# Hertz HSK Tuning Help



## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

A week ago I installed a set of Hertz HSK 163 3-ways in the front of my vehicle, amp is an Alpine F6 bridged, so available power is about 300+ w/side but obviously gains turned down, just head room. Dynamics are pretty sweet.

The 6.5" mids are nice & punchy but at higher volumes (88 - 93 db), they start bottoming out, but everything else is fine, crystal clear. I had the gains set to get the most out of old rock stuff recorded at much lower levels and most of that is OK. But even with much lower volume normal (by the last decade's standards) recordings start to cleanly bottom out the 6.5" mids.

Tweaked the EQ to flat/negative on the lower freq's, but too much more and the sound will be out of balance. Crossed over at 100 [email protected] 12db (bumped it up from 80 Hz).

Any tuning advice? Am I asking too much out of these mids & need to rely on my sub to get into the mid-100's Hz range to compensate?


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## jamiebosco (Dec 10, 2011)

A steeper slope would be my first recommendation


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

The mids are rated (specs) for 40 Hz, so you would go with a 6db slope from 100 HZ? I can try a couple different combo's, sounds like a good idea.


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## jamiebosco (Dec 10, 2011)

no I mean STEEPER eg 80hz @ 24dB or 100hz @ 18dB


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

jamiebosco said:


> no I mean STEEPER eg 80hz @ 24dB or 100hz @ 18dB


OK got it, first time deviating from 12db. Hoping this really helps, a bit disappointed with this issue given fairly reasonable expectations of this comp set. But in the near term I'll assume its my underexperiened tuning skills thats getting in the way.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Are your doors sealed and deadened?

You should not have to cross your midbass that high.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

In my opinion, no 6.5" short of one of the high end Scans or Anarchys are going to have much impact below 80hz at high volumes. My last 6.5s sounded incredible and had about 1" of throw before bottoming and I still bottomed them below 80hz. That's when I made the change to a 9" midbass and I've never looked back. Obviously not doable in most 2-way set ups but if you're running a 3-way I highly suggest it. You could probably get away with an 8" just fine without too much beaming. 

For what its worth I'm running 48db slopes on everything and I started at 6db and worked my way up every month or so. My current crossover points are 60/700/4000. It's not the traditional way of running a 3-way but it works best in my car. Don't be afraid to try things that are outside of the norm, you might be surprised. 

With that said, you can make it sound really good with the higher crossover points with careful EQ and TA. I was running my 15s up to 110hz and high passing the midbass at the same and it sounded great. A sub or a pair of subs is going to have much more punch in the 80-100hz range than any 6.5" will. To take my 15s in that region I had to cut around 10db but over time I got it to blend and it was a very dynamic setup. 

Especially in a 2-way, the less excursion the midbass has the cleaner the midrange will likely be.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

ramonesfan said:


> The mids are rated (specs) for 40 Hz, so you would go with a 6db slope from 100 HZ? I can try a couple different combo's, sounds like a good idea.


The ratings don't mean much. They might play to 40hz but they're not going to have much output before bottoming. No 6.5" will in a door unless it's got serious excursion. A 24-48db slope might be what you need to keep the same highpass without bottoming.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> The ratings don't mean much. They might play to 40hz but they're not going to have much output before bottoming. No 6.5" will in a door unless it's got serious excursion. A 24-48db slope might be what you need to keep the same highpass without bottoming.


Not arguing. Just more information.

There are quite a few 6.5" that will play with authority down to 40hz, but most on the market won't. Sure, they won't be as dynamic as a sub in that range, but it does help to keep your low end staging on your dash and in the front of your car with that overlap.

That being said, the drivers at hand will play well below the 100hz he is currently crossing them at. I am more concerned with the install. If the OP hasn't sealed his doors blocking the back wave, then the speakers are going to sound like they are bottoming out prematurely.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Not arguing. Just more information.
> 
> There are quite a few 6.5" that will play with authority down to 40hz, but most on the market won't. Sure, they won't be as dynamic as a sub in that range, but it does help to keep your low end staging on your dash and in the front of your car with that overlap.
> 
> That being said, the drivers at hand will play well below the 100hz he is currently crossing them at. I am more concerned with the install. If the OP hasn't sealed his doors blocking the back wave, then the speakers are going to sound like they are bottoming out prematurely.


My doors are deadened inside & out, not exactly sealed but tightly rolled dynomat inside & out. The bottoming out is a bit of a strange sound, don't know about the back wave? 

I had a shop do the install, 3-yr warranty with shop installation, usually do my own stuff. I made it clear to take their time & do it right, even if it was a few extra $$, which is was.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

I have a set of the HSK-165's sitting on the shelf behind my desk. The HV165 driver definitely won't do anything under 80 in most cars with authority without serious deadening and EQ'ing. Even then, about mid-60's is all you're gonna' get. 

Definitely play with steeper slopes, check your doors as was previously mentioned, and if that doesn't satisfy you, you'll need to try a different mid-bass. I'd hang onto the 3" and the tweeter though, they're solid drivers in that set.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

ramonesfan said:


> My doors are deadened inside & out, not exactly sealed but tightly rolled dynomat inside & out. The bottoming out is a bit of a strange sound, don't know about the back wave?
> 
> I had a shop do the install, 3-yr warranty with shop installation, usually do my own stuff. I made it clear to take their time & do it right, even if it was a few extra $$, which is was.


Nope. It has to be sealed. You'll need to cut out some hardboard, or thin aluminum plate to match your door openings over 3" x 3" or so, then wrap it in deadener, and fasten it to the door. If you just put deadener over the holes it'll flex and kill your response.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

So doing some tuning last night, speakers are still breaking in but its been a week now, always better tuning after dark.....tweaking the fade when I realized the shop hooked up the RCA's backwards so front was rear/rear was front. So changing the crossover on the HU was affecting the rear, not the fronts, and the fronts were actually crossed at 80 Hz. Got the RCA's corrected today and the mids seem to be happier crossed at 100 Hz. 80PRS only gives me a 6db or 12db slope option so sticking with 12db, nothing steeper available on this HU.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Does your amp have a highpass filter? You can use that in conjunction with the headunit's filter.


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## jamiebosco (Dec 10, 2011)

ramonesfan said:


> So doing some tuning last night, speakers are still breaking in but its been a week now, always better tuning after dark.....tweaking the fade when I realized the shop hooked up the RCA's backwards so front was rear/rear was front. So changing the crossover on the HU was affecting the rear, not the fronts, and the fronts were actually crossed at 80 Hz. Got the RCA's corrected today and the mids seem to be happier crossed at 100 Hz. 80PRS only gives me a 6db or 12db slope option so sticking with 12db, nothing steeper available on this HU.


I'm fairly sure the 80PRS has up to a 36dB slope available in Network (?) mode, you must have it set on Standard mode (not sure on the names as I haven't used one before) 
100hz @ 12dB should be fine though


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Does your amp have a highpass filter? You can use that in conjunction with the headunit's filter.


Its an alpine PDX-F6:

Crossover Frequency (LPF): Variable, 30-400Hz (-12dB / oct ), Low-Pass/High-Pass/OFF Selectable

So how would I use that with the HU filter?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

ramonesfan said:


> Its an alpine PDX-F6:
> 
> Crossover Frequency (LPF): Variable, 30-400Hz (-12dB / oct ), Low-Pass/High-Pass/OFF Selectable
> 
> So how would I use that with the HU filter?


You can start by setting the amp's highpass to the same frequency as the HU. Two 12db high pass crossovers will give you a 24db slope. I've messed around for fun and used say an 80hz highpass and a 50hz highpass but setting them both to the same frequency is a good start.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Yep, steeper slope or a higher Xover point. 

125Hz @ 12dB/oct slope should work well, especially seeing the available power (300 watts) 

Kelvin


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

subwoofery said:


> Yep, steeper slope or a higher Xover point.
> 
> 125Hz @ 12dB/oct slope should work well, especially seeing the available power (300 watts)
> 
> Kelvin


Why even have midbass if you have to cross that high. There is obviously an issue somewhere if this is the only solution.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Why even have midbass if you have to cross that high. There is obviously an issue somewhere if this is the only solution.


There's 3 issues in my opinion: 
- 1st - lack of options: the available slopes only suggest a higher Xover point. With the 300watts, even for headroom, it's asking for trouble with a low Xover point and a shallow slope 
- 2nd - the driver: the spec sheet shows 60Hz and having measured a few Hertz drivers, other than the Mille, they don't have that low of an FS 
- 3rd - the driver: yes, the driver again, it's only a 6.5" with 4mm of Xmax. 

Usually, using a midbass down to FS is asking for trouble coz @ FS is where it produces the most distortion - and @ FS, phase goes backward so having a smooth phase transition from subwoofer to midbass is really difficult. 
BuickGN said it already, a subwoofer will be able to provide more punch in that range than a pair of 6.5" drivers. Below 80Hz is all about moving air but I'm sure you know that 

Kelvin


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## copperears (Sep 2, 2010)

> Why even have midbass if you have to cross that high. There is obviously an issue somewhere if this is the only solution.


Perhaps Ramonesfan likes his music loud. What is so bad about crossing at 125hz? I have to have two seperate tuning presets for my system. The midrange can't keep up when I play loud, so I have one preset at 250hz and one for 400hz. 

Recognizing your systems limitations and finding workable solutions is half the fun.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

subwoofery said:


> There's 3 issues in my opinion:
> - 1st - lack of options: the available slopes only suggest a higher Xover point. With the 300watts, even for headroom, it's asking for trouble with a low Xover point and a shallow slope
> - 2nd - the driver: the spec sheet shows 60Hz and having measured a few Hertz drivers, other than the Mille, they don't have that low of an FS
> - 3rd - the driver: yes, the driver again, it's only a 6.5" with 4mm of Xmax.
> ...


Roll your eyes at someone else. I do know that. I also know there is something wrong with the install if you have to cross your midbass at 125hz. Even 100hz is way too high. Getting as much up front bass is key to a proper stage.

I will leave this alone because I am never going to agree with the BAD advice being given. The install needs to be improved. The crossover points don't need to be raised to slap a band aid on the problem. The OP will never learn that way.

For the record, I have my midbass crossed at 40hz 24db and can play insane levels. 

125hz.....psssshh. Hilarious.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

copperears said:


> Perhaps Ramonesfan likes his music loud. What is so bad about crossing at 125hz? I have to have two seperate tuning presets for my system. The midrange can't keep up when I play loud, so I have one preset at 250hz and one for 400hz.
> 
> Recognizing your systems limitations and finding workable solutions is half the fun.


I do tend to listen pretty loud, daily driver, my happy place. Try to find that tuning balance that also works at lower levels so when the wife is with me it sounds good, can even play her favorites at a moderate level, then can bump it up to 90 db or so when I'm driving alone. 

Heading back to the shop Monday AM, been playing with front tuning and just sounded wrong. Played with the balance and when you push the front to 100% L or R, it's still playing out the opposite side (so 100% balance R still has a portion of the sound coming out of the L and vice versa). I didn't see anything wrong with the RCA config but not accustomed to bridging & these Alpines require a 4-way splitter on the RCA's to bridge. Hoping its not a problem with the amp, new F6. Shop hooked everything up with the new HSK's, reputable place, just dont want to interfere with their work until everything is running right.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Roll your eyes at someone else. I do know that. I also know there is something wrong with the install if you have to cross your midbass at 125hz. Even 100hz is way too high. Getting as much up front bass is key to a proper stage.
> 
> I will leave this alone because I am never going to agree with the BAD advice being given. The install needs to be improved. The crossover points don't need to be raised to slap a band aid on the problem. The OP will never learn that way.
> 
> ...


What I find hilarious is the fact that you know it all - that's the attitude I've seen in every thread I've seen you post... 

You have given the OP no advice at all - what kind of advice can you give on the install (remember, the door is deadened) 

If you think that crossing high is a band aid, you have a lot more to learn... In one of my car, I have my mids crossed @ 125Hz 12dB/oct slope and have no problem with the transition from subwoofer to midbass - no one has been able to detect the subwoofer just behind them. Getting upfront bass is a matter of tuning, not a Xover point thing. 

And for the record, having a 40Hz Xover point is good for you but that doesn't make it the right thing to do because *YOU* do it that way :surprised:

Kelvin


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Roll your eyes at someone else. I do know that. I also know there is something wrong with the install if you have to cross your midbass at 125hz. Even 100hz is way too high. Getting as much up front bass is key to a proper stage.
> 
> I will leave this alone because I am never going to agree with the BAD advice being given. The install needs to be improved. The crossover points don't need to be raised to slap a band aid on the problem. The OP will never learn that way.
> 
> ...


A 6.5" midbass HP at 40hz/24db at "insane" levels. I call BS. 

You need to do one of three things: name the model of midbass you're using, meter the midbass so we know what "insane" levels are, maybe insane is 90db to you. Tell us how much power you're running to them. 

If I had to guess, an educated guess based on your history I would say you're lying about the whole thing so you're not going to say what mids you're running because we would know what they are and aren't capable of. 

One thing is for sure, your 6.5" midbass have no appreciable output at 40hz unless they have 100mm of xmax. You can't argue with that, it's displacement and the math can be done to prove you wrong. 

My 15s will play louder (and past 4 kHz) than the rest of the system. I have 9" midbass with 1" of throw with a 40hz Fs so I run a 60hz HP with the sub running the same, all on 48db slopes. For my midbass to keep up with the subs it still takes quite a lot of excursion and I have twice the cone area of a 6.5". There's no reason to play them lower. 60hz makes up front bass extremely easy so I run them that low partially out of laziness. I still have slightly better dynamics at a higher HP. In the past I have had great luck with the midbass taking over in the 100hz range but it requires more tuning. While mine will play lower, I lose dynamics, no 9" is going to be able to match a pair of 15s. Just as no 6.5 is going to play down to 40 or even 50hz with any real output. 

There is nothing wrong with a higher HP for the mids as long as the bass comes from up front. You forget there are those with much better tuning skills that you possess with your passive setup that can run a higher crossover point and still have bass up front. If you're running a 2-way I can only imagine how crappy your midrange must sound with them attempting to play 40hz. 

So, what head unit are you running?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> What I find hilarious is the fact that you know it all - that's the attitude I've seen in every thread I've seen you post...
> 
> You have given the OP no advice at all - what kind of advice can you give on the install (remember, the door is deadened)
> 
> ...


Agreed. But you're wasting your time. This guy is incapable of learning.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> A 6.5" midbass HP at 40hz/24db at "insane" levels. I call BS.
> 
> You need to do one of three things: name the model of midbass you're using, meter the midbass so we know what "insane" levels are, maybe insane is 90db to you. Tell us how much power you're running to them.
> 
> ...


Here we go. The same douche bringing his limited experience into another thread trying to ruin it with arguments.

Just because you bought the name Dynaudio with your speakers, doesn't mean nothing else out there cannot outperform them in some way. You are the arrogant one who has to always talk about what he has when no one really cares. Just because your system can't do something, that doesn't mean someone else's can't. You clearly think you know what you are talking about and it's so hilarious to me every time I read one of your threads. You are totally lost. 

You basically agreed with me but flipped it around just so you can argue. You think about me when you go to sleep at night. It's obvious.

Someone just throw up a poll on this forum. 

Who runs their midbass at 125hz and above......and who doesn't. Let's see the results.

The guy clearly stated his doors aren't sealed which is a HUGE reason he is getting the poor results he is getting. From his responses he doesn't want to address it properly.

If raising your crossover point is the correct solution, then no one would ever deaden and seal their doors and midbass drivers would not exist.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

Wow, that really escalated in a hurry.....Brick killed a guy!

If I'm 'this guy', my doors are deadened, in & out on the fronts, just out on the rears. PRS80 HU, 2 x PDX-f6's, HSK 163 front, HCX coax rear, no DSP. Don't ask about sub stage, that needs some help, its next (500W amp on single sealed 10"). 

Taking it in tomorrow to have the shop check it out since they did the work, front comps sounded great when I picked it up and they were accidentally hooked up to the rear. Since they swapped out the RCA's to correct the front/rear, the front doesnt sound right, even with similar tuning. Rear coax sounds better. Checked the RCA splitters and they appear to be correct, didnt look at the amp settings since taking off those Alpine panels where I have them installed is a pain, plus dont want to mess with their work while we're troubleshooting. 

Hope that 2nd F6 amp is OK, will be a giant PITA to RA exchange, bought it thru Amazon, hope its a new 100% quality amp. They said it was, so it must be true.

Hope to have more info tomorrow.

Carry on with your arguing, actually learning quite a bit!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Here we go. The same douche bringing his limited experience into another thread trying to ruin it with arguments.
> 
> Just because you bought the name Dynaudio with your speakers, doesn't mean nothing else out there cannot outperform them in some way. You are the arrogant one who has to always talk about what he has when no one really cares. Just because your system can't do something, that doesn't mean someone else's can't. You clearly think you know what you are talking about and it's so hilarious to me every time I read one of your threads. You are totally lost.
> 
> ...


His doors are deadened. Instead of name calling, why don't you try to disagree with facts. You've contributed nothing. You can't prove me wrong in any sort of technical terms so you resort to name calling as you have every member who has come into contact with you in every thread. There's nothing but fluff, no substance in your posts, just some angry pissed at the world little dick ******* taking his bitterness out on anyone who will listen. 

No 6.5" on the planet without the assistance of a port is going to do anything at 40hz. Do the math, you're not going to get even 60db. It's not going to overcome engine noise at idle. It's wasted power and unnecessary distortion. Do you mean to tell me your Kmart 6.5s will displace more air than my 9s? If so, list the model. 

And as I predicted you won't name these "super" 6.5s that will play 40hz at "insane" volumes lol. The mods will remove you soon. What kind of little ***** is too afraid to name his equipment after making these huge claims. You can't even name your headunit, you only state it cost more than $1,700. Admit you lied and it can all be over. You're so predictable. Absolutely no technical assistance, just a constant disruption to otherwise good threads. 

I dare you to prove me wrong. Show me what kind of spl your. 6.5s put out at 40hz. Show me how they can move more air than my 9s. How many db is "insane". Just one thing, prove me wrong on anything. You lied and got called out and you've spent the past week afraid to name this great equipment you own and attempting to change the subject to avoid your obvious lies. There are other boards out there much more suited to the uneducated small dick people such as yourself.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

ramonesfan said:


> My doors are deadened inside & out, *not exactly sealed* but tightly rolled dynomat inside & out. The bottoming out is a bit of a strange sound, don't know about the back wave?


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> His doors are deadened. Instead of name calling, why don't you try to disagree with facts. You've contributed nothing. You can't prove me wrong in any sort of technical terms so you resort to name calling as you have every member who has come into contact with you in every thread. There's nothing but fluff, no substance in your posts, just some angry pissed at the world little dick ******* taking his bitterness out on anyone who will listen.
> 
> No 6.5" on the planet without the assistance of a port is going to do anything at 40hz. Do the math, you're not going to get even 60db. It's not going to overcome engine noise at idle. It's wasted power and unnecessary distortion. Do you mean to tell me your Kmart 6.5s will displace more air than my 9s? If so, list the model.
> 
> ...



Your limited experience shows. This usually happens when someone just can't believe something that actually exists. Maybe you should start testing equipment and then maybe, just maybe, 20 years from now you will have the experience I have. 

Just because I stated I can run my 6.5's at 40hz to full volume, this thread is all of the sudden about me and not the fact that you tell people to run their midbass at 125hz. Hilarious.

The weak, dumb, and insecure are the ones who get threatened by the educated.


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## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


>


can you just give it a rest? From time to time you show a glimmer of hope and then you turn into a douchebag again.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Kriszilla said:


> I have a set of the HSK-165's sitting on the shelf behind my desk. The HV165 driver definitely won't do anything under 80 in most cars with authority without *serious deadening* and EQ'ing. Even then, about mid-60's is all you're gonna' get.
> 
> Definitely play with steeper slopes, check your doors as was previously mentioned, and if that doesn't satisfy you, you'll need to try a different mid-bass. I'd hang onto the 3" and the tweeter though, they're solid drivers in that set.


Great info here from someone with direct experience with these drivers. 

There sure is a huge difference from crossing at mid 60's in contrast to the 125hz range these other two clowns are suggesting.

Fight with that Buick. Hands on experience against your unexperienced advice.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

ou812 said:


> can you just give it a rest? From time to time you show a glimmer of hope and then you turn into a douchebag again.


Why don't you state your opinion about the topic at hand? You come into threads and talk about the people making comments, yet you don't offer your own advice. Maybe you should stand on your own two feet instead of kissing ass.


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## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Why don't you state your opinion about the topic at hand? You come into threads and talk about the people making comments, yet you don't offer your own advice. Maybe you should stand on your own two feet instead of kissing ass.


I'm stating my opinion about you and how you have been conducting yourself. I don't think you're stupid.....I think you see this as some kind of game but it's getting old.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Just because I stated I can run my 6.5's at 40hz to full volume, this thread is all of the sudden about me and not the fact that you tell people to run their midbass at 125hz. Hilarious.


Physically damn near impossible. Even for my Anarchy's if I put them into a vented enclosure. 

I'd love to know the name of the drivers that you're using. Hell, I really would. Tell me the name of this magical speaker that can outperform even a Dyn MW182 or Morel SW9?


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Kriszilla said:


> Physically damn near impossible.


Don't state something like this without explaining. Please tell me why, so I can appreciate the fact that my drivers somehow defy physics.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Don't state something like this without explaining. Please tell me why, so I can appreciate the fact that my drivers somehow defy physics.


And pretty flat all the way to 20,000 hertz...Damn. What driver is that?


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

thomasluke said:


> And pretty flat all the way to 20,000 hertz...Damn. What driver is that?


That is an LMS graph on the full component set. Impedence compensation built into the crossover to extend low end roll off, rolls off naturally on the top end, and tweeter starts at 2,500.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> That is an LMS graph on the full component set. Impedence compensation built into the crossover to extend low end roll off, rolls off naturally on the top end, and tweeter starts at 2,500.


Ok...So What is it? Where can I buy It?


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

And what does L.M.S stand for?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

thomasluke said:


> And what does L.M.S stand for?


Same people that make leap5 speaker modeling.

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

minbari said:


> Same people that make leap5 speaker modeling.
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


Thanks.

I still wanna know what set that is though.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Don't state something like this without explaining. Please tell me why, so I can appreciate the fact that my drivers somehow defy physics.


Why the flat refusal to tell anyone what you run?
It's quite old really....apparently you get your kicks by annoying whole forums.

It sounds like you have enough knowledge to be a helpful member...unfortunately it's overridden by your desire to be an *******.
Sad...


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

thomasluke said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I still wanna know what set that is though.


He'll never tell you...that's his MO. I'd bet that's a random graph he found online that applies to nothing he actually owns.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

UNBROKEN said:


> He'll never tell you...that's his MO. I'd bet that's a random graph he found online that applies to nothing he actually owns.


My thoughts exactly. If he told us what comp set it was, we could all look up the specs. Wont happen

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Don't state something like this without explaining. Please tell me why, so I can appreciate the fact that my drivers somehow defy physics.


Really? You don't think that reverse image search exists?

Here's where you pulled that graph from:

Blues Car Audio BL65c Components


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

UNBROKEN said:


> He'll never tell you...that's his MO. I'd bet that's a random graph he found online that applies to nothing he actually owns.


This is hilarious. Somehow what I own (which is the set depicted in that graph), matters more to you than the fact that the driver actually exists even though your good buddies claimed there is no way it could. "It defies physics." Then you wonder why I won't state it.

It's a never ending go around with you few. I claim something and back it up, and then there is always something more you want just so others will forget what you stated in the beginning that was proven wrong.

The fact is..... crossing your midbass at 125hz when it's unnecessary is dumb.


----------



## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Kriszilla said:


> Really? You don't think that reverse image search exists?
> 
> Here's where you pulled that graph from:
> 
> Blues Car Audio BL65c Components


Clearly. I figured someone here was smart enough to search with google images. 

Now Kriszilla....do you want to repeat what you stated earlier? About how my drivers would have to defy physics. Let's hear it. That graph clearly proves you wrong and makes your coveted anarchy....yes....."even your anarchy's" look like a midrange driver.




Kriszilla said:


> Physically damn near impossible. Even for my Anarchy's if I put them into a vented enclosure.
> 
> I'd love to know the name of the drivers that you're using. Hell, I really would. Tell me the name of this magical speaker that can outperform even a Dyn MW182 or Morel SW9?


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Kriszilla said:


> Really? You don't think that reverse image search exists?
> 
> Here's where you pulled that graph from:
> 
> Blues Car Audio BL65c Components


Wow, what a fraud. I was almost willing to give the guy some props for owning a $300 software.

Nothing this guy could say will be believable from now on

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## jamiebosco (Dec 10, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> There's 3 issues in my opinion:
> - 1st - lack of options: the available slopes only suggest a higher Xover point. With the 300watts, even for headroom, it's asking for trouble with a low Xover point and a shallow slope
> - 2nd - the driver: the spec sheet shows 60Hz and having measured a few Hertz drivers, other than the Mille, they don't have that low of an FS
> - 3rd - the driver: yes, the driver again, it's only a 6.5" with 4mm of Xmax.
> ...


OP, reread the above post ^^^^ This is solid advice and I agree 100%.

The Hertz HSK's are not the mid-bass monsters like some other 6.5"-7" drivers are ,80hz @ 24dB is as about as low as I'd take them (at loud volumes), seeing you are limited to 12dB slopes,100-125hz @ 12dB should work out great. They do sound really nice in the midrange frequencies (imho)

Have a play with Time Alignment and Subwoofer Phase/Level/Crossover points and slopes to get the sub and mid-bass blending well and and it WILL sound like all the bass is up front.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

minbari said:


> Wow, what a fraud. I was almost willing to give the guy some props for owning a $300 software.
> 
> Nothing this guy could say will be believable from now on
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts


Now I am a fraud because I proved your buddies wrong again. Aren't you just another ass kisser.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Clearly. I figured someone here was smart enough to search with google images.
> 
> Now Kriszilla....do you want to repeat what you stated earlier? About how my drivers would have to defy physics. Let's hear it. That graph clearly proves you wrong and makes your coveted anarchy....yes....."even your anarchy's" look like a midrange driver.


Its marketing 

I have owned the BL65. It wont do that graph mounted in door, no matter what you say.

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Clearly. I figured someone here was smart enough to search with google images.
> 
> Now Kriszilla....do you want to repeat what you stated earlier? About how my drivers would have to defy physics. Let's hear it. That graph clearly proves you wrong and makes your coveted anarchy....yes....."even your anarchy's" look like a midrange driver.


I'll absolutely repeat it. It. Won't. Do. It. At. Full. Volume.

That chart was done mostly at reference level, which is a far cry from full volume. RTA that and show it and I'll take back my statement.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

minbari said:


> Its marketing
> 
> I have owned the BL65. It wont do that graph mounted in door, no matter what you say.
> 
> sent from my phone using digital farts



^^^^^That right there is what makes 90% of this site ********. Non-sense spoken because your ego is too big to admit you are wrong.

You are full of ****. I have been running them for three years and they have done that since day one.

Now that is a fake graph huh?

Coming from a guy running midbass that won't go below 70hz and cost 1/3 the price. Sure....you owned the set huh.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Kriszilla said:


> I'll absolutely repeat it. It. Won't. Do. It. At. Full. Volume.
> 
> That chart was done mostly at reference level, which is a far cry from full volume. RTA that and show it and I'll take back my statement.


Yes, they absolute will. Someone just realized his driver's are mediocre. Ahhh....isn't that too bad.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

ramonesfan said:


> My doors are deadened inside & out, not exactly sealed but tightly rolled dynomat inside & out.





Jagged Corn Flakes said:


>


I hate to break this to you, but most car audio component speakers are designed to be run free air. The entire Hertz line is designed for free air use. The shop did the right thing in deadening the doors and not sealing them.

Question for ramonesfan: Are you really running 300W+ RMS to 6.5" rated 150W RMS and 300W Peak? If so, I think you are bottoming them out legitimately. I'd pull back some wattage till they stop bottoming out and then adjust the rest of the speakers to that point. The beauty of throwing that much power out to speakers is that you can take it down from 12 to 11 on the knob that tops out at 10 ;-)


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Zippy said:


> I hate to break this to you, but most car audio speakers are designed to be run free air. The entire Hertz line is designed for free air use. The shop did the right thing in deadening the doors and not sealing them.
> 
> Question for ramonesfan: Are you really running 300W+ RMS to 6.5" rated 150W RMS and 300W Peak? If so, I think you are bottoming them out legitimately. I'd pull back some wattage till they stop bottoming out and then adjust the rest of the speakers to that point. The beauty of throwing that much power out to speakers is that you can take it down from 12 to 11 on the knob that tops out at 10 ;-)



Yep. That shop was so smart that they left holes in his doors because the Hertz are so ahead of the times that they can somehow work without the cancellation of a backwave.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Dude, you were doing so good in the other thread.......what happened here?


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

claydo said:


> Dude, you were doing so good in the other thread.......what happened here?


You know, Claydo. Go back and read. They called me out....I proved them wrong and now their story changes. Same old ********. You can provide flat out undeniable proof and there is always someone who can't take the fact that they were proven wrong.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> ^^^^^That right there is what makes 90% of this site ********. Non-sense spoken because your ego is too big to admit you are wrong.
> 
> You are full of ****. I have been running them for three years and they have done that since day one.
> 
> ...


Nobody said it's a fake graph....they're just saying it's not YOUR graph like you insinuated.
Anything is possible in a controlled lab....that doesn't mean it's gonna repeat in a car door.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Yes, they absolute will. Someone just realized his driver's are mediocre. Ahhh....isn't that too bad.


Listen, dude. You're not going to ruffle my feathers. I've got more than one dog in this game and it doesn't matter to *me* whether I can get the performance I'm looking for out of a $50 driver or a $500 driver. I have the cash in the bank, so you can drop the holier-than-thou act. 

I don't mind to scrimp a bit, and mis-match, and run a mutt of a system if it gets me to where I want to end up sonically. 

So now it comes down to performance. I'll put my system against yours for accurate reproduction any day. Period. I'm about 2 weeks out from completing my install and then if anyone DIYMA is local to me with the proper measuring gear, I'll let them RTA me as an unbiased source. 

You can't get much better than that. Or are you just going to stick to making B.S. excuses?


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> You know, Claydo. Go back and read. They called me out....I proved them wrong and now their story changes. Same old ********. You can provide flat out undeniable proof and there is always someone who can't take the fact that they were proven wrong.


All you've proven is that you can find a graph for a set of drivers you may or may not own and post it as if it came from your car.
Nothing more....


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Kriszilla said:


> Listen, dude. You're not going to ruffle my feathers. I've got more than one dog in this game and it doesn't matter to *me* whether I can get the performance I'm looking for out of a $50 driver or a $500 driver. I have the cash in the bank, so you can drop the holier-than-thou act.
> 
> I don't mind to scrimp a bit, and mis-match, and run a mutt of a system if it gets me to where I want to end up sonically.
> 
> ...



I don't care what you run, or anyone else for that matter. You asked for proof and you got it so don't turn the tables on me like I am the ******* that called you out. The driver exists and it performs just as I stated.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

UNBROKEN said:


> All you've proven is that you can find a graph for a set of drivers you may or may not own and post it as if it came from your car.
> Nothing more....


And all you can do is keep stating you don't believe something that you have absolutely no experience with, but I have owned and used for years. 

I think the person with the direct experience would know better.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> I don't care what you run, or anyone else for that matter. You asked for proof and you got it so don't turn the tables on me like I am the ******* that called you out. The driver exists and it performs just as I stated.


Yes, it does. And it does those numbers in a building test environment. That's a far cry from doing 40Hz at full-tilt in your car door.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> I don't care what you run, or anyone else for that matter. You asked for proof and you got it so don't turn the tables on me like I am the ******* that called you out. The driver exists and it performs just as I stated, just not in my car doors.


Fixed that for ya. You're welcome.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

UNBROKEN said:


> Fixed that for ya. You're welcome.


Jealousy is a ***** isn't it. Have I ever given you a demo? Didn't think so.

But that is what 90% of this forum is though isn't it? A bunch of people resembling yourself who speak about products that they have no experience with.

Par for the course at DIYMA.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Yep. That shop was so smart that they left holes in his doors because the Hertz are so ahead of the times that they can somehow work without the cancellation of a backwave.


Oh, I was not aware you physically inspected the sound deadening install the shop did on his car to get to the conclusion that they had not cancelled the backwave. The OP said they had been around for years and did high quality work. Any shop worth it's salt will not let what you are claiming out of the door.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Zippy said:


> Oh, I was not aware you physically inspected the sound deadening install the shop did on his car to get to the conclusion that they had not cancelled the backwave. The OP said they had been around for years and did high quality work. Any shop worth it's salt will not let what you are claiming out of the door.


Great shop. They also swapped his front and rear RCA's and he still can't figure out why his system sounds like **** so he has to take it back to them tomorrow.

Great shop. I urge you to shop there.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> This is hilarious. Somehow what I own (which is the set depicted in that graph), matters more to you than the fact that the driver actually exists even though your good buddies claimed there is no way it could. "It defies physics." Then you wonder why I won't state it.
> 
> It's a never ending go around with you few. I claim something and back it up, and then there is always something more you want just so others will forget what you stated in the beginning that was proven wrong.
> 
> The fact is..... crossing your midbass at 125hz when it's unnecessary is dumb.


If the midbass is bottoming you either reduce power or cross higher/steeper. 

Exposed as a fraud. You posted some websites graphs as your own, wow. You realize it's completely impossible to get any appreciable output with 5mm xmax on a 6.5"? You're not fooling anyone, if you were a little smarter you would realize how ridiculous your claims are. 125cm^2 of cone area with a 5mm xmax giving appreciable output at 40hz or even 50 or 60hz is comical. Keep it coming, I'm enjoying this. 

And since you're such a miserable ******* who made these claims earlier, even if you own this comp set and you paid full msrp you still have $800 to go before you reach the price of my tweeters as you claimed. Normally I don't care how much someone's system cost because it doesn't matter but you made the claims and you have talked down to others with less money in their systems so you have this coming. I know 3/4 of what you're running now. To make true your earlier claim, your HU had better cost more than $500. 

Any more lies? I've got a hunch you do not own a system. Seriously.


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Great shop. They also swapped his front and rear RCA's and he still can't figure out why his system sounds like **** so he has to take it back to them tomorrow.
> 
> Great shop. I urge you to shop there.


So let me get this straight. Are you saying you never make mistakes? Everyone makes mistakes. Unless you have physically inspected something for yourself, it's all speculation.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Jealousy is a ***** isn't it. Have I ever given you a demo? Didn't think so.
> 
> But that is what 90% of this forum is though isn't it? A bunch of people resembling yourself who speak about products that they have no experience with.
> 
> Par for the course at DIYMA.


Read my sig...you have nothing I'm jealous of. 
I did a cover shoot for the biggest truck magazine on the planet with the truck that stuff is installed in this past Friday. Jealous? That's laughable at best.

Edit...forgot I updated my sig today. The HU isn't installed yet.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> If the midbass is bottoming you either reduce power or cross higher/steeper.
> 
> Exposed as a fraud. You posted some websites graphs as your own, wow. You realize it's completely impossible to get any appreciable output with 5mm xmax on a 6.5"? You're not fooling anyone, if you were a little smarter you would realize how ridiculous your claims are. 125cm^2 of cone area with a 5mm xmax giving appreciable output at 40hz or even 50 or 60hz is comical. Keep it coming, I'm enjoying this.
> 
> ...


My midbass runs down to 40hz at full volume in the vehicle and does NOT bottom out. My subwoofer is unnecessary most of the time. I do run an overlap with my sub to 60hz, and that is also cut at 24db. Now that it is proven that it can play that low, you make the output argument.

Didn't you state that my 6.5" couldn't play even 60db at 40hz. Why don't you look at the LMS graph again numb nuts?

Don't you feel like a sorry piece of **** every time you come on here. You ask for proof, you get it, and then you make up something else to act like I owe you something.

Hell, I would be mad too if I found out my 9" midbass couldn't keep up, nor play as low, as a readily available 6.5" set. Not to mention, that same 6.5" that you claimed must sound like **** in the midrange is playing flat as day as spoken by the graph. And on top of all of that, straight up passive. Wanna talk some more ****?

You can throw as much money at your system as you want. It still falls short. After all your **** talking that things can't happen....they all seem to be backed up.

Good night. Don't cry too hard.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

UNBROKEN said:


> Read my sig...you have nothing I'm jealous of.
> I did a cover shoot for the biggest truck magazine on the planet with the truck that stuff is installed in this past Friday. Jealous? That's laughable at best.
> 
> Edit...forgot I updated my sig today. The HU isn't installed yet.


At least you didn't buy the Alpine. I give you admiration for that.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Ya know cornflake, at one point in time, i thought you might recover, but i feel your may have dug yer hole to deep this time.......


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> My midbass runs down to 40hz at full volume in the vehicle and does NOT bottom out. My subwoofer is unnecessary most of the time. I do run an overlap with my sub to 60hz, and that is also cut at 24db. Now that it is proven that it can play that low, you make the output argument.
> 
> Didn't you state that my 6.5" couldn't play even 60db at 40hz. Why don't you look at the LMS graph again numb nuts?
> 
> ...


I'll keep this simple, *****, one question at a time so maybe you'll get it. Tell me how a speaker with 125cm^2 with 5mm xmax will be in the same ballpark as one with 235cm^2 with the same xmax and over 1" of xmech. Tell me how yours with half the displacement can outperform mine at 40hz? How does a speaker that moves half the air have more output at 40hz? Have I made the question simple enough or would you like me to dumb it down even more? Answer this one and we'll move on to the next one.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> At least you didn't buy the Alpine. I give you admiration for that.


You realize his tweeters also cost more than your whole system and now that we know your equipment list other than the HU this statement can not be denied. You want to fess up to your earlier lie since we actually have proof now? You should admire all of us for taking the time to educate you.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

buick, this fella goes completely over board with the emotions when someone challenges his knowledge or equipment. surely he is questioning his statements about a 6.5 playing 40hz cleanly, to boldly claim that any 6.5 can compete with a 9 in reference to midbass output is just lunacy. let alone when said 9 is from arguably one of the finest speaker manufacturers in the world. ive watched him spiral down into insults and impossible claims on multiple threads.......but the latest thread (before this one) he was actually doing ok, skizer called him on the ******* thing and he calmed down. he was actually arguing his opinions respectfully, i even saw him apologize to a fella. i thought he was coming around, then i found this train wreck.......


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

seriously tho cornflake, some 6.5 drivers really dont like going so low. i once ran a set of highly regarded diamond 6's, overpowered, just like the op is running his, and they begged for mercy at anything less than 100hz @ 18 db. yes 80hz would bottom them at volume, high volume, but so are my listening habits, and it was better for me to leave the midbass to my subs, than to risk damage from the random pop of them bottoming on random tracks mixed agessively in that passband. yes they were in properly seald and treated doors, and nontheless they would bottom frequently.....this made tuning the bass upfront a bit of a challenge, mainly from the increased rattles of running a trunk mounted sub that high, but with creative tuning i did get satisfactory results.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

claydo said:


> buick, this fella goes completely over board with the emotions when someone challenges his knowledge or equipment. surely he is questioning his statements about a 6.5 playing 40hz cleanly, to boldly claim that any 6.5 can compete with a 9 in reference to midbass output is just lunacy. let alone when said 9 is from arguably one of the finest speaker manufacturers in the world. ive watched him spiral down into insults and impossible claims on multiple threads.......but the latest thread (before this one) he was actually doing ok, skizer called him on the ******* thing and he calmed down. he was actually arguing his opinions respectfully, i even saw him apologize to a fella. i thought he was coming around, then i found this train wreck.......


Where do you see me questioning my statement of my midbass playing to 40hz? They have been ran that way for close to 3 years. Not 3 days....3 YEARS!

Really Claydo? I don't want to have to call you out, but that seems to be what you people do around here.

Please quote the impossible claims I have made in ANY thread. You said it, not me, so it shouldn't be so hard to provide proof to back up your claim. I was also told it's impossible to own a 6.5" that could play cleanly down to 40hz as well....and ....well.....proof was provided. As much proof as anyone can provide on the internet. Truthfully, I don't know why I even waste my time because nothing is ever good enough.

How can a 6.5" have more output than a 9"? Well, we are talking at 40hz first of all. Second, his 9" has a slightly higher fs and also rolls off quicker than mine which is depicted by the graph associated with his driver. My driver is helped by impedance compensation, but it is what it is. Therefore, his driver may be capable of moving more air, but not in the range we are speaking. Actions speak louder than words. Anyone that knows SQ knows that ANY amount of bass up front should be played up front if it's available. There is no reason not to. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions state that his midbass fall apart below 60hz.

I am now going to leave this alone. The only reason Buick's midbass were brought up is because of him. He takes my facts as they are provided, gets butthurt, and then has to bring up his own system and how much money he spent on it. As I have stated numerous times, I was called out for running my midbass at 40hz and I provided the proof that my drivers actually do it. Now it's something else.

Oh, and by the way. Someone with direct experience commented in this thread about the exact Hertz midbass this thread is talking about and stated with proper installation these drivers can play down to the mid 60's. That should be enough for the OP to tackle his installation instead of raising his crossover points.



claydo said:


> seriously tho cornflake, some 6.5 drivers really dont like going so low.



Clearly, there are a ton of drivers that will not play decently low. I never told the guy to run his midbass to 40hz. Most drivers won't play that low. I was providing an example that with proper installation, 125hz is way too high to cross them. God knows why anyone would run a midbass that can't hang under 100hz, but to each their own. However, that isn't the case with the drivers being discussed (Hertz).


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

claydo said:


> buick, this fella goes completely over board with the emotions when someone challenges his knowledge or equipment. surely he is questioning his statements about a 6.5 playing 40hz cleanly, to boldly claim that any 6.5 can compete with a 9 in reference to midbass output is just lunacy. let alone when said 9 is from arguably one of the finest speaker manufacturers in the world. ive watched him spiral down into insults and impossible claims on multiple threads.......but the latest thread (before this one) he was actually doing ok, skizer called him on the ******* thing and he calmed down. he was actually arguing his opinions respectfully, i even saw him apologize to a fella. i thought he was coming around, then i found this train wreck.......


I'll have to search for that thread. I might have a heart attack if I see him apologizing to anyone lol. 

Most of us have had our differences but eventually we agree to disagree or see that we were wrong and learn something or have basic human respect for one another. This guy acts like some juiced out meat head with the aggressiveness and childish name calling. If he acts like this in person he's probably been popped in the face more than once but more than likely the internet provides a means to act like an ass without worrying about that pop in the face. 

The main point is you have a guy who is not only arrogant and childish but he is incapable and not interested in learning anything and to top it off he's been caught in several lies. 

I've gotten some grief for what I spent on my setup in the past so I hope no one takes my comments about my tweeters out of context, I'm just trying to show (after he was talking down to a couple members who did not have as much money invested as he did) that there are other with much more money invested and my statement was true that my tweeters would buy his whole system after learning what he's running. A little humility on his part would be nice but I don't know if that's something you can teach. 

I think this guy is the single most angry member on this board. That's not likely to change for more than a couple posts at a time.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

BuickGN said:


> *(after he was talking down to a couple members who did not have as much money invested as he did)*



While you are talking out of your ass, please provide some proof of the above statement. I told some guy he was running a forum boner head unit. It had nothing to do with money. 

Proof? Thanks.


Thanks.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

ok, ill give ya the "impossible claims" thing. i should have stated "bold claims". the midbass output thing is still true, the best 6.5 cant hold a candle in ib, or door, to a 9 in any form of midbass output. sorry thats just physics. i do not make a habit of calling people out, and for one, take offense, just like every other member here, at your constant attempts to lump us all together as "everyone here". buick runs some very expensive drivers, he probably worked hard to find that much disposable income to indulge in those drivers, is he poud of them, of course he is, i would be too. you seem quite proud of yours as well, nothing wrong with being proud of what yer running. this is a good thing, having pride usually means you are enjoying your setup, thats what we are all after. pride also leads to a bit of bragging, and in turn a lil sensitivity to crititcism of our beloved drivers. learn to take this in stride. some people run gear with limitations because its simply what they have, whether itll play low or not. youd be surprised at the people who put more emphasis in different areas than you, or me, for that matter. those diamonds i referred to above had this silky smooth midrange response off axis, blended superbly with the silk tweeter that came in the set. this sound kept them in my doors for a while, regardless of their weak midbass. this whole game is one of tradeoffs, and you will never find a product without limitations........at least i havent yet. about your speakers response curve.......well, ill leave that one alone, you dont appear ignorrant..........so in your heart, well.......you know.....


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Re: Cant decide. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by miniSQ 
Pardon? Wanna come over and chat about my system and my experiences with me? MIght be wise to do so before making comments like this.

1. My system is as passive as it could be, and it sounds great to me. I have been doing this for over 30 years and this is about as good as my car has ever sounded.

2. Yes i bought a audison Bit Ten...but i did not buy it to "go active" or to "slap a bandaid" on anything. i may not ever go active with it.

3. I bought it for the 31 band EQ, the ability to remove the factory EQ, and to learn something about T/A.


I stand corrected. My apologies. From what I was reading in your other threads, I thought you were tackling both. 

However, I stand by my statement. It just may not apply to minisq


here ya go buick....... hope you can diall 911 in your current state....lol


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Where do you see me questioning my statement of my midbass playing to 40hz? They have been ran that way for close to 3 years. Not 3 days....3 YEARS!
> 
> Really Claydo? I don't want to have to call you out, but that seems to be what you people do around here.
> 
> ...


Two things. 

My midbasses don't move more air than yours at 40hz? They move twice the air at 40hz. At 40hz output is solely determined by how much air it can move. You don't know the first thing about audio, this is elementary. 

They "fall apart below 60hz"? They play cleanly down to 30hz. However, I have a couple subwoofers and with that fact I choose to let the subwoofer cover the subwoofer frequencies. Make sense? 

Any speaker will play below Fs in case you thought otherwise. However, you will have less distortion and more pop to the midbass the farther you stay away from Fs. My system is not designed to push each speaker to its absolute limits; it's designed to work as a system with each component and setting complementing one another. 

You have 5mm of excursion to deal with. You would be best off staying 70hz and above. If you can play 40hz at full tilt, I would say they're not seeing more than 20w. Maybe "insane levels" is 80db to you lol. 

You have proved nothing. You showed they will play to 40 hz as any 6.5" will, hell, any tweeter will, but you dont know the spl because you've never measured in your car at ear level. You're going by a manufacturer spec sheet and it doesn't show the power level or how far the mic was from the speaker. It could have been 1/4 meter. 

So again, how can your 6.5s get louder than my 9s at 40hz when mine move double the air? How can one speaker be louder than another without moving more air? You're so full of **** and the only person that doesn't realize it is yourself.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Actually at full tilt my scope was reading about 170 wrms playing a 50hz tone. That is where I set my gains. Quite a bit more than 20 watts. Therefore, keep talking ****. Everything I state can be proven, while you talk about how much money you spend on being mediocre.

The fact that you few have never heard a 6.5 play in the 40's is a credit to your lack of experience with the proper driver. That isn't my fault. It's ok though. You could sit in my vehicle and be dumb founded at what you hear with no sub playing and you would still find a way to spin a negative comment out of it. It's in your nature.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Actually at full tilt my scope was reading about 170 wrms playing a 50hz tone. That is where I set my gains. Quite a bit more than 20 watts. Therefore, keep talking ****. Everything I state can be proven, while you talk about how much money you spend on being mediocre.
> 
> The fact that you few have never heard a 6.5 play in the 40's is a credit to your lack of experience with the proper driver. That isn't my fault. It's ok though. You could sit in my vehicle and be dumb founded at what you hear with no sub playing and you would still find a way to spin a negative comment out of it. It's in your nature.


I have played my own 6.5s down to 40hz. As I said a tweeter will play down to 40nz. The question is how loud. 

You have 125cm^2 with 5mm xmax. What you're claiming is 100% impossible without the help of a port. You're a liar, nothing more to it. Plug the numbers into any online calculator. 

Show me some proof. I've seen no RTA from inside your car. I've seen no snapshots of your scope. You've been caught in at least 2 lies so far, you expect anyone to believe they're seeing 170w peak much less rms when your amp is not capable of that kind of output. You have low standards as to what qualifies as proof. I once metered my midbass at 140db at 40hz. My proof is the fact that I saw it with my eyes. That's proof, right?


----------



## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

And you won't see ****. Why would I waste my time doing anything for an uneducated douche like yourself? Do you go through life thinking everyone owes you something?



BuickGN said:


> You've been caught in at least 2 lies so far, you expect anyone to believe they're seeing 170w peak much less rms when your amp is not capable of that kind of output. You have low standards as to what qualifies as proof.


What lies might those be? Proof? You seem to have a problem backing up any of that garbage you spew.

Actually my amps are rated at 220 wrms at 4 ohms bridged which is how they are ran. I have them set around 170 at full tilt with a 50hz tone. One on left, one on right.

You seem to ride my jock strap so much and know every little aspect of my system don't you?

Once again, par for the course. The idiot Buick has no clue once again.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> And you won't see ****. Why would I waste my time doing anything for an uneducated douche like yourself? Do you go through life thinking everyone owes you something?
> 
> 
> Actually my amps are rated at 220 wrms at 4 ohms bridged which is how they are ran. I have them set around 170 at full tilt with a 50hz tone. One on left, one on right.
> ...


Lol. Of course we won't see anything because it never happened. So predictable.

Back to the question, how can your speakers with half the displacement get louder at 40hz than mine with twice the displacement? You're not getting out of this one *****. You're caught in yet another lie.


----------



## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

Oh. So now you want to glaze over more garbage you spewed because you were wrong? My amps can't peak 170? Really? Speaking on products and installations you have no experience with is your speciality isn't it? Anyone who believes a word that comes from your mouth has to be an idiot.

I already explained how. Your "great" 9 inchers are so far rolled off by 40hz they are hardly playing.

DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE HOW EGOTISTICAL THIS DOUCHE BUICK IS? 

Let's not forget that he claimed that a 6.5 could not play down to 40hz and now when he has been proven wrong, it's all about his 9 inchers against my 6.5.

Buick has insecurity issues. He must have been picked on a lot as a kid.


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

:snacks:


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## BaasTurbo (Aug 27, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE HOW EGOTISTICAL THIS DOUCHE BUICK IS?


No.

But we can see that you don't understand basic physics nor differentiate between a reference level corrected lab graph (read: in a car environment virtually inaudibly played pink noise and possibly EQ'd for commercial sake) and real world installation at full tilt.

There's claims, either manufacturer's or user's, and there's measurable reality in its infinite variation. Neither of which seem applicable to your pubescent rants.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Oh. So now you want to glaze over more garbage you spewed because you were wrong? My amps can't peak 170? Really? Speaking on products and installations you have no experience with is your speciality isn't it? Anyone who believes a word that comes from your mouth has to be an idiot.
> 
> I already explained how. Your "great" 9 inchers are so far rolled off by 40hz they are hardly playing.
> 
> ...


FR has nothing to do with it and my car has cabin gain at 40hz anyway. Regardless of the FR, your 6.5s can't move enough air for any appreciable output at 40hz. They have an xmax of 5mm. They're not ported so it comes down to displacement and you have none. It wouldn't matter if they were truly flat to 40, they would still have little output before damage occurs. 

You can say my drivers roll off early but in car I have no eq except above 200hz. They probably need to be cut at 63hz but I like a little extra there. That's the difference in a factory advertisement and real world.

Let's not lie some more, I stated even tweeters will reproduce 40hz, just not at an appreciable spl, just like your 6.5s.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

I cross my sub/midbass at 50hz. 24 db on the mid and 36db on the sub. Combined with the applied eq the response is as follows:

40hz - sub 94db / mid 64db
50hz - sub 92 db / mid 78db
60hz - sub 81db / mid 81db
80hz - sub 70db / mid 82 db
100hz - sub 58db / mid 88db

I'm not crossing low to hear 50hz from the midbass. 50hz is basically from the sub. By crossing low I'm trying to limit how high the sub plays, while managing the transition from sub to midbass. I could cross higher say 100hz and then cut 50-150hz a bunch on the sub, but crossing low does the same thing. 

No 6.5" driver is going to play 40hz with any authority, manufacturers graphs notwithstanding.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

BaasTurbo said:


> No.
> 
> But we can see that you don't understand basic physics nor differentiate between a reference level corrected lab graph (read: in a car environment virtually inaudibly played pink noise and possibly EQ'd for commercial sake) and real world installation at full tilt.
> 
> There's claims, either manufacturer's or user's, and there's measurable reality in its infinite variation. Neither of which seem applicable to your pubescent rants.


ASSumptions. Must be Buick's step sister.


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

sqnut said:


> I cross my sub/midbass at 50hz. 24 db on the mid and 36db on the sub. Combined with the applied eq the response is as follows:
> 
> 40hz - sub 94db / mid 64db
> 50hz - sub 92 db / mid 78db
> ...


Thank you. As I stated, I cross by sub at 60hz 24db.

This was first a conversation where a few stated a 6.5 couldn't even play that low, and then turned into a comparison of my 6.5 and some insecure idiots 9 inchers once he was proven wrong numerous times. 

It's all so clear. Buick tries to tell people they are wrong, he is shown up, and then he resorts to talking about material possessions and how much he spent on them. When he is proven wrong he glazes over his previous comments and then talks about something else; normally himself. Then the irrational idiots kiss his ass.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I'll give ya one thing...you're persistent. 
Maybe if you say the same thing enough times people will start to believe it?

FYI...you're the only one here that agrees with you.
You talk in circles more than anyone I've ever seen...it's at least mildly entertaining.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Thank you. As I stated, I cross by sub at 60hz 24db.
> 
> This was first a conversation where a few stated a 6.5 couldn't even play that low, and then turned into a comparison of my 6.5 and some insecure idiots 9 inchers once he was proven wrong numerous times.
> 
> It's all so clear. Buick tries to tell people they are wrong, he is shown up, and then he resorts to talking about material possessions and how much he spent on them. When he is proven wrong he glazes over his previous comments and then talks about something else; normally himself. Then the irrational idiots kiss his ass.


You misunderstood. I am not supporting your claims in this thread.

1. 6.5's can't play 40hz at +/- 2db when compared to say 80hz up. 

2. My example illustrates for an overall spl of 90db (loud to me), 40hz is down -24db. ALL 6.5's will behave similarly, yours included. Crossing low and playing it loud does not mean 40hz from the mid is loud as well. Why is that so difficult to understand?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Thank you. As I stated, I cross by sub at 60hz 24db.
> 
> This was first a conversation where a few stated a 6.5 couldn't even play that low, and then turned into a comparison of my 6.5 and some insecure idiots 9 inchers once he was proven wrong numerous times.
> 
> It's all so clear. Buick tries to tell people they are wrong, he is shown up, and then he resorts to talking about material possessions and how much he spent on them. When he is proven wrong he glazes over his previous comments and then talks about something else; normally himself. Then the irrational idiots kiss his ass.


Your assumptions are hilarious. Most people around here don't like me but you're so incredibly arrogant we all agree on one thing..... you're an idiot.

I'll say it for at least the 5th time in this thread. Even a tweeter can play 40hz. A 6.5" can play 40hz. It's the level at which it will play it that is the problem. Your 6.5s don't defy the laws of physics and they're not ported so you have the same results as anyone else that runs 6.5s. Take two different 6.5s with the same cone area and same excursion and play a 40hz tone, they will both have the same output. What exactly is it that makes you think your 6.5s will play any lower/louder than another 6.5 with 5mm xmax? 

What proof have you shown, the manufacturer's spec sheet? That's not even close to proof. Show some measurements in your car and then we'll talk. Let the entertainment continue.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

WOW!!!!! A lot has happened while I was away  

Ok here we go: 


subwoofery said:


> Below 80Hz is all about moving air but I'm sure you know that





Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Roll your eyes at someone else. I do know that.
> 
> For the record, I have my midbass crossed at 40hz 24db and can play insane levels.


Contradicting yourself a bit, aren't you? All this in the same post :laugh: 

Ok. Obviously, your 6.5" 5mm Xmax driver does survive with a 40Hz Xover point while playing @ full tilt like you stated - done
Now, please explain to me how your 6.5" can play louder than a 9" 5mm Xmax driver. Please don't say that your driver can defy physics, you're not fooling anyone on this forum. 



Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> This is hilarious. Somehow what I own (which is the set depicted in that graph), matters more to you than the fact that the driver actually exists even though your good buddies claimed there is no way it could. "It defies physics." Then you wonder why I won't state it.


Now, the graph you've provided shows "a" driver that can play down to 40Hz in a controlled environment however we know nothing about the testing done - I seem to remember Blues Car Audio testing and showing off their drivers in ported mini monitors. 
Ohh, by the way, showing a graph does mean you own the driver  

I'd like to have an answer this time coz with EVERY post I've made with simple question by your standard, all you've done is dodge them and left my questions unanswered - no you don't own me anything but I'm sure other members would like to see yourself play for a change... 

Kelvin


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

sqnut said:


> You misunderstood. I am not supporting your claims in this thread.
> 
> 1. 6.5's can't play 40hz at +/- 2db when compared to say 80hz up.
> 
> 2. My example illustrates for an overall spl of 90db (loud to me), 40hz is down -24db. ALL 6.5's will behave similarly, yours included. Crossing low and playing it loud does not mean 40hz from the mid is loud as well. Why is that so difficult to understand?


Yep agreed  

Kelvin


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

sqnut said:


> You misunderstood. I am not supporting your claims in this thread.
> 
> 1. 6.5's can't play 40hz at +/- 2db when compared to say 80hz up.
> 
> 2. My example illustrates for an overall spl of 90db (loud to me), 40hz is down -24db. ALL 6.5's will behave similarly, yours included. Crossing low and playing it loud does not mean 40hz from the mid is loud as well. Why is that so difficult to understand?


This website is about as credible as a 2 year old child. First, all you ever heard from the main clique was all amps sound the same, and now it's all 6.5 sound the same. Two people just stated it. 

I think my experience with my drivers trumps your lack of experience with my drivers.

We have one guy claiming he can't run his midbass below 100hz but his drivers sound just like mine that can sound like subs at 40hz. Yep, all 6.5" sound the same.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Jimmy! ah knew it wars you, jimmy! come a little closer ah caynt see ya!


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

6.5's that sound like subs at 40hz..........Jesus dude, that's sig worthy!

I had previously stated you didn't appear ignorant, I would now like to retract that statement......


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

claydo said:


> 6.5's that sound like subs at 40hz..........Jesus dude, that's sig worthy!
> 
> I had previously stated you didn't appear ignorant, I would now like to retract that statement......


They have as much force as any 6.5 I have heard in that range. I didn't state they have the presence of a 12" did I?

This is what you douchers are good at....taking someone's words out of context and running with it. 

Are you sad Claydo that you can't get 80hz from your midbass, and I can play most music accurately without a sub?


Here comes that douche Buick - "I can run my 9 inchers...blah blah blah......" - while he thinks to himself - "I wish my 9 inchers didn't fall apart below 60hz."


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Call names if you must *****, but I'm tired of being nice to your dumbass. Are you referring to the diamonds mentioned earlier? Did you poor reading comprehension skills not allow you to see the past tense in the description of that setup. Although in all fairness, I would put that setup against yours, anyday. Present system wouldn't be a fair comparison, for I'm afraid you'd ride your ***** ass home with your sorry excuse for a **** pittifully wilted.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Damn troll, now you got me fired up and calling childish names........you should be ashamed, as I usually refrain from that type of behavior!


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

claydo said:


> Call names if you must *****, but I'm tired of being nice to your dumbass. Are you referring to the diamonds mentioned earlier? Did you poor reading comprehension skills not allow you to see the past tense in the description of that setup. Although in all fairness, I would put that setup against yours, anyday. Present system wouldn't be a fair comparison, for I'm afraid you'd ride you ***** ass home with your sorry excuse for a **** pittifully wilted.


You were being nice? So coming into threads calling me names and joining in on the douche-fest, just being a little more subtle, means you were being nice? I think not.

Here we going with the dick swinging again.

Now you want to put your system against mine? This is hilarious. We could judge it in any aspect and you would fail. 

The 6.5" that can dig the deepest - I win

The smoothest midrange - I win

The most focused and highly placed center - I win

The deepest part of your stage - I win

You looking like the idiot you are as you step out of my PASSIVE vehicle dumb founded - I WIN


All amps sound the same, all 6.5" sound the same, you know what drivers sound like without hearing them, everything spewed on this site is the end all be all of car audio.......what are you no life douchers going to claim next?


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

1. I don't run a 6.5 nice assumption.
2. I doubt it.
3. Once again, I doubt it.
4. This one, maybe........depth is my weakness.
5. Output........not even close......


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Oh and for reference, here's my front stage......










Think your the only one who has experimented with driver angles and locations still?........sheesh!

Oh and what you can't see are the 8's in the doors on 250 Watts....


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## Regus (Feb 1, 2011)

Thought I'd try and redeem this thread, if at all possible...

Firstly, I am not related or affiliated to anyone on this forum. I have never met anyone from this forum, let alone heard their systems in person (kind of hard to do when most of you are in the US and I'm in the UK). I also like to think I have an open mind, but I am a scientist at heart and it is my profession too, so I am well aware of what constitutes proof.

I think we're all agreed that there is no set crossover point between subs and midbass drivers, only a range somewhere either side of 80Hz, for the simple reason that not all subs and midbasses are the same. Ignoring localisation/imaging issues for a moment, this allows you to obtain the best blend of the two ranges, by setting complimentary crossover points for the LPF on the sub(s) and the HPF/BPF on the midbass, be it overlapped, underlapped or identical, with steepness curves chosen to suit the nature of the drivers. That said, there are limits to what you can achieve with any driver of any kind, and it may be necessary to use less than ideal crossover points to make up for the characteristics of the equipment in use or obtain the desired response in subjective terms. Nothing in this should come as a surprise to the majority of people on this forum, but there are people who are new to the car audio scene who may not appreciate this, let alone some of the more esoteric aspects of SQ.

This brings us back to the original topic. It was suggested way back at the start of the thread that the Hertz midbass drivers the OP has could get to the mid-60's at best but that 80Hz was more realistic. The OP was expecting more based on the published specs but as ever, real world performance seldom matches ideal world performance. I'm sure many of us have found this out the hard way and chalked it up to experience. Moreover, as has been said so many times before, so much is dependent on the install that the same drivers may vary considerably between vehicles. Clearly there were issues with this (RCAs reversed for instance) but hopefully they will be sorted by now - I'm hoping ramonesfan will come back and let us know how he is getting on.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Aaand I hear furniture breaking at cornpop's house. lol


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## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

UNBROKEN said:


> Aaand I hear furniture breaking at cornpop's house. lol


Actually, that was my bed slamming the wall. Your mother likes it rough.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Yes Regus, you are correct. Thanks for the calming voice of reason. This thread has suffered a major derailment, and for my part in it, I apologize to the op..........and, I'm curious about the outcome of his midbass dilemma......


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## Regus (Feb 1, 2011)

I think I just wasted my time. :disappointed:

If I was ramonesfan I don't think I'd be inclined to post here any more.

FWIW Shakespeare pretty much had this whole thread nailed centuries ago...

Kenneth Branagh ~ Othello ~ Give me the ocular proof - YouTube


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

No Regus, didn't waste your time........I'm bowing out of the pissing match......and I hope that ramonesfan will update.....


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## Regus (Feb 1, 2011)

That's good to hear claydo - let's hope it's not too late to help ramonesfan out if he does come back for more advice.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Word.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> Actually, that was my bed slamming the wall. Your mother likes it rough.


My mother died last November after a 13 year long battle with cancer. Try again, *****.


----------



## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

UNBROKEN said:


> My mother died last November after a 13 year long battle with cancer. Try again, *****.


She said she was your mother. Who knows. I don't know who else would claim you besides her.


----------



## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> She said she was your mother. Who knows. I don't know who else would claim you besides her.


You are a worthless piece of ****.


----------



## Jagged Corn Flakes (Sep 10, 2013)

ou812 said:


> You are a worthless piece of ****.


And you are the garbage this forum has always thrived on. 

Those who get sucked into the ******** of the unexperienced.

Those who get sucked into the forum boners.

Those who have very little real life experience with a WIDE range of equipment.

Those who provide no useful true to life information, but go around to various threads they cannot offer valid information to, and speak non-sense about those within.

Now you want me to have compassion for some dumb ass that does nothing but talk **** and harass. Someone who thinks that money spent means he knows all. He is an arrogant douche just like Buick. If that is the type of person his mother raised, then I am sure she was so proud. 

It's never a topic conversation with you; it's a personal conversation. Keep reading.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> She said she was your mother. Who knows. I don't know who else would claim you besides her.


You're the tough guy that never leaves the computer to run his **** tube in real life....so your words mean nothing to me. If you find yourself on the west coast and want to try popping off like that in person just let me know....you have an open invitation to my house.
Until then...you're less than nothing and you know it.

I'm sure your next reply will be telling me how you're a 6'7" 250lb ex cage fighter and you'll rip my face off.....whatever.
I'm in Hermosa Beach and you're welcome to stop by any day of the week.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

ou812 said:


> You are a worthless piece of ****.


He's well aware of that I'm sure. It appears things will be back to normal around here...corn flakes has left the building.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Good bye, now maybe this guy can get the advise he needs without all the school yard drama.

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

Jagged Corn Flakes said:


> She said she was your mother. Who knows. I don't know who else would claim you besides her.


This is where he should have backed off and showed that he is a human being. Apparently he wasn't a human being..... Unbroken...I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my father after a very long illness 18 yrs ago. It still hurts.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

claydo said:


> No Regus, didn't waste your time........I'm bowing out of the pissing match......and I hope that ramonesfan will update.....


Sorry I was away for a day or so....did I miss anything 

Stopped by the shop today, found a key tuning problem. When they put the splitters on the RCA's they had the L-R plugs mixed, for ex. the balance at 100% L would still have R playing. These Alpine PDX amps need RCA splitters to bridge and their instructions are not very clear (there are even threads on the topic). So the tuning on songs with a lot of separation was pretty bad while some songs sounded better, but could tell something just wasn't right - that was it. 

The tech took care of it quickly. He's a good tech/installer, simple mistake that he troubleshot & fixed in about 2 minutes. Just f'd up a little and fixed it with a great attitude. I do most of my own work, deadened my own doors which is why I know they're not completely sealed. Had I done the 3-way HSK install it would never have come out as nice and maybe made the same mistake on the RCA's. So I'm fine with the tech, no need to rip him a new one.

Not sure if this RCA issue had anything to do with the mids bottoming out, but after reading the posts it seems I might be expecting too much bass from a 6.5" crossed at 80 Hz, on 300+W, at a high listening level. Fair enough, need to either drop the volume down a bit or have the sub help out in that range at higher volumes. Bumped the front crossover up from 80 to 100Hz at 12 db, still have some tweaking to do, but no bottoming and overall it sounds great, little EQ'ing over the next few weeks but its already very nice. On 80 Hz (and RCA's still messed up), I sloped the lower Hz end of the EQ downward to get rid of the bottoming, don't need to do that now.

DIYMA rocks, appreciate the passion & knowledge you guys bring, learning a lot from this thread, wish I could buy everyone here a beer!!


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ramonesfan said:


> Sorry I was away for a day or so....did I miss anything
> 
> Stopped by the shop today, found a key tuning problem. When they put the splitters on the RCA's they had the L-R plugs mixed, for ex. the balance at 100% L would still have R playing. These Alpine PDX amps need RCA splitters to bridge and their instructions are not very clear (there are even threads on the topic). So the tuning on songs with a lot of separation was pretty bad while some songs sounded better, but could tell something just wasn't right - that was it.
> 
> ...


I accept paypal. 


sent from my phone using digital farts


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Glad that's over with.........I couldn't believe the comments in relation to the mans mother......I mean come on..........good to see ya back ramonesfan, glad the installer found some simple mistakes, now you can get on to some serious tuning. Regardless of what dillweed posted, if you're a volume junky like me most 6.5's just wont cut the midbass mustard. Of course as you've discovered, this can be worked around, and still sound great. You just have to get creative with your crossover points, and then tune to compensate.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

The beer buy assumes everyone in the thread is in the same room and I'll start the conversation with:

"...so I have my mids crossed at 63 Hz on a 6 db slope and they sound fantastic, especially when i crank it up in the 110 db range, rolls off smooth like melted sub butter"

If you can make that happen, I'll open up the PayPal!


----------



## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Just don't compare it to the be all end all passive blue's, and you'll be ok!


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ramonesfan said:


> The beer buy assumes everyone in the thread is in the same room and I'll start the conversation with:
> 
> "...so I have my mids crossed at 63 Hz on a 6 db slope and they sound fantastic, especially when i crank it up in the 110 db range, rolls off smooth like melted sub butter"
> 
> If you can make that happen, I'll open up the PayPal!




Lol, sounds like deal to me

sent from my phone using digital farts


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## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

ramonesfan said:


> The beer buy assumes everyone in the thread is in the same room and I'll start the conversation with:
> 
> "...so I have my mids crossed at 63 Hz on a 6 db slope and they sound fantastic, especially when i crank it up in the 110 db range, rolls off smooth like melted sub butter"
> 
> If you can make that happen, I'll open up the PayPal!


I think I might be close enough that we could have a beer.


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

claydo said:


> Glad that's over with.........I couldn't believe the comments in relation to the mans mother......I mean come on..........good to see ya back ramonesfan, glad the installer found some simple mistakes, now you can get on to some serious tuning. Regardless of what dillweed posted, if you're a volume junky like me most 6.5's just wont cut the midbass mustard. Of course as you've discovered, this can be worked around, and still sound great. You just have to get creative with your crossover points, and then tune to compensate.


Thanks man, much appreciated. Not sure if I'm a volume junkie or just don't hear that well anymore, nothing too crazy though, all clean & clear, no 4-blocka's. 

Now I need to build a custom sealed box for that new sub in the basement (for almost a year now)....existing single 10" sealed sub cannot keep up with the new stuff.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Yup, that's me too, can't be heard coming, but in the car its pretty loud and definately clear......whats yer sub plans?


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Good to hear you got it worked out.  Congrats.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> You're the tough guy that never leaves the computer to run his **** tube in real life....so your words mean nothing to me. If you find yourself on the west coast and want to try popping off like that in person just let me know....you have an open invitation to my house.
> Until then...you're less than nothing and you know it.
> 
> I'm sure your next reply will be telling me how you're a 6'7" 250lb ex cage fighter and you'll rip my face off.....whatever.
> I'm in Hermosa Beach and you're welcome to stop by any day of the week.


You know, I'm really sorry anyone would say something like that to you. There is no line that guy would not cross. I think if he ever came to the West Coast it would have been a race as to who got ahold of him first lol. 

It's good to have that douche gone. Good riddance, you won't be missed. I have that song from the wizard of oz playing in my head, you know, the wicked witch is dead song lol. I'm sure he's still reading and foaming at the mouth right about now. Thank you to the mods. I hope my acting arrogant did not offend anyone besides the one it was meant to offend. I could care less about the cost of my system or anyone else's, but it got under his skin so it was worthwhile. 


Glad the OP got it mostly sorted out. Has phase been mentioned yet?


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

I can't believe he had nothing to say on my pic.........I guess he was scared I would request a pic of his.....lol
The whole mother exchange was way out of line.......I thought surely he would back down and rightfully apologize............he got what he deserved....well, not really, but as close as we can hope online....


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

No worries. I was hoping he'd take the bait because I actually described myself. LOL
Those who were at the meet this weekend will verify I'm not lying....unlike someone else we all know and love.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

So what her saying is your a 6'7 250 lb excage fighter capable of ripping a mans face off?


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

This is valid info for future arguments! I will keep that in mind, lol


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> No worries. I was hoping he'd take the bait because I actually described myself. LOL
> Those who were at the meet this weekend will verify I'm not lying....unlike someone else we all know and love.


I'm liking your style more and more lol. If you don't mind me asking, where did you train at? I'm guessing it was some form of MMA from your cage comment? Anyway, I really hope I get to hear your system, especially those Be tweeters before you go home. There was no way I could make the last meet, had to paint the house but maybe an hour or two one of these weekends?


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

I actually fought back before any of this new stuff....way back when it was just called Tough Man in the south. You just stepped in and got down...sometimes you won, sometimes you got your ass kicked...it hurt the next day either way. I'm much older now but I still have a trick or 2 up my sleeve. LOL

As far as a listen...I'm taking the interior out this week...new HU and going back to the 6to8 next week then Big Red is gonna tune it up for me. I still lack severely on that front but I hope to learn a thing or 2 here shortly.
After that I'll make every SoCal and CenCal meet I can...I had a blast this past weekend.


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

^^^^^
I not a small guy... I lifted competitively for years. But when we met up to exchange equipment I was kinda a little worried ha. You do give off an intimidating vibe.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

People say that all the time. I don't know why. lol
What ever happened with those amps?


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

Sold em to go smaller. Soooo many things have changed since. And now that I have a new baby girl at home the audio is on hold.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Damn... Late again for the party. 

Ohh well, I guess it's a good thing... Naaah, I KNOW it's a good thing 

Too bad I never got an answer for anything - and sorry Unbroken for your loss, hope she had a good life  

Kelvin


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## ramonesfan (Jan 8, 2012)

claydo said:


> Yup, that's me too, can't be heard coming, but in the car its pretty loud and definately clear......whats yer sub plans?



Sub plans - picked up one of those BA SPG-555 racetrack subs when Boston Acoustics bailed out of car audip last yr. I haul too much stuff in my SUV for a big sub box so I have a sealed box w/10" squeezed in between the rear bucket seats, downfiring. That SPG should fit between the seats if/when I build the box with perfect dimensions, will be tight but it should fit. 

I'm only running a 500W Kicker IX amp for the sub stage, really want to bump that up to either the Kicker IX 1000 or Alpine M12. My intention is to keep everything efficient for my electrical system, hence the digi amps. 

Hoping the sealed SPG will give me the SQ and the SP to round out the system.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Hmmm, yes I remember that sub, is it designed to be equivalent to a 12? I hope it'll give ya the increase in volume you're looking for.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Ok, I went back and Google's that beast myself. Looks like a beefy unit, with many positive reviews. I read it sounds great in the recommended 1cube box, on as little as 500 Watts, but really comes into its own on 800 plus. Can't wait to hear your opinions on the sound, good luck!


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