# Looking for opinions on 6.5" vs 8" midbass. Which is better?



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I an just looking for some discussion on using 6.5" for midbass vs 8" for midbass. I have heard the output and impact of the 8" is better, plus it can go lower and bring the sub way forward, but is it too slow for the most dynamic midbass passages? Is a 6.5" better for speed? I am talking same manufactures (HAT, Dynaudio, Morel, Scanspeak....etc.) for both, only the size being different.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> Is a 6.5" better for speed?


No.

You need to define "midbass"...as in which frequencies you're alluding to.

Generally the larger cone driver will have more impact due to possibly more xmax, cone area, power handling, etc...but this isn't a working rule in car audio I don't think.

Also, crossing the driver lower doesn't necessarily bring the sub up front. It's really vehicle-dependent as each vehicle has different transfer function.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

By midbass, I am referring to 250HZ and below.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> By midbass, I am referring to 250HZ and below.


And below to what? How high will your sub play? Some run their subwoofers up past 100hz and use high efficiency, low xmax, dedicated mids to provide "punch" and impact around 200 hz and then let their MR's take over from there on up to their tweeters. Some run 2-way systems up-front and run their mids from 50-5khz. All depends on install, budget, goals, etc.

It's hard to answer general questions with specific answers.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> And below to what? How high will your sub play? Some run their subwoofers up past 100hz and use high efficiency, low xmax, dedicated mids to provide "punch" and impact around 200 hz and then let their MR's take over from there on up to their tweeters. Some run 2-way systems up-front and run their mids from 50-5khz. All depends on install, budget, goals, etc.
> 
> It's hard to answer general questions with specific answers.


Okay...I have Dynaudio MD130 Tweeters that will be mounted on axis with Dynaudio Esotar2 430 (3.5" midrange) off the a-pillar which can play down to 250hz. I currently have Dynaudio MW160's (6.5 or 7" depending on who you ask) midbass in the doors of a 1998 Pontiac Firebird in an enclosure with an AP mat on the back & just purchased MW182's to either resell or use. The 182's are 9.5" midbass woofers. I can either mount in the doors (with some work) or the kicks (also with some work). Just trying to decide which would be better to use. I currently run my 160's to about 65hz 18db and the subs come in from there.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> The *182's *are 9.5" midbass woofers. I can either mount in the doors (with some work) or *the kicks* (also with some work).


That's my official vote.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> That's my official vote.


Would you suggest door with ap mat or kick sealed?


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I think the install location has everything to do with it. I ran a set of Kicker freeair 6.5's in my 4 runner doors first. I upgraded to a Morel CAW938's. Night and day diff but I also preped for them. I actually modeled the morels in bass box with the approx door size. By preping the doors I was able to achieve outstanding low end up front. Enought that would justify no subs in the back. So again I think it all has to do with the install and matching drivers to that install.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> Would you suggest door with ap mat or kick sealed?


Kicks for sure if you can. Greater path lengths, more on axis, more sturdy structure to build off of. Enclosure type depends on the driver response. You'll have to model them and see what you get.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> Kicks for sure if you can. Greater path lengths, more on axis, more sturdy structure to build off of. Enclosure type depends on the driver response. You'll have to model them and see what you get.


Now, the other thing is, I have tons of room behind my front fenders that I can build a sealed enclosure and vent the kick to...the only thing I am concerned with is the door puts the mid pretty far forward already and in that car the way you sit the mid fires over your legs and in front of the dash whereas the kick would be buried under the massive dash with legs more in the way. Should this even be a consideration or will the sealed enclosure output make up for the other items?


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

There is a thread in here somewhere some is asking about running midbass in their rear doors. It has a nice reference to acoustic properties of midbass frequencies in the plane perpendicular to the listening position. If I caught the gist correctly you can install a midbass in any location on that plane without easily locating the speaker. The principle was used in the SpeakerWorks (sp) Buick Grand National which had 12s in the rear quarter panels. Look at their website. 

Of course I may have completely missed the boat and I am too tired to search right now. 

That being said I would do kicks if you have sufficient airspace.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> There is a thread in here somewhere some is asking about running midbass in their rear doors.


Search "Circle of Confusion" by Werewolf.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> Should this even be a consideration or will the sealed enclosure output make up for the other items?


More like how long the path lengths from 250 hz and down are. So at 4.5' and up you need something pretty massive or substantial to affect them in a negative way. If they can make it though/around a plastic door panel I think they'll make it around the underside of your dash, some carpet and your legs too. Just how I think of it. Search and read the above link by Werewolf for sure.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> More like how long the path lengths from 250 hz and down are. So at 4.5' and up you need something pretty massive or substantial to affect them in a negative way. If they can make it though/around a plastic door panel I think they'll make it around the underside of your dash, some carpet and your legs too. Just how I think of it. Search and read the above link by Werewolf for sure.


Thanks for all the help/advice. I should have plenty of room in the kicks for airspace after I build the enclosure in the fender area. I think the MW182's would help to give me what I am looking for.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

I'm curious, could someone please plot me the frequency response for both a Dynaudio MW162 and MW172? Or any other woofer family comparing a 6.5"/7" to an 8"/9" driver?

Ideally would like to see from 4000 hz down, but am most interested in 125-1500hz. The performance in that region I consider significant for "impact".


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## radioflyer97 (Mar 30, 2009)

i'd like to see this kick panel.


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## RAYDER (Mar 28, 2009)

FG79 said:


> I'm curious, could someone please plot me the frequency response for both a Dynaudio MW162 and MW172? Or any other woofer family comparing a 6.5"/7" to an 8"/9" driver?
> 
> Ideally would like to see from 4000 hz down, but am most interested in 125-1500hz. The performance in that region I consider significant for "impact".


MW162










MW172










Straight from Dynaudio's Website


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## edman79 (Apr 22, 2009)

I would say neither and go with two 6.5"s.

Eddie Ed


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

rawdawg said:


> Search "Circle of Confusion" by Werewolf.


Jimmy,

Can you provide a link.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

werewolf said:


> 200Hz is localizable, but only to the extent determined by ITD. Therefore any point on a circle, whose plane is perpendicular to a line drawn through our ears, is indistinguishable from any other point on the circle.
> 
> In other words, you can chop off your outer ears for midbass frequencies. What, then, distinguishes "front" from "back"? Besides your eyes, of course  At 200Hz, you can only localize based on ITD. So ... if the driver location "behind" you generates the same ITD as the driver location "in front" of you, you have no hearing mechanism to distinguish one from the other.
> 
> ...


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/17874-dashboard-domes-rear-mounted-midbass-rear-fill.html


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## SQ27801 (Mar 30, 2009)

I have always used Morel MW-220. It goes low and the clarity is one of the best. The mounting depth is only a little bit over 2". It will play down to 40 hz easily.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I would think an 8 is not going to help you that much until you get under ~100Hz where a 6.5 can't keep up and is dropping db....depending on the output you need. I like to run my subs lower, effective response is up to about 60Hz, needless to say a typical mid can't get it on where an 8 would with more ease.


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## Problemhouston (Apr 2, 2009)

It depends on application in my opinion...

I am a midbass freak and used a Macrom shallow 8 in the door of my Nissan p/u a long time ago and loved it. The only problem is that I had to cut a huge hole in the door and build it out and that cost me a lot of $. Now, would I have gotten the same kind of performance from a 6.5 while spending far less. I don't know but dang that 8 made the front end solid and I really didn't need much help from the sub at all.....


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I've never ran a mid larger than 6.5" before. I'm really looking forward to hearing my DLS Iridium 8's whenever I get off my lazy ass and install them.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

8's, in general, will do better. More cone area equals greater output, all else being equal.

"Slowness" shouldn't be a factor. "Too slow" is really the equivalent of saying "frequency response doesn't extend high enough."*** But most 8" drivers intended for midbass use can extend up to 250Hz. Hell, lots of 12" subs can too.

Having said that, my current midbass driver happens to be a 6.5" driver. 

*** = For the technically inclined... transient response can be described by the transfer function because the response to an impulse function measures both 'slowness' (eg. decay) and frequency response (FFT of a delta function is a flat broadband function).


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## gus1111 (Apr 17, 2009)

Kickpanels is the best location for midbass! It is far more solid and rewards one with the best soundstaging!
If you can fit the 8" would be nice. 
You will love the impact and the depth/imaging of the soundstage...
Hope this helps a bit.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

if it fits, install it


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Sorry for piggy backing on this thread. 

Anyone ever use a 6x9 strictly for midbass? Does anybody make a 6x9 component that would suffice for a midbass driver? 

I have a spot in the rear door panel of my 05' Sierra CC that would fit a 6x9 much easier than I could fit an 8. Advice?


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

cajunner said:


> the 6X9 was the original mid bass.
> 
> it was the mid too, highs, everythang..
> 
> ...


Ok. Thanks for the advice Cajuner. It's always nice to have a jump off point when researching for a decision like this.


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## DanMan (Jul 18, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


> Sorry for piggy backing on this thread.
> 
> Anyone ever use a 6x9 strictly for midbass? Does anybody make a 6x9 component that would suffice for a midbass driver?
> 
> I have a spot in the rear door panel of my 05' Sierra CC that would fit a 6x9 much easier than I could fit an 8. Advice?


\
Image Dynamics x69-I use it from 70hz-1200hz but will be installing a midrange to play 175hz or so to 1200hz.

The x69 is a fantastic driver. I am powering them with a Zapco DC1000.4. 500 watts to each. I have never so much as gotten a hiccup out of them.

The trade off is that as a higher efficiency driver, it doesn't extend super low as some seem to prefer.

If you ran these from 300hz to 3000hz in the rear door panels of your Sierra you'd be running some NICE rear fill.

If you do decide to go with an ID product, please consider buying used. The new ID ain't what it used to be.


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## low2001gmc (Aug 27, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> And below to what? How high will your sub play? Some run their subwoofers up past 100hz and use high efficiency, low xmax, dedicated mids to provide "punch" and impact around 200 hz and then let their MR's take over from there on up to their tweeters. Some run 2-way systems up-front and run their mids from 50-5khz. All depends on install, budget, goals, etc.
> 
> It's hard to answer general questions with specific answers.


CONCUR COMPLETELY...


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

low2001gmc said:


> CONCUR COMPLETELY...


Hey what are you running for midbass in your truck? What are you running the rear doors if you have rear doors, I assuming you have a GMC truck.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

This is a 2 year old thread...


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

I realize this thread was brought up from the dead, but I thought this might be helpful for anyone with a 1998 or similar year Pontiac Firebird in need of a midbass solution.
CDT Audio CL-6MB 6.5" midbass enhanced woofer

There is a similar product from the HD and ES Gold lines. These would be good to drop into the rear sail panels next of the Firebird.


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