# Quality of Prime vs Punch Shallow Woofers?



## mennitti (Aug 10, 2009)

Can anyone (preferably dealers) give me informed input on the quality differences between two 10" Rockford Fosgate "Prime" woofers and two 10" Rockford Fosgate "Punch" woofers? They will be installed in a daily driver quad cab truck with about 300 watts, Top 40 type music. Is there a noticeable difference spending the extra on the "Punch" woofers? 
Thanks


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Why the preference for dealers? Of course they'd tell you to buy the more expensive one. To me asking dealers is like asking car dealers what the best car to buy is, their answer will always be the more expensive one, with the underbody coating of course.

Instead you should ask and give more consideration toward the enthusiasts. For example are you stuck only buying between those two? Because Rockford's mass market stuff like their Prime is very mediocre, pretty much just a step above Pyle's. Believe me the Prime's only have 5.8mm of Xmax. That's very small and you definitely will be pushing them to their limits if you start playing deep bass. Those are 150 watt subwoofers. And if you're gonna buy two of them, why buy two turds vs getting one decent subwoofer? That's the newbie mistake, gotta have two subs, even if all you can afford is two crappy subs.

It is definitely worth it instead of buying two Primes to buy one Punch. But even in that lineup I wouldn't even consider getting anything less than the Punch P2. It has 10mm Xmax but for $82 on Sonics I'd much rather get something else. In the same price range you can get an Alpine Type S with 15mm Xmax, or my suggestion would be the RE SRX with a whopping 18mm of Xmax. Xmax is what's gonna enable you to play deep bass. Enclosure and tuning is what will make or break the sound quality.

The SRX would definitely be the deepest playing sub in the lot with the excursion it has. And RE's tend to be under-rated in terms of power handling since they are actually thermally rated so you know they're not gonna burn up if you decide to bump it for extended periods.


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## mennitti (Aug 10, 2009)

Now there was an intelligent response. Thanks. I prefaced "Dealers" because I expected some high school kid to tell me how great he thinks something is, even though he has no experience with something better.

Our shop does not carry Fosgate and I always liked the brand. We can get Alpine, but I wasn't aware their shallow sub was any good. I have no experience with RE.


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## a-minus (May 7, 2013)

Well, I'll give you the dealer response. Stay away from the prime series. Stay far away. The comparison to Pyle is very accurate IME. Like qwertydude though, I think you could do better than the punch as well. I haven't been extremely impressed with RF woofers of late.


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## mennitti (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks. My Sport Trac is very limited for space and I don't want a box under the seats. I'm not looking to boom, I just want some low end and a little kick. I thought maybe two shallow woofers behind the seats would do what I'm looking for. 

Thoughts?


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## a-minus (May 7, 2013)

It's been a while since I worked on a sport track, so I don't remember exactly how much room there is. It sounds like you'd be a lot better served by a nicer single woofer than two inexpensive ones. What are you looking to spend on the subs?


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## mennitti (Aug 10, 2009)

A friend offered me his 2 new Primes for $50, since I was considering buying Punches. This is what made me question if they were worth it since the price was right.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

if your going shallow, check the new JL sub. installed one the other day and it literally blew me away. il post a vid when i can


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JL Audio 10TW3 shallow sub - YouTube


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

forget the prime and the punch...unless $50 is your budget. ( your friend is selling them for cheap for a reason  )

I have a brother who sells both punch and prime subs and any number of other crappy subs...they sound bad. ( i'm not a teen...i am over 50..with a lot of years of listening to subs, both good and bad).

what's the goal? and whats the budget? One semi shallow sub that sounds great is the Polk MM series.

i would avoid the true shallow mount subs...like the daytons, and such...they sound tomechanical to me.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

mennitti said:


> Now there was an intelligent response. Thanks. I prefaced "Dealers" because I expected some high school kid to tell me how great he thinks something is, even though he has no experience with something better.
> 
> Our shop does not carry Fosgate and I always liked the brand. We can get Alpine, but I wasn't aware their shallow sub was any good. I have no experience with RE.


If you can manage it I'd say smaller brands to definitely carry would be RE Audio for subwoofers and Image Dynamics for all around Speakers and subs. I mean generally I go around to car audio shops and either I see just the same old Big Box brands like Fosgate, Alpine, JL, Pioneer etc. Or you see them crammed with flea market stuff like cheap MA Audio, Audiobahn, or some relabeled Chinese junk that they try to tell you is an exclusive custom made super special subwoofer and then you see them also with a few ultra high end stuff collecting dust.

Rarely do you see the real performers like Image Dynamics, RE, Sundown, DD, or FI. You'll definitely be able to differentiate your branding by carrying those brands.

I do suggest reading up on those and exactly why those those brands do better. I can tell you if I were in the business of selling a particular brand I would learn everything there is to know and be able to tell it to anyone who asked be it lay man or technical expert why you should choose a particular brand or type of subwoofer.

I mean if all you can say to your customers as to why something is better is, it costs more. You're no better than a shady car dealer selling underbody coating. You should be able to tell them it's got better stronger magnet material, the tweeter is a soft dome vs hard dome and how it'll affect sound, what ferrofluid is for, how different materials affect sound reproduction, crossover frequencies, speaker breakup. I myself don't have car audio installed since I do it all myself. But I do have other work done and if I am not convinced as to my contractor's expertise to my satisfaction, and I hold high standards, I will simply walk out. I can spot salesman BS a mile away.

Familiarizing yourself with Thiele Small parameters and how it affects subwoofers will easily enable you to simply at a glance give you a good idea how a subwoofer will perform. You'll be able to see why Rockford's lower end stuff really is just bottom of the barrel stuff especially compared to what you can get for the money from some of the smaller lesser known brands that really specialize in say subwoofers, componenet speakers, amps. Usually particular brands really shine in one area, it's rare for them to make everything good. And Rockford falls well short in the subwoofer department.


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## a-minus (May 7, 2013)

miniSQ said:


> forget the prime and the punch...unless $50 is your budget. ( your friend is selling them for cheap for a reason  )
> 
> I have a brother who sells both punch and prime subs and any number of other crappy subs...they sound bad. ( i'm not a teen...i am over 50..with a lot of years of listening to subs, both good and bad).
> 
> ...



This. If you have room for more than a shallow mount, then take advantage of it. I haven't loved any shallow mount sub that I've heard.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

I hate Prime.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

a-minus said:


> This. If you have room for more than a shallow mount, then take advantage of it. I haven't loved any shallow mount sub that I've heard.


Granted, this is a whole different league, but...
Carbon C10 | Illusion Audio

Using the same basic principals on a much smaller budget, this might be worth a try (not that I have heard one myself)...
STEALTH Subwoofers


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## a-minus (May 7, 2013)

rton20s said:


> Granted, this is a whole different league, but...
> Carbon C10 | Illusion Audio
> 
> Using the same basic principals on a much smaller budget, this might be worth a try (not that I have heard one myself)...
> STEALTH Subwoofers


I really shouldn't have made such an absolute statement. I haven't heard the Illusions, but something tells me I would like them, shallow or not. And I can actually think of another shallow sub that impressed me.

Diamond Audio S104 HEX Series 10" shallow-mount subwoofer at Crutchfield.com

They don't make them anymore, but my coworker has two in his wife's civic, and they sound phenomenal.


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## mos805 (Nov 30, 2011)

I had the Punch P3 sub and honestly even for being the "top of the line" in the punch series I was not impressed it was very muddy and sounded like it was made just to go boom. Had an Alpine Type E subwoofer installed for a while and that was much better a lot better SQ and the output was actually almost on par with the Rockford, and I would say they are fairly shallow mount subs. Now I have an Image Dynamics IDQ12 in the car and its the best so far. If you can afford it I'd go with Image Dynamics but for budget I honestly think the new Apline subs are very good for the money.


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## Crimedog (Jun 25, 2020)

qwertydude said:


> Why the preference for dealers? Of course they'd tell you to buy the more expensive one. To me asking dealers is like asking car dealers what the best car to buy is, their answer will always be the more expensive one, with the underbody coating of course.
> 
> Instead you should ask and give more consideration toward the enthusiasts. For example are you stuck only buying between those two? Because Rockford's mass market stuff like their Prime is very mediocre, pretty much just a step above Pyle's. Believe me the Prime's only have 5.8mm of Xmax. That's very small and you definitely will be pushing them to their limits if you start playing deep bass. Those are 150 watt subwoofers. And if you're gonna buy two of them, why buy two turds vs getting one decent subwoofer? That's the newbie mistake, gotta have two subs, even if all you can afford is two crappy subs.
> 
> ...



I have a 10" Prime and it will play any deep bass you throw at it.


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