# 2000 Honda Accord Coupe DIY Install Bay



## cvjoint

The car:










Let's get down to business:

Front stage
LCY 108 true ribbon 20,000hz - 4,000hz (40watts on tap) on dash
The faceplate has been taken off in order for the passenger airbag to able to deploy. This was the obvious choice for a supertweeter driver as it effortlessly reproduces those frequencies with the air and sparkle only a ribbon can give. Location wise, it lifts the stage up rather nicely (but not completely - a lower xover point recommended) sitting on the dash and windshield reflections are minimal. Compared to the Lpg drivers I used it is less prone to reflections, it is more detailed and alive but suffers from blend in issues. No matter how much eq. I put into it, the distinctive ribbon sound is hard to blend in with my other drivers. Even with these shortcomings I prefer it over the LPG 25nfa (my fav. dome for the job) 










BG Neo8 PDR planar design - not true ribbon 4,000hz-1,000hz (75 watts on tap) in kicks
This driver radiates from both sides. In order to cross lower than 2,000hz I was recommended to enclose the driver. I used gasketing tape and 1/4 mdf to cover the back while still allowing some space to breathe. Looking back I think a thin layer of ensolite would have been awesome inside. Some of the lower frequencies on these sound a little odd, in fact this speaker has a very odd sound to it, but integrated in a system I found it to reproduce those critical upper midrange frequencies the best. Cones usually need some eq. to get this high and tweeters naturally struggle with this frequency band. The location in kicks was optimal for depth cues, not so much for stage hight. 


















Seas Excel W18EX 1000hz - 125hz (150watts on tap) in door

Seas's bad boy midrange. Most important factor for a driver reproducing lower midrange is to have the right tonal quality imo. The magnesium cone has been the most natural, transparent, detailed, not fatiguing cone I've ever used. It does require a rather narrow band to get the most out of it. Early cone breakup led to the use of the already mentioned BG Neo8 element. I particularly like the midbass quality of this driver but leaves a lot to be desired output wise. The linear travel is rather short for xovering anywhere lower than 80hz and retaining output and requires rather heavy eq. boosting. This is a different driver than the E version that has a higher qts and will not need low end eq. work to flatten. I chose the door location mostly to retain my dead pedal. The depth is OK but over the years I have grown rather tired of trying to combat resonances in the door cavity. It is fairly close to the Neo 8 and sounds focused.










Peerless XLS 8 125hz - 63hz (300watts on tap) in door
Easily the best 8 inch midbass driver. It is very linear, accurate and sensitive. While filtered rather low at 125hz I can still locate the driver as being close only due to its massive air moving abilities. It's also rather nice to have a midbass driver that can be crossed as low as 20hz while working of the sub stage. I would not use the driver for duty over 200hz, it sounds rather muffled and out of its range.


















Id Max 12inch (three drivers) 63hz - 15hz (500watts on tap/driver) IB
Why? Because IB rulz! I used sealed box after sealed box until I eventually bit the bullet the and went all out IB. First of all due to the low support arch of this car the largest diameter sub that can be installed is 14 inches so I could not do a 15 up sub sealed or IB. Naturally I wanted to fit as much sub surface area as possible, it places less stress on woofer suspension and keeps it withing operating linear range without sacrificing output. This is the most subs I can fit. If you look carefully these guys are withing 1/4 inch of each other and the car chassis. I could not put them in line due to width mounting issues so I had to mount the middle higher than the other two to gain an inch or so. 
Compared to sealed:
Output is similar 63hz and lower. Low end is much improved and box ringin' is out forever! I managed to fit 3 subs instead of 1 in the same space and increased trunk volume available for other things, including mounting two more amplifiers right under them. Power handling has gone down though...imo the subs never see more than 400watts before reaching mechanical peak. In sealed I'd say 800watts max ...and that's mechanical and thermal. In sealed alignment I felt the suspension tighten after a certain level of output, which made it feel a little bit to uptight for my taste; perfect design for IB.
These subs truly have everything...low end, accuracy and plenty of linear output. My only other option would have been two 13w7s IB which I contemplated on a lot.


























Mitochondria
5 Polk Momo 2 channel amps and 3 4 channel (3000watts+ of A/B power)
I chose these amps. because of their built in xover that goes up to 5500hz 24 db slopes, underrated output, reliability, and purity of sound. These amps have been tested by several 3rd party companies to do over 90watts/ch at 4 ohm and 160/ch at 2 ohm. The protection circuitry is a much desired benefit as it attenuates output prior to clipping and shuts off during many installation problems. Ohh, and there are bang for the buck.










Processing is provided by the H701 in conjunction with the w200
Optical connection and filtering before analog conversion = pure sex! Best processing I've used period. I love the w200's ability to read almost anything on a disc, ease of use and reliability. I never had cooling or cd skipping issues...half of the headunit's worth imo.










Electrical upgrades
The center piece is the Irragi HO putting out over 180amps once rolling. Idle performance is similar to stock imo, somewhere around 50amps at 600rpm. It handles high revs daily and easily recharges my two Kinetiks. With the engine off my batteries hold voltage inbetween 12.7-13.7. With enough draw I can get them down to 11.5V but nowhere near shutoff point of 11V. With the engine on and idleing 11.7V is the lowest. While rolling it's almost impossible to bring the voltage under 12V. Regular listening 99% of the time the voltage is at 13.8V with the engine running and it's stable. Sensitive drivers and electrical upgrades go a long way.


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## Kahooli

Wow. nice setup. I like it alot.


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## ArcL100

I can't get over that whole one-piece fiberglass thing - eek. I like your rims though 

Have you tried underlapping at all?

-aaron


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## pontiacbird

what made you pick that bright blue???

otherwise, those doors look absolutely amazing.....is the seas in its own enclosure, or is it sharing?

are you considering implementing the ribbons into the kicks?

awesome, just awesome


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## cvjoint

Thanks guys!

I do feel the same about the blue fiberglass. I picked that blue color because it was the best match that I could find at Home Depot in case I'd need to touch up later. I have a preference for exposed drivers-it's a shame to invest so much in an install and degrade it with grilles. I am thinking of covering it up next install with some leather or at least vinyl. It's also quite bad as far as reflections go. The drivers are not separated behind the door panel although that was in the plan originally. 

Never tried underlapping...never rta'd. In theory it just doesn't seem to be to great, although I do implement it for the rear stage. It's a better alternative compared to stressing a tweeter too low but should create dips no?

I just saw a guy with a VW Golf with the same rims...bastard.

Ribbons will go in kicks next


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## Megalomaniac

tits my man tits! :claphands:

I def need to get a coldair intake on my accord to do this: is a single 2400 out of the question?










also is there any problems with the frontal waves on the 2 subs that are partially behind the panel? wouldnt that space influence some sound differently like an enclosure reflexing(i hope thats correct term)?










also i didnt realise the coupe has split back seats. min fold down completely as one and has an armrest with a "window" to the trunk


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## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> tits my man tits! :claphands:
> 
> I def need to get a coldair intake on my accord to do this: is a single 2400 out of the question?
> 
> 
> 
> also is there any problems with the frontal waves on the 2 subs that are partially behind the panel? wouldnt that space influence some sound differently like an enclosure reflexing(i hope thats correct term)?
> 
> 
> 
> also i didnt realise the coupe has split back seats. min fold down completely as one and has an armrest with a "window" to the trunk


I would deff. recommend a cold air intake. The stock design allows sand to easily get trapped in the bottom "U" causing engine asphyxiation? I spend over $2k at the stupid Honda dealer to troubleshoot the problem and eventually took out the stock intake one day on my own and discovered the problem. You get an easy ~8hp too! The thing with the 2400 is that it's too long, something like 13 inches if I remember correctly. The space you have to work with after the CAI is rather square. If I were to do it again I'd probably use 3-4 batcaps. Do some research you'll love what you find.

The only issue with the back seats up is that you loose some spl...3db If I were to guess. Your system response will also roll off earlier. AT 63hz and down I don't notice this much. You are a very luck man to have a skypass.


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## rcurley55

while I've never liked your approach - those 3 maxes look SICK!


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## cvjoint

Thank you sir! Keep tuned for the next change this winter. If the horns win over the Neo8s you might see a 3-way ensue... 

BTW I love your sig. M-powered machines are awe inspiring. I was thinking of getting a used 2002 M3 or M5 after I get out of college. M just makes sense


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## rcurley55

cvjoint said:


> Thank you sir! Keep tuned for the next change this winter. If the horns win over the Neo8s you might see a 3-way ensue...
> 
> BTW I love your sig. M-powered machines are awe inspiring. I was thinking of getting a used 2002 M3 or M5 after I get out of college. M just makes sense


My friend has an E39 M5, I'd trade my car for his in a heartbeat. The M5 is much more incognito if you will - the M3 needs to be leaned on to be fast, it's more of a go kart.

Either way, you can go wrong


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## cvjoint

rcurley55 said:


> My friend has an E39 M5, I'd trade my car for his in a heartbeat. The M5 is much more incognito if you will - the M3 needs to be leaned on to be fast, it's more of a go kart.
> 
> Either way, you can go wrong


Don't say that! If you need to lean on yours, you would have to get out and PUSH in mine  

The way I see it the M5 has a major disadvantage in that it's not a coupe, although I must say that is one sweet 4-door...the best if I may. The engine is sweet and it's still used in the z8 correct? However, my heart will always be with the straight six engine...

Ever considered boost?


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## rcurley55

cvjoint said:


> Don't say that! If you need to lean on yours, you would have to get out and PUSH in mine
> 
> The way I see it the M5 has a major disadvantage in that it's not a coupe, although I must say that is one sweet 4-door...the best if I may. The engine is sweet and it's still used in the z8 correct? However, my heart will always be with the straight six engine...
> 
> Ever considered boost?


not to take this too far off topic, but....

It depends on what you consider fast - the M3 is a car that just needs to be driven - if you drive it slow, it isn't happy, it shifts, handles, everything better when pushed a little hard. That said, it still does well in the lower rpm range - but it revs to 8k...

The M5 engine does live in the Z8 - my old boss has one that does over 550hp - flying down the autobahn with the top down on that puppy was FUN 

I wouldn't ever boost my car - I don't need that much power and I don't want a tempermental car. By the time you boost the car, you are into it for well over 15k to do it properly. At that price point, I'd prefer to just sell it and get into something faster.

All those amps and speakers isn't goin gto help your 0-60 - that's part of the reason I wanted a lightweight system


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## cvjoint

There is no off topic  

Sounds like you live among a lot of M-crazies. I betcha the question there is not what you drive, but rather what digit adorns your M. 

Sounds like you need the new M3 in your garage. From the reviews it is a little less face whitening and a little more drivable day to day. I was never a fan of the new 3-series look but the M sure makes the best out of it.

The reason I mentioned turbos is that your powerplant is perfect for boost...easy to install and very reliable. Even $15k down the road it's hard to beat it...but you are right it would be very moody at this point. As a slow Honda owner that sounds like the dream to me but you seem to be at a different stage in you car ownership cycle.

I totally understand the need for lightweight goodies, if not for the 0-60 which you can improve in all sorts of ways then for the actual handling and personality of the car witch will be forever lost. I'm hoping efficient light and small packaged amps will be severely improved before I get my rocket!


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## kimokalihi

> You get an easy ~8hp too!


Do you have dyno test results for this 8hp? I refuse to believe that.


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## Megalomaniac

cvjoint said:


> I would deff. recommend a cold air intake. The stock design allows sand to easily get trapped in the bottom "U" causing engine asphyxiation? I spend over $2k at the stupid Honda dealer to troubleshoot the problem and eventually took out the stock intake one day on my own and discovered the problem. You get an easy ~8hp too! The thing with the 2400 is that it's too long, something like 13 inches if I remember correctly. The space you have to work with after the CAI is rather square. If I were to do it again I'd probably use 3-4 batcaps. Do some research you'll love what you find.
> 
> The only issue with the back seats up is that you loose some spl...3db If I were to guess. Your system response will also roll off earlier. AT 63hz and down I don't notice this much. You are a very luck man to have a skypass.



a cold air intake sounds more and more appealing now. But you have a v6 correct? do you know if this problem is also with vtech, 2.3l inline 4? 

Also why exactly would you rather have batcaps? I read that there is too much lag time from charging and discharging compared to getting the current straight from an "ordinary" battery. And Is a battcap a better AC filter compared to an external cap?

The skypass can be your friend, i remember long before I had bought the Zapco, I had a cheap crunch amp. It would always go into protect from the heat and the only way it wouldnt go into protect is if that pass was open.  also relieves pressure from trunk.

Also with the planers you are using, seems like they HAVE to be on-axis to get a good response. I have plans to use a 3" mid(hertz hl70) and glass them into the pillars with the tweeters. I decided to use a cone mid instead of a dome or a ribbon because the cone mid can play lower(i may start them at 150hz or 250hz on up) so i am hoping it will bring up my stage significantly. Kick panels were an option at one point just so i can get natural crosspaths and not have to mess with T/A as much an ruin it for passenger, but i figured i would rather have the passenger listen to bad sq on there side(if they can even tell for that matter ) then for them to kick the kicks 

Why did you use Polk Audio for your choice of amps? Did you just get a really good deal on them and bought them an enjoyed them?


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## reker13

Superb Job! Would love to hear it. Any comments on installing the baffle? How thick is it? Does it flex? Rattles? Sealing it hard? I'm looking at buying an accord and going w/ couple of 12's IB.

Again, good work and thanks for sharing.


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## cvjoint

kimokalihi said:


> Do you have dyno test results for this 8hp? I refuse to believe that.












at the wheel...


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## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> a cold air intake sounds more and more appealing now. But you have a v6 correct? do you know if this problem is also with vtech, 2.3l inline 4?
> 
> Also why exactly would you rather have batcaps? I read that there is too much lag time from charging and discharging compared to getting the current straight from an "ordinary" battery. And Is a battcap a better AC filter compared to an external cap?
> 
> The skypass can be your friend, i remember long before I had bought the Zapco, I had a cheap crunch amp. It would always go into protect from the heat and the only way it wouldnt go into protect is if that pass was open.  also relieves pressure from trunk.
> 
> Also with the planers you are using, seems like they HAVE to be on-axis to get a good response. I have plans to use a 3" mid(hertz hl70) and glass them into the pillars with the tweeters. I decided to use a cone mid instead of a dome or a ribbon because the cone mid can play lower(i may start them at 150hz or 250hz on up) so i am hoping it will bring up my stage significantly. Kick panels were an option at one point just so i can get natural crosspaths and not have to mess with T/A as much an ruin it for passenger, but i figured i would rather have the passenger listen to bad sq on there side(if they can even tell for that matter ) then for them to kick the kicks
> 
> Why did you use Polk Audio for your choice of amps? Did you just get a really good deal on them and bought them an enjoyed them?


It's a f23A1 engine with a 5 speed tranny (4cyl) Check out your intake pipe before the filter and tell me that's not stupid.

Battcaps should have a lower ESR in theory charging and discharging faster from what I gather.

The planars do have to be on axis to get good imaging but keep in mind that a narrow dispersion might be just what the car environment needs. In the Neo8 case the limited vertical response keeps the dash and floor reflections to a minimum. If set right these will image fairly well. I stay away from small cones as they are very inefficient and tiny sounding imo. If the output is enough for you and you value stage height a lot then sounds like the setup for you. My friend used the Hertz 3 inch mid in his Seat in Europe and changed it in favor of the TG9 - a better midrange from any point of view.

I use the Polk Momo amps because over the years I tried to replace them with 'better' amps. half a dozen times and got worse results.


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## cvjoint

reker13 said:


> Superb Job! Would love to hear it. Any comments on installing the baffle? How thick is it? Does it flex? Rattles? Sealing it hard? I'm looking at buying an accord and going w/ couple of 12's IB.
> 
> Again, good work and thanks for sharing.


The baffle is composed of two 3/4 mdf boards. It is mounted using metal l-pads into the car support pillars on three sides. The bottom part looked like the gas tank so I didn't drill and foamed it instead. Matched with the front stage the rattles are inaudible, put in bass mechanik and watch the whole car flex and rattle. Past a point you get the moonroof jumping up and down and outside panels vibrating and there's nothing to do.

I did stumble over an interesting observation with my IB setup in the Accord. The sides of the car have large openings toward the trunk that if go unfilled you may just transform your trunk into a ported box. I overlooked this part for the better part of 6 months and the low end was incredible but a bit exaggerated.


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## Whiterabbit

you suck. Elegant solution to my 2 battery problem, except you have WAY more space under the hood than I do for batteries. Thus, you suck.

I will be honest, I dont like the excecution of any of your install. But I dont want to harp on it or go into detail.

Because I love most of the design. The ideas of everything (such as: copper buss bars for the batteries, overlap on the subwoofer baffle to the frame of the car, choice of tweeter, amp organization (electrically)), there is a huge level of crativity and I'm-doing-something-almost-noone-else-is-doing. And I value that more than many factors of design.

Congratz. I like a bunch of what you are doing. Keep up the good work (on the work that is good!)


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## rcurley55

cvjoint said:


> There is no off topic
> 
> Sounds like you live among a lot of M-crazies. I betcha the question there is not what you drive, but rather what digit adorns your M.


There are no shortage of M cars here



> Sounds like you need the new M3 in your garage. From the reviews it is a little less face whitening and a little more drivable day to day. I was never a fan of the new 3-series look but the M sure makes the best out of it.


as it sits right now, I have no desire for the new M, it just doesn't turn me on that much - we'll see what it looks like in person. I'll probably be moving toward an suv next - my mom just got the new X5 - really nice car.



> The reason I mentioned turbos is that your powerplant is perfect for boost...easy to install and very reliable. Even $15k down the road it's hard to beat it...but you are right it would be very moody at this point. As a slow Honda owner that sounds like the dream to me but you seem to be at a different stage in you car ownership cycle.


yeah, totally different stage - I'm creeping up on 30, and priorities change from having a real door slammer to well, other things. If I could, I would trade my red M3 in for a more subtle color in a heartbeat. My car is too flashy for me - but I love the way it looks, at this point I just don't like the attention it tends to get (and the negative connotation).



> I totally understand the need for lightweight goodies, if not for the 0-60 which you can improve in all sorts of ways then for the actual handling and personality of the car witch will be forever lost. I'm hoping efficient light and small packaged amps will be severely improved before I get my rocket!


True - long live the PDX - tiny package and a ton of powah


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## cvjoint

Whiterabbit said:


> you suck. Elegant solution to my 2 battery problem, except you have WAY more space under the hood than I do for batteries. Thus, you suck.
> 
> I will be honest, I dont like the excecution of any of your install. But I dont want to harp on it or go into detail.
> 
> Because I love most of the design. The ideas of everything (such as: copper buss bars for the batteries, overlap on the subwoofer baffle to the frame of the car, choice of tweeter, amp organization (electrically)), there is a huge level of crativity and I'm-doing-something-almost-noone-else-is-doing. And I value that more than many factors of design.
> 
> Congratz. I like a bunch of what you are doing. Keep up the good work (on the work that is good!)


The battery upgrade started from a simple "How can I get the most juice in here?" Measured it and bought accordingly...it could have been one battery or three but this is what ended up using all the space available. 

I appreciate the kind words. One of the main goals was to do something different, I mean this is diy. I still hate myself for not having the balls to try out more rare speakers or IB 13W7s. But you know how it is...this hobby never lets go of you until ...well...never really. 

Wanna know a secret? My doors are actually butchered as we speak. Aside from answering a bunch of PMs more efficiently I posted this so you guys can critique. I am no engineer and a lot of this stuff doesn't seem wrong until I try it. Then there is the issue of making the right trade-offs for your taste witch makes it even more complicated. Do rip it apart if you can, I need to learn from this and do better during the winter redesign sessions  Please


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## cvjoint

rcurley55 said:


> as it sits right now, I have no desire for the new M, it just doesn't turn me on that much - we'll see what it looks like in person. I'll probably be moving toward an suv next - my mom just got the new X5 - really nice car.
> 
> yeah, totally different stage - I'm creeping up on 30, and priorities change from having a real door slammer to well, other things. If I could, I would trade my red M3 in for a more subtle color in a heartbeat. My car is too flashy for me - but I love the way it looks, at this point I just don't like the attention it tends to get (and the negative connotation).


The X5 is not really a nice car...it's an SUV. Think what difference that is, murmur suv in your mind several times before you go out and change your driving experience completely. Every car enthusiast I know regretted going SUV and some turned around and bought more crazy kidney shattering rides. Can I recommend an Audi s8? All the space, audio platform, comfort, sportyness one can ask for.

I don't see what negative cannotation you would get from driving your machine unless you are referring to the ease with witch you acquire speed tickets and I would correlate that to getting a red sports car


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## rcurley55

cvjoint said:


> The X5 is not really a nice car...it's an SUV. Think what difference that is, murmur suv in your mind several times before you go out and change your driving experience completely. Every car enthusiast I know regretted going SUV and some turned around and bought more crazy kidney shattering rides. Can I recommend an Audi s8? All the space, audio platform, comfort, sportyness one can ask for.
> 
> I don't see what negative cannotation you would get from driving your machine unless you are referring to the ease with witch you acquire speed tickets and I would correlate that to getting a red sports car


actually, it's an SAV  but that's splitting hairs.

The S8, while a great looking car is WAAAAYYYYYYYY to big for my tastes.

When you drive a loud, red, M3, that's lowered, etc - you get a lot of negative stigma from girls and guys a like. I never bought my car to show off, I bought it because I like the way it looks and drives. Unfortunately many people assume that I got it for the former reason.

One of the only things that will keep me from selling it is that I can't get more performance and luxury for the dollar anywhere without really breaking the bank. The next car, sadly, will be a downgrade


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## Whiterabbit

cvjoint said:


> Wanna know a secret? My doors are actually butchered as we speak.


Im glad to hear it, I didnt like two things about the door:

non-routered rings make for a wavy finish.
it was not sanded flat, was wavy all over the place.

I'd never see a car finished like that. two hours with some 80 or even 60 grit paper would have done it.

I want to experiment with a technique I think will work phenominally. A method to repair doorpanels like this that have already been cut and fabbed with jigsaw cut rings. The idea is to take a perfect ring jig and use carpet tape to hold it over the existing ring. Quick buzz with the patternmaker bit and the mistake is corrected.


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## quality_sound

rcurley55 said:


> The next car, sadly, will be a downgrade


Then run it into the ground, swap drivetrains and do it again.


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## Megalomaniac

cvjoint said:


> It's a f23A1 engine with a 5 speed tranny (4cyl) Check out your intake pipe before the filter and tell me that's not stupid.
> 
> Battcaps should have a lower ESR in theory charging and discharging faster from what I gather.
> 
> The planars do have to be on axis to get good imaging but keep in mind that a narrow dispersion might be just what the car environment needs. In the Neo8 case the limited vertical response keeps the dash and floor reflections to a minimum. If set right these will image fairly well. I stay away from small cones as they are very inefficient and tiny sounding imo. If the output is enough for you and you value stage height a lot then sounds like the setup for you. My friend used the Hertz 3 inch mid in his Seat in Europe and changed it in favor of the TG9 - a better midrange from any point of view.
> 
> I use the Polk Momo amps because over the years I tried to replace them with 'better' amps. half a dozen times and got worse results.


I heard great things from the TG9, i thought about ordering a pair from madisound since they are ridiculously cheap imo. I read that they outperform the L3s from hybrid audio.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pr...=1742&osCsid=5ce1d275dce962a9df01b3172fd1dff2

did you fiberglass the doors because of all the power you are sending to the mids? to keep rigid as possible?


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## DonutHands

im sure your car sounds good, but i can just imagine it would sound so much better if you got rid of some of those speakers. 


rcurley, check out the A6 avant. Great car.


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## cvjoint

rcurley55 said:


> actually, it's an SAV  but that's splitting hairs.
> 
> The S8, while a great looking car is WAAAAYYYYYYYY to big for my tastes.
> 
> When you drive a loud, red, M3, that's lowered, etc - you get a lot of negative stigma from girls and guys a like. I never bought my car to show off, I bought it because I like the way it looks and drives. Unfortunately many people assume that I got it for the former reason.
> 
> One of the only things that will keep me from selling it is that I can't get more performance and luxury for the dollar anywhere without really breaking the bank. The next car, sadly, will be a downgrade





internecine said:


> im sure your car sounds good, but i can just imagine it would sound so much better if you got rid of some of those speakers.
> 
> 
> rcurley, check out the A6 avant. Great car.


Dude, scrape everything off then and get the new RS5 when it comes out. it uses the same 4.2 liter engine found in the RS4 but it is a very sexy coupe. It should have a milder behavior compared to the M3, and imo takes home the best design trophy.


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## rcurley55

internecine said:


> rcurley, check out the A6 avant. Great car.


I'd be much more inclined to do the S4 Avant before the A6


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## cvjoint

Whiterabbit said:


> Im glad to hear it, I didnt like two things about the door:
> 
> non-routered rings make for a wavy finish.
> it was not sanded flat, was wavy all over the place.
> 
> I'd never see a car finished like that. two hours with some 80 or even 60 grit paper would have done it.
> 
> I want to experiment with a technique I think will work phenominally. A method to repair doorpanels like this that have already been cut and fabbed with jigsaw cut rings. The idea is to take a perfect ring jig and use carpet tape to hold it over the existing ring. Quick buzz with the patternmaker bit and the mistake is corrected.


Ohh man, I thought you had something worse to say. The finish is half-assed no doubt. I worked on these doors for something like 25 days and one day got fed-up and started painting them. You know it looks like a 2 hour job but in reality it takes days to get them at this stage. 

Here are the "non-routered rings"










Which look pretty good to me, and again this alone took about 4 hours to do right. The Xls baffle requirements are not noob-friendly and takes a while to glue.

Here is the door after fiberglass. It took a week to get them into the current shape. I tried a sandpaper machine but worked like ****...hand motion proved to be much more efficient and flexible.










I think the door worked great as a speaker box and door but was in no shape or form good for show. I haven't seen anyone attempt to make the whole door out of fiberglass and discard the stock one from the back outside of shows where businesses make or sponsor their own car. 

If you guys can give me any tips how to sand faster and get rid of the waves and stuff I'm open for them. This time again I only have 2 weeks to work on them but most of the hard stuff has passed.


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> did you fiberglass the doors because of all the power you are sending to the mids? to keep rigid as possible?


For many reasons:
-Stock doors will also act as grilles unless you chop them up around the speaker and then it's just ghetto
-To allow for deeper drivers to fit
-rigidity yes
-no matter how much dynamat I used the window mechanism would still rattle
-believe it or not it also came out to be a bit lighter than using multiple 3/4 mdf rings to bring the XLS 8 out of the door.
-allowed me to mount the midrange more on-axis


----------



## DonutHands

i guess it all depends on your budget. i think the 6 series looks leaps and bounds better than the 4. so go for a S6


----------



## Megalomaniac

To help with sanding perhaps find a friend with a d/a. also for filler i highly recomend any RAGE product( gold is my weapon of choice, but extreme is better) reason i suggest rage gold is because it sands x10 better than a bondo product. the rage extreme sands x20 better but costs a lot more, i figure meet half way. it will save time and energy.

so is the airspace where the window goes down into not used at all now, its sealed off from glass panel?


----------



## rcurley55

internecine said:


> i guess it all depends on your budget. i think the 6 series looks leaps and bounds better than the 4. so go for a S6


nah, not a budget issue, more of a size issue - the 6 series is big - maybe I'm scarred from driving one all over Ireland

but I'll stay out of this thread - it's not the "what's rob buying next thread"


----------



## ArcL100

A few comments about the doors.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen an amateur install perfectly sanded. Look at ****ing ANY kickpod/doorpod/subbox made from fiberglass not carpeted/vinyled over on this forum - you will see imperfections/waves in ALL of them - and usually they still get praise and compliments.

I think for a 1st-2nd or 3rd attempt at an entire one-off door panel, the surfacing is pretty remarkable.

When bondoing it's important to shave off as much as you can while it's setting up before it's hardened. Then use long, confident strokes when sanding - using a block or a dowel or some padding - when you use your bare hand it gets uneven because of the bumps of your fingers.

That being said, the whole one-piece look reminds me of a Cobalt SS door or something. With no seams or break lines or trim pieces, it just looks like what it is - a big piece of fiberglass.










Maybe something to break it up a bit, I dunno?...

I made trim pieces of out foam-core and felt for like $10, lol: http://www.z2b2.com/audio1.jpg

I usually like exposed drivers - especially because phase cones are so sexy - I think they pop a little much though with the copper against the blue. Just my opinion.

I would definitely experiment with under lapping. With the xovers spots meeting up on each other, you're definitely going to have some overlap and peaks in your response.

Keep it up! I thought you put 10's in these doors though? Where's the new pics 

-aaron


----------



## Whiterabbit

cvjoint said:


> Ohh man, I thought you had something worse to say. .


not about the doors, thats all I can say. (not a fan of exposed drivers, but thats HUGELY personal opinion)

I'm glad you agree, but I REALLY hope you dont "give up" after 25 days on the new panels!

and consider coming over to the dark side.......of not being able to see the drivers


----------



## Megalomaniac

ArcL100 said:


> A few comments about the doors.
> 
> Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen an amateur install perfectly sanded. Look at ****ing ANY kickpod/doorpod/subbox made from fiberglass not carpeted/vinyled over on this forum - you will see imperfections/waves in ALL of them - and usually they still get praise and compliments.
> 
> I think for a 1st-2nd or 3rd attempt at an entire one-off door panel, the surfacing is pretty remarkable.
> 
> When bondoing it's important to shave off as much as you can while it's setting up before it's hardened. Then use long, confident strokes when sanding - using a block or a dowel or some padding - when you use your bare hand it gets uneven because of the bumps of your fingers.
> 
> That being said, the whole one-piece look reminds me of a Cobalt SS door or something. With no seams or break lines or trim pieces, it just looks like what it is - a big piece of fiberglass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe something to break it up a bit, I dunno?...
> 
> I made trim pieces of out foam-core and felt for like $10, lol: http://www.z2b2.com/audio1.jpg
> 
> I usually like exposed drivers - especially because phase cones are so sexy - I think they pop a little much though with the copper against the blue. Just my opinion.
> 
> I would definitely experiment with under lapping. With the xovers spots meeting up on each other, you're definitely going to have some overlap and peaks in your response.
> 
> Keep it up! I thought you put 10's in these doors though? Where's the new pics
> 
> -aaron


i like those pillars. you got any more pictures of them, maybe a build thread?


----------



## Megalomaniac

Also were you talking about this cvjoint?


----------



## ocuriel

That is sick! Love that blue.


----------



## cvjoint

rcurley55 said:


> nah, not a budget issue, more of a size issue - the 6 series is big - maybe I'm scarred from driving one all over Ireland
> 
> but I'll stay out of this thread - it's not the "what's rob buying next thread"


Actually I think it turned into "What's George buying next thread?". Every time you mentioned the aggressiveness of the M it made me want it even more


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> To help with sanding perhaps find a friend with a d/a. also for filler i highly recomend any RAGE product( gold is my weapon of choice, but extreme is better) reason i suggest rage gold is because it sands x10 better than a bondo product. the rage extreme sands x20 better but costs a lot more, i figure meet half way. it will save time and energy.
> 
> so is the airspace where the window goes down into not used at all now, its sealed off from glass panel?


What's a D/A again? I will surely try a different body filler next time. As was mentioned before I will also make sure that I start sanding before it dries completely. Last time this proved to be a big 'oopsie' that took hours to sand down to workable levels.

Nothing is sealed behind the door panel. In my next install I'm thinking of sealing the inside (part where glass goes down) from the rest and use it as a speaker box. I would use the first cavity formed by the panel and the door but unfortunately that's not enough breathing space for the 10.




Megalomaniac said:


> Also were you talking about this cvjoint?


No...it's actually the U part that attaches to the bottom...goes though a metal piece to the bottom of the engine bay and comes back into the air filter assembly. That's a nice umbilical cord no? I wonder what went on in the engineer's head when he designed that repulsive thing...maybe it cancels some sound.


----------



## cvjoint

ArcL100 said:


> A few comments about the doors.
> 
> Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen an amateur install perfectly sanded. Look at ****ing ANY kickpod/doorpod/subbox made from fiberglass not carpeted/vinyled over on this forum - you will see imperfections/waves in ALL of them - and usually they still get praise and compliments.
> 
> I think for a 1st-2nd or 3rd attempt at an entire one-off door panel, the surfacing is pretty remarkable.
> 
> When bondoing it's important to shave off as much as you can while it's setting up before it's hardened. Then use long, confident strokes when sanding - using a block or a dowel or some padding - when you use your bare hand it gets uneven because of the bumps of your fingers.
> 
> That being said, the whole one-piece look reminds me of a Cobalt SS door or something. With no seams or break lines or trim pieces, it just looks like what it is - a big piece of fiberglass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe something to break it up a bit, I dunno?...
> 
> I made trim pieces of out foam-core and felt for like $10, lol: http://www.z2b2.com/audio1.jpg
> 
> I usually like exposed drivers - especially because phase cones are so sexy - I think they pop a little much though with the copper against the blue. Just my opinion.
> 
> I would definitely experiment with under lapping. With the xovers spots meeting up on each other, you're definitely going to have some overlap and peaks in your response.
> 
> Keep it up! I thought you put 10's in these doors though? Where's the new pics
> 
> -aaron


Yeah I thought this being a diy forum and such for people to not notice things pertaining to finish but I guess it goes hand in hand with the perfectionist mindset that many have on here. This was the first time I used a router, jig, or fiberglass. I wish I would have had more patience on the finish but with the winter break finished and 4 weekends lost during 2nd quarter at the university I was seriously falling behind. 

I did start on the 10s but I made a different mistake this time: I used boat fiberglass that was too thick and couldn't get the shape right. I'm waiting till winter break again to finish those babies up. Here's a teaser pick:











BTW I love your photo editing! I always wanted to emphasize that sporty curve I gave the door between the drivers and couldn't figure how. I think I'm going to go ahead and dress it all in leather though. It's much easier than sanding an extra 3 days.


----------



## cvjoint

Whiterabbit said:


> not about the doors, thats all I can say. (not a fan of exposed drivers, but thats HUGELY personal opinion)
> 
> I'm glad you agree, but I REALLY hope you dont "give up" after 25 days on the new panels!
> 
> and consider coming over to the dark side.......of not being able to see the drivers





ocuriel said:


> That is sick! Love that blue.


I loved the blue and copper contrast for sure and I will definitely not cover my speakers. However, I am getting kinda tired of the bright metallic finish and fiberglass feel of the door. I will dress in in vinyl or leather and keep the speakers open. It's such a shame to cover the Excel...especially in the muscular 10 version!


----------



## Megalomaniac

Dual Action Sander (pneumatic powered, eats air like candy though)


----------



## ArcL100

cvjoint said:


> However, I am getting kinda tired of the bright metallic finish and fiberglass feel of the door. I will dress in in vinyl or leather and keep the speakers open.


NICE! Now you got it 

-aaron


----------



## Megalomaniac

what does that left thing do next to crusie button?


----------



## cvjoint

It's a Passport Radar control module. It lights up different color and blinks when it picks something up and provides a mute button for false or acknowledged alarms


----------



## Fozz

Looks nice. Where do you put your groceries??? 

Are you going to clean up the install a bit? Wiring under the hood mainly.


----------



## cvjoint

Well...like I said there's about 60% of the trunk volume left  

I cleaned up the cables a little since then. I I didn't have enough 0 gage connectors on the battery posts for all the grounds but the way the monster posts work it's very reliably connected and may look a bit fuzzy. I'm thinking of using some shrink tubing on the cable ends to give it a better look and feel. 

I don't plan to do anything else under the hood until the turbo install


----------



## cvjoint

Update after the first week of winter break:

1. I cleaned up the doors a bit after the fiasco when thinking I was superhuman I tried to reglass the doors in two days and screwed up big time - I cut the wrong size rings, used too thick of a fiberglass, the doors warped in the sun drying.



















I basically overheated my dremel cutting huge chunks of fiberglass and used mat instead which is much easier to bend and get into shape. I fiberglassed with the door screwed on in order to have a properly fitting door at the end of the day. I had to waste 2 extra days to make up for having too small a mounting ring. I ended up cutting thin strips of mat and laying then inside the ring. 

All mistakes aside the smaller ring allowed me more flexibility in mounting the driver as low as possible and far in the door. It is also super waterproof and ended up being 1.5 inches in thickness, a nice and sturdy baffle.

2. Finished up hard surfacing.
I used some left over body filler and gave the door it's main shape. I still have to spend another day on minor details before I primer it for good.


----------



## cvjoint

Update no. II
1. I did some more sanding and sprayed some primer on it to see where I need to smooth things out. I kinda like the funky blue/gray theme, it looks like demolition derby! I'm not sure how smooth I have to make it if I cover it in leather, I am currently sanding with 50 and 60 grit. I think somewhere around 120 grit will be smooth enough. It's the overall shape that has to be right, whereas with paint you'd need to go up to at least 1000 grit and maybe do some wet sanding to get it to shine.



















2. I mounted the driver along with every other accessory of the door to see if it all fits properly. I only have one minor closing issue on the passenger door so I have to glass a bit more. I mounted the drivers using hex screws from PE and initially used t-nuts. Those didn't work so well on fiberglassed rings since the teeth would bend not able to penetrate the fiber. I used hurricane nuts from PE this time and the results are much better. Simply drill for the screw first and and then using a larger bit drill the back 1/2 inch to get the nut in. Tap it with a hammer and you are done. No need to add extra resin to make a solid fit, and this way you have more flexibility when you mount the driver. My baffle proved to be almost 2 inches thick so I had to do some more drilling to fit the nuts farther in.









T-nuts left, hurricane nuts right










3. It starts to take shape now! I put the doors in and drove around for 3 days to try them out. I currently have them setup with the Neo 8 running up to 800hz 30db slopes.


----------



## sr20det510

Looks great!


----------



## cvjoint

sr20det510 said:


> Looks great!


Thanks! I'm really diggin' the W26s, I think they are a great match to the IdMaxes in the back. Both are very accurate snappy drivers.


----------



## cubdenno

WOW!! Love the doors. Would love to do that to my doors but am sure the wife would divorce. You are using what I am planning on. I want to use the Neo 8's as a midrange down to at least 500 hertz possibly a smidgen lower. I talked to a BG guy and he mentioned enclosing them. Are yours enclosed? I have never used a planar but TCSounds (Audiopulse) has a planar mid/tweet that made me think of the BG unit. It comes in an enclosure very similar in size as the BG guy recommended. I would use a Dayton Reference 8" as the midbass and the Neo 3 as the tweeter. Since you use the Neo 3 would mounting it in the factory dash locations firing up into the glass terribly affect the sound? The Neo 3 PDR come in their own cup enclosure. I will be using the Alpine 701 to cross them over High slopes and as an added safety measure also using the amps built in crossover high passing below what the alpine is set at. Have been looking for somebody who has used these speakers and you are it!! I would be using the Neo 8's horizontally like a horn in a car. Please advise or critique!!

Thanks!!
Cub


----------



## cvjoint

Awesome! The BG planars are wonderful toys. I do have mine enclosed but since I never planed on using it below 1khz I only have a random 1/2 inch depth on the back enclosure. I plan to double the space but I don't have a clue as to how much they require for 500hz. What did the BG guy tell you?

As far as placing them horizontally. These use long elements that will give you limited dispersion. Since you are using a dedicated tweeter you might get by with a flat FR up to the cross point. Good part is they have better dispersion horizontally so it shouldn't be too bad. 

In my experience the BGs like on axis vertical placement but with your planed setup it should work. If you plan to reflect the Neo 3 do it completely, as in the sound should be coming only as reflected from the windshield and not half direct radiating half reflecting.


----------



## cubdenno

Thanks for the asscrack of dawn reply!! Here is the Audiopulse TCSounds one. http://www.audiopulse.com/products/technologies/planar

I think they are the same driver though it is a two way and so i am not so sure.

The guy from BG stated a well stuffed >=4" enclosure would hit 500hz. Just have something that will absorb the back wave. I have pendant enclosures that are about 3" deep at work that fit the bill pretty well. Will just machine some PVC bar stock to make the speaker mount and give the correct depth of the enclosure. 

The Neo3 would be mounted in the factory dash locations if I used them there (Toyota Solara). I figure even if they don't sound good for my app I can always make a home project out of them. Wife has given the OK to start ordering stuff. So I will continue to watch what you are doing! Thanks for the input!


----------



## cvjoint

It was late cuz I found some thread on dyma about surface mounting so I decided to flush mount my 10s 

I don't think the Audiopulse is a rebadged driver, at least not the Neo 8. It uses kapton film instead of Kaladex and has an impendance of 8 ohms not 4 like the BG. They claim it extends out to 30khz which is a bit unrealistic unless there is voodoo involved at some point. That is true ribbon territory, a heavier planar element usually rolls off at 18khz at the latest.

4 inch is quite a lot of enclosure depth if you ask me. I'm hoping 1.5inches will be enough to dig down to 800hz or so, that's as deep as I'm able to make it. I'm thinking of sticking some ensolite clone on the back wall for absorption purposes.


----------



## cvjoint

Update no. III Courtesy light fabrication
If you guys have been following the build I originally had XLS 8 midbass drivers mounted on the close end of the door. I am converting that opening back to courtesy light status with a twist. I want to maintain that part of the door shape because I worked my but for a week to give it that shape last year has lots of potential as a light source.
1. Custom ordered plexy covers 3/8s thick following the shape of the Xls 8 frame some 225/205 truncated design. ~ $40










2. This is how it looks mounted on the door. I didn't take any chances with drilling and cracking and I bought the plexi bit - made my work a breeze. It is mounted using machine hex screws into the already installed T-nuts from the xls 8.










3. The total see through is a bit too much for me. I went ahead and sanded the back to create the 'frosted' look. I found 120grit to be the best compromise between smoothness in texture and amount of ligh that can pass through.










4. The source of lighting is this custom 6 led direct replacement bulb. It is blue and matches my blue led dash coversion. I have a blue led Passport x50 radar detector and custom dash cluster to match. If Chad is watching this I am barricading my house windows as I'm typing  










5. Light fixture is $6 bucks worth of Walmart gear. Two cooking pots and two plastic 'widgets'. Toghether these should diffuse the light a bit as leds are highly directional. The pans' metalic finish will conserve some light to hopefully light up the panel wholely.










6. Fixture put toghether.


----------



## cvjoint

Update no. IV Door preparation
1. Added some more Dynamat Extreme to areas that were open, such as the close corner where the XLS 8 used to sit and the stock door plastic clip holes. This stuff applies very well in 60 degree weather. I used a torch to heat it up a bit but I didn't see any noticeable improvement in the application so I ditched it and rolled it at ambient temperature. 2-6 layers of Dynamat extreme were rolled depending on how needful it seemed. 


















2. Finished lining up the inside of the door with convoluted acoustic foam. I used liquid nails glue to make it stick to the back of the door. On the support bars I used an ensolite substitute material. The first layer of the door only has one dynamat extreme layer. The way this door is built I didn't see the need for the extra mass loading, as in two or more layers, on that metal sheet.











One addition: I used barbed insert nuts and not hurricane nuts to fasten the woofer, I got confused on the labeling. 

Update no. V is the final door update and will move to the kick panel fabrication!


----------



## BigRed

cv,

where did you get the foam egg crate stuff?


----------



## cvjoint

BigRed said:


> cv,
> 
> where did you get the foam egg crate stuff?


PartsExpress has it for very cheap. IMO it's the best bang for the buck when treating a door.


----------



## cvjoint

Update no. V Final door pics

I had them at an upholstery shop for a few days to get dressed. Suede is what I ended up using, it is thin so it doesn't mess with the door clearance too much, it stretches well - they didn't even need to stitch it at all, and it think it works a bit better for audio purposes than a reflective material. I tried to match it to the door leather parts so that I doesn't create too many color tones, it's already two tone. I think I may use this material on the bottom dash pieces where the kicks go if it has better acoustic properties than plastic. Any input on this?




























The woofers are flush mounted to create a flat baffle. Abmolech always recommended it so I went with it.


----------



## Bluto Blutarsky

I love the look and feel of that material but for a filthy,greasy mechanic like me, it would be too short lived, but for you, I think it's awesome, besides how else would you upholster a rolling nightclub.


----------



## 328iBMW

Nice work.

You've got to post some pictures with the door lit up at night or in the dark.  

It looks like the vynal could be tighter. The suede looks good.


----------



## Whiterabbit

the vinyl is a "gathered" look. Common on many higher end luxury cars.

Unfortunately, on an Accord it looks sloppy. It's gotta go. Needs something to match closer to the suede texture. the suede looks better.
--------------------
The best idea I've heard concerning the under dash was the following. Replace the under dash panel with metal mesh to allow sound to pass right through. The backside gets thick padding material. Eggcrate should work. then the exposed side gets wrapped in whatever material you like.

The idea is rather than provide ANY reflective surface, to allow sound to pass right through into the under dash, damping it as much as possible. What can actually pass through gets to bounce and reflect all over odd surfaces in your under dash. Any that eventually reflect back to the padding have to pass again through the damping material if it wants to interfere with your great sound.


----------



## cvjoint

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> I love the look and feel of that material but for a filthy,greasy mechanic like me, it would be too short lived, but for you, I think it's awesome, besides how else would you upholster a rolling nightclub.


You don't look greasy, I would have guessed you were a computer programmer before a mechanic. Hmm what kind of mechanical work do you do?



328iBMW said:


> Nice work.
> 
> You've got to post some pictures with the door lit up at night or in the dark.
> 
> It looks like the vynal could be tighter. The suede looks good.


I do have a pic at night but these courtesy lights are not done. I still need to make a logo on them. I'm not into 8 inch courtesy lights



Whiterabbit said:


> the vinyl is a "gathered" look. Common on many higher end luxury cars.
> 
> Unfortunately, on an Accord it looks sloppy. It's gotta go. Needs something to match closer to the suede texture. the suede looks better.
> --------------------
> The best idea I've heard concerning the under dash was the following. Replace the under dash panel with metal mesh to allow sound to pass right through. The backside gets thick padding material. Eggcrate should work. then the exposed side gets wrapped in whatever material you like.
> 
> The idea is rather than provide ANY reflective surface, to allow sound to pass right through into the under dash, damping it as much as possible. What can actually pass through gets to bounce and reflect all over odd surfaces in your under dash. Any that eventually reflect back to the padding have to pass again through the damping material if it wants to interfere with your great sound.


I love it! You come up with the craziest genius driven ideas. I wouldn't know how to convert the panel to metal mesh and in my application the back side offers almost no clearance for thick padding. How about Ensolite on the panel first and then suede? You know...I'll give it some thought.


----------



## Whiterabbit

not my idea. I think it was Dual700 who I first read it from.

Once the panel is out of the vehicle you can trace it over some mesh and cut with a grinder or tinsnips or jigsaw.


----------



## Bluto Blutarsky

cvjoint said:


> You don't look greasy, I would have guessed you were a computer programmer before a mechanic. Hmm what kind of mechanical work do you do?


 I work on automobiles at an independent garage. yea, I know I don't look the type, but I really enjoy it. I guess I better cause I've been there for 20 years.


----------



## chad

cvjoint said:


> 4. The source of lighting is this custom 6 led direct replacement bulb. It is blue and matches my blue led dash coversion. I have a blue led Passport x50 radar detector and custom dash cluster to match. If Chad is watching this I am barricading my house windows as I'm typing


I can't give you too much grief because it's a hell of a fab BUT have you tried the refractor LEDs that have one out and 4 side firing LED's? They give nice even coverage. Luxeon eimtters give off a wide angle light also. Have you tried to rough up the widgets to help eliminate hot spots?

Blue... sheesh


----------



## cvjoint

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> I work on automobiles at an independent garage. yea, I know I don't look the type, but I really enjoy it. I guess I better cause I've been there for 20 years.


That awesome. Honestly I got into this hobby because I didn't have enough cash to modify the mechanical side of the car. If you can give me some pointers with that it would be awesome, I'm darn near acoustical utopia, my focus will change to the mechanical side very soon.



chad said:


> I can't give you too much grief because it's a hell of a fab BUT have you tried the refractor LEDs that have one out and 4 side firing LED's? They give nice even coverage. Luxeon eimtters give off a wide angle light also. Have you tried to rough up the widgets to help eliminate hot spots?
> 
> Blue... sheesh


Got away without a scratch!

In all my other conversion LEDs the top has been flattened. These ones didn't come like that and I was afraid to wiggle them too much. The refractor LEDs don't happen to come in the same plug and play format do they? I've also added some self sticking paper on the glass house of the bulb to diffuse a bit.

Anyways, I will have a design on that plexy that requires a bit of center focusing so it should look good.

I don't like the blue lights too bright though, I dim to the lowest level the radar, W200, and the instrument cluster.


----------



## James Bang

I have to say that those 10"s look much bigger and sexier in person!

They also sound as good as they look. I'm still in awe.


----------



## stoeszilla

That looks great, but....I loved the blue from previous pictures (at least from what I saw)! Really showed off the 'glassing skills. either way looks great.


----------



## cvjoint

James Bang said:


> I have to say that those 10"s look much bigger and sexier in person!
> 
> They also sound as good as they look. I'm still in awe.


I got a little surprise for next time at the meet  



stoeszilla said:


> That looks great, but....I loved the blue from previous pictures (at least from what I saw)! Really showed off the 'glassing skills. either way looks great.


I feel you. I worked on them soo long but what 99% of the people will appreciate is the 1 hour the upholstery shop took to wrap them. I did make some design features that you can only appreciate in person even with the suede. There is a wide scoop from the courtesy light extending to the woofer. The courtesy light also has some rather muscular terminations on the top and bottom that the suede can't cover  The Honda panel had none of these. On the other hand suede does feel rather nice when I cruise with my hand out.


----------



## chad

cvjoint said:


> The refractor LEDs don't happen to come in the same plug and play format do they?


Absolutely they do! I use them in my clear corner markers


----------



## cvjoint

chad said:


> Absolutely they do! I use them in my clear corner markers


Now I will use them in my doors as soon as they arrive at my doorstep 

This is a pic I took at night, it's really fuzzy but gives a good idea how I diffused the light a bit.


----------



## chad

I love that body style of Accord. Just timeless...... Glad you found something. There is still one shooting forward, I think it will fill nicely.


----------



## cvjoint

chad said:


> I love that body style of Accord. Just timeless...... Glad you found something. There is still one shooting forward, I think it will fill nicely.


Thanks Chad, this was a really good pointer, I would not have known about these LEDs. I love this Accord body too, I choose carefully. I believe I can make this car really nice, I am swapping the tranny soon and getting an ACT clutch in preparation for the turbo. There will be some alterations to the outside body too, but not before I make it fast. If only it weren't front wheel drive, that's something I can never change.


----------



## ThisWasAndy

cvjoint said:


> Thanks Chad, this was a really good pointer, I would not have known about these LEDs. I love this Accord body too, I choose carefully. I believe I can make this car really nice, I am swapping the tranny soon and getting an ACT clutch in preparation for the turbo. There will be some alterations to the outside body too, but not before I make it fast. If only it weren't front wheel drive, that's something I can never change.


6th Gen Love.
I'm on the Sedan side of things though, teehee.


----------



## cvjoint

ThisWasAndy said:


> 6th Gen Love.
> I'm on the Sedan side of things though, teehee.


Is that a dual exhaust 4 cyl?


----------



## Bluto Blutarsky

cvjoint said:


> That awesome. Honestly I got into this hobby because I didn't have enough cash to modify the mechanical side of the car. If you can give me some pointers with that it would be awesome, I'm darn near acoustical utopia, my focus will change to the mechanical side very soon.


 Anytime you want pointers, just ask.


----------



## ThisWasAndy

cvjoint said:


> Is that a dual exhaust 4 cyl?


lol.
yes, yes it is.
you on v6p?
everything-honda?
6thgenaccord?


----------



## cvjoint

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Anytime you want pointers, just ask.


Will do...will do.



ThisWasAndy said:


> lol.
> yes, yes it is.
> you on v6p?
> everything-honda?
> 6thgenaccord?


I used to be on Honduh a long time ago. Do you know if that dual exhaust fits on my coupe without modifications? I have a 4 cyl too.


----------



## ThisWasAndy

cvjoint said:


> Will do...will do.
> 
> 
> 
> I used to be on Honduh a long time ago. Do you know if that dual exhaust fits on my coupe without modifications? I have a 4 cyl too.


Take it to a reputable muffler shop and they'll make it work.

Just an extra hangar or so.

I was on Honduh too. Moved over to Everything-Honda.com which seems to have simply died. 6thgenaccord is ok but not really feeling some of the maturity on that site. I find myself just lurking around honda forums nowadays, mostly on V6P.

If you go dual you'll lose a bit of bottom end and you'll have to rev slightly higher to get going. Kind of annoying. But the sound is a lot throatier.


----------



## chad

cvjoint said:


> I used to be on Honduh a long time ago. Do you know if that dual exhaust fits on my coupe without modifications? I have a 4 cyl too.


I let you slide on the Blue LED's, but I ain't gonna let you slide on dual exhaust


----------



## Bluto Blutarsky

chad said:


> I let you slide on the Blue LED's, but I ain't gonna let you slide on dual exhaust


 Ditto, it's just bringing along more weight and that's the last thing you need.


----------



## cvjoint

ThisWasAndy said:


> If you go dual you'll lose a bit of bottom end and you'll have to rev slightly higher to get going. Kind of annoying. But the sound is a lot throatier.





chad said:


> I let you slide on the Blue LED's, but I ain't gonna let you slide on dual exhaust





Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Ditto, it's just bringing along more weight and that's the last thing you need.


NO
Yes you will
and NO

You guys are missing an important piece of info. I will turbocharge before I ever change the exhaust on this car. That will do a few things: it will require less back pressure, the dual muffler will quiet the evacuated gases more vs. a single, and more weight won't be a problem with 220 lb/ft of torque at 3000rpm. I hate to loose weight to go faster, not the kind of tradeoff I like, just like I don't want it to pollute more or break spl laws.

First things first though. I need to change my clutch and do something about the way my gears grind on the current tranny. If you guys have any tips on this that would be awesome. I plan to turbo for 200hp and 220lb/ft and eventually drop in a fully built motor ~ 400hp on 91 octane. I need a heavy duty clutch assembly and a good working tranny first.


----------



## chad

cvjoint said:


> NO
> Yes you will
> and NO
> 
> You guys are missing an important piece of info. I will turbocharge before I ever change the exhaust on this car. That will do a few things: it will require less back pressure, the dual muffler will quiet the evacuated gases more vs. a single, and more weight won't be a problem with 220 lb/ft of torque at 3000rpm. I hate to loose weight to go faster, not the kind of tradeoff I like, just like I don't want it to pollute more or break spl laws.
> 
> First things first though. I need to change my clutch and do something about the way my gears grind on the current tranny. If you guys have any tips on this that would be awesome. I plan to turbo for 200hp and 220lb/ft and eventually drop in a fully built motor ~ 400hp on 91 octane. I need a heavy duty clutch assembly and a good working tranny first.


No,no,no,no, With a proper try-y header you want a bit of backpressure forced induction or not. A single exhaust will work JUST fine. Hell, I run a single on a supercharged 8  Many are doing it, there ae lots of options out there.


----------



## cvjoint

chad said:


> No,no,no,no, With a proper try-y header you want a bit of backpressure forced induction or not. A single exhaust will work JUST fine. Hell, I run a single on a supercharged 8  Many are doing it, there ae lots of options out there.


No doubt a single can handle things just fine. Heck, look at the Supra TTs. Some 1.5 thousand horses on a single exhaust. However when you switch to forced induction dual vs. single is hair splitting. I think my model Accord just craves for dual. The dual Apexi WS exhaust is very quiet and the piping is still rather small for high boost applications. I will have plenty of back pressure left when it's all finalized. It should still be quieter than one shouldn't it?


----------



## ThisWasAndy

cvjoint said:


> No doubt a single can handle things just fine. Heck, look at the Supra TTs. Some 1.5 thousand horses on a single exhaust. However when you switch to forced induction dual vs. single is hair splitting. I think my model Accord just craves for dual. The dual Apexi WS exhaust is very quiet and the piping is still rather small for high boost applications. I will have plenty of back pressure left when it's all finalized. It should still be quieter than one shouldn't it?


Yes, the dual is quieter than the one. Which was the primary reason why I went dual. Angry bumblebee tuna. hell no. 

My car ain't going fast anytime soon. or anytime at all. Just want it to look halfway decent.


----------



## chad

I'm throwing down 525Ft/Lb of torque and you would never know it other than a SLIGHT whine under the hood like an alternator bearing going out and a mild rumble. Single 3" Down the highway, sounds like a normal truck, totally normal.


Don't put duals on a Honda, it just ain't right.


----------



## cvjoint

ThisWasAndy said:


> Yes, the dual is quieter than the one. Which was the primary reason why I went dual. Angry bumblebee tuna. hell no.
> 
> My car ain't going fast anytime soon. or anytime at all. Just want it to look halfway decent.


It's too sexy not to go fast, I love this chassis. I will max out the performance on it before moving on the next car. Imagine my 400hp monster retiring to my parent's garage for occasional use. Shouldn't be too crazy, you can only do so much with front wheel drive.



chad said:


> I'm throwing down 525Ft/Lb of torque and you would never know it other than a SLIGHT whine under the hood like an alternator bearing going out and a mild rumble. Single 3" Down the highway, sounds like a normal truck, totally normal.
> 
> 
> Don't put duals on a Honda, it just ain't right.


But it won't even be 50% Honda when I'll be done with it.  I heard I can recirculate the blow off valve to make it more subtle too. My HO alt. will always be the loudest component in this car  On second thought, I might have a bearing going out, I don't think it was ever this noisy. Oh well lifetime warranty for the save.


----------



## chad

cvjoint said:


> I heard I can recirculate the blow off valve to make it more subtle too.


There ya go! That's more "stockish" and IMHO tasteful. It's a classy car, keep it cool, not noticeable. I've driven luxy caddys, bone stock looking, that will TEAR ASS. You can go fast and not get jacked with, but if you put duals on a Honda you are going to get ****ed with. ****, I took everything off my car that mentioned VTEC, people jack with you less and it's nice to "learn some folk" (well, not in MY honda  ) Truck is plane jane too, it goes. 

Chad


----------



## Arc

Make it a sleeper as much as you can. Just subtle changes to the exterior to make it look a "little" different. 

I have always dreamed about throwing a supra engine in my mom's gs300. The only things that would chage is the front bumper for the FMIC and the rear tire size and teh exhaust.


----------



## cvjoint

chad said:


> There ya go! That's more "stockish" and IMHO tasteful. It's a classy car, keep it cool, not noticeable. I've driven luxy caddys, bone stock looking, that will TEAR ASS. You can go fast and not get jacked with, but if you put duals on a Honda you are going to get ****ed with. ****, I took everything off my car that mentioned VTEC, people jack with you less and it's nice to "learn some folk" (well, not in MY honda  ) Truck is plane jane too, it goes.
> 
> Chad


The way I see it Chad, it's their fault for assuming and being ignorant. VTEC is kick butt technology, whoever smirks at it should try to engineer something better. 

My Accord actually comes with dual in V6 trim and with all Honda badges off nobody will know it's not. I took mine off to preserve the clean lines on the car and because I hate to advertise for the manufacturer everywhere I go.

I don't think people mess with trucks anyways


----------



## cvjoint

Arc said:


> Make it a sleeper as much as you can. Just subtle changes to the exterior to make it look a "little" different.
> 
> I have always dreamed about throwing a supra engine in my mom's gs300. The only things that would chage is the front bumper for the FMIC and the rear tire size and teh exhaust.


Will do, although I'll hope to fit some 245 x 18 in there with some fender modifications.

I think you will end up changing a lot more than that, clutch, axles, gauges, brakes etc.


----------



## ArcL100

Waste of money... If you want a fast car, buy a fast car.

My v6 with 200/200 was slow as dog ****.

-aaron


----------



## Bluto Blutarsky

ArcL100 said:


> Waste of money... If you want a fast car, buy a fast car.
> 
> My v6 with 200/200 was slow as dog ****.
> 
> -aaron


 Harsh, but true. Your car is nice, leave it stock and it will never let you down. Use your Honda to fetch parts for a purpose built car. These guys are in our backyard, I know most of them. They run in Fontucky, wanna go see em?
http://www.pscaracing.com/


----------



## cvjoint

Then you trade-off the underdog status. This will be the cheap insurance, cheap price tag, cheap unexpected performance car. My wheel costs 100 bucks new, tranny 400, engine 500 any given piece on this car is not worth more than 500 bucks. It's purpose is to be fun to drive at very low cost. IMO you drove auto on that V6 and that is very tragic to say the least. I would trade for stickshift for any loss in power, that's the first ingredient to enjoyment of driving. Second is to have the ass slide but I'm not going to get rear wheel drive on this baby any time soon.

Speed limits are our limitations.


----------



## Megalomaniac

cvjoint: how did you mount the door panel to the door? do you have a link to where/what you used?


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> cvjoint: how did you mount the door panel to the door? do you have a link to where/what you used?


I used a nut riveter to punch in threaded nuts. I then used 1/4 and 10/32 pan head machine screws to hold the door pressed on to the sheet metal. The actual weight of the door is hanging of the top of the door like the stock Honda panel, not that the screws couldn't do it but they have a different purpose. Together with the gasketing tape the screws provide a rattle free air-tight seal. Did I mention this door sounds more solid than the stock one when you shut it?


----------



## Megalomaniac

cvjoint said:


> I used a nut riveter to punch in threaded nuts. I then used 1/4 and 10/32 pan head machine screws to hold the door pressed on to the sheet metal. The actual weight of the door is hanging of the top of the door like the stock Honda panel, not that the screws couldn't do it but they have a different purpose. Together with the gasketing tape the screws provide a rattle free air-tight seal. Did I mention this door sounds more solid than the stock one when you shut it?


one more thing. please update your ugly avator


----------



## James Bang

where are the pics of the kicks????


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## cvjoint

James Bang said:


> where are the pics of the kicks????


I have step by step pics ready to be posted I just haven't found any time. Maybe I'll start later on tonight. These will be a lot more eye pleasing than the door built and In sort of like a tutorial presentation since I built them in one sitting, not over two years.


----------



## James Bang

I hope they are eye-pleasing. I know for sure that they are ear-pleasing.


----------



## thehatedguy

I can't believe you guys are giving him crap about the dual exhaust when he has 9" of fender between the tires...all you would need are some locking hubs and you would be set to go off roading.


----------



## cvjoint

thehatedguy said:


> I can't believe you guys are giving him crap about the dual exhaust when he has 9" of fender between the tires...all you would need are some locking hubs and you would be set to go off roading.


I think Honda has 4 x 4 tendencies with their cars sometimes  

Since I got into car audio that gap sort of disappeared on the rear and got cut in half on the front. Be sure that a full suspension will go in before the dual exhaust.


----------



## dbTroy

cvjoint said:


> I have step by step pics ready to be posted I just haven't found any time. Maybe I'll start later on tonight. These will be a lot more eye pleasing than the door built and In sort of like a tutorial presentation since I built them in one sitting, not over two years.


I can't wait to see those pictures!!!

Questions: 

- How/what did you use as the mold for the fiberglass doorpanels? Did you just mask off the factory panels and use them for a mold or what?

- How did you attach the fiberglass panels to the door?


----------



## cvjoint

dbTroy said:


> I can't wait to see those pictures!!!
> 
> Questions:
> 
> - How/what did you use as the mold for the fiberglass doorpanels? Did you just mask off the factory panels and use them for a mold or what?
> 
> - How did you attach the fiberglass panels to the door?


I took the Honda doors down and stripped them completely of the leather/vinyl. I wrapped the doors in fleece and resined it to create a mold. I glassed it with a few layers and then took off the Honda panel from the back and trashed it. 

The FG door panel hangs on the metal door skin from the top just like the stock and then stays pressed against the metal door with the help of 6 machine screws that grab onto the sheet metal on the sides. 

I will take some pictures of the screws since there have been some requests, I doubt I will go back in the door anytime soon to take a picture of the threaded nuts in the sheetmetal. You'd have to wait until one of my regulators/actuator goes out


----------



## thehatedguy

I know what you mean wit the 4x4 tendencies..when I put the 18s on my Accord I had to wait a couple of weeks on my springs to get here. Damn, all I heard was stuff about going mudding. A mild drop like 1.25" makes all of the difference. The only thing I don't like about the Accords are largish wheels like 18s would look large on most cars, but they look small on these cars. I would have to go up to a 20 to get the wheel look I want. Which, right now 20" tires are cheaper than 18s...and I can't get too much smaller on the side wall since I have 35 series on there now.

Looking good man. The only thing is the vinyl on around the arm rest looks puffy, but I think you said you had that taken care of.


----------



## Megalomaniac

thehatedguy said:


> I know what you mean wit the 4x4 tendencies..when I put the 18s on my Accord I had to wait a couple of weeks on my springs to get here. Damn, all I heard was stuff about going mudding. A mild drop like 1.25" makes all of the difference. *The only thing I don't like about the Accords are largish wheels like 18s would look large on most cars, but they look small on these cars.* I would have to go up to a 20 to get the wheel look I want. Which, right now 20" tires are cheaper than 18s...and I can't get too much smaller on the side wall since I have 35 series on there now.
> 
> Looking good man. The only thing is the vinyl on around the arm rest looks puffy, but I think you said you had that taken care of.


werd  18s = big wheel gap


----------



## cvjoint

thehatedguy said:


> I know what you mean wit the 4x4 tendencies..when I put the 18s on my Accord I had to wait a couple of weeks on my springs to get here. Damn, all I heard was stuff about going mudding. A mild drop like 1.25" makes all of the difference. The only thing I don't like about the Accords are largish wheels like 18s would look large on most cars, but they look small on these cars. I would have to go up to a 20 to get the wheel look I want. Which, right now 20" tires are cheaper than 18s...and I can't get too much smaller on the side wall since I have 35 series on there now.
> 
> Looking good man. The only thing is the vinyl on around the arm rest looks puffy, but I think you said you had that taken care of.


I couldn't do 19s or 20s simply due to the thickness or lack off thickness of the tire. I am actually running 35 psi in my 18 225/40 tires to have a smoother ride at the risk of bending the rims. I believe most folks run about 40 psi to save the rims but mine are fairly sturdy (heavy as well) and cheap to replace.

If I were to pick my favorite size for the car it would be 19, I think it is the best match with the oversize whee arch these cars have. You need 20s for the big wheel look. 

What do you mean the armrest looks puffy? Is it where it meets with the courtesy lights? I had to modify them a bit to make them fit back in. I also foamed the inside to make it a bit more rigid, air proof and less likely to crack in - that plastic is 1/8 of an inch thick, how's that for an elbow support?


----------



## cvjoint

Kickpanel Install 

I. Concept and prep. work
The idea behind these kicks is to house the Seas Excel W22, BG Neo 8 PDR and LCY 108 and reduce many of the downsides that come with a 4 way plus sub setup. All drivers will be within a square foot area to embody a point source as much as possible and to eliminate the diffuse stage that comes with 4 way setups. The LCY 108 and the Neo 8 will share a baffle to maximize these properties. This concept also reduces the PLDs in between the drivers requiring minimal TA between them as well as left and right (kickpanel inherent properties). 

The location of the W22 is chosen to create more stage depth while off axis placement will have no great downfalls giving the limited bandwidth of the driver 200hz-1000hz, beaming is not an issue for an 8 inch mid at these frequencies and will most likely reduce any sort of audible break up of the magnesium cone. I am eager to experiment with a closed midrange enclosure to eliminate and door resonances from my previous installs.

The Lcy 108 location was chosen because the kickpanel takes up less space this way (more on this to follow) and due to it's high location in the kick, its lack of obstruction from passenger and driver legs. I am aware the lower location might have lifted the stage more but practically getting blocked has a larger effect on staging and tonality by far.

The Neo 8 getting blocked is not so much an issue, likewise with the W22. These drivers are fairly large and blocking is not as noticeable. Moreover the Neo 8 frequency band 1000hz-5500hz is the most irritating to the human ear per Fletcher Munson, cancellations in this area are sometimes pleasing.










Test fitting the speakers revealed one major problem...this:










The passenger kickpanel area is blocked at the top by the AC blower? hanging down some 2 inches under the dash area. Upright the W22 has only one inch of clearance after I cut down all carpet and firewall sound dampening material. This gave me just enough hight to go on with the project and a bit more room to build a larger kick.

The driver side had some issues to be resolved as well. The dead pedal was removed but one of the screws remained sticking from the floorboard. I cut it with a reinforced dremel wheel. I will also have to relocate the hood release.










In a few days I will post the second update with some glass and wood work.


----------



## ThisWasAndy

thehatedguy said:


> I know what you mean wit the 4x4 tendencies..when I put the 18s on my Accord I had to wait a couple of weeks on my springs to get here. Damn, all I heard was stuff about going mudding. A mild drop like 1.25" makes all of the difference. The only thing I don't like about the Accords are largish wheels like 18s would look large on most cars, but they look small on these cars. I would have to go up to a 20 to get the wheel look I want. Which, right now 20" tires are cheaper than 18s...and I can't get too much smaller on the side wall since I have 35 series on there now.
> 
> Looking good man. The only thing is the vinyl on around the arm rest looks puffy, but I think you said you had that taken care of.


If you drop it, the 18"s look right at home.
But its a serious drop, lol.

Even if you put 20"s, it'll STILL look 4x4ish. The drop is what makes the difference. You have to consider the fact that when you go with bigger wheels, you got with less meatier tires. I'm running 225/35/19 right now, but I have a 3+" drop. 






































Sorry for the threadjack again.


----------



## BigRed

drop that sucker, or add a big subwoofer box and gain 100 lbs


----------



## cvjoint

ThisWasAndy said:


> If you drop it, the 18"s look right at home.
> But its a serious drop, lol.
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack again.


I am aware of the severe lowering job it needs. What did you use again? I want to do mine right complete coilover system + chamber kit + alignment = a lot of cash. The Tein Basic is what I've always wanted but I hear they leak quite easily, and with the excess 500lbs weight it will be a big issue.

I love what you did with your car, very tasteful, reminds me of the good ole honduh days.

BTW there is no such thing as thread jacking on my thread.



BigRed said:


> drop that sucker, or add a big subwoofer box and gain 100 lbs


That was exactly my approach so far. The front gets weighed by the batteries, doors and kickpanels but it's no where near as heavy as 3 IdMaxes and 8 amps on a 3/4 baffle.

Damn you guys I wanted to turbo before the suspension work.


----------



## ThisWasAndy

cvjoint said:


> I am aware of the severe lowering job it needs. What did you use again? I want to do mine right complete coilover system + chamber kit + alignment = a lot of cash. The Tein Basic is what I've always wanted but I hear they leak quite easily, and with the excess 500lbs weight it will be a big issue.
> 
> I love what you did with your car, very tasteful, reminds me of the good ole honduh days.
> 
> BTW there is no such thing as thread jacking on my thread.
> 
> 
> 
> That was exactly my approach so far. The front gets weighed by the batteries, doors and kickpanels but it's no where near as heavy as 3 IdMaxes and 8 amps on a 3/4 baffle.
> 
> Damn you guys I wanted to turbo before the suspension work.


I'm on Tein Basics, been on them for over 4 years now, no leaks. 

The rubber booting does rip easily though, so if you're in an area where it snows rusting does become an issue.

But I'm here in good ol' San Antone, so no rusting for me.

And just an FYI guys, even with heavy ass equipment...
Its just not enough of a drop on the Accord. lol. The wheel gap is ridiculous to say the least. I'm dropped almost 4" in front and I'm barely tucking!


----------



## cvjoint

I remember I was able to slide my entire hand flat in that wheel well. Couldn't believe the talk on the street was finger gaps...Accord introduces the hand gaps  

Nice to hear the Basics are holding up. Any clunking noise? Sorry about the negative questions but these help the most


----------



## ThisWasAndy

cvjoint said:


> I remember I was able to slide my entire hand flat in that wheel well. Couldn't believe the talk on the street was finger gaps...Accord introduces the hand gaps
> 
> Nice to hear the Basics are holding up. Any clunking noise? Sorry about the negative questions but these help the most


No clunking noises other than my wheels hitting the wheelwell sometimes.

I'm dropped down all the way in front. The ride is actually smooth. I do feel the potholes though, but thats due the the 19"s. 18's look good w/ the Teins as well. Here is my old wheel setup:











Ended up getting in an accident; some dumb lady made a uturn right in front of me, pushing my car into a curb destroying 2 of the wheels.

So I upgraded.

If you're going Turbo I'd say invest in the SS as they're pretty much just like the basics but you can adjust the height and dampening rather than just height alone.

I noticed a lot of guys with 6th gens going with ksport coilovers right now as well.


----------



## ArcL100

God, last I checked, it's a ****ing Accord. It's nothing sexy - it's what Johnny average drives to get to work and home. Quit wasting money on it. You can drop it, rim it, turbo it, whatever, but at the end of the day it's a car for middle America, and won't ditch that image.

I love your stereo work, but don't agree with your modding plans.

-aaron


----------



## cvjoint

ThisWasAndy said:


> Ended up getting in an accident; some dumb lady made a uturn right in front of me, pushing my car into a curb destroying 2 of the wheels.
> 
> So I upgraded.
> 
> If you're going Turbo I'd say invest in the SS as they're pretty much just like the basics but you can adjust the height and dampening rather than just height alone.
> 
> I noticed a lot of guys with 6th gens going with ksport coilovers right now as well.


That's pretty much my way of upgrading things as well. I bought the car with bent rims so I upgraded. The cd player overheated easily and skipped for all sorts of reasons so I upgraded. There is something about fixing what is broken and dedication that simply can't be replaced. That's something a new high tag car will never give you.

I can't justify spending almost twice as much for the SS with the EDFC controller. The flexibility allowed by it is far too small from what I heard. The reason I haven't changed the suspension so far is because it still works beautifully with an overweight chassis and 120,000miles on the odo. I will definitely take a look at the ksport. I just need something a little stiffer on the rear to get rid of the understeer.



ArcL100 said:


> God, last I checked, it's a ****ing Accord. It's nothing sexy - it's what Johnny average drives to get to work and home. Quit wasting money on it. You can drop it, rim it, turbo it, whatever, but at the end of the day it's a car for middle America, and won't ditch that image.
> 
> I love your stereo work, but don't agree with your modding plans.
> 
> -aaron


Ahh ...but it's the image I couldn't care less about. I like the idea of shaping a car to my needs and taste. I think Chad said it the best, it is a 'timeless' design. With so many aftermarket parts it's a shame not to build something unique, that's what the audio setup is all about too. Home audio will always give you better results so why are you into car audio, for inferior results?

What's wrong with middle America?

My dream car will rise from a junkyard


----------



## cvjoint

Kickpanel Update No. II

I covered up as much as I could out of the car. I used masking tape of two kinds, the so called window tape (blue) and the budget one (beige). Needless to say the blue one is more expensive for a very good reason. It does not strip in infinitely many strips and it does not peal off the leather off my seats. I used painter's plastic to cover the rest of the front cabin where the glass was not laid. 



















I was quite astonished how fast I've come to work with fiber. I laid the bottom of both kicks in 3 hours. I used the xtra thick fiber on this, boat grade, thin mat on one side, thick sewn fibers on the back. I used 4 layers with half gallon of resin. 



















I made the baffles out of 1/2 inch MDF for rigidity purposes on the mid and to give the Neo 8 more breathing space than before. I used resin and a 1/4 MDF board to make the enclosure for the BG Neo. I decided to make the woofer rings elongated on two ends to give the fiber enough surface area to adhere to in the places where I have clearance to do so. I then inserted the T-Nuts on the back for both baffles.



















I took the mold out of the kickpanel area. A little pulling and crow bar lifting... I then dremeled for a few hours the excess fat and started putting together the monster. I used a hot glue gun and wooden dowels to hold the baffles in place. The aiming was thought out before hand and with 3 speakers there isn't too much flexibility. The mids are off axis as they would be in a door. The planars and ribbons are aimed at the domelight.


----------



## dbTroy

Are you going to keep the kickpanels sealed or will you vent them out the back? I have had my mids mounted in kickpanels before and they were aimed to the opposite headrest. I have them in my doors right now and I am thinking seriously about building some more kicks because they had a much more dynamic sound to them being more on axis.

Yours look great so far!


----------



## cvjoint

dbTroy said:


> Are you going to keep the kickpanels sealed or will you vent them out the back? I have had my mids mounted in kickpanels before and they were aimed to the opposite headrest. I have them in my doors right now and I am thinking seriously about building some more kicks because they had a much more dynamic sound to them being more on axis.
> 
> Yours look great so far!


I am going sealed with them. The main goal is to get rid of unwanted resonances in a controlled sealed environment. I got tired of playing midrange in a metal and glass leaky enclosure. I don't need a large sealed box, the 10s in the door take care of all the bass.

On axis sounds better when you cross your mid really high in the beaming range. Going 3 way will allow you more flexibility in midbass mounting.


----------



## BigRed

you're frickin nutz man!!! In a good way


----------



## cvjoint

Kickpanel Update III

First time to use speaker grille cloth to wrap. I gotta say, it's gotta be the best material to use. It soaks up just enough resin without being too flaky like fleece. It stretches really nice which is a big plus for curvaceous kicks.



















I applied resin to it and waited to dry. I then trimmed some of it around the speaker opening and used some screws to make sure it sticks to the wood baffles. 



















I went ahead and glassed it. I used some cheap left over Bondo to smoothen the shape.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Might be a little to late now, but are you sure an 8" will sound good anywhere around 200Hz in an enclosure that size? Seems like a 6.5 could pull of 200Hz and still hang output wise with the 10". Just a thought of course.


----------



## BigRed

anything smaller and he would be demoted from being the "SEAS BEAST"! A title he holds quite proudly


----------



## cvjoint

t3sn4f2 said:


> Might be a little to late now, but are you sure an 8" will sound good anywhere around 200Hz in an enclosure that size? Seems like a 6.5 could pull of 200Hz and still hang output wise with the 10". Just a thought of course.


That is a very very valid concern! Initially I wanted to use the 8 down to 125hz but I ran into box resonance problems. The driver kick came in at 8.050 liters and the passenger one at 7.750 all after bracing and the Neo 8 enclosure displacement, but I didn't take into account any of the other drivers. I poured resin to fill the driver one to 7.750 l to be equal. I imagine after driver displacement (w22 and lcy) I have a little under 7 liters left, I could not find exact W22 basket displacement, any input greatly appreciated. 

Modeling the w22 in a 7 liter box gave me a resonance figure around 95hz or so empty and 88hz stuffed with polyfil. I thought it would be an issue since it's outside of the played frequency but the modeling showed me about a 2.75db gain at 125hz due to box resonance witch I wasn't so happy about. No better way to know than to play them. Nevertheless, there was noticeable enclosure resonance that made the bottom midrange very dirty. I tried 160hz cutoff with decent results, 200hz was just perfect. I can't detect any box resonance at this cutoff point. It is more than an octave above the resonance point. The software shows me a little less than 1 db gain from the box at this frequency. Overall in theory this speaker now puts out 200hz to 1000hz +- 1db.

The alternative would have been of course to keep my W18EX but dropped it for a few reasons. While at 1w/1m the two show similar sensitivity, I think that at high volumes the 8 inch cone does a heck of a better job sensitivity wise. Keep in mind both of these drivers W18ex and W22 use the same magnet on a different cone = high qts w22 and low qts w18. The 7 would require some eq. down bellow to play flat while the w22 requires none. 

Output is a huge issue to me. My mids have always been the weakest link, think how much material there is in that frequency region. I've overheated the VC on almost any mid I've had (haven't blown any though  ) VC cooling is what's about since I keep my mids well within mechanical limits. With that being said this mid actually hangs with the 10 quite well, with the mid approaching cooling limits when the 10 starts going out of linear range crossed at 56hz. Perfect match imo. 

I could also IB the kicks, I checked out the metal sheet and it could be easily done, but I love the controlled midrange environment, no resonance to bother me, silky smooth.



BigRed said:


> anything smaller and he would be demoted from being the "SEAS BEAST"! A title he holds quite proudly


It can be quite the kitty when you put some of that Diana Krall in


----------



## t3sn4f2

cvjoint said:


> That is a very very valid concern! Initially I wanted to use the 8 down to 125hz but I ran into box resonance problems. The driver kick came in at 8.050 liters and the passenger one at 7.750 all after bracing and the Neo 8 enclosure displacement, but I didn't take into account any of the other drivers. I poured resin to fill the driver one to 7.750 l to be equal. I imagine after driver displacement (w22 and lcy) I have a little under 7 liters left, I could not find exact W22 basket displacement, any input greatly appreciated.
> 
> Modeling the w22 in a 7 liter box gave me a resonance figure around 95hz or so empty and 88hz stuffed with polyfil. I thought it would be an issue since it's outside of the played frequency but the modeling showed me about a 2.75db gain at 125hz due to box resonance witch I wasn't so happy about. No better way to know than to play them. Nevertheless, there was noticeable enclosure resonance that made the bottom midrange very dirty. I tried 160hz cutoff with decent results, 200hz was just perfect. I can't detect any box resonance at this cutoff point. It is more than an octave above the resonance point. The software shows me a little less than 1 db gain from the box at this frequency. Overall in theory this speaker now puts out 200hz to 1000hz +- 1db.
> 
> The alternative would have been of course to keep my W18EX but dropped it for a few reasons. While at 1w/1m the two show similar sensitivity, I think that at high volumes the 8 inch cone does a heck of a better job sensitivity wise. Keep in mind both of these drivers W18ex and W22 use the same magnet on a different cone = high qts w22 and low qts w18. The 7 would require some eq. down bellow to play flat while the w22 requires none.
> 
> Output is a huge issue to me. My mids have always been the weakest link, think how much material there is in that frequency region. I've overheated the VC on almost any mid I've had (haven't blown any though  ) VC cooling is what's about since I keep my mids well within mechanical limits. With that being said this mid actually hangs with the 10 quite well, with the mid approaching cooling limits when the 10 starts going out of linear range crossed at 56hz. Perfect match imo.
> 
> I could also IB the kicks, I checked out the metal sheet and it could be easily done, but I love the controlled midrange environment, no resonance to bother me, silky smooth.
> 
> 
> 
> It can be quite the kitty when you put some of that Diana Krall in


Damn I'm blind, it didn't look that big to me from the pictures :blush:. Thanks for the inf. though.


----------



## cvjoint

Final kickpanel update 

I decided to wrap the kicks in vinyl. Since the kicks are so prone to being stepped on I didn't think suede would last too long. Couple that with the inability to clean it and vinyl is not such a bad idea. I used spring clip connectors for all the speakers, at 50 cents/piece I though it was a steal. These are much easier to use in tight spaces than the 5 way binding posts and take up no enclosure space whatsoever. 



















Final product!


----------



## ArcL100

Sweet man!

-aaron


----------



## Megalomaniac

did you pour milkshake inside to seal it up?


----------



## ///Audience

Man after seeing the pics of the SoCal meet, ive been wanting to see more pics of these kicks. They look great man


----------



## cvjoint

Thanks guys. I am thinking of using some grilles that are not so obstructive. There is also some baffle work that needs to be done. After all that I'll throw these suckers on the RTA and see what's up.

Nothing too soon though, school is keeping me busy now. 

I'm not sure why the inside got that white look to it. I dremeled a bunch of glass to make the drivers flush but I vacuumed and cleaned and cleaned.


----------



## cvjoint

I took a picture after the audio setup so you can see how much the gap has closed from the first pic. I think it is the equivalent of a mild drop, like a sport kit.










I made the first attempt to design the courtesy lights. Long story short I f$%^&d up. The glue sipped in the suede. The design also came a lot uglier than I imagined. It looks too flowery for my taste.




























Now the million dollar question: What does this symbol mean? And no u don't get a million dollars for knowing but you will shock me.


----------



## Megalomaniac

Flower Power?


----------



## Bluto Blutarsky

Element


----------



## Thumper26

red hot chili peppers?


----------



## jj_diamond

cvjoint said:


> I took a picture after the audio setup so you can see how much the gap has closed from the first pic. I think it is the equivalent of a mild drop, like a sport kit.


 
nice. looks way better than the first pic. i would have chosen the race kit. but i like my cars in the weeds.


----------



## chongl

Hey CVjoint! I didn't know you were on these boards (It's accord boi from Honduh)? I was on ECA for a long time before finally registering here.

Good to see you and your setup!


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> Flower Power?


That's what it came out to be not what I intended. Try again 



Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Element


Very hot, very hot! Elaborate more



Thumper26 said:


> red hot chili peppers?


 not hot at all



jj_diamond said:


> nice. looks way better than the first pic. i would have chosen the race kit. but i like my cars in the weeds.


That's no sports kit, I said equivalent. If I were to front mount 3 more IdMaxes maybe I would get the race look



chongl said:


> Hey CVjoint! I didn't know you were on these boards (It's accord boi from Honduh)? I was on ECA for a long time before finally registering here.
> 
> Good to see you and your setup!


Sweet! I miss the Honduh times the only mature car enthusiast site that I know of. I've been true to DIYMA ever since Honduh went down. I'm getting back into tuning lately. Stick around I will have some saucy pictures coming up.

Welcome to the forum! You will absolutely fall in love with these people and car audio the way it should be.


----------



## DonutHands

Looks so much better not painted blue.


----------



## Thumper26

element skateboard logo?


----------



## cvjoint

internecine said:


> Looks so much better not painted blue.


Thank you sir. I love the intimate, cozy feeling suede gives too.



Thumper26 said:


> element skateboard logo?


Getting colder  Go back to element, a different kind of element.


----------



## chad

cvjoint said:


> Getting colder  Go back to element, a different kind of element.


Honda Element?


----------



## chongl

Snow??


----------



## chad

chongl said:


> Snow??


QFT Right here!!!!!

7th post

Located in Orlando

Used the word _SNOW_


----------



## cvjoint

chad said:


> Honda Element?





chongl said:


> Snow??


LOL both very funny. First one just as off as the skateboard. Second is the closest so far.

No clues yet, I have faith in you guys.


----------



## cvjoint

chad said:


> QFT Right here!!!!!
> 
> 7th post
> 
> Located in Orlando
> 
> Used the word _SNOW_


Wtf Chad! I busted laughing at work in my empty office room. Passer bys must have been truly shocked.


----------



## chongl

chad said:


> QFT Right here!!!!!
> 
> 7th post
> 
> Located in Orlando
> 
> Used the word _SNOW_


I grew up in Socal and moved here last year for work...planning to go back soon


----------



## chad

chongl said:


> I grew up in Socal and moved here last year for work...planning to go back soon


Hell I'd go anywhere right now where I was not freezing my ass off!


----------



## Thumper26

tell me this has nothing to do with the movie the 5th element...


----------



## jj_diamond

cvjoint said:


> "Originally Posted by *Bluto Blutarsky*
> _Element"_
> 
> Very hot, very hot! Elaborate more


Magnesium


----------



## cvjoint

jj_diamond said:


> Magnesium


Right on the money! It is the most common sign the alchemists used for magnesium. I wanted something to resemble my love for the Seas Excel magnesium cones. 

To be honest I didn't think people would ever guess it. Are you a chemist by any chance?


----------



## thehatedguy

I like the logo in the door...looks a lot better than the raw plexi.

So, how much better has the sound gotten with putting the speakers in better locations?


----------



## cvjoint

thehatedguy said:


> I like the logo in the door...looks a lot better than the raw plexi.
> 
> So, how much better has the sound gotten with putting the speakers in better locations?


Thanks guy! I didn't plan on keeping the plexi nude. I'm not so sure how to cover it now. I'm open to suggestions. It's a shame the Mag symbol didn't come out as hot stuff, I think it would have been a good idea rather than throwing some brand name on there. 

The sound is much much better than I ever had from any point of view. Stage hight might be about the same as the LCY on the dash but the rest...

The depth is amazing with the mids in the kicks and the midrange is neutral. No more irritating frequencies. It's getting harder and harder to pick favorite songs to display the setup, everything sounds equally good. 

There is no power compression at high volumes which is a bit misleading when abusing the volume knob. I end up with some serious ear fatigue and find myself setting a volume target to prevent it from happening. I don't know what loud is until I can't hear my cellphone ring!

The midbass resolution is squeaky clean. The door is so tough, the midbass is wholesome and gives my tunes a thick feel. It does a wonderful job at covering the road noise and contributes to a captivating stage. 

I would describe the total experience as detailed, accurate, wholesome and brutal when you want it to be. 

The downsides are very few: I can still feel a metal shrill from the ribbons on some songs. I'm hypothesizing the lower dash piece reflections have a lot to do with it. I'm hoping I can eventually tune it to disappear like a soft dome. I'm also debating whether I should IB the kicks, there is a theoretical 1 db gain from box resonance I'm not to happy about.


----------



## thehatedguy

Well dude it makes me happy that you went back to the basics with speaker locations (though a 4 way front stage isn't "basic" by any means...lol) and it has been a great improvement for you. I hope you now understand where I was coming from a while back with the speaker placement stuff.

And 3 Maxes IB in the trunk..been there, know how that goes .

Good job dude, keep it up!


----------



## pwnt by pat

those kicks turned out really well

where are the in-the-car shots?


----------



## cvjoint

thehatedguy said:


> Well dude it makes me happy that you went back to the basics with speaker locations (though a 4 way front stage isn't "basic" by any means...lol) and it has been a great improvement for you. I hope you now understand where I was coming from a while back with the speaker placement stuff.
> 
> And 3 Maxes IB in the trunk..been there, know how that goes .
> 
> Good job dude, keep it up!


Well 4 way also means 3 way and 2 way I can always play around with them  



pwnt by pat said:


> those kicks turned out really well
> 
> where are the in-the-car shots?


They're coming. Actually I forgot to take them


----------



## chongl

Hmm...I had some questions since we have the same car. Right now my tweets are at the top of my doors near the side mirrors and my mids are in the stock locations. The sound stage seems to be chin or shoulder level. How would I bring it up...is it possible just from EQ/Tuning? And same thing goes for people with kick panels/tweeters down at the feet, how do they get the soundstage up so high?

I was thinking of moving the tweets to the A-pillar but did some reading and people were concerned about reflections off the dash and windshield?

Just trying to learn! Thanks!


----------



## cvjoint

chongl said:


> Hmm...I had some questions since we have the same car. Right now my tweets are at the top of my doors near the side mirrors and my mids are in the stock locations. The sound stage seems to be chin or shoulder level. How would I bring it up...is it possible just from EQ/Tuning? And same thing goes for people with kick panels/tweeters down at the feet, how do they get the soundstage up so high?
> 
> I was thinking of moving the tweets to the A-pillar but did some reading and people were concerned about reflections off the dash and windshield?
> 
> Just trying to learn! Thanks!


There are various ways to lift the sound stage, some fantastic tricks and some not so great. 

The bulletproof way is to simply install some tweeters or imaging drivers around ear level = a-pillars in our cars. Like you said reflections become a problem and IMO not worth to deal with them in our cars. A better way to go about it which I've seen implemented in Kevin.K's Accord is to mount tweeters on dash facing up. This way the majority of sound gets reflected off the windshield somewhere close to ear level. I prefer full reflected sound over semi reflected & semi direct radiating any day. 

One of the tricks is to boost some frequencies in the treble range. Imo this leaves not so desirable results in tonality which negate any benefits in my book. Then there is that stage lifting piece of software that Werewolf hinted at a few times which seems to use some eq. manipulation of some sort. With kicks the trick is all in the aiming and the driver used.

Do keep in mind that SQ. is not all defined by stage height nor simply by staging cues and arguably these should come last. There is tonality, distortion performance, proper baffle build, minimizing panel vibration, combating road noise, and realistic output to boot. 

Personally overly "tuned" cars all in hopes of nailing the stage don't impress me much.


----------



## thrty8street

wow how much did you spend?


----------



## cvjoint

thrty8street said:


> wow how much did you spend?


Good question!


----------



## Megalomaniac

How about buying a dash mat, if the dash reflection concerns you cvjoint?


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> How about buying a dash mat, if the dash reflection concerns you cvjoint?


A dash mat would sit on the dash which arguably does very little for kickmounted speakers. I was thinking of covering the lower part of the dash in suede, and maybe dressing the kicks in suede for a better match. I think I will tame some of the underdash reflections with some convoluted acustic foam while I'm at it.

Oh. and yeah I hate dash mats. They are about the ugliest thing I could do to my car. When in need cover it in totality with fabric. Dash mat is a bit of an afterthought solution. It's like a layer that pealed off at the edges. Yuck.


----------



## cvjoint

Here are a few pics of everything working together. Sorry about the picture quality, my windows are tinted so I don't get enough ambient light and the the sun was right in my camera.


----------



## Thumper26

cool work, but i'd feel awfully cramped driving.

does your leg not seriously block some output on those ribbons?


----------



## jj_diamond

cvjoint said:


> Right on the money! It is the most common sign the alchemists used for magnesium. I wanted something to resemble my love for the Seas Excel magnesium cones.
> 
> To be honest I didn't think people would ever guess it. Are you a chemist by any chance?


not any more, per say  . my g/f just finished taking chemistry though...hehe.


----------



## BigRed

when are you putting the ID 12's in the floor? I have a sawzall!


----------



## cvjoint

Thumper26 said:


> cool work, but i'd feel awfully cramped driving.
> 
> does your leg not seriously block some output on those ribbons?


The only space I lost was the dead pedal. I go around that by sliding my foot underneath the clutch on long freeway drivers or just resting my knee on the door. It doesn't feel cramped at all. In traffic I have to hold my foot on the clutch anyways.

The only time when the ribbon gets blocked is when the car if full and some 6.3+ guy has to keep his seat forward. Otherwise only half of the Neo 8 and half of the mid gets blocked.

Imagine there is 10 inches of Neo 8 height before you even get to the LCY faceplate. A hole foot before you reach the ribbon element. It is right where the heel would naturally sit on the floor. You need some serious Eskimo shoes to cover them.



jj_diamond said:


> not any more, per say  . my g/f just finished taking chemistry though...hehe.


Ahh I see I've been the easy target of team work. I feel like I shouldn't have said element 



BigRed said:


> when are you putting the ID 12's in the floor? I have a sawzall!


Hey, not everybody has 8 feet of clearance under the floorboard like you. My Accord is actually going to get lowered sometime soon.


----------



## cvjoint

Here are some pics showing the mounting screws. There are 6 total, three front three back. I don't think I can use the beauty covers on all the screws on the far side of the door. Not enough clearance and the angle is off anyways, not flat like the upper front ones.


----------



## Megalomaniac

um can i send you money to do my door?


----------



## Whiterabbit

what car do you drive? is it a 2 door honda accord or civic?


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> um can i send you money to do my door?


It would have to be like 4 figures  

Honestly, it's so exhausting it will keep me from buying cars too often.


----------



## Megalomaniac

Whiterabbit said:


> what car do you drive? is it a 2 door honda accord or civic?


i drive a 4 door cord(6th gen) if you are asking me


----------



## Whiterabbit

are your doors the same as found on a 2 door 2001 accord? or are they shorter?


----------



## Megalomaniac

Whiterabbit said:


> are your doors the same as found on a 2 door 2001 accord? or are they shorter?


shorter i think.


----------



## cvjoint

Your doors are much shorter. I think your limiter factor is still the sheet metal. You can only cut so much. I would have to go with a neo motor if I wanted a 12 in there as the magnet would hit the window moving assembly. I could gain a bunch of mounting depth by building the door out. It's not my style but it will give you a better driver selection.


----------



## Megalomaniac

I dont need any big mids like yours. i probally would do a 7" sdx7 from css and build out some to create a little pod.


----------



## cvjoint

What you might want to do is just rebuild the lower half of the door then. Much much less work. Some of the Accord owners on this site built those.


----------



## vinnymack

Yummy dynamics


----------



## cvjoint

I've finally got the courage to design my courtesy lights again. This time I didn't screw up:



















I can't wait to change those LEDs with the difractor ones Chad recommended.


----------



## hooptiesaregreat

cvjoint said:


> Here are a few pics of everything working together. Sorry about the picture quality, my windows are tinted so I don't get enough ambient light and the the sun was right in my camera.


Wow, how the hell do you drive stick like that! hahaha, you're a trooper!


----------



## cvjoint

hooptiesaregreat said:


> Wow, how the hell do you drive stick like that! hahaha, you're a trooper!


ehhh it's manageable 

I was demoing my new clutch and short shifter on some twisties the other weekend and the stinkin' kickpanel started to attack my foot. I will definitely need to fasten those to the chassis 

I am working on some unobtrusive grilles, but honestly I tend to risk it especially since I get better performance that way, more legroom (the grille will take up some room) and better looks. The speakers are flush mounted anyways, plus they have that phase plug that helps a bit against denting.


----------



## xanderin

First off I'd like to say your install is very clean and ill definitely be looking at it when I update the components in my 02 4dr Accord. I don't think I will use the kickpanel tho. My size 13's don't have much space down there and it is an automatic. Why did you decide to go with a ribbon tweeter? How did you completely seal the trunk off?? Did you weld in a wall?


----------



## SQ_Eleanor

Covering the fiberglass with a vinyl that matches the interior would make it blend and help acoustically, as well, with stray reflections. I was suprised when i went to a local fabric store to see how many selections there are. 3M spray glue for the win.


----------



## Dmack

I would have to have some grills on those kicks. I would kick the hell out of those.


----------



## cvjoint

xanderin said:


> First off I'd like to say your install is very clean and ill definitely be looking at it when I update the components in my 02 4dr Accord. I don't think I will use the kickpanel tho. My size 13's don't have much space down there and it is an automatic. Why did you decide to go with a ribbon tweeter? How did you completely seal the trunk off?? Did you weld in a wall?


I think kicks are killer for our cars. If you use a 5 inch mid you can mount it on axis about 1 foot farther than I got mine to be! If I were to do it all over again I would try to get on axis mounting. I had to try this method to see how worthy it is. You can vent in the chassis with our cars.  

The trunk setup uses dual 3/4MDF boards mounted to the chassis and sealed off with expanding foam. I am removing the rear speakers as they are quite the impediment to IB.



SQ_Eleanor said:


> Covering the fiberglass with a vinyl that matches the interior would make it blend and help acoustically, as well, with stray reflections. I was suprised when i went to a local fabric store to see how many selections there are. 3M spray glue for the win.


The doors are wrapped in suede and the kicks are wrapped in vinyl. Are you looking at the old pics at the beginning?



Dmack said:


> I would have to have some grills on those kicks. I would kick the hell out of those.


Ehh...I got used to them. I am trained to deny myself the dead pedal. I could also rest my leg a bit against the kick in between the tweeters and mid.


----------



## entrophy

Haha I see you took the photo of your car at mission viejo mall, I live 5 minutes from there. Quick question if it hasn't been asked already, what do you have your car deadened with, if at all?


----------



## uptown4784

How much did speakers cost?


----------



## cvjoint

uptown4784 said:


> How much did speakers cost?


Well, bought them all at least 6 months ago in the good ole days when the dollar had balls. It's all under $2500 or so. Hard earned and saved money.



entrophy said:


> Haha I see you took the photo of your car at mission viejo mall, I live 5 minutes from there. Quick question if it hasn't been asked already, what do you have your car deadened with, if at all?


Well no, it's the Palm Desert Mall. I see how they all look the same though.
I used 2 bulk Dynamat Extreme boxes, 5 expanding foam sprays, convoluted acoustic foam etc. There are some door building pics if you want to look though the past pages.


----------



## cvjoint

Oh yeah, here is the update with the new drivers installed:

Vifa MA 26 with 1/2 MDF spacer










IB Kicks



























Listening impressions:
Seas w26 vs Vifa ma26
Vifa's suspension is noticeably stiffer than the Seas'. Midbass has oodles of impact and the suspension hardly stresses under load. While the xmax is a bit lower the overall output is perceivably higher and there is no sign of compression like there was with the Seas when run hard. With the Seas xmax runs out about the same time the VC reaches its limits. The Vifa shows no signs of VC stress when xmax is reached. My best guess is a 2db gain in output over the Seas.
As far as timber and overall sound characteristics the Seas is realistic, smooth, and transparent. Nothing to complain about here. The Vifa is a bit more dull and I'm hoping that's not going to be true after break in. It's a bit uptight and it looses transparency when run hard.

B&C NDL51 vs Seas W22
I was not too impressed with the higher efficiency in the PA driver. I was expecting to be blown away with output at low input wattage. The 6db difference in efficiency was hard to depict. I was happy to find out that the B&C kept its cool as more power was thrown at it. Past 100db the B&C is easily more pleasant to listen to over the Seas. I have yet to see this mid stress. I found my house music to sound at home with the PA drivers, relaxed and robust with plenty of overhead. I was so in love with the high output capability that I took out two of my sub amps and used them for midrange duty giving each driver 350w @ 8 ohms. I love it!
I'm in a conflict stat as I do not have a clear preference for any of these drivers. The W22 detail is sure gone. I miss the hair splitting transparency of the magnesium cone. In a home audio setup I would have no trade-offs with a line array of W22 but in a car environment the PA drivers have clear advantages. The treated paper cone is well damped and easily plays less than perfect music with infinite output to boot.

The Seas drivers have a degree of realism above all else. The PA composure offers some benefits with low quality music and output on both Vifa and B&C satisfy tremendously. I find myself loving the tacky sound of the Vifa midbass from now and then too which makes my choice even harder.

I will continue to run these for at least two more months to make up my mind.
__________________


----------



## entrophy

cvjoint said:


> Well, bought them all at least 6 months ago in the good ole days when the dollar had balls. It's all under $2500 or so. Hard earned and saved money.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no, it's the Palm Desert Mall. I see how they all look the same though.
> I used 2 bulk Dynamat Extreme boxes, 5 expanding foam sprays, convoluted acoustic foam etc. There are some door building pics if you want to look though the past pages.



Doh the malls look alike! (especially the parking structure). 
I'll go and check the previous pages.


----------



## BigRed

nice write-up George. can't wait to hear it 

question: any way you can line the mdf spacer with suede? just a thought.

I still say 15's in the door FTW!!!


----------



## cvjoint

The MDF spacer is purely functional. I have another pair of 10s in the making that might displace the Vifa's so I'm not into decorations just yet.

I hope you do take a listen at the meet, I love the all blacks


----------



## vactor

so what's the good word CV? i see u selling some stuff, that MUST mean new goodies are going in  inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## cvjoint

vactor said:


> so what's the good word CV? i see u selling some stuff, that MUST mean new goodies are going in  inquiring minds want to know!


Well...I have these new Scan Speak SD1 Kevlar 8s that I'm going to try in the kicks for midrange duty.  Future ideas are the Eaton 8s, and Seas Nextel 8s.

10s are more difficult, I'm looking for some custom sized magnets right now. Dow n the road I'd like to try the Peerless xxls 10, and the Scan Revelator 10s.

Be free to recommend anything worth trying. At this point I'm just having fun with it. Depth is a restriction like always, no more than 5 inches on the 10 or 4 inches on the 8.


----------



## Megalomaniac

not sure if you care. the new Stereo Integrity BM 10 can be used as a mid all the way up to 1khz. might be worth a glance. very shallow too.


----------



## bassfromspace

cvjoint said:


> Well...I have these new Scan Speak SD1 Kevlar 8s that I'm going to try in the kicks for midrange duty.  Future ideas are the Eaton 8s, and Seas Nextel 8s.
> 
> 10s are more difficult, I'm looking for some custom sized magnets right now. Dow n the road I'd like to try the Peerless xxls 10, and the Scan Revelator 10s.
> 
> Be free to recommend anything worth trying. At this point I'm just having fun with it. Depth is a restriction like always, no more than 5 inches on the 10 or 4 inches on the 8.



Can you remove your kicks and take pics of how you IB'd the drivers?


----------



## cvjoint

Megalomaniac said:


> not sure if you care. the new Stereo Integrity BM 10 can be used as a mid all the way up to 1khz. might be worth a glance. very shallow too.


I will definitely take a look! In my experience the midbass needs to be real beefy, voice coil and air displacement wise, these seem to be good for that. I always wanted to try out the SI Mags too.



bassfromspace said:


> Can you remove your kicks and take pics of how you IB'd the drivers?


I might have some pics for that, they're not the prettiest but function wins over form


----------



## Megalomaniac

cvjoint said:


> I will definitely take a look! In my experience the midbass needs to be real beefy, voice coil and air displacement wise, these seem to be good for that. I always wanted to try out the SI Mags too.


im sorry, i mis"spoke" its not a 10" its a 12"



SI said:


> The new BM will be available in 12" only.
> It will also be available in dual 4 Ohm vc configuration only.
> 
> Recommended sealed enclosure volume is 0.5 cubic feet.*
> 
> The enclosure recommendation is after driver displacement. The new BM will displace ~0.07 ft^3
> 
> 2.5" VC
> XBL^2 equipped motor
> 3.5" mounting depth
> Motor housed inside the basket
> Aluminum shorting ring
> The cone will be a rohacel core sandwiched between two layers of Nomex
> Inverted foam surround for maximum clearance
> Flush gasket (no holes showing)
> 500 watt power handling (read, power handling, NOT a power requirement. The new BM will be happy with anything from 200 watts to 500 watts)


----------



## cvjoint

That's really neat, I haven't seen a shallow mount xbl2 driver before. Fortunately I got a bit of space for the subs, I'm going with two 15s and selling my 3 IdMaxes. I'm afraid the 12" size is not going to come into play again for quite some time in my setup. I pick such odd sizes...


----------



## Megalomaniac

You see that civic with ns15s? it was built by Req for another member named Dtour


----------



## cvjoint

Nope. Link? Initially I wanted to do one ns18, but price and reviews waren't too glorious. After some pondering I came up with a more compact, more powerful A/C cooled design for my next sub setup. The 15s are on the way!


----------



## Megalomaniac

cvjoint said:


> Nope. Link? Initially I wanted to do one ns18, but price and reviews waren't too glorious. After some pondering I came up with a more compact, more powerful A/C cooled design for my next sub setup. The 15s are on the way!


looks like you have seen it, you posted in that thread
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18026&highlight=aura


----------



## cvjoint

OH duh...I have seen that before. That's basically the setup I run now with different drivers. I'm sure those Auras are pure sex, but the depth no longer fits my plan. My next setup is going to bend the rules for IB, it's going to be down firing.


----------



## trailz516

Doors looks good. How do those id maxes sound?


----------



## cvjoint

IdMaxes sound really good. I love the fact that they are high output, high sensitivity and are optimized for the trunk of a car. Excursion is cleaner than most car audio subs, although I've used more transparent drivers before such as the Peerless XLS or Infinity Kappa Perfect.


----------



## cvjoint

Here is a couple of pics of the chassis venting job. What you see are two 2.1/4 holes that I use to vent the kicks. It was a day long ordeal unfortunately as cutting in metal wasn't as easy as it should have been. I now have dynamat lined inside the kick and though the hole in the chassis to form a perfect seal. The three 1/4 inch machine screws that hold the kicks attached to the chassis are also visible. An iron man couldn't pull these kicks out.


----------



## bassfromspace

cvjoint said:


> Here is a couple of pics of the chassis venting job. What you see are two 2.1/4 holes that I use to vent the kicks. It was a day long ordeal unfortunately as cutting in metal wasn't as easy as it should have been. I now have dynamat lined inside the kick and though the hole in the chassis to form a perfect seal. The three 1/4 inch machine screws that hold the kicks attached to the chassis are also visible. An iron man couldn't pull these kicks out.


Thanks for the pix!

Did you use a hole saw to cut those holes and did the holes allow for sufficient air flow for the midbass?

Thanks


----------



## amapro704

Cvjoint, you like bass and midbass


----------



## cvjoint

bassfromspace said:


> Thanks for the pix!
> 
> Did you use a hole saw to cut those holes and did the holes allow for sufficient air flow for the midbass?
> 
> Thanks


Well, here's the thing, the 8s in the kicks are actually used as midrange drivers. For the intended frequency 200hz up the venting did nothing perceivable. 63hz and up there was a minor improvement when I used the B&Cs in there. The defining factor remains kick resonance and reflections for the kicks, although I'm sure a 8" hole in the back would give you another small improvement. For my application even larger holes would just mean less chassis stiffness, and I plan to build my car for weekend races. 

I used a drill attachment that looked like a circular tooth with a drill bit guide.




amapro704 said:


> Cvjoint, you like bass and midbass


I like house music...nuff said. I believe in building a car for the type of music you are likely to listen too, very few setups can hold under this use, but yeah it's mostly midbass intensive.


----------



## amapro704

Uh I may get blasted for this one, but what is "house" music??


eeek


----------



## cvjoint

amapro704 said:


> Uh I may get blasted for this one, but what is "house" music??
> 
> 
> eeek


These are just a few of the guys who play house: John Digweed, James Zabiela, Satoshi Tomiie, Damien Lazarus, Pascal Feos. 

It is a genre under electronic music, not quite as BPM intensive as techno or trance. It's usually not vocal, and characterized my a slower, punchy, and melodic rhythm. Around the world and especially in U.S. house is the underground form of electronic music, it is often for the avid enthusiast culminating in minimal house - the Gregorian version of electro - very simple and technical. In LA, Avalon is the primary club hosting this type, but often on you'll see DJs 'spinning' it at Vanguard too. 

The learning curve goes as follows for electronic music: 
late 90s commercial trance ie Darude Sandstorm > contemporary trance ie. Paul Van **** and dance ie. Eric Perdyz > pure house > minimal house ie. Magda, Trentemoller.


----------



## SteveH!

hey cv joint , you ever hear of frankie knuckles?


----------



## cvjoint

SteveH! said:


> hey cv joint , you ever hear of frankie knuckles?


Yep, never seen live. Must be good right?


----------



## cvjoint

This is a little project that came to completion not to long ago. I stripped the seats down to see what's keeping 3db worth of output to come though. The stock sheet metal on the back of the seats hardly has any breathing potential for the IB setup. I decide to crop out about 2 ft2 of it too allow better flow. The remaining sheet metal has been reinforced with Dynamat Extreme to reduce rattles and regain the stiffness of the stock backing. 

Before:









After:









If I had to venture a guess I'd say 1-2db gain, but even larger gains come from the extra stiffness of the metal that now is no longer audibly vibrating. All in all it's totally worth the Sawsal treatment, just be careful not to cut though the seat as the blade gets easily trapped in the metal.


----------



## cvjoint

In order to maintain the tradition of updating my install bay every Christmas with a general overhaul of the setup:





























The updated drivers are as follows: Scan Speak 21w8554 for midrange use in the kicks and Peerless XXLS 10 for midbass duty in the doors. 

The Scans replaced the Seas Excel w22 mag cones. I decided to move away from metal cones and the king of low distortion and try other things that fit the design goal: low distortion 8 inch midrange. Naturally the Kevlar coned Scan driver being a first choice in _Linkwitz's Orion_ DIY floorstanders made my list. Among other drivers that I would like to try are the _Eaton honeycomb, Acutton cermics_, and a version of the slitted _Scan Revelator _that does not exist :cussing:. I'm really enjoying trying out different cone materials on midrange drivers.

In the midbass department the goal was to find a speaker that would give a theoretical 110db+ without overheating or mechanical damage. Unfortunately the 10 inch _Seas Excel _did both and needless to say every driver smaller than 10. The Peerless sure delivers, with the extra extra long stroke this driver is laughing at his midbass duties, first midbass ever to exceed my output specification, but then again it's the first subwoofer that I've used for this purpose. I needed to design a 3/4 spacer for fitment and proper functioning of the window. I used a special router bit to give it the round profile to 'hide' its plumpness. Initially I lacquered it, but later decided a flat black would work better at fitting in, and wood's not that sexy anymore.

I'm now going to slip in a few shots of my Momo gear:










And while I'm at it here is my new Acura CL Type S perforated leather steering wheel:










Nope not audio related at all.

Here is a part-night shot of my newly designed courtesy lights. Previously this was a Seas logo made from suede but since I have no more Seas drivers...











To be continued with the trunk setup...


----------



## veloze

Hey George, you sure are a SUPER NATURAL! :bowdown: That's one helluva of upgrade...man I'm really jealous. Perhaps, you could help me with some upgrades for my KISS Accord.


----------



## James Bang

It sounded great the last time I heard it George. I think it gave my ears multiple eargasms. The trunk looks awesome as well.


----------



## cvjoint

veloze said:


> Hey George, you sure are a SUPER NATURAL! :bowdown: That's one helluva of upgrade...man I'm really jealous. Perhaps, you could help me with some upgrades for my KISS Accord.


Ha ha I don't think you want to change much given your track record in the comp. world  The build is definitely past it's KISS stage, it takes no less than 8 hours to get it tunned from scratch with the MLS setup. Luckily changing drivers out requires next to no tunning at all. Install and car panel design makes the most difference...surprise :cheesy:



James Bang said:


> It sounded great the last time I heard it George. I think it gave my ears multiple eargasms. The trunk looks awesome as well.


You are one of the few that heard it since Marv's although I put some finishing touches on it akin to a completed setup like gasketing tape, foamed the last openings to the trunk and rolled dynamat over.


----------



## cvjoint

Showroom part 2 - the trunk

This time around I put emphasis on a practical install where I freed up storage room, ensured maximum cooling, made sure no fluids or sharp objects can touch the amplifiers, created on the fly access to spare tire and my "piece de resistance" I made my IB rack light and removable.



















I estimate up to 9 cubic feet of storage is still available. Cooling is assured though custom A/C runs. I dedicated one control panel A/C button for the amplifiers. It works wonders during 9 months out of the year here in So.Cal. and allowed me to fit the amps more compactly to free up room. 

The skeleton is constructed entirely out of ultralight MDF and weighs only 17 lbs with screws. It houses both 15" subs, 7 amps and the processor. With the equipment it comes in at 150 lbs, not bad for 8 channels of processing, 3kw of A/B power, and a healthy subwoofer setup. All the gear can be easily disconnected and put away if needed, I used Molex connectors and two sets of 4 ga power couplers. I'm not particularly thrilled with the Molex adapters and I would very much appreciate some pointers for a larger 15 plug wire quick disconnect that accepts 12ga cables. 

In this next pick you can see the right A/C duct and the DC converter. 










Left A/C duct. Notice all amplifiers have their fins in direct line with the air vents. The connection side is facing the cabin and is concealed by a beauty panel on top.


----------



## cvjoint

I put the finishing touches on the tunning and came out with this overall response:










I tested the FR starting at volume setting 12, 15,18, 21 on my Alpine respectively. I see no variation in the cone speaker region 1khz down with output, very solid regardless how loud I play it. The planars and ribbons showed quite a bit of variation. I don't know whether it is output related or because I didn't have exactly the same mic position. I think it might be the later, these drivers being very directional the FR varies more. It may also be related to the sound wave lenght and different frequencies bouncing off the panels.

Anyways, the graph shows a drop in FR as you go up in frequency. I seem to prefer this tunning model the best, slightly bassy but smooth enough to blend in. I could get it + - 4 db for a flat tune, but it will sound rather boring to me.


----------



## syd-monster

cvjoint said:


> I seem to prefer this tunning model the best, slightly bassy but smooth enough to blend in. I could get it + - 4 db for a flat tune, but it will sound rather boring to me.


:deal:... done! NIce. That fact that YOU like it.... extra prep points.


----------



## Megalomaniac

you are not very good at taking photos.  how about a general trunk shot where you can see everything and not just segments?

also a pic from behind the seats


----------



## amapro704

Megalomaniac said:


> how about a general trunk shot where you can see everything


sicko


----------



## cvjoint

Gee I'm just a poor guy with a cellphone camera. 
I'll try again just for you. In my defense our trunks don't have very generous openings. The fact that everything is carpeted makes it hard to see how the rack got in there. Let's see if the MDF gives a better idea for now:

17lbs frame:










I used some heavy duty insulation around where the frame meets that car chassis for a tight seal:










I had to design the trunk pass though on the sides so that it make a good fit with the frame. Doubled the MDF boards, metal L-plates, lots of expanding foam and screws in the chassis. I threaded machine screw nuts to later secure the amp rack. Notice I had to glue the bottom piece on the gas tank, can't drill there:










How the A/C made it to the trunk, lots of work. That is SPA grade 2 inch hose, hard to bend:










The quick disconnects, again I need a better harness than the .93 Molex, it's too small to house thick signal cables:










A monster conglomeration of monster cables:












So that was your entertainment until I try my luck at a photographer career.


----------



## cvjoint

Pictures from behind the seats as requested:


----------



## providius

first of all,hi george,we met last year when you came to oradea,i'm ovi sergiu-s friend with the opel zafira,about the car my only problem is i'm never going to hear it:laugh:since last year i'm watching this thread and keep wondering on it,i love it,it makes me wanna go 10 inch in doors every time i see yours.keep up the good work,i'm still regreting i didn't have the money when you posted the seas speakers.maybe another time when i'll be ready for un upgrade and you already donne it:laugh: ,but from what sergiu is telling me about your car i definetlly wolud love it.all the best from oradea and keep up,i'm


----------



## AdrianD

Intense setup 

Providius told me a couple times about it. 
Awesome work, wish I could experience something similar


----------



## cvjoint

providius said:


> first of all,hi george,we met last year when you came to oradea,i'm ovi sergiu-s friend with the opel zafira,about the car my only problem is i'm never going to hear it:laugh:since last year i'm watching this thread and keep wondering on it,i love it,it makes me wanna go 10 inch in doors every time i see yours.keep up the good work,i'm still regreting i didn't have the money when you posted the seas speakers.maybe another time when i'll be ready for un upgrade and you already donne it:laugh: ,but from what sergiu is telling me about your car i definetlly wolud love it.all the best from oradea and keep up,i'm





AdrianD said:


> Intense setup
> 
> Providius told me a couple times about it.
> Awesome work, wish I could experience something similar


Ha Ha I love you guys. You took the time to check out the site, while Sergiu is usually spoon fed with email pictures and a retyping off all this mess. He's such a douche (how would you even translate douche bag in Ro.? Need to scratch my head a little for that one :laugh

Ovi you are the first guy I saw beating the smack out of the L series Seas. I overheated coils before on them but when I came back I had to abuse mine until the glue gave out on them. Mersi...

I think the Ribbons, 8s,10s and the 15s are coming out in the summer. Start a savings plan now, and send Sergiu to fetch 'em!


----------



## cvjoint

It's been about 7 months so I think it's time for an update. I've recently posted my whole setup minus the AE subs on sale on the forum, the thread is here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/61946-selling-everything-w200-h701-7-polk-momo-amps-lcy-bg-8-scans-peerless.html

This summer is going to be a blast rebuilding the system from nearly scratch. There will be lots of Scan Speak premium drivers, Seas is making a comeback and most importantly I'll be trying to base all my processing on a carputer, details for that build in particular I will reserve on the initial carputer thread started here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/59143-help-me-design-carputer-take-down-bit-one-dsp-6-a.html

The car is going though a lot of major changes as well. Most importantly I've upgraded the engine to a Japanese spec H22A:
11.6:1 compression
2.156L DOHC VTEC 86mmx90.6 4 cylinder
200hp 161 lb/ft torque
Redline 7200rpm
This was Honda's muscle engine up until early 2000s and it was heavily used in motorsport.
Other goodies include oil squirters to reduce friction and dual runners for the intake manifold.










The dual Kinetic battery was replaced again by a single optima to save weight and be safely strapped down. I had many mechanics scared ****less at my connecting copper bars.

The engine has been tuned to produce 235 crank HP and 190lb/ft torque with the help of the AEM V2 intake, Hytech style header, metal substrate magnalfow catalytic converter, no less than 3 magnaflow resonators, and dual Apexi WS mufflers. Piping and install is all custom 3 inch mendrel bent stainless steel. Finally the car was professionally dyno tunned at Church Automotive using the Hondata S300 management. The redline has been lifted to 7500rpm.





































Dyno numbers:









With increased power there will be a need for increased braking force...










This summer I will try to tackle the braking fiasco by swapping to V6 hubs, slotted rotors, and though heavy use of carbon fiber and lightweight components, seats as well as a lighter car audio setup without a decrease in power or fidelity.


----------



## capnxtreme

Very cool. I followed Shawn Church's postings on vtec.net for years. One of the few I would trust with such a task.


----------



## syd-monster

cvjoint said:


> This summer I will try to tackle the braking fiasco by swapping to V6 hubs, slotted rotors, and though heavy use of carbon fiber and lightweight components, seats as well as a lighter car audio setup without a decrease in power or fidelity.


Thats quite a challange, but I like your thinking!! :idea3:
Should be good if you make it all happen, and from what weve seen, you certainly could.



(except for the carputer, :listenup: )


----------



## cvjoint

capnxtreme said:


> Very cool. I followed Shawn Church's postings on vtec.net for years. One of the few I would trust with such a task.


I've never been so pleased with a mechanic before. I showed up screwed by my swap shop. I got the Hondata from them and got it tuned in 2.5 hrs to the smoothest most powerful graph I've ever seen for an H22 with stock internals. I'm going back in the summer for more goodies.



syd-monster said:


> Thats quite a challange, but I like your thinking!! :idea3:
> Should be good if you make it all happen, and from what weve seen, you certainly could.
> 
> 
> 
> (except for the carputer, :listenup: )


Carputer is quite a feat, very slowly coming along.


----------



## IBcivic

awesome pipeworx
congrats on the newfound power and clean swap!


----------



## cubdenno

CV,

Have you looked at phoenix connectors. more indusrial for sure. We use them for pendandant cables for our hydraulic systems that are used in Steel mills (very unfriendly to equipment.) Let me know and I will get you info if you are still looking for a molex replacement.


----------



## cvjoint

stinky06 said:


> awesome pipeworx
> congrats on the newfound power and clean swap!


Once I powdercoat the head and intake and clean a bit it will be much nicer, for now it's just there to do the job he he



cubdenno said:


> CV,
> 
> Have you looked at phoenix connectors. more indusrial for sure. We use them for pendandant cables for our hydraulic systems that are used in Steel mills (very unfriendly to equipment.) Let me know and I will get you info if you are still looking for a molex replacement.


I'm using Anderson Powerpoles per a member's recc. They are a million times better than Molex.


----------



## up2late

Very nice. I had one of those once. Didn't have a chance to do anything with it. Sold it before I could even replace the deck.


----------



## ReloadedSS

Very nice! The H22 is one of my favorite motors, and I think a pretty good match for this generation of Accord.

Ideally, it should reside in a Prelude, but still... 

Keep up the good work, and when you get those amps installed, please update.


----------



## cvjoint

bah, the Accord chassis is just as good  I only weigh 100lbs more yet have a lot more room and retain the double wishbone suspension.

I can't wait to get the amps in either!


----------



## ReloadedSS

cvjoint said:


> bah, the Accord chassis is just as good  I only weigh 100lbs more yet have a lot more room and retain the double wishbone suspension.
> 
> I can't wait to get the amps in either!


Really? I thought the Prelude was also double-wishbone? I think the Prelude handles better, but the Accord coupes are a bit more comfortable (interior room, softer suspension). Either car is rather nice. I think a lot of people don't realize how much nice technology is in Honda cars.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Megalomaniac said:


>


Just don't drop a wrench across those copper busbars!


----------



## cvjoint

ReloadedSS said:


> Really? I thought the Prelude was also double-wishbone? I think the Prelude handles better, but the Accord coupes are a bit more comfortable (interior room, softer suspension). Either car is rather nice. I think a lot of people don't realize how much nice technology is in Honda cars.


That is why I said as good  Well the suspension is a bilstein h&r combo that works splendid. The big trade-off between the two was the H22, but once you do the swap it's merely a choice of 100lbs lighter or more room. 



TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Just don't drop a wrench across those copper busbars!


Luckily nobody did, I have converted back to one optima as seen in the last pics. The juice on those Kinetics was something else...


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

cvjoint said:


>


I'm loving the 3" exhaust work, 2" pipe was the biggest I could fit under my old Sentra without getting in the way of the suspension, lol. Still a noticeable improvement over the stock 1-1/2" pipes! Imports have come a long ways over the last 20 years, lol.



cvjoint said:


> ...heavy use of carbon fiber and lightweight components, seats as well as a lighter car audio setup without a decrease in power or fidelity.


I feel your pain, my suspension sags about an inch ever since I put the latest system in mine. I'm thinking of just putting in a 1" spacer for the springs when I replace the struts, lol. Amp, box, and sub together come close to 150 lbs. I'm a bit too stubborn to find lighter equipment, though, since I'm finally satisfied with the sound I have.

I'm also building in a guy's truck, four 12s in a ported box plus a monster amp, and that system will weigh in at about 220 lbs!  I hear the SI subs are decent for their weight, just my $.02.



cvjoint said:


> Luckily nobody did, I have converted back to one optima as seen in the last pics. The juice on those Kinetics was something else...


Sorry, I didn't see that. How's the optima working for you? How many amps is the whole system pulling?

BTW, Thanks for running such a picture-licious thread!


----------



## BigRed

the exhaust on this ride is sick!!! saw it yesterday


----------



## cvjoint

BigRed said:


> the exhaust on this ride is sick!!! saw it yesterday


Yep, even your diesel would make more power though it 



TJ Mobile Audio said:


> I'm loving the 3" exhaust work, 2" pipe was the biggest I could fit under my old Sentra without getting in the way of the suspension, lol. Still a noticeable improvement over the stock 1-1/2" pipes! Imports have come a long ways over the last 20 years, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pain, my suspension sags about an inch ever since I put the latest system in mine. I'm thinking of just putting in a 1" spacer for the springs when I replace the struts, lol.  Amp, box, and sub together come close to 150 lbs. I'm a bit too stubborn to find lighter equipment, though, since I'm finally satisfied with the sound I have.
> 
> I'm also building in a guy's truck, four 12s in a ported box plus a monster amp, and that system will weigh in at about 220 lbs!  I hear the SI subs are decent for their weight, just my $.02.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see that. How's the optima working for you? How many amps is the whole system pulling?
> 
> BTW, Thanks for running such a picture-licious thread!


Yeah, part of the reason for going 3 inch was to prove that large diameter piping does not hurt performance on a 4 cylinder. There were all these rumors especially about loosing torque at low RPM. On this 2.2 liter I gained about 35hp and 30lb/ft torque and more than 50% of that starting from 2000rpm. There is one catch if you want to call it that, it's one of the best 4 bangers on the market, now cranking about 107hp/liter, that's Enzo category.

Suspension wise it's not bad at all, my way of building a system is to build on heck of a front stage. Up front the 10s in the doors and 6 inch mids in the kicks weight almost as much as the amp rack and subs in the back.

What's more is that all 5 amps and 2 15inch subs are removable for track days, that's 150lbs with box and all worth of the tail in just seconds. Try 17lbs for a 15" sub that's 90+db efficient and features shorting rings. The H&R springs are the race trim, stiffer and less likely to dip under weight. They aren't however adjustable I just got lucky enough for the whole thing to come up nice. 

The Optima is doing great, I do less listening with the battery off than with the kinetics, and while on the go the Irraggi alternator has no problem pumping over 180amps. I rarely draw more than available since all my drivers at least 90db efficient all around.


----------



## ReloadedSS

That's really an awesome build, like I said, H22 is just a great powerplant, and even with a few mods breathed on it, it gets much better.

Did I miss how much of a dent this put in your pocket?


----------



## cvjoint

ReloadedSS said:


> That's really an awesome build, like I said, H22 is just a great powerplant, and even with a few mods breathed on it, it gets much better.
> 
> Did I miss how much of a dent this put in your pocket?


$3000 for engine, polyurethane mounts, and labor
$1000 for ECU, Hondata S300 and dyno tunning
$2000 for intake, header, and all exhaust goodies and labor

To come this summer I will reinforce it:
$3000 race oil pump, kevlar timing and balancer belt, manual tensioner from h23, lightweight PS pulley, new oem crank pulley, new oem water pump, thermostat, Stack pro series oil pressure gauge, PLX wideband sensor, engine out and pressure clean oil passages, Blacktrax intake manifold spacer, labor for all of this


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

cvjoint said:


> Yep, even your diesel would make more power though it
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, part of the reason for going 3 inch was to prove that large diameter piping does not hurt performance on a 4 cylinder. There were all these rumors especially about loosing torque at low RPM. On this 2.2 liter I gained about 35hp and 30lb/ft torque and more than 50% of that starting from 2000rpm. There is one catch if you want to call it that, it's one of the best 4 bangers on the market, now cranking about 107hp/liter, that's Enzo category.
> 
> Suspension wise it's not bad at all, my way of building a system is to build on heck of a front stage. Up front the 10s in the doors and 6 inch mids in the kicks weight almost as much as the amp rack and subs in the back.
> 
> What's more is that all 5 amps and 2 15inch subs are removable for track days, that's 150lbs with box and all worth of the tail in just seconds. Try 17lbs for a 15" sub that's 90+db efficient and features shorting rings. The H&R springs are the race trim, stiffer and less likely to dip under weight. They aren't however adjustable I just got lucky enough for the whole thing to come up nice.
> 
> The Optima is doing great, I do less listening with the battery off than with the kinetics, and while on the go the Irraggi alternator has no problem pumping over 180amps. I rarely draw more than available since all my drivers at least 90db efficient all around.


I think 3" exhaust would hurt my ride unless I turbocharged it, it's a 1.6 L that made 90 HP stock, lol! How much for the alt? I wonder if I could get a bolt-on for my '89 Sentra... I'm currently running a 100 amp alt which is adequate 95% of the time. My 12" sub is only 87 dB efficient (and weighs 22 lbs) and my front stage is 88, so I have to push the amps a little harder I guess. Currently 100 amps from the alt plus a top quality lead-acid battery does the trick, but if I ever upgrade I may look at Iraggi. It's good enough for Steve Meade, right? Except he has like six of them! :laugh:


----------



## cvjoint

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> I think 3" exhaust would hurt my ride unless I turbocharged it, it's a 1.6 L that made 90 HP stock, lol! How much for the alt? I wonder if I could get a bolt-on for my '89 Sentra... I'm currently running a 100 amp alt which is adequate 95% of the time. My 12" sub is only 87 dB efficient (and weighs 22 lbs) and my front stage is 88, so I have to push the amps a little harder I guess. Currently 100 amps from the alt plus a top quality lead-acid battery does the trick, but if I ever upgrade I may look at Iraggi. It's good enough for Steve Meade, right? Except he has like six of them! :laugh:


I got mine for $400. I traded in another company's ****ty HO alt that kept on failing for lifetime warranty. So far so good 2 years in, this one charges at idle and doesn't mind near 8000rpm revving. I got the amputator one for more idle juice, you do have to get a shorter belt since it runs off a smaller pulley ie. it's overdriven.


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## ReloadedSS

cvjoint said:


> $3000 for engine, polyurethane mounts, and labor
> $1000 for ECU, Hondata S300 and dyno tunning
> $2000 for intake, header, and all exhaust goodies and labor
> 
> To come this summer I will reinforce it:
> $3000 race oil pump, kevlar timing and balancer belt, manual tensioner from h23, lightweight PS pulley, new oem crank pulley, new oem water pump, thermostat, Stack pro series oil pressure gauge, PLX wideband sensor, engine out and pressure clean oil passages, Blacktrax intake manifold spacer, labor for all of this


You know, those prices almost seem reasonable enough for me to do a smilar kind of thing...I like the mods you've done, very nice. I hear the kevlar timing & balancing belt helps with longevity, is that right? 

Did you have the work done in SoCal? There's so many shops down there doing swaps.


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## cvjoint

ReloadedSS said:


> You know, those prices almost seem reasonable enough for me to do a smilar kind of thing...I like the mods you've done, very nice. I hear the kevlar timing & balancing belt helps with longevity, is that right?
> 
> Did you have the work done in SoCal? There's so many shops down there doing swaps.


Yeah the kevlar is a bit better, OEM is good too but I plan to take this motor to the limit and I beat it everyday so any better component does help. The Kevlar, manual tensioner, race oil pump and spacer are mostly to prep the engine for some aggressive camshafts, the other stuff is to monitor it fully.


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## providius

very nice,Scan Speak,hmmm.....can't wait to see what's on your mind,good luck with everything


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## cvjoint

providius said:


> very nice,Scan Speak,hmmm.....can't wait to see what's on your mind,good luck with everything


Yep, I got pics coming very soon. Those 15M mids look soooo good.


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## providius

:laugh:my next update in the sistem is going to be or the 12M or the 15M(i was thinking of the 15M to go a litlle more bigger)can't wait to read your impresion of them,cause i got the space for them


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## cvjoint

providius said:


> :laugh:my next update in the sistem is going to be or the 12M or the 15M(i was thinking of the 15M to go a litlle more bigger)can't wait to read your impresion of them,cause i got the space for them


I can't wait either! I had them playing full range in my room and they are breathtaking.

Picks of new gear:
Carbon fiber making it's way on the Accord (Oem VIS CF hood):








The trunk is CF too but I need to clean it up a bit before taking a pic. Total savings: 12lbs trunk + 23lbs hood or about 50% of the OEM weight of these parts. Recaro seats are on order.

15M Scan Speak Revelator dedicated purpose built midranges:








Most notable here is the effort Scan has put in to develop the larges surface area per mouthing area. The basket is only large enough to fit the screws. Big plus in car audio, it makes it easier to mount in the proper location.









Terminals like you would only see in pro audio gear if you are lucky. These little bastards are built to last.









The signature slitted cone to reduce distortion products. Even the dustcap is slitted. 

















The patented variable rib spider:








Note the open basket design.

All this contributes to a effortless 100hz-6000hz driver. With the brick filters I was just able to put together on the carputer that frequency band can indeed be very usable.


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## 1_kLEan_tC

Wow...this alot of amps!


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## thehatedguy

Still rocking the AE subs? Who fixed that speaker for you?

Make sure you keep that CF trim waxed. Mine looked good for about 4 years and started to turn fast.

Whoa, damned nice exhaust work on the car. I'm wanting a WS2 system for my IS300. Nice tone without being dumb loud.


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## cvjoint

1_kLEan_tC said:


> Wow...this alot of amps!


Well going down to 5 this summer, but luckily the output is the same. 



thehatedguy said:


> Still rocking the AE subs? Who fixed that speaker for you?
> 
> Make sure you keep that CF trim waxed. Mine looked good for about 4 years and started to turn fast.
> 
> Whoa, damned nice exhaust work on the car. I'm wanting a WS2 system for my IS300. Nice tone without being dumb loud.


Yep, the AE subs are the only ones that survived, it's just tough to beat. What speaker?

I will be supper thrilled to have it last a year. I'm getting it waxed as soon as I can. I don't expect the clear coat to last more than 6 months, hopefully by then I will recover financially from this built to be able to paint the car along with the CF. I just exchanged the VIS hood for a Seibon today...much much better built quality. The VIS was so flimsy it caved in. Tomorrow come the hoodpins. 

The exhaust is all custom, even the mufflers are a bit different than the regular WS, these are 80mm inlet units. My car was still loud with 2 resonators, cat and the Apexi duals. I had to stick the big oval one in there to get it down to livable levels.


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## thehatedguy

I thought one of those special Scans got hurt in shipping.


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## cvjoint

thehatedguy said:


> I thought one of those special Scans got hurt in shipping.


These aren't the special Scans, these can be bought from Madisound at will. The other scans were phase plug versions, I'm hoping one day I will be able to rebuild that pair and put it to good use.


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## cvjoint

To bring this back on track 

Started tweeter build in the A-pillars, it will house the Scan Speak Illuminators:


















The car got a few mods itself, Eibach sway bar kit with polyurethane bushings and a painted axle back exhaust section to keep the car low key:


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## providius

cvjoint said:


> Yep, I got pics coming very soon. Those 15M mids look soooo good.


some new pictures george?long time no news here


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## cvjoint

providius said:


> some new pictures george?long time no news here


Ha Ha, no, not really. The engine swap is kicking my ass and robbing precious time from the audio side of things. I probably won't finish off the carputer for a while, maybe the end of the summer.


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## cvjoint

This one is a death by CARB. I'll be parting out the car in a day or two, audio equipment and all. I will cover the car as it is before going under dismantling. An S2000 is coming soon, but with 2 seats and 5 cubic feet of storage it's not going to be same. It's been a good 6 years or so! 

If any of the So. Cal. folks are interested in anything let me know. Closer dyma folk get first dibs


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## Megalomaniac

Are you going to get the Hardtop s2k?


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## cvjoint

Well it's So. Cal., I'm going to keep it soft topped. On the one hand it is tiny, on the other, fewer reflections :laugh:


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## ryan s

CARB ftl! It's always kinda painful to see someone leave the 6GA community, even if it is for an S2K :laugh: I don't think there's a better group of people devoted to a 5-year run of one model of car...

I never swarm on potential part outs...but...what's going on with the IB15s?  4 or 8 Ohm?


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## JayinMI

What's CARB, and why do you have to part out your car?

Jay


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## cvjoint

ryan s said:


> CARB ftl! It's always kinda painful to see someone leave the 6GA community, even if it is for an S2K :laugh: I don't think there's a better group of people devoted to a 5-year run of one model of car...
> 
> I never swarm on potential part outs...but...what's going on with the IB15s?  4 or 8 Ohm?


It's funny that I'll still be in the Honda family. I'm not a Honda fan boy per se, they just always make the car I want. 

AE drivers are the 4 ohm car version. I made a thread some time ago comparing to the IdMax. There is no way of using these IB in an S2k is there? I would still sell one haha



JayinMI said:


> What's CARB, and why do you have to part out your car?
> 
> Jay


CARB is the devil: 
Welcome to the California Air Resources Board

...because soon enough...breathing will be illegal.


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## ryan s

cvjoint said:


> It's funny that I'll still be in the Honda family. I'm not a Honda fan boy per se, they just always make the car I want.
> 
> AE drivers are the 4 ohm car version. I made a thread some time ago comparing to the IdMax. There is no way of using these IB in an S2k is there? I would still sell one haha
> 
> 
> 
> CARB is the devil:
> Welcome to the California Air Resources Board
> 
> ...because soon enough...breathing will be illegal.


I agree with you there...I don't find many other cars "check all the boxes" for me. They drive nice (across the board) and are set up 99% right...inside, under the hood, everywhere. My Accord was the first Honda in our family in 2005, now there's 5 Hondas/Acuras among the 4 of us :laugh: Sold off all the Chryslers, Chevys, Hyundais...

I was asking about the AEs since I'm looking for a pair  Well, I'm ultimately going to end up with pair, just maybe not right now unless the price is right...cause I can always drive to Green Bay and pick em up :laugh: I've seen a couple S2k builds but it's a hard car to deal with. Maybe one or two SI BMs?


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## niceguy

That's too bad....could you not pass the smog or what exactly? My little brother has a '93 or '94 Prelude w/the H22, cams, everything and put down about the same. He's not the best driver and ran a 13.7 at 101+ IIRC....
He's about to sell it since he also has an E39 540i 4.4L...little turkey

What kind of subs will fit in the S2k? How about a pair of TB 6.5s?


Jeremy


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## PhatBass

Dang engine swap FTL! I wanted to swap on in my 98 Accord but I really dont want to commit to the kick in the nads that will fallow. 

Let me know whats up with your part out, I can help ya out.
I might need a few items, May i bother you for some details on your suspension.


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## 3fish

cvjoint said:


> Well it's So. Cal., I'm going to keep it soft topped. On the one hand it is tiny, on the other, fewer reflections :laugh:


I'll be looking forward, as soon as the bug bites , to your stealthy audio install and blower kit and carbon hood and tien coil overs, and custom exhaust. I've been living vicariously in your thread so long I'm building your car for you .


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## chad

cvjoint said:


> CARB is the devil:
> Welcome to the California Air Resources Board
> 
> ...because soon enough...breathing will be illegal.


LOL that is so full of win.


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## cvjoint

Three things going on. I got my masters in Economics and now continuing for the Ph.D. I need TIME to research, cannot cope with my build: carputer, swap etc, I need something less demanding on my time. Second I'm out of money, see above. Third I can't pass smog, every contact got busted, got denied way to many times driving in a smog shop. I'm also getting older I suppose and less risk averse getting pulled over and towed. 

And then they make an 1/2 F1 vehicle that's street legal: Honda S2000. 

I'm working on making a for sale thread here on DIYMA for the audio stuff. Diyma gets exclusivity for 3 days after which I will use all I have at my disposal to sell it. The mechanical parts will be posted on 6thgenaccord. come, a link will be given here. They too will get exclusivity for 2 days or so. 

I'm only keeping my radar detector and maybe carputer if I don't get a few bucks on it. 

If you got questions about parts or anything let it out he he.


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## cvjoint

As far as building the S2k, as time and finances allow I will build it as much as I can while keeping it CARB legal. Unlike an Accord they make a Greddy CARB legal turbo kit. Since that's the best kit out there that's legal the output will be fixed at 340hp or so. CARB doesn't bind me in other respects so you should expect lots of mods everywhere else. The audio build will have to be 100lbs or less and 75% removable. I already have a few unique ideas for that car.


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## cvjoint

It has begun: 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/78167-fs-all-i-have-scan-speak-seas-ae-carputer-alternator-clarion-monster-cable.html


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## saxophonedoug

cvjoint said:


> To bring this back on track
> 
> Started tweeter build in the A-pillars, it will house the Scan Speak Illuminators:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The car got a few mods itself, Eibach sway bar kit with polyurethane bushings and a painted axle back exhaust section to keep the car low key:


Hey there CVJoint,

How do you plan to attach the PVC pipe to the A-pillars? Or the speaker to the PVC, for that matter: I assume you can't drill the screws into the PVC edge, nor would you probably want to glue an Illuminator in there, right?

Since I'm venturing into my own first DIY panel mods, I figured I might as well put a few other Q's out there: how did you get your new door panels to attach back to the door? This seems like one of the trickiest parts of making new doors, I don't know how you'd make sure to get the plug protrusions back in exactly the right places.

I drive a Honda 2000 EX coupe, btw, and will be using a 2-way system up front with Illuminator tweets and Dayton 7" mids. I'd like to put the mids in the factory location, but without cutting open the door it's just too shallow before the glass (and I even have the non-shielded, skinnier version of the Dayton). Hence a new door. I figure this will also let me angle the mids more into the car (like kicks often do) but without losing any width.

For the Illuminator, I was planning on sticking them in the side mirror panels, and making custom ones of those. Just curious, why have you chosen the A-pillar (or should I)? From what I've read (I'm a novice though), wouldn't the side panels would give you slightly more image width and also time the sonic distance more accurately with your mids?

Thanks, your work looks fantastic and has helped me out a lot. Cheers,

Doug


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## cvjoint

saxophonedoug said:


> Hey there CVJoint,
> 
> How do you plan to attach the PVC pipe to the A-pillars? Or the speaker to the PVC, for that matter: I assume you can't drill the screws into the PVC edge, nor would you probably want to glue an Illuminator in there, right?
> 
> Since I'm venturing into my own first DIY panel mods, I figured I might as well put a few other Q's out there: how did you get your new door panels to attach back to the door? This seems like one of the trickiest parts of making new doors, I don't know how you'd make sure to get the plug protrusions back in exactly the right places.
> 
> I drive a Honda 2000 EX coupe, btw, and will be using a 2-way system up front with Illuminator tweets and Dayton 7" mids. I'd like to put the mids in the factory location, but without cutting open the door it's just too shallow before the glass (and I even have the non-shielded, skinnier version of the Dayton). Hence a new door. I figure this will also let me angle the mids more into the car (like kicks often do) but without losing any width.
> 
> For the Illuminator, I was planning on sticking them in the side mirror panels, and making custom ones of those. Just curious, why have you chosen the A-pillar (or should I)? From what I've read (I'm a novice though), wouldn't the side panels would give you slightly more image width and also time the sonic distance more accurately with your mids?
> 
> Thanks, your work looks fantastic and has helped me out a lot. Cheers,
> 
> Doug


I used a mix to make plastic so I can connect those bent necks to the pillar. It was a ***** and ultimately they did crack in the sun sigh. I tried to mount the tweeters and you're right the screws didn't hold on too well in that edge. I wasn't too successful on this project. 

I used a tool to insert threaded nuts in the doors. The doors hand on the top part but are also held against the door with 5-6 machine screws. 

Yeah, stock door location is crap. The only speaker I would put in there is the 18 sound mid, if that even fits. U need to fab to get good sound. 

There are lots of tradeoffs with tweeters imo. Pick the ones you like most. I for one cannot use tweeters in the kicks, the coherent image is not worth the risk of blocking the entire tweeter with your legs. Sail panel is decent, but ultimately dash mount or lower a pillar will give you more path lenght. That one is good so that the tweeter doesn't radiate too close to your ear, it makes the left tweeter way too hot imo.


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## cvjoint

Got some PM's since the last time I posted something here. Most of the interest is in the way the IB baffle works so I'm updating with some other pictures as well. 

Infinite baffle in a car is basically using your car trunk as a box. To do this properly you need to seal off the front wave of the speaker from the back one. The subwoofer baffle does this, plus has to hold the subs and be vibration free. So while Dynamat may seal off the front wave from the rear well it can't hold a subwoofer. I use MDF + roof brackets from Home Depot + expanding foam in this car to build the baffle. 

I meant for my IB baffle to be removable and hold amplifiers so mine is a bit more complicated than it has to be. 

Step 1. Get rid of body parts to get a clear view of what there is between trunk and interior?










Step 2. Find all the air gaps between trunk and interior. 










This car has many openings. The middle is a bit irregular but it's close to being rectangular. The 6x9 speaker holes. The slots above the wheel wells on the sides. 

Step 3 Fill up all the air gaps sans the one your subwoofer will breathe through.

Run whatever wires you need through (in my case it was an A/C cooling pipe) and seal the holes with some expanding foam. 










Then dynamat for noise rejection:










The 6x9 holes were covered as well with mdf and then dynamat. 

Step 4 Mount the baffle to the car frame.
In my case I decided to change the car opening to a rectangle and the manufacture some way to bolt the removable baffle.

Flattened the sidewalls and provided metal inserts for the bolts in the MDF. The mdf itself is bolted to the support towers with screws. 










Fill the gaps with expanding foam:









Now the only opening to the trunk is a rectangle shape with some bolt holes. 

After carpet:










Step 5 Make the baffle.

Mine is an amp rack too and it is removable:










It ended up pressure fitting is all there was needed to have it stick to the chassis. I never had to use the bolt rivets I made in the MDF and top of the car.


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## winegamd

subbed


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## cvjoint




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## [email protected]

Daaaaaaaaaaaam! This is slick! I may try something like this in my 2001 4 door Accord EX! 

Noob question though, typically how much is MDF and expanding foam? Also, how long did it take you to complete that IB project above?


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## cvjoint

I think you will find that MDF and expanding foam costs are only a small fraction of what this will cost! Hope you have the tools at least. 

You can knock it out in 30 hours if you know what you are doing. I highly recommend metal plates for reinforcement at all four corners. The foam by itself failed.


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