# SQ Competitors that still use horns?



## Ted J (Aug 15, 2006)

Is there any SQ Competitors using horns still in SQ Comps? I ask for at the IASCA/MECA Finals it seems that most are using A Pillar/Dash pods and that seems to be doing very well in competition.

I remember about a decade ago there was a hand full of people using them but don't know if anybody still is and was just curious how they are doing compared to the newer setups.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

There are many competitors including Subterfuse a forum member here competes with a pair of the full size horns and wins at any level. There arent more using them because I am not out there supporting and promoting them in a way that would encourage more t particiipate.

The best sounding cars are always going to be those that have the best installation, meaning speaker position ,and install set up, and rely less upon signal processing to create a sound stage and images. It is always better to improve path length differences etc. even for a single seat car becuase the end resultwill have more depth to the sound stage with images being layered depth wise within the sound stage, more correctimage size relative to the size of the sound stage etc etc. so horns or not I still think the best sounding cars are those that execute a proper installation.

While pillars cant ever have a low sound stage, for a 2 channel stereo system they are very poor choice from most other technical aspects of what I believe are proper system design. And to add to that I have never heard a pro-logic or other type system with a center channel sound as good and lifelike as the better 2 channel systems I have listened too.

Once a system is imaging and staing correctly we no longer localize to the source of the sound and hear the sound stage at eye level.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well, he did use horns...in his sig he has a new setup with some 3s probably up high and some Dyn midbasses.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Eric Stevens said:


> There are many competitors including Subterfuse a forum member here competes with a pair of the full size horns and wins at any level. There arent more using them because I am not out there supporting and promoting them in a way that would encourage more t particiipate.
> 
> The best sounding cars are always going to be those that have the best installation, meaning speaker position ,and install set up, and rely less upon signal processing to create a sound stage and images. It is always better to improve path length differences etc. even for a single seat car becuase the end resultwill have more depth to the sound stage with images being layered depth wise within the sound stage, more correctimage size relative to the size of the sound stage etc etc. so horns or not I still think the best sounding cars are those that execute a proper installation.
> 
> ...


I'm working on a 'waveguide on the dash' setup for the current car. One thing I'm a bit nervous about is the fact that you can SEE the speakers. I think this has a huge effect; if you know where the speakers are, your brain won't let you ignore that and it affects the imaging I think.

I rented a BMW 3 Series a few weeks back and I can see why Mic Wallace had such good results. The seats are so low, even if the horns are under the dash, your head is easily 6" closer to the floor then in a typical sedan.

But I'm driving a CUV, and with such a high roof and upright seating position, it makes it really difficult to come up with an underdash solution that will work in that particular vehicle.

I'm eager to get it finished because I'd really like to see if my theories pan out in the real world.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Eric Stevens said:


> There are many competitors including Subterfuse a forum member here competes with a pair of the full size horns and wins at any level. There arent more using them because I am not out there supporting and promoting them in a way that would encourage more t particiipate.
> 
> The best sounding cars are always going to be those that have the best installation, meaning speaker position ,and install set up, and rely less upon signal processing to create a sound stage and images. It is always better to improve path length differences etc. even for a single seat car becuase the end resultwill have more depth to the sound stage with images being layered depth wise within the sound stage, more correctimage size relative to the size of the sound stage etc etc. so horns or not I still think the best sounding cars are those that execute a proper installation.
> 
> ...




AHEM...did you forget someone???

...you know..like the ONLY guy for a couple years to actively compete with horns:bowdown::thumbsup:


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Mic10is said:


> AHEM...did you forget someone???
> 
> ...you know..like the ONLY guy for a couple years to actively compete with horns:bowdown::thumbsup:


Oh and Mic Wallace :biggrinflip:


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## Ted J (Aug 15, 2006)

Eric Stevens said:


> Oh and Mic Wallace :biggrinflip:


Who's that? :laugh: j/k


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Patrick Bateman said:


> I'm working on a 'waveguide on the dash' setup for the current car. One thing I'm a bit nervous about is the fact that you can SEE the speakers. I think this has a huge effect; if you know where the speakers are, your brain won't let you ignore that and it affects the imaging I think.
> 
> I rented a BMW 3 Series a few weeks back and I can see why Mic Wallace had such good results. The seats are so low, even if the horns are under the dash, your head is easily 6" closer to the floor then in a typical sedan.
> 
> ...



Suv can be a pita for horns, I'm actually moving my horns back down underneath now that there crossed at 4K , and I'm probably going to do the pr170mo in the kicks. I can get the pillars to sound fantastic , but only with about a foot of precptuial depth.  

Idk maybe a diffrent car someday, but for now I miss having the über wide stage that has tons of depth.


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## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

Eric Stevens said:


> There arent more using them because I am not out there supporting and promoting them in a way that would encourage more t particiipate.


I hope we get some more support next year cause I'm hitting as many shows as possible!


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

oabeieo said:


> Suv can be a pita for horns, I'm actually moving my horns back down underneath now that there crossed at 4K , and I'm probably going to do the pr170mo in the kicks. I can get the pillars to sound fantastic , but only with about a foot of precptuial depth.
> 
> Idk maybe a diffrent car someday, but for now I miss having the über wide stage that has tons of depth.


I think that reflections off the sides of the vehicle can both ADD and SUBTRACT from the width of the soundstage.

So it's a tricky one; horns tend to reduce those reflections, and that can narrow the stage. But at the same time, those same reflections can color the soundstage on a good recording.

It's one of those things I've battled with, I think one of the best examples of this conundrum was a thread on diyaudio where a group of engineers compared the Linkwitz speaker, a waveguide speaker, and a clone of a Bose speaker. The Bose clone won. And I think a lot of that was due to the intentional reflections created by the Bose type of speaker.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

lsm said:


> I hope we get some more support next year cause I'm hitting as many shows as possible!


If I can ever get time to finish my install I might go to a local one too. I wouldn't dare show up with horns on the dash. That's just me screwing around. 

I actually am thinking a glove box removal and rebuild and a driver side lower knee bolster rebuild to get horns just a couple inches higher with minis , I just need clear that console and I think I'll be golden.


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