# Rainbow Profi Kick Bass , Profi Phase Plug Comparison ...



## JAG (May 6, 2006)

I used the 6.5" Profi Kick component set all of last year ... and loved it. But this year I built a new system in the car, that uses both the Profi Kick and the Profi Phase Plug 6.5" mid-bass drivers. I decided before I called the system finished , I would take some time and switch between the two drivers , and try and get a fix on their different characteristics.

Here's the set up in the doors :











All I did for the test , was physically switch the mid-bass drivers to the front-most position in the doors. The mounting ring for those drivers are angled up and slightly back , and the MDF panel they are mounted to is 1.5" thick.
The doors have 4 layers of Dynamat Extreme on both the inside door skin , as well as the door panel itself. There is a 18" x 12" piece of Focal Black Hole Foam behind the drivers.

Listening :

These sets sound remarkably similiar , as they should be coming from the same designer. This makes integrating them together as I have in my car VERY easy. The Kicks have vastly superior mid-bass capabilities above 80 hz when compared to the Phase plugs , but then again the 6.5" Kicks smoke every other 6.5" driver I have ever heard in that department , and can hold their own against most of the best 8" offerings. So this was no suprise.
The Kicks have as close to perfect mid-bass tonality as i have heard , and make the frequencies from 80hz to 250hz rip right through you. Bass guitar , cello , and any other instruments which play fundamentally in this frequency range , has a leading edge as sharp as a knife. Transient speed and tonality is beyond belief. Floor tom , as well as ALL drums seem as if you are right in the room with them , and will pound your chest with realistic authority.
Rainbow designed this driver to have these positive traits , as one would expect with them calling it " Kick " bass .... But with all of the focus placed on the mid-bass region , one would expect to possibly have some issues with mid-range clarity and finesse ..... and this is where the BIG suprise comes in. While comparing head to head with the Phase Plugs , i noticed very little difference in the tonality of male vocals , or any other lower mid-range instruments ! This means Rainbow did a damned good job getting the frequency response smooth on the Kick Bass set.
The differences heard with the Phase Plugs was definitely noticable , but more minor than I had expected them to be.
The Phase plugs had more resolution than the Kicks did as expected , and vocals sounded more effortless and more realistic. The Phase plugs also imaged somewhat better , with sharper focus and better spacial clues in the soundstage. However, soundstage size was about the same with either set , which suprised me some. 
While the Phase Plugs had a more livelier sound , and more resolution , they managed to always stay smooth and keep much of the natural ( some call it warm ) sound that Rainbow is known for. I really appreciated this trait a lot !!! *Many of the speakers generally considered resloution champions , often have this resolution at the expense of musicality.* With the Phase Plugs however , they managed insane resolution while still sounding natural and musical. As far as I'm concerned , THIS is the mark of a near perfect speaker. While the mid-bass was VERY good , and what I would call snappy , there is just no way of comparing it to the dominance of the Profi Kick .... so I didn't try to  

( As a side note : I shortly compared the Phase Plug set with the pair of Seas Lotus Reference I have , and found three things to be immediately obvious .... The Rainbows had EVERY bit of the resolution the Seas did , but sounded much more musical. The Rainbow tweeter was MUCH , MUCH better , and sounded much more life-like. The Rainbows would play many times louder than the Seas would , and do so with no sings of strain )...

I was pleasantly suprised at how much both of the sets of Profis sounded so much alike for the most part , and VERY pleased at how easy they are to get to sound great together as part of a three was set-up !
If I had to choose between the two ,* it would all depend on my set-up * ... If I had went to the trouble of placing a very good mid-bass driver of 8" or more in my doors , then i would go with the Phase Plugs ..... However if I was going to use one of these sets in only a two-way system , and depend on the set to take care of everything 80hz and up ... I would choose the Kick Bass versions. They sound too similiar for the most part , but dominate mid-bass like NO other 6.5" driver can ! So there is my answer  

Luckily , I don't have to choose !  I'm using the Kick drivers to play from 80hz to 250hz , and the Phase Plugs to play from 250 and up .... and DAMN is it sounding great ! best of both worlds just can't be beat !

The Review system :

Clarion DRZ-9255 HU / TWO Arc Audio 4200 SE 4-ch amps ( each bridged to two channels ) using one amp for both left channels , and one amp for both right channels ( infinite stereo separation ) .... and one Arc Audio 2300SE for my single Boston Acoustic SPG-555 sub. Three Batcap 800 batteries / Daxx pure silver RCAs , and Daxx Silver/Copper Hybrid speaker wire , ALL 10 ga. All Daxx accessories.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Been waiting for a review on those bad boys. What slope are you using?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Post up your music.


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## VaVroom1 (Dec 2, 2005)

oh the boston spg-555! care for a review of the sub also?


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## jearhart (Jul 28, 2006)

wow! very nice setup and a great review to go along with it. good job


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> Been waiting for a review on those bad boys. What slope are you using?


12 db/oct on the Profi Kicks at 80 hz .... Everything else is 18db/oct


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

VaVroom1 said:


> oh the boston spg-555! care for a review of the sub also?


Yeah ... Give me a couple of weeks.


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## platinum300 (Dec 24, 2005)

Great review. What's the difference between the Rainbow Profi Kick Bass and the Profi Vanadium Kick Bass? Which one is better?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

platinum300 said:


> Great review. What's the difference between the Rainbow Profi Kick Bass and the Profi Vanadium Kick Bass? Which one is better?


hint of cold(metal cone) vs a hint of warmth(paper cone)..


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## platinum300 (Dec 24, 2005)

Where's the best place to buy them on-line?


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## c0mpl3x (Nov 30, 2005)

platinum300 said:


> Where's the best place to buy them on-line?


3.5max6spd


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## montyburns (Jan 3, 2006)

So the drivers shared airspace during the listening tests, with one playing and the other one passive? I would feel a bit concerned about that for critical listening comparisons- anyone else?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

montyburns said:


> So the drivers shared airspace during the listening tests, with one playing and the other one passive? I would feel a bit concerned about that for critical listening comparisons- anyone else?





AVI said:


> All I did for the test , was physically switch the mid-bass drivers to the front-most position in the doors. The mounting ring for those drivers are angled up and slightly back , and the MDF panel they are mounted to is 1.5" thick.
> The doors have 4 layers of Dynamat Extreme on both the inside door skin , as well as the door panel itself. There is a 18" x 12" piece of Focal Black Hole Foam behind the drivers.


'If' they were sharing airspace i dont see the issue being only one was playing, and both drivers were placed on same mounting position for evaluation. The Focal black hole should sufficiently handle the backwaves,


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

I have another question. Does the Profi Kick project a powerfull front stage when used in a 2 way? I want to give them a try, but afraid they will sound tiny when it comes to staging and midrange compared to Seas drivers.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> I have another question. Does the Profi Kick project a powerfull front stage when used in a 2 way? I want to give them a try, but afraid they will sound tiny when it comes to staging and midrange compared to Seas drivers.


The Profi Kicks were considerably better in EVERY way when I compared them to the Seas Lotus .... Resolution will not be quite up to par with the Seas , but it will sound more musical , more natural , and less fatiguing. The Kicks have a GIANT sound , and will play much louder than the Seas. Drum kits will have life like impact , and the Seas just can't hold a candle in that race.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

montyburns said:


> So the drivers shared airspace during the listening tests, with one playing and the other one passive? I would feel a bit concerned about that for critical listening comparisons- anyone else?


You're worried about sympathetic cone interaction ? No way ... Not with the Black Hole behind the drivers. And not mounted on a 1.5" MDF panel with 4 layers of Dynamat extreme on it.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

I'm sold, thanks.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> I'm sold, thanks.


Please let me know how you like them .... Also , you need to allow about 10 hrs of break in time ... They are a high QTS design.


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## sqgator (Sep 28, 2006)

AVI said:


> The Profi Kicks were considerably better in EVERY way when I compared them to the Seas Lotus .... Resolution will not be quite up to par with the Seas , but it will sound more musical , more natural , and less fatiguing. The Kicks have a GIANT sound , and will play much louder than the Seas. Drum kits will have life like impact , and the Seas just can't hold a candle in that race.


I concur. Rainbow Profi/Profi Vanadium have thicker midbass and less fatiguing, I happen to own both Rainbow Profi Vanadium and Lotus Ref. But then again it maybe just my preference for certain type of sound.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

How much do they run for?


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## amator (May 3, 2006)

AVI said:


> The Profi Kicks were considerably better in EVERY way when I compared them to the Seas Lotus .... Resolution will not be quite up to par with the Seas , but it will sound more musical , more natural , and less fatiguing. The Kicks have a GIANT sound , and will play much louder than the Seas. Drum kits will have life like impact , and the Seas just can't hold a candle in that race.


If the profi kick is to be used in a 3 way front set up, will the detail and resolution lost to the lotus be secondary (crossed LP to abt 630-800hz). 
or will the phase plug be e a better choice ie better mid bass than lotus but a bit less than the kick with better detail.


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## slim j (Nov 30, 2005)

I was all about the profi phase plug before I read this review. From what I gather, the Kick's advantage in the lower frequencies make up for the (not necessarily lack of but I can think of a better word) higher frequencies in comparison to the phase plug.

I really appreciate this review.


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## MIAaron (May 10, 2005)

x3, how much do the kickbass run?


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## sqgator (Sep 28, 2006)

slim j said:


> I was all about the profi phase plug before I read this review. From what I gather, the Kick's advantage in the lower frequencies make up for the (not necessarily lack of but I can think of a better word) higher frequencies in comparison to the phase plug.
> 
> I really appreciate this review.



In a 3-way set-up, you don't need the profi phase plug as phase plug in 2-way is supposed to have better midrange details than profi/profi kick bass versions, but in 3-way set-up, the midrange freqency is taken care by the 4" midrange speaker.


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## amator (May 3, 2006)

makes sense, unless u plan to play midrange from 1 khz whereby 1khz and below might not be as detailed as phase plug version.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

MIAaron said:


> x3, how much do the kickbass run?


x4


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## enzowho (Dec 25, 2006)

The Profi Kickbass should run you about 340 for the pair. That's what I got mine for at least.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

They are much cheaper then that if you get them through 3.5max6spd on this forum or premieraudio on caraudio.com


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Derrin,
Is there any noteable perfomance difference between the Pro and the Profi versions of this driver?? I'm talking about the predecessors to those you have in your car...or the W160's. They have a black dustcap instead of the grey and say _Kick Bass_ on them. 

Thanks!


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey Hi Ho,

Ok, Rainbow speakers are starting to get to me here! I am really interested mostly because I have heard so much good about them and yet can't find a place to listen to them... and it is wierd to buy speakers just on the word of others! 

Right now I am using Focal K2P upgraded versions and overall they are really very good. They image great, have a very articulate ability with tweeter resolution that is amazing, the midbass is very impressive overall but sometimes they are sort of bright in the high end. They also play incredibly loud without break up. 

So, how would Rainbows compare assuming this system: McIntosh 440M amp, Alpine IVA-D200 HU / H701 Processor (active Xover as well) - IDMax 10 powered by Zapco 750 Reference? 

Price wise, I am probably looking at the Profi line. What qualities would describe the overall sound? This review does a nice job dealing with resolution and the general feeling of the mid-bass driver, but what about the high end? Has anyone heard both the Focals and the Profis that might comment?

I just found out I have a healthy tax return coming, so that has my speaker bug itching in the worst of ways! I was thinking I might just try the rainbow tweeter on the Focal system. Another option would be to by the "regular" Profi used on Ebay for $500, or I could just buy the drivers raw and not buy the x-over, or just buy the kick system new. At the moment, I am leaning toward that option. 

Thanks for the information - I am posting this seperately as well just to see.

Thanks much for your opinion!
Less/Jim


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

I would say stick with the focals. the K2Ps are amazing! If you are unhappy with the brightness of the tweets, you may want to aim them differently. Personally I couldnt justify buying another set of speakers that you dont have the ability to audition for yourself when you already have an amazing set.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

bobditts said:


> I would say stick with the focals. the K2Ps are amazing! If you are unhappy with the brightness of the tweets, you may want to aim them differently. Personally I couldnt justify buying another set of speakers that you dont have the ability to audition for yourself when you already have an amazing set.


You've used Rainbow's....or at least have spent some time with them I take it??

The K2P's are amazing...if YOU as an installer and tweaker are amazing. I've heard Focal's that sounded like someone was yelling at me through a used toilet paper roll...all nasily and offensive. And man that inverted dome is nice...IN THE RIGHT SPOT!!! 

I never auditioned my current speakers and somehow they worked out for me. And they REPLACED Rainbow's! My car might not be world class, but I bet you'd have the tendency to stick around and crank it if I gave you some seat time.  When you buy quality product from Rainbow, JM Labs, whatever....at least you know you will get somewhat of a predictable and consistant performance out of them. 

Your questions are legit Less. Of course your ears are the final judge, but AVI has a TON of experience with a lot of speakers so I will let him field your questions. Personally, I don't think I've ever seen a negative review on Rainbow speakers...maybe I need to get out more??


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

I havent had a chance to listen to rainbows. But my point was that if he already has $700 speakers, why think about buying a completely different set when you cant hear what they sound like before hand?


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

less said:


> Hey Hi Ho,
> 
> Ok, Rainbow speakers are starting to get to me here! I am really interested mostly because I have heard so much good about them and yet can't find a place to listen to them... and it is wierd to buy speakers just on the word of others!
> 
> ...


Less/Jim .... I'm an authorized dealer for both Focal as well as Rainbow. The Profis are MUCH more natural sounding speakers than the Focals are. The Rainbow tweeters are much , much better ( actually the best small format tweeter I have ever heard ) , and in general I personally don't think the two you listed are even comparable .... Then again , I installed a set of Focal Utopia Be in a car , and after months of tuning , I FIRMLY believe the Profis at $719 per pair are better than those $6000 Focals .... Believe it or not !


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Derrin,
> Is there any noteable perfomance difference between the Pro and the Profi versions of this driver?? I'm talking about the predecessors to those you have in your car...or the W160's. They have a black dustcap instead of the grey and say _Kick Bass_ on them.
> 
> Thanks!


I didn't have much experience with the older Rainbow offerings. I don't believe they changed anything other than the dustcap , but I'd contact Rainbow to make sure. They are distributed by Distinct International.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

bobditts said:


> I would say stick with the focals. the K2Ps are amazing! If you are unhappy with the brightness of the tweets, you may want to aim them differently. Personally I couldnt justify buying another set of speakers that you dont have the ability to audition for yourself when you already have an amazing set.


I guess it's really a matter of personal taste .... I wouldn't EVER use any set of Focals in my own car. I have heard them in hundreds of installs , and I have NEVER found them to sound natural. Rainbow is simply amazingly un-colored. Two years ago at the CES show , or was it Sema ? Anyway , I walked around with my head installer listening to all of the different manufacturer's cars .... Rainbow had a car with a pair of $280 components that sounded better than other manufacturer's BIG BUCK offerings .... It was right then I knew Rainbow was something special. Since then , I have often talked people out of buying other brands of speakers costing several thousand dollars , and into Profis instead ..... Even though this is bad for my pocket book , *I must truly HEAR a pair of multi thousand dollar speakers be able to sound better than the $700 dollar Profis to justify pushing them to my customers. *
I would gladly pay $2500 per pair for the Profis if they were priced that way ..... They are just THAT good.
I don't have to really _sell_ the Profis , I just let people hear my car and it is all over


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

I thought I had better add this post .... I'm going to be accused of being "only Rainbow " , and that is just not right. Fact is , I'm an authorized dealer for Boston , Focal , Hertz , Dyn , Arc , Critical Mass , ect , ect ....
I have personally used over 25 different component sets in my cars over the years. It's as simple as this for me .... *At this time , NOTHING I have heard compares with Rainbow at or near the same price points .... *
Cheers


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

How about the Powerline CS mids vs the Profi Kicks for midbass duty??


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## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> How about the Powerline CS mids vs the Profi Kicks for midbass duty??


I will let you know how they sound in the next few weeks, gonna order a set in the very near future


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

finebar4 said:


> I will let you know how they sound in the next few weeks, gonna order a set in the very near future


Sweet! I expect a full report on the intricate differences between them and the RW165's! Team n00b Lotus (that's right, both of us!) sends all our best to our fellow Rainbow compadres!


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## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

You got it buddy, I love the Lotus, just want to see how these monsters compare. I am taking bets now, I think I know who will win the midrange detail round, but I am thinking I know who will win the kick in the chest round too . They look good on paper, we'll see how they stack up.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

For my Lotus N00b friends , might wanna let u know that Seas drivers aren't the most efficient drivers out there 
So you can't just swap drivers, unfortunately..


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

I get my Profi kicks tomorrow. A review is in order.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Well, I received my profi kicks. They are very nice but visually, not as impressive as the well built Seas drivers. We'll see what they are capable in the next few days.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> Well, I received my profi kicks. They are very nice but visually, not as impressive as the well built Seas drivers. We'll see what they are capable in the next few days.


Cool!!! If I remember correctly, my RW165's were twice the weight of my Vanadium mids.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Which one do you like better?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> Which one do you like better?


Seas: Midrange clarity and detail in a 2-way, snappyness, solid midbass in a 3-way.

Rainbow: Smooth and natural midrange and nice low end output. I only ran these in a 2-way.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Got 1 in. Midbass is very articulate and healthy. Blended right in with my sub without any eq adjustments. Now I need to get the second one installed.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> Got 1 in. Midbass is very articulate and healthy. Blended right in with my sub without any eq adjustments. Now I need to get the second one installed.


Hey Ocuriel .... The Kicks are a high Qts driver , and will need a definite 10 solid hours of playing time before they really start to shine. Any judgements you make before then may be pre-mature  Also , you have already found one of the kicks very best traits .... They blend SOOOOOO damn well with subs !! Enjoy , and I look forward to hearing your opinions.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Now that I'm using a combination of Kicks and Phase Plugs I can say this ..... In a direct comparison of the Phase Plugs and the Seas Lotus set , the Phase Plugs have just as much resolution and detail as do the Seas , but maintain a more musical and less fatiguing sound while doing so ...


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey all,

Well... my Profi Kick system arrives tonight! I am looking forward to hearing a pair of Rainbows at long last. In the Dallas area I just have never found anywhere to hear these - so I bought them mostly on the reviews I have read, and comments from owners. Rainbows sure seem to be well recieved for a brand that has so little US market - but I guess like a lot of people, I will kind of enjoy owning something somewhat rare here. I have only seen one psuedo-negative comment on them so that says something.

I am looking for that warm sound... non-fatiguing and just relaxed sound. Something you can play at medium level and still fall asleep to if the music is right, and something that can dazzle your senses when called upon by the system to do so. So far I have tried Alpine Type Rs, Infinity Kappa's, A/D/S/ 346CS, A/D/S/ 346IS, A/D/S PX concept tweeters and finally Focal K2Ps on this quest. The high end ADS and the Focals are both truly great speakers... but they seem to be on either side of what I am looking for. (Although it will be VERY hard to out do the Focal Midrange when properly adjusted)

Hopefully these will work out great... and if they really have that sound I am questing for... I can see a pair of platinum tweeters in my future as soon as I can get some buck saved up! Either way, I think I will write my first review after I get them in - past the 10 hour breakin and have some time to really enjoy them.

Thanks for all of your information here... man I hope I can say all these great things too!

Jim/Less


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

less said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Well... my Profi Kick system arrives tonight! I am looking forward to hearing a pair of Rainbows at long last. In the Dallas area I just have never found anywhere to hear these - so I bought them mostly on the reviews I have read, and comments from owners. Rainbows sure seem to be well recieved for a brand that has so little US market - but I guess like a lot of people, I will kind of enjoy owning something somewhat rare here. I have only seen one psuedo-negative comment on them so that says something.
> 
> ...


Good Luck, Less. I'm in Dallas and would love to hear these when you get them installed. 

Do you install all your own equipment or have a shop you trust?


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Got my second one in and listened again. Makes my sub sound superfast. I like them so far. I will post a review after the break in period.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

I am a DIY guy. I honestly don't know if it is because I have a tight budget or because I get some joy out of taking car doors apart, cutting metal, cutting fingers and having to order new door inserts to screw the screws that hold the door garnish in place! In truth, I would do it myself anyhow - glutton for punishment.

Right now my install is sort of in pieces. I have my amp boxes and trunk mounting installation about 3/4 complete, but the wires are all just hanging around at the moment. I have to redo the wiring since the addition of the PXA-H701 processor that allowed me to be rid of three pair of 16ft Streetwires and a remote wire too boot... all in all it looks kind of a shambles right now. I just have a hard time getting out in the garage when the weather is in the 30's haha... but this is Texas so probably by the end of February, you will not be able to tell that it is the same car!

Hopefully some time in there I will be able to sell my Focals for a reasonable price, otherwise they will end up playing surround sound duty on the odd occassion that I watch a DVD. (I do a lot of Ipod videos but they do not rate surround sound).

When I get the system presentable, get it through a RTA processor that I am planning on doing fairly soon and feel good about the whole deal, I would be happy to meet up with you somewhere and we can compare notes. I also like to see what other people use for test music... sometimes you can find some good stuff that way.

I just love playing with new speakers... starting to get pretty stoked for this weekend!

Jim


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

less said:


> I am a DIY guy. I honestly don't know if it is because I have a tight budget or because I get some joy out of taking car doors apart, cutting metal, cutting fingers and having to order new door inserts to screw the screws that hold the door garnish in place! In truth, I would do it myself anyhow - glutton for punishment.
> 
> Right now my install is sort of in pieces. I have my amp boxes and trunk mounting installation about 3/4 complete, but the wires are all just hanging around at the moment. I have to redo the wiring since the addition of the PXA-H701 processor that allowed me to be rid of three pair of 16ft Streetwires and a remote wire too boot... all in all it looks kind of a shambles right now. I just have a hard time getting out in the garage when the weather is in the 30's haha... but this is Texas so probably by the end of February, you will not be able to tell that it is the same car!
> 
> ...


I'd be glad to get together with you. All of my equipment is still in boxes so you're farther ahead than I am. I have a few things I need to get done to my car and I'll be making some moves.

Good Luck and let us know how they sound. BTW, what are you running for subs?


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

ocuriel said:


> Got my second one in and listened again. Makes my sub sound superfast. I like them so far. I will post a review after the break in period.


*" Makes my sub sound superfast. "* ......... Yesiree !! That's what I keep preaching


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

ocuriel said:


> Got my second one in and listened again. Makes my sub sound superfast. I like them so far. I will post a review after the break in period.


Nice. What xover points are you using? I found through the use of the Kickbass to be a bit of haze in the reproduction that clears up after hours of break in. It affects the sharpness of the kick and the midrange a bit. After some time they start to sound damn nice


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

3.5max6spd said:


> Nice. What xover points are you using? I found through the use of the Kickbass to be a bit of haze in the reproduction that clears up after hours of break in. It affects the sharpness of the kick and the midrange a bit. After some time they start to sound damn nice


I agree. They definitely sounded better this morning. 

I have them at the reccomended highpass @ 80 hz 12db and no lowpass for now. Haven't had time to myself to work on my tweeter pods.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

At the moment I am using a single 10" ID MAx in a small sealed enclosure... it should be interesting to see how these blend together. I will be using an active xover with the recommended xover points to start: sub 20 - 80k at a 6 or 12 slope, kick at 80-2.4 12 @ each end, and the cal 26 coming in at a 12 slope for above 2.4k. It seems logical to go with the designers numbers at least to start, but I don't anticipate messing with the kick bass lower end slope or xover point at all unless I move it up from 80 (and I don't see doing that).

What is with the Hiquphon OWI tweeters I see a lot of here? I looked around for them a bit just to see what they were all about but haven't had luck finding them so far. Actually, I shouldn't get curious - then I will want to try a pair lol... somewhere along the line you just have to stop!

Jim/Less


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## slim j (Nov 30, 2005)

How do you set up your substage to play flat to 80hz to match up with the Profi Kick? Sealed? Ported? Big or Small box?


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

slim j said:


> How do you set up your substage to play flat to 80hz to match up with the Profi Kick? Sealed? Ported? Big or Small box?


Who me? If it is.....

I have the Infinity Perfect which is a damn well sub. Plays up to that range with no problem. It's in a sealed roughly 1 cubic ft fiberglass box.


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## slim j (Nov 30, 2005)

Anyone really

I wondered if a 12 good play that high.

I have an FI audio Q. I will talk to Scott about playing to Hz.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

FI audio makes solid subs. It shouldn't be a problem at all.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

slim j said:


> Anyone really
> 
> I wondered if a 12 good play that high.
> 
> I have an FI audio Q. I will talk to Scott about playing to Hz.


Slim ... It's all in the proper design and construction of a great sealed enclosure for me.


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## slim j (Nov 30, 2005)

AVI said:


> Slim ... It's all in the proper design and construction of a great sealed enclosure for me.



Do you have any suggestions?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Back in the day, we used woofers that were 12" and didn't call them subs, or cross them over as subs and they were often driven well above the range they are now well up into the midrange. In fact, 12" two way home systems were pretty common. 

12" drivers these days may be designed to play primarily in the lower region, but I would be very surprised is almost any sub would have issue reproducing frequencies well over 100hz. The reason we don't ask them too is because subs are usually trunk mounted, and often singular rather than plural. When you get below about 80hz, low frequencies are sort of omni directional and you no longer benefit nearly as much from having stereo seperation. In a vehicle it is ideal to have as much sound as possible coming from the front stage and if you are going to have to have a driver in the trunk, you want it to reproduce as little as possible so that your sound stage remains primarily ahead of you.

Therefore, subs are almost always crossed over under 100 hz in cars - and anything above that is handled by the front midwoofers. That way you benefit from the stereo seperation through out the entire range where you can notice it.

Short story - don't worry... chances are high that your 12" sub will be fine if you have to cross it over all the way up to 100 - 150hz. Thats my story and I am sticking to it!

I just bought the Kicks in a 6.5 version and use an 80 xover and even though they are a little shakey yet due to break in, you can tell it is going to sound fine! In fact, the kicks blend much better with my subs than my previous speakers did.

Less...


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

slim j said:


> Do you have any suggestions?


Yeah .... I 'll comment on that. 
Just a few years ago , about the only way to make a sub really come forward in the soundstage was praying inverting the phase 180 degrees would do the trick. With modern time alignment , ANY sub will move right up front with you , and thus become easy to tune.
Some subs really are meant for ONLY the " sub " region ( think JL W7 ) ... while other subs are extremely musical up to 80 - 100 hz.
I have had great success with the subs from Alumapro , ID , the JL10w6v2 , and especially Boston Acoustics subs. 
For my money , BA has had the market cornered on musical subs for the past 10 or so years. Their new SPG555 in a 1 cu ft sealed enclosure is simply amazing ... and I mean amazing ! The speed and clarity of the best SQ only subs , with the sheer SPL of the biggest SPL monsters.
Many subs have promised that , but this one is the ONLY one I have heard that I would agree with.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

A little update

I'm sure I have over 10 hrs of play time on my Profi Kicks.

I don't think I love them playing 80 hz @ 12 db slope. They don't sound bad but the bass is not completely upfront where I want it. Damn Seas spoiled me withe ability to go low! It could be the way I have my sub intergrated. Who knows. Well anyways, I have them playing 63 hz 12db slope and I love the way it sounds right now. Very tight full midbass with good composure.


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## aviator79 (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks for the review. I am going to go with the 265 regulars I think. I want to do the kicks, but would want to go with the 365 3 ways, and I just don't have the time right now to build a costom kick panel.


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

thanks for the great review, VERY nice setup there!

Can anyone explain the differences between the profi 6.5" woofers and the vanadium ones? Is it just different cone materials?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

xencloud said:


> thanks for the great review, VERY nice setup there!
> 
> Can anyone explain the differences between the profi 6.5" woofers and the vanadium ones? Is it just different cone materials?


Yes, its the same line, just diff cone/dome materials.


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