# Image Dynamics X69 vs Dynaudio MW160GT vs BC 6NDL38



## frankmehta

Hi people. I am running a set of Illusion CH1 horns powered by a DLS A2 amplifier and a set of Dynaudio MW160GTs mounted in the stock door locations, running of a DLS A3 and a pair of Adire Koda 10s running of a Clarion DPX11551. I am very happy with the sound in my car, but sadly, one of the Dyns has given up and makes a sound when stressed.
I would love to keep the Dyns but this sound pisses me off. 

Which is the best replacement for these? 

Current Xover points:
Horns: 1000 hz 18 db
Mid: 80-2500 hz 12 db
Subs: 80 hz 12 db


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## BuickGN

Dyn 650.  Much better midbass, midrange, just an amazing refined speaker.


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## frankmehta

EXXXXXXXXpensive (understatement!) but fantastic suggestion. Was looking on those lines too, but then again, salivating at a speaker doesn't buy it for you :-(


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## Niebur3

Curious, where did you buy the Dyns?


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## frankmehta

From a nice guy on the forum, a guy called Trojan Fan


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## rawdawg

Why the crazy overlap between the horn and the mids? Some kind of SQ trick?

I've heard all the above and would characterize the BC's to be light/snappy/precise, the Dyn's to be neutral/inoffensive/smooth and the XS69's to be brutal. These are just my artistically bent impressions.


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## subwoofery

Using horns? ID X69 over the other 2 due to cone area and sensitivity. 
I see that you had to overlap your horns and midrange coz your Dyns couldn't keep up. Using the ID X69 will let you use a more "standard" Xover point up to your horns. 

ID over the B&C coz the ID is 4 ohm which will make use of your A3's power better... 

My best 0.2c, 
Kelvin


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## frankmehta

I thought the same too. As for the x69, will they fit into stock locations?? I see they protrude quite a bit.


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## subwoofery

frankmehta said:


> I thought the same too. As for the x69, will they fit into stock locations?? I see they protrude quite a bit.


You're the only one that can tell. Just measure your depth. 

Kelvin


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## frankmehta

My Ford Fiesta comes with 5x7 speakers stock. But I think the mounting depth of 3 5/8th inches might be pushing it. Would the 57x do??


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## minbari

rawdawg said:


> Why the crazy overlap between the horn and the mids? Some kind of SQ trick?
> 
> I've heard all the above and would characterize the BC's to be light/snappy/precise, the Dyn's to be neutral/inoffensive/smooth and the XS69's to be brutal. These are just my artistically bent impressions.


that was the first thing I saw too..........I would think the horns would play into that region nicely with no help from the midbass.


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## minbari

frankmehta said:


> My Ford Fiesta comes with 5x7 speakers stock. But I think the mounting depth of 3 5/8th inches might be pushing it. Would the 57x do??


I think the x69 is only 3 1/2" deep or less? the neo magnet is pretty small on em, so they might drop in with minimal coaxing.


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## subwoofery

minbari said:


> that was the first thing I saw too..........I would think the horns would play into that region nicely with no help from the midbass.


It's not that the Dyn's helping the horns, it's more like the Dyns can't keep up with the horns and in order to keep the transition smooth at the Xover point, he needs to overlap like he's doing now... 
^ reason why I don't understand how people can suggest the Anarchy to mate up with horns... Yes it can do it but no it's not suited 

Kelvin


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## frankmehta

Hey how will the Legatia L6 midbass fare in this case?


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## subwoofery

frankmehta said:


> Hey how will the Legatia L6 midbass fare in this case?


Same kind of sensitivity than the Dyns - aka not efficient enough. 

Kelvin


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## nubz69

rawdawg said:


> Why the crazy overlap between the horn and the mids? Some kind of SQ trick?
> 
> I've heard all the above and would characterize the BC's to be light/snappy/precise, the Dyn's to be neutral/inoffensive/smooth and the XS69's to be brutal. These are just my artistically bent impressions.


So which was your favorite, what are you running now and why.


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## frankmehta

Got tired of looking for ID 69x mids. Have ordered the Legatia L6. Let's see how well they play. Heard good stuff about them.

ALSO, I went down to the car today and played around and have managed to eradicate the overlap with the horns LPFed over at 1250 hz and the Mids HPFed at 1250 hz. Sounds quite good at decent volumes but at a slightly lower than average volume is all highs and no mids!


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## subwoofery

frankmehta said:


> Got tired of looking for ID 69x mids. Have ordered the Legatia L6. Let's see how well they play. Heard good stuff about them.
> 
> ALSO, I went down to the car today and played around and have managed to eradicate the overlap with the horns LPFed over at 1250 hz and the Mids HPFed at 1250 hz. Sounds quite good at decent volumes but at a slightly lower than average volume is all highs and no mids!


As stated earlier, you HAVE TO overlap because your mid isn't efficient enough. To be honest, you'll have the exact problem with your L6 and you will either: 
- need to overlap or 
- bring down the level of the horns by a lot... 

Kelvin


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## frankmehta

Installation of the mids and tuning will probably be on Saturday. Hence I shall come back and post here . The mids will be new and will need breaking in, which means my preliminary findings might not even matter. Let's hope for the best.


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## goodstuff

frankmehta said:


> Installation of the mids and tuning will probably be on Saturday. Hence I shall come back and post here . The mids will be new and will need breaking in, which means my preliminary findings might not even matter. Let's hope for the best.


These xs69's are awesome. I looked for a used pair for a looooong time before I gave up and bought new.(mistake)


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## minbari

Why mistake?

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


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## goodstuff

minbari said:


> Why mistake?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk


Ordering from ID after Eric Stevens left was a mistake. I'm to lazy right now to dig up the link.


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## rawdawg

nubz69 said:


> So which was your favorite, what are you running now and why.


It would be a toss up between the XS69 and the B&C for completely different reason's. ID to head bang and the B&C's to jam. Funny thing is, I run Dyn 172's but I have a pair of 2118's just giving me the stink eye from the storage bin.


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## SSSnake

> It's not that the Dyn's helping the horns, it's more like the Dyns can't keep up with the horns and in order to keep the transition smooth at the Xover point, he needs to overlap like he's doing now...
> ^ reason why I don't understand how people can suggest the Anarchy to mate up with horns... Yes it can do it but no it's not suited
> 
> Kelvin





> As stated earlier, you HAVE TO overlap because your mid isn't efficient enough. To be honest, you'll have the exact problem with your L6 and you will either:
> - need to overlap or
> - bring down the level of the horns by a lot...
> 
> Kelvin


I'm sorry but I am just not following this. How does overlapping the xover point do anything to help the Dyns keep up. It won't raise the efficiency at all. IMO and IME this is not the correct approach.


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## subwoofery

SSSnake said:


> I'm sorry but I am just not following this. How does overlapping the xover point do anything to help the Dyns keep up. It won't raise the efficiency at all. IMO and IME this is not the correct approach.


Can't really explain it but... before installing the X65, I used the Full size CD1e v.3 (107dB) with my Focal K2P (87dB) - and the only way to mate well with horns was either to have a high Xover point (2.5kHz on both LP & HP) or to overlap (2kHz on LP and 1kHz on HP). 
^ try it if you have a "not so efficient" driver laying around... 

Kelvin


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## frankmehta

Thanks a lot people. Installed these in my car yesterday. They are still being broken in and have played them for only an hour. As of now, they are very promising. NO overlap of x-over frequencies required. They already have more detail then the Dyns and (surprisingly) are hitting much much harder. I am shocked to see them deliver so much more, with the same power I was giving the Dyns. I am loving the sterile yet hard midbass and there is an almost clinical accuracy in the midbass production.
Let's wait and see if they require any EQ. I feel there is a peak somewhere, but can't really point a finger. RTA will help. But that's after a few weeks.


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## Patrick Bateman

frankmehta said:


> Got tired of looking for ID 69x mids. Have ordered the Legatia L6. Let's see how well they play. Heard good stuff about them.
> 
> ALSO, I went down to the car today and played around and have managed to eradicate the overlap with the horns LPFed over at 1250 hz and the Mids HPFed at 1250 hz. Sounds quite good at decent volumes but at a slightly lower than average volume is all highs and no mids!


Yep. This phenomenon is probably the #1 reason I started obsessing about Unity horns about six years ago. I'd started with a pair of B&C DE250s on homemade tractrix HLCDs, and I could never get the transition from HLCD to woofer to work. And I tried EVERYTHING I could think of!

I tried putting the woofers in various locations, everywhere from the rear deck to the rear quarter panels to the kick panels to the floor. Oddly enough, the rear quarter panel worked better than the kick panels.

Then I tried large format compression drivers. That was a little better, but the problem was still there.

Then I started doing Unity horns, and that's where I've been for six years now.

I believe the reason that the transition from the HLCDs to the midbass is wonky is because the wavefront shape needs to match. IE, if your horns are 20" wide, then your woofer needs to be 20" wide too. Ideally, the two waves would radiate from the same point in space. If that's not practical, the woofer and the HLCD should at least be equidistant. (the MOUTH of the HLCD, not the driver itself. The wavefront expands at the mouth, not where the driver is physically located.)

BTW, that's why the waveguides and horns on prosound speakers are generally the same width as the woofer:


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## thehatedguy

FWIW, JBL Pro Parts has the waveguides used on the LSR monitors as a separate part. About $70 each though...but they are the EOS waveguide.


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## frankmehta

Holler!

Starting V2 of this install. Have changed 5 cars since this post. And the Illusion Audio CH-1 were in hibernation for that time, since I didn't get down to really putting in much time on an active setup!

Well, this time around, I got a Volkswagen Polo and I am going all-in!!!!
Suggestions welcome!


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## T3mpest

Try an actual high effeciency driver with your horns this time. It's a complete waste of the horns dynamic ability to use them and then pair them with mids that are designed to mate up to standard tweeters.


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