# A System Over 1000 Watts Will Kill Your Stock Car



## hyundave

I want to see if this is true. I drive a 2008 Hyundai Elantra. Stock battery, Stock amp, haven't done the big 3. I'm running a 4 gauge wire into my trunk.

I had been using a 1000 watt hifonics monoblock to power a 1,200 rms SPL 15" sub. Sadly that sub died (not the best quality sub...). While I was getting it repaired/replaced, I did a full audio upgrade of my speakers. 

I bought a power acoustik 4 chan amp. Puts out 150 watts rms x 4 channels. So my new speakers are playing really nicely.

I'm just afraid of killing my electrical system. I should add that I am 18. About to go to college and barely have any money... So any solutions you guys come up with need to be affordable. Or else I can't do em :mean:.

So, with that said. If I hook my sub back up, is it going to totally destroy my car? I should add I have a 2 Farad cap, but that's not doing much. I know most of you hate caps anyway. One person told me I should put in a 20 Farad cap. Not sure if that would do anything. Please help.


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## minbari

if the battery is staying charged, dont worry about it.

as for the cap..........2F is overkill and most likely doing nothing for the system. 20F is not going to magically do more, lol. caps only store energy, your charging system (alternator) still has to recharge it.


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## ChrisB

I'd do an extra quality AGM battery over a capacitor any day of the week. Whether you will kill your electrical or not is relatively dependent on the quality of your battery or batteries and your electrical system's ability to recharge them!

When I was 18, I was running 3 inefficient punch 150s where each one had a 40 amp fuse due to me blowing the smaller ones recommended by the manufacturer. My car was a 1981 Chevy Malibu Classic with a stock 60 amp alternator. I purchased an extra deep cycle marine battery for the trunk and would either rotate it out with my grandfather's boat batters OR toss it on a trickle charger once a week. Prior to the extra battery, I could completely black out the headlights and the dash lights on MCADE's Bass Mechanic!


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## hyundave

minbari said:


> if the battery is staying charged, dont worry about it.


I'm just not trying to get stranded in bumblefuck because I was jammin too hard...

So far I've only sucked in 1,000 watts with the sub playing. Then with only the speakers playing it's been roughly 600 watts. I don't know what will happen when I've got both going. I just don't really want a dead car to be a result.


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## analogrocker

Keep in mind that just because an amp is rated to put out 1000 watts RMS, that doesn't mean it's constantly putting that wattage out. Music is dynamic. The subs are not seeing 1000 watts RMS at all times unless you are listening to nothing but 0dB test tones at full tilt.


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## hyundave

Makes sense. I'm still worried my electrical system won't be able to handle that...

Here's another question. What's more beneficial? Installing a second battery, or upgrading your alternator?


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## minbari

hyundave said:


> Makes sense. I'm still worried my electrical system won't be able to handle that...
> 
> *Here's another question. What's more beneficial? Installing a second battery, or upgrading your alternator?*


a second battery will only give you more time with the engine off. battery = storage. the alternator still has to charge it. in fact the more batteries you have the harder it is on your alternator. it is another load. HO alt is the ONLY answer if you are running a deficit on current.


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## ChaunB3400

I have ran stock alts and batts on about 1500rms, anything past that I would start upgrading


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## ChaunB3400

minbari said:


> a second battery will only give you more time with the engine off. battery = storage. the alternator still has to charge it. in fact the more batteries you have the harder it is on your alternator. it is another load. HO alt is the ONLY answer if you are running a deficit on current.


agreed


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## hyundave

ChaunB3400 said:


> I have ran stock alts and batts on about 1500rms, anything past that I would start upgrading


My alt is only a 90 Amp.... Not sure what you were using. Think I'll still be good?

And minbari... What company do you recommend for a HO alt? I really don't have too much money to drop on this... Where would I get it installed?


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## minbari

DC power, Mechman are the best ones. you can get cheaper ones, but they dont perform.


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## trumpet

hyundave said:


> My alt is only a 90 Amp.... Not sure what you were using. Think I'll still be good?
> 
> And minbari... What company do you recommend for a HO alt? I really don't have too much money to drop on this... Where would I get it installed?


On my little Saturn I'm running a bit over 1,500W RMS. I upgraded the battery ground cables to 4 gauge, but the alternator is stock and the battery is the same size and type as the original. Unless I'm really pushing it I don't get any headlight dimming. My alternator is no bigger than yours. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, with music playing you shouldn't come anywhere close to the maximum current your amplifier(s) can pull.


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## hyundave

Alright sounds good. That puts my mind a little more at ease. I was checking it out, I may just do a big 3 upgrade just for the hell of it... Although, can I just upgrade the ground wire and the wire to the alternator? Accessing the wire to the engine bay looks like a pain in the ass


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## dobslob

When looking at alternators don't skip over Ohio Generator. I have installed a ton of them and they always work great.


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## mires

hyundave said:


> I may just do a big 3 upgrade just for the hell of it...


If you're short on cash, I wouldn't do the big 3 "just for the hell of it". Just wait until you're running your sub amp again and see if you get any dimming or other negative effects. Chances are, you won't. I'm sure both of those amps are pretty overrated anyways.


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## minbari

mires said:


> If you're short on cash, I wouldn't do the big 3 "just for the hell of it". Just wait until you're running your sub amp again and see if you get any dimming or other negative effects. Chances are, you won't. I'm sure both of those amps are pretty overrated anyways.


Exactly this. Don't fix it if it ain't broke

Sent from my phone using digital farts


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## Catman

I have ran 1000w (real watts) system on a 1997 Miata for MANY years with no problems. No dimming of lights either. All of this on the original AGM battery and alternator. FWIW ...a cap is a band aid for a cheap amp. If it does anything you should have bought a better amp.

>^..^<


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## hyundave

It's interesting you guys are saying it'll be totally fine. When would you recommend upgrading your power supply then? With what equipment and power ratings? Just future reference if I ever want to go even more powerful.


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## SkizeR

big 3, thicker wire, upgrade the battery. you will be fine.


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## Catman

SkizeR said:


> big 3, thicker wire, upgrade the battery. you will be fine.



I didn't even do that with my Miata.

>^..^<


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## minbari

hyundave said:


> It's interesting you guys are saying it'll be totally fine. When would you recommend upgrading your power supply then? With what equipment and power ratings? Just future reference if I ever want to go even more powerful.


When the car battery doesn't stay charged on its own anymore. Get a HO alt.

Sent from my phone using digital farts


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## hyundave

Well you guys made me feel pretty comfortable with it. Put the sub in. It's pounding now. Only issue is after it playing for 30 minutes at pretty loud it all cut out for about 5 seconds. After that i turned it down some. But it was banging for a good thirty minutes so I can't complain. Also, barely any dimming occurring which is good


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## scampo77

pfft i have been a mechanic for a long time. if you want to do something go to your local alternator guy and ask him for a voltage regulator for your car and if you look on youtube or ask the guy, figure out how to change it. or go buy a used scrapped one and keep it in your trunk "just in case". i would be surprised if you alternator is in fact 90 amp, im betting its 60-70 and i still dont think you are close to reaching the end of its capacity.with this loading. DONT START RUNNING HO ALTERNATORS!!!! not on that car the pulleys on the front of that engine are not designed to handle that extra loading. neither is the belt. 

here is a super low tech way to check alt output before you spend anything. with the car running and high beams on, go to the back of a walmart parking lot and put your hand on the alternator check the temperature. from there, load up your best music and rock out!!! till the amp gets hot or till your head hurts. if the alternator is super hot you know you are reaching the limits of the rectifiers. i use a amp clamp or a laser temp gun, but trust me, this will be a super accurate test. 

there is a "tipping point" on alternators if you push past this tipping point the rectifiers get hot and cant flow. then the regulator says "suck it i dont care, PUSH!!!!" output voltage drops and the regulator keeps increasing demand till something explodes. you dont need to rerach 90 amp for this effect to happen. it is very obvious. even when this does happens its not that big of a deal, most current spikes are for a short time and then the alt can cool down. failure from this is far far more common with static draws like fog lights or hydralic pumps not car amps that have all kinds of quiet spots and breaks. think about how much your fuel pump or head lights fluctuate compared to your music? and dont forget, if your running down the highway your alt cooling fan is spinning faster and cooling better

in my opinion i would run the ground through from the amp to the battery and verify the ground from your engine goes to the battery too. dc electrolysis wrecks havoc on those little unibody cars destroying the oddest of things usually heater cores, but also fuel pumps airbag control moduels or anything else that is grounded to your floor pan. 

and i think if you took those 2 caps out, sold them on ebay, and took your girlfriend out for supper with the proceeds it would be a better use of your money.


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## Freakin_Audio

I'll just say that when I installed all my audio into my car. I went through and did all the grounds like any high school student would. About 2 weeks of that and I had so much dimming from my lights going down the road that people would pull out of my way thinking I was a cop. I was pulled over from it, at that point I decided to re-think all my grounding points, ran a main ground from the battery to the trunk for the amp. Stereo was re-grounded to a different spot, totally forgot where though. 
I went from a lot of dimming to about 20% of what I had. I did the big three and also switched to a Red Top. About 2 years latter my car will only dim if I have my stereo on full power, subs turned up, my fog lights on, and my headlights on High. Grounds can ruin a systems performance xD. Same system hooked up into a Geo killed it.


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## hyundave

So what are you saying I need to do to improve my grounds? Run it all the way back to my battery?

And scampo thank you for that post... I'm not about to increase my audio and power demands again... at least in this car. But for learning purposes I still want to ask you - if I can't upgrade the amp and a new battery wouldn't do much for me, what CAN I do to increase my power?


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## scampo77

here is a nifty graph i made for you, please keep the laughter to a minimum i understnd i am fully aware that is a complex AC wave form with a big red (not to scale) red line across it. it is just to graphics to explain a problem. 

if you look at the blue bar that is your speaker moving back and forth making noise, sometimes it is working a lot and sometimes not so much, now if you look at the red line that is your battery voltage, every now and again, the draw from your amp exceeds available current. when this happens the the entire voltage in your car drops, and things like your headlights dim. everything that is above that red line is in the range of what your 1000w amp is rated for. but as you can see, 95% of the music falls under this range. it has been my experience that the voice coils in the speakers cook before your battery or alternator dies. 

here is the part no one seems to understand. AFTER this happens your alternator says "WTF was that?? giver beans and increase alternator output" the alternator quickly realizes that the battery voltage is fine and returns to normal operation. read this next part carefully... no alternator in the history of automotive technology (to my knowledge) can effectivly fluctuate in real time along with voltage spikes that occur in music, like the one in the graph. not even if you have 5 alternators or a 500 amp alternator or a purple or chrome alternator. 

i made you a 2nd graph to show you that these 2 things are equal in every way except time. think of an alternator as a slow moving guy capable of lifting a lot for a long period of time. where as your alternator is only capable of doing high bursts for very short periods.

if you look at the red line in the graph there is a high spike after the amplifiers draw then over time it smooths out.

a second battery is a way to go because theis will increase your reserve for the extra demand. instead of it dimming your headlights it will drain the second battery. the problem with your car is that you dont need a very big battery to start your car. so you probably dont have much for reserve in your battery cause it just isnt needed. dont go and buy some retarded red or yellow top spiral gel cell battery for a biplane. these are hype in my opinion and although look neat at a show or when used upside down they dont offer much in addition to a normal battery except are a bit smaller for their ouptput. if you are on a budget you will be better off with 2 cheapies then one expensive one. look for a battery recycler in your area. he will be able to better fill you in. i pay around 50$ for a new/recycled battery. spiral gel cells gor for $200 and up. 

1.) for a upgrade try a larger or 2nd battery
2.) ask yourself if you really need more power from your charging system


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## Zero Gauge

scampo77 said:


> here is a nifty graph i made for you, please keep the laughter to a minimum i understnd i am fully aware that is a complex AC wave form with a big red (not to scale) red line across it. it is just to graphics to explain a problem.
> 
> if you look at the blue bar that is your speaker moving back and forth making noise, sometimes it is working a lot and sometimes not so much, now if you look at the red line that is your battery voltage, every now and again, the draw from your amp exceeds available current. when this happens the the entire voltage in your car drops, and things like your headlights dim. everything that is above that red line is in the range of what your 1000w amp is rated for. but as you can see, 95% of the music falls under this range. it has been my experience that the voice coils in the speakers cook before your battery or alternator dies.
> 
> here is the part no one seems to understand. AFTER this happens your alternator says "WTF was that?? giver beans and increase alternator output" the alternator quickly realizes that the battery voltage is fine and returns to normal operation. read this next part carefully... no alternator in the history of automotive technology (to my knowledge) can effectivly fluctuate in real time along with voltage spikes that occur in music, like the one in the graph. not even if you have 5 alternators or a 500 amp alternator or a purple or chrome alternator.
> 
> i made you a 2nd graph to show you that these 2 things are equal in every way except time. think of an alternator as a slow moving guy capable of lifting a lot for a long period of time. where as your alternator is only capable of doing high bursts for very short periods.
> 
> if you look at the red line in the graph there is a high spike after the amplifiers draw then over time it smooths out.
> 
> a second battery is a way to go because theis will increase your reserve for the extra demand. instead of it dimming your headlights it will drain the second battery. the problem with your car is that you dont need a very big battery to start your car. so you probably dont have much for reserve in your battery cause it just isnt needed. dont go and buy some retarded red or yellow top spiral gel cell battery for a biplane. these are hype in my opinion and although look neat at a show or when used upside down they dont offer much in addition to a normal battery except are a bit smaller for their ouptput. if you are on a budget you will be better off with 2 cheapies then one expensive one. look for a battery recycler in your area. he will be able to better fill you in. i pay around 50$ for a new/recycled battery. spiral gel cells gor for $200 and up.
> 
> 1.) for a upgrade try a larger or 2nd battery
> 2.) ask yourself if you really need more power from your charging system


That was great. Thx for the education. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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