sold from this latest design were all duds as some of you seem to think. So there is obviously lots of very satisfied customers out there with no issues, since in 99% of cases it's only the unhappy who come out and say anything about a product.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Pretty much the same thing I said. He (Mantz) should of bend the jumper wire that went from resistor to resistor with letters like, uhhh lets say "ZED". And/or do all the repair work underneath the board if possible. That way you wouldnt see it from the top plexiglass cover. I will try to photoshop so everyone can see the difference if the wire was bended with letters. LOL. Give me a few minutes.


----------



## neomsport

Luke352 said:


> This is the mint version, it's not an issue with all of them it's only when used with some HU's apparently evident by the fact that some people have no issue's and some of us do and the amps are the same so it must be the way they interact with some systems, so the mod doesn't need to be in place for everyone but they are obviously doing it too all the units that leave the factory now, just to prevent having to ship the units back to the factory to carry out the mod for those people that may require it.
> 
> 
> What gets me is there is alot of us with these amps who are absolutely loving them, this is also my first ZED product and I have to say apart from the POP (which will be rectified shortly) it is far superior to anything I've used previously some of which was worth 2x the price for half the power, I also do some judging so I've listened to several cars using, JL's, TRU, AudioSystem, Boston, Alpine, Soundstream, Arc and so on. But I'm also seeing 2 or 3 very vocal whingers or people who didn't like them compared too many very happy people and some of those in the negative camp haven't even tried one let alone seen one in the flesh.
> 
> 
> Put it like this, do you seriously think there would be only the 2-3 maybe 4 at most negative comments from ACTUAL users about the product if out of the hundreds of amps that they have probably sold from this latest design were all duds as some of you seem to think. So there is obviously lots of very satisfied customers out there with no issues, since in 99% of cases it's only the unhappy who come out and say anything about a product.


Concur on all above and conclusions made. I know I have been totally wowed with my Leviathan, and am considering buying another one for my main system.

It is unfortunate that the mods done were not up to expectations, but I know from experience that the product will work fine when it has been replaced 
(concur with comment on 'old school' amps 'mods'). 

But some people are more fussy then others, and I can totally appreciate that, but at the end of the day, does the thing (amp or hammer or whatever)
work as it is supposed to? If so, then fine. If you have remaining issues, for whatever reason, then get something else and move on. 
Life is too short to fuss over anything that can only be further resolved by one's actions (as in sell and get a new solution).

As the saying goes; _the best way to get over a girl is to get under/on a new one..._

Cheers!

Rick


----------



## turbo5upra

neomsport said:


> Concur on all above and conclusions made. I know I have been totally wowed with my Leviathan, and am considering buying another one for my main system.
> 
> It is unfortunate that the mods done were not up to expectations, but I know from experience that the product will work fine when it has been replaced
> (concur with comment on 'old school' amps 'mods').
> 
> But some people are more fussy then others, and I can totally appreciate that, but at the end of the day, does the thing (amp or hammer or whatever)
> work as it is supposed to? If so, then fine. If you have remaining issues, for whatever reason, then get something else and move on.
> Life is too short to fuss over anything that can only be further resolved by one's actions (as in sell and get a new solution).
> 
> As the saying goes; _the best way to get over a girl is to get under/on a new one..._
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Rick


I think he was giving a review... a negative one, but none the less a review. He wasn't happy, Its in the classifieds. I wasn't happy with mine.... it's gone.


looks Like we're both under/ on top/ in new women..... I ran back to the old one.....


----------



## benny

quality_sound said:


> I sincerely hope you never own an amp that was made in the 90s or even the early 2000s.


ROFL. OK, the PG ZX600.2Ti I just pulled out of my car has work done to it by me, still looks better. The old Kicker ix254 I fixed a couple years ago (my first!) looks better. My HCCA225G4 looks better than that inside, as did the USAmps 200x, 600 and 2000x I used to run. My old Fosgate Power 1001bd looked better than that. OH YEAH. I have a pair of these old Alpine 3520s in the garage, NIB, and I think they look better too:


----------



## ChrisB

Expanding on the 90s comment, this Ell Pee 5002 was manufactured in 1991:









Why I ever liked those amplifiers, I'll never know. I guess I fell for the hype, lies, nostalgia, and BS. I also found that either my memory faded with time or they weren't that great to begin with.

Compared to the above, even with Zed's revisions, his amplifiers look like a work of art compared to the "monster" amp from the late 80s/early 90s.


----------



## lil goat

I have a Leviathan, part of a group buy on a different forum, (car forum actually) It was built to order, got a nice price and it is perfect. It runs my entire system and I use the active crossovers in it. I have no complaints except when I have to get out of the car and stop listening to it. I have extremely limited space in my car, and this is a perfect solution, mounted vertically behind the drivers seat on the back wall, single sub is behind passenger seat on the other side. I am simply ecstatic with the entire system, simplest system I have ever built and sounds the best.


----------



## STEPHENM

This reply is reasonably long so bear with me. Thanks to the guys who support me and my company and thanks to the guys who get great pleasure in trashing someone. Simple, you are not happy with the product, call me and I will resolve your problem or simply return it for a full refund. 

It seems that some guys really get their kicks in bringing people down. Remember one thing and those of you know who you are, "what goes around comes around".

The gentleman who goes by the name of "ThittgFish" his name is Dave and his email address is * Ninja Edit *.

Well he called me complaining about Sound Solutions and how bad they are bla bla bla. I have dealt with SSA for over 5 years and have found them to be polite, helpful and honest guys.

Dave you seem to complain about everyone and everything. You called me on the phone complaining about SSA and I was polite and helpful with you and then you go to the forum and trash me. I suppose it would have been a lot of trouble to pick up the phone and call me with your issues regarding the Kronos. Unfortunately the two technicians I had did some bad things on the amps and this has caused me heartache. This Kronos and others were badly modified, and this is why these guys were fired. Unfortunately I learned the hard way. All Kronos amps now coming off the line have ZERO visible modifications. 

Dave if you had called me I would have paid for the return of the amplifier to Zed, reworked the amplifier so it looks professional and shipped the amplifier within the day. No you choose to trash me.

Dave my man remember the saying!

My apologies to those who have received amps with these ugly mods. On my dime you are welcome to return the amps with the same offer as I have outlined above. Each amplifier returned will include a refund cheque for the freight which you would pay.

Now my answers to several posts:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ChrisB________________________________________
Is Zed claiming that this amp is Made in the USA? I ask because that surely looks like a Chinese build house circuit board with some, how do I say this lightly, "corrections" made after the fact. 

ETA: I stand corrected because that could also be a Korean board! 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris please explain the difference between a Chinese, a Korean, a USA and a Norwegian made PCB? I would dearly love to know what facts have led you to this fantastic conclusion.

What is a "Chinese build house" board? I am dying to know the answer to this one!

A little info for you. FR4 PCB material is now entirely sourced form either China, Taiwan or Korea. The cost to make this in the USA is prohibitive. 

All the surface mount resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, ICs are sourced in Asia. Why? Nobody in the USA makes these parts for commercial applications.

The power MOSFETs we use are from International Rectifier and Fairchild. None of them are fabricated in the USA even though these are USA companies.

All the inductors (coils) and transformers use cores from Mag-Inc (Pennsylvania) and Micrometals (Costa Mesa CA).

Potentiometers are from Tocos, a Japanese company.

RCA sockets are sourced in China.

Power and speaker connectors are sourced in either China or Korea.

So with this said, ALL amplifier manufacturers source the vast majority of their parts from Asia. Why? Price Price Price. I have ZERO problems with these parts, they are as good as any available.

Go ahead Dave and latch onto the Sloan rip off report. This was almost 5 years ago and the courts ruled in my favour as did Amex. As I told that GENIUS we have a special department at Zed that when any amplifier is sent to us for repair (Be it one of ours or any other) we have tools and machines that we use to trash the amplifiers, gouge the heat sinks, smash panels and printed circuit boards and my favourite, we remove many components from the boards so the amplifier can never work. This is what this rocket scientist claims we did to his amplifiers. 

They were in mint condition when received, mint when they were sent back and mint when we re sold them as B stock. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rugdnit, ryan s and others, thanks for your support, it is much appreciated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BTA you are just rude, and I choose not to reply to your post(s).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
benny

Holy ****ing ****. Issues like this with 30+ years of designing and building amplifiers?? These issues shouldn't exist if ZED is everything the nuthuggers say. 

One more thing, where would we be if it wasn't for people standing up and yelling when they get ****ed over? 

Well "benny" your mother should have put some soap in YOUR mouth a few years back.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

turbo5upra

Brian thanks for the "kind" words. mmm I helped you out, did lots on the house, your Leviathan worked fine you claimed it interfered with your radio.

If you have nothing nice to say rather don't say anything.

I spent many hours on the phone with you....well thanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
benny
So, Zed claims that these amps are assembled in the USA, but Mantz isn't in control of sourcing and production? That makes no sense to me, unless the "made in the USA" thing is a lie. 

So "benny" let me in on your secret please. How do you KNOW what I am in control of and what I am not? I am very interested to know where you get your facts.

For your edification I have a financial interest in a company in Korea which does lots of work with me and source parts which I require and specify.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Luke 352

There is no re stocking fee for a product returned under our 30 day return policy. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS WILL BE MY ONE AND ONLY REPLY TO THIS POST. 

If anyone has an issue, call or email me and it will be dealt with in a professional manner. I stand by my products and again anyone who needs a product updated or whatever, all they need to do is contact me.

I am more than happy to spend time on the phone helping people on a one on one basis. 

For those of you who wish to continue saying bad things, GO AHEAD AND KNOCK YOURSELVES OUT..............BE MY GUEST.


Steve Mantz
Zed Audio Corporation
Zed Audio Corporation)


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Yes Steve, I am the bad guy for posting pics of what I received and commenting on those who love you unconditionally. ( I was one for 20 years )

I am still looking for where I "bashed" you, it seems I only commented on my personal experience. I never called names etc... FYI, this amp was a burst bubble for me, I considered you to be the best of the best, so if you think I just like to bash, think twice. Or just look for other posts or comments from me that are negative to others. There are NONE. I thought I was quite fair with my posts, and only posted pics of what I received. If that is bashing, do not let that type of work leave the shop as those who buy your product, hold you to a higher standard.. I am sorry if the truth hurts, the truths you spoke about me mean nothing, as they are nothing I already do not know. I never said I was a nice guy, I only expect somebody that I have respected and have been loyal to for decades to take my hard earned money and do a good job. That unfortunately has not happened. I am sorry that it is expected of me to take a deep breath and send something back that I needed weeks ago, that should have been right, out of the box..........

In regards to picking up the phone, I did. Three times with no response. Along with three unanswered attempts to get an RMA since I got the amp. How can I return something when an RMA request is not answered?
On the threat of a ban, I will not comment on vendors here.

Thank you for being professional and posting my email publicly, any spam I get will be gleefully forwarded. I ask nicely for you to remove it.

And the ripoff report, I have no idea about the details, nor is it important. It was just something that came up from Google that brought light to the situation. 

Thank you again for posting. I will contact you, and we will deal with this like gentlemen. I would like nothing more than to have my faith in you restored.

By the way, is the 30 day return from when I ordered it, or when I got it? I've only had it a few days, and may not have a 30 day return warranty.......


I hope my post was acceptable, I am obviously just a Neanderthal.

Oh, and the name is Thingfish.


----------



## ChrisB

STEPHENM said:


> please explain the difference between a Chinese, a Korean, a USA and a Norwegian made PCB? I would dearly love to know what facts have led you to this fantastic conclusion.
> 
> What is a "Chinese build house" board? I am dying to know the answer to this one!


From what I was told by someone in the industry, the Korean build houses have been making amplifiers longer than some of the Chinese build houses that just came online and generally don't have as many production problems. Granted, as long as Quality Control standards are adhered to, it probably makes no difference where the product is manufactured these days. 

I was just asking the question because I remember someone saying YOUR new amplifiers were "Made in the USA", and it is obvious that they are not. Granted, YOU didn't say this, it was secondhand information from someone who obviously didn't know any better!

On the other hand, I can't say I fault you for going with an Asian build house. In this crappy economy, it would be cost prohibitive to try to manufacture electronics in the USA AND remain competitive price wise. I am certain that your goal is to make money, pay bills, and put food on the table like the rest of us.

Furthermore, I have given up on my sense of "Made in the USA" pride after being burned by a certain repair tech (not you) on these "great amplifiers" that are no longer produced due to the company folding. I won't mention names or brands, but I am certain you can guess it relatively easily.



STEPHENM said:


> A little info for you. FR4 PCB material is now entirely sourced form either China, Taiwan or Korea. The cost to make this in the USA is prohibitive.
> 
> All the surface mount resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, ICs are sourced in Asia. Why? Nobody in the USA makes these parts for commercial applications.
> 
> The power MOSFETs we use are from International Rectifier and Fairchild. None of them are fabricated in the USA even though these are USA companies.
> 
> All the inductors (coils) and transformers use cores from Mag-Inc (Pennsylvania) and Micrometals (Costa Mesa CA).
> 
> Potentiometers are from Tocos, a Japanese company.
> 
> RCA sockets are sourced in China.
> 
> Power and speaker connectors are sourced in either China or Korea.
> 
> So with this said, ALL amplifier manufacturers source the vast majority of their parts from Asia. Why? Price Price Price. I have ZERO problems with these parts, they are as good as any available.


Thanks for the information!


----------



## BigMoneyTT

Wow. Awesome.
I really want a Leviathan now. Like for reals though.


----------



## quality_sound

benny said:


> ROFL. OK, the PG ZX600.2Ti I just pulled out of my car has work done to it by me, still looks better. The old Kicker ix254 I fixed a couple years ago (my first!) looks better. My HCCA225G4 looks better than that inside, as did the USAmps 200x, 600 and 2000x I used to run. My old Fosgate Power 1001bd looked better than that. OH YEAH. I have a pair of these old Alpine 3520s in the garage, NIB, and I think they look better too:


And you think that looks better? Look at the soldering ont he output devices. Also, almost every amp you mentioned is newer than the time frame I gave so they're going to look decent. Not good, but decent.


----------



## turbo5upra

STEPHENM said:


> turbo5upra
> 
> Brian thanks for the "kind" words. mmm I helped you out, did lots on the house, your Leviathan worked fine you claimed it interfered with your radio.
> 
> If you have nothing nice to say rather don't say anything.
> 
> I spent many hours on the phone with you....well thanks
> 
> 
> Steve Mantz
> Zed Audio Corporation
> Zed Audio Corporation)


ya know.... I gave a honest and well thought out reply each time I did. I stated that it had issues,. Mine would go into protect mode when driving it into 3 channels (driving decently hard)....not a real big deal since other than trying it out that way I would never run it like that when done. It would do this long before the clip lights came on. 

It also made a high pitched whine that was very and I mean very slight, Annoying but you stated that could be fixed.

Issue number 3 was the one I could not live with..... I had it in the hatch area of my tc and the Fm reception went to hell, Which you stated to me on the phone you had happen to you in your BMW with your home built 12 channel amp on the AM band.

I moved the amp as far away as it would work in my install and it still did it... that was about 3 feet.

I and 2 other members on here had noted the issues.

_________________________________________________________________

Rather than give you a bad review at first since you had been really good to deal with for the most part I decided to walk away in the way that I thought best for both of us.

I did state that you have done great work for me recently, and I thought for the most part I was pretty good about not bashing you. 

I'm going leave it pretty much at that except..

You seem very passionate about your work, you have a great rep before this.
But it seems to me if someone doesn't like your product or its not for them you get offended.

I'm not saying it to be a *******, I'm saying it to hopefully help you out. 
_________________________________________________________________


----------



## turbo5upra

you shouldn't need a RMA # unless you printed off the page and signed it and returned it....


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

The vendor I bought through asks for customers to contact them via phone or email for all returns etc.


----------



## lil goat

As someone who actually worked in an American factory on the assembly line making FAA receivers, I can only wish the stuff we put out looked as good as my Leviathan, I had to pass several tests to be able to solder on FAA equipment I kind of know what things should look like.

Find another vendor that would take the time to address everyone's concerns, and tell me how much luck you have getting the President of JL Audio or Alpine on the phone.


----------



## Thunderplains

I have had my few spots on this post.. But I have to say this..

I am more into Home Audio than Car audio, but started in car audio about
25 years ago and amazingly enough 90% of the amps I owned (mostly were
US amps and I had no clue of Steve's involvement back then) have never
had an issue and worked flawlessly.. Old school rocks.

With that being said, back when the internet was rising and there really
was no place for people to "share opinions", we all spoke to "Customer
service reps" for the companies we dealt with. Today, we can speak our
minds and have them be heard in multiple forums in hopes that we will
either save someone the trouble or have them jump on the band wagon.

I have been on audio forums for way too long and I have to say this.
For a company owner (regardless of who) to spend time even reading, never mind
responding to certain posts and pointing out facts that, personally
I had no idea where ALL the parts came from, is quite a statement.
This is probably the second time I have seen a manufacture do this.
And about the "mods" The truth came out and it seems those employees
are no longer employed. **** happens AT every company. Period.
You correct the mistake and move on. 
Anyways, I have a level of respect for integrity, maybe from my time
in the Marines, and that post was demonstrated integrity and
yes, passion about his company.
I don't think we will see that from very many amp manufactures, probably none.

Call me a nuthugger or what ever the hell you wish. From my standpoint
both Steve and Aaron (SSA) are both stand up guys and have only done
good by me. Steve actually also helped me out with some home audio
questions as well.. I don't think I would have gotten that by talking to
any other amp company "Owner"

Enough said.

O and I am the proud owner of a Kronos and a Leviathan, and probably another
Kronos in the future. If not from its value, more now from his post.


----------



## turbo5upra

"If you have nothing nice to say rather don't say anything."

Steve... please look up the word "review" as they come with the good and the bad....


I said good things about YOU as a person.

I said the amp wasn't for me... I gave it some props... I said those repairs shouldn't be made like that... as I'm guessing you would agree since they no longer work for you... eh?


If i'm not mistaken you did repair the amp after I sent it back for the "whine".

so you yourself had noted at least 2 of the issues I had with mine. Please don't try and turn this around on us as bitching. We are simply stating the facts.

It's not about the mistakes one makes.... its about the way they correct them and the things they walk away with for the future..... live n learn....


----------



## BTA

I'm sorry you don't want to respond to me.

I guess that's the easy way of dealing with a customer you basically screwed. Keep up the good work.

You shipped out garbage that didn't work, then told people they're just morons and try to listen for noise, then send them a document that tells them how to fix their issues by clipping resistors? Oh and it turns out that isn't all that is needed anyway? Sorry but I'm not going to go clipping resistors on a brand new $600 amp from someone who is supposedly this great engineer.

Top it off with you forcing me to pay return shipping to return it, followed by making me wait a week for my refund, and then when you do give me the refund, you send it as a normal Paypal payment, so I get hit with the paypal fee as well. All said a good $85 wasted to deal with a shoddy product and crap service.

You talk a good game but I think you're just a hack who has these people snowed by nostalgia.

When it worked at all, the amp sounded like **** anyway, which is why I didn't want to deal with shipping it back and forth with you to obviously get a hack job repair like other's have gotten.

The rest of these people wont say anything until they've been able to sell theirs. Which is par for the course here.


----------



## lil goat

BTA said:


> I'm sorry you don't want to respond to me.
> 
> I guess that's the easy way of dealing with a customer you basically screwed. Keep up the good work.
> 
> You shipped out garbage that didn't work, then told people they're just morons and try to listen for noise, then send them a document that tells them how to fix their issues by clipping resistors? Oh and it turns out that isn't all that is needed anyway? Sorry but I'm not going to go clipping resistors on a brand new $600 amp from someone who is supposedly this great engineer.
> 
> Top it off with you forcing me to pay return shipping to return it, followed by making me wait a week for my refund, and then when you do give me the refund, you send it as a normal Paypal payment, so I get hit with the paypal fee as well. All said a good $85 wasted to deal with a shoddy product and crap service.
> 
> You talk a good game but I think you're just a hack who has these people snowed by nostalgia.
> 
> When it worked at all, the amp sounded like **** anyway, which is why I didn't want to deal with shipping it back and forth with you to obviously get a hack job repair like other's have gotten.
> 
> The rest of these people wont say anything until they've been able to sell theirs. Which is par for the course here.



I see certain people rant like this on every forum I am on, you my friend project YOUR attitude on to people you deal with and they respond accordingly. Back when I was a waiter you are the type of person I would have spit in your soup or worse, nobody will ever make you happy so why try. Good luck in life, you will need it.


----------



## BTA

Yeah, I'm the problem, while you're the type of person that would spit in someone's food?

Thanks for chiming in mr 29 posts.


----------



## turbo5upra

??? why the hell would you spit in someones food? 



lil goat said:


> I see certain people rant like this on every forum I am on, you my friend project YOUR attitude on to people you deal with and they respond accordingly. Back when I was a waiter you are the type of person I would have spit in your soup or worse, nobody will ever make you happy so why try. Good luck in life, you will need it.


----------



## OSN

STEPHENM said:


> This reply is reasonably long so bear with me. Thanks to the guys who support me and my company and thanks to the guys who get great pleasure in trashing someone. Simple, you are not happy with the product, call me and I will resolve your problem or simply return it for a full refund.
> 
> It seems that some guys really get their kicks in bringing people down. Remember one thing and those of you know who you are, "what goes around comes around".
> 
> The gentleman who goes by the name of "ThittgFish" his name is Dave and his email address is *FREE ADVERTISING OF A VENDOR'S ADDRESS LOL*.


Uh, Stephen...real classy. The guy complained about the experience he had, you wanted more of a chance to resolve his issue- he's called you, he's called the dealer, seems like he wasn't out for blood out of the gate. I wouldn't be happy if I was in his shoes, nor would I want someone speaking negatively about my company publicly. But the part you can control after the amp went out the way it did- you completely botched. You made a disbeliever out of me.



STEPHENM said:


> Well he called me complaining about Sound Solutions and how bad they are bla bla bla. I have dealt with SSA for over 5 years and have found them to be polite, helpful and honest guys.
> 
> Dave you seem to complain about everyone and everything. You called me on the phone complaining about SSA and I was polite and helpful with you and then you go to the forum and trash me. I suppose it would have been a lot of trouble to pick up the phone and call me with your issues regarding the Kronos.


Although I've never dealt with SSA, I have discussed many things with Aaron and he seems like a stand-up guy; however, I don't think you should discredit this guy's experience as invalid because clearly he has an amp that is not what he was expecting and discrediting the guy with the defective product doesn't seem to make much business sense to me.



STEPHENM said:


> Unfortunately the two technicians I had did some bad things on the amps and this has caused me heartache. This Kronos and others were badly modified, and this is why these guys were fired. Unfortunately I learned the hard way. All Kronos amps now coming off the line have ZERO visible modifications.
> 
> Dave if you had called me I would have paid for the return of the amplifier to Zed, reworked the amplifier so it looks professional and shipped the amplifier within the day. No you choose to trash me.


Well, if you DID fire the techs who did that and you ARE taking responsibility for this mess, just take responsibility and be done with it. That would speak volumes more of your company than the smear tactics. THAT is not taking responsibility, that's trying to make it appear that only a jerk would be unhappy with your products. That's being, well.....



STEPHENM said:


> My apologies to those who have received amps with these ugly mods. On my dime you are welcome to return the amps with the same offer as I have outlined above. Each amplifier returned will include a refund cheque for the freight which you would pay.


This is excellent. Now if only you don't smear them first, it would be even better!


----------



## ChrisB

lil goat said:


> I see certain people rant like this on every forum I am on, you my friend project YOUR attitude on to people you deal with and they respond accordingly. Back when I was a waiter you are the type of person I would have spit in your soup or worse, nobody will ever make you happy so why try. Good luck in life, you will need it.


So wait.... You are judging someone's personality by the way they post on an internet forum? :laugh:

Teh interwebz must be serial bidness.


----------



## turbo5upra

*spits @ OSN*


----------



## Thunderplains

turbo5upra said:


> Steve... please look up the word "review" as they come with the good and the bad....


IMO this has turned from a review into a firestorm vendor bashing.. no?



turbo5upra said:


> ??? why the hell would you spit in someones food?


Yea, seriously? WTF?


----------



## OSN

turbo5upra said:


> *spits @ OSN*


Guess that's better than spitting in my food.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

lil goat said:


> Back when I was a waiter you are the type of person I would have spit in your soup or worse,


 

Thank god I do not eat at McDonalds.


----------



## turbo5upra

I have to agree with OSN...it's kinda like toyota tell's everyone the car's are fixed and alot of us knew they weren't... and still aren't

If you don't know what or why just tell us.... don't treat us like we have no clue.

Then when you get it right a simple we're very sorry here is our resolution please forgive us....



Thunderplains said:


> IMO this has turned from a review into a firestorm vendor bashing.. no?
> 
> There seems to have been equal "nutthugging" to flaming,... I only think a few post where semi out of line that was mostly out of frustration.
> 
> I think it's great of Steve to put his money where his mouth is and support this forum... I know it costs a decent amount of coin to keep it up and running. I have yet to put money up and as I got thinking about it today,... i've been meaning to but haven't done so, as soon as I can I'm going to.
> 
> But for that donation vendors get advertising and other "perks".
> 
> We shouldn't give them a flame suit if they are in the wrong.... He seems to be trying to clean up the mess rather well by his last post.
> 
> A simple:
> Mistakes where made. I'm sorry, I'm fixing them on my dime. The people at fault are no longer in the picture.
> 
> But emotions get in the way when someone questions you..


----------



## ChrisB

Wait a second there, Steve is a supporting vendor? I don't see his name in green.


----------



## craustin

Well, looks like this thread is going nowhere anymore. As consumers we have choices, and we should not be bashing just because the product wasn't for some of you. Hell, look at Toyota, for years they have been at the top, and now I am not even sure they will ever recover. It's not like someones amp caught fire and burned a car, is it? Funny thing is that without the plexi cover on the amp showing the internals, some may have never noticed the fix "imperfections" and been perfectly happy with the product..
I say move on, let's get some constructive and helpful content on the site. Peace.


----------



## turbo5upra

<---- had more than "cosmetic" issues......



craustin said:


> Well, looks like this thread is going nowhere anymore. As consumers we have choices, and we should not be bashing just because the product wasn't for some of you. Hell, look at Toyota, for years they have been at the top, and now I am not even sure they will ever recover. It's not like someones amp caught fire and burned a car, is it? Funny thing is that without the plexi cover on the amp showing the internals, some may have never noticed the fix "imperfections" and been perfectly happy with the product..
> I say move on, let's get some constructive and helpful content on the site. Peace.


----------



## turbo5upra

I was going on the flaming vendor comment.... I may have assumed too much, and we all know what assuming gets....



ChrisB said:


> Wait a second there, Steve is a supporting vendor? I don't see his name in green.


----------



## ChrisB

turbo5upra said:


> I was going on the flaming vendor comment.... I may have assumed too much, and we all know what assuming gets....


As of yesterday, he had 15 posts with 14 of them in the ZED Amplifier Group Buy thread and the other one was in this thread to respond to allegations.

That is all I am going to say because we all know things go downhill fast when I interject my personal opinions about money and what not....


----------



## fastlane

Steve, 

Let me start out by saying; I was shocked at your response. How a company handles a situation says more about their product than the product itself. Needless to say I certainly would not do business with someone who conducts himself in the manner in which you felt justified. Anyone who offers a service lends himself to criticism, both privately and openly. You are not going to be able to please 100% of your customers, but how you handle yourself speaks worlds about your character. 

I am a huge fan of SVS. I have been dealing with Todd and Steve for years and have nothing but great things to say about them. Have they released some products with issues; certainly. I've witnessed it first hand. It's how they handled the sitation that drives me to continue doing business with them. They've never made an excuse about an issue, and went above and beyond what even I felt was necessary, to rectify the situation. 

Meeting customers expecatations in this current economy is not enough anymore. We have to exceed it in every sense of the word. And when you can't, I certainly would not recommend resorting to internet bashing to even the score. It accomplishes nothing other than more lost business. 

JMTC. 

Travis



STEPHENM said:


> This reply is reasonably long so bear with me. Thanks to the guys who support me and my company and thanks to the guys who get great pleasure in trashing someone. Simple, you are not happy with the product, call me and I will resolve your problem or simply return it for a full refund.
> 
> It seems that some guys really get their kicks in bringing people down. Remember one thing and those of you know who you are, "what goes around comes around".
> 
> The gentleman who goes by the name of "ThittgFish" his name is Dave and his email address is ninja edit.
> 
> Well he called me complaining about Sound Solutions and how bad they are bla bla bla. I have dealt with SSA for over 5 years and have found them to be polite, helpful and honest guys.
> 
> Dave you seem to complain about everyone and everything. You called me on the phone complaining about SSA and I was polite and helpful with you and then you go to the forum and trash me. I suppose it would have been a lot of trouble to pick up the phone and call me with your issues regarding the Kronos. Unfortunately the two technicians I had did some bad things on the amps and this has caused me heartache. This Kronos and others were badly modified, and this is why these guys were fired. Unfortunately I learned the hard way. All Kronos amps now coming off the line have ZERO visible modifications.
> 
> Dave if you had called me I would have paid for the return of the amplifier to Zed, reworked the amplifier so it looks professional and shipped the amplifier within the day. No you choose to trash me.
> 
> Dave my man remember the saying!
> 
> My apologies to those who have received amps with these ugly mods. On my dime you are welcome to return the amps with the same offer as I have outlined above. Each amplifier returned will include a refund cheque for the freight which you would pay.
> 
> Now my answers to several posts:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ChrisB________________________________________
> Is Zed claiming that this amp is Made in the USA? I ask because that surely looks like a Chinese build house circuit board with some, how do I say this lightly, "corrections" made after the fact.
> 
> ETA: I stand corrected because that could also be a Korean board!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Chris please explain the difference between a Chinese, a Korean, a USA and a Norwegian made PCB? I would dearly love to know what facts have led you to this fantastic conclusion.
> 
> What is a "Chinese build house" board? I am dying to know the answer to this one!
> 
> A little info for you. FR4 PCB material is now entirely sourced form either China, Taiwan or Korea. The cost to make this in the USA is prohibitive.
> 
> All the surface mount resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, ICs are sourced in Asia. Why? Nobody in the USA makes these parts for commercial applications.
> 
> The power MOSFETs we use are from International Rectifier and Fairchild. None of them are fabricated in the USA even though these are USA companies.
> 
> All the inductors (coils) and transformers use cores from Mag-Inc (Pennsylvania) and Micrometals (Costa Mesa CA).
> 
> Potentiometers are from Tocos, a Japanese company.
> 
> RCA sockets are sourced in China.
> 
> Power and speaker connectors are sourced in either China or Korea.
> 
> So with this said, ALL amplifier manufacturers source the vast majority of their parts from Asia. Why? Price Price Price. I have ZERO problems with these parts, they are as good as any available.
> 
> Go ahead Dave and latch onto the Sloan rip off report. This was almost 5 years ago and the courts ruled in my favour as did Amex. As I told that GENIUS we have a special department at Zed that when any amplifier is sent to us for repair (Be it one of ours or any other) we have tools and machines that we use to trash the amplifiers, gouge the heat sinks, smash panels and printed circuit boards and my favourite, we remove many components from the boards so the amplifier can never work. This is what this rocket scientist claims we did to his amplifiers.
> 
> They were in mint condition when received, mint when they were sent back and mint when we re sold them as B stock.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> rugdnit, ryan s and others, thanks for your support, it is much appreciated.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> BTA you are just rude, and I choose not to reply to your post(s).
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> benny
> 
> Holy ****ing ****. Issues like this with 30+ years of designing and building amplifiers?? These issues shouldn't exist if ZED is everything the nuthuggers say.
> 
> One more thing, where would we be if it wasn't for people standing up and yelling when they get ****ed over?
> 
> Well "benny" your mother should have put some soap in YOUR mouth a few years back.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> turbo5upra
> 
> Brian thanks for the "kind" words. mmm I helped you out, did lots on the house, your Leviathan worked fine you claimed it interfered with your radio.
> 
> If you have nothing nice to say rather don't say anything.
> 
> I spent many hours on the phone with you....well thanks
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> benny
> So, Zed claims that these amps are assembled in the USA, but Mantz isn't in control of sourcing and production? That makes no sense to me, unless the "made in the USA" thing is a lie.
> 
> So "benny" let me in on your secret please. How do you KNOW what I am in control of and what I am not? I am very interested to know where you get your facts.
> 
> For your edification I have a financial interest in a company in Korea which does lots of work with me and source parts which I require and specify.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Luke 352
> 
> There is no re stocking fee for a product returned under our 30 day return policy.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> THIS WILL BE MY ONE AND ONLY REPLY TO THIS POST.
> 
> If anyone has an issue, call or email me and it will be dealt with in a professional manner. I stand by my products and again anyone who needs a product updated or whatever, all they need to do is contact me.
> 
> I am more than happy to spend time on the phone helping people on a one on one basis.
> 
> For those of you who wish to continue saying bad things, GO AHEAD AND KNOCK YOURSELVES OUT..............BE MY GUEST.
> 
> 
> Steve Mantz
> Zed Audio Corporation
> Zed Audio Corporation)


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

So Steve, I would like to get this taken care of, and tried to contact you again today.


How bout you respond to my email with an RMA number........


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

2nd. RMA attempt to Mr.Mantz sent at 0800 hrs 3/5/2010.


----------



## captainobvious

rugdnit said:


> Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that a few whiners cry louder than the majority ( who happen to be quite satisfied with their purchase). As if their voice should matter more. I could tell from his first post in this thread where this was all headed. To me it sounded pretty obvious that he had not done his homework. Especially considering that he expected his product so fast " 18 days and still nothing ". Nobody wants to hear you carry on bashing someone. I for one appreciate the few guys like Steve that are left in the business. Let's see how much you b!tch when those guys are gone. If you are not happy-- go somewhere else.... and be happy.



I find this interesting. The guy was promised delivery on said date. Delivery was not made. Instead his amp was not shipped because of board issues. Then when he gets it, the issues are "fixed" with shortcuts.
Whats your deal? You are ok with this level of service, so everyone else should be too? Then you want to complain because someone else has a gripe...


----------



## captainobvious

ryan s said:


> Oh yeah...people got raped because they have to pay $20 to return it to Zed for a refund  Don't buy a first run of electronics if you don't want issues...I thought everyone knew that...



"Dont buy a first run" ?

So how does anything ever get sold? Why is it the consumers responsibility to battle test equipment and ensure it is built and operating properly? Wheres the logic in that?? 

Thats why we have R&D departements bud.


----------



## ryan s

captainobvious said:


> "Dont buy a first run" ?
> 
> So how does anything ever get sold? Why is it the consumers responsibility to battle test equipment and ensure it is built and operating properly? Wheres the logic in that??
> 
> Thats why we have R&D departements bud.


The logic is that people want stuff cheaper by the day and they want new stuff NOW. Go peruse Hofo and pretty much every section has a "Where are the new phones from ______?" thread.

Analogy: Think about the Windows operating system. Now think about what OS(es) most older machines are still running. 

95 (good), 98 (bad), 2000 (good), ME (disaster), XP (probably their best), Vista (disaster), 7 (I like it a lot  ). I ran the Release Candidate of Win7 from June until a couple weeks ago. Could have had the Beta if I wanted it. Notice how all the bad stuff from Vista was a priority to change in Win7? 

Stuff gets sold to people who want new stuff, NOW, and are willing to pay full intro price. This is who recoups the company for their R&D costs.

Hell, my camera is on firmware 1.3...it even shipped with 1.1 installed. R&D indeed


----------



## fastlane

captainobvious said:


> "Dont buy a first run" ?
> 
> So how does anything ever get sold? Why is it the consumers responsibility to battle test equipment and ensure it is built and operating properly? Wheres the logic in that??
> 
> Thats why we have R&D departements bud.


If you read my previous response you'll know where I stand. That being said; there are always going to be quirks with initial releases, its inevitable. The problem is, it's generally not always the product itself. With technological advances, everything is required to work together. A unit might test out flawlessly in the QC department, and work great with no issues for most people. But then it might not work seamlessly with another piece of equipment in someone elses install. It would be impossible, and far from cost effective, for the mfg to test every possible install configuration available. 

We as purchasers need to have a little semblance of patience as well, during initial product releases. If you don't want to deal with any glitches, you should be looking at older, more established, products. 

I wouldn't have faulted Steve at all for the aformentioned issues. It sounds like the noise issues are not global, but limited to certain installs. That is to be expected with a new product as mentioned. I don't agree with the less than professional fix, or his lack of disrespect in his dealings on the board.


----------



## BowDown

While I do agree with most of your writeup fastlane... this is not Steve's first rodeo. Years of creating great amps should play into your future products. That's the reasoning behind businesses hiring a more experienced worker over one fresh out of college... they have the skill set to make a great product without the mistakes.


----------



## fastlane

I agree with all of your points. I just think it would certainly be a challenge to prepare and design around every possible install. I'm generalizing here, not discussing any particular product. 

Look at the HDMI fiasco us HT guys went through. I'd purchase a receiver, projector, and BR/HDDVD player and everything worked flawlessly. I'd then switch one of the components out and I ran into nothing but headaches. 

I hate downtime as much as the next guy. But as long as it's handled in an expedient and professional manner; I can live with it. 



BowDown said:


> While I do agree with most of your writeup fastlane... this is not Steve's first rodeo. Years of creating great amps should play into your future products. That's the reasoning behind businesses hiring a more experienced worker over one fresh out of college... they have the skill set to make a great product without the mistakes.


----------



## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

Other than trashing me here, this is not being resolved even remotely.......

ALL attempts to return or repair this amp have gone completely unanswered. I seem to be stuck with it, as is, with no choice in the matter.

I only want to use email so there are records if things get drastic. ( And email was clearly a contact option in this case )


----------



## Thunderplains

captainobvious said:


> I find this interesting. The guy was promised delivery on said date. Delivery was not made.


I don't remember anyone getting a promised delivery date.. Most of the amps simply showed up.. personally, I would rather wait and get a product that DID make it out the door with things resolved, esp. if it is a first generation product. First impression is always what sticks.



fastlane said:


> We as purchasers need to have a little semblance of patience as well, during initial product releases.


Well said.. We are the age of NOW and PERFECT. This is a FIRST generation amp going out the door.. New to the world only a few months back. Regardless of WHO he is, it is still a first run. Many years back, I was the proud owner of one of the first Audi TT coupes to hit american soil. Was completely new and different than anything on the roads.. turned heads everywhere.. I had MORE issues with that car and spent more time in the shop in the first year than I can count.. Did I jump up and down and demand a return? Did the CEO of Audi America make any attempt to try to contact me and let me know that the TT had glitches and he would do everything in his power to resolve them all? not a chance. I ended up driving home one day leaking coolant all over the engine bay, and when I pulled in the driveway, my turbo and engine were almost melted.
Does anyone remember when the ZED Gladius & Deuce came out? and today those amps get 6 star reviews and are sought after.. Why? bugs were fixed and in this thing called "time" they ended up being solid amps.



BowDown said:


> While I do agree with most of your writeup fastlane... this is not Steve's first rodeo. Years of creating great amps should play into your future products. That's the reasoning behind businesses hiring a more experienced worker over one fresh out of college... they have the skill set to make a great product without the mistakes.


I would like to see a first run of ANY product that did not have a bug in it.. I have a picture somewhere of a Mac 601 amp that actually has 2 solder fixes on the board and a jumper. Think Macintosh would care how you feel? or post here or try to resolve YOUR particular issue? You are correct, this is not Steve's first go at it by far.. Like I said above, his other amps are solid performers now and I am sure they had their issues when they first went out the door as well. But that was back before the age of demanded perfection.
I had a conversation with him the other day, he fired the guys that caused this uprising and he is now DOING THE WORK HIMSELF. Give these products a chance to work out the bugs.. Maybe a year from now this will be a whole different conversation.

I would not want to be in his shoes.. It would suck to deal with us.


----------



## turbo5upra

So you bought a brand new car and just about had a crap box on the way home because of a issue and you didn't feel like you had gotten taken for a ride?

I'm not sure what to say......

I would hand it back to them and say lemon law anyone???

The thing that most pissed me off about the dealings with Steve was..... I sent the amp back to Zed, I didn't want it anymore and since Steve had been so great to deal with I thought i'd cut him some slack since he repaired one of my amp's "on the house" for the deal with sending my amp back and spending a bunch of time trying to work the issues out in my car, So I found a buyer.

The fellow diy'er asked why I didn't want it and I told him... it's not for me... It puts out the power he stated but It has these 2 issues with it. He Gladly sent me the 500.00 I asked and I sent the money to ship it to him to Steve on a Thurs.

I told Him the money was on the way that day. The following tuesday I called and asked if he had sent it out.... nope... So I asked what it would cost to 3 day it. I then asked if he could cover The amount for a few hours till I could get it paypaled, he said he wouldn't get it out until the following day..... needless to say It didn't go out the next day.... I got a line about the power going out..... I stated that It was getting a bit out of hand and I thought he should cover the rest for the next day air to which he fired off a sarcastic email about the power being out of his control.

Which made me think back to a few weeks prior when I was on the phone with him about something and he got another call.... I hear him say I was in ny i'm sorry.... and a bit more....

He gets back on the phone and says something like... I'm working a set of high end tube amps for a fellow and I completely forgot about them... I told Him I had to go to Ny. I laughed and said... why didn't you stop by and take a look @ my amp while you where here...


Made me second guess the power issues,...


I didnt proof this... will in a bit just wanted to post it up lol.


----------



## JayBee

ryan s said:


> 95 (good), 98 (bad), 2000 (good), ME (disaster), XP (probably their best), Vista (disaster), 7 (I like it a lot


Eww...2000 = good?


----------



## BowDown

ryan s said:


> 95 (good), 98 (bad), 2000 (good), ME (disaster), XP (probably their best), Vista (disaster), 7 (I like it a lot



Let me correct this.

3.11 (good), 95 (crap), 95b or 95c (good), 98 (crap), 98se (very good), Me (garbage), 2000 pre sp2 (good), 2000 after sp2 (great), xp (best), vista (garbage), 7 (good so far)


----------



## Thunderplains

BowDown said:


> Let me correct this.
> 
> 3.11 (good), 95 (crap), 95b or 95c (good), 98 (crap), 98se (very good), Me (garbage), 2000 pre sp2 (good), 2000 after sp2 (great), xp (best), vista (garbage), 7 (good so far)


Right on the money.. I am waiting for my Win7 Ultimate to come in.. looking forward to it.. I see you got ME in there.. What about CE, ME, NT??


----------



## DS-21

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;979181 said:


> Other than trashing me here, this is not being resolved even remotely.......


Why don't you just stop payment on your credit card? Seems like the only reasonable approach at this point.



Thunderplains said:


> Well said.. We are the age of NOW and PERFECT. This is a FIRST generation amp going out the door.. New to the world only a few months back.


Amps are very simple devices, though. They take in an input signal, and increase the amplitude of it. They even all have a standard input and output, the former being line-level RCA plugs, and the latter being speaker wire.



Thunderplains said:


> I have a picture somewhere of a Mac 601 amp that actually has 2 solder fixes on the board and a jumper. Think Macintosh would care how you feel? or post here or try to resolve YOUR particular issue?


I would think that depends on whether McIntosh used the circuit board as an aesthetic feature. To my knowledge, they do not make it thus, so repairs that are perfectly functional but not necessarily aesthetically pleasing are reasonable. 

By contrast, it seems to me that less-than-elegantly executed solder joints on an amp with a plexiglas cover to expose the circuit-board would be more analogous to Mac selling an amp with meters that had a typo whited out and the correct character written on top of it by hand with a Sharpie than to your example.

Now. I personally don't care what my amps look like, because ideally once gains and crossovers are set nobody will ever see them again. But I've certainly returned other product for cosmetic flaws that didn't impact performance per se. 

Funny thing is, if the Zed amps had a normal metal cover, instead of going for bling with the plexi and the gaudy, pointless "ZED" LED's on the board, nobody would care what the repair looked like as long as it worked. Chances are, nobody would even see it! And I'm glad I found a JL HD600/4 at a price I was willing to pay, because until Mantz revealed a customer's e-mail address I was also considering running my whole system off of a Leviathan.


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## ryan s

2000 as in server/professional. I guess "good" is on a sliding scale with Windows :laugh:



BowDown said:


> Let me correct this.
> 
> 3.11 (good), 95 (crap), 95b or 95c (good), 98 (crap), 98se (very good), Me (garbage), 2000 pre sp2 (good), 2000 after sp2 (great), xp (best), vista (garbage), 7 (good so far)


Ahh...95 was about when I started to pay attention to computers. Still remember when using a mouse was AWESOME, coming from command lines :laugh:


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## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

DS-21,

I would have loved to stop payment, but the money was taken from PayPal over a month ago.


It seems trying a dispute is my only solution, there seems to be zero intention of making this right with me.


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## ErinH

DS-21 said:


> I would think that depends on whether McIntosh used the circuit board as an aesthetic feature.


Exactly what I was thinking.

Had Zed not chosen to make the amp's guts seen via his plexi/glass cover, he would not be having some of the complaints he's getting.

However, since he did decide to go this route, I'm surprised that when the repairs were being made someone (whoever made the repair) didn't have enough common sense to do it in such a manner that it wouldn't scream "HEY, OVER HERE" when completed.

Double edged sword... someone fell on it.


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## Thunderplains

bikinpunk said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.
> 
> Had Zed not chosen to make the amp's guts seen via his plexi/glass cover, he would not be having some of the complaints he's getting.
> 
> However, since he did decide to go this route, I'm surprised that when the repairs were being made someone (whoever made the repair) didn't have enough common sense to do it in such a manner that it wouldn't scream "HEY, OVER HERE" when completed.
> 
> Double edged sword... someone fell on it.


True.. can't argue with a view.. I was going more in the direction of first release, but that applies..


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## turbo5upra

Think a poll is needed as to if Steve is still reading this thread?


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## rugdnit

captainobvious said:


> I find this interesting. *The guy was promised delivery on said date*. Delivery was not made. Instead his amp was not shipped because of board issues. Then when he gets it, the issues are "fixed" with shortcuts.
> Whats your deal? You are ok with this level of service, so everyone else should be too? Then you want to complain because someone else has a gripe...


Nobody was promised said product by ANY date. That was my was first real gripe. To raise such a fuss over 18 days when many had been waiting longer-- give your head a shake. I think both parties could have conducted themselves better. Mantz may be old school and doesn't respond as fast as we would like him to perhaps, but overall I cannot say that I am unhappy. It should not have taken this thread spiraling out of control to get things rolling in the right direction. The guy gets his amp and within minutes posts up pictures for all to see. If Steve was not aware that these problems occurred he should have been afforded the option to right the customer. Instead the customer seemingly took pleasure in posting up the problem rather quick no? Steve offered to take it back and I hope this gets resolved, but the way that ThingFish set this all in motion was the wrong way to go about it.


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## TrickyRicky

bikinpunk said:


> Had Zed not chosen to make the amp's guts seen via his plexi/glass cover, he would not be having some of the complaints he's getting.


Like I said before also. Who ever did those repairs probably forgot that it had a plexi-top. Otherwise the repairs should of being done below the board (if any space available). I can say that the guy at TIPS do a very good job at making sure nothing looks out of the ordinary. My recently upgraded PA-II looks perfect, everything looks professional as if it was done that same day it was built.


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## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

rugdnit said:


> Nobody was promised said product by ANY date. That was my was first real gripe. To raise such a fuss over 18 days when many had been waiting longer-- give your head a shake. I think both parties could have conducted themselves better. Mantz may be old school and doesn't respond as fast as we would like him to perhaps, but overall I cannot say that I am unhappy. It should not have taken this thread spiraling out of control to get things rolling in the right direction. The guy gets his amp and within minutes posts up pictures for all to see. If Steve was not aware that these problems occurred he should have been afforded the option to right the customer. Instead the customer seemingly took pleasure in posting up the problem rather quick no? Steve offered to take it back and I hope this gets resolved, but the way that ThingFish set this all in motion was the wrong way to go about it.





Pay better attention then. I WAS promised that the amp would be shipped on a specific day.

And the pics are for a REVIEW thread........ Do you install an amp, THEN take it's pics for a REVIEW?
After seeing the work I TRIED to contact BOTH the vendor, AND ZED to get an RMA, because I was fearful to power the amp up with the shorted surface componenets. Hopefully the caps drill the points home.

Take the blinders off sir.


BY THE WAY, he is WELL aware of the issue now, and is doing NOTHING to take care of it. So I should believe it would been any different a week ago? ROFL


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## rugdnit

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;979509 said:


> Pay better attention then. I WAS promised that the amp would be shipped on a specific day.
> 
> And the pics are for a REVIEW thread........ Do you install an amp, THEN take it's pics for a REVIEW?
> After seeing the work I TRIED to contact BOTH the vendor, AND ZED to get an RMA, because I was fearful to power the amp up with the shorted surface componenets. Hopefully the caps drill the points home.
> 
> Take the blinders off sir.
> 
> 
> BY THE WAY, he is WELL aware of the issue now, and is doing NOTHING to take care of it. So I should believe it would been any different a week ago? ROFL


" got my amp today... pics for examination " -- pull your head out.... how long did you wait for an RMA? You ran straight here and aired the problem. Mantz was not aware of what his employees did until this whole thing spun out of control. IF you were a standup guy you would have conducted yourself better.


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## ChrisB

It could always be worse: Phoenix Gold Phorum // View topic - Not pleased with Zed's (Stephen Mantz') service

ETA: I wonder if those techs were fired too?


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## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

rugdnit said:


> " got my amp today... pics for examination " -- pull your head out.... how long did you wait for an RMA? You ran straight here and aired the problem. Mantz was not aware of what his employees did until this whole thing spun out of control. IF you were a standup guy you would have conducted yourself better.




How bout this, 

I am STILL awaiting an RMA.... I have waited over a week. How long would you like me to wait? Are you even reading?! I have posted how many times that I still have no had a response to multiple RMA requests over the last week?


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## DS-21

Jeanious2009 said:


> Like I said before also. Who ever did those repairs probably forgot that it had a plexi-top.


Doesn't Zed only currently sell two amplifiers, both with plexi tops? 

And couldn't one reasonably assume that the these repairs aren't done in an assembly-line fashion, but with one tech disassembling the amp, effecting the repair, and putting it back together? 

Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but even if I am it's still careless and sloppy on the part of Zed's to not inform the relevant techs that care should be taken to preserve the appearance of the board, given that it is an aesthetic feature of the amp. And it's also sloppy to not engage in post-repair QC to ensure that customers receive amps with all of their features - including aesthetic - in tact. Failure to do so is squarely in their court.


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## rugdnit

Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ;979527 said:


> How bout this,
> 
> I am STILL awaiting an RMA.... I have waited over a week. How long would you like me to wait?


I will agree with you that you should not have to wait a week. I am not saying Steve is right here, but had things not blown up here perhaps he would have gotten it taken care of faster. Catch more flies with.....


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## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

rugdnit said:


> I will agree with you that you should not have to wait a week. I am not saying Steve is right here, but had things not blown up here perhaps he would have gotten it taken care of faster. Catch more flies with.....




I should have caught plenty flies when my money was removed from paypal.


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## ChrisB

Jeanious2009 said:


> Like I said before also. Who ever did those repairs probably forgot that it had a plexi-top. Otherwise the repairs should of being done below the board (if any space available). *I can say that the guy at TIPS do a very good job at making sure nothing looks out of the ordinary.* My recently upgraded PA-II looks perfect, everything looks professional as if it was done that same day it was built.


Uh, I am going to have to disagree with you on that one. Look at how one of my amps came back from the place I refuse to mention:










He laughed it off saying it was tamper paint on the screws, but this was on the other side:









I often wonder if that is why his repair job held up a whopping FOUR months?

ETA: For the record, that WAS conductive!


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## ryan s

ChrisB said:


> It could always be worse: Phoenix Gold Phorum // View topic - Not pleased with Zed's (Stephen Mantz') service
> 
> ETA: I wonder if those techs were fired too?












Seriously...you and Dave are sitting in the shoutbox trying to troll, flame, and make this into as big of a ****fest as possible. I see you doing it right now. 

Digging across the whole internet to find snippets which uphold your side of the story...from people you've never talked to...quite pathetic.

I have lost any respect for what you have to say, since it doesn't really have any substance...it's just feeding the flames, and that's what you like to do most. *****, and ***** some more. 

+1 for the Ignore List. Working on +2 but I want to see how this works out.


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## 2chGUY

rugdnit said:


> " got my amp today... pics for examination " -- pull your head out.... how long did you wait for an RMA? You ran straight here and aired the problem. Mantz was not aware of what his employees did until this whole thing spun out of control. IF you were a standup guy you would have conducted yourself better.


Why the hell does it matter how quickly he took the time to try and save others from the crap he's dealing with...?

What ever happened to "the customer is always right"..?

Get off your knees, wipe off you chin, and realize who's to blame here. It's certainly not the guy who put out the cash for a "quality" piece of equipment. I appreciate ThingFish's posts... It's saved me some coin. For an guy who apparently has been in the business and been designing amps for so long, he certianly makes newb diy mistakes.


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## rugdnit

2chGUY said:


> Why the hell does it matter how quickly he took the time to try and save others from the crap he's dealing with...?
> 
> What ever happened to "the customer is always right"..?
> 
> *Get off your knees, wipe off you chin*, and realize who's to blame here. It's certainly not the guy who put out the cash for a "quality" piece of equipment. I appreciate ThingFish's posts... It's saved me some coin. For an guy who apparently has been in the business and been designing amps for so long, he certianly makes newb diy mistakes.


My apologies.... I was operating under the assumption that we were all adults here. Continue with your schoolyard smackdown.


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## TrickyRicky

Chris,

You only know what that really was. Either paint (from the paint he adds on the screw, which that what it looks to be, since TIPS uses blue for painting the screws as factory seal) or either a real piece of metal (which it does not seem to be, BLUE metal??But from where???). To me it looks like a piece of plastic from the cover of a capacitor. 

*Also you may know that those blue capacitors were replaced when modded, can you even tell that by looking at the board?????*

PS: TIPS USES BLUE PAINT THAT IS GLOSSY (appears to be a metalic blue look). I can take pics of close ups of my modded amps and you be the judge.


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## Ţĥıπģ₣ıѕђ

PayPal dispute has been opened.


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## OSN

All you had to do was call him, Dave.


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## Thunderplains

Wow.. This is getting way out of control.. We have gone from review (good and bad) to absolute **** storm on someone's character.. 
We all have our defects, seems that amp manufactures have more 

Some of us had no issues, some of us had issues that were quickly resolved, some have issues period. Seriously guys.. We can rant and jump all over other peoples **** here, but does it fix the issues or just throws gas on the virtual fire?

Yes, ThingFish had a bad experiance, no doubt. Does that mean that the next guy in line will end up worse? Probably not.. Alot of people purchased his amps.. Then again, alot of people purchased amps he designed as well.. no noise there..

I don't think Mantz (or any other company owner) gets off on building a crap product and selling it to the public. It will be fixed, made better and eventually, the Kronos and Leviathan will fall into the same catagory of all his other products. Solid.

Does anyone have anything good to say? or did everyone get shafted here?


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## OSN

I didn't get shafted or taken care of. I'm an independent party that happened to be shocked at the disservice granted someone. I'm sure Steve has treated many customers great...and if they had a problem with their products, well, knowing how it COULD go is worrisome enough. No thanks.


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